# Mumbai Attacks



## BanglaBhoot

Al Qaeda theory: Mumbai intellectuals blame MOSSAD, CIA

KASHMIRWATCH.COM  June 13, 2007

Srinagar, June 12: Mumbai based group of intellectuals and human rights activists have criticized the media reports of an 'Al-Qaeda Hind' based in Kashmir. The group believes that the Al-Qaeda announcement was a planted story and a part of the disinformation campaign by the Indian government, so as to justify the unholy alliance between the ruling elites of India with the Zionist Apartheid Nazi Israeli state. 

In a statement the spokesman of the front said that this report (presence of Al-Qaeda in Kashmir ) comes only a day after newspapers boldly announced a high powered delegation of Israeli Military Generals and Intelligence Officers, who are in the country to advice the Indian government on combating "terror" in Jammu and Kashmir. 

The Mumbai based group alleged that Al-Qaeda is a front organization of CIA and MOSSAD. "There is enough evidence that the Al-Qaeda is a front organization of the CIA and MOSSAD. The Bush junta has used the bogey of terror and of Al Qaeda to justify his unending and ever expanding Global War on Terror, which is only a means of capturing the resources of the world and of establishing the sole hegemony of Israel in West Asia," said the group of activists and intellectuals. 

The group is holding a press conference in Mumbai on Wednesday to "expose the links between Al-Qaeda and the CIA-MOSSAD". 

Holding American-Israeli operation accomplices of the 9/11 attack on the WTC, the spokesman of the group said that this has been widely written about in USA and Europe itself and more than 50% of the American people and far more Europeans, now believe and are convinced about this fact. 

He said that sections of the Indian ruling political and military elite are importing the same Bush-Olmert formula into India. "The increasing terror attacks only serve the cause of the Indian elite and divide the masses along communal lines. It is only the ordinary Indians who are the victims of terror either in temples, mosques, buses or trains," he said adding that practically no political leader suffers a similar fate, where the terrorists are apprehended and killed in "encounters". 

"Every terror attack is meant to push and drag the Indian masses further into the waiting arms of Uncle Sam and the Israeli Goliath. Every terror attack spreads further hatred for Muslims and Islam and weakens the Indian Muslim community," he said.

[Kashmir Times]

http://www.kashmirwatch.com/showhea...chive=&start_from=&ucat=1&var0news=value0news


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## Bull

MBI Munshi said:


> so as to justify the unholy alliance between the ruling elites of India with the Zionist Apartheid Nazi Israeli state.



A very balanced article, i must say.


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## joey

ROTFLMAO which group oh puhlease why isnt it mentioned there the NAME OF THE GROUP? uh oh fits the bill? yes for the conspiracy theory believers onlee    

India acts as per its nations interest, not for communists interest or others, because it is against the constitution of India.


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## Bull

MBI Munshi said:


> It is only the ordinary Indians who are the victims of terror either in temples, mosques, buses or trains," he said adding that practically no political leader suffers a similar fate, where the terrorists are apprehended and killed in "encounters".



Mahatma Gandhi...Indira Gandhi..Rajiv Gandhi....Beant Singh were killed by terrorists.


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## BanglaBhoot

Why do these Indians go ballistic when something on Kashmir comes up. I thought it was an interesting article worth sharing. Remember that these are Bombay intellectuals. I was hoping fro some elucidation on who these people are. Instead I get a barrage of nonsense.


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## Bull

MBI Munshi said:


> Why do these Indians go ballistic when something on Kashmir comes up. I thought it was an interesting article worth sharing. Remember that these *are Bombay intellectuals*. I was hoping fro some elucidation on who these people are. Instead I get a barrage of nonsense.



lol.......


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## Ababeel

Bull said:


> A very balanced article, i must say.



It will not be in good taste for a sanghi.


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## Ababeel

The bureacracy in India is in tight grip of RSS minded people who have love for Israel as well as US anti muslim and anti Islam policies. So they can go to any extent to strength it. There common cause is to slave muslims. RSS don't like the existance of muslim in India and they are following the Spanish formula to eliminate muslims completely from India.The Sangh and security agencies are carrying out the bombings in diffent parts and blaming it on muslims specially on people related to Islamic organisations so as to get the chance to eliminate them.
On the other hand they are even blaming muslims for bombings in masjids in various parts of India. People belonging to Bajrang Dal etc have been captured will explosive factories and theft of military explosives from ammunition dumps near Nashik, Maharashtra state where the train bombing in Mumbai and many masjids in Beed, Parbhani, Malegaon etc. have been targetted, but no steps are being taken to break there network.
Even the killings of Pakistanis in Samjhota Express is linked to the muslims. Its really worrysome for the muslim of India and the sub continent. We can see the time looks very near when muslims in India will be targeted in different ways, whether it is mass killings like Gujarat, Cultural onslaught or economic destruction etc.


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## Bull

kbagdadi said:


> It will not be in good taste for a sanghi.



lol......very true......


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## Bull

kbagdadi said:


> The bureacracy in India is in tight grip of RSS minded people who have love for Israel as well as US anti muslim and anti Islam policies. So they can go to any extent to strength it. There common cause is to slave muslims. RSS don't like the existance of muslim in India and they are following the Spanish formula to eliminate muslims completely from India.The Sangh and security agencies are carrying out the bombings in diffent parts and blaming it on muslims specially on people related to Islamic organisations so as to get the chance to eliminate them.
> On the other hand they are even blaming muslims for bombings in masjids in various parts of India. People belonging to Bajrang Dal etc have been captured will explosive factories and theft of military explosives from ammunition dumps near Nashik, Maharashtra state where the train bombing in Mumbai and many masjids in Beed, Parbhani, Malegaon etc. have been targetted, but no steps are being taken to break there network.
> Even the killings of Pakistanis in Samjhota Express is linked to the muslims. Its really worrysome for the muslim of India and the sub continent. We can see the time looks very near when muslims in India will be targeted in different ways, whether it is mass killings like Gujarat, Cultural onslaught or economic destruction etc.



Poor Muslims...they are targeted everywhere..in Iraq, Afghanistan, Spain cheesy: ),India.........


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## Always Neutral

MBI Munshi said:


> Why do these Indians go ballistic when something on Kashmir comes up. I thought it was an interesting article worth sharing. Remember that these are Bombay intellectuals. I was hoping fro some elucidation on who these people are. Instead I get a barrage of nonsense.




Dear Munshi,

They are going ballastic because throught the article no names of the organisation, intellectuals or the spokesperson is mentioned. Also Kashmir Times writing something happening in Bombay oops sorry Mumbai seems far fetched.

My observations thats all.

Regards


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## Always Neutral

kbagdadi said:


> The bureacracy in India is in tight grip of RSS minded people who have love for Israel as well as US anti muslim and anti Islam policies. So they can go to any extent to strength it. There common cause is to slave muslims. RSS don't like the existance of muslim in India and they are following the Spanish formula to eliminate muslims completely from India.The Sangh and security agencies are carrying out the bombings in diffent parts and blaming it on muslims specially on people related to Islamic organisations so as to get the chance to eliminate them.
> On the other hand they are even blaming muslims for bombings in masjids in various parts of India. People belonging to Bajrang Dal etc have been captured will explosive factories and theft of military explosives from ammunition dumps near Nashik, Maharashtra state where the train bombing in Mumbai and many masjids in Beed, Parbhani, Malegaon etc. have been targetted, but no steps are being taken to break there network.
> Even the killings of Pakistanis in Samjhota Express is linked to the muslims. Its really worrysome for the muslim of India and the sub continent. We can see the time looks very near when muslims in India will be targeted in different ways, whether it is mass killings like Gujarat, Cultural onslaught or economic destruction etc.



Is this a post or a propaganda leaflet. The majority of muslims love Europe and I promise if you go to Spain or UK you will see the best Doctors come from Pakistan, India, Philipines, Bangladesh and Srilanka. Many of them are muslims. None of them till date have told me that they came here because they were being prosecuted but they just wanted the challenge and opportunity to practise at a global level. The bottom line is that there is no conspiracy to eliminate muslims in Spain or that matter of fact in Europe and I doubt India too as its got more muslims in world other than Indoneasia if I am not wrong.

Some muslims have definately got the wrong end of the stick in India (discrimination wise) but please name me any country of the world including developed economies like USA where a minority community has not been discriminated ? Red Indians in USA ?

Regards


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## Adux

There is a news article in the Indian Express about How "Stupid Internet Publications are"
It was hillarious, but i am happy to see atleast one of 'em here..I can see stupidity first hand.


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## con

I really wonder about the "level" of intellectual brilliance displayed by our dear Munshiji.
He gives out sermons to others about been "blinded by propaganda" and himself posts childish reports as the reality.

No matter how much there is talk of "different view" dished out by our dear Munshiji,at the end of it, everything is concluded with the same old "Hindu-Zionist-Christians" conspiracy angle. 

It is really getting boring to debate on these subjects. 

I have a kind suggestion for the mods. Please create a different section specially meant for "The Indian conspiracy" "Exposing Hindu-Zionist-Christian plans for prosecution of Muslims" etc etc ,where intellectuals like Mr.Munshi can post the reality.

Sorry to say,this is suppose to be a defence forum,however everything topic has been ending with a religious angle.. 

Can the mods please suggest the members to keep religion out of any military topics.
A humble request from me.


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## Keysersoze

Gentlemen if you disagree with a topic and feel that it is a waste of time debating it, I suggest you do not keep it alive by posting in it. Let it "die on the vine". Keeping it alive with pointless sarcastic one liners won't help the cause either.


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## Always Neutral

Keysersoze said:


> Gentlemen if you disagree with a topic and feel that it is a waste of time debating it, I suggest you do not keep it alive by posting in it. Let it "die on the vine". Keeping it alive with pointless sarcastic one liners won't help the cause either.




Dear K,

Agreed. 

Regards


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## BanglaBhoot

Keysersoze said:


> Keeping it alive with pointless sarcastic one liners won't help the cause either.



Whose or what cause are you referring to? It seems their only cause is to prevent debate and keep India above criticism that is why they waste time drowning the issue in a nonsense discussion or one liners as you put it. Is that the cause we are to support? Would it not be easier to delete the one liners so that the genuine reader may peruse the actual information or opinion that is the subject of the thread.


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## Keysersoze

MBI Munshi said:


> Whose or what cause are you referring to? It seems their only cause is to prevent debate and keep India above criticism that is why they waste time drowning the issue in a nonsense discussion or one liners as you put it. Is that the cause we are to support? Would it not be easier to delete the one liners so that the genuine reader may peruse the actual information or opinion that is the subject of the thread.



I was responding to the request for deletion of threads by another member. Likewise if you feel you have a valid point then carry on discussing it. I am sure others would join in the debate if it has validity.


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## smeaglegolum

*Petrol pump blown up, RAF may storm hotels*

CNN-IBN


FLASHPOINT: An injured man is seen being escorted by policemen at the Taj Hotel.
Colaba: Petrol pump blown up
10 killed in Colaba attack
Gun battle outside Metro cinema hall
Hotel Oberoi, Hotel Taj under siege
RAF considering commando action, may storm hotels
Local trains suspended
Gunfire and grenades, the latest modus operandi of terrorists
Roads in Mumbai completely deserted
Terrorists still holed up at Nariman House
Crowded areas and buildings one behind another, difficult situation for rescue

Mumbai: At least four people are reported to have been killed and 15 are injured as unidentified groups of gunmen opened fire in at least four places across south Mumbai on Wednesday night.

Mumbai police confirm it is a terrorist attack. The five-star Hotel Oberoi is under siege and gunmen are reported to have held the occupants hostage.
Reports say 10 gunmen are holed up inside Hotel Oberoi.

Firing and gunshots are also reported from CST Railway Terminus, the popular Café Leopold restaurant and Cama Hospital - all in south Mumbai.
Hotels under siege

The first incident took place at between 2215 hrs IST and 2230 hrs IST when bullets, apparently from automatic weapons, were fired at police and paramilitary forces outside the Taj Hotel in south Mumbai.

The next, near simultaneous shooting took place near the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus police station in which six people were injured.
Police have cordoned off the CST Railway Terminus, a crowded place at this time of the evening, and have stopped entry.

Press Trust of India reports two persons armed with automatic weapons and hand grenades are holed up inside the CST station.
PTI also reports three people, employees of Taj Hotel in South Mumbai, were killed after being fired upon by terrorists and an equal number of people died in a bomb blast in a taxi at Dockyard Road.
The lobby of Hotel Oberoi is reportedly on fire.

*At CST*

Unidentified persons opened fire near Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, headquarters of the Central Railway, which is a world heritage building and remains crowded almost throughout the day.

Local train services to and from CST have been suspended. A police official said he saw two people, armed with automatic weapons at CST.

"They opened indiscriminate fire and fled inside. They are reported to be holed up between platform seven and eight," he said.
Two more blasts have been reported from Majhgaon and BPT Colony.


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## smeaglegolum

*Terror attacks in Mumbai; 16 dead, several injured*

27 Nov 2008, 0000 hrs IST, TIMES NEWS NETWORK & AGENCIES


MUMBAI: Terrorists struck at India's financial capital late Wednesday night as at least seven near-simultaneous firings and explosions rocked areas in the vicinity of posh hotels in South Mumbai, leaving ten persons dead and several injured. ( Watch ) 

Armed with AK-47 rifles and grenades, a couple of terrorists entered the passenger hall of crowded Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminal (CST) railway station and opened fire. 

Ten people were killed in firing at Mumbai Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST) station, police said. Over 30 people were injured in firing at CST, a senior police official said. 

Director General of Police A N Roy said at least two terrorists were holed up inside the Oberoi Hotel where firing was on. 

Three people, employees of Taj Hotel in South Mumbai, were killed after being fired upon by terrorists and an equal number of people died in a bomb blast in a taxi at Dockyard Road. 

There were reports of firing around several landmark buildings in the Colaba-Nariman Point area, including the Taj hotel, Oberoi and other tourist attractions and pubs like Leopold's. The top floor of Oberoi was said to be on fire amid reports of blasts in the area and blood-smeared bodies were being brought out of the Taj lobby. 

Firing and blasts were also reported from Mazgaon, the Metro Junction, Crawford Market and Colaba. There were reports of a blast in a taxi on the Western Express Highway, near Vile Parle, but there was no confirmation. 

The firing and bombing apparently started close to the Gateway of India. The gunbattle then moved on towards CST and raged on for over 45 minutes from 10 pm, sending commuters running out of the station. 

The assailants also fired into the crowd at CST and people on the trains and then ran out of the station themselves and into neighbouring buildings, including Cama Hospital, after being challenged by cops. 

SRPF personnel then entered the iconic BMC building -- just opposite CST -- to take aim at the assailants, BMC commissioner Jairaj Phatak said. "We fear some of the assailants are still inside the station and we want to catch them if they come out," a police official said. 

Vikhroli police station senior inspector Habib Ansari was on his way to work from his Colaba home when he saw two armed men, with sophisticated weaponry, trying to run into bylanes near the Gateway of India. 

"I rushed back to Colaba and all policemen, including GRP and RPF personnel, were called up," he added. 

Bhisham Mansukhani, a journalist, was attending a wedding reception at the Taj's Crystal Room. "I was inside the bar when glass shards almost hit my eye," he said. "More than 200 people were escorted inside Chambers, a business centre inside the hotel," he added.


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## smeaglegolum

Coward bastar_ds.


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## Chanakya.10

Just kill those *************..


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## Nihat

Chanakya.10 said:


> Just kill those *************..



Nop , don't kill them - Catch them alive.

Just like Delhi police caught that Saif Mohammed guy from Batla house , I bet that everyday he lives a life of torture and wishes he were dead , thats the life these bast@rds deserves.


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## Imran Khan

*Mumbai rocked by deadly shootings *
Scene outside a luxury hotel in Mumbai

Gunmen have opened fire at a number of sites in the Indian city of Mumbai (Bombay), killing at least 10 people and injuring others, local reports say. 

Police said the shootings appeared to be terrorist attacks. 

Gunmen opened fire in at least seven sites, including a train station and a restaurant popular with tourists. 

Shootings were also reported near two five star hotels and at a hospital. At least two blasts, suspected to be grenade attacks, were reported. 

Police said the gunmen had fired indiscriminately. 

"The terrorists have used automatic weapons and in some places grenades have been lobbed," said AN Roy, police commissioner of Maharashtra state. 

Some gunmen were still holed up in buildings that had been targeted, police said. 

Sajjad Karim, an MEP for the North West of England who is in Mumbai, told the BBC he had seen a gunman opening fire in the lobby of Taj Mahal hotel. 

He said he had seen people fall before fleeing to a restaurant, where the doors had been barricaded. 

"All I saw was one man on foot carrying a machine gun type of weapon - which I then saw him firing from and I saw people hitting the floor, people right next to me," he said. 

The other hotel targeted was the Oberoi.


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## Imran Khan

*25 Wounded During Mumbai Terror Attack *Wednesday, November 26, 2008






Nov. 26: A man injured in a gun battle is carried to a hospital in Mumbai, India.
MUMBAI, India &#8212; DEVELOPING: Gunmen targeted luxury hotels, a popular tourist attraction and a crowded train station in at least seven attacks in India's financial capital Thursday, wounding 25 people, police and witnesses said.

It was not clear how many of those were dead or injured, but Indian television stations are reproting at least 20 dead, while Reuters puts the number at 10.

A.N Roy police commissioner of Maharashtra state, of which Mumbai is the capital, said several people had been wounded in the attacks and police were battling the gunmen.

"The terrorists have used automatic weapons and in some places grenades have been lobbed," said Roy.

Some of the gunmen are still holed up in buildings, a police official told Reuters.

Two eyewitnesses told Sky News through mobile devises the gunmen were going after westerners.

"We were asked if there were any British or Americans," they said.

Gunmen opened fire on two of the city's best known Luxury hotels, the Taj Mahal and the Oberoi. They also attacked the crowded Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus station in southern Mumbai and Leopold's restaurant, a Mumbai landmark.

It was not immediately clear what the motive was for the attacks.

"It was really scary. It was like the sound of loud crackers, not one but several, we just ran out of there," said Janice Sequeira, a tourist who had been at a restaurant in the Taj Mahal Hotel.

At the Oberoi, police officer P.I. Patil said shots had been fired inside and the hotel had been cordoned off. He would not give any other details.

The Press Trust of India news agency quoted Mumbai General Railway Police Commissioner A.K. Sharma as saying that several men armed with rifles and grenades were holed up in the train station.

Leopold's restaurant was riddled with bullet holes and there were blood stains on the floor and shoes left by fleeing customers, according to an Associated Press reporter at the scene.

At least 25 people had been brought to the G.T. Hospital near the shootings, said hospital official Yogesh Pandey.

The Associated Press, Reuters and Sky News contributed to this report.


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## Imran Khan

Gunmen attack targets in Indian cityStory Highlights
Gunmen strike at series of targets popular with tourists and business people 

Eighteen reported killed, several more injured 

Ongoing gunbattles reported at two hotels 

Next Article in World &#187;




(CNN) -- At least 18 people were killed in a series of coordinated attacks targeting sites popular with tourists and business people, according to police and CNN's sister network in India.





An injured man is carried to a hospital in Mumbai.

Ongoing battles between police and gunmen were reported at two five-star hotels by CNN-IBN.

Gunmen, some also armed with grenades, attacked targets including the hotels, a cafe, and a train station, police say.

At least 18 people were reportedly killed in coordinated strikes, according to IBN.

The TV station reports at least one ongoing gun battle at the five-star Oberoi Hotel where gunmen have reportedly taken hostages.

At another top hotel, the Taj, IBN reported more gunfire and chaos.

The targets include businesses frequented by international visitors.

CNN correspondent Andrew Stevens said: "We are getting reports of ongoing incidents at the railway station and the Oberoi Hotel."

A local journalist told CNN he had seen evidence of an attack at the city's domestic airport, which is on the outskirts of the Mumbai.

IBN reported explosions at a gas station and inside a taxi on a dockside road. 

Attacks were reported at the Taj and Oberoi hotels, the popular Caf&#233; Leopold, and Cama Hospital, and the


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## Chanakya.10

Oh Sh** man!!!!

What do these cowards want to prove??????

Hang them by their by the balls......................................

Reactions: Like Like:
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## tyagi

# Terrorists still holed up at three places, including Oberoi and Taj hotels; encounter in progress, says DGP A N Roy

# Colaba: BP Petrol Pump blown up

# 10 killed in Colaba attack

# Taxi blown up in Vile Parle

# Gun battle outside Metro cinema hall

# Hotel Oberoi, Hotel Taj under siege

# RAF considering commando action, may storm hotels

# Mumbai police say air surveillance ready

# Local trains suspended


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## Imran Khan

already posted sir


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## smeaglegolum

*Update:*

Terror attacks in Mumbai; 80 dead, over 250 injured


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## HK-47

sigh it's never ending isn't it?and during the elections too..well well.
yes I can already see the accusations appear.ISI using Bangladeshi agents *rolls eyes*


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## smeaglegolum

HK-47 said:


> sigh it's never ending isn't it?and during the elections too..well well.
> yes I can already see the accusations appear.ISI using Bangladeshi agents *rolls eyes*



Please keep away politics at least at this point of time. When the basta@rds are captured you will know who they are.


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## smeaglegolum

*Update:*

TV reports stating 200 commandos en route to Mumbai from Delhi. Terrorists holed up in room no. 631 in Taj.


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## Imran Khan

please wait and see no blame game on ISI.before incedent you guys know whats behaind this?


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## Chanakya.10

imran khan said:


> please wait and see no blame game on ISI.before incedent you guys know whats behaind this?



Dirty ideology and brainwashing........


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## Flintlock

The **** has hit the fan.


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## Imran Khan

Police stand guard after shooting took place inside a railway station in Mumbai November 26, 2008






Injured people in the terror attack at Oberoi Hotel in Mumbai being carried away by police personnel to hospital.






Terror attacks in Mumbai, fresh blasts at Taj and Trident hotel. 






Mumbai police stand guard after shootings took place inside a railway station in Mumbai, November 26, 2008






Mumbai police stand guard after shootings took place inside a railway station in Mumbai, November 26, 2008


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## newlife

> please wait and see no blame game on ISI




Definitely not sir...
Whole world knows it...
ISI is the purest and most anti terrorist organization of pakistan...


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## tyagi

imran khan said:


> please wait and see no blame game on ISI.before incedent you guys know whats behaind this?



hostage have been taken at many places .we will no from were these m##### f****** r from.


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## HK-47

> Dirty ideology and brainwashing........


yes I concur.I am just worried if they are Muslims will they be labeled as BD agents of ISI.anyways forget it.
this attack seems to be much larger(if not in casualties) and heck a lot daring than the previous ones.


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## Chanakya.10

There are reports that tese mosquitoes have been holed up in a room in TAJ..... Well now let the commondos play their game...................

bloody ******* ******* **** ********* **** ******


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## Imran Khan

*Terror attacks in Mumbai; 80 dead, over 250 injured* 


MUMBAI: Terror struck the country's financial capital late on Wednesday night as coordinate serial explosions and indiscriminate firing rocked eight 
areas across Mumbai including the crowded CST railway station, two five star hotels--Oberoi and Taj. ( Watch ) 

At least 80 people were dead and 250 injured in the terror attacks, hospital sources said. 

Armed with AK-47 rifles and grenades, a couple of terrorists entered the passenger hall of CST and opened fire and threw grenades, Mumbai General Railway Police Commissioner A K Sharma said. 

The terror strike which began at 10:33 PM at Chhatrapathi Shivaji Terminus(CST), formerly known as the Victoria Terminus(VT), claimed 10 lives in the premises of the station alone, police said. 

Three persons were killed in a bomb explosion in a taxi on Mazegaon dockyard road and an equal number were gunned down at Taj Hotel. The victims in the hotel were its employees. 

The lobby of the Oberoi hotel was on fire and the hotel evacuated, eyewitnesses said. 

Maharashtra DGP A N Roy said tonight's attack in "at least seven places" is a "terror strike." 

Sharma said 30 persons were injured in the CST incident. Commandoes were rushed to the CST which wore a deserted look and train services suspended. 

The NSG commandos were on standby and national disaster response force unit is being rushed to Mumbai, the Ministry of Home Affairs officials said. 

Some people were injured in the firing in Oberoi hotel, and taken to a nearby hospital in police vans and ambulance. Firing was also reported in Taj hotel. 

Firing was reported at Colaba, Nariman Point and near Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminal, formerly Victoria Terminus and it was still continuing. 

Firing was also reported at Cama Hospital in south Mumbai, police said, adding that a blast was reported in a taxi under a flyover in suburban Vile Parle. A bomb went off in a taxi in Mazegaon dockyard road. 

SRPF personnel then entered the iconic BMC building -- just opposite CST -- to take aim at the assailants, BMC commissioner Jairaj Phatak said. "We fear some of the assailants are still inside the station and we want to catch them if they come out," a police official said. 

Vikhroli police station senior inspector Habib Ansari was on his way to work from his Colaba home when he saw two armed men, with sophisticated weaponry, trying to run into bylanes near the Gateway of India. 

"I rushed back to Colaba and all policemen, including GRP and RPF personnel, were called up," he added. 

Bhisham Mansukhani, a journalist, was attending a wedding reception at the Taj's Crystal Room. "I was inside the bar when glass shards almost hit my eye," he said. "More than 200 people were escorted inside Chambers, a business centre inside the hotel," he added.


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## Always Neutral

Chanakya.10 said:


> There are reportst that tese mosquitoes have been holed up in a room in TAJ..... Well now let the commondos play their game...................
> 
> bloody ******* ******* **** ********* **** ******



I believe they have only taken UK and US citizens as hostage.

However the Bombay Police look very inept and fat.

Regards


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## Chanakya.10

I wish our PM was like Putin....

He must have hung all these cheap donkeys by their b*lls...


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## Chanakya.10

Always Neutral said:


> I believe they have only taken UK and US citizens as hostage.
> 
> However the Bombay Police look very inept and fat.
> 
> Regards





ATS and NSG commondos are pitted against them.......


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## newlife

> I wish our PM was like Putin....
> 
> He must have hung all these cheap donkeys by their b*lls...




Ye hindustan hai mere bhai....



2 din baad fir vohi secular song shuru ho jaiga.....


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## Imran Khan

newlife said:


> Definitely not sir...
> Whole world knows it...
> ISI is the purest and most anti terrorist organization of pakistan...



as you like to say but i will just concern that after any incedent police and agencyes take time may be weeks for investigate the matter but guys start blaming on the time is it logic?


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## Nihat

Always Neutral said:


> I believe they have only taken UK and US citizens as hostage.
> 
> However the Bombay Police look very inept and fat.
> 
> Regards



yes , thats right - american and British Citizens are being holed up in a single room in the Taj hotel while commandos prepare to storm the building and save them.

For anyone who wants to watch live coverage

IBNLive.com > CNN IBN Live Streaming


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## newlife

no pota....
ghandhigiri....

non voilance.... etc etc


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## tyagi

the police is not ment to deal with these type of attack .they even dont have a swat team .


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## Chanakya.10

BLASTS, FIRING IN CITY
40 held hostage at Trident Hotel
Firing at JW Marriott hotel: Reports
Fresh blasts at Trident, Taj hotel
Two terrorists reportedly killed
NSG being moved to Mumbai
Gunmen take 15 hostages at Taj; half of them foreigners: Eye witness


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## Nihat

There is no need to blame ISI , Pak , BD at this stage - If anything , pray for the hostages who are undergoing a situation you would not want your worst enemy to suffer

Reactions: Like Like:
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## tyagi

lot of ats people have died in the attack . just in ats asp is dead


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## Chanakya.10

newlife said:


> Ye hindustan hai mere bhai....
> 
> 
> 
> 2 din baad fir vohi secular song shuru ho jaiga.....



I think the time is approaching.................

Y dont those big fat stomachs sitting in Delhi get killed/????


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## newlife

> I think the time is approaching.................



we r ready...for the change


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## Imran Khan

i seen on tv that pak cerket team members inside taj are thay safe


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## newlife

whats the current news guys....


as i have no tv and slowest narrow band net....


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## M_Saint

HK-47 said:


> sigh it's never ending isn't it?and during the elections too..well well.
> yes I can already see the accusations appear.ISI using Bangladeshi agents *rolls eyes*



My gut feeling is that there is even bigger possibility to put pressure on upcoming U.S administration in pursuing the current course of WOT than linking ISI/BD with this attack. ISI is not one hundredth as potent as we like to believe and it has been proved that shifting the blame on others of RAW/MOSSAD's evil acts are part of their sinister connivances to annihilate practicing Muslims. GOP lately towed to the war criminal's demand to abolish ISI's political wing, which was testimonial to the fact heads of ISI was listening to the war party than pashtun cries. Now coming back to topic, blast occurred in a five star hotel where many Westerner stayed, so presumably Obama admin. would be shown the rational to stay on the course of WOT and why would Sangh Paribar+Likudists let U.S retreat from WOT since their ride on it to kill as many Muslims as possible went so well? Furthermore, if head is rolled than tail like ISI/BD would go with it. So, finding the motive of the blast should be directed at Sangh Paribar+Likudist's camp instead of getting bought into BR, FOX's dissemination. And finally, Goeble would have praised the Muslim haters that they beat him in conspiring by seeing the genius of their crime and getting away by scapegoat tings some naives.


----------



## Chanakya.10

Police confiscate two explosive laden boats off Chowpatty
Encounter cop Vijay Salaskar killed
40 held hostage at Trident Hotel
Firing at JW Marriott hotel: Reports
Fresh blasts at Trident, Taj hotel
Two terrorists reportedly killed
Army asked to be on stand by
Gunmen take 15 hostages at Taj; half of them foreigners: Eye witness


----------



## Flintlock

Taj Hotel is on fire....

Some of India's Top business leaders have been taken hostage in the Taj.


----------



## smeaglegolum

M_Saint said:


> My gut feeling is that there is even bigger possibility to put pressure on upcoming U.S administration in pursuing the current course of WOT than linking ISI/BD with this attack. ISI is not one hundredth as potent as we like to believe and it has been proved that shifting the blame on others of RAW/MOSSAD's evil acts are part of their sinister connivances to annihilate practicing Muslims. GOP lately towed to the war criminal's demand to abolish ISI's political wing, which was testimonial to the fact heads of ISI was listening to the war party than pashtun cries. Now coming back to topic, blast occurred in a five star hotel where many Westerner stayed, so presumably Obama admin. would be shown the rational to stay on the course of WOT and why would Sangh Paribar+Likudists let U.S retreat from WOT since their ride on it to kill as many Muslims as possible went so well? Furthermore, if head is rolled than tail like ISI/BD would go with it. So, finding the motive of the blast should be directed at Sangh Paribar+Likudist's camp instead of getting bought into BR, FOX's dissemination. And finally, Goeble would have praised the Muslim haters that they beat him in conspiring by seeing the genius of their crime and getting away by scapegoat tings some naives.



For god's sake don't bring politics now.


----------



## Flintlock

*Here is one of the terrorists: *

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Flintlock

The ARMY has been brought in and they have entered the Trident Hotel.


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## Chanakya.10

Flintlock said:


> *Here is one of the terrorists: *





Can anyone notice something on his right wrist??????


PLz dont tell me it's what it looks like..................
.


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## Imran Khan

Chanakya.10 said:


> Can anyone notice something on his right wrist??????
> 
> 
> PLz dont tell me it's what it looks like..................
> .



its blood so sad he is son of a mother


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## Awesome

What is that red thing on his wrist? Is he crying?

How many explosions have there been? Some people are describing that there are more explosions than can be counted.

Is the whole city under siege? Is this some sort of uprising? How did it start? What was the purpose of the terrorists? Were they planning to kidnap kill someone important or they got stuck in a corner and decided to take hostages?


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## tyagi

can this be LTTE attack. due to india helping srilanka


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## Awesome

Sohail Tanveer/Kamran Akmal trapped within the Taj!

They are speaking on air, sitting tight in their rooms probably.


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## Imran Khan

Asim Aquil said:


> Sohail Tanveer/Kamran Akmal trapped within the Taj!
> 
> They are speaking on air, sitting tight in their rooms probably.




god bless them tararrsts are enemy no-1 of pakistanis


----------



## Chanakya.10

tyagi said:


> can this be LTTE attack. due to india helping srilanka



I think so............. Looks quite a possibility.....

Police also found 2 boats with explosives, they might have come via sea route..........

RIP to all the innocent who died and got injured.....


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## tyagi

JUST IN ON HEADLINES TODAY SOME NEW ORGANISATION HAS TAKEN RESPONSIBILITY NAME DECAN Muhajadeen


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## smeaglegolum

Asim Aquil said:


> What is that red thing on his wrist? Is he crying?
> 
> How many explosions have there been? Some people are describing that there are more explosions than can be counted.
> 
> Is the whole city under siege? Is this some sort of uprising? How did it start? What was the purpose of the terrorists? Were they planning to kidnap kill someone important or they got stuck in a corner and decided to take hostages?



It is still chaotic. Several five star hotels attaacked. 
Foreigners taken hostage. 
Top policemen shot dead.
Who are these terrorists, no body knows. They have caught 2 terrorists, so we will know who are they in a while.
Army has been pressed in.
Situation is very serious.


----------



## Awesome

There is a possibility of them being south or eastern Indians.

Can't tell much from that picture... He could fit either of the regions. My money is on the south!


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## Awesome

tyagi said:


> JUST IN ON HEADLINES TODAY SOME NEW ORGANISATION HAS TAKEN RESPONSIBILITY NAME DECAN Muhajadeen


Deccan!? Gujjus?

All possible.


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## Neo

Bl0ody cowards! 
My sincere condolences, hope you guys get these pigs alive.


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## Flintlock

*Deccan Mujahideen??*

WTF is that?


----------



## Awesome

Guys just read this. Scary account of how things transpired at the Taj

India attacks: Mumbai survivors tell of how gunmen opened fire | World news | guardian.co.uk


> Mumbai survivors tell of how gunmen opened fire
> 
> Survivors of a series of co-ordinated terror attacks in India's financial capital of Mumbai told tonight how they fled as gunmen opened fire in a number of locations where locals and tourists were gathered.
> 
> They included a British MEP who said that he had seen a gunman opening fire in the lobby of Taj Mahal hotel, where he and other members of delegation of European politicians were staying ahead of the forthcoming EU-India summit.
> 
> "All I saw was one man on foot carrying a machine gun type of weapon - which I then saw him firing from and I saw people hitting the floor, people right next to me," said Sajjad Karim, an MEP for the North West of England.
> 
> "I was in the lobby of the hotel when gunmen came in and people started running."
> 
> "There were about 25 or 30 of us," said the Tory MEP, speaking by mobile phone from a barricaded basement room.
> 
> "Some of us split one way and some another. A gunman just stood there spraying bullets around, right next to me. I managed to turn away and I ran into the hotel kitchen and then we were shunted into a restaurant in the basement.
> 
> "We are now in the dark in this room and we've barricaded all the doors. It's really bad, " added Mr Karim.
> 
> Guests at the hotel, including Britons, were moved from one location to another amid confusion as at least one explosion rocked the building following the initial gun attacks.
> 
> The 105-year-old, 600-room waterfront hotel is described as one of Mumbai's architectural marvels. Located on the seafront, it has been host to royalty both domestic and foreign and was to have been the base for the England cricket team next month after a previous stay two weeks ago.
> 
> Two British men working in Mumbai described how the gunmen burst into the Kandahar restaurant at another hotel, the Oberoi, and rounded up diners who appeared to be tourists.
> 
> Alex Chamberlain, who is in Mumbai working for the Indian Premier League website said: "A guy burst into the Kandahar with a machine gun. He was in western dress wearing jeans and he asked for British and American tourists."
> 
> "They told everybody to stop and put their hands up and asked if there were any British or Americans. My friend said to me, don't be a hero, don't say you are British."
> 
> "I am sure that is what this is all about. They were talking about British and Americans specifically."
> 
> He said that he and another man managed to escape the gunmen through a fire exit and stumbled through smoke that was now filling the hotel."
> 
> They made their way to the lobby and emerged outside to find fire engines and 20 armed policemen, "looking as scared as we were".
> 
> Rajesh Patel, who works for HSBC, added: "Three men came into the restaurant. They were young, around 20 years old. And they started rounding up foreigners that were eating there. They told everyone to drop their phones and to 'come with us' and then at that point the blast happened. So we decided to run outside but around 15 were taken, not just British and Americans but Indians as well. The were taken up to the 20th floor but we had run outside."
> 
> One woman, who gave her name as Souad, told Al Jazeera that she had escaped an attack on the Oberoi hotel.
> 
> "We heard no alarms, nothing. My husband opened the door and we couldn't see outside - it was so dark with all the smoke - we couldn't breathe.
> 
> "We were on the 17th floor of the hotel and we used towels to protect ourselves and then ran and got a taxi and then we just drove as far away as we could."
> 
> Another Tory MEP, Said Kamal, told the Guardian that he had left the same Taj Mahal hotel earlier to go out for dinner and had received a call from a colleague warning him not to return as there had been a number of attacks.
> 
> "It seems like these attacks were deliberately targeting locations where foreigners were staying," said Mr Kamal, who added that a Hungarian official working with MEPs was among the injured.
> 
> "It sounds quite bad. I've been receiving texts from a German MEP who told me that she is hiding in one of the hotel kitchens. She just said 'it's dangerous and I'm in hiding'."
> 
> Indian Television stations showed pictures of the lobby of both the Taj and the Oberoi hotels on fire, and of people being evacuated from the Oberoi with their hands on their heads.
> 
> Some of the injured were evacuated from the Taj on the hotel's golden luggage carts.
> 
> Local channels also broadcast unconfirmed reports of shooting outside the Cafe Leopold, a popular restaurant for tourists in the city, and at hospitals and railway stations.
> 
> Al Jazeera journalist Riz Khan, who was in the city, said that the police appeared to have been taken by surprise.
> 
> "They are not equipped for this type of attack, which would have been organised as it struck several areas at once," he added.
> 
> Elsewhere, firing was reported at the Cama Hospital in south Mumbai, while police said that a blast was reported in a taxi under a flyover in a suburban district, Vile Parle. There was also reports of a bomb explosion in a taxi in Mazegaon dockyard road.
> 
> Police said that the attacks began shortly after 10.30pm at Chhatrapathi Shivaji Terminus (CST), formerly known as the Victoria Terminus (VT), where the gunmen claimed 10 lives.
> 
> The authorities added that three persons were killed in a bomb explosion in a taxi on Mazegaon dockyard road and an equal number were gunned down at Taj Hotel, where guests were told to stay indoors or not return. The victims in the hotel were said to be employees.
> 
> Mumbai General Railway Police Commissioner A K Sharma said that 30 persons were injured in the terminus incident.
> 
> "It seems to be a terrorist attack, many places are under siege by gunmen," he added.
> 
> "The terrorists have used automatic weapons and in some places grenades have been lobbed. The encounters are still going on and we are trying to overpower them."


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## smeaglegolum

Any conclusions right now will be stupidity. We have to wait and see he official word, what those terrorists will say.


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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> *Deccan Mujahideen??*
> 
> WTF is that?


Hyderabad Deccan.

The Urdu name differentiating between Sindh and AP, Hyderabads. Well thats the simplistic explanation.


----------



## Awesome

smeaglegolum said:


> Any conclusions right now will be stupidity. We have to wait and see he official word, what those terrorists will say.


Of course anyone can claim responsibility falsely and give any name.

Either for fame or defamation.

I wonder if the ATS chief was the target. Is he accomplished?


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## Awesome

*Guys post links with all quotations from external sites. I know its a hot thread and people want to post in a hurry, but take the time out for links. They are important in the long run.*

Imran kindly use some other color to highlight your text. Admins/mods use red to make our official messages stand out. Thanks.


----------



## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> Hyderabad Deccan.
> 
> The Urdu name differentiating between Sindh and AP, Hyderabads. Well thats the simplistic explanation.



I know what Deccan is. It could as easily apply to Maharashtra or Karnataka.


----------



## tyagi

Asim Aquil said:


> Of course anyone can claim responsibility falsely and give any name.
> 
> Either for fame or defamation.
> 
> I wonder if the ATS chief was the target. Is he accomplished?



NO HE DIEAD WILL LEADING A RESCUE OPERATION


----------



## Always Neutral

smeaglegolum said:


> It is still chaotic. Several five star hotels attaacked.
> Foreigners taken hostage.
> Top policemen shot dead.
> Who are these terrorists, no body knows. They have caught 2 terrorists, so we will know who are they in a while.
> Army has been pressed in.
> Situation is very serious.



Well I recognised the insignia of the IMSF not army on fox news.

Lets see how ggod they are ?

Regards


----------



## Awesome

Mumbai attackers looked for foreign passport holders | Top News | Reuters



> *Mumbai attackers looked for foreign passport holders*
> NEW DELHI (Reuters) - A witness told Indian television that gunmen in Mumbai looked for British and U.S. passport holders.
> 
> "They wanted anyone with British or American passports," a witness at the Taj Hotel, who said he was from London and was in India on business, told the NDTV news channel. He had smoke stains all over his face. "They wanted foreigners."


----------



## smeaglegolum

Update: 9 terrorists arrested according to CNN-IBN live. No links, it is on TV.


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## Awesome

tyagi said:


> NO HE DIEAD WILL LEADING A RESCUE OPERATION


The Anti-Terrorism agency chief went in for a rescue Op himself?

You sure? It doesn't say so anywhere.


----------



## smeaglegolum

Asim Aquil said:


> The Anti-Terrorism agency chief went in for a rescue Op himself?
> 
> You sure? It doesn't say so anywhere.



Yes he was on a rescue op. It was shown live on TV when he was wearing Bullet proof vest. He was shot in the head. An ACP and a DIG is also dead.


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## Neo

Flintlock said:


> *Deccan Mujahideen??*
> 
> WTF is that?



Its the same group which claimed responsibility for the Delhi, Ahmedabad, Bengalore and Jaipur blasts this summer.

*Next Mumbai: Indian Mujahideen​*
*Monday, September 15, 2008(!)* 

The Indian Mujahideen, which has claimed responsibility for the Delhi, Ahmedabad, Bangalore and Jaipur blasts killing at least 130 people in a span of four months, *has now threatened to carry out attacks in Mumbai,* report Agencies. 

Accusing Mumbai Police&#8217;s ATS of harassing Muslims, Indian Mujahideen said in its email that it was closely watching the ATS.

*&#8220;You should know that your acts are not at all left unnoticed; rather we are closely keeping an eye on you and just waiting for the right time to execute your bloodshed. We are aware of your recent raids at Ansarnagar, Mograpada in Andheri and the harassment and trouble you created there for the Muslims,&#8221; the group said in the email they sent to various media houses on Saturday evening.*
*
&#8220;You threatened to murder them and your mischief went to such an extent that you even dared to abuse and insult Maulana Mahmood-ul-Hasan Qasmi and even misbehaved with the Muslim women and children there,&#8221; the email said.*

*&#8220;If this is the degree your arrogance has reached, and if you think that by these stunts you can scare us, then let the Indian Mujahideen warn all the people of Mumbai that whatever deadly attacks Mumbaikars will face in future, their responsibility would lie with the Mumbai ATS and their guardians &#8211; Vilasrao Deshmukh and R R Patil,&#8221; the email said. &#8220;You are already on our hit-list and this time very very seriously.&#8221;*

The terror outfit also threatened to target a senior Rajasthan police official. &#8220;All the Mujahideen who shook Jaipur are absolutely safe and secure, and are preparing for our next targets, one of which is A K Jain &#8211; the DIG of Rajasthan,&#8221; claimed Indian Mujahideen.

Jain has been instrumental in arresting several SIMI members in Rajasthan in connection with the May 13 serial blasts in Jaipur. The mail bears two signatures at the end &#8211; Guru Alhindi and al-Arbi.

Source

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> The Anti-Terrorism agency chief went in for a rescue Op himself?
> 
> You sure? It doesn't say so anywhere.



He was leading an operation against the terrorists.


----------



## tyagi

smeaglegolum said:


> Update: 9 terrorists arrested according to CNN-IBN live. No links, it is on TV.



DUDE IT IS 9 SUSPECT .A HOSPITAL HAS ALSO BEEN attacked AND MANY PEOPLE IN THE HOSPITAL HAVE BEEN TAKEN HOSTAGE


----------



## Awesome

ATS was actively investigating the malegoan blasts

Pandey laptop could provide evidence in Malegaon blast-India-The Times of India


> *Pandey laptop could provide evidence in Malegaon blast*
> 
> MUMBAI: A laptop seized from self-styled religious leader Dayanand Pandey could provide investigators valuable evidence regarding the alleged
> 
> conspiracy to carry out the September 29 Malegaon blast, sources here claimed. ( Watch )
> 
> Pandey was allegedly in the habit of using his laptop, seized when he was arrested in Kanpur on November 14, to film and record meetings with people including fellow conspirators whom he met prior to the Malegaon blast.
> 
> The religious leader used the laptop to record conversations and also video recorded many of the meetings he held with other conspirators, the sources alleged.
> 
> The recordings are expected to provide valuable evidence to the ATS regarding the role of other accused and Pandey in carrying out the blast.
> 
> Pandey is among the eleven persons arrested for their alleged involvement in the Malegaon blast in which six persons were killed and over 80 wounded.
> 
> The laptop also contained a lot of right wing literature and documents which could be used to prove the accused had plans to commit more terror acts in the country, sources said.
> 
> Visitors to the self-styled religious leader were also filmed or photographed by Pandey when they visited him, the sources said, adding that the final report from the Forensic Science Laboratory was still awaited.
> 
> The ATS had earlier alleged that Pandey was among the main conspirators to carry out the blast and was the link between arrested Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur, army official Prasad Purohit and wanted accused in the Malegaon case, Ramji Kalsangra.
> 
> All eleven accused have been booked under sections of the stringent MCOCA for allegedly forming an organised crime syndicate which carried out the Malegaon blast.
> 
> Nine of the other accused in the case are presently in judicial custody till December 3 after the MCOCA court on Monday had rejected the plea by the ATS to obtain police custody of the Sadhvi, Purohit and member of the right wing group Abhinav Bharat, Ajay Rahirkar.
> 
> The ATS had said they wanted to question the trio further in connection with other arrests made in the case like Abhinav Bharat member Sudhakar Chaturvedi.
> 
> Chaturvedi was caught in the city and a fake army identity card and a country made revolver, which were allegedly provided by Purohit, were recovered from him.
> 
> The Abhinav Bharat member, in police custody till December 3, also organised meetings between the eleven accused in the case and knew all of them, ATS officials had said.





ATS chief Karkare an upright officer: Ex-Maha DGP :: SamayLive



> *ATS chief Karkare an upright officer: Ex-Maha DGP*
> 
> Nagpur, Nov 26: Anti-Terrorist Squad (ATS) chief Hemant Karkare, who is under attack from saffron brigade, has received appreciation from none other than his senior and former Maharashtra director general of police Arvind Inamdar.
> 
> "He is a good and upright officer, a law enforcing officer and has a good track record," Inamdar told reporters here yesterday at the inaugural function of Jaanta Raja's theatre group office.
> 
> Inamdar, however declined to comment on the Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur case and criticism of police investigation saying, "these are subjudice matters." "We have worked together and I know him well," he replied to a reporters question.
> 
> Inamdar's comments came at a function which was attended by noted historian Shivshahir Balasaheb Purandare, the producer-director of 'Jaanta Raja', besides members of the Sangh parivar were also present.


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## Awesome

tyagi said:


> DUDE IT IS 9 SUSPECT .A HOSPITAL HAS ALSO BEEN attacked AND MANY PEOPLE IN THE HOSPITAL HAVE BEEN TAKEN HOSTAGE


Can someone list down all the locations that have been taken over?


----------



## smeaglegolum

Please no politics/conspiracy theories right now. It was his duty being an ATS to be there. They didn't do all this to kill the ATS cheif.


----------



## smeaglegolum

Locations:

CST. Railway station
Hotels Trident, Oberoi, Taj mahal, Mariott, Ramada
Hospital CAM


----------



## Awesome

Are you sure?

*Police confirm threat to blow up ATS chief's house*



> An anonymous caller, who used a PCO to contact Pune police, threatened to blow up the residence of Mumbai Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) Chief Hemant Karkare "within a couple of days", a top official confirmed on Wednesday.
> The caller who spoke a few lines in Marathi on November 24 evening cut the line after giving the threat, Rajendra Sonavane, Joint Commissioner of Police (JCP), said.
> 
> The call was later traced to a Public booth in Sahkar Nagar area of the city, he added.
> 
> Asked whether it was being seen as a 'hoax', Sonavane said police were taking all such threats seriously in the present scenario and the Mumbai ATS had been informed duly about the threat call.


----------



## tyagi

Asim Aquil said:


> Can someone list down all the locations that have been taken over?



BY WHAT I AM SEEING ON T.V 
3 5STAR HOTELS
1 HOSPITAL 
1 MALL 
AND 2 TERRORIST HOW WERE KILLED .WERE FREE ROAMING IN THE CAR AND SHOOTING ANY ONE THEY SAW ON THE ROAD


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## Neo

More news coming in.

Video: http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=10851093&ch=4226714&src=news


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## smeaglegolum

It is not right to jump to conclusions right now. nobody in their right mind would do it. 9 terrorists are arrested. We will know the truth eventually. Why the hurry?.


----------



## tyagi

Asim Aquil said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> *Police confirm threat to blow up ATS chief's house*



DUDE WATCH CNN THEY R SHOWING HIM GETTING READY TO LEAD A RESCUE OPERATION


----------



## Flintlock

Asim, he was killed while leading an operation. That's what they are telling us.

He was not a target. Don't try to force through some conspiracy.


----------



## Awesome

tyagi said:


> DUDE WATCH CNN THEY R SHOWING HIM GETTING READY TO LEAD A RESCUE OPERATION


Hmmm, fine. But thats not what I was suspecting to be false.


----------



## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> Asim, he was killed while leading an operation. That's what they are telling us.
> 
> He was not a target. Don't try to force through some conspiracy.


It does seem quite suspicious. He gets threats, hes closing in on the malegaon culprits and then a situation is created where the chief has to go in for the rescue op and then that big name chief is killed.


----------



## Imran Khan

*Terror attacks in Mumbai; 80 dead, over 900 injured*
: 



Mumbai: In one of the most violent terror attacks on Indian soil, Mumbai came under an unprecedented night attack as terrorists used heavy machine A policeman stands guard after shootings by unidentified assailants at a railway station in Mumbai. (Reuters)

More Pictures 
guns, including AK-47s, and grenades to strike at the city's most high-profile targets -- the hyper-busy CST (formerly VT) rail terminus; the landmark Taj Hotel at the Gateway and the luxury Oberoi Trident at Nariman Point; the domestic airport at Santa Cruz; the Cama and GT hospitals near CST; the Metro Adlabs multiplex and Mazgaon Dockyard -- killing at least 80 and sending more than 900 to hospital, according to latest reports. ( Watch ) 

The attacks have taken a tragic toll on the city's top police brass: The high-profile chief of the anti-terror squad Hemant Karkare was killed; Mumbai's additional commissioner of police (east) Ashok Kamte was gunned down outside the Metro; and celebrated encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar was also killed. ( Watch ) 

The attacks appeared to be aimed at getting international attention as the terrorists took upto 40 British nationals and other foreigners hostage. The chairman of Hindustan Unilever Harish Manwani and CEO of the company Nitin Paranjpe were among the guests trapped at the Oberoi. All the internal board members of the multinational giant were reported to be holed up in the Oberoi hotel. 

Two terrorists were reported holed up inside the Oberoi Hotel and commando operation was on. 

An unknown outfit, Deccan Mujahideen, has sent an email to news organizations claiming that it carried out the Mumbai attacks. 

The Army and Navy in Mumbai were put on alert. 65 Army commandos and 200 NSG commandos were being rushed to Mumbai, Home Minister Shivraj Patil said. 

Some media reports attributed the attack to Lashkar-e-Taiba. There were alsounconfirmed reports that some of the terrorists came in by sea. A boat laden with explosives was recovered later at night off the Gateway of India. 

Well after midnight, sources said two of the terrorists were shot and wounded at Girgaum in south Mumbai. The two were driving in a commandeered silver-coloured Skoda car. Earlier, these men had sprayed bullets from a police Bolero, outside the Metro Adlabs multiplex. 

The attacks occurred at the busiest places. Besides hotels and hospitals, terrorists struck at railway stations, Crawford Market, Wadi Bunder and on the Western Express Highway near the airport. Several of these places are within a one-km radius of the commissioner of police's office. "This is definitely a terrorist strike. Seven places have bee attacked with automatic weapons and grenades. Terrorists are still holed up in three locations Taj and Oberoi hotels and GT Hospital. Encounters are on at all three places," said Maharashtra DGP A N Roy. 

St George's Hospital and G T Hospital were said to have received 75 bodies and more than 250 injured people, additional municipal commissioner R A Rajeev said. Bombay Hospital got two bodies and 30 injured people were admitted there; Cooper Hospital, Vile Parle, got three dismembered bodies. 

Three of the deaths occurred inside the Taj and one G T Hospital attendant died in a shootout inside the hospital. There were reports of people cowering under tables and chairs at both the Taj as well as G T Hospital. 

Metro Junction resident Manoj Goel said: "My brother, Manish, died in the firing at Colaba's Hamaal Galli." 
Cops fired back at the men -- probably from one of the Lashkar groups, dressed in black and with backpacks and SRPF, Crime Branch, ATS and teams of military commandos were summoned to the spot. Train services at CST were suspended and all roads leading to and from south Mumbai were blockaded. 

Maharashtra Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh cut short his Kerala visit and was returning to Mumbai. He described the situation in Mumbai as "very serious". 

Deshmukh promised "stringent action" against the assailants but the mood across Mumbai was not so optimistic.


----------



## smeaglegolum

^^^Some people doesn't change. Why jump to conclusions?. What is the hurry for you, I don't understand?.


----------



## Awesome

smeaglegolum said:


> ^^^Some people doesn't change. Why jump to conclusions?. What is the hurry for you, I don't understand?.


I haven't concluded anything yet! Its called speculation... With links! 

Stop being such a drama queen. Its not the end of the world, its just my speculative opinion.


----------



## Flintlock

This is going to be the biggest terror attack in India's history. It is going to shake the entire country from inside out, and the fallout from this is going to be huge.


----------



## Awesome

Just don't call it "India's 911". I've heard such terms be so abused over n over...


----------



## newlife

> This is going to be the biggest terror attack in India's history. It is going to shake the entire country from inside out, and the fallout from this is going to be huge.




It would invite serious use of force against terrorists....


----------



## Neo

Asim Aquil said:


> It does seem quite suspicious. He gets threats, hes closing in on the malegaon culprits and then a situation is created where the chief has to go in for the rescue op and then that big name chief is killed.



Thats classic man!


----------



## smeaglegolum

Asim Aquil said:


> I haven't concluded anything yet! Its called speculation... With links!
> 
> Stop being such a drama queen. Its not the end of the world, its just my speculative opinion.



Keep your speculations for later. People are dying.
Do you also want me to speculate on Deccan Mujahideen?.


----------



## Imran Khan

*200 people held hostage at Taj Hotel *
Press Trust of India 
Thursday, November 27, 2008, (Mumbai)
About 200 people were on Wednesday night holed up inside a hall in the Taj Hotel in Mumbai as they were advised by the hotel staff not to go out because of the attack by terrorists.

They are holed up in the hall in the old wing of the hotel since 9.30 pm, when terrorists struck.

Krishna Das, MP, who was among those held up, said they had been advised not to move out of the hall till the police clears the place of terrorists.

He was having dinner with some friends in a restaurant of the hotel when he heard gunshots. The guests ducked under the table from where they had fleeting glimpse of terrorists who were firing indiscriminately.

At least 10 top business executives are also stuck on another floor of the hotel.


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## Black Stone

Something needs to be done...


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## Imran Khan

*Firing on at Trident hotel, Army storms besieged Taj *NDTV Correspondent 
Wednesday, November 26, 2008, (Mumbai)
Over 90 people have been killed and about 200 injured in many terrorist attacks in Mumbai on Wednesday night.

Two five-star hotels - Trident and Taj - are under siege and gunmen are reported to have held the occupants hostage.

An ATS team has arrived at the Taj, where fifth blast was reported; a grenade was flung from inside the hotel. The Army has stormed the Taj hotel and taken position at Trident hotel.

Meanwhile, there are reports that nine suspected terrorists have been caught and two killed in the operation but three escaped.

A little known outfit Deccan Mujahideen has claimed responsibility for the attacks.

Meanwhile, there are reports of firing at JW Marriott hotel also.

"Encounter is on between police and terrorists at Taj and Trident. Our people have surrounded them and the Anti-Terrorist Squad (ATS) team has arrived at the Taj hotel," A N Roy, Deputy Police Commissioner.

Home Minister Shivraj Patil has left for Mumbai.

Many foreigners are reported to be held hostage by the terrorists.

"Gunmen took 15 hostages and half of them foreigners," said an eye-witness at Taj hotel.

"Gunmen wanted anyone with British or American passport," said another eye-witness.

According to latest reports hostages taken in Cama hospital of the city.

Encounter cops Vijay Salaskar and Ashok Kanthe have been killed in the operation. Maharashtra Anti-Terrorism Squad chief Hemant Karkare who was injured in the operation has succumbed to his injuries.

Additional commissioner of police Sadanand Date is critical.

There are also reports of low intensity blast in Ville Parle and grenade attack in Santa Cruz. Two blasts reported in Napean Sea road area of south Mumbai.

Police sources are investigating a boat which anchored off Mumbai harbour.

It all started with incidents of firing in Colaba and near CST station. One policeman was injured in the firing.

PTI adds Earlier, police cordoned off the CST and none was allowed to enter it. 

Two persons armed with automatic weapons and hand grenades were reportedly holding up inside CST stations.

Hundreds of onlookers gathered outside the station. The station and premises has been evacuated.

One policeman was injured in the firing at Colaba and a number of people were wounded at CST where two armed men opened indiscriminate area.

Colaba is one of the most congested and high-profile areas of Mumbai and CST the busiest railway station.


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## Awesome

smeaglegolum said:


> Keep your speculations for later. People are dying.
> Do you also want me to speculate on Deccan Mujahideen?.


You're talking as if I'm poking fun at the dead!

What are you even asking me? Go ahead and talk about anything you want on the subject! This is a forum, people TALK! Stop telling people not to talk!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Awesome

Sohail Tanveer, Kamran Akmal safe in Mumbai terrorism - GEO.tv


> *Sohail Tanveer, Kamran Akmal safe in Mumbai terrorism*
> 
> MUMBAI: Pakistani cricketers Sohail Tanveer and Kamran Akmal were also present in Mumbai as the terror struck city however, both cricketers are safe and sound, Geo T.V reported.
> 
> More Pakistani and International cricketers are expected to arrive in Mumbai in next few days as T20 Champions League is scheduled from tomorrow.
> 
> Also, Sohail Tanveer and Kamran Akmal were to represent Rajhistan Royals team for Indian Premier League (IPL) to be played from next month.


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## Imran Khan

*INDIA TV CAPTURES MUMBAI TERRORIST ON CAMERA 
* 
The photograph above is of a terrorist who was involved idn an encounter with Mumbai police on Wednesday evening near Oberoi hotel.

Neraly 50 terrorists were reported involved in this near-simultaneous operation in which they struck at nine places indulging in indiscriminate firings and grenade blasts. Of them, 5 to 7 terrorists were reported to be women, though it could not be confirmed. 

Two boats laden with explosives were seized by police at Girgaum Chowpatty indicating that the terrorists had a bigger plan of terror in mind. 

A little known outfit Deccan Mujahideen has sent e-mails to media houses claiming responsibility, but security experts say that there appears to be a marger hand behind the black Wednesday Terror, which has so far taken a toll of 78 lives, including three senior ATS officers of Mumbai Police.

The dome of the century old Taj Hotel in Mumbai caught fire during the terror strike and was in danger of collapsing, reports raching late after midnight said. Army commandos have reached the spot to counter the terrrorists.


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## Awesome

imran khan said:


> *200 people held hostage at Taj Hotel *
> Press Trust of India
> Thursday, November 27, 2008, (Mumbai)
> About 200 people were on Wednesday night holed up inside a hall in the Taj Hotel in Mumbai as they were advised by the hotel staff not to go out because of the attack by terrorists.
> 
> They are holed up in the hall in the old wing of the hotel since 9.30 pm, when terrorists struck.
> 
> Krishna Das, MP, who was among those held up, said they had been advised not to move out of the hall till the police clears the place of terrorists.
> 
> He was having dinner with some friends in a restaurant of the hotel when he heard gunshots. The guests ducked under the table from where they had fleeting glimpse of terrorists who were firing indiscriminately.
> 
> At least 10 top business executives are also stuck on another floor of the hotel.


But the hotel was stormed by some security officials over an hour back.

What happened?


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## Imran Khan

Asim Aquil said:


> But the hotel was stormed by some security officials over an hour back.
> 
> What happened?



they pull back after ats cheafe kills or stop on there places until commandos never come from delhi


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## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> But the hotel was stormed by some security officials over an hour back.
> 
> What happened?



They've been evacuated safely.

The terrorists opened fire in the lobby of the Taj earlier, so we might have had casualties.

There are something like 3-5 gunbattles happening right now - things are in a total state of confusion.


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## newlife

> But the hotel was stormed by some security officials over an hour back.
> 
> What happened?



They r giving no details.....


----------



## Imran Khan

Mumbai Survivors Tell Of How Gunmen Opened Fire

MUMBAI SURVIVORS TELL OF HOW GUNMEN OPENED FIRE

Survivors of a series of co-ordinated terror attacks in Mumbai told tonight how they fled as gunmen opened fire in a number of locations where locals and tourists were gathered.

They included a British MEP who said that he had seen a gunman opening fire in the lobby of Taj Mahal hotel, where he and other members of delegation of European politicians were staying ahead of the forthcoming EU-India summit.



"All I saw was one man on foot carrying a machine gun type of weapon - which I then saw him firing from and I saw people hitting the floor, people right next to me," said Sajjad Karim, an MEP for the North West of England.

"I was in the lobby of the hotel when gunmen came in and people started running."

"There were about 25 or 30 of us," said the Tory MEP, speaking by mobile phone from a barricaded basement room.

"Some of us split one way and some another. A gunman just stood there spraying bullets around, right next to me. I managed to turn away and I ran into the hotel kitchen and then we were shunted into a restaurant in the basement.

"We are now in the dark in this room and we've barricaded all the doors. It's really bad, " added Mr Karim.

Guests at the hotel, including Britons, were moved from one location to another amid confusion as at least one explosion rocked the building following the initial gun attacks.



The 105-year-old, 600-room waterfront hotel is described as one of Mumbai's architectural marvels. Located on the seafront, it has been host to royalty both domestic and foreign and was to have been the base for the England cricket team next month after a previous stay two weeks ago.

Two British men working in Mumbai described how the gunmen burst into the Kandahar restaurant at another hotel, the Oberoi, and rounded up diners who appeared to be tourists.

Alex Chamberlain, who is in Mumbai working for the Indian Premier League website said: "A guy burst into the Kandahar with a machine gun. He was in western dress wearing jeans and he asked for British and American tourists."

"They told everybody to stop and put their hands up and asked if there were any British or Americans. My friend said to me, don't be a hero, don't say you are British."



"I am sure that is what this is all about. They were talking about British and Americans specifically."

He said that he and another man managed to escape the gunmen through a fire exit and stumbled through smoke that was now filling the hotel."

They made their way to the lobby and emerged outside to find fire engines and 20 armed policemen, "looking as scared as we were".

Rajesh Patel, who works for HSBC, added: "Three men came into the restaurant. They were young, around 20 years old. And they started rounding up foreigners that were eating there. They told everyone to drop their phones and to 'come with us' and then at that point the blast happened. So we decided to run outside but around 15 were taken, not just British and Americans but Indians as well. The were taken up to the 20th floor but we had run outside."

One woman, who gave her name as Souad, told Al Jazeera that she had escaped an attack on the Oberoi hotel.



"We heard no alarms, nothing. My husband opened the door and we couldn't see outside - it was so dark with all the smoke - we couldn't breathe.

"We were on the 17th floor of the hotel and we used towels to protect ourselves and then ran and got a taxi and then we just drove as far away as we could."

Another Tory MEP, Said Kamal, told the Guardian that he had left the same Taj Mahal hotel earlier to go out for dinner and had received a call from a colleague warning him not to return as there had been a number of attacks.

"It seems like these attacks were deliberately targeting locations where foreigners were staying," said Mr Kamal, who added that a Hungarian official working with MEPs was among the injured.

"It sounds quite bad. I've been receiving texts from a German MEP who told me that she is hiding in one of the hotel kitchens. She just said 'it's dangerous and I'm in hiding'."

Indian Television stations showed pictures of the lobby of both the Taj and the Oberoi hotels on fire, and of people being evacuated from the Oberoi with their hands on their heads.

Some of the injured were evacuated from the Taj on the hotel's golden luggage carts.

Local channels also broadcast unconfirmed reports of shooting outside the Cafe Leopold, a popular restaurant for tourists in the city, and at hospitals and railway stations.

Al Jazeera journalist Riz Khan, who was in the city, said that the police appeared to have been taken by surprise.

"They are not equipped for this type of attack, which would have been organised as it struck several areas at once," he added.

Elsewhere, firing was reported at the Cama Hospital in south Mumbai, while police said that a blast was reported in a taxi under a flyover in a suburban district, Vile Parle. There was also reports of a bomb explosion in a taxi in Mazegaon dockyard road.

Police said that the attacks began shortly after 10.30pm at Chhatrapathi Shivaji Terminus (CST), formerly known as the Victoria Terminus (VT), where the gunmen claimed 10 lives.

The authorities added that three persons were killed in a bomb explosion in a taxi on Mazegaon dockyard road and an equal number were gunned down at Taj Hotel, where guests were told to stay indoors or not return. The victims in the hotel were said to be employees.

Mumbai General Railway Police Commissioner A K Sharma said that 30 persons were injured in the terminus incident.

"It seems to be a terrorist attack, many places are under siege by gunmen," he added.

"The terrorists have used automatic weapons and in some places grenades have been lobbed. The encounters are still going on and we are trying to overpower them."


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## newlife

I think nothing will happen....

Police will wait till morning light...........


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## sunny_aus

imran khan said:


> as you like to say but i will just concern that after any incedent police and agencyes take time may be weeks for investigate the matter but guys start blaming on the time is it logic?



This type of terrorist attacks in india can&#8217;t be organised without full involvement of ISI. And the case becomes serious as a terrorist organisation like ISI is &#8220;funded&#8221; by a government.


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## Black Stone

They were looking for people with British and American passports. Is that true?.


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## smeaglegolum

There is a huge bomb blast on the top floor of Hotel Taj, completely covered in smoke.


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## Awesome

sunny_aus said:


> This type of terrorist attacks in india can&#8217;t be organised without full involvement of ISI. And the case becomes serious as a terrorist organisation like ISI is &#8220;funded&#8221; by a government.


Geez, no real purpose is served here for the ISI right?

Remember malegaon? Apparently stuff can't happen without the involvement of your own army boys either.


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## Patriot

sunny_aus said:


> This type of terrorist attacks in india can&#8217;t be organised without full involvement of ISI. And the case becomes serious as a terrorist organisation like ISI is &#8220;funded&#8221; by a government.


*<sniped>*
(Sorry mods..these guys just me ******* angry)


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## smeaglegolum

Black Stone said:


> They were looking for people with British and American passports. Is that true?.



Yes it is true. They have gathered all of the Westerners in one floor and took them hostage.


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## Awesome

smeaglegolum said:


> There is a huge bomb blast on the top floor of Hotel Taj, completely covered in smoke.


We're hearing about some 100 year old dome of the hotel which might have collapsed too.


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## Imran Khan

Bloody picture: http://www.indiatvnews.com/html/blood.jpg

*Situation grave in Mumbai: Deshmukh *
Press Trust of India 
Thursday, November 27, 2008, (Mumbai)
Maharashtra Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh on Wednesday said the situation was "grave" in the terror-hit Mumbai and asked the Centre to provide more security forces to deal with the situation.

Deshmukh said Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Congress President Sonia Gandhi called him and expressed concern over the attacks.

The Chief Minister strongly condemned the terror strikes and asked people not to believe in rumours.

Deshmukh assured people that his Government would take stringent action against the culprits involved in the attacks.

Police are fighting the terrorists, he said, and asked people to be at home and maintain peace.

Meanwhile, Deshmukh has cut short his Kerala visit and left for Mumbai


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## smeaglegolum

Targeting westerners clearly shows that there might be an hand of Islamic terrorism, Al-Qaeda or Taliban or Lashkar e Taeba or HUJI. They have also targeted a colony of Israelis in Mumbai.


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## Awesome

saadahmed said:


> (Sorry mods..these guys just me ******* angry)


*It doesn't matter. Anger is no excuse. This sort of behavior is unacceptable.*


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## Neo

smeaglegolum said:


> Targeting westerners clearly shows that there might be an hand of Islamic terrorism, Al-Qaeda or Taliban or Lashkar e Taeba or HUJI. They have also targeted a colony of Israelis in Mumbai.



Deccan Mujahideen's have already claimed responsibility.


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## Neo

sunny_aus said:


> This type of terrorist attacks in india cant be organised without full involvement of ISI. And the case becomes serious as a terrorist organisation like ISI is funded by a government.



Yeah right, didn't you guys claim the same in Samjhota Express blast?
Guess who else was responsible?


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## Patriot

smeaglegolum said:


> Targeting westerners clearly shows that there might be an hand of Islamic terrorism, Al-Qaeda or Taliban or Lashkar e Taeba or HUJI. They have also targeted a colony of Israelis in Mumbai.


Terrorism has no religion.


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## Imran Khan

*Deccan Mujahideen claims Mumbai attacks *27 Nov 2008, 0311 hrs IST, AGENCIES 





MUMBAI: A group calling itself the "Deccan Mujahedeen" claimed responsibility for Wednesday's attacks in Mumbai that killed 80 people, and injured 
over 900. 

The outfit sent emails to various media outlets saying it carried out the attacks across the city. 

Another little-known Islamic group, the Islamic Security Force-Indian Mujahedeen, had claimed responsibility for serial blasts last month in Assam that claimed nearly 80 lives. 

Six weeks earlier, New Delhi had been hit by a series of bombs in crowded markets that left more than 20 dead. Those blasts were claimed by a group calling itself the Indian Mujahedeen. 

.


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## Awesome

smeaglegolum said:


> Targeting westerners clearly shows that there might be an hand of Islamic terrorism, Al-Qaeda or Taliban or Lashkar e Taeba or HUJI. They have also targeted a colony of Israelis in Mumbai.


You guys have a terrorist problem with the Muslims, but I doubt its AQ and especially not the Taliban.

I've said this before and have been right 80&#37; of the times... "SIMI did it".


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## Neo

*Imran please stop flooding the thread with news articles, please summerise instead!!!*


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## newlife

sry but what does "Mujahedeen" means???


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## Awesome

Neo said:


> *Imran please stop flooding the thread with news articles, please summerise instead!!!*


*I would like to add to that a reminder to Imran to not to use the red highlight so much. That is something the admins prefer to use to highlight our official messages.*


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## Imran Khan

its not looking from his face a adult brain washed teen age guy


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## Neo

newlife said:


> sry but what does "Mujahedeen" means???



Its Arabic for warrior.


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## Imran Khan

> I would like to add to that a reminder to Imran to not to use the red highlight so much. That is something the admins prefer to use to highlight our official messages


.

this i lisen first time sir i will never use it again


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## Imran Khan

Neo said:


> *Imran please stop flooding the thread with news articles, please summerise instead!!!*



ok sir i want to clear whats going on


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## Black Stone

I don't understand why they are targetting Westerners.


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## newlife

> I don't understand why they are targetting Westerners.



so that it would make top news headline around the world...


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## smeaglegolum

Black Stone said:


> I don't understand why they are targetting Westerners.



Iraq, Afghanistan, ring the bells.


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## Neo

Black Stone said:


> I don't understand why they are targetting Westerners.



To get international media attention and world wide coverage.


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## smeaglegolum

Here is the image of blast in Taj hotel

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Black Stone

smeaglegolum said:


> Iraq, Afghanistan, ring the bells.



It does ring bells, but it does not make sense, why in India?. It could be an internal muslim/muslim or muslim/hindu thing.

If its for Iraq and Afghanistan they could do it in their respective countries.


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## Neo

Black Stone said:


> It does ring bells, but it does not make sense, why in India?. It could be an internal muslim/muslim or muslim/hindu thing.
> 
> If its for Iraq and Afghanistan they could do it in their respective countries.



I assume you missed my post #77 which explains the reason behind these blasts:



Flintlock said:


> *Deccan Mujahideen??*
> 
> WTF is that?



Its the same group which claimed responsibility for the Delhi, Ahmedabad, Bengalore and Jaipur blasts this summer.

*Next Mumbai: Indian Mujahideen​*
*Monday, September 15, 2008(!)* 

The Indian Mujahideen, which has claimed responsibility for the Delhi, Ahmedabad, Bangalore and Jaipur blasts killing at least 130 people in a span of four months, *has now threatened to carry out attacks in Mumbai,* report Agencies. 

Accusing Mumbai Polices ATS of harassing Muslims, Indian Mujahideen said in its email that it was closely watching the ATS.

*You should know that your acts are not at all left unnoticed; rather we are closely keeping an eye on you and just waiting for the right time to execute your bloodshed. We are aware of your recent raids at Ansarnagar, Mograpada in Andheri and the harassment and trouble you created there for the Muslims, the group said in the email they sent to various media houses on Saturday evening.*
*
You threatened to murder them and your mischief went to such an extent that you even dared to abuse and insult Maulana Mahmood-ul-Hasan Qasmi and even misbehaved with the Muslim women and children there, the email said.*

*If this is the degree your arrogance has reached, and if you think that by these stunts you can scare us, then let the Indian Mujahideen warn all the people of Mumbai that whatever deadly attacks Mumbaikars will face in future, their responsibility would lie with the Mumbai ATS and their guardians  Vilasrao Deshmukh and R R Patil, the email said. You are already on our hit-list and this time very very seriously.*

The terror outfit also threatened to target a senior Rajasthan police official. All the Mujahideen who shook Jaipur are absolutely safe and secure, and are preparing for our next targets, one of which is A K Jain  the DIG of Rajasthan, claimed Indian Mujahideen.

Jain has been instrumental in arresting several SIMI members in Rajasthan in connection with the May 13 serial blasts in Jaipur. The mail bears two signatures at the end  Guru Alhindi and al-Arbi.

Source


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## tyagi

Black Stone said:


> I don't understand why they are targetting Westerners.



DUDE THEY WERE TAKING THEM HOSTAGE .MAY FOR SOME DEMAND


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## Black Stone

tyagi said:


> DUDE THEY WERE TAKING THEM HOSTAGE .MAY FOR SOME DEMAND



I know they are taking hostages, but they were specifically targetting people with British and American passports. I wanted to know the reason. 

If they wanted any hostages only they could just take the closes person they see and not get specific on their nationalities.


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## smeaglegolum

Black Stone said:


> It does ring bells, but it does not make sense, why in India?. It could be an internal muslim/muslim or muslim/hindu thing.
> 
> If its for Iraq and Afghanistan they could do it in their respective countries.



Since you have attacked Iraq and Afghanistan, and some people believe India is against the muslims and hand in glove with America. As a result, they are sending message to you and India, don't mess with Muslims. It is something called 'brotherhood'. Other members can throw some light on 'brotherhood'.

This is my personal opinion.


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## Black Stone

Neo said:


> I assume you missed my post #77 which explains the reason behind these blasts:



I didn't miss it, it still does not state specifically that they were targetting the West. So I assume the probability for publicity is high.


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## Imran Khan

i don't beleve in brotherhood .if we belive brotherhood why happens incedents before 9\11. because every time there is new prob in world .


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## smeaglegolum

Blackstone, you are also forgetting that Al-qaeda has targeted western interests around the world. Bali, Egypt, Spain, Britain, etc being some of the examples And now India.


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## Black Stone

smeaglegolum said:


> Since you have attacked Iraq and Afghanistan, and some people believe India is against the muslims and hand in glove with America. As a result, they are sending message to you and India, don't mess with Muslims. It is something called 'brotherhood'. Other members can throw some light on 'brotherhood'.
> 
> This is my personal opinion.



I still think if they were targetting the West, it would be a stronger message if they carried out this act in Iraq or Afghanistan right under our noses. 

It a high probability they are targetting India and holding Western Hostage to get worldwide coverage. Also, since westerners don't go in the muslims "good" book, it is a bonus.


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## Black Stone

smeaglegolum said:


> Blackstone, you are also forgetting that Al-qaeda has targeted western interests around the world. Bali, Egypt, Spain, Britain, etc being some of the examples And now India.



Is Indian Mujahideen part of Al Q?


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## Captain03

its sad what is going on in mumbai but its nothing new
extremists have been trying to control the south asian region for a while but never successful


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## newlife

> Is Indian Mujahideen part of Al Q?




not officially......

IM not as big as Al Q...

Rest things are same in both of them...


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## newlife

> its said what is going on in mumbai but its nothing new
> extremists have been trying to control the south asian region for a while *but never successful*




never they will be...


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## Nihat

Black Stone said:


> Is Indian Mujahideen part of Al Q?



Indian Mujahiddien is not capable of this - what they did was put small home made low intensity bombs in crowded places and used IED to explode them and cause not very extensive damage , plus their group was busted by the Delhi Police.

This is definatly Al-Qaeda and Laskar-e-Taiba kind of group who have a depp rooted hatred for the West and since India is closest to their base hence they target Westerners in India , they don't give a **** if Indians Die in the process.


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## Black Stone

Nihat said:


> Indian Mujahiddien is not capable of this - what they did was put small home made low intensity bombs in crowded places and used IED to explode them and cause not very extensive damage , plus their group was busted by the Delhi Police.
> 
> This is definatly Al-Qaeda and Laskar-e-Taiba kind of group who have a depp rooted hatred for the West and since India is closest to their base hence they target Westerners in India , they don't give a **** if Indians Die in the process.



So are you saying a small boy is claiming a big boy's act?.


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## smeaglegolum

Black Stone said:


> Is Indian Mujahideen part of Al Q?



No, but they idolize Al-qaeda and OBL. Capturing of westerners is definitely to get worldwide attention. No doubt. We have to wait and see the real motives behind this.


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## TruthSeeker

Just heard the news about the attacks. My heartfelt condolences to the Indian forum members. The cruelty of these jihadi people is without limit. Innocent people minding their own business are just blown away. These jihadis all need to have a hellfire missile sent their way.


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## newlife

Mind it ......


many of our terrorist organizations are better and more intelligent than Al-quaida.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## smeaglegolum

*'Terrorists were looking for Brits, Americans'*
Press Trust Of India


TO SAFETY: A man carries a victim of a gun attack at the Chatrapati Shivaji Terminus in Mumbai.
Mumbai: British national Alex Chamberlain, who works for the Indian Premier League (IPL) in Mumbai, was in a restaurant at the Oberoi Hotel when he heard gunfire.
When terrorists stormed the building, he and a group of people were ushered into the kitchen. Chamberlain told Sky News that a waiter was shot in the arm.
"They (the terrorists) were talking about Britons and Americans specifically. They shot people completely unnecessarily," he said.
The group of about 30-40 people were then "marched up like sheep" by a "young guy with a sub-machine gun, who was about 22-23". The gunman then told people to stop and asked them to put their hands up. The attacker asked if any of the people were British or Americans.
My Indian friend told me 'don't be a hero' and tell him you're Italian and that kind of stuff'."
Chamberlain said he got to about the 18th floor of the hotel and there was a gunman below them, and there were gunshots above and smoke everywhere.
The Briton and another person managed to sneak out of a fire door "without the gunman seeing us", where they stayed for about 15 minutes.
"I phoned my girlfriend and told her I loved her and thought it would be the last time I would talk to anyone," Chamberlain said.
Chamberlain said he "slowly downstairs expecting to see somebody with a gun around the corner" but they had gone.


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## Niazi9

There goes the peace process. It's gonna be landslide election for the BJP next year and I can't blame the Indians for that. They are avergaing 3 terrorist attacks a month which is ridiculous. After Marriott in Islamabad they had no excuse for this type of an operation to happen on this scale. 

Is it me or is it a requirement for every High Level Indian cop to have a pot belly?


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## Imran Khan

newlife said:


> Mind it ......
> 
> 
> many of our terrorist organizations are better and more intelligent than Al-quaida.



aaaahhhhhh indian pride you have every thing better and intelligent then others even tarerrst


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## TruthSeeker

*"My Indian friend told me 'don't be a hero' and tell him you're Italian and that kind of stuff'."*

We want the Canadians to stay peaceful and lovable to the rest of the world. Then in a pinch, we "Americans" can be "North Americans". We will learn to practice taqiyya with the best of them. Ha!


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## newlife

imran khan said:


> aaaahhhhhh indian pride you have every thing better and intelligent then others even tarerrst





What can i say:::: 


If govt. bans them..they come up again with new name....


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## smeaglegolum

Attack Locations


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## HAIDER

What all this Deccan Rebel

Pic of one top guy of clan


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## newlife

5 top cops...
4 terrorists....
at least 78 civilians... 

dead


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## jeypore

Flintlock said:


> This is going to be the biggest terror attack in India's history. It is going to shake the entire country from inside out, and the fallout from this is going to be huge.



I 100% agree with you flint, This will change the mind set because this time around they have attack the elite of the society, and they will not stand for it. 

I for one is looking for the huge shake up of this terrorist bastards.


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## M_Saint

smeaglegolum said:


> Please no politics/conspiracy theories right now. It was his duty being an ATS to be there. They didn't do all this to kill the ATS cheif.



Condemning such heinous crime and praying for the departed/injured souls of innocents, I wanted to ask if any of these attacks (Be it U.S, UK, ISRO, SPAIN, PK & IND) wasn't used in painting Muslims as terrorists? Didn't ATS chief/High official busted Hindu terrorist cell recently? Moreover why shadowy groups like of Deccan Mujahidin, HUJI, JMB take blames from undisclosed locations? And how rational/judicial is to build any cases by such claims? And why on INDO/ISROs run Media people repeatedly point its fingers on Muslims based on such fallacy in the premise? If any of these questions can't be answered then can we discount all such 'Muslim annihilation conspiracy' since spinning on suspicious claims only spreads more suspicion, isn't it? And how on the world make someone a conspiracy theorist when he/she asks rational question of the above nature?

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## Halaku Khan

There are reports that the terrorists came by boat - boats with explosives in them have been found near the Gateway of India.


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## Captain03

TruthSeeker said:


> Just heard the news about the attacks. My heartfelt condolences to the Indian forum members. The cruelty of these jihadi people is without limit. Innocent people minding their own business are just blown away. These jihadis all need to have a hellfire missile sent their way.


my friend dont confuse them with jihadis
they are not jihadis because the "war" they are fighting is unjust and nowhere allowed in the quran.


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## EagleEyes

Kamran Akmal and Sohail Tanvir were in Mumbai for the Champions League. Geo has reported that they are safe and have escaped the area.


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## ejaz007

My condolences to all those affected by the terorist act. May Allah give the strength to the grieved families to bear this loss.

These kind of acts no matter where they happen should be condenmed in the strongest possible term.


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## ejaz007

*Over 80 killed in series of gun and grenade attacks in Indias financial hub: Mumbai under attack*

* Gunmen storm two police headquarters, luxury hotels, tourist resort, train station 
* Targeting Britons and Americans, holding hostages 
* Military deployed as gunfights continue

MUMBAI: Teams of heavily armed gunmen stormed luxury hotels, a popular tourist attraction and a crowded train station in at least seven attacks in Indias financial capital, killing 80 people including the Mumbai Anti-Terror Squad chief.

At least 250 people were wounded in the gun and grenade attacks, officials said.

Gunmen opened fire on two of the citys best-known luxury hotels, the Taj Mahal and the Oberoi. They attacked the crowded Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus station in southern Mumbai and Leopolds restaurant, a Mumbai landmark. They also attacked police headquarters in south Mumbai. 

Britons and Americans: The gunmen were specifically targeting Britons and Americans, media reports said, and are holding foreigners hostage, including European parliamentarians.

A British restaurant-goer at the Oberoi said the gunman spoke in Hindi or Urdu.

Military: Hours after the first attacks, AN Roy, a senior police officer, said police continued to battle the gunmen. Local television channels said the army had been deployed in the city and had begun moving into one of the hotels, the Oberoi. PTI news agency said seven foreign Indian Champions League cricket teams were scheduled to stay in the Taj Hotel. Pakistani cricketers Kamran Akmal and Sohail Tanveer told a Pakistani TV channel they were safe. agencies/daily times monitor

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## Halaku Khan

It appears that hostages are being held at the Taj Hotel, the Oberoi Hotel and at Nariman House (which contains a Jewish community center). 

There are two terrorists on the roof of the Taj Hotel right now. 

Some of the terrorists managed to escape in stolen vans and the license numbers are being publicized.

Hope these animals are caught alive.


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## nitesh

Just seen in TV, NSG commandos have entered Taj


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## ejaz007

A link I cam across on bbc:

BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Mumbai rocked by deadly shootings


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## TruthSeeker

*


Captain03 said:



my friend dont confuse them with jihadis
they are not jihadis because the "war" they are fighting is unjust and nowhere allowed in the quran.

Click to expand...

*
They believe they are "jihadis". They justify their actions based on the Quran and the Haddith. What should we call them then? There does not seem to be any Islamic authority on earth that can call them to task. They do not seem to respect even the ulema at Deoband.


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## shchinese

I hope all killed people would RIP and all other affect could get their normal lives back soon. Those terrorists should all be shot dead or put into jail for life. 

*However*, if you check what happened to those Muslims in India, you will see the biggest anti-human rights crimes systematically carried out by the current and past regime of India.


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## donrahul

shchinese said:


> I hope all killed people would RIP and all other affect could get their normal lives back soon. Those terrorists should all be shot dead or put into jail for life.
> 
> *However*, if you check what happened to those Muslims in India, you will see the biggest anti-human rights crimes systematically carried out by the current and past regime of India.



A chinese lecturing on human rights! I think the End is near..


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## Kharian_Beast

TruthSeeker said:


> They believe they are "jihadis". They justify their actions based on the Quran and the Haddith. What should we call them then? There does not seem to be any Islamic authority on earth that can call them to task. They do not seem to respect even the ulema at Deoband.



I wonder why then were you guys financing them throughout the 70,s 80s and 90s if they were at such extreme odds strategically and philosophically?

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## nitesh

Death toll increasing, some deccan mujahideen claiming the responsibility

Terror attacks in Mumbai; Six foreigners among 101 dead-India-The Times of India

They were looking for british and americans:
Attackers were looking for British, Americans, says witness-Mumbai-Cities-The Times of India


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## Kharian_Beast

donrahul said:


> A chinese lecturing on human rights! I think the End is near..



China has cleaned up it's act, what has India shown to the world? An attack of this magnitude would never happen in China. Seems to me this could be a product of domestic suppression.


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## shchinese

donrahul said:


> A chinese lecturing on human rights! I think the End is near..



the human rights protection in China is about 20 years more advanced than what you have in India. 

Let's just look at one stats, no more rubbish, just solid stats from respectful 3rd party organization:



> Literacy:
> 
> definition: age 15 and over can read and write
> total population: 61&#37;
> male: 73.4%
> *female: 47.8%* (2001 census)



https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/in.html

I tell you mate, discrimination against women in such scale is shocking. 

Again I don't want to go off topic too much, so I also present you how those muslims/Christians are abused in your country:

Religious violence in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anti-Christian violence in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

why they want to bomb population centers (which is 100% illegal), because they got treated so badly!


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## shchinese

now don't get me wrong, I do NOT support such terrorists. 

however, to really stop such attacks in the future, you need to think about the reasons why you saw such attacks so often in 2008 in India. there must be something wrong there with its laws, policies and the people. 

we Chinese have a lot of human rights issues, but we just acknowledge the fact. you can check all reports released by our government, what they say is "there are a lot of problems, but we are improving on all of them". we don't hide/deny problems. 

too much nationalism (e.g. "I am from India and thus everything in India must be great") gets you nowhere. you don't need such nationalism rubbish to make your history/culture/civilization a great one, as it is always a great one from day one.


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## TruthSeeker

*


Kharian_Beast said:



I wonder why then were you guys financing them throughout the 70,s 80s and 90s if they were at such extreme odds strategically and philosophically?

Click to expand...

*
KB, 
We agreed with them that the Soviets were godless. And the Soviets were attacking them in their homeland in an act of aggression. We help freedom fighters whenever it is feasible. However, you have to understand that we have such a thoroughly ingrained culture of separation of church (or mosque) and state that we did not appreciate that once in power they would behave so barbarically. We still have not come to terms with "freedom" fighters who believe in democracy for one vote and one vote only. The one that puts them in power. We are learning that there is a strong anti-democratic strain in Muslim theology.


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## fatman17

just joined in....

Very sad and very unfortunate what has happened. it must be condemned. the indian security authorities must eliminate these people!

...with extreme prejudice!


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## nitesh

Kharian_Beast said:


> China has cleaned up it's act, what has India shown to the world? An attack of this magnitude would never happen in China. Seems to me this could be a product of domestic suppression.



Isn't the same thing happening in Pakistan due to domestic suppression.

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## Halaku Khan

One terrorist has been arrested.

Apparently they came by sea from Karachi.

Terrorists in Hotel Oberoi have made a statement: 


> A militant holed up inside Mumbais Oberoi Hotel told India TV on Thursday that seven attackers were holding hostages inside the luxury establisment.
> 
> There are seven of us inside hotel Oberoi, the man identified as Sahadullah told India TV.
> 
> We want all Mujahideens held in India released and only after that we will release the people.
> 
> Release all the Mujahideens, and Muslims living in India should not be troubled, he said.


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## nitesh

RIP to the brave chief

A brave officer and a gentleman



> I woke up with some uneasiness at 2 am on November 27 without knowing that terrorists had struck Mumbai and instinctively switched on the BBC to hear the terrible news that Karkare fell to the bullets of a terrorist. In the TV footage of him, he appeared calm and collected as he put on the helmet and a bullet-proof jacket before chasing the terrorists, but his brave act of fighting the terrorists personally ended in tragedy. He will be remembered for his patriotism, courage and sacrifice, but he should also be remembered for the diplomatic battles he waged for India in the halls of the Vienna International Centre.


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## Logic note

shchinese said:


> now don't get me wrong, I do NOT support such terrorists.
> 
> however, to really stop such attacks in the future, you need to think about the reasons why you saw such attacks so often in 2008 in India. there must be something wrong there with its laws, policies and the people.
> 
> we Chinese have a lot of human rights issues, but we just acknowledge the fact. you can check all reports released by our government, what they say is "there are a lot of problems, but we are improving on all of them". we don't hide/deny problems.
> 
> too much nationalism (e.g. "I am from India and thus everything in India must be great") gets you nowhere. you don't need such nationalism rubbish to make your history/culture/civilization a great one, as it is always a great one from day one.



Just Cut the Crap 

WE Indians can critisize anything without being sent to jail .
but just look at your self I think someone must teach you that "I am from China and thus everything in China must be great" is more dangerous then other things .
Why dont you check why Uighers and Tibetans do such attacks in China , why falun Gong members are jailed , 
So Stop B*** S******g

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## Kharian_Beast

nitesh said:


> Isn't the same thing happening in Pakistan due to domestic suppression.



Suppression of foreign terrorism yes. Suppression of external fingering of internal disputes, yes. Suppression of minorities or law abiding communities no.

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## Kharian_Beast

By the way if I haven't made it clear...catch these guys alive, find their leadership...then spank them on camera followed by a de-bollocking.


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## nitesh

Kharian_Beast said:


> Suppression of foreign terrorism yes. Suppression of external fingering of internal disputes, yes. Suppression of minorities or law abiding communities no.



Oh these foreigners have come in and done so many things


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## nitesh

Kharian_Beast said:


> By the way if I haven't made it clear...catch these guys alive, find their leadership...then spank them on camera followed by a de-bollocking.



One guy got arrested it seems buddy let's see how it goes


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## nitesh

Times Now reporting that they are keeping a jewish family hostage


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## nitesh

so now they are coming out:

We want all Mujahideen released: Terrorist inside Oberoi-Mumbai-Cities-The Times of India

MUMBAI: A militant holed up inside Mumbai's Oberoi Hotel told a news channel on Thursday that seven attackers were holding hostages inside the
luxury establishment.

"There are seven of us inside hotel Oberoi," the man identified as Sahadullah told the channel. "We want all Mujahideens held in India released and only after that we will release the people."

"Release all the Mujahideens, and Muslims living in India should not be troubled," he said.

Fresh firing erupted early on Thursday in Taj hotel as commandoes moved in to flush out terrorists holding some foreigners hostage after a night of terror targeting ten places in Mumbai.

Army commandoes moved into the luxury Oberoi and the Taj Mahal hotels to flush out terrorists holed up hours after an unspecified number of heavily armed gunmen went on a rampage in ten places in South Mumbai killing 80 persons and taking some foreigners hostage.

Fire and smoke was seen billowing from the hotel as firemen struggled hard to rescue over 100 people still trapped inside.

Five suspected terrorists were killed in two separate incidents overnight including two during a gun battle in the country's iconic landmark Taj hotel, police said.

Maharashtra deputy chief minister R R Patil said nine suspected terrorists have been arrested. Schools and colleges were ordered to be closed.

Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh said five police officers including Anti Terrorism Squad chief Hemant Karkare were killed in one of the worst terror strikes in the country's financial capital that in all claimed the lives of at least 11 police personnel.

"The operation (by security forces) is still going on," he said. Besides army commandoes, naval commandos and Rapid Action force personnel joined in the operations to rescue those stranded in the two hotels. Five columns of Army and 200 NSG commandoes have been rushed. Two sten guns have been recovered by police so far, he added.

Deshmukh said it was not immediately known how many terrorists were involved in the audacious attack in ten places that shook the western metropolis. The chief minister said the Taj and Oberoi are not in control yet. He said there are no terrorists in Cama hospital which was also targeted by gunmen.

Police reported that some hostages were still being held at the Taj Mahal and Oberoi with eyewitnesses saying the gunmen had targeted foreigners after they kept shouting: "Who has US or UK passports?" Several guests were also stuck.

Fire was still raging in the old wing of Taj hotel several hours after it was rocked by five to six blasts and enormous clouds of black smoke rose from the century-old edifice on Mumbai's waterfront.


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## Neo

The terrorists obviously were after US and British citizens, now they have taken a jewish family.
Could this be AQ's entry into India?


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## nitesh

Neo said:


> The terrorists obviously were after US and British citizens, now they have taken a jewish family.
> Could this be AQ's entry into India?



Yup obviously after taking over our neighbours they are entering here too Neo.


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## Goodperson

nitesh said:


> Yup obviously after taking over our neighbours they are entering here too Neo.



Indian Secularism is under threat.


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## nitesh

CNN is reporting that Taj is freed now


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## nitesh

Goodperson said:


> Indian Secularism is under threat.



seems like some sense is coming:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Time_to_rise_above_politics_BJP/articleshow/3763257.cms
"It is a time of national crisis. The country has been challenged. It is time for us to rise above politics. There is no government side or opposition side. Our top leadership has decided to stand by all steps to defeat the forces who challenge our sovereignty," BJP Vice President Mukthar Abbas Naqvi said.


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## shchinese

Logic note said:


> Just Cut the Crap
> 
> WE Indians can critisize anything without being sent to jail .
> but just look at your self I think someone must teach you that "I am from China and thus everything in China must be great" is more dangerous then other things .
> Why dont you check why Uighers and Tibetans do such attacks in China ,



so what? we acknowledged all these problems.


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## Goodperson

Email was sent from Russia

Breaking news from TOI: Lashkar terrorist from Pakistan arrested in Mumbai; IB says terrorists came in from Pakistan


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## Neo

nitesh said:


> Yup obviously after taking over our neighbours they are entering here too Neo.



AQ's war against Pakistan is a fall out of Afghan War, they hate us for our support of US led WoT.

But AQ is a parasite that survives under certain circumstances. Supression of muslims happens to be one of them. Go figure...


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## Awesome

tyagi said:


> DUDE THEY WERE TAKING THEM HOSTAGE .MAY FOR SOME DEMAND


Please stop using caps for every second post. In internet lingo it is construed as shouting.


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## nitesh

Neo said:


> AQ's war against Pakistan is a fall out of Afghan War, they hate us for our support of US led WoT.
> 
> But AQ is a parasite that survives under certain circumstances. Supression of muslims happens to be one of them. Go figure...



So you are supporting in killing of muslims that is why they are against you right. The same OPPRESSION theory.


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## Neo

nitesh said:


> So you are supporting in killing of muslims that is why they are against you right. The same OPPRESSION theory.



Terrorists have no religion and yes I support killing of terrorists!


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## s90

Geo TV played the whole conversation with those terrorist by Indian media,listen to it everyone


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## nitesh

Neo said:


> Terrorists have no religion and yes I support killing of terrorists!



So exactly there is no OPPRESSION theory it is just nonsense killing. Terrorists have no religion. Let's put these to end here

CNN Watch: Taj Guest from London, being interviewed now and she has high praise for the hotel staff (like several other guests before her).


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## Kharian_Beast

Timothy Mcveigh was a devout militant Christian. His bombing method of OKC is used to this day by almost all terrorist organizations. Never have I heard the term Crusading Terrorist like I hear Islamic Fascist or Islamic Terrorist or Jihadi as if it is a new and mind boggling entity.

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## s90

"They came by sea" ?


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## s90

Kharian_Beast said:


> ..............



Agreed,CNN anchor used "hindu terrorist" only once


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## Logic note

shchinese said:


> so what? we acknowledged all these problems.



? dude what are you trying to say ?


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## s90

And i saw very biased reporting from BBC,CNN they were always suggesing and pointing fingers towards Pakistan


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## s90

*Cricket Australia suspends India travel following Mumbai attacks*

SYDNEY: Cricket Australia (CA) Thursday has told the Victorian and Western Australian sides, *participating in the Twenty20 Champions League* scheduled to begin next week, not to travel to India following the series of terrorist attacks in Mumbai.


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## nitesh

News coming in some US official got killed
US issued travel advisory


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## s90

*Mumbai attacks continuation of 1993 blasts*

NEW DELHI,: Opposition leader L.K. Advani on Thursday asked people to be calm and maintain communal harmony in the wake of the horrific terror 
attacks in Mumbai. 

Advani also told reporters that he planned to visit Mumbai shortly, perhaps later Thursday or Friday, along with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. 

"It is a challenge in which the whole country must remain clam and resolute and try to overcome it unitedly," the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) leader said, holding a clinched fist. 

Advani's comments came a day after terrorists sneaked into Mumbai overnight and struck at seven places in India's most audacious terror attack, leaving at least 101 people dead and 250 injured. On Thursday, some terrorists too lay dead while others had taken hold of hostages. 

Advani said security experts had told him that an operation of this kind "will need a preparation of at least two months". 

"This appears to be a continuation of the (19)93 terror attacks," he said, referring to Mumbai's first terror onslaught in January of that year that followed the razing of the Babri mosque in Ayodhya in December 1992. 

"I had earlier thought of going (to Mumbai) in the morning but I was told that the state government wishes that such visits will only be helpful once the operations are over. In the meanwhile, I have spoken to PM... The PM said I go along with him and I agreed. 

"So far as tackling terrorism is concerned, both the central and state governments have a lot to answer for. But today is not the occasion for me to dwell on that." 

Advani paid his condolences to the police officers killed fighting terrorists in Mumbai.


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## nitesh

finally politicians are talking sense



> "So far as tackling terrorism is concerned, both the central and state governments have a lot to answer for. But today is not the occasion for me to dwell on that."


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## nitesh

20 Israelis missing

Report: Mumbai Terrorists Abducted Chabad Rabbi's Family - Jewish World - Israel News - Israel National News


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## s90

I was surprised at the pace the events were taking place last nite,never saw anything like that

Mostly cowardly acts like planting bomb or suicide attacks are used by these people but this was almost a invasion!


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## nitesh

CNN-IBN reporting that 20 to 25 'naval commandos' engaged the terrorists at the Trident early in the morning and this enabled around 300 guests to escape. One commando died in this operation.


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## s90

*Mumbai situation being dealt as &#8216;war-time emergency&#8217;: Sriprakash Jaiswal*

NEW DELHI: The government on Thursday equated the Mumbai terror attacks to a "war" thrust upon the nation 
and vowed to give a "befitting" reply to 
the perpetrators. 

"We are considering the terrorists attack in Mumbai as a war and dealing the situation like war-time emergency," union minister of state for home Sriprakash Jaiswal told reporters in the capital. 

Jaiswal said all necessary action was being taken to get to the bottom of the incident and arrest the perpetrators of the heinous crime. 

"We want to assure people that a befitting reply will be given to the terrorists," he said. 

"The Prime Minister (Manmohan Singh) himself has been monitoring the situation since last night and is constantly in touch with the Chief Minister (Vilasrao Deshmukh)," he said. 

Jaiswal said apart from the 200 National Security Guard commandos, those from Navy and Army were also deployed in Mumbai. 

"Firing at a few places is still continuing and we hope that everything will be over very soon," he said. 

Asked about who were behind the terror attacks, the Minister said it was too early to say anything at present.


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## third eye

Having failed to make any fresh attacks in US / UK, India is found to be an easy place to carry out such attacks which give immense publicity value to the perpetrators.

This will, I hope shake the Govts ( both state & central ) out of their complacency & formulate a national policy on security which would if necessary over ride regional / religious barriers and issues puting the nation before everything else.


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## Goodperson

third eye said:


> Having failed to make any fresh attacks in US / UK, India is found to be an easy place to carry out such attacks which give immense publicity value to the perpetrators.
> 
> This will, I hope shake the Govts ( both state & central ) out of their complacency & formulate a national policy on security which would if necessary over ride regional / religious barriers and issues puting the nation before everything else.



Quote from newsmedia -

"They are successful and we have failed," said the police officer with the agency. He said these attacks show that "the terrorists want to show that India is an unsafe place to do business in. The way they have focused on foreigners, they want to make Mumbai unattractive for foreign nationals."

One of the notifiable thing is that some terrorist have been captured alive hence information is coming out fast soon it will be clear whether Neo's hint is true or not.


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## ejaz007

Although its not the right time to ask but one has to think that isn't it the failure of the Indian security/intelligence agencies.

A substantial number of people armed with weapons enter the financial hub and carry out this act where and what were the intelligence agencies doing.

Also is it going to be the repetition of what happened after parliament attack? Are we going to see another standoff between India and Pakistan?


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## s90

I mean terrorist attacks happened both in India-Pakistan but i never saw this type of thing and also keeping in mind that its Mumbai not Srinagar





[


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## Nihat

ejaz007 said:


> Although its not the right time to ask but one has to think that isn't it the failure of the Indian security/intelligence agencies.
> 
> A substantial number of people armed with weapons enter the financial hub and carry out this act where and what were the intelligence agencies doing.
> 
> Also is it going to be the repetition of what happened after parliament attack? Are we going to see another standoff between India and Pakistan?



Of course it is a failure , a big one @ that - AK-47 , grenades , possible bazokas - how did all this come in.

Plus , I don't think a military standoff makes much sense , we have to eliminate the local support , all these youngsters did not come from Pak I think.

If we must destroy cross border targets , it can be done without using the military.


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## satishkumarcsc

Mumbai has become a favourite target for terrorists.

This is the 15th terror attack on the financial capital of India since the year 1993 and this makes the city the highest victim of terror strikes.

An IB dossier states that Mumbai is the most vulnerable to terror strikes while Delhi [Images] and Hyderabad are second and third respectively. It was not as though that there was no warning that Mumbai would be struck again.

After accomplishing operation Bangalore, Ahmedabad [Images] and Delhi, there was a specific warning by the Intelligence Bureau that Mumbai would be next on the hit list.

Commissioner of Police, Mumbai city, Hassan Gafoor had said during a press conference that the interrogation conducted on the Indian Mujahideen [Images] cadres in September too had revealed that there was a plan to attack Mumbai next.

Although it is too early to comment as to who could have carried out the blasts, the IB says that it was surely an act of terror considering the fact that AK-47 rifles were used and the attack was serial in nature. The Supreme Court of India in the S K Shukla vs State of Uttar Pradesh [Images] case in the year 2003 had classified both the Ak-47 and AK-56 as weapons of mass destruction and also observed that using it ( apart from security agencies) would be an act of terror.

Although Mumbai was waiting to be attacked, the manner in which the strikes were carried out has completely foxed both the police and intelligence bureau officials. The IB says that the guns were used to carry out a terror strike intentionally as it was expected that such an operation would catch security agencies off guard.

The IB says that terror outfits have been constantly improvising the manner in which they undertake attacks in order to fox investigating and security agencies.

The IB however adds that it is too early to pin point as to who could have carried out the attack. Mumbai has been a favourite destination for terrorists since it is the financial capital of the country and any attack on this place will automatically shake the economy of the country. 

Mumbai was warned about terror


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## Chanakya.10

According to CNNIBN the boys have punjabi accent, and the boats captured with explosives, have Karachi based papers......dont know wats goin on.....

Do our Pakistani counterparts think that we were behind marriot blasts????

This is just a thought, plz dont fume...............

Terrorist lunatics can think like that...........


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## s90

^ dont know but in the end people like u and me end up becoming victims of these secret wars(if its true)


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## Chanakya.10

I dont know the consequences, but i think the time has come that we take the responsibility of eliminating terrorist scanturies anywhere that are going to harm our interests, whether inside or outside.................. Enough of peace and calm down and bearing all this pain and agony every fortnight........ We are peace loving people but not cowards........

Let us give them the taste of their own cake.........


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## Chanakya.10

England's cricket tour of India cancelled following Mumbai terror attacks.	

England's ongoing tour cancelled


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## Flintlock

This is an international conspiracy guys. This isn't your average joe terror attack.


----------



## Chanakya.10

"It is a time of national crisis. The country has been challenged. It is time for us to rise above politics. There is no government side or opposition side. Our top leadership has decided to stand by all steps to defeat the forces who challenge our sovereignty," BJP Vice President Mukthar Abbas Naqvi said.


----------



## Chanakya.10

Flintlock said:


> This is an international conspiracy guys. This isn't your average joe terror attack.



Yup absolutely right..........

I think this will ultimately lead India to join WoT in Afghanistan, and yanks and israeli ambition will be fulfilled........


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## Chanakya.10

Due to foreign nationals and Indian industry being targetted, it will prompt India to save its image, and, the US might give it's link to Afghanistan or NWFP, and ask India to join it's WoT.................This is what i can digest at the moment.......


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## nitesh

Chanakya.10 said:


> Yup absolutely right..........
> 
> I think this will ultimately lead India to join WoT in Afghanistan, and yanks and israeli ambition will be fulfilled........



Don't talk nonsense now. What is this


----------



## su-47

India has its own wars to fight. The attack on Mumbai shows just how unprepared our anti-terrorism forces are. The capture of the indian mujahideen in delhi a few months back is a distant memory now. 

we have to take a proactive than reactive role in fighting terrorism. some freedoms will have to be compromised for security, but its high time we take terrorism as our no 1 threat and do whatever it takes to eliminate it.


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## s90

^what u indians think about that gunman's conversation to indian media by phone?


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## Chanakya.10

nitesh said:


> Don't talk nonsense now. What is this



This is just a conspiracy theory, and my thought, how do u think those bunch of kids, can carry out army level sophistication encounters, with such precision..........
and why especially r they looking for foreign nationals only????
If they were local groups, they would have been happy killing locals only.....

Cant u c the difference between the attacks in Delhi by Indian Mujjaheddin and attacks in Mumbai by the Deccan Mujjaheddin??????

Same type of people, same training, how come so much difference in attack tactics and scale?????????????????

Coz things are not that simple as they might appear always.........


----------



## nitesh

Chanakya.10 said:


> This is just a conspiracy theory, and my thought, how do u think those bunch of kids, can carry out army level sophistication encounters, with such precision..........
> and why especially r they looking for foreign nationals only????
> If they were local groups, they would have been happy killing locals only.....
> 
> Cant u c the difference between the attacks in Delhi by Indian Mujjaheddin and attacks in Mumbai by the Deccan Mujjaheddin??????
> 
> Same type of people, same training, how come so much difference in attack tactics and scale?????????????????



I am pointing towards your ranting towards US and Israel don't talk like moron that they are killing there own citizens to get India on board


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## smeaglegolum

Latest news

Terrorists were in touch with Karachi via satphones

Sheela Bhatt in New Delhi | November 27, 2008 | 11:44 IST

According to highly reliable intelligence sources, two boatfuls of weapons and some 18-20 terrorists most likely came from Karachi in Pakistan.
Intelligence agencies are zeroing in on the Lashkar-e-Tayiba as the agency behind the terror attacks.

The initial interrogation of terrorists captured in Mumbai has yielded some basic information. According to sources, for some time the directions kept coming "live" to the terrorists in Mumbai via satellite phones.

The intelligence sources said information is coming out quite rapidly&#65533; because some six terrorists, who are in the custody of the Mumbai police,&#65533;are under interrogation right now. He said the entire operation was led by Pakistani operators of the LeT but he doesn't rule out&#65533;the involvement of some local youngsters in it.

"They are successful and we have failed," said the police officer with the agency. He said these attacks show that "the terrorists want to show that India is an unsafe place to do business in. The way they have focused on foreigners, they want to make Mumbai unattractive for foreign nationals."

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## smeaglegolum

Looks like there is a foreign hand behind these. We should eliminate such hands once and for all.


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## Chanakya.10

s90 said:


> ^what u indians think about that gunman's conversation to indian media by phone?



Television footage showed some terrorists, wearing dark colour T-shirts and holding automatic rifles, near some of the buildings under attack. One of them, who called himself Shahadullah, telephoned the India TV channel from Oberoi-Trident Hotel, which too was stormed, to claim that he was from the Indian city of Hyderabad but he spoke in Hindustani with what appeared to be a Pakistani accent.

He told the channel that the attack had been carried out to avenge the 1992 razing of the Babri mosque in Ayodhya and the "persecution" of Muslims in India. He demanded the release of jailed Indian Mujahideen militants in exchange for tourists taken hostage at the Taj and Oberoi Trident hotels as well as Nariman House in the heart of the city.

The man ended the telephonic conversation saying "Allah Hafiz".

101 killed, security forces battle terrorists in Mumbai - Sify.com


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## s90

*Mumbai strike similar to Akshardham Temple attack: Police*

AHMEDABAD: The Gujarat Police on Thursday said the Mumbai terror strike was similar to the Akshardham Temple attack of 2002, and they are carrying 
out checks and searches as a precautionary measure. 

"We are conducting checks at all the major five-star hotels in the state. Hotel authorities have been asked to tighten the security around their premises and keep their public announcement systems in proper condition," Joint Police Commissioner Ashish Bhatia, who is heading the probe into July 26 serial blasts here, said. 

The government had last night sounded high alert following the terror strikes in Mumbai in which at least 100 people have been killed so far. 

"The five-star hotel authorities have been asked to keep their CCTV system on and record all the activities in and around the premises. Big malls have also been asked to stay alert and beef up security," Bhatia said. 

"The police are conducting searches at major check points in the city and also at the borders connecting the state with Maharashtra," he added. 

Bhatia said the Mumbai terror attack was similar to the one at the Akshardham Temple in Gandhinagar in 2002 where 34 people were killed and 81 injured when two Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorists opened fire with automatic weapons and lobbed hand grenades inside the shrine. 

According to Bhatia, the modus operandi of the terrorists in Mumbai was similar to LeT operatives. It is suspected by security agencies that LeT, with the support of locals, may have carried out the attacks in the financial capital, he added.


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## Chanakya.10

smeaglegolum said:


> Latest news
> 
> Terrorists were in touch with Karachi via satphones
> 
> Sheela Bhatt in New Delhi | November 27, 2008 | 11:44 IST
> 
> According to highly reliable intelligence sources, two boatfuls of weapons and some 18-20 terrorists most likely came from Karachi in Pakistan.
> Intelligence agencies are zeroing in on the Lashkar-e-Tayiba as the agency behind the terror attacks.
> 
> The initial interrogation of terrorists captured in Mumbai has yielded some basic information. According to sources, for some time the directions kept coming "live" to the terrorists in Mumbai via satellite phones.
> 
> The intelligence sources said information is coming out quite rapidly&#65533; because some six terrorists, who are in the custody of the Mumbai police,&#65533;are under interrogation right now. He said the entire operation was led by Pakistani operators of the LeT but he doesn't rule out&#65533;the involvement of some local youngsters in it.
> 
> "They are successful and we have failed," said the police officer with the agency. He said these attacks show that "the terrorists want to show that India is an unsafe place to do business in. The way they have focused on foreigners, they want to make Mumbai unattractive for foreign nationals."



And stiil our Pakistani friends would think that we are just ranting about ISI and LeT......


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## s90

Chanakya.10 said:


> And stiil our Pakistani friends would think that we are just ranting about ISI and LeT......



Just like our Indian friends were quick to blame ISI for Samjota express but in real it was found out that it was India's own internal problems.


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## nitesh

TOI breaking News

All people trapped in Taj hotel in Mumbai rescued; no hostage-like situation there right now, says DGP A N Roy; 200 more NSG commandos being sent to Mumbai: NSG spokesperson; five terrorists killed, one captured in Mumbai, says Maharashtra Deputy CM R R Patil; six foreigners among 101 dead


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## Chanakya.10

s90 said:


> Just like our Indian friends were quick to blame ISI for Samjota express but in real it was found out that it was India's own internal problems.



My dear friend, it has not yet been proved, all speculation was just the commonality of use of RDX....nothing else.......... The police later rectified it...... and the person behind Samjhota blast is still in jail...........

And the Indian Agencies have proof of Karachi connection.... They are not just blantaly saying it........ but the LeT is under speculation, of which there is no proof yet........


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## s90

Chanakya.10 said:


> My dear friend, it has not yet been proved, all speculation was just the commonality of use of RDX....nothing else.......... The police later rectified it...... and the person behind Samjhota blast is still in jail...........
> 
> And the indian Agencies have proof of Karachi connection.... They are not just blantaly saying it........ but the LeT is under speculation, of which there is no proof yet........



They always bluntly say it or not but dont come up with proof in end


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## smeaglegolum

Mumbai attackers may be Pakistani nationals

MUMBAI: Preliminary investigations on Thursday pointed to involvement of at least some Pakistani nationals in the serial terror attacks in Mumbai 

that left over 100 dead and 270 others injured. 

"There are indications that the perpetrators of the crime, who arrived in Mumbai by boats, are Pakistani nationals," authoritative sources said. 

The indications are based on information gathered from captured terrorists, the sources said. 

Maharashtra deputy chief minister R R Patil, who also holds the Home portfolio, said revealing detailed information on the terror strikes could prove detrimental at this juncture. 

"We have total clues. But disclosing information would not help the case," Patil said. "This is an attack on the country. We will disclose information at an appropriate time," he said. 

Meanwhile, there are reports that Colaba police have impounded four boats allegedly used by the terrorists to reach the Mumbai coast.


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## s90

(Intelligence failure)

*Govt warned of terrorists' entry to city through sea: Police*

ALIBAUG (MAHARASHTRA): Intelligence reports had warned that there could be a possible entry of terrorists into Mumbai through the sea route, a top 
police official claimed. 

"This intelligence was available six months ago and subsequently a barge was found by the locals on Shrivardhan coast in Raigad district four months back," the official, who did not wish to be identified, said. 

Locals feared that the barge might have contained explosives but nothing was found when customs and naval personnel inspected it. 

The terrorists, who created havoc in Mumbai overnight, came by boats, chief minister Vilasrao Deshmukh has said.


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## Chanakya.10

s90 said:


> They always bluntly say it or not but dont come up with proof in end



This time you will get the proofs as well my friend....... have patience.....


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## s90

Chanakya.10 said:


> This time you will get the proofs as well my friend....... have patience.....



yeh yeh. 

Maybe its ISI answer to marriot bombings  because in both foreigners and high value targets are attacked

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## Chanakya.10

s90 said:


> yeh yeh.Maybe its ISI answer to marriot bombings



*I hope not...... *Coz if it is....... God save ISI and Pakistan.....


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## smeaglegolum

This boat which is on the run towards pakistani waters according to TV sources. This boat is suspected to carry the terrosrists to Mumbai

MP Alpha is being chased on high seas, suspected to be involved.
IN and Coastguard involved.
Seems to 200 miles away. 

Courtesy-Star News


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## s90

Chanakya.10 said:


> *I hope not...... *Coz if it is....... God save ISI and Pakistan.....



Its maybe warning to Indians to dont step out of line and dont meddle with PK from west because we can bring to a big indian city to a halt easily


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## nitesh

nope it is MA Alpha registered in vietnam


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## Munir

Chanakya.10 said:


> According to CNNIBN the boys have punjabi accent, and the boats captured with explosives, have Karachi based papers......dont know wats goin on.....
> 
> Do our Pakistani counterparts think that we were behind marriot blasts????
> 
> This is just a thought, plz dont fume...............
> 
> Terrorist lunatics can think like that...........



I think terrorist are of the same level as idio ts that point fingers without waiting for real objective results. Asking not others to fume was the most stupid part of this post...


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## Chanakya.10

Munir said:


> I think terrorist are of the same level as idio ts that point fingers without waiting for real objective results. _*Asking not others to fume was the most stupid part of this post...*_



It was written to stop replies like this...... but alas!!!! it failed!!!!

And Sir plz.... These are media reports, not my personal allegations......


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## fatman17

*Coordinated nature of Mumbai shootings points to shadowy Islamist *

Gethin Chamberlain 

guardian.co.uk, Wednesday November 26 2008 20.40 GMT 

With India in the grip of a wave of terrorist attacks that have claimed more than 200 lives already this year, it was only a question of when, rather than if, Mumbai would be hit.

*Despite claims by India's security forces to have rounded up many of those involved in the wave of bombings that struck Delhi in September, there appeared to be little national confidence that the killings were at an end.*

It was only on Sunday that the Indian prime minister, Manmohan Singh  announcing the formation of a task force to tackle terrorism - warned of the scale of the threat facing the country.

"I only wish to emphasise here that time is not on our side," he said. "We cannot afford a repetition of the kind of terrorist attacks that have recently taken place in Delhi, Hyderabad, Bangalore, Mumbai, Ahmedabad, Surat, Guwahati and some other urban centres."

Although tonight's killings involved gunmen rather than the bombs used in the earlier attacks, the degree of co-ordination involved points to the same hand at work.

*The most obvious suspect will be a group calling itself the Indian Mujahideen, an offshoot of the banned SIMI (the Students Islamic Movement).*

It claimed responsibility for the bombings in Delhi, Bangalore, Jaipur and Ahmedabad and following the Delhi bombings it issued an explicit threat that Mumbai would be next.

*In an email  its favoured method of communication  it accused the ciy's anti-terrorism squad of harassing Muslims.*

*"You should know that your acts are not at all left unnoticed; rather we are closely keeping an eye on you and just waiting for the proper time to execute your bloodshed," the email warned. "You are already on our hit-list and this time very very seriously."*

One name that will be at the forefront of the investigators' minds is that of Abdul Subhan Qureshi, also known as Tauqeer, a Mumbai-educated member of the Indian Mujahideen credited with masterminding several of the previous attacks.

Reports from India's intelligence agencies claim he has been able to use his expertise as a computer engineer to stay one step ahead of his pursuers and to coordinate attacks.

His name also cropped up in the investigation into a series of bombings in Assam, with intelligence agencies claiming to have intercepted several congratulatory emails.

He first came to the attention of the authorities after the 206 train bombings in Mumbai and was suspected of involvement in the Ahmedabad and Delhi attacks.

Figures from India's home ministry show that there have been 64 bomb attacks in the space of six months, killing more than 215 people and injuring 900.

Mumbai itself has been a regular target for terrorists since 1993, with six major attacks since then.

In July 2006 200 people were killed and more than 700 injured in bomb attacks on the city's Western Railway line. Seven bombs exploded within minutes of each other.

In August 2003 46 people died in two explosions and in March 2003 a series of bomb blasts killed 257 people and injured about 700. In that attack the terrorists also targeted hotels, along with the Bombay Stock Exchange, theatres, and a number of other sites. 

In the aftermath of the other recent attacks, security sources suggested that both Pakistan and Bangladesh had played a part in assisting the bombers and it seems likely that investigators will again look at possible links with those countries to the latest attacks.

Following the Delhi bombs in September Muslims protested in the national capital, blaming SIMI and demanding that Pakistan abstain from involvement in terrorism in India.

*India frequently blames Pakistan for involvement in terrorist activity on its territory, particularly in the contested region of Jammu and Kashmir.*

*However, the Indian authorities have also acknowledged that the country has its own home-grown terrorist problem.*

Maoist Naxalite insurgents have grip on large swathes of the country  one estimate suggests they are active in 55 per cent of the landmass  and are fighting a long-running and bitter war which has claimed thousands of lives.

On Sunday the prime minister described the Naxalites as the "most serious internal security threat" facing India today.

*He warned a conference of the country's most senior police officers that "the inability of intelligence agencies and the police to obtain pinpoint and actionable intelligence on time has enabled these outfits to carry out some high-profile attacks."*


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## genmirajborgza786

Flintlock said:


> This is an international conspiracy guys. This isn't your average joe terror attack.






Chanakya.10 said:


> Yup absolutely right..........
> 
> I think this will ultimately lead India to join WoT in Afghanistan, and yanks and israeli ambition will be fulfilled........



Possible, i mean just look at the sophistication of this attack can a handfull of never before heard terrorist this deccan mujahideen pull this kind of well Co-ordinated attack remember after all india does have an uneasy nature due to its non alignment policy of the past to suddenly jump in the band weagon openly with the U.S.


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## nitesh

L^^
Oh no not this again
So US is killing it's own citizens you guys are saying. Oh common now.


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## Chanakya.10

nitesh said:


> L^^
> Oh no not this again
> So US is killing it's own citizens you guys are saying. Oh common now.



As reported there are no American casualities till now sir....


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## nitesh

Chanakya.10 said:


> As reported there are no American casualities till now sir....



I had seen Times Now reporting 2 US casualties ok.


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## s90

smeaglegolum said:


> This boat which is on the run towards pakistani waters according to TV sources. This boat is suspected to carry the terrosrists to Mumbai
> 
> MP Alpha is being chased on high seas, suspected to be involved.
> IN and Coastguard involved.
> Seems to 200 miles away.
> 
> Courtesy-Star News



Errr do India have a Navy? 

Because this type of news looks nonsense to me


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## Chanakya.10

s90 said:


> Errr do India have a Navy?
> 
> Because this type of news looks nonsense to me





What do u mean?????

U want us to show to u?????


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## Imran Khan

Chanakya.10 said:


> What do u mean?????
> 
> U want us to show to u?????



first show these 20 tarerrsts then 1mn pak forces


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## s90

Chanakya.10 said:


> What do u mean?????
> 
> U want us to show to u?????



Mean its not easy for a terrorists to land in super big city like Mumbai with a boat,where were the coast gaurds?and now they running away to Karachi as if Indian Navy just woke up this morning for the chase.


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## smeaglegolum

nitesh said:


> nope it is MA Alpha registered in vietnam



Information on MV Alpha



> *Port Qasim shipping activity report*
> KARACHI, Nov 7 (APP): Shipping activity remained active at the Port where three ships scheduled to load, offload containers and palm oil were berthed at Qasim International Container Terminal and Multipurpose Terminal respectively on Thursday.
> 
> Meanwhile another container ship also got anchored at outer anchorage of Port Qasim during last 24 hours.
> 
> Berth occupancy was maintained at the Port at 60% on Thursday where a total of six ships C.V Dubai Express, C.V CMA CGM Sambhar, M.V Karavador, M.V Kolocep, M.T DL Clover and M.T St. Kitts were occupying berths to load, offload containers, wheat, palm oil, LPG and Iron are respectively during the report period.
> 
> A cargo volume of 55,443 tonnes comprising 38,954 tonnes import cargo and 16,489 tonnes export cargo inclusive of containerized cargo 2,453 Containers (TEUs) was handled at the Port during last 24 hours.
> 
> Three ships M.T St.Kitts, M.V Sari and M.T DL Clover sailed out to sea during last 24 hours while three more ships C.V Dubai Express, C.V CMA CGM Sambhar and M.V karavador are expected to sail on Friday.
> 
> A total of five ships C.V Saudi Diriyah, C.V AI-Manakh, M.V Maria, M.T Royal Aqua and M.V Bison Express carrying container, wheat, palm oil and Live Cattle are expected to take berths at container Terminal and Multipurpose Terminal respectively on Friday, while three more ships M.r AI-Salam-II, M.T Sulawesi Palm and *M.V Alpha Afovos* with diesel oil, palm oil and Coke are due to arrive at Port Qasim on same day.


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## smeaglegolum

Update from Newa

*Navy helicopters are chasing a ship, which is believed to have dropped terrorists near Bombay. Navy Chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta is closely monitoring the situation.*


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## s90

An Italian national was among around 100 people killed in the attacks on hotels and other targets in the Indian financial capital Mumbai, the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs said on Thursday.


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## dr.umer

R.I.P

A very sad incident indeed. Indian authorities must eliminate these terrorists.


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## shchinese

first of all, may all innocent people killed by those low life terrorists RIP. 

*shocking, shocking, shocking*

*the nuclear armed India which operates aircraft carriers are using WWII weapons for anti-terrorism. see the photo below. *

my hats off to all your servicemen who are now fighting those terrorists in Mumbai, however I have the concerns on *how these great souls got treated by the current regime of India*. The rich people stay in that 5 star hotel while the poor are fighting terrorists using such WWII rifle, wtf! Have a look at the following photo, they are not sniper rifle, just some entry level WWII rifle. 

Please also look at those servicemen on the front line of anti-terrorism. *what kind of gears they received to protect themselves? nothing! *



shocking! shocking! shocking! when billions of dollars are being spending to buy aircraft carriers from foreign countries, the current regime of India refuse to provide the very basic body protection gears for their own servicemen. *tell me why you ignore the safety of your own servicemen while posing threats to your neighbors? you can afford aircraft carriers, so you must be able to afford those bullet proof gears. *

now have a look at how my family's tax money got spent on our servicemen. *we don't have aircraft carriers in operation, we don't have any plan to get one in service.*



*stop putting big $$$ on aircraft carriers which can only be used for offensive missions. spend more money to honor the lives and safety of your servicemen.*

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
to all Indian nationalists here: here we are talking about the safety of your servicemen, they are the people who deserve to be get those gears, but why billions of dollars are spent on aircraft carriers but not on their safety? because the current regime of India doesn't honor your servicemen and their safety.

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## sunny_aus

*Terror attack planned by Lashkar*


*New Delhi: Ten people reportedly sneaked into Mumbai via the sea route from Karachi and carried out a pre-planned and well-orchestrated strike in India under the aegis of the dreaded Lashkar-e-Taiba militant outfit.*

A report on Times Now quoted intelligence agencies as saying that the timing of the terror attack coincided with efforts at peace talks between the newly elected regime in Pakistan and the authorities in India.

The militants reportedly used speed-boats to get from the coast of Karachi to Mumbai and then spread out into the southern part of the city and spread mayhem around the central business district by storming two major hotels and opening indiscriminate fire at several places. 

The report quoted the intelligence agencies as saying that this information came from one of the captured terrorists after last night's heist in India's financial capital that saw more than 87 people lose their lives and 200 being injured with a few hostage dramas continuing for nearly 12 hours. 

The report also said that there was no group called the Deccan Mujahideen and the e-mail has been traced back to a fictitious IP address in Russia. It said that the hawkish elements in Pakistan stage-managed this terror attacks to coincide with the visit of Pakistan's Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi, who was to visit Chandigarh today in the company of his Indian counterpart Pranab Mukherjee, a trip that has since been cancelled. 


Terror attack planned by Lashkar - National News ? News ? MSN India - News


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## smeaglegolum

Shchinese Id**t refrain from posting stupid posts here. You worry about your chinese brothers.


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## dr.umer

*Shadowy Mujahadeen target Hindu-Muslim divide​*
27 Nov 2008

The spectacular terrorist attacks in Mumbai are the latest in a series of assaults that are straining relations between Hindus and Muslims and threatening to aggravate tensions between India and Pakistan.

While no one is certain yet exactly who is responsible, one possible suspect is the Indian Mujahedeen, a group that emerged about a year ago.

It has claimed responsibility for a series of previous attacks, including one in the city of Ahmedabad on July 26 in which the attackers caused an explosion in the city's crowded old quarter, then set off car bombs at the hospitals where victims were being taken. Another attack in the Rajasthani city of Jaipur took 60 lives in May. Some of the bombs were carried on bicycles.

The group has typically sent e-mails to news organizations giving just a few minutes warning before its attacks. They claim to be driven by various injustices to Muslims, such as attacks on Muslim residents of Ahmedabad in 2002.

Little is known about the group that reportedly took responsibility for yesterday's attacks, the Deccan Mujahedeen. 

The Deccan Plateau is a huge terrain covering much of southern India. 

But there is speculation it may have links to the Indian Mujahedeen. That group, in turn, has been linked to the Students' Islamic Movement of India, or SIMI, which the Indian government outlawed in 2001.

In an account this fall, which was questioned by a skeptical Indian media, police said that Indian Mujahedeen had recruited disgruntled Muslims from north India, enlisting them from a region known for providing criminals for the Mumbai mafia.

In recent months, the mysterious attackers have hit centres from Delhi to Bangalore to Surat, claiming more than 200 lives this year. India's Home Ministry reports that there have been 64 bomb attacks in the past six months alone. 

As recently as Sunday, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was calling for urgent action against the terrorist threat. "I only wish to emphasize here that time is not on our side," he said.

Most of the attacks have been against so-called soft targets such as markets and religious sites. 

Yesterday's attacks differed from the others in that the attackers singled out two luxury hotels frequented by foreigners, seeking out foreign nationals and reportedly taking some hostage in an apparent attempt to terrorize overseas visitors and perhaps disrupt India's booming trade with the outside world.

It was also much more sophisticated than most previous attacks. While earlier attackers usually used crude improvised explosives, these ones had automatic weapons and grenades.

"You have a huge group of dedicated gunners who have been trained to go into these hotels," said Reva Bhalla, an expert with the private intelligence company Stratfor. 

"These things take a lot of co-ordination. They were very well armed and they had a plan."

The attack recalled an assault by Kashmiri militants armed with automatic weapons on the Indian parliament in New Delhi in 2001.

The Mumbai attacks are bound to strain Hindu-Muslim relations as Hindus blame Muslims and Muslims complain they are being unfairly accused of harbouring extremist sympathies.

India's roughly 150 million Muslims often complain that they are second-class citizens, most of them poor and many discriminated against by their Hindu neighbours. But so far, few have gravitated to the cause of international jihad.

The nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party, or BJP, has accused the coalition government, led by Mr. Singh's Congress Party, of being soft on terrorism. 

BJP politicians and other Hindu nationalists often argue that Muslims are conspiring to take over or undermine the predominantly Hindu country.

In fact, at least some of the terrorists appear to be Hindu. This month, police arrested 10 Hindus associated with a group, New India, suspected of plotting one bombing.

The Mumbai attacks are also expected to aggravate relations between India and Pakistan, which have fought three wars since gaining independence from Britain in 1947. India blames most terrorist attacks on militant groups based in Pakistan or Bangladesh. 

When a suicide bomber killed 41 people in an attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul in June, India said that Pakistan's spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence agency, was to blame.


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## shchinese

smeaglegolum said:


> Shchinese Id**t refrain from posting stupid posts here. You worry about your chinese brothers.



pure nationalism gets you nowhere. 

you are comfortably sitting in your home in the US, while your poor brothers are fighter terrors using those WWII rifles. at the same time, the current regime of India are spending big $$$ on aircraft carriers which even Japan/Korea (the biggest two ship builders in the world) doesn't have one.

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## smeaglegolum

shchinese said:


> pure nationalism gets you nowhere.
> 
> you are comfortably sitting in your home in the US, while your poor brothers are fighter terrors using those WWII rifles. at the same time, the current regime of India are spending big $$$ on aircraft carriers which even Japan/Korea (the biggest two ship builders in the world) doesn't have one.



This is not time for comparisons. If you want to do open a different thread and do there. Don't bring off topics here.


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## cqjjccwj

Support for India! Must eliminate these terrorists&#65281;


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## s90

I never even saw these type of guns in PK 



> Terror attack planned by Lashkar



They dont look like Jihadis,clean shave wearing western clothes

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## dr.umer

*Europe plans to send plane to Mumbai: Spanish consul​*
27 Nov 2008

*MADRID: European nations plan to send a plane to India to fly their citizens out of Mumbai, where coordinated attacks by Islamic militants left at least 100 dead, Spain's consul in the city said Thursday. *

"I know that there are two initiatives: one from the Spanish government to send a plane, and an initiative on the European level to send a larger plane to allow all Europeans to travel," Cesar Alba said on Spanish National Radio. 

*Alba said all Spanish nationals in Mumbai had been located, with about 20 having taken refuge in the Spanish consulate. *

Spanish media reported that two Spaniards were hurt in the attacks. 

The head of the Madrid regional government, Esperanza Aguirre, escaped unhurt from a shootout at her hotel in Mumbai, a government spokesman said. She was to arrive back in Madrid on Thursday morning. 

Officials said at least 100 people were killed and hundreds more wounded in the gun and grenade attacks across India's financial capital that began late on Wednesday. 

Army commandos laid siege Thursday to two luxury hotels where gunmen held foreign guests hostage.


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## ejaz007

sunny_aus said:


> *Terror attack planned by Lashkar*
> 
> 
> *New Delhi: Ten people reportedly sneaked into Mumbai via the sea route from Karachi and carried out a pre-planned and well-orchestrated strike in India under the aegis of the dreaded Lashkar-e-Taiba militant outfit.*
> 
> A report on Times Now quoted intelligence agencies as saying that the timing of the terror attack coincided with efforts at peace talks between the newly elected regime in Pakistan and the authorities in India.
> 
> The militants reportedly used speed-boats to get from the coast of Karachi to Mumbai and then spread out into the southern part of the city and spread mayhem around the central business district by storming two major hotels and opening indiscriminate fire at several places.
> 
> The report quoted the intelligence agencies as saying that this information came from one of the captured terrorists after last night's heist in India's financial capital that saw more than 87 people lose their lives and 200 being injured with a few hostage dramas continuing for nearly 12 hours.
> 
> The report also said that there was no group called the Deccan Mujahideen and the e-mail has been traced back to a fictitious IP address in Russia. It said that the hawkish elements in Pakistan stage-managed this terror attacks to coincide with the visit of Pakistan's Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi, who was to visit Chandigarh today in the company of his Indian counterpart Pranab Mukherjee, a trip that has since been cancelled.
> 
> 
> Terror attack planned by Lashkar - National News ? News ? MSN India - News



Business as usual. ISI sends a ship to mumbai to offload terrorists and then returns to Karachi while your navy was in bed fast a sleep. From this it seems your navy works 9 to 5 and not like a dedicated armed force 24 hours a day.

Things are proceeding the way I have already stated towards a standoff.

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## ejaz007

*US agencies monitoring India attacks *
Updated at: 1415 PST, Thursday, November 27, 2008 


WASHINGTON: The U.S. administration is continuing to monitor a series of coordinated terrorist attacks in the Indian city of Mumbai but said it was not aware of any American casualties, despite reports that Westerners were targeted. 

The Justice Department said the FBI was monitoring the situation closely and was prepared to offer assistance if Indian authorities asked for it but said it had not yet received such a request.

At the State Department, deputy spokesman Robert Wood said all official Americans were safe and accounted for at the U.S. Consulate in Mumbai, which also is known as Bombay. He could not address reports that Westerners may been targeted in the attacks or were being held hostage. 

US agencies monitoring India attacks


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## sunny_aus

Neo said:


> Yeah right, didn't you guys claim the same in Samjhota Express blast?
> Guess who else was responsible?



Its common sense Neo. Friendship and terrorism cant continue together. Terrorism may be a just business for Pakistan either in Afghanistan or in India but it all takes lives.



> *Every major terror threat involves Pakistan: CIA*
> 
> WASHINGTON, Nov 14: CIA director Michael Hayden has warned that every major terrorist threat confronting the world has ties to Pakistan.
> 
> In a speech to the Atlantic Council on Thursday, Mr Hayden also claimed that Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was hiding in Fata.
> 
> Every major terror threat involves Pakistan: CIA -DAWN - Top Stories; November 15, 2008


----------



## dr.umer

*Euro MP caught up in armed hotel siege​*
27 Nov 2008

North West Euro MP was among guests under siege in their Mumbai hotel during an attack by gunmen.

Sajjad Karim, speaking by mobile phone from a barricaded basement room, said he and others had fled from machine-gun fire and had no idea why the hotel was targeted.

He said: "I was in the lobby of the hotel when gunmen came in and people started ADVERTISEMENT running. There were about 25 or 30 of us.

"Some of us split one way and some another. A gunman just stood there spraying bullets around, right next to me. I managed to turn away and I ran into the hotel kitchen and then we were shunted into a restaurant in the basement. We are now in the dark in this room and we've barricaded all the doors. It's really bad."

Mr Karim is part of a delegation of Euro MPs visiting Mumbai ahead of the forthcoming EU-India summit. 

He said that as he ran from the lobby, he saw people falling but did not know the extent of any casualties. He said it seemed to be a "random attack".

Mr Karim defected from the Liberal Democrats to the Conservatives in the European Parliament a year ago.

The attack was one of at least seven co-ordinated around the city at luxury hotels, a station and a tourist restaurant.

A senior police officer said several people were wounded, and police were fighting the gunmen. He said "the terrorists have used automatic weapons and in some places grenades have been lobbed. The encounters are still going on and we are trying to overpower them."

The gunmen's targets included two luxury hotels, the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus station in southern Mumbai and Leopold's restaurant, a Mumbai landmark. Mr Karim was staying at the Taj Mahal Palace hotel in Mumbai.


----------



## ejaz007

*Hostage crisis end at Taj Hotel, 40 bodies found *
Updated at: 1405 PST, Thursday, November 27, 2008 

 
MUMBAI: The hostage drama in Mumbais landmark Hotel Taj has ended as 40 bodies have been recovered during the rescue operation. 

According to Maharashtra Director General of Police (DGP) A N Roy, all the hostages inside Taj have been rescued. However, hostage-like situation at Trident hotel continues. Meanwhile, two explosions were heard from the hotel. 

Even at the Nariman House, many people are feared to be taken as hostages. 

Nine foreigners are among the 100 killed in the attack that also left over 300 people injured. 

Hostage crisis end at Taj Hotel, 40 bodies found


----------



## Flintlock

There is an unprecedented sense of unity across the country.

Both the government and the opposition are working together, and L K Advani promised to cooperate with the Prime Minister and stand alongside him as he handles this crisis. 

The crowds near the Taj Mahal Hotel were chanting "Bharat Mata ki Jai" and "Jai Hind".


----------



## thorosius

Truly a human tragedy!

I wanna say two things:

1. Considering the scale of the attack, where the hell was all the Hindustani security establishment etc? Probably busy in Afghanistan or taking a "co-ordinated" nap.  They should disband their RAW, military and other organizations. Use the money to feed the millions of hungry inside their country. That would be a far better use of the money.

2. Already, Hindustani news is blaming Pakistan for these. And without any investigation. Its like a deja-vu. Americans after hours of 9-11 blamed Osama bin Laden, while FBI still has Osama listed as a suspect. Seems like Hindus have imported more than weapons from their American masters. (Or perhaps Americans imported the technique from Hindus)  

You guys should better try to sooth the greviences of minorities inside India and your neighbours. While you are at it try to improve your human rights record too. You won't have to see days like these again.

And a word of advice: Stop messing inside other countries, its always bad for the health. Live with peace if you can.

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## s90

Indian Navy woke up this morning:

*Coast Guard hunts for suspected terror ship*

MUMBAI: The Coast Guard on Thursday launched a major search for a ship 'M V Alpha' by which the terrorists involved in the Mumbai attacks are 
suspected to have reached the shores of the metropolis. 

Two aircraft, choppers and Coast Guard vessels have been pressed into service to find the ship, a Coast Guard spokesman said.


----------



## smeaglegolum

Thorosius, don't worry, there will be consequences. So keep a watch.


----------



## shchinese

Flintlock said:


> There is an unprecedented sense of unity across the country.
> 
> Both the government and the opposition are working together, and L K Advani promised to cooperate with the Prime Minister and stand alongside him as he handles this crisis.
> 
> The crowds near the Taj Mahal Hotel were chanting "Bharat Mata ki Jai" and "Jai Hind".



good. take the chance to over turn the aircraft carrier/LCA/Arjun mistakes, spend more on your soldiers, spend more on your poor. 

it is also time to face the fact that your have the second largest Muslim population in this world, time to have a Muslim PM for your country. We already have one in our current admin and he is a great state man. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_Liangyu


----------



## EagleEyes

sunny_aus said:


> Its common sense Neo. Friendship and terrorism cant continue together. Terrorism may be a just business for Pakistan either in Afghanistan or in India but it all takes lives.



Hold on buddy! Are you accusing Pakistan for these planned attacks?  What is wrong with you Indians, if you cant see what hit you, you come back to your old habits?

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## third eye

thorosius said:


> Truly a human tragedy!
> 
> I wanna say two things:
> 
> 1. Considering the scale of the attack, where the hell was all the Hindustani security establishment etc? Probably busy in Afghanistan or taking a "co-ordinated" nap.  They should disband their RAW, military and other organizations. Use the money to feed the millions of hungry inside their country. That would be a far better use of the money.
> 
> 2. Already, Hindustani news is blaming Pakistan for these. And without any investigation. Its like a deja-vu. Americans after hours of 9-11 blamed Osama bin Laden, while FBI still has Osama listed as a suspect. Seems like Hindus have imported more than weapons from their American masters. (Or perhaps Americans imported the technique from Hindus)
> 
> You guys should better try to sooth the greviences of minorities inside India and your neighbours. While you are at it try to improve your human rights record too. You won't have to see days like these again.
> 
> And a word of advice: Stop messing inside other countries, its always bad for the health. Live with peace if you can.



Listen, we do not need either advice or help from the likes of you. You need not worry what RAW etc are doing.They were dong exactly the same thing as ISI was doing when the Marriott was bombed in Islamabad.

In our time of grief & distress the last thing we need is utterly useless advice & sarcasm. That too coming from someone who is endemically unstable & on the verge of being a failed state.

You may not have noticed but Muslims in India are equally concerned of the events as other communities are. kindly keep ur " hindu' remarks to your self.

If you have nothing better to say, it may be good idea to simply shut up.

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## x_man

My thoughts and prayers to everyone in this difficult time..

Respectful condolences to the family of the deceased...

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## s90

third eye said:


> Listen, we do not need either advice or help from the likes of you. You need not worry what RAW etc are doing.They were dong exactly the same thing as ISI was doing when the Marriott was bombed in Islamabad.
> 
> In our time of grief & distress the last thing we need is utterly useless advice & sarcasm. That too coming from someone who is endemically unstable & on the verge of being a failed state.
> 
> You may not have noticed but Muslims in India are equally concerned of the events as other communities are. kindly keep ur " hindu' remarks to your self.
> 
> If you have nothing better to say, it may be good idea to simply shut up.



Err last day i guess a big city of India was crippled by some boys,better worry about ur failed state and also remember the rebels controling almost half of India and who wants to over throw the Gov.


----------



## shchinese

third eye said:


> You may not have noticed but Muslims in India are equally concerned of the events as other communities are. kindly keep ur " hindu' remarks to your self.



but they didn't get treated equally. what is highest level of Muslim officials in your current regime? 

if you just compare, you got very shocking truth that won't be reported by any of your censored news media (which only generates hindu nationalism). please read on if you are brave enough: 

the Muslim population counts for less than *1&#37;* in China, however they got represented by a Vice-PM named Hui Liangyu in our central government. His role oversees all agriculture and religious part of the national life. 


 shocking?


----------



## satishkumarcsc

shchinese said:


> good. take the chance to over turn the aircraft carrier/LCA/Arjun mistakes, spend more on your soldiers, spend more on your poor.
> 
> it is also time to face the fact that your have the second largest Muslim population in this world, time to have a Muslim PM for your country. We already have one in our current admin and he is a great state man.
> 
> Hui Liangyu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Have you ever fired the weapon held by those people....At 300m I can take you out with that weapon when you are armed with an AK 47 any day and any time of the year...Long Live the .303


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British


----------



## smeaglegolum

*LeT terrorist Ismail arrested in Mumbai*

The Mumbai police secured a major breakthrough into Wednesday night's terror strikes with the arrest of Ismail, a key Lashkar e Tayiba operative, from one of the locations that came under attack in the city.
A hither-to unknown outfit, the Deccan Mujahideen [Images], had claimed responsibility for the terror attacks.

More than 100 people have been killed, and 300 injured, in the terror attacks.


----------



## donrahul

shchinese said:


> but they didn't get treated equally. *what is highest level of Muslim officials in your current regime? *
> if you just compare, you got very shocking truth that won't be reported by any of your censored news media (which only generates hindu nationalism). please read on if you are brave enough:
> 
> the Muslim population counts for less than *1%* in China, however they got represented by a Vice-PM named Hui Liangyu in our central government. His role oversees all agriculture and religious of the national life.
> 
> 
> shocking?



Its called "The President of The Republic of India". and It was occupied by a muslim till as recently as 2 years ago.


----------



## EagleEyes

My banning stick is ready. Bring on the flames. 

CONTROL.. CONTROL..

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## batmannow

it was realy a cowrad act, & it is very bad, i personaly condem it!
but one , thing should be clear, pakistan is not, was not involved in any of the terrorists acts now & before?
it would be , very logical & important to hold on the unity at least on this fourm, this a very great idea, that a hot line should be established between ISI & RAW, & the incidents should be investigated jointly?

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## s90

^ Yes but there can be no peace if some nation's desire is to destroy other nation


----------



## donrahul

s90 said:


> ^ Yes but there can be no peace if some nation's desire is to destroy other nation



Was this your explanation during the Marriott Hotel Blasts?


----------



## third eye

s90 said:


> Err last day i guess a big city of India was crippled by some boys,better worry about ur failed state and also remember the rebels controling almost half of India and who wants to over throw the Gov.



I don't think you read my post carefully.. if this is all you have to say at a time like this.. pls keep it ur self.

We S asians have a tradition of respecting the dead & expressing sympathy if even if our worst enemy is affected. You seem to be unaware of this.

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## satishkumarcsc

shchinese said:


> but they didn't get treated equally. what is highest level of Muslim officials in your current regime?
> 
> if you just compare, you got very shocking truth that won't be reported by any of your censored news media (which only generates hindu nationalism). please read on if you are brave enough:
> 
> the Muslim population counts for less than *1%* in China, however they got represented by a Vice-PM named Hui Liangyu in our central government. His role oversees all agriculture and religious part of the national life.
> 
> 
> shocking?



Ever heard of Abdul Kalam APJ?....Heck even the Vice president of BJP is a muslim...


----------



## sunny_aus

batmannow said:


> it was realy a cowrad act, & it is very bad, i personaly condem it!
> but one , thing should be clear, pakistan is not, was not involved in any of the terrorists acts now & before?
> it would be , very logical & important to hold on the unity at least on this fourm, this a very great idea, that a hot line should be established between ISI & RAW, & the incidents should be investigated jointly?



WASHINGTON, Nov 14: _*CIA director Michael Hayden has warned that every major terrorist threat confronting the world has ties to Pakistan.*_
In a speech to the Atlantic Council on Thursday, Mr Hayden also claimed that Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was hiding in Fata.

http://www.dawn.com/2008/11/15/top5.htm

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## third eye

shchinese said:


> but they didn't get treated equally.* what is highest level of Muslim officials in your current regime? *
> 
> if you just compare, you got very shocking truth that won't be reported by any of your censored news media (which only generates hindu nationalism). please read on if you are brave enough:
> 
> the Muslim population counts for less than *1&#37;* in China, however they got represented by a Vice-PM named Hui Liangyu in our central government. His role oversees all agriculture and religious part of the national life.
> 
> 
> shocking?



Sometimes it is better to educate your self before puting ur foot in the mouth. In India the highest office is that of the President of India, the following muslims have occupied it :

1. Zakir Hussain.
2. Fakuriddin Ali Ahmed.
3. APJ Abdul Kalam.

The Vice Prsident of India today is a Muslim.


----------



## Awesome

Chanakya.10 said:


> It was written to stop replies like this...... but alas!!!! it failed!!!!
> 
> And Sir plz.... These are media reports, not my personal allegations......


What sort of replies do you think you'll get with a thinly veiled threat like "... Then God save ISI and Pakistan"?

Be a man and take it, like you give.


----------



## EagleEyes

sunny_aus said:


> WASHINGTON, Nov 14: _*CIA director Michael Hayden has warned that every major terrorist threat confronting the world has ties to Pakistan.*_
> In a speech to the Atlantic Council on Thursday, Mr Hayden also claimed that Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was hiding in Fata.
> 
> Every major terror threat involves Pakistan: CIA -DAWN - Top Stories; November 15, 2008



Ok you idiot. You dont seem to get it. 

I can't believe your such an idiot for taking that comment out of the context and for granted. More detailed discussion can be held on this but your too of an idiot who cant understand the meaning of the statement.

Now all of you cut the crap, and discuss on the EVENT.. this is not a political discussion thread.


----------



## EagleEyes

third eye said:


> Sometimes it is better to educate your self before puting ur foot in the mouth. In India the highest office is that of the President of India, the following muslims have occupied it :
> 
> 1. Zakir Hussain.
> 2. Fakuriddin Ali Ahmed.
> 3. APJ Abdul Kalam.
> 
> The Vice Prsident of India today is a Muslim.



I think this is covered by the above poster. No need to reply to the person who is hitting you where you dont want to get hit.

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## Flintlock

- Weapons seized from terrorists at Taj, and other stuff like credit cards, identification etc.


----------



## Awesome

sunny_aus said:


> *Terror attack planned by Lashkar*
> 
> 
> *New Delhi: Ten people reportedly sneaked into Mumbai via the sea route from Karachi and carried out a pre-planned and well-orchestrated strike in India under the aegis of the dreaded Lashkar-e-Taiba militant outfit.*
> 
> A report on Times Now quoted intelligence agencies as saying that the timing of the terror attack coincided with efforts at peace talks between the newly elected regime in Pakistan and the authorities in India.
> 
> The militants reportedly used speed-boats to get from the coast of Karachi to Mumbai and then spread out into the southern part of the city and spread mayhem around the central business district by storming two major hotels and opening indiscriminate fire at several places.
> 
> The report quoted the intelligence agencies as saying that this information came from one of the captured terrorists after last night's heist in India's financial capital that saw more than 87 people lose their lives and 200 being injured with a few hostage dramas continuing for nearly 12 hours.
> 
> The report also said that there was no group called the Deccan Mujahideen and the e-mail has been traced back to a fictitious IP address in Russia. It said that the hawkish elements in Pakistan stage-managed this terror attacks to coincide with the visit of Pakistan's Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi, who was to visit Chandigarh today in the company of his Indian counterpart Pranab Mukherjee, a trip that has since been cancelled.
> 
> 
> Terror attack planned by Lashkar - National News ? News ? MSN India - News


Really? People swam into Mumbai?

Thats the best lie the Indians could come up with this time? Give it 2 months you'll figure out how it was Indians behind it all, just like your Indian army boys who were recently caught for bombing INDIA.


----------



## shchinese

satishkumarcsc said:


> Have you ever fired the weapon held by those people....At 300m I can take you out with that weapon when you are armed with an AK 47 any day and any time of the year...Long Live the .303



No, I have not fired any WWII weapon as they are no longer in service in the PLA. In my home city, we put all those weapons here.

The current standard rifle for the troops in my hometown is the Type-95 rifle, photo here. 

The anti-terror unit also use Type-05 submachine gun with full body bullet proof gear. 
http://img1.qq.com/news/pics/7807/7807066.jpg


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## s90

> - Weapons seized from terrorists at Taj, and other stuff like credit cards, identification etc.



They will have Nation Bank of Pakistan credit card for sure and Pakistani id card 

Just like militants were carrying Pakistani passports in their pockets while they attacked parliment,terrorists are part tourist nowadays

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## Awesome

smeaglegolum said:


> *LeT terrorist Ismail arrested in Mumbai*
> 
> The Mumbai police secured a major breakthrough into Wednesday night's terror strikes with the arrest of Ismail, a key Lashkar e Tayiba operative, from one of the locations that came under attack in the city.
> A hither-to unknown outfit, the Deccan Mujahideen [Images], had claimed responsibility for the terror attacks.
> 
> More than 100 people have been killed, and 300 injured, in the terror attacks.


Lol I bet now every other Muslim would be arrested and termed as an LeT terrorist.

Where is the court convicting him as a terrorist?


----------



## smeaglegolum

shchinese said:


> No, I have not fired any WWII weapon as they are no longer in service in the PLA. In my home city, we put all those weapons here.
> 
> The current standard rifle for the troops in my hometown is the Type-95 rifle, photo here.
> 
> The anti-terror unit also use Type-05 submachine gun with full body bullet proof gear.
> http://img1.qq.com/news/pics/7807/7807066.jpg



Why don't you shove up all of those weapons and stop posting off topic posts here.


----------



## shchinese

satishkumarcsc said:


> Ever heard of Abdul Kalam APJ?....Heck even the Vice president of BJP is a muslim...



 president of India is not a *real* state man, he couldn't have any *real* influence on the direction (not a few policies) of the country.


----------



## sunny_aus

s90 said:


> Err last day i guess a big city of India was crippled by some boys,better worry about ur failed state and also remember the rebels controling almost half of India and who wants to over throw the Gov.



Is this anger of east pakistan &#8230;.. sorry I mean bangaladesh?....... current size and economy of pakistan is not very small, india wont repeat. I can hardly show my sympathy.
its always tough to fight with mouses than an elephant, very normal


----------



## Awesome

smeaglegolum said:


> Why don't you shove up all of those weapons and stop posting off topic posts here.


Smeagle, you're new here. Please strongly note that we do not lose civility while talking to people around here. You're free to criticize, accuse and whatever. But be civil.


----------



## Awesome

smeaglegolum said:


> Why don't you shove up all of those weapons and stop posting off topic posts here.


Smeagle, you're new here. Please strongly note that we do not lose civility while talking to people around here. You're free to criticize, accuse and whatever. But be civil.


----------



## shchinese

smeaglegolum said:


> Why don't you shove up all of those weapons and stop posting off topic posts here.



*I am talking about the weapons used by those Indian soldiers fighting the terrorists.* 

Maybe you should come up with some rules for this forum and put it into the user agreement. I promise you that I will carefully read your new agreement and accept/sign it if it is reasonable. 

now show me your new user agreement of the defence.pk. Thanks


----------



## s90

sunny_aus said:


> Is this anger of east pakistan .. sorry I mean bangaladesh?....... current size and economy of pakistan is not very small, india wont repeat.
> its always tough to fight with mouses than an elephant, very normal



Both PK-IN are critical in terms of stability,so in same league


----------



## Incredible India

*Navy helicopters chase terror ship*

*Navy helicopters are chasing a Vietnamese registered ship, MV Alpha, which is believed to have dropped terrorists near Bombay. Navy Chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta is closely monitoring the situation.*

2 grenade blasts heard from Oberoi Hotel


----------



## smeaglegolum

Sorry Mod, but Sh chinese really irritating.

Here is an update

*Navy intercepts, boards suspect ship*

The Indian Navy has intercepted and boarded the suspect MV Alpha, a Vietnamese registered ship, that is suspected to have dropped the terrorirts off the coast of Mumbai.

The crew of the ship are being questioned.


----------



## s90

Stand off contines

"large blasts at Taj" 
"police still trying to flush out gunmen"


----------



## satishkumarcsc

shchinese said:


> *I am talking about the weapons used by those Indian soldiers fighting the terrorists.*
> 
> Maybe you should come up with some rules for this forum and put it into the user agreement. I promise you that I will carefully read your new agreement and accept/sign it if it is reasonable.
> 
> now show me your new user agreement of the defence.pk. Thanks




This is the standard issue weapon of the ATS forces for assault.








Modern Firearms - INSAS assault rifle


----------



## shchinese

Incredible India said:


> *Navy helicopters chase terror ship*
> 
> *Navy helicopters are chasing a Vietnamese registered ship, MV Alpha, which is believed to have dropped terrorists near Bombay. Navy Chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta is closely monitoring the situation.*
> 
> 2 grenade blasts heard from Oberoi Hotel



wowo
Vietnamese ship helping terrorists? 

A civilized media would change the way how the same message is presented when there is no solid evidence there. A far more civilized approach is to call it a "foreign ship". 

Clearly, Vietnam doesn't have any link to terrorists, it is wrong and stupid to call it a vietnamese ship dropping terrorists.


----------



## shchinese

smeaglegolum said:


> Sorry Mod, but Sh chinese really irritating.
> 
> Here is an update
> 
> *Navy intercepts, boards suspect ship*
> 
> The Indian Navy has intercepted and boarded the suspect MV Alpha, a Vietnamese registered ship, that is suspected to have dropped the terrorirts off the coast of Mumbai.
> 
> The crew of the ship are being questioned.



again, stop calling it a Vietnamese ship. 

*get yourself civilized and respect other nation which doesn't have anything to do with your lose. *


----------



## Awesome

shchinese said:


> wowo
> Vietnamese ship helping terrorists?
> 
> A civilized media would change the way how the same message is presented when there is no solid evidence there. A far more civilized approach is to call it a "foreign ship".
> 
> Clearly, Vietnam doesn't have any link to terrorists, it is wrong and stupid to call it a vietnamese ship dropping terrorists.


Maybe they just mean the ship is registered as belonging to Vietnam.


----------



## s90

How come Pakistan will want to severe its relationship with vietnam by using their ship?


----------



## smeaglegolum

shchinese said:


> again, stop calling it a Vietnamese ship.
> 
> *get yourself civilized and respect other nation which doesn't have anything to do with your lose. *



It is a viatnamese registered ship. No body said Vietnamese are terrorists. It is suspected ship, they are looking into it if it has anything to the attack. Read properly and don't over interpret.


----------



## RabzonKhan

sunny_aus said:


> This type of terrorist attacks in india cant be organised without full involvement of ISI. And the case becomes serious as a terrorist organisation like ISI is funded by a government.


Amazing...sunny_aus has trumped every journalist and intelligence official on the planet and figured it all out!


----------



## smeaglegolum

Another pic of Terrorist


----------



## RabzonKhan

My condolences to all affected by this tragedy.

There is no excuse for this senseless and cowardly act, I condemn this despicable act in the strongest possible way. I hope this will not affect Pak-India ties.


----------



## Awesome

smeaglegolum said:


> Another pic of Terrorist


Don't they have pictures of some other terrorist as well? Or was this kid behind all the menace?


----------



## shchinese

smeaglegolum said:


> It is a viatnamese registered ship. No body said Vietnamese are terrorists. It is suspected ship, they are looking into it if it has anything to the attack. Read properly and don't over interpret.



in my country, they call it "suspected foreign ship" as whether it is registered as a vietnamese ship or a mars ship doesn't matter.


----------



## Awesome

shchinese said:


> in my country, they call it "suspected foreign ship" as whether it is registered as a vietnamese ship or a mars ship doesn't matter.


But anyway, what was the damning evidence against that ship?


----------



## third eye

Asim Aquil said:


> Don't they have pictures of some other terrorist as well? Or was this kid behind all the menace?




Some more were shown on National TV last night.


----------



## smeaglegolum

Asim Aquil said:


> Don't they have pictures of some other terrorist as well? Or was this kid behind all the menace?



There are two guys in this


----------



## shchinese

Asim Aquil said:


> But anyway, what was the damning evidence against that ship?



imagination.


----------



## smeaglegolum

Prime minister MMS gave a speech to nation. He says

*Groups behind attacks based outside India*
*Stay Calm*


----------



## smeaglegolum

Asim Aquil said:


> But anyway, what was the damning evidence against that ship?



False alarm. They let it go, which is heading Kuwait.


----------



## Awesome

smeaglegolum said:


> Prime minister MMS gave a speech to nation. He says
> 
> *Groups behind attacks based outside India*
> *Stay Calm*


Transcript/video of that speech would be quite nice.

Also post pictures of all the terrorists seen on TV so far.


----------



## shchinese

smeaglegolum said:


> Prime minister MMS gave a speech to nation. He says
> 
> *Groups behind attacks based outside India*
> *Stay Calm*



I want evidence that can be presented and checked by 3rd party. 

Without all these, what your PM talks are just some propaganda.


----------



## sunny_aus

Rabzon said:


> Amazing...sunny_aus has trumped every journalist and intelligence official on the planet and figured it all out!



WASHINGTON, Nov 14: *CIA director Michael Hayden has warned that every major terrorist threat confronting the world has ties to Pakistan.*
In a speech to the Atlantic Council on Thursday, Mr Hayden also claimed that Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was hiding in Fata.

Every major terror threat involves Pakistan: CIA -DAWN - Top Stories; November 15, 2008


----------



## smeaglegolum

Live streaming of News

www.ibnlive.in.com/videos/video_streaming.php


----------



## smeaglegolum

Here is the video of PM's address to Nation

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com


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## shchinese

sunny_aus said:


> WASHINGTON, Nov 14: *CIA director Michael Hayden has warned that every major terrorist threat confronting the world has ties to Pakistan.*
> In a speech to the Atlantic Council on Thursday, Mr Hayden also claimed that Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was hiding in Fata.
> 
> Every major terror threat involves Pakistan: CIA -DAWN - Top Stories; November 15, 2008



can you just stop keep posting the same post? I have seen this before on this forum


----------



## shrivatsa

shchinese said:


> I want evidence that can be presented and checked by 3rd party.
> 
> Without all these, what your PM talks are just some propaganda.



Yea of of course,what can u think off more than propaganda .Thats what you are fed daily


----------



## smeaglegolum

Flickr photostream of Mumbai attack

Flickr: Vinu's Photostream


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## fatman17

Mumbai attacks have al-Qaida echoes, but tactics differ

While the terrorists seem to be Islamist militants they are not simply the usual suicide attackers

Richard Norton-Taylor 

guardian.co.uk, Thursday November 27 2008 11.35 GMT 

It must be linked to al-Qaida. That was an immediate, simplistic - and probably misleading - response to the attacks on big hotels, seen as western targets, in Mumbai.

Certainly, the terrorists appeared to be Muslim extremists. Although they must have assumed they were going to be killed even though they took hostages, the attackers were not suicide bombers, overt martyrs of the kind we have witnessed elsewhere - in London, Iraq, and now in Afghanistan - since the 9/11 attacks on the US.

A group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen, which some analysts describe as an al-Qaida affiliate, claimed responsibility for these latest attacks. The group appears to have named itself after a plateau in central south India.

Unlike al-Qaida-inspired extremists, they have made more traditional and more straightforward demands, namely the release of "Muhajideens" held in Indian jails. However, one similarity with al-Qaida tactics is that there was a number of simultaneous attacks.

Two groups, the Indian Mujahideen and Lashkar-i-Taiba (Army of the Pure) have claimed responsibility for attacks in India over the last 12 months, But most of these have been aimed at such vulnerable targets as commuter trains and market places. Those responsible for the latest atacks have different tactics. They had "western" targets in their sights, and they went in fighting - not simply planting bombs and the leaving the area.

One expert was reported today as comparing the attacks to the bombing of the Marriott Hotel in Pakistan's capital, Islamabad, on September 20. 

Professor Richard Bonney, the author of Jihad: From Qu'ran To Bin Laden, said the difference was that in Mumbai there were coordinated attacks and westerners were singled out as hostages. He said: "This attack looks more dangerous and better planned, though not directed against possible government targets but economic ones and of course the 'western allies'."

The Indian Mujahideen, described as "home grown miltants", has previously declared "open war" against what it says is 60 years of Muslim persecution in India. Lashkar-i-Taiba has claimed responsibility for attacks protecting at what it calls the Indian occupation of Kashmir.

Dominic Armstrong of Aegis Defence Services, a London-based security firm, said: "Recent attacks by Hindu extremists (some of whom have reportedly been arrested) have been unsubtle and largely against mosques. These attacks look very much to be the work of Islamists, and not Muslims of the more traditional Indian sectarian type, but of a more sinister international flavour, with distinct hallmarks of al-Qaida, although probably at subsidiary/affiliate level".

*One issue will be how Pakistan responds, not least to Indian populist accusations that Pakistan is behind all attacks in India, and how much sympathy the new government in Islamabad extends to Delhi.*


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## third eye

shchinese said:


> *I want *evidence that can be presented and checked by 3rd party.
> 
> Without all these, what your PM talks are just some propaganda.



I want ... ?

The PM of India was addressing the ppl of India..relax , don't take youself so seriously. Being a democracy, he has to ans the Parliament. Not you


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## Nihat

This will take some time - the buildings are huge structures with very big rooms.
NSG is doing a bloody brilliant job by rescuing so many hostages (indian and foreign) and limiting casualties.

Those terrorists can probably see approaching death now.


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## sunny_aus

fatman17 said:


> Mumbai attacks have al-Qaida echoes, but tactics differ



*Even Mr Musharraf has retired after lauding &#8220;Hamne Bhi Churiyan Nahi Pahan Rakkhi Hain&#8221; for 6-7 years but he couldn&#8217;t prove his &#8220;Mardangi&#8221; till the end*

if there is an attack then there will be a cost. 

remember even during kargil war, all of the terrorist were removed from indian territory before any sympathy type word could be used, just 8-10 years before, In spite of best involvement of Pakistani military and a visit by pakistani PM Nawaj Sarif to china during the war for help also 


> .
> .
> .
> There were also fears of the growing Islamisation of the Pakistani Army and its links with fundamentalist groups like the Taliban in Afghanistan and the Osama bin Laden breed of militants. It was for this reason that China took a neutral stand on Kargil. It has its own fears of Muslim fundamentalism in its Xinjiang autonomous region and last week even had a Pakistan militant executed for subversion. *So when Sharif sought China's help during his visit to Beijing on June 28, he was bluntly told by China that he could not count on its support. The Pakistani prime minister even cut short his visit claiming pressing concerns back home.* Earlier in India, with casualty figures mounting, the government began to come under public pressure to act more decisively.
> 
> Cover Story: Kargil War-- Pakistan: Face-Saving Retreat


.



> *Mumbai attackers had external links: PM*
> 
> 
> NEW DELHI: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Thursday made yet another "never again" pledge and pointed the accusing finger at the neigh-bourhood. Mr Singh said the attackers had external linkages.
> 
> "The well-planned and well-orchestrated attacks, probably with exter-nal linkages, were intended to create a sense of panic, by choosing high profile targets and indiscriminately killing foreigners," Mr Singh said in an address to the nation.
> 
> Mr Singh said his government will not countenance a situation where the safety and security of the citizens are violated with impunity by terrorists. "It is evident that the group which carried out these attacks, based outside the country, had come with single-minded determina-tion to create havoc in the commercial capital of the country," he said.
> 
> In his address, the prime minister also took care not to hurt the easy-to-offend types by steering clear of speaking about terror laws.
> 
> He said the existing instruments like the NSA will be employed to deal with the situations of this kind. "Existing laws will be tightened to ensure that there are no loopholes available to terrorists to escape the clutches of the law. Most importantly, it is essential to immediately set up a Federal Investigation Agency to go into terrorist crimes of this kind and ensure that the guilty are brought to book," he said.
> 
> Mr Singh said his government will take up "strongly with our neigh-bours" the issue of aiding terror activities aimed against India. *"The use of their territory for launching attacks on us will not be tolerated, and that there would be a cost if suitable measures are not taken by them. We will take a number of measures to strengthen the hands of our police and intelligence authorities," he said. *
> 
> Mr Singh attempted to assure the citizens that the government would do everything required to tackle the menace. "We will curb the flow of funds to suspect organizations. We will restrict the entry of suspects into the country. We will go after these individuals and organizations and make sure that every perpetrator, organizer and supporter of ter-ror, whatever his affiliation or religion may be, pays a heavy price for these cowardly and horrific acts against our people," Mr Singh said.
> 
> He also played glowing tributes to the officials who laid down their lives while saving people from the terror outrage. "I salute the courage and patriotism of the police officers, including the chief of the Anti-Terror Squad, Shri Hemant Karkare and men who have laid down their lives in fighting these terrorists," he said.
> 
> Mumbai attackers had external links: PM- Politics/Nation-News-The Economic Times


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## shrivatsa

true army style operation,they came through inflatables struck swiftly and accurately.Question is if they are homegrown from where did they get such sophisticated training .


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## pkpatriotic

Neo said:


> Terrorists have no religion and yes I support killing of terrorists!



^^^^^ yes Neo you are very true........terrorist have no religion........as non of religion preach terrorism.........while each religion teach humanity.........so here 1st i strongly condemn such inhuman act of terrorism in Mumbai.......and I really wish Indian govt should explode all of these basta**s whos hard-hitting makes peoples lives tougher then never ever before, who are causes to jeopardize the peace of the globe.

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## Vinod2070

Cowards. The swamp producing these cowardly insects needs to be cleaned up, no use killing just the individual coward insects.

They will just keep on breeding unless the dirty marsh where they mushroom is cleaned and dried up.


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## Zaheerkhan

Vinod2070 said:


> Cowards. The swamp producing these cowardly insects needs to be cleaned up, no use killing just the individual coward insects.
> 
> They will just keep on breeding unless the dirty marsh where they mushroom is cleaned and dried up.



YES, AND NOW IT IS TIME TO GO FOR THE SWAMP!!!


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## Nihat

Vinod2070 said:


> Cowards. The swamp producing these cowardly insects needs to be cleaned up, no use killing just the individual coward insects.
> 
> They will just keep on breeding unless the dirty marsh where they mushroom is cleaned and dried up.



No need to clean up the source - the inside locals assist these so we need to murder them first. As far as the source is concerned , there is only so much they can do if we seal our borders instead of crying for "soft" ones


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## batmannow

donrahul said:


> Was this your explanation during the Marriott Hotel Blasts?



donrahul; sir
i guss its about time to cleanout , extermists from both, ISI & RAW.... i guss most of the problums are , comming from there?
they are runing thier own agend's! 
we have to take them, out for the better future our nations?
at the same time, yes there are crazy people out there too!
we have to take them out, step by step, with unity among us, on every level...?

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## Nihat

A neutral source for anybody who one.

Mumbai: PM blames 'outsiders' as hotel battles rage - CNN.com


http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/11/27/arena.india.terrorist.cnn?iref=mpvideosview


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## Flintlock

- A fishing boat has been found abandoned off the Mumbai coast, with a decapitated body on board.

- IT is being considered that this boat was used to bring the terrorists.

- The LeT is being blamed, and the Intelligence sources say that the LeT had been conducting Marine Terror Training off the coast of karachi for quite some time.

- The Mumbai underworld might have helped in the attack.


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## Nihat

> Amanpour: Attack comes at crucial time for region
> 
> 
> (CNN) -- The Indian city of Mumbai exploded into chaos early Thursday morning as gunmen launched a series of attacks across the country's commercial capital, killing scores of people and taking hostages in two luxury hotels frequented by Westerners.
> CNN's Christiane Amanpour says India and Pakistan might be warming toward each other.
> 
> CNN's Christiane Amanpour says India and Pakistan might be warming toward each other.
> 
> Chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour spoke about the situation.
> 
> CNN: An attack this large, this sophisticated, and carried out with no warning could have come from inside India, maybe, maybe outside, maybe a neighboring state could be involved. We turn to Christiane Amanpour. What do you hear?
> 
> Christiane Amanpour: Well, Tom, Islamic militants have been stepping up their assaults on Mumbai, which is not just the center of its filmmaking, but the economic and financial hub of India.
> 
> They have often blamed terror attacks on Islamic militants based in Pakistan. Some, they say, are concerned about, for instance, Indian rule over Kashmir. Al Qaeda also has threatened to attack India in revenge for its policies.
> 
> Very, very interestingly, this comes at a time when the new president of Pakistan has, in fact, gone further than any previous Pakistani leader in saying they want to improve relations with India, in saying they want to jointly combat terrorism together. The Pakistani president even went so far as saying he would consider renouncing a nuclear strike on India.
> 
> This is a very confused situation. Although some group has claimed responsibility, nobody knows the motive yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Amanpour: This is the ongoing situation. Certainly, Kashmir is a flashpoint for India and Pakistan, and really back in 2006, there were Islamic militants blamed for recent attacks. About 180 people were killed there.
> 
> The one that came closest to pitting India against Pakistan was in 2001, when Islamic militants attacked the Parliament. Only 12 people were killed, but not compared to what's happened now, and that almost led to a war between India and Pakistan.
> 
> Whatever happens in this region is so, so difficult and dangerous because of the flash point it centers on. As I say, though it has come at a time right in the aftermath of the warmest outreach by Pakistan to India in decades.
> 
> ...
> 
> CNN: What is, in all of this world picture, Christiane, what is the significance of this?
> 
> Amanpour: Well, this is deeply significant, obviously, because it is such a complex and coordinated attack on multitudinous targets, multitudinous locations. Obviously, a large number of militants or terrorists who have taken part in this, and they have engaged the Indian forces, the police and security forces. It's not like they just put bombs somewhere and allowed them to go off, and either they were suicide attackers who got killed or they were able to remotely detonate their bombs.
> 
> What they've done is not just attack, take hostages, but engage also with the security forces.
> 
> So this really ratchets it up a very significant level. And it's been coming for about 20 years, these attacks. Small in the last couple of decades, but in the last 10 years or so, particularly since 9/11, there have been a number of very significant attacks blamed by the Indian forces on Islamic militants.
> 
> ...
> 
> This is very, very dangerous in this part of the world. Mumbai is India's not just gateway to the nation; it's its economic and financial hub, and it's its cultural hub as well, having the Bollywood and the other film production studios there.
> 
> Nobody quite knows who it is and why they have done it. This is the thing that is very difficult and dangerous at the moment. This little-known group, if it's true that they exist, have claimed responsibility, although that has not been confirmed, so-called Deccan Mujahedeen, and what is the motive?
> 
> There has obviously for many, many years been a type of feelings by India that, say, 150 or so million Muslims who are in the minority are feeling sort of hard done by in terms of the Hindu majority. There are also complaints by Indian Muslims about the way Kashmir is progressing, that enclave, and that is a huge, huge flashpoint.
> 
> But what's really amazing is that often, it's blamed on tensions with Pakistan. And yet, this comes at a time where the president of Pakistan has -- the new president -- has really made an unprecedented overture to India in terms of trying to warm up relations, trying to secure a lasting peace. And just today, Indian and Pakistani officials were having meetings, and they ended it with a joint declaration that they wanted to cooperate on ending terrorism and combating terrorism.
> 
> CNN: Christiane, do you see any connection with the recent American elections and this?
> 
> Amanpour: Well, it's hard to tell. People would say that it takes a lot longer than a few weeks to plan something like this. It's difficult to tell. I'm sure there will be a huge amount of analysis in the upcoming days and weeks.
> 
> What is going to be vital is whatever information the Indian security forces can get from some of these terrorists, militants, who've apparently some may have been captured alive. Obviously, there apparently have been some who have been killed as well. All of this will provide some of those missing pieces of the puzzle. Who are these people? What is their motive?
> 
> Just today, there is an interview with the U.S. Marine Corps commandant as basically saying that al Qaeda's focus now is Pakistan. There had been some thought that maybe al Qaeda was in the past trying to launch its attacks also in India, but the Indian secret services and the security services say that they don't have a presence there. But Pakistan is a very, very big worry. It's a failing state. Afghanistan is practically a failed state right now, even after the U.S. in 2001 sent al Qaeda and the Taliban packing.
> 
> There's a very difficult and dangerous situation on this subcontinent that really has been the focus of a lot of attention right now, and indeed, the incoming president has said that he wants to step up the number of U.S. forces. U.S. commanders want more forces in that region as well, not just Afghanistan, but to cope with Pakistan as well.
> 
> CNN: As you said, there have been a lot of incidents since the year 2000 in India. Why is this one getting so much particular attention? There was one with over 200 deaths.
> 
> Amanpour: Well, about 180 in 2006. But those were sort of multiple bombings in trains and railway stations. But this is one night with, so far, according to our sources, at least 87 people killed, and it's a brazen attack on the most visible elements and symbols and structures of the economic, the cultural, the tourist, the international hub, as I said, the gateway to India -- which is the world's largest democracy -- which is not a failed state by any stretch of the imagination. Which has a unified political structure, which has an army and security forces. India is not Pakistan or Afghanistan, and yet this has been able to happen here.
> 
> And why is it getting so much attention? Because so many more people than ever before have been killed in one fell swoop, and it's ongoing, and these people launched pitched battles with the security forces, and they still have hostages, and it appears they deliberately targeted Westerners.



CNN.com....


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## Nihat

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/no ... -terrorism

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/no ... -terrorism

Mumbai attacks: domestic Indian terrorism with a global twistWhile terrorism is common in India, the Mumbai attacks suggest a group with outside influences &#8211; and careful planning
Julian Borger
guardian.co.uk, Thursday November 27 2008 10.20 GMT

The claim of responsibility came from a group no one had heard of before, the Deccan Mujahideen. The Deccan plateau is a huge area of central and southern India, and mujahideen is the Arab word for Islamic holy warriors.

The name suggests a domestic agenda with foreign inspiration. The claim may of course be bogus, or the name could be a cover for another group, but it looks a fair guess at this early stage that this represents home-grown terrorism with an imported twist.

India is one of the principal targets of terrorism. According to the US state department, 2,300 people died in terrorist attacks in the country during the course of 2007. There are Maoist groups in the east and centre and nationalists in the north-east.

In this case it looks like Islamist extremism, for which Mumbai has been a particular target. More than 250 people were killed there in a series of 13 bomb blasts in 1993 blamed on Muslim militants. Two years ago more than 200 people were killed by bomb attacks on trains and railway stations. The police charged about 30 suspects belonging to a Pakistan-based group called Lashkar-i-Taiba and a northern group called Students Islamic Movement of India.

The violence is fuelled by longstanding ethnic tensions that were inflamed by riots in Gujarat State near Mumbai six years ago. Nearly 2,000 people were killed, most of them Muslims. The most serious attacks followed those riots.

But there is clearly something different about this attack. It has relied not on bombs, but a coordinated assault by men with rifles who seem to have arrived at some of their targets by boat. They appear to be on a suicide mission. In at least one instance they singled out Britons and Americans, and one of their targets was a Orthodox Jewish centre. Clearly there is outside influence on their strategy and ideology.

It is too early to say whether there is an al-Qaida connection, and such links can take many forms, from active training and assistance in planning and logistics to simple inspiration from the internet.

What is likely is that the attacks will get blamed on Pakistan and its Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI), as have previous Islamist atrocities. US counter-terrorism officials believe some ISI members played a role in an attack this year on the Indian embassy in Afghanistan.

Mumbai may be the latest of many outrages that have their roots in recent Indian history &#8211; but the targeting of westerners suggests this is becoming globalised, intertwined with a brand of violent extremism emanating from Pakistan and Afghanistan.


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## dr.umer

*Lashkar-i-Tayyiba denies involvement in Mumbai attacks​*
27 Nov 2008

ISLAMABAD - Militant group Lashkar-i-Tayyiba, which is fighting Indian rule in Kashmir, on Thursday denied any involvement in attacks in Mumbai that killed over 100 people.

"We have nothing to do with Bombay attacks," Abdullah Ghaznavi, a Lashkar-i-Tayyiba spokesman told AFP from the Indian-Kashmir summer capital Srinagar.

"We do not believe in killing innocent civilians. It appears to be an act of Hindu militants who will then unleash a reign of terror against Muslims under the garb of these attacks," he said.

"We strongly condemn these attacks and we say categorically that we have nothing to to with them."

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## Chanakya.10

CNN IBN is reporting

Mumbai: Terrorists who have caused mayhem in Mumbai are not run-of-the-mill terrorists as believed earlier, but are "highly-trained and highly-motivated professionals".

This was the observation of the Marine Commandos (MARCOS) who had the first confrontation with the terrorists at the city's landmark Taj Hotel.

"The terrorists are highly trained, motivated with wherewithal to mount a prolonged campaign," Vice-Admiral JS Bedi, Flag Officer Commanding, Western Naval Command said in Mumbai.

He said these observations were conveyed to him by his MARCOS.

In the operations, MARCOS seized stun grenades, hand grenades and other sophisticated ammunition and ATM cards, plus US dollars from the terrorists.

The terrorists were also found to be carrying huge loads of almonds, which can be used as food in long siege.


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## pkpatriotic

*Sophisticated Attacks, but Al Qaeda Link Disputed*
*By MARK McDONALD and ALAN COWELL
Published: November 27, 2008 *

*HONG KONG  They came wearing black hoods, firing automatic weapons and throwing grenades. They took hostages and attacked two hotels, a movie theater, a café, a train station and other popular and undefended soft targets.*

*Who are they? The answer to that question remained in dispute Thursday as security officials and experts attempted to untangle the few clues as to the attackers likely identity. *

*An e-mail message to Indian media outlets that claimed responsibility for the bloody attacks in Mumbai on Wednesday night said the militants were from the Deccan Mujahedeen. Almost universally, experts and intelligence officials said that name was unknown.*

Deccan is a neighborhood of the Indian city of Hyderabad. The word also describes the middle and south of India, which is dominated by the Deccan Plateau. Mujahedeen is the commonly used Arabic word for holy fighters. But the combination of the two, said Sajjan Gohel, a security analyst in London, is a front name. This group is nonexistent.

Some global terrorism experts with experience in South Asia said that, based on the tactics used in the attacks, the group was probably not linked to Al Qaeda  although that assertion was challenged by other experts. 

Its even unclear whether its a real group or not, said Bruce Hoffman, a professor at the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University and the author of the book Inside Terrorism. 

*It could be a cover name for another group, or a name adopted just for this particular incident, *he said.

That theory was echoed by an Indian security official who spoke in return for anonymity because he was not authorized to be identified and who said the name suggested a link to a group called Indian Mujahedeen implicated in a string of bombing attacks in India killing around 200 people this year alone.

Indeed, on Sept. 15, an e-mail published in Indian newspapers and said to have been sent by representatives of Indian Muhajedeen threatened potential deadly attacks in Mumbai. The message warned counter-terrorism officials in the city that you are already on our hit-list and this time very, very seriously.

*Christine Fair, senior political scientist and a South Asia expert at the RAND Corporation, was careful to say that the identity of the terrorists could not yet be known. But she insisted the style of the attacks and the targets in Mumbai suggested the militants were likely to be Indian Muslims and not linked to Al Qaeda or Lashkar-e-Taiba, another violent South Asian terrorist group. *

*Theres absolutely nothing Al Qaeda-like about it, she said of the attack. Did you see any suicide bombers? And there are no fingerprints of Lashkar. They dont do hostage-taking and they dont do grenades.*

Mr. Hoffman agreed that the assault was *not exactly Al Qaedas modus operandi, which is suicide attacks.*

But he said the attacks, which he called *tactical, sophisticated and coordinated,* perhaps pointed to a broader organization behind the perpetrators. In London, Mr. Gohel also said the attackers may have been recruited by a relatively experienced militant group.

The Indian security official, moreover, said the attackers likely had ties to Lashkar-e-Taiba, a guerrilla group run by Pakistani intelligence for the war against India in the disputed territory of Kashmir. *The official also suggested the attackers might have emerged from an outlawed militant group of Islamic students. Photographs from security cameras showed some youthful attackers carrying assault rifles and smiling as they launched the operation.* 

Ms. Fair said one incident  *a watershed event*  that continues to anger Muslims were the riots that swept Gujarat State near Mumbai in 2002. The violence killed between 1,000 and 2,000 people, most of them Muslims. 

*There are a lot of very, very angry Muslims in India, she said, The economic disparities are startling and India has been very slow to publicly embrace its rising Muslim problem. You cannot put lipstick on this pig. This is a major domestic political challenge for India.*

*The public political face of India says, Our Muslims have not been radicalized. But the Indian intelligence apparatus knows thats not true. Indias Muslim communities are being sucked into the global landscape of Islamist jihad, she said. Indians will have a strong incentive to link this to Al Qaeda. Al Qaedas in your toilet! But this is a domestic issue. This is not Indias 9/11.*

That, too, was disputed by the Indian official. This was Mumbais 9/11, the official said. The consequences of the attack, the official said, may be to disrupt any overtures to Pakistan and to ignite a backlash against Indian Muslims.

*Reflecting a widespread assessment in Pakistan, Moonis Ahmar, a professor of international relations at Karachi University, called the attacks a well-thought out conspiracy designed to destabilize relations between India and Pakistan and sabotage efforts at reconciliation.*

Hindus make up about 80 percent of Indias 1.13 billion population and Muslims 13.4 percent. Experts disputed the complexity of the operation.

In London, Mr. Gohel said in a telephone interview that the attack in Mumbai was uniquely disturbing because it seemed a departure from cruder, earlier terrorist attacks in India using timed explosive devices against local populations, was directed at foreigners and involved hostage-taking. 

*The fingerprints point to an Islamic Al Qaeda-affiliated terrorist group, he said. The attack involved soft, symbolic targets and multiple coordinated attacks aimed to create maximum terror and human carnage and damage the economy.*

*Mr. Hoffman said: You dont see these types of terrorist operations very often, if at all. These arent just a bunch of radical guys coming together to cause mayhem. *

*This takes a different skill set. It doesnt take much skill to make a bomb. This is not just pressing a button as a suicide bomber and dying. You dont learn this over the Internet.*

But Ms. Fair did not agree that the attacks on Wednesday necessarily required deep planning and training.

*This wasnt something that required a logistical mastermind, she said. These were not hardened targets. A huge train station with zero security. Two hotels with no security, both owned by Indians. Leopolds Café. How hard is it, really? Its not rocket science.*

*Mark McDonald reported from Hong Kong; Alan Cowell from Paris; Souad Mekhennet from Frankfurt, Germany; and Salman Masood from Islamabad.*

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## Awesome

SIMI did it

SIMI/IM/DM whatever you want to call them.


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## Chanakya.10

dr.umer said:


> "We do not believe in killing innocent civilians. It appears to be an act of Hindu militants who will then unleash a reign of terror against Muslims under the garb of these attacks," he said.





Hahaaa..... Look the saint is out to spread the deeds........
What a loser!!!!!! Openly disclosed his agenda.......................


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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> - A fishing boat has been found abandoned off the Mumbai coast, with a decapitated body on board.
> 
> - IT is being considered that this boat was used to bring the terrorists.
> 
> - The LeT is being blamed, and the Intelligence sources say that the LeT had been conducting Marine Terror Training off the coast of karachi for quite some time.
> 
> - The Mumbai underworld might have helped in the attack.


Your intel isn't worth its salt. Give it a few weeks they'll be back to blaming the Indian Mujahideen.


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## Flintlock



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## Chanakya.10

> But Ms. Fair did not agree that the attacks on Wednesday necessarily required deep planning and training.



Ya they were not trained, and neither it was planned.
There is no need for training to fight NSG commondos!!!!
There is no need of training to fire with AK-47s!!!!
There is no need of training to use real time war tactics with such pricision to kill 101 people and injure more than 300!!!!
There is no planning required either. The Taj Mahal hotel, Trident Hotel, etc just came on their way without them knowing!!!!
There is no need to even plan, then where did there mail come from????
If there was no plan, why were they specially targeting foreign nationals????

Wow, what an article!!


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## pkpatriotic

*Mumbai massacre*
*Commandos storm hotels; Canadians among hostages after gunmen target city's tourist sites, killing at least 101 people and injuring 287*
*Jonathan Manthorpe, Vancouver Sun
Published: Thursday, November 27, 2008*

*PREVIOUS ATTACKS AIMED TO STIR UP MUSLIM-HINDU VIOLENCE*

The carefully planned and coordinated attacks in India's financial capital of Mumbai by terrorists armed with automatic weapons and grenades Wednesday killed at least 101 people and wounded 287 more.

*The critical now question is: Will this inflame religious tensions between Muslims and Hindus in India and prove to be a setback for building better relations between Muslim Pakistan and predominantly Hindu India?*

*Witnesses said the gunmen, thought to number about 20, specifically targeted Britons and Americans.*

*Several dozen of the foreigners were being held hostage by terrorists barricaded in two luxury hotels, the Taj Mahal on Mumbai's waterfront, and the Oberoi.*

Indian authorities rushed commandos to the scene to support Mumbai's police, many of whom were killed and injured during the early hours of the assault.

Responsibility for the attacks was claimed by a previously unknown group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen, but the motives were unclear.

There has been a wave of bombings in Indian cities in recent months that has left scores of people dead.

Many of the people arrested for these bombings have been Muslims, and it has been assumed the aim was to stir up resentment and perhaps violence between Muslims and the majority Hindu population.

*The attacks have come at a time when relations between India and its Muslim neighbour, Pakistan, have been improving. This threatens terrorist and guerrilla groups hoping to separate predominantly Muslim Kashmir from Indian rule and terrorists and insurgents using Pakistan's lawless western border region for attacks into Indian-allied Afghanistan.*

But Mumbai has frequently been the target of terror attacks with either regional or purely domestic motives.

A series of bomb attacks in Mumbai and on commuter trains in 2006 killed nearly 200 people and injured more than 700.

*The 2006 attacks have been blamed on Lashkar-e-Toiba, a militant group based in Pakistan dedicated to ending Indian rule in Kashmir. But Indian authorities have also claimed the Lashkar-e-Toiba was aided in the attacks by Pakistan's Inter-Service Intelligence Directorate (ISI).*

*In 2003, more than 50 people were killed in Mumbai in a series of bombings blamed on Muslim militants.

In 1993, 13 bomb explosions in Mumbai killed 250 people and injured 700 more.

Those attacks are believed to have been coordinated by Dawood Ibrahim, don of Mumbai's organized crime syndicate named D-Company.*

Indian authorities say those attacks were carried out in retaliation for the massacre of Muslims in Mumbai during December and January that year, and also for the demolition of the Babri Mosque by Hindu militants. But Indian authorities also say that Ibrahim, thought to be hiding out in Pakistan, was pressed into making the attacks by ISI.

It is highly unlikely that ISI was involved in the attacks in Mumbai, but the assault came the day after the Islamabad government announced it is disbanding the political wing of ISI, which was responsible for maintaining links with and supporting regional terrorist and insurgent groups.

*It seems likely that the terrorists arrived in Mumbai by train because the first attacks, which killed about 10 people, were in the city's massive main railway terminus, the Chhatrapati Shivaji station.

Some gunmen moved towards the nearby dock area where several people were killed.

Other terrorists moved on the two hotels, where they separated Americans and Britons from other guests and took them away.

At press time, there were reports of a fire at the hotel and of gunmen on the roof lobbing grenades down into the street.

Gunmen also attacked Leopold's restaurant, a Mumbai landmark frequented by foreign visitors, in the premier business district of Colaba at Nariman Point.*


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## dr.umer

*Pakistan offers help to India in probing attacks​*
27 Nov 2008

ISLAMABAD: Condemning the terrorist acts in Mumbai in the strongest possible terms, Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said Pakistan is ready to cooperate with India in launching a probe into the acts terrorism in Mumbai.

Speaking at the International Conference on Cooperative Development , Peace and security in South Asia and while talking to newspersons here Thursday, the Pakistan Foreign Minister said his heart goes out to families who have lost their near and dear ones in this tragic incident. 

I offer support and cooperation of the people and government of Pakistan to India in this difficult time. Pakistan and India have to collectively fight against extremism and terrorism in all its forms and manifestations. 

He said terrorism is not a local or regional phenomenon. This is a global issue and all civilized societies will have to join hands and pool in their resources to deal with this curse. Pakistan is dealing with this menace on daily basis. 

After 9/11 the world had changed and it is facing challenges, he said and suggested that chiefs of intelligence agencies of both the countries and national security advisers should establish a hotline to exchange information. 

He said President and Prime Minister of Pakistan have conveyed heartfelt sympathies of the people and government of Pakistan on this tragic incident. 

He said both the countries have already established a mechanism to deal with terrorism and this system will be further strengthened.


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## Flintlock




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## Chanakya.10

Here is a D*g.....


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## Neo

Asim Aquil said:


> Lol I bet now every other Muslim would be arrested and termed as an LeT terrorist.
> 
> Where is the court convicting him as a terrorist?



Sure....LeT has some 140 million members in India!


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## Chanakya.10

NSG preparing to launch attack on Nariman House
Agencies
Published on Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 09:52, Updated on Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 19:16 in Nation section



MUMABI SHATTERED: Window panes on third and fifth floor shattered.


Mumbai: Exchange of fire intensified at Nariman House, a residential complex with a Jewish prayer hall, where also a hostage situation was prevailing. There were unconfirmed reports of a similar situation in Cama hospital. Window panes on third and fifth floor shattered.

Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh said the situation was "grave". He remarked that the terrorists could have come by boats.

One terrorist holed up inside Nariman House in south Mumbai killed, says police. Six more ultras suspected to be inside the building.

Three hostages have been able to escape till now. Few people including some elderly people and children evacuated from the neighbouring building of Nariman House.

Maharashtra deputy chief minister R R Patil said nine suspected terrorists have been detained.

Five police officers, including Anti Terrorism Squad chief Hemant Karkare, were killed in the terror strikes that in all claimed the lives of at least 11 police personnel.


In this picture: India's National Security Guard commandos take positions from an adjoining building of Nariman Bhawan
The motive for the onslaught was not immediately clear, but Mumbai has frequently been targeted in terrorist attacks blamed on Islamic extremists, including a series of bombings in July 2007 that killed 187 people.

Media reports said a previously unknown group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen had claimed responsibility for the attacks in e-mails to several media outlets.


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## Chanakya.10

Neo said:


> Sure....LeT has some 140 million members in India!



and 169 million in pakistan


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## Neo

Chanakya.10 said:


> and 169 million in pakistan



And 1.3 billion around the world right? Thank you for reconfirming my claim that every muslim is a terrorist from hindu pov.


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## Halaku Khan

Folks, take it easy. 

A few of the swines have been already captured alive. In due course of time, we will find out who armed them, who trained them, where they came from in boats and all that.


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## fatman17

the media is suggesting total failure of indian intelligence network. the indian army is claiming that the help of the indian underworld was taken.


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## Neo

Chankaya, this is exactly the kind of mentality that has got India into ethnic and religious devide and violence and if you and your kind continue to treat the largest minority in your land as terrorists I'm sure we'll see more muslim countries carved out right from the heart of India.


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## Neo

fatman17 said:


> the media is suggesting total failure of indian intelligence network. the indian army is claiming that the help of the indian underworld was taken.



Reminds me of Samjhota express.


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## Halaku Khan

Neo said:


> Chankaya, this is exactly the kind of mentality that has got India into ethnic and religious devide and violence and if you and your kind continue to treat the largest minority in your land as terrorists I'm sure we'll see more muslim countries carved out right from the heart of India.



Neo, the suggestion that all Muslims in India are members of the LeT was yours, not Chanakya's.


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## pkpatriotic

*Gunmen turned Indias financial capital into a war zone, shooting guests in luxury hotels and setting off explosions in one of the worst terrorist attacks in the countrys history.*


*Indian firefighters attempt to put out a blaze at the historic Taj Mahal Hotel in Mumbai as smoke billows from the top stories*






*The Taj Mahal hotel, one of the best known in India, was on fire on Wednesday night as a gun battle raged in its corridors between security forces and militants*





*Employees and guests use curtains to escape the Taj Mahal hotel. The heritage hotel, on the waterfront, is a favourite of international businesspeople and celebrities*





*Police take cover as firemen try to rescue guests from the burning Taj*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## fatman17

Halaku Khan said:


> Folks, take it easy.
> 
> A few of the swines have been already captured alive. In due course of time, we will find out who armed them, who trained them, where they came from in boats and all that.



yes indeed! after the indian police go over them, they will also confess that they were responsible for the hiroshima bombings!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Goodperson

Neo said:


> Chankaya, this is exactly the kind of mentality that has got India into ethnic and religious devide and violence and if you and your kind continue to treat the largest minority in your land as terrorists I'm sure we'll see more muslim countries carved out right from the heart of India.



India will never split it has though it has been dreams of our neighbors We are proud of Indian Muslims.



Neo said:


> Reminds me of Samjhota express.



That wild accusation by media who gone overboard with ATS investigations they have not proved anything. Using the term "Hindu Terrorism" was used to sensationalize the news in Media and attract attraction by Congress party.


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## Halaku Khan

fatman17 said:


> yes indeed! after the indian police go over them, they will also confess that they were responsible for the hiroshima bombings!



This is quite similar to Neo's suggestion that all Indian Muslims are LeT members.


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## Awesome

fatman17 said:


> yes indeed! after the indian police go over them, they will also confess that they were responsible for the hiroshima bombings!


Yeah man this sucks.

This is how it works. The Indian intel makes a fool of itself once or twice a month whenever these bombings happen in India.

They panic and HAVE to find 'culprits'. Just say it was Pakistan. Indians are so sheep about it all, the Indian government can probably pin Kennedy's assassination upon us if they really tried hard.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Neo

Halaku Khan said:


> Neo, the suggestion that all Muslims in India are members of the LeT was yours, not Chanakya's.



That was my sarcastic reply to Asim's post that every arrested muslim would now be termed as LeT terrorist. Chanakya's reply was simply a provocation followed by as ""


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## Awesome

Halaku Khan said:


> This is quite similar to Neo's suggestion that all Indian Muslims are LeT members.


Where did your sarcasm bone go?

He was pointing out the irony of it all. No matter who is caught and what investigation is done. To Indians all Muslims are potential enemies.


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## Awesome

Goodperson said:


> India will never split it has though it has been dreams of our neighbors We are proud of Indian Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> That wild accusation by media who gone overboard with ATS investigations they have not proved anything. Using the term "Hindu Terrorism" was used to sensationalize the news in Media and attract attraction by Congress party.


Being proud of them is all well n good, but killing them a little less would be just splendid!

Of course it would be a cold day in hell when a Hindu becomes a terrorists, right?


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## Halaku Khan

Neo said:


> That was my sarcastic reply to Asim's post that every arrested muslim would now be termed as LeT terrorist. Chanakya's reply was simply a provocation followed by as ""



Yes, I quite understand.

If you are entitled to your sarcasms, then allow Chanakya his provocations!


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## Awesome

Halaku Khan said:


> Yes, I quite understand.
> 
> If you are entitled to your sarcasms, then allow Chanakya his provocations!


I decided against a ban for him... We're just extending leniency to all of your nuisance today considering that emotions are at an all time high and none of you are really putting your right foot forward today.

However please note, that patience is running extremely low. Calm down and talk like civilized people!


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## t-birds

*Mumbai Attacks To Be Blamed On Pakistan? *

Up to 100 dead in coordinated terror, India blamed previous attacks on Pakistan



Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Wednesday, November 26, 2008

Coordinated attacks across Mumbai, Indias financial capital, which have killed up to a hundred people and injured hundreds more, are likely to be blamed on a terrorist organization linked to the Pakistani ISI, providing further justification for controversial U.S. bombings inside Pakistani territory and heightened rhetoric against Pakistan on behalf of President elect Barack Obama.

Terrorists armed with AK-47s and grenades conduced a series of rampages on hotels, restaurants and public transport facilities today, killing around 80 and injuring over 250 people. Initial reports that terrorists had seized western hostages were later dismissed by Indian government officials.

With the corporate media desperate to pin the blame in order to score much needed propaganda points for the ailing war on terror, suspicion is likely to fall on Pakistan, a country that President elect Barack Obama openly threatened during his presidential campaign.

The bombings in Mumbai will also likely silence questions about controversial U.S. bombing raids inside Pakistani territory aimed at terrorists, strikes that have repeatedly killed innocent civilians.

It is commonly asserted that the Pakistani ISI helps fund and train terrorists.

Journalist Stephen Schwartz notes that several terrorist and criminal groups are backed by senior officers in the Pakistani army, the countrys ISI intelligence establishment and other armed bodies of the state. Author Daniel Byman states, Pakistan is probably todays most active sponsor of terrorism.

Indeed, Indian police claimed that the Pakistani ISI directed the July 2006 train bombing in Mumbai which killed 186 people, which was blamed on the Islamist militant group Lashkar-e-Toiba, an organization based in Pakistan. Look for the same organization or an affiliated group to be blamed for todays attacks.

As Bloomberg reports today, The government has previously blamed terrorist attacks on organizations linked to foreign powers, without offering evidence or making arrests. Local media often blame the attacks on groups backed by Pakistan or Bangladesh, without identifying the security officials who provided the information.

With shrill corporate media outfits begging for a scapegoat to be used as war on terror propaganda, it wont be long before an Al-Qaeda-Pakistan link is claimed. Indeed, early reports already state that the attacks are thought to be linked to Al-Qaeda, offering no evidence and in spite of the fact that an unknown group, Deccan Mujahideen, has clamed responsibility for the massacre. The Deccan Plateau is a large plateau in India, suggesting this is where the terrorist group was based.


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## Neo

Goodperson said:


> India will never split it has though it has been dreams of our neighbors We are proud of Indian Muslims.



Obviously strong words are not followed by deeds.
Read DM's warning again, dated 15th Sept, 2008!



> *Next Mumbai: Indian Mujahideen​*
> *Monday, September 15, 2008(!)*
> 
> The Indian Mujahideen, which has claimed responsibility for the Delhi, Ahmedabad, Bangalore and Jaipur blasts killing at least 130 people in a span of four months, *has now threatened to carry out attacks in Mumbai,* report Agencies.
> 
> Accusing Mumbai Polices ATS of harassing Muslims, Indian Mujahideen said in its email that it was closely watching the ATS.
> 
> *You should know that your acts are not at all left unnoticed; rather we are closely keeping an eye on you and just waiting for the right time to execute your bloodshed. We are aware of your recent raids at Ansarnagar, Mograpada in Andheri and the harassment and trouble you created there for the Muslims, the group said in the email they sent to various media houses on Saturday evening.*
> *
> You threatened to murder them and your mischief went to such an extent that you even dared to abuse and insult Maulana Mahmood-ul-Hasan Qasmi and even misbehaved with the Muslim women and children there, the email said.*
> 
> *If this is the degree your arrogance has reached, and if you think that by these stunts you can scare us, then let the Indian Mujahideen warn all the people of Mumbai that whatever deadly attacks Mumbaikars will face in future, their responsibility would lie with the Mumbai ATS and their guardians  Vilasrao Deshmukh and R R Patil, the email said. You are already on our hit-list and this time very very seriously.*
> 
> The terror outfit also threatened to target a senior Rajasthan police official. All the Mujahideen who shook Jaipur are absolutely safe and secure, and are preparing for our next targets, one of which is A K Jain  the DIG of Rajasthan, claimed Indian Mujahideen.
> 
> Jain has been instrumental in arresting several SIMI members in Rajasthan in connection with the May 13 serial blasts in Jaipur. The mail bears two signatures at the end  Guru Alhindi and al-Arbi.
> 
> Source


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## Halaku Khan

Asim Aquil said:


> To Indians all Muslims are potential enemies.



That's your hugely generalized opinion.

What about APJ Abdul Kalam? He is a hero to huge numbers of people. 

But some Muslims do think that he is not "Muslim enough"!


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## shchinese

I just read the speech of the Indian PM to its country, really shocking! how any civilized man can be that *shameful*? 

Have a read of the following part:



> We will take up strongly with our neighbours that the use of their territory for launching attacks on us will not be tolerated, and that there would be a cost if suitable measures are not taken by them.



source here:
Prime Minister's Office

*Under his exact logic, China should have already bombed India for its hosting the Tibetan Young Congress which organize terrorists attack against China and its citizens. *



> TYC uses nonviolent means for its actions, to the request of the Dalai Lama. However, its manifesto implies the loss of life,[1] and Tsewang Rigzin, the president of the organisation, who was born and raised in the United States, *in an interview with the Italian daily Corriere della Sera did not rule out future suicide attacks*.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_Youth_Congress

La svolta radicale imposta dai giovani «No ai compromessi»


*tell me when you are hosting organizations that are using suicide attacks against Chinese targets, how you could claim these? *

So Singh means it is OK for his country to host such terrorist organizations which use suicide attacks, but at the same time threats other countries for such accused crap without any solid evidence on hand. Wake up, you are the victims of this terrorist attack, but your country is hosting terrorist group and that group is called Tibetan Youth Congress.


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## Goodperson

Asim Aquil said:


> Being proud of them is all well n good, but killing them a little less would be just splendid!
> 
> Of course it would be a cold day in hell when a Hindu becomes a terrorists, right?



My earlier response were in response to your and Neo's hint about hand of Hindus.

Why do you want to put your foot forward and blame Hindu's? The confrontation probably still On , Read the media world over and wait for the reports as some terrorists are also caught alive. 

If you check US media like Fox and CNN now you get more than enough hint.


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## Neo

Halaku Khan said:


> Yes, I quite understand.
> 
> If you are entitled to your sarcasms, then allow Chanakya his provocations!



Insulting the entire nation (169 million) isn't acceptable, certainly not on this board!


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## Goodperson

Neo said:


> Obviously strong words are not followed by deeds.
> Read DM's warning again, dated 15th Sept, 2008!



Threatening attack is not equal to splitting, IM probably is a HUJI extention of illegal BD immigrants with few of their sympathizers.


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## Awesome

Goodperson said:


> My earlier response were in response to your and Neo's hint about hand of Hindus.
> 
> Why do you want to put your foot forward and blame Hindu's? The confrontation probably still On , Read the media world over and wait for the reports as some terrorists are also caught alive.
> 
> If you check US media like Fox and CNN now you get more than enough hint.


I didn't blame anyone, other than said that origins are from INDIA.

I hinted at SIMI btw if anyone at all.

But it could be anyone. I strongly disbelieve WE are behind it. We have a democratic government in place. Can you tell from all the condolences, all the pledges of support here that Pakistanis really want to see chaos and carnage in India? The democratic government can't go against the wishes of Pakistanis.

The Army general is a passive one. He has already bowed down to the will of the civilian government. At their request the ISI's wings have been clipped. There is almost a close to nothing chance that Pakistan is behind this. But the Indian's lack of faith, the insistence to blame Pakistan, is quite frustrating. It feels like they just need an enemy or else they would implode.


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## Halaku Khan

Neo said:


> Insulting the entire nation (169 million) isn't acceptable, certainly not on this board!



Well, sarcastically suggesting that all Indians think that all Indian Muslims are LeT members is pretty offensive too.

Anyway, never mind. As you said, emotions are high.


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## Neo

Goodperson said:


> Threatening attack is not equal to splitting, IM probably is a HUJI extention of illegal BD immigrants with few of their sympathizers.



Or the homegrown SIMI...time will tell.


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## PakmanUSA

The whole attack was a sad event conducted by cowards. Notice these people won't engage a military force. I do know the whole idea is to scare the people which in turn might cause the goverment to bargin with the terrorists. I say just hunt them down and eliminate them like roaches no matter where they flee to.


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## Goodperson

Asim Aquil said:


> I didn't blame anyone, other than said that origins are from INDIA.
> 
> I hinted at SIMI btw if anyone at all.
> 
> But it could be anyone. I strongly disbelieve WE are behind it. We have a democratic government in place. Can you tell from all the condolences, all the pledges of support here that Pakistanis really want to see chaos and carnage in India? The democratic government can't go against the wishes of Pakistanis.
> 
> The Army general is a passive one. He has already bowed down to the will of the civilian government. At their request the ISI's wings have been clipped. There is almost a close to nothing chance that Pakistan is behind this. But the Indian's lack of faith, the insistence to blame Pakistan, is quite frustrating. It feels like they just need an enemy or else they would implode.



Need to wait and watch more news are emerging most of the international intelligence agencies are alerted, if you could watch CNN you will realize what I am talking about.


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## shchinese

PakmanUSA said:


> The whole attack was a sad event conducted by cowards. Notice these people won't engage a military force. I do know the whole idea is to scare the people which in turn might cause the goverment to bargin with the terrorists. I say just hunt them down and eliminate them like roaches no matter where they flee to.



but what Singh wants is a war with its neighbors, not those terrorists. 



> We will take up strongly with our neighbours that the use of their territory for launching attacks on us will not be tolerated, and that there would be a cost if suitable measures are not taken by them.



Prime Minister's Office


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## Awesome

So I hear the siege is still going on at some places?


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## Neo

Halaku Khan said:


> Well, sarcastically suggesting that all Indians think that all Indian Muslims are LeT members is pretty offensive too.
> 
> Anyway, never mind. As you said, emotions are high.



Prove me wrong! Just check some other less moderated fora and see the attemts made by hindus to generalise all muslims as terrorists.


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## bellicose.mcbein

nothing like waking up to THIS on my radio alarm in the morning. godspeed to the indian commandos!


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## Munir

Vinod2070 said:


> Cowards. The swamp producing these cowardly insects needs to be cleaned up, no use killing just the individual coward insects.
> 
> They will just keep on breeding unless the dirty marsh where they mushroom is cleaned and dried up.



I disagree with the term cowards. I hope you can imagine how it feels to dump everything you have and go there to shoot others you not even know. They might be cowards for side A but hero's for side B. Maybe one even needs either no brains or super intellectual capcity to push itself beyond sacrifice...

Sofar we do not know the cause we should refrain for terms like cowards. The real cowards are actually those that call themself a leader and let other die like flies... Often it is a democractic principle... But I can add it is the stupidity of masses to select them and accept their fate.

That doesn't mean I hate this crime... I do not want to use wrong terms and neither am I predicting that the terrorist are foreigners... Even the Indian president (which I more see as a p ussy then a real president) should understand that there is a fair trail and if he tells me that bad people are usual non Indian then he is not even worth to be called a P... It sounded like the usual crap you hear from pater de familias.. It is not in our family.. It should be a stranger... Crap. Otherwise the Indian state had no criminals or politicians (either the definition of the same).

Do remind that your president is occupying and terrorizing millions of Kashmiri... You might call that freedom or democracy,I call that hypocracy.

It is good to see so many Indians in this forum. It surely raises the level we used to communicate, but it surely will lead to some tough parts for my Indian friends that are not used to members that can hit you with every statement you make.

India is either a failed nation (it has many problematic regions) or is the next victim of world terrorism... It might have pointed at Pakistan as breeding ground for WOT but it surely should remember that it will die at the same way as its neighbour. 

I puke at posters and journalism that point already on Muslims... Whether it is a term that is same. I think Hindu's are not an inch better. In Gujarat they showed that they are even more stupid. And we should remind that it was orchestrated by elected hindu fanatics. Yet we do not link that to terrorism? Or do we still agree with Stupid Indian Tamils that terrorize Sri Lanka? It surely shows world terrorism exported by India...


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## Goodperson

Neo said:


> Or the homegrown SIMI...time will tell.



Why speculate ? Earlier you and Asim speculated about Malegaon accused.
Investigations are ON this attack is unprecedented.


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## batmannow

it is realy stupid to think that, pak army is behind all this terrorists acts in mumbai, why should they would be doing that, to make situation more worse?

or to give more excuse to allied forces to attack pakistan?

i fully understand the feelings , of our indian friends but plz logicly think it by yourself , this is not in pakistan's intersts to act like a wild cowboy!

indian media , cant find anything more than pakistan to sell, but even they know it , its not pakistan?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Goodperson

Munir said:


> I disagree with the term cowards. I hope you can imagine how it feels to dump everything you have and go there to shoot others you not even know. They might be cowards for side A but hero's for side B. Maybe one even needs either no brains or super intellectual capcity to push itself beyond sacrifice...
> 
> Sofar we do not know the cause we should refrain for terms like cowards. The real cowards are actually those that call themself a leader and let other die like flies... Often it is a democractic principle... But I can add it is the stupidity of masses to select them and accept their fate.
> 
> That doesn't mean I hate this crime... I do not want to use wrong terms and neither am I predicting the terrorist ar saying openly that it should be foreigners... Even the Indian president (which I more see as a p ussy then a real president) should understand that there is a fair trail and if he tells me that bad people are usual non Indian then he is not even worth to be called a P...



Terrorist are cowards period. The only shoot and kill innocent and unarmed people including women and kids.


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## Halaku Khan

Asim Aquil said:


> But it could be anyone. I strongly disbelieve WE are behind it. We have a democratic government in place. Can you tell from all the condolences, all the pledges of support here that Pakistanis really want to see chaos and carnage in India? The democratic government can't go against the wishes of Pakistanis.
> 
> The Army general is a passive one. He has already bowed down to the will of the civilian government. At their request the ISI's wings have been clipped. There is almost a close to nothing chance that Pakistan is behind this. But the Indian's lack of faith, the insistence to blame Pakistan, is quite frustrating. It feels like they just need an enemy or else they would implode.



I would hope all of what you say is true. 

But perhaps the Pakistani establishment is capable of worse things than you would like to believe. One could cite lots of instances - but I wonder if any amount of evidence will ever suffice.


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## Kumar

Arrested Terrorist from Faridkot Pakistan.


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## Neo

Goodperson said:


> Why speculate ? Earlier you and Asim speculated about Malegaon accused.
> Investigations are ON this attack is unprecedented.



Pointing fingers at ISI, LeT or Huji is not speculation? 
How come SIMI is always overlooked??


----------



## shchinese

batmannow said:


> it is realy stupid to think that, pak army is behind all this terrorists acts in mumbai, why should they would be doing that, to make situation more worse?
> 
> or to give more excuse to allied forces to attack pakistan?
> 
> i fully understand the feelings , of our indian friends but plz logicly think it by yourself , this is not in pakistan's intersts to act like a wild cowboy!
> 
> indian media , cant find anything more than pakistan to sell, but even they know it , its not pakistan?



you are naive if you just believe the media is selling such crap. 
the top leadership of the regime of India is pushing for this. 

have a read about what Singh said just hours ago.


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## Goodperson

batmannow said:


> it is realy stupid to think that, pak army is behind all this terrorists acts in mumbai, why should they would be doing that, to make situation more worse?
> 
> or to give more excuse to allied forces to attack pakistan?
> 
> i fully understand the feelings , of our indian friends but plz logicly think it by yourself , this is not in pakistan's intersts to act like a wild cowboy!
> 
> indian media , cant find anything more than pakistan to sell, but even they know it , its not pakistan?



Why would PA do that where did you read in Indian media ? Do you have links?


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## shchinese

Goodperson said:


> Why would PA do that where did you read in Indian media ? Do you have links?



how about crap like this:



> We will take up strongly with our neighbours that the use of their territory for launching attacks on us will not be tolerated, and that there would be a cost if suitable measures are not taken by them.



Prime Minister's Office

by your war lover PM

I would also be happy to know the real meaning of what does the word "cost" mean. another war with Pakistan? or maybe India is asking to have some DF-15 field tests on its land?

keep my worlds in your mind: India is NOT US, India is NOT NATO.You are NOT in the position to threat any military conflict with anyone that share border with you.


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## Goodperson

Neo said:


> Pointing fingers at ISI, LeT or Huji is not speculation?
> How come SIMI is always overlooked??



Nope if you are asking me then I did not point at IM or Huji I said IM is extension of Huji. 
This seems to be well coordinated and sophisticated attacks, Even the most famed Mumbai police officers were killed when they went to confront.


----------



## Kumar

Exclusive: LeT terrorist Ismail arrested in Mumbai
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/27mum-lashkar-0operative-ismail-arrested-for-attacks.htm

smail alias Zakiruallah, a Punjabi from Faridkot in Pakistan who was arrested by the Mumbai police on Wednesday night during the terror attacks, is giving interrogators the complete story of how the sensational terror operation was planned and executed.


He has told the Mumbai police that he has been trained by the Lashkar e Tayiba, said police sources while giving chilling details of the most daring terror attack in India that has so far killed 101 people -- and the horror story is not over, yet.


rediff.com, with help of political and governmental sources in New Delhi [Images] and Mumbai, including from intelligence, has pieced together the government's thinking on the matter.

First and foremost, Indian intelligence is more or less conceding that the shocking attacks in Mumbai represent a major success for the Lashkar.


Second, the operation is not solely directed against foreign nationals in Mumbai, as some reports have claimed. The large number of deaths of Mumbaikars suggests that they have fired indiscriminately, and revenge was on their mind.


The terrorist arrested by the Mumbai police is vehemently opposed to Isreal's action in the Middle-East and is upset about the "treatment" of Muslims in India in general According to sources, the ethnic, Punjabi-speaking Ismail has told the Mumbai police that the issue of "injustice" to Muslims in India by Hindus and the Indian establishment inspired him to pick up arms.

So far, one Greek, one German couple, two American intelligence officials, and a French man are dead, it is confirmed.


Intelligence sources also claimed to redif.com that it is likely that the Pakistani national terrorist wanted to remind Indians that their hotels can also face a similar fate as Hotel Marriott, Islamabad [Images]. In a terror attack in September, a suicide bomber rammed his truck into the Marriott, killing more than 60 people.


It is clear from the selection of the spots attacked that the terrorists wanted to show India in as bad a light as Pakistan. The entire show was to prove that India is facing no less of anarchy than its western neighbour. The Indian system is making its people feel as insecure as Pakistanis feel due to their weak systems, was the message the masterminds of the terror attack wanted to convey.

The high-level sources also say that Al Qaeda's [Images] ideology has been imbibed by innumerable small and regional outfits, but only the LeT can manage a Mumbai kind of operation, so there are more chances of the LeT's hand and brain being behind this operation.


As it has happened many times before, according to sources in the home ministry, in the third week of September India had received information from American sources that there could be a large-scale operation within India by the Lashkar e Tayiba. A source in the home ministry also claimed that the Research and Analysis Wing had passed on this information to the Intelligence Bureau and in turn they had sent this information to the Maharashtra police.


Again, some six days later, the information was circulated from New Delhi to Mumbai police that hotels in Mumbai will be targeted by the Lashkar. The police source claims that the name of Taj Mahal Hotel [Images] was specifically mentioned. Accordingly, the hotel's security had been increased but in two months time that have fallen into a routine, it seems.


Also, on the basis of vague information the local police has no time to build up the entire case of a possible terror act, says the same source. Since information like this is vague, the police now claims that it is very difficult to act upon it.


A senior officer of the ministry told rediff.com that one of the top Lashkar operatives, Yousuf Muzamil, has most probably directed the entire terror attack. The Lashkar has changed its name to Jamaat ud Dawa and is headed by Hafeez Mohammed Saeed and is headquartered in Muzaffarabad, Pakistan Occupied Kashmir.

According to information collected by the police, on Wednesday evening, around 10 Pakistanis came by speed boats to the coast near Colaba in South Mumbai from Karachi. From fishing trawls they shifted to dinghies to reach Mumbai, and the transfer took place somewhere near Gujarat. Alert and smart fisherfolk could notice that some unknown characters in casual clothes had alighted. They were surprised to see unknown faces and the unusually large bags they were carrying.


Immediately they drew the attention of the local policemen from the nearby police post at Budhwar Park, Colaba. Within two hours of the fishermen's complaint to the police the terrorists had struck at Taj Mahal Hotel and at Trident hotel, Nariman House owned by Jews, and in Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus [Images] and a few other places. It was a meticulous and well-planned operation which has given the perpetrators of the horrific act a tremendous boost.


While in Trident hotel between four and seven terrorists were involved, while in Taj Mahal hotel three to four terrorists created havoc. According to Ismail, there no Arabs in their group.


The Mumbai police has got information that some six-seven days back terrorists had made a dry run also. This act leads to them believe that some local people could be involved in the terror attack, too. 


At this point in time the police believes that at least one terrorists has managed to escape.


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## XYON

Typically Indian - Ignore your home-grown terrorists and just pretend that they do not exist.

Typically Indian - Blame everything on 'external' hands! Call all terrorists within 'foreigners' in order to pass the blame.

Typically Indian - Shout 'Jai Hind', 'Incredible India' etc etc and live in a self-induced hypnotic illusion that all is well in the Bharat Mata!

Typically Indian - Forget it after a few days of hoopla!

Sorry but I do not buy what Manmohan Singh has said about the element for foreign elements involved in this sad incident. This is an INDIAN HOME-GROWN problem and not something cooked elsewhere in the neighborhood to which the Indian PM has refered so fluently and by force of habit!

Condolences on the loss of life, where ever it may be!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Munir

bellicose.mcbein said:


> nothing like waking up to THIS on my radio alarm in the morning. godspeed to the indian commandos!



What makes you come and shout empty statements? Another Indian with wrong picture and wrong name? Are ou guys ashamed of your proud Indian heritage?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Goodperson

shchinese said:


> how about crap like this:
> 
> Prime Minister's Office
> 
> by your war lover PM
> 
> I would also be happy to know the real meaning of what does the word "cost" mean. another war with Pakistan? or maybe India is asking to have some DF-15 field tests on its land?



You really need to understand politics, do not ignore if's and buts, you need to ponder over history of India and neighbors.

Indian PM's address to nation.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/11/27/arena.india.terrorist.cnn


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## Goodperson

epool said:


> Typically Indian - Ignore your home-grown terrorists and just pretend that they do not exist.
> 
> Typically Indian - Blame everything on 'external' hands! Call all terrorists within 'foreigners' in order to pass the blame.
> 
> Typically Indian - Shout 'Jai Hind', 'Incredible India' etc etc and live in a self-induced hypnotic illusion that all is well in the Bharat Mata!
> 
> Typically Indian - Forget it after a few days of hoopla!
> 
> Sorry but I do not buy what Manmohan Singh has said about the element for foreign elements involved in this sad incident. This is an INDIAN HOME-GROWN problem and not something cooked elsewhere in the neighborhood to which the Indian PM has refered so fluently and by force of habit!
> 
> Condolences on the loss of life, where ever it may be!



http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/11/27/arena.india.terrorist.cnn

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com


----------



## Munir

Kumar said:


> Exclusive: LeT terrorist Ismail arrested in Mumbai
> LeT terrorist Ismail arrested in Mumbai
> 
> smail alias Zakiruallah, a Punjabi from Faridkot in Pakistan who was arrested by the Mumbai police on Wednesday night during the terror attacks, is giving interrogators the complete story of how the sensational terror operation was planned and executed.
> 
> 
> He has told the Mumbai police that he has been trained by the Lashkar e Tayiba, said police sources while giving chilling details of the most daring terror attack in India that has so far killed 101 people -- and the horror story is not over, yet.
> 
> 
> rediff.com, with help of political and governmental sources in New Delhi [Images] and Mumbai, including from intelligence, has pieced together the government's thinking on the matter.
> 
> First and foremost, Indian intelligence is more or less conceding that the shocking attacks in Mumbai represent a major success for the Lashkar.
> 
> 
> Second, the operation is not solely directed against foreign nationals in Mumbai, as some reports have claimed. The large number of deaths of Mumbaikars suggests that they have fired indiscriminately, and revenge was on their mind.
> 
> 
> The terrorist arrested by the Mumbai police is vehemently opposed to Isreal's action in the Middle-East and is upset about the "treatment" of Muslims in India in general According to sources, the ethnic, Punjabi-speaking Ismail has told the Mumbai police that the issue of "injustice" to Muslims in India by Hindus and the Indian establishment inspired him to pick up arms.
> 
> So far, one Greek, one German couple, two American intelligence officials, and a French man are dead, it is confirmed.
> 
> 
> Intelligence sources also claimed to redif.com that it is likely that the Pakistani national terrorist wanted to remind Indians that their hotels can also face a similar fate as Hotel Marriott, Islamabad [Images]. In a terror attack in September, a suicide bomber rammed his truck into the Marriott, killing more than 60 people.
> 
> 
> It is clear from the selection of the spots attacked that the terrorists wanted to show India in as bad a light as Pakistan. The entire show was to prove that India is facing no less of anarchy than its western neighbour. The Indian system is making its people feel as insecure as Pakistanis feel due to their weak systems, was the message the masterminds of the terror attack wanted to convey.
> 
> The high-level sources also say that Al Qaeda's [Images] ideology has been imbibed by innumerable small and regional outfits, but only the LeT can manage a Mumbai kind of operation, so there are more chances of the LeT's hand and brain being behind this operation.
> 
> 
> As it has happened many times before, according to sources in the home ministry, in the third week of September India had received information from American sources that there could be a large-scale operation within India by the Lashkar e Tayiba. A source in the home ministry also claimed that the Research and Analysis Wing had passed on this information to the Intelligence Bureau and in turn they had sent this information to the Maharashtra police.
> 
> 
> Again, some six days later, the information was circulated from New Delhi to Mumbai police that hotels in Mumbai will be targeted by the Lashkar. The police source claims that the name of Taj Mahal Hotel [Images] was specifically mentioned. Accordingly, the hotel's security had been increased but in two months time that have fallen into a routine, it seems.
> 
> 
> Also, on the basis of vague information the local police has no time to build up the entire case of a possible terror act, says the same source. Since information like this is vague, the police now claims that it is very difficult to act upon it.
> 
> 
> A senior officer of the ministry told rediff.com that one of the top Lashkar operatives, Yousuf Muzamil, has most probably directed the entire terror attack. The Lashkar has changed its name to Jamaat ud Dawa and is headed by Hafeez Mohammed Saeed and is headquartered in Muzaffarabad, Pakistan Occupied Kashmir.
> 
> According to information collected by the police, on Wednesday evening, around 10 Pakistanis came by speed boats to the coast near Colaba in South Mumbai from Karachi. From fishing trawls they shifted to dinghies to reach Mumbai, and the transfer took place somewhere near Gujarat. Alert and smart fisherfolk could notice that some unknown characters in casual clothes had alighted. They were surprised to see unknown faces and the unusually large bags they were carrying.
> 
> 
> Immediately they drew the attention of the local policemen from the nearby police post at Budhwar Park, Colaba. Within two hours of the fishermen's complaint to the police the terrorists had struck at Taj Mahal Hotel and at Trident hotel, Nariman House owned by Jews, and in Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus [Images] and a few other places. It was a meticulous and well-planned operation which has given the perpetrators of the horrific act a tremendous boost.
> 
> 
> While in Trident hotel between four and seven terrorists were involved, while in Taj Mahal hotel three to four terrorists created havoc. According to Ismail, there no Arabs in their group.
> 
> 
> The Mumbai police has got information that some six-seven days back terrorists had made a dry run also. This act leads to them believe that some local people could be involved in the terror attack, too.
> 
> 
> At this point in time the police believes that at least one terrorists has managed to escape.



You guys even faked attacks or ID's... You guys come up with an Atlantique being dangerous above the Pakistani swamp. You guys keep our soldiers in jail and either torture or slit their tongue... I hardly believe our statements oand frankly I have some doubts in the intellectual capcity of these journalists... If you torture a person long enough he will say that he was born as a chicken but now is mother cow...


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## shchinese

> is upset *about the "treatment" of Muslims in India in general According to sources, the ethnic, Punjabi-speaking Ismail has told the Mumbai police that the issue of "injustice" to Muslims in India by Hindus and the Indian establishment inspired him to pick up arms*.



source here

see, everything is now against your policies.


----------



## dabong1

This is a clear attack by terrorist......not militants,insurgents,freedom fighters.
The indian govt should shoot the whole bunch of bast*rtds and send therm to hell.

My only concern is the quickness in which the indians started blaming pakistan....no proof no evidence...nothing.

I am pretty sure this attack involves indian army/RAW......they planned it and carried it out to take the media light off the indian army bombing the train ect.


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## Kumar

These arrested Terrorists should be hanged infront of India Gate.


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## Kumar

This is not Indian journalists.

Breaking News | Latest News | Current News - FOXNews.com


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## fatman17

*Chopra: Attack prompts tough questions Story Highlights*

"This is a global problem," author Deepak Chopra says

Barack Obama must use chance to get Muslims' help, he says

Officials must not go after the wrong people, Chopra says

(CNN) -- The Indian city of Mumbai exploded into chaos early Thursday morning as gunmen launched a series of attacks across the country's commercial capital, killing scores of people and taking hostages in two luxury hotels frequented by Westerners.


Deepak Chopra says extremists could be reacting to Barack Obama's gestures toward Muslims.

CNN's Larry King spoke with author Deepak Chopra about the situation.

Larry King: Let's go to Dr. Deepak Chopra, the physician, philosopher. His new book is "Jesus: A Story of Enlightenment."

Where were you born in India, Deepak?

Deepak Chopra: I was born in Delhi, but I have been in these hotels many, many times. I have stayed there, so I know the scene; I know the restaurants. I have been trying to get in touch with my friends and relatives, some of whom I have spoken to, some of whom I can't speak to. The lines are jammed. We're texting each other.

A friend of mine from Egypt was in the restaurant at the Taj hotel when the firing started, and somehow she managed to avoid the fray, hid in a basement and is now holed up in a room which is right next to the Taj hotel and is waiting to be told what to do.

The situation is complex, Larry, because it could inflame to proportions that we cannot even imagine. It has to be contained. We now recognize that this is a global problem, with only a global effort can solve this.

*And you know, one of the things that I think is happening is that these militant terrorist groups are actually terrified that [President-elect Barack] Obama's gestures to the rest of the Muslim world may actually overturn the tables on them by alienating them from the rest of the Muslim world, so they're reacting to this.*

You know, this is Obama's opportunity to actually harness the help of the Muslims.

*You know, there's 1.8 billion Muslims in the world. That's 25 percent of the population of the world. It's the fastest-growing religion in the world. We cannot, if we do not appease and actually recruit the help of this Muslim world, we're going to have a problem on our hands*.

*And we cannot go after the wrong people, as we did after 9/11, because then the whole collateral damage that occurs actually aggravates the situation.*

*In India, this is particularly inflammatory, because there's a rise of Hindu fundamentalism. We saw what that did in Gujarat, where, you know, Muslims were scorched and they were killed, and there was almost a genocide of the Muslims.*

*India has 150 million Muslims. That's more Muslims in India than in Pakistan. So this is an opportunity right now for India and Pakistan to recognize this is their common problem. It's not a Muslim problem right now; it's a global problem.*

King: Do you think that this is just the beginning, that there's a potential impact, or more?

*Chopra: There is a potential impact of a lot more carnage. But it can be contained. And right now, one of the questions, you know, after I heard Barbara Starr talking about how coordinated this is, that there are militant groups that cross international boundaries, is who is financing this? Where is the money coming from? We have to ask very serious, honest questions. What role do we have in this? Are our petrodollars funding both sides of this war on terrorism? Why are we not asking the Saudis where that money is going that we give them? Is it going through this supply chain to Pakistan?*

*It's not enough for Pakistan to condemn it. Pakistan should cooperate with India in uprooting this. They should be part of the surgery that is going to happen.*

*It's not enough for Indians to blame Pakistanis. Indians should actually ask the Pakistanis to help them.*

And it's not enough for us to worry about Westerners being killed and Americans being killed. Every life is precious over there. We have got to get rid of this idea that this is an American problem or a Western problem. *It's a global problem, and we need a global solution, and we need the help of all the Muslims, 25 percent of the world's population, to help us uproot this problem.*

King: What does India immediately do?

*Chopra: India at this moment has to contain any reactive violence from the fundamentalist Hindus, which is very likely and possible. So India has to condemn that by not blaming local Muslims. They have to identify the exact groups.*

*And the world has to be very careful that they don't go after the wrong people. Because if you go after the wrong people, you convert moderates into extremists. It happens every time, and retribution against innocent people just because they have the same religion actually aggravates and perpetuates the problem.*

King: Are you pessimistic?

Chopra: I think Mr. Obama has a real opportunity here, but a challenging opportunity, a creative opportunity.

Get rid of the phrase "war on terrorism." Ask for a creative solution in which we all participate.

King: Is it because the war on terrorism really can never be won because the terrorists (inaudible)?

Chopra: Because it's an oxymoron. It's an oxymoron, Larry, a war on war, a war on terrorism.

You know, terrorists call mechanized death from 35,000 feet above sea level with a press of a button also terror. We don't call it that, because our soldiers are wearing uniforms. They don't see what is happening, and innocent people are being killed. So, you know, terror is a term that you apply to the other.

King: Thanks, Deepak Chopra, as always, extraordinarily enlightening.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Goodperson

Munir said:


> You guys even faked attacks or ID's... You guys come up with an Atlantique being dangerous above the Pakistani swamp. You guys keep our soldiers in jail and either torture or slit their tongue... I hardly believe our statements oand frankly I have some doubts in the intellectual capcity of these journalists... If you torture a person long enough he will say that he was born as a chicken but now is mother cow...



What do you want to believe attacks never happened ?
News of terrorist arrested has been out since early morning If you read my earlier post investigation agencies will surely grill him but he may not be the mastermind behind the attacks.


----------



## shchinese

Kumar said:


> These arrested Terrorists should be hanged infront of India Gate.



how about the terrorist that your government is hosting in your own country? for example the TYC.


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## Imran Khan

Kumar said:


> These arrested Terrorists should be hanged infront of India Gate.



why are you live in afghanistan.its its india bro cool down


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## batmannow

Goodperson said:


> Terrorist are cowards period. The only shoot and kill innocent and unarmed people including women and kids.



agreed , but they cant be potrayed only muslims, muslims doesnt kill "INDRA GHANDHI", "RAJEEV GHANDHI" WHO DID IT? i guss everybody knows?


----------



## Halaku Khan

Here is my gut feeling about this episode (don't ask me for evidence because I am saying upfront that it is a gut feel):

I think the Pakistani establishment would have been smart enough not to attack the Jewish Chabad center. So I don't think that this operation was officially approved (unlike the 1993 bombings by Tiger Memon and Dawood, which probably had the bessings of the establishment).

However, I also think it very likely that the arming, training, financing was done by organizations like the LeT, although some of the foot-soldiers may have been Indian recruits. (For those who deny that this happens I will remind them of the Ishrat Jehan case of 2004.)

Yet the Pakistani establishment is certainly not blameless because these Jihadi organizations are supported at least partly by the establishment.


----------



## shchinese

Kumar said:


> This is not Indian journalists.
> 
> Breaking News | Latest News | Current News - FOXNews.com



brainwashed people watches fox news. 

have a look at the following video and tell me why we free people should trust the crap told by foxnews? 

YouTube - Fox News: 12 Year Old Girl Truth about Georgia


----------



## bellicose.mcbein

Munir said:


> What makes you come and shout empty statements? Another Indian with wrong picture and wrong name? Are ou guys ashamed of your proud Indian heritage?



what... is... wrong with your head.


----------



## Kumar

shchinese said:


> how about the terrorist that your government is hosting in your own country? for example the TYC.



Yes. Any action against a elected democratic govt or innocent people in the name of freedom fighting or terrorists should be hanged.


----------



## Kumar

batmannow said:


> agreed , but they cant be potrayed only muslims, muslims doesnt kill "INDRA GHANDHI", "RAJEEV GHANDHI" WHO DID IT? i guss everybody knows?



Who killed BB ?


----------



## BanglaBhoot

*Sophisticated Attacks, but Al Qaeda Link Disputed *

HONG KONG  They came wearing black hoods, firing automatic weapons and throwing grenades. They took hostages and attacked two hotels, a café, a train station and other popular and undefended soft targets.

Who are they? The answer to that question remained in dispute Thursday as security officials and experts attempted to untangle the few clues to the attackers likely identity. But there was a general agreement that the nature of the attacks seemed a marked departure from other recent terror assaults in India. In earlier attacks, assailants used much cruder tactics, for instance leaving bombs planted on bicycles in crowded markets.

This time, the assault was uniquely disturbing, said Sajjan Gohel, a security expert in London, because it seemed directed at foreigners, involved hostage-taking and was aimed at multiple soft, symbolic targets. The attacks aimed to create maximum terror and human carnage and damage the economy, he said in a telephone interview.

The hostage-taking was the first involving an Indian terrorist group and affecting foreigners since the 1999 hijacking of an Air India flight to Afghanistan.

The identity of the Mumbai attackers remained a mystery.

An e-mail message to Indian media outlets that claimed responsibility for the bloody attacks in Mumbai on Wednesday night said the militants were from the Deccan Mujahedeen. Almost universally, experts and intelligence officials said that name was unknown.

Deccan is a neighborhood of the Indian city of Hyderabad. The word also describes the middle and south of India, which is dominated by the Deccan Plateau. Mujahedeen is the commonly used Arabic word for holy fighters. But the combination of the two, said Mr. Gohel in London, is a front name. This group is nonexistent.

Some global terrorism experts with experience in South Asia said that, based on the tactics used in the attacks, the group was probably not linked to Al Qaeda  although that assertion was challenged by other analysts.

Its even unclear whether its a real group or not, said Bruce Hoffman, a professor at the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University and the author of the book Inside Terrorism.

That theory was echoed by an Indian security official who spoke in return for anonymity because he was not authorized to be identified and who said the name suggested ties to a group called Indian Mujahedeen, which has been implicated in a string of bombing attacks in India killing around 200 people this year alone.

On Sept. 15, an e-mail published in Indian newspapers and said to have been sent by representatives of Indian Muhajedeen threatened potential deadly attacks in Mumbai. The message warned counter-terrorism officials in the city that you are already on our hit-list and this time very, very seriously.

Several high-ranking law enforcement officials, including the chief of the antiterrorism squad and a commissioner of police, were reported killed.

Christine Fair, senior political scientist and a South Asia expert at the RAND Corporation, was careful to say that the identity of the terrorists could not yet be known. But she insisted the style of the attacks and the targets in Mumbai suggested the militants were likely to be Indian Muslims and not linked to Al Qaeda or Lashkar-e-Taiba, another violent South Asian terrorist group.

Theres absolutely nothing Al Qaeda-like about it, she said of the attack. Did you see any suicide bombers? And there are no fingerprints of Lashkar. They dont do hostage-taking and they dont do grenades. By contrast, Mr. Gohel in London said the fingerprints point to an Islamic Al Qaeda-affiliated terrorist group.

Mr. Hoffman he said the attacks, which he called tactical, sophisticated and coordinated, perhaps pointed to a broader organization behind the perpetrators. The Indian Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh, said the attacks probably had external linkages.

The Indian security official said the attackers likely had ties to Lashkar-e-Taiba, a guerrilla group run by Pakistani intelligence in the conflict with India in the disputed territory of Kashmir. India blamed that group for a suicide assault on its Parliament by gunmen in December, 2001 that led to a perilous military standoff with Pakistan.

The Indian official also suggested the attackers might have emerged from an outlawed militant group of Islamic students. Photographs from security cameras showed some youthful attackers carrying assault rifles and smiling as they launched the operation.

There are a lot of very, very angry Muslims in India, Ms. Fair said, The economic disparities are startling and India has been very slow to publicly embrace its rising Muslim problem. You cannot put lipstick on this pig. This is a major domestic political challenge for India.

The public political face of India says, Our Muslims have not been radicalized. But the Indian intelligence apparatus knows thats not true. Indias Muslim communities are being sucked into the global landscape of Islamist jihad, she said. Indians will have a strong incentive to link this to Al Qaeda. Al Qaedas in your toilet! But this is a domestic issue. This is not Indias 9/11.

That, too, was disputed by the Indian official. This was Mumbais 9/11, he said. The consequences of the attack, the official said, may be to disrupt any overtures to Pakistan and to ignite a backlash against Indian Muslims.

Reflecting a widespread assessment in Pakistan, Moonis Ahmar, a professor of international relations at Karachi University, called the attacks a well-thought out conspiracy designed to destabilize relations between India and Pakistan and sabotage efforts at reconciliation.

Hindus make up about 80 percent of Indias 1.13 billion population and Muslims 13.4 percent. Experts disputed the complexity of the operation.

Mr. Hoffman said: These arent just a bunch of radical guys coming together to cause mayhem.

This takes a different skill set. It doesnt take much skill to make a bomb. This is not just pressing a button as a suicide bomber and dying. You dont learn this over the Internet.

But Ms. Fair did not agree that the attacks on Wednesday necessarily required deep planning and training.

This wasnt something that required a logistical mastermind, she said. These were not hardened targets. A huge train station with zero security. Two hotels with no security, both owned by Indians. Leopolds Café. How hard is it, really? Its not rocket science.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/28/world/asia/28group.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&hp


----------



## batmannow

Goodperson said:


> What do you want to believe attacks never happened ?
> News of terrorist arrested has been out since early morning If you read my earlier post investigation agencies will surely grill him but he may not be the mastermind behind the attacks.



Goodperson; sir
it would be very funny that, if that "arrested terrorist" accepts , that he is from pakistan!
how about CIA's role in this , funniest terrorists acts, lets disscuss it?


----------



## Kumar

shchinese said:


> brainwashed people watches fox news.
> 
> have a look at the following video and tell me why we free people should trust the crap told by foxnews?
> 
> YouTube - Fox News: 12 Year Old Girl Truth about Georgia



Tell me the news channel you believe i will get you the link.

You guys don't believe Indian journalists and american. so which one you believe ?


----------



## shchinese

Kumar said:


> Yes. Any action against a elected democratic govt or innocent people in the name of freedom fighting or terrorists should be hanged.



but your government is hosting the TYC.

I would like to support your war on terror. I would like to see more people to support your war on terror. however when I think about your dual standard on terror, I have to say : you got all these crap on yourself.


----------



## batmannow

Kumar said:


> Who killed BB ?



CIA!


----------



## Imran Khan

Kumar said:


> Tell me the news channel you believe i will get you the link.
> 
> You guys don't believe Indian journalists and american. so which one you believe ?



i beleve PTV


----------



## shchinese

Kumar said:


> Tell me the news channel you believe i will get you the link.
> 
> You guys don't believe Indian journalists and american. so which one you believe ?



I am not saying I don't believe American media. I am telling your that CNN/BBC/Foxnews are all highly biased. they are big media outlet there, but they are not the entire free media we have. 

Please stop posting anything from Foxnews, that is the worst. and their proven record has been just presented to you in that interview video. This is something you can't deny. This is something no one can ever deny. Fox news proved itself to be highly biased.


----------



## fatman17

Halaku Khan said:


> Here is my gut feeling about this episode (don't ask me for evidence because I am saying upfront that it is a gut feel):
> 
> I think the Pakistani establishment would have been smart enough not to attack the Jewish Chabad center. So I don't think that this operation was officially approved (unlike the 1993 bombings by Tiger Memon and Dawood, which probably had the bessings of the establishment).
> 
> However, I also think it very likely that the arming, training, financing was done by organizations like the LeT, although some of the foot-soldiers may have been Indian recruits. (For those who deny that this happens I will remind them of the Ishrat Jehan case of 2004.)
> 
> Yet the Pakistani establishment is certainly not blameless because these Jihadi organizations are supported at least partly by the establishment.



according to Jason Burke of the Guardian, a terrorist expert says it may take 3-6 months to get to the bottom of this terrorist attack or maybe never due to the complexity of this incident.


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## Kumar

ABU ISMAIL From FARIDKOT PAKISTAN IS THE PROOF. 

every time pakistan asked for proof .

Now this time pakistan will take action If he is handed over to PAK ?


----------



## shchinese

Kumar said:


> ABU ISMAIL From FARIDKOT PAKISTAN IS THE PROOF.



yeah, we finally got something which we can agree with each other. He is the proof. he used some very illegal and stupid manner to tell the world how Muslims are treated badly in India. 

I don't support what he did and I believe he should be locked up for life if he had his hand on this attack.


----------



## Neo

Reported gun battle at Taj, another explosion heard.
I thought Taj was secured.


----------



## Kumar

shchinese said:


> I am not saying I don't believe American media. I am telling your that CNN/BBC/Foxnews are all highly biased. they are big media outlet there, but they are not the entire free media we have.
> 
> Please stop posting anything from Foxnews, that is the worst. and their proven record has been just presented to you in that interview video. This is something you can't deny. This is something no one can ever deny. Fox news proved itself to be highly biased.



Can you post some links from your free media ? They have one or they don't.
Or its just only on Paper.


----------



## s90

Oye what happened about Indian Navy commando intercepting mission? 

*Coast Guard locates suspected terrorist ship M V Alpha*

MUMBAI: M V Alpha, a ship which is suspected to have carried the perpetrators of the Mumbai terror attacks, was today found 112 km from here by the 
Coast Guard, officials said. 

A CG spokesman said that searches were being carried out on board the ship but declined to elaborate. 

The Coast Guard had launched two aircraft, choppers and its vessels after receiving information that the ship could have carried the terrorists from Gujarat to Mumbai.


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## batmannow

Kumar said:


> ABU ISMAIL From FARIDKOT PAKISTAN IS THE PROOF.
> 
> every time pakistan asked for proof .
> 
> Now this time pakistan will take action If he is handed over to PAK ?



Kumar; SIR
surly , he should be investigated , jointly by a world investigation team, in which india & pakistan should be given fair representation.
its very important, because the next time it could be happen in karachi or in lahore, then what?
if he is from , pakistan then he should not be killed!
because if that happens , then there would not be any proof!


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## shchinese

Kumar said:


> Can you post some links from your free media ? They have one or they don't.
> Or its just only on Paper.



I don't care. everything is now dead clear: India treated Muslims badly and in return it got this attack which killed 101 people. Indian PM is now threating war on its neighbors. 

what else we need here? this is a forum where everyone is entitled to have its own opinion, this is the not federal court of India.

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## shchinese

s90 said:


> Oye what happened about Indian Navy commando intercepting mission?
> 
> *Coast Guard locates suspected terrorist ship M V Alpha*
> 
> MUMBAI: M V Alpha, a ship which is suspected to have carried the perpetrators of the Mumbai terror attacks, was today found 112 km from here by the
> Coast Guard, officials said.
> 
> A CG spokesman said that searches were being carried out on board the ship but declined to elaborate.
> 
> The Coast Guard had launched two aircraft, choppers and its vessels after receiving information that the ship could have carried the terrorists from Gujarat to Mumbai.



when they got such attack, the whole armed forces want some fair share of the media focus.


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## Awesome

Kumar said:


> ABU ISMAIL From FARIDKOT PAKISTAN IS THE PROOF.
> 
> every time pakistan asked for proof .
> 
> Now this time pakistan will take action If he is handed over to PAK ?


Why should we believe he's from Pakistan?

Unless the government of Pakistan tells me otherwise...

You need to hand over the evidence to Pak investigators and let them come to a conclusion.

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## s90

*Indian naval official will not rule out Somali pirates role*

KOCHI: A top Indian naval official has said that he would not rule out the role of Somali pirates in the terror strikes in Mumbai in view of the 
recent action by the Navy against the sea bandits in the Gulf of Aden.

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## Munir

bellicose.mcbein said:


> what... is... wrong with your head.



Less then yours...

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## shchinese

s90 said:


> *Indian naval official will not rule out Somali pirates role*
> 
> KOCHI: A top Indian naval official has said that he would not rule out the role of Somali pirates in the terror strikes in Mumbai in view of the
> recent action by the Navy against the sea bandits in the Gulf of Aden.





now I officially rule out the last possibility that the general mentioned above has an IQ of 100+.


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## s90

Kumar said:


> ABU ISMAIL From FARIDKOT PAKISTAN IS THE PROOF.
> 
> every time pakistan asked for proof .
> 
> Now this time pakistan will take action If he is handed over to PAK ?



Another big game here,its not first time they doing this finger pointing

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## fatman17

Kumar said:


> ABU ISMAIL From FARIDKOT PAKISTAN IS THE PROOF.
> 
> every time pakistan asked for proof .
> 
> Now this time pakistan will take action If he is handed over to PAK ?



pakistanis generally dont have such names! sounds middle-eastern!


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## Flintlock

-Army GOC : Arrested Terrorist says he's from Faridkot, Pakistan.

-Army GOC: Phone Intercepts show terrorists speaking in Punjabi.

-Terrorists tried to pretend they were from Hyderabad. 

-Total of 20 terrorists\

-Total dead: 125 including 14 foreigners. 

-General Manager of Taj Palace shot dead along with his wife and 2 daughters.


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## s90

shchinese said:


> now I officially rule out the last possibility that the general mentioned above has an IQ of 100+.



I agree   well i think Pakistan should help india in investigation because it looks like they need some real help


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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> -Army GOC : Arrested Terrorist says he's from Faridkot, Pakistan.
> 
> -Army GOC: Phone Intercepts show terrorists speaking in Punjabi.
> 
> -Terrorists tried to pretend they were from Hyderabad.
> 
> -Total of 20 terrorists
> 
> -


What kind of operatives are these that they blurt out everything that would just mess up the operation? After attacking a whole city they surrender?

What they didn't find Milk Pak cartons this time? No butterscotch toffee? No Polka ice cream wrappers?

Indians have sung this tune so many times. Its always the same old, same old.

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## Munir

fatman17 said:


> pakistanis generally dont have such names! sounds middle-eastern!



He looks like an Indian... Am I pushing a lot more then accepted then if I say that he is an Indian terrorist like all others?


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## Patriot

shchinese said:


> I am not saying I don't believe American media. I am telling your that CNN/BBC/Foxnews are all highly biased. they are big media outlet there, but they are not the entire free media we have.
> 
> Please stop posting anything from Foxnews, that is the worst. and their proven record has been just presented to you in that interview video. This is something you can't deny. This is something no one can ever deny. Fox news proved itself to be highly biased.


Indians won't learn and grow up, its in their nature. Deep inside they still are not over with 1947 partition and they certainly have not forgotten how China kicked India's butt during war.Blaming Pakistan again and again for everything.The easiest way out is to blame Pakistan. Have you watched "Phir Bhi Dil Hai Hindustani"? Even in the movie when they catch an alleged terrorist they conspire to blame it on Pakistan for the benefit of the media. I wonder when the international community is gonna grow tired of them crying "Pakistan" everytime Manmohan Singh pisses his pants!


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## Vinod2070

To all trolls this tragedy is funny, an occasion to smile!


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## Neo

Asim Aquil said:


> Why should we believe he's from Pakistan?
> 
> Unless the government of Pakistan tells me otherwise...
> 
> You need to hand over the evidence to Pak investigators and let them come to a conclusion.



Indian intelligence fails big time whenever there's a terrorist attack but whithin hours she comes up with a Pakistani as main suspect. 
Sofar the credibility of the investigation...

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## Munir

Vinod2070 said:


> To all trolls this tragedy is funny, an occasion to smile!



aaa... Vinod... A real troll starts calling others a troll. You might feel the end of the line now... Reporting you.

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## fatman17

Witnesses describe Mumbai attackers' arrival by sea 

Officials believe militants launched dinghies from a mothership to arrive 'on a one-way ticket'

Maseeh Rahman in Delhi 
guardian.co.uk, Thursday November 27 2008 13.23 GMT 

Eyewitnesses have provided accounts of how the gunmen involved in yesterday's Mumbai massacre landed undetected in the heart of the port city's bustling downtown area.

At least some of the terrorists, said to be in their early twenties and armed with AK-47 assault rifles and hand grenades, landed on the coast of Mumbai's commercial and entertainment neighbourhood in light and fast Gemini boats, powered by small outboard motors.

These inflatable dinghies, according to Indian navy sources quoted by the Headlines Today TV news channel, were launched from a larger vessel, the MV Alfa, which arrived near Mumbai sometime yesterday and anchored offshore a distance from India's financial capital.

According to TV reports, the navy seized one Gemini craft laden with ammunition, as well as satellite phone, which could give vital clues about the attackers.

The navy, the news channel reported, became suspicious of the ship only on intercepting wireless communications in the region after the lethal assault began around 9.40pm (4.10pm GMT) last night.

By this time the vessel had left the vicinity of Mumbai. When first reported by the news channel today, the MV Alfa was said to be off the Gujarat coast and heading towards Pakistan. The navy was reported to be in pursuit of the ship, although this could not be independently verified.

Indian TV news channels provided eyewitness accounts from people who saw the armed attackers land in Mumbai.

"It was around 9.15 last night when I saw a speedboat with eight men on board come close to the shore," a man told Times Now TV today. The man appeared to be a resident of the Colaba fishermen's village, minutes away from the Taj Mahal, one of two luxury hotels in Mumbai taken over by the terrorists.

"Six young men with large bags came ashore, after which the two who remained in the boat started the outboard motor again and sped off," he added. "They were fair, chikna (well-off) and looked around 20, 22, 25 years old. They said they were students. When we tried to find out what they were doing, they spoke very aggressively, and I got scared."

Two boys and an older woman from the same neighbourhood spoke to CNN-IBN. "When we tried to talk to them, they rudely said, 'What do you want? Do your own work', and walked away," the two boys said. "They were carrying large bags &#8211; one bag was orange coloured."

"They told me that they had come by sea from Kerala," the older woman added.

The Leopold Cafe, popular with foreign backpackers, which was the first target of the terrorist strike, is also located close to the Colaba fishermen's village, as is Nariman House, which was taken over by the gunmen and the first three floors of which are occupied by Israeli tourists.

"There is no question that the armed men who landed in south Mumbai in the Gemini boats came from a larger boat anchored off shore," said retired Rear Admiral Raja Menon, a strategic affairs expert. "The larger boat left without waiting for the men to return. The armed men were on a one-way ticket."

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## Awesome

Vinod2070 said:


> To all trolls this tragedy is funny, an occasion to smile!


You think anyone is laughing out of glee? We are not Laughing about you, we're laughing AT you. We have seen this episode before. This is like some re-run. They are never able to catch a terrorist before. But within one day they pull out Abu Ismail out of their ***** and he is usually the mastermind, so he has credibility.

This is not us smiling, this us going WTF?


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## Munir

Neo said:


> Indian intelligence fails big time whenever there's a terrorist attack but whithin hours she comes up with a Pakistani as main suspect.
> Sofar the credibility of the investigation...



How come they couldn't predict the attack. How come that so many people are killed and they still had a shock and within hours they knew who did it...

WOW, Decades late in military programs but faster then light in blaiming others.


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## Flintlock

I don't expect Pakistani to believe that the terrorists are Pakistanis under any circumstances. The fact is that you will refuse to believe it and pull out an umpteen number of inane reasons why.

There is no point arguing.

As far as I'm concerned, unless the information changes, they are from Pakistan.

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## BanglaBhoot

*Pakistan warns against jumping to quick conclusions*

NEW DELHI: As Prime Minister Manmohan Singh accused India's neighbours for the terror attack, Pakistan warned against jumping to conclusions and
``making insinuations against each other''.

Pakistani foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi, who is in the middle of a four-day visit to India, condemned the Mumbai shootings but warned against jumping to quick conclusions. ``Today you are victims. We are victims of terrorism on a daily basis. We must cooperate at this time instead of making insinuations against each other," Mr Qureshi was quoted as saying. "It's a very sad incident but lets not jump to conclusions and cut a sorry figure. Let's show maturity. We will cooperate, I can assure you," he added.

The Zardari government has continued to say that it is also a victim of terrorism. Mr Qureishi, who offered to establish a hotline between the intelligence chiefs of the two countries for information sharing, referred to the Samjhauta blast. "The Samjhauta incident very clearly indicates that we have to be cautious. Our expressions and our insinuations have to be measured. Pakistan wants to cooperate. We have to face the common enemy in terrorism and it is a global challenge," he was quoted as saying.

But the Mumbai terror attacks have cast a shadow over the composite dialogue process. And in spite of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's tough message, the UPA government is expected to face criticism for its Pakistan policy and failure to push Islamabad on the issue of terrorism.

The joint anti-terror mechanism is yet to show any results and there has been no followup on any of the evidence that was shared with Pakistan on a series of serial blasts. In the last meeting of the joint anti terror mechanism, the two sides had discussed the bombing of the Indian embassy in Kabul where India suspects the role of the ISI. But Islamabad has continued to deny a Pakistan link and, sources said, the only concession so far is a promise to follow up on any evidence that India cares to share with Pakistan.

Anyway the composite dialogue process has been languishing for months till the home secretary level talks and foreign minister level talks took place this Tuesday and Wednesday. But this latest terror incident is sure to affect any attempts to revive the process.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in his address to the nation had said that India would take ``We will take up strongly with our neighbours that the use of their territory for launching attacks on us will not be tolerated, and that there would be a cost if suitable measures are not taken by them.,'' he said.

But Pakistan watchers say that the government has failed to highlight the role of Pakistan based terror groups at a time when the international spotlight has been on Pakistan.

``This government has failed miserably in highlighting the role of Pakistan based groups particularly the Lashkar ...The home secretary level talks and joint anti terror mechanism when it comes to terrorism is a farce,'' said G. Parthasarthy, former Indian envoy to Pakistan. 

Pakistan warns against jumping to quick conclusions- Politics/Nation-News-The Economic Times

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## Kumar

Munir said:


> How come they couldn't predict the attack. How come that so many people are killed and they still had a shock and within hours they knew who did it...
> 
> WOW, Decades late in military programs but faster then light in blaiming others.



Did you guys Predict Marriott Bombings? 

Update: A terrorist mobile Phone Found still getting calls from Neighboring country

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## Flintlock

Munir said:


> How come they couldn't predict the attack. How come that so many people are killed and they still had a shock and within hours they knew who did it...
> 
> WOW, Decades late in military programs but faster then light in blaiming others.



That's because it doesn't take a decade to interrogate a suspect, but only a couple of hours.


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## Awesome

Munir said:


> How come they couldn't predict the attack. How come that so many people are killed and they still had a shock and within hours they knew who did it...
> 
> WOW, Decades late in military programs but faster then light in blaiming others.


You saw all those fat pot bellies in shorts holding WWII rifles and sticks going into fighting the guys with automatic rifles.

Now how capable do you think they were at actual investigations? They are probably the type of people you see in Indian movies, who take bribes of 10 rps. They are incompetent. After each attack they are momentarily under pressure. They have to give answers. Just say its Pakistan and all Indians accept it like sheep.

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## Kasrkin

I think this whole thing was too unprofessionally done to be the work of proper spy agencies like the ISI. Besides the ISI thinks ahead quite a lot, about what&#8217;s best for our country&#8230;these attacks are pointless as far as Pakistani National Security is concerned. Furthermore over the decades blaming Pakistan for everything has turned into a convenient way for Indians to pretend that everything at home is perfect with no separatist tendencies and that everything is basically handy-dandy. And most people in India tend to buy that along with the press and media. Pakistan needs to be vocal in expressing our unacceptability of unsubstantiated insinuations against our national institutions, otherwise the damage will be done even if no credible proof materializes in the end (as usual).

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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> I don't expect Pakistani to believe that the terrorists are Pakistanis under any circumstances. The fact is that you will refuse to believe it and pull out an umpteen number of inane reasons why.
> 
> There is no point arguing.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, unless the information changes, they are from Pakistan.


There is no information!

We have confession from INDIAN terrorists. Sent to the media, non-governmental bodies.


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## Awesome

Kumar said:


> Did you guys Predict Marriott Bombings?
> 
> Update: A terrorist mobile Phone Found still getting calls from Neighboring country


Just wait, Zardari himself will call and offer to give you all a hug.


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## Neo

Munir said:


> How come they couldn't predict the attack. How come that so many people are killed and they still had a shock and within hours they knew who did it...
> 
> WOW, Decades late in military programs but faster then light in blaiming others.



Thats exactly my point! Its time we start looking into possibilities that it was another inside job.
Lets analyse who'd gain from this...?

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## shchinese

> "There is no question that the armed men who landed in south Mumbai in the Gemini boats came from a larger boat anchored off shore," said retired Rear Admiral Raja Menon, a strategic affairs expert. "The larger boat left without waiting for the men to return. The armed men were on a one-way ticket."



this new information raised an really interesting point: you have to treat those Muslims really bad to make them carry out all these attacks in such a determined manner. 

sure what they did is wrong and they should be jailed. The deeper problem is you can't stop such overall terrorism when the root of the problems are still there. what is the root of the problems? 

Muslims are treated badly in India. 

there are 10 Million Hui Muslims in China, everyone is happy (Al Jazeera interview in Oct/Sept.), no one carries out such "one way ticket attack" on Han Chinese targets. why? They are the first class citizens and we Han Chinese are the second class (which I am happy with).

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## Munir

Kumar said:


> Did you guys Predict Marriott Bombings?
> 
> Update: A terrorist mobile Phone Found still getting calls from Neighboring country



What is next? I am dialing that number...? You huys indeed have a fantasy...

Update: It is happening now and you do know nothing...


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## Awesome

Neo said:


> Thats exactly my point! Its time we start looking into possibilities that it was another inside job.
> Lets analyse who'd gain from this...?


See this is how I see it.

If in a week's time Indians start begging America to attack Pakistan or start mobilizing its own troops then I'm sure its an inside job, rather state sanctioned. Nothing like a massive national tragedy to give the nod to open war.

But if they do spend time to investigate it all, then we know they are not behind it and something really went bad for them. All this song and dance about harping that its about Pakistan is making me think that perhaps the Indian government is the terror culprit here!

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## Flintlock

*Army Western Command GOC interview to NDTV: *

-Punjabi Language used in intercepted communications from the Nariman House.

-Their internal communications were intercepted and they were receiving instructions to say that they are from Hyderabad in India.

-Every militant had a rucksack with grenades, 10+ magazines, AK-56 assault rifles.

-Every militant had dry-fruits in order to survive a long-drawn hostage situation.


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## Neo

Flintlock said:


> I don't expect Pakistani to believe that the terrorists are Pakistanis under any circumstances. The fact is that you will refuse to believe it and pull out an umpteen number of inane reasons why.
> 
> There is no point arguing.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, unless the information changes, they are from Pakistan.



Same can be said for your side, you're eager to point all fingers at us ignoring the fact that there's a genuine homegrown threat. Even CIA, the most professional and best trained intelligence agency needs time to examine the proof, study blueprints and draw likages and conclusion but in India....you just go and arrest a few Pakistani's, torture them till you have a confession and voila the case is solved!

How about letting independant investigators on board, share some evidence for a change.

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## Kasrkin

What the hell is a AK-56 ?????


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## Flintlock

Neo said:


> Same can be said for your side, you're eager to point all fingers at us ignoring the fact that there's a genuine homegrown threat. Even CIA, the most professional and best trained intelligence agency needs time to examine the proof, study blueprints and draw likages and conclusion but in India....you just go and arrest a few Pakistani's, torture them till you have a confession and voila the case is solved!
> 
> How about letting independant investigators on board, share some evidence for a change.



The case has not been solved, the GOC is simply repeating what the militants said. 

Rest is up to you. I don't care.


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## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> You think anyone is laughing out of glee? We are not Laughing about you, we're laughing AT you. We have seen this episode before. This is like some re-run. They are never able to catch a terrorist before. But within one day they pull out Abu Ismail out of their ***** and he is usually the mastermind, so he has credibility.
> 
> This is not us smiling, this us going WTF?



Well convince yourself, not me.

I know exactly the reasons for those smiles.

If these are LET, I would say our Air Force should blow up Muridke as a start if Pakistani government doesn't do so. That should reduce terror in other countries in the region too.


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## Imran Khan

from wich side this guy looking panjabi or pakistani?check his right hans riban same like any indian.he is 1000000000&#37; indian.

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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> The case has not been solved, the GOC is simply repeating what the militants said.
> 
> Rest is up to you. I don't care.


or possibly what an actor said.


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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> The case has not been solved, the GOC is simply repeating what the militants said.
> 
> Rest is up to you. I don't care.


or possibly what an actor said.


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## Awesome

imran khan said:


> from wich side this guy looking panjabi or pakistani?check his right hans riban same like any indian.he is 1000000000&#37; indian.


looks like a typical malbari/malayalee/tamil.

Take your pick.


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## Kasrkin

He looks NOTHING like a Pakistani, he looks like an Indian student who's been hanging out with the wrong crowd is all....


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## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> looks like a typical malbari/malayalee/tamil.
> 
> Take your pick.



Stop it. You have no clue regarding ethnic groups in India.


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## Imran Khan

Asim Aquil said:


> looks like a typical malbari/malayalee/tamil.
> 
> Take your pick.



but they say these guys calling nighbers east indians most of them don't know hindi urdu but pangabi what a joke by GOI


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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> Stop it. You have no clue regarding ethnic groups in India.


Yeah I've only lived with south Indians all my life... What do I know?


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## Kumar

imran khan said:


> from wich side this guy looking panjabi or pakistani?check his right hans riban same like any indian.he is 1000000000% indian.



If there is a riban means 10000000000% indian ?

Lets c what ABU ISMAIL from Faridkot Pakistan is going to say.


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## Imran Khan

Flintlock said:


> Stop it. You have no clue regarding ethnic groups in India.



and were is clue of ISI and PAKISTAN ?


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## Neo

A LeT terrorist without beard and a Versace T-shirt.
Sure you have no clues about LeT.

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## HK-47

It would be very clever for any captured terrorist to say he is from Pakistan to save his group don't you think?or plant false leads?maybe some people think they will gain something from Pak-Indo conflicts who knows.

from what I am seeing the security services of India really suck and the intelligence agencies too.Doesn't India have a CBI?perhaps you people need Feluda brought out of retirement.


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## shchinese

Kumar said:


> If there is a riban means 10000000000% indian ?
> 
> Lets c what ABU ISMAIL from Faridkot Pakistan is going to say.



you have already told us what he said, he said Muslims got treated badly and thus he had to pick up weapons.


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## Imran Khan

Kumar said:


> If there is a riban means 10000000000&#37; indian ?
> 
> Lets c what ABU ISMAIL from Faridkot Pakistan is going to say.



ok with respect my dear sir can i ask wich side this guy looking pakistani?


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## Kumar

shchinese said:


> you have already told us what he said, he said Muslims got treated badly and thus he had to pick up weapons.



Thats just the beginning lot more to come.


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## Imran Khan

Kumar said:


> If there is a riban means 10000000000% indian ?
> 
> Lets c what ABU ISMAIL from Faridkot Pakistan is going to say.



ok with resoect my dear sir can i ask wich side this guy looking pakistani?

a blind can say he in an indian


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## Kumar

imran khan said:


> ok with resoect my dear sir can i ask wich side this guy looking pakistani?



I never said he is ABU SALIM.


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## Vinod2070

To me he could be anyone of these people:







This looks logic is useless. Come up with a better one!

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## Neo

IBN is talking about a marine wing of Let being involved! 
Whats next...Starship Enterprise as space wing?


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## Imran Khan

Kumar said:


> I never said he is ABU SALIM.



sir abu salim is ghost but this one of them we can see what abut only this . who is this guy. ??????


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## Goodperson

Neo said:


> A LeT terrorist without beard and a Versace T-shirt.
> Sure you have no clues about LeT.



BB's killer was without Beard too.


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## Imran Khan

Vinod2070 said:


> To me he could be anyone of these people:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !




 who say pakistan railway is going to lose there is trains full of passangers


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## Awesome

Kumar said:


> If there is a riban means 10000000000% indian ?
> 
> Lets c what ABU ISMAIL from Faridkot Pakistan is going to say.


Ribbon signifies, Raakhi!


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## Vinod2070

imran khan said:


> ok with resoect my dear sir can i ask wich side this guy looking pakistani?
> 
> a blind can say he in an indian



Imran bhai, look at the train picture.

Are they all Indians? There is no difference in the way 80% of Pakistanis look compared to Indians. The tribal people may look a bit different, and not all of them too.


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## Imran Khan

may be he is one of them ?


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## Awesome

Vinod2070 said:


> Imran bhai, look at the train picture.
> 
> Are they all Indians? There is no difference in the way 80% of Pakistanis look compared to Indians. The tribal people may look a bit different, and not all of them too.


Are you serious? Punjabi speaking Pakistanis don't look like Indians... Migrated folks look like Indian but you will find very few South Indians migrated to Pak.

DECCAN is a plateau covering most of the south region right?

Deccan Mujahideen... Hello?

For all we know the Tamils did it. They were pissed off with India's lack of support on the beating the Tamils received from the Sinhalese in SL.


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## Goodperson

Asim Aquil said:


> Ribbon signifies, Raakhi!



Rakhi is tied by sister to her brother the festival was in month of August.


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## Kumar

imran khan said:


> sir abu salim is ghost but this one of them we can see what abut only this . who is this guy. ??????



Sir, just only with the picture and ribbons i cant say whether he is india or pakistan . Both look same. 

Once if he is captured alive or at least his body then we will get to know his identity.


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## Neo

*Indian troops raid hotels to free hostages​*
Associated Press Writer Anita Chang, Associated Press Writer  4 mins ago

MUMBAI, India  Black-clad Indian commandoes raided two luxury hotels to try to free hostages Thursday, and explosions and gunshots shook India's financial capital a day after attacks by suspected Muslim militants killed at least 110 people.

About 10 to 12 gunmen remain holed up inside the hotels and a Jewish center, a top Indian general said. The remaining gunmen appeared to have been killed or captured, Maj. Gen. R.K. Huda told New Delhi Television.

Authorities said 110 people died and 300 were injured when suspected Islamic militants  armed with assault rifles, hand grenades and explosives  launched a highly coordinated attack against 10 sites in the city Wednesday night.

Officials said eight militants were also killed.

Dozens of people were being held hostage at the hotels, as well as a nearby Jewish center, by the well-trained and heavily armed gunmen, authorities said.

While hostages trickled out of the hotels throughout the day, witnesses said many bodies remained inside and the two-day siege showed few signs of ending quickly. Several bodies were carried out of the five-star Taj Mahal Palace and Tower hotel.

The attackers had specifically targeted Britons and Americans inside the hotels, witnesses said.

Dozens of people were also apparently still hiding in their hotel rooms, terrified by occasional bursts of gunfire and explosions, as well as fires burning in parts of both hotels, and waiting for authorities to get them to safety.

After dusk Thursday, police brought hostages out of the Oberoi, one of the city's best-known five-star hotels.

One man, a who identified himself as a Pole but did not give his name, told reporters he had seen many bodies inside, but refused to give more details, saying he had promised police not to discuss details of the rescue operation.

The Maharashtra state home ministry said 84 people had been freed from the Oberoi  60 of them hostages  and dozens more were still trapped inside.

Police said they were going slowly to protect the captives.

A previously unknown Islamic militant group claimed responsibility for the carnage, the latest in a series of terror attacks over the past three years that have dented India's image as an industrious nation galloping toward prosperity.

Among the dead were at least one Australian, a Japanese and a British national, said Pradeep Indulkar, a senior government official of Maharashtra state. An Italian and a German were also killed, according to their foreign ministries.


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## Neo

*Pakistan FM asks India not to point finger for Mumbai attacks​*
1 hr 1 min ago

ISLAMABAD (AFP)  Pakistan's foreign minister on Thursday asked India to wait for proof from an investigation before blaming anyone for involvement in the Mumbai terror attacks that have killed over 100 people.

The statement was a response to a televised speech by Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in which he said that those behind coordinated attacks against Mumbai were based "outside the country" and warned "neighbours" who provide a haven to anti-India militants.

Pakistan's foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi, in New Delhi for peace talks, told the private Dawn television station that nobody should be blamed until investigations were complete.

"Our experience in the past tells us that we should not jump to conclusions," Qureshi said.

Qureshi said that Singh had constituted a federal investigation team to look into the attacks on luxury hotels, restaurants and the main train station in India's commercial heart, which have killed at least 100 people and injured about 300.

"We should not go for a knee-jerk reaction," Qureshi said, adding he would meet Singh on Friday and express condolences, solidarity and support to him and the people of India.

"We need to be calm, we need to be composed and we need to be supportive of each other."

Qureshi said Pakistan and India needed to fight terrorism together, saying "this is a global menace... we have to join hands to deal with this menace collectively."

India has in the past frequently accused arch-rival Pakistan of backing Islamic militants active in India, although the prime minister did not identify any country by name during his speech.

Militant Pakistani group Lashkar-i-Tayyiba, which is fighting Indian rule in Kashmir, on Thursday denied any involvement in the Mumbai attacks.


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## Imran Khan

who many times they storm and raid on hotels every 1 hour they say hotel is now free then again raid ?


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## Kasrkin

Vinod2070 said:


> Imran bhai, look at the train picture.
> 
> Are they all Indians? *There is no difference in the way 80% of Pakistanis look compared to Indians. *The tribal people may look a bit different, and not all of them too.



Thats just not true, Pakistanis are very different...it is just the Muhajir population that makes it harder to tell (but that too not all of them) because of their Indian origins. Punjabis tend to have brownish skin, all the Pathans and Gilgit people you already know with pale skin and colored eyes. Besides its not just the skin color, his frame and height makes it easy to guess too. Besides Pakistan Armed services mostly recruits NCOs from Punjab and NWFP tribes because of the martial traditions there (who tend to be taller and broader). Officers tend to vary a little more in ethnicity, but I dont think that ISI will send its officers on such missions in enemy territory (even if I did think that the ISI was lowly enough to waste time with this pointless violence) besides this kid looks no more than 20

Im not sayings its a completely fool proof way of reference, but its reasonable under the circumstances. Besides those train people, if you had a closer picture you could tell that their skins and height are not exactly the Tamil type (like it seems with this dude), they tend to be notability more reflective and brownish and slender. Trust me I know.


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## Neo

imran khan said:


> who many times they storm and raid on hotels every 1 hour they say hotel is now free then again raid ?



Looks like Bollywood is incharge?


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## Nihat

Neo said:


> Looks like Bollywood is incharge?



You should be ashamed that you said this !!


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## nitesh

Rediff iShare: Terrorist calling himself Sahadullah speaks to India tv

Rediff iShare: 2nd Terrorist speaks from Nariman house


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## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> See this is how I see it.
> 
> If in a week's time Indians start begging America to attack Pakistan or start mobilizing its own troops then I'm sure its an inside job, rather state sanctioned. Nothing like a massive national tragedy to give the nod to open war.
> 
> But if they do spend time to investigate it all, then we know they are not behind it and something really went bad for them. All this song and dance about harping that its about Pakistan is making me think that perhaps the Indian government is the terror culprit here!



The problem with the conspiracy theorists is that they are such "chikney ghadey"! They move from one conspiracy theory to other smoothly and if 99.99% of their theories fail, they can still go on inventing new ones.

India can take actions on its own if required. USA will join if it really feels there is a common threat that effects them too.

There is a reason for all that pressure about ISI and the chants of "Do More"!


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## XYON

TYPICALLY INDIAN - The Indian General claims he is quite sure that the said perpetrators were from Pakistan. I am sure he will soon also find NADRA ID CARDS and PASSPORTS issued by our Ministry of Interior on these disgruntled locals! 

I think that the Indian Navy finds thousands of abandoned Inflatables and fisher boats going in an out of Mumbai everyday! I am also sure that they 'allowed' these terrorists to come in Mumbai, kill a few hundred innocents just to blame Pakistan for it?

Fool some of the people some of the time, not all of the time! Time is to grieve on the death of the innocents and not have a holier-than-thou attitude by pointing fingers to Pakistan.


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## Goodperson

Neo said:


> Looks like Bollywood is incharge?



There was a confusion with police.


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## Neo

Nihat said:


> You should be ashamed that you said this !!



Should I? 

How many times did your media report that Taj and Obroi have been cleared??? Gime me some professional coverage, not a Bollywood take and retake!


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## Munir

Flintlock said:


> Stop it. You have no clue regarding ethnic groups in India.



You suck bigtime. If you call it Pakistani action then we are to dumb to call it not Pakistani? Please... You Indians amaza me every post.


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## Nihat

Neo said:


> Should I?
> 
> How many times did your media report that Taj and Obroi have been cleared??? Gime me some professional coverage, not a Bollywood take and retake!



It's a terror attack sir , hasty coverage is a part of it and while people are being slaughtered you grandly compare it to bollywood.

Imagine the hurt if someone compared marriot blast to a hollywood action sequence.


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## Neo

nitesh said:


> Rediff iShare: Terrorist calling himself Sahadullah speaks to India tv
> 
> Rediff iShare: 2nd Terrorist speaks from Nariman house



Comon guys, wtf is this???
Why is Bombay police letting terrorists talk with the media?
He doesn't have a punjabi accent and even his Urdu sucks!


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## Flintlock

- 2 to 3 terrorists still holed up in Nariman House

The Martyrs:

Hemant Karkare, head of ATS:






Famous "Encounter Specialist" Vijay Salaskar





Additional Commissioner Ashok Kamte

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## Patriot

Nihat said:


> You should be ashamed that you said this !!


Looks like Bollywood is incharge?


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## Kasrkin

> Imagine the hurt if someone compared marriot blast to a hollywood action sequence.


I wouldn't mind, I would like a movie on it too...about brave Pakistanis fighting terrorists (though admittedly I rather it Hollywood rather than Bollywood).


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## Imran Khan

nitesh said:


> Rediff iShare: Terrorist calling himself Sahadullah speaks to India tv
> 
> Rediff iShare: 2nd Terrorist speaks from Nariman house



you guys beleve these devils terarrsts even they kill 100 people but never beleve us wich are your friends on forum ?


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## Munir

Goodperson said:


> There was a confusion with police.



You are allowed to have excuses while blaiming others? 

Well, The most strange part is when something happened your chief got killed... How professional! The the info is as trliable...


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## Vinod2070

Kasrkin said:


> That&#8217;s just not true, Pakistanis are very different...it is just the Muhajir population that makes it harder to tell (but that too not all of them) because of their Indian origins. Punjabis tend to have brownish skin, all the Pathans and Gilgit people you already know with pale skin and colored eyes. Besides it&#8217;s not just the skin color, his frame and height makes it easy to guess too. Besides Pakistan Armed services mostly recruits NCOs from Punjab and NWFP tribes because of the martial traditions there (who tend to be taller and broader). Officers tend to vary a little more in ethnicity, but I don&#8217;t think that ISI will send its officers on such missions in enemy territory (even if I did think that the ISI was lowly enough to waste time with this pointless violence) besides this kid looks no more than 20
> 
> I&#8217;m not sayings it&#8217;s a completely fool proof way of reference, but its reasonable under the circumstances. Besides those train people, if you had a closer picture you could tell that their skins and height are not exactly the Tamil type (like it seems with this dude), they tend to be notability more reflective and brownish and slender. Trust me I know.



Well, its not that I don't know how Pakistanis look.

From Zardari to Miandad to Musharraf to all your current Pakistani players there is not one who can't pass for an Indian. Not a single one!

There is no difference in the way people look in the two Punjabs. Sindhis look no different to people just across the border.

West of Sindhu, the tribals could be a bit different or a lot different but they are a relatively minor part of Pakistani population and there are many people in India (even in deep South) who may look like an Afridi.

Well getting looks into this is a foolish idea. Drop it now, it is failing miserably!


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## Neo

Nihat said:


> It's a terror attack sir , hasty coverage is a part of it and while people are being slaughtered you grandly compare it to bollywood.
> 
> Imagine the hurt if someone compared marriot blast to a hollywood action sequence.



Well this hastly reporting and investigation is pointing fingers at my country without propper evidence aswell.
Quite amaturistic and improfessional work if you ask me, reminds me of a bad Bollywood scenario.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

sunny_aus said:


> WASHINGTON, Nov 14: _*CIA director Michael Hayden has warned that every major terrorist threat confronting the world has ties to Pakistan.*_
> In a speech to the Atlantic Council on Thursday, Mr Hayden also claimed that Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was hiding in Fata.
> 
> Every major terror threat involves Pakistan: CIA -DAWN - Top Stories; November 15, 2008



Ok out of my hiatus for a bit.

This coment has aready been discussed in another thread, and needless to say, if taken as is, it is completely inaccurate. Looked at in the context of the situation in Afghanistan, which is what Hayden's briefing related to, it is somewhat accurate.

At no point does his comment indicate that there is institutional support behind 'every major terrorist threat', so to try and link every act of terrorism around the world to his comment, and even worse, to try and link Pakistani institutions to those acts, is absurd.

Until clear, 'beyond a reasonable dount' evidence can be provided to implicate Pakistani institutions in this, anything implying so will be considered a flame. Is there a possibility that Pakistani based groups were invovled? Certainly, but the distinction between Pakistan based groups and Pakistani instituions needs to be made when speculating along those lines.

Remember that Pakistan herself is suffering from terrorism, and as the Bajaur operation has revealed, through the presence of fortified tunnel systems, buildings, ambush nests and carefully laid out defensive and ambush tactics, sat phones, sophisticated radio sets (actual plans have been found with locations, ammo dumps etc.), talking about 'sophistication of attack' does not imply much.

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## Flintlock

-Taj Hotel Encounter over- all terrorists have been caught/eliminated. 

-Nariman House encounter also over. 

-110 dead, 217 injured, 6 foreigners dead, 14 foreigners injured.

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## Imran Khan

Neo said:


> Looks like Bollywood is incharge?



more then that sir its looks like zee tv drama .they shuld clear city first then play with media.they can't control until now then now 24 hors finished


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## Imran Khan

Flintlock said:


> -Taj Hotel Encounter over- all terrorists have been caught/eliminated.
> 
> -Nariman House encounter also over.
> 
> -110 dead, 217 injured, 6 foreigners dead, 14 foreigners injured.



can we trust now agian never lanch a storm on hotel ?


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## pkpatriotic

*My deepl hearted condolences on behalf of forum and my country, to the grieved family, friends and the whole of Indian nation, may God give enough courage to bear such a heavy losses.

May God keep the Pakistani and Indian nation, and whole humanity of this global village, save & secure!*

BTW what's a problem to dash upon terrorists, for what and why indian forces waiting yet..............they should take bold attempt to fu*k those basta*ds terrorists and make them examples so that next time they should think a lot of times before any terrorism...........In my opinion that even Pakistani or Indian can overcome such issues just only by bold steps ...otherwise they take lives of innocents, jeaperdize economies and creat misunderstandings among countries....... and even though this type of craps can be casues to built doubts among a nation...............then why forces wait for????? dont they have courage, amunition or any lack in professional skills / confidance????? while the governaments spent a lot for defence. Go ahead Kill these ras**les. 

*Schoolchildren hold candles as they pay tributes to the victims of terrorist attacks in Mumbai at a school in Ahmadabad, India, Thursday, Nov. 27, 2008. A trickle of bodies and hostages emerged from a luxury hotel Thursday as Indian commandoes tried to free people trapped by suspected Muslim militants who attacked at least 10 targets in India's financial capital of Mumbai, killing people. *





*Map locates terrorist attacks in Mumbai, India;.*

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## Kasrkin

Zardari and Musharraf both represent relatively smaller portions of Pakistan's population and especially our military composition. And there is a difference between most Indians and Zardariseeing a few leaders on TV is not exactly the most comprehensive way to gain understanding of Pakistani physical attributes. 

Point is 80% of Pakistanis DO NOT look like Indians; nowhere near that figure. And this guy doesnt look like any Pakistani at ALL. There are obviously some similarities ofcourse, but logic would dictate that this guy is from southern India rather than some Pakistani tribal area or Punjabi army caste.


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## Vinod2070

imran khan said:


> can we trust now agian never lanch a storm on hotel ?



That is not the issue here. The issue is to get those cowards, whatever it takes.

Salute to all the brave hearts who are putting their lives at risk in the service of the country.

Get them brothers and at least some of them alive. They will sing like a canary and India should take it to its logical conclusion, whatever it takes.


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## Munir

Vinod2070 said:


> That is not the issue here. The issue is to get those cowards, whatever it takes.
> 
> Salute to all the brave hearts who are putting their lives at risk in the service of the country.
> 
> Get them brothers and at least some of them alive. They will sing like a canary and India should take it to its logical conclusion, whatever it takes.



Your cowards are not really cowards... I think you are not even able to think what they did... Vinod, you are filled with unlogical conclusions or statements. Just look what happened, let it done by someone that is independent and then open your mouth.


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## TOPGUN

I just heard the news on Indain channel's from dish Calls made from and to Karachi reagarding new attacks in Mumbai ! Indians call it there 9/11 !! these damn terrorist are playing a game which will hurt Pakistan 's image in the world yet more important peace with India !! iam deeply sad about all this i hope this blood shed stops !! i hope we kill these damn terrorist .

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## Vinod2070

Kasrkin said:


> *Zardari and Musharraf both represent relatively smaller portions of Pakistan's population and especially our military composition. *And there is a difference between most Indians and Zardariseeing a few leaders on TV is not exactly the most comprehensive way to gain understanding of Pakistani physical attributes.
> 
> Point is 80% of Pakistanis DO NOT look like Indians; nowhere near that figure. And this guy doesnt look like any Pakistani at ALL. There are obviously some similarities ofcourse, but logic would dictate that this guy is from southern India rather than some Pakistani tribal area or Punjabi army caste.



Zardari is a Sindhi. Does he look different from the normal Sindhis? Sindh is the second most populated province AFAIK.

Did anyone say they have to be military? It could be LTTE.

See I have zero interest in claiming any commonality. Just don't give a damn to that. Facts are facts. There is no one in the world who can tell a Pakistani apart from an Indian especially the non-tribal vast majority of Pakistan. You are wrong here, just drop this.


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## Neo

*India Attacks Indicate Al-Qaeda Link, Experts Say​*By Gregory Viscusi

Nov. 27 (Bloomberg) -- The terrorist attacks that killed at least 101 people in Mumbai late yesterday displayed a level of coordination and choice of targets that indicate international involvement, security experts say.

The attacks were certainly carried out by groups linked to al-Qaeda, Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini told Sky TG24 television today.

*While experts werent so categorical, they said the signs pointed, at a minimum, to groups inspired by al-Qaeda and bombings in London and Madrid that followed the 2001 attacks on the U.S.*

Teams of militants armed with grenades and rifles stormed the Taj Mahal Palace and Tower Hotel and the Oberoi Trident complex at about 10 p.m. yesterday, saying they were targeting Americans and Britons. They also attacked police stations, a Jewish community center, and a train station. Indian commandos later freed some of the hostages being held by the militants.

*Highly symbolic but soft targets such as fancy hotels and the train station, and the use of synchronized coordinated teams, does show some of the same modus operandi as al-Qaeda- linked attacks in London and Madrid, said Andrea Plebani, a researcher at Centro Volta, a research institute based in Como, Italy. But its obviously too early to draw any conclusions.*

The attacks were claimed by the Deccan Mujahedeen, a previously little-known group, the Press Trust of India said. Such assertions are meaningless, because groups make up one-time names for attacks or make bogus claims, said Anne Stenersen, a researcher at the Norwegian Defense Research Establishment.

*No Suicide Bombers*

*The absence of suicide bombers prompted disagreement among analysts.*

*This was not some improvised attack, it certainly required lots of planning and organization, said Stenersen, who is based near Oslo. But al-Qaeda almost always uses suicide bombers, because martyrdom plays such a key role in their propaganda.*

The lack of suicide bombers doesnt rule out al-Qaedas involvement, says Alexander Neill, head of the Asia program at the Royal United Services Institute, a London-based research institute focused on defense and security. The people carrying out these attacks are certainly prepared to die, he says.

*The scale of these attacks does indicate some level of outside planning and funding, even if it was most likely carried out by members of Indias growing radicalized Muslim minority, Neill says. That would argue for maybe not a direct logistical al-Qaeda role, but some link.*

*Wave of Attacks*

A wave of bombings in markets, theaters and near mosques has killed more than 300 people this year in India. Most were linked to religious clashes between Hindus and Muslims, or to groups wanting independence for Kashmir, an Indian province with a Muslim majority.

The attacks on prestigious targets such as luxury hotels and the taking of Western hostages indicated a new terror tactic in India with echoes of previous bombings, said Plebani.

A series of coordinated suicide attacks killed 191 people on Madrid commuter trains on March 11, 2004 and 52 people on Londons underground metro and a bus on July 7, 2005. While each set of bombers was inspired by al-Qaeda rhetoric, no direct links were ever proved.

*Part of the problem is that few agree on what al-Qaeda is.*

*Franchise?*

*Is al-Qaeda a real organization with a command and control structure, says Richard Cornwell, senior research fellow at the Institute for Security Studies in Pretoria. Or just a brand name and idea that you use, like a franchise? I think its more likely the latter.*

Since 2001, when a U.S.-led coalition chased al-Qaedas leadership out of Afghanistan after the Sept. 11 attacks on New York and Washington, al-Qaeda has provided leadership and its message from hideouts along the Afghan-Pakistan border, while the groups it inspires are increasingly autonomous, he said.

*Regardless of who is behind the attacks, India will blame Pakistan, says Stratfor, a private risk-analysis company based in Austin, Texas.*

*If Indian authorities say it was a domestic group, they will be held accountable for a failure of enormous proportions in security and law enforcement, Stratfor said in a note to clients today. On the other hand, it can link the attack to an outside power: Pakistan. Politically this is a much preferable outcome for the Indian government, and so it is the most likely course of action.*

*Pakistans Condemnation*

Pakistans President Asif Ali Zardari and Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi today condemned the terrorist attacks in Mumbai.

Between January 2004 and March 2007 the death toll from terrorist attacks in India was 3,674, second only to Iraq during the same period, according to the National Counterterrorism Center in Washington.

The Indian government has previously blamed terrorist attacks on organizations linked to foreign powers. Local media often blame the attacks on groups backed by Pakistan or Bangladesh, without identifying the security officials who provided the information.

Indias capital, New Delhi, was rocked by five blasts during an evening rush hour in September, killing as many as 26 people and injuring about 133. Indian Mujahadeen, which claimed responsibility for similar attacks in Ahmedabad and Jaipur, said it was behind the blasts.

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## shchinese

Neo said:


> *Regardless of who is behind the attacks, India will blame Pakistan, says Stratfor, a private risk-analysis company based in Austin, Texas.*
> 
> *If Indian authorities say it was a domestic group, they will be held accountable for a failure of enormous proportions in security and law enforcement, Stratfor said in a note to clients today. On the other hand, it can link the attack to an outside power: Pakistan. Politically this is a much preferable outcome for the Indian government, and so it is the most likely course of action.*



see, the current regime of India is just the threat to the regional peace.


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## Chanakya.10

I think it's a Hindu/Jewish/Neo-con conspiracy, to blame peace loving people of some other community.......


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## Awesome

Vinod2070 said:


> Zardari is a Sindhi. Does he look different from the normal Sindhis? Sindh is the second most populated province AFAIK.
> 
> Did anyone say they have to be military? It could be LTTE.
> 
> See I have zero interest in claiming any commonality. Just don't give a damn to that. Facts are facts. There is no one in the world who can tell a Pakistani apart from an Indian especially the non-tribal vast majority of Pakistan. You are wrong here, just drop this.


Looking like an INDIAN and looking like a SOUTH INDIAN are two different things!

Sindhis don't look like Deccans!

PUNJABIS especially don't look like them.

Migrated folks, mostly from Delhi, UP n all might find some resemblence in Pak but again, not with SOUTH INDIANS.

Makes me wonder if you guys have even ever seen a Pakistani up close.

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## Chanakya.10

shchinese said:


> see, the current regime of India is just the threat to the regional peace.



Ya we are a threat to everybody around.....

Our people are being killed, and we are the threat.....Isnt it schinese according to you great conclusive logical powers?


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## Halaku Khan

Asim Aquil said:


> Indians have sung this tune so many times. Its always the same old, same old.



Because, unfortunately, all too often it IS same old, same old.

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## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> Looking like an INDIAN and looking like a SOUTH INDIAN are two different things!
> 
> Sindhis don't look like Deccans!
> 
> PUNJABIS especially don't look like them.
> 
> Migrated folks, mostly from Delhi, UP n all might find some resemblence in Pak but again, not with SOUTH INDIANS.
> 
> Makes me wonder if you guys have even ever seen a Pakistani up close.



I posted that train picture. Are they not Pakistanis?

That guy doesn't look like a South Indian. I know, I am living among them now.

The complexion is dark, there are millions of people in Pakistan with similar complexion. If this is the best you guys can come up with, it is unfortunate.

I have seen enough Pakistanis. From all provinces except Balochistan, so I know what I am talking about. I have visited Dubai too and met so many of you.


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## Halaku Khan

saadahmed said:


> Indians won't learn and grow up, its in their nature. Deep inside they still are not over with 1947 partition and they certainly have not forgotten how China kicked India's butt during war. ..... I wonder when the international community is gonna grow tired of them crying "Pakistan" everytime Manmohan Singh pisses his pants!



Is this typical Pakistani-speak?


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## Flintlock

*More from GOC Western Command:*

-The Taj has been combed once, and a second combing process has begun to ensure that there are no weapons/explosives, occupants or militants.

-Floodlights have been installed to illuminate the buildings at night, and ensure that nobody can escape.

-There are still some terrorists in Nariman House, though all hostages have been evacuated. 

-A possible militant is being tracked by locating his cellphone.


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## Chanakya.10

Asim Aquil said:


> Looking like an INDIAN and looking like a SOUTH INDIAN are two different things!
> 
> Sindhis don't look like Deccans!
> 
> PUNJABIS especially don't look like them.
> 
> Migrated folks, mostly from Delhi, UP n all might find some resemblence in Pak but again, not with SOUTH INDIANS.
> 
> Makes me wonder if you guys have even ever seen a Pakistani up close.





I on behalf of many Indians want to say that I dont think pakistan has any hand in this......
We know how much u love us. Thanks Zardari for his call, and him asking for any help. WE'LL surely call back when time comes......

, Damm there is no INDIAN flag to show...........
I thoght u love us


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## Patriot

Halaku Khan said:


> Is this typical Pakistani-speak?



Yes, this is a typical Pakistani response to typical Indians who believe ISI is behind everything.

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## Kasrkin

> See I have zero interest in claiming any commonality. Just don't give a damn to that. Facts are facts. There is no one in the world who can tell a Pakistani apart from an Indian especially the non-tribal vast majority of Pakistan. You are wrong here, just drop this.



That is JUST not true. There is substantial difference between the average Pakistani and Indian physical outlook. And more importantly there is absolute NO similarity been southern Indian (i.e. Tamil) populations and Pakistanis. I've already pointed out the various factors, this guy is no Pakistani and his bearings (height, frame, skin color, age) all easily indicate Indian and opposed to Pakistani origins.


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## Vinod2070

Halaku Khan said:


> Is this typical Pakistani-speak?



You should learn to ignore such people, friend.

There are many of them and it doesn't matter. Not all posts need to be replied. Let the mods do their job. Report a post if it is offensive.


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## Chanakya.10

> Originally Posted by saadahmed
> Indians won't learn and grow up, its in their nature. Deep inside they still are not over with 1947 partition and they certainly have not forgotten how China kicked India's butt during war. ..... I wonder when the international community is gonna grow tired of them crying "Pakistan" everytime Manmohan Singh pisses his pants!



This type of mentality will make sure where the blame arrows are shot....


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## Halaku Khan

Asim Aquil said:


> Why should we believe he's from Pakistan?
> 
> Unless the government of Pakistan tells me otherwise...
> 
> You need to hand over the evidence to Pak investigators and let them come to a conclusion.



First India should see if Zardari is willing to work with India against Pakistani Jihadis (both within and outside the Pakistani forces). If he is, then India can deal with him.

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## Chanakya.10

saadahmed said:


> Yes, this is a typical Pakistani response to typical Indians who believe ISI is *behind everything.*



Plz clarify, there are whole lot of things.....


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## dabong1

Sky news is saying that two pakistani merchant ships have been hijacked by the indian navy.


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## Neo

*Mumbai attacks have al-Qaida echoes, but tactics differ​*
While the terrorists seem to be Islamist militants they are not simply the usual suicide attackers

Richard Norton-Taylor guardian.co.uk
Thursday November 27 2008

It must be linked to al-Qaida. That was an immediate, simplistic - and probably misleading - response to the attacks on big hotels, seen as western targets, in Mumbai.

Certainly, the terrorists appeared to be Muslim extremists. Although they must have assumed they were going to be killed even though they took hostages, the attackers were not suicide bombers, overt martyrs of the kind we have witnessed elsewhere - in London, Iraq, and now in Afghanistan - since the 9/11 attacks on the US.

*A group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen, which some analysts describe as an al-Qaida affiliate, claimed responsibility for these latest attacks. The group appears to have named itself after a plateau in central south India.

Unlike al-Qaida-inspired extremists, they have made more traditional and more straightforward demands, namely the release of "Muhajideens" held in Indian jails. However, one similarity with al-Qaida tactics is that there was a number of simultaneous attacks.*

*Two groups, the Indian Mujahideen and Lashkar-i-Taiba (Army of the Pure) have claimed responsibility for attacks in India over the last 12 months, But most of these have been aimed at such vulnerable targets as commuter trains and market places.* *Those responsible for the latest atacks have different tactics. They had "western" targets in their sights, and they went in fighting - not simply planting bombs and the leaving the area.*

*One expert was reported today as comparing the attacks to the bombing of the Marriott Hotel in Pakistan's capital, Islamabad, on September 20.*

*Professor Richard Bonney, the author of Jihad: From Qu'ran To Bin Laden, said the difference was that in Mumbai there were coordinated attacks and westerners were singled out as hostages. He said: "This attack looks more dangerous and better planned, though not directed against possible government targets but economic ones and of course the 'western allies'."*

*The Indian Mujahideen, described as "home grown miltants", has previously declared "open war" against what it says is 60 years of Muslim persecution in India.* Lashkar-i-Taiba has claimed responsibility for attacks protecting at what it calls the Indian occupation of Kashmir.

*Dominic Armstrong of Aegis Defence Services, a London-based security firm, said: "Recent attacks by Hindu extremists (some of whom have reportedly been arrested) have been unsubtle and largely against mosques. These attacks look very much to be the work of Islamists, and not Muslims of the more traditional Indian sectarian type, but of a more sinister international flavour, with distinct hallmarks of al-Qaida, although probably at subsidiary/affiliate level".*

One issue will be how Pakistan responds, not least to Indian populist accusations that Pakistan is behind all attacks in India, and how much sympathy the new government in Islamabad extends to Delhi.


----------



## Chanakya.10

Kasrkin said:


> That is JUST not true. There is substantial difference between the average Pakistani and Indian physical outlook. And more importantly there is absolute NO similarity been southern Indian (i.e. Tamil) populations and Pakistanis. I've already pointed out the various factors, this guy is no Pakistani and his bearings _(*height*, *frame*, skin color, *age*) all easily indicate Indian and opposed to Pakistani origins._



are't people of his age are in pakistan???? No height of that order either????

Are young men from 160 mn population of same height and frame?????


----------



## Kumar

US Congressman wants Islamist terror wiped out


US Congressman wants Islamist terror wiped out

United States Congressman Ed Royce, a ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee's Subcommittee on Terrorism [Images], Non-proliferation and Trade, in condemning the terrorist attacks in Mumbai, said, "It is often said that India and America have a natural bond as the two largest democracies." 

"Today," he said, "we share a bond of a common enemy: what the 9/11 Commission identified as Islamist terrorism."

Royce, a California Republican, whose has a large Indian-American constituency, including many who originally hail from Mumbai, warned that "Islamist ideology is spreading across South Asia, and must be stamped out."

The lawmaker said, "I am confident in the aftermath of these attacks, we will see the resilience that is embodied in the Indian people."

Royce acknowledged that the coordinated terrorist attacks -- the latest in a six-month bombing campaign that has swept across India -- was also an "attack on the economic boom India has enjoyed, reaching growth rates of 9 percent over the past three years."


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## smeaglegolum

There is an analysis going on TV which say pakistan army/ISI could be behind this since Zardari made peace overtures towards India. They say it looks much similar like Kargil episode. The final aim is to stop peace dialogue b/w India and Pakistan.


----------



## Vinod2070

Kasrkin said:


> That is JUST not true. There is substantial difference between the average Pakistani and Indian physical outlook. And more importantly there is absolute NO similarity been southern Indian (i.e. Tamil) populations and Pakistanis. I've already pointed out the various factors, this guy is no Pakistani and his bearings (height, frame, skin color, age) all easily indicate Indian and opposed to Pakistani origins.



Well, whatever makes you happy.

I have seen and met hundreds of Pakistanis. I have seen all Pakistani cricketers on TV since at least 10-15 years or more, so many public figures, so many politicians, met many of them when they visited India for the cricket series in Mohali, met them in Dubai and in the West.

May be I did miss something!

But then I do want that people don't mistake Indians for Pakistanis all over the world. We are two different people now with different destinies. We chose a different path when we went our separate ways.


----------



## Flintlock

Asst. Commissioner Ashok Kamte: (RIP)

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dabong1

This is getting more and more bizzare............now the indians are saying that terrorists sailed from karachi all the way to mumbai.
No disrespect to people killed but if it was that simple to invade mumbai ,why did the pakistani navy try it out?

Is there no coast guard....radar.....navy...protecting the coastline of india


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## Goodperson

Munir said:


> You are allowed to have excuses while blaiming others?
> 
> Well, The most strange part is when something happened your chief got killed... How professional! The the info is as trliable...



I saw this confusion thing in CNN video even they might have mislead to onlookers too. Confusion seemed because certain floors of Taj were sanitized not the whole Taj.


----------



## Kasrkin

> are't people of his age are in pakistan???? No height of that order either????
> 
> Are young men from 160 mn population of same height and frame?????



That&#8217;s not what I said, the evidence does not confirm or conclude but it indicates and points at one probability over another. People of his age are in Pakistan of course, but Pakistani people of his age (near teenagers) don't end up in India with rifle wielding military objectives. Frame and height indicate fairly accurately one ethnic inclination over another. It's there for people who want to believe with their eyes as opposed to their emotions.


----------



## Awesome

Vinod2070 said:


> I posted that train picture. Are they not Pakistanis?
> 
> That guy doesn't look like a South Indian. I know, I am living among them now.
> 
> The complexion is dark, there are millions of people in Pakistan with similar complexion. If this is the best you guys can come up with, it is unfortunate.
> 
> I have seen enough Pakistanis. From all provinces except Balochistan, so I know what I am talking about. I have visited Dubai too and met so many of you.


It's not about being dark or anything.

Balochis are dark. But have you seen their facial features?

Behold, a Balochi







Sindhis are a mix of browns and darks too but again the facial features!

Their faces aren't round like south Indians.

Behold a Sindhi





But they were speaking Punjabi

Behold a Punjabi





Now for a south Indian (Tamil)



Or we all know this guy






Show me ONE Punjabi guy who looks like this idiot and I will concede my argument.

What about this hero fresh out of Onam.


Now Hyderabadis


Seriously which Pakistanis look like them?

I hope next you guys won't claim that Indians and Pathans lookalike because you have Shahrukh Khan.


----------



## Awesome

Halaku Khan said:


> First India should see if Zardari is willing to work with India against Pakistani Jihadis (both within and outside the Pakistani forces). If he is, then India can deal with him.


Pakistan really needs some assurances from India that it would cease to attack Pakistan from its Afghan embassies too.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Neo

dabong1 said:


> Sky news is saying that two pakistani merchant ships have been hijacked by the indian navy.



Wtf?? Where did it happen?
Indian Territorial Waters or open sea?


----------



## Flintlock

^^Asim, stop that please. This is not some race discussion topic. I've seen enough of that crap with Roadrunner.

There is no hard and fast rule regarding what Pakistanis look like.


----------



## Halaku Khan

Asim Aquil said:


> You think anyone is laughing out of glee? We are not Laughing about you, we're laughing AT you. We have seen this episode before. This is like some re-run. They are never able to catch a terrorist before. But within one day they pull out Abu Ismail out of their ***** and he is usually the mastermind, so he has credibility.
> 
> This is not us smiling, this us going WTF?



Never caught a terrorist before? Believe me, there are thousands. What about the guy Pakistan is now holding for murdering Daniel Pearl, and was released by India in the hijacking incident?


----------



## Kasrkin

> There is no hard and fast rule regarding what Pakistanis look like.



But there are OBVIOUS inclinations !


----------



## Goodperson

Asim Aquil said:


> Pakistan really needs some assurances from India that it would cease to attack Pakistan from its Afghan embassies too.



India does not use embassies for attacks CIA can ensure that.


----------



## Neo

dabong1 said:


> This is getting more and more bizzare............now the indians are saying that terrorists sailed from karachi all the way to mumbai.
> No disrespect to people killed but if it was that simple to invade mumbai ,why did the pakistani navy try it out?
> 
> Is there no coast guard....radar.....navy...protecting the coastline of india



They're also reporting that a fishing trawler was hi-jacked near Chennai and its crew beheaded, later the trawler was spotted off the coast near Goa.


----------



## dr.umer

Killing of ATS Chief Mr. Hemant Karkare and encounter cop Vijay Salaskar indicate these are revenge attacks. Did no one bothered to hear interview of terrorist with NDTV. He was asked where he is from and his reply was from Hyderabad Dekan. He was again asked from Pakistan Hyderabad and he said "Nahin Piyaray. India kay Hyderabad Dekan say". 

Foregin Intelligence Agencies don't operate like this. They have got more sophisticated ways to cause harm if required.


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## Flintlock

*2 Pak vessels apprehended off Gujarat coast*
Font Size


New Delhi : In its search to find the 'mother ship' of the terrorists who have attacked Mumbai, India apprehended two Pakistani merchant vessels off the coast of Gujarat in a joint operation carried out by the Navy, Coast Guard and the water wing of the Border Security Force (BSF).

"We have apprehended two cargo ships in a joint operation near the Gujarat coast while they were sailing to Karachi. They are suspected to be the ships that ferried the terrorists near to Mumbai coast yesterday," Home Ministry sources said.

The three sea-guarding forces were put on a high alert after intelligence agencies gave inputs about a merchant vessel, suspected to be involved in the Terror attacks on Mumbai since Wednesday, trying to move towards Karachi in Pakistan.

The forces were, in fact, conducting their routine joint exercises in the general area of the Gujarat coast when they received the intelligence inputs and they immediately diverted their assets for searching the run-away merchant vessel.

"In the evening, Indian ships sighted two ships including the one about which intelligence agencies had given a tip-off," Home Ministry sources said.

The Indian ships apprehended both the cargo ships, which were identified as MV Alpha and MV Al Kabir. Officers of the three forces were ascertaining the credentials of the crew on board the two ships, sources added.

2 Pak vessels apprehended off Gujarat coast


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## Vinod2070

Well, none of the train riders looked like the people you beheld here.

We are talking of a population of 170 million here with so many ethnicity. To say that one or two pictures can be used to generalize the way the people of Pakistan look is an exercise in futility.

But no point in discussing it further. I don't see it going anywhere.


----------



## Chanakya.10

Flintlock said:


> Asst. Commissioner Ashok Kamte: (RIP)



Our heroes are gone.....what about their families??

The biggest problem with us is that we dont give a damn about this shyt.....
All will write glamourous lines on the forum, and go to bed......90&#37; wont even remember this person in the morning when they wake up, coz we dont give a damn.......
125 gone from this world, politicians chanting same mantras and we dont give a damn.......
Some lunatics fire at us, and we dont give a damn.....

Someday, sometime, I will also be shot in some hotel or train or cafe or market or city.......and no one will give a damn.........Not this country, nor our politicians, nor anybody, coz i am a comman man.......

And about a common man, Govt. dont give a *damn*......


----------



## Kumar

shchinese said:


> you have already told us what he said, he said Muslims got treated badly and thus he had to pick up weapons.



If Muslims are treated badly in India then they should target Politicians or Police. 
Instead why target British or Americans ?


----------



## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> ^^Asim, stop that please. This is not some race discussion topic. I've seen enough of that crap with Roadrunner.
> 
> There is no hard and fast rule regarding what Pakistanis look like.


We can comment on the unlikely nature.

You know what? That kid also looks goan. C'mon doesn't he?


----------



## Imran Khan

smeaglegolum said:


> There is an analysis going on TV which say pakistan army/ISI could be behind this since Zardari made peace overtures towards India. They say it looks much similar like Kargil episode. The final aim is to stop peace dialogue b/w India and Pakistan.



and all of analysis from ex indian forces wich are most anty pakistan there ?


----------



## Awesome

Goodperson said:


> India does not use embassies for attacks CIA can ensure that.


What does CIA care?

It doesn't bother them. 

Those aren't even consulates, they are terrorist camps. Most Indians don't even bother denying it now. Why are you still harping the same ol tune.


----------



## smeaglegolum

These B****ds are carrying a lot of ammunition and they decided to be there for a long haul. What kind of terrorism is this?. How cowardly of these d*gs.


----------



## Neo

Chanakya.10 said:


> Our heroes are gone.....what about their families??



Rest in peace! 
Hope the terrorists are brought to justice.


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## Awesome

dr.umer said:


> Killing of ATS Chief Mr. Hemant Karkare and encounter cop Vijay Salaskar indicate these are revenge attacks. Did no one bothered to hear interview of terrorist with NDTV. He was asked where he is from and his reply was from Hyderabad Dekan. He was again asked from Pakistan Hyderabad and he said "Nahin Piyaray. India kay Hyderabad Dekan say".
> 
> Foregin Intelligence Agencies don't operate like this. They have got more sophisticated ways to cause harm if required.


The funny thing is, the hardcore army is not entering the Bathrooms where the Terrorists are holed up... But Karkare, the HEAD, a BUDDAH! Bald, white hair, big belly, went in to fight them off. 

Lol. I've been saying since yesterday, THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Nothing about this whole thing makes sense. Karkare was the target.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Chanakya.10

Neo said:


> Rest in peace!
> Hope the *terrorists are brought to justice.*



Shot on there forehead with a sniper, or with a shotgun on their chests...... Still there wouldnt be justice to them....

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> What does CIA care?
> 
> It doesn't bother them.
> 
> Those aren't even consulates, they are terrorist camps. Most Indians don't even bother denying it now. Why are you still harping the same ol tune.



And the proof is?


----------



## Kasrkin

> We are talking of a population of 170 million here with so many ethnicity. To say that one or two pictures can be used to generalize the way the people of Pakistan look is an exercise in futility.



Just like one is highly unlikely to see a pale skinned/blonde haired girl of Pakistani origin (regardless of how big Pakistani or British populations are), it is most improbable that someone with a Tamil facial features and Tamil dark (not brown) skin, short height and teenage years can be from Pakistan...


----------



## Evil Flare

So Now

Pakistan Blamed by India again like always .....


----------



## Neo

Halaku Khan said:


> We could also start looking to whether the Martians did it.



Ehm...no, Martians have no credible link to Pakistan or ISI yet, its waste of time and effort.
Look closer...what about Shiv Senna or BJP?


----------



## Chanakya.10

Asim Aquil said:


> The funny thing is, the hardcore army is not entering the Bathrooms where the Terrorists are holed up... But Karkare, the HEAD, a BUDDAH! Bald, white hair, big belly, went in to fight them off.
> 
> Lol. I've been saying since yesterday, THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
> 
> Nothing about this whole thing makes sense. Karkare was the target.





Excuse me!!

Plz gather information.....

Mr. Kakre went to CAMA hospital to check the injured, they didnt know that terrorists are also in that hospital, that is where he got killed....

I hope that now its not funny.........


----------



## Halaku Khan

Neo said:


> Same can be said for your side, you're eager to point all fingers at us ignoring the fact that there's a genuine homegrown threat. ..



Yes there probably are some Indians involved - organizations like the Indian Mujahedin are metastasized versions of Jihadi tumours like Lashkar-e-Toiba.


----------



## Awesome

Dude we're not like you guys who would go around crying boohoo about the evil Indians. We DO! Why do you think the Kabul Embassy is suspected to be targeted by ISI? We're not planning to take you to court to worry about proof.


----------



## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> The funny thing is, the hardcore army is not entering the Bathrooms where the Terrorists are holed up... But Karkare, the HEAD, a BUDDAH! Bald, white hair, big belly, went in to fight them off.
> 
> Lol. I've been saying since yesterday, THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
> 
> Nothing about this whole thing makes sense. *Karkare was the target.*



Can it get more bizarre?

Hundred plus people killed, so may places attacked to target one person. And they knew that Karkare could be targeted this way? Why not target him directly?

The conspiracy theorists don't bother with logic, it seems.


----------



## Goodperson

Vinod2070 said:


> And the proof is?



There is no proof. India under eyes of US and NATO is carrying out attacks inside Pakistan ?


----------



## dr.umer

Asim Aquil said:


> The funny thing is, the hardcore army is not entering the Bathrooms where the Terrorists are holed up... But Karkare, the HEAD, a BUDDAH! Bald, white hair, big belly, went in to fight them off.
> 
> Lol. I've been saying since yesterday, THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
> 
> Nothing about this whole thing makes sense. Karkare was the target.



Agreed Asim. In order to hide intelligence failures, they are now blaming Pakistan.


----------



## Chanakya.10

Neo said:


> Ehm...no, Martians have no credible link to Pakistan or ISI yet, its waste of time and effort.
> Look closer...what about Shiv Senna or BJP?





I know Shiv Sena and BJP are nationalistic organizations.....they would never do this to harm their own people....

And even if they were, y would they single out American, British, and Jewish tourists????

It is equivalent to say that PML-Q did Marriot blasts......Did they??????


----------



## Awesome

That is like officers resorting to kidnapping. The IN are the new Pirates of the Arabian?


----------



## Chanakya.10

dr.umer said:


> Agreed Asim. In order to hide intelligence failures, they are now blaming Pakistan.



Apparantly it is due to intelligence they are blaming pakistan


----------



## Awesome

Chanakya.10 said:


> I know Shiv Sena and BJP are nationalistic organizations.....they would never do this to harm their own people....
> 
> And even if they were, y would they single out American, British, and Jewish tourists????
> 
> It is equivalent to say that PML-Q did Marriot blasts......Did they??????


Was not Karkare actively pursuing Shiv Sena?

That terrorist Bal Thackeray would do anything to save his neck.


----------



## Awesome

Chanakya.10 said:


> I know Shiv Sena and BJP are nationalistic organizations.....they would never do this to harm their own people....
> 
> And even if they were, y would they single out American, British, and Jewish tourists????
> 
> It is equivalent to say that PML-Q did Marriot blasts......Did they??????


Was not Karkare actively pursuing Shiv Sena?

That terrorist Bal Thackeray would do anything to save his neck.


----------



## Goodperson

Asim Aquil said:


> Dude we're not like you guys who would go around crying boohoo about the evil Indians. We DO! Why do you think the Kabul Embassy is suspected to be targeted by ISI? We're not planning to take you to court to worry about proof.



No need CIA has also come out with proof videos can be seen on CNN site. Possible reflection could be Pakistan govts somersault with decisions regarding ISI, and far reaching changes in the agency.


----------



## Kasrkin

PML-Q is not an right wing religious organization...


----------



## pkpatriotic

*Terrified Americans describe Mumbai chaos *- CNN.com
*updated 1 hour, 18 minutes ago*
*(CNN) -- Americans and other foreigners were among those caught up in the bloodshed and chaos of the terror attacks in Mumbai, India, on Wednesday and Thursday.*

At least six foreigners were among the 125 dead, police said. Targets included two luxury hotels, the Oberoi and the Taj Mahal, as well as a cafe popular with Western tourists.

A man told a local television station that he was in the Oberoi around 10 p.m. Wednesday when gunmen entered the lobby and began rounding up guests, asking for anyone with a U.S. or British passport and taking about 15 of them hostage. 

Fire raged at the Oberoi, the scene of much bloodshed as explosions and gunshots rang out Thursday morning. Outside the Taj Mahal, screaming and fighting broke out as reporters scrambled to capture the chaotic scene.

Australian filmmaker Anthony Rose told CNN that he had just arrived at the Oberoi hotel when he heard gunshots in the lobby and saw a fellow Australian shot in the leg and then shot at close range in the head by one of the attackers. 

He said that he and others in his film crew fled through back doors in the hotel to escape the shooters.

A woman from Nashville, Tennessee, was shot in the arm and leg by the attackers, who barged into a ballroom at her hotel, her husband told CNN affiliate WSMV. 

Andi Varagona operates a holistic health clinic in Nashville and was in Mumbai for training, her husband, Santos Lopez, told the station. 

According to Lopez, his wife called him and said, "We were ambushed and we were shot."

When he asked Varagona if she was all right, she told him she had been shot in the leg and arm and was at that moment being wheeled into surgery, Lopez said. 

"My God, I cried more than I cried in my entire life," Lopez told WSMV. "I mean, it's just been so overwhelming with emotion. ... You tend to believe that things that happen in the world happen to other people, until it happens to you." 

WSMV is reporting that Varagona came out of surgery Wednesday night -- a bullet removed from her leg.

An American woman, who was still inside the Taj with her husband, told CNN by phone Thursday that television feeds into the rooms had stopped and she did not know what was going on. 

"We have water and we're hunkered down and patient and ready to wait it out," she said. "We're OK. Last night was a different story, but today we're OK." 

The woman, whom CNN is not identifying so as not to disclose her location to the gunmen, said she heard gunfire outside her room Wednesday night and "a man with an American accent screaming for help." 

Aparna Dash, an American who lives in Pennsylvania but is visiting Mumbai on business, was staying at the Oberoi hotel. She was on the phone with her husband, who was in the United States, when the first explosions rang out. 

"She thought it was firecrackers and didn't think much of it," her husband, Biswa Dash, told CNN. "But then in the coming hours, she realized what was going on and all the people in the hotel began trying to get out, to rush down the stairs."

Aparna Dash had made it down to the fifth floor from her room on the 26th floor, her husband said, and found an American woman sitting on the stairs, dazed and crying. 

"They were telling [the woman] that she needed to get up and keep moving," said Biswa Dash, recounting what his wife told him. "She was crying and saying that there were all these people piled on top of each other and that the armed men had come at them just straight on -- without masks, without trying to hide their faces at all. Just charging at them with their ammunition and their AK-47s."

Indian Prime Minister Moanmohan Singh said the attackers were likely foreigners, but he did not name a country where he believed they were from. Officially, the Indian authorities are saying no one has claimed responsibility. A group called the Deccan Mujahideen took credit in e-mails sent to several Indian news outlets. 

Authorities found 8 kilograms (17 pounds) of RDX, one of the most powerful military explosives, at a restaurant near the Taj, indicating that the attackers may have been planning more violence.

A woman whom CNN is only identifying by her first name -- Andrea -- spoke to CNN from Mumbai, where she is visiting for her brother's wedding. She is staying at a hotel a few blocks from the Taj.

She heard the explosions Wednesday and then immediately got a call from her brother, who lives in Hong Kong. He was worried, saying that he had heard reports of gunfire. "And we were like, 'Yeah, gunshots, we're from New Orleans, whatever,' " Andrea said.

A few hours later, she said, her brother called back and said, "This is a big deal, put on the TV."

"That's when we figured out what was going on," Andrea said.

"Over the course of the night we heard maybe three explosions, some emergency vehicles, sirens. For the most part the street was really quiet," she said. "We've been watching the news the whole time, just like everyone else." 

She needed water, so she left her hotel and a person at a restaurant helped her, she said. She has since been in contact with the U.S. embassy and the family is moving the wedding.


----------



## Awesome

Chanakya.10 said:


> Excuse me!!
> 
> Plz gather information.....
> 
> Mr. Kakre went to CAMA hospital to check the injured, they didnt know that terrorists are also in that hospital, that is where he got killed....
> 
> I hope that now its not funny.........


Lol, so he wasn't doing a rescue Op as so many have claimed before?

Are there any facts to this at all?

Now Karkare was killed! This makes things even more suspicious. The Hindu terrorists could've just orchestrated all this to get rid of him in the chaos.


----------



## Vinod2070

Goodperson said:


> There is no proof. India under eyes of US and NATO is carrying out attacks inside Pakistan ?



It has gone beyond that.

Now those at the cutting edge of conspiracy theories suggest that USA is part of the plan.


----------



## Awesome

Goodperson said:


> No need CIA has also come out with proof videos can be seen on CNN site. Possible reflection could be Pakistan govts somersault with decisions regarding ISI, and far reaching changes in the agency.


All the changes make ISI nice to America. We're still not going to play nice with Indian terrorists.


----------



## Neo

Chanakya.10 said:


> I know Shiv Sena and BJP are nationalistic organizations.....they would never do this to harm their own people....
> 
> And even if they were, y would they single out American, British, and Jewish tourists????



How do you know that? Both BJP and Shiv Sena are nationalist parties known for their hindutva drive. Both will gain from this.


----------



## Goodperson

Manmohan singh government will be under pressure to react strongly against terrorists mastermind, it soft approach ain't working.


----------



## dr.umer

Vinod2070 said:


> Can it get more bizarre?
> 
> Hundred plus people killed, so may places attacked to target one person. And they knew that Karkare could be targeted this way? Why not target him directly?
> 
> The conspiracy theorists don't bother with logic, it seems.



Who said he was targeted in-directly? What about Vijay Salaskar, the famous "encounter specialist" who has arrested, tortured and killed many Indian Muslims in so called anti-terror operations. 

Yes, such outcome of revenge is condemnable, but so were the proof less operations of Indian anti-terror squads against Muslims.


----------



## Black Stone

Good to know that some Americans got out safely. It says that 6 foreigners were among the dead. Any confirmation of them being American?.


----------



## Goodperson

Neo said:


> How do you know that? Both BJP and Shiv Sena are nationalist parties known for their hindutva drive. Both will gain from this.



Please talk sense.


----------



## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> Lol, so he wasn't doing a rescue Op as so many have claimed before?
> 
> Are there any facts to this at all?
> 
> Now Karkare was killed! This makes things even more suspicious. The Hindu terrorists could've just orchestrated all this to get rid of him in the chaos.



You are making fun of Bollywood movies theories, and here you've just manufactured the most fanciful bollywood tale possible.

Kudos!


----------



## Chanakya.10

Asim Aquil said:


> Was not Karkare actively pursuing Shiv Sena?
> 
> That terrorist Bal Thackeray would do anything to save his neck.






Oh wow man.... That's what is the hero of conspiracy theories.......

There were firings at 7 different places in Mumbai simultaneously, how would those behind the conspiracy knew at which place would he go......

And wow all this huge plan, just to kill Hemant Kakre?????

Hats off to u Asim Sir!!!!!!


----------



## dabong1

News coming in that an indian coastguard has been arrested in connection to the attacks.
They also seem to have found a boat that was used by the attackers with satellite phones and other communications equipment left inside.....why would the terrorist leave all the equipment inside the boat?


----------



## Chanakya.10

Black Stone said:


> Good to know that some Americans got out safely. It says that 6 foreigners were among the dead. Any confirmation of them being American?.



According to Indian reports, 9 foriegners, including 2 Americans are no more..

RIP to all who lost their precious lives......


----------



## Neo

Goodperson said:


> Please talk sense.



I am talking as much sense as your media and some of Indian members here.


----------



## Flintlock

Neo said:


> How do you know that? Both BJP and Shiv Sena are nationalist parties known for their hindutva drive. Both will gain from this.



They are Nationalist parties, that's why. 

Their agenda is to strengthen the country, not weaken it. 

You may hate LK Advani, but by God, he is one of the greatest leaders of men ever born on the planet.


----------



## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> You are making fun of Bollywood movies theories, and here you've just manufactured the most fanciful bollywood tale possible.
> 
> Kudos!


It's better than Pakistanis swam to Mumbai or no wait, came in boats and there is apparently a mothership which suddenly vanished, and waltzed into BIG hotels which have metal detectors, took up rooms, planned an attack, went in guns blazing without any real purpose, are looking to kill westerners but didn't kill the British MP...


----------



## Vinod2070

dr.umer said:


> Who said he was targeted in-directly? What about Vijay Salaskar, the famous "encounter specialist" who has arrested, tortured and killed many Indian Muslims in so called anti-terror operations.
> 
> Yes, such outcome of revenge is condemnable, but so were the proof less operations of Indian anti-terror squads against Muslims.



To say that this cowardly attack was targeted towards some particular individuals is displaying immense disregard to facts.

It was wanton killing, those who died were victims of wanton killings. The coward terrorists just wanted to kill as many innocents as they could. There is no way you can target anyone in particular in such a mess.


----------



## Awesome

Chanakya.10 said:


> Oh wow man.... That's what is the hero of conspiracy theories.......
> 
> There were firings at 7 different places in Mumbai simultaneously, how would those behind the conspiracy knew at which place would he go......
> 
> And wow all this huge plan, just to kill Hemant Kakre?????
> 
> Hats off to u Asim Sir!!!!!!


He was closing in on Hindu terrorists.

Just day before there was a threat to blow up his house.

Just the day before he was what every Hindu terrorist feared.

Today he was killed by Muslim terrorists.

What crap.

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## dabong1

Chanakya.10 said:


> Oh wow man.... That's what is the hero of conspiracy theories.......
> 
> There were firings at 7 different places in Mumbai simultaneously, how would those behind the conspiracy knew at which place would he go......
> 
> And wow all this huge plan, just to kill Hemant Kakre?????
> 
> Hats off to u Asim Sir!!!!!!



Let me tell about a conspiracy theory.......indian army attacked samjota express


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## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> It's better than Pakistanis swam to Mumbai or no wait, came in boats and there is apparently a mothership which suddenly vanished, and waltzed into BIG hotels which have metal detectors, took up rooms, planned an attack, went in guns blazing without any real purpose, are looking to kill westerners but didn't kill the British MP...



...except it just happened live on television.

So much for that.


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## Awesome

dabong1 said:


> Let me tell about a conspiracy theory.......indian army attacked samjota express


Man, your own army has been caught killing Indians!

At least give us the benefit of the doubt! May be they are killing Indians again!


----------



## smeaglegolum

For some of the people here, sky is the limit fot their logic and conspiracy theories. 

Some people on other forums suggesting that 

CIA and RAW planned this to attack pakistan just like they did with Iraq and Afghanistan.


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## Neo

Asim Aquil said:


> He was closing in on Hindu terrorists.
> 
> Just day before there was a threat to blow up his house.
> 
> Just the day before he was what every Hindu terrorist feared.
> 
> Today he was killed by Muslim terrorists.
> 
> What crap.



And those hindu terrorist are still out there, ready to strike where ever they want.


----------



## dr.umer

Chanakya.10 said:


> Apparantly it is due to intelligence they are blaming pakistan



I disagree. 

They have always blamed Pakistan so nothing new but they have always FAILED to provide any evidence. Now boats from Pakistan have been found. Where the hell were these boats 2 days back and why they were not spotted? 

I have never heard of any other Intelligence agency coming to conclusions so quickly. Were they sleeping before these terror attacks. You may be finding it hard to swallow this but facts remain intact. 

Foreign sponsored terror operations are different from as shown Hindi movies. I though you knew it.


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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> ...except it just happened live on television.
> 
> So much for that.


Oh do show me.
 
But that doesn't mean anything? Other than that he was killed then n there.


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## Imran Khan

Neo said:


> Ehm...no, Martians have no credible link to Pakistan or ISI yet, its waste of time and effort.
> Look closer...what about Shiv Senna or BJP?



sir what abut maligaoon case may be shiv sena or rss want to dievert medea on new isue and now ats chef also not more


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## Chanakya.10

Asim Aquil said:


> It's better than Pakistanis swam to Mumbai or no wait, came in boats and there is apparently a mothership which suddenly vanished, and waltzed into BIG hotels which have metal detectors, took up rooms, planned an attack, went in guns blazing without any real purpose, are looking to kill westerners but didn't kill the British MP...





Yes Exactly!!!!

Finally u got us..... Sigh!!!!!!


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## Awesome

Neo said:


> And those hindu terrorist are still out there, ready to strike where ever they want.


Yeah now that the only guy who wanted to arrest Hindu terrorists is dead and now they are back to pinning things on Pakistani terrorists.

What a U-turn. Just a few weeks back people were finally realizing that Indian Army has terrorists that want to bomb India. And this guy Karkare was highlighting it every day. And now he's killed. His death is a great loss to Pakistan.


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## Imran Khan

> CIA and RAW planned this to attack pakistan just like they did with Iraq and Afghanistan.



but they never say what happens with usa in afghanistan and iraq? we are not afghan or iraqi its pakistan bro wakeup


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## Goodperson

Asim Aquil said:


> He was closing in on Hindu terrorists.
> 
> Just day before there was a threat to blow up his house.
> 
> Just the day before he was what every Hindu terrorist feared.
> 
> Today he was killed by Muslim terrorists.
> 
> What crap.



There were no Hindu terrorist its only investigations by ATS and police against Hindu persons including a lady whose motorcycles was used in Malegaon blast, Police have not proven anything.

ATS chief Kakhkre was killed in the encounter with terrorist who also killed 124 innocent people including women and kids.


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## Vinod2070

Where in the world have "Hindu" terrorists attacked?

In Spain, Britain, USA, Saudi, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan. Algeris, Egypt, Jordan, Israel....

The word is an oxymoron. But it does give comfort to some here that they can try to tar others with the same brush with which they are tarred by so many in the world.

Except that no one is fooled. NOT ONE!


----------



## Chanakya.10

Asim Aquil said:


> He was closing in on Hindu terrorists.
> 
> Just day before there was a threat to blow up his house.
> 
> Just the day before he was what every Hindu terrorist feared.
> 
> Today he was killed by Muslim terrorists.
> 
> What crap.





*And to kill him 125 more people were killed in the plan..........
Just to kill Mr. Kakre 125 more people were killed, wow wow wowwww....*

Sir i m expecting replies from a senior member..... Plz have mercy....


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## Halaku Khan

dr.umer said:


> Killing of ATS Chief Mr. Hemant Karkare and encounter cop Vijay Salaskar indicate these are revenge attacks. Did no one bothered to hear interview of terrorist with NDTV. He was asked where he is from and his reply was from Hyderabad Dekan ...



This is interesting - Indians never refer to their Hyderabad as "Hyderabad Dekan". They just simply call it Hyderabad. As far as Hyderabad Sindh is concerned, Indians hardly ever talk about it at all. But typically Pakistanis say Hyderabad Dekan when talking about the Indian Hyderabad. Seems to indicate this individual was a Pakistani.

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## Neo

Goodperson said:


> ATS chief Kakhkre was killed in the encounter with terrorist who also killed 124 innocent people including women and kids.



How very convenient!


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## Evil Flare

I am very Sad with so many Innocent Lives Lost

But the " Inside Job " Word Cannot be ruled out


----------



## Flintlock

Neo said:


> How very convenient!



I've had enough of this crap. You can spin whatever yarns you want to.

Goodnight.

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## Neo

Chanakya.10 said:


> *And to kill him 125 more people were killed in the plan..........
> Just to kill Mr. Kakre 125 more people were killed, wow wow wowwww....*



Terrorists have no conscience, only agenda. It only shows their determination to reach their objectives.


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## Neo

Flintlock said:


> I've had enough of this crap. You can spin whatever yarns you want to.
> 
> Goodnight.



Good, I'm sick n tired of this finger pointing myself and won't take more bs from anyone!

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## smeaglegolum

Vinod2070 said:


> Where in the world have "Hindu" terrorists attacked?
> 
> In Spain, Britain, USA, Saudi, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan. Algeris, Egypt, Jordan, Israel....
> 
> The word is an oxymoron. But it does give comfort to some here that they can try to tar others with the same brush with which they are tarred by so many in the world.
> 
> Except that no one is fooled. NOT ONE!



and Bali, Indonesia, Sudan, India etc


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## Imran Khan

no tarerrst ceare abut lives they will kill 1000 if there target is behaind 1000 lives


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## dabong1

Goodperson said:


> There were no Hindu terrorist its only investigations by ATS and police against Hindu persons including a lady whose motorcycles was used in Malegaon blast, Police have not proven anything.
> 
> ATS chief Kakhkre was killed in the encounter with terrorist who also killed 124 innocent people including women and kids.




ATS arrested Lieutenant Colonel Srikant Purohit. He is now said to have led the terrorist cell that carried out the Malegaon bombing. He is alleged to have given military training to the other suspects and, even more importantly, to have provided them with the military-grade explosive RDX.

Purohit and retired army Major Samir Kulkarniand, who also helped train the alleged bombers, are reputed to be the co-founders of Abhinav Bharat (AB, Young India Society)&#8212;a fanatical Hindu-supremacist organisation established in 2006 ostensibly to defend Hindus and fight against their &#8220;oppression.&#8221;

RDX was used in the Malegaon bombings and several other recent terrorist atrocities in India. Since RDX is very difficult to obtain, its use has been cited by Indian authorities, until now, as proof that those perpetrating the bombings must be from Islamicist organisations with ties to Pakistani or Bangladeshi military-intelligence agencies.


*RDX has been used in the mumbai attack.*

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## smeaglegolum

From the interview of the terrorist it is clear that *'He is Muslim'*, so where does Hindu terrorism comes from.


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## dr.umer

Halaku Khan said:


> This is interesting - Indians never refer to their Hyderabad as "Hyderabad Dekan". They just simply call it Hyderabad. As far as Hyderabad Sindh is concerned, Indians hardly ever talk about it at all. But typically Pakistanis say Hyderabad Dekan when talking about the Indian Hyderabad. Seems to indicate this individual was a Pakistani.



As far as Pakistan is concerned, they hardly talk about Indian Hyderabad. So seems this individual was an Indian. 

LOL ^ What planet are you from ?


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## Chanakya.10

Dammit............ I wish whoever responsible is fed himself with his cut b*lls.......

I mean whoever responsible.........


But alas!!!! i just dont c that happening!!!! and our impotent politicians will also let slip this opportunity to wipe out our enemies........


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## Vinod2070

Flintlock said:


> I've had enough of this crap. You can spin whatever yarns you want to.
> 
> Goodnight.



Agreed. The behavior of many has been most strange. This suggests that there is still the concept of good terrorist bad terrorist among many.

One thought that the lessons had been learned in the last few years and both countries thought it was a common scourge.

It seems it was a mirage. Too many still have sympathies for the terrorists and hide them with the useless conspiracy theories.


----------



## Neo

Vinod2070 said:


> Where in the world have "Hindu" terrorists attacked?
> 
> In Spain, Britain, USA, Saudi, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan. Algeris, Egypt, Jordan, Israel....
> 
> The word is an oxymoron. But it does give comfort to some here that they can try to tar others with the same brush with which they are tarred by so many in the world.
> 
> Except that no one is fooled. NOT ONE!



Their stage is India and India only, not the rest of the world. Keep ignoring them and blame Pakistan, good going!


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## dr.umer

smeaglegolum said:


> and Bali, Indonesia, Sudan, India etc



Please don't forget Babri Mosque, Gujrat, Orrissa etc.

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## Vinod2070

smeaglegolum said:


> From the interview of the terrorist it is clear that *'He is Muslim'*, so where does Hindu terrorism comes from.



But that part can be always ignored by those who are lapping up other BS from that bast***.


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## Goodperson

Neo said:


> How very convenient!



"Our chief *Karkare*, my senior officer *Salaskar *and Adnl Commissioner of police *Kamte died while engaging terrorists outside the Cama hospital. All of a sudden terrorists threw grenades at Karkare leading to chaos.*

ATS chief, 2 other top officers killed


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## dabong1

smeaglegolum said:


> From the interview of the terrorist it is clear that *'He is Muslim'*, so where does Hindu terrorism comes from.



NEW DELHI: Investigators hunting for the suspects in the firebombing of the Samjhauta Express believe that Lahore resident Sattar Khan may have been linked to Shahid Bilal, said to be having close connections with cadre of the Harkat ul-Jihad Islami (HuJI), a Bangladesh-based terrorist group. 

Among other operations, Bilal is alleged to have had overall command of an October 12, 2005 HuJI suicide bombing of the counter-terrorism Special Task Force headquarters in Hyderabad. He is also believed to have had close links with Rasool Khan `Party,' a Gujarat resident, who allegedly played a key role in sending local Lashkar recruits for training in Pakistan through Dhaka. 

Evidence that both the Lashkar and the Harkat have developed joint terror rings has been growing. For example, Hyderabad resident Mohammad Ibrahim, who was arrested in December 2006, told his interrogators that several Bangladeshis and Indians had been trained in terror camps southern Balochistan for attacks against India. Similar joint networks played a role in the Varanasi and Mumbai serial bombings. 

*Indian where so sure about Samjhauta Express .....you gave names,address,age's.heights and even where the terrorist had birthmarks.
You where totally wrong*

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## Goodperson

dabong1 said:


> ATS arrested Lieutenant Colonel Srikant Purohit. He is now said to have led the terrorist cell that carried out the Malegaon bombing. He is alleged to have given military training to the other suspects and, even more importantly, to have provided them with the military-grade explosive RDX.
> 
> Purohit and retired army Major Samir Kulkarniand, who also helped train the alleged bombers, are reputed to be the co-founders of Abhinav Bharat (AB, Young India Society)a fanatical Hindu-supremacist organisation established in 2006 ostensibly to defend Hindus and fight against their oppression.
> 
> RDX was used in the Malegaon bombings and several other recent terrorist atrocities in India. Since RDX is very difficult to obtain, its use has been cited by Indian authorities, until now, as proof that those perpetrating the bombings must be from Islamicist organisations with ties to Pakistani or Bangladeshi military-intelligence agencies.
> 
> 
> *RDX has been used in the mumbai attack.*



What did I said different ? 

RDX used in Mumbai blast was said to have been brought in boat.


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## Black Stone

Aamir Zia said:


> I am very Sad with so many Innocent Lives Lost
> 
> But the " Inside Job " Word Cannot be ruled out



That's right, this is a serious situation and desperate times. No possibilities should be ruled out and all possibilities should be looked into.


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## Chanakya.10

Terrorists highly-trained and motivated: Naval authorities

MUMBAI: Terrorists who have caused mayhem in the metropolis are not run-of-the-mill militants as believed earlier, but are "highly-trained and 

highly-motivated professionals". 

This was the observation of the elite Marcos Naval Commandos which had the first confrontation with the terrorists at the city's landmark Taj Hotel. 

"The terrorists are highly trained, motivated with where with all to mount a prolonged campaign," Vice-Admiral J S Bedi, Flag Officer Commanding, Western Naval Command said here. 

He said these observations were conveyed to him by his Marcos commandos. 

In the operations, Marcos seized stun grenades, hand grenades and other sophisticated ammunitions and ATM cards, plus US dollars from the terrorists. 

The terrorists were also found to be carrying huge loads of almonds, which can be used as food in long siege


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## dabong1

From a 100+ terrorist attacking mumbai its gone down to 20 terrorist that attacked.


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## smeaglegolum

dr.umer said:


> Please don't forget Babri Mosque, Gujrat, Orrissa etc.



Are you implying that Islamic terrorists also involved in these. What a shame.


----------



## Vinod2070

Neo said:


> Their stage is India and India only, not the rest of the world. Keep ignoring them and blame Pakistan, good going!



Its not a question of ignoring. Just look at the scale and the history.

There are at the max people in single digits who have been accused of that atrocity. Nothing has been proven as yet and people are starting to compare it with a global scourge that is a threat to civilization itself.

We need to deal with the small band of idiots but we can't forget who the real enemy of our country and our civilization is.

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## dabong1

Goodperson said:


> What did I said different ?
> 
> RDX used in Mumbai blast was said to have been brought in boat.



And the boats attacking mumbai could have easily have been launched from the southern coast of india or any other part of the ndian coast.
Just becauce the attackers came by baot does not mean they musy have come from karachi.

The RDX was supplied by the same people that attacked samjota.


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## dabong1

Vinod2070 said:


> but we can't forget who the real enemy of our country and our civilization is.



Pakistan is your eternal enemy...and where proud of it


----------



## smeaglegolum

Black Stone said:


> That's right, this is a serious situation and desperate times. No possibilities should be ruled out and all possibilities should be looked into.



Yes sad times just like 9/11. But I request GoI not to attack innocents without proof just like US attacked Iraq.


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## Chanakya.10

dabong1 said:


> Pakistan is your eternal enemy...and where proud of it



You should be as that is the basis of your identity.


----------



## smeaglegolum

dabong1 said:


> Pakistan is your eternal enemy...and where proud of it



Then be ready for that eternal fate.


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## Goodperson

dabong1 said:


> And the boats attacking mumbai could have easily have been launched from the southern coast of india or any other part of the ndian coast.
> Just becauce the attackers came by baot does not mean they musy have come from karachi.
> 
> The RDX was supplied by the same people that attacked samjota.



RDX Explosives were said to be found in boat from reports. Samjota attack was carried by different terrorist. Both of their mastermind need to be punished severely.

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## Imran Khan

smeaglegolum said:


> Then be ready for that eternal fate.



most welcome if indians do that.and please be serius if tarerrst kill your 101 people you can't threat pakistan don't show us its mass killings of indians and you ready for war.


----------



## dr.umer

smeaglegolum said:


> Are you implying that Islamic terrorists also involved in these. What a shame.



It is shame that minorities in India have to take such severe actions to be heard. Terrorism is terrorism. It is not based on Islam, hindu or Christianity. 

Those who are opressors are terrorist.


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## dabong1

Chanakya.10 said:


> You should be as that is the basis of your identity
> Then be ready for that eternal fate..


I would love for there to be peace,but i just stating the obvious........india will see pakistan as the enemy and the pakistanis will always see the indians as the enemy.............it could all be so differnt if there was real movement on kashmir


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## pkpatriotic

*We must united against terror*

Pakistan and India, at the fifth round of home secretary-level talks in Islamabad, have agreed to step up cooperation between their civilian agencies to fight terror and also other crimes including smuggling of narcotics, illegal immigration and influx of fake currency. Pakistan's Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) and India's Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI), both civilian, are to work together for this. 

The step is significant as the issue of cross-border terrorism is one that has repeatedly led to tensions between the two countries. Indeed, during this round of talks too, the Pakistani official led by the secretary for the interior asked India to stop playing the blame game. During the dialogue, the Indian side had asserted that India's most wanted criminal, Dawood Ibrahim, was in Pakistan. Pakistan denied this and in turn asked India for more details regarding the investigation into the Samjhota Express blast of February 2007. At least 60 people, most of them Pakistanis returning home from India, died in the incident in which an Indian army colonel has now confessed involvement. Like other incidents before it, this attack on the cross-border train too seemed to be aimed at hurting the peace process underway between the two countries. It seems likely that such attempts will continue. They are most likely to succeed in an environment of mutual distrust and suspicion, in which the two sides are unwilling to share information with each other. Most recently, India has accused Pakistan of involvement in blasts in its cities and the suicide bombing at its embassy in Kabul. Making an attempt to clear the air and ensure that acts of terrorism do not disrupt peace talks is vital at this point, when Pakistan's president has spoken on more than one occasion of a new relationship with India and of his willingness to do all he can to work towards this. He has suggested he is ready to take rapid strides forward in this direction. India's prime minister has implied his sentiments towards Pakistan are also good, although New Delhi has yet to state what its response is to Mr Zardari's proposals. 

Given that there are many vested interests that would benefit from continued animosity between the two South Asian neighbours, there is every possibility that attempts may be made to sabotage the process. For these reasons the move towards establishing a setup to work together against terrorism, by forming a two-member committee comprising the additional secretaries of the two countries, is a sound one. We must hope it succeeds in its intentions. While the two sides have agreed not to point fingers at each other following terrorist incidents in the absence of evidence, there is a need also to do more. As the Pakistani side pointed out, maltreatment of prisoners and other similar incidents add to distrust. There have been several recent cases in which Pakistanis held in Indian jails were evidently mistreated. Ending such abuses will be one step towards achieving improved understanding, the news.

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## Chanakya.10

I heard in news that young people are out in the streets shouting *JAI HIND* and _*BHARAT MATA KI JAI*_, i could sense which way it is developing out to be.......


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## dabong1

Breaking news........*the boats came from gujrat...india*

No mothership......no boats from karachi

Terrorist....Hindi accents heard........not urdu or punjabi.

Terrorist seem to be of indian orgin

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## dr.umer

*India's 'Mujahedeen': home-grown militancy?​*27 Nov 2008

*NEW DELHI: The previously unknown group that claimed responsibility for Wednesday's attacks across Mumbai has added to the growing belief that India is confronting a home-grown Islamic militancy, AFP reported.*

*The vast majority of previous attacks on Indian soil have been squarely blamed on groups based in or directly supported by neighbouring Pakistan.
But attacks over the last year have been claimed by groups with names stressing their local origins.*

'Deccan Mujahedeen,' which said it was responsible for the Mumbai assault, takes its title from the Deccan plateau that covers much of south India.
The outfit sent emails to local media saying it carried out the attacks.

A similarly shadowy group calling itself the 'Indian Mujahedeen' claimed responsibility for serial blasts in Delhi in September, which killed 20 people, and bombings in the western city of Ahmedabad in July when 45 died.

Another group, the 'Islamic Security Force-Indian Mujahedeen,' said it was behind explosions last month in India's northeast state of Assam that killed 80.

It is unclear whether the various groups are connected, but retired senior security official B. Raman has said their chosen names were a 'bid to Indianise' the Islamic militant movement.

The 'Indian Mujahedeen,' which also calls itself 'the militia of Islam,' first came to public attention last November following serial blasts in Uttar
Pradesh.

The same group sent another email to the media after blasts in May in the city of Jaipur in which it said it would wage an 'open war' against India for supporting the United States, and warned of more attacks against tourist sites.

Security services suspect the groups may be fronts for outfits that have been banned by the Indian government over the past few years such as the Students' Islamic Movement of India.

Others say they could be an undercover coalition of the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed militant organisations.

Just minutes before the blasts in Ahmedabad, the main commercial city of Gujarat state, the 'Indian Mujahedeen' sent emails to several TV news stations warning that people would 'feel the terror of death'.

It said the Ahmedabad blasts were revenge for riots which swept Gujarat in 2002 in which at least 2,000 people, mainly Muslims, were hacked, shot and burnt to death.

It has warned India's largest-circulation daily, The Times of India, and other media groups to halt their 'propaganda war' against Muslims.

And it has told Mukesh Ambani, India's richest businessman, to 'think twice' about his construction of a glass-and-steel 27-storey home on land in Mumbai where a Muslim orphanage once stood.


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## smeaglegolum

dr.umer said:


> It is shame that minorities in India have to take such severe actions to be heard. Terrorism is terrorism. It is not based on Islam, hindu or Christianity.
> 
> *Those who are opressors are terrorist.*



Bangladesh Genocide, ring the bells.


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## Chanakya.10

dr.umer said:


> It is shame that minorities in India have to take such severe actions to be heard. Terrorism is terrorism. It is not based on *I*slam, *h*indu or *C*hristianity.
> 
> Those who are opressors are terrorist.



Are these capital letters by mistake or with conscious??


----------



## Imran Khan

dabong1 said:


> Breaking news........the boats came from gujrat...india



sir link please or copy news haere thanks


----------



## smeaglegolum

*Coast Guard discover body in trawler*

A Correspondent | November 27, 2008 | 21:31 IST

Defence PRO in Mumbai Captain Nambiar confirmed that a dead body has been discovered in a trawler intercepted off the coast of Mumbai. It is being escorted back into the Mumbai harbour and the body and crew will be handed over to the police.


----------



## Nihat

imran khan said:


> most welcome if indians do that.and please be serius if tarerrst kill your 101 people you can't threat pakistan don't show us its mass killings of indians and you ready for war.



Thats very hard to understand Imran (as usual)

Anyway , I don't think a failing country like Pakistan has the capability for this kind of blasts , there may be some modules based over there but attacks are all carried out by Locals .

About this India being unfair to Muslim is something I cannot understand really , when BJP was in power i.e. 1999-04 , there were hardly any such attacks and not so frequently and they were the ones who were supposed to be Abusing muslims.

when Congress is in power which is a 1000 times more benign to Muslims , they even revoked POTA , these attacks have popped up again and with such impunity .

Does this make a case for the "Anti-Muslim" BJP again , so that India can breathe in peace.


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## Munir

Chanakya.10 said:


> Ya we are a threat to everybody around.....
> 
> Our people are being killed, and we are the threat.....Isnt it schinese according to you great conclusive logical powers?



An Indian media report said a previously unknown group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen claimed responsibility for the attacks in e-mails to several media outlets. There was no way to verify that claim.
Rohan Gunaratna, a terrorism expert at the International Center for Political Violence and Terrorism Research in Singapore, said he believed the terrorists were from India.
"The earlier generation of terrorist groups in India were mostly linked to Pakistan," he said. "But today we are seeing a dramatic change. They are almost all homegrown groups."
Associated Press


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## Chanakya.10

Munir said:


> An Indian media report said a previously unknown group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen claimed responsibility for the attacks in e-mails to several media outlets. There was no way to verify that claim.
> Rohan Gunaratna, a terrorism expert at the International Center for Political Violence and Terrorism Research in Singapore, said he believed the terrorists were from India.
> "The earlier generation of terrorist groups in India were mostly linked to Pakistan," he said. "But today we are seeing a dramatic change. They are almost all homegrown groups."
> Associated Press





Just read the post to which i replied.......


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## dabong1

imran khan said:


> sir link please or copy news haere thanks



Breaking news........*the boats came from gujrat...india*

No mothership......no boats from karachi

Terrorist....Hindi accents heard........not urdu or punjabi.

Terrorist seem to be of indian orgin
CNBC TV18 Video: Free Videos Online. Video Clips, Video Movies, Live TV & More at In.com

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## dr.umer

smeaglegolum said:


> Bangladesh Genocide, ring the bells.



Firstly this is not a thread to discuss Bangladesh. Secondly my friend I think bells, alarms & sirens are ringing at your end so let's discuss that. 

Try to stay on topic.


----------



## Chanakya.10

Two Pak vessels apprehended off Gujarat coast

In its search to find the 'mother ship' of the terrorists who have attacked Mumbai, India on Thursday apprehended two Pakistani merchant vessels off the coast of Gujarat in a joint operation carried out by the Navy, Coast Guard and the water wing of the Border Security Force.

"We have apprehended two cargo ships in a joint operation near the Gujarat coast while they were sailing to Karachi. They are suspected to be the ships that ferried the terrorists near to Mumbai coast on Wednesday," Home Ministry sources told PTI.

The three sea-guarding forces were put on a high alert after intelligence agencies gave inputs about a merchant vessel, suspected to be involved in the terror attacks on Mumbai since Wednesday, trying to move towards Karachi in Pakistan.

The forces were, in fact, conducting their routine joint exercises in the general area of the Gujarat coast when they received the intelligence inputs and they immediately diverted their assets to search for the run-away merchant vessel.

"In the evening, Indian ships sighted two ships including the one about which intelligence agencies had given a tip-off," Home Ministry sources said.

The Indian ships apprehended both the cargo ships, which were identified as MV Alpha and MV Al Kabir. Officers of the three forces were ascertaining the credentials of the crew on board the two ships, sources added.


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## smeaglegolum

dr.umer said:


> Firstly this is not a thread to discuss Bangladesh. Secondly my friend I think bells, alarms & sirens are ringing at your end so let's discuss that.
> 
> Try to stay on topic.



Just pointing to you, you don't have moral high ground to say oppressors are terrorists. We will leave at this and stick to topic.


----------



## Munir

smeaglegolum said:


> Just pointing to you, you don't have moral high ground to say oppressors are terrorists. We will leave at this and stick to topic.



So only indians have? No wonder you are killing eachother.


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## dr.umer

dr.umer said:


> Those who are opressors are terrorist.





smeaglegolum said:


> you don't have moral high ground to say oppressors are terrorists.



I say again, all oppressors are terrorist and all terrorist are oppressors. 

I can't make myself more clear.


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## Munir

*Pakistan condemns Mumbai attacks*
By CHRIS BRUMMITT &#8211; 55 minutes ago

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) &#8212; Pakistan warned India against accusing of it links to the Mumbai terror attacks Thursday, saying doing so would "destroy all the goodwill" between the two nuclear-armed rivals.
The remarks by Pakistan's defense minister came hours after Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said militants based outside his country carried them out.
Singh did not single out Pakistan, which New Delhi has accused of complicity in terror attacks on its soil before, but his remarks are likely to be taken as a sign here that India suspects Pakistani links somewhere in the plot.
A serious deterioration in relations between Pakistan and India, which have fought three wars since 1947, would greatly complicate U.S. foreign policy in South Asia as it tries to get Islamabad to focus less on its southern neighbor and more on tackling al-Qaida and Taliban militants along the Afghan border.
In 2001, militants fighting Indian-rule in the disputed Himalayan region of Kashmir attacked the parliament in New Delhi, helping push the countries to the brink of war a year later.
The attack late Wednesday saw teams of gunmen attack at least 10 sites, including two luxury hotels, a railway station and a Jewish center, in the financial capital of Mumbai. More than 100 people were killed.
In an address to the nation, Prime Minister Singh said the group that carried out the attacks "was based outside the country" and warned its neighbors "that the use of their territory for launching attacks on us will not be tolerated."
Pakistan Defense Minister Ahmed Mukhtar condemned the attack, but said "we should not be blamed like in the past,"
"This will destroy all the goodwill we created together after years of bitterness," he told The Associated Press. "I will say in very categoric terms that Pakistan is not involved in these gory incidents."
Earlier, Indian navy spokesman Capt. Manohar Nambiar said navy officers had boarded a cargo vessel it suspected of ties to the attacks that had come to Mumbai from Karachi, Pakistan. He later said the ship was not linked in any way to the strikes.
Many analysts said Wednesday's attacks were more likely to have been carried out by indigenous, Indian extremist groups blamed for a series of bombings this year than Pakistani-linked ones.
They also noted that India's government stood to benefit politically for hinting at the involvement of its old rival &#8212; rather than admitting some of its own 145 million Muslims had become radicalized.
"It will always want to label this militancy as foreign rather than to accept it has its own problem," said Shaun Gregory, an expert on South Asian terrorism at the University of Bradford in Britain. "That sells much more easily to the Indian public than admitting serious grievances within its Muslims."
Relations between India and Pakistan have improved in recent years, helped by a reduction in the flow of militants into Kashmir, the divided and violence-torn territory at the core of their dispute.
Pakistan's new president, Asif Ali Zardari, declared over the weekend that India posed no threat to Pakistan and called for the heavily militarized border to be opened for trade.
Earlier, Pakistan's foreign minister said his country would cooperate in any investigation. He too warned against early speculation about the perpetrators.
"Let us not go in for knee-jerk reactions," said Shah Mehmood Qureshi, who was in India for talks on a slow-moving South Asian peace process.
An Indian media report said a previously unknown group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen claimed responsibility for the attacks in e-mails to several media outlets. There was no way to verify that claim.
Rohan Gunaratna, a terrorism expert at the International Center for Political Violence and Terrorism Research in Singapore, said he believed the terrorists were from India.
"The earlier generation of terrorist groups in India were mostly linked to Pakistan," he said. "But today we are seeing a dramatic change. They are almost all homegrown groups."

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## Black Stone

smeaglegolum said:


> Yes sad times just like 9/11. But I request GoI not to attack innocents without proof just like US attacked Iraq.



I like the last part of your post. Were you implying India is more of a saint when it comes to proofs or you just taking an indirect swipe at the US? or both?.


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## Black Stone

Pakistan condemns Mumbai Terror attacks

Pakistan's president and premier strongly condemn the terrorist attacks on Indian port city of Mumbai that killed more than 125 people. 

In separate statements, President Asif Ali Zardari and Premier Syed Yousaf Raza Gilani deplored the attacks and pledged their full cooperation with Indian authorities in fighting terrorism, Press TV correspondent in Pakistan reported Thursday. 

"Our grieves are with the families and friends of those killed and injured. Pakistan and India will continue their joint struggles to counter the actions of terrorists," a statement quoted Zaradari as saying. 

Gilani also strongly condemned the violence and said Pakistan had always opposed terrorism, the statement noted. 

Zardari and Gilani further stressed the need for taking strict measures to root out terrorism and extremism in the region. 

The comments are made after gunmen targeted several sites across Mumbai late on Wednesday, killing 125 people and injuring 327 others. 

India has in the past accused elements in Pakistan of supporting militants fighting Indian rule in the disputed Kashmir region, and of complicity in bomb attacks elsewhere in India. 

Relations have improved between the two neighboring countries under the PPP-led government in Islamabad.


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## smeaglegolum

Black Stone said:


> I like the last part of your post. Were you implying India is more of a saint when it comes to proofs or you just taking an indirect swipe at the US? or both?.



Both. Western countries have always arm twisted in doing rightful job by Indian army even when we had proofs. (Kargil, Parliament attack)


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## Skywalker

Chanakya.10 said:


> Two Pak vessels apprehended off Gujarat coast
> 
> In its search to find the 'mother ship' of the terrorists who have attacked Mumbai, India on Thursday apprehended two Pakistani merchant vessels off the coast of Gujarat in a joint operation carried out by the Navy, Coast Guard and the water wing of the Border Security Force.
> 
> "We have apprehended two cargo ships in a joint operation near the Gujarat coast while they were sailing to Karachi. They are suspected to be the ships that ferried the terrorists near to Mumbai coast on Wednesday," Home Ministry sources told PTI.
> 
> The three sea-guarding forces were put on a high alert after intelligence agencies gave inputs about a merchant vessel, suspected to be involved in the terror attacks on Mumbai since Wednesday, trying to move towards Karachi in Pakistan.
> 
> The forces were, in fact, conducting their routine joint exercises in the general area of the Gujarat coast when they received the intelligence inputs and they immediately diverted their assets to search for the run-away merchant vessel.
> 
> "In the evening, Indian ships sighted two ships including the one about which intelligence agencies had given a tip-off," Home Ministry sources said.
> 
> The Indian ships apprehended both the cargo ships, which were identified as MV Alpha and MV Al Kabir. Officers of the three forces were ascertaining the credentials of the crew on board the two ships, sources added.



Whatever happened in Mimbai is indeed unacceptable as the valuable lives lost and like any other Proud Pakistani I condemn that, but as usual blaming Pakistan for your internal problems is not acceptable. Your pathetic media can only do this so that more people listen to them. Boats found near mumbai means that anyone can sneak in whenever they feel like ( aapki navy ko chuloo bhar pani mein doob merna chayyeh). 

By apprehending two merchant marine ships wont help, IN is looking for a scape goat and they have found it.

The only thing I can pray now that your mature media gets mature now and stop playing with layman's emotions, cause they dont know what is right and what is wrong.

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## dr.umer

*India&#8217;s Islamic Militants Shift Target to Foreigners, Economy ​*
Nov 28, 2008

By James Rupert

Nov. 28 (Bloomberg) -- *The terrorist attacks in Mumbai show India&#8217;s home-grown Islamic militant movement is aligning its campaign with those in the broader Muslim world, while seeking to hit economic interests, intelligence analysts said. *

Gunmen who stormed hotels and other tourist sites in India&#8217;s financial capital -leaving at least 101 dead and 290 injured -- displayed a greater degree of organization, sophistication and determination than in strikes of recent years, said B. Raman, the former counter-terrorism director of India&#8217;s intelligence agency, the Research and Analysis Wing. 

The violence &#8220;seems to be part of a chain of attacks dating back to last year&#8221; by a domestic militant group called the Indian Mujahideen, which in recent statements has &#8220;made references to the &#8216;war of civilizations,&#8217;&#8221; signaling a mindset close to international groups such as al-Qaeda, Raman said. 

After years in which Indian Muslim extremists have focused on the country&#8217;s Hindu majority, the militants&#8217; targeting of Americans and Britons gives them common cause with global Islamist groups like al-Qaeda and at the same time strikes the international links that have helped India&#8217;s economy grow at 9 percent or more for each of the past three years. 

Previously, their aim was &#8220;to incite communal strife between Hindus and Muslims,&#8221; said Reva Bhalla, director of geopolitical analysts at Stratfor, a private intelligence company in Austin, Texas. The latest attacks were aimed at &#8220;spreading fear to Western tourists and businesspeople, hitting at India&#8217;s economic lifelines,&#8221; Bhalla said. 

*Riskiest Country *

On the night of Nov. 26, militants armed with grenades and rifles stormed into the Taj Mahal Palace and Tower hotel and the Oberoi Trident complex, singling out foreign nationals and taking hostages. The attack has added a new dimension to a wave of bombings that rocked Indian cities this year, killing more than 300 people in markets, theaters and at religious sites. 

Hong Kong-based Political & Economic Risk Consultancy Ltd. rates India the riskiest of 14 Asian countries, not including Pakistan and Afghanistan, it analyzed for the coming year. 

&#8220;One of the reasons was the threat of terrorism,&#8221; said the firm&#8217;s managing director, Robert Broadfoot, in a telephone interview. &#8220;Between January 2004 and September 2008, deaths from terrorist attacks were second only to those in Iraq.&#8221; 

While &#8220;no immediate, definite evidence&#8221; showed which group attacked in Mumbai, &#8220;this seems driven by the same mind&#8221; as the past year&#8217;s bombings claimed by the Indian Mujahideen, Raman said. 

*Spreading Fear *

The Indian Mujahideen came to public attention after militants used that name in a video sent to news organizations claiming responsibility for bombings on May 13 in the tourist city of Jaipur. Since then, &#8220;the Indian Mujahideen have authenticated claims by including photographs of their explosive devices&#8221; and other evidence in their messages, Raman said. 

A group called the &#8220;Deccan Mujahideen&#8221; claimed responsibility for the attacks, an official of India&#8217;s Home Ministry said. 

The Deccan region of India includes Maharashtra state, of which Mumbai is the capital. The group&#8217;s message appeared to include no authenticating evidence, Raman said. 

While the scale and ferocity of the Mumbai attack shocked Indians, Broadfoot predicted a limited long-term effect on its economy, which &#8220;doesn&#8217;t depend on tourism for its livelihood,&#8221; he said. &#8220;I don&#8217;t think it will be more than a temporary disadvantage. They&#8217;re already security conscious. Terrorists tried to blow up Parliament already.&#8221; 

*Pakistan Accused *

In terms of political stability, it may be &#8220;much better that they targeted foreigners in hotels rather than Hindu temples -- the backlash from that would have been horrendous,&#8221; Broadfoot said. 

Religious riots that killed 2,000 people in Gujarat in 2002 were sparked by the burning of a railcar carrying Hindu activists, allegedly by Muslims. 

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said in a televised speech yesterday that the Mumbai attackers were &#8220;based outside the country,&#8221; without saying where or offering any evidence. India has accused Pakistan&#8217;s intelligence services of abetting some of India&#8217;s deadliest terrorist attacks, including bombs on Mumbai trains that killed at least 200 people on July 11, 2006. 

Pakistan&#8217;s President Asif Ali Zardari and Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi condemned the Mumbai attacks yesterday. 

While Pakistan has backed extremist groups fighting India&#8217;s rule in the disputed territory of Kashmir, the Indian Mujahiddin are driven &#8220;mainly by local reasons, local anger,&#8221; said Raman. 
*
More Attacks *

Islamic militant groups operating in India &#8220;may assume different pseudo names but are driven by the same set of grievances and external abetment,&#8221; said N. Manoharan, a senior fellow at the Centre for Land Warfare Studies in New Delhi. 

Now, &#8220;India&#8217;s close relationships with the U.S. and European countries seem to have made them target foreigners for the first time,&#8221; he said. 

India may not have seen the last of such terror, warned Suba Chandran, the deputy director at the Institute of Peace & Conflict Studies in New Delhi. 

&#8220;These men are not poor and illiterate,&#8221; he said in a phone interview. &#8220;They are highly motivated youngsters with grievances real and imagined. There may be more such attacks until we address their grievances and improve intelligence gathering.&#8221; 

To contact the reporter on this story: James Rupert in New Delhi at jrupert3@bloomberg.net.

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## Black Stone

smeaglegolum said:


> Both. Western countries have always arm twisted in doing rightful job by Indian army even when we had proofs. (Kargil, Parliament attack)



I don't understand why you are taking a swipe at the US. The situation is confusing, no one knows the true motives and many possibilities exists. 

Therefore, it is reasonable not to overlook all the possibilities. No one is claiming a specific possibility as a fact, we are all just speculating the possibilities.

"Inside Job" is a possibility also, did you get sensitive when I agreed with Aamir Zia that an "Inside Job" possibility should not be ruled out?.


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## Black Stone

Mumbai's Taj hotel stand-off nearly over

Indian security forces have nearly completed their operation to flush out militants holed up in Mumbai's Taj Mahal hotel, officials say. 

National Security Guards (NSG) director general J.K. Dutt told the NDTV news channel late Thursday that police forces and army commandos were fully in control of the situation. "I am fully confident we will achieve our objectives," he said, adding that "In the Taj (hotel) there is one terrorist... he has been injured. I think we should be able to mop up the operation very quickly." 

Dutt's remarks came as some media reports said at least two militants were still on the eighth floor of the hotel. 

However, the commandos are now continuing to sweep through the nearby Oberoi/Trident hotel, where a number of guests -- including foreigners -- were either hiding in their rooms or being held hostage. 

At least a dozen gunmen were holed up at three sites in Mumbai nearly 24 hours after a series of devastating attacks in the city. 

An unknown group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen, has claimed responsibility for the attacks. However, security experts say the announcement could be a hoax or made under an assumed name. 

Gunmen targeted several sites across Mumbai late Wednesday, killing 125 people and injuring 327 others.


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## Halaku Khan

dr.umer said:


> As far as Pakistan is concerned, they hardly talk about Indian Hyderabad. So seems this individual was an Indian.





Precisely. That is why, when Pakistanis do want to talk about Indian Hyderabad, they say Hyderabad Deccan. An Indian wanting to talk about Indian Hyderabad would say just Hyderabad.



dr.umer said:


> LOL ^ What planet are you from ?



You are quite welcome to LOL, although I am not sure what you are laughing about.


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## was

Pakistan condemns Mumbai attacks




*ISLAMABAD, Pakistan &#8211; Pakistan warned India against accusing of it links to the Mumbai terror attacks Thursday, saying doing so would "destroy all the goodwill" between the two nuclear-armed rivals.

The remarks by Pakistan's defense minister came hours after Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said militants based outside his country carried them out.

Singh did not single out Pakistan, which New Delhi has accused of complicity in terror attacks on its soil before, but his remarks are likely to be taken as a sign here that India suspects Pakistani links somewhere in the plot.

A serious deterioration in relations between Pakistan and India, which have fought three wars since 1947, would greatly complicate U.S. foreign policy in South Asia as it tries to get Islamabad to focus less on its southern neighbor and more on tackling al-Qaida and Taliban militants along the Afghan border.

In 2001, militants fighting Indian-rule in the disputed Himalayan region of Kashmir attacked the parliament in New Delhi, helping push the countries to the brink of war a year later.

The attack late Wednesday saw teams of gunmen attack at least 10 sites, including two luxury hotels, a railway station and a Jewish center, in the financial capital of Mumbai. More than 100 people were killed.

In an address to the nation, Prime Minister Singh said the group that carried out the attacks "was based outside the country" and warned its neighbors "that the use of their territory for launching attacks on us will not be tolerated."

Pakistan Defense Minister Ahmed Mukhtar condemned the attack, but said "we should not be blamed like in the past,"

"This will destroy all the goodwill we created together after years of bitterness," he told The Associated Press. "I will say in very categoric terms that Pakistan is not involved in these gory incidents."

Earlier, Indian navy spokesman Capt. Manohar Nambiar said navy officers had boarded a cargo vessel it suspected of ties to the attacks that had come to Mumbai from Karachi, Pakistan. He later said the ship was not linked in any way to the strikes.

Many analysts said Wednesday's attacks were more likely to have been carried out by indigenous, Indian extremist groups blamed for a series of bombings this year than Pakistani-linked ones.

They also noted that India's government stood to benefit politically for hinting at the involvement of its old rival &#8212; rather than admitting some of its own 145 million Muslims had become radicalized.

"It will always want to label this militancy as foreign rather than to accept it has its own problem," said Shaun Gregory, an expert on South Asian terrorism at the University of Bradford in Britain. "That sells much more easily to the Indian public than admitting serious grievances within its Muslims."

Relations between India and Pakistan have improved in recent years, helped by a reduction in the flow of militants into Kashmir, the divided and violence-torn territory at the core of their dispute.

Pakistan's new president, Asif Ali Zardari, declared over the weekend that India posed no threat to Pakistan and called for the heavily militarized border to be opened for trade.

Earlier, Pakistan's foreign minister said his country would cooperate in any investigation. He too warned against early speculation about the perpetrators.

"Let us not go in for knee-jerk reactions," said Shah Mehmood Qureshi, who was in India for talks on a slow-moving South Asian peace process.

An Indian media report said a previously unknown group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen claimed responsibility for the attacks in e-mails to several media outlets. There was no way to verify that claim.

Rohan Gunaratna, a terrorism expert at the International Center for Political Violence and Terrorism Research in Singapore, said he believed the terrorists were from India.

"The earlier generation of terrorist groups in India were mostly linked to Pakistan," he said. "But today we are seeing a dramatic change. They are almost all homegrown groups."


*

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## Chanakya.10

One terrorist left in Taj hotel, says NSG
28 Nov 2008, 0030 hrs IST, PTI

MUMBAI: The NSG, which is engaged in a gun battle with the terrorists at Taj hotel here, said just one terrorist was still hiding and hoped to 

wrap up the flush-out operation at the Trident-Oberoi hotel and Nariman House very soon. 

"There is one terrorist in the Taj (hotel). He has been injured and I think we will be able to mop up the operation there very quickly," Director General of National Security Guard (NSG) J K Dutt said. 

He said the injured terrorist has not yet been captured but "we will be able to do so soon". 

Dutt said two terrorists are holed up in the 8th floor of the Oberoi hotel while in the Trident section the combing operation has been completed. 

"As far as Trident is concerned, we have been able to completely clean up and we do not have any report of any terrorist being holed up over there. 

"As far as Oberoi is concerned, yes, we have engaged two terrorists on the 8th floor," he said. 

He said that the operation to clean up the Nariman House was still going on.


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## Imran Khan

> Same can be said about Pakistan which is only ruled by Punjabis, and very few balochis and pakhtuns....



your info is real cheap sir in this gov who is panjabi ? and past please Z A BHUTTU ZIA UL HAQ BENAZEER MUSHRRAF no one of them is panjbi are you realy think we don't know pakistan ? or we don't know india's shames


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## smeaglegolum

*Terrorists did recee,set up control rooms in luxury hotels*

Mumbai, Nov.27 (PTI) Terrorists who struck Mumbai had set up advance "Control Rooms" in the luxury Taj and Trident(Oberoi) hotels which was also targeted and did prior reconnaisance executing plans worked "over months", Union Cabinet minister Kapil Sibal said tonight.
Sibal said the unprecedented terror attack in the country's financial capital was planned "over months" and the terrorists were not carrying AK-47 rifles but sophisticated weapons like MP-6.

"The terrorists have identified the targets earlier. Somebody had told them earlier. Enormous planning went into the incident. The terrorists were dropped by a mother ship and travelled in rubber boats which they docked (at Mumbai)," Sibal told CNBC.

Terrorists were not attacking people at random. It was a well though out plan, Sibal said.

They had targeted certain key police officers even when they were wearing vests and protective head gears, he said, adding the terrorists shot them dead within minutes of their arrival.

As security agencies pieced together various leads in the probe on India's worst ever terror strike, there were reports that a likely marine arm of the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Toiba may have been involved in the well-planned attacks that left 125 persons dead.

The Union Home Ministry said the terrorists chose the sea route and came to the city in boats before spreading out in the metropolis to carry out the sinister strike.

The assessment by the Centre as Mumbai continued to be under siege for the second day came amid reports that the leader of the armed terrorists involved in the attack was killed by his own men. PTI


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## was

indian media:isi isi isi isi isi isi isi haaaaaaaa
when deccan mujahedins claims resp. indian pm says there are from outside india
they don,t miss a chance for blaming pakistan even when they caught an army officer for bombings.
i am very sick of all this
we should have blame raw for marriot bombing if they want a blame game.
it is clear that india doesn,t want a peace process


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## Neo

dabong1 said:


> Breaking news........*the boats came from gujrat...india*
> 
> No mothership......no boats from karachi
> 
> Terrorist....Hindi accents heard........not urdu or punjabi.
> 
> Terrorist seem to be of indian orgin



Good thing they didn't sink it.


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## Neo

*Kindly request everyone to cool down and please stay on topic!
Thanks1*


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## Kharian_Beast

How is India going to learn from this tragedy. Will it place all blame on Pakistan or will India acknowledge it's problems and work closer with Pakistan. Call me crazy but I think situations such as these are perfect times for both countries to come together and solve a common problem. So far though I am seeing nothing but same old blame tactics from small to large thing tanks in India and elsewhere.

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## U-571

for now, it appears to be more obscure than before tht who actually is behind all these incidents, well, from my perspective, even the probabilities of inside job and american hands cant be ignored or neglected!!!


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## Neo

Kharian_Beast said:


> How is India going to learn from this tragedy. Will it place all blame on Pakistan or will India acknowledge it's problems and work closer with Pakistan. Call me crazy but I think situations such as these are perfect times for both countries to come together and solve a common problem. So far though I am seeing nothing but same old blame tactics from small to large thing tanks in India and elsewhere.



She's not going to learn anything, things will settle down in few weeks till there's another terrorist attack and the next one after that.

Its seems like Indian military establishment is preparing for war against Pakistan creating the ideal climate in wich western allies can easily be dragged into.


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## was

indian army chief has sayed that the pakistani guy is from FARIDKOT. now there isn,t any faridkot in pakistan.infact it is in india you can serach iit on googlearth


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## Cheetah786

Chanakya.10 said:


> Can anyone notice something on his right wrist??????
> 
> 
> PLz dont tell me it's what it looks like..................
> .



Could you please share with us all what is it that u have stoped at????

http://imageshack.us

Also tell me if iam wrong but didnt (ATS) chief Hemant Karkare was the one responsible for catching hindu extremist when the blame was being put on muslims his investigation led to actual terrorist.
That made him lots of enemies in india who didnt like him catching hindus and (ATS) chief Hemant Karkare being shot dead isnt that looks like they knew who they were looking for and knew where to shoot.


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## Imran Khan

was said:


> indian army chief has sayed that the pakistani guy is from FARIDKOT. now there isn,t any faridkot in pakistan.infact it is in india you can serach iit on googlearth



sir there is 2 faridkot one in india other in pak near multan


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## Patriot

was said:


> indian army chief has sayed that the pakistani guy is from FARIDKOT. now there isn,t any faridkot in pakistan.infact it is in india you can serach iit on googlearth


Correct..Faridkot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
it's in India

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## Imran Khan

*Situation Update 

At Nariman House: Two fresh blasts heard 
At Taj: Operation may go on till morning 
At Trident: 39 hostages safely rescued 
One injured terrorist inside Taj: NSG chief 
At least 2 terrorists still inside Trident Hotel *

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## Munir

Well, Either the Indians fail in getting in control or the attackers are well prepared and executing excellent the entire plan (whatever that may be). They did copy Heat... I think we moved towards a new era after 911. It is now openly and hard... Not blowing up a few but well targeted large area. Looking at the age they are not able to think this out without any help.


NEW CONCLUSION: I think that Indian nuclear assets are in danger. The world should make plans to make sure that they will be destroyed asap. And it raises questions about the nuclear deal with the US... Is this safe?


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## Cheetah786

AHMEDABAD: A fishing trawler that went missing on November 14 may have carried the terrorists to Colaba coast Wednesday police sources told TOI. 

This boat - Kuber - belongs to a fisherman from Porbander, Vinod Masani, who has been detained by Porbander police for interrogation. Indian Coast Guard spotted the boat with the body of captain Amarsing Naran, 30, in it. Four crew from Navsari and Junagadh districts are still missing. The Coast Guard is also looking for another missing boat which could have been used by terrorists. 

It is suspected that this trawler was captured by the terrorists on high seas to be used as their transport vehicle to reach Gateway of India from Karachi port. 

Sources in Porbander confirmed that the boat was traced by a Chetak helicopter of Mumbai Coast Guard some 20 nautical miles off Porbander. This boat had set sail for Jakhau in Kutch near India-Pakistan border for fishing on November 14. Usually these boats return from fishing within 10 days but this one did not. The fisheries department was alerted about this on November 24. Kuber, with a 118 HP marine engine, had five crew members on board. It has a maximum speed of seven to eight nautical miles per hour. The boat is 45x15x11 feet in size and costs Rs 30 lakh. It can carry up to 20 tonnes. 

Porbander district headquarters' Coast Guard is interrogating Vinod Masani and his brother Hiralal, who has the power of attorney for the boat. It is also suspected that the Pakistan Marine Agency helped the terrorists hijack the trawler. The missing crew include Balwant Prabhu, 45, Mukesh Rathod, 20, and Natu Nanu, 20, of Navsari and Ramesh Nagji, 37, of Junagadh. 

Porbander SP Dipankar Trivedi said, "We are in the process of interrogating some people.'' The suspicion is that terrorists used the trawler to reach Mumbai's marine borders and then used two inflatable boats to reach Colaba. 

Junagadh IG I M Desai said, "We have no confirmed information, but know about a fishing boat from Porbander that was missing.'' A massive manhunt was launched off the Mumbai coast on Wednesday by Coast Guard, Navy, marine wing of Mumbai Police and Customs after it became evident that most, if not all, of the terrorists had arrived in the city through sea route. 
Coast Guard's IG (Western Region) Rajendra Singh said three helicopters, two Dorniers, three large ships, two smaller vessels were involved in the search operation. 

About eight terrorists came in from the sea off Badhwar Park in Colaba in geminicraft (inflatable boat) with a 20-HP engine around 9pm on Wednesday. A police officer of the Cuffe Parade police station said fishermen near the jetty got suspicious as they deserted the boat and headed towards the road. "When the fishermen stopped them, they said,  humko tension hai  and pointed their weapons,'' said the police officer. 

Another officer of the Cuffe Parade police station said, "The fishermen told us they were about 10-12 men. They split into two groups. While one group went towards CST and other towards Colaba. The engine and chasiss number of the Yamaha motor engine used for the boat has been scrapped, so as to make it difficult to trace the place of purchase.'' 

A retired IPS officer said the fishermen had also called the police, but they came late. An official said boats deserted by terrorists have been found in Colaba and off Chowpatty. 

Meanwhile, a merchant vessel, MV Alpha, suspected to have ferried the terrorists, was intercepted on the high seas by Navy and Coast Guard warships on Thursday evening. Though some reports said the Vietnamese-registered MV Alpha had been given the "clean chit'', a senior Naval officer told TOI the ship was still being investigated after it was boarded by naval and Coast Guard personnel on the high seas off Gujarat's coast. "A probe will take some time. The vessel's crew and manifest are being checked,'' he said. 

Earlier, launching a surveillance with warships, Dornier aircraft and copters, armed forces began a hunt for "a mother ship'' which could have carried the perpetrators of the terror strikes since three inflatable Zodiac gemini boats were found abandoned at the dock near the Gateway of India. 

"MV Alpha, which came to Mumbai from Saudi Arabia on November 19 and left on Wednesday night, was found to be suspicious. It had sailed around 50 nautical miles away Mumbai by 7 am on Thursday,'' said an officer. 

A naval Veer-class guided missile corvette INS Vipul and a Coast Guard T-81 fast-attack craft were soon launched, along with two Dornier medium-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft, to track and intercept MV Alpha. 

Simultaneously, a Leander-class frigate INS Vindhyagiri was also diverted from its routine patrol at sea to hunt for the merchant vessel. Moreover, the IAF scrambled maritime-strike Jaguar fighters from Jamnagar to patrol the region. All this activity came amid indications that the aim was to block any attempt by a "suspect'' ship to reach Pakistan. 

"Ten Army columns (around 1,000 soldiers) and four units of marine commandos were deployed in and around the Taj Mahal and Trident hotels. An aerial and land surveillance at the approaches to the Mumbai harbour was also conducted, with antecedents of all vessels in and around the region being checked,'' said an official. 
Terrorists may have hijacked Porbander fishing boat-India-The Times of India


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## matti

Thats an orange band or string Hindus wear.


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## opinion786

First of all - its a very sad incident. My condolences to all Indians here. 

Some of my Indian friends here say, that this may be attempt by supporters of Sadwi Pragiya (who was related to Malaygaon blasts) and was arrested & traced by the capable ATS Karare. BJP overall supports Sadwi Pragiya.

Equally surprising is how three very capable men i.e ATC Karare, encounter specialist Salasker and Pandey .... were all shot (especially targeted) even before the official commando or army action started. 

Those that targeted them with such accuracy.... knew them by face.....unknown foreign terrorist cannot distinguish such capable officers.

This ATS Karare had arrested 20 people (including Sadwi) and had traced its links to serving army personnel.

IMO, it seems that the terrorist were working employees (joined recently) of the hotels and knew their ways through kitchen etc. That's why they shot the other chefs of the hotel... so that they won't be pointed out. 

Anyway, it'll take few days for the thruth to unfold.

P.S: sorry for the spelling of names.


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## smeaglegolum

Video of the Terrorist phone call to IndiaTV

Rediff iShare: Terrorist calling himself Sahadullah speaks to India tv

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Imran Khan

is this real call he say he is imran and mediea say sadullah guy say he don't know ant sadullah is this fake call ?


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## Munir

smeaglegolum said:


> Video of the Terrorist phone call to IndiaTV
> 
> Rediff iShare: Terrorist calling himself Sahadullah speaks to India tv



fake... Phone is better quality then the frequency are allowing to... I can post the opposite much more realistic just by using simple windows....


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## smeaglegolum

<object><embed src='http://ishare.rediff.com/images/player.swf' FlashVars='videoURL=http://ishare.rediff.com/embedcodeplayer_config.php?content_id=519878' name='aplayer' allowScriptAccess='always' allowFullScreen='true' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' height='322' width='400'></embed></object>


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## smeaglegolum

Another 'terrorist speaks' video

Rediff iShare: Terrorists speaks


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## Neo

smeaglegolum said:


> Video of the Terrorist phone call to IndiaTV
> 
> Rediff iShare: Terrorist calling himself Sahadullah speaks to India tv



Fake fake fake, very poor urdu with hindi accent.


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## Imran Khan

Rediff iShare: Commandoes moving in at the Oberoi Hotel

check these commandos shortage of equpment i think and looks they can't compaire with SSG units


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## M_Saint

As predicted earlier (http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...mumbai-under-siege-post227445.html#post227445),IND's Hindu extremists are clearly trying to take OBAMA ride(Alex Jones' Prison Planet: The truth will set you free!) with multiple objectives in their minds. IMO disintegration of FATA, BJP's election victory and rationalizing continuous Muslim's murder are foremost of them. Having seen the entire drama (Why destroy Pakistan?)
and subsequent Media manipulation to construct a case against PAK (Arm Yourself With The Weapons of Mass Education: Mumbai The Mossad Angle), there couldn't have been any better imitating scheme of FOX, CNN, CNBC's efforts paint non-existing/never heard shadowy AQ for its so-called involvement in 9/11's attack at that time. The first talker, agile Indian Media men are just the carbon copies of FOXI people. By sensationalizing, creating emotional hodge-podge of the event they are trying to rally people behind BJP and not letting dust to settle, so people can think it through by connecting all the dots. Doesn't it remind the entire 9/11, 7/11's aftermath? Wake up my PAK brothers. There is no WOT, it's war on ISLAM. Because only Islam offers justness, fairness as oppose to greed, riba and profiteering, that's why it is the stumbling block on Ambani, Mittal's empire building. It also reminded me how Kargil drama brought BJP in power. So, an imminent attack on PAK is a real possibility, especially when it would be a cake walk to bring it into submission (http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...we-ready-deal-iran-post226124.html#post226124)


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## smeaglegolum

*3 Lashkar fidayeen captured*

MUMBAI: Maharashtra Police investigators say they have evidence that operatives of the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba carried out the fidayeen-squad attacks in Mumbai &#8212; a charge which, if proven, could have far-reaching consequences for India-Pakistan relations.

*Police sources said an injured terrorist captured during the fighting at the Taj Mahal hotel was tentatively identified as Ajmal Amir Kamal, a resident of Faridkot, near Multan, in Pakistan&#8217;s Punjab province. Highly-placed police sources said two other Pakistani nationals had also be held in the course of intense fighting on Thursday.
*
All three, the sources said, identified themselves as *members of a Lashkar fidayeen squad.*

Based on the interrogation of the suspects, investigators believe that one or more groups of Lashkar operatives left Karachi in a merchant ship early on Wednesday. Late that night, an estimated 12 fidayeen left the ship in a small boat and rowed some ten nautical miles to Mumbai&#8217;s Gateway of India area.

Investigators say the fidayeen unit of which Mr. Kamal was a part then split up into at least six groups, each focussing on a separate target: Mumbai&#8217;s Nariman House, which is home to a large number of Israeli families and a Jewish prayer house; the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus rail station; the Cama hospital; the Girgaum seafront; and the Taj and Trident Oberoi hotels.


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## Imran Khan

smeaglegolum said:


> *3 Lashkar fidayeen captured*
> 
> MUMBAI: Maharashtra Police investigators say they have evidence that operatives of the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba carried out the fidayeen-squad attacks in Mumbai  a charge which, if proven, could have far-reaching consequences for India-Pakistan relations.
> 
> *Police sources said an injured terrorist captured during the fighting at the Taj Mahal hotel was tentatively identified as Ajmal Amir Kamal, a resident of Faridkot, near Multan, in Pakistans Punjab province. Highly-placed police sources said two other Pakistani nationals had also be held in the course of intense fighting on Thursday.
> *
> All three, the sources said, identified themselves as *members of a Lashkar fidayeen squad.*
> 
> Based on the interrogation of the suspects, investigators believe that one or more groups of Lashkar operatives left Karachi in a merchant ship early on Wednesday. Late that night, an estimated 12 fidayeen left the ship in a small boat and rowed some ten nautical miles to Mumbais Gateway of India area.
> 
> Investigators say the fidayeen unit of which Mr. Kamal was a part then split up into at least six groups, each focussing on a separate target: Mumbais Nariman House, which is home to a large number of Israeli families and a Jewish prayer house; the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus rail station; the Cama hospital; the Girgaum seafront; and the Taj and Trident Oberoi hotels.




now cat become out of bag seen guys story from indian writers compleate for new blame game and destable pakistan .it is that wich indians want to prove from last 24 hours .now all these incedents in india belong from pakistan and shuld we ready for one more standoff of militry like 2001


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## Cheetah786

smeaglegolum said:


> Another 'terrorist speaks' video
> 
> Rediff iShare: Terrorists speaks



rediff is a propogenda site if u belive them i can give you a good deal on slightly used brooklyn bridge.
here is another pic this guy wearing the same band 

http://imageshack.us


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## Imran Khan

so sad whats going on its not good for pakistan india both were these come from god knows well but i am 100&#37; shore that in this time GOP army or isi imposible even fever these kind of incedents.no way


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## Imran Khan

*President calls Sonia, condemns terrorism in Bombay *
ISLAMABAD, Nov 27 (APP): President Asif Ali Zardari on Thursday telephoned Congress leader Sonia Gandhi to condemn the terrorist attacks in Bombay that killed scores and injured hundreds.The President termed the killing of the innocent a detestable act and condemned the attacks in strongest possible terms. 
The President said militancy and extremism in all its forms and manifestations had to be eliminated and all countries need to cooperate with each other in this regard. 

The President asked Sonia Gandhi to convey his grief and sorrow to the people of India and to the families of those who lost their loved ones.


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## Imran Khan

*Indian media should stop blame game against Pakistan*: Shukla 
ISLAMABAD, Nov 27 (APP): Indian Parliamentarian, Congress Spokesman Rajiv Shukla Thursday said that none of the Central and Maharashtria governments has so far said anything about the linkage of Pakistan with Mumbai terrorist attacks. In a telephonic interview with Geo News, the Indian Parliamentarian said that such impression is being created by the Indian media which should be avoided. 

He said that &#8220;both India and Pakistan are victims of terrorism and instead of blaming each other they should cooperate in defeating the common enemy&#8221;. 

Shukla said that loss of innocent lives either in India or Pakistan is equally a regrettable phenomena and the media organizations should not create confusions on such occasions. 

He said that every Indian channel is in race to telecast the breaking news with regard to Mumbai attacks at a time when the lives of so many innocent people are still at risk. 

He said they are either claiming about the receipt of an E-mail or direct interaction with the people who according to them are responsible for the attacks.


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## BanglaBhoot

More propaganda or disinformation I think - 

*
'Gunmen aim to halt India's int'l ties'*

The multiple terror attacks that have rocked India's financial capital Mumbai were aimed at halting India's increasingly close relationship with the US, Britain and Israel, a senior Indian defense source told The Jerusalem Post on Thursday, noting that nationals of each country had been targeted. 

The attacks were also aimed at fomenting strife between India's well-integrated, sizable Muslim minority (third only in size to the Muslim population of Indonesia and Pakistan) and the Hindu majority, according to Colonel Behram A.
Sahukar, who has extensive practical experience in counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism in the Indian subcontinent.

"There have been growing strategic ties between India and the US... and growing ties between India and Israel," Sahukar said.

Indian-Israeli relations have "been getting stronger by the day," Sahukar noted, though he stressed that this did "not come at the expense of India's relations with Arab countries." 

Americans, British nationals and Israelis had been singled out in Mumbai as a result "of the closeness of their governments to us," Sahukar explained. The attackers perceive India's close ties with these countries and its partnership in the global war on terror "as a war against true Islam," he added.

Sahukar, a former Fellow in Terrorism and Security Studies at the Institute of Defense Studies and Analyses (IDSA) and a researcher at the United Service Institution of India in Delhi, said the raid and hostage-taking attack on the Nariman Chabad House in Mumbai was an opportunistic act by a jihadi group with ties to radical elements in Pakistan. 

At the same time, however, Israelis were not the main focus of the terror onslaught, he added. "This particular attack was expanded to include the Chabad House, but the [main] targets were Americans, and British nationals, because the UK is seen by the radicals as a poodle of the US," he said.

"If they wanted to hit Israelis they would hit Goa [south of Mumbai] or Manali [northeast of Dehli]," Sahukar said, naming hugely popular destinations among Israeli backpackers, where signs in Hebrew are commonplace, and where Sahukar said locals have even begun speaking some Hebrew because of the large numbers of Israelis passing through.

Sahukar said the attacks may have been launched by a coalition of home-grown Indian jihadi sleeper cells and Pakistan-based radical elements.
"The involvement of Pakistan is evident from the rubber dinghy boats found near the Mumbai waterfront, and past history shows that a sophisticated operation to coordinate and plan these simultaneous Fedayeen [martyrdom] attacks is necessary for sustainability and staying power," he added.

The attacks could also be linked to a group associated with Omar Sheikh, the man who beheaded the Jewish American journalist Daniel Pearl in 2002.

Sheikh, together with Maulana Mazood Azhar, were released by India in exchange for the release of 180 passengers on a flight hijacked by Muslim radicals in 1999.

"Omar Sheikh was later implicated in the murder of Daniel Pearl, and Mazood Azhar formed the Jaish e Muhammad group, which in conjunction with the Laskar e Taiyyaba launched several Fedayeen attacks against India's Parliament in December 2001, and in Kashmir since 1999," Sahukar said.

"This is not the first time that Westerners have been targeted, but it is the first time that they have been targeted on this scale and in such a violent manner," he added. Sahukar recalled how in June 1991, seven Israelis and one Dutch tourist were kidnapped from a houseboat in Srinagar, Kashmir. In the subsequent scuffle, one Israeli was killed and the others escaped. Other attacks on Westerners followed.

Sahukar said terrorism was now engulfing large cities in India due to crackdowns on trouble spots like Kashmir in recent years.

"This is shown by recent attacks in Gauhati and two other towns in Assam, Bangalore, Jaipur, Ahmedabad, Htderabad, Mumbai and also Delhi," he said.

"Terrorists will also use India's vast and vulnerable coastline to introduce radical Islamists and explosives, in conjunction with home-grown terrorists and the activation of home-grown Indian Muslim militants," Sahukar stated.

The name of the group which has claimed responsibility for the attack, Deccan Mujahideen, "does not really mean very much," according to Sahukar, who said the name appeared to be a front for members of the Indian Mujahideen and the banned terrorist organization Students' Islamic Movement of India.

The extremists are seeking to play off Hindu-Muslim tensions, which came to the fore in 1992, when Hindu radicals destroyed the renowned Babri Masjid mosque built on top of a Hindu holy place. Ten years later, 58 Hindus were burned alive by Muslim rioters in a train car in Ghodra. That incident was followed by dozens of attacks on Muslims by Hindus in the state of Gujarat. Sahukar expressed hope that Hindu militants would not fall into the trap set by jihadis by alienating India's moderate Muslims.

Sahukar regularly visits Israel to participate in conferences held by the Interdisciplinary Center's Institute for Counter-Terrorism in Herzliya.

"If anything, these attacks will bring India even closer to the US, UK, Israel and even Pakistan in its fight against terrorism in general and Islamist terrorism in particular," Sahukar predicted. 

'Gunmen aim to halt India's int'l ties' | International | Jerusalem Post


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## BanglaBhoot

Mumbai attacks spotlight Indias internal problems

* Tariq Ali says terrorists can be radicalised young Indian Muslims fed up of Indian political system

By Khalid Hasan

WASHINGTON: The aim of the Mumbai attacks was to create mayhem by shining the spotlight on India and its problems, and in that the terrorists were successful, writes Tariq Ali in a commentary.

According to Ali, the identity of the black-hooded group remains a mystery, as the Deccan Mujahedeen, which claimed the outrage, is a new name probably chosen for this single act. But speculation is rife. A senior Indian naval officer has claimed that the attackers, who arrived in a ship, the MV Alpha, were linked to Somali pirates, implying that this was a revenge attack for the Indian Navys successful if bloody action against pirates in the Arabian Gulf that led to heavy casualties some weeks ago. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has insisted that the terrorists were based outside the country. The Indian media has echoed this line of argument with Pakistan - via the Lashkar-e-Taiba - and Al Qaeda listed as the usual suspects.

Homegrown: Ali calls the allegation a meditated edifice of official Indias political imagination, the function being to deny that the terrorists could be a homegrown variety, a product of the radicalisation of young Indian Muslims who have finally given up on the indigenous political system.

To accept this view would imply that Indias political physicians need to heal themselves. Al Qaeda, as the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) recently made clear, is a group on the decline and has never come close to repeating anything vaguely resembling the hits of 9/11. Osama Bin Laden may well be dead and his deputy has fallen back on threats and bravado.

As for Pakistan, Ali believes that its military is heavily involved in actions on its Northwest frontier where the spillage from the Afghan war has destabilised the region. The politicians currently in power are making repeated overtures to India. The Lashkar-e-Taiba has strongly denied any involvement with the Mumbai attacks. He writes, Why should it be such a surprise if the perpetrators are themselves Indian Muslims? It is hardly a secret that there has been much anger within the poorest sections of the Muslim community against the systematic discrimination and acts of violence carried out against them of which the 2002 anti-Muslim pogrom in shining Gujarat was only the most blatant and the most investigated episode, supported by the chief minister of the state and the local state apparatuses.

Ali points out, Add to this the continuing sore of Kashmir which has for decades been treated as a colony by Indian troops with random arrests, torture and rape of Kashmiris an everyday occurrence. Conditions have been much worse than in Tibet, but have aroused little sympathy in the West where the defence of human rights is heavily instrumentalised. Indian intelligence outfits are well aware of all this and they should not encourage the fantasies of their political leaders. It is best to come out and accept that there are severe problems inside the country.  None of this justifies terrorism, but it should, at the very least, force Indias rulers to direct their gaze on their own country and the conditions that prevail. Economic disparities are profound. The absurd notion that the trickle-down effects of global capitalism would solve most problems can now be seen for what it always was: a fig leaf to conceal new modes of exploitation.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

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## BanglaBhoot

India's Leaders Need to Look Closer to Home

The Assault on Mumbai

By TARIQ ALI

The terrorist assault on Mumbais five-star hotels was well planned, but did not require a great deal of logistic intelligence: all the targets were soft. The aim was to create mayhem by shining the spotlight on India and its problems and in that the terrorists were successful. The identity of the black-hooded group remains a mystery.

The Deccan Mujahedeen, which claimed the outrage in an e-mail press release, is certainly a new name probably chosen for this single act. But speculation is rife. A senior Indian naval officer has claimed that the attackers (who arrived in a ship, the M V Alpha) were linked to Somali pirates, implying that this was a revenge attack for the Indian Navys successful if bloody action against pirates in the Arabian Gulf that led to heavy casualties some weeks ago.

The Indian Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh, has insisted that the terrorists were based outside the country. The Indian media has echoed this line of argument with Pakistan (via the Lashkar-e-Taiba) and al-Qaeda listed as the usual suspects.

But this is a meditated edifice of official Indias political imagination. Its function is to deny that the terrorists could be a homegrown variety, a product of the radicalization of young Indian Muslims who have finally given up on the indigenous political system. To accept this view would imply that the countrys political physicians need to heal themselves.

Al Qaeda, as the CIA recently made clear, is a group on the decline. It has never come close to repeating anything vaguely resembling the hits of 9/11.

Its principal leader Osama bin Laden may well be dead (he certainly did not make his trademark video intervention in this years Presidential election in the United States) and his deputy has fallen back on threats and bravado.

What of Pakistan? The countrys military is heavily involved in actions on its Northwest frontier where the spillage from the Afghan war has destabilized the region. The politicians currently in power are making repeated overtures to India. The Lashkar-e-Taiba, not usually shy of claiming its hits, has strongly denied any involvement with the Mumbai attacks.

Why should it be such a surprise if the perpetrators are themselves Indian Muslims? Its hardly a secret that there has been much anger within the poorest sections of the Muslim community against the systematic discrimination and acts of violence carried out against them of which the 2002 anti-Muslim pogrom in shining Gujarat was only the most blatant and the most investigated episode, supported by the Chief Minister of the State and the local state apparatuses.

Add to this the continuing sore of Kashmir which has for decades been treated as a colony by Indian troops with random arrests, torture and rape of Kashmiris an everyday occurrence. Conditions have been much worse than in Tibet, but have aroused little sympathy in the West where the defense of human rights is heavily instrumentalised.

Indian intelligence outfits are well aware of all this and they should not encourage the fantasies of their political leaders. Its best to come out and accept that there are severe problems inside the country. A billion Indians: 80 percent Hindus and 14 percent Muslims. A very large minority that cannot be ethnically cleansed without provoking a wider conflict.

None of this justifies terrorism, but it should, at the very least, force Indias rulers to direct their gaze on their own country and the conditions that prevail. Economic disparities are profound. The absurd notion that the trickle-down effects of global capitalism would solve most problems can now be seen for what it always was: a fig leaf to conceal new modes of exploitation.

Tariq Ali: The Assault on Mumbai

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## Flintlock

smeaglegolum said:


> Another 'terrorist speaks' video
> 
> Rediff iShare: Terrorists speaks



That's a Panju accent if I ever heard one.


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## Kumar

was said:


> indian army chief has sayed that the pakistani guy is from FARIDKOT. now there isn,t any faridkot in pakistan.infact it is in india you can serach iit on googlearth



Please check the below link 

Faridkot Map | Pakistan Google Satellite Maps

Faridkot Map  Satellite Images of Faridkot
original name: Far&#299;dkot
geographical location: Multan, Punjab, Pakistan, Asia
geographical coordinates: 30° 16' 30" North, 71° 57' 30" East


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## Flintlock

Update:

Terrorist/hostage seen waving a white handkerchief out of a window at Nariman House.


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## nitesh

Choppers are used now in nariman house


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## UnKnOwN

You gotta love the attention India is getting. (Even Bush calls them!) And what does India do with this attention? They blame Pakistan lol

Indian forces arrest militants, including Pakistani | Herald Sun
FT.com / Asia-Pacific / India - India points finger at Pakistan
India's Singh blames neighbors as battle rages 
Indian PM blames 'external forces'
SNAP ANALYSIS-Suspicion falls on India's neighbours over attacks - Yahoo! News UK
ANALYSIS: BLAME PAKISTAN

As always, go India


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## Flintlock

^We are not blaming Pakistan. We know that the Pakistani establishment understands the situation and is trying their best to help us.

Unfortunately, it seems that atleast some of the terrorists are from Pakistan. This is simply an indication that militant groups are still very much active in that country and they are able to both procure advanced weapons and plan sophisticated attacks.


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## nitesh

The Hindu : Front Page : Vulnerability of coastline in focus

Vulnerability of coastline in focus

Vinay Kumar & Sandeep Dikshit

NEW DELHI: Even as elite commando units from the Navy and the National Security Guard mounted operations to flush out terrorists from the Taj and Trident-Oberoi hotels on Thursday, security and intelligence agencies stressed on the vulnerability of India&#8217;s 7,516-km coastline along nine States and four Union Territories.

Though the &#8220;Coastal Security Scheme&#8221; was launched in March 2006 by the Union Home Ministry, the breach of coastline in Mumbai on Wednesday by terrorists showed they could enter through the gaps.

As Mumbai&#8217;s nightmarish terror attacks began and the security and intelligence agencies apprehended its gravity, arrangements were made to fly the first lot of commandos in an IL-76 military transport aircraft, owned by the Aviation Research Centre of the Research and Analysis Wing, at 3 a.m. With two large troop transport aircraft of the Indian Air Force arriving from Chandigarh at dawn, the remaining contingents of the NSG and the Army were flown to Mumbai on Thursday morning.

The IAF now has seven aircraft on standby at the Delhi airport, including four medium sized AN-32 troop transport aircraft. It has also placed three helicopters at the disposal of the authorities in Mumbai following a request by the State government. A mine detection unit has reached Mumbai from Pune. The armed forces now have 800 Army personnel and five &#8216;Prahar&#8217; units of the Marine Commandos (Marcos) on assault deployment along with the NSG around three buildings where terrorists are still believed to be holed up.

Along the coast from Mumbai to Gujarat, ships were being intercepted and checked by the Navy and the Coast Guard. &#8220;So far all the ships we checked were clean,&#8221; naval sources said. Two Marcos were injured but both were stated to be out of danger.

Briefing journalists on Thursday, Special Secretary (Internal Security) M.L. Kumawat said terrorists landed in the Sasoon dock in Mumbai. Efforts were being made to &#8220;backtrack&#8221; and trace their route. Admitting that the name of &#8220;Deccan Mujahideen,&#8221; said to be behind the worst ever terror attack in the country, was being taken for the first time, he said the exact number of terrorists who sneaked into Mumbai was being ascertained.

Sources in the Home Ministry said the Coastal Security Scheme was being given top priority for setting up 73 coastal police stations, 97 check posts, 58 outposts and 30 barracks. About 50 of the 73 approved coastal police stations had already been made operational, the sources said.

Under the scheme, the coastal police stations were to be equipped with 204 boats, 149 jeeps, 312 motorcycles for increasing mobility of the police personnel on the coasts and in close coastal waters.

The scheme has been reviewed by the Home Ministry from time to time. As part of the scheme, 10 police stations in Gujarat and 12 in Maharashtra were to be set up. The Coast Guard has also been imparting training to different State police personnel in mounting maritime vigil.

Sources said that steps had been taken in the recent past to strengthen joint coastal patrolling off the coasts of Gujarat and Maharashtra as security concerns, voiced by the intelligence agencies, pointed to the gaps in the country&#8217;s long coast line.


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## nitesh



Reactions: Like Like:
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## ejaz007

Whats surprising is that prior to an incident Indian security and intelligence agencies are caught napping. However as soon as an incident happens they some how have every information available with them. What are the terrorists name, from where they came, how they came, what were their motives and targets.

Even Indian media knows a lot after the incident. Perhaps RAW and media plan these things jointly. I remember seeing a terrorists talking to a media person on phone and when he was asked what are their demands he asked some one else in the room about the demands. Before the other terrorist could answer the media person called his name. Fishy isn't it?

It would be better if you stop the blame game and take a hard look the way your intelligence agencies work and for a change conduct deep and thorough investigation.

The one man who caught the real culprits is dead.


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## nitesh

ha ha ha nice theory something like neo's DOMESTIC OPPRESSION theory. keep them coming buddy


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## Kumar

ejaz007 said:


> Whats surprising is that prior to an incident Indian security and intelligence agencies are caught napping. However as soon as an incident happens they some how have every information available with them. What are the terrorists name, from where they came, how they came, what were their motives and targets.
> 
> Even Indian media knows a lot after the incident. Perhaps RAW and media plan these things jointly. I remember seeing a terrorists talking to a media person on phone and when he was asked what are their demands he asked some one else in the room about the demands. Before the other terrorist could answer the media person called his name. Fishy isn't it?
> 
> It would be better if you stop the blame game and take a hard look the way your intelligence agencies work and for a change conduct deep and thorough investigation.
> 
> The one man who caught the real culprits is dead.



Looks like ABU ISAMIL from FARIDAKOT Pakistan is speaking a lot. 
He is co-operating well with RAW and IB. 
Now one more is also in custody.


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## nitesh

Check the action:

Watch: Chopper airdrops commandos at Nariman House-News-The Times of India


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## ejaz007

Kumar said:


> Looks like ABU ISAMIL from FARIDAKOT Pakistan is speaking a lot.
> He is co-operating well with RAW and IB.
> Now one more is also in custody.



Then you must be our local agent who arranged the boat for us. RAW is a useless organization. We only appoint efficient organizations as local operators.


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## ejaz007

*US spies killed in terrorist raid *

NEW DELHI: Even though the Indian government has refrained from dragging Islamabad directly into the Mumbai terror attacks, insinuations suggest that diplomatic relations between the two countries may suffer in the aftermath of the attacks. It is believed that the terrorists identified and then killed two senior US intelligence officers staying at the Taj Mahal Hotel. Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, in his address to the nation, pricked Pakistan thrice without naming it. *The security agencies in New Delhi told reporters they suspected the role of Al Qaeda in the attacks.* The agencies believed their suspicion arose from the way the terrorists captured Taj hotel and successfully identified two senior US intelligence officials by checking the passports of the foreigners who were staying there, sources said. iftikhar gilani


Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## Kumar

ejaz007 said:


> Then you must be our local agent who arranged the boat for us. RAW is a useless organization. We only appoint efficient organizations as local operators.



Think who created Bangladesh !!!!

Even if we prove that these terrorist are from pakistan i am sure that there wont be any action like what happen to Dawood he is still roaming in pakistan with blessings. what happen to all the three terrorist leaders released during the IA hijacked case ?


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## ejaz007

*Sophisticated attacks, but Al Qaeda link disputed *

* Indian security official suggests links to Indian Mujahideen

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: They came wearing black hoods, firing automatic weapons and throwing grenades. They took hostages and attacked two hotels, a movie theatre, a café, a train station and other popular and undefended soft targets.

Who are they? The answer to that question remained disputed, as security officials and experts attempted to untangle the few clues to the attackers likely identity, a New York Times report said on Thursday.

An email message to Indian media outlets that claimed responsibility for the bloody attacks in Mumbai on Wednesday night said the terrorists were from the Deccan Mujahideen.

Almost universally, experts and intelligence officials said that name was unknown.

Deccan is a neighbourhood of the Indian city of Hyderabad. The word also describes the middle and south of India, which is dominated by the Deccan Plateau.

Mujahideen is the commonly used Arabic word for fighters. But the combination of the two, said Sajjan Gohel, a security analyst in London, is a front name. This group is nonexistent.

Some global terrorism experts with experience in South Asia said that based on the tactics used in the attacks, the group was probably not linked to Al Qaeda, although other experts challenged that assertion. 

Its even unclear whether its a real group or not, said Bruce Hoffman, a professor at the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University and the author of the book Inside Terrorism. It could be a cover name for another group, or a name adopted just for this particular incident, he said.

Indian Mujahideen: An Indian security official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the name suggested a link to a group called Indian Mujahideen, which was implicated in a string of bomb attacks that killed around 200 people this year alone.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## nitesh

Guys anyone has the video of people chanting "Vande Mataram" when the Marcos were getting in Taj. Seen it on TV yesterday. Please share it


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## Flintlock

nitesh said:


> Guys anyone has the video of people chanting "Vande Mataram" when the Marcos were getting in Taj. Seen it on TV yesterday. Please share it



Yes, I saw that. 

The cremation of ceremony of the Police Officers was also very rousing. 

People were shouting "Bharat Mata ki Jai" and "Jai Hind" throughout.


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## ejaz007

Kumar said:


> Think who created Bangladesh !!!!
> 
> Even if we prove that these terrorist are from pakistan i am sure that there wont be any action like what happen to Dawood he is still roaming in pakistan with blessings. what happen to all the three terrorist leaders released during the IA hijacked case ?



Don't drag the thread out of context just for hiding your own failures.

Terrorist come to your city, carry out their activity and your intelligence agencies are sleeping. However when they finally wake up they know every thing. Perhaps terrorists had sent a copy of their operations report to them as well for record keeping.


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## nitesh

ejaz007 said:


> Don't drag the thread out of context just for hiding your own failures.
> 
> Terrorist come to your city, carry out their activity and your intelligence agencies are sleeping. However when they finally wake up they know every thing. Perhaps terrorists had sent a copy of their operations report to them as well for record keeping.



The same happened in mariott right. What is going on in NWFP we all know. What your "efficient" agencies where doing then?


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## nitesh

Flintlock said:


> Yes, I saw that.
> 
> The cremation of ceremony of the Police Officers was also very rousing.
> 
> People were shouting "Bharat Mata ki Jai" and "Jai Hind" throughout.



Need to seriously salute the spirit of mumbaikars. I have spoken with my relatives/friends there. They were not scared. But were sure that they will bounce back

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## Kumar

ejaz007 said:


> Don't drag the thread out of context just for hiding your own failures.
> 
> Terrorist come to your city, carry out their activity and your intelligence agencies are sleeping. However when they finally wake up they know every thing. Perhaps terrorists had sent a copy of their operations report to them as well for record keeping.



U said Raw is usless organization. Thats why i have to mention that .

So what happen during your Marriott Bombings or BB ? Is it your ISI's failure ?

Intelligence agency's are not god just to predict everything. They also depend on so many things. Its not good just blame them. 

Its good if they find it before if not they have to stop it in the future not to happen again.


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## haviZsultan

First of all I send my condolences to all those families who have suffered because of this cowardly terrorist strike. This is a cowardly strike that can only be blamed on damn animals. This is anti islamic activity and anyone who tries to justify this act is an idiot. 

My uncle was going f4m lucknow to Mumbai f4m train f4 a business trip. Hes ok likin everyone was afraid and stuff...

Anyway this is looking like either the result of frustration amongst the Indian muslims at the bias and discrimination they go through every single day in India and I hope the Indian government deals with their grievances and gives them their rights so that such attacks by local Indian groups like the Indian mujahideen and Deccan mujahideen can be avoided in the future. Otherwise it is just some hindu fanatical organization that knows in the end blame will fall on Pakistan and they organized this attack to ensure peace between our nations does not prevail and our relationship is riddled with distrust...

India and Pakistan have the same threats from the same terroristic bastards and fanatics. Only thing is India also needs to deal with fanatical terrorist hindu organizations as well for example the Shiv Sena and Bajrang dal. I have lost close people to their idiocy to say the least. Shiv Sena specially is just mad. They dont want ANY muslims in India.

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## BanglaBhoot

*Indias Suspicion of Pakistan Clouds U.S. Strategy in Region* 

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan  The terrorist attacks in Mumbai occurred as India and Pakistan, two big, hostile and nuclear-armed nations, were delicately moving toward improved relations with the encouragement of the United States and in particular the incoming Obama administration.

Those steps could quickly be derailed, with deep consequences for the United States, if India finds Pakistani fingerprints on the well-planned operation. India has raised suspicions. Pakistan has vehemently denied them.

But no matter who turns out to be responsible for the Mumbai attacks, their scale and the choice of international targets will make the agenda of the new American administration harder.

Reconciliation between India and Pakistan has emerged as a basic tenet in the approaches to foreign policy of President-elect Barack Obama, and the new leader of Central Command, Gen. David H. Petraeus. The point is to persuade Pakistan to focus less of its military effort on India, and more on the militants in its lawless tribal regions who are ripping at the soul of Pakistan.

A strategic pivot by Pakistans military away from a focus on India to an all-out effort against the Taliban and their associates in Al Qaeda, the thinking goes, would serve to weaken the militants who are fiercely battling American and NATO forces in Afghanistan.

But attacks as devastating as those that unfolded in Mumbai  whether ultimately traced to homegrown Indian militants or to others from abroad, or a combination  seem likely to sour relations, fuel distrust and hamper, at least for now, Americas ambitions for reconciliation in the region.

The early signs were that India, where state elections are scheduled next week, would take a tough stand and blame its neighbor. In his statement to the nation, the Indian prime minister, Manmohan Singh, who in the past has been relatively moderate in his approach to Pakistan, sounded a harsh tone.

He said the attacks probably had external linkages, and were carried out by a group based outside the country. There would be a cost to our neighbors, he said, if their territory was found to have been used as a launching pad.

The prime minister did not name Pakistan. But everyone  certainly on Pakistani television news programs Thursday night  knew that is what he meant, and that the long history of Pakistani-Indian finger-pointing had returned.

The Hindustan Times, an influential Indian newspaper, reported Thursday that Indias security agencies believed that the multiple attacks in Mumbai were by an Islamic militant group, Lashkar-e-Taiba, operating out of Pakistan.

According to the newspaper, the special secretary at the Home Affairs Ministry, M. L. Kumawat, said that Lashkar-e-Taiba was a distinct possibility. The newspaper stopped short of saying that Pakistans premier intelligence agency, Inter-Services Intelligence, had helped Lashkar-e-Taiba plan and execute the Mumbai operation, a role that the Indian government has ascribed to the Pakistani intelligence agency in past terrorist attacks.

But if India discovers that the intelligence agency is connected to the Mumbai attacks  even rogue elements of the agency  the slightly warmer relationship that has been fostered between the neighbors would no doubt return to a deep freeze. And that may have partly been the motivation of whoever carried out the attacks.

If the Indians believe this was Lashkar-e-Taiba and Al Qaeda, as they are suggesting, we could see a crisis like 2002 with enormous pressure to do something, an American official said on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the matter. The key will be if the Indians see an ISI hand.

After a dozen people died in an assault on the Indian Parliament in New Delhi in December 2001, India blamed a jihadist group, Jaish-e-Muhammad, and said Inter-Services Intelligence had backed the operation. For the next year the neighbors remained on the brink of war with forces massed along their 1,800-mile border.

According to a new book, The Search for Al Qaeda, by Bruce Riedel, an adviser on South Asia to Mr. Obama, Osama bin Laden worked with the Pakistani intelligence agency in the late 1980s to create Lashkar-e-Taiba as a jihadist group intended to challenge Indian rule in Kashmir.

But the new president of Pakistan, Asif Ali Zardari, appears to be acting according to Americas playbook for better relations with India.

A businessman at heart, Mr. Zardari understands the benefit of strong trade between India and Pakistan. Now on life support from the International Monetary Fund, Pakistan would profit immensely from the normalization of relations.

Mr. Zardari has called for visa-free travel, a huge step from a situation in which there are not even scheduled flights between the nations capitals. Speaking to an Indian audience over a video link from Islamabad last weekend, Mr. Zardari proposed a no first nuclear strike policy with India. The idea came as a shock to the Pakistani Army, which has always refused to commit to a policy of no first use of nuclear weapons.

Going further, Mr. Zardari said South Asia should be a nuclear-weapon-free zone, which could be achieved by a nonnuclear treaty.

I can get around my Parliament to this view, but can you get around the Indian Parliament to this view? he asked. 

Pakistani officials said the presidents sentiments did not reflect the policies of the powerful Pakistani security establishment, whose existence has been predicated since partition of the subcontinent 61 years ago on viewing India as the enemy.

It will take more than off-the-cuff remarks intended to please a dinner audience to change these longstanding policies, Pakistani newspaper editorials said.

He wants improved relations with India, said Sajjan M.Gohel, director for international security of the Asia-Pacific Foundation in London. But Zardari needs the full support of the Pakistani security apparatus, and he doesnt have it.

Some of the moves toward improving the atmosphere between India and Pakistan were under way on the night of the Mumbai attacks. The Pakistani foreign minister, Shah Mahmood Qureshi, on a four-day trip to India, had just finished discussions with the Indian foreign minister, Pranab Mukherjee, on terrorism, trade and the loosening of visa restrictions when the terrorists struck.

Visibly moved by the attacks, Mr. Qureshi appeared on Indian television on Thursday, calling the attacks barbaric. He urged both sides not to resort to knee-jerk reactions and to drop the usual blame game. Across the board, senior Pakistani officials condemned the attacks.

But there was also immediate anxiety among Pakistanis about the Indian prime ministers unequivocal tone. It is unfair to blame Pakistan or Pakistanis for these acts of terrorism even before an investigation is undertaken, said the Pakistani ambassador to the United States, Husain Haqqani. Instead of scoring political points at the expense of a neighboring country that is itself a victim of terrorism, it is time for Indias leaders to work together with Pakistans elected leaders in putting up a joint front against terrorism.

Unless care is exercised, one of the apparent goals of the Mumbai attack will be achieved, said Moonis Ahmar, a lecturer in international relations at Karachi University. And the new American agenda of reconciliation between India and Pakistan will be sacrificed. Its a well-thought-out conspiracy to destabilize relations between the two countries, Mr. Ahmar said.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/28/world/asia/28diplo.html?hp


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## nitesh

Flintlock said:


> Yes, I saw that.
> 
> The cremation of ceremony of the Police Officers was also very rousing.
> 
> People were shouting "Bharat Mata ki Jai" and "Jai Hind" throughout.



Flint you are also a mumbaikar right?


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## Vinod2070

Guys, terrorism is a common scourge for both our nations.

Appeal to the more reasonable members to not make it a slanging match. It is not India Vs. Pak. It should be India and Pak Vs. these cowards.

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## haviZsultan

Now second of all I would like to bring attention to this article in dawn news:



> *Who could be behind the Mumbai attacks and why? *
> 
> MUMBAI: Militants armed with automatic weapons and grenades attacked luxury hotels, hospitals and a famous tourist cafe in India's commercial capital Mumbai late on Wednesday, killing at least 101 people.
> * WHO IS BEHIND THE ATTACKS?
> The attacks were claimed by a previously unknown group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen in an e-mail to news organizations. Deccan is an area of southern India.
> But it is not clear if the claim is genuine, and analysts say the bombings are almost certainly the work of a different group.
> The most likely perpetrators, they say, are either the Indian Mujahideen or Lashkar-e-Taiba.
> 
> * WHO ARE LASHKAR-E-TAIBA?
> Lashkar-e-Taiba is one of the largest Islamic militant groups in South Asia, based in Pakistan and fighting Indian rule in Kashmir. Security analysts say it is a well-funded and highly organized group that sympathizes with al Qaeda.
> Lashkar-e-Taiba denied being behind the Mumbai attacks and said it condemned them.
> The group was blamed for bomb attacks on markets in New Delhi that killed more than 60 people in 2005, as well as an assault on India's parliament in 2001 that brought India and Pakistan to the brink of a fourth war.
> 
> * WHO ARE THE INDIAN MUJAHIDEEN?
> Indian police say the Indian Mujahideen is an offshoot of the banned Students' Islamic Movement of India (SIMI), but that local Muslims appear to have been given training and backing from militant groups in neighboring Pakistan and Bangladesh.
> SIMI has been blamed by police for almost every major bomb attack in India, including explosions on commuter trains in Mumbai two years ago that killed 187 people.
> Police said the Indian Mujahideen may also include former members of Bangladeshi militant group Harkat-ul-Jihad al Islami.
> The group first emerged during a wave of bombings in the northern state of Uttar Pradesh in November 2007, sending an e-mail to media outlets just before some of the bombs exploded.
> They have since claimed responsibility for multiple bomb attacks in Jaipur, Bangalore, Ahmedabad and New Delhi.
> 
> * WHO DOES INDIA BLAME?
> Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said the attacks were probably plotted by a group based in a neighboring country.
> But Indian governments often blame neighboring Pakistan or sometimes Bangladesh for supporting or harboring militant groups which have launched attacks on Indian soil.
> 
> * WHAT CAN BE INFERRED FROM THE ATTACKERS' TACTICS?
> The Mumbai attacks were unusual in that they involved coordinated attacks by gunmen on multiple targets, hostages were taken, and foreigners were specifically targeted.
> Several analysts say these tactics point to Lashkar-e-Taiba as being involved. The attacks on symbolic targets designed to gather maximum publicity, and the specific targeting, point to a group following al Qaeda ideology and tactics.
> The attacks also show a considerable degree of sophistication, another factor pointing to an experienced group like Lashkar-e-Taiba.
> The Indonesian Mujahideen have also surprised police with the sophistication of their attacks, however, although until now these have always been bomb attacks on Indian targets.
> 
> In May, the Indian Mujahideen made a specific threat to attack tourist sites in India unless the government stopped supporting the United States in the international arena.
> The threat was made in an e-mail claiming responsibility for bomb attacks that killed 63 people in the tourist city of Jaipur. The mail declared open war against India and included the serial number of a bicycle used in one of the bombings.
> 
> * WHAT CAN BE INFERRED FROM THEIR DEMANDS?
> A man speaking Urdu with a Kashmiri accent phoned an Indian TV station, offering talks with the government and accusing the Indian army of killing Muslims in Kashmir. This suggests the attackers are involved with a Kashmiri group like Lashkar-e-Taiba.
> The demands of the Indian Mujahideen  like their targets  have always tended to be much more domestic. The group issued an e-mail threat in September to attack Mumbai but directed its anger at the Mumbai police anti-terrorist squad, accusing them of harassing Muslims.
> 
> If this is the degree your arrogance has reached, and if you think that by these stunts you can scare us, then let the Indian Mujahideen warn all the people of Mumbai that whatever deadly attacks Mumbaikars will face in future, their responsibility would lie with the Mumbai ATS and their guardians, it said.



What the hell is this? The coverage by dawn news of the particular event is especially stupid. They are either retarded or completely mad. This attack was clearly launched by locals. Did'nt u see the big mumbai kid with an AK47 caught on tape?

Our own news is biased. Their coverage has been so negative of Pakistan and it seems they are particularly trying to find a link between Pakistan and the terror attack.

Also this is another article by idiots @t dawn news:


> *Commandos battle to regain Mumbai: Blame game begins, allegations levelled against Pakistan; death toll put at 119 with over 300 injured*
> 
> By Anand Kumar
> 
> 
> MUMBAI, Nov 27: As commandos of Indias elite anti-terrorism force, the National Security Guard (NSG), were engaged in fierce battles with terrorists at some places till late Thursday night, officials claimed that terrorists had been flushed out from the five-star Taj Hotel, one of the landmarks of the countrys financial and commercial capital.
> 
> The commandos who went into action immediately after the city was attacked on Wednesday night, were engaged in clashes with the terrorists holed up in the Taj, another five-star hotel, Oberoi-Trident, and a synagogue-cum-Jewish education centre, all located in south Mumbai.
> 
> The terrorists, whose identity is still not known, although one of them told a TV channel that they belonged to the so far unknown Deccan Mujahideen, launched the audacious attack, firing indiscriminately from their AK-47 rifles at about half a dozen places.
> 
> The toll was put at 119 at Thursday midnight with about 300 people having been injured. The dead included about 15 policemen, including two top officers, 10 foreigners and seven terrorists.
> 
> Maharashtra Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh said that about 25 terrorists were suspected to be involved in the attack on the mage-city, which was virtually crippled on Thursday with government and private offices, banks, schools, colleges and other establishments remaining closed. Stock markets also remained shut.
> 
> NSG commandos began hunting the terrorists who had occupied the Taj Mahal Hotel and Oberoi-Trident Hotel in south Mumbai, besides Nariman Bhavan, which houses a Jewish study centre and also serves as a synagogue. About seven militants had occupied the five-storeyed residential building on Wednesday, holding an Israeli rabbi, his wife and child as hostage. The local head office of the orthodox Jewish group, Chabad-Lubavitch, is popular among Israeli tourists visiting India, and many of them stay there for a few weeks.
> 
> When the commandos planned to launch an attack on the building, one of the terrorists panicked and tried to escape to an adjoining building. But he fell, got injured and later died. However, the remaining six terrorists continued firing at the commandos, delaying their entry into the building.
> 
> The commandos were successful at the Taj Mahal Hotel, where all the hostages were rescued and most of the guests were evacuated.
> 
> According to A.N. Roy, Maharashtras police chief, there were no more hostages at the Taj Mahal Hotel, though about two or three terrorists were still there in one of the rooms.
> 
> But at the Oberoi-Trident Hotel, there were about 40 hostages being held by nearly a dozen terrorists. Another 200 guests were also stranded in the high-rise hotel, adding to the problems of the NSG commandos.
> 
> According to an Indian Navy spokesman, about two dozen terrorists had landed in Mumbai after travelling in a merchant vessel, the MV Alpha, from Karachi. The Indian Navy intercepted the vessel on Thursday. The Navy spokesman said that further probe was under way.
> 
> Police sources say the terrorists landed in rubber boats near the Gateway of India and headed straight for the half a dozen destinations, armed heavily with weapons and explosives. They even commandeered two police vehicles, firing indiscriminately on the way.
> 
> Agencies add: Indian security forces arrested three militants, including a Pakistani national, inside the Taj Mahal hotel, the Press Trust of India news agency reported early Friday.Quoting official sources, the agency report identified the Pakistani national as Ajmal Amir Kamal, a resident of Faridkot, Multan. It also said the militants were members of Lashkar-i-Taiba -- a Pakistan-based group best known for an assault on the Indian parliament in 2001.
> 
> The report said the Pakistani detainee told Indian investigators that the group of 12 militants had been dropped off by a merchant vessel 10 nautical miles outside Indian waters, and had reached Mumbai in a small speedboat.
> 
> Helicopters buzzed overhead and crowds cheered as the commandos, their faces blackened, moved into the Trident-Oberoi, where 20 to 30 people were thought to have been taken hostage and more than 100 others were trapped in their rooms. Huge flames billowed from an upper floor.
> 
> Dipak Dutta told NDTV news after being rescued that he had been told by troops escorting him through the corridors not to look down at any of the bodies. A lot of chef trainees were massacred in the kitchen.
> 
> Security officials said that seven hostages had been rescued from the Jewish complex. But an Israeli diplomat said that those freed had come from other buildings and that there remained an uncertain number of people still trapped in the Jewish centre.
> 
> Weve recovered seven hostages from the complex. Sweeping operations are ongoing, a security told reporters outside the complex.
> 
> A militant holed up at the complex phoned an Indian television channel to offer talks with the government for the release of hostages, but also to complain about abuses in Kashmir.
> 
> Ask the government to talk to us and we will release the hostages, the man, identified by the TV channel as Imran, said.
> 
> Are you aware how many people have been killed in Kashmir? Are you aware how your army has killed Muslims? Are you aware how many of them have been killed in Kashmir this week?
> 
> Australian actress Brooke Satchwell, who starred in the Neighbours television soap opera, said she narrowly escaped the gunmen by hiding in a hotel bathroom cupboard.
> 
> There were people getting shot in the corridor. There was someone dead outside the bathroom, the shaken actress told Australian television. The next thing I knew I was running down the stairs and there were a couple of dead bodies across the stairs. It was chaos.
> 
> We threw ourselves down under the reception counter, Esperanza Aguirre, head of Madrids regional government, said.
> 
> I took off my shoes and we left being pushed along by the hotel staff, she said.
> 
> I didnt see any terrorists or injured people. I just saw the blood I had to walk through barefoot.



This article is by an Indian and I question what the hell it is doing in a Pakistani news site even though it is blaming us. Why did'nt musharraf teach dawn news a lesson?


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## BanglaBhoot

Still the Indians pointing finger at Pakistan and soon probably Bangladesh - 

*Attributes Suggest Outside Help*

Analysts Cite Scale, Compared With Previous Onslaughts

BERLIN, Nov. 27 -- Counterterrorism officials and experts said the scale, sophistication and targets involved in the Mumbai attacks were markedly different from previous terrorist plots in India and suggested the gunmen had received training from outside the country. But they cautioned it was too soon to tell who may have masterminded the operation, despite an assertion from a previously unknown Islamist radical group. 

Officials in India, Europe and the United States said likely culprits included Islamist networks based in Pakistan that have received support in the past from Pakistan's intelligence agencies.

Analysts said this week's attacks surpassed previous plots carried out by domestic groups in terms of complexity, the number of people involved and their success in achieving their primary goal: namely, to spread fear.

"This is a new, horrific milestone in the global jihad," said Bruce Riedel, a former South Asia analyst for the CIA and National Security Council and author of the book, "The Search for Al Qaeda." "No indigenous Indian group has this level of capability. The goal is to damage the symbol of India's economic renaissance, undermine investor confidence and provoke an India-Pakistani crisis."

Several analysts and officials said the attacks bore the hallmarks of Lashkar-i-Taiba or Jaish-i-Muhammad, two networks of Muslim extremists from Pakistan that have targeted India before. Jaish-i-Muhammad was blamed for an attack on the Indian Parliament in 2001. 

Both groups have carried out a long campaign of violence in the disputed territory of Kashmir, which India and Pakistan have fought over for six decades. The roots of the long-running conflict are religious: A majority of India's population is Hindu, while most Pakistanis are Muslim.

A U.S. counterterrorism official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said Lashkar-i-Taiba, which means "Army of the Pious," and Jaish-i-Muhammad, or "Soldiers of Muhammad," are "the thing people are starting to look at. But I can't caution enough to treat it as a theory, a working assumption. It's still too early for hard and fast" conclusions.

"What the Indians have in their favor," the official added, "is that they've got some of these guys. It seems logical that they can expect to work their way back reasonably quickly." Indian officials said several gunmen were captured.

In its Friday editions, the newspaper the Hindu reported that at least three of the suspects held by police were members of Lashkar-i-Taiba and that the assailants had arrived in Mumbai on a ship from Karachi, Pakistan.

Earlier, Pakistan's government condemned the attacks and warned India against jumping to conclusions about who was responsible. Lashkar-i-Taiba issued a statement denying involvement.

India has been plagued by a wave of terrorist attacks in recent years, many sparked by friction between Hindu nationalists and minority Muslim groups. The shootings in Mumbai were far from the worst to strike India's financial capital; bombings in 1993 and 2006 each killed more than 180 people.

A group calling itself the Deccan Mujaheddin asserted responsibility for the attacks in e-mails sent to Indian media organizations Wednesday. Officials said they had never heard of the group.

Television footage showed that the assailants carrying automatic rifles and backpacks filled with ammunition and grenades. Analysts said the fact that the gunmen quickly fanned across the city and were able to hold off Indian security forces over three days suggested that they had received training at organized camps.

"What is striking about this is a fair amount of planning had to go into this type of attack," said Roger W. Cressey, a former White House counterterrorism official in the Clinton and Bush administrations. "This is not a seat-of-the-pants operation. This group had to receive some training or support from professionals in the terrorism business."

Some experts said the operation bore some resemblances to plots orchestrated by al-Qaeda, in that it involved multiple, simultaneous attacks targeting foreigners. In this case, according to witnesses, the gunmen sought out Americans and Britons, and also took hostages at the local headquarters of an Orthodox Jewish group.

Others said they were dubious of a connection to Osama bin Laden's organization. They said al-Qaeda has relied on suicide bombers, not gunmen, and is not known to have cells in India.

David Miliband, Britain's foreign secretary, told reporters that it was "premature to talk about links to al-Qaeda" and that it was still unclear who the intended targets were. "This is only the latest in a series of attacks in India over the last year or two," he said, adding: "Terrorism is not just a war against the West."

Peter Neumann, a terrorism analyst at King's College in London, noted that dozens of gunmen were involved. "This doesn't mean it's al-Qaeda, or they take orders from bin Laden, but I'm pretty sure it's not some leaderless, grass-roots thing."

On Wednesday, al-Qaeda's propaganda arm released a video on the Internet featuring an interview with Ayman al-Zawahiri, the network's deputy leader. He made no mention of the attacks in Mumbai; it was unclear when the video was produced.

Other experts warned that there is a long list of suspects who could have played a role. For instance, Indian officials have blamed the 1993 bombings in Mumbai, which killed 257 people, on Dawood Ibrahim, an organized crime figure who remains on the run.

"Anything could be in the cards," said Magnus Ranstorp, a terrorism analyst at the Swedish National Defense College. "With most terrorist attacks, it's relatively clear-cut who is involved. In this case, it could be all sorts of constellations that are at work." 

washingtonpost.com


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## ejaz007

Vinod2070 said:


> Guys, terrorism is a common scourge for both our nations.
> 
> Appeal to the more reasonable members to not make it a slanging match. It is not India Vs. Pak. It should be India and Pak Vs. these cowards.



Yes indeed. Agreed on this point. However what ever is being said negates this thinking.

The point I was trying to make is that instead of blaming every thing on us why don't you people share these with us and if nothing is done than you have a reason to blame us.

It seems your intelligence agencies are fine tuned on one line of action and that is not helping your cause at all.


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## nitesh

Mr. Modi is near Oberai. NDTV says he has announce 1 crore compensation for every policemen who got shaheed


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## BanglaBhoot

*Shaken India points finger at 'neighbors'*

Toll tops 125; commandos fight to control Bombay
Ashish Kumar Sen THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Friday, November 28, 2008 

NEW DELHI | Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Thursday blamed militant groups in neighboring countries - almost certainly Pakistan - for plotting a series of terrorist attacks in the country's financial capital of Bombay, as commandos fought to regain control of the city and the death toll exceeded 125.

India's armed services, working in tandem with police, elite commandos and counterterrorism squads, on Friday scoured two luxury hotels and a Jewish center in Bombay for terrorists who were thought to be holding hostages.

Authorities said the death toll from the attacks, which started Wednesday night stood at 125, including at least six foreigners, by Friday morning.

Indian officials said they had killed three gunmen at the Taj Mahal Hotel and were sweeping both it and the Oberoi-Trident hotel early Friday in search of hostages and trapped people. Dozens of hostages have been released from the luxury hotels.

The State Department warned U.S. citizens against traveling to Bombay and other parts of India at this time.

In his televised address to the nation, Mr. Singh said it was "evident that the group which carried out these attacks, based outside the country, had come with single-minded determination to create havoc in the commercial capital of the country."

"We will take up strongly with our neighbors that the use of their territory for launching attacks on us will not be tolerated, and that there would be a cost if suitable measures are not taken by them," he said.

Although Mr. Singh did not mention Pakistan by name, both politicians and analysts said that when government officials use the word "neighbors," it is typically an allusion to Pakistan.

"Since the prime minister has publicly accused Pakistan, I think there is reason to believe that there must be a kernel of truth to it," said Sumit Ganguly, a political science professor at Indiana University at Bloomington.

An Italian, a German, a Japanese and a Briton were among those confirmed dead. Foreigners among the 327 wounded included seven Britons, three Americans and two Australians. According to media reports and survivors, the terrorists specifically asked for guests with American and British passports. 

Washington Times - Shaken India points finger at 'neighbors'


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## ejaz007

A link to one of the rescue mission:

BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Commandos enter Mumbai building


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## Flintlock

nitesh said:


> Flint you are also a mumbaikar right?



I grew up their partially, yes. So I'm a Mumbaikar at heart 

Its also my native place.

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## BanglaBhoot

nitesh said:


> Mr. Modi is near Oberai. NDTV says he has announce 1 crore compensation for every policemen who got shaheed



Hindus use the word Shaheed?


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## ejaz007

*Is India facing threat of home-grown militancy?*

MUMBAI, Nov 27: Militants armed with automatic weapons and grenades attacked luxury hotels, hospitals and a famous tourist cafe in Mumbai late on Wednesday, killing at least 125 people.

Following are the questions  and possible answers  about the suspected attackers.

The attacks were claimed by a previously unknown group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen in an email to news organisations.

Deccan Mujahideens claim has added to the growing belief that India is confronting a home-grown militancy.

But it is not clear if the claim is genuine, and analysts say the bombings are almost certainly the work of a different group.

The most likely perpetrators, they say, are either the Indian Mujahideen or Lashkar-i-Taiba (LT).

Lashkar-i-Taiba is one of the largest Muslim militant groups in South Asia. But, LT has denied being behind the Mumbai attacks and said it condemned them.

The group was blamed for bomb attacks on markets in New Delhi that killed more than 60 people in 2005, as well as an assault on parliament in 2001 that brought India and Pakistan to the brink of a fourth war.

Indian Mujahideen

Indian police say the Indian Mujahideen is an offshoot of the banned Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI).

The group has been blamed by police for almost every major bomb attack in India, including explosions on commuter trains in Mumbai two years ago that killed 187 people.

In May, the Indian Mujahideen made a specific threat to attack tourist sites in India unless the government stopped supporting the United States in the international arena.

The threat was made in an email claiming responsibility for bomb attacks that killed 63 people in the tourist city of Jaipur. The mail declared open war against India and included the serial number of a bicycle used in one of the bombings.

Police authorities said the Indian Mujahideen may also include former members of Bangladeshi militant group Harkat-ul-Jihad al Islami.

The group first emerged during a wave of bombings in the northern state of Uttar Pradesh in November 2007, sending an email to media outlets just before some of the bombs exploded.

They have since claimed responsibility for multiple bomb attacks in Bangalore, Ahmedabad and New Delhi.

The Indian Mujahideen has warned Indias largest-circulated daily The Times of India and other media groups to halt their propaganda war against Muslims.

And the group has told Mukesh Ambani, Indias richest businessman, to think twice about his construction of a glass-and-steel 27-storey residence on land in Mumbai where a Muslim orphanage once stood.Agencies

Is India facing threat of home-grown militancy? -DAWN - Top Stories; November 28, 2008


----------



## nitesh

MBI Munshi said:


> Hindus use the word Shaheed?



Nope we as Indians use the word shaheed

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## matti

nitesh said:


> The same happened in mariott right. What is going on in NWFP we all know. What your "efficient" agencies where doing then?



 WTF. you are not getting the point he is trying to make are you?


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## matti

Modi is bullshiting again.


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## haviZsultan

Vinod2070 said:


> Guys, terrorism is a common scourge for both our nations.
> 
> Appeal to the more reasonable members to not make it a slanging match. It is not India Vs. Pak. It should be India and Pak Vs. these cowards.



I agree.


----------



## nitesh

matti said:


> WTF. you are not getting the point he is trying to make are you?



Nope I got it. Let's leave it here only.


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## BanglaBhoot

nitesh said:


> Nope we as Indians use the word shaheed



So Indians can also use the words Gazi and Jihad? I am now seriously confused.


----------



## haviZsultan

But **** dawn news. 
We Pakistanis we should close them down for posting stupid articles. They are also saying Pakistan is to blame? What is this some joke? I will push a petition against them. They have thrown themselves down in the eyes of every Pakistani nationalist. 

Lashker e toiba ne jab bol diya key they are not involved then why drag them in and saying pakistan based organization over and over like retards? The terrorists dont need to lie. And LET is a cheap underfunded organization. It was blamed f4 samjhauta express and it turns out its an indian army officer did the bombing and guess why all killed were pakistani? 

LET is not involved. The second article was specially biased and an anti pakistani attempt to tarnish pakistans image made by a news service that has clearly made a fool of itself in the eyes of its own people. SAJA is doing a good job at this sort of thing at last thing we need is Pakistani media posting articles from Indians about the matter.

I will complain at the dawn news office for this idiotic action. Why are they presenting the indian viewpoint and posting article from an indian. Are they too illiterate to present the pro pakistani view?

This attack was horrible to say the least but I will not tolerate this fingerpointing and stupidity. Its like no bomb can go off in India without pakistan being blamed. I am sick and tired of this. 

Indian toh bolein gey what about dawn news. What happened to their mothers?

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## nitesh

MBI Munshi said:


> So Indians can also use the words Gazi and Jihad? I am now seriously confused.



Munshi I lost you won. Now please don't respond to my posts. I want to talk to some rational person that you are not.

I am sorry for being blunt mods.

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## matti

nitesh said:


> Munshi I lost you won. Now please don't respond to my posts. I want to talk to some rational person that you are not.
> 
> I am sorry for being blunt mods.



Learn to be rational to talk to one.


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## haviZsultan

nitesh said:


> Mr. Modi is near Oberai. NDTV says he has announce 1 crore compensation for every policemen who got shaheed



Why modi? 

What the hell dude. This killer is going to give money to people now? He will only raise more hindu fanaticism and teach them to kill and stuff. And it is'nt like sure it was'nt hindu fanatics supported by Modi who attacked mumbai? He should be in jail. It was many muslims who died too afterall. Maybe Modi is frustrated that hindu dharma is going and hindus are preaching all religion is equal and stuff and hindus and muslims all going bhai bhai now so he is losing his authority and ****... 

I am going after hindu girl myself... BTW sikh girls have beautiful eyes... always coloured. Where do they get them f4m? And why dont lahori girls have them. They are punjabi too after all...


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## nitesh

dimension117 said:


> Why modi?
> 
> What the hell dude. This killer is going to give money to people now? He will only raise more hindu fanaticism and teach them to kill and stuff. And it is'nt like sure it was'nt hindu fanatics supported by Modi who attacked mumbai? He should be in jail. It was many muslims who died too afterall. Maybe Modi is frustrated that hindu dharma is going and hindus are preaching all religion is equal and stuff and hindus and muslims all going bhai bhai now so he is losing his authority and ****...



Well before coming to any conclusion will wait for official response.


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## matti

dimension117 said:


> Why modi?
> 
> What the hell dude. This killer is going to give money to people now? He will only raise more hindu fanaticism and teach them to kill and stuff. And it is'nt like sure it was'nt hindu fanatics supported by Modi who attacked mumbai? He should be in jail. It was many muslims who died too afterall. Maybe Modi is frustrated that hindu dharma is going and hindus are preaching all religion is equal and stuff and hindus and muslims all going bhai bhai now so he is losing his authority and ****...
> 
> I am going after hindu girl myself... BTW sikh girls have beautiful eyes... always coloured. Where do they get them f4m? And why dont lahori girls have them. They are punjabi too after all...



It all happened because of mofus like modi. This guy should have been hanged a long ago.


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## haviZsultan

nitesh said:


> Munshi I lost you won. Now please don't respond to my posts. I want to talk to some rational person that you are not.
> 
> I am sorry for being blunt mods.



How could you possibly lose? Indians are always the winners. For example you even taught dawn news some of this apocalyptic stuff like evil "ISI" and its supported LET is coming to get u and all...

I am rational. 
U should talk to me...


----------



## haviZsultan

matti said:


> It all happened because of mofus like modi. This guy should have been hanged a long ago.



Exactly man. There was no bombing in mumbai ever bf4 babri masjid and shiv sena sponsered mumbai genocide.


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## nitesh

dimension117 said:


> How could you possibly lose? Indians are always the winners. For example you even taught dawn news some of this apocalyptic stuff like evil "ISI" and its supported LET is coming to get u and all...
> 
> I am rational.
> U should talk to me...


See we all know how spin is given to the whole thing. There is no word from official sources "only news are from anonymous sources". So let's leave it there. We can have slug match any time


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## Flintlock

dimension117 said:


> Exactly man. There was no bombing in mumbai ever bf4 babri masjid and shiv sena sponsered mumbai genocide.



That's the most bullshit reasoning ever.

There is no justification whatsoever for these terror attacks. 

These are organized militants from outside India, they do not represent Indian muslims.


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## third eye

MBI Munshi said:


> So Indians can also use the words Gazi and Jihad? I am now seriously confused.



Don't why u should be at ur wits end . Is there a patent on muslim / urdu words ?

1000 yrs of living together rubs things off into each other. Notice how many Indian words have crept into english ? Bazar, Guru, Bungalow etc being some of them.


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## shrivatsa

Munir said:


> Well, Either the Indians fail in getting in control or the attackers are well prepared and executing excellent the entire plan (whatever that may be). They did copy Heat... I think we moved towards a new era after 911. It is now openly and hard... Not blowing up a few but well targeted large area. Looking at the age they are not able to think this out without any help.
> 
> 
> NEW CONCLUSION: I think that Indian nuclear assets are in danger. The world should make plans to make sure that they will be destroyed asap. And it raises questions about the nuclear deal with the US... Is this safe?



If Pakistani terrorists can enter India so easily they can bring a Pakistani nuclear bomb easily to India first Pakistani nuclear weapons must be destroyed.they are great threat to the whole world

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## nitesh

CNN-IBN flash - 25+ ppl rescued from the Oberoi (many being foreign nationals)


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## matti

shrivatsa said:


> If Pakistani terrorists can enter India so easily they can bring a Pakistani nuclear bomb easily to India first Pakistani nuclear weapons must be destroyed.they are great threat to the whole world



Lets turn india into banana republic as it is a threat to its neighbors and minorities.


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## haviZsultan

matti said:


> Lets turn india into banana republic as it is a threat to its neighbors and minorities.



lolz........


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## nitesh

Guys stock market is opened and gone up by +200.


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## haviZsultan

Flintlock said:


> That's the most bullshit reasoning ever.
> 
> There is no justification whatsoever for these terror attacks.
> 
> These are organized militants from outside India, they do not represent Indian muslims.



I am not justifying them... go back. I said my uncle was goin to get to mumbai and we cud'nt stay in contact with him cauz of blasts. What else do you want? We guys have lucknowi background et all. We have relatives in lucknow hyderabad and delhi. Prolly quite a few distant ones were in mumbai as well. 

Only thing is indian needs to control the hindu extremists. For example modi who might have been responsible for this illegal attack on India just so he could give 1 million dollars to hindu fanatics and justify his gujrat genocide.


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## haviZsultan

nitesh said:


> Guys stock market is opened and gone up by +200.



Thats cauz there was no ny times faggot to type up whatever bullshit came to his mouth. No articles like:

India a nation ruined by terrorism.

India: most dangerous place on earth. 

You guys r lucky. No lousy allies to deal with eh? 
Must be nice?


----------



## Vinod2070

ejaz007 said:


> Yes indeed. Agreed on this point. However what ever is being said negates this thinking.
> 
> The point I was trying to make is that instead of blaming every thing on us why don't you people share these with us and if nothing is done than you have a reason to blame us.
> 
> It seems your intelligence agencies are fine tuned on one line of action and that is not helping your cause at all.



I think India has tried that in the past and the results were not very encouraging. 

Dawood Ibrahim comes to mind whose Clifton address has been shared with Pakistan and nothing happened. Your own media brings up the issue of his presence in Karachi.

The USA is hesitant to share intel with Pakistan for the same reasons that it may leak out to the terrorists.

But yes, India should try this option once more. Let us hope things have changed since the bad old days. You have to agree that it takes time for the mindsets to change in the our part of the world. But we need to be partners in this rather than automatic adversaries.


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## nitesh

dimension117 said:


> Thats cauz there was no ny times faggot to type up whatever bullshit came to his mouth. No articles like:
> 
> India a nation ruined by terrorism.
> 
> India: most dangerous place on earth.
> 
> You guys r lucky. No lousy allies to deal with eh?
> Must be nice?



I got your point what you are trying to say. I know this hurts. But this sort of problems are more to do with your leaders.


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## matti

Vinod2070 said:


> I think India has tried that in the past and the results were not very encouraging.
> 
> Dawood Ibrahim comes to mind whose Clifton address has been shared with Pakistan and nothing happened. Your own media brings up the issue of his presence in Karachi.
> 
> The USA is hesitant to share intel with Pakistan for the same reasons that it may leak out to the terrorists.
> 
> But yes, India should try this option once more. Let us hope things have changed since the bad old days. You have to agree that it takes time for the mindsets to change in the our part of the world. But we need to be partners in this rather than automatic adversaries.



Both countries share lists of wanted people with each other but neither side does any thing. people like Javed Langra (living in Delhi) are wanted by Pakistan.Has india ever haded over anyone to Pakistan?


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## haviZsultan

matti said:


> Both countries share lists of wanted people with each other but neither side does any thing. people like Javed Langra (living in Delhi) are wanted by Pakistan.Has india ever haded over anyone to Pakistan?



Guess its same thing as of USA. Conflict of interest. They want to strike dead the militants that attack US forces. We want to screw the TET which is secretly funded by RAW and is launching major attacks on Pakistani soil. 

There is infiltration on both sides. Militants f4m pak go to afghanistan and there are also militants f4m afghanistan uzbeks mainly that wage war against us Pakistanis. 

We want to stop suicide bombing and murder of pakistanis on our soil. Selfish Americans are only concerned about their own interests in afgo-land and that their soldiers dont die

I think its gotta do with being white... lol.
White people are just selfish... its just a white thing. Look what goras did to africa. They cant even stop raping each other in the name of hutu tutsi...


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## fatman17

shrivatsa said:


> If Pakistani terrorists can enter India so easily they can bring a Pakistani nuclear bomb easily to India first Pakistani nuclear weapons must be destroyed.they are great threat to the whole world



just like that eh! the problem is not our nuclear weaqpons but your indian intelligence!!! call a spade a spade.

25 terrorists walk into high-profile 5-star hotels without hinderence! they knew exactly where to go and how!

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## nitesh

fatman17 said:


> just like that eh! the problem is not our nuclear weaqpons but your indian intelligence!!! call a spade a spade.
> 
> 25 terrorists walk into high-profile 5-star hotels without hinderence! they knew exactly where to go and how!



fatman sir, you please don't get involved in to this slug match. Please


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## Flintlock

*Shared spreadsheet with terror victims names:*

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p7-Xzfz6qatWSF2nSYdsoWA

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## nitesh

Techies told to keep off Mumbai-Hyderabad-Cities-The Times of India

Techies told to keep off Mumbai
28 Nov 2008, 0354 hrs IST, TNN


HYDERABAD: "Avoid Mumbai" was the blanket instruction issued to software professionals on Thursday morning with
security arrangements beefed up at their campuses and mails reaching their mail boxes before they logged on to their terminals.
Even as the hostage drama continued to unfold in three locations in Mumbai, headquarters of IT firms sent out mails asking their employees to stay away from public places, adhere to security instructions within the campus and, most importantly, avoid travelling to Mumbai.

While Dell has reportedly banned its employees from travelling to India, both Indian and multinational IT firms too have sent out advisory against Mumbai travel. While Satyam has issued a travel advisory asking its associates not to travel to Mumbai and asking those in Mumbai to leave the city, Oracle employees have received a mail from the firm's US headquarter asking its employees to avoid travelling to Mumbai. They have even been asked to stay tuned to television news channels for latest updates.

An updated travel advisory reached Microsoft employees on late Wednesday night itself wherein employees were given dos and dont's in case they were travelling to Mumbai. Microsoft employees in the commercial capital, meanwhile, were asked to stay indoors like most of the organisations' employees in Mumbai.

While Infosys hasn't issued a specific travel advisory it has touched base with its employees who could be travelling to inquire if they are safe and whether they have changed their travel plans.

However, as of now there have been no cancellations of conferences and conventions scheduled in the city. However, local offices of foreign organisations holding these conventions called up the venues on Thursday morning to find out the security arrangements made for the visiting delegates. "Such inquiries are being made. But there are no cancellations of any event,'' said a HICC official, adding that security had been beefed up and organisers' concerns were being put to rest.

Most IT firms too said that the security arrangements on campuses had been strengthened. "While no one is allowed inside our campus without identity cards, we are now even restricting areas frequented by guests,'' said a senior official of an IT firm. While some IT firms are now introducing police patrol on the campus, others are not allowing any vehicle parking near the office entrances.

* Meanwhile, foreign nationals working for various firms in the city said they weren't perturbed by the Mumbai terror attacks. "I don't feel scared because it wasn't only foreigners but even Indians who were killed in this tragic incident,'' says Patrick Dempsey, a US national working in Hyderabad for the last three years. He says he is all set to attend a conference on Friday in a five-star hotel. *


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## haviZsultan

nitesh said:


> fatman sir, you please don't get involved in to this slug match. Please





Its Not a slug match! 
Its entertainment. 

Lets do a countdown till the time Pakistan is blamed...


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## haviZsultan

What about the 2 terrorists who ran away or something? Did you guys catch them?

And the crysis is over rite? I heard some terrorists were still holed up inside taking hostage some 10-20 jewish people. Is that true?


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## nitesh

dimension117 said:


> Its Not a slug match!
> Its entertainment.
> 
> Lets do a countdown till the time Pakistan is blamed...



Leave it buddy we will type the same things we typed again and again. And then admins will come and kick us all


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## newlife

Not only India but many countries like Israel USA Britain Indonesia etc have blamed that pakistani terrorists (ISI agents ,, pakistani borned,, and similers ) ....for the terrorist attacks in their country....
Whole world knows that Al-quaida and many other terror org.s are closely related to pakistan.....
If u want proof just check out world news papers..


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## Awesome

nitesh said:


> Rediff iShare: Terrorist calling himself Sahadullah speaks to India tv
> 
> Rediff iShare: 2nd Terrorist speaks from Nariman house


He SAID JULLAM! JIYADTI!

Only Indians can have such bad pronunciation. A Pakistani would say Zulm, Ziyadti. This is a typical Hyderabad Deccan accent! He expresses disappointment with the Lashkar and Pakistan. He is sort of hostile with Pakistan.

I have no doubts now that these guys are INDIAN!

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## nitesh

In a first, India refuses to negotiate with terrorists-India-The Times of India

In a first, India refuses to negotiate with terrorists
28 Nov 2008, 0424 hrs IST, TNN

NEW DELHI: Probably marking a first in its reaction to hostage situations, India has refused to negotiate with terrorists, even though almost 40
foreigners were held captive by jihadis in Mumbai.

India seems to have joined countries like US, Israel, Russia and some from Europe in refusing to negotiate with terrorists on hostages.

Sources said there was no question of negotiating with the Mumbai terrorists &#8212; but it was important to "talk" to them. There are two aims in this &#8212; buy time for an eventual armed encounter, and get the hostages released in small batches, starting with women and children. India has a bad record in hostage situations &#8212; starting with the 1989 abduction of Rubaiyya Sayeed when her father Mufti Mohammed Sayeed was home minister.

During the 1999 IC-814 hijack, India gave in to demands of Pakistani terrorists supported by Taliban. In return, India released three highly dangerous terrorists &#8212; Masood Azhar, who went on to create Jaish-e-Mohammed, Mushtaq Zargar and Omar Sheikh who is convicted of killing US journalist Daniel Pearl.

In the years that followed, India learnt some things about hostage negotiations and its new resilience was tested on Thursday. In recent years, there have been attacks on Akshardham temple, and Raghunath and Shiva temples in Jammu in 2006, but they did not evolve into hostage situations.

There had been no occasion until Mumbai to test the new Indian policy. But all accounts are that Indian security personnel did not negotiate with terrorists for ransom or for the hostages but only as a tactic to gain time.


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## shchinese

newlife said:


> Not only India but many countries like Israel USA Britain Indonesia etc have blamed that pakistani terrorists (ISI agents ,, pakistani borned,, and similers ) ....for the terrorist attacks in their country....
> Whole world knows that Al-quaida and many other terror org.s are closely related to pakistan.....
> If u want proof just check out world news papers..



but there is still no solid proof for *this attack*. 

you need to come here with some basic logic and some basic respect for the reality, we are here talking about this attack happened in less than 2 days ago. 

Is there any solid evidence against Pakistan and its people when your PM threating the neighbors? NO.

When your PM used the carefully picked word "neighbors", what does that "s" means? tell me what are those countries? Pakistan? what are other countries?


----------



## smeaglegolum

Asim Aquil said:


> He SAID JULLAM! JIYADTI!
> 
> Only Indians can have such bad pronunciation. A Pakistani would say Zulm, Ziyadti. This is a typical Hyderabad Deccan accent! He expresses disappointment with the Lashkar and Pakistan. He is sort of hostile with Pakistan.
> 
> I have no doubts now that these guys are INDIAN!



You don't know nothing about Hyderbadi accent. I'm from hyderabad and I know it is not Hyderabadi. Either it is from north of India or pakisan, who knows.


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## Awesome

shrivatsa said:


> If Pakistani terrorists can enter India so easily they can bring a Pakistani nuclear bomb easily to India first Pakistani nuclear weapons must be destroyed.they are great threat to the whole world


Exactly my point. If Pakistani government was behind this and they wanted to terrorize India why not just slip in a nuke??


----------



## shchinese

Asim Aquil said:


> He SAID JULLAM! JIYADTI!
> 
> Only Indians can have such bad pronunciation. A Pakistani would say Zulm, Ziyadti. This is a typical Hyderabad Deccan accent! He expresses disappointment with the Lashkar and Pakistan. He is sort of hostile with Pakistan.
> 
> I have no doubts now that these guys are INDIAN!



you are a bad boy.

by pointing out such clear facts, Indian PM and government will be put into very awful positions. by realizing the facts that this attack is caused by the mismanagement of the India government, people are going to see the true color of the current regime of India.


----------



## Kumar

fatman17 said:


> just like that eh! the problem is not our nuclear weaqpons but your indian intelligence!!! call a spade a spade.
> 
> 25 terrorists walk into high-profile 5-star hotels without hinderence! they knew exactly where to go and how!



How a truck can enter in to a heavily guarded Marriott hotel..and explode in a right place to cause max causalities without hinderence! they also know exactly where to go and how.


----------



## newlife

> He SAID JULLAM! JIYADTI!
> A Pakistani would say Zulm, Ziyadti.






... 

What type of argument is this.....

u can only differentiate between JIYADTI and Ziyadti only when some one writes them... 
More over his voice was not clear ....u can't argue with that point...JIYADTI and Ziyadti


----------



## Awesome

smeaglegolum said:


> You don't know nothing about Hyderbadi accent. I'm from hyderabad and I know it is not Hyderabadi. Either it is from north of India or pakisan, who knows.


Well no Pakistani, and I repeat NO PAKISTANI would say jullam, Jiyadti, FIR!

He keeps saying FIR. We say phir. The guy couldn't speak Urdu even though he was trying.

Stop living in denial, Terrorists are Indian too!


----------



## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> He SAID JULLAM! JIYADTI!
> 
> Only Indians can have such bad pronunciation. A Pakistani would say Zulm, Ziyadti. This is a typical Hyderabad Deccan accent! He expresses disappointment with the Lashkar and Pakistan. He is sort of hostile with Pakistan.



I remember some Pakistanis with a bad accent. That "totala" Miandad for one.

You know nothing of Hyderbadi accents. I am in Hyderabad. He was faking it. These guys are Pakistani. There is no doubt.

They may not represent Pakistani policy but the support of some guys here proves that at least sections of Pakistanis support them as they support OBL and Taliban. 

Anyway it is going to boomerang as the AQ support boomeranged on the Taliban.



Asim Aquil said:


> I have no doubts now that these guys are INDIAN!



Let us wait. We will share their street addresses shortly. That caught terrorist will tell all and some more.


----------



## nitesh

6 hostages got killed by the terrorist - CNN IBN


----------



## newlife

shchinese said:


> but there is still no solid proof for *this attack*.
> 
> you need to come here with some basic logic and some basic respect for the reality, we are here talking about this attack happened in less than 2 days ago.
> 
> Is there any solid evidence against Pakistan and its people when your PM threating the neighbors? NO.
> 
> When your PM used the carefully picked word "neighbors", what does that "s" means? tell me what are those countries? Pakistan? what are other countries?



*this attack*. 

this attack is like all other terrorist attacks which the world has seen in the recent past...


----------



## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> Exactly my point. If Pakistani government was behind this and they wanted to terrorize India why not just slip in a nuke??



Because the reprisal may not be pleasant at all.


----------



## matti

newlife said:


> Not only India but many countries like Israel USA Britain Indonesia etc have blamed that pakistani terrorists (ISI agents ,, pakistani borned,, and similers ) ....for the terrorist attacks in their country....
> Whole world knows that Al-quaida and many other terror org.s are closely related to pakistan.....
> If u want proof just check out world news papers..



new life you need a new brain also. I dont know about other countries as i dont read world news papers but as for india i know its a part of your daily life to blame Pakistan for everthing that goes wrong in your country.


----------



## Nihat

Vinod2070 said:


> Because the reprisal may not be pleasant at all.



Given the anarchy of the situation there , it might just happen soon.


----------



## Awesome

Vinod2070 said:


> I remember some Pakistanis with a bad accent. That "totala" Miandada for one.


Well c'mon this guy wasn't lisping!

What a weak argument! Sure a lisp explains JULAM? In typical miandad accent, it would be dum.



> You know nothing of Hyderbadi accents. I am in Hyderabad. He was faking it. These guys are Pakistani. There is no doubt.


Man if anything this audio conversation is DAMNING evidence that they are not Pakistanis!



> They may not represent Pakistani policy but the support of some guys here proves that at least sections of Pakistanis support them as they support OBL and Taliban.


BS, almost every person here has supported India in its time of tragedy. It's just that when you insist that we're murdering fiends, thats when we have a problem.



> Anyway it is going to boomerang as the AQ support boomeranged on the Taliban.


We've killed more terrorists in the past 8 years than the whole world combined. We kill our terrorists not collaborate with them and send them to India. These terrorists masquerading as jihadis don't like Pakistanis so much if you haven't been reading the news this past 8 years.



> Let us wait. We will share their street addresses shortly. That caught terrorist will tell all and some more.


That phone that keeps ringing is from Zardari. The address would be constitution ave, their secret terrorist training camp would be the minaar-e-Pakistan.

Your intel agencies have no clue and are going to lie about it all till they turn blue.


----------



## newlife

> new life you need a new brain also. I dont know about other countries as i dont read world news papers but as for india i know its a part of your daily life to blame Pakistan for everthing that goes wrong in your country.





> new life you need a new brain also.


Plz mind ur language




> I dont know about other countries as i dont read world news papers



Go and read some world news.then u know how pakistan is realted with many terrorist attacks around the world........


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## matti

newlife said:


> ...
> 
> What type of argument is this.....
> 
> u can only differentiate between JIYADTI and Ziyadti only when some one writes them...
> More over his voice was not clear ....u can't argue with that point...JIYADTI and Ziyadti



Are u serious hearing someone saying J for Z makes me want to throwup.
Jero Jero


----------



## Nihat

neither of you guys are investigators are you , are you?

If both are incapable of giving solid proof then don't speculate and give rise to wild theories.


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## Awesome

Nihat said:


> neither of you guys are investigators are you , are you?
> 
> If both are incapable of giving solid proof then don't speculate and give rise to wild theories.


It's common knowledge that when Manmohan Singh's dhoti flutters the Indian intel blames Pakistani winds.

That is the level of investigators in India.

For all the south Indians that have popped up here, Dhoti = Mundu.

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## newlife

> It's common knowledge that when Manmohan Singh's dhoti flutters the Indian intel blames Pakistani winds.



IT IS A TERRORIST ATTACK SIR....

130 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED BY TERRORIST ......


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## Nihat

Asim Aquil said:


> It's common knowledge that when Manmohan Singh's dhoti flutters the Indian intel blames Pakistani winds.
> 
> That is the level of investigators in India.
> 
> For all the south Indians that have popped up here, Dhoti = Mundu.



Whatever it is , why are you falling for media speculation.

The seige is not over yet and expect nothing concrete to come out before net week.

In the mean time enjoy watching the Jehadis die a brutal death.


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## Awesome

newlife said:


> IT IS A TERRORIST ATTACK SIR....
> 
> 130 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED BY TERRORIST ......


Sir, we live amongst terror attacks a lot more than you guys do.

To insist that we still support such terror, is an equal mockery on the thousands dead within Pakistan.


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## matti

newlife said:


> IT IS A TERRORIST ATTACK SIR....
> 
> 130 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED BY TERRORIST ......


OK.
IT IS A TERRORIST ATTACK 
130 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED BY TERRORIST 
Conclusion : Pakistan did it.


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## salman nedian

newlife said:


> Go and read some world news.then u know how pakistan is realted with many terrorist attacks around the world........



It doesnt mean that Pakistan is responsible for these attacks. India has many broader objectives and you are playing with fire in Afghanistan my dear friend! I am worried that this whole region will be destroyed by Indian backstabbing from Afghanistan.


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## Awesome

matti said:


> OK.
> IT IS A TERRORIST ATTACK
> 130 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED BY TERRORIST
> Conclusion : Pakistan did it.


Yeah his message is like "ITS A TERROR ATTACK, 130 MILLION PEOPLE HAVE DIED. SHUT UP AND TAKE IT AS WE GIVE IT".

Oh and can we stop with the caps. Very annoying.


----------



## Flintlock

*Pakistani accent (listen to the interviewer's accent - exactly matches with the second interview with India TV)*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> *Pakistani accent (listen to the interviewer's accent - exactly matches with the second interview with India TV)*
> 
> u-F6nFvIpSs[/media] - Observe difference of Punjabi accents


That guy spoke proper urdu.

And all the rest were speaking Punjabi!


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## Nihat

Why are some of us blaming Pak , it's OUR intelligence failure - just like Kargil , these guys need to pull up their socks.

Pak is in no position to cause this Havoc , besides they're doing a good job of destroying themselves.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## nitesh

Nihat said:


> besides they're doing a good job of destroying themselves.



very rightly said


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## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> That guy spoke proper urdu.
> 
> And all the rest were speaking Punjabi!



Listen to the Interviewer's _accent._


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## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> Well c'mon this guy wasn't lisping!
> 
> What a weak argument! Sure a lisp explains JULAM? In typical miandad accent, it would be dum.



Well 170 million Pakistani will have a lot of accents among them. Add trying to fake and mislead to the mix.



Asim Aquil said:


> Man if anything this audio conversation is DAMNING evidence that they are not Pakistanis!



It is no evidence of anything. We need to be a bit patient. He may well be trying to mislead.



Asim Aquil said:


> BS, almost every person here has supported India in its time of tragedy. It's just that when you insist that we're murdering fiends, thats when we have a problem.



No one has blamed Pakistan as a country so far. The terror groups within Pakistan and some rogue elements are another matter.

How could you be sure they are not involved? Let us wait for the facts.



Asim Aquil said:


> We've killed more terrorists in the past 8 years than the whole world combined. We kill our terrorists not collaborate with them and send them to India. These terrorists masquerading as jihadis don't like Pakistanis so much if you haven't been reading the news this past 8 years.



Yes Pakistan has suffered at the hands of terror itself. All the more reason to come clean and not have a good terrorist bad terrorist logic anymore.



Asim Aquil said:


> That phone that keeps ringing is from Zardari. The address would be constitution ave, their secret terrorist training camp would be the minaar-e-Pakistan.



Let us not guess it. We will have all the details.



Asim Aquil said:


> Your intel agencies have no clue and are going to lie about it all till they turn blue.



They will get their clues.

See, I hate to say it but your own agencies have obviously not done a great job in Bajaur. If they are competent and still did not provide intel to Pakistan military it points to something more sinister than mere incompetence.

Trying to score points on this score is useless. There is no doubt that our intelligence apparatus needs an overhaul. That may well be true for you too.


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## salman nedian

It could be done by Indian government itself. Every thing is possible in this world. Remember the incidence of high jacking an Indian plane by militants and after that all the chaos in Afghanistan by US started.


----------



## newlife

Exactly what i m saying......

pakistanis were involved in many of the terrorists attacks around the world.....

why they can't be associated with any attack in India..


----------



## nitesh

^^
Then same seems to done by your government in your country the mariott the bajaur and all


----------



## salman nedian

newlife said:


> Exactly what i m saying......
> 
> pakistanis were involved in many of the terrorists attacks around the world.....
> 
> why they can't be associated with any attack in India..



prove this!


----------



## salman nedian

nitesh said:


> ^^
> Then same seems to done by your government in your country the mariott the bajaur and all



You must understand the objectives of both the countries first.


----------



## Nihat

newlife said:


> Exactly what i m saying......
> 
> pakistanis were involved in many of the terrorists attacks around the world.....
> 
> why they can't be associated with any attack in India..



They can be , they are suspects but wait for investigation before coming out all guns blazing on Pak. Have some paiitence.


----------



## newlife

> It could be done by Indian government itself. Every thing is possible in this world.



*Here comes one more conspiracy theory...*

Unlike pakistan v hav democratic govt. which is elected by the people of India.


----------



## nitesh

salman nedian said:


> You must understand the objectives of both the countries first.



Care to elaborate what r u trying to say


----------



## salman nedian

newlife said:


> *Here comes one more conspiracy theory...*
> 
> Unlike pakistan v hav democratic govt. which is elected by the people of India.



Doesnt make any difference wather you have democratic government or not, Its all about objectives and aims.


----------



## Nihat

nitesh said:


> Care to elaborate what r u trying to say



objective being stronger intelligence . Not the tardy IB we have now - It needs a complete overhaul.


----------



## matti

salman nedian said:


> prove this!



Sorry mate you are asking the wrong people for proof. They have some sort of supernatural power which tells them right away who did it, so they dont need any evidence.


----------



## nitesh

bloody scum bags

Six hostages killed at Oberoi Trident: NSG

Six hostages killed at Oberoi Trident: NSG

New Delhi: The National Security Guard (NSG) and the Marine Commandos early on Friday rescued 40 guests from The Trident Hotel (formerly known as Oberoi), 36 hours after they were taken hostage by terrorists believed to be affiliated to Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT).

A heavy exchange of fire between the security personnel and the terrorists was reported soon after the rescue. One terrorist was reportedly killed in the crossfire.

An NSG official said at least six hostages were feared dead.

&#8220;Terrorists don&#8217;t want to listen to anything. They are not ready to surrender. They are threatening to kill all the hostages,&#8221; he said.

At least 100 persons, including a World Bank official, are still suspected to be trapped inside the hotel. 

The rescued hostages, many of who are foreign nationals, were swiftly escorted to a private bus, as anxious relatives and family members present outside the hotel heaved a sigh of relief.

Police had to resort to lathi charge to bring the crowd of curious onlookers under control.

The National Security Guard and the Marine Commandos are into the final assault against terrorists at the Oberoi hotel. The assault team has sanitised parts of the Oberoi Trident.

Another NSG official informed CNN-IBN that room intervention operation was underway at the Oberoi, where two more floors are yet to be sanitised.

&#8220;A room intervention drill entry is made in every room, following which we check each and every thing without any collateral damage. It takes about four to five minutes,&#8221; he explained.

"Final assault is yet to happen," he added.

Meanwhile, Army sources claim that the terrorists were provided commando training by Pakistan Army. They also suggested that the terrorists were provided boats and other logistical support by the Mumbai underworld.


----------



## haviZsultan

Vinod2070 said:


> Well 170 million Pakistani will have a lot of accents among them. Add trying to fake and mislead to the mix.
> 
> It is no evidence of anything. We need to be a bit patient. He may well be trying to mislead.



Pateince means= Pakistan will be blamed. 

Infact ur mammo boi already blamed us. If I were u i'd investigate the fanatical hindu organizations. The cops who died were probing malegaon blasts where a Indian officer of the army was to blame u knw that? I bet the muslims in India will rise in absolute rebellion when they hear the malegaon proceedings come to a halt and the blame for this terrorist strike by hindu fanatical organizations in India is put on the head of Pakistanis.



> No one has blamed Pakistan as a country so far. The terror groups within Pakistan and some rogue elements are another matter.
> 
> How could you be sure they are not involved? Let us wait for the facts.
> 
> Yes Pakistan has suffered at the hands of terror itself. All the more reason to come clean and not have a good terrorist bad terrorist logic anymore.
> 
> Let us not guess it. We will have all the details.



They blamed militant group in our country. I mean now that i think of it it must be right? How can it be anyone exept Pakistan. Every bullet and every bomb that goes of in India is either Bangladeshi or Pakistani. 



> *They will get their clues.
> 
> See, I hate to say it but your own agencies have obviously not done a great job in Bajaur. If they are competent and still did not provide intel to Pakistan military it points to something more sinister than mere incompetence.
> 
> Trying to score points on this score is useless. There is no doubt that our intelligence apparatus needs an overhaul. That may well be true for you too.*



No your intelligence does'nt need an overhaul! What are you talking about? 

RAW is a very very dangerous organization that has slaughtered 4000 innocent Pakistanis, butchered 1800 pakistani soldiers, 25000 children cant study and all that has been achieved under a shroud of secrecy cloaking their actions behind the taliban and giving a bad image of Pakistan. For example the tehreek e taliban was provided with arms ammunition and 680 million dollars to engage and kill innocent Pakistanis. And guess what no one from this world would ever guess that it was actually RAW and hindu fanatics from India sponsering terrorism on Pakistani soil.

Even in bangal RAW orchestrated several massacres as Pakistanis and Bangalis peacefully slept together in their camps like brothers man. Even 117th batallion was not near chittagong at the time a massacre blamed on it was done. (Clearly RAW involvement proven by great indian authors like Shweta etc.)

RAW might have been responsible for this attack and also for buying a few retards in dawn news which for the benefit of a few dollars gave a biased report of the entire situation. I just wish some nice military guy was ruling who i was buddy buddy with. If i were round I would have sent police force straight to dawn news office and give them some nice tight slaps from my Pakistani hand...

I condemn this dirty and vile act of RAW sponsered terrorism that has grabbed the poor peace-loving Indians of Mumbai from their sleep. We Pakistanis are with Mumbaites in this difficult time where an intelligence agency has turned against its own people just to protect a fanatical terrorist army officer responsible for malegaon blasts! 

Pakistan must and will provide all the help needed in reigning in an organization such as RAW that has crossed all limits this very day. The only reason Mumbaites cannot go to sleep in peace today is because of RAW.


----------



## newlife

pakistanis were involved in many of the terrorists attacks around the world.....

why they can't be associated with any attack in India..



> prove this!





yaar what the F is this....

Many countries have give full evidance that pakistanis are involved in the terror attacks in their countries....

and u r asking 4 proof....


----------



## Nihat

> I bet the muslims in India will rise in absolute rebellion when they hear the malegaon proceedings come to a halt and the blame for this terrorist strike by hindu fanatical organizations in India is put on the head of Pakistanis.



Please refrain from using Religion here.


----------



## Awesome

newlife said:


> pakistanis were involved in many of the terrorists attacks around the world.....
> 
> why they can't be associated with any attack in India..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yaar what the F is this....
> 
> Many countries have give full evidance that pakistanis are involved in the terror attacks in their countries....
> 
> and u r asking 4 proof....


I'm bored... 

They even canceled the ICL world series. Lol Pakistan win by default for being the highest in the standings. Wait a while and the Indian investigators will blame Inzamam to have engineered all this to win the ICL world series.

IPL may not happen either. The English are in Dubai, Ausies won't come.


----------



## haviZsultan

Nihat said:


> Please refrain from using Religion here.



No I am not using religion. I am just saying what reaction the muslims of India might have like u know the policemen killed were operating fairly and justly and they were about to find out exactly who was responsible for the horrible murder and carnage of samjhauta express and the malegaon blasts u c...

Nihat are u a girl? I have never in my life heard that name before... what does it mean?


----------



## haviZsultan

Asim Aquil said:


> I'm bored...
> 
> They even canceled the ICL world series. Lol Pakistan win by default for being the highest in the standings. Wait a while and the Indian investigators will blame Inzamam to have engineered all this to win the ICL world series.
> 
> IPL may not happen either. The English are in Dubai, Ausies won't come.



lolz... 

hey u did'nt tell me u lived in dubai... i want pokari sweat f4m back there... yahan kuch milta nahi hai...

I lived in dubai 2 f4 4-5 years.


----------



## newlife

> Wait a while and the Indian investigators will blame Inzamam to have engineered all this to win the ICL world series.




:rolf: nice..... .


----------



## IceCold

newlife said:


> *pakistanis were involved in many of the terrorists attacks around the world*.....




What you forgot to mention was that they were actually the citizens of that particular country and were born there, lived their whole life there and therefore the blame lies on that particular country and not Pakistan.


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## Awesome

Taj is still occupied, still has hostages inside. The commandoes say they can't operate without getting them all killed.


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## newlife

> No I am not using religion. I am just saying what reaction the muslims of India might have like u know the policemen killed were operating fairly and justly and they were about to find out exactly who was responsible for the horrible murder and carnage of samjhauta express and the malegaon blasts u c...



The probe would continue..... ATS will take care of it..... there r many good officers ....


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## nitesh

The MARCOS commander is saying that they didn't know the layout. One employee of the Taj accoimpanied them everywhere trying to help them. I really salute the bravery of that employee.


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## haviZsultan

nitesh said:


> The MARCOS commander is saying that they didn't know the layout. One employee of the Taj accoimpanied them everywhere trying to help them. I really salute the bravery of that employee.



I salute the people of Mumbai who braved this incident of RAW sponsered terrorism. 

We Pakistanis are with you people of Mumbai.


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## Nihat

Asim Aquil said:


> I'm bored...
> 
> They even canceled the ICL world series. Lol Pakistan win by default for being the highest in the standings. Wait a while and the Indian investigators will blame Inzamam to have engineered all this to win the ICL world series.
> 
> IPL may not happen either. The English are in Dubai, Ausies won't come.



Nah - English will be back and Champions League has been postponed but no cancelled.

The gora cricket boards live on our money , can't afford to loose it.


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## haviZsultan

I actually heard some terrorists even escaped. How is that even possible after they were shooting around the whole city like crazy?

Also have oberoi and taj been cleared of the terroristic cultists like completely yet?

They were sayin some terrorist dumbasses were holed up in some of the rooms etc.


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## newlife

> What you forgot to mention was that they were actually the citizens of that particular country and were born there, lived their whole life there and therefore the blame lies on that particular country and not Pakistan.



Refer to my older post:



> Not only India but many countries like Israel USA Britain Indonesia etc have blamed that pakistani terrorists *(ISI agents ,, pakistani borned,, and similers )* ....for the terrorist attacks in their country....
> Whole world knows that Al-quaida and many other terror org.s are closely related to pakistan.....
> If u want proof just check out world news papers..





And plzz stop it....I m also bored with it...

A pakistani would never say that pakistan could do any wrong thing...
An Indian would never say that India could do any wrong thing...

EOT


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## Awesome

nitesh said:


> The MARCOS commander is saying that they didn't know the layout. One employee of the Taj accoimpanied them everywhere trying to help them. I really salute the bravery of that employee.


Since two days they are saying the terrorists know the layout very well, but the Commandoes didn't know?

They don't have any maps? They couldn't ask the staff? This is poor work. Kudos to the employee who saved the day.


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## Nihat

dimension117 said:


> I salute the people of Mumbai who braved this incident of RAW sponsered terrorism.
> 
> We Pakistanis are with you people of Mumbai.



See , now you're talking like you don't want others too.

If you want the others to stop making "mindless claims" about Pak then you don't do the same . It only provokes others and leads to nothing but waste of bandwidth


----------



## fatman17

*Sophisticated Attacks, but by Whom?* 

By ALAN COWELL and SOUAD MEKHENNET

Published: November 27, 2008 

PARIS  A day after the terror attacks in Mumbai that killed over 100 people, one question remained as impenetrable as the smoke that still billowed from two of the citys landmark hotels: who carried out the attacks?

Terrorism in IndiaThe Indian authorities say they captured some of the attackers, so some answers may emerge soon. But for now, their identities remain a mystery. Surviving witnesses recalled the gunmen as masked young men in unremarkable T-shirts and jeans, some heavily armed, wearing backpacks filled with weapons. The only claim of responsibility came from a group that may not even exist. 

The assaults represented a marked departure in scope and ambition from other recent terrorist attacks in India, which have singled out local people rather than foreigners and hit single rather than multiple targets.

The Mumbai assault, by contrast, was seemed directed at foreigners, involved hostage taking and was aimed at multiple and highly symbolic targets.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh of India said the attacks probably had external linkages, reflecting calculations among Indian officials that the level of planning, preparation and coordination could not have been achieved without help from experienced terrorists. But some security experts insisted the style of the attacks and the targets in Mumbai suggested the militants were likely to be Indian Muslims, with a domestic agenda.

The e-mail message taking responsibility that was sent to Indian media outlets on Wednesday night said the attackers were from a group called Deccan Mujahedeen. Deccan is a neighborhood of the Indian city of Hyderabad. The word also describes the middle and south of India, which is dominated by the Deccan Plateau. Mujahedeen is the commonly used Arabic word for holy fighters. 

But security experts drew a blank on any such organization. Sajjan Gohel, a security expert in London, called it a front name and said the group was nonexistent.

*An Indian security official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to be identified said the name suggested ties to a group called Indian Mujahedeen, which has been implicated in a string of bombing attacks in India killing about 200 people this year alone*.

On Sept. 15, an e-mail message published in Indian newspapers and said to have been sent by representatives of Indian Mujahedeen threatened potential deadly attacks in Mumbai. The message warned counterterrorism officials in the city that you are already on our hit-list and this time very, very seriously. 

Several high-ranking law enforcement officials, including the chief of the antiterrorism squad and a commissioner of police, were, indeed, reported killed in the attacks in Mumbai.

With relations long strained between India and Pakistan, particularly over the disputed territory of Kashmir, suspicions turned toward Al Qaeda or Pakistani militants. The Indian security official said the attackers likely had ties to Lashkar-e-Taiba, a guerrilla group run by Pakistani intelligence in the conflict with India in the disputed territory of Kashmir. On Thursday, the group denied involved in the Mumbai attacks. India also blamed Lashkar-e-Taiba for a suicide assault on its Parliament by gunmen in December 2001 that led to a perilous military standoff with Pakistan.

*The Indian official also suggested the foot-soldiers in the attack might have emerged from an outlawed militant group of Islamic students. Photographs from security cameras showed some youthful attackers carrying assault rifles and smiling as they began the operation. *

Christine Fair, senior political scientist and a South Asia expert at the RAND Corporation, was careful to say that the identity of the terrorists could not yet be known. But she pointed to Indias domestic problems, and long tensions between Hindus, who make up about 80 percent of Indias population of 1.13 billion, and Muslims, who make up 13.4 percent. 

*There are a lot of very, very angry Muslims in India, Ms. Fair said. The economic disparities are startling and India has been very slow to publicly embrace its rising Muslim problem. You cannot put lipstick on this pig. This is a major domestic political challenge for India*.

*The public political face of India says, Our Muslims have not been radicalized, she said. But the Indian intelligence apparatus knows thats not true. Indias Muslim communities are being sucked into the global landscape of Islamist jihad.* 

*Indians will have a strong incentive to link this to Al Qaeda, she said. But this is a domestic issue. This is not Indias 9/11.*

Alan Cowell reported from Paris, and Souad Mekhennet from Frankfurt. Mark McDonald contributed reporting from Hong Kong, and Salman Masood from Islamabad, Pakistan.


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## nitesh

Asim Aquil said:


> Since two days they are saying the terrorists know the layout very well, but the Commandoes didn't know?
> 
> They don't have any maps? They couldn't ask the staff? This is poor work. Kudos to the employee who saved the day.



This was said by MARCOS who were engaging the terrorists very first not by NSG who have taken over long back


----------



## newlife

> The gora cricket boards live on our money , can't afford to loose it.



contribution of BCCIin ICC is more than 70 &#37;(financially )


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## pkpatriotic

*Terror has no boundaries; cricket takes a back seat:, The Hindu Business Line*
*Meera Mohanty *

*New Delhi, Nov. 27 The terror attack was a little too close for comfort for the cricket fraternity too. Rooms had been booked at the Taj Mahal Palace and Tower, Mumbai, for the teams which would be participating in the now postponed Champions League 20:20.* 

Some were already there. We thought we were only dining when the situation broke, Mr Robert Nicholls, a partner at Nicholls Steyn and Associates, the South African security agency hired by the Indian Premier League, who was at the Souk, the fine dining rooftop restaurant of the hotel, told Business Line. 

When gunshots and blasts were heard, he and six of his colleagues helped guests stay calm, guiding them to a nearby conference room. Shy of disclosing too many details, all Mr Nichols will say is that they knew terrorists were in the hotel, and they secured the conference room and the 150-odd guests who were with them. Working with the hotels security, they left the premises at 4.30 a.m. 

Terror isnt something cricket organisers havent dealt with earlier. Mr Lalit Modi, Chairman of the IPL, points out that the IPL had continued with its matches after the Jaipur blast. All the teams wanted to come and play the league, but it was difficult to find a new venue at such a sort notice, said Mr Modi, speaking to Business Line. Chennai and Bangalores pitches would take a beating by the time the semi-finals and finals took place, if 7-8 matches were held there, he added.

Ticket sales were to open from Friday for the tournament scheduled to start next Tuesday. Alternative venues will be decided before the new dates are announced, said Mr Sunder Raman, CEO, IPL. Mr Raman was also staying at the hotel, but was with his team working late in office. 

*The Taj is sentimental for many of the cricketers. They have stayed there in the past, and have many memories associated with the hotel, said Mr Modi. Security-wise, he says India does the best job. Thats why the Board has decided to go ahead with the India-England test series. The remaining two one day internationals have, however, been cancelled.* 

The revenue losses would not hurt as much, said broadcaster Neo. We will not have the upside that we expected considering that India was on a great run, but a good part of the consumption of advertising inventory from the bigger buyers has already happened during the five ODIs that have taken place, said Mr Abhishek Verma, Associate Vice-President (Marketing), Neo Sports Broadcast, reluctant to talk figures. 

The Essel Groups Indian Cricket League has also called off the rest of its Season Two of the ICL World Series tournament on its last leg in Ahmedabad.


----------



## haviZsultan

newlife said:


> The probe would continue..... ATS will take care of it..... there r many good officers ....



No but I believe the Indian muslims would be assuming this is a trick by MR Modi here who might have been responsible for the evil act... the poor Indian muslims have on several occasions been attacked by Modi and his gangsters. 

They would be assuming that Modi and the terrorists and hindu fanatics will now get officers of his own liking to prove this fanatic army officer not guilty even though he is responsible for samjhauta express and for malegaon.


----------



## IceCold

It actually amazes me to see how easily every time something happens in India, blame is shifted on Pakistan and now on Pakistanis. As for the incident it is sad indeed as many innocent people have lost their lives and my sincere condolences to the families of those both from security agencies and civilians who have lost a dear one in this chaos. 
However it is also sad that instead of catching the real culprits, Indian security agencies and media tries to find out a shortcut and that is to put all blame on Pakistan, and therefore shift the public anger from their incompetence to Pakistan. Does it help? No it does not, because you guys are chasing a wrong enemy here. 
Seriously we have better things to do, we have plenty of our mess to take care off, we don't have the time to poke our nose where it doesn't belong.

even then if it makes you guys happy, please do carry on blaming Pakistan, we frankly don't give a damn, after all its natural tradition for India, the only thing we do care about as a human being is the loss of life. Some one was earlier saying i think Flintlock that our airforce needs to take out what he calls terrorist cells inside Pakistan, indeed high on emotion and low on logic as a chinese friend here said, India is no US.


----------



## nitesh

dimension117 said:


> I salute the people of Mumbai who braved this incident of RAW sponsered terrorism.
> 
> We Pakistanis are with you people of Mumbai.



The same way I support the people of pakistan which are getting killed in NWFP by the terrorism inflicted by your army and ISI on daily basis


----------



## salman nedian

newlife said:


> yaar what the F is this....
> 
> Many countries have give full evidance that pakistanis are involved in the terror attacks in their countries....
> 
> and u r asking 4 proof....



I am asking to prove the Pakistani involvement in Mumbai attacks.


----------



## newlife

It was a pre planned attack ....

So it is obvious that terrorists will have full knowledge about locations ,maps etc...


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## IceCold

nitesh said:


> The same way I support the people of pakistan which are getting killed in NWFP by the terrorism inflicted by your army and ISI on daily basis



Get it over with. Its not going to help one bit.


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## nitesh

IceCold said:


> Get it over with. Its not going to help one bit.



I know Ice, got your point. Will try to restrain, but you should check why I responded like this


----------



## Nihat

dimension117 said:


> No but I believe the Indian muslims would be assuming this is a trick by MR Modi here who might have been responsible for the evil act... the poor Indian muslims have on several occasions been attacked by Modi and his gangsters.
> 
> They would be assuming that Modi and the terrorists and hindu fanatics will now get officers of his own liking to prove this fanatic army officer not guilty even though he is responsible for samjhauta express and for malegaon.



It does make some Muslims vulnerable I must say but a vast majority don't care - The rich ones have a business to carry on , the middle class have other daily life issues to deal with and the lower Income group Muslims worry more about how the next meal will come.


btw - I think you had asked about my name , I'm a guy and my name is Nihat Karim , where Nihat means - servant of God.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Bull

Asim Aquil said:


> Since two days they are saying the terrorists know the layout very well, but the Commandoes didn't know?
> 
> They don't have any maps? They couldn't ask the staff? This is poor work. Kudos to the employee who saved the day.



Have you seen that bloody building? Its a massive 400+ rooms hotel, with innumerable passages. How the hell can any human get familar with such a layout in a day?

The fact that terrorist knew better, might be because they had done recon missions before or might be a few of them had checked in days before to be joined by this raiding terror party.

Or it could be said ina relative term. Relatively the terrorists knew more than the commandos as they are holed in there for 2 days.


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## haviZsultan

Nihat said:


> See , now you're talking like you don't want others too.
> 
> If you want the others to stop making "mindless claims" about Pak then you don't do the same . It only provokes others and leads to nothing but waste of bandwidth



I was just copying the indian "mindless claims" for my personal satisfaction. Is something wrong with that?


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## Vinod2070

And don't pretend that you have any love for Indian Muslims. I know how many Pakistani forum members were celebrating when the Glasgow bomber turned out to be a brainwashed Muslim who happened to be born in India.

There was no care for Islam or Indian Muslims then, just happiness that other Muslims could be terrorists too.


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## IceCold

newlife said:


> Refer to my older post:



Don't have time to go through all 50 pages reading your crap.







> And plzz stop it....I m also bored with it...
> 
> A pakistani would never say that pakistan could do any wrong thing...
> An Indian would never say that India could do any wrong thing...
> 
> EOT



Stop what? Should i take your word for it or for that matter the way you guys like to change the entire meaning of what one man said and present it in a way that best suits the flavor.


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## Nihat

dimension117 said:


> I was just copying the indian "mindless claims" for my personal satisfaction. Is something wrong with that?



nop , do as you like


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## nitesh

more gunshots heard at VT station (un confirmed news)


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## Bull

dimension117 said:


> Pateince means= Pakistan will be blamed..)



Pakistan as in areas of pakistan that you admin has lost control. the tribal areas.



dimension117 said:


> Even in bangal RAW orchestrated several massacres as Pakistanis and Bangalis peacefully slept together in their camps like brothers man. Even 117th batallion was not near chittagong at the time a massacre blamed on it was done. (Clearly RAW involvement proven by great indian authors like Shweta etc.)



Rubbish. From which madrass did you learn this?


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## pkpatriotic

*Mumbai Attacks Evoke Thoughts of New York Terrorism* - MyFox New York 
*Thursday, 27 Nov 2008*

*Prayers and tears flowed on Thanksgiving Day for the victims of the Mumbai, India, massacres. The shockwaves from the attacks reverberated in New York, evoking a kinship throughout the Indian community and a city with its own firsthand knowledge of terrorism.*

"As New Yorkers, we know the toll that terrorism takes all too well," Mayor Michael Bloomberg said during a prayer service Thursday at the Hindu Temple Society of North America. "I think Mumbai and New York have always been somewhat united, but today, never more so."

In Mumbai -- geographically on the other side of the world -- suspected militants armed with assault rifles, hand grenades and explosives launched a highly coordinated attack against 10 sites on Wednesday night, killing more than 120 people and injuring nearly 300.

"It reminds me of 9/11," Dr. Uma Mysorekar, president of the temple society, said at the service held in Queens, about a dozen miles from the World Trade Center site.

City Council Speaker Christine Quinn, noting New York's "very significant and vibrant Indian American population," reiterated that New York knows "the pain of the city that has been attacked" and wants to "send all our thoughts and love and prayers" to those who are suffering.

There are about 2.5 million people of Indian descent in the United States, including about 236,000 in New York, according to census estimates.


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## nitesh

Turkish couple let off by terrorists for being Muslims-India-The Times of India
Turkish couple let off by terrorists for being Muslims


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## Bull

dimension117 said:


> No but I believe the Indian muslims would be assuming this is a trick by MR Modi here who might have been responsible for the evil act... the poor Indian muslims have on several occasions been attacked by Modi and his gangsters.
> 
> They would be assuming that Modi and the terrorists and hindu fanatics will now get officers of his own liking to prove this fanatic army officer not guilty even though he is responsible for samjhauta express and for malegaon.




How do you believe the Indian inv agencies when they blame a hindu and not when they blame a Muslim?

*@#.

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## haviZsultan

newlife said:


> It was a pre planned attack ....
> 
> So it is obvious that terrorists will have full knowledge about locations ,maps etc...



So naturally if it was pre planned someone from mumbai gave them maps information etc about the place otherwise how did they know where to attack. Even jewish synagogoe was attacked. Holy Cow! How do you find a jewish synagogue in a place like mumbai. Jews barely are 50000 in mumbai...

I think someone from inside definately was involved to have had this sort of info abt the whole city and stuff. Like where to attack etc.

I think muslims are the target here yet again. This attack was necessary to throw the malegaon investigations into abyss. Modi has planned to give 1 milion $ to every hindu's family who died and to play on their loss and turn it into hatred for Islam so that next time while the poor muslims in mumbai are sleeping he can get the hindu fanatics to attack. 

I think there is going to be muslim rebellion. Deccan mujahideen, Indian mujahideen... whats going on here. Anyone can explain? I think to avoid this great massive rebellion charges are being levelled against the poor Pakistanis occupied with terrorists on their western border to make sure a bad image is created of them and the real problem (A muslim rebellion in India) is avoided.


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## fatman17

*India's Antiterror Blunders *
Years of appeasing militants has made the problem worse.

By SADANAND DHUME

New Delhi

As the story of the carnage in Mumbai unfolds, it is tempting to dismiss it as merely another sorry episode in India's flailing effort to combat terrorism. Over the past four years, Islamist groups have struck in New Delhi, Jaipur, Bangalore and Ahmedabad, among other places. The death toll from terrorism -- not counting at least 119 killed in Mumbai on Wednesday and Thursday -- stands at over 4,000, which gives India the dubious distinction of suffering more casualties since 2004 than any country except Iraq.

The attacks highlight India's particular vulnerability to terrorist violence. But they are also a warning to any country that values what Mumbai symbolizes for Indians: pluralism, enterprise and an open society. Put simply, India's failure to protect its premier city offers a textbook example for fellow democracies on how not to deal with militant Islam.

The litany of errors is long. Unlike their counterparts in the West, or in East Asia, India's perpetually squabbling leaders have failed to put national security above partisan politics. The country's antiterrorism effort is reactive and episodic rather than proactive and sustained. Its public discourse on Islam oscillates between crude, anti-Muslim bigotry and mindless sympathy for largely unjustified Muslim grievance-mongering. Its failure to either charm or cow its Islamist-friendly neighbors -- Pakistan and Bangladesh -- reveals a limited grasp of statecraft.

*Finally, India's inability to modernize its 150-million strong Muslim population, the second largest after Indonesia's, has spawned a community that is ill-equipped to seize new economic opportunities and susceptible to militant Islam's faith-based appeal.*

To be sure, not all of India's problems are of its own making. In Pakistan, it has a neighbor founded on the basis of religion, whose government -- along with those of Iran and Saudi Arabia -- has long been one of the world's principal exporters of militant Islamic fervor.

Bangladesh also hosts a panoply of jihadist groups. As in Pakistan, public sympathy with the militant Islamic worldview forestalls any meaningful effort against those who regularly use the country as a sanctuary to plan mayhem in India. America's unsuccessful Pakistan policy -- too many carrots and too few sticks -- has also contributed to a fundamentally unstable neighborhood.

Nonetheless, the reflexive Indian response to most every act of terrorism is to apportion blame rather than to seek a solution that will prevent, or at least minimize, its recurrence. Even Indonesia -- a still-poor Muslim-majority nation where sympathy for militants runs deeper than it does in India -- has done an infinitely better job of recognizing that the protection of citizens' lives is any government's first responsibility. A superbly trained, federal antiterrorism force called Detachment 88 has ensured that country has not suffered a terrorist attack in more than three years.

By contrast, India's leaders -- who invariably swan around with armed guards paid for by the taxpayer -- can't even agree on a legal framework to keep the country safe. On taking office in 2004, one of the first acts of the ruling Congress Party was to scrap a federal antiterrorism law that strengthened witness protection and enhanced police powers.



The Congress Party has stalled similar state-level legislation in Gujarat, which is ruled by the opposition Hindu-nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party. And it was a Congress government that kowtowed to fundamentalist pressure and made India the first country to ban Mumbai-born Salman Rushdie's "Satanic Verses" in 1988.

The BJP hasn't exactly distinguished itself either. In 1999, the hijacking of an Indian aircraft to then Taliban-ruled Afghanistan led a BJP government to release three hardened militants, including Omar Sheikh Saeed, the former London School of Economics student who would go on to murder Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl.

More recently, the BJP, driven by tribal religious solidarity and a penchant for conspiracy theories, has failed to demand the same tough treatment for alleged Hindu terrorists as it does for Muslims. Minor parties, especially those dependent on the Muslim vote, compete to earn fundamentalists' favor.

In sum, the Indian approach to terrorism has been consistently haphazard and weak-kneed. When faced with fundamentalist demands, India's democratically elected leaders have regularly preferred caving to confrontation on a point of principle. The country's institutions and culture have abetted a widespread sense of Muslim separateness from the national mainstream. The country's diplomats and soldiers have failed to stabilize the neighborhood. The ongoing drama in Mumbai underscores the price both Indians and non-Indians caught unawares must now pay.

Mr. Dhume is a Washington-based writer and the author of "My Friend the Fanatic: Travels with an Indonesian Islamist" (Text Publishing, 2008).



Please add your comments to the Opinion Journal forum.


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## haviZsultan

Vinod2070 said:


> And don't pretend that you have any love for Indian Muslims. I know how many Pakistani forum members were celebrating when the Glasgow bomber turned out to be a brainwashed Muslim who happened to be born in India.
> 
> There was no care for Islam or Indian Muslims then, just happiness that other Muslims could be terrorists too.



Ummmm... our background is f4m there btw... so we have family there and some members of it have also died. I am worried naturally!

Likin yeah this is becoming just tit f4 tat... 

I think sleeping might be a great option as defence.pk has provided enough entertainment for the day.


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## IceCold

Vinod2070 said:


> And don't pretend that you have any love for Indian Muslims. I know how many Pakistani forum members were celebrating when the Glasgow bomber turned out to be a brainwashed Muslim who happened to be born in India.
> 
> There was no care for Islam or Indian Muslims then, just happiness that other Muslims could be terrorists too.



Love or no love, you guys need to get out of this blaming Pakistan thing every time something happens. Bring your own house in order before shifting the entire blame on another country and finding an easy escape goat. 

And its not about being a Muslim anymore, it had more to do with being a Pakistani or not, like one member said earlier i was responding too, that Pakistan and Pakistanis are involved in terrorism worldwide, so definitely Pakistanis will respond to it, because the terrorist turned out to be from India, or our you implying that just because he as a muslim, the only way our love for the muslims in India can be shown is if we dont call a bad apple bad? wow nice logic Vinod.


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## haviZsultan

Nihat said:


> nop , do as you like



No but this is entertaining dont you think?


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## IceCold

Bull said:


> How do you believe the Indian inv agencies when they blame a hindu and not when they blame a Muslim?
> 
> *@#.



How many times did they blame a hindu anyways?


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## Nihat

Prachi Jataniya of CNN-IBN reports that 3 youths have been apprehended by Police .


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## nitesh

nitesh said:


> Turkish couple let off by terrorists for being Muslims-India-The Times of India
> Turkish couple let off by terrorists for being Muslims



Enough of this "terrorists have no religion" they indeed have religion


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## Bull

salman nedian said:


> I am asking to prove the Pakistani involvement in Mumbai attacks.



And what do you offer? You are helpless, you cant do nothing. The same way i cant do anything everytime my govt fails me, other than vote better next time.


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## Halaku Khan

fatman17 said:


> *There are a lot of very, very angry Muslims in India, Ms. Fair said. The economic disparities are startling and India has been very slow to publicly embrace its rising Muslim problem. You cannot put lipstick on this pig. This is a major domestic political challenge for India*.



Well, its not the sensible Muslims who are angry. Just look at the election turn-out in Kashmir, where the vast majority of people defied the separatists and terrorists to come out and vote. 

It's just the fanatics that can't help being in a permanent state of anger. That's true not just in India but also in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

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## Bull

Asim Aquil said:


> I'm bored...


 
So can i say get a life ?



Asim Aquil said:


> They even canceled the ICL world series. Lol Pakistan win by default for being the highest in the standings. Wait a while and the Indian investigators will blame Inzamam to have engineered all this to win the ICL world series.



Pakistani Poor Sarcasm at its worst.



Asim Aquil said:


> IPL may not happen either. The English are in Dubai, Ausies won't come.



Its postopned, but will happen.
This is India, bot some tribal la la land.

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## Nihat

Halaku Khan said:


> Well, its not the sensible Muslims who are angry. Just look at the election turn-out in Kashmir, where the vast majority of people defied the separatists and terrorists to come out and vote.
> 
> It's just the fanatics that can't help being in a permanent state of anger. That's true not just in India but also in Pakistan and Bangladesh.



Thats very well put there Halaku.

Secularism does not mean giving a free pass to terrorists.


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## Vinod2070

IceCold said:


> Love or no love, you guys need to get out of this blaming Pakistan thing every time something happens. Bring your own house in order before shifting the entire blame on another country and finding an easy escape goat.
> 
> And its not about being a Muslim anymore, it had more to do with being a Pakistani or not, like one member said earlier i was responding too, that Pakistan and Pakistanis are involved in terrorism worldwide, so definitely Pakistanis will respond to it, because the terrorist turned out to be from India, or our you implying that just because he as a muslim, the only way our love for the muslims in India can be shown is if we dont call a bad apple bad? wow nice logic Vinod.



Well it cuts both ways. Good that you admitted that it is national interest first.

The concern for Islam or Indian Muslims is only a ruse to be used when it will benefit the national interests.

But I do agree that there is a lot that needs to be done by India. They terrorist did have some local support.

But if they turn out to have been foreigners, we should first try to enlist the support of the government concerned in trying to root them out. If that is not successful, the government should do what needs to be done to make the culprits pay and pay dearly.

Only if the masterminds cower for their life, will the scourge be eliminated. No point in just killing these brainwashed idiots.


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## nitesh

situation is normal guys no firing any where as rumored just now


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## Nihat

Railway commissioner says that there has been NO firing , all rumours.

Atleast they had the sense to apologize for creating FAKE drama


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## Bull

Asim Aquil said:


> We've killed more terrorists in the past 8 years than the whole world combined. We kill our terrorists not collaborate with them and send them to India. These terrorists masquerading as jihadis don't like Pakistanis so much if you haven't been reading the news this past 8 years.



We ever since '47 we have been saying your country is infested with Islamic terrorist and you a nd your govt said NO. Now you said you have killed the most. Where did all those killing happen? Right inside your borders. So did they land from moon, NO!!! These guys were there from begining.

Your country wre hosts to these terrorists and its juts now you habe started moving against them. So dont blame us for piting figures against your land. Most of the terrorist attacks in US and UK had Pakistanis directly or indirectly supporting, providing training and logistics.

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## pkpatriotic

*Mumbai attacks: Reaction from international leaders to terrorism, Bombay India - Telegraph*
*World leaders, including George W Bush, Barack Obama and Gordon Brown, have condemned the terrorist attacks by gunmen in Mumbai, India (formerly known as Bombay), in which at least 101 people have been killed and 287 wounded.*

*By Daily Telegraph Reporter 
27 Nov 2008*

"*President Bush *offers his condolences to the Indian people and the families of the innocent civilians killed and injured in the attacks in Mumbai" - George W Bush, the US President, in a White House statement

"*President-elect Obama *strongly condemns today's terrorist attacks in Mumbai," said a statement by Brooke Anderson, Obama's spokeswoman on national security. These coordinated attacks on innocent civilians demonstrate the grave and urgent threat of terrorism. The United States must continue to strengthen our partnerships with India and nations around the world to root out and destroy terrorist networks. We stand with the people of India." - Barack Obama, the US President-Elect, in a statement

"These outrageous attacks in Mumbai will be met with a vigorous response. I have sent a message to Prime Minister Singh that the UK stands solidly with his government as they respond, and to offer all necessary help. Urgent action is underway to offer every possible protection to British citizens in the region." - *Gordon Brown*, the Prime Minister

"Today's attacks in Mumbai which have claimed many innocent victims remind us, yet again, of the threat we face from violent extremists. I condemn these attacks unreservedly. Our thoughts are with the families and friends of those killed and injured. The UK and India will continue their joint efforts to counter the actions of terrorists." - *David Miliband*, the Foreign Secretary

"This kind of terrorism is unforgivable, extremely despicable and vicious. I feel strong resentment and deeply condemn it. Japan is with the Indian people who are fighting against terrorism and we will cooperate with the Indian government." - *Taro Aso*, the Prime Minister of Japan

"We are concerned about the loss of life and consider that acts of terrorism of this type are harmful to the whole international order and are a challenge to humanity." - *Dmitry Medvedev*, the President of Russia

*"Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani while strongly condemning the incidents of violence in Mumbai has expressed deep sorrow over the loss of precious lives." - Yousaf Raza Gilani, the Prime Minister of Pakistan, in a statement *

"Whichever group has perpetrated this attack, they are cowards, absolute cowards, and murderers. This cowardly attack on India's stability, peace and democracy reminds us all that international terrorism is far from defeated, and that we must all maintain our vigilance. We stand ready to assist India in any way it needs right now." - Kevin Rudd, the Prime Minister of Australia

"This is a cowardly act, it's indiscriminate, it's a terrorist act, it's insulting democracy, and it takes as victims and casualties innocent people." - Simon Crean, the acting Foreign Minister of Australia

*Pakistan condemned the attacks with President Asif Ali Zardari "stressed the need for taking strict measures to eradicate terrorism and extremism from the region."*

*In a separate message Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani also "strongly condemned the terrorist attacks."*


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## haviZsultan

Nihat said:


> It does make some Muslims vulnerable I must say but a vast majority don't care - The rich ones have a business to carry on , the middle class have other daily life issues to deal with and the lower Income group Muslims worry more about how the next meal will come.



Ya thats the thing. This makes it more likely for there to be backlash against muslims... always for any such attack there has always been a reprisal against muslims. Even the blasts by indian mujahideen. Check around and u'll see murders of muslims rose dramatically after the one in gujrat and recent one in assam. 



> btw - I think you had asked about my name , I'm a guy and my name is Nihat Karim , where Nihat means - servant of God.



That is like so very very surprising since you have that big teddy bear on your profile...

I did'nt know guys like teddy bears. Though i did sleep with one till 5 yrs old thoh... 

Anyone here likes teddies? Comeon they're fluffy and all... 

BTW U really f4m delhi? Our uncles family (that Indians left alone!) in delhi lives in Model town phase II. Rest either died f4 being muslims in 47 or ran off to Pak lol. Actually even after 47 we've had some issues with our relatives in hydz and lucknow coming under attack and stuff. My cousin salma was raped and killed for converting a hindu guy.

How u living there yet? Must be tough eh? 
Neva know what cud hit ya?


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## Vinod2070

Halaku Khan said:


> Well, its not the sensible Muslims who are angry. Just look at the election turn-out in Kashmir, where the vast majority of people defied the separatists and terrorists to come out and vote.
> 
> It's just the fanatics that can't help being in a permanent state of anger. That's true not just in India but also in Pakistan and Bangladesh.



Yes. Local factors are just exploited to get the recruits brainwashed.

It is a global problem and the brainwashed recruits are pouring in from everywhere.

That Kafeel guy did not blow up the glasgow airport because he did not get a decent education or job. He was well educated in India, gt a decent job in Britain and still misused both to wreak the havoc on those who fed him and hosted him.

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## IceCold

Bull said:


> We ever since '47 we have been saying your country is infested with Islamic terrorist and you a nd your govt said NO. Now you said you have killed the most. Where did all those killing happen? Right inside your borders. So did they land from moon, NO!!! These guys were there from begining.
> 
> Your country wre hosts to these terrorists and its juts now you habe started moving against them. So dont blame us for piting figures against your land. Most of the terrorist attacks in US and UK had Pakistanis directly or indirectly supporting, providing training and logistics.



BS. Yes they are coming from outside, does Afghanistan ring a bell. Understand some basics before ranting out all loud, unstable neighbors have serious repercussions on its neighbors and that too where the border is disputed and one is unable to fully seal it. The same stands true for Pakistan. 

UK terror plot was successfully breached with the help of Pakistan, do i need to remind you that. DO i need to also remind you that the guy involved was a UK national and not a Pakistani, his ancestors being from Pakistan does not make him a Pakistani, he was born there, lived his whole life there, so if anyone that has to be blamed is the UK government itself and not Pakistan. Same stands for other places.

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## Nihat

dimension117 said:


> Ya thats the thing. This makes it more likely for there to be backlash against muslims... always for any such attack there has always been a reprisal against muslims. Even the blasts by indian mujahideen. Check around and u'll see murders of muslims rose dramatically after the one in gujrat and recent one in assam.
> 
> 
> 
> That is like so very very surprising since you have that big teddy bear on your profile...
> 
> I did'nt know guys like teddy bears. Though i did sleep with one till 5 yrs old thoh...
> 
> Anyone here likes teddies? Comeon they're fluffy and all...
> 
> BTW U really f4m delhi? Our uncles family (that Indians left alone!) in delhi lives in Model town phase II. Rest either died f4 being muslims in 47 or ran off to Pak lol. Actually even after 47 we've had some issues with our relatives in hydz and lucknow coming under attack and stuff. My cousin salma was raped and killed for converting a hindu guy.
> 
> How u living there yet? Must be tough eh?
> Neva know what cud hit ya?



Talking of Backlash , really I think it's a crime to belong to the lower class , irrespective of any religion . Any petty theft or mischief is blamed on any slum Dwellers , be it a Dalit from MP, Migrant from UP or Bihar , Bengali domestic help or Muslims.

About that Teddy thing , can you tell me how to remove it - I don't like to have avtars , someone just stuck it there. 

I live in Saket in Delhi , pretty far off from Model town , I think thats north Delhi. 

Life's been easy for me here , I schooled from a public school , graduated from IIT-D in telecommunications and don't have a single muslim friend , all pucca dilli walla punjabi guys.

But I'm extremely sorry to hear about hate crimes your family had to suffer.


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## Blossom

Bull said:


> We ever since '47 we have been saying your country is infested with Islamic terrorist and you a nd your govt said NO. Now you said you have killed the most. Where did all those killing happen? Right inside your borders. So did they land from moon, NO!!! These guys were there from begining.
> 
> Your country wre hosts to these terrorists and its juts now you habe started moving against them. So dont blame us for piting figures against your land. Most of the terrorist attacks in US and UK had Pakistanis directly or indirectly supporting, providing training and logistics.



o please! now this is getting on my nerves .you can't be so persistant and certain when blaming and misjudging Pakistan or Pakistanis for that matter ok!
did you happen to know those Terrorists personally.hah! i guess you do.
come up with somthing more authentic and contemplative!
its ludicrous!

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## Chanakya.10

nitesh said:


> Turkish couple let off by terrorists for being Muslims-India-The Times of India
> Turkish couple let off by terrorists for being Muslims



And still people would say that they were Hindu.........


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## IceCold

pkpatriotic said:


> *Mumbai attacks: Reaction from international leaders to terrorism, Bombay India - Telegraph*
> *World leaders, including George W Bush, Barack Obama and Gordon Brown, have condemned the terrorist attacks by gunmen in Mumbai, India (formerly known as Bombay), in which at least 101 people have been killed and 287 wounded.*
> 
> *By Daily Telegraph Reporter
> 27 Nov 2008*
> 
> "*President Bush *offers his condolences to the Indian people and the families of the innocent civilians killed and injured in the attacks in Mumbai" - George W Bush, the US President, in a White House statement
> 
> "*President-elect Obama *strongly condemns today's terrorist attacks in Mumbai," said a statement by Brooke Anderson, Obama's spokeswoman on national security. These coordinated attacks on innocent civilians demonstrate the grave and urgent threat of terrorism. The United States must continue to strengthen our partnerships with India and nations around the world to root out and destroy terrorist networks. We stand with the people of India." - Barack Obama, the US President-Elect, in a statement
> 
> "These outrageous attacks in Mumbai will be met with a vigorous response. I have sent a message to Prime Minister Singh that the UK stands solidly with his government as they respond, and to offer all necessary help. Urgent action is underway to offer every possible protection to British citizens in the region." - *Gordon Brown*, the Prime Minister
> 
> "Today's attacks in Mumbai which have claimed many innocent victims remind us, yet again, of the threat we face from violent extremists. I condemn these attacks unreservedly. Our thoughts are with the families and friends of those killed and injured. The UK and India will continue their joint efforts to counter the actions of terrorists." - *David Miliband*, the Foreign Secretary
> 
> "This kind of terrorism is unforgivable, extremely despicable and vicious. I feel strong resentment and deeply condemn it. Japan is with the Indian people who are fighting against terrorism and we will cooperate with the Indian government." - *Taro Aso*, the Prime Minister of Japan
> 
> "We are concerned about the loss of life and consider that acts of terrorism of this type are harmful to the whole international order and are a challenge to humanity." - *Dmitry Medvedev*, the President of Russia
> 
> *"Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani while strongly condemning the incidents of violence in Mumbai has expressed deep sorrow over the loss of precious lives." - Yousaf Raza Gilani, the Prime Minister of Pakistan, in a statement *
> 
> "Whichever group has perpetrated this attack, they are cowards, absolute cowards, and murderers. This cowardly attack on India's stability, peace and democracy reminds us all that international terrorism is far from defeated, and that we must all maintain our vigilance. We stand ready to assist India in any way it needs right now." - Kevin Rudd, the Prime Minister of Australia
> 
> "This is a cowardly act, it's indiscriminate, it's a terrorist act, it's insulting democracy, and it takes as victims and casualties innocent people." - Simon Crean, the acting Foreign Minister of Australia
> 
> *Pakistan condemned the attacks with President Asif Ali Zardari "stressed the need for taking strict measures to eradicate terrorism and extremism from the region."*
> 
> *In a separate message Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani also "strongly condemned the terrorist attacks."*



No matter we condemn it or not, we will still be blamed for it. IMO the best course of action here for us will be that(i don't know if that's possible) but Pakistan should try to push for an international investigation of this incident because that needs to be done in order to bring out the truth whether Pakistan is involved or not. If Indians are all that sure about Pakistan's involvement, they shouldn't hesitate for an external investigation to occur because this way Pakistan will be exposed to the whole world and will not be able to bear the international pressure and will therefore have to close down these so called terrorist cells (provided there are any in the first place).

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## Blossom

the Fact is that both Pakistan and India ,at the same time,is infested with Terrosists.millitants etc.who WE are supposed to blame then?
India? Ladies and Gentleman.India is being attacked by pakistani Terrosrists trained by the Goverment and vice a cersa.
its Hypothectical!

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## pkpatriotic

*Commandoes get down from a chopper to the roof of a house owned by Israelis in Colaba, Mumbai, India, Friday, Nov. 28, 2008. Security forces assaulted a Jewish center in Mumbai where Muslim militants were believed holed up with possible hostages Friday, with black-clad commandos dropping from a Indian helicopter as sharpshooters opened fire on the five-story building.*



*Indian army soldiers climb onto their vehicle outside Oberoi Trident Hotel where suspected militants are holed up in Mumbai, India, Friday, Nov. 28, 2008. Masked Indian commandos dropped from helicopters Friday onto the roof of a Jewish center in Mumbai where Muslim militants were holed up, possibly with hostages, as sharpshooters kept up a steady stream of fire at the five-story building.*



Indian army soldiers patrol outside Oberoi Trident Hotel where suspected militants are holed up in Mumbai, India, Friday, Nov. 28, 2008. The well-coordinated strikes by small bands of gunmen starting Wednesday night left the city shell-shocked, but the sporadic gunfire and explosions at the Taj Mahal and Oberoi hotels dwindled overnight, indicating the siege might be winding down.

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## haviZsultan

Nihat said:


> Talking of Backlash , really I think it's a crime to belong to the lower class , irrespective of any religion . Any petty theft or mischief is blamed on any slum Dwellers , be it a Dalit from MP, Migrant from UP or Bihar , Bengali domestic help or Muslims.
> 
> About that Teddy thing , can you tell me how to remove it - I don't like to have avtars , someone just stuck it there.
> 
> I live in Saket in Delhi , pretty far off from Model town , I think thats north Delhi.
> 
> Life's been easy for me here , I schooled from a public school , graduated from IIT-D in telecommunications and don't have a single muslim friend , all pucca dilli walla punjabi guys.
> 
> But I'm extremely sorry to hear about hate crimes your family had to suffer.



Ya man thats near gayatri hospital or sumthin... its way north... but really nice area! 

I think the issue with Muslims of India is that not all of you r not pushed into the situation where u have to rethink where ur loyalty lies and how welcome or accepted you really are in India. We Were pushed into this situation and generally the people that escape here sort of tend to blame the muslims of India for not doing anything to protect them when they were being attacked by fanatics or police was doing an injustice with them. They tend to be the most patriotic citizens of Pakistan as well. 

Actually we escaped india for the sole reason that there was a bias in India (u know this very well) Only difference is u haven't suffered it directly. Our loyalty is always in question etc and we were seen as pro pakistani and less pro Indian (cauz our stand on kashmir is different etc) but that is'nt much to make a major change. Issue comes when u are directly affected and ur relatives are killed and u dont get the justice u deserve. Police and courts both are completely corrupt in India and have absolutely betrayed us. I've lived in hyderbad afzalganj with my cousiin and in lucknow our khandaan is based in chowk. So ya guess i knw india well..... a little atleast! My cousin shifted here f4m hydz in 2003 so yaa...... no more hangin round afzalganj n all f4 me... 

Actually Gandhi may have been a great man but same hindu fanatics killed him and these same people have always been threat to united india. No matter what religion a person belongs to fanaticism and terrorism is not a good thing. Hindus and muslims must live in peace but being oppressed in the name of this peace is absolute bullshit and it is we who have to decide this.

Change ur display by going to user cp and change pic i think...


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## Blossom

ofcourse nobody can be ruthless enough to motivate or back'em up for their homicide activities( i mean ordinary people indians/Pakistani).The matter in question is,Pakistanis are blamed everytime.On and Off whatever happens,Indians just don't need any time to even think,investigate and then conclude.They have the conclusion already!

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## haviZsultan

ilovef16 said:


> o please! now this is getting on my nerves .you can't be so persistant and certain when blaming and misjudging Pakistan or Pakistanis for that matter ok!
> did you happen to know those Terrorists personally.hah! i guess you do.
> come up with somthing more authentic and contemplative!
> its ludicrous!



Ofcourse he knew them personally. RAW is directly sponsering terrorism on Pakistani soil. For example this article that proves it so obviously many indians would be agents for them and stuff right:



> Arrested militants name RAW, Afghan agency for funding
> 
> Wednesday October 22, 2008 (1118 PST)
> 
> LAHORE: The three arrested members of a militants gang especially deputed by Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan have disclosed that RAW has been funding suicide bomb attacks in Pakistan and that the Indian agency has funnelled Rs 680 million through its links with the Afghan secret agency.
> 
> The gang of three persons have brazenly admitted that they belong to the group of persons who had been deputed to destabilise democratic Pakistan with the sole purpose of enforcement of Shariah in the country.
> 
> Operators of an intelligence agency, working beyond the call of their duty, came into contact with a source ready for a tip-off against a reward and led to the arrest of Khurram Ishtiaq, Ghulam Mustafa and Shamim. The persons had been working under Qari Hussain, second-in-command to Baitullah Mehsud. All the three had been arrested on Aug 13 this year while they were on the prowl for a target. The militants had been arrested red-handed as they possessed complete suicide kits, including two jackets and 70kg of explosives and detonators.
> 
> The accused were hardened militants and took a lot of time to break in and make confessions. They revealed that Qari Hussain had been working to help three adjutantsFarukh Usman alias Shahjee, Tayyab alias Baba; Ustad, the trainer to destabilise democratic government.
> 
> Qari Hussain, the leader, prepares suicide bombers and dispatches them throughout Pakistan. He also manages funds for the splinter groups from RAW which works in collusion with the Afghan intelligence agency RAM.
> 
> Farukh Usman works as Qaris deputy and runs the sub-setup to carry out attacks in Lahore in particular and Punjab in general. He was the mastermind of suicide attacks on FIA building, Naval War College, Model Town, Lahore High Court and PAF bus in Sargodha, the investigation has revealed.
> 
> Tayyab alias Baba mainly deals with Rawalpindi/Islamabad. He was the man behind blasts at Aabpara Market and Marriott Hotel. The third person known only as Ustad is an expert of making bombs. He is said to be of Indian origin and he works with a vengeance. He is the man who leads suicide bombers to the marked site of the blast.
> 
> The investigation revealed that there are two sub-teams: three persons of one team work under Ustad. Two of the arrested personsShahmim Alam alias Sohail alias Kashif alias Uncle and Khurram Ishtiaq alias Ibrahimhave been active members of the TTP and worked under direct guidance of Ustad.
> 
> Shamim was the facilitator. His task was to distribute funds to suicide bombers at the behest of Qari Hussain and Tayyab@Baba. Being educated and a well-dressed civilian-look-alike, he was assigned another important job of providing reconnaissance of the target area.
> 
> He possesses the canny ability of mixing up with urbanites. Khurram Ishtiaq alias Ibrahim is a well-trained militant. His job is to harbour suicide bombers at a secret venue till they are led to the area of operation to carry out the job. The third person of this setup, Sajid, is a resident of Ali Khel, Waziristan. It is not certain whether his services were utilized or made his escape good.
> 
> Another team which works under Farrukh Usman alias Shahjee includes Bablu, Rehan, Ghulam Mustafa @Asif (the third arrested person) and Abdul Rahim. Bablus assignment is to provide explosives at the nick of time when the suicide bombers have been finally prepared to perform the sacred feat.
> 
> Ghulam Mustafa and Abdul Rahim, a diehard Jehadi serve as guards and take care that none of perpetrators shows his back and become a deserter. In that case, there is only one choice left and that too leads one to heavens.
> 
> Former boss of the intelligence agency, Tariq Lodhi, had recommended a reward and commendation for the team who apprehended the culprits but they say their new boss Shoaib Suddle turned it down on the grounds that agency operators just did their job and no reward should be given for performing duty.
> 
> The team members disclosed that they had arrested two prime targets during Pervaiz Musharraf regime and they both had a head money of $5 million each but the reward money was shared by the two premier agencies instead passing it on to the individuals who had arrested them on their own initiative.
> 
> The team has long been working on the intelligence of militants but they got the culprits apprehended through a middleman who is ready to divulge more but only if he is rewarded for the catch.
> 
> The team claims that it could reach out to Qari Hussain and his gang and thus eliminate the danger of suicide blasts in Pakistan by 90 percent. Talking to our sources on the condition of not divulging their names, they said, We neither have free hand nor enough resources to break the hornets nest.
> 
> End.

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## haviZsultan

ilovef16 said:


> ofcourse nobody can be ruthless enough to motivate or back'em up for their homicide activities( i mean ordinary people indians/Pakistani).The matter in question is,Pakistanis are blamed everytime.On and Off whatever happens,Indians just don't need any time to even think,investigate and then conclude.They have the conclusion already!



Just do exactly what they do... go for it! Hit RAW. We all know every blast or every bullet fired in India will be blamed on Pakistan or Bangladesh so whats the issue here.

U c infact India is clearly supporting militants in our country and giving them supply of heavy weapons and providing training to suicide bomb people in Pakistan etc. The article is prood of illegal indian activity and how India is involved in major genocide of pakistanis in tribal regions hiding behind the cloak of taliban

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## Flintlock

Updates:

-the FBI is coming to India to help in the investigations

-The Israelis have opened a crisis centre

-The EU is sending a plane to take Europeans home.


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## Awesome

nitesh said:


> This was said by MARCOS who were engaging the terrorists very first not by NSG who have taken over long back


They were talking live, an hour back.


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## fatman17

*Clues suggest homegrown terrorists in India attack*

By PAISLEY DODDS

LONDON (AP) &#8212; The attack on India's financial capital bears all the trademarks of al-Qaida &#8212; simultaneous assaults meant to kill scores of Westerners in iconic buildings &#8212; but clues so far point to homegrown Indian terrorists, global intelligence officials said Thursday.

Spy agencies around the world were caught off guard by the deadly attack, in which gunmen sprayed crowds with bullets, torched landmark hotels and took dozens of hostages.

"We have been actively monitoring plots in Britain and abroad and there was nothing to indicate something like this was about to happen," a British security official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of his work.

Britain is the former colonial power in India and Pakistan and closely monitors terrorist suspects in those countries.

In some ways, the attack illustrated just how fluid terror tactics have become since Sept. 11 &#8212; and how the threat has become more global. Al-Qaida's leaders on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border still provide inspiration but groups are becoming increasingly local.

The group that claimed responsibility, Deccan Mujahideen, was unknown to global security officials. The name suggested the group was Indian.

One of the suspects reportedly called an Indian television station, speaking the main Pakistani language of Urdu, to demand the return of Muslim lands. That was a reference to Kashmir, territory claimed by both India and Pakistan.

But Ajai Sahni, head of the New Delhi-based Institute for Conflict Management who has close ties to India's police and intelligence, said the attack was a departure from past assaults waged over Kashmir. Other such attacks had targeted Indian legislators, not Westerners.

Security officials said it was too soon to make a connection to Pakistan.

"It would be premature ... to reach any hard-and-fast conclusions on who may be responsible for the attacks, but some of what we're seeing is reminiscent of past terrorist operations undertaken by groups such as Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed," a U.S. counterterrorism official said on condition of anonymity, referring to Pakistani militant groups linked to al-Qaida who have fought Indian troops in Kashmir.

Another British security official told the AP on condition of anonymity that the attack doesn't look to have been directed by al-Qaida's core leadership, which has been weakened by the deaths of several leaders and key operatives in recent months.

Al-Qaida's core leadership is believed to be fewer than 100 people now, said Rohan Gunaratna, author of "Inside Al-Qaida" and a terrorism expert at the International Center for Political Violence and Terrorism Research in Singapore.

The British security official said it appeared the attack was inspired by Islamic extremist ideology and al-Qaida propaganda popular among radicalized youths. Many of the attackers in the Mumbai assault were young.

Gunaratna said he believed the group that carried out Wednesday's attack was the Indian Mujahideen, responsible for past attacks in Mumbai.

The word "Deccan" refers to a plateau in southern India. "Mujahideen" refers to holy warriors.

"The earlier generation of terrorist groups in India were mostly linked to Pakistan," Gunaratna told the AP. "But today we are seeing a dramatic change. They are almost all homegrown groups. ... They are very angry and firmly believe that India is killing Muslims and attacking Islam."

British-based Jane's Information Group said it thought the attackers could be Indian but that taking hostages suggested a wider anti-Western agenda.

"Until now, terrorist attacks in India have targeted civilians, often in busy market or commercial areas, and in communally sensitive areas with the intention to foment unrest between Hindu and Muslim communities," said Urmila Venugopalan, Jane's South Asia analyst.

"This stands in contrast to the national issues that appeared to motivate Indian Mujahideen," Venugopalan said.

Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh blamed "external forces" but stopped short of blaming Pakistan. Both are nuclear-armed countries.

In September, a massive suicide truck bomb devastated the Marriott Hotel in the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, killing at least 54 people, including three Americans and the Czech ambassador.

"This type of terrorism is spreading, through Pakistan and now India, but we were all surprised by such a large-scale attack like this," said Wajid Hassan, Pakistan's High Commissioner in London. "This is no coincidence that this type of attack happened so soon after the bombing of the Marriott Hotel. People from all countries are being paid to fight this al-Qaida war. This is a war that goes beyond any nationality."

Sahni, however, said "very preliminary investigations and intelligence information would suggest that some groups based in Pakistan are the most likely.

"If there is Indian participation, it's most likely to be Students' Islamic Movement of India," he said, referring to a radical student group banned in India in 2001.

Indian intelligence officials were also investigating whether Mumbai's criminal underworld could be involved.

"It's a possibility," Sahni said. "When we say Mumbai underworld we're talking of Dawood Ibrahim."

Ibrahim is one of India's most wanted men and also the alleged mastermind behind bombings in Mumbai in 1993 that killed 257 people. He has reportedly fled Mumbai, and police now believe he lives in Pakistan. Pakistani officials have denied this. 

Associated Press writers Pamela Hess in Washington, Gregory Katz and David Stringer in London, Lee Keath in Cairo and Muneeza Naqvi in New Delhi contributed to this report.


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## Imran Khan




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## dr.umer

*Indian papers flail intelligence failures in Mumbai attacks​*
28 Nov 2008

NEW DELHI (AFP)  Indian newspapers on Friday slammed the government and intelligence agencies for failing to prevent the Mumbai attacks, saying the country's anti-terrorism forces were ill-prepared for the militants.

"Mumbai Maimed, Nation Shamed" read the banner headline in the Mail Today, which said the country's intelligence agencies "had no clue of the impending attack" despite spending huge amounts of money on anti-terror measures.

An editorial in the Hindustan Times reflected the tone of much of the coverage, saying that "losing our best officers to frontal assaults is a brave but utterly hopeless way of fighting modern terror.

"It is time to learn... that global terror cannot be fought without transforming our national security."

The Times of India editorial, titled "It's War -- Mumbai attacks challenge the nation to fight back," also questioned why anti-terror agencies had failed.

"How well do we run them, how well-resourced are they, and is there proper coordination among them to maximise and collate information?" it said.

Noting the time lost in deploying special forces, the paper said: "The point is that even in circumstances where personnel and infrastructure were available, planning and execution are shockingly poor."

The Indian Express poured scorn on the secret services.

*"What are the intelligence mechanisms that failed to pick up a terrorist plan with as much micro-planning as this one?" it said.

"What can be done so that this does not recur? Because without working through this question, there can be no closure."*

*The paper also launched a personal attack on the Indian prime minister via a front-page opinion piece, saying there was "a special responsibility on Manmohan Singh's shoulders."

"In 1991, he liberated our economy. Over the past five years, he modernised our foreign policy," it said.*

"Partly distracted by that, and partly by the politics of his coalition, he has not been able to make the slightest difference to our internal security. He has to now start fixing that."

Other banner headlines exclaimed "Terror Uninterrupted," "Fear, Pain, Anger" and "Mumbai At War."

The Hindu newspaper took a caustic tone, saying that India's "fractious and often bitter religious politics has not helped in keeping religiously motivated terrorism in check."

"The strengthening of the intelligence machinery with increased manpower and more sophisticated equipment, which is promised every time a terrorist attack takes place, brooks no further delay," it said.

All papers honoured the 15 or more security personnel were killed, including the head of Mumbai's anti-terror squad.

"An officer and a gentleman lays down his life," read one tribute.


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## Imran Khan

pakistani PM offer manmohen to send ISI chef for help in investigations

Indian PM sees &#8216;external linkages&#8217; in Mumbai attacks 
* At least 125 people including 9 foreigners killed, 315 wounded 
* Americans, French, Israelis and Canadians among those held hostage or trapped 
* Lashkar-e-Tayyaba denies involvement in attacks 
* Indian cabinet lashes out at home minister, intelligence agencies


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## Chanakya.10

Initial information suggests Pak hand in Mumbai attack: Pranab
28 Nov 2008, 1417 hrs IST, PTI

JODHPUR: India on Friday said preliminary information suggested that "some elements" in Pakistan were responsible for the terror strikes in Mumbai. 

*New Delhi is expected to take up the matter with Islamabad when Prime Minister Manmohan Singh speaks with Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari later in the day. *

"According to preliminary information, some elements in Pakistan are responsible for Mumbai terror attacks," External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee told reporters here. 

"*Proof cannot be disclosed at this time,*" he said, noting that Pakistan had assured India that it will not allow use of its territory for launching attacks against this country. 

Pakistan had given this assurance at a meeting Singh and Zardari had on the margins of the United Nations General Assembly session on September 24. 

In an address to the nation, the Prime Minister had yesterday blamed elements outside the country for the terror strikes in Mumbai and warned that India will not tolerate the use of territory of its neighbours for attacks in the country. 

India will take up "strongly with our neighbours that the use of their territory for launching attacks on us will not be tolerated and that there would be a cost if suitable measures are not taken by them." 

Singh had said the "well-planned and well-orchestrated attacks, probably with external linkages, were intended to create a sense of panic by choosing high profile targets and indiscriminately killing foreigners."


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## Imran Khan

*Situation Update 

At Taj: Fresh firing 
Trident completely clear of terrorists: Report 
PM to talk to Zardari about attacks 
At Trident: Foreigners evacuated 
NSG suffered casualties in the operations 
Ten terror attacks rock Mumbai 
More &#187;*


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## Flintlock

*Mumbai gunmen 'British-born'*

1 hour ago

Some of the gunmen involved in the Mumbai attacks are believed to be *British-born Pakistanis*, it was reported.
*
Indian news channel NDTV reported that "British citizens of Pakistani origin" were among the attackers.*

A Foreign Office spokeswoman said:* "We have seen the media reports but we are not aware of anything giving any credence to those reports at the moment."*

Meanwhile, Foreign Secretary David Miliband has expressed sympathy with the family of Andreas Liveras, the one Briton confirmed dead after terrorist attacks in Mumbai.

Mr Miliband said: "This is a callous, inhuman and indiscriminate attack on people of all races and all religions.

"This attack in Mumbai is an attack on all of us because democracy in India is vibrant and because Mumbai is one of the world's most diverse cities.

"The most terrible thing is that we do have one confirmed British fatality.

"Obviously our hearts go out to the family of the victim and we are determined to do all we can to support those who are currently in hospital."

Prime Minister Gordon Brown said the terrorist attacks were met by "shock and outrage" around the world and pledged all possible UK support for the Indian authorities in dealing with it.

Mr Brown spoke on Thursday after visiting staff at a Foreign Office emergency response centre, which he said had already taken more than 800 calls.

The Press Association: Mumbai gunmen &#39;British-born&#39;


----------



## haviZsultan

fatman17 said:


> *Clues suggest homegrown terrorists in India attack*
> 
> By PAISLEY DODDS
> 
> LONDON (AP)  The attack on India's financial capital bears all the trademarks of al-Qaida  simultaneous assaults meant to kill scores of Westerners in iconic buildings  but clues so far point to homegrown Indian terrorists, global intelligence officials said Thursday.
> 
> Spy agencies around the world were caught off guard by the deadly attack, in which gunmen sprayed crowds with bullets, torched landmark hotels and took dozens of hostages.
> 
> "We have been actively monitoring plots in Britain and abroad and there was nothing to indicate something like this was about to happen," a British security official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of his work.
> 
> Britain is the former colonial power in India and Pakistan and closely monitors terrorist suspects in those countries.
> 
> In some ways, the attack illustrated just how fluid terror tactics have become since Sept. 11  and how the threat has become more global. Al-Qaida's leaders on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border still provide inspiration but groups are becoming increasingly local.
> 
> The group that *claimed responsibility*, *Deccan Mujahideen*, was unknown to global security officials. The name suggested the group was Indian.
> 
> One of the suspects reportedly called an Indian television station, speaking the main Pakistani language of Urdu, to demand the return of Muslim lands. That was a reference to Kashmir, territory claimed by both India and Pakistan.
> 
> But Ajai Sahni, head of the New Delhi-based Institute for Conflict Management who has close ties to India's police and intelligence, said the attack was a departure from past assaults waged over Kashmir. Other such attacks had targeted Indian legislators, not Westerners.
> 
> Security officials said it was too soon to make a connection to Pakistan.
> 
> "It would be premature ... to reach any hard-and-fast conclusions on who may be responsible for the attacks, but some of what we're seeing is reminiscent of past terrorist operations undertaken by groups such as Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed," a U.S. counterterrorism official said on condition of anonymity, referring to Pakistani militant groups linked to al-Qaida who have fought Indian troops in Kashmir.
> 
> Another British security official told the AP on condition of anonymity that the attack doesn't look to have been directed by al-Qaida's core leadership, which has been weakened by the deaths of several leaders and key operatives in recent months.
> 
> Al-Qaida's core leadership is believed to be fewer than 100 people now, said Rohan Gunaratna, author of "Inside Al-Qaida" and a terrorism expert at the International Center for Political Violence and Terrorism Research in Singapore.
> 
> The British security official said it appeared the attack was inspired by Islamic extremist ideology and al-Qaida propaganda popular among radicalized youths. Many of the attackers in the Mumbai assault were young.
> 
> Gunaratna said he believed the group that carried out Wednesday's attack was the Indian Mujahideen, responsible for past attacks in Mumbai.
> 
> The word "Deccan" refers to a plateau in southern India. "Mujahideen" refers to holy warriors.
> 
> "The earlier generation of terrorist groups in India were mostly linked to Pakistan," Gunaratna told the AP. "But today we are seeing a dramatic change. They are almost all homegrown groups. ... They are very angry and firmly believe that India is killing Muslims and attacking Islam."
> 
> British-based Jane's Information Group said it thought the attackers could be Indian but that taking hostages suggested a wider anti-Western agenda.
> 
> "Until now, terrorist attacks in India have targeted civilians, often in busy market or commercial areas, and in communally sensitive areas with the intention to foment unrest between Hindu and Muslim communities," said Urmila Venugopalan, Jane's South Asia analyst.
> 
> "This stands in contrast to the national issues that appeared to motivate Indian Mujahideen," Venugopalan said.
> 
> Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh blamed "external forces" but stopped short of blaming Pakistan. Both are nuclear-armed countries.
> 
> In September, a massive suicide truck bomb devastated the Marriott Hotel in the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, killing at least 54 people, including three Americans and the Czech ambassador.
> 
> "This type of terrorism is spreading, through Pakistan and now India, but we were all surprised by such a large-scale attack like this," said Wajid Hassan, Pakistan's High Commissioner in London. "This is no coincidence that this type of attack happened so soon after the bombing of the Marriott Hotel. People from all countries are being paid to fight this al-Qaida war. This is a war that goes beyond any nationality."
> 
> Sahni, however, said "very preliminary investigations and intelligence information would suggest that some groups based in Pakistan are the most likely.
> 
> "If there is Indian participation, it's most likely to be Students' Islamic Movement of India," he said, referring to a radical student group banned in India in 2001.
> 
> Indian intelligence officials were also investigating whether Mumbai's criminal underworld could be involved.
> 
> "It's a possibility," Sahni said. "When we say Mumbai underworld we're talking of Dawood Ibrahim."
> 
> Ibrahim is one of India's most wanted men and also the alleged mastermind behind bombings in Mumbai in 1993 that killed 257 people. He has reportedly fled Mumbai, and police now believe he lives in Pakistan. Pakistani officials have denied this.
> 
> Associated Press writers Pamela Hess in Washington, Gregory Katz and David Stringer in London, Lee Keath in Cairo and Muneeza Naqvi in New Delhi contributed to this report.



My problem is when someone takes responsibility of the attack how are they still blaming Pakistan. Is'nt this just retarded?

The same thing has happened for each and every blast by the Indian mujahideen. The Indians just dont want to admit that there are muslims who have suffered and continue to suffer indian bias discrimination and hatred because of which they are forced into such brutal and extreme paths. For example the babri masjid mumbai riots gujrat genocide and the current ongoing genocide in Kashmir stands as proof of this illegal indian activity. I am not supporting the terrorists but I am saying that maybe if India works to stop the hindu fanatics rather than pointing across the border terrorist attacks can be reduced by atleast 70%. Like what problem to indians have anyway? You dont even have retards like jamat e Islami in your land providing constant support to muslim terrorists. There is no reason for there to be terrorism in India if muslims are treated properly. Infact not only muslims but also all other religions and massacres like current one of christians in orrissa and of sikhs in 84... these problems can be avoided. 

Why India is only acting like secular country but physically doing nothing to prove it?

Indians are unwilling to understand these things. Blaming a foreign naton for home grown problems will not solve the issue in any way. 

This video (made by sweet pakistani guy like me ) speaks of what happens to muslims in India:






Now for this video and other videos where Nuz also contributed hindu fanatics want to kill me. Should'nt that be proof that there is a great hatred for muslims and there are attempts to hide the truth about what happens to them in India?


----------



## Imran Khan

*Two explosions at Taj, gun battle resumes *
NDTV Correspondent 
Friday, November 28, 2008, (Mumbai)
Operations against the terrorists at three separate locations -- Taj, Oberoi-Trident and Nariman House -- has entered a critical phase. 

There have been two fresh, huge blasts at the Taj hotel and firing has resumed. NSG says three-four terrorists are in Taj Heritage wing with few hostages. 

Two NSG commandos have rescued hostages from Trident hotel where one-two terrorists are still holed up. 

NSG Commandos have evacuated the people from Trident hotel and they surrounded the Oberoi wing.

Army has said that the NSG is in contact with one terrorist in the old wing of Taj and that the operation in Taj is in final stages.

Army has also said that some guests may still be inside the Taj.

There is report of one injured militant inside the Taj hotel.

According to NSG Director General: "One injured terrorist is still inside Taj hotel. The stage seems to be set for a final operation there and the media has been asked to refrain from doing any live broadcasts from outside the hotel."

Earlier on Friday, three explosions in three hours happened inside the Nariman House in Colaba, breaking the eerie silence.

The building was still in darkness when the Army closed in. Snipers took position at Nariman House. About 100 commandos went inside and helicopters circled above the building to monitor the situation.

Two to three terrorists are still in Nariman House but there are no more hostages inside, as per the reports.

At least 125 have been killed in the Mumbai encounter, including 14 policemen and six foreigners and 327 people have been injured.

Places attacked:


Trident Hotel, Taj Hotel, Nariman House, Wadi Bunder, Cama hospital, GT hospital, VT station, Bootleggers pub, Girgaum and Metro cinema


----------



## haviZsultan

imran khan said:


> *Two explosions at Taj, gun battle resumes *
> NDTV Correspondent
> Friday, November 28, 2008, (Mumbai)
> Operations against the terrorists at three separate locations -- Taj, Oberoi-Trident and Nariman House -- has entered a critical phase.
> 
> There have been two fresh, huge blasts at the Taj hotel and firing has resumed. NSG says three-four terrorists are in Taj Heritage wing with few hostages.
> 
> Two NSG commandos have rescued hostages from Trident hotel where one-two terrorists are still holed up.
> 
> NSG Commandos have evacuated the people from Trident hotel and they surrounded the Oberoi wing.
> 
> Army has said that the NSG is in contact with one terrorist in the old wing of Taj and that the operation in Taj is in final stages.
> 
> Army has also said that some guests may still be inside the Taj.
> 
> There is report of one injured militant inside the Taj hotel.
> 
> According to NSG Director General: "One injured terrorist is still inside Taj hotel. The stage seems to be set for a final operation there and the media has been asked to refrain from doing any live broadcasts from outside the hotel."
> 
> Earlier on Friday, three explosions in three hours happened inside the Nariman House in Colaba, breaking the eerie silence.
> 
> The building was still in darkness when the Army closed in. Snipers took position at Nariman House. About 100 commandos went inside and helicopters circled above the building to monitor the situation.
> 
> Two to three terrorists are still in Nariman House but there are no more hostages inside, as per the reports.
> 
> At least 125 have been killed in the Mumbai encounter, including 14 policemen and six foreigners and 327 people have been injured.
> 
> Places attacked:
> 
> 
> *Trident Hotel, Taj Hotel, Nariman House, Wadi Bunder, Cama hospital, GT hospital, VT station, Bootleggers pub, Girgaum and Metro cinema*



Oberoi hotel nayee tha kya... ?

Hey how did i become senior member suddenly?


----------



## opinion786

*Top officials had links with Malegaon blast suspect*

MUMBAI: One of the prime culprits of Malegaon bomb blast, Dayanand Pandey alias Sudhakar Dwivedi, used to secretly film those who visited his ashram, including policemen, top intelligence officials, businessmen and bureaucrats, investigations revealed on Thursday. Police sources said Pandey&#8217;s laptop computer and a flash drive were seized and had been sent for analysis to the Forensic Science laboratory in Bangalore. Police found Pandey had been filming all his visitors in Kanpur and the Indian-held Kashmir through a camera and stored the recordings in his laptop computer, that he had owned since 2005. The computer also has photographs of Pandey with several religious leaders, politicians and bureaucrats. After his arrest, public prosecutor Ajay Nisar had told the court that *Pandey had directed Lieutenant Colonel Shrikant Prasad Purohit &#8211; the arrested Indian army officer &#8211; to arrange explosives for the Malegaon explosion*. Pandey had also arranged a meeting between Purohit and Ramji, another accused who is wanted in the case. Pandey is believed to have told the ATS that he had joined the Air Force wing of NDA in 1989 but had dropped out in 1990. Police claimed to have recovered a boarding pass of Kingfisher Airlines, a cheque book, a pass book, an ATM card, a debit card, a passport and a pen drive from Pandey. *Police said that Pandey was in constant touch with Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur* while Ajay Rahirkar, treasurer of Abhinav Bharat, provided a &#8216;huge sum&#8217; of money to Pandey. app

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


----------



## Halaku Khan

Report from lobby of Hotel Taj:

----------------------------------------------

'They continued to fire at everyone'

November 28, 2008 | 14:31 IST

Twenty-year-old Varun Salvi* is in training to become a front office executive at the Taj Hotel in Mumbai. On the night of November 26, he was on his way to work the 11 pm shift when he learned of the terrorist attacks. Able to establish cell phone contact with a colleague trapped inside the hotel, he gives us his story and a blow-by-blow account of how the events that night transpired.

I left home at 9:45 pm by BEST bus on Wednesday night, November 26; I had to show up for my shift by 10:30 pm. When the bus neared VT Station at around 10:20 pm, a mob of people ran towards us in the street, shouting at the driver to stop and have all the passengers disembark because the area was under a terrorist attack.

The street was milling with people and police and we all soon became aware that something serious was underway. I got off the bus and walked towards Crawford Market; at Mohammad Ali Road I was able to flag down a taxi and head back home.

The first thing I did upon reaching my house safely was to call Siddharth*, a colleague at the hotel, who had been operating the 2 pm to 11 pm shift before me. Up until now I had no idea that the Taj was under siege from terrorists and I was horrified when he told me what had transpired and that he was still trapped inside, along with several other members of staff and hotel guests.

At about 9:30 pm, Siddharth, who works in the main lobby, said he heard screaming from the front porch of the hotel, which is where the main entrance is located. When he and a couple of employees rushed to the spot to investigate, the scene that greeted their eyes made their blood run cold. Six to seven young men carrying heavy-duty guns and grenades were indiscriminately firing at hotel guests and employees on the porch and then proceeded to barge into the lobby. They continued to fire at everyone in the lobby, lobbing grenades left and right as they stormed in, destroying everything -- according to eye-witnesses, there is practically nothing left of the Taj's famed ground-floor coffee-shop, Shamiana.

By this time, Siddharth had retreated into the lobby and taken cover under furniture as best he could. The terrorists then divided themselves up into three smaller groups and moved deeper into the recesses of the hotel -- some of them headed into the heritage wing, while the others stormed the tower and the kitchen. They opened fire on several staff members in the kitchen and I heard from Siddharth that three to five chefs were killed, among them Kaizad Kamdin, a friend who had attended the same college as me. His parents live in Pune and he was working in Mumbai -- my prayers and thoughts are with his family at this difficult time. According to other witnesses, the terrorists have also seized the engineering department in the basement of the hotel and are using it as a control room.

As soon as the terrorists had left the main lobby, the staff, showing great presence of mind and risking their own safety, ushered guests who had managed to survive the attack into the back rooms of the hotel like the men's gym locker room and the laundry. Siddharth and a few of his colleagues guided some guests into the house-keeping department and they remained there through the night, praying that their hiding place would not be discovered. That was when he received my call, at 11:45 pm. After that phone call, I was unable to establish contact with him till the next morning and I spent an anxious night wondering if he would be alright.

I got to speak to him at only 11:30 am the next morning. Finally, at 10:30 am, the police had been able to open up the staff entrance of the hotel around the back and slowly, those trapped inside had made their way out, among them Siddharth. Several shaken hotel guests who managed to survive the ordeal have been transferred to the Taj Wellington Mews in Colaba, where staff continue to report to work.

I escaped the whole ordeal by less than two hours and I will forever be grateful to God for that. I have no idea as yet how many more of my colleagues have lost their lives. I have heard that our two doormen at the main porch were among the first to fall prey to the firing and God knows how many more hapless employees succumbed to this horrific attack.

*Names changed to protect privacy.


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## opinion786

Well today they found Mauritius I.D cards and dollars. Will Mauritius be blamed next?


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## Chanakya.10

I don't think India should blame Pakistan for this.....
It will help Pakistani separatist elements to unify, if India goes against Pakistan........

IN MY OPINION it is an ISI gameplan.....
India will backlash on Pakistan for this.....and this will cool down separatists' movements in Pakistan, and thus ISI's agenda fo this complete to save their nation.......Well one more conspiracy theory........


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## Imran Khan

dimension117 said:


> Oberoi hotel nayee tha kya... ?


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## Imran Khan

> Hey how did i become senior member suddenly



you already more then 1 year here so you should be senior


----------



## Munir

The indian goverment is handling as worse as possible... No solutions but pointing to others... Arrogance.


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## haviZsultan

Chanakya.10 said:


> I don't think India should blame Pakistan for this.....
> It will help Pakistani separatist elements to unify, if India goes against Pakistan........



See so u admit. U r supporting seperatist elements and the talibani terrorists here in Pakistan and dont want them to unite against Indian terrorism and want to keep making fools out of them by making them think they are on holy war or sumthing. Good job! Atleast there are some Indians who manage to speak the truth instead of saying whatever comes to their mouths or the first thing they read from india times. 

Thank you for your nice gesture. We will not forget it. 

RAW is actually getting out of control. Anyone have ny suggestions to tame this organization? Anyone?


----------



## Patriot

Munir said:


> The indian goverment is handling as worse as possible... No solutions but pointing to others... Arrogance.


I'd say our intelligence agencies are far better then Indian's Intelligence agencies.


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## haviZsultan

imran khan said:


> you already more then 1 year here so you should be senior



I am? But you have more posts than me?


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## opinion786

Chanakya.10 said:


> And still people would say that they were Hindu.........



Actually, a simple post-mortem of the 4-5 terrorist shot dead, could easily determine if they were hindu or muslims.


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## newlife

> Actually, a simple post-mortem of the 4-5 terrorist shot dead, could easily determine if they were hindu or muslims.



It is not the case of hindu or muslim....


It is the case of Pakistani involvement...


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## Chanakya.10

dimension117 said:


> See so u admit. U r supporting seperatist elements and the talibani terrorists here in Pakistan and dont want them to unite against Indian terrorism and want to keep making fools out of them by making them think they are on holy war or sumthing. Good job! Atleast there are some Indians who manage to speak the truth instead of saying whatever comes to their mouths or the first thing they read from india times.
> 
> Thank you for your nice gesture. We will not forget it.
> 
> RAW is actually getting out of control. Anyone have ny suggestions to tame this organization? Anyone?





Thanks!!!! I have a suggestion.....

Let us trade all our ISI and RAW agents from each others countries....Many problems would go......


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## haviZsultan

saadahmed said:


> I'd say our intelligence agencies are far better then Indian's Intelligence agencies.



Are you crazy. That is completely untrue. RAW's activities are actually hidden and shrouded in a cloak of secracy. Cant u c its perfect disguise. No one can ever understand that India is actually supporting the tehreek e taliban and has bought baitullah mehsud... 

RAW is a very dangerous agency... ISI is weak and pathetic. It cant even gather proper intelligence in tribal areas and intelligence errors are so common. RAW however is much more dangerous.


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## Flintlock

*Hasan Gafoor - Chief Police Commissioner: *

- 1 Terrorist still in Taj

- One boat has been found with a Satellite Phone on board. 

- The Oberoi has been sanitized, but a second round is being made. 

- A large number of people have been killed in Trident/Oberoi. The police are not releasing the death toll as of now.


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## nitesh

opinion786 said:


> Actually, a simple post-mortem of the 4-5 terrorist shot dead, could easily determine if they were hindu or muslims.



hmmm
check this

Turkish couple let off by terrorists for being Muslims-India-The Times of India


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## Chanakya.10

And i did not say RAW is behind Pakistan bombings......... u drew ur own conclusion......

Well whatever make u happy.......


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## Chanakya.10

opinion786 said:


> Actually, a simple post-mortem of the 4-5 terrorist shot dead, could easily determine if they were hindu or muslims.



The terrorists called a TV station and said _Allah Hafis_.....

They did not shoot a Turkish couple and let them go, coz they were muslims........

So now u know that they were not Hindus but Muslims......


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## haviZsultan

Chanakya.10 said:


> Thanks!!!! I have a suggestion.....
> 
> Let us trade all our ISI and RAW agents from each others countries....Many problems would go......



Brilliant idea! 

We should call this project project milap meaning "exchange"

Let us do a trade here! 
U can even take Nadeem taj. He comes for free. 
This is brilliant way to improve bilateral ties actually...



Lets party now!


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## Munir

dimension117 said:


> See so u admit. U r supporting seperatist elements and the talibani terrorists here in Pakistan and dont want them to unite against Indian terrorism and want to keep making fools out of them by making them think they are on holy war or sumthing. Good job! Atleast there are some Indians who manage to speak the truth instead of saying whatever comes to their mouths or the first thing they read from india times.
> 
> Thank you for your nice gesture. We will not forget it.
> 
> RAW is actually getting out of control. Anyone have ny suggestions to tame this organization? Anyone?



I do not support any organisation...  But isn't it strange that people are not looking at what happened? Both politic and journalism are part of the shouting without valuable variables. Facts... Whether groups need to unite or not... It is not our problem what happens in India. Pakistan has its own problem and surely no a smaller one. You do remember Lal Masjad and the usual bombings here and there... The killing of ex-SSG commander wasn't exactly different with the killing of the head of anti terrorism in Mumbay. So instead of pointing fingers and ignoring reality both nations should start a inquiry...

For a nation that uses the words worlpower, oldest democrac on earth it is different to understand that they hardly predicted this, they cannot take control, they blame outsiders and they miss basic logic.

Maybe it is an internal problem and India is falling into civil war.I still do not understand why politicians and journalists were a lo more quiet when Gujarat happened... Probably cause burning muslims is something less important.


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## haviZsultan

Chanakya.10 said:


> The terrorists called a TV station and said _Allah Hafis_.....
> 
> They did not shoot a Turkish couple and let them go, coz they were muslims........
> 
> So now u know that they were not Hindus but Muslims......



No maybe they just did that to prove they were muslims but were secretly somone else. Haven't you wondered about that yet?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Awesome

Bull said:


> We ever since '47 we have been saying your country is infested with Islamic terrorist and you a nd your govt said NO. Now you said you have killed the most. Where did all those killing happen? Right inside your borders. So did they land from moon, NO!!! These guys were there from begining.
> 
> Your country wre hosts to these terrorists and its juts now you habe started moving against them. So dont blame us for piting figures against your land. Most of the terrorist attacks in US and UK had Pakistanis directly or indirectly supporting, providing training and logistics.


Oh they are sponsored with Indian money and from Indian consulates.

You reap what you sow. You've cajoled and nourished terrorist outfits all your lives. Thats why now even in India there is a terror incident every month.

What was that? Indian Army bombed Indian civilian trains?


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## opinion786

newlife said:


> It is not the case of hindu or muslim....
> 
> 
> It is the case of Pakistani involvement...



Today they found Mauritius I.D cards and dollars .... is Mauritius involved?

The ATS Karare and specialist encounter salasker ... were both shot dead even before the official commando/army raid started. ATS Karare was heading investigation against Sadwi Pagiya Singh & malagaon bombs .... so is BJP involved?

They even traced links to serving Lt colonel (to arrange for explosives) .... so is indian army involved?


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## Chanakya.10

Munir said:


> Maybe it is an internal problem and *India is falling into civil war.*I still do not understand why politicians and journalists were a lo more quiet when Gujarat happened... Probably cause burning muslims is something less important.



Sir again i request u to do some fact finding....... Indian people are under attack from foreign elements.... y would we go into a civil war.... India is too big to go into a civil war............. 
Our *Unity in Diversity* will never let it happen....... Ya, but we cannot stop u from thinking so....... Enjoy.....


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## haviZsultan

Chanakya.10 said:


> Sir again i request u to do some fact finding....... Indian people are under attack from foreign elements.... y would we go into a civil war.... India is too big to go into a civil war............. our Unity in Diversity will never let it happen....... Ya, but we cannot stop u from thinking so....... Enjoy.....



I think the name Indian mujahideen and deccan mujahideen etc suggest that there is about to be a civil war between muslims and hindus in India. The oppressed muslims in India who have become sick of Indian bias and discrimination it would seem have actually risen up. 

Dont you think?


----------



## Awesome

opinion786 said:


> Today they found Mauritius I.D cards and dollars .... is Mauritius involved?
> 
> The ATS Karare and specialist encounter salasker ... were both shot dead even before the official commando/army raid started. ATS Karare was heading investigation against Sadwi Pagiya Singh & malagaon bombs .... so is BJP involved?
> 
> They even traced links to serving Lt colonel (to arrange for explosives) .... so is indian army involved?




Now slowly Indians are having to bite their tongue and eat their words! Slowly they realize that they can't keep pinning this on Pakistan. 

They were Indians!

The terrorists are Indians, admit already!


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## Chanakya.10

opinion786 said:


> The ATS Karare and specialist encounter salasker ... were both shot dead even before the official commando/army raid started. ATS Karare was heading investigation against Sadwi Pagiya Singh & malagaon bombs .... so is BJP involved?



Hahaaa... Man what incise conclusion.....

124 people were killed by BJP just to kill Mr. Kakre......wow.... carry on...


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## Flintlock

saadahmed said:


> I can't believe our fellow educated Indian members have started blaming ISI without any proof whatsoever.I knew Indians are dumb but this is not even funny.



Its far better than concluding that "Indians are dumb".


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## Chanakya.10

dimension117 said:


> I think the name Indian mujahideen and deccan mujahideen etc suggest that there is about to be a civil war between muslims and hindus in India. The oppressed muslims in India who have become sick of Indian bias and discrimination it would seem have actually risen up.
> 
> Dont you think?



It can happen.....but what about so precise training, grenades????? boat with sattelite phone???? cell phone with call to pakistan????? and yet to be released proofs????

There can be some local brainwashed muslims, I agree.

But i am talking about the masterminds......They are somewhere else.... Dont u agree??


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## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> Now slowly Indians are having to bite their tongue and eat their words! Slowly they realize that they can't keep pinning this on Pakistan.
> 
> They were Indians!
> 
> The terrorists are Indians, admit already!



Erm, wouldn't that indicate that they were Mauritians.

In any case, IDs mean nothing - they are most likely fake. 

The police will check with Mauritian government if any of the terrorists were Mauritian citizens.


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## Munir

Chanakya.10 said:


> Sir again i request u to do some fact finding....... Indian people are under attack from foreign elements.... y would we go into a civil war.... India is too big to go into a civil war.............
> Our *Unity in Diversity* will never let it happen....... Ya, but we cannot stop u from thinking so....... Enjoy.....



I should do fact finding? India divided Pakistan in the past (BD), India has pretty much regular problems with BD, India is sponsoring terrorism in Sri Lanka (how convenient to call them Tamil Tigers and not Tamil Terrorists and forcing SL to buy outdated Indian weapons), India is failing to understand UN conventions about Kashmir (Democracy my a). Indian muslims are disriminated (Gujarat). And do take time how Sikhs were pressured and terrorized. Do find also about how almost every state wants to move away from Dilli...

It is not stop thinking but you as a poster not able to use a clean mirror. 

The problemd with Indian posters like you is that you do say something but without background, facts or understanding... Please enlighten me why India is a unity... And that even before everyone is over this you already know who did it...


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## Flintlock

*UPdate:*

Indian PM has asked ISI Chief to come to India to share information.


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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> Erm, wouldn't that indicate that they were Mauritians.
> 
> In any case, IDs mean nothing - they are most likely fake.
> 
> The police will check with Mauritian government if any of the terrorists were Mauritian citizens.


There is sea access from Mauritius

Remember the authorities were looking for a mothership?

What is the Indian coast gaurd doing if its not tracking every ship coming from Karachi?

They came from Mauritius! There are plenty of Indians there. Smuggling weapons would be easy, who would suspect boats coming from there?


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## Chanakya.10

Munir said:


> I should do fact finding? India divided Pakistan in the past (BD), India has pretty much regular problems with BD, India is sponsoring terrorism in Sri Lanka (how convenient to call them Tamil Tigers and not Tamil Terrorists and forcing SL to buy outdated Indian weapons), India is failing to understand UN conventions about Kashmir (Democracy my a). Indian muslims are disriminated (Gujarat). And do take time how Sikhs were pressured and terrorized. Do find also about how almost every state wants to move away from Dilli...
> 
> It is not stop thinking but you as a poster not able to use a clean mirror.
> 
> The problemd with Indian posters like you is that you do say something but without background, facts or understanding... Please enlighten me why India is a unity... And that even before everyone is over this you already know who did it...




*
I cannot argue with a person whose daily source of knowledge is Rupee News...*


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## Munir

Flintlock said:


> Erm, wouldn't that indicate that they were Mauritians.
> 
> In any case, IDs mean nothing - they are most likely fake.
> 
> The police will check with Mauritian government if any of the terrorists were Mauritian citizens.



Well, in the past your nation plantes fake Pak id's on people... And those people were often Kashmiri abducted and killed without reason or trial... The reliability of your nation is lower then anything.

India is even abducting childs that were walking around with goats... 

For a superpower India is a bit...


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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> *UPdate:*
> 
> Indian PM has asked ISI Chief to come to India to share information.


See now thats called playing nice.

I'm sure Pakistan would help.


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## Imran Khan

Chanakya.10 said:


> Hahaaa... Man what incise conclusion.....
> 
> 124 people were killed by BJP just to kill Mr. Kakre......wow.... carry on...



why not who many hindu daid when train burn at gujraat after that 7000 muslims killing by your lovely bjp lol


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## Awesome

I think it was pretty much clear from these ICL matches and the massive support Pakistanis drew. The Indian Muslims came wearing Shalwar Kameez and the Muslim cap, waving the Pak flag, to make a bold statement that they are with Pakistan.


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## haviZsultan

Chanakya.10 said:


> It can happen.....but what about so precise training, grenades????? boat with sattelite phone???? cell phone with call to pakistan????? and yet to be released proofs????
> 
> There can be some local brainwashed muslims, I agree.
> 
> But i am talking about the masterminds......They are somewhere else.... Dont u agree??



Yes they must be somewhere in India sitting happily laughing at you guys for having blamed Pakistan... Why dont you understand that it is not possible for Pakistanis to orchestrate this sort of thing. This is too big for even any intelligence agency. Getting them into india killing hundreds, knowing locations where to strike and where they will find foreigners. This is worthy of only people who have knowledge of internal situation. 

well enough f4 amusement... this is an old post i made on this thread. These are my views on the selected topic... and i am off to sleep... i love this forum... all that is needed is some women so we can party.... 



> My problem is when someone takes responsibility of the attack how are they still blaming Pakistan. Is'nt this just retarded?
> 
> The same thing has happened for each and every blast by the Indian mujahideen. The Indians just dont want to admit that there are muslims who have suffered and continue to suffer indian bias discrimination and hatred because of which they are forced into such brutal and extreme paths. For example the babri masjid mumbai riots gujrat genocide and the current ongoing genocide in Kashmir stands as proof of this illegal indian activity. I am not supporting the terrorists but I am saying that maybe if India works to stop the hindu fanatics rather than pointing across the border terrorist attacks can be reduced by atleast 70&#37;. Like what problem to indians have anyway? You dont even have retards like jamat e Islami in your land providing constant support to muslim terrorists. There is no reason for there to be terrorism in India if muslims are treated properly. Infact not only muslims but also all other religions and massacres like current one of christians in orrissa and of sikhs in 84... these problems can be avoided.
> 
> Why India is only acting like secular country but physically doing nothing to prove it?
> 
> Indians are unwilling to understand these things. Blaming a foreign naton for home grown problems will not solve the issue in any way.
> 
> This video (made by sweet pakistani guy like me ) speaks of what happens to muslims in India:
> 
> [url="
> 
> 
> 
> - Broadcast Yourself.[/url]
> 
> Now for this video and other videos where Nuz also contributed hindu fanatics want to kill me. Should'nt that be proof that there is a great hatred for muslims and there are attempts to hide the truth about what happens to them in India?



Officially the deccan mujahideen a local Indian group has taken responsibility for the attack. The terrorists in India would be sitting happily laughing at what is going on and the way that always a foreing nation is blamed.

I am off to sleep... wow what a day... this forum is addictive...


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## opinion786

Chanakya.10 said:


> Hahaaa... Man what incise conclusion.....
> 
> 124 people were killed by BJP just to kill Mr. Kakre......wow.... carry on...



Actually you concluded. I didn't conclude. 

If Pakistan can be suspected ....why not BJP and all those big names involved in Malagaon bomb blasts? Even serving army personnel.

The demands of those terrorist are yet not declared? Why is the government quiet? What are their demands? Till now ONLY theories by media.


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## Chanakya.10

imran khan said:


> why not who many hindu daid when train burn at gujraat after that *7000* muslims killing by your lovely bjp lol



Wasnt it 25000 or 50000...... plz google the exact nos imran Sir......


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## Chanakya.10

k i m goin....my exam on monday, everybody take care enjoy..........and have a healthy discussion........


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## Neo

Vinod2070 said:


> Guys, terrorism is a common scourge for both our nations.
> 
> Appeal to the more reasonable members to not make it a slanging match. It is not India Vs. Pak. It should be India and Pak Vs. these cowards.



Well said mate!


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## Chanakya.10

opinion786 said:


> Actually you concluded. I didn't conclude.



u said that but didnt conclude that???? so, u speak without reaching to any conclusion??????

k i gtg...tc


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## Imran Khan

Chanakya.10 said:


> k i m goin....my exam on monday, everybody take care enjoy..........and have a healthy discussion........



don't go buddy exams now cancel i read in news paper


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## Flintlock

*Its Official*

Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee says that Pakistani elements involved.

More Intelligence:

-Terrorists were well informed regarding the layout of the hotels 

-30 bodies found in Oberoi. They had been massacred in the "Kandahar" restaurant.


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## Neo

nitesh said:


> Munshi I lost you won. Now please don't respond to my posts. I want to talk to some rational person that you are not.
> 
> I am sorry for being blunt mods.



I think he asked a valid question. If its ok for hindus to use urdu/arabic word "shaheed", why not Ghazi and Jihad? 
I'd like to know..


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## haviZsultan

imran khan said:


> why not who many hindu daid when train burn at gujraat after that 7000 muslims killing by your lovely bjp lol



Exactly... u hit the spot imi... RAW and Indian hindu fanatics are a threat to the peace of the entire region. They must be stopped at all costs.

We Pakistani studs are willing to provide all the help necessary in this matter to the Indian government to ensure the terrorists are kept at bay and the peace of the sub continent is maintained. 

Infact we could also volunteer to take care and show love to the women Mumbai after this attack. They must be frightened... bet they need someone to comfort em right now...

Hey i met a gal f4m mum'z she has dark hair and is sorta white... that is'nt common in mumbai rite? Shes like really white as in like snow white... is that common for mumbai women? Not as in angrez white likin brownish-white but more white than brown...


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## Flintlock

Neo said:


> I think he asked a valid question. If its ok for hindus to use urdu/arabic word "shaheed", why not Ghazi and Jihad?
> I'd like to know..



What sort of a question is that? Why are Sanskrit words like "Guru" used in English but not "Shishya".


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## haviZsultan

Chanakya.10 said:


> u said that but didnt conclude that???? so, u speak without reaching to any conclusion??????
> 
> k i gtg...tc



Gudbye...


Remember if you have any issues with RAW or hindu fanatics or other terrorists we pakistani people are willing to help you out.


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## Neo

Kumar said:


> How a truck can enter in to a heavily guarded Marriott hotel..and explode in a right place to cause max causalities without hinderence! they also know exactly where to go and how.



We're dealing with AQ, a most professional and highly trained terrorist organisation with sufficient funds coming from Afghan narcotic imperial.
If they can hit the Twin Tower they can strike everywhere!


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## Imran Khan

sir respectfull please intruduce yourself in members intruduction threaad


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## Neo

newlife said:


> ...
> 
> What type of argument is this.....
> 
> u can only differentiate between JIYADTI and Ziyadti only when some one writes them...
> More over his voice was not clear ....u can't argue with that point...JIYADTI and Ziyadti



Listen to the rest of the tape, its clearly an Indian talking. Have you even been to Pakistan, do you even know how a Pakistani pronouces "z" (as in Zulu or Zebra)?


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## nitesh

Neo said:


> I think he asked a valid question. If its ok for hindus to use urdu/arabic word "shaheed", why not Ghazi and Jihad?
> I'd like to know..



Neo don't twist the things to un imaginable tangents. One word is used by people for the meaning it carries. Yes according to the meaning carried out by the terrorists of the word "jihad" it is good with them only.


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## Pk_Thunder

*PM calls Manmohan, condemns Mumbai mayhem*​ Updated at: 1358 PST, Friday, November 28, 2008
PM calls Manmohan, condemns Mumbai mayhem ISLAMABAD: Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has requested his Pakistani counterpart Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani to send Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) chief to India for exchange of information in connection with Mumbai attacks.

Prime Minister Gilani called his Indian counterpart Manmohan Singh and expressed profound grief over loss of lives in the wake of Mumbai terror attacks that left 130 people dead.

Prime Minister strongly denounced the acts of terrorism in Mumbai and assured Indian Premier of his full cooperation.

On behalf of the people and Government of Pakistan, I wish to express our deep shock and sorrow at last nights terrorist attacks in Mumbai, he said.

Indian premier on this occasion requested that ISI chief should be sent to India as cooperation in ongoing investigation into the Mumbai mayhem.

It may be recalled here that Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qurehsi is also scheduled to meet Manmohan Singh today.


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## Flintlock

*Update:*

Pakistan has agreed to send ISI Chief 
*
More Intelligence:*

Pakistani Army may have been involved in training the terrorists!!! (highly speculative)


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## Flintlock

*
Mumbai gunmen 'were British'*
Justin Davenport and Rashid Razaq
28.11.08*

TWO British-born Pakistanis are among the Mumbai terrorists, Indian government sources revealed today.
*
*They were captured with eight others after commandos stormed two hotels and a Jewish centre to free hostages.
*
Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh revealed that up to 25 terrorists were responsible for the series of bomb blasts and shootings that targeted tourists and foreign interests. At least 125 people have been killed and 327 injured. Security services in Britain were studying images of the attackers in an effort to identify them. Gordon Brown said today it was "too early" to reach any conclusions about British involvement.

Seven terrorists have been confirmed killed in gun battles with Indian special forces, which were still ongoing today in dramatic stand-offs at the three buildings. Between six to eight Islamic militants, professing to be part of the Deccan Mujahideen, were believed to be still holed-up, spread between the five-star Taj Mahal and Trident Oberoi hotels and the Nariman House Jewish centre.

*Three terrorists arrested at the Taj Mahal hotel have been officially identified as a Pakistani national and two Indians.* Indian authorities have not released any details about the two Britons and the Foreign Office has refused to confirm Indian television reports.
*
However, a team of Scotland Yard anti-terrorist detectives and negotiators are now on their way to Mumbai to assist. Another of the detainees is reported to be a Mauritian national.
*
Indian commandos have recovered credit cards and the militants' ID cards as well as seizing a vast arsenal of grenades, AK47 magazines, shells and knives.

Security sources have told the Standard that the attack is believed to be al Qaeda-linked and it is known that *dozens of British-born Pakistanis have travelled to Pakistan in recent years to train in its camps. *One source said recently: "The camps are full and many of the people inside are Brits."

Met officers were also interviewing passengers returning from Mumbai as they stepped off planes at Heathrow.

Around 100 hostages have been released from the Oberoi Trident in rescue operations while more than 400 people were brought out from the Taj Mahal last night.

Heavy gunfire was heard as commandos were dropped by helicopter on to the roof of the Jewish centre, where at least 10 hostages were still believed to be being held.

At the Oberoi hotel, groups of captives were rushed out and put in waiting cars, buses and ambulances. Among those released were a group of about 20 airline crew members, almost all Westerners. Briton Mark Abor, was rescued from the Oberoi after barricading himself in his room during the siege.

He said today: "I'm going home, I'm going to see my wife. These people here have been fantastic, the Indian authorities, the hotel staff. I think they are a great advertisement for their country".British lawyer Mark Abell, 51, who spoke to BBC Radio 4's Today programme as he was trapped in his hotel room at the Oberoi yesterday, has also been freed.

Mr Abell broke down as he recalled the moment when he had been standing in the lobby next to a group of Japanese businessmen as he checked in. Moments later the gunmen burst in and at least one of the businessman was shot dead. He told how he had spent the night listening to gunshots and explosions and described the scene of "carnage" when he was eventually led to safety by troops saying "there was blood and guts everywhere .. I was supposed to be working in Delhi but I think I have had more than my fair share of my business trip so I am looking forward to going home to see my family," he added.

A number of rescued Oberoi hostages were airline staff still wearing their Lufthansa and Air France uniforms when they emerged from the building. Seven South African crew members and seven Lufthansa staff were among the rescued foreigners. A they came out some carried luggage with Canadian flags, and two women were dressed in black abayas, traditional Muslim women's garments.

The group included one man dressed in chef's uniform who was holding a small baby.

Mumbai gunmen 'were British' | News


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## Imran Khan

Neo said:


> Listen to the rest of the tape, its clearly an Indian talking. Have you even been to Pakistan, do you even know how a Pakistani pronouces "z" (as in Zulu or Zebra)?



exelent sir tihis one i note sevral time when guy talking he use z same like my indian friends here in my company.


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## Neo

Flintlock said:


> What sort of a question is that? Why are Sanskrit words like "Guru" used in English but not "Shishya".



Can you confirm that shaheed is an official Hindi word?
I'm just curious.


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## shchinese

Flintlock said:


> Pakistani Army may have been involved in training the terrorists!!! (highly speculative)



could you please stop spamming here? provide solid evidence that can be reviewed by respectful 3rd party (e.g. UN) or you can just unsubscribe from this forum and RIP.

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## salman nedian

Flintlock said:


> What sort of a question is that? Why are Sanskrit words like "Guru" used in English but not "Shishya".



The question is relevant in a sense that the word Shaheed has a religious background. off course the background is Islamic so it doesnt make any sense to use this if u are willing to use these religious words than u have to believe on Islamic ideology.


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## shchinese

how about the other 6? Born in India and 100% native Indians right?

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## Flintlock

Neo said:


> Can you confirm that shaheed is an official Hindi word?
> I'm just curious.



Shahid is not a "Shuddha Hindi" word, but its borrowed from Arabic and used to indicate "martyr".

I don't think there is a Hindi word for "Martyr" (someone with good knowledge of Hindi please confirm this)

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## Neo

Is there a word for Jihad in Hindi?


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## Flintlock

Neo said:


> Is there a word for Jihad in Hindi?



No, not really.

If you want to literally translate "Holy War" into Hindi, it would be "Dharm Yuddh"


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## Neo

Thanks Flint.

The reason I asked is because Shaheed is a very delicate and honord word in Islam, it also happens to be one of the 99 names of Allah. To qualify to be called a "Shaheed" one atleast has to be a muslim.

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## third eye

We are moving tangentially.

Urdu was the official language in courts in N India till the mid / late 60's. In fact even today, FIR ( first info Reports) written by Delhi & UP Police ( I do not know of Punjab, Haryana & HP) contains urdu words spelt in Hindi.. e.g Hadsa - to describe an accident, Maut for death, Mauqa -e - wardat - scene of crime etc etc. This continues for the following reasons :

1. Udru words sometimes convey more in less .
2. Convention. 
3. These words / phrases have gained acceptability being in vogue for ages.
4. No reason to change.. its working fine.

Lastly, cinema too has served to cement usage of Urdu in our daily lives.

The word Shaeed does not necessarily have religious overtones. Bhagat Singh is called a Shaeed even now..there are so many more.

We should refrain from finding flaws where there are none.

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## Flintlock

Neo said:


> Thanks Flint.
> 
> The reason I asked is because Shaheed is a very delicate and honord word in Islam, it also happens to be one of the 99 names of Allah. To qualify to be called a "Shaheed" one atleast has to be a muslim.



Well in India its just a normal word for "martyr", so it doesn't have the religious connotation here.


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## Super Falcon

why india always claims pak in terorist attacks before any sufficent proof indian government use to claim terorist attacks in its terority to pakistan we are also suffering from terror why our govt claim that Indian RAW and indian govt is involved in terrorist attacks against pakistan we have to make a solid policy against indian agression


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## nitesh

*Commando ops at Oberoi over; hotel death toll 30*
Commando ops at Oberoi over; hotel death toll 30

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## Neo

third eye said:


> The word Shaeed does not necessarily have religious overtones. Bhagat Singh is called a Shaeed even now..there are so many more.
> 
> We should refrain from finding flaws where there are none.



Excellent post T.E.! 

Shaheed is an arabic word with a religious background, meant to specify a certain cause of death only. I can imagine that not every muslim (and there are 150 million in India only) would agree with your modest view.



> *Q.) The word "Shaheed" has been frequently used in the books, newspapers, and magazines for different types of people. I am sure that this word should have a specific connotation in the Islamic Terminology. I will be grateful if you please explain the true meaning of this word and the categories of persons for whom this term may be applied in Shariah. *
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> A.) In fact "Shaheed", is a specific term, used in the Holy Quran and Sunnah. It has certainly a specific meaning and *one should be careful before applying this term to a person and you should ascertain whether he is really qualified to be called a "Shaheed."*
> 
> According to Islamic Jurisprudence, "Shaheed" is of two kinds:
> 
> Shaheed in the real sense.
> Shaheed in the constructive sense.
> 
> *Shaheed in the real sense is a Muslim who has been killed during "Jihad" or has been killed by any person unjustly.* Such a person has two characteristics different from common people who die on their bed. Firstly, he should be buried without giving him a ritual bath. However, the prayer of the Janazah shall be offered on him and he shall also be given a proper kafin (burial shroud). *Secondly, he will deserve a great reward in the Hereafter and it is hoped that Allah Almighty shall forgive his sins and admit him to Jannah. *It is also stated in some of the traditions that the body of such a person remains in the grave protected from contamination or dissolution.
> 
> *As compared to this kind of "Shaheed" a Shaheed in a constructive sense is a person who has been promised by the Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam to get a reward of a Shaheed in the Hereafter but is not taken as Shaheed with regard to the rules of burial.* It means that the dead body has to be bathed like a dead body of any other person. The Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam has included in this category of Shaheed a large number of persons such as a person who has died in a Plague or who has died in an unexpected accident, like a fire or a traffic accident or who has been drowned in the water or a woman who has died during the delivery of her child etc.
> 
> Allama Jalaluddin Suyuti, a well-known scholar of Islamic disciplines, has collected all the Hadiths relating to this kind of Shaheed and has come to the conclusion that there are thirty categories mentioned by the Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam who can deserve to be called Shaheed in this sense. But in the normal course, the word "Shaheed" is applied only for the first kind. However, it is not prohibited to use the word for a person who falls in any of the categories mentioned in the second kind.
> 
> It is evident from the above discussion that the word "Shaheed" can only be used for a Muslim and cannot be applied to a non-Muslim at all. Similarly, the term cannot be used for a person who has been rightly killed as a punishment of his own offence.

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## nitesh

Times Now ticker says that Gen. Kiyani will accompany ISI chief? Why he needs to come?
Or a wrong news


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## Neo

nitesh said:


> Times Now ticker says that Gen. Kiyani will accompany ISI chief? Why he needs to come?
> Or a wrong news



ISI's political wing is clipped, to me it seems approperiate that Kiyani heads the delegation.


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## dr.umer

*Brit Link To Mumbai Terror?​*
November 28, 2008 

*As India points the finger of blame at Pakistan for the Mumbai terror attacks, there were reports some of the gunmen were British-born Pakistanis.*

*Indian news channel NDTV said "British citizens of Pakistani origin" were among the militants who launched attacks on two hotels, a Jewish centre and a railway station.*

*Prime Minister Gordon Brown told Sky's Adam Boulton in an exclusive interview that it is too early to say if there was any British involvement in the attacks.*

"There is so much information still to be discovered and made available. I have heard what Prime Minister Singh has said and I'll talk to him about it this morning," Mr Brown said.

"It is very important that we strengthen the co-operation between India and Britain in dealing with these instances of terrorist attacks."

*Sky's Emma Birchley, reporting from the FCO, said: "The Foreign Office say they are no prepared to comment on that [claim] - there is no evidence to support that. "They say it's still not clear who is behind these attacks."*

An unknown group calling themselves Deccan Mujahideen have claimed responsibility for the wave of terror in Mumbai, formerly known as Bombay.

But experts have not heard of the group and there was speculation they may be an off-shoot of the Indian Mujahideen or Lashkar-e-Toiba.

In the past, LET has fought Indian rule in Kashmir and has been linked to Pakistan's intelligence agency.

Reports said at least three of the apprehended militants were members of the group - but the organisation has denied any part in the attacks.

South Asia expert Rani Singh has told Sky News the terror attacks have all the hallmarks of the LET - and the Deccan Mujahideen could be a red herring.

"This attack has gone to a level we have not seen before," she said.

"To go for seven targets and cause this much confusion, use this must weaponry... means this is taking it to a very scary level."

In an address to the nation, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said the group that carried out the attacks "was based outside the country"

He added a warning to India's neighbours "that the use of their territory for launching attacks on us will not be tolerated".

*Mr Singh was due to meet Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari, according to the Press Trust of India.*

*But Pakistan has hit back at the accusations - with defence minister Ahmed Mukhtar saying his country "should not be blamed like in the past".*

*"This will destroy all the goodwill we created together after years of bitterness," he said.

"I will say in very categoric terms that Pakistan is not involved in these gory incidents."

An editorial in Pakistan's Daily Times newspaper said India should consider terror groups within their own borders.

"Ongoing investigations into some (past) terrorist attacks that were alternately blamed on Indian Muslims and Pakistan have shown that they were actually carried out by a Hindu terrorist network," the editorial said.

Ms Singh, who has been a frequent visitor to Kashmir and has been embedded with the border security force, said it is important both India and Pakistan work together to fight terrorism.

"We've started to see the anti-Pakistan rhetoric," she said.

"It's important to cut through that. I don't think it's a situation that can be easily contained.

"You might eliminate one group - but another will be trained and come up behind them."*


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## s90

*Pak PM agrees to send ISI chief to Delhi on Manmohan Singh's summons*

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has accepted a request from his Indian counterpart Manmohan Singh to send the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) chief to India for sharing of information related to the terrorist attack in Mumbai. 
The Prime Minster's spokesman Zahid Bashir said Singh had made a request to Gilani, asking him to send the ISI chief to India to "cooperate in the investigation of the Mumbai attacks and for sharing certain information"

Bashir said: "The Pakistani prime minister accepted this offer. The two sides will work out modalities for the visit of the Inter Services Intelligence chief which is expected to take place soon."


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## was

Flintlock said:


> *Update:*
> 
> Pakistan has agreed to send ISI Chief
> *
> More Intelligence:*
> 
> Pakistani Army may have been involved in training the terrorists!!! (highly speculative)


let,s say that they were directly from pakistan army
man i,m really sick of people who blame us for everything bad happens in their country.
we have sufferd from terrorism more than everyone else, there are blasts on daily basis ,we have to go to imf, we lost more than 1000 soldiers,our western border is fucked up,plus drone attacks


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## nitesh

Neo said:


> ISI's political wing is clipped, to me it seems approperiate that Kiyani heads the delegation.



Neo, sorry but I am curious why army chief has to come here. it is intelligence sharing. Sounds odd to me. But the news is in ticker. So not sure


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## third eye

Neo said:


> Excellent post T.E.!
> 
> Shaheed is an arabic word with a religious background, meant to specify a certain cause of death only. I can imagine that not every muslim (and there are 150 million in India only) would agree with your modest view.



Before we began to hate each other, it was an Indian word & used freely to describe anyone who fell fighting the british.

Even today, there are roads in delhi whose names start with " Shaeed..." after those who fell defending independent India.

Religion & Pol boundaries may divide us politically, culturally how diff are we ? We celebrate the same festivals, eat the same food,wear the same dresses, sing the same songs ( on marriages & at harvest time).. & so on.

After all , we once were close.


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## s90

> Brit Link To Mumbai Terror?



Maybe because these boys dont look to me typical jihadis,they were wearing western clothes


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## was

Whos behind Mumbai attacks?

Friday, November 28, 2008

By Farrukh Saleem

Analysis

ISLAMABAD: The Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) of the cabinet secretariat has failed; failed miserably. So have the Intelligence Bureau (IB), the Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA), the Joint Intelligence Committee, the Directorate of Air Intelligence, the Directorate of Navy Intelligence, the Joint Cipher Bureau, the Directorate of Signals Intelligence and the Defence Image Processing and Analysis Centre. All of Indias intelligence agencies have failed, and the most critical element in their collective failure is their overwhelming focus on Pakistan-based militant groups. So intense has been this focus that Indias home-grown militant entities have spread like wildfire all through Indias 2,973,190 sq km of land mass. According to South Asia Terrorism Portal, at least 231 of the Indias 608 districts are currently afflicted, at differing intensities, by various insurgent and terrorist movements.

Over the past five decades, India has been up against three distinct types of militancy: Left-wing extremist, separatist and religious. Left-wing extremist groups that have engaged in terrorist activity include Peoples Guerrilla Army, Peoples War Group, Moist Communist Centre, Communist Party of India-Maoist and Communist Party of India Janashakti. In Assam, there are at least 35 known separatist groups. In Manipur, theres the Peoples Liberation Army. In Meghalava, theres the Peoples Liberation Front of Meghalava. Nagaland has at least three known insurgent entities; Punjab has 12, Tripura has 30 and Mizoram has 2. Then theres Arunachal Dragon Force in Arunachal Pradesh.

In 2006, a total of 2,765 Indians died in terrorism-related violence (that same year, 1,471 Pakistanis died in terrorism-related violence). Of the 2,765 Indians, who lost their lives, 41 per cent were killed in Jammu and Kashmir, 27 per cent of all victims died because of Left-wing extremism, 23 per cent because of insurgencies and 10 per cent from militant groups based on religion.

Bush was warned that al-Qaeda was planning but Bush didnt pay much heed. Sukarnoputri was warned but she didnt pay much heed. Manmohan Singh has also been ignoring warnings. America suffered and so did Indonesia and now India. In the first 11 months of 2008, casualties of terrorist violence in Pakistan already number 6,158. We are all falling victims to entities in our midst who are adamant on imposing their own world view on to the rest of usand that, too, through violence.

Whos behind Mumbai attacks? Is it Indias left-wing extremists, separatists or Indias home-grown Jihadi militants? Many a finger are pointing at Indias home-grown Jihadi militants but we may never find out for sure. The Mumbai attacks, however, is a wake-up call for the global intelligence community for them to rise up to the challenge and focus their collective energies in the right direction. B Raman, one of Indias leading analysts, is of the opinion that a whole lot of Indias militancy is self radicalisation, self motivation and self execution.

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## dr.umer

I wonder what kind of "Mujahids" are these people. I mean what we see normally is that those terrorist who defame name of Great Islam are usually having beards and their way of talking is much different than those interviewed by NDTV. Those terrorist don't match the regular profile of Pakistani Jihadis that carry out attacks in Pakistan. 

All of this interview crap seems to be staged to blame Pakistan as elections are coming and this is the biggest blow that present govt has suffered. It is good that ISI chief will visit India. India's foreign minister has accused Pakistan but has said that "Proof cannot be disclosed at this time." Most probably because there is none.

Both countries are suffering from terrorism and it is time Indian media should realize that doing politics on such an affair will not do good for them. If they are really interested in making any effort against terrorism, they needs to stop blame game and seriously focus on anti-terror operations against people who cause harm in the name of religions (Islam and Hindu).

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## Neo

nitesh said:


> Neo, sorry but I am curious why army chief has to come here. it is intelligence sharing. Sounds odd to me. But the news is in ticker. So not sure



Honestly I have no clue, maybe its a good will gesture to show that we take matters seriously. I'm sure Kiyani's presence will put much weight into this meeting.
We'll have to wait what reasons FM comes with.

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## s90

Jihadis in south asia aint like these boys.I only saw these type of boys wearing baggy jeans,tshirts,and bands in hand in those 7/7 attacks in UK,so they can be British also


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## nitesh

*Terrorists let go 17 Russian hostages after checking passport *

The Hindu Business Line : Terrorists let go 17 Russian hostages after checking passport


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## dr.umer

s90 said:


> Jihadis in south asia aint like these boys.I only saw these type of boys wearing baggy jeans,tshirts,and bands in hand in those 7/7 attacks in UK,so they can be British also



Agreed. Also listen to the audio tape again. Does it even looks like that a boy of this "type" looking Brit can have an accent like one interviewed by NDTV ? Also when terrorist was asked what are his demands, he said "hold on" and asked someone else "what are our demands" ? I mean what the hell. You have killed record number of people and you bloody don't know what your demands are and why you did that. 

I am forced to make my mind that either this picture is fake or that NDTV tapes are fake. They both can't be true at the same time.


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## Bull

Asim Aquil said:


> Oh they are sponsored with Indian money and from Indian consulates.
> 
> You reap what you sow. You've cajoled and nourished terrorist outfits all your lives. Thats why now even in India there is a terror incident every month.



Everyone reap what they sow. Thats why we have Pakistan PM calling us up and saying we are also equal victims.



Asim Aquil said:


> What was that? Indian Army bombed Indian civilian trains?



And then you have the Indian Police arresting the Indian Army. lol

This isnt pakistan, we dont have our army killing our own.


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## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> I think it was pretty much clear from these ICL matches and the massive support Pakistanis drew. The Indian Muslims came wearing Shalwar Kameez and the Muslim cap, waving the Pak flag, to make a bold statement that they are with Pakistan.



The dress and Muslim cap is their dress. That has nothing to do with Pakistan.

Show me one report that they carried Pakistan flag or supported Pakistan. This statement seems like a daydream to me. I never read a single report about this.

It seems to be along the same foot in the mouth disease that your captain showed in the T-20 final and made himself a fool in front of the world.


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## Neo

Bull said:


> Everyone reap what they sow. Thats why we have **** PM calling us up and saying we are also equal victims.



Correction: Not equal but bigger victom.

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## Bull

Neo said:


> Correction: Not equal but bigger victom.



Ok Neo, wont disagree wth you.

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## Vinod2070

Flintlock said:


> Shahid is not a "Shuddha Hindi" word, but its borrowed from Arabic and used to indicate "martyr".
> 
> I don't think there is a Hindi word for "Martyr" (someone with good knowledge of Hindi please confirm this)



Shahid in Hindi would roughly translate as "Veergati ko prapt hona".

Shahid is used much more commonly for the martyrs in India as you pointed out but Doordarshan would use the words "Veergati ko prapt huai" (roughly met the fate of a brave person).

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## dr.umer

Bull said:


> This isnt pakistan, we dont have our army killing our own.



*Indian intelligence sponsored grenade attack in Sopore, one killed, 3 injured ​*
27 Nov 2008

SRINAGAR, Nov 27 (APP): One person was killed and three others injured when an unidentified person hurled a grenade at a road show organized by a National Conference candidate in Sopore, Baramulla district. Eye witnesses indicated that ex&#8209;SPO (Special Police Officer) who is presently on the payroll of Indian Border Security Force carried out the grenade attack to develop sympathies of locals for National Conference candidate and hatred against pro&#8209;independence groups. 

As per the details, the grenade was thrown at the road show organised by Mohammad Ashraf Ganaie at Braat&#8209;Kalaan in Sopore area at around 1315 hours on Nov 25, Initially four persons were injured but injured identified as Afaq Ahmad succumbed to injuries while being shifted to hospital. This is the first grenade attack on an election rally in Indian held Jammu and Kashmir since campaigning process began. Locals in Baramulla district are of the view that Indian intelligence agencies have carried out this grenade attack through their source in order to defame all those who boycotted the elections. It is on record that in the first two phases of elections no untoward incident took place any where in IHK.


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## smeaglegolum

*Arrested Fidayeen reveal terror route, LeT hand*

PTI | November 28, 2008 | 13:01 IST

*The arrest of three Pakistani nationals hailing from Multan* in connection with Mumbai siege has once again *revealed the role of Lashkar-e-Tayiba* in terror strikes in India after the Akshardham attack in 2002.

Owner says trawler hijacked on high seas

Police and central security personnel have arrested at least three Pakistanis, including Ajmal Amir Kamal, a resident of Faridkot near Multan in Pakistan's Punjab province. All the three belong to the suicide squad of Lashkar-e-Tayiba.

The *terrorists told interrogators that 12 of them had left in a merchant vessel from the port city of Karachi, which was on its way to Vietnam, from which they got down and rowed 10 nautical miles into Indian waters up to Gateway of India.*

The dozen people split into at least five groups that created havoc in five star hotels -- Taj and Trident (Oberoi). The terrorists were carrying dry fruits, suggesting they were prepared for a long-drawn battle. 

The sources said the group was joined by some of the local contacts who provided them logistics like bags and dry fruits, the sources said, adding initial reports suggested that the terror group had come to the metropolis in the intervening night of Sunday and Monday.

However, new leads suggested that they had entered the Indian waters on early Wednesday morning, the sources said.

This major strike from the banned Lashkar comes six years after it had carried out an audacious attack on Akshardham temple in Ahmedabad in which 25 were killed on September 25, 2002.

Elite National Security Guards had to be airdropped into the complex to rescue 50 people.

The Lashkar-e-Tayiba had a mixed luck with attack on RSS headquarters in Nagpur and attack on Group Regimental Centre of the Central Reserve Police Force at Rampur (Uttar Pradesh) in 2007.

After being banned by the US for spreading terror in the world and being linked with Al-Qaeda, Lashkar had mainly used its Indian contacts, which included Indian Mujahideeen, to indulge in terror network.

However, this time in Mumbai, the terror group decided to carry out the attack itself as they wanted to strike in a big way, the sources said.

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## Bull

dr.umer said:


> *Indian intelligence sponsored grenade attack in Sopore, one killed, 3 injured ​*
> 27 Nov 2008
> 
> SRINAGAR, Nov 27 (APP): One person was killed and three others injured when an unidentified person hurled a grenade at a road show organized by a National Conference candidate in Sopore, Baramulla district. Eye witnesses indicated that ex&#8209;SPO (Special Police Officer) who is presently on the payroll of Indian Border Security Force carried out the grenade attack to develop sympathies of locals for National Conference candidate and hatred against pro&#8209;independence groups.
> 
> As per the details, the grenade was thrown at the road show organised by Mohammad Ashraf Ganaie at Braat&#8209;Kalaan in Sopore area at around 1315 hours on Nov 25, Initially four persons were injured but injured identified as Afaq Ahmad succumbed to injuries while being shifted to hospital. This is the first grenade attack on an election rally in Indian held Jammu and Kashmir since campaigning process began. Locals in Baramulla district are of the view that Indian intelligence agencies have carried out this grenade attack through their source in order to defame all those who boycotted the elections. It is on record that in the first two phases of elections no untoward incident took place any where in IHK.


Lol APP. Couldnt find a better news agency than APP to comment abt India.


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## smeaglegolum

dr.umer said:


> *Indian intelligence sponsored grenade attack in Sopore, one killed, 3 injured ​*
> 27 Nov 2008
> 
> SRINAGAR, Nov 27 (APP): One person was killed and three others injured when an unidentified person hurled a grenade at a road show organized by a National Conference candidate in Sopore, Baramulla district. Eye witnesses indicated that ex&#8209;SPO (Special Police Officer) who is presently on the payroll of Indian Border Security Force carried out the grenade attack to develop sympathies of locals for National Conference candidate and hatred against pro&#8209;independence groups.
> 
> As per the details, the grenade was thrown at the road show organised by Mohammad Ashraf Ganaie at Braat&#8209;Kalaan in Sopore area at around 1315 hours on Nov 25, Initially four persons were injured but injured identified as Afaq Ahmad succumbed to injuries while being shifted to hospital. This is the first grenade attack on an election rally in Indian held Jammu and Kashmir since campaigning process began. Locals in Baramulla district are of the view that Indian intelligence agencies have carried out this grenade attack through their source in order to defame all those who boycotted the elections. It is on record that in the first two phases of elections no untoward incident took place any where in IHK.




Look at the source, where it is published.


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## Flintlock

Vinod2070 said:


> Shahid in Hindi would roughly translate as "Veergati ko prapt hona".
> 
> Shahid is used much more commonly for the martyrs in India as you pointed out but Doordarshan would use the words "Veergati ko prapt huai" (roughly met the fate of a brave person).



Yes, you're right the phrase would be "veergati ko prapt huey" - I haven't heard that one in a while  

Perhaps because I haven't watched DD in a while.


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## Halaku Khan

Flintlock said:


> Shahid is not a "Shuddha Hindi" word, but its borrowed from Arabic and used to indicate "martyr".
> 
> I don't think there is a Hindi word for "Martyr" (someone with good knowledge of Hindi please confirm this)



The Sanskrit word for Martyr is Hutatma.

Very commonly used in some Indian languages like Marathi but not in Hindi, it seems.

Personally I would prefer that the word Shaheed not be used.

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## anand

dr.umer said:


> I wonder what kind of "Mujahids" are these people. I mean what we see normally is that those terrorist who defame name of Great Islam are usually having beards and their way of talking is much different than those interviewed by NDTV. Those terrorist don't match the regular profile of Pakistani Jihadis that carry out attacks in Pakistan.
> 
> All of this interview crap seems to be staged to blame Pakistan as elections are coming and this is the biggest blow that present govt has suffered. It is good that ISI chief will visit India. *India's foreign minister has accused Pakistan but has said that "Proof cannot be disclosed at this time." Most probably because there is none.*
> 
> Both countries are suffering from terrorism and it is time Indian media should realize that doing politics on such an affair will not do good for them. If they are really interested in making any effort against terrorism, they needs to stop blame game and seriously focus on anti-terror operations against people who cause harm in the name of religions (Islam and Hindu).



FM did not blame Pakistan. He told some element in Pakistan are responsible. They may be some terrorist organization, some individuals or anyone. it does not mean Pakistan as a country has planned this.


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## s90

Indians dont know that attack will take place on this massive scale crippling a city like Mumbai,they dont know who these guys are,they dont know about this group

But yes one thing they know is that they are from Pakistan


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## Flintlock

Halaku Khan said:


> The Sanskrit word for Martyr is Hutatma.
> 
> Very commonly used in some Indian languages like Marathi but not in Hindi, it seems.
> 
> Personally I would prefer that the word Shaheed not be used.



Yes, there's "Hutatma Chowk" In Mumbai.

I thought it was a Marathi word only !!


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## dr.umer

> *Arrested Fidayeen reveal terror route, LeT hand*
> 
> *The arrest of three Pakistani nationals hailing from Multan* in connection with Mumbai siege has once again *revealed the role of Lashkar-e-Tayiba* in terror strikes in India after the Akshardham attack in 2002.
> 
> Owner says trawler hijacked on high seas
> 
> Police and central security personnel have arrested at least three Pakistanis, including Ajmal Amir Kamal, a resident of Faridkot near Multan in Pakistan's Punjab province. All the three belong to the suicide squad of Lashkar-e-Tayiba.
> 
> The *terrorists told interrogators that 12 of them had left in a merchant vessel from the port city of Karachi, which was on its way to Vietnam, from which they got down and rowed 10 nautical miles into Indian waters up to Gateway of India.*



How sweet. Terrorist exactly told the same story what India media was showing in early hours of operations with out any proof. PTI at it's best.


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## smeaglegolum

s90 said:


> Indians dont know that attack will take place on this massive scale crippling a city like Mumbai,they dont know who these guys are,they dont know about this group
> 
> *But yes one thing they know is that they are from Pakistan*



Yes, you are right. Evidence is pointing towards that direction.


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## smeaglegolum

dr.umer said:


> How sweet. Terrorist exactly told the same story what India media was showing in early hours of operations with out any proof. PTI at it's best.



Truth doesn't change, that must be the reason.


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## dr.umer

Update:

*Fresh explosions continue at Taj.*

Fresh explosions have been heard at Taj hotel. A gunbattle is believed to have resumed between commandos and a sole terrorist still holed up inside Taj hotel. 

Six more hostages have been rescued from the hotel a short while ago. They were escorted out of the back entrance of the hotel. 

Earlier, marine commandos recovered 30 bodies from the Taj hotel and have said that around 200 people were held hostage at one of the halls of the hotel. 

Commandos told reporters that terrorists were well aware of the Taj's layout and they were carrying AK series rifle. They recovered 1200$ and Rs 6000 from the assailants.

Marine commandos also handed over a Mauritian national identity-card and a number of credit cards recovered from the militants inside the Taj hotel. 

Earlier, a gunbattle between NSG commandos and a militant holed up inside the Taj hotel raged up. 

An explosion was also heard at the ground floor of the old building of the hotel. 

Earlier, Indian Army commander confirmed that at least one militant continues to battle Indian commandos in the Taj Hotel in Mumbai and may be holding two or more hostages. 

"Almost all the guests in the hotel and the staff in the hotel have been evacuated," Lieutenant-General N. Thamburaj told reporters. 

He told reporters that almost all guests and staff had been evacuated from the Taj and the operation would be wrapped up there in a few hours. "It is just a matter of few hours before "we wrap up things" says GoC, Southern Command. 

The new building of Taj hotel has been totally flushed out and cleared and handed over to police, he said adding that one terrorist, possibly two, had moved into the adjacent old heritage building. 

"We have heard the sound of a woman and a man, giving indications that they are being held hostage," Thamburaj said but added that almost all guests and staff in the hotel have been evacuated. 

He conceded that the there were some casualties among the NSG commandos but would not disclose their numbers and whether they were fatal or otherwise saying that operational details would affect the "mental makeup" of terrorists. 

Thamburaj said that operations had to be "deliberate and slow" to ensure the safety of the hostages, guests and hotel staff. The commandos had been told not to rush things under the "pressure of media or citizens". 

He said some rooms in Taj are still bolted from inside and people inside are not responding, probably they are scared. "As soon as communication and room services are restored, we will inform them about the situation and ask them to come out".


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## Imran Khan

when kits finished opration before you blame pakistan first finish your job there they blast every 1 hour aand indian media never say to there forces any thing but pakistan pakistan pakistan


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## Indicom

Major.Sandeep Unnikrishnan & Hawaldar Chander of NSG sacrificed their lives in the line of duty.

RIP.


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## dr.umer

smeaglegolum said:


> Truth doesn't change, that must be the reason.



Yes, you are right. Truth doesn't change. Are you talking about that truth which was about blaming Pakistan on number of occasions and then finding out that there was problem "In-house" ? 

That one change buddy, big time and at number of times.


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## s90

smeaglegolum said:


> Yes, you are right. Evidence is pointing towards that direction.



Its not first time Indians said this, Indians usually point out to PK to tell Indian nation they are doing something basically PK is a punchbag for their own massive intel failures,now they barring ISI for help because they are clueless


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## Zaheerkhan

*PAKISTAN ISI CHIEF SUMMONED TO INDIA, Pakistan Army chief Ashfaq Parvez Kayani TO ACCOMPANY HIM TO INDIA*

New Delhi: The chief of Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) of Pakistan Lt General Ahmed Shujaa Pasha will be coming to India in connection with the terrorist attacks in Mumbai.

The development came after Prime Minister Dr Mannmohan Singh on Friday asked his Pakistani counterpart Yousuf Raja Gillani to send the intelligence chief for information sharing.

According to reports, Pakistan Army chief Ashfaq Parvez Kayani will also accompany Pasha to India.

The government of Pakistan has reportedly accepted Prime Minister Mammohan Singh&#8217;s request and will shortly send General Pasha to India.

Pak Prime Minister&#8217;s spokesman Zahid Bashir said Singh had made a request to Gilani, asking him to send the ISI chief to India to &#8220;cooperate in the investigation of the Mumbai attacks and for sharing certain information&#8221;.

Bashir told reporters that &#8220;The Pakistani Prime Minister has accepted this offer. The two sides will work out modalities for the visit of the Inter Services Intelligence chief which is expected to take place soon.&#8221;

The request from the Indian side was made shortly after External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee said that preliminary information suggested that &#8220;some elements&#8221; in Pakistan were responsible for the terror strikes in Mumbai.

&#8220;According to preliminary information, some elements in Pakistan are responsible for Mumbai terror attacks,&#8221; External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee told reporters.

&#8220;Proof cannot be disclosed at this time,&#8221; he said, noting that Pakistan had assured India that it will not allow use of its territory for launching attacks against this country.

Meanwhile, Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari also called Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and assured him of Islamabad&#8217;s cooperation in the war against terrorism.

Earlier, in a televised address to the nation yesterday, the Prime Minister had blamed elements outside the country for the terror strikes in Mumbai and warned that India will not tolerate the use of territory of its neighbours for attacks in the country.

Singh had said the &#8220;well-planned and well-orchestrated attacks, probably with external linkages, were intended to create a sense of panic by choosing high profile targets and indiscriminately killing foreigners.&#8221;

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## dr.umer

imran khan said:


> when kits finished opration before you blame pakistan first finish your job there they blast every 1 hour aand indian media never say to there forces any thing but pakistan pakistan pakistan



Sir Imran, They need time to set things up in hotels before they can call media in. 

I wonder are we going to find Pakistani ID cards this time as before. Imagine terrorist carrying "identity cards".


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## Imran Khan

exelent must india sheare with ISI any proove its nice idea hope now blame game stop from indian media


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## Zaheerkhan

^^^^ Link:Pak Secret Agency&#8217;s Chief Visit to India


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## dr.umer

Indicom said:


> Well he has a lot to explain & share.



Are you speaking on his behalf ?


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## Imran Khan

dr.umer said:


> Sir Imran, They need time to set things up in hotels before they can call media in.
> 
> I wonder are we going to find Pakistani ID cards this time as before. Imagine terrorist carrying "identity cards".



you rmember me story of an ISI agent he write his book when they inter in india 1974 ISI give them indian shoes clothes and take every thing from them even there vailets he write we even change they bottens of our shitrs because there was name of company wich make shirts botten in pakistan .and they say guys have id cards mobile sims and calling from pakistan .i think they under ustemate ISI brains


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## s90

^ i hope they have National Bank of Pakistan credit cards also,they were part tourist also


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## smeaglegolum

s90 said:


> Its not first time Indians said this, Indians usually point out to PK to tell Indian nation they are doing something basically PK is a punchbag for their own massive intel failures,*now they barring ISI for help because they are clueless*



Not because they are clueless, but because they have *clues* to show that pakistani elements not necessarily GoP are involved in this attack. Sooner or later it will be shown to public what evidence is gathered.


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## Vinod2070

s90, I advise you to change your Avatar. Your views don't do justice to your Avatar.

You have that much more responsibility when you use an Avatar like that.

Just a suggestion.


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## Neo

Pakistan is ready to cooperate and assist where ever she can. We have more experience with AQ than India, I'm sure any asistance would be helpful.

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## dr.umer

*Indias Suspicion of Pakistan Clouds U.S. Strategy in Region ​*
November 27, 2008 

NY Times

By JANE PERLEZ

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan  The terrorist attacks in Mumbai occurred as India and Pakistan, two big, hostile and nuclear-armed nations, were delicately moving toward improved relations with the encouragement of the United States and in particular the incoming Obama administration. 

Those steps could quickly be derailed, with deep consequences for the United States, if India finds Pakistani fingerprints on the well-planned operation. India has raised suspicions. Pakistan has vehemently denied them. 

But no matter who turns out to be responsible for the Mumbai attacks, their scale and the choice of international targets will make the agenda of the new American administration harder. 

Reconciliation between India and Pakistan has emerged as a basic tenet in the approaches to foreign policy of President-elect Barack Obama, and the new leader of Central Command, Gen. David H. Petraeus. The point is to persuade Pakistan to focus less of its military effort on India, and more on the militants in its lawless tribal regions who are ripping at the soul of Pakistan. 

A strategic pivot by Pakistans military away from a focus on India to an all-out effort against the Taliban and their associates in Al Qaeda, the thinking goes, would serve to weaken the militants who are fiercely battling American and NATO forces in Afghanistan. 

But attacks as devastating as those that unfolded in Mumbai  whether ultimately traced to homegrown Indian militants or to others from abroad, or a combination  seem likely to sour relations, fuel distrust and hamper, at least for now, Americas ambitions for reconciliation in the region.

The early signs were that India, where state elections are scheduled next week, would take a tough stand and blame its neighbor. In his statement to the nation, the Indian prime minister, Manmohan Singh, who in the past has been relatively moderate in his approach to Pakistan, sounded a harsh tone. 

He said the attacks probably had external linkages, and were carried out by a group based outside the country. There would be a cost to our neighbors, he said, if their territory was found to have been used as a launching pad. 

The prime minister did not name Pakistan. But everyone  certainly on Pakistani television news programs Thursday night  knew that is what he meant, and that the long history of Pakistani-Indian finger-pointing had returned. 

The Hindustan Times, an influential Indian newspaper, reported Thursday that Indias security agencies believed that the multiple attacks in Mumbai were by an Islamic militant group, Lashkar-e-Taiba, operating out of Pakistan. 

According to the newspaper, the special secretary at the Home Affairs Ministry, M. L. Kumawat, said that Lashkar-e-Taiba was a distinct possibility. The newspaper stopped short of saying that Pakistans premier intelligence agency, Inter-Services Intelligence, had helped Lashkar-e-Taiba plan and execute the Mumbai operation, a role that the Indian government has ascribed to the Pakistani intelligence agency in past terrorist attacks. 

But if India discovers that the intelligence agency is connected to the Mumbai attacks  even rogue elements of the agency  the slightly warmer relationship that has been fostered between the neighbors would no doubt return to a deep freeze. And that may have partly been the motivation of whoever carried out the attacks.

If the Indians believe this was Lashkar-e-Taiba and Al Qaeda, as they are suggesting, we could see a crisis like 2002 with enormous pressure to do something, an American official said on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the matter. The key will be if the Indians see an ISI hand. 

After a dozen people died in an assault on the Indian Parliament in New Delhi in December 2001, India blamed a jihadist group, Jaish-e-Muhammad, and said Inter-Services Intelligence had backed the operation. For the next year the neighbors remained on the brink of war with forces massed along their 1,800-mile border. 

According to a new book, The Search for Al Qaeda, by Bruce Riedel, an adviser on South Asia to Mr. Obama, Osama bin Laden worked with the Pakistani intelligence agency in the late 1980s to create Lashkar-e-Taiba as a jihadist group intended to challenge Indian rule in Kashmir. 

But the new president of Pakistan, Asif Ali Zardari, appears to be acting according to Americas playbook for better relations with India. 

A businessman at heart, Mr. Zardari understands the benefit of strong trade between India and Pakistan. Now on life support from the International Monetary Fund, Pakistan would profit immensely from the normalization of relations. 

Mr. Zardari has called for visa-free travel, a huge step from a situation in which there are not even scheduled flights between the nations capitals. Speaking to an Indian audience over a video link from Islamabad last weekend, Mr. Zardari proposed a no first nuclear strike policy with India. The idea came as a shock to the Pakistani Army, which has always refused to commit to a policy of no first use of nuclear weapons. 

Going further, Mr. Zardari said South Asia should be a nuclear-weapon-free zone, which could be achieved by a nonnuclear treaty. 

I can get around my Parliament to this view, but can you get around the Indian Parliament to this view? he asked. 

Pakistani officials said the presidents sentiments did not reflect the policies of the powerful Pakistani security establishment, whose existence has been predicated since partition of the subcontinent 61 years ago on viewing India as the enemy. 

It will take more than off-the-cuff remarks intended to please a dinner audience to change these longstanding policies, Pakistani newspaper editorials said. 

He wants improved relations with India, said Sajjan M.Gohel, director for international security of the Asia-Pacific Foundation in London. But Zardari needs the full support of the Pakistani security apparatus, and he doesnt have it. 

Some of the moves toward improving the atmosphere between India and Pakistan were under way on the night of the Mumbai attacks. The Pakistani foreign minister, Shah Mahmood Qureshi, on a four-day trip to India, had just finished discussions with the Indian foreign minister, Pranab Mukherjee, on terrorism, trade and the loosening of visa restrictions when the terrorists struck. 

Visibly moved by the attacks, Mr. Qureshi appeared on Indian television on Thursday, calling the attacks barbaric. He urged both sides not to resort to knee-jerk reactions and to drop the usual blame game. Across the board, senior Pakistani officials condemned the attacks. 

But there was also immediate anxiety among Pakistanis about the Indian prime ministers unequivocal tone. It is unfair to blame Pakistan or Pakistanis for these acts of terrorism even before an investigation is undertaken, said the Pakistani ambassador to the United States, Husain Haqqani. Instead of scoring political points at the expense of a neighboring country that is itself a victim of terrorism, it is time for Indias leaders to work together with Pakistans elected leaders in putting up a joint front against terrorism. 

Unless care is exercised, one of the apparent goals of the Mumbai attack will be achieved, said Moonis Ahmar, a lecturer in international relations at Karachi University. And the new American agenda of reconciliation between India and Pakistan will be sacrificed. Its a well-thought-out conspiracy to destabilize relations between the two countries, Mr. Ahmar said.


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## Munir

Indian sources... I have my reservations. It is arrogantly written that he is summoned... Maybe the beg him to come. We will see...


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## anand

s90 said:


> ^ i hope they have National Bank of Pakistan credit cards also,they were part tourist also



Terrorists also need money, id cards which may be fake, to enter get accommodation (remember they don't sleep on footpaths, instead they booked luxury hotels). They also need phones to contact. All these things may be fake, stolen from others, acquired on false name etc. but fact is, security agencies found mobile phone (from a terrorist who was shot dead), Credit cards (which is very much required to survive in mumbai).
Last but not least, no one form Indian government has accused involvement of Pakistani Govt in this.


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## Vinod2070

Neo said:


> Pakistan is ready to cooperate and assist where ever she can. We have more experience with AQ than India, I'm sure any asistance would be helpful.



If that can happen in this instance, it would be a new beginning in our relations and a new dawn for the region.

Amen to that.

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## Halaku Khan

Indicom said:


> Well he has a lot to explain & share.



I hope India doesn't let the Pakistanis off the hook this time.


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## Munir

The timing, the way it is done... It is indeed not a simple something. It can be lined in the same bloack as 911... If you look at the complexity then the Mariot was pathetic and amaturistic. I think it is wise for both India and Pakistan to form a secret military group to avoid this in the future. If the both continue blaiming or defending then it will be a win for those that acted...

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## shchinese

India is still using the 1895 Lee-Enfield rifle? 

 I was thinking they are using some WWII weapon, now I think I was wrong. they are using this shitty rifle designed in 1895! 



*this is the typical things you have in those backwater state where the rich stay in 5 star hotels while the poor are protecting those rich people using rifles designed 110+ years ago.* 

now this is a very good news. 

Lee-Enfield rifle:
Lee-Enfield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## x_man

Zaheerkhan said:


> ....Dr Mannmohan Singh on Friday asked his Pakistani counterpart Yousuf Raja Gillani to send the intelligence chief for information sharing.
> 
> According to reports, Pakistan Army chief Ashfaq Parvez Kayani will also accompany Pasha to India.....



Unprecedented, an action never seen before&#8230;&#8230;

Pakistan would have never accepted sending her Army Chief along with ISI head if they had anything to do with the terrorist attacks&#8230;.Its as simple...

It&#8217;s a tragedy what happened in Mumbai and I am certain that Pakistan will do anything in her capacity to help India in getting to the culprits &#8230;.I am sure that our Indian forum members will appreciate this without any further doubt&#8230;.

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## Imran Khan

smeaglegolum said:


> Not because they are clueless, but because they have *clues* to show that pakistani elements not necessarily GoP are involved in this attack. Sooner or later it will be shown to public what evidence is gathered.




i hope its not like this drama


Monday's Samjhauta Express train fire bombing in India:





Sketches of bomb suspects released:

".... the sketches were based on eyewitness accounts of two men who jumped off the train before a pair of explosions hit passenger cars, killing at least 68 people.One man was in his mid-20s and the other was in his mid-30s, police said. Police said the two boarded the train in New Delhi and rode it for a while before they started an argument with railroad police on the train. They told the officers they got on the wrong train and persuaded them to let them jump off. Fifteen minutes after they jumped, the blasts occurred."




were is indian army colonel in these Sketches ??????????


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## Neo

Vinod2070 said:


> If that can happen in this instance, it would be a new beginning in our relations and a new dawn for the region.
> 
> Amen to that.



Vinod,

We have acknowledged AQ to be a bigger threat to national sucurity than India, its time you guys did the same and broke with age old tradition to blame Pakistan or ISI for every single crime commited on your soil. Every day you ignore AQ is another precious day lost and you become more vulnerable and exposed to AQ.

Pakistan today is caught up in the middle of WoT, we're facing threats from inside aswell as outside only because we ignored the interior element for so long and paid a heavy price for our ignorance...as a matter of fact we're still paying it. Learn from our mistakes and join hands to fight the phenom together.

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## dr.umer

*India cannot pin all the blame on outsiders​*28 Nov 2008

Times UK

Images of that great Bombay monument, the Taj Mahal Palace hotel, engulfed in flames and thick billowing smoke cannot help but recall the collapsing twin towers of 9/11. The attack seems to bear all the hallmarks of an al-Qaeda operation.

The terrorists chose Bombay (Mumbai), the New York of India; they targeted iconic buildings - the Taj and the Chhatrapati Shivaji railway station, the flamboyant mini-St Pancras that is redolent of the Raj-era glory days. The terrorists are reported to have been daring in their approach - they arrived by sea not far from the Raj's 1911 monument to itself, the basalt Gateway of India.

The Bombay outrage is a reminder of how crucial South Asia is in the creation of radical Islamist terrorism. Although the US often points the finger at Europe as its main incubator, it is in the sub-continent and the surrounding arc of states, simmering with ethnic and religious rivalries, that Islamist extremism thrives.

India has been plagued by more run-of-the-mill domestic terrorism in recent years, but this was the first full-scale anti-Western attack and Manmohan Singh, the Prime Minister, was quick to assert that it was the work of outsiders. 

*There is evidence to support his claim. The targeting of British and US citizens as hostages in the two hotels is a novel development. So too is the use of AK47s and commando tactics. In style and execution it was closest to attacks in the Saudi city of Khobar in May, 2004, when oil installations were targeted by apparently well-trained, Sten-gun-wielding paramilitaries who seized Western workers as hostages. 

The timing of the attack, likely to derail efforts by the incoming Obama Administration to pursue a more constructive approach to the War on Terror, also seems too convenient to be mere coincidence.*

But unlike 9/11 there is evidence of an entirely domestic element at play. In recent months there has been a spate of bombings in Indian cities. 

Responsibility has been claimed by the Indian Mujahadin - one of several fronts for the Students Islamic Movement of India (Simi). It is through Simi, Indian officials fear, that international terrorist networks have begun to penetrate more deeply into India - often through links with the Gulf. 

Founded in the late 1970s as a study group, Simi became involved in violence after the Hindu nationalist destruction of the Ayodhya mosque in 1992 and the Bombay riots of 1993. Banned after 9/11, it developed an underground network throughout India and Bangladesh. In the past 18 months there have been signs of a new international element in its activities. After the Jaipur bombings this summer, the Indian Mujahadin threatened foreign tourists. There is speculation of links with Gulf-based jihadist organisations. 

However, terrorism in India is by no means an exclusively Muslim practice. Terrorist violence is, sadly, endemic. In the past four years India has suffered the highest rate of civilian death by political violence after Iraq. It is at present experiencing a form of politics more akin to Italy's violent Years of Lead in the 1970s than Gandhi's Golden Age of Ahimsa (non-violence).

In its interiors, far-left Naxalites have waged an intermittent guerrilla war for more than 30 years; in the 1980s the Khalistan-Punjab crisis claimed 40,000 lives, and the insurgency in Kashmir another 90,000. And in the late 1980s and early 1990s Hindu nationalist extremists used terrorism as an electoral strategy - and appear to be doing so again in this election year with attacks on Indian Christians in eastern and southern India.

But despite the multi-religious and multi-ethnic origins of terrorist violence the Indian authorities have, until recently, tended to treat only Muslims as terrorists. So while Muslim terrorists have been subject to extraordinary laws of detention and trial in special courts, Hindu nationalist rioters have been tried in regular courts, or, more usually, not been punished at all. 

One of the principal complaints of Indian Muslim groups is the failure to bring to trial any of the Hindu ringleaders responsible for pogroms in Bombay in 1993 and Gujarat in 2002 in which more than 4,000 Muslims died.

While the Pakistani intelligence agency, the ISI, and international jihadist groups have undoubtedly trained and funded Indian Muslim terrorists, the chief recruiting officer is often the Indian State.

This is especially true at regional and state level where the police and judiciary are often captured by Hindu political interests that have used anti-terrorist laws to pursue political vendettas. The extreme poverty of many Muslims in India, whose status, according to a recent report, was below that of the Untouchable caste of Hindus, has increased frustration.

While Untouchable and other low-caste groups are actively promoted into universities and prestigious state jobs, India's 150 million Muslims, who make up 13 per cent of the population, hold only 3 per cent of state posts. They are even less well represented in the police. 

There are signs that the present Congress-led coalition recognises these problems. On taking office in 2004, Dr Singh's Government abolished the controversial Prevention of Terrorism Act (Pota), which, the Prime Minister argued, was propagating rather than preventing terrorism.

Another positive sign was the recent arrest of Hindu nationalist terrorist cells in Maharashtra. After the Delhi bombs in September the Government announced the creation of a central intelligence agency to monitor Islamist terror. Given the intelligence failures emerging in the wake of the Bombay catastrophe, this can only be welcomed

The immediate effect of the Bombay attacks will probably be to fuel the recovery of the Hindu nationalist BJP and its supporters, who are demanding the reimposition of the Pota laws. We can only hope that better counsel prevails and India does not lapse into a new cycle of violence and revenge.

Maria Misra is the author of Vishnu's Crowded Temple: India and the Great Rebellion (Penguin) and a Fellow of Keble College, Oxford

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## Neo

dr.umer said:


> *India cannot pin all the blame on outsiders​*28 Nov 2008
> 
> Times UK



Excellent!
More and more western media is looking into the possibility of other elements than Pakistan or ISI alone.


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## fatman17

DAWN-TV reporting that on the request of Indian PM, the Pak-PM has agreed to send the Head of ISI to India to support the indian investigation.

This is a major breakthrough in relations. now how India and Pak use this to solve this tradegy will require a lot of "out-of-the-box" co-operation between both intelligence communities.

some reports are suggesting that Army chief Gen.Kiyani will also accompany the ISI chief.

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## Pk_Thunder

*ISI chief to visit India: PM's office*​
Updated at: 1543 PST, Friday, November 28, 2008

ISI chief to visit India: PM ISLAMABAD: The chief of Pakistan's military intelligence agency, Inter Services Intelligence (ISI), will soon go to India to help investigate the Mumbai attacks, the premier's spokesman told foreign news agency.
ISI lieutenant general Ahmed Shuja Pasha will leave shortly to share intelligence with Indian security officials, said premier Yousuf Raza Gilani's spokesman, Zahid Bashir.

"Initially, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh made a request to our prime minister that he should send the ISI Chief to India to help in ongoing investigations and further intelligence sharing," he said.

"The prime minister of Pakistan responded positively and said both governments need to work out modalities for the early arrival of the


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## dr.umer

*Elite commandos battle Mumbai militants as India and Pakistan square up​*
BRIAN FERGUSON 

Scotsman UK

TENSIONS between India and Pakistan were mounting last night as elite commandos continued to battle terrorists in Mumbai.

As the death toll reached 119, with at least 315 wounded, a war of words flared between the two countries.

Reports emerged last night that three militants involved in Wednesday's attacks had confessed to membership of the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba group, which had earlier denied any involvement.

The authorities last night admitted the situation in Mumbai was still not under control, more than 24 hours after the attacks began.

Dozens of people were still thought to be being held hostage at two luxury hotels and a nearby Jewish centre. Up to 12 gunmen were believed to be holed up in the three sites last night.

Throughout yesterday, commandos brought hostages, trapped guests and corpses out of the five-star Oberoi and Taj Mahal hotels, from which frequent gunfire and explosions could be heard.

It is thought more than 50 people are still being held hostage in the Oberoi, with a handful more still awaiting rescue in the Taj Mahal, where three gunmen were killed in a bid to bring an end to the siege.

Vilasrao Deshmukh, the chief minister of Maharashtra state, said: "The situation is still not under control, and we are trying to flush out any more terrorists hiding inside the two hotels."

Officers from Scotland Yard flew to Mumbai last night to help the authorities restore order.

*Manmohan Singh, the Indian prime minister, yesterday triggered anger in Pakistan by declaring it was "evident" that the group which carried out the attacks "was based outside the country" and warned its neighbours "the use of their territory for launching attacks on us will not be tolerated".

The Indian navy had earlier stoked fears of Pakistan's involvement in the attacks by revealing that officers had boarded a cargo vessel which had recently arrived in Mumbai from Karachi.

Pictures were shown of black and yellow rubber dinghies found by the shore. However, the navy later admitted nothing suspicious had been found on the vessel and it had been released.

Mr Singh did not name Pakistan in his address to the Indian nation, but his remarks drew a swift response from Pakistan's defence minister, Ahmed Mukhtar, who said: "Nobody should blame anyone without any evidence and verification.

"We have nothing to do with these attacks. We condemn these attacks. We should not be blamed like in the past. This will destroy all the goodwill we created together after years of bitterness.

"I will say in very categoric terms that Pakistan is not involved in these gory incidents."

Eyewitnesses said the attackers had specifically targeted Britons and Americans inside the hotels, where dozens of guests were still reported to be hiding last night until given the all-clear by the authorities.*

David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, described the atrocities as "an attack on all of us".

He said the attacks bore some of the marks of al-Qaeda, but stressed it was too early to know if groups linked to the Islamist terrorist network were involved.

"It is very premature to start talking about links to al-Qaeda. The fact that these were co-ordinated attacks, that they were attacks on travel centres as well as on hotels, bears some hallmarks of al-Qaeda, but, equally, that doesn't mean this was an al-Qaeda attack."

At least six foreigners, including a Briton, an Australian, an Italian and a Japanese national, were killed. The Briton was named as Andreas Liveras, 73, the founder of a yacht business, from Nottinghamshire. 

Ian Tyler, the chief executive of the construction giant Balfour Beatty, was also caught up in the terror at the Oberoi hotel.

The British High Commission in Delhi has set up a command centre in Mumbai's British Council library, where victims were able to prepare to fly home.

Sir Richard Stagg, the British High Commissioner in India, said he had seen three or four wounded Britons in hospital, but said the total "must be significantly more". UK officials flew to Mumbai yesterday to help Britons caught in the attacks.

The England cricket team postponed its final one-day matches against India amid fears for players' safety. They will fly back to Britain tomorrow, but intend to return to India in time to start a Test on 11 December.


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## salman nedian

We should also call the RAW chief to show him the evidences that we have of Indian involvement in FATA and Baluchistan.


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## dr.umer

dr.umer said:


> The Indian navy had earlier stoked fears of Pakistan's involvement in the attacks by revealing that officers had boarded a cargo vessel which had recently arrived in Mumbai from Karachi.
> 
> Pictures were shown of black and yellow rubber dinghies found by the shore. However, the navy later admitted nothing suspicious had been found on the vessel and it had been released.



So Indian navy later admitted that nothing suspicious had been found on the vessel and it had been released but Indian bias media keeps on blaming Pakistan. 

Technically India is back to square one with no clues and proofs.

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## fatman17

salman nedian said:


> We should also call the RAW chief to show him the evidences that we have of Indian involvement in FATA and Baluchistan.



yes indeed! but later not now...


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## Neo

salman nedian said:


> We should also call the RAW chief to show him the evidences that we have of Indian involvement in FATA and Baluchistan.



One thing at a time mate, if it comes to a breakthru there will be repercussion from both sides.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

shrivatsa said:


> If Pakistani terrorists can enter India so easily they can bring a Pakistani nuclear bomb easily to India first Pakistani nuclear weapons must be destroyed.they are great threat to the whole world



Pakistani nuclear safeguards are widely acknowledged to be far better and more advanced than the Indian ones, and the US has provided technical and financial input into making that happen (there is a sticky thread devoted to the safeguards I believe).

After the intel and security failures here, I'd be more worried about terrorists getting ahold of Indian nukes and using them in India, unless India gets its safeguards up to Pakistani standards.

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## Neo

dr.umer said:


> So Indian navy later admitted that nothing suspicious had been found on the vessel and it had been released but Indian bias media keeps on blaming Pakistan.
> 
> Technically India is back to square one with no clues and proofs.



The two vessels mentioned earlier to be intercepted and chased by Indian Navy seem to be registered in Gujerat, not Sindh.

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## dr.umer

*Officials resist laying blame on al Qaeda for attacks in India​*28 Nov 2008

Miami Herald

The brutal, tactical attack in Mumbai comes at a time when India is flexing its economic muscle worldwide and when tensions between India and Pakistan -- always haunted by the tacit presence of nuclear weapons on both sides of the border -- seemed to have ratcheted down.
As police and military authorities continue to piece together who was behind the attacks and what their goals were, the assault that some are calling India's version of Sept. 11 could threaten the country's financial, political and foreign policy standing.

After past terrorist attacks, Indian leaders have pointed the finger at Pakistani Islamic extremists or intelligence operatives, two forces that often team up for operations in South Asia. Pakistan's defense minister on Thursday condemned the Mumbai attacks and warned India to refrain from blaming Pakistan, a longtime rival.

Those who are raising the specter of ''India's 9/11,'' comparing the targeting of India's business elite and foreign investors to the 2001 attacks in the United States, point to the targets: Mumbai is South Asia's financial hub and an entertainment capital, and many of the glitzy targets symbolize the new cosmopolitan face of the world's largest democracy.

Western counterterrorism officials are watching for answers to the key issue: possible connections to foreign terrorism networks.

The timing and dimensions of the Thanksgiving eve assault on multiple Western targets suggest the involvement of al Qaeda or one of its Pakistani allies, according to two senior European counterterrorism officials.

But officials warned against speculation because the evidence remains limited and the incident is not resolved. Most al-Qaeda-linked attacks involve bombs and suicide attackers rather than well-trained, commando-style gunmen using automatic weapons and grenades to take hostages.

''The [modus operandi] is different than previous mass-casualty attacks,'' said a senior European counterterrorism official.

"It's too early to tell. We are not drawing any definitive conclusions.''

*Many analysts said the attacks were more likely to have been carried out by indigenous, Indian extremist groups blamed for a series of bombings this year rather than Pakistani-linked ones.*

*They also noted that India's government stood to benefit politically for hinting at the involvement of its old rival -- rather than admitting some of its own 145 million Muslims had become radicalized.*

*''It will always want to label this militancy as foreign rather than to accept it has its own problem,'' said Shaun Gregory, an expert on South Asian terrorism at the University of Bradford in Britain. ``That sells much more easily to the Indian public than admitting serious grievances within its Muslims.''*

Relations between India and Pakistan have improved in recent years, helped by a reduction in the flow of militants into Kashmir, the divided and violence-torn territory at the core of their dispute.

*EXTREMIST GROUP*

*In fact, an Indian extremist group could have pulled off the attacks to advance al Qaeda's war on the West, some experts said. Precedents would be the train bombings in 2004 in Madrid, Spain, or the Bali bombings in 2002, major strikes executed by local militants with only indirect ties -- training, ideological contacts -- to the core leaders of al Qaeda, said Louis Caprioli, a former counterterrorism chief in France.

In either scenario, the masterminds might have intended to send ''a challenge to the new president of the United States,'' said Louis Caprioli, a former counterterrorism chief in France.*

Christine Fair, senior political scientist and a South Asia expert at the RAND Corporation, said, "*There are a lot of very, very angry Muslims in India. The economic disparities are startling and India has been very slow to publicly embrace its rising Muslim problem. You cannot put lipstick on this pig. This is a major domestic political challenge for India.''*

'The public political face of India says, `Our Muslims have not been radicalized.' But the Indian intelligence apparatus knows that's not true. India's Muslim communities are being sucked into the global landscape of Islamist jihad.''

*DOMESTIC ISSUE*

"Indians will have a strong incentive to link this to al Qaeda. But this is a domestic issue. This is not India's 9/11."

In the short term, the terror attacks likely will depress stocks, dampen tourism and slow new investment, but are unlikely to inflict long-term damage on the nation's economy, analysts and business people said.

''This is a challenge for the government to maintain law and order in the country,'' said Takahira Ogawa, director of sovereign ratings at Standard & Poor's in Singapore. ``At this stage, I don't think there will be any major impact on the macroeconomic or fiscal position of the government.''


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## shchinese

Halaku Khan said:


> I hope India doesn't let the Pakistanis off the hook this time.
> 
> Indira and Mujib made a great mistake in not conducting war crimes trials for the 100,000 Pakistani soldiers that surrendered in 1971.



China made a even bigger mistake at that time as we were at the shitty Culture Revolution which seriously damaged our economy and military strength. The bad Sino-USSR relationship (about one million USSR troops deployed at Chinese border) at that time also stopped us providing more aid for Pakistan. 

Now, China is no longer that 1971 poor country. With the roads connections to Pakistan, I can honestly assure you that should there be any India-Pakistan conflict the consequence would be huge for India as you would see unlimited volume of goods/weapons/troops flow into Pakistan from those roads/railways/sea ports. 

Mate, I honestly suggest you to check the history of my country, our last major military operation was against Vietnam (which I don't support) in late 1970s, we didn't have any offensive operation in the past 30 years - this is VERY rare in our 5000 years of history. At the same time, the overall strength of our economy and technology have been largely improved. Threating the only ally of us is just NOT a good approach. You should also honestly remind yourself that China is the only country which had real conflicts with both the USSR and the US during the cold war. What your troops have ever achieved other than invading Pakistan when we couldn't offer more help? 

Last but not least, I suggest you to have a read of the following post, the overall economic and technology of we two countries are VERY different, you have a 30 years gap. Is it a smart thing to say "I hope India doesn't let the Pakistanis off the hook this time."? I don't think so. I don't think you will ever see this happen in your and your children's life time.

a small small Chinese city in the border region.

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## fatman17

*shchinese* - the indian media is claiming that the hand grenades used in this attack were of chinese origin.


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## smeaglegolum

s90 said:


> ^ i hope they have National Bank of Pakistan credit cards also,they were part tourist also



Hopefully they find some IDs, just like they did in kargil.


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## Munir

Neo said:


> Excellent!
> More and more western media is looking into the possibility of other elements than Pakistan or ISI alone.



It does suprise me that most Dutch papers are on the Indian side and just copy blindely the fingerpointing. Well, we can conclude that the intellectuel level of most Dutch papers is hardly average. Otherwise the Indian and Israeli influence is here a lot higher so they have a view that is supported.

The most influential research institute here is not blaiming Pakistan but more the internal problems in India.


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## Halaku Khan

dr.umer said:


> Technically India is back to square one with no clues and proofs.



Then why is your COAS and ISI chief going to Delhi? Seems to me there there is a lot of evidence including live captured Pakistani terrorists.


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## respectfullyyours

The Chinese grenades that these cowards seem to be using let out big bang when they off. Also, it seems that while throwing one of the grenades at a fire-tender at the Taj, a cell phone slipped out and fell down. The call details, without doubt, is interesting.

Breaking News : NSG Commandos resolve situation at Nariman House.

Seems like they finally put a hole in the heads of the cowards at Nariman House.


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## Munir

Halaku Khan said:


> Then why is your COAS and ISI chief going to Delhi? Seems to me there there is a lot of evidence including live captured Pakistani terrorists.



Are you realy from planet earth? Maybe because your intellegence, politicians and military fail in every aspect?

If it is 100% Pakistani then they would scream like girls... That is the usual practice. And do behave here.

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## Munir

shchinese said:


> should there be any real conflict between countries, they will see more Chinese made "products" in their population centers.



I thought Pak made a lot of grenades... Why using Chinese? O... I would have expected it. They need to link everything based on purely imagination.


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## Neo

Halaku Khan said:


> Then why is your COAS and ISI chief going to Delhi? Seems to me there there is a lot of evidence including live captured Pakistani terrorists.



Good will gesture. Its also in our own interests to see what evidence is found against Pakistan.

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## shchinese

respectfullyyours said:


> The Chinese grenades that these cowards seem to be using let out big bang when they off. Also, it seems that while throwing one of the grenades at a fire-tender at the Taj, a cell phone slipped out and fell down. The call details, without doubt, is interesting.
> 
> Breaking News : NSG Commandos resolve situation at Nariman House.
> 
> Seems like they finally put a hole in the heads of the cowards at Nariman House.



maybe should also blame China for supplying "communication" equipment for those attackers?


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## salman nedian

Halaku Khan said:


> I hope India doesn't let the Pakistanis off the hook this time.



If you want to fight than fight with us and we will teach u a lesson that u will never forget. Indians have internal problems they cant sort them out. Its better that start to fight we are waiting for u.

Go ahead!

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## Imran Khan

indian forces fail to recover hotels now use RPG-7 and dinamtes for compleatly distroy hotels


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## shchinese

imran khan said:


> indian forces fail to recover hotels now use RPG-7 and dinamtes for compleatly distroy hotels



their 1895 rifles need some upgrade. 



where are their arjun tanks?


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## Patriot

imran khan said:


> indian forces fail to recover hotels now use RPG-7 and dinamtes for compleatly distroy hotels


Really?I think our SSG commands could have done better job.Incompetent Indian Army and Incompetent India Intelligence and they say our Army is not good because they cant handle AQ which is far more dangerous then these terrorists and fully armed.


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## s90

Halaku Khan said:


> Then why is your COAS and ISI chief going to Delhi? Seems to me there there is a lot of evidence including live captured Pakistani terrorists.



Indian PM requested help in investigation not us


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## smeaglegolum

saadahmed said:


> Really?I think our SSG commands could have done better job.Incompetent Indian Army and Incompetent India Intelligence and they say our Army is not good because they cant handle AQ which is far more dangerous then these terrorists and fully armed.



Here goes another armchair analyst. First look at how incompetent your govt. and Army is before pointing fingers. So don't pass judgments.


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## smeaglegolum

*NARIMAN HOUSE ENCOUNTER OVER*

Mumbai: The National Security Guard commandos have secured the Nariman House, a Jewish centre, in Colaba (Mumbai). A team of NSG commandos come out of the Jewish centre with their arms raised on Friday evening, indicating that the siege is over.
Safety of hostages in the Jewish center is still unknown and even the fate of terrorists is still unclear.
The Jewish centre had earlier been badly damaged after a strong explosion took place at the third floor of the building.
Portions of the Jewish centre have been damaged after rocket-propelled grenades were launched as part of terrorist flush-out operation.
National Security Guard commandos had stormed the building where at least four people were believed to have been taken hostage by a group of heavily armed terrorists.
There was heavy exchange of fire at Nariman House and terrorists also lobbed grenades on the commando team.
NSG commandos entered the building early on Friday morning after rappelling from a helicopter onto the roof of the Jewish centre.
Meanwhile, the death toll has risen to 155 while 327 others have been injured in the terror attacks that began on Wednesday night. The dead include eight foreigners.


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## Flintlock

saadahmed said:


> Really?I think our SSG commands could have done better job.Incompetent Indian Army and Incompetent India Intelligence and they say our Army is not good because they cant handle AQ which is far more dangerous then these terrorists and fully armed.



Yes I remember how your army surrendered without a fight to terrorists.

Indian Commandos did a fantastic job.

Stop flaming.


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## Imran Khan

saadahmed said:


> Really?I think our SSG commands could have done better job.Incompetent Indian Army and Incompetent India Intelligence and they say our Army is not good because they cant handle AQ which is far more dangerous then these terrorists and fully armed.



no one this time compire SSG with indian commandos see images of lal masjid and today indiam commandos also with short eqepment check my dear sir


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## Zaheerkhan

s90 said:


> Indian PM requested help in investigation not us



Nope, he was summorned to India, and will be escorted by your army chief.!!!


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## Neo

Do we have estimates about the impact on local business yet? 
I'm affraid the loss will be in billions.


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## s90

*Israeli experts say Indian forces acted prematurely in Mumbai*

JERUSALEM: Indian Security forces were premature in storming the besieged prime premises taken over by the terrorists in Mumbai, Israeli security experts have opined. 

Criticising the handling of the hostage crisis, the experts said "Indians should have sanitized the area and first collected intelligence about the terrorists before launching flushing out operations," a media report here said. 

"In hostage situations, the first thing the forces are supposed to do is assemble at the scene and begin collecting intelligence,"a former official in Israel's famed anti-terror agency Shin Bet told 'The Jerusalem Post'. 

"In this case, it appears that the forces showed up at the scene and immediately began exchanging fire with the terrorists instead of first taking control of the area," he said. 

Defence officials told the daily that Israel was not planning on sending commando units but had offered the Indians any assistance they required.


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## Zaheerkhan

NARIMAN POINT (jewish place) ENCOUNTER OVER!!!



Huge sea of people gathered around the place, all shouting anti-Pakistan slogans.

THE HEAT IS ON PAKISTAN NOW!!


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## s90

Zaheerkhan said:


> Nope, he was summorned to India, and will be escorted by your army chief.!!!



The Prime Minster's spokesman Zahid Bashir said Singh had made a request to Gilani, asking him to send the ISI chief to India to "cooperate in the investigation of the Mumbai attacks and for sharing certain information".

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## respectfullyyours

shchinese said:


> China made a even bigger mistake at that time as we were at the shitty Culture Revolution which seriously damaged our economy and military strength. The bad Sino-USSR relationship (about one million USSR troops deployed at Chinese border) at that time also stopped us providing more aid for Pakistan.
> 
> Now, China is no longer that 1971 poor country. With the roads connections to Pakistan, I can honestly assure you that should there be any India-Pakistan conflict the consequence would be huge for India as you would see unlimited volume of goods/weapons/troops flow into Pakistan from those roads/railways/sea ports.
> 
> Mate, I honestly suggest you to check the history of my country, our last major military operation was against Vietnam (which I don't support) in late 1970s, we didn't have any offensive operation in the past 30 years - this is VERY rare in our 5000 years of history. At the same time, the overall strength of our economy and technology have been largely improved. Threating the only ally of us is just NOT a good approach. You should also honestly remind yourself that China is the only country which had real conflicts with both the USSR and the US during the cold war. What your troops have ever achieved other than invading Pakistan when we couldn't offer more help?
> 
> Last but not least, I suggest you to have a read of the following post, the overall economic and technology of we two countries are VERY different, you have a 30 years gap. Is it a smart thing to say "I hope India doesn't let the Pakistanis off the hook this time."? I don't think so. I don't think you will ever see this happen in your and your children's life time.
> 
> a small small Chinese city in the border region.



 Chinese are very peaceful people all right, if only they are wound up the right way. The democratic rights within that country has to be seen to be believed.

I am pleasantly surprised by the passion by which shchinese writes his post. Most of his tribe are controlled by intelligent semi-conductors and powered by solar batteries albeit making them work like clockwork, round the clock, void of emotion.


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## Awesome

Vinod2070 said:


> The dress and Muslim cap is their dress. That has nothing to do with Pakistan.
> 
> Show me one report that they carried Pakistan flag or supported Pakistan. This statement seems like a daydream to me. I never read a single report about this.
> 
> It seems to be along the same foot in the mouth disease that your captain showed in the T-20 final and made himself a fool in front of the world.


Just watch any of the Lahore Badshahs matches you'll see the Pakistani flag!


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## smeaglegolum

*Possible outside links to attackers eyed*

MUMBAI, Nov. 28 (UPI) -- The scale and sophistication of the Mumbai terror attacks suggest the perpetrators received training outside the country, counterterrorism experts say.
Although cautioning it was still too soon to make any definitive assessments, experts told The Washington Post Muslim terror groups with links to Pakistan, long active in the disputed Kashmir region, are likely suspects in the Mumbai attacks, in which teams of heavily armed gunmen killed 130 people and wounded hundreds more.

*"No indigenous Indian group has this level of capability," Bruce Riedel, a former South Asia analyst for the CIA and National Security Council, told the Post. "The goal is to damage the symbol of India's economic renaissance, undermine investor confidence and provoke an India-Pakistani crisis."*

*An unnamed U.S. counterterrorism official told the newspaper Lashkar-i-Taiba and Jaish-i-Muhammad, two terror groups based in Kashmir with alleged links to the Pakistan's intelligence services, may be behind the attacks.*

That's "the thing people are starting to look at. But I can't caution enough to treat it as a theory, a working assumption. It's still too early for hard and fast" conclusions, he said, adding, "What the Indians have in their favor is that they've got some of these guys."


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## Awesome

Zaheerkhan said:


> NARIMAN POINT (jewish place) ENCOUNTER OVER!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Huge sea of people gathered around the place, all shouting anti-Pakistan slogans.
> 
> THE HEAT IS ON PAKISTAN NOW!!


Keep shouting.

We'll sleep tight across the border.

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## dr.umer

Zaheerkhan said:


> Nope, he was summorned to India, and will be escorted by your army chief.!!!





Zaheerkhan said:


> No Sir, he was summorned for explaination after Pakistanis were found involved in this attack.



I can understand what you must be going through but stop wet dreaming now. 

*Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had requested the visit of Lieutenant-General Ahmed Shujaa Pasha when Pakistani leaders telephoned him in the wake of the attack, his spokesman said. *(Reuters)

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## Imran Khan

Zaheerkhan said:


> NARIMAN POINT (jewish place) ENCOUNTER OVER!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Huge sea of people gathered around the place, all shouting anti-Pakistan slogans.
> 
> THE HEAT IS ON PAKISTAN NOW!!



we never feel any hot your cityzens free what they shouting


----------



## smeaglegolum

Asim Aquil said:


> Just watch any of the Lahore Badshahs matches you'll see the Pakistani flag!



Yes it is true. Indeed there are some traitors in Hyderabad, especially in the Old city.


----------



## Awesome

Halaku Khan said:


> Then why is your COAS and ISI chief going to Delhi? Seems to me there there is a lot of evidence including live captured Pakistani terrorists.


Your PM begged us for our help.

Maybe now you'll actually get the culprits.

According to you ISI did it. Then why ask help from the BOSS of your enemy? 

Laughable.

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## Flintlock

Neo said:


> Do we have estimates about the impact on local business yet?
> I'm affraid the loss will be in billions.



Indian Stock market ended up!!


----------



## s90

Zaheerkhan said:


> NARIMAN POINT (jewish place) ENCOUNTER OVER!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Huge sea of people gathered around the place, all shouting anti-Pakistan slogans.
> 
> THE HEAT IS ON PAKISTAN NOW!!



"The safety of hostages in the Jewish residential complex is still unknown."


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## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> Your PM begged us for our help.
> 
> Maybe now you'll actually get the culprits.
> 
> According to you ISI did it. Then why ask help from the BOSS of your enemy?
> 
> Laughable.



Keep your friends close, your enemies closer.


----------



## josh18

Lets wait for a couple of days and we will come to know who is involved and who is not....


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## s90

Zaheerkhan said:


> No Sir, he was summorned for explaination after Pakistanis were found involved in this attack.



I quoted from ur Times of India,enjoy


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## dr.umer

s90 said:


> I quoted from ur Times of India,enjoy



s90, his comment is nothing more than an emotional rant.


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## s90

Indian Navy woke up again for another Commando operation now starting,dont know wht happened abt previous mission 

*Coast Guard launches major search operation in the Arabian Sea*

NEW DELHI: In view of revelations that the Mumbai attackers had sneaked in by the sea route, the Coast Guard (CG) on Friday launched a major search 
operation in the Arabian Sea to hunt for any suspicious ship and sanitise the maritime zone. 

The Coast Guard pressed into service several of its ships along with helicopters off the coast of Mumbai and Gujarat, an official spokesman said here. 

"We have sent majority of our ships and aircraft to carry out search operations in the Arabian Sea for carrying out search operations and sanitise India's Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ)," the spokesperson said. 

EEZ of a country is the 200-km maritime region from its shores. In Indian waters, the Coast Guard has the responsibility of looking after this region. 

Coast Guard and other water guarding agencies were put on an alert after intelligence agencies gave inputs about the involvement of a ship in Mumbai terror strikes and that it was trying to move out of Indian territorial waters towards Karachi in Pakistan. 

Coast Guard's aerial assets are also carrying out surveillance over the zone. Its air wing has a fleet of Dorniers, ALH Dhruv and Cheetah/Chetak helicopters deployed along the western coast. 

"Almost all the serviceable aircraft are flying search missions over EEZ in order to look for any suspicious movements in our zone," the spokesperson added.


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## dr.umer

josh18 said:


> Lets wait for a couple of days and we will come to know who is involved and who is not....



Yes, that's what we are saying here. It is early to blame Pakistan but your bias media doesn't understands.


----------



## Awesome

smeaglegolum said:


> Yes it is true. Indeed there are some traitors in Hyderabad, especially in the Old city.


Actually they just hate India rather than support Pakistan.

So many people who could've done it, yet you're just blaming Pakistan without a shred of evidence.


----------



## s90

Goodperson said:


> Nope they are going to provide advice to India about how to safeguard Nuclear installations in India and bring Nukes to Pakistan standards.



Kidding?


----------



## Zaheerkhan

Asim Aquil said:


> Your PM begged us for our help.
> 
> Maybe now you'll actually get the culprits.
> 
> According to you ISI did it. Then why ask help from the BOSS of your enemy?
> 
> Laughable.



Americans were attacked, Israelis were attacked, British were attacked, italian were attacked, dutch were attacked, Argentian were attacked, Greek were attacked, Thai were attacked, Australians were attacked, Japnese were attacked, Chinese were attacked. Mumbai is a global city.People of all these nationalities were present in Mumbai when it was attacked. If the Pakistani link is established to this attack, take it for granted that you are is serious trouble!!!! Nowonder your foreign minister is already in India, and your army and ISI chief are running to Delhi to explain things. Ther sure have a lot of things to explain.


----------



## shchinese

respectfullyyours said:


> Chinese are very peaceful people all right, if only they are wound up the right way. The democratic rights within that country has to be seen to be believed.



We are not peaceful people. We had wars with almost all neighbors - Korea/Vietnam/Russia/India.

Please don't fool us. 



respectfullyyours said:


> I am pleasantly surprised by the passion by which shchinese writes his post. Most of his tribe are controlled by intelligent semi-conductors and powered by solar batteries albeit making them work like clockwork, round the clock, void of emotion.



you can check some Chinese military forums, now people are openly discussing the possibility of having another war with you in the next few years. 

we are now in general convinced that you will launch more offensive craps in the months to come and actually the regime of India has already started upgrading some dead airports in the border region. 

nothing to hide, we are going to have war soon.


----------



## Zaheerkhan

Asim Aquil said:


> Actually they just hate India rather than support Pakistan.
> 
> So many people who could've done it, yet you're just blaming Pakistan without a shred of evidence.



just wait,inshallah,You will get all the evidence.


----------



## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> Keep shouting.
> 
> We'll sleep tight across the border.



They were not shouting anti-Pak slogans 

They were shouting "Bharat Mata ki Jai"


----------



## smeaglegolum

Asim Aquil said:


> Actually they just hate India rather than support Pakistan.
> 
> So many people who could've done it, yet you're just blaming Pakistan without a shred of evidence.



Some people believe in Islamic brotherhood rather than Nationalism. What can one do, apart from labeling them as traitors. Remember, we are democracy, we have take such abuses from such fools.


----------



## josh18

Goodperson said:


> Nope they are going to provide advice to India about how to safeguard Nuclear installations in India and bring Nukes to Pakistan standards.



They will come here to play 'Who Wants to Be a Millionaire'. I hope they have already started preparing for this.


----------



## dr.umer

Zaheerkhan said:


> Americans were attacked, Israelis were attacked, British were attacked, italian were attacked, dutch were attacked, Argentian were attacked, Greek were attacked, Thai were attacked, Australians were attacked, Japnese were attacked, Chinese were attacked. Mumbai is a global city.People of all these nationalities were present in Mumbai when it was attacked. If the Pakistani link is established to this attack, take it for granted that you are is serious trouble!!!! Nowonder your foreign minister is already in India, and your army and ISI chief are running to Delhi to explain things. Ther sure have a lot of things to explain.



There is no point is saying it again and again as you have been answered. 

Secondly, ISI will be sharing intelligence information of the terrorist outfits in Pakistan and abroad and that means lots of information about their origin, profiles, operation methods, weapons, aims and targets etc. 

This information is really helpful if India needs to move forward in this anti-terror campaign. 

Similarly Indian officials will show information that they have and then informations will be matched. Even if information of ISI and RAW match one another, strong possibility exist that it can fail to "establish link" of these attacks to Pakistan. 

Intelligence sharing doesn't always work as they tell you in media.


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## Neo

Zaheerkhan said:


> Americans were attacked, Israelis were attacked, British were attacked, italian were attacked, dutch were attacked, Argentian were attacked, Greek were attacked, Thai were attacked, Australians were attacked, Japnese were attacked, Chinese were attacked. Mumbai is a global city.People of all these nationalities were present in Mumbai when it was attacked. If the Pakistani link is established to this attack, take it for granted that you are is serious trouble!!!! Nowonder your foreign minister is already in India, and your army and ISI chief are running to Delhi to explain things. Ther sure have a lot of things to explain.



All those countries acknowledge AQ as the main threat and are not blinded by hatred. Let the Americans look into the evidence, I'm sure you'll be surprised to see how many local elements are involved.


----------



## smeaglegolum

*update*

*Five hostages dead in Nariman house*. Those animals and their masters will pay the price.


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## Awesome

Zaheerkhan said:


> Americans were attacked, Israelis were attacked, British were attacked, italian were attacked, dutch were attacked, Argentian were attacked, Greek were attacked, Thai were attacked, Australians were attacked, Japnese were attacked, Chinese were attacked. Mumbai is a global city.People of all these nationalities were present in Mumbai when it was attacked. If the Pakistani link is established to this attack, take it for granted that you are is serious trouble!!!! Nowonder your foreign minister is already in India, and your army and ISI chief are running to Delhi to explain things. Ther sure have a lot of things to explain.


If we wanted to attack then we wouldn't go around helping the Indians.

We wouldn't kill a host of nationalities when clues can easily be traced to Pakistan. If the idea was to take everyone on then we would say so.

Nothing makes sense.

Oh and no one's going to come to your rescue. You amassed 1 million troops against us before. Then you had concede defeat and go back!


----------



## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> They were not shouting anti-Pak slogans
> 
> They were shouting "Bharat Mata ki Jai"


I have no issues with slogans of "Jaya Hind". I will have issues with anti-Pak slogans.


----------



## Halaku Khan

Asim Aquil said:


> Your PM begged us for our help.
> 
> Maybe now you'll actually get the culprits.
> 
> According to you ISI did it. Then why ask help from the BOSS of your enemy?
> 
> Laughable.



Hmm... I think its more that the Pakistanis are feeling the heat.

Actually, I have posted on this before and I did not claim that this operation was approved at the highest levels in Pakistan - because attacking a Jewish center is a pretty dumb thing and the ISI is probably not that dumb.

But I do think it more than likely that one of your many Jihadi orgs is involved, and these folks do get backing from your establishment, even if they may not be fully under control.


----------



## Awesome

smeaglegolum said:


> Some people believe in Islamic brotherhood rather than Nationalism. What can one do, apart from labeling them as traitors. Remember, we are democracy, we have take such abuses from such fools.


And some of them also take over hotels and residential buildings and hold them hostages.

Indians did this.


----------



## shchinese

smeaglegolum said:


> *update*
> 
> *Five hostages dead in Nariman house*. Those animals and their masters will pay the price.



how about your policy makers who caused all these? 

they openly treat those Muslims so bad and now you are ignoring all such facts and just crying "Those animals and their masters will pay the price". 

btw: your army and special force chief should be removed immediately as the army and special force failed to eliminate all those terrorists on time and save those hostages.


----------



## Flintlock

*Press conference by Pakistan's foreign minister is taking place in Delhi*

-Open offer for help from ISI

-Calls terrorists "barbarians" and "we must collectively eliminate them"

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## Neo

ISI is extremely professional and can strike anywhere near the heart of India without leaving a trace. 
Its just too stupid to assume they'll leave SIM cards or ISI badges at the crime scene...damn hilarious. 

What we have sofar is only speculation, no hard evidence.


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## Awesome

Halaku Khan said:


> Hmm... I think its more that the Pakistanis are feeling the heat.
> 
> Actually, I have posted on this before and I did not claim that this operation was approved at the highest levels in Pakistan - because attacking a Jewish center is a pretty dumb thing and the ISI is probably not that dumb.
> 
> But I do think it more than likely that one of your many Jihadi orgs is involved, and these folks are backed by your establishment.


Why would our people do such a thing? It serves no purpose.

Some bombs blowing up would've been a lot more cleaner, it would've caused a lot more devastation and a lot more people would've died.

But no some kids got a hold of AKs and shot some 100 odd people.

First you say this was dumb, then ISI is not dumb then Jihadis did with our backing. That is the most stupid line of argument ever.


----------



## Imran Khan

*indian commandos at bombay*




*SSG at lal masjid*


----------



## smeaglegolum

shchinese said:


> how about your policy makers who caused all these?
> 
> they openly treat those Muslims so bad and now you are ignoring all such facts and just crying "Those animals and their masters will pay the price".
> 
> btw: your army and special force chief should be removed immediately as the army and special force failed to eliminate all those terrorists on time and save those hostages.



First look at yourself, how you are treating Muslims in Xinjiang and Tibetans in Tibet. So don't repeat like a robot same things again and again. Use some grey matter before writing stupid things.


----------



## Logic note

Asim Aquil said:


> If we wanted to attack then we wouldn't go around helping the Indians.
> 
> We wouldn't kill a host of nationalities when clues can easily be traced to Pakistan. If the idea was to take everyone on then we would say so.
> 
> Nothing makes sense.
> 
> Oh and no one's going to come to your rescue. You amassed 1 million troops against us before. Then you had concede defeat and go back!




First We know whats the Definition of your 'WE", not only we but the rest of the world knows . and fortunatly now even you know whats your "WE" is .

Defeat?? there was no war ..
whenever there was a war we know what happened .. Remember Bangladesh and Kargil ? that was war .

No I am not trying to be arrogant .. but asking your arrogance to calm down .. accept the reality that your society has collected too much of Bitterness and hatred in its collective psyche, not only for us but for its own existence , they find refuse in excuses and its this deformity has led to where your country is now .


----------



## shchinese

Neo said:


> ISI is extremely professional and can strike anywhere near the heart of India without leaving a trace.
> Its just too stupid to assume they'll leave SIM cards or ISI badges at the crime scene...damn hilarious.
> 
> What we have sofar is only speculation, no hard evidence.



but some Indians here are happily mixing their imagination with the pure nationalism, blindly follow whatever the media are telling them


----------



## Awesome

Neo said:


> ISI is extremely professional and can strike anywhere near the heart of India without leaving a trace.
> Its just too stupid to assume they'll leave SIM cards or ISI badges at the crime scene...damn hilarious.
> 
> What we have sofar is only speculation, no hard evidence.


Exactly my point. IF this was retaliation for what India did at the Marriot, then we could've easily just blown away the Taj, the Oberoi, the Trident and called it a day.

Instead kids were fighting with AKs and grenades.


----------



## Vinod2070

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Pakistani nuclear safeguards are widely acknowledged to be far better and more advanced than the Indian ones, and the US has provided technical and financial input into making that happen (there is a sticky thread devoted to the safeguards I believe).
> 
> After the intel and security failures here, I'd be more worried about terrorists getting ahold of Indian nukes and using them in India, unless India gets its safeguards up to Pakistani standards.



Just think of why the USA needed to help you secure it (and if rumours are to be believed, they effectively control it).

And the Pakistani record in intel and security failures is much worse including in Bajaur. 

I hate to get into such discussions but there is a reason why the magazines like Newsweek and the Economist came up with the cover stories on Pakistan. Things have only gone South from then.

I suggest co-operation instead of the laughable "holier than thou" attitude.

It is really amusing to see people here getting worried about Indian nuclear weapons when the World is worried about another country that claims that a single rogue Scientist could use the military planes to indulge in proliferation.


----------



## Neo

josh18 said:


> Lets wait for a couple of days and we will come to know who is involved and who is not....



Hope your governement this time will share the evidence instead of just crying loud who did it.


----------



## smeaglegolum

Asim Aquil said:


> And some of them also take over hotels and residential buildings and hold them hostages.
> 
> *Indians did this.*



Not yet official if they are Indians. But for sure some them are declared *pakistani nationals* officially.


----------



## Logic note

imran khan said:


> *indian commandos at bombay*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SSG at lal masjid*



Dude bravery has no nationality , race or religion it has only cause and responsibility . so stop comparing .


----------



## nitesh

smeaglegolum said:


> *update*
> 
> *Five hostages dead in Nariman house*. Those animals and their masters will pay the price.



This is the problem with our media. They are not dead they are MURDERED. Those cowards


----------



## Vinod2070

> Originally Posted by Asim Aquil
> Your PM begged us for our help.
> 
> Maybe now you'll actually get the culprits.
> 
> According to you ISI did it. Then why ask help from the BOSS of your enemy?
> 
> Laughable.



Did CIA also beg the then ISI chief for his help after 9/11?

He was held up there for some time I know.


----------



## Awesome

Logic note said:


> First We know whats the Definition of your 'WE", not only we but the rest of the world knows . and fortunatly now even you know whats your "WE" is .
> 
> Defeat?? there was no war ..
> whenever there was a war we know what happened .. Remember Bangladesh and Kargil ? that was war .
> 
> No I am not trying to be arrogant .. but asking your arrogance to calm down .. accept the reality that your society has collected too much of Bitterness and hatred in its collective psyche, not only for us but for its own existence , they find refuse in excuses and its this deformity has led to where your country is now .


Dude, I'm very arrogant as is all of Pakistan. Don't threaten us with war, bring it.

If you want help in catching any culprits, even if they are in Pakistan we will help you.

A lot of foreign bombings have happened and the terrorists were found to have links to madrassahs in Pakistan. We helped EVERYONE. Why won't we help India?


----------



## Logic note

shchinese said:


> but some Indians here are happily mixing their imagination with the pure nationalism, blindly follow whatever the media are telling them



heard of Taliban ? oh no they were produced by USA and UK .. 
Some people dont change or learn .


----------



## Halaku Khan

Asim Aquil said:


> Why would our people do such a thing? It serves no purpose.
> 
> Some bombs blowing up would've been a lot more cleaner, it would've caused a lot more devastation and a lot more people would've died.
> 
> But no some kids got a hold of AKs and shot some 100 odd people.
> 
> First you say this was dumb, then ISI is not dumb then Jihadis did with our backing. That is the most stupid line of argument ever.



That was somewhat badly phrased, I have edited that post now. I was saying that the many Jihadi Orgs do get backing from your establishment, even if they may not be fully under control. 

I think the LeT is both capable enough and dumb enough to do this. 

See this: The Hindu : National : Lashkar tested sea route to Mumbai in 2007 dry run


----------



## Vinod2070

Neo said:


> ISI is extremely professional and can strike anywhere near the heart of India without leaving a trace.
> Its just too stupid to assume they'll leave SIM cards or ISI badges at the crime scene...damn hilarious.
> 
> What we have sofar is only speculation, no hard evidence.



Not so professional and competent it would seem, given the complete surprise that your troops had in Bajaur.

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## Logic note

Asim Aquil said:


> Dude, I'm very arrogant as is all of Pakistan. Don't threaten us with war, bring it.
> 
> If you want help in catching any culprits, even if they are in Pakistan we will help you.
> 
> A lot of foreign bombings have happened and the terrorists were found to have links to madrassahs in Pakistan. We helped EVERYONE. Why won't we help India?



Heard of Dawood ?
and you helped everyone because 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/sep/22/pakistan.usa


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## josh18

Neo said:


> Hope your governement this time will share the evidence instead of just crying loud who did it.



This might happen once the head of ISI is here.


----------



## Awesome

Vinod2070 said:


> Did CIA also beg the then ISI chief for his help after 9/11?
> 
> He was held up there for some time I know.


We have helped everyone if any PAkistani is found to have links with Pakistan.

India just never plays ball and never conducts the investigation and never involves us in the process.

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## Chanakya.10

shchinese said:


> but some Indians here are happily mixing their imagination with the pure nationalism, blindly follow whatever the media are telling them



Atleast our media is not state controlled, like our red neighbours........

Anyone can take a guess whose media is biased......

Ever heared of Tiannmann Square massacre in Chinese sites......

Kings of hipocracy......


----------



## dr.umer

Chanakya.10 said:


> Atleast our media is not state controlled, like our red neighbours........
> 
> Anyone can take a guess whose media is biased......
> 
> Ever heared of Tiannmann Square massacre in Chinese sites......
> 
> Kings of hipocracy......



Let's try not to derail thread please.


----------



## josh18

Asim Aquil said:


> Dude, I'm very arrogant as is all of Pakistan. Don't threaten us with war, bring it.
> 
> If you want help in catching any culprits, even if they are in Pakistan we will help you.
> 
> A lot of foreign bombings have happened and the terrorists were found to have links to madrassahs in Pakistan. We helped EVERYONE. Why won't we help India?



I appreciate you speaking like that... You are better than your PM or President...at least straight to the point.


----------



## smeaglegolum

GoP couldn't even capture perpetrators of Benazir Bhuttos assassination. Kudos to your ISI.


----------



## Neo

Vinod2070 said:


> Did CIA also beg the then ISI chief for his help after 9/11?
> 
> He was held up there for some time I know.



No...CIA was busy cleaning up her own mess she created. She did ask us to destroy all evidence for CIA money being transferred to those later linked in Twin Tower bombings.


----------



## Flintlock

This is regular army. Not NSG Commandos.




imran khan said:


> *indian commandos at bombay*


----------



## Awesome

Halaku Khan said:


> That was somewhat badly phrased, I have edited that post now. I was saying that the many Jihadi Orgs do get backing from your establishment, even if they may not be fully under control.
> 
> I think the LeT is both capable enough and dumb enough to do this.
> 
> See this: The Hindu : National : Lashkar tested sea route to Mumbai in 2007 dry run


We do not support the LeT.

We do however support the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen.

And there is clearly a difference in the way the Hizb works and the way the LeT works.

Hizb doesn't attack outside Kashmir. Kashmir is fair game. Mumbai is not.


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## Chanakya.10

We can talk about this to our Pakistani friends, but a chinese giving lectures here is like an outsider........ He knows nothing about us South Asian people........

Tell him to stop giving useless flaming posts.........


----------



## Imran Khan

Vinod2070 said:


> Did CIA also beg the then ISI chief for his help after 9/11?
> 
> He was held up there for some time I know.



you 100% wrong sir when 9\11 happens jenral mehmood was there before a week for visit usa not held aaaaaaaaahhhhhh indian pride


----------



## nitesh

smeaglegolum said:


> *update*
> 
> *Five hostages dead in Nariman house*. Those animals and their masters will pay the price.



This is the problem with our media. They are not dead they are MURDERED. Those cowards


----------



## s90

Vinod2070 said:


> Not so professional and competent it would seem, given the complete surprise that your troops had in Bajaur.



In bajaur its tribal system and its independent and it wasnt as if Karachi,better worry about invasion by surprise at ur financial city


----------



## Awesome

smeaglegolum said:


> GoP couldn't even capture perpetrators of Benazir Bhuttos assassination. Kudos to your ISI.


At least we didn't blame India when we couldn't catch any of them.

Btw, our government has accused the TTP chief.


----------



## smeaglegolum

An interesting observation

9/11 happened - ISI chief was in US
Parliament attack happened - pakistan FM was in India
Mumbai attack happened - pakistan FM was in India

Hmmm......


----------



## Munir

Zaheerkhan said:


> NARIMAN POINT (jewish place) ENCOUNTER OVER!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Huge sea of people gathered around the place, all shouting anti-Pakistan slogans.
> 
> THE HEAT IS ON PAKISTAN NOW!!



Well, what can you expect from narrow minded people? If you have democarcy where people can make conclusions without the need for decent research... I think that if people in western world accept wrong reasons to go to war then what can we expect from those that are attacked this way? Running around in streets and now shouting slogans... What about heat is on? You must be a wise guy... The heat is on your nation and I wish you luck with that...


----------



## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> We do not support the LeT.
> 
> We do however support the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen.
> 
> And there is clearly a difference in the way the Hizb works and the way the LeT works.
> 
> Hizb doesn't attack outside Kashmir. Kashmir is fair game. Mumbai is not.



All terrorist acts are, well terrorist acts. Your own PM Zardari agrees with me. 

If you support Hizb and condemn LeT, you are expressing the same double standards towards terrorism which got your country in trouble in the first place.

You cannot support one strain of terrorism and denounce the other. Terrorism does not work that way. 

I was hoping that you had learnt your lesson, but it doesn't seem so.


----------



## Awesome

Logic note said:


> Heard of Dawood ?
> and you helped everyone because
> 
> Bush threatened to bomb Pakistan, says Musharraf | World news | The Guardian


Heard of Dubai?

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## Logic note

s90 said:


> In bajaur its tribal system and its independent and it wasnt as if Karachi,better worry about invasion by surprise at ur financial city



Yes fighting in a tribal area is much easier then urban combat where there are hostages involved ., but worry about being a failed country first .


----------



## Neo

Vinod2070 said:


> Not so professional and competent it would seem, given the complete surprise that your troops had in Bajaur.



You guys give ISI more credit than any other nation anyway. We know our intelligence has failed domestically at sevral occasions but never in history they left an ISI badge behind...man its even too amaturistic for a bad Bollywood scenario.


----------



## Imran Khan

Chanakya.10 said:


> We can talk about this to our Pakistani friends, but a chinese giving lectures here is like an outsider........ He knows nothing about us South Asian people........
> 
> Tell him to stop giving useless flaming posts.........



he is nt out sider he is our sider and this is forum any one can post here even from ANTARTIKA


----------



## was

Chanakya.10 said:


> Atleast our media is not state controlled, like our red neighbours........



infact your media is only barking ,,pakistan did it,, ,,pakistan did it
your media is only spreading hate


----------



## josh18

Vinod2070 said:


> Not so professional and competent it would seem, given the complete surprise that your troops had in Bajaur.





Asim Aquil said:


> We do not support the LeT.
> 
> We do however support the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen.
> 
> And there is clearly a difference in the way the Hizb works and the way the LeT works.
> 
> Hizb doesn't attack outside Kashmir. Kashmir is fair game. Mumbai is not.



Spreading terror anywhere is not a fair game be it Mumbai, Kashmir or Karachi....Those who use guns against civilians cannot be called freedom fighters or Jehadis..


----------



## Chanakya.10

> you 100&#37; wrong sir when 911 happens jenral mehmood was there before a week for visit usa not held aaaaaaaaahhhhhh indian pride



Your General Mehmood, head of ISI transferred $10,000 in the account of mohammad atta, the chief 911 suspect............

Y would the chief of respected intelligence agency like ISI would do that? 
I have heard on this forum that ISI has no links with terrorists.....Really?


----------



## smeaglegolum

*Couldn't get better than this*


*Pak troops violate ceasefire*

Jammu, Nov 28 (PTI) Pakistani troops opened fire on Indian positions along LoC in Poonch district of Jammu and Kashmir, the second ceasefire violation in as many days, a senior army officer said today.
Pakistani soldiers fired on Indian position in Tarkundi belt along Line of Control in Poonch district 2100 hours last night, the officer told PTI.

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## Logic note

Asim Aquil said:


> Heard of Dubai?


 yes but I think you havent heard of Karachi i think .

OFFICE OF FOREIGN ASSETS CONTROL


----------



## Awesome

Vinod2070 said:


> Not so professional and competent it would seem, given the complete surprise that your troops had in Bajaur.


Speaking of professionalism... How long did it take PA to clean up Lal Masjid with hundreds of terrorists and hundreds of civilians as hostage. Oh and those terrorists had RPGs, mortars, rockets, AAA...

8 hours? 

Compare the stats.

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## dr.umer

Chanakya.10 said:


> Your General Mehmood, head of ISI transferred $10,000 in the account of mohammad atta, the chief 911 suspect............
> 
> Y would the chief of respected intelligence agency like ISI would do that?
> I have heard on this forum that ISI has no links with terrorists.....Really?



Is US that dumb not to arrest General Mehmood if it was true ? 

And if this is true then I salute ISI being more powerful than CIA.

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## s90

Chanakya.10 said:


> Your General Mehmood, head of ISI transferred $10,000 in the account of mohammad atta, the chief 911 suspect............
> 
> Y would the chief of respected intelligence agency like ISI would do that?
> I have heard on this forum that ISI has no links with terrorists.....Really?



9/11 is different matter,CIA was also very much involved for america's own interests,so stick to topic


----------



## Imran Khan

> Your General Mehmood, head of ISI transferred $10,000 in the account of mohammad atta, the chief 911 suspect............



its made in india news or some new joke i even never read this in 9\11 commintion report


----------



## Chanakya.10

> Pak troops violate ceasefire



Some people are really happy.... There are nearly 90 violations of ceasefire by pakistani troops this year only....................


----------



## josh18

smeaglegolum said:


> *Couldn't get better than this*
> 
> 
> *Pak troops violate ceasefire*
> 
> Jammu, Nov 28 (PTI) Pakistani troops opened fire on Indian positions along LoC in Poonch district of Jammu and Kashmir, the second ceasefire violation in as many days, a senior army officer said today.
> Pakistani soldiers fired on Indian position in Tarkundi belt along Line of Control in Poonch district 2100 hours last night, the officer told PTI.



Thats another issue.. they keep on doing that every week or so..but at least they are not killng innocent people and are challenging the military...


----------



## Munir

josh18 said:


> Spreading terror anywhere is not a fair game be it Mumbai, Kashmir or Karachi....Those who use guns against civilians cannot be called freedom fighters or Jehadis..



Tamil Tigers?


----------



## Awesome

Logic note said:


> yes but I think you havent heard of Karachi i think .
> 
> OFFICE OF FOREIGN ASSETS CONTROL


He's in Dubai

He has chains of restaurants here, called Ibrahimi restaurant and often dines in them! He has links to Pakistani mafia, but not the government. He has links to some local big shots of ME though. He does all their dirty work.

But you guys are just mum about them because you don't want to lose their business.

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## smeaglegolum

Asim Aquil said:


> Heard of Dubai?



Heard of Interpol?



> Present family name: KASKAR
> Forename: DAWOOD IBRAHIM
> Sex: MALE
> Date of birth: 26 December 1955 (52 years old)
> Place of birth: RATNAGIRI, India
> Language spoken: English, Hindi, Urdu
> Nationality: India
> Other Names: ABDUL HAMID ABDUL AZIZ; ANIS IBRAHIM; AZIZ DILIP; DAUD HASAN SHAIKH IBRAHIM KASKAR; DAUD IBRAHIM MEMON; DAUD IBRAHIM MEMON KASKAR; DAUDHASAN SHAIKH IBRAHIM KASKAR; DAWOOD EBRAHIM ; DAWOOD HASAN IBRAHIM KASKAR; DAWOOD HASSAN; DAWOOD HASSAN SHEIKH; DAWOOD IBRAHIM; DAWOOD IBRAHIM KASKAR; DAWOOD IBRAHIM MEMON; DAWOOD SABRI; DAWOORD IBRAHIM; DOWOOD HASSAN SHAIKH IBRAHIM; HIZRAT ; IBRAHIM SHAIKH MOHD ANIS; KASKAR DAWOOD HASAN; SHAIKH DAUD HASAN; SHAIKH ISMAIL ABDUL; SHAIKH MOHD ISMAIL ABDUL REHMAN; SHEIKH DAWOOD HASSAN ; SHEIKH IBRAHIM
> 
> Other Places of Birth: BOMBAY
> Identity Documents
> Type Nr Issued on Place of Issue
> PASSPORT A-333602 4 June 1985 BOMBAY (India)
> PASSPORT M110522 13 November 1978 (India)
> PASSPORT R841697 26 November 1981 (India)
> PASSPORT F823692 (JEDDAH) 2 September 1989 (Yemen)
> PASSPORT A501801 (BOMBAY) 26 July 1985 (India)
> PASSPORT K560098 (BOMBAY) 30 July 1975 (India)
> PASSPORT V57865 (BOMBAY) 3 October 1983
> PASSPORT P537849 (BOMBAY) 30 July 1979
> PASSPORT A717288 (MISUSE) 18 August 1985 (United Arab Emirates)
> PASSPORT K560098 (MISUSE) 30 July 1975 (India)
> *PASSPORT G866537 (MISUSE) 12 August 1991 (Pakistan)*
> 
> 
> Physical description
> Height: 1.67 meter <-> 66 inches
> Colour of eyes: BLACK
> Colour of hair: BLACK
> Distinguishing marks and characteristics: MOLE ON LEFT EYEBROW
> 
> Addresses
> *WHITE HOUSE, NEAR SAUDI MOSQUE, CLIFTON in KARACHI (Pakistan)*
> 
> 
> Additional Information
> Passport N? 333602 is issued on 4 June 1985 in Bombay, India (passport subsequently revoked by the Government of India).
> International arrest warrant issued by the Government of India.
> 
> 
> UN Sanctions
> Pursuant to Security Council Resolution 1267 (1999) and successor resolutions, including Resolution 1735 (2006), the Subject is under the following UN Sanctions: Freezing of Assets, Travel Ban and Arms Embargo. The Subject has the following permanent reference number on the list maintained by the UN Security Council Al-Qaida and Taliban Sanctions Committee (1267 Committee) which appears in the Special Notice for this subject: QI.K.135.03.
> 
> http://www.interpol.int/public/Data/NoticesUN/Notices/Data/1993/93/1993_14193.asp

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## Neo

Chanakya.10 said:


> Atleast our media is not state controlled, like our red neighbours........
> 
> Anyone can take a guess whose media is biased......



Ya ya...we all know how professional your media is:
Taj declared free
Taj under siege
Taj declared free
Not freed yet
Taj declared free
Another shot and explosion seen at Taj
Taj declared free
Lets bring a terrorist with bad fake accent...
Taj declared free
Shooting continues at Taj
IN intercepts Pakistani boatd speeding to Pakistani waters
Ohh sorry...boats registered in Gujrat 

Should I continue..?

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## Awesome

Logic note said:


> yes but I think you havent heard of Karachi i think .
> 
> OFFICE OF FOREIGN ASSETS CONTROL


He's in Dubai

He has chains of restaurants here, called Ibrahimi restaurant and often dines in them! He has links to Pakistani mafia, but not the government. He has links to some local big shots of ME though. He does all their dirty work.

But you guys are just mum about them because you don't want to lose their business.


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## Imran Khan

Chanakya.10 said:


> Some people are really happy.... There are nearly 90 violations of ceasefire by pakistani troops this year only....................



fake news its mean india perpaired for new standoff


----------



## XYON

1. I am disappointed in the so-called Indian Special Forces, NSG, Black Cats whatever! Seeing them repel in BDU from the special Mi-17 on the roof-top reminded me of the Saudi Commandos in a similar situation few years back! Poor, very poor! 3 days and still they cannot flush out a handful of literally untrained and ill-equipped (AK-47, Grenades against fully BDU Commandos?) t-shirt wearing teenagers!

2. Indian visit of the ISI head and our Army Chief is more of a politicians wet dream then anything else! 

3. What the hell is Shah Mehmood Qureshi doing still in India? He should get on the next flight and come back in light of the typical blame-game being played by the Indian PM and his co-horts!

4. I think Indians in this forum give themselves too much credit on being nationalistic! Stop the holier-than-thou attitude and start addressing your problems in your own backyard than blaming me and my country for you own national impotence!

5. Its high time our leadership (political) to take constant BS from the Indian State on blaming Pakistan. Frankly enough is enough!

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## dr.umer

smeaglegolum said:


> *Couldn't get better than this*
> 
> 
> *Pak troops violate ceasefire*
> 
> Jammu, Nov 28 (PTI) Pakistani troops opened fire on Indian positions along LoC in Poonch district of Jammu and Kashmir, the second ceasefire violation in as many days, a senior army officer said today.
> Pakistani soldiers fired on Indian position in Tarkundi belt along Line of Control in Poonch district 2100 hours last night, the officer told PTI.





Chanakya.10 said:


> Some people are really happy.... There are nearly 90 violations of ceasefire by pakistani troops this year only....................





josh18 said:


> Thats another issue.. they keep on doing that every week or so..but at least they are not kiing innocent people and are challenging the military...



Let's not derail thread friends.


----------



## XYON

1. I am disappointed in the so-called Indian Special Forces, NSG, Black Cats whatever! Seeing them repel in BDU from the special Mi-17 on the roof-top reminded me of the Saudi Commandos in a similar situation few years back! Poor, very poor! 3 days and still they cannot flush out a handful of literally untrained and ill-equipped (AK-47, Grenades against fully BDU Commandos?) t-shirt wearing teenagers!

2. Indian visit of the ISI head and our Army Chief is more of a politicians wet dream then anything else! 

3. What the hell is Shah Mehmood Qureshi doing still in India? He should get on the next flight and come back in light of the typical blame-game being played by the Indian PM and his co-horts!

4. I think Indians in this forum give themselves too much credit on being nationalistic! Stop the holier-than-thou attitude and start addressing your problems in your own backyard than blaming me and my country for you own national impotence!

5. Its high time our leadership (political) to take constant BS from the Indian State on blaming Pakistan. Frankly enough is enough!


----------



## Munir

Chanakya.10 said:


> Some people are really happy.... There are nearly 90 violations of ceasefire by pakistani troops this year only....................



Well, still less compared to raping entire Kashmiri nation. I think I will call them freedomfighters... And Indians as occupational forces spreading terror...But Mumbay was not correct. If one wants to fight then go fight soldiers.

Still this plan has academic levels... The mastermind is very important to get and to be eradicated.

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## Logic note

Neo said:


> You guys give ISI more credit than any other nation anyway. We know our intelligence has failed domestically at sevral occasions but never in history they left an ISI badge behind...man its even too amaturistic for a bad Bollywood scenario.



No they have not failed , may be they are hand in gloves in all those incidents .they know how to win battles ( but hitting from back with surprise) but they don't have the army and the intellect of leaders to win the war .

because War is more about long term planning with inputs from social , military , economical and espionage department.


----------



## Awesome

It so happens that the operation in Nariman is not over yet.

Some guy with a loud speaker just anounced it to the public standing there.

What stupidity, why making it into a tamasha and involving the public.


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## Chanakya.10

Neo said:


> Ya ya...we all know how professional your media is:
> Taj declared free
> Taj under siege
> Taj declared free
> Not freed yet
> Taj declared free
> Another shot and explosion seen at Taj
> Taj declared free
> Lets bring a terrorist with bad fake accent...
> Taj declared free
> Shooting continues at Taj
> IN intercepts Pakistani boatd speeding to Pakistani waters
> Ohh sorry...boats registered in Gujrat
> 
> Should I continue..?




*
I think you need to read the difference between MIS-REPORTING and BIASING.....

In India even a 10th standard kid knows the difference........
*


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Zaheerkhan said:


> *PAKISTAN ISI CHIEF SUMMONED TO INDIA, Pakistan Army chief Ashfaq Parvez Kayani TO ACCOMPANY HIM TO INDIA*





Zaheerkhan said:


> Nope, he was summorned to India, and will be escorted by your army chief.!!!


The arrogant and flawed headline from the Indian media cannot be blamed on you, but you are responsible for your words on this forum.

The Indian PM *requested *for the ISI chief to *help*. We did not have to oblige, but we are. Get off your attitude - people like you are the reason why India is considered a colonialist, arrogant bully in the region.

Next time you insult our political and military leadership in this manner you are gone for flaming.


Indicom said:


> Well he has a lot to explain & share.


He has nothing to 'explain', and I doubt he will have information to 'share'. 

The Indians will be 'sharing' with him, if there is any veracity to the claims of some groups in Pakistan being involved, and that information will possibly be used back in Pakistan to move against certain groups and individuals. 

Again, this will all depend upon what evidence India has obtained till the time of his visit and can share.

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## josh18

Munir said:


> Tamil Tigers?



LTTE is acknowledged as a terrorist organisation and not a Jehadi group by the Govt. of India and alos by the people of India.


----------



## s90

September 15, 2008 Next Mumbai: Indian Mujahideen

&#8220;If this is the degree your arrogance has reached, and if you think that by these stunts you can scare us, then let the Indian Mujahideen warn all the people of Mumbai that whatever deadly attacks Mumbaikars will face in future, their responsibility would lie with the Mumbai ATS and their guardians &#8211; Vilasrao Deshmukh and R R Patil*,&#8221; the email said. &#8220;You are already on our hit-list and this time very very seriously.&#8221;*


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## Munir

Logic note said:


> No they have not failed , may be they are hand in gloves in all those incidents .they know how to win battles ( but hitting from back with surprise) but they don't have the army and the intellect of leaders to win the war .
> 
> because War is more about long term planning with inputs from social , military , economical and espionage department.



India has its own internal problems. Get real. You should focus on that rather doing the usual inferiority complex reaction.


----------



## Chanakya.10

Asim Aquil said:


> It so happens that the operation in Nariman is not over yet.
> 
> Some guy with a loud speaker just anounced it to the public standing there.
> 
> What stupidity, why making it into a tamasha and* involving the public.*




Y should not????

People have lost their relatives and loved ones..... Should not they be concerned????


----------



## Chanakya.10

Munir said:


> India has its own internal problems. Get real. You should focus on that rather doing the usual *inferiority complex reaction*.




u mean to say we feel inferior to pakistanis?????


----------



## Logic note

Munir said:


> India has its own internal problems. Get real. You should focus on that rather doing the usual inferiority complex reaction.



Lol who doesnt have problem , name one country .. but we all know which country is labeled as on the brink of failed state .. so rather you should focus on taking care of inferiority complex .


----------



## Munir

Chanakya.10 said:


> *
> I think you need to read the difference between MIS-REPORTING and BIASING.....
> 
> In India even a 10th standard kid knows the difference........
> *



So we are (just like the western specialists) less then 10th standard Indian kid? You must be kidding...?


----------



## Logic note

Munir said:


> So we are (just like the western specialists) less then 10th standard Indian kid? You must be kidding...?



No we are serious


----------



## Munir

Logic note said:


> Lol who doesnt have problem , name one country .. but we all know which country is labeled as on the brink of failed state .. so rather you should focus on taking care of inferiority complex .



Well, atleast we did have Al Qaida... You guys kill your own people... Gujarat?


----------



## was

why isi is so pain in the butt for indians?


----------



## Flintlock

*A US Investigation team is heading to India*


----------



## s90

Terrorism expert Prof Rohan Gunaratna tells BBC World News: "The attacks bear all the hallmarks of al-Qaeda. Certainly, those attackers were inspired by al-Qaeda methodology."

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## Chanakya.10

Munir said:


> So we are (just like the western specialists) less then 10th standard Indian kid? You must be kidding...?





I did not say or mean that.........

But i asked about* biased* media, and the reply i got was of *misreportings*.... u know it has no connection...............

There is a diference between a MISTAKE and a MISCHIEF.....


----------



## Munir

It reminds me of LionKing....


Mufassa Mufassa Mufassa...






So in India it is:

ISI... ISI... ISI...

It scares them.


----------



## Neo

Chanakya.10 said:


> Your General Mehmood, head of ISI transferred $10,000 in the account of mohammad atta, the chief 911 suspect............
> 
> Y would the chief of respected intelligence agency like ISI would do that?
> I have heard on this forum that ISI has no links with terrorists.....Really?



Yes the money was transferred to Atta and it was $100.000, not just $10.000. Initially the trnsfer was mentioned in 9/11 comission report but later removed when they found out the money origibated from CIA funds.
There's a lot more to 9/11 report than you know, but leave it for some other thread.

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## Logic note

Munir said:


> Well, atleast we did have Al Qaida... You guys kill your own people... Gujarat?



are you equating a riot with the bankrupt scenario of your state ?
someone talked about inferiority complex and 10th standard .


----------



## s90

Iam really amazed that Indian media keep saying Pakistani Pakistani but why these media outlets dont call RAW cheif Ashok Chaturvedi and ask him y such a massive intel failure?


----------



## Logic note

was said:


> why isi is so pain in the butt for indians?


 yes it is pain in the butt for indians and even Americans .. but it is biggest pain for Pakistan ..


----------



## josh18

Munir said:


> It reminds me of LionKing....
> 
> 
> Mufassa Mufassa Mufassa...
> 
> So in India it is:
> 
> ISI... ISI... ISI...
> 
> It scares them.




Thats is why ISI chief is coming here...to scare us...


----------



## dr.umer

*World media see intelligence failures in Mumbai​*
28 Nov 2008

PARIS - The carnage wreaked by Islamic militants in Mumbai has cemented South Asias status as the most dangerous place on earth, the worlds media said Friday, urging India not to rush to blame Pakistan.

While domestic newspapers lashed the government over the intelligence lapses which led to the attacks, the international press cautioned that any response must not further destabilise the region.

The Terrorist Escalation, said the front-page headline of Frances left-leaning Liberation, whose editorial spoke of an arc of crisis that stretches across South Asia, the most dangerous region in the world. 

Spains El Pais daily said while it was tempting for India to blame its arch rival Pakistan for its worst nightmare, the attacks appeared to be symptomatic of a wider malaise in the region.

Everything suggests that India, which is used to fighting local separatists and guerrillas, is facing its own Islamic terrorism, said the top-selling daily.

Indias Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee said on Friday that preliminary information pointed to some elements in Pakistan being responsible for the attacks which have left at least 130 people dead.

However Britains left-leaning Guardian newspaper said the attacks must not derail recent moves to put troubled Indian-Pakistan ties back on track.

India, naturally shaken by the slaughter of its civilians, must not allow the rapprochement with Pakistan to be derailed, for this is exactly what the militants want, it said.

The governments of India and Pakistan will need to strain every sinew to stay on the path of detente.

Papers in the Arab world also urged India not to play into the hands of extremists with its reaction.

It (India) has proved time and again that its democratic principles of tolerance are deeply rooted, said the Dubai-based Gulf News.

Many religious extremists would like to stop this, but India has remained true to its liberal and secular self.

In Pakistan itself, the local English-language daily The News led with the headline, India gives Pakistan a dirty look.

Indian intelligence, under fire for failing to pick up on the threat, is anxious to lay blame elsewhere, the newspaper said.

The countrys influential English-language daily Dawn also urged New Delhi and Islamabad to cooperate in investigations without apportioning blame.

Indias newspapers meanwhile focused on the failures which allowed the militants to strike at the heart of the countrys financial capital without warning.

The Mail Today said the countrys intelligence agencies had no clue of the impending attack despite huge spending on anti-terror measures.

The Times of India questioned why intelligence agencies had failed.

How well do we run them, how well-resourced are they, and is there proper coordination among them to maximise and collate information? it demanded.

What are the intelligence mechanisms that failed to pick up a terrorist plan with as much micro-planning as this one? The Indian Express demanded.

The New York-based Wall Street Journal blamed Indias leaders for making the country an easy target.

Its intelligence units are understaffed and lack resources. Coordination among the countrys 28 state police forces is poor. The countrys anti-terror legal architecture is also inadequate, it said.

A lack of political leadership is to blame, it concluded.

Under the banner headline Massacre in Mumbai, the Sydney Morning Herald also described Mumbai as a soft target.

It said the nature of the attacks and the singling out of US and British nationals suggested a wider agenda than usual militant attacks in India.

Japans Asahi Shimbun described the attacks as nothing but an intolerable act of brutality, while the Yomiuri Shimbun voiced concern that the bloodshed in the Indian financial capital could affect Japans relations with India.

The Nikkei business daily said security concerns could block investment of foreign capital and slow down the Indian economy further.

All major Chinese dailies carried front page reports on the attacks.

The Beijing News in a commentary blamed the Indian government for being slow to react to events. Faced with the growing menace of terrorism, Indias anti-terrorism measures are lagging behind, the commentary said.


----------



## s90

Logic note said:


> are you equating a riot with the bankrupt scenario of your state ?
> someone talked about inferiority complex and 10th standard .



No worry now it has been averted,PK wasnt only country affected by high oil prices,better worry about ur country


----------



## Chanakya.10

Logic note said:


> yes it is pain in the butt for indians and even Americans ..* but it is biggest pain for Pakistan .*.



It is not the biggest pain for pakistan, its their pride, every kid want to be in it.....


But if everything continues, it will for SURE become pain for pakistanis......


----------



## Munir

It is funn how fast the Indians are diverting into 9/11, failed state etc etc... Inferiority complex... Mufassa!


----------



## Zaheerkhan

'Pakistan will have to face serious consequences'


*Pakistan will have to face the consequences if the ISI does not explain properly its stand on terrorism and its position on the fidayeen attack on Mumbai, former joint director, Intelligence Bureau, M K Dhar told *rediff.com.

Dhar, who is said to have received a call from an official of the ISI, confirmed the same.

He, however, refused to disclose details of the conversation stating that it was a talk between two professionals.

Dhar, however, added that the ISI is under tremendous pressure from both the US and the Pakistan military on the issue of terrorism. Moreover, Pakistan itself is unable to control the menace of terrorism in its own country of late.

As of now the heat has been stepped up on the ISI from the United States especially in the wake of the attack on the Nariman House.

He also added that it is in the interest of both India and Pakistan that the ISI comes down and clarifies its position on the Mumbai attack.

*The two countries cannot go to war over a couple of terrorists and that is precisely why it will be best for the ISI to clear the air, Dhar also said.*

Meanwhile, sources said the Scotland Yard police comprising 9 members is on its way to Mumbai to investigate any British angle to the attack. News had been circulating that one of the attackers is a Pakistani based or bred in Britain.

Asked whether they have a British Pakistani in their custody, K P S Raghuvanshi who is acting as the Chief of the Anti Terrorism [Images] following the death of Hemanth Karkare, declined to comment.

*M K Dhar, who is being kept in the loop, about the ongoing developments said there is information on one of the Mumbai attackers being a British Pakistani.*

Link:http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/28mumterror-pakistan-will-have-to-face-serious-consequences.htm


----------



## TruthSeeker

*


Munir said:



It reminds me of LionKing....


Mufassa Mufassa Mufassa...

[url="



 - MUFASA MUFASA MUFASA![/url]

So in India it is:

ISI... ISI... ISI...

It scares them.

Click to expand...

*
And in Pakistan it is: CIA ... CIA ...CIA !

You both have your bogeymen .....


----------



## s90

JustPazz, India, tweets: Appalled at the foolishness of the curious onlookers who are disrupting the NSG operations.

Twitter / JustPazz


----------



## Neo

was said:


> why isi is so pain in the butt for indians?



Its an easy excuse for their failed intelligence and misery each and every time anything bad happens to India.
ISI is an escape goat, nothing more.


----------



## was

we should be ready for a big incident in pakistan in next days by indian retaliation


----------



## Halaku Khan

Asim Aquil said:


> We do not support the LeT.
> 
> We do however support the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen.
> 
> And there is clearly a difference in the way the Hizb works and the way the LeT works.
> 
> Hizb doesn't attack outside Kashmir. Kashmir is fair game. Mumbai is not.



When you give sanctuary to the LeT you become responsible for whatever they do. 

After the 1993 Mumbai bomb blasts, Tiger Memon was living in Karachi with his entire family. Would that have been possible without the complicity of your establishment?

So, it seems, Kashmir is fair game openly, rest of India is also fair game but with deniability.


----------



## s90

An American and his 13-year-old daughter were killed in the Mumbai cafe attack. Former college professor Alan Scherr, 58, was part of a 25-strong delegation from the Virginia-based Synchronicity Foundation, which promotes meditation. Four other members of the group were injured, the Foundation says.


----------



## dr.umer

Zaheerkhan said:


> 'Pakistan will have to face serious consequences'
> 
> 
> *Pakistan will have to face the consequences if the ISI does not explain properly its stand on terrorism and its position on the fidayeen attack on Mumbai, former joint director, Intelligence Bureau, M K Dhar told *rediff.com.
> 
> Dhar, who is said to have received a call from an official of the ISI, confirmed the same.
> 
> He, however, refused to disclose details of the conversation stating that it was a talk between two professionals.
> 
> Dhar, however, added that the ISI is under tremendous pressure from both the US and the Pakistan military on the issue of terrorism. Moreover, Pakistan itself is unable to control the menace of terrorism in its own country of late.
> 
> As of now the heat has been stepped up on the ISI from the United States especially in the wake of the attack on the Nariman House.
> 
> He also added that it is in the interest of both India and Pakistan that the ISI comes down and clarifies its position on the Mumbai attack.
> 
> *The two countries cannot go to war over a couple of terrorists and that is precisely why it will be best for the ISI to clear the air, Dhar also said.*
> 
> Meanwhile, sources said the Scotland Yard police comprising 9 members is on its way to Mumbai to investigate any British angle to the attack. News had been circulating that one of the attackers is a Pakistani based or bred in Britain.
> 
> Asked whether they have a British Pakistani in their custody, K P S Raghuvanshi who is acting as the Chief of the Anti Terrorism [Images] following the death of Hemanth Karkare, declined to comment.
> 
> *M K Dhar, who is being kept in the loop, about the ongoing developments said there is information on one of the Mumbai attackers being a British Pakistani.*
> 
> Link:'Pakistan will have to face serious consequences'



Usual rant by Indian bias media, what's new ?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Neo

Chanakya.10 said:


> *
> I think you need to read the difference between MIS-REPORTING and BIASING.....
> 
> In India even a 10th standard kid knows the difference........
> *





Chanakya.10 said:


> I did not say or mean that.........
> 
> But i asked about* biased* media, and the reply i got was of *misreportings*.... u know it has no connection...............
> 
> There is a diference between a MISTAKE and a MISCHIEF.....



A lot of misreporting makes it bias.


----------



## Imran Khan

josh18 said:


> Thats is why ISI chief is coming here...to scare us...



see who brave our pakistani is whole india cry cry cry that isi is behind this he go there.see you cirket team last month blasts in pakistan and they sceared to go pakistan but our guys still there .even bombay is under attack.


----------



## Halaku Khan

was said:


> we should be ready for a big accident in pakistan in next days by indian retaliation



Dude don't blame your next accident on India. 

There were guys blaming India after the Marriot but it turned out that a guy from FATA did it.


----------



## Goodperson

I don't see any reason to be angry at terrorist home country, This does not mean the home country supports the terrorist. Neighbor countries should fight terrorism and share information to make subcontinent safe.

btw AM you deleted my post which was infact reply to your post of unsafe nuclear installation and Pakistan nukes better than India.


----------



## Chanakya.10

was said:


> we should be ready for a big incident in pakistan in next days by indian retaliation


*
Sorry!!!!!

Being an INDIAN means being different.......and that difference has to stay like it has stayed for 61 years.......*


----------



## was

TruthSeeker said:


> And in Pakistan it is: CIA ... CIA ...CIA !
> 
> You both have your bogeymen .....



is nothing in confont of india,s intensity of finger pointing


----------



## Munir

Zaheerkhan said:


> 'Pakistan will have to face serious consequences'
> 
> 
> *Pakistan will have to face the consequences if the ISI does not explain properly its stand on terrorism and its position on the fidayeen attack on Mumbai, former joint director, Intelligence Bureau, M K Dhar told *rediff.com.
> 
> Dhar, who is said to have received a call from an official of the ISI, confirmed the same.
> 
> He, however, refused to disclose details of the conversation stating that it was a talk between two professionals.
> 
> Dhar, however, added that the ISI is under tremendous pressure from both the US and the Pakistan military on the issue of terrorism. Moreover, Pakistan itself is unable to control the menace of terrorism in its own country of late.
> 
> As of now the heat has been stepped up on the ISI from the United States especially in the wake of the attack on the Nariman House.
> 
> He also added that it is in the interest of both India and Pakistan that the ISI comes down and clarifies its position on the Mumbai attack.
> 
> *The two countries cannot go to war over a couple of terrorists and that is precisely why it will be best for the ISI to clear the air, Dhar also said.*
> 
> Meanwhile, sources said the Scotland Yard police comprising 9 members is on its way to Mumbai to investigate any British angle to the attack. News had been circulating that one of the attackers is a Pakistani based or bred in Britain.
> 
> Asked whether they have a British Pakistani in their custody, K P S Raghuvanshi who is acting as the Chief of the Anti Terrorism [Images] following the death of Hemanth Karkare, declined to comment.
> 
> *M K Dhar, who is being kept in the loop, about the ongoing developments said there is information on one of the Mumbai attackers being a British Pakistani.*
> 
> Link:'Pakistan will have to face serious consequences'



One was brittish Pakistani? So go attack UK... I take every Indian person with a spoon of salt.

UK had more then Brittish Pakistani doing wrong things... Atleast they were not that stupid how o handle it... I have to make a fast correction. They shot an innoncent civilian in the subway and lied about it...

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## Zaheerkhan

was said:


> we should be ready for a big accident in pakistan in next days by indian retaliation



There is tremendoun public outrage over this incident.The general public, the leaders (including the leaders in the opposition), the industrilists, every body is calling for military attack over Pakistan.


----------



## s90

> former joint director, Intelligence Bureau, M K Dhar told



Why dont serving intel cheif tells the media that we were napping and it was intel failure,so sorry


----------



## josh18

imran khan said:


> see who brave our pakistani is whole india cry cry cry that isi is behind this he go there.see you cirket team last month blasts in pakistan and they sceared to go pakistan but our guys still there .even bombay is under attack.



I appreciate your bravery Sir...


----------



## Flintlock

Actually these days the bogeyman in Pakistan seems to be the scary US Drone attack. 

I know its a low-blow to mention it, but this thread is steadily deteriorating into a flamewar.


----------



## Munir

Zaheerkhan said:


> There is tremendoun public outrage over this incident.The general public, the leaders (including the leaders in the opposition), the industrilists, every body is calling for military attack over Pakistan.



We just nuke you back to the stone age... Go ahead...


----------



## s90

Zaheerkhan said:


> There is tremendoun public outrage over this incident.The general public, the leaders (including the leaders in the opposition), the industrilists, every body is calling for military attack over Pakistan.



Very stupid they are then

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## Blossom

Munir said:


> It reminds me of LionKing....
> 
> 
> Mufassa Mufassa Mufassa...
> 
> [url="
> 
> 
> 
> - MUFASA MUFASA MUFASA![/url]
> 
> So in India it is:
> 
> ISI... ISI... ISI...
> 
> It scares them.


----------



## Goodperson

s90 said:


> Why dont serving intel cheif tells the media that we were napping and it was intel failure,so sorry



That was obvious.


----------



## s90

*From BBC* : Ali e-mails from England: Why is the Indian government blaming Pakistan for this attack? Pakistan is willing to help with this matter and get to the bottom of it.

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## josh18

Munir said:


> We just nuke you back to the stone age... Go ahead...



And your Golden Age starts the same moment....


----------



## Imran Khan

Zaheerkhan said:


> There is tremendoun public outrage over this incident.The general public, the leaders (including the leaders in the opposition), the industrilists, every body is calling for military attack over Pakistan.



most welcome today 100 indian diy and if you take this step imagene who many and remeber india is already doning what ever she can do against pakstan tarerrst never diy with our nukes and missles keys the nukes keys with us until today


----------



## was

Zaheerkhan said:


> There is tremendoun public outrage over this incident.The general public, the leaders (including the leaders in the opposition), the industrilists, every body is calling for military attack over Pakistan.


just try it
oh i,m scared india is going to attack us


----------



## Awesome

Star News: Humare Jawan bari mushkil se, akhri aatankwadi ki taraf barh rahay hain.


----------



## was

after watching indian news channels i,m really starting to hate indians


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## hasang20

josh18 said:


> And your Golden Age starts the same moment....



not really we have good defence and China just need a moment to nuke India lol
 too bad all the cricket teams in India going back


EDIT - by looking @ your commandos with no Kevlar it makes me really think that how are these commandos they are slim like gandi go ask for help Isreal and US blamming Pakistan is not an option because Pakistan Army is ready for the fight it was put on a high Alert since 2001 because of US coming to Afganistan


----------



## x_man

Zaheerkhan said:


> .......Nowonder your foreign minister is already in India, and your army and ISI chief are running to Delhi to explain things. Ther sure have a lot of things to explain.



Guys like you never seize to amaze me&#8230;When I think that I have seen the worst of gibberish, you pick another one out of your kitty and throw it in the forum...

If you have slightest of know how of the things, you might know that neither operationally, nor administrationally or organisationally the ISI chief comes under the Indian PM&#8230;.He could have easily turned down the request without being answerable to Mr Manmohan&#8230;.

However, In an very unprecedented move, a good will gesture has been made here by the Pak Army Chief on the request of your PM in these difficult times. Now instead of appreciating this gesture, you have come up with an utterly BS theory of your own that speaks of your kindergarten mentality&#8230;.

The least I expected from you guys were some words of praise on this extraordinary gesture by Pak Govt.&#8230;

Someone rightly said,&#8217; sirf mulk (country) hee bara nahin hona chahiyah , dil bhi baray honay chahiyah&#8230;.&#8217;

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## Awesome

josh18 said:


> Spreading terror anywhere is not a fair game be it Mumbai, Kashmir or Karachi....Those who use guns against civilians cannot be called freedom fighters or Jehadis..


Kashmir is disputed territory. We fight for the freedom of Kashmir and to save them from Indian terrorism.


----------



## josh18

hasang20 said:


> not really we have good defence and China just need a moment to nuke India lol
> too bad all the cricket teams in India going back



Oh My god...how can I forget chinese are sitting with their finger on the red button..

Grow up kid and get a life..this is serious stuff...


----------



## Imran Khan

was said:


> after watching indian news channels i,m really starting to hate indians



you do this today i stop wacth indian films and tv when first time i see film border  this film change my life and its me until today from 1999 i never see any indian tv 5 mints


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## Awesome

Live feed of Star News: Star News Live Video [Watch Online] | News, Video news, News Jang, News Current Affairs, News Breaking, World News, Investing, financial information, Business News, Politics, Technology, Environment, Health, Education, Space, Science, Daily Jang, www

Warning: Too much Tamasha!


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## was

now they have the world attention they are defaming pakistan,s image.. shits


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## josh18

Asim Aquil said:


> Kashmir is disputed territory. We fight for the freedom of Kashmir and to save them from Indian terrorism.



I fully understand your view! but what about rest of India...I hope you do not want freedom of Maharastra.


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## Flintlock

*Watch NDTV - better coverage*

Videos on News, Movies, Music, Sports and Current Affairs - NDTV.com


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## Awesome

was said:


> after watching indian news channels i,m really starting to hate indians


I feel sorry for the Indians hence I'm fighting the urge to do so, even though they are calling us heinous things.


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## Awesome

josh18 said:


> I fully understand your view! but what about rest of India...I hope you do not want freedom of Maharastra.


Rest of India is offlimits.


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## dr.umer

*Indian spy agencies failed due to their overwhelming focus on Pak terror groups​*
*Islamabad, Nov 28 (ANI): Indian intelligence agencies completely failed in preventing the Mumbai terror strikes because of their overwhelming focus on Pakistan-based militant groups all these years. And, the focus has been so sharp that the Indian spy agencies have forgotten to control the spread of homegrown terrorism, said an article in Pakistan daily The News.* 

It said that more than one-third of Indian territory was affected by home-grown terrorism.

All of India's intelligence agencies have failed, and the most critical element in their collective failure is their overwhelming focus on Pakistan-based militant groups. So intense has been this focus that India's homegrown militant entities have spread like wildfire all through India's 2,973,190 sq km of land mass. According to South Asia Terrorism Portal, at least 231 of the India's 608 districts are currently afflicted, at differing intensities, by various insurgent and terrorist movements, the paper said.

It added: Over the past five decades, India has been up against three distinct types of militancy: Left-wing extremist, separatist and religious. Left-wing extremist groups that have engaged in terrorist activity include People's Guerrilla Army, People's War Group, Moist Communist Centre, Communist Party of India-Maoist and Communist Party of India Janashakti. In Assam, there are at least 35 known separatist groups. In Manipur, there's the People's Liberation Army. In Meghalava, there's the People's Liberation Front of Meghalava. Nagaland has at least three known insurgent entities; Punjab has 12, Tripura has 30 and Mizoram has 2. Then there's Arunachal Dragon Force in Arunachal Pradesh.

Suggesting that Pakistan was also a terror-victim like India and rest of the world, the report said: In 2006, a total of 2,765 Indians died in terrorism-related violence (that same year, 1,471 Pakistanis died in terrorism-related violence). Of the 2,765 Indians, who lost their lives, 41 per cent were killed in Jammu and Kashmir, 27 per cent of all victims died because of Left-wing extremism, 23 per cent because of insurgencies and 10 per cent from militant groups based on religion.

Putting a question mark as to who was behind Mumbai attacks, the report said: Is it India's left-wing extremists, separatists or India's homegrown Jihadi militants? Many a finger are pointing at India's home-grown Jihadi militants but we may never find out for sure. The Mumbai attacks, however, is a wake-up call for the global intelligence community for them to rise up to the challenge and focus their collective energies in the right direction. (ANI)

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## Neo

josh18 said:


> I fully understand your view! but what about rest of India...I hope you do not want freedom of Maharastra.



India as a co-founder of BLA still supports her and your consulates in Afghanstan serve as intelligence centers. 
Its not a secret that India is supporting seperatists in Balochistan. 
There's your answer.

Btw, how's the weather in Bengalore?

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## was

what a irresponsabile media have indians


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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> *Watch NDTV - better coverage*
> 
> Videos on News, Movies, Music, Sports and Current Affairs - NDTV.com


I was flipping between the both, initially. Hopefully it would be over by EOD.

They are saying there is still a few of them left in the Taj. Indian media has only scared Indians with their coverage.


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## Chanakya.10

Neo said:


> India as a co-founder of BLA still supports her and your consulates in Afghanstan serve as intelligence centers.
> Its not a secret that India is supporting seperatists in Balochistan.
> There's your answer.





And that secret in whole world is only revealed BY UNBIASED AND ULTRA PROFFESIONAL MATURe AND EXPERIENCED STABLE MINDED JOURNALISTS OF Pakistan..........


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## Awesome

Hmmm meeting at the PM house.


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## josh18

hasang20 said:


> now is the time we should divide India is 3 parts hindus,chiristian and Muslims



Watch out son, Al Qaeda is on a hiring spree. You are perfect for them with all inflamatory things you post here.

*Do we have something as moderators here?*


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## Awesome

Chanakya.10 said:


> And that secret in whole world is only revealed BY UNBIASED AND ULTRA PROFFESIONAL MATURe AND EXPERIENCED STABLE MINDED JOURNALISTS OF Pakistan..........


And hundreds dead in Pakistan? And 32 consulates? And that TTP keeps moving in and out of Afghanistan freely!


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## Neo

Chanakya.10 said:


> And that secret in whole world is only revealed BY UNBIASED AND ULTRA PROFFESIONAL MATURe AND EXPERIENCED STABLE MINDED JOURNALISTS OF Pakistan..........



Are you denying that BLA was co founded by RAW??


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## Chanakya.10

Neo said:


> Are you denying that BLA was co founded by RAW??



Are u denying that balochis are suppressed of their basic rights and development in pakistan?????


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## Awesome

'Pakistan will have to face serious consequences'

Indian intelligence openly threatening terrorism against Pakistan.

That is what we are up against. Bunch of terrorists!

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## was

Neo said:


> India as a co-founder of BLA still supports her and your consulates in Afghanstan serve as intelligence centers.
> Its not a secret that India is supporting seperatists in Balochistan.
> There's your answer.
> 
> Btw, how's the weather in Bengalore?



Foreign militants entering Balochistan via Pak-Afghan border

* Major chunk of Indian aid to Afghanistan being used to support anti-Pakistan quarters

By Tahir Niaz

ISLAMABAD: *Pakistani intelligence agencies have gathered credible information on the influx of foreign militants and sophisticated weapons into Pashtun areas of Balochistan  with some also headed to Karachi  via the Pak-Afghan border, sources told Daily Times on Thursday.

The sources claimed that the weapons were being supplied to Balochistans Chaman, Pishin and Qila Abdullah districts for the Baloch Liberation Army (BLA), by anti-Balochistan and anti-Pakistan quarters.

They said Pakistani agencies had seized at least 726 missiles in addition to other weapons over the last few days. The Pakistani authorities have also secretly conveyed to organisations supporting anti-Pakistan quarters to cease their activities or face action. The sources said the authorities wanted to settle the matter without bringing it into the limelight.

Indian aid to Afghanistan: With 334 land routes leading into Pakistan from Afghanistan along the 2,560-kilometre border, the sources believe that a major portion of the $125 million recently given to Afghanistan by India was being used to support anti-Pakistan quarters in parts of Balochistan. The sources believe the hub of Pakistans business, Karachi, is also among the targets.

They said the federal government had made plans to check the insurgency in Balochistan, and orders on the situation had already been given to the provincial government and intelligence and law-enforcement agencies.

Meanwhile, intelligence agencies have also collected credible evidence against hardcore Baloch leaders, and they would soon be produced in courts of law.*

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## Chanakya.10

GIve reports by international media...........

Not by pakistani amateurs.......


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## Awesome

Chanakya.10 said:


> Are u denying that balochis are suppressed of their basic rights and development in pakistan?????


They are suppressed by other Balochis and we're systematically killing all of their captors and feudal lords who support that kind of thing. The Baloch community overwhelmingly supports Pakistan.


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## josh18

Neo said:


> India as a co-founder of BLA still supports her and your consulates in Afghanstan serve as intelligence centers.
> Its not a secret that India is supporting seperatists in Balochistan.
> There's your answer.
> 
> Btw, how's the weather in Bengalore?



Its raining here! BTW in live in Northridge, CA and would be moving to NL in a couple of days so dont know how's the weather there.

Consulates of pakistan also serve as intelligence centers at different places. BLA? are you talking about Bangladesh..its a old story pal...


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## Neo

Chanakya.10 said:


> Are u denying that balochis are suppressed of their basic rights and development in pakistan?????



Basic rights and all means are development were systematically blocked or rejected by feudal lords inorder to continue slavery and we've put an end to this all. Balochistan now gets lionsshare in development funds, for third consequetive year.

Please stick to the topic.


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## dr.umer

Chanakya.10 said:


> Are u denying that balochis are suppressed of their basic rights and development in pakistan?????



Are you accepting that RAW recruits and train people who some how feel suppressed ?


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## Chanakya.10

> Originally Posted by Neo
> India as a co-founder of BLA still supports her and your consulates in Afghanstan serve as intelligence centers.
> Its not a secret that India is supporting seperatists in Balochistan.
> There's your answer.



Blah Blah!!

That secret is only covered by Super media of pakistan........

Totally unbiased towards India......

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## Flintlock

*Patil goof-up, TV cameras &#8216;compromise&#8217; rescue*

Patil goof-up, TV cameras &#8216;compromise&#8217; rescue

A goof-up late Wednesday night by Home Minister Shivraj Patil and the airing of live footage by television channels on Thursday compromised rescue operations at the Trident and Taj hotels in Mumbai by* giving terrorists prior information,* security forces have said.

*The Army and the National Security Guards (NSG), which started search and rescue operations early on Thursday, are fuming over a statement by the Home Minister on Wednesday night that revealed that 200 commandoes are leaving for Mumbai from the capital.*

The live coverage of the operation by television channels was curtailed after objections by the armed forces that it was hampering operations. The News Broadcasters Association (NBA) issued an advisory for &#8216;self-regulation&#8217; and &#8216;self-restraint&#8217; in coverage to enable smooth functioning of security agencies and safety of those caught in the Terror attacks.

The Home Minister, who was talking to television channels, drew flak after he said that the team of NSG commandoes would leave for operations in Mumbai and even revealed the exact time of departure from Delhi, compromising, security forces say, the surprise element in the planned assault.
______________________________________

We know that the Home Minister is an incompetent idiot - but this is bloody criminal.


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## Vinod2070

Neo said:


> You guys give ISI more credit than any other nation anyway. We know our intelligence has failed domestically at sevral occasions but never in history they left an ISI badge behind...man its even too amaturistic for a bad Bollywood scenario.



Yes, it is no Super organization that so many people on this forum claim. They can be as much efficient or competent as the society they come from.


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## Neo

josh18 said:


> Its raining here! BTW in live in Northridge, CA and would be moving to NL in a couple of days so dont know how's the weather there.


Rain and snow for last couple of days...quite depressing. 

Consulates of pakistan also serve as intelligence centers at different places. BLA? are you talking about Bangladesh..its a old story pal...[/QUOTE]
You're new to cyber arena I guess 
BLA - Balochistan Liberation Army


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## Chanakya.10

dr.umer said:


> Are you accepting that RAW recruits and train people who some how feel suppressed ?



RAW only go to those countries who want to disrupt our peace like the ongoing Mumbai encounter.........

If u believe u r one of them, who have elemnts who want to disturb peacein India, then RAW is surely in ur country, otherwise not........


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## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> Exactly my point. IF this was retaliation for what India did at the Marriot, then we could've easily just blown away the Taj, the Oberoi, the Trident and called it a day.
> 
> Instead kids were fighting with AKs and grenades.



You give yourself far too much credit!

the reality is more than a wee bit different.


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## Imran Khan

Pakistan to send ISI chief to India


ISLAMABAD ( 2008-11-28 16:59:46 ) rime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani on Friday extended Pakistan's support to India in jointly combating extremism and terrorism and *offered to send its intelligence chief to help with Mumbai investigation*.





Prime Minister Gilani telephoned his Indian counterpart Dr. Manmohan Singh and strongly condemned the acts of terrorism in Mumbai.

The prime minister expressed sympathy on behalf of the people and government of Pakistan with Indian Prime Minister, Congress leader Sonia Gandhi, people of India and the families of those who lost their near and dear ones in "the unfortunate incidents of barbarism."

Gilani termed the incident "inhuman and condemnable from all aspects."

He said Pakistan too was a victim of terrorism and appreciated the fact that Indian Prime Minister was the first one to telephone him after the Marriott hotel blast.

"Singh told the Prime Minister that preliminary reports point towards Karachi and stressed the need for increased intelligence sharing and cooperation in order to evolve a joint strategy against terrorism and extremism," a press release from the PM House said.

*Singh requested the Prime Minster to send DG ISI to India for exchange of information in this regard. *

*The prime minister accepted the request and said that after working out modalities by both the governments, the ISI chief will visit India *at the earliest, the press release said. 

The prime minister also extended his government's full support for jointly combating extremism and terrorism and also offered help in investigating the incident.


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## x_man

Chanakya.10 said:


> Totally unbiased towards India......



Not Unbiased Sir !!! 

Its called a little taste of your own medicine...

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## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> If we wanted to attack then we wouldn't go around helping the Indians.
> 
> We wouldn't kill a host of nationalities when clues can easily be traced to Pakistan. If the idea was to take everyone on then we would say so.
> 
> Nothing makes sense.
> 
> Oh and no one's going to come to your rescue. *You amassed 1 million troops against us before. Then you had concede defeat and go back!*



AFAIK, the troops pulled back after Musharraf promised to not allow any territory under Pakistani control for use in terror against India for the first time.


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## josh18

Neo said:


> Rain and snow for last couple of days...quite depressing.
> 
> Consulates of pakistan also serve as intelligence centers at different places. BLA? are you talking about Bangladesh..its a old story pal...


You're new to cyber arena I guess 
BLA - Balochistan Liberation Army [/QUOTE]

Sorry Misunderstood...never heard of that. And yes I am new to this type of forums...was going through articals about Mumbai Blasts and terrorism and landed here...felt like replying to some of the posts so registered...


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## Vinod2070

Neo said:


> Vinod,
> 
> We have acknowledged AQ to be a bigger threat to national sucurity than India, its time you guys did the same and broke with age old tradition to blame Pakistan or ISI for every single crime commited on your soil. Every day you ignore AQ is another precious day lost and you become more vulnerable and exposed to AQ.
> 
> Pakistan today is caught up in the middle of WoT, we're facing threats from inside aswell as outside only because we ignored the interior element for so long and paid a heavy price for our ignorance...as a matter of fact we're still paying it. Learn from our mistakes and join hands to fight the phenom together.



I think the arrest of even the serving military man proves that India is looking inwards when required.


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## Neo

Chanakya.10 said:


> Dont let him go once he land his feet.........



Watch your mouth!


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## Flintlock

*-The Government is also saying that the ISI is involved in the terror attack. They have hard evidence regarding this.

Very interesting situation developing! *


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## TruthSeeker

As a Yankee, without a dog in this fight, I find the interplay between the Indian and Pakistani forum members amazing. Do you each really believe half the propaganda about the other that you spout here? Or is this just playful banter? Being so antagonistic to a neighbor, or even another country's people, is so foreign to me that I cannot imagine what you must teach your children. Not since WWII, when Americans truly hated the Japanese and Germans, have we had this level of invective against another country and its people. Even at the height of the Cold War with the Soviets, individual Americans did not hate the Russians or Chinese. We didn't even hate the Vietnamese! If you guys are representative of your populations true feelings, then South Asian tranquility is many generations off. That's too bad.


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## Awesome

lol NDTV just posted an inflamatory SMS encouraging Terrorism from Raj Thackeray to be sent to kill terrorists (namely Muslims).


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## x_man

Chanakya.10 said:


> Dont let him go once he land his feet.........



I think you need a break...Because you are seriously loosing whats called a sensible discussion...


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## Awesome

NDTV encouraging terrorism against Muslims!!!!!!!!


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## Imran Khan

Chanakya.10 said:


> Dont let him go once he land his feet.........



your PM reqesting and reqesting for help boss and transfer of inteligence so he is the best inteligent of pakistan must be his feets on indian land


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## Chanakya.10

Flintlock said:


> *-The Government is also saying that the ISI is involved in the terror attack. They have hard evidence regarding this.
> 
> Very interesting situation developing! *



Yes the situation is indeed interestingly developing.... Lot of things will change in the time that's coming..............

Indian attitude towards these cowardly attacks will also change as can be seen by the anger among the public..........

*
All i want is that evidence is hard enough.........*


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## josh18

TruthSeeker said:


> As a Yankee, without a dog in this fight, I find the interplay between the Indian and Pakistani forum members amazing. Do you each really believe half the propaganda about the other that you spout here? Or is this just playful banter? Being so antagonistic to a neighbor, or even another country's people, is so foreign to me that I cannot imagine what you must teach your children. Not since WWII, when Americans truly hated the Japanese and Germans, have we had this level of invective against another country and its people. Even at the height of the Cold War with the Soviets, individual Americans did not hate the Russians or Chinese. We didn't even hate the Vietnamese! If you guys are representative of your populations true feelings, then South Asian tranquility is many generations off. That's too bad.



Agree with you... but did you said Russians?? every other hollywood action movie of 80's had a Russian bad guy..


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## Awesome

Hemant Kakre's widow blasted Narendra Modi who went for condolences. I think she suspects the same. This drama was to kill Kakre.

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## fatman17

*Now instead of appreciating this gesture, you have come up with an utterly BS theory of your own that speaks of your kindergarten mentality.*

its called a rigid mindset!

i get the feeling that the indians think we are doing this from a position of "weakness". on the contrary, this requires india and pakistan to really show that we want to exist as peaceful neighbours on even terms.


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## Neo

Asim Aquil said:


> NDTV encouraging terrorism against Muslims!!!!!!!!



Jai "Secular" Hind!!!


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## Awesome

Vinod2070 said:


> AFAIK, the troops pulled back after Musharraf promised to not allow any territory under Pakistani control for use in terror against India for the first time.


You remember wrong. Musharraf banned the organizations right after the attack.

But the 1 million Indian troops gave up after 10 months and the standoff was causing them to go suicidal and homicidal.

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## josh18

Neo said:


> Jai "Secular" Hind!!!



Cannot be true...NDTV is a responsible news channel...some one has misinterpreted... and also I hate this word 'Secular' this word has been so much used by politicians that it has lost its meaning.


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## was

Flintlock said:


> *-The Government is also saying that the ISI is involved in the terror attack. They have hard evidence regarding this.
> 
> Very interesting situation developing! *


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## dr.umer

*Terrorists Paralyze India's Business Capital ​*
28 Nov 2008

Wall Street Journal

.................

*While not mentioning Pakistan by name, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh pledged to "take up strongly with our neighbors that the use of their territory for launching attacks on us will not be tolerated."

Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani have both condemned the bloodshed in Mumbai.

The scale and sophistication of the Mumbai attacks, as well as the choice of targets, however, appeared to point to a more insidious threat that the Indian government has been reluctant to acknowledge so far -- the potential involvement of extremists within the country's own Muslim community, which, at 150 million, is the world's third-largest after Indonesia and Pakistan. It is also one of India's most economically and politically disadvantaged minorities.

In a statement that couldn't be independently authenticated, a previously unknown group, the Deccan Mujahideen, claimed responsibility for the Mumbai operation, describing itself as hailing from the south Indian city of Hyderabad. Hyderabad was the world's largest Muslim-ruled monarchy until it was invaded and annexed by India in 1948.

Indian security officials cast doubt on this statement, saying that the attacks bore the hallmarks of Al Qaeda and Pakistani militant groups. They also claimed to have found a boat on which ammunition for the attacks was allegedly smuggled from Pakistan. That couldn't be confirmed.

While independent security experts said it's likely that the attackers received some support from like-minded radicals in Pakistan, they also stressed that such a massive operation would have been nearly impossible without a deep-rooted local network inside India itself.

"It would be extremely difficult for foreigners to come in and operate in this manner," said Rohan Gunaratna, head of the International Center for Political Violence and Terrorism Research in Singapore. "They certainly had intimate knowledge of the city. The pre-eminent threat to India is home-grown."

Christine Fair, a South Asia specialist at the Rand Corp. think tank, added that the modus operandi of the Mumbai militants -- coordinated small-arms assaults and hostage-takings, rather that suicide bombings -- didn't match the signature of the best known Pakistani militant groups or Al Qaeda.

"I think it's very much a home-grown attack," she said. "There are very deep and unresolved social justice issues for Indian Muslims. They have a lot of motivation."

India's Muslims, some of them still nostalgic for a medieval golden age when most of the subcontinent was under Muslim dominion, are among the country's poorest communities, partly because much of the Muslim professional class emigrated to Pakistan at partition in 1947.

In addition to being disproportionately targeted in outbreaks of religious violence, they are severely underrepresented in the country's government bureaucracy, universities and security services. On literacy scores, young Indian Muslims now lag behind even the country's historically most disadvantaged group, the Dalits, or Hinduism's "untouchables."

While only a small minority of Indian Muslims supports violence, the community is often represented by hardline clerics in India's interest-group brand of politics, where caste and religion-based "vote banks" frequently trump political platforms and ideologies. The global campaign against Salman Rushdie's "Satanic Verses" was launched by an Indian Muslim politician in 1988. Last year, Bangladeshi feminist writer Taslima Nasrin was expelled from Calcutta and eventually had to leave India because of violent protests organized against her by Indian Muslim community leaders who described her writings as disrespectful of Islam.

The biggest previous terror attack in Mumbai, a series of bombings in 1993, was organized by mostly Muslim organized-crime syndicates to avenge deadly anti-Muslim pogroms in the city. Hundreds of Muslims were killed in another wave of communal rioting in the Indian state of Gujarat in 2002.

In following years, bombings and shootings attributed to Islamic militants became increasingly frequent in India, hitting the capital of New Delhi, information-technology hubs Bangalore and Hyderabad, and Mumbai itself.*

Report Continues....


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## TruthSeeker

*


josh18 said:



Agree with you... but did you said Russians?? every other hollywood action movie of 80's had a Russian bad guy..

Click to expand...

*
I'm sure you realize that "Hollywood" deals in fantasy and exaggeration. The villains of Hollywood are extreme characterizations of what ordinary Americans may think. Story lines always need villains from somewhere. In "politically correct (PC)" America it is increasingly difficult to find acceptable villains that do not have some "anti-defamation". Today jihadis fill that role, thanks to Osama bin laden providing Hollywood with a PC prototype!


----------



## Awesome

TruthSeeker said:


> As a Yankee, without a dog in this fight, I find the interplay between the Indian and Pakistani forum members amazing. Do you each really believe half the propaganda about the other that you spout here? Or is this just playful banter? Being so antagonistic to a neighbor, or even another country's people, is so foreign to me that I cannot imagine what you must teach your children. Not since WWII, when Americans truly hated the Japanese and Germans, have we had this level of invective against another country and its people. Even at the height of the Cold War with the Soviets, individual Americans did not hate the Russians or Chinese. We didn't even hate the Vietnamese! If you guys are representative of your populations true feelings, then South Asian tranquility is many generations off. That's too bad.


You have to understand that the media of each country openly has promoted this kind of behavior since our inception. That is what is happening here I believe. Indians need an enemy and they are brain washed to believe we are it since birth.

Not that it is any different for Pakistanis.

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## fatman17

* the potential involvement of extremists within the country's own Muslim community, which, at 150 million, is the world's third-largest after Indonesia and Pakistan. It is also one of India's most economically and politically disadvantaged minorities.*

why do such statements keep coming up in all the articles posted on this thread!

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## josh18

TruthSeeker said:


> I'm sure you realize that "Hollywood" deals in fantasy and exaggeration. The villains of Hollywood are extreme characterizations of what ordinary Americans may think. Story lines always need villains from somewhere. In "politically correct (PC)" America it is increasingly difficult to find acceptable villains that do not have some "anti-defamation". Today jihadis fill that role, thanks to Osama bin laden providing Hollywood with a PC prototype!



So you are accepting that Americans disliked russians due to cold war and now dislike muslims becuse of war on terror....I hate double standards of USA.


----------



## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> You remember wrong. Musharraf banned the organizations right after the attack.
> 
> But the 1 million Indian troops gave up after 10 months and the standoff was causing them to go suicidal and homicidal.



While the operation was no big success, here are the facts:



> Following India's move, Pakistan responded by moving large numbers of its troops from the border with Afghanistan, where they had been trying to contain Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters, to the Indian border. In late December, both countries moved ballistic missiles closer to each other's border, and mortar and artillery fire was reported in Kashmir.[7] By January 2002, India had mobilized around 500,000 troops and three armored divisions on the Pakistani border concentrated along the Line of Control in Kashmir. Pakistan responded similarly, deploying around 120,000 troops to that region.[8] This was the largest buildup on the subcontinent since the 1971 war.
> 
> *On January 12, 2002, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf gave a speech intended to reduce tensions with India. He declared the Pakistan would combat extremism on its own soil*, but said that Pakistan had a right to Kashmir.[9] Indian leaders reacted with skepticism. Minister of State for External Affairs Omar Abdullah said that the speech was nothing new, and others said that it would 'not make any change in the Indian stand'.[10] Still, tensions eased somewhat. The Indian President told his generals that there would be no attack "for now."



2001?2002 India?Pakistan standoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The forces came back after Musharraf's promise that was not kept like others.


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## Imran Khan

you belive vikipedia that is sorce of mushrraf promise so sad now i am going to write on wiki that india behaind marriot bombing you belive that


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## Vinod2070

^^ I saw that speech live and I am sure you did too.

Why are you trying to obfuscate the fact?


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## Neo

TruthSeeker said:


> As a Yankee, without a dog in this fight, I find the interplay between the Indian and Pakistani forum members amazing. Do you each really believe half the propaganda about the other that you spout here? Or is this just playful banter? Being so antagonistic to a neighbor, or even another country's people, is so foreign to me that I cannot imagine what you must teach your children. Not since WWII, when Americans truly hated the Japanese and Germans, have we had this level of invective against another country and its people. Even at the height of the Cold War with the Soviets, individual Americans did not hate the Russians or Chinese. We didn't even hate the Vietnamese! If you guys are representative of your populations true feelings, then South Asian tranquility is many generations off. That's too bad.



Sir,

We don't hate eachother. As a matter of fact we have a lot in comon, we love eachother food, music, movies and drama's, fashion and even share a few languages with eachother. 

But the rivallery is there, governments on both sides often use false propaganda for vote banking and don't mis an opportunity to degrade eachother at international level...
Key issue is Kashmir, as long as the dispute is running I'm affraid we'll never be good friends or even good neighbors...

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## smeaglegolum

imran khan said:


> you belive vikipedia that is sorce of mushrraf promise so sad now i am going to write on wiki that india behaind marriot bombing you belive that



That will be deleted if you don't back up with proof.


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## Awesome

Vinod2070 said:


> While the operation was no big success, here are the facts:
> 
> 
> 
> 2001?2002 India?Pakistan standoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The forces came back after Musharraf's promise that was not kept like others.


The forces came back in October not on January 12! lol

The attack happened on Dec 16th. By those estimates Musharraf denounced the groups right after the attack.


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## TruthSeeker

*


josh18 said:



So you are accepting that Americans disliked russians due to cold war and now dislike muslims becuse of war on terror....I hate double standards of USA.

Click to expand...

*
How do you leap from "jihadis" to "muslims"? Americans are human, of course! If we are "at war" we are going to "dislike" our enemy. That is normal human emotion. "Dislike" may even rise to "hate" if the enemy is percieved to be inhuman. We do not dislike muslims but we do hate jihadis.


----------



## Neo

josh18 said:


> Cannot be true...NDTV is a responsible news channel...some one has misinterpreted... and also I hate this word 'Secular' this word has been so much used by politicians that it has lost its meaning.



Secularism to India is as sacred as the holy cow...thats one thing I've been told many times in my four years of active duty in several international fora.


----------



## Awesome

Vinod2070 said:


> ^^ I saw that speech live and I am sure you did too.
> 
> Why are you trying to obfuscate the fact?


January 12. to October.

What the Indians took that much time to understand what Musharraf said?


----------



## Imran Khan

smeaglegolum said:


> That will be deleted if you don't back up with proof.



dude wiki of BS check every thing is there even some fake images and viedeos


----------



## josh18

TruthSeeker said:


> How do you leap from "jihadis" to "muslims"? Americans are human, of course! If we are "at war" we are going to "dislike" our enemy. That is normal human emotion. "Dislike" may even rise to "hate" if the enemy is percieved to be inhuman. We do not dislike muslims but we do hate jihadis.



OK.. I got it. And one has to accept "America is always right" in what ever it does so I agree with whatever you say....


----------



## josh18

Neo said:


> Secularism to India is as sacred as the holy cow...thats one thing I've been told many times in my four years of active duty in several international fora.



and that is why I hate this word...


----------



## Imran Khan

Asim Aquil said:


> January 12. to October.
> 
> What the Indians took that much time to understand what Musharraf said?



may be this time they will go for approve the mushi promice from uncle sam


----------



## TruthSeeker

josh18 said:


> OK.. I got it. And one has to accept "America is always right" in what ever it does so I agree with whatever you say....



I am admitting to "hating" jihadis. Maybe you love them or merely "dislike" them? Anyway, after reading hundreds of posts on this forum, I am certainly used to the fact that most here do not feel kindly towards the USA and reflexively will challenge anything an American posts. That's OK. We can take it. Blast away!!


----------



## Imran Khan

*Situation Update 

At Taj: 1 terrorist alive, firing at commandos 
At Nariman: 1 floor yet to capture, says NSG 
At Nariman: No one found alive 
At Nariman: Three huge explosions 
Large quantity of RDX found at Taj: DGP 
125 dead, 327 injured; ops over at Oberoi *


----------



## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> January 12. to October.
> 
> What the Indians took that much time to understand what Musharraf said?



Obviously he made that speech because of the operation. In Agra the same general was openly dismissing the victims of terror as "collateral damage"

But after 9/11 it was like some "sagewala" died. He was so "sad" when he appeared on TV to express his "sorrow".

We took the time to ensure he delivers on his promise, given his track record and knowing how he was a slippery customer.


----------



## Chanakya.10

According to CNN-IBN ISI chief have been requested to come to India......To hand him the evidence of the involvement of ISI......


----------



## haviZsultan

smeaglegolum said:


> Yes it is true. Indeed there are some traitors in Hyderabad, especially in the Old city.



Yup... even my background is f4m there... so ya we're proud traitors! lol!

Thing is in hyderabad remnants of the nizam remain and not all people managed to shift sahi sey. Others are just sick of the same indian bias and discrimination etc etc that they have to suffer every single day...

This guy is now a minister in Pakistan likin hes f4m hyd'z:
YouTube - nuzixpaki117's Channel

Leaves quite a nice presentation of what happens to minorities in India dont you think?


----------



## haviZsultan

TruthSeeker said:


> I am admitting to "hating" jihadis. Maybe you love them or merely "dislike" them? Anyway, after reading hundreds of posts on this forum, I am certainly used to the fact that most here do not feel kindly towards the USA and reflexively will challenge anything an American posts. That's OK. We can take it. Blast away!!



Thanx f4 providing the opportunity... we'll always be grateful...


----------



## Black Stone

TruthSeeker said:


> I am admitting to "hating" jihadis. Maybe you love them or merely "dislike" them? Anyway, after reading hundreds of posts on this forum, I am certainly used to the fact that most here do not feel kindly towards the USA and reflexively will challenge anything an American posts. That's OK. We can take it. Blast away!!



You have finally figured out how this forum works, I am proud of you.  

This is how it works, if you present facts to them they would blast you not because what you say is wrong, but because you are an American.

However, when their fellow countrymen says the same thing...everyone shuts up. 

That's why I like this forum, meet all kinds of people.


----------



## Imran Khan

*Gilani agrees to send ISI chief to India * 
Friday, November 28, 2008, (New Delhi/Islamabad)
Pakistan on Friday agreed to send the chief of its spy agency Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) to share information over the deadly terror attack in Mumbai after India blamed "some elements in Pakistan" for engineering the strike. 

Pakistan was quick to deny the charge of the alleged complicity of Pakistan-based terrorists in the attack and asked India not to "play politics", saying the two countries need to tackle this menace together. 

*Prime Minister Manmohan Singh requested his Pakistani counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani to send the ISI chief when the latter telephoned him in the morning, official sources said*.

Official sources in Islamabad said Gilani agreed to the request.

*This will be the first time Pakistan's spy agency chief will be visiting India in connection with the probe of a terror attack.* 

ISI is headed by Lt-General Ahmed Shuja Pasha, who was recently appointed to the post by army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

India and Pakistan deal with terrorism-related issues in home secretary-level talks and in the joint anti-terror mechanism they set up over two years ago. 

Pakistan's Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi, who is on a four-day visit to India, has suggested the setting up of a direct hotline between the intelligence chiefs of the two countries to bolster counter-terrorism cooperation. 

Indian security agencies have said that the existing evidence pointed to the Pakistan-based terror outfit Lashker-e-Taiba (LeT) whose men used the sea route from Karachi to launch a string of coordinated terror strikes Wednesday night.

The terrorists targeted at least 10 places, including two five-star hotels, in Mumbai that has killed at least 143 people and left over 300 injured. 

"According to preliminary information, some elements in Pakistan are responsible for Mumbai terror attacks," External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee told reporters in Jodhpur. 

*"Proof cannot be disclosed at this time," he said.*
"Please keep the [promise you made]. Please dismantle infrastructure (of terrorists), arrest them," Mukherjee said while reminding Pakistan of its Jan 6, 2004 pledge not to allow its territory to be used for terror attacks against India. 

Islamabad had reiterated this assurance at a meeting Manmohan Singh held with Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari on the margins of the UN General Assembly session Sep 24.

Eminent strategic experts and Pakistan-watchers, too, blamed elements in Pakistan for masterminding and executing the terror strikes in Mumbai, but were not sure whether these elements enjoyed the patronage of the nine-month-old civilian government in that country. 

"It could be rogue elements or jihadi elements in Pakistan who may not be under the control of the Pakistani government," K Subrahmanyam, a strategic expert, told IANS. 

"We should tell the international community that Pakistan is a failing state which does not have control over people living in its territory. All these jihadi elements are freely roaming in the streets of Pakistan," Subrahmanyam suggested. 

G Parthasarathy, a former Indian high commissioner to Pakistan, said it appeared to be the handiwork of the LeT. He pointed to the Deccan Mujahideen, a shadowy group which has claimed responsibility for the Mumbai attacks, and argued that no Indian, Hindu or Muslim, uses the word "Deccan" for the Indian city of Hyderabad. 

"It's a terminology that is used by only LeT. Their declared aim is to liberate the Muslim of India from Hindu rule, specially in the cities of Hyderabad, Junagarh and Kashmir," Parthasarathy said. 

In an address to the nation Thursday, Manmohan Singh said India will take up "strongly with our neighbours that the use of their territory for launching attacks on us will not be tolerated, and that there would be a cost if suitable measures are not taken by them".

Manmohan Singh had said the "well-planned and well-orchestrated attacks, probably with external linkages, were intended to create a sense of panic by choosing high profile targets and indiscriminately killing foreigners".

Pakistan's foreign minister, however, denied any role of his country in the Mumbai attacks.

"Do not be jingoistic. Understand the sentiments behind it," Qureshi told reporters in Ajmer in response to Mukherjee's remarks. 

"*Understand that there are innocent people affected by it. We are fighting the same issue. We are facing the common enemy. Do not bring politics into it. *
"This is a collective issue. We have to join hands (to fight terrorism," Qureshi stressed. 

In Islamabad, Zardari told Chinese Ambassador to Pakistan Luo Zhaohui and French Ambassador Daniel Jouanneau that terrorism is an international phenomena and offered assistance to India in investigating the incident. 

NDTV.com: Gilani agrees to send ISI chief to India


----------



## Awesome

TruthSeeker said:


> I am admitting to "hating" jihadis. Maybe you love them or merely "dislike" them? Anyway, after reading hundreds of posts on this forum, I am certainly used to the fact that most here do not feel kindly towards the USA and reflexively will challenge anything an American posts. That's OK. We can take it. Blast away!!


Chill, don't fuel another fire right now and lets stay on topic.


----------



## haviZsultan

Black Stone said:


> You have finally figured out how this forum works, I am proud of you.
> 
> This is how it works, if you present facts to them they would blast you not because what you say is wrong, but because you are an American.
> 
> However, when their fellow countrymen says the same thing...everyone shuts up.
> 
> That's why I like this forum, meet all kinds of people.



Ummm... that is very very sad! What has America ever done in this regard then? 

I think you should take us all out then, eh?


----------



## Awesome

Vinod2070 said:


> Obviously he made that speech because of the operation. In Agra the same general was openly dismissing the victims of terror as "collateral damage"
> 
> But after 9/11 it was like some "sagewala" died. He was so "sad" when he appeared on TV to express his "sorrow".
> 
> We took the time to ensure he delivers on his promise, given his track record and knowing how he was a slippery customer.


Excuses. You guys chickened out of a fight. You Blinked first.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## TruthSeeker

dimension117 said:


> Thanx f4 providing the opportunity... we'll always be grateful...



Yes, since I have no military background credentials (because I am CIA undercover), at least I can provide a punching bag for you guys to strike! You probably do not get the opportunity to joust with a unrepentant American very often! Glad to be at your service. Now, I must get back to my Predator control panel here. Time's awasting!


----------



## josh18

TruthSeeker said:


> I am admitting to "hating" jihadis. Maybe you love them or merely "dislike" them? Anyway, after reading hundreds of posts on this forum, I am certainly used to the fact that most here do not feel kindly towards the USA and reflexively will challenge anything an American posts. That's OK. We can take it. Blast away!!



Its not a matter of hating or disliking any one...America makes its own rules..if it feels that a particular group of people or a country should be targetted, it simply does that and the world follows... Germans, Japan, Russians, Vietnam, North Korea, Afganistan, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, China and the list does not end...how may countries you fought with? and you say that we should feel kind towards USA... By the way, I am an Indian and a Hindu...but I feel this terrorism thing has been started by USA for its benefit....

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## Awesome

Black Stone said:


> You have finally figured out how this forum works, I am proud of you.
> 
> This is how it works, if you present facts to them they would blast you not because what you say is wrong, but because you are an American.
> 
> However, when their fellow countrymen says the same thing...everyone shuts up.
> 
> That's why I like this forum, meet all kinds of people.


I'm sorry you guys feel this, way... This forum has no anti-American policy, nor do we support it in anyway.

This is a thread about an Indian tragedy and the fallout from it. I know the thread has flown in all directions but lets at least keep the semblance of being on topic. You can start another thread about all this but not here.


----------



## Imran Khan

*ISI CHIEF TO VISIT INDIA TO COORDINATE IN INVESTIGATION *



*Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Friday accepted a request from his Indian counterpart Manmohan Singh to send the ISI chief to India for sharing of information related to the terrorist attack in Mumbai. *
The Prime Minster's spokesman Zahid Bashir said *Singh had made a request to Gilani, asking him to send the ISI chief to India to "cooperate in the investigation of the Mumbai attacks and for sharing certain information". *
Bashir told PTI: "The Pakistani Prime Minister accepted this offer. The two sides will work out modalities for the visit of the Inter Services Intelligence chief which is expected to take place soon." 

Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha was recently appointed chief of the ISI by Pakistan Army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani. 

This would be the first instance of a chief of Pakistan's spy agency visiting India in connection with the investigation of a terror attack. 

Gilani had earlier said he was "really hurt" over the loss of innocent lives in Mumbai. "And from the people of Pakistan, and from the government of Pakistan, I really want to share the sorrows with the people of India and the government of India," he told CNN. 

Even as India blamed Pakistan-based "elements" for the Mumbai attacks, Islamabad today proposed setting up of hotline between intelligence chiefs and National Security Advisers of the two countries for regular contact and information sharing to fight terror jointly. 

In Delhi, Pakistan Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi suggested setting up of a hotline between intelligence chiefs and National Security Advisers of both countries. He said India should not accuse his country for terror attacks here till the investigations were complete. "Let us cooperate and not accuse each other," he said. 

His comments came hours after External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee said "some elements" based in Pakistan are responsible for the terror attacks in Mumbai. 

Contending that India is an "important neighbour" for Pakistan, Qureshi said he always advocated friendly co-existence between the two countries and that he has come here to "build bridges". 

"I want to turn the tide from confrontation to cooperation," he said. Noting that Pakistan is dealing with terrorism on a daily basis, Qureshi said terrorism is not a regional problem but a global phenomena. 

Qureshi said it would be too premature to level allegations against Pakistan as it also has, like India, zero- tolerance towards terrorism. He said any knee-jerk reaction should be avoided and contended that India had levelled allegations in the Samjautha Express train fire case and today investigations have taken a new turn. 

Qureshi was apparently referring to reports suggesting the involvement of Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur in the case. "It may be that even these (Mumbai terror attack) investigations may take another turn," he said. 

Qureshi also said Pakistan condemns the terror attacks in Mumbai that killed more than 150 people in "strongest possible terms". 



ISI Chief To Visit India


----------



## TruthSeeker

Black Stone said:


> You have finally figured out how this forum works, I am proud of you.
> 
> This is how it works, if you present facts to them they would blast you not because what you say is wrong, but because you are an American.
> 
> However, when their fellow countrymen says the same thing...everyone shuts up.
> 
> That's why I like this forum, meet all kinds of people.



Right on! Bro! And, another corollary, when you are a minority like us yanks are here, we get each others back.


----------



## Neo

TruthSeeker said:


> I am admitting to "hating" jihadis. Maybe you love them or merely "dislike" them? Anyway, after reading hundreds of posts on this forum, I am certainly used to the fact that most here do not feel kindly towards the USA and reflexively will challenge anything an American posts. That's OK. We can take it. Blast away!!



Most Pakistani's feel betrayed by USA, we've been bullied, threatened and hit again and again by sanctions and embargoes despite being a close ally. Now you're in bed with our adversary (123 deal, weapons, future alliance). 
US foreign policy is to blame, we're still there doing your (dirty) job in the region.


----------



## josh18

Black Stone said:


> You have finally figured out how this forum works, I am proud of you.
> 
> This is how it works, if you present facts to them they would blast you not because what you say is wrong, but because you are an American.
> 
> However, when their fellow countrymen says the same thing...everyone shuts up.
> 
> That's why I like this forum, meet all kinds of people.



Sir, I am an Indian.....not one of their countrymen...so whom did you meet today?


----------



## Neo

Black Stone said:


> You have finally figured out how this forum works, I am proud of you.
> 
> This is how it works, if you present facts to them they would blast you not because what you say is wrong, but because you are an American.
> 
> However, when their fellow countrymen says the same thing...everyone shuts up.
> 
> That's why I like this forum, meet all kinds of people.



791 posts and you come up with this conclusion?
Bravo! 
Why do you bother to waste your precious time in a dump like this?


----------



## Munir

Neo said:


> Most Pakistani's feel betrayed by USA, we've been bullied, threatened and hit again and again by sanctions and embargoes despite being a close ally. Now you're in bed with our adversary (123 deal, weapons, future alliance).
> US foreign policy is to blame, we're still there doing your (dirty) job in the region.



Imagine the world without USA acting as a dictator... It ruined pretty much everything... Now even the world economy.

(I think that is what most people think in Pakistan).


----------



## Imran Khan

BACHCHAN SLEEPS WITH GUN UNDER PILLOW AFTER ATTACKS 
He may have acted as an outlaw umpteen times on the screen but the terror attacks in Mumbai were enough to shake Amitabh Bachchan up who kept his revolver under his pillow while going to sleep.  

"Last night, as the events of the terror attack unfolded in front of me I did something for the first time and one that I had hoped never ever to be in a situation to do. Before retiring for the night, I pulled out my licensed .32 revolver, loaded it and put it under my pillow. For a very disturbed sleep," the megastar wrote on his blog. 

Bachchan was glued to TV screen as security personnel battled the militants yesterday, also the birth anniversary of his father.


----------



## Munir

DID YOU GUYS NOTICE HOW FAST THIS TOPIC GROWS???

Wow amazing. Good job mods.


----------



## Vinod2070

josh18 said:


> Sir, I am an Indian.....not one of their countrymen...so whom did you meet today?





josh18 said:


> By the way, I am an Indian and a Hindu...but I feel this terrorism thing has been started by USA for its benefit....



Well, you seem to need to prove your nationality more than people normally do!


----------



## haviZsultan

Asim Aquil said:


> Chill, don't fuel another fire right now and lets stay on topic.



What topic! Sab wahi cheezein kahengey...

We're always going to say the same things! lol.

This thread is a party place now...


----------



## Awesome

Munir said:


> DID YOU GUYS NOTICE HOW FAST THIS TOPIC GROWS???
> 
> Wow amazing. Good job mods.


Well we're known to be the hub of Indo-Pak debates. 

This thread is a testament to that. We appreciate the contribution of all the South Asian members, but the quality in the past 2 days could've been a little better.

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## Neo

* Back to the topic please.
Thanks!*


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## Awesome

dimension117 said:


> What topic! Sab wahi cheezein kahengey...
> 
> We're always going to say the same things! lol.
> 
> This thread is a party place now...


hahahahahahahaha lol.


----------



## josh18

Vinod2070 said:


> Well, you seem to need to prove your nationality more than people normally do!



Yes! I do...


----------



## Neo

*Terrorism in Mumbai and its fallout​*
Even as India was facing the unfolding saga of Hindu terrorism whose tentacles seem to go into its armed forces, the country has been struck by another terrorist attack in Mumbai. The Wednesday mayhem will change the political paradigm in India and therefore also in South Asia. Heavily armed terrorists calling themselves the Deccan Mujahideen, a group unknown thus far, stormed luxury hotels, a popular tourist attraction and a crowded train station in at least seven attacks in Indias financial capital, killing over 100 people by latest count including the Mumbai Anti-Terror Squad chief. Analysts have cautioned against jumping to any conclusion but say the group might have some linkage with Al Qaeda or its ideology  even though until now investigators have not found an Al Qaeda spoor in the many terrorist attacks in India since 2003.

It is significant that the terrorists have targeted British and American visitors too and were holding foreigners hostage, including some European parliamentarians. Reports indicate 9 foreigners are among those killed. The grievance on the basis of which the Indian Muslim terrorists usually own up their acts has thus expanded to include a global agenda. The Deccan Mujahideen  whoever they are  while talking about atrocities in Kashmir have also thrown in references to places other than India where the Muslims are said to be suffering at the hands of America and Britain. The hidden reference is to Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan.

In the past, the reference was clearly inferred. Everything went back to the Muslim carnage in Gujarat in 2002 in which 1,100 men, women and children were killed and over 150,000 ousted from homes. At the local level, every time an act of terrorism was committed in India, Pakistan was somehow named. Ongoing investigations into some terrorist attacks that were alternately blamed on Indian Muslims and Pakistan have shown that they were actually carried out by a Hindu terrorist network. But facts aside, this is how the collective psyche of fear works. One credible event is remembered and then myths are attached to it. The same sort of thing happens on the Pakistani side. Taken together, this trend forms the brick-wall against which all efforts at normalising Indo-Pak relations come to a halt.

Luckily, when the Mumbai mayhem occurred, the two countries were engaged in a dialogue at two levels. The foreign ministers were meeting in New Delhi and the interior secretaries were meeting in Islamabad, trying to resolve disputes and raising the level of cooperation against terrorism. Pakistan was among the first countries that sent messages of solidarity to New Delhi after the Mumbai outrage by the Deccan Mujahideen. The message from Islamabad is entirely credible but will it be convincing too? There is no doubt that Pakistan is under attack from the same kind of mujahideen. The latest message emanating from South Waziristan is that the Taliban will now be targeting President Zardari and his political allies. The reason for this threat is America whose supplies through Pakistan will be disrupted, according to a deputy of Baitullah Mehsud.

The need is to work out cooperative strategies because all states are under threat from the scourge of terrorism. Unfortunately this is made nearly impossible by domestic political oppositions and their desire for point scoring. In India, the Mumbai attacks will give the rightwing parties the stick to beat the government with. The BJP was already getting jittery over investigations that were spreading into the underground labyrinth of the Parivars terrorism. It will now get the opportunity to accuse the UPA government of being soft on terrorism (read: Muslims). Somewhere along the line it may also throw in the reference to Pakistan. The speech by Indian prime minister Manmohan Singh and his assertion that New Delhi will take up strongly the use of neighbours territory to launch attacks on India could be a reference to Pakistan or Bangladesh or both. At the minimum it seems to be an attempt by Dr Singh to pre-empt criticism from the Hindu rightwing.

At home, reactions are rendering the credibility of the PPP government doubtful. In fact, Prime Minister Gilani is under attack from the opposition in parliament which says that President Zardari has more powers than the prime minister and that the system under the PPP government is an extension of the Musharraf presidential regime. However, what is eschewed are constitutional and conceptual nuances. Pakistan has seen two extremes, all-powerful prime ministers that render presidents useless and all-powerful presidents that make prime ministers look like puppets. The debate should have focused on how to work out the correct balance but, predictably, has been informed by petty politicking rather than any intellectual effort. The animus is fired further by allegations and counter-allegations about promises made and broken.

These internal imbalances are not good for Pakistan and India. Pakistan is in dire economic straits and needs assistance from its friends abroad; Indian markets are already down 56 percent on back of the global downturn. Both countries need to cooperate in the new environment of terrorism; neither is ideally placed to do so.


----------



## Black Stone

Neo said:


> 791 posts and you come up with this conclusion?
> Bravo!
> Why do you bother to waste your precious time in a dump like this?



Neo, You and Asim has replied to my same post.

Asim's response is more neutral and an act of a good Admin and I agree with him with what he said.

It is a shame you cannot do the same but coming up with such statements like...



> Why do you bother to waste your precious time in a dump like this?



Did you not read my last sentence of my post that I like this forum?.

Seriously, you should learn from Asim how to be a more neutral Admin.


----------



## TruthSeeker

Neo said:


> * Back to the topic please.
> Thanks!*



Sorry, Neo if I contributed to the misdirection of the thread topic. I'm posting this one to get my 26th post and maybe a promotion to Lieutenant? Me bad.

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## Neo

Black Stone said:


> Neo, You and Asim has replied to my same post.
> 
> Asim's response is more neutral and an act of a good Admin and I agree with him with what he said.
> 
> It is a shame you cannot do the same but coming up with such statements like...
> 
> Did you not read my last sentence of my post that I like this forum?.
> 
> Seriously, you should learn from Asim how to be a more neutral Admin.



Point taken but my argument stands.


----------



## haviZsultan

TruthSeeker said:


> Yes, since I have no military background credentials (because I am CIA undercover), at least I can provide a punching bag for you guys to strike! You probably do not get the opportunity to joust with a unrepentant American very often! Glad to be at your service. Now, I must get back to my Predator control panel here. Time's awasting!



Dont come across the tribal areas into Pakhtunkhwa (NWFP) though or send ground forces in... we gave out instructions to strike the predators down...

Send me some of those predators. I want to use them for them stupid afghans and uzbeks who keep coming from your side. 

We will also provide u with training if u need so that u can actively stop terrorists from entering Pakistani territory but most important of all i think u should come here to take lessons in diplomacy. All ur allies seem to be pissed with u if u haven't noticed for supporting our adverseries and being lousy allies to say the least.


----------



## Awesome

Black Stone said:


> Neo, You and Asim has replied to my same post.
> 
> Asim's response is more neutral and an act of a good Admin and I agree with him with what he said.
> 
> It is a shame you cannot do the same but coming up with such statements like...
> 
> 
> 
> Did you not read my last sentence of my post that I like this forum?.
> 
> Seriously, you should learn from Asim how to be a more neutral Admin.


As much as I like the compliment, but Neo is a much nicer guy than I am, twice over. We have put our sweat and money into the success of this forum and its a free world, people will agree/disagree with you. Why attack the forum for free speech you disagree with?

Its a tense situation, I don't know why Americans suddenly are choosing this venue (thread) to feel offended. If anything, let us know in many other ways that are available. But cut it out from this thread.

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## jeypore

josh18 said:


> Its not a matter of hating or disliking any one...America makes its own rules..if it feels that a particular group of people or a country should be targetted, it simply does that and the world follows... Germans, Japan, Russians, Vietnam, North Korea, Afganistan, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, China and the list does not end...how may countries you fought with? and you say that we should feel kind towards USA... By the way, I am an Indian and a Hindu...but I feel this terrorism thing has been started by USA for its benefit....




You are very of based on your comments here. Americans does not make it own rules like you suggest, Americans will not play appeasment game like rest of countries do.

And you are way of based saying that Americans have started the terrorism. How is USA benefiting regarding terrorism you must elaborate on this please.

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## Neo

*Airlines cancel flights to Mumbai​*
PARIS: A number of airlines cancelled flights to Mumbai Thursday after attacks across the city left more than 100 people dead and hundreds more injured, operators said.

Italys flag-carrier Alitalia, which is in severe financial straits, cancelled all its flights to Bombay until further notice, a company spokeswoman said. German airline Lufthansa said it had scrapped two flights to Mumbai that had been due to leave Frankfurt and Munich on Thursday. The two planes had also been due to return from Mumbai with 600 passengers on board, a company spokesman said. The airline was trying to ensure that stranded passengers could fly home via other Indian cities such as New Delhi. Air France cancelled a flight from Mumbai to Paris and one from the French capital to the Indian city timed for 10:30 am, the company said.

US-based Delta airlines also cancelled one flight from Mumbai to Seattle via Amsterdam. South African Airways delayed the departure of its daily flight to Mumbai by two hours, while British Airways said its services in both directions were normal.


----------



## haviZsultan

Asim Aquil said:


> As much as I like the compliment, but Neo is a much nicer guy than I am, twice over. We have put our sweat and money into the success of this forum and its a free world, people will agree/disagree with you. Why attack the forum for free speech you disagree with?
> 
> Its a tense situation, I don't know why Americans suddenly are choosing this venue (thread) to feel offended. If anything, let us know in many other ways that are available. But cut it out from this thread.



They've been living in isolation for years. They dont know what the rest of the world feels or thinks about them. I think americans should start getting out of there and seeing the world. 

They dont know what kind of effect going for a nuclear deal with india will have while on the other hand in 98 when pakistanis went nuclear because of their larger aggressive neighbors they were sanctioned. They dont get it do they...


----------



## Chanakya.10

Here is the video of the terrorist speaking......

And obviously the tone of speaking is not Hindi, but punjabi or pathani i guess.......

Rediff iShare: Terrorist calling himself Sahadullah speaks to India tv


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## josh18

jeypore said:


> You are very of based on your comments here. Americans does not make it own rules like you suggest, Americans will not play appeasment game like rest of countries do.
> 
> And you are way of based saying that Americans have started the terrorism. How is USA benefiting regarding terrorism you must elaborate on this please.



Remeber Afgan mujahideens against Russians...what was that?


----------



## Neo

TruthSeeker said:


> Sorry, Neo if I contributed to the misdirection of the thread topic. I'm posting this one to get my 26th post and maybe a promotion to Lieutenant? Me bad.



Welcome aboard Lieutanant! 
How do you think this event is going to of any influence in Obama's SA policy?
I understand that CIA is on its way to India.


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## Chanakya.10

One more

Rediff iShare: 2nd Terrorist speaks from Nariman house


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## Awesome

"Sab cheezein apke saamne ayega"

Typical South Indian

"Abhi hum julam aur jiyadtian nahi bardasht karega"

Pakistanis say ZULM, Ziyadati!

This is typical Indian!

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## haviZsultan

Chanakya.10 said:


> Here is the video of the terrorist speaking......
> 
> And obviously the tone of speaking is not Indian, but punjabi or pathani i guess.......
> 
> Rediff iShare: Terrorist calling himself Sahadullah speaks to India tv



I am sure you have not even seen a punjabi or pathan from pakistan as much as open his mouth let alone one live speaking pathan or panjabi but ofcourse what entertainment this is for you while the real culprits laugh it out in the safety of their homes in India. Wow. 

However please remember chanakya we will always be there to support you in this great time of peril that India is facing. We stand with the Indian people and condemn this act which has been carried out by an intelligence agency (RAW) which has crossed all limits this day. 

Americans Pakistanis Afghans Somalians whatever else...  should all unite against this one terrorist organization.


----------



## Flintlock

*Update:*

2 things have slowed down the operations:

1. Ensure safety of civilians
2. Try to capture the terrorists alive

The 2nd point is more important - they want to get as much information as possible, and they are not trying to go all out and bomb the hell out of them.

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## TruthSeeker

Neo said:


> Welcome aboard Lieutanant!
> How do you think this event is going to of any influence in Obama's SA policy?
> I understand that CIA is on its way to India.



Neo! Neo! Neo! I am ashamed of you. You want us to stay on thread topic and then you ask me this?? Well, I will follow your previous request and not further ontribute to the pro anti USA talk on this thread.


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## dr.umer

Asim Aquil said:


> "Sab cheezein apke saamne ayega"
> 
> Typical South Indian
> 
> "Abhi hum julam aur jiyadtian nahi bardasht karega"
> 
> Pakistanis say ZULM, Ziyadati!
> 
> This is typical Indian!



Agreed


----------



## haviZsultan

Asim Aquil said:


> "Sab cheezein apke saamne ayega"
> 
> Typical South Indian
> 
> "Abhi hum julam aur jiyadtian nahi bardasht karega"
> 
> Pakistanis say ZULM, Ziyadati!
> 
> This is typical Indian!



exactly man... its gujrat or hyd'z accent f4 telugu's... i've even stayed there... they use this sorta talkin style which in Pakistan is considered very rude and actually slang... 

Its all Indians! Infact we should check if his beard is real or not. He may secret shiv senik.


----------



## Imran Khan

why they never under stand its clear ATA ATA is not pakistani and julm jiayati no one say in pakistan were is that aria in pakistan like this ?


----------



## Neo

TruthSeeker said:


> Neo! Neo! Neo! I am ashamed of you. You want us to stay on thread topic and then you ask me this?? Well, I will follow your previous request and not further ontribute to the pro anti USA talk on this thread.



Not fully offtopic Sir, but agreed.
We'll continue in some other thread.


----------



## t-birds

Putin Urges Calm As India Readies Nuclear Forces

Russian Foreign Ministry sources are reporting that Prime Minister Putin has telephoned Indias Prime Minister Manmohan Singh urging him to react to the attacks upon his Mumbai with calm after being informed by Singh that he has invoked Indias National Security Act which puts their Nuclear Forces on 
full alert.



Indias NDTV News Service is further reporting that their elite Marine Commando Forces (MCF) are continuing their battles against the terrorist forces holding an estimated 150 hostages and that the death toll is over 200 dead with nearly 1,000 wounded.

Indian Military Intelligence sources are also reporting to the FSB that the initial confessions of those terrorists apprehended show that they are from Pakistan and had entered into Mumbai with what is being termed a strategic attack plan giving full details of the attack including the security plans and procedures of all hotels targeted in these attacks.

As we had previously reported on in our previous report, Kissinger-Obama Team Targeted In Horrific India Terror Attack, Pakistans Directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence [ISI] and US CIA forces are believed to be the masterminds behind these attacks in order to derail President-Elect Obamas attempts to bring a permanent peace to the Southeast Asia in his hopes of averting Total Global War.

This latest attack against India, these reports continue, appear to have permanently destroyed Obamas hopes for achieving this peace as the tensions between the nuclear armed Nations of India and Pakistan which were already near the breaking point over Pakistans ISI intelligence services bombing of the Indian Embassy in Afghanistan in July and which killed over 40 people. 

Newly elected Pakistan Prime Minister Asif Ali Zardari, who ascended to power after the ISIs assassination of Benazir Bhutto, has sought to reign in the power of the rogue agency but only with limited success, and as we can read as reported by the Los Angles Times News Service:

Pakistan's powerful spy agency, the Directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence, has quietly shut down a unit that for decades spied on domestic politicians and exerted shadowy influence in affairs of state.

Analysts described the decision to deactivate the ISI's "political wing" as the latest in a series of steps meant to separate the army and the security apparatus from domestic politics -- and also to rehabilitate the spy agency's battered public image.

The ISI, which nurtured the Taliban movement in the 1990s, has been dogged by allegations that elements within the agency are acting in concert with Islamic militant groups. Those tensions came to a head earlier this year when U.S. intelligence officials confronted Pakistan's new civilian government with evidence of ISI complicity in militant activities, including the July bombing of the Indian Embassy in Afghanistan, and demanded agency reforms.

At the height of its powers, the ISI's secretive political wing rigged national elections and arrested and intimidated domestic opponents, according to public accounts provided by some retired ISI officials.

Not being understood by the American people about the attacks upon India is their Bush Administrations long push to have the Indian government and military factions join with them in their attempt to enjoin our World in Total War, and which up until today India has strongly resisted and which after today their own peoples may not allow them to do.

If the worst is to be expected, than our World will see a rapid escalation of hostilities between India and Pakistan leading to nuclear strikes which will destroy the already bankrupt Nation of Pakistan and lead to the last buffer between the West and its goal of South and Central Asia hegemony over the last remaining proven oil and gas riches on Earth to be removed.

However, Russia, Iran and China have vowed that should the West attempt this move against them they will respond, and which as of this moment the Western Powers appear ready to accept, no matter how many hundreds of millions of our human race will be killed. 

To those remaining skeptical over the United States and its Western Allies intentions to engulf the entire World in flames in order to insure their extravagant lifestyles while over half of our human race is starving to death, this attack on India should dispel any of their remaining illusions.


----------



## haviZsultan

TruthSeeker said:


> Neo! Neo! Neo! I am ashamed of you. You want us to stay on thread topic and then you ask me this?? Well, I will follow your previous request and not further ontribute to the pro anti USA talk on this thread.



Duh... its a forum yaar... chill out. 

We dont talk like this when we see any american on the street. This is a forum and the purpose is debate. Ask neo if its true... Neo its true rite? Yup its true... 

So here we can for entertainment purposes etc we can say discuss the situation rite now.


----------



## shchinese

Flintlock said:


> *Update:*
> 
> 2 things have slowed down the operations:
> 
> 1. Ensure safety of civilians
> 2. Try to capture the terrorists alive
> 
> The 2nd point is more important - they want to get as much information as possible, and they are not trying to go all out and bomb the hell out of them.



 by using those 1895 Lee-Enfield rifle?

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## TruthSeeker

Uh Oh! the Chinese rifle provocateur is back!

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## Awesome

dimension117 said:


> exactly man... its gujrat or hyd'z accent f4 telugu's... i've even stayed there... they use this sorta talkin style which in Pakistan is considered very rude and actually slang...
> 
> Its all Indians! Infact we should check if his beard is real or not. He may secret shiv senik.


In fact he says that we were in India and we got tired of all the oppression and then took up arms.

They didn't come from anywhere but from India.

The boat theory is bogus. Not one boat was captured which was found to have transported these guys.


----------



## Imran Khan

i note some more points 

35 sec PERSHASAN 

58 sec PARSHASAN KYA NATAK KERTA HAI

1 mint ITHAAS UTHA KE DEKHO

1 min 22sec YE PARIVAR NAZER A RAHY HAI

1 min 24 sec HAMARA PARIVAAR

1 min 35 sec BABRI MASJID ITZAAR KER RAHA HAI [masjid kerty hai karta nhi]


----------



## Flintlock

*Is anyone reading my updates?*


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## Awesome

That conversation is damning evidence that they are Indians!


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## josh18

shchinese said:


> by using those 1895 Lee-Enfield rifle?
> QUOTE]
> 
> Yes because the terroists were using chinese hand graneds...


----------



## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> *Is anyone reading my updates?*


Yeh Flint, appreciate it.


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## Vinod2070

Whoever identified this Chicom here as Munshi part 2 deserves a Nobel prize.


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## Awesome

imran khan said:


> i note some more points
> 
> 35 sec PERSHASAN
> 
> 58 sec PARSHASAN KYA NATAK KERTA HAI
> 
> 1 mint ITHAAS UTHA KE DEKHO
> 
> 1 min 22sec YE PARIVAR NAZER A RAHY HAI
> 
> 1 min 24 sec HAMARA PARIVAAR
> 
> 1 min 35 sec BABRI MASJID ITZAAR KER RAHA HAI [masjid kerty hai karta nhi]


Oh yeah I forgot... He said Parshasan!

Wth is that? Is that Hindi? Thats too pure Hindi for even me to understand!


----------



## Chanakya.10

shchinese said:


> by using those 1895 Lee-Enfield rifle?





U are really the most undignified Chinese i have ever known.... I respected Chinese people tell i know u........

Now guess the gun, the commondo is outside the TAJ hotel...

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## Imran Khan

1min 43 sec AP KI SENA KA KARNEAL

2min 18 sec BHAGWA HAKUMAT ?

2min 44 sec 100 SALA JINDGI SE bhter hai aik din sher ka jeen

3 min 5 sec khon se hollyan

4 min 13 sc GAON SE AYA HAI


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## Vinod2070

It seems all of them have been dispatched to hell.


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## Flintlock

*That is regular army, not Commandos (or perhaps Army commandos)*



Chanakya.10 said:


> U are really the most undignified Chinese i have ever known.... I respected Chinese people tell i know u........
> 
> Now guess the gun, the commondo is outside the TAJ hotel...


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## Awesome

30 mins later another will emerge.


----------



## Vinod2070

Chanakya.10 said:


> *U are really the most undignified Chinese i have ever known.... I respected Chinese people tell i know u........*
> 
> Now guess the gun, the commondo is outside the TAJ hotel...



Exactly.

This guy is seriously lowering the average IQ and dignity of the Chinese.

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## Patriot

Asim Aquil said:


> 30 mins later another will emerge.


Agreed!
*Gilani terms Indian allegations deplorable*
ISLAMABAD: President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani Friday said that allegations leveled by India against Pakistan without any proof was deplorable even though Pakistan denounced the terror attacks strongly.

The Prime Minister met the President here at the presidency where Deputy Speaker National Assembly also joined them later.

Gilani underlined the need for both India and Pakistan to fight terrorism together.

He said Pakistans territory is not being used for terrorist activities against any other country including India.

On the occasion the President said Pakistan itself was a victim of terrorism and its leader Benazir Bhutto also fell prey to it.

They also discussed the agenda of National Security Committee meeting to be held on December 2 and the use of IMF aid.

The president also apprised the prime minister and deputy speaker about his recent visit to the UAE.


----------



## Imran Khan

4 min 16 sec GAB JULUM OR JIYATYAAN

4 min 19 sec THAK GYA HAI

4 MIN 21 sec MAJBOOR HO GYA HAI

4 min 24 sec ITHASS BATA RAHA HOON

4 MIN 28 sec AP LOG KESA BAT KERTA HAI

4 min 50 julum jiyatyyan

5 min 8 sec tumhary ko

5 min 16 hamay ko agg

5min 34 sec KOI PAREEWAR

6 min 12 sec HAMARY KO two times note

6 min 21 sec PAAT SHALA very important any one know in pakistan waht is PAAT SHALA ?

6 min 23 sec VIDHY SHALY whats mean this word ?

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## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> 30 mins later another will emerge.



And will be swiftly dispatched to hell.


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## Awesome

There is a strong possibility this government won't last till the May elections.

The center will probably collapse in India with early elections now.


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## Flintlock

*Update:*

-GPS and Sat Phone found on a ship in the Arabian Sea

-GPS data reveals that the ship sailed from Karachi on Nov 12th or 13th

-Phone was used to call Lashkar Commander in Muzaffarabad (Yusuf Muzamil)

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## josh18

Asim Aquil said:


> There is a strong possibility this government won't last till the May elections.
> 
> The center will probably collapse in India with early elections now.



Its there on the cards if the Congress Government fails to deliver on this issue and probably will suffer very badly in polls.


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## Vinod2070

Flintlock said:


> *Update:*
> 
> -GPS and Sat Phone found on a ship in the Arabian Sea
> 
> -GPS data reveals that the ship sailed from Karachi on Nov 12th or 13th
> 
> -Phone was used to call Lashkar Commaner in Muzaffarabad (Yusuf Muzamil)



Let us see. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

If Pakistan hands over this Yusuf idiot, that will be the proof that it means business this time.

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## Flintlock

*Update:*

-About 40 terrorists entered India - most of them were Pakistani. This obviously means that most of the terrorists are still at large within India. If you remember, several terrorists escaped by hijacking police vehicle initially. These guys are still at large and they may lay low for some time before launching an attack in Mumbai itself or perhaps in other cities.


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## Chanakya.10

Shaheed NSG Commando Major Sandeep Unni Krishnan........

His orkut profile orkut -




 

  <-----A terrorist

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## Pk_Thunder

Chanakya.10 said:


> No no no what are you saying Sir.....
> No pakistan involvement......
> No ISI involvement......
> LeT has denied their involvement....and we agree coz we know the guys are so honest..........
> This must be Hindu/Jew/CIA/Neocon conspiracy to defame ISI and LeT......
> 
> *I dont believe all this.... Indians are very good at making stories..*.......



yes i agree with the above highlighted line


----------



## Vinod2070

josh18 said:


> Sir we do remember 1962 and how can we foget that...but it is 2008. Say thanks to your tank cause our tanks dont say hello...they say "Hell You"....



He would do well to remember Nanjing, Vietnam, the Japanese and Mangol invasions and hope that it won't happen again.

They don't even need that. Just one more Mao is enough to kill another 50 millions like him.


----------



## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> *Update:*
> 
> -About 40 terrorists entered India - most of them were Pakistani. This obviously means that most of the terrorists are still at large within India. If you remember, several terrorists escaped by hijacking police vehicle initially. These guys are still at large and they may lay low for some time before launching an attack in Mumbai itself or perhaps in other cities.


You can't call it an update and blame Pakistan, you have to add "allegedly".


----------



## Flintlock

Chanakya.10 said:


> Shaheed NSG Commando Major Sandeep Unni Krishnan........


----------



## josh18

His orkut profile orkut -


This orkut link does not work...


----------



## s90

Amazing propoganda Indian media doing,they are literally as if crying  

"India forces Pak to send ISI chief" - Times of India


----------



## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> You can't call it an update and blame Pakistan, you have to add "allegedly".



You're right - its merely a speculation.


----------



## s90

*Israel foreign minister not optimistic about hostages in Mumbai*

JERUSALEM: Israel's foreign minister says there is "no room for great optimism" about the fate of Israeli hostages inside a Jewish centre in Mumbai.


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## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> You can't call it an update and blame Pakistan, you have to add "allegedly".



After all those fantastic conspiracy theories since morning, this is really hilarious coming from you.


----------



## dr.umer

Chanakya.10 said:


> No no no what are you saying Sir.....
> No pakistan involvement......
> No ISI involvement......
> LeT has denied their involvement....and we agree coz we know the guys are so honest..........
> This must be Hindu/Jew/CIA/Neocon conspiracy to defame ISI and LeT......
> 
> I dont believe all this.... Indians are very good at making stories.........





Flintlock said:


> *Update:*
> 
> -About 40 terrorists entered India - most of them were Pakistani. This obviously means that most of the terrorists are still at large within India. If you remember, several terrorists escaped by hijacking police vehicle initially. These guys are still at large and they may lay low for some time before launching an attack in Mumbai itself or perhaps in other cities.



Update.

NDTV Reports.

Many foreigners have been held hostage by the terrorists. "Gunmen took 15 hostages and half of them foreigners," said an eyewitness at Taj hotel.

"Gunmen wanted anyone with British or American passport," said another eyewitness.

*Maharashtra Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh said that around 20-25 terrorists entered Mumbai their nationalities are yet to be ascertained. Five terrorists have been killed so far, many escaped and one has been arrested. *


----------



## dr.umer

dr.umer said:


> Five terrorists have been killed so far, many escaped and one has been arrested.



Many Terrorist escaped ??? How come ? Good at blaming and poor at security arrangements.


----------



## s90

*Slanging match between Congress, BJP* lmao yeh very united they were for one day 

NEW DELHI: Even before the gunbattle with terrorists in Mumbai could end, a slanging match today began between ruling Congress and opposition BJP on 
the issue of handling of internal security and dealing with terrorists.

*BJP's Prime Ministerial candidate L K Advani accused the intelligence agencies of failing to get a whiff of Mumbai terror attacks, alleging their preoccupation with "Hindu terror"--an apparent reference to Malegaon blast probe--helped the terrorist plot go undetected.*


----------



## Chanakya.10

dr.umer said:


> Many Terrorist escaped ??? How come ? Good at blaming and poor at security arrangements.



It is a city with 1.8 cr people..... We didnt know that they were coming..........They fired at stations and ran away........


----------



## Chanakya.10

There is an Israeli boy in Mumbai.
He is 3 years old, and today is his birthday.
He lost his parents and grandparents in the Nariman point bombings.


I wish i were in Mumbai to adopt that kid. Poor baby.
RIP


----------



## s90

*BBC* (Its big intel failure) 

Militants *stocked weapons and explosives, including 40 grenades, inside the Oberoi-Trident hotel before launching their attacks,* an Indian Intelligence Bureau source tells AFP news agency. Agents have reportedly arrested a suspected Islamic militant who checked into the hotel four days before the attacks.


----------



## Flintlock

s90 said:


> *Israel foreign minister not optimistic about hostages in Mumbai*
> 
> JERUSALEM: Israel's foreign minister says there is "no room for great optimism" about the fate of Israeli hostages inside a Jewish centre in Mumbai.



You're a bit late - all the Israelis are dead, except for a small girl who is now an orphan.


----------



## Awesome

s90 said:


> *Slanging match between Congress, BJP* lmao yeh very united they were for one day
> 
> NEW DELHI: Even before the gunbattle with terrorists in Mumbai could end, a slanging match today began between ruling Congress and opposition BJP on
> the issue of handling of internal security and dealing with terrorists.
> 
> *BJP's Prime Ministerial candidate L K Advani accused the intelligence agencies of failing to get a whiff of Mumbai terror attacks, alleging their preoccupation with "Hindu terror"--an apparent reference to Malegaon blast probe--helped the terrorist plot go undetected.*


BJP is full of it. The Indian government couldn't possibly control things because of the Infrastructure within India is too weak to control such incidents from totally happening.

I hope there are not early elections in India. BJP would win the elections on the promise of starting a war in South Asia.


----------



## Chanakya.10

Asim Aquil said:


> BJP is full of it. The Indian government couldn't possibly control things because of the Infrastructure within India is too weak to control such incidents from totally happening.
> 
> I hope there are not early elections in India. BJP would win the elections on the promise of starting a war in South Asia.



I hope BJP wins, the congress govt. is too inept to deal with this situation............

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## Skywalker

Chanakya.10 said:


> No no no what are you saying Sir.....
> No pakistan involvement......
> No ISI involvement......
> LeT has denied their involvement....and we agree coz we know the guys are so honest..........
> This must be Hindu/Jew/CIA/Neocon conspiracy to defame ISI and LeT......
> 
> I dont believe all this.... Indians are very good at making stories.........



FIrst time I agree 100% with an INdian, although you are just cracking a joke. Guess whatLeT is as i nnocent as RAW in Fata and Balouchistan.


----------



## dr.umer

Chanakya.10 said:


> It is a city with 1.8 cr people..... We didnt know that they were coming..........They fired at stations and ran away........



Obviously they will not make a phone call before coming. It was duty of intelligence agencies to figure it out but they failed.

So many of them escaped according to report. 20-25 entered. Suppose half of them escaped, remaining 12 divided into 3 groups of 4 terrorist each and took Taj, Nariman House and Oberoi-Trident mainly. 

Are you suggesting that 4 terrorists at each place are causing such stiff resistance against sophisticated Indian Army ???


----------



## jeypore

Asim Aquil said:


> BJP is full of it. The Indian government couldn't possibly control things because of the Infrastructure within India is too weak to control such incidents from totally happening.
> 
> I hope there are not early elections in India. BJP would win the elections on the promise of starting a war in South Asia.




BJP is not full of it, and i do want BJP to win the next election. Anyways congress has to act at this given point or all there jobs in jeopardy.


----------



## Flintlock

*Evidence with Indian Agencies:*

-Captured terrorist says 40 terrorists part of the operation. 

-29 Pakistani and rest Bangladeshi

-20 were living in Mumbai a week before the attack

-Rest came by sea - bringing arms and ammunition

-The 20 living in Mumbai came to know the innards of the Taj and Oberoi and planned the attack.

-Abu Ismail from Faridkot Pakistan was interrogated.

-Group assembled in Lashkar base in Pakistan.

-The terrorists were well trained to handle sophisticated weapons

-Maritime security is lax

-Traveling time between Karachi and Mumbai is 4 hours 

-They traveled upto a certain place by sea and then rowed to shore using rubber boats.

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## jeypore

josh18 said:


> Remeber Afgan mujahideens against Russians...what was that?




That was a proxy war. Also what was that about vietnam, where Chines and russian help. What was that?


----------



## dr.umer

*Mumbai attacks: India accused of bungling anti-terror operation​*
28 Nov 2008

Telegraph UK

India has faced international accusations of bungling its response to the terror attack.

*One senior British official said he was "surprised" by the Indian failure to regain control of the commercial capital almost two days after the attacks began. And a senior source within the Indian Special Forces was also critical of the uncoordinated and bureaucratic response which led to the operation lasting so long.*

*Israeli officials said India's refusal of its offer to send commandos had put the lives of a rabbi and his family in danger.*

They were held at Nariman House, the single story office block assaulted by helicopter-borne Indian commandos just after dawn.

But nine hours later there was still incoming and outgoing fire and grenade explosions in the Jewish Centre and five bodies have since been recovered, thought to include the rabbi and his wife.

While the security forces rescued six hostages in the nearby Taj Mahal Palace hotel the siege of that building has dragged on despite a series of officials claims that the Islamic fundamentalist terrorists had been wiped-out.

*A second British official said that, although the India's Black Cat commandos have a fearsome reputation for efficient antiterrorist operations, their deployment was botched.*

*"They are supposed to set-up a command centre in complete control as their first priority," the official said. "Instead they arrived and went in guns blazing.*

*"It was blind. They didn't have maps of the hotels, yet there terrorists had done enough reconnaissance to use the service facilities to manoeuvre."*

*There was also criticism of a midnight announcement on the first day of the crisis by a cabinet minister that 200 commandos were deployed in the area within two hours.*

*The British official said: "The terrorist were forewarned by the government itself."*

*Even in the midst of the fighting, the security operation is riddled with holes. The Telegraph was able to gain access to the shattered lobby of the Oberoi hotel in the final throes of the fighting.

At least a dozen checkpoints made no security checks and the only official who did ask a question redirected the reporter to another part of the complex.

A masked marine commando said their efforts had been severely hampered by the numbers of people still inside the hotels when they moved in to flush out the militants.*

*He said his men had to feel their way through the hotel corridors and rooms in complete darkness and couldn't differentiate between dead bodies, the injured and people simply pressing themselves to the floor in terror.*

*The Special Forces are issued with specialised optical and acoustic sensors with the capability to identity and pinpoint objects and people in confined places.

However, sources within the Special Forces indicated that these were either not used or deployed ineffectively.*

*Operations also became confused and delayed because of the involvement of many different units including Marine Commandos, Navy's Special Forces, army quick reaction teams, the paramilitary Rapid Reaction Force and assorted provincial police commando teams.*

*A senior Special Forces source said: "There were far too many command centres with each one trying to best the other which led to confusion and delayed operations.

"There appears to have been a lack of detailed, precise planning and even the operations involving over 300 commandos took nearly 48 hours to achieve " In response to criticism that it had taken the commandos a precious 8 to 10 hours to deploy National security Guard chief J K Dutt said: "It will be wrong to say that we moved into the operational areas in Mumbai late."*

He said they had to make sure that each room in both besieged hotels was cleared before they secured the next tier. He added: "This proved time consuming."

Security sources claimed that the 10-12 member strike team, including a Somali national, underwent firearms and explosive training in Muzaffarabad, capital of Pakistan-administered Kashmir.

All were then discouraged from interacting with one another beyond what was necessary.

They travelled to the garrison town of Rawalpindi and then onwards by train to the eastern port city of Karachi where they boarded a chartered merchant ship bound for Bombay.

En route they hijacked another vessel, killed its owner and made their way to within four nautical miles of Bombay.

They then transferred onto three dinghies and made their way to separate locations on the city's coast, including the ancient Sassoon docks used by fishermen.


----------



## Vinod2070

You forgot to highlight the most key parts.


> *
> Security sources claimed that the 10-12 member strike team, including a Somali national, underwent firearms and explosive training in Muzaffarabad, capital of Pakistan-administered Kashmir.
> 
> All were then discouraged from interacting with one another beyond what was necessary.
> 
> They travelled to the garrison town of Rawalpindi and then onwards by train to the eastern port city of Karachi where they boarded a chartered merchant ship bound for Bombay.
> 
> En route they hijacked another vessel, killed its owner and made their way to within four nautical miles of Bombay.
> 
> They then transferred onto three dinghies and made their way to separate locations on the city's coast, including the ancient Sassoon docks used by fishermen.*





dr.umer said:


> *Mumbai attacks: India accused of bungling anti-terror operation​*
> 28 Nov 2008
> 
> Telegraph UK
> 
> India has faced international accusations of bungling its response to the terror attack.
> 
> *One senior British official said he was "surprised" by the Indian failure to regain control of the commercial capital almost two days after the attacks began. And a senior source within the Indian Special Forces was also critical of the uncoordinated and bureaucratic response which led to the operation lasting so long.*
> 
> *Israeli officials said India's refusal of its offer to send commandos had put the lives of a rabbi and his family in danger.*
> 
> They were held at Nariman House, the single story office block assaulted by helicopter-borne Indian commandos just after dawn.
> 
> But nine hours later there was still incoming and outgoing fire and grenade explosions in the Jewish Centre and five bodies have since been recovered, thought to include the rabbi and his wife.
> 
> While the security forces rescued six hostages in the nearby Taj Mahal Palace hotel the siege of that building has dragged on despite a series of officials claims that the Islamic fundamentalist terrorists had been wiped-out.
> 
> *A second British official said that, although the India's Black Cat commandos have a fearsome reputation for efficient antiterrorist operations, their deployment was botched.*
> 
> *"They are supposed to set-up a command centre in complete control as their first priority," the official said. "Instead they arrived and went in guns blazing.*
> 
> *"It was blind. They didn't have maps of the hotels, yet there terrorists had done enough reconnaissance to use the service facilities to manoeuvre."*
> 
> *There was also criticism of a midnight announcement on the first day of the crisis by a cabinet minister that 200 commandos were deployed in the area within two hours.*
> 
> *The British official said: "The terrorist were forewarned by the government itself."*
> 
> *Even in the midst of the fighting, the security operation is riddled with holes. The Telegraph was able to gain access to the shattered lobby of the Oberoi hotel in the final throes of the fighting.
> 
> At least a dozen checkpoints made no security checks and the only official who did ask a question redirected the reporter to another part of the complex.
> 
> A masked marine commando said their efforts had been severely hampered by the numbers of people still inside the hotels when they moved in to flush out the militants.*
> 
> *He said his men had to feel their way through the hotel corridors and rooms in complete darkness and couldn't differentiate between dead bodies, the injured and people simply pressing themselves to the floor in terror.*
> 
> *The Special Forces are issued with specialised optical and acoustic sensors with the capability to identity and pinpoint objects and people in confined places.
> 
> However, sources within the Special Forces indicated that these were either not used or deployed ineffectively.*
> 
> *Operations also became confused and delayed because of the involvement of many different units including Marine Commandos, Navy's Special Forces, army quick reaction teams, the paramilitary Rapid Reaction Force and assorted provincial police commando teams.*
> 
> *A senior Special Forces source said: "There were far too many command centres with each one trying to best the other which led to confusion and delayed operations.
> 
> "There appears to have been a lack of detailed, precise planning and even the operations involving over 300 commandos took nearly 48 hours to achieve " In response to criticism that it had taken the commandos a precious 8 to 10 hours to deploy National security Guard chief J K Dutt said: "It will be wrong to say that we moved into the operational areas in Mumbai late."*
> 
> He said they had to make sure that each room in both besieged hotels was cleared before they secured the next tier. He added: "This proved time consuming."
> 
> Security sources claimed that the 10-12 member strike team, including a Somali national, underwent firearms and explosive training in Muzaffarabad, capital of Pakistan-administered Kashmir.
> 
> All were then discouraged from interacting with one another beyond what was necessary.
> 
> They travelled to the garrison town of Rawalpindi and then onwards by train to the eastern port city of Karachi where they boarded a chartered merchant ship bound for Bombay.
> 
> En route they hijacked another vessel, killed its owner and made their way to within four nautical miles of Bombay.
> 
> They then transferred onto three dinghies and made their way to separate locations on the city's coast, including the ancient Sassoon docks used by fishermen.

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## Vinod2070

From another forum:

Reported by NDTV:

Based on interrogations of the arrested terrorist, the following have come to light:

- 40 terrorists in all, 29 Pakistanis and rest Bangladeshi's were trained at Muridke, the Lashkar's (LeT) training grounds. The operation was sponsored by LeT
- Group formed up in Karachi for 4 days
- One group came in by boat, the foot-soldiers; split up into two - one targeted South Mumbai while second targeted North Mumbai
- Apparently the coordinating team came in by air and conducted detailed recce, etc. There is also talk of a control centre being set up in a rented house but this is still not clear


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## nitesh

Guys you should have seen the NSG guys coming out shown live on Times Now. people were cheering them petting on there back. Good to see such scenes.


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## Flintlock

nitesh said:


> Guys you should have seen the NSG guys coming out shown live on Times Now. people were cheering them petting on there back. Good to see such scenes.



Yes, that was really awesome.

As they say, the NSG and Army/Police are the only heroes in this saga.

The people love them! The scene in which an army truck was greeted with loud cheering and garlands reminds me of the day Bangladesh was liberated or even further back the day Allied troops in WWII liberated a French city whose name I cannot recollect at the moment


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## Chanakya.10

*OUR MEN IN BLACK HEROES 

HATS OFF TO YOU GUYS>>>>>>>
*




























Love u GUYS................ BHARAT MATA KI......*JAI*....

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## XYON

nitesh said:


> Guys you should have seen the NSG guys coming out shown live on Times Now. people were cheering them petting on there back. Good to see such scenes.



It took your NSG 36 hours to eliminate 18 suspects out of 40 while they had killed 160 people! Still a few are holed up in the Taj and the rest have disappeared in Mumbai scaring the living crap out of Mumbites who are pigeonholed too scared to come out! Wow! I am already impressed at the level of training of your especial forces!


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## nitesh

Flintlock said:


> Yes, that was really awesome.
> 
> As they say, the NSG and Army/Police are the only heroes in this saga.
> 
> The people love them! The scene in which an army truck was greeted with loud cheering and garlands reminds me of the day Bangladesh was liberated or even further back the day Allied troops in WWII liberated a French city whose name I cannot recollect at the moment



Then you must have seen arnab almost shouting when gopinath munde cam e up to the scene. These politicians should not come here. ha ha ha. 

That guy almost choked when he was telling the supereme sacrifice of Major. Sandeep and havaldar gajender


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## Chanakya.10

imran khan said:


> were is provew sir without your media blame game even we coprate and send our respected ISI cheif for sheare inteligence but your fake media show this as pakisstan fail.and haaan we are siting on net from last 26 hour india will never pay our overtime we have so many more jobs then india you face these tarerrst guys and we have do some thing other also.





Sir INDIA is not forcing you to do overtime....

You are free to go home and sleep...........


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## Flintlock

*Murdke? Here's an old news story refering to Muridke:*
*
One killed, 26 injured as three blasts rock Muridke*
*5 November 1999**
The News International, Pakistan
By Special Correspondent
*
*MURIDKE: Three bombs exploded in quick succession near the gathering of Lashkar-e-Taiba,* killing one person and injuring at least 26 others, said police and eyewitnesses. The dead man was identified as Muhammad Nadeem who worked at the oven of the restaurant where one of the explosions took place.

DIG (Traffic) Qamar Altaf, DIG (Police Crime Range) Malik Muhammad Maqbool and DC Tajul Malook Qureshi rushed to the spot where panic had spread among the people. "We don't know whether India was involved, but we are investigating the possibility," Iqbal said.

Seven of the wounded were in critical condition. There was no immediate claim of responsibility and it wasn't clear whether the victims had been attending the conference.* The blasts took place about two kilometers from the annual gathering of the Lashkar-e-Taiba, residents said.*

The first bomb weighing 1 kg went off at 2:20 pm outside a small hotel in Madina Market where over two dozens people were taking tea, said eyewitnesses and police. They said at least 24 people were injured, seven of them seriously.

The second bomb weighing half kg went off near Narowal Bus Stop at 3:20 pm, injuring a policeman Muhammad Yaseen, posted there for keeping watch, and the third device also weighing half kg exploded near city's railway station at 3:50 pm, injuring Gulzar Begum, an aged woman.

Bomb disposal units found a fourth bomb which they defused, police said. Police also ordered residents off the street, while the search was conducted. Security at the site of the three-day affair has been tight, with dozens of men checking for possible explosives.

A bomb exploded last year, killing five people at a similar gathering which the organisers blamed on Indian security agents. *"This is a conspiracy against the freedom fighters," said conference leaders over loudspeakers on Thursday. *

One killed, 26 injured as three blasts rock Muridke

______________________________________________________________

This rather old news report indicated how deeply entrenched these terror groups were in Pakistani society in 1999 - the Police is talking about these groups as if they are normal civilian organizations when infact they were training terrorists!!

I am amazed that such a news story can even be written without the question being asked "WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE TRAINING TERRORISTS???"


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## su-47

india has blamed pakistan in the past, sometimes without proof, and sometimes we have been proven wrong (malegon blasts incident comes to mind). as an indian, i am ashamed of that.

but that doesnt mean we are wrong all the time. it is evident that the attackers are pakistanis and the attack was formulated in pakistan. so this time pakistan, and pakistanis, have to take the issue seriously. if terrorists continue using pakistan to launch attacks that threaten peace and stability in india, then we'll have no choice but to retaliate.

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## Chanakya.10

epool said:


> It took your NSG 36 hours to eliminate 18 suspects out of 40 while they had killed 160 people! Still a few are holed up in the Taj and the rest have disappeared in Mumbai scaring the living crap out of Mumbites who are pigeonholed too scared to come out! Wow! I am already impressed at the level of training of your especial forces!





100 people already were killed before the commondos were brought in.....

They safely brought 200 people from TAJ and Oberoi Hotels.........

Dont be too naive........Plz


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## nitesh

epool said:


> It took your NSG 36 hours to eliminate 18 suspects out of 40 while they had killed 160 people! Still a few are holed up in the Taj and the rest have disappeared in Mumbai scaring the living crap out of Mumbites who are pigeonholed too scared to come out! Wow! I am already impressed at the level of training of your especial forces!



Exactly they taken time because they have respect for life of the hostage and they are not out to destroy there own country like your army does in NWFP hint: use of artillary and air force. And hold they also surrender right. Oh also US comes and kills your countrey man as they wish.

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## Munir

Chanakya.10 said:


> *OUR MEN IN BLACK HEROES
> 
> HATS OFF TO YOU GUYS>>>>>>>
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Love u GUYS................ BHARAT MATA KI......*JAI*....



They look highly unprofessional to me. Honestly...


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## XYON

Chanakya.10 said:


> Now shut up and stick to the topic..........



This is an Indian Army Sniper carrying a Russian 7.62mm Draganov Sniper Rifle tied around him by a .......... wait for it.............. ''ROPE''???!!?????? Wow! real sophistication & professionalism! And the way the guy is climbing the aluminum rail seems more like his cat is lost on the roof!


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## Flintlock

Munir said:


> They look highly unprofessional to me. Honestly...


*

Those are Policemen, not Commandos - care to notice the obvious difference in uniform?*


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## jeypore

su-47 said:


> india has blamed pakistan in the past, sometimes without proof, and sometimes we have been proven wrong (malegon blasts incident comes to mind). as an indian, i am ashamed of that.
> 
> but that doesnt mean we are wrong all the time. it is evident that the attackers are pakistanis and the attack was formulated in pakistan. so this time pakistan, and pakistanis, have to take the issue seriously. if terrorists continue using pakistan to launch attacks that threaten peace and stability in india, then we'll have no choice but to retaliate.



you are excatly right su, This incedent is going to have a ripple affect that will change the future.


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## XYON

nitesh said:


> Exactly they taken time because they have respect for life of the hostage and they are not out to destroy there own country like your army does in NWFP hint: use of artillary and air force. And hold they also surrender right. Oh also US comes and kills your countrey man as they wish.



Life of Hostage????? How do you know that whether your own NSG may not have shot and killed the Jewish Hostages the way they are blowing up the buildings with explosives!!! Such large explosions are not grenade based, they are either semtex or TNT based whihc is stuff carried normally by special forces for breaching!

And secondly, drop you holier-tan-thou attitude buddy! Your self-righteous BS smells more that your ignorant attitude.

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## Munir

Flintlock said:


> *
> 
> Those are Policemen, not Commandos - care to notice the obvious difference in uniform?*



It took a lot of time to get there. Lots of killed people. Looking at the pics I have seen more prefessional people...

Look how 2 people guard a window, one sits on the bed (looks like that) and the person living there is behind his bed... O the other part where a person walks aroun with his gun... Or the one that shoots without aiming... If he hits something with his mp5 then he should be the next Indian president.

C'mon, If these pics show you a professional force then I have to say those terrorist have shown real impressive show. Keeping the area in their hands while wounded...


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## Flintlock




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## dr.umer

*Mumbai attacks: domestic Indian terrorism with a global twist​*
27 Nov 2008

Guardian UK

The claim of responsibility came from a group no one had heard of before, the Deccan Mujahideen. The Deccan plateau is a huge area of central and southern India, and mujahideen is the Arab word for Islamic holy warriors.

*The name suggests a domestic agenda with foreign inspiration. The claim may of course be bogus, or the name could be a cover for another group, but it looks a fair guess at this early stage that this represents home-grown terrorism with an imported twist.*

*India is one of the principal targets of terrorism. According to the US state department, 2,300 people died in terrorist attacks in the country during the course of 2007. There are Maoist groups in the east and centre and nationalists in the north-east.*

In this case it looks like Islamist extremism, for which Mumbai has been a particular target. More than 250 people were killed there in a series of 13 bomb blasts in 1993 blamed on Muslim militants. Two years ago more than 200 people were killed by bomb attacks on trains and railway stations. The police charged about 30 suspects belonging to a Pakistan-based group called Lashkar-i-Taiba and a northern group called Students Islamic Movement of India.

*The violence is fuelled by longstanding ethnic tensions that were inflamed by riots in Gujarat State near Mumbai six years ago. Nearly 2,000 people were killed, most of them Muslims. The most serious attacks followed those riots.*

But there is clearly something different about this attack. It has relied not on bombs, but a coordinated assault by men with rifles who seem to have arrived at some of their targets by boat. They appear to be on a suicide mission. In at least one instance they singled out Britons and Americans, and one of their targets was a Orthodox Jewish centre. Clearly there is outside influence on their strategy and ideology.

It is too early to say whether there is an al-Qaida connection, and such links can take many forms, from active training and assistance in planning and logistics to simple inspiration from the internet.

*What is likely is that the attacks will get blamed on Pakistan and its Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI), as have previous Islamist atrocities. US counter-terrorism officials believe some ISI members played a role in an attack this year on the Indian embassy in Afghanistan.*

Mumbai may be the latest of many outrages that have their roots in recent Indian history  but the targeting of westerners suggests this is becoming globalised, intertwined with a brand of violent extremism emanating from Pakistan and Afghanistan


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## XYON

indiapakistanfriendship said:


> You see a lot of Hollywood movies don't you..



No I do not see Hollywood movies a lot!

I actually know a few things more than you do about Special Forces & their training programs all over the world than you do! That's all!

And the more I see the Indian comments praising the Especial Forces NSG, the more I am amused at the internal ignorance whihc you Indians display on military and spec ops code!


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## Flintlock

Munir said:


> It took a lot of time to get there. Lots of killed people. Looking at the pics I have seen more prefessional people...
> 
> Look how 2 people guard a window, one sits on the bed (looks like that) and the person living there is behind his bed... O the other part where a person walks aroun with his gun... Or the one that shoots without aiming... If he hits something with his mp5 then he should be the next Indian president.
> 
> C'mon, If these pics show you a professional force then I have to say those terrorist have shown real impressive show. Keeping the area in their hands while wounded...



Well, I have no professional knowledge about commando tactics, so I cannot comment.

However, I do have full faith in their training and their abilities.

Their deployment was a Political decision, so you cannot blame them for being deployed late.


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## XYON

Flintlock said:


> Well, I have no professional knowledge about commando tactics, so I cannot comment.
> 
> However, I do have full faith in their training and their abilities.



Thanks for proving my point!

However, trust me when I say this my friend! Your spec ops are good but not that good when we talk about countries such as India, Pakistan etc etc!


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## dr.umer

*The Investigation: India's nightmare: were the killers home-grown?​*






28 Nov 2008

*PM blames 'external' forces, but experts play down al-Qa'ida link​*
By Anne Penketh, Diplomatic Editor

Two questions hang over the massacres, for which Indian security forces appear to have been completely unprepared: who did it, and why?

*Security analysts said yesterday that, while the involvement of al-Qa'ida could not be ruled out after foreigners were targeted for the first time in a major Indian attack, initial suspicions focus on home-grown Islamic militant groups which have become a major concern for authorities.* 

*Although the Indian Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh, blamed "external linkages" and appeared to point the finger of blame at Pakistan, it was not clear last night whether he was repeating India's familiar accusations against its neighbour in the wake of every major terror attack or if he had firm evidence following the arrest of nine suspects involved in the shootings. 

The festering sore of Kashmir, over which Pakistan and India have fought two wars, is ever present. One of the militants holed up in the Jewish centre in Mumbai contacted Indian television to ask: "Are you aware how many people have been killed in Kashmir? Are you aware how your army has killed Muslims? Are you aware how many of them have been killed in Kashmir this week?" He was said to be speaking Urdu with a Kashmiri accent.*

Proof of a Kashmiri connection is likely to lead to rising tension in the subcontinent as these groups not only have ties with groups such as al-Qa'ida but also the Pakistani intelligence service, ISI. "There are serious concerns in India about the support of the ISI for militant Islamic groups," said a security analyst, Garry Hindle.

The Mumbai attacks were claimed by a previously unknown group, the Deccan Mujahedin, which is calling for the release of jailed Islamic militants. "At first glance, it looks like an offshoot of the Indian Mujahedin which itself arose out of the student Islamic movement," said Nigel Inkster, a senior analyst with the International Institute for Strategic Studies who is a former assistant director of MI6. 

"We've been worried about the indigenisation of Islamist extremism in India," Mr Inkster added, referring to the new splinter groups springing up inside the country which are distinct from militant organisations imported from outside and accused of being sponsored by Pakistan.

Security specialists pointed out that targeting of foreigners and co-ordinated plans could be an indication of external activity. But they remained cautious about linking the shootings to the core al-Qa'ida leadership. "It can't be ruled out," said Mr Inkster. "There had been expectations of an al-Qa'ida 'spectacular' during the transition period in America, which has not happened. The CIA has been putting pressure on the core al-Qai'da leadership in Pakistan." US drones have been used there to bomb suspected militant leaders in tribal areas. But why would Islamic militants target Westerners in India? "Because it would be easier than in the US or Europe," he said.

The latest attack seems to be part of a pattern in which militants focus on cities powering the country's growth, such as Mumbai  where almost 200 people were killed in train bombings in 2006  Bangalore and Delhi.

Following an unprecedented nuclear deal struck between Washington and Delhi, "Obviously India is a de facto ally of the US," said Mr Inkster. The attack "was designed to knock the government off balance and disrupt progress."

Mr Hindle, an analyst with the Royal United Services Institute, said the shootings may have been intended to disrupt the US-Indian relationship. Judging by the security response, Indian intelligence had no warning of the arrival of the militants by sea.

It remains a mystery why the head of India's counter-terrorism squad, Hemant Karkare, led the response on the ground. Although he was wearing a bullet-proof vest, the 54-year-old officer, one of the leading lights in the security forces who took over as counter-terrorism chief less than a year ago, was shot dead in a firefight.

Before his death, Mr Karkare was praised for a breakthrough in an investigation into a blast outside a mosque in Malegaon which led to the arrest of a serving army officer linked to Hindu extremists. Only last weekend Prime Minister Singh called for the creation of a special task force to come up with a 100-day plan to fight terrorism. Three days later, the terrorists struck.

Survivor's story: Businessman, Gulam Noon

"I looked through the peephole and saw a man with an AK47 in the corridor. Amaz-ingly when I called the front desk, the duty manager answered. He told me to jam the door. After several hours a fireman took us down in a crane. The general manager of the hotel was waiting with a bottle of water. The staff were amazing, they stayed all night, risking their lives."

In the frame: The main suspects

Deccan Mujahedin

Previously unknown group claimed responsibility for the attacks, but this is almost certainly a name of convenience for another organisation with the capacity to carry out such a deadly and well co-ordinated assault. Security analysts dismiss the notion that a new and unnoticed batch of militants would have been responsible.

Indian Mujahedin

Formed from the banned Students' Islamic Movement of India (Simi). Members have received training and funding in Pakistan and have close contacts with Kashmiri militants. Claimed responsibility for a wave of bombings in Uttar Pradesh in November 2007. Indian authorities blame the group for the train bombings two years ago that killed 187 people. In May, the group made a specific threat to attack tourist sites in India unless the government stopped supporting the US.

Lashkar-e-Taiba

Kashmiri separatist group which has denied involvement but remains a suspect. Elements of Pakistani security forces have links with the organisation, which is also believed to have links with al-Qa'ida. Thought to be responsible for bomb attacks on markets in Delhi that killed more than 60 people in 2005, as well as an assault on India's parliament in 2001 that brought India and Pakistan to the brink of war. 

Al-Qa'ida

All the recent indications point to the fact that al-Qa'ida does not have a structured command and control and that most of these attacks have been carried out by local groups, some of whom say they had been inspired by al-Qa'ida.

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## Skywalker

jeypore said:


> you are excatly right su, This incedent is going to have a ripple affect that will change the future.



You are not USA and we are not Afghanistan, thats the best for the time being I can answer you. Whoever planned this must have contacts with the insiders. 

Only a non professional and stupid can leave traces just like when they found a passport in US after WTC collapse. What a joke. The synergy of RAW/Mossad/CIA is exposing its sinister plans against Pakistan.

A so called mighty Navy couldnt stop these terrorists entering via sea and then suddenly they found everything. Wow I dunno wether I should start laughing or crying. Yes unfortunatly I will cry for those innocent people killed for nothing but would also laugh as future super power(must be in dreams) have so many loop holes.


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## dr.umer

*Clues suggest homegrown terrorists in India attack - Associated Press​*
LONDON (AP)  The attack on India's financial capital bears all the trademarks of al-Qaida  simultaneous assaults meant to kill scores of Westerners in iconic buildings  but clues so far point to homegrown Indian terrorists, global intelligence officials said Thursday.

Spy agencies around the world were caught off guard by the deadly attack, in which gunmen sprayed crowds with bullets, torched landmark hotels and took dozens of hostages.

"We have been actively monitoring plots in Britain and abroad and there was nothing to indicate something like this was about to happen," a British security official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of his work.

Britain is the former colonial power in India and Pakistan and closely monitors terrorist suspects in those countries.

In some ways, the attack illustrated just how fluid terror tactics have become since Sept. 11  and how the threat has become more global. Al-Qaida's leaders on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border still provide inspiration but groups are becoming increasingly local.

The group that claimed responsibility, Deccan Mujahideen, was unknown to global security officials. The name suggested the group was Indian.

One of the suspects reportedly called an Indian television station, speaking the main Pakistani language of Urdu, to demand the return of Muslim lands. That was a reference to Kashmir, territory claimed by both India and Pakistan.

But Ajai Sahni, head of the New Delhi-based Institute for Conflict Management who has close ties to India's police and intelligence, said the attack was a departure from past assaults waged over Kashmir. Other such attacks had targeted Indian legislators, not Westerners.

*Security officials said it was too soon to make a connection to Pakistan.*

"It would be premature ... to reach any hard-and-fast conclusions on who may be responsible for the attacks, but some of what we're seeing is reminiscent of past terrorist operations undertaken by groups such as Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed," a U.S. counterterrorism official said on condition of anonymity, referring to Pakistani militant groups linked to al-Qaida who have fought Indian troops in Kashmir.

Another British security official told the AP on condition of anonymity that the attack doesn't look to have been directed by al-Qaida's core leadership, which has been weakened by the deaths of several leaders and key operatives in recent months.

Al-Qaida's core leadership is believed to be fewer than 100 people now, said Rohan Gunaratna, author of "Inside Al-Qaida" and a terrorism expert at the International Center for Political Violence and Terrorism Research in Singapore.

The British security official said it appeared the attack was inspired by Islamic extremist ideology and al-Qaida propaganda popular among radicalized youths. Many of the attackers in the Mumbai assault were young.

Gunaratna said he believed the group that carried out Wednesday's attack was the Indian Mujahideen, responsible for past attacks in Mumbai.

The word "Deccan" refers to a plateau in southern India. "Mujahideen" refers to holy warriors.

"The earlier generation of terrorist groups in India were mostly linked to Pakistan," Gunaratna told the AP. "But today we are seeing a dramatic change. They are almost all homegrown groups. ... They are very angry and firmly believe that India is killing Muslims and attacking Islam."

British-based Jane's Information Group said it thought the attackers could be Indian but that taking hostages suggested a wider anti-Western agenda.

"Until now, terrorist attacks in India have targeted civilians, often in busy market or commercial areas, and in communally sensitive areas with the intention to foment unrest between Hindu and Muslim communities," said Urmila Venugopalan, Jane's South Asia analyst.

"This stands in contrast to the national issues that appeared to motivate Indian Mujahideen," Venugopalan said.

Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh blamed "external forces" but stopped short of blaming Pakistan. Both are nuclear-armed countries.

In September, a massive suicide truck bomb devastated the Marriott Hotel in the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, killing at least 54 people, including three Americans and the Czech ambassador.

"This type of terrorism is spreading, through Pakistan and now India, but we were all surprised by such a large-scale attack like this," said Wajid Hassan, Pakistan's High Commissioner in London. "This is no coincidence that this type of attack happened so soon after the bombing of the Marriott Hotel. People from all countries are being paid to fight this al-Qaida war. This is a war that goes beyond any nationality."

Sahni, however, said "very preliminary investigations and intelligence information would suggest that some groups based in Pakistan are the most likely.

"If there is Indian participation, it's most likely to be Students' Islamic Movement of India," he said, referring to a radical student group banned in India in 2001.

Indian intelligence officials were also investigating whether Mumbai's criminal underworld could be involved.

"It's a possibility," Sahni said. "When we say Mumbai underworld we're talking of Dawood Ibrahim."

Ibrahim is one of India's most wanted men and also the alleged mastermind behind bombings in Mumbai in 1993 that killed 257 people. He has reportedly fled Mumbai, and police now believe he lives in Pakistan. Pakistani officials have denied this.


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## haviZsultan

> *Canadian hostage freed from Mumbai hotel*
> 
> MUMBAI -- A Canadian woman freed from a Mumbai hotel said she was "fine" and on her way to the airport after Indian commandos seized the building from armed Islamic terrorists Friday.
> 
> Alison Nankivell was among five Canadians freed from the Oberoi-Trident Hotel after it had been stormed by terrorists 36 hours earlier as part of co-ordinated and bloody attacks against several targets in India's financial capital that left as many as 140 dead, including one Canadian. The name of the dead Canadian has not been released.
> 
> Nankivell, speaking by cellphone with Canwest News Service, praised the work of Canadian officials and asked for privacy.
> 
> "I really don't have any comment. I am trying to get back to my home. Everything is fine. We all went through it," said Nankivell, who said she was on the way to the airport. "Everything is fine. We had a good experience working with the (Canadian) consulate."
> 
> Nankivell said she was originally from Toronto, with a home in Ottawa, and that she was currently posted overseas.
> 
> The prefix of her cellphone number is used in Beijing, China.
> 
> According to an August news release from Export Development Canada, an Alison Nankivell was named to the posting of senior equity manager in Beijing.
> 
> Nankivell's name was on a list of freed hostages from the Oberoi-Trident hotel given to local Indian media by authorities. Indian reporter Heena Kumawat, with television station IBN 7, read the list over the telephone to Canwest News Service.
> 
> Jennifer Dean Brooy, from eastern Ontario, was also on the list and her cellphone number had an Ottawa prefix. It rang through to voice mail.
> 
> On Friday, Global News obtained a partial list of Canadians who were either currently being held hostage, or had been held in recent days.
> 
> Included in that were Damon Sawchuk and Marsha Maxwell, both from the Toronto area, and Vernon Lyle Simonson of De Winton, Alta.
> 
> A fourth person, Karim Sharif, was identified as a Canadian, but was in India on an American passport. His address was listed as New York City.
> 
> Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon issued separate statements Friday morning saying that one Canadian had been killed, while five trapped in hotels had been freed. Twenty registered Canadians were known to be in Mumbai at the time of the terrorist attacks. Cannon said Friday all have been accounted for.
> 
> Friday, Indian commandos stormed a Jewish centre in Mumbai killing two terrorists, but failed to save five hostages after two days of bloodshed that have created fresh tensions with old foe Pakistan.
> 
> And a lone terrorist continued to hold out at the luxury Taj hotel in Mumbai, as explosions and gunfire erupting regularly while he avoided commandos through the maze of corridors and rooms. The head of one commando unit flushing out terrorists at the five-star Taj said he had seen 12 to 15 bodies in one room in the hotel.
> 
> Commandos took control of the Trident-Oberoi hotel on Friday, killing the last two terrorists at the site. Mumbai police chief Hassan Ghafoor said 24 bodies were found in the building. More than 140 guests were freed earlier in the day.
> 
> The commandos found money, ammunition and an identity card from Mauritius that they suspected belonged to the terrorists, the commander -- his face disguised by a black scarf and sunglasses -- told a news conference.
> 
> One of the terrorists arrested in Mumbai was a Pakistani national, the interior minister of Maharashtra state, R.R. Patil, told reporters.
> 
> At least two Canadians were injured in the attacks. Cannon said in a statement that one of the Canadians had suffered serious injuries and was in stable condition in intensive care. The other Canadian had been released from the hospital. Consular officials visited the seriously injured Canadian and were in contact with his family, said Cannon.
> 
> Michael Rudder, of Montreal, was shot three times while in the restaurant area of Mumbai's luxury Oberoi-Trident Hotel, said Bobbie Garvey, vice-president of the Synchronicity Foundation, a U.S. based meditation group.
> 
> "He's had surgery and he's doing well," Garvey said Thursday. "He's stable - not enough to fly home yet -- but he's stable."
> 
> Helen Connolly, a Toronto-based yoga instructor, was also grazed by a bullet in the attack, but Garvey said she was quickly released from hospital, is staying with a host family and is doing well.
> 
> The two Canadians were travelling in the area with the meditation group and were among the victims shot by terrorists in Mumbai as explosions continued to rock the embattled city Thursday.
> 
> "They went with our spiritual director on a pilgrimage to India, and wound up in the middle of this terrorist attack," said Garvey from his organization's base in Faber, Va.
> 
> Indian commandos fought room-to-room battles with the Islamic terrorists inside the two luxury hotels Thursday to save people trapped or taken hostage during the bloody siege.
> 
> Prime Minister Stephen Harper condemned what he called "the despicable and cowardly attacks in Mumbai, India."
> 
> "The government of Canada is working closely with Indian authorities to find and assist any Canadians and their families who might be affected by these attacks," Harper said in a statement released Thursday. "Our consular staff in Ottawa and on the ground in Mumbai are working tirelessly to this end."
> 
> The Department of Foreign Affairs also issued a travel warning for Mumbai, saying Canadians should avoid non-essential travel.
> 
> *A previously little-known terror organization calling itself the Deccan Mujahedeen has sent an e-mail to news organizations claiming responsibility for the attacks.*
> 
> Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said the terrorists had come from "outside the country," while the military official leading the operation to flush them out, Maj.-Gen. R.K. Hooda, said they were from archrival Pakistan.
> 
> The Press Trust of India said one Pakistani man had been detained, although Pakistan's government fiercely denied any involvement.
> 
> Three of the terrorists have confessed they are members of the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba group, an Indian newspaper reported.
> 
> Lashkar-e-Taiba, one of the largest Islamist terror groups in South Asia, denied on Thursday that it had any role in the attacks.
> 
> One of the terrorists was a resident of Faridkot in Pakistan's Punjab province, the Hindu said, citing unidentified police investigators.
> 
> "Based on the interrogation of the suspects, the investigators believe that one or more groups of Lashkar operatives left Karachi in a merchant ship early on Wednesday," the newspaper said.
> 
> It said the group came ashore at Mumbai on a small boat and then split up into small teams to attack multiple locations.
> 
> The Mumbai attacks bear some hallmarks of al-Qaida but it is too early to say if the network was behind the deadly assaults, British Foreign Secretary David Miliband said Thursday.
> 
> Mumbai, formerly known as Bombay, is a major metropolitan centre on the west coast of India near the Arabian Sea.
> 
> - With files from Global National and Reuters



Deccan mujahideen has taken responsibility for the attack. Will you still keep blaming us? Aur kuch bhi kar liya karo yaar... 

I think muslims are about to rise up in absolute rebellion against India... :p
Dont you think? Indians are actually trying to hide this truth that the Indians are murdering and butchering innocent muslims all across India because of which local militant groups many of them who lose their families rise up and fight Indian rule.


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## dr.umer

*Arrested Mumbai gunmen 'of British descent'​*
28 Nov 2008
The Independent UK

Two gunmen arrested after the Mumbai massacre were of British descent, the country's chief minister said today. 

UK authorities played down reports that the terrorists included Britons as violence in the city continued for a third day. 

Gordon Brown said there was no mention of any of the terrorists being linked with Britain during a conversation with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. 

He said: "At no point has the Prime Minister of India suggested to me that there is evidence at this stage of any terrorist of British origins but obviously these are huge investigations that are being done and I think it will be premature to draw any conclusions at all. 

"We remain steadfast and firm standing with India and all other countries against any form of terrorist activity and we will be vigilant in both helping the Indian authorities and in making sure that in every part of the world we support those who are fighting terrorism." 

But Indian Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh claims two British-born Pakistanis were among eight gunmen arrested by Indian authorities, according to Associated Press reports. 

Indian authorities said Mumbai would soon be back under their full control but confirmed the number of foreigners known to be killed in the attacks had risen to eight. 

At least 143 people - including a wealthy British businessman - were left dead in the wave of terror that swept India's financial capital. 

Earlier a German MEP caught up in the attacks said she had heard that British nationals were among the terrorists, as reports of the death toll hit 143, including eight foreign nationals. 

Erika Mann was part of a trade delegation of MEPs from Brussels staying at the Taj Hotel. 

Before leaving the city on a flight to London, she said she had escaped through an underground passage in the hotel. 

*She added: "The attacks appear to have a European dimension. We have heard from journalists and other people we were with that English citizens took part in the attacks and were killed in the hotel. *

"This information is not confirmed, however. We were told that they came in by boat." 

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said UK authorities had "no knowledge" of any British links with the massacre. 

She told reporters: "We will do anything we can to help Indian authorities through what is obviously a very difficult time." 

Ms Smith added: "We will do what is necessary. At the moment the priority is to support the immediate needs. 

"We will work with the Indians to see what we can learn from the events." 

Ms Mann, a member of the Socialist group in the European Parliament, said hotel staff helped steer her towards a route away from the hotel as gunmen burst in and began firing. 

"The terrorists started shooting behind us. When we got to the street I stopped a car and by luck it belonged to some Indian journalists. The Indian people were wonderful in their support." 

She said a new approach was now needed to tackle global terrorism: "These attacks have taught us all a difficult lesson," she said. 

"We cannot continue just with local and regional structures to fight terrorism when we face an enemy that is organised on a global scale. Global terrorism of the sort we experienced in Mumbai involves a wide range of people, from young people influenced by fundamentalism to business people. 

"This cannot be left as a problem for India alone. The ordinary people are as fed up as anyone else." 

Meanwhile, a top Indian official says eight foreigners are known to have been killed so far in the Mumbai attacks and 22 more have been injured. 

Top security official M.L. Kumawat says the dead include three Germans, and one person each from Japan, Canada and Australia. The nationalities of two more are unknown. 

The injured include five from Britain, three Germans, two Americans, two from Oman and one each from Norway, Spain, Canada, Finland, Philippines, Australia, Italy and China. Two more were unknown. 

24 more bodies were found today, taking the death toll to 143. 

*Even after claims by Indian authorities that the situation was under control, explosions were still being heard in central Mumbai. *

Prime Minister Gordon Brown said that as far as the Government was aware, there were no British hostages still being held in the Indian financial capital. 

And he said ministers were determined to do what they could to help the Indian authorities dealing with the attacks. 

"It is clear that we have got to help the Indian government deal with this terrorist incident and we have sent people from the Metropolitan Police to help," he said. 

"This is an atrocious outbreak of violence planned in advance and I think we have got to look at how international action against terrorism can be improved over the next period of time." 

Mr Brown said the British High Commissioner to India, Sir Richard Stagg, was trying to establish how many UK nationals had been injured in the attacks. 

He said his thoughts were with those who had died, including the British businessman Andreas Liveras. 

"Of course, we are mourning the death of a British citizen who died and there are a number of British citizens who are injured," he said. 

"As the High Commissioner visits different hospitals in the Mumbai area, he is trying to discover the degree to which people are ill and injured." 

Mr Liveras, the founder of a luxury yacht business who was in his 70s, was pronounced dead on arrival at St George's Hospital in the city. 

External affairs minister Pranab Mukherjee said "elements in Pakistan" were behind the Mumbai terror attacks. 

He said: "According to preliminary information, some elements in Pakistan are responsible for Mumbai terror attacks. 

*"Proof cannot be disclosed at this time." *

Hundreds were injured when the suspected Islamic militants attacked 10 sites in Mumbai. 

Briton Mark Abell, whose home town was not known, was rescued at the Oberoi today. 

He said: "I'm going home, I'm going to see my wife." 

Mr Abell said he locked himself in his room during the siege. 

He added: "These people here have been fantastic, the Indian authorities, the hotel staff. I think they are a great advertisement for their country." 

Another man, who said he was British but would not give his name, said: "I didn't see anything. I just heard loud blasts. 

"I was in my room. I didn't get out until an hour ago." 

Gunmen launched co-ordinated attacks on targets in central Mumbai, including the two hotels and the city's packed railway station, on Wednesday. 

Heavy gunfire continued today as commandos were dropped by helicopter on to the roof of a Jewish centre where at least 10 hostages were being held. 

The commando attack on the centre run by the ultra-orthodox Jewish outreach group Chabad Lubavitch was punctuated by gunshots and explosions from within the building as forces cleared it floor by floor. 

Security officials insisted their operations were almost over. 

But within an hour of the statement two loud explosions were heard at the luxury Taj Mahal hotel, which authorities insisted last night was cleared of gunmen. 

British citizen Nicole Griffen said she was rescued by Indian special forces from the Taj Mahal. 

She told the BBC's Radio 5 Live: "They entered and looked through our passports and scouted around to see if there were (anyone) harbouring terrorists or attackers and then we were promptly told where to go by the central stairway and again we were asked to wait with other guests while they checked other floors and checked other rooms and we all congregated into one space where they could protect us centrally." 

More than seven other Britons were among the injured, it was believed. 

Retired teachers Diane and Michael Murphy, who live near Hexham, Northumberland, were on holiday in India and had only been in Mumbai for one day when the terrorists struck. 

A group calling itself Deccan Mujahideen has claimed responsibility for the attacks. 

*But experts said they had never heard of the organisation and suggested that the radical Students Islamic Movement of India (Simi) might have been behind the massacre. 

Prime Minister Singh blamed "external forces" for the violence - a phrase sometimes used to refer to Pakistani militants, whom Indian authorities often blame for attacks. *


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## haviZsultan

Skywalker said:


> You are not USA and we are not Afghanistan, thats the best for the time being I can answer you. Whoever planned this must have contacts with the insiders.
> 
> Only a non professional and stupid can leave traces just like when they found a passport in US after WTC collapse. What a joke. The synergy of RAW/Mossad/CIA is exposing its sinister plans against Pakistan.
> 
> A so called mighty Navy couldnt stop these terrorists entering via sea and then suddenly they found everything. Wow I dunno wether I should start laughing or crying. Yes unfortunatly I will cry for those innocent people killed for nothing but would also laugh as future super power(must be in dreams) have so many loop holes.



There was no boat... Its all a game. They just arrested innocent Pakistani who went for mumbai to visit thats all. 

Indian muslims are just rising up to attrocities committed by the Indian nation. ;0


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## Awesome

Still someone is holed up at the Taj!

Atankvaadi nahi, jese khatmal ho. Confirm hokay nikaltay hi nahi


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## Awesome

Chanakya.10 said:


> I hope BJP wins, the congress govt. is too inept to deal with this situation............


Yeah but 6 months from now, situation can be different.


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## dr.umer

*Is India reaping a harvest of hatred sown by Indians? We have seen it all before-a Sri Lankan perspective​*
November 28, 2008 

As I write this, Indian security forces are still fighting terrorists in Mumbai, the financial capital of India and centre of its glamorous film industry. Over a hundred people are dead, gunned down by young men in a crazed Columbine style shooting of unarmed civilians. A previously unknown group called the Deccan Mujahedeen have claimed responsibility. With the choice of this name-the Deccan valley being a large plateau in India-these guys are sending a clear signal: they are sons of Mother India. And they are not alone: a string of bomb blasts over the last year in Delhi, Ahmadabad, Bangalore, Jaipur, and Uttar Pradesh was claimed by another home-grown group calling themselves the Indian Mujahedeen.

India is the largest democracy in the world. Theyve got several hundred languages, theyve got every major world religion in residence and originated four of them; they are multi-cultural and multi-ethnic, with a male Prime Minister of the minority Sikh religion and a female President. This is a kaleidoscope of people, all very proud of their individual cultures, and yet also very proud that they are one nation under one flag. This is the land held up as proof that no matter how large, how populated, and how diverse a country may be, democracy works for everyone; democracy protects everyone. So what the hell is going wrong now?

One of the terrorists spreading carnage at the Oberoi Hotel told Indian television via telephone: Muslims in India should not be persecuted. We love this as our country but when our mothers and sisters were being killed, where was everybody? Release all the mujahedeens, and Muslims living in India should not be troubled. What is he going on about?

In 2002, over two thousand Muslims were massacred in the state of Gujarat. It was called a spontaneous communal riot, but the weight of evidence suggests that it was a premeditated attack against the Muslims organized by local authorities and politicians. The attack was particularly severe against women, with organized rape and mutilation of women and female children-when our mothers and sisters were being killed, where was everybody?

The violence in Gujarat bares many resemblances to the landmark event in our own battle against terrorism: the 1983 anti-Tamil riot. It too was called a spontaneous communal riot, but as with Gujarat the weight of evidence suggested premeditated action by the then government. It is alleged that the government minister Mr Cyril Matthew organized gangs made up of the Jathika Sevaka Sangamaya to systematically target Tamil houses and businesses using voter lists which they had conveniently got access to. In Gujarat too, voter lists identified the Muslims and the chief minister Narendra Modi was accused of instigating and encouraging the attacks, and of being wilfully negligent in providing relief to the victims. The 1983 anti-Tamil riot swelled the ranks of militant groups in Sri Lanka with youth determined to exact revenge, and evidently the Gujarat riot has had the same effect in India.

Our response to 1983 was to ignore it and pretend that it was an isolated and spontaneous incident, rather than accept that there were deep-seated injustices perpetrated against the minority even prior to 1983. India did the same: investigations were sabotaged, no one was held accountable. Few saw the broader context of the problem: the ever-simmering violence in Kashmir, and the fact that the Indian economy-laudable though it is-had left out many Indians, many of whom felt that they had been systematically neglected because of their minority status.

To see what is happening in India today is to look in the rear view mirror of what we did wrong in Sri Lanka. When we suffered terrorist attacks, we blamed it on foreign interference, namely India. India does the same today: the Prime Minister in a televised message blamed a group based outside the country. Both countries have failed to realize that the root of the problem is not outside our shores; the problem lies within. Messages from the Indian public are scrolled continuously on NDTV, most of them blaming the government for inadequate security and calling for a severe crackdown on terrorism (as if they werent already trying all this time). Not one message asked the question: what drove these Indians to do this to other Indians?

In the interests of combating terrorism, it wont be long before anti-terrorist squads ask Indians with Muslim names questions like: what are you doing out so late? Do you have a legitimate reason for walking near that hotel? How can you prove that you live in this city? If youre not from here, what reason do you have for being in this city? It wont be long before Indian Muslims are arrested simply for being Muslims, and asked to prove that they are not terrorists. As for the public, the great majority will applaud these actions. Theyll say it is unfortunate, but it is necessary. We know this because we have seen it all before.

One of the police officers killed by the terrorists in Mumbai was an encounter specialist. This is a euphemism for government assassins who shoot dead alleged gangsters and terrorists without bothering to collect evidence. Our equivalent would be the ubiquitous white vans that make suspected terrorists mysteriously disappear and keeps adding to the tally of bodies that wash ashore or turn up in ditches. How does the public know they really are terrorists? We know, and thats all that matters-who needs evidence anyway? In India these encounter specialists are glorified by the media and cinema as heroes. Murderer equals hero. Isnt that the same logic used by terrorists?

So heres a word of advice from a Sri Lankan to our big neighbour. Dont go down the path we have taken. Dont be tempted to sacrifice the freedom of another for your own safety. Be smarter than us. Look within and find the disease that is causing this fever called terrorism. For now, your terrorists seem to be ad hoc groups of lethal young men. With every attack in your country a new terrorist group with a new label takes credit. Thats how it starts. The day will come when a determined and motivated leader manages to coalesce the many fingers of extremism into a hard-hitting fist, with an ideology as compelling as it is evil. When that happens, you will pay a price in blood and sorrow for generations to come. We know this because we have seen it all before.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> *Evidence with Indian Agencies:*
> 
> -Captured terrorist says 40 terrorists part of the operation.
> 
> -29 Pakistani and rest Bangladeshi
> 
> -20 were living in Mumbai a week before the attack
> 
> -Rest came by sea - bringing arms and ammunition
> 
> -The 20 living in Mumbai came to know the innards of the Taj and Oberoi and planned the attack.
> 
> -Abu Ismail from Faridkot Pakistan was interrogated.
> 
> -Group assembled in Lashkar base in Pakistan.
> 
> -The terrorists were well trained to handle sophisticated weapons
> 
> -Maritime security is lax
> 
> -Traveling time between Karachi and Mumbai is 4 hours
> 
> -They traveled upto a certain place by sea and then rowed to shore using rubber boats.


Errr that is the allegation. With what you prove all that, will be the evidence.


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## Awesome

&#8220;Muslims in India should not be persecuted. We love this as our country but when our mothers and sisters were being killed, where was everybody? Release all the mujahedeens, and Muslims living in India should not be troubled.&#8221;
-- Mumbai attacker, Imran.


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## jeypore

Skywalker said:


> but would also laugh as future super power(must be in dreams) have so many loop holes.




Well you should also cry for this dream also.


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## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> Errr that is the allegation. With what you prove all that, will be the evidence.



You seem to be demanding a lot more neutrality from me than what you write in your own posts.


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## Imran Khan

*Situation Update 

Heavy firing, explosions at Taj 
At Nariman: No one found alive 
At Oberoi: Yes Bank chairman found dead 
At Taj: Bodies brought out of back entrance*


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## Skywalker

*ISI cheif has been instructed to go to India* and help them out in an ongoing investigations. For a moment I thought what a blunder Zardari is making and how stupid he is to send the country's spy chief' but after giving some thoughts I realized that its a good oppertunity for him to take all the proves of Indian Involvement in FATA and balouchistan.

He can talk to them on give n take basis like handing over barhamdagh bugti and stop poking their noses in our country. But I know their masters (CIA/MOssad) wont allow them to do that.


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## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> Muslims in India should not be persecuted. We love this as our country but when our mothers and sisters were being killed, where was everybody? Release all the mujahedeens, and Muslims living in India should not be troubled.
> -- Mumbai attacker, Imran.



Thank you, but we don't appreciate Pakistani and Bangladeshi muslims pretending to be Indians giving us lectures. 

If he wants to know how we treat people like him - here's how- we kill them.


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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> You seem to be demanding a lot more neutrality from me than what you write in your own posts.


You were a self-appointed updater of current events weren't you?

Only fair if you take your UPDATE posts more responsibly.


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## Skywalker

jeypore said:


> Well you should also cry for this dream also.


uhn uhn uhn uhn....fell happy now


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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> Thank you, but we don't appreciate Pakistani and Bangladeshi muslims pretending to be Indians giving us lectures.
> 
> If he wants to know how we treat people like him - here's how- we kill them.


"Dil ko khush rakhne k liye, Ghalib. Yeh Khayal acha hai"
-- Mirza Ghalib on denials


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## haviZsultan

Asim Aquil said:


> &#8220;Muslims in India should not be persecuted. We love this as our country but when our mothers and sisters were being killed, where was everybody? Release all the mujahedeens, and Muslims living in India should not be troubled.&#8221;
> -- Mumbai attacker, Imran.



Exactly. And may the people of this world be reminded of the horrible crimes india perpetuates daily on the people. This is a brilliant report about Indian genocide of muslims:

* Concerned Citizens Tribunal - Gujarat 2002
An inquiry into the carnage in Gujarat*



Violence against Women


1.4. *While the large number of cases of sexual violence perpetrated during the statewide carnage in Gujarat is shocking, the trivial and dismissive manner in which this chilling pattern evidenced all over the state was dealt with by the CM and his cabinet, the authorities as a whole in Gujarat and, worst of all, by ministers in the government of India, make it doubly so.*

1.5. *The Tribunal notes with concern and outrage the shocking remarks made by the union defence minister, Shri George Fernandes on the floor of the Lok Sabha during the debate on the Gujarat carnage. He said, "There is nothing new in the mayhem let loose in Gujarat&#8230; A pregnant woman&#8217;s stomach being slit, a daughter being raped in front of a mother aren&#8217;t a new thing." Such things, Shri Fernandes said, have been happening for 54 years in India and happened even on the streets of New Delhi in 1984. (Lok Sabha debate on Gujarat, April 30, 2002, reported on May 1 in The Hindu, The Indian Express, the Deccan Herald and The Times of India.)*

1.6. *The Tribunal recorded with pain the statements of women from all over Gujarat who had either themselves been subject to sexual violence or were direct witness to it. Many of the over 33,000 children forced to live as refugees in relief camps throughout the state were also witness to the most debased and brutal forms of violence. They were mute witnesses to gross gender crimes perpetrated on their near and dear ones &#8212; sisters, mothers, aunts and even grandmothers &#8212; with gory and military precision, evidence of some sick minds and a vicious ideology. The Tribunal shudders to think of the impact of this on young and impressionable minds.*

1.7. *Women victims of the carnage from Saijpur Patia, Naroda, Chamanpura, Behrampura, Danilimda, Gomtipur, Vatwa, Narol, Shah-e-Alam, Millatnagar and Bapunagar in Ahmedabad city deposed before us. Not only had they been victims of violence that took the lives of their near and dear ones, their dignity was made a special target and their homes and belongings, collected painfully over the years, were looted and then destroyed. They have been forced to become refugees in their own homeland.*

1.8. *In Saijpur Patia, Naroda, on February 28, a mob of around 25,000 surrounded the Muslim areas at nine in the morning. They instigated the attacks by pelting stones at the residents &#8212; working class Muslims who had been living there for over 60 years &#8212; throwing acid and petrol bombs at them. Thereafter, they forcefully entered the lanes, shouting slogans against Muslims, implying that they are terrorists and that they should not be allowed to live in this country. They were also shouting the slogan, &#8216;Jai Shri Ram!&#8217;. The mobs were armed with sharp swords, spears, tridents, chemicals, petrol cans, kerosene and private firearms. Residents tried to defend themselves and their homes with the available stones but could not do so for long. The mob then went on a rampage, looting and burning houses. They then started killing people, first cutting them up with swords and then burning them saying, "We will even spoil your deaths." Evidently, this was not spontaneous, but a premeditated attack meant to subjugate or even obliterate a whole community. Muslims do not burn their dead, they bury them. The widespread use of arson and burning was part of a methodology to annihilate a community&#8217;s culture and beliefs.*

1.9. *When the residents of Saijpur Patia, Naroda, tried to escape, they were subjected to the mass rapes of their sisters, wives, mothers and daughters. The helpless men &#8212; brothers, sons, fathers and husbands &#8211; were first humiliated and then killed.*

1.10. The police, instead of firing on the assailants and protecting lives, misdirected the terrorised people and lead them towards armed mobs waiting for assault. Those who ran in the direction indicated by the police are no longer alive.

1.11. According to the evidence recorded by the Tribunal, the leaders of the mobs (many of whom have been identified) even raped young girls, some as young as 11-years-old. *The young girls were made to remove their clothes in front of 1,000&#8211;2,000 strong mobs who humiliated and terrorised the girls. Thereafter, they were raped by 8-10 men. After raping them, the attackers inserted sharp swords, knives or hard objects into their bodies to torture them before burning them alive. In the many bouts of communally incited pogroms that have taken place in different parts of the country, never has there been this depth of perversion, sickness and inhumaneness. Even a 20-day-old infant, or a foetus in the womb of its mother, was not spared. They flung babies in the pyres that they had prepared. They cut up people, threw then in a well known as &#8216;teesra kuva&#8217; and then burnt them. The police supported the mob during the assault by shelling tear gas shells on the hapless Muslims. They also opened fire on men when they were trying to defend the women in the area. The State Reserve Police was very complacent and indifferent saying, "We have been given orders to do nothing for 24 hours in Naroda." Women pleaded with the police and the SRP to stop acting partially and save the children at least. They begged before these policemen, laying their children at their feet, but it made no difference to them.*

1.12. *The sinister aspect of these gender crimes is that they have been led and directed by elected representatives and prominent leaders of the BJP, RSS and VHP.* (See section on Incidents of Violence, Volume I). This means that the dominant political leadership of our times is actually creating or displaying role models that glorify gender crimes against women. Can any civilised society witness this without finding an urgent need to punish those guilty and making a determined effort to purge public life of these perversions?

1.13. *In the attack on February 28 on Gulberg Society, Chamanpura, Ahmedabad, where a former Congress member of Parliament was a specific target, there were at least 10-12 cases of girls and women who were gang-raped, assaulted with swords and rods and quartered before being burnt to ashes.*

1.14. *Similarly, on March 1, in Fatehpura village outside Sanjeli, and in Morwa in the Panchmahal district, women were gang raped by mobs. Fatehpura is one village where, among the survivors, are many women victims of gross gender crimes.*

1.15. *The infamous BEST Bakery incident that occurred in Vadodara on the night of March 1, when 14 persons were quartered and burnt (the attack took place after a jeep of the Vadodara Panigate police had driven past at 9 p.m.) also involved three cases of communally-driven rape.*

1.16. At the mass grave that was dug on March 6 to provide burial to 96 bodies from Naroda Patiya, 46 women were buried.

1.17. *A rape victim from the Godhra relief camp told a tale that seemed to confirm a recurrent pattern in most places, according to survivors&#8217; accounts. She was stripped, gang-raped, her baby was killed before her, she was then beaten up, then burnt and left for dead. For variety&#8217;s sake, other women also had acid thrown upon them, and then burnt in fires. A womens&#8217; fact-finding report sums up the usual procedure: "..rape, gang rape, mass rape, stripping, insertion of objects into their body, molestation&#8230; a majority of rape victims were burnt alive."*

1.18. *Before they were finally killed, some were beaten up with rods and pipes for almost an hour. Before or after the killing, their vagina would be sliced, or would have iron rods pushed inside. Similarly, their bellies would be cut open or would have hard objects inserted into them. A 13-year old girl, had a rod pushed into her stomach, and was then burnt. A mother reported that her three-year old baby girl was raped and killed in front of her, while elsewhere daughters reported on the rapes of their mothers, now dead. Kausar Bano, a young girl from Naroda Patiya, was several months pregnant. Several eyewitnesses testified that she was raped, tortured, her womb was slit open with a sword to disgorge the foetus which was then hacked to pieces and roasted alive with the mother.*

1.19. Evidence placed before the Tribunal also shows how, on March 17, after the afternoon namaaz, the police unleashed a reign of brutality and terror on women and young men of the Danilimda area around Ahmedabad. Eleven boys were arrested on that day, without reason, when they were returning to their homes after praying at the masjid. About 500 women from Danilimda and Shah-e-Alam went to Danilimda police station to urge the police to release them. Initially, the police tried to send the women back saying that the boys have been transferred to Haveli police station. When the women repeatedly pleaded, argued and asked for the reasons for which they were arrested the police told the women, "You wait here, we will go and bring back the boys". They went in three police jeeps, returned with two additional jeeps full of policemen and immediately resorted to lathi charge. They beat the women severely with lathis and ***** of their guns, constantly using very abusive and offensive language. In all, 53 women were severely injured in the attack. Terrorised with further implications if they went to any hospital for treatment, these women were forced to nurse their wounds with home made remedies.

1.20. Evidence before us also shows that on February 28, armed mobs attacked Muslim homes in Gomtipur, in the Ambika Mill na Chapra and Nutan Mill na Chapra colonies. They looted and burnt houses. They were in such large numbers that the police pleaded that defence was impossible. Police behaviour indicated no desire to protect the lives of those targeted. On March 2, the residents of Patel ki Chali in Gomtipur closed the two main entry gates to their area, and the women gathered outside their homes guarding their men and their houses from both the police and the mob. The police entered by jumping over the gates. Head constable Narayan Modi was leading the police. He is the head constable in &#8216;D&#8217; staff in Gomtipur police station. When the women protested against his entering the area without any reason, Shri Modi used a very cheap and vulgar trick to humiliate and outwit the protesting women. He and his fellow policemen pulled down their trousers and started mouthing very offensive and indecent language. Encouraged by the disgusting conduct of the police men, the mob gathered outside the gates did the same.

1.21. Again, in the third round of violence from April 2 to April 5, the minority community living in Mariam Bibi ki Chali and Chotalal ki Chali constantly faced the danger of getting killed and burnt. Shri Narayan Modi, the head constable of the &#8216;D&#8217; staff, leading a posse of policemen and some jawans of the Rapid Action Force (a specialised wing of the police, specially created to combat communal conflict), attacked these areas, severely beat up the residents with lathis and the ***** of their guns and then stripped themselves in order to insult and humiliate them. This behaviour of the police towards women of the minority community had also been recorded in some incidents of the post-demolition violence that rocked Ahmedabad in 1992. But the scale and frequency of such shocking misconduct during the state sponsored carnage this time makes it most deplorable. It shows not just lawless behaviour by the police, but an identification with the ideology of hate and humiliation that instigated this and earlier bouts of violence against the minority community in Gujarat. This kind of behaviour by the police has completely alienated the entire minority community in Gujarat. Women, especially, feel fear, humiliation, disgust and anger at this.

1.22. Evidence before us shows how, especially in the Gomtipur area of Ahmedabad, the police even molested elderly women. Women managed to escape a worse fate only by constantly escaping to the relief camps. Once they had left the area to protect their lives and dignity, the assailants burnt down their houses. The police in Gomtipur regularly used this trick of stripping to make women flee the area, so that they could detain the men and the boys and destroy property, since women were the ones who were trying to defend their homes and the lives of their husbands and sons. Until August 12, when President APJ Abdul Kalam visited the area and women complained of no rehabilitation measures having been undertaken in Gomtipur, it was apparent that the state administration and the government had completely turned their eyes away from any sort of rehabilitation or compensation. During their tours of the state, both the President and the Chief Election Commissioner, Shri JM Lyngdoh evidenced the unchanged state of their homes a full six months after they were looted, destroyed and burnt down.

1.23. Evidence placed before the Tribunal shows that in the *later phases of violence, even in Vadodara city, vulgar and brutal behaviour of the police with women of the minority community was recurrent*. *Evidence on record shows that from March 15 onwards, the Vadodara police played a prominent role in terrorising Muslim residents in their localities through combing operations and illegal arrests. Women, in particular, were subject to oppressive forms of harassment in their homes, especially when their men had either fled or were away. One case of a pregnant woman, about to deliver, as narrated by her mother, was especially poignant. On the night of April 30, she was brutally beaten with lathis and the ***** of rifles, especially on her breasts. Though she had carried the baby to full term, this episode, in all probability, caused her to go into premature labour the next day and she delivered. With tears in her eyes, her mother recounted to the Tribunal how, when breast feeding her new born infant, while milk flowed from one breast, blood oozed out from the other, scarred by the beatings from the merciless Vadodara police.*

1.24. *Apart from physical beatings, Muslim women in localities of Vadodara were subject to sexual and communal threats; policemen used highly abusive language before they vandalised their homes. The Bahar colony at Ajwa Road, Rain Bassera, Machchipith under the Karelibaug Police Station, as well as areas under the jurisdiction of the Panigate Police Station were especially vulnerable to this sexually perverse and violent behaviour of the Vadodara police.*

1.25. The sexual assault on Muslim women in Gujarat since February 27, has to be seen in the context of the carnage carried out by the right wing Sangh Parivar with total state complicity. *Violence against the minority community assumed various forms: mass killings, sexual humiliation &#8212; including gang-rape &#8212; of women, brutal attacks on children, and attacks on the very survival of the minority community through looting, burning and destruction of their property and means of livelihood.*

1.26. *Evidence before the Tribunal shows that women have suffered the most bestial forms of sexual violence, including rape, gang rape, insertion of objects into their bodies, stripping, and molestation. A majority of the women who suffered this violence were then burnt alive. Amongst the survivors, many have spoken about the assaults but many have been silenced, for fear of further attacks and for fear of censure from their own families and community. Besides the lack of faith in the system of justice, the humiliation faced by women who dare challenge taboos and demand punishment for gender crimes like rape have silenced the natural cry for retribution and justice.*

1.27. *These crimes against women have been grossly underreported (note: the genocide is underreported!) and the exact extent of these crimes in rural and urban areas, has yet to be grappled with. These attacks have been carried out in the presence of, in many instances even at the behest of, the police and other state authorities.*

1.28. *In Gujarat, the degree of violence and sexual crimes against women reached unprecedented levels. Women, and entire communities, have been so traumatised and silenced that the full extent of this has yet to be realised. Mental trauma as well as insecurity of an extreme form are issues that need to be dealt with. The ineffectiveness and insensitivity of our criminal justice system, particularly when it comes to sexual and other crimes against women, renders the victim, her family and even the entire community in cases of mass and planned crimes of this sort, especially vulnerable. These crimes call for not simply a re-orientation in thinking and values in the matter of justice to the victims and punishment to the guilty; also urgently needed is psychological and trauma counseling for some sort of a healing process even to begin.*

1.29. *That sexual crimes against Muslim women took place on such a large scale in post-independent, democratic and secular India is shocking in itself. What is far worse is the shameful trivialising or denial of these crimes by agents and representatives of the central and state governments and outfits like the BJP and its affiliates like the RSS, the VHP and the Bajrang Dal. This amounts to a virtual condoning of such gross crimes against women.
*
1.30. *Attacks on children were used as instruments of terror. In what is surely the most perverse dimension of the violence, children were used to torture and terrorise victims. In one particularly tragic incident in Tarsali, an old Muslim man was shown the head of his beheaded son on a tray before he was himself brutally slain. Another woman, surrounded by a mob, had to watch as her son, who had climbed up a tree to escape the mob, was brought down, his fingers cut off and the rest of his body dismembered in her presence &#8212; all before she herself was killed. In many cases, children were beaten and abused in the presence of their parents. Even the police did not spare small children &#8212; they were beaten with lathis, kicked and abused, and in one case, even flung across a room. Young children who were badly beaten by the police were in a state of shock weeks after the incidents. *

The Indian muslims have finally risen up in rebellion against there Indian oppressors. I think the Christians and the Sikhs are to follow.

Anyhow this is a brilliant report about what it is exactly like to be a minority in India.


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## pkpatriotic

*A commando fires at suspected terrorists holed up in the Jewish centre*






*Indian Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) soliders patrol outside Nariman House, the scene of one of a string of coordinated attacks in Mumbai *





*A fireman speaks with foreign tourists who were rescued from the Taj Mahal hotel *


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## haviZsultan

I cant believe no one will thank me for the article back there... 

Comeon. Thank me. Where is the love yaar?


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## Imran Khan

*ISI cheif never go india may be any sectery will go presedent house and ISPR says*


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## Awesome

dimension117 said:


> I cant believe no one will thank me for the article back there...
> 
> Comeon. Thank me. Where is the love yaar?


It's such a long read.

I would rather watch the movie 

(btw its called loose change, something... Google it, its all in there).


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## Awesome

dimension117 said:


> I cant believe no one will thank me for the article back there...
> 
> Comeon. Thank me. Where is the love yaar?


It's such a long read.

I would rather watch the movie 

(btw its called loose change, something... Google it, its all in there).


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## Awesome

Asim Aquil said:


> It's such a long read.
> 
> I would rather watch the movie
> 
> (btw its called loose change, something... Google it, its all in there).


I'm pretty sure Zardari and MMS have some sort of collaboration. Agreeing to send Shuja Pasha to India would really help Singh look tougher than the wimp he really is.


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## indiapakistanfriendship

> No I do not see Hollywood movies a lot!
> 
> I *actually know a few things more than you do about Special Forces & their training programs all over the world than you do! That's all!*
> 
> And the more I see the Indian comments praising the Especial Forces NSG, the more I am amused at the internal ignorance whihc you Indians display on military and spec ops code!



Awwww .. here we ago.."Inow better thean you".. " I know inside out" blah blah and more blah.. There are few good men in this forum (your fellow nationals) who do really know what they are talking about and all of them don't start off with"I know better than you".

Have you served in a SOF or SF unit? 
Except as a an armchair TV show watcher, your knowledge regarding SF means next to nothing..

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## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> I'm pretty sure Zardari and MMS have some sort of collaboration. Agreeing to send Shuja Pasha to India would really help Singh look tougher than *the wimp he really is*.



I thought wimps are those whose people are daily killed by foreign drones and who then pretend that their people are being killed with some secret understanding.

Or may be who cower at that single famous phone call for years and years!

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## dr.umer

*Mauritian ID cards, explosives found from terrorists in Taj​*
28 Nov 2008

PTI

*Mumbai: A Mauritian identity card, credit and debit cards of banks and explosives were seized from the terrorists who attacked the Taj Mahal hotel, a senior marine commando said.
*
*We found a purse in a bag, in which there was a Mauritian government identity card, seven bank credit and debit cards of banks like HSBC, HDFC and ICICI and cash of Rs6,840. We have given all the details to the police, the commander of the marine commandos team said.*

However, he refused to divulge details of the identity card and the bank documents found there.

A bag filled with material was found at the hertiage building of the Taj Hotel by the marine commandos following a tense gunbattle in which one marine commando was seriously injured and another sustained injuries.

The bag contained dry fruits as ration for several days, seven magazines of AK rifles, explosives, grenades, money and US currency, the commander of the marine commandos said.

-------------------------

Now bug off and run after Mauritius


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## indiapakistanfriendship

> I'm pretty sure Zardari and MMS have some sort of collaboration. Agreeing to send Shuja Pasha to India would really help Singh look tougher



I am sure the decision to send Pasha would have been taken in consultation with Pasha himself.



> than the wimp he really is.



You guys place more emphasis on looks and demenear don't you. Mark my words MMS knows exactly what he is doing, he is very calculative and bases his decision on logic...Truth is he is way better than rest of the politicos in India are concerned. Point being the way he stood up for Nuke deal with commies..


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## Flintlock

*Pak opposition slams govt's plan to send ISI chief to India*
28 Nov 2008, 2316 hrs IST, PTI

ISLAMABAD: Pakistani opposition parties today slammed the PPP-led government for its decision to send ISI chief to India to share the information
on intelligence,* saying that it amounted to "summoning" of the spy agency's head by the Indian Prime Minister.
*
"The blame game is not the answer to such incidents and it appeared *awkward that the ISI chief was going to India almost at the Indian Prime Minister's summoning," opposition PML-N spokesman Ahsan Iqbal said.
*
Iqbal said the Pakistan government had acted in haste and should instead have offered to form a "joint task force with equal responsibility".

He said that India had in the past blamed Pakistan for terrorist attacks but subsequent probes had shown they were carried out by "internal groups".

Opposition PML-Q and Jamaat-e-Islami also criticised the Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani government's decision.

PML-Q spokesman Tariq Azeem claimed India was resorting to "a knee jerk reaction by blaming Pakistan instead of carrying out a thorough investigation".

The decision to send ISI chief Lt Gen Shuja Pasha to India came after the Prime Minister Manmohan Singh told Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani that investigators had found involvement of Pakistan-based elements in the attacks in Mumbai.

He told Gilani that Pakistan should send its ISI chief to New Delhi "to cooperate in the investigations of the Mumbai attack and for sharing certain information".

Pakistan agreed to Singh's proposal and said Pasha would travel to New Delhi soon, for which modalities would be worked out by the two sides.

Pak opposition slams govt's plan to send ISI chief to India-Pakistan-World-The Times of India


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## indiapakistanfriendship

> Or may be who cower at that single famous phone call for years and years!


Err Vinod what phone call was that?


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## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> You were a self-appointed updater of current events weren't you?
> 
> Only fair if you take your UPDATE posts more responsibly.



I cannot be more neutral than the forum administrator.


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## pkpatriotic

*Indian forces battle pockets of militants*
*By KEITH BRADSHER and SOMINI SENGUPTA





Published: November 28, 2008*





*A commando rappelled from a helicopter near Nariman House, where militants are believed to be hiding, in Mumbai on Friday.*

*MUMBAI, India  As the crisis in Mumbai entered its third day, Indian commandos fought running battles with militants on Friday, still struggling to end the murderous assault on Indias financial capital that has shaken the nation and raised perilous regional tensions with neighboring Pakistan.*

*As a measure of the possible implications of the attacks for regional relations, the chief of Pakistans powerful intelligence organization was due to make an extraordinary visit to India to assist in the investigations and calm tensions between the two countries, as the Indian government explicitly blamed elements with links to Pakistan and the full scale and the death toll from the attacks became clearer.* 

Two Americans, a 58-year-old man and his 13-year-daughter, members of a spiritual community visiting from Virginia, were confirmed as among those killed in one of the luxury hotels that was attacked. They were among a total of at least 22 foreigners, who had died during the attacks, the Indian authorities said, according to The Associated Press. 

Among the dead were the bodies of five hostages, most of them believed to be Jewish citizens, who were brought out from a Jewish community center in the city, Nariman House, after Indian commando units stormed the attackers inside the building, ending the stand-off there. The terrorists had executed the hostages during the commando raid, the Indian military said, adding that two attackers had also been killed. 

A rabbi from Brooklyn, New York, Gavriel Holtzberg, and his wife, Rivka, were among the dead.

Shortly before night settled over the stricken city, the police said the death toll had reached 143 with the discovery of 24 bodies in the luxury Oberoi hotel, where the police had finally taken control and many guests were set free on Friday. 

But the armys operation at a second luxury hotel, the Taj, was only entering its final phase, according to the Indian military, with commandos battling one terrorist left inside who the army said was moving between two floors of the hotel, including an area that had been a dance floor for weddings and other parties. The army said two other militants had been killed overnight in the Taj. Later, commandos were seen rushing through the front door of the hotel, in what appeared to be another major assault to dislodge the militants.

Indian commandos involved in the fighting in the hotels said the attackers were well-trained and remorseless, carrying a backpack packed with hundreds of rounds of ammunition, and they seemed to know the hotel layout better than the security forces, indicating a high degree of preparation and sophistication.

With the situation seeming to come gradually under the authorities control, attention was shifting to the identities of the attackers, several of whom were reported to be seized during the onslaught. The Indian media focused on the possible involvement of Lashkar-e-Taiba, a guerrilla group run by Pakistani intelligence in the conflict with India in the disputed territory of Kashmir.

Amid an atmosphere of recrimination between political parties within the country, a senior Hindu nationalist leader, L.K. Advani, said the Indian security services had become preoccupied with Hindu terrorists and missed threats from Islamists. The Indian foreign minister, Pranab Mukherjee, said early evidence explicitly pointed to Pakistans involvement. "Preliminary evidence, prima facie evidence, indicates elements with links to Pakistan are involved," Mukherjee told reporters in New Delhi.

In the Oberoi, some guests were still barricaded in their rooms as security forces reasserted control of the hotel, and they were watching events outside on television news channels. But police and military officers did not explain why the operation to flush out a handful of assailants in the Taj hotel and the Jewish community center had taken so long.

At the Jewish center, commandos slid down ropes from a hovering Army helicopter on Friday morning as they stormed the building. The blue-uniformed troopers landed on the roof and soon made their way inside the center, home to the Hasidic Jewish group Chabad-Lubavitch. 

Throughout Friday, a gun battle raged inside the Jewish center, which echoed to the thump of explosions and the rattle of automatic fire. Later, Reuters reported that the commandos had blown up the outer wall of the center, and that the bodies of five hostages were discovered, quoting an Israeli diplomat speaking on Israeli television.

Late in the day, commandos in black uniform wearing heavy body armor moved into buildings around Nariman House, relieving commandos in blue or black uniforms who had been in action all day. For the first time, a van with six medics in surgical gowns and masks parked close to Nariman House, apparently in anticipation of casualties.

While there was still no definitive word on the identity or affiliation of the attackers, an Indian official said one assailant had been captured alive and was a Pakistani citizen. 

The assertion, by R.R. Patil, the home affairs minister of Maharashtra State, where Mumbai is located, could further increase tension between India and Pakistan, both nuclear-armed states which have fought wars in the past. In a significant development, Pakistan said on Friday it was prepared to send its intelligence chief, Ahmed Shuja Pasha, to India to share information in the investigation into the attacks.

In London, officials said they were unable to confirm reports in a British newspaper that some of the attackers held British passports, which are relatively common among people with ties to former British colonies, but other officials said it was unlikely.

The main success of the day for the authorities came at the Oberoi hotel where police said that 93 foreigners  some of them wearing Air France and Lufthansa uniforms  had been rescued on Friday. Exhausted survivors offered harrowing accounts of their ordeal, trapped on the upper floors of the high-rise hotel occupied on lower floors by gunmen.

The Mumbai police chief, Hassan Ghafoor, said 24 bodies had been found at the hotel.

At the Taj hotel , several trucks carrying Indian commandos arrived at 1:15 p.m. on Friday. The troopers appeared to be starting an assault on the hotel, where an army official said at least one militant was still holding hostages. Throughout Friday, explosions and small arms fire were heard from the hotel as security forces sought to free hostages. But progress seemed cautious and slow. Outside the hotel, an Indian army sniper took up position in a cherrypicker. By late afternoon, smoke had again begun to billow from the roof of the hotel, parts of which were gutted by a huge blaze after the gunmen first moved into the hotel on Wednesday. And by nightfall, explosions and gunfire continued to shake the building.

The leader of a commando unit involved in a gun battle Thursday morning inside the Taj said during a news conference on Friday that he had seen a dozen dead bodies in one of the rooms. 

His team also discovered a gunmans backpack, which contained dried fruit, 400 rounds of AK-47 ammunition, four grenades, Indian and American money, and seven credit cards from some of the worlds leading banks. They pack also had a national identity card from the island of Mauritius, off Africas southeastern coast. 

The attackers were very, very familiar with the layout of the hotel, said the commander, who disguised his face with a scarf and tinted glasses. He said the militants, who appeared to be under 30 years old, were determined and remorseless. 

On Thursday, the police said 14 police officers had been killed in the city, along with nine gunmen. Nine suspects were taken into custody, they said. 

*In a televised speech Thursday, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh blamed forces based outside this country in a thinly veiled accusation that Pakistan was involved. A day later, Indias foreign minister Pranab Mukherjee was quoted by the Press Trust of India as saying that, according to preliminary reports, some elements in Pakistan are responsible.*

*But Pakistan seemed anxious to defuse the mounting crisis in relations with its neighbor. Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said India and Pakistan should join hands to defeat a common enemy, and urged New Delhi not to play politics over the attacks in Mumbai, Reuters reported.*

*Do not bring politics into this issue, the Pakistani foreign minister told reporters in the Indian town of Ajmer during a four-day visit to India. This is a collective issue. We are facing a common enemy and we should join hands to defeat the enemy.* 

*President Asif Ali Zardari called Mr. Singh, Reuters reported, to say he was appalled and shocked by the terrorist attacks. Non-state actors wanted to force upon the governments their own agenda, but they must not be allowed to succeed, he said.* 


*Reporting was contributed by Jeremy Kahn from Mumbai; Mark McDonald from Hong Kong; Heather Timmons and Hari Kumar from New Delhi; Salman Masood from Islamabad, Pakistan; Alan Cowell from Paris; and Graham Bowley and Liz Robbins from New York.*

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## Vinod2070

indiapakistanfriendship said:


> Err Vinod what phone call was that?



Let me try to remember.....................

Damn, can't remember now....

Shall we ask the Commando president Mr. Musharraf? He may just remember.


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## Flintlock

imran khan said:


> *ISI cheif will never visit india may be any secertry will go there.ISPR and PRESEDENT HOUSE says*



So is Pakistan going back on its word?


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## haviZsultan

Asim Aquil said:


> It's such a long read.
> 
> I would rather watch the movie
> 
> (btw its called loose change, something... Google it, its all in there).



F4 video these are good. I make all these vids and yt deletes so she posted up... ofcourse no doubt it is true which is why i started getting death threats for posting them and hindu fanatics threatened to kill me at college. lol... :





genocide of muslims which is cause of muslim terrorism.





Genocide of minorities, muslims, christians and sikhs due to which there are organizations that want freedom for each... 

Do watch them. Indian users they are also for you so you can learn from your mistakes. In this way there will be no attacks like mumbai and you will not need to hide the fact that muslims have actually rebelled in India by pointing towards Pakistan. We should all learn from history should'nt we?


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## Imran Khan

Flintlock said:


> So is Pakistan going back on its word?



yes after huge pablic protest over this isue.check pakistani news.why our spy chef will go there pablic is angry because they thing its insult of DG ISI

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## indiapakistanfriendship

> Look how 2 people guard a window, one sits on the bed (looks like that) and the person living there is behind his bed... O the other part where a *person walks aroun with his gun.*.. Or the one that shoots without aiming... *If he hits something with his mp5* then he should be the next Indian president.



I don't see whats wrong in NSG walking around with his gun.. For petes sake you based your entire argument based on way off shots and looks alone. These boys know what they are doing. When did being tight equal to being professional.Alas when did we gain professionalim to comment on other soldiers professionalism. For starters we both have not served in SF.

IPF


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## dr.umer

dr.umer said:


> *Mauritian ID cards, explosives found from terrorists in Taj​*



Indian government and media running round and round in circles trying to find corners.


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## IceCold

Vinod2070 said:


> I thought wimps are those whose people are daily killed by foreign drones and who then pretend that their people are being killed with some secret understanding.
> 
> Or may be who cower at that single famous phone call for years and years!



Don't you think you are going way over your head in insulting Pakistan and its people, but then again don't cry out loud when their is a back lash. And Yes the on going strikes are with the consent of the GOP those who think otherwise live in a fools paradise. Now i don't think we need to give a clarification on that to Indians you are free to view it as you like, the topic is Mumbai under siege, it will be better for us to stick to what the topic is and stop flaming.


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## dr.umer

imran khan said:


> yes after huge pablic protest over this isue.check pakistani news.why our spy chef will go there pablic is angry because they thing its insult of DG ISI



Sir Imran, news still saying ISI Chief will go to India. Where you heard this news ?


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## indiapakistanfriendship

> Let me try to remember.....................
> 
> Damn, can't remember now....
> 
> Shall we ask the Commando president Mr. Musharraf? He may just remember.



You caught me off gaurd.. but seriously Id really like to know about that phone call


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## haviZsultan

Asim Aquil said:


> I'm pretty sure Zardari and MMS have some sort of collaboration. Agreeing to send Shuja Pasha to India would really help Singh look tougher than the wimp he really is.



I think the Indians definately need our help here. We must help them and be of assistance in every possible way we can. When an organization like RAW turns to terrorism and bloodshed to achieve its goals it is responsibility of people to make sure they correct it.


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## Vinod2070

dr.umer said:


> Indian government and media running round and round in circles trying to find corners.



Did you manage to find the Mariott bombers identity and bring them to book?


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## Munir

I think they don't even understand what and how it hit them so bad... There you go as a superpower. I think it will take a long time before it will be clear. At the same time it is typical to startup its nuclear forces... That will bring what?


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## Vinod2070

IceCold said:


> Don't you think you are going way over your head in insulting Pakistan and its people, but then again don't cry out loud when their is a back lash. And Yes the on going strikes are with the consent of the GOP those who think otherwise live in a fools paradise. Now i don't think we need to give a clarification on that to Indians you are free to view it as you like, the topic is Mumbai under siege, it will be better for us to stick to what the topic is and stop flaming.



I agree with you. My post was in response to the PM of my country being called a pimp. I just brought out some facts to ponder.


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## IceCold

This is indeed an insult, ISI chief should not go to an enemy country, and this time the parliament should move a resolution addressing this. Imran khan was already saying this is a bad decision, i think BS should also stand up and protest on this unjustified act of the government.


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## Munir

It is funny that Indians are so heavy with thanking eachother for every stupid posts. Mods, either delete this option or explain why Indians thank eachother for no reason at all... It is purely fraud.

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## dr.umer

Vinod2070 said:


> Did you manage to find the Mariott bombers identity and bring them to book?



At least we didn't blame India without proofs.


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## indiapakistanfriendship

> I think the Indians definately need our help here. We must help them and be of assistance in every possible way we can. When an organization like RAW turns to terrorism and bloodshed to achieve its goals it is responsibility of people to make sure they correct it.



Whatever.. I guess you are making a mistake.. MMS is not a run of the mill politician(In fact he is not! in the first place). He does not mince words and does not talk with out a sound rationale. To sum it up If he summons ISI chief, that means he does have someting tangible. In India if someting is coming from MMS, NSA, Army command, means it is serious(means business) and true unlike other institutions like rest of the politicians and local police. I think it is a step in right direction as it will help prevent misunderstanding. The poulace if seeking blood. I for one believe that Pakistani government is not involved(Sounds rationale) but however the terrorists have come from Pakistan so no point in attackin Pakistan when we can work with them..

IPF


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## Awesome

imran khan said:


> yes after huge pablic protest over this isue.check pakistani news.why our spy chef will go there pablic is angry because they thing its insult of DG ISI


Yaar I don't think there's anything wrong with going to India. Or maybe Indians can come to Pakistan. Either way that would help the investigation.

But you know politicians. The opposition parties are making a huge fuss over this and will use this against the government! So eventually they will not let him go.

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## SmashJ

Asim Aquil said:


> I'm pretty sure Zardari and MMS have some sort of collaboration. Agreeing to send Shuja Pasha to India would really help Singh look tougher than the wimp he really is.




He is more of a man than you could ever be. And look who's talking your PM is a PM only coz he happens to be husband of B.Bhutto. Even if a beggar was her husband he would be your PM now. 

I think you watch what you are writing and *next time buy some brainz for your empty skull.*


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## Munir

dr.umer said:


> At least we didn't blame India without proofs.



I think the steel of the truck was from Tata... Clearly Indian.


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## dr.umer

*No decision yet on sending ISI chief to India: ISPR​*
November 28, 2008

ISLAMABAD: The Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) has said on Friday that the Director General of the Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) Lt. General Ahmed Shuja Pasha would visit India once the government finalizes modalities.

Talking to Geo News, Pak Army spokesman, Maj. General Athar Abbas said that there is a need to avoid blame game. Abbas termed statements of Indian authorities irresponsible and baseless


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## Awesome

indiapakistanfriendship said:


> Whatever.. I guess you are making a mistake.. MMS is not a run of the mill politician(In fact he is not! in the first place). He does not mince words and does not talk with out a sound rationale. To sum it up If he summons ISI chief, that means he does have someting tangible. In India if someting is coming from MMS, NSA, Army command, means it is serious(means business) and true unlike other institutions like rest of the politicians and local police. I think it is a step in right direction as it will help prevent misunderstanding. The poulace if seeking blood. I for one believe that Pakistani government is not involved(Sounds rationale) but however the terrorists have come from Pakistan so no point in attackin Pakistan when we can work with them..
> 
> IPF


He has begged Zardari to help him save some face. Which is why Zardari agreed to send him there.

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## dr.umer

Qureshi urges India not to get sucked into blame game

November 28, 2008

NEW DELHI: Pakistan's foreign minister asked India on Friday not to get sucked into a blame game over the Mumbai attacks and drag relations between the nuclear-armed neighbours back into the deep freeze.

Speaking in New Delhi, where he was on a four-day official visit, Shah Mehmood Qureshi condemned the multiple assaults on India's financial capital, calling the militants "barbaric animals". He also urged the need to immediately activate the joint anti-terrorism mechanism to deal with terrorism activities taking place in both countries.

Pakistani FM said it is a difficult moment for India but there is a need to avoid blame game of the past. &#8220;We should demonstrate statesmanship to wriggle out of this situation,&#8221; he added. 

Expressing sympathies on behalf of the people and Government of Pakistan to Indian side, he said Pakistan wanted to strengthen institutional arrangement of anti terrorism mechanism by sharing the information. 

It had also offered establishing hotlines between Chiefs of Intelligence Agencies and National Security Advisers, as terrorism was not a Pakistan&#8217;s problem only. &#8220;It is regional and global curse,&#8221; he added.


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## pkpatriotic

*Mumbai Attacks, Updates Day 3* - NYTimes.com
*By Graham Bowley*





*November 28, 2008, 8:39 am *





*Commandos pry the glass off a window on the fourth floor of Nariman House in Mumbai on Friday. (Michael Rubenstein for The New York Times)*

The crisis in Mumbai continued for a third day as militants and security forces engaged in gun battles in at least two locations, the Taj Mahal Palace and Tower Hotel and the Nariman House, home to the Hasidic Jewish group Chabad-Lubavitch. The death toll in the attacks that began on Wednesday now stands at 143. Graham Bowley, along with New York Times correspondents Somini Sengupta and Keith Bradsher, who are both on the scene, followed the developments on Friday. Earlier in the day, Mr. Bradsher provided minute-by-minute coverage of the commando operation at the Nariman House. The Lede also followed the events in Mumbai Wednesday evening, early Thursday and Thursday evening.

*More From the Taj | 12:58 p.m.* We just heard again from Jeremy Kahn, who is outside the Taj. The fighting continues, he reports, and fresh government troops just entered the hotel. He reports that he can see stacks of stretchers just inside the door.

NDTV, the Indian news network, has updated its reporting on the Taj, noting that there are conflicting accounts of how many attackers remain inside. The authorities say just one, but other reports suggest as many as six remain. There are repeated gunfires and flashes of fire at the window of the room on the first floor, the network said. The battle is now fully raging.

Twitters Mumbai feed also has many updates and observations, some of them quite opinionated.

*Moving In on the Taj | 12:46 p.m. *Jeremy Kahn, a contributor to our sister newspaper, The International Herald Tribune, reports that commandos have rushed through the front of the Taj hotel, which seems to be the last remaining location where the attackers have not been subdued. Gun battles are still going on, Mr. Kahn reports, and one terrorist is believed to be still inside. It is unclear how many civilians are still trapped.

The Web site of the Indian news network NDTV is also reporting heavy firing and explosions in Wasabi restaurant in the Taj.

*Rabbi and Wife Are Dead | 11:51 a.m.* The Web site Chabad.org is reporting that Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberb, and his wife, Rivka, who managed the Chabad-Lubavitch center known as Nariman House, were killed in the attacks. The couples toddler son, Moshe, escaped with his nanny before Indian commandos stormed the building earlier in the day. The Web site reports:





*Rabbi Gavriel Noach Holtzberg and his wife Rivkah Holtzberg, the directors of Chabad-Lubavitch of Mumbai in an undated photo provided by Chabad.org. )(Associated Press)*

*Gabi and Rivky Holtzberg made the ultimate sacrifice, said Rabbi Moshe Kotlarsky, vice chairman of Merkos LInyonei Chinuch, the educational arm of Chabad-Lubavitch. As emissaries to Mumbai, Gabi and Rivky gave up the comforts of the West in order to spread Jewish pride in a corner of the world that was a frequent stop for throngs of Israeli tourists. Their Chabad House was popular among the local community, as well as with visiting businesspeople. *

According to the Web site, Rabbi Holtzberg, who was 29, was born in Israel and moved to the Crown Heights section of Brooklyn when he was nine. He was described as a prodigious student who studied at yeshivas in New York and Argentina. Two years ago, the Web site reported, the Holtzbergs raised funds to purchase the current location of the Chabad House, a five-story building in Mumbais Colaba market area known as Nariman House. His last known phone call was to the Israeli Consulate to report that gunmen were in his house, the site reported. In the middle of the conversation, the line went dead.

*Attackers Reported Killed at Jewish Center | 11:36 a.m. *The IBN news network is quoting the director general of the National Security Guard as confirming the deaths of five hostages at the Nariman House. The official, J.K. Dutt, also said that two of the attackers were killed as well. The network reports: 

*We have captured the whole building, said Dutt, adding the commandos were moving through the building to check for explosives.

We had taken over the second floor of the house when a grenade was launched from above. Three hostages were killed by terrorists before they moved upstairs. NSG commandos moved upstairs to kill two terrorists on the fourth floor. Terrorists killed two hostages in this floor, said Dutt.* 

A rabbi from Brooklyn, N.Y., Gavriel Holtzberg, and his wife, Rivka, who managed the Nariman House, were reported to be among the hostages in the building. It is unclear at this point whether they were among the victims. The couples two-year-old son and a staff member managed to escape, according to the IBN report.





*A National Security Guard commando fires at suspected militants believed to be hiding in Nariman House, in Mumbai on Friday. (Peter Keep/Reuters)*

*Bodies Found in Jewish Center | 10:27 a.m.* The Associated Press has reported that five bodies were discovered by commandos who stormed the Nariman House. The A.P. reported:

_A delegation from Israels ZAKA emergency medical services unit entered the building after the raid and reported through an Indian aide that five hostages and two gunmen were dead, a ZAKA spokesman in Israel said. The spokesman had no information on the hostages identities or whether there were wounded inside._

*Confirmation of American Deaths | 10:01 a.m.* The State Department has confirmed that there have been two American citizens killed in the terrorist attacks in Mumbai. The families have been notified by the State Department.

*Two Americans Killed | 9:47 a.m.* 
An American meditation center has put out a statement saying that two of its members, Alan and Naomi Scherr, were killed in the Oberoi in Mumbai. 

The Associated Press describes them as a father and his 13-year-old daughter.

The organization, Virginia-based Synchronicity, said:

_It is with great sadness that we have learned of the passing of two of our loved community members Alan and Naomi Scherr who were tragically killed in the recent events at the Oberoi in Mumbai. Our love and support go out to Kia and Alans family at such a heartbreaking time._ 

They were apparently part of a 25-person group who were staying at the Oberoi Hotel. Four others  two Americans and two Canadians  were wounded by gunfire, and were believed to be in stable condition, Synchronicity said in a statement.

A Web site has been set up for people to pay tribute to the couple.

*Cheering Crowds at Nariman House | 9:04 a.m.* Indian television shows a near riot on the streets in front of Nariman House, as celebrating crowds seem to believe that its all over. They are cheering trucks with armed men in camouflage. 

But a Times correspondent adds that the police have come out to try to calm the crowds down, saying that they still need to clear more floors of the Jewish community center.

There is no concrete information about the Rabbi and his wife, or the terrorists who were in the house.

The spokesman for Chabad Lubavitch says they are hearing contradictory information.

*Taj Explosions | 8:49 a.m.* There has been new fire and explosions at the Taj in the last few minutes, coming from the first floor where the Wasabi sushi restaurant is located. 

One militant is still believed to be there.

*City Racked by Gunfire | 8:00 a.m.* Nearly a full 48 hours after the siege that shook Mumbai began, the city is still racked by gunfire, with Indian Army troops continuing to battle the attackers and presumably trying to free hostages. 

More heavy explosions are rocking Nariman House, home to the Orthodox Jewish group Chabad Lubavitch, where the Indian Army has been carrying out assaults all day. There has been heavy fighting at the community center in the morning and in the late afternoon.

There is also intense fighting still going on at the Taj hotel, probably the most intense yet.

Somini Sengupta, a Times correspondent, has been watching events there:

_Several loud explosions, possibly grenades in the last 15 minutes. A woman journalist injured. A person standing next to her says it was her left leg. Could have been shrapnel or a bullet. Unclear. Another spectator also hit. There are more than 100 journalists camped out in front of the Gateway of India from where we have the closest and view of the hotel._

More bodies have been brought out of the Taj, she reports.

At the Oberoi hotel, the fighting seems to be nearly over although it is still unclear whether the army has removed all the attackers. Hostages have been evacuated. But witnesses say they have been talking via phone or instant messenger to people who are inside the rooms and have not yet come out.

Keith Bradsher, a Times correspondent, sends this report:

_*The Oberoi Hotel and the adjacent Trident Hotel, the scene of fighting over the past two days, were both quiet this evening and brightly lit. Five hotel guests were allowed to cross the police line after presenting their room cards and explaining that they needed to collect their luggage. Several onlookers said that they had heard two large bangs about 20 minutes earlier. But there is no sign of commandos here and it is possible that the bangs were the work of police blowing up possible booby traps. Several gunshots were audible in the distance just now, but the sound seemed to be coming from Nariman House still.*_


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## Flintlock

Munir said:


> It is funny that Indians are so heavy with thanking eachother for every stupid posts. Mods, either delete this option or explain why Indians thank eachother for no reason at all... It is purely fraud.



Your forum should either be fully neutral or it should admit that the word of a Pakistani troll here is worth more than any responsible Indian member. 

You cannot keep assuring Indian members that you are not biased and yet continue to expect them to have much higher standards than you yourself exhibit.

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## Vinod2070

dr.umer said:


> At least we didn't blame India without proofs.



That is a diversion.

You were questioning the competence of the Indian agencies in finding the culprits when the operation is still on. Your own don't seem much better.


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## Imran Khan

Asim Aquil said:


> Yaar I don't think there's anything wrong with going to India. Or maybe Indians can come to Pakistan. Either way that would help the investigation.
> 
> But you know politicians. The opposition parties are making a huge fuss over this and will use this against the government! So eventually they will not let him go.



i will never say you wrong ever .its happens when all indian media show our cheif as a crimnal.and when most of pakistani tv channels show what indian tv ankers show there pablic as our respected DG ISI.we want copreate and they want drama. so why not pablic show anger.all pakistani partyes now going to oppose this.we are same pakistani with praud and respect do any thing.if 150 people killed in india so we lsoe our respect praud no way every day in incedent 100 people die in india.


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## Awesome

SmashJ said:


> I thimk Zardari has begged you to save his face and that is why you are writing all this


Don't be lame.


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## Vinod2070

indiapakistanfriendship said:


> You caught me off gaurd.. but seriously Id really like to know about that phone call



Sent the details in a PM.


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## Kasrkin

We SHOULD NOT send him there, under no circumstances&#8230;not until the Indians learn some bloody respect and stop pretending that they have the authority or credibility to summon our leaders. We should not oblige ourselves to India&#8217;s PR wimps especially if those imaginings are aimed towards our honor.

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## indiapakistanfriendship

> He has begged Zardari to help him save some face. Which is why Zardari agreed to send him there.



Why on earth would someone beg to Zardari in te first place...In fact I think the vice versa must have been true. When was the last time any Pakistani leader in recent times(Inluding Mushy) was known to have stood his ground.

The man has something tangible and he wants to clear misunderstandings. Like I said the populace is rearing for blood so better to clarify things rather than a full blown combat.

You underestimate the man.He stands on his ground. In India MMS, NSA and Army GHQ don't mince words...


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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> Your forum should either be fully neutral or it should admit that the word of a Pakistani troll here is worth more than any responsible Indian member.
> 
> You cannot keep assuring Indian members that you are not biased and yet continue to expect them to have much higher standards than you yourself exhibit.


*Stop calling each other trolls!

That is a purely Admin/Mod decision.*


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## Vinod2070

Asim Aquil said:


> He has begged Zardari to help him save some face. Which is why Zardari agreed to send him there.



Like Mr. Powell begged Musharraf with the "with us or against us" *request*?


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## Awesome

indiapakistanfriendship said:


> Why on earth would someone beg to Zardari in te first place...In fact I think the vice versa must have been true. When was the last time any Pakistani leader in recent times(Inluding Mushy) was known to have stood his ground.
> 
> The man has something tangible and he wants to clear misunderstandings. Like I said the populace is rearing for blood so better to clarify things rather than a full blown combat.
> 
> You underestimate the man.He stands on his ground. In India MMS, NSA and Army GHQ don't mince words...


ISPR said they are yet to decide whether or not to send him...

Where's all your "summoning" now? 

That is where your hubris will get you. You're dependent upon us, not the other way round.

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## Nihat

I guess I left this page when it was about 35-45 pages long , now in 6 hours it's 100+ pages and everyone is going around in circles , the same bloody thin g. Round and Round and Round.

If the resident Pak members find any post offensive then don't reply to it , think of the post as one made by less IQ

Same goes for the Indian guys and a certain Chinese too (this is not a wepons exhibition)

The thread was on the mumbai attack , so please post updates and condolences , by playing a slanging match - It's an insult to the dead and suffering.

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## Always Neutral

Asim Aquil said:


> Yaar I don't think there's anything wrong with going to India. Or maybe Indians can come to Pakistan. Either way that would help the investigation.
> 
> But you know politicians. The opposition parties are making a huge fuss over this and will use this against the government! So eventually they will not let him go.



I think its a positive and ground breaking move on part of both Pakistan and India,

Most Western Analyst say that its very unlikely that the Pakistan Govt or ISI will involve itself in killing Israeli, US, UK or Japanese citizens.

That would be the last nail in their precarious financial situation. However these people getting training, comming from Karachi or being guided by LET is a very open possiblity.

Since the FBI, Scotland Yard and MOSSAD have openly joined the investitigations the ISI Chief's comming here would be good since the evidence will be neutral and un-doctered.

The only drawback is that if the captured terrorists and the the ones killed are traced to Pakistan. This will be damning and one must not forget while Pakistani egos (especially on this forum) will be bruised if India demanded something, Pakistan cannot offend USA, UK, Germany and Japan whose citizens died.

Lets wait and watch.

Regards


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## Awesome

SmashJ said:


> If you can make your assumption, i can make mine. I am as lame as you are *no more, no less.*


Ah now that the crisis is over, I don't have to feel sorry for trolls any more. I can start being trigger happy with the ban button again. I think this Admin team has been VERY tolerant with all parties involved. Sadly some of you folks just want a mile for every inch that is offered.

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## dr.umer

*INDIA: Empathy, Grief in Pakistan at Mumbai Mayhem​*
*KARACHI, Nov 29 (IPS) - The terrorist attacks unleashed in the Indian port city and financial hub of Mumbai continue to reverberate through Pakistan at a personal level and on the media. *

The crisis, that began Wednesday night and lasted through Friday, dominates conversation, newspaper headlines, television coverage and Internet chatter on indigenous websites and e-mail lists run by Pakistanis at home and abroad. 

As a frontline state in United States global war on terror Pakistan is only too well acquainted with the effects of terrorism, with such attacks in the country having more than doubled and the number of deaths quadrupling from 2006 to 2007, according to a report released in May by the U.S. State Department. 

However, even the most high profile attack in Pakistan which destroyed the Marriott Hotel in the capital Islamabad on Sep. 20, that some analysts termed Pakistans 9/11, pales in comparison to the events in Mumbai that have claimed over 155 lives already, that many are now calling Indias 9/11. 

A group of at least 25 men armed with assault rifles and handgrenades attacked 10 sites in Mumbai and then barricaded themselves inside two of the city's finest luxury hotels, the heritage Taj Mahal and the Oberoi Trident, as well as a building housing a Jewish centre. 

By the time commando squads flushed out the buildings, 155 people lay dead, among them 22 foreigners. 

There has been widespread condemnation in Pakistan against the violence in Mumbai, from ordinary people and non-government organisations as well as from the Pakistan government which has offered "complete cooperation" and support to India to fight the menace. 

The Mumbai attacks, hitting in the midst of the fifth round of the ongoing composite dialogue between India and Pakistan, are likely to have wide-ranging repercussions for India and Pakistan relations and for the international community at large. 

Analysts note that such attacks tend to take place whenever the South Asian neighbours are engaged in talks and peace initiatives. Pakistan Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi had barely started his four-day visit to New Delhi to review the dialogue process when the attacks took place. 

Pakistan and India tend to blame each other for terrorist activities within their borders, although over the past year they have been less quick to point fingers. This time too, New Delhi did not immediately blame Pakistan, but later claimed to have arrested a militant with Pakistani links. The Pakistan government has strongly denied involvement. 

Commentators in Pakistan point to the huge intelligence failure in India to detect the amassing of arms and training that have enabled such a large number of militants to hold Mumbai hostage for over two days now. They also criticise New Delhis apparent reluctance to look within Indias own borders at its various indigenous insurgencies. 

"All of Indias intelligence agencies have failed," comments Farrukh Saleem, who heads the Centre for Research and Security Studies, an independent think tank in Islamabad, "The most critical element in their collective failure is their overwhelming focus on Pakistan-based militant groups." 

He believes that the intensity of this focus has allowed Indias home-grown militant entities "to spread like wildfire" that, according to South Asia Terrorism Portal, afflicts at least 231 of Indias 608 districts. 

These insurgent and terrorist movements include three distinct types, "left-wing extremist, separatist and religious", wrote Saleem in a front page analysis in daily The News on Nov. 28. "In 2006, a total of 2,765 Indians died in terrorism-related violence (that same year, 1,471 Pakistanis died similarly)." 

Another analyst, who declining to be named, suggests that South Asian countries band together for joint military operations in the areas known to be breeding grounds for militancy against the guerrilla groups operating in different areas in the region. 

In New Delhi, Qureshi stressed that India and Pakistan are both victims of terrorism. He said there was a need to strengthen the Joint Anti-Terror Mechanism and "revisit our strategies for peace and security of the region." 

"Terrorism is a global phenomenon. We in Pakistan deal with it on a daily basis," Qureshi said. "We will have to join all our resources to fight the menace." 

In an unprecedented gesture, Islamabad agreed to send its intelligence chief Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shujaa Pasha, the new director general of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) to India at Prime Minister Manmohan Singhs request. 

Pakistans civilian government in another groundbreaking move has recently disbanded the political wing of the ISI, often blamed for fomenting political trouble in the country and abroad. 

"I feel a great fear that (the Mumbai violence) will adversely affect Pakistan and India relations," prominent Karachi-based feminist poet and writer Attiya Daud told IPS. "I cant say whether Pakistan is involved or not, but whoever is involved, it is not the ordinary people of Pakistan, like myself, or my daughters. We are with our Indian brothers and sisters in their pain and sorrow." 

Daud said she is still in shock from the events in Mumbai, a city she has often visited. "Such a beautiful city, so many peoples livelihoods and so much art and culture associated with it It is so painful to see what is happening there. I watch the television coverage and remember standing at one of those spots watching street theatre..." 

Others, like Karachi-based businessman Tahir Siddiqui, believe that events in Mumbai will force greater cooperation not only between India and Pakistan but also between other countries engaged in combating terrorism. 

"Pakistan cant afford to open any more fronts," Siddiqui told IPS. "We have to cooperate in this fight. I think any support within Pakistan to militants will decrease significantly now, including in Kashmir." 

He added that the situation in Mumbai is "basically the symptom of a larger problem  the imperialist worlds continuing support to dictatorial regimes across the Muslim world, from Indonesia to Morocco. This lack of democracy marginalises people and holds back development. This is a wake-up call to address these issues." 

On a personal level, what can citizens do? Resist fear! advocated Islamabad-based peace activist Shahid Fiaz in an email to friends in India and Pakistan. "I know how it feels when your cities are attacked. After the Marriot Hotel bombing and continued suicide bombings around the country, people go out less - markets and restaurants have a deserted look." 

Fiaz, who is on the National Council of the Pakistan-India Peoples Forum for Peace and Democracy (PIPFPD), the largest people-to-people initiative between the two countries, told IPS that fear is what the terrorists want to achieve. "We need to come out and resist and tell terrorists that these are our cities, we own our cities and we are not scared!" 

"We in Pakistan understand and share the pain, anger and grief of the people of India, as we are also victims of terrorism including daily suicide bombings in one part of the country or the other," said Iqbal Haider, co-chairman of the independent Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP) and a former federal minister for law and human rights. 

"Instead of accusing each other, which will only help the real terrorists, the need of the hour is unity and understanding among the people of our region. We need to make concerted efforts to defeat the nefarious aims of these terrorists and eradicate these extremist religious militants or mafias from every nook and corner of South Asia." 

In the final analysis, what is certain is that there will be no progress towards peace without determined political will.

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## Always Neutral

Asim Aquil said:


> ISPR said they are yet to decide whether or not to send him...
> 
> Where's all your "summoning" now?
> 
> That is where your hubris will get you. You're dependent upon us, not the other way round.



All western news agencies and your Foreign Minister have confirmed it. I think its a mutual decision maybe pressurised by UK and US discreetly.

Regards


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## Awesome

Always Neutral said:


> I think its a positive and ground breaking move on part of both Pakistan and India,
> 
> Most Western Analyst say that its very unlikely that the Pakistan Govt or ISI will involve itself in killing Israeli, US, UK or Japanese citizens.
> 
> That would be the last nail in their precarious financial situation. However these people getting training, comming from Karachi or being guided by LET is a very open possiblity.
> 
> Since the FBI, Scotland Yard and MOSSAD have openly joined the investitigations the ISI Chief's comming here would be good since the evidence will be neutral and un-doctered.
> 
> The only drawback is that if the captured terrorists and the the ones killed are traced to Pakistan. This will be damning and one must not forget while Pakistani egos (especially on this forum) will be bruised if India demanded something, Pakistan cannot offend USA, UK, Germany and Japan whose citizens died.
> 
> Lets wait and watch.
> 
> Regards


The problem is Indians have started to say "We've summoned the ISI chief and he will be answerable to us". Who knows they might just kill him in India.

Indians aren't behaving responsibly which is leading to Pakistanis to say that maybe Indian investigators should come and meet the ISI chief in Pakistan. It was a goodwill gesture which unless the President himself intervenes now, will not happen. The ISI still reports to the Army which reports to the President. The PM had promised to send the ISI chief there.


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## Kasrkin

> Like Mr. Powell begged Musharraf with the "with us or against us" request?



Some habits die hard I guess, again with the completely pointless topic change. India is not a bloody super-power, Pakistan has fought India numerous times before and India itself has employed these 'underhand' terrorist tactics against Pakistan (with very bloody results) which it is accusing us of today...no need to be so indignant. No need to be so damn superior either...You cant give Pakistan the "with us or against us" speech because we have been against your blind ambitions all along and that wont change...so stop being delusional and think of something original for once.

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## Awesome

Always Neutral said:


> All western news agencies and your Foreign Minister have confirmed it. I think its a mutual decision maybe pressurised by UK and US discreetly.
> 
> Regards


Well I want him to go there, he's a talented guy. He can take the Indian allegations on.

But Indians are trying real hard to get his visit canceled.


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## Munir

Western agencies just copy paste thanks to the many Indian sources. Just ask people that have knowledge, They say pretty clear that it is surely an Indian problem. Pakistan has the same problen and if Indians wants to act stupid then it will lead to destable Pakistan, destable region and ultimately total destruction... Mr Singh should have used his brains before acting this stupid. Maybe a normal reaction for an average farmer but someone that leads more then a billion should know a lot better.

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## indiapakistanfriendship

> ISPR said they are yet to decide whether or not to send him...
> 
> Where's all your "summoning" now?
> 
> That is where your hubris will get you. .



Whatever.. Its your opinion... Yup your ISI chief was summoned. Whether your nations false pride tops or rationale tops is upto you as a nation to decide. I for one am sure that you don't have a choice at this moment. For Petes sake instead of false pride, see the positive side. Your ISI chief's visit will help clear a lot of air maybe prevent a potential conflict. I sure this is somethin worth coming



> You're dependent upon us, not the other way round.



Nope... actually its you who are dependent on us, wheather to watch troops amassing at your borders with an already failing economy or clear air and cooperate. The government for sure sell the war. Finally is Kashmir (The only flashpoint between us) and lack of clarity due to false pride worth Nuking ourselves.
IPF


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## Vinod2070

Kasrkin said:


> Some habits die hard I guess, again with the completely pointless topic change. India is not a bloody super-power, Pakistan has fought India numerous times before and India itself has employed these 'underhand' terrorist tactics against Pakistan (with very bloody results) which it is accusing us of today...no need to be so indignant. No need to be so damn superior either...You cant give Pakistan the "with us or against us" speech because we have been against your blind ambitions all along and that wont change...so stop being delusional and think of something original for once.



Exactly. There is no begging from either side.

If you feel indignant with some facts here, see the post that triggered it. It was not even a fact.


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## Always Neutral

Asim Aquil said:


> The problem is Indians have started to say "We've summoned the ISI chief and he will be answerable to us". Who knows they might just kill him in India.
> 
> Indians aren't behaving responsibly which is leading to Pakistanis to say that maybe Indian investigators should come and meet the ISI chief in Pakistan. It was a goodwill gesture which unless the President himself intervenes now, will not happen. The ISI still reports to the Army which reports to the President. The PM had promised to send the ISI chief there.



AA,

I agree he has not been summoned but he will have to go for one and only one reason ie UK, US and Japanese citizens have died. Your Army Chief will have to mount a coup or send him and in that there are no two choices. Just wait and watch. FBI and UK teams have already been sent. The matter that Kiyani is onboard is because otherwise you have sent your FIA chief.

Regards


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## Nihat

> A report from USA reads thus:
> US intelligence expert says Patil is incompetent
> Aziz Haniffa in Washington, DC November 28, 2008 11:28 IST
> Last Updated: November 28, 2008 11:29 IST
> Walter Andersen, a former senior Administration official, who headed up the State Department's South Asia Division of the Intelligence and Research Bureau has said the Mumbai terrorist attacks showed clearly a failure of India's intelligence and security apparatus and also the utter incompetence of Home Minister Shivraj Patil .
> 
> "You have a totally incompetent home minister, and why he isn't removed is beyond me," he said, "He really doesn't know how to get the bureaucracy organised to have some sort of coordinated planning." He acknowledged that in the wake of reports that the terrorists had set up control rooms in the two hotels ahead of time, showed that "this was a sophisticated, well planned set up. This is something that takes months of planning."



...........


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## Flintlock

The PM has promised - he cannot go back on his word.

I guess the Pakistani establishment is now trying to save face by saying that they are still considering the request. 

The ISI chief will definitely be coming to India.


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## Imran Khan

i will say he shuld never go if there is no respect i meet here indian guys wich even don't know english there media show them like we hand over DG ISI .the uneducated indian guys also think that he is crimnal and he become for face charges in india .if people wana clear see indian tv channels.


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## Always Neutral

Munir said:


> Western agencies just copy paste thanks to the many Indian sources. Just ask people that have knowledge, They say pretty clear that it is surely an Indian problem. Pakistan has the same problen and if Indians wants to act stupid then it will lead to destable Pakistan, destable region and ultimately total destruction... Mr Singh should have used his brains before acting this stupid. Maybe a normal reaction for an average farmer but someone that leads more then a billion should know a lot better.



So BBC, CNN cuts and paste ? Does your foreign Minister cut and paste ? Does your PM cut and paste ?

Its good for Pakistan that the ISI Chief is going there so that he can first hand see the info alongwith the FBI and Met Police Chief and if it is true go and kick the *** of the idiots back in his country.

We alongwith US and Japan don't like our citizens killed.

Regards


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## Kasrkin

> Nope... actually its you who are dependent on us, wheather to watch troops amassing at your borders with an already failing economy or clear air and cooperate.



Their bitterness and desperation is becoming quite palpable, dont you think? 



> Yup your ISI chief was summoned. Whether your nations false pride tops or rationale tops is upto you as a nation to decide. I for one am sure that you don't have a choice at this moment.



Yes ofcourse, as usual a good will gesture (though a little over done) is taken as a 'serious compulsion' by this particular Indian mind...why? Because India is going to soo kick our arses any time they want if we dont send him...and our Spy Chief as soon as he gets there is likely to say "Okay it was us, you got us...you are too angry...we did not expect this...we are scared of you now. Here are names of the terrorists I sent" LOL. This is just a pathetic PR stunt...designed to comfort the ruffled pride of shallow minds like this one.


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## Imran Khan

Nihat said:


>



boss there is 1000mn english spekers in india ? so many uneducated indians here in ksa for cleaner jobs go check only 100$ per minth salary but prud of india never die

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## PeaceForAll

very very unfortunate... I was glued to the net watching Indian channels - and I havent posted in the thread so far and I guess I am writing some stuff which was already written - but I guess they are making comments of "Pakistan's hand suspected and they have evidence of it" At first, I felt it was a joke.. but then they claim to have got Greandes that have Pak Ordnance symbols on it. 

Now this is going to be serious! if this was the case then may be the terrorist orgs in Pak have found ways to obtain Pak ordnance stuff itself!!


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## Vinod2070

Munir said:


> I do not think Vinod, Flintlock and indiaPakistanfriendship contribute in any post. They hardly deliver fact or logic and blaim opponents...



To tell you frankly, the feelings are mutual.

Reinforced by the posts in this thread and the insecure rants in the space thread about Chandrayan.


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## Patriot

Nihat said:


>


He means indians guys who he have met locally in SA not on this forums so theres no need to laugh..


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## Flintlock

Munir said:


> I do not think Vinod, Flintlock and indiaPakistanfriendship contribute in any post. They hardly deliver fact or logic and blaim opponents...



You just blamed 3 opponents sir. 

This is what I mean when I talk about different standards.


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## Keysersoze

Guys from now on in any retarded or off topic posts will be receiving warnings and bans. I am going through pages and pages of this stuff and have a backlog a mile long to go through, and the next idiot who posts crap will receive my wrath!

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## Nihat

saadahmed said:


> See my post above...
> Anyway i think this indianpakistanfriendship dude should be banned...Hes overeacting.



Relax - Mods seem very competant people to me , they'll cut out the flab when they see any


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## Kasrkin

> The PM has promised - he cannot go back on his word.



Yeah I completely agree, he might drop by in a couple of years or something...promise is a promise after all. Other than that I hardly think he would like to come there right now and instruct you guys on how to run a proper investigation and plug obvious holes in your security apparatus (despite that being an apparent need).

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## PeaceForAll

Just heard Indian news channel NDTV saying "Indian PM calls Pak Chief and says he has evidence anddemands ISI cheif be sent to India - Pakistan Agrees "

And just now watching Indian NSG commado's and Marine Commando's speeches on their attack plans.. will be back with it in 2 min


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## Vinod2070

Kasrkin said:


> Yeah I completely agree, he might drop by in a couple of years or something...promise is a promise after all. Other than that I hardly think he would like to come there right now and instruct you guys on how to run a proper investigation and plug obvious holes in your security apparatus (despite that being an apparent need).



You serious about that?

You really think ISI is competent and that shows?


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## PeaceForAll

I do not know exactly how many Indian troops were involved in the attack, but they were definitely more than 100.. and the number of terrorists were abt 10... Its such a planned attack, I was wondering how can they get such sort of training, These people just cannot be any terrorists - they definitely are some really trained ones- equivalent to commandos or something.

the terrorists had:
7 credit cards,
National ID card of mauritian govt,
Magazines
Dry fruits for survival
Dollars (some few hundreds)

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## Kasrkin

Without doubt, but thats besides my point ofcourse...


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## Always Neutral

Kasrkin said:


> Yeah I completely agree, he might drop by in a couple of years or something...promise is a promise after all. Other than that I hardly think he would like to come there right now and instruct you guys on how to run a proper investigation and plug obvious holes in your security apparatus (despite that being an apparent need).



Even if you don't like your ISI Chief visiting India it would have been ok if only Indian citizens had died but now our citizens, US, Japanese etc have also died so you Chief will have to go there otherwise your PM will look stupid.

Regards


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## dr.umer

Indians are trying to show their fake superiority by saying ISI Chief is being "summoned" to India. This attitude of them is not going to lead them anywhere close to peace and calm as they will receive BS from other members and it's for sure. Let's act like grown ups here at least as there are number of guests visiting this site all the time. 

IMO, it is not necessary for ISI Chief to go India as Pakistan's FM is already there. He can meet with Indian officials and they can discuss with him the issue first. If some points remain unaddressed, FM can ask ISI to brief him and that's how it should go about. ISI is not superior to GOP and part of GOP's strength. ISI Chief is not a political figure to smile in front of press cameras and give statements in India. 

By sending ISI Chief to India we are kind of sending a message that ISI is different than GOP. India certainly needs help and Pakistan should provide it but there are certain ways to go about it. Why don't Indian officials come to Pakistan to share information? What is holding them back? One way or another this matter needs to be resolved as it is in best interest of both the nations.

Even if ISI Chief or any other official visits India than it is not how it looks like. No one is going to through papers on table in from of him and ask him how it happened. 

Pakistan has long experience of dealing with terror groups now and India can get lot of help in investigation of Mumbai attacks. ISI can provide valuable information about terror groups it is handling in Pakistan and from abroad, their tactics, profiles, operation methods, moves, ways of communication and lot of other stuff. Similarly, RAW will provide what they have found so far and then both of these agencies will go for "match". Even if some "match" is found, it would be extremely difficult to find "Pakistan link". Because terror outfits more or less operate in same ways in all regions. We in Pakistan have experience of suicide attacks and not a single incident of what happened in Mumbai has occurred so far in Pakistan. It looks more like AQ attack few years back in Saudi Arabia or Chechnya's attack in Russia where innocent people were kept hostages. But let&#8217;s see what comes after investigations.

I don't know if Indian members will believe it or not but people of Pakistan stand with you in this hour of sorrow. It would be absurd to believe that GOP is involved as Pakistan is already suffering from terrorism. 

So every one please chill, relax and instead of bashing each other lets make things constructive here.

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## indiapakistanfriendship

> See my post above...
> Anyway i think this indianpakistanfriendship dude should be banned...Hes overeacting.



Ok let me sum up my postings in this entire discussion.

1. Commenting on professionals(Indian commandoes) like we are 'one' does not serve purpose as we(those who critisized) for one are not there biting the bullets.
2.ISI Chief's visit ti India will bring in clarity over who is responsible.
3. I do not believe Pak government is directly responsible for this attack and it does not sound rationale too. However people of Pakistani origin as involved as MMS says.
4. Statements from MMS, NSA and Army GHQ are not jokes and are ment to be serous. They don't mince words.
5. I don't understand as o what pride is lost in sending ISI chief to India.
6. Weather this false pride is worth misundertanding and the consequences arising out of misunderstanding is upto Pakistan to Judge.

If my above ideas don't sound rationale and sane, i don't know what does. rEALISM DOES SUCK. Frankly coming from you I don't care.

IPF


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## Always Neutral

Indian Govt. suspends CNN licence for live video broadcasts ? Wonder what they showed ? Probably they did not like the world seeing the drunken Indian men trying to molest and feel up the CNN lady journalist ?

Shame Shame !

Regards

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## Nihat

Always Neutral said:


> Indian Govt. suspends CNN licence for live video broadcasts ? Wonder what they showed ? Probably they did not like the world seeing the drunken Indian men trying to molest and feel up the CNN lady journalist ?
> 
> Shame Shame !
> 
> Regards



It's related to Broadcast License Expiry , CNN probably does not want to tread on the wrong side of the Law.


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## PeaceForAll

Always Neutral said:


> *Indian Govt. suspends CNN licence for live video broadcasts *? Wonder what they showed ? Probably they did not like the world seeing the drunken Indian men trying to molest and feel up the CNN lady journalist ?
> 
> Shame Shame !
> 
> Regards



I am not sure if Indian govt did really suspend CNN broadcasts - surely almost every Indian channel is showing live video broadcast of the episode - they will have to ban all of them - so I guess CNN thing is got to do with something different


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## PeaceForAll

coming back to the subject of the terrorists' training. They surely have undergone tremendous training and also have the backing of a lot of intelligence - signs of evolution of the terrorists?


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## dr.umer

DAWN TV Reporting now.

*ISI representative will be going to India instead of DG to help in investigations. *


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## Imran Khan

dr.umer said:


> DAWN TV Reporting now.
> 
> *ISI representative will be going to India instead of DG to help in investigations. *



thats what people like its now a pablic gov.who can we send our DG there


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## jeypore

Always Neutral said:


> Indian Govt. suspends CNN licence for live video broadcasts ? Wonder what they showed ? Probably they did not like the world seeing the drunken Indian men trying to molest and feel up the CNN lady journalist ?
> 
> Shame Shame !
> 
> Regards




CNN, the most liberal news broadcasting in the world, and very supportive of terrorism. Just ask any American.


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## Always Neutral

PeaceForAll said:


> I am not sure if Indian govt did really suspend CNN broadcasts - surely almost every Indian channel is showing live video broadcast of the episode - they will have to ban all of them - so I guess CNN thing is got to do with something different



Dear Guys,

CNN is not some mom and pop off licence shop who forgot about it ! Till last night they were happily broadcasting and then showed a clip of 10 drunken men surrounding her pushing each other into her and finally grabbing her and pushing the camera man and lights down. If you see the clip you will feel ashamed and the cops did nothing and today the licence expired ?

Ha ha 

Regards


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## Patriot

Always Neutral said:


> Dear Guys,
> 
> CNN is not some mom and pop off licence shop who forgot about it ! Till last night they were happily broadcasting and then showed a clip of 10 drunken men surrounding her pushing each other into her and finally grabbing her and pushing the camera man and lights down. If you see the clip you will feel ashamed and the cops did nothing and today the licence expired ?
> 
> Ha ha
> 
> Regards


Can you post the link, AM?I want to see it..
Thanks


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## Nihat

yeah , pls post the link


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## PeaceForAll

Always Neutral said:


> Dear Guys,
> 
> CNN is not some mom and pop off licence shop who forgot about it ! Till last night they were happily broadcasting and then showed a clip of 10 drunken men surrounding her pushing each other into her and finally grabbing her and pushing the camera man and lights down. If you see the clip you will feel ashamed and the cops did nothing and today the licence expired ?
> 
> Ha ha
> 
> Regards



Please open another thread on it, cant u see the topic?? Or are u so insensitive that you want to go on blaming some police people when there are so many police ppl who lost their lives?

If this was your country and if this was your own people being killed, will u like people ranting like this...


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## jeypore

"Sending the ISI chief to India is a clear olive branch from Pakistan and indicates just how seriously it is taking India's anger," said Cyril Almeida, an editor at Dawn, an English-language daily newspaper.

"It is an extraordinary step and indicates two things," Almeida said. "One, the Pakistan military is confident that no direct links will be revealed by India, and, two, Pakistan is keen to avoid a repeat of the near-war situation following the attacks on the Indian Parliament in December 2001."

He added: "It seems the military and civilian government have realized that we have too much on our plate dealing with the tribal areas and terrorism in Pakistan proper to get involved in a dangerous slanging match with India over terrorism."

Salman Masood contributed reporting from Islamabad.

Intelligence aides in U.S. point to Kashmiri militants - International Herald Tribune


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## Always Neutral

Nihat said:


> yeah , pls post the link




Saw it on CNN last night and her name is Miss Sidner. 

Regards


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## Always Neutral

PeaceForAll said:


> Please open another thread on it, cant u see the topic?? Or are u so insensitive that you want to go on blaming some police people when there are so many police ppl who lost their lives?
> 
> If this was your country and if this was your own people being killed, will u like people ranting like this...



What crap are you talking. I just mentioned about the CNN issue because it just came on CNN live.

Regards


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## PeaceForAll

Always Neutral said:


> What crap are you talking. I just mentioned about the CNN issue because it just came on CNN live.
> 
> Regards



relax.. the topic is not about whats on CNN.. its about mumbai siege..

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## Always Neutral

PeaceForAll said:


> relax.. the topic is not about whats on CNN.. its about mumbai siege..



Well they were trying to broadcast about the Bombay Siege ! Please remember CNN is watched world wide so there has to be reason for this unsaid wrap on the knuckles.

Regards


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## Awesome

dr.umer said:


> DAWN TV Reporting now.
> 
> *ISI representative will be going to India instead of DG to help in investigations. *


Sad, but it had to happen given the Indian attitude. 

It could've been a ground breaking step forward. But Indian hubris had to be answered back. I hope when Shuja Pasha does go a week or so later when the thing has gotten to be a little old.

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## Anurag

*Sir,

We don't hate eachother. As a matter of fact we have a lot in comon, we love eachother food, music, movies and drama's, fashion and even share a few languages with eachother.

But the rivallery is there, governments on both sides often use false propaganda for vote banking and don't mis an opportunity to degrade eachother at international level...
Key issue is Kashmir, as long as the dispute is running I'm affraid we'll never be good friends or even good neighbors...

-Ne0*

100&#37; agreed


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## Kharian_Beast

Either India is going to be really safe in the coming months or really dangerous. I put my money on dangerous. Once the hornets nest will be agitated do not expect conventional Indian forces to "Sri Lanka" their way through this problem. They need international support most importantly from Pakistan. Time has come for India to face up to its problems, or keep turning a blind face and build 5 star hotels in a city of 13 million where 6 million are well below poverty line and 300,000 Muslims have been forced out do to ethnic conflict, all in a day's work in the world's largest Democra-sham.

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## Bull

Asim Aquil said:


> Now slowly Indians are having to bite their tongue and eat their words! Slowly they realize that they can't keep pinning this on Pakistan.
> 
> They were Indians!
> 
> The terrorists are Indians, admit already!



Wrong. There were calls made to Pakistan, Let Commander to be specific. 

Eating words, nobody knows better than Pakistanis.


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## Awesome

Bull said:


> Wrong. There were calls made to Pakistan, Let Commander to be specific.
> 
> Eating words, nobody knows better than Pakistanis.


There is a strong possibility that there were a very large number of terrorists involved. Not just 5-10. More like 100.

Which is why they held on for so long.

No way 5 guys can hold the Taj for so long. IA is BSing away to make it look like some supermen came from some highly trained place in Pakistan.

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## Keysersoze

Where they? Given the accusation after Gujarat train incident forgive me if i don't believe the "instant investigation".
Funny the Indian police seem to be the most efficient in the world ............Oh BTW there were claims that some of the people were from The UK and that was shown to be nonsense....what else could be?


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## Keysersoze

Asim Aquil said:


> There is a strong possibility that there were a very large number of terrorists involved. Not just 5-10. More like 100.
> 
> Which is why they held on for so long.
> 
> No way 5 guys can hold the Taj for so long. IA is BSing away to make it look like some supermen came from some highly trained place in Pakistan.



Naah Asim I think they were just really Ham handed in their reactions....poorly handled.


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## Flintlock

*
Mumbai attacks: Investigation focuses on Pakistan**
Following the atrocity in Bombay, the focus is now on the area fuelling the Islamist jihad.
*

By Isambard Wilkinson in Peshawar
Last Updated: 8:47PM GMT 28 Nov 2008
Taliban fighters gather for the funeral of a comrade in Pakistan in April
Have weapons, will travel: Taliban fighters gather for the funeral of a comrade in Pakistan in April Photo: AFP

As the body count rises, and the full horror is revealed in the accounts of traumatised survivors and the photographs of the dead strewn around Bombay's (Mumbai's) tourist venues, the investigation into the atrocity is at full pelt.
*
Already a disturbing theme is emerging: that two of the world's most bitter and intractable conflicts, in Afghanistan and Kashmir, could be merging into one.
*
According to Indian authorities,* the trail of the gunmen who ran riot in the streets and hotels leads back to the wild terrain of Pakistan's tribal border areas, from where groups linked to al-Qaeda plot a global jihad.*

The connection is strengthened by the fact that the terrorists singled out British and American citizens as victims for their slaughter, and by reports that the attackers included "British citizens of Pakistani origin", most probably trained in the tribal areas.

But other significant factors are in play, too. *In their propaganda, the terrorists named the territorial dispute over Kashmir &#8211; for which Pakistan and India have twice gone to war &#8211; as a cause of their actions, along with grievances over the treatment of India's Muslims by the Hindu majority.*

This juxtaposition of causes is no surprise to observers of the region. India and Pakistan have long used factions within Afghanistan as proxies in their long dispute over Kashmir.

Earlier this year, US intelligence officials accused the higher echelons of the Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence organisation (ISI) of using jihadis to orchestrate a bloody terrorist attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul.

Pakistan, in turn, is suspicious of India's growing influence in Afghanistan, accusing its old foe of supplying arms and money to the Taliban, and to separatists within Pakistan itself.

There is a vicious irony here. It was Pakistan that first sponsored the Taliban, along with other terrorist groups, operating in Indian-held Kashmir. Yet now it finds itself endangered by the very groups it once supported.

Pakistan's tribal areas have become a nexus for arms and money, a playground for the world's intelligence agencies and for the jihadist groups they both combat and sponsor.

America, in particular, is fighting what is essentially an undeclared war here, one which will only increase in intensity as its attention shifts from Iraq under incoming president Barack Obama.

The tribal area, once cherished by British colonial administrators for its "fiercely independent" Pathan tribesmen, is a series of endless mountainous ramparts cut by hidden valleys and plateaus.

High, fortress-like, mud-walled compounds dot valleys that vary from arid to oases of fruit trees and fields.

Their inhabitants are often engaged in centuries-old feuds, and subsist on trade, smuggling, kidnapping and extracting the maximum price from ever-shifting political allegiances.

Yesterday, near the town of Jamrud, pick-up trucks with white Islamic pendants fluttering on their bonnets ferried posses of long-haired, heavily armed militants, along the main artery of the Khyber Pass.

They belonged to a faction of Islamic warriors fighting against the dominant Taliban chief of the area, Baitullah Mehsud.

"They are with us. At least for now," said Tariq Hayat, the Pakistani government's representative for the Khyber area. He is a civil servant with nominally god-like powers, whose bodyguards are armed with rocket launchers.

He was there to inspect pickets he had set up to protect convoys transporting supplies to coalition forces in Afghanistan, after 12 lorries, whose cargo included four Humvees, were hijacked this month.

In the areas they control, the militants, who began their campaigns under the guise of "social reform", have enforced a regime of fear, beheading suspected informers, stoning women and committing acts of brutality against Pakistani security forces.

On a recent visit, militants attacked as journalists were being shown the compounds captured by the Pakistani army. Cobra helicopters had to lash down heavy rounds to keep them at bay.

Mr Hayat claims that most militants are "criminals", funded by India. He cites intelligence photographs he says he saw in 2005 of an Afghan leaving an Indian consulate with a large bag. Another photograph showed the man handing the same bag to Baitullah Mehsud. Conspiracy theories rule on the frontier.

The resulting chaos is not just a problem for Pakistan. "The tribal areas are an ungoverned space that make Pakistan a threat to global security," says a senior Western military intelligence official in Islamabad.

As a result, America is taking matters into its own hands. A week ago, a British al-Qaeda suspect, Rashid Rauf, was reportedly killed alongside three others in a US missile strike in North Waziristan where he sought refuge after escaping from custody.

There have been at least 20 such US missile strikes in the last three months, reflecting American impatience over militants from Pakistan fuelling the insurgency in Afghanistan.

The CIA has monitoring stations within the Pakistani tribal areas and along the eastern Afghan border, and a large network of tribal informers.

Last month the first missile strike outside of the tribal areas occurred in Bannu district, while this week tribesmen in North and South Waziristan were reported to have fired on Predator drones hovering above.

On a recent visit to Pakistan, the US central command chief, Gen David Petraeus, explained away the missile strikes, claiming that America is doing Pakistan a favour.

His words were backed by General James Conway, the head of the Marine Corps, who told the Wall Street Journal this week; "Iraq is now a rearguard action on the part of al-Qaeda. They have changed their strategic focus not to Afghanistan but to Pakistan, because Pakistan is the closest place where you have the nexus of terrorism and nuclear weapons."

Officials say that there is a tacit understanding between the US and Pakistani militaries to allow the missile strikes. But the protests from the Pakistan People's Party, which won the recent election, are growing ever louder.

The PPP fears not just a backlash within the tribal area, but losing its hold on power in the country as a whole: most Pakistanis are broadly anti-American, and strongly opposed to violations of their sovereignty.

A map published by a Right-wing American journal recently, which depicted the region broken down into smaller ethnic states, led to widespread claims that the US wants to break Pakistan apart.

This sense of national insecurity has been heightened by a spate of kidnappings and assassinations, particularly in Peshawar, capital of the North-West Frontier province.

Two weeks ago, a senior American aid worker was shot dead along with his driver. The next day, militants kidnapped a junior Iranian diplomat after killing his police escort.

A botched American commando raid in September in South Waziristan also inflamed public opinion against Washington, and set back the government's efforts to galvanise what President Asif Zardari has tried to sell as "Pakistan's war".

The Pakistani army says that it also fears that US missile attacks will draw it into too many battles, in notoriously difficult terrain.

One Taliban commander said last week that, if there are more missile strikes, he will pull out of a peace deal with Pakistan's military that has held since 2006. "Pakistan is directly involved in aiding America to carry out these attacks," said a spokesman for Hafiz Gul Bahadur.

Despite its eagerness to keep such figures onside, Pakistan is stepping up its efforts in other areas.

Under new army chief, Ashfaq Kiyani, its forces are engaged in fierce fighting against militants in the tribal areas of Bajaur and Mohmand and the neighbouring district of Swat.

When General Kiyani was head of the ISI a year ago, he briefed foreign ambassadors on his attempts to clamp down on the rogue agents who had supported terrorists and jihadis in the past.

But, according to American and British officials, the massacre in Bombay (Mumbai) represents a devastating setback, both to Pakistani/Indian relations and to the wider war on terror.

Barack Obama had hoped to persuaded Pakistan to concentrate its gaze to the west, on Afghanistan, rather than east, on Kashmir. Instead, he may find that he &#8211; and his allies &#8211; are waging a war on two fronts.

Mumbai attacks: Investigation focuses on Pakistan - Telegraph


----------



## Flintlock

*U.S. Intelligence Focuses on Pakistani Group*

By MARK MAZZETTI
Published: November 28, 2008

WASHINGTON  American intelligence and counterterrorism officials said Friday there was *mounting evidence that a Pakistani militant group based in Kashmir, most likely Lashkar-e-Taiba, was responsible for the deadly attacks in Mumbai.*

The American officials cautioned that they had reached no hard conclusions about who was responsible for the operation, nor on how it had been planned and carried out. Nevertheless, they said that evidence gathered over the past two days has pointed to a role f*or Lashkar-e-Taiba, or possibly another Pakistani group focused on Kashmir, Jaish-e-Muhammad.*

The American officials insisted on anonymity in describing their current thinking and declined to discuss the intelligence information that they said pointed to Kashmiri militants.

Lashkar-e-Taiba on Thursday denied any responsibility for the terrorist strikes. The group is thought by American intelligence agencies to have received some training and logistical support in the past from Pakistans powerful spy service, the Inter-Services Intelligence agency, or ISI, but American officials said Friday that there was no evidence that the Pakistani government had any role in the Mumbai attacks.

American and Indian officials for years have blamed Lashkar-e-Taiba for a campaign of violence against high-profile targets throughout India, including the December 2001 attack on the Indian Parliament building in New Delhi and an August 2007 strike at an amusement park in Hyderabad.

At times, Indian officials have also said that Jaish-e-Muhammad was responsible for the 2001 attack on the Parliament building.

A State Department report issued this year called Lashkar-e-Taiba one of the largest and most proficient of the Kashmiri-focused militant groups. The report said that the group drew funding in part from Pakistani expatriate communities in the Middle East, despite the freezing of its assets by the United States and Pakistan in 2002, after the attack on the Indian Parliament.

The report said that the actual size of the group was unknown, but estimated its strength at several thousand members.

Pakistani officials announced Friday that the head of the ISI, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, would travel to India to assist the Indian government with its investigation of the attacks. If it occurred, the visit would mark a first for an ISI chief.

But by Friday evening, Pakistani officials were suggesting that a lower-level representative of the ISI would make the trop.

An FBI team has also been dispatched to Mumbai to assist with the forensic investigation of the attacks.

Lashkar-e-Taiba has, for the most part, not targeted Westerners in past attacks, as some reports said the attackers in Mumbai did. But one counterterrorism official said Friday that the group has not pursued an exclusively Kashmiri agenda and that the group might certainly go after Westerners to advance a broader goals.

*The official said that there was also strong evidence that Lashkar-e-Taiba had a maritime capability and would definitely have been capable of mounting the sophisticated operation in Mumbai, *which intelligence officials say they believe began when the attackers arrived in the city in small boats.*

American and Indian officials are pursuing the possibility that the attackers arrived off the coast of Mumbai in a larger merchant ship, and then boarded the smaller boats before they launched the attack.*

Even as a Kashmiri connection to the attacks began to emerge Friday, American officials said there were puzzled by some developments of the past two days. *For instance, they said they still know next to nothing about a group called the Deccan Mujahedeen* that has reportedly taken responsibility for the attacks.
*
Terrorism experts have said there is no evidence that the group was involved in past strikes, and speculated that the name was made up by another militant group to mask responsibility for the attacks.*

Pakistan, meanwhile, seemed anxious to defuse the mounting crisis in relations with its neighbor.

The Pakistani foreign minister, Shah Mahmood Qureshi, said that India and his country should join hands to defeat a common enemy, and urged New Delhi not to play politics over the attacks in Mumbai, Reuters reported.

Do not bring politics into this issue, the Pakistani foreign minister told reporters in the Indian town of Ajmer during a four-day visit to India. This is a collective issue. We are facing a common enemy and we should join hands to defeat the enemy.

President Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan called Prime Minister Manmohan Singh of India, Reuters reported, to say he was appalled and shocked by the terrorist attacks. Non-state actors wanted to force upon the governments their own agenda, but they must not be allowed to succeed, he said.

Salman Masood contributed reporting from Islamabad.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/world/asia/29intel.html?_r=1&hp

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## Flintlock

Always Neutral said:


> Well they were trying to broadcast about the Bombay Siege ! Please remember CNN is watched world wide so there has to be reason for this unsaid wrap on the knuckles.
> 
> Regards


*
CNN's License to Broadcast From India Expires*

*In the midst of one of the biggest international stories in months &#8212; the ongoing siege on Mumbai, CNN's license to broadcast live from India has expired. **CNN had applied for and received a 5-day license which began last Monday and expired today. *CNN had a license when the story broke because they were broadcasting a special series on India and business. All foreign broadcasters need to have a license to transmit live from India.

"Live satellite transmission from India has to be approved by the Indian government," CNN spokesperson Nigel Pritchard tells TVNewser. "Unfortunately, the officials are not extending CNN's live transmission license."

CNN/U.S. and CNNI can still simulcast the transmissions from their partner CNN IBN. Pritchard says the network will also "continue to have correspondents at the Taj Hotel and other locations in Mumbai and will be reporting from the various scenes on the latest news via phone."

CNN's License to Broadcast From India Expires - mediabistro.com: TVNewser

_______________________________________________________
*
Yes Mr. Neutral - had your fun?*


----------



## was

LTTE provides ideas for terror attacks like Mumbai: Lanka
28 Nov 2008, 1745 hrs IST, PTI
Print Email Discuss Share Save Comment Text:
COLOMBO: Condemning the deadly terror strike in Mumbai, Sri Lankan foreign minister Rohitha Bogollagama on Friday said militant groups such as
LTTE provide ideas and methodology for undertaking such attacks.

"Methodology and well-coordinated precision of these savage attacks are reminiscent of the terror tactics employed by the LTTE against innocent civilians and vital infrastructure in Sri Lanka," Bogollagama told the parliament.

"I have no doubt in my mind that the terrorist groups the world over, study and mimic the modus operandi of each other and to cause maximum death and destruction," he said.

"We in Sri Lanka are all too familiar with the stark reality of the cruel hand of LTTE terrorism which has been responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians over the last 25 years," the minister told the house.

Condemning the strike in Mumbai, the minister said that President Mahinda Rajapaksa's statement had called for "the urgent need for concerted action by all countries to eradicate terrorism, wherever it is and whoever the leaders and manipulators of such violence may be."

He also welcomed US President-elect Barack Obama's message, wherein he had stated "the United States must continue to strengthen our partnerships with India and nations around the world to root out and destroy terrorist networks".


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## Always Neutral

Flintlock said:


> *
> CNN's License to Broadcast From India Expires*
> 
> * "Unfortunately, the officials are not extending CNN's live transmission license."
> 
> CNN's License to Broadcast From India Expires - mediabistro.com: TVNewser
> 
> _______________________________________________________
> 
> Yes Mr. Neutral - had your fun?*


*


Care to answer that after all CNN is not PTV ? I watched CNN till last night and than after Sarah Sidner incident suddenly there is no live transmission.

Regards*


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## PeaceForAll

I have a hunch the terrorists are being helped by someone inside the taj hotel. They can know the design and and the layout of the taj hotel but to do that for such a long time.. requires some inside help too..


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## was

on ndtv they were saying tha they should bomb pakistan in live trasm.
they are spreading hate or they are creating mindset for a war??
very irresponsabily


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## Flintlock

Always Neutral said:


> Care to answer that after all CNN is not PTV ? I watched CNN till last night and than after Sarah Sidner incident suddenly there is no live transmission.
> 
> Regards



It has nothing to do with "Sarah Sidner Incident" or whatever - a lot more "embarassing stuff" has been broadcast on Indian channels. 

We have terrorists speaking live to television channels giving long propaganda speeches, we have television channels giving out operational details simply "warned" and "requested" to "refrain" from revealing details. 

the entire world media is broadcasting live from India for god's sake. You think the "Sarah Sidner" incident was never shown on any other TV Channel?

There is obviously good reason why they are not renewing their license just yet.


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## sunny_aus

Asim Aquil said:


> Sad, but it had to happen given *the Indian attitude*.
> 
> It could've been a ground breaking step forward. But Indian hubris had to be answered back. I hope when Shuja Pasha does go a week or so later when the thing has gotten to be a little old.




Asim, Indian may be saying that ISI did this but even US president straight name Islamabad after 10 years of experience of his presidency and wars


> US President George W. Bush was yesterday drawn directly into the row over Pakistan's notorious ISI spy agency, reportedly saying *it was impossible to share intelligence with Islamabad "because it goes straight to the terrorists".*
> 
> George Bush adds fuel to fire over ISI spy agency | The Australian




And no wonder even if US missiles and aircrafts keep dropping bombs in search of terrorists wanted in US, if not the terrorists of United States then they know they will certainly kill few terrorists


> A fugitive British militant linked to an alleged UK plot to use liquid bombs to blow up transatlantic airliners has been killed in Pakistan, reports say.
> Pakistani media said Rashid Rauf, born in Birmingham, was killed in a US air strike in North Waziristan
> 
> BBC NEWS | South Asia | UK militant 'killed in Pakistan'




Dream Islamic country of Jinnah sahib has reached a level that this is nothing but a &#8220;common sense&#8221; that which country does these terrorists activities anywhere in the world


> CIA director Michael Hayden has warned that every major terrorist threat confronting the world has ties to Pakistan.
> 
> Every major terror threat involves Pakistan: CIA -DAWN - Top Stories; November 15, 2008




Infact, if we have a look on all the blasts, attacks in Afghan and India, &#8220;Terrorism Industry&#8221; has become the major source of earning for Pakistan which Pakistan doesn&#8217;t want to loose


----------



## Always Neutral

Flintlock said:


> There is obviously good reason why they are not renewing their license just yet.



Either give me THE GOOD REASON or let me make my own conclusion.

Regards

BTW did you see the Sarah Sidner incident or are you just making innane posts.


----------



## Always Neutral

PeaceForAll said:


> I have a hunch the terrorists are being helped by someone inside the taj hotel. They can know the design and and the layout of the taj hotel but to do that for such a long time.. requires some inside help too..



You are right. One of them was working as a Chef in Taj for 10 months and he also killed most of the Kitchen staff.

Regards


----------



## Flintlock

Always Neutral said:


> Either give me THE GOOD REASON or let me make my own conclusion.
> 
> Regards
> 
> BTW did you see the Sarah Sidner incident or are you just making innane posts.



You seem rather quick to jump to conclusions, in spite the fact that nothing has been explained as yet.


----------



## jeypore

Flintlock said:


> It has nothing to do with "Sarah Sidner Incident" or whatever - a lot more "embarassing stuff" has been broadcast on Indian channels.
> 
> We have terrorists speaking live to television channels giving long propaganda speeches, we have television channels giving out operational details simply "warned" and "requested" to "refrain" from revealing details.
> 
> the entire world media is broadcasting live from India for god's sake. You think the "Sarah Sidner" incident was never shown on any other TV Channel?
> 
> There is obviously good reason why they are not renewing their license just yet.




Flint, why are wasting your energy on this issue, let it be, and he has his own conclusion, so be it.


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## Flintlock

This is the incident I presume?
_
There was also an incident where a mob of onlookers, apparently growing outraged at the media coverage of the tragic events unfolding throughout the city, blocked Sara Sidner's camera and effectively forced them to stop reporting for several moments. Sidner later recalled that she wasn't fearful but the crowd had been rather insistent that they stop videotaping._

Sara Sidner Reports from Site of Mumbai Terrorist Attacks - Associated Content

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## Always Neutral

Flintlock said:


> You seem rather quick to jump to conclusions, in spite the fact that nothing has been explained as yet.



I saw the incident and since I watch CNN and I consider it more responsible than Fox or Sky its strange why CNN's licence was not re-newed inspite of the Indian Govt. knowing its world-wide reach.

Till now you have been writing one liners without no substance on this topic care to use your grey cells and tell me why CNN cannot get its licence re-newed or is it they did not pay their bribe ?

Regards

Ps : Once again I ask you did you see the Sarah Sidner groping broadcast ? If not I suggest u lay of on this topic.


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## batmannow

Always Neutral said:


> You are right. One of them was working as a Chef in Taj for 10 months and he also killed most of the Kitchen staff.
> 
> Regards



Always Neutral; sir
how you knew about it!
are you with them, too?


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## Always Neutral

batmannow said:


> Always Neutral; sir
> how you knew about it!
> are you with them, too?



Send me a beer when I am right.


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## TexasJohn

I am watching CNN Live from Bombay right now (17:20 CST). What disruption are you guys speaking of? It was on all last night too!!


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## Always Neutral

TexasJohn said:


> I am watching CNN Live from Bombay right now (17:20 CST). What disruption are you guys speaking of? It was on all last night too!!



You can watch it live but no live video uplink from in front of Taj. Would have posted all the links but it will derail and start a flame war. 

Regards


----------



## HK-47

why do I have a feeling this will go nowhere just like the previous bombings?Have they cleared out the hotels now?dammit how many were there the gunmen and how could have they held out for so long?


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## TexasJohn

Always Neutral said:


> You can watch it live but no live video uplink from in front of Taj. Would have posted all the links but it will derail and start a flame war.
> 
> Regards



I am watching the Taj just now. There was an explosion again 5 minutes ago followed by automatic gunfire. Journos running for cover. Are you sure bud?


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## Always Neutral

TexasJohn said:


> I am watching the Taj just now. There was an explosion again 5 minutes ago followed by automatic gunfire. Journos running for cover. Are you sure bud?



Yes I am. I am watching CNN now they are showing a feed from Star News.

Regards


----------



## Always Neutral

TexasJohn said:


> I am watching the Taj just now. There was an explosion again 5 minutes ago followed by automatic gunfire. Journos running for cover. Are you sure bud?



CNN's License to Broadcast From India Expires

In the midst of one of the biggest international stories in months  the ongoing siege on Mumbai, CNN's license to broadcast live from India has expired. CNN had applied for and received a 5-day license which began last Monday and expired today. CNN had a license when the story broke because they were broadcasting a special series on India and business. All foreign broadcasters need to have a license to transmit live from India.

"Live satellite transmission from India has to be approved by the Indian government," CNN spokesperson Nigel Pritchard tells TVNewser. "Unfortunately, the officials are not extending CNN's live transmission license."

CNN/U.S. and CNNI can still simulcast the transmissions from their partner CNN IBN. Pritchard says the network will also "continue to have correspondents at the Taj Hotel and other locations in Mumbai and will be reporting from the various scenes on the latest news via phone."

CNN's License to Broadcast From India Expires - mediabistro.com: TVNewser


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## TexasJohn

This old country boy is REALLY confused. One of the TVs in the house my study is on CNN live, and broadband shows this.....

IBNLive.com > CNN IBN Live Streaming

come on ya'll!! what am I missing??


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## sunny_aus

*Characteristics of Plot Suggest Outside Help, Analysts Say*

*Official Says Two Attackers Were British Citizens of Pakistani Origin*


BERLIN, Nov. 28 -- Counterterrorism officials and experts said the scale, sophistication and targets involved in the Mumbai attacks were markedly different from previous terrorist plots in India and suggested the gunmen had received training from outside the country. But they cautioned it was too soon to tell who may have masterminded the operation, despite an assertion from a previously unknown Islamist radical group. 

*Officials in India, Europe and the United States said likely culprits included Islamist networks based in Pakistan that have received support in the past from Pakistan's intelligence agencies. *

*Meanwhile, British officials said they were investigating the possibility that two of its citizens were involved in the attacks. *

*In India, Vilasrao Deshmukh, the chief minister of the state of Maharashtra, which includes Mumbai, told reporters that two of the captured gunmen were British citizens of Pakistani origin. He gave no details. *

The British government said it was investigating but unable to confirm the report. 

*"I would not want to be drawn into early conclusions about this," Prime Minister Gordon Brown told reporters. "There is so much information still to be discovered and made available."* 

"But obviously when you have terrorists operating in one country they may be getting support from another country or coming from another country," Brown added. "It is very important that we strengthen the cooperation between India and Britain in dealing with these instances of terrorist attacks." 

British security officials said they were studying photographs of some attackers but were still trying to establish their nationalities. A team of counterterrorism investigators from Scotland Yard has been sent to Mumbai to assist in the investigation. 

"We obviously will want to work very, very closely with the Indians on that, but it is too early to say whether or not any of them are British," David Miliband, the British foreign secretary, said of the suspects. 

*British intelligence officials have warned for years that scores of Britons Muslims have gone to receive training at militant camps inside Pakistan, including at least three of the bombers in the July 7, 2005, London transit attacks.* 

Other officials in London, however, denied that there were any links between British citizens and the Mumbai attackers. 

"The British deputy high commissioner has spoken to Indian authorities who say there is no evidence that any of the terrorists are British," said a spokesperson for the British Foreign Office, speaking on condition of anonymity, as is customary for government spokesmen. 


washingtonpost.com


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## Always Neutral

TexasJohn said:


> This old country boy is REALLY confused. One of the TVs in the house my study is on CNN live, and broadband shows this.....
> 
> IBNLive.com > CNN IBN Live Streaming
> 
> come on ya'll!! what am I missing??



CNN IBN is a partner channel but different from CNN and is an majority INDIAN OWNED CHANNEL and hence they donot need permission for live video link unlike foreign channel.

Please read this from my above post the below sentence

*CNN/U.S. and CNNI can still simulcast the transmissions from their partner CNN IBN*

Regards


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## TexasJohn

Thanks AN. That does clear up the mystery. Good for me - somebody can still give me live feed....


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## haviZsultan

OMG! Did I just see a raakhi on his hand?


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## junoon25pk

I am really impressed by the promptness and quickness of Indian agencies, that just within 24 hrs they find a link till Multan. When I saw the picture of a boat really I couldnt control my laugh, Indian sea is so vulnerable and there Maritimes agencies which always searching for poor fishermans of Pakistan unable to trace it .there mega city changed into battle ground and some wizard ISI backed terrorist are killing them .Army, navy, police commandoes are behind them wow what a flop film seems to be again copy of some Hollywood movie. Please at least come out with some genuine ideas dont try to copy 9/11 instead of this find some ISI backed masala item girls and shoot some songs because you are good in that thing only. it appears that Indians stage this type of flop show to take advantage of Pakistans internal situation as they have been doing in past as well, but this time we are waiting for you with some thing big in our hands.

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## Keysersoze

India has complained in the past that attacks on its soil have been carried out by groups based in Pakistan, although relations between the two countries have improved in recent years and Pakistani leaders were swift to condemn the latest attacks.

But the BBC's Pakistan correspondent, Barbara Plett, says there is a feeling among senior officials in Islamabad that India has acted too hastily in linking the Mumbai attackers to Pakistan.

In the UK, officials denied reports that some of the attackers may have been British citizens of Pakistani origin.

The UK officials said had Indian authorities told them there was no indication so far that anyone shot or in custody was British.

A claim of responsibility for this week's attacks - the worst in India's commercial capital since nearly 200 people were killed in a series of bombings in 2006 - has been made by a previously unknown group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen.

However, most intelligence officials are keeping an open mind as the attacks have thrown up conflicting clues, BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner says. 

BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Troops battle to end Mumbai siege

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## smeaglegolum

*Arrested terrorist says gang hoped to get away*
29 Nov 2008, 0515 hrs IST, TNN


NEW DELHI: The gang of terrorists who wreaked mayhem in Mumbai for three days were made to believe by their Lashkar bosses that they were not being sent on a suicide mission and that they would be coming back alive. 

In a sensational disclosure made by Ajmal, the jihadi nabbed alive by Mumbai cops, the group had planned to sail out on Thursday. Their recruiters had even charted out the return route for them and stored it on the GPS device which they had used to navigate their way to the Mumbai shoreline. 

This suggests that the terrorists were willing to undertake a mission which they knew would be very risky, but not necessarily suicidal. 

Sources said that the bait of safe return must have been used by the recruiters to convince the wavering among the group to join the audacious plot against Mumbai. 

Ajmal made another important disclosure: that all terrorists were trained in marine warfare along with the special course Daura-e-Shifa conducted by the Lashkar-e-Toiba in what at once transforms the nature of the planning from a routine terror strike and into a specialized raid by commandos. 

Battle-hardened ATS officials are surprised by the details of the training the terrorists were put through before being despatched for the macabre mission. This was very different from a terrorist attack, and amounted to an offensive from the seam, said a source. 

*Ajmal has revealed the name of his fellow jihadis all Pakistani citizens as Abu Ali, Fahad, Omar, Shoaib, Umer, Abu Akasha, Ismail, Abdul Rahman (Bara) and Abdul Rahman (Chhota). 

The account of Ajmal also strengthens the doubt of the complicity of powerful elements in the Pakistani establishment. According to him, the group set off on November 21 from an isolated creek near Karachi without the deadly cargo of arms and ammunition they were to use against the innocents in Mumbai. The group received arms and ammunition on board a large Pakistani vessel which picked them up the following day. The vessel, whose ownership is now the subject of an international probe, had four Pakistanis apart from the crew. *

A day later, they came across an Indian-owned trawler, Kuber, which was promptly commandeered on the seas. Four of the fishermen who were on the trawler were killed, but its skipper, or tandel in fishermen lingo, Amarjit Singh, was forced to proceed towards India. Amarjit was killed the next day, and Ismail the terrorist who was killed at Girgaum Chowpaty took the wheel. 

A trained sailor, Ismail used the GPS to reach Mumbai coast on November 26. The group, however, slowed down its advance as they had reached during the day time while the landing was planned after dusk. The group shifted to inflatable boats, before disembarking at Badhwar Park in Cuffe Parade. 

From there, they mandated to kill indiscriminately, particularly white foreign tourists, and spare Muslims split up into five batches. Two of them Ismail and Ajmal took a taxi to Victoria Terminus. Three other batches of two each headed for Oberoi Hotel, Cafe Leopold and Nariman House. The remaining four went to Taj Hotel. 


He may have been motivated enough to kill innocents indiscriminately. In police custody, Ajmal Amir Kasab, the terrorist who was caught alive by the Mumbai police at Girgaum Chowpatty, has been forthcoming with details about the attack on Mumbai and his accomplices, all suspected Lashkar operatives from Pakistan. 

Kasab, who sustained minor injuries in the police firing that killed his partner Abu Ismail (25) on Wednesday night, was produced before the Esplanade Metropolitan Magistrate on Friday. The magistrate remanded him to police custody till December 8. Incidentally, Kasab and Ismail were the two who gunned down ATS chief Hemant Karkare, additional CP Ashok Kamthe and encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar. 

Kasab told the police that he and 9 others got off a vessel about 10 nautical miles from Mumbai and shifted to two boats hijacked from fishermen. 

One source in ATS familiar with the details of the interrogation quoted him saying that in all 16 fidayeens came to Mumbai on Wednesday. *A native of Faridkot in Azad Kashmir (***), 21-year-old Kasab told police they had done a reccee of Mumbai few months ago.* He said he had come along with eight of the operatives to Mumbai as students and lived in a rented room at Colaba market, a stone's throw away from Nariman House.


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## Keysersoze

Wow all that training and he spills the beans about the plot in roughly the same time it takes for me to type this! the Indian secret service should be sent to all major incidents! they have miraculous powers of deduction!

Frankly the reports are laughable. Anyone remember the reports of the "bombing" of a train a few years back? and what emerged a long time later?

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## Flintlock

*
Mumbai attacks: Are they British?*
*
British police have flown to India to establish whether any of the terrorists who killed 150 people in the Bombay massacre had links to the UK.
*

By Damien McElroy in Bombay and Gordon Rayner
Last Updated: 11:53PM GMT 28 Nov 2008
*
Mumbai's chief minister Vilasrao Deshmukh said two "British-born Pakistanis" were among eight gunmen captured alive during bloody shoot-outs with soldiers.*
*
The Daily Telegraph has also learnt that the terrorists monitored international reaction to the attacks on British newspaper websites and on Arabic websites popular in the north of England.
*
Gordon Brown said it was still too early to say whether any of the terrorists were British-born, while the Home Office said it had "no knowledge" of any UK suspects.

As the siege at one Mumbai hotel entered its third night, further gunfire and explosions were heard at the Taj Mahal hotel after a day of fighting between the terrorists and Indian commandos.

Security officials said three or four gunmen were still inside the hotel building with all hostages freed, according to reports.

Meanwhile, officers from Scotland Yard were working alongside their counterparts in Mumbai to confirm the nationalities of the killers.

One commando leader described how suspicions of a British link had been raised when investigators examined BlackBerry mobile phones seized from some of the captured Islamic extremists, which they had used to monitor the internet.

General Noble Thamburaj, head of India's southern command, told the Telegraph: "There was a lot of content from the English media, not just in London but the Urdu and Arabic sites that are very strong in the north of England.

"We have some analysis started on this and we will pass it on to Scotland Yard."

Gen Thamburaj said at least five of the terrorists had used BlackBerrys to monitor British websites.
*
The use of BlackBerrys by the terrorists to monitor international reaction to the atrocities  and to check on the police response  provided further evidence of the highly organised and sophisticated nature of the attacks.
*
Two of the killers were members of staff at the Taj Mahal hotel, according to one report, and two others were staying there as guests, enabling them to plan the attack and gain an edge over security forces by familiarising themselves with the layout of the labyrinthine Edwardian building.

Last night, at least one gunman was still holding commandos at bay inside the Taj Mahal, where gunfire, explosions and fires continued throughout the day.

Asked about a possible British link to the attacks, Gordon Brown said he had spoken to his Indian counterpart, Manmohan Singh, and: "At no point did he suggest to me that there is evidence at this stage of any terrorists of British origin, but obviously there are huge investigations that are being done."

Britons were among 93 people freed from the Oberoi hotel as commandos finally ended the siege there.

They included Mark Abell, a lawyer from London who had earlier spoken to the Telegraph from his hotel room to describe his ordeal, and who said he was now looking forward to "going home and seeing my wife".

Soldiers described horrific scenes as they found 24 bodies in the Oberoi, while another 50 bodies were found inside the Taj Mahal hotel as soldiers cleared all the guest rooms.

A siege at an orthodox Jewish centre in Mumbai came to a bloody end when the building was stormed by special forces. A Rabbi and his wife were among five hostages who were shot dead by their captors before the Indian soldiers could free them.

One Briton  businessman Andreas Liveras  was killed in the attacks and at least seven were injured, including Michael Murphy, a teacher from Northumberland who remains in intensive care, and Harnish Patel, 29, from Havant, Hants., who is being treated for three gunshot wounds.

Mr Patel was in the Café Leopold when the attacks began on Wednesday night.

He said: "A gunman walked in and that was it. He kept showering us with shots. I was so lucky  the guy just took one look at me and showered the whole side of the bar. It's unimaginable. Luckily, he didn't keep his finger down because if he did, I'd be gone."

British tourists arriving back at London airports said they had almost given up hope of surviving the sieges.

Jonathan Chitty, who was caught in a bar next to the Taj Mahal hotel as the terrorists went on the rampage, said: "I was in a store cupboard for about an hour-and-a-half. I felt helpless.

"We were just waiting for them to come upstairs and desperately hoping that they wouldn't. It was so crammed and there was no escape, there was no means to defend ourselves. I thought, 'I'm dead'."

The Indian security forces faced growing accusations that they had bungled their response to the attacks, with one British official saying: "They are supposed to set up a command centre in complete control as their first priority. Instead they arrived and went in guns blazing.

"It was blind. They didn't have maps of the hotels, yet there terrorists had done enough reconnaissance to use the service facilities to manoeuvre."

A senior Indian special forces source said: "There were far too many command centres with each one trying to best the other which led to confusion and delayed operations.

"There appears to have been a lack of detailed, precise planning."

Mumbai attacks: Are they British? - Telegraph


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## smeaglegolum

Remember, this time the culprits are caught. So whatever he say (and there are ways to make him speak) will be used to deduct what happened and how they did it. So comparing it to 'train blasts' and trying to put a blanket on this is ridiculous.


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## haviZsultan

Please look at this which is shared by an Indian themselves: 

Rediff iShare: 2nd Terrorist speaks from Nariman house

They say Indias playing a khoon ki holian of muslims. I think this is actually a pure muslim rebellion. Muslims have simply rebelled against Indian rule. These people are from hyderabad. Anyone can tell from their speech that it is hydz accent. This language is seen as slang and no one in Pakistan has the ability to twist his mouth to talk like this. 

India is facing a rebellion from the Muslims of India 

The other guy says he is from hyderabad but Indians try to make a lier of him. He is talking like hyderabadi. I lived for short while & been there so i knw... 

Rediff iShare: Terrorists speaks


----------



## smeaglegolum

dimension117 said:


> Please look at this which is shared by an Indian themselves:
> 
> Rediff iShare: 2nd Terrorist speaks from Nariman house
> 
> They say Indias playing a khoon ki holian of muslims. I think this is actually a pure muslim rebellion. Muslims have simply rebelled against Indian rule. These people are from hyderabad. Anyone can tell from their speech that it is hydz accent. This language is seen as slang and no one in Pakistan has the ability to twist his mouth to talk like this.
> 
> India is facing a rebellion from the Muslims of India
> 
> The other guy says he is from hyderabad but Indians try to make a lier of him. He is talking like hyderabadi. I lived for short while & been there so i knw...
> 
> Rediff iShare: Terrorists speaks



I'm from Hyderabad, he was definitely not speaking Hyderabadi. So don't give this BS.


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## Flintlock

dimension117 said:


> India is facing a rebellion from the Muslims of India




Feels good to say that right? Kinda reassuring, comforting? 

Well, wait and watch, while the investigation, which is being jointly carried out by Indian Agencies, FBI, and Scotland Yard, takes away your comforts slowly but surely.


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## haviZsultan

smeaglegolum said:


> Remember, this time the culprits are caught. So whatever he say (and there are ways to make him speak) will be used to deduct what happened and how they did it. So comparing it to 'train blasts' and trying to put a blanket on this is ridiculous.



Well he will be in Indian captivity so we will never know the truth and what he really said so... 

Deccan Mujahideen has taken responsibility for this attack not only by the speech of the terrorist but also by the admission made by them in an e mail. 

Comeon dude. 

Cheer up buddy. U need to chill out!

If I were you I'd go to kamathipura... bet there'd be many woman who want to be comforted rite now...


----------



## haviZsultan

Flintlock said:


> Feels good to say that right? Kinda reassuring, comforting?
> 
> Well, wait and watch, while the investigation, which is being jointly carried out by Indian Agencies, FBI, and Scotland Yard, takes away your comforts slowly but surely.



Nope its not comfort. Its called entertainment. 
Thats what this thread has become... 

Flintlock u've been running around this page f4 quite a while. Ever since yesterday if i remember maybe even before... 

Aren't u tired? 

U knw what u need. U need to hunt down the hindu extremists and RAW guys. 

Asli mein does'nt it appeal to ur conscious that the cops who were leading investigations into the malegaon blasts were actually killed? This was the first bombing ever blamed on hindu fanatics even though its more than clear many others are done by the hindu fanatics as well...


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## Flintlock

Its official - after accepting our PM's generous request to share Intel and jointly investigate the attacks, the Pakistani establishment has predictably done a U-turn and is sending some lower official instead of the ISI Chief.


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## Keysersoze

smeaglegolum said:


> Remember, this time the culprits are caught. So whatever he say (and there are ways to make him speak) will be used to deduct what happened and how they did it. So comparing it to 'train blasts' and trying to put a blanket on this is ridiculous.



yawn! Sorry dude but ever heard the saying "orgy of evidence"? and the chances of having a trail like this discovered without digging for a while is next to zero. I think this "plot" discovery stinks like last weeks fish. Even the U.S. Govt took longer to discover the trail behind 9-11 and the "AMAZINGLY EFFECTIVE" Indian police did it in less.

Oh and the train blast which was blamed on Muslims turned out to be a fire but for years people like you blamed Pakistan.

So I suggest to all you private investigators stop perpetuated half truths and idiocy until there has been a proper investigation (preferably one involving Interpol and similar organisations).

Reactions: Like Like:
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## haviZsultan

Flintlock said:


> Feels good to say that right? Kinda reassuring, comforting?
> 
> Well, wait and watch, while the investigation, which is being jointly carried out by Indian Agencies, FBI, and Scotland Yard, takes away your comforts slowly but surely.



Was that a veiled threat directly to me?


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## Flintlock

dimension117 said:


> Nope its not comfort. Its called entertainment.
> Thats what this thread has become...
> 
> Flintlock u've been running around this page f4 quite a while. Ever since yesterday if i remember maybe even before...
> 
> Aren't u tired?
> 
> U knw what u need. U need to hunt down the hindu extremists and RAW guys.
> 
> Asli mein does'nt it appeal to ur conscious that the cops who were leading investigations into the malegaon blasts were actually killed? This was the first bombing ever blamed on hindu fanatics even though its more than clear many others are done by the hindu fanatics as well...



I have been covering this terror attack continuously since it has started - I intend to stick around till it winds up. 

As I said, the truth will be revealed by both domestic and international agencies, and I'm afraid it will not sound very pleasing to your ears.


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## Patriot

Flintlock said:


> Its official - after accepting our PM's generous request to share Intel and jointly investigate the attacks, the Pakistani establishment has predictably done a U-turn and is sending some lower official instead of the ISI Chief.


LMAO..This has to be the funniest post.You guys are wayy too much paranoid.They are not sending ISI Chief because of your disgusting media!Nice way to twist facts..


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## smeaglegolum

dimension117 said:


> Well he will be in Indian captivity so we will never know the truth and what he really said so...
> 
> Deccan Mujahideen has taken responsibility for this attack not only by the speech of the terrorist but also by the admission made by them in an e mail.
> 
> Comeon dude.
> 
> Cheer up buddy. U need to chill out!
> 
> If I were you I'd go to kamathipura... bet there'd be many woman who want to be comforted rite now...



Just sending an e-mail and claiming responsibility is ain't gonna change the facts. Even I can send an e-mail and claim I did it, not a big deal. Why are you in such a hurry, minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day, evidence is accumulating which indicates the pakistani elements are involved. No two ways. You can write whatever you want to comfort yourself that pakistani elements are not involved, but that doesn't gonna change the facts or do they.

Sit tight and watch the show.


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## Flintlock

saadahmed said:


> LMAO..This has to be the funniest post.You guys are wayy too much paranoid.They are not sending ISI Chief because of your disgusting media!Nice way to twist facts..



So their decision got influenced by the Indian media? Really? That's the, may I add, extremely lame, reason?


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## haviZsultan

smeaglegolum said:


> I'm from Hyderabad, he was definitely not speaking Hyderabadi. So don't give this BS.



No but many of the muslims in hyderabad sort of go like mein aisa karey ga, woh udher gaya, abhi ayeyga rey etc. Thats all consdered slang back here in Pak where urdu is pure and stuff. Like our coz shifted f4m afzalganj, hydz in 2003... even i lived back there f4 some time i guess, even now when i came i stayed in there place near osmania medical college and **** mate... well nyway... it is hydz muslims speaking style. Some telgu speakin muslims specially! They're the real deal. They have exactly this sort of tongue and stuff. Bulkul aisayhi boltey hain. 

End of story. lol.


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## Keysersoze

smeaglegolum said:


> Just sending an e-mail and claiming responsibility is ain't gonna change the facts. Even I can send an e-mail and claim I did it, not a big deal. Why are you in such a hurry, minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day, evidence is accumulating which indicates the pakistani elements are involved. No two ways. You can write whatever you want to comfort yourself that pakistani elements are not involved, but that doesn't gonna change the facts or do they.
> 
> Sit tight and watch the show.



Ahh i see someone else has already made the decision ! and all the wy from America no less! Did the terrorists call you as well? frankly you should see a proper investigative process before you talk crap.Otherwise all you are spouting is what you wanna believe. Which is more of a reflection of your need to hate someone.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Patriot

Flintlock said:


> So their decision got influenced by the Indian media? Really? That's the, may I add, extremely lame, reason?


Just watch one of your channel.Your people are abusing Pakistan and ISI Chief for no reason whatsoever.The investigation is not complete and anyway I'd not trust India investigation.Scotland Yard and FBI will provide result until then you can keep your mouth shut and oh i am pretty sure ISI agents wont start talking to media people on TV!It's people like you who twists facts.I can only say one thing; You indian guys are living in dreamland.This is not US we're talking about it's India and we know how great the investigation methods are (Hint: Train Blasts..Army involved).Anyway, let's wait and see


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## newlife

Mumbai attacks: British Muslims and terrorist attacks, Bombay India - Telegraph



*A number of young British Muslims with roots in Pakistan have been responsible for terrorist attacks, both in Britain and abroad. *

Omar Sharif from Derby, a student at King&#8217;s College London, went on to become a suicide bomber in Israel.

Omar Khyam from Crawley and his gang of four others planned a fertilizer bomb attack on the Bluewater shopping centre in Kent and the Ministry of Sound nightclub in London in 2004.

Indian-born Dhiren Barot converted to Islam while living with his family in Harrow, North London and recruited a team of seven others to attack hotels with car bombs in 2004.

All four of the July 7 suicide bombers who attacked the London Underground in 2005 were from Pakistani families living in Leeds.

Parviz Khan from Birmingham planned to kidnap and execute a British soldier in 2006.


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## Patriot

newlife said:


> Mumbai attacks: British Muslims and terrorist attacks, Bombay India - Telegraph
> 
> 
> 
> *A number of young British Muslims with roots in Pakistan have been responsible for terrorist attacks, both in Britain and abroad. *
> 
> Omar Sharif from Derby, a student at Kings College London, went on to become a suicide bomber in Israel.
> 
> Omar Khyam from Crawley and his gang of four others planned a fertilizer bomb attack on the Bluewater shopping centre in Kent and the Ministry of Sound nightclub in London in 2004.
> 
> Indian-born Dhiren Barot converted to Islam while living with his family in Harrow, North London and recruited a team of seven others to attack hotels with car bombs in 2004.
> 
> All four of the July 7 suicide bombers who attacked the London Underground in 2005 were from Pakistani families living in Leeds.
> 
> Parviz Khan from Birmingham planned to kidnap and execute a British soldier in 2006.


I see..Some British people are involved (They were born in PK but are British citizen) so i guess In1dian public will now sugegst, let's bomb UK we're the next superpower


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## smeaglegolum

Keysersoze said:


> Ahh i see someone else has already made the decision ! and all the wy from America no less! Did the terrorists call you as well? frankly you should see a proper investigative process before you talk crap.Otherwise all you are spouting is what you wanna believe. Which is more of a reflection of your need to hate someone.



Yes, in a day or two you will see more evidence. Indian PM didn't ask ISI chief just for fun. There is something to it. Lets just wait and watch.


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## haviZsultan

Flintlock said:


> I have been covering this terror attack continuously since it has started - I intend to stick around till it winds up.
> 
> As I said, the truth will be revealed by both domestic and international agencies, and I'm afraid it will not sound very pleasing to your ears.



No if I did'nt enjoy this then i would'nt stick around either...

Infact just let me explain the complexity of the situation to you. U c what is happening right now is actually an attack by Indian hindu extremists supported by RAW on Indian soil. Now only reason poor Mumbaites sleep has been spoiled this very day (and the previous days) is because of RAW. RAW has actually turned against its own people and it definately has to be tamed. 

Hey anyone ever play the game DBR? Storyline goes in same way... Some Big boiz (for example India here) try to make a weapon to destroy their enemies and weapon (in this case RAW) turns against its own creators. Then obviously some foreign studs need to head in and clear the threat out so that it does not destroy the big boiz themselves... 

Keeping the perilous state of India in mind due to these attacks we as Pakistanis have sent our intelligence chief for you to track down the culprits and to defeat the hindu extremists and RAW. 

Pakistanis please do all to help the Indians in their great hour of need!


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## Keysersoze

newlife said:


> Mumbai attacks: British Muslims and terrorist attacks, Bombay India - Telegraph
> 
> 
> 
> *A number of young British Muslims with roots in Pakistan have been responsible for terrorist attacks, both in Britain and abroad. *
> 
> Omar Sharif from Derby, a student at Kings College London, went on to become a suicide bomber in Israel.
> 
> Omar Khyam from Crawley and his gang of four others planned a fertilizer bomb attack on the Bluewater shopping centre in Kent and the Ministry of Sound nightclub in London in 2004.
> 
> Indian-born Dhiren Barot converted to Islam while living with his family in Harrow, North London and recruited a team of seven others to attack hotels with car bombs in 2004.
> 
> All four of the July 7 suicide bombers who attacked the London Underground in 2005 were from Pakistani families living in Leeds.
> 
> Parviz Khan from Birmingham planned to kidnap and execute a British soldier in 2006.



Dear oh dear...have IQ's dropped in India? YOU CAN'T USE EVIDENCE FROM A DIFFERENT CASE AS PROOF IN A NEW ONE...........
Jeez guys we all know you hate Muslims and are looking for a fight but this is pathetic........


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## Patriot

smeaglegolum said:


> Yes, in a day or two you will see more evidence. Indian PM didn't ask ISI chief just for fun. There is something to it. Lets just wait and watch.


He didnt ask him.He requested Pakistan's PM to send him and hes not going anyway..


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## newlife

> I see..Some British people are involved (They were born in PK but are British citizen)



but they are pakis


> so i guess In1dian public will now sugegst, let's bomb UK we're the next superpower



WTF....!!!!!!!!


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## smeaglegolum

saadahmed said:


> He didnt ask him.He requested Pakistan's PM to send him and hes not going anyway..



Probably fearing the hard evidence against pakistani elements. Because GoP has initially declared that ISI chief will go to meet Indian PM and then back tracked. Hmmm....


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## haviZsultan

Ok last question bf4 i go to sleep... is bar serious hoon yaar.

Question is directed to Indians:

Just tell me how much faith do you have in your media? Like is there ever that u dont believe them? Lets go thru history. Samjhauta express turns out to be done by an Indian hindu fanatic who turns out to be an army major. Malegaon was blamed on us then on the hindu fanatics. In this attack on Mumbai the policemen who had for the 1st time ever managed to ensure that the real culprits and hindu fanatics responsible for the bombing were going to be and about to be punished were killed. Who are you guys fooling. Other than this lets check out your history of blame on Pakistan and its ISI and some headlines in Indian newspapers:

Pakistani female ISI agent established sexual relationship with British military attach&#233; to Pakistan.

ISI trying to spread H5N1 virus in India

ISI agent Shiv Shankar Sahu arrested

ISI infiltrating Jihadis and Seperatists from Bangladesh and Nepal

The Nefarious Activities of Pakistan's ISI

ISI has infiltrated every corner of India

Female ISI agents using sex to court Muslim males in India into terrorism

ISI agenda to capture Kerala coast

ISI Using Sex, Lies & Video Tapes Against Judges

India blames BD terror groups, ISI for blasts in Hyederabad, Andhra Pradesh

BJP blames ISI for Jaipur blasts

Mumbai Police blames ISI, LeT for 7/11 blasts

Suspected ISI agent shot dead in Ahmedabad

Graves of ISI agents turn out to Kashmiri civilians

Intelligence report: ISI plot to spread HIV in Army

ISI agents posing as females to recruit Hindu boys.

Bangla influx part of ISI plot: Advani

Pak's Nepal Embassy a hub for ISI activities

ISI agents given free sex and other benefits when in India

And Finally we are blamed for the current attacks in Mumbai now:

ISI role in Mumbai mayhem

In truth this blame game is pure amusement for us Pakistanis. I only come round here on this thread everytime cauz I knew you'd be blaming Pakistan for your personal satisfaction. The real culprits Deccan Mujahideen (accepted responsibility through contacting the media) are sitting there happily going about their terrorist prowling and stuff... 

I am really cracking up... i mean comeon yaar. Just put that nationalism aside and think ke is'nt this just stupid? Do you really really really believe this apocalyptic bullshit? 

This is a plan to keep ISI on backfoot and to make sure Indians keep thinking of a foreign threat and keep fearing because of it. It is denying you the thing u guys deserve. To get at the real people who did the blasts. You guys should be ashamed for believing everything the media and govt churns. You know many of the articles here are absolute bullshit.


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## Kumar

Ajmal has revealed the name of his fellow jihadis all Pakistani citizens as Abu Ali, Fahad, Omar, Shoaib, Umer, Abu Akasha, Ismail, Abdul Rahman (Bara) and Abdul Rahman (Chhota). 

Is this pakistani names ?

Somebody told me AJMAL ISMAIL FROM FARIDAKOT PAKISTAN is not a pakistan name ??????


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## Kumar

why pakistan is sending the ISI representatives?

What happen to the chief ? 

Why is the U-Turn ?

Pakistan's intelligence chief heads for India | World news | guardian.co.uk

this is not a indian or american site.


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## indiapakistanfriendship

> yawn! Sorry dude but ever heard the saying "orgy of evidence"? and the chances of having a trail like this discovered without digging for a while is next to zero. I think this "plot" discovery stinks like last weeks fish. Even the U.S. Govt took longer to discover the trail behind 9-11 and the "AMAZINGLY EFFECTIVE" Indian police did it in less.



Keys surprisingly the capture of a Pakistani vessel and taking into custody, its crew has not been reported by Indian media widely. The UNESCO chair for Peace a counter terrorism expert himself pointed out in CNN as to how his sources in the 'services' mentioned regarding a breakthrough from the captured vessel. He also pointed out that the services have not to the Indian media with this information. 

There seems to be a good possibility that lot of incriminating evidence linked to Pakistan must have been found. The man seems to have his contacts well placed.

IPF


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## Kumar

Pak's U-turn: ISI chief's visit to India cancelled

Why is the U - Turn ?


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## haviZsultan

smeaglegolum said:


> Yes, it is Indian habit to not answer stupid questions.



Okay one second u mean that you believe each and every heading back there? So all the things were done by ISI agents? Is that what you think. Like spreading H5N1 in India and spreading aids among indian soldiers. It was all ISI?


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## BanglaBhoot

U.S. Intelligence Focuses on Pakistani Group 

WASHINGTON  American intelligence and counterterrorism officials said Friday there was mounting evidence that a Pakistani militant group based in Kashmir, most likely Lashkar-e-Taiba, was responsible for the deadly attacks in Mumbai.

The American officials cautioned that they had reached no hard conclusions about who was responsible for the operation, nor on how it had been planned and carried out. Nevertheless, they said that evidence gathered over the past two days has pointed to a role for Lashkar-e-Taiba, or possibly another Pakistani group focused on Kashmir, Jaish-e-Muhammad.

The American officials insisted on anonymity in describing their current thinking and declined to discuss the intelligence information that they said pointed to Kashmiri militants.

Lashkar-e-Taiba on Thursday denied any responsibility for the terrorist strikes. The group is thought by American intelligence agencies to have received some training and logistical support in the past from Pakistans powerful spy service, the Inter-Services Intelligence agency, or ISI, but American officials said Friday that there was no evidence that the Pakistani government had any role in the Mumbai attacks.

American and Indian officials for years have blamed Lashkar-e-Taiba for a campaign of violence against high-profile targets throughout India, including the December 2001 attack on the Indian Parliament building in New Delhi and an August 2007 strike at an amusement park in Hyderabad.

At times, Indian officials have also said that Jaish-e-Muhammad was responsible for the 2001 attack on the Parliament building.

A State Department report issued this year called Lashkar-e-Taiba one of the largest and most proficient of the Kashmiri-focused militant groups. The report said that the group drew funding in part from Pakistani expatriate communities in the Middle East, despite the freezing of its assets by the United States and Pakistan in 2002, after the attack on the Indian Parliament.

The report said that the actual size of the group was unknown, but estimated its strength at several thousand members.

Pakistani officials announced Friday that the head of the ISI, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, would travel to India to assist the Indian government with its investigation of the attacks. If it occurred, the visit would mark a first for an ISI chief.

But by Friday evening, Pakistani officials were suggesting that a lower-level representative of the ISI would make the trop.

An FBI team has also been dispatched to Mumbai to assist with the forensic investigation of the attacks.

Lashkar-e-Taiba has, for the most part, not targeted Westerners in past attacks, as some reports said the attackers in Mumbai did. But one counterterrorism official said Friday that the group has not pursued an exclusively Kashmiri agenda and that the group might certainly go after Westerners to advance a broader goals.

The official said that there was also strong evidence that Lashkar-e-Taiba had a maritime capability and would definitely have been capable of mounting the sophisticated operation in Mumbai, which intelligence officials say they believe began when the attackers arrived in the city in small boats.

American and Indian officials are pursuing the possibility that the attackers arrived off the coast of Mumbai in a larger merchant ship, and then boarded the smaller boats before they launched the attack.

Even as a Kashmiri connection to the attacks began to emerge Friday, American officials said there were puzzled by some developments of the past two days. For instance, they said they still know next to nothing about a group called the Deccan Mujahedeen that has reportedly taken responsibility for the attacks.

Terrorism experts have said there is no evidence that the group was involved in past strikes, and speculated that the name was made up by another militant group to mask responsibility for the attacks.

Pakistan, meanwhile, seemed anxious to defuse the mounting crisis in relations with its neighbor.

The Pakistani foreign minister, Shah Mahmood Qureshi, said that India and his country should join hands to defeat a common enemy, and urged New Delhi not to play politics over the attacks in Mumbai, Reuters reported.

Do not bring politics into this issue, the Pakistani foreign minister told reporters in the Indian town of Ajmer during a four-day visit to India. This is a collective issue. We are facing a common enemy and we should join hands to defeat the enemy.

President Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan called Prime Minister Manmohan Singh of India, Reuters reported, to say he was appalled and shocked by the terrorist attacks. Non-state actors wanted to force upon the governments their own agenda, but they must not be allowed to succeed, he said. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/world/asia/29intel.html?_r=1&hp


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## Flintlock

dimension117 said:


> Okay one second u mean that you believe each and every heading back there? So all the things were done by ISI agents? Is that what you think. Like spreading H5N1 in India and spreading aids among indian soldiers. It was all ISI?



Well, for starters, can you verify that all those headlines are authentic?


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## BanglaBhoot

It seems these allegations against Pakistan are somewhat contrived. Is this the India-Israel-US alliance at work here. Read my other posting on the subject on a new thread under 'Strategic and Geopolitical issues'.


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## haviZsultan

Kumar said:


> Pak's U-turn: ISI chief's visit to India cancelled
> 
> Why is the U - Turn ?



Oh thats just because we just think one representative of ISI we send like a junior ISI officer can track down RAW and its terrorist activities in Mumbai which have left Mumbai in a complete state of shock and despair. 

 I tell u what? 
U guys should arm urselves. Lets go after RAW which is attacking has turned against its own countrymen...


----------



## BanglaBhoot

*Israel says Mumbai attackers targeted its citizens*

'There is no doubt, we know, that the targets the terrorists singled out were Jewish,' Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni says. Israel and India have close defense ties.

By Richard Boudreaux
3:39 PM PST, November 28, 2008

Reporting from Jerusalem -- Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said Friday that Israelis were deliberate targets of the well-organized bands of gunmen whose attacks across the Indian city of Mumbai included one on an ultra-Orthodox Jewish center.

Israeli officials receiving reports from Mumbai had initially hesitated to judge whether the attack on the center owned by the group Chabad-Lubavitch, where gunmen seized hostages late Wednesday, was planned or random.

Livni's remark at a news conference in Jerusalem came after Indian commandos stormed the building Friday and found the bodies of five hostages, including the Israeli-born rabbi and his wife who ran the center.

"There is no doubt, we know, that the targets the terrorists singled out were Jewish, Israeli targets and targets identified with the West, Americans and Britons," Livni said.

Like the United States and Britain, Israel has a close relationship with India, and the two countries view radical Islam as a common threat.

Israeli officials have released no assessment about the identity and motive of the attackers, whose rampage throughout Mumbai left at least 150 people dead, including at least 14 foreigners. Livni, without elaboration, blamed "Islamic extremists who don't accept our existence or Western values."

In February, Israel said it was tightening security at its embassies and Jewish centers around the world against a threatened revenge attack by Hezbollah. The Lebanese militant group blamed Israel for the Feb. 12 car bombing death of one of its top commanders, Imad Mughniyah, in Syria.

But the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported Friday that security at soft targets such as the Chabad center in Mumbai was "currently rather relaxed in many countries."

Like the United States, Israel issues travel advisories for its citizens based on potential terrorist threats. Such an advisory has long been in effect for India, a country with a history of terrorist incidents and a large Muslim minority.

But Israeli Brig. Gen. Nitzan Nuriel, head of the prime minister's counter-terrorism office, said in a televised interview that Israel had received no specific warning of an attack in Mumbai.

"In all honesty, this isn't an area in which we have very good intelligence control," he said.

Israel and India share intelligence on terrorist groups. They have developed close defense and security ties since establishing diplomatic relations in 1992.

Israel is India's second-biggest arms supplier, after Russia. India has bought more than $5 billion worth of Israeli equipment since 2002, making it Israel's biggest defense customer. In addition, Israel is training Indian military units and discussing an arrangement to give Indian commandos instruction in counter-terrorist tactics and urban warfare.

Some Israeli commentators speculated Friday, without offering evidence, that this security cooperation might have been one of the motives for the Mumbai attacks.

In any case, the cooperation is a sensitive topic in India, said Efraim Inbar, a security specialist at Israel's Bar-Ilan University. He noted a decline since 2003 in high-profile visits by Indian and Israeli officials to each other's countries to promote weapons deals and training missions.

Israeli newspapers reported Friday that India had turned down an offer by Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak to send counter-terrorist units to help fight the attackers.

Instead, Israel dispatched a delegation of ultra-Orthodox volunteers from Zaka, an emergency medical services organization, to attend to victims of the attacks.

Israel says Mumbai attackers targeted its citizens - Los Angeles Times


----------



## Flintlock

MBI Munshi said:


> It seems these allegations against Pakistan are somewhat contrived. Is this the India-Israel-US alliance at work here. Read my other posting on the subject on a new thread under 'Strategic and Geopolitical issues'.



OH yes - the global HinJew Conspiracy!!

Thanks to this imagined HinJew Conspiracy, these brainwashed terrorists are killing Jews. 

What a mess you guys have got yourselves in!


----------



## haviZsultan

Flintlock said:


> Well, for starters, can you verify that all those headlines are authentic?



Its you Indians who wrote them. See I knew it! Even you dont think they are authentic but hey they blame Pakistan so why not join in with them? Rite? 

Pakistan&#8217;s Inter-State Intelligence (ISI) plans to spread the AIDS virus among personnel of the Indian army and paramilitary forces through contaminated syringes in Army hospitals Aftermath News

ISI Using Sex, Lies & Video Tapes Against Judges? WeCite Blog

ISI agent Shiv Shankar Sahu arrested, MG Vol. 1 No. 18

These are some links check them... I am not searching all phirse... its boring


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## haviZsultan

MBI Munshi said:


> *Israel says Mumbai attackers targeted its citizens*
> 
> 'There is no doubt, we know, that the targets the terrorists singled out were Jewish,' Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni says. Israel and India have close defense ties.
> 
> By Richard Boudreaux
> 3:39 PM PST, November 28, 2008
> 
> Reporting from Jerusalem -- Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said Friday that Israelis were deliberate targets of the well-organized bands of gunmen whose attacks across the Indian city of Mumbai included one on an ultra-Orthodox Jewish center.
> 
> Israeli officials receiving reports from Mumbai had initially hesitated to judge whether the attack on the center owned by the group Chabad-Lubavitch, where gunmen seized hostages late Wednesday, was planned or random.
> 
> Livni's remark at a news conference in Jerusalem came after Indian commandos stormed the building Friday and found the bodies of five hostages, including the Israeli-born rabbi and his wife who ran the center.
> 
> "There is no doubt, we know, that the targets the terrorists singled out were Jewish, Israeli targets and targets identified with the West, Americans and Britons," Livni said.
> 
> Like the United States and Britain, Israel has a close relationship with India, and the two countries view radical Islam as a common threat.
> 
> Israeli officials have released no assessment about the identity and motive of the attackers, whose rampage throughout Mumbai left at least 150 people dead, including at least 14 foreigners. Livni, without elaboration, blamed "Islamic extremists who don't accept our existence or Western values."
> 
> In February, Israel said it was tightening security at its embassies and Jewish centers around the world against a threatened revenge attack by Hezbollah. The Lebanese militant group blamed Israel for the Feb. 12 car bombing death of one of its top commanders, Imad Mughniyah, in Syria.
> 
> But the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported Friday that security at soft targets such as the Chabad center in Mumbai was "currently rather relaxed in many countries."
> 
> Like the United States, Israel issues travel advisories for its citizens based on potential terrorist threats. Such an advisory has long been in effect for India, a country with a history of terrorist incidents and a large Muslim minority.
> 
> But Israeli Brig. Gen. Nitzan Nuriel, head of the prime minister's counter-terrorism office, said in a televised interview that Israel had received no specific warning of an attack in Mumbai.
> 
> "In all honesty, this isn't an area in which we have very good intelligence control," he said.
> 
> Israel and India share intelligence on terrorist groups. They have developed close defense and security ties since establishing diplomatic relations in 1992.
> 
> Israel is India's second-biggest arms supplier, after Russia. India has bought more than $5 billion worth of Israeli equipment since 2002, making it Israel's biggest defense customer. In addition, Israel is training Indian military units and discussing an arrangement to give Indian commandos instruction in counter-terrorist tactics and urban warfare.
> 
> Some Israeli commentators speculated Friday, without offering evidence, that this security cooperation might have been one of the motives for the Mumbai attacks.
> 
> In any case, the cooperation is a sensitive topic in India, said Efraim Inbar, a security specialist at Israel's Bar-Ilan University. He noted a decline since 2003 in high-profile visits by Indian and Israeli officials to each other's countries to promote weapons deals and training missions.
> 
> Israeli newspapers reported Friday that India had turned down an offer by Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak to send counter-terrorist units to help fight the attackers.
> 
> Instead, Israel dispatched a delegation of ultra-Orthodox volunteers from Zaka, an emergency medical services organization, to attend to victims of the attacks.
> 
> Israel says Mumbai attackers targeted its citizens - Los Angeles Times



Ur articles kill it bro!... 

Rock On!


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## Neo

*Threads been moderated, any off topic or flamatory post will be deleted.
Neo *

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## haviZsultan

Flintlock said:


> OH yes - the global HinJew Conspiracy!!
> 
> Thanks to this imagined HinJew Conspiracy, these brainwashed terrorists are killing Jews.
> 
> What a mess you guys have got yourselves in!



Ofcourse! Its to seal an even stronger alliance between India and Israel right. According to RAW's functioning rules etc some hindus and jews obviously have to be killed... they are disposable according to them.


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## Flintlock

dimension117 said:


> Its you Indians who wrote them. See I knew it! Even you dont think they are authentic but hey they blame Pakistan so why not join in with them? Rite?
> 
> Pakistans Inter-State Intelligence (ISI) plans to spread the AIDS virus among personnel of the Indian army and paramilitary forces through contaminated syringes in Army hospitals Aftermath News
> 
> ISI Using Sex, Lies & Video Tapes Against Judges? WeCite Blog
> 
> ISI agent Shiv Shankar Sahu arrested, MG Vol. 1 No. 18
> 
> These are some links check them... I am not searching all phirse... its boring



I'm bored as well. If your links lead to websites with purely user-generated content like IndiaDaily, then you are wasting everyone's time.

Get some credible news sources first. Then we'll discuss further.


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## Neo

Flintlock said:


> OH yes - the global HinJew Conspiracy!!
> 
> Thanks to this imagined HinJew Conspiracy, these brainwashed terrorists are killing Jews.
> 
> What a mess you guys have got yourselves in!



What's this _*ïmagined*_ HinJew Conspiracy"? Its a fact!

Jane's Information Group, the world's premier intelligence information source, ominously reported in July 2001 that *"The Indian spy agency RAW and the Israeli spy agency Mossad have created four new agencies to infiltrate Pakistan to target important religious and military personalities, journalists, judges, lawyers and bureaucrats. In addition, bombs would be exploded in trains, railway stations, bridges, bus stations, cinemas, hotels and mosques of rival Islamic sects to incite sectarianism."*

Yes...what a mess you've created eversince!

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## hasang20

what a shame on Indian Army 3 day s of operation we would've provide our SSG elite force if you guys would've asked for help


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## Kumar

hasang20 said:


> what a shame on Indian Army 3 day s of operation we would've provide our SSG elite force if you guys would've asked for help



It may be easy for SSG coz they are from the same place and same training.


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## Kumar

Its all over Now. Hope it wont happen again.


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## ejaz007

*ISI nominee to represent DG *
Saturday, November 29, 2008


ISLAMABAD: A representative of the Inter-Services Intelligence will visit India instead of the DG ISI to help in investigating the Mumbai terrorism incident. This was said by a spokesman of the Prime Minister House in a press release issued here late on Friday.

ISI nominee to represent DG


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## sunny_aus

Neo said:


> What's this _*&#239;magined*_ HinJew Conspiracy"? Its a fact!
> 
> Jane's Information Group, the world's premier intelligence information source, ominously reported in July 2001 that *"The Indian spy agency RAW and the Israeli spy agency Mossad have created four new agencies to infiltrate Pakistan to target important religious and military personalities, journalists, judges, lawyers and bureaucrats. In addition, bombs would be exploded in trains, railway stations, bridges, bus stations, cinemas, hotels and mosques of rival Islamic sects to incite sectarianism."*
> 
> Yes...what a mess you've created eversince!




Pakistan follow five basic steps of tackling terrorism:

1. If something happens inside Pakistan then *they fight with those terrorist, even if they are great follower of Islam, Pakistani force kill them.* 

2. If these terrorists do something outside with support of their military and spy agency, then they &#8220;generally&#8221; ignore it.

3. When something has happenned outside Pakistan, they try to hide their agencies with their best.

4. and When their agencies are found guilty of training terrorists for attacks in US, UK, India etc like this attack in Mumbai, they try to defend their government agencies like ISI and pakistani military who openly do back up firing to enter terrorists in Kashmir. With a history of full involvement in wars like kargil to defend those terrorists who were hiding in kargil.

5. and lastly, they try to get advantage of what their agencies have done outside Pakistan.

You are right now on 4th and 5th stage. Either you are trying to hide or defend Pakistani involvement or you are trying to get its benefits by giving it a colour of religions.

The Terrorism Infrastructure, Pakistan prepared first for Punjab and then for Kashmir is now an industry which Pakistan doesn&#8217;t wanna loose. 
Making militant groups like Taliban is quite easy for Pakistan but loosing this industry is very painful for them which not only ensure inflow of foreign currency on the name of war against terrorism but also a feeling of pride for fighting for religion against US with keeping a feet in india like this attack.


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## Kumar

ejaz007 said:


> *ISI nominee to represent DG *
> Saturday, November 29, 2008
> 
> 
> ISLAMABAD: A representative of the Inter-Services Intelligence will visit India instead of the DG ISI to help in investigating the Mumbai terrorism incident. This was said by a spokesman of the Prime Minister House in a press release issued here late on Friday.
> 
> ISI nominee to represent DG



U-TURN ........


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## ejaz007

Kumar said:


> It may be easy for SSG coz they are from the same place and same training.



So your army and commandoes are not trained for fighting.

What have they been doing for three days cleaning hotel toilets.


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## Kumar

ejaz007 said:


> So your army and commandoes are not trained for fighting.
> 
> What have they been doing for three days cleaning hotel toilets.



So you are accepting its ur SSG ? 

First ask ur ssg to take care of the drones thats flying and killing in pakistan then u can talk about our nsg.


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## ejaz007

Kumar said:


> U-TURN ........



Why are you jumping upside down. Its you people who have taken the u-turn.

First accuse the agency of terrorism and then request them to help investigate.

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## Kumar

ejaz007 said:


> Why are you jumping upside down. Its you people who have taken the u-turn.
> 
> First accuse the agency of terrorism and then request them to help investigate.



Ask your PM ...and read the thread plz


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## PeaceForAll

ejaz007 said:


> Why are you jumping upside down. Its you people who have taken the u-turn.
> 
> First accuse the agency of terrorism and then request them to help investigate.



According to the Indian News channels , they have not asked for help, instead, ISI chief was asked to come to show him the "proof" that they have...

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## asaad-ul-islam

instead of sending in commandos and showing off with a helicopter, they could have sent a SWAT team and start with negotiations.

*Israel - India's rescue efforts 'premature and badly planned'*

Israel defence officials have criticised the way Indian security forces have handled the terror attacks in Bombay, after it appeared that India turned down their offer of help to defeat the militants. 

The officials, from Israel's security forces, told The Jerusalem Post that the *Indian troops prematurely stormed the besieged hotels where militants were holding hostages, risking lives in the process.* 

Indian counter-terrorist forces were well trained but failed to gather sufficient intelligence before engaging the terrorists, they said. 

"In hostage situations, the first thing the forces are supposed to do is assemble at the scene and begin collecting intelligence," said a former official in Shin Bet, the Israel Security Agency 

"*In this case, it appears that the forces showed up at the scene and immediately began exchanging fire with the terrorists instead of first taking control of the area*," he said. 

Ehud Barak, the Defence Minister, has expressed his concerns about the safety of Israelis caught up in the attack, such as those held hostage in the Jewish Centre stormed in the early hours of this morning. 

Seventeen commandos abseiled onto the roof of Nariman House, while snipers peppered the building with covering fire. The two year old son of Rabbi Gavriel Noach Holtzberg, the main representative at the Jewish Centre, was rescued along with some other hostages but this morning gunshots and explosions still echoed around the building. 

The security experts' criticism came as it emerged that Mr Barak had offered Mayankote Kelath Narayanan, India's National Security adviser, any assistance possible, either humanitarian or professional. 

"Barak offered Israel's help in an advisory capacity and in any other way it could be of assistance, be it humanitarian or professional," it reported. 

The two countries have close defence ties. India has bought more than $5 billion worth of Israeli equipment since 2002. 

According to the Jerusalem Post, the two countries have already discussed an agreement for Israel's Defence Force to send its own highly trained commandos to help India in Kashmir, the Moslem majority region claimed by both India and Pakistan. 

The newspaper claism that Maj.-Gen. Avi Mizrahi, the commander in chief of Israel's Ground Forces Command spent three days visiting Kashmir in September to discuss the plan. 

Israel - India's rescue efforts 'premature and badly planned' - Times Online


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## ejaz007

Kumar said:


> So you are accepting its ur SSG ?
> 
> First ask ur ssg to take care of the drones thats flying and killing in pakistan then u can talk about our nsg.



Perhaps you have problem understanding english. I suggest you go through my previous post and then reply.


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## ejaz007

PeaceForAll said:


> According to the Indian News channels , they have not asked for help, instead, ISI chief was asked to come to show him the "proof" that they have...



According to our PM and he is much better informed than your news people the request has been made and accepted by Pakistan.


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## PeaceForAll

There was a press conference on one Indian channel just now by the commander or something of the NSG commandos.. he says they killed 3 terrorists but he says he cannot say if all of them are killed until they sanitise the whole area


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## Kumar

PeaceForAll said:


> According to the Indian News channels , they have not asked for help, instead, ISI chief was asked to come to show him the "proof" that they have...



Agreed and Pak PM agreed.


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## ejaz007

*ISI chief to visit India for help in Mumbai attacks probe*
New Delhi | Friday, Nov 28 2008 IST


Chief of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), Lieutenant General Ahmad Shuja Pasha, will come to India to assist Indian authorities probe the Mumbai terror attacks. *The decision by Pakistan to send Lt Gen Pasha to India follows a request by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to his Pakistani counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani during a telephonic conversation today.* The Pakistan Prime Minister had telephoned Dr Singh to express strong condemnation of the Mumbai terror incident and extended his government's full support to jointly combat extremism and terrorism.

Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari also telephoned Dr Singh to express solidarity with India in the fight against terrorism. Dr Singh had yesterday said the ''well-planned and well-orchestrated attacks,'' had ''external linkages.'' ''...It is evident that the group which carried out these attacks, based outside the country, had come with single-minded determination to create havoc in the commercial capital of the country,'' the Prime Minister said in a televised address, in what is seen as an allusion to Pakistan.


http://news.webindia123.com/news/Articles/India/20081128/1115933.html


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## ejaz007

Kumar said:


> Agreed and Pak PM agreed.



Your nonsense has been answered.


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## PeaceForAll

ejaz007 said:


> According to our PM and he is much better informed than your news people the request has been made and accepted by Pakistan.



There s a mismatch between the Pak's version and the India's version so lets just put it away for now instead of sparring on it. Lets just analyse what kind of people can this be...

1) They had definite training to take commandos etc for 50+ hrs so they are highly trained and motivated
2) I heard the voice of the terrorist who was talking to one Indian channel, and the accent is definitely Punjabi - I do not know if I can point it to a Pakistani - but definitely not south Indian (All my Indian friends are south Indians and their urdu sucks - even their Hindi sucks- not like the movies I see). Could be someone from Kashmir.
3) They came with almonds and dry fruits so they cam eplanned for a siege that is prolonged, do u think they actually planned to get out of this by using hostages?


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## ejaz007

*India rejects Pakistan's help for probe in terror attacks*
Mumbai | Friday, Nov 28 2008 IST


Union Minister of State for Home Sriprakash Jaiswal today said India will not seek the help of any foriegn country to probe the terrorist attacks that shook the financial capital of the country since Wednesday night.

The statement came in wake of Pakistan secret service chief Lt Gen Shuja Pasha's offer to help the Indian goverment to probe this matter.

While speaking to reporters at the Sahyadri Guest House here, Mr Jaiswal said the Maharashtra Anti Terrorism Squad (ATS) was capable of handling the probe and the Central investigating agencies would help them, if required.

He also said the attacks were pre-planned, but hastened to add that ''we are capable of handling the situation.'' 

http://news.webindia123.com/news/articles/India/20081129/1116228.html

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## ejaz007

So Indians running away from joint investigation. They fear perhaps in the end their own army personnel shall be found involved.


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## Kumar

ejaz007 said:


> Your nonsense has been answered.



Pakistan's Gilani to Send Spy Agency Chief to Mumbai
By Ayaz Gul 
Islamabad
28 November 2008
Gul report - Download (MP3) 
Gul report - Listen (MP3) 

Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani says Indian leaders must not blame his country for this week's deadly terror attacks in Mumbai. And in an unprecedented move, he has agreed to send the chief of Pakistan's top spy agency to India to help investigate the violence. Ayaz Gul reports from Islamabad. 

VOA News - Pakistan&#39;s Gilani to Send Spy Agency Chief to Mumbai

Is this ur nonsense!!!!!!!


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## ejaz007

PeaceForAll said:


> 3) They came with almonds and dry fruits so they cam eplanned for a siege that is prolonged, do u think they actually planned to get out of this by using hostages?



And they informed RAW about their planning right. Almonds and dry fruits. Come up with some thing better than this.


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## PeaceForAll

who can be trained so much? I was amazed how these few people could hold so many army personnel for so much time!!


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## Indicom

Ops over,all terrorists sent to jannat to screw 72 virgins(donnow maybe more)and spend a better afterlife than the earlier one.


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## PeaceForAll

ejaz007 said:


> And they informed RAW about their planning right. Almonds and dry fruits. Come up with some thing better than this.




Dude, am not with the Indians so spare the hits on me. I am just seeing the Indian news channels as I am amazed at the things gng on there and taking the "proof" these people give on their face value - I am not saying they are true, am not saying they are false - am just trying to analyse, if this were true, what would it mean. and am not aiming this at any member in this forum.


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## Indicom

PeaceForAll said:


> who can be trained so much? I was amazed how these few people could hold so many army personnel for so much time!!


The fear of indiscriminate killing of the hostages slowed down the operations on every spots.


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## ejaz007

PeaceForAll said:


> who can be trained so much? I was amazed how these few people could hold so many army personnel for so much time!!



Its not that they are very well trained its the reverse for the Indian army personnel. They were sent in hurry without proper information and strategy.

I even saw news channerl where it was reported that they did not even had the maps of the hotels and were relying on hotel staff for guidance.

That not the way to conduct anti terrorism operations.


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## Kumar

Ajmal has revealed the name of his fellow jihadis all Pakistani citizens as Abu Ali, Fahad, Omar, Shoaib, Umer, Abu Akasha, Ismail, Abdul Rahman (Bara) and Abdul Rahman (Chhota). 


Is this pakistan names ?????

Somebody on this forum told AJAML ISMAIL from FARIDAKOT PAKISTAN is not a pakistan name ?


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## Awesome

*Locking this thread, since the siege is over and for some reason its extracting the worst in our members. Now we can't talk about the events surrounding this incident in other threads.*


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## ejaz007

*Mumbai attacks not Indias 9/11*

WASHINGTON: While the Indians will have a strong incentive to link the Mumbai attacks to Al Qaeda, but this is a domestic issue. This is not Indias 9/11, according to a US South Asia expert.

Christine Fair, senior political scientist at the RAND Corporation, told the New York Times that the identity of the terrorists could not yet be known. She pointed to Indias domestic problems, and long tensions between Hindus, who make up about 80 percent of Indias population of 1.13 billion, and Muslims, who make up 13.4 percent. There are a lot of very, very angry Muslims in India, Fair said. The economic disparities are startling and India has been very slow to publicly embrace its rising Muslim problem. You cannot put lipstick on this pig. This is a major domestic political challenge for India. The public political face of India says, Our Muslims have not been radicalised. Fair added, But the Indian intelligence apparatus knows thats not true. Indias Muslim communities are being sucked into the global landscape of Islamist jihad. Indians will have a strong incentive to link this to . But this is a domestic issue. This is not Indias 9/11. khalid hasan


Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## EagleEyes

Kumar said:


> Ajmal has revealed the name of his fellow jihadis all Pakistani citizens as Abu Ali, Fahad, Omar, Shoaib, Umer, Abu Akasha, Ismail, Abdul Rahman (Bara) and Abdul Rahman (Chhota).
> 
> 
> Is this pakistan names ?????
> 
> Somebody on this forum told AJAML ISMAIL from FARIDAKOT PAKISTAN is not a pakistan name ?




It is kind of funny that a terrorist would give up names like that. The terrorist among those terrorists, who fought until the last breath and courageously (i cant believe i have to use this word for scum bags). I definitely see a third party hand to make the situation between Pakistan and India worst. 

While its good to see that top officials are cooperating to figure out this incident, it is also sad to see people like above and the other Indian national spicy new agencies trying to use this as a moment to create confrontation between the two nations.

And of course there are countries like Israel who are sending out medical supplies and medical team to Mombay show their grievousness of this incident *cough* *cough*.

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## Flintlock

*
Mumbai: Behind the attacks lies a story of youth twisted by hate*
*
The intense poverty and extreme religious culture of the southern Punjab have made the region a hotbed for Islamist terror groups.* It is, claim the Indian media, the seedbed of last week's slaughter in Mumbai. Jason Burke travelled to the twin towns of Bahawalpur and Multan, home of alleged killer Mohammad Ajmal Mohammad Amin Kasab, to discover what impels young men to unleash carnage.

The pitted roads around Multan, the city of saints, stretch flat across the fields. They lead past rundown factories, workshops, shabby roadside teashops and mile after mile of flat fields broken only by the mud and brick houses of the villages of Pakistan's rural poor. One road leads south-east to the nearby city of Bahawalpur, the biggest recruiting base of the militant groups currently being blamed by India for the Mumbai attack; another leads north-west to Faridkot, the home village of Mohammad Ajmal Mohammad Amin Kasab, a 21-year-old Pakistan national named yesterday in the Indian media as the only gunman involved in last week's atrocity now alive and in custody.

Already a picture claimed by the Indian media to be Kasab, showing a young man dressed in combat trousers, carrying a backpack and an AK47, on his way to to Mumbai's main station to carry out his deadly work, has become an iconic image of the assault on the city.

Two other militants have been named. Like Kasab, according to the Indian media reports, they are said to be from the Multan region, southern Punjab. They, too, are said to be members of the Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba (Army of the Pure) and to have followed a five-month training period to prepare them for the attack. The charge of the group's involvement, denied by its spokesmen, has explosive political consequences for the volatile region and must be treated with caution. In the long-running contest between India and its neighbour, propaganda and misinformation is far from rare. But if the details now emerging are confirmed, the link to Pakistan may spark war.*

For though it is widely acknowledged that Pakistan's civilian government has limited control over local militant groups, it is clear that Pakistan's military and security establishment does.*
*
Lashkar-e-Taiba was originally founded with the support of the Pakistani military intelligence service, the ISI, to fight as 'deniable' proxies in the contested territory of Kashmir, part of a decades-old strategy by the militarily weaker Pakistan to 'bleed' its bigger rival.* The ISI also has connections with Jaish-e-Mohammed, the second group that New Delhi security officials has accused of involvement in the Mumbai attacks.

For the moment little is known about the three men named yesterday or their accomplices. But their place of origin comes as no surprise to experts. Both Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed draw the majority of their recruits from the southern Punjab. Last week The Observer travelled to the twin towns of Multan and Bahawalpur, the centres of the region, to investigate the reality of the groups' power on the ground, their relations with the Pakistani intelligence services and the factors which drive young men, possibly including the Mumbai gunmen, to join them.

Trace a line from where US special forces battle Taliban fighters in the corner of empty desert where the Afghan, Pakistani and Iranian frontiers meet, follow it through the badlands of the Pakistani North West Frontier and on through the bomb-blasted cities of northern Pakistan and down through Delhi, attacked in September, to shell-shocked Mumbai, and one thing becomes clear: this zone has displaced the Middle East as the new central front in the struggle against Islamic militancy. The southern Punjab falls on the line's centre point. There may be doubt over the identity of the attackers, but there is none that Multan and Bahawalpur and villages such as Faridkot are in the Indians' sights.

For most militants in the region the story - and that of Azam Amir Kasab is unlikely to be very different - starts at school. The southern Punjab has one of the highest concentrations of religious schools or madrassas in south Asia. Most teach the ultra-conservative Deobandi strand of Islam that is also followed by the Afghan Taliban and, crucially in this desperately poor land, offers free classes, board and lodging to students.

In Bahawalpur the Jaish-e-Mohammed group, believed responsible for a string of brutal attacks across south Asia, including the murder of Jewish American journalist Daniel Pearl, has been linked to two such madrassas. One is the headquarters of the group - a semi-fortified and forbidding complex in the centre of the town. The other is the Dar-ul-Uloom Medina, where the brother-in-law of Rashid Rauf, the Bahawalpur-based suspected British militant thought to have been killed in an American missile attack eight days ago, is a teacher. *Surrounded by some of the 700 students, he told The Observer that 'jihad' was the duty of all his young charges.*

*The pupils at the more radical Bahawalpur and Multan schools grow up soaked in extremist ideology. The most senior cleric in Bahawalpur, Maulana Riaz Chugti, said his students could only go 'for training or to fight' after their studies or when the schools were shut for the holy month of Ramadan.*
*
'To fight in Afghanistan or Kashmir and to struggle against the forces who are against Islam is our religious duty,' Chugti, who oversees the education of 40,000 students, told The Observer.*

In Bahawalpur both the effects and the limits of the recent reversal of policy by the ISI, the powerful Pakistani military intelligence service, are evident. A crackdown on the militant groups was launched after they were blamed for a bloody attack on the Indian parliament in 2001 which almost brought India and Pakistan to open war. The groups, previously seen as a strategic asset, were suddenly seen as, at least for the moment, a liability. When their operatives were linked to plots to assassinate the then President, and evidence of collusion with al-Qaeda itself became clear, the pressure mounted on the ISI to rein in their former protégés.
*
'The militants have had to lower their profile,' said one local security official. 'They are no longer recruiting or preaching or raising funds openly. Things are much more difficult for them. If they recruit at all they do it individual by individual, not en masse like before. There is no production line.'*

But the groups - along with break-away outfits with their roots in sectarian Shia-Sunni violence in the region - still have a significant presence in the region, particularly in remote villages such as that of Azam Amir Kasab. 'They may be semi-retired, but in my village there are 300 men who have fought in Afghanistan and have training and can be activated with one phone call,' one local former militant said. That fighters for one operation should come from the same place was not surprising. 'When I went to Afghanistan I went with five guys who I knew from school,' he said.

The young men of the southern Punjab have been found across a broad swath of south Asia and even further afield. In Kabul in August, The Observer interviewed Abit, a 23-year-old from Bahawalpur who had surrendered to Afghan police seconds before he was supposed to blow himself up in a huge truck bomb. Other militants from the town have been found as far away as Bangladesh. Lashkar-e-Taiba members have even been located in Iraq.

The groups are also of great interest to British intelligence services, who fear their key role as intermediaries between young volunteers from the UK's Muslim community - such as Rauf - and al-Qaeda leaders based in the volatile tribal zones along Pakistan's western frontier. The groups, the sources say, have a UK support network to supply funding.

The groups' relationship with the intelligence services is complex. Front organisations for the groups have even put up candidates in recent elections and travel without fear throughout Pakistan. Earlier this year The Observer interviewed a representative of one group alleged to be linked to Lashkar-e-Taiba in the foyer of a luxury Lahore hotel.

Local politicians said groups in the region were still powerful enough to intimidate the local government and security forces and even to collect tax or mediate in legal disputes in some areas. Roshan Gilani, a Shia community leader in Bahawalpur, said music shops had received Taliban-style threats, telling them to close or risk violence. Prominent Shias have been told they are on a hit list.

Until the Mumbai attacks, the recent series of bombings in India had been attributed by most analysts to a home-grown militant outfit: the Indian Mujahideen. With many highly educated and middle-class recruits among its ranks, and led by a 36-year-old computer engineer, the group's members have a very different profile from the Pakistani groups' recruits. But though their paths may be very different, the militants' eventual destination - fanaticism, violence and hate - are the same.

Intelligence agencies have done much research since 9/11 into how individuals become terrorist killers. Dehumanising the enemy is seen as key. *Civilians are no longer seen as innocent but as complicit in a war waged by their governments against Islam. **Group dynamics also play a huge role, particularly when teams of militants are isolated from normal society for long periods of time. Training camps - such as those in which Azam Amir Kasab is said to have spent months - are the perfect way of reinforcing solidarity and the new 'world view' which will allow them to execute murderous operations, such as killing diners in a hotel restaurant in cold blood.*
*
Indian authorities believe local members of the Indian Mujahideen may have acted as scouts to prepare the ground and gather intelligence before the attack.* Security services now recognise that militant groups looking to prepare attacks seek out resources and often enter into temporary coalitions with other outfits when necessary. Though criminal links to Islamic militants are rare, they are not unknown, and there are some suggestions that local underworld networks may have been exploited to get the attackers to the targets by sea.

Mumbai: Behind the attacks lies a story of youth twisted by hate | World news | The Observer

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## General Fujita

PART 1;
YouTube - BrassTacks: Siyasat Aur Pakistan- The Mumbai Fraud Exposed

PART 2;
YouTube - BrassTacks: Siyasat Aur Pakistan- The Mumbai Fraud Exposed Part2

PART3;
YouTube - BrassTacks: Siyasat Aur Pakistan- The Mumbai Fraud Exposed Part3

PART 4;
YouTube - BrassTacks: Siyasat Aur Pakistan- The Mumbai Fraud Exposed Part4

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## Flintlock

I hope the majority of Pakistanis don't believe these conspiracy theories....dear god....

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## was

Flintlock said:


> I hope the majority of Pakistanis don't believe these conspiracy theories....dear god....



and hwo we should believe? ndtv star plus n.modi? your medias fake phone calls fake terrorist statement?remember samjohta bombing pakistan was blames as usually,but things gone wrong and a serving army kernal is arrested

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## superbikez

was said:


> and hwo we should believe? ndtv star plus n.modi? your medias fake phone calls fake terrorist statement?remember samjohta bombing pakistan was blames as usually,but things gone wrong and a serving army kernal is arrested



*WHAT A NICE SHOT DUDE!! GG*


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## General Fujita

NDTV and star tv are dead certain of pakistani involvement and the investigations barely begun. Maybe they should carry out the investigation for the indian goverment considering they seem to know everything sitting in their little dhoti's in the studio.


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## was

General Fujita said:


> NDTV and star tv are dead certain of pakistani involvement and the investigations barely begun. Maybe they should carry out the investigation for the indian goverment considering they seem to know everything sitting in in their little dhoti's in the studio.



man i hate them when they pronounce pakistan hrrrhg


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## General Fujita

Good thing is that pakistan is acting quickly now to gather support from its friendly allies, which is critical. Times like these make apparent who our real allies are.

*Pakistan briefs Turkey over Pakistan-India ties after Mumbai attacks * 


English_Xinhua 2008-11-30 20:16:32 Print 

ISLAMABAD, Nov. 30 (Xinhua) -- Pakistani Foreign Minister Makhdoom Shah Mahmood Qureshi Sunday briefed Turkish Foreign Minister Ali Babacan about Pakistan's relations with India after terrorist attacks in Mumbai. 

Babacan telephoned his Pakistani counterpart to discuss bilateral relations and to share views on regional and global situation, according to a statement by the Pakistani foreign ministry. 

Pakistani leaders are making contacts with leaders of friendly countries and their ambassadors in Islamabad to apprise them of their position over the Mumbai attacks. 

The Mumbai attacks, which killed nearly 200 people, heightened tension with Pakistan as Indian leaders said that elements in Pakistan were behind the attacks. 

"Pakistan was one of the first countries to strongly condemn the terrorist attacks and offered all possible assistance. Pakistan itself is a victim of terrorism and considers it a menace to humanity which must be eliminated," the statement said. 

Babacan lauded Pakistan's role in fight against militant extremism and expressed support to the efforts being made by Islamabad to engage New Delhi constructively, the statement said. 

Pakistani troops and Air Force have been put on high alert in the face of "escalation" by India on the eastern border and the forces deployed on the western frontier could also be pulled back, according to local press reports Sunday. 

In a briefing to the media, senior Pakistani officials Saturday revealed that the United States and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) had also been informed about the possible decision by Pakistan to withdraw its troops from the western border as India was involved in troops buildup on the eastern border in the wake of Mumbai terrorist attacks. 

Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has canceled a trip to Hong Kong to concentrate on addressing growing tensions with India after the Mumbai terror attacks, his spokesman said Sunday. 

Gilani was due to attend the Clinton Global Initiative summit on Dec. 2-3 but his spokesman said that he would instead deal with Indian allegations that terrorists who killed 195 people in its financial hub came from Pakistan. 

"Due to the prevailing situation emerging after the terrorist attacks in Mumbai, the prime minister has canceled his visit to Hong Kong for the Clinton Global Initiative," said Gilani's spokesman. 

Gilani was holding consultations with military and political leaders and would send a special assistant to take his place at the conference, he said. 

Leaders in Pakistan have condemned the Mumbai attacks and pledged action against any group found to be involved, saying that any increase in Pakistan-India tensions would be a victory for the extremists.


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## U-571

this picture completely fits in the frame, every thing is explained!!, well done


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## AliFarooq

When ever theres a bombing, fingers are always pointed at pakistan lol, dam indians are way too desperate for a war. Every time theres a Muslim involved "it was pakistan who did it", indians forgetting that there are Muslims living in india also, and the way the indians treat them, they could do anyhting for freedom. You guyz are really quick to point fingers. You kno pakistan could point the fingers at india, for the same reasons.


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## General Fujita

If pakistan has internal problems then india has even bigger internal problems. Your right about their ill treatment towards the muslims and this has never been more evident than it is in assam province, where the muslims are already fighting for a seperate homeland. Putting all that aside, the really important thing is that our intelligence agencies identified and thwarted the threat by the extreme hindu zionist elements in the indian establishment.


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## Rafael

ghoshh!!! i wonder if shabana azmi and javed akhtar and saif ali khan (senior indian actors) cant get a flat in mumbai...just because they are muslims...imagine how good the ordinary muslims would have been treated. 

and yet they claim they are a secular state...needs some explanation.


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## AliFarooq

forget the muslims, they dnt give the Sikhs teh same status


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## Imran Khan

he is realy a exelent man why not we make him securty cheaf of pakistan


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## Rafael

imran khan said:


> he is realy a exelent man why not we make him securty cheaf of pakistan





who???????


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## U-571

i wonder is he in ISI, second, why doesnt he give proof every tym of wht he says, why doesnt he appear in other news channels or hes not invited????

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## Nihat

ZAID HAMID


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## Rafael

Nihat said:


> ZAID HAMID




Thanks!!! very fast u r...


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## haviZsultan

raheel1 said:


> Thanks!!! very fast u r...



Yes an A+ student from the outset eh?



Dont go by the name though... its not a girl... i think nishat is girls name but not nihat which is actually male version of the name or something...


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## haviZsultan

U-571 said:


> i wonder is he in ISI, second, why doesnt he give proof every tym of wht he says, why doesnt he appear in other news channels or hes not invited????



Here is the proof that mumbai blasts were done by hindu nationalists:

Karkare head of investigation on malegaon blasts was being threatened by them before also and his death was necessary. By eliminating him they have ensured the sadhvi whoever and the army dude do not suffer for their horrific actions against muslims. Other than that some of the terrorists had rakhis on their hands. 

Also this will justify Indian backlash against muslims and will help hindutva parties like the BJP and Shiv Sena win the election that is very close now. The muslims of India do not believe that the bombing was orchestrated by groups in Pakistan because they are smarter and they know this is from the same people who killed gandhiji and want to make India a hindutva state or sumthing...

Ask me i have people back there who i left behind. 

Ain't i right Nihat?


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## U-571

dimension117 said:


> Here is the proof that mumbai blasts were done by hindu nationalists:
> 
> Karkare head of investigation on malegaon blasts was being threatened by them before also and his death was necessary. By eliminating him they have ensured the sadhvi whoever and the army dude do not suffer for their horrific actions against muslims. Other than that some of the terrorists had rakhis on their hands.
> 
> Also this will justify Indian backlash against muslims and will help hindutva parties like the BJP and Shiv Sena win the election that is very close now. The muslims of India do not believe that the bombing was orchestrated by groups in Pakistan because they are smarter and they know this is from the same people who killed gandhiji and want to make India a hindutva state or sumthing...
> 
> Ask me i have people back there who i left behind.
> 
> Ain't i right Nihat?



indians have yet to convince the world abt pakistans involvement and they r trying hard!!, the amusing thing is, they have already named pakistan.


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## haviZsultan

*UJC terms Mumbai slaughter reprehensible
*

MUZAFFARABAD, Nov 29: A leader of militant groups in Azad Kashmir called the slaughter of civilians in Mumbai reprehensible, and denied that any member of his alliance was involved.

Sayed Salahuddin heads the United Jihad Council, an umbrella organisation banding together around a dozen Kashmiri groups.

Suspicion has fallen on non-member Lashkar-i-Taiba which is fighting against Indian occupation of Kashmir. But, it has denied involvement in the Mumbai attacks. Let me be very clear once again that the United Jihad Council does not approve of civilian killings and under its code of conduct such an act is reprehensible, he said.

I can say with utmost certainty that none of Kashmiri jihadi groups has any involvement with the events in Mumbai, he said.

Salahuddin, whose own group is Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, said the attacks in Mumbai were probably carried out by an Indian group in response to the oppression of minorities, including Muslims.Reuters


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## T-Rex

Flintlock said:


> I hope the majority of Pakistanis don't believe these conspiracy theories....dear god....



*If you want to know what Conspiracy theory is, it is pointing fingers at other countries without any evidence and the Indians and their western allies are very good at that !*


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## was

T-Rex said:


> *If you want to know what Conspiracy theory is, it is pointing fingers at other countries without any evidence and the Indians and their western allies are very good at that !*



not only finger pointing, accusing,offensive behavior,insulting,making fake calls,fake terrorist statements,defaming isi pak army and goverment,insulting people of pakistan, in this case
i hope people of india are not stupid to beleave to all the rubbish indian news channels are barking


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## was

they are doing the same thing the us media did against muslims after 9/11 *A HUGE PROPOGANDA CAMPAIGN!!!*
only thingh i can say is: let fool them self


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## pakistanpal

Excellent Analysis.

I think that India and other "friendly" countries should now wakeup and realize that terrorism and terrorists do not have borders.

A terror attack may or may not have initiated from some remote part of Pakistan's soil but that definitely does not mean that it is state sponsored. The whole world is aware that Pakistan is leading the war against terrorism. 

The important thing is that what was Indian security forces and intelligence agencies doing all thus time? The entire world is aware of terrorist threats and try to stay prepared. 

India which is itself plagued with internal conflicts based on religion, caste, skin color, language and every other possible dividing factor should have been more alert unless Indian government was part of this whole Mumbai attacks episode.

You can find several linkages of Indian involvement in these Mumbai attacks that it is shocking how any government could plan something so stupidly.

Links not added

All the links above support that India is riddled beyond repair with internal conflicts and problems. Problems of terrorism, extremism and fundamentalism is so much a reality that it is almost unreal India has survived as a single country (at least in terms of a name). 

With growing Hindu extremism, world should be looking at some major new countries emerging on the world map... all emanating India. Sikhs should be getting their own country, Christians of India definitely need a separate homeland before they completely wiped out / off Hindustan (India) by the ultra extremist Hindus. 180 million oppressed and suppressed Muslims need freedom from the torture of militant Hindu fascist political parties ruling India. 

Incredible India is not incredible at all... we know it, the Indians know it... and soon the whole world will know it!


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## haviZsultan

Nihat said:


> Kyaa Bhaijan
> 
> Itna toh I know about Hindu culture that Rakhi is held in May , itna bada gadha toh maine dekha nahin jo November mein Rakhi pehen ke AK-56 fire karne ayega.



It was yellow band. Check part 1, 5:40 of hamid zaids talk man... he says its saffron band of BJP terrorist group. 

Who wears red organge type bands anyway. Hindu fanatics... everyone knows... 

Look man if BJP wins we'll be raped man and the effects will be felt on the muslim minority. No one has gained from this exept the hindu fanatics and justice has been denied to the muslims of India again as the main investigator of the malegaon blasts is dead and there is no guarantee that the criminals will be brought to book. Only a day before being killed he was threatened by hindu fanatics and was one of the first victems of the attack. His wife knows that it was hindu radicals responsible. 

Also come on be smart. U are being victemized here. U dont have to believe everything Indias media churns out. How many times and for Jama masjid and mecca masjid too it was all Pakistanis or muslims who were blamed. Comeon man how does this possibly make any sense to you and how much will you believe these lies. It is the local muslims of India who are going to be victemized here in the end. 

Ak47 thi not Ak56...


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## Imran Khan

there is no prob in india with muslims they happy please leave them alone.i have friends here hindu and muslim they only have little concern abut bjp but not they dieing for our help or they wait for us its real propegnda for recroot more terarrsts to attack india.feel how more then pakistan there are muslims they know well abut there securty and sefty. in this world 57 muslim countryes why not they think abut indian muslims kashmiris afghans or others .because we intrested more then our home others home.our home pakistan is burning but we addres indian muslims wow what a nation we are.why not turkey saudia egypt sudan uae adress indian muslims are they not a muslim state?because they are not fool .they do best for them not for others.just check when we inter afghans in our country what we get benifits.drugs guns bomb blasts and jobless pakistani.they hold our one prvence and now even we need we can't send them back.and wht they give us back they hate us they blame us and they now kill us.even these kind of actions we see now in wazerstan and swat but until now we never use our minds and just thinking abut indian muslims or other muslims ahhhhhhhhhhh

god bless my pakistan 

god bless my nation

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## genmirajborgza786

_Rice: Pakistan must cooperate in terror probe !_

By ANNE GEARAN, AP Military Writer Anne Gearan, Ap Military Writer 
2 mins ago

LONDON &#8211; The United States has told Pakistan it expects nothing short of complete cooperation in investigations into the terrorist rampage in nuclear rival India, and Pakistan's response will be a test of the will of the new civilian government, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Monday.

"What we are emphasizing to the Pakistani government is the need to follow the evidence wherever it leads," Rice said. "I don't want to jump to any conclusions myself on this, but I do think that this is a time for complete, absolute, total transparency and cooperation and that's what we expect."

At President George W. Bush's direction, Rice is cutting short a European trip to visit India later this week. Attacks spanning three days killed more than 170 people in the Indian commercial capital Mumbai, including six Americans.

Indian leaders pointed fingers at "elements in Pakistan" although it is not yet clear where the well-planned operation originated.

"We share the grief and the anger of the Indian people but of course Americans were also killed in this attack and they were killed deliberately because they were Americans," Rice said during a press conference aboard her plane en route to London. "That makes this of special interest and concern to the United States."

Attackers chose sites representing the city's wealth and tourism, and reportedly sought out Westerners as victims. Rice will see Indian leaders in New Delhi. She does not plan to go to Mumbai.

A previously unknown Muslim group called Deccan Mujahideen &#8212; a name suggesting origins inside India &#8212; has claimed responsibility for the attacks. But Indian officials said the lone surviving gunman, now in custody, told authorities he belonged to a Pakistani militant group with links to the divided Himalayan territory of Kashmir.

India has blamed "elements" from Pakistan for the 60-hour siege during which suspected Muslim militants hit 10 sites across Mumbai. Pakistan denied it was involved and demanded evidence.

India has repeatedly accused Pakistan of complicity in terrorist attacks on its soil, many of which it traces to militant groups fighting Indian rule in Kashmir. The U.S. has tried to persuade Pakistan to shift its security focus from India, with which it has fought three wars, to Islamic militants along the Afghan border.

The Mumbai assaults raised fears among U.S officials of renewed violence between India and Pakistan. Both nations possess nuclear arms.

Rice said Pakistan's U.S-backed civilian president, Asif Ale Zardari, has pledged to improve relations.

Zardari replaced President Pervez Musharraf earlier this year and has established polite but distanced relations with Washington. Musharraf was a military man and a Bush administration ally against terrorism, but that closeness cost him support at home.

"It's a difficult task for this new Pakistani government," Rice said, referring to the way Islamabad will respond to the attacks next door. "They know this is a time to step up to the task."

Rice spoke Sunday with President-elect Barack Obama, their third conversation about India in as many days.

Obama was expected to announce his pick to replace Rice as the top U.S diplomat later Monday. Democratic officials said Sunday that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton would be named.

Rice is to go to India on Wednesday.

The White House announced Rice's trip Sunday, hours after Bush assured India's leader the U.S. government will put it's full weight behind the investigation.

Copyright &#169; 2008 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.Questions or CommentsPrivacy PolicyTerms of ServiceCopyright/IP Policy

Print Story: Rice: Pakistan must cooperate in terror probe - Yahoo! News


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## genmirajborgza786

Rice urges Pakistan to cooperate in Mumbai inquiry

By Sue Pleming Sue Pleming 
17 mins ago

LONDON (Reuters) &#8211; U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Monday urged Pakistan to give its "absolute, total" cooperation in finding those responsible for last week's attacks on India's financial capital Mumbai.

Rice, who is due in India on Wednesday to try and lower tensions with its rival Pakistan, said the United States made clear to Pakistan's President Asif Ali Zardari there must be complete transparency in the investigation into the Mumbai attacks that killed nearly 200 people, including six Americans.

"What we are emphasizing to the Pakistani government is the need to follow the evidence wherever it leads and to do that in the most committed and firmest possible way," she told reporters traveling with her to London, where she will discuss India-Pakistan tensions with Britain's foreign minister.

Indian officials have said the Islamist militants who went on the rampage in Mumbai for three days were from an anti-India group based in Pakistan, a Muslim nation carved out of Hindu-majority India in 1947.

"I don't want to jump to any conclusions myself on this but I do think that this is a time for complete, absolute, total transparency and cooperation and that is what we expect (from Pakistan)," Rice added.

Zardari, whose wife Benazir Bhutto was assassinated by Islamist militants last year, has vowed to crack down if given proof but has urged India not to punish his country for the Mumbai attacks, saying militants have the power to precipitate a war in the region.

Rice said there needed to be the "highest levels" of cooperation by law enforcement and intelligence agencies from both countries.

Rice will drop at least two stops -- Rome and Helsinki -- from a European tour this week and visit New Delhi instead, aiming to ease growing antagonism between two nuclear-armed nations who have fought three wars since 1947.

Asked whether she was concerned these latest tensions could lead to a full-blown conflict, Rice played down the risk.

"This is a different relationship than it was a number of years ago. Obviously they share a common enemy because extremists in any form are a threat to the Pakistanis as well as the Indians," she said.

DIFFICULT TASK AHEAD

But she conceded a difficult task lay ahead for the new civilian government in Pakistan, which has threatened to move troops from its western border with Afghanistan to the Indian frontier if tensions escalated.

"But in speaking to President Zardari and in speaking to the (Pakistani) foreign minister they know that this is a time to step up to the task that they have got."

Some experts say the singling out by the attackers of foreigners in Mumbai, especially Britons and Americans, could be a dangerous emerging trend in international terrorism and Rice said Washington was watching this closely.

"This terrorism threat has been very deep and growing for a long time. We have made a lot of progress against these organizations but yes I do think that this is an element that bears watching and that gives us ... more reason to make sure that we get to the bottom of it and as quickly as possible."

Rice said while bodies were still being identified from the Mumbai attacks, she believed all "known" Americans were accounted for.

"We share the grief and the anger of the Indian people," said Rice. "Americans were also killed in this attack and they were killed deliberately because they were Americans. That makes this of special interest and concern ... to the United States."

Rice will be in Brussels on Tuesday for a meeting of NATO foreign ministers and then moves on to New Delhi, after which U.S. officials said she still planned to make a scheduled stop in Copenhagen to meet Danish officials. 

(Reporting by Sue Pleming, editing by Kate Kelland)

Print Story: Rice urges Pakistan to cooperate in Mumbai inquiry - Yahoo! News


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## genmirajborgza786

from CNN
Rice: Pakistan must cooperate in terror probe
Story Highlights
U.S. tells Pakistan to cooperate in finding perpetrators of Mumbai attacks

Attacks that killed 179 people have strained India-Pakistan relations

Indian official's offer to step down follows resignation of home minister

Suspect says he is from Pakistan, Indian authorities say
(CNN) -- U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has told Pakistan it expects complete cooperation in finding the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks in neighboring India.

"What we are emphasizing to the Pakistani government is the need to follow the evidence wherever it leads," Rice told reporters traveling with her to London.

"I don't want to jump to any conclusions myself on this, but I do think that this is a time for complete, absolute, total transparency and cooperation and that's what we expect."

President George W. Bush ordered Rice to cut short her tour of European capitals this week to visit India after attacks spanning three days killed 179 people in the Indian commercial capital Mumbai.

The attacks have strained India's already tenuous relationship with Pakistan, which says India has yet to offer any proof to support allegations that a Pakistani-based Islamic militant group was behind the massacre.

One captured suspect has told police that he is Pakistani, Indian officials said. Sources told CNN's sister station, CNN-IBN, that the captive has said he was trained by Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, a Pakistan-based terror group allied with al Qaeda.

The suspect also said he and his fellow attackers were told to memorize Google Earth maps of Mumbai's streets so they could find their targets, CNN-IBN reported. Watch how investigators are focusing on the suspect &#187;

But Rehman Malik, head of Pakistan's Interior Ministry, told CNN: "So far what has been shown has been unjust.

"If anybody has used our soil, I give assurance and I assure my friends and people from India that we will take action," Malik said.

In Washington, Pakistan's ambassador to the United States said the attacks could be a chance to improve cooperation and ease "the burden of history" between the longtime South Asian rivals, who have fought three major wars since independence and conducted tit-for-tat nuclear weapons tests in 1998.

"It's important to avoid miscalculations. It's important not to ratchet up tensions. It is important to understand that this is an opportunity for India and Pakistan to work together," Ambassador Husain Haqqani told CNN's "Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer" on Sunday.

Police in Mumbai, located in Maharashtra state, on Monday revised downward the death toll from Wednesday's attacks and the sieges that followed to 179 dead and about 300 wounded.

At least 28 foreigners were among the victims, including six Americans and eight Israelis. Victims share their tales of survival and escape &#187;

The official death toll does not include at least nine gunmen killed in three days of battles with police and the Indian military, police said Monday.

A second Indian official offered his resignation Monday in the wake of the attacks. Vilasrao Deshmukh, chief minister of the state of Maharashtra where Mumbai is located, said he would leave it up to his ruling Congress party to decide whether his resignation would be accepted.

His announcement followed Sunday's resignation of federal Home Minister Shivraj Patil, who quit amid criticism of the response to the attacks.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh accepted the resignation of Patil, the home minister, and named Finance Minister P. Chidambaram to take over the post.

Indian officials allege that in the 1990s, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba was a state-sponsored terror group used by the Pakistani government to get control of the disputed northern Kashmir region. Pakistan banned the group in 2002, after an attack on India's parliament that brought the two countries to the brink of war.

The Indian government is considering suspending the five-year old cease-fire with Pakistan and perhaps even ending the dialogue process with the country, CNN-IBN reported.

Pakistani security officials also told CNN that if tensions with India escalate, it may shift its military forces from the Afghan border east to prepare for any conflict.

Pakistan's new democratic government, which took office earlier this year, is battling its own insurgency along the rugged border with Afghanistan, where U.S. and NATO troops have been fighting al Qaeda and Taliban militants since al Qaeda's 2001 attacks on New York and Washington.

Haqqani said the militants want India and Pakistan to remain "at each other's throats so they can flourish," but he said his government has seen no sign of an Indian buildup along the border.

Interpol had said it would send a delegation to India to aid in the investigation. But on Sunday, the international law enforcement agency was still waiting official permission into the country, a spokesman said.

The targets of the attacks included luxury hotels packed with foreign tourists. The 105-year-old Taj Mahal hotel was the site of the attackers' final stand, as gunmen held hostages and refused to leave the facility. Watch the destruction left at the hotel &#187;

CNN's Nic Robertson, Andrew Stevens, Mallika Kapur, Harmeet Shah Singh, Saeed Ahmed, Sara Sidner, Alessio Vinci, Reza Sayah and Paula Newton contributed to this report.

All AboutIndia &#8226; Pakistan &#8226; Mumbai &#8226; Terrorism
Find this article at: 
Rice: Pakistan must cooperate in terror probe - CNN.com


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## genmirajborgza786

India warns of 'grave setback' to Pakistan ties !
by Salil Panchal Salil Panchal 
11 mins ago

MUMBAI (AFP)  India warned Monday that the Mumbai attacks had dealt a "grave setback" to relations with Pakistan, as the United States urged Islamabad to show "absolute" cooperation with India's probe into the assault.

"What has happened is a grave setback to the process of normalisation of relations and the confidence-building measures with Pakistan," Minister of State for External Affairs Anand Sharma told AFP.

Sharma said the Islamist gunmen who launched their devastating attack on India's financial capital on Wednesday evening were "all from Pakistan" and stressed that it was time Islamabad delivered on its promise to prevent Pakistani soil being used for attacks on India.

India and Pakistan, both armed with nuclear weapons, have fought three wars and were on the brink of a fourth over a 2001 militant assault on the Indian parliament.

Pakistan has denied any involvement in the latest bloodshed which left more than 170 dead and threatens to derail a slow-moving peace process launched in 2004. Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari has urged India not to "over-react."

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who is due to visit India on Wednesday, said it was crucial that Pakistan be seen to fully cooperate with the Indian investigation.

"I don't want to jump to any conclusions myself on this but I do think that this is the time for a complete, absolute, total transparency and cooperation and that is what we expect," she told reporters accompanying her on a trip to Europe.

"What we are emphasising to the Pakistani government is the need to follow the evidence wherever it leads and to do so in the most committed and firmest possible way," she said.

Maharashtra Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh said Monday he had offered to resign amid widespread public anger over perceived intelligence and security failings that contributed to the bloodshed.

"If the responsibility of the attacks is on the chief minister, then I will go," Deshmukh told reporters. His deputy, R.R. Patil, had stepped down earlier in the day.

The most high-profile political casualty has been Interior Minister Shivraj Patil who resigned on Sunday after "owning moral responsibility" and has been replaced.

India's powerful national security adviser offered to quit but will likely stay put.

With a sense of normality only slowly returning to Mumbai, the focus has turned to who might be responsible for the brazen grenade and gun assault on two luxury hotels, a hospital, a railway station, a Jewish centre and other sites.

Indian government sources said New Delhi was almost totally convinced that the attack was carried out by Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba, with assistance from sections within Pakistan's powerful spy service.

Lashkar, which has been battling Indian troops in Kashmir, was banned by Pakistan in 2002 -- but the Indian sources said that ban has never been enforced.

Pakistan has repeatedly underlined that it is fighting its own battle against Islamist insurgents, who have taken their bloody campaign to the heart of the Pakistan capital, and stressed the two nations have a common enemy.

"Even if the militants are linked to Lashkar-e-Taiba, who do you think we are fighting?" Zardari told Monday's Financial Times, noting that Pakistan was battling a welter of militant groups along its border with Afghanistan.

At least 172 people were killed and almost 300 were wounded in the 60-hour assault in Mumbai. A Jewish centre was among the targets, and eyewitnesses said some attackers singled out Britons and Americans. 

Tension between India and Pakistan date to the post-independence partition of India in 1947 that created the Islamic state of Pakistan and led to horrific bloodletting between Muslims and Hindus. 

India has also had its share of homegrown unrest, from Muslims to Maoists to Hindu extremists, and Indian officials have repeatedly declined to blame Pakistan directly for the Mumbai attacks. 

"We have had terrorist attacks before... but this attack was different," Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said on Sunday. "They came with the explicit aim of killing large numbers of innocent civilians, including foreign visitors."


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## genmirajborgza786

_ holy sh#t things are getting dangerously ugly_ firstly Pakistan needs to get rid of this mr. good for nothing 10% & gang and needs a strong leadership with excellent diplomatic maneuvering to handle this critical period.


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## genmirajborgza786

Mumbai attacks probed as India-Pakistan relations strained
Story Highlights
NEW: Official's offer to step down follows resignation of home minister

Suspect says he is from Pakistan, Indian authorities say

Report: India considering suspending five-year-old cease-fire with Pakistan

179 killed, about 300 wounded during attacks, according to federal officials

MUMBAI, India (CNN) -- A second Indian official offered his resignation Monday in the wake of last week's deadly terrorist attacks as Pakistan urged its nuclear neighbor to withhold blame until further investigation.

Vilasrao Deshmukh, chief minister of the state of Maharashtra where Mumbai is located, said he would leave it up to his ruling Congress party to decide whether his resignation would be accepted.

His announcement followed Sunday's resignation of federal Home Minister Shivraj Patil, who quit amid criticism of the response to Wednesday's attacks that left 179 dead.

The attacks have damaged India's already strained relationship with Pakistan, which says India has yet to offer any proof to support allegations that a Pakistani-based Islamic militant group was behind the massacre.

One captured suspect has told police that he is Pakistani, Indian officials said. Sources told CNN's sister station, CNN-IBN, that the captive has said he was trained by Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, a Pakistan-based terror group allied with al Qaeda.

The suspect also said he and his fellow attackers were told to memorize Google Earth maps of Mumbai's streets so they could find their targets, CNN-IBN reported. Watch how investigators are focusing on the suspect »

But Rehman Malik, head of Pakistan's Interior Ministry, told CNN, "So far what has been shown has been unjust."

"If anybody has used our soil, I give assurance and I assure my friends and people from India that we will take action," Malik said.

In Washington, Pakistan's ambassador to the United States said the attacks could be a chance to improve cooperation and ease "the burden of history" between the longtime South Asian rivals, who have fought three major wars since independence and conducted tit-for-tat nuclear weapons tests in 1998.

"It's important to avoid miscalculations. It's important not to ratchet up tensions. It is important to understand that this is an opportunity for India and Pakistan to work together," Ambassador Husain Haqqani told CNN's "Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer" on Sunday.

Police in Mumbai, located in Maharashtra state, on Monday revised downward the death toll from Wednesday's attacks and the sieges that followed to 179 dead and about 300 wounded.

At least 28 foreigners were among the victims, including six Americans and eight Israelis. Victims share their tales of survival and escape »

The official death toll does not include at least nine gunmen killed in three days of battles with police and the Indian military, police said Monday.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh accepted the resignation of Patil, the home minister, and immediately named Finance Minister P. Chidambaram to take over the post, according to a source in the prime minister's office.

Patil, whose ministry oversees internal security, had been accused of failing to improve intelligence before the attacks, said N. Ram, editor-in-chief of The Hindu, a major Indian newspaper.

"This man has been widely criticized for not being up to it and it was simply impossible that he could stay on after this," Ram said.

Indian officials allege that in the 1990s, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba was a state-sponsored terror group used by the Pakistani government to get control of the disputed northern Kashmir region. Pakistan banned the group in 2002, after an attack on India's parliament that brought the two countries to the brink of war.

The Indian government is considering suspending the five-year old cease-fire with Pakistan and perhaps even ending the dialogue process with the country, CNN-IBN reported.

Pakistani security officials also told CNN that if tensions with India escalate, it may shift its military forces from the Afghan border east to prepare for any conflict.

Pakistan's new democratic government, which took office earlier this year, is battling its own insurgency along the rugged border with Afghanistan, where U.S. and NATO troops have been fighting al Qaeda and Taliban militants since al Qaeda's 2001 attacks on New York and Washington.

Haqqani said the militants want India and Pakistan to remain "at each other's throats so they can flourish," but he said his government has seen no sign of an Indian buildup along the border.

"However, if there is any troop buildup on our eastern border, we will certainly have to take defensive positions. And, unfortunately, that may mean bringing troops from the western border," he said. "We don't want it. We know India doesn't want it. And we know that the international community doesn't want it."

U.S. President George Bush spoke to Singh on Sunday. Noting that U.S. citizens were among those killed, the president "said that we would all be working together, with the international community, to go after these extremists," according to a statement from National Security Council spokesman Gordon Johndroe.

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was scheduled to arrive in India on Wednesday in the wake of the attacks, the White House said.

Rice was scheduled to depart Sunday night for an already scheduled trip to London, said Press Secretary Dana Perino in a statement. Rice will attend a NATO meeting on Tuesday before traveling to India, where she is expected to arrive in New Delhi on Wednesday.

Interpol had said it would send a delegation to India to aid in the investigation. But on Sunday, the international law enforcement agency was still waiting official permission into the country, a spokesman said.

The targets of the attacks included luxury hotels packed with foreign tourists. The 105-year-old Taj Mahal hotel was the site of the attackers' final stand, as gunmen held hostages and refused to leave the facility.

The chairman of the company that owns the hotel told CNN that the company had been warned about the possibility of a terrorist attack before the massacre.

The hotel heightened security as a result, the chairman of the Tata Group and Taj Hotels, Ratan Tata, said in a taped interview with Fareed Zakaria on CNN's "GPS." There were indications, though, that the hotel relaxed security before the attack.

"It's ironic that we did have such a warning and we did have some measures," Tata said. "People couldn't park their cars in the portico where you had to go through a metal detector."

"But if I look at what we had -- which all of us complained about -- it could not have stopped what took place. They didn't come through that entrance," he said. Watch the destruction left at the hotel »

"They came from somewhere in the back. They planned everything," he said of the attackers. "I believe the first thing they did, they shot a sniffer dog and his handler. They went through the kitchen, they knew what they were doing."


Mumbai attacks probed as India-Pakistan relations strained - CNN.com


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## Awesome

It would be a good riddance to get rid of terrorist elements from our society. Who do these blind SOBs think we've been fighting for 8 years now? But obviously there should be some level of evidence which can be proven in a court of law.


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## Anwar2

The ISI chief was summoned to India, and our government agreed in less than 5 minutes. Our Foreign minister was on Indian soil, and was grilled by the media for 3 days. India considers Pakistan as another Bhutan. What next? do they expect our Army chief to report to GHQ in Delhi?

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## Kharian_Beast

One man's terrorist is another man's covert operative. Never forget that mates.


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## BanglaBhoot

Rice says Pakistan must cooperate fully with India in terrorism investigation

By ANNE GEARAN AP Military Writer | AP

Dec 1, 2008

(LONDON) The United States has told Pakistan it expects nothing short of complete cooperation in investigations into the terrorist rampage in nuclear rival India. Pakistan's response will be a test of the will of the new civilian government, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Monday.

"What we are emphasizing to the Pakistani government is the need to follow the evidence wherever it leads," Rice said. "I don't want to jump to any conclusions myself on this, but I do think that this is a time for complete, absolute, total transparency and cooperation and that's what we expect."

At President George W. Bush's direction, Rice is cutting short a European trip to visit India later this week. Attacks spanning three days killed more than 170 people in the Indian commercial capital Mumbai, including six Americans.

Indian leaders pointed fingers at "elements in Pakistan" although it is not yet clear where the well-planned operation originated.

"We share the grief and the anger of the Indian people but of course Americans were also killed in this attack and they were killed deliberately because they were Americans," Rice said during a press conference aboard her plane en route to London. "That makes this of special interest and concern to the United States."

Attackers chose sites representing the city's wealth and tourism, and reportedly sought out Westerners as victims. Rice will see Indian leaders in New Delhi. She does not plan to go to Mumbai.

A previously unknown Muslim group called Deccan Mujahideen  a name suggesting origins inside India  has claimed responsibility for the attacks. But Indian officials said the lone surviving gunman, now in custody, told authorities he belonged to a Pakistani militant group with links to the divided Himalayan territory of Kashmir.

India has blamed "elements" from Pakistan for the 60-hour siege during which suspected Muslim militants hit 10 sites across Mumbai. Pakistan denied it was involved and demanded evidence.

India has repeatedly accused Pakistan of complicity in terrorist attacks on its soil, many of which it traces to militant groups fighting Indian rule in Kashmir. The U.S. has tried to persuade Pakistan to shift its security focus from India, with which it has fought three wars, to Islamic militants along the Afghan border.

The Mumbai assaults raised fears among U.S officials of renewed violence between India and Pakistan. Both nations possess nuclear arms.

Rice said Pakistan's U.S-backed civilian president, Asif Ali Zardari, has pledged to improve relations.

Zardari replaced President Pervez Musharraf earlier this year and has established polite but distanced relations with Washington. Musharraf was a military man and a Bush administration ally against terrorism, but that closeness cost him support at home.

"It's a difficult task for this new Pakistani government," Rice said, referring to the way Islamabad will respond to the attacks next door. "They know this is a time to step up to the task."

Rice spoke Sunday with President-elect Barack Obama, their third conversation about India in as many days.

Obama was expected to announce his pick to replace Rice as the top U.S diplomat later Monday. Democratic officials said Sunday that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton would be named.

Rice is to go to India on Wednesday.

The White House announced Rice's trip Sunday hours after Bush assured India's leader the U.S. government will put it's full weight behind the investigation.

Rice: Pakistan must cooperate in terror probe | Newsweek News | Newsweek.com


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

> The United States has told Pakistan it expects nothing short of complete cooperation in investigations into the terrorist rampage in nuclear rival India.


That is what Pakistan has assured India of already.


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## Hayreddin

U-571 said:


> i wonder is he in ISI, second, why doesnt he give proof every tym of wht he says, why doesnt he appear in other news channels or hes not invited????



i think he is from ISI ,,,,,,,,,,,
whether he is or not but he is true patriot n his words giving great courage to nation ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## pkpatriotic

*Secretary Condoleezza Rice's Remarks:En Route London, to India.*

*Secretary Condoleezza Rice*
*En route London, England*
*November 30, 2008*

*SECRETARY RICE:* Given the lateness of the hour, Ill happily just take your questions. But obviously, Im going to go first to London for consultations with the British. This was a previously planned trip on our way to the NATO ministerial, but obviously, given the events in India, and the relationship between Pakistan and India -- we and Britain have very close ties. We have maintained very close contact. Weve cooperated very closely on issues concerning Pakistan, concerning India. And so I think this is fortuitous that Im going to be in London for these discussions.

Im then going on to the NATO ministerial. And as you now know, we will depart the NATO ministerial a little early and go to New Delhi. The President has asked me to do that to express our sympathies with and our solidarity with the Indian people, and to express our absolute determination to help in any way that we can to help end this terrorist threat and to bring those who perpetrated this horrible crime to justice, to  because I would just underscore that we share the grief and the anger of the Indian people, but of course, Americans were also killed in this attack and they were killed deliberately because they were Americans. And that makes this of special interest and concern to the United States.

*QUESTION:* Do you  when  one of the militants who was arrested after the bombing has said that he was trained in Pakistan and was part of one of the two main Pakistani Muslim militant groups. Do you believe the Pakistani Government when they say there was absolutely no Pakistani involvement at all?

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, what were emphasizing to the Pakistani Government is the need to follow the evidence wherever it leads, and to do that in the most committed and firmest possible way. And Ive spoken with President Zardari. Ive spoken with Foreign Minister Mukherjee. Steve Hadley has spoken with his counterpart. And on all scores, the Pakistanis have emphasized their desire to get to the bottom of this and to help in any way that they can. And so I dont want to jump to any conclusions myself on this, but I do think that this is a time for complete, absolute, total transparency and cooperation. And thats what we expect.

*QUESTION:* In your discussions with the Pakistanis, have they assured you that they have played no role in this at all as far as they know? And you said that you were going to be, you know, working together with the Indians to prevent this kind of terrorism threat. How are you going to do that? Do you  are you going there with any specific ideas for the Indians?

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, weve already had very good cooperation with India, and we have a number of U.S. Government agencies that are helping support in any way that we can the investigation. Obviously, information is the long pole in the tent when one deals with terrorist situations. But of course, we have been concerned about this for some time. The embassy bombing in Kabul was reason for concern. And so we will help and cooperate in any way that we can.

In terms of Pakistan, again, the Pakistani Government has said that it will be cooperating, it wants to cooperate, and that its prepared to follow the leads wherever they go. And thats what we expect.

*QUESTION:* Do you think the Pakistani Government should send their head of intelligence in India as it was at first scheduled, and then abandoned? 

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, this is a decision for the Pakistani Government. But I do think that it is extremely important that there be the highest levels of cooperation between Pakistan and India at this point, and that means all institutions. And I assume that there is going to be law enforcement cooperation as well as intelligence cooperation in getting to the bottom of this.

*QUESTION:* Are you concerned that this could escalate Pakistan-India tensions to the point of actual conflict?

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, Id just note that the lines of communication are open between them; that when I speak with the Indians, they talk about the very good initial statements from the Pakistani Government. They have talked on the telephone. This is a different relationship than it was a number of years ago. Obviously, they share a common enemy, because extremists in any form are obviously a threat to the Pakistanis as well as to the Indians. 

So this obviously is a difficult task for this new Pakistani Government. Its still early in the civilian governments existence. But in speaking with President Zardari and in speaking with the Foreign Minister, they know that this is a time to step up to the task that theyve got.

*QUESTION:* Do you have any updates on the number of Americans killed, and do you have any more details on that? There were still people who were at risk.

*SECRETARY RICE:* Yes. And the latest that I have is whats being reported. The number is six, I think, that was most recently reported. There are still unfortunately a bit of a  well, its no longer really a rescue operation, but an operation to identify and  but as far as I know, six. And the word that were getting is, to the best of our knowledge, all known Americans are accounted for at this point.

*QUESTION:* And do you think that this marks sort of a new era in terrorism in some ways because Americans were singled out, as were other foreigners? Are you afraid that this might escalate and that somehow, this was different from other attacks?

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, clearly, Americans were targeted. Brits were targeted; foreigners were, in a sense, targeted by the very targets that they chose. But this terrorism threat has been very deep and growing for a long time. Weve made a lot of progress against these organizations. But yes, I do think that this is an element that bears watching, and that gives us every more reason to make sure that we get to the bottom of it, and as quickly as possible. I think we should sit down -- 

*MR. MCCORMACK:* Okay, guys.

*SECRETARY RICE:* Okay. 

*QUESTION:* Thank you very much. We really appreciate it. 

2008/T30-1
Released on December 1, 2008

*QUOTE:*
*She should discuss with Pakistani counterpart to have their point of view on such issue, in the way prior to visit India.*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Goodperson

CNN video on Indo-Pak tension
Videos: Search for answers in Mumbai - CNN.com


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## batmannow

GEO Pakistan
US has no reason to doubt Pakistan: White House 
Updated at: 2005 PST, Monday, December 01, 2008

WASHINGTON: The United States has no reason to doubt the Pakistani government's assertion that it was not involved in the recent deadly attacks in Mumbai, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said Monday. 

many of our commrades, did posted the same artical, does it make any sense!


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## batmannow

Minister Quits Over Mumbai Intel Failures

December 01, 2008
Australian Associated Press 

India's interior minister resigned on Sunday as anger grew over intelligence failures leading up to the devastating attacks on Mumbai and the government mulled suspending a peace process with Pakistan. 

Home Minister Shivraj Patil said he took "moral responsibility" for the assault by heavily armed Islamic militants, which left at least 172 people dead and transformed parts of Mumbai into a war zone for three days. 

India's powerful national security adviser MK Narayanan also submitted his resignation, officials said, but it was not clear if it had been accepted. 

The Indian government has pointed the finger at "elements in Pakistan", and security sources say they believe most if not all the highly trained gunmen were Pakistani. 

The future of the nuclear-armed neighbours' peace process now appears in doubt. 

"There is a view in the government that India should suspend the peace process... to show that it is not going to take lightly the deadly carnage in Mumbai," official sources told the official Press Trust of India (PTI). 

The government, "including Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, is very upset as it feels that Pakistan has not kept its promise made at the highest level to end terrorism directed at India", PTI said. 

Opening cross-party talks on Sunday, Singh said he intended to boost security, give more funds to anti-terrorism units and set up a federal agency of investigation. 

"We have had terrorist attacks before ... but this attack was different. It was an attack by highly trained and well armed terrorists targeting our largest city," Singh said. 

"They came with the explicit aim of killing large numbers of innocent civilians, including foreign visitors. They sought to destroy some of the best known symbols of our commercial capital." 

Security officials said they believed the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Toiba was behind the extremely well planned assault, which took thousands of Indian commandos, police and soldiers 60 hours to stop. 

Lashkar, which is fighting Indian control of the disputed Kashmir region, was behind a deadly 2001 assault on the Indian parliament that pushed New Delhi and Islamabad to the brink of war. 

But Pakistan, which has fought two wars with India over Kashmir, moved quickly to deny any links with the attacks. Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari urged India not to "over-react". 

Zardari warned that the militants were "looking for reaction" and pledged prompt action against anyone responsible. 

Lashkar, which operated openly in Pakistan until it was outlawed after the September 11, 2001, attacks, has denied responsibility. 

Around a dozen militants launched their assault on Wednesday evening when they split into groups and struck targets across Mumbai, including the main railway station and a hospital. 

Security forces regained control of the city 60 hours later when they killed the last three gunmen holed up inside the Taj Mahal hotel. 

On Friday elite troops had stormed a Jewish centre and killed two gunmen - but found eight dead Israeli hostages. 

Another luxury hotel that was attacked, the Oberoi/Trident, was cleared of militants later in the day, with scores of trapped guests rescued and dozens of bodies found. 

The overall toll was at least 172 people dead and nearly 293 wounded. 

About 30 foreigners were killed including five Americans, two French, two Australians and two Canadians. 

In a telephone call on Sunday, President George W Bush told Singh he had ordered US agencies to devote whatever resources were necessary to help hunt down those behind the attacks, White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said. 

Some militants entered Mumbai by boat, while others had arrived a month ago to stockpile arms and explosives and infiltrate the targets. 

They had enough ammunition to kill 5,000 people and never issued any demands for the hostages' release, officials said on Sunday.


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## JK!

> *India makes protest to Pakistan *
> 
> *India has summoned Pakistan's high commissioner to lodge a formal protest over the attacks in Mumbai. *
> 
> Indian officials have repeatedly said in recent days there is evidence the militants behind attacks that killed nearly 200 people had Pakistani links.
> 
> Islamabad has denied involvement and warned against letting "miscreants" inflame tensions in the region.
> 
> India's new home minister has vowed to "respond with determination and resolve" over the crisis.
> 
> At least 188 people were killed - including 22 foreigners - and more than 200 were injured after the attackers opened fire in several locations, including a railway station, a popular restaurant, a hospital, two hotels and a Jewish centre.
> 
> The attacks on the two hotels - the once luxurious Taj Mahal Palace and Oberoi-Trident - and the Jewish centre resulted in nearly three days of running battles between elite commandos and the gunmen before the sites were secured.
> 
> *'Avoid blame game' *
> 
> India's foreign ministry said it had summoned Pakistan's high commissioner.
> 
> "He was informed that the recent terrorist attack on Mumbai was carried out by elements from Pakistan," the ministry said in a statement.
> 
> India "expects that strong action would be taken against those elements, whosoever they may be, responsible for this outrage," the high commissioner was reportedly told.
> 
> A spokesman for the Pakistani high commission played down the meeting, saying discussions were held in a "cordial atmosphere".
> 
> But there is no doubt India is slowly turning the heat on Pakistan following the attacks, the BBC's India correspondent Sanjoy Majumder says.
> 
> Following the attacks, the focus is on the lone gunman who survived and who is now in police custody.
> 
> According to Indian media reports, Azam Amir Qasab is from Pakistan and linked to the Pakistan-based Kashmiri militant group, Lashkar-e-Toiba, or Army of the Pure. The group denies involvement.
> 
> India's Deputy Home Minister, Shakeel Ahmad, told the BBC it was "very clearly established" that all the attackers had been from Pakistan - echoing similar comments from other officials in recent days.
> 
> Indian Minister of State of External Affairs Anand Sharma called the attacks a "grave setback" to the normalisation of relations with Pakistan.
> 
> Pakistan's Prime Minister, Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani, has said his country "would itself take action against the miscreants if there is any evidence against a Pakistani national".
> 
> But he cautioned India against making allegations in the media. "The blame game should be avoided at all costs as (it) may affect the state of relations between the two countries," he said.
> 
> *The White House says it has heard nothing to suggest the Pakistani government was involved.
> 
> "We have been encouraged by the statements by the Pakistanis that they are committed to following this wherever it leads," spokeswoman Dana Perino said. "We would expect nothing less of them in this instance." *
> 
> *'Deep shock' *
> 
> Indian Home Minister Palaniappan Chidambaram vowed to take action over the attacks
> 
> "I want to assure the people on behalf of the government that we will respond with determination and resolve to the grave threat posed to the Indian nation," he told reporters.
> 
> "I recognise that there is a sense of anguish and deep shock among the people of India. This is a threat to the very idea of India, very soul of India."
> 
> The government is facing growing anger over its handling of the attacks and perceived intelligence failures.
> 
> Maharashtra state's chief minister on Monday joined his deputy and Mr Chidambaram's predecessor in resigning over the attacks.
> 
> According to reports, the personal belongings of 15 men were found aboard an abandoned ship from which the attacks were launched. This has raised questions as to whether all the gunmen have been found.
> 
> Only 10 militants have been identified, but, according to a private TV channel, Azam Amir Qasab apparently confirmed there were 15 attackers.
> 
> Questions have also been asked about India's failure to pre-empt the attacks, and the time taken to eliminate the gunmen.
> 
> A report in the Hindustani Times newspaper said a militant from Lashkar-e-Toiba arrested and questioned in February told intelligence services he had inspected the five-star Taj Mahal Palace and Oberoi-Trident hotels and several other buildings in December 2007.
> 
> Quoted by his interrogator, the militant said he had passed on information to the group's operational commander.
> 
> Also, Reuters news agency quoted Damodar Tandel, head of Maharashtra's main fishermen's union, as saying he had warned the government about attempts to bring RDX explosives to Mumbai by sea but no-one acted on the information.
> 
> Unlike other countries that have been the victims of frequent terrorist attacks, India has no discernible or coherent counter-terrorism strategy that focuses both on the causes of the threat and its prevention, the BBC's defence and security correspondent Rob Watson says.
> 
> Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is reported to have said he plans to increase the size and strength of the country's anti-terrorist forces.



Source: BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | India makes protest to Pakistan


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## Al-zakir

India demands swift Pakistan action over Mumbai | International | Reuters


India demands swift Pakistan action over Mumbai


By Krittivas Mukherjee

MUMBAI (Reuters) - India said on Monday it had called Pakistan's envoy and informed him that deadly attacks in Mumbai were carried out by militants from Pakistan and demanded swift action against those responsible.

Indian investigators said the Islamist gunmen who launched the attacks on India's financial capital, killing 183 people in a three-day siege, had months of commando training in Pakistan.

The fallout prompted a second top politician from the ruling Congress party to resign, amid growing fury among many Indians at apparent intelligence lapses.

The attacks against Mumbai's two best-known luxury hotels and other landmarks in the city of 18 million are a major setback for improving ties between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan.

India fired the first formal diplomatic salvo late on Monday after days of fingerpointing, releasing a foreign ministry statement describing the actions it expects Islamabad to take.

"It was conveyed to the Pakistan high commissioner that Pakistan's actions needed to match the sentiments expressed by its leadership that it wishes to have a qualitatively new relationship with India," the statement said.

"He was informed that the recent terrorist attack on Mumbai was carried out by elements from Pakistan. Government expects that strong action would be taken against those elements, whosoever they may be, responsible for this outrage," it said.

RICE TO VISIT

The White House said U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice would visit India on Wednesday, underscoring the seriousness with which Washington viewed the attacks. [nN30456922]

"I don't want to jump to any conclusions myself on this, but I do think that this is a time for complete, absolute, total transparency and cooperation and that is what we expect (from Pakistan)," Rice told reporters traveling with her to London.

She played down the threat of conflict between two countries, which almost came to war in 2002 after an earlier attack on India's parliament which also was blamed on Pakistani militants.

"This is a different relationship than it was a number of years ago. Obviously they share a common enemy because extremists in any form are a threat to the Pakistanis as well as the Indians," Rice said.

The White House said it had heard nothing from investigations so far to suggest Pakistani government involvement.

"We have been encouraged by the statements by the Pakistanis that they are committed to following this wherever it leads," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said.

Teams from the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation and Britain's Scotland Yard were in Mumbai to help with the probe into the attacks, in which six Americans and one Briton died.


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## smeaglegolum

*Bush sends Condi Rice to India to manage response towards Pak*
1 Dec 2008, 1314 hrs IST, Chidanand Rajghatta, TNN


WASHINGTON: US President George Bush is sending Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to New Delhi this week in a show of American support for India after the terror attacks in Mumbai last week, the White House announced on Sunday.

Rice, who left for London on Sunday night on a previously scheduled trip to attend a Nato meeting, will arrive in New Delhi on Wednesday.

"Secretary Rice's visit to India is a further demonstration of the United States' commitment to stand in solidarity with the people of India as we all work together to hold these extremists accountable," the White House said in a statement.

Rice&#8217;s visit is also aimed at tempering Indian response toward Pakistan and discussing the best options for India and US to act in concert, analysts reckon. Washington is evidently concerned that any unilaterally punitive measures by New Delhi will undermine the US war on terror on Pakistan&#8217;s western front, going by the expression of concern from numerous US lawmakers.

*The Bush administration is also expected to send senior military and intelligence officials to Islamabad to ask for action to dismantle the terrorism apparatus fostered by renegades in the ISI.
*
Rice left Washington even as India&#8217;s foreign secretary Shiv Shankar Menon arrived here to brief US officials about the events in Mumbai and its aftermath. Menon was originally coming here with a wider brief, including possible meetings Barack Obama&#8217;s transition team, but the Mumbai massacre and growing evidence of Pakistani fingerprints in the carnage has infused the visit with a more urgent agenda -- getting the U.S to take the problem of Pakistani terrorism more seriously and initiating action to counter it.

*Among the actions being considered in informal exchanges is to strive for a UN resolution empowering a coalition of affected countries to dismantle terrorist camps in Pakistan, including in Azad Kashmir. Countries affected by these camps include the US, U.K, India, China, and Russia, and because of its victims in the Mumbai massacre, several EU countries and Israel. Such a resolution would send a powerful signal to Pakistan&#8217;s military, which is alleged to have funded and maintained these terror camps through its intelligence agency ISI, that is has antagonized the whole world.*

In a pointed statement over the weekend, President Bush said the ''leaders of India can know that nations around the world support them in the face of this assault on human dignity. And as the people of the world's largest democracy recover from these attacks, they can count on the world's oldest democracy to stand by their side.''

The US President has already ordered a full-scale support, including technology inputs, aimed at helping investigation into the Mumbai massacre. The fact that six Americans (at last count) died in the carnage has also galvanized Washington, which was otherwise distanced from the multiple terrorist attacks India has suffered for years.

On the military front, India is expected to seek the kind of predator technology and know-how the US is using to take-out terrorist infrastructure and jihadi compounds inside Pakistan. Washington is expected to ramp up intelligence aid to India, including technology inputs, under directions from President Bush. New Delhi will also press for greater scrutiny of U.S military aid to Pakistan.

Washington, like New Delhi, is still giving the new civilian government of Pakistan the benefit of doubt over its involvement in the Mumbai massacre. But there seems little doubt where the sympathies of the hard-line Pakistani Army and its intelligence agency ISI lie, and much of the U.S-India dialogue is now focused on understanding the dynamics of the relationship between the civilian and military leadership in Islamabad, which seems to be rupturing.

In a commentary over the weekend, Bruce Riedel, a former CIA analyst and an Obama advisor on South Asia, noted that the Lashkar e Taiba, the principle accused in the Mumbai carnage, was banned in Pakistan in 2002 but continues to operate there under a number of cover names including Jamaat ud Dawah. ''The extent of its continuing relationship with the ISI is much debated. The Pakistani authorities claim none exists but the fact is that the organization has been tolerated in Pakistan despite the 2002 ban,'' he said.

Riedel also said for the first time in sixty years. Pakistan&#8217;s president Asif Ali Zardari has also promised to get (civilian) control over the ISI and ''to stop its policy of both chasing and supporting terrorism in Pakistan.'' But his ability to do so is still very much in doubt, he added. Much of the Indo-US dialogue will now focus on how to strengthen Zardari&#8217;s hands and see if he is genuine in his commitment to wipe out terrorism sponsored by Pakistan&#8217;s military, which ironically has also been much more of a U.S client than the country's political parties.


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## jeypore

> Among the actions being considered in informal exchanges is to strive for a UN resolution empowering a coalition of affected countries to dismantle terrorist camps in Pakistan, including in Azad Kashmir. Countries affected by these camps include the US, U.K, India, China, and Russia, and because of its victims in the Mumbai massacre, several EU countries and Israel. Such a resolution would send a powerful signal to Pakistan&#8217;s military, which is alleged to have funded and maintained these terror camps through its intelligence agency ISI, that is has antagonized the whole world.



If this are not empty words, then Pakistan will definitely have a civil war in there hands.


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## EagleEyes

jeypore said:


> If this are not empty words, then Pakistan will definitely have a civil war in there hands.



You wish.

On the other hand.

Pakistan should tell Rice to not tell us what to do and what not to do. Either that or Rice comments have been taken out of the context. No third world country has the right to demand actions.


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## Chanakya.10

WebMaster said:


> You wish.
> 
> On the other hand.
> 
> *Pakistan should tell Rice to not tell us what to do and what not to do. *Either that or Rice comments have been taken out of the context. No third world country has the right to demand actions.



You wish.

On the other hand.

America will tell pakistan what really it should do or not. As they have done till now, always.

Any single instance where pakistan have dared to say to America that 'NO, i wont do that'.
If any i would really want to kno......


----------



## EagleEyes

Chanakya.10 said:


> You wish.
> 
> On the other hand.
> 
> America will tell pakistan what really it should do or not. As they have done till now, always.
> 
> Any single instance where pakistan have dared to say to America that 'NO, i wont do that'.
> If any i would really want to kno......



Stop being a copy cat. Why dont you do some research by yourself?


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## pkpatriotic

*Remarks With United Kingdom Foreign Secretary David Miliband*

*Secretary Condoleezza Rice*
*London, England*
*December 1, 2008*

*FOREIGN SECRETARY MILIBAND:* Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. And welcome to One Carlton Gardens. Above all, welcome to my colleague and friend, Condi Rice, for her nearly 24-hour visit in the UK. So we&#8217;re delighted to have you back. 

It&#8217;s not like it&#8217;s a quiet time in foreign affairs at the moment, so I don&#8217;t want to tempt fate by saying this is necessarily your last visit to London, but it may be the last occasion I get the chance to say publicly what I&#8217;ve said privately, which is that you have had a record of incredible distinction in all of the posts that you&#8217;ve held in U.S. Government, first National Security Advisor and then as Secretary of State. And you&#8217;ve carried out your task with determination, with incredible energy, and with a resolute focus on getting results. Because I think for you, diplomacy has only ever been about getting things done and making a difference. You&#8217;ve also carried out your task with enormous charm and grace and friendship, and for that we are extremely grateful. And I believe you&#8217;ve always seen the U.S.-UK friendship and partnership as being at the heart of the drive to build security and prosperity around the world. 

There is talk about a successor being appointed, I gather. Suffice to say that you will be a very hard act to follow, Madame Secretary. We&#8217;ve got a series of discussions today and tomorrow morning before you fly off to Brussels for the NATO summit. We&#8217;ve dedicated ourselves over the last hour and a bit to talking about the situation in India. Both of our countries have lost innocent people in the terrible atrocities last week. *Both of us have very strong ties to India and to Pakistan.* And I think we know that violent extremism is a threat to the very integrity of both those countries. And so for that reason, we intend to do all that we can to work to use our influence to ensure that those who are responsible for the atrocities are brought to justice and that the *drive to reconcile India and Pakistan *to build links between those two great countries are taken forward.

Secretary Rice is traveling from here to India after the stop in Brussels. And that will be very important to that shared drive. No doubt over the next nearly a day, we&#8217;ll talk about a whole range of other issues on which we are working closely together, but maybe we can leave that for questions.

*Condi,* if you would say a few words, to say hello to our friends from the press, and then we&#8217;ll take some questions.

*SECRETARY RICE:* I&#8217;ll gladly do that, David. Thank you very much. And I just want to thank you, as my colleague and as my friend, for the wonderful working relationship that we&#8217;ve enjoyed. I do think this is likely my last official visit to London. But it, fortunately, won&#8217;t be my last visit to London, that&#8217;s for certain. And I hope that we can stay in touch. You&#8217;ve brought tremendous energy and skill to this position. 

But I just want to say that you read about, as a student of international politics, the special relationship but you don&#8217;t know really how special it is until you&#8217;ve experienced it. And we have had extraordinary challenges, extraordinary tasks, but also extraordinary opportunities. And I hope that when the final history of this period is written, that it will be said that we dealt resolutely with the challenges, but we also explored and pursued the opportunities, and that we did so on the basis of the great values that unite our country and the great values that, when they are pursued, really do ke not only for a more secure world, but a more just one.

We have indeed had a very good discussion of the tragedy in India and the subsequent events there. David was just in the region. And we had talked shortly after you returned. And I am on my way there. Obviously, this is a time when everyone in the civilized world needs to unite not just in condemnation of these terrorist attacks, but also in a commitment to be decisive in following up whatever leads there are in making certain that the people who perpetrated these attacks are brought to justice. 

It was, of course, a terrible day for India, and we have &#8211; we extend our condolences to the people of India. It was also a terrible day for the United States and for Great Britain and for a number of other countries as we lost nationals. And in the case of Great Britain and the United States, these were people who were singled out because they were British and because they were Americans, and that gives us a qualitatively different character from the point of view, certainly, of President Bush and, as I understand it, the British Government. 

And so we will be working with India. *We intend to work with Pakistan as well.* The people who perpetrated this must be brought to justice. And ultimately, the terrorists have to be stopped because they will keep trying to bring down the civilized values and the civilized world as long as they are not challenged. And that means that challenging them and resolutely going after them is the only choice that we have.

*FOREIGN SECRETARY MILIBAND:* Good. Who wants to fire off? Michael (inaudible) from the Times.

*QUESTION:* (Inaudible) from the Times. President Bush was pretty adamant in the Bucharest summit in April that he wanted Georgia and Ukraine to join NATO, or at least to join the membership action group. Now it seems as if this is not going to be offered to them at the NATO foreign ministers meeting. Was it just the war in Georgia that changed your mind? And will you support the resumption of NATO relations with Moscow?

*SECRETARY RICE:* First of all, let me point back to the Bucharest declaration, which was very clear in its statement of NATO&#8217;s intention concerning Georgia and Ukraine, and that is that Georgia and Ukraine will one day -- will be members of NATO. I think the sentence is actually very clear: Georgia and Ukraine will be members of NATO. 

We believe strongly in NATO&#8217;s open-door policy that states that are prepared for NATO membership and can assume the responsibilities therein should be welcomed into the organization. But there is a long road ahead for both Georgia and Ukraine to reach those standards. And the United States stands resolutely for those standards, meaning that there should be no shortcuts to membership in NATO. 

We have the Ukraine and Georgia commissions, which &#8211; the Ukraine commission has been in place for some time. The Georgia commission was created at our last meeting in Brussels. And we believe that those commissions can be used to continue to help prepare these states for eventual membership in NATO. And so we will be in Brussels tomorrow. I&#8217;m certain that we&#8217;ll have a broad discussion of this. But I think there&#8217;s &#8211; you can talk about tactical difference among &#8211; differences among the allies, but no one wants to see a circumstance in which Ukraine and Georgia are shut out. And that&#8217;s why the Bucharest declaration reads as it does.

And as to the question of NATO-Russia ties, we have, in principle, no problem with the resumption of ties between NATO and Russia. Indeed, there have been, at lower levels, the resumption of those discussions. But it&#8217;s simply a matter of what is appropriate and what was appropriate at a time when, clearly, Russia&#8217;s behavior in Georgia was quite contrary to all of the values and principles on which NATO stands.

*FOREIGN SECRETARY MILIBAND:* I think it&#8217;s worth saying that the heads were absolutely clear when they met in April. They settled the theology of this issue in the declaration. And now the task is one of practice: How do we implement what the heads have decided? And anyone you talk to, not just in NATO, but anyone you talk to in Georgia or in Ukraine, will tell you that there are important practical steps that need to be taken to help boost their own capacity, and that is the first thing that is going to be essential. And I think we can find a lot of common ground about the implementation of the agreement that was come &#8211; that was came to last April.

Yeah.

*QUESTION:* Madame Secretary, you said earlier that the Pakistani Government is a very young, civilian government. *How confident are you that this government is going to get all the cooperation it needs from the Pakistani military and intelligence?*

And Mr. Miliband, the Secretary is going to India this week. Do you plan to go to India, too, in the next few days? 

*SECRETARY RICE:* *We treat the Government of Pakistan as a whole.* And the President of Pakistan is the elected Pakistani President and he has, therefore, the legitimacy that comes with election and that is the legitimacy that comes from the Pakistani people. That is true also of the Prime Minister and, of course, the military serves now in a civilian government. And we expect that that will be the case going forward. We have obviously good contacts with all Pakistani officials from various institutions through our various bilateral institutional ties. But the Government of Pakistan has a legitimate and elected president and that is whom we will &#8211; with whom we will deal concerning the situation. 

*FOREIGN SECRETARY MILIBAND: *I&#8217;m pleased to be able to have the opportunity to report that I spoke with the Indian Foreign Minister just before our lunch today. I obviously expressed the condolences of the British people to the Indian Government and also our thanks for the way they&#8217;ve &#8211; the efforts they&#8217;ve put in to deal with the crisis. I also emphasized how committed we are, not just as a government but as a country, given our very large populations of Indian and Pakistani origin to seeing better relations between India and Pakistan as the foundation of stability in that region of the world. These are two great countries that should be trading -- even sometimes arguing &#8211; but certainly working together. 

And it seems to us absolutely essential that everyone understands now that violent extremism is a *threat to the very integrity of Pakistan*, *but also the integrity and character of India *as the world&#8217;s largest multi-faith democracy. And so the stakes are very high indeed. They are stakes that we are determined to work with the Indian and Pakistani authorities separately. But they also need the Indian and Pakistan authorities to work together. And that&#8217;s real responsibilities for both sides, quite demanding on both sides, to chase down the people who have perpetrated this atrocity to work together at all levels to ensure that this is done and to translate what I think is a popular understanding that these countries have to live and work together into real action together. 

*QUESTION:* Will you be going to -- 

*FOREIGN SECRETARY MILIBAND:* I&#8217;m sorry. I don&#8217;t have any immediate plans, but obviously we keep that under very close review. 

*QUESTION:* Tim Marshall Sky News. Welcome, Madame Secretary. Do you think Hillary Clinton would make a good Secretary of State, regardless of the name and the position? Any words of advice for your successor? 

And Foreign Secretary, do you accept that India has to be seen to respond in robust fashion, that its population demands it after Mumbai? 

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, let me start by saying I suppose the announcement is going to be shortly. I&#8217;ve tried to avoid and to give the President-elect the courtesy of making the announcement. But since we&#8217;re in different time zones, let me respond. 

The first time that I met Senator Clinton was actually a world away from Washington, when she brought her freshman daughter to Stanford University where I was provost. And so our relationship goes back quite a long way. And I am very fond of her. I think she has worked very hard on behalf of the country. I think she really comported herself very well in the campaign. And she&#8217;s an inspiration to a lot of people and a lot of &#8211; not just women, a lot of people. I know that she will bring enormous energy and intellect and skill to the position. And most importantly, I know her to be somebody who has what you need most in this job, which is a deep love for the United States of America and for its values, a respect for differences that we may have with friends and allies, but always recognizing that the core of who we are as Americans unites us with very many around the world, particularly Great Britain. 

As to advice, I&#8217;ll give her that advice privately, and then she won&#8217;t and you won&#8217;t hear from me again, because &#8211; (laughter) &#8211; I will certainly not make the effort to comment on everything that is done. I think that we&#8217;ve had a good run, but I&#8217;ll tell you something. The two-year term is not a bad idea.

*FOREIGN SECRETARY MILIBAND:* The two-year term?

*SECRETARY RICE:* No, sorry, the two-term &#8211; four years. (Laughter.)

*FOREIGN SECRETARY MILIBAND:* The two-term -- the term limits?

*SECRETARY RICE:* The term limits, American term limits.

*FOREIGN SECRETARY MILIBAND:* Well, we&#8217;re looking forward to today&#8217;s announcement as well. Obviously, Senator Clinton brings an enormous breadth of experience to her role. The point that I would account, I think, is a determination to defy fatalism. She&#8217;s someone who believes that human effort can engineer change, and I think that&#8217;s a profoundly important quality that she shares with Secretary Rice, and it&#8217;s one that I think will bring a great deal to international affairs. And we very much look forward to working with her.

In respect of the situation in India, I think that the Indian people, like people anywhere in the world when they&#8217;re struck by terrorism, want to know that their government develops a plan to tackle that terrorism. That doesn&#8217;t mean symbolic acts. It means real acts with real partners to effect real change. My conversation with the Indian Foreign Minister today was about those real acts that are going to be necessary, not just from India to improve its own defenses, but from its neighbors, notably from Pakistan. 

_And I think it is very important that the whole world says that Prime Minister Singh on the one hand, President Zardari on the other, are two men who are committed to the proposition that India and Pakistan have so much more to gain from working together than from being divided. They know the costs of division between those two countries. Their early work together over the last few months has opened up the economy across the line of control, has developed political talks, and now those are under the greatest possible scrutiny and the greatest possible strain. I think it&#8217;s precisely at this moment of strain and scrutiny that we need very strong statesmanship and leadership to assert that it is joint action and cooperative action that will make the difference between stability and instability. And that&#8217;s certainly what we&#8217;ll be working for._

*QUESTION:* Yes. Madame Secretary, the degree of closeness that both the Pakistani Government -- the proceeding one and the current &#8211; and the Indian Government have had to the United States have been a problem for both of them over the last year in various respects. By going to India now and by highlighting the fact that Americans were killed and that the United States takes special interest in this act as a result, do you risk heightening tensions either between India and &#8211; or anti-Americanism in either country?

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, first of all, Anne, in terms of the relationship with India, we&#8217;ve just been through a kind of banner year for U.S.-Indian relations. The United States spearheaded the reentry &#8211; or the entry of India into the IAEA framework and a civil-nuclear deal that I think was of extraordinary importance to India and is seen to have been as such. And I was just in India, as you know, and I find there that the level of comity and, indeed, friendship between India and the United States is unparalleled, really, throughout our history. 

We also were the ones, along with Britain and others, *who championed the free and fair elections in Pakistan and the coming to power of a civilian government.* And so we have had &#8211; we don&#8217;t always have agreement, but we have good relations with these two governments, good relations with these countries. And when I say that Americans were killed, I&#8217;m stating a fact. I&#8217;m also stating yet another reason why our solidarity with victims of terrorism in India after this latest attack &#8211; or, for that matter, victims of terrorism in Pakistan who have suffered at the hands of these extremist.

I think what it is is a message that this is, for all of us, a great challenge. But it is &#8211; it&#8217;s a war that we&#8217;re all fighting together, because these extremist have gone after Americans, they&#8217;ve gone after British citizens. They&#8217;ve also, of course, killed more Pakistanis and Indians than anyone else.

*FOREIGN SECRETARY MILIBAND:* All right. Thank you very much. Thanks.

2008/T30-2
Released on December 1, 2008


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Chanakya.10 said:


> Any single instance where pakistan have dared to say to America that 'NO, i wont do that'.


Who do you think tried to stop Pakistan's nuclear program, and eventually its testing, and then sanctioned her?

Who do you think tried to stop Pakistan's development of its indigenous missile capability?

Why do you think they are still critical of how Pakistan is handling the WoT on its side?

I have warned you already, don't spout the typical Indian lines to flame here please.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

jeypore said:


> If this are not empty words, then Pakistan will definitely have a civil war in there hands.



Chidu Raj is a jingoistic and virulently anti-Pakistan journalist.

His reports are almost full f distortions and quasi factual, and this observation is from years of reading him.

For example, while most other sources may say that the US and Pakistan held talks on XYZ issue, Chidu Raj's presentation will be along the lines of, "US tells Pakistan what to do on XYZ". etc. etc.

Not the most reliable source by a long shot.


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## jeypore

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Chidu Raj is a jingoistic and virulently anti-Pakistan journalist.
> 
> His reports are almost full f distortions and quasi factual, and this observation is from years of reading him.
> 
> For example, while most other sources may say that the US and Pakistan held talks on XYZ issue, Chidu Raj's presentation will be along the lines of, "US tells Pakistan what to do on XYZ". etc. etc.
> 
> Not the most reliable source by a long shot.



Putting him aside AM, Condiees own words are:

"I don't want to jump to any conclusions myself on this but I do think that this is the time for a complete, absolute, total transparency and cooperation and that is what we expect," she told reporters accompanying her on a trip to Europe.

"What we are emphasising to the Pakistani government is the need to follow the evidence wherever it leads and to do so in the most committed and firmest possible way," she said.

Reading between the line (time for complete, absolute, total transparency), she is actually telling the ISI will need to come clean if there is any evidence. And secondly also reading between the line (Pakistan gov';t needs most committed and firmest possible way) she is actually saying that gov't needs to take over the agency and really go after this rogue terrorist camp.

Would you not agree?


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## pkpatriotic

*Roundtable with Press*

*Secretary Condoleezza Rice*
*Foreign Commonwealth Offices
London, England*
December 1, 2008

*SECRETARY RICE:* All right. Sean, what are our ground rules? 

*MR. MCCORMACK:* Were on the record. 

*SECRETARY RICE:* Okay.

*MR. MCCORMACK:* We have about half an hour. We have to see the Prime Minister.

*SECRETARY RICE:* Great. All right. So why dont we just start around? Richard, do you want to start?

*QUESTION:* Sure. Well, I suppose the big issue thats been occupying our minds for the last week has been, obviously, the events in Mumbai. 

*SECRETARY RICE:* Yes.

*QUESTION:* And I know youre going there on Wednesday. And I guess the big fear now is that this incident is going to spark some new tension or potential conflict between India and Pakistan. And so I suppose I would like to know what youre planning to do to prevent that happening.

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, the most important thing that can happen now is to have absolute commitment on the part of everyone to investigate what happened and bring people to justice for what they did, and in doing so, perhaps, to also learn of any further activities that this group was  might have been involved in. Thats going to require great cooperation between India and those of us who have been active in the war on terror, like the United States and Great Britain. 

And I know that that cooperation is going on, but its also going to require the cooperation of Pakistan. And the Pakistani Government has said that -- President Zardari has said rightly that extremism in any form is a threat to Pakistan, as well as to India. And I fully expect, therefore, the commitment of Pakistan to absolute transparency and wherever the leads go to completely follow them up. And thats just going to be absolutely necessary. The United States, like Great Britain, lost citizens and so we have a special interest in this. And were going to pursue every avenue that we can to find out what happened here. 

So that really is the issue now, and we continue to hope that the Indian and Pakistani Governments will maintain the open lines of communication that theyve thus far had. And we will continue to impress upon them the importance of those open communications, but this is a very serious time for commitment to getting to the bottom of this.

Should we just go around, or -- 

*MR. MCCORMACK:* Yeah.

*QUESTION:* Okay. But my question wasnt on  maybe a bit disjointed -

*SECRETARY RICE:* Okay. Well, do you want -- does anyone want to follow up on India? 

Yeah, sure.

*QUESTION:* Let me just follow up on Richards. What youre outlining  of course, the investigation is very important, but what youre outlining really is just a whole new strategy. Because it is  basically, people in this room are reasonably clear of what sort of results the investigation will throw up. Then the question is *what kind of response from India is proportionate, possible, too dangerous.* The (inaudible) is quite possible if its demonstrated this is done by groups, not necessarily under the control of the Pakistani Government, but operating out of Pakistan. The Indian Government cannot afford to do absolutely nothing in that direction.

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, lets remember that wherever theyre operating from, they are extremists and terrorists who have  who want to destabilize not just India, but also many of them want to destabilize Pakistan. So I think a firm response by the Pakistani Government, should it be demonstrated that some of this was coming in  coming from Pakistan, will be very important. 

I dont want to jump to any conclusions about precisely how this happened. But there are two reasons to this. First, to be really transparent, to be really tough on this and very committed, number one, because people need to be brought to justice. But equally importantly, as we learned with terror incidents of this sort, there are often wider efforts or intentions to do other things, and so you really want to get to the bottom of it, both as a preventive and as a  and bringing them to justice. So I dont think its a holding pattern. I think it is right now the most important thing we can do.

*QUESTION: *Some people are asking the question today, is it possible for the U.S. to say to India that there should be a controlled response to this, when the U.S. itself takes such a robust response to the problem of core al-Qaida in the FATA region and the tribal areas? *Is there a problem?* Does that sort of hamper you in some ways in making the case for a controlled response?

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, what you want to do is to make a response that is going to deal with the problem, first of all, and prevent future attacks, and that is going to -- not going to have unintended consequences and, therefore, make the situation worse. And so I think when you talk about making a response, those very circumstances or those various elements have to be kept in mind. 

And what the Indians have been saying, and we are in full agreement with them, is what they want most right now, what they believe is absolutely critical, is to find out, with full cooperation from Pakistan, how this happened and what these people were planning and how they carried it out. And that is what theyve emphasized, and that is, we think, the right course. So thats how you think about a response, is how do you deal with the circumstances at hand, but how do you also prevent attacks in the future, and how do you bring people to justice for what happened.

I think the Indians also are spending a good deal of time looking at their own capacity to prevent attack, and we will try to be helpful there. But you know, let me just say a word about prevention and warning and all of those issues having been through this. The fact is that the terrorists only have to be right once; you have to be right 100 percent of the time. And thats a tough fight. And so I know that there will be a lot of looking at what the Indian Government might have known or should have known or could have known. But these terrorists are not easy to  they cant be deterred and theyre not easy to preempt. And so we will help on that score as well.

*QUESTION:* *But I mean, do you at all equate the two? I mean, it could  using the same justification that the United States has used for sanctioning cross-border attacks in Pakistan from Afghanistan, *could the Indian Government launch cross-border attacks against similarly determined terrorist cells they find in Pakistan?

*SECRETARY RICE: *Look, Im not going to speculate on what the Indian Government may choose to do, Anne. But the question is: How do you best deal with the fact of the attack, the consequences of it, and prevention of future attacks? And the best way to deal with that would be through cooperation between Pakistan and India, and thats what we are encouraging. And in fact, this is a time for absolute transparency and for letting evidence lead where it may.

*QUESTION:* But the chances of getting full cooperation from an Indian perspective are probably quite slim, arent --

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, I dont think so. I -- it depends on what actually did happen here. *But it also is incumbent upon Pakistan to realize the seriousness of what happened here.* First of all, lets remember that this isnt the first attack. Bad things happened in Afghanistan, to India as well. Secondly, this attack was broad and pretty brazen. And it clearly was meant to target not just  not just to terrorize, but in fact, going as it did after Mumbai, an Indian financial center, hotels that foreigners frequented, to try and shake the confidence of the international community and the safety of India.

And it also, of course, went after Americans and it went after Brits because they were Americans and Brits, and Israelis as well. So this is a qualitatively different  theyre all serious, but this is a qualitatively different set of circumstances than we have seen in the past, and it requires a qualitatively different response on the part of Pakistan.

*QUESTION:* *The attack on the Indian parliament was followed by Indian troops going to the border. Everyone got very concerned.* So do you think that  given that there is huge domestic pressure, there are elections coming in India, do you see that as a potential response? Do you think that the United States could persuade India not to do that?

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, as I said, you -- I think you look at response for effectiveness, what is it going to do about the problem, and not to try to create or not to have unintended consequences in trying to deal with the problem or to create new problems in trying to deal with this one. So I am hopeful, and in conversations with Indian counterparts they are very focused on the -- getting to the bottom of this. And again, its not  it is getting to the bottom of it before the matter of bringing people to justice, but its also getting to the bottom of it to prevent further attacks. And so that is the focus now. 

It is also  it has been a different relationship between India and Pakistan. The relationship has evolved a lot since 2001, and hopefully that will give some space for a joint and cooperative approach to dealing with this very serious matter. But I do not want to under  to diminish the seriousness of what has happened here, and very serious.

*QUESTION:* *Youre going there to show solidarity to the Indians*, but are you also going there to urge restraint on their part so that this doesnt escalate into a much broader -- 

*SECRETARY RICE:* Im going there to show solidarity, but also to talk about what can be done, and should be done, to get to the bottom of this so that this threat can be dealt with in a way that  *you can never eliminate the possibility of further attacks, but that really, really begins to diminish it.*

*QUESTION:* *When you talk about absolute transparencies, doesnt that require President Zardari to admit that he has a problem inside his own state of (inaudible)? Is that something you can really, really stick him to *-- 

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, I think what it requires of Pakistan is to let the evidence fall where it falls and to react accordingly. Because the last thing that this Pakistani  *new Pakistani civilian government needs is to have this continue.* You know, ultimately, Pakistan needs to be seen as a place that has a handle on extremism if it is to grow and prosper and have the good relations around the world that its seeking. And everybody has goodwill toward this government. I was at the Friends of Pakistan meeting at the UN back in September at the UNGA. Theres a lot of goodwill toward this government because this is a new chapter in Pakistan with the civilian government there. And everyone knows that its difficult and everyone knows that this is the  there are historical problems that this government is trying to deal with. But that really is the task before them. *Because if they cant deal with the extremism, then Pakistan is not going to prosper.* 

*QUESTION:* *Does President Zardari have enough authority over his own security agencies to guarantee the kind of cooperation and transparency that youve asked of him?* 

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, he brings something to the table that hasnt been there for a long time in Pakistan, which is the legitimacy of having been elected, and having been elected with a commitment to the rule of law and having been elected with a commitment to civilian rule and control of the security institutions. Everybody knows that one doesnt have day one with a military government and day two with a civilian government and everything works perfectly, right? So Im not trying to paint a picture here of the ease with which this can be done, that this can be done with ease, but this is a critical moment for Pakistan to bring all of its institutions into a common strategy to defend Pakistan. And defending Pakistan means rooting out extremism. Defending Pakistani interests means cooperating fully. Defending Pakistani interest means investigating this so that further attacks can be prevented. President Zardari has said many times that Pakistan itself is suffering more and more from extremism. Well, you cant have different colors of extremism. Extremism is extremism and they come from the same root. And therefore, this is an important time for Pakistan and all of its institutions to defend Pakistani interests. 

*QUESTION:* Did you have any evidence that the people who perpetrated this were possibly trying to weaken the U.S.-led operations against the tribal areas in Pakistan? 

*SECRETARY RICE:* You know, we  I cant say that we have all that much insight into motive at this point. I suppose over time. But again, this is  we have to think of this as a whole. And extremism that has been dealing  has been the (inaudible) this region has several different faces. 

Now, I want to  Ive said a lot about Pakistans obligations here. India also has obligations, which Im sure that they will exercise, to also be transparent and to work closely with the Pakistanis and with the United States and with Great Britain. And I think that they will do that. This is a time for everybody to pull together and take on this event. 

*MR. MCCORMACK:* We have about five more minutes so if there is any other line of questioning. 

*SECRETARY RICE:* Yeah. Yes. 

*QUESTION:* I want to ask you about Guantanamo. Do you think it should be closed down and how difficult would it be to close it? 

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, the President says  he said for a long time that hed like to close Guantanamo. And I think its well-known that Ive been an advocate of that. The problem is youve got 200-plus very dangerous people, and the question is what do you do with them. And these are people who say regularly: If Im let out of here, I will go immediately and start killing Americans again. And so you clearly cant simply release these people on civilian populations. And there are a number of issues with trying to put them into kind of normal prison populations, as you might imagine. So I  weve brought down the population of Guantanamo quite a lot by transferring people back to their homes, their countries of origin. In some circumstances we cant do that because of fear of persecution. When we cant, weve tried to find third country options for them. 

But I think this speaks to a larger issue. John Bellinger, our legal counsel at State, has been doing a lot of work and traveling around a lot to try to get a conversation going about what kind of framework we really do need to deal with this particular threat, where you are having to  where the kind of traditional legal framework, particularly in the United States, in which holding someone on a basis of future threat is difficult, even though you know that this person is a future threat, we dont really have a legal framework for that, which is why its been done within a war framework. But if you dont hold a person who you know is a future threat, then you risk the deaths of thousands of innocents. So I do think that this is something for the international community to take up. And John has gotten a lot of interest from various counsels around the world about trying to look at the framework for dealing with terrorists, both in terms of detention power and in terms of how to deal with information garnered from them so that you are not compromising your ability to actually prevent attack. And I think ultimately this is going to have to require a new legal framework internationally. 

*QUESTION:* Madame Secretary, can we go back to Hillary? 

*SECRETARY RICE:* Yeah. 

*QUESTION:* There are more and more women chosen as foreign ministers around the world. You have been working on womens empowerment. How do you explain the fact that there are more and more women head of diplomacy? Is it that because they are more diplomats or they are more convincing or how do you explain that? 

*SECRETARY RICE:* (Laughter.) No, its a really interesting question. This will be three out of four in the United States, which is pretty remarkable when you think about it. And the other was a black man, so white men are trailing pretty badly. (Laughter.) 

I dont know, Sylvie. Ive long  I used to do work as an academic on something called the politics of elites and that was not about elite people. What it meant was looking at how people actually end up being chosen for different positions and how  what kind of funnel puts people into positions. And I think what youre seeing is that increasingly the pool of people who might become Secretary of State is diverse in the United States. And so you had a black national security advisor, then chairman of the Joint Chiefs, who becomes a major figure and becomes secretary of state. Now, you probably 30 years ago would not have had that person. So Colin Powell is in the pool because hes had these other jobs. 

In the case of my own case, you know, I come out of an academic background, as does Madeleine Albright. But you know, I sign on with an unknown governor from Texas and do the campaign side and end up as national security advisor. So you have more and more women and minorities in those pools. So these things dont come out of thin air. You know, its also the reason, by the way, that I think youre starting to see and will see more women and minority candidates for president. 

Where do we get our presidents? This will bore all of you, but Im sorry for the American history lesson here. But where do we get our candidates for president? Overwhelmingly, senators and governors, the occasional general. So if you dont have blacks and women who are senators, governors or generals, theyre not going to be president. So when you finally get that pool right, then you start to see people rising to those positions. And thats what I really think is happening. I dont think theres some sort of natural selection thats taking place for foreign minister. But I do think youre seeing more and more people in the pool. 

*MR. MCCORMACK:* Okay. We have one  we have one last question. Who hasnt had a question here? 

*SECRETARY RICE:* Yeah.

*QUESTION:* I just wanted to ask about Russia. Youre going to NATO tomorrow. 

*SECRETARY RICE:* All right?

*QUESTION:* Youve already signaled that, and I think President Medvedev has welcomed the fact that Georgia and Ukraine wont be invited to join the Membership Action Plan and that maybe there are other ways, okay. You also earlier at the press conference talked about  it sounded as though you were talking about the time being right to resume talks with Russia within NATO. And I wondered if you could explain within what framework -- 

*SECRETARY RICE:* Yeah, sure. 

*QUESTION:* -- and whether you feel that  whats the (inaudible) of this? Is it because actually the United States has slightly revised its view of what happened in August, that there were mistakes made by President Saakashvili? Is it because there were a lot of other crises; heres one with India and Pakistan, theres the financial crisis? And the last thing one needs is to have a major row with Russia? 

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, first of all, let me just--on the question of NATO contacts with Russia, I said in principle, we dont have any problem with it. I think the timing is really a matter of  is Russia continuing to meet its commitments to President Sarkozy and is Russia acting on its quite ill-tempered decision to recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia? And I think those are the  for me, the touchstones of when it makes sense. 

Now, let me just pick it up there. Ill come back to Bucharest in a minute. Look, this turned out badly for Russia, very badly. Their invasion of Georgia just turned out badly. They didnt  they did not succeed in bringing down the Georgian Government, even though Sergey Lavrov told me that that was one of their aims, they didnt. Georgian democracy is intact. Not only that, they didnt succeed in bringing down the Georgian economy. Georgia now has one of the largest assistance packages for a country of its size that one can remember. So if they did anything, they managed to increase international support for Georgia, not decrease it. Third, they are sitting in Abkhazia and South Ossetia with responsibility for two populations that are difficult at the very least. And finally, they recognized Abkhazia and South Ossetia with the resounding support of Nicaragua and Hamas. Now, if that had happened to the Bush Administration, you would have all been writing headlines about the enormous failure of our diplomacy. So I could add to that the problems that this brought for the already weakening Russian economy given lowering oil prices and the effects of the global financial crisis.

And I think, by the way, it set everybody to questioning what is Russia, who is Russia, did Medvedev have any  was there any substance to Medvedevs claims of wanting to reach out to the world in a different way and so forth and so on. So this turned out badly. And I hope that given that it turned out badly, that it will be a deterrent to Russia for trying anything like that ever again. Because the Soviet Union could invade Czechoslovakia, occupy its capital, overthrow its government, and not care very much, frankly, what the world thought. Well, it turns out that thats not Russia, which leads me to the point that this is not actually a new Cold War.

Russia does not have, as the Soviet Union did, pretensions to an alternative way to organize human history. This is not an ideological conflict. And so while we have difficulties with Russia, particularly around its periphery, we have managed to continue to cooperate with the Russians on the Middle East, on North Korea, on Iran, on the global financial crisis, et cetera, et cetera. So its not  the key for us was to come out of this crisis in Georgia with Georgian democracy intact, with the Georgian economy intact, with Georgian territorial integrity intact. And its not intact, but its also not recognized by anybody  the secessionists are not recognized by anybody -- and to make clear to Russia that this kind of behavior was, in the 21st century, not just unacceptable, but not very fruitful. And I think we achieved all of those goals.

*QUESTION:* So even though they havent fulfilled their commitments, the time has come to resume the NATO-Russia -- 

*SECRETARY RICE:* Well, I said we should look at fulfilling the commitments. I didnt say  I said in principle, we do not have  we dont have a problem with it. We have resumed at lower levels. But I think youd want to be very careful, for instance, about doing things that look military-to-military, because the Russian military is still sitting in the secessionist states.

Just to Bucharest really quickly  or Brussels. The Bucharest declaration has a very clear line: These states will become members of NATO. Now it also says we would review MAP in December. Its our view that the question of MAP  we dont need to review the question of MAP. We can pursue the fulfillment of Bucharest through the commissions and other  it will be a long time. I dont think any Georgian or Ukrainian would tell you that theyre anywhere near ready for membership. 

So this is all about preparation to fulfill Bucharest, and frankly, I dont see why were  why theres any tension around this at all.

*MR. MCCORMACK:* All right. Now we have to  

*QUESTION:* Just to be certain that I understand what you said about -

*MR. MCCORMACK:* All right. We have to  we really have to  the Secretary has to --

*SECRETARY RICE:* Yeah, I just said  I just said --

*QUESTION:* Cooperation  I mean, are you saying that  what youre really saying is that the Europeans need to be more cautious in terms of --

*SECRETARY RICE:* No, I didnt say that.

*QUESTION:* Well, are you saying --

*SECRETARY RICE:* Sue, did I say that? 

*QUESTION:* No, Im trying to -- 

*SECRETARY RICE:* When did I say that? I said that in principle, I have no problems with NATO-Russia Council activities. I said we should be very attentive to what the Russians are doing, and are they living up to their obligations. And I said that there are certain sorts of activities like military-to-military contacts that seem to me to be problematic when the Russian military is sitting in Georgian territory, or in the separatist states. 

But I dont want to try to make a general rule here, because frankly, I think that weve denied Russia  the United States and Europe together  and I want to very much emphasize that  the United States and Russia  the United States and Europe together denied Russia any strategic gain from its invasion of Georgia in August. I have to go. Thanks.

*QUESTION:* Thank you very much.

*SECRETARY RICE:* Thank you.

2008/T30-3 
Released on December 1, 2008


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## Al-zakir

Monday December 01 2008 18:08:20 PM BDT


By A.H. Jaffor Ullah, USA




On Thanksgiving Day, November 27, we woke up to listen all day the terrible news of terrorists attacks in central business district of Mumbai. The gunmen targeted a posh hotel, an expensive restaurant, a Jewish center, and a busy train station not only to maximize the casualties, but also to capture the attention of the foreign press. The gunmen had specifically targeted the areas of Mumbai where foreign nationals gather to carry on theirs business dealings.

The siege of Mumbai for over 48 hours by the gunmen had led to the killing of 185 or more people including visiting foreigners from multiple nations. At the citys Jewish Center, the terrorists killed an American Rabbi and his wife. Many bystanders were killed too. As per the news, the government flew an elite anti-terrorist squad from New Delhi who joined the Mumbai police to kill all the terrorists. In the end, 9 gunmen were killed; only a lone gunman by a stroke of luck survived. Indias Home minister, Mr. Shivraj Patil, tendered his resignation because he became very unpopular in the aftermath of the terrorists attack.

As the story of gunmen killing hostages in ritzy Taj Mahal hotel was unfolding, a U.S. counterintelligence expert opined that the signature marks of two known terrorist groups operating from Kashmir, Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e Mohammed, were visible. These terrorist organizations were organized by Pakistans ISI to foment political trouble inside the Indian-held Kashmir.

When the lone injured gunman was taken to a hospital, the authorities found that the group of assailants had come from Pakistan by sea. The 21-year terrorist was recruited from a town near Multan, which is in southeast Punjab. Given how much negative propaganda goes on day in, day out in Pakistan against Indias control of the majority of Kashmir, it wont be difficult to assemble a group of jihadists to carry on a terrorist attack in India. And in all likelihood, that is what has exactly happened.

As per news reports, the Pakistani gunmen had assembled in Karachi from where they took a vessel to come to the coast of Gujarat. From there, they finally arrived in Mumbai but in the process they killed an Indian coastguard personnel. In the wee small hours of the night, the gunmen came ashore by rubber dinghies when they quickly seized Taj Mahal Hotel. By now, we all know what happened.

In the Internet, a freethinker South Asian forum started in earnest an intense debate over why is it that there is no dearth of supply of jihadists from Islamic world to carry out terrorist attacks on foreign soil? One enthusiastic writer filled his blog space by penning an essay entitled Faiths Virus. In it the author, Dr. Avijit Roy, claimed that jihadism is like a virus which when infects a young mind makes the victim irrational. Thus, infected with the virus, the jihadist then embarks on a journey to amend things, which his delusional mind thinks had gone awry. The behavior of a virus-infected terrorist could explain why Mohammad Ata, the leader of 9-11 terrorists, was able to rationalize his dastardly action even though he knew how many innocent lives will be lost because of the action taken by his group on that fateful September day.

It is about the time India should think rationally and ask a rhetorical question about why she has external enemy? India has joined two other nations, Israel and America, where terrorists from other nations have attacked killing many innocent citizens. Scores of suicide bombers both young men and women have undertaken dangerous missions deep inside Israel only to kill themselves along with a few Israelis. The Scripture is not powerful enough to convert an innocuous Arab young person to become a suicide member. 

All the social injustices done to the displaced Palestinians who spent years and years of agonizing days in temporary decrepit camps have fueled the flame of hatred among Palestinians. This was a mistake on the part of Israelis. After all, to a Palestine the occupied territories in the West Bank and Gaza strip were theirs. They were uprooted by the influx of European Jews in the aftermath of the Second World War. In 1948, Israel was established but the Zionists did not really care about the well beings of the uprooted Palestinians. 

One should do a Google search on what the Israeli PM Golda Meir or Menachem Begin had said about the plights of Palestinians to know what an utter benign neglect and so much distrust they had for Palestinian people. A grave injustice was being done by most Israeli leaderships against the Arabs who called themselves Palestinians. Is it a small wonder that the Intifada II Movement had no problem finding volunteers to carry out suicide terrorist operations deep inside Israel? 

Why was America targeted by 19 or so Arab terrorists on September 11, 2001? Again, the issue in the eyes of the Mohammad Atas gang was the social injustice done to the Palestinian people. The Scripture alone in my view is not enough to persuade a would-be-terrorist to become a live bomber. Israel became a very powerful nation vis-à-vis militarism in the Middle East only because American taxpayers money had made the nation a powerful one. This has not gone unnoticed by Arabs. On top of this, the Hollywoods domination of entertainment industries has not sit well with many people in Arab world. The invasion of airwaves allover the world by American made movies, TV programs have angered many a people allover the world who values modesty, chastity over nudity and promiscuity. All these are contributing factors when 19 angry Arab men took control of four passenger jetliners in eastern seaboard in America on September 11, 2001.

In South Asia, India is doing very well economically ever since the nation had open-heartedly embraced the mantra of globalization in the late 1980s. The mushrooming of call centers and silicon workstations in Bangalore, etc., had made India the envy of the South Asian nations. The glitz and ritz of Mumbai, New Delhi, Gurgaon, Bangalore, Hyderabad, etc, as viewed by millions in the satellite TVs in the neighboring countries had made an impression that India is an emerging economy. However, beneath the veneer of this ostensible display of new riches lies the harsh reality of political dominance over Kashmiri people and impoverishment in northeast India where cessationist movements are common occurrence. India is doing what one may call  a band aid method to squish the rebelliousness of the Kashmiri and NEI dissidents. 

Come to think of it, Kashmir has always been a thorn by the side of India. In 1947 when Brits left India while dividing the nation into two separate nations, they left hundreds of principalities without assigning them to India or Pakistan based on the census data. In Kashmir, Muslims were the majority but the king was a Hindu one. When forces from Pakistan invaded the Jammu valley, the king asked India to come to his aid. The first full-scale war over Kashmir was fought during 1947-1948. A ceasefire broke out in the end while Kashmir was divided into two parts one controlled by Pakistan and the other by India. Since then, 3 more war broke out between these two countries. In 1948, the U.N. mandated that a plebiscite be given to Kashmiri people to decide whether they should join Pakistan or remain with India. This plebiscite never did take place due to the vehement opposition of Indian government. The movement to make Kashmir an independent landlocked country never gathered steam because of Indias persistent protest. In the meantime, sixty years have gone by but Kashmiri Muslims have lived under Indian rule unhappily, of course. 

Because of the mass-scale discontent in Kashmir, many young Muslim Kashmiris were indoctrinated by such Islamic terrorist groups as Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e Mohammed. The western counterintelligence organizations think that these two terrorist outfits were the brainchild of Pakistans Inter-Service Intelligence (ISI), an integral part of Pakistani military. These organizations have blasted bombs allover Kashmir and its volunteers fought pitch battle with the Indian army from time to time. In the hands of New Delhi, Kashmir has become a virtual police state where civil rights of Kashmiri Muslims are routinely violated everyday. Consequently, homegrown terrorist attacks are on the rise against Indian army.

Under this dire political backdrop, a group comprising of 10 Pakistani terrorists have come ashore on November 26, 2008 to undertake a violent attack on innocent civilians. They targeted the foreigners to attract the attention of foreign press. In the end they died; however, their actions opened the question  why is it that India attracts foreign terrorists similar to Israel and America. The answer lies in social injustice these countries have meted out to various ethnic and political groups. Americas involvement in arming Israeli army had made America a prime target for terrorist organization such as al-Qaeda. Israel has drawn ire from Palestinians and neighboring Arabs because of their scorched-earth policy against Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza strips. 

India may deny the social injustice charge that has been leveled against them vis-à-vis their treatment to Muslim Kashmiris. But it is a bitter truth that Indias heavy-handed approach to control the dissident Kashmiris is viewed as an act of gross civil rights violation, which has fueled anti-Indian feeling among Muslims in the South Asian subcontinent. Add to this the cultural domination of neighboring nations by cheap Bollywood flicks and sexually explicit TV programs that may not sit well in Islamic nations. 

India should take positive steps to find a permanent solution in Kashmir. If the division of Kashmir is anathematic to Indian politicians, then perhaps allowing the Kashmiris to make their country an independent nation is the best alternative solution. This suggestion would invariably fall on the deaf ear in New Delhi. 

In summary, the Kashmir problem, which was started in 1947, is the mother of all problems that confront India. Unless this issue is resolved to the fullest satisfaction of Kashmiri Muslims, Mumbai, New Delhi, or any other big urban center may face the possibility of more terrorist attacks. This should be the take home message for Indian ruling elites from the Thanksgiving Day massacre in Mumbai. 

------------------------

Dr. A.H. Jaffor Ullah, a researcher and columnist, writes from New Orleans, USA
E Mail :jhankar@bellsouth.net


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## jeypore

Pakistan's Task



WITH EACH passing day, suspicions of a Pakistani link to the slaughter of 174 people, including six Americans, in Mumbai grow stronger -- and more plausible. A captured terrorist has reportedly confessed to Indian officials that he received training in Pakistan from Lashkar-i-Taiba, a guerrilla organization that was nurtured by Pakistani military intelligence to fight India in the disputed Kashmir region. It has previously been linked to murderous attacks on civilians within India; Lashkar-i-Taiba was behind an assault on the Indian Parliament in 2001 that killed more than a dozen people and almost triggered all-out war on the subcontinent. 

Indian security officials are being forced to resign for failing to foresee and prevent the Mumbai massacre, even as public pressure mounts for action against Pakistan. Whether or not the crime originated there, the outcry underlines some past failings of U.S. policy -- specifically, the paltry dividends from years of Bush administration cooperation with former Pakistani military ruler Pervez Musharraf. Mr. Musharraf promised strong anti-terrorism measures in return for the billions of dollars in U.S. aid he received. He even went so far as to ban Lashkar-i-Taiba and arrest suspected participants in the attack on India's parliament. This ban existed mainly on paper, however; Mr. Musharraf released the detainees, and the group, renamed Jamaat-ud-Dawa, resumed training under the cover of its charities and schools. It may actually be larger and better financed than it was seven years ago. 

This is not to say that the attacks in Mumbai were Mr. Bush's fault. Nor is Pakistan's new civilian democratic government to blame. To the extent Pakistan-based terrorists still enjoy support from within Pakistani military intelligence, those connections are shadowy and perhaps beyond the civilians' ability to control. Indeed, Lashkar-i-Taiba and whatever allies it still has in Pakistan's army are trying to stir up conflict on the subcontinent so as to undermine the new government and preserve their own power. 


Nevertheless, India, which has the ability to strike terrorist targets in Pakistan, is rightly demanding an end to the threat -- and it's getting harder and harder for Washington to counsel patience. One positive signal, Pakistan's promise to send its military intelligence chief to India to help the investigation, has apparently been retracted, though lower-ranking officials may yet go. As Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice put it yesterday while en route to South Asia, "this is a time for complete, absolute, total transparency and cooperation. And that's what we expect." She was, of course, being diplomatic. Pakistan holds the key to this crisis. The best way to salvage Pakistani democracy, and to prevent a slide toward war between two nuclear powers, is for Islamabad to shut down Lashkar-i-Taiba and similar organizations, swiftly, permanently and verifiably. Pakistan should enjoy U.S. support, both from this administration and the next, to the extent that it presents not only credible plans for accomplishing this goal -- but also tangible results. 



Editorial -- Pakistan's Task in the Wake of the Mumbai Terrorist Attack - washingtonpost.com


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## blain2

Most of the analysis coming out of the US are half ***. So Pakistan is to do all the work, take on the militants who are gaining strength as wars continue in Iraq and Afghanistan and giving them the motivation to regroup and gain strength, and Pakistan is to suffer the suicide bombings and deaths of her soldiers and officers while India continues to sit on Kashmir (a disputed territory)? What about giving Pakistan an incentive by asking the Indians to come clean on Kashmir for good? How about going the way of the Israeli-Palestinian way and trying to resolve this problem for once and for all? 

I am not sure if the typical solution expounded by the likes of WP is workable. Pakistan cannot afford to lose out in both Kashmir and Afghanistan. It won't happen. By cornering Pakistani state and only asking Pakistan to do it all, the policy makers and think tanks in DC are only strengthening those who are already weary of supposed American-Indian designs on Pakistan.


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## Tornado

*India has right to protect itself: Obama *


WASHINGTON: Sovereign nations have the right to protect themselves, US president-elect Barack Obama said on Monday, *when asked if India could follow the same policy he advocated during his election campaign  of bombing terrorist camps in Pakistan if there was actionable evidence and Islamabad refused to act on it. *
Although Obama said he did not want to comment on the specific situation involving India and Pakistan, his tacit endorsement of New Delhi adopting the same policy was circumscribed by *two caveats: first, let the investigators reach definite conclusions about the Mumbai carnage, and second, see if Pakistan will follow through with its commitment to cooperate in eliminating terrorism. *
''My administration will remain steadfast in support of Indias effort to catch perpetrators and bring them to justice. I expect the world community will feel the same way,'' Obama said, in one of several references to the events in Mumbai that underscored the roll-out of his national security team in Chicago on Monday. 

As expected, Obama named Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State, and retired marine General James Jones as National Security Advisor, in addition to retaining Robert Gates as Defense Secretary, among the three principals of his administration. 

The second tier of the national security team he introduced included Eric Holder as Attorney-General, Janet Napolitano as Secretary of Homeland Security, and Susan Rice as the U.S ambassador to United Nations. 

In fact, Obama disclosed that the Mumbai massacre topped the agenda of the new national security team at its first meeting Monday morning ahead of the public roll-out. ''This morning, we met to discuss the situation in Mumbai and some of the challenges that we face in the months and years ahead,'' he revealed, indicating that the South Asia crisis would be among the first issues to occupy his administration as it takes office. 

The president-elect referred repeatedly to the tragedy at his press conference and said he had spoken to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to tell him that the United States is with India in this dark hour. ''In the world we seek, there is no place for those who kill innocent civilians to advance hateful extremism. And I am confident that Indias great democracy is more resilient than killers who would tear it down,'' he said. 

Obama reiterated his stand that there was only one president at a time in the U.S as he trod a delicate line in setting any new policy. But he appreciated the actions taken by the Bush administration and keeping him informed about it. ''What I can say unequivocally is that both myself and my team are absolutely committed to eliminating terrorism,'' he said. ''We cannot tolerate attacks based on twisted ideology of hate...we will bring the full force of our military, economic and diplomatic power to defeat this. I will be monitoring the situation closely.'' 

India has right to protect itself: Obama-USA-World-The Times of India


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## Ali.009

First indians should cooperate with train bombing terrorists. We'll see the mumbai thing afterwards. Rice always speak wrong.


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## jeypore

blain2 said:


> Most of the analysis coming out of the US are half ***. So Pakistan is to do all the work, take on the militants who are gaining strength as wars continue in Iraq and Afghanistan and giving them the motivation to regroup and gain strength, and Pakistan is to suffer the suicide bombings and deaths of her soldiers and officers while India continues to sit on Kashmir (a disputed territory)? What about giving Pakistan an incentive by asking the Indians to come clean on Kashmir for good? How about going the way of the Israeli-Palestinian way and trying to resolve this problem for once and for all?
> 
> I am not sure if the typical solution expounded by the likes of WP is workable. Pakistan cannot afford to lose out in both Kashmir and Afghanistan. It won't happen. By cornering Pakistani state and only asking Pakistan to do it all, the policy makers and think tanks in DC are only strengthening those who are already weary of supposed American-Indian designs on Pakistan.



I for one think that India put a great deterrent in Kashmire, that led to terrorist activities else where (like mumbai attacks). If India grows strong based on what it has experienced it will be very hard to break the system and it's terrotories. There is no grand scheme of things like you have sujected besides protecting it's souvern terrotories. Afaghanistan would be beneficail, based on other neighbors antagonism.


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## Vin

This guy is a complete idiot. I mean come'on, who's he kidding? It's people like him why Pakistan is in trouble right now on all fronts, whether they be financial, or political. Why not think about progressing your own country rather than finding about conspiracy theories against other countries. Look at your selfs, you are about to go bankrupt and don't have money to feed your people and have to constantly beg others. Grow up, and drop the hate.

God bless America!!
USA


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## Vinod2070

Flintlock said:


> I hope the majority of Pakistanis don't believe these conspiracy theories....dear god....



I think there is a very high number who believe him. He knows to catch the pulse of his target audience, even though he so clearly avoids the truth as plague.

He mixes facts with fiction pretty well and is a good demagogue.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## U-571

Vinod2070 said:


> I think there is a very high number who believe him. He knows to catch the pulse of his target audience, even though he so clearly avoids the truth as plague.
> 
> He mixes facts with fiction pretty well and is a good demagogue.



wht good ur media does, for eg the star news, abt chacha rehman i think, lol, i thought i am watching a star plus drama!!!  with all flashes, noises and colour full stuffs

though the indian news channels r banned in pakistan, but now a days many pakistani chennels r showing short clips of the indian media, "wht the drama they r doing now a days", when a pakistani journalist asked to comment abt chacha rehman to an indian journalist guest, she said ROFLMAO!!


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## superbikez

*judge it for ur self do they look foriegn.
they look indians 1000%.*










1. Strange that none of the media (TV or Print) have picked this up at all. Or have they been deliberately ignoring it?

Have a look at the above picture of one of the terrorists. [Another angle]

Notice the orange thread / band on his right hand.

Tying a red thread or cord around the wrist is a Hindu practice and it is unlikely a Muslim, especially one politicized enough to carry out an attack such as this, would observe it. I think this provides more evidence that this was a false flag operation or at least an attack by a non-Muslim group. For more information about the significance of the red thread see wikipedia and this blog post. [Thanks to Uruk]

Additionally, the terrorists inside the Nariman House Building were reported to have stocked up on supplies on Wednesday evening, buying not just food items but liquor, among other things, from a local store [Source]. Again, it is highly unlikely that a Muslim, let alone a Mujahid, and especially one politicized enough to carry out such an attack, would consume liquor in normal life, let alone hours before his inevitable martyrdom.

Dont let them ignore it. Circulate this to as many people as you can as we strongly believe it wouldnt have been ignored if the terrorists were carrying a copy of the Quran, or a taveez.

2. Indians are claiming that one of the attackers was captured and says he is from Faridkot, near Multan:
Mumbai police capture terrorist alive and claim he is from Pakistan | Mail Online

Can anyone confirm if there is a Faridkot in Pakistan?

The only Faridkot I can find is in Indian Punjab:
Faridkot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia









3.Clearly Jalalabad is in Afghanistan, its all part of a global conspiricy against Pakistan

4. Ahmed Quraishi.com

5. The raakhi wearing Muhammad Ajmal Muhammad Amin Ajmal Muhammad Muhammad Kasave Ajmal Kazab Kazim Muhammad Azim Qasime Muhammad Qasam. The names change hourly depending on how well they suite with terrorist names or organisations.

6. An article by guardian: Ravinder Kaur: To call the Mumbai attacks India's 9/11 makes a false analogy with Bush's war on terror | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

7. aangirfan: Mumbai Attackers were 'Hindus' and 'White Men'

AND finally

Terror in Mumbay & Malegaon Hindu Terror, Any Connections??, Who hired them?

1. The country was in a mood of getting real colour of terror most recentently happened, hindu folks involvements were slowly uncovered!

2. The brave hero, ATS Chief Hemanth Karkare was intelligently uncovering the masks of real terrorists who played recent terrors in India. He was given a threat to his life just before two days of this terror in Mumbay!

3. The 1st target of Mubai terrorists was ATS leaders - three of most wanted by Malegaon criminals immediately shot dead in early hours of said Mumbai Terror, including Hemanth Karkare!

4. It is true that Mumbai Terrorists entered thru sea! but did they crossed international boarders or just took off from Gujarat or neasrby seas within Indian territtory?

5. It is well known that Mumbai Terrorists had very good and excellenge knowledge about their targets, the most important one was the ATS leaders! They are well familiar with Taj and other o their targets!

6. The 1st 38 hours of Mumbai Terror operation, there were no much clues were obtained nor media not much covered to link with Pakistan !

7. Unlike Leshkare Tayyebs jehadists with bears and turbans, this youngsters are clean shaved without having beared! are they really Jehadis? One of the terrorists media showed was wearing a yellow band on his right hand (a sanghi sign, as seen in Gujarat riot scenes - even RSS female cadres wears it)!

8. The situation changes immedately after biggest Terrorist Gujarat hero Modis visits in Mumbai! Sonia, Prime Minister and LK Advani also visited Mumbai before Modi however nobody declared someone, why?

Why Modi visited Mumbai unlike other CMs of other states?

He immeditely declares the hands of Pakistan in Mumbai Terror - how he knows it?

He immedately declares of financial aids of 1 crore to every military man killed, to Maharastra govt, all people killed?? Why? wht is the connection of Gujarat and Mumbai Terror

What is the reason of his over smartness of taking the media?

Why Terrorist Hero Mr. Modi declares aid to people before Manmohan or Maharastra CM declares? and much bigger amounts than them?? was it from his pocket or from public money?

This should be well investigated, he may know who hired the terrorists in Mumbai who killed the ATS leaders and challegning the nation!

9. And this terror takes place just day before assembly elections in some states!

Now you guess, has it any real connections with  Malegaon  hindu terrorism??

See the image of the Gunman and decide for yourself who was the man. The man is wearing a color band on his right hand which Sangeis (Red thread) usually wear.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

*LOL @ INDIA nice Story for Bollywood not for Reality base lollll*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## s90

lmao yeh these indian agencies keep changing details and dont decide on one thing


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## Imran Khan

> Can anyone confirm if there is a Faridkot in Pakistan?



there is small village near multan but they now afred from pak police and isi qes them from 5 days and they said there is no one missed here we are uneducated and there is small mosqe no any tarerrst or even an educated man there.total papulation know wery well each other names father name even grand father names

its indian fake story


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## hasang20

lol @ that guy i dont think "Mujahideens" are going to buy liquor


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## Vinod2070

AFAIK, the AQ terrorists who did 9/11 had a lap dance earlier.

Don't Muslims drink liquor? They are no Mujahideen! They are plain terrorists who give a bad name to whatever they claim to represent.


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## was

indian game exposed
off the record
Video Program Playing | Pakistan Herald

live with talat
Video Program Playing | Pakistan Herald


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## was

Vinod2070 said:


> I think there is a very high number who believe him. He knows to catch the pulse of his target audience, even though he so clearly avoids the truth as plague.
> 
> He mixes facts with fiction pretty well and is a good demagogue.



he he like your idiot news anchors and reporters who even don,t know where is their mike placed


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## Imran Khan

50 hours terarrst inside indian waters and indian navy are sleep tight because they close there radar and fell happy .what a drama they make


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## superbikez

BREAKING NEWS .. i neva know indian Navy sleeep around 5-6 hoursss lolllllllllllllllll


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## Evil Flare

Can anypost the Video of star news controversy abt Chacha Rehman 

Its make me laugh LOUD ..


Its was a Star Plus Drama


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## A1Kaid

I have as the world seen and have bear witness to the attacks in Mumbai recently. However, I have gone further than simply witnessing these attacks, I have given it some intellectual thought that I want to share with Muslims particularly Muslim-Pakistanis.

The main thesis of this Post is I have noticed several weaknesses in the Indian special forces or Army response and engagement to quell the attacks in Mumbai.

1) First Pakistan should take note, for several days two dozen armed gun men have taken hold of Mumbai, and the Indian Army was unable to STOP THEM!

2) These Men were well coordinated and had AK-47 but what is interesting is that *the gun men had carjacked a Indian Police Van!* And cruised around Mumbai shooting civilians, the *Police had great difficulty* stopping a few guys in a Van in their financial capital. Another weakness.

3) The Indian army spent days figuring out how to end the attacks.

4) Indian forces appeared unorganized in their operations.


*If Mumbai was a Pakistani City, I guarantee you the Pakistani Forces would have responded much better to these attacks, with swiftness, accuracy, intelligence, and confidence.
*
This is all I will share.






*Video of the Carjacked Indian police Van!!! Cruising around Mumbai easily!*

Please share your thoughts on this subject.


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## HK-47

BBC NEWS | South Asia | 'Rot' at heart of Indian intelligence



> The blame game over who was responsible for bloody terror attacks in the western Indian city of Mumbai (Bombay) has a sense of d&#233;j&#224; vu about it.
> 
> Security experts have criticised the response to the attacks, which left nearly 200 people dead, as "amateurish, sluggish and feeble".
> 
> Indian intelligence agencies are leaking information that they gave about half a dozen warnings to the government in Maharashtra state - of which Mumbai is the capital.
> 
> The reports say Maharashtra was warned that strikes were being planned on city landmarks, including, possibly, the Taj Mahal hotel at the historic Gateway of India.
> 
> Authorities in Mumbai flatly deny that they received any tip-offs. "It is unimaginable that we would have got this sensitive information and not react," says state Interior Secretary Chitkala Zutshi.
> 
> Knee-jerk responses
> 
> But security experts confirm that information extracted from a group of Indian and Pakistani men arrested in northern India earlier this year revealed that some men belonging to Pakistan-based groups had done a reconnaissance of major landmarks in Mumbai. The agencies had also been picking up militant chatter on attacks in the city.
> 
> 
> The police in India are working on manpower and equipment assessments last made in the 1970s
> Security analyst Praveen Swami
> 
> Yet the local police and intelligence agencies appeared to have failed to act on any of the information - despite doubts as to whether the information was shared promptly enough between the Mumbai authorities.
> 
> This is a story which keeps repeating itself in a country which has been hit by over half a dozen big "terror attacks" this year - the central and local security authorities trade charges over the sharing and quality of intelligence, followed by knee-jerk responses and investigations which fizzle out in a couple of years.
> 
> The attacks and their aftermath again point to the rot that has set into the country's internal security system and a lack of cohesion between civilian and security wings of the government.
> 
> One telling example: six days after the attack, even the number of dead and injured keeps going up and down, due to poor co-ordination between the police and hospitals.
> 
> More seriously, the Indian police appear to be incapacitated by a lack of money and training. Poor working conditions, rudimentary surveillance and communications equipment, inadequate forensic science laboratories and outdated weaponry are making matters worse.
> 
> "The Mumbai attacks prove that the whole system is falling apart. The police in India are working on manpower and equipment assessments last made in the 1970s," says security analyst Praveen Swami.
> 
> The fact that the gunmen came by sea - and sneaked into the city through a crowded fishing colony - points to almost non-existent coastal police patrols, as a local officer admits.
> 
> All that the police have is a couple of launches. They have no radar.
> 
> The Mumbai police - like most police in India - remain in a time warp: they are equipped with World War II vintage rifles and carbines handed down by the army. In most states, an average policeman's salary and status is equivalent to that of an unskilled municipal worker, encouraging corruption.
> 
> Inadequate protection
> 
> Budgets do not extend to supplying food to police personnel on shift, so many end up extorting food from street hawkers. They also routinely hitch free rides because they don't have enough vehicles.
> 
> Training and faster response times are urgently needed, critics say
> 
> Bullet proof vests are of inferior quality and phone interception equipment remains largely rudimentary.
> 
> And three years after the central government announced the setting up an ambitious National Police Mission to set out the future needs and requirements of the force, nothing has happened.
> 
> India's commando forces are also not exactly in good shape.
> 
> A group of the elite 7,400-strong National Security Guards (NSG) - who were flown in to Mumbai eight hours after the attacks - is based near the capital, Delhi. Many of the commandos, say experts, are wasted in giving protection to politicians and other VIPs.
> 
> The country's best commando force does not have its own aircraft. As a result, it has become used to spending hours reaching crisis locations, with mixed results.
> 
> "On average, the commando force has taken six to seven hours to reach and begin their operations and get their act together every time they have been called for. There have been delays," says Praveen Swami.
> 
> He says the commandos have been trained to rescue small groups of people. "They have not been trained on multiple location operations of such scale."
> 
> 'No way to fight terrorism'
> 
> Any deficiencies in their training may be explained by the fact that a Mumbai-type attack only happens very rarely.
> 
> 
> That is why Indian security experts like Ajai Sahni say that the response to the attacks was so poor.
> 
> "This is no way to fight terrorism," he says.
> 
> After the Mumbai attacks, the local government announced it would set up a state commando force: to begin with, some 500 armed men would be ready in four months.
> 
> This, when the basic training for the NSG commandos takes six months. And Maharashtra, along with other states, has no commando training centres.
> 
> A number of states where there have been attacks by Maoist rebels plan to raise their own commando forces, but early results point to hasty, faulty planning.
> 
> The authorities in eastern Orissa state, for example, hired 8,000 new policemen for anti-Maoist operations, but found to their dismay that it took six months to train just 350 of them.
> 
> There are allegations that many of the candidates paid bribes to get into the force.
> 
> Painfully slow and lazy bureaucracy means that the modernisation of the security forces often takes ages. Police in Uttar Pradesh state took four years to buy imported surveillance equipment.
> 
> By the time it arrived, it had become outdated and now lies disused. One police official even paid by his own credit card to pick up a piece of $60 equipment from a foreign website for his forces because it would have taken him months, if not years, to acquire it.
> 
> With their bureaucratic ways of working, the intelligence agencies are also struggling.
> 
> There is a dearth of language specialists. India's spy agency, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), is reported by insiders to have only two Arabic and two Chinese language specialists, hired from language schools.
> 
> But the best do not stay on because of poor wages, and one of the Chinese language specialists who was trained in cyber-technology quit to join one of India's top industrial groups.
> 
> "Things have to begin from scratch to boost internal security in India. Authorities should come clean to the people and tell them how bad the situation is and set time-bound targets to begin improving security infrastructure," says Praveen Swami.
> 
> Otherwise, he warns, India will continue to be one of the softest targets for terror strikes in the world.



Just found this in BBC.this is quite depressing for a superpower.


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## AliFarooq

Part 1






Part 2






Part 3.






Part 4.






Part 5.


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## was

part 6

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## PeaceForAll

I ll come straight to the point, I have been researching this without posting much in the forum and these are my questions:

1) If Indian mujahideen or Indian homegrown Radicals are behind this, I am not able to figure out why they had to target Jews and Americans - they would rather target Politicians and Actors!! The reason : I have searched for Indian radical groups and they seldom attack foreigners.

2) It is apparently very easy for Indian people to travel within the land than through sea (this from very dependable Indian friends I have here) so it beats me why they have to beat the navy and come through sea than take the direct land route - u dont normally find army deployed in mumbai - this is not Kashmir!!

3)Of course I am not pointing at Pakistan. But I am inclined at those forces that are derailing Pakistan's economy and state framework - the Islamic fundamentalists . And where are they based now? (unfortunately very much close to where I am from!! )

Please do not jump to conclusions and please do reply with some good backing. Thanks in advance.


May peace prevail!!

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## BanglaBhoot

*India Says All Mumbai Attackers Came by Ship *

MUMBAI, India  The Mumbai attackers came by ship from the Pakistani port of Karachi, the Indian police said Tuesday, the most direct link made to Pakistan so far.

With tensions high between Islamabad and New Delhi, the Mumbai police chief, Hassan Gafoor, gave some of the most specific details yet about the identity of the attackers and the nature of their the bloody rampage last week that left at least 173 people dead.

He repeated that the one gunman had captured alive was from Pakistan. That suspect has been identified as one Ajmal Amir Qasab, who Indian investigators said had admitted to being a member of Lashkar-e-Taiba, a militant Islamist group accused of carrying out terrorist attacks in Indian-administered Kashmir and elsewhere.

A police official in Mumbai said Mr. Qasab named several possible masterminds of the attack, including Yusuf Muzammil, who Indian authorities say is the Lashkar leader who spearheads actions on Indian soil.

Mr. Gafoor said the police were still verifying the nationalities of the nine attackers killed during their rampage. But he said there had been no British passport holders among them, contradicting some early news reports. The Indian authorities have maintained that the 10 accounts for all the attackers.

Mr. Gafoor said the 10 had been trained by an ex-army officer, although he refused to specify which army the officer belonged to, and that all been trained in the same location, some for as long as a year, although he would not say where.

The main plan was obvious  to create a sensation and to kill as many people as possible, he told reporters.

Responding to questions about whether the gunmen had received assistance, he said the evidence suggested they had no collaboration from employees at the two hotels they attacked in Mumbai, and there was as yet no evidence they had help elsewhere in the city.

Tensions between India and Pakistan are now at their worse since 2001, when a suicide attack on the Indian Parliament pushed them to the brink of war.

American and Indian intelligence officials say there is strong evidence tying the attacks to the Lashkar group, which has been linked to Pakistans powerful intelligence agency. According to senior American government officials, satellite intercepts of telephone calls made during the siege directly linked the attackers in Mumbai to operatives in Pakistan working for Lashkar. The same group has been mentioned by some European security officials as linked to the attack. The American officials said there was still no evidence that Pakistans government had a hand in the operation.

Some new details have emerged about the difficulties faced by the Indian police commandos who responded to the killings here last week. The attackers used grenades to booby trap some of the bodies in the two luxury hotels where they struck, the Taj Mahal Palace & Tower and the Oberoi, so they would explode when they were moved, according to Rakesh Maria, the joint commissioner of the Mumbai police. It was not always clear, he added, whether the people were dead or just wounded.

That tactic made fighting the attackers more difficult, and significantly delayed the cleanup after the violence ended, Inspector Maria said. The last militants were routed on Saturday morning, but the Taj hotel was not returned to the control of its owners until Monday morning.

The foreign minister, Pranab Mukherjee, increased pressure on Pakistan, demanding that the Pakistani government arrest and hand over about 20 people wanted for seven years under Indian law as criminal fugitives. Some were suspected gangsters with links to organized crime; none were believed to be linked directly to the attacks.

Meanwhile, he appeared to rule out an immediate military response against Pakistan, saying that no one is talking about military action, according to news reports.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was due to arrive in the region on Wednesday to demand Pakistans full cooperation with the investigation into the attacks and to calm relations. In an attempt to tamp down tensions between India and Pakistan ahead of Ms. Rices arrival, President Bush ordered Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to travel to India.

Pakistan seemed eager to lower the levels of easily-ignited passion that, in the past, have brought the two nuclear-armed neighbors into three wars. The Pakistan foreign minister, Shah Mahmood Qureshi, offered in a televised address to conduct a joint investigation with India into the Mumbai killings, Reuters reported, and said now was not the time for a blame game.

Pakistan wants good relations with India, he said.

President Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan said in a television interview Monday night that if India shared the results of its investigation, Pakistan would do everything in our power to go after these militants.

Many of the fugitives sought by India were people it has been trying to arrest for years. They included Dawood Ibrahim, described in news reports as a powerful gangster and Indias most-wanted fugitive, who was accused of organizing bombings in Mumbai in 1993.

The list also included Masood Azhar, a suspected terrorist freed from prison in India in exchange for the release of hostages aboard a hijacked Indian Airlines aircraft in December, 1999, news reports said.

With elections just months away, the government needs to be seen as acting decisively in the face of the atrocities. But it could be accused of raising a red herring if it does not furnish convincing evidence for its claims of Pakistani involvement.

Indian intelligence officials issued at least one warning about a possible attack on the Taj Mahal and Oberoi hotels, but that was in September. Security was increased for a while and then relaxed, intelligence officials have said. There were reports of many other unheeded warnings, but it was not clear how many were actually communicated.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/03/world/asia/03mumbai.html?_r=1&hp


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## EagleEyes

> 1) If Indian mujahideen or Indian homegrown Radicals are behind this, I am not able to figure out why they had to target Jews and Americans - they would rather target Politicians and Actors!! The reason : I have searched for Indian radical groups and they seldom attack foreigners.



To get International publicity. There will be more publicity if more white people died than just Indian people.



> It is apparently very easy for Indian people to travel within the land than through sea (this from very dependable Indian friends I have here) so it beats me why they have to beat the navy and come through sea than take the direct land route - u dont normally find army deployed in mumbai - this is not Kashmir!!



I find it hard to believe that they came from the sea.



> Of course I am not pointing at Pakistan. But I am inclined at those forces that are derailing Pakistan's economy and state framework - the Islamic fundamentalists . And where are they based now? (unfortunately very much close to where I am from!! )



I believe its the Al-Qaida type terrorists that have grown up in India due to Kashmir occupation (similarities of Afghanistan, Iraq). It is also interesting to know that Somalia is now having the same problems with these Al-Qaida type terrorists as United States took off their government couple of years ago.

It is not the Al-Qaida or anything it is more about the mentality that people grew up with as they see being oppressed or something similar.


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## BanglaBhoot

MUMBAI -- India has named a senior leader of the Pakistani militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba as the mastermind of last week's terror attacks that killed at least 172 people here, and demanded the Pakistani government turn him over and take action against the group.

Just two days before hitting the city, the group of 10 terrorists who ravaged India's financial capital communicated with Yusuf Muzammil and four other Lashkar leaders via a satellite phone that they left behind on a fishing trawler they hijacked to get to Mumbai, a senior Mumbai police official told The Wall Street Journal. The entire group also underwent rigorous training in a Lashkar-e-Taiba camp in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir, the official said.

And Mr. Muzammil had earlier been in touch with an Indian Muslim extremist who scoped out Mumbai locations for possible attack before he was arrested early this year, said another senior Indian police official. The Indian man, Faheem Ahmed Ansari, had in his possession layouts drawn up for the Taj Mahal Palace & Tower and Mumbai's main railway station, both prime targets of last week's attack, the police official said.

Mr. Ansari, who also made sketches and maps of other locations in southern Mumbai that weren't attacked, had met Mr. Muzammil and trained at the same Lashkar camp as the terrorists in last week's attack, an official said.

American intelligence officials agreed Mr. Muzammil was a focus of their attention in the attacks, though they stopped short of calling him the mastermind. "That is a name that is definitely on the radar screen," a U.S. counterterrorism official said.

Information gathered in the probe also continues to point to a connection to Lashkar-e-Taiba, a U.S. counterterrorism official said. Along with a confession from the one gunmen captured in the attacks, U.S. officials cited phone calls intercepted by satellite during the attacks that connected the assailants to members of Lashkar-e-Taiba in Pakistan, as well as the recovered satellite phone from the boat, U.S. officials said.

It also emerged Tuesday that U.S. authorities had warned Indian officials of a pending attack by sea. Hasan Gafoor, Mumbai police commissioner, told a news conference there was a general warning in September after the bombing of the Marriot Hotel in Islamabad that other hotels could be targeted, but he said there was nothing specific.

An Indian police official in Kashmir also said in an interview Tuesday that two militants arrested in early 2007 told police officials then that they were part of a band of eight Lashkar-e-Taiba members who slipped into India by boat from Karachi, Pakistan and made their way to Mumbai, where they broke into pairs -- just as last week's attackers did. The 2007 group made their way north using safehouses provided by local sympathizers.
Heightened Pressure

The evidence cited by investigators is giving fresh ammunition to the Indian government, which has long tried to pressure Pakistan into cracking down on Lashkar-e-Taiba. India claims the group enjoys support from elements of the Pakistani intelligence agency. Pakistan denies that and outlawed the organization in 2002, but has done little to curtail its operations.

Mr. Muzammil's name is on a list of people -- numbering about 20 in all -- that India gave Pakistan earlier this week, demanding their immediate extradition, officials said. A senior Pakistani official said Pakistan was examining the list of suspects provided by New Delhi, and has assured India that action would be taken against them if evidence was available of their involvement in the Mumbai attacks.

It was unclear how Islamabad would respond to the evidence Indian investigators say they have put together. Any move by the shaky civilian government of Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari against Lashkar-e-Taiba could create a huge backlash, particularly from Islamic groups, said a senior official in Pakistan. On Tuesday, Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani convened a meeting of all of the country's political parties in the capital to develop a joint response to Indian demands for extradition.
'Joint Investigation'

"The government of Pakistan has offered a joint investigation mechanism and we are ready to compose such a team which will help the investigation," Pakistan's Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said in a televised statement. Mr. Qureshi, however, declined to say whether Pakistan would hand over any of those sought by India.

The Mumbai attacks have ratcheted up tensions between the two nuclear-armed neighbors, who have been exchanging verbal fire for the past several days and sparking fears of a conflict. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is scheduled to arrive in India Wednesday, as is Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff.

A Pakistani security official in Europe contends there is no evidence Lashkar has carried out operations against India since a 2003 cease-fire took effect between the two countries in 2003. According to this official, Lashkar-e-Taiba's training camps were shut down at the same time.

But Indian authorities say evidence highlights how Lashkar-e-Taiba has broadened its operations to include the recruitment of both Indian and Pakistani Muslim extremists.

Lashkar-e-Taiba -- literally Army of the Good -- has been implicated by Indian officials in several recent terrorist attacks on Indian soil. The group initially focused on fighting the Indian army in the disputed state of Kashmir. Over the years, it has expanded its cause into the rest of India and aims to establish Islamic rule.

India has told Pakistan that the latest attacks in Mumbai were masterminded by Mr. Muzammil, aided by others in the group's senior ranks, according to a senior Pakistani official. Mr. Muzammil, a Pakistani in his mid-30s, became head of Lashkar-e-Taiba's anti-Indian planning cell some three months ago, according to Dipankar Banerjee, director of the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, an independent think tank in New Delhi.

India also claims the attacks were approved by Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, the Pakistani official said. Mr. Saeed is the head of Jamaat-ud-Dawa, the parent organization of Lashkar-e-Taiba. Mr. Saeed, who is free in Pakistan, denied the accusations. "India has always accused me without any evidence," he told Pakistan's GEO News television channel.
'Substantial Progress'

Indian investigators -- helped in part by the testimony of the one terrorist they captured alive, Mohammed Ajmal Kasab -- say they now possess solid proof. "We have made substantial progress in the investigation," said A.N. Roy, director general of the State Police of Maharashtra, where Mumbai is located.

According to Mumbai police chief Hasan Gafoor, Mr. Kasab told interrogators that he and fellow gunmen spent between a year and 18 months in a Lashkar-e-Taiba camp.

The 10 militants left Pakistan's port city of Karachi on Nov. 23 aboard a ship called the Al Husseini, which also carried a crew of seven, another senior police official said. Investigators believe that all the 10 gunmen were Pakistani because they spoke Punjabi or Punjabi-accented Urdu.

When they entered Indian waters, the terrorists hijacked a fishing trawler called the Kuber and took its five crew members prisoner. The terrorists transferred four of them to the Al Husseini and they were subsequently killed, police believe. The terrorists kept the Kuber's lead crewman alive and sailed close to Mumbai.
Fearing Detection

The terrorists abandoned the Kuber in haste, fearing detection by an approaching vessel, the senior police official said. In the process, they forgot their satellite phone on the Kuber. Investigators found in the call log the numbers of five people including Mr. Muzammil, two of his deputies and his personal aide, the senior police official said. Indian officials had already intercepted a phone conversations made while the terrorists were traveling to Mumbai.

Indian Muslim leaders are skeptical of Lashkar's reach into India. But police say Lashkar has increasingly sought contacts and recruits among Indian extremists. In October, for instance, five Muslims from the southern state of Kerala were recruited into Lashkar-e-Taiba and traveled to the Indian part of Kashmir, according to T.K. Vinod Kumar, Kerala's deputy inspector-general of police. They tried to cross the line of control that runs between India and Pakistan and reach training camps on the Pakistani side.

Four among the group were killed in a firefight with the Indian military during that attempt. The fifth, construction worker Abdul Jabbar, was arrested two weeks ago, Mr. Kumar says.

India Names Mumbai Mastermind - WSJ.com


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## AliFarooq

I was looking for it, cldnt find it lol
I guess i wasnt looking hard enough lol
Thnxs


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## PeaceForAll

WebMaster said:


> To get International publicity. There will be more publicity if more white people died than just Indian people.



How come then that they have never sought international publicity so far? the attack seems very similar to that of ppl from alqaeda - which for sure has not attacked in India as al qaeda itself.




> I find it hard to believe that they came from the sea.



It seems to be the truth for now. There has been a good amount of proof shown - even other wise, lets assume they came by sea - then what do u think will u answer? 



> I believe its the Al-Qaida type terrorists that have grown up in India due to Kashmir occupation (similarities of Afghanistan, Iraq). It is also interesting to know that Somalia is now having the same problems with these Al-Qaida type terrorists as United States took off their government couple of years ago.
> 
> It is not the Al-Qaida or anything it is more about the mentality that people grew up with as they see being oppressed or something similar.



Quite possible- but then again, there was never a strike like this at this magnitude - it is definitely a different set of people mastrminding this - so even if there were home grown terrorists, There seems to be guidance from higher echelons of Al qaeda and the likes - which again points to links to Taliban, LeT and Finally - Pakistan because they right now reside there!!


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## Awesome

PeaceForAll said:


> 1) If Indian mujahideen or Indian homegrown Radicals are behind this, I am not able to figure out why they had to target Jews and Americans - they would rather target Politicians and Actors!! The reason : I have searched for Indian radical groups and they seldom attack foreigners.



When the media was talking to one of the kids he was complaining why some Israeli official had come to India to tell Indians what to do. The phrase he used was "Kya woh humara maama lagta hai".

Plus he drew parallels between what is happening to the Palestinians with what is happening to the Indian Muslims.



> 2) It is apparently very easy for Indian people to travel within the land than through sea (this from very dependable Indian friends I have here) so it beats me why they have to beat the navy and come through sea than take the direct land route - u dont normally find army deployed in mumbai - this is not Kashmir!!



Quite frankly there is flimsy evidence that they even came through sea. The only evidence is what that kid said. And Apparently India was saying they came through Karachi even before any ofthem were caught. That still remains to be proven.



> 3)Of course I am not pointing at Pakistan. But I am inclined at those forces that are derailing Pakistan's economy and state framework - the Islamic fundamentalists . And where are they based now? (unfortunately very much close to where I am from!! )



Look that's always a possibility. Can't discount them out. But as the days are passing it seems more and more unlikely.[/QUOTE]


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## PeaceForAll

Asim Aquil said:


> When the media was talking to one of the kids he was complaining why some Israeli official had come to India to tell Indians what to do. The phrase he used was "Kya woh humara maama lagta hai".



Sir, Thank you very much for ur citical thinking. 

An additional thought over here. I was listening to that talk session between the terrorist and the tv channel (an Indian tv channel if I should add) and the accent did not seem to be from Hyderabad India at all. (All my Indian friends are from Hyderabad - In fact lot of people who come to USA from India are from Andhra Pradesh and the Urdu that they speak is very heavily inclined to some other language- not hindi - i dont remember whatever language that is)

I am very confident that he was not from Hyderabad, so I am thinking why he had to say that at all! 

And again - these kinds of attacks never happened before in India inspite of so many terrorists strikes in India. ALl of them were directed against Hindus (which it should be! ) attacking the jews has in fact been a negative step for separatist movements.

Please let me know your thoughts on this.


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## Awesome

PeaceForAll said:


> Sir, Thank you very much for ur citical thinking.
> 
> An additional thought over here. I was listening to that talk session between the terrorist and the tv channel (an Indian tv channel if I should add) and the accent did not seem to be from Hyderabad India at all. (All my Indian friends are from Hyderabad - In fact lot of people who come to USA from India are from Andhra Pradesh and the Urdu that they speak is very heavily inclined to some other language- not hindi - i dont remember whatever language that is)
> 
> I am very confident that he was not from Hyderabad, so I am thinking why he had to say that at all!
> 
> And again - these kinds of attacks never happened before in India inspite of so many terrorists strikes in India. ALl of them were directed against Hindus (which it should be! ) attacking the jews has in fact been a negative step for separatist movements.
> 
> Please let me know your thoughts on this.


Well notice the moment where he says "Humaray saath julam aur jiyadati hui hai".

Hyderabadis, or lets say South Indians have difficulty pronouncing the Z in certain usages. Pakistanis won't, they have very clear pronunciation of the Z.

The actual word is Zulm, and Ziyadti. For example Indians would say Jeera, while the word is Zeera. As far as accents are concerned, thats a dead give away.


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## donrahul

Asim Aquil said:


> Well notice the moment where he says "Humaray saath julam aur jiyadati hui hai".
> 
> Hyderabadis, or lets say South Indians have difficulty pronouncing the Z in certain usages. Pakistanis won't, they have very clear pronunciation of the Z.
> 
> The actual word is Zulm, and Ziyadti. For example Indians would say Jeera, while the word is Zeera. As far as accents are concerned, thats a dead give away.



With all due respect to your logical reasoning, I still wonder, what revenge could be settled by Hindu's or Indian Muslims in killing Israeli Jews or for that matter Western Nationals. If its a Indian Agency RAW plot, I assure you, Indian Intelligence is not as good as your own ISI and is made up of set of people who have to pass exam and they may not even have military training. and they have lot of internal problems in their own dept  to pul such an audacious plan. 

Offtopic : I wonder where that shitehead assistant of harish chandra idiot is, with his beautiful agenda.. I say, he eats up your own Zaid fellow in that matter..


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## PeaceForAll

Here is the typical Hyderabad (India) accent - 






and its very different from the accent shown in the footage of the TV channel..


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## Awesome

PeaceForAll said:


> Here is the typical Hyderabad (India) accent -
> 
> i17XvpwNEN0[/media] - Planning chalree(this is one more Funny Clip from Angrez
> 
> and its very different from the accent shown in the footage of the TV channel..


This sounds more like the typical Mumbai slangs.

Anyway, the point was Deccan. Deccan is not limited to Hyderabad. And the Julm and jiyadti are typically ONLY Indian.


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## PeaceForAll

I have searched the net and frankly, its no where in south India can we find this sort of linguistic flair. This definitely belongs to norther part of India (if it is India) or may be Pakistan (because of the heavy punjabi accent).
You are welcome to dig it sir, but you wont find any accent in south India which matches the accent of this guy. (I am hoping you will traut me on this - but its matter of trust, I cannot expect trust here on a debatable issue - so I welcome u to dig and see for yourself! )


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## PeaceForAll

Asim Aquil said:


> This sounds more like the typical Mumbai slangs.
> 
> Anyway, the point was Deccan. Deccan is not limited to Hyderabad. And the Julm and jiyadti are typically ONLY Indian.



the film is based in Hyderabad(India), all actors belong to Hyderabad(India) and the film became popular because of the different dialect the Hyderabad (India)people speak


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## chalaccepted

Hello

I have some questions. Somebody answer, Please.

1. Since I am not too attached to the media nowadays, I have not seen any dead body of the terrorists. Have you??

2. After 26 Nov, 10 P.M. (i.e. the first day of the attacks), when was the last time you heard some news/analysis regarding Col. Srikant Purohit, and his terrorist group in indian army? Especially on some indian news outlet?

3. "Conventional" muslim terrorists have beard. any picture with beard in this case?? 

3.1 If they were smart enough to shave their beards to avoid being caught, were they dumb enough to leave their foot-prints to lead to Pakistan.​4. Isn't Rehman Chacha too filmy in his looks? 

5. I am not too aware of navy/marine issues. so I have to ask this question. How much a fishing launch can travel? I mean is it possible to travel 500 nautical miles on a boat/launch?

6. If terrorists killed 4 fishermen near mumbai one month earlier, what was the the investigation on the matter?

7. If it was that easy to attack high value targets, why these terrorists not killed hindutva leaders. I mean obviously terrorist must be having more problems with them than with railway station people. The press coverage would be comparatively greater in that case.

Thanks


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## EagleEyes

PeaceForAll said:


> How come then that they have never sought international publicity so far? the attack seems very similar to that of ppl from alqaeda - which for sure has not attacked in India as al qaeda itself.



Last month or so they exploded around 20+ bombs in a day. Leaving some bombs ready to be defused or in the middle of the streets. Such amount of bombs should be enough to gain International attention but they were unable to. It seems likely that they followed the same pattern that was used in Marriot Hotel bombing to get the attention of International media they needed. Heck.. Deccan Mujahideen (a name similar to Indian Mujhaideen took the responsibility). Now since it seems to strain the relationship between Pakistan and India, they are being quite.. and thats exactly they want. As far as Al-Qaeda is concerned. It doesn't have to be Al-Qaeda anymore, they are more or less based on Al-Qaeda with little or no attachments as i mentioned about the Somalian example of their home grown terrorists. The similarity seems to grow and we accept them as Al-Qaeda linked.. where as in my humble opinion Al-Qaeda is pretty much broken.



> It seems to be the truth for now. There has been a good amount of proof shown - even other wise, lets assume they came by sea - then what do u think will u answer?



It doesn't make sense for them to come through sea. Like Asim has mentioned. Indians started reporting that the ship carried out these attacks without proper proof or the terrorist being captured. The ship carrying so obvious links to Pakistan (products popular in Pakistan, and products that dont exist in Pakistan, but still are written MADE IN PAKISTAN) to me seems something fishy.



> Quite possible- but then again, there was never a strike like this at this magnitude - it is definitely a different set of people mastrminding this - so even if there were home grown terrorists, There seems to be guidance from higher echelons of Al qaeda and the likes - which again points to links to Taliban, LeT and Finally - Pakistan because they right now reside there!!



Pakistan will continue to deny because they see no link or clear evidence. Pakistan is willing to cooperate as they know that the problem exist. But there needs to be solid backing.


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## Awesome

I'll bite.

Now I'm doubting the whole Indian story. If they really had a smoking gun with this kid, they would've put him on Star News and blasted Pakistan away. Why aren't they even SHOWING this guy on TV? Why hasn't a camera gone close to the holding cell? No interview, no nothing.

They were beating him in public, but can't show him to us in a controlled environment?


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## Imran Khan

i will wait one day they say he daid or lose or any new drama its time to ask them please show us this guy we wana see whats his realty whats he is exactly but i am sceared indians must cook these days inside abut this guy.


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## was




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## dr.umer

India is repeating again and again that arrested "militant" is from Pakistan because he said so. I agree with Asim that they need to bring him on TV. 

Also they need to allow Pakistan authorities to investigate him.


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## Goodperson

See Captured Terrorist thread I have posted a video link regarding "FBI, Scotland Yard and Israeli intelligence agencies questioning the captured terrorist "


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Some Indian media news flashes indicating the FBI may be interrogating him for the first time (or maybe they just took them into the same building, and knowing the Indian media recently, the whole thing got blown out of proportion ).

Given the inconsistencies in the Indian media during this period, we'll just have to wait for official confirmation.

Any news on India's response to the joint investigation offer? 

That would allow our guys access to the captured terrorist and start verifying some claims - the alleged Faridkot link so far seems to be false.


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## Goodperson

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Some Indian media news flashes indicating the FBI may be interrogating him for the first time (or maybe they just took them into the same building, and knowing the Indian media recently, the whole thing got blown out of proportion ).
> 
> Given the inconsistencies in the Indian media during this period, we'll just have to wait for official confirmation.
> 
> Any news on India's response to the joint investigation offer?
> 
> That would allow our guys access to the captured terrorist and start verifying some claims - the alleged Faridkot link so far seems to be false.



Captured live terrorist is far better than dead terrorist. FBI team is already in Mumbai with Scotland yard and MOSSAD, As far as their interrogation goes only selective information may be shared with media rest is upto speculation.


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## daredevil

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Some Indian media news flashes indicating the FBI may be interrogating him for the first time (or maybe they just took them into the same building, and knowing the Indian media recently, the whole thing got blown out of proportion ).
> 
> Given the inconsistencies in the Indian media during this period, we'll just have to wait for official confirmation.
> 
> *Any news on India's response to the joint investigation offer?
> *
> That would allow our guys access to the captured terrorist and start verifying some claims - the alleged Faridkot link so far seems to be false.



I think the offer was snubbed. It was the feeling that Joint Anti-Terrorism efforts has nothing to show but squat, same would happen with Joint-investigation.


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## daredevil




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## Imran Khan

daredevil said:


>



welcome back


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## Awesome

Goodperson said:


> See Captured Terrorist thread I have posted a video link regarding "FBI, Scotland Yard and Israeli intelligence agencies questioning the captured terrorist "


Yeah but they should SHOW the guy in captivity. 

The FBI is giving vague statements that he might be what the Indians are saying he is. Even they are not sure.

Today Condi took a very neutral stand and urged people not to jump the gun. Everyone's minds are slowly changing about the whole fiasco. Now all western papers are categorically pointing out that all Indian leads are from this ONE guy only.

So how much of a trump card is this guy? India should be confidently showing him off, not just making claims about him.


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## t-birds

While stock-taking has only just begun, it already appears as if some things are being covered up. Some things deserve an immediate answer  how many terrorists were there actually; how did they reach their respective destinations inland; and is it possible that super-terrorists simply walked out with the real survivors after having utilised the mercenaries to the hilt, just as they had murdered the navigators of the boats that brought them to Mumbai? 

Current media reports and government sources say that the terrorists came by sea, landing near the Gateway of India or Colaba. This certainly explains the attacks on the sea front hotels like Taj, Oberoi and the Nariman House. But the question remains  how did they get to the CST station, Cama Hospital, and other places inland? Someone must have provided transport and back-up. 

By no logic can anyone believe that nine separate sites in a city could be held to ransom by just 10 men. It is particularly difficult to believe that gigantic hotels like the Taj could be ruined and scores of guests killed or injured by just two men (sometimes the figure goes to six). Even two men per floor could not have caused the kind of death and destruction that did happen. A small place like Nariman House, yes, but Taj and Oberoi  I dont believe it. And if there were six persons at Taj and at least two at Nariman House, that means only two persons destroyed the Oberoi? 

Rediff.com has interviewed the doctors who conducted the post-mortems on the dead hostages and terrorists, and it is their expert opinion that a battle of attrition took place over three days at the Oberoi and Taj hotels. The mutilation of the bodies was unlike anything they had seen in their careers in forensics. 

For one, the bodies of the victims bore horrible signs of torture. Now this is understandable if the victims are being tormented by half-human beasts, but it seems strange that two terrorists could simultaneously fight and keep Indian commandos at bay for 62 hours, and also have the time to torture their victims. Yet the doctors were emphatic that:
It was apparent that most of the dead were tortured. What shocked me were the telltale signs showing clearly how the hostages were executed in cold blood. 

To my mind, it seems apparent that the terrorists who kept the NSG commandos engaged and those who tortured and killed the hotel staff and guests were two separate groups. 

This suspicion is intensified by the startling revelation that the terrorists also did not meet a clean death. Doctors who conducted the post-mortem said the bodies of the terrorists  especially their faces - were beyond recognition. The security forces identified the bodies as those of terrorists [on TV they said it was because of the presence of weaponry near the bodies]. 

One terrorist was shot through either eye (i.e., both eyes!!!). As the NSG commandos never got to such close range with the terrorists, and nobody commits suicide by shooting both his own eyes, it follows that the killers were somebody else. Since none of the hotel guests could have the kind of weaponry used in the conflict, this suggests the presence of a mysterious third party, making the terrorists the victims of a classic double-cross  the stuff of spy thrillers. Actually, it reminds one of the convenient murder of the alleged killer of President John F. Kennedy. 

Hence it would be entirely in order to closely interrogate each and every guest, especially the foreign guests, before allowing them to leave the country. Without false emotionalism, we should also fingerprint them for the future; who knows what Interpol cooperation may throw up. 

Top Russian counter-terrorism expert, Vladimir Klyukin, an Afghan war veteran, opines that the Mumbai attackers were not ordinary terrorists and were probably trained by the special operations forces set up in Pakistan by US intelligence prior to the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan. In his view, the nature of the Mumbai events suggests the signature of the Green Flag special operations forces created by the Americans in Pakistan, just a year before the Soviet withdrawal. 

Guerrilla operations of the Mumbai kind require at least two-three years of preparatory work with experienced instructors. Raw trainees cannot hold four huge complexes in a city to ransom for so long. The Russian Interfax news agency reported the former KGB veteran as surmising the involvement of at least 50 terrorists, given the geography and sheer scale of the attacks. This seems like a legitimate estimation. 

What is more, the only way 9 coordinated attacks can occur simultaneously is by using Global Positioning Systems (GPS) or live maps for communication and control. These are not normally owned by private parties. Initial investigations also suggested that as many as seven terrorists included mostly British-born Pakistanis, and one does hope that these leads are not covered up. The reports also suggested some gunmen were captured, but later media reports highlighted that only one terrorists was caught alive at the railway station. So there is a lot of confusion here that needs to be cleared up. 

Certainly the hints about British involvement, openly asserted by the outspoken Lyndon LaRouche, need investigation. 

Media has been heavily criticized in some quarters for airing visuals of NSG commandos dropping on the hotel roofs from helicopters, and thus giving operational secrets away to the militants watching TV inside. If the criticism is to be valid, however, we will have to accept that the terrorists had more men inside who could be deployed to watch TV and give information which would enable them to react and rebuff the aerial assault. There is no way 2 to 6 terrorists could torture victims sadistically and kill them brutally, watch TV, fight and keep the security forces at bay for 62 hours, and then kill themselves or each other in impossible ways. 

The death of terrorists points to a clear double-cross and also the possibility of the involvement of more than one religious denomination. That the terrorists did not prepare for death by carrying potassium cyanide is well known; nor did they simply intend to blow themselves up like the usual suicide bombers. The surviving terrorist has revealed that they were told of an escape plan  and no doubt that plan was used by those who killed their fellow terrorists and walked out free! 

This writer has consistently stated that modern, late 20th-21st century jihad is qualitatively different from the medieval jihad in which Muslim armies led by generals or kings ran over much of the world in Europe, North Africa, and Asia. Contemporary jihad is a mercenary tool of Western colonialism, serving a colonial intent with devout slavishness, and this seems borne out by the events of Mumbai.

What remains to be seen, however, is whether or not the Islamic world wakes up to the reality of its own self-enslavement. India on its part has demonstrated that no matter how long it takes to get operational, no matter the cost in terms of live and property, the territory of Bharat Mata will be protected. 

It is more than likely that Pakistan was rebuked by its British and American friends (read Masters) for agreeing to send the ISI chief to assist in the investigations, and forced to backtrack on a solemn assurance. The teams from Scotland Yard and America, ostensibly coming to assist India in the probe, are more likely trying to ascertain the extent of evidence with India. 

It is pertinent that the recovery of a satellite phone from the trawler abandoned with the body of the Gujarati captain revealed that the trawler had been hijacked to Karachi Port, and while there, calls were made even to Australia (where the CIA has a famous outpost!) 

Interestingly, General Leonid Ivashov, who was Chief of Staff of the Russian armed forces when the Twin Towers tragedy happened on 11 September 2001, insists that there is no such thing as international terrorism and that the September 11 attacks were the result of a set-up. What we are seeing is a manipulation by the big powers; this terrorism would not exist without them. Instead of faking a world war on terror, the best way to reduce such attacks is through respect for international law and peaceful cooperation among countries and their citizens [http://www.voltairenet.org/article133909.html]

Globalization creates the conditions for the emergence of this terror. It seeks to design a new world geo-strategic map; appropriate the resources of the planet; erase cultural identities; and subjugate States before a global oligarchy. Thus, terrorism, according to Gen. Ivashov, is an instrument of world politics, a means to install a unipolar world with a sole world headquarters, a pretext to erase national borders and to establish the rule of a new world elite. It is precisely this elite that constitutes the key element of world terrorism, its ideologist and its godfather. 

Contemporary international terrorism combines the use of terror by State and non-State political structures to attain political objectives through intimidation of people, psychological and social destabilization, elimination of resistance inside power organizations, and the creation of appropriate conditions for the manipulation of the countries policies and the behaviour of people. Media complicity helps. But terrorism is not possible without the support of political and business circles that wield the funds to finance it  and Pakistan is notoriously bankrupt. 

More pertinently, only secret services and their current or retired chiefs have the ability to plan and execute an operation of such complexity and scale. It is secret services that create, finance and control extremist organizations.


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## jeypore

Asim Aquil said:


> I'll bite.
> 
> Now I'm doubting the whole Indian story. If they really had a smoking gun with this kid, they would've put him on Star News and blasted Pakistan away. Why aren't they even SHOWING this guy on TV? Why hasn't a camera gone close to the holding cell? No interview, no nothing.
> 
> They were beating him in public, but can't show him to us in a controlled environment?



In Unite States, The Oklahoma city bombing where Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols where convicted, and since there arrest, there has been no interviews or showing them on TV. Infact Timothy McVeigh was executed in 4 years by leathel injection. Which in United States average death penalties are minimum 10 years before the person is executed.

So your argument based on why they are not pandering this guy front of TV seems little odd. This people who commit haines crimes are not ment for showbizz or fame, they are criminal of the highest kind, and should be treated accordingly. The athorities are doing the right things here, where they are letting the States, the brits and Isarel to interrogate this person.


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## Zaheerkhan

Can I request you to post the link for this article sir?? ..If this is an article written by you, then, its ok.

Lets now see, 10 terrorists leave Karach, first by a Pakistani merchant vessel, at sea they were looking for a suitable trawler which they could hijack to force them to take these terrorists to Mumbai.They found the Indian fishing trawler 'Kuber' . They hijacked the fishing trawler, be-headed 4 fishermen and took the Captain hostage at gun point.The Pakistani M.V had stored fuel onboard in containers to be transferred into the hijacked Indian trawller. Set sail towards Mumbai.Armed to the teath, and aided by GPS system and satellite phones ,Managed to evade the coast guard and reached rear the Mumbai coast and waited for darkness to fall.In the cover of darkness, kill the captain of the trawller,then inflate the motor powerd water rafts and come towards a sleepy small fishing harbour. Alight there and split into groups of 3-3-2-2 each and head into different directions. Local people who see these suspicious men report to a local police constible who does not pay heed. 3 people go towards the Taj, all the security was present at the front door, and the terrorists entered to the rear entrance and created havoc inside. 3 terrorists left for Oberoy-trident , 2 towards Nariman point, and the other 2 struck at cts terminal,leopord hotel,regal cinema,cama hospital,were later intercepted by the police,one killed and the other caught alive.

How they managed to create havoc inside the Taj and oberoy, the mumbai police underestimated the gravity of the stuation. They thought they could handle the situation. Most of the conistables entered the Taj and oberoy with vintage .303 rifles. They were utterly underequipped and precious time was consumed to call in the NSG commandos. The commandos arrived only in the early hours of the morning and the terrorists had one full night to create havoc inside the hotels. 

The targets were clear, strike where it hurts the most, at the "gateway to India." What was baffeling was the pinpoint accurate planning by these people,it was an excellent plan, nobody would have known all this if it wasent for the arrested militant Kasab.
I dont think the planners in their wildest dreams would have thought this would have happened. He spilled the beans. The trawller recovered, the gps systems were recovered, the data had waypoints from Karachi to Mumbai and back fed in the system.The Gps call analogs obtained, all the messeges sent using the set have been intercepted. 

Now, what ever is there it is there for the world to see. The Fbi chef is here , the Israeli chief is here, and so was your IsI chief invited, but what was he scared of?? He would have got all the proof!! ??He could have come here took a first hand view of the situation and collect all the proof, dismiss the claims and got back. The Pakistani point of view would have been much more credable to the world.Even we Indians would have thought that there is something worth to think about the Pakistan's point of view. Now, no wonder nobody is buying your point of view.


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## superbikez

*simple logic ...

After Mumbai Attacks = US said "Pakistan not involve"
Molen met with Kayan Todayi = Rice met with Indian ministry => Now Final statement from US is [Pakistan involve]

simple meaning

Molen deal with kayani that Pakistan army continue operation in WAR ON TERROR n army not change there location (northern side) so US satisfy, another side Rice change her statement after molen met with kayani is.. now (Pakistan involve in mumbai attacks)

nice theory LOL*


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## Imran Khan

Hunting Mumbai militant's roots 
The one known surviving militant behind last week's terrible attacks in Mumbai is reported to have come from the Pakistani village of Faridkot. The BBC's Syed Shoaib Hasan travelled there to speak to some of the villagers. 






Faridkot villagers do not want to be linked to the Mumbai attacks 

"We're tired of being hounded by people from the media," says Bilal, a Faridkot villager. "They have been coming here every day since the news broke." 

He is referring to reports in the international media, following the terror attacks in Mumbai, which said the only surviving militant comes from Faridkot in the province of Punjab. 

The reports, which have led to an outcry in India, said the gunman is a Pakistani national variously named as Ajmal Amir Qasab or Kasav. 

The information came from interrogation of the gunman, the reports added. 

Fertile recruiting ground 

They also said that Qasab is a 21-year-old and a fluent English speaker. 

That description seems to be at odds with the general population in the village he is said to hail from. 

Confusingly, there are three villages by the name of Faridkot in this part of southern Punjab. A BBC Urdu service colleague visited two of them and found no one who knew of the man currently in Indian detention. 

I visited a third Faridkot, about 50km (31 miles) from Multan on the road to Khanewal. 

It is an archetypal Punjabi village - a dusty enclave of mud and stone buildings of about 4,000 people. 




We are all hardworking, honest people here 

Farmer Mohammad Ilyas Khan 

Almost all of the villagers are semi-literate farmers and labourers. They are surrounded by green fields and brimming canals. 

Nearby Multan - known as city of the saints - is one of the oldest cities in the world and the hometown of Pakistan's current prime minister and foreign minister. 

Located close to the Indian border, the city also houses the headquarters of the Wifaq-ul-Madaris (association of religious schools), which operates establishments throughout Pakistan. 

Khanewal is another, smaller city in southern Punjab, an area which since the partition of India has long been known for its strong religious sentiments and staunchly anti-Indian views. 

It is also one of Pakistan's most under-developed and poverty stricken areas. 

Multan and its adjoining districts have served as a fertile recruitment ground for militant organisations fighting in Kashmir and Afghanistan. 






In particular, hundreds of young men joined the Lashkar-e-Toiba and the Jaish-e-Mohammad groups to fight Indian forces in Kashmir. 

'Indian propaganda' 

But just a week ago, this Faridkot was just another obscure village in Pakistan's rural landscape. Now, question marks over the identity of Mumbai's attackers has shaken it out of its rustic existence. 




CAPTURED GUNMAN 

Suspect named as Azam Amir Qasab
21 years old, fluent English speaker
Told police he is from Faridkot village, in Pakistan's Punjab province
Said the attackers took orders from handlers in Pakistan


Muslims refuse to bury militants
Pakistanis wary of Mumbai claims
In pictures: Mumbai aftermath 

School is out, and dozens of girls and boys line the broken streets as we venture deep into the village. 

A local and his friends are willing to talk, although they are a little jaded by the questions. 

"We are all hardworking, honest people here," says Mohammad Ilyas Khan, a local farmer. 

"People in the village rarely leave and that is only for occasional work or business trips." 

Ilyas Khan adds that no-one from the village has been to India, and he does not know of anyone who has been a member of a militant organisation. 

"There were three Ajmals in the village, and none of them fits the description of the man the media has named," he explains. 




"One Ajmal worked in Faisalabad (another city in the Punjab) and was killed in an accident. The other two are young men who live in the village. One works as a waiter and the other is employed in a factory." 

Qamar-uz-Zaman, another villager, says the men have been recently questioned by Pakistani security agencies. 


Faridkot residents fear for the future if war with India breaks out 
"Obviously, it was a serious accusation and the officials came here to check things out," he said. "They checked the ID cards of both the men and their activities." 

Evidently, the security personnel were satisfied by the answers they received as no arrests or detentions have taken place so far. 

But the villagers are quite perturbed by this recent turn of events, and vehemently denounce what they call "Indian propaganda". 

"No man from our village has ever been involved in any such activity," one says. "It is not fair that so many people have been disturbed by these false accusations." 

Another says: "We are worried now because India is turning belligerent and is threatening to attack. We are scared of what can happen if war breaks out. 

"The loss will not be just of Faridkot, or Khanewal. It will be for all of Pakistan."


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

daredevil said:


> I think the offer was snubbed. It was the feeling that Joint Anti-Terrorism efforts has nothing to show but squat, same would happen with Joint-investigation.



Before you merely dismiss out of hand the 'joint investgation', when were these 'Joint Anti-Terrorism efforts' initiated, and what tangible 'effort' was made in this respect, what goals were set? 

We cannot make a comparison or use one to invalidate the other unless we know what the JAT efforts were comprise of. 

Secondly, an investigation into the Mumbai attacks would for obvious reasons be different than the more general and vague JAT.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

jeypore said:


> The athorities are doing the right things here, where they are letting the States, the brits and Isarel to interrogate this person.



So says the media, which has been shown to be ridiculously wrong and all over the place with its 'fact's so far.

Pardon me for being skeptical of this particular claim.


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## dr.umer

View attachment 0953363eeda7e9813a654aaa14dca6e0.jpg


Mumbai - Pic of arrested militant.


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## Imran Khan

in small image its looks young but here litlle big then that why ???????? may be he is beaten by pablic that why .


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## daredevil

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Before you merely dismiss out of hand the 'joint investgation', when were these 'Joint Anti-Terrorism efforts' initiated, and what tangible 'effort' was made in this respect, what goals were set?
> 
> We cannot make a comparison or use one to invalidate the other unless we know what the JAT efforts were comprise of.
> 
> Secondly, an investigation into the Mumbai attacks would for obvious reasons be different than the more general and vague JAT.



I have to find the links for original JAT agreement. You can find some information this news clip



> *Indo-Pak anti-terror mechanism moot today*
> 
> * Pakistan likely to press India to share details on Samjhota tragedy
> 
> Staff Report
> 
> ISLAMABAD: The third meeting of the Pakistan-India Joint Anti-Terrorism Mechanism (JATM) is being held here today (Tuesday) to increase counter-terrorism efforts and share information to find the perpetrators of terrorism in both countries.
> 
> Foreign Office spokesman Muhammad Sadiq confirmed the convening of the third meeting of Joint Anti-Terrorism Mechanism. He said the Indian team would arrive early on Tuesday and go to the Foreign Office for a formal meeting, starting at 11am.
> 
> Additional Secretary (Political & International Organisations) Indian Ministry of External Affairs Vivek Katju would lead the Indian delegation and Additional Secretary (Asia & Pacific) Ministry of Foreign Affairs Masood Khalid would lead the Pakistani side.
> 
> Tragedy: Sources said Pakistan would press India to share the details of the Samjhota train tragedy in which more than 50 passengers, mostly Pakistanis, were killed. India had assured Pakistan it will share its findings on the terrorist act.
> 
> India might ask Pakistan for specific information on Mumbai, Ajmer and Hyderabad bomb incidents in which a number of lives were lost. India might also ask for certain information about the recent Jaipur bomb blast, the sources said.
> 
> The last meeting of the JATM was held in New Delhi on October 22, 2007. The mechanism was set up as result of September 2006 Havana meeting of President Pervez Musharraf and Indian Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh.
> 
> Earlier the composite dialogue between the two countries had been suspended in the wake of the July 13 2006 Mumbai train bombing in which more than 100 people were killed. The two leaders decided to formulate a mechanism to stop the blame game culture that existed between the two and co-ordinate to stop terrorism in the region.
> 
> The purpose of the JATM is to provide a proper forum for co-operation in sharing information to stop terrorist acts, and investigate terror activities with the aim of finding the perpetrators behind such attacks. Though the JATM has met several times previously, so far no credible information has been shared due to suspicion surrounding both countries from both sides.




Till now nothing has come out of this, both ways. What tangible effort were taken in this regard is still unknown. I think given this experience, there is a high chance that India will not agree for a Joint-Investigation.


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## kingfisher99

i aint getting your point. kindly clarify.. whose molen.. ?? you address them like they are your best friends..


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## Neo

May he's referring to Mullen?


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## kingfisher99

Neo said:


> May he's referring to Mullen?



sorry i didnt about him.. who is he..?


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## Neo

kingfisher99 said:


> sorry i didnt about him.. who is he..?



Admiral Michael Mullen, head of US miltary.



> *US military chief urges Pakistan to probe Mumbai attacks links​*
> Wed Dec 3, 2008
> 
> ISLAMABAD (AFP)  The head of the US military asked Pakistan Wednesday to thoroughly investigate any role militant groups based in Pakistan may have had in last week's Mumbai attacks.
> 
> Admiral Michael Mullen held talks with President Asif Ali Zardari and Pakistan's top security and military leadership amid US efforts to calm tensions between Islamabad and New Delhi in the wake of the deadly assault.
> 
> According to the US embassy, Mullen "urged them to investigate aggressively any and all possible ties to groups based in Pakistan," which has vowed to work jointly with India to probe the attacks, in which 188 people were killed.
> 
> "All agreed that the tragedy in Mumbai represents a dangerous escalation in the sophistication of extremist attacks and an increased threat to the entire region," the embassy said in a statement.
> 
> Mullen's comments came after US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said during a visit to New Delhi that Pakistan should "cooperate fully and transparently" with India's investigation into the coordinated strike.
> 
> Rice is due to fly to Islamabad on Thursday to hold talks with Pakistani leaders, officials here said, without elaborating.
> 
> Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, also used the talks to urge Pakistan to do more in the battle against Al-Qaeda-linked militants based in its tribal belt bordering Afghanistan.
> 
> Pakistan has pledged to assist in the Mumbai probe and has offered to set up a joint investigation mechanism to get to the bottom of the tragedy, which has threatened a slow-moving peace process between the nuclear-armed rivals.
> 
> While Indian and US officials have said the Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba was likely behind the attacks, President Zardari has denied Islamabad had any involvement.
> 
> "I think these are stateless actors who have been operating throughout the region. The gunmen, whoever they are, they are all stateless actors who are holding hostage the whole world," he told CNN television.
> 
> The United States is particularly concerned about any military stand-off with India that might see Pakistan move troops from its western border with Afghanistan -- a crucial battleground in the US "war on terror."
> 
> India has demanded Pakistan arrest and extradite 20 terror suspects, including the founder of Lashkar-e-Taiba, Hafiz Saeed.
> 
> Others named were Maulana Masood Azhar, chief of the Jaish-e-Mohammed rebel group, and Dawood Ibrahim, who is wanted in India on charges of masterminding serial bombings in Mumbai in 1993 that killed around 300 people.
> 
> Pakistan has suggested setting up a "joint investigation mechanism" but says it wants concrete proof that all the attackers were Pakistanis.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## PeaceForAll

deleted - unnecessary..


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## kingfisher99

PeaceForAll said:


> deleted - unnecessary..



someone imp from your country  oops where did your post go..


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## Neo

*Pakistan again offers joint investigation ​* 
ISLAMABAD (December 03 2008): Pakistan on Tuesday again offered Indian government to carry out joint investigation of the Mumbai carnage to unearth the real culprits behind the incident. While giving a policy statement, Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi strongly condemned the incident, and said no justification could be given for such a horrendous act.

He said Pakistan was willing to fully cooperate with India in investigation of the Mumbai attacks. He termed the terrorism as a major challenge of the times, and said it was common enemy that needed to be tackled through joint efforts. The Foreign Minister said the region was passing through a critical phase and both the sides needed to show tolerance, seriousness and patience and avoid from finger pointing.

He said the prevailing situation did not allow any irresponsible act by any side, and added that there should be no blame game and finger pointing from any side. Qureshi said Pakistan's response and attitude on this issue was balanced, measured and conciliatory.

The Minister said the government of Pakistan had offered a joint investigative mechanism and initiative to probe the matter. He said: "The composite dialogue process between Pakistan and India was progressing at a good pace and it was important that the two sides continue it."

Referring to the national conference on security, being convened by Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani here on Wednesday, he said that it aimed at consulting the political leadership of the country to take them into confidence on this issue.

The Minister thanked the politicians, who have accepted the invitation of the Prime Minister to attend the important conference, and added the government was keen to listen to the proposals and ideas of the politicians. He said it was vital that the nation today stood united at this critical juncture. He asked the nation not to worry as the nation, the armed forces and the government were united to defend the ideological and geographical frontiers of the country.


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## Neo

*There is no 'Ajmal Ameer Kasab' in Faridkot Nadra record ​* 
ISLAMABAD (December 03 2008): There is no Ajmal Ameer Kasab in the record of National Database and Registration Authority (Nadra) residing in village Faridkot of Khanewal district of Southern Punjab as alleged by Indian law enforcement agencies and media. Records of three persons named Ajmal were found in the record of Nadra.

According to the records available with Nadra, one Ajmal has died, while two others are working in Faridkot village, well placed sources in Nadra told Business Recorder on Tuesday. They said that Ajmal son of Shafi died a few years back, while Ajmal son of Haq Nawaz is a labourer and Ajmal son of Ahmed Bakhsh are alive.

On the directives of some higher authorities, Nadra held a thorough search of its database to get any clue about the alleged gunman, Indian law enforcement agencies have detained in Mumbai attacks.

When asked about any information about Ajmal Ameer Kasab, the Nadra officials said that there is no person registered with Nadra namely Ajmal Ameer Kasab from Faridkot village. The record of Akmal son of Jalaluddin was found in this village, who have died 25 years back and no person in the village has the name Ameer or Azam.

It is just a face saving by Indian law enforcement agencies and media to hide the failure of Indian intelligence agencies, they said, adding that there is no clear name they have given of the alleged gunman, as they gave the names like, Azam Amir Kasav, Mohammad Ajmal Amir Iman, Ajmal Qasab, Ajmal Amir Kamal, Ajmal Amir Kasab, Azam Ameer Qasab, Mohammad Ajmal Qasam, Ajmal Mohammed Amir Kasab, Mohammad Ajmal Amir Kasar and Amjad Amir Kamaal.

It is also learnt that for the last three days police and officials of other law enforcement agencies have been combing this sleepy village in search of clues to the identity of the lone gunman captured in the Mumbai terror attacks, sources said, adding that besides LEAs, national and international media has picketed in Faridkot to find any clue about the alleged gunman.

But so far they all have failed to get any clue of any such person as the village elders told reporters that all the people in this village are settled before the partition and from that time not a single person visited India nor anyone from India visited this village.


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## jeypore

> There is no 'Ajmal Ameer Kasab' in Faridkot Nadra record



ofcourse not.


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## daredevil

dr.umer said:


> India is repeating again and again that arrested "militant" is from Pakistan because he said so. I agree with Asim that they need to bring him on TV.





What is the use of bringing him in front of camera?. He might be assassinated given the value of this guy in the investigations. FBI, Scotland-yard and Israeli authorities have already started interrogating him.


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## BanglaBhoot

*Ex-U.S. Official Cites Pakistani Training for India Attackers *

WASHINGTON  A former Defense Department official said Wednesday that American intelligence agencies had determined that former officers from Pakistans Army and its powerful Inter-Services Intelligence agency helped train the Mumbai attackers. 

But the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said that no specific links had been uncovered yet between the terrorists and the Pakistani government.

His disclosure came as Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice held meetings with Indian leaders in New Delhi and Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, met with their Pakistani counterparts in Islamabad, in a two-pronged effort to pressure Pakistan to cooperate fully in the effort to track down those responsible for the bloody attacks in Mumbai last week.

Also on Wednesday, a fully functional bomb was found and defused at a major Mumbai train station that had reopened days earlier, the Mumbai authorities announced. The discovery raised terrifying questions about why the authorities had failed to find it all this time.

Meanwhile, tens of thousands of people marched through Mumbai, both mourning the at least 173 dead and protesting the failures of Indian politicians and security services to protect citizens.

Ms. Rice strove to balance demands on both countries. She said that Pakistan had a special responsibility to cooperate with India and help prevent attacks in the future, here and elsewhere. At the same time, she warned India against hasty reaction that would yield what she called unintended consequences.

The response of the Pakistani government should be one of cooperation and of action, she said at an evening news conference in New Delhi with her Indian counterpart, Pranab Mukherjee. Any response needs to be judged by its effectiveness in prevention and also by not creating other unintended consequences or difficulties.

Mr. Mukherjee said his government was convinced that the attackers and their controllers came from Pakistan. He said he had conveyed to Ms. Rice the feeling of anger and deep outrage in India and said that his government was prepared to act with all the means at our disposal to protect Indian territory and citizens.

Both American and Indian authorities have concluded that there was little doubt that the Mumbai attacks were directed by militants inside Pakistan, and Indian officials have said they have identified three or four masterminds of the attack, including a leader of Lashkar-e-Taiba, Yusuf Muzzamil.

But Ms. Rice said it was premature to comment on whether any particular organization was responsible for the attacks on Indias financial and entertainment capital. She described the assault last week as distinct from others that had struck India since it targeted high-profile targets, including those frequented by foreigners, and appeared to be designed to send a message.

Ms. Rice said Pakistan had assured her that it would cooperate with India in its search for those responsible for the slaughter in Mumbai. She said President Asif Ali Zardari has told me he will follow leads wherever they go but she made clear that Washington expected him to do so wholeheartedly.

This is a time for everybody to cooperate and to do so transparently, and this is especially a time for Pakistan to do so, she said.

Lashkar-e-Taiba is officially banned in Pakistan, but it has been linked to the countrys powerful intelligence service and is believed to have moved its militant networks to Pakistans tribal areas.

For the moment, Mr. Zardari is playing down any links to Pakistan, including the Indian identification of the surviving attacker as a Pakistani. We have not been given any tangible proof to say that he is definitely a Pakistani. I very much doubt that hes a Pakistani, Mr. Zardari told CNNs Larry King Live, saying that his government would take action if India produced evidence to support the claim.

He also indicated that he would turn down an Indian demand, made on Monday night, to hand over about 20 fugitives, some of them linked to organized crime, said by India to be living in Pakistan. Rather, Mr. Zardari said, they would be tried in Pakistani courts if there were evidence to support a trial.

In Islamabad, Admiral Mullen met with President Zardari; the Pakistani national security adviser, Mahmud Ali Durrani; and several top military officials, including the Army chief of staff, Gen. Ashfaq Pervaiz Kayani, and the new intelligence chief, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha.

Admiral Mullen pressed the Pakistani leaders to crack down on Lashkar-e-Taibas network of training camps, including those in Pakistan-controlled Kashmir, and the organizations guerrilla recruiting efforts, an American military official said.

In New Delhi, response to a question, Ms. Rice said that the sophistication and choice of targets in Mumbai distinguished it from previous attacks. Earlier in the day, also in response to a question, Ms. Rice was asked about any possible involvement by Al Qaeda. Whether there is a direct Al Qaeda hand or not, this is clearly the kind of terror in which Al Qaeda participates, she said.

The bomb was found in a bag the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, the old Victoria station, one of the sites singled out for attack last week. It held about 20 pounds of explosives and was rigged with a timer, the Indian authorities said, but it was not clear whether it had not been activated or had malfunctioned.

The bag, apparently left behind by the attackers a week ago, had been collected along with a large pile of luggage that passengers had abandoned as they fled. That is where the police found it on Wednesday.

The station has been open for days, with thousands of passengers streaming through, and the discovery raised new questions about the capability of Indian security services.

There were conflicting accounts about how the bomb were found. Some reports said that the police had been tipped off by the surviving attacker, but others said a sniffer dog found it during a routine sweep of the abandoned luggage ahead of an officials visit. It was rendered neutral on the spot, the authorities said, and then subsequently removed for analysis. Train service was not disrupted for the maneuvers.

Ms. Rices diplomatic agenda takes place as Washington is seeking high-level cooperation in different spheres with both India and Pakistan, nuclear-armed neighbors. Washington wants Pakistan to help defeat Al Qaeda and Taliban insurgents along the border with Afghanistan.

But Pakistani security officials have threatened to withdraw troops from the lawless border region to redeploy them if India and Pakistan slide toward their fourth war since independence from Britain in 1947, Reuters reported.

In October, Washington opened a new chapter of cooperation with India when Congress gave final approval to a breakthrough agreement permitting civilian nuclear trade between the two countries for the first time in three decades.

Under the terms of the deal, the United States will now be able to sell nuclear fuel, technology and reactors to India for peaceful energy although New Delhi tested bombs in 1974 and 1998 and never signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. In exchange, India agreed to open up 14 civilian nuclear facilities to international inspection, but would continue to shield eight military reactors from outside scrutiny. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/04/world/asia/04india.html?_r=1&hp


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## BanglaBhoot

*Bombs found in Mumbai station only now*

Police searching a mound of baggage abandoned amid the carnage of the attack on Mumbai's main train station found two bombs Wednesday nearly a week after they were left there by gunmen -- in a stunning new example of the botched security that has become a major issue in India since the three-day siege.

The discovery came as Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee said India is "determined to act decisively" following the attacks, saying the evidence was clear the gunmen came from Pakistan and their handlers are still there.

His words, the strongest yet from the government, came as thousands of Indians many calling for war with Pakistan held a vigil in Mumbai to mark one week since the start of the rampage that killed 171 people.

While searching through about 150 bags, which police believed were left by the dozens of victims in the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus station, an officer found a suspicious-looking bag and called the bomb squad, said Assistant Commissioner of Police Bapu Domre. Inside were two 8.8-pound bombs, which were taken away and safely detonated, he said.

After the attacks, police found unexploded bombs at several of the sites, including two luxury hotels and a Jewish center. It was not immediately clear why the bags at the station were not examined earlier. The station, which serves hundreds of thousands of commuters, was declared safe and reopened hours after the attack.

The discovery has added to increasing accusations that India's security forces missed warnings and bungled its response to the Nov. 26-29 attacks.

Indian navy chief Sureesh Mehta has called the response to the attacks "a systemic failure." The country's top law enforcement official has resigned and two top state officials have offered to quit amid criticism that the 10 gunmen appeared better trained, better coordinated and better armed than police in Mumbai.

Mukherjee on Wednesday adopted a more strident tone against longtime rival Pakistan.

"There is no doubt the terrorist attacks in Mumbai were perpetrated by individuals who came from Pakistan and whose controllers are in Pakistan," Mukherjee said after a meeting with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, visiting as part of a U.S. effort to ease tensions in the region. 

Washington Times - Bombs found in Mumbai station only now


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## BanglaBhoot

*Pakistan moves up US priority list*

The terror attacks in India next door have emphasized the instability in the region.

By Howard LaFranchi | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

from the December 4, 2008 edition

Washington - Much as the 9/11 terror attacks quickly focused the Bush administration on its relations with Islamabad, last week's terrorist assault on Mumbai (formerly Bombay) only elevates the central preoccupation that Pakistan poses for President-elect Obama.

Already, the deteriorating stability of the world's only Muslim-majority nuclear power has figured in virtually every aspect of the incoming administration's national-security portfolio: from the war in Afghanistan, which is on Pakistan's western flank, to relations with nuclear rival India. If anything, the Mumbai attacks and the growing evidence of involvement by Pakistan-based militants will raise the urgency of developing a new approach to the Pakistan problem.

"If there's any silver lining out of this, it may be that Pakistan moves to the top of the next administration's urgent list," says Daniel Markey, a former State Department expert on South Asia now at the Council on Foreign Relations in Washington. Only perhaps after Iraq, Pakistan "outweighs the other challenges [because it] poses the most significant threat of global terrorism," he adds.

The stepped-up attention to Pakistan is expected to take a new direction under the Obama administration, with a focus on development and civilian-institution-building projects supplanting the Bush administration's multibillion-dollar relationship with the military-led government of the former president, Pervez Musharraf. Vice President-elect Joseph Biden in particular has advocated, from his chairmanship of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, a threefold increase in aid to fund a new long-term program aimed at weaning Pakistan's more restive regions from militant control.

The redirection of emphasis would seem to mirror the outlook of Pakistan's new civilian president, Asif Ali Zardari, who recently characterized the battle against the country's Taliban and other militant groups as a "war ... to win the hearts and minds of the people."

But if such a program is to get off the ground, rising India-Pakistan tensions after the Mumbai attacks will have to be addressed first. Doing so could further two aims: avoiding a show of force by the Pakistani military that could hobble or even topple the country's extremely weak civilian government, and keeping Pakistan from directing attention away from its nascent antimilitant effort along the border with Afghanistan toward the border with India.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was in New Delhi Wednesday with two messages. She urged the Indian government to practice restraint in the face of mounting evidence linking the Mumbai terrorists to Pakistan-based groups. She also urged the Pakistani government to deliver on its promise of cooperation in the investigation.

"I have said that Pakistan needs to act with resolve and urgency and cooperate fully and transparently," Secretary Rice said at a New Delhi press conference. "I know, too, this is a time when cooperation of all parties who have any information is really required."

Meanwhile, Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was in Islamabad, Pakistan, where he urged authorities to investigate "any and all possible ties to groups in Pakistan"  a clear if veiled reference to suspected links between the Mumbai terrorists and former or current Pakistani security forces.

The Bush administration knows the debilitating effect that rising tensions between the two South Asian nuclear rivals can have on antiterror efforts.

A 2001 bombing of the Indian Parliament  allegedly carried out by a Pakistan-based Islamist extremist organization with support from within Pakistan's powerful but murky intelligence organization  led to a mobilization of forces along both sides of the India-Pakistan border. That gave pro-Al Qaeda elements in Pakistan's western provinces greater freedom and time to establish their hold on territory bordering Afghanistan.

"Both countries amassed troops on their common border for about a year, and with a lot of sustained effort, the Bush administration was able to mitigate the tensions, assuage concerns, and make sure that things didn't spin out of control into armed conflict," says Malou Innocent, a South Asia expert at the Cato Institute in Washington.

"But it was also a year that attention was pulled away from the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan, and that's certainly a top concern for the US now," she adds.

Indeed, inciting tensions between the two rivals  and fogging Pakistan's focus on militants in the western tribal areas  may have been the chief aims of the Mumbai operation. "It would hardly be surprising if the masterminds behind the [Mumbai terrorists] weren't aiming at raising tensions between India and Pakistan all along," says Mr. Markey of the Council on Foreign Relations.

Making sure such a scheme is not successful will be the first order of business for the United States  under President Bush and Mr. Obama. But beyond that, Markey says, the Obama administration will face the same tough questions about Pakistan's intelligence community and military and their ties to militant forces  even as it works to strengthen a pro-Western civilian government.

"You have to have something in place that looks like the Zardari government to even contemplate the shift towards development and economic projects," he says. Another military coup against a civilian government "would set back the partnership by perhaps years and throw a wrench in any plans for a new direction." 

Pakistan moves up US priority list | csmonitor.com


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## PeaceForAll

Pakistan moves up the priority list for wrong reason while China, India etc are moving up because of their good show in economy and financial strength!!

The persons I hate the most are those who take Pakistan back - the fundamentalists and the extremists. We are a vibrant multicultural society and those guys are spoiling it!!

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## Awesome

> WASHINGTON &#8212; A *former *Defense Department official said Wednesday that American intelligence agencies had determined that former officers from Pakistan&#8217;s Army and its powerful Inter-Services Intelligence agency helped train the Mumbai attackers.
> 
> But the official, who spoke on *condition of anonymity*, said that *no specific links had been uncovered* yet between the terrorists and the Pakistani government.



What a stupid way to report something. With no credibility of the person making these wild accuasations I can pretty much say anything right?


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## Flintlock

*China quizzes Pakistan over Mumbai attack*
2 Dec 2008, 1700 hrs IST, Saibal Dasgupta, TNN

BEIJING: Security agencies in China are quizzing their Pakistani counterparts about possible links between the attack in Mumbai and terrorist
organisations based in Pakistan, informed sources said.*

Chinese agencies have already taken measures to seal off possible loopholes in the country's borders with India, Pakistan and Afghanistan to ensure that no fugitives sneak in.* Beijing is particularly worried that Pakistan based terrorists might seek refuge Xinjiang, the terrorism hit province bordering Pakistan.
*
"We are ready to cooperate with India and Pakistan to fight terrorists groups that are active in the region," Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao told TOI. "*We face the danger of terrorists' attacks from supporters of the East Turkmenistan movement. So, we are very concerned," he said.

China, which is a close ally of Pakistan, is capable of persuading leaders in Islamabad to part with critical intelligence and even hand over terrorists to India. But Beijing might prefer to deal with Pakistani leaders on this score to safeguard itself from terrorism spilling across the border to its own territory.
*
Liu, the foreign ministry spokesman, said China was ready to join hands with India to track down terrorists groups that may have been involved in the attack in Mumbai on November 26.* The event demonstrated that India, Pakistan and Afghanistan continue to be serious targets of terrorists. Chinese security agencies were closely studying the incident to examine the role of terrorists in the region, he said.
*
"We have an arrangement with Pakistan on working jointly to combat terrorism," Liu said and added that the arrangement is working well.*

But an anti-terrorism expert of the Chinese government feels that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was pointing a finger at Pakistan to "cover up" what he described as the "flaws and shortcomings" of the Indian government. The terrorists in Mumbai attack may have come from within India's border, Li Wei, director of anti-terrorist studies of China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations told the official media.

*China's public security bureau recently indicated that most of the ultras active in the country's Xinjiang region have been trained and backed by Pakistan based terrorist organisations.* Beijing is worried that the close linkages between different terrorists groups and possible links with the al-Qaida could escalate the already volatile law and order situation on the China-Pakistan border, sources said.

Li, who works for the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations, said that the Mumbai attack will have profound influence on other nations in Asia. It is also a signal that existing measures on issues like early warning system and risk evaluation are not sufficient to be prepared for such brazen attacks, he said.

The remarks from the Chinese foreign ministry comes in the wake of reports that the Pakistani military brass has threatened to pull out troops from the Afghanistan border and thus bring an end to the US-led war on terror if there is any military action from the Indian side over the Mumbai attack.

Pakistan has for long managed to keep both US and China on tenterhooks by using threats of easing its military pressure on the Afghanistan border and weakening its surveillance of Afghanistan based terrorists groups including Al Qaida activists, informed sources said.

China quizzes Pakistan over Mumbai attack-China-World-The Times of India


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## Geromix

I think we should wait before making any conclusions in this regard.

I think the GoI wants the FBI and other investigating agencies investigate this whole matter along with the Indian authorities and then present the evidence they have collected to Pakistan.

Its a wait and watch policy untill the investigations are over.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

jeypore said:


> ofcourse not.



No need for the sarcasm -the NADRA search results are backed up by investigations into several Faridkot's by both Pakistani and Western media organizations, none of which have found any trace of this particular individual, based on the info we know about him so far.


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## aimarraul

another **** from india,worry about yourself ,took three days to kill 9 terrorist,you must be very proud of your security system,and how's your cop hold the 19th century's rifle against the AK47(OH,GOD,MY GUN CAN ONLY SHOOT ONCE)&#65292;STOP WASTING YOUR MONEY ON THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER

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## IceCold

> Beijing is particularly worried that *Pakistan based terrorists *might seek refuge Xinjiang, the terrorism hit province bordering Pakistan.



Yeah right. Another article with a whole load of crap being poured into it by the times of India and words being dismantled to suit the Indian flavor.

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## Flintlock

IceCold said:


> Yeah right. Another article with a whole load of crap being poured into it by the times of India and words being dismantled to suit the Indian flavor.



Ah, well, we can only take the horse to water.


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## Awesome

China has given support to Pak. What drama won't the Indian media pull to make a quick buck.


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## BanglaBhoot

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice flew to New Delhi Wednesday, ostensibly to deliver US condolences for the 173 people killed in the terrorist attacks that rocked Mumbai last week and express solidarity with the people of India.

This will likely be among the last major international initiatives launched by Rice, whose role in foisting the wars of aggression in Iraq and Afghanistan on the American people and implementing the US programs of torture and extraordinary rendition makes her an appropriate target for a war crimes indictment.

In the Middle Eastwhere she is infamous for hailing the 2006 Israeli war that killed thousands of Lebanese civilians as the "birth pangs" of peaceprotesters have frequently portrayed the American secretary of state as a vampire, her fangs dripping in blood.

This image serves as a fitting metaphor for her current foray into South Asia, where she is spearheading an attempt by Washington to exploit the blood of the innocent victims in Mumbai to promote the so-called "global war on terrorism" through which Washington pursues its geostrategic interests.

Speaking in New Delhi, Rice pointedly applied pressure on Pakistan, declaring that its government must "act with resolve and urgency and cooperate fully and transparently." For its part, Pakistan has condemned the terror attacks and denied any involvement by its state agencies.

Rice suggested a nonexistent link between Al Qaeda and the Mumbai attacks, declaring, "This is clearly the kind of terror in which Al Qaeda participates." She was later forced to backtrack on the remark, but still declared that those who attacked India's commercial capital and those blamed for the 2001 terror attacks in New York and Washington "move in the same circles."

If there is a connection between the Mumbai attacks and those of September 11 it is to be found in the American response. Seven months after the planes flew into the World Trade Center and Pentagon, Rice described those tragic events as "an enormous opportunity" to "create a new balance of power." Washington now sees a similar opportunity arising from the carnage in India to pursue its interests in South Asia.

While Rice was in New Delhi, the chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mike Mullen, was in Islamabad, exerting pressure on Pakistan's eight-month-old civilian government and on the country's military commanders.

Mullen echoed Rice's statements in New Delhi, calling on the government of President Asif Ali Zardari to "investigate aggressively any and all possible ties to groups based in Pakistan." The admiral went further, however, declaring that the Pakistani government had "to take more, and more concerted, action against militant extremists elsewhere in the country."

This last reference was clearly a demand that the Pakistani military intensify its operations in Waziristan, the Federally Administered Tribal Areas and other territories bordering Afghanistan, which have provided support to Afghan forces battling against the seven-year-old US occupation. The American military has carried out its own repeated attacks in the area, killing Pakistani civilians in missile strikes as well as commando assaults.

It is apparent that Washington sees in the Mumbai events an opportunity to bully Pakistan into more effectively doing its bidding in support of the war in Afghanistan, or, should that fail, to justify the escalation of its own intervention.

Significant in this regard was a column published in the Washington Post Tuesday by Robert Kagan, a leading proponent of the Iraq war with close ties to the Bush administration. Kagan called for forming an international force to invade Pakistan and "root out terrorist camps in Kashmir as well as in the tribal areas."

In arguing for such a military intervention, Kagan declared that it "would be useful for the United States, Europe and other nations to begin establishing the principle that Pakistan and other states that harbor terrorists should not take their sovereignty for granted. In the 21st century, sovereign rights need to be earned."

Such a move "to internationalize the response" to the Mumbai attack, Kagan argues, "would have the advantage of preventing a direct military confrontation between India and Pakistan."

Finally, he asserts that this kind of intervention is necessary because the US has the "obligation to demonstrate to the Indian people that we take attacks on them as seriously as we take attacks on ourselves."

Thus, the attempt to connect 9/11 with Mumbai and the full implications of this amalgam are spelled out quite clearly. As with the attacks of 2001, the terrorist acts in India are seen as the pretext for a new war of aggression and justification for riding roughshod over the sovereignty of a historically oppressed nation.

The military confrontation between India and Pakistan against which Kagan warns has been made all the more probable by US imperialism's interventions in the region.

For US strategic interests, such a war poses a serious threat in that Pakistan would likely withdraw troops it now has deployed on its western border with Afghanistan and move them east towards India, leaving the border region and the key lines of supply for US and NATO forces in Afghanistan unprotected.

For humanity, such a war poses the danger of a nuclear conflagration and the deaths of millions.

This crisis is unfolding barely six weeks before Barack Obama is to be sworn in as the next president of the United States. Here as elsewhere, there are indications that a "seamless transition" can be anticipated. Obama has repeatedly indicated that a top priority of his administration will be the escalation of the war in Afghanistan, along with its extension into Pakistan itself.

At his press conference last Monday introducing his national security team, Obama fully embraced the language of the "war on terrorism," indicating that he will use similar cynical justifications for US aggression as those employed under George W. Bush.

Washington exploits Mumbai attack to promote ?war on terror?


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## Munir

Rice is a neocon... Hardly understand that she is one one dimensional. Reason enough to be anti US foreign politics.

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## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> China has given support to Pak. What drama won't the Indian media pull to make a quick buck.



China has done a far better job of ensuring that Pakistani terrorists plotting in Xinjiang are taken care of. I'll admit that much.

They've done it without drawing any attention or alienating the Pakistani administration.


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## Anwar2

Halt FATA operations, that is enough to give Americans a run for their money. They will erase these notions of pressure tactics like a bad dream, and tell their Indian surrogates to take it easy.

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## IceCold

Flintlock said:


> Ah, well, we can only take the horse to water.



If thats what you call taking a horse towards water.


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## IceCold

Flintlock said:


> China has done a far better job of ensuring that *Pakistani terrorists plotting in Xinjiang are taken care of*. I'll admit that much.
> 
> They've done it without drawing any attention or alienating the Pakistani administration.



I think they are more worried of the Indian terrorists in Tibet.


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## Munir

If you are dumb an listen only to onesided pr from the US then no wonder you agree with attacks on Vietnam, Korea, Irac and Afghanistan. And so they keep on trying to get the same in case of North Korea, Iran and Pakistan... USA stands for democracy but it is just like Nazi Germany where Gobels manipulated the masses to kil millions of others... Then it was bad and now it is the normal policy called neocon... 

It reminds me of US logic... Nuking Japan was ok to avoid more deaths on their side. Isn't that the background for democratic allowed genocide? After the nukes they full destroyed their history and Japanese became western slaves...

It is not about hating western society or democracy but about abuse of that. Some use weapons to stop that. I prefer direct comment... The moment we use weapons we agree with their ideology of killing. It happened in the past when christian crusades mass killed entire cities... And now it is not much different except it is whole nations... Even the word crusades is returning so now and then. What a shame....

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## hasang20

omg please get new rifles lols.


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## Awesome

hasang20 said:


> omg please get new rifles lols.


I bet they don't even work anymore.

Just a show piece.

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## jeypore

China, India to hold joint anti-terror military training 


English_Xinhua 2008-12-04 19:10:01 Print 

BEIJING, Dec. 4 (Xinhua) -- The Chinese and Indian military forces will hold a joint anti-terror military training from Dec. 6to 14 in India, the Chinese Defense Ministry said on Thursday. 

The two armies will each dispatch an infantry company to take part in the joint training, code-named "Hand in Hand 2008", in south India's Belgaum District, said the ministry spokesman Huang Xueping. 

The group of 137 troops from the Chinese side arrived at the training camp in Belgaum on Thursday after eight hours' flight by two military transport planes, and a brief welcoming ceremony was held at the airport by the Indian side. 

The joint training is being carried out according to the Memorandum of Understanding for Exchanges and Cooperation in the Field of Defense signed in 2006 and is listed in the annual exchange plans for 2008 after discussion of the two sides, Huang said. 

The joint training was intended to enhance mutual understanding and trust and advance the development of relations between the Chinese and Indian armies, he said. 

"The time of the training was set previously and the joint training has no specified background and is not aimed at any third parties," he said. 

The nine-day joint anti-terror military training will include display of weapons and equipment, communication of tactics, joint training and a comprehensive drill. 

The two countries held their first joint anti-terrorism military training in Kunming, southwest China's Yunnan Province last year. 

China, India to hold joint anti-terror military training_English_Xinhua


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## devgupt

just do a google image search on Shoaib Akhtar and choose picture sizes as medium
On the second page or third page you would get the picture of Shoaib Akhtar wearing a red armband something similair to which one of terrorists in MUmbai was wearing.
Since I am a new member I am not allowed to post URL's Else I would given the link
try to open it from this heavensblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/js03akhtar_narrowweb__300x5030.jpg

I think it should be quite clear that wearing armbands is not exclusive to hindus and the first point of Mr Hamid falls flat on face

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## gpit

No wonder why those terrorists could roam through "Indian Lake" so freely...

The "Indian lake!" 




> The joint training was intended to enhance mutual understanding and trust and advance the development of relations between the Chinese and Indian armies, he said.



It helps, but without a full resolution of territorial dispute and Dalai Lama separatist issue in India, there will never be a true understanding/trust. In addition, anti-China propaganda within India can easily hedge off the effect of 100+ such exercises.


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## Silverfalcon

Well done Mr.Zaid Hamid 

Currently information warfare is going on, and you are doing your best to retaliate.

Truth has to be spoken of, its high time now. The media including CNN, BBC and GEO, have spread huge amounts of confusion amongst all Pakistanis and rest of the people in this world.

and youre doing your best to finish the confusion.


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## gpit

Flintlock said:


> China has done a far better job of ensuring that Pakistani terrorists plotting in Xinjiang are taken care of. I'll admit that much.
> 
> They've done it without drawing any attention or alienating the Pakistani administration.



Seems a revelation of a mixed and perhaps a complex emotion: admiration, jealousy, desperation, perhaps all?

Perhaps Indians have something to learn from: downsize your mouths, make neighbors your friends and get important things done with hands, not mouths.

Seriously.

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## Ali.009

Flintlock said:


> I hope the majority of Pakistanis don't believe these conspiracy theories....dear god....



Why do you always make deliberate attempts to provoke a flame war on these forums? None of the posts you ever made have anything credible or something which will advance a discussion. You just write a lousy line and then run away from the respective topic.

What theories are on the above talk show? Heck, the guy didnt even presented any theory, just commenting on the current scenario. Kindly change your attitude or ill ask someone to takecare of you.


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## Ali.009

devgupt said:


> just do a google image search on Shoaib Akhtar and choose picture sizes as medium
> On the second page or third page you would get the picture of Shoaib Akhtar wearing a red armband something similair to which one of terrorists in MUmbai was wearing.
> Since I am a new member I am not allowed to post URL's Else I would given the link
> try to open it from this heavensblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/js03akhtar_narrowweb__300x5030.jpg
> 
> I think it should be quite clear that wearing armbands is not exclusive to hindus and the first point of Mr Hamid falls flat on face




*Muslims do not wear the Hindu religious symbol. It would be like a Jew wearing the cross. Fanatics who procliam to be Muslims supposedly adhere to the fundamentalist principles. They would never wear Hindu symbols. Why is this person idnetified as a terrorist wearing a Hindu symbol of Kelva or Rakhi. *


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## daredevil

Ali.009 said:


> *Muslims do not wear the Hindu religious symbol. It would be like a Jew wearing the cross. Fanatics who procliam to be Muslims supposedly adhere to the fundamentalist principles. They would never wear Hindu symbols. Why is this person idnetified as a terrorist wearing a Hindu symbol of Kelva or Rakhi. *



For your perusal.


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## Silverfalcon

the band the terrorist was wearing was safron in colour.

and the one shoaib akhtar is wearing is red and is available in most of the shops


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## PeaceForAll

I have seen the video before and my sincere apologies for all the people who have seen it. Mr Hamid definitely has a vivid imagination. Given a chance he will link every possible force in the world is united against pak and is an enemy of Pak. 

I understand Indian media was doing something like this but retaliation does not have to be in this sort of way.

Also, I hope people do not take this as true. In psychology there is such a syndrome where u belive everyone else is out there pitted against you - I forget the name of that. Will edit the post and write its name once I remember it.

More than attacking India like Indians attacked us may be we should show more sanity and maturity which will make us stand apart -this is more like saying if u act stupid we will act stupid too!

I am sorry if my brothers find this as a wrong opinion. But I would expect a mature response as a retaliation. not like kids fighting!


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## BanglaBhoot

*India names Pakistani masterminds while evidence shows Mumbai plot dates back a year*

By SAM DOLNICK | Associated Press Writer
December 4, 2008 

NEW DELHI (AP)  A Pakistani militant group apparently used an Indian operative as far back as 2007 to scout targets for the elaborate plot against India's financial capital, authorities said Thursday, a blow to Indian officials who have blamed the deadly attacks entirely on Pakistani extremists.

As investigators sought to unravel the attack on Mumbai, stepping up questioning of the lone captured gunman, airports across India were put on high alert amid fresh warnings that terrorists planned to hijack an aircraft.

Also Thursday, police said there were signs that some of the six victims of the attack on a Jewish center may have been tortured. "The victims were strangled," said Rakesh Maria, a senior Mumbai police official. "There were injuries noticed on the bodies that were not from firing."

Members of an Israeli rescue group which had a team in Mumbai said it was impossible to tell if the bodies had been abused, however, because no autopsies were conducted in accordance with Jewish tradition.

The surviving gunman, Ajmal Amir Kasab, 21, told interrogators he had been sent by the banned Pakistani militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba and identified two of the plot's masterminds, according to two Indian government officials familiar with the inquiry.

Kasab told police that one of them, Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, Lashkar's operations chief, recruited him for the attack, and the assailants called another senior leader, Yusuf Muzammil, on a satellite phone after hijacking an Indian vessel en route to Mumbai.

The information sent investigators back to another reputed Lashkar operative, Faheem Ansari, who they hope could be key in pulling together different strands of the investigation.

Ansari, an Indian national, was arrested in February in north India carrying hand-drawn sketches of hotels, the train terminal and other sites that were later attacked in Mumbai, said Amitabh Yash, director of the Special Task Force of the Uttar Pradesh police.

During his interrogation, Ansari also named Muzammil as his handler in Pakistan, adding that he trained in a Lashkar camp in Muzaffarabad  the same area where Kasab said he was trained, a senior police officer involved in the investigation said.

In Pakistan, Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik told reporters he had no information on Lakhvi or Muzammil but that authorities would check.

Ansari "told us about a planned Lashkar attack on Bombay, on southern Bombay," said Yash, referring to Mumbai by its previous name. "He gave us eight or nine specific locations where the attack would be carried out," he said, adding that Ansari had detailed sketches of the places and escape routes from the sites.

Ansari said he carried out the reconnaissance in the fall of 2007, which also included the U.S. consulate, the Bombay stock exchange and other Mumbai sites that were not attacked.

Ansari is now in Indian custody, according to Yash. It was unclear if he was being questioned again, but Maria said they were working to determine if Ansari played a role in how the attackers "got such intricate knowledge of the sites."

Indian authorities have faced a torrent of criticism about missed warnings and botched intelligence, and revelations that Ansari disclosed details of the Mumbai plot 10 months ago will be added to the list. Linking an Indian national to the plot also undermines India's assertion that Pakistan is solely responsible.

The attacks have heightened tensions between the contentious neighbors. They have fought three wars since independence from Britain in 1947 and both have nuclear weapons.

Yash said during extensive interrogations Ansari confessed to scouting Mumbai, arranging a safe-house there for Lashkar militants and provided details on his involvement in the group. "We got everything out of him, whatever he knew," he said.

Ansari linked up with Lashkar while working at a printing press in Dubai. He was taken by sea to Pakistan to the Lashkar camp in Muzaffarabad and received a false Pakistani passport and citizenship papers, which police recovered when he was arrested.

In 2007, Ansari said, he traveled to Katmandu, Nepal, and then crossed back into India and settled in Mumbai, where he conducted reconnaissance for a future attack, Yash said.

He was arrested Feb. 10 in the northern city of Rampur after suspected Muslim militants attacked a police camp, killing eight constables. He said he was there to collect weapons to bring to Mumbai for a future attack.

Yash said Ansari's arrest did not derail Lashkar's plans for an attack. "When they found that their mole in Bombay had been caught...they carried out the operations in a different way," he said.

Meanwhile, police officers said they were trying to get as much detail as possible from Kasab.

"A terrorist of this sort is never cooperative. We have to extract information," said Deven Bharti, the head of the Mumbai crime branch.

Indian police are known to use interrogation methods that would be regarded as torture in the West, including questioning suspects drugged with "truth serum."

Bharti provided no details on interrogation techniques, but said "truth serum" would probably be used next week. He did not specify what drug would be used.

During questioning, details of Kasab's recruitment by Lashkar began to emerge, said police, describing him as fourth grade dropout from an impoverished village who was gravitating to a life of crime.

"Lashkar recruited him, preying on a combination of his religious sentiments and his poverty," said Maria.

The revelations came as Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice met with leaders in Islamabad after visiting India's capital  part of a U.S. effort to pressure Pakistan to share more intelligence and pursue terrorist cells believed to be rooted in the country.

Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari promised Rice his country would take "strong action" against any elements in Pakistan involved in the siege.

On Thursday, the U.S. Treasury Department designated as terrorists four individuals who hold leadership positions in Lashkar, including Lakhvi, and ordered any of their U.S. assets to be frozen. Also named were Muhammad Saeed, the group's leader; Haji Muhammad Ashraf, its chief of finance; and Mahmoud Mohammad Ahmed Bahaziq, a financier with the group.

Meanwhile, India put its airports on alert following threats of possible airborne attacks. Security forces swarmed New Delhi's international airport early Friday after the sound of gunfire was heard, police said, but no one was injured or killed. Police said it was not a terrorist incident.

The warning received by the airports "spoke of possibility of aircraft being hijacked by terrorists," India's air force chief, Fali Homi Major, told reporters Thursday.

The alert focused on three major airports  New Delhi, Bangalore and Chennai  but security was stepped up across India.

Several extra layers of security were set up and some passengers' bags were scanned for explosives.

"Passengers have been asked to pass through six-stage security checks," said Brij Lal, a senior police official organizing security at the airport in the northern city of Lucknow.

Nirmala Sharma, a passenger who flew from New Delhi to Lucknow, said her bags were checked a half dozen times and she went through a metal detector three times. "Sometimes it seemed tedious, but it seems to be the need of the hour," she said.

Mumbai death toll stands at 172 -- chicagotribune.com


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## BanglaBhoot

*A Mumbai Connection?*

An Islamic stronghold in Pakistan has come under increased scrutiny after the terror attacks in India.

There are no signs that point the way to Markaz-e-Taiba except for the sudden appearance of closely situated gas stations, and even a housing settlement, with conspicuously Quranic names. But everyone in this area of Pakistan seems to know where this alleged stronghold of the outlawed militant group Lashkar-e- Taiba is located. Since India's claims of the organization's involvement in the Mumbai attacks, it has been speculated that this "Center of the Pious" could be a potential target of highly unlikely but still-feared Indian airstrikes within Pakistan proper. In a rare gesture, the center opened its doors to journalists on Thursday to counter what it said was Indian propaganda.

Markaz-e-Taiba is a 150-acre, dust-dimmed oasis in the middle of forgotten villages in Muridke, just outside Lahore. The 14-year-old gated complex with security cameras and manned by watchful but unarmed volunteers&#8212;at least on the day of the press tour&#8212;was introduced to journalists as a health and educational facility. The visitors were pointedly shepherded through the school's science laboratories and shown classrooms with young boys in Western-style uniforms and girls in traditional shalwar-kameez.

"We have 3,000 boys and girls here as young as five and as old as 17," said Yahya Mujahid, spokesman for Jamat-ud-Dawah, which now runs the center. Most of the students are from surrounding villages and pay a modest annual tuition. "There is no fear here, and little else that many people claim." Addressing concerns about the facility, Mujahid denied any history or existence of "martial training which India pipes about all the time" and said that the school curriculum complies with government policy. Allegations to the contrary were, he said, "a miracle of self-delusion."

Jamat-ud-Dawah, which roughly means "enter into the fold of Islam," is fashioned as an Islamic charity and is widely believed to be an alias for the banned group Lashkar-e-Taiba. The U.S. State Department says Lashkar-e-Taiba is "one of the three largest and best trained groups fighting in Kashmir against India" and has links with Al Qaeda. It was outlawed in January 2002 following the attack on India's parliament which led to a military standoff between both countries.

Jamat-ud-Dawah itself was designated a terrorist organization by the United States in 2006, but this has not impeded its expansive operations in Pakistan. The organization has a nationwide footprint and runs numerous medical clinics, schools, housing projects and an ambulance service. It won some public acclaim for its work alongside the Pakistan Army in the aftermath of the 2005 earthquake in Pakistan-administered Kashmir, and says it has built 5,000 homes there. The organization says its teams were in Bam, Iran, to help with relief efforts following the 2003 earthquake and that it has sent aid to Indonesia, Sri Lanka and Maldives following natural disasters there. Jamat-ud-Dawah claims to have spent at least $8.74 million since 2003 on various charitable initiatives. It says its funding is raised exclusively from the Pakistani public.

Both organizations also have the fiery, former university professor Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, 62, in common as their leader&#8212;although his spokesman says Saeed's links with Lashkar were severed in 2001. Saeed was under "house arrest" for most of 2002. In Pakistan, this is often a euphemism for being in the protective custody of intelligence agencies. Following last week's terror siege in Mumbai, India has reportedly demanded that Pakistan hand over Saeed along with 19 others for questioning. Pakistan contends that India has demanded the handover of only three suspected terrorists and that Saeed is not among them. And in any event, Pakistan says it will not comply without evidence.

"It is upsetting," said spokesman Mujahid, speaking in the shade of the primary-school entrance, "to be doubted and misrepresented when all we have done and all we want to do is help our fellow man."

Acknowledging that tempers seem to be cooling down on both sides of the border and that the worst may be over, Pakistan's President Asif Ali Zardari left Thursday on a two-day official visit to Turkey.

Islamic Stronghold in Pakistan Linked to Mumbai | Newsweek International | Newsweek.com


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## Flintlock

gpit said:


> Seems a revelation of a mixed and perhaps a complex emotion: admiration, jealousy, desperation, perhaps all?
> 
> Perhaps Indians have something to learn from: downsize your mouths, make neighbors your friends and get important things done with hands, not mouths.
> 
> Seriously.



Yes Gpit, I am extremely jealous how China and Japan are such good friends, or how China and Taiwan are best buddies.

No need to get cocky - I know too much about the sad, violent history of your country to fall for that.

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## Raquib

How Deep is Pakistani Involvement in the Mumbai Attack?
By ISHAAN THAROOR / MUMBAI Ishaan Tharoor / Mumbai  Thu Dec 4, 5:35 pm ET

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice landed in Islamabad on Thursday walking on a diplomatic tight-rope. She had just been through India and knew that New Delhi wanted Washington's help in getting Pakistan to crack down on groups implicated in last week's terror attack on Mumbai. But she also knew that such a crackdown would be unpopular in Pakistan and could very well destabilize its weak civilian government. How then to mollify India's saber-rattling public while getting Pakistan's officials to act against their own interest? The two nuclear-powered nations of the subcontinent have been to war against each other three times, and tempers are now rising on both sides of the border.


The moment has been made all the more delicate by the intricacies - and mysteries - of the investigation of the Mumbai massacre. Meeting the press in Islamabad, Rice shied away from pointing a finger at Pakistan, saying only that Pakistan had a "special responsibility" in dealing with the aftermath of the attacks. This was despite the claims of an anonymous American defense official in the New York Times linking the Islamist militant group, Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT), which allegedly trained the Mumbai attackers, to ex-officers in the Pakistan's intelligence service. Indian officials believe that the LeT masterminded these attacks, as well as previous ones on the country's Parliament building in 2001 - grounds, some suggest, for targeted strikes against the group's base camps within Pakistan. (See pictures of Mumbai's days of terror.)


Rice has urged Pakistan's President Asif Zardari and his government to act "with resolve and a real sense of transparency" in dealing with the terrorist groups Pakistan harbors. Zardari, for his part, denied having received any evidence of Pakistani involvement. But the civilian government in Islamabad, like almost all others before it, wields little real power in a state that has always been dominated by the military. "Zardari's government was born with its hands tied," says B. Raman, a noted Indian commentator and columnist.


Indian investigators say they can pin the attacks on Pakistan for a number of reasons: the GPS coordinates of the fishing boat the terrorists used to land in Mumbai lead back to the Pakistani city of Karachi; e-mails as well as a phone call claiming responsibility for the attack trace back to Lahore, also in Pakistan, where the LeT has its civilian front.


Most important, though, is the testimony of the sole surviving attacker, Ajmal Amir Kasab, 21, who allegedly revealed his Pakistani identity to police interrogators after being captured. Kasab, who gunned down dozens at Chhatrapati Shviaji Terminus on Nov. 26, is being kept in an unknown location in the state of Maharashtra, where Mumbai is the capital. He has not been granted access to a lawyer yet, but will be charged in due course, say state government sources. According to the police, Kasab left his impoverished parents in Faridkot, Pakistan, and joined up with the LeT. The group allegedly trained him in weapons and drafted him into its marine detachment, supposedly organized to infiltrate India by sea. According to the transcript of his statement, supplied by the police, Kasab said: "We were told that our big brother India is so rich and we are dying of poverty and hunger." His family, Kasab claims, was promised some $4,000 were his operation - essentially, a coordinated suicide strike - a success.


As of now, it has been impossible to verify the police account of Kasab's confession independently; and that has been one of the reasons why Pakistan has yet to act on the incendiary implications. The details are key and they seem to fluctuate depending on who is narrating the tale. Indian media have even give the surviving attacker conflicting last names. Some say it is Iman, not Kasab. "There are many doubts that people will have," says Bhushan Gagrani, Maharashtra government spokesman. "But I don't see a reason not to believe the police."


Not everyone in India is comforted by simply hounding culprits over the border in Pakistan. Some worry about a deeper and closer conspiracy. Media reports on Thursday had the attackers carrying at least three SIM cards purchased on the Indian side of the border with Bangladesh, pointing to some local collusion, a possibility the police had tried to rule out when they first publicized Kasab's testimony. Lapses in policing since the attacks have infuriated the public. Newspapers ran stories this past week about how, even after the attacks, truckers bringing contraband into the city were allegedly able to bribe cops at checkpoints for less than $1. A full week after the attackers stomped around the ticket booths of the train station, inspectors found bags of RDX explosives left over from the assault - they had been lying among discarded parcels. "It is an unfortunate incident," says Gagrani. "Next time, we will survey it better." with reporting by Hussain Zaidi/Mumbai 


View this article on Time.com

How Deep is Pakistani Involvement in the Mumbai Attack? - Yahoo! News


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## kvLin

what the hell is this, were those terriorist killing people with bricks and rocks?


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## Kharian_Beast

Asim Aquil said:


> I bet they don't even work anymore.
> 
> Just a show piece.



These were the same rifles used in the filming for Planet of the Apes.

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## devgupt

Silverfalcon said:


> the band the terrorist was wearing was safron in colour.
> 
> and the one shoaib akhtar is wearing is red and is available in most of the shops



my dear friend an armband is a fashion accesory (as you are yourself are admitting) and anyone can wear it and of any color. It is ridiculous to associate it with any religion

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## devgupt

Thanks A lot for posting. Hope it makes my point clear


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## garibnawaz

kvLin said:


> what the hell is this, were those terriorist killing people with bricks and rocks?



They r home guards. Part of Civil Defence and not supposed to fight terrorists. 

They are supposed to control people (rioters) who come with bricks and rocks.

Hope you understand.


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## garibnawaz

Kharian_Beast said:


> These were the same rifles used in the filming for Planet of the Apes.



Look at the bright side. A RPF Jawan single handedly faught with 2 of the militiants at CST which foiled the original plan to hold CST with hostages.

Both Kasav and his friend ran away once Constable Yadav counter fired with his WW era .303 against the armed militants with AK-47/56.

Sometimes its not guns its courage.


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## Super Falcon

i heared in geo that indian american commision in america will put pressure on t congress leaders of their area and ask them for stopping pakistani aid if they wont stop terrorist why our president is lack luster for giving answers to india and stop going for america pakistan has enough power to run it self without any foreign aid maslla ya ha ka humara leaders ko haram khori ki ada pad gaye ha we need to get out of american friendship which gave us a lot aq lot of probleums even they r our friends but they r supporting india


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## Kharian_Beast

garibnawaz said:


> Look at the bright side. A RPF Jawan single handedly faught with 2 of the militiants at CST which foiled the original plan to hold CST with hostages.
> 
> Both Kasav and his friend ran away once Constable Yadav counter fired with his WW era .303 against the armed militants with AK-47/56.
> 
> Sometimes its not guns its courage.



..Or overwhelming manpower. You guys lost quite a lot of honorable servicemen due to poor equipment, and you're defending the old crusty rifles? Kasav(b) and his friend should have been dead long before constables armed with muskets had to subdue these dimwits.


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## garibnawaz

Kharian_Beast said:


> ..Or overwhelming manpower. You guys lost quite a lot of honorable servicemen due to poor equipment, and you're defending the old crusty rifles? Kasav(b) and his friend should have been dead long before constables armed with muskets had to subdue these dimwits.



Nobody is doubting or debating on the issue.


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## T-Rex

As things are anything can happen, the fragile peace can continue or a war can break out. There are simply too many factors that are shaping or influencing the events. For Pakistan the best course of action will be to hope for the peace and prepare for a war.


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## fatman17

*Indian media under fire for Mumbai attacks coverage*

Fri Dec 5, 2008 

By Rina Chandran

MUMBAI (Reuters) - Round-the-clock news coverage of the Mumbai attacks has made Indians nervous but analysts said on Friday it was also stoking anti-Pakistan public opinion and risks shaping policy before elections due by May.

Psychiatrists in India's financial hub are reporting increased cases of panic attacks and insomnia after last week's attacks, telecast live into millions of homes, by Islamist militants who killed 171 people.

*"There was no sense of balance or reasoning. The coverage was so jingoistic and nationalistic, they've pushed public opinion on Pakistan to a point of no return," said Atul Phadnis, chief executive of consultancy Media e2e.*

*In the days since the attacks, the Indian flag is often used by broadcasters as a visual backdrop, with viewers' text messages expressing anger at politicians or Pakistan ticking across the bottom of screens.*

Pakistan has condemned the attacks and denied any state involvement, as well as vowing to help the Indian probe.

A big protest in Mumbai on Wednesday, organised by text messages and on Internet social network Facebook and radio, was proof of growing media influence on opinion, said B. Manjula, chair of the Centre for Media and Cultural Studies at the Tata Institute of Social Sciences.

"Everyone is being led to believe that by lighting a candle or carrying a poster they've done their part as a dutiful citizen without questioning whose opinion they are pandering to ... their actions only make for great visuals for TV," she said.

There are more than 60 English and regional-language news channels fighting for the attention of 80 million Indian homes.

Most were launched in the last three years when a booming economy helped drive advertising revenues. But the fierce competition has also meant that less experienced journalists have been thrust into the field, Manjula said.

*"This is a complex issue with various dimensions to it. Simply reducing it to 'politicians are villains' and 'Pakistan is the enemy' without discourse or debate is a deep failing of the media, but it does influence public opinion," said Manjula.*

*Across the border, the Pakistani media decried what it saw as the undue haste with which India blamed Pakistan for the assault, but is not urging the government to take a particular line.*

*The liberal Daily Times newspaper said in an editorial on Friday the distrust and hostility engendered by "black-and-white" media opinion on both sides would block proper communication.*

*The News, Pakistan's biggest English-language newspaper, said in an editorial on Thursday an outbreak of jingoism in Indian media was being matched by only a slightly less severe one in Pakistan.*

"We need the media to tread a cautious line, support our government in its efforts to take the heat out of the situation and not to inflame our already tinder-box population," it said.

(Additional reporting by Robert Birsel in ISLAMABAD)


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## TOPGUN

Wat a shame how can there be peace with this kind of thoughts from the Indians i understand the anger and i was upset at the same time sad for the lost lives but HATERED is a very serious word and action there will be no peace until people start to move forward and leave hatered behind i was watching the whole thing via indian channels since the first day all this began and i was upset to see the reaction from the people there without any proof the hatered is unreal STOP the hate STOP the blood shed for GOD's sake and lets live in peace.


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## was

china should do somethingh about the terrorists in indian kashmir. wich sometimes call themselves INDIAN ARMY


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## U-571

daredevil said:


> For your perusal.



this shows, how much "intelligent" and "smart" u r!!

come on, this is shoab akhter, the most controversial man in the sub continent, hes running lose in all the things!!!, he seeks bollywood more than his carrer!!, he likes indian night clubs, and hangs around with indian girls, two indian girls at a tym, in his arms.


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## gpit

Flintlock said:


> Yes Gpit, I am extremely jealous how China and Japan are such good friends, or how China and Taiwan are best buddies.
> 
> No need to get cocky - I know too much about the sad, violent history of your country to fall for that.



 Now it's my turn to admire you.

China has settled all land disputes with its neighbors except India. India settles no land dispute with any of its neighbors.

There are still territorial disputes between China and its neighbors, but the progress is evident, excluding India. That's how things are moving in right direction for China.

The Chinese do have issues with the Japanese in their denial of their historical atrocities. Yet, many Chinese also believe they have many to learn from Japan. As far as mainland and taiwan is concerned, it won't leave you un-disappointed if you know the stories.

Yes, China had violence in its history. How admirable that you compare it with India's violent present!


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## daredevil

U-571 said:


> this shows, how much "intelligent" and "smart" u r!!
> 
> come on, this is shoab akhter, the most controversial man in the sub continent, hes running lose in all the things!!!, he seeks bollywood more than his carrer!!, he likes indian night clubs, and hangs around with indian girls, two indian girls at a tym, under his shoulders.



So what?. He is a Muslim.


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## Flintlock

> Yes, China had violence in its history. How admirable that you compare it with India's violent present!



Oh so China is peaceful now, is it? 

Forgotten Tibet already? 

I'm reading about riots against the police and the administration almost every other day in China - and that's just the stuff that gets reported. 

And lets not mention the violence perpetrated by the State. 

P.S. Change that American flag to the red one.

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## Imran Khan

*India has provided list of three, says Malik*



By Syed Irfan Raza

ISLAMABAD, Dec 4: The government confirmed on Thursday that India had given a list of three persons allegedly involved in the Mumbai carnage.

&#8220;India has given us three names and demanded stern action against them,&#8221; the adviser to the prime minister on interior, Rehman Malik, told a press conference.

Asked if the government was contemplating any action on the list of the 20 accused reportedly handed over by India through Pakistan&#8217;s ambassador in New Delhi, the adviser said there was no such list. &#8220;Only three names have been given. They are Indian nationals Dawood Ibrahim and Tiger Memon, and a Pakistani, Maulana Masood Azhar.&#8221;

Mr Malik said that Dawood Ibrahim and Tiger Memon were not in Pakistan, while the government could not take any action against Maulana Masood Azhar unless evidence was provided by India against him.

In response to a question about reports that the ISI chief would send his representatives to India, the adviser said: &#8220;I have seen the letter sent by India. It does not mention any Pakistani official required to visit India for information-sharing,&#8221; he said.

&#8220;India has not asked Pakistan in writing for sending the ISI chief to India. In the letter the Indian government has only asked us to cooperate and share information,&#8221; the adviser said.

In reply to a question about fears of an air strike by Delhi on the headquarters of Lashkar-i-Taiba, the adviser said there was no possibility of such attacks. &#8220;We do not expect such action from India as the two countries are trying their level best to bring normalcy in their relations,&#8221; he said.

On the other hand, the Indian government has accused the ISI of involvement in the Mumbai attacks, claiming that terrorists were from Pakistan.

However, Pakistan has rejected India&#8217;s claim, saying it had no direct or indirect link with the incident. &#8220;Non-state actors&#8221; could have been involved in the attacks, it has contended all along.

Mr Malik denied that Pakistan had handed over a list of suspects to India for extradition. &#8220;I have no knowledge of any list handed over to India for extradition.&#8221;

He condemned the Mumbai carnage, terming it a conspiracy by terrorists to cause a war-like situation.

&#8220;I praise the leadership of the two counties for foiling the nefarious designs of terrorists.&#8221;

The adviser assured India of full support in investigating the tragedy and said the culprits must be brought to justice.


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## Vinod2070

May be the one on the terrorist's hands had faded in color over a period.

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## SMIQBAL

deleted message


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## daredevil

SMIQBAL said:


> 10 Terrorist VS 1200 Forcemen  Joke of the Century.
> 
> 10 Terrorist VS 1200 Forcemen - JOKE OF THE CENTURY:
> Theory of Terrorism:
> Procurement of Terrorists - Violence/Terror - Terror Theatre - Motive dissemination - Impact on public at large. What happened in Mumbai, please see: - 9 incidents at nine different places require nine groups of at least 10/12 trained terrorists. Means there should have been 90 to 100 boys hired from Hindu Militant Org. and Hindu under world force. One group operates for one incident.After execution the group loose its mental visions and start committing blunders.Siege of Hotel Taj and Oberae require atleast 15/20 persons. Jews Narimanhouse seige, 100 days grocerries with liquor purchased by residents. six story building in thickly populated area.Three Terror Theatres for 60 hours Taj, Obeare and Narimahouse.Only in three incidents terrorist took hostage, in other
> six incidents, escape was successful and they have holed up in Mumbai means gone back to their mother organizations/under world. These should be 50 to 60 persons with vehicles, communication apparatus.The use of merchant ship and hijacking of fishing vessel by intruders is not acceptable to common sense. The killing of ATS DIG Hemant Karkare with two Additional police commissioners prove the involvement of Indian State Actors and blame game is as usual as it was in case of Samjhota Express and Mealegaon attacks.The terrorists were not muslims. If they could be muslims they were in a position to allow muslims guest in Hotel to go as they allowed foreigners so 95 muslims were killed in violence. Indian story is a bolly wood production.



Are you for real or are you a bot?. I have seen you posting same thing in at least 5 different threads.


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## ARSENAL6

Flintlock said:


> *China quizzes Pakistan over Mumbai attack*
> 2 Dec 2008, 1700 hrs IST, Saibal Dasgupta, TNN
> 
> BEIJING: Security agencies in China are quizzing their Pakistani counterparts about possible links between the attack in Mumbai and terrorist
> organisations based in Pakistan, informed sources said.*
> 
> Chinese agencies have already taken measures to seal off possible loopholes in the country's borders with India, Pakistan and Afghanistan to ensure that no fugitives sneak in.* Beijing is particularly worried that Pakistan based terrorists might seek refuge Xinjiang, the terrorism hit province bordering Pakistan.
> *
> "We are ready to cooperate with India and Pakistan to fight terrorists groups that are active in the region," Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao told TOI. "*We face the danger of terrorists' attacks from supporters of the East Turkmenistan movement. So, we are very concerned," he said.
> 
> China, which is a close ally of Pakistan, is capable of persuading leaders in Islamabad to part with critical intelligence and even hand over terrorists to India. But Beijing might prefer to deal with Pakistani leaders on this score to safeguard itself from terrorism spilling across the border to its own territory.
> *
> Liu, the foreign ministry spokesman, said China was ready to join hands with India to track down terrorists groups that may have been involved in the attack in Mumbai on November 26.* The event demonstrated that India, Pakistan and Afghanistan continue to be serious targets of terrorists. Chinese security agencies were closely studying the incident to examine the role of terrorists in the region, he said.
> *
> "We have an arrangement with Pakistan on working jointly to combat terrorism," Liu said and added that the arrangement is working well.*
> 
> But an anti-terrorism expert of the Chinese government feels that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was pointing a finger at Pakistan to "cover up" what he described as the "flaws and shortcomings" of the Indian government. The terrorists in Mumbai attack may have come from within India's border, Li Wei, director of anti-terrorist studies of China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations told the official media.
> 
> *China's public security bureau recently indicated that most of the ultras active in the country's Xinjiang region have been trained and backed by Pakistan based terrorist organisations.* Beijing is worried that the close linkages between different terrorists groups and possible links with the al-Qaida could escalate the already volatile law and order situation on the China-Pakistan border, sources said.
> 
> Li, who works for the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations, said that the Mumbai attack will have profound influence on other nations in Asia. It is also a signal that existing measures on issues like early warning system and risk evaluation are not sufficient to be prepared for such brazen attacks, he said.
> 
> The remarks from the Chinese foreign ministry comes in the wake of reports that the Pakistani military brass has threatened to pull out troops from the Afghanistan border and thus bring an end to the US-led war on terror if there is any military action from the Indian side over the Mumbai attack.
> 
> Pakistan has for long managed to keep both US and China on tenterhooks by using threats of easing its military pressure on the Afghanistan border and weakening its surveillance of Afghanistan based terrorists groups including Al Qaida activists, informed sources said.
> 
> China quizzes Pakistan over Mumbai attack-China-World-The Times of India



*China's public security bureau recently indicated that most of the ultras active in the country's Xinjiang region have been trained and backed by Pakistan based terrorist organisations.* ????????!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

*WTF !?!?!?!?!?!?!?*

 nuff said 

The amount this guy rants about Islamaphobic and anti-pakistan veiws in all the threads in this forum, just shows how much is the Hindu guilt being the mastermind of the Mumbi terror attacks. You just keep it up man


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## metalfalcon

*There is no doubt about that, India media didn't behaved professionally, they Blamed Pakistan, ISI and Pakistan navy without proper information from Indian officials and they are Playing their role in the current Elections as Bollywood stars and Indian Cricketers are coming on Media and are giving interviews in which they are asking for the resignation of many Ministers of Congress so they are helping BJP isn't it ?*


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## Omar1984

"As you can see for yourselves, this is not a training facility for terrorists," says Abdullah Muntazir. 

Mr Muntazir is a spokesman for the Jamaat-ud-Dawa organisation, an Islamic charity. 

The organisation has been labelled a political front for the militant organization, Lashkar-e-Taiba (Army of the Pure). 

The Lashkar has been fighting the Indian armed forces in the disputed territory of Kashmir since 1990 and has been accused of hitting numerous Indian targets outside Kashmir - including last week's attacks in Mumbai in which 188 people died. 

It has strongly denied being responsible for the Mumbai violence and most other incidents outside of Indian-administered Kashmir for which it has been accused. 

Military strikes 

But the Lashkar is nevertheless on the list of banned terrorist groups compiled by the US state department. 

Mr Muntazir was speaking to the media at the Markaz-e-Taiba (Centre of the Pure) compound set up by Jamaat-ud-Dawa in Pakistan's Punjab province. 









We have nothing to hide here 

Abdullah Muntazir

The compound is commonly referred to as the main headquarters of the Jamaat-ud-Dawa. 

It has also been described by Indian - and sometimes Pakistani - media as a training facility for Lashkar militants. 

This perception has hardened since the attacks in Mumbai, with some Indian commentators talking about launching military strikes on the compound. 

Although the BBC saw no militant activity in the camp, Lashkar is known to operate militant camps in areas of Pakistan-administered Kashmir. 

To try to dispel perceptions, Jamaat-ud-Dawa hosted an open house for local and foreign journalists, including the BBC, on Thursday. 

The centre is located outside the town of Muridke, about 40km (25 miles) from the eastern city of Lahore in central Punjab. 

A small dusty lane leads off the main Grand Trunk Road through a small settlement of farmers and labourers to the gates of the compound. 

Basic curriculum 

Inside its 75-acre grounds are educational and residential facilities. 

There is a secondary school for girls, a high school for boys and two madrassas, or religious schools, one each for girls and boys and hostels for the students. 






The compound has been labelled as a training facility for militants 

We were taken on a tour of the entire complex by Mr Muntazir and his team. 

"We have classes here until Intermediate (Pakistan equivalent of high school/'A' Levels)," says Rashid Minhas, principal of science. 

"The subjects include English and the sciences. We have fully furnished labs here as well as facilities that you would find in any good school in Pakistan. 

"The basic curriculum is the same as that taught all over Pakistan, with an added focus on Islam." 

According to Mr Minhas, there are 530 boys and 345 girls in the school. 

School is in session as we pass through the classrooms. 

In the physics lab, a group of students are putting together a circuit which transfers electricity to a light bulb. 

As the bulb flashes red, the students exchange smiles of accomplishment. The same scene could be replicated across countless other schools in Pakistan. 

School setting 

One student, Zohaib Naveed, says he is in class eight and comes from a nearby town. 

He hopes to be an engineer when he grows up. 



Jamaat-ud-Dawa operates various social relief operations 

When asked by one of the journalists who his leader is, he says simply "Quaid-e-Azam". He is referring to Mohammad Ali Jinnah, founder of Pakistan. 

In an adjoining class, students are conducting an experiment, using hydrochloric acid to produce a gas. 

They smile and shyly pose for the camera, just like any other normal children in a school setting. 

The difference is, because of the allegations levelled against Jamaat-ud-Dawa, their activities could well be deemed as "militant training". 

But if that really is the case, the atmosphere in the school and the entire complex is remarkably open and easy. 

Nearby is a newly-constructed 60-bed hospital which treats dozens of people daily. 

The centre of the compound is dominated by a huge mosque, surrounded by the educational facilities, the residential complex and a small shopping centre 

Men and women move about freely and there is no evidence of any militants or training facilities. 

At the barrier at the main gate of the complex the guards were carrying no arms. 

The entire complex, in fact, closely represents a university campus. 

It appears to be nowhere near the armed training camp described in many - possibly speculative - stories in the international media. 

"We have nothing to hide here," says Abdullah Muntazir. 

"You can see with your own eyes that the focus is on education and welfare activities. We have nothing to do with Lashkar-e-Taiba. 

"We have always followed the laws and regulations of Pakistan, and we believe the government will protect us in the face of these false accusations." 

You can watch the video of the school's tour at BBC NEWS | South Asia | Peaceful school or 'terror' base?


----------



## T-Rex

joey said:


> ROTFLMAO which group oh puhlease why isnt it mentioned there the NAME OF THE GROUP? uh oh fits the bill? yes for the conspiracy theory believers onlee
> 
> India acts as per its nations interest, not for communists interest or others, because it is against the constitution of India.



Perhaps the group consists of individuals that have no intention to form a formal organization, has that ever crossed your mind ? When people said that Iraq was invaded not for WMD but for its natural resources people like you sang the song "conspiracy theory", now may I ask where are those Iraqi WMD for which one sovereign state was invaded ? Where are the black-boxes of all the aircraft that took part in 9/11 ? What was the American air-force doing, why didn't they intercept the planes ? No answer but singing the "conspiracy theory". Give it up instead of making wicked remarks.


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## T-Rex

Always Neutral said:


> Dear Munshi,
> 
> They are going ballastic because throught the article no names of the organisation, intellectuals or the spokesperson is mentioned. Also Kashmir Times writing something happening in Bombay oops sorry Mumbai seems far fetched.
> 
> My observations thats all.
> 
> Regards



So, New York Times should not write about something that's happening in India because India is far away from New York. That tells the level of your intelligence.


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## BanglaBhoot

Wow!!! I thought this thread had died on me. Who brought it back to life. LOL ......


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## T-Rex

Always Neutral said:


> Is this a post or a propaganda leaflet. The majority of muslims love Europe and I promise if you go to Spain or UK you will see the best Doctors come from Pakistan, India, Philipines, Bangladesh and Srilanka. Many of them are muslims. None of them till date have told me that they came here because they were being prosecuted but they just wanted the challenge and opportunity to practise at a global level. The bottom line is that there is no conspiracy to eliminate muslims in Spain or that matter of fact in Europe and I doubt India too as its got more muslims in world other than Indoneasia if I am not wrong.
> 
> Some muslims have definately got the wrong end of the stick in India (discrimination wise) but please name me any country of the world including developed economies like USA where a minority community has not been discriminated ? Red Indians in USA ?
> 
> Regards




No this is not a propaganda, a terrorist and fundamentalist organization like BJP did form government in India and it is about to form government again, if my speculation is correct. On the other hand, Islamic groups in Muslim countries that oppose the so-called great Indian and anglo-American designs are all terrorists, that is what we call the real picture of propaganda.


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## M_Saint

> India acts as per its nations interest, not for communists interest or others, because it is against the constitution of India.


Perhaps Indians and their current 'Buddies of convenience' should circumspect in seeking interest and stop having 'Nightmares of conquering world', so they don't have to find the members of 'Open ended boggy' or link dead innocents with them by the terms of 'Guilt in association' throughout the world to hide wickedness of unprecedented magnitude in human history.


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## devgupt

U-571 said:


> this shows, how much "intelligent" and "smart" u r!!
> 
> come on, this is shoab akhter, the most controversial man in the sub continent, hes running lose in all the things!!!, he seeks bollywood more than his carrer!!, he likes indian night clubs, and hangs around with indian girls, *two indian girls at a tym*, in his arms.



oh so you seem to be saying he is more Indian than Pakistani?

we are discussing a serious issue of terrorist's identity and you are trivialising the whole isue by bringing up night clubs and girls.on second thoughts even trivialise is the wrong I used here. It seems you are not interested in serious discussion but more intent on making below the belt attacks and distasteful remarks. It really shows how much intelligent you are.

a wrist band is a wristband and nothing more . I would repeat what I said earlier -A wristband is not the necessary and suffcient condition to identify a hindu


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## TruthSeeker

^^^^ What?? Sarcastic one-liners in response to drivel!!! Never!!!!


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## roadrunner

devgupt said:


> oh so you seem to be saying he is more Indian than Pakistani?
> 
> we are discussing a serious issue of terrorist's identity and you are trivialising the whole isue by bringing up night clubs and girls.on second thoughts even trivialise is the wrong I used here. It seems you are not interested in serious discussion but more intent on making below the belt attacks and distasteful remarks. It really shows how much intelligent you are.
> 
> a wrist band is a wristband and nothing more . I would repeat what I said earlier -A wristband is not the necessary and suffcient condition to identify a hindu



We've gone through Shoaib Akhtar on the other thread. It is like the day Tony Blair was gifted a an orange Kalava wrist band after visiting a temple. He wore it for a day, then got rid of it (perhaps). It is similar to me wearing the steel bracelet got from the joke shop. It is a fashion accessory in our cases. 

However, Hindus, particularly RSS fanatics wear this orange wrist band. Muslims, and especially Pakistanis hardly ever wear one. When one goes on their last suicide mission at a young age, they have a high regard for religion, since it is that which promises them a better afterlife or reincarnation. Therefore it is highly likely that this was a Kalava wrist band worn for religious purposes implying that he's a Hindu (probably a fanatic). 

The Hindi dialect re-affirms this.


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## donrahul

roadrunner said:


> We've gone through Shoaib Akhtar on the other thread. It is like the day Tony Blair was gifted a an orange Kalava wrist band after visiting a temple. He wore it for a day, then got rid of it (perhaps). It is similar to me wearing the steel bracelet got from the joke shop. It is a fashion accessory in our cases.
> 
> However, Hindus, particularly RSS fanatics wear this orange wrist band. Muslims, and especially Pakistanis hardly ever wear one. When one goes on their last suicide mission at a young age, they have a high regard for religion, since it is that which promises them a better afterlife or reincarnation. Therefore it is highly likely that this was a Kalava wrist band worn for religious purposes implying that he's a Hindu (probably a fanatic).
> 
> The Hindi dialect re-affirms this.



I wonder how they missed out on the "Jai Shri Ram" shouts before they started shooting.. And no wonder, they lit the rooms of the hotels on fire to burn the dead according to Hindu customs. 

Dint the media report about the holy thread around their body, A hallmark of Brahmin hinduS? Oh no.. they mistook that it was used to sling the AK47 across their bodies.. 

Media also missed out one thing.. They came by boats all right.. But they had a holy dip in the Sagar matha b4 starting their cleansing operation..

Dude.. Its gettin increasingly difficult to make you see the light..

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## roadrunner

donrahul said:


> I wonder how they missed out on the "Jai Shri Ram" shouts before they started shooting.. And no wonder, they lit the rooms of the hotels on fire to burn the dead according to Hindu customs.
> 
> Dint the media report about the holy thread around their body, A hallmark of Brahmin hinduS? Oh no.. they mistook that it was used to sling the AK47 across their bodies..
> 
> Media also missed out one thing.. They came by boats all right.. But they had a holy dip in the Sagar matha b4 starting their cleansing operation..
> 
> Dude.. Its gettin increasingly difficult to make you see the light..



lol. This denial amongst you Indians is amusing. It's an orange wrist band, commonly worn amongst the cadres of the RSS. It shows devotion in Hinduism and wards of evil spirits. If I were a radical Hindu on a suicide mission I would be wearing one of those for faith purposes. 

The shouts and the chants are all superfluous stuff, but who knows what they/he was shouting. I would have thought it was some Islamist type of chant though given what he was claiming at the time.


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## donrahul

I say, I beg to differ.. This is one issue where everyone has to agree to disagree or is it the other way around(correct me someone!  ) 

But I say, lets stop arguing on evidences!! Lets wait till the truth comes out from the Joint Investigation. Its easy to point to an alternative expanation for every damn thing.. 

Indians in Denial? I would say, its only the Pakistani's in the whole world who are even thinking in such a way! That its a Hindu conspiracy to destroy you guys.. To be fair, Pakistan is doing bad enuf already. Why do you think we would want to nudge it into chaos? Reason and logic will tell that an unstable pakistan is not in India's best interests.

and What would Pakistan gain from such an action? A possible confrontation in the Eastern Border.. Which would divert the troops from the Western Border, where the ongoing operations are hugely unpopular with the normal Pakistani..

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## roadrunner

donrahul said:


> I say, I beg to differ.. This is one issue where everyone has to agree to disagree or is it the other way around(correct me someone!  )
> 
> But I say, lets stop arguing on evidences!! Lets wait till the truth comes out from the Joint Investigation. Its easy to point to an alternative expanation for every damn thing..
> 
> Indians in Denial? I would say, its only the Pakistani's in the whole world who are even thinking in such a way! That its a Hindu conspiracy to destroy you guys.. To be fair, Pakistan is doing bad enuf already. Why do you think we would want to nudge it into chaos? Reason and logic will tell that an unstable pakistan is not in India's best interests.
> 
> and What would Pakistan gain from such an action? A possible confrontation in the Eastern Border.. Which would divert the troops from the Western Border, where the ongoing operations are hugely unpopular with the normal Pakistani..



Absolute rubbish. India would love a divided Pakistan. A weak Pakistan is beneficial for India. Not the Afghanistan type of weakness, but divide and rule, and play the old game of warring factions.


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## donrahul

and this is the guy who asserts that the Indians are in denial mode.


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## haviZsultan

roadrunner said:


> We've gone through Shoaib Akhtar on the other thread. It is like the day Tony Blair was gifted a an orange Kalava wrist band after visiting a temple. He wore it for a day, then got rid of it (perhaps). It is similar to me wearing the steel bracelet got from the joke shop. It is a fashion accessory in our cases.
> 
> However, Hindus, particularly RSS fanatics wear this orange wrist band. Muslims, and especially Pakistanis hardly ever wear one. When one goes on their last suicide mission at a young age, they have a high regard for religion, since it is that which promises them a better afterlife or reincarnation. Therefore it is highly likely that this was a Kalava wrist band worn for religious purposes implying that he's a Hindu (probably a fanatic).
> 
> The Hindi dialect re-affirms this.



Yup speaking in pure hyd'z accent. 

Ya its clearly in the picture. Its a big fat kalava right there representing his affinity to the hindu radicals... 



roadrunner said:


> lol. This denial amongst you Indians is amusing. It's an orange wrist band, commonly worn amongst the cadres of the RSS. It shows devotion in Hinduism and wards of evil spirits. If I were a radical Hindu on a suicide mission I would be wearing one of those for faith purposes.
> 
> The shouts and the chants are all superfluous stuff, but who knows what they/he was shouting. I would have thought it was some Islamist type of chant though given what he was claiming at the time.



Very true...


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## haviZsultan

donrahul said:


> and this is the guy who asserts that the Indians are in denial mode.



Wait? Are u secretly trying to tell me they aren't? 

U deserve a fair investigation mate. 

How many times will u just believe ur govt.s claims no matter how stupid they are and no matter how many times we are blamed? This blaming Pakistan is na-insafi with all those killed. The real perpetrators must be found and punished.


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## Kharian_Beast

dimension117 said:


> Ak47 thi not Ak56...



Type 56 not AK47, very widely available in that region.


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## devgupt

roadrunner said:


> We've gone through Shoaib Akhtar on the other thread. It is like the day Tony Blair was gifted a an orange Kalava wrist band after visiting a temple. He wore it for a day, then got rid of it (perhaps). It is similar to me wearing the steel bracelet got from the joke shop. It is a fashion accessory in our cases.
> 
> However, Hindus, particularly RSS fanatics wear this orange wrist band. Muslims, and especially Pakistanis hardly ever wear one. When one goes on their last suicide mission at a young age, they have a high regard for religion, since it is that which promises them a better afterlife or reincarnation. Therefore it is highly likely that this was a Kalava wrist band worn for religious purposes implying that he's a Hindu (probably a fanatic).
> 
> The Hindi dialect re-affirms this.



Considering how smartly the terrorist was dressed it is very likely he was wearing the wristband as a fashion accessory.That wristband is fashion accesory has already has been proved by the pictures of your celebs wearing it and some of you have also accepted it.


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## Kharian_Beast

devgupt said:


> Considering how smartly the terrorist was dressed it is very likely he was wearing the wristband as a fashion accessory.That wristband is fashion accesory has already has been proved by the pictures of your celebs wearing it and some of you have also accepted it.



No mate it was a way for him to identify his partners in crime, ROK Sikh and Hindu brothers in arms.


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## s90

If they say that these boys were indians then everything will be over


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## AliFarooq

The black, one in the other hand was writs band, but the orrange (rakhi) string tied to the front hand was a rakhi..


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## devgupt

Kharian_Beast said:


> No mate it was a way for him to identify his partners in crime, ROK Sikh and Hindu brothers in arms.



after blaming hindus now you have started blaming Sikhs as well ?
Fantastic!!!!


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## devgupt

AliFarooq said:


> The black, one in the other hand was writs band, but the orrange (rakhi) string tied to the front hand was a rakhi..



have you ever seen a rakhi?

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## Nihat

Zaid Hamid: America will disintegrate


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## roadrunner

devgupt said:


> have you ever seen a rakhi?



Rakhis/Kalavas. These are Hindu orange/red wrist bands. They are worn in frequent numbers by the RSS


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## Vinod2070

^^ You are wrong. They have nothing to do with RSS.

Man get over your kalva fascination. It is nothing more than the Jews caused 9/11 and Obama's election was a conspiracy type theory.

You are repeating this ad-nauseum. Rest assured, it has outlived any utility. Move on.


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## AliFarooq

This is a brahma vishnu shiva rakhis, and to me it looks a lot like, the guy wearing it.


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## aimarraul

Flintlock said:


> Oh so China is peaceful now, is it?
> 
> *Forgotten Tibet already? *
> 
> I'm reading about riots against the police and the administration almost every other day in China - and that's just the stuff that gets reported.
> 
> And lets not mention the violence perpetrated by the State.
> 
> P.S. Change that American flag to the red one.



At least our cop in Tibet have the real gun againt the terrorist from india


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## Kharian_Beast

Updated Discussion Part 1







Part 2






Part 3






Part 4 






Part 5






Part 6


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## Kharian_Beast

Even more updated discussion Part 1 : 

6_O-tQ5gp7U[/media] - Siyasat Aur Pakistan- Current Situation Part1

Part 2 

nh9G0chwgCc[/media] - Siyasat Aur Pakistan- Current Situation Part2

Part 3

-rJoFoaUH9A[/media] - Siyasat Aur Pakistan- Current Situation Part3

Part 4

meRXhAqor-o[/media] - Siyasat Aur Pakistan- Current Situation Part4

Part 5

GVtZ9TXmO1E[/media] - Siyasat Aur Pakistan- Current Situation Part5

Part 6

KCprW5GBKno[/media] - Siyasat Aur Pakistan- Current Situation Part6


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## daredevil

Nihat said:


> Zaid Hamid: America will disintegrate
> 
> s7h8YX--4xA[/media] - Pakistani expert: America will disintegrate (turn CC on for subtitles)



. He must be on Hashish.

2 days no power in America?


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## Kharian_Beast

daredevil said:


> . He must be on Hashish.
> 
> 2 days no power in America?



He was referring to Katrina, a major catastrophe.


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## shchinese

Flintlock said:


> I'm reading about riots against the police and the administration almost every other day in China - and that's just the stuff that gets reported.



from your brainwashing media? 

and you actually read them? great!


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## Neo

* Rice tells Pakistan to act or US will​*
ISLAMABAD, Dec 5: The US Secretary of State, Dr Condoleezza Rice, is reported to have told Pakistan that there is irrefutable evidence of involvement of elements in the country in the Mumbai attacks and that it needs to act urgently and effectively to avert a strong international response.

The information emerging after her departure indicates that in her meetings with President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani, Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi and Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani during her four-hour stay in Islamabad, she had told the them that Islamabads options were quite limited.

Contrary to the formal statements issued by Pakistani authorities and her own statement at the Chaklala Airbase before her departure, sources said she pushed the Pakistani leaders to take care of perpetrators, otherwise the US will act.

She is reported to have said that the response needed to be effective and focused and that India was thinking on similar lines.

Dr Rice had told the media at Chaklala that there had been no talk of military action and the discussions had focussed on ways of dealing with the problem of terrorism.

She hinted at having communicated to Pakistani leaders that the matter of dealing with the perpetrators was more urgent than they might have thought. She said: There is urgency in getting to the bottom of it; there is urgency in bringing the perpetrators to justice; and there is urgency for using the information to disrupt and prevent further attacks.

Sources privy to the meetings said Pakistan had expressed its readiness to work jointly with India in investigating the incident, but had wanted such a cooperation to be comprehensive and also addressed its own concerns.

However, Ms Rice was reportedly not ready to listen to Pakistans grievances about Indias interference in Balochistan, the role of Indian consulates along the Afghan border in promoting instability in Pakistan and other such issues. Instead, she told Pakistani leaders that she would like to discuss only the issue at hand.

Meanwhile, despite Dr Rices hopes that the two countries would keep their channels of communication open, the India-Pakistan Composite Dialogue has effectively been put on hold, making the peace process one of the major casualties of the Mumbai attacks.

Proposed dates for the meetings of different segments of the composite dialogue were being finalised, but the entire process has now come to a halt, a source in Foreign Office told Dawn.

Sources in the Indian High Commission have indicated that the peace talks would not resume until Pakistan fully addressed their concerns.

The trade talks have already been postponed.

Similarly, a meeting of the defence secretaries of the two countries expected to be held in January is unlikely to go ahead. A visit by a team from Indias Planning Commission has also been put off.

A meeting of technical experts on the Sir Creek was postponed earlier because of technical reasons and it is not being rescheduled.

The fifth round of the composite dialogue began in July this year with a meeting of foreign secretaries of both countries in New Delhi.

The composite dialogue was last suspended by India in July 2006 after another terrorist attack on Mumbais commuter trains.

Foreign Minister Qureshi had earlier said that the peace process was under stress because of the terrorist incident, but expressed the hope that the two countries would soon overcome the hiccup in their ties.

After a meeting with the Indian High Commissioner, MQM leader Dr Farooq Sattar told DawnNews TV that the four-year-old peace process between Pakistan and India had suffered a major setback as a result of the Mumbai attacks.


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## Kharian_Beast

I hope our Indian viewers are enjoying the videos, best regards from Pakistan.

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## Vinod2070

^^ They are useless rants of a certifiable lunatic.

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## Kharian_Beast

Why so jealous?


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## devgupt

Kharian_Beast said:


> Why so jealous?



Why so serious?

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## chirkut

First, we blame Indian media of pointing fingers at us and then we have this joker Zaid Hamid spewing his nonsense on TV One... Come on guys we can do better than this... How can you even stand this idiot?

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## solid snake

This is the first time in my life that I've heard of any Pakistani connection with the separatism in China. Of course, since it's an Indian source, it cannot be trusted at all.

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## garibnawaz

solid snake said:


> This is the first time in my life that I've heard of any Pakistani connection with the separatism in China. Of course, since it's an Indian source, it cannot be trusted at all.



Dont trust their toilet and caste related news as well.


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## Silverfalcon

The mumbai attacks done by joint colloboration of BJP, MOSSAD and RAW

the worst mission ever carried out, every single thing exposed


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## gpit

Flintlock said:


> Oh so China is peaceful now, is it?
> 
> Forgotten Tibet already?
> 
> I'm reading about riots against the police and the administration almost every other day in China - and that's just the stuff that gets reported.
> 
> And lets not mention the violence perpetrated by the State.
> 
> P.S. Change that American flag to the red one.



yes, China is violent but is more peaceful than India as facts stand. That, however, doesn't rule out the posibility that India will improve (hopefully).

If the red and the star-spangled can positively influence each other and have the best of each other, the combination will truly sublimed to new height of human achievements. 

So, it might well be, Sir.


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## Flintlock

solid snake said:


> This is the first time in my life that I've heard of any Pakistani connection with the separatism in China. Of course, *since it's an Indian source, it cannot be trusted at all.*



Except when the Indian source concurs with your viewpoint


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## echo 1

We need to stop pointing fingers at one another and find a effective solution. I am not taking anyones side or anything but I turly think both India and Pakistan need to maybe conduct joint anti-terror exercises at the border. I know this sounds radical but I truly think this is the only way. China has already taken steps to assure India that it wants peace Now I think it is Indias and Pakistans turn to let their pride go and do something meaningful together. I say do it for the millions of innocent people in your respective country that have not done anything wrong and are being killed without a reason. Why should any innocant die due to these murderious monsters. They say they are doing this for religion but what religion allows the blood shed of women, childeren old and yourng. I am muslim and I am proud to be one but this is not what I was tought and this needs to stop for the sake of Pakistans citizens as well as the Indians. Again I am not taking anyones side but for the sake of those who die everyday for no reason We are all human after all we all have red blood just we dont always agree does not mean that we need to take the lives of the poor who have not caused anyone harm.

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## Vinod2070

Guys, did this Zaid guy appear on Times Now and was handed his arse by Maroof Raza and someone else?

I read that on another thread? Any links to the video?


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## Flintlock

Doesn't Pak have any media laws? How can they allow people to broadcast this crap?

This guy is making Pakistani media the laughing stock of the world.

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## was

Flintlock said:


> Doesn't Pak have any media laws? How can they allow people to broadcast this crap?
> 
> This guy is making Pakistani media the laughing stock of the world.



beacause he is speaking thruth. the world is not wacthing him he appears only on local urdu news channel on news1


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## BanglaBhoot

The 10 men known to have carried out the Mumbai terror attacks were part of a larger cadre of 30 who were given military training on how to conduct a suicide mission, according to police.

"Another 20 were ready to die," Mumbai Police Deputy Commissioner Deven Bharti said. "This is the very disturbing part of it," he told the New York Times.

The whereabouts of the 20 other men are unknown. 

The news came after the Indian government demanded that Jamaat-ud-Dawa, a charity linked to the Pakistan-based terror group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which Indian officials say was responsible for the Mumbai strike, be added to a UN terrorism blacklist.

"We have requested the Security Council to proscribe the Pakistani group Jamaat-ud-Dawa since it is a terrorist outfit," E. Ahamed, Indian minister of state for external affairs, told a special meeting of the UN Security Council on terrorism.

Pakistan's UN Ambassador Abdullah Hussain Haroon told the council Islamabad was ready to support such a measure.

There have been fears that more militants were on the loose since the terror attacks on India's commercial capital on November 26, which killed at least 170 people.

Police sources had earlier said that 24 terrorists received the same training  which included weapons handling and marine warfare drills

-- as the Mumbai gunmen in camps in Pakistan. They have now increased the number.

Indian officials allege that the camps were run by Lashkar-e-Taiba, which was founded to fight Indian rule in Kashmir.

The new information on the number of terrorist trainees came from the sole gunman to be taken alive, Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, who is being interrogated by police in Mumbai.

Leaders from Lashkar-e-Taiba picked out Kasab and the nine other Mumbai gunmen some months before the attacks. The chosen militants were then divided into five two-man teams, each of which was assigned a target in Mumbai. Each team was forbidden from sharing the information about their target with the others and never saw the other 20 trainees again, according to police.

Each of the 10 gunmen was armed with about a dozen grenades, a 9 mm pistol with two magazines, one AK-47 assault rifle with about seven magazines and 100-150 rounds of ammunition, police said.

Police in Mumbai have also named a fifth suspect in their investigation into the attacks. The man, identified only as Sabauddin, was arrested in February with the Indian-born Fahim Ansari, who was caught carrying maps that pinpointed several of the city landmarks that were hit in the raid on Mumbai.

Sabauddin has been held in the northern Indian state of Uttar Pradesh with Ansari since they were arrested for an attack on a reserve police camp.

Two others have been arrested for helping the gunmen get mobile phone cards, along with Kasab.

Mukhtar Ahmed, 35, originally from Indian-controlled Kashmir, was detained on Friday in Delhi. He is being held with another man, Tauseef Rehman, 26, who was arrested in his home city of Calcutta on the same day.

The detention of the two men, both now being held in Calcutta, had been hailed as a potentially key breakthrough in the Mumbai investigation.

The operation turned sour, however, after police in Srinagar, Indian Kashmir's summer capital, said that Ahmed worked for them, raising the possibility that an Indian agent aided the militants that committed India's worse terror attack in 15 years.

Mumbai police yesterday identified the nine gunmen that were killed and released pictures of eight of them. One was burned too badly, so his picture was withheld, he said.

All the men were Pakistani, the police said, raising pressure on India's neighbour to take action. 

Mumbai terrorists 'part of a larger group' - Times Online


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## devgupt

was said:


> beacause he is speaking thruth. the world is not wacthing him he appears only on local urdu news channel on news1



yes and he appears there only becuase thats his comfort zone-he knows that is the only place where people will suspend logic and reason to lap up whatever he will say.
He wont last 5 min before any other audience

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## Kharian_Beast

While he makes fantastic points, the overall package is indeed not presented in the most subtle or inclusive ways. But in times of crisis, people want straight talk, not old mumbling cronies who have learned bollocks over the past 3-4 decades. Zaid Hamid does give straight talk, what do you expect him to do speak in the viewpoint of a pandit or American banker? He is Pakistani first and foremost, which means he is entitled to his opinion especially if it will unite the nation when it is being divided on all fronts.


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## thorosius

*Mumbai Terror Attacks: The Mossad Angle*

They killed Hemant Karkare, chief of the police anti-terrorist squad in Mumbai, to send a message that you cannot investigate the Mossad-RSS angle
by Amaresh Misra 
MUMBAI, INDIA 4:00AM -- Mumbai is under attack. People and forces who killed Mahatama Gandhi, who demolished the Babari Mosque have triumphed. More than 16 groups of terrorists have taken over Taj, Oberai and several hotels. Hundreds of people are dead. For the first time no one is blaming Muslim organizations. The Mumbai ATS chief Hemant Karkare and other officers of the ATS have been killed. These were the same people who were investigating the Malegaon Blasts - in which Praggya Singh, an army officer and several other noted personalities of the BJP-RSS-Bajrang Dal-VHP were arrested. Karkare was the man to arrest them. Karkare was receiving threats from several quarters. LK Advani, the BJP chief and several other prominent leaders of the so-called Hindu terrorism squad were gunning for his head. And the first casualty in the terrorist attack was Karkare! He is dead - gone - the firing by terrorists began from Nariman House - which is the only building in Mumbai inhabited by Jews. Some Hindu Gujaratis of the Nariman area spoke live on several TV channels - they openly said that the firing by terrorists began from Nariman house. And that for two years suspicious activities were going on in this house. But no one took notice. 

Our worst fears have come true. It is clear that Mossad is involved in the whole affair. An entire city has been attacked by Mossad and probably units of mercenaries. It is not possible for one single organization to plan and execute such a sophisticated operation. It is clear that this operation was backed by communal forces from within the Indian State. The Home Minister Shivraj Patil should resign. The RSS-BJP-VHP-Bajrang Dal should be banned. Advani and others ought to be arrested. Today is a day of shame for all Indians and all Hindus. Muslims and secular Hindus have been proven right. RSS type forces and Israel are all involved in not only destabilizing but finishing India. India should immediately snap all relations with Israel. We owe this much to Karkare and the brave ATS men who had shown the courage to arrest Praggya Singh, Raj Kumar Purohit, the army officer and several others. 

A photograph published in Urdu Times, Mumbai, clearly shows that Mossad and ex-Mossad men came to India and met Sadhus and other pro-Hindutva elements recently. A conspiracy was clearly hatched. 

This is a moment of reckoning especially for Hindus of India. The killers of Gandhi have struck again. If we are true Sanatanis and true Hindus and true nationalists and true patriots we have to see this act as a clear attack by anti-national deshdrohi forces. Praggya Singh, Advani and the entire brand is anti-national. They ought to be shot. Any Hindu siding with them is hereafter warned of serious consequences. 

This is a question of nationalism. If no one else, the Indian army will not take this lying down. Communal, anti-national forces have attacked the very foundation of the Indian constitution and the nation. We will fight a civil war if need be against the pro-Hindutva, communal forces and their Israeli backers.

---

Mumbai Terror Attacks: The Mossad Angle


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## Kharian_Beast

Hindustani said:


> Brother he speaks crap.
> 
> Being an indian muslim
> i can assure you that there is not even one indian muslim girl who has been forced to marry a non muslim in india.
> 
> Zaid hamid said that there are thousand of indian muslims girls who are being forced to marry non muslims in india. what the hell he thinks about himself. this is how he is spreading hatred against indians.
> 
> I have many friend who have converted to islam from hindusim and christianity in india in my neighbourhood.
> 
> Zaid Hamid is not right and not even 1 &#37; of what he says is right.
> only people who have no education and uncultred people will agree & believe zaid hamid



Zaid Hamid > Indian Media.

some facts > pure bs

nationalism and unity > psy-ops and division

love for one's nation being displayed > watching one's nation abused on Indian channels.


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## Robin234

hmm source is not at all reliable whatever you say .


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## devgupt

yes and let reason go to hell


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## Kharian_Beast

devgupt said:


> yes and let reason go to hell



No, let Indian propaghandi go to hell 

Trust me, igniting nationalism in Pakistan whether based on facts or emotions should not be in India's interests and they should minimize the collateral damage seeping out of the sewer known as Indian media. 

The ball has already started rolling though.


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## roadrunner

I wonder what he's going to say?  Any thoughts? 

*Judge*: Can you confirm your name? 

*"Ajmal": *Yes, your honor (in his best Hindi accent while holding his right hand to take oath revealing a yellowy-orange wrist band that strangely looks like a Kalava). 

*Judge:* Where are you from "Ajmal" *wink wink* 

*"Ajmal": *Faridkot, your honour. I'm just the son of a poor dahi walla merchant. 

*Judge:* How did you learn English, "Ajmal" *wink wink* 

*"Ajmal":* errrr..... errrrmmmmm....... ugghhhhhh *splutters*. I need saline, your honor. Please put me on saline. 

......and so it continues....... 








*Surviving Mumbai gunman due before Indian judge*

The lone surviving gunman in the deadly Mumbai attacks was to appear before an Indian judge on Thursday so his detention for questioning can be extended, senior police officials told AFP.

The militant, Mohammed Ajmal Amir Iman, will receive an "extension of his remand," said Mumbai police chief Hassan Gafoor, who gave no further details, citing security concerns.

The officer in charge of the investigation, Mumbai crime branch chief Rakesh Maria, said he was unlikely to be shifted from the secret location where he is being interrogated.

"We have asked the magistrate to come to the crime branch in view of the security situation," he said.

He said that investigators were still finalising charges against Iman , including "making war against the country, murder, attempted murder and other charges under the arms and explosives act."

Iman, identified by Indian authorities as a Pakistani national, was one of 10 heavily-armed Islamist militants who killed 163 people across the financial capital Mumbai, including at two luxury hotels and the main railway station.

He was arrested on the first evening of the attacks, which transformed Mumbai into a battle zone from late on November 26 until November 29.

According to police, Iman, from Okara, in Pakistan's Punjab province, took part in the killing spree at Mumbai's main railway station.

Indian officials say the group were trained and sent by Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), a militant group based in Pakistan and viewed by some as a creation of Pakistan's military spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI).

Under intense international pressure, Pakistan launched a major operation over the weekend against militant organisations in the country, raiding a camp in Kashmir run by a charity linked to LeT and arresting 15 people.

Pakistan's Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said authorities there had arrested two senior LeT members -- Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi and Zarar Shah, both named by Indian media as suspected planners of the Mumbai attacks.

But the United States said it still wanted to see Pakistan adopt a tougher stance towards the group.

"What we are looking to see is if there's going to be a shift in Pakistan in how they deal with LeT," said White House spokeswoman Dana Perino.

"If it proves out, over time, that there is that shift, then that would be a good one, and something that we would welcome. But it's just too early for us to say," she told reporters.

The top US military chief applauded Islamabad's response since the Mumbai siege.

"They've moved pretty quickly with respect to these arrests, with respect to shutting down some of the camps, and all that, I think, is very positive," said chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Michael Mullen, who visited India and Pakistan last week.

India warned after the attacks that it was keeping all options open in dealing with Pakistan.

India and Pakistan -- both nuclear-armed -- have fought three wars since independence from Britain in 1947 and nearly came to a fourth in 2001 after an attack on the Indian parliament that was also blamed on the LeT.


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## EagleEyes

Lights, camera, action! Cant wait to see more drama by the Indian media.  Whoever said American Football is more entertaining than anything else.. most likely never seen this Indian media soap opera in his/her life.


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## Kharian_Beast

Somebody should Lee Harvey Oswald this guy, this thing is scripted. LeT is banned, ISI is no longer run by people like Hamid Gul...this guy is a lying ****


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## Awesome

Indians are using courts, why aren't we using our courts?

Our people are so stupid, they won't have a buy in of the entire nation, later this would spawn more terrorist attacks within Pakistan.

Put our guys before a judge, let a judge pronounce him guilty, and the entire nation would have a buy in that these guys were guilty and then we'll have done things by the book.


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## roadrunner

Well exactly. Why not Pakistan do some of this show trialing? 

And Pakistan is supposed to have the all powerful, all conquering ISI that is responsible for every calamity in South and West Asia from causing earthquakes that destroy whole villages to causing magnetic storms that flatten parts of India. 

If RAW can make up its evidence and present this as proof, why can't ISI? 

Let's leave aside for the moment that it's quite likely Mumbai was a false flag, but in the event of the Marriot, ISI could have grabbed somebody, named him "Ambikar Patel" from Tamil Nadu, and forced him into confessing to the bombing. Then simply put him on show in a court. Heck it could have even got him to say how he was a Dahi Wallah merchant from his village also! This is stronger evidence than India has given so far, and Indians at least seem to be falling for it.


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## daredevil

This guy is a very precious terrorist, he has give a lot of information to implicate Let and JuD in this attack. At least he will be given fair trial and he has no chance of going scot-free especially after killing 8 policemen.

It seems no body has come forward to defend this thug. Good job lawyers.


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## daredevil

WebMaster said:


> Lights, camera, action! Cant wait to see more drama by the Indian media.  Whoever said American Football is more entertaining than anything else.. most likely never seen this Indian media soap opera in his/her life.



Yeah right, we have already seen the Lollywood drama of Let banning in 2002, re arising as JuD, again re arresting JuD members and so on....


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## daredevil

roadrunner said:


> I wonder what he's going to say?  Any thoughts?
> 
> *Judge*: Can you confirm your name?
> 
> *"Ajmal": *Yes, your honor (in his best Hindi accent while holding his right hand to take oath revealing a yellowy-orange wrist band that strangely looks like a Kalava).
> 
> *Judge:* Where are you from "Ajmal" *wink wink*
> 
> *"Ajmal": *Faridkot, your honour. I'm just the son of a poor dahi walla merchant.
> 
> *Judge:* How did you learn English, "Ajmal" *wink wink*
> 
> *"Ajmal":* errrr..... errrrmmmmm....... ugghhhhhh *splutters*. I need saline, your honor. Please put me on saline.
> 
> ......and so it continues.......




According to official report, he doesn't speak English, you are still clinging to that old news. Get over it.

His Faridkot links have been proven by independent media outlets from UK. Get over that too.


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## third eye

roadrunner said:


> I wonder what he's going to say?  Any thoughts?
> 
> *Judge*: Can you confirm your name?
> 
> *"Ajmal": *Yes, your honor (in his best Hindi accent while holding his right hand to take oath revealing a yellowy-orange wrist band that strangely looks like a Kalava).
> 
> *Judge:* Where are you from "Ajmal" *wink wink*
> 
> *"Ajmal": *Faridkot, your honour. I'm just the son of a poor dahi walla merchant.
> 
> *Judge:* How did you learn English, "Ajmal" *wink wink*
> 
> *"Ajmal":* errrr..... errrrmmmmm....... ugghhhhhh *splutters*. I need saline, your honor. Please put me on saline.
> 
> ......and so it continues.......
> 
> If this were funny.. someone some day would laugh...


----------



## roadrunner

daredevil said:


> According to official report, he doesn't speak English, you are still clinging to that old news. Get over it.



Yes, he suddenly stopped speaking English. 



> His Faridkot links have been proven by independent media outlets from UK. Get over that too.



A chubby faced, well groomed, overweight, Tamil looking boy would not be the son of a "dahi walla" seller from a poor villlage. Almost exclusively those people are thin and ragged, and definitely don't speak Hindi. 

And independent media have not proven anything.


----------



## roadrunner

third eye said:


> roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what he's going to say?  Any thoughts?
> 
> *Judge*: Can you confirm your name?
> 
> *"Ajmal": *Yes, your honor (in his best Hindi accent while holding his right hand to take oath revealing a yellowy-orange wrist band that strangely looks like a Kalava).
> 
> *Judge:* Where are you from "Ajmal" *wink wink*
> 
> *"Ajmal": *Faridkot, your honour. I'm just the son of a poor dahi walla merchant.
> 
> *Judge:* How did you learn English, "Ajmal" *wink wink*
> 
> *"Ajmal":* errrr..... errrrmmmmm....... ugghhhhhh *splutters*. I need saline, your honor. Please put me on saline.
> 
> ......and so it continues.......
> 
> If this were funny.. someone some day would laugh...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I found it funny, as I do most Bollywood drama
Click to expand...


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## daredevil

roadrunner said:


> Yes, he suddenly stopped speaking English.


He didn't, because he never spoke in English. It was misreported in media and you are clinging to it. Look at official reports.



> A chubby faced, well groomed, overweight, Tamil looking boy would not be the son of a "dahi walla" seller from a poor villlage. Almost exclusively those people are thin and ragged, and definitely don't speak Hindi.
> 
> And independent media have not proven anything.



Independent media has proved that he was from Faridkot. You lost the argument with me on the other thread.

Here is a pakistani who might fit those features too


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## roadrunner

Daredevil. 

You're missing the point. 

He's the SON OF A POOR DAHI WALLA seller. Those people from villages do not have enough money to feed themselves, let alone their families. 

If you look at the Hindi speaking terrorist, he's clearly been fed very well, and groomed himself in such a way that he's clearly not been too short of money. 

Onto the youtube clip you posted. The man in that clip does NOT look like the Hindi speaking, Kalava wearing terrorist. I have only seen the front screen but I can tell from the facial features and build they are not of the same subrace. This is beside the point. He could be a Canadian Indian, he could be a Dutch Indian, he could be a Muhajir, but he is _Indian looking._ Anyhow Faridkot didn't receive any Muhajirs, let alone Hindi speaking ones.


----------



## theonlyone

thorosius said:


> *Mumbai Terror Attacks: The Mossad Angle*
> 
> They killed Hemant Karkare, chief of the police anti-terrorist squad in Mumbai, to send a message that you cannot investigate the Mossad-RSS angle
> by Amaresh Misra
> MUMBAI, INDIA 4:00AM -- Mumbai is under attack. People and forces who killed Mahatama Gandhi, who demolished the Babari Mosque have triumphed. More than 16 groups of terrorists have taken over Taj, Oberai and several hotels. Hundreds of people are dead. For the first time no one is blaming Muslim organizations. The Mumbai ATS chief Hemant Karkare and other officers of the ATS have been killed. These were the same people who were investigating the Malegaon Blasts - in which Praggya Singh, an army officer and several other noted personalities of the BJP-RSS-Bajrang Dal-VHP were arrested. Karkare was the man to arrest them. Karkare was receiving threats from several quarters. LK Advani, the BJP chief and several other prominent leaders of the so-called Hindu terrorism squad were gunning for his head. And the first casualty in the terrorist attack was Karkare! He is dead - gone - the firing by terrorists began from Nariman House - which is the only building in Mumbai inhabited by Jews. Some Hindu Gujaratis of the Nariman area spoke live on several TV channels - they openly said that the firing by terrorists began from Nariman house. And that for two years suspicious activities were going on in this house. But no one took notice.
> 
> Our worst fears have come true. It is clear that Mossad is involved in the whole affair. An entire city has been attacked by Mossad and probably units of mercenaries. It is not possible for one single organization to plan and execute such a sophisticated operation. It is clear that this operation was backed by communal forces from within the Indian State. The Home Minister Shivraj Patil should resign. The RSS-BJP-VHP-Bajrang Dal should be banned. Advani and others ought to be arrested. Today is a day of shame for all Indians and all Hindus. Muslims and secular Hindus have been proven right. RSS type forces and Israel are all involved in not only destabilizing but finishing India. India should immediately snap all relations with Israel. We owe this much to Karkare and the brave ATS men who had shown the courage to arrest Praggya Singh, Raj Kumar Purohit, the army officer and several others.
> 
> A photograph published in Urdu Times, Mumbai, clearly shows that Mossad and ex-Mossad men came to India and met Sadhus and other pro-Hindutva elements recently. A conspiracy was clearly hatched.
> 
> This is a moment of reckoning especially for Hindus of India. The killers of Gandhi have struck again. If we are true Sanatanis and true Hindus and true nationalists and true patriots we have to see this act as a clear attack by anti-national deshdrohi forces. Praggya Singh, Advani and the entire brand is anti-national. They ought to be shot. Any Hindu siding with them is hereafter warned of serious consequences.
> 
> This is a question of nationalism. If no one else, the Indian army will not take this lying down. Communal, anti-national forces have attacked the very foundation of the Indian constitution and the nation. We will fight a civil war if need be against the pro-Hindutva, communal forces and their Israeli backers.
> 
> ---
> 
> Mumbai Terror Attacks: The Mossad Angle


*For the first time no one is blaming Muslim organizations.
*
the author must be out of touch with reality.

*RSS type forces and Israel are all involved in not only destabilizing but finishing India. India should immediately snap all relations with Israel.*

Clearly showing his hatred.

*Any Hindu siding with them is hereafter warned of serious consequences. 
*
Is he really a journalist or a jihadi in disguise.

*We will fight a civil war if need be against the pro-Hindutva, communal forces and their Israeli backers.*

Quite dumb article overall


----------



## T-Rex

MBI Munshi said:


> The 10 men known to have carried out the Mumbai terror attacks were part of a larger cadre of 30 who were given military training on how to conduct a suicide mission, according to police.
> 
> "Another 20 were ready to die," Mumbai Police Deputy Commissioner Deven Bharti said. "This is the very disturbing part of it," he told the New York Times.
> 
> The whereabouts of the 20 other men are unknown.
> 
> The news came after the Indian government demanded that Jamaat-ud-Dawa, a charity linked to the Pakistan-based terror group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which Indian officials say was responsible for the Mumbai strike, be added to a UN terrorism blacklist.
> 
> "We have requested the Security Council to proscribe the Pakistani group Jamaat-ud-Dawa since it is a terrorist outfit," E. Ahamed, Indian minister of state for external affairs, told a special meeting of the UN Security Council on terrorism.
> 
> Pakistan's UN Ambassador Abdullah Hussain Haroon told the council Islamabad was ready to support such a measure.
> 
> There have been fears that more militants were on the loose since the terror attacks on India's commercial capital on November 26, which killed at least 170 people.
> 
> Police sources had earlier said that 24 terrorists received the same training  which included weapons handling and marine warfare drills
> 
> -- as the Mumbai gunmen in camps in Pakistan. They have now increased the number.
> 
> Indian officials allege that the camps were run by Lashkar-e-Taiba, which was founded to fight Indian rule in Kashmir.
> 
> The new information on the number of terrorist trainees came from the sole gunman to be taken alive, Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, who is being interrogated by police in Mumbai.
> 
> Leaders from Lashkar-e-Taiba picked out Kasab and the nine other Mumbai gunmen some months before the attacks. The chosen militants were then divided into five two-man teams, each of which was assigned a target in Mumbai. Each team was forbidden from sharing the information about their target with the others and never saw the other 20 trainees again, according to police.
> 
> Each of the 10 gunmen was armed with about a dozen grenades, a 9 mm pistol with two magazines, one AK-47 assault rifle with about seven magazines and 100-150 rounds of ammunition, police said.
> 
> Police in Mumbai have also named a fifth suspect in their investigation into the attacks. The man, identified only as Sabauddin, was arrested in February with the Indian-born Fahim Ansari, who was caught carrying maps that pinpointed several of the city landmarks that were hit in the raid on Mumbai.
> 
> Sabauddin has been held in the northern Indian state of Uttar Pradesh with Ansari since they were arrested for an attack on a reserve police camp.
> 
> Two others have been arrested for helping the gunmen get mobile phone cards, along with Kasab.
> 
> Mukhtar Ahmed, 35, originally from Indian-controlled Kashmir, was detained on Friday in Delhi. He is being held with another man, Tauseef Rehman, 26, who was arrested in his home city of Calcutta on the same day.
> 
> The detention of the two men, both now being held in Calcutta, had been hailed as a potentially key breakthrough in the Mumbai investigation.
> 
> The operation turned sour, however, after police in Srinagar, Indian Kashmir's summer capital, said that Ahmed worked for them, raising the possibility that an Indian agent aided the militants that committed India's worse terror attack in 15 years.
> 
> Mumbai police yesterday identified the nine gunmen that were killed and released pictures of eight of them. One was burned too badly, so his picture was withheld, he said.
> 
> All the men were Pakistani, the police said, raising pressure on India's neighbour to take action.
> 
> Mumbai terrorists 'part of a larger group' - Times Online



Ahmed, an Indian agent, helped the terrorists. Why has that fact been left out when they brought charges against Pakistan ? This shows the nature of the Indian investigation.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## donrahul

roadrunner said:


> Yes, he suddenly stopped speaking English.
> 
> 
> 
> A chubby faced, well groomed, overweight, Tamil looking boy would not be the son of a "dahi walla" seller from a poor villlage. Almost exclusively those people are thin and ragged, and definitely don't speak Hindi.
> 
> And independent media have not proven anything.



One day, I will send yu my pic.. and compare it with that fellow and let me know if yu still feel that he s a tamil looking guy..


----------



## daredevil

roadrunner said:


> Daredevil.
> 
> You're missing the point.
> 
> He's the SON OF A POOR DAHI WALLA seller. Those people from villages do not have enough money to feed themselves, let alone their families.
> 
> If you look at the Hindi speaking terrorist, he's clearly been fed very well, and groomed himself in such a way that he's clearly not been too short of money.
> 
> Onto the youtube clip you posted. The man in that clip does NOT look like the Hindi speaking, Kalava wearing terrorist. I have only seen the front screen but I can tell from the facial features and build they are not of the same subrace. This is beside the point. He could be a Canadian Indian, he could be a Dutch Indian, he could be a Muhajir, but he is _Indian looking._ Anyhow Faridkot didn't receive any Muhajirs, let alone Hindi speaking ones.



The point is not missed and it remains the same. Miraculously, the DAHI WALLA and his wife are missing, that is a mystery to me. You are not a Anthropologist to decide his place just by looking at facial features and skin color. As seen in above Youtube clip, there are Pakistani people who might look like that. 

He speaks Punjabi not Hindi according to official reports. The guys who you claim to speak Hindi are dead, so your point remains moot with respect to this guy.


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## theonlyone

roadrunner said:


> Daredevil.
> 
> You're missing the point.
> 
> He's the SON OF A POOR DAHI WALLA seller. Those people from villages do not have enough money to feed themselves, let alone their families.
> 
> If you look at the Hindi speaking terrorist, he's clearly been fed very well, and groomed himself in such a way that he's clearly not been too short of money.
> 
> Onto the youtube clip you posted. The man in that clip does NOT look like the Hindi speaking, Kalava wearing terrorist. I have only seen the front screen but I can tell from the facial features and build they are not of the same subrace. This is beside the point. He could be a Canadian Indian, he could be a Dutch Indian, he could be a Muhajir, but he is _Indian looking._ Anyhow Faridkot didn't receive any Muhajirs, let alone Hindi speaking ones.


He supposedly been in training for 3years.(from the reports about his hometown being confirmed as faridkot)Surely they wont train him for three years without giving him food.


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## daredevil

^^^
No body is discounting that local Indians are not involved and indeed there were two arrests made in this regard. Their main role seems to be providing the logistics. But the main attackers are Pakistan nationals and the attack is masterminded by LeT/JuD who are again Pakistan based. So, obviously charges were against Pakistani based elements.


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## was

T-Rex said:


> Ahmed, an Indian agent, helped the terrorists. Why has that fact been left out when they brought charges against Pakistan ? This shows the nature of the Indian investigation.



beacause then the world was watching them,and they can,t show to the world that there is terrorism in india to


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## was

daredevil said:


> ^^^
> No body is discounting that local Indians are not involved and indeed there were two arrests made in this regard. Their main role seems to be providing the logistics. But the main attackers are Pakistan nationals and the attack is masterminded by LeT/JuD who are again Pakistan based. So, obviously charges were against Pakistani based elements.



your goverment and media should have sticked on one story,sometimes they were saying that some banghladeshi,s are involved,sometimes they sayed they were british pakistanis,then they are bhutanis.
and what a surprise one is captured alive for investigation.
good job india


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## AliFarooq

i live in canada, here i can tell the diffeence between a indian and a pakistani. To me tht guy looks indian, i dnt care wt others say, from his facial features he does not look like a pakistani.


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## Flintlock

It seems to me that they only people who can tell the difference between an Indian and a Pakistani by simply using some "stereotype" don't actually live in Pakistan.


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## ejaz007

roadrunner said:


> Well exactly. Why not Pakistan do some of this show trialing?
> 
> And Pakistan is supposed to have the all powerful, all conquering ISI that is responsible for every calamity in South and West Asia from causing earthquakes that destroy whole villages to causing magnetic storms that flatten parts of India.
> 
> If RAW can make up its evidence and present this as proof, why can't ISI?
> 
> Let's leave aside for the moment that it's quite likely Mumbai was a false flag, but in the event of the Marriot, ISI could have grabbed somebody, named him "Ambikar Patel" from Tamil Nadu, and forced him into confessing to the bombing. Then simply put him on show in a court. Heck it could have even got him to say how he was a Dahi Wallah merchant from his village also! This is stronger evidence than India has given so far, and Indians at least seem to be falling for it.



You forgot the plague of Gujrat. The mouse were smuggled by ISI to Gujrat.


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## Goodperson

Qasab is crucial evidence himself, Given the mistrust with Pakistan India would rather give access to aggrived parties viz US, Israel and UK whose citizens were also the victims of Attacks.


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## AliFarooq

Flintlock said:


> It seems to me that they only people who can tell the difference between an Indian and a Pakistani by simply using some "stereotype" don't actually live in Pakistan.



Yes, cuz i have friends that are indian and they diffrent part of india, we get used to it here, indians and pakistanis can tell just by looking if hes an indian or pakistani.


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## roadrunner

daredevil said:


> The point is not missed and it remains the same. Miraculously, the DAHI WALLA and his wife are missing, that is a mystery to me.



They'd only be missing if they ever existed. 

If they do exist, this would be followed up. Even the media hasn't followed the lead of those journalists - why? because their "evidence" is so flimsy, it's not worth it. Faridkot is open even now. You, yourself, could go there, and do the same research. You may even meet his alleged parents. 



> You are not a Anthropologist to decide his place just by looking at facial features and skin color. As seen in above Youtube clip, there are Pakistani people who might look like that.



I know enough about anthropometrics to realize he's not the same subrace as the "Ajmal" that was captured. 

There are Pakistanis of Indian descent in Pakistan, just as there are Canadians of Indian descent in Canada, however they all look Indian. That is what I'm saying. 



> He speaks Punjabi not Hindi according to official reports. The guys who you claim to speak Hindi are dead, so your point remains moot with respect to this guy.



We've discussed this on another thread. He was speaking in a clear Hindi tongue, with words like Jullum. A Pakistani would not say such words.


----------



## roadrunner

theonlyone said:


> He supposedly been in training for 3years.(from the reports about his hometown being confirmed as faridkot)Surely they wont train him for three years without giving him food.



So for three years they fed the kid till he became an obese, podgy faced lard ***, and groomed him everyday so that he looked clean cut. That's some terrorist training camp he attended, turning him into a lard *** instead of a fighting machine.


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## rubyjackass

Nice reasoning. I hope all the posts on this forum have sense like this discussion.


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## Nihat

I think there was cover up - but only in the number of casualties overall. I think there were more.


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## theonlyone

roadrunner said:


> So for three years they fed the kid till he became an obese, podgy faced lard ***, and groomed him everyday so that he looked clean cut. That's some terrorist training camp he attended, turning him into a lard *** instead of a fighting machine.


he's supposed to act like a graduation student and its hardly alien for students to be clean shaven.


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## Flintlock

Nihat said:


> I think there was cover up - but only in the number of casualties overall. I think there were more.



And what makes you think that?


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## third eye

Flintlock said:


> It seems to me that they only people who can tell the difference between an Indian and a Pakistani by simply using some "stereotype" don't actually live in Pakistan.



Flint,
 
Those who matter have no doubts abt what is happening. The rest don't matter, in any case, the perpetual state of denial will remain.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## roadrunner

Goodperson said:


> Qasab is crucial evidence himself, Given the mistrust with Pakistan India would rather give access to aggrived parties viz US, Israel and UK whose citizens were also the victims of Attacks.



This is irrelevant. The Hind...I mean boy, "Ajmal", is in custody of the Indians. Whoever visits him will hear the same stories, until he is not in Indian custody. If he says a wrong word to anyone Americans Israelis Japanese, he'll be tortured some more. Please don't act like they don't torture even low level crooks in India.


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## roadrunner

theonlyone said:


> he's supposed to act like a graduation student and its hardly alien for students to be clean shaven.



You've not answered why they'd turn a slim, fit villager into an obese lard a-ss that would probably be out of breath if he had to walk more than 15 yards. 

What do they teach them at "terrorist training camp", how to eat lots of food, get as fat as possible, and then comb their hair? If he wants to disguise himself on a trawler, his big fat belly is probably going to make him stand out more than anyone else. 

I'm afraid even that story doesn't make much sense. 

You've still not offered any explanation as to why he was speaking Hindi (or wearing the Kalava).


----------



## third eye

Crackdown hints at Faridkot-Mumbai link -DAWN - Top Stories; December 12, 2008

*Crackdown hints at Faridkot-Mumbai link*
Dawn Special Report

KARACHI, Dec 11: The targeting of Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jamaatud Dawa and the rounding up of the activists belonging to the two jihadi organisations appear to have been triggered by information originating in India following the capture of one of the 10 men who attacked several targets in Mumbai towards the end of last month.

*During the course of Dawn&#8217;s own investigations last week our reporters were able to locate a family who claimed to be the kin of the arrested young man in Mumbai.*

The sole survivor among the 10 attackers was named as Ajmal Kasab and was supposed to belong to the village Faridkot in the Punjab. Media organisations such as the BBC and now the British newspaper Observer have done reports trying to ascertain the veracity of claims appearing in the media that the young man had a home there.

On Friday last, the BBC reported unusual activity in Faridkot near Deepalpur. A BBC correspondent located a house in the village, the then inhabitants of which carried the surname of Kasab (or Qasab as the word is often spelt here). But the residents denied any link with either Ajmal or with any Amir Kasab, the name of Ajmal&#8217;s father as reported by some of the media.

At the weekend, the Observer in England claimed that it had managed to locate the house everyone was looking for so desperately. Its correspondent said he had got hold of the voters&#8217; roll which had the names of Amir Kasab and his wife, identified as Noor, as well as the numbers on the identity cards the couple carried.

Even though the news stories by both BBC and the Observer made a mention of the LeT, some television channels in Pakistan suggested that a connection between Mumbai and Faridkot could not be established beyond a shadow of doubt.

*However, the man who said he was Amir Kasab confirmed to Dawn that the young man whose face had been beamed over the media was his son.*

For the next few minutes, the fifty-something man of medium build agonized over the reality that took time sinking in, amid sobs complaining about the raw deal the fate had given him and his family.

&#8220;I was in denial for the first couple of days, saying to myself it could not have been my son,&#8221; he told Dawn in the courtyard of his house in Faridkot, a village of about 2,500 people just a few kilometres from Deepalpur on the way to Kasur. &#8220;Now I have accepted it.

*&#8220;This is the truth. I have seen the picture in the newspaper. This is my son Ajmal.&#8221;*

Variously addressed as Azam, Iman, Kamal and Kasav, the young man, apparently in his 20s, is being kept in custody at an undisclosed place in Mumbai.

Indian media reports &#8216;based on intelligence sources&#8217; said the man was said to be a former Faridkot resident who left home a frustrated teenager about four years ago and went to Lahore.

*After his brush with crime and criminals in Lahore, he is said to have run into and joined a religious group during a visit to Rawalpindi.*

Along with others, claimed the Indian media, he was trained in fighting. And after a crash course in navigation, said Amir Kasab, a father of three sons and two daughters, Ajmal disappeared from home four years ago.

&#8220;He had asked me for new clothes on Eid that I couldn&#8217;t provide him. He got angry and left.&#8221;

While Amir was talking, Ajmal&#8217;s two &#8220;sisters and a younger brother&#8221; were lurking about. To Amir&#8217;s right, on a nearby charpoy, sat their mother, wrapped in a chador and in a world of her own. Her trance was broken as the small picture of Ajmal lying in a Mumbai hospital was shown around. They appeared to have identified their son. The mother shrunk back in her chador but the father said he had no problem in talking about the subject.

Amir Kasab said he had settled in Faridkot after arriving from the nearby Haveli Lakha many years ago. He owned the house and made his earnings by selling pakoras in the streets of the village.

He modestly pointed to a hand-cart in one corner of the courtyard. &#8220;This is all I have. I shifted back to the village after doing the same job in Lahore.

&#8220;My eldest son, Afzal, is also back after a stint in Lahore. He is out working in the fields.&#8221;

Faridkot is far from the urbanites&#8217; idea of a remote village. It is located right off a busy road and bears all the characteristics of a lower-middle class locality in a big city.

It has two middle-level schools, one for girls and the other for boys which Ajmal attended as a young boy. For higher standards, the students have to enroll in schools in Deepalpur which is not as far off as the word remote tends to indicate.

It by no means qualifies as Punjab&#8217;s backwaters, which makes the young Ajmal&#8217;s graduation to an international &#8220;fearmonger&#8221; even more difficult to understand. The area can do with cleaner streets and a better sewage system but the brick houses towards the side of the Kasur-Deepalpur road have a more organised look to them than is the case with most Pakistani villages.

*The Observer newspaper reports that some locals seeking anonymity say the area is a hunting ground for the recruiters of LeT and provides the organisation with rich pickings.*

The approach to Faridkot also points to at least some opportunities for those looking for a job. There are some factories in the surroundings, rice mills et al, interspersed with fertile land. But for the gravity of the situation, with its mellowed and welcoming ambience, the picture could be serene.

It is not and Amir Kasab repeats how little role he has had in the scheme since the day his son walked out on him. He calls the people who snatched Ajmal from him his enemies but has no clue who these enemies are. Asked why he didn&#8217;t look for his son all this while, he counters: &#8220;What could I do with the few resources that I had?&#8221;

Otherwise quite forthcoming in his answers, Amir Kasab, a mild-mannered soul, is a bit agitated at the mention of the link between his son&#8217;s actions and money. Indian media has claimed that Ajmal&#8217;s handlers had promised him that his family will be compensated with Rs150,000 (one and a half lakh) after the completion of the Mumbai mission.

&#8220;I don&#8217;t sell my sons,&#8221; he retorts.

*Journalists visiting Faridkot since Dawn reporters were at the village say the family has moved from their home and some relatives now live in the house. Perhaps fearing a media invasion, nobody is willing to say where the family has gone.*

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## roadrunner

third eye said:


> A BBC correspondent located a house in the village, *the then inhabitants of which carried the surname of Kasab (or Qasab as the word is often spelt here). *But the residents denied any link with either Ajmal or with any Amir Kasab, the name of Ajmal&#8217;s father as reported by some of the media.



This is simply not true, and is disinformation that can be proven quite easily. 

The alleged father of "Ajmal Qasab" was not called "Amir Qasab" by any Observer/BBC reporter. 

The alleged father was called "Mohammed Amir". 



DailyTimes said:


> The correspondent, Saeed Shah, who visited the village, writes in The Observer, London, that he has obtained electoral lists for Faridkot showing 478 registered voters, including a *Muhammad Amir*, married to one *Noor Elahi*. Amir&#8217;s and Noor&#8217;s national identity card numbers are also said to have been obtained. At the house where the family is said to live, a man calling himself Sultan said he was Muhammad Amir&#8217;s father-in-law.
> Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan





DailyTimes said:


> &#8220;The list of 478 registered voters shows a Muhammad Amir, married to Noor Elahi, living in Faridkot. Amir&#8217;s national identity card number is given as 3530121767339, and Noor&#8217;s is 3530157035058.&#8221;
> Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan






> *However, the man who said he was Amir Kasab confirmed to Dawn that the young man whose face had been beamed over the media was his son.*



There is no "Amir Qasab" living in Faridkot, it's been proven. There is a Muhammed Amir, as per the international media reports. 

This just confirms what I was saying before. That these illiterate people from these poor villages will say anything to bring wealthy reporters back to their village. They will say anything under bribery. 

I'll repeat for you. There is no "Amir Qasab" in Faridkot. The Observer reports have checked the electoral register and could not find anybody with the surname of Qasab on it. 



> Journalists visiting Faridkot since Dawn reporters were at the village say the family has moved from their home and some relatives now live in the house. Perhaps fearing a media invasion, nobody is willing to say where the family has gone.



Oh, that's convenient. As soon as Dawn interview this "Amir Qasab" who does not exist on the electoral register, he disappears never to be interviewed again. The Dawn (who does not mention any correspondent by name), just managed to get the scoop luckily. 

At the very least, those names are fabricated. You can see why I said that simple journalism is no proof of anything.


----------



## third eye

roadrunner said:


> *This is simply not true, and is disinformation that can be proven quite easily. *
> The alleged father of "Ajmal Qasab" was not called "Amir Qasab" by any Observer/BBC reporter.
> 
> The alleged father was called "Mohammed Amir".
> 
> 
> Denial denial denial....
> 
> I wonder if this article was a RAW plant gleefully published by the Dawn ?


----------



## roadrunner

roadrunner said:


> *This is simply not true, and is disinformation that can be proven quite easily. *
> The alleged father of "Ajmal Qasab" was not called "Amir Qasab" by any Observer/BBC reporter.
> 
> The alleged father was called "Mohammed Amir".
> 
> 
> Denial denial denial....
> 
> I wonder if this article was a RAW plant gleefully published by the Dawn ?



lol. It's not denial at all. These are all *JOURNALIST reports*. Need I mention how many lies the Indian media made? 

I pointed out there is no Amir Qasab on the electoral role. There IS a Muhammad Amir. So the article you quoted is factually incorrect. How is that denial. 

When I hear the GoP acknowledging this report to be true, THEN it will be true. If a journalist says something is true, then that is of very little importance. Saddam was reported to have drones of death, Pakistan Army were reported to have slaughtered a mathematically impossible 3 million Bengalis in a couple of months, Hitler was reported to be a very fair and balanced man in past German media. Until things are confimed, they are only true in the minds of those WISHING it were true. 

But I'm willing to wait, until all this is confirmed. I doubt it's true though. 

It sounds more like a competition between newspapers to be the first to say they met the non existent Amir Kasab.

You would kindly explain to me why there is no "Qasab" on the electoral roll in Faridkot?


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## roadrunner

LOL. And here's the newest one. The father's name is "Saddiq Jawai"!! 



> Then Ghulam Mustafa, mayor of Faridkot, suddenly appeared. Yes, there was an Ajmal in Faridkot, Mustafa said. Yes, his house is here. His mother is there. We can go there, he said.
> 
> The crowd swelled as Mustafa led the way through a narrow maze of tumbledown brick compounds. They pushed purposefully past a house pulsing with music from an engagement party, made a sharp left and poured through the wooden archway of another compound. A few curious young boys in maroon-and-gold school uniforms trailed along, crowding into a small, enclosed courtyard where Mustafa said the mother of the man known simply as Ajmal had lived.
> 
> Mustafa strode toward a petite, frail-looking woman with dark skin and piercing blue eyes. Her weathered face looked pained as strangers asked her for the umpteenth time since the Mumbai attacks about her son.
> 
> "Don't make me worry. I'm a poor lady. My son is a poor laborer, earning 20 to 30 rupees a day," she said.
> 
> With tears in her eyes and wringing her hands, she gave her name as *Amerin Jawai*. Asked about her husband, she hesitated for a moment, *then said his name was Saddiq*. She said her son, Ajmal, was 25 years old, worked in a brick factory in Faridkot, and was somewhere hanging out. He has no cellphone so he could not be reached.
> 
> Is Ajmal married, someone asked. Yes, he has a wife and two children, Jawai said. Where is Ajmal's wife? She is not here, she lives with her father in the village of Shergarh, Jawai replied. Jawai said Ajmal's father died when Ajmal was 12.
> 
> 
> What about a photo? Jawai nodded sharply toward the mayor. "No. I have repeatedly told him to make an ID card for my son, but he hasn't done it. So he is the reason we do not have a photo of him," Jawai said, indicating the mayor.
> 
> Mustafa laughingly shrugged off the woman's comment. A few minutes later, as darkness fell, he hurriedly escorted his guests back to their car.
> washingtonpost.com




And if you need proof there's no Kasab on the electoral roll of Faridkot 



> *There is no Kasab*," said Ali Sher, brother of the town's mayor. *"We have a list of each person who is registered to vote. There is no Ajmal." *
> 
> When asked about Indian claims that Kasab's mother, Noor Elahi, lives in the town, Sher chuckled, shook his head and said several women sharing the same name live in Faridkot. *As for Kasab's father, residents confirmed that a Muhammad Amir once lived in the town. **But he was 75 or 80 years old and had moved away from Faridkot about 10 years ago, they said*. And, besides, they added, Muhammad Amir was a brick worker, not a butcher, as the Urdu translation of the name "Kasab" would imply.
> washingtonpost.com



Now this is also an international reporter, but I somehow doubt you'll accept it. 

There is no "Kasab" on the electoral roll of Faridkot. There WAS a Muhammed Amir that left the area 10 years ago according to residents. 

Can I claim that you're in *denial* now also? 



Like I said these are reports, not facts.


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## third eye

roadrunner said:


> third eye said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol. It's not denial at all. These are all *JOURNALIST reports*. Need I mention how many lies the Indian media made?
> 
> I pointed out there is no Amir Qasab on the electoral role. There IS a Muhammad Amir. So the article you quoted is factually incorrect. How is that denial.
> 
> *When I hear the GoP acknowledging this report to be true*, THEN it will be true. If a journalist says something is true, then that is of very little importance. Saddam was reported to have drones of death, Pakistan Army were reported to have slaughtered a mathematically impossible 3 million Bengalis in a couple of months, Hitler was reported to be a very fair and balanced man in past German media. Until things are confimed, they are only true in the minds of those WISHING it were true.
> 
> But I'm willing to wait, until all this is confirmed. I doubt it's true though.
> 
> It sounds more like a competition between newspapers to be the first to say they met the non existent Amir Kasab.
> 
> You would kindly explain to me why there is no "Qasab" on the electoral roll in Faridkot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't care less if there is or isn't a Qasab on an electoral role .
> 
> Can you say with authority ALL ppl who are eligible to vote are listed on electoral rolls in Pak ? I have no idea how old he is & if he is / was eligible to vote . In any case, considering his background, it was unlikley that he would have been interested to cast his ballot.
> 
> What is the point of wanting GOP to accept , when the words of the Pres of Pak are not accepted / believed by the nation he rules ? Once accepted, you'll probably want a Gazette notification or a white paper.. the list will go on & on..
> 
> Further, it was not posted for acceptance by anyone, just to highlight what the Pak media ( who was so patriotic & an upholder of national virtues) feels & prints.
Click to expand...


----------



## Robin234

> KARACHI, Dec 11: The targeting of Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jamaatud Dawa and the rounding up of the activists belonging to the two jihadi organisations appear to have been triggered by information originating in India following the capture of one of the 10 men who attacked several targets in Mumbai towards the end of last month.
> 
> During the course of Dawns own investigations last week our reporters were able to locate a family who claimed to be the kin of the arrested young man in Mumbai.
> 
> The sole survivor among the 10 attackers was named as Ajmal Kasab and was supposed to belong to the village Faridkot in the Punjab. Media organisations such as the BBC and now the British newspaper Observer have done reports trying to ascertain the veracity of claims appearing in the media that the young man had a home there.
> 
> On Friday last, the BBC reported unusual activity in Faridkot near Deepalpur. A BBC correspondent located a house in the village, the then inhabitants of which carried the surname of Kasab (or Qasab as the word is often spelt here). But the residents denied any link with either Ajmal or with any Amir Kasab, the name of Ajmals father as reported by some of the media.
> 
> At the weekend, the Observer in England claimed that it had managed to locate the house everyone was looking for so desperately. Its correspondent said he had got hold of the voters roll which had the names of Amir Kasab and his wife, identified as Noor, as well as the numbers on the identity cards the couple carried.
> 
> Even though the news stories by both BBC and the Observer made a mention of the LeT, some television channels in Pakistan suggested that a connection between Mumbai and Faridkot could not be established beyond a shadow of doubt.
> 
> However, the man who said he was Amir Kasab confirmed to Dawn that the young man whose face had been beamed over the media was his son.
> 
> For the next few minutes, the fifty-something man of medium build agonized over the reality that took time sinking in, amid sobs complaining about the raw deal the fate had given him and his family.
> 
> I was in denial for the first couple of days, saying to myself it could not have been my son, he told Dawn in the courtyard of his house in Faridkot, a village of about 2,500 people just a few kilometres from Deepalpur on the way to Kasur. Now I have accepted it.
> 
> This is the truth. I have seen the picture in the newspaper. This is my son Ajmal.
> 
> Variously addressed as Azam, Iman, Kamal and Kasav, the young man, apparently in his 20s, is being kept in custody at an undisclosed place in Mumbai.
> 
> Indian media reports based on intelligence sources said the man was said to be a former Faridkot resident who left home a frustrated teenager about four years ago and went to Lahore.
> 
> After his brush with crime and criminals in Lahore, he is said to have run into and joined a religious group during a visit to Rawalpindi.
> 
> Along with others, claimed the Indian media, he was trained in fighting. And after a crash course in navigation, said Amir Kasab, a father of three sons and two daughters, Ajmal disappeared from home four years ago.
> 
> He had asked me for new clothes on Eid that I couldnt provide him. He got angry and left.
> 
> While Amir was talking, Ajmals two sisters and a younger brother were lurking about. To Amirs right, on a nearby charpoy, sat their mother, wrapped in a chador and in a world of her own. Her trance was broken as the small picture of Ajmal lying in a Mumbai hospital was shown around. They appeared to have identified their son. The mother shrunk back in her chador but the father said he had no problem in talking about the subject.
> 
> Amir Kasab said he had settled in Faridkot after arriving from the nearby Haveli Lakha many years ago. He owned the house and made his earnings by selling pakoras in the streets of the village.
> 
> He modestly pointed to a hand-cart in one corner of the courtyard. This is all I have. I shifted back to the village after doing the same job in Lahore.
> 
> My eldest son, Afzal, is also back after a stint in Lahore. He is out working in the fields.
> 
> Faridkot is far from the urbanites idea of a remote village. It is located right off a busy road and bears all the characteristics of a lower-middle class locality in a big city.
> 
> It has two middle-level schools, one for girls and the other for boys which Ajmal attended as a young boy. For higher standards, the students have to enroll in schools in Deepalpur which is not as far off as the word remote tends to indicate.
> 
> It by no means qualifies as Punjabs backwaters, which makes the young Ajmals graduation to an international fearmonger even more difficult to understand. The area can do with cleaner streets and a better sewage system but the brick houses towards the side of the Kasur-Deepalpur road have a more organised look to them than is the case with most Pakistani villages.
> 
> The Observer newspaper reports that some locals seeking anonymity say the area is a hunting ground for the recruiters of LeT and provides the organisation with rich pickings.
> 
> The approach to Faridkot also points to at least some opportunities for those looking for a job. There are some factories in the surroundings, rice mills et al, interspersed with fertile land. But for the gravity of the situation, with its mellowed and welcoming ambience, the picture could be serene.
> 
> It is not and Amir Kasab repeats how little role he has had in the scheme since the day his son walked out on him. He calls the people who snatched Ajmal from him his enemies but has no clue who these enemies are. Asked why he didnt look for his son all this while, he counters: What could I do with the few resources that I had?
> 
> Otherwise quite forthcoming in his answers, Amir Kasab, a mild-mannered soul, is a bit agitated at the mention of the link between his sons actions and money. Indian media has claimed that Ajmals handlers had promised him that his family will be compensated with Rs150,000 (one and a half lakh) after the completion of the Mumbai mission.
> 
> I dont sell my sons, he retorts.
> 
> Journalists visiting Faridkot since Dawn reporters were at the village say the family has moved from their home and some relatives now live in the house. Perhaps fearing a media invasion, nobody is willing to say where the family has gone.



source ->
Crackdown hints at Faridkot-Mumbai link -DAWN - Top Stories; December 12, 2008


----------



## roadrunner

roadrunner said:


> I couldn't care less if there is or isn't a Qasab on an electoral role .
> 
> Can you say with authority ALL ppl who are eligible to vote are listed on electoral rolls in Pak ? I have no idea how old he is & if he is / was eligible to vote . In any case, considering his background, it was unlikley that he would have been interested to cast his ballot.



Then your in denial. Why would the father of Qasab who allegedly comes from Faridkot, not want to vote? It's very good evidence that no Qasab existed in that village ever. A Muhammed Amir did, but then he'd be called Ajmal Amir, not Qasab. 



> What is the point of wanting GOP to accept , when the words of the Pres of Pak are not accepted / believed by the nation he rules ? Once accepted, you'll probably want a Gazette notification or a white paper.. the list will go on & on..
> 
> Further, it was not posted for acceptance by anyone, just to highlight what the Pak media ( who was so patriotic & an upholder of national virtues) feels & prints.



You seemed to think it proved something. Does this mean I proved that actually Saddiq Jawai and Amerain Jawai are the parents of Kasab now?! 

NO, because these are simple reports, Chinese whispers. As if some journalists would know more than ISI.


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## third eye

roadrunner said:


> third eye said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then your in denial. Why would the father of Qasab who allegedly comes from Faridkot, not want to vote? It's very good evidence that no Qasab existed in that village ever. A Muhammed Amir did, but then he'd be called Ajmal Amir, not Qasab.
> 
> 
> 
> You seemed to think it proved something. Does this mean I proved that actually Saddiq Jawai and Amerain Jawai are the parents of Kasab now?!
> 
> NO, because these are simple reports, Chinese whispers. As if some journalists would know more than ISI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you address all ur concerns to the Editor of the Dawn ? I am only highlighting what he has printed in his paper.
> 
> Like I said.. I could'nt care less...
> 
> The psyche will not change. You don't believe ur papers, u don't accept what ur Pres or PM says, the UN is full of BS, the world is conspiring against you..
Click to expand...


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## roadrunner

roadrunner said:


> Why don't you address all ur concerns to the Editor of the Dawn ? I am only highlighting what he has printed in his paper.
> 
> Like I said.. I could'nt care less...
> 
> The psyche will not change. You don't believe ur papers, u don't accept what ur Pres or PM says, the UN is full of BS, the world is conspiring against you..



That's a reply full of substance isn't it? 

The UN is not full of BS. I totally support the UN resolutions calling on India to withdraw from Kashmir. The President AND PM of Pakistan have not said any of the terrorists came from Pakistan. They've said they have not seen any evidence. And neither has anyone else, it would seem.


----------



## Beskar

Unedited, Un-censored. General(R) Hamid Gul giving the world something to ponder about.

A MUST SEE!


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## Kharian_Beast

Alex Jones Zindabad.


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## Awesome

CNN edited his interview!

WTH is going on here?


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## rubyjackass

So please enlighten us on why Pakistan is facing the problem of terrorism.
Please ... seriously. I am not really aware.


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## Flintlock

rubyjackass said:


> So please enlighten us on why Pakistan is facing the problem of terrorism.
> Please ... seriously. I am not really aware.



Why Indeed.....if only India would disappear into thin air, all of Pakistan's problems would be over!


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## Geromix

Flintlock said:


> Why Indeed.....if only India would disappear into thin air, all of Pakistan's problems would be over!



We cant pick our neighbors,we have to live with them.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## shrivatsa

Robin234 said:


> source ->
> Crackdown hints at Faridkot-Mumbai link -DAWN - Top Stories; December 12, 2008



How can it be? he was wearing kalav these is raw conspiracy


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## s90

From where the other 9 were?


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## gateway123

are u joking.. every thing in the world is a raw conspiracy.. get a life.. accept the facts


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## dabloo

roadrunner said:


> That's a reply full of substance isn't it?
> 
> The UN is not full of BS. I totally support the UN resolutions calling on India to withdraw from Kashmir. The President AND PM of Pakistan have not said any of the terrorists came from Pakistan. They've said they have not seen any evidence. And neither has anyone else, it would seem.



Dear Friend, 

What UN resolution are you talking about.

Have a look: U.N.Resolution on J&K August 13, 1948

and give us your comment.

Thanks
Dabloo


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## s90

Alex Jones  CNN,BBC are always biased


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## Robin234

gateway123 said:


> are u joking.


No,this from your own media "DAWN " and accept the facts .



s90 said:


> From where the other 9 were?




Genome report done by US, of the other 9 dead Terrorist will prove that .


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## Beskar

devgupt said:


> yes and he appears there only becuase thats his comfort zone-he knows that is the only place where people will suspend logic and reason to lap up whatever he will say.
> He wont last 5 min before any other audience



A person has to establish his identity in his own country first. Zaid hamid's a relatively new voice on the pakistani media. First and foremost of his priority is to address his OWN people. His Nation. And he's doing a hell of a good job in that sector. (Considering how you indians are itching all over youtube now, leaving SPECIFIC hate-mail to random pakistani youtube users)

When he's done with the domestic front, he'll broaden his horizons to other audience. Basically, if you would've had some knowledge about how things work in the "REAL" world, you'd know what i'm trying to say here.


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## chindit

Dawn must be an Indian newspaper .. where can i buy it


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## roadrunner

dabloo said:


> Dear Friend,
> 
> What UN resolution are you talking about.
> 
> Have a look: U.N.Resolution on J&K August 13, 1948
> 
> and give us your comment.
> 
> Thanks
> Dabloo



We have a sticky thread in the "strategy & geopolitics" subforum that answers all this. And to date no Indian has managed to give a satisfactory explanation of why India did not follow the UN resolutions.


----------



## smeaglegolum

^^Some people want to live in their fantasy land where they feel everything is perfect and nobody could do wrong inspite of a wealth of evidence accumulating implicating those people and as we speak Let/JuD camps are shut down, their clinics, front offices are shutdown, but still people want to live in their Utopian land. 

People also believed that there was no sponsoring of terrorism in Pakistan and lived in denial and see what is happening, they are hitting back very hand at pakistan and thye seem to have no answers. Same will happen in the case of Mumbai attacks, a lot of evidence is already hitting back, whole world is saying that Pakistan based elements are involved and thier all weather friend China has also supported UNSC resolutions to that effect. Let such people live in denial, they will not know what hit them and if it hit them, they will still live in denial. No body can do about such people except for leaving them to their fate.

So guys don't worry about proving the worth of evidence to people who want to live in denial.


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## roadrunner

chindit said:


> Dawn must be an Indian newspaper .. where can i buy it



This just happens to show that Pakistani papers have more freedom to print whatever they like without interference from the State. The Indian papers do not have this freedom. If you read what the Dawn says, it's simply a claim by one paper that equally can be bogus, and according to the WashingtonPost report, is bogus. 

I have disproven the names they gave, anyhow.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## roadrunner

smeaglegolum said:


> So guys don't worry about proving the worth of evidence to people who want to live in denial.



Yep, that's right. Don't worry about proving anything. Simply because you can't prove anything. Just rely on Chinese whispers, or odd newspaper reports here and there. 

There's no proof of anything. If you could prove it, I would not be able to refute anything.


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## smeaglegolum

roadrunner said:


> Yep, that's right. Don't worry about proving anything. Simply because you can't prove anything. Just rely on Chinese whispers, or odd newspaper reports here and there.
> 
> There's no proof of anything. If you could prove it, I would not be able to refute anything.



But it seems you GoP doesn't want to live in denial like you, they are acting on the perpetrators and some of them are under arrest. There will be no smoke without fire. 

Looks like your govt. is in lot of despair and losing the game heavily on diplomatic front. Fortunately, GoP doesn't have people who live in denial, and they had to take action and they are taking them and they know the consequences for not doing so, in your own defence minister words below



> *We can take on enemies but not the world: Pak*
> 
> PTI | December 12, 2008 | 16:51 IST
> 
> Pakistan, which has launched a crackdown on Jamaat-ud-Dawah, on Friday said the country faced the prospects of being declared a terrorist state and left with a crippled economy if it had not acted on the sanctions imposed on the terrorist group by the UN Security Council.
> 
> *"There was a resolution in the United Nations Security Council. If Pakistan had not taken steps under that, then they could have declared Pakistan a terrorist state. They could have crippled Pakistan's economy," Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar said.*
> 
> *"If the whole world is on one side, Pakistan does not have the strength to face the whole world. We can fight against our enemies, but we can't fight an economic war with the whole world," he told&#65533;media persons&#65533;at the Islamabad airport.*
> 
> Pakistan has launched a crackdown on JuD, the front organisation of the banned LeT blamed for the Mumbai terror attacks, in response to the UN Security Council's declaration of the group as a terrorist outfit, he said.
> 
> Referring to the tension sparked by the Mumbai terror attacks and reports of a possible military confrontation between Pakistan and India, Mukhtar said war was 'not to the advantage of either' country.
> 
> Pakistan on Thursday banned the JuD and placed its chief Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, also the founder of the LeT, under house arrest for three month. Jamaat offices across the country were sealed on Thursday night by police and security agencies. There are also unconfirmed reports that dozens of Jamaat activists have been detained.


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## rubyjackass

metalfalcon said:


> *There is no doubt about that, India media didn't behaved professionally, they Blamed Pakistan, ISI and Pakistan navy without proper information from Indian officials and they are Playing their role in the current Elections as Bollywood stars and Indian Cricketers are coming on Media and are giving interviews in which they are asking for the resignation of many Ministers of Congress so they are helping BJP isn't it ?*



Come on dude...
Why is that unprofessional? Media exists to report what happened. People were eager to know what was happening. I, myself, stayed through the night to see how the situation was tackled. The reason why they could report the attacks so comprehensively is because the situation lasted for 3 days.
It is not like the media was blaming Pakistan during the coverage. I watched and switched between almost all news channels. It had nothing to do with hatred towards Pakistan. But they did report sometimes about how the world was reacting and what the Indian officials have to say about the operations and the information about the perpetrators.

The more class channels reported more about the international situation and diplomatic situation. While the mass local channels gave real time feed about the flushing operations. The local channels rarely looked at other aspects except for some interviews with personnel on the site. The class channels reported the accusations of Indian authorities as they were(I mean in the form of spokespersons or press releases).

I remember especially a feed of the Pakistan FM talking to Indian FM on phone while in a press conference. It was obvious that his Indian counterpart was spitting flames. But he managed the situation very admirably(seriously,no pun intended, with all my heart), not speaking a word aloud except 'ok', 'jee' and 'I am in the middle of a press conference' . I loved him for his statesmanship(or whatever it should be called). Anyone else in his 
place would have fluttered.

But not much was said about hating Pakistan. One such exception is the statement of Maharashtra CM whose press secretary obviously sucks. I dont remember the exact words. But it conveyed the meaning that Pakistan is to be blamed for the attacks. I really din't like this part. It was immature. And then he said something about the investigation.

I don't see anything non-factual that the media had projected here. Even in the case of Maharashtra CM, his views had to be made public. After all he is the Chief Minister of the state.

Some of the channels did give conflicting details about the operation like the number of terrorists and the places they occupied(in the hotels).

That was about the tv media. It is the ****** story writers of some articles in cheap magazines(that do not even have enough coverage) that wrote irrelevant stories. I actually read some which I found were funny. But the major focus of all kinds of media, after the operation had been dedicated to banging the government for its failure apart from writing about whatever evidence the Indian investigators released.

And there were such chutiyaa opportunists like Rane who wanted to gain news coverage over the dead bodies.

But the saddest thing I see is that some writers in Pakistan would not even agree that a massacre had taken place and would float conspiracy theories about RAW and hindu terrorists. Hindu terrorists never reached such capability or such ferociousness. They have no reason to. And RAW, for one thing... no nation attacks its own citizens, tourism and business. Thats suicide.
And for the other thing which is relevant to many other events, RAW is grossly overestimated. It is severely faced with internal problems associated with a non-tranparent beaurocracy. I will quote an article or two about the decline of RAW. Somebody remind me later.

The Indian media did report of arrests of local people. And everybody knew that there was local help for the plot. 

On the other hand thanks this forum I got to know that there are some people floating theories about India's conspiracy. Not accepting what was being alleged of is one thing.
But blaming the victims saying they designed the plot themselves is the peak of cynicism.

And these people sitting some 1000 kms away from the scene were able to speculate that India designed the terror plot. 
http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/17034-zaid-hamid-mumbai-attacks-response-pakistani-media.html
May be such kind of views appeal to the uninformed. People should know better.

If atleast one Pakistani replies to this post saying the content of the above link is crap, I would be happy to see that there are people who talk sense in this forum. Atleast all people should acknowledge that the massacre happened. Thats a fact.

On a different note, I should mention that Dawn reported that a man from Faridkot claimed the captured terrorist is his son.


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## rubyjackass

Please add this to the above post

YouTube - BrassTacks: The Mumbai Drama-Real Untold Story Part5


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## blain2

Admittedly both sides talked up the jingoistic line. Goes to show the relative immaturity of the media (although most of the US media also falls within the same category) on both sides of the border.


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## Flintlock

*
Could Mumbai Attackers Have Europe in Their Sights?*
By Bruce Crumley/Paris Wednesday, Dec. 10, 2008

The Mumbai siege marked a dramatic and unexpected escalation of the terror campaign of the Pakistan-based jihadist outfit Laskhar e-Toiba (LeT)  and European counter-terrorism officials fear that escalation may eventually have dire consequences in the West. That's because *LeT is believed to be expanding its networks in Europe. *Although that activity has been limited, and largely confined to supporting the organization's efforts in South Asia, were the organization to raise its operational ambitions in Europe, it could present a terror threat on the continent as deadly as that of al-Qaeda.

*"Today, LeT is the hardest-core, export-minded jihadist group in south Asia  and probably anywhere in the world," says Jean-Louis Bruguière, formerly France's top terrorism investigator who now represents the E.U. on a bilateral Terrorist Finance Tracking Program in Washington.* *"We've already seen signs of it at work among Pakistani communities in the U.K., Spain and even France.* And there's evidence LeT has spread its influence with al-Qaeda-inspired extremists in Europe over the past two or three years."(See images of Mumbai picking up the pieces)

With Pakistan confirming LeT leader Zaki ur-Rehman Lakhvi was one of two men arrested Tuesday in connection with the Mumbai attacks  and the lone surviving assailant admitting his unit was trained and dispatched by the organization  security analysts have little doubt that LeT was behind the raid. But analyst opinion is divided over whether the audacity of the strike indicates a strategic expansion of LeT's jihadist ambitions, or simply an innovation in terror tactics. *Though LeT's methods in Mumbai raised the bar of death and destruction, some experts don't expect the group to expand its target range too far beyond its south Asia stronghold.*

"Lashkar has had only limited activity in Europe  mostly because its traditional focus has been on the so-called 'freeing' of Kashmir, meaning it has almost exclusively attacked India," notes a French anti-terror official who asked to remain anonymous, adding that even though the Mumbai targets included international tourism sites, the purpose of the strike was to deal a blow to India.* "The potential is there for Lashkar to transform itself into a leading force of international jihad, but I'm skeptical that it's already underway.* For the moment, the signs of it organizing or sponsoring attacks in Europe aren't anywhere as numerous as those involving radicals associated with al-Qaeda or its north African incarnations."

Still, even if they're currently eclipsed by the actions of other jihadist groups, militants associated with LeT are believed to have planned terror strikes in Europe. Last January, for example, *Spanish police arrested what was described as a cell of 14 Pakistani and Indian supporters of LeT, on evidence that the group had been planning a suicide strike in Barcelona. *British authorities, meanwhile, reported LeT links among some of the suspects arrested for purportedly plotting to blow up several trans-Atlantic flights using liquid explosives in August, 2006. French officials also believe that failed shoe-bomber Richard Reid had been housed and cared for by LeT sympathizers in Paris ahead of his thwarted December, 2001 attack.

Bruguière reveals that extensive insight into LeT was gained from the interrogation of Willie Brigitte, a French convert to radical Islam arrested in 2003 in Australia on a suspected mission to bomb Sydney's electricity grid. *Brigitte told investigators he'd been trained in LeT terror camps after seeking out the group in Pakistan once the U.S-led invasion of Afghanistan had closed al-Qaeda training camps that had once attracted aspiring jihadists living in the West. *Similarly, British radical Aabid Khan spent time in LeT training and indoctrination installations in Pakistan before his arrest in 2006, after flying into Manchester carrying jihadist propaganda, maps and surveillance information of potential targets in the U.S. Earlier this year, Khan was convicted by U.K. courts on terror-related charges.

Despite those instances of European radicals returning to the continent to plot actions at home, the cases of LeT-trained operatives setting up operations in Europe remain the exception, officials say. "Lashkar still tends to train recruits to inject them into their regional struggle," the French counter-terrorism official notes. "By contrast, al-Qaeda trained recruits to its Afghan camps for injection back into terror networks in the societies they came from."

Still, the official notes, Brigitte told interrogators that while training with LeT, he'd met with uniformed officers from Pakistan's ISI intelligence service. The ISI has long been accused of aiding and financing LeT as a proxy army to undermine India's possession of Kashmir; that link, the French official believes, has functioned as a restraint on the jihadist group."ISI sponsorship has meant Lashkar has had to accept limitations on its action, and contribute to global jihad via support and local partnerships with al-Qaeda in the region," the official says. "It would be very troubling if Lashkar managed to get off that leash."

Could Mumbai Attackers Have Europe in Their Sights? - TIME


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## dr.umer

*BBC criticised for refusing to call Mumbai gunmen terrorists​*
1 Dec 2008

**The BBC has been criticised for refusing to describe the perpetrators of the Bombay (Mumbai) massacre as terrorists.*​*
*The corporation has taken a policy decision to always refer to the gunmen in radio, television and online reports as militants despite reports linking the shooting to the Pakistani based terrorist group, Lashkar-e-Taiba. The group, whose name means Army of the Pious, is on the US watch list of terrorist organisations. *

It was established to fight against Indian rule in Kashmir and has past links to both Pakistani intelligence and al-Qaeda. L-e-T was founded in Afghanistan where it has said to have shared training camps with the Taliban and al-Qaeda. 

But the BBC said that it had decided, after much consideration, to carefully avoid the use of the word terrorist in volatile international situations such as the Bombay shootings, which left 174 dead and hundreds injured, because of the fear the meaning of the word could be lost in translation. 

Stephen Pound, the chairman of the Labour Party Friends of India Group, said: "This is the worst sort of mealy mouthed posturing. It is desperation to avoid causing offence which ultimately causes more offence to everyone. The terrorist term is universal. The result is innocent victims slaughtered in restaurants by men brandishing machine guns. They are terrorists and the BBC should call them that." 

*A BBC spokesman said: "This is nothing to do with political correctness. We are not calling them freedom fighters. We are call them bombers or militants. The fact is terrorist does not have a universal meaning. It translates as freedom fighters in certain languages. We are not alone in not calling them terrorists."* 

*"The word 'terrorist' is not banned from the BBC. BBC editorial guidelines are advisory but editors will exercise their own judgement on a case by case basis. The guidelines are aimed to support the BBC&#8217;s journalism not only in the UK but around the world and to cover a wide spectrum of global and political scenarios. They advise that we should report acts of terror quickly, accurately, fully and responsibly but that we should take care in the use of language that we use in our own scripts and reports. No one who has followed the BBC coverage of the attacks in Mumbai could be in any doubt of the full horror of last week&#8217;s atrocity."* 

He added: "We are implementing the same guidelines as a number of other major media organisations who also do not use the word terrorist. The BBC always reports other people using the word, such as politiicans or police chiefs." 

The BBC has reported other people describing the killers as terrorists. When on Sunday Rakesh Maria, India's joint Police Commissioner, said, "The terrorists were from a hard core group in the L-e-T", the BBC reported his comments in full. It also reported those of the Indian Prime Minister who criticised the "terrorist" attacks. 

L-e-T, which was founded in 1989, was banned in 2002 by Pervez Musharraf, the former military ruler of Pakistan, after pressure from the United States.


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## roadrunner

smeaglegolum said:


> But it seems you GoP doesn't want to live in denial like you, they are acting on the perpetrators and some of them are under arrest. There will be no smoke without fire.
> 
> Looks like your govt. is in lot of despair and losing the game heavily on diplomatic front. Fortunately, GoP doesn't have people who live in denial, and they had to take action and they are taking them and they know the consequences for not doing so, in your own defence minister words below



Pathetic argument. 

The whole world (or those with the most influence) also were against Iraq claiming it had WMD. It turned out to be incorrect. 

The GOP just today have asked for the evidence and stated they have not seen any. They have arrested the "militants" so they can be questioned, and presumably given a fair hearing. 

This is not proof of anything against Pakistan, or any proof that a Pakistani was involved in the Mumbai incident. 

The basis of the evidence so far is only word of mouth from India (which to me carries absolutely zero credibility given the history of blaming Pakistan incorrectly), and a set of journal reports that report on what amounts to be nothing more than rumour. The Qasab name does not appear on any Faridkot electoral roll. Period.

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## rubyjackass

chirkut said:


> First, we blame Indian media of pointing fingers at us and then we have this joker Zaid Hamid spewing his nonsense on TV One... Come on guys we can do better than this... How can you even stand this idiot?



Atleast one person who talks sense.


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## Peace Rocks~

For the full article please visit:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/08/world/asia/08terror.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

*Pakistans Spies Aided Group Tied to Mumbai Siege*
This article was reported by Eric Schmitt, Mark Mazzetti and Jane Perlez and written by Mr. Schmitt.

American officials say there is no hard evidence to link the spy service, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, to the Mumbai attacks. But the ISI has shared intelligence with Lashkar and provided protection for it, the officials said, and investigators are focusing on one Lashkar leader they believe is a main liaison with the spy service and a mastermind of the attacks.

Pakistani officials have denied any government connection to the siege on Nov. 26-29, in which nine gunmen and 163 other people were killed. A 
Pakistani official confirmed on Sunday that security forces had initiated an operation against at least one Lashkar camp.

*American and Indian officials believe that one senior Lashkar commander in particular, Zarrar Shah, is one of the groups primary liaisons to the ISI. Investigators in India are also examining whether Mr. Shah, a communications specialist, helped plan and carry out the attacks in Mumbai. Hes a central character in this plot, an American official said.*

Although Pakistans government officially banned Lashkar in 2002, American officials said that the group had maintained close ties since then to the Pakistani intelligence service. American spy agencies have documented regular meetings between the ISI and Lashkar operatives, in which the two organizations have shared intelligence about Indian operations in Kashmir.
It goes beyond information sharing to include some funding and training, said an American official who follows the group closely. And these are not rogue ISI elements. Whats going on is done in a fairly disciplined way. 

_Eric Schmitt and Mark Mazzetti reported from Washington, and Jane Perlez from Islamabad, Pakistan. Waqar Gillani contributed reporting from Lahore, Pakistan, and Margot Williams from New York.
_


----------



## Skywalker

Another conspiracy theory...all they want is to take control of ISI. Which they can only do that in their wet dreams. So keep dreaming.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## cortez

[Exerts from dawn.com dated 12/12/2008]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Crackdown hints at Faridkot-Mumbai link

Dawn Special Report

KARACHI, Dec 11: The targeting of Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jamaatud Dawa and the rounding up of the activists belonging to the two jihadi organisations appear to have been triggered by information originating in India following the capture of one of the 10 men who attacked several targets in Mumbai towards the end of last month.

During the course of Dawns own investigations last week our reporters were able to locate a family who claimed to be the kin of the arrested young man in Mumbai.

The sole survivor among the 10 attackers was named as Ajmal Kasab and was supposed to belong to the village Faridkot in the Punjab. Media organisations such as the BBC and now the British newspaper Observer have done reports trying to ascertain the veracity of claims appearing in the media that the young man had a home there.

On Friday last, the BBC reported unusual activity in Faridkot near Deepalpur. A BBC correspondent located a house in the village, the then inhabitants of which carried the surname of Kasab (or Qasab as the word is often spelt here). But the residents denied any link with either Ajmal or with any Amir Kasab, the name of Ajmals father as reported by some of the media.

At the weekend, the Observer in England claimed that it had managed to locate the house everyone was looking for so desperately. Its correspondent said he had got hold of the voters roll which had the names of Amir Kasab and his wife, identified as Noor, as well as the numbers on the identity cards the couple carried.

Even though the news stories by both BBC and the Observer made a mention of the LeT, some television channels in Pakistan suggested that a connection between Mumbai and Faridkot could not be established beyond a shadow of doubt.

However, the man who said he was Amir Kasab confirmed to Dawn that the young man whose face had been beamed over the media was his son.

For the next few minutes, the fifty-something man of medium build agonized over the reality that took time sinking in, amid sobs complaining about the raw deal the fate had given him and his family.

I was in denial for the first couple of days, saying to myself it could not have been my son, he told Dawn in the courtyard of his house in Faridkot, a village of about 2,500 people just a few kilometres from Deepalpur on the way to Kasur. Now I have accepted it.

This is the truth. I have seen the picture in the newspaper. This is my son Ajmal.

Variously addressed as Azam, Iman, Kamal and Kasav, the young man, apparently in his 20s, is being kept in custody at an undisclosed place in Mumbai.

Indian media reports based on intelligence sources said the man was said to be a former Faridkot resident who left home a frustrated teenager about four years ago and went to Lahore.

After his brush with crime and criminals in Lahore, he is said to have run into and joined a religious group during a visit to Rawalpindi.

Along with others, claimed the Indian media, he was trained in fighting. And after a crash course in navigation, said Amir Kasab, a father of three sons and two daughters, Ajmal disappeared from home four years ago.

He had asked me for new clothes on Eid that I couldnt provide him. He got angry and left.

While Amir was talking, Ajmals two sisters and a younger brother were lurking about. To Amirs right, on a nearby charpoy, sat their mother, wrapped in a chador and in a world of her own. Her trance was broken as the small picture of Ajmal lying in a Mumbai hospital was shown around. They appeared to have identified their son. The mother shrunk back in her chador but the father said he had no problem in talking about the subject.

Amir Kasab said he had settled in Faridkot after arriving from the nearby Haveli Lakha many years ago. He owned the house and made his earnings by selling pakoras in the streets of the village.

He modestly pointed to a hand-cart in one corner of the courtyard. This is all I have. I shifted back to the village after doing the same job in Lahore.

My eldest son, Afzal, is also back after a stint in Lahore. He is out working in the fields.

Faridkot is far from the urbanites idea of a remote village. It is located right off a busy road and bears all the characteristics of a lower-middle class locality in a big city.

It has two middle-level schools, one for girls and the other for boys which Ajmal attended as a young boy. For higher standards, the students have to enroll in schools in Deepalpur which is not as far off as the word remote tends to indicate.

It by no means qualifies as Punjabs backwaters, which makes the young Ajmals graduation to an international fearmonger even more difficult to understand. The area can do with cleaner streets and a better sewage system but the brick houses towards the side of the Kasur-Deepalpur road have a more organised look to them than is the case with most Pakistani villages.

The Observer newspaper reports that some locals seeking anonymity say the area is a hunting ground for the recruiters of LeT and provides the organisation with rich pickings.

The approach to Faridkot also points to at least some opportunities for those looking for a job. There are some factories in the surroundings, rice mills et al, interspersed with fertile land. But for the gravity of the situation, with its mellowed and welcoming ambience, the picture could be serene.

It is not and Amir Kasab repeats how little role he has had in the scheme since the day his son walked out on him. He calls the people who snatched Ajmal from him his enemies but has no clue who these enemies are. Asked why he didnt look for his son all this while, he counters: What could I do with the few resources that I had?

Otherwise quite forthcoming in his answers, Amir Kasab, a mild-mannered soul, is a bit agitated at the mention of the link between his sons actions and money. Indian media has claimed that Ajmals handlers had promised him that his family will be compensated with Rs150,000 (one and a half lakh) after the completion of the Mumbai mission.

I dont sell my sons, he retorts.

Journalists visiting Faridkot since Dawn reporters were at the village say the family has moved from their home and some relatives now live in the house. Perhaps fearing a media invasion, nobody is willing to say where the family has gone.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Epilogue:

At least now let us accept the fact that this zaid hamid guy is full of bullshit. Tough I am saddened by the fact that there are so many people who believe his words. It is important for us to be critical of any media reports, Indian or Pakistani. I recommend going through news reports from different countries get a realistic perspective. Google news could help one here.

But I must admit, I am impressed by the imagination power of zaid hamid. He is one of the greatest entertainers and I am becoming a big fan of this person.


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## Energon

Despite the pathetic nature of this thread, it actually makes me LOL.


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## Al-zakir

Pakistan News Service - PakTribune


Friday December 12, 2008 (1641 PST)

The Mumbai Massacre : Who? How? Why? 

« India has suffered a series of terror attacks in recent months but last night`s massacre  with a combination of grenades and automatic weapons  marks a new and deadly milestone in its continuing battle against extremists. Most of the attacks have been blamed on extremist Muslim groups but, in recent weeks, police have rounded up 10 members of what they say is its first Hindu terror cell. », The Independent, Andrew Buncombe in Delhi, Thursday, 27th November 2008. 

« With a traumatized nation and a paralyzed government, a core group of secular right-wing ideologues and Hindu nationalists are executing a soft coup in New Delhi to bring to power hawks who want to pursue Americas agenda of grooming India as a regional policeman, sort out Pakistan and confront China. India will self-destroy in the process. Indias military and intelligence has been penetrated. The man who uncovered the plot, Hemant Karkare, the antiterrorism chief of Mumbai police, was the first target of the mysterious terrorists. Patriotic Indians need to wake up and save their country. » Ahmad Quraishi, Saturday, 29 November 2008.

Acts of terror

There is no agreed definition of terrorism, but, according to the CIA, terrorism is the « premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience. » According to former US Attorney General, Ramsey Clark, his country (the USA) is « the greatest purveyor of violence in the world ». That same country finances the worse kind of terrorist acts, the extermination of a large part of the population in Palestine as well as carries out acts of barbarity against defenceless citizens in both Afghanistan and Iraq. The US officially has the greatest army of mercenaries in the world, Blackwater, with 140,000 contractors.

In recent history, people have witnessed terror against Native Americans, Aborigines, Maoris, Vietnamese, Indians of the sub-continent, Algerians and more. While the lands of the Aborigines, Maoris and Native Americans have been stolen, India became independent at the cost of partition giving birth to Pakistan and Bangladesh (formerly East Pakistan). But the world is still witnessing European terror through invasion of sovereign countries, such as Iraq and Afghanistan, and the murder of hundreds of thousands of their people. The terrorist occupation of Palestine by Jewish Europeans, the killings of her people, including women, children and babies have been going on for half a century !

For her part, India is still occupying Kashmir, which was part of Moghal Hindustan, against the will of the Kashmiris, and committing unspeakable acts of terror against them. It is also a common practice for States which perpetrate and sponsor acts of terrorism to organise false flag operations against their own people and allies in order to blame the enemies and rally support for their cause. Often, they are caught but they are above the law. For example, members of the Irgun Jewish terrorist movement dressed up as Palestinian army officers attacked the British HQ at King David Hotel in 1946 Palestine. During the six-day war in 1967, the Israelis attacked USS Liberty and murdered many US non-combatants in an attempt to blame it on Egypt and suck the Americans into the war. (Ref. Phil Tourney, survivor of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty). Apart from the official conspiracy theories, it has been demonstrated that the 9/11 terror attacks against the World Trade Centre (WTC) and the Pentagon in 2001 were an inside job with Israeli involvement. In January 2000, Indian intelligence detained 11 Muslim preachers on the ground of hijacking conspiracy, but they turned out to be Israeli nationals sent with false passports to infiltrate Muslim organisations in India and were released. Similarly, the five dancing Israelis arrested on 9/11 « as suspected conspirators » when they were celebrating the attacks against the WTC were all released. [Ref. The Record, New Jersey, 12 Sept 2001]. On 13 Sept 01, The New York Times reported that the group of five men (who turned out to be MOSSAD agents) had set up video cameras aimed at the Twin Towers prior to the attack.

The recent terror attacks against the Marriott Hotel in Pakistan on 20 Sept 2008 had the hallmark of a military operation and not that of Muslim terrorists! Similarly, the well planned and sophisticated attacks in Mumbai on 26/11 by attackers against various targets, including the Taj Mahal and Oberoi Hotels, killing around 200 people have immediately been blamed on Pakistan, Al-Qaeda and British Muslims. The Indian authorities say there were 12 such attackers, but many others escaped. 

There is no denying that the United States and Israel have been grooming India to become a regional superpower for their benefits. In so doing, they have to persuade India that she is a victim of terror herself, especially from her enemies in Pakistan, occupied Kashmir and Muslim extremists within India proper.

Lal Krishna Advani, former Deputy Prime Minister of India [2002-2004], former President of the nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), strong advocate of Hindutva (Hindu nationalism) and current Leader of the Opposition, met the heads of the MOSSAD when he visited Israel in June 2000 and advocated closer India-Israeli cooperation on all security matters. [Note : Israelis were responsible of security during both the 9/11 and 7/7 attacks!]. In the same year, The Times of India reported on the Israeli presence in India : « Israeli counter-terrorism experts are now touring Jammu and Kashmir and several other states in India at the invitation of Home Minister Lal Krishna Advani to make an assessment of New Delhi`s security needs. The Israeli team, headed by Eli Katzir of the Israel Counter-Terrorism Combat Unit, includes Israeli military intelligence officials and a senior police official. » India has forged a strategic alliance with Israel to perfect India s methods of occupation of Kashmir where all Indian atrocities, mass graves of Kashmiris, shootings of civilians, rape and human rights abuses are brushed under the carpet like the atrocities perpetrated against Palestinians.

Indias responsibility

The US have allowed India to set up military training camps in Afghanistan, and they are training, arming and financing rebels who are being sent to Pakistan to destabilise the government. The MOSSAD, Hamid Karzai and India are fuelling ethnic insurgency in South West Pakistan where China is building a strategic port. In addition, with her nuclear and military deals with the US and the launching of an Israeli satellite as the MOSSAD increases its control of India, India seems to pay lip service to her diverse peoples with a high risk of further partitions of India. Remember, it was India which financed and armed East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) to breakaway from then West Pakistan.  She also boasted the sinking of alleged pirate ships within Somali coastal waters (19 Nov 08) to help the US and pro-US Saudis. Given Indias behaviour, she should have been better prepared to prevent and deal with such attacks and not leave her people and visitors open to such risks. In this light, the Indian Home Minister Shivraj Patil and National Security Advisor M.K. Narayanan have submitted their resignations (Sunday, 30 Nov 08)

The blame game

The first reaction of the Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was to blame Pakistan. But witnesses suggested that the attackers « are probably members of an Indian militant group rather than foreigners » (The Independent, 27 Nov 08). It is also reported that the attacks were claimed by an unknown group called « Deccan Mujahideen » and the « Indian Mujahideen » from South India and trained in Bangladesh. Other suspects are a Kashmiri freedom group called Lashkar-e-Taiba held responsible for the bomb attacks on trains in 2006 and, of course, Al-Qaida which, apart from being a CIA-MOSSAD database, is a non-existant organisation. The Indian government asserted that some of the attackers were British-born Pakistanis from Leeds, Bradford and Hartlepool. It was also alleged that some have Malaysian and Mauritian links.

But, in spite of pointing his finger at Pakistan, in a telephone conversation with Pakistan PM Yousuf Raza Gilani on 28 Nov 08 PM Manmohan Singh urged Gilani to send his spy chief to share intelligence over the Mumbai attack. Pakistan has agreed to send a senior official to India. It does seem very strange that, even though there may be Pakistanis among the attackers, Pakistan would be responsible for such an attack after President Asif Ali Zardari recently told the Indian government that Pakistan would not be the one to resort to first use of nuclear weapons, an announcement welcomed by India. It seems more likely to be the work of external forces, with internal complicity, which do not want peace between those two sister countries and sister communities. The plan is clearly to provoke a war between India and Pakistan as Pakistanis want to detach themselves from US murdering ventures.

Hindutva

As reported by Andrew Buncombe in Delhi, The Independent Thursday, 27th November 2008, « most of the attacks have been blamed on extremist Muslim groups but, in recent weeks, police have rounded up 10 members of what they say is its first Hindu terror cell ». In early November 2008, the Mumbai Anti Terrorist Squad (ATS), headed by Hemant Karkare, arrested 10 Hindutva extremists, including Dayanand Pandey (a prominent religious leader of Uttar Pradesh) belonging to Sangh Parivar, an umbrella organisation comprising the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), Bajrang Dal, and the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, in connection with the 8 Sept 2006 Malegaon bomb blasts in a Muslim cemetery in Maharashtra killing dozens of Muslim pilgrims and injuring scores more. The ATS investigation has uncovered connections with the Israeli MOSSAD whose Indian home-grown agents have infiltrated many Hindu organisations in India, as well as connections between the Indian military and Hindu extremist groups. In the very early hours of the Mumbai attack on 26/11, the unknown terrorists eliminated Hemant Karare, Head of the ATS, along with Mumbai`s additional commissioner of police Ashok Kamte and high-level police officer Vijay Salaskar, The Times Of India reported. The killers must have had inside information as Indian security services have been infiltrated. One of the unknown terrorist caught on CCTV camera at the Chattrapati Shivaji railway station wore a sacred Hindu wristband. The victims included Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Jews, Indians, Britons, Americans and a Mauritian.

Conclusion

India has the strength to overcome this trauma. She must and she will take all necessary measures to prevent such carnage happening again on Indian soil and make all efforts to live in peace with her neighbours and resolve the issue of Kashmir peacefully. At the same time, India must look at the underlying causes of this serious problem and review her association with the perpetrators of terror and occupation around the world as well as the infiltration of terrorists into local organisations and her security services. India must return to her non-aligned philosophy, demand the removal of all terrorist occupiers from nearby countries and the closing of the terror base at Diego Garcia Mauritius. India must understand that she does not form part of the European West which is in quest of hegemony and world domination. If India allows herself to be recruited into this Axis of Evil, the destruction and further partitions of India seem inevitable. Indias security arrangements with Israel and the US may well be the source of her problems as they do not serve Indian interests.


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## Silverfalcon

@ Cortez

i find you far more entertaining.

and May God give Zaid Hamid the strength to keep on doing what he,s doing and never give up.
For the first time someone has told the Pakistani people about Christian, jew and Hindu zionists and their evil plans.


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## Silverfalcon

and post these things on your stupid Indian defence forums, This is Pakistan defence forum


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## metalfalcon

Skywalker said:


> Another conspiracy theory...all they want is to take control of ISI. Which they can only do that in their wet dreams. So keep dreaming.



Why its the ISI every time, It looks like ISI is larger than Life and PAK Army is not controlling the ISI on the contrary ISI is controlling PAK Army and Pakistan which is absolutely incorrect, ISI is under full control of the PAK Army and PAK Army is under full control of the civilian Govt.

MOSSAD, CIA, and RAW are trying their Level best to find a link between The terrorists and ISI so that ISI should also be Banned like JUD but it wont happen as you said as


> Which they can only do that in their wet dreams



ISI is the First Line of Defence for Pakistan and the enemies want to overcome this first BIG hurdle, A Great Pain in their ***.


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## Silverfalcon

Perfect Quote for the unreasonable Indians

Never reason with an unreasonable man , he will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.


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## cccp

Echo, you echoed right.
However Never believe China & US, after all US wants a presence in Asia, and China is afraid of being exposed to its enemy 
Ultimately, India & Pakistan whoever is the weaker will fall prey to either one of these .... 
So better resolve within neighbors than inviting foreigneers


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## BanglaBhoot

*Kashmiri views on militant group *

*The Kashmiri militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba is accused of links to attacks last month in the Indian city of Mumbai (Bombay) which left at least 170 people dead. Two BBC correspondents on either side of the Line of Control which divides the disputed territory find out what people think about the group and its activities.*
*
ALTAF HUSSAIN, SRINAGAR, INDIAN-ADMINISTERED KASHMIR*

Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) is a Pakistan-based militant group.

It joined the armed resistance against Indian rule in Kashmir in the early 1990s.

However, it gained prominence when it introduced "fidayeen" attacks in the predominantly Muslim Kashmir Valley about a decade ago.

A "fidayeen" attack is different from a suicide attack in as much as the attacker has a chance of coming back alive. 

The LeT has carried out a number of audacious attacks on Indian military installations in the state.

It was responsible for the attack on Delhi's Red Fort in 2000 and blamed for an attack on the Indian parliament the following year.

Analyst Tahir Mohiuddin says the Mumbai attacks do not have the imprint of the LeT. While he does not rule out their involvement, he says there is a lot of confusion.

"There have been reports that the attackers in Mumbai looked for American and British nationals besides Jews.

"This has not been the agenda of the LeT. For that matter they have dissociated themselves from the conflict between the government forces and the Taleban in north-western Pakistan," he said.

Ordinary people in Kashmir have expressed deep shock over the Mumbai attacks but they have diverse views as to who did it.

"Whatever happened in Mumbai was wrong. Innocent people have been killed. They were human beings like us," Mushtaq Ahmed, a government employee, said.

Adnan, a student, said that "many lives were lost and it should not have happened". He is worried that now Kashmiris staying in other states in India will be harassed.

"They will be labelled as militants. Those living as tenants will be subject to frequent investigations."

Javed Ahmed, a labourer, said that the Mumbai attacks could be the "handiwork of a hardline Hindu organisation".

He says there should be a thorough probe before anyone is blamed.

Noor-ul-Sajad, a lawyer, said the attacks might have been masterminded by political parties ahead of forthcoming elections in India. 

While views on who did it differ, there is general concern among Kashmiri people over the adverse impact the Mumbai attacks have had on relations between India and Pakistan.

Many fear an outbreak of war.

Others say that even if war is averted, the deterioration of relations between the two countries will badly impact on the process of dialogue to resolve the Kashmir dispute.

"The two neighbours were drawing closer but now they are again drifting apart," Noor-ul-Sajad said.

The editor of the leading newspaper, the Daily Etilaat, Khurshid Wani, says that "any souring of relations between the two countries will have a direct bearing on Kashmir - it will bring the ongoing dialogue process to a complete halt or at least slow it down".

Even the hardline separatist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani has, while lamenting "the carnage" in Mumbai, warned that war between the two neighbours would be a disaster for both.

People living in border areas in Kashmir are also worried that a renewed exchange of firing between the two armies across the Line of Control would make life hell for them again.

They have enjoyed a relatively peaceful life since India and Pakistan declared a ceasefire five years ago and now all that looks to be in jeopardy. 
*
ZULFIQAR ALI, MUZAFFARABAD, PAKISTANI-ADMINISTERED KASHMIR*

People here have also condemned the Mumbai attacks - but many remain to be convinced that Lashkar-e-Taiba was behind it. 

Sarfraz Mir - a doctor - described what happened as "an abominable act". But he cautioned that action against Lashkar by the Pakistani authorities without any evidence would also be an outrage.

"I just can pray that both governments can stop the blame game and continue talking to each other and find solutions to the issues between them once and for all," he said.

A teacher, Nazneen, described the attacks as "shocking".

"We condemn such attacks - innocent people died. But Indian accusations that Lashkar-e-Taiba was involved are not convincing," she said.

"We wonder as to how they reached hotels and how they brought weapons inside the hotel in the face of heavy security? Where were the Indian intelligence agencies?

"If anything happens anywhere in the world Muslims are always blamed."

Many like Nazneen feel that the Pakistani government should have not acted against Lashkar under pressure from the Indian or American governments.

They feel that it is giving the impression that it too acknowledges that Lashkar was involved in the attacks.

"If the government wanted to crack down against the militants groups it should have done so before," Nazneen said.

Businessman Shajah Ahmed argues that the Indian government has provided no evidence for its claims over Mumbai. 

"Lashkar's role in Kashmir is commendable; their Pakistani fighters gave their lives for the people of Kashmir; they fought alongside Kashmiri brothers", he said.

"But war and guns are no solution to the issues we face here and India and Pakistan should resolve the Kashmir issue through peaceful means," he added.

Like other members of the public, journalist Malick Tahir unstintingly condemns what happened in Mumbai.

"We don't know who the attackers were and what were their motives but one thing is clear - they are friends to none - India ,Pakistan or Kashmiris," he said.

"We pray that sense prevails between India and Pakistan and they don't let the attackers hijack the entire peace process.

"It would be a victory for the 95% of people who want peace in the region."

Abdul Waseen, who runs a private school in the Neelum Valley border district, said that if there was any evidence involving Lashkar-e-Taiba they should be banned and their people arrested.

"But in the longer term this is not the way to deal with militancy in Pakistan. For these people their livelihood depends on militancy," he said.

"They should be provided with alternate employment or other means of rehabilitation. This is a difficult task but this is the only solution - otherwise they will keep returning to militancy."

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Kashmiri views on militant group


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## Incredible India

He is my son, admits father of lone gunman arrested in Mumbai

Though Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jamaat-ud-Dawa
> may disown him, the father of the lone Pakistani gunman
> arrested for the Mumbai terror attacks has admitted that the
> young man whose picture was beamed by media across the
> world, is his son.

> Amir Kasab, the father of Ajmal Amir Iman alias Ajmal Kasab,
> broke down as he made the admission to the influential Dawn
> newspaper in the courtyard of his house in Faridkot, a village
> of about 2,500 people in Okara district of Punjab province.

> "I was in denial for the first couple of days, saying to myself
> it could not have been my son... Now I have accepted it.
> This is the truth. I have seen the picture in the newspaper.
> This is my son Ajmal," Amir said in his first interview to
> the media since his son's arrest.

> Britain's Observer newspaper and BBC had earlier reported
> that Iman belonged to Faridkot and had joined the
> Lashker-e-Taiba some time ago. 

He is my son, admits father of lone gunman arrested in Mumbai - Daylife


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## A1Kaid

Shocking Interview you MUST HEAR. Western Intelligence CIA, MOSSAD, and RAW agents are engaged in false flag operations (i.e. Mumbai 2008) to create trouble, trigger conflict, and ultimately to get Pakistan and India to attack one another and start *World War 3 by provoking two of the World's Nuclear Powers to go to War!!!* America wants to drag India into the War On Terror, and Israel wants India to attack Israel's mortal enemy Pakistan. *This is a very heavy and Geo-Political complex topic!!!*


*Time to get your EDUCATION!!!*

*Listen to the Interview.*

*Alex Jones interview with Gen. Hamid Gul pt.1*






*Alex Jones interview with Gen. Hamid Gul pt.2*






*Alex Jones interview with Gen. Hamid Gul pt.3*






*Alex Jones interview with Gen. Hamid Gul pt.4*





*Alex Jones interview with Gen. Hamid Gul pt.5*






*Alex Jones interview with Gen. Hamid Gul pt.6*


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## roadrunner

We've been through this before on another thread. You're simply clutching at straws.

There is no "Amir Qasab" in Faridkot. This was proven in the other thread. Now who Dawn met could have been anyone, since that person has since *surprise surprise* "disappeared". 

The Observer reported a "Muhammed Amir" to be the father of the Hindi speaking terrorist. The guy interviewed allegedly said his name was "Amir Qasab". The two reports do not add up. And since this alleged "Amir Qasab" has disappeared, noone can prove ot disprove this story. 

The Washington Times also sent a reporter and could not track down anyone by the name of "Qasab". 

You yourself can go to Faridkot and check for yourself, then write your own story in your own paper/journal. This would not be classed as proof or evidence of anything.


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## roadrunner

The "genome report" needs to be matched against a sample of people. A simple genome report on the individual won't prove anything.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## A1Kaid

bezerk86 said:


> Dude, i posted this yesterday. Why don't you look for it in the Multimedia section?



Well this thread we will actually discuss the highly complex Geo-Political maneuvers and actions being made in the region and world at wide. I did not know about your thread, hence your thread failed to get the attention of others, so what good does that serve. 


No more irrelevant comments please, MUST stick to this topic.

In Part .3 of the interview I think Gen. Hamid Gul mentioned something very interesting and thought provoking, he mentioned that, *can you imagine 10 guys in a pair of two small boats who swim from Karachi all the way to Mumbai, then go on to battle for 72 Hours against the Indian Special Forces and Police, with heavy ammunition.*..These things are a definite sign of a false flag and help from Western Intelligence Agencies who want to ignite War in the region....*War in South Asia, means employees at Lockheed Martin get to keep their jobs!!!*


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## Goodperson

solid snake said:


> This is the first time in my life that I've heard of any Pakistani connection with the separatism in China. Of course, since it's an Indian source, it cannot be trusted at all.



China's security chief warns to heighten vigilance after Bombay terror attacks
English_Xinhua 2008-12-12 00:36:15 
BEIJING, Dec. 11 (Xinhua) -- China is determined to learn lessons from recent terror attacks in India and will beef up anti-terror capacities to prevent and fight any terrorist activities, a senior official said here Thursday.

State Councilor and Minister of Public Security Meng Jianzhu said the country will keep high alert on potential threats, particularly from the Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM), which has been identified by the United Nations as a terrorist organization.

*Terrorist attacks in Bombay, India, again provided clear evidence that terrorist forces were still active in areas surrounding China, which made anti-terror situation very serious, Meng told a meeting of the national coordination team on anti-terror work.*

"We must fully estimate negative impacts possibly brought about by the incident (in India) and seriously learn lessons from it," said Meng, head of the team.

"We must heighten our vigilance against threats of ETIM, and further beef up our capacities in the fight against terrorism," he said.

Meng said China would further improve capabilities of its special anti-terror forces to deal with possible terror attacks.

He urged relevant departments to thoroughly check vulnerable spots in anti-terror work, such as the control of dangerous objects that could be used by terrorists.

He also said the public awareness on anti-terror work must be strengthened through intensive education activities at schools and in the entire society in order to prevent terrorist activities.

China's security chief warns to heighten vigilance after Bombay terror attacks_English_Xinhua


----------



## Flintlock

*Ajmal is a Pakistani: Geo TV*

Nirupama Subramanian
*
Gunman captured during Mumbai attack is my son: Amir
*

ISLAMABAD: *Geo News television is the latest to confirm that the lone gunman captured during the Mumbai carnage does indeed belong to a village in Pakistans Punjab province.*

*The channels 9 p.m. news report on Friday showed footage of people at Faridkot in Deepalpur tehsil, Okara district in south Punjab talking about Mohammad Ajmal Amir (Kasab) as a boy from the village who had last been seen four or five months ago.
**
He told his mother to give him her blessings as he was going for jihad, one old man told the Geo reporter.*

Another man said he had seen him playing with children outside a school on his last visit home, challenging them to catch hold of him. He was showing off some karate moves, the man said.

After days of dismissing Indian media reports on the Faridkot-Mumbai connection as unsubstantiated, and as a campaign to defame their country, the Pakistani media have started doing their own legwork on the allegations.

Earlier, Dawn newspaper managed to trace Ajmals father in Faridkot. The man who said he was Amir Kasab, confirmed to Dawn that the youth whose face had been beamed over the media was his son.

I was in denial for the first couple of days, saying to myself it could not have been my son, he told Dawn in the courtyard of his house in Faridkot, a village of about 2,500 people just a few kilometres from Deepalpur on the way to Kasur. Now I have accepted it.

The report, published in Fridays edition of the paper, was a confirmation of a report by The Observer last weekend. The London weekly tracked down Ajmals grandfather in Faridkot and managed to lay its hands on electoral records that showed his mother and father to be residents of the village.

PTI reports:

Amir, a father of three boys and two girls, said his son disappeared from home four years ago. He had asked me for new clothes on Eid that I couldnt give him. He got angry and left, he said. Reports said Ajmal went to Lahore in search of a job. After a brush with crime in that city, he reportedly joined the Lashkar-e-Taiba.

As Amir was talking to Dawns correspondents, Ajmals two sisters and a younger brother stood nearby. Their mother, wrapped in a chador, lay on a charpoy.

Her trance was broken as the small picture of Ajmal lying in a Mumbai hospital was shown around. They appeared to have identified their son. The mother shrunk back in her chador, but the father said he had no problem talking about the subject, the Dawn reported.

Amir said he settled in Faridkot after arriving from the nearby Haveli Lakha many years ago. He owned the house the family lived in and made a living selling pakoras on the streets of the village.

This is all I have, he said pointing to a handcart in one corner of the courtyard. I shifted back to the village after doing the same job in Lahore.

My eldest son, Afzal, is also back after a stint in Lahore. He is out working in the fields.

Amir said he had little say in Ajmals life since the day his son walked out on him. He calls the people who snatched Ajmal from him his enemies, but has no clue [to] who these enemies are.

Asked why he did not look for his son all this while, he said: What could I do with the few resources that I have?

Though mild-mannered, Amir became agitated at the mention of the link between his sons actions and money.

Media reports had said that Ajmals handlers had promised him that his family would be compensated with Rs.1,50,000 after the completion of the Mumbai mission. I dont sell my sons, Amir said.

The Hindu : Front Page : Ajmal is a Pakistani: Geo TV


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## Vinod2070

People are still clutching at any straw when it is proven beyond a shadow of doubt that he is from Faridkot.

His father has accepted that and people sitting thousands of miles are still living in denial!


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## neo_revo

Goodperson said:


> China's security chief warns to heighten vigilance after Bombay terror attacks
> English_Xinhua 2008-12-12 00:36:15
> BEIJING, Dec. 11 (Xinhua) -- China is determined to learn lessons from recent terror attacks in India and will beef up anti-terror capacities to prevent and fight any terrorist activities, a senior official said here Thursday.
> 
> State Councilor and Minister of Public Security Meng Jianzhu said the country will keep high alert on potential threats, particularly from the Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM), which has been identified by the United Nations as a terrorist organization.
> 
> *Terrorist attacks in Bombay, India, again provided clear evidence that terrorist forces were still active in areas surrounding China, which made anti-terror situation very serious, Meng told a meeting of the national coordination team on anti-terror work.*
> 
> "We must fully estimate negative impacts possibly brought about by the incident (in India) and seriously learn lessons from it," said Meng, head of the team.
> 
> "We must heighten our vigilance against threats of ETIM, and further beef up our capacities in the fight against terrorism," he said.
> 
> Meng said China would further improve capabilities of its special anti-terror forces to deal with possible terror attacks.
> 
> He urged relevant departments to thoroughly check vulnerable spots in anti-terror work, such as the control of dangerous objects that could be used by terrorists.
> 
> He also said the public awareness on anti-terror work must be strengthened through intensive education activities at schools and in the entire society in order to prevent terrorist activities.
> 
> China's security chief warns to heighten vigilance after Bombay terror attacks_English_Xinhua



That just means China will learn from this, and won't allow any Indian homegrown terrorists to sneak across the border and cause havoc. 

coughPurohitcough


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## neo_revo

LOL

Man is it just me or are Indian obsessed with Pakistan and Pakistani forums? It's like a kid trying so hard to be accepted. Anyone with dignity, would probably leave soon after being told off.

Alright i won't be mean. It's good to have some entertainment around..


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## solid snake

How can we be expected to believe anything that this terrorist confesses to? It is quite clear that much of what he says will be extracted under duress. That means the Indians can make him say anything they want.


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## Energon

solid snake said:


> How can we be expected to believe anything that this terrorist confesses to? It is quite clear that much of what he says will be extracted under duress. That means the Indians can make him say anything they want.


 Because there's an investigation that follows up on everything he says, and segments of the Pakistani media have also followed up on it. For instance, British sources tracked his parents down, but it was Pakistani journalists who followed up on it.


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## neo_revo

Does that mean Pakistani authorities will have access to him too? Maybe a DNA test to prove his connection to the family in Pakistan?


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## neo_revo

How is it "proven"? Why not allow Pakistani authorities access to him and do a DNA test to prove it. It's not difficult you know...

Personally i believe this "crackdown" was done to get USA off the back. Now the matter is settled, and India can't moan and groan about it. It kinda clears the air and will allow Pakistan to retaliate much more efficiently if India does something stupid like strike within Pakistan looking to "target" these bad bad people.


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## haviZsultan

Wow! 

Hes going on trial... Hows that truth serum working now? Will it make him speak aheemmm*... what indian authorities want him to speak?? 

I think Pakistan needs to help with the investigations and get this kalava wearing BJP dehshadgard's freinds in jail... dont you think? Mr Modi seems to be very happy with the blasts. He even was going to give compensation to Karkares widow killed by the hindu fanatics. How so very compassionate! 

Indians what do you say? I think Pakistanis should definately help in finding the perpetrators of this act and putting these hindu fanatics behind bars. U need our help don't you? We can show u faridkot in India too if u want...


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## Super Falcon

india never ever wanted the peace and i dont see that the will never want peace with pak even we r helping them by arresting still they are unhappy if they want war they come we are ready. and we make a new policy towards india to never go for a dilogue with india in future. and speak with them in table.


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## Goodperson

neo_revo said:


> How is it "proven"? Why not allow Pakistani authorities access to him and do a DNA test to prove it. It's not difficult you know...
> 
> Personally i believe this "crackdown" was done to get USA off the back. Now the matter is settled, and India can't moan and groan about it. It kinda clears the air and will allow Pakistan to retaliate much more efficiently if India does something stupid like strike within Pakistan looking to "target" these bad bad people.



Why should evidence be presented to Pakistan ? if the evidence is conclusive. India should rather share with rest of the world then to Pakistan as it needs to get rest of the people from the shared list.


----------



## neo_revo

Goodperson said:


> Why should evidence be presented to Pakistan ? if the evidence is conclusive. India should rather share with rest of the world then to Pakistan as it needs to get rest of the people from the shared list.



Fair enough. Share it with the rest of the world INCLUDING Pakistan. The accused should have as much right to the evidence as the accuser. 

I sure hope India adopts the same policy of "involve the world in solving issues" when it comes to Kashmir too.


----------



## Goodperson

neo_revo said:


> That just means China will learn from this, and won't allow any Indian homegrown terrorists to sneak across the border and cause havoc.
> 
> coughPurohitcough



This was probably the reason why China did not veto the UN resolution to ban JuD this time.


----------



## solid snake

Energon said:


> Because there's an investigation that follows up on everything he says, and segments of the Pakistani media have also followed up on it. For instance, British sources tracked his parents down, but it was Pakistani journalists who followed up on it.



Not very hard for RAW to pay off a bunch of poor people in some village to say that some kid was their son, when the media shows up.


----------



## third eye

roadrunner said:


> Pathetic argument.
> 
> The whole world (or those with the most influence) also were against Iraq claiming it had WMD. It turned out to be incorrect.
> 
> The GOP just today have asked for the evidence and stated they have not seen any. They have arrested the "militants" so they can be questioned, and presumably given a fair hearing.
> 
> This is not proof of anything against Pakistan, or any proof that a Pakistani was involved in the Mumbai incident.
> 
> The basis of the evidence so far is only word of mouth from India (*which to me carries absolutely zero credibility given the history of blaming Pakistan incorrectly)*, and a set of journal reports that report on what amounts to be nothing more than rumour. The Qasab name does not appear on any Faridkot electoral roll. Period.



Zero credibility of blaming Pak ??

Post 9/11 US & the world accepted what India maintained all along. Only they took cognizance when they were hit also. This resulted in the " bombed to the stone ages phone call" to Mush & his U Turn.

Now, again the accusations leveled by India are gradually proving correct. Notice how GOP is responding with " we can't fight the world" remarks now.

Pls don't take this amiss, but more than India,Pak is getting damaged . While others will recover, Pak will be hurt most. Changes must happen internally in Pak to control the fundamentalists.


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## third eye

neo_revo said:


> Does that mean Pakistani authorities will have access to him too? Maybe a DNA test to prove his connection to the family in Pakistan?



The stand of GOI is that to gain access to him, you have to accept he is yours. GOP therefore is in a bind... to be or not to be, is the question.


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## solid snake

Goodperson said:


> *Terrorist attacks in Bombay, India, again provided clear evidence that terrorist forces were still active in areas surrounding China, which made anti-terror situation very serious, Meng told a meeting of the national coordination team on anti-terror work.*



Uh hello? A terrorist attack occurred in Bombay and China said that terrorists are active in regions surrounding it. That doesn't mean its saying that terrorists from Pakistan are in China. It simply means terrorists are active in India and Pakistan.


----------



## neo_revo

third eye said:


> The stand of GOI is that to gain access to him, you have to accept he is yours. GOP therefore is in a bind... to be or not to be, is the question.



Then GOI better get its story straight. It's GOI saying he belongs to Pakistan. How are you gonna claim him to be Pakistani and when Pakistan wants access to him then say "First say he belongs to you"...

What kinda weird logic is that?


----------



## neo_revo

Goodperson said:


> This was probably the reason why China did not veto the UN resolution to ban JuD this time.



You sound hurt.


----------



## aimarraul

Goodperson said:


> This was probably the reason why China did not veto the UN resolution to ban JuD this time.



Since you india keep supporting DALAI-S*** against China,i see no reason why we should ban any anti-india&#30250;&#19977; forces.


----------



## BanglaBhoot

*Another view of Mumbai and the CIA/ISI *

This is the second interview this week with former head of the ISI of Pakistan, Lt.General Hamad Gul. The first was by CNN, and this interview addresses some of the omitted material as well as some of Alex Jones issues.

One can never know the truth: only piece together bits of the puzzle for clues as to the bigger picture. Thus one source, can provide a puzzle piece; but many sources (and perspectives) are much better if one is actually looking for truth. There will be contradictions and mysteries, perhaps never to be solved. The task before the seeker of truth is to sift through this mess and learn what can be learned with some intellectual integrity. It is in this spirit, I am posting this interview in full.

The interview is rather long but well worth the time. Many interesting points have been addressed here about perspectives we commoners are not often aware. Also the remarks are more spontaneous, than say a composed article. However, General Gul is quite candid about his bias. A good read.

*Alex Jones Interviews Lt. Gen. Hamid Gul
Full Transcript*

Prisonplanet.com
Friday 12th December, 2008

Alex Jones: Well, ladies & gentlemen, out of the gates, we have Gen. Hamid Gul, and of course he was the head of Pakistani intelligence ISI back in the 1980s, he went on CNN on Sunday night on one of their international programs and talked about the fact that he believed 9/11 was an inside job, and that the Mumbai attacks, formerly Bombay, were also an inside job.

As you know, we have detailed that that was a False Flag attack, carried out by western intelligence, clearly, in India, as a pretext to start World War III between the two nations. There were also calls, the Pakistani government said were officially made, confirmed with the phone records, from the Indian Foreign Ministry, saying we are going to attack you, attempting to trick the Pakistanis into launching some type of attack, and that almost happened.

So, for the next thirty minutes Im very honored to be joined by Gen. Hamid Gul, and General, joining us from Pakistan, thank you so much for coming on with us today.

Hamid Gul: You are welcome.

Alex Jones: Uh, just out of the gates, I was told by your son that you were not happy with the CNN interview, that they edited you. So, youve got the floor, sir. Were not going to edit you. You are live, so tell the world what is really going on.

Hamid Gul: Well, at the moment, we have to look at this human  great human tragedy that took place in Bombay. I sympathize with India; theyve been rocked very badly. And their response was a bit nervous. They want to go to war with Pakistan if Pakistan does not behave or does not hand over whoever they want from us. They have given a list of people.

But I think that there has been a long record of the Indians accusing Pakistan whenever something like this happens, and in the past they have turned out to be every time wrong. Of course Pakistan is willing to cooperate. And I think that is a very good position that President Zardari has taken, that you provide the evidence and we will try them out; we will arrest them we will put them to trial, and you can come and watch, see, and let the international cameras come and see. And there shall be a transparent, open trial, and if that does not satisfy you, then what else will?
 
So, this is the situation where we stand today: there is an ominous tack from India, and America seems to be partly patting them on the back, and asking Pakistan to do whatever India is demanding. Now this is an unfair position, because India is not like America. America demanded from Pakistan back in  after 9/11 to cooperate and hand over anybody that Pakistan could lay their hands on. Seven hundred or so people were caught in Pakistan, they were sent to Guantanamo Bay, to Baghram and to Kandahar jail. And nothing came out  Khalid Sheikh Mohammad was the only one who was tried in that case: all others have been let off.

So, to get innocent people like that, just because you accuse them, and you dont even provide the evidence, you pick them up and shove them in jails, this is not on [misses ]. I think that this belittles the values that particularly democracies uphold, and they talk so much about. And so I think that my son-in-law putted it good enough, and today Pakistan backed down on some of the defunct organizations  in fact these were banned in the year 2002, immediately after 9/11, but there could be some maverick elements among them who would still  I wont rule out, could carry out uhhh [bumper music begins in background] in  uh, on their own or in conjunction with some other forces [partic??] that kind of atrocities. But we have to wait and see, how it goes.

Alex Jones: OK, Mr.  uh, Mr. Gul, General Hamid Gul, please stay with us. Were gonna break and come back in a long segment, uh, plenty of time for you to break down whats going on, the serious tensions, uh being, un being risen due to what happened a few weeks ago in India. Please stay with us.

Alex Jones: Reading from Wikipedia, General Hamid Gul, served as director general of Pakistans Inter Service Intelligence, ISI, during 87-89, mainly in the time when Benazir Bhutto was Prime Minister of Pakistan. He was instrumental in the anti-Soviet support of the mujahideen in the Afghan War, 79 to 89, a pivotal time during the Cold War, and the estab   and it goes on. And we have him on line with us. We of course yesterday played the CNN, uh, TV interview that he did. This is live, and is not edited. Going back to him in Pakistan weve tried three different lines, this is the best one we have, we apologize our audio is not very loud to him, not very audible, and his back to us is very, very broken up. But we nevertheless have him joining us, were very thankful. 

Uh, sir, continuing, on the CNN program, at least what they edited you to say, you talked about 9/11, the evidence being that nine eleven was an inside job, and the attacks in Bombay, now Mumbai, of a few weeks ago, that the evidence was, it was an inside job. Can you go over the evidence that you believe that these were

False Flag events, sir, and why these False Flag events are being staged.

Hamid Gul: Are you talking about 9/11?

Alex Jones: Yes, sir.

Hamid Gul: Well, I have my own reasons, you know, Rod Nordland was the CNN reporter here, I think he was based in Islamabad at that time, and he came to me immediately after 9/11, and his version that, uh, that I put out, it was given to the Newsweek, and unfortunately it was blocked, but it appeared on the internet, on the website of the Newsweek. And you can see it, I think it is dated 16th or 17th of September, 2001. [Note: the article is Prejudice In Pakistan: Why Is Islamabad Reluctant To Pressure Neighboring Afghanistan Into Turning Over Osama Bin Laden?, by Rod Nordland, dated 9/14/2001].

And in that I had said the same thing, and I still maintain that thats my position. I have [seven??] reasons for it:

a. that 9/11 took place on the American soil, not a single person has been caught inside America, even though for doing such a job I think a huge amount of logistic support is required in the area where such operation is carried out.

b. Secondly, the air traffic control, when they saw the four aircraft were changing direction  going from east coast to west coast where they were headed, they started traveling in different directions. And it is quite amazing that for a very long period of time the air traffic control did not report this, nor did the US Air Force act in time. If, er, one were to calculate from the first flight, when it took off from Logan, till the first aircraft, and the solitary aircraft that took off was an F16 that took off from Langley, which is CIA headquarters, instead of one of the operational bases. So many of them are available in that area. And then a single aircraft never takes off, because we have been told that whenever the aircraft scramble they scramble in twos. And the time that it took was enormous. It took a hundred and twelve minutes! A hundred twelve minutes is a very long time in which to react. Was the US Air Force sleeping? And if it was sleeping, which heads will roll?

c. Second [NB: his third point] it was a huge intelligence failure, and no heads have been rolled, nobody has been taken to task, not a single person has resigned for this.

d. Thirdly, the air traffic control should have been rehashed, they should have been turned inside out, but nothing of the sort happened.

e. And finally, how come this is a coincidence that all transponders did not work, and it is not possible  and the direction is changed and it is not noticed?

f. Secondly, the US Air Force has the ability, because in the past whenever a plane has been hijacked, the record is that within seven minutes the US aircraft has been on the wing of the hijacked aircraft. In this case it  uh, it did not happen. The US alert system is so high, and it is so sophisticated, that if a missile were to take off from Moscow, and were to head toward New York, it takes about eighty minutes. And the US Air Force, and the missile systems, is supposed to intercept it within nine minutes  that means only Atlantic: around the Pacific it must stop that missile from coming in.

The system is in place, but it didnt work, and nobody tried to question this.

g. Lastly, no inquiry has so far been held formally into the incident, and the whole world has been turned upside down, so many people have been killed, the American economy is going into a meltdown, and everything is gone wrong with the world, and yet no formal inquiry has been ordered by the US government. So I really dont know. There are so many questions which hang in the balance. 

h. And then to top it all, they say that [Obama Hamodu??(Hani Hanjour)] took the training by light aircraft in the army for six months, he could have maneuvered a jumbo 745  uh, 757 from a height where it was traveling  that height was 9,000, and it came within seconds to a height of 1000, and then went straight into its target. Now this is not possible for a person who has been trained on a light aircraft to be able to do this. 

Alex Jones: Yes, sir.

Hamid Gul: And there is no mention of the second aircraft, and so there are a number of things which remain unanswered.

Alex Jones: Yes, sir.

Hamid Gul: Whenever the journalists come, and visit me here, and I ask them these questions, that why havent you taken the answers about this?, and they say that Patriotic Act comes in the way, and we are not supposed to ask that question.

Alex Jones: General  we are talking to General Hamid Gul, the former head of Pakistani ISI, during the key period of fighting the Russians, he was also, before he was the head of ISI, one of the chiefs according to our media, running operations against the Russians. And of course working with the United States closely, as well as the Saudi Arabians, and the British. Yknow, if thats incorrect, correct me.

Uh, General Gul, what are the motives? We have the PNAC, with Dick Cheney saying we need a Pearl Harbor event, we have 44,000 US troops massing in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan in the days before 9/11, we have Bush on September 10, Newsweek reported ordering the launch of attacks the next week, we have, of course, the buildings being blown up with explosives, and all of the witnesses to that, now the government admits that Building 7 did fall in freefall, was not hit by a plane  specifically, sir, motives. Why would the Military Industrial Complex controlling the United States, why would they stage a 9/11 attack?

Hamid Gul: Well, I think theres also the Cold War, when the  Reaganomics it was known as, the inflation was very high, and, domestic issues had to be addressed, but, uh, Bill Clinton, [two and hammose??] they really amassed a lot of money, American economy went booming, and he left a lot of money, and the  hard boys, Cold Warriors, when they came in they  they found that the situation was ready, they had money and they had resources, and they looked upon the conquest of the world, for which there was an opportunity window.

The Muslim world was lying prostrate, Russia was not still picking up from the  its foreign position, China was not ready yet, and therefore they looked upon it as an opportunity to go and do the [forming??]. And in this, I am a soldier, and I know that there has to be a single aim, but they mixed up the aims and they have botched up everything. First they said that they would go into such specific areas where there was no US presence before, as  such as the western Asia and South Asia  South Asia, where there was no American [???] present, and they wanted it there.

They had to keep the Chinese off from getting into the Middle East, they had to lay their hands on the energy tap of the world, which presently lies in the Middle East, but in future it will be in Central Asia, and so Afghanistan is the gateway to Central Asia, and finally to suppress any resistance, particularly which could threaten the state of Israel.

Now that is where they, instead of pursuing the American objectives, they started pursuing the Israeli objectives, and that is where they went wrong. You have to pick out a single aim, that is the first principle of war, and I dont know why the generals and the politicians of America, they could be so naïve and so ignorant, that they started mixing aims, and they went into this war, without a buildup, without particular preparation, and without the American support behind them.

Because if they had gone to war, and asked for the support of the American people, they would never given them their support. So they had to create a pretext, and this was the pretext that they created.

Alex Jones: General, were gonna break in a second, and come back for the final segment. Im hoping I can get you to stay a little longer, because I want you to speak unedited to the American people and the people of the world. I want to shift gears into Mumbai, what happened in India. Clearly the evidence of even the Indian intelligence chief, as you know, was saying that the Indian government was staging terror attacks on the train, an army captain was caught doing that and arrested, the chief of anti-terror was threatened, he was killed that day when it started in Mumbai, now they have caught an anti-terror police officer giving cell phones to the supposed terrorist that theyre saying came from Pakistan, we know the West is deeply in bed with some of the blocks of the former mujahideen, uh, can you speak to that?

General?

Hamid Gul: Can you hear me  I cant hear you properly, can you hear me all right?

Alex Jones: Yes, sir, I can hear you. When we come back, we will s¬  we will speak to what happened in India. Did you hear that?

Hamid Gul: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Alex Jones: Good. Why they are staging terror attacks there, the evidence of False Flag/Inside Job in India. So when we return after this quick break [music begins] with the former head of Pakistani intelligence, uh, General Hamid Gul, joining us from Pakistan. I am coming to you from Austin, Texas, hence the phone troubles. We will work on those, sir, during the break. My websites of course are InfoWars.com and PrisonPlanet.com.

Stay with us, well be right back with this exclusive interview.

[break]

[bumper music: Leonard Cohen 
Everybody knows the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows  the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
. . . .]


Alex Jones: We are back live. It is Dec. 9th, 2008. Gen. Hamid Gul, one of the most famous members of the  and commanders of Pakistani intelligence, who worked in  with the United States in the whole operation against the Russians  was the commander of those operations  is our guest, with us graciously until forty after.

Uh, General, uh, not wasting any more time, I listed earlier the fact that Indian intelligence captains in the army have been caught in India staging bombings. Thats Indian news. Uh, that Indian intelligence and police have been caught giving cell phones to the supposed shooters. The police stood down, and only the anti-terror commanders that had said that India was staging terror, they were killed in the initiation of the attacks in Mumbai. Thats some of the evidence of Mumbai being an inside job. Namely, why do you believe Mumbai is a staged event two weeks ago, (A), and (B), what is the motive?

Hamid Gul: Well, the motive is very simple, that, uh, Americans want India to come on board with them in their War Against Terror, especially when they run out of troops in Afghanistan. The NATO allies are pulling out, they are dragging their feet, they are not prepared to fight there, but they want to make it an Indian cause, and they want nearly 150,000 troops in Afghanistan.

That is one reason where there is an American motive. There is an Israeli motive, which is similar, that the Americans should not pull out of Afghanistan just because they are short of troops, so they must have more troops there. Because if they go away without denuclearizing Pakistan, the state of Israel will remain under perpetual danger. So they have an innate fear that Americans will lose heart and pull out of this region, theyre already going out of Iraq. And if they were to go out of Afghanistan, Israel  this will be an unfinished agenda, and Israel will be at the losing end.

So, the NeoCons and the Zionists, they together want to hatch a conspiracy so that Obama gets trapped into a situation where for next four years he keep on sorting out this embroglio.

As far as the ability is concerned, which is the other element, can you imagine that people traveling from Karachi in two rickety boats, they can travel all the way to Bombay and then go into action immediately and fight a battle for seventy-two hours, and there are just ten of them, and in each group there were two? This is impossible. They were carrying so much of munitions with them, and that, uh, that munition lasted till fighting withstood the  crack troops of India for so long.

And you know that in Nariman House, the five Jewish hostages, they were killed by the Indian commandos. They were not killed by these people. So why would the Indian commandos kill them? And Israelis suppressed this information. It initially came out in one of the Indian dail  eh, Israeli dailies, but then it was suppressed.

So if you go by the record of the Indian accusations against Pakistan, in the past ten years, uh, 2001 on December 13, there was an attack on the Indian Lok Sabha [lower house of Parliament], and they blamed Pakistan and Lashkar-e-Taiba for it, but it turned out that these were Indian Kashmiris themselves, and because India is causing so much atrocities in Kashmir, therefore theres a good reason for them that they would  carry out something like that.

Then the  again in 2006, there was the Samjhota Express case, in which 68 passengers, mostly Pakistanis were killed, and this train was stopped at an obscure railway station in Haryana, and then doors were locked and the train was set on fire, and again this was proclaimed that it was Pakistani Lashkar-e-Taiba, and they had done it because they wanted to derail the peace process. But, uh, Marshal Purohit, Shrikant Purohit has been caught in it, and there are other Indian officers who are, uh, or were his accomplices, and he has a big net worth  they  took the RDX from the Deolali depot, which is a military depot 


Alex Jones: the explosives 

Hamid Gul: so one can say there is a deep penetration of the militant Hindus in military and intelligence organizations in India.

So in this case, why would they not do that, because they want to again derail this process, and when Obama says that he will mediate on Kashmir, and there is a Kashmiri [music begins] political movement picking up momentum, and in this situation he says that he would, uh, send, uh, Bill Clinton as the mediator. Obviously the militants in India do not want this to happen and they had to preempt it.

So, Pakistan doesnt gain, Pakistani ISI doesnt gain anything from it. The next beneficiary is either the militant Hindu 

Alex Jones: Stay there, sir, we have to break.

Hamid Gul: who have their eye on the next election 

Alex Jones: we have to break 

[break]

Alex Jones: Well, ladies and gentlemen, a rare interview, extremely enlightening. Were talking to the former head of Pakistani intelligence, the ISI. I want to thank Paul Watson, who will be on the line. Hes gonna pop in with a question or two. I want to thank, uh, Simon over in the UK for getting us this number. Thank Aaron for staying up late last night to get the producing job done to get this interview right here on the GCN Radio Network. Uh, General, continuing with motive, I have the headline here, Pakistan Asserts Hoax War Call Was Real  Press Minister fingers Indian High Commission as source of reports that threatening call was fake. 

As you know this was in most of the Pakistani papers. The government has the caller ID and the phone records, that the threatening call, saying that India was going to attack within minutes of the terrorist attacks beginning in Mumbai a few weeks ago, this provocative call within minutes saying India was going to attack Pakistan, attempting to get Pakistan to move troops to the border and have a conflict, and the media saying possible war between the two thermonuclear powers was narrowly averted. Can you speak to that?

Hamid Gul: Yes, indeed. I think the Americans and the Indians both have been very responsible about it, because Condoleezza Rices statement in America and in India when she went and visited Delhi. They were very threatening towards Pakistan, and it was sort of a dictation that you have to satisfy India. Now this is amazing, that Pakistan has to satisfy India. On what score? Indians have still to come out with the evidence. And as far as this one man whom they have caught, who knows that this is not a bogey, and that this man was loitering around somewhere. Therere plenty of Pakistanis who crossed the border illegally or legally, and he could have been picked up, and hes become the front man for singing on those stories.

So one doesnt really know. Its too early to start threatening war against Pakistan because Pakistan is a nuclear country, and if they brandish their power, conventional power, then I can assure you that as a soldier I will say that conventional war, limited war, within the nuclear environment is not possible in the subcontinent.

And if it comes to an exchange of nuclear weapons, then this becomes a Third World War. China cannot stay out. Russia will not stay out. Russia is already showing its belligerence towards the  America and Europe. And China of course is a very major economic power. They are a nuclear power, and if this thing happens in their back yard they will not accept it.

So this is a very dangerous situation. I think it is playing with the fire. So the whole thing is getting  could get out of hand. It is again, as I told you that the part of the unfinished agenda that the NeoCons had in their mind. And they think back now, well, we carry it out, even though the Americans wanted a change.

But lets look at what change means. I mean Obama has not too very clearly enunciated what change would be. But one can assume that change means focusing on the domestic issues. There is an economic meltdown, the car industry is going sick, and many other things are happening inside America, the social welfare and the Medicare extra trust.

So as in all these things, there is a need for the new administration to focus entirely on the domestic issues 

Alex Jones: well, General 

Hamid Gul: and for that it will have to disengage externally.

Alex Jones: General  as you know, in the last three months, before Obama was even elected, he said Pakistan and Afghanistan would be his main focus. The strikes inside Pakistan  its clear that his change means what Zbigniew Brzezinski wants, shifting  uh, what the RAND Corporation has said they want, shifting the war out of the Middle East into Central Asia.

So I believe the change is gonna be these provocations. Look at the NeoCons, with Israeli and NATO-backed forces launching the sneak attack on the Russian held South Ossetia on 8/8/8. So it appears they are trying to launch a major  uh, larger than a theater war, as the RAND Corporation said a month ago, they want a major new war.

Hamid Gul: Yes, indeed youre right, because this is an old theory, [weet ul josaperry??] theory, first put out by MacKinder and then by Mahan, who was an admiral in the US Navy, that this is the rimland, youve got to first control the rimland in Asia before you can strike in the heartland of Asia. So this heartland/rimland thing, I think it tricked into the story 

Alex Jones: geopolitical

Hamid Gul: it tricked into the picture that, if they have a conflict in the rimland, and they can control it, then it becomes so much easier to go into the heartland. 

This is really asking too much when America is really not in a very healthy economic condition. So I think that this is brinkmanship of the highest order, and if they enlarge the area of conflict in this war against terrorism, and if they prolong the period of conflict, then America will definitely lose. 

Alex Jones: General 

Hamid Gul: Because I know that when you are fighting the [illevel of??] fighters, and then the area of conflict is enlarged, lets say you extend it into the tribal areas of Pakistan, or it is pushed into Kashmir as well, so the [canna??] can be monitored and watched quite easily, then the area will become larger and the US simply does not have the troops. And there is not a moral cause strong enough for the American people to be mobilized behind it.

Alex Jones: So thats why they staged

Hamid Gul: So I dont know  this is pure madness to be thinking of such things at this time.

Alex Jones: So thats why they need proxies like India to destabilize the region for the encirclement of Russia, and of course China, blocking those pipelines. 

Now, sir, in the time weve got left, you worked with the United States and Saudi Arabia, with Israel, or at least Pakistan did, fighting the Russian invasion. Uh, of course, if these reports are incorrect, correct me, but you were one of the main commanders helping the mujahideen. You were the head of Pakistani intelligence right at the time you had the victory against the Russians.

It is reported here that al-Qaeda was founded by the new Secretary of Defense Gates and Zbigniew Brzezinski, uh, or, or that they were the Wahabist fighting corps, and that they are now being used to try to bring down the Pakistani government and to try to stage attacks inside India. So can you speak with your particular expertise to that, and then, also the fact that they are now trying to list you as a terrorist, and then thirdly, did you ever meet Osama bin Laden? Is Osama bin Laden dead many years ago of kidney failure, as Benazir Bhutto said?

Hamid Gul: Well, uh, I was actually in charge of operations against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, and the Americans were providing the logistic support, and the Saudis were sharing one half of the budget for this war. And it was a cheap war because in all  there was uh ten years that we were fighting the Russians, we spent not more than five billion dollars out of the American exchequers. So it was a very cheap war for the Americans to have defeated the Russians and rid the whole of the West of this Red Menace that they used to call.

So, at that time, Osama bin Laden and his, uh colleagues, they were admired and romanticised by the CIA operators. I had never met him then. I had nothing to do with him, because I was only busy training the Afghans. We had to win a war, we had a task on our hands, it was a very big task, and we were so occupied with the training only the Afghans. No other nation was trained by the ISI. I can vouch on that. Not a single person, not even a Pakistani was trained by them.

Osama bin Laden was  you know, I  had never met him, but to the  these people used to come and talk glowingly about him. I met Osama bin Laden after my retirement from the army, in 1993 December in Khartoum, and then again in year, uh, 1994 November when I was went  I was there invited by a Hassan bin-Turabi to an international conference, and during that conference, Osama invited us to a banquet. And it was all in an open place, and, uh, where there were many other people present. I, uh, he struck me as a pretty normal human being, not the bloodthirsty animal that he is being presented by the CIA now.

At that time no conversation between him and me took place. I dont know whether hes living or dead. But so far Ayman  Ayman al-Zawahiri has been given  eh, representing him in various interviews of Osama that have been put out.

So one doesnt really know. But the last interview, which was a voice interview, in that the CIA and the other US intelligence agencies authenticated that it was Osamas voice. So one doesnt really know whether he is living or dead.

Alex Jones: Well, sir 

Hamid Gul: But even if he is not living, he is a symbol. Al-Qaeda is a franchise. Whoever created that, and for whatever reason they created, I think it wasnt there until 1996 when he was lodged in Khartoum. Later on he was 

Alex Jones: General 

Hamid Gul:  invited by [later Afghan President] Burhanuddin Rabbani, who is now part of the Northern Alliance in Kabul, and he came over and he set up his headquarters in a place called Tora Bora near Jalalabad. But, uhhh, thats where one started hearing of al-Qaeda and the activities

Alex Jones: Yes.

Hamid Gul: of Osama bin-Laden.

Alex Jones: General 

Hamid Gul: And also the fact that his commander was responsible for bringing the Blackhawk down in the fierce operation in Mogadishu where an American aircraft was brought down by a Stinger, which had probably been supplied in Afghanistan to Afghan mujahideen.

Alex Jones: OK, General 

Hamid Gul: Yes 

Alex Jones: General, I need to  in the time left here because weve only got a few minutes left with you here  uh, maybe five minutes and then were going to break and I dont want to keep you any longer  we can perhaps have you back in the future.

Specifically, though, we know his CIA control name was Tim Osman, we know he was the bagman for a lot of the Saudi money and the Israeli money going in, I know that was compartmentalized and separate from Pakistani intelligence, from what Ive read from different perspectives and US intelligence. 

So  so I believe you. My whole point here is  is that al-Qaeda  al-CIAda didnt carry out the attacks of 9/11 as you yourself have said. His first interview said that he didnt do it. Then they produced these computer-morphed videos and fake audios that have been checked. And the Intel Center, headed up by Rumsfelds former lieutenant, the private group was caught putting the same video layer in with the original video. So its been proven that theyre creating these fake videos.

Hamid Gul: There is no doubt about it, that this video which was put out in November by George Bush and  and said this was Osama bin-Laden and was high cheekboned like the mongoloid features, he wasnt as tall as Osama bin-Laden was. And one could clearly make out that this was doctored, and had been created on purpose to justify the attack on Afghanistan.

I think there are many things which are going wrong are being done on the behest of the government by the CIA which are not correct. The CIA used to be good when they were working with us. But I dont know what happened thereafter. I think it was overarching ambition.

Alex Jones: Well, sir 

Hamid Gul:  or it is the fear that America will lose its clout. Whatever is the reason. Or perhaps it is the Israeli fear that they are surrounded by a sea of hostile enemies, who could, if the Americans dont, uh, now at this point in time, the dont deliver a fatal blow to all their enemies, then Israel will have a short shelf life, otherwise also because it is an artificial state, that they would, uh, probably not exist, or they would 

Alex Jones: General 

Hamid Gul:  have  fi 

Alex Jones: General: as you know, in the time we have left, they have over four hundred nukes, they have total dominance, no one could attack them with nukes, they have the anti-missile defense systems. I believe its a red herring that they want to start World War III, uh, for their safety. Its World War III that will destroy Israel.

Hamid Gul: Yes, indeed, and I think this 2006 September experience, I think, if it is any indicator for them, when they 

Alex Jones: Hezbollah 

Hamid Gul:  went into southern Lebanon and they got such a buffeting at the hands of  of Hezbollah, I think theyll not do something like that, because it would mean annihilation of Israel. And in any case Palestinian question is a very thorny question, and I do not know why the US administration is not addressing it differently 

Alex Jones: OK

Hamid Gul:  instead of these two different states there should be one Abrahamic state of Palestine.

Alex Jones: General!

Hamid Gul: Because all of the three religions which claim that they are divine religions they have been origined in Palestine, and I think that something new has been  has to be thought about.

Alex Jones: All right 

Hamid Gul: But unfortunately Bush administration in its very [?????????] it said that they would sort out this Palestinian issue by creating two states. After eight years we have gotten nowhere at all!

Alex Jones: All right General, were almost out of time, two final questions, and Im gonna let you go, and you can  any websites, any books, any materials youd like to point people at to see your side of the story, wed love to see it. Two questions, let me give em both to you and then answer them, please:

#1  why are they trying to, now, list you as a terrorist, (A), when they admittedly worked with you (B) why do they always betray people like Saddam who they worked with and set up.

So (A) why are they trying to set you up, and (B) do you see the West staging more terror?

Hamid Gul: Yes, of  I think they are simply afraid of me because I worked with them, I understand them, I can measure them up and I talk loudly about it, I mak  mince no words, I pil  pull no punches, and they are afraid that I preempt whatever scheming they do. And I am  loud-voiced, there is no doubt about it. And I speak the truth, they are trying to frame me, there is no truth in it. If they had anything about me when I applied for a renewal of my VISA to America why did they not give it to me? Because if they have something, they are looking around for terrorists, while this terrorist wants to come over and visit America, nab me, interrogate me, take me to bar, take me to court, do whatever you like. It only shows that they have a mala fide.

As far as Saddam is concerned, it is a habit, it is a very bad habit. They cultivate friends who become, like Pervez Musharraf, dictators, and then they make use of them, and then they turn upon them and then infect [?] the nation because of their policies.

And, what was the last part of your question?

Alex Jones: All right, Im gonna do a s 

Hamid Gul: was it in India/Pakistan relations?

Alex Jones: Sir, hold on one moment, General. John 

Hamid Gul: Ju 

Alex Jones: Ge  hold on, General  uh, General, hold on one moment because weve only got a few minutes left. John, skip this network break. For stations: Im skipping, cause Ime gonna let him go in three minutes. I dont want to hold him any longer, but Im skipping this break, because this is too newsworthy. 

Yes sir, Id like you to answer that question, uh, about what do you think, knowing them, working with the globalists, the New World Order, in the past, when it was still America, before we were totally dominated, what do you think their next moves are probably  uh, most probable, (A).

And then, finally, the attacks against the government in Pakistan, uh, using Muslim fronts. Does that appear to be the West trying to destabilize your government? They keep trying to kill the government, they killed Bhutto, they keep bombing government buildings, they keep bombing hotels, it appears the West is using false mujahideen to try to overthrow Pakistan.

Hamid Gul: No, Benazir was not killed by any of the terrorists. She was removed by the Americans, because she had violated her agreement, because they wanted to keep Pervez Musharraf there, and he slapped another [mustel???] on Pakistan. So she had become rebellious, and such a person, who is a popular leader of a third world country, the head of the largest political party, a woman whom they could not attack as fundamentalist because she was so westernized, therefore it was very important for them to remove her, because they have a mischievous plan which they want to put through. 

So, they have installed instead Mr. Zardari, whom they can blackmail very easily, but they have allowed him to keep the powers of a dictator. And in fact hes the one whos calling all the shots in Pakistan, so as Pakistan is already completely destabilized politically.

Our po  um, uh be  judicial institution simply does not exist, because the judicial crisis recently dethroned Chief Justice of Pakistan 

Alex Jones: Yes  who is staging the terror attacks, because theyre clearly aimed at the government, or is that the government staging them as a pretext to crack down 

Hamid Gul: No, no, no  this is because it  [Lombostit???] was attacked, and I think that George Bush addressed his nation on radio immediately after that, said this was part of our plan in War Against Terrorism, because Pakistan army and Inter Services Intelligence were not fully cooperating, and because they did not consider it was their war, therefore they created this situation, where the terrorists out of sheer revenge  this is called Pakhtunwali. This is a tradition which has nothing to do with Islam. It is the Afghans holding to this tradition long before they became Muslim, and they are still carrying it on. When you take action against an Afghan, kill his daughter or his wife or his sister, he will take revenge no doubt what happens. He does not behave like a Muslim, or any other entity.

So this was a thing which was created. And of course Pakistan is now in a very difficult position. We only have a military which can control the institutions. And we have an ISI, but the Americans are almost every day attacking the ISI and attacking the military, saying this is not under the control of the political parties.

Alex Jones: Sir 

Hamid Gul: political powers.

Alex Jones: Sir  General 

Hamid Gul: But what is political power, when Parliament is sinecure? It does not work, it has no authority at all.

Alex Jones: General, going back to 9/11, Pakistani papers, BBC reported, New York Times reported, $100,000 was reportedly wired by Gen. Mahmood Ahmed, the head of Pakistani intelligence to the lead hijacker, who we know was a US government decoy, trained at US bases, thats Newsweek, AP, Reuters. General Mahmood Ahmed, do you believe he was really controlled by the CIA, did he wire $100,000 to Mohammed Atta?

Hamid Gul: Not at all. Mahmood is a friend of mine. I met him very recently in Lahore, and he categorically denies this. I think this is all disinformation, which has been adopted as a very sophisticated intelligence art.

Alex Jones: So, just to be clear, were gonna let you go, were very thankful and respectful of your time, uh, you believe that the bombings and shootings and terror attacks that weve seen in the last few months in Pakistan are because the Predator drones and helicopters are killing weddings  you always notice its a wedding  thats meant to stir up the people there, because it kills whole families, its a huge insult, and then of course they blow up NATO cars, of course they then attack the government. Is that what youre saying?

Hamid Gul: It is retaliatory, and they will retaliate. I can tell you that Afghanistan nation is a fact that over 5,000 years, nobody has won against them, and I think that Americans cannot win, unless American intention is to stir up a Third World War at this point I think theres no point in staying in Afghanistan. You should negotiate with the opposition. This is a national resistance now. It is no longer Taleban. Specific, it is the Afghan nation.

I approve of their position. They are resisting ferociously.

Alex Jones: General, how long can the Mayor of Kabul stay in power, and isnt this really just about the West controlling the opium?

Hamid Gul: Well, hes the puppet of Kabul, and he will not stay very long. I can assure you that, eh, hes already started showing signs of nervousness. He wants to reach out to the Taleban, but Taleban wont  eh, even throw a crumb at him. I can assure you the Taleban, or, any other resistance fighters, they will have nothing to do with 

Alex Jones: Well, Reuters is reporting, as you know, every major city is now encircled, and only a few cities are controlled by the US force. 

Hamid Gul: I  I have no idea, but I think the Right is started coming out, like Robert Kagans article in the Washington Post on December 2nd, it, eh, echoes what is the [CFR] World At Risk Report. Uh, it is similar. They are focusing on Pakistan, because Pakistans nuclear capability is undigestible by State of Israel, and by India, therefore there is 

Alex Jones: All right 

Hamid Gul: every possibility that Pakistan becomes a target.

Alex Jones: In closing  in closing, and this is it, and we appreciate all your time  this hours over, two minutes, sir, I know you cant predict the future, but do you see them staging a nuke attack? Do you see them staging more terror attacks? Do you see India sneak attacking? Uh, do you see a more radical government coming in after the staged events? What do you see happening, bad case scenario?

Hamid Gul: No, Indians are not so stupid. I think they are seeing thru the game, and these far Leftist parties, that is the Left Front, they are called, the Communist party of India, are very strong. India is slowly turning tthe world of its own problems. The Shine India, Shining India, Feel-good India, this is all make believe. I can tell you that this is a propaganda hype. I can tell you that India is in a miserable state. Their economy is dwindling. And four hundred millions are living on less that one dollar a day.

And this is beginning to have an effect because last year alone 108,000 farmers in India committed suicide. And this will not go on. Out of 608 districts in India, 231 are already in turmoil, and mostly under the control of Maoists and the Bhakti-lite.

Alex Jones: So they are collapsing?

Hamid Gul: Yes. So India itself has lots of problems of their own. 

Alex Jones: Youre right. The GMO cotton made em commit suicide, cause it destroyed their lives.

Well, General, General Hamid Gul, thank you so much for joining us. Any websites, any books, any materials you think people should read to learn more?

Hamid Gul: Thank you.

Alex Jones: Uh, any websites, any books, any materials you think people should read to learn more?

Hamid Gul: Oh, I dont have a website, unfortunately, but I think you have a website. You can read all my talk.

Alex Jones: Absolutely. Well post the audio and a transcript at InfoWars.com. Let me say bye to you, as this hour ends, as we go to break, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, well be back with the second hour. Again I want to thank Gen. Hamid Gul. Uh, an amazing exclusive, folks, unedited live.


----------



## voiceofaa

THE Indian response to the Mumbai tragedy has been unwise and hasty. In less than 24 hours of the ghastly terror that struck Mumbai, India started blaming Pakistan. The entire effort of the Indian authorities is focused incriminating Pakistan. 

Some western media reports have now begun to criticise India for its unwillingness to confront its own failings. The Spanish daily El Pais has written: &#8220;Islamic extremism has its roots also in India. But it has always been trivialised by the Indian authorities&#8221;. 

Interestingly, the Indian authorities name the accused first and investigate later. More recently, two serving officers of the Indian army, Col Srikant Purohit and Maj Samir Kulkarni, are facing trial for involvement in the Samjhota Express bombing in 2007, and another five, including a majorgeneral and two colonels, are under investigation. 

On Nov 26 within half an hour of the start of the terrorist attack in Mumbai, three senior police officers, Hemant Karkare, DIG Ashok Kamte and Vijay Salaskar, who were investigating Col Purohit&#8217;s case, were shot at by some one from behind and killed, as if it was pre-planned. 

The Mumbai police were equipped with bolt-action Lee Enfield rifles, used in the First World War, and they expected to stop terrorists using assault rifles. Hence, during the first encounter with terrorists, 14 policemen died. 

When it was clear that the Mumbai police were out of their depth, Delhi dispatched its best soldiers, the NSG&#8217;s Black Cat commandos, who were equipped with clumsy old SLR rifles. It took them nine hours to make it to Mumbai when over 100 people were al ready killed in the Taj Hotel. 

According to private rescue group &#8216;Zaka&#8217; from Israel that flew &#8216;on its own volition&#8217; to Mumbai for a rescue operation after the deadly terror attacks, the Indian commandos inadvertently killed some of the Jewish Israeli hostages during the raid on Chabad House (Dec 3). 

American intelligence agencies had warned their Indian counterpart in mid-October of a potential attack &#8220;from the sea against hotels and business centres in Mumbai, including the Taj Hotel&#8221;. Ratan Tata, chaiman of the Taj Hotel told CNN that security was temporarily increased following a warning but enhanced measures were later eased (Dec 3). But why didn&#8217;t the American and Indian intelligence agencies share this information with Pakistani intelligence remains a question mark? 

According to an Indian navy spokesman, about two dozen terrorists had landed in Mumbai after travelling in a merchant vessel, the MV Alpha, from Karachi, and the Indian navy intercepted the vessel (Nov 28). The Indian media also spoke of RAW&#8217;s intelligence intercept of Nov 17, which showed a mysterious Pakistani ship heading for Mumbai. 

Interestingly, the alleged Pakistani ship managed to penetrate through Indian waters amid an ongoing naval drill which had mobilised a large section of the Indian navy. The exercise, code-named &#8216;Defence of Gujarat&#8217;, was aimed at stopping &#8216;Al Qaeda and Pakistani ships&#8217; and yet at the height of the exercise the Pakistani ship sneaked through with its deadly cargo. This is an unbelievable proposition.The Indian claim that the surviving member of the attacking force said he worked for Lashker-i-Taiba and was trained in Pakistan is an unreliable evidence: someone willing to die for a cause would be willing to lie for that cause, even under torture. 

Although there is no solid evidence, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, during her unscheduled visit to Islamabad on Dec 4, delivered a stern warning by saying that Pakistan has &#8216;special responsibility&#8217; &#8212; a phrase when removed from its thin diplomatic veneer suggests Washington shares New Delhi&#8217;s view that the terrorists have links with Pakistan. However, within a week the truth began to unfold with the arrest of two Indians in Kolkata having links in Mumbai terror attacks. But it is only the beginning. 

(II) PLEASE tell India that we are not convinced by its charade that the Mumbai terror attacks were orchestrated by the people in Pakistan. When they accuse Pakistan, its people have a right of access to the information privy to the Indian government. 

There is total lack of transparency in this absurd plan that the terrorists landed on the coast of Mumbai in small boats from a mother ship that was anchored outside Mumbai without the Indian coast guards getting so much as an inkling of it? 

This is a gargantuan security failure that India should be more concerned about as compared to the terrorist attack; because if such things are possible, then no citizen of India is safe from even worse things to come. 

Secondly, one of the attackers captured by the Indian security forces was found carrying a GPRS mobile through which he made a call to an individual in Karachi. Nothing could be more preposterous and far from reality than this incredulous claim, because even the most na&#239;ve of terrorists knows that once he goes into an attack inside enemy territory there is no coming back. 

He either achieves his mission or he dies in the attempt or worse still fall into enemy hands. Would he then be so stupid as to leave behind an obvious clue as to his place of origin? Any commando would tell you that once they go for a mission they sever all ties and leave no telltale signs as to who they are and where they come from. So what was the point of making contact with base? 

Moreover, India claims that they were a Jihadi outfit; if that were so, why was it that not a single one had a beard. If they were to shave off their beards in order to camouflage their identity, it would defeat the very purpose of a Jihad. If India is really interested in exposing the true criminals they should divulge the contact number of the person whom the terrorist contacted, so that the government of Pakistan can go after them and bring the criminals to justice. 

Thirdly, what was the aim of this terrorist attack? Was it just to kill 195 people? Or was it just to destroy Taj Mahal hotel? There must be a raison d&#8217;etre behind the attack. How did the attackers know which street led to Taj Mahal hotel and which to Obroi? 

If, according to the Indians and the Americans, the attack was very well planned and executed, then either these terrorists had been to India or their agent in India provided them with maps showing their landing point and the route to be taken to their des tination. 

Supposing all this had been done, then a person carrying ammunition for his weapons, grenades, bombs, food, water and a horde of other basic requirements, along with his AK-47, wouldn&#8217;t he be spotted by the locals and the traffic police and alarm bells sounded? 

Finally, the terrorists reach their destination, and then what do they do? They start killing people randomly till the commandos arrive followed by the army to put an end to their miserable lives. So in the end, after two days of mayhem all the terrorists are killed except one, and the whole sordid affair is brought to an end without the terrorists achieving any purpose, or declaring a cause for sacrificing their lives. 

Everyone is perplexed, who were they and what was their purpose? One of them was purportedly captured so that he could conveniently spill the beans and point an accusing finger at Pakistan. 

A country so poor that it begs for money and has lost its respect in the eyes of the world, so as the saying goes, &#8220;give a dog a bad name&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8221; I would like someone to tell India that we are not convinced. Yes, we do want peace in the region but with respect. These faceless and stateless killers are not one of us. You may be able to convince Condoleezza Rice, because America is hand in glove with India in their attempt to destabilise Pakistan and cut it to size, but will China allow this to happen in its neighbourhood? However, India and America must be told that we have the will to fight and survive; and survive we will come what may.


----------



## GunMan

voiceofaa said:


> THE Indian response to the Mumbai tragedy has been unwise and hasty. In less than 24 hours of the ghastly terror that struck Mumbai, India started blaming Pakistan. The entire effort of the Indian authorities is focused incriminating Pakistan.
> 
> Some western media reports have now begun to criticise India for its unwillingness to confront its own failings. The Spanish daily El Pais has written: &#8220;Islamic extremism has its roots also in India. But it has always been trivialised by the Indian authorities&#8221;.
> 
> Interestingly, the Indian authorities name the accused first and investigate later. More recently, two serving officers of the Indian army, Col Srikant Purohit and Maj Samir Kulkarni, are facing trial for involvement in the Samjhota Express bombing in 2007, and another five, including a majorgeneral and two colonels, are under investigation.
> 
> On Nov 26 within half an hour of the start of the terrorist attack in Mumbai, three senior police officers, Hemant Karkare, DIG Ashok Kamte and Vijay Salaskar, who were investigating Col Purohit&#8217;s case, were shot at by some one from behind and killed, as if it was pre-planned.
> 
> The Mumbai police were equipped with bolt-action Lee Enfield rifles, used in the First World War, and they expected to stop terrorists using assault rifles. Hence, during the first encounter with terrorists, 14 policemen died.
> 
> When it was clear that the Mumbai police were out of their depth, Delhi dispatched its best soldiers, the NSG&#8217;s Black Cat commandos, who were equipped with clumsy old SLR rifles. It took them nine hours to make it to Mumbai when over 100 people were al ready killed in the Taj Hotel.
> 
> According to private rescue group &#8216;Zaka&#8217; from Israel that flew &#8216;on its own volition&#8217; to Mumbai for a rescue operation after the deadly terror attacks, the Indian commandos inadvertently killed some of the Jewish Israeli hostages during the raid on Chabad House (Dec 3).
> 
> American intelligence agencies had warned their Indian counterpart in mid-October of a potential attack &#8220;from the sea against hotels and business centres in Mumbai, including the Taj Hotel&#8221;. Ratan Tata, chaiman of the Taj Hotel told CNN that security was temporarily increased following a warning but enhanced measures were later eased (Dec 3). But why didn&#8217;t the American and Indian intelligence agencies share this information with Pakistani intelligence remains a question mark?
> 
> According to an Indian navy spokesman, about two dozen terrorists had landed in Mumbai after travelling in a merchant vessel, the MV Alpha, from Karachi, and the Indian navy intercepted the vessel (Nov 28). The Indian media also spoke of RAW&#8217;s intelligence intercept of Nov 17, which showed a mysterious Pakistani ship heading for Mumbai.
> 
> Interestingly, the alleged Pakistani ship managed to penetrate through Indian waters amid an ongoing naval drill which had mobilised a large section of the Indian navy. The exercise, code-named &#8216;Defence of Gujarat&#8217;, was aimed at stopping &#8216;Al Qaeda and Pakistani ships&#8217; and yet at the height of the exercise the Pakistani ship sneaked through with its deadly cargo. This is an unbelievable proposition.The Indian claim that the surviving member of the attacking force said he worked for Lashker-i-Taiba and was trained in Pakistan is an unreliable evidence: someone willing to die for a cause would be willing to lie for that cause, even under torture.
> 
> Although there is no solid evidence, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, during her unscheduled visit to Islamabad on Dec 4, delivered a stern warning by saying that Pakistan has &#8216;special responsibility&#8217; &#8212; a phrase when removed from its thin diplomatic veneer suggests Washington shares New Delhi&#8217;s view that the terrorists have links with Pakistan. However, within a week the truth began to unfold with the arrest of two Indians in Kolkata having links in Mumbai terror attacks. But it is only the beginning. SQN LDR (r) S. AUSAF HUSAIN Karachi (II) PLEASE tell India that we are not convinced by its charade that the Mumbai terror attacks were orchestrated by the people in Pakistan. When they accuse Pakistan, its people have a right of access to the information privy to the Indian government.
> 
> There is total lack of transparency in this absurd plan that the terrorists landed on the coast of Mumbai in small boats from a mother ship that was anchored outside Mumbai without the Indian coast guards getting so much as an inkling of it?
> 
> This is a gargantuan security failure that India should be more concerned about as compared to the terrorist attack; because if such things are possible, then no citizen of India is safe from even worse things to come.
> 
> Secondly, one of the attackers captured by the Indian security forces was found carrying a GPRS mobile through which he made a call to an individual in Karachi. Nothing could be more preposterous and far from reality than this incredulous claim, because even the most na&#239;ve of terrorists knows that once he goes into an attack inside enemy territory there is no coming back.
> 
> He either achieves his mission or he dies in the attempt or worse still fall into enemy hands. Would he then be so stupid as to leave behind an obvious clue as to his place of origin? Any commando would tell you that once they go for a mission they sever all ties and leave no telltale signs as to who they are and where they come from. So what was the point of making contact with base?
> 
> Moreover, India claims that they were a Jihadi outfit; if that were so, why was it that not a single one had a beard. If they were to shave off their beards in order to camouflage their identity, it would defeat the very purpose of a Jihad. If India is really interested in exposing the true criminals they should divulge the contact number of the person whom the terrorist contacted, so that the government of Pakistan can go after them and bring the criminals to justice.
> 
> Thirdly, what was the aim of this terrorist attack? Was it just to kill 195 people? Or was it just to destroy Taj Mahal hotel? There must be a raison d&#8217;etre behind the attack. How did the attackers know which street led to Taj Mahal hotel and which to Obroi?
> 
> If, according to the Indians and the Americans, the attack was very well planned and executed, then either these terrorists had been to India or their agent in India provided them with maps showing their landing point and the route to be taken to their des tination.
> 
> Supposing all this had been done, then a person carrying ammunition for his weapons, grenades, bombs, food, water and a horde of other basic requirements, along with his AK-47, wouldn&#8217;t he be spotted by the locals and the traffic police and alarm bells sounded?
> 
> Finally, the terrorists reach their destination, and then what do they do? They start killing people randomly till the commandos arrive followed by the army to put an end to their miserable lives. So in the end, after two days of mayhem all the terrorists are killed except one, and the whole sordid affair is brought to an end without the terrorists achieving any purpose, or declaring a cause for sacrificing their lives.
> 
> Everyone is perplexed, who were they and what was their purpose? One of them was purportedly captured so that he could conveniently spill the beans and point an accusing finger at Pakistan.
> 
> A country so poor that it begs for money and has lost its respect in the eyes of the world, so as the saying goes, &#8220;give a dog a bad name&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8221; I would like someone to tell India that we are not convinced. Yes, we do want peace in the region but with respect. These faceless and stateless killers are not one of us. You may be able to convince Condoleezza Rice, because America is hand in glove with India in their attempt to destabilise Pakistan and cut it to size, but will China allow this to happen in its neighbourhood? However, India and America must be told that we have the will to fight and survive; and survive we will come what may.



'Our operation was not about 10 terrorists, it was all about saving lives'
Mumbai Joint Commissioner of Police Rakesh Maria [Images], the lead investigator in the attacks case, in his first interview on the acts of terror. Exclusive to rediff.com 

just visit rediff.com get real story from people who knows..


----------



## voiceofaa

GunMan said:


> 'Our operation was not about 10 terrorists, it was all about saving lives'
> Mumbai Joint Commissioner of Police Rakesh Maria [Images], the lead investigator in the attacks case, in his first interview on the acts of terror. Exclusive to rediff.com
> 
> just visit rediff.com get real story from people who knows..



10 Terrorists, manage to capture 600+rooms taj and almost same size hotel oberoi at the same time, and manage to retain it for 72 hours with heavy fire all around, against World's 3rd largest Army.

This is great really, whoever they're , salute to them, Indian Army should learn from them atleast how to fight with your enemy


----------



## Flintlock

*China, Pakistan and India*

Posted by: Myra MacDonald

According to Pakistani newspaper the Daily Times, Pakistans decision to crack down on the Jammat-ud-Dawa, the charity linked to the Laskhar-e-Taiba, came as the result of pressure from China. Jammat-ud-Dawa was blacklisted by a UN Security Council committee this week.

The Daily Times noted that earlier attempts to target the Jamaat-ud-Dawa at the Security Council had been vetoed by China. It is the Chinese message that has changed our mind. The Chinese did not veto the banning of Dawa on Wednesday, and they had reportedly told Islamabad as much beforehand, compelling our permanent representative at the UN to assert that Pakistan would accept the ban if it came, the newspaper said. One subliminal message was also given to Chief Minister Punjab, Mr Shehbaz Sharif, during his recent visit to China, and the message was that Pakistan had to seek peace with India or face change of policy in Beijing. Once again, it is our friend China whose advice has been well taken

This is intriguing, all the more so given how much attention has has been focused on what the United States has been doing to lean on Pakistan to curb militant groups blamed by India for the attacks on Mumbai. So what has been going on? Has China, with its growing economic power, become a pivotal player in global diplomacy even as the United States continues to hog the limelight?

Weve always known that China has had a major role in South Asia. But in the past it was a seen as the ultimate all-weather ally of Pakistan, to be used if necessary against India, with which it has vied for influence in Asia and against which it fought a border war in 1962. Is this call for peace an example of it taking on a U.S.-style role of regional policeman, as I discussed in a post back in June about India, Pakistan and China?

The Times of India quotes Shashi Tharoor as saying that there was a feeling in China that its opposition to India on the issue of terrorism would no longer be compatible with its being seen as a responsible player in the system.

The Asia Times Online, in a report datelined Bangalore, put Chinas decision to support the crackdown on Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD) in a more pragmatic context. An official in Indias Ministry of External Affairs (MEA), who spoke to Asia Times Online on condition of anonymity, said that in the wake of the international outrage triggered by the Mumbai attacks, the Pakistan government realized that whether or not the UN body designated JuD as terrorist, it would be compelled by the US to act against the group, it said. In the circumstances, it felt it would be better to be seen to be acting under UN orders rather than pressure from India or the US. Hence the Pakistan-China decision to go along with the other Security Council members this time, it quoted the MEA official as saying.

Personally, I dont really understand what is going on in the India-Pakistan-China equation (largely because I dont know much about China). So instead, Ive drawn up a list of questions on which Id appreciate comments and which I aim to address in subsequent posts:

1) Has China decided that given its growing stake in the global economy, it has a greater interest in encouraging peace between India and Pakistan?

2) Has it become as important, or more important, a player in South Asia than the United States?

3) If it is aiming now to become an even-handed arbiter between India and Pakistan, why are there still so many problems along the Indian-Chinese border?

4) Why, if China was such a reliable friend of Pakistan, did it refuse to bail out its economy and leave the civilian government there with no option but to turn to the IMF?

5) What do we make of the fact that Pakistan Army chief General Ashfaq Kayani made his first visit to China, while President Asif Ali Zardari went to the United States?

6) What is the long-term gameplan? And what does this mean for South Asia and the rest of the world?

Are there other questions out there that need to be asked?

Pakistan: Now or Never? Blog Archive China, Pakistan and India | Blogs |


----------



## roadrunner

third eye said:


> Zero credibility of blaming Pak ??
> 
> Post 9/11 US & the world accepted what India maintained all along. Only they took cognizance when they were hit also. This resulted in the " bombed to the stone ages phone call" to Mush & his U Turn.
> 
> Now, again the accusations leveled by India are gradually proving correct. Notice how GOP is responding with " we can't fight the world" remarks now.
> 
> Pls don't take this amiss, but more than India,Pak is getting damaged . While others will recover, Pak will be hurt most. Changes must happen internally in Pak to control the fundamentalists.



You being right, and the US wrong on something is not a big deal. The USA lost a lot of credibility in the intelligence data it was giving regarding Iraq. Notice how a lot of Americans even bring up Iraq when their intel suggests something for the public to swallow. 

And RAW has already accused Pakistan and LeT falsely. With the train bombings by Purohit, the Gujarat train bombing also. The Indian intel pointed to Pakistan, and guess what, it was all FALSE. That is why RAW has zero credibility in not only my eyes, but also the eyes of anyone who follows news in the Indo-Pak subcontinent. You'll need solid evidence, and to provide it.


----------



## Goodperson

solid snake said:


> Uh hello? A terrorist attack occurred in Bombay and China said that terrorists are active in regions surrounding it. That doesn't mean its saying that terrorists from Pakistan are in China. It simply means terrorists are active in India and Pakistan.



India did not need to inform China about Mumbai terror the matter is hot there is plenty of information available.
India only had to apprise about terror faced by China on its borders. That seemed to have worked and you see the result. China did change its historic stand.

This I think is a clever move by India, It put China and rest of the world against Pakistan, This made Pakistani leadership feel vulnerable. They had little or no friends left to vouch for them. Pakistan leadership made statement for domestic consumption but took opposite actions.
India understands this may not work for long as no leadership in Pakistan can survive without taking anti India stand.


----------



## Goodperson

aimarraul said:


> Since you india keep supporting DALAI-S*** against China,i see no reason why we should ban any anti-india&#30250;&#19977; forces.



Does not reflect in the stance taken by China at UN for JuD ban.


----------



## Goodperson

neo_revo said:


> You sound hurt.



This only signifies you ran out of arguments.


----------



## Najam Khan

voiceofaa said:


> 10 Terrorists, manage to capture 600+rooms taj and almost same size hotel oberoi at the same time, and manage to retain it for 72 hours with heavy fire all around, against World's 3rd largest Army.
> 
> This is great really, whoever they're , salute to them, Indian Army should learn from them atleast how to fight with your enemy



It looks too funny to hear these facts.For sure after this incident Indians special forces have earned a big name by killing 9 men who captured 600+rooms...


----------



## Neo

*India pressed to share Mumbai evidence with rival ​*
NEW DELHI  In the days after the deadly Mumbai attacks, India demanded that Pakistan crack down on militants, shutter charities linked to extremists and jail suspected plotters.

*With a flurry of raids, Pakistan took many of those steps this week. Now it's up to India to do what it likes least: share intelligence with its archrival about what it knows and how it knows it.*

Keeping the alleged plotters in jail will require unprecedented investigative cooperation across a border mined with distrust and suspicion, and the onus has shifted to India.

Pakistani authorities say they will prosecute in their own courts anyone linked to the three-day siege in Mumbai that left 164 dead  they just need the proof.

*"Our own investigations cannot proceed beyond a certain point without provision of credible information and evidence," said Pakistan's Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi.*

*But Indian Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee said it was too early to share any of what investigators say is ironclad evidence tying the attacks to Pakistani soil.* According to India, the 10 gunmen were from Pakistan, as were the handlers, masterminds, weapons, training camps and financing.

"Whatever evidence we have, we can make available," Mukherjee told Indian news channel CNN-IBN in an interview to be broadcast Sunday. "We are also investigating. We have not come to any conclusion. Therefore, at this juncture, perhaps it would be premature to share the evidence."

It remains uncertain how much evidence, if any, India will actually provide.

India finds itself in the awkward position of having to investigate terrorist attacks hand-in-hand with its longtime nemesis. The two countries have fought three wars against each other since independence. Despite a peace process that began in 2004, tensions remain high.

"India grits its teeth and says 'They don't have to like us, we don't have to like them but ... we have to go through the process,'" said C. Uday Bhaskar, a prominent defense analyst in New Delhi.

Their tense relations were evident Saturday as Islamabad said Indian aircraft violated Pakistani airspace  crossing into Pakistan-controlled Kashmir and over the eastern city of Lahore  before being chased back over the border.

India's air force has told Islamabad the incursion was "inadvertent," Pakistan Information Minister Sherry Rehman said. Indian officials could not immediately be reached for comment.

Much of India's information comes from Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, the lone captured gunman. Through repeated interrogations, he has said he was trained by Lashkar-e-Taiba, a banned Pakistan-based militant group, and revealed key details such as names of fellow plotters and locations of camps.

Islamabad has refused to even acknowledge Kasab is Pakistani, complaining it has had to rely on news reports for information.

Most recently, a Pakistani newspaper, Dawn, tracked down Kasab's family in the village of Faridkot  his hometown according to Indian investigators  and said the suspect's father had identified his son from photographs of the gunmen.

*Pakistan has taken action in recent days, closing 65 offices of a charity linked to militants, putting the charity's prominent founder under house arrest and arresting senior Lashkar leaders, including the attacks' suspected mastermind.*

But Mukherjee said India was still not satisfied, and he wanted Pakistan to ensure banned groups don't "reappear in their new name with the new signboards but with the same old faces."

Pakistan outlawed Lashkar in 2002 under pressure from the United States, but many say the group resurfaced under the umbrella of Jamaat-ud-Dawa, a charity group the United Nations this week labeled a terrorist outfit. Pakistan began shutting the group's offices late Thursday and ordered its assets frozen. 

India has traced previous terrorist attacks back to Pakistan, but animosity and distrust at the time ruined any hopes for cooperation. 

After the 1993 Mumbai blasts that killed 257, India provided evidence of Pakistani complicity  which Islamabad rejected as "fabricated," said Bhaskar. 

*"Pakistan has never accepted culpability of its own people or handed over anyone," he said. *

This time may be different. 

For starters, evidence collected by India from Kasab, as well as recovered phones and forensic evidence, may be too strong to dismiss, analysts say. 

The siege also stands out because 26 foreigners were killed, which has brought investigative help from other countries and international pressure that makes it harder for Islamabad to avoid taking real action. 

But India's probe also includes intelligence apparently gleaned through top-secret eavesdropping against Pakistan, which authorities will be loath to share. 

In September, India's foreign intelligence agency intercepted telephone conversations apparently coming out of Pakistan that discussed possible attacks against Mumbai hotels, according to a government official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive matter. 

India will almost certainly not disclose details of its espionage work to Pakistan, the program's main target. 

While Indian investigators have raised possible links between the militants and Pakistan's spy service, Mukherjee has been very careful not to accuse Pakistan's government of complicity in the siege. 

"That is why, repeatedly, I said 'elements from Pakistan'" were responsible for the attacks, he said. "That is a phrase I have used meticulously. I would not like to be more specific unless definitive conclusion is arrived at by the investigating agencies."


----------



## roadrunner

voiceofaa said:


> Secondly, one of the attackers captured by the Indian security forces was found carrying a GPRS mobile through which he made a call to an individual in Karachi. Nothing could be more preposterous and far from reality than this incredulous claim, because even the most na&#239;ve of terrorists knows that once he goes into an attack inside enemy territory there is no coming back.
> 
> He either achieves his mission or he dies in the attempt or worse still fall into enemy hands. Would he then be so stupid as to leave behind an obvious clue as to his place of origin? Any commando would tell you that once they go for a mission they sever all ties and leave no telltale signs as to who they are and where they come from. So what was the point of making contact with base?



No no, dear sir, you see the Hindi speaking, Kalava wearing terrorist was trained in a terrorist training camp, fattened up into a gargantuan lard *** trained to eat food and comb his hair everyday, that totally changed his physique from a thin poor dahi wallah merchant's son, into a big fat lump of wobbling jelly. They did not teach him about satellite phone usage, and he just decided to handily leave a clue in the form of a fotuitous call to Karachi, and then leave the very same phone handily on the trawler for investigators, complete with a list of LeT contacts


----------



## rubyjackass

voiceofaa said:


> 10 Terrorists, manage to capture 600+rooms taj and almost same size hotel oberoi at the same time, and manage to retain it for 72 hours with heavy fire all around, against World's 3rd largest Army.
> 
> This is great really, whoever they're , salute to them, Indian Army should learn from them atleast how to fight with your enemy



What do you know about such operations?
They could have brought down the hotel complex in minutes. The objective was to save any people and avoid more loss to the building.


----------



## Kharian_Beast

rubyjackass said:


> The objective was to save any people and avoid more loss to the building.



The objective was to implicate Pakistan by allowing for as much destruction as possible also with the targeting of specific foreigners while delaying and fumbling any sort of quick rescue effort. Getting rid of troublesome police officials who were hot on the trail of of Hindu terror cells was also a major objective. Another objective was to leave an evidence trail longer than the Great Wall of China...If these terrorists were the crack hardcore operatives that India says they were (probably referring to RAW), why would they be leaving behind implicating material such as phones, identification cards, fingerprints, etc? How can one be a complete jackass yet fend off Indian special forces for half a week without much food or material?

I have seen the name of this supposed group change about 2 dozen times now, starting with Daccan Mujahideen all the way down to ISI and JuD. This is a typical Indian scam, and I know what an Indian scam looks like from much experience.


----------



## must7

garibnawaz said:


> Dont trust their toilet and caste related news as well.



We all fully agree .. in Indian toilet, caste, rape & molestation cases the press is not neutral .. they like in the case of Pakistan are never neutral in writing the truth !


----------



## Awesome

The Associated Press: India pressed to share Mumbai evidence with rival



> By SAM DOLNICK  9 hours ago
> NEW DELHI (AP)  In the days after the deadly Mumbai attacks, India demanded that Pakistan crack down on militants, shutter charities linked to extremists and jail suspected plotters.
> With a flurry of raids, Pakistan took many of those steps this week. Now it's up to India to do what it likes least: share intelligence with its archrival about what it knows and how it knows it.
> Keeping the alleged plotters in jail will require unprecedented investigative cooperation across a border mined with distrust and suspicion, and the onus has shifted to India.
> Pakistani authorities say they will prosecute in their own courts anyone linked to the three-day siege in Mumbai that left 164 dead  they just need the proof.
> "Our own investigations cannot proceed beyond a certain point without provision of credible information and evidence," said Pakistan's Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi.
> But Indian Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee said it was too early to share any of what investigators say is ironclad evidence tying the attacks to Pakistani soil. According to India, the 10 gunmen were from Pakistan, as were the handlers, masterminds, weapons, training camps and financing.
> "Whatever evidence we have, we can make available," Mukherjee told Indian news channel CNN-IBN in an interview to be broadcast Sunday. "We are also investigating. We have not come to any conclusion. Therefore, at this juncture, perhaps it would be premature to share the evidence."
> It remains uncertain how much evidence, if any, India will actually provide.
> India finds itself in the awkward position of having to investigate terrorist attacks hand-in-hand with its longtime nemesis. The two countries have fought three wars against each other since independence. Despite a peace process that began in 2004, tensions remain high.
> "India grits its teeth and says 'They don't have to like us, we don't have to like them but ... we have to go through the process,'" said C. Uday Bhaskar, a prominent defense analyst in New Delhi.
> Their tense relations were evident Saturday as Islamabad said Indian aircraft violated Pakistani airspace  crossing into Pakistan-controlled Kashmir and over the eastern city of Lahore  before being chased back over the border.
> India's air force has told Islamabad the incursion was "inadvertent," Pakistan Information Minister Sherry Rehman said. Indian air force spokesman Mahesh Upasani later denied there had been any violation of Pakistani airspace.
> Much of India's information about the Mumbai attack comes from Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, the lone captured gunman. Through repeated interrogations, he has said he was trained by Lashkar-e-Taiba, a banned Pakistan-based militant group, and revealed key details such as names of fellow plotters and locations of camps.
> Islamabad has refused to even acknowledge Kasab is Pakistani, complaining it has had to rely on news reports for information.
> Most recently, a Pakistani newspaper, Dawn, tracked down Kasab's family in the village of Faridkot  his hometown according to Indian investigators  and said the suspect's father had identified his son from photographs of the gunmen.
> Pakistan has taken action in recent days, closing 65 offices of a charity linked to militants, putting the charity's prominent founder under house arrest and arresting senior Lashkar leaders, including the attacks' suspected mastermind.
> But Mukherjee said India was still not satisfied, and he wanted Pakistan to ensure banned groups don't "reappear in their new name with the new signboards but with the same old faces."
> Pakistan outlawed Lashkar in 2002 under pressure from the United States, but many say the group resurfaced under the umbrella of Jamaat-ud-Dawa, a charity group the United Nations this week labeled a terrorist outfit. Pakistan began shutting the group's offices late Thursday and ordered its assets frozen.
> India has traced previous terrorist attacks back to Pakistan, but animosity and distrust at the time ruined any hopes for cooperation.
> After the 1993 Mumbai blasts that killed 257, India provided evidence of Pakistani complicity  which Islamabad rejected as "fabricated," said Bhaskar.
> "Pakistan has never accepted culpability of its own people or handed over anyone," he said.
> This time may be different.
> For starters, evidence collected by India from Kasab, as well as recovered phones and forensic evidence, may be too strong to dismiss, analysts say.
> The siege also stands out because 26 foreigners were killed, which has brought investigative help from other countries and international pressure that makes it harder for Islamabad to avoid taking real action.
> But India's probe also includes intelligence apparently gleaned through top-secret eavesdropping against Pakistan, which authorities will be loath to share.
> In September, India's foreign intelligence agency intercepted telephone conversations apparently coming out of Pakistan that discussed possible attacks against Mumbai hotels, according to a government official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive matter.
> India will almost certainly not disclose details of its espionage work to Pakistan, the program's main target.
> While Indian investigators have raised possible links between the militants and Pakistan's spy service, Mukherjee has been very careful not to accuse Pakistan's government of complicity in the siege.
> "That is why, repeatedly, I said 'elements from Pakistan'" were responsible for the attacks, he said. "That is a phrase I have used meticulously. I would not like to be more specific unless definitive conclusion is arrived at by the investigating agencies."


----------



## voiceofaa

rubyjackass said:


> What do you know about such operations?
> They could have brought down the hotel complex in minutes. The objective was to save any people and avoid more loss to the building.



600+room hotel, and a five star, for me it should have more then 300 entry/exit points from where they can attack those terrorists, and they were 10, in comparison with Indian forces who were in numbers.

Don't live in fools paradise budds.


----------



## yarmook

Robin234 said:


> Do you work in a 5 star Hotel ?
> 
> There can never be 300/exit or entry points ,Usually their is one /two entry/exit point for visitors and One/ two entry /exit for back area(for staff) and yes ,First job was to evacuate the people who were trapped inside the hotel .



And at one or two entry and exit points or doors, the gunmen with heavy bags full of explosive and weapons were not checked at all?


----------



## voiceofaa

Robin234 said:


> Do you work in a 5 star Hotel ?
> 
> There can never be 300/exit or entry points ,Usually their is one /two entry/exit point for visitors and One/ two entry /exit for back area(for staff) and yes ,First job was to evacuate the people who were trapped inside the hotel .



lol.

Can i ask why an average boeing plane has 6 exits ? 

Man ......as per international Standard of Hotel industry, for every 50 individuals, one exit point is necessary, and in Taj's case, where covered area is more then the height, atleast 5 exits per floor.

and i know Taj has 6 gates from which two are in front.....


----------



## voiceofaa

yarmook said:


> And at one or two entry and exit points or doors, the gunmen with heavy bags full of explosive and weapons were not checked at all?



AK-47
Satellite Sets
Hand grenades
Rae Explosives
Pistols
Communication Devices

All these things were cleared by Security, is'nt strange ???


----------



## voiceofaa

Robin234 said:


> they entered from the staff entry (Said by Ratan Tata in his interview or something ).Usually or what I have seen in Delhi, where I did my training ,there is no checking of employees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just asked you think that your are from hotel industry .
> 
> I said that from what I have seen in 5 star hotels of Delhi .



This is bulshit.....even a small cottage has substantial security measures if some forieign delegates are due to stay there (NON-Political figures and common people)


----------



## yarmook

Robin234 said:


> they entered from the back are(Said by Ratan Tata in his interview or something ).Usually or what I have seen in Delhi, where I did my training ,there is no checking of employees.



All were not employees. Those who were employees must be Indians because it is not possible that non-Indians specialy Pakistanis were given employment at the top hotel in India which is famouse among foreigners. Its clearly inside job.

At all big hotels with international reputation there is checking system and in most cases CCTVs are installed. Taj is one such hotel where all these measures should have been there. Its not possible for someone to enter from back in such building without being noticed.


----------



## Kharian_Beast

yarmook said:


> All were not employees. Those who were employees must be Indians because it is not possible that non-Indians specialy Pakistanis were given employment at the top hotel in India which is famouse among foreigners. Its clearly inside job.
> 
> At all big hotels with international reputation there is checking system and in most cases CCTVs are installed. Taj is one such hotel where all these measures should have been there. Its not possible for someone to enter from back in such building without being noticed.



Exactly, a lot of this was brought up even during the seige yet still hasn't been answered by any official/unofficial Indian outlet let alone Indian members on this forum.


----------



## yarmook

Robin234 said:


> *According to Taj no employee was involved,though investigation is still going on *.
> 
> I know there are CCTV's installed and staff gate is accessed by many people .
> 
> Even if security people might have noticed that ,Its still really hard to tackle when somebody starts shooting indiscriminately with something like AK-47 .
> 
> security is there ,but even Tata agreed that it was not enough to cope a terrorist attack this big .
> 
> I have seen during my training that security guards doesn't even have a revolver forget about a AK-47 or something .



You are going back on your own statement. Earlier you said they were not checked because staff is not checked for security.

India also said they stayed in Mumbai for two months and they were already in the hotel which negates the theory of indiscriminate firing for entering the hotel.


----------



## Kharian_Beast

All the bombs that were diffused were set up by people that just came before the operation from a foreign country by boat? If they had help, who helped them? Undercover rogue police? Indian intelligence? Wouldn't this put a hole in the theory that Pakistani's coming from outside on a boat did all of this? Why hasn't anything else surfaced regarding that ghost mother ship from Karachi? Why was Karkare and colleagues killed so quickly before anyone else?

Also, I don't trust the fact that the world is waiting on Indian authorities to release key evidence, I don't trust India anymore after their air force violated Pakistani airspace twice in attacking formations.


----------



## voiceofaa

Robin234 said:


> *According to Taj * no employee was involved,



This is indeed a reliable source 



Robin234 said:


> security is there ,but even Tata agreed that it was not enough to cope a terrorist attack this big .



Feel sorry for security level of indians, in Pakistan, you can't even cross reception of an organisation without security check, no matter what you are carrying, even if you are with suicide jackets, you can blow yourself at reception, can't cross that.



Robin234 said:


> I have seen during my training that security guards doesn't even have a revolver forget about a AK-47 or something .



lol. even a small jewellar in Pakistan hire professional Security Guard with atleast SMG with him, as far as training is concern, do i need to elaborate the structure of security guards maintain these days ?


----------



## voiceofaa

Robin234 said:


> structure of Security guard lol..not required .
> 
> Well,After 26/11 these hotel security guards do have things to tackle ,but its too late .
> 
> Yeah ,I know what they did with Marriott ,Security checkers stopped them and they blew the whole hotel .
> 
> 
> 
> there is no compulsion to trust us ,you better trust Z hamid ._*Great person .*_





I intentionally add that line of reception to see your reply and see ....bullzeye 

btw i don't need anyone to understand fool's dramatic bollywood type dramas of Indian Government, all one need is a sane mind, which most of indians lack


----------



## Imran Khan

Mumbai on film: Bad taste or true drama? 


Many film-makers believe the drama of Mumbai makes for good cinema


By Prachi Pinglay 
BBC News, Mumbai 



"*Taj Terror", "Taj to Oberoi", "48 hours at Taj", "Operation Five Star Mumbai", "26/11- Mumbai under Terror", "Shootout at Oberoi" and "Operation Cyclone". *

These might seem like newspaper headlines of the recent Mumbai attacks but they are in fact some of the 20 titles waiting for approval for possible movies based on the events of last month. 

To some, the rush to register the titles seems like appalling bad taste coming so soon after so many funerals. 

"It always happens. People jump on every tragedy. It is like ambulance chasing," says well-known documentary film-maker Anand Patwardhan. 

"A tiny percentage of these film-makers may be sincere. A film should be genuine and sensitive. If it tries to reduce violence and communal hatred - which is the underlying reason for such violence - then it should be made and is good for society. 

"But the chances are that it is an attempt to exploit the misery of people." 

Accusations of bad taste were certainly levelled at former Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh after he visited the Taj Mahal Palace hotel with film-maker Ram Gopal Varma. 

Few made 

Several films have been made in the past couple of years with terror as their backdrop - such as Mumbai Meri Jaan (Mumbai my love), A Wednesday and Shoot on sight - and more are in production. 


Indian film-makers are not shy of covering controversial issues 

Sushma Shiromanee, vice-president of the Indian Motion Pictures and Producers' Association, a body that deals with title registration for Hindi films in Mumbai, confirmed that several producers had applied for titles related to the Mumbai attacks. 

However, experts say that despite the registration numbers, few films are actually made and released. 

"When an event like this happens, several producers and writers want to tell the story. Many have applied for titles pertaining to the attacks. These applications will be studied by our committee and if anything is inappropriate, we'll advise them to change it. These procedures take almost a month," Ms Shiromanee said. 

Cinema trade analysts say the unprecedented manner in which 10 gunmen entered the city and opened fire, held hostages for more than two days and left more than 170 people dead, is valuable film material. 

Film-makers want to depict different aspects of those 60 hours. 

Two of the most popular hotels of India's financial capital were held under siege, while gunmen opened fire at the famous Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST), the Leopold cafe and other well-known places. 

Emotional story 

B Subhash, producer and writer of several commercial Hindi films, has applied for a title called "Bird's point of view of the Taj Terror." He says that far from being in bad taste, the film aims to bring out the impact of terror on innocent lives. 


Many film-makers say the human angle will be their focus 

"A bird is a symbol of innocence," he says, "and I want to show what happened in Mumbai from that point of view. 

"Terrorism is a horrifying thing. There will be some action as well but basically it will be an emotional story. We should complete writing within a month and early next year it should go on the recording floors." 

Jug Mundra, whose film Shoot on Sight was based on the lives of people after the London bombings of 2005, said a fresh perspective was required. 

"We all saw what happened. So if I were to make a film on the 26 November attack it would be about people. 

"It should show how a random act of violence changes people's lives, how serendipity in adverse circumstances brings people together. I feel that an incident such as the Mumbai attack can offer an insight into the human psyche. 

"Filmmakers are always looking for drama which often comes from conflict situations such as this."


----------



## Silverfalcon

Bollywood has always been a very important part in Indias Foreign policy.

They would make a movie to maybe soften the situation or change/support the view points of people.


----------



## ajpirzada

i heard alchohol and other drugs were found in their bags???? how true is this???
i mean a muslim callin himself a jihadi drinkin alchohol while doin his fake jihad doesnt make sence....
also as far as i know there were only 4 or 5 terrorists in taj... dont u think its quite hard for 4 ppl to fight for 3 days without any sleep... keepin in mind that they had already been playin hide and see with indian coastal guards, navy, 29 radars, commandos guarding the oil field, awcs, hellis and meritime agenices for last 2 days on their way to mumbai from karachi in a trawler????


----------



## ajpirzada

dont get offended but i find it quite funny that indian navy was doin its exercise at that time which was ment for stopping pakistani and pirate ships from enterin indian waters. and durin their exercise a pakistani trawler went passed them........ first of all i dont believe that a trawler could reach mumbai all the way from karachi without gettin detected, but if it happened then its well funny........


----------



## Imran Khan

*Mumbai attackers stole credit cards, money: police*

Mystery grows over general's slaying in Pakistan 
6:05am ESTBy Bappa Majumdar

NEW DELHI (Reuters) - The militants who attacked India's financial center last month, killing 179 people, also stole credit cards, money and mobile telephones from their victims, Mumbai's top police officer said on Monday.

The stolen goods and currency included thousands of rupees and dollars found on the bodies of the nine gunmen killed by police during the three-day siege in Mumbai. A 10th gunmen survived and was captured by police.

"We have no idea what they were planning to do with the money and cards, but it just speaks a lot more about their evil nature and the fact that criminals love stealing money and cards," Mumbai Police Commissioner Hasan Gafoor told Reuters.

The attack has soured relations between uneasy nuclear-armed neighbors India and Pakistan.

India has blamed the banned Pakistan-based group Lashkar-e-Taiba for the attacks and called on Islamabad to do more to stamp out groups that operate from its soil.

The gunmen took scores of guests hostage and battled commandos inside two luxury Mumbai hotels.

"They took quite a few credit cards and a lot of money," Gafoor said by telephone.

"Since they are all dead, we can only presume that they liked the more colorful (credit cards) and took them," he said.

The 10th gunman, identified as Pakistani Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, told police he had lived a life of petty crime before coming in contact with Lashkar-e-Taiba in the city of Rawalpindi, according to media reports of his statement to police.

Kasab was captured before reaching either of the hotels.

The gunmen also took mobile phones from hostages. Some of them then used the phones to call an Indian television channel and to speak with their bosses in Pakistan, police said.

Security experts said the gunmen had criminal backgrounds.

"They all belong to ordinary families and they were out of there early to make quick money until they got indoctrinated into jihadi activities," said security expert Major General Ashok Mehta.

The gunmen also set off bombs inside the two hotels, causing significant damage.

The 105-year-old Taj Mahal hotel will reopen this week, its owner has said. The hotel has set up a welfare trust for victims.

(Editing by Paul Tait)


----------



## orion

*'Our operation was not about 10 terrorists, it was all about saving lives'
Mumbai Joint Commissioner of Police Rakesh Maria [Images], the lead investigator in the attacks case, in his first interview on the acts of terror. Exclusive to rediff.com *

Thats interesting!text book rules...whts the first thing u do when hostages(inthis case abt 200 alone in taj...leaving the 5 in chabad house and a few hundred in oberoi) are held?...NEGOTIATE! THATS THE BEST OPTION TO SAVE LIVES...IF U REALLY WANT TO i.e!!
Y did the indian authorities refuse to negotiate ...y didnt they contact the terrorists at any level..was there sumthing to hide or they were afraid a few more words like 'julm and 'jiyatadi' will make it even more difficult for them to haul the whole lack of preparedness,intelligence failure,internal conflicts...or the worse a self orchestered drama...on Pakistan...the omnipresent indian scapegoat?
Y did ur great blackcats refuse to leave their barracks only situated afew hundred yards away from the taj without a written and faxed summon??making the action delayed by a whole 18 hours!all the while the hostages are held and the bloody drama keeps unfolding.
so plz stop lapping up to the hoard of lies your security agencies are spinning up now to look all heroic and innocent...they didnt save any innocent lives the way they were suppose too...a lot of them died in the cross fire...the owner of taj lost his family in a fire initiated from a grenade attack...which could not be verified if it was from the terrorists or your black cats!
A hotel of 500 plus rooms...ballrooms,dancing floors and conference rooms separate...held by 2 terrorists ratio (200 commandoes)!can u seriously even imagine that esp if they were from a foreign land altogether!
How abt smartening up and asking sum logical questions and expecting logical answers from your indian government instead of taking them face front.
Lastly bring in the Pakistani investigation teams, they have asked thrice with no response...afterall apparently the indians are telling the truth and have nothing to lose,right?


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## Majnun

Whether India set it up or not makes no difference because
1) If the world finds that there was no link to Pakistan, it will be downplayed
2) Indian government will distance itself completely if any proof is found against them


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## yoda

orion said:


> *'Our operation was not about 10 terrorists, it was all about saving lives'
> Mumbai Joint Commissioner of Police Rakesh Maria [Images], the lead investigator in the attacks case, in his first interview on the acts of terror. Exclusive to rediff.com *
> 
> Thats interesting!text book rules...whts the first thing u do when hostages(inthis case abt 200 alone in taj...leaving the 5 in chabad house and a few hundred in oberoi) are held?...NEGOTIATE! THATS THE BEST OPTION TO SAVE LIVES...IF U REALLY WANT TO i.e!!
> Y did the indian authorities refuse to negotiate .



After Kandhar Hijack epsiode, GoI decided that in the event of any hostage situation there will be no negotiations with terrorists. Simple.


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## yoda

ajpirzada said:


> i heard alchohol and other drugs were found in their bags???? how true is this???
> i mean a muslim callin himself a jihadi drinkin alchohol while doin his fake jihad doesnt make sence....
> also as far as i know there were only 4 or 5 terrorists in taj... dont u think its quite hard for 4 ppl to fight for 3 days without any sleep... keepin in mind that they had already been playin hide and see with indian coastal guards, navy, 29 radars, commandos guarding the oil field, awcs, hellis and meritime agenices for last 2 days on their way to mumbai from karachi in a trawler????



Alcohol was not found. Drugs which keep them alert without making them sleepy were found in their bags.


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## orion

Thats exactly my point...when u dont negotiate and move in for a full armed assult..with the main aim of hunting down the terrorists,irrespective of the consequences on the hostages u dont faultly claim that the operation was 'not about 10 terrorists,it was all about saving lives!'


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## Energon

solid snake said:


> Not very hard for RAW to pay off a bunch of poor people in some village to say that some kid was their son, when the media shows up.


You seem like a really nice kid with a lot of common sense.... does any of this really seem like some espionage _game _to you?


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## heuristix

solid snake said:


> How can we be expected to believe anything that this terrorist confesses to? It is quite clear that much of what he says will be extracted under duress. That means the Indians can make him say anything they want.



I suppose based on your statement that you really can't believe *anything* said by an Indian court, media outlet or person. Fine, let's go with that. 

Do you believe there are extremists who train in Pakistan and then come to India to kill innocents?

If yes - you have a problem you need to fix in your country.

If no - then for some magical reason, countries on both sides of you - Afghanistan and India are complaining that your country shelters extremists without any reason.

And without any reason, several countries have decided they are right and sent NATO forces to help fight them.

If you choose to keep believing that they are all lying and there is nothing wrong in Pakistan, ultimately the situation is going to reach a point where it is not bearable for one of the other countries.

There will be a war. I have no doubt there will be a lot of damage on both sides of the border, but more likely that not, you will be facing off with a country much bigger than yours. You will suffer at least as much and most likely more.

Instead, if you focus on solving the problem, there won't be a war and you can spend your efforts actually doing constructive work.

Up to you.


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## roadrunner

Energon said:


> You seem like a really nice kid with a lot of common sense.... does any of this really seem like some espionage _game _to you?



Wow. Your ignorance knows no bounds. In the subcontinent this sort of dirty tricks tactic is commonplace with India. You obviously are clueless as to the espionage games played on Samjhouta.


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## rubyjackass

neo_revo said:


> LOL
> 
> Man is it just me or are Indian obsessed with Pakistan and Pakistani forums? It's like a kid trying so hard to be accepted. Anyone with dignity, would probably leave soon after being told off.
> 
> Alright i won't be mean. It's good to have some entertainment around..


As for me...
I am genuinely interested in Pakistans defence and media. To learn about how people think there. You are free to join any Indian form. You need not even specify your nationality in 'Bharat Rakshak'(?). And nobody cares your(not the forum's) telling off. 

But when I see utterly misleading information, I correct it with sources. Like the Chennai law college incident which was (wrongly)reported as violence against muslims(It shows a you-tube video of a guy getting beaten up near a college gate). 

I have no intention of propaganda. I am just sharing my views, discussing with people.


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## rubyjackass

orion said:


> Thats exactly my point...when u dont negotiate and move in for a full armed assult..with the main aim of hunting down the terrorists,irrespective of the consequences on the hostages u dont faultly claim that the operation was 'not about 10 terrorists,it was all about saving lives!'



Agreed dude...
Indian security establishment in Mumbai sucked.
It was about saving lives whichever could be saved without negotiation.
That is why they did not even think about using White Phosphorous. A lot of pun intended here. Go find it.

It so silly complaining about this. Think with the Kandahar hijack and the hostage situation in mind. You should not find the pettiest contradiction about the operation.


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## SurvivoR

rubyjackass said:


> As for me...
> I am genuinely interested in Pakistans defence and media. To learn about how people think there. You are free to join any Indian form. You need not even specify your nationality in 'Bharat Rakshak'(?). And nobody cares your(not the forum's) telling off.
> 
> But when I see utterly misleading information, I correct it with sources. Like the Chennai law college incident which was (wrongly)reported as violence against muslims(It shows a you-tube video of a guy getting beaten up near a college gate).
> 
> I have no intention of propaganda. I am just sharing my views, discussing with people.



Beating a dalit student was also barbaric. Pakistani newspapers did not report as violence against Muslims but it was reported by common people on internet sites.
You should make sure difference between Pakistani newspapers/channels and internet sites arround the world.


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## rubyjackass

SurvivoR said:


> Beating a dalit student was also barbaric. Pakistani newspapers did not report as violence against Muslims but it was reported by common people on internet sites.
> You should make sure difference between Pakistani newspapers/channels and internet sites arround the world.



Did I blame Pakistan media in that post?
Read the posts carefully. I did not say Pakistan media did that.


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## was



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## was

p.2 

05:00 and look specially at 06:10 lol lol

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## Omar1984

Zaid Hamid is the only person in Pakistan whose not afraid to speak the truth. I hate watching Geo news, Ary news....but I really enjoy watching Zaid Hamid.
I'm so glad Pakistanis like Zaid Hamid are active in spreading the truth, the way things actually are..not like the PPP whose still chasing this one sided pakistan-hind friendship.


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## Skywalker

WOW.....the truth is unfolding now.


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## Beskar

That was an AWESOME half hour of the Alex Jones show. 

I've been saying that for a LONG time now. The west WILL wake up to the real ZIONIST side of the Indians. Well, turns out a couple of intellects have figured it out. Everyone should hear this analysis. It's a Must watch!


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## Energon

roadrunner said:


> Wow. Your ignorance knows no bounds...


 You're going to comment upon someone else's "ignorance"? Really?


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## roadrunner

Energon said:


> You're going to comment upon someone else's "ignorance"? Really?



As the saying goes, "Ignorance is bliss for the ignorant".


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## skybolt

*Intro of Robert Gates*


Robert Michael Gates (born September 25, 1943) is currently serving as the 22nd United States Secretary of Defense. He took office on December 18, 2006. Prior to this, Gates served for 26 years in the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Council, and under President George H. W. Bush as Director of Central Intelligence. Before he joined the CIA, he served with the United States Air Force (USAF). After leaving the CIA, Gates became president of Texas A&M University and was a member of several corporate boards. Gates also served as a member of the Iraq Study Group, the bipartisan commission co-chaired by James A. Baker III and Lee Hamilton, that has studied the Iraq War. He was also the first pick to serve as Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security when it was created following the September 11, 2001 attacks, but he declined the appointment in order to remain President of Texas A&M University.

Gates accepted the nomination as Secretary of Defense position on November 8, 2006, replacing Donald Rumsfeld. He was confirmed with bipartisan support.[4] In a 2007 profile written by former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, Time named Gates one of the year's most influential people. In 2008, Gates was named one of America's Best Leaders by U.S. News & World Report. President-elect Barack Obama has offered Gates the continued position as Defense Secretary under his administration, and Gates has accepted.


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## Patriot

West is playing huge game.They're just destabilizing Pakistan so China never gets into Super Power status and our America members thinks CIA is spreading Democracy and freedom.ISI should definitely contact China and do something kick out the AL-CIA from Tribal Areas.Well, now Indians and Americans will say Robert Gates is Jihadi 
(I think this is the reason Afghanis broke the fence of border....)


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## Energon

roadrunner said:


> As the saying goes, "Ignorance is bliss for the ignorant".



It sure is innit?


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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

interesting....................


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## Beskar

atmi_chuza said:


> Generally I wouldnt take every thing by AJ seriously, but with Robert gates sitting there one gotta wonder. just my 0.2 cents.



LOL WHAT? That's not Robert Gates! That's WEBSTER TARPLEY!

You think the secretary of defence would come give an interview on a Radio show?

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

bezerk86 said:


> LOL WHAT? That's not Robert Gates! That's WEBSTER TARPLEY!
> 
> You think the secretary of defence would come give an interview on a Radio show?



I just realized that too..........thanks for pointing out.


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## Beskar

You're welcome bro. 

The title of the video is misleading, i agree, but one should remember that the Secretary of Defence of United States doesn't really have the time, or interest to go talk on the alex jones show


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## A.Rahman

Thats not Robert Gates, title changed


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## Kharian_Beast

Really worth listening to and taking special notice to geo-politics in a macro cosmic view.


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## Black Stone

Poll: Mumbai bombers aimed to start war

The deadly Mumbai terror attacks were aimed at pushing Pakistan and India to the brink of a war for the fourth time, a recent poll says. 

Over 49 percent of some 4,018 respondents to an online Press TV poll believe the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks in November were planning to provoke a war between the two countries. 

According to the survey, nearly 25 percent said the terror attacks were staged in a bid to undermine the position of Pakistan and Muslims in the Indian Subcontinent. 

Only 12 percent reasoned that the attackers were planning to deal a blow to India's economy. 

India alleges that Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) is the culprit behind the three-day coordinated terrorist attacks, which ripped through Mumbai on Nov. 26, and killed nearly 195 people. 

The incident has heightened tensions between the two nuclear-armed neighbors at a time when Islamabad and New Delhi were holding 'peace talks' to patch up past differences. 

Although the Indian authorities say that New Delhi is not planning a military action against Pakistan, they urged Islamabad to crack down on militants believed to be based within its borders. 

"Unless Pakistan takes action against those terrorists who are operating on their soil against India ... things will not be normal," said Indian Defense Minister, A.K. Antony, on Nov. 30.

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## Nafees

Source: Afp, Islamabad, The Daily Star - Details News

*Pakistan rejects British request to grill Mumbai attack suspects *


Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has turned down a British request to question suspects arrested in connection with the Mumbai attacks, his office said Monday.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown visited Islamabad at the weekend in a bid to calm tensions between Pakistan and India in the wake of the attacks in the Indian metropolis that left 172 dead.

"Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said that in his meeting on Sunday with the British Prime Minister, he turned down his request for Britain probing the Pakistanis detained after (the) Mumbai attacks," Gilani's office said.

Gilani was addressing the federal parliament at the beginning of a general debate on the situation arising out of the Mumbai attacks, it said.

"He said he told Gordon Brown that if there were any proofs, these persons will be prosecuted under the law of Pakistan," it said.

In his visit to Islamabad, Brown pledged to help Pakistan "break the chain of terror" after holding talks with President Asif Ali Zardari on security in the wake of the Mumbai attacks.

At least one British national died in the 60-hour rampage on India's financial centre late last month, and Brown had said he asked Zardari to allow British police to question Pakistani suspects.

Brown said Britain would work with the government in Islamabad to ensure that terrorists are denied safe haven in Pakistan, and pledged six million pounds (nine million dollars) to help it tackle militancy.

Gilani had earlier Sunday told a reporter in the eastern city of Lahore that once Pakistan had the evidence of proof of involvement of the suspects, then it would consider the request.

"We said that no proof has reached us and when proof will reach us, then (you can) talk to us," he said.

Pakistan's rejection of the British request came as US Senator John Kerry visited India and Pakistan, putting fresh pressure on Islamabad over the Mumbai attacks, saying its powerful spy agency must be brought under control.

Ahead of talks with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, Kerry said Pakistan's Inter Services-Intelligence (ISI) must stop operating independently of the government and end its links with militant groups.

"We would like to see an ISI that is reforming and brought completely under civilian control," the US Democratic Party's 2004 presidential candidate told the Indian Express.

Kerry said the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) group, which India accuses of planning the Mumbai attacks, was set up by the ISI to fight Indian rule in Kashmir.

After talks with Indian leaders, he said there was "strong evidence" that the Mumbai gunmen came from Pakistan and urged Islamabad to take legal action against the LeT.

"We all know it was planned. It was planned over a period of time. We all know they (attackers) came from Pakistan and we understand the training that took place in that regard. So, there is strong evidence," he said.

Kerry later arrived in Pakistan for what a US embassy spokesman in Islamabad told AFP were "scheduled talks with senior Pakistani government officials on a variety of regional issues."

On his return to Washington, Kerry is expected to brief US president-elect Barack Obama on his talks with the Indian and Pakistani leaders.

Pakistan has arrested key leaders of Lashkar-e-Taiba and shut down a charity accused of being a front for the group, freezing its assets and detaining dozens of members.

But it says it will not hand over any suspects to India, saying New Delhi has not yet provided any evidence implicating Pakistanis in the attacks

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## dabong1

Cover-up in Mumbai - Indian View: 

By Sandhya Jain

1 December 2008



While stock-taking has only just begun, it already appears as if some things are being covered up. Some things deserve an immediate answer  how many terrorists were there actually;$how did they reach their respective destinations inland; and is it possible that super-terrorists simply walked out with the real survivors after having utilised the mercenaries to the hilt, just as they had murdered the navigators of the boats that brought them to Mumbai? 


Current media reports and government sources say that the terrorists came by sea, landing near the Gateway of India or Colaba. This certainly explains the attacks on the sea front hotels like Taj, Oberoi and the Nariman House. But the question remains  how did they get to the CST station, Cama Hospital, and other places inland? Someone must have provided transport and back-up. 


By no logic can anyone believe that nine separate sites in a city could be held to ransom by just 10 men. It is particularly difficult to believe that gigantic hotels like the Taj could be ruined and scores of guests killed or injured by just two men (sometimes the figure goes to six). Even two men per floor could not have caused the kind of death and destruction that did happen. A small place like Nariman House, yes, but Taj and Oberoi  I dont believe it. And if there were six persons at Taj and at least two at Nariman House, that means only two persons destroyed the Oberoi? 


Rediff.com has interviewed the doctors who conducted the post-mortems on the dead hostages and terrorists, and it is their expert opinion that a battle of attrition took place over three days at the Oberoi and Taj hotels. The mutilation of the bodies was unlike anything they had seen in their careers in forensics. 


For one, the bodies of the victims bore horrible signs of torture. Now this is understandable if the victims are being tormented by half-human beasts, but it seems strange that two terrorists could simultaneously fight and keep Indian commandos at bay for 62 hours, and also have the time to torture their victims. Yet the doctors were emphatic that: 
"It was apparent that most of the dead were tortured. What shocked me were the telltale signs showing clearly how the hostages were executed in cold blood." 


To my mind, it seems apparent that the terrorists who kept the NSG commandos engaged and those who tortured and killed the hotel staff and guests were two separate groups. 


This suspicion is intensified by the startling revelation that the terrorists also did not meet a clean death. Doctors who conducted the post-mortem said the bodies of the terrorists  especially their faces - were beyond recognition. The security forces identified the bodies as those of terrorists [on TV they said it was because of the presence of weaponry near the bodies]. 



One terrorist was shot through either eye (i.e., both eyes!!!). As the NSG commandos never got to such close range with the terrorists, and nobody commits suicide by shooting both his own eyes, it follows that the killers were somebody else. Since none of the hotel guests could have the kind of weaponry used in the conflict, this suggests the presence of a mysterious third party, making the terrorists the victims of a classic double-cross  the stuff of spy thrillers. Actually, it reminds one of the convenient murder of the alleged killer of President John F. Kennedy. 


Hence it would be entirely in order to closely interrogate each and every guest, especially the foreign guests, before allowing them to leave the country. Without false emotionalism, we should also fingerprint them for the future; who knows what Interpol cooperation may throw up. 


Top Russian counter-terrorism expert, Vladimir Klyukin, an Afghan war veteran, opines that the Mumbai attackers were not "ordinary terrorists" and were probably trained by the special operations forces set up in Pakistan by US intelligence prior to the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan. In his view, the nature of the Mumbai events suggests the signature of the 'Green Flag' special operations forces created by the Americans in Pakistan, just a year before the Soviet withdrawal. 


Guerrilla operations of the Mumbai kind require at least two-three years of preparatory work with experienced instructors. Raw trainees cannot hold four huge complexes in a city to ransom for so long. The Russian Interfax news agency reported the former KGB veteran as surmising the involvement of at least 50 terrorists, given the geography and sheer scale of the attacks. This seems like a legitimate estimation. 


What is more, the only way 9 coordinated attacks can occur simultaneously is by using Global Positioning Systems (GPS) or live maps for communication and control. These are not normally owned by private parties. Initial investigations also suggested that as many as seven terrorists included mostly British-born Pakistanis, and one does hope that these leads are not covered up. The reports also suggested some gunmen were captured, but later media reports highlighted that only one terrorists was caught alive at the railway station. So there is a lot of confusion here that needs to be cleared up. 



Certainly the hints about British involvement, openly asserted by the outspoken Lyndon LaRouche, need investigation. 



Media has been heavily criticized in some quarters for airing visuals of NSG commandos dropping on the hotel roofs from helicopters, and thus giving operational secrets away to the militants watching TV inside. If the criticism is to be valid, however, we will have to accept that the terrorists had more men inside who could be deployed to watch TV and give information which would enable them to react and rebuff the aerial assault. There is no way 2 to 6 terrorists could torture victims sadistically and kill them brutally, watch TV, fight and keep the security forces at bay for 62 hours, and then kill themselves or each other in impossible ways. 


The death of terrorists points to a clear double-cross and also the possibility of the involvement of more than one religious denomination. That the terrorists did not prepare for death by carrying potassium cyanide is well known; nor did they simply intend to blow themselves up like the usual suicide bombers. The surviving terrorist has revealed that they were told of an escape plan  and no doubt that plan was used by those who killed their fellow terrorists and walked out free! 


This writer has consistently stated that modern, late 20th-21st century jihad is qualitatively different from the medieval jihad in which Muslim armies led by generals or kings ran over much of the world in Europe, North Africa, and Asia. Contemporary jihad is a mercenary tool of Western colonialism, serving a colonial intent with devout slavishness, and this seems borne out by the events of Mumbai.


What remains to be seen, however, is whether or not the Islamic world wakes up to the reality of its own self-enslavement. India on its part has demonstrated that no matter how long it takes to get operational, no matter the cost in terms of live and property, the territory of Bharat Mata will be protected. 


It is more than likely that Pakistan was rebuked by its British and American friends (read Masters) for agreeing to send the ISI chief to assist in the investigations, and forced to backtrack on a solemn assurance. The teams from Scotland Yard and America, ostensibly coming to assist India in the probe, are more likely trying to ascertain the extent of evidence with India. 


It is pertinent that the recovery of a satellite phone from the trawler abandoned with the body of the Gujarati captain revealed that the trawler had been hijacked to Karachi Port, and while there, calls were made even to Australia (where the CIA has a famous outpost!)


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## Imran Khan

Who benefits from Mumbai? 





Brian Cloughley 


*The problem for India  and for Pakistan  is that extreme Hindu nationalism has been fed mightily by the Mumbai murders. Zealots like Rajnath Singh are rubbing their hands and licking their lips because they want to get rid of decent men like Dr Singh
*
When notable incidents of violence occurred in the time of the Roman Empire two thousand years ago, the writer, philosopher and orator Marcus Tullius Cicero embarrassed some people by asking Cui bono?  who benefits? This is a wise question, because identification of those who might benefit from acts of terrorism can be interesting.

Lets remind ourselves of the purposes of terror. The aims of these evil operations, whether they be conducted by assassination, suicide flights of airliners into buildings or tossing bombs at marketplace crowds, are basically the same: first, they are intended to sow fear among the inhabitants of the attacked city, region or country by killing people; then there is the aim of creating distrust of the government and authorities in general by the countrys citizens. Next is the objective of encouraging overreaction on the part of government, linked with the intention of generating or increasing international suspicion and hatred.

The overall goal is to cause instability, because terrorists thrive when people are confused, frightened, and distrustful of authority. When security precautions are increased dramatically in order to supposedly counter threats, this adds only to frustration and fury on the part of ordinary citizens. But terrorists are rarely affected.

How many terrorists have been caught in the US since the preposterous Patriot Act in the US came into force? America had perfectly adequate measures in place to deal with terrorism before 9/11: the problem was incompetence, not lack of systems. But politicians have to be seen to be taking dramatic action, no matter how ludicrous or unproductive that might be.

Confusion breeds panic, and panic plays right into the hands of terrorists. And the sowing of even more panic seems to be the speciality of many politicians and others who engage their tongues before their brains. An idiot British Home Office minister, Lord West, declared recently that another great plot [is] building up again because of a huge threat from Al Qaeda. Just what his announcement was meant to achieve is beyond understanding, because if youve detected a plot the last thing you want to do is publicise the fact, thus letting the plotters know that youre on to them. No: it was just the usual flatulence from a self-important fathead who felt he had to justify his position.

But Indias prime minister, a man of urbane commonsense, has taken things in his stride. Although understandably irate, his response has been measured. Certainly he has blamed Pakistan, without naming it, because his intelligence people have assured him that the ten terrorists came from Pakistan (but not that they were in any way officially sponsored by the government).

Some of his ministers have sailed closer to the wind, but, as reported by the Press Trust of India, Rajnath Singh, the leader of Indias Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) [the main opposition group], urged India to avenge the repeated terror attacks by striking Pakistan, and declared that There is a need to avenge the repeated assault on our people and democracy.

Rajnath Singh is the man who stated that the Indian police investigation of the Hindu extremists bombing in Malegaon in September was a huge conspiracy against Hindus, in spite of, or perhaps because of, the arrest of a serving army officer, Lieutenant Colonel Purohit, for involvement in planning the atrocity. Singh is also the man, according to the Indian magazine Frontline last year, who asked Indians to give the BJP 10 years [in power], and declared that if this comes about, by 2016 well do away with this policy of appeasement of Muslims forever.

So thats the BJP agenda if they win the elections next May.

The problem for India  and for Pakistan  is that extreme Hindu nationalism has been fed mightily by the Mumbai murders. Zealots like Rajnath Singh are rubbing their hands and licking their lips because they want to get rid of decent men like Dr Singh and the equally cerebral Mr Palaniappan Chidambaram, who has just been appointed home minister in lieu of Mr Shivraj Patil, who took responsibility for the decidedly unstructured response to the attack and most honourably resigned. (British politicians please copy. Fat chance.)

Who benefits from the Mumbai slaughter? Certainly not Indias Congress-led coalition government, tottering as it is with shaky allies. Not the attackers, because all but one are dead, and hell never see the light of day again. And certainly not Pakistan, which has quite enough problems on its plate at the moment without getting involved in foreign forays. (According to the UN, some 1445 civilians were killed in Pakistan in the first eight months of 2008; about 800 by homegrown fanatics and the rest by illegal foreign airstrikes.)

So who, then, benefits?

One answer, unfortunately, is the BJP and its supporters in such sinister organisations as the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), and the Shiv Sena (SS). In November, the Independent reported the SS leader, Bal Thackeray, as having written that The threat of Islamic terror in India is rising. It is time to counter the same with Hindu terror. Hindu suicide squads should be readied to ensure the existence of Hindu society and to protect the nation.

All of these organisations looked with approval on the massacres of 2000 Muslims in Gujarat in 2002 and scores of Christians in Orissa this year. One fanatic of the Bajrang Dal paramilitary group involved in the Gujarat pogrom said proudly that There was this pregnant [Muslim] woman, I killed her... They shouldnt even be allowed to breed... Whoever they are, women, children, whoever...cut them down. Thrash them, slash them, burn them... The idea is, dont keep them alive at all.

These are dangerous, vicious extremists. And they all benefit from the Mumbai carnage. Which is bad news for the sub-continent.

Brian Cloughleys book about the Pakistan army, War, Coups and Terror, has just been published by Pen & Sword Books (UK) and is distributed in Pakistan by Saeed Book Bank

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## Neo

*Who benefits from Mumbai?​*By Brian Cloughley 

*The problem for India  and for Pakistan  is that extreme Hindu nationalism has been fed mightily by the Mumbai murders. Zealots like Rajnath Singh are rubbing their hands and licking their lips because they want to get rid of decent men like Dr Singh​*
When notable incidents of violence occurred in the time of the Roman Empire two thousand years ago, the writer, philosopher and orator Marcus Tullius Cicero embarrassed some people by asking *Cui bono?  who benefits? This is a wise question, because identification of those who might benefit from acts of terrorism can be interesting.*

Lets remind ourselves of the purposes of terror. The aims of these evil operations, whether they be conducted by assassination, suicide flights of airliners into buildings or tossing bombs at marketplace crowds, are basically the same: *first, they are intended to sow fear among the inhabitants of the attacked city, region or country by killing people; then there is the aim of creating distrust of the government and authorities in general by the countrys citizens. Next is the objective of encouraging overreaction on the part of government, linked with the intention of generating or increasing international suspicion and hatred.*

*The overall goal is to cause instability,* *because terrorists thrive when people are confused, frightened, and distrustful of authority.* When security precautions are increased dramatically in order to supposedly counter threats, *this adds only to frustration and fury on the part of ordinary citizens. But terrorists are rarely affected.*

How many terrorists have been caught in the US since the preposterous Patriot Act in the US came into force? America had perfectly adequate measures in place to deal with terrorism before 9/11: the problem was incompetence, not lack of systems. But politicians have to be seen to be taking dramatic action, no matter how ludicrous or unproductive that might be.

*Confusion breeds panic, and panic plays right into the hands of terrorists. And the sowing of even more panic seems to be the speciality of many politicians and others who engage their tongues before their brains.* An idiot British Home Office minister, Lord West, declared recently that another great plot [is] building up again because of a huge threat from Al Qaeda. Just what his announcement was meant to achieve is beyond understanding, because if youve detected a plot the last thing you want to do is publicise the fact, thus letting the plotters know that youre on to them. No: it was just the usual flatulence from a self-important fathead who felt he had to justify his position.

But Indias prime minister, a man of urbane commonsense, has taken things in his stride. Although understandably irate, his response has been measured. Certainly he has blamed Pakistan, without naming it, because his intelligence people have assured him that the ten terrorists came from Pakistan (but not that they were in any way officially sponsored by the government).

*Some of his ministers have sailed closer to the wind, but, as reported by the Press Trust of India, Rajnath Singh, the leader of Indias Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) [the main opposition group], urged India to avenge the repeated terror attacks by striking Pakistan, and declared that There is a need to avenge the repeated assault on our people and democracy.*

*Rajnath Singh is the man who stated that the Indian police investigation of the Hindu extremists bombing in Malegaon in September was a huge conspiracy against Hindus, in spite of, or perhaps because of, the arrest of a serving army officer, Lieutenant Colonel Purohit, for involvement in planning the atrocity. Singh is also the man, according to the Indian magazine Frontline last year, who asked Indians to give the BJP 10 years [in power], and declared that if this comes about, by 2016 well do away with this policy of appeasement of Muslims forever.*

*So thats the BJP agenda if they win the elections next May.*

The problem for India  and for Pakistan  is that *extreme Hindu nationalism has been fed mightily by the Mumbai murders.* Zealots like Rajnath Singh are rubbing their hands and licking their lips because they want to get rid of decent men like Dr Singh and the equally cerebral Mr Palaniappan Chidambaram, who has just been appointed home minister in lieu of Mr Shivraj Patil, who took responsibility for the decidedly unstructured response to the attack and most honourably resigned. (British politicians please copy. Fat chance.)

*Who benefits from the Mumbai slaughter? Certainly not Indias Congress-led coalition government, tottering as it is with shaky allies. Not the attackers, because all but one are dead, and hell never see the light of day again. And certainly not Pakistan, which has quite enough problems on its plate at the moment without getting involved in foreign forays. (According to the UN, some 1445 civilians were killed in Pakistan in the first eight months of 2008; about 800 by homegrown fanatics and the rest by illegal foreign airstrikes.)*

*So who, then, benefits?*

*One answer, unfortunately, is the BJP and its supporters in such sinister organisations as the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), and the Shiv Sena (SS).* In November, the Independent reported the SS leader, Bal Thackeray, as having written that The threat of Islamic terror in India is rising. It is time to counter the same with Hindu terror. Hindu suicide squads should be readied to ensure the existence of Hindu society and to protect the nation.

All of these organisations looked with approval on the massacres of 2000 Muslims in Gujarat in 2002 and scores of Christians in Orissa this year. One fanatic of the Bajrang Dal paramilitary group involved in the Gujarat pogrom said proudly that *There was this pregnant [Muslim] woman, I killed her... They shouldnt even be allowed to breed... Whoever they are, women, children, whoever...cut them down. Thrash them, slash them, burn them... The idea is, dont keep them alive at all.*

These are dangerous, vicious extremists. And they all benefit from the Mumbai carnage. Which is bad news for the sub-continent.

Brian Cloughleys book about the Pakistan army, War, Coups and Terror, has just been published by Pen & Sword Books (UK) and is distributed in Pakistan by Saeed Book Bank

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## Neo

Excellent read!

*Threads merged.*


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## nitesh

^^

But BJP has lost in Delhi and Rajasthan which is supposed to so called to much eaten the "Hindu nationalism" so this is useless BS by this guy. The M.P.and C.G. have been won on the development flank which BJP won (also a huge credit has to be given to congress infighting).


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## roadrunner

The Lt Col Purohit's handlers sure benefitted.

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## RabzonKhan

Interesting.


*Antulay self-goal: sees a Malegaon mystery in Karkare Mumbai murder*

Dec 18, 2008 

MANOJ C G & SEEMA CHISHTI

*NEW DELHI: Union Minority Affairs Minister A R Antulay today kicked up a political storm when he raised doubts over the circumstances around the killing of Maharashtra Anti-Terrorism Squad chief Hemant Karkare and suggested a link with the Malegaon blasts that the officer and his team were investigating. *

*Calling for a CBI probe into his death, Antulay said there is more than what meets the eye as Karkare was investigating cases in which there are non-Muslims also and somebody wanted Karkare killed. That somebody, Antulay claimed, sent the officer to the place where he was killed. *

Congress spokesperson Abhishek Singhvi said these should be treated as Antulays personal views and the party did not agree with him. 

*Karkare was attacked by leaders of the BJP for his probe into the blast that killed six Muslims in Malegaon on September 29  11 suspected Hindu extremists are in jail in the case. Leader of the Opposition L K Advani had even called for a change in the investigation team.

The BJP attacked Antulay for his remarks and demanded an immediate clarification from the Prime Minister. *

*Speaking to The Indian Express, Antulay said: Somebody who knew both the ends sent him (Karkare) in the wrong direction otherwise why should he have gone to Cama hospital? He should have gone to Taj, Oberoi or Nariman House. He went to such a place where there was nothing compared to what was happening in these three places. He went to the Cama hospital on the basis of a phone call. Who is that person who made the phone call? This should be probed. *

*Karkare found that there are non-Muslims involved in acts of terrorism... Any person going to the roots of Terror has always been the target... *Superficially speaking, they (the terrorists) had no reason to kill Karkare. Whether he (Karkare) was a victim of terrorism or terrorism plus something, I do not know, he said. 

I cant say who killed him, Antulay said. I leave it you. But you remember what all was said against the poor man. He was an upright officer. I know a bandh call was given against him before he was killed. 

He said the CBI should be asked to find out who was responsible for sending him (Karkare) in the wrong direction... somebody wanted him to be killed... why all three (Karkare, Additional Commissioner Ashok Kamte and encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar) went together is beyond my comprehension. 

*Under fire from the BJP and Shiv Sena in Lok Sabha, Antulay later said he had not talked about who killed Karkare but only about who sent him in the direction of Cama hospital. *

He told The Indian Express that his questions regarding Karkares death had nothing to do with the veracity of the reports and the investigation of the Mumbai Terror attacks which have made it clear that the terrorists had come from Pakistan. There is no issue on that, that has been clearly established. Anybody interpreting my questions in any other way is doing so out of context. 

On the amendments in the law to tackle terror, Antulay said that it would be better if the same stringency is exercised against major cases of rioting... communalism and terror are twin brother/sister, and if the Act covers Naxalism which is a form of extremist violence, there is no reason not to think that it should also be applicable to all forms of extremist violence which includes major communal incidents. 

Any law can be misused. I cannot rule out the possibility of this law also being misused. What I am saying is that suppose if it is made applicable to cases of communal riots also, then everybody will keep quiet, he said.


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## Neo

*Pakistan demands India provide Mumbai evidence​*
By NAHAL TOOSI, Associated Press Writer  Wed Dec 17, 2008

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan  Pakistan sought to put some of the pressure over the Mumbai bloodshed on India, demanding Wednesday that its neighbor hand over "concrete evidence" against Pakistani citizens and groups allegedly involved in the terror attack.

*Officials have been saying for days that they need evidence to try suspects, but there has no sign India would provide any of its findings soon.*

The squabble epitomizes the distrust between the nuclear-armed countries, which have fought three wars in six decades. But leaders of both nations also have political problems from the assault that killed 164 people in India's financial capital.

Pakistan's government must maintain the support of a public easily angered by Indian complaints, yet it faces rising global concern about al-Qaida, Taliban and other Islamic militants operating on Pakistani soil. It also needs evidence to keep courts from freeing suspects.

India is trying to calm a public outraged by the Mumbai attack and alleged Pakistani complicity, and its investigators are dealing with shooting scenes scattered across the city. Officials also may worry that sharing evidence could compromise some intelligence methods.

*"There's a lack of trust and confidence in each other, in spite of saying that there's a common threat that both of us face," said Indian security analyst Ashok Mehta. "There's a conspicuous lack of confidence in sharing intelligence."*

*Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi said his government hasn't seen any information on the attack except for what has been reported by news media. That isn't sufficient for Pakistan to prosecute suspects, he said.*

*"India needs to provide concrete evidence for these investigations to move forward," Qureshi said. "We do not share evidence through the media. There are diplomatic channels for that."*

The United States and Britain have backed India's assertions that Lashkar-e-Taiba, an outlawed Pakistan-based militant group with alleged ties to Pakistani intelligence and al-Qaida, was behind the Mumbai attack. India also says the one gunman captured alive and nine who died came from Pakistan.

Besides arresting some suspects, Pakistan has shuttered offices of Jamaat-ud-Dawa, a charity that the U.N. recently branded as a front for Lashkar-e-Taiba.

The crackdown, especially on the charity, has prompted public protests, including one by dozens of children Wednesday in Karachi. Jamaat-ud-Dawa is popular among many Pakistanis for its schools, medical assistance and disaster relief.

*"Because the public at least doesn't know what the specific evidence was, the sympathy of the public is not necessarily with the government," said Tasnim Noorani, a former Pakistani interior secretary. "However, if they have the evidence ... the actions of the government of Pakistan would be that much more credible."*

Government leaders have been reluctant to acknowledge any of the attackers were Pakistani, even though a major Pakistani newspaper carried an interview with a man in a Pakistani village who confirmed the surviving attacker was his son.

Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari told British Broadcasting Corp. in an interview posted online Wednesday that reports of the living gunman's background were being investigated.

*"There've been disputed positions in the press," Zardari said. "So I would say the investigation is ongoing and I would not jump to a conclusion."*

Pakistani officials have steadfastly ruled out handing over any suspects to India. The stance reflects the need of the civilian government to avoid offending the public by seeming to bow to India or to the U.S., which is a major source of aid but is viewed warily by many Pakistanis.

*"Things have not been made easy by the Indian government  the way it acted, quite in haste, going public" with accusations, Pakistani political analyst Rasul Bakhsh Rais said. "A lot of people in positions here are demanding similar kinds of noises and accusing the government of buckling under pressure and not taking a firm nationalistic posture."*

A Pakistani defense analyst, Ayesha Siddiqa, said it was possible India "had no evidence" to share, but he added it was more likely that Indian officials were worried about giving away some of their methods, especially if it involved intelligence work.

The attack also gave Indian investigators a complicated case, with the deaths and destruction spread over three days.

Even Pakistan's foreign minister seemed to acknowledge those challenges.

"Obviously they have to have a watertight case," Qureshi told Dawn News television. "Obviously they are doing that and perhaps they are not ready yet."

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## Neo

*No proof of Pakistan link to Mumbai attacks: Zardari​*
LONDON (AFP)  Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari insisted in an interview with the BBC on Wednesday that there was no firm proof linking his country to last month's attacks on India's financial centre, Mumbai.

*Speaking to the British broadcaster from Islamabad, he said the investigations into the attacks were ongoing and he would "not jump to a conclusion" on who was responsible until they were complete.*

New Delhi has fingered "elements" in Pakistan for the attacks that left 172 people dead, and British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said militants from Pakistan-based group Laskhar-e-Taiba were responsible.

*"What we are saying is that we are willing to cooperate -- and you know like anybody else does, that investigation is an evolving process, it hasn't been long enough" to come to any conclusions, Zardari said.*

*He added: "I think we will hold our judgement till the proper investigation and conclusive evidence is shared between Pakistan and India, and we're hoping that that would happen because we've asked for a joint investigation."*

Put to him that the sole surviving gunman has been identified as a Pakistan national, the president said: "No, we don't know that, we haven't investigated that, we are investigating that position.

*"There have been disputed positions in the press... I would say the investigation is ongoing and I would not jump to a conclusion."*

However, he said his country was prepared to act if links to Pakistan emerged.

*"If that stage comes, and when it comes, I assure you that our parliament, our democracy, shall take the action properly deemed in our constitution and in our law," he said.*

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## Jihad

That would be about time, so much going on from India's side, so much anger at Pakistan for not doing enough, do you think it's strange? The GoP hasn't even received evidence.


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## Goodperson

No the proof should not be shared with Pakistan first, India should exhaust international forum first then finally share evidence with Pakistan. It is not an aggrieved party none of its citizens were harmed in Mumbai attacks.

What ever Pakistan reaction is seen is just assumptions only for domestic consumption there are no buyers for the same outside.

India has provided details of every terrorist to the media I doubt Pakistan has even conducted their background checks and as the reaction is negative that itself shows what response would India get after sharing the whole evidence.

First time a terrorist was caught alive when so many Indians and foreigners were killed and so much of Media glare.


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## roadrunner

Then there is no case against Pakistan until you provide this evidence. 

I hope your truth serum worked.


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## Neo

Goodperson said:


> No the proof should not be shared with Pakistan first, *India should exhaust international forum first *then finally share evidence with Pakistan. It is not an aggrieved party none of its citizens were harmed in Mumbai attacks.


You mean spread more propaganda?



> What ever Pakistan reaction is seen is just assumptions only for domestic consumption there are no buyers for the same outside.


Without proof you have no case, just assumptions. Only buyers are the media, not leaders.



> India has provided details of every terrorist to the media I doubt Pakistan has even conducted their background checks and as the reaction is negative that itself shows what response would India get after sharing the whole evidence.


As my FM stated, media isn't the official tool to share intelligence, there are proper channels and India hasn't used them. The ball is still in your court, rest us drama.



> First time a terrorist was caught alive when so many Indians and foreigners were killed and so much of Media glare.


Lets confirm his nationality first and we'll see. 
Btw the claim by Indian media that he wrote a letter to GoP has been refuted by Pak court.

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## PakShaheen79

*Mumbai * Murky Piece Of A Tangled Web*
Terrell E. Arnold
12-17-8
*Beginning on the evening of November 26, Mumbai, India, a city of 13 million people, was disrupted by a terrorist attack that was worse than anything it had ever before experienced in a long history of exposure to violence. Ten determined terrorists, equipped only with rifles, handguns and grenades, took the lives of nearly 200 people, defaced and nearly destroyed famous Mumbai landmark hotels, and wounded over 300 more people before they were stopped. It was a well-planned and executed piece of carnage that took Indian police and counterterrorism forces nearly sixty hours to bring to an end. *

Why it took so long to contain this attack of only ten shooters will remain a serious question, but the terrorists, only one of whom was taken alive, were obviously well prepared. They separated, attacked at least five separate sites, knew their way around the places they assaulted, and in some degree were aided by the early unwillingness of police to shoot back. Moreover, the terrorists apparently came prepared for the long haul with ample supplies of ammunition and bags of sliced almonds to stave off hunger. In that respect they did not behave like martyrs, although they certainly had reason to expect death. But the puzzles they left behind are certainly much larger than life. 

The official Indian narrative, at least as of now, is that the terrorists were members of a Pakistani group called Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT). That group is usually associated with the half-century old Indo-Pak struggle for Jammu and Kashmir, and it reportedly has a suicide group called the fidayeen. However, the principle link of the Mumbai attacks to the LeT is the confession of the surviving member of the group of ten. That statement appears to have been obtained after several hours of interrogation by Indian authorities who have no qualms about torture, and therefore the smooth and complete story that emerged could be as much if not more a matter of what he was led to say rather than what he confessed. We are unlikely to know. 

Pakistani authorities have not bought the story, and they have asked for proof. Meanwhile, they have rounded up a number of LeT members, but they have refused an Indian request to extradite the Let members to India. The LeT prisoners, say Pakistani authorities, will be dealt with under Pakistani law. 

There are many loose ends. The present narrative has the group arriving by a boat they seized earlier from its owner, coming ashore with all their gear in hand, and openly taking two taxis to their target destinations. That appears inconsistent with the report that they knew the sites they attacked very well and had well-planned approaches to them. Such preparation could mean either prior planning visits to the sites or the aid of people on site who provided planning information. Those preparations also plausibly suggest that the attacks were domestic. 

*Further inconsistencies have been introduced by police reports that one or more of the shooters had yellow wrist bands, a trademark associated with a domestic Hindu extremist group. Furthermore, so far the people arrested by Indian authorities in connection with the attacks have been Indian nationals. The inconsistencies lead knowledgeable observers of the India terrorism scene to assert that the Mumbai attacks were domestic in origin. 

Domestic roots for such an attack are not improbable. Over the past decade India has lost more than 50,000 casualties to terrorist/ insurgent attacks. Although they tend to be concentrated in two main areas, Jammu/Kashmir and the northeast region including major states of West Bengal and Assam, India has almost 200 terrorist, extremist, separatist groups. Many of these groups are small and/or inactive, but as many as a dozen Jammu/Kashmir groups are active and important, while about an equal number of group are active in the northeast. Hindu extremists have led brutal attacks on Muslims.* 

Sticking out in this landscape is a sub-continental reality of which few outsiders may be aware. Three former British territories (India, Pakistan and Bangladesh-the former East Pakistan) share numerous trans-border population problems. To begin with, the population of Pakistan is about 105 million, of which nearly 2 million are Hindus. On the Indian side of the frontier, Hindus dominate the country's 1.3 billion population, but there are an estimated 150 million Muslims of Indian nationality. In the east, Bangladesh has a Muslim population of roughly 150 million, but its Hindu minority (about 30% of the population when the territory was formed in 1946) has been systematically expelled and probably numbers no more than a million. 

Historically complicating this landscape are trans-border affiliations, loyalties, and periodic conflicts. Present states of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh are geographic products of the British retreat. While loyalties and tribal affiliations may extinguish or become less important in time, there are still strong Indian and Pakistani feelings about the region called the Punjab, now divided between India (roughly one third) and Pakistan. That region remains an unsettled ethnic and cultural mix as do Jammu and Kashmir, and the northeast region that mainly is defined by the Ganges River that flows through the Indian heart of it and the Brahmaputra River that flows out of the Himalayas, across India's state of Assam and through Bangladesh to the Bay of Bengal. The potential clashes in these regions are only partly about Hindu/ Muslim differences. Assamese groups, for example, want to secede from India. 

*One of the problems with assessing Mumbai is that there are political pros and cons with all the choices. Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh probably would prefer an outsider attack, because a domestic source, whether Hindu or Muslim, has enormous political implications. If his government has to go after Hindu extremists, for example, such prosecutions could undercut Congress party political chances. 


Singh probably understands the politics of the situation better than most. He was born in 1932 in the town of Gah in pre- independence Punjab in what is now Pakistan. He is the first member of the Sikh faith to become prime minister, and as a leader of India's Congress Party, he undoubtedly has struggled with the problems of minority religious affiliation that complicate Indian politics. Addressing a congress of jurists on December 13, he cited the history of deadly terrorist attacks across India in the past several years (cases of Hindu, Muslim and other domestic attacks) but said the problem needed to be approached with caution. His dilemma is that attacking Muslims on either side of the Indo/Pak frontier will unsettle communities on both sides of that frontier, and even proof of guilt-which is by no means obvious at this point-- is no defense against such consequences. *


The US War on Terrorism complicates the situation as well. US raids into Pakistan have angered many Pakistanis and threatened the stability of Pakistan's newly reinstalled democratic government. A crass reality of the post Mumbai decision environment is that US justification for continuing its operations in Afghanistan and its raids into Pakistan is supported by proof of a Mumbai attack by Pakistani extremists, but an indigenous Hindu or Muslim attack would be no help in that regard. If the US and Israel encourage and support an Indian attack on reported Lashkar-e-Taiba sites in Pakistan, the situation of that government would probably deteriorate further. 

 
*The reality of the Mumbai attacks is that they were a product of enduring racial, cultural and religious differences within regional societies as well as trans-border tensions and animosities that plague the entire subcontinent. Those conditions are not new, and they are by no means close to resolution. Realistically they cannot be resolved by mere exercises of police power or a heated up war on terrorism. Should India succumb to the temptation to respond by conducting raids into Pakistan against Lashkar-e-Taiba, that will only increase tensions between two nuclear-armed countries; it will also exacerbate Hindu-Muslim tensions within India and the rest of the subcontinent. *

*Reportedly, Indian authorities have asked for Israeli help in mounting an attack on LeT sites in Pakistan. If the Israelis respond to this nod, they will do so only with full US awareness and blessing. Such a move fits the US and Israeli models for fighting terrorism; under those models, national borders do not matter, and civilian casualties are unimportant. The brutal fact, however, is that even if such raids succeeded in eliminating LeT as a group, nothing would improve in India, tensions would mount between the two countries, and warfare could easily result between two nuclear powers in which either side could decide the way to end it is to go nuclear. A no more cheering prospect is that in the aftermath of Indian raids the already fragmented Pakistani political system would simply collapse, creating the first situation in which the government of a nuclear power loses control of its nuclear weapons and materials. Only the terrorists and their supporters would benefit from that outcome. 

Those prospects demand patience and careful action by concerned regional governments, but the situation requires total hands off by outsiders. Governance in Pakistan is fragile. It is not helped by US raids into Pakistani territory which weaken the authority of an already challenged government. An India raid could possibly cause Pakistanis to rally around their present democratic leadership, but it could as easily cause that government to disassemble. 

On the Indian side, Manmohan Singh knows that if he fails to look decisive his party's political prospects are dim. However, if he were to choose to attack the Hindu right that may have arranged, sponsored, or facilitated the Mumbai attacks, his party could well be voted out in the next election. This boils down to a situation in which the least costly response may be to stand still. That choice could take the form of investigating the attacks while buying as much post attack time as possible for matters to cool. This choice would be wise, but it takes a great deal of political nerve, perhaps more than may be available. * 
********** 

The writer is the author of the recently published work, A World Less Safe, now available on Amazon, and he is a regular columnist on rense.com. He is a retired Senior Foreign Service Officer of the US Department of State whose overseas service included tours in Egypt, India, Sri Lanka, the Philippines, and Brazil. His immediate pre-retirement positions were as Chairman of the Department of International Studies of the National War College and as Deputy Director of the State Office of Counter Terrorism and Emergency Planning. 

Mumbai ­ Murky Piece Of A Tangled Web


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## Goodperson

> You mean spread more propaganda?



Nope because Pakistan is not a agrieved party none of its citizens got injured or killed during Mumbai attacks.



> Without proof you have no case, just assumptions. Only buyers are the media, not leaders.



Investigations are on but still you need to act on leads. Its true with any criminal case too.



> As my FM stated, media isn't the official tool to share intelligence, there are proper channels and India hasn't used them. The ball is still in your court, rest us drama.



Its official tool for the public world over It has reaches inside Pakistan, Even your own media has revealed the truth. 



> Lets confirm his nationality first and we'll see.
> Btw the claim by Indian media that he wrote a letter to GoP has been refuted by Pak court.



I do not know the status of the letter or wy it was not presented to Pakistan but it seems some lawyer has taken up Ajmals case. Regarding Kasabs nationality it has been established.


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## dr.umer

*'ISI cleared of Mumbai involvement' ​*18 Dec 2008

The FBI has cleared Pakistan Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) of any involvement in last month's terror attack on India's financial hub. 

After interrogating the sole surviving gunman, The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) concluded that the ISI was cleared of any involvement in the Mumbai terror attacks on November 26, Pakistani daily The Dawn quoted diplomatic sources as saying on Thursday. 

Pakistani Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab was among a group of 10 armed men who went on a shooting rampage in more than 10 sites, including two luxury hotels, in Mumbai. 

Citing other sources, The Dawn said investigations had also revealed that the attackers had crossed the border from Pakistan, where the well-orchestrated plot was sketched by the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT). 

The ISI was accused of being involved in the Mumbai attacks due to its past associations with the LeT, which received CIA and ISI support to fight the soviet-backed government in Afghanistan. 

The CIA had built extensive bases for the LeT in Pakistan and Afghanistan to train thousands of guerrilla fighters, according to Frontline magazine. 

Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari has repeated asked India for concrete proof implicating the LeT in the attack, as tension between the two neighbors intensifies. 

The nuclear-armed nations already have a history of three wars since independence from Britain in 1947.


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## dr.umer

*US Department of State: Daily Press Briefing, 17 December 2008​*
Regarding Pakistan two questions were answered. 

Question: On Pakistan. There is some concern in India that Pakistan is not taking enough action against Jamaat-ud-Dawa, which is described as the front group to Lashkar e-Tayyiba. What's your reaction to that? Do you think that they are being sincere about their reaction to Jamaat-ud-Dawa?

*MR. WOOD: I think they're  the Pakistani Government is being very sincere. Look, they're on the front lines of terrorism, as we've said many times before. We've learned from our own experience about how some of these charitable organizations are tied into terrorist groups. This is something that they're going to have to disentangle.*

*But they've given us a very solemn commitment. They've told the Indians that they're going to do everything they can to help with the investigation in terms of trying to find out who did this and to prevent future attacks from happening. So we don't have any doubt that Pakistan is committed to trying to get to the bottom of this.*

QUESTION: You said the Pakistan Government is being very sincere. Do you think the Pakistan army is being sincere?

*MR. WOOD: I have no reason to doubt that. I mean, the Pakistani civilian government, you know  well, the Pakistani military submits to civilian government control, so we deal with the Pakistani Government. And we believe that they're, as I said, committed to trying to get to the bottom of this investigation and make sure these attacks don't happen. So I have no reason to think that the Pakistani army feels otherwise.*


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## voiceofaa

dr.umer said:


> *'ISI cleared of Mumbai involvement' ​*18 Dec 2008
> 
> The FBI has cleared Pakistan Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) of any involvement in last month's terror attack on India's financial hub.
> 
> After interrogating the sole surviving gunman, The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) concluded that the ISI was cleared of any involvement in the Mumbai terror attacks on November 26, Pakistani daily The Dawn quoted diplomatic sources as saying on Thursday.
> 
> Pakistani Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab was among a group of 10 armed men who went on a shooting rampage in more than 10 sites, including two luxury hotels, in Mumbai.
> 
> Citing other sources, The Dawn said investigations had also revealed that the attackers had crossed the border from Pakistan, where the well-orchestrated plot was sketched by the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT).
> 
> The ISI was accused of being involved in the Mumbai attacks due to its past associations with the LeT, which received CIA and ISI support to fight the soviet-backed government in Afghanistan.
> 
> The CIA had built extensive bases for the LeT in Pakistan and Afghanistan to train thousands of guerrilla fighters, according to Frontline magazine.
> 
> Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari has repeated asked India for concrete proof implicating the LeT in the attack, as tension between the two neighbors intensifies.
> 
> The nuclear-armed nations already have a history of three wars since independence from Britain in 1947.




Kisi waid (Hakim, Dr.) ko bulao gorio 
Inki nabz bhi dikhao gorio 
Inhain naaz hai bohot khud par 
Inhain aaena dikhao gorio


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## MastanKhan

Hi,

Most analysts are not taking into account the reaction by PAF if IAF struck any sites in pakistan. They have seemingly written off PAF or in their ignorance taken pakistan to be on the same level as afghanistan and india as that of the U S of A. The PAF will strike as hard or harder than the IAF in their initial response and that will automatically take the conflict to the next level. It is not a good thing to be at the next level.

I am very sure that the writer has intentionally left the resources of the PAF out of the picture and tried to show pakistan a weakling who will go nuclaer right from the gitgo.

The mumbai atacks were intentionally set up by someone to create a major rift amongst india and pakistan----was it motivated by al qaeda---let or was it the brainchild of the right wing hindu extremist. We all know the intellect of a young pakistani kid when it comes to religion----he is basically an idiot---you just have to wave the banner of islam in front of him and the kid may do the worst crimes possible in the name of islam----pakistani boys have the same mentality as that of a BULL when it looks at the RED flag in the hands of the 'matador'----you just have to recite something in 'arabic' which then is translated into killing trhe 'kafirs' and now you the recipe.

Can this 'recipe' be used by RAW or any other anti pakistan, pro india organization---absolutely---

It will be truly amazing to see the reaction when this suicide bomber or a terrorist killer goes to the other side ( dies )-----and then finds out that his or her trainer was a hindu fanatic who trained them to kill their own---what would be going through his mind----would their be enough conscience left in the killer to repent even after death---I doubt it---let me know what you think.


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## TOPGUN

Stop trying to always cover up the facts and the true story! EVIDENCE first then all the  later thats always the prob with you people ! we will and shall punish those that did this cowardly act but cant until and unless u stop this stupid blame game trying to fram Pakistan and its people and give hard hitting EVIDENCE anyone can say things just like the indian media has been bs'n and  all trash so lets see wat the Indian gov provides other then that just shut it for now


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## Awesome

Goodperson said:


> No the proof should not be shared with Pakistan first, India should exhaust international forum first then finally share evidence with Pakistan. It is not an aggrieved party none of its citizens were harmed in Mumbai attacks.
> 
> What ever Pakistan reaction is seen is just assumptions only for domestic consumption there are no buyers for the same outside.
> 
> India has provided details of every terrorist to the media I doubt Pakistan has even conducted their background checks and as the reaction is negative that itself shows what response would India get after sharing the whole evidence.
> 
> First time a terrorist was caught alive when so many Indians and foreigners were killed and so much of Media glare.


This is going to hit India on the foot. We'll keep saying this for months! Finally we would've said it enough times to make outsiders wonder maybe India has nothing but smoke to blow up everyone's rears.

If I were to sum up the efforts of Pakistan and India right now would be, how well can we convince outsiders. Not catching criminals... Just look like heroes at the end. It's so well reflected in your opening statement.

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## Zovc

There is no solid evidence, RAW staged it.


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## metalfalcon

ISI is cleared good, Really good

Inshallah Pakistani Govt will be cleared as well

As i Said before if Pakistani is not found guilty, _*Will GoP will sue Indian Media and GoI for false accusations.*_


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## Awesome

metalfalcon said:


> ISI is cleared good, Really good
> 
> Inshallah Pakistani Govt will be cleared as well
> 
> As i Said before if Pakistani is not found guilty, _*Will GoP will sue Indian Media and GoI for false accusations.*_


Give it a while, the whole thing would be reversed!


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## metalfalcon

Asim Aquil said:


> Give it a while, the whole thing would be reversed!



Can you be more specific, I mean did you meant ISI and We be carrying the Blame again.


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## indradhanush

Yes FBI has cleared ISI (congrats) but at the same time FBI has confirmed that all terrorists came from Pakistan including Kasav, who ever they are (non state actors who have trained and funded them) they should be brought to justice by GoP. But it is so confusing: one day a minister from Pakistan says JeM chief is under house arrest and then we read on paper another official from Pakistan claiming that this chief is free. We need tranparency to build trust.


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## metalfalcon

Asim Aquil said:


> Give it a while, the whole thing would be reversed!



Hey DUDE i just watched the MADAGASCAR 2 Movie and you have that same Penguin Avatar, Those penguins who are really tricky and Freaky and ......... you know what i mean, Just kidding mann dont mind plz no hard feelings 

Is India playing Games with us Like the penguins in MADAGASCAR movie.



> penguin 1:Estimated Time 6 to 9 months
> Penguin Leader :what 69 months
> penguin 1: i mean 6 to 9 months


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## metalfalcon

indradhanush said:


> Yes FBI has cleared ISI (congrats) but at the same time FBI has confirmed that all terrorists came from Pakistan including Kasav, who ever they are (non state actors who have trained and funded them) they should be brought to justice by GoP. But it is so confusing: one day a minister from Pakistan says JeM chief is under house arrest and then we read on paper another official from Pakistan claiming that this chief is free. We need tranparency to build trust.



We need transparency from you guyz as well, One day you Blame ISI, Next Day you Blame Pakistan Navy, Then come the Dawood Ibrahim Drama then there is a Incursion of Indian Jets (Forced Back by PAF immediatley, I know you will deny it and tell me ) _*What do you guyz really want and what is your Approach to achieve your Goals be clear on that, thank you.*_


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## indradhanush

metalfalcon said:


> We need transparency from you guyz as well, One day you Blame ISI, Next Day you Blame Pakistan Navy, Then come the Dawood Ibrahim Drama then there is a Incursion of Indian Jets (Forced Back by PAF immediatley, I know you will deny it and tell me ) _*What do you guyz really want and what is your Approach to achieve your Goals be clear on that, thank you.*_



yes exactly I meant transparency is needed on both sides. The kind of training these terrorists had indicates there is likely involvement of some intell agency. And these news of involvement of ISI/Navy have some in media only I haven't heard a govt official or a minister making such claims. But one thing is clear now all of them came from Pakistan.


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## Awesome

metalfalcon said:


> Can you be more specific, I mean did you meant ISI and We be carrying the Blame again.


No I meant that slowly they'll clear 99&#37; of the names they took before.


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## Awesome

metalfalcon said:


> Hey DUDE i just watched the MADAGASCAR 2 Movie and you have that same Penguin Avatar, Those penguins who are really tricky and Freaky and ......... you know what i mean, Just kidding mann dont mind plz no hard feelings
> 
> Is India playing Games with us Like the penguins in MADAGASCAR movie.


Be very careful of the Penguins...


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## Kasrkin

The fact the India has ignored Pakistan's repeated proposals for a joint investigation indicates that the Indians have something to hide. IMO who ever these people were, they were not THAT well trained to be designated Special Forces or professional military trained/equipped. They had no RPGs/LMGs/grenades/grenade launchers/body armor/military webbing...Heck all of them didn't even have AK-47s (atleast one of &#8216;em was roaming around with a pistol). Many terrorist organizations are capable of doing this and more, including those who operate in Pakistan&#8217;s tribal areas with alleged support from Indian intelligence. To me it&#8217;s no surprise that the FBI denied ISI having been behind this pointless attack, exactly who it is we&#8217;ll have to wait and see.


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## Kasrkin

> Mukherjee told Indian news channel CNN-IBN in an interview to be broadcast Sunday. "We are also investigating. *We have not come to any conclusion. Therefore, at this juncture, perhaps it would be premature *to share the evidence."



LOL, so now he says...


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## tamir

We don't need a clean chit from the FBI or any other department. Sad truth is, we have been blamed for previous stuff and will get blamed for unfortunately future incidents. 
India should stop assuming/blaming everything on Pakistan. Even if someone farts in India... it will be blamed on ... you guessed it ISI.

I have no hope in the current politicians..... Allah willing, maybe some future political setup can get Pakistan out of this begging cycle. I wish to see the day where Pakistan can catagorically tell the accusing party to "take a hike". I know I'm being very optimistic but one should not lose hope.

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## Kasrkin

No you're not being optimistic. Many nations defend their physical as well as ideological frontiers vehemently...but here our politicians and media and 'intellectuals' are too damn contemptuous of their own country to be of any use to their people. Things have to change, we have every right to expect them to&#8230;


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## roadrunner

This isn't important. 

Who are the FBI to clear anyone? 

All they've done is question Kasab and Kasab has denied any involvement with ISI. 

The worrying thing about this, is that the FBI are taking Kasab's word for evidence, while he's in the custody of the nut cracking Indian police! 

No wonder American intel was so poor on Iraq! 

I want to see evidence that can stand up in a court. Doesn't matter about ISI involvement. The Indians are trying to get away with murder. 

Pakistan should accept no less, not even a citizen of Pakistan has been proven to have been involved in the attacks in Mumbai

Pakistan should throw it ALL back at India, so that they don't make a habit of these silly little Purohit false flags.

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## asaad-ul-islam

tamir said:


> *Even if someone farts in India... it will be blamed on ... you guessed it ISI.*


hahahah  nicely said! we won't have a voice in the world unless our media (or should I say western intelligence assets) focus on project Pakistan's image, instead of just focusing on the army/intelligence agencies and putting corrupt politicians, like Zardari, in power.

let's take a look at our past. 

*Markets optimistic as Pakistan 'breaks IMF begging bowl forever'*
By Farhan Bokhari in Islamabad 

Published: November 22 2004 02:00 | Last updated: November 22 2004 02:00

Pakistan's business leaders expect the Karachi stock market to rise today, driven by the decision of Shaukat Aziz, prime minister, to end ahead of schedule the country's loan programme with the International Monetary Fund.

"The begging bowl has been broken forever," said Mr Aziz on Friday evening as he announced that Pakistan had declined the last two tranches from the fund of $260m (199.3m, £139.9m), due to be paid this month. The move ends a three-year loan programme with the IMF of $1.52bn, scheduled to end in December.

In measures aimed at lifting the Pakistani economy, Mr Aziz also removed a two-year freeze on recruitment in government services and ordered the creation of courts to resolve business disputes more quickly. .

"These measures have created a lot of optimism. There's bound to be a positive reaction across the board," said S.M. Muneer, former chairman of the Karachi Chamber of Commerce and Industry.

Mr Muneer said many business people expected the economy to get a boost as the country was freed of IMF loan conditions that forced the government to cut spending.

The Federation of Pakistan Chambers of Commerce and Industry - the largest national business body - said: "New opportunities for economic growth are likely to come up. There is a new emphasis on taking the economy forward."

Western economists warned that Pakistan's successful exit from the IMF programme must be followed by continued efforts from the government to reduce losses in the public sector, especially in the Water and Power Development Authority and the Karachi Electricity Supply Corporation.

"Pakistan's economic challenges have not ended," said a Washington-based economist. "A number of reforms still have to be put in place."

Pakistan signed a three-year loan programme with the IMF in 2001 after being on the brink of default following its maiden nuclear tests in May 1998. Those tests triggered economic sanctions from a number of industrialised nations and forced the government to freeze private deposits of about $11bn in onshore foreign currency accounts.

But in the past three years Pakistan's balance of payments position has improved significantly. The government's liquid foreign currency reserves have risen to more than $12bn, the equivalent of 10-11 months of imports.

The improvement in large measure is due to expatriate Pakistanis using regular banks to send funds home rather than the underground networks such as the hawala system.

FT.com / World - Markets optimistic as Pakistan 'breaks IMF begging bowl forever'


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## asaad-ul-islam

roadrunner said:


> This isn't important.
> 
> Who are the FBI to clear anyone?
> 
> All they've done is question Kasab and Kasab has denied any involvement with ISI.
> 
> The worrying thing about this, is that the FBI are taking Kasab's word for evidence, while he's in the custody of the nut cracking Indian police!
> 
> No wonder American intel was so poor on Iraq!
> 
> I want to see evidence that can stand up in a court. Doesn't matter about ISI involvement. The Indians are trying to get away with murder.
> 
> Pakistan should accept no less, not even a citizen of Pakistan has been proven to have been involved in the attacks in Mumbai
> 
> Pakistan should throw it ALL back at India, so that they don't make a habit of these silly little Purohit false flags.


do you remember how these so-called Pakistanis supposedly had ID cards in their pockets (like always, I guess the ISI was too dumb)?

The guy is stated to be 21. It is claimed that he left home 4 years ago i.e when he was 17. Voting age in Pakistan is actually 18 and onwards. 

CNIC - National Database and Registration Authority

check this out-

*Q. Who is eligible for the CNIC?
A. Every citizen of Pakistan aged 18 or above is eligible for the CNIC.

Q. What if I&#8217;m younger than 18 years of age?
A. You will need to be registered with your father&#8217;s Children Registration Certificate (CRC). *

how the hell did he have a card?


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## tamir

Kasrkin said:


> No you're not being optimistic. Many nations defend their physical as well as ideological frontiers vehemently...but here our politicians and media and 'intellectuals' are too damn contemptuous of their own country to be of any use to their people. Things have to change, we have every right to expect them to



I promise you that the day our society stops trying to be above the rest of their peers. You will see change.

These politicians or social high ups don't want people to be at their same level of wealth or social status. The middle income society feel the same way about lower income society. 

We have also gotten a little immune to the poverty in Pakistan. Look at it... we are here posting comments in the comfort of our homes..... while millions of our citizens young and old will sleep in the cold and on empty stomachs. How sad is that. All of us should try and make a difference. We need change from the grass root levels. 

Sorry guys don't mean to preach but just expressing my opinion.


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## Neo

*Seeing ISI through the Indian prism ​*
US Senator John Kerry was in New Delhi and then in Islamabad early this week as President-elect Barack Obama's special envoy. So far what we recently had here and in India as American callers, represented the Bush Administration.

Their concern about the rapidly deteriorating security situation in South Asia following the Mumbai terror attacks was understandable, but looking to the future we all believe that President George Bush is a man of yesterday. And so are his policies. The future belongs to Barack Obama and his team, in which Senator Kerry is expected to take an important position and play a leading role.

As he returns to Washington, Senator Kerry has been named chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, the slot vacated by Joseph Biden, the Vice President-elect. In the Obama administration it would be mainly Hillary Clinton-John Kerry combine that is likely to call the shots on foreign policy matters and not Joseph Biden, earlier billed as a potential inspirator of the president-elect's worldview in respect of foreign policy.

It is a measure of Senator Kerry's intellectual integrity that he is amenable to modifying and reforming his perspectives and perceptions in deference to logic and reason. Hence the difference in his statements about the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency made in New Delhi before meeting Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and after he had the talks with President Zardari in Islamabad.

"We would like to see an ISI that is reforming and brought completely under civilian control", he told the Indian Express ahead of his talks with Manmohan Singh. That had greatly pleased the Indian media hell-bent as it is on defaming Pakistan's premier intelligence agency.

But after meeting Zardari in Islamabad he told a select media group that 'no evidence had been found to link Mumbai terror attacks to the Pakistan government or the ISI... General Kiyani fully realises what needs to be done in the prevalent situation and so does the Director General of ISI Lieutenant General Shuja Pasha'.

This expression of neutrality and a balanced viewpoint had materialised despite the fact that India had sent post haste its foreign secretary, Shiv Shanker Menon, to the United States to dissuade President-elect Obama from appointing a special envoy on Kashmir. India is greatly worried over Barack Obama's regional security perspective in which Kashmir blinks as a flashpoint.

Of course, he shares India's anxiety over the role of non-state actors like Lashker-e-Taiba in breeding terrorism in South Asia, but he seems convinced also that as long as the Kashmir dispute remains unresolved such entities would remain in the field.

By projecting the Lashker as an errand boy of the ISI, the Indian government tries to tarnish the image of the Kashmiris' freedom struggle. Now that its campaign - conducted in close conjunction with Israel - to malign Pakistan's nuclear capability has fizzled out, New Delhi has turned its focus on the ISI. Hence the high agenda priority that the ISI received at Senator Kerry's talks with the Indian leadership.

Like all intelligence agencies, the Inter-Services Intelligence agency too has been the staple of a lot of myth and reality. Its stellar contribution in rolling out Soviet aggression from Afghanistan earned it the image of a world class institution. But the people of Pakistan were not greatly enamoured of its successes.

Thanks to its role as a political watchdog, bestowed upon it by the late President Z.A. Bhutto in the 70s by creating its Political Wing, which was enormously enlarged during the eleven years of Ziaul Haq's dictatorial rule, the ISI had become a tool of state oppression. But no more, as its notorious political wing has been abolished and the agency has reverted to its professional role of collecting intelligence on matters concerning national security.

Rightly then it remains under a sharp focus of India and some other anti-Pakistan countries. India would very much like to link it with Lashkar-e-Taiba and other extremist outfits. It is hoped the United States leaders would see through this game. It is necessary for better future of Pak-US relations that the Obama administration gives up the White House practice of seeing South Asian developments through the Indian prism.


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## Captain03

india should blame itself for the attacks i mean if they didnt torture the kashmiris these kind of terrorists would not be made


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## Bilsher007

indradhanush said:


> Yes FBI has cleared ISI (congrats) but at the same time FBI has confirmed that all terrorists came from Pakistan including Kasav, who ever they are (non state actors who have trained and funded them) they should be brought to justice by GoP. But it is so confusing: one day a minister from Pakistan says JeM chief is under house arrest and then we read on paper another official from Pakistan claiming that this chief is free. We need tranparency to build trust.



Look it's hightime you indians smell the coffee and look into your own collar and ADMIT THAT INDIA IS BREEDING GROUND FOR TERRORISTS. In Pakistan there is no such thing called HOMEGROWN TERRORISM unlike INDIA. However unfortunately there is foreign element of terrorists who we are fighting continuosly. This one survivor of terrorists involved in mumbai attacks is NOT PAKISTANI AND HIS NAME IS NOT AMIR AJMAL KASAB, HIS NAME IS AMAR SINGH. How come this person possessed mauritian passport as well ?. 

I don't want any indian on this forum calling this indian intelligence agency and indian hardline politcal groups sponsored terrorist being called PAKISTANI. I want mods to take action and give warning to those who come to this forum to spread lies. There is NOT A SINGLE PROOF TO SUGGEST HE IS PAKISTANI, UNLESS INDIAN AUTHORITIES GIVE PROOF TILL THAT TIME REFRAIN FROM CALLING HIM PAKISTANI. The people of faridkot have denied anyone by amir ajmal kasab from their town.


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## koolio

If India refuses to share evidence, its impossible for Pakistan let alone any other country, to prosecute any suspects and besides Pakistan and India do not have an extradition treaty, so Pakistan is not obliged to send any suspects to India, furthermore countries that have extradition treaties usually go through court proceedings, if a court finds that there is concrete evidence against the suspect he will be extradited to the country where he has committed crime and the defendant also has a right to appeal. If India has any credibility on the world stage it has to share evidence with Pakistan otherwise India will be made to look like a laughing stock.


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## Bilsher007

tamir said:


> We don't need a clean chit from the FBI or any other department. Sad truth is, we have been blamed for previous stuff and will get blamed for unfortunately future incidents.
> India should stop assuming/blaming everything on Pakistan. Even if someone farts in India... it will be blamed on ... you guessed it ISI.
> 
> I have no hope in the current politicians..... Allah willing, maybe some future political setup can get Pakistan out of this begging cycle. I wish to see the day where Pakistan can catagorically tell the accusing party to "take a hike". I know I'm being very optimistic but one should not lose hope.



It's about time we need a pakistani politcal leadership which takes a stance similar to what iranian political leadership takes and gives a tough signal to it's enemies. Pakistani politcs will need to get tougher and well focused on principles and be a true representative of the people. If pakistan withdraws a major part of it's army deployed in the western border towards afghanistan than US armed forces are DOOMED. Which is exactly what i propose and indians need to be given a strong signal so that they SHUT UP and think 10 times before opening their mouth infested full of worms. It's hightime politicians play their part not only maturely but also in a cunning and controlled aggressive manner. I am sick and tired of this stupid defensive, apologetic, lame,towing and pathetic approach. We should have by now sent all our ambassadors over the world to the right places in different countries to present out case regarding the allegations on us by the deceiving indians. Ambassadors based in all countries should have engaged print and electronic media alongwith foreign ministers of all nations. We should have prepared our case and started to head towards united nations (Even though it's a impotent authority). 

In the end if our voice is not heard then the hell with the so called world of USA, Uk, israel, india and some european nations. We need to strengthen our ties with central asian republics and possibly russia. At political level we need to work very hard to strengthen our image and voice.


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## echo 1

This is Bull S**t go take your fanatic crap out on someone else. Better yet dont do anything at all. Pakistan China Iran ex Soviet States and even Russia need to come down kick some serious a** and show the world whats up. India man you have got serious nurves bulls**tting about us and then saying we attacked you. How stupid are your leaders anyway.


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## BanglaBhoot

Says Russian intelligence

Russia believes that underworld don Dawood Ibrahim was directly involved in the Mumbai terror attacks and his network was used by the terrorists to carry out the multiple attacks.

Moscow, which has been sharing intelligence with New Delhi, further believes that Dawood's drug network, which runs through Afghanistan, was used to finance the terror attack.

Russia has gone public with its intelligence inputs, which point to the involvement of Dawood Ibrahim in the Mumbai terror attacks. Dawood is believed to be operating his vast network from Karachi.

Russia's federal anti narcotics service director said

"The gathered inputs testify that regional drug baron Dawood Ibrahim had provided his logistics network for preparing and carrying out the Mumbai terror attacks," said Russia's federal anti narcotics service director.

He had further said that the Mumbai attacks were a 'burning example' of how the illegal drug trafficking network was used for carrying out terror activities.

The Indian side, however, is keeping a tight lid on the involvement of Dawood Ibrahim, who is one of the criminals that India wants extradited from Pakistan.

The Daily Star - Details News


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## BanglaBhoot

*No proof attackers were from Pakistan*

Says Zardari

In a U-turn, President Asif Ali Zardari has said there is still no "real evidence" that the terrorists who attacked Mumbai came from Pakistan nor had it been established that the lone arrested attacker Mohammed Ajmal Amir Kasab hailed from the country's Punjab province.

"Have you seen any evidence to that effect. I have definitely not seen any real evidence to that effect," Zardari told BBC in an interview.

Zardari, who earlier acknowledged that the perpetrators of the Mumbai carnage of November 26 could be 'non-state' actors from Pakistan, made these remarks while responding to a question on assertions from India, US, Britain and other countries that the 10 terrorists who struck at Mumbai came from Pakistan.

On being told that the British Prime Minister Gordon Brown as well as Indian and Western intelligence agencies had stated that the Mumbai attack had originated from Pakistan, Zardari said: "Investigation is an evolving process. It has not been long enough for anybody to... Even the foreign minister of India has said they are still investigating.

The Daily Star - Details News


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## ejaz007

*Killing of Indian terrorist squad chief conspiracy*
Storm in Lok Sabha over ministers claim
Friday, December 19, 2008 


** Red-faced Congress swiftly dissociates itself from statement, will seek explanation from Minority Affairs Minister AR Antulay*

NEW DELHI: Indian Minority Affairs Minister Abdul Rahman Antulay has caused a storm in the Lok Sabha on Wednesday and Thursday, suggesting that the killing of Anti-Terrorism Squad chief Hemant Karkare in Mumbai during last months terror attacks was a conspiracy.

*The minister said he was killed due to his leading role in the investigations of the 2006 Malegaon bombings that killed eight people outside a mosque and have been blamed on Hindu nationalists.*

Anyone trying to go to the roots of terror has always been a target, he said, calling for a separate inquiry into Karkares death. There is more than what meets the eye, he said, adding that the top official went to Cama Hospital instead of the Taj and Oberoi hotels, and was wearing a substandard bulletproof vest.

Creating five minutes of pandemonium as Antulay sat quietly, opposition legislators said they were not satisfied with his clarification in the House the previous day that he did doubt the terrorists had killed Karkare.

Speaker Somnath Chatterjee tried in vain to pacify the agitated legislators, who continued to protest even after Parliamentary Affairs Minister Vyalar Ravi intervened and assured them the government would look into the matter.

Congress: A red-faced Congress swiftly dissociated itself from the minister. We dont accept the inference and the innuendo that underline the statement (by Antulay)...We dont agree with bringing this case under a cloud, Times of India newspaper quoted a Congress spokesman as saying. Citing its sources in the party, it said the Congress would seek an explanation from the minister.

Statement: External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee said the government would make a statement on Antulays remarks either today (Friday) or before the end of the Lok Sabha on December 23. iftikhar gilani/agencies/ daily times monitor


Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## ejaz007

*BJP and Shiv Sena seek Antulays scalp*

NEW DELHI: Indias BJP and Hindu nationalist Shiv Sena pressed in the Lok Sabha on Wednesday and Thursday that Minority Affairs Minister AR Antulay be sacked for suggesting the killing of Anti-Terrorism Squad chief Hemant Karkare in the Mumbai terrorist attacks was a conspiracy. Shiv Sena leader Anant Geete, who had raked up Antulays remarks in the House the previous day, said the Indian premier should come to House to explain his minister. We want his resignation, added BJPs Adityanath Yogi, going on to make an abusive remark against Antulay, which the speaker expunged. iftikhar gilani

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## donrahul

Oh Please.. such a waste of bandwidth, after all the people concerned here posted on Ajmal Kasab's Nepali connection. First u accuse its a hindu terror plot. The evidence -- RED Kalava stuff and the death of Karkare. Now u say, he is a honest pakistani citizen nabbed from Nepal. Then Yu guys ban the JUD on the basis of this hindu-pakistani-Nabbed frm Nepal guy's assertions that he was groomed by the LET..


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## EagleEyes

Indian actions "sending team not to Pakistan" and "Indian Air Force violations" is a clear sign that India has other intentions.


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## SSGPA1

Robotech,

GoP didn't allow SY or others to investigate because there is no proof that Kasab is a Pakistani. First GoI (not the media) needs to prove that.

UN never said that they have evidence against groups based in Pakistan. JD is banned with the approval of GoP.

If there was any evidence then four Pakistani individuals would have been added to the UN's terrorist list.

All govt.'s lie. US Presidents lied from involvement in Vietnam to Monica. Indians lie about Kashmir, Siachin, Gujrat and many other things.

*As a mater of fact the entire India nation lie to itself when they say there is no problem in kashmir and all fuss is due to Pakistani intruders.*

We as a nation are looking within our society to resolve our issues. We don't blame India for all that happens in Pakistan.

I wish India could show the same maturity.

BTW, Indian minister of minorities has endorsed Pakistan's view on Karkaray murder.

I HAVE SAID FROM THE BEGINING THAT ATS CHIEF AND THE ENCOUNTER SPECIALIST WERE KILLED BY HINDU EXTREMISTS WITHIN INDIAN SECURITY SETUP.


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## maqsad

Robotech said:


> In Kshmire Only PAK Citizens are fighting ..... and they trained in ***, while few Kashmir are they who made a head of these organization as a ploy.



Get the hell out of kashmir you lying, deceptive crooked war criminals. You have already killed 80,000 kashmiris there so how retarded are you to think they were all pakistanis? Even if some of them were pakistanis they were probably from Azad Kashmir and resisting the illegal occupation by invading Indian troops. Get the hell out of kashmir, you aren't wanted there by the people which is why you need 700,000 troops to hold down a tiny area because if the troops decreased they would all rise up and cut your throats and kick you out. You made the Mumbai attacks up because you don't have any legitimate reason to be in kashmir so the only choice was to reinforce your position with more lies. The Indian army is in kashmir based on lies and they need lies and false flag ops to stay there.


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## indradhanush

Bilsher007 said:


> Look it's hightime you indians smell the coffee and look into your own collar and ADMIT THAT INDIA IS BREEDING GROUND FOR TERRORISTS. In Pakistan there is no such thing called HOMEGROWN TERRORISM unlike INDIA.
> 
> who However unfortunately there is foreign element of terrorists who we are fighting continuosly. This one survivor of terrorists involved in mumbai attacks is NOT PAKISTANI AND HIS NAME IS NOT AMIR AJMAL KASAB, HIS NAME IS AMAR SINGH. How come this person possessed mauritian passport as well ?.
> 
> I don't want any indian on this forum calling this indian intelligence agency and indian hardline politcal groups sponsored terrorist being called PAKISTANI. I want mods to take action and give warning to those who come to this forum to spread lies. There is NOT A SINGLE PROOF TO SUGGEST HE IS PAKISTANI, UNLESS INDIAN AUTHORITIES GIVE PROOF TILL THAT TIME REFRAIN FROM CALLING HIM PAKISTANI. The people of faridkot have denied anyone by amir ajmal kasab from their town.



my dear friend he has beenn interrogated in detail by FBI and the former has confirmed that

1. kasav is Pakistani, no wonder your PM accepts role of non state actors from your soil.
2. Both UK news paper observer and your own TV Geo have done investigation and people of his village recognised him not only this his father also recognised him.

what else proof you want, if these were not true UN wont have put sanctions on terrorist organisations like JuD.

If Pakistan is not breeding ground of terrorism why had Albright called Pakistan an international migraine.


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## roopesh

Guys its a mistake from pak to support dawood. Its not acceptable


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## thorosius

*Mumbai * Murky Piece Of A Tangled Web*

Terrell E. Arnold
12-17-8

Beginning on the evening of November 26, Mumbai, India, a city of 13 million people, was disrupted by a terrorist attack that was worse than anything it had ever before experienced in a long history of exposure to violence. Ten determined terrorists, equipped only with rifles, handguns and grenades, took the lives of nearly 200 people, defaced and nearly destroyed famous Mumbai landmark hotels, and wounded over 300 more people before they were stopped. It was a well-planned and executed piece of carnage that took Indian police and counterterrorism forces nearly sixty hours to bring to an end. 

Why it took so long to contain this attack of only ten shooters will remain a serious question, but the terrorists, only one of whom was taken alive, were obviously well prepared. They separated, attacked at least five separate sites, knew their way around the places they assaulted, and in some degree were aided by the early unwillingness of police to shoot back. Moreover, the terrorists apparently came prepared for the long haul with ample supplies of ammunition and bags of sliced almonds to stave off hunger. In that respect they did not behave like martyrs, although they certainly had reason to expect death. But the puzzles they left behind are certainly much larger than life. 

The official Indian narrative, at least as of now, is that the terrorists were members of a Pakistani group called Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT). That group is usually associated with the half-century old Indo-Pak struggle for Jammu and Kashmir, and it reportedly has a suicide group called the fidayeen. However, the principle link of the Mumbai attacks to the LeT is the confession of the surviving member of the group of ten. That statement appears to have been obtained after several hours of interrogation by Indian authorities who have no qualms about torture, and therefore the smooth and complete story that emerged could be as much if not more a matter of what he was led to say rather than what he confessed. We are unlikely to know. 

Pakistani authorities have not bought the story, and they have asked for proof. Meanwhile, they have rounded up a number of LeT members, but they have refused an Indian request to extradite the Let members to India. The LeT prisoners, say Pakistani authorities, will be dealt with under Pakistani law. 

There are many loose ends. The present narrative has the group arriving by a boat they seized earlier from its owner, coming ashore with all their gear in hand, and openly taking two taxis to their target destinations. That appears inconsistent with the report that they knew the sites they attacked very well and had well-planned approaches to them. Such preparation could mean either prior planning visits to the sites or the aid of people on site who provided planning information. Those preparations also plausibly suggest that the attacks were domestic. 

Further inconsistencies have been introduced by police reports that one or more of the shooters had yellow wrist bands, a trademark associated with a domestic Hindu extremist group. Furthermore, so far the people arrested by Indian authorities in connection with the attacks have been Indian nationals. The inconsistencies lead knowledgeable observers of the India terrorism scene to assert that the Mumbai attacks were domestic in origin. 

Domestic roots for such an attack are not improbable. Over the past decade India has lost more than 50,000 casualties to terrorist/ insurgent attacks. Although they tend to be concentrated in two main areas, Jammu/Kashmir and the northeast region including major states of West Bengal and Assam, India has almost 200 terrorist, extremist, separatist groups. Many of these groups are small and/or inactive, but as many as a dozen Jammu/Kashmir groups are active and important, while about an equal number of group are active in the northeast. Hindu extremists have led brutal attacks on Muslims. 

Sticking out in this landscape is a sub-continental reality of which few outsiders may be aware. Three former British territories (India, Pakistan and Bangladesh-the former East Pakistan) share numerous trans-border population problems. To begin with, the population of Pakistan is about 105 million, of which nearly 2 million are Hindus. On the Indian side of the frontier, Hindus dominate the country's 1.3 billion population, but there are an estimated 150 million Muslims of Indian nationality. In the east, Bangladesh has a Muslim population of roughly 150 million, but its Hindu minority (about 30% of the population when the territory was formed in 1946) has been systematically expelled and probably numbers no more than a million. 

Historically complicating this landscape are trans-border affiliations, loyalties, and periodic conflicts. Present states of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh are geographic products of the British retreat. While loyalties and tribal affiliations may extinguish or become less important in time, there are still strong Indian and Pakistani feelings about the region called the Punjab, now divided between India (roughly one third) and Pakistan. That region remains an unsettled ethnic and cultural mix as do Jammu and Kashmir, and the northeast region that mainly is defined by the Ganges River that flows through the Indian heart of it and the Brahmaputra River that flows out of the Himalayas, across India's state of Assam and through Bangladesh to the Bay of Bengal. The potential clashes in these regions are only partly about Hindu/ Muslim differences. Assamese groups, for example, want to secede from India. 

One of the problems with assessing Mumbai is that there are political pros and cons with all the choices. Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh probably would prefer an outsider attack, because a domestic source, whether Hindu or Muslim, has enormous political implications. If his government has to go after Hindu extremists, for example, such prosecutions could undercut Congress party political chances. 

Singh probably understands the politics of the situation better than most. He was born in 1932 in the town of Gah in pre- independence Punjab in what is now Pakistan. He is the first member of the Sikh faith to become prime minister, and as a leader of India's Congress Party, he undoubtedly has struggled with the problems of minority religious affiliation that complicate Indian politics. Addressing a congress of jurists on December 13, he cited the history of deadly terrorist attacks across India in the past several years (cases of Hindu, Muslim and other domestic attacks) but said the problem needed to be approached with caution. His dilemma is that attacking Muslims on either side of the Indo/Pak frontier will unsettle communities on both sides of that frontier, and even proof of guilt-which is by no means obvious at this point-- is no defense against such consequences. 

The US War on Terrorism complicates the situation as well. US raids into Pakistan have angered many Pakistanis and threatened the stability of Pakistan's newly reinstalled democratic government. A crass reality of the post Mumbai decision environment is that US justification for continuing its operations in Afghanistan and its raids into Pakistan is supported by proof of a Mumbai attack by Pakistani extremists, but an indigenous Hindu or Muslim attack would be no help in that regard. If the US and Israel encourage and support an Indian attack on reported Lashkar-e-Taiba sites in Pakistan, the situation of that government would probably deteriorate further. 

The reality of the Mumbai attacks is that they were a product of enduring racial, cultural and religious differences within regional societies as well as trans-border tensions and animosities that plague the entire subcontinent. Those conditions are not new, and they are by no means close to resolution. Realistically they cannot be resolved by mere exercises of police power or a heated up war on terrorism. Should India succumb to the temptation to respond by conducting raids into Pakistan against Lashkar-e-Taiba, that will only increase tensions between two nuclear-armed countries; it will also exacerbate Hindu-Muslim tensions within India and the rest of the subcontinent. 

Reportedly, Indian authorities have asked for Israeli help in mounting an attack on LeT sites in Pakistan. If the Israelis respond to this nod, they will do so only with full US awareness and blessing. Such a move fits the US and Israeli models for fighting terrorism; under those models, national borders do not matter, and civilian casualties are unimportant. The brutal fact, however, is that even if such raids succeeded in eliminating LeT as a group, nothing would improve in India, tensions would mount between the two countries, and warfare could easily result between two nuclear powers in which either side could decide the way to end it is to go nuclear. A no more cheering prospect is that in the aftermath of Indian raids the already fragmented Pakistani political system would simply collapse, creating the first situation in which the government of a nuclear power loses control of its nuclear weapons and materials. Only the terrorists and their supporters would benefit from that outcome. 

Those prospects demand patience and careful action by concerned regional governments, but the situation requires total hands off by outsiders. Governance in Pakistan is fragile. It is not helped by US raids into Pakistani territory which weaken the authority of an already challenged government. An India raid could possibly cause Pakistanis to rally around their present democratic leadership, but it could as easily cause that government to disassemble. 

On the Indian side, Manmohan Singh knows that if he fails to look decisive his party's political prospects are dim. However, if he were to choose to attack the Hindu right that may have arranged, sponsored, or facilitated the Mumbai attacks, his party could well be voted out in the next election. This boils down to a situation in which the least costly response may be to stand still. That choice could take the form of investigating the attacks while buying as much post attack time as possible for matters to cool. This choice would be wise, but it takes a great deal of political nerve, perhaps more than may be available. 

********** 

The writer is the author of the recently published work, A World Less Safe, now available on Amazon, and he is a regular columnist on rense.com. He is a retired Senior Foreign Service Officer of the US Department of State whose overseas service included tours in Egypt, India, Sri Lanka, the Philippines, and Brazil. His immediate pre-retirement positions were as Chairman of the Department of International Studies of the National War College and as Deputy Director of the State Office of Counter Terrorism and Emergency Planning. 

---
Mumbai ­ Murky Piece Of A Tangled Web


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## josh18

MOD EDIT

The auther is contradicting himself:

*Ten determined terrorists, equipped only with rifles, handguns and grenades, took the lives of nearly 200 people, *

*Moreover, the terrorists apparently came prepared for the long haul with ample supplies of ammunition and bags of sliced almonds to stave off hunger*

Then: *Further inconsistencies have been introduced by police reports that one or more of the shooters had yellow wrist bands, a trademark associated with a domestic Hindu extremist group. *

I also wear 'Kalwa' and its not just a wrist band for me. Does this mean I am a terrorist?


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## tamir

indradhanush said:


> If Pakistan is not breeding ground of terrorism why had Albright called Pakistan an international migraine.



If Pakistan is an "international migraine" then the United States is a "royal pain is the ***"!
Bloody champions of human rights...... turn a blind eye to the most serious issues like Kashmir and Palestine.
So anything a US official says is the word of God? 

Tell me indradhanush don't the Kashmiris deserve what they were promised.... India is a member of the UN, isn't it?


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

indradhanush said:


> If Pakistan is not breeding ground of terrorism why had Albright called Pakistan an international migraine.



Albright's comment is nothing more than an opinion, to try and make more of it is silly.

Lets stick to the subject though please. Pakistan and its institutions have been cleared, and while it may rankle some Indians, get over it.

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## thorosius

If you were really trying to make a point you missed it by miles!


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## dabong1

Goodperson said:


> India did not need to inform China about Mumbai terror the matter is hot there is plenty of information available.
> India only had to apprise about terror faced by China on its borders. That seemed to have worked and you see the result. China did change its historic stand.
> 
> This I think is a clever move by India, It put China and rest of the world against Pakistan, This made Pakistani leadership feel vulnerable. They had little or no friends left to vouch for them. Pakistan leadership made statement for domestic consumption but took opposite actions.
> India understands this may not work for long as no leadership in Pakistan can survive without taking anti India stand.





Goodperson said:


> Does not reflect in the stance taken by China at UN for JuD ban.



Pakistan has not officially acknowledged any role by either Jamaat-ud-Dawa or Lashkar-e-Taiba in the Mumbai attacks, saying it was waiting for India to share information. But *Pakistan will not oppose United Nations sanctions against the organization or its leader as a &#8220;good-will gesture,&#8221; said a Pakistani diplomat,* who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/world/10nations.html?_r=1&ref=world

The chinese as a brother country did what pakistan asked.


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## koolio

donrahul said:


> Oh Please.. such a waste of bandwidth, after all the people concerned here posted on Ajmal Kasab's Nepali connection. First u accuse its a hindu terror plot. The evidence -- RED Kalava stuff and the death of Karkare. Now u say, he is a honest pakistani citizen nabbed from Nepal. Then Yu guys ban the JUD on the basis of this hindu-pakistani-Nabbed frm Nepal guy's assertions that he was groomed by the LET..



Its your very own minister who has doubts about the way Hemant karkare has been assasinated dont try to act stupid, its your very own media who has started all the conspiracy theories straight from the word go first second.

Don't try to live in denial that you do not have home grown internal problems, even as yet there is no smoking gun to your pathetic media claims.


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## Solomon2

I make it a rule to accept _Qui bono?_ arguments only when nothing else is or can be available. That isn't the case here with India, but it is the case with Pakistan. 

Face it: Pakistan is being extremely un-cooperative by preventing persons of interest from being questioned and insisting that any evidence about the possible Pakistani origin of the attackers must come from foreign, not Pakistani, sources. That's rather disingenuous because the relevant records are in Pakistan, and not anywhere else. 

Pakistan is stonewalling. If nobody in Pakistan saw benefit in this terrorist attack on India, somebody sure sees a benefit in Pakistan covering up any possible public investigation of it on Pakistani soil. And that, until more information from Pakistan is available, is answer enough to the topic question of this thread.


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## Syed TALHA SHAH

these indians r so stupid superstitious guys.. 9/11 pakistan z responsible.. 7/7pakistan z responsible.. MOMBAY BASTS pakistan z responsible.... rise of TALIBAN pakistan z responsible... NORTH KOREA NUCLEAR BOMB pakistan z responsible.... IRAN NUCLEAR Preparation pakistan z responsible..... *den conclusion z* PROUD TO BE A PAKISTANI


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## Solomon2

I think it is unlikely the FBI doesn't "clear" people or organizations this quickly. This story seems to originate in Iranian and Pakistani media only. (There are otehr stories reporting the opposite.) If it was for real, it certainly would have been leaked in Washington, in accordance with the current practice of leaking information as a weapon to further discredit the outgoing Bush Administration.


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## rubyjackass

News for people here...
Antuley resigned.


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## Imran Khan

rubyjackass said:


> News for people here...
> Antuley resigned.



posted already in new thread


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## ajpirzada

part 1
YouTube - Alex Jones & Webster Tarpley - Mumbai Attacks Plans to break up Pakistan 1 / 2

part 2
YouTube - Alex Jones & Webster Tarpley - Mumbai Attacks Plans to break up Pakistan 2 / 2


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## ajpirzada

must watch for both pakistanis and indians


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## A1Kaid

Great videos, Thanks for sharing, very revealing Geo-Political discussion. I am well aware of what RAW, MOSSAD, and CIA is doing, they are the one's orchestrating these attacks you see in Pakistan today it is in their interest to destabilize the only Muslim Nuclear Power and China's Top Military Ally. Ultimately the Western Civilization is trying to prevent the rise of Eastern Powers like the Ummah/Caliphate hence the strategic occupation of Iraq (the center of the Middle East), and NATO/US occupation of Afghanistan and installing a Anti-Pakistani leader Karzai. *Western powers also fear that they will be replaced by China as the World's main power, Western Countries fear the rise of China*. All Of this is Geo-Politics And I hope to God ISI knows all about this I'm sure they do, ISI must immediately respond and pull a few strings of their own. If they don't act now then I'm afraid it maybe be to late in the near future...





*Now I have a Counter Strategy for Pakistan and China to follow.*

1) *Pakistan and China should arm the Maoist in Northern India *and raise havoc in India and destabilize India's northern region.

2) Then Pakistan *ISI should raise Hell on the Bangladeshi-Indian Border*; engender cross-border raids, *kind of like a Kargil but this time between Bangladesh and India in India's city of Calcutta*.

3) *Pakistan should for God Sake befriend the Taliban once again and replenish them, to overthrow Karzai's government if we do this we will deliver a major setback to the Anglo-American Geo-Political Agenda in the region*. See they want to create trouble for Pakistan on both sides East and West, we should overthrow this *pseudo-Democratically falsely elected Government of Karzai*, and jail his henchmen. *Send the Taliban into Afghanistan with Stinger Missiles, with ammo, Sniper rifles, IED's, grenades, RPG's, radios, and other munitions.*

4) Pakistani ISI should go *gather young Muslim Men from Arabia, and other Muslim regions*, train them and arm them and have them *fight in Afghanistan against NATO troops and US troops*, and send many of them to the *outskirts of Kashmir, and attack Indian outpost*.

5) Pakistan should encourage Mujahideen in CARS region to *destroy the IAF airbase in Tajikistan*, to put an end to the "*Northern Threat*" (my words). *Mujahideen has defeated the Soviet Union, defeated the Roman Armies in Arabia, defeated the Persians, don't tell me they can't destroy IAF's Airbase in Tajikistan.*

*
I hope these words will reach the ISI HQ!!!*

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## jeypore

The Indian army says it has killed three militants in the Doda district of Indian-administered Kashmir on Friday, including a top commander of Lashkar-e-Toiba, the group linked to the Mumbai terror attack.

One solider was killed in what police officials say was a gun battle between militants and troops that took place in the Gundha area of the Doda district in Jammu province.

Officials have identified one of the killed militants as Iqbal Malik -- who is believed to be a senior commander of Lashkar-e-Toiba, a group that has been fighting against Indian rule in divided Kashmir. "Based on specific intelligence input, yesterday around evening, afternoon and evening, the area was cordoned off near Gundha, and in the ensuing firefight, security forces eliminated three militants this morning around 9.30. Three AK rifles, 6 AK grenades, 12 rounds of AK ammunitions and some other items have been recovered from the site," said S.N. Acharya, an army spokesman in Jammu.

Although Lashkar-e-Toiba's activities have mostly been limited to attacking Indian military installations in Kashmir, India blames the group for involvement in the recent terror attack in Mumbai.

The group has denied the charges, but acting on international pressure, Pakistan has cracked down on Lashkar and Jammat-ud-Dawah, designated as a front for Lashkar.

Authorities deployed thousands of troops in the Kashmiri summer capital Srinagar on Friday to prevent protests called by Muslim separatists ahead of the final phase of state elections.

Separatist groups had urged a total boycott of the polls, saying they will strengthen India's hold over the region.

But the first six rounds of voting have seen more than 50 percent turnout in the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley.

The restrictions prevented Friday prayers in Kashmir's biggest mosque for the seventh week in a row.

Kashmir's chief cleric, Mirwaiz Umar, says authorities are infringing on religious rights of people. "Basic human rights are being are being violated, not only politically but also the basic right of an individual to pray collectively is being denied for the last so many weeks. Also we believe that there is tremendous amount of military interference in day to day lives of the people."

The final round is elections on December 24 will be in Srinagar -the most sensitive district, along with Jammu and Samba districts.

VOA News - India Says It Killed One of Top Commanders of Group Linked to Mumbai Attack


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## hasang20

false claims trying to cover up a big fail.


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## Captain03

probably killed innocent kashmiris once again


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## roopesh

He may be INNOCENT but POOR guy had a GUN in hand. Got screwd. Its a law no one except mililtay can carry GUN. as simple as that.


oooooooooooooooooooooohoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.....Guess what I become Leutenant.. no more 2nd..........................


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Solomon2 said:


> I think it is unlikely the FBI doesn't "clear" people or organizations this quickly. This story seems to originate in Iranian and Pakistani media only. (There are otehr stories reporting the opposite.) If it was for real, it certainly would have been leaked in Washington, in accordance with the current practice of leaking information as a weapon to further discredit the outgoing Bush Administration.


To paraphrase your comments to represent an equally valid view IMO; "If it was a lie for propaganda purposes, it certainly would have been leaked in Washington, in accordance with the current practice of leaking information as a weapon to further discredit XYZ entity.''

Why are we even bothering for a 'clearance' here? 

The argument should be whether evidence clearly indicating culpability exists, and guilt can be proven. The GoP, ISI or any other entity stand 'cleared' till that moment.


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## ajpirzada

ur ideas are exactly wat pakistan should be doing. the problem in pakistan's case is not the army and the ISI but our leadership which is just here to please americans.
btw it seems that our gov has changed some of its strategy. suicide attacks have gone down in last 2 months but at the same time attacks on US NATO goods which pass through pak have increased. more than 200 of their humvees were being destroyed in 3 days and this all happened at a container terminal near peshawar. such attacks have never happened and i can bet that our forces could have stopped them if they wanted to. in response to these attacks our PM only gave one simple statement which was that the security of american cargo is the responsibility of security companies and thats it. Also few days back thousands of pakistanis marched against allowin US nato supplies to pass through pak. truck drivers have already given up that they will not drive trucks carryin US nato supplies. 
supporting taliban in afghanistan will be the best move and will force US to leave the country. also afghan talibans can be used to eliminate every single indian soldier who is there in afghanistan. 
we cant do much at the moment after these mumbai attacks. if a war breaks out bw india and pakistan, we might end up seeing quite interestin results. though pak will be hit hard but security situation within india will get screwed. bec pak will have no other option except to sign a treaty with pakistani talibans who are only waitin for that moment, taliban attacks inside afghanistan will increase. durin war pak can also use talibans to blow up some of indina counslates in afghanistan. also suicide bombers(according to one of the tribal leader) can be infiltrated into india who can cause havoc there by carryin out bombin at some key millitary instalments. i am not sure wat exactly can ISI do at india bangladesh border. 
sounds lik an interesting plan to get rid of some of our serious problems. but for this to happen our leadership needs to have some faith in God and not america. also they will have to get one thing in their mind that this all cant be done without sufferin some heavy loses in the short term. 
seriously speakin no one helped pakistan more than china after this mumbai attack. china's assuring of moral, financial and material support was a big morale booster for all pakistanis

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## hasang20

A1Kaid said:


> Great videos, Thanks for sharing, very revealing Geo-Political discussion. I am well aware of what RAW, MOSSAD, and CIA is doing, they are the one's orchestrating these attacks you see in Pakistan today it is in their interest to destabilize the only Muslim Nuclear Power and China's Top Military Ally. Ultimately the Western Civilization is trying to prevent the rise of Eastern Powers like the Ummah/Caliphate hence the strategic occupation of Iraq (the center of the Middle East), and NATO/US occupation of Afghanistan and installing a Anti-Pakistani leader Karzai. *Western powers also fear that they will be replaced by China as the World's main power, Western Countries fear the rise of China*. All Of this is Geo-Politics And I hope to God ISI knows all about this I'm sure they do, ISI must immediately respond and pull a few strings of their own. If they don't act now then I'm afraid it maybe be to late in the near future...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Now I have a Counter Strategy for Pakistan and China to follow.*
> 
> 1) *Pakistan and China should arm the Maoist in Northern India *and raise havoc in India and destabilize India's northern region.
> 
> 2) Then Pakistan *ISI should raise Hell on the Bangladeshi-Indian Border*; engender cross-border raids, *kind of like a Kargil but this time between Bangladesh and India in India's city of Calcutta*.
> 
> 3) *Pakistan should for God Sake befriend the Taliban once again and replenish them, to overthrow Karzai's government if we do this we will deliver a major setback to the Anglo-American Geo-Political Agenda in the region*. See they want to create trouble for Pakistan on both sides East and West, we should overthrow this *pseudo-Democratically falsely elected Government of Karzai*, and jail his henchmen. *Send the Taliban into Afghanistan with Stinger Missiles, with ammo, Sniper rifles, IED's, grenades, RPG's, radios, and other munitions.*
> 
> 4) Pakistani ISI should go *gather young Muslim Men from Arabia, and other Muslim regions*, train them and arm them and have them *fight in Afghanistan against NATO troops and US troops*, and send many of them into on the *outskirts of Kashmir, and attack Indian outpost*.
> 
> 5) Pakistan should encourage Mujahideen in CARS region to *destroy the IAF airbase in Tajikistan*, to put an end to the "*Northern Threat*" (my words). *Mujahideen has defeated the Soviet Union, defeated the Roman Armies in Arabia, defeated the Persians, don't tell me they can't destroy IAF's Airbase in Tajikistan.*
> 
> *
> I hope these words will reach the ISI HQ!!!*



damn dude whered you get these ideas +1


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## A1Kaid

hasang20 said:


> damn dude whered you get these ideas +1



Well I contemplate attack plans, strategies, war history, and many other things. I have dedicated a lot of my study time to this field of Geo-Politics and especially our region.

I would like to reiterate my previous. *Whether we Pakistanis and Muslims like the Taliban or not we MUST befriend them once again and replenish them, train and arm them to defeat and cause havoc amongst NATO troops/US troops*, and overthrow this US installed pseudo-Democratic Government of Karzai in Afghanistan, *even Pres. Musharraf* who many call a moderate leader had problems getting along with the US puppet. 

India's RAW agents are operating in Afghanistan *we CAN CONFIRM THIS!* The question is what are they doing there? They are gathering intelligence, buying and lobbying in Afghanistan for more Pro-Indian policies from the Afghan Government but more importantly more Anti-Pakistani policies. *India's RAW is creating hatred amongst some locals and arming them to attack Pakistan*, they are certainly doing this in Balochistan to, ever wonder who is ARMING the Baloch rebels (beyond AK-47's), even after Pakistani army has destroyed much of their weapon depots; It is Indian money and India's RAW.

MOSSAD and CIA are also intermingling in many of our affairs. They are also engaging in sabotage in Pakistan, again it is in their interest to destabilize Pakistan, some suggest once Pakistan is destabilize it will give Western Countries a reason send troops into Pakistan and "secure" and "snatch" what they want...

*This War In Afghanistan is Primarily a War Against Pakistan. Don't you Ever Forget it.*


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## Zovc

^ In a place like IoK i think alot of people carry weapons for safety.


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## haviZsultan

Allrite... posting the 3rd time... spread this video around Pakistanis. Download it off Zamzar and tell the World the truth and that you do not believe the Indian version of events and stand against their media campaign.


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## Awesome

Zovc said:


> ^ In a place like IoK i think alot of people carry weapons for safety.


Now where was the LeT guy killed again? Did I hear this right? INDIAN Administered Kashmir?

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## third eye

A1Kaid said:


> Great videos, Thanks for sharing, very revealing Geo-Political discussion. I am well aware of what RAW, MOSSAD, and CIA is doing, they are the one's orchestrating these attacks you see in Pakistan today it is in their interest to destabilize the only Muslim Nuclear Power and China's Top Military Ally. Ultimately the Western Civilization is trying to prevent the rise of Eastern Powers like the Ummah/Caliphate hence the strategic occupation of Iraq (the center of the Middle East), and NATO/US occupation of Afghanistan and installing a Anti-Pakistani leader Karzai. *Western powers also fear that they will be replaced by China as the World's main power, Western Countries fear the rise of China*. All Of this is Geo-Politics And I hope to God ISI knows all about this I'm sure they do, ISI must immediately respond and pull a few strings of their own. If they don't act now then I'm afraid it maybe be to late in the near future...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Now I have a Counter Strategy for Pakistan and China to follow.*
> 
> 1) *Pakistan and China should arm the Maoist in Northern India *and raise havoc in India and destabilize India's northern region.
> 
> 2) Then Pakistan *ISI should raise Hell on the Bangladeshi-Indian Border*; engender cross-border raids, *kind of like a Kargil but this time between Bangladesh and India in India's city of Calcutta*.
> 
> 3) *Pakistan should for God Sake befriend the Taliban once again and replenish them, to overthrow Karzai's government if we do this we will deliver a major setback to the Anglo-American Geo-Political Agenda in the region*. See they want to create trouble for Pakistan on both sides East and West, we should overthrow this *pseudo-Democratically falsely elected Government of Karzai*, and jail his henchmen. *Send the Taliban into Afghanistan with Stinger Missiles, with ammo, Sniper rifles, IED's, grenades, RPG's, radios, and other munitions.*
> 
> 4) Pakistani ISI should go *gather young Muslim Men from Arabia, and other Muslim regions*, train them and arm them and have them *fight in Afghanistan against NATO troops and US troops*, and send many of them to the *outskirts of Kashmir, and attack Indian outpost*.
> 
> 5) Pakistan should encourage Mujahideen in CARS region to *destroy the IAF airbase in Tajikistan*, to put an end to the "*Northern Threat*" (my words). *Mujahideen has defeated the Soviet Union, defeated the Roman Armies in Arabia, defeated the Persians, don't tell me they can't destroy IAF's Airbase in Tajikistan.*
> 
> *
> I hope these words will reach the ISI HQ!!!*



The ISI has aleady tried these...

In any case , I cannot think of a better way by which Pak will ' self destruct" itself than this.Its compareable to a man stuck in a **** pot & wanting to pull the flush !!

Good bye cruel world !!


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## Awesome

Robotech said:


> Yes , US and UK Media always use world Indian Admin and PAK admin territory.


I know that, but I was pointing that LeT commanders are being found in INDIAN controlled areas, not Pak controlled areas.

As the JuD spokeman claimed on TV, the LeT is a Kashmiri group that they used to have ties with but stopped once the ban was put on them.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Asim Aquil said:


> Now where was the LeT guy killed again? Did I hear this right? INDIAN Administered Kashmir?



 You beat me too it.

I believe someone in the GoP said this a while back after Mumbai, that most of the active LeT leadership was in IOK.


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## Flintlock

^The top LeT leadership is in Pakistan, as are those who planned the Mumbai attack.

There is nothing which suggests that the killed LeT commander organized the Mumbai attack.

Simple english guys. Learn to understand it.


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## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> ^The top LeT leadership is in Pakistan, as are those who planned the Mumbai attack.
> 
> There is nothing which suggests that the killed LeT commander organized the Mumbai attack.
> 
> Simple english guys. Learn to understand it.


There is nothing to suggest anything except for Ajmal Kasab's alleged words.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Flintlock said:


> ^The top LeT leadership is in Pakistan, as are those who planned the Mumbai attack.
> 
> There is nothing which suggests that the killed LeT commander organized the Mumbai attack.
> 
> Simple english guys. Learn to understand it.



How is what I wrote contradictory to this comment in the article:

"Officials have identified one of the killed militants as Iqbal Malik -- *who is believed to be a senior commander of Lashkar-e-Toiba*,"


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## Flintlock

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> How is what I wrote contradictory to this comment in the article:
> 
> "Officials have identified one of the killed militants as Iqbal Malik -- *who is believed to be a senior commander of Lashkar-e-Toiba*,"



(Asim) Don't try to dissociate JuD from LeT and label it an Indian group.


----------



## Awesome

Flintlock said:


> (Asim) Don't try to dissociate JuD from LeT and label it an Indian group.


They have never been lawfully (as)'sociated'


----------



## jeypore

Asim Aquil said:


> Now where was the LeT guy killed again? Did I hear this right? INDIAN Administered Kashmir?




All these terrorist groups does have links in India to help them carry out there terrorist attack. That is nothing new, every terrorist attack have some inside help.

I am impressed though, that Indian gov't is hitting this internal sleepers cell hard, and getting ride of all these garbages. If India keeps doing this, it will be very hard for any Let, Jud, or whatever is out there to do any terrorist attacks in India.


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## linkinpark

The terrorists are in a dream world thinking that they will liberate Kashmir. They couldn't do it in 6 decades and they cannot do it in future as well. Good that IA is encountering these scums.


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## hasang20

linkinpark said:


> The terrorists are in a dream world thinking that they will liberate Kashmir. They couldn't do it in 6 decades and they cannot do it in future as well. Good that IA is encountering these scums.



ye because Indias arent the man of thier words.


----------



## Kismat

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> You beat me too it.
> 
> I believe someone in the GoP said this a while back after Mumbai, that most of the active LeT leadership was in IOK.



Hmm.. I thought it was the pakistan government that had carried out operations using even helicopter gunships against alleged LeT camps in ***. Or now do you deny that too. Then surely, all the LeT terrorists cannot be in J&K.

However, India has been claiming cross border terrorism for sometime now, so it makes sense for people to cross over from the border and still get killed in J&K.


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## HAIDER

Now on every innocent muslim dies in Kashmir will be militant and recovering gun is not big deal. Killing a person and through gun next to him and call him media guys and show them .....another Pakistani-Kashmiri militant killed....
Isn't that easy ?


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## Black Stone

Deaths from Mumbai 'police error'

Guests trapped in a Mumbai hotel seized by gunmen last month have told the BBC they were given instructions by police that may have led to more people dying. 

A survivor who had been hiding at the Taj Mahal Palace hotel said some guests were shot and killed by the militants after police said it was safe to leave. 

The senior policeman in charge of the operation in the hotel has denied the allegations against his officers. 

The attacks left at least 173 people dead, including nine of the 10 gunmen. 

India blames Pakistan-based militants Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) for the 26 November attacks. 

LeT and the Pakistani government have denied any involvement. 

Two of the hotels caught up in the attacks, the Trident-Oberoi and Taj Mahal Palace, are to re-open on Sunday. 

Armed guards and sniffer dogs have been stationed at both hotels and X-ray machines are to screen guests' bags. 

*'Suspicious' *

A prominent Mumbai gynaecologist, Dr Prashant Mangeshikar, was trapped in the Taj Mahal hotel along with hundreds of other guests as gunmen stormed into the building, firing indiscriminately. 

Terrified, he and others barricaded themselves into a room and waited. 

Eventually, in the early hours of the morning, police officers made it through to where they were hiding and told people it was safe to leave the hotel because the gunmen were cornered on another floor. 

Some went ahead but Dr Mangeshikar held back. 

"I was a little suspicious that the police were actually sending these guys down a different route where the terrorists were supposed to be," he told the BBC's Adam Mynott. 

"I refused to move away and the people who ran ahead of me, about 20 or 30 of them, all of them died." 

A dress designer from the city says her aunt was shot dead and her cousin seriously wounded because they followed police instructions to try to leave. 

The designer, Shilpa, described the police conduct as disgraceful. 

They had no right, she said, to risk people's lives. 

*Hotels re-open *

The senior policeman in charge of the operation in the hotel has denied these allegations against his officers. 

But they add to growing criticism of the police and how they responded to the attack, says our correspondent. 

The government of India's Maharashtra state has already announced an investigation into two senior policemen over alleged failure to act on warnings of the attacks. 

India's interior minister and Maharashtra state chief minister have already resigned. 

Pakistan's President Asif Ali Zardari said claims that the sole surviving attacker had been identified by his own father as coming from Pakistan had not been proven. The man has been named as Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab and is in Indian police custody.


----------



## BanglaBhoot

Guests trapped in a Mumbai hotel seized by gunmen last month have told the BBC they were given instructions by police that may have led to more people dying.

A survivor who had been hiding at the Taj Mahal Palace hotel said some guests were shot and killed by the militants after police said it was safe to leave.

The senior policeman in charge of the operation in the hotel has denied the allegations against his officers.

The attacks left at least 173 people dead, including nine of the 10 gunmen.

India blames Pakistan-based militants Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) for the 26 November attacks.

LeT and the Pakistani government have denied any involvement.

Two of the hotels caught up in the attacks, the Trident-Oberoi and Taj Mahal Palace, are to re-open on Sunday.

Armed guards and sniffer dogs have been stationed at both hotels and X-ray machines are to screen guests' bags.

'Suspicious'

A prominent Mumbai gynaecologist, Dr Prashant Mangeshikar, was trapped in the Taj Mahal hotel along with hundreds of other guests as gunmen stormed into the building, firing indiscriminately.

Terrified, he and others barricaded themselves into a room and waited. 

Eventually, in the early hours of the morning, police officers made it through to where they were hiding and told people it was safe to leave the hotel because the gunmen were cornered on another floor.

Some went ahead but Dr Mangeshikar held back.

"I was a little suspicious that the police were actually sending these guys down a different route where the terrorists were supposed to be," he told the BBC's Adam Mynott.

"I refused to move away and the people who ran ahead of me, about 20 or 30 of them, all of them died."

A dress designer from the city says her aunt was shot dead and her cousin seriously wounded because they followed police instructions to try to leave.

The designer, Shilpa, described the police conduct as disgraceful.

They had no right, she said, to risk people's lives.

Hotels re-open

The senior policeman in charge of the operation in the hotel has denied these allegations against his officers.

But they add to growing criticism of the police and how they responded to the attack, says our correspondent.

The government of India's Maharashtra state has already announced an investigation into two senior policemen over alleged failure to act on warnings of the attacks.

India's interior minister and Maharashtra state chief minister have already resigned.

Pakistan's President Asif Ali Zardari said claims that the sole surviving attacker had been identified by his own father as coming from Pakistan had not been proven. The man has been named as Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab and is in Indian police custody. 

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Deaths from Mumbai 'police error'


----------



## Cheetah786

Guests trapped in a Mumbai hotel seized by gunmen last month have told the BBC they were given instructions by police that may have led to more people dying. 

A survivor who had been hiding at the Taj Mahal Palace hotel said some guests were shot and killed by the militants after police said it was safe to leave. 

The senior policeman in charge of the operation in the hotel has denied the allegations against his officers. 

The attacks left at least 173 people dead, including nine of the 10 gunmen. 

India blames Pakistan-based militants Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) for the 26 November attacks. 

LeT and the Pakistani government have denied any involvement. 

Two of the hotels caught up in the attacks, the Trident-Oberoi and Taj Mahal Palace, are to re-open on Sunday. 

Armed guards and sniffer dogs have been stationed at both hotels and X-ray machines are to screen guests' bags. 

'Suspicious' 

A prominent Mumbai gynaecologist, Dr Prashant Mangeshikar, was trapped in the Taj Mahal hotel along with hundreds of other guests as gunmen stormed into the building, firing indiscriminately. 

Terrified, he and others barricaded themselves into a room and waited. 

Eventually, in the early hours of the morning, police officers made it through to where they were hiding and told people it was safe to leave the hotel because the gunmen were cornered on another floor. 

Some went ahead but Dr Mangeshikar held back. 

"I was a little suspicious that the police were actually sending these guys down a different route where the terrorists were supposed to be," he told the BBC's Adam Mynott. 

"I refused to move away and the people who ran ahead of me, about 20 or 30 of them, all of them died." 

A dress designer from the city says her aunt was shot dead and her cousin seriously wounded because they followed police instructions to try to leave. 

The designer, Shilpa, described the police conduct as disgraceful. 

They had no right, she said, to risk people's lives. 

Hotels re-open 

The senior policeman in charge of the operation in the hotel has denied these allegations against his officers. 

But they add to growing criticism of the police and how they responded to the attack, says our correspondent. 

The government of India's Maharashtra state has already announced an investigation into two senior policemen over alleged failure to act on warnings of the attacks. 

India's interior minister and Maharashtra state chief minister have already resigned. 

Pakistan's President Asif Ali Zardari said claims that the sole surviving attacker had been identified by his own father as coming from Pakistan had not been proven. The man has been named as Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab and is in Indian police custody. 

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Deaths from Mumbai 'police error'

Looks like some one was trying to have as many killed as possible.


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## BanglaBhoot

_India is keeping 'open' the option of a military strike on Pakistani soil even as the two hotels attacked in Mumbai reopened their doors. _

As the Taj Mahal Palace hotel and the nearby Trident-Oberoi invited guests through their doors following the attacks that killed more than 170 people, the Indian government made clear that it held Pakistan responsible.

"Terrorism remains a scourge for our region. If a country [Pakistan] cannot keep the assurances that it has given, then it obliges us to consider the entire range of options that exist to protect our interests and people from this menace," said Pranab Mukherjee, the Indian foreign minister.

Mr Mukherjee and the defence minister A K Antony met India's three service chiefs and senior security officials on Saturday to consider all possible scenarios against their nuclear rival and neighbour, which they believe has given shelter to Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Islamist group accused of masterminding the Mumbai attacks.

Guests have already begun to trickle into the Trident, with about 100 of the 550 rooms booked and all four restaurants operational for the first full day of business in just over three weeks.

Earlier a private, multi-faith ceremony "to pray for solace and a safer future in the days ahead" was held at the hotel.

At the Taj over 1,000 guests including leading businessmen and celebrities attended a private reception before the reopening of 268 rooms and seven restaurants in the 105-year old waterfront hotel, which is a landmark in India's commercial capital.

The owners have vowed to restore the Taj to its former glory after it was ravaged by fire, bullets and grenades as gunmen fought commandos in a battle lasting almost three days.

Meanwhile, the BBC reported that guests trapped in the Taj when the violence erupted on Nov 26 were shot and killed by the gunmen after police said it was safe for them to leave.

"I was a little suspicious that the police were actually sending these guys down a different route where the terrorists were supposed to be," said Dr Prashant Mangeshikar, who was trapped in the hotel along with hundreds of other guests.

"I refused to move away and the people who ran ahead of me, about 20 or 30 of them, all of them died," he said.

The Mumbai police have denied the claim. 

India threatens Pakistan as Mumbai hotels reopen - Telegraph


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## slugger

*Prayers and flowers mark Mumbai hotel opening*



> *A multi-faith prayer ceremony marked the reopening on Sunday of Mumbai's Trident hotel,* one of the sites of last month's terror attacks, with scanners and roses greeting guests as they made their way into the gleaming lobby.
> 
> The hotel's 550 rooms, three restaurants and the bar were opened following *Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist prayers in the lobby* which three weeks ago was strewn with broken glass and streaks of blood. Guests held pink roses and staff stood with hands folded on the staircase leading to the adjacent Oberoi hotel which remains closed, as religious verses were chanted.
> 
> "We are feeling sad as we are reminded of the events, but we are also happy that the hotel is open again," said Rashmi Mehra, a regular at the Frangipani restaurant, who lost a friend in the Nov 26-29 attacks in which 32 guests and staff were killed.
> 
> "We are going to see if we can get a table for lunch -- *we were told it's fully booked."*
> 
> *Enquiries for rooms and restaurant bookings have been pouring in,* although hotel authorities said on Saturday that cancellation rates have been 30-35 percent following Islamist militant attacks that killed at least 179 people.
> 
> The nearby historic Taj Mahal Hotel, site of a 60-hour siege, *will throw open its doors later on Sunday to more than 1,000 clients and guests for a gala reception.*
> 
> *"WELCOME HOME"*
> 
> Sunday's newspapers carried a large advertisement with the stunning dome of the Taj Mahal and a headline that said: "Welcome home again."
> 
> Authorities at the Trident said *at least 100 rooms would be occupied at the hotel, a favourite of foreign business executives, and the restaurants were expected to be full.*
> 
> *"A guest walking in will find no trace of what happened,"* Rattan Keswani, president of the Trident Hotels said.
> 
> "We believe the time has come to look forward to the future. Now, the fears of travellers and governments that have issued travel advisories must be allayed so people will return to Mumbai."
> 
> Damage to the Oberoi hotel was still being assessed, and it might take six-seven months to reopen, Keswani added.
> 
> Baggage scanners, metal detectors, sniffer dogs and armed police behind sandbags are positioned at the entrance to the hotel, with guests also being frisked. The Trident is working with a security agency to put in place systems in Mumbai and in other locations, Keswani said.
> 
> "There are all kinds of deterrents in place, but can anyone have avoided an armed assault of that nature? Probably not."
> 
> At Leopold Cafe, another of the 10 sites that were attacked, r*egulars and curious visitors have flocked back, despite the bullet holes that are still visible in its walls and windows.*



*Source*


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## Captain03

they still havent given the world any evidence of pakistan being involved in the mumbai attacks
so basically their just being idiots right now by trying to threaten us


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## thorosius

*'Deaths from Mumbai police error'*

Guests trapped in a Mumbai hotel seized by gunmen last month have told the BBC they were given instructions by police that may have led to more people dying. 

Police told a group hiding in the Taj Mahal Palace hotel that it was safe to leave the building, a survivor said. 

But members of the group were shot and killed by militant gunmen as they were making their way out. 

The senior policeman in charge of the operation in the hotel has denied the allegations against his officers. 

'Suspicious' 

A prominent Mumbai gynaecologist, Dr Prashant Mangeshikar, was trapped in the Taj Mahal hotel along with hundreds of other guests as gunmen stormed into the building, firing indiscriminately. 

Terrified, he and others barricaded themselves into a room and waited.

Eventually, in the early hours of the morning, police officers made it through to where they were hiding and told people it was safe to leave the hotel because the gunmen were cornered on another floor. 

Some went ahead but Dr Mangeshikar held back. 

"I was a little suspicious that the police were actually sending these guys down a different route where the terrorists were supposed to be," he said. 

"I refused to move away and the people who ran ahead of me, about 20 or 30 of them, all of them died." 

A dress designer from the city says her aunt was shot dead and her cousin seriously wounded because they followed police instructions to try to leave. 

The designer, Shilpa, described the police conduct as disgraceful. 

They had no right, she said, to risk people's lives. 

The senior policeman in charge of the operation in the hotel has denied these allegations against his officers. 

But they add to growing criticism of the police and how they responded to the attack in which more than 170 people were killed. 

Listen to Adam Mynott's full report on BBC World ServiceNewshour on 21 December at 1200, 2000 or 2100 GMT.

---
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Deaths from Mumbai 'police error'


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## masterofsea

This is a reasonable reply. This world need people like him for peace.


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## Pk_Thunder

* Pakistan acted responsibly after Mumbai attacks: Mike Mullen*​
Updated at: 2229 PST, Monday, December 22, 2008




ISLAMABAD: U.S. chairman joint chiefs of staff, Admiral Mike Mullen in his meeting with Pakistan Chiefs of Army Staff Ashfaq Pervez Kayani on Monday said Pakistan acted responsibly following attacks carried out in Mumbai.

General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani has said Pakistan is doing its best to ease the tension with India but a befitting response will be given if war is thrust upon us.

Admiral Mike Mullen said the U.S. will also play its role towards lessening tension between the two countries.

Pak Army Chief said Pakistan played a responsible role after the Mumbai attacks. We want peace with India on equal level but no compromise will made on Pakistans defence, he added.

The meeting also discussed the matter of providing security to the Nato supplies.

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## Hayreddin

So say U.S. officials. "US: India prepared for Pakistan attack, say Pentagon officials," from AKI, December 15 (thanks to C. Cantoni):

Washington, 15 Dec. (AKI) - India began preparations to attack Pakistan in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks, Pentagon officials told US media on Monday. Unnamed defence officials cited by CNN said the Indian Air Force was carrying out preliminary preparations for airstrikes, after the deadly bombings in India's commercial capital that killed over 170 people and injured close to 300 in November.

One official said that India's Air Force 'went on alert', while another said that preliminary preparations can put India in a position to launch airstrikes against suspected terror camps in Pakistan.

US officials made their remarks after an Indian aircraft reportedly violated Pakistani airspace twice on Saturday. Tensions between the nuclear neighbours have risen following the Mumbai attacks.

India says the Pakistan-based group Lashkar-e-Toiba is to blame for the bombings that targeted two luxury hotels and a Jewish centre. However, Pakistan has denied any involvement in the attacks, but has pledged to work with the Indian investigation....

And that cooperation has been going along just swimmingly.


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## mDumb

Flintlock said:


> Oh so China is peaceful now, is it?
> 
> Forgotten Tibet already?
> 
> I'm reading about riots against the police and the administration almost every other day in China - and that's just the stuff that gets reported.
> 
> And lets not mention the violence perpetrated by the State.
> 
> P.S. Change that American flag to the red one.



You must be ****** huh? What about Tibet? Who did the killing or the violence first? So you would let these terrorists run rampant in Tibet?

And you ****** must be peace loving, huh? Look at what India did to Kashmiris, Assamese, Muslims, etc.


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## Hayreddin

The Indian's Upcoming Illegal War Of Aggression India May Still Strike At Islamic Republic Of Pakistan PDF Print E-mail
Written by Pakistan News :: Pakistan Daily 
Saturday, 20 December 2008 02:14
India may have ruled out the military option against Pakistan in the aftermath of Mumbai terror attacks but the international intelligence community continues to believe that strikes in Pakistani Kashmir and elsewhere could still happen.
Global intelligence service Stratfor, in its latest report, said, "Indian military operations against targets in Pakistan have in fact been prepared and await the signal to go forward."

It added, "These most likely would take the form of unilateral precision strikes inside Pakistan-administered Kashmir, along with special forces action on the ground in Pakistan proper."

The private sector intelligence service said that unlike the massive movements of 2002 during Operation Parakram, India's preparations this time were more under the radar and not visible to the world at large. Its only indication was the fact that the Border Security Force (BSF) has been put on high alert on the western sector as well as the eastern sector  this paramilitary force's main mandate would be to prevent infiltration.

"Sources have indicated to Stratfor that New Delhi is going through the diplomatic motions in order to give Pakistan the opportunity to take care of the militant problem itself  but the Indians know that Islamabad has neither the will nor the capability to address their concerns," Stratfor said.

Three weeks after the attacks, India has gone out of its way to reassure everyone that it is not thinking of military action on Pakistan. This was most recently conveyed by Indian high commissioner to Pakistan Satyabrata Pal to Awami National Party chief Afsandyar Wali Khan in Islamabad earlier this week. But India continues to tell all its international interlocutors that its patience will not last long, particularly if Islamabad cannot crack down on terrorism.

India's actions thus far have been to build a kind of international consensus that the attacks were sourced in Pakistan. It has led to a huge spurt in international pressure on Pakistan to "do more" to combat terrorism. Almost every member of the international community also believes that the next attack in India would see the gloves come off.


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## PakSniper

India has shown a-lot of tough talk in the past, this is no different. One thing India should know "India isn't Israel and Pakistan isn't Lebanon". India itself can expect Pakistan AF strikes on their land, in a justified manner.


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## SherdiL!

PakSniper said:


> India has shown a-lot of tough talk in the past, this is no different. One thing India should know "India isn't Israel and Pakistan isn't Lebanon". India itself can expect Pakistan AF strikes on their land, in a justified manner.



Paksniper they can though talk all they want but its not helpfull it just mainly because of elections in thier country.


Pakistan Zindabaad


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## pardesifr

Remeber it is not a Bollywood movie  when i see indian channel I feel liek they are in a movie

Pakistan Zindabaad


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## H2O3C4Nitrogen

&#8220;To me, I confess, [countries] are pieces on a chessboard upon which is being played out a game for dominion of the world.&#8221;Lord Curzon, viceroy of India, speaking about Afghanistan, 1898

to be honest i still dont think that india will do such a mistake .... of launching a full scale war
but the option of a short term milletary scenario is 500&#37; inevitable
i beleive their r some other elements in this whole game of INDO-PAK tention .
Our true enemy who is till hiden from most of us is playing the card of india and wnats of to measur 
1 how much united we are 
2 How would our politicians and our armed forces will react
3 and they will be watcing our every move . If we activate any Nuclear Missile they will certinly know whre our nuclear arsenell is placed even, if they dont know they will probabally guess it out .

4. wat will be the rection of taliban 
5 wat will be the reaction of CHINA , IRAN , Saudia Arabia , Bangladesh and SIRILANKA and perhaps Russia
The enemy of which i m talkin abt is also behind the killing of Benezir Bhutto and is responicible for Bankrupting our Nation so that we could go to IMF.

Our Enemy is in the process of getting information abt us so that they could role the dice and play their big cards efficiently . India is one of their Cards . and they are playing it very well

There is millteray terM called " EXTERIOR MANEOVER " 
WHICH SAYS YOU HAVE TO GET INFO ABT UR ENEMY ONCE GOT ISOLATE UR ENEMY AND TRY TO HIT IT WITH A LOW FORCE AND MEASURE ITS REACTION. IF THERE IS ANY STRENTH IN IT ELIMINATE IT USING ANY OTHER METHOD EXCEPT MILLETARY. ONECE DID . KILL UR ENEMY WITH ALL THE POWER U HAVE. 


INDIA ALSO KNOWS US . AFTERS ALL THEY FAOUGHT THREE WARS WITH US ... HOW THEY UNDERESTIMATE US SO MUCH. ITS A GAME BEING PLAYED ON INTERNATIONAL LEVEL .

RIGHT NOW WE ARE ISOLATED . LOCAL PEOPLE ARE FIGHTING A BLOODY WAR AGAINST US . OUR ECONOMY IS DOOMED . AND OUR ARMED FORCES DEMORELIZED .

I BELIEVE THIS NATION IS BLESSED WITH GREAT PEOPLE .
AND IF WE TACKLED ,WENT OUT THIS GAME MATURELY AND UNHARMED WE WILL DEFFINATELY BECOME THE GREATEST NATION ON THIS PLANET. AND I BELIEVE WE WILL... INSHAALLAH


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## Imran Khan

Interpol chief meets Malik 


ISLAMABAD ( 2008-12-23 12:41:06 ) :The chief of global police agency Interpol on Tuesday met with interior ministry chief after pledging to help India investigate last month's attacks in Mumbai.

Ronald Noble met with Rehman Malik, who has been leading Pakistan's counterterrorism efforts, to discuss both the Mumbai investigation and the devastating September suicide attack on the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad.

Noble was to hold a press conference after his talks with Malik, interior ministry spokesman Shahidullah Baig told AFP.

Interpol said in a statement that Noble would "seek Pakistans agreement to work through Interpol to help identify terrorists worldwide, including those behind the deadly 26-29 November terrorist bombings in Mumbai."

Noble, who met with the head of Pakistan's Federal Investigative Agency on Monday, said that only the sharing of critical police information on terrorism" could help prevent attacks like those in Mumbai and Islamabad.

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## BATMAN

Interpol should not get involved among inter-state controversies.
Infect both, Rehman Malik and Zardari should be handed over to interpol for embezzling Pakistan forex reserves.

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## IceCold

Updated at: 1340 PST, Tuesday, December 23, 2008
ISLAMABAD: Interpol has expressed satisfaction over measures taken by Pakistan in connection with Mumbai attacks.

The Interpol team during a meeting with adviser on Interior Affairs Rehman Malik said *India did not provide any concrete evidence about the involvement in Mumbai attacks*. 

Rehman Malik said steps were taken against Jamaat-ud-Dawa in accordance with United Nations rules. Pakistan is investigating, *but so far India has not provided any concrete proofs*.

Interior Secretary Kamal Shah and other officials of interior ministry were also present during the meeting.

Interpol expresses satisfaction over Pak measures - GEO.tv

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## IceCold

So much for providing evidence.


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## slugger

BATMAN said:


> Interpol should not get involved among inter-state controversies.


I completely agree with you

By bringing a third party investigative agency, the respective government would only be undermining the credibility of its own country's investigative agency - it will only show that the country's government does not trust the ability of its own agency

No self-respecting government would agree to let Interpol help in its domestic investigation.


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## Imran Khan

Pakistan cooperating with the world: Interpol 

Updated : Tuesday December 23 , 2008 1:52:30 PM




ISLAMABAD: Interpol chief Ronald Noble has said that Pakistan is one of the victims of terrorism which has badly hit by the menace.

Addressing a press conference alongside with Advisor for Interior Rehman Malik here, he termed terrorism the major problem faced by the world.

He said Pakistan is cooperating with the world community over the issue, the world should also extend its cooperation to the country

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## slugger

^^
But Pakistan did not say Interpol will be conducting *joint investigation in Pakistan*....firm stand by Pakistan


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## Hayreddin

Indians are only playing tactics,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
but may be situation is not so simple as we thinking,,,,,,


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## skybolt




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## BATMAN

They look like close relatives.
I don't think indians should use interpol any more. They should rather concentrate on US.

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## Hayreddin

if there will be surgical strikes from india ,,,,,,,,
WHAT WILL BE THE PAKISTAN'S COUNTER ACTION,?
WHAT WILL BE THE OPTIONS FOR PAKISTAN?????


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## jarnee

Surgical strikes will be in Pakistan's Favour. India will avenge Benazir's murderers. Bec. of political reasons Zardari and Giliani cannot directly engage in getting rid of them. PAK armed forces/Nukes are out of his controls. This is the the conspiracy, Let Zahid Hameed know. He is fantasizing weird things. 
India and Zardari are together in this. 2x1 against LET / Jammad U'dawa.


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## Awesome

ahmed said:


> if there will be surgical strikes from india ,,,,,,,,
> WHAT WILL BE THE PAKISTAN'S COUNTER ACTION,?
> WHAT WILL BE THE OPTIONS FOR PAKISTAN?????


Please read the hitlist thread for that.


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## ajpirzada

*India didn&#8217;t provide any suspects list relating to Mumbai attacks* 
Updated at: 1445 PST, Tuesday, December 23, 2008
ISLAMABAD: *The visiting Interpol Chief, Ronald Noble has said that India hasn&#8217;t provided any list of suspected terrorists relating to the Mumbai attacks.*

Following a meeting with the Interior Advisor, Rehman Malik, Ronald Noble told the media that Pakistan was itself a terrorist inflicted country and Benazir Bhutto became a victim of it. &#8220;We are satisfied over the cooperation extended by Pakistan relating to Mumbai attacks, as Pakistan investigation agencies are cooperative with Interpol and we are thankful to the interior advisor for his assistance&#8221;, he said. He further said that none other than Pakistan till today cooperated more with the Interpol and added that Pakistan was the most proactive associate of Interpol. He said the Interpol has also the same information, which you possess. Ronald Noble said that Pakistan was cooperating with the Interpol and the world community should also cooperate with Pakistan. 

Earlier, Interior Advisor, Rehman Malik said that Pakistan and India both were the victims of terrorism. He also apprised of Pakistan&#8217;s difficulties relating to terrorism in his meeting with Ronald Noble, Rehman Malik said that Interpol team was on routine visit to Pakistan and nothing was discussed relating to the illegal immigrants with them. He said that there are set procedures for the handing over of the wanted person to any country and, &#8220;We are prepared to extend all possible cooperation to India relating to the Mumbai attacks, we will bring terrorists to justice,&#8221; he vowed.

India didnt provide any suspects list relating to Mumbai attacks - GEO.tv

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## Kharian_Beast

Indians are caught in their own lie, this is why the only option left for them is military action. Our retards in government must plan for war.

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## AliFarooq

hussaindxb said:


> why cant our goverment get better aircrafts than filling their pockets.. we have always given a better fight with our daring paf pilots
> 
> PAF - ZINDABAD
> ZARDARI - GO TO HELL



F-16s are capable of fighting SU30's


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## Hayreddin

jarnee said:


> Surgical strikes will be in Pakistan's Favour. India will avenge Benazir's murderers. Bec. of political reasons Zardari and Giliani cannot directly engage in getting rid of them. PAK armed forces/Nukes are out of his controls. This is the the conspiracy, Let Zahid Hameed know. He is fantasizing weird things.
> India and Zardari are together in this. 2x1 against LET / Jammad U'dawa.



by reading this ,i can suggest two things about you ,weather your level of knowledge is too low or you are the person with immature mind .......

1: First thing if you want to give favor to PAKISTAN by surgical strikes ,YOU must use that favor to your own country ,you know more than 200 extremist organizations running in your country , i think PAF must help you to eliminate all these terrorists by surgical strikes ,what you say about this ??????
2: Zardari and Gillani are our political leaders and they are in favor of PAKISTAN ,i think you must be thankfull to them because of their peaceful nature your *** is still unharmed otherwise our ARM FORCES know well how to kick INDIANS ***,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## Hayreddin

Asim Aquil said:


> Please read the hitlist thread for that.



THANKS for your guidance SIR,,,,,,,


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## Hayreddin

jarnee said:


> Surgical strikes will be in Pakistan's Favour. India will avenge Benazir's murderers. Bec. of political reasons Zardari and Giliani cannot directly engage in getting rid of them. PAK armed forces/Nukes are out of his controls. This is the the conspiracy, Let Zahid Hameed know. He is fantasizing weird things.
> India and Zardari are together in this. 2x1 against LET / Jammad U'dawa.





by reading this ,i can suggest two things about you ,weather your level of knowledge is too low or you are the person with immature mind .......

1: First thing if you want to give favor to PAKISTAN by surgical strikes ,YOU must use that favor to your own country ,you know more than 200 extremist organizations running in your country , i think PAF must help you to eliminate all these terrorists by surgical strikes ,what you say about this ??????
2: Zardari and Gillani are our political leaders and they are in favor of PAKISTAN ,i think you must be thankfull to them because of their peaceful nature youR ASStill unharmed otherwise our ARM FORCES know well how to kick INDIANS ***,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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## jarnee

ahmed said:


> by reading this ,i can suggest two things about you ,weather your level of knowledge is too low or you are the person with immature mind .......
> 
> 1: First thing if you want to give favor to PAKISTAN by surgical strikes ,YOU must use that favor to your own country ,you know more than 200 extremist organizations running in your country , i think PAF must help you to eliminate all these terrorists by surgical strikes ,what you say about this ??????
> 2: Zardari and Gillani are our political leaders and they are in favor of PAKISTAN ,i think you must be thankfull to them because of their peaceful nature your *** is still unharmed otherwise our ARM FORCES know well how to kick INDIANS ***,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,



I agree with You Ahmed Bhai, please help us identify the Camps in India and we will work together with PAF, meanwhile lets together strike in Kashmir and other places in Pak territory.


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## Jihad

Saw this coming allready, the whole buildup of this case was totally wrong from the Indian POV.


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## Jihad

jarnee said:


> I agree with You Ahmed Bhai, please help us identify the Camps in India and we will work together with PAF, meanwhile lets together strike in Kashmir and other places in Pak territory.


Together inside Pakistani territory? Forget it.
Respect the sovereignty of your neighbour.
You can't just walk in and do as you wish by taking out "terrorcamps".
I've read this so much lately, people seem to forget that Pakistan is a nation with borders, it does not violate Indias border, so Pakistan expects India to do the same.


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## Kharian_Beast

jarnee said:


> I agree with You Ahmed Bhai, please help us identify the Camps in India and we will work together with PAF, meanwhile lets together strike in Kashmir and other places in Pak territory.


Here you go smartass

View attachment a159625c8a9dd4f66d328226ff13d8fa.bmp_.jpg


Maybe we should consider this fact next time India talks about becoming a regional police force.


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## ajpirzada

guys seriously tellin u our gov have handled this situation quite well. 
leaders have been givin chilled out statement to calm things down whereas our military official have been actin tough just to not let india take any misadvantage. and thats the best way to deal with the situation


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## dabloo

Kharian_Beast said:


> Here you go smartass
> 
> View attachment a159625c8a9dd4f66d328226ff13d8fa.bmp_.jpg
> 
> 
> Maybe we should consider this fact next time India talks about becoming a regional police force.



Dear Kharian,
Do you know difference between Terrorist & Naxali, terrorist has no targets, they have to kill any one who come to there way, while naxali is movement (though they may not be right) to bring communist government in India by the mean of weapons. But they also don't kill general people, they always attack police and government officials only.

Further on all the postings, Why every pakistani friend are behind India a**, India also have c***, wht about that.

Dabloo


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## Kharian_Beast

dabloo said:


> Dear Kharian,
> Do you know difference between Terrorist & Naxali, terrorist has no targets, they have to kill any one who come to there way, while naxali is movement (though they may not be right) to bring communist government in India by the mean of weapons. But they also don't kill general people, they always attack police and government officials only.
> 
> Further on all the postings, Why every pakistani friend are behind India a**, India also have c***, wht about that.
> 
> Dabloo



Dear dabloo, 

You know I'm right and you know very well you are wrong. There is no difference between terrorists and naxals, as they are fighting not just to seperate themselves from India, but to completely consume India with their ideology. Kashmiri seperatists on the other hand want their sovereignty recognized, and are not aiming at overthrowing the government in Delhi. 

K_B

PS - Yes naxals target civilians as well, please educate yourself.


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## Al-zakir

*India didn&#8217;t provide any suspects list relating to Mumbai attacks *
Updated at: 1445 PST, Tuesday, December 23, 2008
ISLAMABAD: The visiting Interpol Chief, Ronald Noble has said that India hasn&#8217;t provided any list of suspected terrorists relating to the Mumbai attacks.

Following a meeting with the Interior Advisor, Rehman Malik, Ronald Noble told the media that Pakistan was itself a terrorist inflicted country and Benazir Bhutto became a victim of it. &#8220;We are satisfied over the cooperation extended by Pakistan relating to Mumbai attacks, as Pakistan investigation agencies are cooperative with Interpol and we are thankful to the interior advisor for his assistance&#8221;, he said. He further said that none other than Pakistan till today cooperated more with the Interpol and added that Pakistan was the most proactive associate of Interpol. He said the Interpol has also the same information, which you possess. Ronald Noble said that Pakistan was cooperating with the Interpol and the world community should also cooperate with Pakistan. 

Earlier, Interior Advisor, Rehman Malik said that Pakistan and India both were the victims of terrorism. He also apprised of Pakistan&#8217;s difficulties relating to terrorism in his meeting with Ronald Noble, Rehman Malik said that Interpol team was on routine visit to Pakistan and nothing was discussed relating to the illegal immigrants with them. He said that there are set procedures for the handing over of the wanted person to any country and, &#8220;We are prepared to extend all possible cooperation to India relating to the Mumbai attacks, we will bring terrorists to justice,&#8221; he vowed.


India didnt provide any suspects list relating to Mumbai attacks - GEO.tv


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## slugger

Al-zakir said:


> *India didn&#8217;t provide any suspects list relating to Mumbai attacks *
> Updated at: 1445 PST, Tuesday, December 23, 2008
> ISLAMABAD: The visiting Interpol Chief, Ronald Noble has said that India hasn&#8217;t provided any list of suspected terrorists relating to the Mumbai attacks.





> By bringing in a *third party investigative agency*, the respective government would only be *undermining the credibility of its own country's investigative agency* - it will only show that the country's government does not trust the ability of its own agency
> 
> No self-respecting government would agree to let Interpol help in its domestic investigation.



*Source*.........


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## Pk_Thunder

*Manmohan says nobody wants war*
Updated at: 1711 PST, Tuesday, December 23, 2008
NEW DELHI: India's prime minister says ``nobody wants war,'' seeking to lower tensions with neighboring Pakistan over the Mumbai attacks.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Tuesday renewed the call for Pakistan to crack down on Islamic militant groups blamed for the attack on India's financial capital of Mumbai last month.

But Singh says ``the issue is not war. The issue is terror and territory in Pakistan being used to promote and abet terrorism.''


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## Jihad

Ofcourse nobody wants war, what is it exactly now the Indians want?
I think they're all confused of what they really want.
They simply cannot prove Pakistans role in this, and that's what frustrating them I think, also the fact that a military option would be deadly for both nations means they don't have much to bring in.
They should've prevented it, they had all the time, the warnings, and resources to do so.
They're trying to hide their shortcomings in these bombings by totally blaming Pakistan.


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## dabloo

Kharian_Beast said:


> Dear dabloo,
> 
> Don't be a smartass, you know I'm right and you know very well you are wrong.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> K_B



Dear Beast,

Once again a**, if you are to decide who is right and who is wrong, they What are you doing on this forum, Forum is for everyone to put their view, you can have your own website any there you can say 100 times you are right and I am wrong, nobody will bother you.

Thanks 
Dabloo


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## dabong1

*The global police agency Interpol says India has not shared any information with it about last month's deadly attacks in Mumbai (Bombay).*

Interpol secretary general Ronald Noble, who is in Islamabad, said its only knowledge of what happened had come from the media. 

Pakistan also says it has had no firm information from Delhi. 

India says Pakistani militants carried out the attacks, which left more than 170 people dead. 
The information Interpol has about what happened in Mumbai is the same information that you have 


Only one of the 10 gunmen, Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab, survived and he is in Indian custody. 

On Monday India handed a letter to Pakistan it says was written by Mr Qasab, confirming he is Pakistani and asking for Islamabad's help. 

The attacks have severely strained relations between the two countries. 

Police in Indian-administered Kashmir said on Tuesday they had arrested three militants from Pakistan who were planning to launch suicide bomb attacks in the city of Jammu. 

According to the police, one of those detained was a Pakistani army soldier and all were members of the Jaish-e-Mohammed militant group, which is violently opposed to India's presence in Kashmir. 

There was no immediate response from the Pakistani army to the Indian allegation. 

Mr Noble has been in Islamabad for talks with Rehman Malik, the adviser to the prime minister on interior affairs. 

At the weekend he had met India's Minister of Home Affairs Palaniappan Chidambaram in Delhi. 

Ronald Noble is heading an Interpol team to India and Pakistan 

Mr Noble said in the Pakistani capital: "To date, India's government has not authorised India's police agencies to enter any data relating to the recent terrorist attacks in Mumbai into Interpol's databases. 

*"The information Interpol has about what happened in Mumbai is the same information that you have - it's information that was read in journals, that was read on the internet or that was seen on TV." *

Mr Noble has said Interpol is willing to pass on DNA profiles, photos and fingerprints of the suspects worldwide. 

He said it was Delhi's "sovereign choice" on whether to pass on evidence, but was confident more would be forthcoming. 

"We are hopeful that it will happen very quickly. We've deployed a team there for that reason." 

Mr Malik reiterated Pakistan's line that it is willing to take part in an investigation but has had no data from India. 

"We want to bring the culprits to justice... We are prepared to co-operate with India but they have to bring us evidence." 

India says militants of the Lashkar-e-Taiba group carried out the attack, citing evidence provided by Mr Qasab. 

Mumbai police have listed in full the names and apparent aliases of the men it said carried out the attack, along with photographs, and says all were from Pakistan. 

India's foreign ministry said Mr Qasab's letter to the Pakistan High Commission "stated that he and the other terrorists killed in the attack were from Pakistan and [he] has sought a meeting with the Pakistan High Commission". 

Islamabad says it is examining the letter but has made no official response. 

'Regrettable' 

Meanwhile, the chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm Mike Mullen, has urged Pakistan to work with India to combat extremism, a US embassy statement has said. 


Pakistan has yet to respond to Mr Qasab's letter 

Adm Mullen has been in Islamabad to meet the Pakistani army chief and head of the intelligence service. 

The embassy said Adm Mullen urged Pakistan to "use this tragic event as an opportunity to forge more productive ties with India and to seek ways in which both nations can combat the common threat of extremism together". 

Separately, Mr Chidambaram said comments by a minister that suggested there was another agenda to the killing of senior policemen in the Mumbai attacks were "wrong and deeply regrettable". 

Minority Affairs Minister AR Antulay had questioned who sent anti-terrorism chief Hemant Karkare - who had been investigating suspected Hindu radical attacks - and others to their deaths at the scene of the attacks. 

Mr Antulay said Mr Chidambaram had "clarified all doubts" and "the matter is settled". 

BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Interpol 'not given Mumbai data'

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## Kharian_Beast

dabloo said:


> Dear Beast,
> 
> Once again a**, if you are to decide who is right and who is wrong, they What are you doing on this forum, Forum is for everyone to put their view, you can have your own website any there you can say 100 times you are right and I am wrong, nobody will bother you.
> 
> Thanks
> Dabloo



Dear Babloo, 

I think it was you who started lecturing me about the "difference between terrorists and naxals"...I have edited my previous post to clarify better where I check mated you. Chill man, you can out maneuver me in another thread, this debate is done and done. 

Warm Regards, 
K_B


----------



## slugger

BATMAN said:


> Interpol should not get involved among inter-state controversies.





slugger said:


> I completely agree with you
> 
> By bringing a *third party investigative agency*, the respective government would only be *undermining the credibility of its own country's investigative agency* - it will only show that the country's government does not trust the ability of its own agency
> 
> No self-respecting government would agree to let Interpol help in its domestic investigation.



Reporting for merger with this thread
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/18288-interpol-chief-meets-rehman-malik.html


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## Jihad

Or.......they just don't have the "data" to hand over to Interpol?

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## Imran Khan

now interpol bor india were indians bring some evedence they now confuse.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Threads merged


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## Pk_Thunder

PK ll JCo0L said:


> Ofcourse nobody wants war, what is it exactly now the Indians want?
> I think they're all confused of what they really want.
> They simply cannot prove Pakistans role in this, and that's what frustrating them I think, also the fact that a military option would be deadly for both nations means they don't have much to bring in.
> They should've prevented it, they had all the time, the warnings, and resources to do so.
> They're trying to hide their shortcomings in these bombings by totally blaming Pakistan.



You see there is a difference between the statements of the PM and FM of India..Manmohan doesn't speak abt the war rather peace and Parnab is giving the war impression so what is their govt's policy?its not clear


----------



## dabloo

Kharian_Beast said:


> Dear Babloo,
> 
> I think it was you who started lecturing me about the "difference between terrorists and naxals"...I have edited my previous post to clarify better where I check mated you. Chill man, you can out maneuver me in another thread, this debate is done and done.
> 
> Warm Regards,
> K_B



Dear K_B,

Atleast, this time you restrained using a**, it was a nice feeling.

Yeh i may agree with you, but still would not like to call them terrorist, though they are very dangerous for any government, but they have chosen their targets and mostly they stick to them, though some times general people are also killed in crossfiring.

dabloo


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## Solomon2

I disagree with Slugger's view about "undermining the credibility of its own country's investigative agency". Very suspicious, that Interpol hasn't been given the data. I'm having doubts now.


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## Jihad

Solomon2 said:


> I disagree with Slugger's view about "undermining the credibility of its own country's investigative agency". Very suspicious, that Interpol hasn't been given the data. I'm having doubts now.


Trust me, you aren't the only one with doubts about this whole case.


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## Cheetah786

India has given no information about last month's attacks in Mumbai to Interpol and information passed to media by Indian investigators should be shared if it is accurate, the police agency's chief said today. 
Pakistan, under pressure over Indian accusations that the 10 gunmen who attacked Mumbai came from Pakistan, has complained that India has yet to provide it with any evidence to push its investigation forward. 


Interpol Secretary General Ronald K. Noble told a news conference in Islamabad until Indian authorities shared information, police around the world would be unable to make any determination about the identity of the attackers. 


"To date, India's government has not authorised India's police agencies to enter any data relating to the recent terrorist attacks in Mumbai in Interpol's databases," Noble said. 

"The information Interpol has about what happened in Mumbai is the same information that you have. It's information that we've read in journals, that we've read on the Internet or that we've seen on TV," he said. 

Tension between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan has spiked since the assault on India's financial heart, which killed 179 people. 

(India and the United States) have blamed the banned Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba for the attacks. 

Pakistan has cracked down on militants and detained scores of people including several top leaders, but it has repeatedly said it needs evidence from India to investigate. 

Like Noble, Pakistan says the only information it has received on the Mumbai attacks has come through media reports. 

Indian officials have said they have passed on information. 


Gunmen 
Noble said it was a country's right to decide when it should share information but it was unacceptable for authorities to pass accurate information to media without sharing it with Interpol. 

"We can't enter newspaper information in our police databases, we can only enter information that we receive from police authorities," he said. 

"Right now, police around the world who are searching names in police databases that you might be familiar with from reading the newspapers ... will get negative responses because that information is not in Interpol's database," he said. 

The Indian foreign ministry on Monday handed a letter written by the lone surviving gunman from the Mumbai attacks, Ajmal Amir Kasab, to Pakistan's acting high commissioner in New Delhi. 

Kasab said he and the nine gunmen killed in the siege were from Pakistan, the ministry said. Pakistan confirmed its mission had received a letter and it was being examined. 

Pakistani Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik said in the letter that "reportedly" came from Kasab, he had asked for legal assistence. 

Authorities had searched for Kasab on a database that in theory contains the names of all Pakistanis but they had found nothing, Malik told the news conference. 

Malik also said an al Qaeda-linked militant group was behind the September suicide truck-bomb attack on the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad in which 55 people were killed. 

"Lashkar-e-Jhangvi is involved in it. We have identified all people and its links are back in South Waziristan," he said, referring to a known al Qaeda and Taliban stronghold in a lawless enclave on the Afghan border. 


Interpol: "India should share Mumbai evidence" - Asia, World - The Independent

Looks Like its time for india to put up or shut up


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## Prodigy17

Good thread. I think this is entirely true. The operation was completely bungled up as was obvious from the coverage and follow up reports. This also takes care of the myth that the operation took long because there were hostages. Infact, the terrorists were not interested in that instead they were sitting merely waiting for some one to come and fight with them so that they could kill and get killed but no one had the courage to go close to them for close to 60 hours. Real eye opener.............. enough for singing praise of the "bravery of police and NSG". Incompetence and timidity ruled the fateful days....


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## T-Rex

dabloo said:


> Dear Kharian,
> Do you know difference between Terrorist & Naxali, terrorist has no targets, they have to kill any one who come to there way, while naxali is movement (though they may not be right) to bring communist government in India by the mean of weapons. But they also don't kill general people, they always attack police and government officials only.
> 
> Further on all the postings, Why every pakistani friend are behind India a**, India also have c***, wht about that.
> 
> Dabloo



Any organization or individual that uses terror tactics in order to achieve its goals is a terrorist. However, the hypopcrites have a different definition, according to them only Muslims qualify as terrorists, others may use same mehods but they cannot be called terrorists.


----------



## dabloo

T-Rex said:


> Any organization or individual that uses terror tactics in order to achieve its goals is a terrorist. However, the hypopcrites have a different definition, according to them only Muslims qualify as terrorists, others may use same mehods but they cannot be called terrorists.



So do you agree, that there are terrorist in Jammu & Kashmir, what about your own friends in bangladesh killing and raping hindu women and girls be called. can you define it.

Dont pretend to be Bangladeshi, if you are Pakistani.


Dabloo


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

The majority of the ruckus India has raised so far has revolved around demands completely unrelated to the Mumbai attacks. The push in the UN to ban the JuD as a front for the LeT was perhaps the closest they came to action specifically against the Mumbai perpetrators.

Other than that their list of 3 included no one from the LeT. Their next 'list of 40' they demanded action upon was apparently all the individuals they have alleged are in Pakistan over the last few decades or something. The 'evidence' they wanted Pakistan to act upon was, again, all the alleged evidence provided over the last few decades or so.

I am not suggesting that the prior demands be dismissed out of hand, but the Indians should have focused on the task at hand, which was going after the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks.

Instead they decided to use the occasion to try and get Pakistan to act against every single group operating in Kashmir, and embarked upon a campaign of smear and belligerence that has polarized opinion in the two countries, and likely tied the hands of the politicians.

I won't dismiss out of hand any evidence India may have, when they complete their investigation, I just think they have poisoned the atmosphere and made it harder for either government to move from their respective positions.

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## zavis2003

FOR INDIA


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## XYON

I am just curious, I have heard a lot of political statements, intelligence intercept reports and of course the so called LETTER (not admissible under any court due to doubtful credibility and likely confession under duress) that the 10th attacker has signed! But what is the REAL evidence that India can have that would stand-up in any court of law (local or international) other than hearsay, media hype and/or politically motivated story telling?

Maybe some law experts (from both sides) could enlighten us to this effect in order to separate the BULL$HIT from actual FACTS!


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Threads merged again.


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## linkinpark

Interpol has no teeth. It is a waste of time to give evidence to them. They were given evidence on Dawood Ibrahim, they have sounded a Interpol alert, what happened?. Squat happened.


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## zavis2003

debloo behave in this open forum regaring PAKISTAN and respects pakistani people
u people only screems from that side of border . u people cant do any thing saway making hostile environment
Grow up by taking cerelac and NIDO milk if u can


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## dabong1

slugger said:


> Originally Posted by BATMAN
> Interpol should not get involved among inter-state controversies.
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by slugger
> I completely agree with you
> 
> By bringing a third party investigative agency, the respective government would only be undermining the credibility of its own country's investigative agency - it will only show that the country's government does not trust the ability of its own agency
> 
> No self-respecting government would agree to let Interpol help in its domestic investigation
> [/url]



*No self-respecting government would agree to let Interpol help in its domestic investigation *

How come you indians want the FBI involved?

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## linkinpark

dabong1 said:


> *No self-respecting government would agree to let Interpol help in its domestic investigation *
> 
> How come you indians want the FBI involved?



That is because 5 american citizens were killed in the attacks.


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## dabong1

linkinpark said:


> That is because 5 american citizens were killed in the attacks.




And no citzens from interpol countries where killed?


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## Moscow

linkinpark said:


> Interpol has no teeth. It is a waste of time to give evidence to them. They were given evidence on Dawood Ibrahim, they have sounded a Interpol alert, what happened?. Squat happened.



why does india continue to live in the past .times have changed,if they have a solid evidence of the mumbai attackers why dont they share it<not with the media but surely with the interpol they can >
over the last week all the major powers of the world have being putting diplomatic pressure on pakistan to act.why dosnt india realize that this arm twisting cannot go on for ever, if the western powers seems to be getting tired of this whole thing. and at this junction dosnt this action of india makes it lose its credibility in the world forum.

if u consider the UN, the INTERPOL, and other world stages to be toothless then can u please tell me which kind of world forum does india wish to share the investigations,
isnt india not acting like the bush administration before they attacked iraq<remember they never provided the solid evidence that the world demanded> US being a superpower got away with it but india cannot,if they want the world force to act diplomatically they must come out with something concreate.

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## IceCold

THUNDER777 said:


> *Manmohan says nobody wants war*
> Updated at: 1711 PST, Tuesday, December 23, 2008
> NEW DELHI: India's prime minister says ``nobody wants war,'' seeking to lower tensions with neighboring Pakistan over the Mumbai attacks.
> 
> Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Tuesday renewed the call for Pakistan to crack down on Islamic militant groups blamed for the attack on India's financial capital of Mumbai last month.
> 
> But Singh says ``the issue is not war. The issue is terror and territory in Pakistan being used to promote and abet terrorism.''



I think DR needs to tell this to Sonia Gandhi and all the other warmongers who insist on attacking Pakistan without knowing the repercussions of it.


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## Indicom

AliFarooq said:


> F-16s are capable of fighting SU30's



I was born when cow raped my mom


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## Jihad

C'mon guys..whats with all these childish comments?


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## Indicom

PK ll JCo0L said:


> C'mon guys..whats with all these childish comments?



My Bru,rubbish has to be confronted with more rubbish.


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## Pk_Thunder

IceCold said:


> I think DR needs to tell this to Sonia Gandhi and all the other warmongers who insist on attacking Pakistan without knowing the repercussions of it.



Dude i m sure they are aware of the repercussions and the kind of response they will be getting back from Pakistan if attacked.they are just doing (chairr khani)


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## Jihad

Ok so we're convinced that no attacks will take place, all this media hype wasn't really worth the effort.
Now let's go back to the table and solve this issue with India.


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## TOPGUN

Haha once again delting my post np iam on to u who it is anyhow was i wanted to say as i always state we want peace we want to live in peace if u to harm of way of life then we shall defend our selves and give u a mind blowing response lets stop the blood shed and work towards peace !!


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

dabong1 said:


> And no citzens from interpol countries where killed?



Any forum that at any point has issued a statement or resolutions supportive of Pakistan or/and against India is a 'useless forum' for the Indians.

The UNSC resolutions are 'useless and outdated' because the UN is a 'useless organization'.

Interpol is now suddenly a 'useless organization' as well, because of this statement validating what Pakistan has said all along (no evidence has been shared), though it was quoted often when trying to establish Dawood Ibrahim's location.

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## Skywalker

Indicom said:


> I am gay, and get regular hand job with modi



No matter how bigger your balls...always remember it would always remain under the dcik(F 16).

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## Prodigy17

*From a neutral source keeping in mind the popular demand. Interesting read.....*

Foreign Policy Journal

India: Mumbai Terrorist Attacks
Elements of an Inside Job in Mumbai Attacks
December 19, 2008
by Jeremy R. Hammond
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/...ai-attacks.htm

Indian police last week arrested Hassan Ali Khan, who was wanted for investigations into money laundering and other illicit activities, and who is also said to have ties to Dawood Ibrahim, the underworld kingpin who evidence indicates was the mastermind behind the terrorist attacks in Mumbai last month.

Ibrahim is also alleged to have close ties with both Pakistans Inter-Service Intelligence (ISI) agency and the CIA.

Another character linked to the CIA whose name is now beginning to figure into the web of connections between the Mumbai attacks, criminal organizations, and intelligence agencies is Saudi arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi, of Iran-Contra infamy. Khashoggi has been implicated in arms deals with drug traffickers and terrorist groups, including within India.

Dawood Ibrahim is a known major drug trafficker whom India claims is being protected by Pakistan. As Foreign Policy Journal previously reported, there are also some indications that the CIA has a similar interest in preventing Ibrahim from being handed over to India. Ibrahim is wanted by India for the recent Mumbai attacks as well as for bombings that occurred there in 1993.

Ibrahim is a native of India who rose through the ranks of the criminal underworld in Bombay (now Mumbai). According to media reports in India, he got his start as an undercover informant for the police at a young age and thus has an intimate knowledge of Indian law enforcement and intelligence, and is alleged to have fostered close ties with individuals within the political system.

Another known associate of Ibrahims in Mumbai, Mohammed Ali, is suspected of assisting the terrorists, who were met by an individual in Uran before continuing on to Mumbai, where inflatable rubber dinghies had been arranged to take them ashore by the same individual. Numerous earlier press accounts indicated that the dinghies, along with other logistical assistance, were provided by an associate of Ibrahims.

The Times of India, for instance, reported on November 28 that according to police sources the Mumbai attack was enabled by the Dawood Ibrahim gang, and that It would not have been possible to carry out a terror operation on this scale without a collaborative local network and this was provided by the D Gang. As the terrorists had entered via the sea, the needle of suspicion is clearly pointing at Mohammed Ali, the new poinstman of Dawood.

Yet Indian news reports indicate that officials have been slow to act against Hassan Ali Khan, and Mohammed Ali continues smuggling operations out of Mumbai for Ibrahims crime syndicate, D-Company, completely unmolested by Indian investigators and law enforcement.

As the November 28 Times of India article observed, Ali is known to indulge in smuggling of diesel, petroleum, naptha, drugs and arms with impunity and it appears that the terrorists had used his networks to enter the city by the sea route. Despite having a detailed dossier on him, the authorities have not taken any action against him. What is more worrying is that Ali is believed to have also penetrated naval intelligence.

A further report from the Times of India on December 4 noted that Dawood Ibrahim is sitting pretty in Karachi under the protection of Pakistan and his hawala channel between Mumbai and Karachi remains busy. But central agencies question why the Maharashtra government has not taken any action against the D-company here.

Whats the point of asking Islamabad to hand over Dawood when were not doing anything to destroy his empire in Mumbai and other places in India? a senior official asked.

The article observed that Mohammed Ali continues to operate with impunity.

Again, on December 11, Times of India reported that Mumbai police has still not called Ali for questioning, adding that Ali is also known to have the backing of two powerful politicians of south Mumbai and that could be the reason why he is still untouched.

In addition to links to Ibrahim, both men are also alleged, like Ibrahim himself, to have ties to political officials in India, and there are numerous other indications emerging that the attacks were assisted by elements within India being protected by the political establishment.

Hassan Ali Khan

Indias Daily News & Analysis reported last week that it appears Hassan Ali Khan was part of a multi-crore [Indian numerical unit equivalent to ten-millions] hawala syndicate racket and may have joined hands with the organized crime operated by underworld don Dawood Ibrahim. He is also suspected to have funded terror organizations.

Indias Enforcement Directorate (ED) had also told the Bombay High Court that there were indications that Ali was part of a strong international crime syndicate with money flowing in from proceeds of heinous crimes like terrorism, arms trade, gun running, corruption and organized forgery.

A series of news reports from March 2007 in the Times of India revealed that Khan was being investigated for money laundering and other illicit activities. A laptop recovered from his home showed that he had accounts at a Swiss bank. Khan had reportedly tried to take advantage of tax waivers granted on investments originating outside India in countries with double taxation avoidance agreements with India. The funds were also be used to invest in the stock market.

Khan would send funds abroad through illegal channels and re-route them into India through shell companies in countries with such a tax arrangement with India. According to the Times of India, Khan has no known sources of income in India but owns stud farms and often travels abroad. His wealth is estimated to be in the billions, and he owns property in Mumbai and Pune.

Investigators from the Enforcement Directorate (ED) had crucial input from the Intelligence Bureau, which was concerned about this unaccounted money having implications for national security.

One of the countries used to route money back into India was Mauritius, an island chain off the east coast of Africa near Madagascar and a former British colony. The UK still maintains a military presence there. It expelled the inhabitants of the island of Diego Garcia in order to turn it into a military base, which has also been used by the US for its own military operations.

According to reports, prior to the terrorist attacks in Mumbai, a team had been sent ahead and checked into the Taj Mahal hotel, one of the key targets of the attacks, and established a control room where they had food, weapons, and other supplies waiting in anticipation of the siege of the hotel by police and special forces. An identification card from Mauritius was used to check into the room.

Hassan Ali Khan has an interest in horse-racing and trades in thoroughbreds. The Times of India reported that he had attracted attention on the Pune racing turf where he surfaced about five years ago as a small-time punter who suddenly became one of the biggest players. His contacts, by default, were with some of the top industrialists who have an interest in horse-trading.

Last February, the Hindustan Times reported that the Swiss bank involved in the money transfers, USB (United Bank of Switzerland) AG, was reluctant to assist Indian investigators, and the investigation had been stalled as a result. The ED had advised the Indian government not to approve a plan by UBS AG to buy Standard Chartered Bank, an Indian mutual fund business, because of its lack of cooperation in tracking Khans money transfers. According to the ED, Khan had $8 billion in the banks accounts.

Adnan Khashoggi

The Hindustan Times also revealed that there was evidence that Saudi arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi of Iran-Contra infamy had transferred $300 million to Khan from a Chase Manhattan bank account in New York. It added that Khashoggis arms supplies to Tamil terrorists, the LTTE, were revealed during an investigation into the 1991 assassination of Rajiv Gandhi.

Khashoggi acted as a middle-man during the Iran-Contra affair, brokering an arrangement for Israel to sell US arms from its own stockpiles to Iran. The CIA then channeled money from the sales to the Contras in support of their terrorist war against the democratically-elected government of Nicaragua. The World Court later condemned the United States for the unlawful use of force  a euphemism for international terrorism or the even greater crime of a war of aggression.

Investigative journalist Wayne Madsen recently reported that, according to Asian intelligence sources, Khashoggi was also involved with the CIA in an effort to support Bosnian Muslims that brought [Dawood] Ibrahim and [Osama] Bin Laden into the same big CIA tent, along with Saudi arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi, a key Iran-contra figure in George H. W. Bushs global arms smuggling venture while he served as Vice President under Ronald Reagan. There have been reports that Ibrahim considers Khashoggi to be a hero figure.

In 1991, a Defense Intelligence Agency report listed Khashoggi as An international arms trafficker who allegedly has sold arms to the Colombian drug traffickers, especially to the Medellin Cartel.

The Global Drug Trade

The DIA report also listed Washingtons man in Columbia, Alvaro Uribe Velez, as A Colombian politician and senator dedicated to collaboration with the Medillin Cartel at high government levels. Uribe was linked to a business involved in narcotics activities in the US. Uribe has worked for the Medillin Cartel and is a close personal friend of Pablo Escobar Gaviria.

Uribe is now the President of Colombia, which receives enormous amounts of US financing and military support, surpassed perhaps only by US support for Israel, Egypt, and now Iraq.

Manuel Noriega was another infamous narcotics trafficker and CIA asset, as well as a graduate of the School of Americas (SOA), which has since changed its name to the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (WHINSEC). The SOA was responsible for training numerous Latin American dictators and military commanders who were responsible for torturing, murdering, or otherwise disappearing countless political opponents and other individuals.

Colombia is also another case where the government has been caught red-handed staging false-flag terrorist attacks. In the late 1970s, a series of bombings, kidnappings, and assassinations against leftist targets was carried out by a terrorist group known as the American Anti-Communist Alliance (AAA or Triple-A). Documents available online at the George Washington University National Security Archives confirm that Triple-A was secretly created and staffed by members of Colombian military intelligence in a plan authorized by then-army commander Gen. Jorge Robledo Pulido.

John Perkins, author of Confessions of an Economic Hitman, wrote in his follow-up book The Secret History of the American Empire that a second lieutenant in the US army sent to Colombia to establish a United States-commanded Southern Unified Army told him, Everything we do in Colombia just makes it more attractive for the drug business. Why do you think the situation keeps getting worse there? Because we want it to, were behind the drug trafficking. The CIA isjust like it was in Asias Golden Triangle.

One might add the Golden Crescent to that list. As Foreign Policy Journal previously reported, Dawood Ibrahim is known to be a major drug trafficker responsible for shipping narcotics into the United Kingdom and Western Europe. While most Afghan opium is smuggled to Europe over land through Iran and Turkey, much of the amount that goes to Pakistan seems to be taken either by plane or by ship directly to the Europe, principally the UK.

While Pakistan claims Ibrahim is not even in the country, India insists he has been living in Karachi under the protection of Pakistans Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency.

The ISI worked closely with the CIA during the Soviet-Afghan war and acted as the CIAs intermediary to provide funding, weapons, and training to the Afghan mujahedeen. The opium trade was used to finance the CIA-backed mujahedeen, and the principle beneficiary of CIA support was Gulbaddin Hekmatyar, who was also a principle drug lord.

And while Western media accounts typically tend to characterize todays opium trade as being under the control of the Taliban, the fact is that the estimated amount of funds going to the Taliban and all other anti-government elements combined is less than 14 percent of the total estimated export value, and US intelligence agencies are aware of the involvement of high-level officials within the Afghanistan government in the drug trade, such as Rashid Abdul Dostum, former Chief of Staff to the Commander-in-Chief of the Afghan Armed Forces. Dostum was also among the warlords of the Northern Alliance the CIA doled out suitcases of cash to during the initial phase of the US war to overthrow the Taliban.

Viktor Ivanov, the director of Russias federal anti-narcotics service, said in an interview recently that The gathered inputs testify that infamous regional drug baron Dawood Ibrahim had provided his logistics network for preparing and carrying out the Mumbai terror attacks by the militants. He added that The super profits of the narco-mafia through Afghan heroin trafficking have become a powerful source of financing organized crime and terrorist networks, destabilizing the political systems, including in Central Asia and Caucasus.

A Protected Man in India

The $300 million transfer to Hassan Ali Khan from Adnan Khashoggi was only the tip of the iceberg, an official from ED told the Hindustan Times. There was also evidence of another $290 million, for instance, in two shell companies in the British Virgin Islands. This was among the evidence obtained from the laptop computer seized from Khans home in Pune.

In addition to the money transfers, the ED was investigating Khans possession of three Indian passports. He held passports issued from Pune, Patna, and Mumbai, and had also applied for additional passports from Guwahati and Chandigarh. He and his wife had applied for citizenship in Switzerland.

But it wasnt only the Swiss banks apparent unwillingness to cooperate with Indian investigators that was slowing progress in the inquiry into Khans dealings. The Times of India reported in February that although the Prevention of Money Laundering Act provided for his arrest, the ED had yet to do so. The ED was acting cautiously in this case, sources said. The paper added that It is shocking that Khan could have concealed all that money without Indian agencies getting to know of it.

The report says that The lack of evidence on the transactions seems to have prevented ED from arresting Khan, while at the same time noting that The alleged presence of names of Indian politicians also found from Khans initial questioning by the income tax and ED officials immediately after the raid last year, dont figure anywhere in the submissions made by the ED to the HC [High Court]. The Income tax department has failed to get information from the ED on the sources of the $8 bn, despite asking for it again and again.

In September, the Times of India reported that the intelligence community was seething with anger for being blamed by politicians for its failure to prevent a series of bombings across the country. A senior intelligence official responded to the charges by telling the Times of India that it was the politicians who were at fault, and connected Khan to investigations of terrorism.

Take the case of Hassan Ali, the Pune-based businessman, he said. He was under the scanner of several Central agencies, including the Intelligence Bureau, Enforcement Directorate, Directorate of Revenue Intelligence and other bodies. Finally it was found that he had handled hawala transactions valued at a mind-numbing Rs 35,000 crore through Swiss banks.

Hawala is an informal money transfer system that is an alternative to formal banking institutions. Often, relatively little money actually exchanges hands between hawala brokers, who operate on an honor system. An amount deposited with one broker is not actually moved to another broker on the receiving end. Rather, that amount is simply taken from the receiving brokers own reserves. The only funds that actually need be transferred are those used to offset imbalances between brokers, and there is no record of the transaction between the sender of the funds and the beneficiary.

The hawala system is thus ideal for moving illicit funds and for money laundering. According to a World Bank report, The bulk of drug-related financial flows within Afghanistan, and also to and from neighboring countries (primarily Pakistan), occur through the ubiquitous hawala (informal financial transfer) system.



The report also notes that Dubai appears to be a central clearing point for international hawala activities, and various cities in Pakistan also are major transaction centers. Dubai is a central location for the financial operations of Dawood Ibrahims D-Company.



The September article from the Times of India continued, The bank accounts were traced and he [Khan] was brought in for interrogation. How was it possible for a businessman to have access to so much cash, was the question on everyones mind. The probe was stymied midway by vested interests with political clout. Ali has done the vanishing act. His wife and brother-in-law too are missing. Why was he allowed to go scot free? asked an IPS [Indian Police Service] officer.



Sources said there was no evidence of any concrete link between Ali and terror funds. Nevertheless, why was he taken off the hook? In any other country, he would have been put through the grind given the volume of his transactions. But in India he has been treated with kid gloves because of the political backing that he enjoys, another official said.



In another case, the Mumbai crime branch had gathered evidence about the alleged links between a famous Pune businessman and Pakistan-based brother of don Dawood Ibrahim, Anees Ibrahim.



An eyewitness gave a detailed account of the goings-on between the businessman and Hamid Antulay, Dawoods nephew in Dubai, and later between the trader and Anees in Karachi. However, the businessman has not been arrested despite the disclosures made more than a year ago. We are expected to fight crime, but politicians do not give us a free hand, a crime branch officer complained.



Mohammed Ali



The Times of India also noted that Dawood Ibrahims key contact person is Mohammed Ali, who is known to control smuggling operations in city docks. Any consignment can be taken out or brought into the country by Alis huge gang. A detailed dossier on his activities, which has serious security implications for the country, has been sent to the Union home department. But there has been no response so far, an official said.



Mohammed Ali also seems to be a protected person in India. Just days after the Mumbai terrorist attacks, the Times of India stated that Mumbai residents now know their government has done nothing at all to protect the countrys financial capital, and again noted that The Intelligence Bureau (IB) has sent a detailed dossier about the activities of one Mohammed Ali, who is the uncrowned king of the docks. A close aide of Karachi-based terrorist Dawood Ibrahim, Ali smuggles petrol, diesel, drugs, arms and other contraband with impunity.



There are strong indications, the Times of India added, that the D-gang actively collaborated with the terrorists in these attacks. And yet, the government is reluctant to move against Ali and his gang because he enjoys the patronage of a powerful politician, known to be a business partner of Dawood.



The article adds, however, that Any terror operations needs vast funds, via the hawala route. But the authorities are still to crack down on hawala operators. Recently, they picked up Hasan Ali, a racehorse owner in Pune.



A joint probe by the IB [Intelligence Bureau], enforcement directorate [ED] and directorate of revenue intelligence revealed that Hasan Ali had handled hawala transactions worth a whopping Rs 35,000 crore, much of it belonging to two Maharashtra politicians.



A police officer told the Times of India at the time, before his recent arrest and while he was still missing, I will not be surprised if Hasan Ali has been done away with. He is the man who knows too much.



Hemant Karkare and False Flag Terror



Maharashtra Anti Terrorism Squad (ATS) chief Hemant Karkare, who also formerly an officer in Indias Research Analysis Wing (RAW) intelligence agency, had been in the spotlight for leading the investigation into a series of bombings in the town of Malegaon that was originally blamed on Pakistani-based Muslim terrorists. But Karkares probe revealed that the perpetrators were in fact Hindu extremists. Included in the arrests was a serving army officer, Lt. Col. Prasad Shrikant Purohit.



The revelations of false-flag terrorism being carried out by home-grown elements sent shock waves through the political establishment.



As the Independent reported on November 23, just days before the attacks on Mumbai, Bomb attacks are not uncommon in India  there has been a flurry in recent months  but police usually blame them on Muslim extremists, often said to have links to militant groups based in either Pakistan or Bangladesh. As a result, the recent cracking of the alleged Hindu cell has forced India to face some difficult issues. A country that prides itself on purported religious and cultural toleration  an ambition that in reality often falls short  has been made to ask itself how this cell could operate for so long. Indias military, which prides itself on its professionalism, has been forced to order an embarrassing inquiry.



The near-daily drip of revelations from police has also caused red faces for Indias main political opposition, the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), ahead of state polls and a general election scheduled for early next year. The BJP and its prime ministerial candidate, Lal Krishna Advani, have long accused the Congress Party-led government of being soft on terrorism that involved Muslims. However, the BJP has refused to call for a clampdown on Hindu groups, and last week Mr Advani even criticized the police over the way they questioned one of the alleged cell members



Karkare was put under immense political pressure and was heavily criticized by Hindutva (Hindu nationalist) leaders and members of the BJP. He had received a number of death threats as a result of his investigation, including a threatening call just one day prior to the attacks in Mumbai last month.



Karkare was killed during those attacks. Rumors with far-reaching implications began to spread immediately that he had been deliberately targeted.



Images of Karkare putting on an ill-fitted bullet proof vest just before his death were widely shown on Indian television. Indian Express noted, His last visuals as seen on TV showed him working with his men near the VT station [Victoria Terminus, the former name of the Chatrapati Shivaji central train station], the target of one of the attacks, although it is perplexing at this point in time why such a senior officer ended up getting exposed to a brazen terrorist attack. Initially, he was shown wearing a shoddy helmet normally seen used by constables during riots. A little later, a policeman lowers a flimsy bulletproof vest over his shoulders, one that was obviously of little protection when those fatal shots were fired at him.



According to the Pakistan Daily Mail, Karkare and several of his colleagues had received information that their colleague Sadanand Dutt had been injured in the gunfire at the Cama and Albless Hospital for women and children. As they were driving their truck to the scene, according to the only police officer to survive that attack, Arun Jadhav, two terrorists stepped out from behind a tree and opened fire with automatic rifles.



The Daily Mail article implicated Hindutva elements and Indian intelligence in terrorist attacks, stating that Bal Thakeray, the leader of Shiv Sena, a Hindu nationalist party, has publicly pronounced in the past to setup Hindu suicide squads to target Muslims in India and Pakistan, and claiming that The terrorist activities and training needs of these groups are closely coordinated by the Indian intelligence agencies, particularly RAW, which trained the Tamil separatists groups of Sri Lanka such as the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Elam (LTTE) to start [a] militant secessionist movement based on terrorism in the Sri Lankas Jaffna peninsula.



A government investigation into the assassination of Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi, the Jain Commission, in fact confirmed that The LTTE was getting its supplies, including arms, ammunition, explosives, fuel and other essential items for its war in northern Sri Lanka against the Indian Peace Keeping Force from Tamil Nadu. That too with the support of the Tamil Nadu government and the connivance of the law enforcement authorities.



As noted previously, the investigation found that Adnan Khoshoggi had dealt arms to the LTTE. The commissions report also noted that LTTEs involvement in arms smuggling and other illicit activities were tolerated and that a number of murders demonstrated the impunity with which the LTTE could operate in India.



Earlier this week, Amin Solkar, a lawyer in Mumbai, pressed the High Court to launch an independent investigation into the circumstances under which Karkare was killed. According to India Today, The Muslims in Malegaon have always claimed Karkare was killed by Hindutva militants and not by Qasab.



Qasab is an alternate spelling for Kasab, a reference to Azam Amir Kasab, the only terrorist from last months attacks to be captured alive. A transcript of his confession to interrogators was leaked to the media and contains the following statements: When we were coming out of the hospital premises, we suddenly saw one police vehicle passing in front of us. Therefore, we took shelter behind a bush.



Another vehicle passed in front of us and stopped at some distance. One police officer got down from the said vehicle and started firing at us. One bullet hit my hand and my AK-47 dropped down. I bent to pick it up when second bullet hit me on the same hand. I got injured. Ismail opened fire at the officers who were in said vehicle. They got injured and firing from their side stopped. Kasab and his companion, Ismail, then removed the bodies of three dead officers and apprehended the vehicle.



Assuming this incident is the one in which Karakare and his colleagues were killed, this characterization of events seems to cast doubt on the theory that the officials were deliberately targeted for assassination, set up and ambushed. But the Joint Commissioner of Police Rakesh Maria, who is in charge of the investigation into the attacks, Rakesh Maria, has rejected the authenticity of the confession document.



Pakistans The News reported earlier this week that A Pakistani lawyer C M Farooque claimed that many people, including Ajmal Kasab, were arrested before 2006 from Kathmandu by the Indian agencies with the help of Nepalese forces. Farooque said he was contacted by Kasabs parents and had filed a petition with the Nepalese Supreme Court with regard to the disappeared individuals last February. The people arrested in Nepal, the report added, had gone there on legal visa for business but Indian agencies were in the habit of capturing Pakistanis from Nepal and afterwards implicated them in the Mumbai-like incidents to malign Pakistan.



Kasab is from the Punjab province of Pakistan. Rakesh Maria said last week that He expressed his desire to write a letter to his parents. He wants to write the letter saying he was misled by the group.



More questions about the death of Hemant Karkare were raised this week by Union Minority Affairs Minister A. R. Antulay, who also implied that he may have been deliberately targeted with the involvement of others. Superficially speaking they [the terrorists] had no reason to kill Karkare. Whether he was a victim of terrorism or terrorism plus something I do not know, he told reporters.



Karkare found that there are non-Muslims involved in the acts [of] terrorism during his investigations in some cases. Any person going to the roots of terror has always been the target. He added that There is more than what meets the eye with regard to Karkares killing.



After coming under fire for his remarks, he responded by asking, How come instead of going to Hotel Taj or Oberai or even the Nariman House, he went to such a place where there was nothing compared to what happened in the three places? He asked, Why all the three (Hemant Karakre, Vijay Salaskar and Ashok Kamte) went together. It is beyond my comprehension.



He later defended his remarks further, asking, Who had sent them to Cama Hospital? What were they told that made them leave for the same spot in the same vehicle? He added, I repeat what I had said. I had not said who had killed them but only questioned who had sent them there in that direction.



Rajiv Pratap Rudy, spokesman for the BJP party called the remarks obnoxious and called for a clarification from the Prime Minister whether this was a private view or one held by his government. Congress spokesman Abhishek Singhvi said, we do not accept the innuendo and the aspersions cast by Antulays remarks. This should be the end of the matter. The Congress does not agree with Antulays statement.



Others were more inclined to take the remarks seriously. Union Minister Vilas Paswan noted that Antulay was from Maharashtra and suggested he must therefore have more information.



Vijay Salaskar, who, as previously noted, was killed along with Karkare, had closely investigated the entrenched links between a prominent gutka [a betel-nut and tobacco based product] manufacturer and the Dawood gang, The Times of India reported in an editorial piece. He had unearthed a mass of evidence about the manufacturers visit to Dubai, where he met Hamid Antulay, a nephew of Dawood, and then went on a false Pakistani passport to Karachi where he met the don and his brother Anees. The purpose of the visit was to settle a business dispute with a rival.



Salaskar found out that the manufacturer was Dawoods partner in the gutka business, alongside a leading politician who dabbles in real estate development. Despite Salaskars best efforts, he was never allowed even to summon the manufacturer for questioning.



The editorial continued, The details of Dawoods vast business transactions and the man fronting it are available with the Central government. But there is inaction. Is it any wonder the security agencies are deeply cynical about enforcing law and order and protecting the country? Is it any wonder the people are enraged?



On December 6, Maharashtras former revenue minister Narayan Rane alleged in a press conference that the terrorists who had attacked Mumbai the week before received logistical and financial support from a number of politicians. According to the Press Trust of India, Rane also alleged that former chief minister Vilasrao Deshmukh had links with a person connected with fugitive gangster Dawood Ibrahim.



Indians Arrested in Connection with Attacks



Two Indians were also arrested in connection with the recent Mumbai attacks. One of the men, Tauseef Rahman, reportedly bought SIM cards that were used by the terrorists, which were purchased in Calcutta according to a report from the Associated Press. The other, Mukhtar Ahmed, was an undercover operative of for a special counter-insurgency unit of the Calcutta police force.



Another Indian citizen, Faheem Ansari, was arrested in February and is now being questioned about his possible involvement. According to the AP, he was found carrying hand-drawn sketches of hotels, the train terminal and other sites that were later attacked. According to lead investigator Rakesh Maria, Ansari was trained by Lashkar and sent to do reconnaissance.



Indias top law enforcement official, Home Minister Palaniappan Chidambaram, apologized for failing to stop the attacks, saying There have been lapses. I would be less than truthful if I said there had been no lapses.



In fact, as previously reported by Foreign Policy Journal, Indian intelligence had numerous warnings of an imminent attack, both from its own sources and from the US. The warnings were specific, including that it would come from the sea. Mumbai, and even the Taj Mahal hotel, were identified as specific targets.



Additionally, Rakesh Maria said his investigation was looking into the possible involvement of Riyaz Bhatkal, the leader of the Indian Mujahideen (IM), in the attacks. We are looking at various possibilities about who could have provided vital local support and intelligence. Bhatkal being a local person is known to have links with terror outfits.



In October, Indian Express reported that Bhatkal and a terrorist named Shahrukh might be the same individual. Sources said that since his name was linked to the 1993 Mumbai blasts, Bhatkal may have used the name Shahrukh to protect his identity, the newspaper said. One official said, For the 1993 blasts, he arranged money from Pakistan through hawala channels. But he could not be arrested. In addition, Officials also suspect an underworld link to the blasts. Since Bhatkals name came up in the Mumbai blasts, it is evident that he is an important financial link for the underworld, said a source.



Whitewash of the Attacks



Foreign Policy Journal previously reported on indications that the role of Dawood Ibrahim and his network of organized crime in the attacks in Mumbai last month is being downplayed by both Pakistan and the US and assessed that this was possibly the result of a deal taking place behind the scenes between the governments of the US, Pakistan, and India, to have others involved in the Mumbai attacks turned over while quietly diverting attention from a man who some say could reveal embarrassing secrets about the CIAs involvement in criminal enterprises.



Whats clear now, as further developments have come to light, is that there are also elements within India, both in the criminal underworld and the government, that are perfectly willing to see the role in the Mumbai attacks of an even larger shadowy international criminal network whitewashed; a network with links to numerous moneyed interests, including trafficking in drugs and arms, and to numerous intelligence agencies, including the ISI, the CIA, and Indias own RAW.



While Dawood Ibrahim is officially a wanted man in the US and India, and is on Interpol's wanted list, the evidence emerging from last months terrorist attacks in Mumbai is yet another indication that what is commonly referred to as a shadow government or deep state extending well beyond national boundaries is really pulling the strings behind the scenes in countries around the world, while the publicsuch as the residents of Mumbaiand well-intentioned individuals within their democratically-elected governments are left paying the price, often in blood.



Jeremy R. HammondJeremy R. Hammond is the editor of Foreign Policy Journal, a website dedicated to providing news, critical analysis, and opinion commentary on U.S. foreign policy from outside of the standard framework offered by government officials and the mainstream corporate media, particularly with regard to the "war on terrorism" and events in the Middle East. He has also written for numerous other online publications. You can contact him at jeremy@foreignpolicyjournal.com.

© 2008 Foreign Policy Journal


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## cmohan

ahmed said:


> by reading this ,i can suggest two things about you ,weather your level of knowledge is too low or you are the person with immature mind .......
> 
> 1: First thing if you want to give favor to PAKISTAN by surgical strikes ,YOU must use that favor to your own country ,*you know more than 200 extremist organizations running in your country , i think PAF must help you to eliminate all these terrorists by surgical strikes *,what you say about this ??????
> 2: Zardari and Gillani are our political leaders and they are in favor of PAKISTAN ,i think you must be thankfull to them because of their peaceful nature youR ASStill unharmed otherwise our ARM FORCES know well how to kick INDIANS ***,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,



Guys please forgive me, I was molested by a cow when I was young.


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## TOPGUN

cmohan said:


> Guys please forgive me, I was molested by a cow when I was young.



I think the only time is coming is to bring you and your cowardly country back to reality and as far as poke thing goes sorry boss not a gay forum u need to take that to where ever u came from talk some damn sense and come with come knowledge dont disrespect here or u might get beaten with somthing  so be decent and respectful our your time will be here done very soon   learn some manners boy or u gona be out here real quick !!


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## Bilsher007

jarnee said:


> *Surgical strikes will be in Pakistan's Favour. India will avenge Benazir's murderers. *Bec. of political reasons Zardari and Giliani cannot directly engage in getting rid of them. PAK armed forces/Nukes are out of his controls. This is the the conspiracy, Let Zahid Hameed know. He is fantasizing weird things.
> India and Zardari are together in this. 2x1 against LET / Jammad U'dawa.




How dare you come on this forum and make that statement, mods need to ban this scumbag. The surgical strikes which will really make a difference is when pakistan Air Force strikes places of it's choices and eliminates indian terrorists. Don't provoke us cause the final result is going to hurt india not pakistan. 

You think our PAF will happily let you make surgical strikes ?? We will erase you whole country from the face of the earth understand. You better take defence analyst zaid hamid's statement's seriously. 

Who rogue country is full of homegrown terrorists, mods please ban him for the above statement. 
PAKISTAN ZINDABAD...INDIA MURDABAD


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## Bilsher007

Indicom said:


> heello, I have no life. I work in an Indian call center. Thank you come again



dON'T TALK NONSENSE ON THIS FORUM, YOU WLL FIND OUT SOON DON'T WORRY ... INDIA IS GOING TO BE WIPED OFF THE FACE OFF EARTH INSHALLAH.


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## Bilsher007

cmohan said:


> Guys please forgive me, I was molested by a cow when I was young.



mODS WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR..BAN ALL THESE ****** INDIANS, YOU ARE COMING AFTER US ? ..OHH I SEE..WE WILL BLEED YOUR SHINDIA UNTILL YOU ARE ERASED FROM EARTH . 

THE ONLY DOGS YOU NEED TO TAKE CARE OF ARE ALL IN INDIA LIKE RSS, BJP, BAJRANG DAL AND OTHER TERRORISTS. 

GET READY TO GET NUKED ...

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

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## TOPGUN

I think we need to start banning some disrespectful members/haterz that disrespect here and only bring hatered i hope mods /admin & members agree with me plzz comment !! thx.

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## t-birds

*Pakistan military on 'red alert'*
Pakistan military on 'red alert' :: www.uruknet.info :: informazione dall'Iraq occupato :: news from occupied Iraq :: - it







December 22, 2008


Pakistan's media is reporting that the country's military is on high alert over a possible strike by India.

Monday's reports come after a ratcheting up of tension between the two countries following attacks in Mumbai last month which killed 163 people.

Kamal Hyder, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Pakistan, said the local media attributed its reports to military sources, who were confirming that the navy, air force and army were on red alert.

"The Pakistani air force have been seen visibly in a number of locations flying close to the Pakistani-India border in what is being described as an aggressive patrolling mode, following reports that India is planning pre-emptive strikes against locations in Pakistan," Hyder reported.

"Chiefs of the three forces are meeting in what is being described as an emergency meeting in general headquarters in Rawalpindi.

"Only after the meeting is over will we come to know if it is a red alert or a heightened state of alert."

Hyder said that observers are saying that the Congress party in India has lost prestige due to the Mumbai attacks and, therefore, may try a show of strength in Pakistan.

Delayed civilian flights

The Reuters news agency quoted a Pakistan airline official as saying the Pakistani air force had conducted an exercise on Monday causing delays to two civilian flights.

"Two of our flights were delayed for some time because the PAF was conducting some exercises, but now everything is back on normal," Muhammad Latif, a spokesman for Pakistan International Airlines, said.

The flights were delayed at the airport in Lahore, near the Indian border, Latif said, while dismissing television reports of a high alert at Pakistani airports.

An air force spokesman declined to comment when asked about an exercise, saying only: "In view of the current environment, the PAF has enhanced its vigilance."

Divya Gopalan, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Srinagar, in India-controlled Kashmir, said that the Indian media was looking at Monday's reports with some degree of scepticism.

"They are saying that Pakistan is creating an artificial war hysteria to divert attention from the fact that they are under pressure from the Indian security services to deal with the Mumbai terror attacks."

'No red alerts'

Asad Durrani, the former head of Pakistani intelligence, told Al Jazeera that Pakistan was asked to do more to deal with individuals behind the Mumbai attacks. He dismissed the notion that the two states were on the brink of war.

"The media is building up a scenario in which one may get the impression that we are close to war.

"This is not the stage that the two forces are going to go on that sort of alert."

But Brigadier-General Naeem Salik, a retired Pakistani military analyst, told Al Jazeera from Islamabad: "There have been very threatening statements [from India] saying that they do not rule out military options, and they have been talking about punishing Pakistan.

"So it is obviously natural for Pakistan to heighten its alert levels and be on guard. We cannot let the Indians have a free-run and it is a response to what is happening across the borders."

Ravi Sawhney, an Indian security analyst, told Al Jazeera: "It is not threatening talk at all. It is talking facts. We have been assaulted. A terror attack was launched on us. And the perpetrators of that attack were Pakistanis.

"So we have have been telling Pakistan very gently, very firmly, to take action against these people, who committed this heinous crime in Bombay.

"There has a been a flip-flop that has lasted about 10 or 15 days, so our government has told the Pakistanis to please take action, otherwise all options are on the table."

'Introspection'

Both Sawhney and Salik said that their countries needed "introspection" to calm the rising tensions.

"Pakistan needs some introspection," Sawhney said. "We have one man who is already in our custody who has given irrefutable evidence that he is Pakistani."

"They should start looking inward and take action against the jihadis and terrorists, not only for our and the international community's sake, but for their own sake."

Salik said: "Talking of introspection, I think it's needed on both sides. There have been incidents of serving Indian military officers involved in the bombing of a Pakistan-bound train in which 68 Pakistanis were killed.

"If we keep blaming others for our own internal problems, then we are going to get nowhere. We both need to talk to each other and co-operate rather than threaten each other."

Last week, Pakistan summoned a senior Indian diplomat in Islamabad to protest against recent alleged airspace violations by Indian warplanes.

Indian fighter jets had crossed into Pakistani airspace over Kashmir and Punjab province, the government said on December 13.

Pakistan said its own fighter jets were scrambled to chase off the intruders, but it also played down the incident by describing the violations as "technical" and "inadvertent".

India denied any violation of Pakistani airspace.


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## Bilsher007

dabloo said:


> *So do you agree, that there are terrorist in Jammu & Kashmir,* what about your own friends in bangladesh killing and raping hindu women and girls be called. can you define it.
> 
> Dont pretend to be Bangladeshi, if you are Pakistani.
> 
> 
> Dabloo



THE ONLY TERRORISTS IN JAMMU & KASHMIR ARE INDIAN ARMY. WHO KILLED 70,000-100,000 INNOCENT KASHMIRI MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN ? ANSWER THE QUESTION ?

WHY DID THESE PEOPLE DIE ? DUE TO ISI ..*NO* DUE TO LASKAR-E-TAIBA ...*NO*...ONLY INDIAN ARMY KILLED THEM DUE TO INSECURITY AND RACISM. THOSE INNOCENT KASHMIRIS WERE KILLED INDISCRIMINATELY. YOU INDIANS HAVE NO JUSTIFIED ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION ABSOLUTELY NO JUSTIFIED ANSWER.

JUMMU & KASHMIR WILL BE LIBERATED VERY SOON AND ALL OTHER GROUPS FIGHTING FOR INDEPENDENCE IN ORISSA, ASSAM, NAGALAND, PUNJAB AND OTHER STATES.

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## Ahassan

well reports r cummin that India is going to attack pak after 26th of dec!!!


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## linkinpark

*FBI winds up Mumbai terror probe; unearths Pak role*

PTI | December 23, 2008 | 16:48 IST

Less than a month after the unprecedented terror strikes in Mumbai, the Federal Bureau of Investigation has completed its probe in India and found evidence of a Pakistan security establishment being involved in the carnage. 

An FBI team is likely to go there to prepare a chargesheet against the guilty.

As the FBI winds up the probe that commenced on December one, top US Intelligence official John Michael McConnell, who heads the Director of National Intelligence, air dashed to New Delhi and held series of meetings with the FBI team probing the case.

The FBI is understood to have found evidence about the role of a Pakistani security establishment other than the ISI being involved in the November 26 terror strikes in Mumbai that left over 180 people dead including six American nationals, official sources said.

While the name of the Pakistan establishment involved in the attack was not clear immediately, the sources did not rule out the possibility of active and direct involvement of its Army.

The sources said McConnell has passed on the findings of FBI team to the officials in the government and the US probe agency would now be giving final touches to chargesheet in which it would be naming the accused persons. 

The FBI had registered a case in the Mumbai terror strikes as according to the US laws, the agency had to file a chargesheet in case of a death or torture of any American national outside the country.

The top US official also held series of meetings with Union Home Minister P Chidambaram and senior officials including National Security Advisor M K Narayanan and discussed issues relating to evidence gathered so far in the probe in the 26/11 terror strikes, the sources said.

Director of National Intelligence (DNI) is considered to be the most powerful intelligence official of the US government under direct command and control of the US President and reports to him only. &#65533;

The role of the DNI is to effectively integrate foreign, military and domestic intelligence in defence of the homeland and of the US' interests abroad from its 16 spy agencies. It came into existence after the audacious 9/11 attacks in the US.

The FBI officials, before completing the probe, had questioned Kasab, the lone Lashkar-e-Tayiba militant involved in November 26 terror strikes, for over nine hours recently to ascertain about his role and handlers in Pakistan.

During the questioning session, the FBI sleuths asked the arrested Lashkar terrorist minor details about his native places, including the lanes and by-lanes of the area. Kasab hails from Ukkad area of Faridkot district in Pakistan.

The FBI had also taken the DNA samples of the nine Lashkar terrorists killed in Mumbai to ascertain whether it matched with anyone in their data bank or has any relations with persons killed during operations of Allied Forces in Afghanistan.


URL for this article:
FBI winds up Mumbai terror probe; finds Pak role


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## Quwa

linkinpark said:


> Interpol has no teeth. It is a waste of time to give evidence to them. They were given evidence on Dawood Ibrahim, they have sounded a Interpol alert, what happened?. Squat happened.


Just give the damn evidence! 

The lack of evidence is the key issue here, and clearly India is not cooperating.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Mark Sien said:


> Just give the damn evidence!
> 
> The lack of evidence is the key issue here, and clearly India is not cooperating.



India's trying to play a larger game here and attempting to get Pakistan to dismantle the entire Kashmiri Freedom movement.

That is why no evidence is being shared. India wants Pakistan to act on 'past information' and the 'evidence it already has'

Translation: Take apart and shut down all of the Kashmiri insurgent camps and organizations.

If India actually cooperated and shared evidence on the Mumbai attacks, and Pakistan acted against Lakhvi and Saeed, then Pakistan would be eulogized for 'acting against terrorism', and India would have no room to pressure Pakistan on the international stage.

India at this point does not care about Mumbai - the Mumbai attacks are being used as a pawn to pressure Pakistan. In fact, the longer the case goes unsolved, the more India gains in terms of putting pressure on Pakistan.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

What a contradicting piece of hogwash.

The ISI is the military's covert operations arm, and is staffed by Army, Navy and AF officers. All the resources for covert operations would be available through the ISI.

If it isn't the ISI, then it likely isn't the Army, Navy or AF either.

I suppose some in local law enforcement could be involved.


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## jeypore

> India actually cooperated and shared evidence on the Mumbai attacks, and Pakistan acted against Lakhvi and Saeed, then Pakistan would be eulogized for 'acting against terrorism', and India would have no room to pressure Pakistan on the international stage.



Am, I really do not understand what did you mean by this statement, maybe you need to elaborate for me more. Question Why would India not benefit when if Pakistan is acting aganist terrorism. Currently, it is clear that it is not, even though everyone in the gov't agnecies knows that they are rogue.


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## batmannow

GUSS what india doesnt have any thing "called proof" or "damn evidence"!


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

jeypore said:


> Am, I really do not understand what did you mean by this statement, maybe you need to elaborate for me more. Question Why would India not benefit when if Pakistan is acting aganist terrorism. Currently, it is clear that it is not, even though everyone in the gov't agnecies knows that they are rogue.



India wants Pakistan to completely dismantle the Kashmiri Freedom movement and support for it. Either that or it wants to isolate and sanction Pakistan internationally by linking the Kashmiri freedom movement to terrorism. 

That is why India isn't sharing evidence on Mumbai specifically. Because if India shared evidence and cooperated, Pakistan would most likely charge Saeed and Lakhvi in court, and if the evidence was strong, they would get convicted. But when that happens, all pressure is off Pakistan because she will have 'acted against terrorism' and 'brought the Mumbai perpetrators to task'.

India doesn't want that - she wants to use this opportunity to mount pressure on Pakistan to dismantle the entire Kashmiri movement, like I said above. The longer the Mumbai perpetrators remain unpunished, the longer India can attempt to sustain pressure on Pakistan, and try and tie the entire Kashmiri movement to terrorism. If the yardstick for 'cooperation' becomes action against the Kashmiri movement, instead of action against the LeT, JuD Lakhvi or Saeed, then Pakistan can really be pressured and isolated.

The Mumbai attacks have become a pawn in this game.


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## jeypore

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> What a contradicting piece of hogwash.
> 
> The ISI is the military's covert operations arm, and is staffed by Army, Navy and AF officers. All the resources for covert operations would be available through the ISI.
> 
> If it isn't the ISI, then it likely isn't the Army, Navy or AF either.
> 
> I suppose some in local law enforcement could be involved.



I do not think it is contradicting at all, even though the FBI did not find direct link to ISI, but it did find a somewhat obsure agency that is linked to the army.



> While the name of the Pakistan establishment involved in the attack was not clear immediately, the sources did not rule out the possibility of active and direct involvement of its Army.




So, after said in done FBI did find a link with the army. That is part of the Pakistan gov't.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

jeypore said:


> I do not think it is contradicting at all, even though the FBI did not find direct link to ISI, but it did find a somewhat obsure agency that is linked to the army.
> 
> So, after said in done FBI did find a link with the army. That is part of the Pakistan gov't.



Let me address your second statement first. No, the FBI has not said that it found a link with the army and therefore has not said anything about a link with the GoP. You need to read these media reports out of India more carefully.


> *the sources *did *not rule out the possibility* of active and direct involvement of its Army


The 'sources' in the Indian media have become a laughing stock with all the contradictory information put out after the Mumbai attacks, and it is a 'source' claiming this, not the FBI, at this point.

Second, even the 'source' has said nothing categorical about any institutional Pakistani involvement, stating instead that they 'do not rule out the possibility'. You could also 'not rule out the possibility' that UFO's planned this.


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## Energon

In addition to heavy common sense filters, I think there should be a move to refer to at least 2 sources on such topics: one Indian/Pakistani; and the other a Western source. 

Given the dearth of quality journalism in south Asia, it isn't wise to rely upon many of their media publications as primary sources for important information. I'm not saying that everything they publish is false, or that CNN is completely free of infotainment. But let's try and have multiple corroborative sources from various backgrounds.

Investigations of this sort take weeks if not months to complete; and this particular one is primarily limited to US, British and Indian intelligence/ law enforcement agencies with the sole intention of not letting out critical information until it has been corroborated internally, and releasing verified information broadly to all media outlets. It is hence highly unlikely that tabloid outfits like Rediff or their Pakistani counterparts can obtain scoops about the FBI's findings are so prematurely categorically implicating or vindicating Pakistan.


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## linkinpark

Energon, this is a PTI news, which is syndicated to all the news outlets in India.


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## jeypore

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> India wants Pakistan to completely dismantle the Kashmiri Freedom movement and support for it. Either that or it wants to isolate and sanction Pakistan internationally by linking the Kashmiri freedom movement to terrorism.
> 
> That is why India isn't sharing evidence on Mumbai specifically. Because if India shared evidence and cooperated, Pakistan would most likely charge Saeed and Lakhvi in court, and if the evidence was strong, they would get convicted. But when that happens, all pressure is off Pakistan because she will have 'acted against terrorism' and 'brought the Mumbai perpetrators to task'.
> 
> India doesn't want that - she wants to use this opportunity to mount pressure on Pakistan to dismantle the entire Kashmiri movement, like I said above. The longer the Mumbai perpetrators remain unpunished, the longer India can attempt to sustain pressure on Pakistan, and try and tie the entire Kashmiri movement to terrorism. If the yardstick for 'cooperation' becomes action against the Kashmiri movement, instead of action against the LeT, JuD Lakhvi or Saeed, then Pakistan can really be pressured and isolated.
> 
> The Mumbai attacks have become a pawn in this game.




Maybe so, But India has already proclaimed to the UN and world that any Kashmire movement is a terrorist organization. The world has known this for last 30 years or so, as well as the world also knowns that Pakistan considers the same movement as freedom fighters. There is nothing new in this argument.

Your elaborate skim in this matter lacks the above. I simply believe that India completly wants any terrorist movement in Pakistan to be ended, and any organizations abiding them and funding them, even individuals (Dawood).

There is no grand scheme, the Indian gov't is simply acting on behave of peoples anger, and the mumbai attack has finally did break the camals back in terrorist activities in India.


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## Energon

linkinpark said:


> Energon, this is a PTI news, which is syndicated to all the news outlets in India.


If this is verified, it will be picked up by news networks around the world, and you can quote other sources; at which point I will be more than happy to share my thoughts regarding the matter.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

linkinpark said:


> Energon, this is a PTI news, which is syndicated to all the news outlets in India.



That would still be similar to the APP (Associated Press of Pakistan). 

It is pretty objective, but nonetheless will toe the Pakistani line on foreign and India related issues.


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## jeypore

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Let me address your second statement first. No, the FBI has not said that it found a link with the army and therefore has not said anything about a link with the GoP. You need to read these media reports out of India more carefully.
> 
> The 'sources' in the Indian media have become a laughing stock with all the contradictory information put out after the Mumbai attacks, and it is a 'source' claiming this, not the FBI, at this point.
> 
> Second, even the 'source' has said nothing categorical about any institutional Pakistani involvement, stating instead that they 'do not rule out the possibility'. You could also 'not rule out the possibility' that UFO's planned this.



Am, let me reiterate:

*While the name of the Pakistan establishment involved in the attack was not clear immediately*, the sources did not rule out the possibility of active and direct involvement of its Army. 

The name of establishment is not given, but by this statement they are giving a clue of active gov't personal did have some form of hand in it.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Threads merged.


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## linkinpark

*Half-baked investigation reports cannot be shared: CBI chief*


New Delhi, Dec 24 (PTI) India did not want to give any "half-baked" findings to any international body on the 26/11 Mumbai terror strikes and such a process will be undertaken only after investigations are complete, a top official said.
"We did share some (basic) information with Interpol. But unless the investigation is complete, how can we share the (full) information," CBI Director Ashwini Kumar told reporters here.

The reaction came within hours after Interpol Secretary General Ronald Noble's statement in Islamabad that the Indian government did not share information related to Mumbai terror attack.

Noble had said in Islamabad that New Delhi has not yet authorised its investigators to share information.

Kumar, who is also de-facto India's Interpol head, said New Delhi cannot give "half-baked" information to anyone on sensitive investigation.

Noble had visited India last week-end and met Union Home Minister P Chidamabaram and Kumar where he offered Interpol's help in probing the Mumbai terror attack.

One of the teams had met officials of the Mumbai crime branch yesterday, which are probing the terror strikes in the financial capital of the country. PTI

Half-baked investigation reports cannot be shared: CBI chief


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

jeypore said:


> Am, let me reiterate:
> 
> *While the name of the Pakistan establishment involved in the attack was not clear immediately*, the sources did not rule out the possibility of active and direct involvement of its Army.
> 
> The name of establishment is not given, but by this statement they are giving a clue of active gov't personal did have some form of hand in it.



First, only a source is claiming so, and not the FBI. And my previous comments about 'sources' in the media since the Mumbai attacks stand.

Secondly, even the 'source' is not categorically claiming the Army was involved. This 'agency' could be local police for all we know, acting on their own without government knowledge.

I would suggest taking Energon's advice on this.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Then Indian government officials should shove their 'half-baked investigation' into their pie holes and quit ranting and squealing about Pakistan not cooperating.

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## blain2

linkinpark said:


> *Half-baked investigation reports cannot be shared: CBI chief*
> 
> 
> New Delhi, Dec 24 (PTI) India did not want to give any "half-baked" findings to any international body on the 26/11 Mumbai terror strikes and such a process will be undertaken only after investigations are complete, a top official said.
> "We did share some (basic) information with Interpol. But unless the investigation is complete, how can we share the (full) information," CBI Director Ashwini Kumar told reporters here.
> 
> The reaction came within hours after Interpol Secretary General Ronald Noble's statement in Islamabad that the Indian government did not share information related to Mumbai terror attack.
> 
> Noble had said in Islamabad that New Delhi has not yet authorised its investigators to share information.
> 
> Kumar, who is also de-facto India's Interpol head, said New Delhi cannot give "half-baked" information to anyone on sensitive investigation.
> 
> Noble had visited India last week-end and met Union Home Minister P Chidamabaram and Kumar where he offered Interpol's help in probing the Mumbai terror attack.
> 
> One of the teams had met officials of the Mumbai crime branch yesterday, which are probing the terror strikes in the financial capital of the country. PTI
> 
> Half-baked investigation reports cannot be shared: CBI chief



So in light of all this, what is Pakistan suppose to do with the Indian charges? Run around arresting people and putting them in jails indefinitely? The Indian charges are just allegations at this point in time. Give Pakistan some proof which is not half-***, half-baked in a transparent manner (instead of the lies that Pakistan has already been given proof) and then we will see Pakistan take action. 

Without any of the above, India's threats to "Do something about this threat" are provocations.

This is the height of ignorance. You have been crying all this time that Pakistan is not moving, not doing anything, yet the reality is that nothing has been shared by India aside from an uncorroborated letter from one of the gunmen asking for help. Pakistan will need a lot more than that to prosecute alleged backers of this plot.

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## linkinpark

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Then Indian government officials should shove their 'half-baked investigation' into their pie holes and quit ranting and squealing about Pakistan not cooperating.



But that doesn't mean that preliminary evidence is not good enough to accuse the Pakistan based elements such as Kasab's confessions, satellite intercepts etc. Probably, they are waiting to make it more air tight evidence to make the case stand in court.

Though I understand your angst about GoI not sharing evidence with GoP, but I guess eventually it will have to be shared with GoP to take moral high ground before further accusing Pakistan. Let's see.


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## PakShaheen79

Wow... another great by US establishment. FBI completed inquiry so fast , I think it must be a world record and the base of it is interrogation from Ajmal Kasab which is not proven a Pakistan yet anywhere.


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## Jihad

Certain people are seriously not doing this forum any good in the way they represent themselves.


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## blain2

linkinpark said:


> Interpol has no teeth. It is a waste of time to give evidence to them. They were given evidence on Dawood Ibrahim, they have sounded a Interpol alert, what happened?. Squat happened.



Who cares about them not having any teeth? The issue is that NOTHING has been given to Pakistan as concrete evidence. If Interpol can't take action, they can still transmit the information to the Pakistani officials about what Indians are claiming against and charging the Pakistani citizens with.

Currently the issue is that the USG is too polite to tell the Indians to put up evidence as they realize that there is anger and pushing the GoI at this time would be counter productive. There are no other players here who can transmit the information between India and Pakistan other than the US or some international entity like the Interpol. So in the absence of this exchange of information, Pakistan cannot be expected to act blindly.


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## Energon

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> India wants Pakistan to completely dismantle the Kashmiri Freedom movement and support for it. Either that or it wants to isolate and sanction Pakistan internationally by linking the Kashmiri freedom movement to terrorism.
> 
> That is why India isn't sharing evidence on Mumbai specifically. Because if India shared evidence and cooperated, Pakistan would most likely charge Saeed and Lakhvi in court, and if the evidence was strong, they would get convicted. But when that happens, all pressure is off Pakistan because she will have 'acted against terrorism' and 'brought the Mumbai perpetrators to task'.
> 
> India doesn't want that - she wants to use this opportunity to mount pressure on Pakistan to dismantle the entire Kashmiri movement, like I said above. The longer the Mumbai perpetrators remain unpunished, the longer India can attempt to sustain pressure on Pakistan, and try and tie the entire Kashmiri movement to terrorism. If the yardstick for 'cooperation' becomes action against the Kashmiri movement, instead of action against the LeT, JuD Lakhvi or Saeed, then Pakistan can really be pressured and isolated.
> 
> The Mumbai attacks have become a pawn in this game.


This is categorically wrong on multiple levels. And if you think the Indian authorities "don't care about Mumbai" or are "using it as a pawn" you're horribly ill informed about the current Indian situation. I understand you are upset that Pakistan is being castigated in front of the entire world, but you're also overlooking the seriousness of what has transpired in Mumbai. This isn't some PR game or banal indo-pak saber rattling.


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## blain2

Energon said:


> This is categorically wrong on multiple levels. And if you think the Indian authorities "don't care about Mumbai" or are "using it as a pawn" you're horribly ill informed about the current Indian situation. I understand you are upset that Pakistan is being castigated in front of the entire world, but you're also overlooking the seriousness of what has transpired in Mumbai. This isn't some PR game or banal indo-pak saber rattling.



The fact that this is an extra-ordinary event in the eyes of the Indian officials and public is all the more reason that evidence revealing the Pakistani connections be made available to the GoP transparently. Who does it hurt more? India or Pakistan to share this evidence? If you place the evidence in front of the Interpol, they relay it to Pakistan, then this blame game of "I did send, no I did not receive" ends right there. Secondly, once this is done, Pakistan has to take a look at the evidence and then act upon it. There is no other way. You essentially are taking options of delaying tactics away from Pakistan. Give evidence. Pakistani public too would like to see what these perpetrators have been up to giving Pakistan a bad name.

In the absence of such evidence, all this posturing by India will backfire greatly. The more this bullying without information goes on, the harder the resolve on the Pakistani side to deflect Indian pressure come what may. Not a win-win for anyone.


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## Imran Khan

*Int*erpol chief says India has not shared info on Mumbai










ISLAMABAD ( 2008-12-23 18:32:12 ) :The chief of Interpol said on Tuesday that India had not yet authorised the sharing of any information with the global police agency about those allegedly involved in the Mumbai attacks.

Interpol secretary general Ronald Noble made the statement after talks with Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik about the ongoing investigation into the attacks.

"To date, India's government has not authorised India's police agencies to enter any data relating to the recent terrorist attacks in Mumbai into Interpol's databases," Noble told a joint press conference.

"The information Interpol has about what happened in Mumbai is the same information that you have -- it's information that was read in journals, that was read on the Internet or that was seen on TV."

New Delhi has blamed last month's attacks, which left 172 people dead, on the banned Pakistan-based militant group.

Noble said Pakistan had been "among the most active contributors" to Interpol's efforts in the past, adding officials here told him they "would be willing to cooperate via Interpol to help India further its investigation."

"We want to bring the culprits to justice," Malik, who has been leading Pakistan's counter-terrorism efforts, told reporters.

"We are prepared to cooperate with India but they have to bring us evidence."

When asked if it was unusual for India not to have agreed to Interpol's request for data-sharing, the Interpol chief said it was New Delhi's "sovereign choice" to decide when and if to agree.

But he expressed hope that more information would soon be forthcoming, following the deployment of a team of Interpol investigators in India this past week.

In talks with Indian Home Minister P. Chidambaram at the weekend, Noble had promised to help New Delhi gather information about the 10 Mumbai attackers, nine of whom were killed.


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## Energon

blain2 said:


> The fact that this is an extra-ordinary event in the eyes of the Indian officials and public is all the more reason that evidence revealing the Pakistani connections be made available to the GoP transparently. Who does it hurt more? India or Pakistan to share this evidence? If you place the evidence in front of the Interpol, they relay it to Pakistan, then this blame game of "I did send, no I did not receive" ends right there. Secondly, once this is done, Pakistan has to take a look at the evidence and then act upon it. There is no other way. You essentially are taking options of delaying tactics away from Pakistan. Give evidence. Pakistani public too would like to see what these perpetrators have been up to giving Pakistan a bad name.
> 
> In the absence of such evidence, all this posturing by India will backfire greatly. The more this bullying without information goes on, the harder the resolve on the Pakistani side to deflect Indian pressure come what may. Not a win-win for anyone.


 I think the main reason for limiting the investigation to the US, British and Indian intelligence/law enforcement agencies is because of the absolute lack of trust in the Pakistani establishment. Every piece of information that is availed immediately makes the entire investigation vulnerable because the Pakistani authorities can make people disappear and render future leads inert with relative ease. The US is partly to blame for this given how easily we were able to have thousands of people captured/kidnapped and held in secrecy for prolonged durations. In most developing nations with poor infrastructure and information management, especially Pakistan, where even the ages of their prominent cricketers can't be established, this always remains an issue. Also historically the cooperative attempts between India and Pakistan have never yielded in positive results. The IA flight 814 debacle is only one of many disappointments. Pakistan at the time was supposedly cooperating, but they denied knowing the whereabouts of the likes of Maulana Masood Azhar and Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh only for both of them being arrested in Pakistan at the behest of the US later on.

Whether the Pakistani establishment intends to be serious this time around is something nobody knows (and even the most hawkish of Indians can't rule out this possibility), however there is far too much at stake and the history is far too tainted for such a sensitive matter to be entrusted to them. Also the recent recantation by Zardari and the embarrassing revelation by Nawaz Sharif that followed it didn't help bolster any confidence.


----------



## dabong1

hussaindxb said:


> EVIDENCE FROM NEUTRAL SOURCES (READ CAREFULLY)
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Revealed: home of Mumbai's gunman in Pakistan village (UNITED KINGDOM)
> 
> Revealed: home of Mumbai's gunman in Pakistan village | World news | The Observer
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> SOON AFTER GUARDIAN GEO TV & DAWN CONFIRMED GUARDIANS POST
> ON NEWS CHANNELS
> 
> KASAB WAS DECLARED A PAKISTANI NATIONAL
> BUT HIS VILLAGE WAS LATER SEALED BY POLICE AND INVESTIGATORS WERE NOT ALLOWED TO ENTER ANYMORE
> FEARED VILLAGERS WERE THEN PRESSURIZED TO FILE A COMPLAIN AGAINST PAKISTANI NEWS CHANNELS
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mullen urges 'productive' India-Pakistan ties (UNITED STATES CONFIRMS)
> 
> DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Mullen urges 'productive' India-Pakistan ties
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> FINALLY A POST THAT PROVES ALL THE ABOVE. (NAWAZ SHARIF'S VIEWS)
> THE VIDEO AND ARTICLES WERE SOON RELEASED ON ALL NEWS CHANNELS INCLUDING CNN,BBC AND ALMOST ALL INDIAN NEWS CHANNELS
> 
> Kasab belongs to Pakistan, says Nawaz Sharif
> VIDEO IS AVAILABLE ON YOUTUBE
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I URGE ALL MY PAKISTANI BROTHERS AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE FORUM TO READ THIS AND GIVE ME THEIR VIEWS
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------




Go back to sleep......the above have been answered a hundered times....check the forum


----------



## koolio

According to Rehman malik advisor to prime minister on interior Ajmal kasabs name has been checked in (NADRA) National Database and Registration Authority, *Ajmal Kasabs name does'nt exist*


----------



## BATMAN

Energon said:


> I think the main reason for limiting the investigation to the *US, British *and Indian intelligence/law enforcement agencies is because of the absolute lack of trust in the Pakistani establishment.


Since when india started trusting US more than USSR? Or was it india double crossign USSR all the way!



> Whether the Pakistani establishment intends to be serious this time around is something nobody knows (and even the most hawkish of Indians can't rule out this possibility), however there is far too much at stake and the history is far too tainted for such a sensitive matter to be entrusted to them. Also the recent recantation by Zardari and the embarrassing revelation by Nawaz Sharif that followed it didn't help bolster any confidence.


Statements of our politicians supported indian claims, than why are they not helpful to u ?
When establishment issue statement u tell us Zardari lacks control and when only Zardari is speaking in ur favor, still it is not enough.
Can u be more precise how ur confidence on Pakistan establishment can be boosted ?


----------



## Energon

BATMAN said:


> Since when india started trusting US more than USSR? Or was it india double crossign USSR all the way!


 Russia is not involved in this investigation, only the US and the UK are, from what I understand. The relationship between the US and India started changing in the mid-late 90s.




BATMAN said:


> Statements of our politicians supported indian claims, than why are they not helpful to u ?
> When establishment issue statement u tell us Zardari lacks control and when only Zardari is speaking in ur favor, still it is not enough.
> Can u be more precise how ur confidence on Pakistan establishment can be boosted ?


It is the conflicting news that is doing damage. I honestly do not know why Zardari made those comments, he has actually jeopardized Pakistan's position further. The point still remains that there is absolutely no faith in the Pakistani establishment and any attempts at cooperation will only result in an investigation being compromised.


----------



## Incredible India

*Pak soldier among militants nabbed in Jammu *

Jammu: Three terrorists of the Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) hailing from Pakistan, who were planning a suicide attack in this winter capital of Jammu and Kashmir, have been arrested. *One of them is a Pakistani army regular, police said Tuesday.*

"Three terrorists of the Jaish-e-Mohammad went from Karachi to Dhaka and to Kolkata and from there they came to Jammu Dec 20. On specific information, we arrested them from hotel Samrat in Jammu on Sunday," state Director General of Police Kuldeep Khoda said at a press conference here.

"*One of the three has been identified as Ghulam Farid alias Gulshan Kumar, a sepoy in 10 Azad Kashmir regiment of Pakistan Army. His service number is 4319184,"* Khoda said.

The police officer said that Farid joined Pakistan Army in 2001 and was detailed for terrorist activities in 2005. Hailing from Bhimber in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (***), Farid was associated with Harkat-ul-Jehad-Islami, a pan Islamic terrorist group, before joining the army, said Khoda.

He was arrested along with other terrorists, namely Mohammad Abdullah belonging to Pakistan's North West Frontier Province and Mohammed Imran, who hails from Dera Nawab in Bahawalpur.

Khoda said that the three were trained and indoctrinated in Pakistan to carry out terror attacks in the city like the strike in Mumbai Nov 26. He added that their plans to execute their deadly plan was delayed because of a delay in the arrival of their contact from the Kashmir Valley, who was to give them weapons. The Kashmiri contact was also to deliver them an explosive-laden vehicle.

Their contact could not come from the Valley due to the closure of Srinagar-Jammu national highway Sunday, the official said.

"These three had come to Jammu and they were to meet a guide, who was to come from the Kashmir Valley to Jammu and provide them weapons for specific targetting. We will know the target after interrogation," Khoda said.

He added that preliminary interrogations have revealed the three have received specialised training in suicide attacks and driving explosive-laden vehicles.

Khoda said that Mohammad Abdullah and Mohammad Imran had booked rooms in Samrat hotel Dec 21 under fake names of Akhilesh Prasad and Inder Prakash respectively. The official added that they were trained by Mufti Abdul Rauf, brother of JeM founder Masood Azhar.

Arrested in India on a false passport, Azhar was among the militants exchanged for passengers of an Indian Airlines flight that was hijacked to Kandahar in December 1999. Rauf had arranged for their fake passports and visa.

The three stayed in a hotel near the railway station when they reached Dec 20 and they shifted to Samrat hotel the next day on the instructions from their handlers, Khoda said. 

Manorama Online Home

My God, wht would had happen if they were successful in their mission..


----------



## was

Incredible India said:


> *Pak soldier among militants nabbed in Jammu *
> 
> Jammu: Three terrorists of the Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) hailing from Pakistan, who were planning a suicide attack in this winter capital of Jammu and Kashmir, have been arrested. *One of them is a Pakistani army regular, police said Tuesday.*
> 
> "Three terrorists of the Jaish-e-Mohammad went from Karachi to Dhaka and to Kolkata and from there they came to Jammu Dec 20. On specific information, we arrested them from hotel Samrat in Jammu on Sunday," state Director General of Police Kuldeep Khoda said at a press conference here.
> 
> "*One of the three has been identified as Ghulam Farid alias Gulshan Kumar, a sepoy in 10 Azad Kashmir regiment of Pakistan Army. His service number is 4319184,"* Khoda said.
> 
> The police officer said that Farid joined Pakistan Army in 2001 and was detailed for terrorist activities in 2005. Hailing from Bhimber in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (***), Farid was associated with Harkat-ul-Jehad-Islami, a pan Islamic terrorist group, before joining the army, said Khoda.
> 
> He was arrested along with other terrorists, namely Mohammad Abdullah belonging to Pakistan's North West Frontier Province and Mohammed Imran, who hails from Dera Nawab in Bahawalpur.
> 
> Khoda said that the three were trained and indoctrinated in Pakistan to carry out terror attacks in the city like the strike in Mumbai Nov 26. He added that their plans to execute their deadly plan was delayed because of a delay in the arrival of their contact from the Kashmir Valley, who was to give them weapons. The Kashmiri contact was also to deliver them an explosive-laden vehicle.
> 
> Their contact could not come from the Valley due to the closure of Srinagar-Jammu national highway Sunday, the official said.
> 
> "These three had come to Jammu and they were to meet a guide, who was to come from the Kashmir Valley to Jammu and provide them weapons for specific targetting. We will know the target after interrogation," Khoda said.
> 
> He added that preliminary interrogations have revealed the three have received specialised training in suicide attacks and driving explosive-laden vehicles.
> 
> Khoda said that Mohammad Abdullah and Mohammad Imran had booked rooms in Samrat hotel Dec 21 under fake names of Akhilesh Prasad and Inder Prakash respectively. The official added that they were trained by Mufti Abdul Rauf, brother of JeM founder Masood Azhar.
> 
> Arrested in India on a false passport, Azhar was among the militants exchanged for passengers of an Indian Airlines flight that was hijacked to Kandahar in December 1999. Rauf had arranged for their fake passports and visa.
> 
> The three stayed in a hotel near the railway station when they reached Dec 20 and they shifted to Samrat hotel the next day on the instructions from their handlers, Khoda said.
> 
> Manorama Online Home
> 
> My God, wht would had happen if they were successful in their mission..



here we go another drama by indians
they want show to the world that pak army is sending terrorists,when more more of there own armymen are bieng captured for terrorist activities
when these indian will fnish this and stop trying to impose their hagemony and let live in peace all it,s nieghbours


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## RedBaron

Let me try and get the discussion back to something more worthy of debate:
In the event of all-out hostilities, India could wage a "war of attrition" - with superior financial resources, it could prolong the war to the point where the Pak war machine literally runs out of fuel. Of course, India would also pay a huge cost, but Pakistan, due to its weaker economic condition, would probably go bankrupt sooner assuming it has smaller strategic fuel reserves. Does anyone know whether Pak has any guarantees from KSA/Iran/China with respect to war-time fuel? I mention fuel because recent price cuts notwithstanding, this probably is the largest variable cost component.


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## A.Rahman

Indian "cmohan" has been shot down.

and I "fixed" his post

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## AliFarooq

I think every mod should do what u did, lol that was way tooo funny


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## ejaz007

*India has not shared any evidence of attack: Interpol *
Updated at: 0545 PST, Wednesday, December 24, 2008 


NEW DELHI: Interpol chief General Ronald K Noble said in Islamabad on Tuesday that India had neither shared any evidence about the involvement of Pakistani nationals in the Mumbai attacks nor given any names to the agency. 

While it may surprise some, the fact remains that even approaching the France-based global agency in the past has been of little help for India. 

According to senior Indian police and security officials, it's neither mandatory nor a norm to share probe details with Interpol. "Whether or not to approach Interpol is entirely up to the country concerned. Even after the role of an accused is established and he is charge sheeted, there are other ways of nabbing him, like issuing a letter rogatory to the country where he might be hiding," a senior police officer said. 

CBI chief Ashwani Kumar said the agency had not shared any information with Interpol because it did not want to give half-baked findings to the international agency. "We did share some (basic) information with Interpol. But unless the investigation is complete, how can we share the full details?" he said. 

India has not shared any evidence of attack: Interpol


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## A.Rahman

AliFarooq said:


> I think every mod should do what u did, lol that was way tooo funny



may that be a lesson to members who want to bash Pakistan on Pakistani forum.


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## dr.rehan

RedBaron said:


> Let me try and get the discussion back to something more worthy of debate:
> In the event of all-out hostilities, India could wage a "war of attrition" - with superior financial resources, it could prolong the war to the point where the Pak war machine literally runs out of fuel. Of course, India would also pay a huge cost, but Pakistan, due to its weaker economic condition, would probably go bankrupt sooner assuming it has smaller strategic fuel reserves. Does anyone know whether Pak has any guarantees from KSA/Iran/China with respect to war-time fuel? I mention fuel because recent price cuts notwithstanding, this probably is the largest variable cost component.




How much fuel do you think Pakistan would need to launch 100 Missile with Warheads + a few with no warheads your way at the same time? Do you think Pakistan wont launch them, and that they are just for decorations? Its not in Indias best interest to launch a war against Pakistan. 71 senario was different. If we had a option such as Nuke's back then, do you really think you would have won?

You better pray that the "Button Pushers" on our side wait longer. I myself am a very trigger happy person. One alone like me can sink your nation to beyond stone-age...

India has sooo much more to lose on this war then Pakistan does. It seems as if you dont count the fact that we will inn fact throw anything possible from our country into your country. Loss in war is no longer a possible outcome of a war between Pakistan and India. 

The only possible outcome now is COMPLETE obliteration, annihilation, devastation and destruction if all Nukes are used. So what if 100 people stand tall left in the whole india, where all the others have been evaporated.. Do you think they would be celebrating a India victory???? 

You need to wake up and stay that way, and try to understand that you can NOT win any war with Pakistan, certainly not by military force, perhaps economy like US did to Russia after russias fall. It really does not matter what you have in your arsenal no more.

Now calculate how much fuel we really need for this, and please update us all.


----------



## skybolt

jarnee said:


> I agree with You Ahmed Bhai, please help us identify the Camps in India and we will work together with PAF, meanwhile lets together strike in Kashmir and other places in Pak territory.



OK Jarnee
u r rite..... for the above... but first lets strike together on the following organisations working in India...

LIST OF ORGANISATIONS IN INDIA DECLARED AS TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS UNDER THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT

*1. United Liberation Front of Assam ( ULFA )
2. National Democratic Front of Bodoland ( NDFB ) in Assam
3. People&#8217;s Liberation Army ( PLA )
4. United National Liberation Front ( UNLF )
5. People&#8217;s Revolutionary party of Kangleipak ( PREPAK )
6. Kangleipak Communist Party (KCP)
7. Kanglei Yaol Kanba Lup ( KYKL )
8. Manipur People&#8217;s Liberation Front ( MPLF )
9. Revolutionary People&#8217;s Front (RPF ) in Manipur
10. All Tripura Tiger Force (ATTF)
11. National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT ) in Tripura
12. Hynniewtrep National Liberation Council (HNLC)
13. Achik National Volunteer Council ( ANVC ) in Meghalaya
14. Babbar Khalsa International
15. Khalistan Commando Force
16. International Sikh Youth Federation
17. Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
18 Students Islamic Movement Of India
19. Deendar Anjuman
20. Communist Party of India (Marxist-Leninist)-People&#8217;s War, All Its Formations And Front rganisations
21. Maoist Communist Centre (MCC), All Its Formations And Front Organisations
22. Tamil Nadu Liberation Army (TNLA)
23. Tamil National Retrieval Troops (TNRT)
24. Akhil Bharat Nepali Ekta Samaj (ABNES)
25. Peoples Progressive Party (PPP)/Peoples Progressive Party Civic (PPP-C), All Its Formations And Front Organisations*


----------



## RedBaron

dr.rehan said:


> How much fuel do you think Pakistan would need to launch 100 Missile with Warheads your way? Do you think Pakistan wont launch them, and that they are just for decorations? Its not in Indias best interest to launch a war against Pakistan. 71 senario was different. If we had a option such as Nuke's back then, do you really think you would have won?
> 
> *You better pray that the "Button Pushers" on our side wait longer. I myself am a very trigger happy person. One alone like me can sink your country to beyond stone-age...*
> 
> India has sooo much more to lose on this war then Pakistan does. It seems as if you dont count the fact that we will innfact throw anything possible from our country into your country. Loss in war is nolonger a possible outcome of a war between Pakistan and India.
> 
> The only possible outcome now is COMPLETE obliteration, annihilation, devastation and destruction. So what if 100 people stand tall left in the whole india, where all the others have been evaporated.. Do you think they would be celebrating a India victory???? You ********* need to wake, and understand you can win no more war wages on Pakistan. It really does not matter what you have in your arsenal no more....
> 
> Now calculate how much fuel we really need, and please update us all.



Please, let's not get into the nuclear weapons disussion. It has been talked about elsewhere by people much smarter and more mature than yourself.
You claim that you alone can sink a country back to the stone age? 
I don't know what you're smoking, son. But for sure, you are in no position to debate anything right now.
I'll pass, thank you... and wait for someone more sober to respond to my post...


----------



## skybolt

*Dear Jarnee*






all the red marked areas are our targets...... let&#8217;s have a combine strike ...


----------



## dr.rehan

RedBaron said:


> Please, let's not get into the nuclear weapons disussion. It has been talked about elsewhere by people much smarter and more mature than yourself.
> You claim that you alone can sink ANY country back to the stone age? I don't know what you're smoking, but obviously you are in no position to debate anything right now.
> I'll pass and wait for someone more sober to respond to my post thank you.




Mr. RED - BABOON

I am the doc here, so lets leave out the smoking stuff talk okay.. If you dont accept the reality of the PAK NUKE factor, then your the one actually that has been SMOKING and need to sober up, and come back to this board at a later time....So stop reading and be back when you sober up..

Okay..
Now that you sobered up, Answer me properly you indian f*** , How much fuel does Pakistan need to put an end to any war started by india, by launching 100 Missile with warheads? ( You say you have had enough of NUKE talk you Bhindu. And what if i have had enough of this stupid little BS issue you raised to get some attention on this board about fuel.)

And why dont you count Pakistani NUKES in a war senario? Do you really think you can win with 100 NUKES up your ars...? (bla.bla.bhindu.talk....lets not talk about this coz it has been debated before coz i get sooo scared of Pak Nukes!, so i rather not debate the subject..!! I was answering you properly you low life, low cast, cow piss drinker.. And i painted an exact picture for you, on how much fuel My country really needs to kick your butt)....DO YOU COMPREHEND:.........? 

The only time you will see me Smoking and high, is when you will see formations of 100 Mushroom clouds developed over India. That's when i will be flying over that area and inhaling the smoke, even if it kills me... Smoking kills, you know...  

And what qualifies you to determine if i can have this little nuke chat on this board or not.

This is a PAKISTANI Board. I am PAKISTANI... I will discuss anything in the best interest for My NATION on this board. Now go and set the tone on an indian board. 

On DEFENCE.PK, you better be as nice as those Bhindus that got ruled by us for 1000 years... Do not take our hospitality for our weakness. And always remember the history on what a minority of Muslims did to a Majority Of Bhindus for 1000 years..

And anytime you ever wanna ask this question again on how much fuel we really need, please feel free to look up this and the earlier post, or PM me you CPD..


----------



## cmohan_02

skybolt said:


> all the red marked areas are our targets...... lets have a combine strike ...



Dear Skybolt,

Pardon my ignorance, please let me know what those naxals or terrorists living in red marked areas of India did to Pakistan, that you want to bomb them.

Thank you for your reply.


----------



## dr.rehan

cmohan_02 said:


> Dear Skybolt,
> 
> Pardon my ignorance, please let me know what those naxals or terrorists living in red marked areas of India did to Pakistan, that you want to bomb them.
> 
> Thank you for your reply.



Some of them came to Pakistan to stirr trouble. All were killed, and one was left to tell after a **** load of beating that he was an indian Terrorist...

Later ISI found a few satellite phone on some of these dead indian terrorists, with calls tracked back to India.. Thats our proof. Thats why we want to take out those red marked areas. I hope you believe in these "facts"... Now go back and read up again on the real story why we would like to take out those red areas you CPD.

Your welcome..


----------



## Kharian_Beast

cmohan_02 said:


> Dear Skybolt,
> 
> Pardon my ignorance, please let me know what those naxals or terrorists living in red marked areas of India did to Pakistan, that you want to bomb them.
> 
> Thank you for your reply.



Should we initiate a false flag within Pakistan and blame it on them? After that should we demand their handover without any proof? Should we run to the UN to ban RSS or Maoist charities and organizations without any proof? Actually, we aren't that disgraceful on this side. 

Karma...what goes around shall come around.


----------



## Hayreddin

cmohan_02 said:


> Dear Skybolt,
> 
> Pardon my ignorance, please let me know what those naxals or terrorists living in red marked areas of India did to Pakistan, that you want to bomb them.
> 
> Thank you for your reply.


1: i want to remind u that you have started that flame of on this forum by saying that surgical attack on PAKISTAN is in its own favor ,so you got the replies which were tit for tat by saying that then PAF have to do surgical strikes inside INDIA ,

2: IF YOU have any point you have to prove it logically ....
3:THIS forum is for everyone ,its not to degrade anyone .....
4:Every country has sovereinghty ,If in PAKISTAN have some terrorist than we will deal it by our selves ,we dont want dictation from INDIAN side or anyone else same if in INDIA have extremist its your headache to deal with ,this RULE IS same for all sovereign countries .
5: IF MR CMOHAN ,if you say some wrong and illogical words for any country ,you have listen the same for your country ...
6:If i come in your any indian forum start abusing you people than i will get the same treatment that YOU have got here ............


----------



## Patriot

BEIJING: China has asked India to maintain calm as Mumbai attacks mastermind is yet to be identified.

"We hope to see the improvement of Indian-Pakistani relations," Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang told a regular press conference responding to questions on the South Asia situation in the aftermath of the November 26 terrorist attacks in Mumbai.

Qin said that the identity of the mastermind of the Mumbai attacks "awaited further investigation by concerned countries," indicating that Beijing was still unsure about New Delhi's assertion that all the 10 attackers were Pakistanis.

He called on India and Pakistan to "work together through peaceful consultations to investigate the cause of the attacks and combat terrorism," the agency reported.

"We hope the region will maintain its peace and stability," Qin said.

He said the improvement and development of the relationship between India and Pakistan, both important nations in South Asia, would help regional peace and stability.

China would, as always, support efforts by both countries to improve bilateral relations and safeguard regional peace, Qin said.

He noted that China had strongly denounced the Mumbai attacks.

"We agree that the international community should cooperate to fight terrorism," Qin said.


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## Imran Khan

sorry saad bro i post this thread alreadymorning.


----------



## zavis2003

Ask Mrs. Karkare: Was It Lashker or 'BJP'? 

The timing of Mumbai terror is well planned, just before state elections! So who will reap the benefit? Lashkar-e-Taiba or BJP? If ISI did it, then they must be stupid. And they are not. 

By NAEED-UD-DIN KHALID 
Thursday, 11 December 2008. 
Ahmed Quraishi-Pakistan/Middle East politics, Iraq war, lebanon war, India Pakistan relations 

ISLAMABAD, PakistanIf the Americas lapdogs in the Pakistani government had any brains, they would have demanded that Mrs. Hemant Karkare, the wife of the Indian antiterrorism chief killed in the very first hours of Mumbai attack be allowed to speak up. Also, a retired Indian army officer, a close friend was told by Karkare in writing a few hours before he was killed that his life was under threat by Hindu terrorists and their handlers in the Indian military intelligence. Both Mr. Karkare and the secret letter written by her husband have been suppressed. 

Also consider: 



Unlike other terrorists in similar situations, the terrorists in Mumbai did not demand anything. They didnt even demand the release of their supposedly jailed colleagues or ask for money. Why? What was their target then? 

Unlike other so-called Islamic jehadis with beards and turbans, the Mumbai terrorists came with strange looks, wearing jeans and T-shirts, clean-shaven, no turbans nor any sign of Muslims terrorists. 



Mumbais Pakistani terrorists were a funny brand of Muslim terrorists: beer guzzling terrorists. True to the fancy world of Indian movies, Mumbais Jehadis go to a bar and stock up on beer before they launch their crusade. 



Mumbai terrorists (as shown by media) had close similarities with RSS cadres: The alleged lone survivor happens to be the same guy whose pictures were conveniently captured by Indian photographers and as he walked to make his kill, intriguingly wearing a yellow band on his right hand wrist in the typical style of Hindu terrorist RSS cadres. 



Mumbai terrorists immediately find their targets by killing ATS leaders [Hemant Karakare, CP Ashok Kamthe & Vijay Salskar) in the first 15 minutes of the attacks. Karakare was wearing a bullet proof jacket. He was fired right on his neck! He was in a crowded place, so it was not easy to find and identify him. How they got so much information? Why they targeted him? How and why they so specific the clearly chose ATS leaders? And the terrorists immediately ran away? Making Karkares murder a puzzle that cant be solved? ATS was investigating BJP involvement in terrorism, Colonel Prohait , Samjhoota Express Blasts, etc. [See http://www.ocnus. net/artman2/ publish/Defence_ Arms_13/India_ Hindu_Supremacis t_Terror_ Network.shtml 
http://www.sahilnew s.org/english/ news.php? catID=voice&nid=4133&viewed=0] 



When Indian soldiers deliberately gorged out the eyes and defaced every one of the terrorists, how come one was caught alive, and that too the one who was  conveniently  photographed by some unknown Indian photographer? 



The precision and swiftness of the terrorist action in Mumbai leaves no doubt the perpetrators were not outsiders. There is no way anyone can hold a huge city like Mumbai hostage for three days without knowing the city and the Indian security system inside out. 



Prime Minister, Sonia & L.K. Advani visit Mumbai, but no clues or no claims about ISI or Pakistan. However, the Number One Indian Terrorist, Gujarat Chief Minister Narinder Modi rushes to Mumbai and declares that Pakistan is behind the attack without any doubt! Note: no other Indian chief ministers travel to Mumbai. Modi, the killer of 2,500 Indian Muslim women and children in 2002, offered rewards to every military man killed to the tune of several million Indian rupees, which is something that didnt occur to either the Indian government or the opposition. 

Media was widely reporting that there were IDs of terrorists recovered that show Malaysian and Mauritius IDs. However, such references disappear after Modi's arrival. 

The timing of Mumbai terror is well planned, just before state elections! (So who will reap the benefit? lashkar-e-taiba or BJP?) The timing of Mumbai terror is well planned, just before state elections! So who will reap the benefit? Lashkar-e-Taiba or BJP? If ISI did it, then they must be stupid. And they are not. 



We are told the terrorists came from Pakistan by sea. Was the Indian navy asleep? We are told they came by speed boats. Is it possible to travel such a long distance on such boats? I dont know. 

It took hundreds of Indian soldiers 60 hours to stop the terrorists. Is the Indian army and commandos a bunch of circus clowns? 



Karkare's wife declined 'Modi's compensation offer. It was her sown special way of identifying the real perpetrators. See http://www.expressi ndia.com/ latest-news/ Karkares- wife-declines- Modis-compensati on-offer/ 392207/


----------



## must7

Not only that .. they were clean shaved, looking very fresh, knowing the ins & outs of Mumbai streets, knew about the doors which were not guarded of the important hotel (through kitchen doors), also were able to hijack a police van with minimal fuss & if that all was not enough ..

We have 2 photos of the terrorist Ajmal Kasab with watch in the left hand & thread / band in the right, while in the next picture it is on the opposite ! (guys at PDF is having the pic) ..

So many anamolies but still India does not want to share or do joint investigation ! Any reason why ?


----------



## Neo

*India yet to share evidence: Interpol​*
** Agency chief says information given to media should be shared if accurate
* Says Pakistan most proactive associate of Interpol​*
ISLAMABAD: India has neither shared information about the Mumbai terrorist attacks with the Interpol so far nor asked the agency for assistance in the ongoing probe, Interpol Secretary General Ronald K Noble said on Tuesday.

He was addressing a news conference after a meeting with Interior Adviser Rehman Malik in Islamabad.

The information Interpol has is the same information that you have. Its information that weve read in journals, that weve read on the Internet or that weve seen on TV, he said. We cant enter newspaper information in our police databases, we can only enter information that we receive from police authorities.

He expressed satisfaction over the measures taken by Pakistan following Mumbai attacks, adding no other country had co-operated more with the Interpol than Pakistan. Pakistan is the most proactive associate of Interpol.

Rehman Malik said Pakistan was prepared to co-operate with India but they have to bring us credible evidence.

The interior adviser said National Database and Registration Authority records do not include a citizen named Ajmal Kasab. A letter from the man to Pakistan has been handed over to legal experts for thorough examination and details in this regard will be issued by today or tomorrow, Malik said.

During the meeting, Pakistani authorities considered Interpols offer to install by 2009 a system known as MIND/FIND, which enables immigration officials to carry out direct screening of passports and identity documents on a real-time basis against Interpols global database of more than 16 million stolen and lost travel documents.


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## roadrunner

must7 said:


> We have 2 photos of the terrorist Ajmal Kasab with watch in the left hand & thread / band in the right, while in the next picture it is on the opposite ! (guys at PDF is having the pic) ..



That's disinformation spread by the Indians to make you look stupid. 

The Kalava was worn on his right hand in both pictures. 

The released images showed that clearly, and they're still easily found. 

It's not hard to manipulate as images of Aishwarya Rai's eyes attest to.


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## roadrunner

You need to be able to sift through the misinformation. 

Some of it is spread by Pakistanis for some silly reason. Are they on India's payroll, Altaf Hussain like, or something? 

The lawyer/Nepal argument was very unecessary imo. There is good evidence that this is a false flag along the lines of the Sarghota Express without any relation to Nepal. 

Stick with the facts. 

Kalava
Hindi-speaking 
no evidence has been given. 
India has a history of blaming Pakistan for false flag operations
No Qasab in NRDA or on the electoral roll

Moreover, who does it benefit? Definitely not Pakistan. Jihadi groups neither, they are being reigned in. Benefit to India, definitely. Karkare's killing, benefit to Hindu BJP. 

This is enough evidence to suggest something is fishy about the whole thing.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ahmeddsid

Denial Mode is not always the best remedy


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## ahmeddsid

Nawas Sharif said Kasab is from Pakistan and the GOP is wrong in cordoning off his village!!!!


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## Lockheed F-16

ahmeddsid said:


> Nawas Sharif said Kasab is from Pakistan and the GOP is wrong in cordoning off his village!!!!


Hmm you are indian so you should know that Nawaz sahib is doing that for himself! Like your Sonia Ghandu made pathetic statements about Pakistan. 

That's politics and Election Tactic


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## Pk_Thunder

*Mumbai attacks mastermind yet to identify: China​*
Updated at: 1135 PST, Wednesday, December 24, 2008




Mumbai attacks mastermind yet to identify: China BEIJING: China has asked India to maintain calm as Mumbai attacks mastermind is yet to be identified.

"We hope to see the improvement of Indian-Pakistani relations," Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang told a regular press conference responding to questions on the South Asia situation in the aftermath of the November 26 terrorist attacks in Mumbai.

Qin said that the identity of the mastermind of the Mumbai attacks "awaited further investigation by concerned countries," indicating that Beijing was still unsure about New Delhi's assertion that all the 10 attackers were Pakistanis.

He called on India and Pakistan to "work together through peaceful consultations to investigate the cause of the attacks and combat terrorism," the agency reported.

"We hope the region will maintain its peace and stability," Qin said.

He said the improvement and development of the relationship between India and Pakistan, both important nations in South Asia, would help regional peace and stability.

China would, as always, support efforts by both countries to improve bilateral relations and safeguard regional peace, Qin said.

He noted that China had strongly denounced the Mumbai attacks.

"We agree that the international community should cooperate to fight terrorism," Qin said.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ahmeddsid

Lockheed F-16 said:


> Hmm you are indian so you should know that Nawaz sahib is doing that for himself! Like your Sonia Ghandu made pathetic statements about Pakistan.
> 
> That's politics and Election Tactic


If I am not Mistaken, what will Nawas gain by Supporting Indias Claim that Kasab is Pakistani? Until and Unless he plans to compete against Sonia Gandhi in Amethi or Bareily he gains nothing In Pakistan!!!!!! Come one, think about it. Nawas will not gain politically anything, In Pakistan atleast. Maybe he is thinking of coming over to India and like I said, and teaching Madam Sonia a thing or to about Politics!


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## Imran Khan

posted already i post morning boss.


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## Pk_Thunder

imran khan said:


> posted already i post morning boss.



But this seems better than the one u posted..it is with China flag...Sorry i didnt know tht it has been posted before


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## roadrunner

This has been discussed at length before?

Why do you Indians keep repeating the same lies? Do you think it will stick eventually? 

The Nawaz Sharif thing, even his party said that he did not say Qasab was Pakistani, he said why are things cordoned off. I think he's wrong even on that. Nothing was cordoned off, as every journalist had unrestricted access to Faridkot. But Nawaz Sharif did not say Qasab was a Pakistani. 

You're not presenting evidience. I can present hundreds of articles that say 3 million Bangladeshis died in 1971, but it's not true. That is journalism, sensationalize, sell papers. 

If your evidence is journals, you have no evidence. You're even using disproven articles. 

http://www.onlinenews.com.pk/details.php?id=137789 

Credibility loss 100&#37;!


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## makkipakistan

Zavis,

Teri makka ***** , know the news perfectly before speaking, dont motivate muslims to attack india. Pakistan is culprit


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## must7

makkipakistan said:


> Zavis,
> 
> Teri makka ***** , know the news perfectly before speaking, dont motivate muslims to attack india. Pakistan is culprit



Excuse me Sir, Can you tell that to the chief of Interpol !

& mind your language.


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## ahmeddsid

Fine, Nawas Retracted his words, or rather denied it!!! Great now he doesnt need to come to India and stand in Elections! lol, he can fight in Pakistan itself. And Please I know Journalism, I know what it means to be a Journalist. I have seen the scrupulous and unscrupulous Journalists. I know the distinction between truth and sensationalism! God Speed


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## Lockheed F-16

ahmeddsid said:


> Fine, Nawas Retracted his words, or rather denied it!!! Great now he doesnt need to come to India and stand in Elections! lol, he can fight in Pakistan itself. And Please I know Journalism, I know what it means to be a Journalist. I have seen the scrupulous and unscrupulous Journalists. I know the distinction between truth and sensationalism! God Speed



Really? Indian Journalism is really poor then


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## Pk_Thunder

*
India's media blasted for sensational Mumbai coverage*​
With tensions running high between India and Pakistan, the press is being urged to quit fanning the flames.
By Daniel Pepper | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

Mumbai, India - Emerging from decades of government control and regulations, India's media are quickly evolving into a boisterous, zealous fourth estate, most observers agree. But coverage of the 67-hour Mumbai (Bombay) terrorist attacks has caused unprecedented condemnation, especially toward 24-hour television news channels. Critics describe it as "TV terror" for showing gory scenes, being too aggressive, and often reporting incorrect information as fact.

"They don't need to apologize as much as they need to introspect  figure out how to operate in a time of crisis," says Dipankar Gupta, sociology professor at Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi.

On the evening of Nov. 26, well-coordinated attacks against two five-star hotels, a hospital, a popular cafe, a railway station, and a Jewish center brought the financial capital of India to its knees, leaving at least 171 dead and more than 230 injured.

In the following days, critics say, many Indian journalists were overly dramatic, sensationalist, and quick to report live "exclusives" of unconfirmed rumors. Many say TV anchors, who are minor celebrities in India, were overwrought with emotion and were quick to blame Pakistan for the attacks.

"It's high time we realize and accept that we are at fault," said Shishir Joshi, editorial director of Mid-Day, a Mumbai newspaper. "We did well getting into the line of fire, but from an ethical point of view we screwed up big-time."

Recognizing the missteps in coverage, the recently created National Broadcaster Association revealed a new set of rules for the industry last week. The guidelines ban broadcasting of footage that could reveal security operations and live contact with hostages or attackers.

The association, which represents many of the country's top news channels, hammered out the new regulations after several meetings with government officials. At the same time, India's Parliament is considering the creation of a broadcasting regulatory agency for private news channels.

Meanwhile, the story continues to develop, as tensions run high and add urgency to calls for media regulation. On Monday, India's Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherje insisted that Pakistan take aggressive action against those responsible for the Mumbai attacks. The Indian government is ready to "take all measures necessary as we deem fit to deal with the situation," Mr. Mukherje told a group of diplomats in Delhi.

For several weeks, India has been asking Pakistan to hand over insurgents involved with militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which is suspected of masterminding the attacks. Pakistan has yet to confirm that the surviving gunman of the Mumbai attacks is Pakistani, despite reports Monday that Ajmal Amir Kasab made a statement, sent to Pakistan officials, claiming to be from Pakistan.

Television coverage of the attacks showed dead bodies and hostages trapped in rooms, revealed commando operations and positions, and reported the location of hostages at the Taj Mahal Hotel. Senior news editors are accused of playing martial music between updates and providing airtime to Bollywood actors and other members of Mumbai's chatterati. One station even aired a telephone conversation with one of the 10 gunmen.

"One of the ill effects of unrestrained coverage is that of provoking anger amongst the masses," said K.G. Balakrishnan, the chief justice of the Supreme Court of India, during a recent conference on terrorism in New Delhi.

The relatively young medium of 24-hour television news received the lion's share of criticism. "There are people on television channels who are not even familiar with the basics of coverage," says Pankaj Vohra, political editor of the Hindustan Times in New Delhi. "I think it needs to evolve itself and it will become mature as time passes."

The most maligned journalist has been Barkha Dutt, the young news talk-show host of New Delhi television. The Facebook group, "Barkha Dutt for worst journalist in the world," has attracted nearly 1,500 members since its creation following the attacks. The site accuses her of being melodramatic, arrogant, and insensitive to relatives of victims.

Ms. Dutt and other television journalists have also been criticized for focusing on the sieges at the Taj and Oberoi hotels  domains of the country's wealthy and ruling elite  while largely ignoring the train station that was littered with the bodies of migrant workers. Fifty-eight people were gunned down there.

Dutt says she finds much of the criticism to be "incorrect and mean-spirited," but concedes that there is a lesson to be learned. "If there is even a shadow of doubt of security being compromised, the industry should be willing to delay-telecast so that we can once and for all end this argument," she says.

Regulating the industry could be a joint effort between the media and government, according to critics who say the government should also share some of the fault for the sensational coverage: Journalists did not have access to secure sites and very little official information was offered.

"A media crackdown is not the answer  self-regulated media is at the core of Indian democracy," says Arnab Goswami, editor-in-chief of Times Now television channel. "This incident should highlight the need for government and media to work together."

The media has criticized both local and federal government for failing to set up fixed police lines around hostage sites and for not providing regular press briefings.

"The [media] beast has got to be constantly fed. The information flow from government sources was terrible," said Rajdeep Sardesai, editor-in-chief of the CNN-IBN news channel.

Around Nariman House, the center for Jewish life located in a neighborhood of small, labyrinthine streets, a member of India's elite antiterrorism squad brandishing a pistol chased a dozen reporters from the roof of a building opposite the siege, from where they had been perched for 36 hours. The journalists then ran across a narrow alley into an adjacent building to angle for a better position.

"In most places the police need to be trained at crowd management. Nobody expected this kind of attack, this magnitude of the attack," says Mr. Vohra of the Hindustan Times newspaper.

India's media played a prominent role in its independence movement, and for years journalism held a respected position in society.

"It's fine to say that the media overreacted and that it has become jingoistic and nationalistic. The question is why has it become like that," says Ajit Sahi, an editor at Tehelka magazine, India's leading investigative weekly. He argues that the profit motive of the corporate media houses has forced journalists out of unions by offering them twice or three times what they previously earned, though their employment is now governed by contracts that can be terminated at any time. The problem, argues Mr. Sahi, is that the current model guarantees journalists no protection, even if they object to a story being manipulated or sensationalized.

That's the accusation levied by one of India's most famous film directors, Mahesh Bhatt, against CNN-IBN's Mr. Sardesai, one of India's most prominent TV anchors. Bhatt went a step further and charged that Sardesai and his channel encroached on Bhatt's turf  fiction  after the channel played Bollywood theme songs from movies about wars between India and Pakistan during news updates.

"It's what we do in the movies  whipping up passion  and what was at stake, but a nuclear holocaust?" argues Bhatt, referring to the nuclear weapons capabilities of both South Asian countries. "You use the same tools  you keep the audience on a continuous high."


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## must7

*Some of it is spread by Pakistanis for some silly reason. Are they on India's payroll, Altaf Hussain like, or something? *

Roadrunner : What about this :-

Kasab Pics - Pakistani Defence Forum


----------



## Pashtun

The plot of Bernard Lewis' Arc of Crises, and his (re-drawn middle east/central asian map) thickens with the time passes.

To understand the drama, you must understand the events (unless you don't want to get your hands off that microscope labeled as Islamophobia).

So LeT, which was solely blamed for these attacks, right off the bat, is propogandised as multi-national entity and their connection to every event in the world has been mildly spoken by the same three Anglo-American-Israelites, who happen to have that crystal ball somehow.

Skipping the details about how LeT has been created, funded, supported and trained by Anglo-Americans through their regional assets. In 2002, the Washington Post ran a story detailing a CIA plan titled "Worldwide Attack Matrix" by George Tenet, which was "outlining a clandestine anti-terror campaign in 80 countries around the world.".

The plan entailed CIA and Special Forces "covert operations across the globe," and at "the heart of the proposal was a recommendation that the president give the CIA what Tenet labeled "exceptional authorities" to attack and destroy al Qaeda in Afghanistan and the rest of the world."

The Worldwide Attack Matrix "described covert operations in 80 countries that were either underway or that he was now recommending. The actions ranged from routine propaganda to lethal covert action in preparation for military attacks," as well as "In some countries, CIA teams would break into facilities to obtain information.[1]

That clarifies the heinous goals of nexus of Evil operational behaviour -> *"Commit terror, to incite terror in order to react to Terror".*

So the international connections make the LeT the most desirable outfit to blame for the Mumbai attacks, as its Al-Qaeda connections, international presence and historical precedents of terror attacks set it up as the perfect target.

*Much like with Al-Qaeda, the LeTs international scope could serve as a basis for taking a "war against LeT" to the steps of many countries, thus further serving the interests of the Anglo-American "War on Terror."*

Now lets look at the mysterious events taking place in Mumbai attacks, 

Immediately following the attacks, it was reported that, "Unprecedented intelligence cooperation involving investigating agencies and spy outfits of India, United States, United Kingdom and Israel has got underway to crack the method and motive behind the Mumbai terrorist massacre, now widely blamed on Islamist radicals who appeared to have all four countries on their hit list when they arrived on the shores of India." Specifically, "Investigators, forensic analysts, counter-terrorism experts and spymasters from agencies the four countries are converging in New Delhi and Mumbai to put their heads, resources, and skills together to understand the evolving nature of the beast."

Further, "Washington suggested sending US Special Forces for on-the-ground operations in Mumbai but New Delhi declined the offer, saying its own forces could take care of the situation." This unprecedented intelligence cooperation was based upon the understanding that, the manner in which the terrorists who attacked Mumbai are reported to have singled out Americans and Britons, besides pointedly occupying a Jewish center, has revealed that their agenda was wider than just domestic discontent or the Kashmir issue."[2] 

Shortly after the attacks began, it was reported that FBI agents were quickly flown to Mumbai to help in investigating the Mumbai attacks. Israel also offered to send in its "crack commandos to Mumbai to rescue Israeli hostages held in a Jewish centre," which was refused by India.

Now why would they'd be so anxious to get involved in investigations? to clean up any evidence of their involvement? or to forge any evidence of directing the blame to their intended target?

Moving on to mysterious live reporting throughout that saga... Hours after the attacks began on November 26, it was reported that two terrorists were killed and two others were arrested.[3]

Later on, reports surfaced in which Indian police had killed four of the Mumbai terrorists and arrested nine of them.[4]

Shortly following the outbreak of violence, Indian authorities stated that, "Seven of the Mumbai terrorists were British" and that, "two Brits had been arrested and another five suspects were from the UK." Further, Blackberry phones found on the suspects contained "a lot of content" connecting them with the UK.[5]

The Chief Minister of Mumbai had early on reported that, two British-born Pakistanis were among eight gunmen seized by Indian commandos who stormed buildings to free hostages."[6]

On December 1, the Daily Mail reported that, As many as seven of the terrorists may have British connections.

*Interestingly, by November 29, the story had conveniently changed. All of a sudden, Mumbai cops had only "captured" one terrorist. *

So where did the arrested "terrorists" go? Why the live media reports, police confirming they captured "terrorists" and making claims they are British and all, changed?

Early on, there was an incident in which a taxicab was blown up in Mumbai, with the driver and passenger killed. The taxi started moving through a red light when the car bomb exploded, which ended up saving the lives of hundreds, as opposed to if the car had moved when the light was green and intersection was full.

Why the taxi moved on red light on time to be exploded to save hundreds of lives? was taxi driver also involved? if he was, then why it didn't go to intended target and exploded in the middle?

So as mentioned, all of a sudden, Mumbai cops had only nabbed one 'terrorist', and that person, has effectively become the nail-in-the-coffin for laying the blame at Pakistans door.

As soon as this person was caught, he began to sing like a canary, and gave every single bit of a information, exceptionally needed in that poorly written bollywood script, that is eventually to spread the war on terrorism to those 80 countries planned out in World Attack Matrix, by creating another enemy LeT.

And these attackers, as report said, were highly trained in marine warfare, recoinnaicense, spying and formulating their attacks in an unknown location right off the boat (which they happened to better than the people owning and running the place) and all that while carrying Pakistani ID cards on them, to make sure when caught/killed, the rest of the world knows they came from Pakistan and belongs to LeT.

What objective in this do you see? who gets the benefit? to think about these questions, you must go back to CIA/MI6/Mossad's approach "Commit terror, to incite terror in order to react to terror", and then answer.

Why is this significant? Because this closely resembles tactics used in Iraq since the Anglo-American occupation of the country, employed by both US and British intelligence and special forces in an effort to sow chaos and create civil strife and war. (You can easily research on how they did that).

So in light of this blame game and irchestrating the evidence, one must critically examine, who benefits? Who had the means? Who had to motive? In whose interest is it to destabilize the region? 

It is crystal clear to me that ultimately picking LeT for its international scope could serve as a basis for taking a "war against LeT" to the steps of many countries, thus further serving the interests of the Anglo-American War on Terror and their ultimate goal of re-drawing the map of middle east and central asia.

Extending the war theater to Pakistan, defanging its military, a threat to Israel.

Hence the modus operandy of focus entirely based on Pakistan (regardless of state or stateless individuals) to label the country "axis of terrorism" and find a justification to bomb and balkanize it (which will favour Israel and India the most). In fact the break up of Pakistan, is not a far-fetched idea in terms of Anglo-American strategy.

the plan for the destabilization and ultimately, balkanization of Pakistan has originated in Anglo-American-Israeli military strategic circles. Britain has long been famous for Divide and COnquer strategy, which was inherited by U.S. and it kept on functioning in the case of Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Croatia, Africa, Middle East etc.

Ultimately, the aims of the Mumbai attacks are to target Pakistan for balkanization, in the next frame of that movie, we all are watching since few decades, called New World Order.

The Mumbai attacks do not aid India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, or any nation within the region. The beneficiaries of the Mumbai Massacre are in London and New York, in the boardrooms and shareholders of the largest international banks; which seek total control of the world. Having dominated North America and Europe for much of recent history, these bankers, primarily Anglo-American, but also European, seek to exert their total control over the worlds resources, currencies, and populations. 

*References:*
[1]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/18/AR2006071800702.html

[2]http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/India_gets_intelligence_aid_from_US_UK/articleshow/3770950.cms

[3]http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world-news/two-terrorists-killed-two-arrested-in-mumbai_100124003.html

[4]http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Four-terrorists-killed-nine-arrested/391103/

[5]http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2008/11/29/mumbai-attacks-seven-terrorists-were-british-claims-indian-government-86908-20932992/

[6]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/3533472/Mumbai-attack-British-men-among-terrorists.html

Reactions: Like Like:
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## must7

*And these attackers, as report said, were highly trained in marine warfare, recoinnaicense, spying and formulating their attacks in an unknown location right off the boat (which they happened to better than the people owning and running the place) and all that while carrying Pakistani ID cards on them, to make sure when caught/killed, the rest of the world knows they came from Pakistan and belongs to LeT.*

Very well written indeed ... 

However wanted to add that first the pictures came out with smiling faces, we pointed out that the background of NICOP (Pakistani computerized ID which every Pakistani holds) card was wrong .. 

In another twist the cards came out to be later on Indian forged driving licenses !

Up to now I have not seen a Pakistani NICOP card of any terrorist .. & mind you it took a good very 10 days to see the remaining 8 terrorist faces (1 was burnt beyond recognition) !


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## roadrunner

must7 said:


> *Some of it is spread by Pakistanis for some silly reason. Are they on India's payroll, Altaf Hussain like, or something? *
> 
> Roadrunner : What about this :-
> 
> Kasab Pics - Pakistani Defence Forum



Ask yourself why the Indians are photoshopping pictures so that the Kalava appears on his left hand. 

This is all misinformation. 

The Kalava was on the right hand in both the pictures released immediately after the attacks. 

Whoever plotted this, didn't figure that CCTV camera. 

Now they're trying to make it look like the Kalava is a fake. 

It's misinformation.


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## Kumar

Everyday drones are killing civilians in your country 

its new..

Suspected U.S. Strikes Kill Eight in Pakistan

washingtonpost.com

India is not going to attack Pakistan alone... soon like what drones are doing right now on one side it will start on another side also ..and then you will people will ask for more proof....


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## must7

Roadrunner .. no wonder we are saying for a joint investigation, to know truth & not media bulls ,, .. paddling , not paddling, hotels are free, but are not, one more to go and than another one to go .. etc. etc ..

Joint investigation is the way forward.

Tomorrow we will catch a panic stricken Indian too and roast him to confess anything ! 

Joint investigation.


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## roadrunner

I doubt India will agree to a oint investigation because they have something to hide. 

The other board made some valid points too. The CCTV caught this terrorist only on picture, miraculously the same terrorist was the only one taken alive.


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## rubyjackass

One more terrorist was caught on cameras.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/245191-post564.html


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## ARSENAL6

Bismillah ir-rah-maan neera heem



Pashtun said:


> The plot of Bernard Lewis' Arc of Crises, and his (re-drawn middle east/central asian map) thickens with the time passes.
> 
> To understand the drama, you must understand the events (unless you don't want to get your hands off that microscope labeled as Islamophobia).
> 
> So LeT, which was solely blamed for these attacks, right off the bat, is propogandised as multi-national entity and their connection to every event in the world has been mildly spoken by the same three Anglo-American-Israelites, who happen to have that crystal ball somehow.
> 
> Skipping the details about how LeT has been created, funded, supported and trained by Anglo-Americans through their regional assets. In 2002, the Washington Post ran a story detailing a CIA plan titled "Worldwide Attack Matrix" by George Tenet, which was "outlining a clandestine anti-terror campaign in 80 countries around the world.".
> 
> The plan entailed CIA and Special Forces "covert operations across the globe," and at "the heart of the proposal was a recommendation that the president give the CIA what Tenet labeled "exceptional authorities" to attack and destroy al Qaeda in Afghanistan and the rest of the world."
> 
> The Worldwide Attack Matrix "described covert operations in 80 countries that were either underway or that he was now recommending. The actions ranged from routine propaganda to lethal covert action in preparation for military attacks," as well as "In some countries, CIA teams would break into facilities to obtain information.[1]
> 
> That clarifies the heinous goals of nexus of Evil operational behaviour -> *"Commit terror, to incite terror&#8230; in order to react to Terror".*
> 
> So the international connections make the LeT the most desirable outfit to blame for the Mumbai attacks, as its Al-Qaeda connections, international presence and historical precedents of terror attacks set it up as the perfect target.
> 
> *Much like with Al-Qaeda, the LeT&#8217;s international scope could serve as a basis for taking a "war against LeT" to the steps of many countries, thus further serving the interests of the Anglo-American "War on Terror."*
> 
> Now lets look at the mysterious events taking place in Mumbai attacks,
> 
> Immediately following the attacks, it was reported that, "Unprecedented intelligence cooperation involving investigating agencies and spy outfits of India, United States, United Kingdom and Israel has got underway to crack the method and motive behind the Mumbai terrorist massacre, now widely blamed on Islamist radicals who appeared to have all four countries on their hit list when they arrived on the shores of India." Specifically, "Investigators, forensic analysts, counter-terrorism experts and spymasters from agencies the four countries are converging in New Delhi and Mumbai to put their heads, resources, and skills together to understand the evolving nature of the beast."
> 
> Further, "Washington suggested sending US Special Forces for on-the-ground operations in Mumbai but New Delhi declined the offer, saying its own forces could take care of the situation." This unprecedented intelligence cooperation was based upon the understanding that, &#8220;the manner in which the terrorists who attacked Mumbai are reported to have singled out Americans and Britons, besides pointedly occupying a Jewish center, has revealed that their agenda was wider than just domestic discontent or the Kashmir issue."[2]
> 
> Shortly after the attacks began, it was reported that FBI agents were quickly flown to Mumbai to help in investigating the Mumbai attacks. Israel also offered to send in its "crack commandos to Mumbai to rescue Israeli hostages held in a Jewish centre," which was refused by India.
> 
> Now why would they'd be so anxious to get involved in investigations? to clean up any evidence of their involvement? or to forge any evidence of directing the blame to their intended target?
> 
> Moving on to mysterious live reporting throughout that saga... Hours after the attacks began on November 26, it was reported that two terrorists were killed and two others were arrested.[3]
> 
> Later on, reports surfaced in which Indian police had killed four of the Mumbai terrorists and arrested nine of them.[4]
> 
> Shortly following the outbreak of violence, Indian authorities stated that, "Seven of the Mumbai terrorists were British" and that, "two Brits had been arrested and another five suspects were from the UK." Further, Blackberry phones found on the suspects contained "a lot of content" connecting them with the UK.[5]
> 
> The Chief Minister of Mumbai had early on reported that, &#8220;two British-born Pakistanis were among eight gunmen seized by Indian commandos who stormed buildings to free hostages."[6]
> 
> On December 1, the Daily Mail reported that, &#8220;As many as seven of the terrorists may have British connections.
> 
> *Interestingly, by November 29, the story had conveniently changed. All of a sudden, Mumbai cops had only "captured" one terrorist. *
> 
> So where did the arrested "terrorists" go? Why the live media reports, police confirming they captured "terrorists" and making claims they are British and all, changed?
> 
> Early on, there was an incident in which a taxicab was blown up in Mumbai, with the driver and passenger killed. The taxi started moving through a red light when the car bomb exploded, which ended up saving the lives of hundreds, as opposed to if the car had moved when the light was green and intersection was full.
> 
> Why the taxi moved on red light on time to be exploded to save hundreds of lives? was taxi driver also involved? if he was, then why it didn't go to intended target and exploded in the middle?
> 
> So as mentioned, all of a sudden, Mumbai cops had only nabbed one 'terrorist', and that person, has effectively become the nail-in-the-coffin for laying the blame at Pakistan&#8217;s door.
> 
> As soon as this person was caught, he began to sing like a canary, and gave every single bit of a information, exceptionally needed in that poorly written bollywood script, that is eventually to spread the war on terrorism to those 80 countries planned out in World Attack Matrix, by creating another enemy LeT.
> 
> And these attackers, as report said, were highly trained in marine warfare, recoinnaicense, spying and formulating their attacks in an unknown location right off the boat (which they happened to better than the people owning and running the place) and all that while carrying Pakistani ID cards on them, to make sure when caught/killed, the rest of the world knows they came from Pakistan and belongs to LeT.
> 
> What objective in this do you see? who gets the benefit? to think about these questions, you must go back to CIA/MI6/Mossad's approach "Commit terror, to incite terror&#8230; in order to react to terror", and then answer.
> 
> Why is this significant? Because this closely resembles tactics used in Iraq since the Anglo-American occupation of the country, employed by both US and British intelligence and special forces in an effort to sow chaos and create civil strife and war. (You can easily research on how they did that).
> 
> So in light of this blame game and irchestrating the evidence, one must critically examine, who benefits? Who had the means? Who had to motive? In whose interest is it to destabilize the region?
> 
> It is crystal clear to me that ultimately picking LeT for its international scope could serve as a basis for taking a "war against LeT" to the steps of many countries, thus further serving the interests of the Anglo-American War on Terror and their ultimate goal of re-drawing the map of middle east and central asia.
> 
> Extending the war theater to Pakistan, defanging its military, a threat to Israel.
> 
> Hence the modus operandy of focus entirely based on Pakistan (regardless of state or stateless individuals) to label the country "axis of terrorism" and find a justification to bomb and balkanize it (which will favour Israel and India the most). In fact the break up of Pakistan, is not a far-fetched idea in terms of Anglo-American strategy.
> 
> the plan for the destabilization and ultimately, balkanization of Pakistan has originated in Anglo-American-Israeli military strategic circles. Britain has long been famous for Divide and COnquer strategy, which was inherited by U.S. and it kept on functioning in the case of Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Croatia, Africa, Middle East etc.
> 
> Ultimately, the aims of the Mumbai attacks are to target Pakistan for balkanization, in the next frame of that movie, we all are watching since few decades, called New World Order.
> 
> The Mumbai attacks do not aid India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, or any nation within the region. The beneficiaries of the Mumbai Massacre are in London and New York, in the boardrooms and shareholders of the largest international banks; which seek total control of the world. Having dominated North America and Europe for much of recent history, these bankers, primarily Anglo-American, but also European, seek to exert their total control over the world&#8217;s resources, currencies, and populations.
> 
> *References:*
> [1]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/18/AR2006071800702.html
> 
> [2]http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/India_gets_intelligence_aid_from_US_UK/articleshow/3770950.cms
> 
> [3]http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world-news/two-terrorists-killed-two-arrested-in-mumbai_100124003.html
> 
> [4]http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Four-terrorists-killed-nine-arrested/391103/
> 
> [5]http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2008/11/29/mumbai-attacks-seven-terrorists-were-british-claims-indian-government-86908-20932992/
> 
> [6]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/3533472/Mumbai-attack-British-men-among-terrorists.html



There's something more that I need to add to this from a another point of view. Lets get back to the days when there were two super powers: The USSR and The West 

So much was the conflicts and competition, we had a global arms race, many wars, the space race, cloak and dagger, fear of nuclear attack and cultures being manipulated.

Soon Soviet Union collapsed and paved way the only super power left in the world The US. During the 90s the West enjoyed being monopoly super power, dominating, showing its stance to anyone who would NOT follow their way, (their version of democracy). They had no-one to tell them, no one to challenge them both econmy and military until the next centruy.

CHINA  
China was coming up in both Econmy and military and that made the Westreally worried. Now that India is coming up and that india wants to build its missle to go 8000miles - this has really got on them on red alert

The West had to move quickly, attacking india was out of the question as the Iraq and Afgan war proved to be umpopular and that their resources were tangle up in these wars.

Allying Pakikstan will only make PAkistan stronger in the region and make a stronger Islamic country that could spread to other Islamic country plus the fear of so called extremists. Likewise allying Inda would make them powerful and HELl they don;t want that.
And If they wanted to start a war between India and China , they don't want a true Islam to get a full grip in the Middleeast.



But hang on a minute aren't Pakistan and India bitter enemies ? 

Why not have theses to nation attack each other start a war so they will end up looking like Dresden after ALlied bombers came during WW2 ?
- have a Nuclear waste on both side of the boarder ? 
- bombed back to the stoneage to start again ?


The point is the west don't want another super power emerging and want concentrate fully on China instead of two.

If Pakistan and India were wise they wouldn't be playing thier dirty games

Its what Pashtun said The Mumbai attacks do not aid India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, or any nation within that region. Only to eliminate India and Pakistan to become a super power and to establish peace in that region.

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## roadrunner

The Mumbai attacks have helped Indian BJP 

The upcoming elections will give them more votes thanks to the hardline stance of BJP. 

The groups fighting in Kashmir don't get any reputation points from this. 


Pakistan has not benefitted. 


The West doesn't care about India or Pakistan. China is the one they worry about. 

It's not really in America's interest to see the troops diverted from the western border. 

It's not impossible, but if the Americans want their pipelines active through Afghanistan and Pakistan, they need stability in those countries. 

This does not mean that an independent Balochistan isn't in their interests.


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## ARSENAL6

ANd how would they get an indepedent Baluchastan then ?
Pakistan is MUCH more than cable than Iraq when Iraq was intact.

The West will not only face China being a super power but Russia is also making a move.
India and Pakistan are already on thier way and they want to stop it.
Who knows, in 30 years in the future we may see Brazil , Argentina and even Ghana rising to the top.

BTW The US economy has gone down along side with its military - this could have an effect on Europe as a whole.


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## linkinpark

*PM led N-Command meeting on Saturday
*
25 Dec 2008, 0305 hrs IST, Rajat Pandit, TNN


NEW DELHI: The top-level security meeting held by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh last Saturday was actually a meeting of Nuclear Command Authority (NCA). The meeting, kept under wraps so as not to fuel the current war hysteria between India and Pakistan, coincided with the first strong sign of Islamabad backtracking on its promise to crack down on the masterminds of 26/11. 

Sources, however, denied the NCA meeting on December 20 had anything to do with the current stand-off with Pakistan in wake of the Mumbai terror strikes. They, in fact, stressed the meeting's "only intention'' was "to take decisions on the further consolidation of India's nuclear deterrence''. 

The UPA government this week has tried to play down apprehensions of an imminent military conflagration, with the PM making it clear on Tuesday that "nobody wanted war''. 

Cautioning against reading much into what they called "a routine meeting'', the sources pointed to the "no-first-use'' policy that underpins India's nuclear doctrine. 

"Nuclear weapons are not for war-fighting or even threatening anybody. Any talk of them coming into play is totally absurd. We have a very clear self-declared no-first use policy,'' said a source. 

Pakistan, in contrast, has no such policy. And when President Asif Ali Zardari indicated a willingness to take a turn away from it recently, he was publicly snubbed by the military leadership who call the shots across the border. Unlike India, where the NCA is controlled by the civilian leadership, the finger on the nuclear button in Pakistan is that of its Army chief General Pervez Kayani. 

For the NCA meeting to have skipped a discussion on the tension building up in wake of Pakistan's belligerent refusal to keep its promise to act against terror groups is improbable. In fact, as reported by TOI on Sunday, the "conventional'' operational preparedness of the armed forces to tackle any eventuality did figure in the meeting. 

Since then, Pakistan has shown aggressive signs of cranking up its war machinery, even as Indian forces maintain a high state of operational readiness, with armoured columns, warships and fighters ready to swing into action "in the shortest possible time'' if required. 

A meeting of the NCA is held once every three-to-six months to review the further development and management of the country's nuclear arsenal. Under the existing structure, the NCA's political council led by the PM is the "sole body which can authorize the use of nuclear weapons''. 

The NCA also has an executive council, headed by the national security advisor, to provide inputs and "execute the directives'' given to it by the political council. 

India created the NCA and the tri-Service Strategic Forces Command (SFC) to manage the country's nuclear arsenal in January 2003 after the 10-month troop mobilisation along the Indo-Pak border under Operation Parakram in wake of the December 2001 terror strike on Parliament. 

Though India's nuclear command and control structures and related tasks are on a firm footing now, the SFC still has some way to go before it becomes a full-fledged operational command. 

SFC only has the nuclear-capable Prithvi (150 to 350-km range), Agni-I (700-km) and Agni-II (2,500-km) ballistic missiles under its operational control at present. 

It does not have a squadron of "dedicated'' fighters tasked to deliver nuclear bombs. Instead, IAF itself maintains some "dual-tasked'' fighter-bombers for the purpose. 

Similarly, the Navy has only two dual-tasked warships armed with the Dhanush (variant of Prithvi with a 330-km range) missiles, INS Subhadra and INS Suvarna, at present. 

The glaring gap, of course, is the lack of nuclear-powered submarines since they constitute the most potent and least vulnerable platform to launch nuclear-tipped missiles in "a second-strike contingency''.

PM led N-Command meeting on Saturday-India-The Times of India


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## linkinpark

*IAF conducts precision bombing practice runs
*Wednesday, 24 December , 2008, 22:16

New Delhi: With the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) flying sorties over two important cities in the wake of heightened sub-continental tensions after the Mumbai carnage, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has been carrying out precision bombing practice runs to prepare itself for any eventuality, sources said on Wednesday.
With the option of carrying out precision bombings of terrorist camps in Pakistan-administered Kashmir doing the rounds, IAF sources said that its fighter jets have been carrying out practice sorties at firing ranges in the Rajasthan sector and elsewhere.

Precision bombings are being carried out at various air-to-ground ranges like Pokhran, Jamnagar, Jodhpur, Gwalior and Halwara, an IAF source said.

However, an IAF spokesman said: It is a routine exercise. We carry out such practices on a regular basis.


The sources also added that there would be no deployment of IAF fighter jets at forward air bases.

With the coming of air-to-air refuellers, India does not need to deploy fighters at the forward bases. The aircraft can cover any distance, perform their mission and return to their respective bases, the sources said.

Pakistan does not have air-to-air refuellers.

Tension between the two neighbours heightened after the Mumbai terror attacks, with India asking Pakistan to crack down on the terrorist camps functioning from its soil.

On Tuesday, India cautioned against creating war hysteria and asked Islamabad to address the real issue of dismantling the terror machine in that country.

Taking a long-range view, New Delhi also indicated its preference for diplomatic options by asking the international community to intensify pressure on Islamabad to comply with the UN resolutions against terrorism.

In a carefully calibrated message, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Tuesday underscored India's growing impatience with diversionary tactics adopted by Islamabad as he appealed to the international community to pressure Pakistan to honour its anti-terror commitments.

The issue is not war, the issue is terror and territory in Pakistan being used to promote, aid and abet this terror, Manmohan Singh told reporters outside parliament. "Nobody wants war," he stressed.

PAF jets flew a series of sorties over Lahore and Rawalpindi on Monday as part of its increased "vigilance", officials said.


Publication | Indian Publication News | Indian Publication Aggregator | Regional Publication News | Leading Publications India


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## pkpatriotic

*Mumbai, Corporate Security and Indo-Pakistani Conflict*
*By Fred Burton - Stratfor
December 24, 2008 *

The Trident-Oberoi and Taj Mahal hotels in Mumbai reopened Dec. 21, less than one month after the Nov. 26 Mumbai attack that left more than 170 people dead. During that crisis, hotel guests and visitors became trapped after coming under attack from militants using guns, grenades and other weapons to kill indiscriminately. As the investigation into the perpetrators of the Mumbai attack continues, New Delhi has demanded that Islamabad take action to control its militant proxies and militants operating from Pakistan. Because Islamabad has not yet met New Delhis demands, Pakistan and India stand on the brink of military confrontation. 

Prior to the attacks, Indias increasingly precarious security situation and the inability of Indian security forces to effectively address the deteriorating situation had already made the country less attractive to businesses. A series of bombing attacks throughout the country in 2008, attacks against executives and above all, the Mumbai attack, all have showcased the danger of doing business in the South Asian country at present. And if military confrontation between India and Pakistan erupts in the wake of the Mumbai attacks, multinational corporations quite possibly could face a number of new threats from militant groups in addition to more traditional security problems. Because the exact nature and locations of potential Indian military action against Pakistan are not known, the specific problems multinational corporations might face cannot fully be predicted. Regardless, corporations should be prepared to respond to a number of problems with the potential to disrupt their operations and the security of their personnel. 

*Facilities and Personnel Security*
If conflict breaks out between India and Pakistan, corporate operations will be affected regardless of whether a particular business finds itself in the line of fire. Pakistani retaliation to an Indian strike could take the form of traditional military action, but it also could well involve asymmetric warfare. In this scenario, Pakistan would act through its militant proxies  who could well target Westerners associated with multinational corporations in a bid to damage the Indian economy. 

Previous attacks throughout India have shown that numerous militant organizations can cause serious damage and high body counts. But these attacks largely focused on Indian targets  including crowded marketplaces, theaters and mosques  that would cause high casualty numbers among the local population or would damage landmarks. The attacks in Mumbai widened this target set to include foreigners and Jewish interests. While the Taj and Oberoi hotels probably were attacked in part because of their status as Mumbai landmarks, the direct targeting of foreigners indicates the hotels also were chosen in a bid to strike Westerners. (It goes without saying that the attack on Nariman House was intended to target Jews and Israeli interests.) 

The Mumbai attacks showed that attacking locations where Westerners are known to congregate, rather than attacks against marketplaces or cinemas that will primary kill Indian nationals, could well be a more efficient and effective way for militants to use their limited resources. And as hotels and other traditional soft targets harden their facilities and implement new security countermeasures to prevent further Mumbai-style attacks, militants will seek less-secure venues that will achieve the same result. 

Such targets could include apartment complexes or neighborhoods that primarily house Westerners  similar to the 2004 attacks on the Saudi Arabian Oil Co. residential facilities in Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia  or other soft targets such as Western-style marketplaces or restaurants. Though most multinational corporations operate in hardened facilities away from city centers, affording better access control and countersurveillance, their employees cannot remain behind walls at all times. And even within multinational corporate compounds, security cannot be fully guaranteed. 

The Mumbai attack has renewed fears that insiders could be used to carry out future attacks on multinational corporate facilities. Ajmal Amir Kamil, the only Mumbai attacker taken alive, reportedly has told police that at least five people in the Mumbai area aided the attackers in their preparations for the attack. Kamil reportedly told investigators these persons provided information about various locations in the city and police stations, though they were not involved in the actual attacks. Indian media reports also note that an intern chef at the Taj may have assisted the attackers preparations by providing access to various parts of the hotel, though the Taj has denied the mans involvement. Unconfirmed reports also hold that some of the attackers wore hotel uniforms, indicating possible staff collusion. 

Given the high level of technical sophistication displayed in the way responsibility was claimed for the attack, and given that workers in the information technology industry were involved in previous attacks, the IT sector should be especially vigilant about the potential for militant attacks with inside assistance. While the investigation into how the attackers planned their mission is still ongoing, militants seeking to use the lessons from Mumbai might make renewed attempts to infiltrate multinational corporations to gain information that could be used to launch an attack.

Corporations should also take into account the possibility of Hindu-nationalist-led protests against the Mumbai attack long after the attack itself, which could disrupt business operations. Such a delay between a triggering event and the protests themselves has precedent in the February 2002 protests that occurred months after the December 2001 Kashmiri militant attacks on the Indian parliament. These protests continued sporadically through the summer of 2002, involving extensive violence and many casualties. Similarly, the militant group Indian Mujahideen (IM) said many of its recent attacks were in retaliation for the 2002 communal riots in Gujarat in which more that 1,000 (mostly Muslim) people were killed. Indian military action against Pakistan could be the trigger needed to incite widespread public protests against the Mumbai attacks.

*Travel Security*
Multinational corporations have long noted the problems of keeping track of employees traveling for either business or personal reasons. Travel during a military conflict poses special problems in this regard. The Mumbai attack showcased those problems, while also adding another layer of concern for corporate security managers. Though hotels have long been a favored target of militant attacks, the prolonged nature of the Mumbai conflict and the reports of Western hostages being held in the hotels made the situation even more problematic for those seeking to identify the people inside.

Efforts at locating employees were further complicated when Indian security forces cut off communication lines inside the hotels to isolate the attackers and prevent them from communicating with one another. Once employees were located inside, security managers also faced difficult decisions about what form of transportation to use when moving employees away from the scene of the crisis. 

In the event of a military confrontation between India and Pakistan, corporations would be likely to face similar challenges in locating employees traveling in the country and in removing them from dangerous situations. In the event India chooses to carry out targeted airstrikes against Pakistan, all civilian aircraft could be grounded and Indian airspace frozen. In this scenario, executives and other travelers in India would be unable to leave the country until the ban is lifted. 

In the long run, corporate travelers in India (and elsewhere) will continue to face the threat of militant targeting of hotels, especially as other militant groups observe the success of the Mumbai attackers. While the Taj and Oberoi were known as high-quality luxury hotels suitable for Western executives, a number of other similarly situated luxury hotels in the city also house high-profile guests that could make an attractive target for militants. 

It is possible the Mumbai attackers chose the Taj and Oberoi because security at the two facilities was not as prominent or visible as in other hotels. In any case, that the Mumbai attackers pre-positioned explosives and other weapons for their use inside the hotel indicates they conducted extensive preoperational surveillance of the targets and likely understood the security countermeasures present in each location. Given the Mumbai attackers successful penetration of these hotel facilities and similar attacks in the region, corporations and travelers should be prepared for similar attacks in the future. 

*These problems reinforce the importance of implementing a consistent travel security plan for employees that allows personnel managers to know the full itinerary of traveling employees, allowing a more effective response to emergency situations. Ultimately, it is impossible to predict the exact location or timing of emergencies. Even so, employees should be fully briefed on contingency plans for avoiding  and escaping from  emergencies, as well as points of contact to report their status to increase the odds of surviving future Mumbais.*


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## pkpatriotic

*India's media blasted for sensational Mumbai coverage*
With tensions running high between India and Pakistan, the press is being urged to quit fanning the flames.
*By Daniel Pepper 
from the December 24, 2008* 

*Mumbai, India - Emerging from decades of government control and regulations, India's media are quickly evolving into a boisterous, zealous fourth estate, most observers agree. But coverage of the 67-hour Mumbai (Bombay) terrorist attacks has caused unprecedented condemnation, especially toward 24-hour television news channels. Critics describe it as "TV terror" for showing gory scenes, being too aggressive, and often reporting incorrect information as fact.* 

*"They don't need to apologize as much as they need to introspect  figure out how to operate in a time of crisis," *says Dipankar Gupta, sociology professor at Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi. 

On the evening of Nov. 26, well-coordinated attacks against two five-star hotels, a hospital, a popular cafe, a railway station, and a Jewish center brought the financial capital of India to its knees, leaving at least 171 dead and more than 230 injured. 

*In the following days, critics say, many Indian journalists were overly dramatic, sensationalist, and quick to report live "exclusives" of unconfirmed rumors. Many say TV anchors, who are minor celebrities in India, were overwrought with emotion and were quick to blame Pakistan for the attacks.* 

"It's high time we realize and accept that we are at fault," said Shishir Joshi, editorial director of Mid-Day, a Mumbai newspaper. "We did well getting into the line of fire, but from an ethical point of view we screwed up big-time." 

*Recognizing the missteps in coverage, the recently created National Broadcaster Association revealed a new set of rules for the industry last week. The guidelines ban broadcasting of footage that could reveal security operations and live contact with hostages or attackers.* 

The association, which represents many of the country's top news channels, hammered out the new regulations after several meetings with government officials. *At the same time, India's Parliament is considering the creation of a broadcasting regulatory agency for private news channels.* 

*Meanwhile, the story continues to develop, as tensions run high and add urgency to calls for media regulation. On Monday, India's Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherje insisted that Pakistan take aggressive action against those responsible for the Mumbai attacks. The Indian government is ready to "take all measures necessary as we deem fit to deal with the situation," Mr. Mukherje told a group of diplomats in Delhi. *

For several weeks, India has been asking Pakistan to hand over insurgents involved with militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which is suspected of masterminding the attacks. Pakistan has yet to confirm that the surviving gunman of the Mumbai attacks is Pakistani, despite reports Monday that Ajmal Amir Kasab made a statement, sent to Pakistan officials, claiming to be from Pakistan. 

Television coverage of the attacks showed dead bodies and hostages trapped in rooms, revealed commando operations and positions, and reported the location of hostages at the Taj Mahal Hotel. Senior news editors are accused of playing martial music between updates and providing airtime to Bollywood actors and other members of Mumbai's chatterati. One station even aired a telephone conversation with one of the 10 gunmen. 

"One of the ill effects of unrestrained coverage is that of provoking anger amongst the masses," said K.G. Balakrishnan, the chief justice of the Supreme Court of India, during a recent conference on terrorism in New Delhi. 

The relatively young medium of 24-hour television news received the lion's share of criticism. "There are people on television channels who are not even familiar with the basics of coverage," says Pankaj Vohra, political editor of the Hindustan Times in New Delhi. "I think it needs to evolve itself and it will become mature as time passes." 

*The most maligned journalist has been Barkha Dutt, the young news talk-show host of New Delhi television. The Facebook group,* *"Barkha Dutt for worst journalist in the world,"* *has attracted nearly 1,500 members since its creation following the attacks. The site accuses her of being melodramatic, arrogant, and insensitive to relatives of victims.* 

*Ms. Dutt and other television journalists have also been criticized for focusing on the sieges at the Taj and Oberoi hotels  domains of the country's wealthy and ruling elite  while largely ignoring the train station that was littered with the bodies of migrant workers. Fifty-eight people were gunned down there.* 

Dutt says she finds much of the criticism to be *"incorrect and mean-spirited," *but concedes that there is a lesson to be learned. *"If there is even a shadow of doubt of security being compromised, the industry should be willing to delay-telecast so that we can once and for all end this argument,"* she says. 

*Regulating the industry could be a joint effort between the media and government, according to critics who say the government should also share some of the fault for the sensational coverage: Journalists did not have access to secure sites and very little official information was offered. *

*"A media crackdown is not the answer  self-regulated media is at the core of Indian democracy," says Arnab Goswami, editor-in-chief of Times Now television channel. "This incident should highlight the need for government and media to work together." *

The media has criticized both local and federal government for failing to set up fixed police lines around hostage sites and for not providing regular press briefings. 

*"The [media] beast has got to be constantly fed. The information flow from government sources was terrible," **said Rajdeep Sardesai, editor-in-chief of the CNN-IBN news channel.* 

Around Nariman House, the center for Jewish life located in a neighborhood of small, labyrinthine streets, a member of India's elite antiterrorism squad brandishing a pistol chased a dozen reporters from the roof of a building opposite the siege, from where they had been perched for 36 hours. The journalists then ran across a narrow alley into an adjacent building to angle for a better position. 

*"In most places the police need to be trained at crowd management. Nobody expected this kind of attack, this magnitude of the attack," *says Mr. Vohra of the Hindustan Times newspaper. 

India's media played a prominent role in its independence movement, and for years journalism held a respected position in society. 

*"It's fine to say that the media overreacted and that it has become jingoistic and nationalistic. The question is why has it become like that," says Ajit Sahi, an editor at Tehelka magazine, India's leading investigative weekly. He argues that the profit motive of the corporate media houses has forced journalists out of unions by offering them twice or three times what they previously earned, though their employment is now governed by contracts that can be terminated at any time. The problem, argues Mr. Sahi, is that the current model guarantees journalists no protection, even if they object to a story being manipulated or sensationalized.* 

That's the accusation levied by one of India's most famous film directors, Mahesh Bhatt, against CNN-IBN's Mr. Sardesai, one of India's most prominent TV anchors. Bhatt went a step further and charged that Sardesai and his channel encroached on Bhatt's turf  fiction  after the channel played Bollywood theme songs from movies about wars between India and Pakistan during news updates. 

*"It's what we do in the movies  whipping up passion  and what was at stake, but a nuclear holocaust?" argues Bhatt, referring to the nuclear weapons capabilities of both South Asian countries. "You use the same tools  you keep the audience on a continuous high."*


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## Neo

*Guys please stick to the topic ot the thread will be closed.
Dr.Rehan, please follow the forum rules, racial or religious slurs are not tollerated here.

Neo*

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## aimarraul

Everyone know where the terrorists come from,If US army could control the terrorists in Afghanistan instead of pursuing them into Pakistan,If Indian did a better job on the national security&#65292;none of these terrorist attacks will happen, US army just make the world worse ,and India is so afraid to make a voice against US,you indian just can't wait to find a reason to start a war in order to divert your attention from your own mess,just like US did in Iraq

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## thorosius

*India's media blasted for sensational Mumbai coverage*

With tensions running high between India and Pakistan, the press is being urged to quit fanning the flames.
By Daniel Pepper | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor 
from the December 24, 2008 edition


Mumbai, India - *Emerging from decades of government control and regulations, India's media are quickly evolving into a boisterous, zealous fourth estate, most observers agree. But coverage of the 67-hour Mumbai (Bombay) terrorist attacks has caused unprecedented condemnation, especially toward 24-hour television news channels. Critics describe it as "TV terror" for showing gory scenes, being too aggressive, and often reporting incorrect information as fact. *

"They don't need to apologize as much as they need to introspect  figure out how to operate in a time of crisis," says Dipankar Gupta, sociology professor at Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi. 

On the evening of Nov. 26, well-coordinated attacks against two five-star hotels, a hospital, a popular cafe, a railway station, and a Jewish center brought the financial capital of India to its knees, leaving at least 171 dead and more than 230 injured. 

In the following days, critics say, many Indian journalists were overly dramatic, sensationalist, and quick to report live "exclusives" of unconfirmed rumors. Many say TV anchors, who are minor celebrities in India, were overwrought with emotion and were quick to blame Pakistan for the attacks. 

"It's high time we realize and accept that we are at fault," said Shishir Joshi, editorial director of Mid-Day, a Mumbai newspaper. "We did well getting into the line of fire, but from an ethical point of view we screwed up big-time." 

Recognizing the missteps in coverage, the recently created National Broadcaster Association revealed a new set of rules for the industry last week. The guidelines ban broadcasting of footage that could reveal security operations and live contact with hostages or attackers. 

The association, which represents many of the country's top news channels, hammered out the new regulations after several meetings with government officials. At the same time, India's Parliament is considering the creation of a broadcasting regulatory agency for private news channels. 

Meanwhile, the story continues to develop, as tensions run high and add urgency to calls for media regulation. On Monday, India's Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherje insisted that Pakistan take aggressive action against those responsible for the Mumbai attacks. The Indian government is ready to "take all measures necessary as we deem fit to deal with the situation," Mr. Mukherje told a group of diplomats in Delhi. 

For several weeks, India has been asking Pakistan to hand over insurgents involved with militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which is suspected of masterminding the attacks. Pakistan has yet to confirm that the surviving gunman of the Mumbai attacks is Pakistani, despite reports Monday that Ajmal Amir Kasab made a statement, sent to Pakistan officials, claiming to be from Pakistan. 

Television coverage of the attacks showed dead bodies and hostages trapped in rooms, revealed commando operations and positions, and reported the location of hostages at the Taj Mahal Hotel. Senior news editors are accused of playing martial music between updates and providing airtime to Bollywood actors and other members of Mumbai's chatterati. One station even aired a telephone conversation with one of the 10 gunmen. 

"One of the ill effects of unrestrained coverage is that of provoking anger amongst the masses," said K.G. Balakrishnan, the chief justice of the Supreme Court of India, during a recent conference on terrorism in New Delhi. 

The relatively young medium of 24-hour television news received the lion's share of criticism. "There are people on television channels who are not even familiar with the basics of coverage," says Pankaj Vohra, political editor of the Hindustan Times in New Delhi. "I think it needs to evolve itself and it will become mature as time passes." 

The most maligned journalist has been Barkha Dutt, the young news talk-show host of New Delhi television. The Facebook group, "Barkha Dutt for worst journalist in the world," has attracted nearly 1,500 members since its creation following the attacks. The site accuses her of being melodramatic, arrogant, and insensitive to relatives of victims. 

Ms. Dutt and other television journalists have also been criticized for focusing on the sieges at the Taj and Oberoi hotels  domains of the country's wealthy and ruling elite  while largely ignoring the train station that was littered with the bodies of migrant workers. Fifty-eight people were gunned down there. 

Dutt says she finds much of the criticism to be "incorrect and mean-spirited," but concedes that there is a lesson to be learned. "If there is even a shadow of doubt of security being compromised, the industry should be willing to delay-telecast so that we can once and for all end this argument," she says. 

Regulating the industry could be a joint effort between the media and government, according to critics who say the government should also share some of the fault for the sensational coverage: Journalists did not have access to secure sites and very little official information was offered. 

"A media crackdown is not the answer  self-regulated media is at the core of Indian democracy," says Arnab Goswami, editor-in-chief of Times Now television channel. "This incident should highlight the need for government and media to work together." 

The media has criticized both local and federal government for failing to set up fixed police lines around hostage sites and for not providing regular press briefings. 

"The [media] beast has got to be constantly fed. The information flow from government sources was terrible," said Rajdeep Sardesai, editor-in-chief of the CNN-IBN news channel. 

Around Nariman House, the center for Jewish life located in a neighborhood of small, labyrinthine streets, a member of India's elite antiterrorism squad brandishing a pistol chased a dozen reporters from the roof of a building opposite the siege, from where they had been perched for 36 hours. The journalists then ran across a narrow alley into an adjacent building to angle for a better position. 

"In most places the police need to be trained at crowd management. Nobody expected this kind of attack, this magnitude of the attack," says Mr. Vohra of the Hindustan Times newspaper. 

India's media played a prominent role in its independence movement, and for years journalism held a respected position in society. 

"It's fine to say that the media overreacted and that it has become jingoistic and nationalistic. The question is why has it become like that," says Ajit Sahi, an editor at Tehelka magazine, India's leading investigative weekly. He argues that the profit motive of the corporate media houses has forced journalists out of unions by offering them twice or three times what they previously earned, though their employment is now governed by contracts that can be terminated at any time. The problem, argues Mr. Sahi, is that the current model guarantees journalists no protection, even if they object to a story being manipulated or sensationalized. 

That's the accusation levied by one of India's most famous film directors, Mahesh Bhatt, against CNN-IBN's Mr. Sardesai, one of India's most prominent TV anchors. Bhatt went a step further and charged that Sardesai and his channel encroached on Bhatt's turf  fiction  after the channel played Bollywood theme songs from movies about wars between India and Pakistan during news updates. 

"It's what we do in the movies  whipping up passion  and what was at stake, but a nuclear holocaust?" argues Bhatt, referring to the nuclear weapons capabilities of both South Asian countries. "You use the same tools  you keep the audience on a continuous high."

---
India's media blasted for sensational Mumbai coverage | csmonitor.com


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## was




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## Lockheed F-16

I don't like Iran but every speech I hear from Ahmadinejad impresses me, he speaks the truth which our politicians mainly Zardari and Rehman wouldn't speak out even if they were paid


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## Moscow

has anyone in the forum given it a thought?
indian claims of the pakistani origin of the said terrorista can be proven with the dna samples of the captured terrorists and also the slain terrorists

collected evidence  like hair and tissues from blankets and towels on the fishing trawlwr  that india claims to have being used by the terrorists.can be matched with the captured and slain terrorists.
also indian claims of the captured terrorists origin might also be helpful

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## linkinpark

moscow said:


> has anyone in the forum given it a thought?
> indian claims of the pakistani origin of the said terrorista can be proven with the dna samples of the captured terrorists and also the slain terrorists
> 
> collected evidence  like hair and tissues from blankets and towels on the fishing trawlwr  that india claims to have being used by the terrorists.can be matched with the captured and slain terrorists.
> also indian claims of the captured terrorists origin might also be helpful



DNA has been already collected from all the terrorists. The investigative agencies should now get hold of parents or siblings or relatives DNA and match the DNA markers with them to confirm that the terrorists were from Pakistan.

There is no need for collecting hair or tissue from boat, it will not serve any purpose.


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## linkinpark

Here is how it works

The key to DNA evidence lies in comparing the DNA from the scene of a crime with a suspect's DNA. To do this, investigators have to do three things:

1)Collect DNA at the crime scene and from the suspect 
2)Analyze the DNA to create a DNA profile
3)Compare the profiles to each other









For complete information on DNA evidence go here

HowStuffWorks "How DNA Evidence Works"

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## BanglaBhoot

By ERIC BELLMAN

MUMBAI -- In the Worli Camp district here, a stretch of crumbling concrete buildings that houses thousands of police and their families, residents are grappling with the aftershocks of the terror attacks that left 16 police among the 171 dead and unleashed scorn on the force.

Since the attacks ended Nov. 29, many have wondered how Mumbai's police force of 42,000 failed to present any meaningful challenge to 10 terrorists with assault rifles and grenades. But for the 5,000 inhabitants of this police ghetto, with its grocery store, hospital and temples just for law-enforcement officials, the attacks delivered a more complex message.

The deaths in the line of duty and the capture of one terror suspect alive have been a cause for pride and sadness. Criticism of the police reaction to the attacks has added anger to the mix of emotions.

"Everyone is always blaming the police," says Assistant Police Inspector Sanjay Govilkar, who grew up in Worli Camp, a British military encampment before India gained independence in 1947; his father was a policeman too. "I want people to look toward us positively, not hate us."

India's police force hasn't expanded to match its vast population. The number of police per 100,000 people has slipped to 125 today from 134 in 1996, according to India's National Crime Record Bureau. That compares with a global average of more than 200 per 100,000 people, experts say. Most police work 12-hour shifts, six days a week, for which they make less than $200 a month. The vast majority are armed only with bamboo sticks called lathis. The government has been criticized for the force's lack of preparation. And the shortcomings in the police response have added to a stereotype across India of police as pot-bellied, mustachioed men more interested in squeezing a bribe out of citizens than in keeping the peace.

Ratan Tata, chairman of Tata Group, which runs the Taj Mahal Palace & Tower, one of the hotels that was targeted, cited the security services' lack of readiness for the severity of the attacks. "The police were not equipped to engage," he told a local news channel last week. "There didn't seem means to get reinforcements."

The government has since announce plans to beef up the police system with a national investigative force and more rapid-action forces. It's also pledged to improve training and equipment.

For many at Worli Camp, the terror attacks confirmed that Mumbai's force is underequipped and overworked. Psychologists maintain that in India, as elsewhere, depression, alcoholism and suicide are chronic problems for police. In the wake of the attacks, many police are also struggling with anger, guilt and post-traumatic stress.

Mr. Govilkar, 40 years old, wasn't working Nov. 26, the day the attacks began. Like many other police in Worli Camp that day, he jumped in a taxi and went to help. Later that night, he was shot in the back during fighting with two of the alleged terrorists when they drove a hijacked car into a police roadblock. Though the 16 police manning the roadblock had only two handguns among them, they killed one of the attackers and caught the other -- the only one to be captured alive.

Today, Mr. Govilkar's wound is healing, but he is having trouble sleeping. He misses three police friends who were killed, he said. He wishes the force had better equipment and training -- and that people understood how hard the police work.

"I was devastated. Our man was killed right in front of me," he said at his family's one-bedroom home in Block 25 of Worli Camp. "The police force is my family."

Attitudes toward the police have changed in Mumbai since Mr. Govilkar joined the force in the early 1990s. Back then, police often were portrayed as heroes in Bollywood movies. Today they are more likely to be the bad guys. Over the past 20 years, members of the Mumbai force have been charged with crimes such as murder and rape and with participating in attacks on Muslims during religious riots.

Worli Camp residents say the police did their best with what they had. "This should never have happened," said Nilesh Kadam, a third-generation policeman, sitting in front of his home in Worli Camp with his one-year-old daughter hanging on his knee. "How are you going to stop a terrorist with a night stick?"

The camp is full of billboards with the faces of the dead police. "Worli Camp Salutes Those Killed in the Terrorist Attacks. Theirs was a Hero's Death." reads one. Even the children pretend to be heroes. "Let's play Taj hotel," said one boy. "That person there could be a terrorist."

Some good has come in the aftermath of the attacks, Mr. Govilkar said. He is getting respect from many of his friends and relatives for the first time, and he has received awards from the Mumbai Rotary and Lions Clubs for his valor.

In the past, his 11-year-old son Parth had shown little interest in following him into the service. But after the Lions Club ceremony, Parth surprised his father by announcing that he, too, has decided to become a policeman.

Police Morale Takes a Hit In Wake of Mumbai Attacks - WSJ.com


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## MastanKhan

Moscow,

You just beat me to it---I was just about going to post a thread regarding the DNA.

The hair and other samples from the boat would be extremely impoprtant as well---they are all a part of the crime scene---unless india wants to hide something----.


On the same note----I look at the picture of Amir Kasab----and what jumps out at me just by looking at the picture----this kid didnot grow up in a village in a poor family----niether the facial features justify his ethnic background, nor the posture, physical attribution show that he came from the background as is being portrayed.

Just looking at the picture----the reflection of the person shows an educated young man----the posture is that of a confident young guy with a " I DON'T GIVE A F _ C K " kind of attitude.

There will be dirt on the soles of the shoes as well as dirt left from the shoes in the boat as well----grains of sand would tell if it was from karachi or mumbai---food left over, clothes they were wearing, clothes that were left over in the boat----material in the body hair, socks, undergarments----there would be a thousand and one things that would point to where these people have come from---if these people accordingly carried their " pakistani I D's and their cell phones on them " during the confrontation, then I don't think that they would be so bright to destroy all the eidence leading back to their place of origin----they they intentionally wanted to.

Linking just the DNA to the siblings is not that important----any pakistani tourist can be kidnapped by the indians or any freedom fighter captured in kashmir by the indian forces can be made a scape goat by the indians----the true relation to the crime comes out from related items----the items on their persona---and the items on the boat----these items would match it step by a step and trace back the journey to its origin.

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## must7

I would not say that it is just the police which failed the society, I was wondering was the army commandos like the black cats which are usually loaned to the civilian setup !

I would say that the blame should also be taken by the army who ferried commandos by bus !


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## Moscow

MastanKhan said:


> Moscow,
> 
> You just beat me to it---I was just about going to post a thread regarding the DNA.
> 
> The hair and other samples from the boat would be extremely impoprtant as well---they are all a part of the crime scene---unless india wants to hide something----.
> 
> 
> On the same note----I look at the picture of Amir Kasab----and what jumps out at me just by looking at the picture----this kid didnot grow up in a village in a poor family----niether the facial features justify his ethnic background, nor the posture, physical attribution show that he came from the background as is being portrayed.
> 
> Just looking at the picture----the reflection of the person shows an educated young man----the posture is that of a confident young guy with a " I DON'T GIVE A F _ C K " kind of attitude.
> 
> There will be dirt on the soles of the shoes as well as dirt left from the shoes in the boat as well----grains of sand would tell if it was from karachi or mumbai---food left over, clothes they were wearing, clothes that were left over in the boat----material in the body hair, socks, undergarments----there would be a thousand and one things that would point to where these people have come from---if these people accordingly carried their " pakistani I D's and their cell phones on them " during the confrontation, then I don't think that they would be so bright to destroy all the eidence leading back to their place of origin----they they intentionally wanted to.
> 
> Linking just the DNA to the siblings is not that important----any pakistani tourist can be kidnapped by the indians or any freedom fighter captured in kashmir by the indian forces can be made a scape goat by the indians----the true relation to the crime comes out from related items----the items on their persona---and the items on the boat----these items would match it step by a step and trace back the journey to its origin.




sir thank you for your thoughts,
i think this is the approach the investigation agencies should take.specialists in this regard can also be brought from other countries.
the world community is always ready to help in the investigations.


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## AliFarooq

this is off topic, but snipers have the hardest training of all,


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## Super Falcon

i agree with you friend par ab wo waqt agaya ka pakistan ko shurwat karni padagi bhoot sakht mezaj ki against America, India and israel aur iran aur china koak china apna pakka itihadi banana hoga jab phir iran ki maddad sa russia ko pakistan ka dost banna hoga agar america inda ka dos ban sakta ha tu russia pakistan ka kyo nahe aur russia ko karna chahta battana hoga ka hum apki maddad ha taka app apna badla america sa lan aur afghanistan sa america ko nikal saken iran russia and china are anti america we just need to change our mind set


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## Pk_Thunder

*Chinese FM for defusing Pak-India tension*​
Updated at: 1907 PST, Friday, December 26, 2008




Chinese FM for defusing Pak-India tension ISLAMABAD: Chinese foreign minister telephoned Pakistan counterpart Shah Mehmood Qureshi and had an exchange of views on bilateral relations besides regional and international issues.

Chinese FM stressed the need for defusing Pak-India tension and in this regard underscored holding of dialogue for resolution of issues.

Tension between the two countries will only help terrorists grow stronger, he added.

He assured his Pakistani counterpart of Chinas continued cooperation to Pakistan for bringing peace and stability in the region.

Shah Mehmmod Qureshi said Pakistan is ready to launch combined investigation if India provides concrete evidence in connection with the Mumbai violence.


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## BanglaBhoot

*A lesson from Mumbai ...*

Metal detectors, armed guards and sniffer dogs aren't usually the signs of a celebration. But the celebrations Sunday night marking the partial reopenings of two hotels hit last month in the terrorist siege of Mumbai are, of necessity, accompanied by a heightened vigilance. That's the new reality in India.

IndiansMumbaikers in particularhave long prided themselves on bouncing back from terrorist attacks that have become far too common. But last month's assaults on Mumbai, which left 171 people dead, finally moved a famously resilient and unflappable people to anger.

Yes, Indians are angry at Pakistan, which served as a launch point for the Mumbai onslaught. The rest of the world is watching nervously, waiting to see if Pakistan will turn over to India people who are suspected of masterminding the attack.

But there's another aspect of this that has international implications. Citizens of India are also angry at their own government for failing to keep them safe.

The three-day assault on Mumbai, carried out apparently by just 10 men, exposed India's rickety security and its failure to prepare for terrorism.

Mumbai police were outgunned by the small band of terrorists. The police didn't have bulletproof vests or radio communications. Many were armed with nothing more than lathisbamboo sticks. The attackers carried AK-47s, pistols and hand grenades.

Fire crews arrived hours after they were needed at the burning Taj Mahal Hotel. India's best forces, the "Black Cats" commandos, are based outside Delhi and didn't get to Mumbai until nearly 10 hours after the attacks started. The Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), India's equivalent of the CIA, had warned of a potential terrorist attack on Mumbai, specifically on its hotels. State and local police insist they received no information upon which they could act.

Beyond the disastrous response, India has generally been lackadaisical about security. The nation has about 122 police officers for every 100,000 citizens; the United Nations recommends 222 police. The coast guard has fewer than 100 boats.

McClatchy Newspapers reported that there are fewer than 2,300 weaponsrevolvers, rifles and the likeavailable to the 180,000-strong police force of Maharashtra state, which includes Mumbai.

The priorities of leaders have come under sharp scrutiny. Julio Ribeiro, a former police chief in Mumbai, told McClatchy, "All this can change only when politicians stop recruiting yes-men to the top echelons of the police, and stop diverting elite commandos toward their own personal security."

All this is astonishing, given that India has suffered numerous terrorist attacks in recent years. Last year alone, 1,093 people were killed in terrorist violence in India. Only Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan suffered more terrorism-related deaths.

India had plenty of warning and time to prepare. Perhaps it couldn't have avoided an attack, but it surely could have been better prepared to try, better prepared to respond more quickly and effectively.

India, its citizens stunned and angry and blaming their failed leaders, will have to play catch-up if it hopes to protect the country. The citizens of India are angry. And the rest of us have a reminder: Be vigilant.

A lesson from Mumbai ... -- chicagotribune.com


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## SherdiL!

there police Kevelar is too strong watch out !


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## pardesifr

Listen what Iran say about Mubai drama


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## Bane Blade

Not something unimaginable since he is after all always on the tail of accusing America for eveything although I do think he should come up with some evidence backing his claims.


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## BanglaBhoot

Lanny Davis

There is enough horrible and tragic about the terrorist attacks and killings of innocent people in Mumbai (the city long known in the West as Bombay) in the last several days without some careless media reporting and premature accusations by Indian officials suggesting Pakistani government responsibility making matters worse.

Full disclosure: I represented Pakistan in the 1990s, have visited the country several times, and made many close Pakistani friends during the time I helped Pakistan recover hundreds of millions of dollars the U.S. government owed it.

It is not clear whether the government of India has actually made charges that the government of Pakistan was involved in the attacks or simply remained silent while certain of its officials anonymously suggested such involvement, broadcast through speculative media reporting rather than waiting for the facts to emerge.

For example, Saturday´s New York Times quoted unnamed U.S. intelligence officials that early evidence indicated that Lashkar-e-Taiba, a militant group based in Pakistani Kashmir, might have been involved in the terrorist attacks. (Kashmir remains divided between Pakistani-controlled and Indian-controlled territories, and Islamabad in years past has reportedly allowed militant groups such as Lashkar-e-Taiba to operate against Indian forces from their base in Pakistani Kashmir).

The Times paraphrased the Indian foreign minister, Pranab Mukherjee, as stating that early evidence explicitly pointed to Pakistan´s involvement. Note the words explicitly and Pakistan´s involvement. But the actual quote from the foreign minister is a bit more ambiguous. He is quoted as actually saying, Preliminary evidence, prima facie evidence, indicates elements with links to Pakistan are involved.

Elements with links to Pakistan? That is pure innuendo. That certainly implies the government of Pakistan was involved, but it could also mean, simply, that some of the murderous terrorists happened to be Pakistani.

Exacerbating the innuendo suggesting Pakistani government involvement are references to the secretive Pakistan intelligence agency, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI. It has often been reported that in years past the ISI has supported, directly or indirectly, Lashkar-e-Taiba and other militant groups in Pakistani Kashmir supporting the reuniting of Kashmir as part of Pakistan. It has also been frequently reported that the ISI supported the Taliban during the pre-9/11 years when the Taliban controlled the Afghan government and served as a base for Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda.

But that does not mean the ISI, especially under the new democratically elected government of Asif Ali Zardari, the widower of the late former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, had anything to do with Mumbai.

Nevertheless, the Indian government at the highest level needs to control casual remarks by senior officials suggesting a connection between the Mumbai horror and the government and people of Pakistan. The times are too dangerous to get out in front of the facts - especially between two nuclear powers. 

Perhaps just as important, it simply isn´t fair.

Buried in the weekend´s press reports are statements from the same anonymous U.S. intelligence officials briefing the New York Times reporters about the possible involvement of a group of Pakistani Kashmir-based militants was the statement that there was no evidence that the Pakistani government had any role in the attacks. But that sentence either was downplayed or omitted from most other media reporting.

Mr. Zardari, the Pakistani president, wasted no time immediately issuing public statements abhorring the terrorist attacks and offering full cooperation to find out who was behind the attacks.

On Friday, as the attacks were unfolding and there were already published reports of Pakistan's involvement spreading around the world on the Internet, Mr. Zardari immediately stated, Non-state actors wanted to force upon the governments their own agenda, but they must not be allowed to succeed.

During a four-day visit to India, which happened to fall during the terrorist attacks, Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi reacted to the innuendo apparently coming from Indian politicians and officials by saying to the Indian government, Do not bring politics into this issue. This is a collective issue. We are facing a common enemy, and we should join hands and defeat the enemy.

The Pakistani ambassador to the U.S. - Husain Haqqani, a former professor from Boston University and an old personal acquaintance - endorsed confronting the menace of terrorism with great vigor. He also made the obvious point - but not so obvious from reading most media reports - that it is unfair to blame Pakistan [for] terrorism even before an investigation is undertaken.

To demonstrate its bona fides, Pakistan took the unusual - indeed from a historical standpoint, breathtakingly unprecedented - position of offering to send a representative of the ISI to India to help with the investigation. If such a suggestion had been made as recently as last year, the person suggesting it would have been seen as taking leave of his senses.

India and Pakistan are two truly great countries with which America must maintain close relations - in the war against terror, to deal with the global economic crisis, in trade, and most important, to work together to avoid violence and even a nuclear confrontation over Kashmir, giving a new President-elect Barack Obama a chance to facilitate a final, peaceful solution to the Kashmir dispute as one of his highest foreign-policy priorities.

There are no easy answers. India and Pakistan cannot, as Mr. Zardari stated, allow murderous non-state terrorists to get in the way of peaceful solutions and cooperation between these two great nuclear powers on the subcontinent.

The facts will come out about who is behind this terrorism. All, including the media, need to be patient and wait for that to happen, rather than whisper - and publish - inflammatory and unsubstantiated innuendo. 

Washington Times - DAVIS: Mumbai tragedy: Beware of innuendo on Pakistan


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## cooldude

By ZAHID HUSSAIN, MATTHEW ROSENBERG and PETER WONACOTT

ISLAMABAD -- *Pakistan's own investigation of terror attacks in Mumbai has begun to show substantive links between the 10 gunmen and an Islamic militant group that its powerful spy agency spent years supporting, say people with knowledge of the probe.*

*At least one top leader of militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba, or "Army of the Pure," captured in a raid earlier this month in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir, has confessed the group's involvement in the attack as India and the U.S. have alleged, according to a senior Pakistani security official.
*
*The disclosure could add new international pressure on Pakistan to accept that the attacks, which left 171 dead in India, originated within its borders and to prosecute or extradite the suspects.* That raises difficult and potentially destabilizing issues for the country's new civilian government, its military and the spy agency, Inter-Services Intelligence -- which is conducting interrogations of militants it once cultivated as partners.

*Pakistani security officials say a top Lashkar commander, Zarar Shah, has admitted a role in the Mumbai attack during interrogation, according to the security official, who declined to be identified discussing the investigation. "He is singing," the security official said of Mr. Shah. The admission, the official said, is backed up by U.S. intercepts of a phone call between Mr. Shah and one of the attackers at the Taj Mahal Palace & Tower, the site of a 60-hour confrontation with Indian security forces.*
*
A second person familiar with the investigation said Mr. Shah told Pakistani interrogators that he was one of the key planners of the operation, and that he spoke with the attackers during the rampage to give them advice and keep them focused.*

*The person said Mr. Shah had implicated other Lashkar members, and had broadly confirmed the story told by the sole captured gunman to Indian investigators -- that the 10 assailants trained in Pakistan's part of Kashmir and then went by boat from Karachi to Mumbai. Mr. Shah said the attackers also spent at least a few weeks in Karachi, a crowded Arabian Sea port, training in urban combat to hone skills they would use in their assault.
*
Mr. Shah was picked up along with fellow Lashkar commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi during the military camp raids in Kashmir.

The Mumbai attacks have stoked tensions in India and Pakistan, producing allegations and counter-allegations that have both countries headed toward conflict. Pakistan recently redeployed some troops from the fight against Islamic militants toward the Indian border, and India warned its citizens not to travel to Pakistan. India and Pakistan, both nuclear-armed, have fought three wars since their independent in 1947.

The probe also is stress-testing an uncomfortable shift under way at Pakistan's spy agency -- and the government -- since the election of civilian leadership replacing the military-led regime in September. *Military and intelligence officials acknowledge they have long seen India as their primary enemy and Islamist extremists such as Lashkar as allies.* But now the ISI is in the midst of being revamped, and its ranks purged of those seen as too soft on Islamic militants.

That revamp and the Mumbai attacks are in turn putting pressure on the civilian leadership, which risks a backlash among the population -- and among elements of ISI and the military -- if it is too accommodating to India. "The ISI can make or break any regime in Pakistan," said retired Gen. Mirza Aslam Beg, a former army chief. "Don't fight the ISI."

The delicate politics of the Mumbai investigation have given the spy agency renewed sway just when the government was trying to limit its influence. A Western diplomat said the question now is what Pakistan will do with the evidence it is developing.

*The big fear in the West and India is a repeat of what happened after a 2001 attack on India's parliament, which led to the ban on Lashkar.* Top militant leaders were arrested only to be released months later. Lashkar and other groups continued to operate openly, even though formal ISI connections were scaled back or closed, the diplomat said.
*
"They've got the guys. They have the confessions. What do they do now?" the diplomat said. "We need to see that this is more than a show. We want to see the entire infrastructure of terror dismantled. There needs to be real prosecutions this time."*

A spokesman for new president Asif Ali Zardari, Farhatullah Babar, said Tuesday that he wasn't aware of the Pakistani investigation yet producing any links between Lashkar militants and the Mumbai attacks. "The Interior ministry has already stated that the government of Pakistan has not been furnished with any evidence," he said.

The Pakistani security official cautioned that the investigation is still in early stages and a more full picture could emerge once India decides to share more information. Pakistani authorities didn't have evidence that Lashkar was involved in the attacks before the militants' arrest in Kashmir, the security official said; they were captured based only on initial guidance from U.S and British authorities.

Vishnu Prakash, a spokesman for India's foreign ministry, said in a telephone interview that all India's evidence will be shared with Pakistan soon, when the investigation is complete. But Mr. Prakash expressed doubt Pakistan would act, based on what he said was its investigative track record: "Whenever actionable intelligence is given, our friends make sure it is neutralized, and then it cannot be acted upon," he said.

In the nearly four months since Mr. Zardari was elected, civilian and military leaders have been working to remake the role the ISI plays in the country's affairs, and take aim at an intelligence apparatus that diplomats and analysts suspect still hasn't fully severed links to extremist groups such as Lashkar.

New agency chief Lt. General Ahmed Shuja Pasha and army chief Gen. Ashfaq Kayani have flushed out top and mid-level hard-liners associated with the agency's past murky past dealings with terrorist organizations. Two deputies under Gen. Pasha's predecessor were removed and dozens of other lower-level officials sacked. The agency's political cell, which monitored the country's own politicians and parties and helped make it a political kingmaker, has been closed, its operatives dispersed through the agency.

In a televised remarks Tuesday, Pakistan's foreign minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said Pakistan offered to send a high-level delegation to New Delhi to help investigate the Mumbai attacks.

"Traditionally there has been a sort of disconnect between the political leadership and the leadership of the security establishment," said Mr. Babar, the spokesman for Mr. Zardari. Under the new regime, he said, "There is harmony."

There also have been increasing tensions. Mr. Zardari -- who replaced his wife, former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, as their party's candidate to lead the country after her assassination last year -- has faced frequent reminders that the military's step back from political control has its limits, and could be reversed.

Mr. Zardari initially offered to send Gen. Pasha himself to aid India's investigation into the Mumbai attacks, then had to rescind it when the military objected. He surprised the military this month by announcing Pakistan would never hit India with a first-strike nuclear attack.

Two months before his election, Mr. Zardari as party chief mounted an attempt to wrest the control of the ISI from the military and place it under a close political adviser. Word spread through a wedding attended by Pakistan's top army brass. "I was certainly not consulted," a grim-faced Gen. Kayani told another guest. Top army officials started working the phones. The next day, July 27, the government announced that its original notice had been "misinterpreted." It later withdrew the notice entirely.

ISI's headquarters, surrounded by manicured lawns and fountains, sits behind unmarked walls and armed checkpoints in the heart of Islamabad. Founded in 1948, the ISI moved into politics during Pakistan's military governments of the 1960s. It formally established its political cell under a civilian prime minister -- Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, father of Mr. Zardari's murdered wife. But over the years the spy chiefs -- the agency leadership is all active military officers -- often proved more loyal to the military than the government.

During the Soviet Union's occupation of neighboring Afghanistan in the 1980s, Pakistan's spies became partners with the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, which cultivated the same insurgent groups at the time. In the 1990s, the ISI helped fashion Lashkar into one of the most potent Islamic militant forces battling Indian troops in Kashmir.

The Indian government blamed the ISI for helping plot the 1993 Mumbai bombings, which killed hundreds of people. The agency and Pakistan government still deny ISI involvement. The ISI purged scores of extremist officers from its ranks. But Pakistan continued to support anti-India militants in Kashmir and the ISI maintained extensive links to the Taliban, according to Western and Indian security officials. Current and former ISI officials acknowledge the ISI maintained extensive links to the Taliban.

After the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks in the U.S., Pakistan's military-led government signed on as an ally in the global battle against Islamic terrorism, and the ISI helped coalition forces rout the Taliban. According to a former ISI officer, hundreds of ISI operatives involved with the Afghan cell were removed from ISI.

In recent years, Lashkar and other groups have turned to waging global violence against largely civilian targets that has put Pakistan under rising pressure from its allies and complicated peace negotiations with India. The groups also are striking targets within Pakistan. They have become, said the ISI official, "a monster we've created that we can't put back in the box."

Pakistan banned Lashkar under pressure from the U.S. and India in 2002 but did little to curtail its activities until earlier this month, when it enforced a new United Nations resolution banning its charitable front, Jamaat-ud-Dawa, and arrested senior leaders of both organizations.

The current revamp of the ISI began in September when President Zardari and Gen. Kayani replaced the agency's chief, Lt. General Nadeem Taj, who was seen as not aggressive enough toward militants. The new chief, Gen. Pasha, has overseen major offensives against al Qaeda-supported militants in Pakistan's tribal regions.


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## must7

Cool .. you post is missing the link.


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## omairhr

Flintlock said:


> Doesn't Pak have any media laws? How can they allow people to broadcast this crap?
> 
> This guy is making Pakistani media the laughing stock of the world.




Imagine (if you can) yourself as a Pakistani and listen to the crap Indian media throws up.... talk about laws!


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## haviZsultan

Made And Produced In India


India trains all sorts of peoples, from terrorists to militants to fanatics, to suit its national and international needs. But in order to cover up its nefarious activities it focuses on Islam, Muslims, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, Hajj, etc.; and blames its neighbors. Indian intelligence agencies are frustrated over the strong lobbying for highlighting Kashmir human rights violations at international forums by some NGOs in Europe and U.S., with the support of Indian human rights and peace activists. A huge lot of resources are being wasted on propaganda purposes by Indian government directly throughout the world.



By George N. Fernandez

Friday, 28 November 2008.

Ahmed Quraishi-Pakistan/Middle East politics, Iraq war, lebanon war, India Pakistan relations



MUMBAI, IndiaThe police investigation into the synchronized September 29 bombing attacks in Malegaon, a city in the west Indian state of Maharashtra, and Madosa, in the neighboring state of Gujarat, has rattled India's political establishment. The police have thus far arrested 11 people, while indicating that others, potentially many others, may yet be implicated in what they have termed an "extensive" Hindu-extremist terror network.


The arrested include a lieutenant colonel attached to the Indian Army's Military Intelligence Corps and a retired army major.



Two of the suspects, a Hindu sadhu (holy man) and a sadhvi (holy woman), have long-standing and extensive contacts with prominent politicians and businessmen. All of the alleged principals in the bombing plot have ties to one or more of India's major "Hindu-nationalist" [the term is used by the Anglo-American media; the real term should be terrorist] organizations: the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), the official opposition in India's parliament, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP, World Hindu Council), and the Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh or RSS.



Terrorism and Territory 



Armed with latest weapons, "democratic" India occupies Kashmir forcefully, killing thousands of Kashmiri Muslims. India tactfully annexed its neighbor Kashmir, heavily militarized it and killed the freedom fighting Kashmiris and also branded them as "terrorists" and "cross-border-terrorists". On top of that, India accuses Pakistan and Bangladesh of training "terrorists" against "innocent" India. 



India trains all sorts of peoples, from terrorists to militants to fanatics to suit its national and international needs. But in order to cover up its nefarious activities it focuses on Islam, Muslims, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, Hajj, etc. blames its neighbors and Indian intelligence agencies are frustrated over the strong lobbying for highlighting the Kashmir human rights violations at international forums by some NGO's working in Europe and USA with the support of Indian human rights and peace activists. A huge lot of resources are being wasted on propaganda purposes by Indian government directly throughout its missions and various NGOs and other secret agencies the world over, including the Arab World. But it makes strenuous efforts to see that Muslims in India and Kashmir do not make any anti-India propaganda by placing before the world the real situation in the country. 



The intelligence wings in India have marked the Indian Muslims into different categories. The major chunk of Muslims is described as "terrorists", spies and agents of Pakistan, Kashmir and Bangladesh. In order to create make-believe strings, they link the freedom fighting Kashmiris abroad and their media supporters to Pakistani intelligence in order to rob the Kashmiri cause of legitimacy and put Pakistan on the defensive.



Christian Killings in India is

Hindu Fundamentalism



Thousands of terrified Indian Christians are hiding in the forests of Orissa while Hindu fundamentalists burn their homes and kill them without any real reason.



What actually is happening in India is that mobs are targeting churches, orphanages and homes of Christians. Officially, more then two hundred people have now been reported dead and twenty of them were deliberately burned to death in the aftermath of the murder of Hindu leader Lakshmananada Saraswati [unofficial figures have reached 600]. The Christians in India are terrified they left their homes and are taking shelter in forests.



A Christian religious leader said that even in the forests they are not safe. This is not the first time that we are seeing religious hatred in India, in the past we can see examples of Muslims being targeted and the violence cannot be explained in words. There has been very little or no Anglo-American media coverage. The western media outlets are generous enough to give Indias domestic Hindu extremists the label of religious fundamentalism not terrorism.



In the state of Chhattisgarh, four sisters were attacked and abused. In Jharkhand, Hindu fundamentalists attacked a church and tried to "reconvert" the Christian faithful. Four churches have been damaged in Kerala, Tamil Nadu, and Madhya Pradesh. In New Delhi, two churches have been damaged, and another four attacked. In Punjab, three Christians have been detained by the police under false accusations. In Uttar Pradesh, three pastors have been beaten, together with the wife of one of them. In Uttarakhand, two Christians have been killed, a priest and his employee.



Anti-Sikh riots of 1984



Thousands of Sikhs were killed in a government-planned genocide. Government officials, politicians and police openly participated. Innocent people were burned alive, women and young girls raped. Yet, there has been no justice.



When Sikhs chose to be part of India, it was promised that they would have an autonomous state where they could learn their own language and go about their own religion. To date, three religions, Sikhism, Buddhism and Jainism continue to be forcibly listed as sects of Hinduism in the Indian constitution, so that their followers are not given their due rights.



2002 Gujarat violence



Hundreds of mosques and other Muslim shrines were damaged or destroyed and makeshift Hindu temples were installed in their place in some cases. In Ahmedabad, the dargah of the Sufi saint-poet Wali Gujarati in Shahibaug and the 16th century Gumte Masjid (mosque) in Isanpur were destroyed. The Muhafiz Khan Masjid at Gheekanta was ransacked. Police records list 298 dargahs, 205 mosques, 17 temples and three churches as damaged in the months of March and April, 2002.



According to Human Right Watch estimate, 2,500 Muslims were killed in anti-Muslim riots in Gujrt in 2002. Some 1,223 Muslims were reported missing, 3,548 injured, 1,919 women widowed and 2,606 children orphaned.



An international fact finding committee formed by experts from U.S., U.K., France, Germany and Sri Lanka reported that sexual violence was being used as a strategy for terrorizing women belonging to minority communities in the state.



MUMBAI November 26, 2008



India always prides itself on being a democracy, yet human rights are violated every single day. It is time to raise our voices, and show enough is enough. The Indian government has supported the killing of Dalits, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians and many other groups. November 26, 2008, Mumbai attack may be a reaction of killing of innocent people by Indian security forces.



Current security situation is the result of the governments' (past and present) poor handling of matters. Indian Government & Media will try to cash this attack and will start killing of innocent Muslims & minorities in India again. I am also confident on my prediction that India will blame Pakistan, ISI & Kashmiris. 



Making indiscriminate arrests of innocent Muslim youth, producing new "master minds" every 24 hours, presenting arrested persons before the media with faces covered with the traditional checkered headscarves  worn by Arabs and Muslims, producing sensational background information are all wrong signals that could damage the communal harmony and alienate the minorities.



The terrorism has not spilled over to India from Pakistan rather India is involved in criminal sets of terrorism in Pakistan. If you see the timings of Mumbai attack you will notice that on 26 November, 2008 Court martial proceedings started against a retired Lieutenant-General (Lt Gen (retd) S K Sahni) on corruption charges for allegedly procuring poor quality food items for troops fighting insurgency in Jammu and Kashmir four years ago.



Recent Mumbai attacks were preplanned, well organized and very professional. These were carried out by local Indian groups & Indian Intelligence agencies to convert the attention of Indian & world media from the court martial proceedings.



Please forward the email (see the evidence in the attached pictures one and two). The world should know how Hindus treat Muslims, Sikhs, Christians and other minorities in India.


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## nitesh

The link is

Pakistan's Probe Finds Local Links To Attacks On Mumbai - WSJ.com








Write to Matthew Rosenberg at matthew.rosenberg@wsj.com and Peter Wonacott at peter.wonacott@wsj.com


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## must7

We can see the American / Jew / Hindu influence in the article .... when in the picture it shows 1948 as the date of ISI's date of start .. cause I am sure ISI was created after the creation of RAW & it's terrorism especially in at that time East Pakistan.

Also from 1993 .. it shows Pakistan's support on WOT in 2001 .. in between it conveniently forgets to mention the Sanctions which USA had put against Pakistan for it's nuclear bombs way back in 1994 !

In this way the writers have not covered any point in how the USA grew ISI more stronger to take on RAW & KGB for their covert action against USSR, when USA did not have the balls to face the USSR in the first 3 years of Afghan Jehad and had to buy Russian weapons from PLO & Egypt to show their neutrality to USSR !


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## nitesh

Sorry but you are just blaming others. US had used you but it is you who has allowed to be used you should not have done it in first place.


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## robincrusoe

So, finally clues of Pakistan based elements are coming out. This is what India has been saying right from the beginning and now getting vindicated by Western media quoting Pakistan officials themselves. Lets see how it goes from here now.


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## BanglaBhoot

*The diplomatic row between India and Pakistan continues to deepen following the November terrorist attack as both countries send more troops to their borders.*

By David Montero

posted December 31, 2008 at 9:50 am EST

A war of words continues between India and Pakistan amid new evidence that a Pakistani militant group masterminded the terrorist attacks in Mumbai (formerly Bombay) last month. And as Pakistan continues to move troops to its eastern border with India, analysts say Pakistan may be too distracted to effectively fight militants at home.

This week, The Wall Street Journal reported new evidence linking Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba to the Mumbai attacks:

At least one top leader of militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba, or "Army of the Pure," captured in a raid earlier this month in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir, has confessed the group's involvement in the attack as India and the U.S. have alleged, according to a senior Pakistani security official....

Pakistani security officials say a top Lashkar commander, Zarar Shah, has admitted a role in the Mumbai attack during interrogation, according to the security official, who declined to be identified discussing the investigation. "He is singing," the security official said of Mr. Shah. The admission, the official said, is backed up by U.S. intercepts of a phone call between Mr. Shah and one of the attackers at the Taj Mahal Palace & Tower, the site of a 60-hour confrontation with Indian security forces....

[The revelation will increase] pressure on Pakistan to accept that the attacks, which left 171 dead in India, originated within its borders and to prosecute or extradite the suspects. That raises difficult and potentially destabilizing issues for the country's new civilian government, its military and the spy agency, Inter-Services Intelligence -- which is conducting interrogations of militants it once cultivated as partners.

Despite the revelation, "India on Wednesday said Pakistan was in 'denial' over the Mumbai attacks and refusing to acknowledge evidence linking the gunmen who carried out the assault with elements in Pakistan," according to Agence France-Presse (AFP).

[India's Home Minister P. Chidambaram] said the Pakistani father of the sole surviving gunman had confirmed to Pakistan television that his son was involved.

"If that is not evidence then what is?" Chidambaram said.

Amid the tension, both nations moved troops to their border, the Associated Press (AP) reports.

Pakistan claimed India had moved troops to their shared border Tuesday, days after Pakistan itself shifted soldiers to the frontier, but New Delhi insisted it had done nothing to add to tensions between the nuclear-armed countries....

Most observers say a fourth war between the countries is highly unlikely, not least because few can imagine a scenario where India would benefit from it. Any attack on Pakistan would destabilize the country's new civilian government and strengthen its militant fringe, they say.

Last week, "Pakistani intelligence officials said the country was shifting up to 20,000 troops from the Afghan border area  where they are among more than 100,000 fighting al-Qaida and Taliban militants  to the Indian frontier. They spoke on condition of anonymity." The AP reports.

Indian officials denied that their troop movements were in preparation for any sort of attack, calling them normal winter exercises, according to The News, an English-language newspaper in Pakistan.

Indian External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee denied on Tuesday mobilisation of Indian forces on Pakistan border. He was responding to [Pakistani] Foreign Minister Shah Mehmud Qureshi's proposal to India to de-activate forward bases and re-location of army units to peacetime positions to de-escalate tension in the region.

"We have not created any tension.... First there should be escalation from Indian side then the question of de-escalation will come. We have not escalated anything," he said. Mukherjee said the Indian army has made it clear that its military movements were a "normal winter exercise" and there was no question of such mobilization.

The focus on tensions with India is distracting Pakistan from its real threat: the rise of militancy along its border with Afghanistan, The Washington Post reports.

Many Pakistanis still view India as their real enemy and are far less concerned about the spread of radical Islam in their midst, while the country's powerful army appears to be more comfortable facing its conventional cross-border adversary to the east than waging a messy counterinsurgency campaign against fellow Muslims and Pakistanis on its own territory....

Even if the recent shift of troops away from the Afghan border and toward India proves largely a symbolic gesture, however, some analysts here say they worry a thinning of military ranks in the northwest could give Islamist forces a chance to become more entrenched in the conservative, impoverished region less than 100 miles from the capital.

Pakistani militant confesses to role in Mumbai attacks | csmonitor.com


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## Prodigy17

nitesh said:


> Sorry but you are just blaming others. US had used you but it is you who has allowed to be used you should not have done it in first place.



Excuse me, but are you any better than us then?????? *Now, it is you who is being used by US in this great game being played in the region*. Instead of lecturing us on what we should have done, why dont you do it yourself??????? Mumbai was the first direct result of your involvement in this dirty game but it may not be the last one. *I hope you develope the courage and fortitude to bear the strategic cost of your biggest political faux pas in the recent history* but i must admire the situation created to assure its digestion by the masses who will pay the real price inadvertently. Good luck, its your own choice.....


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

nitesh said:


> Sorry but you are just blaming others. US had used you but it is you who has allowed to be used you should not have done it in first place.



I think he is pointing out that it is hypocritical for the West to criticize ISI actions, when the West herself was complicit in utuilizing the ISI for similar actions when it suited their own interests. 

Not only that, but the US and India have both utilized proxy wars and covert support to proxies to destabilize and influence events in other nations, so its a case of the 'pot calling the kettle black'.

Anyway , back to the thread topic.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

If this stor is true, then it is good to hear, and a negation of all those who said that Pakistan would not pursue the case in Pakistan, nor crack down effectively on the JuD and LeT. 

Recent interviews from teh JuD leadership have clearly indicated that the Pakistani crackdown is having a severe impact on their operations.
*
"We have been badly affected by the Pakistan government's actions but we have the goodwill of the people. Even the Hindus and Christians have held demonstrations in Pakistan saying that we are not a terrorist organisation. The ban has ensured that we are left with no money but we have our network of 156 health care centres and ambulance services in 73 towns and cities spread across the country. The ban is illegal and we will very soon approach the UN with our case,'' stated Muntazir, adding that the JuD was also hopeful of securing the release of its leader Hafiz Saeed soon."

Muntazir went on to elaborate how the organisation was having to contend with the Pakistani authorities who, he claimed, had deployed men at all its schools and hospitals to prevent it from functioning. *

Defiant JuD to continue charity work despite ban-India-The Times of India


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## Prodigy17

robincrusoe said:


> So, finally clues of Pakistan based elements are coming out. This is what India has been saying right from the beginning and now getting vindicated by Western media quoting Pakistan officials themselves. Lets see how it goes from here now.



I would rather attribute it to inveterate hindustani desire to see it attributed to Pakistan, by hook or crook, even if the evidence has to crafted to prove the connection. Your these *westeren media have predictably failed to talk about the indian internal link which was so vital to this operation's success.* the intelligence, logistics, weapons, ammunition, explosives, detailed knowledge of the area..... was that all probably the result of intution by the terrorists????. 
*Do you remember your marine commandoes saying in the press conference that they were handicapped by the lack of knowledge of the interior of hotel???????? So if the terrorists came there for the first time, how did they manage to perform head and shoulders above your elite commandoes????? *
Does that sound some alarm bells???? well probably not.... because you are here only to carryout the assigned task i-e propaganda against Pakistan so i assume your western officials, so called/alleged Pakistani officials and yourself wont like to discuss the internal links. *It is interesting that this alleged Pakistani official was hell bent on proving the Pakistani link but has failed to investigate the suspect regarding the internal help provided to them by hindustani elements, isn't it a little strange for a Pakistani????????* 
Isnt it strange for you that this job was entirely done from outside without intelligence and everything that i mentioned, *yet the terrorists outclassed your elite of the elite in every sense of the word in tactics, combat and training?????* if that is the case, then instead of boasting about your armed forces, you should better go and ask your military and politicians about the purpose of maintaining that white elephant??????


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

I will caution everyone to wait until official confirmation is given. 

There have been way too many inaccurate 'sources' the media has used for its reports, not necessarily deliberately.


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## must7

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> I think he is pointing out that it is hypocritical for the West to criticize ISI actions, when the West herself was complicit in utuilizing the ISI for similar actions when it suited their own interests.
> 
> Not only that, but the US and India have both utilized proxy wars and covert support to proxies to destabilize and influence events in other nations, so its a case of the 'pot calling the kettle black'.
> 
> Anyway , back to the thread topic.



Agnostic Muslim .. I would have not been able to put it better than what you have presented.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Listen up - I do not want any more articles being posted in the thread unless they have anything new to add.

Way too many threads just become filled with articles reiterating the same thing.

This is a discussion forum, so use what little Grey matter you possess and DISCUSS things.


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## Communist

General AgNosTIc is right.... it is the media and particularly the Indian corporate fascist media which under the influence of USA based neo-liberal economic policy is just selling out sensational news to the hindu masses so that the media can easily increase their sale to either the viewership or readership and as the indian cow belt hindus are already obsessed with the nationalist sentiment which is essentially hindu, such sensational news have always been overemphasized. This is a part of a larger game plan, after the Middle East, USA has long been trying to establish its base in South Asia to counter communist China and has found India as a very flexible ally to use as a potential market for business and then throw. Now USA is trying to demonize Pakistan as it has demonized communists and Islam (for oil resources of the Middle East) through Hollywoody propaganda and project the whole Pakistani nation as a major threat to the stability of indian economic development so that india could provide a shelter to the Nato type USA forces. And it is working as the majority of indian hindus have been brainwashed by the renewed (after Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay type hindutva forces of the 19th century) nationalist chauvinist political institutions since the 1920's of the time of Savarkar and are hostile whether covertly or overtly to the Muslims. Thus it is a very complicated situation to as almost all aspects including , region, culture religion, politics as well as economy, are entangled with each other in a way that in order to understand one aspect one needs to know all others as an entire system. Now it is again the Hindutva forces which used the threat of Muslims vis-a-vis Pakistan to rally the 'other' contending voices such as Dalits and peripheral voices like the North Eastern mongoloid regions so that in terms of number game, their side can always have the upper hand since only in india approximately over 14 crore Muslims live and it is bigger in number than the whole population of Pakistan. So again the Hindutva forces cannot be so overt to spread its fascist propaganda keeping the aspect of electoral politics in india. But in some way, the corporate media whose main object is to do business only is helping them to consolidate the evil axis of power in india which if we ignore today, will definitely become another zionist oppressive israel to make the Muslims an extinct community. I am not going to legitimize the terror crimes of Mumbai, but it is again pertinent o know why such attacks if we are to believe in cause and effect theory. Why not in Bhutan or Nepal or China? Why not in Canada, Switzerland or in latin American countries? Even if we are bound to believe that Let wherever it is that does not matter is responsible according to Newton's third law every action has similar and opposite reaction, now which action's reaction was the Mumbai attack? Is it for the Indo-US nuke deal? Is it for the election of Kashmir? Is it for india' weak security? why? There are more questions than answers. 
And it is very ridiculous to believe that Pakistani civil society or any govt agency is involved in Mumbai terror crime. People who are already biased can believe that. I think, Pakistani defence or intelligence agencies have many other things to do than to sit idle for long and plan an attack in india and sponsor such foolish crimes. Itna waakt barbaat karne ka waakt mile, tab na?


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## HAIDER

ISI was created during Ayub Khan era and it was very weak. It caught real strength when it was used by CIA to organized Afghan war against soviets and turn to be most lethal.


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## voiceofaa

The alleged key suspect of Mumbai Attacks, Ajmal Kasab has no link to Pakistan, said the team of FBI after undertaking visit of Fareedkot in Pakistan.

According to the FBI team which visited Fareedkot, which India claims is the area of residence of Ajmal Kasab, no evidence could be collected from the area which could confirm the claim of Ajmal Kasabs being Pakistan national. 

Ajmal Kasab has no link to Pakistan national: FBI - GEO.tv
-----------------------------------------

I wonder this could shut up the Indian Media

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## tamir

This is coming from our Pakistani media. If the FBI confirms this news, it better shut up the Indian media. The Indian govt will have a lot of explaining to do as well.


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## leonblack08

But in Indian media its different news:

*Kasab is a Pakistani national, confirms FBI*

Kasab is a Pakistani national, confirms FBI


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

tamir said:


> This is coming from our Pakistani media. If the FBI confirms this news, it better shut up the Indian media. The Indian govt will have a lot of explaining to do as well.



Again - only media reports, and the investigation has not concluded, so it would be premature to come to any conclusions.


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## yarmook

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Again - only media reports, and the investigation has not concluded, so it would be premature to come to any conclusions.



But wasnt it Geo came up with breaking news of finding roots of Kasab and now same Geo is refuting own version which means latest News of no evidence of Kasab being Pakistani is more stronger than ealier claims by India and Geo as well.

Otherwise Geo would have stick to its version.


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## Captain03

Ajmal Kasab has no link to Pakistan national: FBI - GEO.tv
ISLAMABAD: The alleged key suspect of Mumbai Attacks, Ajmal Kasab has no link to Pakistan, said the team of FBI after undertaking visit of Fareedkot in Pakistan.

According to the FBI team which visited Fareedkot, which India claims is the area of residence of Ajmal Kasab, no evidence could be collected from the area which could confirm the claim of Ajmal Kasabs being Pakistan national.

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## EagleEyes

Liers they are.. they were, and are now quite.


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## voiceofaa

Captain03 said:


> Ajmal Kasab has no link to Pakistan national: FBI - GEO.tv
> ISLAMABAD: The alleged key suspect of Mumbai Attacks, Ajmal Kasab has no link to Pakistan, said the team of FBI after undertaking visit of Fareedkot in Pakistan.
> 
> According to the FBI team which visited Fareedkot, which India claims is the area of residence of Ajmal Kasab, no evidence could be collected from the area which could confirm the claim of Ajmal Kasabs being Pakistan national.



This is cheating, it was my thread yar


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## voiceofaa

Pakistani confesses to Mumbai attacks: official - Yahoo! News

which one (media ) to believe


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## voiceofaa

saadahmed should thank me


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## Tornado

Then He Might be a citizen of Mars..landed dirctly on Mumbai port with backpack of ammuniton, HGs and Kaleshnikovs in hand.


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## voiceofaa

Tornado said:


> Then He Might be a citizen of Mars..landed dirctly on Mumbai port with backpack of ammuniton, HGs and Kaleshnikovs in hand.



Still can't figure out how he got released from nepal jail, landed in Mumbai, successfully hide such serious ammunitions, taken over Taj, fought for 72hrs, and suddenly arrested


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## Captain03

voiceofaa said:


> This is cheating, it was my thread yar



lmao ek hi baath hai yaar


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## voiceofaa

Captain03 said:


> lmao ek hi baath hai yaar



Problem for me is ......


> Originally Posted by Captain03


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## Captain03

voiceofaa said:


> Problem for me is ......



lmao koi bari baath nahi hai
bass ek hi message hai ek hi sachahi


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## XYON

Can someone please tell me that why is the GoI so insistent on ONLY rubbing the alleged Ajmal Kasab name in the face of Pakistan while the name of other 9 dead suspects have not even been provided to either Pakistan or the media at large? Could it be that the GoI is afraid that its little Star Plus Production of the Mumbai drama will be exposed?

I would certainly like to know the names and nationalities (with proof) of the other 9 dead terror suspects and this element should most certainly be the part of the public trial of Ajmal Kasab if so ever such a trial even takes place in India!!


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

threads merged.


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## voiceofaa

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> threads merged.



thankoooooo


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## ju87

epool said:


> Can someone please tell me that why is the GoI so insistent on ONLY rubbing the alleged Ajmal Kasab name in the face of Pakistan while the name of other 9 dead suspects have not even been provided to either Pakistan or the media at large? Could it be that the GoI is afraid that its little Star Plus Production of the Mumbai drama will be exposed?
> 
> I would certainly like to know the names and nationalities (with proof) of the other 9 dead terror suspects and this element should most certainly be the part of the public trial of Ajmal Kasab if so ever such a trial even takes place in India!!



The Associated Press: India releases names, photos of Mumbai gunmen

The names and photos of all 9 have been released. I remember having seen the photos on CNN but wasn't able to find them online.


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## roopesh

I think Pakistan govt didnt manage the issue properly. They didnt admit he is pakistani even though he is. YES HE IS PAKISTANI so what ? No one believe that whole pakistan is filled with good ppl. Pakistan said he was pakistani then went o nepal ...nepal dont have records at all...meaning he is pakistani first right? 
Pakistan govt expected to declare "Country cant take the responsibility of the crime done by its citizens. India is free to execute him according to law. Kill him/hang him" If you handover the person we can investigate further" if you know anything else let us know we will investigate further".. ISSUE closed

Poor crisis management from Zardari I should say


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## roopesh

epool said:


> Can someone please tell me that why is the GoI so insistent on ONLY rubbing the alleged Ajmal Kasab name in the face of Pakistan while the name of other 9 dead suspects have not even been provided to either Pakistan or the media at large? Could it be that the GoI is afraid that its little Star Plus Production of the Mumbai drama will be exposed?
> 
> I would certainly like to know the names and nationalities (with proof) of the other 9 dead terror suspects and this element should most certainly be the part of the public trial of Ajmal Kasab if so ever such a trial even takes place in India!!



The terrors didnt enter India through any proper channels like airport or any ports. Ofcourse India might not have direct proof which country he really belongs to. (No copy of his passport etc). Now Ajmal being available what ever he tells need to be investigated. This is impossible without pakistan help. He told he is pakistani but pakistan govt didnt handle the issue properly. Ur won country ex prime said he is pakistani and his village closed for international media. What the point pak trying to say here. We cant give passport of 8-9 ppl. Pakistan should help us to find out who they are. India cant go for war for the reason that they are from pakistan. 

Govt failed to understand this


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## RescueRanger

devgupt said:


> Why so serious?



Ahem... Copyright Theft... Stealing one liners from Comic Super villains is really quite poor taste, but what can we expect from the nation that produced Bride and Prejudice and Partner 

Secondly to all our Indian visitors on this form, ZZH is a very learned man, sure he gets emotional but he has a deep understanding on the complex mechanism that is the Indian/Zionist plot to control the indo sub-continent and western Asia.

I don&#8217;t understand why you all get your panties in a twist when someone utters the truth, besides if he is what you say he is, why do so many Indian trolls post comments on his videos... Why So Jealous as a member previous posted?

At least he is getting air time, which is more then we can say for you all!

How many of you get quoted at Brookings? He does!


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## RescueRanger

daredevil said:


> For your perusal.



That my friend is a Friendship band, many wear one it's quite trendy. Not the same as a Rakhi!


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## RescueRanger

Flintlock said:


> Doesn't Pak have any media laws? How can they allow people to broadcast this crap?
> 
> This guy is making Pakistani media the laughing stock of the world.



Yeah, you are so right we should emulate our Indian counterparts when it comes to journalistic professionalism, an excellent example is in the clip bellow...

YouTube - Pakistan Ambassador Slapping Indian Media


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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

The Guardian says while India blames Pakistan for inaction after Mumbai attacks, it turns a blind eye to support of Tamil Tigers in India

LONDON: An article in The Guardian has drawn a parallel between Indias stance on Pakistan with regard to the Mumbai attacks and its own position on Tamil Tigers and their safe haven in the southern state of Tamil Nadu.

In the article titled Indias double standards, the writer says while India blames Pakistan for inaction after Mumbais terror attacks, it turns a blind eye to a dangerous terror organisation  the LTTE.

There should be no double standards in the global fight against terrorism, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh declared last week, according to the article. According to the article, the message was intended for Pakistan, but if Singh was concerned about double standards, he should look closer to home.

The article said that earlier in December, Sri Lankas state-run Sunday Observer published an interview with the countrys army chief, Sarath Fonseka, who, while expressing solidarity with India after the Mumbai attacks, criticised some Indian politicians for supporting the LTTE.

Fonseka had particularly used harsh words for the powerful Tamil Nadu politicians Vaiko Gopalsamy and P Nedumaran, calling them jokers and accusing them of being venal mouthpieces of the LTTE. He wondered why these men would support an organisation that had assassinated an Indian prime minister, and warned that they were a threat to Indias own integrity.

Within hours of the interviews publication, Tamil Nadus political establishment united in condemnation of General Fonseka. In a letter to the Indian prime minister, Vaiko demanded that New Delhi seek an apology from the president of Sri Lanka.

He wrote, In a democracy, army generals do not criticise leaders of a foreign country. Sensing trouble, Sri Lankas president issued a statement regretting General Fonsekas remarks, and last week the Sunday Observers editor Dinesh Weerawansa was summarily sacked. But all of this, far from diminishing General Fonsekas claims, only casts light on Indias own irresponsible role in the vortex of terror that threatens to consume Sri Lanka, the article in the Guardian said. It pointed out that the LTTE could not have grown without the support of successive state governments of Tamil Nadu in India. Founded in 1972, the LTTE has used Chennai as a safe haven, and their activities, as the Indian historian Ramachandra Guha wrote, were actively helped by the state government, with New Delhi turning an indulgent blind eye.

The 1987 pact signed by Rajiv Gandhi and JR Jayawardene put a temporary halt to this, and India agreed to send peacekeeping forces to Sri Lanka to help Colombo disarm the LTTE, an adventure so disastrous that one Indian journalist at the time called it Indias Vietnam. The Tamil Tigers retaliated by assassinating Rajiv Gandhi.

The article called the LTTE arguably the worlds most dangerous terrorist organisation. It is the only terrorist outfit to have successfully carried out assassinations of two heads of government. Its international cadres regularly extort money from Tamils situated in different countries.

It further said that the Tamil Tigers make Al Qaeda look amateurish. But because the LTTEs victims are not Western, it does not elicit the same kind of response that Al Qaeda does.

India banned the LTTE in 1992, but a report released by Janes Information Group last year identified Tamil Nadu as the principal source of LTTEs weapons; and Fonseka was not exaggerating when he said that the Indian politicians who support the LTTE are a threat to Indias own integrity much as the men who supported the Mumbai attackers are a threat to Pakistans.

The article accused New Delhi of consistently meddling in Sri Lankan affairs, stymieing Colombos efforts against an adversary that has used almost exclusively violent means to achieve its ends. The article said after the Mumbai attacks, Singh stated in emphatic terms that there can be no negotiations with terrorists, then, kowtowing to pressure from Tamil Nadu politicians, he agreed to send his foreign minister to Colombo to push the Sri Lankan government to do exactly that.

If this does not amount to double standards, what does? the article asked. app

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## XYON

roopesh said:


> The terrors didnt enter India through any proper channels like airport or any ports. Ofcourse India might not have direct proof which country he really belongs to. (No copy of his passport etc). Now Ajmal being available what ever he tells need to be investigated. This is impossible without pakistan help. He told he is pakistani but pakistan govt didnt handle the issue properly. Ur won country ex prime said he is pakistani and his village closed for international media. What the point pak trying to say here. We cant give passport of 8-9 ppl. Pakistan should help us to find out who they are. India cant go for war for the reason that they are from pakistan.
> 
> Govt failed to understand this



That is the VITAL opportunity your Government missed out on for mutual cooperation!! Instead of handling the situation properly, investigating the matter, coming up with some solid leads and then approaching the GoP for assistance and information into having this solved jointly to both countries benefit, your Prime Minister chose to play the blame game and tried to coerce Pakistan into submission by trying to put an international gun to our head instead shouting HANDS UP OR ELSE!!

Says more about the mindset of your NATION towards Pakistan then vice versa!

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## PakmanUSA

I'm sure the Goverment of Pakistan would not want to kill people for no reason in India. There are always people which may be from Pakistan which might on their own who would want to carry out these attacks. You can not blame the goverment of one country for something it's people decide to do on their own without goverment support or approval. Think about it, would Pakistan's Goverment want to start a war with India? I don't think so.


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## khawar DSS

it is heartening that FBI has cleared ISI but still it is denied by our foreign minister today any FBI team visiting the area.Secondly he denied about whereabouts of JeS cheif and hope no other minister tomorrow gives another version.Pakistan must now pursue FBI to reciprocate and investigate col PROHET in killing innocent PAKISTANIS in SAMJHOTA EXPRESS and him over to pakistan for trial as MUKHERJEEtoday uttered no treaty is required for handing over such criminals between india and pakistan. also FBIshould investigate who killed MR KERKREY.


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## billyssmail

Please read following news about OIL Game and Gwadar Port Destruction by India and Israel


ummatpublication.com/2008/12/31/story6.html


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## metalfalcon

India is trying its level best to Become Israel but Pakistan can never be Palestine.


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## ajpirzada

we dont need to worry. the only thing we need to do is to keep ourselves aware of the evil plans and keep our faith in Allah strong.


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## HAIDER

*ISLAMABAD: Pakistan denied reports Thursday that a militant arrested last month had confessed to involvement in the Mumbai attacks, saying no conclusions could be made until investigations are complete.
The Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday, citing unnamed officials, that authorities had obtained a confession from a key leader of the banned militant group Lashkar-i-Taiba, which India has blamed for the Mumbai attacks.*
The suspect, Zarar Shah, allegedly told investigators he had played a key role in the planning of the deadly attacks that left 172 dead  a story the unnamed security official said was backed up by US intercepts of phone calls.
But Pakistani interior ministry spokesman Shahidullah Baig told AFP: 'We have no such information. We don't accept that report.'
Pakistani police arrested Shah and another key LeT operative, Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, in the wake of the attacks as part of a series of raids against Jamaatud Dawa, widely seen as LeT's political wing.
Their arrests came after the United Nations Security Council classified Jamaatud Dawa as a terrorist organisation, obliging UN member states to freeze its assets and leading Islamabad to arrest several senior figures.
A senior government official told AFP Thursday that no conclusions could be drawn from Pakistan's investigations until India shares key evidence with Islamabad about the attacks.
The official, who asked not to be named, added that New Delhi has stated that its probe is ongoing.
Indian media reports have said that Lakhvi chose the team of 10 gunmen that perpetrated the attacks, while Shah allegedly arranged SIM cards and satellite phones used in the November 26-29 siege on India's financial capital.
When asked about the outcome of Pakistan's own investigation into the Mumbai attacks, foreign ministry spokesman Mohammad Sadiq said: 'We are currently engaged in the process of our own investigation.'
He added: 'We also await evidence from India to enable our own investigations to make progress.'
DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Pakistan says no confession in Mumbai probe


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## TruthSeeker

HAIDER said:


> *ISLAMABAD: Pakistan denied reports Thursday that a militant arrested last month had confessed to involvement in the Mumbai attacks, saying no conclusions could be made until investigations are complete.
> DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Pakistan says no confession in Mumbai probe*


*

This statement is somewhat equivocal, in that it does not flatly say that Shah hasn't talked, rather that the authorities are not ready to state a "conclusion" until their investigation is "complete". He may have said that he did A, B and C but the authorities are not taking that at face value without further corroboration.*


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## Omar1984

billyssmail said:


> Please read following news about OIL Game and Gwadar Port Destruction by India and Israel
> 
> 
> ummatpublication.com/2008/12/31/story6.html



The print is way too small.

India and Israel are trying really hard to get Gwadar port out of Pakistan. Go to this thread http://www.defence.pk/forums/national-political-issues/18479-bla-being-supported-israel.html


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## pkpatriotic

*Pakistan denies confession in Mumbai probe*
*Friday, January 02, 2009*

*ISLAMABAD: Pakistan denied reports on Thursday that a militant arrested last month had confessed to involvement in the Mumbai attacks, saying no conclusions could be made until investigations are complete.*

The Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday, citing unnamed officials, that authorities had obtained a confession from a key leader of the Lashkar-e-Taiba group. The suspect, Zarar Shah, allegedly told investigators that he had played a key role in the planning of the deadly attacks that left 172 people dead.

But Interior Ministry spokesman Shahidullah Baig told AFP: We have no such information. We dont accept that report. A senior government official told AFP on Thursday that no conclusions could be drawn from Pakistans investigations until India shares key evidence with Islamabad about the attacks.

The official, who asked not to be named, added that New Delhi had stated that its probe was ongoing. When asked about the outcome of the Pakistans own investigation into the Mumbai attacks, foreign ministry spokesman Mohammad Sadiq said: We are currently engaged in the process of our own investigation. He added: We also await evidence from India to enable our own investigations to make progress.


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## TruthSeeker

*US wants Mumbai suspects tried in Pakistan, not to call for extradition
*

By Anwar Iqbal, Dawn, 1/1/2008

WASHINGTON, Jan 1: The US administration is now urging Pakistan to ensure that those responsible for the Mumbai terror attacks are punished inside the country instead of being extradited to India, US sources told Dawn.

According to the sources, the Bush administration has informed the government of Pakistan that it would like it to initiate &#8220;prosecution with sufficient efforts to ensure conviction&#8221;.

This indicates a clear change in the US attitude which previously backed the Indian demand that some of the suspects be extradited to India. The change apparently has also been noticed in New Delhi where External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee told reporters on Thursday that the US pressure on Pakistan to act against the Mumbai perpetrators had &#8220;not produced tangible returns&#8221;.

Mr Mukherjee claimed that an FBI team currently in Pakistan had shared with Pakistani authorities &#8220;strong evidence&#8221; of Lashkar-e-Taiba&#8217;s involvement in the Mumbai attacks that left more than 170 dead and many more injured.

Mr Mukherjee insisted that an extradition treaty was not needed for handing over three suspects &#8212; Dawood Ibrahim, Jaish-e-Mohammad chief Maulana Masood Azhar and Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi of the Lashkar-e-Taiba that India says staged the Nov 26-29 attacks.

US officials had earlier supported the Indian demand but the change in their attitude followed a realisation in Washington that it would not be easy for the Pakistani government to extradite key Lashkar-e-Taiba leaders to India, sources said.

In their negotiations with US officials on this issue, the Pakistanis insisted that the extradition of Pakistani citizens to India &#8212; particularly when the two countries did not have an extradition treaty &#8212; would have unpredictable consequences for the government.

The Pakistanis argued that the resulting political instability would not only weaken the government but could also harm the war against the Taliban and Al Qaeda militants in Afghanistan as Pakistan played a key supporting role in this war.

The softening in US attitude is also linked to a crackdown in Pakistan on LeT and other militant groups. The move appears to have convinced Washington that Pakistan is serious about uprooting militant groups that use its territory for conducting attacks inside India and Afghanistan.

The Americans, who have stayed involved with the investigation, also noted with satisfaction that Pakistani authorities were seriously interrogating the suspects involved in the Mumbai attacks and looked determined to find out those responsible.

The New York Times, meanwhile, reported on Thursday that Pakistani authorities had obtained confessions from LeT members that they were involved in the Mumbai carnage.

The NYT quoted a Pakistani official as saying that the &#8220;most talkative&#8221; of the Lashkar leaders being interrogated is Zarar Shah, the group&#8217;s communications chief.

The Wall Street Journal had on Wednesday reported the news of Shah&#8217;s confession. NYT said Lakhvi is also said to be cooperating with investigators.

-------------------------------------


*
OPENED THREAD on Geopolitical and Strategic Issues forum area instead. Mods, please delete this one here. Thanks, TS*


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## TruthSeeker

*US wants Mumbai suspects tried in Pakistan, not to call for extradition
*

By Anwar Iqbal, Dawn, 1/1/2008

WASHINGTON, Jan 1: The US administration is now urging Pakistan to ensure that those responsible for the Mumbai terror attacks are punished inside the country instead of being extradited to India, US sources told Dawn.

According to the sources, the Bush administration has informed the government of Pakistan that it would like it to initiate prosecution with sufficient efforts to ensure conviction.

This indicates a clear change in the US attitude which previously backed the Indian demand that some of the suspects be extradited to India. The change apparently has also been noticed in New Delhi where External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee told reporters on Thursday that the US pressure on Pakistan to act against the Mumbai perpetrators had not produced tangible returns.

Mr Mukherjee claimed that an FBI team currently in Pakistan had shared with Pakistani authorities strong evidence of Lashkar-e-Taibas involvement in the Mumbai attacks that left more than 170 dead and many more injured.

Mr Mukherjee insisted that an extradition treaty was not needed for handing over three suspects  Dawood Ibrahim, Jaish-e-Mohammad chief Maulana Masood Azhar and Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi of the Lashkar-e-Taiba that India says staged the Nov 26-29 attacks.

US officials had earlier supported the Indian demand but the change in their attitude followed a realisation in Washington that it would not be easy for the Pakistani government to extradite key Lashkar-e-Taiba leaders to India, sources said.

In their negotiations with US officials on this issue, the Pakistanis insisted that the extradition of Pakistani citizens to India  particularly when the two countries did not have an extradition treaty  would have unpredictable consequences for the government.

The Pakistanis argued that the resulting political instability would not only weaken the government but could also harm the war against the Taliban and Al Qaeda militants in Afghanistan as Pakistan played a key supporting role in this war.

The softening in US attitude is also linked to a crackdown in Pakistan on LeT and other militant groups. The move appears to have convinced Washington that Pakistan is serious about uprooting militant groups that use its territory for conducting attacks inside India and Afghanistan.

The Americans, who have stayed involved with the investigation, also noted with satisfaction that Pakistani authorities were seriously interrogating the suspects involved in the Mumbai attacks and looked determined to find out those responsible.

The New York Times, meanwhile, reported on Thursday that Pakistani authorities had obtained confessions from LeT members that they were involved in the Mumbai carnage.

The NYT quoted a Pakistani official as saying that the most talkative of the Lashkar leaders being interrogated is Zarar Shah, the groups communications chief.

The Wall Street Journal had on Wednesday reported the news of Shahs confession. NYT said Lakhvi is also said to be cooperating with investigators.


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## maximus

The US should mind its own business...


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## Patriot

That's cool!If there are any Mumbai masterminds here they should be punished in Pakistan instead of _India_
Thanks


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## ajpirzada

Omar1984 said:


> The print is way too small.
> 
> India and Israel are trying really hard to get Gwadar port out of Pakistan. Go to this thread http://www.defence.pk/forums/national-political-issues/18479-bla-being-supported-israel.html



doin this is in the interest of not only india and israel but also US. it will be a strategic loss for these three countries if china gets access to arabian sea via gwadar. therefore dont expect registerin complaints with americans regarding indian involvement in destabalising pakistan will bear some gud results. we will have to do something ourselves if we want to deal with this situation. and for this we will have to deal with US presence in afghanistan otherwise all the results will be short term.

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## genmirajborgza786

Mumbai evidence given to Pakistan !

Mumbai evidence given to Pakistan 
India has handed over evidence to Pakistan linking the Mumbai attacks to "elements" in that country, Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee says. 

Gunmen stormed multiple locations in Mumbai (Bombay) in November. At least 173 people died in the attacks. 

Pakistan must act on the evidence and implement the bilateral commitments it has made to India, Mr Mukherjee said. 

In the past, Pakistan has accused India of blaming it for militant attacks without giving any proof. 

India again blamed Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) for the attacks. 

LeT and the Pakistani government have denied any involvement. 

Last month, Mr Mukherjee described militant groups in Pakistan as "the greatest danger to peace and security in the entire world". 

He accused Islamabad of "denial" and "shifting the blame" for the deadly Mumbai attacks. 

'Unpardonable crime' 

"We have today handed over to Pakistan evidence of the links with elements in Pakistan of the terrorists who attacked Mumbai on 26 November, 2008," Mr Mukherjee said. 


"What happened in Mumbai was an unpardonable crime," he said. 

"As far as the government of Pakistan is concerned, we ask only that it implement the bilateral commitments that it has made at the highest levels to India, and practices her international obligations. These are clear," he added. 

Mr Mukherjee said the evidence was handed over to the Pakistani high commissioner in Delhi by Indian Foreign Secretary Shiv Shankar Menon. 

According to a press release issued by the Indian ministry of external affairs, the evidence includes "material from the interrogation of Mohammad Ajmal Qasab" - the sole surviving gunman from Mumbai attacks who is in Indian custody. 

"Details of the terrorists' communication links with elements in Pakistan during the attack, recovered weapons and equipment, and data retrieved from recovered GPS and satellite phones" have also been handed over to Pakistan, the release says. 

Gunmen stormed two Mumbai (Bombay) hotels, a crowded railway station, a Jewish outreach centre and a popular restaurant on 26 November. 

The attacks lasted three days and left 173 people dead. 


Story from BBC NEWS:
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Mumbai evidence given to Pakistan

Published: 2009/01/05 05:39:39 GMT

© BBC MMIX

Print Sponsor

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## genmirajborgza786

Five Reasons Why India Can't 'Do A Gaza' On Pakistan
Los Estados Unidos
Five Reasons Why India Can't 'Do A Gaza' On Pakistan
Tunku Varadarajan, 01.05.09, 12:00 AM ET

Over the last week, many Americans (and Indians) have asked me why India does not "do a Gaza" on Pakistan, referring, of course, to an emulation of Israel's punitive use of force against Hamas-run Palestine, a territory from which rockets rain down on Israeli soil with reliable frequency (if not reliable destructiveness ... but that is not for want of Hamas intent).

My answer, given with the heavy heart that comes always with a painful grip on reality, is simple: India does not because it cannot.

Here are five reasons why:

1. India is not a military goliath in relation to Pakistan in the way Israel is to the Palestinian territories. India does not have the immunity, the confidence and the military free hand that result from an overwhelming military superiority over an opponent. Israel's foe is a non-sovereign entity that enjoys the most precarious form of self-governance. Pakistan, for all its dysfunction, is a proper country with a proper army, superior by far to the tin-pot Arab forces that Israel has had to combat over time. Pakistan has nukes, to boot. Any assault on Pakistani territory carries with it an apocalyptic risk for India. This is, in fact, Pakistan's trump card. (This explains, also, why Israel is determined to prevent the acquisition of nuclear weapons by Iran.)

2. Even if India could attack Pakistan without fear of nuclear retaliation, the rationale for "doing a Gaza" is, arguably, not fully present: Israel had been attacked consistently by the very force--Hamas--that was in political control of the territory from which the attacks occurred. By contrast, terrorist attacks on India, while originating in Pakistan, are not authored by the Pakistani government. India can-- and does--contend that Pakistan's government should shut down the terrorist training camps on Pakistani soil. (In this insistence, India has unequivocal support from Washington.) Yet only a consistent and demonstrable pattern of dereliction by Pakistani authorities-- which would need to be dereliction verging on complicity with the terrorists--would furnish India with sufficient grounds to hold the Pakistani state culpable. 

3. As our columnist, Karlyn Bowman, writes Israel enjoys impressive support from the American people, in contrast to the Palestinians. No other state--apart, perhaps, from Britain--evokes as much favor in American public opinion as does Israel. This is not merely the result of the much-vaunted "Israel lobby" (to use a label deployed by its detractors), but also because of the very real depth of cultural interpenetration between American and Israeli society. This fraternal feeling buys Israel an enviable immunity in the conduct of its strategic defense. India, by contrast--while considerably more admired and favored in American public opinion than Pakistan--enjoys scarcely a fraction of Israel's "pull" in Washington when it comes to questions of the use of force beyond its borders. 

4. Pakistan is strategically significant to the United States; the Palestinians are not. This gives Washington scant incentive to rein in the Israelis, but a major incentive to rein in any Indian impulse to strike at Pakistan. However justified the Indian anger against Pakistan over the recent invasion of Mumbai by Pakistani terrorists, the last thing that the U.S. wants right now is an attack--no matter how surgical--by India against Pakistan-based terror camps. This would almost certainly result in a wholesale shift of Pakistani troops away from their western, Afghan front toward the eastern boundary with India--and would leave the American Afghan campaign in some considerable disarray, at least in the short term. So Washington has asked for, and received, the gift of Indian patience. And although India recognizes that it is not wholly without options to mobilize quickly for punitive, surgical strikes in a "strategic space," it would--right now--settle for a trial of the accused terrorist leaders in U.S. courts. (Seven U.S. citizens were killed in Mumbai: Under U.S. law, those responsible--and this should include Pakistani intelligence masterminds--have to be brought to justice.)

5. My last, and meta-, point: Israel has the privilege of an international pariah to ignore international public opinion in its use of force against the Palestinians. A state with which few others have diplomatic relations can turn the tables on those that would anathematize it by saying, Hang diplomacy. India, by contrast, has no such luxury. It is a prisoner of its own global aspirations--and pretensions. 

Tunku Varadarajan, a professor at the Stern Business School at NYU and research fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institution, is opinions editor at Forbes.com, where he writes a weekly column.

Forbes.com - Magazine Article

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## genmirajborgza786

January 05, 2009 Monday Muharram 07, 1430 

India seeks US support for extradition demand

By Anwar Iqbal

WASHINGTON, Jan 4: The United States is once again being pushed into playing a major role in an India-Pakistan dispute  this time by New Delhi which wants Washington to persuade Islamabad to hand over Mumbai terror suspects.

India is sending a special emissary  Home Minister P. Chidambaram  to Washington this week as part of a global diplomatic offensive aimed at isolating Pakistan.

Washington is also sending its pointsman for South Asia, Assistant Secretary Richard Boucher, to the region for defusing tensions between the two nuclear neighbours.

Even before embarking upon his journey, Mr Chidambaram indicated a major change in Indias position. So far India seemed inclined to accept the Pakistani claim that if there was a Pakistani involvement, it was at the level of non-state actors.

But Mr Chidambaram now insists that the sophistication of the Mumbai attack points to the involvement of state actors in Pakistan.

Diplomatic observers in Washington believe that this change in Indias attitude is not necessarily linked to the irrefutable evidence of Pakistans involvement that Mr Chidambaram claims to have unearthed.

Instead, his statement aims at convincing Washington that it needs to back the Indian demand that Pakistan hand over the suspects to India.

Diplomatic observers say that initially, the Indians did receive some support but at a certain point the Americans stopped when they realised that pushing Pakistan beyond that point could be counter-productive.

The observers noted that while Pakistan was not yet out of trouble; it had succeeded in strongly conveying its message to the United States on two major points: no Pakistani state actor was involved in the Mumbai attacks and that no Pakistani government could afford to hand over Pakistani citizens to India. The political backlash of such an action would be so severe that no government could risk it.

Reports in the US and Indian media also indicate that the Pakistanis were unusually frank in telling the Americans how they would react if India launched air strikes inside Pakistan to destroy suspected terrorist targets.

One such report claims that this issue was discussed candidly between Chairman of US Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen and Pakistans Army chief Gen Ashfaq Kayani when the admiral visited Pakistan last month.

When asked to stand down for a bit, General Kayani showed Admiral Mullen a picture of an IAF Mirage-2000 locked in the sights of a Pakistani F-16. Admiral Mullen was informed that We will shoot down the next one that violates Pakistani airspace. The Indian Air Force has since then backed off, the report said.

Other media reports noted that in the meeting the Pakistanis also showed Admiral Mullen the evidence of Indias involvement in fomenting troubles in Fata and Balochistan.

The observers noted that the Pakistani establishment also used the media to convey its message. Reports published in US newspapers after the Mumbai attacks often quoted retired Pakistani generals as saying that if Pakistan feared defeat in a conventional war, it would not hesitate to use nuclear weapons.

Such statements  while condemned as sabre-rattling  did invoke the fear that an Indian attack on Pakistan could ultimately lead to a nuclear conflict in one of the worlds most populous region.

But observers in Washington say that the US reluctance to push Islamabad beyond a certain point also reflects Washingtons desire to seriously implement its policy of de-hyphenation, i.e. to pursue truly independent relations with both India and Pakistan.

Mr Boucher referred to this policy when defending the US decision to sign a nuclear deal with India, saying that signing any deal with India does not necessarily mean that the United States was obliged to reach a similar deal with Pakistan.

Similarly, when the Indians objected to granting the status of a major non-Nato ally to Pakistan or to selling F-16 aircraft, the Americans reminded them that their defence arrangements with Pakistan were independent from their friendship with India.

The policy underlines a realisation in Washington that both India and Pakistan are crucial for protecting US interests in South Asia and thats why observers believe that Washington will not do much to persuade Pakistan to hand over the Mumbai terror suspects to India.

The DAWN Media Group

India seeks US support for extradition demand -DAWN - Top Stories; January 05, 2009


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## genmirajborgza786

&#8216;State actors from Pakistan involved in attacks&#8217; 

NEW DELHI: The sophistication of the Mumbai attack points to the involvement of &#8216;state actors&#8217; in Pakistan, India&#8217;s Home Minister Palaniappan Chidambaram said on Sunday.
&#8216;Somebody who is familiar with intelligence and who is familiar with commando operations has directed this operation,&#8217; Chidambaram told NDTV news channel.
&#8216;And that cannot entirely be a non-state actor. In fact, I presume they are state actors or state-assisted actors unless the contrary is proved,&#8217; he added.
&#8216;It was too enormous a crime and required very elaborate planning, communication networks, financial backing. It was a very, very sophisticated operation.&#8217;
Chidambaram said he would travel to Washington this week with evidence linking Pakistan to the deadly Mumbai.
Chidambaram told newspapers in New Delhi he would take &#8216;overwhelming&#8217; and &#8216;unanswerable&#8217; proof to Washington for discussions with US officials.
&#8216;The evidence leads to the conclusion that the plot was hatched in Pakistan and as the operation in Mumbai was on, it was masterminded and controlled from Pakistan,&#8217; the Indian Express quoted Chidambaram as saying.
Indian officials said Chidambaram could meet top US Homeland Security officials and possibly also Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and members of President-elect Barack Obama&#8217;s transition team.
&#8216;It is a detailed dossier, supported by electronic evidence like transcripts and intercepts and interrogation reports,&#8217; Chidambaram said.
Police say Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, the sole Mumbai attacker arrested alive, has confessed to being a Pakistani national.
&#8216;Today we have Ajmal Kasab in our custody... his DNA is available... now there is a person in Faridkot village in Pakistan who says &#8216;I am his father...&#8217; his DNA is available in Pakistan,&#8217; Chidambaram said.
&#8216;So if somebody matches the DNA...we will know who is right and who is wrong.&#8217;

Chidambaram said India now wanted &#8216;cast iron guarantees&#8217; that no state or non-state actor would be allowed to use Pakistani soil or resources to attack India.
&#8216;The price they will pay if this (Mumbai incident) is repeated will be enormous,&#8217; Chidambaram said, in the sternest warning yet to Pakistan.
http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect...tea-actors-from-pakistan-linked-to-attacks-ha


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## mhacsan

These evidences merely based on the statements maid by Ajmal Kasab, nothing new, same crap as usual, i do not know what world these indians live in? who is this guy, could be indian, but statements narrated from him descent onto pakistan as he is pakistani, if any Indian on this forum, plz let me know is this is what general indain population think? is it not illusion than reality!

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## Omar1984

Why on earth would anyone believe what Ajmal Kasab says, didnt he say his name was something else...how many times did this ajmal change his name or maybe the indians changed his name so many times.

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## waraich66

There is no solid evidence ,other wise india could have attacked Pakistan having missile defence system arrow given by israel.

USA dont afford to lose Pakistan have very important strategic location.


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## Communist

hacsan said:


> These evidences merely based on the statements maid by Ajmal Kasab, nothing new, same crap as usual, i do not know what world these indians live in? who is this guy, could be indian, but statements narrated from him descent onto pakistan as he is pakistani, if any Indian on this forum, plz let me know is this is what general indain population think? is it not illusion than reality!



Brother as far as I know, the general indian population (as most of them have already been brainwashed by the hindu nationalist drive) has been forced to think whatever the govt's information and broadcast ministry says is indisputable and is therefore a universal truth. Also their ignorance about the role of media's house policy similarly takes media another as another authentic source. They are not living in a dream world, rather a blind world. The eyes are covered by lots of biases and wrong prejudices.

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## beetel

Communist said:


> Brother as far as I know, the general indian population (as most of them have already been brainwashed by the hindu nationalist drive) has been forced to think whatever the govt's information and broadcast ministry says is indisputable and is therefore a universal truth. Also their ignorance about the role of media's house policy similarly takes media another as another authentic source. They are not living in a dream world, rather a blind world. The eyes are covered by lots of biases and wrong prejudices.



all these hypothesis without knowing what has been given as evidence..?
prejudice are so powerful these days!!!!!

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## roopesh

The evidence is not what Ajmal told; Indian govt said they have record of voice over IP messages that is based in pakistan giving the instructions to these 10 terros. India have a record of that and now submitting it.

See guys if pakistan is really fighting against terrors and doesnt want its land for terror operations they will investigate about Inidans reports and bring the ppl under pakistan law and punish them. OR else if pakistan wants to prove the enimity regarding India is wat important to it and doenst care about the ppl who did this attack or they are not from pakistan then let it be
Accoding to ISLAM truth always wins; Who ever truthful will never nad shouldnt fail


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## Omar1984

roopesh said:


> The evidence is not what Ajmal told; Indian govt said they have record of voice over IP messages that is based in pakistan giving the instructions to these 10 terros. India have a record of that and now submitting it.
> 
> See guys if pakistan is really fighting against terrors and doesnt want its land for terror operations they will investigate about Inidans reports and bring the ppl under pakistan law and punish them. OR else if pakistan wants to prove the enimity regarding India is wat important to it and doenst care about the ppl who did this attack or they are not from pakistan then let it be
> Accoding to ISLAM truth always wins; Who ever truthful will never nad shouldnt fail



Well first Pakistan has to make sure all those materials India handed them are authentic and if it has links to Pakistan and then investigate.

And yea the Truth will always win


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## aimarraul

Ajmal Kasab are willing to say he is Chinese if you are keeping torturing him

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## Rajkumar

Communist said:


> Brother as far as I know, the general indian population (as most of them have already been brainwashed by the hindu nationalist drive) has been forced to think whatever the govt's information and broadcast ministry says is indisputable and is therefore a universal truth. Also their ignorance about the role of media's house policy similarly takes media another as another authentic source. They are not living in a dream world, rather a blind world. The eyes are covered by lots of biases and wrong prejudices.



do u think India is doing any thing that can be considered by you as "GOOD"?not necessarily in this context any thing that you can think of.


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## ajpirzada

great. now atleast GoP can move fwd with her own investigation. authenticity of the evidence should be confirmed and then steps should be taken to arrest ppl who were responsible for the attacks be in india or pakistan.


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## thorosius

Pakistan has said that there is no indication, in the handedover evidence by Hindustan, of involvement of Pakistani elements. (AAJ TV) 

Any clues of what exactly was sent? Parnab Bagloli only gave a vague reference that "Evidence has been handed over to Pakistan".


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## ajpirzada

i would say this news is bogus. its only been few hours since india handed over the evidence. too early to reach such kind of conclusion. there are only two possibilities:
either india didnt hand over all the evidence (phone calls, sat phone, voice recordings, GPS, etc),
or this news reported by AAJ tv is bogus..


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## BanglaBhoot

by Zafar Bangash

(Monday, January 5, 2009) 

The official Indian version of the November 2628 Mumbai attacks is well known. Ten members of Lashkar-e Taiba, a Pakistani paramilitary organization banned in 2005 as a terrorist organization, came in rubber boats  unnoticed by the Indian Navy that was conducting naval exercises in the area at the time  to attack Mumbai landmarks. They attacked several sites simultaneously before taking hostages in three: the Oberoi and Taj Mahal hotels and the Nariman House, a Jewish center. The standoff at the Taj Mahal hotel lasted three days. Reports about the number of attackers at the hotel varied: from two to five. Can five terrorists, no matter how well trained, keep several hundred professionally trained Indian commandos, police and naval personnel at bay for three days? While fighting these commandos, the terrorists were also able to keep an eye on guests in the 1,000-room hotel and even had time to torture some of them to death. Indian newspapers reported the torture story citing hospital sources in Mumbai. The attacks were quickly dubbed Indias 9/11 with obvious implications of what would follow.

Quite aside from the ludicrous claim of five terrorists fighting off hundreds of commandos for three days and ignoring the possibility that there may have been others involved, what has remained unexplained is, how 10 men in dinghy boats could sneak past the Indian Navy, the fourth largest in the world, in open sea? Were these terrorists allowed to come ashore to perpetrate the carnage in order to provide cover for others pursuing their own nefarious agendas? After all, US media reports have confirmed that more than a month earlier, the CIA station chief in Delhi had notified the head of Indias intelligence agency, Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), that terrorists would come from the sea to attack Mumbai, especially the Taj Mahal hotel. Why wasnt security beefed up at the hotel despite such specific warnings? Further, Indian bloggers (Amaresh Misra in Countercurrents.org, December 3, for instance) quoting eyewitnesses reported fairskinned and blonde gunmen both at the railway station and the Jewish center. Indian TV channels also quoted a Mumbai policeman seeing fairskinned gunmen at Nariman House before the story was blacked out. Who were these fairskinned gunmen? Israelis? If so, were they involved in a larger plot whose details have yet to be revealed?

There are other unanswered questions. Among the first casualties of the Mumbai attacks were three top officials of the Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS): Hemant Karkare, his deputy Vijay Salaskar and Ashok Kamte. Karkare had arrested several Indian military officers and Hindu priests for their involvement in the Malegaon attack of September 29 in which five persons were killed. Altogether 11 persons including a serving military officer, lieutenant colonel Srikant Prasad Purohit, were being interrogated by the ATS. Purohit was also implicated in the bombing of the Samjhota Express train in February 2007 in which 68 passengers, all of them Pakistanis, were killed. At that time, India had blamed Lashkar-e Taiba for the bombing. The ATS chief, Karkare, discovered that colonel Purohit had provided the RDX explosives used in the train attack. After these high profile arrests, Karkare was threatened by rightwing Hindu fascist organizations and political parties. Leading the attack were members of Shiv Sena, Abhinav Bharat, Sang Parivar and the opposition Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP). They denounced him as a traitor and accused him of pandering to Indian Muslims. Some of them even went so far as to say that regardless of what they do, Hindu nationalists cannot be wrong; they cannot be called terrorists since they are involved in retributive justice against Indias Muslims, whom they brand as traitors. A day before his death on November 26, Karkare had received a death threat. He was warned that if he did not stop his investigation against the Hindu priests and Indian army officers, he would be eliminated. Who were these anonymous callers?

After his death, Karkare was hailed as a hero by the same Hindu extremist groups and politicians. Narendra Modi, the chief minister of Gujrat state who had presided over the massacre of 3,000 Muslims in 2002, wanted to visit Karkares widow and offer her Rs. 10 million in compensation. She refused to meet him or accept the money. In another twist, the Indian Federal Minister for Minority Affairs, A.R. Antulay, cast doubts on the allegation that Pakistani terrorists had killed Karkare. The Times of India (December 17) quoted him as saying that there is more than what meets the eye, clearly hinting at others involvement. Antulay said, Karkare was investigating some cases [i.e., Malegaon blasts] and found that there are non-Muslims involved in acts of terrorism... Any person going to the roots of terror has always been the target. He went on, Superficially speaking they [terrorists] had no reason to kill Karkare. Whether he [Karkare] was [the] victim of terrorism or terrorism plus something, I do not know. Antulay was immediately denounced by the BJP and two days later, he was forced to resign.

The reaction from Pakistani rulers was quick: they condemned the attacks and offered help in the investigation. Thereafter, they displayed their traditional ineptitude by agreeing to the insulting demands of India. For instance, in a telephone conversation, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh demanded that Islamabad send the chief of Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) to Delhi; the Pakistani Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gailani promptly agreed. The next day, Indian newspapers carried bold headlines, Pakistan to send ISI chief on Manmohan Singhs summon. The Pakistan army top brass was furious; Gailani was admitting to Pakistans guilt without any proof and was accepting Indias over-lordship as if Pakistan were its colony.

Further disasters were in store. On the evening of November 28, a phone call, purportedly made by the Indian foreign minister to President Asif Ali Zardari was received by his staff. They handed the phone over to him without following the proper protocol. While Zardari started to express pleasantries, the caller launched into a tirade saying that if Indian demands were not promptly met, Pakistan would be taught a lesson. When the call ended, panic gripped Pakistan. The army and air force were put on alert and early the next morning, the air force chiefs personal plane was sent to fetch Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi who was in Delhi for talks with his Indian counterpart. Had Zardari and his staff been aware of proper protocol, they would not have accepted the phone call in the first place. The Indian foreign minister or even the prime minister has no business calling the president of Pakistan. Such phone calls are routed through the foreign office but who should educate the ignorant occupants of the presidency?

If it were a question of mere incompetence, that would be one thing. However, there appears to be complicity by some officials in implicating Pakistanis in the Mumbai attacks without any evidence, even while many Indians are questioning the version put out by their own government. For instance, on November 28, the UN Security Council placed a number of Pakistani organizations and individuals on the terrorist list, including Jamaat-ud Dawa, a charitable organization, branded as the parent group of Lashkar-e Taiba. The US is also trying to put General (retired) Hameed Gul, former chief of ISI, on the terrorist list. There are reports that Zardari, Gailani and the two Husains  Haqqani and Haroon, Pakistans ambassadors to the US and UN respectively  are coordinating with the British and the Americans to facilitate this. Pakistans traditional friend, China, which has veto power in the Security Council, expressed surprise at Pakistans acceptance of such demands without seeking proof.

On December 16, some 200 Hindu women in the Pakistani city of Hyderabad took out a procession denouncing the ban on Jamaat-ud Dawa. They said the organization was not anti-Hindu; as proof, they cited the financial help they had received from it for years. Further, during the 2005 earthquake in Pakistan, many UN and other aid organizations had found Jamaat-ud Dawa to be the most efficient Pakistani NGO in providing relief. As for General Gul, he is a target of the US because he is a strong critic of the war in Afghanistan. He has openly declared that it is the Afghans right to defend themselves against foreign aggressors.

Meanwhile, tension has escalated between India and Pakistan. The Indian Air Force has violated Pakistani airspace several times although Pakistani officials have downplayed their significance. Given Pakistans silence over US attacks on its territory, the Indians feel they can also do as they please. There have been Indian threats to bomb terrorist training camps in Pakistan and demands that Pakistan hand over 20 people wanted for questioning. One of the persons on the Indians list has been dead for seven years! Islamabads response has been meek. Zardari is also on record as saying that he considers himself half Indian, half Pakistani. With such a man as head of state, what can Pakistanis expect?

The identity of all the players behind the Mumbai carnage may never be known. The world of espionage is different from its depiction in James Bond movies. There are not only double or triple agents, today there are non-agents as well  people used by intelligence agencies without their realizing they are being manipulated. The Indians, Israelis and the Americans could all be involved in order to further their own agendas, one of which is clear: to target Pakistan, destabilize it and ultimately destroy it. Unfortunately, Pakistans rulers appear willing tools in this enterprise.

If there is any silver lining in this sordid drama, it is that the Muslims of India have largely been spared the kind of gruesome attacks that occurred after the Babri Mosque destruction by Hindu mobs in December 1992, or the Godhera train fire in 2002 that resulted in the slaughter of 3,000 Muslims in Gujrat. There have been sporadic attacks against Muslims, as in Chennai, where Hindu students beat to death a number of Muslim students while the Hindu police looked on (video footage of these have appeared on the internet) but overall, the Muslims of India have been spared massive attacks.

The Indian government, meanwhile, has moved quickly to pass oppressive laws restricting peoples rights, much the same way the US did in the aftermath of 9/11. Now, India will be able to deal with its numerous separatist insurgencies without having to face criticism about human rights violations. The other aspect is that India, the US and Israel are getting ready to declare Pakistans ISI a terrorist organization. India also wanted to attack Pakistan in the manner of the US attack on Afghanistan after 9/11 but the US stopped it. This is not because the US cares about Pakistan. Politically, repositioning troops to fight Indians on the eastern border instead of fighting Pakistanis on the inside would unite all Pakistanis against a common enemy. Western and Indian geo-strategic objectives do not want unity in Pakistan; they want to create divisions leading to a civil war and the eventual breakup of Pakistan. The Mumbai carnage is another opportunity to advance these objectives.

Home / World Wide / U.S.A. / Other dimensions of the Mumbai carnage - Media Monitors Network (MMN)


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## Silverfalcon

*India has completely lost it

They think they can be a superpower like USA, RUSSIA , and to become a superpower they have done their own little version of 9/11, which couldn't be more unsuccessful. 

But the truth is they can never be a superpower , they are not even remotely close to becoming a superpower.

India are '' wanabees ''*


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## koolio

MOD EDIT The evidence of written confession as a whole cannot be accepted as credible evidence if just this evidence alone is presented it will be thrown out of the court because it will be classed as unadmissable.


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## omairhr

India gives evidence NOW? So, what was all the hysteria about?


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## afriend

Silverfalcon said:


> *India has completely lost it
> 
> They think they can be a superpower like USA, RUSSIA , and to become a superpower they have done their own little version of 9/11, which couldn't be more unsuccessful.
> 
> But the truth is they can never be a superpower , they are not even remotely close to becoming a superpower.
> 
> India are '' wanabees ''*



Hey.. brother..!!! Why are you hating us this much???? Don't you think an ecnomically growing country would do such a stuipd think.. which can scare away potential investment to the country..!!! The whole world is supporting us and you guys are really talking like a frog in the welll..!!!


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## Imran Khan

OK if whole world spot you take that spot make a KARRY and eat.we never cooperate with India as we do before and India is free to do whats she want .now please go ahead.


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## Silverfalcon

afriend said:


> Hey.. brother..!!! Why are you hating us this much???? Don't you think an ecnomically growing country would do such a stuipd think.. which can scare away potential investment to the country..!!! The whole world is supporting us and you guys are really talking like a frog in the welll..!!!



*cause your leaders are idiots.

They think they can withstand small damage and in return they,ll get a huge reward.

in Other words they are doing this for the* _*greater good*_


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## afriend

imran khan said:


> OK if whole world spot you take that spot make a KARRY and eat.we never cooperate with India as we do before and India is free to do whats she want .now please go ahead.



Why wont you co-orprate with us..??? Can't you give peaceful dialogue a chance??? Well i agree.. that india shouldnt have accussed and asked pakistan to do something for which evidence is handed over NOW..!!!! But the denial also came swiftly from pakistan and i believe a coverup was also orchastrated by the ISI or the army..?? So if you think whatever comming from india is wrong, and whatever from pakistan is wrong.. when and how is this all going to end.. its only through these people to people contact like these wee can know more about each other..!!! Here too if your closing doors.. then God Bless this part of the world..!!!!


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## dabloo

Silverfalcon said:


> *cause your leaders are idiots.
> 
> They think they can withstand small damage and in return they,ll get a huge reward.
> 
> in Other words they are doing this for the* _*greater good*_



Yeh,

All the Indian leaders are idiots, because during partition all the wise minds went away to pakistan and now the whole world are feeling the difference.

Also for you lives of 180 peoples must be a small damage, well I can understand it, for you lifes is nothing more then a BS.

Thanks
Daboo

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## Thebignag

genmirajborgza786 said:


> Five Reasons Why India Can't 'Do A Gaza' On Pakistan
> Los Estados Unidos
> Five Reasons Why India Can't 'Do A Gaza' On Pakistan
> Tunku Varadarajan, 01.05.09, 12:00 AM ET
> 
> Over the last week, many Americans (and Indians) have asked me why India does not "do a Gaza" on Pakistan, referring, of course, to an emulation of Israel's punitive use of force against Hamas-run Palestine, a territory from which rockets rain down on Israeli soil with reliable frequency (if not reliable destructiveness ... but that is not for want of Hamas intent).
> 
> My answer, given with the heavy heart that comes always with a painful grip on reality, is simple: India does not because it cannot.
> 
> Here are five reasons why:
> 
> 1. India is not a military goliath in relation to Pakistan in the way Israel is to the Palestinian territories. India does not have the immunity, the confidence and the military free hand that result from an overwhelming military superiority over an opponent. Israel's foe is a non-sovereign entity that enjoys the most precarious form of self-governance. Pakistan, for all its dysfunction, is a proper country with a proper army, superior by far to the tin-pot Arab forces that Israel has had to combat over time. Pakistan has nukes, to boot. Any assault on Pakistani territory carries with it an apocalyptic risk for India. This is, in fact, Pakistan's trump card. (This explains, also, why Israel is determined to prevent the acquisition of nuclear weapons by Iran.)
> 
> 2. Even if India could attack Pakistan without fear of nuclear retaliation, the rationale for "doing a Gaza" is, arguably, not fully present: Israel had been attacked consistently by the very force--Hamas--that was in political control of the territory from which the attacks occurred. By contrast, terrorist attacks on India, while originating in Pakistan, are not authored by the Pakistani government. India can-- and does--contend that Pakistan's government should shut down the terrorist training camps on Pakistani soil. (In this insistence, India has unequivocal support from Washington.) Yet only a consistent and demonstrable pattern of dereliction by Pakistani authorities-- which would need to be dereliction verging on complicity with the terrorists--would furnish India with sufficient grounds to hold the Pakistani state culpable.
> 
> 3. As our columnist, Karlyn Bowman, writes Israel enjoys impressive support from the American people, in contrast to the Palestinians. No other state--apart, perhaps, from Britain--evokes as much favor in American public opinion as does Israel. This is not merely the result of the much-vaunted "Israel lobby" (to use a label deployed by its detractors), but also because of the very real depth of cultural interpenetration between American and Israeli society. This fraternal feeling buys Israel an enviable immunity in the conduct of its strategic defense. India, by contrast--while considerably more admired and favored in American public opinion than Pakistan--enjoys scarcely a fraction of Israel's "pull" in Washington when it comes to questions of the use of force beyond its borders.
> 
> 4. Pakistan is strategically significant to the United States; the Palestinians are not. This gives Washington scant incentive to rein in the Israelis, but a major incentive to rein in any Indian impulse to strike at Pakistan. However justified the Indian anger against Pakistan over the recent invasion of Mumbai by Pakistani terrorists, the last thing that the U.S. wants right now is an attack--no matter how surgical--by India against Pakistan-based terror camps. This would almost certainly result in a wholesale shift of Pakistani troops away from their western, Afghan front toward the eastern boundary with India--and would leave the American Afghan campaign in some considerable disarray, at least in the short term. So Washington has asked for, and received, the gift of Indian patience. And although India recognizes that it is not wholly without options to mobilize quickly for punitive, surgical strikes in a "strategic space," it would--right now--settle for a trial of the accused terrorist leaders in U.S. courts. (Seven U.S. citizens were killed in Mumbai: Under U.S. law, those responsible--and this should include Pakistani intelligence masterminds--have to be brought to justice.)
> 
> 5. My last, and meta-, point: Israel has the privilege of an international pariah to ignore international public opinion in its use of force against the Palestinians. A state with which few others have diplomatic relations can turn the tables on those that would anathematize it by saying, Hang diplomacy. India, by contrast, has no such luxury. It is a prisoner of its own global aspirations--and pretensions.
> 
> Tunku Varadarajan, a professor at the Stern Business School at NYU and research fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institution, is opinions editor at Forbes.com, where he writes a weekly column.





COULD IT ALSO BE A POINT THAT INDIA DO NOT WANT RATHER THAN CAN'T ...


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## Vinod2070

Now the evidence is there with Pakistan. Let's see if they take some meaningful action or repeat the same old music of insufficient evidence and cover-ups.


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## Imran Khan

Vinod2070 said:


> Now the evidence is there with Pakistan. Let's see if they take some meaningful action or repeat the same old music of insufficient evidence and cover-ups.



please yaar don't rely on us we must sing old song because we love old songs.we just say india is free what she wana say and do we don't care.

and already india blame us and say too much abut us on world forums now why we take action??


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## robincrusoe

Vinod2070 said:


> Now the evidence is there with Pakistan. Let's see if they take some meaningful action or repeat the same old music of insufficient evidence and cover-ups.



The coverup has been done already like the disappearance of Kasab's parents and presence of intelligence people in Faridkot to erase the evidence. Nothing is going to come out of this. Anyways, GoI has finally given the evidence and that is all matters, if nothing comes out of it, I see GoI taking some stern actions.


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## IceCold

Vinod2070 said:


> Now the evidence is there with Pakistan. Let's see if they take some meaningful action or repeat the same old music of insufficient evidence and cover-ups.



Dont flatter yourself vinod, evidence according to who, dont you think Pakistan reserves the right to varify the credibility of these evidence.

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## Vinod2070

IceCold said:


> Dont flatter yourself vinod, evidence according to who, dont you think Pakistan reserves the right to varify the credibility of these evidence.



They do. That is what we are waiting for.

The attitude with which they approach the evidence is what matters. I don't have high hopes but let's give it a shot.


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## IceCold

Vinod2070 said:


> They do. That is what we are waiting for.
> 
> The attitude with which they approach the evidence is what matters. I* don't have high hopes* but let's give it a shot.



You have already made up your mind, havent you? and majority of Indians including your very own government shares the same opinion that Pakistan isnt serious.But in any case Pakistan will definately look into the matter and investigate on its own to see how much credibility lies in this evidence which India at first was reluctant to share as a result of which raised alot of doubts about its authentication.


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## Geromix

IceCold said:


> Dont flatter yourself vinod, evidence according to who, dont you think Pakistan reserves the right to varify the credibility of these evidence.



Of course Pakistan should verify whether this is credible or not.

But if it is found to be the truth?


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## Vinod2070

IceCold said:


> *You have already made up your mind, havent you? *and majority of Indians including your very own government shares the same opinion that Pakistan isnt serious.But in any case Pakistan will definately look into the matter and investigate on its own to see how much credibility lies in this evidence which India at first was reluctant to share as a result of which raised alot of doubts about its authentication.



Not really. As I said, we need to wait and watch. The past experience is not good and that is always a factor but I am sure one day the tide will turn.

I hope Pakistan treats the evidence seriously and does not simple look for ways to dismiss it. That is the attitude of most people here. You are the only Pakistani member to even talk of looking at the evidence seriously.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Vinod2070 said:


> Now the evidence is there with Pakistan. Let's see if they take some meaningful action or repeat the same old music of insufficient evidence and cover-ups.



As Ice said, the evidence has to be vetted, and it has to be determined whether it is sufficient for prosecuting through the courts. Some of the alleged perpetrators, supposedly the masterminds, have already been arrested.

Assuming the evidence is everything the Indians say it is, it will then be up to the Pakistani legal system to convict these people, in light of whatever evidence is presented.

I think that Hafiz Saeed will likely walk free, perhaps with some restrictions, since I haven't heard of any evidence implicating him in the Mumbai attacks.

The GoP wil have done its job if it takes Lakhvi, Zarrar Shah and any others implicated to court. My opinion is that the GoP should take the alleged perpetrators to court even if the evidence from India does not appear enough to convict in a court of law, because then we can wash our hands off it and let the justice system figure it out.

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## robincrusoe

Geromix said:


> Of course Pakistan should verify whether this is credible or not.
> 
> But if it is found to be the truth?



If it is found to be truth, the culprits will be punished and will be jailed where they will be provided with cell phones, TV and other luxuries so that they can function from the jail just like Omar Saeed Sheikh (the killer of Daniel Pearl). Omar Saeed Sheik's case has been postponed at least 100 times (I'm not kidding) by the court.

Just google to find the information that I'm talking about.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

robincrusoe said:


> If it is found to be truth, the culprits will be punished and will be jailed where they will be provided with cell phones, TV and other luxuries so that they can function from the jail just like Omar Saeed Sheikh (the killer of Daniel Pearl). Omar Saeed Sheik's case has been postponed at least 100 times (I'm not kidding) by the court.
> 
> Just google to find the information that I'm talking about.



That sort of thing happens with almost every powerful individual with resources and money at their disposal who goes through the court system.

It isn't restricted to people like Omar Saeed.

The institutions and systems will evolve and mature with time, just as they will in India, where the legal and law enforcement institutions are also plagued with rampant corruption and inefficiencies.


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## Vinod2070

^^ I don't think that would be the only expectation from Pakistan (assuming that Pakistan does only these things).

It is not only the perpetrators of this massacre that need to be punished but further tragedies of this nature need to be stopped as well.

There is news of Nadim Taj being the main planner of this attack. Some ex-SOF guy planning and training the attacks etc. The net has to be cast wide to cover all perpetrators and not just against whom India has been able to present evidence.

That is if Pakistan is really serious about the whole thing.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

> There is news of Nadim Taj being the main planner of this attack. Some ex-SOF guy planning and training the attacks etc. The net has to be cast wide to cover all perpetrators and not just against whom India has been able to present evidence.



There is only baseless speculation here, as such there is no basis or need for casting a 'wider net'.

The GoP can only work within her constitution - putting the alleged perpetrators through a trial will be the most it can do in terms of the Mumbai attacks.

As for preventing future attacks, it is not humanly possible from a developing country as large as Pakistan, with developing and inefficient institutions. Taking action against banned groups such as JuD and LeT is what Pakistan can do to some extent, and it has, as evidenced by statements from the JuD and LeT's own leadership that their operations have been severely restricted.

Even Israel, with is mammoth operation, control and blockade of significantly smaller territory has said that it will not be able to stop attacks on Israel completely.

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## ajpirzada

imran khan said:


> please yaar don't rely on us we must sing old song because we love old songs.we just say india is free what she wana say and do we don't care.
> 
> and already india blame us and say too much abut us on world forums now why we take action??



calm down brother. if we think we are not involved then lets study the evidence and prove wat we say. and if ppl from pak are found involved then they should be taken to court coz killing of civillians can never be justified. will be gud for both pakistan and india. and after we have dont wat we possibly can, if india complains we will have a reason to show them the middle fingure.

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## Communist

Vinod2070 said:


> They do. That is what we are waiting for.



Yes Pakistan is a sovereign country, it has the right to examine the evidences whatever india provides as also it has the right to punish (if there is anyone in Pakistan involved in the terror acts in india, which indian leaders claim) the accused persons according to the Pakistani law. Though it is offtopic, but at the same time it is very relevant to discuss that just after the mumbai incident, indian leaders and media houses started accusing Pakistan in an insulting way. Many derogatory headlines and comments were published in indian english and vernacular news papers and the indian govt went to the extent giving Pakistan two demarches, demanding a number of accused persons, which is insulting for any sovereign country and thereby breaking up the normal relation once again. India could have provided the evidences without doing such a big drama. Such a melodramatic country india is that it always seeks extra attention and sympathy from the world while trying to pose itself as a big brother of south Asia. 

Just after the Mumbai incident what indian leaders did was like this >>

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## ajpirzada

afriend said:


> Why wont you co-orprate with us..??? Can't you give peaceful dialogue a chance??? Well i agree.. that india shouldnt have accussed and asked pakistan to do something for which evidence is handed over NOW..!!!! But the denial also came swiftly from pakistan and i believe a coverup was also orchastrated by the ISI or the army..?? So if you think whatever comming from india is wrong, and whatever from pakistan is wrong.. when and how is this all going to end.. its only through these people to people contact like these wee can know more about each other..!!! Here too if your closing doors.. then God Bless this part of the world..!!!!



i agree with u that we need to work together. but for that the first thing we need is to build trust coz otherwise u wont believe in wat we say and same will go for us.


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## Neo

Geromix said:


> Of course Pakistan should verify whether this is credible or not.
> 
> But if it is found to be the truth?



Here's your answer:

*Pakistan will act if evidence is credible: Gilani ​*
Monday, 05 Jan, 2009

​
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan said on Monday it was reviewing a dossier India handed over regarding the deadly Mumbai attacks in November, which triggered fresh tensions between the two rival countries, AFP reported.

Meanwhile,* Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said the government remained committed to punishing Pakistani nationals accused of taking part in the Mumbai attacks if credible evidence is given against them.*

In Islamabad, a foreign ministry spokesman confirmed that Pakistans High Commissioner to India had received the file in New Delhi on Monday and had sent it to authorities back home.
The material has been received in Pakistan now and is being examined by concerned authorities, the spokesman said.

*It is our duty, my duty to examine the dossier carefully, understand it and be truthful to myself, to my country and the neighbourhood, Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi told Reuters.*

Gilani made the comments during talks with Richard Boucher, the US assistant secretary of state for South and Central Asia, who arrived in Islamabad early Monday in a bid to defuse simmering tensions between Pakistan and India.
Gilani spoke of Pakistans persistent efforts to defuse current tensions with India, and the *governments commitment to take action against any Pakistani national in case credible evidence is provided,* his office said.
Pakistan has repeatedly said that its own investigation of the attacks could move forward once India shared evidence with Islamabad.

The US ambassador to India, David C. Mulford, told reporters in New Delhi that his country had helped India gather evidence and that the US will pursue this matter to its conclusion.

*Prime Ministers Adviser on Interior Rehman Malik said, however, we will not take pressure from anyone.
We are a sovereign state, and we will act according to our law, Malik said. Nobody can put pressure on us.*


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## Silverfalcon

My leaders are greedy

Yours are idiots and inhumane.


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## shrivatsa

Silverfalcon said:


> My leaders are greedy
> 
> Yours are idiots and inhumane.



They are not idiots ,they may be corrupt but when it is the question of the nation they do what is best for us.


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## Silverfalcon

shrivatsa said:


> They are not idiots ,they may be corrupt but when it is the question of the nation they do what is best for us.



They do what is best for themselves.

This whole Mumbai thing, they told you guys that People that had linked with Pakistan did this.

Wonder why they did it ?

Cause they could save their own azz, they know the only thing that will unite india would be to say something ill about Pakistan.


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## roadrunner

Wonder if it has the truth serum results in it.


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## Vinod2070

Also if the "kalava" has been put in the dossier or not!


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## shrivatsa

Silverfalcon said:


> They do what is best for themselves.
> 
> This whole Mumbai thing, they told you guys that People that had linked with Pakistan did this.
> 
> Wonder why they did it ?
> 
> Cause they could save their own azz, they know the only thing that will unite india would be to say something ill about Pakistan.



No they said that because killers were from Pakistan,we don't need barbaric incidents to unite us that will be superficial.

Not people linked with Pakistan but Pakistani "non state actors" did it.


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## roadrunner

Vinod2070 said:


> Also if the "kalava" has been put in the dossier or not!



Lol, I'm 105% sure there'll be no mention of the Kalava


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## robincrusoe

roadrunner said:


> Wonder if it has the truth serum results in it.



Truth serum is to know what the suspect knows but not as an evidence.


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## Vinod2070

roadrunner said:


> Lol, I'm 105% sure there'll be no mention of the Kalava



You should raise hell over this!

And not just on some forums.


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## Silverfalcon

shrivatsa said:


> No they said that because killers were from Pakistan,we don't need barbaric incidents to unite us that will be superficial.
> 
> Not people linked with Pakistan but Pakistani "non state actors" did it.



The incident itself was not to unite you.

But BJP wanted to come into power and they wanted to improve their image.
and at the same time they wanted to remove congress from the government.

So that is the reason they did an attack on Mumbai.

So if congress had to stay in government, they needed support from the people. and while knowing that BJP had an important role in the attacks, they blamed Pakistan just so they could stay in goverment.


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## shrivatsa

Vinod2070 said:


> You should raise hell over this!
> 
> And not just on some forums.



And u forgot his real name "AMAR SINGH"


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## Captain03

hmm they should release the evidence in public to see if its worst than "kasab's letter"


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## BanglaBhoot

*Pakistan Agencies Aided Mumbai Attack, Singh Says *

Jan. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Official agencies in Pakistan supported the militants who attacked Mumbai in November, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said, making Indias sharpest accusation yet that Pakistans government was involved.

There is enough evidence to show that, given the sophistication and military precision of the attack it must have had the support of some official agencies in Pakistan, Singh told chief ministers of Indias states today at a meeting on counter-terrorism.

India yesterday gave Pakistan and other governments what it said was evidence linking Pakistani elements to the Nov. 26- 29 attack on Mumbai, increasing pressure on its neighbor to act against the militant group India has blamed for the assault. It is unclear how long Pakistan will need to judge the evidence and decide on any action, Farhatullah Babar, a spokesman for Pakistans president, told Indias NDTV television today.

The comments by Singh are the most explicit accusation so far of a role by Pakistani official agencies, said Ajai Sahni, executive director of the Institute for Conflict Management, a New Delhi-based research group. They come as India appealed this week to foreign governments, including Pakistani allies such as the U.S. and China, to press Pakistan to help bring the plotters behind the attacks to justice.

Lashkar-e-Taiba

The Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba carried out the attacks in Indias financial hub that killed 164 people, Singh said. Pakistan has been using terrorism as an instrument of state policy, he said.

In the six-decade Indian-Pakistani dispute over Kashmir, Pakistans Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate gave arms and logistical help to Lashkar-e-Taiba for attacks on India in the 1990s, Indian and U.S. officials and independent Pakistani analysts say. While Pakistan formally banned Lashkar and several other jihadist groups in 2002, it never prosecuted their leaders, who remained active, according to Hassan Abbas, a former senior Pakistani police official who is now a researcher on Pakistani affairs at Harvard University.

India has demanded that Pakistan dismantle Lashkar and other militant networks on its territory whose attacks have increased tensions between the neighbors, and interrupted a five-year-old peace process.

Indian Politics

Singhs government will seek re-election in May amid public demands for improved security. At least 1,500 people were killed in attacks last year. India has been combating rebels in the state of Jammu and Kashmir and Maoist guerrillas in the southern and eastern regions.

Today, even as Pakistan engages in whipping up war hysteria, our nation remains steadfastly united, Singh said. If anything, the process of national consolidation is becoming stronger.

Singh said Pakistanis have infiltrated terrorists into India through Nepal and Bangladesh as well as the India-Pakistan cease-fire line in Kashmir, which forms the de-facto border between the nuclear-armed neighbors.

During the past year, we faced a severe challenge from terrorist groups operating from outside the country, Singh said. Many of them act in association with hostile intelligence agencies in these countries, he said without identifying them.

War Unaffordable

Singh repeated his governments commitment to confront Pakistan through diplomacy rather than armed force. With the global economic crisis slowing growth in both India and Pakistan, neither can afford a military clash, officials say.

The U.S. fears a conflict would scuttle Pakistans attempts to contain the Taliban insurgency along its border with Afghanistan and has urged restraint on both India and Pakistan.

We must convince the world community that states that use terrorism as an instrument of foreign policy must be isolated and compelled to abandon such tactics, Singh said.

Terrorism, political extremism and insurgency are major challenges to Indias internal security.

Leftwing extremism is primarily indigenous and home grown, Singh said. Terrorism, on the other hand, is largely sponsored from outside the country, mainly Pakistan.

Singh called for a strengthening of intelligence and more training and equipment for security forces. Both the center and the state governments must attend to this national task with speed, efficiency and utmost dedication. 

Bloomberg.com: Asia


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## Pk_Thunder

*Pak to carry out detailed probe on Mumbai evidence*​
Updated at: 1542 PST, Tuesday, January 06, 2009




Pak to carry out detailed probe on Mumbai evidence ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani called on President Asif Ali Zardari here at the Aiwan-e-Sadr on Tuesday.

President Zardari and Premier Gilani discussed Indo-Pak tension and steps taken by Pakistan to de-escalate the situation. According to sources, Zardari and Gilani agreed to carry out a credible investigation of the evidence provided by India on Mumbai attacks. The two leaders said that strict action would be taken against any group found involved in Mumbai carnage.

The president said that Pakistan condemned state sponsored terrorism in all its forms and manifestations. He said Pakistans armed forces were ready to foil any attempt of misadventure. President Zardari termed statement of Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh baseless and 'unfortunate' saying India wanted to gain some other motives from such propaganda.

The two leaders exchanged views on the existing law and order situation in the country, political situation and other national matte


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## dabloo

Well I dont't see any hope, Pakistan will just say the evidence are not sufficient, FINISHED.

Dabloo


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## roadrunner

Why is Pakistan going to agree to evidence that is not conclusive? 

Would you arrest someone without evidence, and convict them? 

If the evidence is so strong, India could share it with Interpol who could then announce to the WORLD that the evidence is strong enough. 

Or just share it with some non aligned players.

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## Pk_Thunder

@ Dabloo,

Yes indeed Pakistan will say no if the evidence provided doesn't satisfy us.


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## mhacsan

writing a love letter, then call it an evidence.

conceived by ISI
poetry by State terror policy
poet Pakistan

evidence enough, hang them

this is not a jungle law Indians, wake up, stop hiding ur weaknesses by shifitng blame onto others.


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## rubyjackass

shrivatsa said:


> And u forgot his real name "AMAR SINGH"




Well reminded...


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## Neo

*Pakistan 'emphatically' rejects Manmohan accusations as 'propaganda offensive' ​* 
ISLAMABAD (updated on: January 06, 2009, 17:25 PST): Pakistan on Tuesday rejected Indian claims that 'official agencies' here backed the Mumbai attacks, saying the accusations were irresponsible and a sure way to raise tensions between the neighbours.

Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh earlier said "some official agencies" in Pakistan had supported the gunmen who laid siege to Mumbai in November, and accused Islamabad of using terrorism as an "instrument of state policy."

Pakistan's foreign ministry issued a strong statement in response, accusing India of embarking on an unacceptable "propaganda offensive" and calling such an approach "fraught with grave risks."

"The government of Pakistan emphatically rejects the unfortunate allegations levelled against Pakistan by the prime minister of India in New Delhi today," the statement said.

"Instead of responding positively to Pakistan's offer of cooperation and constructive proposals, India has chosen to embark on a propaganda offensive.

"It will not only ratchet up tensions but occlude facts and destroy all prospects of serious and objective investigations into the Mumbai attacks."

Singh said the attacks were "clearly carried out" by Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT).

The Indian premier said that given the level of sophistication and planning involved in staging the attacks, the gunmen must have had "the support of some official agencies in Pakistan."

But Islamabad strongly rejected that claim.

"Vilifying Pakistan or for that matter any of its state institutions on this score is unwarranted and unacceptable. This is a sure way to close avenues of cooperation in combating this menace," the foreign ministry said.

"Pakistan is a victim of terrorism.... Pakistan is not a state sponsor of terrorism," it added.

"Pakistan would not allow its soil to be used for acts of terrorism at home and abroad."


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## Rajkumar

i wanna ask a question from pakistanis
what evidence do you think is good enough for proving something eg kasab is Pakistani,how should it be proven by Indians? what kind of evidence will be called "full proof"?


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## notorious_eagle

Rajkumar said:


> i wanna ask a question from pakistanis
> what evidence do you think is good enough for proving something eg kasab is Pakistani,how should it be proven by Indians? what kind of evidence will be called "full proof"?



The FBI has already concluded that Kasab was not Pakistani, is that evidence enough for you. That was just Indian propaganda that Kasab was Pakistani as usual. I dont know if my Indian friends realize what evidence really is, if they want to prove that Kasab is Pakistani than show some sort of identification. His Shanakthi card, his passport or even a driving license would do just fine . This is called evidence; not the Indian definition of evidence(We Indian authorities are saying that Kasab is Pakistani so this is evidence) .


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## Jihad

Rajkumar said:


> i wanna ask a question from pakistanis
> what evidence do you think is good enough for proving something eg kasab is Pakistani,how should it be proven by Indians? what kind of evidence will be called "full proof"?



The world would be a very cruel and unfair place if all nations started accusing one another of something and then back it up with baseless evidence and with letters that really have no value at all.
It simply doesn't work that way, I myself can write a letter and tell the court that this letter was written by you threatening to kill me.


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## Rajkumar

> The FBI has already concluded that Kasab was not Pakistani, is that evidence enough for you. That was just Indian propaganda that Kasab was Pakistani as usual. I dont know if my Indian friends realize what evidence really is, if they want to prove that Kasab is Pakistani than show some sort of identification. His Shanakthi card, his passport or even a driving license would do just fine . This is called evidence; not the Indian definition of evidence(We Indian authorities are saying that Kasab is Pakistani so this is evidence)



like KARGIL?
Indian provided these types of proof after kargil war to prove that these are Pakistani soldiers still Pakistan denied it for long time.
so we should assume that Pakistan will agree with India after some time?


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## notorious_eagle

Rajkumar said:


> like KARGIL?
> Indian provided these types of proof after kargil war to prove that these are Pakistani soldiers still Pakistan denied it for long time.
> so we should assume that Pakistan will agree with India after some time?



Kargil was a different story, it was Nawaz Shariff who was trying to suck up to the US and it was entirely his fault. During Kargil, yes there were a lot of blunders and i think Nawaz Shariff should take the blame for that. But lets go back to the bombing of Indian Parliament in 2001, India didnt provide any proof but only made baseless allegations. Over and over again, India does not provides any evidence but likes to whine and *****. Now we are this point that nobody really pays any attention to India , btw Kargil and this current situation are totally different.


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## linkinpark

Here is the evidence given to Pakistan.

Link (pdf file)

I urge Pakistani posters go through the evidence before making any comments. There is more evidence that many of you don't know because it was not in the media. Happy reading.


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## roadrunner

linkinpark said:


> Here is the evidence given to Pakistan.
> 
> Link (pdf file)
> 
> I urge Pakistani posters go through the evidence before making any comments. There is more evidence that many of you don't know because it was not in the media. Happy reading.



Good grief. If evidence 1 is anything to go by, what a joke. 

How do you count, "Nestle milk powder - Made in Pakistan" as a piece of evidence  ? 

I could go and order some Nestle milk powder from "Abdul's corner shop" on Chadrigar Road. 

Do you honestly believe the authorities could not have ordered some of that stuff and claim it was left at the crime scene? 

I have good reason to believe it may have been planted, since I can name several previous incidents where Indian police have carried out explosions they tried to blame on Pakistan. 

I can't believe the Indian police are this stupid. Perhaps I was wrong. 

Can you point to any real evidence in there?

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## Neo

*Pakistan dubs dossier mere propaganda​*7 Jan 2009

NEW DELHI: *Despite it being backed by none other than the US, a recalcitrant Pakistan has rubbished Indias so-called evidence linking Mumbai attacks with Pakistan nationals saying it was no more than allegations and propaganda offensive. *

In a statement which is likely to further stoke anger in India, if not lead to another flare up, Pakistan foreign secretary Salman Bashir told the foreign relations committee of Pakistan National Assembly on Tuesday that evidence provided by India was not credible enough. 

Bashir also said that PM Manmohan Singhs statement blaming official agencies in Pakistan for the Mumbai attacks would escalate tension and eventually push the two countries towards war. He added in his address to the committee that any military action by India would prove to be its biggest mistake. 

Bashirs statement authenticated reports in Pakistan media which suggested that *Islamabad has already picked enough holes in the Indian dossier linking Mumbai attacks to Pakistan nationals to suggest that the evidence was doctored by New Delhi.* 

*Pakistans minister of state for foreign affairs Malik Emaad Khan too asked India to provide evidence which would stand the scrutiny of law. That Pakistan was not going to cower in the face of the diplomatic offensive by India was evident when Khan said that Pakistan would come up with a befitting reply for any Indian military adventurism and described the situation as very tense.* 

There was no response from the Indian side to this development till late in the evening. Minister of state for foreign affairs Anand Sharma said that, as a first step, Pakistan should acknowledge that Mohammed Ajmal Amir Kasab, the lone terrorist survivor, is a Pakistani. However, going by the reports in Pakistan media, Kasabs confession has found few takers, if at all, in Pakistan.


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## Flintlock

Very sad, disappointing, but expected. 

The verdict is out I guess then. Pakistan has chosen denial. So be it.

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## anand

If credible evidence means Pakistani passports found with terrorists, then sorry we do not have that.
What kind of evidence Pakistan want, boarding passes, Pakistani SIM cards, Identity cards issued by Pakistani government. Come on terrorist will not carry all those things.
A Pakistani person comes forward and tells that Kasab is my son, but Pakistani minister says no he is not your son. Whom should I believe, a father or minister.


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## rubyjackass

notorious_eagle said:


> Kargil was a different story, it was Nawaz Shariff who was trying to suck up to the US and it was entirely his fault. During Kargil, yes there were a lot of blunders and i think Nawaz Shariff should take the blame for that. But lets go back to the bombing of Indian Parliament in 2001, India didnt provide any proof but only made baseless allegations. Over and over again, India does not provides any evidence but likes to whine and *****. Now we are this point that nobody really pays any attention to India , btw Kargil and this current situation are totally different.



If Pakistan accepted its involvement during the conflict, then it would have been full-scale war, with the whole world against Paksitan. People blame Nawaz Shariff without any understanding of the situation.


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## notorious_eagle

rubyjackass said:


> If Pakistan accepted its involvement during the conflict, then it would have been full-scale war, with the whole world against Paksitan. People blame Nawaz Shariff without any understanding of the situation.



See, Nawaz Shariff backed off. Well not the whole world, it was just the US but at that time US was the whole world. Nawaz Shariff should have stood firm, he should have made it clear to the world that Pakistan was not going to back off but as usual he betrayed the nation.


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## roadrunner

anand said:


> If credible evidence means Pakistani passports found with terrorists, then sorry we do not have that.
> What kind of evidence Pakistan want, boarding passes, Pakistani SIM cards, Identity cards issued by Pakistani government. Come on terrorist will not carry all those things.



But of course a Hindi speaking Kalava wearing terrorist that was conveniently captured alive having been drugged out during his "mission", and caught giggling to himself in photos, is not evidence of a coverup whatsoever! 

I think the point Pakistan is making is that the proof provided by India does not meet the standard required to pass a guilty verdict in a court of law. 

If the police catch someone, plant drugs on him, then he claims the police did plant those drugs on him, this is not enough to get a conviction. You need to prove he's lying to get the conviction. You could use past behaviour. In which case, India has been caught trying to false flag Pakistan, and in fact the Indian Army has been caught red handed blowing up its own trains and trying to blame Pakistan. You would never get a conviction in a court of law based on that evidence. 



> A Pakistani person comes forward and tells that Kasab is my son, but Pakistani minister says no he is not your son. Whom should I believe, a father or minister.



It's very simple. Hand over Kasab to a neutral doctor. 

Pakistan can hand this alleged father over. 

A DNA test can be done, and there will be no match. 

This is how all paternity tests are decided. 

When a woman claims Mr X is the father of her child, the court does not believe the parent automatically. Why? Because she may have a vested interest. 

Similarly, the alleged father/newspapers have vested interests. 

If you want to get a conviction in a court of law, you need to get SOLID evidence like DNA test results. 

The noodle cartons with a stamp of "MADE IN PAKISTAN" emblazoned on the side would be laughed out of any courtroom in the world

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## anand

roadrunner said:


> But of course a Hindi speaking Kalava wearing terrorist that was conveniently captured alive having been drugged out during his "mission", and caught giggling to himself in photos, is not evidence of a coverup whatsoever!
> 
> I think the point Pakistan is making is that the proof provided by India does not meet the standard required to pass a guilty verdict in a court of law.
> 
> If the police catch someone, plant drugs on him, then he claims the police did plant those drugs on him, this is not enough to get a conviction. You need to prove he's lying to get the conviction. You could use past behaviour. In which case, India has been caught trying to false flag Pakistan, and in fact the Indian Army has been caught red handed blowing up its own trains and trying to blame Pakistan. You would never get a conviction in a court of law based on that evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> It's very simple. Hand over Kasab to a neutral doctor.
> 
> Pakistan can hand this alleged father over.
> 
> A DNA test can be done, and there will be no match.
> 
> This is how all paternity tests are decided.
> 
> When a woman claims Mr X is the father of her child, the court does not believe the parent automatically. Why? Because she may have a vested interest.
> 
> Similarly, the alleged father/newspapers have vested interests.
> 
> If you want to get a conviction in a court of law, you need to get SOLID evidence like DNA test results.
> 
> The noodle cartons with a stamp of "MADE IN PAKISTAN" emblazoned on the side would be laughed out of any courtroom in the world




·*"This is clear they (attackers) had links in Pakistan. " Richard Boucher said.
·Boucher said Washington had tried to encourage India to share information with Pakistan.
·Boucher: "People in Pakistan have determination to find those responsible and those who did it."*

ISLAMABAD, Jan. 5 (Xinhua) -- U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for South and Central Asian Affairs Richard Boucher claimed Monday that the Mumbai attackers had links in Pakistan.

"This is clear they (attackers) had links in Pakistan. The attackers had links that leads to Pakistan," Boucher told a group of reporters at the U.S. embassy after talks with Pakistan's president and prime minister.

He welcomed the Indian decision to share information with Pakistan and said, "People in Pakistan have determination to find those responsible and those who did it."

Boucher said that he was glad to know India provided information to Pakistan, adding that Washington had tried to encourage India to share information with Pakistan.

"There is determination here (in Pakistan) to follow up and find the groups responsible for Mumbai attacks," he said.

To a question about the situation along the borders after Pakistan pulled out troops from the tribal region and deployed along Indian borders, Boucher said, "The situation is calm on the borders."

He said that the U.S. had encouraged both sides not to push for military confrontation and the best way was to do through dialogue.

Boucher said that during his meetings in Islamabad, he found that Pakistan had shown determination to deal with both the groups and individuals in terms of taking actions against them.

"Pakistan has done quite a lot," he said. He added that Pakistan and India must deal with those who harmed the Kashmir issue and were involved in terrorist activities.

He stressed that the two sides must exchange information to stop future attacks. "Both are working how to develop the probe," he said.

"Let's find whoever were to be involved. We are talking to both. We have direct interest as six U.S. citizens were killed. We are interested that the responsible must be found," he said.

"People have to work with each other to follow each other leads. We want to encourage them. They need serious work," he said.

He said that Indian investigations were advancing, adding that he would also visit India.

He said that Pakistan had also arrested several people of the banned Jamaat-ul-Dawa and closed their offices. "Pakistan is serious to deal with the threat of terrorism," he said. 

U.S. official: Mumbai attackers have links in Pakistan_English_Xinhua


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## dabong1

New Delhi: Amidst the clutter of telephone calls the Indian intelligence agencies were monitoring into and out of the Taj Mahal hotel on the night of the November 26 terrorist attack was one from a virtual number  12012531824  generated by a Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) telephony service based in the United States.

According to the dossier prepared by the Indian government outlining select details of what investigators have uncovered so far about last Novembers Mumbai attacks, Pakistan-based controllers/handlers used the virtual number to contact a mobile telephone with one of the terrorists. This conversation was intercepted and, thereafter, all calls made through the virtual number were also intercepted and recorded.

Providing the first-ever details of the investigations into the VoIP account, the dossier says the virtual number was initially set up with a U.S. company, Callphonex, by an individual who identified himself as Kharak Singh from India. 

The account was activated by a money gram transferred in the name of Mohammed Ashfaq. Kharak Singh also requested Callphonex to assign five Austrian Direct Inward Dialling (DID) numbers because his clients called from different countries, including India, the dossier says. The account was paid for by a money transfer of $238.78 through Western Union by one Javaid Iqbal who provided, as a form of identification, a Pakistani passport (No. KC 092481). 

The dossier adds: Investigations have revealed that Callphonex asked Kharak Singh if he was from India why the Western Union Transfer was coming from Pakistan. 

No reply 


Apparently, Callphonex received no reply. The VoIP interceptions yielded more evidence to Indian agencies as they revealed the use of three Austrian numbers which were given to the terrorists by the controllers/handlers and conversations with these numbers by the terrorists were also intercepted and recorded, the dossier notes. 

These Austrian numbers, in turn, correspond to the DID numbers assigned by Callphonex to Kharak Singh. The details of the VoIP account are one of multiple pieces of evidence the Indian government has laid out before Pakistan and all Delhi-based foreign envoys to prove its claim that the attacks on Mumbai were staged by elements from Pakistan. 

Several ambassadors who were present at the region-wise briefings at the Ministry of External Affairs on Monday and Tuesday told The Hindu that they found the Indian dossier compelling. It is fully in line with our own belief of how this incident was planned, said one of the envoys from the group of 14 countries who lost citizens in the attacks. 

In their oral presentations, Indian officials told the envoys of their belief that the ISI was indeed involved in the incident. Though this claim was not contested, at least one nation, the United States, has told India it is still not in a position to share this perception. 

One of the transcripts contained in the dossier provides the answer to why the terrorists left their satellite phone behind on the Kuber with potentially incriminating data. Did you open the locks for the water below, a caller from Pakistan asked one of the terrorists at the Taj Hotel at 0126 hours on November 27, presumably in a reference to a pre-arranged plan to sink the trawler. No, they did not open the locks. We left it like that because of being in a hurry. We made a big mistake, the receiver of the phone call answered. What big mistake?, he was asked. When we were getting into the boat, the waves were quite high. Another boat came. Everyone raised an alarm that the Navy had come. Everyone jumped quickly. In this confusion, the satellite phone of Ismail got left behind, the terrorist replied. The dossier also notes in passing that the GPS set contained trackback points which were the RV for their intended return after the attack. 

At Mondays briefing for the 14 nations who lost citizens in the attack, one of the ambassadors asked Foreign Secretary Shiv Shankar Menon whether this meant the attack was perhaps not a suicide mission after all. Mr. Menon reportedly said that this was one of the issues which still needed to be probed. 

The dossier also contains a second section in which India has attempted to draw attention to the contradictory nature of Pakistans response to the Mumbai attacks, Pakistans failure to respond appropriately to Indian requests for cooperation when evidence was provided to it about terrorist acts in the past, and an outline of Pakistans bilateral and international commitments and obligations. 

The last section of the dossier contains an outline of what India expects Pakistan to do in the wake of the Mumbai attacks. This was a conspiracy launched from Pakistan. Gaps in knowledge can be filled by investigation and interrogation of conspirators there, the dossier states, adding, Some of the actions that India expects Pakistan to undertake in extending cooperation to bring the terrorists to justice are: Hand over conspirators to face justice in India, hand over fugitives from Indian law based in Pakistan, Dismantle infrastructure of terrorism, Prevent terrorist acts from Pakistan, Adhere to and implement bilateral, multilateral and international obligations.

The dossier notes that on the basis of the interrogation of Mohammed Ajmal Amir Kasab, the lone terrorist to be captured alive, the role of Lashkar commander Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi in the training of the crew had been established. The terrorist group initially consisted of 32 persons but the team chosen for the operation was eventually whittled down to 10. 

Other LeT commanders involved were Abu Hamza, Kaahfa, and Yousuf alias Muzammil, the dossier says. Among the material evidence India has in its possession is the 11-seater inflatable dinghy the terrorists used to move from the hijacked trawler, Kuber, to Mumbai. 

An attempt was made by the terrorists to erase the engine number but it has been retrieved by investigators. The outboard motor number is 67 CL-1020015, manufactured by Yamaha Motor Corporation and imported into Pakistan and distributed by a company named Business & Engineering Trends in Lahore. Several items including toiletries, food articles, drums containing diesel and clothes bear clear evidence of having been manufactured in Pakistan. Photographs of all these items are provided in an annexure.

The transcripts in the dossier make it apparent that the six handlers were closely monitoring events in Mumbai through the live TV coverage which went on non-stop for 60 hours. There are three ministers and one secretary of the cabinet in your hotel. We dont know in which room, a Pakistan-based caller tells a terrorist at the Taj at 0310 hrs on November 27. Oh! That is good news It is the icing on the cake!, he replies. Find those 3-4 persons and then get whatever you want from India, he is instructed. Pray that we find them, he answers. 

At the Oberoi at 0353 hrs on November 27, a handler phones and says: 

Brother Abdul. The media is comparing your action to 9/11. One senior police official has been killed. 

Abdul Rehman: We are on the10th/11th floor. We have five hostages. 

Caller 2 (Kafa): Everything is being recorded by the media. Inflict the maximum damage. Keep fighting. Dont be taken alive. 

Caller: Kill all hostages, except the two Muslims. Keep your phone switched on so that we can hear the gunfire. 

Fahadullah: We have three foreigners, including women. From Singapore and China. 

Caller: Kill them. The dossier then notes that the telephone intercept records the voices of Fahadullah and Abdul Rehman directing hostages to stand in a line, and telling two Muslims to stand aside. Sound of gunfire. Cheering voices in background. Kafa hands telephone to Zarar, who says, Fahad, find the way to go downstairs.

In another call, to the Taj this time, a handler says, The ATS chief has been killed. Your work is very important. Allah is helping you. The Vazir (minister) should not escape. Try and set the place on fire.

At Nariman House at 1945 hrs on November 27, the handler Wassi tells a terrorist: Keep in mind that hostages are of use only as long as you do not come under fire because of their safety. If you are still threatened, then dont saddle yourself with the burden of the hostages. Immediately kill them. He then adds, The Army claims to have done the work without any hostage being harmed. Another thing: Israel has made a request through diplomatic channels to save the hostages. If the hostages are killed, it will spoil relations between India and Israel. 

So be it, God willing, the terrorist replies.
The Hindu : Front Page : Dossier: handlers used virtual number to contact a mobile with one of the terrorists


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## tarrar

evidence given to pakistan after 1 month crap..India have made the evidence according to thr need its all lies and thr is no truth in this we have already proven the india govt and indian media wrong.. but thnx to our pathetic media thy are spreading false info this is media terrorism and GEO is doing good in this b******s.


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## ajpirzada

linkinpark said:


> Here is the evidence given to Pakistan.
> 
> Link (pdf file)
> 
> I urge Pakistani posters go through the evidence before making any comments. There is more evidence that many of you don't know because it was not in the media. Happy reading.



i have read the first one and i would say there is considerable amount of evidence in there which need to be looked into by pakistani investigators. im not talkin about milk cartons. but that yamaha engine thing, gun which was made in peshawar, and few others which i dont remember. invetigation is currently underway and i hope culprit will be brought to justice. pakistani and indian investigators need to work together inorder to put an end to all this.


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## Neo

*Pakistan may outsmart India in Mumbai diplomatic poker​*
NEW DELHI: India may be frustrated and even outwitted by Pakistan over the Mumbai attacks, after placing its faith in the support of the United States.

New Delhi has responded to the attacks on its soil with a diplomatic offensive, trusting Washington and ultimately US president-elect Barack Obama to pressure Pakistan, but with Obama and the West depending on Pakistani support for a planned troop surge in Afghanistan, there are limits to how far they can go.

Pakistan has been able to obfuscate the issue, said Indian security analyst Uday Bhaskar. India will have to lessen its own expectation of what the international community can deliver.

India has asked Pakistan to hand over the suspected organisers of the attack to the Indian justice system, saying it is a demand South Asian regional agreements back  that terrorist acts should be prosecuted in the nation where they occur  but not one many analysts or diplomats expect to be met.

Handing over Pakistani nationals to Indian custody, I dont think the Pakistani government can survive that humiliating demand, said Rasul Bakhsh Rais, a professor at the Lahore University of Management Sciences.

I dont think that the United States is going to succeed to put pressure on Pakistan, because what India wants Pakistan to do is politically, and otherwise, not possible at all  and India knows that very well.

Siddharth Varadarajan, strategic affairs editor of the Hindu newspaper, says Obama will not want to grapple with the issue of the alleged links between the Pakistani army and any militants so soon after taking office. 

The Pentagon is still in denial, he added. It still looks at the Pakistani military as part of the solution, not as part of the problem.

The Indian government realises a military strike on Pakistan would be counterproductive, and only serve to strengthen the hawks and extremists. That leaves it with few alternatives, apart from formally suspending the peace process.

All bets are off, though, if there is another attack on Indian soil. The Indian government would be forced to react in a symbolic way. It would not lead to strategic gains, but I dont think the restraint we are now talking about could be maintained, Varadarajan said. reuters


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## Neo

*Pakistan demands access to Mumbai crime scene​*
ISLAMABAD: Information Minister Sherry Rehman on Tuesday demanded of India to allow Pakistani investigators to access the crime scene in Mumbai. Talking to reporters in Islamabad, she asked India to stop the blame game and cooperate with Pakistan against terrorism. India had admitted that Pakistan government is not involved in the Mumbai attacks, she said, and Islamabad had played a key role in the war on terror since well before the attacks. Sherry said the Pakistani government has begun its own probe into the attacks and any information given by India would be included in the investigation.


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## Neo

*Pakistan to professionally analyse information​*
** President and prime minister agree to cooperate with India in probing Mumbai attacks​*
ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and President Asif Ali Zardari agreed in a meeting on Tuesday that Pakistani investigators should professionally analyse the information about the November 26 terrorist attacks in Mumbai that New Delhi has provided to Islamabad. 

Sources privy to the meeting at the Presidents House told Daily Times the two leaders agreed Pakistan should extend complete cooperation to India in the investigations into the attacks. 

They agreed that if anyone is found guilty, action will be taken against them in accordance with our own laws and no one will be handed over to India, the sources said. 

A brief statement issued by the government said Gilani and Zardari discussed the current political situation, and that the premier apprised [Zardari] about the measures taken by the government to resolve the energy crisis and to provide relief to the general public.

Citing unidentified sources, the Online news agency said the two leaders regretted allegations by the Indian prime minister that Pakistani officials were involved in the attacks, and said Islamabad was against all forms of terrorism and would not allow its soil to be used for terrorist attacks against any other country.


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## linkinpark

ajpirzada said:


> i have read the first one and i would say there is considerable amount of evidence in there which need to be looked into by pakistani investigators. im not talkin about milk cartons. but that yamaha engine thing, gun which was made in peshawar, and few others which i dont remember. invetigation is currently underway and i hope culprit will be brought to justice. pakistani and indian investigators need to work together inorder to put an end to all this.



You are the first Pakistani poster who has actually put some thought to the evidence provided with out denying it blindly.

For those who has not gone through the evidence, let me make your job easier by giving a gist of it in the order of clinching to circumstantial evidence.

1) GPS records of the sea route took by the terrorists where the co-ordinates show that they have travelled from Karachi to Mumbai.

2) Peshawar made guns obtained on all the terrorists killed and captured. One can go into the records of the gun sales to see who bought them.

3) The Yamaha motor engine found on the rubber dinghy used by terrorist to travel from the boat to the mumbai coast. the engine number indicates that it was imported by Pakistan from Japan. One can again go and look into the sales of this engine.

4) The excerpts of the phone calls between the terrorists and their masters in pakistan. The VOIP account used by these guys opened in Callphonex, an american VOIP company was done using a Western Union transaction account and the amount paid by a guy using Pakistani passport as the identification. The passport number has been provided. One can go and look into the details of this person based on the Passport information.

5) The e-mail sent in the name of 'Deccan Mujahideen' from an e-mail account which was opened using an IP address based in lahore, Pakistan. The IP address has been provided. One can again check into this who was using this IP address. There is also proof that another e-mail account opened by Zarrar Shah also used the same IP address.

6) Grenades (unexploded) recovered from the terrorists were made by a Pakistani franchise of Austrian based company. Again one can go into the details of the sales of these grenades.

7) And all the items recovered from the boat were all Pakistani-made.

And last but not least, the captured terrorist 'Kasab' confessed that he is a Pakistani (and we know it was confirmed by Guardian, DAWN and Geo TV media outlets, heck even Nawaj Sharif said that he is from Faridkot)


It is always difficult to gather this kind of evidence in any terror related incidents and one should keep this in mind. There is hard evidence as well as circumstantial evidence which I think is quite credible and Pakistani investigative agencies should pursue it to logical conclusion based on the evidence provided.


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## Rajkumar

> Surviving gunman&#8217;s identity established as Pakistani
> By Mubashir Zaidi
> 
> Wednesday, 07 Jan, 2009 | 05:28 PM PST |
> 
> 
> ISLAMABAD: Pakistani authorities during the course of their own investigations into the Mumbai carnage have established the identity of the only surviving terrorist Ajmal Kasaab as a Pakistani national.
> 
> A high-ranking government official while confirming the report told Dawnnews that because of the nature of his crime the government has still not taken any decision on whether to provide him with consular access.
> 
> The top official said the investigations had started soon after the initial reports had suggested that Ajmal Kasaab may possibly be a Pakistani national. However, the authorities wanted to be doubly sure of his identity as there existed no record of Kasaab and his family in the National Data Base which is maintained by the NADRA. Details of the preliminary investigations submitted to the government have still not been made public.
> 
> The official said Kasaab is the son of Amir Kasaab and Mrs Noor Illahi. But the identity of other militants killed in the Mumbai carnage is yet to be established. However, senior security officials told Dawnnews preliminary investigations have established these militants were operating on their own and had absolutely no link with any section of the country&#8217;s security apparatus. A formal announcement in this regard is expected in the next few days.
> 
> DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Surviving-gunmans-identity-established-as-Pakistani-ss



lets see what Pakistan does after kasab proven to be a Pakistani. how sincerely she is going to take action against extremists.


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## ajpirzada

Rajkumar said:


> lets see what Pakistan does after kasab proven to be a Pakistani. how sincerely she is going to take action against extremists.



man atleast u should show some trust now. if pakistan wouldnt have been willing to cooperate y would we accept kasab as pakistani. we had more pressure on us few weeks back but we didnt accept his as pakistani. now there is not much pressure but after doin our own investigation we did accept him being from pak


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## Jihad

India should FULLY co-operate if she wants her demands to be met.
It's as simple as that, how can Pakistan investigate this matter if she doesn't have any solid ground to stand on.


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## ajpirzada

*Pakistan dubs dossier mere &#8216;propaganda&#8217;*

NEW DELHI: Despite it being backed by none other than the US, a recalcitrant Pakistan has rubbished India&#8217;s &#8216;&#8216;so-called&#8217;&#8217; evidence linking Mumbai 
attacks with Pakistan nationals saying it was no more than allegations and propaganda offensive. ( Watch ) 

In a statement which is likely to further stoke anger in India, if not lead to another flare up, Pakistan foreign secretary Salman Bashir told the foreign relations committee of Pakistan National Assembly on Tuesday that evidence provided by India was not credible enough. 

Bashir also said that PM Manmohan Singh&#8217;s statement blaming official agencies in Pakistan for the Mumbai attacks would escalate tension and eventually push the two countries towards war. He added in his address to the committee that any military action by India would prove to be its &#8216;&#8216;biggest mistake&#8217;&#8217;. 

Bashir&#8217;s statement authenticated reports in Pakistan media which suggested that Islamabad has already picked enough holes in the Indian dossier linking Mumbai attacks to Pakistan nationals to suggest that the evidence was doctored by New Delhi. 

Pakistan&#8217;s minister of state for foreign affairs Malik Emaad Khan too asked India to provide evidence which would stand the scrutiny of law. That Pakistan was not going to cower in the face of the diplomatic offensive by India was evident when Khan said that Pakistan would come up with a &#8216;&#8216;befitting&#8217;&#8217; reply for any Indian military adventurism and described the situation as &#8216;&#8216;very tense&#8217;&#8217;. 

There was no response from the Indian side to this development till late in the evening. Minister of state for foreign affairs Anand Sharma said that, as a first step, Pakistan should acknowledge that Mohammed Ajmal Amir Kasab, the lone terrorist survivor, is a Pakistani. However, going by the reports in Pakistan media, Kasab&#8217;s confession has found few takers, if at all, in Pakistan. 

Pakistan dubs dossier mere ?propaganda?-India-The Times of India


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## ajpirzada

now this is the kind of indian press which frustrates us pakistanis and develops hatred amongst indians. 

pakistan never said that the evidece (dossier) provided was just a mere propoganda but wat pak is talkin about is the statement given by indian leaders. such kind of reporting is simply pethatic

there have been 154 comments under this story on TOI website. and guess wat they promote? only hatred


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## roadrunner

lol. A Peshwar made gun!  

Record sales of that gun! 

Alright I'll humour you guys for a bit. 

Indeed, when I go Peshwar, Darra, I always collect a receipt for my new Kalakov copy. In fact, I have it stamped and dated by those ruthlessly efficient Darra gunmen, and my transaction goes into their big and well kepy book of gun sales  

And no, Pakistan has not admitted that Kasab is a Pakistani. A news channel has claimed he is, a person who could be anyone may have claimed it also. This is not evidence until it has been proven. 

And Yamaha motors can easily be bought from Pakistan, without question. I don't know how they traced it to Pakistan, but either way, it's not difficult to buy one. 

The Indians on here consider it to be proof, which is why your judicial system is so poor (alright, Pakistan's isn't much better either). However, this is not proof by any western standard.

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## ajpirzada

im sure our investigators will look into all this before comin up with a final report. so we dont really need to worry. 
regarding kasab: shery rehman, our information minister, has said that he is a pakistani. she would not say such a thing if investigation says otherwise


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## roadrunner

ajpirzada said:


> im sure our investigators will look into all this before comin up with a final report. so we dont really need to worry.
> regarding kasab: shery rehman, our information minister, has said that he is a pakistani. she would not say such a thing if investigation says otherwise



"Sherry Rehman, the Interior Minister of Pakistan, told a news agency in an SMS that Kasab is a Pakistani. Rehman also said Pakistan's investigation into the Mumbai attacks was continuing." 

Why would she SMS a news channel to state something like this?


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## Jihad

roadrunner said:


> "Sherry Rehman, the Interior Minister of Pakistan, told a news agency in an SMS that Kasab is a Pakistani. Rehman also said Pakistan's investigation into the Mumbai attacks was continuing."
> 
> Why would she SMS a news channel to state something like this?



Beats me.
Is that how things go these days?
SMS, sounds highly unlikely.


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## jeypore

roadrunner said:


> "Sherry Rehman, the Interior Minister of Pakistan, told a news agency in an SMS that Kasab is a Pakistani. Rehman also said Pakistan's investigation into the Mumbai attacks was continuing."
> 
> Why would she SMS a news channel to state something like this?



So roadrunner how would you interpret this:



> The office of Pakistani Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani confirmed Wednesday that National Security Adviser Mahmud Ali Durrani had been fired, but gave no reason for his dismissal.
> 
> Earlier in the day, Durrani said the sole surviving suspect in the Mumbai attacks -- in which more than 160 people were killed -- had ties to Pakistan.
> 
> "I think it probably would be true now that for example [Mohammed Ajmal Kasab] had Pakistani connections," said Durrani. "So one cannot deny there was zero link with Pakistan. How much, who all was involved, that we have to investigate."
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/01/07/pakistan.india.mumbai/index.html


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## linkinpark

*Credible evidence against LeT: Mulford
*
8 Jan 2009, 0536 hrs IST, ET Bureau

NEW DELHI: Emphasising that India and US are on the same page on terror, ambassador David Mulford has said that the Mumbai attack dossier 
contains credible evidence on the role of Lashkar-e-Toiba in the terror act. 

*`I think the dossier is credible and a lot of work is with the assistance of the FBI, Mr Mulford said during an interaction with journalists of The Times of India group. The dossier, which has been shared with the international community, details the trail of evidence that traces origin of the attack back to Pakistan and the Lashkar-e-Toiba .* 

The dossier includes transcripts of calls between the Mumbai attack terrorists and their handlers in Pakistan, a list of made in Pakistan items , photographs of the weapons used in the attacks and the GPS equipment carried by the terrorists. 

The FBI team, which has been working closely with the Indian investigators, will now travel to Pakistan to follow these and other leads that have emerged in the case. `They are finishing some things here. We do wish to interview certain people... That has to be worked out with the Pakistani government , Mr Mulford said. *Washington has already conveyed to New Delhi that the FBI team will be seeking access to Lashkar-e-Toiba operations commander Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, the suspected mastermind behind the attacks, LeT commander Zarar Shah. *

Even as the FBI team gets ready to travel to Pakistan, US assistant secretary of state Richard Boucher arrives in India on Thursday after completing a tour of Pakistan. Mr Boucher is expected to speak to the Indian leadership and give them feedback on his conversation with the Pakistani leadership. Mr Bouchers visit is important as he was in Islamabad holding talks on the day that India handed over the terror dossier to Pakistan . New Delhi, which has been watching the initial reactions with dismay, is interested in what the Pakistani leadership is saying off the record. 

Mr Bouchers visit to India is the latest in a string of visits from the US including the visit of secretary of state Condoleezza Rice followed by visits of senior politicians like John Kerry and John McCain. 

One noticeable aspect post-26 /11 is the scale of cooperation between India and the US. Mr Mulford, discussing the change in bilateral relationship since the civilian nuclear deal, said that there was closer cooperation between India and the US particularly on the issue of terrorism. `` At present time we are on the same ground... It is very clear that the US is very much on the same wavelength on the issue of terrorism, he said, and added, `` The US has been putting pressure on Pakistan in a number of ways. 

But he also revealed that there was frustration in Washington on Pakistans responses after the Mumbai attacks. `` In Washington there is a measure of frustration and concern about responses but there is also measure of satisfaction with some of the things we have heard, Mr Mulford said. 

*Pakistan has offered to help in the Mumbai attack investigations but has refused to take any `` credible action or acknowledge that the terror links originate in Pakistan. 
*
Even as the investigations reveal the Pakistani links, the US is also coming round to the conclusion that the situation in Pakistan is more complex then it was under General Pervez Musharraf. `` The major view in Washington is that 
Pakistan is more complex and difficult then when it was under president Pervez Musharraf, said Mr Mulford. 

Indias assessment has been that there was a single chain of command during the Musharraf period but since then four power centres have emerged out of which the civilian government is being seen as the weakest link. In the events that have unfurled after the Mumbai terror attacks, the fragility of democratically-elected government has emerged time and again. 

*Mr Mulford without going into any details simply said that the ISI needed to be brought under the civilian governments control. `` It would be very desirable if the intelligence agency is under the firmer civilian control, he said. 
*
Mr Mulford emphasised that India and Pakistan needed to work together against terrorism. `` What was disturbing was that the attack was carried out from territory of Pakistan. `` Whats most important to us is that India and Pakistan should seek to work together because it is a terrorist probe. Terrorism doesnt know any boundaries.  But cooperation is becoming increasingly difficult as Islamabad has refused to accept any of the evidence given by India.


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## roadrunner

jeypore said:


> So roadrunner how would you interpret this:
> 
> The office of Pakistani Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani *confirmed Wednesday that National Security Adviser Mahmud Ali Durrani had been fired, but gave no reason for his dismissal.*
> 
> Earlier in the day, Durrani said the sole surviving suspect in the Mumbai attacks -- in which more than 160 people were killed -- had ties to Pakistan.
> 
> "I think it probably would be true now that for example [Mohammed Ajmal Kasab] had Pakistani connections," said Durrani. "So one cannot deny there was zero link with Pakistan. How much, who all was involved, that we have to investigate."
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapc...bai/index.html



Well hang on. 

That is not an admission that Kasab was/is a Pakistani. 

First, Pakistan Government fired this guy after he said this, so it is not the position of the Pakistani government. 

Second, that translation of what Durrani said, is not an admission that Kasab is a Pakistani. It is his opinion that Kasab may have some connections with Pakistan. This could be his background, this may equally be the Kalashnikov he was holding. 

You are jumping to conclusions.


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## linkinpark

RoadRunner, please stop running for a while and go through this BBC article on Sherry Rehman's statement



> *Mumbai gunman is Pakistan citizen*
> 
> Pakistan has said the only surviving gunman from November's attacks in Mumbai (Bombay) is a Pakistani citizen.
> 
> After weeks of refusing to confirm the allegations, the foreign ministry said: "We have just been informed... that Ajmal Kasab is a Pakistani national."
> 
> Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab was detained on the first night of the attacks.
> 
> India says all 10 gunmen were from the Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba. Relations with Pakistan, which denies any role, are under strain.
> 
> More than 170 people died when 10 gunmen attacked Mumbai on 26 November.
> 
> Meanwhile, Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has dismissed his national security adviser, Mehmood Ali Durrani, amid the tensions with India.
> 
> It is not entirely clear why Mr Durrani lost his job. One report suggested it was because he had made unauthorised comments to the media that the surviving gunman was Pakistani.
> 
> A prime ministerial statement said Mr Durrani had been sacked "for his irresponsible behaviour for not taking the prime minister and other stakeholders into confidence, and a lack of co-ordination on matters of national security".
> 
> 'Investigations'
> 
> It is the first time Pakistan has acknowledged any links to the gunmen after weeks of refusing to confirm Indian claims.
> 
> *"We are confirming that Qasab is Pakistani but investigations are still ongoing," Information Minister Sherry Rehman told the BBC on Wednesday.
> *
> Pakistan had previously said Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab's name was not listed in the national database of citizens.
> 
> *The BBC's M Ilyas Khan in Islamabad says that it is not clear why the Pakistani authorities have taken so long to admit publicly what many officials long ago conceded in private.*
> 
> But our correspondent says the Pakistani security establishment in particular has a reputation for dragging its feet when it comes to making any sort of military or political concessions to India.
> 
> Confirmation of the suspect's nationality comes after India provided Pakistan with a dossier of evidence which it said linked the Mumbai attackers and elements in Pakistan.
> 
> On Tuesday, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said that because of the "sophistication and military precision of the attack it must have had the support of some official agencies in Pakistan".
> 
> Pakistan rejected Mr Singh's allegations and accused India of raising regional tension.
> 
> Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab faces a number of charges including murder, attempted murder, waging war against a country and criminal conspiracy.


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## roadrunner

linkinpark said:


> RoadRunner, please stop running for a while and go through this BBC article on Sherry Rehman's statement



Alright, again for you. 

This is from "arabnews" 

"Information Minister Sherry Rahman also confirmed Qasab&#8217;s Pakistani nationality. &#8220;We are confirming Qasab is from Pakistan but investigations are ongoing,&#8221; *she said in a text message*." 

From the BBC- 
""We are confirming that Qasab is Pakistani but investigations are still ongoing," Information Minister Sherry Rehman told the BBC on Wednesday." 

The messages are exactly the same, so probably from the same source. Has she been busy all night talking to media all round the world, and using her SMS? 

The Arab News say it was an SMS. The BBC say it was told directly to them. 

Which is true? The SMS? Or the direct revelation. 

This will all be clear in one or two days. 

I find it hard to believe she'd reveal this in an SMS. At first it was claimed to have been revealed to some Pakistani news outlet. 

Do I believe she revealed it through SMS. No way.

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## linkinpark

BBC being one of the oldest and most respected media outlet I will go by BBC not by some unknown quantity 'arab news'. From BBC report it is clear Sherry Rehman told that 'Kasab' is a Pakistani. Accept it for what it is, don't try to obfuscate any further, after all she is your Information Minister and it is the final word.


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## roadrunner

linkinpark said:


> BBC being one of the oldest and most respected media outlet I will go by BBC not by some unknown quantity 'arab news'. From BBC report it is clear Sherry Rehman told that 'Kasab' is a Pakistani. Accept it for what it is, don't try to obfuscate any further, after all she is your Information Minister and it is the final word.



You can go with who you like. 

It's possible that the BBC report was incorrect (it wouldnt be the first time), it's possible that the report was based on this alleged SMS. 

Wait and see. 1 or 2 days and this should be cleared up. 

It's not a big deal anyway, but there's been so much silly reporting in the media by both India and Pakistan, like the Nawaz Sharif statement, when you were again jumping up and down claiming this was proof, that the only firm admission will be when Gilani comes out to confirm it. 

Incidentally, Durrani did not make an admission. He said something silly though. 

With Sherry Rahman, let's wait a couple of days. It makes no difference whether it's true or false, but you've taken newspaper statements as truth so far, and turned out to be incorrect. So wait, instead of being wrong all the time.


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## roadrunner

"But the foreign secretary of Pakistan, soon after that contradicted Mahmud Durrani&#8217;s statement saying, &#8220;matter is being investigated and it appears Indian media have twisted statement of security adviser." 

Qasab is Pak national, says Islamabad 

"As the foreign secretary made his statement, *Durrani told reporters, &#8220;my statement was not aired in its letter and spirit. In fact Indian channels twisted my statement.&#8221;* 

Qasab is Pak national, says Islamabad 

Now Sherry Rehman's SMS. Let's wait and see.


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## Neo

*Pakistan Rejects Indian Accusations, Plays Down Tension​*
By Pamela Constable and Candace Rondeaux
Washington Post Foreign Service 
Thursday, January 8, 2009

KABUL, Jan. 7 -- *During a visit to Afghanistan, Pakistan's foreign minister on Wednesday strongly rejected accusations by India that Pakistani government agencies had played a role in the terrorist attacks in Mumbai in November, insisting that his government wants to "get to the bottom" of the incident and hopes for cooperation with India, not "finger-pointing." *

At the same time, Pakistan's powerful intelligence chief said in a rare public interview from Islamabad that his government has no desire to fight a war with India, Pakistan's larger neighbor and longtime rival, and that he views terrorism as the "real enemy" of his country. 

But in a sign of the deep fissures within Pakistan's government over the Mumbai attacks, the country's national security adviser was fired in Islamabad on Wednesday after publicly acknowledging that the lone surviving gunman appeared to be a Pakistani citizen, an allegation previously denied by Pakistani authorities. 

*In an interview with CNN, Mahmud Ali Durrani said there appeared to be proof that all 10 gunmen had Pakistani roots. Officials from the Foreign and Information ministries confirmed that assertion, but the Foreign Ministry later retracted its statement, and within hours, government officials and national TV channels reported that Durrani, a former intelligence chief, had been dismissed by Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gillani. *

On Tuesday, senior Indian officials all but accused Pakistani government agencies of having a hand in the three-day siege in India's financial capital that left more than 170 people dead. Indian authorities have blamed the attacks on a banned Islamist group based in Pakistan. 

The contradictory statements came during a first-ever trip by Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari to Afghanistan, where he and President Hamid Karzai agreed to jointly combat regional terrorism and appeared eager to mend fences after years of hostility between officials in Kabul and the previous government in Islamabad. 

"This is a watershed in our bilateral relations, a long journey that has overcome hurdles and suspicions," Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi told journalists here Wednesday. "There has been a dramatic change since a democratic government took office in Pakistan. There is a new trust and a new environment." 

In a separate visit to Kabul on Wednesday after a brief stop in Pakistan, the senior State Department official for South Asia hailed the new relationship between Zardari and Karzai, saying both presidents have shown a "strong determination to fight terrorism, supported by the United States." 

*Assistant Secretary of State Richard A. Boucher did not discuss the allegation that Pakistani government agencies were involved in the Mumbai attacks. But he told journalists here that whether terrorists attack Mumbai or Islamabad, "these people are all a threat to Pakistan." *

Pakistani and U.S. officials appeared to be trying to decrease the tensions that have developed between India and Pakistan since the attacks, raising the specter of renewed military conflict between the nuclear-armed neighbors. They also sought to reinforce Pakistan's emerging positive relations with Afghanistan, another neighbor with whom it shares a long border and a challenge from Islamist extremists. 

Neither Qureshi nor Boucher spoke about the new evidence that India says it has found -- and delivered to Pakistani authorities -- linking Pakistan to the Mumbai assault. *Qureshi said he was "disappointed" that Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had made such an accusation, and he noted that on the day the Mumbai siege began, he had been in New Delhi trying to improve bilateral relations. *

"Suddenly, as I returned to my hotel, Mumbai took place," he said. "I did not allow this to obstruct my vision, but unfortunately, some Indian politicians succumbed and became obsessed by it." Qureshi said he had offered "from Day One" to cooperate in the investigation into the attacks and that Pakistan's only desire was to "bring the perpetrators to justice." 

*Indian authorities and international experts have expressed the suspicion that the good intentions of Pakistan's civilian leaders are not necessarily shared by its military and intelligence establishments, which were forged in a decades-long rivalry with India and have sponsored armed Islamist groups in Indian Kashmir and in Afghanistan during the anti-Soviet conflict there. *

But Qureshi and Pakistan's intelligence chief, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, said Wednesday that the country's security forces are subservient to civilian authority and committed to supporting democratic rule. "It is completely clear to the army chief and I that this government must succeed," Pasha said of Zardari's administration. "I report regularly to the president and take orders from him." 

Pasha also ruled out the possibility of going to war with India, telling the online edition of the German newsmagazine Der Spiegel that Pakistan is "distancing itself" from such conflict and that "we know full well that terror is our enemy, not India." He acknowledged, however, that although he had been willing to travel to India after the Mumbai attacks, some senior officials were "simply not ready" to make such a gesture to Pakistan's longtime adversary. 

*Qureshi, asked here whether his government was in control of the military and intelligence sectors, asserted vehemently that it was. 

"Pakistan's political and military leadership is one," he said. "When the military leadership speaks, you can take it for granted they are speaking for the civilian leaders, and when the political leadership speaks, the military is behind it." *


----------



## linkinpark

roadrunner said:


> You can go with who you like.
> 
> It's possible that the BBC report was incorrect (it wouldnt be the first time), it's possible that the report was based on this alleged SMS.



Why BBC's report will be incorrect?. What will they gain by giving incorrect reports?.

Either BBC or SMS, the news is that 'Kasab' is a Pakistani and it is final. Even Pakistni NSA unfortunately for Pakistan confirmed that and got fired for that and to coverup Govt. of Pakistan had to accept that Kasab was Pakistani. The writing is clear on the wall. Just remove the goggles and see it.

As a final nail in the coffin your foreign ministry spokesman also gave a statement. Here please go through



> *Official fired for Mumbai remark*
> 
> Nasir Khan THE WASHINGTON TIMES
> 
> ISLAMABAD, Pakistan | Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani on Wednesday fired the country's national security adviser after several officials confirmed that the lone survivor among the Mumbai attackers is a Pakistani.
> 
> *"It has been confirmed that Mohammed Ajmal Kasab is a Pakistani national," foreign ministry spokesman Muhammad Sadiq said in a statement. This was also confirmed by Information Minister Sherry Rehman.*
> 
> Earlier, National Security Adviser Mahmud Ali Durrani told an Indian television channel that Kasab could be a Pakistani national.
> 
> In the days after the Nov. 26-29 attack in India's financial capital, Pakistani officials repeatedly denied there was any evidence linking the surviving attacker to Pakistan. Wednesday's reversal comes two days after India presented Pakistan with a dossier of evidence to prove the 10 attackers came from Pakistan.
> 
> The dossier included transcripts of phone conversations between the attackers and their handlers guiding them and giving them pep talks during the raids.
> 
> While Kasab was captured alive after his deadly attack on Mumbai's main train station, the other nine men were killed in the attacks at two luxury hotels, a cafe and a Jewish center. More than 160 people were killed.
> 
> *Pakistani media reports Wednesday and particularly the statement of the national security adviser pushed the government into an embarrassing situation, with foreign, interior and information ministry officials giving conflicting reports about Kasab.
> 
> The interior and foreign ministries had earlier rejected media reports. The foreign ministry at first said it had not been established that Kasab is Pakistani. However, within a few minutes it issued another statement confirming Kasab's identity as a Pakistani national.* *a lot of flip-flops here*
> 
> Hours later, Mr. Durrani became the first victim of the confusion when Mr. Gilani's office announced that he had been fired "for his irresponsible behavior for not taking the prime minister and other stakeholders into confidence and lack of coordination on matters of national security."
> 
> A senior government official said Mr. Durrani spoke about Kasab without consulting the prime minister first.
> 
> *Security analyst Talat Masood, a retired Pakistani army general, said official confirmation of Kasab's nationality is a positive step that will be welcomed by the international community.
> 
> "Official confirmation about Kasab's identity will convince others that Pakistan is prepared and serious in cooperating in Mumbai attacks investigation," Mr. Masood said. "Pakistan shall not shy away from confirming the identity of other Mumbai attackers if they were also Pakistanis."*
> 
> Indian officials have shown increasing frustration about what they see as Pakistan's unwillingness to fully investigate the attacks.
> 
> In New Delhi Wednesday, India said it would keep all options open to dismantle "terror outfits," Reuters news agency reported.
> 
> "I say we are keeping all options open," Indian Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee told Times Now television. Hours earlier Defense Minister A.K. Antony had made similar comments.




Please let me know if you are not convinced, I have more to post.


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## batmannow

Congressional Testimony 

FBI (the mumbai)investigations!

Donald Van Duyn
Chief Intelligence Officer
Federal Bureau of Investigation 

Statement Before the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 


January 8, 2009

Good afternoon Chairman Lieberman, Senator Collins, and members of the Committee. I appreciate the opportunity to be here today to discuss the FBIs role in investigating terrorist attacks overseas, including our response to the recent tragic attacks in Mumbai, India. I will also describe how we are working with our U.S. intelligence and law enforcement community partners to apply lessons learned from the Mumbai attacks to protect the U.S. Homeland. 

FBI Role in Overseas Investigations 

Increasingly, the FBI is called upon to address criminal and terrorist threats to U.S. interests in countries across the globe. Advances in technology, communications, and transportation have done more to blur international boundaries in the past decade than ever before. As a result, effectively combating transnational crime and terrorism now requires significantly greater cooperation among law enforcement, domestic security, and intelligence agencies on a global scale.

The FBIs effort to strengthen and expand foreign partnerships in the fight against global crime and terror is coordinated by our Office of International Operations (OIO) at FBI Headquarters (FBIHQ), and carried out by our network of FBI Legal Attaché Offices, located in U.S. Embassies around the world. In the event of a threat to, or actual attack against U.S. citizens or interests abroadand after coordination with the Chief of Mission and host nationthe appropriate FBI operational division deploys investigative personnel and equipment and runs our extraterritorial investigation. The Counterterrorism Division, for example, has the lead for the FBIs investigation of terrorist attacks on U.S. citizens and interests overseas, such as the Mumbai attacks of November 26, 2008, which resulted in the deaths of six American citizens. 

The primary role of OIO and the Legal Attachés is to advance the FBIs national security and law enforcement missions by promoting close working relations with our foreign law enforcement and security service counterparts in every region of the world. In large measure, it is these relationships that directly result in foreign government cooperation and facilitation of FBI investigative activities abroad. These relationships pay additional dividends in the form of prompt and continuous exchanges of information, which greatly contribute to our proactive efforts at terrorism prevention. 

In the aftermath of significant incidents abroad affecting American citizens or interests, the FBI, through our local or regional Legal Attaché, will extend an offer of investigative assistance to the senior leadership of the relevant host-country law enforcement or domestic security partner. Such offers of assistance typically result in varying levels of foreign government law enforcement cooperation, consistent with all host-country legal requirements and with full regard to the sovereign interests of the host government. 

This basic formula describes the FBIs engagement in virtually all investigations abroad of significant extraterritorial incidents, including the Mumbai terror attacks. In this investigation, the strong relationship of our Legal Attaché in New Delhi with our Indian law enforcement and intelligence partners, as well as the quality of the investigative team led by the FBIs Counterterrorism Division, has resulted in exceptional and continuing cooperation.

FBI Role in Mumbai Investigation 

In response to the Mumbai attacks, the FBI obtained approval from the Government of India and the U.S. Embassy in New Delhi to deploy the Los Angeles Rapid Deployment Team (FBI LA) and several critical personnel from FBIHQ to Mumbai. The FBI team arrived in Mumbai on November 29, 2008. The FBI objective was to assist the Indian government with its investigation, determine who was responsible for the deaths of Americans in the attacks, uncover any possible U.S. nexus to the attacks and any other related threats to U.S. citizens or interests abroad, and share intelligence and other lessons learned with rest of the U.S. intelligence and law enforcement communities. The FBI Legal Attaché and Assistant Legal Attaché based in New Delhi also traveled to Mumbai to meet their Indian counterparts, offer any assistance needed, and support the incoming team. On December 17, 2008, several additional FBI personnel were deployed to Mumbai to assist in the local investigation. 

In addition, FBIHQ and FBI LA established 24/7 command posts to support the FBI team in Mumbai. These command posts also helped to process information obtained from the investigation and related interviews, as well as process tactical and strategic analysis to define the overall intelligence picture. 

In Mumbai, the Indian government gave the FBI unprecedented access to evidence and intelligence related to the attacks from the Mumbai Police and the Indian Intelligence Bureau. The FBI was provided access to most of the attack locations and technical evidence recovered from the scenes. The FBI was able to use advanced forensic and technical exploitation techniques to develop critical leads for both the Indian and U.S. investigations. The FBI also conducted more than 60 interviews of individuals in Mumbai, including witnesses with firsthand accounts of the attacks and security personnel who were involved in responding to the attacks. 


Threats Posed by Suspected Sponsors of Mumbai Attackers

The surviving Mumbai attacker has claimed that the Pakistan-based terrorist organization Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LT) provided him training and direction for the attack. The FBI assesses that LT, which is well known to the U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC), remains a threat to U.S. interests in South Asia and, to a lesser extent, the U.S. Homeland. We have no current intelligence indicating that there is an organized LT presence in the United States or that LT senior leadership is seeking to attack the U.S. Homeland. LT does maintain facilitation, procurement, fundraising, and recruitment activities worldwide, including in the United States. For example, in the last few years, US courts convicted several followers of the Virginia Jihad Network of providing material support to terrorism relating to their training at an LT-sponsored training camp in Pakistan, with the intention of fighting against Coalition Forces in Afghanistan. In addition, the FBI is investigating a limited number of individuals across the United States who are linked in some way to LTprimarily through witting or unwitting fundraising for the group, as well as the recruitment of individuals from the United States to attend LT camps abroad. 

Lessons Learned from Mumbai Attacks 

The principal lesson from the Mumbai attacks reinforces the notion that a small number of trained and determined attackers with relatively unsophisticated weapons can do a great deal of damage. Other terrorist groups, to include al-Qaida and its affiliates, will no doubt take note of the Mumbai attacks and attempt to emulate them. What this means for the FBI is that we must continue to maintain a high level of vigilance for all indications of developing terrorist activity. The planning for the Mumbai attacks probably unfolded over a fairly long period with careful surveillance of the target sites and transportation routes. The FBI must continue to work closely with its state, local, and tribal law enforcement partners, especially in our Joint Terrorism Task Forces to follow up on indications of suspicious activity that could potentially be related to terrorism. Similarly, we must carefully monitor travel to participate in terrorist activities or fighting overseas, such as that recently reported by ethnic Somalis traveling to fight in Somalia. As the experience of the United Kingdom indicates, individuals who receive terrorist training or experience overseas clearly represent a threat. In addition, we need to continue to heighten the publics awareness to the continued threat of terrorist attacks and the need to report suspicious incidents. 

As an example of how we have already begun implementing these lessons learned, the FBI worked immediately after the attacks to identify any U.S. links to the planners and attackers. Whenever possible, all information was shared with the Indian government to aid in its investigation. The FBI disseminated more than 15 intelligence reports to the USIC based on information collected in Mumbai from both interviews and physical evidence. These classified reports are available to cleared state, local and tribal law enforcement personnel in Joint Terrorism Task Forces and in State and Local Fusion Centers. In addition, the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) jointly issued an unclassified alert about the attacks to state, local, and tribal officials on November 27, 2008. The FBI and DHS also issued an Intelligence Bulletin on December 3, 2008, to building owners and operators, as well as the U.S. law enforcement community, to alert them to preliminary findings regarding the techniques and tactics used by terrorists in the Mumbai attacks. The bulletin indicated that the FBI and DHS had no credible or specific information that terrorists were planning similar operations against similar buildings in the United States, but urged local authorities and building owners and operators to be aware of potential attack tactics . 

Another lesson learned from the Mumbai attacks is that terrorist groups that appear to be primarily a threat to their surrounding localities can sometimes have broader aspirations. Although LT has historically focused its attacks against Indian forces in the Kashmir region, the Mumbai attacks reinforce the reality that LT has the capability to operate outside its home base. The group did so in 2001 with an attack on the Indian Parliament building in New Delhi and is suspected of having been involved in the 2006 Mumbai train bombings. These actions highlight the need to examine other groups that appear to be active only locally and determine whether they have the operational capability and strategic intention to undertake a more regional or global agenda. 

A great deal of work by federal, state, and local governments has contributed to preventing another attack in the U.S. Homeland since 9/11, but the threat, while somewhat lessened as a result of the successes in the global war on terror, remains. 

Conclusion 

Today, the FBI continues its investigation in Mumbai and has asked to interview other individuals in Indian custody who may be able to provide critical information on attack planning and group leadership. FBI counterterrorism agents and analysts are working to analyze all available information on the Mumbai attacks in order to determine who was responsible, assess lessons learned, determine if the United States may be vulnerable to a similar attack, and determine the threat posed by the groupor individuals tied to the groupto the United States. We are working closely with our USIC and law enforcement counterparts to analyze the vulnerability of the United States to such an attack, and will continue to disseminate information about lessons learned to our partners. 

As the Committee is aware, a primary mission of the Department of Justice (DOJ) in support of the U.S. national security strategy is combating international terrorism and other forms of transnational crime (e.g., trafficking in persons, organized crime, public corruption, money laundering, narcotics, cyber crime, and intellectual property violations). To accomplish this mission, we must have effective partners and law enforcement institutions abroad to address international terrorism and illicit activities used to support terrorism. DOJs international training and development programs make a significant contribution to developing the competence and integrity of local government, thus increasing the capacity of the host nation to provide its population with credible, effective, and sustainable law enforcement, as well as corrections and justice sector institutions that uphold the rule of law. 

DOJs Criminal Division houses two offices devoted exclusively to providing such assistance. ICITAP (International Criminal Investigative Training Assistance Program) develops police and corrections institutions, while OPDAT (Office of Overseas Prosecutorial Development, Assistance and Training) develops prosecutorial and judicial institutions and legislative reform. Both agencies contain sections targeting counter-terrorism. In addition to addressing country specific needs, ICITAP and OPDAT, supplemented by DOJs law enforcement components and prosecutors throughout DOJ, develop programs and institutions designed to increase regional cooperation abroad and between the United States and foreign countries in combating transnational crime. Working with their foreign counterparts, or by establishing bilateral and multilateral working groups, the prosecutors and law enforcement agents discuss best practices and ways to work together more closely in the investigation of transnational crime and to establish mechanisms to share information, evidence and intelligence critical to the successful prosecution of transnational crime. 

In summary, Mr. Chairman, as the threats to our nation and our allies become ever-more globalized, the FBI is expanding our collaboration with our international and U.S. law enforcement and intelligence partners to prevent terrorist attacks and to assist in investigating them when they do occur. We will continue to build on these relationships to advance the FBIs national security mission. And, as we have done with the Mumbai attacks, we will continue to analyze and share lessons learned from these investigations to help prevent future attacks at home or against U.S. interests abroad. 


Congressional Testimony | Press Room Home

FBI.gov is an official site of the U.S. Federal Government, U.S. Department of Justice.

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## kaal2009

I have cited testimony by a U.S. official before a committee of the U.S. Congress (the Senate Foreign Relations Committee) in which he acknowledged United States' sponsorship of extremist and terrorist groups in Pakistan :

"Mitchell Shivers, Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defence for Asian & Pacific Security Affairs, gave the following testimony to the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee on 25 June 2008: ".... elements of extremism and terrorism are at work within Pakistan sponsored by the usa and India." (http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/...next-us-target )."

The testimony in post # 1 of this thread before the U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security about the FBI's 'investigation' of the Mumbai attacks, pretending the U.S. does not know of its sponsorship of those and hundreds of other attacks, was staged to try to cover up and divert attention from that acknowledgment before the other U.S. Senate committee of U.S. sponsorship of extremism and terrorism in Pakistan. The U.S. vice-president-elect, Biden, was the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee before which the above testimony, containing the acknowledgment, was given. His "fact-finding" trip to the subcontinent is similarly meant to try to get 'deniability' as to his participation in these crimes . "Fact-finding" my foot! All these criminal Americans know exactly what they have been doing in the subcontinent.

As I have said in another thread (titled "Why Can't Pakistan Shoot Down U.S. Drones?") on this board, the mumbai attacks were carried out by the C.I.A., through intermediaries such as RAW and similar entities in Pakistan, of course, to provoke military tension/conflict between India and Pakistan so that the U.S. will have an opportunity to greatly expand its attacks on Pakistan, at present mostly limited to drone attacks, which are the start of a U.S. campaign to occupy and recolonise the subcontinent.

Not only has the United States no right to investigate a crime committed in India and should have no access to any evidence, etc., letting it take the position it is taking is making the criminal into a sheriff.

Failing to see what the Americans are up to and treating the criminal as a sheriff on the part of Indians (of course, RAW and many other Indians know about and participate in the Americans' crimes) is due to American propaganda which Indian media carry and the suppression of the news of the crimes of the Americans and their Indian lackeys against the greatest living Indian which are documented and clear as day light. Focusing on these crimes will expose all the other crimes of the United States. But the United States controls the media through RAW.


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## Neo

*Why India must be patient with its former best enemy Pakistan​*Bronwen Maddox, Chief Foreign Commentator 

Unfortunately, the sudden dismissal of Pakistans national security chief is not a sign of progress in the tense talks with India over the Mumbai terror attacks. It is more a sign of the disarray of Pakistans Government.

That goes beyond personalities (although they are huge, and all too relevant). It goes to the heart of Pakistans Constitution, which never made clear enough whether the President or Prime Minister was in charge, and which has not recovered from its remodelling by former President Musharraf.

The Indian Government, now with apparently firm proof that the one captured gunman was Pakistani, can be excused fury and frustration at its counterparts slow-moving vagueness in response. India is entirely justified in calling on Pakistan to do more to crack down on Islamic militants and their sympathisers inside the security services, and to urge the US and others to pile on the pressure too.

But Islamabads lack of coherent response is better interpreted as deep dysfunction, not malice. It is easy (and right) for India to criticise; the harder question is how to help its neighbour, in the next few crucial years, to shut the door on the radicalism that is eroding the few solid pillars of the country.

Pakistan is not a failed state, but it is an unfinished country, with two long borders in dispute, an economy undeveloped because of the block on trade with its giant neighbour, and a Constitution tugged into tatters by the rival claims of presidents, prime ministers, army chiefs and judges.

Those points  the Afghan and Kashmir borders, trade and the most basic institutions  need urgent international attention. The US will play the most important role, and behind that, Britain. It would help if India threw its weight into the search for solutions too.

The best development since the attacks of November 26 has been the tacit determination of the Indian and Pakistani governments not to turn this into war. There has been restraint on the Indian side, and realism, not demanding that Islamabad guarantees an end to all terrorism when it obviously cant. There have been professions of willingness to help from Pakistans President Zardari.

But clear signs point to the hand of Pakistani terror groups, particularly Lashkar-e-Taiba. After Islamabad admitted this week that Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, the captured gunman, had Pakistani nationality, Yousaf Gilani, the Prime Minister, dismissed Mehmood Ali Durrani as National Security Adviser. A rapid response, indicating that Pakistan was treating the matter seriously, you might think. But it is more indicative of Gilanis desire to flex his muscles, in the scrappy battle with Zardari over who runs Pakistan. Durrani was a Zardari appointment, favoured because he had helped him and his late wife, Benazir Bhutto, to make contacts in the US. Gilani, it is said, felt that Durrani was not treating him with respect, not even going through the motions of keeping him informed.

Under Pakistans constitution, the Prime Minister is the executive. But the huge powers that Musharraf seized and bolted on to the presidency muddied a division of powers that was already much less clear cut than in countries that work well.

Zardaris weakness, as an accidental President, stumbling into the role after the assassination of Bhutto in December 2007, has only fuelled the tussle. Ministerial meetings now happen only in response to one crisis after another; the rhythm of regular government has vanished.

The vacuum in Islamabad has led to incoherent responses to the Mumbai crisis, the President and Prime Minister apparently unaware or indifferent to the impact of a delay in responding. India should be credited for its patience. But the muddled, occasionally offensive signals from Islamabad are a symptom of the same problem as the attacks themselves: Pakistans own frozen development.

India wins against its rival on any competition you can devise, from wealth to health to military strength. Indias rise, and Pakistans slide, means that they have outgrown their old symmetrical stand-off, once dubbed the best of enemies. India needs to decide whether it will reconsider concessions it once found unthinkable, on trade, and even on international mediation on Kashmir.


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## zombie

Neo said:


> *Why India must be patient with its former &#8216;best enemy&#8217; Pakistan​*Bronwen Maddox, Chief Foreign Commentator



Maybe the authors country should be subject to a thousand cuts. His advises will stop soon. There is only so much that someone will be ready to subject to it.


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## jeypore

> In an interview with CNN, *Mahmud Ali Durrani said there appeared to be proof that all 10 gunmen had Pakistani roots. Officials from the Foreign and Information ministries confirmed that assertion, but the Foreign Ministry later retracted its statement,* and within hours, government officials and national TV channels reported that Durrani, a former intelligence chief, had been dismissed by Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gillani.



This is the part where everyone gets confused, First Foreign ministry confirms (confirms:to acknowledge with definite assurance) that all 10 have Pakistanie routes. Then later retracted. This gov't since the Mumbai terrorist attack has done this numerous times. The army has been tad bit late in correcting the civil gov't i would say.


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## Subsonic

I guess its time to move on. We are done with the nationality of Kasab and it should not be construed as win for India and vice versa. We must realize that its one step in right direction to fight the common enemy.

For the sake of argument, I would like to have the views of the members here considering this scenario... Around 70 innocent civilians are killed in a railway staion in cold blooded murder, a five star hotel in Karachi is attacked with a hostage situation, with their handlers sitting in Afghanistan armed with Sat phones and VoIP virtual phones guiding those perpertrators to inflict maximum damage. Please comment what you would think if the Afghan govt takes a stand like below:

- These are non-state actors (You already established they came from Afghanistan)

- There is no evidence that the captured terrorist is Afghani, he doesn't exist in our database . 

- We have arrested certain individuals and banned certain organizations (inspite of getting no proof or evidence from you), and almost in the same breath announces we have no clue where these arrested individuals are.

You get the picture. Just please respond honestly, if it involved loss of life in Pakistan at the hands of brutal terrorists.


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## kaal2009

When Biden comes to India, he should be arrested by Mumbai police for participating in crimes of terrorism against India.

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## Khuda Baksh

Mumbai handlers in Pakistan cheer after ordering murders over phone - The Long War Journal

Written by Bill Roggio on January 7, 2009 11:20 PM to The Long War Journal 

The Pakistan-based handlers of the Mumbai terrorists ordered the murders of civilians over the phone and cheered after hearing the gunfire, according to the dossier of evidence India provided to the Pakistani government.

The documents, obtained by the Indian newspaper The Hindu, provides a cold, calculating, and chilling look at the masterminds behind the late November military-style assault on the Indian financial capital of Mumbai. More than 170 people were killed and hundreds wounded during the 60 hour terror spree that shut down the city. The Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistan-based terror group allied with al Qaeda and supported by powerful elements within Pakistans Inter-Service Intelligence agency and the military, carried out the attack.

Six Pakistani handlers monitored the news coverage from Mumbai and kept in constant touch with the terrorists holed up in Nariman House and the Taj Mahal and Trident hotels during the three day siege. The handlers are identified as Zarar, Kafa, Wassi, Jundal, Buzurg, and Major General.

Zarar has been identified as Zarar Shah, the Lashkar-e-Taiba communications expert who set up the network that allowed the Mumbai terrorists to speak with Lashkar-e-Taiba commanders in Pakistan during the attack. He also served as a key liaison between the terror group and Pakistan's Inter-Service Intelligence agency. Zarar is currently in Pakistani custody and has admitted to his role in the Mumbai attacks.

The identity of the other handlers has not been provided, but India has accused elements within Pakistans intelligence service and the military of supporting the attack. The handler identified as Major General implies the involvement of a current or former military officer. The Inter-Service Intelligence agency is a branch of the Pakistani military. The ISI chief and Army corps commanders achieve the rank of Major General or Lieutenant General.






Former ISI chief Hamid Gul.

A senior US military intelligence official familiar with the dossier said that the "Major General" is indeed Hamid Gul, the retired former chief of the ISI. "It's Gul," the official told The Long War Journal. "This is why the US is trying to get him on the UN list of terrorists." In December 2008 the US attempted to get Hamid Gul and other former military and intelligence officials added to the UN list of designated terrorists but has so far been rebuffed.

The Pakistan-based handlers provided real-time intelligence and directed the terrorists to killed specific hostages.

The exchange between Mumbai terrorists Fahadullah and Abdul Rehman operating at the Trident Hotel and their Pakistani handlers provides a terrifying look at the minds of the masterminds behind the attack. The exchange shows they planned and executed the attack for maximum media coverage, ordered the murder of hostages, and cheered after the murders were carried out.

Brother Abdul. The media is comparing your action to 9/11, one unidentified handler said. One senior police official has been killed, referring to the chief of the Anti-Terrorism Squad killed in an earlier gunfight.

We are on the10th/11th floor, Abdul Rehman responded. We have five hostages.

Everything is being recorded by the media, the handler identified as Kafa told Rehman. Inflict the maximum damage. Keep fighting. Dont be taken alive.

Kill all hostages, except the two Muslims, the other handler told Rehman and Fahadullah. Keep your phone switched on so that we can hear the gunfire.

We have three foreigners, including women, Fahadullah said. From Singapore and China.

Kill them, the handler said.

According to the dossier, Abdul Rehman and Fahadullah are recorded ordering all of the hostages except for two Muslims to stand in line. The terrorists then shot and killed the hostages.

The handlers are heard cheering in the background. Kafa then orders the Trident-based terrorists to find the way to go downstairs.

In another exchange, also during the early morning of November 27, one of the terrorists operating from the Taj informed his handler that senior Indian political leaders were in the hotel. The handler excitedly orders the terrorist to find them.

There are three ministers and one secretary of the cabinet in your hotel. We dont know in which room, a handler said.

Oh! That is good news, a terrorist responded.

It is the icing on the cake! Find those 3-4 persons and then get whatever you want from India, the handler said.

Pray that we find them, the terrorist responded.

In a separate call, also to the Taj-based terrorists, the handler reiterates the importance of finding the ministers and orders the terrorists to set the hotel ablaze.

Your work is very important, the handler said. Allah is helping you. The wazir (Indian minister) should not escape. Try and set the place on fire.

In the early evening of November 27, the handler identified as Wassi instructs the terrorists at Nariman House to kill the hostages as soon as they become a burden and hoped to create a diplomatic row between Israel and India. Nariman House is an orthodox Jewish center.

Keep in mind that hostages are of use only as long as you do not come under fire because of their safety, Wassi said. If you are still threatened, then dont saddle yourself with the burden of the hostages. Immediately kill them.

The [Indian] Army claims to have done the work without any hostage being harmed, Wassi then said, referring to the commandos deployed to rescue the hostages. Another thing: Israel has made a request through diplomatic channels to save the hostages. If the hostages are killed, it will spoil relations between India and Israel.

So be it, God willing, one of the terrorist at Nariman House responded.


Click here to read the Indian dossier obtained by The Hindu.The Hindu : Mumbai Terror attacks - Dossier of evidence

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## metalfalcon

> A senior US military intelligence official familiar with the dossier said that the _*"Major General"*_ is indeed Hamid Gul, the retired former chief of the ISI. "It's Gul," the official told The Long War Journal. "This is why the US is trying to get him on the UN list of terrorists." In December 2008 the US attempted to get Hamid Gul and other former military and intelligence officials added to the UN list of designated terrorists but has so far been rebuffed.



Mistake, he is a Retired Lt. General not Major General.

This is Just another piece of BS from India.


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## ajpirzada

and come on its obvious. US is desperately tryin to get Hamid Gul in terror list. and y wouldnt US do this when he is the one who openly speaks against US.


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## hanmya

dont post hate.


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## hanmya

skybolt said:


> OK Jarnee
> u r rite..... for the above... but first lets strike together on the following organisations working in India...
> 
> LIST OF ORGANISATIONS IN INDIA DECLARED AS TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS UNDER THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT
> 
> *1. United Liberation Front of Assam ( ULFA )
> 2. National Democratic Front of Bodoland ( NDFB ) in Assam
> 3. Peoples Liberation Army ( PLA )
> 4. United National Liberation Front ( UNLF )
> 5. Peoples Revolutionary party of Kangleipak ( PREPAK )
> 6. Kangleipak Communist Party (KCP)
> 7. Kanglei Yaol Kanba Lup ( KYKL )
> 8. Manipur Peoples Liberation Front ( MPLF )
> 9. Revolutionary Peoples Front (RPF ) in Manipur
> 10. All Tripura Tiger Force (ATTF)
> 11. National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT ) in Tripura
> 12. Hynniewtrep National Liberation Council (HNLC)
> 13. Achik National Volunteer Council ( ANVC ) in Meghalaya
> 14. Babbar Khalsa International
> 15. Khalistan Commando Force
> 16. International Sikh Youth Federation
> 17. Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
> 18 Students Islamic Movement Of India
> 19. Deendar Anjuman
> 20. Communist Party of India (Marxist-Leninist)-Peoples War, All Its Formations And Front rganisations
> 21. Maoist Communist Centre (MCC), All Its Formations And Front Organisations
> 22. Tamil Nadu Liberation Army (TNLA)
> 23. Tamil National Retrieval Troops (TNRT)
> 24. Akhil Bharat Nepali Ekta Samaj (ABNES)
> 25. Peoples Progressive Party (PPP)/Peoples Progressive Party Civic (PPP-C), All Its Formations And Front Organisations*



That's quite a list, and if our esteemed neighbors have the will and logistical equipment to help us finish off these scumbags then by all means you are welcome to help support the Indian forces to route these morons. But then dont the Pakistani forces have their hands full what with one hand fighting the FATA and NWFP taliban while on the other hand some 'rogue elements' supporting the likes of LeT or HM etc?

Lets know when your hands are free and you will be more then welcome, if willing, to assist the Indian forces to help them against some of these above listed Indian morons. LOL, Yes we do have some morons in India, Mumbai's Raj Thackeray being one of the biggest!!!


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## hanmya

aimarraul said:


> Everyone know where the terrorists come from,If US army could control the terrorists in Afghanistan instead of pursuing them into Pakistan,If Indian did a better job on the national security&#65292;none of these terrorist attacks will happen, US army just make the world worse ,and India is so afraid to make a voice against US,you indian just can't wait to find a reason to start a war in order to divert your attention from your own mess,just like US did in Iraq




Listen my friend,
We all know where the so called "terrorists" originate from. Its an all together different ballgame as to the reasons why these people do what they do! India, China and Pakistan all are having to deal with these cowardly terrorist acts. 
Yes Indian agencies have been caught napping many a times, but then you gotta have a taste of India's environment as to why people here resist more govt control and scrutiny! 

India's in a mess?? Interesting, I wonder why after having stayed there for so many years, and visiting my home after staying here in US, I dont feel/see the mess!! That is a very high handed comment, coming from a person, who if I am right, hasnt even been outside his country let alone India! You my friend have no idea what you are talking about. No Indian denies that there are some problems persisting in India, but surprise, unlike the others, Indian govt along with its people are working these kinks out! Well here's a pointer, the Indian govt doesnt 'tell' people what to do, the govt forms its policies and the Indians work to realize it! BTW India *elects* its representatives, unlike some of our neighbors.

Coming to the topic, FYI, India is not scared to go for surgical strikes in Pakistan because of the 'famous' PAF/PA/PN. The question more importantly is - What would the objectives of such a strike be? Terrorist training camps? Those which are just mere huts and tents in a clearing and which can be moved around on a moments notice? 

Even if India went ahead with a strike, it would only result in a retaliation by the PAF or the PA, which again doesnt make sense regarding the objectives of the strike. This would lead to a full fledged war between the neighbors, and now with the US and ISAF in A-stan and the world's eyes on Pakistan, a full scale war would be very risky, if not devastating, for Pakistan. Not to mention the economic damage it would cause to both these countries. India could still recover from it, but then what about Pakistan? Now that would be asking for trouble in the neighbourhood if Pakistan's economy tanks completely!!

FYI just recently after the Mumbai atrocity by some morons, who co-incidently happened to be Pakistani nationals, there was a feeling that the right wing party would get the upper hand in some states' elections. The results were contrary to the expectations of some right wingers, just goes on to show what and why Indian electorate chose what they chose.

Another angle to be considered with such a strike are the consequences in Pakistani society. Civilian govt power, army coup, army in power ...get the picture? India doesnt want an unstable govt in her neighbourhood, so back off your pseudo-machoistic claims that India is not going forward with strikes in Pakistan because of Pakistani PAF and 'nuculear' weapons!

TIME TO WAKE UP to the real world of realpolitik, my friends!


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## shchinese

The PLA just confirmed that one more Chinese division has been recently deployed to the China-PaK border. 

report in Chinese:
¾ü±¨Ö¤Êµ1¸öÊ¦ÔÚÖÐ°Í±ß¾³¿¦À®À¥ÂØÑÝÏ°_ÍøÒ×ÐÂÎÅÖÐÐÄ


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## haviZsultan

shchinese said:


> The PLA just confirmed that one more Chinese division has been recently deployed to the China-PaK border.
> 
> report in Chinese:
> ¾ü±¨Ö¤Êµ1¸öÊ¦ÔÚÖÐ°Í±ß¾³¿¦À®À¥ÂØÑÝÏ°_ÍøÒ×ÐÂÎÅÖÐÐÄ



Thats what i call brotherhood...


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## Keysersoze

hanmya said:


> Ha Mr. Moderator!
> So you cannot digest an argument which counters your point of view? Doesnt it smack of dictatorial tendencies or is it because Pakistan has been under dictatorial rule for much of its post-independence years that some of the tendencies have brushed off on some of its people?
> 
> Giving the benefit of doubt to the moderator, with all respect, I dont know why the "offending" post was deleted. If it contained foul language, unbecoming of a forum member, then accept my apologies, if not, if it was merely countering your point of view in being anti-Pakistan, then ....



Hanmya you are treading on thin ice here. You do not criticise MODS on a PAKISTANI (you are a guest here after all) website. If you have issue discuss it with the MOD in question and if you feel you have been aggrieved talk to a ADMIN What you don't do is whine about decisions on a open forum.

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## linkinpark

*Fears in US about Mumbai-type attacks
*
*WASHINGTON: The terrorist attacks in Mumbai have dramatically damaged Pakistans image in the United States where a consensus seems to be emerging that the terrorists may be planning a Mumbai like attack on this country as well and that if such an attack happens, it will originate in Pakistan.*

*During the last two days, more than a dozen senior US officials, lawmakers and terrorism experts discussed various scenarios for a possible terrorist attack on the United States. All pointed their fingers at Pakistan.

And these were not unnamed intelligence officials who in the past discussed such scenarios with the US media on the condition that they remained anonymous.

These were all senior officials and lawmakers  such as Gen. David H. Petraeus, the new head of the US Central Command, Ken Wainstein, the White House national security adviser and Senator Joe Lieberman, chairman Senate Homeland and Governmental Affairs committee. And they were all speaking on the record.
*
There were differences among them on the nature of the next terrorist attack on the United States but not on its source. All agreed that the terrorists hiding in Pakistans tribal areas are already planning such an attack.

Before the Mumbai attacks, US officials and terrorism experts focused on terrorists acquiring a so-called dirty bomb; a small nuclear, chemical or biological device big enough to cause serious damage to a major US city.

*But the Mumbai attack seems to have changed their views. US cities are vulnerable to an attack like the gun-and-grenade assault that terrorised Mumbai for three days and killed 179 people, warned the White House homeland security adviser, warned Mr Wainstein.
*
The US Senate Homeland and Governmental Affairs committee, which held a special hearing on the Mumbai attacks on Thursday evening, agreed.

The lawmakers, who participated in the hearing, admitted that they fear a Mumbai like attack could happen in the United States.

And Gen. David H. Petraeus, the man responsible for winning the war against terror, warned that the United States will need to make a sustained, substantial commitment if it wants to stop the Taliban and al-Qaeda militants hiding in Fata from resurging in Afghanistan.

Gen. Petraeus linked Afghanistan's fortunes directly to Pakistan's, where, he observed, a US-backed civilian government was struggling and the country's ability to control militants along its border with Afghanistan was in doubt.

Afghanistan and Pakistan have, in many ways, merged into a single problem set, and the way forward in Afghanistan is incomplete without a strategy that includes and assists Pakistan, and also takes into account Pakistan's troubled relationship with rival India, Gen. Petraeus said.

The need to fight al-Qaeda and Taliban militants hiding in Pakistans tribal region was even included in a national agenda that Democrats issued a day after the new Congress was sworn in.

The Democrats, who are now a majority in the US legislature, want a deeper US involvement in fighting the terrorists hiding in Fata.

Mr Wainstein told a Washington think tank the Mumbai attacks in November showed the effectiveness of a low-technology coordinated assault on an open city.

He did not rule out the possibility of terrorists in Fata acquiring a dirty bomb and recalled that in December of 2001, we and the United Nations designated as a supporter of terrorism a group of Pakistani scientists and former government officials known as the UTN who had worked with the Taliban and had previously discussed nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons with Osama bin Laden.

Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois, the number two Democrat in the Senate, stressed that by refocusing our resources on al-Qaeda, Afghanistan, and Pakistan  we will protect our nation from other deadly weapons and will share more effectively in the fight against terrorism.

Senator Lieberman insisted that they (Pakistanis) and we know that therere terrorist camps inside Pakistan. They need to finish them, he added.

The Pakistanis, he said, also need to ensure that there are no links between terrorists and their intelligence agencies.

*Mr Lieberman said he knew that President Zardari and Prime Minister Gilani were trying to uproot terrorism from their country but unfortunately the contacts between the terrorists and Pakistani intelligence agencies remain.
*
The United States, he said, did not want the alleged terrorist camps in Pakistan to close just because of what happened in Mumbai. We want this because the camps also provide refuge to radical elements from the US and they are risk for our security as well.

Donald Van Duyn, Deputy Assistant Director of the Counterterrorism Division of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, said the attacks in Mumbai show how ordinary weapons can cause mass casualties. It comes as no surprise that a small, disciplined team of highly trained individuals can wreak the level of havoc that we saw in Mumbai. Other terrorist groups will no doubt take note of and seek to emulate the Mumbai attacks, he said.

Those involved in the Mumbai attacks, about 10 in all, were armed with automatic rifles and grenades, and carried global positioning devices when they came ashore on speedboats and descended on hotels and restaurants and other sites, taking and killing hostages.

Charles Allen, the chief intelligence officer at the Homeland Security Department, said his agency is working with intelligence and law enforcement officials in India to identify and monitor would-be terrorists who may be scoping out potential targets here in the United States.


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## Jihad

Source of the article please..?
I find it very one-sided and too biased.


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## linkinpark

Jihad said:


> Source of the article please..?
> I find it very one-sided and too biased.



The link is in the title itself. Just click on the title.

Source is Dawn.


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## shchinese

dimension117 said:


> Thats what i call brotherhood...



let's hope that all three involved countries will have a peaceful 2009.


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## omairhr

Accusation should not be made without evidence: David Mulford
Updated at: 2140 PST, Friday, January 09, 2009 
NEW DELHI: The US ambassador to India David C Mulford said here on Friday that accusations should not be made without evidence in Mumbai terror attacks. When asked by reporters about the Indian Prime Ministers observation that Pakistans agencies could be involved in Mumbai terror attacks, he said I dont think we want to take a view that we make accusations against certain parties without the usual evidences, proofs.

The US has been pressing for deeper understanding in Pakistan of the roots of the problem of terrorism, he said.

When Americans are killed anywhere, we pursue those people and that is what we are upto in Pakistan. We will press ahead and we will do it non&#8209;stop as long as it takes, he said.

Like India, we have a common agendawe want to see Pakistan succeed, not fail, not become a serious problem, not become a failed state. That is the American agenda, media reports quoting him said.


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## hj786

hanmya said:


> Listen my friend,
> We all know where the so called "terrorists" originate from. Its an all together different ballgame as to the reasons why these people do what they do! India, China and Pakistan all are having to deal with these cowardly terrorist acts.
> Yes Indian agencies have been caught napping many a times, but then you gotta have a taste of India's environment as to why people here resist more govt control and scrutiny!
> 
> India's in a mess?? Interesting, I wonder why after having stayed there for so many years, and visiting my home after staying here in US, I dont feel/see the mess!! That is a very high handed comment, coming from a person, who if I am right, hasnt even been outside his country let alone India! You my friend have no idea what you are talking about. No Indian denies that there are some problems persisting in India, but surprise, unlike the others, Indian govt along with its people are working these kinks out! Well here's a pointer, the Indian govt doesnt 'tell' people what to do, the govt forms its policies and the Indians work to realize it! BTW India *elects* its representatives, unlike some of our neighbors.
> 
> Coming to the topic, FYI, India is not scared to go for surgical strikes in Pakistan because of the 'famous' PAF/PA/PN. The question more importantly is - What would the objectives of such a strike be? Terrorist training camps? Those which are just mere huts and tents in a clearing and which can be moved around on a moments notice?
> 
> Even if India went ahead with a strike, it would only result in a retaliation by the PAF or the PA, which again doesnt make sense regarding the objectives of the strike. This would lead to a full fledged war between the neighbors, and now with the US and ISAF in A-stan and the world's eyes on Pakistan, a full scale war would be very risky, if not devastating, for Pakistan. Not to mention the economic damage it would cause to both these countries. India could still recover from it, but then what about Pakistan? Now that would be asking for trouble in the neighbourhood if Pakistan's economy tanks completely!!
> 
> FYI just recently after the Mumbai atrocity by some morons, who co-incidently happened to be Pakistani nationals, there was a feeling that the right wing party would get the upper hand in some states' elections. The results were contrary to the expectations of some right wingers, just goes on to show what and why Indian electorate chose what they chose.
> 
> Another angle to be considered with such a strike are the consequences in Pakistani society. Civilian govt power, army coup, army in power ...get the picture? India doesnt want an unstable govt in her neighbourhood, so back off your pseudo-machoistic claims that India is not going forward with strikes in Pakistan because of Pakistani PAF and 'nuculear' weapons!
> 
> TIME TO WAKE UP to the real world of realpolitik, my friends!



Firstly, I don't think any of the Pakistanis here are your friends. Secondly, it is time for you to wake up to the real world of politics.

You decide for your own country what is a stable government. We will decide what is best for ours. Democratically elected governments in Pakistan have never been more successful than the army-lead goverments. Musharraf's government did great things for Pakistan's economy. 
Go preach about stable governments somewhere else, not to us. Keep your "pointers" to yourself, we don't need them. You can stick your *elected* representatives up your *** too.

Oh and for YOUR information, India is not going for strikes on Pakistan precisely because of the PAF, PA and PN. Your government does not want to declare war on Pakistan because it fears the capabilities of Pakistan's military. A military which is also capable of nuclear strikes anywhere in India. Oh, I'm sorry, you think I am being pseudo-machoistic? Thats funny, most people (certain Indians such as yourself excluded) would call it being realistic. 

It is funny as hell to see people such as yourself saying the same stupid things over and over. If you fools believe Pakistan harbours terror and India can roll over Pakistan in days, why doesn't it do so? That "we don't want Pakistan to become unstable" BS is nothing but an excuse. You guys think Pakistan is a failed state, that Pak's economy is in tatters and cannot recover, that Pak. must be broken up into pieces for the good of mankind, but on the other hand you are too scared to even do surgical strikes? Give me a break.

Take your bullshit somewhere else. Instead of telling people here to "back off" with their "pseudo-machoistic claims," I suggest YOU back off with YOUR pseudo-machoistic claims.

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## Neo

*Gilani says ISIs response forwarded to India​*
By Iftikhar A. Khan

ISLAMABAD, Jan 9: Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Friday said that premier intelligence agencies of the United States and Pakistan had been working closely to untangle the knots of the Mumbai carnage mystery and recently the Inter-Services Intelligence had provided a detailed response to questions and issues raised by US investigators on behalf of their Indian counterparts.

Our ISI has given its feedback, which has been forwarded to India, he told reporters after addressing a seminar on Democracy in Pakistan: Opportunities and Challenges.

He gave no details of the contents of the dossier or the response formulated by a committee, but said Pakistan would cooperate if more information was required. He said India had provided a 52-page dossier to the CIA which was passed on to Pakistan. The dossier was also handed over directly by India to Pakistan.

Mr Gilani said Pakistan was ready to share information sharing with the CIA.

In his address at the seminar, Mr Gilani rejected an impression that he had differences with President Asif Ali Zardari. He said that National Security Adviser Mehmud Ali Durrani had been removed by the president on his advice.

The president knows the rules of business, why would he bypass me, he wondered, saying the action had been taken in the interest of the country and for good governance.

The prime minister regretted the Indian decision to freeze the composite dialogue process with Pakistan. The situation on our eastern borders has once again become very fragile.

Our quest for enhancing peace and security in South Asia remains sincere and steadfast. In the interest of peace and progress in South Asia, our democratic government has done a lot in terms of normalisation of relations between Pakistan and India, he remarked.Mr Gilani said Pakistan had demonstrated an unwavering commitment to the dialogue process with India and the sustained efforts had contributed to an appreciable improvement in the atmospherics between the two countries.

He was of the view that the Indian blame game, media vilification campaign and war mongering in the wake of Mumbai attacks against Pakistan without any concrete evidence had brought the two countries to square one in terms of confidence-building measures.

This was despite the fact that Pakistan was among the first countries to condemn the Mumbai attacks and had taken many steps, including closing down of offices of Jamaatud Dawa, arrest of its leaders and freezing of their assets, he added.

We had also extended our full cooperation to the government of India and offered joint investigation into the incident and a joint commission under NSAs of the two countries. The Indian government has unfortunately refused to accept our proposals. The world must not let tensions between India and Pakistan to escalate.

Mr Gilani said that improved relations with India could provide an opportunity for the two countries to work for resolution of all issues, particularly the Kashmir dispute.

The Kashmir issue must be resolved in accordance with the aspirations of the Kashmiri people. The international community can help in this regard by encouraging both parties to stay the course and demonstrate courage, determination and sincerity.

The prime minister said that although Pakistan was currently passing through a difficult phase, it had the potential to become a regional hub for trade and economic activities.

We need our friends help to overcome our present but temporary difficulties and realise that potential. The people of Pakistan and of this region deserve a better future. To this end, you will find the democratic government in Pakistan fully committed and dedicated, he remarked.

Members of the British Parliament said in their speeches that justice and respect for basic human rights could ensure a better future for the globe.

Voicing concern over brutalities and atrocities being committed by

Israeli forces in Gaza, Jim Devine said he supported the right to self-determination of the people of Palestine.

Israel should withdraw from Gaza and a justified solution is a must for a long-term peace in the Middle East, he asserted.

Mark Fisher observed that Pakistan was in the eye of an international storm. Pakistan needs to adopt a prudent policy to deal with the issue.

MP James McGovern said poverty and illiteracy were main causes of terrorism and Britain had assisted Pakistan in eradicating them.

Mohammad Sarwar, the first Muslim British MP, said the credit of democratic process in Pakistan went to people who exercised their right of franchise despite terror threats. Let me confess that had this case been in Britain, people would have stayed away. Britain was yet to achieve ideal democracy as despite having a 250-year democratic process, we are yet to ensure adequate representation of women and minorities in parliament, he said.

Ambassador Javed Malik, the organiser of the event, said the government had introduced a policy of reconciliation with all political forces to strengthen the democratic process.

PML-Ns secretary general Iqbal Zafar Jhagra and PPP secretary general Jehangir Badr also spoke on the occasion.

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## omairhr

Subsonic said:


> I guess its time to move on. We are done with the nationality of Kasab and it should not be construed as win for India and vice versa. We must realize that its one step in right direction to fight the common enemy.
> 
> For the sake of argument, I would like to have the views of the members here considering this scenario... Around 70 innocent civilians are killed in a railway staion in cold blooded murder, a five star hotel in Karachi is attacked with a hostage situation, with their handlers sitting in Afghanistan armed with Sat phones and VoIP virtual phones guiding those perpertrators to inflict maximum damage. Please comment what you would think if the Afghan govt takes a stand like below:
> 
> - These are non-state actors (You already established they came from Afghanistan)
> 
> - There is no evidence that the captured terrorist is Afghani, he doesn't exist in our database .
> 
> - We have arrested certain individuals and banned certain organizations (inspite of getting no proof or evidence from you), and almost in the same breath announces we have no clue where these arrested individuals are.
> 
> You get the picture. Just please respond honestly, if it involved loss of life in Pakistan at the hands of brutal terrorists.



Well, this is already happening in Pakistan and Pakistan has lost countless civilians and military personnel in 'war' against these 'non state actors'. Please read news of people suffering in the tribal areas of Pakistan because of this 'terrorism' menace. We have also suffered financially through loss of investor confidence in the country. We have also suffered through emerging image of Pakistan Army as 'fighting against its own people'.

Swat Valley used to be one of the most peaceful and beautiful valleys in Pakistan which is a war zone now. There have also been suggestions that RAW in involved in supporting those 'non state actors'.

Its just that Pakistan is not whining enough in the international community. 

Now, please suggest, once Kasab's identity has been established, what should be done? Should Pakistan bomb his village? arrest his parents? or try and fight taliban & co. The second option is what's happening.


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## ajpirzada

a new arms race has started in south asia with both the countries increasing their pace towards acquiring new defence equipments. with world economies already in recession, its a gud news for the defence industries of countries with defence ties with both pakistan and india.


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## fatman17

man it will be long boat ride from karachi - just more hype!!


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## Shiny Capstar

The amount of privately owned guns in America would cut any such attack well short of doing as much damage as Mumbai. Not to mention that the police are better equipped and trained (especially post 9/11) to deal with such an attack than the Indian police.

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## Ratus Ratus

fatman17 said:


> man it will be long boat ride from karachi - just more hype!!



 Sorry, just thought of them in little ruber boats trying to make the distance.

Yes it is hype, but it has its uses with ine US spectrum.

Note it also has a "link" to the aspects of Pakistan and Afghanistan as being a contiguous issue not individual. One that Gen. David H. Petraeus has woken up to.
It also ties in with the need for the US to provide help, economic, to GoP with FATA.


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## Pk_Thunder

*Pak-India standoff at a new crossroad after 43 yrs of Tashqand Pact*​
Updated at: 1311 PST, Saturday, January 10, 2009




Pak-India standoff at a new crossroad after 43 yrs of Tashqand Pact LAHORE: Tashqand Pact, which Pakistan and India had entered after the 1965 war, has this day completed 43 years. The two countries having fought three wars on Kashmir issue after Mumbai attacks now passing through a new face-off era. Pak-India 1965 war had formally started on September 6, when India had crossed the then international border of West Pakistan. United Nations Security Council on September 22 had approved the unanimous cease-fire resolution, which brought the war to an end. Pakistan and India had signed the historical pact on January 10, 1966 at Tashqand city of the then Soviet Union, currently of Uzbekistan. The agreement envisaged that the forces of both the countries would be withdrawn to their positions of April 5, 1965 and abide by the cease-fire clauses on ceasefire line. The agreement was inked by the then Pakistan President, Ayub Khan and the Indian prime Minister, Lal Bahadur Shashtri. These two countries of the sub-continent at wars in 1948, 1965 and 1999 in Kashmir and in 1971 in East Pakistan are now the nuclear powers and passing though a new phase of strife and tension, following Mumbai atrtacks.

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## Anwar2

Mr. Lieberman is the skull capped &#8220;Senator from Tel Aviv&#8221;. The rest thrive on creating sensations, fears and insecurity. Pakistan figures in any scenario as the root of all evils.

It&#8217;s the usual stuff, don&#8217;t take it too seriously!


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## Bilsher007

Anwar2 said:


> Mr. Lieberman is the skull capped Senator from Tel Aviv. The rest thrive on creating sensations, fears and insecurity. Pakistan figures in any scenario as the root of all evils.
> 
> Its the usual stuff, dont take it too seriously!



LieberMAN..a JEW ! .What else can you expect from jewish zionists ? The greatest threat to their existence according to their predictions and theories is pakistan the only muslim nation whose is a nuclear power. It is part of their grand geo stategic plans to neutralize pakistan's nuclear arsenal but with grace of ALLAH this plan will fail miserably. Pakistan's image is damaged in the western world of yanks maybe but the rest well.. i seriously doubt. The root cause of all the ills and mishiefs in the world are related to jewish zionists with grand help from british in the past and presently americans. all this finiancial and economic crisis is designed by jewish zionists to strengthen israel in their plan to build greater israel. They obviously will need funds to occupy neighbouring arabian countries like egypt, lebanon, syria, jordan and part of saudi arabia. The whole banking system is owned by jews, they have full control over major media channels and political arena of USA, UK and other nations. 

Please brothers do me a favour and just bin such threads in the deepest bins you can find. Quote more and more of zaid hamid videos on all topics regarding geo strategic objectivs of americans and israelis.


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## koolio

USA is bad enough with gun crime, street gangs unchallenged so I dont think its unusuall for them to have Mumbai type massacres, dont you read stories where recently some of the schools and universities come under siege from gun totting maniacs going on a shooting spree and it turns out to be non other than crazy Americans.


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## shchinese

hanmya said:


> We all know where the so called "terrorists" originate from. Its an all together different ballgame as to the reasons why these people do what they do! India, China and Pakistan all are having to deal with these cowardly terrorist acts.



But China and Pakistan never just blame neighbors for terrorists. For example, India is hosting a terrorist group named Tibetan Young Congress (TYC) which calls its members to use suicidal attacks against China civil targets to seek Tibetan Independence, what is China's reaction? Did we threaten war on India for hosting such terrorists? 



hanmya said:


> India's in a mess?? Interesting, I wonder why after having stayed there for so many years, and visiting my home after staying here in US, I dont feel/see the mess!! That is a very high handed comment, coming from a person, who if I am right, hasnt even been outside his country let alone India! You my friend have no idea what you are talking about.



so what is your point here? people may talking about the mess in India, which is not against you or your country, it is just about the existing problems there. even you have already acknowledged that there are open problems. why you could turn yourself into personal attacks in such quickly manner? 



hanmya said:


> No Indian denies that there are some problems persisting in India, but surprise, unlike the others, Indian govt along with its people are working these kinks out! Well here's a pointer, the Indian govt doesnt 'tell' people what to do, the govt forms its policies and the Indians work to realize it! BTW India *elects* its representatives, unlike some of our neighbors.



Interesting! tell me the result, please. what they have achieved. let's don't troll, let's just list *stats/facts/results*.

I can start first. The ongoing and recently finished projects in my country:
page 1
page 2 
page 3
page 4
page 5
page 6
page 7
China Mega projects - Page 8 - SkyscraperCity

7 Yuan = $1 USD

the above list goes on much longer and please keep it in your mind that these are all ongoing projects, no overlapping with the recent $600 billion USD committed for the recent world economic crisis. 

*now please tell me what the regime in India has ever done for its people other than sending them to war fields? as I have already said, let's just talk about facts/stats/results, I want details like the above summarized projects introductions, not your trolling words. *



hanmya said:


> Coming to the topic, FYI, India is not scared to go for surgical strikes in Pakistan because of the 'famous' PAF/PA/PN. The question more importantly is - What would the objectives of such a strike be? Terrorist training camps? Those which are just mere huts and tents in a clearing and which can be moved around on a moments notice?
> 
> Even if India went ahead with a strike, it would only result in a retaliation by the PAF or the PA, which again doesnt make sense regarding the objectives of the strike. This would lead to a full fledged war between the neighbors, and now with the US and ISAF in A-stan and the world's eyes on Pakistan, a full scale war would be very risky, if not devastating, for Pakistan. Not to mention the economic damage it would cause to both these countries. India could still recover from it, but then what about Pakistan? Now that would be asking for trouble in the neighbourhood if Pakistan's economy tanks completely!!



you are still threatening people. *is this trolling*?

I don't see anything here to support your point of view/claims, tell me how could you ever be so sure that the PLA would just sit there and watch? tell me how you could ever be so sure that New Delhi/Mumbai won't see incoming DF missiles? 

let me tell you the truth mate: each WS-2D rocket launchers can send 8-12 rockets to your capital city in each round and they are dead cheap. these are not home made rockets you saw on TV these days which Israel is facing, these are rockets with world's longest effective range from the original country which invented rocket hundreds of years ago. 




hanmya said:


> Another angle to be considered with such a strike are the consequences in Pakistani society. Civilian govt power, army coup, army in power ...get the picture? India doesnt want an unstable govt in her neighbourhood, so back off your pseudo-machoistic claims that India is not going forward with strikes in Pakistan because of Pakistani PAF and 'nuculear' weapons!



I can assure you one thing mate - should the above **** happen to Pakistan, you would see the PLA and PA conquering your capital in days. different from you trolling words, my claim above is based on historical stats:

1. During the Korean war, China committed 2 million troops and fought against the UN troops, that is something like fight against the whole world. That war is the only one which forced the US to sign a ceasefire agreement without winning. 

2. During the Vietnamese war, China promised unlimited resources to Vietnam and large number of anti aircraft troops were committed to Vietnam under plain clothes, that includes my uncle who fought against the US as a radar officer. 

3. PLA is the only military force on this world that has ever fought against both the US army and the USSR army during the cold war. The currently status of China in the UNSC is not something given to us for free, we earned that with blood and death. 

do you really want to go against a country/armed force like this? before you start threatening Pakistan friends again, keep my simple word in your mind - China has only ONE single ally, that is Pakistan, should China let Pakistan go through all your described **** above, it would immediately destroy China's international status as a emerging superpower and the 50 years long true friendship with Pakistan would be crashed in moments.

you can keep arguing that China didn't got itself involved in your previous wars, but you have to realise that China was in the shitty cultural revolution at that time which almost destroyed the whole nation and we had russia deployed 1 million of troops on our border, the timing was just not right at that time. thanks to our non-democratically elected government, we are no longer that damn poor country what we was 30 years ago, we have been a peaceful country in the past 30 years without any military conflict which is damn rare in our history. should you try ever attacking our only ally, the consequence has already been well summarized above, please think about it twice.

again, as I have already said yesterday, I hope all three countries will have a peaceful 2009.

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## Omar1984

U.S. police are not cowards like Indian police.... I still cant stop laughing when I see footage of Indian police running away from those lunatics.


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## roopesh

Omar1984 said:


> U.S. police are not cowards like Indian police.... I still cant stop laughing when I see footage of Indian police running away from those lunatics.



Dont laugh dear....US is not neighbor country to pakistan. They can pack up their military team anyday. But India cant do that. It will remain as neighbor country forever with pakistan. Its strategy should be different and it is. Yes mumbai attacks were very badly handled along with loosing top ATS officials. Its a bad show! But this incident made to have more rescue team in every major city! 

Now the topic is unnecessary comment from US. It seems they werent happy with the mess they have created so far in afghan pak and kashmir. Now they are looking to deploy its military. They just have to ensure war continues in this region so India Pak China and Russia will keep facing the problem! US can spare some gas to burn the next street! They are safe at home.


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## Neo

* Tribesmen to retaliate if India imposes war ​* 
Sunday, January 11, 2009

SOUTH WAZIRISTAN: Tribal elders have threatened to strike back if a war was imposed on Pakistan by the neighboring country (India) in the wake of the Mumbai attacks, saying that six million tribesmen would not bear the Indian threats any more.

These views were expressed by prominent tribal elders of North and South Waziristan Agencies while addressing a Jirga here on Saturday.

More than 100 tribal elders of FR Jandola, Kurram Agency, Aurakzai and other agencies were present in the Jirga.

Speaking on the occasion, Malik Muhammad Rafique, Malik Saeed Khan Wazir, Malik Zaram Khan and other elders said the secret agency of India had started new propaganda against Pakistan in a bid to isolate it in the comity of nations.

They maintained that the Indian spy agency had trained Ajmal Qasab with a view to starting the anti-Pakistan campaign. He warned India to talk sense and stop threatening Pakistan, which was fully capable of replying in a befitting manner if a war was imposed.

They reiterated that six million tribesmen would fight shoulder-to-shoulder with the Pakistani Army in any eventuality.


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## IceCold

Neo said:


> * Tribesmen to retaliate if India imposes war ​*
> Sunday, January 11, 2009
> 
> SOUTH WAZIRISTAN: Tribal elders have threatened to strike back if a war was imposed on Pakistan by the neighboring country (India) in the wake of the Mumbai attacks, saying that six million tribesmen would not bear the Indian threats any more.
> 
> These views were expressed by prominent tribal elders of North and South Waziristan Agencies while addressing a Jirga here on Saturday.
> 
> More than 100 tribal elders of FR Jandola, Kurram Agency, Aurakzai and other agencies were present in the Jirga.
> 
> Speaking on the occasion, Malik Muhammad Rafique, Malik Saeed Khan Wazir, Malik Zaram Khan and other elders said the secret agency of India had started new propaganda against Pakistan in a bid to isolate it in the comity of nations.
> 
> They maintained that the Indian spy agency had trained Ajmal Qasab with a view to starting the anti-Pakistan campaign. He warned India to talk sense and stop threatening Pakistan, which was fully capable of replying in a befitting manner if a war was imposed.
> 
> They reiterated that six million tribesmen would fight shoulder-to-shoulder with the Pakistani Army in any eventuality.



This is something which is a thorn in the eyes of both the US and India, when such statements are made, they are at once to claim that taliban want to shift the attention....my foot. They cant even differentiate between taliban and a tribal elder. The fact of the matter is situation isnt that of 71 which Indians likes to brag about, When it comes down to India, we are all united and this is just an example of the unity that we will show once India decides to cross the line.


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## kaal2009

I have been waiting for news of Biden being arrested in India. But he has apparently decided to avoid arrest by skipping India. India must demand his extradition to face trial in India for participating in crimes of terrorism against India. India must also demand extradition of Mitchell Shivers, Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defence for Asian & Pacific Security Affairs, who, without a question, is a participant in these crimes, as well as the C.I.A. Director.

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## kaal2009

The Americans had invaded Panama and brought its head of state, Manuel Noriega, to the United States in chains and he remains in jail in the U.S. for engaging in drug trade. Two decades ago, in a telephone conversation with Mrs. Imelda Marcos, whose husband, the Philippine president, was facing trial in the U.S., I said something close to the following "These (the Americans) are the worst criminals on the face of the Earth. They are Europeans who have usurped the land of other people and committed genocide on them. Each time we buy any thing (in the U.S.), we pay taxes that are being used to commit crimes all over the world by the C.I.A. We have the right to arrest President Reagan and the entire American government and try them under Indian law. It is not the law, the problem is enforcement -- who has got the guns. There is an American saying 'If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns'. These (the Americans) are the biggest outlaws in the world and they have got the guns -- nuclear weapons. And they would like to keep it that way.

That is also why nuclear supremacy over the United States, which I have been advocating, is essential for India.


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## batmannow

kaal2009 said:


> The Americans had invaded Panama and brought its head of state, Manuel Noriega, to the United States in chains and he remains in jail in the U.S. for engaging in drug trade. Two decades ago, in a telephone conversation with Mrs. Imelda Marcos, whose husband, the Philippine president, was facing trial in the U.S., I said something close to the following "These (the Americans) are the worst criminals on the face of the Earth. They are Europeans who have usurped the land of other people and committed genocide on them. Each time we buy any thing (in the U.S.), we pay taxes that are being used to commit crimes all over the world by the C.I.A. We have the right to arrest President Reagan and the entire American government and try them under Indian law. It is not the law, the problem is enforcement -- who has got the guns. There is an American saying 'If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns'. These (the Americans) are the biggest outlaws in the world and they have got the guns -- nuclear weapons. And they would like to keep it that way.
> 
> That is also why nuclear supremacy over the United States, which I have been advocating, is essential for India.





kaal2009, dear sir
i guss, you are very wise person, & your perception about corporate USA, is very amazing, well! ithink the recent tenssions between INDIA & PAKISTAN, are being scripted, some where in the pentagon, & these GORA's still trying to pitch brother against brothers.

sadly there are people like"durani" in both establishments(india & pakistan), working for CIA under cover, for the greatest UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, i hope we can find peoples like you & me, some day,& surly we will break this circle of madness!
all the best, sir 
happay new year to you & your family


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## Pk_Thunder

*Indian PM extends good wishes to Pakistani leaders*​
By Syed Irfan Raza
Tuesday, 13 Jan, 2009 | 02:02 AM PST |

ISLAMABAD: Indian Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh has extended a message of good wishes to President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani for the year 2009 amid severe tension between the Pakistan and India that emerged after Mumbai attacks in November last.
President Asif Ali Zardari will reciprocate the positive gesture of Indian Prime Minister soon, Spokesman for the President Farhatullah Babar told Dawn on Monday.
With all good wishes for the new year, Prime Minister Singh said in a seasons greetings card addressed to President Zardari.
The greetings card carries a picture of a dove with some flowers in his beak on its front and it has been signed by Prime Minister Singh and his wife Gursharan Kaur.
We are considering the good wishes sent by Indian premier as a positive gesture to de-escalate tension between the two countries, the presidents spokesman said. 
He said a white dove on the front of the card symbolizes that Dr Singh desired for good relations between Pakistan and India and urged for the peace in the region instead of heading towards any conflict.
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and President Asif Ali Zardari, who met on the sidelines of annual UN General Assembly session in New York in September, discussed bilateral issues and pledged to combat terrorism jointly during that meeting.
The leadership of Pakistan and India have been stressing on the continuity of peace process between the two countries, with President Zardari always emphasizing that the peace process should not be hijacked by non-state actors.
Now the good wishes extended by Prime Minister Singh to President Zardari through a greetings card, having a dove printed on its front side, also exhibit the same desire of peace and harmony between the two South Asian neighbours.


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## Jihad

What an interesting figure, Mr. Manmohan Singh.
He seems to be schizophrenzic or something, first lashes out threats to Pakistan, and then good wishes to Pakistani leaders, not the first time he does something like this, it goes back and forth.
Ohwell, either way or another, i'm glad he wished our leaders well, perhaps a sign of eased tensions?


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## Pk_Thunder

Jihad said:


> What an interesting figure, Mr. Manmohan Singh.
> He seems to be schizophrenzic or something, first lashes out threats to Pakistan, and then good wishes to Pakistani leaders, not the first time he does something like this, it goes back and forth.
> Ohwell, either way or another, i'm glad he wished our leaders well, perhaps a sign of eased tensions?



May be!Lets wait and see


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## Neo

*Indian newspaper publishes dossier of Mumbai evidence ​*
LAHORE: An Indian newspaper has posted on its website the 69-page so-called dossier given to Pakistan containing evidence that links elements in Pakistan to the Mumbai terror attacks. 

The Hindu post  spread over three sections of the newspapers site  carries the material that emerged during the investigation into the Mumbai attacks. 

The first section of 21 pages contains details of the dates and locations of the attacks, the number of casualties and the names of the people who lost their lives. The section begins with a description of Ajmal Kasab, the lone surviving gunman; his village in Pakistan and his statement on his training at Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LT) camps in Pakistan. The 10-member group that Ajmal was part of was closely monitored by senior members of LT, it says, and goes on to give the names of the nine attackers killed by Indian security forces. The first section also includes details of the terrorists alleged journey to Mumbai from Karachi. 

The second section  containing satellite pictures  includes details of the route to Mumbai and the planned route of return after the attack. Some handwritten scripts and pictures are also part of the second section. 

The last section elaborates Pakistans response to the attacks. It ends with telling Pakistan what it should do: Hand over the conspirators to face justice in India  dismantle infrastructure of terrorism. Prevent terrorist attacks from Pakistan. Adhere to and implement bilateral, multilateral and international obligations. daily times monitor


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## Omar1984

Government sources indicate that the talks between India and Pakistan have been put on hold. The fifth round of the Indo-Pakistan dialogue began just before the Mumbai carnage and the foreign secretaries and home secretaries had met. But since then, all the talks that were due to appear were put to be on hold. In all these cases, dates were being discussed between the two countries, but because of the attacks there is not forward movement on the dates. 

Officially, the government is saying that no dates were fixed but it was clear that the talks were to have been completed by December end. So, there is no chance of talks in the near future. The defence secretary level talks on Siachen have not begun. Both the countries were talking on Siachen. India wanted a line showing troop positions on the map. Pakistan wanted a withdrawal first and now there have been no talks now. 

The Indian and Pakistani governments had got much of the Sir Creek mapped and talks between the two surveyor-generals were going ahead. There was even some optimism in the air regarding at least a partial solution to the problem. The two water resources ministries were to talk on river water sharing, particularly, the Tulbul project, and now there are no dates for talks fixed. The talks between the commerce and culture secretaries of the two countries have also been put on hold.

There is a partial breakdown in communication between the two sides. India has sent two demarches and Pakistan has replied to them in general terms saying that all of Pakistan regretted the attack and wanted a joint probe, but all other information whether it is the house arrest of Masood Azhar or the fact that he is no in Pakistan, has been placed before the media, and India has not been told anything directly. The only communication apart from the demarche was on the air intrusion.

TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos -

Note: Sir Creek is supposed to be oil-rich region on the border of Pakistan's Sindh with India's Gujrat.


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## IceCold

Updated at: 1406 PST, Tuesday, January 13, 2009
Pakistan establishment not involved in Mumbai attacks: Britain NEW DELHI: Britain has said that Pakistan establishment was not involved in Mumbai attacks, every one knows from where the terrorism took place and Pakistan should play its role.

Addressing a press conference here, British Foreign Secretary, David Miliband accompanied by his Indian counterpart told this. He said that millions of Indians and Pakistanis living in Britain wanted peace between the two countries. *He said that Pakistan had no direct connection with the Mumbai attacks and added that it was the responsibility of Pakistan to take actions against Lashkar-e-Taiba*. Terrorism is a threat to Pakistan and Pakistan has to play a key-role for the security of India and Afghanistan, he said.

British Foreign Secretary, David Miliband said that it was imperative that Pakistan remained stable in relation to its security and economy. *Pakistan itself was a victim of terrorism and Benazir Bhutto was also made a victim by it. He said that Pakistans policy against terrorism was correct and it should be enforced*. *He said that judiciary in Pakistan was independent and Pakistan fulfilling its responsibility should punish the culprits.
*
Miliband further said that Mumbai attacks were not related to Pakistan/India, but that of international terrorism and the terrorism could be defeated politically. He said that India behaved responsibly in the aftermath of Mumbai attacks and we considered India a symbol of success in the region.

Indian Foreign Minister, Pranab Mukharjee on this occasion said that India was a victim of cross border terrorism and Pakistan needed to be further pressurized. He demanded from Pakistan to abide by the Saarc charter for anti-terrorism and act upon the evidences provided by us.

Pakistan establishment not involved in Mumbai attacks: Britain - GEO.tv

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## IceCold

It seems that the world has finally started to see the truth and to appreciate Pakistan's stance over the whole thing from the start. 
I wonder what Singh sb has to say after this?


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## IceCold

IceCold said:


> Indian Foreign Minister, Pranab Mukharjee on this occasion said that India was a victim of cross border terrorism and Pakistan needed to be further pressurized. He demanded from Pakistan to abide by the Saarc charter for anti-terrorism and act upon the evidences provided by us.



Indian FM whining again.


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## shocky

IceCold said:


> Updated at: 1406 PST, Tuesday, January 13, 2009
> Pakistan must now accept that it is indeed responsible for the indian attacks, the world forum is behind them for completely a valid reason


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## dabloo

IceCold said:


> It seems that the world has finally started to see the truth and to appreciate Pakistan's stance over the whole thing from the start.
> I wonder what Singh sb has to say after this?



Fine, Pakistan government may be not knowing this, but what about Pakistani Army and ISI.

Can anyone give cleanchit to them also.

Regards
Dabloo


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## IceCold

dabloo said:


> Fine, Pakistan government may be not knowing this, but what about Pakistani Army and ISI.
> 
> Can anyone give cleanchit to them also.
> 
> Regards
> Dabloo



Dude the definition of establishment includes the army and the ISI as well, or are you implying that army and the ISI is not the part of Pakistani establishment. Also if you just happened to pay attention, you would have realized that the foreign secretary used the term Pakistani establishment and not Pakistani political establishment. Hope you get the difference.

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## Omar1984

Pakistan and India were optimistic of finding a partial solution to the disputed territory of Sir Creek, an oil-rich region which divides Pakistan's Sindh from India's Gujrat and then suddenly this Mumbai drama occurs.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...itory-progressing-mumbai-attacks-occured.html


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## dabloo

IceCold said:


> Dude the definition of establishment includes the army and the ISI as well, or are you implying that army and the ISI is not the part of Pakistani establishment. Also if you just happened to pay attention, you would have realized that the foreign secretary used the term Pakistani establishment and not Pakistani political establishment. Hope you get the difference.



Dear friend,

I also know the defination of "ESTABLISHMENT", but kargil war had changed this defination for Pakistan.

Hope you understand.

Regards

Dabloo

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## linkinpark

Omar1984 said:


> Pakistan and India were optimistic of finding a partial solution to the disputed territory of Sir Creek, an oil-rich region which divides Pakistan's Sindh from India's Gujrat and then suddenly this Mumbai drama occurs.
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...itory-progressing-mumbai-attacks-occured.html



Where did the attack came from?. Who wants to stop this peace process?. Even same thing happened with Kargil.


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## IceCold

dabloo said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> I also know the defination of "ESTABLISHMENT", *but kargil war had changed this defination for Pakistan*.
> 
> Hope you understand.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Dabloo



Ohh please, post something related to the topic and something that you can back up rather then derailing the thread by bringing kargil in.
I have already given you the answer in my previous post that British FS used the term establishment which includes every part of it, he did not specify. If we go by the Indian version, as per your PM, the Pakistani establishment was also involved, he clearly mentioned GOP, now how do you back that up and specially in the light of this new statement by Britain and at a time when Indian FM was sitting next to him and as usual whining.


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## Jihad

linkinpark said:


> Where did the attack came from?. Who wants to stop this peace process?. Even same thing happened with Kargil.



Come on now, stop it with the fingerpointing.
Learn to accept your own governments mistakes + handling and learn from them, Pakistan acknowledges her own mistakes, hell, our people acknowledge our leaders mistakes in the past and present.
Why is it so hard for you people to co-operate instead of putting all the blame on Pakistan.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

dabloo said:


> Fine, Pakistan government may be not knowing this, but what about Pakistani Army and ISI.
> 
> Can anyone give cleanchit to them also.
> 
> Regards
> Dabloo



Along with what Icecold said, India's own evidence dossier stated that they found no evidence of Pakistani institutions being involved. 

Sorry, but your PM and FM are going nuts and making statements contradicting their own evidence dossier.


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## Flintlock

^India has said that elements in the Pakistani establishment were involved. Obviously, there is a difference between official involvement and some individuals working in the establishment who help the terrorists. 

Britain is denying the former, while India is alleging the the latter. Two different things.

In any case, the involvement of certain "rogue" elements of the ISI or some other body indicates an ambivalent attitude towards the issue at the official level, at the least. Also called "turning a blind eye".


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## IceCold

Flintlock said:


> ^India has said that elements in the Pakistani establishment were involved. Obviously, there is a difference between official involvement and some individuals working in the establishment who help the terrorists.
> 
> Britain is denying the former, while India is alleging the the latter. Two different things.
> 
> In any case, the involvement of certain "rogue" elements of the ISI or some other body indicates an ambivalent attitude towards the issue at the official level, at the least. Also called "turning a blind eye".



Whatever, doesn't really matter what India says or believes or wants its distracted nation filled with anti Pakistan hatred to believe.The truth of the matter is that World has not only started to see clearly Pakistan's point of view but also accepted that we too are a victim of terrorism and we are all sincere to deal with the menace and no part of Pakistani establishment in involved in Mumbai blasts. Things that were fabricated and facts distorted to suit the Indian agenda i.e to isolate Pakistan in the international community and declared a terrorist state did not happened. So better luck next time.


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## orion

*Mumbai terror attacks prime witness missing, police clueless*

Tue, Jan 13 09:33 PM

Mumbai, Jan 13 (IANS) The sudden and mysterious disappearance of a prime witness in the Mumbai terror attacks has caused a major embarrassment to police and intelligence agencies.

A high-ranking police source said that a major effort is on to track down Anita Rajendra Uddaiya (47), who had seen the group of 10 terrorists landing at the Badhwar Park bay in Colaba Nov 26.

Uddaiya has been reported 'missing' since Sunday and her family members have lodged a complaint with the Cuffe Parade police station.

Deputy Commissioner of Police (Zone I) Vishwas Nangre-Patil Tuesday evening confirmed that a missing person complaint has been received by the police. He, however, declined to elaborate on the matter.

Uddaiya was the first to see the terrorists landing from a motorized rubber dinghy and she even had a verbal exchange with them.

She was taken to the government-run Sir JJ Hospital to identify the bodies of the nine terrorists who were killed during the 60-hour long operation by security forces.

The Mumbai terror attacks at 13 locations left over 170 people dead, including police and security personnel, and 300 others injured.

Of the 10 terrorists who carried out the attacks, only one - Mohammed Ajmal Amir, alias Kasab - was nabbed by the police and is now in detention.

Mumbai terror attacks prime witness missing, police clueless - Yahoo! India News

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## orion

Apparently let 10 terrorists enter undetected into Mumbai.....took 3 days to end the seige with 170 ppl dead....40 days to hand over the 'evidence' to Pakistan...and now they lose the prime witness!
whatever next?

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## Captain03

maybe the witness wasent a witness but just a set-up? 
who knows anything could happen in the world of bollywood

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## koolio

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani on Tuesday said that India has not given Islamabad any evidence on Mumbai terroist attacks but just information.

"All that has been received from India is some information. I say information because these are not evidence," Gilani said while giving a policy statement in the National Assembly.

He said the information received on January 5 needs to be carefully examined which has been sent to the Ministry of Interior for necessary inquiry in accordance with the law. 

The results of the inquiry, the Prime Minister added, will be shared with the government of India in due course of time.

"We are prepared to cooperate with India to uncover full facts and hence offered to India for joint inquiry."

India has, however, not responded to Pakistan's proposals and hoped they will see merit in it and accept joint inquiry, he added.

"Serious sustained and pragmatic cooperation is the way forward."

The Prime Minister reiterated that the country condemns terrorism in all its forms and manifestations and said Pakistan was among the first to condemn Mumbai terror attacks.

Source ARY Oneworld


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## AK-47

NY TIMES

Dossier Gives Details of Mumbai Attacks 

NEW DELHI &#8212; The exchanges are chilling

Document: Copy of the Dossier (External link)&#8220;The hostages are of use only as long as you do not come under fire,&#8221; a supervisor instructed gunmen by phone during the Mumbai attacks in November. He added: &#8220;If you are still threatened, then don&#8217;t saddle yourself with the burden of the hostages. Immediately kill them.&#8221;

A gunman replied, &#8220;Yes, we shall do accordingly, God willing.&#8221; 

These are some of the grim details of the Mumbai attacks compiled by the Indian authorities and officially shared with the Pakistani government on Monday. 

The compilation seems intended to achieve at least two objectives for India: demonstrate that the attackers were sent from Pakistan, and rally international support for India&#8217;s efforts to press Pakistan on its handling of terrorism suspects.

To that end, the dossier, a copy of which was shown to The New York Times, includes previously undisclosed transcripts of telephone conversations, intercepted by Indian authorities, that the 10 gunmen had during their killing spree. They left 163 dead, all the while receiving instructions and pep talks from their handlers across the border.

The dossier also includes photographs of materials found on the fishing trawler the gunmen took to Mumbai: a bottle of Mountain Dew soda packaged in Karachi, pistols bearing the markings of a gun manufacturer in Peshawar, Pakistani-made items like a matchbox, detergent powder and shaving cream.

Beyond that, the dossier chronicles India&#8217;s efforts in recent years to persuade Pakistan to investigate suspects involved in terrorist attacks in India and to close terrorist training camps inside Pakistani territory. In the final pages, India demands that Pakistan hand over &#8220;conspirators&#8221; to face trial in India and comply with its promise to stop terrorist groups from functioning inside its territory.

The dossier was shown this week to diplomats from friendly nations; one described it as &#8220;comprehensive,&#8221; another as &#8220;convincing.&#8221;

Although the dossier takes pains not to blame current or former officials in Pakistan&#8217;s army or spy agency, Indian officials have consistently hinted at their complicity, at least in training the commando-style fighters who carried out the attack.

On Tuesday, the Indian prime minister, Manmohan Singh, upped the ante, but stopped short of naming any specific entities or individuals. &#8220;There is enough evidence to show that, given the sophistication and military precision of the attack, it must have had the support of some official agencies in Pakistan,&#8221; he said.

Pakistan on Tuesday rejected the Indian allegation. &#8220;Scoring points like this will only move us further away from focusing on the very real and present danger of regional and global terrorism,&#8221; Sherry Rehman, Pakistan&#8217;s information minister, said in a statement, according to Reuters. &#8220;It is our firm resolve to ensure that nonstate actors do not use Pakistani soil to launch terrorist attacks anywhere in the world.&#8221;

Pakistan has said it is examining the information sent by India.

The dossier narrates a journey of zeal, foibles and careful planning, one whose blow-by-blow news coverage was followed by handlers, believed to be in Pakistan, and used to caution the gunmen about the movement of Indian security forces and to motivate them to keep fighting.

&#8220;Everything is being recorded by the media. Inflict the maximum damage. Keep fighting. Don&#8217;t be taken alive,&#8221; a caller said to a gunman in the Oberoi Hotel in the early hours of the three-day rampage.

&#8220;Throw one or two grenades at the Navy and police teams, which are outside,&#8221; came one instruction to the gunmen inside the Taj Mahal hotel.

&#8220;Keep two magazines and three grenades aside and expend the rest of your ammunition,&#8221; went another set of instructions to the attackers inside Nariman House, which housed an Orthodox Jewish center.

At the Taj Mahal, the attackers were asked by their counselors whether they had set the hotel on fire; one attacker said he was preparing a mattress for that purpose. At the Oberoi, an attacker asked whether to spare women (&#8220;Kill them,&#8221; came the terse reply) and Muslims (he was told to release them and kill the rest). At Nariman House, they were told that India&#8217;s standing with a major ally, Israel, might be damaged.

&#8220;If the hostages are killed, it will spoil relations between India and Israel,&#8221; one handler said.

According to the investigation into the attack, the 10 gunmen boarded a small boat in Karachi at 8 a.m. on Nov. 22, sailed a short distance before boarding a bigger carrier believed to be owned by an important operative of a banned Pakistan-based terrorist group, Lashkar-e-Taiba. The next day, the 10 men took over an Indian fishing trawler, killed four crew members, and sailed 550 nautical miles along the Arabian Sea.

Each man carried a weapons pack: a Kalashnikov, a 9-millimeter pistol, ammunition, hand grenades and a bomb containing a military-grade explosive, steel ball bearings and a timer with instructions inscribed in Urdu.

By 4 p.m. on Nov. 26, the trawler approached the shores of Mumbai. The leader of the crew, identified by Indian investigators as Ismail Khan, 25, from a Pakistani town in the Northwest-Frontier Province, contacted his handlers. When darkness set in, the men killed the trawler&#8217;s captain and boarded a dinghy, with an engine that investigators said bore marks from a Lahore-based importing company. 

They reached Mumbai about 8:30 p.m., and in five teams of two, set upon their targets: Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, known as Victoria Terminus, the city&#8217;s busiest railway station; a tourist haunt called the Leopold Cafe; the Jewish center in Nariman House; and the Taj Mahal and Oberoi hotels.

They made one mistake, investigators said. They left behind Mr. Khan&#8217;s satellite phone; it was recovered by Indian investigators and its photograph was included in the dossier. A GPS device was also recovered from the trawler.

The last telephone transcript in the dossier was at 10:26 p.m. on Nov. 27, between a gunman inside Nariman House and his interlocutor. &#8220;Brother you have to fight,&#8221; the caller said. &#8220;This is a matter of the prestige of Islam.&#8221;

By the morning of Nov. 29, Indian forces had killed nine of the fighters.

The sole survivor, Muhammad Ajmal Kasab, is in the custody of the Mumbai police. His interrogation turned up one of the most frightening details: he was part of a cadre of 32 would-be suicide bombers, later joined by three more men. Ten went to Mumbai. Six went to Indian-administered Kashmir, Mr. Kasab told his interrogators. 

The dossier says nothing about what happened to the remaining trainees. 

Richard A. Oppel Jr. contributed reporting from Islamabad, Pakistan


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## Neo

orion said:


> Apparently let 10 terrorists enter undetected into Mumbai.....took 3 days to end the seige with 170 ppl dead....40 days to hand over the 'evidence' to Pakistan...and now they lose the prime witness!
> whatever next?



These are valid questions yet to be answered by Indian intelligence.


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## Neo

dabloo said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> I also know the defination of "ESTABLISHMENT", but kargil war had changed this defination for Pakistan.
> 
> Hope you understand.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Dabloo



Don't lecture us and please call Mr. David Miliband if you don't agree with his statement.
I'm sure the definition of "establishment" is not changed in UK.


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## Neo

IceCold said:


> Indian FM whining again.


Yea...he's good at it! 
If only Oscars were given to politicians...we would have a winner here!

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## Bane Blade

Well it is good news but I hope he doesn't have to face the media and be spoken rudely to why don't Indian channels show this on blown proportions with background music and hype didn't they claim that they were truth seekers using pure logic.

The fact remains that after this atleast there is a glimmer of hope that we will ease tensions and reduce the red alert that costs millions of rupees to the taxpayers on a daily basis for both countries. and help us get back to settling in nomal lives.


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## roadrunner

Would be interesting to get hold of Kasab for a day and get his DNA. 

I wouldn't trust the Indians, or any other agency there with his DNA. 

One thinks a deal might have been done, but this sounds fine. 

Pakistan - Not involved in the Mumbai attacks. One rather Hindu, Indian looking, Kalava wearing, Hindi speaking, non state actor perhaps came from Pakistan, originally.


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## Flintlock



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## Flintlock




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## Flintlock




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## Jihad

So still no "hurray" for alot of Indians.
Their government has tried bending the rules of investigation and law by giving insufficient proof and claiming that as valid in response to the Mumbai bombings.
There's still alot that has to be solved and investigated in this matter, and the Pakistani government better not be off-guard on this one, keep an eye on the Indians and their "investigation".


----------



## Flintlock

roadrunner said:


> Would be interesting to get hold of Kasab for a day and get his DNA.
> 
> I wouldn't trust the Indians, or any other agency there with his DNA.
> 
> One thinks a deal might have been done, but this sounds fine.
> 
> Pakistan - Not involved in the Mumbai attacks. One rather Hindu, Indian looking, Kalava wearing, Hindi speaking, non state actor perhaps came from Pakistan, originally.



You're a funny guy, RR. You consider your posts on this forum as some sort of virtual boxing match, trying to score "points" over the Indians with each post.


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## dabloo

roadrunner said:


> Pakistan - Not involved in the Mumbai attacks. One rather Hindu, Indian looking, Kalava wearing, Hindi speaking, *non state actor perhaps came from Pakistan*, originally.



Thanks God,

Atleast you had taken a first step toward believing Ajmal is from Pakistan.

Regards
Dabloo


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## Vinod2070

roadrunner said:


> Would be interesting to get hold of Kasab for a day and get his DNA.
> 
> I wouldn't trust the Indians, or any other agency there with his DNA.
> 
> One thinks a deal might have been done, but this sounds fine.
> 
> Pakistan - Not involved in the Mumbai attacks. *One rather Hindu, Indian looking, Kalava wearing, Hindi speaking, non state actor perhaps came from Pakistan, originally.*



You won't leave it! Even after your lies have repeatedly come out in the open, after the Pakistani government has come out and accepted that he is Pakistani, you are still at it!

*And when did he ever speak Hindi? When did you hear him at all? When did he appear on TV?

You have been asked this question multiple times. Either prove it or stop the useless nonsense!*

And yes he is not a kabayali like 80&#37; of Pakistanis and so doesn't look one! Like all these people, what do they look like to you:







They are all 100% Pakistanis!


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## roadrunner

Vinod, 

This is going to derail the thread. So I'm not going to get drawn into a discussion on this with you here. You may start a new thread, if you have the decency. 

Regarding that pictures, that is too far away to tell anything about the features of the people in that photo. 

They might have spent a bit too long in the sun, alternatively they might be from a particularly Muhajired area of Pakistan, they might all be very tall etc etc. 

Now, you claim that the Pakistan government has the final word, and I am not entitled to free speech? I am not a government agent, I have the right to disagree with any government in the world, and to voice that opinion, unless I was located in Delhi presumably. 

I have my own mind, and I can see inconsistencies that are too great. But I'm willing to ignore them because it is a minor thing that the individual is possibly from Pakistan. 

He spoke crystal Hindi when he was interviewed. 

Any further comment by you here, I will not respond to on these matters. This thread is for another topic.


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## Vinod2070

> He spoke crystal Hindi when he was interviewed.



And when was that?


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## All-Green

It is in everyone's interest to remove terrorism from the region and to do that it is in everyone's interest that Pakistan remains a stable, sovereign state!

Anybody working against this and claiming to be taking action against terrorism either wants to serve the terrorists interests or wants to take a cheap shot at Pakistan when it is already fighting a bloody and extremely tough War.
It should be clear to the world that Pakistan is fighting one of the biggest war against a genuine terrorist threat and pulling our leg will result in dire consequences which most do not realize despite pretending to be well versed in the so called "ground realities"!

At this critical time when Pakistani people are blown up by suicide bombers Should anyone in his right mind assume that we support such activities?

The extremist elements seeped into this region during the Afghan War and some of them have become part of Al-Qaeda.
They were indoctrinated with very rigid teachings of some pretty tough Wahabis and have zero tolerance for even other sects in Islam!
Before Afghan War there was no sectarian violence in Pakistan and no terrorist cells operating in the name of religion. If anything, these people are the biggest anti Islam/anti Pakistan operation in the world.
I am a Sunni Muslim but i have no problems with any other sect in Islam, since i tend to focus on our commonality and not petty difference which we are accountable for in front of Allah.
No way Islam sanctions in any way what these barbarians are doing and no way do the Pakistani people ever support such acts!!!

I do not consider India a friend and will say so openly (since i am not a hypocrite) but i will never support the killing of innocents in any country be it India or any other country.
(Even despite what Jews are doing to Palestinians i still would never say that what Hitler did to them was a good thing. It was a horrible thing to kill so many innocents and Israel should do well to remember their own suffering and not to do the same thing to others).

In this current scenario if India is sincere in attacking terrorism then they should support Pakistan and provide intelligence and carry out the shared investigation as suggested by GOP.
Pakistanis are sick of these murderers and we shall appreciate the help but not the warmongering! Pakistan can take care of these elements but intelligence sharing is the key here.

Also as a further measure of their sincerety, GOI should also stop supporting BLA which is a terrorist outfit and share intelligence on the BLA (Baluch Liberation Army) which was being helped by RAW from Afghanistan.
Indian Intelligence is already operating in Afghanistan and i believe can help Pakistan deal with this growing threat...if they want an end to terrorism.

We are already cleaning our house but these goons shift between Afghanistan and Pakistan depending upon the pressure exerted.
Afghanistan government (if it can be called that) has no control and is constantly pointing fingers. They need to talk less and *do more* regarding the porous border.

Destabilizing Pakistan will bring disaster to India as well, that's what happens when you are neighbors...you cant set fire and avoid getting burnt.

My advice is to get real and realize the implications before threatening Pakistan instead of carrying out a mutual investigation!


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## Vinod2070

roadrunner said:


> Vinod,
> 
> This is going to derail the thread. So I'm not going to get drawn into a discussion on this with you here. You may start a new thread, if you have the decency.
> 
> *Regarding that pictures, that is too far away to tell anything about the features of the people in that photo.
> 
> They might have spent a bit too long in the sun, alternatively they might be from a particularly Muhajired area of Pakistan, they might all be very tall etc etc. *
> 
> Now, you claim that the Pakistan government has the final word, and I am not entitled to free speech? I am not a government agent, I have the right to disagree with any government in the world, and to voice that opinion, unless I was located in Delhi presumably.
> 
> I have my own mind, and I can see inconsistencies that are too great. But I'm willing to ignore them because it is a minor thing that the individual is possibly from Pakistan.
> 
> He spoke crystal Hindi when he was interviewed.
> 
> Any further comment by you here, I will not respond to on these matters. This thread is for another topic.



The decent thing would be for you to acknowledge the facts on the ground and move on.

I have no great fascination with the looks of people. So no need for me to open any thread. It is better not to tie oneself all over in knots with some useless belief and then look for silly explanations all the time when the reality turns out to be different as it inevitably does.

It may be a minor thing now for you but you did make it a major one for so long with the kalava theory in endless posts. But I agree with the point of free speech here.

His being from Pakistan leads to several other things that are not minor at all.



Vinod2070 said:


> If you care to look beyond the fact of his being Pakistani, you can see a huge organization that provided the training, motivation, logistics etc. for the 10 terrorists to carry out the inhuman acts. It proves that there are still terror organizations operating freely perhaps with official support that are a menace to the region and beyond, that there are legions of young men willing to kill themselves and other innocents with them for some imaginary gains in the afterlife. That Pakistan is a threat to the world as long as this policy continues.
> 
> Just try to think beyond the first step and things will be more obvious!


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## Flintlock

When was he interviewed?


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## IceCold

The decent thing for all Indians to do is to accept that GOI is creating issues out of nothing and for one purpose in mind that is to hurt Pakistan's image in any manner they could do. So when ever the Indian government sees things are not moving as planned, they come out with another allegation, this time the Indian PM made one about the GOP's involvement or some elements of the GOP as Indians like to put it, the fact is who do you think you are kidding, world has started to realize how much truth lies in these so called allegations of India and this is clearly shown now in their response every time India whines about Pakistan's involvement or perhaps handing over of the list of people that India thinks are in Pakistan.
The sooner Indians have a look at their own house and figure out that the problem lies within and not outside, the better it would be for the whole region and world, my advice to Indians would be to do not let your government make a fool out of yourself as you are well aware that your elections are near and therefore creating war hysteria and blaming everything on Pakistan is considered to be a shortcut to victory.


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## Vinod2070

> When was he interviewed?



Never AFAIK. He has never appeared on TV.

*RR is either mistaken or being deliberately mischievous.*


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## Vinod2070

IceCold said:


> The decent thing for all Indians to do is to accept that GOI is creating issues out of nothing and for one purpose in mind that is to hurt Pakistan's image in any manner they could do. So when ever the Indian government sees things are not moving as planned, they come out with another allegation, this time the Indian PM made one about the GOP's involvement or some elements of the GOP as Indians like to put it, the fact is who do you think you are kidding, world has started to realize how much truth lies in these so called allegations of India and this is clearly shown now in their response every time India whines about Pakistan's involvement or perhaps handing over of the list of people that India thinks are in Pakistan.
> *The sooner Indians have a look at their own house and figure out that the problem lies within and not outside, the better it would be for the whole region and world*, my advice to Indians would be to do not let your government make a fool out of yourself as you are well aware that your elections are near and therefore creating war hysteria and blaming everything on Pakistan is considered to be a shortcut to victory.



Isn't it clear that the terrorists came from Pakistan and must have had significant support in terms of training, motivation, logistics et al?

If true how is it an internal problem of India?


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## Flintlock

Been watching Zaid Hamid eh?



IceCold said:


> The decent thing for all Indians to do is to accept that GOI is creating issues out of nothing and for one purpose in mind that is to hurt Pakistan's image in any manner they could do. So when ever the Indian government sees things are not moving as planned, they come out with another allegation, this time the Indian PM made one about the GOP's involvement or some elements of the GOP as Indians like to put it, the fact is who do you think you are kidding, world has started to realize how much truth lies in these so called allegations of India and this is clearly shown now in their response every time India whines about Pakistan's involvement or perhaps handing over of the list of people that India thinks are in Pakistan.
> The sooner Indians have a look at their own house and figure out that the problem lies within and not outside, the better it would be for the whole region and world, my advice to Indians would be to do not let your government make a fool out of yourself as you are well aware that your elections are near and therefore creating war hysteria and blaming everything on Pakistan is considered to be a shortcut to victory.


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## dabloo

IceCold said:


> The decent thing for all Indians to do is to accept that GOI is creating issues out of nothing and for one purpose in mind that is to hurt Pakistan's image in any manner they could do. So when ever the Indian government sees things are not moving as planned, they come out with another allegation, this time the Indian PM made one about the GOP's involvement or some elements of the GOP as Indians like to put it, the fact is who do you think you are kidding, world has started to realize how much truth lies in these so called allegations of India and this is clearly shown now in their response every time India whines about Pakistan's involvement or perhaps handing over of the list of people that India thinks are in Pakistan.
> The sooner Indians have a look at their own house and figure out that the problem lies within and not outside, the better it would be for the whole region and world, my advice to Indians would be to do not let your government make a fool out of yourself as you are well aware that your elections are near and therefore creating war hysteria and blaming everything on Pakistan is considered to be a shortcut to victory.




What does you mean by issue out of nothing, killing of 180 innocent people is a no issue for you, only because a bunch of Terrorist from Pakistan were responsible for this.

About list of people, you can ask Mr.Javed Miandad, who is Dawood Ibrahim and can also check this link :KASKAR DAWOOD IBRAHIM

We are not facing the election for the first time in 60 years to be fooled, It are you who are fooled during every election because, after 1-2 years of election you just find your Army General in the seat of President, General Kiyani is also in the line.

Regards

Dabloo


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## IceCold

Vinod2070 said:


> Isn't it clear that the terrorists came from Pakistan and must have had significant support in terms of training, motivation, logistics et al?
> 
> If true how is it an internal problem of India?



Non state actors, India has no evidence of Pakistani establishment's involvement of any sort. By God if they did, Singh sb would be standing on his chair shouting at the top of his voice with Mukher ji following the lead. 
The recent statement made by the British FS should be enough to take of the blinds, Indian public is made to wear, thanks to the GOI and your media.


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## IceCold

Flintlock said:


> Been watching Zaid Hamid eh?



Who??:


----------



## IceCold

dabloo said:


> What does you mean by issue out of nothing, killing of 180 innocent people is a no issue for you, only because a bunch of Terrorist from Pakistan were responsible for this.
> 
> About list of people, you can ask Mr.Javed Miandad, who is Dawood Ibrahim and can also check this link :KASKAR DAWOOD IBRAHIM
> 
> We are not facing the election for the first time in 60 years to be fooled, It are you who are fooled during every election because, after 1-2 years of election you just find your Army General in the seat of President, General Kiyani is also in the line.
> 
> Regards



I see you are having some comprehension problems understanding my post. Ahh well no surprise. Let me put it straight for you, you guys need to wake up and smell the coffee and not just follow GOI who is making a mockery out of you Indians by blaming everything on Pakistan. In this regard i would suggest you read Arjun Rampal's comment when he was asked to comment over the whole thing, he said it is very easy for us to blame Pakistan right away because that diverts the attention from the failures of our own government, agencies and what not and this has to change.
Do you know that the widow of the police officer that got killed has refused to accept the investigation report presented to her about her husband's death.
Seriously wake up before it gets too late.


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## Vinod2070

IceCold said:


> Non state actors, *India has no evidence of Pakistani establishment's involvement of any sort.* By God if they did, Singh sb would be standing on his chair shouting at the top of his voice with Mukher ji following the lead.
> The recent statement made by the British FS should be enough to take of the blinds, Indian public is made to wear, thanks to the GOI and your media.



Even if that is true, isn't it up to Pakistan to dig out the terrorists from their dirty trenches and make them face justice?

Have they done that? Are they doing that?

Isn't your PM just trying to dodge the issue in a most pathetic manner by producing all sorts of useless alibis and hair splitting like a khoja baniya?


----------



## dabloo

IceCold said:


> I see you are having some comprehension problems understanding my post. Ahh well no surprise. Let me put it straight for you, you guys need to wake up and smell the coffee and not just follow GOI who is making a mockery out of you Indians by blaming everything on Pakistan. In this regard i would suggest you read Arjun Rampal's comment when he was asked to comment over the whole thing, he said it is very easy for us to blame Pakistan right away because that diverts the attention from the failures of our own government, agencies and what not and this has to change.
> Do you know that the widow of the police officer that got killed has refused to accept the investigation report presented to her about her husband's death.
> Seriously wake up before it gets too late.



True Dear,

This time i don't understand anything, but this one :

Do you know that the widow of the police officer that got killed has refused to accept the investigation report presented to her about her husband's death.

made me completly blank.

Bye

Regards
Dabloo


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## IceCold

Vinod2070 said:


> Even if that is true, isn't it up to Pakistan to dig out the terrorists from their dirty trenches and make them face justice?
> 
> Have they done that? Are they doing that?
> 
> Isn't your PM just trying to dodge the issue in a most pathetic manner by producing all sorts of useless alibis and hair splitting like a khoja baniya?



So what do you want us to dig, empty vessels? You guys have no prove what so ever and yet you have the audacity to come out with a comment like that. Seriously no one is buying this, not even the closest allies of India.


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## IceCold

dabloo said:


> True Dear,
> 
> This time i don't understand anything, but this one :
> 
> Do you know that the widow of the police officer that got killed has refused to accept the investigation report presented to her about her husband's death.
> 
> made me completly blank.
> 
> Bye
> 
> Regards
> Dabloo



No surprise.


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## Flintlock

IceCold said:


> So what do you want us to dig, empty vessels? You guys have no prove what so ever and yet you have the audacity to come out with a comment like that. Seriously no one is buying this, not even the closest allies of India.



Since Ajmal is Pakistani, it is now the duty of Pakistan to investigate the matter and determine how and why a Pakistani citizen landed up in Mumbai with a team of well-trained jehadis with a plan to wreak havoc all over the city. 

India has already provided a comprehensive dossier of evidence to help you guys out.

After all this, if Pakistan is still not able to pursue the leads, then it is further decreasing the already rock-bottom prestige and standing of Pakistan.

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## Vinod2070

IceCold said:


> So what do you want us to dig, empty vessels? You guys have no prove what so ever and yet you have the audacity to come out with a comment like that. Seriously no one is buying this, not even the closest allies of India.



You seriously think Pakistan doesn't have the details to carry out her investigation.

That they are doing all they could to get to the bottom of the issue, to bring the terrorists and their backers to justice.

They have the details of each of the 10 attackers for weeks. The details of their backers for long. What exactly has been done till now except a grudging acknowledgment that Kasab is a Pakistani after the most pathetic denials for weeks.

Let me know why do you think Pakistan government is doing the best it can?


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## IceCold

Flintlock said:


> Since Ajmal is Pakistani, it is now the duty of Pakistan to investigate the matter and determine how and why a Pakistani citizen landed up in Mumbai with a team of well-trained jehadis with a plan to wreak havoc all over the city.
> 
> India has already provided a comprehensive dossier of evidence to help you guys out.



First of all this isn't what we are talking about, don't change the damn subject which is about Pakistani establishment's involvement into the whole thing as stated by your PM. All i am asking where's the evidence? Even the Brits have made it clear that Pakistani establishment is not involved.
Moreover let me ask you what was your Navy or the coast guards doing when an unidentified boat was in Indian waters and that too for days, which they claim have brought the terrorists to Indian soil.
Whatever India did provided, Pakistan immediately acted, don't you think we would be spinning stories then if our intentions were bad. India at one stage was not even willing to share the evidence and was only demanding Pakistan to handover the so called culprits. It was not until India was pressurized to hand over the evidence and even then that did not said anything other then yeah of course Ajmal is a Pakistani, a Pakistani that has no record of being a Pakistani, speaks hindi, wears an Indian (whatever you call it) on his arm and somehow gets captured alive only to tell yeah he is a Pakistani. Pakistan has on numerous occasions asked for an access to this Ajmal Kasab, yet denied, may i ask why? What is GOI so afraid of that they don't allow access to this so called Pakistani citizen by the respective country. Moreover Pakistan has on numerous occasions asked India to investigate it jointly, lets develop a mechanism and investigate the matter, the answer is again NO, so then again what do you want us to act upon, baseless allegations or better yet GOP itself because now they have being charged by your PM.



> After all this, if Pakistan is still not able to pursue the leads, then it is further decreasing the already rock-bottom prestige and standing of Pakistan.



You shouldn't be worried about that since a decrease in our reputation will help India in the long run, don't you think?


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## IceCold

Vinod2070 said:


> Let me know why do you think Pakistan government is doing the best it can?



I don't think at all that GOP is doing the best it can to handle the whole issue. For me it would have been best if we would have slapped right across the Indian face when they violated the PAF airspace for the first time. The remains of the Mirage inside the Pakistani territory would have proved Indians about our intentions to solve the whole issue. There is no better way to prove it otherwise.

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## dabloo

IceCold said:


> No surprise.



10 Terrorist from Pakistan killed about 180 people in Mumbai : No Surprise

Geo TV reached the village in Pakistan of one Terrorist Ajmal Kasab : No Surprise

Nawaz Shariff (former PM) admits Ajmal is Pakistani : No Surprise

Ajmal Kasab Father's recognised his son : No Surprise

Durani sacked for accepting Ajmal as Pakistani : No Surprise

Well now you surprised me........

No Regards

Dabloo


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## IceCold

dabloo said:


> 10 Terrorist from Pakistan killed about 180 people in Mumbai : No Surprise
> 
> Geo TV reached the village in Pakistan of one Terrorist Ajmal Kasab : No Surprise
> 
> Nawaz Shariff (former PM) admits Ajmal is Pakistani : No Surprise
> 
> Ajmal Kasab Father's recognised his son : No Surprise
> 
> Durani sacked for accepting Ajmal as Pakistani : No Surprise
> 
> Well now you surprised me........
> 
> No Regards
> 
> Dabloo



What was it then again??


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## revivepak

Far be it from me to break your state of stupor
So far its not been established that state actors are responsible for mumbai carnage and yes if non state actors are involved offcourse it will take time. Calm down . If your government shows quarter of seriousness with which you post here they may come up with better dossier than the beauty box we have recieved.

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## Neo

*Anatomy of the Indian case​*Ijaz Hussain 

Why is the Indian government employing coercive diplomacy to achieve its objectives when it can easily sort out contentious issues through a joint investigation? The answer to this question is that a joint investigation, bilateral or multilateral, simply does not suit India

In the wake of the Mumbai mayhem, the Indian government has been making one demand after another. It started when, without producing any evidence, it asked the latter to accept the Pakistani nationality of Ajmal Kasab. The matter had hardly been sorted out when it came out with more demands. It now wants the Pakistani government to accept that the remaining nine terrorists are also Pakistanis, and to extradite their handlers to India for prosecution.

India has also upped the ante by accusing Pakistans intelligence agencies of being behind the Mumbai incident, and the Pakistan government of employing terrorism as an instrument of foreign policy. The Pakistani government on its part has asked for hard proof before it acts or has rejected the demands. More importantly, it has suggested joint investigation but India is not at all amenable to the idea.

Are the latest Indian demands and charges justified? What are the Indian motives in acting this way?

As far as the Indian demand that Pakistan should accept the Pakistani nationality of the remaining nine terrorists is concerned, it is reportedly based on the discovery of items like toothpaste, shaving cream, T-shirts, etc. with Made in Pakistan labels. This is no evidence at all as any court worth its name would throw it out.

Similarly, the argument that the American FBI has authenticated the Indian claim cannot be accepted for two reasons. First, the Americans have a vested interest in supporting India because they always wanted Pakistan to do more in the war against terror, and the present incident provides them with a golden opportunity to put pressure on it to do so. Second, the American agencies are not trustworthy as testified by the fact that the CIA (along with British intelligence) got it absolutely wrong on the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, which provided a pretext to the Bush Administration for the 2003 invasion.

Incidentally, if the Indian government is wrong in demanding without hard evidence, the Pakistan government too is wrong in hiding behind Indias failure to provide the necessary evidence. It gives the impression as if the latter wants to run away from its obligations. This was the fallout of the Kasab case. Whether or not the Indian government provided it with hard evidence on Kasabs nationality, it should have promptly investigated the matter on its own.

GEO TV and Dawn separately conducted investigations and discovered that Kasab was indeed a Pakistani. And they did so almost a month before the Pakistani government. Had the Pakistan government done so on its own and promptly, it would have earned global appreciation for its commitment to the fight against terrorism and would have also denied the Indian government the victory that it is now claiming in the matter. The best thing for the Pakistani government in the present situation is to conduct its own investigation into the nationality of the remaining terrorists rather than wait for hard evidence to emerge.

As far as the demand for extradition of the terrorists handlers is concerned, both international and regional laws tend to favour Pakistan. For example, extradition in international law normally takes place on the basis of a treaty, reciprocity or courtesy, which are absent in the present situation. Besides, the question of whether or not the individual for whose extradition request has been made is an extraditable person is also important because the individual to be extradited should be the national of the requesting state or of a third state but not that of the state to which the request is made. Since the terrorists handlers are supposedly Pakistanis, they are not extraditable persons. Hence Pakistan is not bound to extradite them.

At the regional level, the SAARC Terrorism Convention (1987) is not of much help to India either, because in the absence of an extradition treaty between the parties it leaves the question of extradition to the discretion of the requested state. That means that Pakistan will not accede to the Indian demand. If international and regional laws do not bind the Pakistan government to extradite terrorists handlers, it does not mean that it can let them go unpunished. It is under obligation to prosecute them under its own relevant national laws.

Regarding the Indian allegation of the involvement of Pakistani intelligence agencies, India justifies it on the ground that, given the sophistication and military precision of the attack it must have had the support of some official agencies in Pakistan. There are two problems with this line of argument.

First, it presumes Pakistan guilty and puts the onus on it to prove its innocence whereas the basic principle of law is the opposite. The Indian charge puts the law upside down. Second, the presumption on which the Indian line of argument is based, namely that non-state actors are incapable of mounting very sophisticated and precise operations is not valid. Consider 9/11 or some of the recent terrorist attacks in Pakistan, which were highly sophisticated and precise, and which were mounted by non-state actors. No wonder that the American ambassador to India has rebuked the Indian government on this count and advised it, to be very very careful in making those kinds of allegations unless [there is] very concrete evidence to that degree of specificity.

It is obvious from the above that the Indian demands are unreasonable and the Indian charge of Pakistans intelligence agencies involvement outrageous. To make Pakistan toe the Indian line, the Indian government has placed its troops close to Pakistans border (on the pretext of routine winter exercises) and its air force on forward bases. Besides, the Indian defence minister is mostly busy hurling threats of war by repeating the mantra of all options on the table. (It is amusing that after all this, Mr Mukherjee claims that Pakistan is whipping up war hysteria).

Why is the Indian government employing coercive diplomacy to achieve its objectives when it can easily sort out contentious issues through a joint investigation? The answer to this question is that a joint investigation, bilateral or multilateral, simply does not suit India, as among other things it would reveal the extent of local involvement in the terrorist attack. Consider the following.

It is amazing that a handful of terrorists kept the whole city hostage for sixty-two hours and struck at different places at will in addition to killing about two hundred people. This raises some serious questions.

If the terrorists came by sea, as India claims, how did they cover more than six hundred nautical miles undetected, particularly at a time when the Indian navy (and a blue navy at that) was engaged in exercises? Did they bring all the weaponry (which must be considerable) with them, and if so, how did they do it? How did they get these weapons inside the Taj without being detected?

These and a host of other questions lead to the conclusion that there must be a strong autochthon involvement in the Mumbai terrorist attack. If this is so, a joint investigation obviously does not suit the Indian government. That possibly explains why the Indian government is so keen on coercive diplomacy rather than a joint investigation.

The writer is a former dean of social sciences at the Quaid-i-Azam University. He can be reached at hussain_ijaz@hotmail.com

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## Neo

*Chidambarams futile threatening statement​*
Indias Home Minister Mr P Chidambaram has reacted to Pakistans alleged refusal to respond to Indias demand for cooperation over the Mumbai attack by saying that New Delhi might consider snapping all links with Pakistan. He said on Monday that Pakistan had provided nothing and accused it of doing nothing to assist India to bring to justice the perpetrators of the attacks. Challenged on steps he would take if Pakistan did not comply, he said: There are many, many links between India and Pakistan, and if Pakistan does not cooperate and does not help to bring the perpetrators to heel, those ties will become weaker and weaker and may one day snap. Why would we entertain Pakistani business people? Why would we entertain tourists in India? Why would we send tourists there?

What is supposed to cause hardship is the embargo on tourism and visits by divided Muslim families. But far more dangerous than this would be the decision to stop communicating normally with each other. What happens between states when they break off formal diplomatic relations, often by withdrawing ambassadors and harassing the staff left behind, is well known. Tensions go up as the two try to outguess each other, followed by inflammatory statements by the leaders, usually resulting in concentration of troops on the border which then leads to accidental exchange of fire and minor skirmishes which can lead to bigger conflicts. South Asia has seen that happen before. Wars have been fought without much benefit to anyone, which the world sees as futile along with a growing number of South Asians who recommend a change of paradigm in Indo-Pak relations.

Indias post-Mumbai strategy has been flawed to the extent that it has progressively lost international support for its maximalist demands. Pakistan is not the worlds favourite in the current situation but Indias repeated reference to war in its all options open statements has cautioned the extra-regional powers against backing everything that India says. But such is the pressure of domestic politics months before the next general election that Indian leaders continue to flip-flop between all options open and war no option. Mr Chidambarams innovation of snapping relations is another effort to keep the pressure on Pakistan by indirectly threatening war. On the other hand, every time India does this, Pakistans otherwise weak position improves vis-à-vis world opinion.

Afghanistans President Hamid Karzai, visiting New Delhi, has talked about the difficulty Kabul could face if Pakistan was distracted from its campaign against the Taliban because of tensions with New Delhi. He could be voicing the American and European fear that an Indo-Pak conflagration could simply dismantle all efforts so far made to contain and eliminate world-threatening terrorism from the region. Threats also play into the hands of the hardliners in Pakistan who talk about giving a befitting reply to India. India needs international support to get Pakistan to do what it wants Pakistan to do. But it loses this support the moment it talks of starting hostilities. There is also a paradox involved in going the multilateral route. The countries India has to rely on to influence Pakistan have their own interests at stake too in the region and beyond. It is therefore not possible for India to get them to lean heavily on Pakistan to the exclusion of those interests.

So, while the world may have sided with India, it cannot bull in to tame Pakistan as desired by India. The situation is far too complex for that to happen. US President-elect Barack Obama has already talked about Kashmir as holding the key not only to peace between Pakistan and India but also success in the war on terror. That is a signal India has to heed if it wants the kind of cooperation that is obviously important for overall economic progress of the region. India has already handed over the dossier to Pakistan and some evidence has forced Pakistan to own up Ajmal Kasab. But after handing over the dossier, India should have waited for Pakistans response. The theory in New Delhi that Pakistan responds only to threats is all wrong. The truth is that every time India threatens Pakistan, the response from Islamabad is hostile. In consequence, a routinely conciliatory Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani has started talking tough because of Indias threatening stance. The Foreign Office has also offered an initial negative comment on the dossier by saying it is one-sided. If India handles the developments inside Pakistan right, there is no doubt that Pakistan will be under obligation to follow through on its decision to track down the perpetrators of Mumbai.

The maxim that has emanated from fifty years of Indo-Pak relations is this: one cant front-load solutions for normality; one has to normalise first and then expect disputes to get resolved. Wars have been fought in the past with no positive result. And one cannot say that future wars will be any less negative. What is needed today is cooperation against the terrorists.

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## Vinod2070

^^ A sensible article.


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## Solomon2

>>I guess its time to move on. We are done with the nationality of Kasab and it should not be construed as win for India and vice versa.

Certainly it is a loss for Pakistan. I've read many of the comments here since the Mumbai attacks and on the whole they reflect poorly on Pakistanis: convenient lies, half-truths, evasions, these were all employed on the pretext of "defending Pakistan". Don't you think that had Pakistan's government been open and pro-active and you yourselves honest from the beginning this would have served you and your country better? 

If nothing else, it was a betrayal of those Pakistanis, soldiers especially, who see lawlessness and terrorism as Pakistan's number-one enemy and have fought hard to destroy it from within their country's breast. Now there isn't a Pakistani anywhere who can claim a level of dignity equal or superior to that of the ordinary Israeli, Indian, or Westerner who is willing to take his lumps along with his pride. Nice going, guys.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Solomon2 said:


> >>I guess its time to move on. We are done with the nationality of Kasab and it should not be construed as win for India and vice versa.
> 
> Certainly it is a loss for Pakistan. I've read many of the comments here since the Mumbai attacks and on the whole they reflect poorly on Pakistanis: convenient lies, half-truths, evasions, these were all employed on the pretext of "defending Pakistan". Don't you think that had Pakistan's government been open and pro-active and you yourselves honest from the beginning this would have served you and your country better?
> 
> If nothing else, it was a betrayal of those Pakistanis, soldiers especially, who see lawlessness and terrorism as Pakistan's number-one enemy and have fought hard to destroy it from within their country's breast. Now there isn't a Pakistani anywhere who can claim a level of dignity equal or superior to that of the ordinary Israeli, Indian, or Westerner who is willing to take his lumps along with his pride. Nice going, guys.


Hog wash and distortions. I'm surprised you still consider yourself capable of 'taking your lumps with your pride, but then this comes from a defender of the atrocities and occupation of the Israelis and the Indians so perhaps it shouldn't be a surprise.

You constructed a strawman and then used it to denigrate Pakistan and Pakistanis. Pakistan's position, and that of many Pakistanis, was that India had to share evidence with Pakistan, both on the identity of Kasab and the Mumbai attacks for Pakistan to bring any alleged perpetrators to task.

The argument was that any investigation had to be conducted in Pakistan according to Pakistani laws, and India had to provide the evidence to Pakistan to do so. How is this position flawed?

What you would have us do, base on a few exchanges we had, was to merely hand over whoever India was demanding and accept whatever they were saying without any cooperation or sharing of evidence - that is the really a poor reflection on yourself, India and those Indians who defended this absurd demand to set aside due process and the rule of law.

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## Solomon2

>>Pakistan's position, and that of many Pakistanis, was that India had to share evidence with Pakistan, both on the identity of Kasab and the Mumbai attacks for Pakistan to bring any alleged perpetrators to task.

That attitude is indeed the root of the problem. For Pakistan insisted on retaining this position even after Pakistani law enforcement, including local police, knew much of the truth. Thus anger is rooted in the fact of Pakistan's attitude that it is always the duty of others to present proof, rather than Pakistan's responsibility to keep a clean house itself. While seen as sensible by Pakistanis, it is repulsive to many, including me. For it implies that such activity is approved by Pakistanis as long as Pakistan can get away with it. No wonder Pakistan today is seen as the breeding ground of much of the world's terrorism!

>>this comes from a defender of the atrocities and occupation of the Israelis and the Indians

You are trying to denigrate me and my opinion by associating me with something Pakistanis are supposed to detest. The implication is that my argument is sensible. 

Now consider the flip side: why, if what Solomon2 is saying is so sensible, does it come from "a defender of the atrocities and occupation of the Israelis and the Indians"? Could it be that your perceptions of who I am, what I defend, or what "occupation" is are flawed? Could this be a typical and repeated Pakistani error? Why else would East Pakistan have seceded if they didn't consider themselves "occupied" and why is Pakistan in danger of falling apart now if not from atrocities disguised as other deeds?

Quit fooling yourselves and take responsibility for your actions or lack thereof. When you do that, Pakistan will gain more than its current fig-leaf of dignity. 

Consider what happened to France in The Dreyfus Affair; once all the ugly details were out, French justice and democracy could be respected by others, as they couldn't before. And that occurred due to just a handful of people. Out of their pursuit for truth and justice, they elevated the French nation to a higher level of morality. Don't you think a fitting pursuit would be for you to do the same for Pakistan?

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## Pk_Thunder

*Miliband urges world to help Pakistan hunt terrorists*​
Updated at: 2248 PST, Wednesday, January 14, 2009
Miliband urges world to help Pakistan hunt terrorists NEW DELHI: International community will have to support Pakistan in combating terrorism, British Foreign Secretary David Miliband said on Wednesday.

Addressing a press conference here, Miliband said that terrorists are affecting Pakistan too. He said terrorism is a challenge for Pakistani government and called for world community to extend full support to Islamabad in terror war.

He further said: President Asif Ali Zardari is fully committed to take action against the terrorists.

It may be reminded here that British Foreign Secretary Miliband is currently on the visit of India as part of his efforts to defuse Pakistan-India tension. He will fly to Pakistan after Indias visit.
B


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## Neo

*Pakistan dismisses Indian data as 'not evidence'​*
Wed Jan 14, 2009

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan  Pakistan's prime minister downplayed the significance of an Indian dossier on the Mumbai terrorist attacks, saying it is not evidence  and drawing an angry response from New Delhi on Wednesday.

India says the dossier shows that Pakistani militants staged the November slaughter of 164 people. India specifically blames Lashkar-e-Taiba, a militant group believed to have links to Pakistani intelligence.

Pakistan only recently acknowledged that the only surviving Mumbai gunman was Pakistani, but it insists none of its state agencies played a role in the attacks. Under international pressure, Pakistan has detained some suspects allegedly linked to the attacks, while repeatedly calling on India to provide evidence to allow legal prosecutions.

"All that has been received from India is some information. I say information because these are not evidence," Yousuf Raza Gilani told Parliament late Tuesday, according to the Associated Press of Pakistan.

The dossier, handed over on Jan. 5, included transcripts of phone calls allegedly made during the siege by the attackers and their handlers in Pakistan. Previously, India had given Pakistan a letter from the lone surviving gunman, Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, that reportedly said he and the nine other gunmen were Pakistani.

In his statement, Gilani said Pakistan was continuing to examine the dossier and urged "pragmatic cooperation" between the sides.

Speaking in New Delhi, Indian External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee called Gilani's comments part of a "continuing pattern of evasiveness and denial" over the attacks.

"These reinforce the already strong doubts which exist on Pakistan's stance on terrorism from Pakistan and on its capacity and willingness to cooperate with other countries against terrorism," Mukherjee said.

The Mumbai attacks are the latest crisis to roil ties between the two nuclear-armed neighbors, who have already fought three wars since gaining independence from Britain in 1947.

In particular, Pakistani observers have warned that the incident could set back tentative steps toward resolving issues such as the disputed territory of Kashmir.

Islamabad has handled the crisis clumsily, and typical "tit-for-tat" responses by the two sides will produce no constructive result, said Asad Durrani, a former head Inter-Services Intelligence, Pakistan's main spy agency.

Violence continued elsewhere in Pakistan on Wednesday, when gunmen on a motorcycle shot and killed four police officers near the city of Quetta in the southwestern province of Baluchistan, said Mohammed Ishtiaq, an area police chief. Police were still investigating the motive for the shooting.

Baluchistan has long been the scene of a low-level insurgency, with militant groups seeking greater regional autonomy and a larger share of revenue from its natural resources.

In a separate incident there Wednesday, a roadside bomb critically wounded seven paramilitary troops in Dera Bugti district, some 310 miles (500 kilometers) east of Quetta, said Muhammad Ashfaq, a senior police official.

Sarbaz Baluch, a purported spokesman for the Baluch Republican Army, one of the main militant groups in the province, said the group staged the attack out of revenge after a large portrait of a slain nationalist Baluchi leader was removed from the area.

He claimed four troops were killed and six wounded.


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## Neo

*Pakistan shares Indian dossier with Saudi Arabia ​*
** Both countries agree to fight terrorism together​*
LAHORE: Pakistan shared a dossier handed over by India regarding the Mumbai terror attacks with the visiting Saudi intelligence chief, while briefing him on Islamabads progress of its own probe into the incident, a private TV channel reported.

Saudi Arabias intelligence chief Prince Muqrin Bin Abdul Aziz was on Wednesday briefed by Interior Adviser Rehman Malik on matters relating to the Mumbai terror attacks and the regional security situation.

The channel said Prince Muqrin sought joint efforts by Pakistans political forces to de-escalate tension in the Subcontinent. 

Malik told the Saudi envoy Pakistan would share its findings into the Mumbai attacks as soon as the probe was completed, adding Pakistan would not hand over any person found linked to the incident to India, the channel added.

Any action against those found guilty would be initiated in Pakistan in accordance with the countrys laws, the channel quoted Malik.

Prince Muqrin praised Pakistans efforts in combating terrorism and improving the law and order situation in the country, sources told Daily Times.

Terrorism: Both the sides agreed to work in close cooperation in various matters of bilateral interest, including the fight against terrorism.

According to the sources, the Saudi intelligence chief said both Saudi Arabia and Pakistan wanted to eliminate terrorism, as those involved in such activities were bringing a bad name to Islam. Muqrin assured Islamabad of the Saudi governments full cooperation in this regard. Interior Secretary Kamal Shah was also present in the meeting. 

Earlier on Tuesday, Muqrin had met top political leaders of the country, including Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, Nawaz Sharif, Shahbaz Sharif, Qazi Hussain Ahmed, Fazlur Rehman and Imran Khan at the Saudi embassy in Islamabad.

Muqrin had delivered Saudi King Abdullah Bin Abdul Aziz Al Sauds message, which urged the Pakistani political leadership to show solidarity and resolve their internal differences through dialogue to bring the country out of prevailing crises.

The Saudi intelligence chief is also likely to visit India and Afghanistan as part of a drive to defuse tensions in the region. The visit is a follow-up of the Saudi foreign ministers visit to the region after the Mumbai terrorist attacks.


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## Vinod2070

^^ That is correct. We see the repeated pathetic attempts to link this tragedy to unrelated events.

Trying to get away seems to be the only motive.


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## IceCold

Updated at: 1153 PST, Thursday, January 15, 2009
*India got intelligence five days before Mumbai attacks: Tehlka MUMBAI: India government had received the vital and critical intelligence five days before Mumbai attacks which had been simply ignored*.

According to Indian web site Tehlka.com, sources in the highest quarters in New Delhi have told that the mobile numbers that were used by the Mumbai terrorists were available with the Intelligence Bureau at least five days before 26/11.

Highly placed sources shared the contents of a Secret note that contains 35 mobile numbers. Of the 35 SIM cards, 32 had been purchased from Kolkata and three from Delhi and sent to Pakistan-adminstered Kashmir by mid- November.

Highly placed sources reveal that crucial and stunning piece of information was received by the Intelligence Bureau (IB) on 21 November, at least five full days before Ajmal Amir Kasav, the lone surviving terrorist and his nine accomplices got off the inflatable dinghy at Mumbais Badhwar Park on the evening of 26/11.


The Prime Minister and Home Minister are aware that for all the five crucial days that the numbers were available, they were not being monitored. The lapse is all the more critical because at least three of the 32 numbers contained in the Secret note, were the exact same cell numbers that the Mumbai terrorists used to keep in touch with their handlers in Pakistan.

It is well possible that the terrorists only activated their mobile numbers after reaching Mumbai but that does not excuse the fact that the numbers were not put under surveillance despite the knowledge that they had been sent to trained militants in ***.

On 18 September, for example, the Research and Analysis Wing had intercepted a satellite phone conversation, which clearly indicated that a hotel at the Gateway of India in Mumbai would be targeted.

Crucially, the intercept also revealed that the sea route would be used to launch this operation. Again, on 24 September, RAW recorded another conversation. This time, the hotels were mentioned by name and they included the Taj, the Sea Rock Hotel and the Marriott hotel. If these inputs were being analysed, it would have become clearer that hotels in Mumbai would be attacked and that the sea route would be used.

Security breached ease with which Mumbai came under attack brought back the question of internal security.

India got intelligence five days before Mumbai attacks: Tehlka - GEO.tv


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## IceCold

And yet they blame us while the problem lies within.


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## afriend

IceCold said:


> And yet they blame us while the problem lies within.



There goes the usual blame game. Thank you for exposing our weakness and loop holes in our system. Now can we have the terrorists please..!!!!!


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## IceCold

afriend said:


> There goes the usual blame game. Thank you for exposing our weakness and loop holes in our system. Now can we have the terrorists please..!!!!!



Very typical of you. No surprise at all.


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## binzaman

*Extract from tehelka.com report. *


Highly placed sources shared the contents of a &#8216;Secret&#8217; note that contains 35 mobile numbers. Of the 35 SIM cards, 32 had been purchased from Kolkata and three from Delhi, by &#8220;overground&#8221; workers of the Lashkar-e-Toiba, and sent to Azad Kashmir by mid- November. The precise contents of the &#8216;Secret&#8217; note could not have been more direct: &#8220;The numbers given below have been acquired from Kolkata by overground workers (OGWs) and have been sent through Pakistan trained militants based in Kashmir to ***. These numbers are likely to emerge in other parts of the country. These numbers need to be monitored&#8230;&#8221; The note contains more: &#8220;These numbers need to be monitored and the information taken from these numbers regarding the contents of the conversation, current locations of the call detail records are required for further developing the information. The monitoring is possible at Kolkata.&#8221;

Highly placed sources reveal that this crucial and stunning piece of information was received by the Intelligence Bureau (IB) on 21 November, at least five full days before Ajmal Amir Kasav, the lone surviving terrorist and his nine accomplices got off the inflatable dinghy at Mumbai&#8217;s Badhwar Park on the evening of 26/11. The Prime Minister and Home Minister are aware that for all the five crucial days that the numbers were available, they were not being monitored. The lapse is all the more critical because at least three of the 32 numbers contained in the Secret note, were the exact same cell numbers that the Mumbai terrorists used to keep in touch with their handlers in Pakistan. It is well possible that the terrorists only activated their mobile numbers after reaching Mumbai but that does not excuse the fact that the numbers were not put under surveillance despite the knowledge that they had been sent to trained militants in ***.


Further the report says


On 18 September, for example, the Research and Analysis Wing had intercepted a satellite phone conversation which clearly indicated that a hotel at the Gateway of India in Mumbai would be targeted. Crucially, the intercept also revealed that the sea route would be used to launch this operation. Again, on 24 September, RAW recorded another conversation. This time, the hotels were mentioned by name and they included the Taj, the Sea Rock Hotel and the Marriott hotel. If these inputs were being analysed, it would have become clearer that hotels in Mumbai would be attacked and that the sea route would be used.

THIS IS not all. Again on 19 November, RAW picked up another piece of conversation in which a voice

said, &#8220;We will reach Bombay between nine and 11.&#8221; RAW tracked the coordinates of the call and frighteningly discovered that it came from the sea near Mumbai. RAW passed on this vital piece of information to the IB who in turn sent it to the Navy but the terrorists, who were first aboard the hijacked trawler MV Kuber and subsequently on the inflatable dinghy, still managed to sail into Badhwar Park, ironically, almost at the promised time: between nine and 11.


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## ahmeddsid

If this is true, then Its an Utter Failure of Indian Intelligence (or Lack of Intelligence). 

Anyways this report doesnt liquidate the fact that Kasab is a Pakistani and the terrorists sailed in from Pakistan. I hope Pakistan cracks these ***** down and Hangs them by a tree!


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## afriend

IceCold said:


> Very typical of you. No surprise at all.



Well thats the problem.. we dont surprise each other at all..!! For a change, Trust Us and accept the truth of Mumbai attacks, and help us bring the culprits of 26/11 to the books. We are not asking a part of pakistan, but just the terrorists who are creating problems in the entire reigion and india...!!!!


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## Evil Flare

India can stop 26/11 from happening ... but it didnot

where is billions of Rupees going ?
to get these crappy agencies who do nothing & at the end just BLAME BLAME


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## ahmeddsid

Aamir Zia said:


> India can stop 26/11 from happening ... but it didnot
> 
> where is billions of Rupees going ?
> to get these crappy agencies who do nothing & at the end just BLAME BLAME


But arent these Crappy agencies the ones you blame for the Unrest in Balochistan without any EVIDENCE?


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## binzaman

ahmeddsid said:


> If this is true, then Its an Utter Failure of Indian Intelligence (or Lack of Intelligence).
> 
> Anyways this report doesnt liquidate the fact that Kasab is a Pakistani and the terrorists sailed in from Pakistan. I hope Pakistan cracks these ***** down and Hangs them by a tree!


*
This report strengthen the speculation in Pakistani people that Indian agencies played all this drama. *. For five full days they waited for the intruders??? i still can't understand why RAW (who is very active in counter terror attacks) kept scilance. and right after attack they started blaming Pakistan. As they were ready to howl right after the attacks....... Thats a big question mark but i am hopeful the complete truth will be revealed someday.


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## Silverfalcon

afriend said:


> Well thats the problem.. we dont surprise each other at all..!! For a change, Trust Us and accept the truth of Mumbai attacks, and help us bring the culprits of 26/11 to the books. We are not asking a part of pakistan, but just the terrorists who are creating problems in the entire reigion and india...!!!!



so why are you telling us this.

Go directly to the masterminds of the Mumbai attack , RAW , you,ll get the answers, or you can rotate the name RAW and find out what they want, A WAR.

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## ahmeddsid

binzaman said:


> *
> This report strengthen the speculation in Pakistani people that Indian agencies played all this drama. *. For five full days they waited for the intruders??? i still can't understand why RAW (who is very active in counter terror attacks) kept scilance. and right after attack they started blaming Pakistan. As they were ready to howl right after the attacks....... Thats a big question mark but i am hopeful the complete truth will be revealed someday.


What do u mean to say? GOP has said Kasab is a Pakistani, do u mean to say that Kasab and Co were Hired from Pakistan like those Suicide bombers on Hire??? Conspiracy Theories Galore!!!


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## Evil Flare

Its very easy to capture a **** guy !!!! & to do Brain Wash

just a thaught


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## binzaman

ahmeddsid said:


> What do u mean to say? GOP has said Kasab is a Pakistani, do u mean to say that Kasab and Co were Hired from Pakistan like those Suicide bombers on Hire??? Conspiracy Theories Galore!!!



Here we are not talking about the identities. Don't mock the facts and topic we are talking about the Indian Agencies, who were aware of all this drama. The question about Kasav was a pakistani or not or either LeT involved or not is not being discussed here dude. so stick to the topic plz


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## binzaman

Aamir Zia said:


> Its very easy to capture a **** guy !!!! & to do Brain Wash
> 
> just a thaught



Yup as a Pakistani Lawyer Farooq Advocat who fought Kasav case in nepal for Kasav's missing. But we are discussing indians role here


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## afriend

Silverfalcon said:


> so why are you telling us this.
> 
> Go directly to the masterminds of the Mumbai attack , RAW , you,ll get the answers, or you can rotate the name RAW and find out what they want, A WAR.



There you go..!! Are you saying that this entire terror attack, and the investigations that was held with full transperency, which included FBI, supported by the visual,electronic, audio and hard evidence and the confessions of a pakistani citizen confirmed by your government who was seen killing many people and their communications with the elements in pakistan all are all these fabricated?????? Are you saying that the raw fabircated all this drama so that our economy can be hampered ????? Well with such glaring facts staring at your face, and still you are not willing to trust us..!!! Then yeah we dont and are never gonna surpirse each other ever..!!!!!!


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## ahmeddsid

fine I rest My case! Kasab is Indian!


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## binzaman

ahmeddsid said:


> fine I rest My case! Kasab is Indian!



lolzzzz so you are the next indian PM. Cos you can change the statements quickly.. Best of Luck


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## ahmeddsid

binzaman said:


> lolzzzz so you are the next indian PM. Cos you can change the statements quickly.. Best of Luck


Naaah, I am better off in the RAW!


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## Silverfalcon

*Riddle :

Who is the country that kills its own people, and then does a propaganda saying that some other country has done it ?

Hint : it starts with an I ends with an I*

_no reward for giving the correct answer, as even a 3 year old knows it_

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## binzaman

Plz plz tell us atleast a day before the next drama (like happend in mumbai) taking place in india....


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## ahmeddsid

sure, next drama in about 2 weeks time, dress rehearsals are going on, we are thinking of broadcasting it first on TV to see the public reaction, If it gets good TRP ratings, then We will go on full scale Production. We are hiring Spot/light boys, you can apply


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## ahmeddsid

MODS please Merge this thread with the other one


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## binzaman

ahmeddsid said:


> sure, next drama in about 2 weeks time, dress rehearsals are going on, we are thinking of broadcasting it first on TV to see the public reaction, If it gets good TRP ratings, then We will go on full scale Production. We are hiring Spot/light boys, you can apply




*Jo Garajtay hain woh barastay nahi*


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## nwmalik

as wise people say
"prevention is better than cure"
or
"stitch in time saves nine"

but maybe there are no wise people in RAW and other indian intelligence agencies.
But mistakes can occur. And with so much info which is available, much of which in the end not correct or useful, looking back is easy to say important information was missed.
But the problem is the indian attitude. Pakistan is responsible for all that goes wrong in india.

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## IceCold

afriend said:


> Well thats the problem.. we dont surprise each other at all..!! For a change, Trust Us and accept the truth of Mumbai attacks, and help us bring the culprits of 26/11 to the books. We are not asking a part of pakistan, but just the terrorists who are creating problems in the entire reigion and india...!!!!



Dude have you even bothered to read the article that i just posted. It clearly says India had the intelligence 5 days back, who stopped them from not acting? Did Pakistan do it, NO, so why coming on us to do this do that. Clearly the GOI had other intentions in mind and that is why they purposely did not act inorder for them to create what ever Drama India wanted to isolate Pakistan and give it a bad name.
After this i have not doubt left that this one is yet again another one of GOI makings that they usually do create in order to cause whatever damage that they may to Pakistan and suspending everything from trade to CBMs and threatening for a military action adds to this thinking.
GO and question your own government and not us. We are done providing justifications.


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## afriend

IceCold said:


> Dude have you even bothered to read the article that i just posted. It clearly says India had the intelligence 5 days back, who stopped them from not acting? Did Pakistan do it, NO, so why coming on us to do this do that. Clearly the GOI had other intentions in mind and that is why they purposely did not act inorder for them to create what ever Drama India wanted to isolate Pakistan and give it a bad name.
> After this i have not doubt left that this one is yet again another one of GOI makings that they usually do create in order to cause whatever damage that they may to Pakistan and suspending everything from trade to CBMs and threatening for a military action adds to this thinking.
> GO and question your own government and not us. We are done providing justifications.



Brother.. there more things than this, the sketchs of the places attacked on 26/11 was recovered from the people who attacked CRPF camp long before the 26/11 happened.. But still indian inteligence failed to adequately decode and act upon the infromation.. *All the information that you said does point only to one thing the indian inteligence faliure..!!!! **That doesnt take away the fact that the handler and masterminds are from pakistan* *Brother... Giving pakistan a bad name is not as important as keeping our brand clean..!!! * And one thing we agree atleast, that we are done providing and hearing justifications.. there is not going to be any visisble change in your approach..!!! Only god can help us now..!!!!


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## ejaz007

*More Evidence Of Lashkar Role, More Evidence Of Our Bungling*

By HARINDER BAWEJA


Ruptured Silence Blood splayed on the platforms in the CST after the shootout Photo Deepak Salvi' What makes terrorism particularly threatening at this moment is the impression of vulnerability combined with the display of greater sophistication in techniques and methodologies of terrorist outfits. The challenges before us are to demonstrate that we have both the capability as well as the sophisticated instrumentalities to anticipate and overcome the shifts and changes in terrorist methods. We cannot, therefore, afford to conceptualise narrowly. We must not react merely to immediate events.

This is the underlying message contained in the Home Ministers letter inviting you to this meeting. It is important at this juncture to demonstrate our combined will, and for that we are effectively galvanising the internal security system to deal with future terrorist attacks. Technology is empowering nonstate actors across the globe and it is necessary for us to come up with a comprehensive strategy that combines the best of technological and human capabilities within the country to defeat terrorism in all its manifestations.

The Home Minister has already outlined a number of steps that have been taken in recent weeks to erect additional mechanisms to counter future terrorist attacks. The main message is that we need to break down barriers to informationsharing between the various agencies.

What I would add is that we need better intelligence and perhaps, more importantly, sophisticated assessment and analysis of the intelligence that is available. Complaints are often heard that the intelligence provided by the agencies is not actionable. All intelligence produced is actionable, though it may not always be specific. It depends on the capability and ingenuity of those who assess the information to further develop and convert the fragmentary pieces of intelligence into a complete whole and for those who have to act on it to possibly pursue each and every lead.

 Excerpts from Prime Minister Manmohan Singhs opening remarks at the inaugural session of the Conference of Chief Ministers on Internal Security on 6 January.

*IF THE Prime Minister chose to pointedly focus on the crucial issue of information-sharing between various agencies, it was with a reason. He knew that vital and critical intelligence had simply been ignored. It lay unattended in various files, in the offices of different premier intelligence agencies. He is aware that if all the intelligence that came in two months before the Mumbai terror attack on 26/11 had been put through a sophisticated assessment and analysis, senior officers could well have been able to join the dots and zero in on the fact that terrorists were going to use the sea route to come into Mumbai and attack five-star hotels. Incredibly, sources in the highest quarters in New Delhi have told TEHELKA that the mobile numbers that were used by the Mumbai terrorists were available with the Intelligence Bureau at least five days before 26/11.*

Highly placed sources shared the contents of a Secret note that contains 35 mobile numbers. Of the 35 SIM cards, 32 had been purchased from Kolkata and three from Delhi, by overground workers of the Lashkar-e-Toiba, and sent to Azad Kashmir by mid- November. The precise contents of the Secret note could not have been more direct: The numbers given below have been acquired from Kolkata by overground workers (OGWs) and have been sent through Pakistan trained militants based in Kashmir to ***. These numbers are likely to emerge in other parts of the country. These numbers need to be monitored The note contains more: These numbers need to be monitored and the information taken from these numbers regarding the contents of the conversation, current locations of the call detail records are required for further developing the information. The monitoring is possible at Kolkata.

Highly placed sources reveal that this crucial and stunning piece of information was received by the Intelligence Bureau (IB) on 21 November, at least five full days before Ajmal Amir Kasav, the lone surviving terrorist and his nine accomplices got off the inflatable dinghy at Mumbais Badhwar Park on the evening of 26/11. The Prime Minister and Home Minister are aware that for all the five crucial days that the numbers were available, they were not being monitored. The lapse is all the more critical because at least three of the 32 numbers contained in the Secret note, were the exact same cell numbers that the Mumbai terrorists used to keep in touch with their handlers in Pakistan. It is well possible that the terrorists only activated their mobile numbers after reaching Mumbai but that does not excuse the fact that the numbers were not put under surveillance despite the knowledge that they had been sent to trained militants in ***.

*This was perhaps uttermost in the Prime Ministers mind while he was addressing the conference of chief ministers on internal security. That is perhaps why he emphasised this: All intelligence produced is actionable, though it may not always be specific. It depends on the capability and ingenuity of those who assess the information to further develop and convert the fragmentary pieces of intelligence into a complete whole and for those who have to act on it to possibly pursue each and every lead. He knew that crucial information was available, which if analysed, could have been converted into a complete whole. The agencies had failed in monitoring the vital numbers.*

On 18 September, for example, the Research and Analysis Wing had intercepted a satellite phone conversation which clearly indicated that a hotel at the Gateway of India in Mumbai would be targeted. Crucially, the intercept also revealed that the sea route would be used to launch this operation. Again, on 24 September, RAW recorded another conversation. This time, the hotels were mentioned by name and they included the Taj, the Sea Rock Hotel and the Marriott hotel. If these inputs were being analysed, it would have become clearer that hotels in Mumbai would be attacked and that the sea route would be used.

Security breached The ease with which Mumbai came under attack brought back the question of internal security PhotoReuters

THIS IS not all. Again on 19 November, RAW picked up another piece of conversation in which a voice 

said, We will reach Bombay between nine and 11. RAW tracked the coordinates of the call and frighteningly discovered that it came from the sea near Mumbai. RAW passed on this vital piece of information to the IB who in turn sent it to the Navy but the terrorists, who were first aboard the hijacked trawler MV Kuber and subsequently on the inflatable dinghy, still managed to sail into Badhwar Park, ironically, almost at the promised time: between nine and 11.

They were off only by less than an hour or so, for according to the dossier which the Ministry of External Affairs has handed over to 

The numbers given below have been acquired from Kolkata by overground workers (OGWs) and have been sent through Pakistan trained militants based in Kashmir to ***. These numbers are likely to emerge in other parts of the country. These numbers need to be monitored

35 SIM cards were sent to the LeT and the IB was informed five days ahead.
Three of these numbers were used in Mumbai

DELHI NUMBERS

9 9 1 0 7 1 9 4 2 4
9 9 1 0 7 9 9 9 1 0
9 9 1 0 7 6 4 1 3 6

KOLKATA NUMBERS
9 8 7 4 3 7 9 2 4 6
9 8 7 4 3 7 9 2 5 1
9 0 5 1 4 2 8 3 8 0
9 0 5 1 4 2 8 3 7 8
9 0 5 1 4 2 8 3 7 5
9 0 5 1 4 2 8 3 8 4
9 0 5 1 4 2 8 3 7 9
9 0 5 1 4 2 8 3 8 1
9 0 5 1 4 2 8 3 8 2
9 0 5 1 0 3 2 1 7 4
9 8 7 4 9 7 2 7 6 7
9 8 7 4 9 7 2 7 6 9
9 0 5 1 5 0 9 1 7 8
9 0 5 1 2 9 4 1 7 9
9 8 8 3 4 0 3 4 5 8
9 8 8 3 2 6 8 3 5 8
9 8 0 4 4 7 3 8 2 9
9 8 0 4 4 7 3 8 2 8
9 8 0 4 4 7 3 8 3 1
9 0 0 7 6 2 1 6 7 5
9 0 0 7 6 2 5 7 1 0
9 0 0 7 6 2 1 6 7 6
9 0 0 7 5 6 0 9 9 5
9 0 0 7 7 8 7 1 3 8
9 0 0 7 7 8 7 1 3 7
9 0 0 7 6 2 5 7 1 1
9 0 0 7 7 6 6 3 7 6
9 0 0 7 6 2 1 6 7 1
9 0 0 7 5 6 1 0 1 6
9 0 0 7 5 6 0 4 1 9
9 0 0 7 5 6 0 4 1 7
9 7 4 8 2 9 2 0 8 9

Pakistan, the 10 terrorists arrived at Badhwar Park at 8.30 pm. The dossier says, The ten terrorists performed watch duties on board MV Kuber. Log sheets maintained by them have been seized. The MV Kuber reached a point four nautical miles off Mumbai at 1600 hours on November 26, 2008. As soon as it was dark, the team leader, Ismail Khan, contacted their handler in Pakistan, who directed them to kill Amar Singh Solanki, the captain of MV Kuber. After killing Solanki, the terrorists along with their weapons and IEDs, boarded the inflatable dinghy. They traversed the last four nautical miles to Mumbai in about one hour and 15 minutes, reaching the locality of Badhwar Park (Cuffe Parade) in South Mumbai at about 2030 hours.

If the intelligence was being analysed and not ignored and if the Secret note which the IB received on November 21 had been connected with RAWs intercepts, and the numbers had been put under surveillance, an alert intelligence apparatus may have been able to connect the activation of the Kolkata numbers with the arrival of terrorists in Mumbai. Were the phones activated at 1600 hours or at 2030 hours? The answer to this question was not known, at least, on the day of the attack.

SOURCES REVEAL that the numbers were not being monitored. It is only after Ajmal Kasav and his accomplice Ismail Khan (the 10 had broken up into five pairs) had killed 58 passengers at Chhatrapati Shivaji Stadium, after ATS Chief Hemant Karkare had been shot dead alongwith two other officers; after the remaining four pairs had lodged themselves at their intended targets (Nariman House and the Taj and Oberoi Hotels) that someone in the IB woke up to the fact that it had received a list of phone numbers. Quick calls were then made to Kolkata, the service providers alerted and the blood curdling truth soon hit home  at least three of the 35 numbers that ought to have been monitored, were being used by the terrorists.

It was only after this that the Mumbai Police was alerted and the process of recording the conversations began. The dossier of evidence provided to Pakistan emphasises the fact that the terrorists were using mobile phones to stay in touch with their handlers in Pakistan. It however, does not go into the details of which numbers the terrorists were using or how they were procured. The dossier says, Even while the terrorists had occupied the target buildings and the security forces were engaging them, the terrorists were in contact with their controllers/ handlers over mobile telephones. They also used mobile telephones belonging to hostages/victims. Shortly after the attack on Taj Mahal Hotel, Indian agencies were able to intercept mobile telephone calls made from and to the Hotel. The controllers/ handlers used the virutal number to contact a mobile telephone with one of the terrorists [obviously one of 35 numbers]. This conversation was intercepted and thereafter, all calls made through the virtual number [being used by the handlers] were also intercepted and recorded.

The dossier also contains excerpts from these recordings. The intercepted conversations are listed as per the location of the terrorists and also have a timeline. The timing reveals also therefore that the entire procedure of recording the conversations started, not on 26/11, the day of the attack, but in the early hours of 27/11. For example, one of the intercepts, located at Hotel Taj Mahal was recorded on 27/11 at 0126 hours and it reads:

Caller: Are you setting the fire or not?

Receiver: Not yet. I am getting a mattress ready for burning.

Caller: What did you do to the dead body? [Probably Solanki, the captain of MV Kuber]

Receiver: Left it behind.

Caller: Did you not open the locks for the water below? [Probably of MV Kuber]

Receiver: No, they did not open the locks. We left it like that because of being in a hurry. We made a big mistake.

Caller: What big mistake?

Receiver: When we were getting into the boat, the waves were quite high. Another boat came. Everyone raised an alarm that the Navy had come. Everyone jumped quickly. In this confusion, the satellite phone of Ismail got left behind.

The terrorists were not the only ones who had made a mistake. The intelligence agencies too had made crucial mistakes. It is clear from the above transcript that the handlers were able to call the terrorists in Mumbai because part of their advance planning included sourcing SIM cards from India. Ironically, the numbers were available with the handlers of intelligence, but they were simply not monitored. The casual attitude with which information is gathered but not analysed and acted on is what makes India a soft state. Another reason why, in the same address to the Chief Ministers, the Prime Minister stressed the need for zero tolerance saying it is imperative to effectively galvanising the internal security system to deal with future terrorist attacks. Technology is empowering non-state actors across the globe and it is necessary for us to come up with a comprehensive strategy that combines the best of technological and human capabilities within the country to defeat terrorism in all its manifestations.

Covert operations are key to gathering advance information and keeping pace  if not staying at least one step ahead  with what terrorist groups are planning. In this case, in a superb covert operation, Indian forces had managed to penetrate the ranks of the Lashkar-e- Toiba and plant 35 SIM Indian cards with them. In other words, the SIM cards used by the Mumbai terrorists were like Trojan horses in the LeT ranks. But in a terrible communication and execution bungle the scrupulous follow-up monitoring of the SIMs that should have taken place was not done. And now, ironically, despite the gravity of the Mumbai attack and the Prime Ministers call for information- sharing between various agencies, the agencies are once again engaged in a blame game, with the IB blaming the Jammu and Kashmir Police for having provided the SIM cards in the first place!

*THE TRUTH of the matter is that the J&K police is hardly to blame since it passed on the details of the mobile numbers to the IB. Having been shown up and embarrassingly caught out for not monitoring the numbers, the rivalry has reached tragic proportions. Mukhtar Ahmed, the J&K police constable who travelled from Srinagar to Kolkata to procure the SIM cards (used to infiltrate the LeT), has been arrested and jailed. In a knee-jerk reaction, the agencies have also temporarily deactivated all the mobile numbers instead of putting them under surveillance, a move that could perhaps yield further intelligence!*

The government has launched a massive diplomatic effort against Pakistan through credible evidence that it has succeeded in getting. A similar offensive is needed to ensure that the different intelligence agencies work in tandem and not at cross-purposes. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh emphasised precisely this when he said, The information available from diverse sources, thereafter needs to be properly channelised to reach a common point such as the recently revitalised Multi- Agency Centre (MAC) in Delhi for collation and analysis. It will, hence, be necessary to establish centers locally, at the state and lower levels across the country, to collate all the available information which might have a bearing on a potential terrorist situation.

In fact, if there is one important lesson post 26/11, it is this  that the diverse agencies work on a coordinated manner to process information, for if there is one thing that will help prevent future attacks, it will be advance intelligence.

Tehelka - India's Independent Weekly News Magazine


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## Pk_Thunder

*UK supports prosecution of suspects in Pakistan*​

NEW DELHI:* Rejecting Indias demand for extradition of suspects of the Mumbai attacks, British Foreign Secretary David Miliband has said the UK supports their prosecution in Pakistan as they have broken the law of that country.*


*We will support their prosecution under Pakistani law, because they have broken the law in Pakistan.* Its Pakistani law they have broken as well as international decency and common sense, Mr Miliband told CNN-IBNs Karan Thapar.

There was no extradition treaty between India and Pakistan for handing over suspects, he said.

The British foreign secretary said it had to be ensured that Pakistani judicial system takes its course and those found guilty were punished there.

Responding to a question about disappointment in India that he had not endorsed its stand on extradition, Mr Miliband said he had endorsed Indias anguish that the attacks had come from across the border and that the perpetrators of these terrible crimes be brought to justice.

But I think given that we all have worked so hard for an independent, sovereign judicial system in Pakistan we should let it take its own course, he said.

He, however, said: We have absolutely no doubt about origin of the Mumbai attacks. The origins are in Pakistan.

*He said the Pakistani authorities had detained these people and if there is evidence, they should be prosecuted. I say there is evidence, let them be prosecuted and if they are found guilty let them be punished.
*
He said terrorism has taken life of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto and many other Pakistanis. They (Pakistan) need to do it for their own good.

*When asked to comment on Prime Minister Manmohan Singhs view that official agencies of Pakistan could have been involved in the Mumbai attacks, Mr Miliband said: We dont have evidence to show that attacks were directed by the Pakistani government.
*
When asked about Mr Singhs statement that Pakistan was using terrorism as an instrument of state policy, he said: I have no evidence of Pakistani state directing terrorist activities and I will never make that claim without that evidence. What I know is Pakistan has a very serious terrorism problem.

*He rejected any contention for imposing sanctions on Pakistan by the UK *and said: I dont think punishing Pakistani people with economic sanctions is going to induce a sort of change.

He said the UK would use all appropriate mechanism to make a difference but made it clear that military stick would not help. There is serious need for reform from within Pakistan.

*On the Pakistani proposal for a joint investigation, he said the two countries should cooperate but we are not for any particular version of how to cooperate.*

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## Salahadin

binzaman said:


> *Jo Garajtay hain woh barastay nahi*



well said yara they can say whatever they want.. may be kasab is a pakistani but how did he the only one got captured and how did there top police official died with a (bullet in the back mind you that) when they were to bring Major Phuriot to justice for shamjuta express there are many thing i can go on and on.. But india is more responsible of these attack than pakistan.. if any pakistan non sate actor was also involved which i doubt it.


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## nwmalik

in contrast to the US officials , it was nice to see Mr Miliband express views without local indian infleunce.
Bravo


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Solomon2 said:


> >>Pakistan's position, and that of many Pakistanis, was that India had to share evidence with Pakistan, both on the identity of Kasab and the Mumbai attacks for Pakistan to bring any alleged perpetrators to task.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That attitude is indeed the root of the problem. For Pakistan insisted on retaining this position even after Pakistani law enforcement, including local police, knew much of the truth. Thus anger is rooted in the fact of Pakistan's attitude that it is always the duty of others to present proof, rather than Pakistan's responsibility to keep a clean house itself. While seen as sensible by Pakistanis, it is repulsive to many, including me. For it implies that such activity is approved by Pakistanis as long as Pakistan can get away with it. No wonder Pakistan today is seen as the breeding ground of much of the world's terrorism!
Click to expand...

Respecting the rule of law and due process can only be repulsive to those who don't give a hoot about such things, and as such, the only ones who have something to be ashamed about here are the ones pushing for unconstitutional and illegal action.

Let me remind you that the GoP did indeed confirm Kasab's identity herself. What is left is to try the suspects for perpetrating/assisting the Mumbai attacks, and that cannot be done without extensive cooperation and sharing of evidence by India. All three of the main suspects have been arrested and are being investigated as we speak, under Pakistan's preventative detention laws. The JuD has had their assets seized after the UN determination. What is left is building a case with evidence linking them to Mumbai, and on that count it is India that has been irresponsible, uncooperative and belligerent.


> >>this comes from a defender of the atrocities and occupation of the Israelis and the Indians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are trying to denigrate me and my opinion by associating me with something Pakistanis are supposed to detest. The implication is that my argument is sensible.
Click to expand...

The implication is that you are predisposed to be critical of most things related to the Muslim world, even if your positions support illegal and unconstitutional acts and policies, especially if Israel and India are the other party. You have born that out with your irrational and invalid support of Indian demands as well as your one sided support for, and justification of, Israeli actions in Gaza.

I don't have to 'denigrate' you here, those are your positions. It is surprising that you consider my calling you out on those positions as 'denigrating you' - apparently even you realize how morally reprehensible your positions are then, despite your public stance on the issues.



> Now consider the flip side: why, if what Solomon2 is saying is so sensible, does it come from "a defender of the atrocities and occupation of the Israelis and the Indians"?


You are not saying anything sensible - you have not shown how Pakistan's position of following due process and her laws, in rejecting extradition and the demanding evidence from India linking the suspects to the Mumbai attacks is a 'flawed position'. You have merely presented your opinion that somehow in Solomons eyes Pakistanis have 'lost' and that their position is 'not sensible'.

A mer statement of opinion from you, without showing us how Pakistan's position is 'insensible', is tripe.


> Quit fooling yourselves and take responsibility for your actions or lack thereof. When you do that, Pakistan will gain more than its current fig-leaf of dignity.


Since nothing that occurred in Mumbai was the GoP or her institutions fault, there is nothing to take responsibility for here by Pakistanis or the GoP.

Where our responsibility lies is in punishing the alleged perpetrators, and on that count it is the Indians who have refused to act responsibly and cooperate with Pakistan in sharing evidence, forming joint investigations and 
instead started beating war drums.

I think it is Indians and India that need to apologize for their belligerent and hostile attitude towards Pakistan from day one. It is India that needs to realize that she shoudl back of the unsubstantiated and atmosphere poisoning allegations being made by her leadership, and it is India that needs to humbly accept that Pakistan is a sovereign nation, and that any investigation against Pakistani nationals in Pakistan shall be conducted by Pakistan under Pakistani laws.

India needs to respect Pakistani sovereignty and humbly cooperate and share evidence with Pakistan - that is how India can take responsibility for her actions and try and change the atmosphere she has poisoned.


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## Neo

*&#8216;UK supports prosecution of Mumbai attacks suspects in Pakistan&#8217;:​*
*World should help Pakistan fight terrorism: Miliband​*
** British foreign secretary says Pakistani law was violated, &#8216;they should prosecute suspects&#8217; 
* Attacks not directed by Islamabad​*
LAHORE/NEW DELHI: British Foreign Secretary David Miliband urged the world community on Wednesday to help Pakistan fight the war on terror, according to a private TV channel. 

*Miliband told reporters in New Delhi that Britain wanted the perpetrators of the Mumbai terror attacks brought to justice &#8211; &#8220;the first step that will show Pakistan&#8217;s determination to cooperate with India&#8221;. He said President Asif Ali Zardari also wanted to bring the perpetrators to justice.*

Virtually rejecting India&#8217;s demand that suspects arrested in Pakistan&#8217;s Mumbai attacks probe be extradited, *Miliband separately said in an appearance on an Indian TV programme that Britain supports the suspects&#8217; prosecution in Pakistan &#8211; as &#8220;they have broken the law of that country&#8221;. *

*The British official said there was no extradition treaty between the South Asian rivals* that allowed suspects to be handed over for prosecution in India. He said that it must be ensured that the &#8220;Pakistani judicial system takes its course&#8221; and those found guilty were punished there. 

Origin: However, he also reiterated that *&#8220;we have absolutely no doubt about the origin of the attacks ... the origins are in Pakistan&#8221;. *

*He said the Pakistani authorities had detained suspects, and &#8220;if there is evidence, they should be prosecuted&#8221;. *

Noting that former prime minister Benazir Bhutto and several others had fallen victim to terrorism, he said, &#8220;They (Pakistanis) need to ... [fight terrorism] for their own good.&#8221; 

*About Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh&#8217;s allegation that Pakistan&#8217;s official agencies could have been involved in the Mumbai attacks, Miliband reiterated his statement of Tuesday, &#8220;We don&#8217;t have evidence to show that attacks were directed by the Pakistani government.&#8221; *

Rejection: About Singh&#8217;s statement that Pakistan is using terrorism as &#8216;an instrument of state policy&#8217;, Miliband said,* &#8220;I have no evidence of the Pakistani state directing terrorist activities, and I will never make that claim without that evidence. What I know is Pakistan has a very serious terrorism problem.&#8221; *

*He rejected any contention for imposing sanctions on Pakistan by the UK. *

He said the UK would use all appropriate mechanisms to make a &#8216;difference&#8217;, but made it clear that *&#8216;military stick&#8217; would be of no help.* &#8220;There is serious need for reform from within Pakistan,&#8221; said Miliband. 
daily times monitor/app


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## linkinpark

For the conspirators here



> *I was taken to US for questioning: 26/11 witness*
> 
> PTI | January 15, 2009 | 18:43 IST
> 
> Anita Uddaiya, the woman who saw the six terrorists involved in the November 26 terror attacks arrive in the city, claims she was taken to the United States and questioned by investigating agencies there.
> 
> "I was informed that the (US) officers who questioned me about the Mumbai attacks here earlier would take me to America. They came on Sunday morning and&#65533;took me to America," Uddaiya told PTI.
> 
> "I had lied to the police when I returned home stating that I went to Satara district as the officers told me not to disclose anything about my visit to America," Uddaiya said.
> 
> Uddaiya went missing on Sunday morning and returned to Mumbai on Wednesday at around 1.30 am.
> 
> She had seen the terrorists land in a rubber dinghy on the beach at the colony. But when she asked them where they had come from, she was told to mind her own business.
> 
> Giving details, she said on Saturday at around 10.00 pm, the investigating officers were supposed to come to her home.
> "Since we were informed about Uddaiya's America visit, we sat with her throughout the night waiting for the American investigators. Nobody turned up till morning 5 am. At that time, Uddaiya went to toilet from where she was whisked away by the investigators," said Madhusudhan Nair, president of Mahatma Jyotiba Phule Nagar slum area where Uddaiya resides.
> 
> Uddaiya said four officers were inside the posh vehicle and one of them knew Hindi.
> 
> "First, I was taken to St George Hospital to see my husband Rajendra. I told him that I would return home in a couple of days. From the hospital I was taken to airport," Uddaiya said.
> 
> "I was sitting in the airport while they (officers) were showing documents to the officials at the airport. I had no luggage with me. After sometime, I boarded the flight but I was feeling uncomfortable," Uddaiya recalled.
> 
> Uddaiya, who spent 17-18 hours in her flight to the US, said she was told they were heading to America.
> 
> "I could not eat in the flight properly as they were serving chocolates, sandwiches and some other stuff. I don't know how I managed to eat that food."
> 
> "I was taken to a posh hotel in a car soon after I landed in America. After a couple of hours, we all went to a building where I was asked several questions about the terrorists and Mumbai attacks," she said.
> 
> She said she was asked about the terrorists whom she had seen landing at Mumbai.
> 
> "The questions were translated in Hindi by one of them and whatever answers I had given were also explained to them in English. Everything was over in two to three hours. I even called Hamid Qureshi (a scrap dealer where she works in Mumbai) telling him I am safe," she said, adding that she was taken to the hotel subsequently and then to the airport to board a flight back to Mumbai.
> 
> On returning home in a taxi from Mumbai airport, Uddaiya said she was confused and surprised at what was happening around her. &#65533;She said she was taken to the Cuffe Parade police station for recording her statement.
> 
> After the Mumbai attacks, Uddaiya had also been shown pictures of ten terrorists but she was not taken to J J Hospital to identify the bodies of the terrorists, she said.
> 
> "Since I was unwilling to do so, the Mumbai police did not take me to J J hospital," she said.
> 
> Uddaiya, who deals in scrap, had been living with her husband, daughter and son in the colony of Cuffe Parade in south Mumbai.


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## IceCold

Updated at: 1740 PST, Thursday, January 15, 2009
NEW DELHI: India has given up its insistence that Pakistan hand over all accused involved in the Mumbai carnage.

Indian Foreign Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee in an interview said the government would also accept their fair trial in Pakistan. There should at least be a fair trial of these accused in Pakistan, Mukherjee said.

It should not be a mock trial. It should be transparent and demonstrated. Mukherjees statement, coming a day after British foreign secretary David Miliband in a press conference lauded the Pakistani lawyers movement and termed the countrys judicial system trustworthy.

The accused of Mumbai carnage should be tried in Pakistan, Miliband said.

India okay if Pak tries Mumbai accused fairly - GEO.tv

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## IceCold

Another victory for Pakistan on the diplomatic front. If the attitude would have been the same from day1 what harm would it have brought, but no India wanted to flex its military muscle, but guess what that did not happen and with running out of options, Indian sarkar finally decided to go along the lines.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

A sensible statement - lets hope cooperation is also increased, the tensions die down and we can focus on the real threat from terrorism in Pakistan.

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## IceCold

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> A sensible statement - lets hope cooperation is also increased, the tensions die down and we can focus on the real threat from terrorism in Pakistan.



Let us hope that sanity prevails withing the GOI.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

IceCold said:


> Another victory for Pakistan on the diplomatic front. If the attitude would have been the same from day1 what harm would it have brought, but no India wanted to flex its military muscle, but guess what that did not happen and with running out of options, Indian sarkar finally decided to go along the lines.



Indian elections this year - and the Indian media had played judge, jury and executioner on Pakistan, condemned her, and whipped up public hysteria and anger against Pakistan to the extent that the Congress led GoI had no choice but to follow the lead.

It proved to be completely counterproductive, and has poisoned the atmosphere for a long time to come, though not too long I hope.


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## Flintlock

David Miliband has managed to convince Pranab Dada eh? 

Good, good - lets see how this works out.


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## Omar1984

Chalo Mumbai drama khatam...lets move on with our lives and continue on this fake india-pakistan "friendship".

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Omar1984 said:


> Chalo Mumbai drama khatam...lets move on with our lives and continue on this fake india-pakistan "friendship".



Not quite yet - it remains to be seen whether the GoP has enough evidence to try the suspects, and whether India will offer more 'technical evidence', than what she already has (transcripts of interrogations, phone conversations etc. only at this point). I mean, how does a judge validate that some lines on a piece of paper are actually true?

I imagine we would need recordings of the taped conversations, validate them as not being 'spliced', and voice analysis to match them to the suspects. 

Kasab's own testimony will likely be needed at some point, possibly through a video link in an Indian court?

So there is still much to be resolved.


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## Omar1984

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has arrested 124 people in its crackdown on groups allegedly linked to the Mumbai attacks, a top official said Thursday, adding that the information that India had handed over still needed work before it would be used as evidence in court.

Despite the announcement, the Interior Ministry chief, Rehman Malik, dodged a question on whether Pakistan was conceding that the attack that killed 164 people in November was plotted in Pakistan.

India says that a Pakistan-based militant group, Lashkar-e-Taiba, masterminded the attack. In the days afterward, the UN Security Council declared that Jamaat-ud-Dawa, a charity in Pakistan, was a front for the outlawed militant organization.

In a news conference, Malik said 124 people had been arrested, while the authorities have taken steps against 20 offices, 87 schools, 2 libraries, 7 religious schools and other organizations and Web sites linked to the charity. He also said the authorities had shut several relief camps of the charity, some of which had been alleged to have been militant training grounds.

It was unclear exactly how many people remained in Pakistani custody, however, and Malik at one point indicated many may simply be under surveillance now.

Among those who are being held, including under house arrest, are Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, the head of the charity who helped establish the militant group, which was banned in 2002. Also in custody are Zaki ur-Rehman Lakhvi and Zarrar Shah, two men India accuses of planning the Mumbai attacks.

Malik said Pakistan was trying to act responsibly and went after the charity and those linked to it because of the UN declaration. He repeated Pakistani calls for a joint investigation into the attacks, pledging that would "bring quick results." He urged India to hand over more information to assist Pakistan's inquiry.

He said India had handed over some information, but "we have to inquire into this information to try to transform it to evidence, evidence which can stand the test of any court in the world and of course our own court of law."

As other officials have from the start, he appeared to rule out handing over suspects to India, saying that Pakistani laws allowed for the prosecution of citizens who committed crimes elsewhere.

"We have to prove to the world that India and Pakistan stand together against terrorists because they are the common enemies," Malik said.

Arrests in Mumbai attacks number 124, Pakistan reports - International Herald Tribune

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## ajpirzada

Indian visitor criticises Indian media for Mumbai references

* Says locals hospitality shows their love for neighbours

By Abdul Manan

LAHORE: *The Indian media should stop referring to the Mumbai attacks and the consideration of war, and should instead promote some sort of peace process, Jathedar (party leader) Yudhisterlal Ji Maharaj said on Thursd*ay.

A delegation of Hindu pilgrims reached Pakistan on January 8, and attended Shada Rams 300th birth anniversary at Shadami Darbar in Hayat Pitafi village in Sindh. Maharaj was the 9th Gaddisar of Shadami Darbar and was the son of late Gobind Ram, who was elevated to Shadami Gaddi on April 4, 1960. On April 22, 2003, the saint Swami Gobind Ram Maharaj passed away and Yudhisterlal was chosen the Gaddisar.

*Yudishterlal said he had not found any preparation of war in Pakistan. He said his delegation had visited two provinces of the country, and found people living in peace. He demanded that the Indian government should control the countrys media.*

*Hospitality: He said he was shocked to see the warm reception given at Wahgah Border by the Pakistani people.* He said the Sindh local administration and the Evacuee Trust Property Board (ETPB) officials served his delegation very well. *He said the members of his delegation appreciated the countrys hospitality, saying he received countless invitations to gatherings in Lahore. He said it showed the love of the Pakistani people for their neighbouring country*. He said local caretakers and ETPB officials were looking after all functions of Shadami Darbar. He said Hindus in Sindh were faced with only one problem  kidnapping of their youths. He demanded that the Sindh government should take steps to stop the kidnapping of Hindu youth.

When asked whether Pakistan should hand over the people accused of being linked to the terrorism in India, he said the two countries did not have a bilateral contract in this regard. However, he said if international rules and agencies allowed the country to do so, Pakistan should hand them over immediately.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## roopesh

oops! I heard pakistan offered him citizenship!


----------



## ajpirzada

roopesh said:


> oops! I heard pakistan offered him citizenship!



loool.. so u have decided not to appreciate anything.


----------



## roopesh

ajpirzada said:


> loool.. so u have decided not to appreciate anything.



He heard that Shakeel Siddiqui got harrased in india. Ofcouse he came up with this logic inside pakistan to protect him. He might become media figure and some money over there!


----------



## Captain03

Geo TV Pakistan - Breaking News, World, Business, Sports, Entertainment, & Video News
NEW DELHI: British foreign secretary David Miliband Thursday said there is no evidence indicating involvement of ISI in the Mumbaid attacks.

In an interview given to an Indian TV, David Miliband said President Zardari wants to bring reforms in his country, therefore, the world community should come forward and support the democratic government in Pakistan.

He said Pakistan is ready to initiate a legal action against the accused of Mumbai attacks and the world should believe in what Pakistan says.

Pakistan government should be extended help towards strengthening its institutions.

He said punishing Pakistani people will not help things improve instead it will be counter-productive. Terrorism is a threat not only for India but also for Pakistan itself.


----------



## Xeric

Somebody was saying that the entire world is with india on its stance against Pakistan...


----------



## ejaz007

*Woman witness claims she was questioned in US *
Friday, January 16, 2009


NEW DELHI: Anita Uddaiya, who had seen six terrorists involved in the Nov 26 terror attacks arriving in Mumbai, said she was taken to the US by investigating agencies for questioning.

I was informed that the (US) officers, who had questioned me about the Mumbai attacks here earlier, would take me to America. They came on Sunday morning and took me to America in a flight, she said in an interview to the PTI in Mumbai.

Anita Uddaiya, who was also an eyewitness to the Mumbai terror attack, disappeared on Sunday morning and nobody knew about her whereabouts. I had lied to the police when I returned home stating that I went to Satara district as the officers told me not to disclose anything about my visit to America, she said.

She said on Saturday at around 10 pm, the investigating officers were supposed to come to her home.

Since we were informed about Uddiayas America visit, we sat with her throughout the night waiting for the American investigators. Nobody turned up till 5 am. At that time, Uddaiya went to toilet from where she was whisked away by the investigators, said Madhusudhan Nair, president of Mahatma Jyotiba Phule Nagar slum area, where Uddaiya resides.

Uddaiya said four officers were inside the posh vehicle and one of them knew Hindi. First, I was taken to St George Hospital to see my husband Rajendra. I told him that I would return home in a couple of days, Uddaiya said.

From the hospital I was taken to airport, Uddaiya said, adding, I was sitting at the airport while they (officers) were showing all the documents to officials at the airport. I had no luggage with me. After some time, I boarded the flight but I was feeling uncomfortable, Uddaiya recalled.

Uddaiya, who spent 17-18 hours in her flight to the US, said she could not eat in the flight properly as they were serving chocolates, sandwiches and some other stuff. I dont know how I managed to eat that food. I was taken to a posh hotel in a car soon after I landed in America. After a couple of hours, we all went to a building where I was asked several questions about the terrorists and the Mumbai attacks, she said.

She said she was asked about the terrorists whom she had seen landing at Mumbai. The questions were translated in Hindi by one of them and whatever answers I had given were also explained to them in English. Everything was over in two to three hours. I even called Hamid Qureshi (a scrap dealer where she works in Mumbai), telling him that I am safe, she said, adding she was taken to the hotel subsequently and then to the airport to board a flight back to Mumbai.

On returning home in a taxi from the Mumbai airport, Uddaiya said she was confused and surprised at what was happening around her. I told the police that I had been to Satara as investigators (American officers) told me not to reveal anything about the American visit, she said.

Uddaiya said on return from the US, she was taken to Cuffe Parade police station for recording her statement. After the Mumbai attacks, Uddaiya had also been shown pictures of 10 terrorists but she was not taken to the JJ Hospital to identify the bodies of the terrorists, she said. Since I was unwilling to do so, the Mumbai police did not take me to JJ hospital, she said. Uddaiya, who deals in scrap, has been living with her husband, daughter and son in the colony of Cuffe Parade in south Mumbai. 

Woman witness claims she was questioned in US


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## ejaz007

In seems from the report that US has more freedom to operate in India than in Pakistan. They came, took her to USA for questioning and then returned without Indians knowing. In Pakistan they atleast can't do that.


----------



## binzaman

Salahadin said:


> well said yara they can say whatever they want.. may be kasab is a pakistani but how did he the only one got captured and how did there top police official died with a (bullet in the back mind you that) when they were to bring Major Phuriot to justice for shamjuta express there are many thing i can go on and on.. But india is more responsible of these attack than pakistan.. if any pakistan non sate actor was also involved which i doubt it.



Also they traveled (if they really) 600 nautical miles from karachi to mumbai and World's third largest NAVY (with all the latest radars, ships and boats along with the confirmed intelligence report) were unable to stop them............what a joke. but i think indians should be ashamed of blaming Pakistan, they should blame their security forces and intelligence for not taking any action.


----------



## rahgup

binzaman said:


> Also they traveled (if they really) 600 nautical miles from karachi to mumbai and World's third largest NAVY (with all the latest radars, ships and boats along with the confirmed intelligence report) were unable to stop them............what a joke. but i think indians should be ashamed of blaming Pakistan, they should blame their security forces and intelligence for not taking any action.



The fact that we couldn't prevent it doesn't mean that the attact should have taken place in the first place. 
You cannot go around killing innocent people and then say that it is their fault, they should have defended themselves.


----------



## Omar1984

Mumbai terror attacks witness goes missing 


Wednesday, January 14, 2009

News Desk

MUMBAI: The investigations into the Mumbai terror attacks have suffered a setback after a key eyewitness became untraceable. The Mumbai Police said on Tuesday that Anita Uddaiya, the woman who had identified the bodies of nine killed Mumbai terrorists, had been missing since January 11. The police have swung into action and are searching for Anita, whose daughter Seema Ketan Joshi has filed a complaint. The Crimes Branch of the city police, which is the investigating agency in the attacks, has also launched a probe into the incident.


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## Omar1984

26//11 witness says she was taken to US for probe 

Press Trust of India

Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:42 PM (Mumbai) 
Anita Uddaiya, the woman who saw the six terrorists involved in the November 26 terror attacks arrive in the city, claims she was taken to the US and questioned by investigating agencies there. 

"I was informed that the (US) officers who questioned me about the Mumbai attacks here earlier would take me to America. They came on Sunday morning and had taken me to America in a flight," Uddaiya said. 

"I had lied to the police when I returned home stating that I went to Satara district as the officers told me not to disclose anything about my visit to America," Uddaiya said. Uddaiya went missing on Sunday morning and returned to Mumbai on Wednesday at around 1.30 AM to her home. 

She had seen the terrorists land in a rubber dinghy on the beach at the colony. But when she asked them where they had come from, she was told to mind her own business. Giving details, she said on Saturday at around 10.00 PM, the investigating officers were supposed to come to her home. 

"Since we were informed about Uddiaya's America visit, we sat with her throughout the night waiting for the American investigators. Nobody turned up till morning 5 AM. At that time, Uddaiya went to toilet from where she was whisked away by the investigators," said Madhusudhan Nair, president of Mahatma Jyotiba Phule Nagar slum area where Uddaiya resides. 

Uddaiya said four officers were inside the posh vehicle and one of them knew Hindi. "First, I was taken to St George Hospital to see my husband Rajendra. I told him that I would return home in a couple of days," Uddaiya said. 

"From the hospital I was taken to airport", Uddaiya said adding "I was sitting in the airport while they (officers) were showing all the documents to the officials at the airport. I had no luggage with me. After sometime, I boarded the flight but I was feeling uncomfortable," Uddaiya recalled. 

Uddaiya, who spent 17-18 hours in her flight to the US, said she was told "we were heading to America. I could not eat in the flight properly as they were serving chocolates, sandwiches and some other stuff. I don't know how I managed to eat that food." 

"I was taken to a posh hotel in a car soon after I landed in America. After a couple of hours, we all went to a building where I was asked several questions about the terrorists and Mumbai attacks," she said. She said she was asked about the terrorists whom she had seen landing at Mumbai. 

"The questions were translated in Hindi by one of them and whatever answers I had given were also explained to them in English. Everything was over in two to three hours." 

"I even called Hamid Qureshi (a scrap dealer where she works in Mumbai) telling him that I am safe," she said adding she was taken to the hotel subsequently and then to the airport to board a flight back to Mumbai. 

On returning home in a taxi from Mumbai airport, she said she was confused and surprised at what was happening around her. "I told the police that I had been to Satara as investigators (American officers) told me not to reveal anything about the American visit," she said. 

On her return, Uddaiya said she was taken to Cuffe Parade police station for recording her statement. 

After the Mumbai attacks, Uddaiya had also been shown pictures of ten terrorists but she was not taken to J J Hospital to identify the bodies of the terrorists, she said. "Since I was unwilling to do so, the Mumbai police did not take me to J J hospital," she said. 

Uddaiya, who deals in scrap, had been living with her husband, daughter and son in the colony of Cuffe Parade in south Mumbai. 

NDTV.com: 26//11 witness says she was taken to US for probe


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## Smooth Operator

*26/11-eye witness returns home: Police *


Mumbai, Wednesday 14 Jan 2009: Anita Uddaiya, a witness to the landing of terrorists involved in the Mumbai terror attacks, who was missing since the last three days, returns to her home in the metropolis, says police.

Police yesterday had Uddaiya has been missing since January 11.

Anita, 47, had seen the terrorists get off from their boat and land in Mumbai on November 26. She had identified the terrorists&#8217; bodies at the city&#8217;s JJ Hospital.

The police have swung into action after Anita&#8217;s daughter Seema Ketan Joshi filed a complaint after her mother went missing from her house in the Cuffe Parade&#8217;s Fisherman&#8217;s Colony.

Anita was on a boat near her house at Badhwar Park in Cuffe Parade when she saw 10 men leaving an airboat.

She is however, not a key witness in the trial of arrested terrorist Mohammed Ajmal Amir Kasab.

_keralaonline.com_


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## jamesy

binzaman said:


> Plz plz tell us atleast a day before the next drama (like happend in mumbai) taking place in india....



DRAMA?!!
have you seen how many ppl were killed? how many were maimed?
it seems a drama to you?

this report merely points out that the indian agencies were not completely efficient, that doesnt make them perpetrators.
are you not able to differentiate between a murderer and a cop who didnt do his duty properly?


@ahmeddsid
bro, you are feeding a troll.......


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## spsk

Yes In Pakistan they cannot kidnap any body,But kill hundreds with drone attacks!!! That was funny...


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## binzaman

rahgup said:


> You cannot go around killing innocent people and then say that it is their fault, they should have defended themselves.


WHERE did you seen written that ---it was the fault of victims? 
For those victims we feel grief and sorrow too.......Also there were 39 Muslims killed in these attacks. How can we say that?????

@Jamesy


The whole story is about the negligency of Indian Intelligence Agencies, and Security Forces. 
*
So the Point is How many responsible from Intelligence Agencies, Cost Guard and Navy are arrested?? * So instead of finding them you all started howling against Pakistan. Clean your home first.....


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## Xeric

My indian friends have successfully polluted and corrupted the thread.Well done!
You people are lamer then i thought.


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## ajpirzada

we wouldnt have been seein all this if RAW would have been more careful and done something before hand to stop this from happenin. if they were to busy in balochistan and FATA, they should have atleast informed our agencies to stop this from happenin.


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## Bull

binzaman said:


> WHERE did you seen written that ---it was the fault of victims?
> For those victims we feel grief and sorrow too.......Also there were 39 Muslims killed in these attacks. How can we say that?????
> 
> @Jamesy
> 
> 
> The whole story is about the negligency of Indian Intelligence Agencies, and Security Forces.
> *
> So the Point is How many responsible from Intelligence Agencies, Cost Guard and Navy are arrested?? * So instead of finding them you all started howling against Pakistan. Clean your home first.....



Of course yes Muslims, died and that probaly is the only thing that matters to you.

In which world have you heard that any defence / intelligence official is arrested for not failing to act on tips.

And mind you they did, but it was a decoy alarm by Let, as IN and Coast guard searched and called it off months before they even started sailing from Karachi. IN and Coast Guard considered the inteligence tip as a fasle alarm but it wasnt suppose to be.

The third largest navy wasnt prepared to scan and monitor the zillions of fishing boats that leaves Indian ports for fishing and hence these guys got through.

Please read through the newspaper you will find these written all over them including Paksitani ones. And yes the fact that Kasab is a pakistani doesnt mean others are not. Others are dead and hence Kasab is highlighted. 

There are civilian TV and photo recording of how Kasab was killed in the Gurgaon chowpathy, just search.


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## Bull

Neo said:


> These are valid questions yet to be answered by Indian intelligence.



What do you mean by that Neo?

Cant 10 people sneak into India, hell they can. No big deal, there are so many Indian returning from the gulf in trawlers/Uru without any documents. The only difference here is that these guys carried guns and grenades. This terror strike was waiting to happen. Our border surveliance is poor at the best.

170 dead and 3 days to clear, what do you think, it could have been done more easily. We started actiing only after they killed 56 in CST and many more in cafe leopod,Taj and Oberoi.

And for this prime witness, you need to wait and see what happened. I have info that this lady has been arrested for misleading the investigators, as she never saw anybody coming.


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## ajpirzada

roopesh said:


> He heard that Shakeel Siddiqui got harrased in india. Ofcouse he came up with this logic inside pakistan to protect him. He might become media figure and some money over there!



im impressed


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## afriend

ajpirzada said:


> im impressed



Lol thats funny mate..!!!


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## Bane Blade

you both can run a show probably it would be very successfull wonder what the name would be.


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## binzaman

Bull said:


> In which world have you heard that any defence / intelligence official is arrested for not failing to act on tips.



I think you are not alien to this world. Just google it and you will get many stories. so I hope you will consider india as a country of this world. 



Bull said:


> Of course yes Muslims, died and that probaly is the only thing that matters to you.



For me and other moderate Muslims, Killing of a single innocent human being, is like the killing of whole humanity. And thats the teachings of Islam




Bull said:


> The third largest navy wasnt prepared to scan and monitor the zillions of fishing boats that leaves Indian ports for fishing and hence these guys got through.



So the fault lies at your end. Thats what i am trying to say in this whole thread.


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## ajpirzada

Bane Blade said:


> you both can run a show probably it would be very successfull wonder what the name would be.



thanks for the advice. will this about it at some point in time. but definately not now. i dont wanna be another shakeel


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## linkinpark

New Delhi: *India on Friday asserted that perpetrators of terrorism in this country must be handed over to face "Indian justice" and clarified that there is "no dilution" of that stand.*

*External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee also asked Pakistan to undertake a "full investigation" into the Mumbai attacks in a "sincere", "transparent" and "verifiable" manner to unveil the "full conspiracy" into the terror strikes.*

"There is no question of dilution of our demand of extradition (of those responsible for terror acts in India)," Mukherjee told reporters while clarifying to media reports quoting him in a TV interview.

"We have never given up the demand that perpetrators of the terror acts should be handed over to India. There is no question of giving up that demand. We have not climbed down from that demand," he said.

"The fact that dastardly terror crimes have been committed in India, therefore the perpetrators must face Indian justice. This is not an either or situation as these things are not mutually exclusive," Mukherjee added.

The Minister issued the "clarification" on a TV interview in which he had said that India will have no objection if those behind terror acts here are put to "fair trial" in Pakistan itself, a remark which amounted to softening of New Delhi's position on the issue of extradition.[/QUOTE]


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## spsk

This is my personal opinion , Whatever India did so far was just for fore coming elections.Congress government cannot do anything against Pakistan or terrorists and basically its wrong to blame some other country for lack of our security.

India will keep talking for next 3 months...Nothing to take this seriously.


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## Black Stone

Why has India gone soft?, they were quite persistent before.


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## ahmeddsid

Indian Media is run by a bunch of morons! I wish more freelance newsmen come in and save the Industry!


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## spsk

India has been an aggressor in past (100s of years back), when we were rich.But now we are left with nothing.May be I am right oriented,but to an extent it matters how much money you have.

Also to add one more point, we need our neighboring countries should be stable if we want our people to be in peace.


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## orion

While the indian investigators sit at the front door of the witness' house,the FBI sneak in and wisk her away from the...ahem..toilet! Leaving them aptly said 'clueless'.Now thats viligence on the part of the indian authorities...seems nothing's changed post 26/11.Not that I mind.

Trust the indians to keep the D in the drama rolling!


----------



## highlander

ejaz007 said:


> In seems from the report that US has more freedom to operate in India than in Pakistan. They came, took her to USA for questioning and then returned without Indians knowing. In Pakistan they atleast can't do that.



have you thought for a moment that it might have happened with the knowledge of Indian intelligence agencies. India is not exactly Pakistan where the writ of the state is absent from large parts of its territory.


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## must7

Obviously .. she is taking a paid leave on behalf of Indian agencies !


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## roopesh

The Associated Press: Pakistan: 10 days for Mumbai attack investigation

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP)  Investigators have 10 days to complete their inquiries into the Mumbai terror attacks, Pakistan's top Interior Ministry official said Saturday.

Rehman Malik told reporters that investigators were looking at information handed over by India and leads gathered independently. Provincial and central government-level investigations were ongoing, he said.



Comments: Suddenly Rahman Malik is projected as Hero by Indian media. Most of the TV channels said that Pakistan got up from deep sleep and now looking into indian proof. But most channels doubted that pakistan govt can take action. Many said its a good movement from Zardari...

Seems Zardari gaining huge popularity in India


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## XYON

Yeah! we'll take 10 days to investigate but give India a full report in 3!


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## rajk20002002

Pak concedes India has got proof against Pak nationals


Pak concedes India has got proof against Pak nationals-Pakistan-World-The Times of India

better late than never...

RK


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## Pk_Thunder

*India slams Milibands Kashmir-Mumbai linkage*​

Saturday, 17 Jan, 2009 | 04:39 PM PST |
NEW DELHI: British Foreign Secretary David Miliband's trip to India, billed as a solidarity visit following the Mumbai siege, was dubbed a disaster by Indian officials and politicians Saturday, AFP reports.
*Miliband raised Indian hackles by linking the unresolved Kashmir dispute to the Mumbai attacks and because of what government sources called his aggressive style during his three-day visit which ended Friday.
There is no linkage between Kashmir and the terror India has been facing emanating from Pakistan...* The bureaucracy in the British foreign office should have educated him a little bit on the facts, Congress party spokesman Manish Tiwari told reporters in New Delhi.
Arun Jaitley, spokesman for the opposition *Bharatiya Janata Party, described Miliband's visit as a disaster.
In recent years, there has been no bigger disaster than the visit of David Miliband. At the end of his visit, we were having nothing but some... pro-Pakistan comments, Jaitley said.*
The former British colony has traditionally resisted any kind of outside interference in its dispute with Pakistan over Kashmir, trigger of two of the three wars between the two nuclear-armed rivals.
Miliband's views on Kashmir and the Mumbai attacks were spelt out in a piece that appeared in the London Guardian newspaper on Thursday while he was in India.
*Resolution of the dispute over Kashmir would help deny extremists in the region one of their main calls to arms and allow Pakistani authorities to focus more effectively on tackling the threat on their western borders,* he wrote.
A report in the Hindu newspaper quoted *a senior foreign ministry official as dismissing Miliband, who is 43, as a young man.
I guess this is the way he thinks diplomacy is conducted,* the unidentified official said.
The Hindu quoted another Indian official as saying the* two government meetings with Miliband were pretty awful.*
Even when Miliband was in India, the government made its displeasure known. *We do not need unsolicited advice on internal issues in India like Kashmir, said foreign office spokesman Vishnu Prakash.*
Another Indian official called the foreign ministry criticism of Miliband unprecedented, saying it was the first time New Delhi had ticked off a government minister from a UN Security Council member country while the visit was ongoing.
*Miliband's aggressive style, the tone and manner in which he conducted himself during talks with the prime minister (Manmohan Singh) and the foreign minister (Pranab Mukherjee) were also upsetting, a government source told AFP on Saturday.*


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## ajpirzada

i guess britain have come out of the BUSH TRAP which they were in. they have backed out from WOT and are also not involving themself in any compaign against Pakistan. britain is demanding wat is rit from pakistan. carry out investigation and find out who were involved.

when he came to pak my mom thought as if this was some sort of band which came to perform in some concert. but now after listenin to him she has become a fan of his talk. btw his words were nothing less than a song for pakistanis.


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## ajpirzada

rajk20002002 said:


> Pak concedes India has got proof against Pak nationals
> 
> 
> Pak concedes India has got proof against Pak nationals-Pakistan-World-The Times of India
> 
> *better late than never...*
> 
> RK



u call this late but ill call it just. pak couldnt have done anything untill info provided by mumbai was studied. still its too early to say anything. things will become clearer when pak concludes her investigation


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## cncool

http: // i43.tinypic. com/n2zed1. jpg (remove spaces)

*The entire Indians propaganda and lies have been exposed in this attached pdf document. Read and know for yourself things you never knew before. The entire Mumbai drama, its background, its motives and the players involved, with proof from their own sources, media and speeches. Circulate this far and wide and get it published wherever you can. This must be flooded on the web and passed to all contacts. Let the world see how big liars they are.*

http: // rapidshare. com/files/185053790/BrassTacks_014_Dance_of_the_devil .pdf (remove spaces)

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Communist

Yes I already read that.... It is a very good effort of Zaid Hamid... 
I appreciate the effort....


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## ajpirzada

*Mumbai attacks leads go out of Pakistan: Malik*

* Interior adviser says initial probe report will arrive in 10 days
* Verifiable info will be converted into proof for criminal case

By Tahir Niaz

ISLAMABAD: Leads found in Pakistani investigation into the Mumbai terrorist attacks indicate involvement of foreigners, Interior Adviser Rehman Malik said on Saturday.

So far the leads shared with me by the investigators go out of the country, he said at a press conference at the Ministry of Interior. Malik said a committee was also analysing the information India had shared with Pakistan to transform it into verifiable evidence for legal action.

We are not registering a criminal case right now. Let the preliminary report come and if prima facie something substantial comes, we would convert it into a criminal case, the adviser said.

The preliminary report would be presented within 10 days, Malik said. But he denied the deadline had been set under foreign pressure, adding that the probe would be legal and tangible. He denied British Foreign Secretary David Miliband had asked Pakistan to increase the pace of the investigation.

We will follow the international procedures and Pakistani laws to investigate the Mumbai attacks in the light of information provided by India, but no dictations will be taken from any side, he said. 

The suspects detained under the Maintenance of Public Order law would be released if found innocent, the adviser added. Malik called for interaction between Indian and Pakistani investigators and asked the Indian friends to show patience. 

It took 42 days for India to provide information to Pakistan, and it will take some time [for Pakistan] to investigate the matter. They should give more time to us, he said.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## ajpirzada

i wonder where can they go?


----------



## mchoudhu

I found this video on youtube. One of my favourite shows on ajj tv. 






enjoy.


----------



## Neo

Being discussed here.


----------



## Beskar

A MUST watch!

*Part 1*





*
Part 2*





*
Part 3*






*Part 4*





*
Part 5*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Beskar

*Part 6*






*Part 7*






*Part 8
*





*Part 9*

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## Silverfalcon

*I watched this whole program live on TV. Its a must watch.

I would strongly recommend it to every Indian and Pakistani, other members can also watch it as this program is in English.

Indian members ( take 5 deep breaths before watching it ), and do watch the whole thing. Zaid Hamid is trying to talk some sense into you.*

*p.s - Download this PDF file and go through it while watching the program, its the same file Zaid Hamid is going through in this program.*

_The link will be provided below._

Thankyou Bezerk for posting this.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Silverfalcon

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-india-crisis/19856-download-pdf-document-comprehensive-refutation-indian-dossier-against-pak.html


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## Flintlock

So is the Pakistani government in the control of Hindu Zionists?


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## Kasrkin

Um, nope. I think he means that the Pakistani government is too incompetent or selfish to realize what must be done for the country _and_ is therefore suiting Hindu extremist agendas.


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## Flintlock

They're incompetent or selfish? Which one is it? 

If they're so incompetent that they cannot spot this obvious (to Hamid) conspiracy, then god help Pakistan.

If they're so "selfish" that they are simply agreeing to Indian charges because it suits them, the, well, god help Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Beskar

Flintlock said:


> They're incompetent or selfish? Which one is it?
> 
> If they're so incompetent that they cannot spot this obvious (to Hamid) conspiracy, then god help Pakistan.
> 
> If they're so "selfish" that they are simply agreeing to Indian charges because it suits them, the, well, god help Pakistan.



The video explains the current and future threats to India and how they'll effect their people, Including the GOI.

As far as our Government is concerned, they're fully aware of the steps they've taken and would face the Consequences sooner or later. Was there a reason to support the Indian claims for a Greater cause that's in our interest in future? Questions need to be answered but they'll reveal themselves gradually.


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## Kasrkin

*They're incompetent or selfish? Which one is it? *

Its a probably both actually. You see they are too incompetent to have known/understood/handled it properly and they're too selfish to even _try_ since their motivations are directed else where ($$$$).


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## Beskar

Remaining Parts. 
*
Part 10*





*
Final Part*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## AjnabiZ

Thank you very much.

Now the rest of the world can know the truth behind Mumbai drama which was enacted by Hindu Terrorists.


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## Beskar

AjnabiZ said:


> Thank you very much.
> 
> Now the rest of the world can know the truth behind Mumbai drama which was enacted by Hindu Terrorists.



Hats off to the ENTIRE brasstacks team!


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## SherdiL!

thanks bezerk !


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## Beskar

SherdiL! said:


> thanks bezerk !



You're all very welcome =) Spread it around! People need to hear this.


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## Black Stone

*India: Pak to pay high price over Mumbai raids*

India's foreign minister has said the countries failing to clamp down on terrorism in the wake of last year Mumbai raids would pay a heavy price. 

"Countries found wanting in their commitment to zero tolerance of terrorism will be made to pay a heavy price by the international community," Pranab Mukherjee told a conference in New Delhi on Monday, Reuters reported. 

"Our diplomatic efforts in dealing with terrorist states will continue unabated," Mukherjee said in an apparent reference to Pakistan. 

The remarks are the latest among the tit-for-tat accusations between the two neighbors in the aftermath of the terror attacks in the Indian commercial hub of Mumbai on November last year. 

Indian authorities are frustrated at what they see as Islamabad slow response in arresting the suspected attackers. 

On January 5, India provided Pakistan with data from satellite phones used by the attackers as well as what it describes as the 'confession of a surviving gunman'. 

India is to hand over a second dossier of evidence on the Mumbai raids to Pakistan, including a DNA sample of a sole surviving gunman, according to Indian media reports. 

Tension has been running high between the nuclear-armed neighbors since the November 26-29 attacks which killed 179 people. 

Islamabad has been angered by the Indian suggestion that Pakistani state agencies were involved and what it sees as repeated Indian hints of military action. 

Islamabad condemned the Mumbai attacks from the outset and denied involvement of any of its agencies. 

Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik set a 10-day deadline at the weekend for an investigating team to complete a report. 

Pakistan has detained scores of members of the Lashkar-e-Taiba and an affiliated charity, the Jamaat-ul-Dawa allegedly involved in the November 26-29 Mumbai siege.


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## Black Stone

Well, well, well, what have we here?. What does he mean by "Pay High Price"?


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## ahmeddsid

Black Stone said:


> Well, well, well, what have we here?. What does he mean by "Pay High Price"?


Unleashin terrorism in pakistan??? now we can get all sort of conspiracy theories running!


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## PureLogic

This is not going in good direction. I doubt Pakistan is in safe hands.

If, in any case, Pakistan is attacked, nothing but chaos will be there. This is ideal situation for Talibanis and extremists to take charge. This means all the resources will be available for them and it will certainly add in the headache for India. I think this is the reason India is not daring to attack Pakistan.

War or no war, Pakistan must act now. War is bad for both the nations. If Pakistan pays the price, India is also going to suffer.


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## Beskar

PureLogic said:


> This is not going in good direction. I doubt Pakistan is in safe hands.
> 
> If, in any case, *Pakistan is attacked, nothing but chaos* will be there. This is ideal situation for Talibanis and extremists to take charge. This means all the resources will be available for them and it will certainly add in the headache for India. I think this is the reason India is not daring to attack Pakistan.
> 
> War or no war, Pakistan must act now. War is bad for both the nations. If Pakistan pays the price, India is also going to suffer.



Pakistan's been in chaos for the past 3 years now. We know how to handle our problems. India should focus on HER problems and stop blaming everything on Pakistan.

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## duhastmish

choas will be everywhere, if it goes to that extent of war , they will not die alone for sure . and one more thing in today's times its almost impossible to win a war . winning a battle is alright but not war even today war in iraq is going on with such big infrastructure of us of a and small coutnry like iraq.


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## Beskar

duhastmish said:


> choas will be everywhere, if it goes to that extent of war , they will not die alone for sure . and one more thing in today's times its almost impossible to win a war . winning a battle is alright but not war even today war in iraq is going on with such big infrastructure of us of a and small coutnry like iraq.



Agreed to some extent. Afghanistan is a Major example of today's warfare. Superpower, along with Nato, have been stuck there for eight years now. If anything's happened, it's in the favour of the Talibs. Less than 25&#37; of the country is in the Invaders hands. 

Pakistan and India SHOULD avoid war, but the only problem is that India uses pakistan's problems as a scapegoat to threat our sovereignty which isn't acceptable at all cost. The recent tensions between the two nations have proven that we won't let our guard down. India should stop giving priority to emotions rather than rationality.

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## duhastmish

India have to agree that Pakistan is a sovereign country and providing too much war pressure will not produce anything productive here, as Pakistan have a big population and their politician cant bow down to Indians just as Indians cant bow down to Pakistan. a diplomatic channel and deep understanding is required between both the country to come to a rightful conclusion. and head forward.

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## Beskar

duhastmish said:


> India have to agree that Pakistan is a sovereign country and providing too much war pressure will not produce anything productive here, as Pakistan have a big population and their politician cant bow down to Indians just as Indians cant bow down to Pakistan. a diplomatic channel and deep understanding is required between both the country to come to a rightful conclusion. and head forward.



Right on!  Both have to act rationally, Not emotionally. If we started acting emotionally, we would've chocked the Nato/US supply line a long time back. Along with shooting down the drones like mere fire flies. It's not that we can't, it's our rationality and understanding of the whole conflict and the consequences it would bring to our nation that stops us from carrying out those actions.

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## Jihad

How can a "responsible" Indian minister call Pakistan a terrorist state?
This the 10th time or so that he said something "unfortunate" again.
What a complete retard, he is seriously not helping the situation one bit.


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## Beskar

DAWN.COM | World | Mumbai terrorists had help from inside India: US report

WASHINGTON: The terrorists who attacked Mumbai on Nov. 26 also received help from inside India, warned a leading US think-tank which also noted that those who planned the attack also wanted to influence the Pakistani government.
&#8216;The focus on Pakistan should not obscure the fact that the terrorists likely had help from inside India,&#8217; warned the RAND Corporation, which conducted the study.
&#8216;Local radicalisation is a major goal of the terrorists, and will be a major political and social challenge for India.&#8217;
The report also warned the Mumbai attacks would have serious consequences for Pakistan.
But &#8216;the repercussions for Pakistan will depend largely on what India and the international community do,&#8217; it noted.
&#8216;Thus far, Indian and American officials recognise that Pakistan's civilian government does not control the policies that its military and intelligence agency hold toward militant groups operating in and from Pakistan.&#8217;
The RAND Corporation, which often conducts research studies for the US government, blamed Lashkar-i-Taiba for the Mumbai attacks but said it&#8217;s not clear if official Pakistani agencies were also involved.

&#8216;We do not know for certain whether LeT carried out this operation without the knowledge or approval of Pakistan's army or intelligence services, or whether the attack was instigated or encouraged by sectors of the Pakistani military or intelligence service to change the course of Pakistan's own government,&#8217; the report said.
Former US ambassador to India Robert Blackwill, now a senior fellow at RAND, was also associated with the study. Mr Blackwill is a strong supporter of India and is known for his critical views on Pakistan.
The study claimed that LeT has emerged as an &#8216;independent constellation in the global jihad galaxy&#8217; after the Mumbai terror attacks.
The 22-page report focuses on the operational and tactical capabilities displayed by the 10 terrorists in the Mumbai attacks, evaluates the response of the Indian security forces and lists the implications of the attack for India, Pakistan and the international community.
&#8216;The attack put into actual practice LeT's previous rhetoric about making the Kashmir dispute part of the international jihad. In so doing, LeT has emerged, not as a subsidiary of al-Qaeda, but as an independent constellation in the global jihad galaxy...The Mumbai attack makes LeT a global contender on its own,&#8217; the report said.
The study warned that the Mumbai terrorist attacks suggested the possibility of an escalating terrorist campaign in South Asia and the rise of a strategic terrorist culture.
&#8216;India will continue to face a serious jihadist threat from Pakistan-based terrorist groups, and neither Indian nor US policy is likely to reduce that threat in the near future,&#8217; said Angel Rabasa, lead author of the report.
&#8216;Other extremist groups in Pakistan likely will find inspiration in the Mumbai attacks, and we can expect more attacks with high body counts and symbolic targets.&#8217;
Brian Michael Jenkins, a leading terrorism expert and senior advisor at RAND, noted that the attackers targeted specific groups of people and facilities with political, cultural and emotional value.
The study also noted that the attack exposed numerous weaknesses in India's counter-terrorism and threat mitigation structure. &#8216;Indian intelligence officials had received prior warnings from their own staff, as well as US sources, that a major attack was probable, but did not take any specific action,&#8217; it pointed out.
The report analysed key weaknesses in the country's general counter-terrorism and threat-mitigation structure, including gaps in coastal surveillance, inadequate &#8216;target hardening,&#8217; incomplete execution of response protocols, response timing problems, inadequate counter-terrorism training and equipment for the local police, limitations of municipal fire and emergency services, flawed hostage-rescue plans, and poor strategic communications and information management.
Repercussions for Pakistan

&#8216;India is likely to hold the state of Pakistan responsible for the attacks and may look for a way to punish Pakistan to deter future attacks. Both countries have nuclear weapons, making any military action a dangerous course, but if India does not respond, that would signal a lack of Indian resolve or capability,&#8217; the report said.
According to the RAND researchers, the best outcome would be for Pakistan's civilian government to slowly and incrementally exert civilian control over its military and intelligence agencies. But this will be difficult as many in those agencies view the Taliban and other extremists as their natural allies, and the United States and India as threats to Pakistan's security.


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## ANDUBYLL

To a neutral member, Shri Mukherjee behaviour at times is highly irresponsible , almost like a Donald Rumsfeld/Dick Cheney type character. By contrast, the Pakistanis from Zardari downwards have been extremly civil and diplomatic.
Cmon , Pranab, a bit more civility won't hurt

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## Energon

Bezerk said:


> Pakistan's been in chaos for the past 3 years now. We know how to handle our problems. India should focus on HER problems and stop blaming everything on Pakistan.



You're attempting to conflate two independent matters. It is common knowledge there are hardly any states around the world that are devoid of serious internal problems, and as a general rule the magnitude and severity of such problems tends to be far greater in the under developed world.

The issue here however is that Pakistan's virulent internal problems are manifesting in India; and this is unacceptable.


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## Beskar

Energon said:


> You're attempting to conflate two independent matters. It is common knowledge there are hardly any states around the world that are devoid of serious internal problems, and as a general rule the magnitude and severity of such problems tends to be far greater in the under developed world.
> 
> The issue here however is that Pakistan's virulent internal problems are manifesting in India; and this is unacceptable.



Did you even read the post I replied to?

And on the Internal problems Issue, Please name the countries who're going through a full-scale Military war in one of it's own region right now. You can't possible compare the rest of the world's Internal problems to our situation.


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## blain2

Energon said:


> The issue here however is that Pakistan's virulent internal problems are manifesting in India; and this is unacceptable.



Welcome to the side-effects of the GWOT! For people and countries to remain immune to this lash back is an unrealistic expectation in my opinion.


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## Flintlock

blain2 said:


> Welcome to the side-effects of the GWOT! For people and countries to remain immune to this lash back is an unrealistic expectation in my opinion.



That's not true at all. The Lashkar and other militant groups linked to Kashmir have nothing to do with the GWOT. They are creations and extensions of the Pakistani state (perhaps were till recently, I cannot say). 

The GWOT is being fought on the Afghan border - these guys are different - they are (or were?) part of Pakistan's foreign policy.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Flintlock said:


> The Lashkar and other militant groups linked to Kashmir have nothing to do with the GWOT.



Oh that's right - they are a result of India's occupation of kashmir and her refusal to hold a free and fair referendum as mandated by the UNSC resolutions and agreed to by her.

LeT stated the other day that they are willing to forgo violence and accept peace provided India respects her commitments to the UN, the international community and the Kashmiris.


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## notorious_eagle

This little midget is really making a fool out of himself, empty threats are not going to do anything. Even the leadership of Pakistan have started to ignore his threats because they dont have any weight in it. If India would act like a responsablie nation and engage Pakistan in the right way, they would actually get results. Call me old fashioned but i was told "If you want help, ask someone nicely". With all these empty threats and constant war mongering, Indians have just shot themselves in the foot.


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## Flintlock

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Oh that's right - they are a result of India's occupation of kashmir and her refusal to hold a free and fair referendum as mandated by the UNSC resolutions and agreed to by her.
> 
> LeT stated the other day that they are willing to forgo violence and accept peace provided India respects her commitments to the UN, the international community and the Kashmiris.



What I mean is, that they are not a result of the "backlash" because of the GWOT.
They are of course a part of the GWOT - they should be - since they are terror groups. 

And your reasoning is bollocks - without support from the Pakistani state in the first place, there would be on Lashkar - so its got nothing to do with Kashmir. Kashmir is simply being used as tool by the Pakistanis to brainwash their jehadis.

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## Beskar

Flintlock said:


> What I mean is, that they are not a result of the "backlash" because of the GWOT.
> They are of course a part of the GWOT - they should be - *since they are terror groups. *
> 
> And your reasoning is bollocks - w*ithout support from the Pakistani state in the first place, there would be on Lashkar* - so its got nothing to do with Kashmir. *Kashmir is simply being used as tool by the Pakistanis to brainwash their jehadis*.



By that definition, IRA was also labelled as a "Terrorist" organization but without them, there never would've been an Independent Irish state. Every region throughout history has gained independence by the use of force at one point or another. When kashmiri's picked up arms, they were labelled terrorists. When they dropped them, they're STILL labelled terrorists. Exactly why peaceful protesters are being shot in Kashmir. What EXACTLY should they do?

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## Black Stone

notorious_eagle said:


> This little midget is really making a fool out of himself, empty threats are not going to do anything. Even the leadership of Pakistan have started to ignore his threats because they dont have any weight in it. If India would act like a responsablie nation and engage Pakistan in the right way, they would actually get results. Call me old fashioned but i was told "If you want help, ask someone nicely". With all these empty threats and constant war mongering, Indians have just shot themselves in the foot.



I can understand your feeling, when threats are used very often it gets boring now and then. This would only get interesting when threats are backed with actions.

I believe we will see more of these type of behaviors.


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## Flintlock

Bezerk said:


> By that definition, IRA was also labelled as a "Terrorist" organization but without them, there never would've been an Independent Irish state. Every region throughout history has gained independence by the use of force at one point or another. When kashmiri's picked up arms, they were labelled terrorists. When they dropped them, they're STILL labelled terrorists. Exactly why peaceful protesters are being shot in Kashmir. What EXACTLY should they do?



Let them do what they want, but don't use that excuse to finance and run Jehadi camps.


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## Energon

As Flintlock rightly points out, the groups in question were established by the state with the sole intention of exporting terrorism to India so that open war with an impending unfavorable outcome could be avoided along with blame for commencing subversive acts of war and murder. This dastardly policy may have worked well for a while, but has obviously ended up backfiring. There have certainly been public overtures by the current Pakistani establishment in regards to the state divorcing itself from this policy of yesteryear; how genuine their intention and subsequent efforts will be remains to be seen. 

Based on recent opinions voiced by some in the Pakistani intelligentsia it is also evident that there is a growing awareness internally in regards to the noxious side effects of nurturing and exporting terrorism for so called national gain; this of course backed by healthy doses of 'explosive' reality checks on an almost day to day basis within virtually every corner of Pakistan. I truly hope that this movement generates ample momentum so that there is a decisive move away from militancy and radicalism.

The point however remains that nobody *outside* Pakistan should have to pay for the mistakes effected by the breakdown of governmental policies and parts of the social fabric within it. And frankly, it should have never come to this in the first place.

I have very little doubt that in light of the above mentioned situation there will be no further reprieves in such matters, at least in the foreseeable future; and the concept of preemptive strikes (something that should make most people extremely uncomfortable) will now be adopted as the silent mantra against Pakistan.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Flintlock said:


> What I mean is, that they are not a result of the "backlash" because of the GWOT.
> They are of course a part of the GWOT - they should be - since they are terror groups.
> 
> And your reasoning is bollocks - without support from the Pakistani state in the first place, there would be on Lashkar - so its got nothing to do with Kashmir. Kashmir is simply being used as tool by the Pakistanis to brainwash their jehadis.





Energon said:


> As Flintlock rightly points out, the groups in question were established by the state with the sole intention of exporting terrorism to India so that open war with an impending unfavorable outcome could be avoided along with blame for commencing subversive acts of war and murder. This dastardly policy may have worked well for a while, but has obviously ended up backfiring. There have certainly been public overtures by the current Pakistani establishment in regards to the state divorcing itself from this policy of yesteryear; how genuine their intention and subsequent efforts will be remains to be seen.
> 
> Based on recent opinions voiced by some in the Pakistani intelligentsia it is also evident that there is a growing awareness internally in regards to the noxious side effects of nurturing and exporting terrorism for so called national gain; this of course backed by healthy doses of 'explosive' reality checks on an almost day to day basis within virtually every corner of Pakistan. I truly hope that this movement generates ample momentum so that there is a decisive move away from militancy and radicalism.
> 
> The point however remains that nobody *outside* Pakistan should have to pay for the mistakes effected by the breakdown of governmental policies and parts of the social fabric within it. And frankly, it should have never come to this in the first place.
> 
> I have very little doubt that in light of the above mentioned situation there will be no further reprieves in such matters, at least in the foreseeable future; and the concept of preemptive strikes (something that should make most people extremely uncomfortable) will now be adopted as the silent mantra against Pakistan.



Contrary to the dissembling and rewriting of history going on - the groups were established solely due to India unilaterally violating the peaceful resolution of the Kashmir dispute through the principles of plebiscite/referendum under both the instrument of partition and UNSC resolutions (agreed to by both sides) in favor of continued illegal Indian occupation and usurpation of Kashmiri land.

India is not paying the price for flawed policies by PaKistan, she is paying the price for her own illegal occupation and violation of international commitments in Kashmir, and therefore only has herself to blame for this and other acts by LeT or Kashmiri Freedom Fighting groups.

The fact remains that India needs to start acting like a responsible state and fulfill her obligations to the international community, Pakistan and the Kashmiris.

One can only hope that Indians will slowly learn to not justify immorality, illegality and occupation of a people under the guise of 'nationalism'.


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## PureLogic

Bezerk said:


> *Pakistan's been in chaos for the past 3 years now. We know how to handle our problems.* India should focus on HER problems and stop blaming everything on Pakistan.



Two mutually opposite statements in a row....

I am clueless. What you actually want to say?? If you know how to solve your problems, then how come Pakistan is in chaos for 3 years?


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## mchoudhu

Talat did a very good program discussing in detail the evidence that was provided by india about the mumbai terror attacks. 

Live with Talat - 16 January 2009 | Pakistan Politics

Please watch it.


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## Flintlock

mchoudhu said:


> I found this video on youtube. One of my favourite shows on ajj tv.
> 
> WVXS0hq0b84[/media] - 4 Man Show 3rd Jan 2009
> 
> enjoy.



He's reading from a piece of paper? How pathetic is that !


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## Chanakyaa

*judge it for ur self do they look foriegn.
they look indians 1000&#37;.*



> 1. Strange that none of the media (TV or Print) have picked this up at all. Or have they been deliberately ignoring it?
> 
> Have a look at the above picture of one of the terrorists. [Another angle]
> 
> Notice the orange thread / band on his right hand.
> 
> Tying a red thread or cord around the wrist is a Hindu practice and it is unlikely a Muslim, especially one politicized enough to carry out an attack such as this, would observe it. I think this provides more evidence that this was a false flag operation or at least an attack by a non-Muslim group. For more information about the significance of the red thread see wikipedia and this blog post. [Thanks to Uruk]
> 
> Additionally, the terrorists inside the Nariman House Building were reported to have stocked up on supplies on Wednesday evening, buying not just food items but liquor, among other things, from a local store [Source]. Again, it is highly unlikely that a Muslim, let alone a &#8216;Mujahid&#8217;, and especially one politicized enough to carry out such an attack, would consume liquor in normal life, let alone hours before his inevitable &#8216;martyrdom&#8217;.
> 
> Don&#8217;t let them ignore it. Circulate this to as many people as you can as we strongly believe it wouldn&#8217;t have been ignored if the terrorists were carrying a copy of the Qur&#8217;an, or a taveez.




I am sure That the GoV of pakistan has more sensible people.
Your Govt has Admitted that Kasab is a Pakistani.. Still This Argument ?

More over suppose an Indian who looks 99.99% like a pakistani or bangladeshi , makes a lookup of the traditional wear of ur country and does something wrong , is it even 1% sensible to judge the nationality of a person by clothes ?

Come to India , you see Germans , Americans dressed as Indians.. This doesnt mean what u stressed on.. 



> 2. Indians are claiming that one of the attackers was captured and says he is from Faridkot, near Multan:
> Mumbai police capture terrorist alive and claim he is from Pakistan | Mail Online
> 
> Can anyone confirm if there is a Faridkot in Pakistan?
> 
> The only Faridkot I can find is in Indian Punjab:
> Faridkot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



*Ask This to Mr. Nawaz Shareef who Claimed it to be True on TV Live !*




> 3.Clearly Jalalabad is in Afghanistan, its all part of a global conspiricy against Pakistan



Even if its a Conspiracy , I dont Think pakistan is a fool to accept it. They accepted it coz its True.



> 4. Ahmed Quraishi.com



??



> 5. The raakhi wearing &#8220;Muhammad Ajmal Muhammad Amin Ajmal Muhammad Muhammad Kasave Ajmal Kazab Kazim Muhammad Azim Qasime Muhammad Qasam. The names change hourly depending on how well they suite with terrorist names or organisations.



Your source of the Claim ??



> 6. An article by guardian: Ravinder Kaur: To call the Mumbai attacks India's 9/11 makes a false analogy with Bush's war on terror | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
> 
> 7. aangirfan: Mumbai Attackers were 'Hindus' and 'White Men'



Then Your Govt is a Group of Mindless people to admit them as Pakistani.. Come on How many times will u repeat this Fiction ?

AND finally



> &#8216;Terror in Mumbay&#8217; & Malegaon &#8216;Hindu Terror&#8217;, Any Connections??, Who &#8216;hired&#8217; them?
> 
> 1. The country was in a mood of getting real colour of terror most recentently happened, &#8216;hindu folks&#8217; involvements were slowly uncovered!
> 
> 2. The brave hero, ATS Chief Hemanth Karkare was intelligently uncovering the masks of real &#8216;terrorists&#8217; who played recent terrors in India. He was given a threat to his life just before two days of this &#8216;terror in Mumbay&#8217;!
> 
> 3. The 1st target of &#8216;Mubai terrorists&#8217; was ATS leaders - three of &#8216;most wanted&#8217; by Malegaon criminals immediately shot dead in early hours of said &#8216;Mumbai Terror&#8217;, including Hemanth Karkare!
> 
> 4. It is true that &#8216;Mumbai Terrorists&#8217; entered thru sea! but did they crossed international boarders or just took off from Gujarat or neasrby seas within Indian territtory?



Firstly , all the statements include a "Indian" hand ..
So All your Points are Thrashed by a single statement of Mine that When Pak GoV has admitted Kasab to be Pakistani then it menas the terrosrists were from pak ( I dont say its common people , i know that even they hate terrorism ) .

Secondly , I agree that radical Hindu elemets exist and thay are to be blamed for their activites , but They are NOt Capable of Such a strike , Infact Even ULFA or similar organistations cant Do It.



> 5. It is well known that &#8216;Mumbai Terrorists&#8217; had very good and excellenge knowledge about their targets, the most important one was the ATS leaders! They are well familiar with Taj and other o their targets!



I have friends who know more than an average Pakistani about pakistan.. ( Reading hobby and Google earth Surfers ) , Does that imply they are pakistani ?



> 6. The 1st 38 hours of &#8216;Mumbai Terror&#8217; operation, there were no much clues were obtained nor media not much covered to link with Pakistan !



The Terrorists Didnt make a TV show to Claim their identity !
We Dont make Conclusions before investigating it.



> 7. Unlike Leshkare Tayyeb&#8217;s jehadists with bears and turbans, this youngsters are clean shaved without having beared! are they really Jehadis? One of the terrorists media showed was wearing a yellow band on his right hand (a sanghi sign, as seen in Gujarat riot scenes - even RSS female cadres wears it)!



Childish , are Hollywood Movies banned in PAK ?

You make this statement in 21st Century ?

*Does Every man in Pak have a Beard ?*




> 8. The situation changes immedately after biggest &#8216;Terrorist&#8217; Gujarat hero Modi&#8217;s visits in Mumbai! Sonia, Prime Minister and LK Advani also visited Mumbai before Modi however nobody declared someone, why?
> 
> Why Modi visited Mumbai unlike other CMs of other states?



Whats Wrong in It ?



> He immeditely declares the hands of Pakistan in &#8216;Mumbai Terror&#8217; - how he knows it?



Source ?



> He immedately declares of financial aids of 1 crore to every military man killed, to Maharastra govt, all people killed?? Why? wht is the connection of Gujarat and &#8216;Mumbai Terror&#8217;&#8230;



In case of Crisis Even India Gave Blankets to Pak and Pak did the same in Gujrat Earth Quake .. Any Coonection ?
Its called "Human Response" if u understand it.
And if u understand it more .. Its Publicity Stunt as well..



> What is the reason of his &#8216;over smartness&#8217; of taking the media?



What do u mean ??



> Why &#8216;Terrorist Hero Mr. Modi declares aid to people before Manmohan or Maharastra CM declares? and much bigger amounts than them?? was it from his pocket or from public money?



He Has Enough Money . He is from a State with 11% GDP rate.
and whats wrong to Give Money ?
Is it Crime in PAK to help ?



> This should be well investigated, he may know who hired the terrorists in Mumbai who killed the ATS leaders and challegning the nation!



Karkare Got their Himself and Terrorists Didnt came to Kill Him.
Pal, if there was even a slight hand of BJP or VHP u think Congress will let it away ?

They Lost..
The Home Minister
The CM
The Deputy CM
NSA Resigned
Nas it hasnet Stopped.



> 9. And this &#8216;terror&#8217; takes place just day before assembly elections in some states!



In None of the States terrorism was NOT an issue. It was development.



> Now you guess, has it any &#8216;real&#8217; connections with &#8216; Malegaon &#8216; hindu terrorism??
> 
> See the image of the Gunman and decide for yourself who was the man. The man is wearing a color band on his right hand which Sangeis (Red thread) usually wear.



Indians and Pakistani are sensible People they Judge the facts.
You are an exception to see and Judge ?

*Do they Give Death Sentense all the "Gun" holders in Pak Movies ?*


*LOL @ INDIA nice Story for Bollywood not for Reality base lollll*[/QUOTE]

Indians Make Realistic Movies that win Golden Globes NOT one But 4 !
We Know HOW to do it..


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## Beskar

Jalalabad, Pakistan? Someone must've been High from all the "Natural" drinks available while creating that report.


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## civfanatic

Hopr you guys love it



YouTube - MUMBAI - NOT A MOSSAD CIA JOB


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## Energon

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Contrary to the dissembling and rewriting of history going on - the groups were established solely due to India unilaterally violating the peaceful resolution of the Kashmir dispute through the principles of plebiscite/referendum under both the instrument of partition and UNSC resolutions (agreed to by both sides) in favor of continued illegal Indian occupation and usurpation of Kashmiri land.
> 
> India is not paying the price for flawed policies by PaKistan, she is paying the price for her own illegal occupation and violation of international commitments in Kashmir, and therefore only has herself to blame for this and other acts by LeT or Kashmiri Freedom Fighting groups.
> 
> The fact remains that India needs to start acting like a responsible state and fulfill her obligations to the international community, Pakistan and the Kashmiris.
> 
> One can only hope that Indians will slowly learn to not justify immorality, illegality and occupation of a people under the guise of 'nationalism'.


 To quote Flintlock for the sake of cogency... your reasoning is bollocks.

You're deluding yourself if you think these organizations were set up to be public interest groups running after school specials for Indian Kashmiri interests (which have nothing to do with Pakistan). That countless international episodes of mass terrorism lead right back to them is proof enough.

Pakistan is and has been for a while now an epicenter of Islamist/Islamic terrorism. There is no denying that other parties have been involved in Pakistan gaining this status (particularly the USA). However most of the advances in this field have been at the behest of the Pakistani leadership itself. Using terrorism as a weapon against India via proxies like LeT and JeM has also been a long standing national policy after running out of conventional military options. Blaming everyone else at this point through a set pattern of pathetic arguments is a complete waste of time, not to mention an insult to basic intelligence, as are attempts to justify Pakistani acts of terrorism.

It is also unlikely that India or any other country for that matter can and/or will take cues from terrorism emanating from Pakistan when it comes to resolution of their internal matters. It is by far the most responsible thing a state can do.


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## Neo

*India likely to face more Mumbai-style attacks​*
** RAND Corporation releases report titled The Lessons of Mumbai, says attacks likely to inspire more terrorists
* Says attacks targetted people and facilities with emotional, political value​*
LAHORE: *The Mumbai attacks suggest the possibility of an escalating terrorist campaign in South Asia, and India can expect more attacks with high body counts and symbolic targets, a study by the RAND Corporation  a leading US think-tank  has predicted.*

*The RAND study, part-funded by the Pentagon, identifies the tactical features of the military-style Mumbai attacks  planning for which may have begun way back in 2007  also highlights weaknesses in Indias counter-terrorism structure and weighs in on the implications of the attacks for India, Pakistan and the US.*

*India will continue to face a serious jihadist threat from Pakistan-based terrorist groups, and neither Indian nor US policy is likely to reduce that threat in the near future,* said Angel Rabasa  lead author of the study and a political scientist with RAND.

Inspiration: Other extremist groups in Pakistan likely will find inspiration in the Mumbai attacks, and we can expect more attacks with high body counts and symbolic targets.

*According to researchers, the selection of multiple targets  Americans, Britons and Jews, as well as Indians  suggests that the terrorists intended the attack to serve multiple objectives that extended beyond their previous linear focus on Kashmir.*

Target: "The goal was not only to slaughter as many people as they could, but to *target specific groups of people and facilities with political, cultural and emotional value. This indicates a level of strategic thought * a strategic culture  that poses a difficult challenge: not whether we can outgun the terrorists, but can we outthink them? said Brian Michael Jenkins, a senior adviser at RAND.

Former US ambassador to India Robert Blackwill; Ashley Tellis, a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace; and five other South Asia experts have contributed to the study.

India holds the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LT) responsible for the attacks and is looking for a way to punish Pakistan to deter future attacks.

The report acknowledges that both countries have nuclear weapons, making any military action a dangerous course, but warns if India does not respond, that would signal a lack of Indian resolve or capability.

*Without an appropriate response, Pakistan, or at least those elements of its military and intelligence leadership that are supportive of the activities of groups like the LT, are likely to conclude that these operations, in some measure, yield benefits that exceed the cost, said RAND while releasing the study titled The Lessons of Mumbai.*

For these and other reasons, US researchers say, India is likely to remain a target of Pakistan-based and indigenous Islamist terrorism.

*The US think-tank also says the focus on Pakistan should not obscure the fact that the terrorists likely had help from inside India. Local radicalisation is a major goal of the terrorists, and will be a major political and social challenge for India," it warned.*


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## Black Stone

*India: Pakistan must be disciplined*

India's foreign minister calls on the international community to discipline Islamabad over its alleged 'terrorism sponsorship' activities. 

In an apparent reference to Pakistan, Pranab Mukherjee said Wednesday that the problem of terrorism becomes complex when "recalcitrant" states do not recognize their international commitments. 

"It clearly spells out that if a state apparatus sponsors terrorism as an act of state policy, or a recalcitrant state refuses to recognize its international commitments and responsibilities on not allowing the use of (its) territory for terror activities, the problem becomes more complex and difficult," Mukherjee said in New Delhi. 

Tension has been running high between the nuclear-armed neighbors since the attacks on the Indian port city of Mumbai on November 26-29 which killed 179 people. 

Comparing the magnitude of the Mumbai siege to the September 11 terror attacks in the US, the foreign minister emphasized terrorism today is not just an act of misguided individuals or a small group. 

"Therefore it is high time for the international community to recognize that such recalcitrant states must be brought to discipline by resorting to various international mechanisms," he added. 

The remarks are the latest among the tit-for-tat accusations between the two neighbors in the aftermath of last year's terror attacks on Mumbai. 

New Delhi, London, and Washington hold a Pakistan-based militant group called Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) responsible for attacks. 

Indian authorities are frustrated at what they see as Islamabad's slow response in arresting and prosecuting those allegedly involved in the case. 

Islamabad has been angered by the Indian claims that Pakistani state agencies were engaged in the incident as well as India's repeated hints at a military option. 

Pakistan has condemned the Mumbai attacks from the outset and has vehemently denied involvement of any of its agencies in the attacks. 

Pakistan has so far detained scores of LeT members and members of an affiliated charity, the Jamaat-ul-Dawa (JuD), allegedly involved in the Mumbai siege. The country's Interior Ministry Chief Rehman Malik set a 10-day deadline at the weekend for an investigating team to complete a report.


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## PureLogic

This is certainly not going in good direction. This will only add mess in the matter. One more such attack and GoI will be forced by the citizens' anger to show some 'war-action'. And if this happens, all we get is nothing but chaos.


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## EagleEyes

If there is a retaliatory response because of another such incident Pakistan should remain calm, and let the Indian control their hormones, but be ready and prepeared to shoot some birds down.


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## PureLogic

WebMaster said:


> If there is a retaliatory response because of another such incident Pakistan should remain calm, and let the Indian control their hormones, but be ready and prepeared to shoot some birds down.



That will really be the best response from Pakistani side.


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## Smooth Operator

hi, I am veggie eating bhangee


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## Smooth Operator

*Pakistan extends crackdown on Mumbai suspects*

_Pakistan however needs to do more_

16/01/2009

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - Pakistan insisted it would help India to bring those behind the Mumbai terrorist attacks to justice, saying Thursday it had shut down extremist Web sites and suspected militant training camps, and detained 71 people in a deepening probe.

Still, a top Pakistani official said authorities needed to further investigate information about the attacks provided by archrival India before it could be used to prosecute suspects in court.

Islamabad is under pressure to clamp down on Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Pakistan-based militant group that India blames for killing 164 people in its commercial capital in the siege and raising tension between South Asia's nuclear-armed neighbors.

Days after the November attacks, the U.N. Security Council declared that Jamaat-ud-Dawa, a charity in Pakistan, was merely a front for the outlawed militant organization.

On Thursday, Pakistan's Interior Ministry said 71 leaders of the groups had been arrested since then and that another 124 had been placed under surveillance and must register their every move with police.

"The restrictions are so tough. It's virtual detention," Interior Secretary Kamal Shah said.

Rehman Malik, the ministry's top official, said authorities also had closed 20 offices, 94 schools, two libraries and six Web sites linked to the charity. He said authorities had shut more than a dozen relief camps of the charity, some of which are alleged to be militant training grounds.

Among those detained was Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, the head of Jamaat-ud-Dawa, along with Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi and Zarrar Shah, who India says planned the Mumbai attacks. Malik repeated Islamabad's call for a joint investigation into the attacks and urged India to hand over more information to assist Pakistan's own probe.

"We are fully committed to help India in this investigation," he said at a news conference. "We have to prove to the world that India and Pakistan stand together against the terrorists because they are the common enemies."

On Jan. 5, India handed Pakistan a dossier of evidence including information on interrogations, weapons and data gleaned from satellite phones used by the attackers.

India said the material proved Pakistan-based militants plotted and executed the attacks and has repeatedly insinuated that Pakistani intelligence agents were involved.

Pakistan denies that, though it has accepted that the one Mumbai gunman captured alive is a Pakistani and appears ready to accept that elements from within its borders were involved.

Pakistan has used Lashkar-e-Taiba in the past as a proxy force against India in their struggle over the divided Kashmir region. Washington says it has developed ties to al-Qaida and the West wants Pakistan to demonstrate that it has turned decisively against Islamic militancy.

British Foreign Secretary David Miliband said in Mumbai on Thursday that Pakistan, a front-line ally also against the al-Qaida and the Taliban, must show "zero tolerance" for all terror networks on its soil. Miliband plans to visit Pakistan in the coming days.

Malik said Pakistani detectives would "inquire into" the information provided by India "to try to transform it to evidence, evidence which can stand the test of any court in the world and of course our own court of law." He appeared to rule out handing over suspects to India, saying Pakistani laws allowed for the prosecution of citizens who committed crimes elsewhere.

India indicated has that it could accept a prosecution in Pakistan if Islamabad refused to hand over suspects. "If that is not possible, there should at least be a fair trial of these fugitives in Pakistan," Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee told Indian news channel Aaj Tak on Wednesday.

The United States expressed satisfaction at how the South Asian neighbors, who have fought three wars in the and had redeployed troops along their militarized border in recent weeks, were managing the fallout from the Mumbai bloodshed and urged more cooperation.

"We would like to see more the exchange of information about the Mumbai attacks so that you can get to the bottom of exactly who was responsible, see the entire plot, and hold all responsible for their actions, and make sure that in doing so you prevent any further plots from getting to the point of execution," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said.

In Washington, meanwhile, Pakistani Ambassador Husain Haqqani called on India to cooperate with Pakistan in what would be a joint investigation into the Mumbai attacks.

Working together, he said, would strengthen the war on terrorism and might provide access by Indian investigators to suspects held by Pakistan.

"The war against terrorism is our war, too," Haqqani said at the Nixon Center, a Washington think tank. The audience included retired U.S. diplomats, academics and journalists.

"There are homegrown extremists on both sides of the border," the veteran ambassador said. Cooperating in the Mumbai inquiry might lay the groundwork of restoring improved relations between Pakistan and India. They are now heading downward, a goal of the attackers, Haqqani said.

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## Smooth Operator

*Was Pakistan Complicit in the Mumbai Attacks?*

After the terrorist attacks on Mumbai on November 26, 2008, tensions between India and Pakistan were ratcheted up almost instantly. While the involvement of the terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which is based at least partially in Pakistan, was established relatively early on, the involvement of the Pakistani government, its intelligence services, or agents associated with them has been a more controversial and enduring source of tension. The Pakistani government denies these allegations.

The Indian government recently released a dossier of evidence gathered about the Mumbai attacks, presumably in an effort to put pressure on the international community and on Pakistan to go after the perpetrators. The following is an analysis of this dossier. For the sake of analysis, I take the evidence at face value; it is possible that some information has been omitted, exaggerated, or otherwise altered to serve the motives behind its release. Furthermore, my analysis may be erroneous, even if the dossier is not.

That being said, let's dive in.

*The Terrorists*

There were ten involved in the attack, nine of whom were killed. The tenth was captured, and presumably is the source of a fair bit of the information presented in the dossier. All ten were Pakistani; 9 hailed from the Punjab province, while the other was from the North-West Frontier Province. For what it's worth, the British considered certain tribes from Punjab to be more "martial" than those residing elsewhere in the portion of British India that became Pakistan. Many of the Pakistani Army's recruits were historically and are today residents of this province. The proportion of Punjabis in the army is higher than their proportion of the population as a whole (two thirds of the army vs. half of the general populace). However, there is no evidence that military personnel were actually involved.

*Their Training*

The terrorists were taught "a basic knowledge of firearms, ammunition, grenades and explosives" including how to "handle and fire Kalashnikov rifles and 9mm pistols and also how to fabricate explosive devices. They were also imparted training in techniques to counter interrogation and tolerate pain. Besides, they were indoctrinated to become suicide attackers." It seems unlikely that providing this training would be beyond the capabilities of a group which has been active for at least 25 years.

*Their Equipment*

The terrorists seemed to have a standardized set of equipment - an AK-series automatic rifle, a pistol, several spare ammo clips, several grenades, and a GPS unit and/or a cell/satellite phone. Some terrorists also carried IEDs. All of this equipment is readily available either on the black market (the guns/ammunition/grenades/IEDs) or from retailers in Pakistan (phones/GPS). The latter devices were made by well-known and widely available producers (Magellan for the GPS; Nokia and Thuraya for the phones; all three brands have retail outlets in Pakistan).

*Logistics and Support*

Here the evidence is more mixed. The terrorists hijacked a fishing boat which transported them from an offshore location fairly close to the India-Pakistan border (if not further; this is the first checkpoint on the recovered GPS devices) to a point a mile or so off the coast of Mumbai. The terrorists also made a number of calls to locations in Pakistan, via a routing device with links to Austria. The costs associated with the latter were covered by a Western Union payment made in Italy. The only suspicious element of the call transcripts included in the dossier were references to a director of the attack who was referred to as "Major General." However, this could well be an artificial rank created by a terrorist organization, rather than concrete evidence of military involvement. One oddity is that the recovered GPS units were pre-programmed with a return route, which is inconsistent with the dossier's claim that the terrorists were indoctrinated as a suicide unit.

*The dossier's narrative concludes with the following:*


*The evidence gathered so far unmistakably points to the territory of Pakistan as a source of the terrorist attacks in Mumbai... It is also abundantly clear that senior functionaries of the LeT were the controllers/handlers of the ten terrorists. The evidence unmistakably establishes that the ten terrorists were chosen, trained, despatched [sic], controlled and guided by the LeT which is the organisation responsible for the terrorist attacks in Mumbai.*

*Conclusion*

The evidence contained in the dossier seems to strongly support the claim made at the end of the narrative. However, other claims made in the aftermath of its release are not supported by the information made publicly available. Several elements of the attack - the transfer of the terrorists from the fishing vessel to the city itself and the synchronization of the attack on the Taj Mahal, which included two pairs of terrorists, one of which was assigned to attack a different target beforehand - appear to require a fair amount of skill. However, the Taliban is one group that operates in the region with experience in coordinating attacks involving several hundred assailants, albeit with more localized targets. LeT is linked to the Taliban by, among others, the United Nations Security Council, whose Al-Qaida and Taliban Sanctions Committee was responsible for sanctioning LeT and its senior leaders. It is not unlikely that these related groups would actively share information about planning, training, and tactics. Unless the classified documentation provides evidence of a direct link between the Pakistani government or intelligence services and this attack specifically, it would seem premature to conclude that the Pakistanis have played more than an enabling role by accepting the presence of this group in their territory. That being said, they are fully responsible for the actions of their nationals, and should do their utmost to dismantle the supporting organs of the groups involved.

The Huffington Post

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## duhastmish

There is nothing much Pakistan can do here. terrorism is global issue. but as for India - we need to think of precaution factor than cure. why the politician say: we will go for war in another attack. how dare they say that - i don't want a bloody attack on my fellow citizen. we need to curb our own security we need to track down our people who help terrorist, 

i hate the fact that our lazy bloody government don't wanna do anything except to blame Pakistan. we need to do something solid on our ground. then ask Pakistan to do something. take a lesson from us of A and Briton.

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## PureLogic

duhastmish said:


> There is nothing much Pakistan can do here. terrorism is global issue. but as for India - we need to think of precaution factor than cure. why the politician say: we will go for war in another attack. how dare they say that - i don't want a bloody attack on my fellow citizen. we need to curb our own security we need to track down our people who help terrorist,
> 
> i hate the fact that our lazy bloody government don't wanna do anything except to blame Pakistan. we need to do something solid on our ground. then ask Pakistan to do something. take a lesson from us of A and Briton.



Right. They should do many things except blaming Pakistan. The Pakistan matter should be ONE OF THE actions and not the WHOLE action.


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## Flintlock

If something like Mumbai happens again, things could turn very dangerous. 

Pakistan should really be serious about dismantling the terror camps and make sure such a thing doesn't recur - for all our sakes.


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## ajpirzada

well next time keep ur eyes open. make sure ur radars are working and ur intelligence agencies are not eating biscuits while watchin shootout at lokhanwala. also tell ur navy to not only do exercises but also show the world that they learned something from those exercises. request ur maritime agencies to let the fishermen go if they feel sorry for them but please dont let ppl with guns enter indian water. and if u cant do this then atleast let pakistan know before hand that u have got intelligence that such this might happen.
in the end its a RAND report. they also talk about another major war.

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## koolio

Smooth Operator said:


> As long as Pakistan proves to be safe haven to these islamist terrorist with diabolical international agenda,such type of attacks will continue to be planned and attempted.
> 
> Next attack will definitely be the prelude to a war.



Why is it every time something goes on in the region is related to Pakistan, as if Pakistan is responsible for providing security cover to India or Afghanistan isn't it high time that India takes the responsibility of protecting its own citizens just recently the terrorists are coming from Afghanistan to attack Pakistan's army and telling its citizens to revert to Taliban style of way of life what is NATO doing there if they are unable to control Afghanistan's border and they keep telling Pakistan to do more, what more can Pakistan do.

Pakistan is already doing its maximum other countries need to take more responsibility.


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## macintosh

Next time anything like mumbai will happen with pak links established, India will launch war against pak and pak will try to persuade china to fight for it as well apart from providing back support.But china wont considering International obligations and repercussions of a direct war with India.So pak will try to use it's nukes (if it looks that pak is going to loose conventionally)first on strategic parts of India and India will retalliate.The end result: India will loose a few million people and Pak will become lawless with tens of millions of loss of it's people and India or china or U.S. or taliban will take over of whatever will be left of pak.
So it's in pak and India's interest that a second mumbai doesn't follow any time soon.


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## ajpirzada

macintosh said:


> Next time anything like mumbai will happen with pak links established, India will launch war against pak and pak will try to persuade china to fight for it as well apart from providing back support.But china wont considering International obligations and repercussions of a direct war with India.So pak will try to use it's nukes (if it looks that pak is going to loose conventionally)first on strategic parts of India and India will retalliate.The end result: India will loose a few million people and Pak will become lawless with tens of millions of loss of it's people and India or china or U.S. or taliban will take over of whatever will be left of pak.
> So it's in pak and India's interest that a second mumbai doesn't follow any time soon.



u should definately be a strategist. the war scenario which u presented is definately too gud for a bollywood movie.

pak asking china to fight for her
china wont coz of international obligation
pak loosing conventional war
so using nukes on strategic parts of india
india retaliating
US or taliban or india or china will take over pakistan (ill prefer bnagladesh to take over wateva is left after all they were our ppl)

does any of this make sense to u?????


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## Patriot

LOL @ Pak asking China to fight for us.China recently asked Pakistan to give list of the required weapons stuff in case India attacks but Pakistan said it's okay we have enough fire power to blow Indian's *****.


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## TOPGUN

macintosh said:


> Next time anything like mumbai will happen with pak links established, India will launch war against pak and pak will try to persuade china to fight for it as well apart from providing back support.But china wont considering International obligations and repercussions of a direct war with India.So pak will try to use it's nukes (if it looks that pak is going to loose conventionally)first on strategic parts of India and India will retalliate.The end result: India will loose a few million people and Pak will become lawless with tens of millions of loss of it's people and India or china or U.S. or taliban will take over of whatever will be left of pak.
> So it's in pak and India's interest that a second mumbai doesn't follow any time soon.



We have fought or own wars and if the time comes again ! which i hope not we shall do it again we shall give a punch for a slap! restashore on that all this u said is rubish all i know is that millions will die on both sides wat will war give u nothing but just so many lost lives so your gov needs to start thinking about working together on the wot !! in peace..


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## XYON

India has effectively lost the impetus to bash Pakistan and the West is no longer interested in the GoI's continual political bakwas on Mumbai. See the following to get another insight from a GORA instead of the proverbial locals. Maybe Indians can find his familial link to our Zaid Hamid?

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## XYON

Flintlock said:


> If something like Mumbai happens again, things could turn very dangerous.
> 
> Pakistan should really be serious about dismantling the terror camps and make sure such a thing doesn't recur - for all our sakes.



Drop the broken record like cantor.....PAKISTAN should do this or that yada yada yada!

I can assure you, it will happen again & again & again to India until such time the very reason for such incidents is not resolved once and for all.......i.e KASHMIR!

And please! your yakmaster Government said the same things when your Parliament was bonked by a few gun totting gooks and nothing has happened so far!

You see, the global power that be will not allow a nuke conflict between India & Pakistan and to whose benefit that serves the most is known to all!


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## metalfalcon

> India's foreign minister calls on the international community to discipline Islamabad over its alleged 'terrorism sponsorship' activities.



What the hell India is Doing, Just asking or make it DEMANDING handing over of Fugitives from Pakistan, If this is their Behavior and Tone of their Language then Mark my Words "They are getting Nothing from Pakistan".

India should focus more on her weakness in her police to counter the terrorists, Indian intelligences services who failed to convince the security officials of the threat, Indian NSG who failed to neutralize 10 terrorists and it took them almost three days to finish the job and India must learn why the NSG came so late. Indian Navy easily catches Pakistani Fisherman who by mistake enter Indian waters but fails to capture Terrorists who seem to be more organized and trained than their MARCOS.

If they refuse to hand over any Indian why the hell Pakistan should hand over any Pakistani to them. i really don't understand indian mentality.


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## XYON

Black Stone said:


> *India: Pakistan must be disciplined*
> 
> India's foreign minister calls on the international community to discipline Islamabad over its alleged 'terrorism sponsorship' activities.
> 
> In an apparent reference to Pakistan, Pranab Mukherjee said Wednesday that the problem of terrorism becomes complex when "recalcitrant" states do not recognize their international commitments.
> 
> "It clearly spells out that if a state apparatus sponsors terrorism as an act of state policy, or a recalcitrant state refuses to recognize its international commitments and responsibilities on not allowing the use of (its) territory for terror activities, the problem becomes more complex and difficult," Mukherjee said in New Delhi.
> 
> Tension has been running high between the nuclear-armed neighbors since the attacks on the Indian port city of Mumbai on November 26-29 which killed 179 people.
> 
> Comparing the magnitude of the Mumbai siege to the September 11 terror attacks in the US, the foreign minister emphasized terrorism today is not just an act of misguided individuals or a small group.
> 
> "Therefore it is high time for the international community to recognize that such recalcitrant states must be brought to discipline by resorting to various international mechanisms," he added.
> 
> The remarks are the latest among the tit-for-tat accusations between the two neighbors in the aftermath of last year's terror attacks on Mumbai.
> 
> New Delhi, London, and Washington hold a Pakistan-based militant group called Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) responsible for attacks.
> 
> Indian authorities are frustrated at what they see as Islamabad's slow response in arresting and prosecuting those allegedly involved in the case.
> 
> Islamabad has been angered by the Indian claims that Pakistani state agencies were engaged in the incident as well as India's repeated hints at a military option.
> 
> Pakistan has condemned the Mumbai attacks from the outset and has vehemently denied involvement of any of its agencies in the attacks.
> 
> Pakistan has so far detained scores of LeT members and members of an affiliated charity, the Jamaat-ul-Dawa (JuD), allegedly involved in the Mumbai siege. The country's Interior Ministry Chief Rehman Malik set a 10-day deadline at the weekend for an investigating team to complete a report.



OOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo........ I am SO scared of India now!


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## metalfalcon

Why they are asking the international community, why don't they just do it by themselves and face the Music. 

India must stop her terror activities in Pakistan through Afghanistan FIRST then ask Pakistan to do the same. you cannot Clap with one hand.


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## notorious_eagle

metalfalcon said:


> What the hell India is Doing, Just asking or make it DEMANDING handing over of Fugitives from Pakistan, If this is their Behavior and Tone of their Language then Mark my Words "They are getting Nothing from Pakistan".
> 
> India should focus more on her weakness in her police to counter the terrorists, Indian intelligences services who failed to convince the security officials of the threat, Indian NSG who failed to neutralize 10 terrorists and it took them almost three days to finish the job and India must learn why the NSG came so late. Indian Navy easily catches Pakistani Fisherman who by mistake enter Indian waters but fails to capture Terrorists who seem to be more organized and trained than their MARCOS.
> 
> If they refuse to hand over any Indian why the hell Pakistan should hand over any Pakistani to them. i really don't understand indian mentality.



I agree, i am amazed how the Indians are not blaming their government and security forces. I mean 10 people took a city of 18 million people hostage, this can only be possible in India.


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## duhastmish

notorious_eagle said:


> I agree, i am amazed how the Indians are not blaming their government and security forces. I mean 10 people took a city of 18 million people hostage, this can only be possible in India.



Sir 
you are right and wrong - you are right that there is a big mess of Indian government and security official.
but you are wrong that Indian are not blaming them-
as you might know the chief minister resigned many politician resigned - Indian politics is upside down. people are in fact only blaming government - its government which is blaming Pakistan. people here don't want Pakistan in a war with us - people actually don't even expect Pakistan to do much - people want government to do something and make sure this wont happen again!!
thank you

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## Salahadin

Thank you epool. please guys lets have a discussion on this video what does my indian friends have to say about this video, please advise


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## metalfalcon

duhastmish said:


> Sir
> you are right and wrong - you are right that there is a big mess of Indian government and security official.
> but you are wrong that Indian are not blaming them-
> as you might know the chief minister resigned many politician resigned - Indian politics is upside down. people are in fact only blaming government - its government which is blaming Pakistan. people here don't want Pakistan in a war with us - people actually don't even expect Pakistan to do much - people want government to do something and make sure this wont happen again!!
> thank you



Please try to understand _*my Indian friend from Lockheed*_ that we Pakistanis don't like the Ruling and Commanding Language of India or any other country at all and i hope you as Indian wont like this if someone is talking to you in such a manner. 

Why India is making Mumbai incident a political Issue _*why everything which happens in India is easily transformed into a tool to make vote Banks*_, I request Indian People to please keep Pakistan out of your Political Business and please don't use "Pakistan War Hysteria" card for Winning Elections, "_*We are tough on terrorism and we hate Pakistan so give us Vote*_". This is the Slogan every Political Party is saying now a days. 

Will you not agree with me that, Pakistan herself is in Trouble these days and many Pakistani small cities like SWAT and agencies in FATA are not under full control of GoP, And Pakistan is fighting a war against these Elements who are also responsible for Mumbai massacre.

I think India should have cooperated with Pakistan instead of Blaming and Discouraging Pakistani Efforts. India must understand Pakistani feelings and must think Logically India is asking much more than Pakistan can offer and that also in a very bad manner.


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## HAIDER

oooppps Indian so quickly forget state sponsored insurgency in Bangladesh...


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## Neo

*India disagrees with Britain over Kashmir dispute​*
NEW DELHI (January 22 2009): India rejected on Wednesday a suggestion by Britain that security in South Asia was linked to the Kashmir dispute, and urged nations to act against states which sponsor terrorism. "When the foreign secretary of the UK visited us he shared his perceptions about the situations, and I equally told him and all the interlocutors that this is your perception," India's Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee told reporters.

"We do not share with it," he said. British Foreign Secretary David Miliband said last week he did not believe Pakistan's government directed the November attacks in Mumbai that killed 179 people, and showed no support for India's demand for extradition of the accused.

He also said stability in South Asia was linked to resolution of the dispute over occupied Kashmir, which both India and Pakistan claim in full but rule only in part. Miliband's comments were seen as embarrassing the Indian government and highlighting a chasm between New Delhi and some of its key Western allies, which think there may not be enough evidence to implicate the Pakistani state. India says Pakistan militants that carried out that attack must have had the support of some state agencies.

But what has alarmed India the most was Miliband's comment on Kashmir, cause of two wars with Pakistan. India, analysts say, is worried Miliband's comments signalled a broader Western strategy that sees resolution of the dispute as crucial to bringing stability to Pakistan and Afghanistan.

India sees Kashmir as a bilateral issue and dismisses any outside influence. Reiterating India's frustration at Pakistan's failure to act against the militant group India blames for the Mumbai raids, Mukherjee urged the international community to act fast.

"It is high time for international community to recognise that such recalcitrant states must be brought to discipline by resorting to various international mechanisms," he told a regional security conference in New Delhi on Wednesday.


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## asq

There are lots of Loose canons in Indian Govt. who's mouth is running faster than the unfolding of the facts.

Let us wait for Kasab's DNA and go from there. I do not believe what you or anyone else says, we have experienced lies from India many times before, so we need to get his samples ourselves and test for hid DNA ourselves.


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## linkinpark

asq said:


> There are lots of Loose canons in Indian Govt. who's mouth is running faster than the unfolding of the facts.
> 
> Let us wait for Kasab's DNA and go from there. I do not believe what you or anyone else says, we have experienced lies from India many times before, so we need to get his samples ourselves and test for hid DNA ourselves.



Your government has already accepted Kasab as a Pakistani allegedly based on their own investigations. What is the need of DNA then?


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## asq

Flints post showing this Indian Canadian saying that Pakistan lost every war is so untrue, and than saying Pakistan establishment trained these guys is so false, so I would again say to Indians to stop the blame game and come clean at least for once in your life for god sake.

Listen again i said India has lied to us many times before.
about Sikhs killing in Kashmir at the time of bill Clinton visit.
attacks on Indian parliament by Kashmiris forced to attack or else their families in Kashmir will be killed, these guys made a mistake of accepting amnesty offered by India to kashmiris fighting for freedom.

and many more, so we will not accept your version till we test it ourselves.

Not to mention Baberi mosque.

Pakistan Govt has not accepted that Kasab till DNA is completed. Indian jumping the gun And patronizing us.

In English they say that 

" it is not over till fat lady sings" cupish.

But really india must come truthful, solve all the problems including Kashmir ASAP and open up borders , allow travel and make good relations with Pakistan.

And stop hoarding the water which comes from Kashmir to Pakistan,


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## Jihad

I don't know if any of you have read this somewhere, but I've read on a dutch newswebsite that the Indian high court is launching an investigation onto powerful Indian politicans who might've had a hand or a role in the Mumbai attacks.
It has been said that it was possible for the suspected politicians to have initiated or planned the Mumbai attacks because they wanted to get rid of certain elements including the Indian anti-terror chief Hermant Karkare, who has died in the attacks, also trying to harm and damage Pakistans image in these attacks was part of the plan of these politicians, something that has yet to be investigated to determine which politicians really were behind this.

I'm translating a large part of the dutch website: 'Politici schuldig bloedbad Mumbai' - Buitenland - Telegraaf.nl [24 uur actueel, ook mobiel] [buitenland]

It has been said that politicians from Maharashtra wanted Karkare to step down or get rid of him in some way because Karkare was on a trail and had important information about terrorist attacks and plannings regarding the Hindu extremist organisation "Hindutva".
Karkare had also been threatened several times due to his investigation.

The goal of the Indian investigation is to find out which politicians from Maharashtra wanted Karkare to step down in his position.
Also, the finance minister of Maharashtra who goes over the taxes and such has allegedly given funds and logistic aid to the purpetrators of the Mumbai attacks.
It has also been said that the only survivor of the Mumbai attacks, a Pakistani national (Ajmal Kasab), had been in jail in India before the attacks even occured.

the dutch newswebsite Telegraaf.nl - De website van wakker Nederland has gotten its information from the Indian "Radiance" news agency.

*This is a direct translation from Dutch to English, these are serious allegations and let's see if the investigation from Indian side will shed more light on this, i'm hoping for someone to have more proper source or information about this.*

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## Jihad

It looks like Mr. Mukherjee and all those other Indian ministers/politicians will have to swallow their words.
This is definitely a huge blow to the people who are keen on deteriorating relations between the two nations.

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## Jihad

Flintlock said:


> If something like Mumbai happens again, things could turn very dangerous.
> 
> Pakistan should really be serious about dismantling the terror camps and make sure such a thing doesn't recur - for all our sakes.



Please elaborate on the word "dangerous".


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## Orakzai

u silly pple who started this thread???? 
where is he now????
an american started form now he would b sittin on his seat watchin u pple and would b gettin amuse of wot u pple throwin shits on each other.

n this is wot they r doin from an ages ago to our countries too

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## Flintlock

epool said:


> Drop the broken record like cantor.....PAKISTAN should do this or that yada yada yada!
> 
> I can assure you, it will happen again & again & again to India until such time the very reason for such incidents is not resolved once and for all.......i.e KASHMIR!



If Pakistan doesn't rein in the terrorists, it will harm Pakistan first, and then India.

Just remember that before predicting such things.

This is not 1989. It is 2009. Things don't work the same way anymore. If Pakistani territory is used to attack another country, it not only spoils your country's image, but leads to some real consequences, as the leaders and people of Pakistan are discovering every day.


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## Flintlock

Jihad said:


> Please elaborate on the word "dangerous".



It means that the GOI will come under tremendous domestic pressure to 'do something'.


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## notorious_eagle

Flintlock said:


> It means that the GOI will come under tremendous domestic pressure to 'do something'.



Your absolutely right, prolly GOI will repeat what they did in 2001 and what they did just now in 2008. You are right we are not living in 1989 anymore, so its about time India stops supporting terror inside Pakistan by giving arms and money to BLA and other terrorists on the Afghan border.


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## Flintlock

notorious_eagle said:


> Your absolutely right, prolly GOI will repeat what they did in 2001 and what they did just now in 2008. You are right we are not living in 1989 anymore, so its about time India stops supporting terror inside Pakistan by giving arms and money to BLA and other terrorists on the Afghan border.



Well if you guys have any solid evidence, do present it in front of the world - the globalized world works both ways, not one way.


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## Captain03

great post
simply amazing


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## jeypore

Jihad said:


> I don't know if any of you have read this somewhere, but I've read on a dutch newswebsite that the Indian high court is launching an investigation onto powerful Indian politicans who might've had a hand or a role in the Mumbai attacks.
> It has been said that it was possible for the suspected politicians to have initiated or planned the Mumbai attacks because they wanted to get rid of certain elements including the Indian anti-terror chief Hermant Karkare, who has died in the attacks, also trying to harm and damage Pakistans image in these attacks was part of the plan of these politicians, something that has yet to be investigated to determine which politicians really were behind this.
> 
> I'm translating a large part of the dutch website: 'Politici schuldig bloedbad Mumbai' - Buitenland - Telegraaf.nl [24 uur actueel, ook mobiel] [buitenland]
> 
> It has been said that politicians from Maharashtra wanted Karkare to step down or get rid of him in some way because Karkare was on a trail and had important information about terrorist attacks and plannings regarding the Hindu extremist organisation "Hindutva".
> Karkare had also been threatened several times due to his investigation.
> 
> The goal of the Indian investigation is to find out which politicians from Maharashtra wanted Karkare to step down in his position.
> Also, the finance minister of Maharashtra who goes over the taxes and such has allegedly given funds and logistic aid to the purpetrators of the Mumbai attacks.
> It has also been said that the only survivor of the Mumbai attacks, a Pakistani national (Ajmal Kasab), had been in jail in India before the attacks even occured.
> 
> the dutch newswebsite Telegraaf.nl - De website van wakker Nederland has gotten its information from the Indian "Radiance" news agency.
> 
> *This is a direct translation from Dutch to English, these are serious allegations and let's see if the investigation from Indian side will shed more light on this, i'm hoping for someone to have more proper source or information about this.*



Something this big would be first in Indian news paper, before it even hit the dutch papers.


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## linkinpark

Something is lost in translation, I have never seen any such news in Indian or other World media yet.


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## notorious_eagle

Flintlock said:


> Well if you guys have any solid evidence, do present it in front of the world - the globalized world works both ways, not one way.



So those dozens of consulates that India has opened in Afghanistan are to give those poor Afghans work visas . Please buddy we are not dumb, we know whats going on in Afghanistan. As far as the evidence is concerned, ISI handed the evidence over to CIA regarding Indian activity but like India we are a bunch of whinners. We dont like to make a fool out of ourselves crying like a little ***** infront of the world. Oh and btw, how about India starts handing over evidence to Pakistan instead of information. GOI blames ISI for all the problems in India, heck there was a report that ISI was trying to spread aids among Indian personals . I guess all this whining has brought GOI to a defensive position, even though they were in a position of strength after the Mumbai attacks.


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## Flintlock

notorious_eagle said:


> So those dozens of consulates that India has opened in Afghanistan are to give those poor Afghans work visas . Please buddy we are not dumb, we know whats going on in Afghanistan. As far as the evidence is concerned, ISI handed the evidence over to CIA regarding Indian activity but like India we are a bunch of whinners. We dont like to make a fool out of ourselves crying like a little ***** infront of the world.



Fine then, don't 'whine'. Just let internet warriors whine about it on internet forums, if that's what you want.


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## EagleEyes

macintosh said:


> Next time anything like mumbai will happen with pak links established, India will launch war against pak and pak will try to persuade china to fight for it as well apart from providing back support.But china wont considering International obligations and repercussions of a direct war with India.So pak will try to use it's nukes (if it looks that pak is going to loose conventionally)first on strategic parts of India and India will retalliate.The end result: India will loose a few million people and Pak will become lawless with tens of millions of loss of it's people and India or china or U.S. or taliban will take over of whatever will be left of pak.
> So it's in pak and India's interest that a second mumbai doesn't follow any time soon.



Dear Cheif of Staff,

What makes you think that India will lose less people than Pakistan?

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## asaad-ul-islam

yet again, we see war-mongering indians daydreaming about indian capabilities and grossly underestimating ours. please grow up and behave, you CANNOT attack Pakistan. You couldn't do it in 2002, you couldn't do it now. You guys thought and boasted that you had complete superiority, yet your forces knew that war with us, even in our weakened state, would spell disaster. 

over the past month, your voice to take action against us has weakened, and all the 'fuss' has died down. everyone is ignoring you now, and to top it off, the russians are screwing you for your money. so please do stop this madness. just seeing you guys holding your heads up high even after you have been wasted the past year, is too painful to watch.

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## jeypore

> The report acknowledges that both countries have nuclear weapons, making any military action a dangerous course, but warns if *India does not respond*, that would signal a lack of Indian resolve or capability.
> 
> Without an appropriate response, Pakistan, or at least those *elements of its military and intelligence leadership that are supportive of the activities of groups like the LT, are likely to conclude that these operations, in some measure, yield benefits that exceed the cost,* said RAND while releasing the study titled The Lessons of Mumbai.



Atleast from the report the findings are that India does need to keep preassure on Pakistan because if it does not the report clearly says the elements in Pakistan establishment found a way of cheap proxy war. What i am amazed about that the Pakistan Gov't clearly knows that there are rouge player in there military and intelligence agency and there has been no crack down or even as far as recognition that it exists. 


India is in catch 22 here, where preassure has to be mounted, yet it clearly see no sign from the Pakistan establishment. Infact the blame game is still being played not only to India, but even internally between the agencys. Overall it is going to remain a status quo, where relation or no relation will not even matter.


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## XYON

Flintlock said:


> If Pakistan doesn't rein in the terrorists, it will harm Pakistan first, and then India.
> 
> Just remember that before predicting such things.
> 
> This is not 1989. It is 2009. Things don't work the same way anymore. If Pakistani territory is used to attack another country, it not only spoils your country's image, but leads to some real consequences, as the leaders and people of Pakistan are discovering every day.



Yeah! Yeah! You first try to look at your own border which is porous enough that dangerous criminals get through and tight enough that all the legal fishermen get caught day in and out! We in Pakistan know what are our issues and problems and are handling them! 

Secondly, LeT which your GoI blames for the Mumbai Mow Down is a Kashmir specific organization (and yet GoI is stupid enough top say that the event was not related to Kashmir!!). Like I said before resolve KASHMIR and you will not have these problems! And you are right this is 2009 and not 1989! What 'consequences' are you referring to? Please list them so that I could answer each for you.


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## ejaz007

Perhaps Indian press was prevented from publishing the news.


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## Jihad

jeypore said:


> Something this big would be first in Indian news paper, before it even hit the dutch papers.



The dutch news site, which is also one of the most red news paper in the Netherlands, got their information straight from an Indian counterpart.
Trust me, usually, a website like this one, telegraaf.nl, doesn't give two hoots of what happens in Pakistan or in India or between them for that matter, something big has to happen between these 2 nations in order for it to make it to the dutch news.
I got the feeling that there is indeed something going on in India, it still has yet to be confirmed.


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## Jihad

Flintlock said:


> It means that the GOI will come under tremendous domestic pressure to 'do something'.



Care to elaborate on the "do something" part?
Oh nevermind, I smell a warmongerer.


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## Flintlock

Jihad said:


> Care to elaborate on the "do something" part?
> Oh nevermind, I smell a warmongerer.



You need to get your nose checked.


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## binzaman

*Here comes a brand new story from Bollywood on mumbai drama. The old stories were flopped at world box office. So our intelligent neighbors came out with this one.... hope this time it will work*


Chinese secret intelligence involved in helping Pakistan in Mumbai massacre?
Ishant Joshi
Jan. 1, 2009

Sources in China are eager not to call Pakistan any culprit. The shadow ISI (the unofficial intelligence militia of Kiani) may have received direct help and intelligence from Chinese secret military intelligence in carrying out the Mumbai massacre.

Beijing: Xinhua, the Chinese government run news agency, has blamed the "Deccan Mujahideen" for the attack on Mumbai that killed 172 people and injured nearly 300 others. It made no mention of India's insistence that the terrorists came from Pakistan and were supported by forces in the neighboring country Pakistan.

The description of the incident fits in with the overall attitude of the Chinese official media to spare Pakistan of any blame for the incident. The local media has been giving a lot of play to defensive statements from Pakistani leaders while underplaying the charges made by India.

*Chinese made advanced arms and ammunitions were used in carrying out the heinous act. There are indirect indications that Chinese military intelligence in India may have helped the rubber rafts coming into the Indian shore. India Navy is looking into the means these terrorists used to fool Indian coast guard deterrents.*

*Some very advanced intelligence organization helped the terrorists and their sponsors to cause maximum panic and destruction with a limited resource. Pakistans ISI is not that capable just alone working with its mediocre intelligence and espionage personnel.*

Chinas eagerness to protect Kiani of Pakistan raises some serious questions about Chinese involvement in Mumbai massacre. Sooner or later RAW and CBI will find out the secret Chinese connections but Indian public will be kept in the dark for international political reasons. 

IndiaDaily - Chinese secret intelligence involved in helping Pakistan in Mumbai massacre?


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## Jihad

Flintlock said:


> You need to get your nose checked.



And you need to get your mindset and your attitude checked.
All this constant indirect bullsh!t coming from people like you who basically say that Pakistan will not go unpunished because of these attacks and where the Pakistani people and government actually have nothing to do with, are really useless.
You people actually don't really desire peace with Pakistan, you don't even want to solve it if I see it from the Indian point of view, as long as you can "punish" Pakistan it's all ok.
Once again, like your ministers, like your people, and like yourself, all the threats and possible strike/war scenario's coming from Indian mouths are nothing but big talk.


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## XYON

Poor Manmohan Singh, I think he has taken the statement of David Miliband on Kashmir being the core of all issues literally to his heart! And add to that all that tension of the public anger towards the Congress Party and in turn Pakistan's clear-cut warning to go full scale even if a stone is thrown across the border!! I feel sorry for the Sikh bloke already!


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## Jihad

epool said:


> Poor Manmohan Singh, I think he has taken the statement of David Miliband on Kashmir being the core of all issues literally to his heart! And add to that all that tension of the public anger towards the Congress Party and in turn Pakistan's clear-cut warning to go full scale even if a stone is thrown across the border!! I feel sorry for the Sikh bloke already!



I feel sorry for the Indians who've been dieing to teach Pakistan a lesson or two with their outdated Military.

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## ajpirzada

jeypore said:


> Atleast from the report the findings are that India does need to keep preassure on Pakistan because if it does not the report clearly says the elements in Pakistan establishment found a way of cheap proxy war. *What i am amazed about that the Pakistan Gov't clearly knows that there are rouge player in there military and intelligence agency and there has been no crack down or even as far as recognition that it exists*.
> 
> 
> India is in catch 22 here, where preassure has to be mounted, yet it clearly see no sign from the Pakistan establishment. Infact the blame game is still being played not only to India, but even internally between the agencys. Overall it is going to remain a status quo, where relation or no relation will not even matter.



and i am amazed about u sayin that without any evidence. pak involvement has never been proved. neither in mumbai, nor in wats goin on in afghanistan. these are ur thoughts based on the propoganda goin on in media over the last many years. even the americans have got no evidence which supports their suspicion of pak supportin talibans. world media however considers american suspicions as facts.
now if there is no evidence then how can u ask us to take actions. i guess its ur country which needs to get rid of rouge elements from her army and establishment.


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## Jihad

I have yet to come across information about it in English, so here another translation from yet another dutch news website.

*
There are indications that Indian politicians and Hindu extremists are behind the attacks in Mumbai last November. It is thought that statesmen of Maharashtra wanted to get rid of the head of the anti-terrorism bureau, Hermant Karkare, whilst putting the blame on Pakistan as reported by Radiance, a weekly magazine. Hermant Karkare was one of the 163 victims killed during the attacks. Karkare was investigating the hindu terrorist group Hindutva suspected to be planning an attack and had received death threats. An independent investigation is underway to find the politicians who demanded Karkare's resignation and which of them has provided financial means for the attacks. Remarkably, the only gunman who was captured alive, a pakistani, was already serving a sentence in jail for another crime.*


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## metalfalcon

Jihad said:


> I have yet to come across information about it in English, so here another translation from yet another dutch news website.
> 
> *
> There are indications that Indian politicians and Hindu extremists are behind the attacks in Mumbai last November. It is thought that statesmen of Maharashtra wanted to get rid of the head of the anti-terrorism bureau, Hermant Karkare, whilst putting the blame on Pakistan as reported by Radiance, a weekly magazine. Hermant Karkare was one of the 163 victims killed during the attacks. Karkare was investigating the hindu terrorist group Hindutva suspected to be planning an attack and had received death threats. An independent investigation is underway to find the politicians who demanded Karkare's resignation and which of them has provided financial means for the attacks. Remarkably, the only gunman who was captured alive, a pakistani, was already serving a sentence in jail for another crime.*



Truth is going to be exposed soon, It was never a LeT operation, Simple Reason they are not Organized and they Lack the Resources to do so.


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## was

Sources in China are eager not to call Pakistan any culprit. The shadow ISI (the unofficial intelligence militia of Kiani) may have received direct help and intelligence from Chinese secret military intelligence in carrying out the Mumbai massacre.

Beijing: Xinhua, the Chinese government run news agency, has blamed the "Deccan Mujahideen" for the attack on Mumbai that killed 172 people and injured nearly 300 others. It made no mention of India's insistence that the terrorists came from Pakistan and were supported by forces in the neighboring country Pakistan.

The description of the incident fits in with the overall attitude of the Chinese official media to spare Pakistan of any blame for the incident. The local media has been giving a lot of play to defensive statements from Pakistani leaders while underplaying the charges made by India.

Chinese made advanced arms and ammunitions were used in carrying out the heinous act. There are indirect indications that Chinese military intelligence in India may have helped the rubber rafts coming into the Indian shore. India Navy is looking into the means these terrorists used to fool Indian coast guard deterrents.

Some very advanced intelligence organization helped the terrorists and their sponsors to cause maximum panic and destruction with a limited resource. Pakistans ISI is not that capable just alone working with its mediocre intelligence and espionage personnel.

Chinas eagerness to protect Kiani of Pakistan raises some serious questions about Chinese involvement in Mumbai massacre. Sooner or later RAW and CBI will find out the secret Chinese connections but Indian public will be kept in the dark for international political reasons. 

IndiaDaily - Chinese secret intelligence involved in helping Pakistan in Mumbai massacre?



mods if you want delete this please delete it after 2 or 3 days.let us laugh


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## metalfalcon

Oh God, am i Dreaming or what, I just read in another Thread on  that CIA was behind these attacks Now Chinese are also being Dragged into this Incident. Even Bengalis were not spared. India is trying to make best out of this incident and target all the Enemies but One bullet at the same time.


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## metalfalcon

> Chinese made advanced arms and ammunitions were used in carrying out the heinous act. There are indirect indications that Chinese military intelligence in India may have helped the rubber rafts coming into the Indian shore. India Navy is looking into the means these terrorists used to fool Indian coast guard deterrents.



Chinese arms or any other kind of arms and ammunition are not a big deal in Pakistan and these kind of people have all the resources to get these kind of weapons. By the way this is the 1st time Indians are Admiring that Chinese have advanced arms (they always thought that all Chinese products are made up of Plastic ). About Rubber rafts...... I don't think Terrorist Got them from China on special order (Or by Online Shopping). Regarding Fooling of Indian Coast Guard.....nobody needs to do that.


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## metalfalcon

> Some very advanced intelligence organization helped the terrorists and their sponsors to cause maximum panic and destruction with a limited resource. *Pakistan&#8217;s ISI is not that capable just alone working with its mediocre intelligence and espionage* personnel.



In other words _*IT WAS NOT DONE BY THE ISI RIGHT*_. At last Indian got this.


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## metalfalcon

> Chinas eagerness to protect Kiani of Pakistan raises some serious questions about Chinese involvement in Mumbai massacre. Sooner or later RAW and CBI will find out the secret Chinese connections but Indian public will be kept in the dark for international political reasons.



Who is *" Kiani "*  I Know Only Gen. Kiyani and How is China Protecting Gen.Kiyani ?



> Sooner or later *RAW* and CBI will find out the secret Chinese connections but Indian public will be kept in the dark for international political reasons.



Look who is Investigating, Will they ever say we were the ones who did it ? NO 

_*Indian Public will remain in Dark, Truth is what Indian Media and Indian Agencies want them to know.*_


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## TOPGUN

Haha wat stupid rubish lol hahahahaah


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## Captain03

how lame
the only reason the indian media is doing this is becuase a chinese newspaper stated that the mumbai massacre was internally organized in india
they should watch out though
the chinese intelligence is very smart
even the cia cant keep track of them


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## BanglaBhoot

I think a case of biting off more than they can chew. Not finding any credible information against Pakistan the Indians are now bringing everyone and everything into the conspiracy including the kitchen sink and soon aliens.


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## pama

If one more attack happens then as this incident India will prove it is from Pakistan soil and world will tell to dismantle its terror infrastructure.
Pakistan will act as if it is acting and never really does.

That's why Obama is linking its aid to results not to how it is acting.

If you feed snake it will bite you.
You feeded taliban now they are biting you.

Same will happen with LT as well.


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## pama

Please below as reply
YouTube - Secret Government - Pakistan

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## pama

Jihad said:


> I feel sorry for the Indians who've been dieing to teach Pakistan a lesson or two with their outdated Military.



No really we fell sorry for you as your army fail to protect your territory and your men in war.
Refrain comparing war prisoners from our army.

Is 1971 lesson not enough you want more?

do not ignite with these statements and check reality.


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## Salahadin

pama said:


> Please below as reply
> YouTube - Secret Government - Pakistan



this video is disabled


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## haviZsultan

epool said:


> India has effectively lost the impetus to bash Pakistan and the West is no longer interested in the GoI's continual political bakwas on Mumbai. See the following to get another insight from a GORA instead of the proverbial locals. Maybe Indians can find his familial link to our Zaid Hamid?
> 
> dOyCG6zKRXA[/media] - Alex Jones American Analyst Exposing Mumbai Attacks



If u're not in Canada and US dont say that. I really hate to admit but sadly the traitors from our own country and the indians did a brilliant job. Also when india moved forces to the border an article came out pakistan preparing for war with india. 

Media was absolutely biased. Our viewpoint was not even represented at all. Zaid Hamid was famous in Pakistan and with some indians who stopped and questioned thinking what if its true but with others....

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## pama

Salahadin said:


> this video is disabled



ohh may be restricted by your country.

but very good one


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## dave007

Had the west not been won by India, Pakistan would'nt have been taking action. It is not India today that has toned down its rhetoric.Infact it is Pakistan that has come along way from denying Kasab's nationalty to accepting it..to eventually saying the evidence is credible.It was not a coincidence that US secretaryof State Condeleeza Rice visited India before Pakistan right after 26/11.


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## dave007

*Pakistan was Complicit in the Mumbai Attacks* 
Sherryn Taylor, New York Times.
.


CommentsAfter the terrorist attacks on Mumbai on November 26, 2008, tensions between India and Pakistan were ratcheted up almost instantly. While the involvement of the terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which is based at least partially in Pakistan, was established relatively early on, the involvement of the Pakistani government, its intelligence services, or agents associated with them has been a more controversial and enduring source of tension. The Pakistani government denies these allegations.

The Indian government recently released a dossier of evidence gathered about the Mumbai attacks, presumably in an effort to put pressure on the international community and on Pakistan to go after the perpetrators. The following is an analysis of this dossier. For the sake of analysis, I take the evidence at face value; it is possible that some information has been omitted, exaggerated, or otherwise altered to serve the motives behind its release. Furthermore, my analysis may be erroneous, even if the dossier is not.

That being said, let's dive in.

The Terrorists

There were ten involved in the attack, nine of whom were killed. The tenth was captured, and presumably is the source of a fair bit of the information presented in the dossier. All ten were Pakistani; 9 hailed from the Punjab province, while the other was from the North-West Frontier Province. For what it's worth, the British considered certain tribes from Punjab to be more "martial" than those residing elsewhere in the portion of British India that became Pakistan. Many of the Pakistani Army's recruits were historically and are today residents of this province. The proportion of Punjabis in the army is higher than their proportion of the population as a whole (two thirds of the army vs. half of the general populace). However, there is no evidence that military personnel were actually involved.

Their Training

The terrorists were taught "a basic knowledge of firearms, ammunition, grenades and explosives" including how to "handle and fire Kalashnikov rifles and 9mm pistols and also how to fabricate explosive devices. They were also imparted training in techniques to counter interrogation and tolerate pain. Besides, they were indoctrinated to become suicide attackers." It seems unlikely that providing this training would be beyond the capabilities of a group which has been active for at least 25 years.

Their Equipment

The terrorists seemed to have a standardized set of equipment - an AK-series automatic rifle, a pistol, several spare ammo clips, several grenades, and a GPS unit and/or a cell/satellite phone. Some terrorists also carried IEDs. All of this equipment is readily available either on the black market (the guns/ammunition/grenades/IEDs) or from retailers in Pakistan (phones/GPS). The latter devices were made by well-known and widely available producers (Magellan for the GPS; Nokia and Thuraya for the phones; all three brands have retail outlets in Pakistan). 

Logistics and Support

Here the evidence is more mixed. The terrorists hijacked a fishing boat which transported them from an offshore location fairly close to the India-Pakistan border (if not further; this is the first checkpoint on the recovered GPS devices) to a point a mile or so off the coast of Mumbai. The terrorists also made a number of calls to locations in Pakistan, via a routing device with links to Austria. The costs associated with the latter were covered by a Western Union payment made in Italy. The only suspicious element of the call transcripts included in the dossier were references to a director of the attack who was referred to as "Major General." However, this could well be an artificial rank created by a terrorist organization, rather than concrete evidence of military involvement. One oddity is that the recovered GPS units were pre-programmed with a return route, which is inconsistent with the dossier's claim that the terrorists were indoctrinated as a suicide unit. 

The dossier's narrative concludes with the following:



The evidence gathered so far unmistakably points to the territory of Pakistan as a source of the terrorist attacks in Mumbai... It is also abundantly clear that senior functionaries of the LeT were the controllers/handlers of the ten terrorists. The evidence unmistakably establishes that the ten terrorists were chosen, trained, despatched [sic], controlled and guided by the LeT which is the organisation responsible for the terrorist attacks in Mumbai.

Conclusion

The evidence contained in the dossier seems to strongly support the claim made at the end of the narrative. However, other claims made in the aftermath of its release are not supported by the information made publicly available. Several elements of the attack - the transfer of the terrorists from the fishing vessel to the city itself and the synchronization of the attack on the Taj Mahal, which included two pairs of terrorists, one of which was assigned to attack a different target beforehand - appear to require a fair amount of skill. However, the Taliban is one group that operates in the region with experience in coordinating attacks involving several hundred assailants, albeit with more localized targets. LeT is linked to the Taliban by, among others, the United Nations Security Council, whose Al-Qaida and Taliban Sanctions Committee was responsible for sanctioning LeT and its senior leaders. It is not unlikely that these related groups would actively share information about planning, training, and tactics.


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## Jihad

pama said:


> No really we fell sorry for you as your army fail to protect your territory and your men in war.
> Refrain comparing war prisoners from our army.
> 
> Is 1971 lesson not enough you want more?
> 
> do not ignite with these statements and check reality.



Not to derail the thread, but who says 1971 was won by India?
Also, you check reality and READ statements coming from YOUR military commanders and generals, even they say that they drastically need to improve the whole military branch because it is inadequate especially in time of war.

Thanks.


----------



## DarkStar

1971 was mainly the culmination of a civil war between Pakistanis themselves. Now if Bharat had occupied East Pakistan and annexed it, the story would have been different. Instead, Bharat has created a new headache for themselves, as border clashes between Bengladesh and Bharat show.


----------



## DarkStar

pama said:


> If one more attack happens then as this incident India will prove it is from Pakistan soil and world will tell to dismantle its terror infrastructure.
> Pakistan will act as if it is acting and never really does.
> 
> That's why Obama is linking its aid to results not to how it is acting.
> 
> If you feed snake it will bite you.
> You feeded taliban now they are biting you.
> 
> Same will happen with LT as well.



You should know about feeding the snake that comes back to bite you. Have you forgotten the assasination of RAjiv Gandhi.

Even if Pakistan ceased to exist, these attacks like Mumbai would still happen. This is because they are home grown attacks, by disenfranchised and desperate people. 

We all know that Bharat pointed the finger at Pakistan in order to stave off communal tensions. If the govt. had accepted that it was the work of the Deccan Mujahideen, there would have been a bloodbath of muslims in Mumbai, like 1994. The congress govt. is very clever, and has avoided this scenario by squarely blaming Pakistan. We're the proverbial scapegoat in this matter.


----------



## afriend

Well lets not argue whther these terrorists came from abroad or not. Its proven and understood that they came from pakistan and did this heneious crime with some local support in india. However its high time that we upgrade our internal security mechanism, flush out the local terrorists plus the ones comming from abroad. And threat and pointing figures in a threating manner doesnt work, 
however it should be understood that pakistan too have its responsiblities and is not doing good enough to round up these non state actors, they are having a hard time in swat areas i don't know whther the establishment is strong enough and want another head ache for the sake of indian good will. I presume they would give preference to the WOT headed by america than the terrorists aiming india, this should be avoided. And pakistan should be serious enough to disband anti india groups or shut down their training camps and make sure they dont regroup else this will continue till a point of break, which would result in drastic consequences for the region.


----------



## Flintlock

darkStar said:


> 1971 was mainly the culmination of a civil war between Pakistanis themselves. Now if Bharat had occupied East Pakistan and annexed it, the story would have been different. Instead, Bharat has created a new headache for themselves, as border clashes between Bengladesh and Bharat show.



You haven't been following the news lately I guess. the new Bangladeshi government has given up its mistrust of India and is looking to build a new relationship.
And guess what, the overwhelming majority of Bangladeshis support them.


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## DarkStar

WEll, to be fair, Pakistan has never used the sort of jingoistic rhetoric that Bharat usualy does. 

In terms of war, the only warning we've given is that we have a first nuclear strike policy, that is, we won't wait for an Indian nuke, we'll set one off first.

Apart from this, I don't recall any rhetoric in my lifetime. Bharat on the other hand, is constantly expounding its might on its media and in political statements.

The cheek of the ROI govt. to pin the blame of the Mumbai attacks on Pakistan, while the perpetrators were Bharatis is astonishing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## DarkStar

I know of the new Bengladeshi govt. But the fact is, this change will not stop the hysterics of the Bharatia media concerning Bengladeshi infiltrators and so forth.


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## DarkStar

there is no proof that the mumbai attackers were Pakistanis. As for this Kasab guy (i've never heard this surname in Pakistan before) there are various reports of him being captured months before the mumbai attacks, and teh doctors reports saying that he had no gunshot wounds when he was brought to hospital.

The story that we have been spoon fed by the Bharati establishment is at times ludicrous and others comic.

In sympathy to the victims of the attack, it would be better that the investigators tried to find out who the real culprits are, rather than pointing the finger at Pakistan to protect communal harmony in Bharat.


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## afriend

darkstar.. kindly follow the news and comment. Your comments are contradiciting the facts..!!!!


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## hj786

Some terrorists attacked Mumbai and they may have been trained in Pakistan. 
Pakistan has already taken action against the accused organisation.
What is your point? 
Why haven't you posted the media headlines saying Pakistan has taken action against the organisation? That proves you are biased and will always be blind to the full story - you only see and believe your Indian anti-Pakistan side, nothing more.


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## pama

darkStar said:


> there is no proof that the mumbai attackers were Pakistanis. As for this Kasab guy (i've never heard this surname in Pakistan before) there are various reports of him being captured months before the mumbai attacks, and teh doctors reports saying that he had no gunshot wounds when he was brought to hospital.
> 
> The story that we have been spoon fed by the Bharati establishment is at times ludicrous and others comic.
> 
> In sympathy to the victims of the attack, it would be better that the investigators tried to find out who the real culprits are, rather than pointing the finger at Pakistan to protect communal harmony in Bharat.



You are the most benighted person I have meet in this forum.
Pakistan government has accept kasab is Pakistan and attackers are from Pakistan.

Do not derail this tread.


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## XYON

pama said:


> You are the most benighted person I have meet in this forum.
> Pakistan government has accept kasab is Pakistan *and attackers are from Pakistan.*
> 
> Do not derail this tread.



Source of this particular claim please? Kasab, OK! but the nationality of the rest of the criminals who raped Mumbai is still not confirmed by Pakistan!


----------



## XYON

dave007 said:


> Had the west not been won by India, Pakistan would'nt have been taking action. It is not India today that has toned down its rhetoric.Infact it is Pakistan that has come along way from denying Kasab's nationalty to accepting it..to eventually saying the evidence is credible.It was not a coincidence that US secretaryof State Condeleeza Rice visited India before Pakistan right after 26/11.



Great Tactical Assessment you have made there! Thanks to the Mumbai Mow Down, Indian Politicians Stupidity to outright blame Pakistan, the shoddy dossier provided as evidence etc etc......KASHMIR is back on the burner. As David Miliband pointed out during his last visit to India, Kashmir is now the No.1 issue for the Americans and the rest of the west! Maybe something GOOD will eventually come out of this Mumbai Mow Down after all as Kashmir may very well be resolved in the Obama administration! Richard Holbroke will ensure that! My favorite expression is from the Times of London (I think) which says that KASHMIR IS THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM WHICH INDIA CANNOT IGNORE! 

So once again, great Job done India! Your politicians stupidity is good for our foreign policy! Keep it up!


----------



## Vinod2070

darkStar said:


> WEll, to be fair, Pakistan has never used the sort of jingoistic rhetoric that Bharat usualy does.
> 
> In terms of war, the only warning we've given is that we have a first nuclear strike policy, that is, we won't wait for an Indian nuke, we'll set one off first.
> 
> Apart from this, I don't recall any rhetoric in my lifetime. Bharat on the other hand, is constantly expounding its might on its media and in political statements.
> 
> *The cheek of the ROI govt. to pin the blame of the Mumbai attacks on Pakistan, while the perpetrators were Bharatis is astonishing.*



Welcome back DS!

What was that in your highlighted comment! Did you see something in the Belgian media that the rest of us missed? Didn't they tell you that the GOP has accepted that the terrorists were Pakistanis, that your government ministers agreed that the proofs presented were good enough for Pakistan to start her own investigation, that they will be completing their investigation in 10 days and will share the results!

You missed all of that or are we missing something?


----------



## DarkStar

Vinod2070 said:


> Welcome back DS!
> 
> What was that in your highlighted comment! Did you see something in the Belgian media that the rest of us missed? Didn't they tell you that the GOP has accepted that the terrorists were Pakistanis, that your government ministers agreed that the proofs presented were good enough for Pakistan to start her own investigation, that they will be completing their investigation in 10 days and will share the results!
> 
> You missed all of that or are we missing something?



Thanks Vinod. 

Listen, we shouldn't be slaves to the latest media soundbites. I'm sure there is a lot of analysis going on which is not neccessarily reported by the media.

I have no proof that the perpetrators were Bharatis, but the story that the ROI is giving has many discrepancies in it, at least for the likes of me.

On another level, I understand what Manmohan Singh did, blaming Pakistan even before the attacks had stopped, let alone waiting for an investigation. He had to do this to avert the expected communal violence and rioting that would have followed if people believed that the perpetrators were local muslims.


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## macintosh

"India likely to face more Mumbai-style attacks"

May be you were right as two terrorists,one of them belonging to kasab's district, were killed by UP ATS before striking in DELHI.

Pak just dont learn lesson or govt dont seem to have control over terrorists anymore.


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## pama

No only India Entire world is likely to face this type of attacks.
Spain has attested 9 Pakistani terrorists recently which proves this.

US says it is likely to face this type of attacks next>


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## Blueclub

XiNiX said:


> *judge it for ur self do they look foriegn.
> they look indians 1000&#37;.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure That the GoV of pakistan has more sensible people.
> Your Govt has Admitted that Kasab is a Pakistani.. Still This Argument ?
> 
> More over suppose an Indian who looks 99.99% like a pakistani or bangladeshi , makes a lookup of the traditional wear of ur country and does something wrong , is it even 1% sensible to judge the nationality of a person by clothes ?
> 
> Come to India , you see Germans , Americans dressed as Indians.. This doesnt mean what u stressed on..
> 
> 
> 
> *Ask This to Mr. Nawaz Shareef who Claimed it to be True on TV Live !*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even if its a Conspiracy , I dont Think pakistan is a fool to accept it. They accepted it coz its True.
> 
> 
> 
> ??
> 
> 
> 
> Your source of the Claim ??
> 
> 
> 
> Then Your Govt is a Group of Mindless people to admit them as Pakistani.. Come on How many times will u repeat this Fiction ?
> 
> AND finally
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly , all the statements include a "Indian" hand ..
> So All your Points are Thrashed by a single statement of Mine that When Pak GoV has admitted Kasab to be Pakistani then it menas the terrosrists were from pak ( I dont say its common people , i know that even they hate terrorism ) .
> 
> Secondly , I agree that radical Hindu elemets exist and thay are to be blamed for their activites , but They are NOt Capable of Such a strike , Infact Even ULFA or similar organistations cant Do It.
> 
> 
> 
> I have friends who know more than an average Pakistani about pakistan.. ( Reading hobby and Google earth Surfers ) , Does that imply they are pakistani ?
> 
> 
> 
> The Terrorists Didnt make a TV show to Claim their identity !
> We Dont make Conclusions before investigating it.
> 
> 
> 
> Childish , are Hollywood Movies banned in PAK ?
> 
> You make this statement in 21st Century ?
> 
> *Does Every man in Pak have a Beard ?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whats Wrong in It ?
> 
> 
> 
> Source ?
> 
> 
> 
> In case of Crisis Even India Gave Blankets to Pak and Pak did the same in Gujrat Earth Quake .. Any Coonection ?
> Its called "Human Response" if u understand it.
> And if u understand it more .. Its Publicity Stunt as well..
> 
> 
> 
> What do u mean ??
> 
> 
> 
> He Has Enough Money . He is from a State with 11% GDP rate.
> and whats wrong to Give Money ?
> Is it Crime in PAK to help ?
> 
> 
> 
> Karkare Got their Himself and Terrorists Didnt came to Kill Him.
> Pal, if there was even a slight hand of BJP or VHP u think Congress will let it away ?
> 
> They Lost..
> The Home Minister
> The CM
> The Deputy CM
> NSA Resigned
> Nas it hasnet Stopped.
> 
> 
> 
> In None of the States terrorism was NOT an issue. It was development.
> 
> 
> 
> Indians and Pakistani are sensible People they Judge the facts.
> You are an exception to see and Judge ?
> 
> *Do they Give Death Sentense all the "Gun" holders in Pak Movies ?*
> 
> 
> *LOL @ INDIA nice Story for Bollywood not for Reality base lollll*



Indians Make Realistic Movies that win Golden Globes NOT one But 4 !
We Know HOW to do it..[/QUOTE]

With all due respect it takes 168 hours to take a boat from Karachi to Mumbai... so what your saying is thay the Indian Navy can catch 1,000's of Pakistan'i fishermen a year and cant catch some boat's with terrorists on em? ive seen Indian Navy react within minutes... once GeoTv (of Pakistan) was doing a live tv on sea near the Indian border and it took Indian Navy 5-10 minutes to come to the Indian sea border... 

I am all against Terrorism and what happened in your country... but they were not Pakistani's our govt has been a puppet of the US and the pressure put on us was far to great... LOL @ us. But the point is... they were not Pakistani's.... for God sake the milk they were carrying way labled "PAK" they is the brand name of a Iranin milk... lol .... also the hand grenades are not Pakistani made do a search and you'll find that out + the AK47's are not the one's made in Pakistan.... do a google and compare your self... also look into the evedince provided by the Indian Govt... and google it... youll laugh your self out when yo seen what true.... Your going to have elevtions soon right  ?


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## afriend

^^^ Still america is searching for OSAMA BIN LADEN....!!! I guess they have never heard about google.!!!


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## afriend

First and foremost your government have accepted that these guys where pakistani's. If that is a lie i cannot believe a truth that you got from googling..!!!! Secondly we only hear about the fishermen captured, but there are 100's who goes scott free..!!! And its nice that you have very high regard of our navy.. but the fact of the matter is they couldn't detect these guys.. and that is a lapse from our navy..!!!! There are other glaring evidences such as satellite phone calls.. ajmal kasab... which is accepted by the world over. I don't know how many times the REAL STORY of mumbai comes up and whther ever this REAL CULPRITS get what they deserve...!!!


----------



## Blueclub

afriend said:


> First and foremost your government have accepted that these guys where pakistani's. If that is a lie i cannot believe a truth that you got from googling..!!!! Secondly we only hear about the fishermen captured, but there are 100's who goes scott free..!!! And its nice that you have very high regard of our navy.. but the fact of the matter is they couldn't detect these guys.. and that is a lapse from our navy..!!!! There are other glaring evidences such as satellite phone calls.. ajmal kasab... which is accepted by the world over. I don't how many times the REAL STORY of mumbai comes up and whther ever this REAL CULPRITS get what they deserve...!!!



Whatever you say... I say they were Indian terrorist  plain and simple truth... and maybe one day truth will reveal it self... You can kep on blaming others...


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## PureLogic

Salahadin said:


> this video is disabled



You know, this shows media is filtered in Pakistan, no matter it is local or international.

GoP always tries hard to do such things so that Pakistani people can be restricted from getting close to the truth. Letting you see only one side is naturally going to make you biased.


----------



## PureLogic

I have gone through the Alex Jones video more than once.

The only conclusion - ALEX JONES IS A BIG BIG FOOL.

Reasons-
1. He talks about about RSS. He is surely not aware of some facts -
a. RSS lacks infrastructure to kill anybody / take part in a riot.
b. There are some Muslims in RSS.
c. RSS stands for Rashtriya Syamsevak Sangh. (Literally meaning 'National Volunteers Organization). They mainly use their network to help people in case of calamities. Also, they run programs in public interest. They have not differentiated between Hindu and Muslim while helping. You can go through reports on 'Tsunami' striking India.
d. There is no 'anti non-Hindu' thought in RSS prayers, literature, public addresses.
e. As far as 'Gandhi issue' is concerned, I advice him to go through one of many books explaining the view of Nathuram Godse behind killing Gandhiji. Book written by Nathuram's brother is also available.

2. He talks about Kashmir. Again -
a. India is not a 'Hindu' state, but a secular one. So there is nothing wrong if GoI rules some area with Muslim majority. There are regions in Kerala and Goa with Christian majority. Does that mean these areas should be handed over to Vatican City?
b. He is simply lying about elections issue. Go through some recent news and you will get the truth. Also, how Pakistan can block elections in the region ruled by GoI?
c. When the hell Indian Special Forces were trained by Israel?

3. He talks about FATA and CIA. It is more likely because of hate for US rather than love for Pakistan.

4. He studies the actions of RAW and he cannot recall the full form of the name of organization. Also, the host seems to make more firm statements than guest. I also have more points, but I think the above are sufficient to support my statement.


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## PureLogic

It is impossible for GoI to refrain Indian media from a news and giving the news to a foreign authority. Why should they do this? From Indian media or foreign media, the news is going to reach the Indians. And the 'whole' Indian media is not easy to control. They cannot resist the temptation for breaking news even if it is harmful for the nation.


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## chirag.s

these *politicians must be stoned to death in public * (even bullets are waste of money ) weather they are involved or not they are no different from terrorists except that they do not wield guns i bet my life once the election heat touches them none of them will be talking about how to prevent terrorists from stiking but they will say they striked when your govt. was in power they do get dirtier than pigs when campaigning starts and claim themselves to be holier than cows 

the *BIGGEST* handicap of democracy = *wealthy politicians*

jai hind


----------



## opinion786

*Mumbai Mystery: American Designs on Pakistan and India​*
*Tariq Saeedi, with Sergi Pyatakov in Moscow and Mark Davidson in Washington*


	Mumbai episode is the latest in a long and nefarious story that started unfolding some 16 months ago in the barren hills of Baluchistan, a sparsely populated province in western Pakistan.

	We have been able to do is just remove the lid on the American designs on Pakistan and India. Equally disturbing is the reality that Central Asia, China and Russia are also in the crosshairs of the United States. What we have found is sheer in scope, mind-boggling and frightening.

	Bonus hit on China and Russia: Mumbai incident has indirectly affected Chinese and Russian interests in the region. Two more successful moves on the chessboard and the Americans would be in a position to block RussiaChina in the greater Central Asian region. and If Balochistan is detached from Pakistan, it would contribute to American ambitions to put a full-stop to expansion of Russian and Chinese economic and political influence in the entire region.


	The USA seems to have decided to:

o	Bifurcate Pakistan using all possible means, including the religious elements that can be bought, coerced or tricked;
o	Pull the plug on the Indian and Pakistani economies by creating a situation of perpetual confrontation;
o	Prevent India from becoming an economic rival of the United States in foreseeable future by denying it the energy resources of Central Asia and Iran, and draining its precious human and material assets in dead-end pursuits;
o	Promote drug addiction in South and Central Asia so that all the opium produced in Afghanistan is consumed in the region and little or none is left for export to the American markets;
o	Block the economic growth and expanding regional influence of China and Russia;
o	Acquire logistics facilities and infrastructure network for military action against Iran;

	We started working on this story in July 2007 on a vague tip that some foreign spies had been caught in the Pakistani province of Balochistan. We traveled to Balochistan and started talking to people who had many interesting things to tell.

	We decided to consult Sasha and Misha, two retired KGB colonels, living in a quieter district of Moscow. Sasha and Misha (not their real names), are retired KGB colonels and top-notch experts on Afghanistan and Pakistan. They were among the architects of the original BLA (Balochistan Liberation Army) during the Russo-Afghan war. They know Balochistan better than anyone else we ever met.

	The Americans are going for a major shift in their policy toward Pakistan and they may also be putting together some big operations, said Sasha.Go look for something unorthodox, added Misha. Unorthodox what, we asked in exasperation. Such as Yankee-Jihadi marriage, said Misha

	There was buzz that a representative of a jihadi outfit recently had a meeting with an American in the Sadabahar area at the edge of Quetta. This was the beginning of August 2007 and the meeting was unusual. We could not identify the American but we managed to trace the jihadi to a splinter group of LeT (Lashkar-e-Taiba). 

	It cannot be an isolated phenomenon. There must be something before and after it. Look for patterns, always look for patterns, said Sasha. Misha said, This money will explode. It will explode in many places. It was early September 2007, and Mishas black prediction was not long in coming true. BB [Benazir Bhutto, former prime minister of Pakistan] returned to Pakistan on 18 October 2007 after nearly eight years of self-imposed exile..


	It is no coincidence that BB decided at this very time to return to Pakistan and hired BKSH to lobby for her in Washington. *She has been chosen as pillion rider to a wayward Musharraf*, interjected Misha.

	First, lets clarify the question of funding by Americans. Financing, arming and training of enemy elements is nothing new in the American policy. The whole Russo-Afghan was fought on funding and training the kind of people who would never be welcome in Washington. However, their being loathsome was not a barrier against their being funded and trained to fight the Russians because, as the Americans are fond of saying, the end justifies the means. If BB is removed from the scene, it would bring several benefits to Washington, *the topmost being swift departure of Musharraf,* replaced by a weak government that would be heavily dependent on Americans for its very survival

	The pattern here is, explained Sasha, that CIA and other American agencies are funding, training and arming MeK [Mujahideen-e-Khalq] in Iraq and Iran to use them against Iran, they are funding and supporting Jundullah in Pakistan and Iran to create trouble in Iran, and now they have co-opted some factions of LeT, possibly some other jihadi outfits also, to do their dirty work in Pakistan. Go chase Vickers, said Misha with the finality that indicated the end of our session with the spymasters.


	Chasing Vickers is easier said than done. Michael Vickers is the assistant secretary of defence responsible for special operations and low intensity warfare. A former Green Beret, he was confirmed as assistant secretary for defence on 23 July 2007. At the height of Afghan operation, he was giving strategic and operational direction to 300 unit commanders, 150000 full time and 500000 part time fighters. He coordinated the efforts of ten countries and oversaw an annual budget of more than US $ 2 billion. In other words, Vickers was the direct challenger of Sasha and Misha in Afghanistan. Special Operations Command (Socom), a part of the portfolio of Vickers, is based in Tampa, Florida. Its annual budget is US $ 8 billion. More than 60000 covert and overt personnel are on its payroll.

	We are impressed already, we said, but what is the connection between American funding of some Pakistani jihadi outfits, the return of BB to Pakistan, and suicide attack on her convoy?


	X said, There is general agreement among all the 16 intelligence agencies of the United States that Pakistan is on the edge, the situation is very bad, very bleak. The latest National Intelligence Estimate describes Pakistan as no money, no energy, no government. He was of the opinion that not only the entire intelligence community but the mainstream Democrats and Republicans, and the Pentagon leadership, had come to the conclusion that nothing was going to go forward without dealing directly with Pakistan.

	BB (Benazir Bhutto) got assassinated on 27 December 2007, when she was leaving Liaquat Bagh in Rawalpindi after addressing a huge rally. 

	It was absolutely shocking news and our first reaction was to kick ourselves in the butt for not going public with our story in November 2007. Would she still be alive had we released the story in November? It is a question that would always keep haunting us.


	It didnt take Sasha and Misha long to identify the weapon. It is a 0.22 high velocity pistol, said Sasha. Standard personal weapon of Mossad agents, added Misha. 

	He added, You keep forgetting what I tell you. Look for patterns. There is certain CIA-Mossad signature that you cannot fail to miss if you are trained to look for it. The nerve gas used to paralyze the pilots of the C-130 carrying Ziaul Haq was made in Israel, but Israelis didnt put the little box in the mango crate, they used the local people. The poisoning of Shahnawaz [younger brother of BB, who died of poisoning in mid 1980s in Cannes] can be connected to CIA-Mossad if someone cares to open the case again, but it was just the maid of Shahnawaz who did the dirty work, not the Israelis or CIA. There is unmistakable similarity in the riots and endless public processions that led to the ouster of Salvadore Allande in Chile and ZAB and Musharraf in Pakistan; in none of these cases you saw CIA or Mossad officers leading the processions and riots. Look for patterns.


	The US military is burning nearly 600000 gallons of fuel per day. More than 80% of this comes from Pakistan, through 700 or so road tankers that are vulnerable to all kinds of attacks on their long journey from facilities in Pakistan to American bases in Afghanistan. Aware of this, the Americans have been trying to create an alternate route through Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. Even if the alternate route is opened fully, it is very long and inefficient and there are risks that Americans are not in a position to counter at present.

	An independent Balochistan will be an ideal territory to keep supply lines open to the US and NATO forces in Afghanistan. Independent Balochistan will provide Americans with excellent locations for putting up their military and naval bases to police the Persian Gulf and make sure that no other naval power including India, China and Russia ever gets upper hand in the Indian Ocean

	Afghanistan produced 6000 tons of opium in 2006, 8200 tons in 2007 and 7700 tons in 2008. On average, the world demand of opium-based narcotics, including heroin, is only half of this production. Where is the rest of opium going? This report gets credence from the fact that about 70% of all opium production in Afghanistan comes from Helmand province, an area under the direct control of the Americans. Narcotics are a traditional source of additional revenues for the American forces, especially the CIA.


*Detailed NCA Investigative Report of 13 pages*: 

Mumbai Mystery: American Designs on Pakistan and India Our leader - Musharraf


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

macintosh said:


> "India likely to face more Mumbai-style attacks"
> 
> May be you were right as two terrorists,one of them belonging to kasab's district, were killed by UP ATS before striking in DELHI.
> 
> Pak just dont learn lesson or govt dont seem to have control over terrorists anymore.



And despite Dawood Ibrahim being India's most wanted man, his network still flourishes in India.

How about you guys control the crime and terrorists in your own country before accusing Pakistan of 'not controlling' criminals and terrorists.


----------



## Flintlock

macintosh said:


> "India likely to face more Mumbai-style attacks"
> 
> May be you were right as two terrorists,one of them belonging to kasab's district, were killed by UP ATS before striking in DELHI.
> 
> Pak just dont learn lesson or govt dont seem to have control over terrorists anymore.



The fact is that in order to take on the non-Taliban jehadis too, they will have to fight a war in all their provinces at once - i.e. civil war. 

Besides, India doesn't have either the political/military leverage or the cash to make the PA do what it is doing in NWFP.


----------



## Energon

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> And despite Dawood Ibrahim being India's most wanted man, his network still flourishes in India.
> 
> How about you guys control the crime and terrorists in your own country before accusing Pakistan of 'not controlling' criminals and terrorists.




Most of the D-gang's virulent operations in Mumbai have already been dismantled. The only presence they have now is in the unorganized sector particularly emanating from the Muslim neighborhoods which are generally left alone for the sake of social stability (Reference: _Look into the works of Suketu Mehta_). They do not however have the ability to *orchestrate mass acts of terrorism from India*.

Furthermore, it would have been a whole lot easier if Dawood wasn't being offered sanctuary outside India from where he remotely operates the remnants of his Indian crime syndicate.


----------



## Contrarian

He also allegedly still operates a successfull smuggling operation from the shores of Mumbai and Gujarat.


----------



## dave007

Most of my Pakistani friends seem to act really bold here. Saying all things like come-on throw it on us we can take it. But the fact is the moment they shut their computer and get on to the streets they are **** SCARED, and the reason is pretty darn apparent. Their goverment has no control over what's happening in their country. They can't stop US strikes, they have a ******* economy, they cant control Taliban and Alqaeda, and their pants go wet when taking action against terrorists cuz you see the were trained by ISI itself.

All in all Pakistan cant do **** about terrorists, cuz the rot in their estabilishment runs too deep. And since their are multi centers of power, the civilian govt is actually worthless, just goes in for filling the criteria of a "popularly elected govt". It can't call the shots. The situation in Pakistan is so bizarre that their own PRESIDENT accused THEIR OWN INTELLEGNCE AGENCY of killing his wife and demanded an intl probe.

So all India can do actually is to warn Pak this time, and the next time anything of this sort happens, go in for surgical strikes. International opinion will always be strongly with India, and would thereby prevent a full fledged war.


----------



## Energon

malaymishra123 said:


> He also allegedly still operates a successfull smuggling operation from the shores of Mumbai and Gujarat.



Yes, albeit the nature of the operation has changed. Prior to the economic liberalization; smuggling was Dawood's biggest business enterprise (primarily gold, electronics and human beings). The economic policy changes in the 90s essentially put him out of business overnight, which is when he moved over to violent crime, which spun off into arms trading at a small scale (considering the acquisition of sophisticated firearms in India was very difficult at the time); extortion and narcotics smuggling whereby he was cashing in on the growing influx of money into Bombay. The trifecta of the above mentioned criminal activities eventually enabled him to provide the logistical support for the blasts. 

Most of these have been shut down due to the obvious reasons. From what I understand Dawood has over the last decade or so made a big name for himself in the arms black market which he sources from western Pakistan, Central Asia and Eastern Europe. He is apparently extremely active in South East Asia as well. There was actually a really great 'India Today' piece on him a couple of years ago which is really worth tracking down.

He is still sending in a lot of guns/small arms into India through coastal smuggling.

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## rubyjackass

Energon said:


> Yes, albeit the nature of the operation has changed. Prior to the economic liberalization; smuggling was Dawood's biggest business enterprise (primarily gold, electronics and human beings). The economic policy changes in the 90s essentially put him out of business overnight, which is when he moved over to violent crime, which spun off into arms trading at a small scale (considering the acquisition of sophisticated firearms in India was very difficult at the time); extortion and narcotics smuggling whereby he was cashing in on the growing influx of money into Bombay. The trifecta of the above mentioned criminal activities eventually enabled him to provide the logistical support for the blasts.
> 
> Most of these have been shut down due to the obvious reasons. From what I understand Dawood has over the last decade or so made a big name for himself in the arms black market which he sources from western Pakistan, Central Asia and Eastern Europe. He is apparently extremely active in South East Asia as well. There was actually a really great 'India Today' piece on him a couple of years ago which is really worth tracking down.
> 
> He is still sending in a lot of guns/small arms into India through coastal smuggling.



Can remember the month of the mag? Plz do try...


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## Salahadin

Thank you mate bezerk.. I love they way zaid Hamid speaks man truly pakistani man with a gut to speak so bluntly and without caring of the consequences


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## Meesna

An interesting article in the context of rise of terrorism in Pakistan;

*Understanding Pakistan&#8217;s response to Mumbai*

More than half-a-century ago, two of Pakistan&#8217;s most eminent judges drew this bleak lesson from a wave of violence that had led the country into the first of its many experiences of martial law: &#8220;As long as we rely upon the hammer when a file is needed and press Islam into service to solve situations it was never intended to solve,&#8221; wrote Justice Muhammad Munir and Justice Mohammad Rustam Kayani, &#8220;frustration and disappointment must dog our steps.&#8221; 

Pakistan&#8217;s establishment didn&#8217;t listen then &#8212; and does not seem to be listening now. Ever since the Lashkar-e-Taiba&#8217;s attack on Mumbai, commentators have been struggling to explain just why Pakistan appears so reluctant to act decisively against the perpetrators. Some have focussed on the Lashkar&#8217;s patronage by the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate; others on the Pakistani military&#8217;s hopes of weakening President Asif Ali Zardari. *All these explanations have merit but miss a critical element: the slow transformation of the Pakistani state itself into an instrument of the jihadist agenda*.

Link: The Hindu : Opinion / Leader Page Articles : Understanding Pakistan&#8217;s response to Mumbai


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## suresh_

Meesna said:


> An interesting article in the context of rise of terrorism in Pakistan;
> 
> *Understanding Pakistans response to Mumbai*
> 
> *All these explanations have merit but miss a critical element: the slow transformation of the Pakistani state itself into an instrument of the jihadist agenda*.
> 
> Link: The Hindu : Opinion / Leader Page Articles : Understanding Pakistans response to Mumbai



this is the biggest worry of US and india. good article.


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## Jihad

suresh_ said:


> this is the biggest worry of US and india. good article.



Ah yes, this has been said for ages now, "Pakistani nukes will fall into the hand of radicals" "Pakistan will become a failed state" "Pakistan will be taken over by jihadist mullahs" etc.

Let me make one thing clear, not in your sorry Indian dreams will Pakistan ever become what you and your nation are longing for so that you can finally, after decades and decades of hatred, point a big finger at Pakistan and "prove" to the world that India had it right from the very moment these two nations were formed.

Your American way of looking at the situation resembles my point about Indians not having much self-esteem and easily being manipulated into believing anything anti-Pakistan that is being thrown against them.


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## ajpirzada

tomorrow our gov is supposed to give a reply to the so called dossier which india gave us. lets see

so far we havent heard anything from GoP. man they are maintainin some secrecy. i guess gilani scared everyone


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## ajpirzada

pakistan was created in the name of islam. therefore these kind of religious movements will keep on happenin. also y does the world freak out when someone talks about jihad. that fatwa didnt say anything wrong. if india attacks pakistan watelse are we supposed to do?? watch geo tv??
also wat if i say calling militants patriotic might have made indians think once again. 

u talk about islam and the world says u r extremist. but if u drink wine have sex everyday and enjoy night clubs, u being a muslim are considered as moderate. WTF


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## Vics

ajpirzada said:


> pakistan was created in the name of islam. therefore these kind of religious movements will keep on happenin. also y does the world freak out when someone talks about jihad. that fatwa didnt say anything wrong. if india attacks pakistan watelse are we supposed to do?? watch geo tv??
> also wat if i say calling militants patriotic might have made indians think once again.
> 
> u talk about islam and the world says u r extremist. but if u drink wine have sex everyday and enjoy night clubs, u being a muslim are considered as moderate. WTF



Why blame Islam for all your problems or make it an excuse. Islam will be known by the acts of people who practice it so it is the duty and the responsibility of all who practice Islam that Islam is viewed as any other Holy religion.

The vices suggested by you are part of the western culture and let be happy doing it we should not judge them at the same time should practice our culture. 

I dont see any contradiction here.

Malaysia is also a modern Muslim state like Pakistan if not more why no one has any problems with Malaysia. Please dont hijack Islam for your personal reasons and bring a bad name to Muslims all over the world


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## Contrarian

I could punch a lot of holes in this guy Zaid Hamid's theory or conjecture about what happened. He seems to be filling in the gaps between concrete facts with his own theories which support his argument. 
But there is always the question of what if, there are loose ends to the Mumbai massacre.

Anyways, glad to see that BJP was beaten in Delhi and Rajasthan., and voted back in MP because of their development track record, not because of communal politics.


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## omairhr

malaymishra123 said:


> I could punch a lot of holes in this guy Zaid Hamid's theory or conjecture about what happened. He seems to be filling in the gaps between concrete facts with his own theories which support his argument.....




Could you punch a couple for me please?


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## dave007

*India boosts arms modernisation after Mumbai* ReutersPublished: January 29, 2009


By Bappa Majumdar

India is speeding a nearly $1 billion (704 million pounds) domestic weapons development programme to modernise its armed forces, the defence research department said on Thursday, following renewed tensions with Pakistan over the attacks in Mumbai.

The plans include inducting 124 main battle tanks for the Indian army by December, the first of a batch of locally-made combat aircraft for the navy also by the end of the year, and unmaned aerial vehicles to boost border surveillance.

"There is a certain push now to complete projects on time and deliver the goods for low intensity battles or to counter bigger security threats in the region," Suranjan Pal, a spokesman of the government-run Defence Research and Development Organisation, said.

Tensions between India and Pakistan mounted after the attacks in Mumbai in November, which New Delhi said were carried out by Pakistani nationals and must have had support from Pakistani state agencies.

Today in Asia & PacificThailand to allow UN access to 66 refugeesCivilians evacuated from Sri Lanka war zoneAfghan officials seek delay in presidential electionsSince the Mumbai attacks, local media has highlighted the many antiquated weapons system that India has, from artillery to tanks, and poor surveillance capabilities.

"India's military capability had been shrinking as modernisation efforts were moving very slowly, but now there is more interest being shown," C. Uday Bhaskar, a strategic affairs expert, said.

The modernisation plans include developing the Agni-5 missile, capable of carrying a nuclear warhead and hitting targets 5,000 km (3,100 miles) away, and torpedoes and planes for the navy.

India is also one of the world's biggest arms importers, but government officials and experts said the priority was to boost indigenous capacity and reduce reliance on foreign suppliers.

"Foreign countries are generally not interested in sharing critical technology with us, so we are pushing more for indigenous development," Pal said.

The DRDO has often been criticised in the past by experts for delays on key projects, including the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) and an Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AWACS).

The naval version of the LCA will enter service in December this year while the air force will get 20 planes next year. The aircraft is a supersonic, all-weather fighter which has been under development for more than two decades.

(Editing by Alistair Scrutton and Sanjeev Miglani)


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## koolio

Mumbai attack plans 'made outside Pakistan'

Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:04:26 GMT
Gunmen stormed multiple locations, including the Taj Mahal Hotel, in Mumbai in November.

A recent Islamabad probe suggests that elements and agencies inside Pakistan were not involved in planning the Mumbai terror attacks.

"An initial probe conducted by a three-member team set up by the Interior Ministry has concluded that the 26/11 attacks were planned outside Pakistan," Dawn News quoted sources as saying on Thursday.

The Pakistani team also stated in its report that "no leads" had been found in Pakistan but did not elaborate on whether the probe had been able to determine where the attacks had been planned.

The British intelligence service MI5, however, had affirmed earlier that it had uncovered links between the terrorists involved in the Mumbai attacks and UK nationals.

"We have looked at individuals' communications, where they have been and so on and found they have got connections with most countries including the UK...," said MI5 Director General Jonathan Evans in early January.

Pakistan's Interior Ministry is expected to review the report on the initial probe on Thursday in a high-level meeting. The ministry will submit a final report to the government by Saturday

On January 5, India provided Pakistan with data from satellite phones used by the attackers as well as what it describes as the "confession of a surviving gunman".

The issue that Pakistan was probing into the issue was made public by Pakistani Interior Ministry Chief Rehman Malik on January 17 when findings from India began to undergo serious examination.

Washington, New Delhi, and London hold Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), a Pakistan-based militant group responsible for the Mumbai attacks - which killed at least 179 people, including the nine militants. Pakistan has rejected the involvement of its government in the attacks, saying that "non-state actors" were involved in the incident.

source Press TV


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## metalfalcon

Indians Wont be happy at all after this "They want to Hear What they Want Hear, They will Not Digest this at all".

Even after British claims as



> The British intelligence service MI5, however, had affirmed earlier that it had uncovered links between the *terrorists involved in the Mumbai attacks and UK nationals*.
> 
> "We have looked at individuals' communications, where they have been and so on and found they have got connections with most countries including the UK...," *said MI5 Director General Jonathan Evans in early January*.



So how can You blame Pakistani Govt, Those UK Nationals Can be of Pakistani Origin but all the Pakistanis are not Responsible for the acts of few.


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## Gokul

Please give me a link to that quote... and I will give you a link to Gordon Brown's quote in a joint press conference with Zardari where he has said that "95&#37; of UK's terror plots have been traced back to Pakistan"...


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## Awesome

Gokul said:


> Please give me a link to that quote... and I will give you a link to Gordon Brown's quote in a joint press conference with Zardari where he has said that "95&#37; of UK's terror plots have been traced back to Pakistan"...


So?

That has nothing to do with non-Pakistanis being planners of the Mumbai attack.


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## suresh_

there you go! back to square one. I guess, pranab has to get talking again and hillary clinton should do some 'condi rice', then when the arm is twisted enough, pak might accept the truth.


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## Gokul

This thread is about Pakistan rejecting India's dossier and that is what we ought to talk about...

my response was to falcon's comments about UK's Intelligence Chief and possible UK responses to the initial media reports that the attackers were British...


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

I am sure there will be more details when the investigation report is made public.


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## Gokul

Yep, am waiting for it too... if initial reports are to be believed, I think it'll be another eyewash at best


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## Omar1984

Mumbai 'not planned in Pakistan' 

A top Pakistani diplomat has said its investigations into the attacks on Mumbai show they were not planned in either Pakistan or the UK. 

Pakistan's high commissioner in Britain, Wajid Shamsul Hasan, told Indian media Islamabad's own report on the attacks would be released soon. 

More than 170 people were killed when 10 gunmen attacked India's financial capital in November. 

India says Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba was to blame. 

India has also suggested what it calls "state elements" were involved. Both Pakistan and Lashkar-e-Taiba have denied any involvement. 

The attacks have put relations between India and Pakistan under severe strain. 

'No whitewash' 

Mr Hasan's comments to India's NDTV channel are thought to be the first official words on what the Pakistani document might contain. 

He said: "Pakistani territory was not used so far as the investigators have made their conclusions. It could have been some other place. Not the UK as well. Because these were the two places I was concerned about." 

When you collect material, then you sort it out, you re-do it and re-read it. That requires time 

Wajid Shamsul Hasan 

India and the international community have put huge pressure on Pakistan to take action against militants based on its soil and to bring the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks to justice. 

Pakistan says that it has arrested dozens of people in a crackdown on groups allegedly linked to Mumbai. It says it has also shut a number of operations run by a charity linked to Lashkar-e-Taiba. 

Mr Hasan added: "We are not going to do any whitewashing business. We believe in going after facts. Our findings will be acceptable to the world. We will try to satisfy India with our findings. We are addressing the concerns of the world not just India." 

He also defended the time it had taken for the report to come out 

"When you collect material, then you sort it out, you re-do it and re-read it. That requires time, so I am sure once they complete it, they will come out with concrete facts that will satisfy the world as to Pakistan's non-involvement in the Mumbai attacks." 

Mr Hasan also criticised India's delay in handing over evidence, suggesting its dossier could be "fabricated". 

"You [India] took 45 days to come up with a sort of evidence although you started blaming Pakistan on the first day". 

The evidence India is said to have handed over includes the interrogation of the surviving gunman, Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab , details of phone conversations between the attackers and weapons information. 

India says all 10 gunmen were from Lashkar-e-Taiba. 

Pakistan has admitted Qasab is a Pakistani citizen. 


BBC NEWS | South Asia | Mumbai 'not planned in Pakistan'


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## third eye

The larger issue is " was it not executed from / by people in Pak ? "


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## Awesome

third eye said:


> The larger issue is " was it not executed from / by people in Pak ? "


only one execution personnel is alive, which is in India's custody. Rest were outside of Pakistan. This officially makes it no longer our business.


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## Gokul

Dude, and India has got hold of Thuraya (sat phone manufacturer) from the UAE and traced back the calls of the sat-phones used by the terrorists... the calls were all to and fro from Pakistan...


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## Skywalker

Gokul said:


> Dude, and India has got hold of Thuraya (sat phone manufacturer) from the UAE and traced back the calls of the sat-phones used by the terrorists... the calls were all to and fro from Pakistan...



Does it prove that elements inside Pakistan were involved. Do you think planners are so stupid to leave everything open and obvious to investigate. Wow it means that whoever planned this sophisticated mission made a major blunder by leaving everything behind. 

Usual BS from the Indian media and a crying Indian...tears coming out of the A$$.


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## Gokul

NO !!!!

One of the calls from the satphone was intercepted and in that the caller has clearly said that 

"Hamse ek galti ho gayi... Ismail GPS aur Satellite Phone ko tabah karna bhool gaye"

This was also intercepted... now tell me...

It was clearly sloppy work by the ill-brained terrorists.... they had to destroy everything... they forgot to do that... and the entire plot unravelled when Ajmal was caught alive...


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## Skywalker

Gokul said:


> NO !!!!
> 
> One of the calls from the satphone was intercepted and in that the caller has clearly said that
> 
> "Hamse ek galti ho gayi... Ismail GPS aur Satellite Phone ko tabah karna bhool gaye"
> 
> This was also intercepted... now tell me...
> 
> It was clearly sloppy work by the ill-brained terrorists.... they had to destroy everything... they forgot to do that... and the entire plot unravelled when Ajmal was caught alive...



Kindly provide me the limks of your claims.


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## Gokul

Why do you need links ??? Its on the dossier... and the dossier has long since leaked !!!


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## low radiation

Skywalker said:


> Does it prove that elements inside Pakistan were involved. Do you think planners are so stupid to leave everything open and obvious to investigate. Wow it means that whoever planned this sophisticated mission made a major blunder by leaving everything behind.
> 
> Usual BS from the Indian media and a crying Indian...tears coming out of the A$$.


No need to hide behind flag after the stroke of patriotism..
Why you are pressuming that terrorists are very intelligent people..Do you know them..Luckily there are enough of evidences.So first thing is to examine whether they are valied or not..So far through kasab whatever coming out is proven to be truth..
Tears will come from a$$ if terrorists sparred from their gruesome act..then you wont get sympathy from anybody if same terrorists blow some in your capital...

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## ajpirzada

its still too early to talk about wat pak has to say. what we are hearing are only the leaks. they must have something with them to prove their claim. lets wait for the report


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## Vics

Skywalker said:


> Does it prove that elements inside Pakistan were involved. Do you think planners are so stupid to leave everything open and obvious to investigate. Wow it means that whoever planned this sophisticated mission made a major blunder by leaving everything behind.
> 
> Usual BS from the Indian media and a crying Indian...tears coming out of the A$$.



See you can only wake up guys who are sleeping...

It is not possible to wake up guys who act as if they are sleeping.

No one is expecting much from your side from non state actors you have moved to outside state. Wait till these guys also become a pain like Taliban then you will blame your authorities like you do today on account of Taliban. Some people learn fast from past mistakes some take lot of time unfortunately you fall in the latter category.


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## third eye

Asim Aquil said:


> only one execution personnel is alive, which is in India's custody. Rest were outside of Pakistan. This officially makes it no longer our business.



Your reply is not surprising.

However, if Pak nationals who live in Pak are involved ( as reluctantly admitted by the Pak PM ) whose business would it be .. Iceland ?


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## SurvivoR

suresh_ said:


> there you go! back to square one. I guess, pranab has to get talking again and hillary clinton should do some 'condi rice', then when the arm is twisted enough, pak might accept the truth.




Parnab has many gears in his tongue. One day he says something and the very next he backs off. So who can believe paranoid Parnab.


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## SurvivoR

Gokul said:


> Dude, and India has got hold of Thuraya (sat phone manufacturer) from the UAE and traced back the calls of the sat-phones used by the terrorists... the calls were all to and fro from Pakistan...



Give me a break. India also got hold of broom the attackers were carrying and detergent powered as if they were on a picnic


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## suresh_

SurvivoR said:


> Parnab has many gears in his tongue. One day he says something and the very next he backs off. So who can believe paranoid Parnab.



not really, from the begining, he stuck to his stand 
that terrorists are PAKISTANIS. 
that india has EVIDENCE against them.
that pakistan must DISMANTLE terror networks in its territory.
that masterminds must be EXTRADITED.
that to achieve above objectives ALL OPTIONS are open.

is he not reasonable?

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## Gokul

> Give me a break. India also got hold of broom the attackers were carrying and detergent powered as if they were on a picnic



Shows your unadulterated arrogance... that you don't even want to look at proof when it is shown !!!! Well, if you continue like this, I'm sure US will cut off aid to you, and your good friend China will be the only one left to support you....

But, don't be under the false impression that the Chinese will shower you with money the way the Americans did. The Chinese are in it FOR THE MONEY. They know that apart from them, the US and France, hardly any other country sells jets to you. They want to make hay while the sun shines. 

They are in it because you want to buy weapons and the aid money is not theirs in the first place.

Let's see how China reacts when you ask them for aid money and then use the same aid money to buy weapons from them !!! hahahaha.... that would be a sight worth beholding...

It's like a child borrowing money from his father and then trying to force his father to sell him his own car with that money.... hahahahaha....


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## SurvivoR

suresh_ said:


> not really, from the begining, he stuck to his stand
> that terrorists are PAKISTANIS.
> that india has EVIDENCE against them.
> that pakistan must DISMANTLE terror networks in its territory.
> that masterminds must be EXTRADITED.
> that to achieve above objectives ALL OPTIONS are open.
> 
> is he not reasonable?



Parroting Parroting Parroting 

For being reasonable one needs some proofs other than parroting.


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## Gokul

> Parroting Parroting Parroting
> 
> For being reasonable one needs some proofs other than parroting.



Get a hold of the Dossier and read it parrot-face.... do you want links from where you can download the entire dossier... It contains names, IMEI numbers, the Satphones, the GPS, details, mobile phone intercepts... the works... also IP addresses traced back to Pakistan...

You want the link ???


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## SurvivoR

Gokul said:


> Shows your unadulterated arrogance... that you don't even want to look at proof when it is shown !!!! Well, if you continue like this, I'm sure US will cut off aid to you, and your good friend China will be the only one left to support you....
> 
> But, don't be under the false impression that the Chinese will shower you with money the way the Americans did. The Chinese are in it FOR THE MONEY. They know that apart from them, the US and France, hardly any other country sells jets to you. They want to make hay while the sun shines.
> 
> They are in it because you want to buy weapons and the aid money is not theirs in the first place.
> 
> Let's see how China reacts when you ask them for aid money and then use the same aid money to buy weapons from them !!! hahahaha.... that would be a sight worth beholding...
> 
> It's like a child borrowing money from his father and then trying to force his father to sell him his own car with that money.... hahahahaha....



 Your comments are neither logical nor on topic.

You need to think before you speak so that you should know is the topic you are speaking about.

Your comments are miles and miles away from the topic at hands.


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## Gokul

I don't need your inputs on whether the comments are on topic or off-topic...

The moderators of this community like Agnostic, for whom I have great respect will caution me when my posts are off topic like he did earlier today...

I don't need to be taught that by an imbecile...

*And, by the way, you haven't replied to me, do you want the link from where to download the whole 69 page Indian dossier ???*


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## SurvivoR

Gokul said:


> Get a hold of the Dossier and read it parrot-face.... do you want links from where you can download the entire dossier... It contains names, IMEI numbers, the Satphones, the GPS, details, mobile phone intercepts... the works... also IP addresses traced back to Pakistan...
> 
> You want the link ???



Refrain from personal attacks.

I did read your fiction based dossier that is why i said *your dossier mentioned that India recovered a broom and also detergent powder name &#8220;PAK&#8221; made in Pakistan from the attackers. And oh I forgot the match box made in Pakistan. If that is your proof than the world can only laugh at you.*


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## suresh_

SurvivoR said:


> Your comments are neither logical nor on topic.
> 
> You need to think before you speak so that you should know is the topic you are speaking about.
> 
> Your comments are miles and miles away from the topic at hands.



you need to come up with some thing more credible and logical to counter his arguements. all you do is express your personal opinions that have no logic or relevance.

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## Gokul

And, trust me, only less than 15 pages of the dossier is about the daily use items that the self-styled defence analyst talks about...

Do you want it ???


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## Patriot

> In a government of law, the existence of the government will be imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for the law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy.
> Justice Louis Brandeis


December 05, 2008 "Information Clearinghouse" --- Is Pakistan responsible for the Mumbai attack in India? No.

Is Indias repression of its Muslim minority responsible? No.

Is the United States government responsible? Yes.

The attack on Mumbai required radicalized Muslims. Radicalized Muslims resulted from the US overthrowing the elected government in Iran and imposed the Shah; from the US stationing troops in Saudi Arabia; from the US invading and attempting to occupy Afghanistan and Iraq, bombing weddings, funerals, and childrens soccer games; from the US violating international and US law by torturing its Muslim victims; from the US enlisting Pakistan in its war against the Taliban; from the US violating Pakistans sovereignty by conducting military operations on Pakistani territory, killing Pakistani civilians; from the US government supporting a half century of Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their lands, towns and villages; from the assault of American culture on Muslim values; from the US purchasing the government of Egypt to act as its puppet; from US arrogance that America is the supreme arbiter of morality.

As Justice Brandeis said, crime is contagious. Government teaches by example, and Americas example is lawlessness. Americas brutal crimes against the Muslim world have invited every Muslim to become a law unto himself--a revolutionary. It is not terror that Washington confronts but revolution.

By illegal, uncivilized and undiplomatic behavior, the US has stirred Muslim peoples from their long slumber as serfs of Western colonial powers. Some Muslims have had all that they can take, and their fury drives them to rouse a billion of their fellows to throw off the yoke of foreign hegemony.

The arrogant incompetence of American governments brought this conflict to the American people and inflicted it upon the world. By destabilizing Pakistan, the US lost a puppet and created an opportunity for Muslim revolutionaries to exploit. By enraging India against Pakistan, the Mumbai attack has created new problems for Pakistan that will focus that governments attention away from combating Taliban sanctuaries on Pakistans border with Afghanistan. If the US picks up the slack, it will have invaded yet another country and become trapped in a larger quagmire.

Having fomented terrorism, the American government now pretends to be the innocent victim, just as Israelis, having brought about terrorism by driving Palestinians from their homes and villages, pretend to be innocent victims.

Today European members of NATO, an outdated organization formed to defend Western Europe against Soviet invasion, are sacrificing the lives of their soldiers fighting the American Empires war in Afghanistan. If America continues to have its way, Europeans will soon be dying in Ukraine, Georgia, and Iran.

The American government, which preaches freedom and democracy has in the 21st century gone to great extremes to stamp out the US Constitution and the civil liberties that it guarantees. The US government has repudiated the Geneva Conventions and the prohibitions in US statutory law against torture. The US government has set aside habeas corpus, the ancient legal principle guaranteed by the US Constitution that prohibits governments from holding people in prisons without presenting charges. The US government has broken the laws of other nations by kidnapping foreign citizens and transporting them to other lands to be tortured.

These massive crimes have been justified in the name of the war on terror. In truth, Americas crimes foment revolution.

It was the US government that created the war on terror, which has been used to murder and dispossess millions of Iraqis and Afghans, to imprison US citizens as if they were medieval serfs, and to squander three trillion dollars for the sole purpose of enriching Halliburton and the military-security complex.

Investigative journalist John Pilger has shown that the so-called moral superiority of the West is a hoax designed to shield from view the self-seeking Wests crimes against humanity.

Obama promised change from this destructive behavior, but how does change arise when the most arrogant woman on earth is appointed Secretary of State and the rest of the new government is staffed with tried and true Likudniks and servants of the militar-security complex?

The change over which Obama will preside will have no American victories. The change will come from America as a failed state, from the dollar dethroned as reserve currency, from America repudiated by its allies and paid puppets, from massive unemployment for which there is no solution, from hyperinflation that produces anarchy.

The day might arrive when Washington is faced with revolution at home as well as abroad.
-
   Washington Arrogance has Fomented a Muslim Revolution           : Information Clearing House - ICH


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## Patriot

sharan said:


> Mumbai Mystery: American Designs on Pakistan and India  Part Four
> 
> Mumbai Mystery: American Designs on Pakistan and India ? Part Four


That author looks like Zaid Hamid to be me..consipiracy theories.Anyway, i'd appreciate if you create separate thread for this.
Thanks


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## Patriot

Dude What?Why are you posting all the crap in this thread?Create separate thread?


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## Energon

As per the New York Times article, this comment made by the Pakistani high commissioner to the UK Wajid Shamsul Hasan was not corroborated by the Pakistani PM Yousef Gilani who said the following in response to Hasan's comments:



PM Yousef Gilani said:


> Hasan had spoken too soon and that his government was not ready to comment on the dossier... the evidence was *still being *investigated by Pakistan's Interior Ministry and *even he did not have details of that probe yet*.




The Pakistani government seems to be dead set upon digging its own grave in regards to this matter, starting with the comical yet reprehensible attempts to obfuscate the surviving terrorist's identity after it had already been clearly established. There really isn't much to hide at this point. Numerous other intelligence agencies have already gathered information and are now merely waiting to see if the GoP admits it. Any more acts of deflection and subversion on the part of the GoP will only result in further damage to an already beleaguered Pakistan.


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## Gokul

Right said champ...


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## hasang20

Gokul said:


> Right said champ...



its not a chatroom please stop posting unicorns to increase your post.


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## SurvivoR

Where is that surviving gunman ? Why India failed to bring him on media to speak? Or is it that India is still working on his accent ?


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## hasang20

SurvivoR said:


> Where is that surviving gunman ? Why India failed to bring him on media to speak? Or is it that India is still working on his accent ?



they are trying to teach him fluent Urdu and teaching about how Allah said on Quran about Jihad.


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## Skywalker

Same old BS as usuall from Indians...even in this forum look at the troll all Indians are back supporting each other on the information not the evidence GOP recieved so back back off untill you give firm evidence or in other words concrete evidence and dont trey to hijack this thread with your usual Indian BS.


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## SurvivoR

Skywalker said:


> Same old BS as usuall from Indians...even in this forum look at the troll all Indians are back supporting each other on the information not the evidence GOP recieved so back back off untill you give firm evidence or in other words concrete evidence and dont trey to hijack this thread with your usual Indian BS.



No they have concrete evidence in form of a broom, detergent powder called "PAK" which is also shown in Indian dossier and on Indian newspaper websites. Touchme shaving creame, matchbox, mountain dew  

Isnt it concrete evidence.


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## Gokul

Why don't you mind your own business and not post rebuttals to me just because YOU WANT TO INCREASE YOUR POST COUNT !!!!

If you have something intelligent to say, we welcome your inputs, or if you want to support your fellow Pakistanis, you're welcome to post....

But, as in this case, you have nothing intelligent, and are just posting for the heck of it, just shut up !!!!


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## Skywalker

low radiation said:


> No need to hide behind flag after the stroke of patriotism..
> Why you are pressuming that terrorists are very intelligent people..Do you know them..Luckily there are enough of evidences.So first thing is to examine whether they are valied or not..So far through kasab whatever coming out is proven to be truth..
> Tears will come from a$$ if terrorists sparred from their gruesome act..then you wont get sympathy from anybody if same terrorists blow some in your capital...



First of all you have no right to question about my patriotism..I am a Pakistani and woulkd remain as a Pakistani no matter where ever I live. Yes terrorist were as dumbo as you are or maybe as your intelligence agencies are whose prime objective is only to kill Pakistanies in fake encounters.

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## Skywalker

Gokul said:


> Why don't you mind your own business and not post rebuttals to me just because YOU WANT TO INCREASE YOUR POST COUNT !!!!
> 
> If you have something intelligent to say, we welcome your inputs, or if you want to support your fellow Pakistanis, you're welcome to post....
> 
> But, as in this case, you have nothing intelligent, and are just posting for the heck of it, just shut up !!!!



If this addressed to me then you better keep your mouth shut and I am talking about both of your mouths...and be carefull next time before bashing me on anything.


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## Gokul

> Where is that surviving gunman ? Why India failed to bring him on media to speak? Or is it that India is still working on his accent ?



We have no necessity to do that... we are a civil society and have no necessity to make such sweeping gestures...

Why don't you concentrate on the dossier and then when you are processing evidence, we will give you access to Ajmal Kasav... till then, atleast do the groundwork...



> No they have concrete evidence in form of a broom, detergent powder called "PAK" which is also shown in Indian dossier and on Indian newspaper websites. Touchme shaving creame, matchbox, mountain dew



The evidence dossier is comprehensive and I have also offered to share it with you... if you don't want to download it, its your problem... not mine... you just have a closed mind and think that the dossier is full of that... I tell you, only 12 pages of the 69 are the detergent et al... the other stuff is phone intercepts, IMEI numbers, phone numbers, Thuraya satphone and GPS details... you want it ??? tell me, I will give you the link

Else, shut up !!!


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## Gokul

@Skywalker

It was addressed to Hasang


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## hasang20

Gokul said:


> @Skywalker
> 
> It was addressed to Hasang



again stop making your post count


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## Jihad

Ok ladies, can we get back to the healthy discussions?


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## Skywalker

Gokul said:


> @Skywalker
> 
> It was addressed to Hasang



No prob..I take my words back .


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## suresh_

*Where is that surviving gunman ? Why India failed to bring him on media to speak? Or is it that India is still working on his accent ?
*
he is in anda jail and he has been interrogated by indian investigative agencies as well as FBI. both were satisfied and corroborated indian claims. 
do you expect TERRORISTS to be brought before MEDIA?!!

*they are trying to teach him fluent Urdu and teaching about how Allah said on Quran about Jihad.*

actually, he is a punjabi and speaks in it. dont know about urdu. he believes that lakhavi is allah's voice on earth.


*No they have concrete evidence in form of a broom, detergent powder called "PAK" which is also shown in Indian dossier and on Indian newspaper websites. Touchme shaving creame, matchbox, mountain dew

Isnt it concrete evidence.*

yes that and much more, like sat phone details, voice recordings of exact conversations between the masterminds and the perpetrators. these calls were to and from KARACHI. email that was sent to indian agencies, was also from karachi. there are GPS details about sea route from karachi to mumbai.

all this apart from the statements of kasab, the terrorist himself.

now, plz dont question the nationality/existance of kasab, since kasab has been owned by his father. a report of pakistani media. nawaz shariff came on TV to accept this fact.

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## jeypore

Skywalker said:


> Same old BS as usuall from Indians...even in this forum look at the troll all Indians are back supporting each other on the information not the evidence GOP recieved so back back off untill you give firm evidence or in other words concrete evidence and dont trey to hijack this thread with your usual Indian BS.



Maybe it is all BS!!! But one thing is true atleast in Pakistan perspective. Why is there so much confusion amongst the politicians. If one person blurs out a statement, the very next day it is retracted by either Zandari or Gilani. It is very clear that the military complex is pulling the strings on these individuals.

And other surprising things that I am pondering upon is, What difference will it make if the terrorist are pakistanies or not? Is it so that the ISI or military is embeded with these terrorist orgainzation or willingness to dismatle all the terrorist activities that are in Pakistanie soil. Or it is all regarding Kashmire.

I personally believe Pakistan military complex believes that the taliban should be kept for future safety. There paranoia is based on what India will do in Afganistan and to protect it's interests lies in the talibans. All in all it is evident that future wars or conflicts with Pakistan will be all proxy wars and I hope India takes the correct steps to counter anythings that is put out there.

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## Gokul

> again stop making your post count



Who the hell is trying to make it count for themselves again, as if trying to correct me ??? If I am to be corrected, its the moderators' job, if you have something intelligent to say Hasang, say it, else shut up !!!

And, if you hadn't noticed I'd said "@Skywalker" before I said what I had to say, it means it was for HIM not for YOU... So, stay out...


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## SurvivoR

Gokul said:


> We have no necessity to do that... we are a civil society and have no necessity to make such sweeping gestures...
> 
> Why don't you concentrate on the dossier and then when you are processing evidence, we will give you access to Ajmal Kasav... till then, atleast do the groundwork...
> 
> 
> 
> The evidence dossier is comprehensive and I have also offered to share it with you... if you don't want to download it, its your problem... not mine... you just have a closed mind and think that the dossier is full of that... I tell you, only 12 pages of the 69 are the detergent et al...
> 
> the other stuff is phone intercepts, IMEI numbers, phone numbers, Thuraya satphone and GPS details... you want it ??? tell me, I will give you the link.



The dossier is full of usual Indian crap and BS. One should not waste time on that crap after reading that Indians have recoverd detergent powder from the attackers and also shaving creame 

I think Indins wanted to fill up the pages so go 69 wow.





Gokul said:


> Else, shut up !!!






I think you do not understand some civilized language. Or i think you are in some kind of paranoid situation.

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## Gokul

Okay, keep your eyes closed, Not my Problem... *I will not respond to Hasang20 and SurivoR on this thread hereafter....*


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## was

it seems like indians can,t accept that these attacks were not prepared in pakistan they absoloutely want to blame every thing on neibhours.

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## suresh_

was said:


> it seems like indians can,t accept that these attacks were not prepared in pakistan they absoloutely want to blame every thing on neibhours.



just for info, india has caught local supporters as well. the person who had done the survey of taj, oberoi and jewish center to help terrorists has been caught. he is from UP. his other links are also being caught. just that media not giving attention to that.

so, india is not just blaming you guys. there is a lot of overhaul going on in indian internal security system. so that next time such events can be prevented.

but that doesnt make pak innocent. so, GOI is dealing with pak in cohesion with US and other international allies including UK, russia, EU.
also using UN platform. I can only say that GOI is genuinely upset and very serious about this attack and pak's role in it. this is a fact, like it or not.


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## was

suresh_ said:


> just for info, india has caught local supporters as well. the person who had done the survey of taj, oberoi and jewish center to help terrorists has been caught. he is from UP. his other links are also being caught. just that media not giving attention to that.
> 
> so, india is not just blaming you guys. there is a lot of overhaul going on in indian internal security system. so that next time such events can be prevented.
> 
> but that doesnt make pak innocent. so, GOI is dealing with pak in cohesion with US and other international allies including UK, russia, EU.
> also using UN platform. I can only say that GOI is genuinely upset and very serious about this attack and pak's role in it. this is a fact, like it or not.



GOI should learn not to bark without evidence,like miliband and us ambassador to india sayed when your pm tryed to blame isi.this is the fact like it or not i,m not going to argue with you.

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## Pk_Thunder

*Diplomat denies Mumbai attacks planned in Pakistan*​

Friday, 30 Jan, 2009 | 07:36 PM PST |
NEW DELHI: A Pakistani investigation into the Mumbai attacks has shown they were not planned in Pakistan, the country's high commissioner to Britain told an Indian television news channel on Friday.
Nuclear-armed India and Pakistan have exchanged heated rhetoric since the Mumbai attacks that killed 179 people in November.
India says they were carried out by Pakistani militants who must have had support from Pakistani state agencies.
Pakistan denies that and says it will cooperate with Indian authorities.
Pakistani territory was not used so far as the investigators have made their conclusions, Wajid Shamsul Hassan, Pakistan's high commissioner in Britain, told India's NDTV channel in an interview on Friday.
It was the first time a top Pakistani official had commented in any detail about a dossier of evidence that India handed to Pakistan early this month. Pakistan said the dossier contained information, not evidence.
India says it has Mohammad Ajmal Kasab, the lone surviving member of the 10-man group which attacked several Mumbai landmarks. India says the men were all from Pakistan.
But in what could be an argument Pakistan might make in its report, Hassan said Kasab's nationality did not necessarily prove the hand of Pakistan in the attacks.
He does come from Pakistan, that doesn't mean that Pakistan has sponsored whatever he carried out in Bombay that day, Hassan told Indian TV channel CNN-IBN.
We are waiting for the report to be finalised and once the report comes it will make everything crystal clear. We do not think that evidence is credible.
Pakistani Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani, who is in Davos, Switzerland, said the investigation was still going on and its findings would be released very soon.
Whatever the dossier, whatever the information ... we are probing into it, he said in comments to an Indian television channel aired by a Pakistan television network.
Asked about Hassan's remarks, Gilani said only the Ministry of Interior was authorised to comment on the investigation.
Gilani repeated a Pakistani pledge that it would not allow terrorists to operate from its territory and anyone found guilty of involvement in the Mumbai attack would be brought to justice.
An Indian foreign ministry spokesman in New Delhi said India had no word from Pakistan about the investigation and he had no idea when it would come.
Hassan said Pakistan hoped other countries would accept the findings.
We are not doing any whitewashing business. We believe in going about facts. Our findings will be acceptable, he said.
They categorically informed me that (the) UK was not involved. Pakistan was not involved. Its territories were not used for planning this operation, Hassan said


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## suresh_

was said:


> GOI should learn not to bark without evidence,like miliband and us ambassador to india sayed when your pm tryed to blame isi.this is the fact like it or not i,m not going to argue with you.



the barking of GOI has got GOP to start acting on militant setups with in your country like LET and JuD. as for blaming ISI is concerned, our august PM in his royal highness was merely expressing his suspicions. that cant be held against him, provided the track record of ISI.


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## dave007

Well I was actually expecting this from Pakistan, from the moment they said "we are goin t invstigate". They accused their much loved ISI over Benazir's killing, demanded a UN probe cuz they didn't have "faith" in their country. 

Now, they expect INDIA, to agree to their findings. I, myself dont, GOI will go berserk over it.HAHA.

Pak just landing itself in a bigger P-HOLE.


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## BATMAN

saadahmed said:


> That author looks like Zaid Hamid to be me..consipiracy theories.Anyway, i'd appreciate if you create separate thread for this.
> Thanks



Zaid Hamidsounds reasonable to me, when he argues he talk with references.

Any how here is detailed research work of Mumbai drama:

Mumbai: Dance of the Devil

Enjoy..


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## Omar1984

Updated at: 2050 PST, Monday, February 02, 2009




MULTAN: Foreign Minister Makhdoom Shah Mehmood Qureshi said on Monday that Pakistan wants peace in the region and it would like to further consolidate its ties with neighbours particularly India.

Addressing a seminar at Bahauddin Zakariya University here, Qureshi said that Pakistan wants to consolidate its relations with India. The foreign minister said that despite spending billions of dollars in Afghanistan, the country still remains in the grip of violence and terrorism.

Qureshi said even the US-led forces are forced to change their policies in Afghanistan and now talking of resolving issues through negotiations.

India tried to detach Pakistan following the 26/11 Mumbai attacks, Qureshi said, but added that that governments top priority at that time was to safeguard the country from being isolated in the world.

He further said that the most important task after the Mumbai attack was to avert the threat of war. So far, we have been successful in this connection, he said.

http://www.geo.tv/2-2-2009/34185.htm


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## Energon

Where in the article does it quote him saying that this was an "Indian _*plot*_ to isolate Pakistan"?

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## Jihad

Energon said:


> Where in the article does it quote him saying that this was an "Indian _*plot*_ to isolate Pakistan"?



I find it hard to believe that perhaps aliens from Mars plotted these attacks?


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## rubyjackass

Pak's FM is the most sane man in Pakistan's leadership IMO. And the only one who conducts himself as a statesman. I did not believe he could say such a thing after I saw the title of the thread. And yeah he did not...
He did not even use the word 'plot'.
Inshallah he stays in power and preserve the sanity there...

This thread should have been renamed by now. Mods??!!


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## bushwhacker91

Its an irresponsible comment, its only going to escalate tention nothing else.


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## macintosh

The thread title has nothing to do with what FM said.So the thread title should be changed.


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## Energon

bushwhacker91 said:


> Its an irresponsible comment, its only going to escalate tention nothing else.


Please read the article and point out to exactly where he says the phrase as listed in the title.


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## jeypore

The title does not go with the article, nevertheless the interesting point is this:



> India tried to detach Pakistan following the 26/11 Mumbai attacks, Qureshi said, but added that that government&#8217;s top priority at that time was to safeguard the country from being isolated in the world.



To me this statement represents that the political offense done by India is working and creeping in to GOP. The isolation of GOP would be drastic, since the help it needs at this moment would start to dwindal, and would drastically affect the country.


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## acer

Lahore, Feb 3: The Pakistan Government is planning to prosecute 125 persons, who might be involved in November 26 Mumbai attacks.
The group, which includes anyone who made any suspicious contacts inside India as the attacks began, would be charged under Pakistans cyber crimes laws because suspects used Internet phones to communicate, ABC News quoted an unidentified intelligence official as saying.
But few, if any, of the major leaders India is asking Pakistan to prosecute are included on this list, he was quoted as saying.
The report reflected the delicate balance Pakistan was trying to achieve: Appeasing international pressure to crack down on militants who have operated from its soil, and at the same time not completely dismantling groups that the intelligence agencies still see as assets.
India has blamed Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jamaat-ud-Dawah for planning the attacks.
ABC News said despite promises of a crackdown on militants, the government had still not indicated any plans to prosecute anyone related to the November attacks, as it was required to by a United Nations Security Council resolution passed in early December. 
We assure India if somebody is found guilty, well proceed according to our own laws of Pakistan, Prime Minsiter Yousuf Raza Gilani had said on Sunday.
Asked if plans to prosecute were evidence of Pakistani leaders suspecting the Obama Administration would be tougher on them than the Bush administration was, ABC News quoted an Administration official as saying, I see this as evidence that Pakistan recognises these extremists threaten Pakistan as well as the US.
We need an alliance against the extremists, and I believe that is what you will see us work to build.
The 125 men who were arrested around the country following the attacks, will appear in a court as early as tomorrow, ABC News quoted the Interior Ministry as saying.

Pak may prosecute Mumbai suspects, Kashmir news Kashmir Discussion Forum, Kashmir Tour, Srinagar,Book hotel in Kashmir, Kashmir Bazaar, kashmir SMS, All about kashmir, Kashmir Gifts, Kashmir Websites, Great Kashmiris, kashmir travel forum, forum post


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## metalfalcon

Now the Ball is in Indian Court and if *India* Fails to Provide Solid Evidence that can be presented in front of a Judge in Pakistan..... *I fear all those accused will be set free.*

*India now has to trust Pakistan and Provide all the evidences to Pakistan so that all the Persons who are really Guilty can be Punished. 
*
_*Pakistan will Provide all the details of the tribunal proceedings to India and India must Co-operate with Pakistan now. *_


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## asq

Metalfalcon. What makes u think that India will cooperate with Pakistan now, they have never done this before why would they do it now, they like to see Pakistan from the eyes of a adversary and bully and with a superiority complex.

In any Indian site that I visit i see indian talking BS, Lies and bnonsense about Pakistan. Just see one of the site and you will see real India and its attitude toward Pakistan.

Islam Watch - Islam under scrutiny by ex-Muslims-Truth about Islam (Muhammad Koran Quran Sunnah Hadith Bukhari Islamic History Conquest Atrocity Science-Medicine Slavery Women Sex in Islam Caliphs Omar Abu Bak&#39;r Ali Osman al-Rashid al-Mamun Khali


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## Solomon2

Even if they are successfully prosecuted in Pakistan, won't they be hailed as heroes for killing Indians, Westerners, and Israelis?


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## mhacsan

Solomon2 said:


> Even if they are successfully prosecuted in Pakistan, won't they be hailed as heroes for killing Indians, Westerners, and Israelis?



What you talking abt mate, Heros for killing Indians, Westerners and Israelis , 

this is the problem with yo guys in west that u think muslims and pakistan in particular are extrmist, fundamentalist and love to kill innocent people and will be hailed heros across the muslim world. let me assure u sir, there is complete consensus that whatever happened in Mumbai was an atrocity, a mass murder of innocent human beings, irrespective of their religon, ethinicty, origon and nationality, and whoever has done it must be brought to severe punishment . and we stand with indians on this matter.

but the question is the reaction of indian goverement had after these attacks n to emotionalise their general public to meet their own objectives A) such as just recently indians have cut the river water to push Pakistan further in crisis as it has overwhelming Energy, and economy crisis. b) help declaring pakistan a failed and terriost state and cut them off the Aid they are receivng from international community to demolish the economy- c) to deprive Pakistan of nuclear assests so it become an easy and soft target for India or any other country, bearing in mind presently India can not and will not go into the war as we are also Atomic power.  D) Declaire ISI an terroist organisation which is already under pressure from west regarding allegation of support to Tailiban.

just read thorugh the whole incident of mumbai, gather info, analyse them and and laying logic conclusion will tell u that their is definately an element of skepticism about this whole incident.

Lastly let me assure u, u (People, and Media in the west) will never think of Indian fundamentalist groups, such as Bnngrang dali, PJP etc or exterimist act taken by the indian goverment like cutting of water to pakistan to make people unemployed, to let poverty flourish, people dying of hunger-no crops/ civil war- dream of India and encouraging hatred for pakistan in Indian general public and in the west can also be an inside job by the goverment of India or their inteligence agencies to justify these coward acts . they are throwing dust into the world eyes and you are falling victim to it.

if pakistan goes down economicly, then this would be the worst case scenario for the whole world, no need to explain the reasons, so u better render ur support for pakistan. only these terriost-who have no nationality- who knows who they are as Indian goverment has shown/share no prove/evdiences with pakikstan, let alone the world and we dont care if there are crafted evidences shown to US, its nothing to do with us.
Long Live


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## Solomon2

> if pakistan goes down economicly, then this would be the worst case scenario for the whole world, no need to explain the reasons, so u better render ur support for pakistan.



Don't you get it? What the world hears is, "If Pakistan gets into trouble, maybe it's nukes will fall on you, so you had better pay up." Pakistan has slipped so far in credibility that all the world sees is attempts at extortion. Thus, the number of people who would _welcome _an Indian attack upon Pakistan increases. It will take time and effort - not just PR - on Pakistan's part to change this impression.


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## Patriot

snipped.........


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## Solomon2

saadahmed, how does your comment help Pakistan?


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## srijeesh

btw, guys who is pak gonna prosecute? if reports on this forum are to be believed then the FIA submitted a investigation report that 'mumbai' was planned outside pak, the cultprits are bangladeshi, so, who are you gonna prosecute?

I agree with solomon, such contradicting and confusing reports from pakistan have brought down that country's credibility. today, the average person outside pak, sees pak as a country supporting terrorism. it is upto pak, to clear that image.


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## mhacsan

Solomon2 said:


> It will take time and effort - not just PR - on Pakistan's part to change this impression.



How much time and effort we are talking about here, lets take time first

It has been eight year since 9/11, So called Alqaida and Taliban has doubled in numbers, and now challenges the rit of Pakistan goverment far inside its territory let alone the tribal areas. pakistan has been in war with Taliban and Alqaida since 2003. and Nato forces have been in Afghanistan since the war against terror started. so if you put these details on histogramph charts the trend of terrosists with the time line are increasing rather than the other way around, so what time line are we talking about? which makes me think u r not aware of ground realities. conclusion there has to be no time line but solution with talks rather than weapons as there has been no solutions in the history of the world with the use of power, Scotland, ireland etc

Effort:
how much effort u want us to put in, 80,000 trops along the border with our limited resources, which has suffered 1566 casaulities excluding permanent injuries. 889 civilians people died in 61 suicide attacks on Pakistan, think about the families of these victims, and there is no welfare system in pakistan to look after the people who have no means of income. foreign invesmtent has dried up, neither tourists nor any international team is willing to visit pakistan, FDI has dropped significalty and on top of that Drone attacks on civilians in tribal area which further escalates the problem. and yet we see them silently, list goes on.
It is us who are at the receivng end from every angle and yet asked to do more. my people has suffered the most in the world not US. there was peace before war now things are as bad as they can get but they will improve given the right leader and policies
Dont tell me that we had support of $10 billion in six-seven years. where as over trillion dollar spent in Iraq. over $115 billion spent in Afghanistan.
US a country which has over $17 billion budget of Dog`s ice cream a year yet u give us a loaf of bread for 10 starving people and ask us to do the dirty work for u.
what we need to do sit around the table, do understand the cultural and sensitive issues and devise strategies to counter the problem, no dictation from u no attacks also, we want friends not masters. open ur mind 
Long Live


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## TOPGUN

All those bastards should be hanged for doing this cowardly act and causing more tension and prob's with India !! and giving us a bad name.

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## mhacsan

srijeesh said:


> btw, guys who is pak gonna prosecute? if reports on this forum are to be believed then the FIA submitted a investigation report that 'mumbai' was planned outside pak, the cultprits are bangladeshi, so, who are you gonna prosecute?
> 
> I agree with solomon, such contradicting and confusing reports from pakistan have brought down that country's credibility. today, the average person outside pak, sees pak as a country supporting terrorism. it is upto pak, to clear that image.



Look srijeesh my friend, first of all u need to bring ur tone down at goverment level, you sholud not allegate pakistan`s involvement in Mumbai, as u know terriost has no nationality-even if it is ture that Ajaml is pakistani, as we are fighting the war within ourselve and we are the biggest victim coutesy US-, 9/11 was carried out by 7 Saudis, that did not make saudi-a-arabia a terriost state, so if u think u will send armitage type character and dictate terms it wont happen neither threating will do the jod nor blackmailing will surve the purpose, 

as far as credibility is concern as u and solomon has mentioned, volume of efforts menitoned in my above post speaks the truth n we can not n will not do more. i wish as this mumbai story unveiled the indian goverment had act sensibily by not agitating, making a huge propoganda out of it things could have been different- if all of this is true as Colonel Prohit was a traitor.
i give u my words, if there is pakistan goverment involvment in it, than i will stand by the views of indian general public but until this it has not been proven in court of law,then my friend i would love to differ and u n world need to understand it that let thigns be proved first and then we draw conclusion not jumping to them.

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## srijeesh

hacsan said:


> Look srijeesh my friend, first of all u need to bring ur tone down at goverment level, you sholud not allegate pakistan`s involvement in Mumbai, as u know terriost has no nationality-even if it is ture that Ajaml is pakistani, as we are fighting the war within ourselve and we are the biggest victim coutesy US-, 9/11 was carried out by 7 Saudis, that did not make saudi-a-arabia a terriost state, so if u think u will send armitage type character and dictate terms it wont happen neither threating will do the jod nor blackmailing will surve the purpose,
> 
> as far as credibility is concern as u and solomon has mentioned, volume of efforts menitoned in my above post speaks the truth n we can not n will not do more. i wish as this mumbai story unveiled the indian goverment had act sensibily by not agitating, making a huge propoganda out of it things could have been different- if all of this is true as Colonel Prohit was a traitor.
> i give u my words, if there is pakistan goverment involvment in it, than i will stand by the views of indian general public but until this it has not been proven in court of law,then my friend i would love to differ and u n world need to understand it that let thigns be proved first and then we draw conclusion not jumping to them.



ok, since you come across as a moderate and a sensible person, lets discuss in a fair and frank way. 
as soon as the 'mumbai' happened india had indications that this was outside job, specifically pakistan. even then, india didnt directly accuse pakistan or its govt. it only said that some 'elements' within pakistan might be responsible. this is similar to line by your prez about 'non-state actors'. 
then india asked/requested that ISI chief be sent to india for joint investigation. pakistan agreed.
but backtracked later. this was the first jolt to pakistan's credibility. if pakistan had sent the ISI chief then indian govt would have been more than happy to give all the evidence even before asked. then, media(indian and pakistani) was reporting that qasab was a pakistan and his father accepted that fact before camera. but GOP refused to accept it. qasab wrote to pak consulate in india for legal help, but pakistan declined help saying that qasab is not a pakistani. when durrani accepted that qasab is a pakistani on a channel, he was sacked.
all this has lead to grave suspicions about the intentions of pakistani establishment. zardari has asked for foreign help in investigating BB's assasination, why was the investigation not done by you agencies. obviously, they are not trusted. when you dont trust them, how do you expect others to do so?
as for the tone of indian politicians, you have to sympathise with our plight. we were still smarting under an attack of such brutality. even, then india showed great restraint and has asked your govt to complete the investigation and give it a report.

wat did US do, when it was attacked similarly in 9/11? compare it with indian reaction.


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## Pk_Thunder

*Mumbai probe going in right direction: Ban Ki-moon*​
Updated at: 2220 PST, Wednesday, February 04, 2009 
ISLAMABAD: Secretary General of the United Nations Ban Ki-moon Wednesday expressed his satisfaction over Pakistans investigations into Mumbai attacks.

Addressing a joint press conference with Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani here, he urged Pakistan to cooperate with India in its probe into the Mumbai incident.

On the occasion, the Prime Minster said Pakistan is against terrorism in all its forms and manifestations and those who commit criminal acts outside the country will also be brought to justice.

Ban Ki-moon described the Kashmir standoff as the most important issue of South Asia and appreciated Pakistans role in war on terror.

PM Yousuf Raza Gilani said Pakistan is committed not to allowing use of its territory for terrorist activities.

The UN Chief termed the PMs statement issued two days ago regarding formation of legislation for bringing to trial even those elements who perpetrate crimes outside Pakistan. However, the Prime Minister on the occasion said he had discussed this with the Interior Minister who had informed that an Act already exists in this regard.


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## zombie:-)

Jihad said:


> I find it hard to believe that perhaps aliens from Mars plotted these attacks?



WHEN DID OUR NEIGHBORING STATE GO TO MARS MATE

no offence

thanx


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## Salahadin

LONDON: Describing "organisers" of Mumbai and Kabul embassy attacks as "clients and creations" of Pakistan's ISI, India has said those behind the 

carnages are known to prepare for strikes across the world and cautioned against any "compromise" with such forces. ( Watch ) 

India also indicated its opposition to the sale of arms to Pakistan by the US and others in the name of fight against terrorism and extremism, saying such supplies were "totally unrelated" to objective meant for and rather act as "whisky to an alcoholic, a drug reinforcing an addiction". 

Addressing an international conference in Paris on Wednesday, foreign secretary Shivshankar Menon said "we, in India, are next to the epicentre of international terrorism in Pakistan." 

India has "directly suffered the consequences of linkages and relationships among terrorist organisations, their support structures, official sponsors and funding mechanisms, which transcend national borders but operate within them," he said in a clear reference to Pakistan. 

"Any compromise with such forces, howsoever, pragmatic or opportune it might appear momentarily, only encourages them," Menon said at the Institute Francais des Relations Internationales (IFRI). 

Referring to the Mumbai terror strikes and the Kabul embassy attack last July, Menon said "in each case, the perpetrators planned, trained and launched their attacks from Pakistan, and the organisers were and remain clients and creations of the ISI." 

The foreign secretary said two months after the Mumbai attacks and one month after India presented a "dossier of evidence" linking the attacks to elements in Pakistan, "we still await a response from the Pakistani authorities, and prevarication continues". 

Describing the "polity beside us" as "fragile and unfinished", Menon said "there is much that the international community can do to help. 

"For instance, arms sales to Pakistan totally unrelated to the fight against terrorism or extremism are like whisky to an alcoholic, a drug reinforcing an addiction, skewing the internal political balance and making the consolidation of democracy more difficult." 

This was apparently a message to the US and some other western countries which are selling arms to Pakistan in the name of fight against terrorism. 

Underlining that India was seeking a peaceful periphery in "our own interest", he said New Delhi will work with all those in Pakistan and the international community who further that goal.


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## Patriot

Hmm I thought India does not need Western countries help to hurt Pakistan...


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Yeesh - they don't stop from spreading lies and distortions do they. 

And then the Indians wonder why Pakistanis are upset.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

> "For instance, arms sales to Pakistan totally unrelated to the fight against terrorism or extremism are like whisky to an alcoholic, a drug reinforcing an addiction, skewing the internal political balance and making the consolidation of democracy more difficult."
> 
> This was apparently a message to the US and some other western countries which are selling arms to Pakistan in the name of fight against terrorism.



Oh right, more whining and tantrums over weapons sales to Pakistan.

Heavens forbid we have the ability to defend ourselves from Indian warmongers and aggression.

Someone pass the whiskey please!

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## s90

Yes they are,do whatever u like


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## Lockheed F-16

They are more kinda creation of RAW, aren't they?


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## Flintlock

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Yeesh - they don't stop from spreading lies and distortions do they.
> 
> And then the Indians wonder why Pakistanis are upset.



You still want to deny that the ISI trains and equips militants?


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

By the way, we make some excellent whiskey of our own in Pakistan!


*Pakistan brewery produces Muslim world's first 20-year whisky*​ 

By Isambard Wilkinson in Rawalpindi
Last Updated: 1:32AM GMT 26 Feb 2007






Murree's whisky, Pakistan brewery produces Muslim world's first 20-year whisky​Murree's malt will be true to its name of 'Rarest'

The Islamic republic of Pakistan has won the distinction of producing the Muslim world's first 20-year-old malt whisky.

The Murree Brewery in Rawalpindi, founded in 1860 to make ale and spirits for soldiers during the British Raj, is the only producer of whisky and beer in a constitutionally Muslim country.

Despite a torrid history in which it has been burnt down by Muslim protesters and temporarily shut down in an Islamist purge, the Murree brewery has survived against the odds and has previously produced celebrated eight and 12-year-old single malts.

"Few distilleries in the world, even the high-end ones in Scotland, produce 20-year-old malts," said Minnoo Bhandara, the Parsee businessman whose family has run the brewery since the creation of Pakistan at the partition of British India in 1947.

Officially, the 20-year malt will be true to its name of "Rarest".

Under Pakistani law it cannot be drunk by 97 per cent of the country and it cannot be exported.

But the production of the rare whisky has coincided with an unprecedented debate in Pakistan about the prohibition on drinking alcohol. In 1977 the former prime minister, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, bowed to the demands of Islamic political parties and imposed an alcohol ban on Muslims.

Since then the brewery has officially been catering for the three per cent of Pakistan's population that comprises of the non-Muslim communities of Christians, Hindus and those of Mr Bhandara's Zoroastrian faith.

However, the ingenuity of thirsty Pakistanis means that rather a lot of the 660,000 gallons of beer that Murree produces every year and the 110,000 gallons of whisky that is stored in its cellars reaches a Muslim clientele.

"I think 99 per cent of my customers are Muslim," said Mr Bhandara, who is an Oxford-educated MP.

The official punishment sanctioned by the Koran of 80 lashes with an oil-soaked whip has never been applied.

The unexpected debate on drinking was sparked earlier this month by Ali Akbar Wains, a maverick parliamentarian, who suggested in the national assembly that by banning the "minor evil" of alcohol, the government had helped the "major evil" of drugs to flourish in the country.

The call to legalise drinking alcohol was taken up by the likes of Mr Bhandara, who has long battled against the so-called "Teetotalitarian" state.

Mr Bhandara said that the debate was "one of the best things that has happened to this country." But he sees little hope of progress. "The subject of drinking will stir up a hornet's nest," he said, adding that Pakistan will maintain its ban on exporting alcohol.

In the coming months Murree beer will be available in Indian restaurants in Britain under the slogan "Have a Murree With Your Curry" after a deal struck with a Belgian brewer to produce the drink under licence.

Pakistan brewery produces Muslim world's first 20-year whisky - Telegraph

More images:


​

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## Flintlock

"Have a Murree with your Curry". Very funny. But its not going to sell any whiskey.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Posted images up there ..


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## Vinod2070

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Oh right, more whining and tantrums over weapons sales to Pakistan.
> 
> Heavens forbid we have the ability to defend ourselves from Indian warmongers and aggression.
> *
> Someone pass the whiskey please! *


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## srijeesh

isnt this wat everyone is saying? why target only indian leaders?


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## Flintlock

*Severing ISI link with terror groups in progress: Boucher*

** US official says Obamas special envoy will focus particularly on Pakistan, Afghanistan*

Daily Times Monitor

*LAHORE: Severing the link of the Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) from Pakistan-based terrorist groups is a work in progress and the United States will make sure that it is done effectively, US Assistant Secretary of State for South Asia Richard Boucher told Outlook India on Saturday.*

Talking to Ashish Kumar Sen in Washington, Boucher said *Pakistan had been off to a promising start in the process, but a lot more needed to be done to eliminate the threat. He said the US did not support calls in India to strike suspected terrorist sites in Pakistan, but did want to see the source of terror eliminated.*

*We want to see the groups that helped organise this from Pakistani soil eliminated. The most effective way is to work with the Pakistanis, Boucher told Outlook India.*

Commenting on the Indian demands that Pakistan hand over Mumbai attacks masterminds to New Delhi, Boucher said the US expected to deal with those kinds of legal questions in the appropriate legal framework and legal process.

Which means the investigators will investigate, he told the paper.

Boucher said there was no need to draw any conclusions about the information contained in the dossier regarding the Mumbai attacks, which India provided to Pakistan.

One shouldnt draw too many distinctions about this information. It is useful information. Each side needs to take it, needs to explore it, needs to build on it, he told the Outlook. Boucher said the Obama administrations special envoy on South Asia will focus particularly on Pakistan and Afghanistan because of the related nature of some of their problems.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

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## s90

> "I think 99 per cent of my customers are Muslim,"



 .......i also

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

srijeesh said:


> isnt this wat everyone is saying? why target only indian leaders?



We get a reaction from the Indians on this forum! 

But seriously, no offense to you guys personally. Quite honestly these statements are repeated so often, despite India's own exoneration of our institutions in the investigation, as well as that of the FBI, CIA, SY, that they hold little credibility anymore.

I read that report before Salahadin started the thread, dn continued on. A month ago I woudl have started the thread and bashed him no end. Its just absurd now.

I doubt any one in the world community is buying this stuff either - yes the ISI has worked with kashmiri militant groups, but India has also violated her international commitments on resolving Kashmir. The two go hand in hand. That is why you will note that bar India, no one else has asked Pakistan to act beyond the LeT/JuD and the alleged perpetrators, and against the entire Kashmiri Freedom movement. 

So long as the rest of the groups confine themselves to fighting Indian security forces, and the region remains disputed, I doubt anyone is going to put a huge amount of pressure on Pakistan. Even the pressure in 2002 was after the Parliament attack, and becasue of the threat of war. 

Pakistan is also investigating the attacks, and I think the world is going to wait and see what the investigation concludes, and what Pakistan will do as a follow up, in terms of prosecutions etc. of the suspects.

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## srijeesh

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> I think the world is going to wait and see what the investigation concludes, and what Pakistan will do as a follow up, in terms of prosecutions etc. of the suspects.



isnt this wat india is also doing?


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

srijeesh said:


> isnt this wat india is also doing?



In reality yes, but then it also goes into these 'fits', like the GoI has turrets or something, and periodically blurts out something about 'Pakistani institutions are involved'.

I mean really, as I repeatedly have said, India's own evidence dossier said that no evidence of Pakistani institutional involvement was found - so why are all your leaders contradicting their own evidence and investigation?

Its obviously just distortions to try and keep pressure on Pakistan, but it has gone on so long that it is starting to wear thin. It has also poisoned the atmosphere between the two countries at an official and individual level. 

Completely irresponsible behavior by the GoI.


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## Flintlock

Well, there's a clearly a misunderstanding on what is meant by "official involvement". As I read in another article, the system in Pakistan is hardly transparent, and often nobody knows who did what to whom.
It is unlikely therfore that the top officials in Pakistan were involved in the attack, but highly likely that some lower-level officials were.


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## Patriot

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Oh right, more whining and tantrums over weapons sales to Pakistan.
> 
> Heavens forbid we have the ability to defend ourselves from Indian warmongers and aggression.
> 
> Someone pass the whiskey please!


Man US Army and USAF are dumb people.They are using F-16's in Afghanistan.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Flintlock said:


> Well, there's a clearly a misunderstanding on what is meant by "official involvement". As I read in another article, the system in Pakistan is hardly transparent, and often nobody knows who did what to whom.
> It is unlikely therfore that the top officials in Pakistan were involved in the attack, but highly likely that some lower-level officials were.



That would be the case in any intelligence agency when you have operators in the field - though authorization/disbursement of funds, at a level that such an operation might require, woudl still be monitored by someone high up in the institution.

The fact is that there is nothign in this operation that could not have been obtained off the street - the Taliban and AQ in FATA/Afghanistan have shown that they have access to weapons and resources to accomplish this. That is basically what the Indian argument is, that this could not have been done without 'official involvement'.

But by that standard the insurgency in FATA/Swat, which is even more sophisticated and well funded, cannot be possible without 'Official Indian involvement'. Just today I heard on CNN that one third of gang members arrested in the LA area have military training (ex-military). It is highly likely the some ex-military in Pakistan may have joined the ranks of these groups. If it can happen in the US, it can happen in Pakistan.

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## blain2

Flintlock said:


> You still want to deny that the ISI trains and equips militants?



Yes we do. ISI is not about helping and training any or everyone who has a bone to pick with India. There are legitimate interests in the Kashmir Valley struggle, but as far as supporting loonies who go around killing innocents all over India, please! Give us some credit. In this case there is no connection! You guys have been proven wrong by the British and Americans alike. Lets not start getting over our heads here. I know you folks have many bones to pick with ISI and the Pakistan Army, however this time, you are clearly overreaching and trying to make connections which have no basis or are ill-founded. Reminds me of the "terrorist Army" campaign in the NYT post Kargil to settle scores.


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## blain2

Flintlock said:


> Well, there's a clearly a misunderstanding on what is meant by "official involvement". As I read in another article, the system in Pakistan is hardly transparent, and often nobody knows who did what to whom.
> It is unlikely therfore that the top officials in Pakistan were involved in the attack, but highly likely that some lower-level officials were.



Well then lets be very clear in how that is stated (if you have proof of lower elements being involved then provide it). The way the claim has been made sounds like DG-ISI and all of the ISI is involved in it with the directions coming from GoP. Classic hyperbole...


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## Flintlock

^What is your view on Richard Boucher's comments?


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Flintlock said:


> ^What is your view on Richard Boucher's comments?



Playing to the gallery ...


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## Flintlock

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Playing to the gallery ...



That's it? A senior US official is 'playing to the gallery'?


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## blain2

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> That would be the case in any intelligence agency when you have operators in the field - though authorization/disbursement of funds, at a level that such an operation might require, woudl still be monitored by someone high up in the institution.
> 
> The fact is that there is nothign in this operation that could not have been obtained off the street - the Taliban and AQ in FATA/Afghanistan have shown that they have access to weapons and resources to accomplish this. That is basically what the Indian argument is, that this could not have been done without 'official involvement'.
> 
> But by that standard the insurgency in FATA/Swat, which is even more sophisticated and well funded, cannot be possible without 'Official Indian involvement'. Just today I heard on CNN that one third of gang members arrested in the LA area have military training (ex-military). It is highly likely the some ex-military in Pakistan may have joined the ranks of these groups. If it can happen in the US, it can happen in Pakistan.



AM, 

Until its proven, I would say even the chances of ex-servicemen from Pakistan is remote. 

Indians are amazed at the level of the training because of the way these guys handled AK-47 and the grenades,, well welcome to the post 9/11 terror. We are fighting extremely motivated people and small arms proficiency is no big deal. They are well trained and can give a fight. That should come as no surprise to anyone. The arms and logistics can be arranged without any sort of official support. Pakistani military formations are amazed at the level of equipment, communications gear and logistics that the AQ linked militants have as they have found out while fighting them since 2002.

Indians need to move away from this Pakistan bogey. This problem has international connections. It does not make sense for either the GoP or the ISI to sanction something that would result in the killings of civilians of Indian, American, British, Israeli and many other nationalities. It is essentially like painting a bulls eye on yourself...I have absolutely no reason to believe that ISI is in anyway linked.

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## blain2

Flintlock said:


> ^What is your view on Richard Boucher's comments?



Well for that matter what are your views on Miliband and Noble's comments?


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## Flintlock

blain2 said:


> Well for that matter what are your views on Miliband and Noble's comments?



Miliband probably meant that the Pakistani state itself did not plan and execute the operation on India (that's what I made of it anyways), whereas Boucher is talking about a completely different thing, of certain sections of the ISI (or certain individuals) cooperating with the terrorists to plan and execute the attack. 

I don't recall who Noble is.


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## pama

for get India blaming ISI.
Do you forget Benerzr accused ISI for plotting to kill her?
Did she not accuse ISI for pulling down elected government?
Did zaradari accuse ISI for killing Benerzer?

If this video is allowed in your country look at this and look at what benerzr said abt ISI secreat government and state inside state 






ISI and CIA is clearly behind Taliban take over kabul.
Which ISI is trying hard to do this in Kashmir.
this makes Indian army presence in Kashmir legitimate and again beating chest abt army presence there.
and raise this issue with these attacks.
Kashmir Issue can be resolve only bilateral every one agrees to that.
resove it like that then using these cheap tactics.


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## pama

blain2 said:


> Well for that matter what are your views on Miliband and Noble's comments?



Miliband said with British intelligence reports he is sure that attracts are from Pakistan.


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## blain2

pama said:


> Miliband said with British intelligence reports he is sure that attracts are from Pakistan.



The issue is not where the attacks are coming from, rather who planned it. There is no state sponsorship of Kasab and co. from ISI or any other state entity. Lets be very clear about it.

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## srijeesh

it is well established that pakistanis(qasab) are involved in this attack. LET/JUD(a pakistan based terror organisation) is behind it.

Mr. Menon was only reiterating the indian viewpoint that such a large scale attack cant be planned and executed without institutional attack. pakistan may not accept this view.
frankly, I dont think he expects pakistan to accept it either.

btw, there are reports that PN had guided the boat in which terrorists travelled from karachi.


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## Solomon2

"Murree with curry?" Catchy, but I think whiskey goes better with curry than beer. Not scotch - good ol' American bourbon. A sip of bourbon (or Tennesee whiskey) counteracts the curry without imparting the smokiness of scotch or the bitterness of hops, so it leaves the palate ready for another yummy bite of food. Try it sometime if you don't believe me!


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## koolio

srijeesh said:


> it is well established that pakistanis(qasab) are involved in this attack. LET/JUD(a pakistan based terror organisation) is behind it.
> 
> Mr. Menon was only reiterating the indian viewpoint that such a large scale attack cant be planned and executed without institutional attack. pakistan may not accept this view.
> frankly, I dont think he expects pakistan to accept it either.
> 
> btw, there are reports that PN had guided the boat in which terrorists travelled from karachi.



India should either put up or shut up instead of barking non stop the report from Pakistan has not been released so would it not be wise they wait for the report then conclude but the way these Indian leaders are coming out with provocative statements will certainly not help in defusing tensions rather increase bigger mistrust.


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## Pk_Thunder

*Pakistan strongly rejects Indias ISI accusation*​
Dawn Report
Thursday, 05 Feb, 2009 | 11:55 PM PST |
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Thursday rejected Indian accusation against countrys premier intelligence outfit  Inter Services Intelligence  saying such statements were not helpful for the probe into the Mumbai attack.
Reacting sharply to the statement of Indian Foreign Secretary Shiv Shankar Menon alleging there was a linkage between the perpetrators of Mumbai attack and ISI, Foreign Office Spokesman Abdul Basit said *India should not jump the gun by making statements at a time when Pakistan is sincerely carrying out investigations into the Mumbai attacks.
Some patience should be shown.* The spokesman said instead of leveling baseless allegations against Pakistans institutions, India should help in investigating Mumbai attacks.
Earlier, Indian foreign secretary Menon had in his speech at the foreign affairs conference in Paris said: *The perpetrators planned, trained and launched their attacks from Pakistan, and the organisers were and remain clients and creations of the ISI.*
*It should be recalled that FBI after thorough grilling of the lone surviving attacker cleared ISI of any involvement in the attack.*
Menon's speech steps up India's rhetoric against Pakistan and reflects growing frustration from New Delhi.
In the speech, Menon accused Pakistan of prevarication in investigating the attacks and bringing the perpetrators to justice.

Analysts and diplomats said Menon's remarks were a sign of India's impatience with Pakistan and a growing feeling in New Delhi that the civilian government in Islamabad would do nothing that would show the ISI in a critical light.

These comments are a result of that endless wait, and India believes that the civilian government of Pakistan has been given a tight brief by the army not to allow the heat to reach the corridors of the ISI, said Naresh Chandra, India's former ambassador to the United States.
The patience is coming to an end and it is beginning to evolve as an endless exercise as India is waiting for a fair response from Pakistan for far too long, he continued.
Menon said a promising peace dialogue with Pakistan had fallen victim to repeated breach of a 2003 ceasefire between the two countries, increased cross-border infiltration and attacks on Indian interests and cities from Pakistan.

He said India was willing to work with Pakistan and the international community to bring peace in South Asia.

Given the fragile and unfinished nature of the polity beside us, there is much that the international community can do to help, he said.


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## Al-zakir

Kashmir Watch, Feb 4

By Dr. Abdul Ruff Colachal 


Why Terrorists in Mumbai targeted Israel centre too? is the intriguing question that is being raised around the world and the answer is not too difficult to find either.

The covert as well as covert ties between India and Israel on the one hand and India and USA on the other have been going on for decades without the world noticing that. The world thought the nations are divided over ideology rather seriously and there cannot be any relationship between former and current adversaries. Even USA and Russia had trade and technological ties for decades in a limited sense. Similarly India has had hidden ties with both USA and Israel and only recently the ties came out so openly to shock the world.

I 

Mumbai terrorists on Nov26 did the job meticulously well by provoking every possible ally in the world. By killing foreigners mainly from the West, Indians have enlisted the support of all western terror nations against Islam and Muslims; As a result, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Kashmir and Muslims in India could be target of the entire world, USA, UK, Israel etc being in the lead. Pakistan, as before became panicky thinking that some of the Muslims they are fighting against under Indo-US supervisions would have struck in Mumbai, but they knew these Muslims could not have done that with high precision and that only Indian Hindus have the capacity to do it this way in India.

The Mumbai attackers may have seemed to target whatever came in their way, be it the railway station (the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminal), or luxurious hotels (the Taj and the Oberoi Trident) or any community center (Nariman House), but now reports have revealed that the assault on Nariman House, a Jewish centre was primarily because of India's growing ties with Israel because the terrorists wanted involve Israel also to join Indo-US strategic killing of Muslims in its neighbourhoods. 

Look at the Indian strategy to woo the Jews to support Indian case every where: According to retired Indian Vice Admiral Das, the aim of the attack on the Jewish centre was to tell India that its growing links with the Israel is not acceptable to the terrorist groups. "Nariman House attack was to tell the Indians clearly that your growing linkage with Israel is not what you should be doing. I think the rest is peripheral". India wants to use terrorism ploy to get military concessions from other anti-Islamic nations.

II 

India for quite some time has been long for relationships with both USA and Israel and it has to some extent succeeded in its efforts, even while without disturbing its economic relations with Islamic world, mainly the Gulf States. 

Apart from acquiring military wares from the USA and Europe and Russia, in recent times, India has become one of the largest customers of Israeli military techniques and arms, which are considered one of the most advanced and lethal in the world. India acquires weapons of about 1.5 billion dollars every year from Israel. Only Russia sells more arms to India than Israel. India believes terrorism ploy could help advance its military interests in USA and Israel and obviously it cannot go wrong.

When Israel unleashed holocaust in Palestine India did not even consider necessary to talk about it, let alone condemning this ghastly affair of fascist Israel, because India is also a fascist nation and unleash terror regularly in Jammu Kashmir under its custody. One does not if Indian leaders congratulated the Israeli fascists for their good work done in Palestine. 

III

India as a policy never finds fault with Hindus, even when there is 100% evidence for their terror attacks in India, but it is keen to paint Muslims in dirty colours, Muslims in India, Kashmir, Pakistan and Bangladesh. That is basis of Indian secular democratic principles.

India seeks advance military equipment and technology at confessional rates by using Russia as bargain chip, but now Mumbai Nov26 has given an extra advantage to New Delhi to obtain more privileges from Tel Aviv. Israel showcased its latest terror methods in Palestine by using cluster bombs killing thousands of innocent Palestinians, including hundreds of children and they have to be tried in special tribunals. But more agreements might be signed in the days to come between Jewish state and Hindustan with blessings form US Christian democracy killing Muslims in Arab world and Afghanistan. . . .

India feels it could not take as much mileage as it sought from Nov26 but then it helped gain extra hands from Israel. The ruthlessness of the attack at the Jewish centre indicated how important the location was to the assailants who wanted to enlist the support of a close Indian military ally Israel for Indian terror cause. Israel immediately killed thousands of innocent Palestinians in Gaza. India created a lot of smoke from the Taj building so as to make the vent appear as big as WTO in USA and to compare it with Sept1, but failed to impress the ultimate UNSC authorities for a seat.

Probably, all these anti-Islamic nations, USA, India and Israel view Muslims as useable and throwable items, Arabs as an illusionary cheatable nation and even say that the Arab world is full of fools. Astonishingly, when Palestine was being under terror attacks form fascist Israel, the Islamic world was only watching the shows over TV and news-pictures and enjoying the major news items. 

The author is Delhi based Research Scholar in International Studies and can be reached at abdulruff_jnu@yahoo.com

Kashmir Watch :: In-depth coverage on Kashmir conflict


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## Energon

blain2 said:


> The issue is not where the attacks are coming from, rather who planned it.There is no state sponsorship of Kasab and co. from ISI or any other state entity. Lets be very clear about it.


 The issue is very much about where these attacks are coming from. Kasab may not have official sanction of the nation, but he was recruited, trained and deployed by one of the institutions created by the state's agencies not too long ago, with the primary objective of conducting low intensity/subversive/proxy warfare and terrorism against India. Let's first and foremost be very, very clear on this point. (There are numerous internationally vetted official reports, intelligence briefs, published literature and admissions from Pakistan's own intelligentsia, and insiders about the origins of groups like JeM and LeT)

It would also be prudent to realize that the issue of state sponsorship when it comes to terrorist attacks by organizations like LeT, JeM etc. is an oxymoron. The fundamental reason for the creation of these groups was to absolve the state of blame, censure and retribution when perpetuating war, murder and violence; and their handling by the clandestine agencies was conducted with the primary intent of official deniablity. In short, the whole point of having spies control terrorists is to not leave paper trails; but that doesn't change the fact that there are spies, and terrorists, and they share a relationship. Also the blanket of deniability doesn't necessarily cover the serious repercussions when the non existent spies can no longer control the 'non state actors' who carry out gross acts of murder and war that are all too real.

In regards to the Indian government holding Pakistan responsible for terrorism, an issue that has IMO been misconstrued in the press:

At least based on the formal position as voiced by Indian officials that I have been able to see present their case here in the US, I don't think they're saying that the Pakistani government "ordered a hit" on Mumbai; and even if they did there is certainly no evidence of it (albeit the whole point of ordering hits is specifically to not leave palpable evidence). What the Indian government is saying is that the mere existence of these institutions and the scope of their operational abilities after numerous international episodes warranting censure, warnings and subsequent promises from the GoP to crack down upon said groups over the past decade+ clearly indicated one of two things:

1. Pakistan is in fact a categorically ramshackle failed state where the government is incapable of preventing such high profile and massive institutions with global aspirations and vetted regional capabilities from operating freely from its territory. In which case the two subsequent deductions from this assumption would be: A) the out of control institutions should essentially be considered as parallel governments. Especially considering that institutions like LeT/JuD or whatever they are called this week have shown the ability to outperform governmental agencies in providing certain services; in addition of course to their ability to unilaterally attack another state and hold a city hostage. B) Pakistan's sovereignty is a joke if these parastatal organizations can wage war upon India at will.

2. The various terrorist organizations aimed at India remain free to operate, improve their capabilities and carry out trans national attacks from Pakistan with at least the tacit approval (which includes intentional ignorance and/or criminal negligence) of the government.

The GoP mobilized various representatives to deny the first category through a paper that was presented to the UN in January indicating that the GoP had just enough coverage in their territory (primarily in the east) to technically stave off the "failed state" label. Although the comprehensive picture was a bit hollow considering the western portion of the state it at least indicated that no India specific organization like the LeT could exist in Pakistan without the GoP having a good idea of their capabilities; and if they so desired could dismantle them, or at least render their ability to attack India inert. It then led to the consensus that the GoP should be held accountable for the organizations that they have spurned and the underhanded support they still provide them. That the connection between client Jihadi groups and the government have been incognito intelligence operatives and retired military officers is a topic that has been heavily discussed in the academic circles and which is also if I'm not mistaken elaborated upon by Ahmad Rashid in his latest book; so this isn't conjecture by any means, and again, to expect paper trails to establish the veracity of this claim in the court of law is oxymoronic.

Lastly, the intel reports suggesting the support that these 10 assailants had was based on much more than their ability to wield Kalashnikov rifles and throw grenades. In fact there is a very detailed analysis (I haven't seen it published as open source so I won't elaborate upon it in detail) as to how and what distinguishes these attackers from your run of the mill gun toting grenade blasting terrorist that are now dime a dozen in Pakistan. Furthermore the complexity and the institutional capabilities required to raise Fidayeen cadres is another thing you're overlooking in your simplistic explanation as to what the Indians found amazing about these particular assailants. What you fail to realize is that although the defensive apparatus of the Indian government itself is pathetic when it comes to protecting themselves from terrorist attacks, there are quite a few well renowned and highly experienced experts on the science of anti terrorism in the Indian academic and governmental structure whose council is sought worldwide. There are at least 4 of them (ok 3 of them, one isn't technically Indian) who are co-authors on the paper in question; so it certainly isn't something officials from the executive branch are pulling out of thin air. 

There are however serious and prohibitive international ramifications for countries like the US and the UK to publicly hold the current civilian GoP responsible for the terrorism link who are hence forced to tread carefully, choose their words very wisely and try their best to suppress the recent Afghanistan embassy bombing link (technically a direct act of war) to do everything short of stating the obvious.

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## Energon

^^ Oh snap, sorry about the ridiculously lengthy post.


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## BanglaBhoot

By Madhavi Bhasin

05 February, 2009
Countercurrents.org

This week Pakistan is expected to respond to India's dossier dealing with the investigations of the Mumbai terror strikes. On February 4, Pakistani Minister of State for Interior, Tasnim Ahmed Qureshi stated that "Within days the Foreign Ministry will completely declare (the findings of Pakistan's probe into the Mumbai incident)." Pakistan's High Commissioner to India Shahid Malik also visited Islamabad earlier this week for consultations meant to finalize Pakistan's response. There has been no official statement on the on-going investigation from the Pakistani side, but indications of what is coming can be discerned from the comments of Wajid Shamsul Hasan, Pakistan's High Commissioner to the UK. In a report by the BBC, according to Wajid Hasan the investigations clearly establish that Pakistani territory was not used for conducting the Mumbai attacks. This is despite the fact that Pakistan has accepted India's claim that Mohammad Ajmal Amir Qasab, the lone surviving terrorist of the Mumbai terror siege, is a Pakistani national.

With Pakistan's response the second act of the play will convene. Pakistan's willingness to investigate the Mumbai terror strikes had averted a military confrontation between the two hostile neighbors. Once Pakistan makes its investigations public, the focus will shift to how India handles the much expected response. A number of alternatives are available and final act of this thriller play depends on the choice that India will make. Given the anticipation that Pakistan is most likely to refute the allegations contained in the dossier, India will have five policy choices available.

First, apply its 'Cold Start' Doctrine. In 2004 India officially unveiled its new war doctrine following the lessons of the 2001-2002 military stand-off with Pakistan. The 'Cold Start' doctrine envisions using 'integrated battle units' comprising of contingents from the Army and Navy to conduct swift and calibrated strikes on the enemy territory. The strategy is expected to allow speedy action by India, yet keep the war limited. The strike units would accomplish clearly specified target missions and withdraw from enemy territory. The logic behind the strategy is to attack and destroy militant training camps, while not threatening Pakistan to the extent that the nuclear option comes to the table. Though the logistical and military expertise required for such operations are still in the developmental stage, India can hope to secure a politico-strategic victory by operationlizing the "Cold Start' strategy.

Second, maintain a threatening posture. India can opt for maintaining a heightened state of military preparedness with the objective of pressuring Pakistan and keeping the issue alive. Operation Parakaram in December 2001-2002 bears testimony to such possibility. If India decides against the cold start doctrine, an offensive military posture might help to counter the 'soft image' paradox. India's Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor had categorically stated in mid January that military action against Pakistan is one of the options available to India. Soldiers have been put on alert to meet any eventuality, Bofors artillery guns and other battle wares are reported to have been deployed by India along the Line of control with Pakistan. Comments like "India is capable of giving a befitting reply" and need to take 'strong action' against those involved in the Mumbai terror attacks reflects India's military resolve. Though an all out war between India and Pakistan does not appear to be a possibility, posturing for war is a likely option for India.

Third, undertake a diplomatic offensive coupled with economic sanctions. The most likely option is to make bilateral economic and cultural linkages contingent upon Pakistan's performance on counter-terrorism. India's Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee has clarified India's intentions by stating that "Our diplomatic efforts in dealing with terrorist states will continue unabated." The diplomatic offensive is most likely to include downgrading of bilateral relations. Hinting at this possibility, India Home Minister P. Chidambaram had referred to the possibility of snapping transport, trade and tourism ties with Pakistan. The symbolic value of such gestures could mobilize the international community's involvement in defusing the diplomatic crisis. Use of this option allows India to claim the moral high ground in the international arena while pacifying the domestic outrage.

Fourth, buy more time. India can take some time before delineating her response and future strategy. President Obama's Special Envoy, Richard Holbrooke is expected to be in the region shortly and India might consider stacking all options before the new U.S. administration's policy with regard to Pakistan gains clarity. Moreover, Indian government is unlikely to antagonize the public opinion just months before general elections are due in March/April 2009. Policies of either appeasement or confrontation vis-à-vis Pakistan can prove detrimental to the political fortunes of the ruling coalition. Political instability in Pakistan could also be cited as a pretext for delaying a tough response by India. India realizes that to a certain extent the democratic government in Pakistan is not fully capable of eliminating the terror camps within its territories. Minister of State for External Affairs, Anand Sharma's remarks in late December 2008, that India does not seek to enforce a time frame on Pakistan reflects the possibility of India adopting the wait and watch approach. A clear cut policy response might be deferred until after the general elections and India might simply respond with political rhetoric aimed at appealing to the domestic electorate.

Fifth, experiment with 'smart diplomacy.' Joseph Nye's concept of 'smart power', refers the ability to combine soft and hard power into a winning strategy. The concept of 'smart power' cannot be successfully applied by India in South Asia. Possibility of the use of hard power resources would alarm India's neighbors, especially Pakistan. Power, soft or hard, in the context of India's regional relations automatically translates into preponderance. Applying the tents of 'smart power' approach, with modifications, under the rubric of 'smart diplomacy' would best serve India's interest. The above discussed options available to India would inadequately respond to the issue of combating terrorism allegedly emanating from Pakistan. 'Smart diplomacy' would allow India to improve relations with Pakistan and address the issue of terrorism without compromising its national interest.

'Smart diplomacy' is based on the realization that perceptual adaptation supports policy alteration. If India continues to perceive counter-terrorism as Pakistan's responsibility, instruments of smart diplomacy cannot be employed. 'Smart diplomacy' demands that India shares Pakistan's efforts at countering terrorism. Perceptual alteration on India's part could be reciprocated by Pakistan paving way for constructive policies between the two neighbors.

'Smart diplomacy' is meant to replace India's excessive insistence on maligning Pakistan in the international arena. Under no circumstances should the channels of dialogue between India and Pakistan be disturbed. Disruption and resumption of bilateral dialogue for over six decades has not yielded positive results. Commitment to dialogue is an indication of minimizing the use of threats in bilateral relations. Threats and offensive postures have been as destructive as the actual use of force in the region. On the positive side, 'smart diplomacy' would entail intelligence support to Pakistan, enhanced economic relations, development aid and expanded people-to-people contact. Intelligence support would qualify as constructive assistance by India and also maintain international pressure on Pakistan. Enhanced economic relations would reinforce the concept of mutual growth while widening the constituency of peace in each country. Development aid would reflect India's sensitivities to Pakistan's challenges and civil society interactions could go a long way in managing public outrage on both sides of the border.

There are limits to what 'smart diplomacy' can achieve but it is the best option available to India under the given circumstances. Such diplomacy goes beyond rhetoric and postures to better serve India's national interest. In effect India has merely two choices: either to react to what Pakistan does or pro-actively employ her diplomatic tools for re-casting bilateral relations.


Madhavi Bhasin has earned her Doctoral degree from the Department of International Relations, Jadavpur University, with a specialization in South Asian regional affairs. She writes regularly on issues relating to U.S. foreign policy, South Asia, Middle East and conflict resolution. She is currently a freelancer based in California, U.S.
madhavibhasin@gmail.com 

India's Choices After Pakistan Responds To The Mumbai Dossier


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## Awesome

To sum it up... India's only option is to continue its war mongering...


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## kidwaibhai

Smart Diplomacy hahah. The indian elite really thinks that it has become a superpower already sheeesh. anyways as far as the cold start stupidity we have said time and again that pakistan does have to right to self defense by any means necessary. plus some of our best units are still stationed on the indian border the task is not that easy as the author would like us to believe. Indian intelligence is notoriously bad and might just end up killing innocent civilians much the way the israeli did in gaza.


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## BanglaBhoot

*Getting serious in Pakistan*

*Pakistan may, at last, be taking purposeful steps against the killers of Mumbai *

UNUSUALLY, Pakistan may be about to give the world a pleasant surprise. Speaking to The Economist, a senior Pakistani official reinforced a recent impression that Pakistan has at last launched a serious investigation into last Novembers devastating terrorist attacks in Mumbai, which India and Western governments have blamed on a banned Pakistani Islamist militant group, Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET).

The official said that Pakistani investigators had found new evidence to substantiate claims made in a dossier provided to them by India last month. Indiaas well as America and Britainclaims that the commando-style attacks on two hotels, a railway station and a Jewish centre in southern Mumbai, which lasted for three days and claimed over 170 lives, was plotted in Pakistan and launched from there.

Based largely on testimony from the sole surviving attacker, a young Pakistani called Muhammad Ajmal Qasab, India claims that he and nine other Pakistani militants set out from Pakistans Indus delta region in a small craft, and boarded an LET-owned vessel, al-Hussaini, registered in Karachi.

On entering Indian waters, the militants are alleged to have captured an Indian trawler, the Kuber, killed its crew and forced its captain to take them to within striking distance of Mumbai. There they killed him, abandoned the trawler, and used an inflatable dinghy for the final stage of their voyage

Pakistan admitted that Mr Qasab is Pakistaniafter a British journalist interviewed his family in their village in Pakistans province of Punjab. But it has not officially accepted that his accomplices were Pakistani, or that the plot was hatched in Pakistan. On January 30th Pakistans high commissioner to London, Wajed Shamsul Hasan, declared that the attack was not planned in Pakistan, and accused India of making allegations based on fabricated or flimsy evidence.

The senior Pakistani official, who is involved in Pakistans investigation, suggested that this was nonsense. He said that Pakistani investigators had established that al-Hussaini was owned by LET or its front organisation, a Muslim charity called Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JUD). Of ten sailors registered with the vessel, one had been killed a year previously, fighting with the banned militant group against Indian security forces in Kashmir. The official said that Pakistani investigators have traced the families of the remaining nine sailors, but failed to apprehend the men. The families had claimed that the men had gone away a year before, maybe two years ago, and they hadnt heard from them.

The official also said that Pakistani investigators had failed to trace the other nine attackersall of whom were killed by Indian security forceseven though Mr Qasab had provided a list of their names. He thought this might be because LET militants often go by false names.

The official said he had no doubt that the attack was plotted and executed by members of LET, more or less as the Indians allege. But he did not believe that the groups senior leaders had necessarily known of it. He also suggested that Pakistans main intelligence agency, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), which formerly supported LETs operations in Kashmir, had not been involved in the attack. ISI thinks this has hurt Pakistan. Why would they do something to damage Pakistan?

LETs founder, an engineering professor called Hafiz Saeed, officially left the Islamist group after it was banned in 2002. However, he and his lieutenants remained in command of JUD, which runs hundreds of schools and clinics in Pakistan, and is alleged to have raised funds for its banned sister organisation. Shortly after the Mumbai attacks, at the instigation of the UN, Pakistan also banned JUD and placed Mr Saeed and a dozen other of its leaders under house arrest. It also raided an alleged LET training-camp in the Pakistani portion of Kashmir, and arrested an LET commander who is alleged to have plotted the Mumbai attack, Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi.

The Pakistani official said he expected Pakistan to prosecute and convict those principally responsibleperhaps 20 peoplefor the attack in Mumbai, including Mr Lakhvi. This would be a better outcome than Pakistans denials have led India to expect. Perhaps signalling this, Indias hawkish national security adviser, M.K. Naryanan, said on February 1st that he had detected an improvement in Pakistans response to the matter, suggesting that they appear to be taking things seriously and at least they are proceeding in a manner that one would expect an investigative agency to proceed.

This is encouraging. But it is still much less than India has demanded, which is that Pakistan should wholly dismantle the anti-Indian militant networks that it has supported, or suffered, for so long.

Pakistan and the Mumbai killers | Getting serious in Pakistan | The Economist


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## Flintlock

*Very long document - read carefully!! *

*
LESSONS FROM MUMBAI*
*
Prepared Testimony by
Ashley J. Tellis
Senior Associate
Carnegie Endowment for International Peace*

to the
*
Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
United States Senate
January 28, 2009*
*
Congressional Testimony*
2
Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Senator Collins, and Members of the Committee. Thank you for
your invitation to testify on the recent terrorist attacks in Bombay (Mumbai) and their
consequences for the United States. As requested by the Chairman and Ranking Member in their
letter of invitation, I will focus my remarks on assessing the regional and global threat posed by
Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), the implications of that threat for the U.S. homeland, and the status of
U.S.&#8211;India cooperation on counterterrorism and homeland security. I respectfully request that
my statement be entered into the record.
Of all the terrorist groups present in South Asia&#8212;and there are many&#8212;LeT represents a threat
to regional and global security second only to al-Qaeda. Although LeT is linked in popular
perceptions mainly to the terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir, the operations and ideology of this
group transcend the violence directed at the Indian state. *Being an Ahl-e Hadith adherent of
Sunni Wahabism, LeT seeks to establish a universal Islamic Caliphate with a special emphasis on
realizing that dream through the gradual recovery of all lands that were once under Muslim rule.
The strategic objective of inaugurating a universal Caliphate has made LeT a strong ideological
ally of Al-Qaeda, while the emphasis on recovering &#8220;lost Muslim lands&#8221; in Asia and Europe has
taken LeT to diverse places such as Palestine, Spain, Chechnya, Kosovo and Eritrea.
That LeT is a constituent member of Osama bin Ladin&#8217;s International Islamic Front should not
be surprising given that one of its three founders, Abdullah Azzam of the International Islamic
University in Islamabad, was closely associated with Hamas and has been widely described as one
of bin Ladin&#8217;s religious mentors. Together with Hafiz Saeed, the LeT&#8217;s current amir, and Zafar
Iqbal of the Engineering University, Lahore, Azzam formed LeT in 1987 as the armed wing of
the Markaz Dawat-ul Irshad (MDI), the Center for Proselytization and Preaching, which sought
to actualize the universal Islamic state through tableegh (preaching) and jihad (armed struggle).
In the fervid atmosphere of the 1980s, when numerous extremist groups were springing up in
Pakistan under the patronage of the country&#8217;s principal intelligence agency, the Inter-Services
Intelligence (ISI), LeT&#8217;s militant attitude to political change, and its commitment to exploiting
modern science and technology in support of its ideological ends, quickly made it an ISI favorite
because its uncompromising commitment to jihad could be manipulated to advance Pakistan&#8217;s
own strategic goals. As Saeed noted in a January 1998 interview in a Pakistani news magazine,
Herald, &#8220;Many Muslim organizations are preaching and working on the missionary level inside
and outside Pakistan&#8230;but they have given up the path of jihad altogether. The need for jihad has
always existed and the present conditions demand it more than ever.&#8221;
Given Pakistan&#8217;s desire to control Afghanistan&#8212;an objective that dominated Islamabad&#8217;s
strategic policies during the 1980s and 1990s&#8212;this categorical commitment to religious renewal
through participation in armed struggle resulted in LeT becoming one of the key beneficiaries of
ISI support. For over two decades now&#8212;and continuing to this day&#8212;the ISI has maintained
strong institutional, albeit subterranean, links with LeT and has supported its operations through
generous financing and combat training; at many points in the past, ISI support also included
providing LeT with sophisticated weapons and explosives, specialized communications gear, and
various kinds of operational assistance as it conducted its missions in Afghanistan and against
India. Since the inauguration of the global war on terror, ISI assistance to LeT has become more
recessed but it has by no means ended, even though the organization was formally banned by
Pakistan&#8217;s President Pervez Musharraf on January 12, 2002.*
3

*LeT&#8217;s desire to engage in both preaching and jihad simultaneously found manifestation in
different ways from the moment of its founding. The group&#8217;s sprawling 200 acre headquarters at
Muridke outside of Lahore, believed to have been constructed with an initial gift from Osama bin
Laden&#8217;s Afghan operations and sustained since through contributions by ISI, Saudi charities,
Islamic NGOs, and Pakistani expatriates in Europe and the Middle East, quickly became the
nerve center from whence its vast charitable and militant activities were directed. LeT&#8217;s earliest
armed operations began immediately in the Afghan provinces of Konar and Pakhtia, where the
organization set up a series of terrorist training camps that over time were incorporated into the
Al-Qaeda network in Afghanistan. These militant activities, which were initially intended as part
of the ISI-managed war against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, became quickly
subordinated to either ISI-supervised efforts at bringing Kabul under Pakistani influence or Al-
Qaeda&#8217;s murderous terrorism missions against the West.*
*The LeT&#8217;s initial focus on Afghanistan is significant because it refutes the common
misapprehension&#8212;assiduously fostered since the early 1990s&#8212;that the group has always been a
part of the indigenous Kashmiri insurgency. Nothing could be further from the truth. The LeT is
composed primarily of Pakistani Punjabis and has been so from its inception. In fact, its Punjabi
composition, along with its inflexible ideology, is precisely what made it so attractive to the ISI to
begin with, because it could be controlled and directed far more effectively by its Punjabidominated
sponsor, the Pakistan Army, than any local Kashmiri resistance group.* *Because of
LeT&#8217;s founding ties to Al-Qaeda, however, its Punjabi core has over the years been episodically
supplemented by Libyans, Central Asians, and Sudanese&#8212;although these non-Pakistani elements
have generally been marginal to the group&#8217;s numerical strength.*
It was only when the indigenous Kashmiri resistance began to flag in 1993 that the ISI directed
LeT, among other Pakistani terrorist groups, to shift its principal focus of operations from the
Afghan theater to Jammu and Kashmir. ISI objectives in engineering this shift were threefold:
First, it enabled the Pakistani military to replace what it saw as feckless local fighters pursuing the
autonomous goal of independence with militants who were battle-hardened in Afghanistan,
beholden to the Pakistani state, and dedicated to the more appropriate objective of incorporating
Kashmir into Pakistan. Second, it permitted the moderate Kashmiris to be replaced by genuinely
committed Wahabi fighters who were capable of inflicting (and intended to unleash) an
unprecedented level of brutality in their military operations because they shared no affinities
whatsoever with the local population. Third, and finally, it permitted Pakistan to pursue an
agenda larger than Kashmir: by employing ideologically charged Islamist foot soldiers from
outside the disputed state&#8212;a cohort that hailing from the Pakistani Punjab carried with it all of
Islamabad&#8217;s pent up animosities towards India&#8212;the local struggle over Kashmir&#8217;s status could be
expanded into a larger war aimed at destroying India itself.
Hafiz Saeed wholeheartedly endorsed the objective of destroying India writ large. Asserting in a
1999 interview that &#8220;jihad is not about Kashmir only,&#8221; he went on to declare that &#8220;about fifteen
years ago, people might have found it ridiculous if someone told them about the disintegration of
the USSR. Today,&#8221; he continued, &#8220;I announce the break-up of India, Inshaallah. We will not rest
until the whole [of] India is dissolved into Pakistan.&#8221;* In a later 2001 statement, he reaffirmed the
proposition that &#8220;our struggle will continue even if Kashmir is liberated. We still have to take
revenge for East Pakistan.&#8221;* *In accordance with his declaration that Kashmir was merely a
&#8220;gateway to capture India,&#8221; Saeed then directed his LeT cadres to focus their attention on
capturing the Muslim-dominated areas outside of Jammu and Kashmir, such as Hyderabad,*
4
*Junagadh, Munabao and West Bengal, which he argued were forcibly occupied by India in 1947.*
In the pursuit of these objectives, LeT received strong financial, material, and operational support
from the ISI&#8212;including from ISI field stations in Nepal, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh&#8212;because of
the growing conviction within the Pakistani military that the war against India could never be
won if the hostilities were to be confined only to Jammu and Kashmir.
*Judging from LeT&#8217;s operational record, Saeed has been as good as his word. Of all the terrorist
groups operating in the Himalayan state, none has been as brutal and vicious in its armed
operations as LeT, particularly as witnessed in its encounters with the Indian military. Moreover,
since 2005, LeT&#8217;s operations have expanded far beyond Jammu and Kashmir into the rest of
India. The LeT has been implicated in terrorist attacks in New Delhi in October 2005; in
Bangalore in December 2005; in Varanasi in March 2006; in Nagpur in June 2006; and in the July
2007 train bombings in Bombay&#8212;all before its most recent multiple atrocities in Bombay in
November 2008.*
*While India has occupied the lion&#8217;s share of LeT attention in recent years, the organization has
not by any means restricted itself to keeping only India in its sights. Like many other radical
Islamist groups, the LeT leadership has on numerous occasions singled out the Jewish
community and the United States as being among the natural enemies of Islam. Speaking frankly
to a journalist, Saeed warned, for example, that although his outfit was consumed at the moment
by the conflict with India, &#8220;Let&#8217;s see when the time comes. Our struggle with the Jews is always
there.&#8221; This enmity with the Jewish people is supposedly eternal and ordained by God himself.*
When Saeed was asked in the aftermath of the tragic 2005 earthquake in Pakistan whether then-
President Musharraf&#8217;s solicitation of aid from Israel was appropriate, he had no hesitation in
declaring forthrightly that &#8220;We should not solicit help from Israel. It is the question of Muslim
honor and self-respect. The Jews can never be our friends. This is stated by Allah.&#8221; This twisted
worldview found grotesque expression during the November 2006 LeT atrocities in Bombay
when the group deliberately targeted the Jewish Chabad center at Nariman House. Justifying this
attack as reprisal for Israeli security cooperation with India, the Jewish hostages at Nariman
House were not simply murdered but humiliated and brutally tortured before finally being killed
during the three day siege.
Since Israel and India are viewed as part of the detestable &#8220;Zionist-Hindu-Crusader&#8221; axis that
includes the United States, it is not surprising that LeT has long engaged in a variety of
subversive activities aimed at attacking American interests. Although the ideological denunciation
of the United States as an immoral, decadent, and implacable enemy of Islam was part of the
group&#8217;s worldview from its founding, its war against the United States took a decidedly deadly
turn after the Clinton administration launched missile attacks against several al-Qaeda camps in
Afghanistan in August 1998. Although these attacks did not kill Osama bin Laden, their intended
target, they did kill many LeT operatives and trainers who were bivouacked in these facilities.
Shortly thereafter, the LeT formally declared a jihad against the United States and began a variety
of operations globally aimed at targeting U.S. interests. Asserting unequivocally that LeT intends
to &#8220;plant the flag of Islam in Washington, Tel Aviv and New Delhi,&#8221; the group intensified its
collaboration with al-Qaeda, supporting bin Laden&#8217;s efforts as a junior partner wherever
necessary, while operating independently wherever possible. Within Southern Asia today, and
especially in Pakistan&#8217;s tribal belt, along its northwestern frontier, and in Afghanistan, LeT
cooperates with al-Qaeda and other militant groups, such as the Taliban, in the areas of
recruiting, training, tactical planning, financing, and operations. The senior al-Qaeda operative,
5*
Abu Zubaydah, for example, was captured in a LeT safe house in Faisalabad, Pakistan, indicating
the close ties existing between both terrorist organizations.
LeT&#8217;s universal ambitions, however, do not permit confining itself only to South Asia. After
declaring that it would provide free training to any Muslim desirous of joining the global jihad&#8212;a
promise that LeT has since made good on&#8212;the group&#8217;s operatives have been identified as
engaging in:*
_ liaison and networking with numerous terrorist groups all over the world but
especially in Central and Southeast Asia and the Middle East;
_ facilitation of terrorist acts, including in, but not restricted to, Chechnya and Iraq;
_ fundraising far and wide, including in the Middle East, Europe, Australia, and the
United States;
_ procurement of weapons, explosives, and communications equipment for terrorist
operations from both the international arms markets and Pakistani state
organizations such as the ISI;
_ recruitment of volunteers for suicidal missions in South Asia as well as the Middle
East;
_ creation of sleeper cells for executing or supporting future terrorist acts in Europe,
Australia, and likely the United States; and
_ actual armed combat at least in India, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq.
All told, Indian intelligence today estimates that LeT maintains some kind of terrorist presence in
twenty-one countries worldwide with the intention of either supporting or participating in what
Saeed has called the perpetual &#8220;jihad against the infidels.&#8221; *Viewed in this perspective, LeT&#8217;s
murder of the six American citizens during the November 2008 attacks in Bombay&#8212;a bloodbath
that claimed the lives of close to 200 people, including 26 foreigners of 15 nationalities&#8212;is
actually part of a larger war with the West and with liberal democracies more generally, and only
the latest in a long line of hostile activities&#8212;most of which have remained sub rosa&#8212;affecting
U.S. citizens, soldiers or interests.*
Unlike many of the other indigenous terrorist groups in South Asia whose command and control
structures are casual and often disorganized, LeT&#8217;s organizational structure is hierarchic and
precise, reflecting its purposefulness. Modeled on a military system, LeT is led by a core
leadership centered on the amir, Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, and his deputies, who oversee different
aspects of its functional and charitable operations. These activities are implemented through
various branch offices throughout Pakistan, which are responsible for recruitment and
fundraising as well as for the delivery of social services such as education, healthcare, emergency
services, and religious instruction. LeT&#8217;s military arm is led by a &#8220;supreme commander&#8221; and a
&#8220;deputy supreme commander&#8221; who report to Saeed directly. Under them are several &#8220;divisional
commanders&#8221; and their deputies. Within the South Asian region, the divisional commanders
oversee specific geographic &#8220;theaters&#8221; of operation, which are then subdivided in certain defined
districts. These are controlled by &#8220;district commanders,&#8221; each of whom is ultimately responsible
for various battalions and their subordinate formations.
*The entire command edifice thus reflects a model of &#8220;detailed control,&#8221; with orders being
executed at the lowest level only after they are authorized by a chain of authority reaching to the
top. This hierarchic command and control structure, although susceptible to decapitation in
6
principle, was nonetheless institutionalized because LeT owed its origins primarily to the
charismatic leadership of three individuals&#8212;of which Hafiz Saeed quickly become the primus inter
pares.* *A hierarchic structure was also particularly appropriate, given the covert activities carried
out by its military wing both autonomously and for the ISI&#8212;with the latter in particular insisting
on a combination of high effectiveness, unremitting brutality, durable control, and plausible
deniability, as the price for continued support*. Because LeT was from the very beginning a
preferred ward of the ISI, enjoying all the protection offered by the Pakistani state, the
vulnerability that traditionally afflicts all hierarchic terrorist groups was believed to be minimal in
this case.*
This judgment, it appears, turns out to be correct because even when Pakistan, under
considerable U.S. pressure, formally banned LeT as a terrorist organization in 2002, the LeT
leadership remained impregnable and impervious to all international political pressure. Not only
did it continue to receive succor from the ISI but its close links with the Pakistani state, which
continued in its every incarnation, have raised the understandable question of whether the 2008
terrorist strikes in Bombay were in fact authorized either tacitly or explicitly by someone in the
Pakistani secret services, as other attacks on India have been in the past. *Although neither India
nor the United States has provided specific evidence thus far of ISI or Pakistani military
authorization for the Bombay attacks&#8212;which, if available, would be fortuitous in any event,
given the usual incompleteness of all intelligence information&#8212;the question of whether these
murderous acts were sanctioned by elements within the Pakistani state is prima facie not absurd in
light of the ISI&#8217;s traditionally close relationship with LeT.
The attacks in Bombay also reflect the LeT&#8217;s classic modus operandi: Since 1999, the group has
utilized small but heavily armed and highly motivated two- to four-man squads operating
independently or in combination with others on suicidal&#8212;but not suicide&#8212;missions that are
intended to inflict the largest numbers of casualties during attacks on politically significant or
strategically symbolic sites. These missions invariably are complex and entail detailed tactical
planning; historically, they have taken the form of surprise raids aimed at heavily guarded facilities
such as Indian military installations, command headquarters, political institutions, or iconic
buildings, all intended to inflict the highest level of pain, underscore the vulnerability of the
Indian state, and embarrass the Indian government. *(In Afghanistan, in contrast, LeT operations
have focused principally on targeting coalition forces, disrupting reconstruction efforts, and
supporting other terrorist groups in their efforts to undermine the Karzai regime.)* In any event,
the LeT personnel involved in the majority of these attacks seek to escape the scene whenever
possible&#8212;in fact, they come carefully prepared to endure yet exfiltrate&#8212;but appear quite willing
to sacrifice themselves if necessary, if in the process they can take down a larger number of
bystanders, hostages, and security forces.
The targets attacked in Bombay are consistent with this pattern: they included the symbols of
Indian success (luxury hotels), reflections of Indian history and state presence (a historic railway
station) and emblems of India&#8217;s international relationships (a restaurant frequented by tourists
and a Jewish community center). The targeted killing of the Jewish residents at Nariman House,
and possibly the murder of the Western tourists at the Leopold Caf&#233; (if indeed they were
deliberately targeted), would also be consistent with LeT&#8217;s past record, which has included the
focused slaughter of non-Muslims such as Hindus and Sikhs. Although the use of small arms to
include pistols, automatic rifles, grenades, plastic explosives, and occasionally mortars have been
the norm in most past LeT attacks, the group has also undertaken true suicide missions, including
7
car bombings, on occasion.* In LeT&#8217;s operations in Afghanistan, where recruitment for suicide
bombings appears to be a specialty, the use of larger crew-served weapons, mines, mortars,
rocket-propelled grenades, and even primitive air defense systems have been observed.
These characteristics of LeT, which have been on display since the group first came into
existence in the late 1980s, have made it the object of focused attention within the U.S.
intelligence community.* Its worldwide operations, whether they be merely facilitation or
fundraising or more lethal activities such as planning, coordinating and executing armed attacks
either independently or in collusion with others, have marked LeT out as a genuine threat to
regional and global security. If the outfit had previously escaped the popular attention it received
after the atrocities in Bombay in 2008, it was only because its earlier attacks did not extend to
Western civilians and because its preferred combat tactics made it a lesser challenge to American
interests in comparison to al-Qaeda. *This, however, should not be reason for consolation: if left
unchecked and untargeted, LeT could well evolve into a truly formidable threat, given its
resourcefulness, its operational span, its evolving capabilities, and its relatively robust sanctuary
within Pakistan.*
A net assessment of LeT as a threat to regional and global security and to the American
homeland would, therefore, justify the following conclusions.
*First, LeT remains a terrorist organization of genuinely global reach.* Although the nature of its
presence and activities vary considerably by location, it has demonstrated the ability to grow roots
and sustain operations in countries far removed from Southern Asia, which remains its primary
theater of activity. *Equally important, it exhibits all the ideological animus, financial and material
capabilities, and perverse motivation and ruthlessness required to attack those it believes are its
natural enemies simply because they may be Jewish, Christian, or Hindu, and living in secular,
liberal democratic, states.* *Furthermore, like al-Qaeda, LeT has demonstrated a remarkable ability
to forge coalitions with like-minded terrorist groups. These alliances are most clearly on display
within Southern Asia: in India, for example, LeT has developed ties with Islamic extremists
across the country including in states distant from Pakistan such as Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh,
and Tamil Nadu; in Pakistan, LeT cooperates actively with the Pakistani and Afghan Taliban and
coordinates operations with Al-Qaeda and the Haqqani network against Afghanistan; in Central
Asia, LeT has cooperated with both the Islamic Movement of Uzkekistan and local Islamist
rebels in the Caucasus; and, in Europe, LeT was actively involved in supporting the Muslim
resistance in Bosnia while raising funds and building sleeper cells in countries such as Spain and
Germany.*
When viewed from the perspective of the United States, it is safe to say that LeT has long
undermined U.S. interests in the global war on terror. It threatens U.S. soldiers and civilians in
Afghanistan and has now killed U.S. citizens in Bombay. Thus far, however, it has not mounted
any direct attacks on the American homeland, but that is not for want of motivation: given the
juicier and far more vulnerable U.S. targets in Southern Asia, LeT has simply found it more
convenient to attack these (and U.S. allies) in situ rather than overextend itself in reaching out to
the continental United States. The effectiveness of U.S. law enforcement after September 11,
2001, and the deterrent power of U.S. military capabilities have had much to do with reinforcing
this calculus. Consequently, LeT operations in the United States thus far have focused mainly on
recruitment, fundraising and procurement rather than on lethal operations. Yet, with the
deliberate killing of American citizens in Bombay, a new line has been crossed. If Washington
8
fails to respond to this provocation, the door could be opened to a repetition of more such
incidents in the future. The inability or unwillingness to punish LeT for these transgressions, as
the United States and Israel have done against other terrorist groups, could also embolden this
outfit to attack American citizens and American interests with greater impunity the next time
around.
Second, India has unfortunately become the &#8220;sponge&#8221; that protects us all. India&#8217;s very proximity
to Pakistan, which has developed into the epicenter of global terrorism during the last thirty
years, has resulted in New Delhi absorbing most of the blows unleashed by those terrorist groups
that treat it as a common enemy along with Israel, the United States, and the West more
generally. To the chagrin of its citizens, India has also turned out to be a terribly soft state neither
able to prevent many of the terrorist acts that have confronted it over the years nor capable of
retaliating effectively against either its terrorist adversaries or their state sponsors in Pakistan. *The
existence of unresolved problems, such as the dispute over Jammu and Kashmir, has also
provided both Pakistani institutions and their terrorist clients with the excuses necessary to bleed
India to &#8220;death by a thousand cuts.&#8221; But these unsettled disputes remain only excuses: not that
they should not be addressed by New Delhi seriously and with alacrity, there is no assurance that
a satisfactory resolution of these problems will conclusively eliminate the threat of terrorism
facing India and the West more generally.*
This is because the most vicious entities now engaged in attacks on India, like LeT, have
objectives that go way beyond Kashmir itself. Rather, they seek to destroy what is perhaps the
most successful example of a thriving democracy in the non-Western world, one that has
prospered despite the presence of crushing poverty, incredible diversity, and a relatively short
history of self-rule. India&#8217;s existence as a secular and liberal democratic state that protects political
rights and personal freedoms&#8212;despite all its failures and imperfections&#8212;thus remains a threat to
groups such as LeT, with their narrow, blighted, and destructive worldviews, as well as to
praetorian, anti-democratic, institutions such as the Pakistan Army and the ISI. India,
accordingly, becomes an attractive target, while its mistakes, inadequacies, and missteps only
exacerbate the opportunities for violence directed at its citizenry.
Yet it would be a gross error to treat the terrorism facing India&#8212;including the terrible recent
atrocities&#8212;as simply a problem for New Delhi alone. In a very real sense, the outrage in Bombay
was fundamentally a species of global terrorism not merely because the assailants happened to
believe in an obscurantist brand of Islam but, more importantly, because killing Indians turned
out to be simply interchangeable with killing citizens of some fifteen different nationalities for no
apparent reason whatsoever. If the United States fails to recognize that the struggle against
terrorism ought to be indivisible because Indian security is as important to New Delhi as
American security is to Washington, future Indian governments could choose to respond to the
problems posed by Pakistani groups such as LeT in ways that may undermine regional security
and make the U.S. effort to transform Pakistan more difficult than it already it. Avoiding these
sub-optimal outcomes requires the Obama administration to treat Indian concerns about
terrorism more seriously than the United States has done thus far.
Third, the most vicious terrorist groups in Southern Asia, such as al-Qaeda, LeT, the Pakistani
Tehrik-e-Taliban, Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM), and the Harkat-ul-Mujahideen (HuM), are driven
largely by a radical Islamist agenda rather than by any negotiable grievances, yet remain highly
adaptable with respect to the lethal tactics chosen to achieve their goals. This reality makes such
9
terrorists formidable adversaries and a successful anti-terrorism policy must be able to cope with
both their obdurate aims and their changing techniques. *The only reasonable objective for the
United States in this context must be the permanent evisceration of these groups&#8212;especially al-
Qaeda and LeT, which threaten American interests directly&#8212;with Pakistani cooperation if
possible, but without it if necessary. This is particularly so because the unacceptable nature of
their ambitions alone should rule out any consideration of policies centered on conciliation or
compromise. **It should also make Washington suspicious of any theory of terrorism that justifies
its precipitation by so-called &#8220;root causes,&#8221; especially in South Asia&#8212;and saying so does not in
any way obviate the need for resolving existing intra- and inter-state disputes so long as these are
pursued through peaceful means.* Where the forms of violence are concerned, the evidence
suggests that the uncompromising ideological motivations that often drive terrorism in the Indian
subcontinent coexist quite comfortably with the presence of effective instrumental rationality,
even if this is only oriented towards sinister purposes. As the attacks in Bombay demonstrated,
even ideologically charged terrorist groups such as LeT are capable of meticulous planning and
strategic adaptability. Terrorists learn and change their tactics to outwit their state opponents:
because Indian intelligence agencies successfully broke up several terrorist modules in recent
years&#8212;groups that intended to transport explosives and conduct bombings by land&#8212;the LeT
resorted to an unexpected course of action that involved arrival by sea and the use of trained and
motivated attackers with relatively unsophisticated weapons to inflict a great deal of damage.
There is little doubt that other terrorists will learn from Bombay and could attempt to emulate
LeT&#8217;s actions. If LeT itself seeks to attack the U.S. homeland, it could well choose to replicate its
experience in Bombay using sleepers, possibly already resident in the country. Whether it does so
or not, the important point is that the successes of U.S. intelligence and law enforcement
agencies in neutralizing more complex kinds of attacks could well push various ideologically
hostile terrorist groups to seek simpler solutions, using capabilities at hand or readily available, to
attack U.S. citizens in unanticipated ways abroad or at home. LeT is one such group that certainly
possesses the motivation to conduct such attacks on American soil if the opportunities arise and
if the cost-benefit calculus shifts in favor of such assaults.
As a recent RAND study I participated in points out,
The Mumbai attack demonstrates that jihadist organizations based in Pakistan are able to
plan and launch ambitious terrorist operations, at least in neighboring countries such as
India. Put in the context of previous terrorist attacks in India by Pakistani-based or local
jihadist groups, it suggests a continuing, perhaps escalating, terrorist campaign in South
Asia. Beyond India, the Mumbai attack reveals a strategic terrorist culture that
thoughtfully identified strategic goals and ways to achieve them and that analyzed
counterterrorist measures and developed ways to obviate them to produce a 9/11-quality
attack. For 60 hours, the terrorists brought a city of 20 million people to a standstill while
the world looked on. The attack put into actual practice LeT&#8217;s previous rhetoric about
making the Kashmir dispute part of the international jihad. In so doing, LeT has
emerged, not as a subsidiary of al-Qaeda, but as an independent constellation in the
global jihad galaxy. Indeed, with al-Qaeda central operational capabilities reduced, the
Mumbai attack makes LeT a global contender on its own.
&#8212;Angel Rabasa et al, The Lessons of Mumbai (Santa Monica: The RAND Corporation,
2009, pp. 7-8.)
10
Dealing with this emerging LeT threat will require a mixture of unilateral actions and
international cooperation. While U.S. law enforcement agencies are certainly seized of the
challenges posed by LeT, and will develop responses aimed at preventing attacks whenever
possible, responding to dangers whenever necessary, and managing their consequences whenever
required, the most pressing political requirement right now is to collaborate with India and
Pakistan in bringing the perpetrators of the Bombay bloodbath to justice. *After an embarrassingly
inept initial response by Islamabad, the Zardari government, acceding to intense U.S. pressure
during the last days of the Bush administration, arrested key LeT ringleaders and offered to bring
them to trial in Pakistan in lieu of extraditing them to India or the United States. The Obama
administration should keep Pakistan&#8217;s feet to the fire and ensure that Islamabad makes good on
its promises. **Given the long and bloody record of the individuals apprehended, any trial, whether
in Pakistan or elsewhere, should seek capital punishment for the detainees. Neither permanent
incarceration nor limited jail terms would prevent them from orchestrating further attacks from
inside their prison cells. The experience of previous Pakistani detentions demonstrates that
terrorists, even when in custody, can mount very effective cross-border operations with the aid of
collaborators still at large.*
*But Washington should also demand more of Islamabad: Precisely because LeT threatens to
become a significant global terrorist threat, the United States should insist that Islamabad roll up
and eliminate the entire LeT infrastructure of terrorism that currently exists inside of Pakistan.*
*Such an action not only holds the best promise of arresting the current crisis in Indo-Pakistani
relations&#8212;one whose final d&#233;nouement has yet to occur and whose worst consequences could
undermine both regional stability and the counterterrorism operations currently occurring in
Pakistan&#8217;s tribal belt and in Afghanistan&#8212;but it also remains the only guarantee of decisively
eliminating LeT as a potentially serious threat to the U.S. homeland. Given the ISI&#8217;s long history
of support for LeT, the Pakistani state will require all the assistance it can get if it is to genuinely
eradicate the diverse infrastructure of terrorism maintained by LeT&#8217;s current front organization,
the Jamat-ud Dawa (JuD). The United States should not stint in providing Pakistan with this aid,
if Islamabad is judged to be serious about confronting LeT and other terrorist groups.* *That
Pakistan should eliminate these threats in its own interest goes without saying. **But, in any event,
Washington should no longer compromise on this objective. Working with both the civilian
government of President Zardari, which despite all its limitations still recognizes the threats
posed by Pakistan&#8217;s terrorist groups and desires to eliminate them, and with the Pakistan Army,
which despite its growing recognition of the perils posed by Islamist terrorist groups still seeks to
hold on to them as &#8220;strategic assets,&#8221; the Obama administration should, using both carrots and
sticks, induce Pakistan to comprehensively eliminate the LeT.* *If despite American insistence and
aid, Islamabad remains unable or unwilling, the U.S. government should utilize the entire range of
unilateral instruments available to neutralize this threat. After all, it would be a great pity and
possibly even a dereliction of duty if amidst all the consolation and support offered to India in
the aftermath of the Bombay attacks, Washington finally failed to perceive&#8212;and neutralize&#8212;the
larger dangers posed by LeT&#8217;s ambitions towards the United States.*
*In this context, the expansion of U.S.&#8211;Indian counterterrorism cooperation is also urgently
needed.* Unfortunately, the record thus far suggests that the bilateral partnership has not lived up
to its promise in this issue-area. During the last years of the Clinton administration, the dialogue
on counterterrorism followed a meaningful course of great utility to both countries.
Unfortunately, this progress was not sustained during the Bush years. This is particularly ironic
both because the U.S.&#8211;Indian relationship was fundamentally transformed during this period and
11
because countering terrorism dominated the Bush presidency in an unprecedented way. Yet,
counterterrorism cooperation between the United States and India for most of the last eight years
has been largely formulaic, superficial, and at best exploratory. Although many practical initiatives
were initiated under the aegis of the U.S.&#8211;India Counterterrorism Joint Working Group, it would
be hard to conclude that this cooperation has actually yielded meaningful dividends for both
sides.
*The exception to this general rule, however, has been the partnership between U.S. and Indian
law enforcement agencies in the aftermath of the Bombay attacks. After the tragic events of
November 26 &#8211; 29, 2008, the assistance rendered by the FBI and other U.S. agencies to India has
simply been phenomenal.* *Despite the initial hiccups that impeded smooth cooperation, the
resources, technology, and professionalism of the U.S. team deployed to Bombay has evoked the
gratitude, admiration, and even the envy of their Indian counterparts. **Plainly stated, it would
simply not have been possible for the government of India to assemble the enormous amount of
technical evidence pertaining to the attacks, which has since been shared with the international
community, without American assistance.* *But against the backdrop of the last eight years, the
intense cooperation witnessed between the United States and India after Bombay must be
counted as the exception, not the rule.*
The surprising disjuncture on counterterrorism, despite the overall transformation of the bilateral
relationship, can be explained in one word: Pakistan. The disagreement between Washington and
New Delhi in regards to Pakistan essentially hampered the prospects for expanded
counterterrorism cooperation. *This divergence on Pakistan was not rooted primarily in a
difference of diagnosis: both sides agreed that Pakistan was the global epicenter of terrorism and
had to be reformed. They could not agree, however, on the best strategies for achieving this
objective.** The United States, thanks to its crushing dependence on Islamabad for sustaining the
military operations against al-Qaeda and in Afghanistan, defended a strategy of unconditional
engagement with Pakistan. In contrast, India, though strongly supportive of U.S. military
operations in Afghanistan, argued for a tougher policy of carrots and sticks as a means of
mitigating the continuing threat emanating from Pakistani terrorism.*
*This divergence of perspectives, far from being academic, had practical consequences. The U.S.
reluctance to confront Pakistan forthrightly about its terrorism against India&#8212;despite all its
sympathies for New Delhi&#8212;resulted in most American counterterrorism cooperation being
focused on coping with, or defending against, Pakistani threats, whereas successive Indian
governments were more interested in exploring what Washington would do to eliminate the
terrorism exported out of Pakistan.* This fundamental incompatibility of objectives made Indian
intelligence, law enforcement, and counterterrorism agencies&#8212;not to mention the government of
India writ large&#8212;rather skeptical about the prospects for successful counterterrorism cooperation
with the United States. Because U.S. programs in this regard were invariably viewed more as
palliatives intended to manage the pain rather than as frontal attacks on the heart of the problem
itself, Indian enthusiasm for deep counterterrorism cooperation with Washington was rather
tepid.* The Bush administration&#8217;s failure to confront Pakistan about its continued abetting of
terrorism against India (and against Afghanistan), despite eight years of significant assistance to
Islamabad, then produced an unfortunate double failure: it neither eradicated Pakistan&#8217;s addiction
to terrorism nor institutionalized deepened counterterrorism cooperation with India.*
*The growing disenchantment in the United States with Pakistan&#8217;s performance in the war on
terror and President Obama&#8217;s determination to correct the trajectory of the U.S.&#8211;Pakistan
12
bilateral relationship offers Washington a new opportunity to rectify the shortcomings that
traditionally afflicted U.S.&#8211;Indian counterterrorism cooperation. **The stellar collaboration
exhibited by both sides in the aftermath of the Bombay attacks yields only a glimpse of what is
actually possible if the two countries can arrive at a common strategic understanding of their
problems regarding terrorism. **If such a convergence can be promoted through a serious, highlevel,
dialogue on Pakistan&#8212;again, something that never really occurred during the entire
duration of the second Bush term&#8212;it might be possible to embark on three specific initiatives
that could produce high payoffs in terms of helping India (as well as the United States) better
cope with the scourge of terrorism.
These initiatives include: comprehensive intelligence sharing about specific terrorist groups (an
area where India has much to offer, given its collection capabilities and its proximity to the
threats, and where the United States, given its extraordinary technical capacity, can make
enormous contributions as well to mutual advantage); training of the law enforcement and
intelligence communities, particularly in the realms of forensics, border security, and special
weapons and tactics (areas where India would particularly profit, with collateral benefits to the
United States); and, improving intelligence fusion and organizational coordination (again, areas
where India could learn much from the U.S. experience after September 11, first to its own
advantage and thereafter to the United States). Since these activities traverse areas of great
sensitivity to any sovereign state, it is unlikely that any meaningful bilateral cooperation will take
place unless there is close and steady direction from the very top of the governments in both
counties. The task ahead of us in this regard is enormous&#8212;and our work has only just begun.*
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members of the Committee for your attention and your kind
consideration.

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## pama

blain2 said:


> The issue is not where the attacks are coming from, rather who planned it. There is no state sponsorship of Kasab and co. from ISI or any other state entity. Lets be very clear about it.



what is Pakistan establishment doing in curtailing them?
why there is blind eye on them?
there marine camando and ground commando activities shows level on training infrastructure existing in Pakistan for these terrorists.


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## dabong1

Pakistan will train and fund the kashmiris until kashmir is free or india and pak come to some sort of fudge over the issue......its never ever going to go away no matter you want it to.
The entire world knows that the kashmiris want to be free of indian occupation and thats why there is never a big issue when kashmiris freedom fighters attack indian occoupation forces.


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## dabong1

pama said:


> what is Pakistan establishment doing in curtailing them?
> why there is blind eye on them?
> there marine camando and ground commando activities shows level on training infrastructure existing in Pakistan for these terrorists.



Which will carry on until you come to the table......the only time you will get pak govt acting against the freedom fighters is if the start to target civilians on purpose like mumbai.

Kahmir first the peace will follow otherwise its another half century of fighting.


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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Mumbai attackers 'creations of ISI': Menon

interesting.
For the record, India has never interfered in any there country, or ever tried to destabilize it directly or otherwise. The Raw's exclusive function is to analyze & forecast. They have never indulged in anything beyond that.


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## Al-zakir

ISI behind Mumbai attacks: India

submitted 18 hours 24 minutes ago

India has for the first time directly accused Pakistan's powerful military intelligence agency -- the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) -- of involvement in last year's Mumbai attacks. "The perpetrators planned, trained and launched their attacks from Pakistan, and the organisers were and remain clients and creations of the ISI," Foreign Secretary Shivshankar Menon said in a speech in Paris on Thursday that was picked up by the Indian media. In January, India handed Pakistan what it said was evidence linking "elements" in Pakistan to the November attacks on India's financial capital, in which 10 gunmen killed 165 people during a 60-hour siege. New Delhi has blamed the attacks on the banned militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which is active in Indian-ruled Kashmir, but the Pakistan-based organisation has denied responsibility. Earlier this week Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani assured India that his government would hand over the results of its own investigation into the attacks soon. Pakistan has confirmed that the lone surviving Mumbai gunman, now in Indian custody, is one of its citizens. But it has insisted that the attackers were "non-state actors." India had previously blamed the ISI for a suicide attack on its embassy in Kabul last July, in which 60 people including India's military attache and a diplomat were killed. Menon said India had long suffered from "terrorist organisations, their support structures, official sponsors and funding mechanisms, which transcend national borders but operate within them." He also blasted foreign arms sales to Pakistan in the name of fighting terrorism, saying it was like selling "whisky to an alcoholic." Such transactions damage the "internal political balance, making the consolidation of democracy more difficult," he added.

So now What?????

ISI behind Mumbai attacks: India | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online


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## ajpirzada

@Al-Zakir
*now wat?*
now nothing. we dont really care about wat they say. they were waitin for the world to say that but finally they couldnt wait anymore and said it themselves.... if we start givin $hit about wat india say then our lif will become miserable so its better to let them say wat they want to say

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Energon said:


> but he was recruited, trained and deployed by one of the institutions created by the state's agencies not too long ago, with the primary objective of conducting low intensity/subversive/proxy warfare and terrorism against India. Let's first and foremost be very, very clear on this point.



"With the primary objective of conducting low intensity/subversive/proxy warfare", yes - but terrorism, which I am defining as attacks against non-governmental civilians, absolutely not, never was, and never will be.

*Let's first and foremost be very, very clear* *on this point*.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

*FO says India unleashing smear campaign against Pakistan*​
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan said on Friday that India is showing &#8216;blatant hostility&#8217; against Islamabad and unleashing a smear campaign to tarnish its image. &#8220;It is yet another manifestation of undisguised hostility and a global smear campaign being conducted by India against Pakistan,&#8221; said FO spokesman Abdul Basit while replying to a question on a recent comment by the Indian foreign secretary in Paris. &#8220;Pakistan rejects the allegations, as these are far from reality and patently mala fide,&#8221; he said, adding that India&#8217;s remarks were also inconsistent with the established norms of diplomatic parlance and were at sharp variance with the restraint and responsibility demonstrated by Pakistan. The spokesman said Pakistan wanted to defuse tensions in South Asia, and it had offered its cooperation in the investigation into the Mumbai terror attacks. &#8220;We intend to continue to demonstrate restraint.&#8221; staff report
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

> In fact there is a very detailed analysis (I haven't seen it published as open source so I won't elaborate upon it in detail) as to how and what distinguishes these attackers from your run of the mill gun toting grenade blasting terrorist that are now dime a dozen in Pakistan. Furthermore the complexity and the institutional capabilities required to raise Fidayeen cadres is another thing you're overlooking in your simplistic explanation as to what the Indians found amazing about these particular assailants.



On the contrary, the GoI is resorting to some absurd arguments to justify 'institutional involvement', of some sort. The ability for militant groups to reach not just the level of sophistication seen in Mumbai, but far greater, in terms of training, tactics, fixed defenses, communications etc., is more than evident in FATA/Swat as already explained. 

That you and the GoI leadership continue to beat this dead horse and cling to this analysis indicates an extreme paucity of thinking, or as argued by Pakistan above, a deliberate smear campaign. My bet is on the latter.

The fact remains that other than 'they were highly sophisticated', which, again, is an argument that can be made even better about a dozen Taliban groups fighting the PA, you and the GoI have offered absolutely nothing to back up this inane argument, and all of your 'long post' essentially reiterated the same thing. And as far as I know, Pakistan does not manufacture 'Universal Soldiers' with 'characteristics'.

A little critical thinking on your part when being fed this hogwash by these 'GoI officials' would probably not have hurt.


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## pama

dabong1 said:


> Which will carry on until you come to the table......the only time you will get pak govt acting against the freedom fighters is if the start to target civilians on purpose like mumbai.
> 
> Kahmir first the peace will follow otherwise its another half century of fighting.



There you are so you seems to agree this attacks has Kashmir in background.
Your leaders say talks must for resolution and use these attacks to raise this issue.

we will not come until Pak stops sponsoring terrorists in Kashmir.


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## pama

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> "With the primary objective of conducting low intensity/subversive/proxy warfare", yes - but terrorism, which I am defining as attacks against non-governmental civilians, absolutely not, never was, and never will be.
> 
> *Let's first and foremost be very, very clear* *on this point*.



But these terrorists attaks are from Pakistan and that what all intellegence through out world suggest do you disagree?


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## anand

What exactly Indian foreign secretary was try to say by this...

The perpetrators planned, trained and launched their attacks from Pakistan, and *the organisers were and remain clients and creations of the ISI*"

The organiser *WERE* clients of ISI i.e. ISI trained them in past. Am i Correct or is he saying ISI trained them to carry out Mumbai attack ?
Is'nt it true ISI trained militants to carry out operations in Kashmir ?


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## EagleEyes

Flintlock said:


> You still want to deny that the ISI trains and equips militants?



Freedom fighters. Yes, but not anymore. Stop the Indian state terrorism and things will get better.


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## EagleEyes

pama said:


> There you are so you seems to agree this attacks has Kashmir in background.
> Your leaders say talks must for resolution and use these attacks to raise this issue.
> 
> we will not come until Pak stops sponsoring terrorists in Kashmir.



Who are you to judge? From my understanding if you pull out your state terrorist force, relations will get better.

Refer to my above post for details.


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## pama

WebMaster said:


> Who are you to judge? From my understanding if you pull out your state terrorist force, relations will get better.
> 
> Refer to my above post for details.



Only state terrorists force is with ISI
that's what went into afghan in Zia time.
Now there are having devils dance on FATA you seems to forget history


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## duhastmish

Sir,

I Recently heard there was a link between ULFA and ISI,DGFI. if thats true that ISI have got such deep hands in terrorism in most part of india. then Mumbai attack are nothing. What does i.s.i get out of it. i am unable to understand. And how incompetent is RAW. they are not getting a single blame they must be really bad player in such sort of attack on enemy country. But as for ISI they are loosing their name and respect to world as its not easy to hide such acts.


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## was

sick of this indian isi fobia,i hope isi will cause more pain in these pathetic indians *****


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## dabong1

pama said:


> There you are so you seems to agree this attacks has Kashmir in background..



No......more then likely its RAW recruits from FATA.




pama said:


> Your leaders say talks must for resolution and use these attacks to raise this issue.
> we will not come until Pak stops sponsoring terrorists in Kashmir.



And we will not stop supporting them until the last of the indian terrorist forces are kicked out of kashmir.


----------



## asq

srijeesh said:


> ok, since you come across as a moderate and a sensible person, lets discuss in a fair and frank way.
> as soon as the 'mumbai' happened india had indications that this was outside job, specifically pakistan. even then, india didnt directly accuse pakistan or its govt. it only said that some 'elements' within pakistan might be responsible. this is similar to line by your prez about 'non-state actors'.
> then india asked/requested that ISI chief be sent to india for joint investigation. pakistan agreed.
> but backtracked later. this was the first jolt to pakistan's credibility. if pakistan had sent the ISI chief then indian govt would have been more than happy to give all the evidence even before asked. then, media(indian and pakistani) was reporting that qasab was a pakistan and his father accepted that fact before camera. but GOP refused to accept it. qasab wrote to pak consulate in india for legal help, but pakistan declined help saying that qasab is not a pakistani. when durrani accepted that qasab is a pakistani on a channel, he was sacked.
> all this has lead to grave suspicions about the intentions of pakistani establishment. zardari has asked for foreign help in investigating BB's assasination, why was the investigation not done by you agencies. obviously, they are not trusted. when you dont trust them, how do you expect others to do so?
> as for the tone of indian politicians, you have to sympathise with our plight. we were still smarting under an attack of such brutality. even, then india showed great restraint and has asked your govt to complete the investigation and give it a report.
> 
> wat did US do, when it was attacked similarly in 9/11? compare it with indian reaction.



Hold your horses SriJeesh. there will be an eye opening report by Zardari sometimes in few days. and the report will open your eyes, so stop the blame game and tune your ears and listen carefully.

It will be proved who is the nasty one. It somehow has been in each case in previous instances, Indians game is to blame Pakistan and delay to provide the facts so that Pakistan is blamed. But that is not how the world works.

When India starts its investigation, it always had its villains inside and were all inside jobs.


----------



## Awesome

Solomon2 said:


> Even if they are successfully prosecuted in Pakistan, won't they be hailed as heroes for killing Indians, Westerners, and Israelis?


What flavor of crazy do you take us for?

We don't like murderers as much as anyone else. Our mandate for a fight with India is limited to Kashmir, all places within India are off-limits.


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## asq

Like to delete this, but is not working as it somehow doubled the massage.


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## asq

Asim Aquil said:


> What flavor of crazy do you take us for?
> 
> We don't like murderers as much as anyone else. Our mandate for a fight with India is limited to Kashmir, all places within India are off-limits.



u R so right Asim. People should remember how many wars have taken place in this world and who were the one fighting and hwo many innocents killed and are bieng killed today. check following report.

Iraq's Shocking Human Toll: About 1 Million Killed, 4.5 Million Displaced, 1-2 Million Widows, 5 Million Orphans

By John Tirman, The Nation. Posted February 2, 2009.

Now that Bush is gone, perhaps we can honestly face the damage we have wrought and the responsibilities we must accept from 

We are now able to estimate the number of Iraqis who have died in the war instigated by the Bush administration. Looking at the empirical evidence of Bush's war legacy will put his claims of victory in perspective. Of course, even by his standards -- "stability" -- the jury is out. Most independent analysts would say it's too soon to judge the political outcome. Nearly six years after the invasion, the country remains riven by sectarian politics and major unresolved issues, like the status of Kirkuk.

We have a better grasp of the human costs of the war. For example, the United Nations estimates that there are about 4.5 million displaced Iraqis -- more than half of them refugees -- or about one in every six citizens. Only 5 percent have chosen to return to their homes over the past year, a period of reduced violence from the high levels of 2005-07. The availability of healthcare, clean water, functioning schools, jobs and so forth remains elusive. According to Unicef, many provinces report that less than 40 percent of households have access to clean water. More than 40 percent of children in Basra, and more than 70 percent in Baghdad, cannot attend school.

The mortality caused by the war is also high. Several household surveys were conducted between 2004 and 2007. While there are differences among them, the range suggests a congruence of estimates. But none have been conducted for eighteen months, and the two most reliable surveys were completed in mid-2006. The higher of those found 650,000 "excess deaths" (mortality attributable to war); the other yielded 400,000. The war remained ferocious for twelve to fifteen months after those surveys were finished and then began to subside. Iraq Body Count, a London NGO that uses English-language press reports from Iraq to count civilian deaths, provides a means to update the 2006 estimates. While it is known to be an undercount, because press reports are incomplete and Baghdad-centric, IBC nonetheless provides useful trends, which are striking. Its estimates are nearing 100,000, more than double its June 2006 figure of 45,000. (It does not count nonviolent excess deaths -- from health emergencies, for example -- or insurgent deaths.) If this is an acceptable marker, a plausible estimate of total deaths can be calculated by doubling the totals of the 2006 household surveys, which used a much more reliable and sophisticated method for estimates that draws on long experience in epidemiology. So we have, at present, between 800,000 and 1.3 million "excess deaths" as we approach the six-year anniversary of this war.

This gruesome figure makes sense when reading of claims by Iraqi officials that there are 1-2 million war widows and 5 million orphans. This constitutes direct empirical evidence of total excess mortality and indirect, though confirming, evidence of the displaced and the bereaved and of general insecurity. The overall figures are stunning: 4.5 million displaced, 1-2 million widows, 5 million orphans, about 1 million dead -- in one way or another, affecting nearly one in two Iraqis.

By any sensible measure, it would be difficult to describe this as a victory of any kind. It speaks volumes about the repair work we must do for Iraqis, and it should caution us against the savage wars we are prone to. Now that Bush is gone, perhaps the United States can honestly face the damage we have brought and the responsibilities we must accept from it.


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## Energon

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> "With the primary objective of conducting low intensity/subversive/proxy warfare", yes - but terrorism, which I am defining as attacks against non-governmental civilians, absolutely not, never was, and never will be.
> 
> *Let's first and foremost be very, very clear* *on this point*.


 Evidence in the form of *Reality* clearly indicates to the contrary; so no, not buying this. Any further arguments based on this faulty premise are non starters.


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## Dilli

Pak may file cases against 5 over Mumbai attack 

NDTV.com: Pak may file cases against 5 over Mumbai attack

Pakistan on Sunday said it will examine the findings of its probe into 26/11 on Monday as the media in Islamabad reported that the government will file cases against five Pakistanis, including lone captured terrorist Ajmal Amir Qasab, for planning the Mumbai attacks. 

*The interior ministry's report also states that the attacks were planned not in Pakistan or India but in a European country, Geo News channel quoted sources as saying. **The conspirators kept in touch by using the internet, the sources said. *{Just like us guys}

*The sources also said that cases would be filed against five Pakistanis, including Qasab, the lone attacker arrested by Indian authorities, for planning the Mumbai attacks.* Action will be taken against them in the country according to Pakistani laws and access to Qasab will be sought to identify his Indian 'associates', the sources said. 

The Pakistan government has not formally stated so far whether it will seek consular access to Qasab *though it has acknowledged that he is a Pakistani national. *

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Sunday said the government will finalise its response to the Indian dossier after the report is presented on Monday.

________________________________________________________________

So after sea, Bangladesh, and non-state actors, it is the internet with no defined boundaries. Very intelligent of them indeed.


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## ejaz007

*DCC meeting to discuss Mumbai probe report today *

By Sajjad Malik 

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani will preside over a meeting of the Defence Committee of the Cabinet (DCC) today to finalise an investigation report into the Mumbai terror attacks. 

The report  prepared by a special investigation commission  has already been cleared by the Interior Ministry, the Law Ministry and the Foreign Affairs Ministry. 

Sources said the prime minister had already been briefed on the findings of the report, and at the DCC meeting, he would give his final approval to share the details with India and the international community. 

*According to a private TV channel, the report says that the Mumbai attacks were not planned in Pakistan or India and puts the source outside Pakistan. The channel quoted its sources that according to the document, the attacks were planned in a European country and the Internet was also used in organising the attacks. *

*The sources said that a case would be filed against five Pakistanis  including Ajmal Kasab, the lone gunman arrested after the attacks  and action would be taken against those found guilty in line with the law of the land. The sources also told the channel that a demand for access to or extradition of Kasab would be made, in a bid to identify his Indian accomplices. *

A DCC meeting on December 8 renewed Pakistans offer of cooperation with India  including intelligence sharing, assistance in investigations and the establishment of a joint investigative commission to track down perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks. 

Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar, Defence Production Minister Abdul Qayyum Khan Jatoi, Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi, Information Minister Sherry Rehman, Adviser to the Prime Minister on Finance Shaukat Tareen, Interior Adviser Rehman Malik, Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee Chairman General Tariq Majid, Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Kayani, Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Noman Bashir and Chief of Air Staff Tanvir Mehmood Ahmad are scheduled to attend the meeting.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## Neo

*Internal hand involved in Mumbai attacks​*
** Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Singh Modi criticises ruling Congress for not taking action against any local group​*
NAGPUR: *Indian Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Singh Modi hinted on Sunday that the Mumbai terror attacks could not have been carried out without internal help*  comments that are in sharp contrast with claims by other Indian officials who hold Pakistan solely responsible for the attacks.

The senior Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) leader said, If we single out that one incident (Mumbai attacks) and ask any person in this country ... with basic information and knowledge, they will say that *such a big terror attack on India cannot take place without any internal help from the nation itself.*

Criticism: He criticised the Congress-led coalition government for not taking action against any local groups involved in the Mumbai attacks.

Modis new theory contradicts Indias official position, and came just hours ahead of Pakistans reply to an Indian dossier of information given to Islamabad.

Addressing a BJP convention here, the Gujarat chief minister also slammed the policies of the ruling Congress party.

According to Hindustan times, Modi also made a scathing attack on the Gandhi-Nehru family, alleging that a conspiracy had been hatched to promote the family, posing a danger to the future of the country.

A conspiracy to promote one familys past is posing a danger for the future of the country, Modi said without directly naming the Gandhi-Nehru family, but the indication was obvious. online/daily times monitor


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## asq

khoob Geo Neo. lambi umar ho.


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## Captain03

NDTV?
yea good source genious


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## AliFarooq

for him it is lol


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## Flintlock

*Pakistan must punish perpetrators of Mumbai terror: US experts (Lead)*
February 10th, 2009 - 2:19 pm ICT by IANS - Send to a friend:

Washington, Feb 10 (IANS)_* Pakistan must punish those involved in the Mumbai massacre while undercutting extremist propaganda that lays the groundwork for such incidents, say two US experts, even while advising India to address the shortfalls in its homeland security.*_

They have also suggested that India and the US should pursue a robust dialogue to share counter-terrorism strategies in the wake of Mumbai terror attack blamed on Pakistan based terrorist outfit Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT).

Much like the effects of 9/11 on the US, the Mumbai attacks have catalysed Indian efforts to adopt a more integrated and structured approach to homeland security, said Lisa Curtis and Jena Baker McNeill of the Heritage Foundation in a commentary.

Curtis is senior research fellow for South Asia in the Asian Studies Centre, and Jena Baker McNeill is policy analyst for Homeland Security in the Douglas and Sarah Allison Centre for Foreign Policy Studies at the conservative think tank.

The US and India alike should recognise the value of their shared experiences in the war on terrorism, they said, noting:* One of the most important aspects of terrorism prevention is undercutting the terrorists support base while denying terrorists access to money, training, and weapons.*

Additionally, counter-terrorism measures must disrupt terrorists ability to propagate their message, recruit new members, and network with cohorts and other supporters, Curtis and McNeill said.

Therefore, the most important measures that can be taken to prevent another Mumbai-like attack anywhere in the world is for Pakistan to *punish those involved in the inspiration, planning, training, and equipping of the terrorists while proactively undercutting the extremist propaganda that led to the Mumbai massacre,* the experts said.
*
Pakistan has allowed the LeT to operate openly in the country since the early 1990s.*

However, since the Mumbai massacre, Islamabad has raided key LeT training facilities, shut down several LeT offices throughout the country, arrested and detained key LeT members, and pledged to turn over administration of the LeT headquarters outside of Lahore to government authorities.

These are positive, albeit much belated, steps, the experts said.* But Islamabad must go further: It must prosecute individuals found to be involved in the Mumbai attacks and shut down LeTs ability to sustain itself as a terrorist organisation.*

The Mumbai attacks were a wake-up call for India regarding the urgent need to address its homeland security shortfalls and to institute a more effective nationwide approach to countering terrorism, the experts said. There is much room to expand US-India cooperation on matters of intelligence and homeland security. 
Pakistan must punish perpetrators of Mumbai terror: US experts (Lead)


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## metalfalcon

Yes Pakistan will Punish them only if Indians will give us the Proofs so that we can present them in the courts where they are being prosecuted. 

Send your Own Delegation which will present the Proofs if you don't Trust Pakistani Authorities. Now India has to Co-operate in order to bring these People to Book otherwise they will be made free because of Lack of Evidence and I think Indians are well aware of Court Proceedings. 

The ball is in Indian Court Now, Enough of Blaming Pakistan, Authorities in Pakistan will soon Bring the culprits to Court. All the Court Proceedings will be shared with India if they want to .


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## ajpirzada

likewise india should stop supportin terror in pakistan..


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## asq

Not only Pakistan should punish the guilty, that if they are proven in the court, and not only Pakistan deprived the of all the access to money, training and most importantly bases.

This should not stop here. We all together also take away from terrorists the instances they use to attract young men in their fold, i.e Kashmir problem, Palestine problem,Chechnya problem, now you say why Chechnya, let me tell you why?

We have a world body and it discusses all matters pertaining to wars and other problems and than it passes a resolution pertaining to each and every problem, those resolution already passed are siting on shelves collecting dust, must be implemented in each and every case. in the case of Kashmir, in the case of Chechnya and in the case pf Palestine.and that my friend will take away the incentive used by thugs to continue to enlist young people.

We must also allow amnesty international to go to those troubled areas and allow them free access to investigate and report the findings and implement those without any delay or excuses.

Now let us see if any of the Indians on this forum will say about all of the above. this will test their sincerity and integrity of conviction to riding of terrorism, if however they have any ideas bring em on, but no games. this is a serious matter.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Solomon2

It is conceivable to me that the Mumbai perpetrators will be prosecuted, but the prospects seem dismal that there will be an accompanying change to Pakistan's terror-promoting culture. For even _Dawn_ admits (in today's editorial) that for the prosecutions to succeed the evidence must come from abroad. The implication is that not only will information from Pakistani law enforcement not be used to prosecute, but that the information India provides will be used to create new, more effective, and less traceable terror attacks. 

So thanks to rampant jihadism the rule of law has been subverted in Pakistan. No doubt the previously-existing culture of graft has been further enabled by this process, which weakens the faith of people in their democratic institutions even more. Is there any prospect in sight that Pakistan will turn the corner and rebuild its institutions, rather than set its population to take comfort by reveling in the destruction of others?


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## Awesome

> Pakistan must punish perpetrators of Mumbai terror: US experts (Lead)


Sorry we do not want to go to war with India.


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## Lockheed F-16

Yes, I also think we should eventually punish them, so where are the RAW agents??


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## Solomon2

Lockheed F-16 said:


> so where are the RAW agents??


Be patient. Suitable RAW agents seem to be unavailable, so Pakistanis have to create acceptable substitutes first!


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## Lockheed F-16

Solomon2 said:


> Be patient. Suitable RAW agents seem to be unavailable, so Pakistanis have to create acceptable substitutes first!



No, we get them weekly, they like Lahori Food Street I believe


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## asq

Solomon2 said:


> It is conceivable to me that the Mumbai perpetrators will be prosecuted, but the prospects seem dismal that there will be an accompanying change to Pakistan's terror-promoting culture. For even _Dawn_ admits (in today's editorial) that for the prosecutions to succeed the evidence must come from abroad. The implication is that not only will information from Pakistani law enforcement not be used to prosecute, but that the information India provides will be used to create new, more effective, and less traceable terror attacks.
> 
> So thanks to rampant jihadism the rule of law has been subverted in Pakistan. No doubt the previously-existing culture of graft has been further enabled by this process, which weakens the faith of people in their democratic institutions even more. Is there any prospect in sight that Pakistan will turn the corner and rebuild its institutions, rather than set its population to take comfort by reveling in the destruction of others?



Mr. Solomon, your name is great but what i read from uour post is that your wisdom is no way near the great Solomon.

let me jog your memory. it started in Afghanistan when Russia moved in. Pakistan was asked by U.S., its ally. to help rid of Russia, in doing so mujaheddin were created with the understanding and request of our allies, many of those were trained by CIA. and weapons coming from Egypt as they were Russian weapons so that Russians do not blame west for supplying weapons to Afghan freedom fighters.






Than Russia left and all war lords started in fights, than again our Ally asked us to help and we did, some students of Afghan camps were asked to ready themselves and they did and that is how Taliban started.

In their own wisdom they supported all Arab Mujaheddin who in turn attacked U.S, we were asked if we are with U.S or with others and we again joined U.S. so Pakistan was asked again and Pakistan not only disconnected with these guys, also started fighting them as asked by out ally. 

The story of Afghanistan is that when British were here Afghan's fought them, after many fights a mutual agreed upon line was drawn called Durand line, was drawn under a pact for 99 years, dividing Pashtoons into Afghanistan and India at the time, 

This line has never been accepted by Pashtoons so they have been going back and forth as if it is not there. and that is how they fought Russia and Pakistan and than Allies. this area is called Free territory as Pakistan has Agents who are there to safeguard the interests of Pakistan. and that is how it worked till now.

And they were the one talked to by Berziskty in the above video. 

There is lot more, but i thought that i should let u know the history so that u could have some understanding of it and could start as one person living in U.S. to take this and spread the truth and educate media and the govt. we know what U.S. does in instances such as these, it works to create Democracy and not chaos and helps and not hinders progress of the common man. so we are deopending on you to spread the truth to help the truth come out in the open.

i live in one of the greatrest countries of our times and let me tell you i wish all acted the way Canada does, specially in the case of Quebec separatists, wonderful Canada. my hats off for you.

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!

From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

There is lot more than this and i will write it if u like me to, but let us see what u have to say about all this.


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## Solomon2

As J.R.R. Tolkein wrote, _starting_ is too great a claim to be made by many. You say it started with the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. Other Pakistanis can point to the war and carnage of 1971, the kindling that ignited the war of 1965, attempts by Pakistani politicians to over-ride elections, the need to establish a role for the newly-formed Pakistani Army after its division in 1947, the Sepoy mutiny, assorted revolts of Hindu and Muslim slaves against Muslim potentates - you get the idea, don't you?


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## Patriot

Solomon2 said:


> As J.R.R. Tolkein wrote, _starting_ is too great a claim to be made by many. You say it started with the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. Other Pakistanis can point to the war and carnage of 1971, the kindling that ignited the war of 1965, attempts by Pakistani politicians to over-ride elections, the need to establish a role for the newly-formed Pakistani Army after its division in 1947, the Sepoy mutiny, assorted revolts of Hindu and Muslim slaves against Muslim potentates - you get the idea, don't you?


You are unfortunately brainwashed and think Pakistan and All Pakistanis are evil people who seprated from India just for corruption, jihadism.Trust me, we're not that evil and if you think these kind of issues don't exist in India then i think you should re read the history.
Thanks!


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## Solomon2

saadahmed said:


> You are unfortunately brainwashed and think Pakistan and All Pakistanis are evil people who seprated from India just for corruption, jihadism.


Hardly, I grew up with Pakistani diplomats as neighbors, and my lab partner in college was a Pakistani. All nice people who despaired at the road their country was taking. 

I note that your response doesn't refute a single word of what I'm saying, so maybe I have to be more clear: the point is that Pakistanis find it too easy to point the finger at others - either foreigners or other Pakistanis - rather than accept that they, themselves, individually have the primary role and responsibility for their own fate and that of their country. 

Pakistanis were the attackers of Mumbai? It's up to India to prove it - Pakistani officials may know but will never tell, or else they'll be axed (at least) for doing so.

America supported the mujahids against the Russians? Fine, that's a license for unlimited graft and theft for the next hundred years by Pakistani government officials - if people complain, just point their fingers to the Americans. It's so much easier. What ordinary Pakistani would take a government official to court, anyway?

War between a newly-divided India? Blame the Brits and other Indians for something. It isn't _our_ fault!

That kind of whining and greed and blaming others, I see that as Pakistan's story. (Jihad came later, not just to whip people up against the Russians but to preserve corruption by weakening the rule of law.)

Pakistan is not unique in such problems. South Korea was even worse, I think. The SKs got their act together starting in the 70s and have experienced fantastic economic growth since. But the key thing wasn't that much of the populace blamed the U.S. for its ills. Rather, it was the expectation that whether pro-American or anti-American, South Koreans expected their officials to take responsibility for their country's direction and the rule of law - or else the people would take over the streets _en masse _to demand it.

This is the sort of thing that is needed to keep democracy strong, and that's what's missing from Pakistan today. Demonstrations yes, elections yes, real prosecutions and voter rejections of corruption, no. When the police explain they are lying to the public about doing their duty by the order of their superiors, what better indication is there that the law remains in the hands of officials, not the people?


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## asq

Solomon2 said:


> As J.R.R. Tolkein wrote, _starting_ is too great a claim to be made by many. You say it started with the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. Other Pakistanis can point to the war and carnage of 1971, the kindling that ignited the war of 1965, attempts by Pakistani politicians to over-ride elections, the need to establish a role for the newly-formed Pakistani Army after its division in 1947, the Sepoy mutiny, assorted revolts of Hindu and Muslim slaves against Muslim potentates - you get the idea, don't you?



I told the truth to you and you start talking silly like other Indians, dude U. have started talking nonsense, and it is a no go. only tell you that u are either confused or have an agenda that does let you see the truth. Either wAy u r wrong.

u should learn "ANGER MANAGEMENT". it will do some good to you.

Myy deduction in the aforementioned post to you were based on Honesty and u have turned it into a silly baseless discussion, Go somewhere else with your silly thoughts, your little lies.

you are saying strange things as u r full of hate for Pakistanis and are blaming all Pakistanis for one guy, if he is what u guys tell me he is, as History goes your country has always lied to us and here u come to do even the worst and blame the whole country, dude U sir are an angry guy, taking your anger on all Pakistanis, u therefore should not be on this forum. dude.


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## foofighter

*Defence allocation up 35%*


February 16, 2009 12:46 IST
Last Updated: February 16, 2009 13:42 IST

Considering the changed security scenario in view of the Mumbai terror attacks, the government on Monday allocated Rs 1,41,703 crore (Rs 1,417.03 billion) for defence sector, almost a 35 per cent increase from the previous year's budget provisions.

Last year's allocation for Defence stood at Rs 1,05,600 crore (Rs 1,056 billion) and the current increase amounted to Rs 36,103 crore (Rs 361.03 billion).

*Presenting the Interim Budget for 2009-10 in the Lok Sabha, finance minister Pranab Mukherjee said the allocation has been increased because of the prevailing security environment, which has 'deteriorated considerably.'*

Noting that the Mumbai attacks had amounted to the threshold being crossed on the security front, Mukherjee said, "We are going through tough times. The Mumbai terror attacks have given an entirely new dimension to cross-border terrorism."

With the total revised expenditure for Defence last year standing at Rs 1,14,600 crore (Rs 1,146 billion), he said the increased Plan expenditure for Defence this year would be Rs 86,879 crore (Rs 868.79 billion).

Last year's Plan expenditure was only Rs 73,600 crore (Rs 736 billion), thereby providing an increase of Rs 13,279 crore (Rs 132.79 billion) this year. 

The increased allocation this year would include Rs 54,824 crore (Rs 548.24 billion) focapital expenditure as against Rs 41,000 crore (Rs 410 billion) in the revised estimates for 2008-09, Mukherjee said.

*However, the government would provide for any additional requirement for the security of the nation, he added.*

*The increased allocation for defence assumes significance as the government has decided to go on fast track acquisition of defence equipment.*

*The armed forces have already prepared a long list of equipment, mainly for its special forces commandos, to be bought under the fast track process.*

After the Mumbai attacks, the government has initiated a massive revamp of the security structure of the country, which includes creation of a Coastal Command.



http://www.rediff.com/money/2009/feb/16bud-defence-expenditure-to-be-increased-this-fiscal.htm


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## abdulrafi

Oh GOD save the poor indian people from poverty and hunger ( amen )


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## LCA

abdulrafi said:


> Oh GOD save the poor indian people from poverty and hunger ( amen )



same goes for you.


----------



## LCA

foofighter said:


> *Defence allocation up 35%*
> 
> 
> February 16, 2009 12:46 IST
> Last Updated: February 16, 2009 13:42 IST
> 
> Considering the changed security scenario in view of the Mumbai terror attacks, the government on Monday allocated Rs 1,41,703 crore (Rs 1,417.03 billion) for defence sector, almost a 35 per cent increase from the previous year's budget provisions.
> 
> Last year's allocation for Defence stood at Rs 1,05,600 crore (Rs 1,056 billion) and the current increase amounted to Rs 36,103 crore (Rs 361.03 billion).
> 
> *Presenting the Interim Budget for 2009-10 in the Lok Sabha, finance minister Pranab Mukherjee said the allocation has been increased because of the prevailing security environment, which has 'deteriorated considerably.'*
> 
> Noting that the Mumbai attacks had amounted to the threshold being crossed on the security front, Mukherjee said, "We are going through tough times. The Mumbai terror attacks have given an entirely new dimension to cross-border terrorism."
> 
> With the total revised expenditure for Defence last year standing at Rs 1,14,600 crore (Rs 1,146 billion), he said the increased Plan expenditure for Defence this year would be Rs 86,879 crore (Rs 868.79 billion).
> 
> Last year's Plan expenditure was only Rs 73,600 crore (Rs 736 billion), thereby providing an increase of Rs 13,279 crore (Rs 132.79 billion) this year.
> 
> The increased allocation this year would include Rs 54,824 crore (Rs 548.24 billion) focapital expenditure as against Rs 41,000 crore (Rs 410 billion) in the revised estimates for 2008-09, Mukherjee said.
> 
> *However, the government would provide for any additional requirement for the security of the nation, he added.*
> 
> *The increased allocation for defence assumes significance as the government has decided to go on fast track acquisition of defence equipment.*
> 
> *The armed forces have already prepared a long list of equipment, mainly for its special forces commandos, to be bought under the fast track process.*
> 
> After the Mumbai attacks, the government has initiated a massive revamp of the security structure of the country, which includes creation of a Coastal Command.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.rediff.com/money/2009/feb/16bud-defence-expenditure-to-be-increased-this-fiscal.htm




About 30-35 Billion $ in a year.


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## duhastmish

The poor will be suffering anyways. Just because of some lazy people who wont like to jump ahead , rest wont sit there and wait for the CHANGE to come.


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## Zaheerkhan

abdulrafi said:


> Oh GOD save the poor indian people from poverty and hunger ( amen )



 ,, dude...Plan allocation for agriculture increased by 300 per cent from 2003-04 to 2008-09. Rashtriya Krishi Vikas Yojna launched in 2007-08 with an outlay of Rs 25,000 crore to increase growth rate of agriculture and allied sector to 4 per cent per annum during Eleventh Plan period.

Agriculture credit disbursement increased three times from Rs 87,000 crore in 2003-04 to about Rs 2,50,000 crore in 2007-08.

The Agricultural Debt Waiver and Debt Relief Scheme, 2008 was implemented by June 30, 2008 as scheduled. Debt waiver/debt relief amounting to Rs 65,300 crore covers 3.6 crore farmers.

The corpus of Rural Infrastructure Development Fund (RIDF) increased from Rs.5,500 crore in 2003-04 to Rs 14,000 crore for the year 2008-09. A separate window for rural roads created with a corpus of Rs 4,000 crore for each of the last three years.

s against 60 lakh houses to be constructed under Indira Awaas Yojana by 2008-09, 60 lakh twelve thousand houses constructed between 2005-06 to December, 2008.

Due to revision in Educational Loan Scheme by the Government number of beneficiaries increased from 3.19 lakh to 14.09 lakh and amount of loan outstanding increased from Rs 4,500 crore as on March, 31, 2004 to Rs 24,260 crore as on September 30, 2008.

Turnover of Central Public Sector Enterprises increased from Rs 5,87,000 crore in 2003-04 to Rs 10,81,000 crore in 2007-08 and profits grew from Rs 53,000 crore to Rs 91,000 crore. While number of loss making enterprises came down from 73 in 2003-04 to 55 in 2007-08, number of profit making enterprises has gone up from 143 to 158 during the same period.


Rs.30,100 crore allocated for National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme for the year 2009-10. In 2008-09 employment of 138.76 crore person days covering 3.51 crore household already generated.

For more:Highlights of the Interim Budget 2009-10
Or just google info...

Compared to what is going into Rural employment,education,rural infrastructure,poverty reduction..the money allocated for defence is very small..

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## LCA

Zaheerkhan said:


> ,, dude...Plan allocation for agriculture increased by 300 per cent from 2003-04 to 2008-09. Rashtriya Krishi Vikas Yojna launched in 2007-08 with an outlay of Rs 25,000 crore to increase growth rate of agriculture and allied sector to 4 per cent per annum during Eleventh Plan period.
> 
> Agriculture credit disbursement increased three times from Rs 87,000 crore in 2003-04 to about Rs 2,50,000 crore in 2007-08.
> 
> The Agricultural Debt Waiver and Debt Relief Scheme, 2008 was implemented by June 30, 2008 as scheduled. Debt waiver/debt relief amounting to Rs 65,300 crore covers 3.6 crore farmers.
> 
> The corpus of Rural Infrastructure Development Fund (RIDF) increased from Rs.5,500 crore in 2003-04 to Rs 14,000 crore for the year 2008-09. A separate window for rural roads created with a corpus of Rs 4,000 crore for each of the last three years.
> 
> s against 60 lakh houses to be constructed under Indira Awaas Yojana by 2008-09, 60 lakh twelve thousand houses constructed between 2005-06 to December, 2008.
> 
> Due to revision in Educational Loan Scheme by the Government number of beneficiaries increased from 3.19 lakh to 14.09 lakh and amount of loan outstanding increased from Rs 4,500 crore as on March, 31, 2004 to Rs 24,260 crore as on September 30, 2008.
> 
> Turnover of Central Public Sector Enterprises increased from Rs 5,87,000 crore in 2003-04 to Rs 10,81,000 crore in 2007-08 and profits grew from Rs 53,000 crore to Rs 91,000 crore. While number of loss making enterprises came down from 73 in 2003-04 to 55 in 2007-08, number of profit making enterprises has gone up from 143 to 158 during the same period.
> 
> 
> Rs.30,100 crore allocated for National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme for the year 2009-10. In 2008-09 employment of 138.76 crore person days covering 3.51 crore household already generated.
> 
> For more:Highlights of the Interim Budget 2009-10
> Or just google info...
> 
> Compared to what is going into Rural employment,education,rural infrastructure,poverty reduction..the money allocated for defence is very small..



I think it is still less than 3% of GDP.


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## LCA

List of countries by military expenditure.

List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and if we add today's data then india came at no. 9.


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## silent warrior

well in ma opinion it is right step to increase the defence budget ...and i think a big chunk should go for r&d. as we can use these technologies in civil purpose.. as we can c a lots of changes in avaition after ww2 and in automobile sectors and we can chage the flow of money towards our indegenious projects that goes for foreign weaponary.


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## Bull

Lot of that might be in account of delayed modernisation and increased paypackage. India needs to rise the defence budget by 10&#37; a year and then fall back to to the conservative 3%, if it wants to seriously counter China.


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## Bull

Hey Mods,

Those two threads which are on the Indo_pak crisis section needs to be removed from the sticky section. Since the GOP has arrested 3 from karachi, and has confusingly blamed B'deshi elements and then 'conspiracy in europe' it has been proved beyond doubt that 26//11 was REAL and not a drama as provocativly said by Pakistanis.

And the day before GEO news even showed suspected huits used be these guys.


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## LCA

silent warrior said:


> well in ma opinion it is right step to increase the defence budget ...and i think a big chunk should go for r&d. as we can use these technologies in civil purpose.. as we can c a lots of changes in avaition after ww2 and in automobile sectors and we can chage the flow of money towards our indegenious projects that goes for foreign weaponary.



Yes... true.

But, first of all we have to learn how to use defence budget fully.


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## foofighter

LCA said:


> Yes... true.
> 
> But, first of all we have to learn how to use defence budget fully.



Precisely. Mumbai has been an eye opener, for cutting red tapes. If we manage to end red tapism, we can sky rocket ahead in military infrastructure.


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## Jihad

35&#37;, damn, Pakistan cannot compete with that, we'll have to find our own ways of dealing with the Indian budget.


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## pama

even then India spends only 2.5% of GDP to military.
But Pak spends 5% and China 6% of GDP to military.


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## Tornado

India has been taking steps to achieve the target of procuring 70 per cent of its defence requirements from indigenous sources by 2010. Despite its best efforts over the last two decades, India is nowhere near that objective as yet , hence i expect more increament in defence budget in coming year as well.


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## jeypore

abdulrafi said:


> Oh GOD save the poor indian people from poverty and hunger ( amen )



Oh GOD, we also need to save innocent people from these terrorist also. (Amen)!!!

Finally, India is taking the right steps, I would like them to increase it even further to 3% of GDP. I hope to see that next year.


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## AK-47

jeypore said:


> Oh GOD, we also need to save innocent people from these terrorist also. (Amen)!!!
> 
> Finally, India is taking the right steps, I would like them to increase it even further to 3% of GDP. I hope to see that next year.



I hope so too, they should increase to 3% ASAP. But they have to start spending that money too, there was lot of money from prvious budget that was never spend to due to red tapism


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## iceman2009

India can be a very strange country at times.

I for one am astonished that hundreds of millions of dollars goes back to treasury each year because the Armed forces did not spend this. 

Yet we have crumbling MIG21s no aircraft carriers and need over 1000 mobile artillary peices.

35&#37; increase is an increase of nearly $9 billion dollars 

ie from $27 billion last year to &#163;36 billion this year

India GDP is around $1.2 trillion so we are now spending 3% on defense


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## EagleEyes

All the money is most likely go towards MRCA, and other in development projects which have been in the stalled/planing mode for years. This is nothing to be threatened about as far as Pakistan is concerned.

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## Kansu

We need to read this news together with this headline.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...indias-top-defense-supplier-phalcon-deal.html

so,what were we talking about mumbai attacks?a special group of soldiers,a gang in goverment and army who intented to coup and establish a new goverment.
they asked support from israel,and israel asked a favour from them as a clause.what was it?the new goverment was going to be politically close to israel.
This is a dirty game,they wanna add india to the so called war against taliban.their real intention is to change political situation of east bastion of islamic world.they know very well that they need to break pakistan iran and turkish ring if they wanna success Big middle east project.
it is strange that this project died with the common efforts of iran and turkey.but they still insist on it...
there are secret societies in indian goverment who cooporate with israel.we need to question this as we speak about the increased defence budget of india...indians should act clever and give up purchasing weapons from israel.
best regards
Kansu


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## jeypore

WebMaster said:


> *All the money is most likely go towards MRCA, and other in development projects which have been in the stalled/planing mode for years. *This is nothing to be threatened about as far as Pakistan is concerned.




I disagree, the increase in the defense budget is regarding the new Homeland security agency that India is pondering upon, which is fine with me since the security of India against these terrorist is a paramount.


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## foofighter

Kansu said:


> We need to read this news together with this headline.
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...indias-top-defense-supplier-phalcon-deal.html
> 
> so,what were we talking about mumbai attacks?a special group of soldiers,a gang in goverment and army who intented to coup and establish a new goverment.
> they asked support from israel,and israel asked a favour from them as a clause.what was it?the new goverment was going to be politically close to israel.
> This is a dirty game,they wanna add india to the so called war against taliban.their real intention is to change political situation of east bastion of islamic world.they know very well that they need to break pakistan iran and turkish ring if they wanna success Big middle east project.
> it is strange that this project died with the common efforts of iran and turkey.but they still insist on it...
> there are secret societies in indian goverment who cooporate with israel.we need to question this as we speak about the increased defence budget of india...indians should act clever and give up purchasing weapons from israel.
> best regards
> Kansu



So what is the problem with Israel cooperating with India? That doesnt mean India will approve all of Israel's policies. Remember India was the one who started the Non Alignment Movement, in the cold war era. India has a very well thought foreign poilcy. Much comes from the diversity of the Indian electorate.


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## foofighter

You know the greatthing is despite of the global meltdown, India still has enough cash to increase it spending by 35&#37;. During the times when demand is less, India can get a good bargain. Companies/ countries will be itching several multi-billion dollar contracts, which inturn will make India urge for ToT, and other things.


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## Kansu

We hope the same brother.we hope india and pakistan dont fight again.because in that region,even if my friends will disagree with me,pakistan and india should cooperate.these 2 countries doesnt have friends acting in that region than themselves.israel or usa or china cant be an ally for both of these countries.
if we wanna fight despite of this truth,first we need to balance the players from the other sides of the field.after providing this balance,india and pakistan can settle accounts without any interference by the out of game players 
if pakistan falls today,india will be the one who will suffer most in that region.if india falls,pakistan wont face with a better circumstance than now.
thats why,it is important to keep peace and stability in sub-continent.
May peace be with you
Kansu

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## CrazyEagle9

*India raises its military budget by 35%*

So, Now India saves so many jobs in weapons industry...in this recession period...


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## tyagi

most of the increased budget is going to the increased salary of the military personal.


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## CrazyEagle9

Bull said:


> Lot of that might be in account of delayed modernisation and increased paypackage. India needs to rise the defence budget by 10&#37; a year and then fall back to to the conservative 3%, if it wants to seriously counter China.



I am sorry..My friend...But I think India should not counter china in defence spending...Instead India should counter china in Infrastructure spending to develop economy. From my own experience I can say infrastructure even in Indian cities is nothing compare to chinese cities.

*By the way....I could not find any info. about infrastructure spending in budget news...can anybody post..???*

PS: I am sorry to go somewhat off topic.


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## ejaz007

*India hikes defence budget by 55 percent*

NEW DELHI: India on Monday presented a Rs 9,532.31 billion expenditure interim budget for fiscal year 2009-10, showing a massive hike of over 55 percent to the defence budget. 

Citing the security crisis resulting from the Mumbai terror attacks, External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee, who also holds the finance portfolio, presented a new defence budget of Rs 1,417.03 billion. Last year, New Delhi had a projected defence expenditure of Rs 916.81 billion, which Defence Ministry sources said was overshot to hit Rs 1,146 billion. Compared to the revised 2008-09 budget, the interim budget has been increased by 24 percent. The new sum comprises 15 percent of the entire budget and Mukherjee said the amount could be increased if necessary, AFP reported. iftikhar gilani/afp

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## Awesome

This is BS, India hiding behind a stupid excuse. India's defence plans didn't suddenly change since November last year.


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## Jihad

Asim Aquil said:


> This is BS, India hiding behind a stupid excuse. India's defence plans didn't suddenly change since November last year.



Anything that could impress or intimidate Pakistan's forces or people is welcome by them.
Don't be too worried.


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## silent warrior

> Yes... true.
> 
> But, first of all we have to learn how to use defence budget fully.



u r right.... i think our officers are lackin in managerial skills .. i think we hav defence experts ,engineers and scientists ..but we don hav mba's . sometimes i feel that pakistan is better than us on negotiation over price of weaponary. we always ask for the best ..but they give us better in the most price ....look in T-90 induction ...even russia is also not inducting T-90 in his army. they r lookin for future mbt...and our officers are so desperate on havin them in large no's , even we hav a better mbt ARJUN. 

because they just wanna quantity not quality...but they dunno that quality of weapons improve the courage of sodiers. if they hav good quailty weaponary , they feel that , yeah govt, realy think of us.....they fight with immense spirit of patriotism...how can they survive in a tank with above 50 degree temp...
but only a manager can think this , upto that level , i think we r all assets of our nation defence ... even we normal citizen too and govt should hav to use his every assets in development of nation and as well as in defence also. well we need to change the managemnt of DRDO , and our defence procurement agencies......


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## Contrarian

Asim Aquil said:


> This is BS, India hiding behind a stupid excuse. India's defence plans didn't suddenly change since November last year.



Webmaster is partially right, and you are partially wrong.

There have been many plans that were stalled and pending with regards to the Military Services. 

What changed since Nov Last year is the Mumbai massacre which has changed the priority given to the armed forces. All the pending equipment/wish-list would be fast-tracked.

Webby, AFAIK, it doesnt include MRCA, that would come next year, not this financial year.


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## ejaz007

*Centre allocates Rs 10 crore for NIA*
February 16, 2009 16:38 IST


The National Investigation Agency, set up in the wake of audacious strikes in Mumbai [Images], has been allocated Rs 10 crore for 2009-10.

The allocation for the newly set up body was announced by the stand-in Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee [Images], who is also External Affairs Minister, when he presented the interim budget in the Lok Sabha on Monday.

The NIA, which is under the administrative control of Home Ministry, was set up by an Act of Parliament in December 2008 soon after the November 26 terror strikes in which more than 170 people were killed.

The agency has concurrent jurisdiction which empowers the Centre to probe terror attacks in any part of the country, covering offences, including challenge to the country's sovereignty and integrity, bomb blasts, hijacking of aircraft and ships, and attacks on nuclear installations.


:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::


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## ejaz007

*Army gets lion's share of Rs.1.417 tn defence budget*
16 Feb 2009, 1536 hrs IST, IANS


NEW DELHI: Saying a "threshold has been crossed" with the Mumbai terror attacks, External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee hiked the allocation for 
defence by 34 percent to Rs.141,703 crore (Rs.1.417 trillion) in the interim budget for 2009-10 he presented in the Lok Sabha on Monday. 

The allocation is nearly 15 percent of the total interim budget of Rs.953,231 crore for the fiscal beginning April 1. 

The interim budget was presented as the government in now at the fag end of its tenure and general elections are due in April-May. The budget is normally presented on the last day of February. 

As in the past, the 1.1 million strong Indian Army has received the lion's share of 41 percent or Rs.58,648 crore, with the Indian Navy being allocated Rs.8,322 crore and the Indian Air Force Rs.14,318 crore. 

In real terms, however, the budgetary hike works out to only 23.6 percent as the revised expenditure for 2008-09 has been placed at Rs.114,600 crore against the allocation of Rs.105,600 crore, said Mukherjee, who was presenting the budget on behalf of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, who is recovering from coronary bypass surgery. 

Of the allocation for the fiscal beginning April 1, plan expenditure has been pegged at Rs.86,879 crore against Rs.73,600 crore for the financial year just ending. 

This includes Rs.54,824 crore for capital expenditure as against Rs.41,000 crore in the revised estimates for 2008-09. 

"We are going through tough times," Mukherjee said while explaining the rationale for the hike. 

"The Mumbai terror attacks have given an entirely new dimension to cross-border terrorism. A threshold has been crossed. Our security environment has deteriorated considerably," the minister added. 

For the Indian Army, the hike works out to a little less than Rs.10,000 crore over the revised estimates of Rs.48,195 crore. The original allocation for the Army in the 2008-09 proposals was Rs.36,270 crore. 

For the Indian Navy, the hike is a mere Rs.288 crore over the revised estimates of Rs.8,034 crore for the fiscal just ending but a rise of Rs.901 crore over the original allocation. 

For the Indian Air Force, the hike works out to Rs.1,109 crore over the revised estimates Rs.12,199 crore for the closing fiscal against an original allocation of Rs.10,855 crore. 

Army gets lion's share of Rs.1.417 tn defence budget- Policy-Economy-News-The Economic Times


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## Awesome

malaymishra123 said:


> Webmaster is partially right, and you are partially wrong.
> 
> There have been many plans that were stalled and pending with regards to the Military Services.
> 
> What changed since Nov Last year is the Mumbai massacre which has changed the priority given to the armed forces. All the pending equipment/wish-list would be fast-tracked.
> 
> Webby, AFAIK, it doesnt include MRCA, that would come next year, not this financial year.


Ok may be a little reprioritization, but you don't change budgets to this degree out of a plan. The army getting a bigger share is because this time India wanted to go to war and the Indian Army was not ready or under equipped or not equipped as much as they wanted it to be whatever you want to call it.


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## CrazyEagle9

ejaz007 said:


> *Centre allocates Rs 10 crore for NIA*
> February 16, 2009 16:38 IST
> 
> 
> The National Investigation Agency, set up in the wake of audacious strikes in Mumbai [Images], has been allocated Rs 10 crore for 2009-10.
> 
> The allocation for the newly set up body was announced by the stand-in Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee [Images], who is also External Affairs Minister, when he presented the interim budget in the Lok Sabha on Monday.
> 
> :: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::



Instead of completely new agency, We should improve quality of current agencies...God knows how many years it will take this new agency to be fully operational..in this democracy delays...


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## ejaz007

*Officials make conflicting statements on Kasab*

* Deputy attorney general says Pakistan has formally requested India to repatriate Kasab 
* Information minister, Foreign Office deny the request was made

By Irfan Ghauri

ISLAMABAD: Government officials on Wednesday made contradictory statements regarding Pakistans demand for the extradition of Ajmal Kasab  the only surviving gunman captured during the November 26, 2008 terrorist attacks in Mumbai.

Sardar Muhammad Ghazi, the special public prosecutor and deputy attorney general, claimed in a TV interview that Pakistan had formally requested the Indian government to repatriate Kasab so that Pakistan could initiate the trial of the suspects that it has detained. 

He said if India did not hand over Kasab, who is prime suspect in the case, it would be difficult for the government of Pakistan to proceed with the trial of the other suspects that it had detained in connection with the attacks. Ghazi said the trial of all the detained suspects would be held in-camera because of security concerns and the sensitivity of the matter.

But Information Minister Sherry Rehman denied Pakistan had demanded of India to hand over Ajmal Kasab. She was talking to reporters after a meeting of the federal cabinet in Lahore.

A Foreign Office spokesman also denied Pakistan had made a request for the repatriation of Kasab. 

In a short statement, the Foreign Office said: "In response to a question about Ajmal Kasab's extradition, the spokesman said that Pakistan has made no formal request to India as yet."

Ghazi declined to comment on his TV statement when contacted by Daily Times. "I will not talk. I am not authorised to speak to you."

Shahbaz Rajput, the counsel for the suspects arrested by Pakistan, said he was not aware of the development since it was an issue between the two governments. But he added that international laws allow Pakistan to seek the extradition of any of its national if he commits a crime outside the country and try him in accordance with law of land. Rajput said that a panel of lawyers is being formed to defend the detained suspects. 

To a question, he said the family of Kasab had not contacted him so far, but he was in touch with the families of all other arrested suspects.

He said he would soon hold a press conference on the legal issues pertaining to the case.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## AK-47

India gets FBI evidence linking Pakistan to Mumbai attacks 

A team of Mumbai police is headed home armed with crucial evidence provided by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) indicating that the Nov 26 Mumbai terror attacks were planned in Pakistan.

A three-member Mumbai police team headed by Deputy Inspector General of Police Deven Bharti left for Mumbai on Wednesday with details of how the Mumbai attackers kept in touch with their Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) masters in Karachi. 

The US investigating agency charged with protecting the US against terrorist and foreign intelligence threats provided India details of calls made through the Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP), a satellite phone as also documents relating to the Global Positioning System used by the terrorists while sailing from Karachi. 

The forensic examination of the bullets used by the terrorists in Mumbai was also a part of the evidence collected from FBI by Mumbai Police. 

The evidence from FBI is expected to make the case against the terrorists water-tight and nail Islamabad's claims that the conspiracy behind the Nov 26 attacks was not hatched in Pakistan alone. 

India had sought the US help in analysing the evidence under their Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT) that came into effect in December 2005. 

The Mumbai police team came here last week with Letters Rogatory or Letters of Request issued by a Mumbai court to the US Department of Justice.

India gets FBI evidence linking Pakistan to Mumbai attacks - Hindustan Times


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## ejaz007

Great work. Its indeed a breaking news but unfortunately the same has been acknlowledged by Pakistan some time back. Nothing new except wastage of band width.

Pakistan has aknowledged part of the planning was done in Pakistan. Perhaps FBI was waiting for our clearance to go forward .

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## AK-47

Americans need Pakistan's approval?


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## metalfalcon

*So where is Indian Favorite ISI in this Report ? No Evidence Found against ISI, Nice try Indians. *

Pakistan Released her own report few days earlier so whats special in this FBI report.


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## ajpirzada

election time guys election time. 
every single news matter.


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## AK-47

metalfalcon said:


> *So where is Indian Favorite ISI in this Report ? No Evidence Found against ISI, Nice try Indians. *
> 
> Pakistan Released her own report few days earlier so whats special in this FBI report.



It's typical of you guys to deny everything at first but later you guys are all proven wrong. Remember Indian conspericy and Pakistan had not hand in this argument? LOL


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## pama

AK-47 said:


> Americans need Pakistan's approval?



Its other way round


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## pama

metalfalcon said:


> *So where is Indian Favorite ISI in this Report ? No Evidence Found against ISI, Nice try Indians. *
> 
> Pakistan Released her own report few days earlier so whats special in this FBI report.



You have habit of deny and then accept it.
same with this too. 
You never accepted ISI suupport's LeT but now you say ISI used to support before 2001


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## metalfalcon

Dear PAMA and AK-47. 

*Pakistan has Not Denied the Fact that Pakistani soil was used by the Terrorists for Mumbai attack. Pakistan has Given the Report Before FBI did, Were you Keeping Some Cotton in your Ears at that Time . Pakistan gave a Detailed Explanation on How these Terrorists Committed this act. There were at least 15 More Countries whom Resources were used by these Terrorists.*

Its You Indians who are denying the Facts That ISI or Pakistani Govt was Not Involved but the you don't Understand it *Worse than that* You Don't want to Understand It. You want to hear the Name of ISI Every time and that is what makes you happy and Gives you an excuse to Point Finger at Pakistan .


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## metalfalcon

pama said:


> You have habit of deny and then accept it.
> same with this too.
> *You never accepted ISI suupport's LeT but now you say ISI used to support before 2001*



Why you are Jumping  so Much up and Down. Do you know the Meaning of BEFORE, Yes we supported them Before we Even used to support Taliban (NOTE: don't Forget that Americans were the One who created them). 

Mumbai Incident Took place *AFTER* a Long Time since 2001. So it makes sense that ISI or Pakistani Govt was not Supporting them when they Carried out This Terrorist act. 

*Pakistan has Asked more than 30 Questions from GoI after Investigation on this Issue, Your Govt Better Co-operate with us In order to Punish these Terrorists,* The Ball is in Indian Court and lets see how you will React to Pakistan's Co-operation.


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## Solomon2

metalfalcon said:


> Dear PAMA and AK-47.
> 
> *Pakistan has Not Denied the Fact that Pakistani soil was used by the Terrorists for Mumbai attack. *



Has Pakistan, either the GoP or prominent individual citizens, ever clearly and unequivocally _apologized_ to India for the Mumbai attack?


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## blain2

AK-47 said:


> It's typical of you guys to deny everything at first but later you guys are all proven wrong. Remember Indian conspericy and Pakistan had not hand in this argument? LOL



No its not typical of us. We simply said give us proof. Upon being furnished, Pakistan responsibly acted upon it and responded. What pissed off Pakistanis and led to stonewalling were the threats backing up demands for action and what not.


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## Solomon2

blain2 said:


> No its not typical of us. We simply said give us proof.


There was nothing "simple" about it. Based on reports from the Indian media, Pakistani police quickly gathered plenty of evidence of their own. But they were not allowed to act upon it; only the data collected outside the country was considered "proof". The implication is that although some people may be prosecuted for Mumbai, their deeds have not been truly repudiated and the data collected will be used to stage terrorist attacks that can't be traced back to Pakistan as easily.

In sum, I characterize Pakistan's position as, "Terrorism isn't a crime, unless you get caught."

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## roadrunner

Solomon2 said:


> Based on reports from the Indian media, Pakistani police quickly gathered plenty of evidence of their own. But they were not allowed to act upon it; only the data collected outside the country was considered "proof".



How can Pakistani police gather information when the incident took place in India? You can't just arrest people and hold them without charge. 

Stop being so dopey.


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## Solomon2

Evidence doesn't just consist of artifacts from the scene of the crime, but from the criminals' lair: recruitment, training, organization, weapons and equipment purchases. That's the sort of stuff the Pakistani police collected, stuff indicating the purpose and planned targets of the terrorists, as well as their masters, of course.

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## ejaz007

Solomon2 said:


> There was nothing "simple" about it. Based on reports from the Indian media, Pakistani police quickly gathered plenty of evidence of their own. But they were not allowed to act upon it; only the data collected outside the country was considered "proof". The implication is that although some people may be prosecuted for Mumbai, their deeds have not been truly repudiated and the data collected will be used to stage terrorist attacks that can't be traced back to Pakistan as easily.
> 
> In sum, I characterize Pakistan's position as, "Terrorism isn't a crime, unless you get caught."



Solomon,

Ther is a thread related to mumbai blasts, infact more than one. I suggest you first go through those where the matter has been thoroughly discussed.

No coming to your accussation that the data collected shall be used to plan better terrorist acts.

First one has to see what proof has been provided. There are two types of proof. One is the telephone calls and mobile, sims and GPS equipment recovered according to Indian authorities. These were not procured from Pakistan but outside Pakistan and therefore can not be used as a proof. Even if these were used by terrorists how can you connect these with ISI or government until you have a purchase order signed by ISI or some government official.

Then there is the stuff recovered from the scene of the crime. Some tooth pastes, brushes and other daily use items of Pakistani origin. If these are taken into account and considered a valid proof then I am sure a number of terorists killed around the world would have either watches or other things made in USA with them. Does this mean USA is involved.

The other much talked about proof was the boat captured by Indians. Yes the same boat that came from Karachi and was rushing back towards Pakistan from scene of crime. Unfortunately the boat has just been released to one Mr. Vinod a Indian and not a Pakistani. So there goes your proof.

Yet another proof is the DNA sample of Mr. Ajmal that linkshim to the boat captured by the Indians. They found some stuff on the boat that has same DNA as Mr. Ajmal. Now if this is a valid proof than I guess a lot of other peoples DNA would yield the same result why don;t they prosecute them all. 

There is also another way one has to look at this DNA proof. Suppose you **** some one and that some one goes and blows herself at a public place. They take her DNA and other samples and analyze it and then search for the other DNA found. They come to you and arrest you for being the mastermind. What would you say I guess you are the guilty party if we go by the Indian standard .

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## BanglaBhoot

*Lashkar-e-Taiba ringleaders had ambitions well beyond causing mayhem in India, the Guardian has learned*

The plotters behind the Mumbai attack, which left more than 170 people dead, had placed India's financial capital on a list of 320 worldwide locations as potential targets for commando-style terror strikes, the Guardian has learned.

It suggests that Lashkar-e-Taiba, the outlawed terror group that planned much of the attack from Pakistan, had ambitions well beyond causing mayhem in India.

Western intelligence agencies have accessed the computer and email account of Lashkar's communications chief, Zarar Shah, and found a list of possible targets, only 20 of which were in India.

Two of the November 2008 attack's key planners  Shah and Lashkar's operations chief, Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi  are now in police custody in Pakistan.

Islamabad's decision to bring criminal charges against nine men accused of involvement in the Mumbai attack has partly placated Indian officials. But officials in New Delhi have been warning that they want to see people brought to justice for terrorist acts.

"If the west can prosecute people for crimes against humanity in The Hague or use rendition to interrogate them in undisclosed locations then what is stopping them now? After all, [western] citizens were killed in Mumbai too," an official said.

The US has been trying behind the scenes to co-ordinate intelligence exchanges between the two nuclear-armed rivals. The CIA has worked hard to be seen to help New Delhi  including by recovering phone numbers deleted by the terrorists on their satellite phones.

The fallout from Mumbai has destabilised the government of Pakistan's president, Asif Ali Zardari, which is attempting to face down Islamist groups his predecessors cultivated.

Intelligence agencies have warned that Mumbai raises the spectre of a new style of terrorist assault. The city of 19 million people was brought to a halt by 10 heavily armed gunmen rampaging through restaurants and hotels for three days.

Nine of the gunmen were killed  but the lone survivor has given Indian investigators a full confession that the assault was planned in Pakistan by Lashkar, a militant group that originally began an armed campaign against the Indian army in Kashmir.

There has been some speculation that raids in Spain which netted 12 men  an Indian and 11 Pakistanis  were a result of the investigations into Lashkar's role in the Mumbai attacks.

The dozen men were reportedly picked up for forging passports and other travel documents for terror organisations, including al-Qaida. Pakistan's government has said the Mumbai attacks were partly planned from Spain.

Analysts say the computer list is more of a statement of intent because Lashkar would need time to set up terrorist cells in so many places.

"Lashkar is an increasingly prominent terrorist group within the jihadi community but I am sceptical of it being able to act globally and extensively on its own," said Maria Kuusisto, an analyst covering Pakistan and Afghanistan for the Eurasia Group, a political consultancy in London.

Mumbai attackers had hit list of 320 world targets | World news | guardian.co.uk


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## Rehmat

The so-called "US expert" reminds me of "19 Arab hijackers - 9/11", six of whom were found alive and kicking in Saudi Arabia and "Saddam Hussain has WMDs" - which Obama's Israeli administration tends to find - hehe....

*The Real Criminals Behind Mumbai Carnage*


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## Contrarian

Asim Aquil said:


> Ok may be a little reprioritization, but you don't change budgets to this degree out of a plan. The army getting a bigger share is because this time India wanted to go to war and the Indian Army was not ready or under equipped or not equipped as much as they wanted it to be whatever you want to call it.



I reiterate, the Army always get the lions share of the Defence Budget. Nothings new, except the increase in the overall defence budget. Thats because of a lot of acquisitions that have been planned long back but were unable to take off-eg the Artillary revamp.

And going to war or not, was not a decision taken on the base Army not having as much as they wanted. No army ever is satisfied with what that they have got. But for a war with Pakistan, it had enough. You compare in relative terms not absolute. Compared to PA and what the Army needs to fight PA, it had sufficient. War is a decision taken by the govt, not the Army.


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## Solomon2

Rehmat, I think you need to justify why your statements of "fact" should be treated as credible.


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## Bull

Bull said:


> Hey Mods,
> 
> Those two threads which are on the Indo_pak crisis section needs to be removed from the sticky section. Since the GOP has arrested 3 from karachi, and has confusingly blamed B'deshi elements and then 'conspiracy in europe' it has been proved beyond doubt that 26//11 was REAL and not a drama as provocativly said by Pakistanis.
> 
> And the day before GEO news even showed suspected huits used be these guys.



No response at all. Atleast one of you mods can PM why no such actions are taken. The points i have raised are obvious.


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## linkinpark

*Pakistan evasive on 'army link' to Mumbai attacks*

26 Feb 2009, 1345 hrs IST, Times Now


NEW DELHI: The 11,000 page chargesheet into the 26/11 Mumbai attacks which was presented in a Mumbai court on Wednesday has thrown up some interesting findings. 

Investigations have revealed that the VoIP (Voice Over Internet Protocol) calls made by the 26/11 terrorists to their handlers have been traced to a serving colonel of the Pakistani army. 

However, the Pakistan army downplayed its link to the Mumbai terror carnage and said that the chargesheet filed on Wednesday is very vague on the link. 

Speaking to TIMES NOW, Brigadier Azmat Ali, Pak army spokesperson said, "Chargesheet does not accurately identify armyman allegedly linked to 26/11. There are many Colonel Sadatullahs in the Pakistan army. We are trying to find out if this is true or it is all a media speculation." 

Though the chargesheet filed does not spell out the Pakistan army link explicitly, it does name the officer as Colonel R Sadatullah from the SCO. 

The SCO, army sources say, stands for Special Communications Organization, a telecommunications agency of the Pakistani government which is run by officers from the army's signals corps. 

Another name mentioned in the chargesheet is that of `Major General sahab' whose name crops up repeatedly in the taped conversation between the terrorists and their handlers.

Pakistan evasive on 'army link' to Mumbai attacks-India-The Times of India


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## shchinese

we are educated people, we all want to have the full details about the attack, am I right? 

then how about having a discussion on why those Muslims would like to carrier out such an attack against India? maybe because of the wide crimes against Muslims in India just like what you saw in the Slumdog Millionaire? 

please don't just stop at the first half which looks in your favor, tell me the whole story and I will show you why you are the trouble maker.

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## linkinpark

shchinese said:


> we are educated people, we all want to have the full details about the attack, am I right?
> 
> *then how about having a discussion on why those Muslims would like to carrier out such an attack against India? maybe because of the wide crimes against Muslims in India just like what you saw in the Slumdog Millionaire? *
> 
> please don't just stop at the first half which looks in your favor, tell me the whole story and I will show you why you are the trouble maker.



Those Muslims are Pakistani terrorists and has nothing to do with Indian Muslims, their only aim is to cause damage to the country and create fear for the foreign investors to invest in India. Stay on topic. If you want to discuss about why they attacked in a larger sense open another thread.


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## roadrunner

^^  If Pakistan wants to destabilize India and blow up its investments it wouldn't just do one lousy attack which would leave Pakistan's fingerprints over everything!! 

This plot was hatched in India and carried out with the cooperation of the Indian police.


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## linkinpark

roadrunner said:


> ^^  If Pakistan wants to destabilize India and blow up its investments it wouldn't just do one lousy attack which would leave Pakistan's fingerprints over everything!!
> 
> This plot was hatched in India and carried out with the cooperation of the Indian police.



People who view the world with blinkers that suit their psychology cannot be convinced (no matter what) even with the acceptance of GoP that the plan was hatched in Pakistan and the terrorists involved in the attack were from Pakistan. I guess you can say now GoP is being paid by RAW.


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## Rehmat

A western media report has claimed that the last year's terror attacks on the Indian city of Mumbai were partly planned in the US. 

Gunmen behind Mumbai raids used cell phones that were activated in the US and paid for with funds sent from Italy Corriere della Sera reported Tuesday. 

The revelation comes after New Delhi sent the intelligence information to some Western countries so investigators could expose any ties to the network behind the November raids. 

The Italian daily said that the Italian security forces were also investigating a wire transfer sent to the US from the northern Italian city of Brescia. 

The message was sent by a Pakistani- suspect, named as Javaid Iqbal. Iqbal also sent the funds via Western Union to pay for five cell phones with Austrian country codes. 

But the cell phones were activated in the US by an American company and registered to an Indian citizen, it said. 

Based on the report, at least three of these phones were used by the militants during the Mumbai siege. 

"Everything is being registered by the media. You must inflict the maximum damage. Fight to the end. Don't leave any survivors," read one of the excerpts, in a call to an attacker at the Trident-Oberoi hotel. 

India has highlighted the importance of cell phone communication between the plotters and militants carrying out the attacks. 

Relations between Islamabad and New Delhi have worsened in the aftermath of the Mumbai terror raids, in which 179 people were killed including nine militants. 

Washington and New Delhi have been maintaining that the Mumbai terror attack plan was hatched in Pakistan. 

Following an investigation earlier this month, Pakistan's interior ministry admitted for the first time that the raids were partly hatched on its soil. 

Islamabad, however, has denied any involvement by Pakistani state agencies and says it is building a case against Pakistani 'non-state actors' accused of involvement in the raids. 

SOURCE


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## shchinese

linkinpark said:


> Those Muslims are Pakistani terrorists and has nothing to do with Indian Muslims, their only aim is to cause damage to the country and create fear for the foreign investors to invest in India. Stay on topic. If you want to discuss about why they attacked in a larger sense open another thread.



you didn't answer my question - why those terrorists are targeting india? not other countries? 

we all know the goal of terrorism, but why against india?


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## linkinpark

shchinese said:


> you didn't answer my question - why those terrorists are targeting india? not other countries?
> 
> we all know the goal of terrorism, but why against india?



It is not just India which is victim of the terrorist, there are several countries. Did you forget Terrorism in Xinxiang before Olympics. Don't divert the topic.


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## was

continue bark you indians forget about crippling ISI and operate freely to treat pakistan like nepal, isi will stay and **** RAW's *** and take you indains at bay


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## ejaz007

*MUMBAI: Indian police have accused a Pakistan Army official of involvement in the Mumbai attacks,* a Times Online report said. 

Colonel R Sadatullahs name has appeared in the 11,200-page document that lists the charges against Ajmal Kasab, the sole surviving gunman in the attacks.

Colonel Sadatullah is believed to be a serving officer in the Pakistan Armys Special Communications Organisation, the report said.

The document alleges the use of an official government email account linked to Sadatullah to have been used for the purpose. 

Rakesh Maria, the officer heading the investigation, confirmed that the officer is wanted for questioning, the report said. 

Maria told Times Online that another army officer (who is referred to as major general in telephone calls between the gunmen who orchestrated the attacks and their alleged handlers in Pakistan) is involved. 

DAWN.COM | World | Pak Army colonel ?involved? in Mumbai attacks: Rakesh Maria


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## Patriot

Woah, A Major General plotted this plan and left so many footprints.This Major General must be a villain in Bollywood.


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## jeypore

More serving Pakistani army officers may be named as conspirators in the Mumbai terror attacks, according to officials dealing with the case, after an 11,509-page charge sheet identified two high-ranking Pakistani military personnel who directed militants during the three-day killing spree.

Police in India named Colonel R Sadatullah of the Pakistani army's Special Communications Organisation (SCO) as part of the conspiracy to attack India's financial centre  a bloody rampage that left more than 170 people dead. Investigators said his email account was used to set up the "voice over internet" system  which allows calls to be made over the web.

Today Indian television contacted Sadatullah after being given his number by the Pakistani army switchboard. He hung up. Another accused is known as "Major General Sahab", whose title is used repeatedly in the taped conversation between the gunmen and their handlers.

The general manager of the SCO is Major General Muhammad Khalid Rao, an expert on China who joined the corps in 1979. The SCO operates only on the Pakistani side of the Himalayan region of Kashmir  which is claimed by both Pakistan and India.

Brigadier Azmat Ali, Pakistan's army spokesperson, said the "charge sheet does not accurately identify army men allegedly linked to 26/11. There are many Colonel Sadatullahs in the Pakistan army."

Speaking on condition of anonymity, Indian officials said "it was not a good sign to see this kind of response from the Pakistani army  supplementary charge sheets will be added as the investigation progresses and might be many more [Pakistani army] names to add".

Experts said it was significant that the Pakistani army's telecommunications officers had become part of the investigation  pointing out that the militants were guided by phone calls from their handlers in Pakistan.

During the 58-hour siege of Mumbai, a total of 284 calls, running into 995 minutes, were made by the 10 gunmen using mobile phones from the Taj Mahal hotel, Oberoi-Trident and a Jewish centre  where hostages were taken and shot.

Mumbai police point the finger at 38 individuals, 35 of whom are yet to be apprehended. The three who are in police custody include the lone surviving Pakistani gunmen, Ajmal Amir Kasab, and two Indians, Faheem Ansari and Sabauddin Ansari. "The investigation is not over," said the officials.

The two Pakistani army officials are mentioned as accomplices of the Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Islamist militant group which India says was behind the attacks. The others charged include the group's founder Hafeez Muhammad Saeed and fellow members Zaki-ur Rehman Lakhvi, Zarar Shah and Abu Hamza.

The Pakistani government, which has a number of men in custody, says it will not allow its nationals to face trial in India.
Pakistani officers helped plan Mumbai attacks, says India | World news | guardian.co.uk


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## blain2

Nice way to pin guilt:




> Today Indian television contacted Sadatullah after being given his number by the Pakistani army switchboard. He hung up.



Any Army officer would immediately hang up as soon as he hears that media is calling or someone is asking questions without first getting clearance from the higher command channels.


> Speaking on condition of anonymity, Indian officials said "it was not a good sign to see this kind of response from the Pakistani army &#8230; supplementary charge sheets will be added as the investigation progresses and might be many more [Pakistani army] names to add".



Please give me a break. So Pakistan Army officers are now to respond to idiotic Indian media calls just to keep Indian officials happy? Lets not mix regulations up with a desire to hide. No officer would be caught talking to the Indian media in the first place, and without prior and appropriate approval, good luck!

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## qsaark

This Zardari and Co has opened up the pandora's box. There was no need to start any investigations or crap like that. Now this bullshit will go a long way. I dont know what Kiyani is doing about it. If Indians want to fight, let them come. It is better to resolve it this way rather than allowing them to accuse our officers and anybody they please to.

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## Jihad

This Mumbai drama is going on for way too long, these Indians continue to come up with the craziest BS to make our country look bad.
I say enough is enough, prosecute the culprits and end it, if India wants more, give them nothing.
I've had it with this whole "26/11", it's personally tiring me out, it looks like (according to Indians) that ISI+ our Army + our government and our people were fully involved in this attack, as if our nation has any interests or benefits with these attacks. :S


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## Neo

*A Shock to Indian Diplomacy - Mumbai Drama ​*Wednesday February 25, 2009

On February, 2009 Bangladeshi Foreign Minster Mr. Hassan committed that Mumbai Drama was planned on their land. Unfolding of this issue slowly and gradually is continuously causing embracement and giving shock to New Delhi on diplomatic and international fronts. According to Press Trust of India on February 17,2009 BJP leader L K Advani demanded thorough judicial inquiry into the Mumbai terror attack since it could not have taken place without local support. The ruling Congress is still not accepting the actual facts and is trying to hide the failure of their intelligence agencies. The maligning Pakistan and ISI in Mumbai issue has again proved a **** tail story and blame game.

Rehman Malik, interior advisor to Prime Minister, stated in a Press Conference in Islamabad that terrorist attack in Mumbai was planned in a number of countries, including Austria, Spain, Italy, Russia, US and Pakistan but reportedly the attackers had gone to Mumbai from Thatta Coast near Karachi. He also revealed that stern actions would be taken against the culprits as per territorial law. The FIR has been lodged against nine suspects. Six have been taken into custody, including the alleged mastermind Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi. The actions of Pakistan clearly depict that government means business and her agencies have carried out proper investigation. On February 14, Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir briefed foreign envoys on the steps taken by it to cooperate with India in bringing the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks to justice and to eliminate terrorism and militancy. Meanwhile, US and several other countries have welcomed the outcome of Pakistan`s probe into the Mumbai incident, especially its recognition that the attack was partly planned in Pakistan.

US State Department spokesman Robert Wood while addressing the newsmen in Washington declared that Pakistan is committed to do `everything in its power` to bring the culprits to justice particularly those `living within their borders`, Pakistan has also handed over a dossier to New Delhi to seek answers of 30 questions that have cropped up during the investigations for further probe into the attack. Islamabad has also demanded that Ajmal Kassab and other persons involved in the Mumbai episode be handed over to it for further and detailed interrogation. Pakistan has adopted a constructive, proactive, well-coordinated and coherent regional approach to deal with the Mumbai Issue. The diplomatic corps and world`s leadership expressed satisfaction over Pakistan action but on the other hand India is yet to proceed further and is just carrying on media warfare.

Whereas, the responsibility displayed by Pakistan government on February, 12 do demand reciprocal actions from India too. She must take steps to stop state terrorism against minorities and Kashmiris. But the current statements of Indian interior and foreign ministers reflect that New Delhi is not serious in cooperating with Pakistan. Therefore it would be the duty of world community to pressurize India for handing over Col Purohit to Pakistan so that justice be granted to the victims of Samjhota Express. The United Nations Organisation should also ask so-called secular state to ban Hindu extremists groups that are operating under the leadership of Bal Thackeray since over 200 million Muslims, Christians and Sikhs have been targeted by these Hindu organizations.

According to media reports, on February 13, President Zardari chaired a conference in Islamabad which was attended by Prime Minister Gillani, Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, the Chief of the Army Staff (COAS) and Lt General Ahmed Shuja Pasha, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) chief. The meeting reviewed the current security situation and Indian response to Pakistani investigations over Mumbai attacks. ISI chief Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha gave a detailed briefing on the current situation in Swat and FATA and the ongoing efforts of law enforcement agencies to restore normalcy in the troubled areas. President Zardari expressed satisfaction with the ongoing actions against the Taliban, and vowed to eliminate insurgency. He paid tribute to the bravery and patriotism of the members of law enforcement agencies and ISI while saying that many of them had laid down their lives and many more had been injured inthe line of duty. "They are our heroes," he said. In fact India is indulging in anti-Pakistan activities. Several training camps are being maintained all along the western border and these are being used as launching pads for terrorist activities in Pakistan. She is busy in blame game against Islamic nuclear state for destabilizing it.

As per Hindustan Times its extremists have started advocating the severing of ties with Pakistan and accusing Islamabad of failure to initiate action against perpetrators of the Mumbai carnage and handing over of wanted terrorists. The paper further alleged that the Mumbai attacks were planned with military precision under the guidance of Pakistani establishment and the ISI. The point of view of the second largest party in relation to minorities is quite discouraging because it amounts to storming terrorism. The point be noted here that Pakistan itself is facing acute terrorism all over its territory. There is a need to find out the actual root cause of terrorism so that the same be eliminated. The main cause of spreading terrorism in South Asian Region is depriving rights of minorities in India, crushing Muslims, Sikhs and Parsies, poverty, lack of education, lack of national interests and new RAW-sponsored sabotage activities in neighbouring States.

The reason of unrest in Pakistan and India is Kashmir issue. Thus there is a need to resolve this matter permanently. The composite dialogues should be restarted so that bi-lateral issue could be resolved immediately. The termination of peace talks on Kashmir has once again pushed the issue into dark abyss. India is the "most dangerous country" in the world. It has everything from nuclear weapons to extremism which gives "an international migraine". Probably Indian leadership has thought that it is the right time to establish her regional hegemony under the garb of Mumbai drama. Bal Thackeray, India`s Hindu terrorist too has advised his government to attack Pakistan without warning. He also stated that he is proud of extremist Hindus if at all they have launched Mumbai attacks. His statements do reflect the exact mentality of extremist thoughts.

Earlier reports are there that US had asked Islamabad to allow New Delhi to attack some selected targets in Pakistan and later should not retaliate. Whether these reports are correct or not but the fact is that President Zardari, democratic government and Armed forces chiefs have loudly and clearly stated that Pakistan will retaliate with its full force if any aggression was imposed on her. The Prime Minister also sounded in a clear tone that any surgical strike by India in response to the Mumbai terror attacks would be seen as an "act of war" and will be dealt with accordingly. India has started proxy wars in the region. The first proxy militia - Mukti Bahini in East Pakistan - was created and used by India in 1971 to invade Pakistani territory.

And again, in Balochistan, India and the Soviets created and armed a Baloch `liberation army`. Then in 1989 the Americans left Afghanistan and ran away, leaving Pakistan to worry about the results. In short, it`s difficult to bring peace without settling the regional issues for example, Kashmir, and water conflicts. It may be recalled that David Miliband during his recent visit to India had called for resolution of the long-standing Kashmir dispute to bring lasting peace in the region. The Indian political pundits should pressurize their government and ask it to cooperate with Pakistan in elimination of regional terrorism. Pakistan is determined to eradicate the problems but her rival is not likely to show responsibility in resolving major regional issue i.e. Kashmir, water disputes and stopping Hindu extremists from terrorism against minorities

In short, India faced terrible failure on Mumbai Issue, LTTE defeat and other regional matters. RAW supported by Hindu Taliban is deceiving her government, national and international community from actual root cause of the problem .i.e. communal violence and terrorism against minorities. 

End.


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## foofighter

Neo said:


> *A Shock to Indian Diplomacy - Mumbai Drama ​*Wednesday February 25, 2009
> 
> On February, 2009 Bangladeshi Foreign Minster Mr. Hassan committed that Mumbai Drama was planned on their land. Unfolding of this issue slowly and gradually is continuously causing embracement and giving shock to New Delhi on diplomatic and international fronts. According to Press Trust of India on February 17,2009 BJP leader L K Advani demanded thorough judicial inquiry into the Mumbai terror attack since it could not have taken place without local support. The ruling Congress is still not accepting the actual facts and is trying to hide the failure of their intelligence agencies. The maligning Pakistan and ISI in Mumbai issue has again proved a **** tail story and blame game.
> 
> Rehman Malik, interior advisor to Prime Minister, stated in a Press Conference in Islamabad that terrorist attack in Mumbai was planned in a number of countries, including Austria, Spain, Italy, Russia, US and Pakistan but reportedly the attackers had gone to Mumbai from Thatta Coast near Karachi. He also revealed that stern actions would be taken against the culprits as per territorial law. The FIR has been lodged against nine suspects. Six have been taken into custody, including the alleged mastermind Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi. The actions of Pakistan clearly depict that government means business and her agencies have carried out proper investigation. On February 14, Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir briefed foreign envoys on the steps taken by it to cooperate with India in bringing the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks to justice and to eliminate terrorism and militancy. Meanwhile, US and several other countries have welcomed the outcome of Pakistan`s probe into the Mumbai incident, especially its recognition that the attack was partly planned in Pakistan.
> 
> US State Department spokesman Robert Wood while addressing the newsmen in Washington declared that Pakistan is committed to do `everything in its power` to bring the culprits to justice particularly those `living within their borders`, Pakistan has also handed over a dossier to New Delhi to seek answers of 30 questions that have cropped up during the investigations for further probe into the attack. Islamabad has also demanded that Ajmal Kassab and other persons involved in the Mumbai episode be handed over to it for further and detailed interrogation. Pakistan has adopted a constructive, proactive, well-coordinated and coherent regional approach to deal with the Mumbai Issue. The diplomatic corps and world`s leadership expressed satisfaction over Pakistan action but on the other hand India is yet to proceed further and is just carrying on media warfare.
> 
> Whereas, the responsibility displayed by Pakistan government on February, 12 do demand reciprocal actions from India too. She must take steps to stop state terrorism against minorities and Kashmiris. But the current statements of Indian interior and foreign ministers reflect that New Delhi is not serious in cooperating with Pakistan. Therefore it would be the duty of world community to pressurize India for handing over Col Purohit to Pakistan so that justice be granted to the victims of Samjhota Express. The United Nations Organisation should also ask so-called secular state to ban Hindu extremists groups that are operating under the leadership of Bal Thackeray since over 200 million Muslims, Christians and Sikhs have been targeted by these Hindu organizations.
> 
> According to media reports, on February 13, President Zardari chaired a conference in Islamabad which was attended by Prime Minister Gillani, Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, the Chief of the Army Staff (COAS) and Lt General Ahmed Shuja Pasha, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) chief. The meeting reviewed the current security situation and Indian response to Pakistani investigations over Mumbai attacks. ISI chief Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha gave a detailed briefing on the current situation in Swat and FATA and the ongoing efforts of law enforcement agencies to restore normalcy in the troubled areas. President Zardari expressed satisfaction with the ongoing actions against the Taliban, and vowed to eliminate insurgency. He paid tribute to the bravery and patriotism of the members of law enforcement agencies and ISI while saying that many of them had laid down their lives and many more had been injured inthe line of duty.* "They are our heroes," he said. In fact India is indulging in anti-Pakistan activities. Several training camps are being maintained all along the western border and these are being used as launching pads for terrorist activities in Pakistan. She is busy in blame game against Islamic nuclear state for destabilizing it.*
> 
> 
> The reason of unrest in Pakistan and India is Kashmir issue. Thus there is a need to resolve this matter permanently. The composite dialogues should be restarted so that bi-lateral issue could be resolved immediately. *The termination of peace talks on Kashmir has once again pushed the issue into dark abyss. India is the "most dangerous country" in the world. It has everything from nuclear weapons to extremism which gives "an international migraine". *Probably Indian leadership has thought that it is the right time to establish her regional hegemony under the garb of Mumbai drama. Bal Thackeray, India`s Hindu terrorist too has advised his government to attack Pakistan without warning. He also stated that he is proud of extremist Hindus if at all they have launched Mumbai attacks. His statements do reflect the exact mentality of extremist thoughts.
> 
> Earlier reports are there that US had asked Islamabad to allow New Delhi to attack some selected targets in Pakistan and later should not retaliate. Whether these reports are correct or not but the fact is that President Zardari, democratic government and Armed forces chiefs have loudly and clearly stated that Pakistan will retaliate with its full force if any aggression was imposed on her. The Prime Minister also sounded in a clear tone that any surgical strike by India in response to the Mumbai terror attacks would be seen as an "act of war" and will be dealt with accordingly. India has started proxy wars in the region. The first proxy militia - Mukti Bahini in East Pakistan - was created and used by India in 1971 to invade Pakistani territory.
> 
> 
> 
> In short, India faced terrible failure on Mumbai Issue, LTTE defeat and other regional matters. RAW supported by Hindu Taliban is deceiving her government, national and international community from actual root cause of the problem .i.e. communal violence and terrorism against minorities.
> 
> End.



Haha! Fascinating. After reading you entire post I can say , all you have done is take the best anti-pakistan speeches, and quotes from world leader, and replaced Pakistan's name with India. Try as hard as you wish, its not gonna change the fact that Pakistan has 70&#37; of world terror emenating from its soil, most of it affecting India.



> India faced terrible failure on Mumbai Issue


Which world do you live in? You mean persuading Pakistan to change its denial within 79 days, go from saying "Kasab is not a Pakistani" to actually accepting in front of the world that all the terrorists were Pakistans and attack was planned and executed from Pakistan, is India's failure? 

Wow, I'm spell bounded. I wonder if making Pakistan act just short of actual war is not a success, then what is?


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## metalfalcon

foofighter said:


> Haha! Fascinating. After reading you entire post I can say , all you have done is take the best anti-pakistan speeches, and quotes from world leader, and replaced Pakistan's name with India. Try as hard as you wish, its not gonna change the fact that Pakistan has 70% of world terror emenating from its soil, most of it affecting India.
> 
> 
> Which world do you live in? You mean persuading Pakistan to change its denial within 79 days, go from saying "Kasab is not a Pakistani" to actually accepting in front of the world that all the terrorists were Pakistans and attack was planned and executed from Pakistan, is India's failure?
> 
> Wow, I'm spell bounded. I wonder if making Pakistan act just short of actual war is not a success, then what is?



You know what, Slowly and Gradually Pakistani Name is being Replaced by India in All the Hate speeches around the world. Just have a Look at this Thread. 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/22621-india-hub-terror-fund-us-report.html

You accuse Pakistan of Supporting 70 % of Terrorists activities most of what effects India, Then* What about You......The Biggest financial Sponsors of Terror, Your (Indian) Billions of Dollars are Being Used by the terrorists in terrorists activities some of them Like 26/11 affect India as well. 
*
*You have Failed in Diplomatic Game which you were Playing Against Pakistan To Isolate Pakistan from Rest of the world, USA and Rest of World is Supporting Pakistan Even More. soon After 26/11 UK's PM announced Millions in Aid To Pakistan to Increase Security and USA also is Increasing AID to Pakistan* *so Your Trick of Check-Mating Pakistan has Back Fired*.

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## foofighter

metalfalcon said:


> You know what, Slowly and Gradually Pakistani Name is being Replaced by India in All the Hate speeches around the world. Just have a Look at this Thread.
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/22621-india-hub-terror-fund-us-report.html
> 
> You accuse Pakistan of Supporting 70 &#37; of Terrorists activities most of what effects India, Then* What about You......The Biggest financial Sponsors of Terror, Your (Indian) Billions of Dollars are Being Used by the terrorists in terrorists activities some of them Like 26/11 affect India as well.
> *
> *You have Failed in Diplomatic Game which you were Playing Against Pakistan To Isolate Pakistan from Rest of the world, USA and Rest of World is Supporting Pakistan Even More. soon After 26/11 UK's PM announced Millions in Aid To Pakistan to Increase Security and USA also is Increasing AID to Pakistan* *so Your Trick of Check-Mating Pakistan has Back Fired*.



You think using multi-coloured texts is gonna strenghthen your case?
If you are talking about Hawala money, its already been nailed. Unlike you we are quite transperent. You think the American's are foolish enough to just give money and not expect results? "conditional aid" is whats been given. It is not ment for peace negotiations with Taliban and come along with unconditional free-for0all air strikes.Awesome aid. And the second reason aid is being given, is because they know Pakistan is going to become a failed state, and a nuclear armed terror hub, is the world's worst nightmare. Talking about aid, I'm pretty sure if circumstances had been good, India would also have "granted" you aid.


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## metalfalcon

> foofighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think using multi-coloured texts is gonna strenghthen your case?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Its My style you got a Problem with that ???*  i don't care.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are talking about Hawala money, its already been nailed. Unlike you we are quite transperent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh I C, Really ....*Then why don't your Govt Audit Those Billions of Dollar and then let me see How Transparent you are*, *Accusing Pakistan is the best you can do, simple is that.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> You think the American's are foolish enough to just give money and not expect results? "conditional aid" is whats been given. It is not ment for peace negotiations with Taliban. And the second reason aid is being given, is because they know Pakistan is going to become a failed state
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have already Discussed This issue Many times and Pakistan Becoming a Failed State is Your *"Greatest Wet Dream"*  ever What can I do in this case, Its Never Ever gonna Happen No matter What Western Media says.
> 
> *Regarding American Aid and American Conditions, They are also Busy in Negotiating With Taliban in Afghanistan, So how can they ask Pakistan to have a Different Approach. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and a nuclear armed terror hub, is the world's worst nightmare. Talking about aid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep Having Nightmares we Don't care, Our Nukes are in safe Hands and You can make as mush Fuss as you Like on this Issue, There were few Incidents in the Past but we have Controlled them and now there is no Such thing as Nuclear Terror Hub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure if circumstances had been good, India would also have "granted" you aid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> why don't you give that Money to your Poor People who are in Millions *(More than 3 times whole Population of Pakistan)* so you have Better Places to spend your Money on. Take care of your Miseries Mr. Richie Rich $$. *Even if you had given us any AID we would have returned/Donated Back to your Poor People Because they need that Money more than US.
> *
Click to expand...

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## NSG_BlackCats

> USA and Rest of World is Supporting Pakistan Even More. soon After 26/11 UK's PM announced Millions in Aid To Pakistan to Increase Security and USA also is Increasing AID to Pakistan


Sir..US is supporting you bcos..their drones are killing you people inside pakistan....and your FM has done well by asking for drone technology from them...


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## metalfalcon

NSG_BlackCats said:


> Sir..US is supporting you bcos..their drones are killing you people inside pakistan....and your FM has done well by asking for drone technology from them...



They are supporting us Because they will not Get S****T in Afghanistan without Our Co-operation and *their Unilateral Actions in Pakistan are showing their Results, They are Helping Taliban Recruit 1000 New Members after each Drone Attack*, We have Right to ask for Defence Hardware same like you ask Americans for Military Procurements.


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## BATMAN

Dear indians, Zardari is your best bet. 
Next President may not accept your blame game or may not put cover on indian terrorism on Pakisatan soil.

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## foofighter

BATMAN said:


> Dear indians, Zardari is your best bet.
> Next President may not accept your blame game or may not put cover on indian terrorism on Pakisatan soil.



Well, actually he is YOUR best bet. I am sure Musharraf would never had come clean. And would have just "hinted" at doing something, which was not wat India was in mood for. It wanted actions not mere words like after Parliament attacks. I am pretty sure Pervez, would have escalated the crisi to war. And in that case you would have lost your 4th major conflict.


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## BATMAN

foofighter said:


> Well, actually he is YOUR best bet. I am sure Musharraf would never had come clean. And would have just "hinted" at doing something, which was not wat India was in mood for. It wanted actions not mere words like after Parliament attacks. I am pretty sure Pervez, would have escalated the crisi to war. And in that case you would have lost your 4th major conflict.



I don't want to start a debate on history of indo Pak but would like to bring your attention to new wepons which were missing from past i.e. NUKES
Musharraf was and will remain a pain in the ***.


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## was

this article was far far better than crap on times of india


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## was

foofighter said:


> You think using multi-coloured texts is gonna strenghthen your case?
> If you are talking about Hawala money, its already been nailed. Unlike you we are quite transperent. You think the American's are foolish enough to just give money and not expect results? "conditional aid" is whats been given. It is not ment for peace negotiations with Taliban and come along with unconditional free-for0all air strikes.Awesome aid. And the second reason aid is being given, is because they know Pakistan is going to become a failed state, and a nuclear armed terror hub, is the world's worst nightmare. Talking about aid, I'm pretty sure *if circumstances had been good, India would also have "granted" you aid.*




we wouldn,t even clean our a$$es with your money.
better if pakistan give some money to muslim brothers in india as they are the poorest in india


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## foofighter

was said:


> [/B]
> 
> we wouldn,t even clean our a$ with your money.
> better if pakistan give some money to muslim brothers in india as they are the poorest in india



Well, too bad i gotta bust you, but I am a muslim and I dont need money from anybody. I live in a country tht generates enough wealth to feed the hungriest. And please teach brotherhood to those terrorists who killing innocent Muslims and Hindu alike.


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## Jihad

foofighter said:


> Well, actually he is YOUR best bet. I am sure Musharraf would never had come clean. And would have just "hinted" at doing something, which was not wat India was in mood for. It wanted actions not mere words like after Parliament attacks. I am pretty sure Pervez, would have escalated the crisi to war. And in that case you would have lost your 4th major conflict.



Who cares in what mood your precious India is?
BATMAN is completely right, Zardari is your best bet.
A different president with a different background and with zero tolerance for Indian insults and threats would've acted differently.
Also, do remember, you as a Muslim, are hinting and hoping for a war against a country named the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, I'd say you are the terrorist yourself if you enjoy Indian pressure or military benefits over a majority of muslims from a mainly Islamic country.
It's very simple, Pakistan did not have to act just because India wanted, India needed proof and not mere words and cries to justify her accusations at Pakistan.
If the situation was to de-escalate, i'm pretty sure your supreme airforce would fail once again of achieving "air superiority" over Pakistan. 
Don't make me laugh with your pathetic threats.


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## Jihad

foofighter said:


> Well, too bad i gotta bust you, but I am a muslim and I dont need money from anybody. I live in a country tht generates enough wealth to feed the hungriest. And please teach brotherhood to those terrorists who killing innocent Muslims and Hindu alike.



You live in a country that generates enough wealth to send satelittes into space but fails to feed even the poor donkeys in India let alone the poor farmers or human beings or beggars on the streets, we're talking hundreds of millions here, don't give me that jingoistic talk.
Keep defending your "home" nation which has brought so much "good "to Muslims, it's hilarious.
What have the Hindu's in India done to brainwash you into believing that Pakistan is the terror state and that it acts and supports these groups who deal damage in India e.g. Mumbai.
Who messed with your mind that led you to believe that Pakistan must eat Indian accusations and threats and do as India says?
You're a laughing stock, so is your media, and so are the statements of your temporary minister who barely gets to my knees with his midget length.
All that came out of this Mumbai drama is not extensive co-operation between our nations as I've hoped, but simply emotional and serious drama, especially if all the Indians jump on the bandwagon and accuse Pakistan of all the world's problems.

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## Mav3rick

foofighter said:


> Well, actually he is YOUR best bet. I am sure Musharraf would never had come clean. And would have just "hinted" at doing something, which was not wat India was in mood for. It wanted actions not mere words like after Parliament attacks. I am pretty sure Pervez, would have escalated the crisi to war. And in that case you would have lost your 4th major conflict.



LOL......Damn that was funny!

You Indians are typical, I mean you are willing to amass a million soldiers on Pakistani border yet you do not have the courage to cross 1 step in to Pakistani soil even then you love to give dead lines and "No way back" speeches!

But you are right if war had broken out Pakistan would have lost her 4th major conflict even though India would have lost atleast 50% of her Air Force, 30-45% of her Armored Division, 10-15% of her Army and probably all of her Navy with minimal damage to PAF, PN and PA. Lately I have come to understand that when you speak about 'Pakistani loss' you are actually trying to forget the crushing defeats that you encountered in 1948, 1965 and 1999 however small or big the encounters were. In all conflicts except 1971 (which was actually an internal matter of Pakistan) you eventually had to run to the UN to broker a ceasefire to save your forces from annihilation. Irony is that you continue to claim that your forces are more Chinese specific, here I wonder what would a bigger more powerful country do to your forces when a country almost 1/8th in population has defeated you in almost every encounter (not counting 1971 as that was again an internal matter).

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## Mav3rick

foofighter said:


> Well, too bad i gotta bust you, but I am a muslim and I dont need money from anybody. I live in a country tht generates enough wealth to feed the hungriest. And please teach brotherhood to those terrorists who killing innocent Muslims and Hindu alike.



I dont believe you are a Muslim and I absolutely reject your suggestion that Indian generates enough wealth to feed the hungriest as more then 70% of your population lives in slums and eats only once or twice a day!


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## Mav3rick

rave said:


> WTF can a different person can do?declare jihad ?throw nukes?
> WTF can he do?



A different president would have told India to **** OFF! I different president would have paid similar attention to India that a sane person pays to a rabid barking dog on the street!


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## moha199

NSG_BlackCats said:


> Sir..US is supporting you bcos..their drones are killing you people inside pakistan....and your FM has done well by asking for drone technology from them...


not our people its the terrorists and in some incidents civilians, get it straight. Pakistan is letting all pro indian act by USA is because we know that once india is close to USA there is no way in this world who will save india. Pakistan is working to bring india and US close by not opposing it in all manners so india taste the same what Pakistan had been tasting but this time Pakistan will get a chance to get out of US paws!!! get this straight too buddy boy


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## duhastmish

More than pakistan's help to india it was more of indian diplomacy which brought this situation when -pakistan had to help india and agree to facts provided by india.
As for diffrent leader - i remember how harsh Musharaff was a month ago but he was angry and replying to pranab mukhrjee's comments. 
But never the less he would have had better diplomatic channel than current president and prime minister.
But again India had upper hand here because of being bigger force currently in diplomatic relations.


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## Bull

Neo said:


> On February, 2009 Bangladeshi Foreign Minster Mr. Hassan committed that Mumbai Drama was planned on their land. Unfolding of this issue slowly and gradually is continuously causing embracement and giving shock to New Delhi on diplomatic and international fronts..


 
How does this embarass India ? 



Neo said:


> According to Press Trust of India on February 17,2009 BJP leader L K Advani demanded thorough judicial inquiry into the Mumbai terror attack since it could not have taken place without local support. The ruling Congress is still not accepting the actual facts and is trying to hide the failure of their intelligence agencies. The maligning Pakistan and ISI in Mumbai issue has again proved a **** tail story and blame game.
> 
> Pakistan hasnt left anything for us when it comes to maligning, with its innumerable U-turns. Infact two of the arrested are Indians in 26/11.
> 
> 
> 
> Neo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rehman Malik, interior advisor to Prime Minister, stated in a Press Conference in Islamabad that terrorist attack in Mumbai was planned in a number of countries, including Austria, Spain, Italy, Russia, US and Pakistan but reportedly the attackers had gone to Mumbai from Thatta Coast near Karachi. He also revealed that stern actions would be taken against the culprits as per territorial law. The FIR has been lodged against nine suspects. Six have been taken into custody, including the alleged mastermind Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi. The actions of Pakistan clearly depict that government means business and her agencies have carried out proper investigation..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you say Rehman's words are holy, tomorrow your FM or PN chief or PA chief would come out and say something totally disconnected. And then woud you quote then. And has Lakhvi been taken into arrest for sure ???
> 
> 
> 
> Neo said:
> 
> 
> 
> On February 14, Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir briefed foreign envoys on the steps taken by it to cooperate with India in bringing the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks to justice and to eliminate terrorism and militancy. Meanwhile, US and several other countries have welcomed the outcome of Pakistan`s probe into the Mumbai incident, especially its recognition that the attack was partly planned in Pakistan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It wasnt left with no choice. Pakistan was releuctant till the FBI stepped in.
> 
> 
> 
> Neo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamabad has also demanded that Ajmal Kassab and other persons involved in the Mumbai episode be handed over to it for further and detailed interrogation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You havent. As i said before Pakistan has multiple power centres, every head conducting its own investigation and coming to its own conclusions.
> 
> 
> 
> Neo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan has adopted a constructive, proactive, well-coordinated and coherent regional approach to deal with the Mumbai Issue. The diplomatic corps and world`s leadership expressed satisfaction over Pakistan action but on the other hand India is yet to proceed further and is just carrying on media warfare.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is this whats called constructive?
> 
> 
> 
> Neo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whereas, the responsibility displayed by Pakistan government on February, 12 do demand reciprocal actions from India too. She must take steps to stop state terrorism against minorities and Kashmiris.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who are you to be bothered about Indians?
> 
> 
> 
> Neo said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the current statements of Indian interior and foreign ministers reflect that New Delhi is not serious in cooperating with Pakistan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cooperate and do what.
> 
> 
> 
> Neo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Therefore it would be the duty of world community to pressurize India for handing over Col Purohit to Pakistan so that justice be granted to the victims of Samjhota Express.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Abosulte rubish. What has Col Purohit got to do with Samjauta blasts.
> 
> 
> 
> Neo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The United Nations Organisation should also ask so-called secular state to ban Hindu extremists groups that are operating under the leadership of Bal Thackeray since over 200 million Muslims, Christians and Sikhs have been targeted by these Hindu organizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unhappy rantings since muslim organisation has been implicated many a times for mass murders.
> 
> 
> 
> Neo said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to media reports, on February 13, President Zardari chaired a conference in Islamabad which was attended by Prime Minister Gillani, Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, the Chief of the Army Staff (COAS) and Lt General Ahmed Shuja Pasha, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) chief. The meeting reviewed the current security situation and Indian response to Pakistani investigations over Mumbai attacks. ISI chief Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha gave a detailed briefing on the current situation in Swat and FATA and the ongoing efforts of law enforcement agencies to restore normalcy in the troubled areas. President Zardari expressed satisfaction with the ongoing actions against the Taliban, and vowed to eliminate insurgency. He paid tribute to the bravery and patriotism of the members of law enforcement agencies and ISI while saying that many of them had laid down their lives and many more had been injured inthe line of duty. "They are our heroes," he said. In fact India is indulging in anti-Pakistan activities. Several training camps are being maintained all along the western border and these are being used as launching pads for terrorist activities in Pakistan. She is busy in blame game against Islamic nuclear state for destabilizing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These are accusations and nothing to do with India's diplomatic shock.
Click to expand...


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## foofighter

Mav3rick said:


> wonder what would a bigger more powerful country do to your forces when a country almost 1/8th in population has defeated you in almost every encounter (not counting 1971 as that was again an internal matter).



Wow, you Pakistanis surely have a world of your own. 
Not much I can expect from the likes of Zaid Hamid. Who thinks "Kasab is Amar Singh, a Sikh"..HAHA. 
1947, 1965, 1999, Operation Safed Sagar. We beat you, in everything!. I mean for god's sake, try and type keywords "Indo-Pak wars" and see what you cant believe.
And FYI, after 1965 war, you were left with only 50&#37; of your army, look up the facts before blabering. Your much loved Nawaz, said if a real conflict had broken out after Kargil, you coudnt even last 6 days before fuel ran out. And he wet his pants when it came to mentioning the scenario when IN had moved to cutoff all your fuel routes.
Again denial is a culture it seems in Pakistan.



> But you are right if war had broken out Pakistan would have lost her 4th major conflict even though India would have lost atleast 50% of her Air Force, 30-45% of her Armored Division, 10-15% of her Army and probably all of her Navy with *minimal damage to PAF, PN and PA*



You mean like in 1965 when PAF had an attrition rate of 2.16 compared to IAF's 1.45? You mean like in 1971 when IAF changed the face of East Pakistan? Or you mean like the time during Kargil? When IAF had BVR and cud lock on to inferior PAF fleet, forcing them to disengage and giving IAF complete Air superiority?
Now dont tell me that you have BVR now so you can fight or atleast take your jets up in the sky, you may have got BVR in 21st century, but by 2009 we have a lot more.

Seriously dude? What world do you live in?


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## Mav3rick

foofighter said:


> Wow, you Pakistanis surely have a world of your own.
> Not much I can expect from the likes of Zaid Hamid. Who thinks "Kasab is Amar Singh, a Sikh"..HAHA.
> 1947, 1965, 1999, Operation Safed Sagar. We beat you, in everything!. I mean for god's sake, try and type keywords "Indo-Pak wars" and see what you cant believe.
> And FYI, after 1965 war, you were left with only 50% of your army, look up the facts before blabering. Your much loved Nawaz, said if a real conflict had broken out after Kargil, you coudnt even last 6 days before fuel ran out. And he wet his pants when it came to mentioning the scenario when IN had moved to cutoff all your fuel routes.
> Again denial is a culture it seems in Pakistan.



Patriotism is good but being blind is not!

This is from Wikipedia alone even though I hate Wikipedia but at this moment cannot be bothered to enlighten you any further:

"*Indo-Pakistani War of 1947:* Also called the First Kashmir War. The war started in October 1947 when the Maharajah of the princely state of Kashmir and Jammu had failed to accede to either of the newly independent states of Pakistan or India. Armed forces of India attacked and occupied the princely state, forcing the Maharajah to sign the "Agreement to the accession of the princely state to India". When the Maharaja resisted, India airlifted troops to Srinagar where they engaged in a military encounter with local Kashmiri Rebels who wanted the Kashmir to be a part of Pakistan. British appointed Army Chief of Pakistan Douglas Gracey did not send troops to the Kashmir front and refused to obey the order to do so given by Mohammad Ali Jinnah, Governor-General of Pakistan. His argument was that the Indian forces occupying Kashmir represented the British Crown and so did he hence he could not engage in a military encounter with Indian forces. Due to Gracey's disobedience Pakistan lost two third of Kashmir to India. The United Nations was then invited by Pakistan to mediate the quarrel. The UN mission insisted that the opinion of Kashmiris must be ascertained, The UN Security Council passed Resolution 47 on April 21, 1948. The resolution stated "that the final disposition of the State of Jammu and Kashmir will be made in accordance with the will of the people expressed through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite conducted under the auspices of the United Nations".[citation needed] India insisted that no referendum could occur because they could lose Kashmir to Pakistan due to large Muslim Population. The war ended in December 1948 with the Line of Control dividing the erstwhile princely state into territories administered by Pakistan (northern and western areas) and India (southern, central and northeastern areas).

*Indo-Pakistani War of 1965:* Also called The Second Kashmir War, started following of Pakistan's Operation Gibraltar, which was designed to infiltrate forces into Jammu and Kashmir to precipitate an insurgency against rule by India. India retaliated by launching an attack on Pakistan thus igniting the war. The five-week war caused thousands of casualties on both sides and was witness to the largest tank battle in military history since World War II. India took a historical beating by the hands of the Pakistani army. Even today Indias top military thinker Ravi Rikhye admits that Khem Karan had the potential to be Indias Fourth Battle of Panipat. It ended in a United Nations (UN) mandated ceasefire and the subsequent issuance of the Tashkent Declaration.

*Indo-Pakistani War of 1971:* The third war was unique in that it did not involve the issue of Kashmir, but was rather precipitated by the crisis brewing in East Pakistan. After months of internal conflict, Bengali-majority East Pakistan wanted to break away from Pakistan and demanded independence. India saw this as an oppurtuinty to take revenge and sent their trained terrorists called Mukti Bahini across the border into East Pakistan much to the consternation of West Pakistan. Mukti Bahini acted as fuel to fire in the movement of civil disobedience by carrying out various terrorist activites and blamed them on Pakistani Armed forces such as the alleged large-scale genocidal atrocities[1][2][3]. Pakistani forces trapped in East Pakistan with supplies becoming scarce surrendered on the eastern front. The war resulted in the creation of Bangladesh. This war, saw the highest number of casualties in any of the India-Pakistan conflicts, as well as the largest number of Prisoners of War since the Second World War after the surrender of nearly 90,000 Pakistani troops and civilians. It is believed that 1,000,000-3,000,000 Bangladeshis were killed as a result of this war.

*Indo-Pakistani War of 1999:* Also known as Kargil War is considered a minor war because fighting was limited to a single front in Kashmir; though it produced stirring emotions between the two nations involved, coming at a time of increased media and electronic coverage. This was the second and most recent ground war between any two nations after they had developed nuclear weapons, after the Sino-Soviet border conflict. Pakistani troops along with Kashmiri insurgents occupied Indian army posts across the Line of Control (LoC) and began shelling Indian positions. If Pakistan had been able to capture Kargil they could easily take Kashmir but United States intervened hence Pakistan was forced to draw its forces back across the LoC."





foofighter said:


> You mean like in 1965 when PAF had an attrition rate of 2.16 compared to IAF's 1.45? You mean like in 1971 when IAF changed the face of East Pakistan? Or you mean like the time during Kargil? When IAF had BVR and cud lock on to inferior PAF fleet, forcing them to disengage and giving IAF complete Air superiority?
> Now dont tell me that you have BVR now so you can fight or atleast take your jets up in the sky, you may have got BVR in 21st century, but by 2009 we have a lot more.



No I mean like in 1965 when PAF shot down over 100 Indian Jets while losing only around 30 of her own. And in 1971 when IAF destroyed only grounded planes in west Pakistan while losing almost every dogfight in eastern Pakistan, must I advise you that in 1971 because of mutiny PAF in west Pakistan wasn't allowed to man their planes!

And in 1999 Pakistan Military did not actively participate the the conflict, the purpose of Kargil episode was to get the world's attention towards a very real problem in Kashmir dispute, almost the only major issue because of which we have fought 3 wars. You have forced me to shame you by reminding you that a handful of Mujahideen not only kept the Indian Army and the Indian Air Force at bay but also held their ground until you begged the US and UNO to intervene which politically forced Pakistan to stop supplies to the Mujahideen who eventually had to retreat as their ammo depleted and supplies exhausted. The only victory you can really enjoy was murdering the retreating Mujahideen who had nothing left to fight back with! 

In honesty the handful of Mujahideen raped your Army mostly because of their strategic location and passion till they ran out of support and supplies. Well if all the above makes you proud then be it.




foofighter said:


> Seriously dude? What world do you live in?



Aah *sigh* ........ sadly not the same as yours.


----------



## was

foofighter said:


> Well, too bad i gotta bust you, but I am a muslim and I dont need money from anybody. *I live in a country tht generates enough wealth to feed the hungriest.* And please teach brotherhood to those terrorists who killing innocent Muslims and Hindu alike.



bust me???? ha ha ha
well the facts are different.india is spending more money on buying waeapon and dreaming to become superpower with more than half pop.without toilet.
and please stop your indian hindu terrorist countrymen hwo killing innocent muslims and christians and even hindu


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## was

Mav3rick said:


> LOL......Damn that was funny!
> 
> You Indians are typical, I mean you are willing to amass a million soldiers on Pakistani border yet you do not have the courage to cross 1 step in to Pakistani soil even then you love to give dead lines and "No way back" speeches!
> 
> But you are right if war had broken out Pakistan would have lost her 4th major conflict even though India would have lost atleast 50&#37; of her Air Force, 30-45% of her Armored Division, 10-15% of her Army and probably all of her Navy with minimal damage to PAF, PN and PA. Lately I have come to understand that when you speak about 'Pakistani loss' you are actually trying to forget the crushing defeats that you encountered in 1948, 1965 and 1999 however small or big the encounters were. In all conflicts except 1971 (which was actually an internal matter of Pakistan) you eventually had to run to the UN to broker a ceasefire to save your forces from annihilation. Irony is that you continue to claim that your forces are more Chinese specific, here I wonder what would a bigger more powerful country do to your forces when a country almost 1/8th in population has defeated you in almost every encounter (not counting 1971 as that was again an internal matter).


bro let these fools believe what they want.there are some indian muslims hwo demonstrate to be patriotic indians only to please their hindu masters so maybe their house will not burn.
they are makefull of story,s like we beated pakistan in every war ect.ect.
they watch man baharat or whatever it is and they get exited.or bollywood crap LOC
they are so exited, even if their army three time bigger was not able occupy a city like lahore so closer to the border(their general sayed that they will have breakfast iin lahore after it will be occupied)in fact they got their *** very well kicked.
now see how indian members will respond,''what about banghladesh'' ect.


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## metalfalcon

foofighter said:


> Well, actually he is YOUR best bet. I am sure Musharraf would never had come clean. And would have just "hinted" at doing something, which was not wat India was in mood for. It wanted actions not mere words like after Parliament attacks. I am pretty sure Pervez, would have escalated the crisi to war. And in that case you would have lost your *4th major conflict*.



Another Troll  Fanboy From Bahrat Rakshak. 

You are Really Poor in History and Military Studies. Get over this Fantasy that you won  all the wars, The only war you won was 1971 war and That also because of Bengali People. 

*If you are still Living in Fantasies don't forget How Chinese  Thrashed you in 1962, This is your Credibility, when you get to fight with Someone who is of same size as yours. *
*
Instead of small size, Economy and Military Power, we Pakistanis have Managed to Thrust you Back  whenever you Aimed of Conquering our Cities. *

Check more about your Victories in the History Section on  and stop Living in the Fantasy world and Think before what you Post and *Please stick to the Topic. Enough of Derailing the Topic. 
*


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## s90

I also noticed that west instead of giving statements supporting India came up with things like "hawala system of india supporting terrorism" around the world


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## Proud2Indian

Mav3rick said:


> Patriotism is good but being blind is not!
> 
> This is from Wikipedia alone even though I hate Wikipedia but at this moment cannot be bothered to enlighten you any further:
> 
> *Indo-Pakistani War of 1965:* Also called The Second Kashmir War, started following of Pakistan's Operation Gibraltar, which was designed to infiltrate forces into Jammu and Kashmir to precipitate an insurgency against rule by India. India retaliated by launching an attack on Pakistan thus igniting the war. The five-week war caused thousands of casualties on both sides and was witness to the largest tank battle in military history since World War II. India took a historical beating by the hands of the Pakistani army. Even today India&#8217;s top military thinker Ravi Rikhye admits that Khem Karan had the potential to be India&#8217;s Fourth Battle of Panipat. It ended in a United Nations (UN) mandated ceasefire and the subsequent issuance of the Tashkent Declaration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aah *sigh* ........ sadly not the same as yours.


Well I guess making your own history. 
The page that you have taken from this writeup about Line of ControlLine of Control - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia(Strangely writeup about the wars appeared less than month back)
While conveniently overlooking the main article about the war. Following quote is from the main article
"India crossed the International Border on the Western front on September 6, marking an official beginning of the war.[11] On September 6, the 15th Infantry Division of the Indian Army, under World War II veteran Major General Prasad, battled a massive counterattack by Pakistan near the west bank of the Ichogil Canal (BRB Canal), which was a de facto border of India and Pakistan. The General's entourage itself was ambushed and he was forced to flee his vehicle. A second, this time successful, attempt to cross the Ichhogil Canal was made over the bridge in the village of Barki, just east of Lahore. These developments brought the Indian Army within the range of Lahore International Airport. As a result, the United States requested a temporary ceasefire to allow it to evacuate its citizens in Lahore.However,the Pakistani counter attack took Khem Karan from Indian forces which tried to divert the attention of Pakistanis from Khem Karan by an attack on Bedian and the adjacent villages."

After lots of up & downs finally
"The war was heading for a stalemate, with both nations holding territory of the other. The Indian army suffered 3,000 battlefield deaths, while Pakistan suffered no less than 3,800. The Indian army was in possession of 710 mile&#178; (1,840 km&#178 of Pakistani territory and the Pakistan army held 210 mile&#178; (545 km&#178 of Indian territory. The territory occupied by India was mainly in the fertile Sialkot, Lahore and Kashmir sectors,[16] while Pakistani land gains were primarily in deserts opposite Sindh and in Chumb, in the northern sector.[17]"


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## adm_havemercy

Mav3rick said:


> Patriotism is good but being blind is not!
> 
> This is from Wikipedia alone even though I hate Wikipedia but at this moment cannot be bothered to enlighten you any further:
> 
> "*Indo-Pakistani War of 1947:* Also called the First Kashmir War. The war started in October 1947 when the Maharajah of the princely state of Kashmir and Jammu had failed to accede to either of the newly independent states of Pakistan or India. Armed forces of India attacked and occupied the princely state, forcing the Maharajah to sign the "Agreement to the accession of the princely state to India". When the Maharaja resisted, India airlifted troops to Srinagar where they engaged in a military encounter with local Kashmiri Rebels who wanted the Kashmir to be a part of Pakistan. British appointed Army Chief of Pakistan Douglas Gracey did not send troops to the Kashmir front and refused to obey the order to do so given by Mohammad Ali Jinnah, Governor-General of Pakistan. His argument was that the Indian forces occupying Kashmir represented the British Crown and so did he hence he could not engage in a military encounter with Indian forces. Due to Gracey's disobedience Pakistan lost two third of Kashmir to India. The United Nations was then invited by Pakistan to mediate the quarrel. The UN mission insisted that the opinion of Kashmiris must be ascertained, The UN Security Council passed Resolution 47 on April 21, 1948. The resolution stated "that the final disposition of the State of Jammu and Kashmir will be made in accordance with the will of the people expressed through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite conducted under the auspices of the United Nations".[citation needed] India insisted that no referendum could occur because they could lose Kashmir to Pakistan due to large Muslim Population. The war ended in December 1948 with the Line of Control dividing the erstwhile princely state into territories administered by Pakistan (northern and western areas) and India (southern, central and northeastern areas).
> 
> *Indo-Pakistani War of 1965:* Also called The Second Kashmir War, started following of Pakistan's Operation Gibraltar, which was designed to infiltrate forces into Jammu and Kashmir to precipitate an insurgency against rule by India. India retaliated by launching an attack on Pakistan thus igniting the war. The five-week war caused thousands of casualties on both sides and was witness to the largest tank battle in military history since World War II. India took a historical beating by the hands of the Pakistani army. Even today India&#8217;s top military thinker Ravi Rikhye admits that Khem Karan had the potential to be India&#8217;s Fourth Battle of Panipat. It ended in a United Nations (UN) mandated ceasefire and the subsequent issuance of the Tashkent Declaration.
> 
> *Indo-Pakistani War of 1971:* The third war was unique in that it did not involve the issue of Kashmir, but was rather precipitated by the crisis brewing in East Pakistan. After months of internal conflict, Bengali-majority East Pakistan wanted to break away from Pakistan and demanded independence. India saw this as an oppurtuinty to take revenge and sent their trained terrorists called Mukti Bahini across the border into East Pakistan much to the consternation of West Pakistan. Mukti Bahini acted as fuel to fire in the movement of civil disobedience by carrying out various terrorist activites and blamed them on Pakistani Armed forces such as the alleged large-scale genocidal atrocities[1][2][3]. Pakistani forces trapped in East Pakistan with supplies becoming scarce surrendered on the eastern front. The war resulted in the creation of Bangladesh. This war, saw the highest number of casualties in any of the India-Pakistan conflicts, as well as the largest number of Prisoners of War since the Second World War after the surrender of nearly 90,000 Pakistani troops and civilians. It is believed that 1,000,000-3,000,000 Bangladeshis were killed as a result of this war.
> 
> *Indo-Pakistani War of 1999:* Also known as Kargil War is considered a minor war because fighting was limited to a single front in Kashmir; though it produced stirring emotions between the two nations involved, coming at a time of increased media and electronic coverage. This was the second and most recent ground war between any two nations after they had developed nuclear weapons, after the Sino-Soviet border conflict. Pakistani troops along with Kashmiri insurgents occupied Indian army posts across the Line of Control (LoC) and began shelling Indian positions. If Pakistan had been able to capture Kargil they could easily take Kashmir but United States intervened hence Pakistan was forced to draw its forces back across the LoC."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I mean like in 1965 when PAF shot down over 100 Indian Jets while losing only around 30 of her own. And in 1971 when IAF destroyed only grounded planes in west Pakistan while losing almost every dogfight in eastern Pakistan, must I advise you that in 1971 because of mutiny PAF in west Pakistan wasn't allowed to man their planes!
> 
> And in 1999 Pakistan Military did not actively participate the the conflict, the purpose of Kargil episode was to get the world's attention towards a very real problem in Kashmir dispute, almost the only major issue because of which we have fought 3 wars. You have forced me to shame you by reminding you that a handful of Mujahideen not only kept the Indian Army and the Indian Air Force at bay but also held their ground until you begged the US and UNO to intervene which politically forced Pakistan to stop supplies to the Mujahideen who eventually had to retreat as their ammo depleted and supplies exhausted. The only victory you can really enjoy was murdering the retreating Mujahideen who had nothing left to fight back with!
> 
> In honesty the handful of Mujahideen raped your Army mostly because of their strategic location and passion till they ran out of support and supplies. Well if all the above makes you proud then be it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aah *sigh* ........ sadly not the same as yours.




1) 1965 war was an evenly fought war . mainly due to the fact that india had just lost a war with china becoz of the non voilent actions of jawaharlal nehru . he spent as little as possible on defence and you all know that . he said that if we are not hostile to anyone , then no one will be hostile to us but as we know everyone is not like us . so india faced a crushing defeat . we admit that . we were trying to pick ourself up when pakistan attacked . but still we withstood it . 
also about your heroic paf pilots . i dont mean that they are bad . they are good no doubt . also this is also true that india lost around 120 planes and you lost around 40 . now hear the bitter truth .iaf had better killing ratio in the sky . do some net surfing and you will find out . you bambarded our airfields and destroyed our aircraft STANDING there . but as i said earlier it was evenly fought .

2) 1971 war - believe it or not you were crushed in that war .

3) 1999 conflict - not mujahideen but pakistan army soldiers occupied our posts so we had to get them free . even in that case you had far more casualties . your own PM at that time said so . our soldiers got those posts free for us and not UN . even your army refused to take back the bodies of their dead soldiers . it was such a big war for us that after we killed every intruder ( i.e. won the conflict ) our economy ( sensex ) got up like a rocket .

enough sleeping . get up


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## metalfalcon

*Just TOO BAD. * 
*
The Topic is about Failed Indian Diplomacy after 26/11 to isolate Pakistan and Indians are trying to derail the Topic By Using an Old Stupid tool of Claiming that they won all the wars. *

*I request These Indian Members to post their views in History section not here.*
*
They (Indians) have Failed in their Blame Game and Have Lost a Diplomatic War to Corner Pakistan From Rest of the world and They Have also Failed to Declare Pakistan A Terrorist State.* 
*
Everyone is Supporting Pakistan and India has Been Ignored and Now few  Indian Members are Trying to Derail the topic and Hide their Failures. *


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## adm_havemercy

metalfalcon said:


> *Just TOO BAD. *
> *
> The Topic is about Failed Indian Diplomacy after 26/11 to isolate Pakistan and Indians are trying to derail the Topic By Using an Old Stupid tool of Claiming that they won all the wars. *
> 
> *I request These Indian Members to post their views in History section not here.*
> *
> They (Indians) have Failed in their Blame Game and Have Lost a Diplomatic War to Corner Pakistan From Rest of the world and They Have also Failed to Declare Pakistan A Terrorist State.*
> *
> Everyone is Supporting Pakistan and India has Been Ignored and Now few  Indian Members are Trying to Derail the topic and Hide their Failures. *



it was not a failure metal falcon sir .
your country has nodded to the fact that mumbai killings were planned in pakistan . 
its a small step in the right direction .


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## foofighter

metalfalcon said:


> *Just TOO BAD. *
> *
> They (Indians) have Failed in their Blame Game and Have Lost a Diplomatic War to Corner Pakistan From Rest of the world and They Have also Failed to Declare Pakistan A Terrorist State.[/COLOR]*
> *
> Everyone is Supporting Pakistan and India has Been Ignored and Now few  Indian Members are Trying to Derail the topic and Hide their Failures. *



Pakistan was MADE to accept its guilt. And it did thanx to well-minded leader who despite being elected out of sympathy, knows his s h i t well. 



> bollywood makes everythingh bigger



Yea thats why you Pakistanis keep running to India, to look for career in bollywood, only to be threatened to return home. So much for dignity. 



> Instead of small size, Economy and Military Power, we Pakistanis have Managed to Thrust you Back whenever you Aimed of Conquering our Cities.



Precisely why East Pakistan is now called Bangladesh, and recieves substantial aid from India. Feeling left out? Dont worry, we will donate you some, but first dismantle terror infrastructure. Then you can have all the aid you want. Trust me your Muslim brothers here, will be glad to throw out some cash at a crippling nation.



> Chinese Thrashed you in 1962, This is your Credibility, when you get to fight with Someone who is of same size as yours.



You guys aint got balls to step up for yourself, that you need to give Chinese a blank cheque? Try sending in a dove instead of fanatic terrorists, kiling innocents in the name of "freedom struggle".


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## Bull

Neo what have you done to this forum ....lol.


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## metalfalcon

adm_havemercy said:


> it was not a failure metal falcon sir .
> your country has nodded to the fact that mumbai killings were planned in pakistan .
> its a small step in the right direction .



*We acted when India Responded Positively, When your Attitude changed, when your Tone changed, When you showed us you are ready to co-operate. *

*When Proofs and all the information was given to Pakistan, we acted as we should and we carried out our own Investigations and showed to you and to the whole world that Only Pakistani Soil was used in 26/11 BUT Terrorists used Resources of 13 Countries. *

Even India has Appreciated our Efforts and we are waiting for Indian Answers to our 30 + 2 Questions. We want to get rid of These terrorists they are Cancer to us and to the whole world. 

But Indian efforts To Declare Pakistan a* "Terrorist State"* and To *Isolate Pakistan from whole world* and to *Cut AID to Pakistan from USA and West* have just Failed and *India Lost a Diplomatic war on this Front* *But India did Forced Pakistan to Pay Attention to Indian Concerns this time. *


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## metalfalcon

> foofighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan was MADE to accept its guilt. And it did thanx to well-minded leader who despite being elected out of sympathy, knows his s h i t well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is Pakistan's Guilt in 26/11 you tell me, Attacks were carried out by those who carry out attacks on Pakistan and Pakistani armed forces Daily, we are not controlling them but we are trying best to get control on them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea thats why you Pakistanis keep running to India, to look for career in bollywood, only to be threatened to return home. So much for dignity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think Indian Actors have also acted in Pakistani Movies whats wrong in this Talent and Art has no Borders but *People like you Can't Understand this fact*. Your actors also got threatened when they worked in Pakistani Movies. *So much for your Dignity as well when you beat our Comedian who was your guest to Perform in an Indian show. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely why East Pakistan is now called Bangladesh, and recieves substantial aid from India. Feeling left out? Dont worry, we will donate you some, but first dismantle terror infrastructure. Then you can have all the aid you want. Trust me your Muslim brothers here, will be glad to throw out some cash at a crippling nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again an attempt to Derail the topic, by Bringing Bangladesh issue, Ask any Bengali members here he will tell you about his Opinion about you and about Us. And keep your money with you and why dont you see Million of poor people in India (3 Times the whole Population of Pakistan) you have better Places for your Charity. *Let me ask you one thing, Are you Muslim if Yes OK then why don't you give Your charity to Victims of Gujarat (Muslims) Victims of Barbari Masjid (Muslim) Victims of Indian terrorism in Kashmir (Muslims), We dont need Your Money, You Are so Rich then take care of those people In India Who are Rats and Drinking Cow Piss. Throw your Cash In Watching Mujras, Red Light Areas Or whatever but don't use the F***K word throw On us, Mind it, We Pakistani wont even Piss on Your Aid, Our Piss Deserves Something better than Your Money.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You guys aint got balls to step up for yourself, that you need to give Chinese a blank cheque? Try sending in a dove instead of fanatic terrorists, kiling innocents in the name of "freedom struggle".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *We Know about your Pair of Balls  VERY well  . You Come to our Borders stay there (after parliament attack) but you ain't got Balls to Fire a Bullet, You give us a Deadline to attack us (30 days after 26/11) and then you just Do show up that shows about the credibility and efficiency of your Balls*.
Click to expand...

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## Jihad

rave said:


> WTF can a different person can do?declare jihad ?throw nukes?
> WTF can he do?
> 
> 
> 
> So what if he is a MUSLIM?.Who cares if you have that "ISLAMIC" tag attached you get a sense of holiness and immuntiy from the residents of other countries.Enemy is an enemy who should be annihilated .be it any
> 
> God save the country that jinnah created from likes of people like you



He can do anything except giving in to India's irrational and rude demands.
I'm saying, he (foofighter) can be proud of being Indian and all, but I ask myself why lol, I think he is lost or has self esteem issues.
Also, your last line doesn't really hurt me, I think mr. Jinnah needs people like me who do not wish to live like slaves next to a neighbour who thinks it is the next big superpower.


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## Jihad

Bull said:


> Neo what have you done to this forum ....lol.



Yeah, it seems our Indian friends cannot take criticism or cannot prove their points in a normal manner without playing the blame game on Pakistan once again.
Why can't certain Indians on this board accept the realities like us Pakistanis who accept ours and our failures aswell from our government (i'm sure there were some failures) during Mumbai.

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## was

enough i,m not going to argue with hard-nosed indians.it,s only a waste of time and energy


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## Jihad

metalfalcon said:


> What is Pakistan's Guilt in 26/11 you tell me, Attacks were carried out by those who carry out attacks on Pakistan and Pakistani armed forces Daily, we are not controlling them but we are trying best to get control on them.
> 
> 
> 
> I think Indian Actors have also acted in Pakistani Movies whats wrong in this Talent and Art has no Borders but *People like you Can't Understand this fact*. Your actors also got threatened when they worked in Pakistani Movies. *So much for your Dignity as well when you beat our Comedian who was your guest to Perform in an Indian show. *
> 
> 
> 
> Again an attempt to Derail the topic, by Bringing Bangladesh issue, Ask any Bengali members here he will tell you about his Opinion about you and about Us. And keep your money with you and why dont you see Million of poor people in India (3 Times the whole Population of Pakistan) you have better Places for your Charity. *Let me ask you one thing, Are you Muslim if Yes OK then why don't you give Your charity to Victims of Gujarat (Muslims) Victims of Barbari Masjid (Muslim) Victims of Indian terrorism in Kashmir (Muslims), We dont need Your Money, You Are so Rich then take care of those people In India Who are Rats and Drinking Cow Piss. Throw your Cash In Watching Mujras, Red Light Areas Or whatever but don't use the F***K word throw On us, Mind it, We Pakistani wont even Piss on Your Aid, Our Piss Deserves Something better than Your Money.*
> 
> 
> 
> *We Know about your Pair of Balls  VERY well  . You Come to our Borders stay there (after parliament attack) but you ain't got Balls to Fire a Bullet, You give us a Deadline to attack us (30 days after 26/11) and then you just Do show up that shows about the credibility and efficiency of your Balls*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great post, and all I have to say on your last paragraph is, owned.
> People talk about "balls", jeez.
Click to expand...


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## was

foofighter said:


> Pakistan was MADE to accept its guilt. And it did thanx to well-minded leader who despite being elected out of sympathy, knows his s h i t well.
> 
> 
> 
> *Yea thats why you Pakistanis keep running to India, to look for career in bollywood, only to be threatened to return home. So much for dignity.
> *
> 
> 
> Precisely why East Pakistan is now called Bangladesh, and recieves substantial aid from India. Feeling left out? Dont worry, we will donate you some, but first dismantle terror infrastructure. Then you can have all the aid you want. Trust me your Muslim brothers here, will be glad to throw out some cash at a crippling nation.
> 
> 
> 
> You guys aint got balls to step up for yourself, that you need to give Chinese a blank cheque? Try sending in a dove instead of fanatic terrorists, kiling innocents in the name of "freedom struggle".



we pakistanis???
if few idiots go to india for money it deos not mean that we pakistanis are crazy for your low quality crappy bollywood.
there are indian artists hwo comes to pakistan.
and by the way you indians liked the pakistanis who came to india.
atif aslam is one example


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## Khajur

metalfalcon said:


> What is Pakistan's Guilt in 26/11 you tell me, Attacks were carried out by those who carry out attacks on Pakistan and Pakistani armed forces Daily, we are not controlling them but we are trying best to get control on them.
> 
> 
> 
> I think Indian Actors have also acted in Pakistani Movies whats wrong in this Talent and Art has no Borders but *People like you Can't Understand this fact*. Your actors also got threatened when they worked in Pakistani Movies. *So much for your Dignity as well when you beat our Comedian who was your guest to Perform in an Indian show. *
> 
> 
> 
> Again an attempt to Derail the topic, by Bringing Bangladesh issue, Ask any Bengali members here he will tell you about his Opinion about you and about Us. And keep your money with you and why dont you see Million of poor people in India (3 Times the whole Population of Pakistan) you have better Places for your Charity. *Let me ask you one thing, Are you Muslim if Yes OK then why don't you give Your charity to Victims of Gujarat (Muslims) Victims of Barbari Masjid (Muslim) Victims of Indian terrorism in Kashmir (Muslims), We dont need Your Money, You Are so Rich then take care of those people In India Who are Rats and Drinking Cow Piss. Throw your Cash In Watching Mujras, Red Light Areas Or whatever but don't use the F***K word throw On us, Mind it, We Pakistani wont even Piss on Your Aid, Our Piss Deserves Something better than Your Money.*
> 
> 
> 
> *We Know about your Pair of Balls  VERY well  . You Come to our Borders stay there (after parliament attack) but you ain't got Balls to Fire a Bullet, You give us a Deadline to attack us (30 days after 26/11) and then you just Do show up that shows about the credibility and efficiency of your Balls*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me tell u one big secret why india didnt attack after 26/11...
> 
> Since it knows pakistan is going down to path of destruction & break up on its own by many monster its dangerous policies have created for the past many decades,India simply gonna just watch clamly while pakistan slowly eats up itself and vanish in to oblivion.Even ur experts are also concerned as they too see this loomimg in the horizon.
> 
> *And well let me tell u ,India knows its not wise try to kill ur enemy while doing its best to commit suicide...*
> 
> So next time u worry urself why india isnt attacking pakistan despite many Provocations u can recall above paragraph.
Click to expand...


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## MastanKhan

foofighter said:


> Haha! Fascinating. After reading you entire post I can say , all you have done is take the best anti-pakistan speeches, and quotes from world leader, and replaced Pakistan's name with India. Try as hard as you wish, its not gonna change the fact that Pakistan has 70&#37; of world terror emenating from its soil, most of it affecting India.
> 
> 
> Which world do you live in? You mean persuading Pakistan to change its denial within 79 days, go from saying "Kasab is not a Pakistani" to actually accepting in front of the world that all the terrorists were Pakistans and attack was planned and executed from Pakistan, is India's failure?
> 
> Wow, I'm spell bounded. I wonder if making Pakistan act just short of actual war is not a success, then what is?





Hello,

A little more respect is expected when you adress the admins on this board. Their post may not be to your liking or otherwise---please remember it is the pakistani defence web-site---not and indian site. Indeed the articles here would be favouring pakistan. 

Please slow down and be nice. Thanks.

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## Dosti

Hello Brother

Since when have we started listening to the rule of law ? Our Dictators have terminated Judges summerily ...so why do you think they will punish the culprits...After all these years of independance we do not have reliable democracy,Judiciary,Bureacracy and the lagislature ??? Why dont we start looking at ourselves then look and pin point worngs of India or the USA.
If we do not start introspecting and keep arguing with others Iam sure we are all doomed as a countery.

Give it a serious thought .

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## foofighter

You dont need US experts to tell you that.


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## metalfalcon

Khajur said:


> metalfalcon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me tell u one big secret why india didnt attack after 26/11...
> 
> Since it knows pakistan is going down to path of destruction & break up on its own by many monster its dangerous policies have created for the past many decades,India simply gonna just watch clamly while pakistan slowly eats up itself and vanish in to oblivion.Even ur experts are also concerned as they too see this loomimg in the horizon.
> 
> *And well let me tell u ,India knows its not wise try to kill ur enemy while doing its best to commit suicide...*
> 
> So next time u worry urself why india isnt attacking pakistan despite many Provocations u can recall above paragraph.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next Time you Make an Appointment, DO SHOW UP ON TIME.
Click to expand...


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## Neo

*The thread is moderated, stick to the topic please.
Neo*


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## ajpirzada

*Pakistans FIA may stop 26/11 probe *
PTI

ISLAMABAD, MARCH 7 
Pakistani investigators have informed the government that they may have to stop their probe into the Mumbai attacks due to lack of cooperation by authorities in India and several other countries.
The Federal Investigation Agency, which is probing the Mumbai terror attacks, has informed the Interior Ministry in a letter that it would have custody of some suspects only for a few more days and it was thus imperative to get cooperation from other countries, Dawn News channel quoted its sources as saying.
The FIA said it may have to stop further investigations against the suspects due to the lack of cooperation by India and other countries, the sources said.
There was no immediate word from the Interior Ministry on the issue.
The investigators told the Interior Ministry that they had not received the Indian polices chargesheet against Ajmal Amir Kasab, the lone terrorist captured for the Mumbai attacks, and other suspects.
There was also no response from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the intelligence agencies of Spain, United Arab Emirates, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia for requests from Pakistan for information related to the terrorists involved in the attacks. 
The FIA had approached these foreign agencies for vital information through Pakistans Foreign Office, the sources said.
The FBI had been requested to help obtain information from Google and Yahoo on two email accounts used by the suspects.
Any further delay in obtaining information from the other countries can affect the probe as the Pakistani suspects would be sent to jail from FIAs custody once their remand period ended. The sources said no suspect can be kept with police or intelligence agencies for more than 30 days.
Pakistani authorities have arrested six suspects in connection with the Mumbai attacks. 
Four of these suspects  Lashker-e-Taiba activists Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, Zarar Shah, Abu al Qama and Hamad Amin Sadiq  have been remanded to the FIAs custody till March 17 by an anti-terrorism court.
The suspects are facing charges under anti-terror and cyber crime laws. Pakistan officials have said they need further information from India for their successful prosecution. 


oHERALDo :: Pakistans FIA may stop 26/11 probe


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## ajpirzada

*Pakistans FIA may stop 26/11 probe *
PTI

ISLAMABAD, MARCH 7 
Pakistani investigators have informed the government that they may have to stop their probe into the Mumbai attacks due to lack of cooperation by authorities in India and several other countries.
The Federal Investigation Agency, which is probing the Mumbai terror attacks, has informed the Interior Ministry in a letter that it would have custody of some suspects only for a few more days and it was thus imperative to get cooperation from other countries, Dawn News channel quoted its sources as saying.
The FIA said it may have to stop further investigations against the suspects due to the lack of cooperation by India and other countries, the sources said.
There was no immediate word from the Interior Ministry on the issue.
The investigators told the Interior Ministry that they had not received the Indian polices chargesheet against Ajmal Amir Kasab, the lone terrorist captured for the Mumbai attacks, and other suspects.
There was also no response from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the intelligence agencies of Spain, United Arab Emirates, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia for requests from Pakistan for information related to the terrorists involved in the attacks. 
The FIA had approached these foreign agencies for vital information through Pakistans Foreign Office, the sources said.
The FBI had been requested to help obtain information from Google and Yahoo on two email accounts used by the suspects.
Any further delay in obtaining information from the other countries can affect the probe as the Pakistani suspects would be sent to jail from FIAs custody once their remand period ended. The sources said no suspect can be kept with police or intelligence agencies for more than 30 days.
Pakistani authorities have arrested six suspects in connection with the Mumbai attacks. 
Four of these suspects  Lashker-e-Taiba activists Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, Zarar Shah, Abu al Qama and Hamad Amin Sadiq  have been remanded to the FIAs custody till March 17 by an anti-terrorism court.
The suspects are facing charges under anti-terror and cyber crime laws. Pakistan officials have said they need further information from India for their successful prosecution. 


oHERALDo :: Pakistans FIA may stop 26/11 probe


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## Neo

*Seven countries link found in 26/11 Mumbai Attacks: Interpol ​*
8 March, 2009

ISLAMABAD: Interpol Secretary General Ronald K Noble said Interpol did not receive any report from India on Mumbai attacks adding that Pakistan was cooperating with the Interpol firmly.Addressing a joint press conference here with Adviser to the Prime Minister on Interior Rehman Malik, he said India should take the lead in the probe in a bid to resolve the issue as soon as possible.

He said links of the seven different countries, including India, were found in the Mumbai terror attacks during the investigation.

We are trying to help expose the terrorists wherever they are hiding.

During his three-day stay in Islamabad Ronald met Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gillani, Interior Advisor Rehman Malik and the DG Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) Tariq Khosa.

Ronald who himself remained top US law enforcer at various positions including Chief of Staff of the Criminal Division, United States Department of Justice showed his confidence in 26/11 probe being carried out by FIA.

Noble added that Pakistan was providing the Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA) of Mumbai suspects to the Interpol, which would be checked by the global data of the 187 countries maintained by the Interpol.

He said Pakistan understood that unless terrorists-related information was compared against Interpols global database and shared among its global network, an international terrorist investigation can never be considered complete and all countries, which are not provided with this vital information, remain at risk.

On the occasion Rehman said India should reply soon on the 30 questions that Pakistan has forwarded relating to the probe.

He said only 13 days were left in the remand of those arrested in Pakistan for alleged involvement in the attacks adding Pakistan has interrogated Zaki ur Rahman and others but India had not provided the most vital information.

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## SurvivoR

And 6 countries out of Seven except Pakistan, are not cooperating in the probe which is creating hickcups in the probe. It also reveals the true face of India. 


*26/11: Pak investigators may stop probe*
7 Mar 2009, 2045 hrs IST, PTI 




ISLAMABAD: *Pakistani investigators have informed the government that they may have to stop their probe into the Mumbai attacks due to lack of 
cooperation by authorities in India and several other countries*. 

The Federal Investigation Agency, which is probing the Mumbai terror attacks, has informed the interior ministry in a letter that it would have custody of some suspects only for a few more days and it was thus imperative to get cooperation from the other countries, Dawn News channel quoted its sources as saying. 

The FIA said it "may have to stop further investigations" against the suspects due to the lack of cooperation by India and other countries, the sources said. 

There was no immediate word from the interior ministry on the issue. 

*The investigators told the interior ministry that they had not received the Indian police's chargesheet against Ajmal Amir Kasab, the lone terrorist captured for the Mumbai attacks, and other suspects.* 

*There was also no response from the FBI and the intelligence agencies of Spain, United Arab Emirates, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia for requests from Pakistan for information related to the terrorists involved in the attacks.* 


26/11: Pak investigators may stop probe-Pakistan-World-The Times of India


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## gaurysh

This is just a tactic by pakistan govt to break up case... fact still remains primary origin of attack plan is from pakistan and the it was executed by pakistani nationals, with the backing of pakistani agencies and banned organisation


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## Patriot

gaurysh said:


> This is just a tactic by pakistan govt to break up case... fact still remains primary origin of attack plan is from pakistan and the it was executed by pakistani nationals, with the backing of pakistani agencies and banned organisation


DAMN!! I did not know that ISI also controls Interpol.
Man i love ISI

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## gaurysh

saadahmed said:


> DAMN!! I did not know that ISI also controls Interpol.
> Man i love ISI



the report of 7 countries involvement was first brought up by pakistan in thier initiall probe report.. this is not a new report... 
and i had not taken the name of ISI i gues u know who planned the attack very well....
And dont be so proud of ISI ... The acts of ISI has led your country to present crisis.... crisis i don see pakistan getting out of


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## Captain03

gaurysh said:


> the report of 7 countries involvement was first brought up by pakistan in thier initiall probe report.. this is not a new report...
> and i had not taken the name of ISI i gues u know who planned the attack very well....
> And dont be so proud of ISI ... The acts of ISI has led your country to present crisis.... *crisis i don see pakistan getting out of*



lmao who cares what u think 
and its your country's intelligence that's creating havoc in our nation
know ur facts before u make urself look like a fool


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## metalfalcon

gaurysh said:


> This is just a tactic by pakistan govt to break up case... fact still remains primary origin of attack plan is from pakistan and the it was executed by pakistani nationals, with the backing of pakistani agencies and banned organisation



You know what you Indians Just want to hear about Pakistan and ISI nothing else. Now when your Own proofs and evidences are showing that Pakistan and ISI were not involved and the traced phone calls by the Indians have clearly Led Pakistani Authorities to arrest a man from Spain (Spanish Authorities arrested him and handed over to Pakistan). But you will say no no no Only Pakistan,Pakistan,Pakistan,Pakistan and Pakistan. 

If you think Pakistani ISI controls Interpol then what can i do. Interpol chief has clearly said today that the attacks were Planned partially i Repeat partially in Pakistan and many other countries Resource's were also used in these attacks,* But I think Indians are Using Band Pass Filters which allows only the word Pakistan or ISI to enter their Ears and Filters out everything Else . 
*


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## gaurysh

Captain03 said:


> lmao who cares what u think
> and its your country's intelligence that's creating havoc in our nation
> know ur facts before u make urself look like a fool



its your own ISI and army who allowed to grow terror oufits including taliban in your country. N iknow RAW is acting in fuelling crisis in pakistan... but u will get taste of your own medicine....


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## metalfalcon

gaurysh said:


> its your own ISI and army who allowed to grow terror oufits including taliban in your country. N iknow RAW is acting in fuelling crisis in pakistan... but u will get taste of your own medicine....



*Again you are using Band Pass Filters and you have filtered out Involvement of CIA and America in Establishment of Taliban*.Osama Bin Ladin was Trained by CIA. He was Sent to Afghanistan by CIA to Fight against the Soviet Union. 



> iknow RAW is acting in fuelling crisis in pakistan... but u will get taste of your own medicine..



Well RAW is increasing Problems for Pakistan and you will (soon) see how your Medicine Invented by RAW will taste like. You think you will just run away without any consequences ?


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## Torpedo

Well, 7 countries or 70.

It doesn't make much difference NOW.

For Pakistan, the damage done is done. Every action from Pakistan will be seen in the light of past incidents. And the light these incidents shade is pretty gray.


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## Captain03

gaurysh said:


> its your own ISI and army who allowed to grow terror oufits including taliban in your country. N iknow RAW is acting in fuelling crisis in pakistan...* but u will get taste of your own medicine....*



our own medicine?
the isi and the cia supported and armed the taliban so afghanistan wouldnt be under soviet control
what happened after that was in no ones control and became a shock to the world
the isi has no hand in supporting the taliban in pakistan [y would one agency go against its own government ]
know ur history kid


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## Omar1984

gaurysh said:


> the report of 7 countries involvement was first brought up by pakistan in thier initiall probe report.. this is not a new report...
> and i had not taken the name of ISI i gues u know who planned the attack very well....
> And dont be so proud of ISI ... The acts of ISI has led your country to present crisis.... crisis i don see pakistan getting out of



Interpol Secretary General Ronald K Noble.....now that name doesn't sound Pakistani to me. 

A non-Pakistani is saying seven countries are involved.

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## koolio

Gaurysh can you please explain what the Interpol chief was doing in Pakistan?

Its poeple like you who are sucked into Pak phobia why would Pakistan break up the case your own pathetic government hiding all excuses even refused to share Ajmal Kasabs DNA evidence with Pakistan if your government has nothing to hide why is it refusing to the share evidence?


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## metalfalcon

Torpedo said:


> Well, 7 countries or 70.
> 
> It doesn't make much difference NOW.
> 
> For Pakistan, the damage done is done. Every action from Pakistan will be seen in the light of past incidents. And the light these incidents shade is pretty gray.



So you are blaming only Pakistan, You cannot Blame others for their Involvement Wow that's great, May be you don't have Balls to ask other Nations to Handover Suspects to India.

You can show your Military and Diplomatic Muscles only to Pakistan and Other Small Neighboring countries but You will never ask USA or UK and 5 other countries who were also Involved in this Incident actually the Point is no Country was Involved in this Incident and these Terrorists used every Resource they had and every Individual they had across the Globe so Why to Blame Pakistan Only.

Pakistan Had requested Spanish Authorities to arrest one man accused in this incident and Hand over him to Pakistan and now he is in Pakistani Custody. We did all we could but you just want Pakistan to be accountable for all the acts. Let me tell you one thing, you have already Lost a Diplomatic War to Isolate Pakistan and Declare Pakistan to Be a Terrorist state.


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## gaurysh

If your nation is not involved in terrorists attck on mumbai y your organistion was banned by UN after the attack??? y JUD was Banned??

Koolio the fact is pakistans has banned terror organistations not ours... N about our diplomacy to make world declare terrorist state we don have to do anything... Pakistan itself is moving towards the direction... India does not have to do anything


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## gaurysh

metalfalcon said:


> *Again you are using Band Pass Filters and you have filtered out Involvement of CIA and America in Establishment of Taliban*.Osama Bin Ladin was Trained by CIA. He was Sent to Afghanistan by CIA to Fight against the Soviet Union.
> 
> 
> 
> Well RAW is increasing Problems for Pakistan and you will (soon) see how your Medicine Invented by RAW will taste like. You think you will just run away without any consequences ?



See ground reality ...who is suffering more.. Who supported terror outfits... The involvement of 7 countries does not means that those countries or their govt or their involved... m filtering everything other than pakistan because whole world knows mumbai attack was master planned in pakisatn and by pakistan agencies..... so no need to drag any other country in it.... i agree links are found with 7 other countries but when u have the result that the attack was plotted in pakistan and which was accepted by your govt then no need to divert attention of the case other than pakistan....


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## gaurysh

I guess you people are acting like pakistan govt...... Pm says somethin.... Pres says somethin army chief says somethin... navy chief says somethin.... Ground reality is since mumbai attack s pakistan is suffering .... not India... so who is getting the taste of own medicine???

V did not start terror outfits in our country directed towards pakistan.. But pakistan did... Pakistan started war of terror with India for last 2 decades... now pakistan itself has to face the consequences


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## Captain03

gaurysh said:


> I guess you people are acting like pakistan govt...... Pm says somethin.... Pres says somethin army chief says somethin... navy chief says somethin.... Ground reality is since mumbai attack s pakistan is suffering .... not India... so who is getting the taste of own medicine???
> 
> *V did not start terror outfits in our country directed towards pakistan.. *But pakistan did... Pakistan started war of terror with India for last 2 decades... now pakistan itself has to face the consequences



this shows how small ur knowledge is about indo-pak relations
please search up ur history and then post in this thread

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## Torpedo

metalfalcon said:


> So you are blaming only Pakistan, You cannot Blame others for their Involvement Wow that's great, May be you don't have Balls to ask other Nations to Handover Suspects to India.
> 
> You can show your Military and Diplomatic Muscles only to Pakistan and Other Small Neighboring countries but You will never ask USA or UK and 5 other countries who were also Involved in this Incident actually the Point is no Country was Involved in this Incident and these Terrorists used every Resource they had and every Individual they had across the Globe so Why to Blame Pakistan Only.
> 
> Pakistan Had requested Spanish Authorities to arrest one man accused in this incident and Hand over him to Pakistan and now he is in Pakistani Custody. We did all we could but you just want Pakistan to be accountable for all the acts. Let me tell you one thing, you have already Lost a Diplomatic War to Isolate Pakistan and Declare Pakistan to Be a Terrorist state.



Your anger only proves my point.

Damage is already done to Pakistan. No matter which countries India blames now.


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## Bhishma

Spread the blame - spread it far, spread it wide. That is the next logical step from complete denial, good sir.


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## Patriot

gaurysh said:


> I guess you people are acting like pakistan govt...... Pm says somethin.... Pres says somethin army chief says somethin... navy chief says somethin.... Ground reality is since mumbai attack s pakistan is suffering .... not India... so who is getting the taste of own medicine???
> 
> *V did not start terror outfits in our country directed towards pakistan.. But pakistan did... Pakistan started war of terror with India for last 2 decades... now pakistan itself has to face the consequences*


Is this some sort of joke?Who trained Mukthi Bahni back in 70?

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## ANDUBYLL

Jihad Inc is an international business nowadays !! 
Rainbow coliation or the United colors of Terrorism - its coordinated across multi countries and nations ! 
Gives outsourcing a whole new meaning !


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## dabong1

India has failed to provide Mumbai report to Interpol

* Interpol chief says agency has information on those who planned, facilitated, funded Mumbai attacks 
* Interior adviser urges India to respond quickly to Pakistans queries

By Tahir Niaz

ISLAMABAD: Visiting Interpol General Secretary Richard K Noble on Sunday called on India to take the lead in investigations into the Mumbai attacks, saying Indian authorities had so far failed to provide any report to Interpol. 

Addressing a press conference with Interior Adviser Rehman Malik, the secretary general said Interpol had information of paramount importance that would help Pakistans Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) determine the full dimensions of the Mumbai attacks.

Information: For the first time, we have detailed information on telephone numbers, bank accounts used in terrorist financing as well as internet addresses and the equipment and materials used to perpetrate these attacks, Noble said.

He said all of the information was being checked against Interpols global databases to determine what international links might exist. For the first time, we have police information on those who planned, facilitated and funded those attacks.

The Interpol chief said they had sent key leads and information received from Pakistan to all of Interpols 187 member countries so that they could better protect their citizens and provide valuable information to Pakistan.

He said Pakistan would provide Interpol the DNA profiles that Islamabad obtained during its investigation into the Mumbai attacks. The profiles will be compared against the worlds only global DNA database containing more than 83,000 DNA profiles, he said. In order for these comparisons to be complete India will be required to send Interpol the DNA profiles that they obtained in their investigation.

He said Pakistani authorities cooperation following the Mumbai attacks had been nothing short of extraordinary, adding Islamabad had shown integrity by publicly admitting that the Mumbai attacks had been partly planned in the country.

Noble said seven countries, including India and some European states, were used for perpetrating the attacks.

The Interpol chief said Pakistan and its people were hit the worst by terrorism and the world stood with them in the war on terror.

Commenting on the Lahore terror attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team, he said it had some similarity with the Mumbai attacks, but nothing could be ascertained until he discussed the matter with the local officials.

Response: Earlier, Interior Adviser Rehman Malik urged India to reply to 30 questions by Pakistan relating to the Mumbai attacks at the earliest.

The adviser said only 13 days were left of the remand of the Mumbai attacks accused held in Pakistan, adding that Pakistan was awaiting Indias response. 

Indian authorities should share the information details asked by Pakistan regarding the progress into the probe, Malik said. India should provide evidence and investigation details as soon as possible.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## gaurysh

Captain03 said:


> this shows how small ur knowledge is about indo-pak relations
> please search up ur history and then post in this thread



If you people have great kwoledge and if u people are smart go and share some knowledge with the terror oufits operating in your country go and start counselling business in pakistan educate some of your nationals who have become millitants... Bring them towards peace and harmony.... 

I am not a historian nor do i have great knowledge of India pakistan relation in deep ... but i know the present situation and m talking about that...


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## metalfalcon

Torpedo said:


> Your anger only proves my point.
> 
> *Damage is already done to Pakistan*. No matter which countries India blames now.



 In your Wet dreams only.

Pakistan has proved that Pakistani Govt or Army/ISI were not Involved in this act and Only Terrorists who Target Pakistani People and Pakistani Army as well were involved in this and no Evidence provided by India has Convinced Interpol that Pakistan Army or ISI were involved in this act.


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## metalfalcon

> gaurysh said:
> 
> 
> 
> See ground reality ...who is suffering more.. Who supported terror outfits... *The involvement of 7 countries does not means that those countries or their govt or their involved.*..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why in the case of Pakistan, you say that Pakistani Govt is involved Pakistani Army/ISI is involved where as when it comes to other countries you say there Govt was not Involved, same is the case here in Pakistan but you don't want to Listen and Understand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m filtering everything other than pakistan because whole world knows mumbai attack was master planned in pakisatn and by *pakistan agencies*.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only Claimed by Indians, Not by Interpol or by rest of the world. Just provide any reliable source that says Pakistani agencies were Involved in 26/11.
> 
> It was a Indian Claim that has been proved False not only by Pakistan but by Interpol as well. If you Think we kept Chief of Interpol on GUN POINT to say the above mentioned statement then there is nothing i can do to explain more to you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so no need to drag any other country in it.... i agree links are found with 7 other countries but when u have the result that the attack was plotted in pakistan and which was accepted by your govt then no need to divert attention of the case other than pakistan....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its a reality Dude, we are not diverting anything, For your Kind information All the accused are in Pakistani Custody and We are Waiting for Indian Response to our 30 questions. India needs to co-operate otherwise all the accused will be set free.
Click to expand...


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## dabong1

gaurysh said:


> If your nation is not involved in terrorists attck on mumbai y your organistion was banned by UN after the attack??? y JUD was Banned??



LOL ......it took the sales out of wind though.......by the way we could have blocked the motion with chinese help if we wanted but we let it go through.
JuD still exist and will appear soon under a new name.



gaurysh said:


> Koolio the fact is pakistans has banned terror organistations not ours... N about our diplomacy to make world declare terrorist state we don have to do anything... Pakistan itself is moving towards the direction... India does not have to do anything



You have been trying for the last two decades to get pakistan labeled a terrorist state and have failed....miserably


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## Captain03

gaurysh said:


> If you people have great kwoledge and if u people are smart go and share some knowledge with the terror oufits operating in your country go and start counselling business in pakistan educate some of your nationals who have become millitants... Bring them towards peace and harmony....
> 
> I am not a historian nor do i have great knowledge of India pakistan relation in deep ... but i know the present situation and m talking about that...



is this supposed to be ur comeback?


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## Neo

*India not want Pakistan to get insight into its intelligence through Interpol ​* 
English_Xinhua 
2009-03-09 


NEW DELHI, March 9 (Xinhua) -- India is reluctant to provide further evidence to Interpol on Mumbai terror attacks fearing it might result in Pakistan gaining insight into its intelligence operations, a senior government official said on Monday.

"India doesn't want Pakistan to gain knowledge of its intelligence operations," the official said, on condition of anonymity.

India has already shared evidence of the Mumbai terror attacks last November with the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) through a Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty with the United States.

"The country is not bound to share any information on the attacks to Interpol until it feels necessary," the official said.

Pakistan has reportedly rejected an offer of assistance from the FBI.

Interpol officials have praised Pakistan's efforts to find the plotters but chided India for not sharing the information with them.

"India has shared information with the FBI, they have kept Interpol largely out of the loop. So far, we have received no information from the government of India or any (Indian) police organization," Interpol official Noble told the media Sunday in Islamabad.

The France-based international police organization has also announced an agreement with Pakistan to aid an investigation into the masterminds behind the Mumbai attacks.

Islamabad has admitted that part of the Mumbai terr plot was hatched on Pakistani soil, but called on India to provide more information about the attacks.

Pakistan has also pledged to provide Interpol with DNA evidence that was recovered, which will be cross-referenced against its global database of 83,000 DNA profiles.

Local news media reported that the evidence included samples from relatives of various Pakistani suspects, including of Ajmal Amir Kasab, the only suspected assailant in custody.

But Noble had said that "in order for these comparisons to be completed, India will be required to send Interpol the DNA profiles that they obtained in their investigation."


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## Neo

*"India has failed to provide Mumbai report to Interpol"
Malik urges India to reply to Pak queries ​*Monday March 09, 2009 

ISLAMABAD: Visiting Interpol General Secretary Richard K Noble on Sunday called on India to take the lead in investigations into the Mumbai attacks, saying Indian authorities had so far failed to provide any report to Interpol.
Addressing a press conference with Interior Adviser Rehman Malik, the secretary general said Interpol had information of paramount importance that would help Pakistans Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) determine the full dimensions of the Mumbai attacks.

Information: For the first time, we have detailed information on telephone numbers, bank accounts used in terrorist financing as well as internet addresses and the equipment and materials used to perpetrate these attacks, Noble said.

He said all of the information was being checked against Interpols global databases to determine what international links might exist. For the first time, we have police information on those who planned, facilitated and funded those attacks.

The Interpol chief said they had sent key leads and information received from Pakistan to all of Interpols 187 member countries so that they could better protect their citizens and provide valuable information to Pakistan.

He said Pakistan would provide Interpol the DNA profiles that Islamabad obtained during its investigation into the Mumbai attacks. The profiles will be compared against the worlds only global DNA database containing more than 83,000 DNA profiles, he said. In order for these comparisons to be complete India will be required to send Interpol the DNA profiles that they obtained in their investigation.

He said Pakistani authorities cooperation following the Mumbai attacks had been nothing short of extraordinary, adding Islamabad had shown integrity by publicly admitting that the Mumbai attacks had been partly planned in the country.

Noble said seven countries, including India and some European states, were used for perpetrating the attacks.

The Interpol chief said Pakistan and its people were hit the worst by terrorism and the world stood with them in the war on terror.

Commenting on the Lahore terror attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team, he said it had some similarity with the Mumbai attacks, but nothing could be ascertained until he discussed the matter with the local officials.

Earlier, Interior Adviser Rehman Malik urged India to reply to 30 questions by Pakistan relating to the Mumbai attacks at the earliest.

The adviser said only 13 days were left of the remand of the Mumbai attacks accused held in Pakistan, adding that Pakistan was awaiting Indias response.

Indian authorities should share the information details asked by Pakistan regarding the progress into the probe, Malik said. India should provide


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## Omar1984

India not want Pakistan to get insight into its intelligence through Interpol 

2009-03-09 

NEW DELHI, March 9 (Xinhua) -- India is reluctant to provide further evidence to Interpol on Mumbai terror attacks fearing it might result in Pakistan gaining insight into its intelligence operations, a senior government official said on Monday. 

"India doesn't want Pakistan to gain knowledge of its intelligence operations," the official said, on condition of anonymity. 

India has already shared evidence of the Mumbai terror attacks last November with the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) through a Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty with the United States. 

"The country is not bound to share any information on the attacks to Interpol until it feels necessary," the official said. 

Pakistan has reportedly rejected an offer of assistance from the FBI. 

Interpol officials have praised Pakistan's efforts to find the plotters but chided India for not sharing the information with them. 

"India has shared information with the FBI, they have kept Interpol largely out of the loop. So far, we have received no information from the government of India or any (Indian) police organization," Interpol official Noble told the media Sunday in Islamabad. 

The France-based international police organization has also announced an agreement with Pakistan to aid an investigation into the masterminds behind the Mumbai attacks. 

Islamabad has admitted that part of the Mumbai terr plot was hatched on Pakistani soil, but called on India to provide more information about the attacks. 

Pakistan has also pledged to provide Interpol with DNA evidence that was recovered, which will be cross-referenced against its global database of 83,000 DNA profiles. 

Local news media reported that the evidence included samples from relatives of various Pakistani suspects, including of Ajmal Amir Kasab, the only suspected assailant in custody. 

But Noble had said that "in order for these comparisons to be completed, India will be required to send Interpol the DNA profiles that they obtained in their investigation."


India not want Pakistan to get insight into its intelligence through Interpol_English_Xinhua


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## Neo

*India should make up its mind!​*
The Interior Adviser Mr Rehman Malik has been endorsed by the visiting Interpol General Secretary Richard K Noble when he called on India to take the lead in investigations into the Mumbai attacks. Mr Maliks complaint was that the Indian authorities had so far failed to provide any report on the attacks to Interpol. What was highlighted in fact was Indias reluctance to answer the 30 questions posed by Pakistan in consequence of its investigation of the dossier received from India.

Mr Malik deserves credit for treating the Indian dossier in a speedy and efficient manner, objectively and without the knee-jerk reaction of denial. In a similar situation, most Pakistani officials would have thought it safe to aggressively deny the charges made by India, as if the truth was disputed between just India and Pakistan. But Mr Malik has won the confidence of India and the international community by the way in which he has handled this matter so far. The verdict on the dossier arrived at by investigators under his charge owned up some facts known to the entire world through Pakistans own free media. Many in Pakistan may have been unsettled by Pakistans official finding that the Mumbai attacks were partly planned inside Pakistan but there is no escaping this fact and Mr Malik has done the right and proper thing by coming clean.

Mr Maliks cooperative attitude should have inclined India to fuller cooperation. But it hasnt. Thus Mr Malik has been forced to say that the persons arrested and now under police questioning might have to be released by the courts of Pakistan. He said: Only 13 days were left of the remand of the Mumbai attacks accused held in Pakistan. The Indian authorities should share the information details asked for by Pakistan [in the form of 30 questions] regarding the progress into the probe. He was supported by the Interpol chief in an indirect way.

Mr Noble said: For the first time, we have detailed information on telephone numbers, bank accounts used in terrorist financing as well as internet addresses and the equipment and materials used to perpetrate these attacks. For the first time, we have police information on those who planned, facilitated and funded those attacks. He said the data provided by Pakistan is being compared to databases around the world and, in order for these comparisons to be complete, India will be required to send Interpol the DNA profiles that they obtained in their investigation.

Why should India hesitate to share information with Pakistan and Interpol? The fact that Pakistan decided to come out of denial was a kind of Indian victory. Why is India reluctant to follow up on this positive achievement? It may not want to be seen as being too friendly to Pakistan because the government in power may want to grab the Indian hate vote in the April-May general elections. But what is the downside to sharing information that is supposed to be damning only to elements in Pakistan? The withholding of information only puts the world community on notice about Indias unwillingness to cooperate.

The time India is taking over the thirty questions is denting its credibility at the international level and causing suspicion to creep into the universal sympathy India had won after the Mumbai attacks. This suspicion will sooner rather than later cause reaction inside Pakistan too, resurrecting the charges made earlier about India stage-managing the attacks to put Pakistan under pressure. Who were the other eight attackers? Were they from Pakistan or were they from India or brought in from countries other than Pakistan to take part in the operation? More lethally, Indias refusal to share information will strengthen the hands of those who believe that Lahores 3/3 attack on the Sri Lankan cricketers too was orchestrated by India.

One doesnt want to indulge in scoring points here. One must congratulate the Interior Adviser Mr Rehman Malik for doing an honest job on the Indian dossier despite public hostility, and commend the government of Pakistan for its wisdom to accept his findings. This should have represented the beginning of genuine cooperation between India and Pakistan, only if India would follow through. If there was any doubt about the sincerity of the 30 questions it has been removed by the Interpol chief on Sunday. India should make up its mind quickly.


----------



## gaurysh

Neo said:


> *"India has failed to provide Mumbai report to Interpol"
> Malik urges India to reply to Pak queries ​*Monday March 09, 2009
> 
> ISLAMABAD: Visiting Interpol General Secretary Richard K Noble on Sunday called on India to take the lead in investigations into the Mumbai attacks, saying Indian authorities had so far failed to provide any report to Interpol.
> Addressing a press conference with Interior Adviser Rehman Malik, the secretary general said Interpol had information of paramount importance that would help Pakistans Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) determine the full dimensions of the Mumbai attacks.
> 
> Information: For the first time, we have detailed information on telephone numbers, bank accounts used in terrorist financing as well as internet addresses and the equipment and materials used to perpetrate these attacks, Noble said.
> 
> He said all of the information was being checked against Interpols global databases to determine what international links might exist. For the first time, we have police information on those who planned, facilitated and funded those attacks.
> 
> The Interpol chief said they had sent key leads and information received from Pakistan to all of Interpols 187 member countries so that they could better protect their citizens and provide valuable information to Pakistan.
> 
> He said Pakistan would provide Interpol the DNA profiles that Islamabad obtained during its investigation into the Mumbai attacks. The profiles will be compared against the worlds only global DNA database containing more than 83,000 DNA profiles, he said. In order for these comparisons to be complete India will be required to send Interpol the DNA profiles that they obtained in their investigation.
> 
> He said Pakistani authorities cooperation following the Mumbai attacks had been nothing short of extraordinary, adding Islamabad had shown integrity by publicly admitting that the Mumbai attacks had been partly planned in the country.
> 
> Noble said seven countries, including India and some European states, were used for perpetrating the attacks.
> 
> The Interpol chief said Pakistan and its people were hit the worst by terrorism and the world stood with them in the war on terror.
> 
> Commenting on the Lahore terror attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team, he said it had some similarity with the Mumbai attacks, but nothing could be ascertained until he discussed the matter with the local officials.
> 
> Earlier, Interior Adviser Rehman Malik urged India to reply to 30 questions by Pakistan relating to the Mumbai attacks at the earliest.
> 
> The adviser said only 13 days were left of the remand of the Mumbai attacks accused held in Pakistan, adding that Pakistan was awaiting Indias response.
> 
> Indian authorities should share the information details asked by Pakistan regarding the progress into the probe, Malik said. India should provide




COOL DOWN FRIENDS UL GET REPLY OVER 30 QUESTIONS SOON...


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## NSG_BlackCats

Pakistan will be getting the reply of it's 30 questions in next 2/3 days. The answers to those questions will have evidence in the form of documents,CDs and forensic report. As per P. Chidambaram home minister GoI he has got the report and has sent it to the External Affairs Ministry. MEA will call the Pakistan High Commisioner and will hand over the report to them.


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## Beskar

*Media warned on Mumbai evidence *

Thursday, 19 March 2009

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Media warned on Mumbai evidence
---------------------------------------------------------------​
*An Indian court has ordered media not to broadcast certain material related to the Mumbai attacks, saying it may jeopardise next week's trial.*

The court did not specify the material but said some evidence had already been "disclosed on television channels" and banned further such broadcasts.

*It is believed it includes intercepted conversations by the alleged gunmen.*

The trial of [sic] Pakistani national Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab and others is scheduled to begin early next week. 

To read more, Visit the link .....

-----------------------------------------

Interesting news which not many people are talking about. This sudden "Warning" to the media was long awaited. For obvious reasons. The Indian court has refused to share the reasons why they've threatened their media, however, one can speculate that it MIGHT be because of the clips I'm providing here. Were they showing reruns of these "breaking news" clips? Yes, I know that these aren't the "Intercepted" calls but the calls that were made to the Indian media by the gunmen.






^ Listen carefully at 0:15. "Julm" and "Jiyadti"? I think this lad was trying to say "Zulam" and "Ziyadati" if he truly was from Pakistan. Somewhere in there he also uses the common Indian word "Shaanti". I don't care what "Qasab" has to say but if ANY body believes that THIS individual was brought up in Pakistan, then clearly they're not connecting the dots right. 

Here's another one. 






This case is still open. Is this the reason why they're warning the media? Because it obviously can't be because of all the "War Hysteria" that was being pumped by their media into the common man's TV screen.


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## DarkStar

To all Pakistani members, who knows the meaning of the word prasashan?


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## Beskar

DarkStar said:


> To all Pakistani members, who knows the meaning of the word prasashan?



I've been to almost every major city in Pakistan. Never heard it in my life. Along with "Jiyadti" and "Shaanti".


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## Gabbar

> Interesting news which not many people are talking about. This sudden "Warning" to the media was long awaited. For obvious reasons. The Indian court has refused to share the reasons why they've threatened their media, however, one can speculate that it MIGHT be because of the clips I'm providing here. Were they showing reruns of these "breaking news" clips?



Sir, gag order are often issued even in the US. If you read the news they are saying why Courts have issues gag order.


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## Beskar

Gabbar said:


> Sir, gag order are often issued even in the US. If you read the news they are saying why Courts have issues gag order.



I'm not denying the fact that such orders are issued in almost every part of the world. I'm simply trying to understand the "Reason" why they're being issued to the Indian media.


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## DarkStar

how many use the words mudh bidh, shanti, prsasaashan, itihaas, parivaar, hamara babri masjid (incorrect grammar), aatank vadi, AK 47, Jindagi, sarkaar, Julm ziaystian, baat karta hay, tumhare ko, paat shalay, vidya shalay, 

It is obvious that the person speaking in the video is Bharatiya, and probably not a muslim either, since there are hardly any Punjabi muslims left in Bharat and the ones that are left do not have such an atrocious accent.

Now don't tell me, that LeT trained them in sanksritized Hindi, while not teaching them simple things like how to launch a grenade.

Absolutely ludcirous.


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## Gabbar

Bezerk said:


> I'm not denying the fact that such orders are issued in almost every part of the world. I'm simply trying to understand the "Reason" why they're being issued to the Indian media.



Court is saying that it may jeprotise the trial because media reports contain some meterial related to his statements. Why it's issued to Indian media only, because Indian courts can only order Indian media not international media.


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## Gabbar

> how many use the words mudh bidh, shanti, prsasaashan, itihaas, parivaar, hamara babri masjid (incorrect grammar), aatank vadi, AK 47, Jindagi, sarkaar, Julm ziaystian, baat karta hay, tumhare ko, paat shalay, vidya shalay,
> 
> It is obvious that the person speaking in the video is Bharatiya.
> 
> Now don't tell me, that LeT trained them in sanksritized Hindi, while not teaching them simple things like how to launch a grenade.
> 
> Absolutely ludcirous.



Could this person be Indian, absolutely becuse media always try increase thier ratings and this applies to both sides.

Or this person could be haox caller and channel fell for it because they desprate to increase thier ratings.


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## Beskar

Gabbar said:


> Court is saying that it may jeprotise the trial because media reports contain some meterial related to his statements. Why it's issued to Indian media only, because Indian courts can only order Indian media not international media.



Yes I'm slightly aware of the reasons why they think it'll "Jeopardize" the trial. You're missing the point here. It's not about "Justifying" their warning to the Indian media but more about the reasons for the sudden warning. 



> Why it's issued to Indian media only, because Indian courts can only order Indian media not international media.



This statement doesn't have anything to do with any post on this thread.


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## Beskar

Gabbar said:


> Could this person be Indian, absolutely becuse media always try increase thier ratings and this applies to both sides.
> 
> Or this person could be haox caller and channel fell for it because they desprate to increase thier ratings.



The 21st century Media is capable enough to trace sensitive incoming calls from their locations using various "Sources" to get confirmations. If that wasn't the case, every other person would be calling CNN claiming that they are Osama Bin Laden.


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## Gulshan

Your government accepted the truth. Now you people speculating all you want. Does not change fact.

The terrorist was told some hindi word by his handler. But his Pakistani accent can be easily recognized.


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## Gabbar

> Bezerk;330860]Yes I'm slightly aware of the reasons why they think it'll "Jeopardize" the trial. You're missing the point here. It's not about "Justifying" their warning to the Indian media but more about the reasons for the sudden warning.



Trial maybe about to begin and government is trying build case right now and I dont see anything wrong with it.




> This statement doesn't have anything to do with any post on this thread



In your post your clearly asked "why it's being issued to Indian media".


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## Gabbar

Gulshan said:


> Your government accepted the truth. Now you people speculating all you want. Does not change fact.
> 
> The terrorist was told some hindi word by his handler. But his Pakistani accent can be easily recognized.



I think they had the right to question Indian media. Weather they deny or accept anything doesn't change anything. Qasab was from Pakistan and so were others and truth will comeout. Dont get frustrated, stay cool.


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## Gulshan

Gabbar said:


> I think they had the right to question Indian media. Weather they deny or accept anything doesn't change anything. Qasab was from Pakistan and so were others and truth will comeout. Dont get frustrated, stay cool.



Son, I am cool. I also work for media. I seen all the video and transcript many times. 

I said, let them speculate. Does not change fact. Did I say wrong?


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## Gulshan

Bezerk said:


> I'm not denying the fact that such orders are issued in almost every part of the world. I'm simply trying to understand the "Reason" why they're being issued to the Indian media.



Matter is sub-judice. Restriction are put on comment during such sensitive time. Sometime media hype and media-trial influence the trial verdict negatively. That is why care is taken.


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## Gabbar

Gulshan said:


> Son, I am cool. I also work for media. I seen all the video and transcript many times.
> 
> I said, let them speculate. Does not change fact. Did I say wrong?



I am not your son, please restrain from making such comments.


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## Gulshan

Gabbar said:


> I am not your son, please restrain from making such comments.



Ha ha. What I should call you? Gabbar Singh? That would be good!


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## AliFarooq

Gulshan said:


> Ha ha. What I should call you? Gabbar Singh? That would be good!



you should call him chacha


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## duhastmish

Most of all - this is India tv - you take them as joke. nobody bloody trust them really. 
More over - I dont know why would a bunch of terrorist will call such a shyt channel which is more of hate spreading Hindu extremist channel.
This call was fake to me - dont believe it


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## linkinpark

What is the point?. It has already been discussed here. They might have been made to talk like that. People also tried point out orange thread to paint it as a 'false flag' operation. In the end, what matters is GoP has accepted them to be Pakistanis and that they came from Pakistan and there is overwhelming evidence to prove just that.

Try to also listen to the conversation between the masterminds and the mumbai attackers on how these masterminds in Pakistan were giving instructions to the attackers.

India Today - India&#039;s most widely read magazine.

I don't understand why people still clinging to crutches.


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## Geromix

Even i don't understand as well why some Pakistani members are sticking to this kind of speculation.This is entirely pointless to discuss then when threads after threads have debated and speculated on this.

The Pakistani government has accepted in its own findings that 26/11 attack originated from Pakistan and Qasab is a Pakistani national.

*This is now a fact.*

It just seems that a few Pakistani members continue to live in denial,the truth is bitter,just swallow if you cant chew on it.


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## dabong1

Geromix said:


> Even i don't understand as well why some Pakistani members are sticking to this kind of speculation.This is entirely pointless to discuss then when threads after threads have debated and speculated on this.
> 
> The Pakistani government has accepted in its own findings that 26/11 attack originated from Pakistan and Qasab is a Pakistani national.
> 
> *This is now a fact.*
> 
> It just seems that a few Pakistani members continue to live in denial,the truth is bitter,just swallow if you cant chew on it.




Where no indians involved in the attack?

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## Contrarian

Oh come on! I thought this was settled. Kasab is Pakistani has been accepted for Christ's sake!


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## SurvivoR

*Pakistan sends DNA profiles of four Mumbak attack suspects to Interpol*
Mon, 2009-03-23 02:35 
By Farzana Shah- Asian Tribune Correspondent in Pakistan 

Islamabad, 23 March, (Asiantribune.com): Pakistan has handed over DNA profiles of four suspects allegedly linked to the Mumbai attacks, to Interpol, the international police agency said Sunday.

According to sources, DNAs of four out of eight accused sent to Interpol also includes DNA of Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi.

According to reports Interpol said from its Lyon, France headquarters that it had received the information on Saturday.

"Pakistan's decision to send its DNA terrorist-related profiles to Interpol so that all member countries can compare their DNA profiles against them sets a benchmark for Interpol in terrorist-related investigations," Interpol Secretary General Ronald K. Noble said in a statement.

The agency said its 187 member countries can also compare their individual DNA databases against the data from Pakistan.

The Interpol statement Sunday didn't specify how or from whom the DNA information was gathered.

It is to be mentioned that about two weeks back Pakistan announced that it will hand over the DNA profiles to Interpol to help determine if there were broader international links to the attacks.

The Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) of Pakistan last month after probing the Mumbai attacks said in its finding that some leads pointed to Europe and the United States.

- Asian Tribune - 

Pakistan sends DNA profiles of four Mumbai suspects to Interpol | Asian Tribune


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## India_loves_peace

Mumbai suspect 'is from Pakistan'


Qasab is alleged to have opened fire on commuters
The sole known surviving suspect from last year's deadly Mumbai attacks has told an Indian court that he is from Pakistan's Punjab province.
Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab appeared before a judge by video link at the start of his trial. He was not in court for security reasons.
He has been charged with "waging war" against India.
More than 170 people died in November's attacks on India's financial capital. Nine gunmen were killed.
India accused Pakistan-based militants from the banned group Lashkar-e-Taiba of carrying out the attacks. Pakistan has admitted they were partly planned on its soil.
Short replies
The accused was arrested on the day of the attacks and has been in Indian custody ever since.
Dressed in a dark t-shirt and sporting a beard, Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab appeared relaxed in his video appearance.

OTHER MAIN QASAB CHARGES
Firing at CST station
Firing inside and outside Cama Hospital
Hijacking of Skoda vehicle
Murder of MV Kuber boatman
Firing at Girgaum Chowpatty beach
He gave short replies to questions asked by judge ML Tahilyani, saying he did not have a lawyer.
"You will need a lawyer. Do you have one? We can provide you a lawyer on government expense, do you accept?" the judge asked him.
"Yes sir," the defendant replied.
The charge sheet relating to November's attacks runs to more than 11,000 pages.
Mr Qasab has been charged under various acts, including murder, attempt to murder and damaging public property.
His trial is to be held in the maximum-security Arthur Road jail. He could face the death penalty if found guilty.
Poor relations
Officials say the charge sheet against Mr Qasab and other accused contains details of evidence pertaining to how the conspiracy was hatched, how the gunmen entered Mumbai and the training in Pakistan.
Mumbai police say they are confident of their case because of the weight of evidence.
Relations between India and Pakistan have worsened considerably since the November attacks.
As well as accusing Lashkar-e-Taiba of being behind them, India suggested that "state actors" in Pakistan were also involved.
Delhi has submitted a list of suspects to Pakistan and demanded they be handed over. Both Pakistan and Lashkar have denied involvement.
However, Pakistan's investigation last month found that at least nine suspected attackers had sailed from Karachi to Mumbai in three boats in November.
Pakistan says it has indicted eight people, six of whom have already been arrested, and that any trials will take place on its soil.
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Mumbai suspect 'is from Pakistan'


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## jetLi

Don't slander, plz give the proof first

Even the suspect come from

plz give the proof that the suspect have any tie with Parkistan's goverment.


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## India_loves_peace

The trial is just started man....
The kasab has accepted he is pakistani...
Pakistan has accepted that he came by the way of karachi...(read above news from BBC) 
I think day will come surely when ties of pakistan govt will also be exposed to all the world....
But that is never an aim of India... 
India wants Pakistan to dismantle the terrorist network in pakistan which is evident to all world.
India wants Pakistan to take care that in future no terrorist will receive training on its soil....


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## koolio

India_loves_peace said:


> The trial is just started man....
> The kasab has accepted he is pakistani...
> Pakistan has accepted that he came by the way of karachi...(read above news from BBC)
> I think day will come surely when ties of pakistan govt will also be exposed to all the world....
> But that is never an aim of India...
> India wants Pakistan to dismantle the terrorist network in pakistan which is evident to all world.
> India wants Pakistan to take care that in future no terrorist will receive training on its soil....



You guys jump on the conclusion right away with the bandwagon waiting for you as soon as it bleeps, Pakistan is awaiting from INTERPOL to see which DNA profile it matches in INTERPOLS database, yet GOI refused to share evidence with INTERPOL it was Pakistan who took the bold decision to send these DNA profiles rather it should have been India, India needs to stop interfering in Internal affairs of Pakistan rather it should dismantle terrorists groups such as RSS, Shiv Sena, Vishwa Hindu parishad you cant expect to tell the person to clean his own plate while your own plate is kept dirty.


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## HAIDER

Again , if court work as summary court and issue death penalty without appeal and hang him. Then where Pakistan investigation stands ? ....This is high profile international case, this person should not hand over to civil court, before Pak complete investigation. Why Indian govt in rush and doing this ?.


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## rubyjackass

Dont worry, I assure you this case will take atleast 5 years as all others in Indian courts


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## SurvivoR

HAIDER said:


> Again , if court work as summary court and issue death penalty without appeal and hang him. Then where Pakistan investigation stands ? ....This is high profile international case, this person should not hand over to civil court, before Pak complete investigation. Why Indian govt in rush and doing this ?.



Why dont they show him on media or air the trial on media lets see if he can realy speak urdu or hindi 

Did anyone here got hold of questioning Kasab was put before by Indian police ?

The conversation is funny once again.


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## SurvivoR

rubyjackass said:


> Dont worry, I assure you this case will take atleast 5 years as all others in Indian courts



And what will be result ? a big *O* !


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## HAIDER

Believe it they will hang him early as possible, because BJP will for sure hang him anyway. If win the election. Because BJP need to bury so many anti muslim hate acts with this case.


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## rubyjackass

If the case closed early it will give less to the BJP to exploit. But considering the attack, it is only reasonable that the case will be decided soon. One of the charges was 'war on India'. Do you expect him to live with that?
Death punishment in India is very very very rare. I dont see it even here. There are many human right groups which cry about it. Their case is that these people are brainwashed. But not much was said about this guy. May be thats because people know the case will take long.

Btw BJP cannot 'hang' Qasab like Zardari could kick Sharif from politics(like ppl say). In India judiciary may be corrupt but, independently from the legislature and executive.


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## HAIDER

But Pakistani govt already receive dead Pakistani nationals from India. Pakistani govt never hand over dead Indians.


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## Bane Blade

How often are these cases actually handed over to neutral lawyers or will he just plead guilty on all counts from a state acting lawyer?


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## wtf

Bane Blade said:


> How often are these cases actually handed over to neutral lawyers or will he just plead guilty on all counts from a state acting lawyer?



That is relevant in this case. Apparently all the lawyers in Mumbai were refusing to take Kasab's side (or those publically willing were intimidated not to).

Kasab is now requesting a court appointed lawyer, who will be named today. Somebody has atleast told him his rights and hopefully the trial will result in the truth.

I need a lawyer: Kasab


And about the concern of pleading guilty to all counts due to state appointed lawyer - Usually the state appointed lawyer is pretty neutral and will take Kasab's side.The prosecution lawyer cannot intimidate the defense (cannot talk to defense without court approval etc.) , Prosecution lawyer is separate from police etc.


The doubts here are to the experience/competence , how good a lawyer will he get etc.


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## Bane Blade

Well if his court case is in New Delhi and people know of some history about the lawyer do share it on the forum folks and thanks wtf lets hope that the real terrorists are caught.


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## wtf

A great editorial in Dawn today on the Mumbai issue etc. 

DAWN.COM | Editorial | PostMumbai-ties-with-India

A FEW years ago a peace process between Pakistan and India was begun. Representatives of the two countries would meet periodically to discuss their disputes. Their agenda being inclusive, the process was called a composite dialogue.

It went through five rounds and then India suspended it following the terrorist attacks in Mumbai on Nov 26, 2008. The Indian government and people believed that the perpetrators had lived in Pakistan and launched their operation from its soil. Pakistans own investigators confirmed this. The culprits, it appeared, had been sponsored, trained, and directed by certain militant organisations (notably Jamaatud Dawa and Lashkar-e-Taiba) located in Pakistan.

Under intense Indian and international pressure, the Pakistan government agreed to go after these organisations, arrested and detained scores of their activists. It undertook to interrogate them and prosecute those against whom evidence of complicity in terrorist acts would be found. Remand was obtained to extend the detention of some of these suspects for further questioning. The government investigators announced plans to prosecute them.

Interrogations continued but no court cases have yet been filed. Officials said they had to have answers to some 30 questions they had addressed to Indian authorities to be able to proceed further with their investigations. This would suggest that the evidence which their interrogations had produced against the suspects was not enough to take them to court. Questions in the dossier handed over to the Indian authorities did not seem to have obvious relevance to the doings of the militants in Pakistani custody, They include for instance, questions relating to DNA tests done on the bodies of the nine terrorists killed in their encounter with the Indian security personnel, the guns they had used, testimony of the man who had witnessed the killing of the chief of the anti-terrorist squad in Mumbai, persons who had blasted the Samjhota Express, Hindu militant organisations and their killings of Indian Muslims.

The matters to which these questions related would seem to be Indias domestic concerns, and it is hard to see why Pakistanis investigating the anti-Indian militant organisations in their own country wanted the information they were demanding. One may wonder what exactly they were investigating. It was said at times that they were probing the Mumbai attacks. The event in question took place on Indian soil. One may say that normally it should have been Indias business to investigate this event. It is not at all clear why Pakistani authorities concluded that it was their business as well.

An explanation comes to mind. Pakistani officials may have wanted to cast doubt on the credibility of Indias version of the Mumbai event, to suggest that it was one-sided, biased, and partial. It is, however, not clear how this would have benefited Pakistan. Another possibility is that they wanted to find reasons to indefinitely postpone or altogether bury the project of prosecuting the militants who were said to have been involved in terrorist acts in India. Recently, India sent Pakistan answers to the questions. It is probable that Pakistani officials will find these answers to be unhelpful.

American and Indian officials have an interpretation that may be noted. Mr Richard Holbrooke, President Obamas special envoy to Pakistan and Afghanistan, suspects that certain officers in this countrys military and the Inter-Services Intelligence are not serious about fighting terrorism.

The Indian foreign minister, Mr Pranab Mukherjee, has indicated that some officials, if not the state of Pakistan, have been sponsoring anti-India terrorist operations. If these allegations are even partially correct, one cannot rule out the possibility that some of the militants, if taken to court, will say that they did what they did with the concurrence and support of Pakistani authorities. That is a chance the officials concerned will not want to take. It is then not unlikely that the stage of prosecuting those involved in the Mumbai carnage will never arrive.

If this is the way things are to go, tension between Pakistan and India will not subside. Nearly four months after Mumbai India is still feeling angry. Its officials say they have waited patiently for a satisfactory Pakistani response but their patience will exhaust some day and they will then hit back. They are not contemplating war, for that would be unacceptably destructive on both sides.

Secure in the belief that India does not have the option of going to war, Pakistani strategists do not consider it necessary to appease India and redress its grievance. Apparently they are not taking cognisance of the possibility that India may take measures short of war that may cause Pakistan a great deal of suffering. It can, for instance, interfere with the flow of water into Pakistans rivers, which originate in territories under Indias control, and thus ruin Pakistani agriculture and food production. Its secret agents can intervene in Pakistans unceasing internal turmoil to further disrupt its politics and society.

Many political observers in Pakistan believe that India has been a sworn enemy of this country from the day of its establishment as an independent state, wants to undo the partition or, failing that, it wants to destroy Pakistan.

There are doubtless certain militant Hindu groups in India that harbour such thoughts. But the same is probably not true of Indian officials, mainstream political parties and opinion makers. They see Pakistan as too troublesome a place to take over. They are reconciled to its separate existence.
*
It is my impression that the dominant elites in India are willing to have Pakistan as a stable neighbour at peace within itself and with the outside world.* It wants Pakistan as a good neighbour, meaning one that accepts its position as a relatively small power, does not insist on being Indias equal and rival, and does not oppose its drive to the role and status of a world power. It wants peace and amity and close cooperative relations with Pakistan, albeit, on these terms. One doubts that these terms will commend themselves to the powers that be in Pakistan in the foreseeable future. It may then be said that relations between these two neighbours are likely to remain under some degree of stress.

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## gubbi

wtf said:


> A great editorial in Dawn today on the Mumbai issue etc.
> 
> DAWN.COM | Editorial | PostMumbai-ties-with-India
> 
> Many political observers in Pakistan believe that India has been a sworn enemy of this country from the day of its establishment as an independent state, wants to undo the partition or, failing that, it wants to destroy Pakistan.
> 
> There are doubtless certain militant Hindu groups in India that harbour such thoughts. But the same is probably not true of Indian officials, mainstream political parties and opinion makers. *They see Pakistan as too troublesome a place to take over. They are reconciled to its separate existence.*
> *
> It is my impression that the dominant elites in India are willing to have Pakistan as a stable neighbour at peace within itself and with the outside world.*



To all those trolls who complain about akhand Bharat, this should put your reservations to rest, especially the part which says "They see Pakistan as too troublesome a place to take over. They are reconciled to its separate existence." Indians are not interested in annexing Pakistani territory nor are do they want to undo partition. Its too much headache for us, plus consider the impact such an action would have on our economy. It would take years if not decades to absorb the pathetic economic conditions presently prevailing not to mention the freelance gunmen freely roaming around.

To all my bros across the border..
"Apne paair itne phelao jitna lamba chadder!"


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## wtf

gubbi said:


> To all those trolls who complain about akhand Bharat, this should put your reservations to rest, especially the part which says "They see Pakistan as too troublesome a place to take over. They are reconciled to its separate existence." Indians are not interested in annexing Pakistani territory nor are do they want to undo partition. Its too much headache for us, plus consider the impact such an action would have on our economy. It would take years if not decades to absorb the pathetic economic conditions presently prevailing not to mention the freelance gunmen freely roaming around.
> 
> To all my bros across the border..
> "Apne paair itne phelao jitna lamba chadder!"




Man! 

My attempt with posting the article was to show that there are peace loving voices on both sides of the fence. It was not my intent to show Pakistan in any sort of bad light. Pakistan is not particularly pathetic situation economically - they were ahead of until the economic reform, they were keeping pace until early last year. Militancy has been tougher on them than us for the year, but hardly something "pathetic". Smaller countries are usually buffeted around by economic crisis more than the larger ones, so the global crisis is harder on them compared to India (Similar to Ukraine/Russia , Dubai/UAE, Iceland/EU etc.).


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## gubbi

wtf said:


> Man!
> 
> My attempt with posting the article was to show that there are peace loving voices on both sides of the fence. It was not my intent to show Pakistan in any sort of bad light. Pakistan is not particularly pathetic situation economically - they were ahead of until the economic reform, they were keeping pace until early last year. Militancy has been tougher on them than us for the year, but hardly something "pathetic". Smaller countries are usually buffeted around by economic crisis more than the larger ones, so the global crisis is harder on them compared to India (Similar to Ukraine/Russia , Dubai/UAE, Iceland/EU etc.).



i do agree with you my friend. I was talking about the economy of Pakistan at this stage, and comparing to a similar situation when East and West Germany got merged. The west German economy was strong but then still they had to absorb the bad east German economy which set their own finances back a few years.

I have also read about a few members reservations about "Akhand Bharat" ideology of some Indian political parties. Thats not gonna happen, as Pakistan is a sovereign nation in its own right with its own problems. The majority in India do not want any part of Pakistan annexed, coz that includes the population as well. Whatever militancy Pakistan is facing today is its own creation, well some 'external hand' may be cause of some incidents, but overall its their headache to be taken care of. Thats all I wanted to say.

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## dabong1

*Secure in the belief that India does not have the option of going to war, Pakistani strategists do not consider it necessary to appease India and redress its grievance. Apparently they are not taking cognisance of the possibility that India may take measures short of war that may cause Pakistan a great deal of suffering. *

Kashmir is the reason pakistan will not address any of indians grievances.


*It can, for instance, interfere with the flow of water into Pakistan&#8217;s rivers, which originate in territories under India&#8217;s control, and thus ruin Pakistani agriculture and food production. Its secret agents can intervene in Pakistan&#8217;s unceasing internal turmoil to further disrupt its politics and society.*

I think you know as well as i do that stopping the water will be the same as declaring war.

*Many political observers in Pakistan believe that India has been a sworn enemy of this country from the day of its establishment as an independent state, wants to undo the partition or, failing that, it wants to destroy Pakistan.*

Yes

*There are doubtless certain militant Hindu groups in India that harbour such thoughts. But the same is probably not true of Indian officials, mainstream political parties and opinion makers. They see Pakistan as too troublesome a place to take over. They are reconciled to its separate existence.*

You make out as if these "certain militant Hindu groups in India" are some sought of fringe group with no power......The BJP was running your country and there is enough times we have heard what they want to do to pakistan.

*It is my impression that the dominant elites in India are willing to have Pakistan as a stable neighbour at peace within itself and with the outside world. It wants Pakistan as a &#8220;good neighbour&#8221;, meaning one that accepts its position as a relatively small power, does not insist on being India&#8217;s equal and rival, and does not oppose its drive to the role and status of a world power. It wants peace and amity and close cooperative relations with Pakistan, albeit, on these terms. One doubts that these terms will commend themselves to the powers that be in Pakistan in the foreseeable future. It may then be said that relations between these two neighbours are likely to remain under some degree of stress.*

Lol.....its only the indians that see themselves as some sort of world power.......you have to understand that you will never be on the same scale as the US,China and russia ..your more on the level of brazil.
Its you that should be a good neighbour to all around you......ever thought why is it that all you neighbour dont like you?


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## rubyjackass

dabong1 said:


> *Secure in the belief that India does not have the option of going to war, Pakistani strategists do not consider it necessary to appease India and redress its grievance. Apparently they are not taking cognisance of the possibility that India may take measures short of war that may cause Pakistan a great deal of suffering. *
> 
> Kashmir is the reason pakistan will not address any of indians grievances.
> 
> 
> *It can, for instance, interfere with the flow of water into Pakistans rivers, which originate in territories under Indias control, and thus ruin Pakistani agriculture and food production. Its secret agents can intervene in Pakistans unceasing internal turmoil to further disrupt its politics and society.*
> 
> I think you know as well as i do that stopping the water will be the same as declaring war.
> 
> *Many political observers in Pakistan believe that India has been a sworn enemy of this country from the day of its establishment as an independent state, wants to undo the partition or, failing that, it wants to destroy Pakistan.*
> 
> Yes
> 
> *There are doubtless certain militant Hindu groups in India that harbour such thoughts. But the same is probably not true of Indian officials, mainstream political parties and opinion makers. They see Pakistan as too troublesome a place to take over. They are reconciled to its separate existence.*
> 
> You make out as if these "certain militant Hindu groups in India" are some sought of fringe group with no power......The BJP was running your country and there is enough times we have heard what they want to do to pakistan.
> 
> *It is my impression that the dominant elites in India are willing to have Pakistan as a stable neighbour at peace within itself and with the outside world. It wants Pakistan as a good neighbour, meaning one that accepts its position as a relatively small power, does not insist on being Indias equal and rival, and does not oppose its drive to the role and status of a world power. It wants peace and amity and close cooperative relations with Pakistan, albeit, on these terms. One doubts that these terms will commend themselves to the powers that be in Pakistan in the foreseeable future. It may then be said that relations between these two neighbours are likely to remain under some degree of stress.*
> 
> Lol.....its only the indians that see themselves as some sort of world power.......you have to understand that you will never be on the same scale as the US,China and russia and brazil.......your more on the level of brazil.
> Its you that should be a good neighbour to all around you......ever thought why is it that all you neighbour dont like you?



See we have an example of 'political observer' mentioned in the editorial right here.

No offence bro. Take it with good humor


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## Solomon2

"This would suggest that the evidence which their interrogations had produced against the suspects was not enough to take them to court."

Didn't Pakistani officials already say that convictions will _only_ occur on the basis of evidence supplied by India? Has anyone heard that evidence collected by Pakistani investigators will be used by the prosecution?


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## wtf

dabong1 said:


> Its you that should be a good neighbour to all around you......ever thought why is it that all you neighbour dont like you?



The whole editorial is written by a Pakistani guy. It is not my personal viewpoint. And he does not think India is hated or hates Pakistan.


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## qsaark

Not a GREAT Editorial, just another editorial.


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## wtf

Solomon2 said:


> Has anyone heard that evidence collected by Pakistani investigators will be used by the prosecution?



I don't know how they'll take it to the courts without any evidence collected locally. In the common law, the judge remains neutral and does not investigate. It would be the job of prosecution to prove the case. Prosecution can collect evidence from Police or other sources.
They'll at least have to show evidence that the people they have arrested are who they claim to be. What more they'll do, I don't know.


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## dabong1

wtf said:


> The whole editorial is written by a Pakistani guy. It is not my personal viewpoint. And he does not think India is hated or hates Pakistan.



So what if he is a pakistani...doesnt mean i have to agree with everything he says,do you agree with every statement if its made from a indian?
Why cant you understand that if kashmir was solved there would be no problem between the twn nations......the hatred is there and will always be there as long no fair and just soultion is reached on kashmir.


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## wtf

dabong1 said:


> So what if he is a pakistani...doesnt mean i have to agree with everything he says,do you agree with every statement if its made from a indian?
> Why cant you understand that if kashmir was solved there would be no problem between the twn nations......the hatred is there and will always be there as long no fair and just soultion is reached on kashmir.



Sorry, when you said that "you should understand" , I thought it was directed at me. If it is directed at the author I'll pass. Can I request you to say "he should understand" for greater clarity ?

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## dabong1

wtf said:


> Sorry, when you said that "you should understand" , I thought it was directed at me. If it is directed at the author I'll pass. Can I request you to say "he should understand" for greater clarity ?



Sorry...... my fault

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## spsk

Its funny ... I don't think many of the Indian people are dreaming about becoming a super power/regional power in world . BJP was the first and only one to campaign like this and lost power


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## BanglaBhoot

Kurt Nimmo

Prison Planet.com
Sunday, December 7, 2008

It is becoming increasingly a hard sell to pin the blame for the Mumbai attacks on Pakistan and thus set the stage for an attack on Pakistan after Barack Obama enters the White House in a few weeks. It now appears Indian intelligence played a large part in the terrorist attacks. On Saturday, the Associated Press reported that a counterinsurgency police officer who may have been on an undercover mission was arrested for illegally buying mobile phone cards used by the gunmen.

The counterinsurgency operative, Mukhtar Ahmed, worked for the police in Indian Kashmir. The implications of Ahmeds involvement  that Indian agents may have been in touch with the militants and perhaps supplied the SIM cards used in the attacks  added to the growing list of questions over Indias ill-trained security forces, which are widely blamed for not thwarting the attacks, reports the Associated Press.

In other words, Indian intelligence had penetrated Lashkar-e-Taiba and were running a false flag operation through the terrorist group, putatively connected to Pakistans ISI.

Indian police in the Kashmir city of Srinagar told Calcutta police that Ahmed is our man and its now up to them how to facilitate his release, said one senior officer speaking on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the information. Other police officials in Kashmir supported his account, reports the Associated Press.


Indian intelligence staging false flag terror attacks and blaming them on Muslims is nothing new. On November 23, Andrew Buncombe, writing for the Independent, reported: India is in something of a state of shock after learning from official sources that its first Hindu terror cell may have carried out a series of deadly bombings that were initially blamed on militant Muslims. In addition to bombing attacks in the Muslim town of Malegaon in the western state of Maharashtra in September, the Hindu terror cells are allegedly responsible for last years bombing of a cross-border train en route to Pakistan, which killed 68 people, according to Buncombe.

It should be noted that the head of the Maharastrian Anti-Terrorist Squad making the allegations about Hindu false flag terrorism, Hemant Karkare, was assassinated as he led his team into the Hotel Taj Kahal during the Mumbai attacks. Killed in the line of duty, Hemant Karare was targeted as the man who was an immense problem for the BJP the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party because his forthright investigation revealed Hindutva terrorism and he was not about to stop. Clearly this invalidated the BJP campaign rhetoric against Muslim terrorism, but the BJP will still use the emotional fervor of Hindutva to win against the Congress party, writes Allen Heart for OpEdNews.

An exposé carried in a national daily published in the Indian state of Madhya Pradesh alleges that Indian intelligence supported extremist Hindutvadis in their murderous Malegaon campaign with the cooperation of Israels Mossad. The newspaper writes that relations between Mossad and CIA are world known, notes the Pak Alert Press blog. The national daily has exposed that the officials of the national intelligence agencies have categorically stated that American secret service agency, CIA together with Israels secret organization Mossad, has carried out several secret operation all over Asia, Pak Alert Press reports, translating from the original Urdu.

Indian intelligence, however, is no minor player and its foreign policy objectives currently parallel those of the CIA and Mossad in regard to covert destabilization in South Asia and elsewhere. RAW the Research and Analysis Wing, the Indian version of the CIA , ever since its creation, has always been a vital, though unobtrusive, actor in Indian policy-making apparatus, writes Isha Khan.

Since its creation in 1968, RAW has been given a virtual carte blanche to conduct destabilization operations in neighboring countries inimical to India to seriously undertook restructuring of its organization accordingly. RAW was given a list of seven countries (Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Sikkim, Bhutan, Pakistan and Maldives) whom India considered its principal regional protagonists. It very soon systematically and brilliantly crafted covert operations in all these countries to coerce, destabilize and subvert them in consonance with the foreign policy objectives of the Indian Government.

Specifically, RAW considers Sindh as Pakistans soft under-belly. It has, therefore, made it the prime target for sabotage and subversion. RAW has enrolled and extensive network of agents and anti-government elements, and is convinced that with a little push restless Sindh will revolt. Taking fullest advantage of the agitation in Sindh in 1983 and the ethnic riots, which have continued till today, RAW has deeply penetrated and cultivated dissidents and secessionists, thereby creating hard-liners unlikely to allow peace to return to Sindh. Sindh includes Urdu-speaking Muslim refugees who migrated to Pakistan from India upon independence.

It now appears obvious that Indias RAW with the help of the CIA and Israels Mossad created the current situation and have set-up Pakistans ISI to take the blame for the Mumbai attacks. Senator McCain, flanked by senators Joe Lieberman and Lindsay Graham, told Ejaz Haider, a senior editor with the Daily Times group, that it could be a matter of days before India carried out surgical air strikes if Pakistan did not act on the evidence provided to it on elements linked to the attacks, according to the Daily Star. If the terrorists succeed in confounding relations between these two great countries, they will achieve their aim. We cannot let that happen, McCain declared.

A conflict between the two nuclear armed nations may very well be the international crisis, a generated crisis Joe Biden mentioned in October that will test president Barack Obama.

In August, 2007, Obama said the United States must be willing to strike al Qaeda targets inside Pakistan, a comment that has led more than a few commentators to conclude that the U.S. will attack Pakistan in the coming months. It now appears the false flag Mumbai attacks, described as Indias 9/11, will serve as a pretext to get the ball rolling on surgical strikes against Pakistan.


Arrest Provides More Evidence India, Israel, and the U.S. Behind Mumbai Attacks


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## wtf

*Pakistan takes another Mumbai suspect into custody*

Islamabad (AP): Pakistan's top civilian security official says authorities have arrested a fifth suspect in last year's deadly siege of Mumbai.

Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik says Shahid Jamil Riaz was arrested in the southern Pakistani city of Karachi.

Riaz is alleged to have maintained financial accounts and helped plan the November attack, which killed 164 people in India's commercial capital.

Mr. Malik further said on Monday that Pakistan needs more information from India to aid its investigation.

He says five of nine suspects are in custody. He did not say when Riaz was picked up. 

The Hindu News Update Service
-------------------------------------------------------------

Great to see some progress!


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## IceCold

The great irony is that the GOP continues to capture the so called mumbai terrorists and yet there is no sign of who attacked the Srilankan team of the police training center. Wow just great, with this kind of attitude surely we will progress and then people say the situation is hardly where one would need to say Good bye Pakistan.


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## Rabbit.Rabbit

So called mumbai terrorists? 

Are you having doubts whether they were terrorists, or whether the attack took place?


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## PeacefulIndian

IceCold said:


> The great irony is that the GOP continues to capture the so called mumbai terrorists and yet there is no sign of who attacked the Srilankan team of the police training center. Wow just great, with this kind of attitude surely we will progress and then people say the situation is hardly where one would need to say Good bye Pakistan.



Pakistan has her back to the wall here. Nearly all the countires in the world have the evidence dossier provided by India, accepted by most of them. In the wake of rising terror activities stemming from Pakistan, she needs to be seen doing something. 

What will happen to the arrested is an entirely different issue. My guess is nothing.


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## wtf

PeacefulIndian said:


> Pakistan has her back to the wall here. Nearly all the countires in the world have the evidence dossier provided by India, accepted by most of them. In the wake of rising terror activities stemming from Pakistan, she needs to be seen doing something.
> 
> What will happen to the arrested is an entirely different issue. My guess is nothing.



Be a little more optimistic man. If they were not trying to prosecute them, why even arrest them ? And why accept the arrests in public ? 


You could start a conspiracy theory saying GoP have not arrested the real suspects or something, but in this case it looks like those arrested are certainly going down.


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## PeacefulIndian

wtf said:


> Be a little more optimistic man. If they were not trying to prosecute them, why even arrest them ? And why accept the arrests in public ?
> 
> 
> You could start a conspiracy theory saying GoP have not arrested the real suspects or something, but in this case it looks like those arrested are certainly going down.



They have alays been arresting terrorists. They did the same after Parliament attack, without any prosecutuion. Do you know a single incident where they really prosecuted a terrorist, for terror activities in India, based on India's evidence? If yes, please let me know when. 

In my view, the whole Pakistani prosecution of Mumbai terror suspects is a big dirty joke. This is just face saving exercise. I have chosen not to be optimistic any more. That has yielded us nothing for so many decades.


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## BanglaBhoot

MUMBAI, India -- More than 100 witnesses, including U.S. FBI agents, will testify at the trial of the man police say is the only surviving gunman in the bloody Mumbai siege, Indian prosecutors said Saturday.

Five foreign experts will present evidence against Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, special public prosecutor Ujjwal Nikam told the court Saturday on the second day of the trial.

Mr. Kasab is accused of being one of 10 gunmen who killed 166 people, including several Americans, in a three-day rampage through the city that targeted a train station, two luxury hotels and a Jewish center.

Mr. Nikam said the FBI had analyzed four global positioning devices found on the dead gunmen after the attacks and these would be instrumental in proving the men had come from Pakistan.

Opening the trial Friday, Mr. Nikam said Mr. Kasab had a direct hand in the deaths of 72 people and was part of "a criminal conspiracy hatched in Pakistan" which could not have been undertaken without training from "intelligence professionals' in Pakistan.

India has blamed the Muslim militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba.

Pakistani officials have acknowledged the November attacks were partly plotted on their soil and announced criminal proceedings against eight suspects. They also have acknowledged that Mr. Kasab is Pakistani but have repeatedly denied their intelligence agencies were involved in the attack.

Mr. Kasab and his co-defendants -- two Indians accused of helping plot the attack -- have been charged with 12 criminal counts, including murder and waging war against India. If convicted, all could face death by hanging.

FBI Agents to Testify at Mumbai Attacks Trial - WSJ.com


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## rokhanyousafzai

theRock said:


> _Yaaawn_... always talking of slaps and kicks ...
> 
> Well you didnt shoot Indian plane as you were afraid of an strong Indian retaliation and escalation from IAF. If you couldnt shoot the Indian plane in pak space then it clearly shows your weakness as either you were not able to OR your Masters US and Dave Miliband ordered you to not do anything.
> 
> So in any case the 'slap' came back to paks own face.
> 
> Btw paks airspace gets violated often and not a new thing ... the fact is pak couldnt do anything at all..... whether its US drones or Indian planes.



stop flaming and trolling we acted in self defence and normally unless agressive action takes place they dont normally just shoot it down. If pakistan was responsible for turning mumbai on its head then it shows the weakness of india for not taking any action itself or running away from our airspac. You were supposed to take action u moron because an indian city was attacked  

As for ur last post its utter rubbish pakistans airspace gets violated all the time by indian coffins care to provide a link please for ur claim the truth is ur jets turned right around and got the hell out of their when we intercepted

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## Patriot

He is probably gonna banned soon.OTOH Check this news


> Pak violated Indian airspace thrice: IAF
> 29 Jul 2008, 1639 hrs IST,Times Now
> 
> 
> NEW DELHI: A TV report says that the Indian Air Force has confirmed that the Pakistani Air Force warplanes had violated Indian airspace on at least three occasions in May and June. The Indian Air Force has now got itself into operational readiness after a pattern of air space violation was seen. ( Watch )
> 
> According to Times Now , three intrusions were reported in Pathankot sector. After these intrusions, the Director General of Military Operations (DGMO) of the Indian Army - General Sekhon - spoke with his Pakistan counterpart - Major General Ahmed Pasha.
> 
> However, the warplanes did not penetrated deep into the Indian airspace. The Air force is ensuring operational readiness in four key places in the Western Air Command.
> 
> Fali Major, Air Chief, confirming to the reports of airspace violation said, "As usual our operational readiness is in place. They man three or four places in western air command which stretches from Kashmir to Rajasthan. This has been the norm throughout. But, we have not taken extra precautions because we know how these intrusions took place, and why they happened.&#8221;


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## Neo

theRock said:


> _Yaaawn_... always talking of slaps and kicks ...
> 
> Well you didnt shoot Indian plane as you were afraid of an strong Indian retaliation and escalation from IAF. If you couldnt shoot the Indian plane in pak space then it clearly shows your weakness as either you were not able to OR your Masters US and Dave Miliband ordered you to not do anything.
> 
> So in any case the 'slap' came back to paks own face.
> 
> Btw paks airspace gets violated often and not a new thing ... the fact is pak couldnt do anything at all..... whether its US drones or Indian planes.



As a matter of fact your planes hit back for home as soon as they were detected. Stay a while longer if you have balls...

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## Neo

theRock said:


> Don't divert the subject. If you had 'balls' you would have hit Indian planes as pak said Indian plane entered about 7 kms inside pak 'territory'.
> 
> So dont cry and talk about 'balls' as you were scared of a massive IAF retaliation.



*Stay on topic please!
Thanks.*


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## Enigma SIG

theRock said:


> Do I need to provide all the links in which US drones violated pak airspace?



Violated Pakistani airspace? The drones take off from our own airbases; the govt just fires blanks when it condemns the drone attacks...

Well the mumbai attack surely was a ploy to get PA to engage the taliban fully and finally; the operation should've been done sooner though; they shouldnt have negotiated with these thugs at all; but I guess it was necessary to garner public support for the operation.


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## rokhanyousafzai

theRock said:


> Do I need to provide all the links in which US drones violated pak airspace?
> yaaaawn ... and btw we put enough pressure on US to force pak take actions against those 'non-state' actors involved in Mumbai attack.We didnt have to waste our resources. The mumbai attack was an attempt to create another war between pak and india.The result is US forced pak army to act against Talibunnies and well wishers. The non-state actors are now facing the music in SWAT,FATA etc.


If u had of done some research then you would know that those drones are on pakistani bases so is pakistan violating its own airspace . We didnt do anyting with those non state actors and some that were arrested have been freed also it was an embarrasment for ur security and intelligence services.

Once again dont just talk out of ur *** US couldnt force us to do anyting against the taliban for 8 years what makes u think we did it on their behalf the peace deal in swat was a trap and it has worked perfectly and btw the way the taliban in swat are getting funds and sophisticated communications devices the interior ministry spokeman has said it yesterday that there is outside help now who do u think that is. And please put some thought into ur posts because the fact is India was left embarrased and it was a humiliation for its special forces and security and huge intelligence failure and what happened to pak in return was not half as proportionate


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

theRock said:


> The day Kasab was proved a pakis national



*The word is Pakistani, not P-aki, which is a slur, and will result in a ban if you keep using it.*


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

theRock said:


> The day Kasab was proved a pakis national (and all the story,places where he took trainings etc etc) the likes of Miliband,Broadband etc etc were turned into a piece of jokers and liars.
> 
> Anyway this Miliband has been asked to be banned(sacked) by Brown's close allies for being immature.He is indeed inexperienced,immature and over-confident as per his OWN people not fit to serve as a foreign secretary.He seems to have inadequate knowledge of this region and war on terror.But he got some popularity and recognition by his acts for sure and certainly looking to get attention by passing these judgements.
> 
> David Miliband is wrong on the war on terror - Telegraph
> "Sack Miliband" - Labour MP's Demand After Outburst | NowPublic News Coverage
> 
> More links in net but these gives an good idea. Paks own immaturity matches this guys immaturity.



None of that invalidates his position - the fact remains that the Pakistani establishment, including the Army and ISI were not involved in Mumbai, and no evidence was found to indicate such involvement - India's own dossier said as much.

The evidence found related to Kasab being trained by a militant group in Pakistan, and not to any role Pakistani institutions played.


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## rokhanyousafzai

theRock said:


> *The day Kasab was proved a pakis national *(and all the story,places where he took trainings etc etc) the likes of Miliband,Broadband etc etc were turned into a piece of jokers and liars.
> 
> Anyway this Miliband has been asked to be banned(sacked) by Brown's close allies for being immature.He is indeed inexperienced,immature and over-confident as per his OWN people not fit to serve as a foreign secretary.He seems to have inadequate knowledge of this region and war on terror.But he got some popularity and recognition by his acts for sure and certainly looking to get attention by passing these judgements.
> 
> David Miliband is wrong on the war on terror - Telegraph
> "Sack Miliband" - Labour MP's Demand After Outburst | NowPublic News Coverage
> 
> More links in net but these gives an good idea. Paks own immaturity matches this guys immaturity.


watch ur language who the hell do u think u are, it is so easy for us to get racist and burn u to the ground but that doesnt make us better and please try to prove ur stupid claims like india violates pakistans airspace all the time


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## rokhanyousafzai

theRock said:


> Wow what a research you have done  ... thats why your beloved Prez Zardari begging to NATO/US to stop the attacks in your own territory?
> Let me spoon feed you and others here with some news.
> 
> _*"It is merit mentioning here that the US is carrying out drone attacks inside Pakistan. Islamabad stance is that drone attacks are a violation of its sovereignty and undermine efforts to deal with militancy because they inflame public anger. The US started drone attacks in Pakistan last year. There has been no let up in the attacks since US President Barrack Obamas administration took office in January despite repeated protest by the Pak govt."*_
> 
> _*"Miranshah ( Pakistan ), July 23 (ANI): In yet another similar incident over the past few days, two NATO aircraft intruded into Pakistani air space late on Monday night in North Waziristan."*_
> 
> _*"ISTANBUL: Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has emphasized that NATO forces in Afghanistan must stop violation of Pakistans airspace as it is counter&#8209;productive and negatively impacts Pakistans efforts in the war against terrorism." *_
> 
> 7 US gunship choppers violate Pak airspace | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online
> 
> NATO drone again violates Pak airspace
> 
> SOUTH ASIAN NEWS AGANCY (SANA) | US drones keep violates Pak air space
> 
> Two NATO aircraft violate Pak airspace on Monday night
> 
> Zardari seeks help from foreign envoys to stop US drone attacks
> 
> More..... links like this all over net.
> 
> 
> 
> Calm down... dont get abusive... and you fell in the 'trap' ... now US is trying to make you free from the 'trap'. US is indeed forcing muslims to kill muslims in pak. Thats a FACT.



oh dont worry im happy to see you make a fool of ourself why would that anger me and once again US isnt making us do anything we are not dropping bombs on civilians we are dropping bombs on terrorists with the full backing of the population and i can see how hard that is to digest for you. Please do some research again before posting these drone attacks are based in pakistan and are with pakistans consent the only reason politicians are talking against it is to keep the public and those stupid Islamic parties from protesting and sayin our leaders are killing innocents when infact as the conversation with Muslim Khan indicates that they have suffered alot in the drone attacks and have lost alot of men. Another thing do some more research and perhaps you will find out that PAF has sed it can shoot down the drones and only needs the govt go ahead


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## aziz raza

I do agree with you


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## aziz raza

Thank You for the information


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## BaburCM

HOPAL: In a shocking incident, a 25-year-old woman from Mumbai was allegedly gangraped by three men in a speeding SUV while her husband was held
at gunpoint on Wednesday night. The incident took place on the outskirts of Bhopal. The victim and her husband, residents of central Mumbai, had come to the city on Monday to get their two children admitted to the Asaram Bapu Ashram School here.

The incident comes six days after a similar case in Surat where a teenaged girl was gangraped by three youths in a car.

SP (Bhopal) Jaideep Prasad said, The couple left the Asaram Bapu ashram at around 8.30 pm. Since the ashram is on the outskirts of the city, they could not find transport to take them back to their hotel in Bhopal. They hitched a ride in a black Innova which had four men. But the moment they boarded the vehicle, the SUV made a U-turn and sped. According to him, the men in the vehicle were drunk and very rich people who seemed to be in a frolicking mood, not regular anti-social elements and put a gun to the husbands head and threatened him.

While one of them held the husband at gunpoint, the others, excluding the driver, took turns to rape the hapless woman. After committing the heinous crime, the men sped up and down the Bhopal-Rajgarh highway. At about 2.45 am, they stopped the vehicle at Mubarakpur Square, 15 km from Bhopal, and pushed the couple down. They also dumped the car seat cover, a couple of silver bracelets and other sundry items, which have been seized.

Soon after the couple reported the incident to the police, raids were conducted in some parts of the city until Thursday morning, but no arrests were made.

The police, who have announced a Rs 5,000 reward for anyone providing information on the accused, are now on the lookout for the black Innova. We have a list of all black Innovas registered in Bhopal. We are trying to get a list of all such vehicles registered in the state, Prasad said. The couple left the city for Mumbai after the victims medical tests. 

Source: Mumbai woman gangraped in SUV near Bhopal - Mumbai - Cities - The Times of India


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## A1Kaid

This is absolutely horrible, this situation reflects the danger and unstable conditions in major parts of India. This is not an isolated incident but a long criminal trend perpetrated by Indian males, many of whom maybe privileged. 

Time and time again large number of rapes occur in India, in it's most urban areas like Mumbai, Calcutta, and others. It is disgusting to see this trend continue. Many women there are unsafe because India is home to one of the largest population of sexual predators and simply criminal individuals and groups.


The police is also corrupt and do little to solve these problems. The law enforcement issue in India or lack there of facilitates and allows rapes on a large scale to continue, rapes are hardly investigated adequately.

Sure rapes occur everywhere around the world, but in India the numbers are extremely high and cannot be compared to other countries. India's rape statistics are extremely and uniquely high.


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## A1Kaid

Just take a look at this news. Seriously it is sad but a must read for those interested in this topic.

*Rape: India's fastest growing crime
*
Shreya Dhoundial / CNN-IBN

TimePublished on Sun, May 04, 2008 at 02:18 in India section 


New Delhi: *It's the fastest growing crime in India* and New Delhi has seen more than 10 rapes last month alone.

As an embarrassed government gets ready to enact tougher rape laws, the victims continue to face an insensitive police and criminal justice system.

Nearly three years ago as India was celebrating the festival of lights, the world dimmed for an 18-year-old as she was returning from work late in the night.

Iris was first stalked by four drunken men and then raped by one of them in the heart of New Delhi.

"The whole night he raped me. My hands were tied and my voice deserted me," Iris recounts the incident.

And the trauma didn't stop there.

The police first refused to lodge an FIR and when they finally did, no medical tests were ordered.

Instead in a misguided attempt at justice they got her married to her rapist.

Two years on, with a child she conceived the night she was raped, Iris is out on the road, deserted by her husband and looking for justice again.

"Some times I feel I should commit suicide," she says.

Iris is part of statistics that have got sociologists worried.

The reported cases of *rape have grown by 700 per cent since 1953*. Last year *20,000 rapes were reported *in the country. And *India's rape capital New Delhi *has seen 10 cases last month alone.

*One case was that of a minor girl being raped by a policeman*.

Sociologists say reasons for this sudden increase is a complex mix of migration, shrinking spaces in cities and the high visibility of women outside their homes.

However, law enforcement agencies argue that actual rape cases haven't increased substantially, what has is their reportage.

And in any case since 80 per cent of the accused are known to the victims, it's a crime virtually not preventable.

Joint Commissioner of Delhi Police Kawaljeet Deol would know.

She helped set up the crime against women cell in the capital 24 years ago.

She says though the police is often blamed for being insensitive to rape victims, their real culprit is the criminal justice system.

The trial of rape cases is very long and intimidation for the victim. Many victims turn hostile because of this," Deol says.

No wonder then that the *conviction rate for rape is as low as 27 per cent*. In a country where a *rape is reported every 30 minutes*, it's a statistic that should put all of us to shame.


Source: Rape: India's fastest growing crime


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## dabong1

These crimes dont just happen in india but in every country!.......it sad and i hope they catch the rapist and shoot them.


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## SSGPA1

I feel sorry for the lady and her husband. This is really sad, I hope those bast**ds are caught and given capital punishment.

Good thing is that this couple had the courage to report the case and I pray to Allah that their courage help others to come forward as well.


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## pchavan

For your kind information, pakistan is one of the poorest country in the world. They depend in US funds to raise there defence power and this is the truth. Our hollywood movies are first of all view by u pakitanis like beggars. The economy of Pakistan is no where.

The information you have about the snaps is just a tricks to divert the minds of the media, The thread in the terrorits hads is only wore my hindu. I deny this fact. I have seen Pakistani cricket players wearing the band called as peace band. 
Even we found the satellite phone which were signalled from Pakistan base which was decoded by US FBI. Can you prove this false that FBI were also part of Modi's game. Pakitanis are kids who **** their *** without there brains.


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## Gabbar

^^ You first post with insults?, you are not going to las long. 

Sayonara!!!!!!


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## Tefal

hasang20 said:


> lol @ that guy i dont think "Mujahideens" are going to buy liquor




If they can blow mosque they can drink liquor too man


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## haawk

SELF DELETE


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## haawk

[*QUOTE=imran khan;232871]50 hours terarrst inside indian waters and indian navy are sleep tight because they close there radar and fell happy .what a drama they make [/QUOTE]
*
HOW DO YOU TRACK A FISHING TRAWLER WITH A RADAR? I DONT GET IT ?ARE YOU REALLY THAT DUMB OR YOU JUST WANT TO POST JUST FOR THE SAKE OF INDIA BASHING


*
waqastariq-" you say... I say they were Indian terrorist plain and simple truth... and maybe one day truth will reveal it self... You can kep on blaming others..". *


THE ABOVE POST SHOWS YOUR MATURITY AND YOUR MIND SET .....
YOU ARE ONE OF THE TYPE WHO SAYS " I AM NOT GOING TO BELIEVE IT NOMATTER WHAT"- COZ YOU CHOOSE TO BE BLIND. THIS IS A FORUM WHERE YOU COME WITH A OPEN MIND AND DEBATE ..... YOU ARE NOT GOING ANY THING(KNOWLEDGE COZ OF YOUR MINDSET ) SO WHY DEBATE IN THE FIRST PLACE WHEN YOUR MIND IS CLOSED ... 




*judge it for ur self do they look foriegn.
they look indians 1000&#37;.*


SO DO PAKISTANI'S LOOK LIKE CHINEESE OR LIKE WESTENERS ?
DUDE PEOPLE FROM BOTH COUNTRIES LOOK ALIKE.......AND AS FOR THE LIQUOR PART - MR . JINNAH DRANK . SO YOU CANT ARGUE ABOUT MUSLIMS DRINKING EITHER


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## dabong1

Dispatches - Terror in Mumbai - Channel 4

You gotta watch this documentary but be aware its shocking.


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## xebex

dabong1 said:


> Dispatches - Terror in Mumbai - Channel 4
> 
> You gotta watch this documentary but be aware its shocking.




Its only accessable from UK. dude u got some other link??


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## xebex

Guys i found one on youtube.

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## Machoman

I watched all the 5 parts. This is really really sad. I am so sorry for the victim family. Some people do not know the meaning of their religion and do this kind a stuff shameful.


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## Coolyo

It`s disgusting what these Indian-RAW Hindutva fascists did to their own people, and the crimes that are being done by them all over the world (especially in the Tribal Areas and Balochistan)!

The fact is that the Mumbai attacks were an inside job:


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## Machoman

I don't know who is behind this but buy watching that documentary, I think Kasab and his groupf was MF. I do not know if he is Pakistani or indian but this is too much. This is shameful act and one should not kill anyone specially innocent for any reason.


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## AstanoshKhan

^^^ Agreed

But this documentary itself is total BS and propaganda. This same channel were jumping off its seat when 12 Pakistani students were blamed as terrorists and when no evidence was found, they even didn't bother to talk about it. So why should one consider this channel and it's documentaries unbiased or as an authentic truth?

I wonder when they are going to release an episode about the genocide of Palestinians in Gaza or US's open terrorism?


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## zombie

> It`s disgusting what these Indian-RAW Hindutva fascists did to their own people,



By the same reckoning - all the taliban killing of pakistanis is being done by the ISI Islamists?


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## Coolyo

zombie said:


> By the same reckoning - all the taliban killing of pakistanis is being done by the ISI Islamists?



Nope, ISI dealt with the Taliban, they never supported it!

We all know that terrorist groups like the TTP and BLA are funded by India's RAW and Israel's Mossad! But they will soon fail in their evil plots, Insha Allah!


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## Nemesis

Funny, according to the logic of some people here, RAW must have infiltrated the top brass of the Pakistani government, i mean how else can you explain this - 

Pakistan owns Ajmal Kasab | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online


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## dabong1

Do we or do we not agree that the people involved in the mumbai attacks should have there heads chopped off?


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## manojb

TruthTube. tv 1/5 DISPATCHES ISLAMIC TERROR IN MUMBAI PART 1 OF 5 the truth!!!Authentic documentary.!!Must watch!! Chilling!! Coward Terrorist!! impotent handlers!!! Brave victims!!


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## jeypore

ISLAMABAD, July 4 (Xinhua) -- Pakistani federal government filed a petition on Saturday in the Supreme Court of Pakistan to challenge the release of the outlawed group Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD) chief Hafiz Saeed, according to the Express TV channel. 

Local media quoted Attorney Latif Khosa as saying that there were "sufficient grounds" to challenge the Lahore High Court (LHC)verdict that set Hafiz Saeed free. 

LHC released Saeed on June 2 who was detained last December after the United Nations declared JuD, a frontal organization of the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), as a terrorist group. 

Saeed was put under house arrest in Lahore last December in the wake of the Mumbai attacks in India, which left around 170 people dead. The LHC insisted that there was no sufficient ground to detain or link Saeed to the Mumbai terror attacks. 

India claimed that Lashkar-e-Taiba was behind the Mumbai attack and the Pakistani government started to crack down on JuD last December.

Pakistan gov't challenges release of outlawed group chief_English_Xinhua

*Very refreashing to see this, it does show current Pakistanie establishment in a good light.*


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## riju78

i am totally surprised that there r still ppl in pakistan who believes zaid hamid....and to say RAW was behind this is a joke...innocent ppl lost there life...and thats the sad part


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## riju78

the same channel had shown a programme on israel's civilian killings....... i think u guys should use ur common sense before believing ppl like zaid hamid...i mean he did say kasab's name was AMAR SINGH..and that too he got that information from his sources in RAW!!!! come on

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## wtf

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Pakistan may try Mumbai attackers soon

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan said Saturday it would probably put on trial next week the five accused of involvement in last years deadly terror attacks on the Indian city of Mumbai.



Relations between the two nuclear-armed rivals worsened after the siege in Indias financial capital that New Delhi blamed on the Lashkar-i-Taiba rebel group based in Pakistan.



The trial of the five accused, who have been arrested, is probably going to start next week, interior minister Rehman Malik told reporters in Islamabad after meeting Indian Deputy High Commissioner (Ambassador) Manpreet Vohra.



We are pretty sure that based on the evidence which our investigators have collected, the culprits will be punished, he said.



The announcement came hours after Indian premier Manmohan Singh voiced hope that Pakistan would promise action against those behind the attacks when he meets counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani.



Singh said he also hoped Islamabad would implement a five-year-old pledge not to allow use of their (Pakistani) land to terrorist elements working against India.



The discussions, on the margins of the global NAM summit in the Egyptian Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, will be the second high-level contact between the two sides since 166 people died in the Mumbai raids in November.



Malik said that the trial against the five accused including the alleged mastermind Zakiduddin Lakhvi would be transparent.



Investigation (on our side) is almost complete and we have collected all material evidence, he said.



The minister rejected Indias criticism that Pakistan was not serious in carrying out investigations.



We were not only serious but very serious in our investigations, he said.



The meeting between Singh and Gilani in Sharm el-Sheikh is to be preceded by talks between the foreign secretaries of the two South Asian countries.



The Mumbai siege also left a fragile peace process, launched in 2004, in tatters.



But Singhs re-election in May and a meeting between the Indian premier and Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari in the Russian city of Yekaterinburg last month have renewed hopes of a thawing in relations.



New Delhi is insistent that it will resume talks to normalise ties only after Islamabad brings to justice the alleged perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks.  AFP


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## wtf

Dawn is quoting AFP for the story. Seems like most of the actual quotes from the minister are missing.

Meanwhile Rediff has a more detailed story, but the title of the story is decidedly more negative. The story on the other hand is much more informative - I have highlighted the names in the story in bold. Hafiz Saeed might just be able to slip through, while Lakhvi clearly is implicated.


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## wtf

India delayed 26/11 probe, says Pakistan: Rediff.com news

Pakistan on Saturday said the trial of the five accused in the Mumbai terror attack case will get underway next week.

"The first step was the investigation, which we have completed successfully. The second step is the trial, which is going to start in the next few days," Malik told a news conference after he shared the findings of the probe with India's acting High Commissioner Manpreet Vohra.

Malik said 13 more people had been declared "proclaimed offenders" by Pakistani authorities. Though Malik did not name the suspects, other sources told PTI they are* Mohammad Amjad Khan, a 'facilitator' from Karachi, Iftikhar Ali, who deposited 250 dollars in Islamabad to obtain a VoIP connection for communication by the terrorists, Shahid Ghafoor, the captain of the boats Al-Hussaini and Al-Fauz and boat crew members Abdul Rehman, Muhammad Usman, Ateeq-ur-Rehman, Riaz Ahmad, Muhammad Mushtaq, Muhammad Naeem, Abdul Shakoor, Muhammad Sabir Salfi, Muhammad Usman and Shakil Ahmad.*

Federal Investigation Agency chief Tariq Khosa, who was present at the news conference, said an interim chargesheet had b*een filed against the five suspects, Laskher-e-Tayiba operatives Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, Zarar Shah, Abu al Qama, Hamad Amin Sadiq and Shahid Jamil Riaz on April 28 and their trial had commenced.*

After getting further information from India, investigators had prepared a second and updated chargesheet, Khosa said. Malik said the second chargesheet had been given to the prosecutor general.

"We hope that it will be filed in the court of law next week...We are pretty sure, based on the evidence which we have collected, that these culprits shall be punished," he added.

Later in the evening, acting High Commissioner Vohra was called to the Foreign Office and provided a dossier on Pakistan's probe into the Mumbai attacks.

Pakistan also asked India to provide "further evidence required for legal and judicial process," said a statement from the Foreign Office. Diplomatic sources told PTI that Pakistan's dossier was in two parts, one providing an update on the investigation and another seeking some additional information on the Mumbai attack.

The dossier acknowledges that three of the attackers, including Ajmal Amir Kasab, were Pakistani nationals, the sources said. *The new information sought by Islamabad was "not crucial" for the trial of the five suspects, the sources said.*

This information relates to mobile SIM cards used by the attackers and details of VoIP calls and GPS systems, they added. The release from house arrest of LeT founder and Jamaat-ud-Dawah chief Hafiz Mohammad Saeed also figured in Vohra's meeting with Malik, the sources said.

The Pakistani side said an appeal had been filed in the Supreme Court to challenge his release on the orders of the Lahore High Court.

The trial of the five suspects is being conducted by an anti-terror court in Rawalpindi. The trial has been held up due to the non-availability of a judge and Malik indicated proceedings would get underway during the next hearing set for July 18.

The trial would be transparent and based on the evidence gathered by Pakistani investigators, he said during the news conference.
*
Malik said Pakistani investigators had been able to link Lakhvi, a former close aide of LeT founder Saeed, to the Mumbai attacks.

"We have linked him with this matter, and we have not just (depended) on the statement of Kasab, we have connected (Lakhvi) with material evidence," he said.
*
The second chargesheet accuses Lakhvi of masterminding the attacks while Zarar Shah alias Abdul Wajid has been charged for being a facilitator and using his computer expertise to aid the attackers.

*Hamad Amin Sadiq has been charged with facilitating the transfer of funds and providing hideouts for the attackers. Abu al Qama alias Mazhar Iqbal is named as a "handler and facilitator" in the chargesheet while Shahid Jamil Riaz has been charged with facilitating the transfer of funds.*

Riaz, who was arrested on March 19, also served as a crew member of the boat Al Fauz that was used by the attackers, Malik said.

The FIR registered on February 15 by Pakistani authorities in connection with the Mumbai attacks had named nine persons, including Kasab.* Five of the nine had been arrested while three others, Abu Hamza, Khafa and Muhammad Amjad Khan are still at large, Malik said.
*
Malik rejected India's contention that Pakistan was not serious about the probe into the Mumbai incident and asked New Delhi - to end what he called a 'blame game'. He alleged there had been a delay on India's part in providing information sought by Pakistan, including Kasab's statement and DNA samples.

He said Pakistan sought Kasab's statement on February 12 and it was received from India on June 9. Malik also sought to link the probe into the Mumbai attacks with India's investigation into the 2007 bombing of the Samjhauta Express train that killed 68 people, most of them Pakistanis.

He questioned why India had not provided Pakistan information about Fahim Ansari and Sabahuddin Ahmed, who have been for the Mumbai attacks. "We have no doubt in our mind that assistance in India was provided to these non-state actors and culprits (who carried out the Mumbai attacks) and we think that...we may find some involvement (of Indian elements)," he said.

Malik, however, said Pakistani investigator felt there was no need to question Kasab as his statement made to authorities in India would be inadmissible in a Pakistani court.

Minister of State for External Affairs Preneet Kaur , while maintaining that the government would reply after examining Pakistan's dossier, termed as untrue Malik's allegation that India did not cooperate. She said India has given to Pakistan whatever material it had related to the Mumbai attacks.

Kaur said Pakistan had taken a long time to give a reaction and even then the response was not satisfactory. Noting that Pakistan has accepted that the attacks were planned in their territory, she hoped Islamabad would not create any more hurdles and would proceed fast on the issue.


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## wtf

Oh, and then there is the statement from Manmohan Singh that he did not intend to hurt Zardari. He claims he forgot that press people were standing around.

I did not intend to hurt Zardari, says PM: Rediff.com news

In a surprise clarification, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said that when he met Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari in Russia on the sidelines of the Shanghai Co-operation Organisation meeting on 16 June, he " simply forgot" that mediapersons were present around them.

The meeting had created a row in Pakistan because in the presence of media Dr Singh was seen telling Zardari that, "I am very happy to meet you but, I must tell you quite frankly that I have come with the limited mandate of discussing how Pakistan can deliver on its assurances that its territory would not be used for terrorist attacks on India." 

(contd..)


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## wtf

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

EDITORIAL: Moving to Indo-Pak d&#233;tente

Indian Prime Minister Mr Manmohan Singh says he has not given up on getting back to normal relations with Pakistan &#8220;despite difficulties&#8221;. He indicated the extent of the success he had achieved together with Pakistan to normalise relations spoiled by the November 2008 terrorist attacks in Mumbai by announcing that &#8220;representatives of both countries, including the ISI chief, had been involved in recent discussions&#8221;. Mr Singh had met President Asif Zardari against the background of discussions between the high commissioners of both countries, the ISI chief and the Foreign Office.

India wants Pakistan to clamp down on the terrorist groups and dismantle their infrastructure. Pakistan says India must provide proof for the legal process to take place in Pakistan sufficiently to put away the accused entities. It has had to release the chief of Jama&#8217;at-ud Dawa in Pakistan because of paucity of proof, but not without the Pakistani press complaining about inept prosecution by the police. Islamabad still wants more effective evidence from India to be able to convict the people it has captured but has signalled its seriousness in getting rid of the troublemakers.

Interior Minister Mr Rehman Malik has met the Indian high commissioner in Islamabad and told him that he had enough evidence to convict the persons in prison for carrying out the attack. The information he made public on Sunday is new for Pakistanis as well and will shock many who thought the deed just couldn&#8217;t have been done from Pakistan. The mastermind Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi is awaiting trial together with a number of operatives, and Pakistan has completed the investigation of the case 76 days after India provided the needed evidence.

Lashkar-e Tayba was the alleged culprit, according to Mr Rehman. Lakhvi planned the act, Hammad Amin got the funds and arranged hideouts, Mazhar Iqbal was the handler, Abdul Wajid was the expert of the computer networks, and Shahid Jamil was the crew member of &#8220;Al-Hussaini&#8221; and &#8220;Al-Fouz&#8221;, the two boats used in the attacks. The government is looking for Muhammad Amjad Khan and Iftikhar Ali who deposited $250 in Islamabad to obtain a VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) connection for terrorists&#8217; communication; Shahid Ghafur, captain of the boats, and crew members Abdul Rehman, Muhammad Usman, Atiqur Rehman, Riaz Ahmad, Muhammad Mushtaq, Muhammad Naeem, Abdul Shakoor, Muhammad Sabir Salafi, Muhammad Usman and Shakil Ahmad.

This information is going to work two ways. It is going to assure India that Pakistan is sincere in pursuing the terrorists and that its demand for more evidence is not a delaying tactic but a requirement of the court of law in Pakistan. More importantly, it is going to change the mind of the Pakistani public who was shielded from information it could trust after having rejected the Indian version of events. The total effect will be the dampening of the intense bilateral rhetoric in the media that prevents the two governments from moving forward to start talking again.

The &#8220;thaw&#8221; has come three days ahead of the forthcoming 15th Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) summit on July 15 and 16, at Sharm al-Sheikh, where Prime Ministers Singh and Yousaf Raza Gilani will hopefully set the tone for the resumption of the &#8220;stuck&#8221; bilateral dialogue. Pakistan has gone through the trauma of dealing with the Taliban and has finally got rid of its ambivalence about terrorism. It now thinks that it has to come to some sort of understanding with India over terrorism that spills in from Afghanistan and queers the pitch for the Pakistan Army in the tribal areas.

The good thing about the interrupted Indo-Pak dialogue in the wake of the Mumbai attacks was that it did not make progress on other issues conditional to a resolution of the Kashmir issue. While discussions on Kashmir can go on, hopefully leading both sides to stand down a little from their maximalist positions, they can move on to more trade and investment deals, the only way to defeat the terrorists who want Pakistan and India fighting rather working as partners in South Asia. The latest development in the investigation of the Mumbai attack case has suddenly opened the door that looked firmly shut a few days ago. This is good news. *


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

*JuD chiefs detention*​
Tuesday, July 14, 2009
SC seeks solid evidence

By Sohail Khan

ISLAMABAD: The Supreme Court on Monday adjourned till today (Tuesday) hearing in the appeals, filed by the federal and Punjab governments, challenging the release of Jamaatud Dawa (JuD) chief Hafiz Mohammad Saeed by the Lahore High Court. A three-member bench of the Supreme Court, comprising Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, Justice Sair Ali and Justice Jawwad S Khawaja, heard the appeals.

It was contended in the appeals that JuD chief Hafiz Saeed and his close aide Col (retd) Nazir Ahmed were originally detained in the light of a UN Security Council resolution that declared the JuD a terrorist organisation.

On Monday, Punjab Advocate General Raza Farooq submitted before the court that Hafiz Muhammad Saeed was detained in the light of the UN resolution that declared the JuD a terrorist organisation as well as on the reports submitted to the review board by the intelligence agencies.

He told the court that the review board accepted the reports submitted by the intelligence agencies upon which they were detained for 60 days. The Punjab AG, however, said the Lahore High Court did not accept the intelligence agencies report. At this, the chief justice said the court has to look into the law.

Your case is not based on your own information but relies on the UN resolution, the chief justice remarked. The basis on which you are curtailing the liberty of an individual should not be based on a UN resolution, the chief justice told the AG.

Raza Farooq contended that Hafiz Muhammad Saeed was detained under the Maintenance of Public Ordinance 1960. At this, Justice Jawwad S Khawaja said the UN resolution did not talk about the detention of a person.

The court asked the Punjab AG about the detention order of December 12, 2008, and to tell whether the evidences they had provided in this regard are sufficient. The court further asked the Punjab AG to provide solid proofs of the detention.

We will not move an inch unless you provide solid evidence against the office bearers of the JuD, the chief justice remarked.Tell us the law under which the accused was detained and than fit the case of detention into the said law, the chief justice asked the AG.

Raza Farooq, however, replied that his case is totally under the MPO Ordinance 1960.The AG told the court that under the British law, the government can order detention of a person who is involved against the solidarity of the country as well as against the welfare of the people while the court cannot interfere in such matters.

Justice Jawwad S Khawaja, however, said that the British constitution is not written, while the Pakistani law is written wherein the executive and other organs of the state are bound to abide by the law of the land.

Meanwhile, the court adjourned the hearing till today (Tuesday) wherein Deputy Attorney General Shah Khawar would argue on behalf of the federal government while A K Dogar, counsel for Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, would present his arguments before the bench.

The federal and Punjab governments had filed separate appeals in the apex court against the Lahore High Courts order of June 2, 2009, that freed Hafiz Muhammad Saeed and his close aide Col (retd) Nazir Ahmed from house arrest.

JuD chiefs detention


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## wtf

About the Chief Justice's comment -- What are the rules in Pakistan about detaining a suspect ? 

In India, if you arrest a person, you have to produce the accused in the court within a day and then court can send the accused to remand based on prosecutions request. The accused must be charged of a crime before (s)he can be remanded. The exception to this rule was POTA, which was an ordinance that allowed police custody without a full judicial review. This ordinance was removed by the current govt. in the previous term.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

wtf said:


> About the Chief Justice's comment -- What are the rules in Pakistan about detaining a suspect ?
> 
> In India, if you arrest a person, you have to produce the accused in the court within a day and then court can send the accused to remand based on prosecutions request. The accused must be charged of a crime before (s)he can be remanded. The exception to this rule was POTA, which was an ordinance that allowed police custody without a full judicial review. This ordinance was removed by the current govt. in the previous term.



(4) No law providing for preventive detention shall be made except to deal with persons acting in a manner prejudicial to the integrity, security or defence of Pakistan or any part thereof, or external affairs of Pakistan, or public order, or the maintenance of supplies or services, and no such law shall authorise the detention of a person for a period exceeding [10][three months] unless the appropriate Review Board has, after affording him an opportunity of being heard in person, reviewed his case and reported, before the expiration of the said period, that there is, in its opinion, sufficient cause for such detention, and, if the detention is continued after the said period of [10][three months], unless the appropriate Review Board has reviewed his case and reported, before the expiration of each period of three months, that there is, in its opinion, sufficient cause for such detention. 

Explanation-I: In this Article, "the appropriate Review Board" means,
(i) in the case of a person detained under a Federal law, a Board appointed by the Chief Justice of Pakistan and consisting of a Chairman and two other persons, each of whom is or has been a Judge of the Supreme Court or a High Court; and
(ii) in the case of a Person detained under a Provincial law, a Board appointed by the Chief Justice of the High Court concerned and consisting of a Chairman and two other persons, each of whom is or has been a Judge of a High Court.

Explanation-II: The opinion of a Review Board shall be expressed in terms of the views of the majority of its members. 

[Chapter 1: Fundamental Rights] of [Part II: Fundamental Rights and Principles of Policy]

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

*Punjab govt disassociates from Hafiz Saeed case*

Updated at: 1110 PST, Tuesday, July 14, 2009 
ISLAMABAD: The government of Punjab has decided to disassociate from Hafiz Saeed case and filed a plea for withdrawal of the case.

According to advocate general Punjab Raza Farooq, the ameer of Jamaatudawa Hafiz Saeed was put under house arrest on the directives of federal government, which has failed to provide solid evidences for house arrest. Therefore, Punjab government has decided to disassociate itself from Hafiz Saeed case. A petition for the withdrawal of the case has been filed in Supreme Court, he added.
Punjab govt disassociates from Hafiz Saeed case

----------------------------------

The GoP has lost the PR battle on Hafiz Saeed, and increasingly looks to lose the legal battle as well. Whatever 'confidential' evidence they claimed to have on him (in their presentation in the LHC), it has so far not appeared to impress the judges on either the LHC or SC.

The PML-N jumping ship on this case is critical, given that Zardari is not trusted - it will now appear (especially if the GoP loses the case) that he was targeting Saeed to 'appease' India and the US. With the PML-N on board he could atlest claim that it was a bipartisan effort in light of whatever evidence against Saeed they had.


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## afriend

Lakhvi mastermind of Mumbai attacks: Pak admits in dossier - India - NEWS - The Times of India
NEW DELHI: Suspecting involvement of locals in 26/11, Pakistan has sought from India the interrogation reports of two terrorists Fahim Ansari and Sabahuddin held in connection with the terror attack while giving details of the probe conducted by it. 

In the 36-page dossier, that contains some annexures, Pakistan has informed India about the case details of five terrorists, including Lashkar-e-Taiba commander and "mastermind" Zaki-ur Rahman Lakhvi, who have been arrested, sources said. 

Besides Lakhvi, the arrested Pakistanis have been identified as Hammad Amin Sadiq, Mazhar Iqbal alias Abu Al Qama, Abdul Wajid alias Zarrar Shah and Shahid Jamil Riaz. 

All the five had provided logistic and other kinds of support to the 10 Mumbai attackers, nine of whom were killed during the gunfights with security personnel. Ajmal Amir Kasab, the only surviving terrorist, was arrested. 

Lakhvi has been identified as "commander of LeT" and the "mastermind of terrorist attacks on Mumbai", Pakistan has noted, agreeing with India's contention. 

Sadiq has been identified as "facilitator of funds and hideouts" for the Mumbai attackers, Zarrar Shah as the "facilitator and expert in computer networks", Riaz as "facilitator through funding". 

Details about 13 other absconding accused are also contained in the dossier that is being studied by the Indian side. 

They are Muhammad Amjad Khan, Iftikhar Ali, Abdul Rehman, Muhammad Usman, Atiq-ur-Rehman, Riaz Ahmed Khan, Muhammad Mushtaq, Muhammad Naeem, Abdul Shakoor, Muhammad Sabir Salfi, Muhammad Usman and Shakil Ahmad. 

Among them Gafoor was the captain or "tandol" of 'Al Hussaini' and 'Al Fouz'. Rehman, Usman, Rehman, Riaz Ahmad, Mustaq, Naeem, Shakoor, Salfi, Usman and Shakil Ahmad were the crew members of 'Al Hussaini' or 'Al Fouz'. 

Amjad Khan has been identified as LeT organizer and facilitator in Karachi. 

Pakistan wants to know the interrogation details of Ansari and Sabahuddin as it suspects involvement of "Indian elements" in the Mumbai attacks. 

Pakistan has also sought the attested copies of experts who examined the GPS and Voice over Internet Protocol (VOIP) used during the Mumbai attacks. 

Pakistan has also sought details about the Samjhauta Express blast probe.


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## dabong1

afriend said:


> Pakistan has also sought details about the Samjhauta Express blast probe.



Good thing for pakistan to do......we help the indians on the mumbai attacks and the indians do the same when it comes to Samjhauta.


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## satishkumarcsc

Well Col. Purohit and Pragya Sadhvi are already in jail and last week Pragya Sadhvi's aide was arrested.


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## Maritimer

Col. Purohit and his associates are in jail for the Malegaon bomb blast, not for Samjhauta express attack. Apparently, the UN and US treasury has sanctioned LeT operatives living in Karachi for Samjhauta. There is another thread on this issue. Not sure what info Pakistan is seeking here.

Pakistan is justified in seeking info about the "Indian elements" in the Mumbai attacks. The truth about all those involved must come out in the open. It will help in cracking down on any jihadi sleeper cells present on Indian soil.


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## dabong1

Maritimer said:


> Col. Purohit and his associates are in jail for the Malegaon bomb blast, not for Samjhauta express attack. Apparently, the UN and US treasury has sanctioned LeT operatives living in Karachi for Samjhauta. There is another thread on this issue. Not sure what info Pakistan is seeking here.



So theres no problem with pakistan asking india for info on the Samjhauta express attacks is there? if it leads to the LeT arrests or if it leads to the indian army?


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## Maritimer

dabong1 said:


> So theres no problem with pakistan asking india for info on the Samjhauta express attacks is there? if it leads to the LeT arrests or if it leads to the indian army?



In fact, it is India that will be seeking info from Pakistan on the Karachi based terrorists, who have been sanctioned by UN. Indian authorities are not moving on this case, since there is no public pressure to do so, unlike the Mumbai attacks.

*Lead to Indian army? * don't know how you came up with that.


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## dabong1

Maritimer said:


> *Lead to Indian army? * don't know how you came up with that.



Let me give you the example of the Malegaon bomb.

Times of India reported that first arrest is made in Malegaon blast case. This is the arrest of Noor-Ul-Hooda, an activist of the Students Islamic Movement of India. The DGP of Mumbai, Mr. Pasricha said the they are very close to crack the case and the two other suspects are Shabeer Batterywala and Raees Ahmad.
Bangladeshi suspect held for Malegaon blasts - India - NEWS - The Times of India

Times of India reported from Anti Terrorist Squad (ATS) that the prime conspirator Shabbir Batterywala is an operative of Lashkar-e-Toiba [LeT] and the co-conspirator is Raees Ahmad is from SIMI.
Police arrest Malegaon blasts 'conspirator' - India - NEWS - The Times of India

In the September 2006 incident,police investigations have determined that the explosives contained in these bombings were "a cocktail of RDX, ammonium nitrate and fuel oil &#8212; the same mixture used in 7/11"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11_July_2006_Mumbai_train_bombings

Lashkar-e-Toiba and the banned Students Islamic Movement of India terrorist groups, and Pakistan's intelligence agency ISI were the prime suspects.
Following the bomb attacks, Minister of State of External Affairs E. Ahamed announced on 14 July that India would suspend the talks with Pakistan.

No it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that if the same type of expolsives that Col. Purohit and his associates "a cocktail of RDX" was used in other bombings then there must be some link?
Purohit supplied RDX for Samjhauta bomb: ATS

Purohit supplied RDX for Samjhauta bomb: ATS - Express India
2007 Uttar Pradesh bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Weapon(s) Improvised explosive devices made with Ammonium nitrate and RDX.

From the above links you can why i am sceptical of indian claims.


----------



## Su 30mki

dabong1 said:


> Good thing for pakistan to do......we help the indians on the mumbai attacks and the indians do the same when it comes to Samjhauta.



Well first of all you know one thing 
1) Samjhuta exp was happened on Indian territory
2) PAK didnt provide any proof regarding Samjhuta bast because they dont have.
3) Samjhuta exp was ruled out by team who are probing it and only because it tries to explore this angle, you are making huge and cry

what PAK Did provide Samjhuta Bast case proof ??


----------



## Su 30mki

dabong1 said:


> Let me give you the example of the Malegaon bomb.
> 
> Times of India reported that first arrest is made in Malegaon blast case. This is the arrest of Noor-Ul-Hooda, an activist of the Students Islamic Movement of India. The DGP of Mumbai, Mr. Pasricha said the they are very close to crack the case and the two other suspects are Shabeer Batterywala and Raees Ahmad.
> Bangladeshi suspect held for Malegaon blasts - India - NEWS - The Times of India
> 
> Times of India reported from Anti Terrorist Squad (ATS) that the prime conspirator Shabbir Batterywala is an operative of Lashkar-e-Toiba [LeT] and the co-conspirator is Raees Ahmad is from SIMI.
> Police arrest Malegaon blasts 'conspirator' - India - NEWS - The Times of India
> 
> In the September 2006 incident,police investigations have determined that the explosives contained in these bombings were "a cocktail of RDX, ammonium nitrate and fuel oil &#8212; the same mixture used in 7/11"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11_July_2006_Mumbai_train_bombings
> 
> Lashkar-e-Toiba and the banned Students Islamic Movement of India terrorist groups, and Pakistan's intelligence agency ISI were the prime suspects.
> Following the bomb attacks, Minister of State of External Affairs E. Ahamed announced on 14 July that India would suspend the talks with Pakistan.
> 
> No it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that if the same type of expolsives that Col. Purohit and his associates "a cocktail of RDX" was used in other bombings then there must be some link?
> Purohit supplied RDX for Samjhauta bomb: ATS
> 
> Purohit supplied RDX for Samjhauta bomb: ATS - Express India
> 2007 Uttar Pradesh bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Weapon(s) Improvised explosive devices made with Ammonium nitrate and RDX.
> 
> From the above links you can why i am sceptical of indian claims.



From the Indian Express from your given Link

The Maharashtra Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) *suspects* that Lt Col Prasad Purohit supplied the RDX that was used in the Samjhauta Express blast on February 18, 2007 that killed 68 passengers.

*The ATS suspects* Purohit supplied the explosive to a person named &#8216;Bhagwan&#8217; who is believed to be a link in the bomb blasts. 

You knows Word *"Suspect"*, it dont only merely said of thinking.

and you are already declared that are. read Worlds and news carefully. and ATS find no evidence liking of that, and if PAK has , then Provide?


----------



## Maritimer

Any investigation of terror activities will have suspects and conspiracy theories. What matters is hard evidence and conviction. So far, there is no such evidence against Purohit & co in relation to Samjhauta blast except for some similarities with the Malegaon blast. On the contrary, Karachi based terrorists have been sanctioned by the UN and US, linking them with various attacks on India including Samjhauta. Pakistan must pursue these leads and find out the truth about Samjhauta blasts through its own investigations. When Indian investigations are complete, India will share the info with Pakistan.


----------



## dabong1

Su 30mki said:


> Well first of all you know one thing
> 1) Samjhuta exp was happened on Indian territory



If the train had been full of indians and it been bombed in pakistani dont you think the indians asking a joint investigation would have not been an unjust demand?



Su 30mki said:


> 2) PAK didnt provide any proof regarding Samjhuta bast because they dont have.
> 3) Samjhuta exp was ruled out by team who are probing it and only because it tries to explore this angle, you are making huge and cry
> what PAK Did provide Samjhuta Bast case proof ??



How is pakistan going to have proof when it is not allowed to investigate........what if it turns out that it was the LeT that bombed the train? it only makes the indian claim stronger against the LeT.

If we go from the point that the indian army-personnel have no hand in the samjohta attack, the indian can ask for a joint team of pakistani and indians to investigate the bombings of samjohta but as a counter gesture the pakistanis have to form a joint team working on the mumbai attacks with the indians.
If the indian army has no hand in the attack its a win win situation for india.


----------



## dabong1

Maritimer said:


> Any investigation of terror activities will have suspects and conspiracy theories. What matters is hard evidence and conviction. So far, there is no such evidence against Purohit & co in relation to Samjhauta blast except for some similarities with the Malegaon blast.



Do you accept that Lt Col Prasad Purohit of Military intelligence was involved in the Malegaon?
The last i heard
Mumbai, Jan 20 (IANS) The mastermind behind the Malegaon blast is serving Indian Army officer Lt. Col. Prasad S. Purohit whose aim was to establish a &#8220;Hindu nation&#8221; by seeking the help of Israel, a high-ranking police official said here Tuesday.&#8221;He wanted to seek the help of Israel to further his cause since he felt that the Indian constitution was not enough to tackle what was happening in the country,&#8221; Mumbai Police&#8217;s Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) chief K.P. Raghuvanshi told reporters. 
&#8216;Lt.Col. Purohit wanted to create Hindu nation&#8217;



Maritimer said:


> On the contrary, Karachi based terrorists have been sanctioned by the UN and US, linking them with various attacks on India including Samjhauta. Pakistan must pursue these leads and find out the truth about Samjhauta blasts through its own investigations. When Indian investigations are complete, India will share the info with Pakistan.



The last i heard on the Samjhauta bombings was that the the suitcase bombs that blew up two bogies of the India-Pakistan Samjhauta Express near Panipat killing 68 passengers mostly pakistanis were assembled in Indore,India.
The attack which took place a day before the high profile visit of Pakistan's Foreign Minister Khurshid Ahmed Kasuri to Delhi for bilateral peace talks.
'Samjhauta Express bomb was assembled in Indore' : India Today - Latest Breaking News from India, World, Business, Cricket, Sports, Bollywood.

*"terror activities will have suspects and conspiracy theories."* If i recall thats what most indians where saying about the Malegaon blast when it was pointed that it was the indian army people doing the blast and not jihad groups.....a conspiracy theory!


----------



## dabong1

Manzoor_Elahi said:


> India-Pakistan future relationship is based on Mumbai attacks case...must be sorted out properly.



It makes no difference.....the indian have a list of people that they want and they will demand every person the list before proper talks can begin......and after that some other excuse.

I think it is important to find out how many bombs blast where carried by the indian army and that where blamed on pakistan,lets get to the bottom of that investigation first before we start the whole future relationship between pakistani and india on the line.


----------



## Maritimer

dabong1 said:


> Do you accept that Lt Col Prasad Purohit of Military intelligence was involved in the Malegaon?
> The last i heard
> Mumbai, Jan 20 (IANS) The mastermind behind the Malegaon blast is serving Indian Army officer Lt. Col. Prasad S. Purohit whose aim was to establish a Hindu nation by seeking the help of Israel, a high-ranking police official said here Tuesday.He wanted to seek the help of Israel to further his cause since he felt that the Indian constitution was not enough to tackle what was happening in the country, Mumbai Polices Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) chief K.P. Raghuvanshi told reporters.
> Lt.Col. Purohit wanted to create Hindu nation
> 
> *The last i heard on the Samjhauta bombings* was that the the suitcase bombs that blew up two bogies of the India-Pakistan Samjhauta Express near Panipat killing 68 passengers mostly pakistanis were assembled in Indore,India. The attack which took place a day before the high profile visit of Pakistan's Foreign Minister Khurshid Ahmed Kasuri to Delhi for bilateral peace talks.



Purohit and his associates, who are in custody are suspects in the Malegaon case. If the investigations find that they were involved in the conspiracy and execution of the terror acts, they will be prosecuted and punished. However, their links with Samjhauta are still being probed, nothing has been established. 

You have some catching up to do with all the news. The US Treasury and UN sanctions on LeT for Samjhauta blasts to start with. There is an separate thread on this development.


----------



## dabong1

Maritimer said:


> You have some catching up to do with all the news. The US Treasury and UN sanctions on LeT for Samjhauta blasts to start with. There is an separate thread on this development.



I heard that one before

Times of India reported from Anti Terrorist Squad (ATS) that the prime conspirator Shabbir Batterywala is an operative of Lashkar-e-Toiba [LeT] and the co-conspirator is Raees Ahmad is from SIMI.
Police arrest Malegaon blasts 'conspirator' - India - NEWS - The Times of India


----------



## Maritimer

^^^Mate. I think you have confused the two Malegaon blasts. The September 8, 2006 bicycle bomb blasts that killed 38 people are allegedly perpetrated by LeT/SIMI as reported by TOI quoted by you. Wiki link

The September 29, 2008 blast in Malegaon is the one suspected to be carried out by Purohit & associates. Wiki link


----------



## dabong1

Maritimer said:


> ^^^Mate. I think you have confused the two Malegaon blasts. The September 8, 2006 bicycle bomb blasts that killed 38 people are allegedly perpetrated by LeT/SIMI as reported by TOI quoted by you. Wiki link
> 
> The September 29, 2008 blast in Malegaon is the one suspected to be carried out by Purohit & associates. Wiki link



Sorry mate i thinks its you that does not get the point.........the indians where convinced that the LeT or jihadi group had carried out the attack and it was your own army that did the dirty deed......so whats to say that they have carried out more then just one attack.

The point about samjohata and the link to hindu fundamentalist is another that indians are not willing to investigate.


----------



## Maritimer

dabong1 said:


> Sorry mate i thinks its you that does not get the point.........the indians where convinced that the LeT or jihadi group had carried out the attack and it was your own army that did the dirty deed......so whats to say that they have carried out more then just one attack.
> 
> The point about samjohata and the link to hindu fundamentalist is another that *indians are not willing to investigate*.



Who do you think investigated and held the suspected Hindu fundamentalists? Nobody in India is convinced about anything in the Malegaon cases. LeT is the prime suspect in first Malegaon blast and Purohit is suspect for Malegaon second blast. Both cases are being investigated and law will take its own course to bring the culprits to justice.

It is only your misconception that all terror attacks in India are blamed on Pakistan. I can understand that Pakistani media only reports cases where India has blamed Pakistani elements and does not report the attacks carried out by Indian groups, and rightly so.

Pakistan has to now investigate the role of Arif Qasmani and his friends for the Samjhauta attacks, as implicated by the international community.

We can open a separate thread to discuss in detail all the terror attacks in India, if you wish to. Shall we bring this thread back to the topic of master mind of Mumbai attacks, please.


----------



## haawk

this thread is abt pak accepting that it was lakvi who mastermided the mumbai massacre !!!!!! instead of going to malegoan blasts .... i would like to pakistani view of this acceptance!!

pakistani members plz


----------



## dabong1

haawk said:


> this thread is abt pak accepting that it was lakvi who mastermided the mumbai massacre !!!!!! instead of going to malegoan blasts .... i would like to pakistani view of this acceptance!!
> 
> pakistani members plz



Do accept that pakistani citizens where involved in the mumbai attack.....YES

Do i think the pakistani govt was involved......NO

Do i think the indian govt was involved......NO

Do i think indian citizens involved in the attack....YES

But i am suspcious of previous attacks in india that have been blamed on pakistan and think that a joint team should be set to investigate the mumbai attacks as well as previous attacks........even on the mumbai attacks i have suspicions of collusion between indian army elements and the killers.
Mumbai terror suspect 'was Indian undercover cop'
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5302946.ece

A few questions also arise here......how did he hand over the sims to the terrorists?.....if he gave the sims to a middle man,why has the middle man not been arrested?

It might be my firtile imagination at work the ploice officer caught with the SIMS was from kashmir and the RDX used by col Purohit was also from the same region...maybe theres a link.


----------



## arihant

Title is misleading. Everything has been proved. Useless topic to be sticked.


----------



## dabong1

If we go of facts the indian establishment has been proven to be involved in the mumbai attacks.....the military intelligence agent supplying phone sims to the terrorist http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5302946.ece...what happened to this story,was there some innocent outcome to this?


----------



## arihant

dabong1 said:


> If we go of facts the indian establishment has been proven to be involved in the mumbai attacks.....the military intelligence agent supplying phone sims to the terrorist http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5302946.ece...what happened to this story,was there some innocent outcome to this?



 So, you want to that whatever Govt. of Pakistan said in Press was almost lie. This is the only article of its kind. Do you want me to put links of all articles that claim attack was from Pakistan.


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## dabong1

arihant said:


> So, you want to that whatever Govt. of Pakistan said in Press was almost lie. This is the only article of its kind.



Indian Police Arrest 2 Men in Mumbai Investigation - ABC News

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Anger at 'blown' Mumbai arrests

India police: Man arrested in Mumbai probe is an undercover cop - Haaretz - Israel News

FOXNews.com - Report: Mumbai Terror Suspect Was Indian 'Undercover Cop' - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News



arihant said:


> Do you want me to put links of all articles that claim attack was from Pakistan.



Did i say pakistanis where not involved in the attack.
Are you trying to tell me that the mumbai attackers had no help from indian citizens?Looking into it it seems the indian govt was involved with one of it officers being arrested for providing sims to the terrorist....how did he meet them?....if a middle man was involved why has he not been arrested.


----------



## arihant

dabong1 said:


> Did i say pakistanis where not involved in the attack.
> Are you trying to tell me that the mumbai attackers had no help from indian citizens?Looking into it it seems the indian govt was involved with one of it officers being arrested for providing sims to the terrorist....how did he meet them?....if a middle man was involved why has he not been arrested.



Who says Mumbai Attackers had no help from indian citizen. They did have otherwise nothing could have been achieved. 

By reading the article, it reveals that to get plan details of Laskhar, Indian Intelligence use to provide sim cards. Same SIM card was use by Lashkar in the Mumbai Attack.

So it means that, guy provided sim to lashkar people, they gave it to Abu Ismail and everything got revealed. So basically it proved that Lashkar was behind the attacks.


----------



## dabong1

arihant said:


> Who says Mumbai Attackers had no help from indian citizen. They did have otherwise nothing could have been achieved.
> 
> By reading the article, it reveals that to get plan details of Laskhar, Indian Intelligence use to provide sim cards. Same SIM card was use by Lashkar in the Mumbai Attack.
> 
> So it means that, guy provided sim to lashkar people, they gave it to Abu Ismail and everything got revealed. So basically it proved that Lashkar was behind the attacks.



So why didnt they stop the attack?


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## dabong1

wrong post edited


----------



## arihant

dabong1 said:


> So why didnt they stop the attack?



You are joking, am I right.  Same thing applies to 9/11 and all earlier attacks. It's not easy to carry out anything without local helps. Same happened with 9/11 Plot. Matter is that you openly support that Lashker spread terrorism (you call it freedom fighter) and same carried out attack in Mumbai.


----------



## dabong1

arihant said:


> You are joking, am I right.


please stop with the  



arihant said:


> Same thing applies to 9/11 and all earlier attacks. It's not easy to carry out anything without local helps. Same happened with 9/11 Plot.



what local help did they get?



arihant said:


> Matter is that you openly support that Lashker spread terrorism (you call it freedom fighter) and same carried out attack in Mumbai.



I will support the freedom fighters in kashmir until a fair solution is reached.....the only time there not freedom fighters is if they target civilians like the mumbai attackers then there terrorist.
The only way this is going to stop is if there is a deal on kashmir.


----------



## EjazR

dabong1 said:


> Do we or do we not agree that the people involved in the mumbai attacks should have there heads chopped off?



Although a large section would say yes. I hope not straightaway. The only reason being, Kasab is the pawn. He should be used to ID his handlers. If Pakistani govt. has agreed to crack down on the suspects, Kasab can confirm if that is indeed the case as a witness.

But eventually yes, even according to Islamic law, any one causing fitna and fasad should get capital punishment.


And adding to riju's post, the same channel also showed a documentary on Gujarat riots in collaboration with Tehelka. They always do hard hitting journalism


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## IceCold

bugger said:


> Blah Blah...so you believe whatever the British will say....it originated from your soil and you are squarely to blame.



Will somebody shut this troll up.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## SurvivoR

arihant said:


> Who says Mumbai Attackers had no help from indian citizen. They did have otherwise nothing could have been achieved.
> 
> By reading the article, it reveals that to get plan details of Laskhar, Indian Intelligence use to provide sim cards. Same SIM card was use by Lashkar in the Mumbai Attack.
> 
> So it means that, guy provided sim to lashkar people, they gave it to Abu Ismail and everything got revealed. So basically it proved that Lashkar was behind the attacks.



So basicaly Indian Intellegence had links with Lashkar operatives right!


----------



## dabong1

SurvivoR said:


> So basicaly Indian Intellegence had links with Lashkar operatives right!



As far as i can gather from news reports indian intellegence gave the mumbai attackers phone sims and that one of the reasons thats probably why we got hear all the conversations between the attackers.
The point of interest is if Indian Intellegence gave the sims to the attackers then why not stop the attack.....if indian intellegence operative used a middeman why has he not been arrested.


----------



## waraich66

India gives Pakistan new Mumbai attack evidence Buzz Up Share
Twitter Delicious Myspace Digg Stumble Upon Facebook Sun, Aug 2 08:48 AM
India gave Pakistan on Saturday a new dossier of evidence to investigate the Mumbai attacks and prosecute Hafiz Saeed, the suspected mastermind of the three-day carnage that killed 166 people.

A Foreign Ministry statement said the evidence was handed over after Pakistan gave India an update on its investigation into last November's attacks and sought more information last month.

Saeed heads the Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD) charity, which the United Nations said in December was a front for the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), an outlawed militant group accused of carrying out the assault on India's financial capital.

The dossier is a 7-page document which answers questions raised by Islamabad on the earlier evidence provided by New Delhi, Home Minister Palaniappan Chidambaram told reporters.

"Pakistan is asking for answers to questions which are already there. Nevertheless, I have taken the trouble of dictating the (new) response," he said. Chidambaram said India had already given enough evidence to Pakistan to arrest and prosecute Saeed, who was put under house arrest in December but was released in June by a Pakistani court that said there was no evidence against him.

He is one of 38 people, including Pakistani nationals, accused by India of being key planners of the guns-and-grenades attacks by 10 gunmen India says were Pakistanis.

The raid led to renewed tension between the nuclear-armed rivals as India "paused" a sluggish peace process and demanded Islamabad "dismantle the infrastructure of terrorism".

"The evidence provided in three (earlier) dossiers to Pakistan in our view is sufficient to investigate the role of Hafiz Saeed," Chidambaram said.

Saeed founded the LeT militant group in 1990, and for years it battled Indian forces in the disputed Kashmir region, the flashpoint for more than 60 years of rivalry between India and Pakistan. Both claim it in full but rule in part.

India says the assault on Mumbai was carried out by Pakistan-based LeT militants who must have had backing from some official Pakistani agencies.

Pakistan denies official involvement but has acknowledged the coordinated attacks on Mumbai were launched and partly planned from Pakistan's soil, and that the sole surviving attacker was Pakistani.

Pakistan has lodged police complaints against eight suspects, including Mohammad Ajmal Kasab, the only militant caught alive by Indian forces during the attack. Saeed was not among the eight.

(Additional reporting by Krittivas Mukherjee)


----------



## IceCold

I wonder why is India giving evidence in stages or when Pakistan asks of them inorder to make a case against Saeed.
By the way why have you made an angry face with the title thread fundamentalist?


----------



## waraich66

IceCold said:


> I wonder why is India giving evidence in stages or when Pakistan asks of them inorder to make a case against Saeed.
> By the way why have you made an angry face with the title thread fundamentalist?



India is trying to cover its involvement in balouchistan ,this evidence is in response to our dossier handed over to India.


----------



## arihant

Fundamentalist said:


> India is trying to cover its involvement in balouchistan ,this evidence is in response to our dossier handed over to India.



which dossier you mean


----------



## haawk

IceCold said:


> I wonder why is India giving evidence in stages or when Pakistan asks of them inorder to make a case against Saeed.
> By the way why have you made an angry face with the title thread fundamentalist?






the evidence is not given in stages!!!!!!your officials just cannot read carefully the evidence provided......and they ask some questions regularly _like fill in the blanks type!!!!!_


Seven-page response with annexures

Handed over to Pakistans Deputy High Commissioner

NEW DELHI: Indias response to the latest set of questions sent by Pakistan in connection with their investigations into the 26/11 terror attack in Mumbai has been handed over to the Pakistan High Commission here.

Union Home Minister P. Chidambaram said on Saturday that a seven-page response with annexures was given to the External Affairs Ministry for transmission to the Pakistani government.

*Responding to queries by journalists, he said the set of questions given by Pakistan were routine and procedural  in the nature of fill-in-the-blank type of queries  and asked for information that had already been given to them.*

*If only they [Pakistan] would have read our Criminal Procedure Code (Cr.PC) thoroughly, such questions would not have been asked, he said.*

An official release by the Ministry of External Affairs said the response was given to Pakistans Deputy High Commissioner Rifat Masood by Joint Secretary in the External Affairs Ministry T.C.A. Raghavan.

Mr. Masood was called to the Ministry and handed over the response, which was finalised in keeping with Prime Minister Manmohan Singhs assurance given to his Pakistani counterpart Yusuf Raza Gilani at Sharm-el-Sheikh in Egypt last month.

On July 11, Pakistan gave India a dossier providing an update on the investigations in Pakistan into the Mumbai terror attacks, containing a request for further evidence.

Mr. Chidambaram said there was sufficient evidence to continue the investigation against Hafiz Saeed, Jamaat-ud-Dawa chief.

On Saeed, the Lashkar-e-Taiba founder whom India has described as the prime accused in the attacks, Mr. Chidambaram said New Delhi has provided enough evidence in three dossiers to Islamabad to continue the probe and launch prosecution against him.


----------



## IceCold

Fundamentalist said:


> India is trying to cover its involvement in balouchistan ,this evidence is in response to our dossier handed over to India.



Well India already refused they got any dossier from Pakistan and so have the US and you know the worse part is, there is a complete silence maintained by GOP who otherwise should have had come forward with the evidence infront of the media and the latter stage should have been the UN.


----------



## arihant

IceCold said:


> Well India already refused they got any dossier from Pakistan and so have the US and you know the worse part is, there is a complete silence maintained by GOP who otherwise should have had come forward with the evidence infront of the media and the latter stage should have been the UN.



You told the whole story but without the morale. ?


----------



## IceCold

haawk said:


> the evidence is not given in stages!!!!!!your officials just cannot read carefully the evidence provided......and they ask some questions regularly _like fill in the blanks type!!!!!_
> 
> 
> Seven-page response with annexures
> 
> Handed over to Pakistans Deputy High Commissioner
> 
> NEW DELHI: Indias response to the latest set of questions sent by Pakistan in connection with their investigations into the 26/11 terror attack in Mumbai has been handed over to the Pakistan High Commission here.
> 
> Union Home Minister P. Chidambaram said on Saturday that a seven-page response with annexures was given to the External Affairs Ministry for transmission to the Pakistani government.
> 
> *Responding to queries by journalists, he said the set of questions given by Pakistan were routine and procedural  in the nature of fill-in-the-blank type of queries  and asked for information that had already been given to them.*
> 
> *If only they [Pakistan] would have read our Criminal Procedure Code (Cr.PC) thoroughly, such questions would not have been asked, he said.*
> 
> An official release by the Ministry of External Affairs said the response was given to Pakistans Deputy High Commissioner Rifat Masood by Joint Secretary in the External Affairs Ministry T.C.A. Raghavan.
> 
> Mr. Masood was called to the Ministry and handed over the response, which was finalised in keeping with Prime Minister Manmohan Singhs assurance given to his Pakistani counterpart Yusuf Raza Gilani at Sharm-el-Sheikh in Egypt last month.
> 
> On July 11, Pakistan gave India a dossier providing an update on the investigations in Pakistan into the Mumbai terror attacks, containing a request for further evidence.
> 
> Mr. Chidambaram said there was sufficient evidence to continue the investigation against Hafiz Saeed, Jamaat-ud-Dawa chief.
> 
> On Saeed, the Lashkar-e-Taiba founder whom India has described as the prime accused in the attacks, Mr. Chidambaram said New Delhi has provided enough evidence in three dossiers to Islamabad to continue the probe and launch prosecution against him.



I am not interested in what your Mr.Chidambaram has to say.


----------



## arihant

IceCold said:


> I am not interested in what your Mr.Chidambaram has to say.



Then whom you are interested. The silence of GOP or the pieces of news spread by media of pakistan.


----------



## IceCold

arihant said:


> You told the whole story but without the morale. ?



Man seriously dont waste my time if you have nothing to add to the debate.
And yes there could be 2 morals for the story one we dont have the evidence(you will love that) and second GOP is a sold out over the issue.
My pick is the latter one.


----------



## arihant

IceCold said:


> Man seriously dont waste my time if you have nothing to add to the debate.
> And yes there could be 2 morals for the story one we dont have the evidence(you will love that) and second GOP is a sold out over the issue.
> My pick is the latter one.



There is possibility of both. First there is no evidence and other is that it is sold out to either any one. (US, India or even balouch leader). 

We don't have to interfere where you have evidence or not. We stay on the stance that India is not indulge in Baluchistan Insurgency. The balouch topic appearing now on international frame must have given one more chance to Balouch leaders.

*Please now maintain, on topic discussion. *

For your information, Pakistan gave some questionnaire to be answered by India and which India did replied in this dossier.


----------



## AnGrz_Z_K_Jailer

Press Trust of India, Sunday August 2, 2009, London 

Holding the LeT responsible for last year's Mumbai attacks, a British Parliamentary committee on Sunday said several major terror attacks across the world, including in London, Madrid and Bali, had origins in the tribal areas of Pakistan.

A report by the powerful Foreign Affairs Committee quoted a former CIA chief as saying that Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Toiba, blamed by India for attacks on its soil including on Mumbai, has reached a "merge point" with Al-Qaida.

"It was from the tribal areas in Pakistan that the bomb plots in London, Madrid, Bali, Islamabad and later Germany and Denmark were planned," the report on "Global Security: Afghanistan and Pakistan" headed by lawmaker Mike Gapes said.

It said: "The LeT group, which was responsible for the November 2008 Mumbai attacks which targeted Westerns, in particular US and UK nationals, also operates from these tribal areas. The former head of the CIA, Michael Hayden, claimed earlier this year that LeT had reached a 'merge point' with al Qaeda."

The report also said that a section within the Pakistani Army and the intelligence agency ISI still feels that "India, rather than the Islamic terrorists," were the main threat to it. 

"We welcome the increasing recognition at senior levels within the Pakistani military of the need for a recalibrated approach to militancy but we remain concerned that this may not necessarily be replicated elsewhere within the army and ISI," the report said.

It welcomed Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari's remarks that he regarded terrorism not India as the real threat to his country. However it raised doubts over "whether the underlying fundamentals of Pakistani security policy have changed sufficiently to realise the goals of long-term security and stability in Afghanistan."

The report on Afghanistan and Pakistan published on Sunday commended the Zardari government for having taken some important steps to counter insurgency at a considerable cost in terms of military lives lost.

Lord Mark Malloch-Brown, who recently quit as minister of state for foreign affairs, concurred with the view.

He said: "We are convinced that the ISI is on board institutionally, and that the leaderships of both the army and the ISI are supportive of the president and his strategy, which is reflected through the meetings that we have had with the Chief of Army Staff General Kayani."

The report also raised "deep concern" over the safety of nuclear technology in Pakistan and on the claims of "possible collusion" between the ISI and the Al-Qaida. 

"We conclude that allegations raised during our inquiry about the safety of nuclear technology and claims of possible collusion between Pakistan's intelligence agency, the ISI and Al-Qaida are a matter of deep concern," the report said.

"We recommend that in its response to this report, the Government sets out its assessment of these allegations and the extent of the threat that this poses," it said.

On the role of madrassas in the country, the report concluded that there was a "pressing need" for the Pakistani government "to address the role that some madrassas play in the recruitment and radicalisation process in Pakistan".

"We recommend that the British Government sets out in its response to this report what discussions it has had with the Pakistani Government about this issue, and whether it has raised allegations of Saudi Arabian funding of radical madrassas with the Saudi authorities."

---------- Post added at 03:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:46 AM ----------

Link : LeT responsible for Mumbai attacks: UK report


----------



## Metallic

*FBI expert testifies at Mumbai terror attack trial*
*12 AUGUST 2009*

MUMBAI, India  The gunmen who laid siege to the Indian city of Mumbai carried GPS devices and a satellite phone that shows they traveled from Pakistan to India, an FBI expert testified Wednesday at the trial of the lone surviving suspect.

Police recovered the devices during their investigation of the November attack, which killed 166 people. One GPS device was found on the fishing boat the ten gunmen hijacked and used to sail to Mumbai. Another was recovered from the Jewish center Nariman House and two more from the Taj Mahal hotel, sites of two gunbattles, according to an investigation report.

The data showed that the devices had traveled from a spot off the coast of Karachi, Pakistan, to Mumbai, the electronics expect from the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation said. The expert appeared anonymously per a court order.

It also indicated that they had been used around Karachi, Mumbai and Rawalpindi, a city in northern Pakistan where the accused Ajmal Kasab has said he first came into contact with members of Lashkar-e-Taiba, the radical Islamist group accused of masterminding the assault.

The evidence could help bolster Indian claims that Pakistan is not doing enough to clamp down on militants operating on its territory.

The court that's trying Kasab has issued arrest warrants for 22 Pakistanis accused of conspiring in the attack, including Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, founder of the Pakistan-based Islamist militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba. Saeed was released from house arrest in June by a Pakistani court because of insufficient evidence, sparking outrage in India.

Timothy Roemer, the new U.S. ambassador to India, told reporters in New Delhi Wednesday that "the United States stands firmly behind India against terrorism" and that the Obama administration is committed to working with India "to bring the perpetrators of this brutal attack, this bloodthirsty attack on Mumbai to justice."

Kasab, who has confessed to playing a role in the attack, could face the death penalty if convicted.


_Source: Associated Press _


----------



## Ruag

India's China Problem - Forbes.com

I never knew a country such as China could scoop so low.


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## Developereo

No, no, no...

Maoist and Bangladeshi terrorists trained in Pakistan using Chinese weapons and infiltrated India where they were helped by Sri Lankan, Burmese and Naxalite agents.

Poor old RAW was eaten alive (kuccha).

Yep. That's it!

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## Ruag

The article also says - 



> *Breaking up India is about the only thing Beijing can do to keep pace with its subcontinent rival.*
> 
> *Starting liberalization later than China, India has appeared to be a laggard. But now India is consistently posting big increases in gross domestic product. In the most recently concluded fiscal year, the country's GDP growth came in at 6.7&#37;. Beijing's National Bureau of Statistics claims higher growth, but its numbers are overstated. Moreover, the Chinese have an export-led model that is particularly ill-suited to current global conditions while the Indians have a more balanced economy bound to outperform China's in the years ahead.*

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## grey boy 2

Ruag said:


> The article also says -
> 
> 
> 
> The Chinese regard the 20th century as the "century of shame and humiliation". And by supporting the killing of innocent women and children, they are definitely risking to turn the 21st century into another century of shame for them.



Oh, yes; Real solid evidence ?

This B.S. article was writtin by Gordon Chang, a well known anti

China writer. He also wrote a book, The Collapse Of China.

If that was true , why GOI did't say anything?

Why nothing on the news?

And now you indian trying to make the most out of

this B.S. article, cursing China to revenge for your lost DIGNITY!!

Now continue to ENJOY your SHAMEFUL memory of 1962!!!

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## Ruag

grey boy 2 said:


> Oh, yes; Real solid evidence ?
> 
> This B.S. article was writtin by Gordon Chang, a well known anti
> 
> China writer. He also wrote a book, The Collapse Of China.
> 
> If that was true , why GOI did't say anything?
> 
> Why nothing on the news?
> 
> And now you *dum A@S indian *trying to make the most out of
> 
> this B.S. article, cursing China to revenge for your lost DIGNITY!!
> 
> Now continue to ENJOY your SHAMEFUL memory of 1962!!!



I don't want to degrade myself by replying to a person who can't keep a check on his mannerism.


----------



## SinoIndusFriendship

Ruag said:


> India's China Problem - Forbes.com
> 
> I never knew a country such as China could scoop so low.



I always knew racist fanatics would believe & spread lies. 

This "news" is an 'opinion' from China-hating Gordan Chang published by hate-filled jewish-zionist forbes. Any other questions?!

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## Ruag

> Last edited by WebMaster; Today at 06:08 AM. Reason: Cut out personal attacks.




If that personal attack was made by Indian member on this forum, either the entire comment would have been deleted or the member would be at least facing a ban.


----------



## Ruag

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> I always knew racist fanatics would believe & spread lies.
> 
> This "news" is an 'opinion' from China-hating Gordan Chang published by hate-filled jewish-zionist forbes. Any other questions?!



Well.. from his biography it seems that he is Chinese. And I'm pretty sure Forbes magazine will not publish an opinion unless it sees some credibility in it. After all, the magazine's own credibility is at stake.


----------



## SinoIndusFriendship

Ruag said:


> If that personal attack was made by Indian member on this forum, either the entire comment would have been deleted or the member would be at least facing a ban.



That's because this thread contains obvious lies used for defamation - grey boy was only responding out of disgust. And for your information, non-Indian (Pak, Chinese, SL, BD) members who committed far less offences than Indian members have been banned many times in the past. Indian members make up more than half here.

If this article had substantiated (mostly) un-biased content then it would be appropriate. But this is merely Gordan Chang's "opinion" TAKEN AS FACT, when in reality it is full of lies and nonsense. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

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## grey boy 2

Ruag said:


> I don't want to degrade myself by replying to a person who can't keep a check on his mannerism.



The real reasons are;

You B.S. got busted!!

You worry i am going ask your proof on whether Indians can make

a decent rifle!! Which you never could!!

And don't you run away like a pus@y when you lost a debate!!

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## Developereo

Ruag said:


> I'm pretty sure Forbes magazine will not publish an opinion unless it sees some credibility in it. After all, the magazine's own credibility is at stake.



That comment belongs in this thread:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/797-joke.html

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## Ruag

grey boy 2 said:


> The real reasons are;
> 
> You B.S. got busted!!
> 
> You worry i am going ask your proof on whether Indians can make
> 
> a decent rifle!! Which you never could!!
> 
> And don't you run away like a pus@y when you lost a debate!!



Losing your cool huh?! Fact remains that I don't need to use abusive words because I never lost a debate. And regarding rifles, there is plenty of information on the web regarding state-of-the art INSAS Excalibur and Zittara. I'm sorry but I'm not your personal web search assistant. 

So.. carry on with your rants. It speaks volumes about you.


----------



## Ruag

Developereo said:


> That comment belongs in this thread:
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/797-joke.html



Behold! We have a member of the Pakistan Defence Forum who dares to question the credibility of Forbes. Hmm.. maybe he is angry at Forbes because their billionaire list didn't include a single Pakistani. Or maybe because Forbes revealed to the entire world that Pakistan's forex reserves stand at just $11.77 billion. (Pakistan's forex reserves fall to $11.77 bln - Forbes.com)


Anyways, we are deviating from the topic.

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## gubbi

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> This "news" is an 'opinion' from China-hating Gordan Chang published by hate-filled jewish-zionist forbes. Any other questions?!



What is so Hate-filled, Jewish-Zionist about Forbes? Can you elaborate please? 

When Forbes posts articles about Pakistan's or Chinese economic developments, its a very good, professional, respectable source, but come a not-so-flattering article, it suddenly gets transformed into a hate-mongering Jewish-Zionist propaganda tool?

yawn.....


----------



## SinoIndusFriendship

Forbes was never that 'respectable' beyond readers who believed propaganda. And if you are 'yawning' perhaps you should

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## Developereo

Ruag said:


> Behold! We have a member of the Pakistan Defence Forum who dares to question the credibility of Forbes. Hmm.. maybe he is angry at Forbes because their billionaire list didn't include a single Pakistani. Or maybe because Forbes revealed to the entire world that Pakistan's forex reserves stand at just $11.77 billion. (Pakistan's forex reserves fall to $11.77 bln - Forbes.com)
> 
> 
> Anyways, we are deviating from the topic.



Why would I hold it against Forbes to not include a Pakistani billionaire? If we don't have a billionaire, we don't have one. What has Forbes got to do with it?

The credibility of the entire Zionist-dominated Western media is suspect when it comes to geopolitical issues, especially in the Middle East and adjacent areas.

Given that India is the new Western stooge in Asia to counter China's growing influence, any article about China-India relations should be taken with a grain of salt.

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## gubbi

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> But this is merely Gordan Chang's "opinion" TAKEN AS FACT, when in reality it is full of lies and nonsense. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.



Since you consider the article biased, can you please post sources to the contrary? We would really like to know. Since you are prone to make such sweeping comments, we would like to see some credible sources for your comments, lest people start suspecting your credibility.


----------



## gubbi

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> Forbes was never that 'respectable' beyond readers who believed propaganda. And if you are 'yawning' perhaps you should



You still didn't answer my question (not that you are under any obligation). Show us how Forbes is a hate mongering Zionist mouthpiece. Also please do post what _YOU_ consider "propaganda" published in Forbes.


----------



## Developereo

gubbi said:


> Since you consider the article biased, can you please post sources to the contrary? We would really like to know. Since you are prone to make such sweeping comments, we would like to see some credible sources for your comments, lest people start suspecting your credibility.



You want him to post an article that proves Chinese weapons were *not* involved in Mumbai?

Should we also post articles that French and German and Japanese and Brazilian weapons were not involved in Mumbai?

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## haawk

^^^^^^^
can you quote one respectable journal ,,,,,,which according to you ,gives nothing but the truth?


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## BSF

See this is how Pakistani mentality goes.....
If they are writing bad about Pakistan...they are zionist who are hell bent to destroy Pakistan.be it Forbes, NYT, Times, Dawn Geo, etc


If they are writing bad about India....no matter who the author is or no matter who is publishing ..be in Rupee news...or even a blog.... he is good.

Can't really comment about the Chinese.

They can't really write a paragraph here in this forum which is comprehensible...let alone reading it.

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## Developereo

BSF said:


> See this is how Pakistani mentality goes.....
> If they are writing bad about Pakistan...they are zionist who are hell bent to destroy Pakistan.be it Forbes, NYT, Times, Dawn Geo, etc
> 
> 
> If they are writing bad about India....no matter who the author is or no matter who is publishing ..be in Rupee news...or even a blog.... he is good.
> 
> Can't really comment about the Chinese.
> 
> They can't really write a paragraph here in this forum which is comprehensible...let alone reading it.



Where did I form a value judgement?

I distrust all media when it comes to controversial subjects. Honest, objective journalism is all but extinct in all media.


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## Su 30mki

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> Forbes was never that 'respectable' beyond readers who believed propaganda. And if you are 'yawning' perhaps you should



It is more credible then China and Pak govt Controlled media, the things they told to their citizens...


----------



## Su 30mki

Developereo said:


> Where did I form a value judgement?
> 
> I distrust all media when it comes to controversial subjects. Honest, objective journalism is all but extinct in all media.



No you cant they only tell news , you have to see all the parameters and analysis that. 

Like when Pak Govt saying we are protesting US when they fire missile in PAK territory , but in secret they allowed US , this is well knows in public they made hue and Cry on this. Many things if you see ..... you have made their own judgment.


----------



## Su 30mki

Developereo said:


> Why would I hold it against Forbes to not include a Pakistani billionaire? If we don't have a billionaire, we don't have one. What has Forbes got to do with it?
> 
> The credibility of the entire Zionist-dominated Western media is suspect when it comes to geopolitical issues, especially in the Middle East and adjacent areas.
> 
> Given that India is the new Western stooge in Asia to counter China's growing influence, any article about China-India relations should be taken with a grain of salt.



Well this what you think , and you want to see and hear think which fits in your own perception of fantasy, we can provide number of articles, topics which if suited you its trusted , if not then its biased. 

India is Democratic country , it cant become stogies unlike PAK which is run by only PAK Army, one man show or nor like china which also run by one man and not like saudia Arabia which is also run by one man.


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## Developereo

Su 30mki said:


> It is more credible then China and Pak govt Controlled media, the things they told to their citizens...



Are you honestly suggesting that other governments, including India, do not engage in propaganda and disinformation campaigns?

Indian media is some of the most jingoistic media I have ever seen.

This has already been discussed in another thread but Pakistani media at least publishes some pro-India views. Indian media, on the other hand, is 100% anti-Pakistan -- in the most petty, juvenile way imaginable.


----------



## Developereo

Su 30mki said:


> Well this what you think , and you want to see and hear think which fits in your own perception of fantasy, we can provide number of articles, topics which if suited you its trusted , if not then its biased.
> 
> India is Democratic country , it cant become stogies



Speaking of fantasies...


----------



## Developereo

Su 30mki said:


> No you cant they only tell news , you have to see all the parameters and analysis that.
> 
> Like when Pak Govt saying we are protesting US when they fire missile in PAK territory , but in secret they allowed US , this is well knows in public they made hue and Cry on this. Many things if you see ..... you have made their own judgment.



Yup. All the facts should be reported.

Like how India funded and supported LTTE in Sri Lanka.
How RAW was involved in 1971 and now in Balochistan and FATA.
How the Israelis had to bail out the Indian army who were getting their a** kicked in Kargil.

Full knowledge is good for everyone.


----------



## blueoval79

I think the Thread starter opened a Pandora box here ...the title of the thread seems flawed....

The ideal title should have been...*"Chinese made Weapons being used in anti India activity"* as the article in initial post states the same.....

By the way...Hand grenades from some other country were also found being used in 26/11 Mumbai attack.....Finland or Ireland I guess....


----------



## BSF

> Yup. All the facts should be reported.
> 
> Like how India funded and supported LTTE in Sri Lanka.
> How RAW was involved in 1971 and now in Balochistan and FATA.
> How the Israelis had to bail out the Indian army who were getting their a** kicked in Kargil.
> 
> Full knowledge is good for everyone


Ya sure..why not...
Do provide proof of RAW supporting the militants from FATA and Balochistan and please do not rant away like Zaid Hamid. 

Proof from a credible source,

Also include the video where the Pakistani army surrenders and takes its soldiers bodies.

While you are at it please include the reports by NYT which said that Pakistani nuclear tests had failed and that they had to call in the Chinese to save their butt.

As you have amply put it
*Full knowledge is good for everyone*


----------



## pakomar

let the world know in advance how many other countries involved in Mumbai attacks.

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## Developereo

BSF said:


> Ya sure..why not...
> Do provide proof of RAW supporting the militants from FATA and Balochistan and please do not rant away like Zaid Hamid.



Singh was provided proof in Egypt but, of course, he will deny it.
Not every piece of evidence can be laid out in newspapers, but I have faith in our intelligence agencies when they claim that is so.

Granted, I don't expect you to take our word for it, so we will have to leave it as is.



BSF said:


> Also include the video where the Pakistani army surrenders and takes its soldiers bodies.



Which doesn't negate the fact that Indian army could not take on Pakistan by itself. It needed Israel to hold it's hand.



BSF said:


> While you are at it please include the reports by NYT which said that Pakistani nuclear tests had failed and that they had to call in the Chinese to save their butt.



I don't doubt that Pakistan, like India, has received foreign technical assistance. I have never understood why people deny these things. Only a fool reinvents the wheel. If someone else knows something already, use their knowledge and profit from their experiences.


----------



## BSF

> Singh was provided proof in Egypt but, of course, he will deny it.
> Not every piece of evidence can be laid out in newspapers, but I have faith in our intelligence agencies when they claim that is so.
> 
> Granted, I don't expect you to take our word for it, so we will have to leave it as is.



What proof...Your own PM denied any dossier being given to India.?
You know why he said that ...it was because *you do not have any proof.*




> Which doesn't negate the fact that Indian army could not take on Pakistan by itself. It needed Israel to hold it's hand.


The war was brought to India..India did not ask for it.India was hardly prepared for it..... and like you, yourself have amply termed it
*Only a fool reinvents the wheel.*

What say ?


----------



## TsAr

what is so low about it......India has openly declared china its enemy and increasing there defense budget


----------



## Developereo

BSF said:


> The war was brought to India..India did not ask for it.India was hardly prepared for it.....



I'm sorry.
I wasn't aware that countries inform each and set up an appointment before launching into war.

Hint: It's a _war_, not a tennis match.


----------



## BSF

> I'm sorry.
> I wasn't aware that countries inform each and set up an appointment before launching into war.
> 
> Hint: It's a war, not a tennis match.



I am sorry, but it seems that you have never heard of declaration of war
Declaration of war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Countries kind of declare war on country before hand.

But I guess you guys are used to stabbing in the back.

That's how Pakistani's roll I guess


> Hint: It's a war, not a tennis match.


Its not a hide and seek match either.!!


----------



## ARSENAL6

BSF said:


> I am sorry, but it seems that you have never heard of declaration of war
> Declaration of war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Countries kind of declare war on country before hand.
> 
> But I guess you guys are used to stabbing in the back.
> 
> That's how Pakistani's roll I guess
> 
> Its not a hide and seek match either.!!



Really How about The Iraq war
Yknow all that Lies and spin that western poltician cook up to invade Iraq ?

or Israel invading Lebanon 

Its like you said "Its not a hide and seek match" and thats what they did hiding behind a lie I guess this war declaration should be thrown out of window.
_ why bring up such rubbish in the first place !_


----------



## haawk

BSF said:


> Ya sure..why not...
> Do provide proof of RAW supporting the militants from FATA and Balochistan and please do not rant away like Zaid Hamid.
> 
> Proof from a credible source,
> 
> Also include the video where the Pakistani army surrenders and takes its soldiers bodies.
> 
> While you are at it please include the reports by NYT which said that Pakistani nuclear tests had failed and that they had to call in the Chinese to save their butt.
> 
> As you have amply put it
> *Full knowledge is good for everyone*



i ve been asking them proof for a long time in each and every thread they start rantling .......
the possible replies you will get are as following

*reply:1)pakistan has already given proof to U.S. but they dont care because of their close relations with India......*.- you may ask-as to why they didnt go to the U.N with the proof and let the world know about india sponsering terrorism.......but you would not get an answer!!!!

*reply 2:there is proof but the govt does not make it public for various reasons .....*and what reason are those?---no reply ...

*reply 3:proof has been shared with india during the recent talks.....which the indian govt rejected ..........*.and the pakistani media didnt bother about the indian rejetion of receiving any proof .....they only propagate that proof was given to india and do not bother to ask their govt to clarify the indian statemant(rejection)
the pakistan govt was also silent to the rejection by india of receiving any proof

so in the end you have to assume one of these 

1) the only thing that is holding pakistan together is their obsession with india......and the govt is doing everything at hand to keep that obsession raised so that it remains integrated ......( you can find that when ever an internal turmoil shows signs in pakistan -there would be some event that would lead to raised anti-india sentiments and that the internal discontent would be forgotten in the heat of anti -india sentiments )

2) they do not have any proof.......every thing is done to raise anti -india sentiments...

3)pakistani people need proof when other world nations say that their citizens are involved in terrorism...........but they dont need proof when their govt accuses india of anything.............their political leaders suddenly become guardians of truth when they accuse india......

3) some idiots like zaid hamid spread anti india sentiments by" creating conspiracy theories" just because he is going to get publicity and also money for raising the viewership of the channel he comes in ......


so basically ...there is no proof ....just propaganda.........so dont waste your time asking these people for proof ........



p.s : to pak members ......... have you asked your govt why they are silent to the statement made by india of receiving no proof.......if you are not going to ask that question to your govt ,,,,,,there is no purpose of democracy that you claim to have and all your press people either dont have brains or they dont care .and ..they only want news that sells .....

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## haawk

pakomar said:


> let the world know in advance how many other countries involved in Mumbai attacks.



its only pakistani nationals who are involved with the amount of chinese weponry that is increasinglymavailable freely in world markets because of thier obsecession for earning money by any means ....they have no ethics.........


----------



## Spring Onion

so now we are going to see exchange of Indian dossier after dossier with China this time 



Yeh baby bring it on now i know why Kasab keep smiling when Indians are braging in the court

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## Ruag

TsAr said:


> what is so low about it......India has openly declared china its enemy and increasing there defense budget



Yeah.. what is low about it?? India stations 60,000 troops near its border with China and China responds by helping terrorists who killed over 150 innocent Indian civilians. Nothing low about it. 

As a matter of fact, it speaks volumes about the bravery of those involved. Can't fight armed soldiers, so massacre unarmed civilians.


----------



## Spring Onion

Ruag said:


> Yeah.. what is low about it?? India stations 60,000 troops near its border with China and *China responds by helping terrorists who killed over 150 innocent Indian civilians. Nothing low about it. *
> As a matter of fact, it speaks volumes about the bravery of those involved. Can't fight armed soldiers, so massacre unarmed civilians.





So when are Indians going to include China in the dossier championship???

Now the case has become more international

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## Ruag

Jana said:


> So when are Indians going to include China in the dossier championship???
> 
> Now the case has become more international



That's the difference.. for people like you it is all about conspiracy and "dossier championship". It is never about the fact that ultimately on that night hundreds of innocent women and children were killed. Some people just disgust me to the core.


----------



## SinoIndusFriendship

Ruag said:


> Yeah.. what is low about it?? India stations 60,000 troops near its border with China and China responds by helping terrorists who killed over 150 innocent Indian civilians. Nothing low about it.
> 
> As a matter of fact, it speaks volumes about the bravery of those involved. Can't fight armed soldiers, so massacre unarmed civilians.



Errr Wrong. It was the Indians who massacred and are continuing to ethnic-cleanse the "Mongoloids" NATIVE inhabitants in the NE land Bharat stole.

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## dvk1982

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> Errr Wrong. It was the Indians who massacred and are continuing to ethnic-cleanse the "Mongoloids" NATIVE inhabitants in the NE land Bharat stole.



U seem to preach friendship and then if somevbody tries take shots, u cook stories big time....
WHere the F***k india is ethnic cleansing ? in ur dreams ? don't bull-****... 
u r free to bull **** abt ur country, foreign policy of other countires and any communal voilences....
Its disgusting.. a closed economy where even press has to think twice before going against the govt, is accusing of ethinic cleansing.

Here everyone tries to be a saint as though their nations are reprersentatives of sainthoodness.

Forbes article may seem untrue but all it cud point is terrorists weapons are of china made... now its an altogether different question if China supplied them to terrorists or terrorists got hold of other sources within pakistan. China is one of the biggest arms exporters esp small arms in Asia.

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## dvk1982

Jana said:


> so now we are going to see exchange of Indian dossier after dossier with China this time
> 
> 
> 
> Yeh baby bring it on now i know why Kasab keep smiling when Indians are braging in the court



heck...I think u know a lot of things... 
Don't digress from topic....


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## blain2

Ruag said:


> India's China Problem - Forbes.com
> 
> I never knew a country such as China could scoop so low.



I never new Forbes could scoop so low to publish such comical trash. I am sure the author of the article has really balanced views about China. Gordon G. Chang is the author of *The Coming Collapse of China.*

Nice!!!

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## pmukherjee

blain2 said:


> I never new Forbes could scoop so low to publish such comical trash. I am sure the author of the article has really balanced views about China. Gordon G. Chang is the author of *The Coming Collapse of China.*
> 
> Nice!!!



Blain, What is there to be surprised? Every fragmantation grenade recovered from militants in Kashmir is Chinese made. So are the pistols (Chinese copies of Russian 7.62 mm Tokarev) and so are the rifles (AK-56). That does not imply that China is supplying these militants. But it does means that Chinese are supplying to Pak and may be not insisting on an end-user clause. Technically this guy Chang is right. But China is not to blame directly.


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## blain2

pmukherjee said:


> Blain, What is there to be surprised? Every fragmantation grenade recovered from militants in Kashmir is Chinese made. So are the pistols (Chinese copies of Russian 7.62 mm Tokarev) and so are the rifles (AK-56). That does not imply that China is supplying these militants. But it does means that Chinese are supplying to Pak and may be not insisting on an end-user clause. Technically this guy Chang is right. But China is not to blame directly.



Do you understand the arms market that is currently active in Afghanistan and Central Asia? I can go to Pakistan's northwest and buy a Russian Army AK-101 off the market or if need be, an original 12.7mm Type 77 from Chinese ordnance factories. The market is flooded with Russian and Chinese hardware. Anything can be had by anyone willing to pay. Do you think any government would be so stupid to supply some terrorists with arms from their state-run ordnance factories? 

This article is just as silly as the initial ones that came up with stories about Pakistan Ordnance Factory weapons in the hands of the culprits. Give the other sides some credit when they run undercover operations since you are all convinced about it. Nobody wants to take heat for such things by providing these militants with state manufactured weaponry, however just the way the situation in Afghanistan is, the arms market is flooded with weaponry from all over the place having been recycled from earlier supplies to the participants of the conflicts raging and continued supplies from official arms makers of the various countries. In Pakistan's northwest, the markets even have US origin weapons.

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## SparklingCrescent

hahahahahahah... halarius... hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah.... ch ch ch china??? hahahahaahahahahhahahah


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## Abasin Turi

P.I.A said:


> hahahahahahah... halarius... hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah.... ch ch ch china??? hahahahaahahahahhahahah



whats so funny in it.. they may have...! prove they didnt..!
where's my mug of coffee wala smilie...! i cant find it


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## Abasin Turi

blain2 said:


> Do you understand the arms market that is currently active in Afghanistan and Central Asia? I can go to Pakistan's northwest and buy a Russian Army AK-101 off the market or if need be, an original 12.7mm Type 77 from Chinese ordnance factories. The market is flooded with Russian and Chinese hardware. Anything can be had by anyone willing to pay. Do you think any government would be so stupid to supply some terrorists with arms from their state-run ordnance companies?
> 
> This article is just as silly as the initial ones that came up with stories about Pakistan Ordnance Factory weapons in the hands of the culprits. Give the other sides some credit when they run undercover operations since you are all convinced about it. Nobody wants to take heat for such things by providing these militants with state manufactured weaponry, however just the way the situation in Afghanistan is, the arms market is flooded with weaponry from all over the place having been recycled from earlier supplies to the participants of the conflicts raging and continued supplies from official arms makers of the various countries. In Pakistan's northwest, the markets even have US origin weapons.




wow what a flow man... i literally read it out loudly three times....  no wonder you are the moderator...


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## Merilion

blueoval79 said:


> I think the Thread starter opened a Pandora box here ...the title of the thread seems flawed....
> 
> The ideal title should have been...*"Chinese made Weapons being used in anti India activity"* as the article in initial post states the same.....
> 
> By the way...Hand grenades from some other country were also found being used in 26/11 Mumbai attack.....Finland or Ireland I guess....



Thank u blueoval. This makes a lot more sense to me.

Then the next question is why the starter used such thread title? Does he not understand english very well or is he a China-hatred person?

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## Ruag

Merilion said:


> Thank u blueoval. This makes a lot more sense to me.
> 
> Then the next question is why the starter used such thread title? Does he not understand english very well or is he a China-hatred person?





Did you guys even bother to read the article? 



> ...*the Chinese have supported Islamabad's campaign of terror against the Indian state*....
> 
> The terrorists attacking Mumbai hotels last November used Chinese equipment--the distinctively blue Type 86 grenades, manufactured by China's state-owned Norinco, *which has continually supplied* parties working with militants inside India....
> 
> The training the Chinese give to Pakistani personnel is, *with Beijing's knowledge*, leached to terrorists. Furthermore, in April and May 2006, May 2007 and August 2008, China blocked U.N. sanctions against and censure of Lashkar-e-Taiba and its front, Jammat-ud-Dawa, the organizations responsible for the horrible hotel attacks.



As a matter of fact, the title should have been "China providing weapons, training and diplomatic support to anti-India terrorists".


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## grey boy 2

Ruag; Cease Fire, just for today?

You should be Enjoying Independence day of India.

Best wishes to India.


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## Ruag

grey boy 2 said:


> You should be Enjoying Independence day of India.
> 
> Best wishes to India.



Thanks for your wishes


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## blain2

Abasin Turi said:


> wow what a flow man... i literally read it out loudly three times....  no wonder you are the moderator...



Its pretty poorly written I admit.  I just realized it after reading it again. Hopefully reading it a few times will make the reader understand what I was trying to say. Good luck!


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## Brahm0s

Friends i think china lost his mind. The article in which china's think tank said they should help terrorists to brake india into pieces. Now if there is another terrorist attack than this time blame would be on pakistan with CHINA. whole worlds view on pakistan is as 'spoiled country' but now it seems china too want to join pakistan directly. So if there is another terrorist attack than china too would be under scanner. That comment by china was so 'irresponcible'. Its like they throwing huge stones on their own foot. Am bit shocked how come such a country remark that. Small countries which dont have much power to direct war uses tactics of helping terrorists. China getting hint it cant do much about our anurachal pradesh so they now gave up and decided to walk pakistans line even when knowing what happen to pakistan.


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## aimarraul

Brahm0s said:


> Friends i think china lost his mind. The article in which china's think tank said they should help terrorists to brake india into pieces. Now if there is another terrorist attack than this time blame would be on pakistan with CHINA. whole worlds view on pakistan is as 'spoiled country' but now it seems china too want to join pakistan directly. So if there is another terrorist attack than china too would be under scanner. That comment by china was so 'irresponcible'. Its like they throwing huge stones on their own foot. Am bit shocked how come such a country remark that. Small countries which dont have much power to direct war uses tactics of helping terrorists. China getting hint it cant do much about our anurachal pradesh so they now gave up and decided to walk pakistans line even when knowing what happen to pakistan.



a normal netizen post a nice strategy about braking india into pieces in an unknown military forum
the hindustan times reported china was about to attack india in 2012

which one is more crazy?


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## applesauce

Brahm0s said:


> Friends i think china lost his mind. The article in which china's think tank said they should help terrorists to brake india into pieces. Now if there is another terrorist attack than this time blame would be on pakistan with CHINA. whole worlds view on pakistan is as 'spoiled country' but now it seems china too want to join pakistan directly. So if there is another terrorist attack than china too would be under scanner. That comment by china was so 'irresponcible'. Its like they throwing huge stones on their own foot. Am bit shocked how come such a country remark that. Small countries which dont have much power to direct war uses tactics of helping terrorists. China getting hint it cant do much about our anurachal pradesh so they now gave up and decided to walk pakistans line even when knowing what happen to pakistan.




give me just one credible source that the view of the think tank is official view of china then maybe ill listen to what u have to say, crap articles like that are produced everyday in India so dont tie ur panties up in a bunch over it

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## BSF

> give me just one credible source that the view of the think tank is official view of china then maybe ill listen to what u have to say, crap articles like that are produced everyday in India so dont tie ur panties up in a bunch over it



Before I give you a credible source ..please tell me what all sources you think is credible.
Times
BBC
CNN
Times of India

Name a credible source which you are willing to trust and I will give you your article. I am saying this because every source I give you dismiss it as Zionist Hindu article or some CIA/RAW/MOSSAD conspiracy.


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## aimarraul

BSF said:


> Before I give you a credible source ..please tell me what all sources you think is credible.
> Times
> BBC
> CNN
> Times of India
> 
> Name a credible source which you are willing to trust and I will give you your article. I am saying this because every source I give you dismiss it as Zionist Hindu article or some CIA/RAW/MOSSAD conspiracy.



chinese credible source ,not from an unknown chinese website,you idiot,like the report in hindustan times "china will attack india in 2012"

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## SinoIndusFriendship

BSF said:


> Before I give you a credible source ..please tell me what all sources you think is credible.
> Times
> BBC
> CNN
> Times of India
> 
> Name a credible source which you are willing to trust and I will give you your article. I am saying this because every source I give you dismiss it as Zionist Hindu article or some CIA/RAW/MOSSAD conspiracy.




Times -- zionist owned propaganda mouthpiece 
BBC -- zionist controlled propaganda mouthpiece 
CNN -- zionist owned propaganda mouthpiece 
Times of India -- Hindu fanatics propaganda mouthpiece


Seriously, get a life man! Trying to "link" China to your False Flag Mumbai terror attack (which RSS was complicit in) is going over-board. Remember the hold-up in Chabad House with WHITE terrorists. Remember the lone-gunman (with Hindu red bracelet) who looks like from Nepal, what happen to the rest of them.

Also the foreigners who checked in at the Hotel (without going through security scanning) with tons of heavy duty baggage (enough for food, weapons, amunitions, bombs). How about the special forces commander who after the ordeal, on returning home was MURDERED?! 

This is clearly a FALSE FLAG OPERATION, so stop blaming Pakistan & China. Better investigate the real perpetrators, and you can start by interviewing the remaining (alive) Special Forces who was gun-fighting the terrorists in the Hotel & Chabad House for hours straight. You know, these "foreign white" terrorists could easily "slipped out" of the Hotel/Chabad House disguised as 'regular tourists' to return to Israel.

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## dvk1982

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> Times -- zionist owned propaganda mouthpiece
> BBC -- zionist controlled propaganda mouthpiece
> CNN -- zionist owned propaganda mouthpiece
> Times of India -- Hindu fanatics propaganda mouthpiece
> 
> 
> Seriously, get a life man! Trying to "link" China to your False Flag Mumbai terror attack (which RSS was complicit in) is going over-board. Remember the hold-up in Chabad House with WHITE terrorists. Remember the lone-gunman (with Hindu red bracelet) who looks like from Nepal, what happen to the rest of them.
> 
> :



whatever respect I had when i read some of ur preachings abt friendship comes to an end with this post.... 
I thought it was just Pakis wh have their mind tuned to hate india buy this "Hindu red bracelet" thing as a viable argument let alone how well one can justify it....

I will ask 2 simple questions, which aren't tough but just think abt it... u dont need to even reply....

1) If this ia such a preplanned covert operation of RSS and the likes why the heck will they leave "The red hindu band on his hand"... even staunch followers can remove the band and respectfully discharge it (i am not going to explain it how here ), Hindus dont believe that if band is removed .. they r doomed or CAN'T BREATH AIR !!! 
2) Is it unlikely or Impossible for a non-hindu to wear a red band just to give these conpiracy theorists a blast of oxygen ? - Now again sbdy here will say true muslims won't do that or sbdy on jihad wont do that !!! again do u know how true r they or what the crap....

Even if RSS and the likes planned it.. they wud make it believe that these terrorists speak like one, appear like one and dress like one... These r not mongoloids or whites..

And where the heck do u see a similarity between kasab and his team to Nepalese !!! this is new now

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## aimarraul

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> Times -- zionist owned propaganda mouthpiece
> BBC -- zionist controlled propaganda mouthpiece
> CNN -- zionist owned propaganda mouthpiece
> Times of India -- Hindu fanatics propaganda mouthpiece
> 
> 
> Seriously, get a life man! Trying to "link" China to your False Flag Mumbai terror attack (which RSS was complicit in) is going over-board. Remember the hold-up in Chabad House with WHITE terrorists. Remember the lone-gunman (with Hindu red bracelet) who looks like from Nepal, what happen to the rest of them.
> 
> Also the foreigners who checked in at the Hotel (without going through security scanning) with tons of heavy duty baggage (enough for food, weapons, amunitions, bombs). How about the special forces commander who after the ordeal, on returning home was MURDERED?!
> 
> This is clearly a FALSE FLAG OPERATION, so stop blaming Pakistan & China. Better investigate the real perpetrators, and you can start by interviewing the remaining (alive) Special Forces who was gun-fighting the terrorists in the Hotel & Chabad House for hours straight. You know, these "foreign white" terrorists could easily "slipped out" of the Hotel/Chabad House disguised as 'regular tourists' to return to Israel.



you know what?similar story like mumbai attack just happened the other day,400 cops kill lone bandit after 50-hour siege


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## BSF

> chinese credible source ,not from an unknown chinese website,you idiot,like the report in hindustan times "china will attack india in 2012"



I don't read or speak Chinese just as you are incapable of writing a single paragraph of English which is comprehensible.

You are in a stage of denial, Are trying to imply that only Chinese sources are credible?

You got serious problems dude.





> Times -- zionist owned propaganda mouthpiece
> BBC -- zionist controlled propaganda mouthpiece
> CNN -- zionist owned propaganda mouthpiece
> Times of India -- Hindu fanatics propaganda mouthpiece
> 
> 
> Seriously, get a life man! Trying to "link" China to your False Flag Mumbai terror attack (which RSS was complicit in) is going over-board. Remember the hold-up in Chabad House with WHITE terrorists. Remember the lone-gunman (with Hindu red bracelet) who looks like from Nepal, what happen to the rest of them.
> 
> Also the foreigners who checked in at the Hotel (without going through security scanning) with tons of heavy duty baggage (enough for food, weapons, amunitions, bombs). How about the special forces commander who after the ordeal, on returning home was MURDERED?!
> 
> This is clearly a FALSE FLAG OPERATION, so stop blaming Pakistan & China. Better investigate the real perpetrators, and you can start by interviewing the remaining (alive) Special Forces who was gun-fighting the terrorists in the Hotel & Chabad House for hours straight. You know, these "foreign white" terrorists could easily "slipped out" of the Hotel/Chabad House disguised as 'regular tourists' to return to Israel.



Yawn!!!!
I asked you for a source which you thought ...according to your so called standards, was credible...Yawn!!!
But apparently your poor English comprehension skills have let you down and you have ended up making a fool of your self.

Stop trolling around and get a life !


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## aimarraul

BSF said:


> I don't read or speak Chinese just as you are incapable of writing a single paragraph of English which is comprehensible.
> 
> You are in a stage of denial, Are trying to imply that only Chinese sources are credible?
> 
> You got serious problems dude.



those well-known websites all have the english page,why the hell am i denying,i said it's great strategy, what is india gonna do even if it's china's strategy? crying for Uncle Sam's help?you got what you deserved for supporting tibetan separatists in the last 50 years


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## pmukherjee

BSF said:


> I don't read or speak Chinese just as you are incapable of writing a single paragraph of English which is comprehensible.
> 
> You are in a stage of denial, Are trying to imply that only Chinese sources are credible?



BSF what amazes me is the cheek these guys have, they do all kinds of non sense and when criticised, any thing not to their liking is either Zionist or Imperialist or Fascist or Extremist Hindu or just Falun Gong or the guy lives in Taiwan (and so he is crap). I mean, can you beat it? However when it comes to bashing India, any shitty source is authentic.


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## aimarraul

pmukherjee said:


> BSF what amazes me is the cheek these guys have, they do all kinds of non sense and when criticised, any thing not to their liking is either Zionist or Imperialist or Fascist or Extremist Hindu or just Falun Gong or the guy lives in Taiwan (and so he is crap). I mean, can you beat it? However when it comes to bashing India, any shitty source is authentic.



or ULFA or PWG or NDFB or KLO or BKI or NLFT


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## BSF

> those well-known websites all have the english page,why the hell am i denying,i said it's great strategy, what is india gonna do even if it's china's strategy? crying for Uncle Sam's help?you got what you deserved for supporting tibetan separatists in the last 50 years



Did you even read what I wrote?


> BSF what amazes me is the cheek these guys have, they do all kinds of non sense and when criticised, any thing not to their liking is either Zionist or Imperialist or Fascist or Extremist Hindu or just Falun Gong or the guy lives in Taiwan (and so he is crap). I mean, can you beat it? However when it comes to bashing India, any shitty source is authentic.



Well, when I talk about Muslim oppression in XingJang province or July 4th revolution,Chinese execution buses, Chinese democracy, green dam ....you must see the Chinese then.
Cat gets their tongue then.

Atleast Pakistan is better in terms of democracy, freedom of press and freedom of religion when compared to China.


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## aimarraul

why is the biggest "democracy" country suppressing ULFA , PWG ,NDFB ,KLO , BKI and NLFT everyday,free them ,india

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## Spring Onion

Ruag said:


> That's the difference.. for people like you it is all about conspiracy and "dossier championship". It is never about the fact that ultimately on that night hundreds of innocent women and children were killed. Some people just disgust me to the core.



correct the figure. its NOT * HUNDREDS*

Above all the word conspiracy Indian' and some of our neo-liberals' favourit. They just shun any anaysis and facts by terming it conspiracy theory if it is against them.

Now you tell me you Indians have outrightly bought this article and are convinced that China has provided arms to Mumbai attackers.

So now when your Indian government will contact interpol or even China in this regard.

I am seriously waiting for and Indian dossier to be sent to China.

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## Ruag

aimarraul said:


> why is the biggest "democracy" country suppressing ULFA , PWG ,NDFB ,KLO , BKI and NLFT everyday,free them ,india



Learn the meaning of democracy first. 

You know why is India suppressing these organizations? Because the aims of these organizations are not shared by the majority of people living in the related areas. If they were, they would not be carrying out terrorist attacks killing those very people whose freedom they claim to be fighting for.


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## Ruag

Jana said:


> correct the figure. its NOT * HUNDREDS*
> 
> Above all the word conspiracy Indian' and some of our neo-liberals' favourit. They just shun any anaysis and facts by terming it conspiracy theory if it is against them.



Hmm.. for people like you.. no matter how much evidence is put forward, all terrorist activities are a conspiracy by "evil India". The mullahs armed with AK-47s are angels sent from above. 



> Now you tell me you Indians have outrightly bought this article and are convinced that China has provided arms to Mumbai attackers.
> 
> So now when your Indian government will contact interpol or even China in this regard.
> 
> I am seriously waiting for and Indian dossier to be sent to China.



Dude.. we always knew about China's true intentions - forget the Taliban mullahs in Pakistan, it has extensively supported Maosits and Naxalites too. But like Pakistanis, they continue to live in denial and avoid from taking any action against these terrorists - 

China refuses India's request to declare Masood Azhar a terrorist - India - NEWS - The Times of India

It is pretty obvious by now, dossiers are useless. The Pakistanis and the Chinese will always find excuses.

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## Ruag

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> with Hindu red bracelet



I didn't bother to read the rest of the comment, but this particular sentence caught my attention.

I read somewhere that Kasab was wearing USB wristbands on both his wrists - one black and other orange/yellow.

http://www.twf.org/News/Y2008/1127-Mumbai.jpg

And the fact that the width of both these wristbands is the same adds value to the above statement.


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## Developereo

Folks,

Don't bother. Just for fun, try browsing Indian mainstream media some time. It is the most childishly sycophantic and jingoistic media I have ever seen. In particular, the anti-Pakistan vitriole is so petty and childish, it is downright amateurish. Although they will deny it vehemently, the fact is that most Indians are obsessed with Pakistan, because their media is. 

Pakistani media is often critical of Pakistan and favorable to Indian views, but Indian media is completely monolithic when it comes to national security. It parrots RAW propaganda verbatim without question. And the sad part is that most Indians are so utterly brainwashed from birth, they have lost the critical capacity for skepticism on this subject. They truly believe that all their internal dissent is caused by Pakistan. And they believe that RAW has not engaged in subversive activities in their neighbors' affairs.

As stated earlier, the Zionist-dominated Western media regurgitates the Indian propaganda verbatim because it suits their interests at this point, viz. combating Chinese and Islamic influence.

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## Merilion

Ruag said:


> Did you guys even bother to read the article?



ok, I have to admit that I didn't read the article. As matter of fact I didn't bother to read it the moment I saw Gordon Chang's name was mentioned. It's totally waste of my time. I guess this is pretty much the same when u guys saw news from rupee(spell?) news? I don't know what's rupee news but I guess u indian regard it as India bashing news agency.
Since I didn't bother to read anything from GC I choose to believe what an Indian member's(blueoval) comment.
Now I still don't bother to read that article, sorry, but rather than reading it I choose to believe u and therefore I take back what I said in my previous post.



> As a matter of fact, the title should have been "China providing weapons, training and diplomatic support to anti-India terrorists".




So please tell me does GoI take that article seriously? What is GoI going to do with it? 
If it's true China to directly supply weapons even training to Mumbai terrorists to sabo Inida, wouldn't this shocking news should come from an India media first? And it would be a BIG shame for GoI to keep quiet.

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## Merilion

Developereo said:


> Folks,
> 
> Don't bother. Just for fun, try browsing Indian mainstream media some time. It is the most childishly sycophantic and jingoistic media I have ever seen. In particular, the anti-Pakistan vitriole is so petty and childish, it is downright amateurish. Although they will deny it vehemently, the fact is that most Indians are obsessed with Pakistan, because their media is.
> 
> Pakistani media is often critical of Pakistan and favorable to Indian views, but Indian media is completely monolithic when it comes to national security. It parrots RAW propaganda verbatim without question. And the sad part is that most Indians are so utterly brainwashed from birth, they have lost the critical capacity for skepticism on this subject. They truly believe that all their internal dissent is caused by Pakistan. And they believe that RAW has not engaged in subversive activities in their neighbors' affairs.



No need to browsing any Indian mainstream media. Many of Indian members of this forum already proved what u said is sadly fact.
Oh, did I mention BR before? hahaha, it's so funny to read the posts there. Somebody even has time to write a "Military Scenarios" and a lot of ppl enjoying reading that piece of BS. You won't find anything like that in any chinese forum. And a lot of Indian keep mentioning India is the second fastest growing country in the world in a China-bashing thread as if China is not the No.1...I think I am the only chinese to talk China No.1 kinda stuff in this forum but this is really not my intention...hahaha

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## BSF

> Folks,
> 
> Don't bother. Just for fun, try browsing Indian mainstream media some time. It is the most childishly sycophantic and jingoistic media I have ever seen. In particular, the anti-Pakistan vitriole is so petty and childish, it is downright amateurish. Although they will deny it vehemently, the fact is that most Indians are obsessed with Pakistan, because their media is.


As amateurish as Zaid Hamid who goes in Pakistani TV and says Ajmal Kasab is Amar Singh?

Let me know.


> Pakistani media is often critical of Pakistan and favorable to Indian views, but Indian media is completely monolithic when it comes to national security. It parrots RAW propaganda verbatim without question. And the sad part is that most Indians are so utterly brainwashed from birth, they have lost the critical capacity for skepticism on this subject. They truly believe that all their internal dissent is caused by Pakistan. And they believe that RAW has not engaged in subversive activities in their neighbors' affairs.



You wanted to show me proof of Raw activities in Baloch and FATA.
Where is the proof now.? There is no proof...but your main stream media keeps parroting on how RAW is fermenting trouble in Baloch and FATA

Who is the Parrot now? World media or Pakistani media?

Let me know.




> As stated earlier, the Zionist-dominated Western media regurgitates the Indian propaganda verbatim because it suits their interests at this point, viz. combating Chinese and Islamic influence.



State of denial.

Name the source of media you trust and I will give you an article from it. Now let me guess.. the whole media is controlled by Zionist, CIA/RAW/Mossad.

Yawn!! 

A few posts ago I showed you an article on declaration of war.

Care to reply to that first?



> No need to browsing any Indian mainstream media. Many of Indian members of this forum already proved what u said is sadly fact.
> Oh, did I mention BR before? hahaha, it's so funny to read the posts there. Somebody even has time to write a "Military Scenarios" and a lot of ppl enjoying reading that piece of BS. You won't find anything like that in any chinese forum. And a lot of Indian keep mentioning India is the second fastest growing country in the world in a China-bashing thread as if China is not the No.1...I think I am the only chinese to talk China No.1 kinda stuff in this forum but this is really not my intention...hahaha



What does your Chinese media have to say about July 4th and the recent killing of poor ughir Muslims....

Come back with an answer and links

If you don't have one....please do not troll with your incomprehensible English.


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## Brahm0s

applesauce said:


> give me just one credible source that the view of the think tank is official view of china then maybe ill listen to what u have to say, crap articles like that are produced everyday in India so dont tie ur panties up in a bunch over it



Hi friend. i didn't know in a country like china where even a women dont have rights to produce babies more than 1 (one child polisy by communist china goverment) can have 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH' lol. How come someone writes so 'offensive article' and gets away with it??? Why china 'MUM'? Do chinese think tank have freedom to say anything about any country so offensive? Let alone media. Anyway the article by so called chinese communist goverment think tank was stupid childish type that it already dig grave for china in future. Anything would happen in india will bring china under scanner and yep it will expose china internationaly just like it exposed pakistan in whole world. Messing inside india (by the help of terrorists) will only give china bad name around the world and soon whenever chinese go abroad all people would look at them suspicious eyes just like one top bollywood actor (Sharukh Khan) detained at newyork airport because he had 'KHAN' surname and he was muslim. Most muslims are alot good people and caring but few muslims gave muslim community bad name by turning into terrorist and supporting terrorists. Same way china will end up if china dares to mess inside india by helping terrorists. China aint no 'little country' so china should act like responcible country. They been childish now and its alot sad to see that.


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## Developereo

BSF said:


> As amateurish as Zaid Hamid who goes in Pakistani TV and says Ajmal Kasab is Amar Singh?
> 
> Let me know.



I don't believe everything ZH says. In fact, most Pakistanis regard him as more of an entertainer than a political analyst. He is the Pakistani equivalent of Fox News.

Do you really think a majority of Pakistanis believe India is about to break up?



BSF said:


> You wanted to show me proof of Raw activities in Baloch and FATA.
> Where is the proof now.? There is no proof...but your main stream media keeps parroting on how RAW is fermenting trouble in Baloch and FATA



There is supposedly documentary evidence including photos and Indian weapons recovered from insurgents, but I agree the GOP should make the evidence public.



BSF said:


> Who is the Parrot now? World media or Pakistani media?
> 
> Let me know.
> Name the source of media you trust and I will give you an article from it. Now let me guess.. the whole media is controlled by Zionist, CIA/RAW/Mossad.



World media is the parrot. At least Pakistani media prints dissenting views.

I don't trust any media, Western, Indian or Pakistani, because they have all given up their claim to objectivity.

The Western media gets it's talking points from the American media, and the mainstream American media is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT Zionist-dominated.

The CIA is not Zionist; it's aim is to protect American interests. Zionists, on the other hand, put Israeli interests above American interests.



BSF said:


> A few posts ago I showed you an article on declaration of war.
> 
> Care to reply to that first?



Technically, the Pakistani offensive in Kargil was not a full-out war, but a surgical incursion. It would be India that would declare war to repel the incursion.

In any case, the point remains that the Indian army was unable to match the Pakistani army and needed Israel's help.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

Brahm0s said:


> Hi friend. i didn't know in a country like china where even a women dont have rights to produce babies more than 1 (one child polisy by communist china goverment) can have 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH' lol. How come someone writes so 'offensive article' and gets away with it??? Why china 'MUM'? Do chinese think tank have freedom to say anything about any country so offensive? Let alone media. Anyway the article by so called chinese communist goverment think tank was stupid childish type that it already dig grave for china in future. Anything would happen in india will bring china under scanner and yep it will expose china internationaly just like it exposed pakistan in whole world. Messing inside india (by the help of terrorists) will only give china bad name around the world and soon whenever chinese go abroad all people would look at them suspicious eyes just like one top bollywood actor (Sharukh Khan) detained at newyork airport because he had 'KHAN' surname and he was muslim. Most muslims are alot good people and caring but few muslims gave muslim community bad name by turning into terrorist and supporting terrorists. Same way china will end up if china dares to mess inside india by helping terrorists. China aint no 'little country' so china should act like responcible country. They been childish now and its alot sad to see that.



RSS propaganda again. It's a misnomer to call it a "one-child policy", since on average couples have 2 children. If you have more than one you get taxed around 2,000 dollars which is a lot for peasants. And this rule is not enforced on minorities (Rebiya Kadeer gave birth to 11 children), nor is it rigid in the country side where extra helping hands are useful. 

This rule was put in place a few decades ago to reign in on the spiralling population growth, which threatens not only the nation but its neighbors and the entire world. Take Nigeria & India, which are the leaders in illegal immigrants who are not confined to the regional area but infiltrate nations half-way across the globe. 

Most Chinese like to have large families, this is cultural. I don't like to be told how many babies I can have either (here I'm glad I'm not PRC citizen) either. This like many other issues is about personal self-control (benefiting society).  Life is tough, the other choice is to let mother nature take care of over-population. To see 2 of your 5 children die of hunger & disease before the age of five is not pleasant experience.....

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## sensenreason

RSS propaganda again....????? Personally, even if it was one child policy, I would be okay with it. Rumour has it that the flu's floating around the world are not incidental but an attempt that population control.Ofcourse, they have failed.So have all others. As control requires economic prosperity...a chicken and egg analogy.


Interestingly...China is blocking branding 'Masood Azhar' as a terrorist.. ?


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## BSF

> I don't believe everything ZH says. In fact, most Pakistanis regard him as more of an entertainer than a political analyst. He is the Pakistani equivalent of Fox News


Okay, well said.



> Do you really think a majority of Pakistanis believe India is about to break up?


I sure hope not. That would be too outlandish... even for a dream.



> Folks,
> 
> Don't bother. Just for fun, try browsing Indian mainstream media some time. It is the most childishly sycophantic and jingoistic media I have ever seen. In particular, the anti-Pakistan vitriole is so petty and childish, it is downright amateurish. Although they will deny it vehemently, the fact is that most Indians are obsessed with Pakistan, because their media is.



Now if you just prove the point you made here with any of the following INDIAN news sources

CNN IBN
Times Now
Hindustan Times

I will stand corrected if you can do it.


> World media is the parrot.



There is nothing really I can say to this now....

Denial is the most predictable of all human responses - The Matrix 2

Your statement reminds me of the movie Matrix or The Trumen show where every thing is a setup.




> At least Pakistani media prints dissenting views.


So does the Indian media.

They are after Modi's life for mismanagement of Godhra.

They are the one's launching Sting operations against Indian MP's and MLA, exposing the failures of Indian Army,Navy and Airforce.


> Technically, the Pakistani offensive in Kargil was not a full-out war, but a surgical incursion. It would be India that would declare war to repel the incursion.



So it was not a war...is that what you are saying?
O wait... India declared war on Pakistan..is that what you are saying...?

Did India cross the LOC during the war/surgical incursion as you put it?


Did India declare war on Pakistan during the Kargil conflict ?

NO!

Stop feeding the Chinese trolls people!


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## Spring Onion

Brahm0s said:


> Hi friend. i didn't know in a country like china where even a women dont have rights to produce babies more than 1 (one child polisy by communist china goverment) can have 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH' lol. How come someone writes so 'offensive article' and gets away with it??? Why china 'MUM'? Do *chinese think tank* have freedom to say anything about any country so offensive?




i would just reply to think tank part rest your comment about one child policy of China is mere trolling.


*Chinese website denies being govt think-tank*

BEIJING: *The Chinese website, which published the controversial article about splitting India into 20-30 parts, today claimed it did not represent 
the views of any government think-tank. The sites owner-editor said he ran the Internet publication on his own without any government backing. *
Kang Lingyi, the founding editor of the ÖÐ¹úÕ½ÂÔÍø_´ÓÓ°ÏìÖÐ¹ú¿ªÊ¼£¬¸Ä±äÊÀ½ç, said the article was actually a web posting by an anonymous Internet user. He did not think it necessary to verify the identity and credential of the author before publishing the article, Kang said. 

"It is simply a piece written by an ordinary netizen. The Indian scholar said it is a study by a government-run think-tank. This is ridiculous," Kang told TNN in an exclusive interview. The website today published a clafirication saying it represented no government body. Kang said he has also sent a fax with the clarification to the Indian embassy. 

D S Rajan, the head of Chennai Centre for Chinese Studies, who circulated an English translation of the article, wrote that the Chinese article, was published in ÖÐ¹úÕ½ÂÔÍø_´ÓÓ°ÏìÖÐ¹ú¿ªÊ¼£¬¸Ä±äÊÀ½ç. "The authoritative host site is located in Beijing and is the new edition of one, which so far represented the China International Institute for Strategic Studies (www.chinaiiss.org)," he wrote. Rajan's views were interpreted in the Indian media to mean that the two sites were linked to each other. 

But Kang claimed he runs a separate research body, which has a similar name in Chinese as the CIISS, but has no relationship with the official think-tank. 

Rajan told TNN the site, which published the article, must be enjoying some sort of government backing. 

"This website must have some sort of official blessing. Otherwise, it would not be possible for it to publish such an article," he said. 

Kang confirmed he has not been questioned by the foreign ministry or the government censors for publishing the article on August 8. Chinese censors routinely block Internet sites and investigate their writers and editors whenever an article is not liked by the government. This has not happened in the case of Kangs since the piece was published on August 8. Beijing's silence even after Indian foreign ministry reacted to the article is significant. 

The article caused a lot of surprise among Chinese foreign policy experts as well. 

"No responsible scholar in China will say such things," Wang Chungui, vice president of the Association of Foreign Diplomats of China, told this reporter. Zhou Gang, a former Chinese ambassador to India and a special consultant to the ministry of foreign affairs in Beijing, reacted with surprise. 

"This is nonsense. This is not the thinking in China," Zhou said when told about the content of the article. 
*
"Everyone has a right to publish his post on website. We cannot possibly get to know the details of each netizen," Kang said. He said the article, which talked about China involving Pakistan and Bangladesh in a grand plan to split up India, was first circulated over the Internet in 2006.* 

*The article has since been refined by different Internet users and it now sounds like a study by a research organization instead of being the opinion of an individual, Kang said. Phrases like "I think" and "I believe" that appeared in the 2006 article has been removed in the new version that he published, he said.* 

*Kang said he was running his website, ÖÐ¹úÕ½ÂÔÍø_´ÓÓ°ÏìÖÐ¹ú¿ªÊ¼£¬¸Ä±äÊÀ½ç without any government funding since 2002. "It is a coincidence that the Chinese name of my website is similar to the official think-tank, the China International Institute for Strategic Studies. He recently changed the English name of his organization to China Center for International and Strategic Studies to avoid confusion, Kang said. 

His website is registered with the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology and bears the registration number ICP09053180, he said. *

Chinese website denies being govt think-tank - China - World - NEWS - The Times of India


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## Developereo

BSF said:


> So does the Indian media.
> 
> They are after Modi's life for mismanagement of Godhra.
> 
> They are the one's launching Sting operations against Indian MP's and MLA, exposing the failures of Indian Army,Navy and Airforce.



I was talking about dissenting views regarding Pakistan. Of course, both countries have dissenting views on internal matters.



BSF said:


> So it was not a war...is that what you are saying?
> O wait... India declared war on Pakistan..is that what you are saying...?



No. I am saying that if India deemed the incursion to be sufficient provocation, it could have declared war on Pakistan.

Instead, both sides handled the situation like a border skirmish, not an all out war.

Once again, you deviate from the point that, regardless of what you call it, the Indian army was unable to handle the situation by itself. It had to call in the Israelis.


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## sensenreason

"Everyone has a right to publish his post on website. We cannot possibly get to know the details of each netizen," Kang said. He said the article, which talked about China involving Pakistan and Bangladesh in a grand plan to split up India, was first circulated over the Internet in 2006. 

The article has since been refined by different Internet users and it now sounds like a study by a research organization instead of being the opinion of an individual, Kang said. Phrases like "I think" and "I believe" that appeared in the 2006 article has been removed in the new version that he published, he said. 

Kang said he was running his website, &#214;&#208;&#185;&#250;&#213;&#189;&#194;&#212;&#205;&#248;_&#180;&#211;&#211;&#176;&#207;&#236;&#214;&#208;&#185;&#250;&#191;&#170;&#202;&#188;&#163;&#172;&#184;&#196;&#177;&#228;&#202;&#192;&#189;&#231; without any government funding since 2002. "It is a coincidence that the Chinese name of my website is similar to the official think-tank, the China International Institute for Strategic Studies. He recently changed the English name of his organization to China Center for International and Strategic Studies to avoid confusion, Kang said. 

His website is registered with the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology and bears the registration number ICP09053180, he said. "
*

China has extensive firewalls and scrutiny in place to divert, filter internet traffic...Anyhow, even if Chinese clarifications are true..India has to plan as if the article reflects China policy option.

To accept the explanation and believe everything the chinese say would be in my eyes strategic lethargy.Im unable to understand,if China is making such plans...why does it upset Pakistani members?............oh...please dont point me to RSS propaganda/Indian media propaganda...we got our &*^&#37; kicked in '62...we cannot afford to ignore any information from China !*

Note: A Russian scientist has claimed that US will implode and get divided into six parts before July 2010....No one in Russia denied this...


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## SinoIndusFriendship

sensenreason said:


> "Everyone has a right to publish his post on website. We cannot possibly get to know the details of each netizen," Kang said. He said the article, which talked about China involving Pakistan and Bangladesh in a grand plan to split up India, was first circulated over the Internet in 2006.
> 
> The article has since been refined by different Internet users and it now sounds like a study by a research organization instead of being the opinion of an individual, Kang said. Phrases like "I think" and "I believe" that appeared in the 2006 article has been removed in the new version that he published, he said.
> 
> Kang said he was running his website, ÖÐ¹úÕ½ÂÔÍø_´ÓÓ°ÏìÖÐ¹ú¿ªÊ¼£¬¸Ä±äÊÀ½ç without any government funding since 2002. "It is a coincidence that the Chinese name of my website is similar to the official think-tank, the China International Institute for Strategic Studies. He recently changed the English name of his organization to China Center for International and Strategic Studies to avoid confusion, Kang said.
> 
> His website is registered with the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology and bears the registration number ICP09053180, he said. "
> *
> 
> China has extensive firewalls and scrutiny in place to divert, filter internet traffic...Anyhow, even if Chinese clarifications are true..India has to plan as if the article reflects China policy option.
> 
> To accept the explanation and believe everything the chinese say would be in my eyes strategic lethargy.Im unable to understand,if China is making such plans...why does it upset Pakistani members?............oh...please dont point me to RSS propaganda/Indian media propaganda...we got our &*^% kicked in '62...we cannot afford to ignore any information from China !*
> 
> Note: A Russian scientist has claimed that US will implode and get divided into six parts before July 2010....No one in Russia denied this...



Sigh.... how many times does this need to be said before you understand?

All of Asia does NOT want to see India broken up into 20-30 states because:

(a) We are not "evil" people who like to see others suffer. Furthermore, we have a sense of Asian Unity in all of us (to some degree).

(b) Broken up india will cause MASSIVE refugees, the order of magnitude of hundreds of millions. Many of whom will flood into countries around the world.

(c) India is the most important nation in South & West Asia. Weak India means weak Asia - period!

(d) Nuclear weapons will get into hands of religious fanatics, warlords or sold to overseas. This alone spells instant disaster!

So to conclude, please get it into your head that no Asian nation would want India broken up.  There will always be idiots who suggest it without contemplating the consequences, or they may say it out of anger.


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## BSF

> Chinese website denies being govt think-tank
> 
> BEIJING: The Chinese website, which published the controversial article about splitting India into 20-30 parts, today claimed it did not represent
> the views of any government think-tank. The site&#8217;s owner-editor said he ran the Internet publication on his own without any government backing.


Funny....
Coupled with the recent Indo China border tension
a poll which said Chinese viewed India as a threat 
and this... posting..... you have to be blind deaf and dumb to not see the obvious.



> (d) Nuclear weapons will get into hands of religious fanatics, warlords or sold to overseas. This alone spells instant disaster!



Then you should be worry about pakistan's nukes as of now.The whole world is.

Chinese trolls crack me up!!


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## sensenreason

Developereo said:


> Folks,
> 
> Don't bother. Just for fun, try browsing Indian mainstream media some time. It is the most childishly sycophantic and jingoistic media I have ever seen. In particular, the anti-Pakistan vitriole is so petty and childish, it is downright amateurish. Although they will deny it vehemently, the fact is that most Indians are obsessed with Pakistan, because their media is.
> 
> Pakistani media is often critical of Pakistan and favorable to Indian views, but Indian media is completely monolithic when it comes to national security. It parrots RAW propaganda verbatim without question. And the sad part is that most Indians are so utterly brainwashed from birth, they have lost the critical capacity for skepticism on this subject. They truly believe that all their internal dissent is caused by Pakistan. And they believe that RAW has not engaged in subversive activities in their neighbors' affairs.
> 
> As stated earlier, the Zionist-dominated Western media regurgitates the Indian propaganda verbatim because it suits their interests at this point, viz. combating Chinese and Islamic influence.



While I do find India's mainstream media 'uncurious'. However, so is western media apart from some alternate media outlets. Whatever, Ive read in Pakistani media is not complimentary to India; so am not sure what your point is? Some Indian analysts would tend to come across as 'emotional' rather than 'rational' however to paint Indians and Indian media in the same brush is plain bias.

How is your belief that RAW has engaged in subversive activities in Pakistan and other countries...not a Pakistani media created belief compared to an average Indian's belief of ISI's complicity in terror in India? Are you not the victim of the similar but Pakistani created medicine that you are accusing Indians of being victims of?

In your attempt to prove Indians as gullible you seem to prove yourself as gullible as well?

Tell me one Non Pakistani and Non Chinese news source you think is reliable?


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## khabib

Brahm0s said:


> Hi friend. i didn't know in a country like china where even a women dont have rights to produce babies more than 1 (one child polisy by communist china goverment) can have 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH' lol. How come someone writes so 'offensive article' and gets away with it??? Why china 'MUM'? Do chinese think tank have freedom to say anything about any country so offensive? Let alone media. Anyway the article by so called chinese communist goverment think tank was stupid childish type that it already dig grave for china in future. Anything would happen in india will bring china under scanner and yep it will expose china internationaly just like it exposed pakistan in whole world. Messing inside india (by the help of terrorists) will only give china bad name around the world and soon whenever chinese go abroad all people would look at them suspicious eyes just like one top bollywood actor (Sharukh Khan) detained at newyork airport because he had 'KHAN' surname and he was muslim. Most muslims are alot good people and caring but few muslims gave muslim community bad name by turning into terrorist and supporting terrorists. Same way china will end up if china dares to mess inside india by helping terrorists. China aint no 'little country' so china should act like responcible country. They been childish now and its alot sad to see that.



By the way, do you know any country who has disputes with all of its neighbors. I know -india.


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## BSF

self delete


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## BSF

> By the way, do you know any country who has disputes with all of its neighbors. I know -india.



I know too...China.it has border issues with Taiwan, India & USSR



> Once again, you deviate from the point that, regardless of what you call it, the Indian army was unable to handle the situation by itself. It had to call in the Israelis.



I thought I answered the question long back.
I'll copy paste my post again


> The war was brought to India..India did not ask for it.India was hardly prepared for it..... and like you, yourself have amply termed it
> *Only a fool reinvents the wheel.*
> 
> What say ?


And hence the Israeli help.


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## haawk

khabib said:


> By the way, do you know any country who has disputes with all of its neighbors. I know -india.



he he......bangladesh also has dispute with both its neighbours

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## Spring Onion

haawk said:


> he he......bangladesh also has dispute with both its neighbours



 Indian figure of having disputes with ALL its neighbours is more than that.


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## Spitfighter

The only real disputes we have are with Pakistan and China. 

Other than that, insignificant incidents do take place from time to time, but its nothing to worry about.


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## haawk

Jana said:


> Indian figure of having disputes with ALL its neighbours is more than that.



what about pakistan?


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## Spring Onion

Spitfighter said:


> The only real disputes we have are with Pakistan and China.
> 
> Other than that, insignificant incidents do take place from time to time, but its nothing to worry about.



Well in front of Indian fake bullying indeed Bangladesh and Nepal must be insignificant but they are not.


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## dvk1982

aimarraul said:


> why is the biggest "democracy" country suppressing ULFA , PWG ,NDFB ,KLO , BKI and NLFT everyday,free them ,india



becoz u don't understand that 350-400 million people in India have voted for the govt and gave it the right to safeguard India.... which again is what demoracy is all abt... In a nation, majority gave the govt to do what they seemhelpful to them.... May be even after reading this post, u won't understand what's it ?? !!!


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## Brahm0s

khabib said:


> By the way, do you know any country who has disputes with all of its neighbors. I know -india.



Yep friend. Let me give you 'hint'. That country is in middle of afghanistan, balochistan and india (like a sandwich) to whome it had disputes. As far as i know its pakistan. Cheers.


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## Brahm0s

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> RSS propaganda again. It's a misnomer to call it a "one-child policy", since on average couples have 2 children. If you have more than one you get taxed around 2,000 dollars which is a lot for peasants. And this rule is not enforced on minorities (Rebiya Kadeer gave birth to 11 children), nor is it rigid in the country side where extra helping hands are useful.
> 
> This rule was put in place a few decades ago to reign in on the spiralling population growth, which threatens not only the nation but its neighbors and the entire world. Take Nigeria & India, which are the leaders in illegal immigrants who are not confined to the regional area but infiltrate nations half-way across the globe.
> 
> Most Chinese like to have large families, this is cultural. I don't like to be told how many babies I can have either (here I'm glad I'm not PRC citizen) either. This like many other issues is about personal self-control (benefiting society).  Life is tough, the other choice is to let mother nature take care of over-population. To see 2 of your 5 children die of hunger & disease before the age of five is not pleasant experience.....



Hi friend you are right its not pleasant experience to watch childrens die by hunger and disease. i totally agree with you but my friend would u like to tell me why taxed 2000 dollars? This is unjustice. It means only rich chinese family can have more kids while poor family wont be able to have more kids. Friend i have seen when earth quake struck china alot innocent chinese people died. i seen very old mothers crying and saying they had only 1 son (due chinese goverment) and he died and now they old to have kids. They said they dont have anyone now to take care of them and look after home. i felt alot crying when i seen that. In india is alot different. There is no 'Tax' on having more kids. Infact if anyone had not more than two kids than they get money every month for it. Thats what i call freedom. Taking 'TAX' on name of having more kids is unfare. China should reward family for having less kids. Friend one more point 'china dont care about childrens die'in due to hunger, poverty and disease. If they were really cared than they never targeted kids by poison toys and food product. China's eyes are on becoming 'super power'. To achieve that china wants to end poverty. To end poverty controlling population is must. Thats what china been doin.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

Brahm0s said:


> Hi friend you are right its not pleasant experience to watch childrens die by hunger and disease. i totally agree with you but my friend would u like to tell me why taxed 2000 dollars? This is unjustice. It means only rich chinese family can have more kids while poor family wont be able to have more kids. Friend i have seen when earth quake struck china alot innocent chinese people died. i seen very old mothers crying and saying they had only 1 son (due chinese goverment) and he died and now they old to have kids. They said they dont have anyone now to take care of them and look after home. i felt alot crying when i seen that. In india is alot different. There is no 'Tax' on having more kids. Infact if anyone had not more than two kids than they get money every month for it. Thats what i call freedom. Taking 'TAX' on name of having more kids is unfare. China should reward family for having less kids. Friend one more point 'china dont care about childrens die'in due to hunger, poverty and disease. If they were really cared than they never targeted kids by poison toys and food product. China's eyes are on becoming 'super power'. To achieve that china wants to end poverty. To end poverty controlling population is must. Thats what china been doin.



Yes, it is unfair to poor people. They should do scaled-tax, so richer get taxed appropriately.  And good luck, we are all in this together. I'll tell you the truth: On average the "1st world" versus "3rd world" standard of living is 2.3:1 only. The factor of difference from the RICHEST NATION versus POOREST NATION is only about 6:1 at most. This is what I see. Look around, there's so many homeless people in UK, US, Canada, Europe. There is no nation on earth that is "superior" either in (1) wealth, (2) technology, (3) military to everyone else.

I have family in Europe, and just like most Europeans they are arrogant. They look down on Asia, Africa, etc. Then I ask them, who do you think is better off USA or Europe? They answer USA of course! I tell them, I've been around Asia and USA and there's very small difference. You can't use phoney GDP numbers, you need to look at standard of living and happiness.

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## Brahm0s

Jana said:


> i would just reply to think tank part rest your comment about one child policy of China is mere trolling.
> 
> 
> *Chinese website denies being govt think-tank*
> 
> BEIJING: *The Chinese website, which published the controversial article about splitting India into 20-30 parts, today claimed it did not represent
> the views of any government think-tank. The site&#8217;s owner-editor said he ran the Internet publication on his own without any government backing. *
> Kang Lingyi, the founding editor of the ÖÐ¹úÕ½ÂÔÍø_´ÓÓ°ÏìÖÐ¹ú¿ªÊ¼£¬¸Ä±äÊÀ½ç, said the article was actually a web posting by an anonymous Internet user. He did not think it necessary to verify the identity and credential of the author before publishing the article, Kang said.
> 
> "It is simply a piece written by an ordinary netizen. The Indian scholar said it is a study by a government-run think-tank. This is ridiculous," Kang told TNN in an exclusive interview. The website today published a clafirication saying it represented no government body. Kang said he has also sent a fax with the clarification to the Indian embassy.
> 
> D S Rajan, the head of Chennai Centre for Chinese Studies, who circulated an English translation of the article, wrote that the Chinese article, was published in ÖÐ¹úÕ½ÂÔÍø_´ÓÓ°ÏìÖÐ¹ú¿ªÊ¼£¬¸Ä±äÊÀ½ç. "The authoritative host site is located in Beijing and is the new edition of one, which so far represented the China International Institute for Strategic Studies (www.chinaiiss.org)," he wrote. Rajan's views were interpreted in the Indian media to mean that the two sites were linked to each other.
> 
> But Kang claimed he runs a separate research body, which has a similar name in Chinese as the CIISS, but has no relationship with the official think-tank.
> 
> Rajan told TNN the site, which published the article, must be enjoying some sort of government backing.
> 
> "This website must have some sort of official blessing. Otherwise, it would not be possible for it to publish such an article," he said.
> 
> Kang confirmed he has not been questioned by the foreign ministry or the government censors for publishing the article on August 8. Chinese censors routinely block Internet sites and investigate their writers and editors whenever an article is not liked by the government. This has not happened in the case of Kang&#8217;s since the piece was published on August 8. Beijing's silence even after Indian foreign ministry reacted to the article is significant.
> 
> The article caused a lot of surprise among Chinese foreign policy experts as well.
> 
> "No responsible scholar in China will say such things," Wang Chungui, vice president of the Association of Foreign Diplomats of China, told this reporter. Zhou Gang, a former Chinese ambassador to India and a special consultant to the ministry of foreign affairs in Beijing, reacted with surprise.
> 
> "This is nonsense. This is not the thinking in China," Zhou said when told about the content of the article.
> *
> "Everyone has a right to publish his post on website. We cannot possibly get to know the details of each netizen," Kang said. He said the article, which talked about China involving Pakistan and Bangladesh in a grand plan to split up India, was first circulated over the Internet in 2006.*
> 
> *The article has since been refined by different Internet users and it now sounds like a study by a research organization instead of being the opinion of an individual, Kang said. Phrases like "I think" and "I believe" that appeared in the 2006 article has been removed in the new version that he published, he said.*
> 
> *Kang said he was running his website, ÖÐ¹úÕ½ÂÔÍø_´ÓÓ°ÏìÖÐ¹ú¿ªÊ¼£¬¸Ä±äÊÀ½ç without any government funding since 2002. "It is a coincidence that the Chinese name of my website is similar to the official think-tank, the China International Institute for Strategic Studies. He recently changed the English name of his organization to China Center for International and Strategic Studies to avoid confusion, Kang said.
> 
> His website is registered with the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology and bears the registration number ICP09053180, he said. *
> 
> Chinese website denies being govt think-tank - China - World - NEWS - The Times of India



Hi friend jana. i respect you alot. i been watching your comments from long time and i liked most of your comment because u speak whats truth. Friend whether it was article by someone that china didn't know but whats shocking is that china still 'MUM' on it. They would have searched who wrote that article or atleast told officially that it aint chinese goverment. All they said its aint chinese goverment (not officialy even when they promised india they would make a statement). China good at hinting india indirectly. Am sure india took note of it and now china would be under scanner after every major incident in india. China getting desperate my friend. They are frustated on border issue. That article came just after meeting between india and china got ended (meeting ended without solution till next time).


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## SinoIndusFriendship

Brahm0s said:


> Hi friend jana. i respect you alot. i been watching your comments from long time and i liked most of your comment because u speak whats truth. Friend whether it was article by someone that china didn't know but whats shocking is that china still 'MUM' on it. They would have searched who wrote that article or atleast told officially that it aint chinese goverment. All they said its aint chinese goverment (not officialy even when they promised india they would make a statement). China good at hinting india indirectly. Am sure india took note of it and now china would be under scanner after every major incident in india. China getting desperate my friend. They are frustated on border issue. That article came just after meeting between india and china got ended (meeting ended without solution till next time).



Thing is friend, China is not "MUM".... rather that this is gossip. I can reassure you that in China media (go to People's daily or china.org.cn) most news are: a) domestic, b) US-related, c) Japan-related, d) EU-related. I think there's even more news about Australia than about India.

That's just the thing friend, most Chinese (even overseas) don't have India on their minds.  It is not animosity, rather we don't view India as a long-term threat. You should be happy about that! Personally, I don't like public attention myself, since it tends to be negative. Keeping the low-profile is best!


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## SinoIndusFriendship

One more thing BrahmOs, Indians should be happy they have low-profile. China has high-profile, and there's LOTS of jealousy. For example, Australia newspaper defames Chinese with LIES. I'd rather have low-profile so people don't target their anger/hatred/racism at me.

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## grey boy 2

China supplied weapons to Mumbai terrorists?

So? even if it is truth, what can you do except Blah,Blah,Blah?

Let me tell you the difference between TALKS and ACTIONS!

In 1962, your PM Nehru talking sh@t about supporting Tibet,

China came over to your land , crushed you badly, teaching

you a lession you will never forget!!

And now i guess silence is golden for GOI ??

It might be cruel, sad for you, but the reality at the end of the

day, it is all about Might and Power of a nation.


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## aimarraul

Ruag said:


> Learn the meaning of democracy first.
> 
> You know why is India suppressing these organizations? Because the aims of these organizations are not shared by the majority of people living in the related areas. If they were, they would not be carrying out terrorist attacks killing those very people whose freedom they claim to be fighting for.



learn what is heathendom or separatists first.educate me on democracy when you clean up your "caste system" around india.

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## aimarraul

Brahm0s said:


> Hi friend. i didn't know in a country like china where even a women dont have rights to produce babies more than 1 (one child polisy by communist china goverment) can have 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH' lol. How come someone writes so 'offensive article' and gets away with it??? Why china 'MUM'? Do chinese think tank have freedom to say anything about any country so offensive? Let alone media. Anyway the article by so called chinese communist goverment think tank was stupid childish type that it already dig grave for china in future. Anything would happen in india will bring china under scanner and yep it will expose china internationaly just like it exposed pakistan in whole world. Messing inside india (by the help of terrorists) will only give china bad name around the world and soon whenever chinese go abroad all people would look at them suspicious eyes just like one top bollywood actor (Sharukh Khan) detained at newyork airport because he had 'KHAN' surname and he was muslim. Most muslims are alot good people and caring but few muslims gave muslim community bad name by turning into terrorist and supporting terrorists. Same way china will end up if china dares to mess inside india by helping terrorists. China aint no 'little country' so china should act like responcible country. They been childish now and its alot sad to see that.



do india have enough natural resources or money to raise 3 or 4 babies?what are you going to do when you are lack of water,food and other necessities of life,you let them die of thirst, hungry ?or you plan invasion to afford your irresponsible policy?your posts are full of BS, just a idiot keep craping

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## Mig-29

Jana said:


> Indian figure of having disputes with ALL its neighbours is more than that.



Yes we have disputes with our neighbors and we try to resolve them as well , not like some other country who go on and concede the disputed territory ( aksai chin) to someone else to gain military aid.


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## Mig-29

grey boy 2 said:


> China supplied weapons to Mumbai terrorists?
> 
> So? even if it is truth, what can you do except Blah,Blah,Blah?
> 
> Let me tell you the difference between TALKS and ACTIONS!
> 
> In 1962, your PM Nehru talking sh@t about supporting Tibet,
> 
> China came over to your land , crushed you badly, teaching
> 
> you a lession you will never forget!!
> 
> And now i guess silence is golden for GOI ??
> 
> It might be cruel, sad for you, but the reality at the end of the
> 
> day, it is all about Might and Power of a nation.




Oh yes you are absolutely right it is all about might and power of a nation .

And PLA must have gained some experience after Tiananmen Square 

If you do not have something construtive to add do not harp on 1962 again and again, and china must have felt proud and courageous in 1989.


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## grey boy 2

Mig-29; Thankyou for agree with me for a change.

But will you mind stick to the topic?

Regard.


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## applesauce

Mig-29 said:


> Oh yes you are absolutely right it is all about might and power of a nation .
> 
> And PLA must have gained some experience after Tiananmen Square
> 
> If you do not have something construtive to add do not harp on 1962 again and again, and china must have felt proud and courageous in 1989.



stopping riots in 89 doesn't do crap as far as military skill is concerned give me and a thousands of my friends tear gas, tanks and guns i could stop riots too.

but back to the topic i really dont think china armed them as in the chinese government gave any sort of assistance to the terrorist, those guys probably just bought Chinese made guns cause its cheap or something


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## Developereo

Spitfighter said:


> The only real disputes we have are with Pakistan and China.



Translation: The only neighbors who can stand up for themselves and whom India can't bully by pure force are Pakistan and China.

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## pakomar

haawk said:


> its only pakistani nationals who are involved with the amount of chinese weponry that is increasinglymavailable freely in world markets because of thier obsecession for earning money by any means ....they have no ethics.........



Keep the stories coming?
Than the problem with India they can not do any thing expect ruing their mouth.
Indians commandos show their poor preference in the Mumbai attack where their failer was covered by media.

It does n t matter any more because intentional community already know if some thing happen in India they will nationally blames Pakistan.


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## Su 30mki

pakomar said:


> Keep the stories coming?
> Than the problem with India they can not do any thing expect ruing their mouth.
> Indians commandos show their poor preference in the Mumbai attack where their failer was covered by media.
> 
> It does n t matter any more because intentional community already know if some thing happen in India they will nationally blames Pakistan.



yea every time US saves PAK, I dont know what you heard about PAK PM, President accepts on Pak based terrorist and world knows and even UN. 

It only matter of time when someone bold Indian leader like Indra Gandhi came into power, till then its your time to enjoy.


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## Su 30mki

applesauce said:


> stopping riots in 89 doesn't do crap as far as military skill is concerned give me and a thousands of my friends tear gas, tanks and guns i could stop riots too.
> 
> but back to the topic i really dont think china armed them as in the chinese government gave any sort of assistance to the terrorist, those guys probably just bought Chinese made guns cause its cheap or something




Or must be came though PAK army ...... who knows. Like the Pistol used by Sikh Terrorist to hijack Indian Airline plane in 80's is made in Germany and Supplied to PAK Army, is been admitted in written and supplied by then German Govt.


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## pakomar

Su 30mki said:


> yea every time US saves PAK, I dont know what you heard about PAK PM, President accepts on Pak based terrorist and world knows and even UN.
> 
> It only matter of time when someone bold Indian leader like Indra Gandhi came into power, till then its your time to enjoy.




Ho you mean like Indian continuing terror activities in side Pakistan. Everyone knows that even your Indian president admits that in talks with Pakistan.


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## pakomar

Su 30mki said:


> Or must be came though PAK army ...... who knows. Like the Pistol used by Sikh Terrorist to hijack Indian Airline plane in 80's is made in Germany and Supplied to PAK Army, is been admitted in written and supplied by then German Govt.



Colombian farc rebels using American made weapons then its mean that US is providing them with weapons.


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## DaRk WaVe

Indian and american weapons were found in swat so this means Indians here on this forum wont hesitate to accept that Indians are involved in Swat, along with americans, right brothers...


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## DaRk WaVe

Developereo said:


> Translation: The only neighbors who can stand up for themselves and whom India can't bully by pure force are Pakistan and China.



exactly...


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## Fennecus

I hope you all realize that Gordon Chang's articles involve China collapsing (a year ago apparently), waging global trade wars, and other BS articles that I wouldn't even use to wipe my ***.

How some Indian members can take this buffoon seriously is amusing, but certainly not shocking.

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## Brahm0s

emo_girl said:


> exactly...



Friend Same goes with pakistan and china. They can't bully india by terrorist threats.


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## arihant

This is no way serious. Even if weapons are Chinese it doesn't china is involved. I even doubt the weapons were Chinese. Although they were from Pakistan and getting Chinese weapons is not that hard. But firmly, there is no direct relation of Mumbai attacks with China.

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## Fennecus

Brahm0s said:


> Friend Same goes with pakistan and china. They can't bully india by terrorist threats.



Nor are they trying.


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## Brahm0s

Fennecus said:


> Nor are they trying.



Friend you gotta be joking. Pakistan kept threatning india by the help of name 'Jihadis' (terrorists from pakistan's soil). You said pak and china not threatning india through terrorists than why the h*LL pak accepted mumbai terror attack done by pakistanis from pakistan's soil? Kasab is your country man. China wont threat india directly through terrorists. They dont wanna end up like pakistan. i mean today pakistan famous all over the world for 'wrong reasons'. Even when most pakistanis are alot good people. Due to some terrorists pak got bad name. China knows that. China will play role 'indirectly'. They way too clever than pakistan.

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## Brahm0s

arihant said:


> This is no way serious. Even if weapons are Chinese it doesn't china is involved. I even doubt the weapons were Chinese. Although they were from Pakistan and getting Chinese weapons is not that hard. But firmly, there is no direct relation of Mumbai attacks with China.



Friend as i said china way too clever. China knows everything whats going inside pakistan. Even when 'kargil war' started that mushraaf was in china (god knows why). His calls were traced by india when he was in china's 5star hotel talking to pakistans army people. China good at playing cards indirectly. Pakistan kept india busy in name of 'Kashmir' when its own terrotory swat and balochistan (which are way too populated than kashmir) were in danger. Without american money pakistan was into pieces. Its shocking when pak got internal problems why they kept begging our kashmir. Doesn't make any sence unless it benefits other country that is 'china'. Cheers.

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## arihant

Brahm0s said:


> Friend as i said china way too clever. China knows everything whats going inside pakistan. Even when 'kargil war' started that mushraaf was in china (god knows why). His calls were traced by india when he was in china's 5star hotel talking to pakistans army people. China good at playing cards indirectly. Pakistan kept india busy in name of 'Kashmir' when its own terrotory swat and balochistan (which are way too populated than kashmir) were in danger. Without american money pakistan was into pieces. Its shocking when pak got internal problems why they kept begging our kashmir. Doesn't make any sence unless it benefits other country that is 'china'. Cheers.



Off course, China is allied to Pakistan doesn't mean China directly involved in the Mumbai Attacks. Possibly both countries intelligence were still aware.


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## Su 30mki

aimarraul said:


> learn what is heathendom or separatists first.educate me on democracy when you clean up your "caste system" around india.



cast system in India , Muslims sects in PAK and HAN and Tibet , muslim etc in china

Why dont you settle , HAN and Tibet and Urges your own minority population before talking about other.


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## Su 30mki

pakomar said:


> Ho you mean like Indian continuing terror activities in side Pakistan. Everyone knows that even your Indian president admits that in talks with Pakistan.


If you dont know how to read , then no one can help you, India never admitted , it said we are open, show us what you got , but pak dont have anything to show, even you own foreign minister admitted we have nothing to show as proof to provide to India and World,

Sould i give you link ?of your own Ministers and PM saying rather then building bridges without pillers


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## pakomar

emo_girl said:


> Indian and american weapons were found in swat so this means Indians here on this forum wont hesitate to accept that Indians are involved in Swat, along with americans, right brothers...




You got that right that we did found American weapons in FATA but the Indian involvement = "consulates inside Afghanistan".


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## pakomar

Su 30mki said:


> If you dont know how to read , then no one can help you, India never admitted , it said we are open, show us what you got , but pak dont have anything to show, even you own foreign minister admitted we have nothing to show as proof to provide to India and World,
> 
> Sould i give you link ?of your own Ministers and PM saying rather then building bridges without pillers



At the moment Pakistan are not showing any thing I know that.
But answer me why Indians are opening their mouth when ever balochistan issue comes when Indians start caring about baluch Pakistanis?

Something going on..


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## pakomar

That country do that this country doing this always crying.
What happening to India is because of their own polices.
Indian do n t has Pakistan its only enemy. Nepal china sirlanka list goes on almost all the neighbors.


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## Adios Amigo

Brahm0s said:


> Friend you gotta be joking. Pakistan kept threatning india by the help of name 'Jihadis' (terrorists from pakistan's soil). You said pak and china not threatning india through terrorists than why the h*LL pak accepted mumbai terror attack done by pakistanis from pakistan's soil? Kasab is your country man.


hay u have been posting the most rediculous posts on this thread, pakistan never accepted mumbai terror attacks done by pakistan, but yes some terrorists involved may be of pakistani origon,that doesnt mean the state had to do anything with it. and we condemned that in strongest possible words, if u ask a comon man on the streats of pakistan even he would condomn it, the biggest reason because we are more hit by terrorsim then anyone else and we genuenly feal it, its easy to speak of anti terrorism slogans form far but damn difficult to fight it on the forefront whith your nation most exposed. 
the reason that those jahadis and alqaeda came into existance was to defeat USSR, and the mastermind behind this was big daddy america who gathered them from all arround the world. mind you it was the same jahadis who beat the hell out of russians and not americans thats y they were considered as herose of those times, but once americans agenda was completed, the left leaving behind the poison for us. so if jahadis can beat a super power how the hell u can controll them with such limited resources.
secondly talking of chinese wepons used in mumbai incident, its most possible, if u ever visit north west of pakistan, the tribal regions, i bet u can find any wepon from any part of the world be it russian, be it german, ukranoin,polish,french,italian,british, chinese,some local made stuff and even american. you would be astonished that the latest model M-16 is also available in the market. and there is no need of any lisence or limit on any wepon, nothing. u just go and pay the money buy the wepon of your choice. the reason chinese are more popular are because they are cheap and thats the way it would have found its way to mumbai.so china has nothing to do with it.

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## gpit

Ruag said:


> India's China Problem - Forbes.com
> 
> I never knew a country such as China could scoop so low.



0 of 1 people found the following review helpful: 
*History will eventually wash off rubbish like this book*....., July 27, 2009 
By Ping Wu "A Chink" (Mountain View, CA USA) - See all my reviews



> This review is from: The Coming Collapse of China (Hardcover)
> Today is 07/27/2009, China's GDP is expected to surpass Japan as the #2 biggest economy in one year or so. China's current GDP is more than Brazil, Russia and India combined. Oversea's chinese are returning to China in huge numbers, bringing back capital and know-hows. While there are still many problems in today's China, it is important to note that chinese ppl are experiencing the most prosperous period of time in the past 300 years.
> 
> *Mr. Chang, the clown*, should have shorted chinese stock with his retirement fund if he believed what he said, and probably should have changed his last name to something less chink....




1 of 2 people found the following review helpful: 
* interesting,* June 5, 2009 
By Z. Ge "bookworm" (usa) - See all my reviews




> The book should have been titled "The Coming Collapse of the US Banks". It is quite a surprise that the author lived in China for 20 years and yet failed to see the upward trend. How could it be?
> 
> It is interesting that despite being disproved by the accumulated evidence since the book was published, the author is still obsessed with the theme of China's collapse through his Forbes Magazine's columns and on-line blogs, which has found many willing audience in US.



6 of 9 people found the following review helpful: 
* The truth finally is here*, February 24, 2009 
By Victor (Singapore) - See all my reviews 



> This review is from: The Coming Collapse of China (Hardcover)
> The year is 2009. China has not collapsed. The world financial system (especially in the US and Western world) is in such a deep mess and teetering towards a great depression. Now the world hopes for China to stimulate sufficient growth to kick start this very sick global economy. The US hopes China will continue buying their treasury and bonds. Many Australian mining companies are near collapse desperately seeking Chinese investment. The IMF wants greater Chinese participation and money.
> 
> Mr Chang, your predictions and assessments were far from the truth.




3 of 5 people found the following review helpful: 
*Did He Ever Get it Wrong!, *January 18, 2009 
By Loyd E. Eskildson "Pragmatist" (Phoenix, AZ.) - See all my reviews




> Chang sees China as headed for the scrap heap of history. He sees its 100+ ethnic groups, high unemployment, and growing religious fervor as leading to upheaval.
> 
> Reality, turned out quite different. China is 92% Han - a single ethnic groups; most others are in rural areas near its borders. China has also proven adept in controlling religious groups - most famously the Falun Gong. And finally, its trade surplus grew sevenfold in the following six years ("In the Jaws of the Dragon").



8 of 12 people found the following review helpful: 
* It's really entertaining*, October 11, 2008 
By jerry lee "jerry lee" (USA) - See all my reviews 



> Only time can prove or disaprove a prediction. But now after 6 years when you read this book, how funny it is. China didn't collaps, but western country collaps by the over leveraged financial system.
> Acutally a similar article titled "the coming collaps of western system" (mimic Chang's book title) dated on feb, 2005 in China's internet now proved very accurate.
> No matter how true his point sounds like, time prove Chang is nothing but a talker, he know nothing about China, and know nothing about US where he lives
> A pure junk!
> A shameless cheater!




Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: The Coming Collapse of China

Well, enough is enough. *It is an outrageous offense to readers by quoting this clown's crap!*

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## khabib

Spitfighter said:


> The only real disputes we have are with Pakistan and China.
> 
> Other than that, insignificant incidents do take place from time to time, but its nothing to worry about.



There are really big issues with BD india. A weak country and govt. dying to make india happy( Sheikh Hasina) and biggest corrupted 
people are hiding it all the way. But believe me there are problem and
it need to address soon for the benefit of both of us.


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## khabib

haawk said:


> he he......bangladesh also has dispute with both its neighbours



One of them is " India" who has disputes with all of its neighbors that
include Bangladesh. Another one is Myanmar who has problem with all of its own people and Rest of the free world. 

Sound good


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## Brahm0s

adeos amigo said:


> hay u have been posting the most rediculous posts on this thread, pakistan never accepted mumbai terror attacks done by pakistan, but yes some terrorists involved may be of pakistani origon,that doesnt mean the state had to do anything with it. and we condemned that in strongest possible words, if u ask a comon man on the streats of pakistan even he would condomn it, the biggest reason because we are more hit by terrorsim then anyone else and we genuenly feal it, its easy to speak of anti terrorism slogans form far but damn difficult to fight it on the forefront whith your nation most exposed.
> the reason that those jahadis and alqaeda came into existance was to defeat USSR, and the mastermind behind this was big daddy america who gathered them from all arround the world. mind you it was the same jahadis who beat the hell out of russians and not americans thats y they were considered as herose of those times, but once americans agenda was completed, the left leaving behind the poison for us. so if jahadis can beat a super power how the hell u can controll them with such limited resources.
> secondly talking of chinese wepons used in mumbai incident, its most possible, if u ever visit north west of pakistan, the tribal regions, i bet u can find any wepon from any part of the world be it russian, be it german, ukranoin,polish,french,italian,british, chinese,some local made stuff and even american. you would be astonished that the latest model M-16 is also available in the market. and there is no need of any lisence or limit on any wepon, nothing. u just go and pay the money buy the wepon of your choice. the reason chinese are more popular are because they are cheap and thats the way it would have found its way to mumbai.so china has nothing to do with it.



Friend did i blamed whole pakistan? i said terrorists who attack in mumbai were pakistanis. By the way friend you used word 'MAY BE'. What that means? U think terrorists who attack in mumbai 'MIGHT BE' pakistanis? Are you saying you aint 'Sure'? Friend its your own media who proved who was 'KASAB'. Than your goverment addmited (by heavy heart and under pressure) that kasab was indeed pakistani. Anyway about weapons can be buyed by anywhere. Am blaming china because they play cards indirectly. i aint blaming them for supplying weapons (even when china famous for supplying weapons in tiny countries specially africa where people buy chinese by the help of china and the weapons used in rape of womens, kidnapping and killing of innocent kids). Everything caught on spy cam where alot trucks were full of chinese weapons deliverd to terrorists, rapists in africa by china. Than america and UN warned china. Quickly china denied it was sended by china. (china number 2 in denial after pakistan).


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## Brahm0s

khabib said:


> One of them is " India" who has disputes with all of its neighbors that
> include Bangladesh. Another one is Myanmar who has problem with all of its own people and Rest of the free world.
> 
> Sound good



India 2nd fastest growing economy my friend. So neighbour problem aint big thing for us. You should think about your own problem friend. Pakistan has problem with afghanistan, balochistan and india. That makes pakistan 'sandwich' between afghan, baloch and india. And guess what friend pakistans economy aint strong. Infact nowhere near 'stable'. let alone growing. Pakistan will also have problem with china near future. China already in Azad Kashmir Soon it would be C.O.K (china occupied kashmir). Worry that. Dont look into india's problem whose economy 2nd fastest in 'World'. Cheers.


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## Brahm0s

pakomar said:


> At the moment Pakistan are not showing any thing I know that.
> But answer me why Indians are opening their mouth when ever balochistan issue comes when Indians start caring about baluch Pakistanis?
> 
> Something going on&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..



Balochistan is 'TiT4TAT' my friend. Infact our prime minister way too clever that he let pakistan include balochistan in talks. Your prime minister been fooled by our prime minister. Our stand would be in future that if pakistan wants kashmir to be free than pakistan should free balochistan too. Got the hint friend? Now you know why balochistan was included in talks? It was a 'trape' by india and your pakistan fall in that trape thinking its gr8 for pakistan that balochistan been included in talks lol. Cheers.


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## Adios Amigo

Brahm0s said:


> India 2nd fastest growing economy my friend. So neighbour problem aint big thing for us. You should think about your own problem friend. Pakistan has problem with afghanistan, balochistan and india. That makes pakistan 'sandwich' between afghan, baloch and india.


listen man i don't know what u have been dreaming of???? wake up man,get some facts before you state it. Pakistan has got no big problems with Afghanistan, just small disputes over some petty issues, for your information sake the people of both countries are very friendly and cordial with each other, 70&#37; of afghan population are pushtoons and on the other side of the boarder NWFP and BALUCHISTAN are overwhelmingly pushtoon majority provinces, we have been harboring more then 5million afghan refugees for decades now, though they are strain on our economy but still we don't think so, the reason we share same religion, same culture, same language, everything. do u know how close bonds have been developed b/w Pakistani and afghan people??? you wont believe it but our afghan bros , who have even have gone back to their homeland, still even come and visit us every year. If they didn't have feelings of affection for us y the hell they would come and meet us every year?? they live us, go to schools, colleges and universities in our country, enjoys full rights, do businesses here and some have even settled permanently over here. now y should they do that?? because they found Pakistan promising enough with ample opportunity. many Pakistanis have learned Persian(including me) and many afghans have learned Urdu and other Pakistani languages. the relationship b/w Pakistan and Afghanistan doesn't get much affected by the governments lolly-Polly statements, because the heart of our relationship lies in people to people contacts(which by the way are more then good) so nothing for us to worry about, its just your wishful thinking. secondly who the hell told you Baluchistan is a separate country, man its our province, and most of them are loyal Pakistanis, nothing for us to worry about as baloach and pushtons are more then Pakistan loyal, the only problem is that fudels have been kicked out power,which india thinks it can use for its cunning objective to break Pakistan, so they come up with some excuses to destory the peace and destablise Pakistan, you can keep funding them as much as u like but its just waste of money because an ordinary bloach or pushtoon in bloachistan is not bothered about it at all. even you should look at the statements of shahzain bugti the grand son of late nawab akbar bugti, he openly admitted of being loyal to pakistan.so all your efforts gone in vain,, booooh so first part of your delusional plan that pakistan has problem with Afghanistan and its own state Baluchistan, got totally shetterd. and therefore no sandwich situation for us however its more then sandwich situation for india, just be practical and think of china to one side, pakistan to other, Bangladesh and Myanmar to other, not a good scenario, not at all. but more then that india should focus on in states like nagaland and assam etc who are asking for independence, that's even a worst situation.


Brahm0s said:


> Pakistan will also have problem with china near future.


 this statement belongs to military jokes section.lol


Brahm0s said:


> China already in Azad Kashmir Soon it would be C.O.K (china occupied kashmir). Worry that. Dont look into india's problem whose economy 2nd fastest in 'World'. Cheers.


again ur wet dreams listen there is nothing *** or COk, but IOK i.e indian occupied Kashmir is there for sure. the part of kashimir that is with pakistan is known as AZAD kashmir( free kashmir). they have thier own constitutional assembly, their own president and their own prime minster, their own flag and their own anthem. but look wats going on in indian held kashmir, more then 700,000 of your troops marching in the streets of kashmir killing and torturing innocent civilians in a failed attempt to suppress them. lets get practical, Kashmir doesn't belong to india nor to Pakistan, Kashmir belongs to kashmiris, let them decide for there fate, let them be masters of their own destiny.
lastly your economy can be the worlds fastest growing economy but if you have unresolved political disputes, you are going no where,but destruction, now its your choice to remain in denial state as u have been for ever, or you wanna change things for better???
regards.

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## Adios Amigo

Brahm0s said:


> Balochistan is 'TiT4TAT' my friend. Infact our prime minister way too clever that he let pakistan include balochistan in talks. Your prime minister been fooled by our prime minister. Our stand would be in future that if pakistan wants kashmir to be free than pakistan should free balochistan too. Got the hint friend? Now you know why balochistan was included in talks? It was a 'trape' by india and your pakistan fall in that trape thinking its gr8 for pakistan that balochistan been included in talks lol. Cheers.


 exactly this cunning mentality of your country is the cause of the problems, and that's y no peace can prevail in the region on permanent basis.this dishonest and non-sincere attitude of Indian leadership is causing, the billions of innocent public of the region regardless to which side of the border they live, to suffer. so be honest at least to your public, because this hypocrisy of yours is going to keep you entrapped in problems.


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## Brahm0s

adeos amigo said:


> listen man i dont know what u have been dreaming of???? wake up man,get some facts before you state it. pakistan has got no big problems with afghanistan, just small disputes over some pitty issues, for your information sake the people of both countries are very friendly and cordial with each other, 70% of afghan population are pushtoons and on the other side of the bordar NWFP and BLOACHISTAN are over whelmingly pushtoon mejority provences, we have been harbouring more then 5million afghan refujes for decades now, though they are strain on our economy but still we dont think so, the reason we share same religion, same culture, same language, everything. do u know how close bonds have been developed b/w pakistani and aghan people??? you wont believe it but our afghan bros , who have even have gone back to their homeland, still even come and visit us every year. If they didnt have fealings of affaction for us y the hell they would come and meet us every year?? they live us, go to schools, colleges and universities in our country, enjoys full rights, do businesses here and some have even satteled hare permanantly over here. now y should they do that?? because they found Pakistan promising enough with ample opertunitites. many pakistanis have learned persian(incuding me) and many afghans have learnt urdu and other pakistani languages. the relationship b/w pakistan and afghanistan doesnt get much affected by the governments lolly-polly statements, because the heart of our relationship lies in people to people contacts(which by the way are more then good) so nothing for us to worry about, its just your wishfull thinking. secondaly who the hell told you bloachistan is a seperate country, man its our provience, and most of them are loyal pakistanis, nothing for us to worry about as bloach and pushtons are more then pakistan loyal, the only probelm is that fudels have been kicked out power,which india thinks it can use for its cunning objective to break pakistan, so they come up with some exucuses to destory the peace and destablise pakistan, you can keep funding them as much as u like but its just waste of money because an ordinary bloach or pushtoon in bloachistan is not bothered about it at all. even you should look at the statements of shahzain bugti the grand son of late nawab akbar bugti, he openly commited of being loyal to pakistan.so all your efforts gone in vain,, booooh so first part of your dilusional plan that pakistan has problem with afganistan and its own state bloachistan, got totally shetterd. and therefore no sandwich situation for us however its more then sandwich situation for india, just be practical and think of china to one side, pakistan to other, bangladesh and maynmar to other, not a good senario, not at all. but more then that india should focus on in states like nagaland and asam etc who are asking for indepenedence, thats even a worst stituation.
> this statement belongs to miltaray jokes section.lol
> 
> again ur wet dreams listen there is nothing *** or COk, but IOK i.e indian occupied Kashmir is there for sure. the part of kashimir that is with pakistan is known as AZAD kashmir( free kashmir). they have thier own costitutional asembly, thier own president and thier own primeminster, their own flag and their own anthem. but look wats going on in indian held kashmir, more then 700,000 of your troops marching in the streats of kashmir killing and torturing innocent civilians in a failed attempt to supress them. lets get practical, kashmir doesnt belong to india nor to pakistan, kashmir belongs to kashmiris, let them decide for thire fate, let them be masters of thier own destiny.
> lastly your econmy can be the worlds fastest growing economy but if you have unresolved political disputes, you are going no where,but distruction, now its your choice to remain in denial state as u have been for ever, or you wana change things for better???
> regards.



Friend as far as i know its you who is dreaming. Afghans loves pakistanis? Are u out of your mind? Better go in afghanistan and say that and am sure you would be in your 'party suite' soon. Every afghan loves india. Got it? Its pakistan kept saying india dont have business in afghanistan. We indian build roads, gifted buses and gives afghanistan 1 billion dollars per year (while pakistan begs 1 billion dollars through 'loans' lol). Friend same thing with balochistan. Go in balochistan with indian. Check out to whome baloch people wellcomes. You or indian. Now you are saying about indian economy. Let me tell me u something india having problems with pak since 1947. U said india aint going nowhere with the border disputes. Indian economy 2nd fasted in world. So we are going somewhere. What pak? Where they going by having problem with india? They going downwords. Better for pak to leave dreaming about kashmir and am sure they will boom and soon become stable economy or else keep begging for loans forever. Today pakistan is alive due to 'loans'. Without them i can imagine what pakistan would look like. So my advice to you is 'open your eyes'. Pak going downwords and india upwords. Got it friend? Cheers.

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## Brahm0s

adeos amigo said:


> exactly this cunning mantality of your country is the cause of the problems, and thats y no peace can prevail in the region on perminant basis.this dishonest and non-sinscear attitude of indian leadership is casuing, the billions of innocent public of the region regardless to which side of the border they live, to suffer. so be honest at least to your public, because this hypocrsy of yours is going to keep you intraped in problems.



Friend do you really care for muslim peoples? Than friend where were you when your loving china kept killing innocent muslim in recent riots? WHY PAKISTAN SILENT? go chant against CHINA. Protest against them if you really care about Muslims. Friend let me tell u something your pakistan the one who kept killing innocent kashmiris. Even your mushraf said if india dont resolve kashmir than pak would kept sending pakistani jihadis in kashmir and india. Which country in world famous as most terrorist infected country? That crown given to 'PAKISTAN'. Leave dreaming kashmir and there would be peace in 'kashmir'. Your causing problems not only in india but also in whole 'WORLD' friend. Better open your eyes and accept what your country doing. Cheers.


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## Merilion

Brahm0s said:


> India 2nd fastest growing economy my friend. So neighbour problem aint big thing for us. You should think about your own problem friend. .





> Dont look into india's problem whose economy 2nd fastest in 'World'. Cheers.



 sorry boy, I just cannot help my laughing. By applying your logic here it will save a lot of my time in this and any future dispute with you--in case you don't know this--"China fastest growing economy my friend..."


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## Su 30mki

adeos amigo said:


> listen man i dont know what u have been dreaming of???? wake up man,get some facts before you state it. pakistan has got no big problems with afghanistan, just small disputes over some pitty issues, for your information sake the people of both countries are very friendly and cordial with each other, 70&#37; of afghan population are pushtoons and on the other side of the bordar NWFP and BLOACHISTAN are over whelmingly pushtoon mejority provences, we have been harbouring more then 5million afghan refujes for decades now, though they are strain on our economy but still we dont think so, the reason we share same religion, same culture, same language, everything. do u know how close bonds have been developed b/w pakistani and aghan people??? you wont believe it but our afghan bros , who have even have gone back to their homeland, still even come and visit us every year. If they didnt have fealings of affaction for us y the hell they would come and meet us every year?? they live us, go to schools, colleges and universities in our country, enjoys full rights, do businesses here and some have even satteled hare permanantly over here. now y should they do that?? because they found Pakistan promising enough with ample opertunitites. many pakistanis have learned persian(incuding me) and many afghans have learnt urdu and other pakistani languages. the relationship b/w pakistan and afghanistan doesnt get much affected by the governments lolly-polly statements, because the heart of our relationship lies in people to people contacts(which by the way are more then good) so nothing for us to worry about, its just your wishfull thinking. secondaly who the hell told you bloachistan is a seperate country, man its our provience, and most of them are loyal pakistanis, nothing for us to worry about as bloach and pushtons are more then pakistan loyal, the only probelm is that fudels have been kicked out power,which india thinks it can use for its cunning objective to break pakistan, so they come up with some exucuses to destory the peace and destablise pakistan, you can keep funding them as much as u like but its just waste of money because an ordinary bloach or pushtoon in bloachistan is not bothered about it at all. even you should look at the statements of shahzain bugti the grand son of late nawab akbar bugti, he openly commited of being loyal to pakistan.so all your efforts gone in vain,, booooh so first part of your dilusional plan that pakistan has problem with afganistan and its own state bloachistan, got totally shetterd. and therefore no sandwich situation for us however its more then sandwich situation for india, just be practical and think of china to one side, pakistan to other, bangladesh and maynmar to other, not a good senario, not at all. but more then that india should focus on in states like nagaland and asam etc who are asking for indepenedence, thats even a worst stituation.
> this statement belongs to miltaray jokes section.lol
> 
> again ur wet dreams listen there is nothing *** or COk, but IOK i.e indian occupied Kashmir is there for sure. the part of kashimir that is with pakistan is known as AZAD kashmir( free kashmir). they have thier own costitutional asembly, thier own president and thier own primeminster, their own flag and their own anthem. but look wats going on in indian held kashmir, more then 700,000 of your troops marching in the streats of kashmir killing and torturing innocent civilians in a failed attempt to supress them. lets get practical, kashmir doesnt belong to india nor to pakistan, kashmir belongs to kashmiris, let them decide for thire fate, let them be masters of thier own destiny.
> lastly your econmy can be the worlds fastest growing economy but if you have unresolved political disputes, you are going no where,but distruction, now its your choice to remain in denial state as u have been for ever, or you wana change things for better???
> regards.



Oh really that's why you didnt allowed Biscuits to cross for 2 million children in Afghanistan.

That's why you send Taliban ( 90% are Pak citizen) to rule Afghan people and kill them, out pre-historic age rules??

You people dont know who is which side , once Pak Gen's declared Batulla is True Pak patriotic and now he is no one enemy in Months.? 

if Kashmir is for Kashmir people then why you sell Kashmir land to china without asking Kashmir people ? oh you betrayed them? or its was pak land not Kashmirs as you are shouting?

We cant help those countries who don't want to grow, depute will always their, no matter what , you cant solve the problem with whom who don't want to.

and thats why you send terrorist to kill people, and apply pre historic Taliban rule? Made first you should rule your own country border, you dont have any control in your own land forget about another things..


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## Adios Amigo

Brahm0s said:


> Friend as far as i know its you who is dreaming. Afghans loves pakistanis? Are u out of your mind? Better go in afghanistan and say that and am sure you would be in your 'party suite' soon. Every afghan loves india. Got it?


 well who is dreamining, and who is not??? thats prety obvious, have u ever been to afghanistan???? heve u ever met an afghani? let alone going to afghanistan??? i guess not , then it means u believe in ur nieve media or ur pathetic movies,that always shows indians as a superior race and the rest of the world more then willing to bow them. listen it will be a big deal for u people to go to afghanistan, may be even in the next 100 years, but not for us, our pople dont need even a visa to go to afghanistan, you can check that on torkhum bordar, there is no hard checking system, people cross here and there qiute easily. regarding our people going to afghanistan and showing themselves as pakistanis you think the will be in thier party suites, you are damn wrong man, we are already there, 2 of my cousions are teaching in kardan unversity kabul, a lot of our enginers and professionals are working there to help build afghan infrastructure, many of our people have there businesses settaled over there, with regional offices, and not only in kabul but all over the country,i.e from jalalabad to qandahar, ghazni to mazar sharif. regarding every afghan loving india?? now i dont wanna say that u are again in ur dreamworld, but what for, whats speciality u have that they an ordinary afghan cant live without that. come on man its time for you to step in the real world. 



Brahm0s said:


> Its pakistan kept saying india dont have business in afghanistan. We indian build roads, gifted buses and gives afghanistan 1 billion dollars per year (while pakistan begs 1 billion dollars through 'loans' lol).


you are badly mistaken if you think u can buy hearts and minds of afghan people with money, the whole world is there for building afghanistan, so you are not doing something extra ordinary , rather its one your cunning plots that you think, help building in afghanistan, to be in a better position to install an anti pakistani government and a pro indian govt over there, so u can sandwish pakistan, but that flop idea of yours ant going to work, because of numerious reasons that i told you earlier, we might be beging 1 billion but look at our greatness we give even share of that to both afghan people living in pakistan and also to afghan govt.look at even in severe crisis of wheat some years back, we still gave them from our share, thats how you win hearts. and not mention we single handedly manging millions of afghan refugees for decades, no other country not even iran being thier neighbor did that, and now suddenly people like you pop out from nowhere and claim that afghanis love indian and hate pakistani??? now i believe u can make batter jokes than that 


Brahm0s said:


> Friend same thing with balochistan. Go in balochistan with indian. Check out to whome baloch people wellcomes. You or indian.


their you go with a better joke now did i c any indian going to bloachistan, and the balouchis welcomming them with hugs and kisses their loyal pakistani and they opted for pakistan at their free will at the time of independece, what makes u think bloauchi will love indian, what have you done for them???? ya i remember now, you give money and wepons to some terrorist fools and ask them destabalize thier own country, now u think this will make an ordinary balouch and pushtoon love india and hate pakistan. wake up by this you are helping them more to hate you more. and by the way i just came last month from quetta the capital city of blouchitan, to your disappointment i didnt c any such fealings in there


Brahm0s said:


> Now you are saying about indian economy. Let me tell me u something india having problems with pak since 1947. U said india aint going nowhere with the border disputes. Indian economy 2nd fasted in world. So we are going somewhere. What pak? Where they going by having problem with india? They going downwords. Better for pak to leave dreaming about kashmir and am sure they will boom and soon become stable economy or else keep begging for loans forever. Today pakistan is alive due to 'loans'. Without them i can imagine what pakistan would look like. So my advice to you is 'open your eyes'. Pak going downwords and india upwords. Got it friend? Cheers.



listen smart man,start accepting the realites now.we fought three wars over this issue, and you still think we are dreaming about kashmir. with this kind of attitude you are going no where, why the hell you dont fulfill your promises u made in united nations. where are the hell your moral obligations gone. may be kill some more kashmirs and do some more atrocities. the whole world knows about kashmir wat is, and by the way y is obama giving satements for kashmir resolution, thats shivers the feet of your political leadership.if u accept the truth once every thing will get resolved by itself. lets not say in a typical stupedious manner, that kashmir is mine,kashmir is mine. lets give the kashmiris the right of self determination , let them decide for their future,and as i said earlier let them be the masters of thier ownm destiny. certianly no one has the right to enslave them.
regards.

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## Adios Amigo

Su 30mki said:


> Oh really that's why you didnt allowed Biscuits to cross for 2 million children in Afghanistan.


i dont know wat crap you are refering to, but afghan children are not hungry for your pitty biscuits, they are in this misry due hard hit wars curtesy to your earlier masters USSR.


Su 30mki said:


> That's why you send Taliban ( 90&#37; are Pak citizen) to rule Afghan people and kill them, out pre-historic age rules??


 ya you can qoute 100% talibans pakistani citizens, as your crapy movies depict them so, but tell me why was your government shaking thier booty with the nothern allience, after all they were minority and killing the innocent majority pushtoons. by the way the talibans who are fighting the americans and nato, who are they, pakistani or afghanis. if they are pakistans y didnt they claim so far.


Su 30mki said:


> You people dont know who is which side , once Pak Gen's declared Batulla is True Pak patriotic and now he is no one enemy in Months.?


 baitullah is dead, if he was a true pakistani he would have never killed innocet civilians,and government would never let him die, so their goes your crapy claims.



Su 30mki said:


> if Kashmir is for Kashmir people then why you sell Kashmir land to china without asking Kashmir people ? oh you betrayed them? or its was pak land not Kashmirs as you are shouting?..


 another post that belongs milatry jokes segment kashmir was sold by ur popet raga hari singh for 77 lack rupees to the indian govt along with the people. what hari singh did, is no issue but just look what indian govt did,, buying a state with the people,, boooooh you can present hunderds and thousands of more lame exuses, but the fact remains that kashir belongs to the kashmirs and you are so afraid of them that you put more then 700,000 of your troops to supress them. booooh



Su 30mki said:


> We cant help those countries who don't want to grow, depute will always their, no matter what , you cant solve the problem with whom who don't want to.


no buddy needs your help, help yourself to grow but just regonise the rights of others. disputes will wipe off by itself only if you are honest and sinsere enough to recognise the rights of others.


Su 30mki said:


> and thats why you send terrorist to kill people, and apply pre historic Taliban rule? Made first you should rule your own country border,


 we have kicked talibans out of country to hell. proof is swat. the remaings are to follow the same path.


Su 30mki said:


> you dont have any control in your own land forget about another things..


this statement is a proof of your denile behavior. however its good advice for your own. u better get control of moists and nagaland and assam god knows what more.

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## Brahm0s

adeos amigo said:


> i dont know wat crap you are refering to, but afghan children are not hungry for your pitty biscuits, they are in this misry due hard hit wars curtesy to your earlier masters USSR.
> 
> ya you can qoute 100% talibans pakistani citizens, as your crapy movies depict them so, but tell me why was your government shaking thier booty with the nothern allience, after all they were minority and killing the innocent majority pushtoons. by the way the talibans who are fighting the americans and nato, who are they, pakistani or afghanis. if they are pakistans y didnt they claim so far.
> baitullah is dead, if he was a true pakistani he would have never killed innocet civilians,and government would never let him die, so their goes your crapy claims.
> 
> another post that belongs milatry jokes segment kashmir was sold by ur popet raga hari singh for 77 lack rupees to the indian govt along with the people. what hari singh did, is no issue but just look what indian govt did,, buying a state with the people,, boooooh you can present hunderds and thousands of more lame exuses, but the fact remains that kashir belongs to the kashmirs and you are so afraid of them that you put more then 700,000 of your troops to supress them. booooh
> 
> 
> no buddy needs your help, help yourself to grow but just regonise the rights of others. disputes will wipe off by itself only if you are honest and sinsere enough to recognise the rights of others.
> we have kicked talibans out of country to hell. proof is swat. the remaings are to follow the same path.
> 
> this statement is a proof of your denile behavior. however its good advice for your own. u better get control of moists and nagaland and assam god knows what more.



Friend raga hari singh sold kashmir to india right? Than why pakistan getting jealous? Kashmir sold to india. Now its india. So pak should get out of the way. Raga hari singh (king of kashmir) sold kashmir to india lol. Cheers.


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## Brahm0s

adeos amigo said:


> well who is dreamining, and who is not??? thats prety obvious, have u ever been to afghanistan???? heve u ever met an afghani? let alone going to afghanistan??? i guess not , then it means u believe in ur nieve media or ur pathetic movies,that always shows indians as a superior race and the rest of the world more then willing to bow them. listen it will be a big deal for u people to go to afghanistan, may be even in the next 100 years, but not for us, our pople dont need even a visa to go to afghanistan, you can check that on torkhum bordar, there is no hard checking system, people cross here and there qiute easily. regarding our people going to afghanistan and showing themselves as pakistanis you think the will be in thier party suites, you are damn wrong man, we are already there, 2 of my cousions are teaching in kardan unversity kabul, a lot of our enginers and professionals are working there to help build afghan infrastructure, many of our people have there businesses settaled over there, with regional offices, and not only in kabul but all over the country,i.e from jalalabad to qandahar, ghazni to mazar sharif. regarding every afghan loving india?? now i dont wanna say that u are again in ur dreamworld, but what for, whats speciality u have that they an ordinary afghan cant live without that. come on man its time for you to step in the real world.
> 
> 
> you are badly mistaken if you think u can buy hearts and minds of afghan people with money, the whole world is there for building afghanistan, so you are not doing something extra ordinary , rather its one your cunning plots that you think, help building in afghanistan, to be in a better position to install an anti pakistani government and a pro indian govt over there, so u can sandwish pakistan, but that flop idea of yours ant going to work, because of numerious reasons that i told you earlier, we might be beging 1 billion but look at our greatness we give even share of that to both afghan people living in pakistan and also to afghan govt.look at even in severe crisis of wheat some years back, we still gave them from our share, thats how you win hearts. and not mention we single handedly manging millions of afghan refugees for decades, no other country not even iran being thier neighbor did that, and now suddenly people like you pop out from nowhere and claim that afghanis love indian and hate pakistani??? now i believe u can make batter jokes than that
> 
> their you go with a better joke now did i c any indian going to bloachistan, and the balouchis welcomming them with hugs and kisses their loyal pakistani and they opted for pakistan at their free will at the time of independece, what makes u think bloauchi will love indian, what have you done for them???? ya i remember now, you give money and wepons to some terrorist fools and ask them destabalize thier own country, now u think this will make an ordinary balouch and pushtoon love india and hate pakistan. wake up by this you are helping them more to hate you more. and by the way i just came last month from quetta the capital city of blouchitan, to your disappointment i didnt c any such fealings in there
> 
> 
> listen smart man,start accepting the realites now.we fought three wars over this issue, and you still think we are dreaming about kashmir. with this kind of attitude you are going no where, why the hell you dont fulfill your promises u made in united nations. where are the hell your moral obligations gone. may be kill some more kashmirs and do some more atrocities. the whole world knows about kashmir wat is, and by the way y is obama giving satements for kashmir resolution, thats shivers the feet of your political leadership.if u accept the truth once every thing will get resolved by itself. lets not say in a typical stupedious manner, that kashmir is mine,kashmir is mine. lets give the kashmiris the right of self determination , let them decide for their future,and as i said earlier let them be the masters of thier ownm destiny. certianly no one has the right to enslave them.
> regards.



Friend am just wondering why would afghanistan love pakistan? Let me think.. Hmmz.. M still thinking.. Oh YES. Afghanistan loves pakistan because pak created TALIBAN. Congratulations lol. Would u just keep saying or would u tell us all why would afghanistan loves pakistan??? Now about kashmir. Pak fought 3 or more wars with india on kashmir. Whats the result? Lol. U want india to free kashmir? Friend who the hell you are to say that? U aint lord of kashmir. You are speaking pakistani jihadis language. Now about balochistan. Hmmz yet again it makes me wonder why would baloch people love pakistan??? Still thinking.. idea. May be for killing senior baloch leader??? Friend i think pak should free balochistan. Let them live free. Stop interfering in baloch country (not city lol). Friend its better u go and say whatever u said to you prime minister who kept saying india getting close to afghanistan and balochistan (i aint the one who saying it). Its your own prime minister who saying it. dont you think he should stop saying that? And by the way friend whole world helping afghanistan. Dont you think pak should too help them? Oh am sorry. i forgot pakistan itself living on 'loans'. Lol cheers friend.

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## Brahm0s

Merilion said:


> sorry boy, I just cannot help my laughing. By applying your logic here it will save a lot of my time in this and any future dispute with you--in case you don't know this--"China fastest growing economy my friend..."



Hello boy. You are right. China fastest economy and largest army 'YET' cant do much about anurachal pradesh. Lol. isn't that funny??? He he. Dont you think you should advice your china like 'think tanks' adviced them to help terrorists? Lol. Its really shame so big country begging land to country whose 3 times small in land mass lol. China's economy fastest. China has worlds largest army. China shouldn't beg. SNATCH IT. lol cheers boy.


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## pakomar

Brahm0s said:


> Balochistan is 'TiT4TAT' my friend. Infact our prime minister way too clever that he let pakistan include balochistan in talks. Your prime minister been fooled by our prime minister. Our stand would be in future that if pakistan wants kashmir to be free than pakistan should free balochistan too. Got the hint friend? Now you know why balochistan was included in talks? It was a 'trape' by india and your pakistan fall in that trape thinking its gr8 for pakistan that balochistan been included in talks lol. Cheers.



Balochistan is not a disputed land unlike Kashmir .Balochistan is recognizes part of Pakistan and every one recognize it.
If Indians think that they will put forward Balochistan issue comparing with Kashmir issue then in 19 states of India independence movement is going on (India should also gave them independence)


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## Adios Amigo

Brahm0s said:


> Friend raga hari singh sold kashmir to india right? Than why pakistan getting jealous? Kashmir sold to india. Now its india. So pak should get out of the way. Raga hari singh (king of kashmir) sold kashmir to india lol. Cheers.



raja hari singh was not the king of kashmir, but a mere pupet, since its very hard for you to understand things let me make it more simple for you. if you are the ruler of state or even a country, that doesnt mean that the state or country is your grandpas personal property that would be inherited to you, along with the population of that state, so its out of the question, that you can sell a state or a country. this pethetic move by india shows mean nature of their mantality. to explain it further to you, let me give you an example, if the queen of britan decides to sell england along with its people to germany or for that matter to any other country, would that be accepted by the world and mostly by the people of england???
now thats y i asked you several times to wake up and step in the real world.
regards.


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## arihant

pakomar said:


> Balochistan is not a disputed land unlike Kashmir .Balochistan is recognizes part of Pakistan and every one recognize it.
> If Indians think that they will put forward Balochistan issue comparing with Kashmir issue then in 19 states of India independence movement is going on (India should also gave them independence)



Which 19 states wants independence ?


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## arihant

adeos amigo said:


> raja hari singh was not the king of kashmir, but a mere pupet,



If you mean pupet, then you do mean that Mughals were "pupet". King is King and nothing else. Don't try to put your extraordinary views on off topic of kings.

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## Adios Amigo

Brahm0s said:


> Friend am just wondering why would afghanistan love pakistan? Let me think.. Hmmz.. M still thinking.. Oh YES. Afghanistan loves pakistan because pak created TALIBAN. Congratulations lol. Would u just keep saying or would u tell us all why would afghanistan loves pakistan??? .


respected sir, when i replied you in my first post, i said you have been posting the most rediculous posts on this thread, now i know for sure that i was not wrong , because this post is another proof of that. y do u keep on repeating the same crap in ur posts again and again, for which you have been answered in detail already. now i know it would be hard as nuts for you to understand the posts but atleast try to read them before you reply, this would help you avoid repeating the posts.


Brahm0s said:


> Now about kashmir. Pak fought 3 or more wars with india on kashmir. Whats the result? Lol. U want india to free kashmir? Friend who the hell you are to say that? U aint lord of kashmir. You are speaking pakistani jihadis language.


calm down now, i know u have been on fire, since you cannot figure out things through logic but still lets not try to make things worst now talking about kashmir, we fought three wars and wats the result??? still disputed, and a flash point for another war.
my dear i ant lord of kashmir and neither are you. the lords of kashmir are kashmiri people, and thats for you to understand. they will decide for their ultimate fate, and y are you afraid of that, acourding to your love logic, they must be loving you for what you did to them,so give them the their right of self determination, and if you are right in ur love logic they should opt for you people. still it will be a win-win situation for all kashmiris, india and even pakistan.
regarding jahadi language, well if i was speaking jhadi language, i wouldnt have been talking of kashmiri right of self determination, rather i would have stated something like " kashmir is ours, and we will take kahmir by force." now plz atleast try to understand this difference at least.


Brahm0s said:


> Now about balochistan. Hmmz yet again it makes me wonder why would baloch people love pakistan??? Still thinking.. idea. May be for killing senior baloch leader??? Friend i think pak should free balochistan. Let them live free. Stop interfering in baloch country (not city lol). Friend its better u go and say whatever u said to you prime minister who kept saying india getting close to afghanistan and balochistan (i aint the one who saying it). Its your own prime minister who saying it. dont you think he should stop saying that?.



listen smart man, bloachistan is an integral part of pakistan, i explained it earlier, but if you cannot read that properly thats not my mistake. its not a disputed terrotory between pakistan and india, like kashmir, so useless to compare it with kasmir. it is as silly as if pakistan ask india to free nagaland, tripura, assam and other teratories which are fighting for indepenednce, why???? because pakistan has nothing to do with that, its indias interal affairs, let them deal it as they like,and so is bloachistan for us, india has no role in bloachistan, so it will be better to stop funding a few terrorists.



Brahm0s said:


> And by the way friend whole world helping afghanistan. Dont you think pak should too help them? Oh am sorry. i forgot pakistan itself living on 'loans'. Lol cheers friend.


 pitty attempt to show pakistan down. dear we dont need to show and talk loud of our help, so that the world could notice our help, like you do. what we have have done for them, the whole world knows that, millions of refugees living in our country for decades, not to mention infrastuctre work going on in afghanistan, busses and a hell lot of other help on perminant bases for years rather decades, no need to mention it further, cause you ant ready to wakeup yet

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## arihant

@Brahm0s,

I think amigo is right. Just cool down.

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## pakomar

arihant said:


> Which 19 states wants independence ?



Of course in news they blamed it on ISI as usual but it is fact that India people right are not given by government of Indian. They are living like animals. So many state arms movement had been started for independence. 
Which world you living in

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## arihant

pakomar said:


> Of course in news they blamed it on ISI as usual but it is fact that India people right are not given by government of Indian. They are living like animals. So many state arms movement had been started for independence.
> Which world you living in
> 
> KgLaoFWlJKM[/media] - breaking news: pakistani flag hoisted in assam india soon assam will be part of pakistan



So you want to move from China-Mumbai to assam. Then let me go through Baluchistan, FATA, SWAT, Gilgit, Batlistan. 

If you see the video, it was done in almost all district of Assam. So its surely a plot rather then voice of people.

You talk about voice of people. When majority people wants then only consideration can be taken and this is not card game. On this basis, there will at least one person who wants his state to be separate and this way whole Pakistan will get wipe off. 

Talking about Freedom, then see about moments in USA itself. - List of U.S. state secession proposals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Brahm0s

adeos amigo said:


> respected sir, when i replied you in my first post, i said you have been posting the most rediculous posts on this thread, now i know for sure that i was not wrong , because this post is another proof of that. y do u keep on repeating the same crap in ur posts again and again, for which you have been answered in detail already. now i know it would be hard as nuts for you to understand the posts but atleast try to read them before you reply, this would help you avoid repeating the posts.
> 
> calm down now, i know u have been on fire, since you cannot figure out things through logic but still lets not try to make things worst now talking about kashmir, we fought three wars and wats the result??? still disputed, and a flash point for another war.
> my dear i ant lord of kashmir and neither are you. the lords of kashmir are kashmiri people, and thats for you to understand. they will decide for their ultimate fate, and y are you afraid of that, acourding to your love logic, they must be loving you for what you did to them,so give them the their right of self determination, and if you are right in ur love logic they should opt for you people. still it will be a win-win situation for all kashmiris, india and even pakistan.
> regarding jahadi language, well if i was speaking jhadi language, i wouldnt have been talking of kashmiri right of self determination, rather i would have stated something like " kashmir is ours, and we will take kahmir by force." now plz atleast try to understand this difference at least.
> 
> 
> listen smart man, bloachistan is an integral part of pakistan, i explained it earlier, but if you cannot read that properly thats not my mistake. its not a disputed terrotory between pakistan and india, like kashmir, so useless to compare it with kasmir. it is as silly as if pakistan ask india to free nagaland, tripura, assam and other teratories which are fighting for indepenednce, why???? because pakistan has nothing to do with that, its indias interal affairs, let them deal it as they like,and so is bloachistan for us, india has no role in bloachistan, so it will be better to stop funding a few terrorists.
> 
> pitty attempt to show pakistan down. dear we dont need to show and talk loud of our help, so that the world could notice our help, like you do. what we have have done for them, the whole world knows that, millions of refugees living in our country for decades, not to mention infrastuctre work going on in afghanistan, busses and a hell lot of other help on perminant bases for years rather decades, no need to mention it further, cause you ant ready to wakeup yet



Friend balochistan is internal part of pakistan? And kashmir aint india's internal part? Lol you are funny friend. Just because you are pakistani doesn't mean balochistan internal part of pakistan. 20 million baloch people wants freedom. Do you know how much is 20 million? Balochistan is 'mini country' itself. Better give them freedom or else if 1 baloch out of 20 gets out of controll than it would stand 1 MILLION strong baloch army (compare it to over half million pak army) lol. By the way friend i like you line in which you said result of all wars would be another war lol and than what? The end pakistan??? This time india clearly said that if war starts than it would be last war. In short 'india would go for kill' the last blow. India said it aint gonna leave pak litely this time if war starts. Its better for pak to keep begging 'loans' and store it because it wont last much in war lol. Friend u said i aint lord of kashmir (1 thing is sure u aint lord of kashmir because you are pakistani) but do you know kashmiris are 'INDIANS'. so am lord of kashmir or not its 'NONE' of your business. My simple advice is 'go and solve' your internal problem first and than try to poke noise in our kashmir lol. Cheers friend.


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## Brahm0s

pakomar said:


> Of course in news they blamed it on ISI as usual but it is fact that India people right are not given by government of Indian. They are living like animals. So many state arms movement had been started for independence.
> Which world you living in
> 
> KgLaoFWlJKM[/media] - breaking news: pakistani flag hoisted in assam india soon assam will be part of pakistan



Friend do u really think its alot difficult to flag other countries flag in country? Pakistan support terrorists. So few snicks in and hosted the flag. What if india decides to help terrorists and show them pakistan's highway and tells them to flag indian flag in pakistans assembly? Lol would than you would call it india's land? By the way friend the flag which been flaged was by chinese terrorists group (ULFA) who been flagging pakistans flag because they dont wanna expose CHINA'S hand in terrorist activity. Your countrys long buddy china been using pakistans name frequently lol. They way too clever. infact china made pakistan famous all over the world lol. Cheers friend.


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## Brahm0s

arihant said:


> @Brahm0s,
> 
> I think amigo is right. Just cool down.



Friend am cool. Am just saying the facts. It doesn't make sense why pakistan after kashmir when its own country ready to brake in many pieces lol. And about china man what can i say? They said they won in 1962. Yet anurachal pradesh belongs to india. Does that make sence? If they won than they should have took anurachal pradesh with them. Why didn't they? See friend this two countries poking noise in india's business. Its really sad to see this two countries have alot potensial to be 'developed' country yet they begging like kids to india. This china bit funny. 3 times bigger in land mass than india, yet begging land (even when population nearly same). i think india should be the one who should demand more land but guess what india too much innocent. If india demands land am sure india would get it by being good and support from developed countries. India should demand land from our neighbours rather than watch they demanding land lol. Cheers


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## s90

Brahm0s said:


> Friend do u really think its alot difficult to flag other countries flag in country? Pakistan support terrorists. So few snicks in and hosted the flag. What if india decides to help terrorists and show them pakistan's highway and tells them to flag indian flag in pakistans assembly? Lol would than you would call it india's land? By the way friend the flag which been flaged was by chinese terrorists group (ULFA) who been flagging pakistans flag because they dont wanna expose CHINA'S hand in terrorist activity. Your countrys long buddy china been using pakistans name frequently lol. They way too clever. infact china made pakistan famous all over the world lol. Cheers friend.



What suggests you that Pakistan will support a smaller movement and not a bigger separatists movement in India?

No inputs to suggest Naxalite-ISI links: Govt - India - NEWS - The Times of India


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## DaRk WaVe

Brahm0s said:


> Friend balochistan is internal part of pakistan? And kashmir aint india's internal part? Lol you are funny friend. Just because you are pakistani doesn't mean balochistan internal part of pakistan. 20 million baloch people wants freedom. Do you know how much is 20 million? Balochistan is 'mini country' itself. Better give them freedom or else if 1 baloch out of 20 gets out of controll than it would stand 1 MILLION strong baloch army (compare it to over half million pak army) lol. By the way friend i like you line in which you said result of all wars would be another war lol and than what? The end pakistan??? This time india clearly said that if war starts than it would be last war. In short 'india would go for kill' the last blow. India said it aint gonna leave pak litely this time if war starts. Its better for pak to keep begging 'loans' and store it because it wont last much in war lol. Friend u said i aint lord of kashmir (1 thing is sure u aint lord of kashmir because you are pakistani) but do you know kashmiris are 'INDIANS'. so am lord of kashmir or not its 'NONE' of your business. My simple advice is 'go and solve' your internal problem first and than try to poke noise in our kashmir lol. Cheers friend.



cut ur crap and just beacuse ur Indian dosent means tht Kashmir is integral part of India Indians have not even honoured the security council resolutions on Kashmir, btw wht are u smoking these days,u want to say tht all ppl in baluchistan r balochi, the population of Baluchistan is not 20 million dumbo, it was 6.5 million in 1998 and uptil now it wud have been hardly near 10 million and out of this only 35&#37; are balochis and rest r pujabi, pushtuns, makrani etc and out of these 35% balochis not all balochis support ur insurgency idea for a free balochistan u ppl think of insurgency and breaking nation a game of children, get ur facts right, and u said u ppl will go for the kill after ll u ppl think we r so weak so may i ask u what happened to the idea of surgical strikes which ppl like u forwarded & talked about it so much, wake up man, Pakistan is a reality u ppl are just abosolutely obsessed with Pakistan ur media is doing publicity for ISI n Pak army, do u really think u ppl can destroy Pak and just simply walk away, i say again cut ur crap & no need to give us advice plz try to solve ur problems we know how to handle our probs don't worry so much about us..

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## Ruag

emo_girl said:


> Indians have not even honoured the security council resolutions on Kashmir





Which security council resolution are you talking about? Resolution 47?

Read the text of that resolution before showing-off your knowledge here. And then tell me who have honored the resolution, and who haven't. 

I feel sorry for Pakistanis at times. Their leadership has brainwashed them so much that they have no sense of reality and live in this dreamworld.


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## Ruag

pakomar said:


> Of course in news they blamed it on ISI as usual but it is fact that India people right are not given by government of Indian. They are living like animals. So many state arms movement had been started for independence.
> Which world you living in
> 
> KgLaoFWlJKM[/media] - breaking news: pakistani flag hoisted in assam india soon assam will be part of pakistan



This is what happens when millions of Bangladeshis enter Assam. 

So.. couple of these illegal Bangladeshis decided to hoist the Pakistani flag, and this Indian media channel decided to sensationalize the issue to increase TRPs and Pakistanis now begin to think Assam will join Pakistan?! 

Secessionist movements in NE India have declined drastically. Movements like ULFA and others have been largely inactive and are only capable of carrying out terrorist attacks, those too occasionally, so as to stay in news. Speaks volumes about their desperation level.

Fact remains, despite the fact India is 10 times bigger and 10 times more diverse, Kashmir is the only region were separatism is dominant. But in Pakistan.. the list is never ending.


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## arihant

If tomorrow someone fly the Pakistan flag in USA, they might even claim New York. So funny...


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## pakomar

arihant said:


> So you want to move from China-Mumbai to assam. Then let me go through Baluchistan, FATA, SWAT, Gilgit, Batlistan.
> 
> If you see the video, it was done in almost all district of Assam. So its surely a plot rather then voice of people.
> 
> You talk about voice of people. When majority people wants then only consideration can be taken and this is not card game. On this basis, there will at least one person who wants his state to be separate and this way whole Pakistan will get wipe off.
> 
> Talking about Freedom, then see about moments in USA itself. - List of U.S. state secession proposals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Ho Mr. you said that if Pakistan demand Kashmir freedom Indian will make issue that free Balochistan that we will give Kashmir.
You answer your own question and wasting everyone time in this forum.
If some balochi support by raw stand against GOP then it does n t mean that whole baluchi people want freedom.


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## arihant

pakomar said:


> If some balochi support by raw stand against GOP then it does n t mean that whole baluchi people want freedom.



Same applies with Kashmir. If some ISI stand against GOI then it doesn't mean that whole Kashmiri people want freedom. Even, why should People trust you, you already agreed with china to gift 20% of the Jammu and Kashmir. 



pakomar said:


> Ho Mr. you said that if Pakistan demand Kashmir freedom Indian will make issue that free Balochistan that we will give Kashmir.



No need of that. As Pakistan has always demanded and nothing so far happened.


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## pakomar

Brahm0s said:


> Friend do u really think its alot difficult to flag other countries flag in country? Pakistan support terrorists. So few snicks in and hosted the flag. What if india decides to help terrorists and show them pakistan's highway and tells them to flag indian flag in pakistans assembly? Lol would than you would call it india's land? By the way friend the flag which been flaged was by chinese terrorists group (ULFA) who been flagging pakistans flag because they dont wanna expose CHINA'S hand in terrorist activity. Your countrys long buddy china been using pakistans name frequently lol. They way too clever. infact china made pakistan famous all over the world lol. Cheers friend.



Few balochi fighting against GOP why they are supported by Indian intelligent agency and media?


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## arihant

pakomar said:


> Few balochi fighting against GOP why they are supported by Indian intelligent agency and media?



Few Kashmiri Fighting against GOI, why they are supported by ISI and Pak Media ?


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## pakomar

Ruag said:


> This is what happens when millions of Bangladeshis enter Assam.
> 
> So.. couple of these illegal Bangladeshis decided to hoist the Pakistani flag, and this Indian media channel decided to sensationalize the issue to increase TRPs and Pakistanis now begin to think Assam will join Pakistan?!
> 
> Secessionist movements in NE India have declined drastically. Movements like ULFA and others have been largely inactive and are only capable of carrying out terrorist attacks, those too occasionally, so as to stay in news. Speaks volumes about their desperation level.
> 
> Fact remains, despite the fact India is 10 times bigger and 10 times more diverse, Kashmir is the only region were separatism is dominant. But in Pakistan.. the list is never ending.



I know this can be done easily any where?
If Bangladeshis why not a Bangladesh flag?


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## pakomar

arihant said:


> Same applies with Kashmir. If some ISI stand against GOI then it doesn't mean that whole Kashmiri people want freedom. Even, why should People trust you, you already agreed with china to gift 20% of the Jammu and Kashmir.
> 
> 
> 
> No need of that. As Pakistan has always demanded and nothing so far happened.




Kashmir movement start way back from 1947. While baluchistan issue is current.
Secondly balochistn is recognizing by all the countries even India.

Do n t mix balochistan with Kashmir. balochistan is Pakistan internal problem while Kashmir is disputed land(case in united nation).


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## arihant

pakomar said:


> Kashmir movement start way back from 1947. While baluchistan issue is current.
> Secondly balochistn is recognizing by all the countries even India.
> 
> Do n t mix balochistan with Kashmir. balochistan is Pakistan internal problem while Kashmir is disputed land(case in united nation).



It will be mix whenever you keep mixing other issues. As you don't care why should others care you. You keep sending Terrorist to other nations is this UN resolution or Pak Doctrine. I think India should not talk about this issue until Terrorism gets clear from whole country.


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## pakomar

arihant said:


> Few Kashmiri Fighting against GOI, why they are supported by ISI and Pak Media ?



Man Kashmir is disputed land issue between Pakistan and India from the independence of both countries. All Muslim majority area should go to Pakistan but it did happen that why case is in united nation.
Kashmir makes only Muslim majority area in Indian.


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## pakomar

arihant said:


> It will be mix whenever you keep mixing other issues. As you don't care why should others care you. You keep sending Terrorist to other nations is this UN resolution or Pak Doctrine. I think India should not talk about this issue until Terrorism gets clear from whole country.



Do gave me sh!t about terrorism . Whole world know how much terrorism was introduce by Indian in 1971.


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## arihant

pakomar said:


> Man Kashmir is disputed land issue between Pakistan and India from the independence of both countries. All Muslim majority area should go to Pakistan but it did happen that why case is in united nation.
> Kashmir makes only Muslim majority area in Indian.



You should learn doctrine of Independence first. It was with only Punjab and Bengal where Partition needed to be on the basis of religious and so what it was separate in two-two parts. Other states where given three, Join India, Join Pakistan or remain independent.

Kashmir wanted to remain independent and signed standstill agreement with both countries. Now, you attacked which force King to annex to India. Now, you demand for independent Kashmir, it's you which force Kashmir to leave independence and now making fool Kashmiris.


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## arihant

pakomar said:


> Do gave me sh!t about terrorism . Whole world know how much terrorism was introduce by Indian in 1971.



Which world ? I think whole World even United State agreed that Pakistan has Terrorist Camp in ***. Proof was shown by satellite images I Suppose. Try to google.


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## pakomar

Topic was china supplied weapons if this true than why Indians have not started their propaganda campaign against china.
Indian were quick in case of Pakistan.
I know why
Indian doing a lot of trade with china.


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## arihant

pakomar said:


> Topic was china supplied weapons if this true than why Indians have not started their propaganda campaign against china.
> Indian were quick in case of Pakistan.
> I know why
> Indian doing a lot of trade with china.



Because it's article and may not be truth. We will settle scores with China by any means, may be by friendship.

The thread was indeed about China and India but first of all some BD came then you started trolling and made this topic useless. 

I think now you are better aware about Kashmir issue then earlier.


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## pakomar

arihant said:


> You should learn doctrine of Independence first. It was with only Punjab and Bengal where Partition needed to be on the basis of religious and so what it was separate in two-two parts. Other states where given three, Join India, Join Pakistan or remain independent.
> 
> Kashmir wanted to remain independent and signed standstill agreement with both countries. Now, you attacked which force King to annex to India. Now, you demand for independent Kashmir, it's you which force Kashmir to leave independence and now making fool Kashmiris.



Kashmirs want to be with Pakistani not Indians.

---------- Post added at 06:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:58 PM ----------




arihant said:


> Which world ? I think whole World even United State agreed that Pakistan has Terrorist Camp in ***. Proof was shown by satellite images I Suppose. Try to google.




What are you talking about what terrorist camp?
The same terrorist camps were used against Russian by US.
At that time they were called holy warriors by US.

Same with Iraq they were called US allies now terrorist.


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## Ruag

pakomar said:


> I know this can be done easily any where?
> If Bangladeshis why not a Bangladesh flag?



Uhh.. because Bangladeshis have a soft corner for Pakistan? And why not? After all, Pakistan has helped these separatist movements in India immensely by providing them arms and funds. Hoisting Pak's flag is the least these people could do. They just love each other. 

So.. congrats! Assam will soon join Pakistan!


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## pakomar

arihant said:


> Because it's article and may not be truth. We will settle scores with China by any means, may be by friendship.
> 
> The thread was indeed about China and India but first of all some BD came then you started trolling and made this topic useless.
> 
> I think now you are better aware about Kashmir issue then earlier.



I know one thing that Kashmir is Pakistan and their people want to be with Pakistan.And the people of azad Kashmir is happier than people in Indians Kashmir
Lets see what game Indian play with china to take revenge.


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## arihant

pakomar said:


> Kashmirs want to be with Pakistani not Indians.
> 
> What are you talking about what terrorist camp?
> The same terrorist camps were used against Russian by US.
> At that time they were called holy warriors by US.
> 
> Same with Iraq they were called US allies now terrorist.




So, you agreed that there are terrorist camp in ***. It might have been helpful until 1990 then you deployed to war on Kashmiris in India.

I saw people demanding whole Kashmir to be independent state and you demanding it as Pakistan state. How Kashmir is Azad then ?


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## pakomar

arihant said:


> Because it's article and may not be truth. We will settle scores with China by any means, may be by friendship.
> 
> The thread was indeed about China and India but first of all some BD came then you started trolling and made this topic useless.
> 
> I think now you are better aware about Kashmir issue then earlier.



I know one thing that Kashmir is Pakistan and their people want to be with Pakistan.And the people of azad Kashmir is happier than people in Indians Kashmir.

Lets see what game Indian play with china to take revenge.
Personally I think this post is useless because weapon can by bought easily Afghanistan is good example for us.


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## pakomar

arihant said:


> So, you agreed that there are terrorist camp in ***. It might have been helpful until 1990 then you deployed to war on Kashmiris in India.
> 
> I saw people demanding whole Kashmir to be independent state and you demanding it as Pakistan state. How Kashmir is Azad then ?



You missing the big point US use people and countries in and out. US make same country its ally and terrorist at the same time.

Ask people in azad Kashmir youre self.


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## Adios Amigo

Brahm0s said:


> Friend balochistan is internal part of pakistan? And kashmir aint india's internal part? Lol you are funny friend. Just because you are pakistani doesn't mean balochistan internal part of pakistan. 20 million baloch people wants freedom. Do you know how much is 20 million? Balochistan is 'mini country' itself. Better give them freedom or else if 1 baloch out of 20 gets out of controll than it would stand 1 MILLION strong baloch army (compare it to over half million pak army) lol. By the way friend i like you line in which you said result of all wars would be another war lol and than what? The end pakistan??? This time india clearly said that if war starts than it would be last war. In short 'india would go for kill' the last blow. India said it aint gonna leave pak litely this time if war starts. Its better for pak to keep begging 'loans' and store it because it wont last much in war lol. Friend u said i aint lord of kashmir (1 thing is sure u aint lord of kashmir because you are pakistani) but do you know kashmiris are 'INDIANS'. so am lord of kashmir or not its 'NONE' of your business. My simple advice is 'go and solve' your internal problem first and than try to poke noise in our kashmir lol. Cheers friend.



i was exactly expecting the same kind of pethatic and insanly rediculous post from you, and guess what you didnt disappoint me u dont post for a point to prove, but just post it to show that u can reply,forget about the logic part.
well my friend there are two kinds of people in the world, those who do not understand, and those who do not want to understand. people who belong to the first catogory can be helped out, but people like you who belong to the second catogaory cannot be helped out, no metter what you do, they are simply hopeless.

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## arihant

pakomar said:


> I know one thing that Kashmir is Pakistan and their people want to be with Pakistan.And the people of azad Kashmir is happier than people in Indians Kashmir



Then why Pakistan has setup different Supreme Court, different legislation for Azad Kashmir. You even put aside the Northern Areas from development and participating in Pakistan Legislation.


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## pakomar

Ruag said:


> Uhh.. because Bangladeshis have a soft corner for Pakistan? And why not? After all, Pakistan has helped these separatist movements in India immensely by providing them arms and funds. Hoisting Pak's flag is the least these people could do. They just love each other.
> 
> So.. congrats! Assam will soon join Pakistan!



what really funny is 

Indian tried their best to make Bangladesh part of India .RAW funded movement inside Bangladesh in 1971.


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## arihant

pakomar said:


> what really funny is
> 
> Indian tried their best to make Bangladesh part of India .RAW funded movement inside Bangladesh in 1971.



I have seen your record, you keep increasing your chance to win laughter challenge championship.

RAW might have funded movement in Bangladesh but India tried their best to make Bangladesh part of India is hilarious. India was already controlling Bangladesh at the time of war and if India wished it could have incorporated. But as there was no such thing it became Bangladesh.


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## pakomar

arihant said:


> Then why Pakistan has setup different Supreme Court, different legislation for Azad Kashmir. You even put aside the Northern Areas from development and participating in Pakistan Legislation.



Kashmir people have their own court you got that right.
Kashmir support Pakistani not Indians.
Pakistan stands in UN because of azad system of Kashmiri people.


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## arihant

pakomar said:


> Kashmir people have their own court you got that right.
> Kashmir support Pakistani not Indians.
> Pakistan stands in UN because of azad system of Kashmiri people.



What is your stand on whole J&K. Do you recognize the independence of J&K and if yes, then J&K was already Independent until you attacked.

For your claim of Kashmir Support Pakistan then it might Azad Kashmir not Indian Kashmir. You will see there is lot of Economic development in Indian Kashmir then Azad Kashmir and if you stop terrorism for next 10 years, you will see next heaven reside in the Indian Kashmir.


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## pakomar

arihant said:


> I have seen your record, you keep increasing your chance to win laughter challenge championship.
> 
> RAW might have funded movement in Bangladesh but India tried their best to make Bangladesh part of India is hilarious. India was already controlling Bangladesh at the time of war and if India wished it could have incorporated. But as there was no such thing it became Bangladesh.



Now you are trying to win this laughter challenge.

If Indian army stayed longer same freedom fighter supported by Indian will fight against Indian army.
I know a Bangladeshi who father was a freedom fighter he told me that there were some incidents where Bangladeshi fighters fight against Indians army because of their stay.


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## Adios Amigo

come on guys, cool down, plenty of fireworks, just cool down, lets bring some sainity to this thread. no need to put in assam and other indian parts in this discussion, they are, indian parts, and pakistan dont want them,and has nothing to do with them, its tottaly indian affairs, either to free them or keep them, we shouldnt be bothered about that. same goes for blouchistan , its pakistan internal affair and india shouldnt be bothered about that. 
however kashmir is a disputed terrotory b/w the two countries. and no indain or pakistani should claim it. lets be rational, allow the kashmiri people to decide for their fate, after all they are not animals, who shouldnt be asked tied to a post against their will. let them have the power of this decision, and what so ever is the outcome should be acceptable to all. this is the only case wher we can have a win win situatin for all i.e kashimiris the real matter, india and pakistan.
regards.


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## pakomar

arihant said:


> What is your stand on whole J&K. Do you recognize the independence of J&K and if yes, then J&K was already Independent until you attacked.
> 
> For your claim of Kashmir Support Pakistan then it might Azad Kashmir not Indian Kashmir. You will see there is lot of Economic development in Indian Kashmir then Azad Kashmir and if you stop terrorism for next 10 years, you will see next heaven reside in the Indian Kashmir.




Try to understand its not Pakistani fighting its Kashmirs. Pakistani name will be use if anything happen in Indian.


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## arihant

pakomar said:


> If Indian army stayed longer same freedom fighter supported by Indian will fight against Indian army.
> I know a Bangladeshi who father was a freedom fighter he told me that there were some incidents where Bangladeshi fighters fight against Indians army because of their stay.



Even I heard, from BD and that too here. As I said, with opinion of one person, you cannot take whole such important decisions.


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## arihant

pakomar said:


> Try to understand its not Pakistani fighting its Kashmirs. Pakistani name will be use if anything happen in Indian.



For you information your own almighty President said something. Just Google and find out what he said about freedom fighters. He said that Freedom Fighters in Pakistan are terrorist used against India.

He knows better then you atleast.


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## pakomar

arihant said:


> Even I heard, from BD and that too here. As I said, with opinion of one person, you cannot take whole such important decisions.



Balochistan point was rise by you so keep your words in mind one baluchi 
you cannot take whole such important decisions


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## pakomar

arihant said:


> For you information your own almighty President said something. Just Google and find out what he said about freedom fighters. He said that Freedom Fighters in Pakistan are terrorist used against India.
> 
> He knows better then you atleast.



If 100 freedom fighter in Kashmir only 5 or 6 will be Pakistani rest of them will be Kashmirs.


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## Developereo

arihant said:


> *Few* Kashmiri Fighting against GOI, why they are supported by ISI and Pak Media ?



Try several thousand.


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## arihant

pakomar said:


> Balochistan point was rise by you so keep your words in mind one baluchi
> you cannot take whole such important decisions



I heard about Baluchistan first time in news when there was meeting in Egypt. So, it's you own who started blaming India for this and now issue has become almost big. Whether it helps India, or not but it surely help Baluchistan to put issue on international level. So, if you just try to shout, no will save you.


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## pakomar

arihant said:


> I heard about Baluchistan first time in news when there was meeting in Egypt. So, it's you own who started blaming India for this and now issue has become almost big. Whether it helps India, or not but it surely help Baluchistan to put issue on international level. So, if you just try to shout, no will save you.



Try to see the full story Pakistan rise this point because Indians are involved in balochistan.


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## Nihat

The title of the thread is very mis-leading. If the weapons with those terrorist were Chinese , how does it imply that China supplied them . we're talking China here , the next big country as many say , it's not exactly Pakistan you know.


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## arihant

I never believe that China will want to dirty its hand with act like terrorism.

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## Brahm0s

pakomar said:


> Try to understand it&#8217;s not Pakistani fighting its Kashmir&#8217;s. Pakistani name will be use if anything happen in Indian.


 
Hi friend. Are you sure? Ok than i believe u lol. Anyway 'kasab' (in english it means butcher) getting ready to get hanged by 'indian law' within 6 months. Friend i think its unfair. Why would 'kasab' get hanged in india when he a 'pakistani'? Do you agree with me? Or He from indian kashmir right? Lol cheers


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## s90

What the GoI's take on this story that "China supplied weapons" ?


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## s90

I think this thread should get back to its stated topic!


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## Saint N sinnerr

s90 said:


> I think this thread should get back to its stated topic!



Ur right mate


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## pakomar

s90 said:


> I think this thread should get back to its stated topic!



I agree.
Why Indians do n t get it weapons can be hired from anywhere of any country it very easy.


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## pakomar

Brahm0s said:


> Hi friend. Yep u are right. i saw how pakistan can handle its own problems. i seen pakistans 'loving president' when in japan with empty bowl and begged money. i heard him say 'oh please help us. We need your help. Help us to fight taliban or they would chew us' lol (he a gr8 actor i ever seen. Real contender of oscar). By the way friend its better to bring balochistans real population rather than saying baloch population 11years ago lol. Hey friend do you know why india aint done surgical strikes? Do you think america would have allowed that? Your pakistan kept begging america that if india attacked pak than they would move all forces towards india 'LEAVING TALIBAN BACK TO TAKE NUCLEAR WEAPONS' (pak got the brain lol). So india not attacked pak because india aint ready to upset america. Now friend if india attacked pak than whole attention would have been shifted from 26/11 to war. Right? Benefit for pak lol. So india done right thing. Now friend plz let me know how can pak match india's power in war? Hmmz.. Let me think.. 'NUCLEAR BOMBS'? Lol. Friend war is not about 'weapons'. Its about 'MONEY'. How much pakistan got? Lol cheers friend.



Ho man you tell the story one sided
Do you seriously believe that India make air strike in Pakistan and Pakistan air force stood their and watch. India only said that to increase pressure on Pakistan that it. 

Its Indian weakness too that US told them to stop air strike and Indians stop.
Pakistani was involved but not the GOP its a silly to make such kind of decisions.
How many Pakistan are killed by Indian sponsor terrorism. Do Pakistani come with bang bang attitude.


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## hj786

Brahm0s said:


> Hey friend do you know why india aint done surgical strikes? Do you think america would have allowed that? Your pakistan kept begging america that if india attacked pak than they would move all forces towards india 'LEAVING TALIBAN BACK TO TAKE NUCLEAR WEAPONS' (pak got the brain lol). So india not attacked pak because india aint ready to upset america. Now friend if india attacked pak than whole attention would have been shifted from 26/11 to war. Right? Benefit for pak lol. So india done right thing. Now friend plz let me know how can pak match india's power in war? Hmmz.. Let me think.. 'NUCLEAR BOMBS'? Lol. Friend war is not about 'weapons'. Its about 'MONEY'. How much pakistan got? Lol cheers friend.



Ladies and gentlemen, I present tonight's entertainment, a stupid 10 year old kid on the internet.

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## Hunter911

Ruag said:


> India's China Problem - Forbes.com
> 
> I never knew a country such as China could scoop so low.


 
What a Stupid guy ! You are so much need to read your history really. Don't you know the India government is also a rogue ? Once, they supported Dalai to split Xizang , is this a noble behavior? 
FUC* Rogue guy&#12290;I hope somebody uses gong fu to kick out your head .


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## khabib

arihant said:


> Even I heard, from BD and that too here. As I said, with opinion of one person, you cannot take whole such important decisions.



most of the freedom fighter commander were against the involvement of india in the war all the way. Also, they have serious issues with the AL govt when they allow india to take pakistani left over arms from BD after 1971.


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## khabib

Brahm0s said:


> India 2nd fastest growing economy my friend. So neighbour problem aint big thing for us. You should think about your own problem friend. Pakistan has problem with afghanistan, balochistan and india. That makes pakistan 'sandwich' between afghan, baloch and india. And guess what friend pakistans economy aint strong. Infact nowhere near 'stable'. let alone growing. Pakistan will also have problem with china near future. China already in Azad Kashmir Soon it would be C.O.K (china occupied kashmir). Worry that. Dont look into india's problem whose economy 2nd fastest in 'World'. Cheers.



This is not neighbor sproblem. This is simply your problem that you can not get alone with any of your neighbor. Period.


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## HolyZebu

pakomar said:


> what really funny is
> 
> Indian tried their best to make Bangladesh part of India .RAW funded movement inside Bangladesh in 1971.



Why will India ever try to consume a nation full of mullahs, poverty and cyclones? Pakistan should in fact thank India for getting it rid of Bangladesh.  Not to mean that Pakistan is any better


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## pakomar

HolyZebu said:


> Why will India ever try to consume a nation full of mullahs, poverty and cyclones? Pakistan should in fact thank India for getting it rid of Bangladesh.  Not to mean that Pakistan is any better



Moral of the story *Sometimes when we cannot get what we want, we pretend that it is not worth having"*


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## Adios Amigo

pakomar said:


> Moral of the story *Sometimes when we cannot get what we want, we pretend that it is not worth having"*



dont bother, he is the same guy RUAG, got banned last time, now his trying to provoke u, be careful


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## HolyZebu

pakomar said:


> Moral of the story *&#8220;Sometimes when we cannot get what we want, we pretend that it is not worth having"*



  

Do you have proof that India tried to "capture" Bangladesh? Coming up with empty claims is what some people have mastered here it seems.


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## IndianSuperpower

ISLAMABAD: Pakistani interior minister Rehman Malik asked India to stop blame game as it does not serve anyone's interest and invited his Indian
counterpart home minister P Chidambaram for an open debate over the issue of Mumbai attacks investigations.

Offering to have an open debate with the Indian home minister over the probing of Mumbai attacks, Malik said, "I am ready for the debate anywhere in India, Pakistan or wherever his Indian counterpart likes."

Talking to journalists in Islamabad, Rehman Malik said Pakistan was sincere in the investigations into the Mumbai attacks and it filed the chargesheet in the court within the period of 76 days whereas Indians took more than 90 days to prepare the chargesheet.

Rehman Malik started off by pointing out that the first formal response to Pakistan's February 9 request for information came on June 20th and that too was in Marathi language. Besides citing other Indian lapses, he pointed out that India refused to share the Samjotha Express dossier which was of critical importance as "a friendly country, which is also close to India, had told us that one of the Mumbai terrorists was also involved in the Mumbai incident".

"We have submitted his (Saeed's) chargesheet and the remaining two persons who have been arrested; we will be giving their final charge-sheet. I will give the details in two or three days", Malik said.

"Initially the Indians said Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi was the mastermind and we arrested him...now they have started saying that Hafiz Saeed is the mastermind", Malik said.

Accusing India for the blame game, the minister said: "Let's stop the blame game and play fair game." "India gave the latest evidence only 10 days back and "we need a few days to evaluate its veracity and also whether it can take the test of our courts. We cannot operate on hearsay alone. We respect your courts, you respect ours" Malik added.

When his attention was drawn to the recent statement by Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh about another attack from the Pakistani soil, Malik responded, "There was a statement from the PM of India that they knew there might be Bombay-like attacks replicated in India by the Pakistani Taliban. Prime Minister sir, you are the chief executive, whatever information you have, it must have come from your Intelligence agencies, why didn't you share it with us? Why were you holding this information before the Bombay attacks? Why didn't you tell us? We are two countries we could have investigated it together. I am still ready, lets meet."

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## PakShaheen79

I think not a bad idea... at least janta on both sides(emphasis is on word "both sides")will see who is not moving forward on Mumbai issue.


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## DaRk WaVe

Pakistan has officially offered to hold an open debate with the Indian home minister 

Pakistan has officially offered to hold an open debate with the Indian home minister over the probing of Mumbai attacks.

Interior Minister Rehman Malik said, I am ready for the debate anywhere in India, Pakistan or wherever his Indian counterpart likes.

Talking to journalists in Islamabad, Malik started off by pointing out that the first formal *response to Pakistans February 9 request for information came on June 20th and that too was in Marathi language. Besides citing other Indian lapses, he pointed out that India refused to share the Samjotha Express dossier which was of critical importance as a friendly country, which is also close to India, had told us that one of the Mumbai terrorists was also involved in the Mumbai incident* 

Malik said he had received the latest Indian dossier in which the Indians have provided us with a statement from Ajmal Kasab,* who claims now speaking to Hafiz Saeed when he was in Mumbai*(Indians need to decide the story).

*Initially the Indians said Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi was the mastermind and we arrested him now they have started saying that Hafiz Saeed is the mastermind, Malik said*.


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## IndianSuperpower

PakShaheen79 said:


> I think not a bad idea... at least janta on both sides(emphasis is on word "both sides")will see who is not moving forward on Mumbai issue.



I think this is a good idea and that debate should be live in both Pakistan and India.

But the outcome of such debate cannot be bases of the results. It should be more based on proofs and evidence. My Pakistani friends would agree loosing or winning a debate is more of an intellectual skill. There are people who know who are wrong but can present things in a debate to show the brighter side.


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## PakShaheen79

IndianSuperpower said:


> I think this is a good idea and that debate should be live in both Pakistan and India.
> 
> But the outcome of such debate cannot be bases of the results. It should be more based on proofs and evidence. My Pakistani friends would agree loosing or winning a debate is more of an intellectual skill. There are people who know who are wrong but can present things in a debate to show the brighter side.



One can only win or loss live debate once he has or has not anything concrete to follow his claims. Showing brighter side of a criminal is not that easy when too many brains from many countries are working on this crime. 
Now, coming to Mumbai an impression is given that Pakistani government send terrorists in Mumbai to kill civilian but failed to answer what Pakistani government was trying to achieve in these critical times when whole world is eyeing on Pakistani efforts to eradicate terrorism.


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## IndianSuperpower

PakShaheen79 said:


> One can only win or loss live debate once he has or has not anything concrete to follow his claims. Showing brighter side of a criminal is not that easy when too many brains from many countries are working on this crime.
> Now, coming to Mumbai an impression is given that Pakistani government send terrorists in Mumbai to kill civilian but failed to answer what Pakistani government was trying to achieve in these critical times when whole world is eyeing on Pakistani efforts to eradicate terrorism.



I do agree with that. But when you are debating or giving a presentation what matters is how convincingly you present it. For Example the presentation capability of Acharya Rajneesh or Osho.. This was one person who had convinced millions though the bottom line was many things were which all of us know are wrong. 

I would not comment on who is right and who is wrong but the thing is we cannot bias decisions on a debate but this would definitely bring the more clear picture of the issue on the both sides.


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## ISRO2

PakShaheen79 said:


> One can only win or loss live debate once he has or has not anything concrete to follow his claims. Showing brighter side of a criminal is not that easy when too many brains from many countries are working on this crime.
> Now, coming to Mumbai an impression is given that Pakistani government send terrorists in Mumbai to kill civilian but failed to answer what Pakistani government was trying to achieve in these critical times when whole world is eyeing on Pakistani efforts to eradicate terrorism.



Sir our former prime minister atal went pakistan. Just when he shake hand with nawaz sharif he said india and pakistan near to resolve kashmir. Sir out of nowhere pakistan dare to attack india in kargil. Isn't that stupidity? What was pakistan thinking that time sir? What they achieved? Same way 26/11 occord out of nowhere. Sir it seems pakistan working under china. If terrorist stops attacking india then india would grow 12percent or more. Thats what china dont want. Sir i think pakistan working as china's puppet. Plz no offence sir. Pakistan have good chance to grow rapidly even though they choosed to destroy itself. i feel sad for it.
About the debate with rehman malik thats an insult to india and victims of 26/11. News channels full of rehman maliks comment. 1 minute he says terrorist aint pakistan, 2nd minute he says yes they are pakistan and 3rd minute he says he never said that and 4th minute he say he never gave the interview. Sir sorry to say but mr rehman malik unstable mind. i dont want to call him by names but please do research in india and western countrys rehman malik known as what sir.


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## sha123

Really I don't understand what Pakistan will get if this debate may happened there is no change in circumstance who ever is win.. 
Mumbai Attack issue is more crucial then just conducting debate on it .
It show Pakistan Political attitude to wards addressing critical issues.


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## DaRk WaVe

sha123 said:


> Really I don't understand what Pakistan will get if this debate may happened there is no change in circumstance who ever is win..
> Mumbai Attack issue is more crucial then just conducting debate on it .
> *It show Pakistan Political attitude to wards addressing critical issues*.



It is atleast going to tell the world who has guts talk,i m sure Chidambaram will turn down this offer
What else u want Pak to do after all ur Bogus claims, ur story dont makes sense, once its Apple the very next moment its mango...
Recent accusations of Indian PM that another attack is about to be carried out is example mindset Indian leadership has


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## sha123

Dear Friend emo,
I am not against talk (Discussion) but debate is really different concept....
In Discussion solution of problem is easily find but Debate there is very very less possibility of finding solution. It is more to stick to point rather finding mutual solution.. In that way I have mention Attitude of Pakistani Political environment to ward Mumbai Attact...


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## PakShaheen79

ISRO2 said:


> Sir our former prime minister atal went pakistan. Just when he shake hand with nawaz sharif he said india and pakistan near to resolve kashmir. Sir out of nowhere pakistan dare to attack india in kargil. Isn't that stupidity? What was pakistan thinking that time sir? What they achieved? Same way 26/11 occord out of nowhere. Sir it seems pakistan working under china. If terrorist stops attacking india then india would grow 12percent or more. Thats what china dont want. Sir i think pakistan working as china's puppet. Plz no offence sir. Pakistan have good chance to grow rapidly even though they choosed to destroy itself. i feel sad for it.
> About the debate with rehman malik thats an insult to india and victims of 26/11. News channels full of rehman maliks comment. 1 minute he says terrorist aint pakistan, 2nd minute he says yes they are pakistan and 3rd minute he says he never said that and 4th minute he say he never gave the interview. Sir sorry to say but mr rehman malik unstable mind. i dont want to call him by names but please do research in india and western countrys rehman malik known as what sir.


Kargil is in Kashmir, Right and that is disputed land between two country. Calling it Attot-Ang of India will not change reality on ground. We better stick with Mumbai which is integral part of India.

As far as change of statement is concerned this must also benefit India rather than Pakistan in any open debate between FM of two countries... If Rehman Malik is that unstable mind why India is not willingly accepting this offer. You can easily corner him in a debate after all this debate will be happening in presence of some sort of moderator even without them... millions of people watching this debate alive will be in position to judge what the hell went on 26/11 and who is who in this episode.

Rest Pakistan has no need to act on Chinese interests Pakistan and India both have too many outstanding issues like Kashmir, Siachen, Sircreek etc. to resolve which one of these is linked with China?

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## third eye

Debate ?

Is this a publicity drive or a drive to impress domestic audiences or is it an election campaign ?

We are looking at seroius issues among nations not a local municipal election. In any case we have the Indian Foreign minister who is not comfortable with hindi / urdu & the Pk gent whose English is wobbly to say the least ( last eve I saw him refering to someone as "mind master " instead of ' mastermind: on the news.


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## PakShaheen79

sha123 said:


> Really I don't understand what Pakistan will get if this debate may happened there is no change in circumstance who ever is win..
> Mumbai Attack issue is more crucial then just conducting debate on it .
> It show Pakistan Political attitude to wards addressing critical issues.



Yes that is crucial that's why Indian were delaying proofs till four months and when delivered that was in Murati language, what you would like to call this attitude. First it was ISI and Paksitan army, then it was Zaki ur Rehman as mastermind and latest is it was Hafiz Saeed and he meet himself with terrorists... Which one is true and which one Indians think is more credible?

I wounder if Indian intelligence is that advanced why they were not able to stop attack at first place?


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## Mirage2000

ISRO2 said:


> Sir our former prime minister atal went pakistan. Just when he shake hand with nawaz sharif he said india and pakistan near to resolve kashmir. Sir out of nowhere pakistan dare to attack india in kargil. Isn't that stupidity? What was pakistan thinking that time sir? What they achieved?


It was done many times before by your country remember East Pakistan,Junagardh,Hyderabad which you wrongfully invaded? on the other hand kashmir is disputed territory and its not part of your country.
As for achievement we could have acheived a stratagic position in IOK,if it were not for your newest lover USA who came to pressurize Pakistan to back away,as eveident from casuallities which you sustained were many times more than Pakistan had it continued you could do nothing but try to capture it and be killed. 


ISRO2 said:


> Same way 26/11 occord out of nowhere. Sir it seems pakistan working under china.


 we do? 


ISRO2 said:


> If terrorist stops attacking india then india would grow 12percent or more.


 and if you stop sending RAW trained taliban from afghanistan in Pakistan,Pakistan would grow 212 percent. 


ISRO2 said:


> Thats what china dont want. Sir i think pakistan working as china's puppet. Plz no offence sir. Pakistan have good chance to grow rapidly even though they choosed to destroy itself. i feel sad for it.


Have you been watching india Tv too much?


ISRO2 said:


> About the debate with rehman malik thats an insult to india and victims of 26/11. News channels full of rehman maliks comment. 1 minute he says terrorist aint pakistan, 2nd minute he says yes they are pakistan and 3rd minute he says he never said that and 4th minute he say he never gave the interview. Sir sorry to say but mr rehman malik unstable mind. i dont want to call him by names but please do research in india and western countrys rehman malik known as what sir.


Well Mr its not a insult to india rather it will shut your foreign ministers mouth for good,because its you who have been imposing allegations on us,remaking old dossiers and giving us calling it "concrete proof" which is merely based on kasab's statements which can be fabricated,While you dont have enough proof you then go to your master america who has hired you in her fight against china,to pressurise Pakistan to arrest Hafiz Saeed,while covering up Samjhota Blasts and Kashmir issue in meantime.Well its great game beeing played by your country using Mumbai incident as a tool in trying to isolate Pakistan and to attach terrorist state label to us.
Does'nt it hurt the victim of mumbai incident when their suffering is used as diplomatic tool?


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## sha123

PakShaheen79 said:


> Yes that is crucial that's why Indian were delaying proofs till four months and when delivered that was in Murati language, what you would like to call this attitude. First it was ISI and Paksitan army, then it was Zaki ur Rehman as mastermind and latest is it was Hafiz Saeed and he meet himself with terrorists... Which one is true and which one Indians think is more credible?
> 
> I wounder if Indian intelligence is that advanced why they were not able to stop attack at first place?



Friend
What India has done, suppose to do and what India will do reading Mumbai attack is different matter we will discuss it alter on in new thread. Currently we are in this News issue...


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## PakShaheen79

sha123 said:


> Friend
> * What India has done, suppose to do* and what India will do reading Mumbai attack is different matter we will discuss it alter on in new thread. Currently we are in this News issue...



So we are in agreement what i told you.

Hope India do better in future. No sarcasm is intended.


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## Developereo

ISRO2 said:


> If terrorist stops attacking india then india would grow 12percent or more. Thats what china dont want. Sir i think pakistan working as china's puppet.



The terrorism flap has hit Pakistan far more than India. By your logic, Pakistan is deliberately shooting itself in the foot upon China's orders.

Wow, those "Incredible India" media writers should get a job in Hollywood writing blockbuster thrillers.



third eye said:


> Debate ?
> 
> Is this a publicity drive or a drive to impress domestic audiences or is it an election campaign ?
> 
> We are looking at seroius issues among nations not a local municipal election. In any case we have the Indian Foreign minister who is not comfortable with hindi / urdu & the Pk gent whose English is wobbly to say the least ( last eve I saw him refering to someone as "mind master " instead of ' mastermind: on the news.



Until now, both India and Pakistan have been talking past each other. Each one issues a press release, geared towards their intended audience, which is countered by the other side.

A one-on-one debate is precisely the forum where allegations and bullsh*t claims can be challenged on the spot and misunderstandings corrected.

Lay your cards on the table and let's see who's been bluffing all along.

And your comment about his English does not deserve a reply.


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## DaRk WaVe

I really dont understand y Indians dont want the interaction b/w Rehman Mailk & Chidambram to Happen, let it happen in front of whole sub continent & whole world, it can clear many points & may prove as a death blow to many conspiracy theories roaming in minds of ppl on both sides...

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## jaunty

emo_girl said:


> I really dont understand y Indians dont want the interaction b/w Rehman Mailk & Chidambram to Happen, let it happen in front of whole sub continent & whole world, it can clear many points & may prove as a death blow to many conspiracy theories roaming in minds of ppl on both sides...



Indians don't want the debate because it's not a feasible proposal and nothing but an attempt to achieve a false sense of superiority. This is not some American Presidential election campaign where they will debate on future policies and voters take into account the way they put forward the matters. This is about the investigations of a terrorist attack and to have an open debate is very juvenile.

Secondly is it not idiotic to think that Indian establishment will put forward all the proofs they have in front of the world through media. I mean has anyone ever seen such an incident before and without all the details having a debate is pointless. The proofs are for investigators to analyze and for the courts to take decision upon. 

Thirdly a debate depends on how good the debater is. I mean he may have all the details of the world in his side, but still look uncomfortable. So being a FM does not necessarily mean that Chidambram is also a good debater and putting somebody else of xyz will be similar to the endless debates people have online.

At last can anybody tell me what would be the outcome of the debate in a positive way other than the TV channels getting sky high TRP. If it was such a good idea the whole world would have solved all differences through open debate and also the objective is not to clear minds of people but to have a fair trial. 

So without commenting on the performance of Pakistan in the trials, I must say this is an insane idea.


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## Developereo

I think the Indians are afraid their sanctimonious charade will start to unravel. That's why they are running away from an honest face-to-face discussion of the facts.

A face-to-face debate will show the Indian public that their politicians have been bullsh*tting them all this time. Already, even before accepting the invitation, the expectations game is being played to downplay their guy's performance.

He doesn't speak Urdu/Hindi.
He is not a good debater.
Our evidence is confidential.
It's juvenile. (that's a new one!)


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## Goodperson

Developereo said:


> I think the Indians are afraid their sanctimonious charade will start to unravel. That's why they are running away from an honest face-to-face discussion of the facts.
> 
> A face-to-face debate will show the Indian public that their politicians have been bullsh*tting them all this time. Already, even before accepting the invitation, the expectations game is being played to downplay their guy's performance.
> 
> He doesn't speak Urdu/Hindi.
> He is not a good debater.
> Our evidence is confidential.
> It's juvenile. (that's a new one!)



Call for debate is attempt to divert from the issue, Malik wants to link other issues especially here the evidences are available to nail the terrorists. External intelligence agencies have provided vital inputs.

Such issues cannot be debated. Let me know can you debate Al Queda issue with Afghanistan?


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## PakShaheen79

jaunty said:


> Indians don't want the debate because it's not a feasible proposal and nothing but an attempt to achieve a false sense of superiority. This is not some American Presidential election campaign where they will debate on future policies and voters take into account the way they put forward the matters. This is about the investigations of a terrorist attack and to have an open debate is very juvenile.
> 
> Secondly is it not idiotic to think that Indian establishment will put forward all the proofs they have in front of the world through media. I mean has anyone ever seen such an incident before and without all the details having a debate is pointless. *The proofs are for investigators to analyze and for the courts to take decision upon. *
> 
> Thirdly a debate depends on how good the debater is. I mean he may have all the details of the world in his side, but still look uncomfortable. So being a FM does not necessarily mean that Chidambram is also a good debater and putting somebody else of xyz will be similar to the endless debates people have online.
> 
> At last can anybody tell me what would be the outcome of the debate in a positive way other than the TV channels getting sky high TRP. If it was such a good idea the whole world would have solved all differences through open debate and also the objective is not to clear minds of people but to have a fair trial.
> 
> So without commenting on the performance of Pakistan in the trials, I must say this is an insane idea.



Very rightly said...Now why Indians are not providing something substantial against Hafiz Saeed (I am not defending him rathering defending Pakistani courts here) so that courts can convict him. Current proofs of Indians are not sufficient to convict him in court of law and please don't come up with extradition to India as both countries have no such treaty in between them. 

In such complex situation, Why India is not accepting Pakistani proposal after all you have all the evidences against attackers and proofs of their links to Pakistan... So why this reluctance?


----------



## IceCold

sha123 said:


> Really I don't understand what Pakistan will get if this debate may happened there is no change in circumstance who ever is win..
> Mumbai Attack issue is more crucial then just conducting debate on it .
> It show Pakistan Political attitude to wards addressing critical issues.



Problem is India does not see honesty and commitment in Pakistan's attempt to curtail the people India thinks are involved or were the masterminds behind Mumbai carnage. How do we address the issue then? I am no fan of Mr.Malik however this time he really has stepped up to the occasion. There is nothing wrong with Pakistan's political attitude but the other way round. Sorry to say but the way your minister is whining these days shows India's pathetic political attitude to resolve critical issues with a neighboring country.


----------



## jaunty

Developereo said:


> I think the Indians are afraid their sanctimonious charade will start to unravel. That's why they are running away from *an honest face-to-face discussion of the facts*.



Ha ha . I am not against an honest face-to-face discussion of facts. I am against a public debate. Don't try to mix those. Both are completely different issues and let me assure you no one is afraid of anything. You have many international forums to unravel our 'sanctimonious charade' but I afraid you have not achieved that as yet and I have given my points why I am against a public debate. So come with some logic to counter those rather than beating around the bush.



> A face-to-face debate will show the Indian public that their politicians have been bullsh*tting them all this time. Already, even before accepting the invitation, the expectations game is being played to downplay their guy's performance.
> 
> He doesn't speak Urdu/Hindi.
> He is not a good debater.
> Our evidence is confidential.
> It's juvenile. (that's a new one!)



Again no logic at all. Get real buddy. We are not downplaying the performance of our FM in an *imaginary* debate. We are just stating why we are against a public debate. So if you have some good points advocating a public debate other than the illogical 'to show the people of the world' or some previous example where countries solved problems having public debate come with it.

On a lighter note, from one of my favorite sitcoms ' The big bang theory'-
''The wheel was a great idea, the relativity was a great idea, this is just a notion and a sucky one at that'


----------



## Developereo

Goodperson said:


> Call for debate is attempt to divert from the issue, Malik wants to link other issues



It sounds like he wants to debate specifically about the Mumbai case.



Goodperson said:


> especially here the evidences are available to nail the terrorists. External intelligence agencies have provided vital inputs.



The evidence will stand or fall on its merit regardless of who provided input.



Goodperson said:


> Such issues cannot be debated. Let me know can you debate Al Queda issue with Afghanistan?



No comparison. We are talking about a very specific event here and the evidence trailing supposedly leading up to it. What everybody wants to know is: *exactly what evidence has been provided by India and when was it provided*?

It's a very simple question and doesn't require extensive debating skills. Nobody has to reveal the source of their information if they don't want to. Since India claims that Pakistan has been dragging their feet, it is the perfect opportunity to tell the world, including the Indian and Pakistani public, what they told Pakistan and when.

Many of us would like to hear it directly from the people involved, instead of through media filters and press releases.


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## jaunty

PakShaheen79 said:


> Very rightly said...Now why Indians are not providing something substantial against Hafiz Saeed (I am not defending him rathering defending Pakistani courts here) so that courts can convict him. Current proofs of Indians are not sufficient to convict him in court of law and please don't come up with extradition to India as both countries have no such treaty in between them.
> 
> In such complex situation, Why India is not accepting Pakistani proposal after all you have all the evidences against attackers and proofs of their links to Pakistan... So why this reluctance?



I think you did not read my post carefully. you missed a point. In the last line I said 'without commenting on Pakistan's performance in the trials', which is self-explanatory why I would not like to go to Hafiz Saeed. I have not seen all the proofs given by Indian Govt., neither have I seen his trial in Pak courts. So I can't comment on that. Here I am giving my reasons on why I am just against the open debate idea of your Mr. Rehman Malik and I will stick to the point.Sorry.


----------



## Developereo

jaunty said:


> Ha ha . I am not against an honest face-to-face discussion of facts.



Then what's the problem?



jaunty said:


> I am against a public debate. Don't try to mix those. Both are completely different issues



OK, you lost me there. We are not talking about deciding the case in a public debate. We are only talking about establishing what evidence was presented when. There is nothing to debate. Either the evidence was presented at the specified time or it wasn't.

If Pakistan deems a certain piece of evidence to be inadmissible, that can be noted (agree to disagree for now) and move on to the next piece of evidence.



jaunty said:


> You have many international forums to unravel our 'sanctimonious charade' but I afraid you have not achieved that as yet



I am not aware of a public forum where both sides have had the chance to rebut each other's assertions in real time.



jaunty said:


> and I have given my points why I am against a public debate. So come with some logic to counter those rather than beating around the bush.



No beating. No bush. Just straight talk.



jaunty said:


> Again no logic at all. Get real buddy. We are not downplaying the performance of our FM in an *imaginary* debate. We are just stating why we are against a public debate. So if you have some good points advocating a public debate other than the illogical 'to show the people of the world' or some previous example where countries solved problems having public debate come with it.



Once again, we are not going to try the case and solve the problem in a debate, simply establish the timeline of the evidence.



jaunty said:


> On a lighter note, from one of my favorite sitcoms ' The big bang theory'-
> ''The wheel was a great idea, the relativity was a great idea, this is just a notion and a sucky one at that'



Never got tempted to watch that one. The only two sitcoms I watch are Seinfeld reruns and Two and a Half Men.


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## toxic_pus

Mr Chidambaram is not just a minister, he is trained lawyer, and a bloody good one at that. Don't think he is a pushover. Anyway, some snippets from an interview he gave to Al Jazeera. 



> Al Jazeera: *So you have made it very clear that you are not satisfied with the response [from] Pakistan &#8230; to chasing down those responsible for plotting the Mumbai attacks. Why are you not satisfied?*
> 
> Chidambaram: Because they are not arresting the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks. They are still on Pakistan soil. We know their names. We have shared their names with them. They are not investigating the case. The trial has not opened yet. It will be a year on the 26th of November. Therefore, we are thoroughly, totally dissatisfied with the Pakistani response.
> 
> AJ: *Do you believe that they are deliberately holding up the investigation?*
> 
> C: Yes. Regrettably that is the answer, but yes.
> 
> AJ: *So the Pakistani government, the Pakistani authorities, let's be clear about this, are deliberately stifling the investigation into the Mumbai attacks?*
> 
> C: Yes.
> 
> AJ: *Five individuals, militants, arrested in Pakistan, went before a court in Rawalpindi last weekend. Why is that not enough?*
> 
> C: Where is the trial? Where is the charge sheet? When is a trial starting? When is the first witness being examined?
> 
> AJ: *You've handed over dossiers to the Pakistanis which you say include cogent and convincing evidence that links Lashkar-e-Taiba chief Hafeez Sayeed to the Mumbai attacks. What is that evidence then?*
> 
> C: Well firstly I am a trained lawyer, so you'll have to accept my word as against a non-lawyer's word. The evidence that we have presented tells any investigator, any prosecutor what Hafeez Sayeed did, where he was, whom he met, what he told them, what his role was. If that is not evidence to continue [an] investigation against Hafeez Sayeed, what else is evidence?
> 
> AJ: *But he was held and then released because the courts in Pakistan were not convinced that there was enough evidence?*
> 
> C: The court can only be convinced if you present evidence&#8230; There is a vast distinction between the responsibility and role of the prosecution and the role and responsibility of the judge. The judge does not investigate. The judge weighs the evidence presented to the court. If no evidence is presented to the court, what will [the] judge do?
> 
> AJ: *Why won't you tell us what that evidence is though? Because at the moment we have the Indian authorities saying there is sufficient evidence, the Pakistani authorities saying it's insufficient. What is the evidence? Where was he when the attacks were being planned?
> *
> C: December 2007 - January 2008 he was in a place where Kasab and others were trained. He spoke to the trainees on many occasions. There was another training camp at a place called Chekhalabandi mountain of Muzaffarabad. Hafeez Sayeed was in the camp and met the trainees.
> 
> He was accompanied by a person known as major general "saab" [sir].
> 
> Hafeez Sayeed finally selected the trainees and gave them new names. Kasab was given a new name - "Abu Mujahid" - that name was given by Hafeez Sayeed.
> 
> Then they underwent marine training at a training camp and Hafeez Sayeed was present for that training too.
> 
> On the 13th day of roza [Muslim fasting during Ramadan] the selected trainees were called to the office of the Bait-ul-Mujahideen and Hafeez Sayeed met them there. I could go on. Places, dates, names, conversations.
> 
> Now if a prosecutor is unwilling to take this as prima facie evidence, investigate further, visit the places, go to the places, arrest Hafeez Sayeed, and discover further evidence what does the prosecution of Pakistan do?
> 
> Al Jazeera English - CENTRAL/S. ASIA - Interview: P Chidambaram


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## toxic_pus

Developereo said:


> We are not talking about deciding the case in a public debate. We are only talking about establishing what evidence was presented when. *There is nothing to debate*. Either the evidence was presented at the specified time or it wasn't.


So what's the fuss about. Just make the evidence public. The dossier is after all in GoP's possession.


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## Developereo

toxic_pus said:


> So what's the fuss about.



The timeline when the evidence was presented and whether Pakistan has been dragging their feet.

There are a whole host of allegations from the Pakistani side including
- initially it was in marathi
- evidence was delivered piecemeal
- latest evidence didn't get in till few days ago

I don't know which side is telling the truth, but neither side can lie about this matter if they are sitting face-to-face against each other.


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## XYON

CB's yatra to US shows Indian desperation supreme and judging by the diffusion of International interest and the visibility of Indian designs to defame Pakistan going down the drain!! Hillary did not even bothered to come to the State Department door to meet or say good bye to CB! That diplomatic snub says a lot on what the US thinks about Indian designs!

If CB is so concerned, hire a local lawyer in Pakistan and appeal against the release of the 'alleged' culprits. Indians have their courts and we have ours, needless to say whatever is in between is simply international politics.

Time Pakistan should stop bending over backwards to invite the Indians to talk.


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## PakShaheen79

jaunty said:


> I think you did not read my post carefully. you missed a point. In the last line I said 'without commenting on Pakistan's performance in the trials', which is self-explanatory why I would not like to go to Hafiz Saeed. I have not seen all the proofs given by Indian Govt., neither have I seen his trial in Pak courts. So I can't comment on that. Here I am giving my reasons on why I am just against the open debate idea of your Mr. Rehman Malik and I will stick to the point.Sorry.



Ok If you haven't seen proofs and trial what is the basis of aspersions you are casting about Pakistani performance? Dude, I can read in between the lines... So you want US to bully Pakistan on this issue to fulfill Indian demands regardless of what court proceeding and Indian proofs are proving or not. Sorry that is not going to happen either.


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## PakShaheen79

toxic_pus said:


> So what's the fuss about. Just make the evidence public. The dossier is after all in GoP's possession.



Oh really! Why don't India do it herself after all it is you who is blaming Pakistan and ISI and JeD etc. Go ahead... make it public in front of more than 1 billion people of yours.


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## graphican

sha123 said:


> Really I don't understand what Pakistan will get if this debate may happened there is no change in circumstance who ever is win..
> Mumbai Attack issue is more crucial then just conducting debate on it .
> It show Pakistan Political attitude to wards addressing critical issues.



Indian Politics floats on Love for India and Hatred for Pakistan. There are people in your own National Assembly who needed some serious issue like Mumbai Attack to sell themselves to Indian Public.. and they did well after that. Debate like this will expose who did what and who didn't and all before Indian, Pakistani and International Audience. More than Indian or Pakistan, its the aggrieved families of the incident who must know who was behind assassination of their loved ones. How Kurkure and the team got assassinated within first 15 minutes of firing and How 10 militants where able to make from Karachi to Mumbai within 2 days on a small motor-boat beating all radars and heavily patrolled doorways of Mumbai Sea Port. We need answers.

And why the heck are you not sure India would win it? Why is "who ever wins" an option to you? If you know Mujahideen did that, beat your chest and stand tall with the claims your government and media has been making.


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## Goodperson

Mumbai attackes was war on India by so called stateless terrorist from Pakistan. No point in having discussion with Pakistan on the same. As Pakistan itself knows discussions will not lead to solution. Pakistan can have discussion with Interpol who has put arrest warrant or request for trial in neutral court.

Call by Malik is just to divert attention and a gimmick.


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## HAIDER

According to Indian media, India suppose to provide passage to Kasab. Which they didn't . Now, no one in Pakistan govt knows, if Indians or Kasab is playing mind game by changing statement every day. But thats for sure Indian are trying their best to " cash out" Kasab much as possible by giving projection on western media and diverting from Kashmir issue..........but how long. A terrible situation happened in Mumbai, but their is time limit to use such situation, after that it expires.


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## SecularHumanist

A debate on this? Interesting.....

If it actually happens, please don't let Rehman Malik represent Pakistan. Rehman Malik couldn't debate with a shoe if his life was on the line.


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## Goodperson

HAIDER said:


> According to Indian media, India suppose to provide passage to Kasab. Which they didn't . Now, no one in Pakistan govt knows, if Indians or Kasab is playing mind game by changing statement every day. But thats for sure Indian are trying their best to " cash out" Kasab much as possible by giving projection on western media and diverting from Kashmir issue..........but how long. A terrible situation happened in Mumbai, but their is time limit to use such situation, after that it expires.



Where did you read in Media about passage not provided to Kasab ?

Pakistan calls Kasab a non state actor and not even provided 

Counselor access to its own citizen.


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## toxic_pus

Developereo said:


> The timeline when the evidence was presented and whether Pakistan has been dragging their feet.
> 
> There are a whole host of allegations from the Pakistani side including
> - initially it was in marathi
> - evidence was delivered piecemeal
> - latest evidence didn't get in till few days ago
> 
> I don't know which side is telling the truth, but neither side can lie about this matter if they are sitting face-to-face against each other.


Why is a 'debate' needed to answer these questions?

---------- Post added at 09:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 PM ----------




PakShaheen79 said:


> Oh really! Why don't India do it herself after all it is you who is blaming Pakistan and ISI and JeD etc. Go ahead... make it public in front of more than 1 billion people of yours.


Its your minister who is asking for a debate, not ours.


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## HAIDER

Goodperson said:


> Where did you read in Media about passage not provided to Kasab ?
> 
> Pakistan calls Kasab a non state actor and not even provided
> 
> Counselor access to its own citizen.


Where id media report passage was provided ?????....That's why Pakistani army lost trust on all Indian dossier.


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## Goodperson

HAIDER said:


> According to Indian media, India suppose to provide passage to Kasab. Which they didn't .



I was responding to above part. 

If Pakistan still wonders about Kasab's statement it can very well go ahead and provide counselor access and/or Lawyer to him.


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## Developereo

toxic_pus said:


> Why is a 'debate' needed to answer these questions?



We need a face-to-face meeting where each side can respond to the other's allegations.

It has to be in public so people can see for themselves without media filtering and pundit 'analysis'.

From all accounts your guy is a smart lawyer, and this Rehman guy of ours is not the sharpest tool in the shed, so you guys should be looking forward to it.


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## Goodperson

Developereo said:


> We need a face-to-face meeting where each side can respond to the other's allegations.
> 
> It has to be in public so people can see for themselves without media filtering and pundit 'analysis'.
> 
> From all accounts your guy is a smart lawyer, and this Rehman guy of ours is not the sharpest tool in the shed, so you guys should be looking forward to it.



Whats is understanding of each others allegation? Both should work towards bringing perpetrators of terrorist attack to Justice. It looks one side is providing dossiers and other side is providing counter dossier. 

Winning the debate is not India's Objective. Malik made statement knowing India would not oblige.


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## toxic_pus

Developereo said:


> *We need a face-to-face meeting where each side can respond to the other's allegations.
> *
> It has to be in public so people can see for themselves without media filtering and pundit 'analysis'.
> 
> From all accounts your guy is a smart lawyer, and this Rehman guy of ours is not the sharpest tool in the shed, so you guys should be looking forward to it.


*Goodperson* has already said what I would have said. I will just ask something entirely different.

Why do you think that without a 'face-to-face' meeting the questions, that you have raised, can't be answered. Whats wrong with official press releases. 

If at all necessary, Pakistan can issue a white paper on the entire issue. Why this call for 'face-to-face' debate?

The answer is in Goodperson's last sentence.

'Malik made statement knowing India would not oblige.'

This is called posturing, or gallery politics.


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## IceCold

One thing that we pakistanis need to know and understand by now is that we cannot satisfy Indians no matter what we do or how far are we willing to go, so better tell them to get lost. Its our way or the highway. They dont have a trust on our institutions, fine by us bye bye.
The way Chidambaram is running his loud mouth it is obvious it sorry i meant he wants to mount pressure on his Pakistani counter part before the up coming meeting between the 2. As usual nothing but a cheap indian tactic to isolate Pakistan and somehow exert as much pressure as they could to somehow force Pakistan to bow down to illegal Indian demands. They have given the list of sixty people they want from Pakistan to the US, i am surprised how did they miss ISI chief and COAS out of it.


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## graphican

Goodperson said:


> Mumbai attackes was war on India by so called stateless terrorist from Pakistan. No point in having discussion with Pakistan on the same. As Pakistan itself knows discussions will not lead to solution. Pakistan can have discussion with Interpol who has put arrest warrant or request for trial in neutral court.
> 
> Call by Malik is just to divert attention and a gimmick.



There are many loop holes in the story told by Indian Media and Indian Government. The dossier which New Delhi gave to Islamabad had blunders and undeniable faults. The gun which they claimed to be made in Pakistan (Darra) was fake, the Hand-Grenades were of Russian origin, Pak Washing Soda is actually Made in Iran and the brand Pak-Pickle didn't exist ever.. and surprisingly enough, the DNA tests of two terrorists were exact. People of Pakistan, who identify Mumbai attacks as terrorists activity and want culprits to be prosecuted are suspicious that India is telling is only "half truth". Same is being felt by people of India and they are not trusting Pakistan's intent to cooperate. You are blaming us, we are blaming you. This is a kind of deadlock everybody in Pakistan, India or living elsewhere must know who is causing this deadlock and who not.

It is incomprehensible why an Indian would oppose any step that goes towards fact finding. Are you afraid that this dialogue can lead to revelations you as an Indian are not ready to accept? Are you honest in finding and prosecuting the culprits of Mumbai Attacks, regardless of the fact who they were and where they live OR you are looking towards Pakistan no matter whoever is actually responsible for death of 180 innocent citizens?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hulk

Hi,
The intent of GOP was clear when they way they tried to hide the identity of Kasab. Can you seriously believe that after providing complete address to GOP it took them months to admit it. This clearly proved that they were trying to cover up. Now when at the satrt of investigation this was what you were doing in the name of coportation. How do you think people of India will feel.

Mumbai attack was not a small attack and GOP did said they want to coporate but what they did later clearly showed what they are upto.
I do not think anyone in India believe that pakistan will help India. This is going on with different purpose. Everyone knows the result.

It is unfortunate that 2 countries are in this kind of relationship where some people take pleasure in killing children and kids (No matter who that person is). Think if both sides take it to next level, this place will be hell. On the other hand if we become friends, I do not know how many of you can imagine the benfits of it.


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## ZAHOORULLAH

Instead of wasting time in debates PPP government should bring the mumbai attacks perpetrators to justice


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## Developereo

Indian politcians have been playing a cat and mouse game with the Mumbai evidence.

India wants to prolong this issue as long as possible, so they can milk the maximum international PR from this, both in terms of sympathy for India and terrorism label on Pakistan.

It also gives India a convenient excuse to delay talks on other matters, sideline Kashmir, and keep the Indian public pumped up on jingoism.


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## Hulk

I want someone from Pakistan to answer my question, was Pakistan not covering up by taking months to admit Kasab is from Pak.


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## SalmanNadeem

Haha. The day Pakistan admits guilt for Mumbai attacks is the day I eat my shoes.

Its never going to happen. 

Indians are fools as usual. They let this crap happen in their country. They should learn from China how to handle Islamic extremism.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

these indians. Lol.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

indianrabbit said:


> I want someone from Pakistan to answer my question, was Pakistan not covering up by taking months to admit Kasab is from Pak.


What difference does it make? Why was your navy and nsg fast asleep? Where were they? Why did it take so long to neutralize a few kids with AKs? Be more worried about the indian nationals who helped carry out the attack. Be more worried about the naxals who pose more risk. There are already 13 naxal affected states. Mangalore and Orissa and all other bjp led states meanwhile, are hotbed for hindu extremism. Find out why karkare was killed. Solve shamjota express bomb suspects. 70 of our nationals were killed. We are first to be making demands to hindustan. If india won't cooperate, we don't need to waste time even dealing with them. They can all go to hell, we don't care for them.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Fracker

I don't know what is running into minds of india and indians.. once they accuse pakistan for doing terrorism in their country, then they start complaining that pakistan is not helping them.. 

If you guyz really want the solution, then stop blamming job.. and this is what rehman malik says.. The headline was only to show that pakistan is also trying to help india while finding the solution... BUT here indians again done same blaming job.. 

Carry on, may be you manage in degrading pakistan (which is the main purpose of whole drama), not finding the solution, and solving the problem..


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## R.A.W.

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> What difference does it make? Why was your navy and nsg fast asleep? Where were they? Why did it take so long to neutralize a few kids with AKs? Be more worried about the indian nationals who helped carry out the attack. Be more worried about the naxals who pose more risk. There are already 13 naxal affected states. Mangalore and Orissa and all other bjp led states meanwhile, are hotbed for hindu extremism. Find out why karkare was killed. Solve shamjota express bomb suspects. 70 of our nationals were killed. We are first to be making demands to hindustan. If india won't cooperate, we don't need to waste time even dealing with them. They can all go to hell, we don't care for them.




To add few more points to your post

And then you come back shouting about Indian bombings in Pakistan, Indian involvement in Balochistan, Indian retaliation with so many bombings in Pakistan after 26/11 without any proof.....

What you sow is what you reap you need to understand that.... though India is not even involved yet as there are no proofs.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

R.A.W. said:


> To add few more points to your post
> 
> And then you come back shouting about Indian bombings in Pakistan, Indian involvement in Balochistan, Indian retaliation with so many bombings in Pakistan after 26/11 without any proof.....
> 
> What you sow is what you reap you need to understand that.... though India is not even involved yet as there are no proofs.



Why the f*ck shouldnt we? your bloody india was the one who pointed at ISI after Shamjota Express blasts --and it was only then that you ********* realized that it was actually an indian job (with some high ranking military officials involved as well)

our government is too cowardly to actively pursue indian meddling in Afghanistan. It just means that to deal with dirty work, we will play dirty too.......(i heard that indian defence attache in kabul lost his head after a nice boom-boom session )


be more pragmatic. Don't be a chest-thumping saffron wala. We already know how to deal with your kind. 

And quite frankly, Pakistan doesn't take india very seriously. To do so would be hard.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

but a pickle box, soap, and fake phone transcripts are enough proof. it was indian hotel workers who had a room with ammunition and magazines and grenades ready for them


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## R.A.W.

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Why the f*ck shouldnt we? your bloody india was the one who pointed at ISI after Shamjota Express blasts --and it was only then that you ********* realized that it was actually an indian job (with some high ranking military officials involved as well)
> 
> our government is too cowardly to actively pursue indian meddling in Afghanistan. It just means that to deal with dirty work, we will play dirty too.......(i heard that indian defence attache in kabul lost his head after a nice boom-boom session )
> 
> 
> be more pragmatic. Don't be a chest-thumping saffron wala. We already know how to deal with your kind.
> 
> And quite frankly, Pakistan doesn't take india very seriously. To do so would be hard.



The level of finance which Pakistan has the area which India has and the level of finance which India has and the area which Pakistan has if Indians were to support to such thing everyone knows who will be in advantage.

Anyways no Indian supports terrorism as a tool or some nut head who feels proud of some person's head getting blown off. 

But as per your post you have acknowledged indirectly about the Kabul bombings. If you did such a great job why dont you acknowledge in the public for that. Fearing Indians kya? Go ahead accept it. Or if some one else has done it then go ahead to media and praise it for doing such a great deed to have blown off head of a person. Scared of Indians???


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## R.A.W.

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> but a pickle box, soap, and fake phone transcripts are enough proof. it was indian hotel workers who had a room with ammunition and magazines and grenades ready for them



And your govenment said it was a Pakistani and banned your organizations at the end of the day. 

Your own illusions and stories and not going to do any good to you because Indians made you accept it and your govenment accepted it. How much you cry at the end you will have to see the mirror.


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## rubyjackass

Just out of interest...
Chidambaram was a lawyer by profession before he got into politics.
What was Rehman Malik's profession?


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## Abu Zolfiqar

R.A.W. said:


> But as per your post you have acknowledged indirectly about the Kabul bombings. If you did such a great job why dont you acknowledge in the public for that. Fearing Indians kya? Go ahead accept it. Or if some one else has done it then go ahead to media and praise it for doing such a great deed to have blown off head of a person. Scared of Indians???



i dont have proof that we had anything to do with it. I'm not even involved in intelligence or military circles at this time.....

Has nothing to do with fearing some short indians. But it's just a game being played by both sides. You create sabotage in Baluchistan, we will make your life HELL in Afghanistan. We dont need to meddle in Kashmir, because they themselves are starting to rise against indian army presence.

Look at Sri Nagar --where every day there are shuttered protests. The locals all wave Pakistani flags from dawn till dusk.


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## R.A.W.

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> i dont have proof that we had anything to do with it. I'm not even involved in intelligence or military circles at this time.....
> 
> Has nothing to do with fearing some short indians. But it's just a game being played by both sides. You create sabotage in Baluchistan, we will make your life HELL in Afghanistan. We dont need to meddle in Kashmir, because they themselves are starting to rise against indian army presence.
> 
> Look at Sri Nagar --where every day there are shuttered protests. The locals all wave Pakistani flags from dawn till dusk.



Thats simple right? Equations are very simple as you said you create trouble here you will have trouble in Pakistan. Equations are simple and now you are talking sensible as compared to your previous posts. Sorry to say that but this one is far more creditible post for a military professional.

As far as Kashmir is concerned their are 2 sides of the coin. You get to know what you wanna hear and we get to know what we wanna hear. There are protests no doubt but there is also cross border infiltration which is fuelling these protests.


----------



## Watani

Has there been any debate about it already? It's important to know whether India really did it themselves because that would justify Pakistan's anger on India and Pakistan then indeed should be more careful.


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## paritosh

Watani said:


> Has there been any debate about it already? It's important to know whether India really did it themselves because that would justify Pakistan's anger on India and Pakistan then indeed should be more careful.



that part has been sorted out...Pakistani govt. acknowledges that the attack was planned in Pakistan by Pakistanis...what is left to be seen is whether the GoP was invovled directly or not.


----------



## Hulk

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> What difference does it make? Why was your navy and nsg fast asleep? Where were they? Why did it take so long to neutralize a few kids with AKs? Be more worried about the indian nationals who helped carry out the attack. Be more worried about the naxals who pose more risk. There are already 13 naxal affected states. Mangalore and Orissa and all other bjp led states meanwhile, are hotbed for hindu extremism. Find out why karkare was killed. Solve shamjota express bomb suspects. 70 of our nationals were killed. We are first to be making demands to hindustan. If india won't cooperate, we don't need to waste time even dealing with them. They can all go to hell, we don't care for them.



I got your point, you are saying we have hand in Mumbai blast and we will not corporate. In future do not say India has not given evidence.


----------



## Fracker

paritosh said:


> that part has been sorted out...Pakistani govt. acknowledges that the attack was planned in Pakistan by Pakistanis...what is left to be seen is whether the GoP was invovled directly or not.



You are sick!!

These things are been accepted & said by pakistan,

1. Ajmal Kasab is pakistani (non other terrorist was accepted as pakistani)
2. Some part of this attack has been made in pakistan (means some part could be in mumbai, it depends where terrorist get more information from)
3. Pak SC release LeT leader because India couldn't give enough evidences against him.
4. RM is saying stop shouting and blaming job.. if you really want to have something i.e. pakistan is not helping, then come up on the table and for open talk.. which means pakistan is doing everything in his capability even banned organization, without indian proofs.. 
5. What is taking india so long in collecting proofs, are they making up or what? a year is going to pass that indians are barking around for mumbai attack, but yet no enough evidence to proof their stance.. and even fail to trail the capture terrorist, yet expecting more then that from pakistan...If you have balls to prove your points then come to open debate to proof your point.. why shouting around just for no reason..


----------



## R.A.W.

Fracker said:


> You are sick!!
> 5. What is taking india so long in collecting proofs, are they making up or what? a year is going to pass that indians are barking around for mumbai attack, but yet no enough evidence to proof their stance.. and even fail to trail the capture terrorist, yet expecting more then that from pakistan...If you have balls to prove your points then come to open debate to proof your point.. why shouting around just for no reason..



See Pakistan is denying the current proofs as not creditable enough for any proof given to them when the same was accepted by majority of nations as well as UN. Based on which organizations within Pakistan were banned.

Trials are going on. In India we have a judicial system where there is a trial and the decisions are after listening from both sides. We do not just hang around people just like that. No democracy in the world allows that.

If debate was the solution for all problems Indian (also known for the worlds biggest outsourcing industry and marketing and selling things to world) intellectuals would have loved to sell all issues with that. A decison on Kashmir or Mumbai can not be based upon a open debate. And if it does not yield results what is the point of having it at the very first place.

And mind your language calling Indians barking, we very well know how to reply to that and how bite right in the "you know where"


----------



## Fracker

R.A.W. said:


> See Pakistan is denying the current proofs as not creditable enough for any proof given to them when the same was accepted by majority of nations as well as UN. Based on which organizations within Pakistan were banned.



Did india given any evidence to pakistan at that time? No, still pakistan banned that organization, that also clearly shows pakistan is sincere to solve the problem.. but i still didn't get it, what you guyz shown in UN, so they banned this organization. since the proofs clearly shows that it is not enough to hang/arrest whole organization or even single person.. which is done by SC, which is our independent judicial system, nothing to do with pak government or political system



R.A.W. said:


> If debate was the solution for all problems



This now shows that you are an indian, they have some understanding problem.. I try my level best to make you guyz understand but failed. Last try!!

I meant RM said, stop shouting around the world that pakistan is not cooperating, since Pakistan is cooperating, banning, arresting clearly shows They are serious, spend our tax money on solving your stupid security mishap, is another indication that pakistan is trying to help.. but if really want to shout then come on the debate, so whole world see who is shout a.k.a _____ and who is actually working to solve problem.. Debate is not to solve the problem but make you guyz SHUT UP!! get it?



R.A.W. said:


> And mind your language calling Indians barking, we very well know how to reply to that and how bite right in the "you know where"



I trained around 25.. I know those bark can't bite, they are just hiding their fear.. and trying to make other scare so he do something stupid, like run away.


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## R.A.W.

Fracker said:


> Did india given any evidence to pakistan at that time? No, still pakistan banned that organization, that also clearly shows pakistan is sincere to solve the problem.. but i still didn't get it, what you guyz shown in UN, so they banned this organization. since the proofs clearly shows that it is not enough to hang/arrest whole organization or even single person.. which is done by SC, which is our independent judicial system, nothing to do with pak government or political system
> 
> 
> 
> This now shows that you are an indian, they have some understanding problem.. I try my level best to make you guyz understand but failed. Last try!!
> 
> I meant RM said, stop shouting around the world that pakistan is not cooperating, since Pakistan is cooperating, banning, arresting clearly shows They are serious, spend our tax money on solving your stupid security mishap, is another indication that pakistan is trying to help.. but if really want to shout then come on the debate, so whole world see who is shout a.k.a _____ and who is actually working to solve problem.. Debate is not to solve the problem but make you guyz SHUT UP!! get it?
> 
> 
> 
> I trained around 25.. I know those bark can't bite, they are just hiding their fear.. and trying to make other scare so he do something stupid, like run away.



See neither you nor us can comment on the proofs shared but the same proofs were shown to the world community. There is flaw in Judicial system then if the same proofs are accepted by the world but not by the Judicial system in Pakistan.

So you think winning a debate will shut up. Boss trial and investigations are underway. If we come up with something tomorrow we will be presenting it again in the world. So should we go for debate again after new discovery or revelation is made in the coarse of investigation. Do you think that would result anything with every new discovery rendering the previous debate useless.

Dont know what you trained and how you trained but yeah I can see the Indian bite marks when I see the geography of South Asia.


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## PakShaheen79

rubyjackass said:


> Just out of interest...
> Chidambaram was a lawyer by profession before he got into politics.
> What was Rehman Malik's profession?


Even then he is not accepting proposal of debate... Hmmmm it seems something fishy in all this Indian hoopla.


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## paritosh

Fracker said:


> You are sick!!


Fracker bro...I like your posts...let's not get into that shall we...


> These things are been accepted & said by pakistan,
> 
> 1. Ajmal Kasab is pakistani (non other terrorist was accepted as pakistani)


even Kasab wasn't until good journalism in Pakistan proved you wrong.


> 2. Some part of this attack has been made in pakistan (means some part could be in mumbai, it depends where terrorist get more information from)


this some part that was planned on your soil is good enough for us to suspect your agencies.


> 3. Pak SC release LeT leader because India couldn't give enough evidences against him.


right now our 'evidences' are hidden in the mind of this lone captured terrorist...and statements wouldn't matter to you would they?
your govt. did not give your citizen a lawyer when he asked for one.


> 4. RM is saying stop shouting and blaming job.. if you really want to have something i.e. pakistan is not helping, then come up on the table and for open talk.. which means pakistan is doing everything in his capability even banned organization, without indian proofs..


LeT is a terror organization...acknowledged by many countries...and it's leaders roams free in Pakistan.As far as the banning is concerned...that came after the UNSC unanimously passed a resolution to ban LeT also endorsed by China.


> 5. What is taking india so long in collecting proofs, are they making up or what? a year is going to pass that indians are barking around for mumbai attack, but yet no enough evidence to proof their stance.. and even fail to trail the capture terrorist, yet expecting more then that from pakistan...If you have balls to prove your points then come to open debate to proof your point.. why shouting around just for no reason..


we have access to just Ajmal Kasab...the places where they got their training, the people higher up who gave them training,etc are all in Pakistan....and your govt. is not nailing those responsible...surely you do not think that it was just these 10 blokes responsible for the mumbai carnage do you?


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## Fracker

So you proven you are indian, and will never understand... go on with your arguments.. 



> Dont know what you trained and how you trained but yeah I can see the Indian bite marks when I see the geography of South Asia



As i said before those who bark never bite, they only bark to scare, so he make something stupid i.e. run away.. It wasn't Indian bite, it was someone else.. indian barking only came in and make thing worst for pakistan. But now we have learn our lessons.. As i trained 25 so i know you need a stick (1998) to tackle one that only bark, and crush other who is looking to bite. After all both are animals, understand these two thinks..


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## gogbot

*All people want to do is fight and argue and bicker some more.
A 180 people died but all that matters is politics and who is right and who is wrong. Who ever planned the attack is happily laughing somewhere . 
Watching the eternal bickering between India and Pakistan.

both sides are to blame for this i guess, Terrorists are just simply taking advantage of the situation to plan and stage attacks in this diplomatic shamble .

An open debate on what happened at Mumbai..
very well, lest the names of the 180+ people that died at the start of the debate.
Before engaging in power politics.

It seems that the sub continent still has a long way to go. 
Before 

for 2 democracies , public safety is put behind national pride.

But still what can anyone do but make the best of the situation.

But don't mind me , you may carry on in this debate. fueling the power politics that has consumed both nations.
but can you at least list the 180 + dead names , so that you can acknowledge the mockery you make of their deaths, 
just so that all of you can force each others Anti Pakistan and anti- Indian opinions on one another.*

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## paritosh

Fracker said:


> So you proven you are indian, and will never understand... go on with your arguments..
> 
> 
> 
> As i said before those who bark never bite, they only bark to scare, so he make something stupid i.e. run away.. It wasn't Indian bite, it was someone else.. indian barking only came in and make thing worst for pakistan. But now we have learn our lessons.. As i trained 25 so i know you need a stick (1998) to tackle one that only bark, and crush other who is looking to bite. After all both are animals, understand these two thinks..



how the hell is this post not deleted?
I mean what does this mean in the context of the thread?
talking of indian barks and bites...is he writing a sub-continental Vet manual?


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## vsdoc

^^^ Seriously Bezerk bro .... my post was BS agreed and deserved the chop (needless to say it got the message across) .... but why not Fracker's gem? 

Or is a Pakistani dog bite/bark/training given preeminence here over similar Indian pursuits?

You may delete this post too but I hope you get our point .... Newton's principles.

Cheers, Doc


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## Abu Zolfiqar

paritosh said:


> that part has been sorted out...Pakistani govt. acknowledges that the attack was planned in Pakistan by Pakistanis...what is left to be seen is whether the GoP was invovled directly or not.



india also confessed that some of the logistics and other planning was carried out in india....by homegrown indians. 

Some of the attackers were indian too. 

why would GoP be involved? They wouldnt gain from such an attack. Nor would any of the state institutions.


it's better to focus on better security measures.....and also understand that Kashmir issue is still an issue of contention. We have offered on several occasions to begin dialogue on this issue, despite what happened during the bollywood attacks. But it seems india is either unwilling, scared, or in denial about acknowledging the importance of such an initiative.


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## R.A.W.

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> india also confessed that some of the logistics and other planning was carried out in india....by homegrown indians.
> 
> Some of the attackers were indian too.
> 
> why would GoP be involved? They wouldnt gain from such an attack. Nor would any of the state institutions.
> 
> 
> it's better to focus on better security measures.....and also understand that Kashmir issue is still an issue of contention. We have offered on several occasions to begin dialogue on this issue, despite what happened during the bollywood attacks. But it seems india is either unwilling, scared, or in denial about acknowledging the importance of such an initiative.



GOP can be involved on the account of following the policy of terrorism in the past. And about the gains attacking at such a place where majority are foreign nationals would give a very wrong message to the world where India would taken as the unsafe destination for business, tourism etc thus hampering the economy. India can be portrayed as a unsafe destination for the same as Pakistan is being projected in the western media.

As far as security flaw is concerned yes we accept it was a security flaw and right now you can find big guys with big guns at every location of importance within India. Security has been increased at all levels within India.

And I think you need more of security and it was much bigger intelligence failure because of number of blasts and terrorist attacks within Pakistan in past 1 year are far much more then what happened in India.

The topic has nothing to do with Kashmir. I can reply to that but it will be offtopic. 

Regarding being scared Pakistan has gained nothing on the military grounds against India in past 62 years so there is no point of getting scared.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

R.A.W. said:


> GOP can be involved on the account of following the policy of terrorism in the past.



Policy of terrorism? Who do you work for? The Hindustan Times?




> wrong message to the world where India would taken as the unsafe destination for business, tourism etc thus hampering the economy.



well there have been isolated incidents that would draw away tourists....such as the massacre of Christians in Orissa (including an australian priest). The molestation of tourists in Goa. Constant sabotage and bombings in 13 naxal affected states.

And as of recently, 200 villagers with sticks beating tourists and torching the Vedic Village 

Tourists flee attack on luxury resort in India - Telegraph



> India can be portrayed as a unsafe destination for the same as Pakistan is being projected in the western media.



media has always been unfair to Pakistan. What happens in the tribal areas has little affect for what happens in the main cities --even though those have been targetted too at times.

But either way --- maybe it's a good thing. It's put pressure on this government of ours to get their acts together and spend less time on personal vendettas.




> Security has been increased at all levels within India.



I hope so
















500 cops kill one dacoit after 3-day shootout








> And I think you need more of security and it was much bigger intelligence failure because of number of blasts and terrorist attacks within Pakistan in past 1 year are far much more then what happened in India.



we have thwarted many attacks on our soil since Rah e Rast campaign began. Just 2 days ago we busted a plot in which terrorists were trying to sabotage our oil facilities @ Karachi.


india is dealing with terrorists who use rifles and sticks. We (like Sri Lankans) dealing with suicide bombers. Once a suicide bomber is on the loose, it is difficult to stop them. That's why intelligence is very important --and in FATA the locals are cooperating with the Army in reporting suspicious peole and movements.





> Regarding being scared Pakistan has gained nothing on the military grounds against India in past 62 years so there is no point of getting scared.



succesfully defending our lands against an enemy 3 times our size is our biggest gain. 

The biggest gain is also war experience, and learning from past tactical planning/strategic mistakes. 


It is comical to think that a few cocky indian generals thought their forces would be having "whisky" at Lahore Gymkhana club 

perhaps instead they got intoxicated by the fumes of burning diesel as their mechanized armour was in flames at Chowinda/Silakot


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## R.A.W.

JERUSALEM: Israel has warned that a Pakistan-based terror outfit affiliated to al-Qaida, which carried out the 2008 Mumbai attacks, is planning
to carry out a string of terror attacks across India.

Israel's counter-terrorism bureau at the National Security Council (NSC) in a travel warning for Israeli tourists in India rated the threat as "imminent and concrete", putting special emphasis on the Jammu and Kashmir region.

"The terrorist group that carried out the serious Mumbai attack in India is planning to carry out a number of attacks across India, particularly against concentrations of Western or Israeli tourists," warned a statement from the counterterrorism unit.

The bureau has recommended Israelis currently in India to avoid crowded areas, especially tourist areas, which have no apparent armed security.

In view of potential terror attacks across the entire country, Israeli travellers have been advised to "take precautions and remain alert".

The warning comes at a time when the Chabad houses across India are planning numerous events for the celebration of Rosh Hashana, the Jewish new year. Last year's attacks in Mumbai had targeted a Chabad house, among several other targets, where six Israelis were killed.

India blames Pakistani-based Lashkar-e-Taiba for the November attacks in which 10 gunmen killed over 180 people in a three-day rampage through Mumbai.


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## XYON

R.A.W. said:


> JERUSALEM: Israel has warned that a Pakistan-based terror outfit affiliated to al-Qaida, which carried out the 2008 Mumbai attacks, is planning
> to carry out a string of terror attacks across India.
> 
> Israel's counter-terrorism bureau at the National Security Council (NSC) in a travel warning for Israeli tourists in India rated the threat as "imminent and concrete", putting special emphasis on the Jammu and Kashmir region.
> 
> "The terrorist group that carried out the serious Mumbai attack in India is planning to carry out a number of attacks across India, particularly against concentrations of Western or Israeli tourists," warned a statement from the counterterrorism unit.
> 
> The bureau has recommended Israelis currently in India to avoid crowded areas, especially tourist areas, which have no apparent armed security.
> 
> In view of potential terror attacks across the entire country, Israeli travellers have been advised to "take precautions and remain alert".
> 
> The warning comes at a time when the Chabad houses across India are planning numerous events for the celebration of Rosh Hashana, the Jewish new year. Last year's attacks in Mumbai had targeted a Chabad house, among several other targets, where six Israelis were killed.
> 
> India blames Pakistani-based Lashkar-e-Taiba for the November attacks in which 10 gunmen killed over 180 people in a three-day rampage through Mumbai.



Attack or No-Attack! The Travel Advisory is Welcome!


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## MZUBAIR

R.A.W. said:


> JERUSALEM: Israel has warned that a Pakistan-based terror outfit affiliated to al-Qaida, which carried out the 2008 Mumbai attacks, is planning
> to carry out a string of terror attacks across India.




First the mumbai attack people were local jihadi groups. They had no link with Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda is an Arab terrorist organization. I feel its a baseless argument from Israel



> Israel's counter-terrorism bureau at the National Security Council (NSC) in a travel warning for Israeli tourists in India rated the threat as "imminent and concrete", putting special emphasis on the Jammu and Kashmir region.



The more India is cruel to Muslims and Kashmiries, the more chances of attack in India. So its not a big theory. India knows that India fought 4 big battels with its neighbour only for Kashmir.

The solution is only political not the terrorism acts of Indian Army in Kashmir.



> "The terrorist group that carried out the serious Mumbai attack in India is planning to carry out a number of attacks across India, particularly against concentrations of Western or Israeli tourists," warned a statement from the counterterrorism unit.
> 
> The bureau has recommended Israelis currently in India to avoid crowded areas, especially tourist areas, which have no apparent armed security.
> 
> In view of potential terror attacks across the entire country, Israeli travellers have been advised to "take precautions and remain alert".
> 
> The warning comes at a time when the Chabad houses across India are planning numerous events for the celebration of Rosh Hashana, the Jewish new year. Last year's attacks in Mumbai had targeted a Chabad house, among several other targets, where six Israelis were killed.
> 
> India blames Pakistani-based Lashkar-e-Taiba for the November attacks in which 10 gunmen killed over 180 people in a three-day rampage through Mumbai.



I think India shld work & strengthen more on Intelligence and internal security.


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## Goodperson

MZUBAIR said:


> First the mumbai attack people were local jihadi groups. They had no link with Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda is an Arab terrorist organization. I feel its a baseless argument from Israel
> 
> 
> 
> The more India is cruel to Muslims and Kashmiries, the more chances of attack in India. So its not a big theory. India knows that India fought 4 big battels with its neighbour only for Kashmir.
> 
> The solution is only political not the terrorism acts of Indian Army in Kashmir.
> 
> 
> 
> I think India shld work & strengthen more on Intelligence and internal security.



Israeli citizens and Jewish people were also Prime Targets. Terrorist target them to show solidarity with Palestinian cause. 

Israeli intelligence and concern for its citizens and Jewish people is Justified as quite a few of them were killed ruthlessly in Mumbai attacks . 

Israel would naturally share any such intelligence with India we all know the source of so called stateless actors we should all strive to weed them out.

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## R.A.W.

Goodperson said:


> Israeli citizens and Jewish people were also Prime Targets. Terrorist target them to show solidarity with Palestinian cause.
> 
> Israeli intelligence and concern for its citizens and Jewish people is Justified.
> 
> India knows the source of terrorists it should strive to weed out them.



And article points to the organization which has links with Al-Queda not Al Queda itself.


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## Beskar

Dear Israel:

Can we borrow your magic eight ball?

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## Spring Onion

Oh so it means Isreal completed the planing

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## hembo

*Qaeda-backed LeT set for series of terror attacks in India, warns Israels NSC*
September 18th, 2009 SindhToday

Tel Aviv, Sep.18 (ANI): Israels National Security Councils Counter-Terrorism Bureau has issued a terror warning for India, saying a Pakistani terror group, having close links with Al-Qaeda, is planning to carry out series of strikes across the country.

A Pakistani terror organization affiliated with al-Qaida and responsible for the attacks in Mumbai last year is planning to carry out a string of attacks throughout the Indian subcontinent, the notice issued by the bureau stated.

The warning said that though foreigners, especially from western countries could be targeted, and that Israelis and places where Israelis usually assemble in large numbers are on top of the terror outfits hit list.

The bureau rated the threat as imminent and concrete and emphasized on the Jammu and Kashmir region, The Jerusalem Post reported.

This is probably the first time that such a warning has been issued regarding threat to Israelis in India, as India is considered a friendly country with thousands of Israelis living in different part of the nation. (ANI)

[NF]


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## FireFighter

Source of this article please?



If its true then I'd have to wonder why Israel is only concerned about innocents dying in India as opposed to having no feelings for the people of kashmir being slaughtered by the Indian military machine.


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## Skywalker

HI ray chotay bhai ki barey bhai kay liyye fikermandi. lakin lagta hai chota bhai asal mein bara bhai hai.


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## blueoval79

FireFighter said:


> If its true then I'd have to wonder why Israel is only concerned about innocents dying in India as opposed to having no feelings for the people of kashmir being slaughtered by the Indian military machine.



Terrorists infiltrating ....across LOC should be killed....why only blame India army... Pakistan army is also doing the same thing in SWAT.....is your terrorist different from our terrorists....

And why should Israeli bother about what Pakistanis have to think.....
Meaningless rant...just to throw the thread off topic...

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## Beskar

*Threads Merged.*


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## Developereo

It's a travel advisory by Israel to its citizens.

Has any other country echoed the concerns? If not, I wouldn't worry about it.


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## bandit

Good thing that Israel is co-operating more with India now, its been the victim of the same sort of terrorism that we've had to endure. We can use their help given their extensive experience in this field. 

*HI ray chotay bhai ki barey bhai kay liyye fikermandi. lakin lagta hai chota bhai asal mein bara bhai hai. *

It is better to be envied than pitied.

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## salman nedian

bandit said:


> *HI ray chotay bhai ki barey bhai kay liyye fikermandi. lakin lagta hai chota bhai asal mein bara bhai hai. *



Hi ray chotay shaitan ki barey kay liyye fikermandi.


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## R.A.W.

salman nedian said:


> Hi ray chotay shaitan ki barey kay liyye fikermandi.



Kya karain padosi bahut pareshan karte hain bhaiyo ko chita to hogi hi......

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## Spring Onion

hembo said:


> *Qaeda-backed LeT set for series of terror attacks in India, warns Israels NSC*
> September 18th, 2009 SindhToday
> 
> Tel Aviv, Sep.18 (ANI): Israels National Security Councils Counter-Terrorism Bureau has issued a terror warning for India, saying a Pakistani terror group, having close links with Al-Qaeda, is planning to carry out series of strikes across the country.
> 
> A Pakistani terror organization affiliated with al-Qaida and responsible for the attacks in Mumbai last year is planning to carry out a string of attacks throughout the Indian subcontinent, the notice issued by the bureau stated.
> 
> The warning said that though foreigners, especially from western countries could be targeted, and that Israelis and places where Israelis usually assemble in large numbers are on top of the terror outfits hit list.
> 
> The bureau rated the threat as imminent and concrete and emphasized on the Jammu and Kashmir region, The Jerusalem Post reported.
> 
> This is probably the first time that such a warning has been issued regarding threat to Israelis in India, as India is considered a friendly country with thousands of Israelis living in different part of the nation. (ANI)
> 
> [NF]




The Indian orange media is once again at it. Where in the advisory note Israel mentioned LeT???????????????

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## bandit

*&#8220;A Pakistani terror organization affiliated with al-Qaida and responsible for the attacks in Mumbai last year is planning to carry out a string of attacks throughout the Indian subcontinent,&#8221; the notice issued by the bureau stated.*

Now did you just wake up or what.?


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## Spring Onion

bandit said:


> *A Pakistani terror organization affiliated with al-Qaida and responsible for the attacks in Mumbai last year is planning to carry out a string of attacks throughout the Indian subcontinent, the notice issued by the bureau stated.*
> 
> Now did you just wake up or what.?



Lolzz, there is no proof it was carried out by LeT.

Above all LeT had never been linked to al-qaeda.

If anyone that is linked and supported by al-qaeda in Pakistan it is anti-Pakistan terrorist group TTP and Laskhar-e-Jhangvi which is anti-Pakistan

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## XYON

To me it seems that INDIA with help of its Israeli buddies is planning to conduct another Mumbai-Style attack within and then blame it on, LET, TTP, ABC, EFG, located in Pakistan. Maybe desperate times (India getting no action or international support on so-called Mumbai attacks from International community) calls for desperate measures (coordinating a Mumbai styled, multiple locations killing spree by RAW within India).

The Lala is good in springing traps, but we are better in knowing the Lala well!


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## bandit

Jana said:


> Lolzz, there is no proof it was carried out by LeT.
> 
> Above all LeT had never been linked to al-qaeda.
> 
> If anyone that is linked and supported by al-qaeda in Pakistan it is anti-Pakistan terrorist group TTP and Laskhar-e-Jhangvi which is anti-Pakistan



Britain?s MPs see Let behind Mumbai attack- Hindustan Times


> Holding the LeT responsible for last year's Mumbai attacks, a British Parliamentary committee on Sunday said several major terror attacks across the world, including in London, Madrid and Bali, had origins in the tribal areas of Pakistan.
> 
> A report by the powerful Foreign Affairs Committee quoted a former CIA chief as saying that Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Toiba, blamed by India for attacks on its soil including on Mumbai, has reached a "merge point" with al-Qaeda.
> 
> It said: "The LeT group, which was responsible for the November 2008 Mumbai attacks which targeted Westerns, in particular US and UK nationals, also operates from Pakistans tribal areas. The former head of the CIA, Michael Hayden, claimed earlier this year that LeT had reached a 'merge point' with al Qaeda."




Answers both your doubts


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## EjazR

Jana said:


> Lolzz, there is no proof it was carried out by LeT.
> 
> Above all LeT had never been linked to al-qaeda.
> 
> If anyone that is linked and supported by al-qaeda in Pakistan it is anti-Pakistan terrorist group TTP and Laskhar-e-Jhangvi which is anti-Pakistan



Jana, Zakiur rehman lakhvi the "alleged" mastermind is under trial by a Pakistani court and is founder of LeT. Moreover, Ilyas Kashmiri a senior commander of another Kahsmiri militant outfit HuJI was killed just recently and was behind plots to kill Musharraf after he cracked down on them.
Pakistani Kashmiri militants now fighting NATO forces - Middle East Transparent

If you think that Kashmiri militatn groups will not join hands with TTP/Al Qaeda to wreck havoc in Pakistan. You are mistaken cause they are already doing that. 

Don't you see this is why they would plan 26/11 and more attacks in India. To increase animosity so that they have support again from the GoP.
The need of the hour is to sever all connections with these types of groups.


Coming back to the topic, I think it was a stupid thing to do from the Israeli govt. They already had a travel advisory on India, why did they have to repeat another one and sensationalize it.
Seems similar to the Bush regime that used the "terror threat indicator" and kept coming out with alert warnings. The Indian security services has to be extremely vigilant and ofcourse they are on the lookout for more attacks. No need for Israel to stick its nose in this matter.


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## ek_indian

XYON said:


> To me it seems that INDIA with help of its Israeli buddies is planning to conduct another Mumbai-Style attack within and then blame it on, LET, TTP, ABC, EFG, located in Pakistan.!



I think another conspiracy theory is getting created now. TTP was not related to this thread...It was proved beyond doubt that LeT was behing Mumbai attack. There are several proofs for these. Please see the link for now. I can post a lot of them 

Lashkar-e-Taiba operatives directly linked to Mumbai - The Long War Journal



XYON said:


> Maybe desperate times (India getting no action or international support on so-called Mumbai attacks from International community) calls for desperate measures (coordinating a Mumbai styled, multiple locations killing spree by RAW within India).



Phew...Kindly explain us what type of "_desperate time_" we are going through. Every country supported us during the attack. Just use internet to check the response of international community. You could find many on net. 
And I did not know that RAW is funding the LeT as well.  Seriously man.



XYON said:


> The Lala is good in springing traps, but we are better in knowing the Lala well!



My brain is not intelligent enough to understand the rant.

@topic:
I think we should focus more on our own security establishment rahther than blaming militents. After all they are _non-state actors_. Indian government is taking/has taken some steps but more is required.


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## Enigma SIG

bandit said:


> Good thing that Israel is co-operating more with India now, *its been the victim of the same sort of terrorism that we've had to endure.* We can use their help given their extensive experience in this field.



Now thats a new height of anti-muslim bias. Israel is occupying palestinian land and kills them like sheep; what do you expect the palestinians to do; churiyan pehan k beth jaein?
If only the poor gaza people had nukes israel would be soiling its pants.

What can i say other than: Deaf dumb and blind...


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## R.A.W.

Imran2006g said:


> Now thats a new height of anti-muslim bias. Israel is occupying palestinian land and kills them like sheep; what do you expect the palestinians to do; churiyan pehan k beth jaein?
> If only the poor gaza people had nukes israel would be soiling its pants.
> 
> What can i say other than: Deaf dumb and blind...



Ok I accept that Israel is involved with autocracies against Palestine but does it justifies the kid who got orphan in Mumbai 26/11. Does it justifies the killing of jews on the same ground.


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## Goodperson

Developereo said:


> It's a travel advisory by Israel to its citizens.
> 
> Has any other country echoed the concerns? If not, I wouldn't worry about it.



There was no travel advisory during Mumbai attacks. India being a victim is still being asked for more evidences from some stakeholders and some stakeholders provide proactive warnings.


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## Enigma SIG

R.A.W. said:


> Ok I accept that Israel is involved with autocracies against Palestine but *does it justifies the kid who got orphan in Mumbai 26/11. Does it justifies the killing of jews on the same ground.*



I am against killing of innocents by anyone; be it a muslim (by name only; because a muslim is one from whos actions others are safe).
Believe it or not; i was sitting with my indian friends when the mumbai event happened; i shared their sorrows as a few of them were from the immediate locality and understood the anger and resentment they had.

But to implicate a whole nation as harbourers of terrorism is just blind hate. India never sees the progressive Pakistan; because your media just thrusts anti-pakistan propaganda down your throat. You just see the reactions; no body questions the action due to which the reaction took place.

You may well implicate all palestinians as terrorists; doesn't take away from the fact that the boy who has lost his father in bombing raids by israel will grow up with vengeance and nothing but hatred for israel and its people who continuously subdue the palestinians and keep them as cattle in the worlds largest prison.
Thankfully Hezbollah dealt a crushing blow to Israel who was drunk with power.


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## bandit

Imran2006g said:


> Now thats a new height of anti-muslim bias. Israel is occupying palestinian land and kills them like sheep; what do you expect the palestinians to do; churiyan pehan k beth jaein?
> If only the poor gaza people had nukes israel would be soiling its pants.
> 
> What can i say other than: Deaf dumb and blind...



Same sort of terrorism means terror targeted against civilians, now where did anti-muslim bias or palestine come there. 
Instead you seem to be so anti-Israel that you come out shooting out ther same crap against Israel.

Muslims got killed in Mumbai too, these terrorist bastards dont ask before they shoot. Any help by Israel saves lives in India includes muslim lives as well.

Go froth about Israel on someplace related.


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## Machoman

> Israel fears more Mumbai-like attacks in India soon



"Begaani shaadi may Abdullah diwana" lol

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## R.A.W.

Machoman said:


> "Begaani shaadi may Abdullah diwana" lol



Suna hai begani shadi main nikah padne wale kaazi ko aaj fir pakad liya tum logo ne abdhullah k pressure main


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## Goodperson

Machoman said:


> "Begaani shaadi may Abdullah diwana" lol



Who is Abdulla India has lot of Jewish people Israelis. Few of them were ruthlessly killed by terrorist is Mumbai attacks.


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## Sinnerman108

Israel is interested in subcontinent !
this is what happens when you dont keep them engaged in their own region.
they start to finger around else where ...

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## Enigma SIG

bandit said:


> Muslims got killed in Mumbai too, these terrorist bastards dont ask before they shoot. *Any help by Israel saves lives in India includes muslim lives as well.*



Like they give a ****  and israelis dont see before they drop bombs; destroying whatever comes in their way even children and women. (im getting ready for a human shield response )
On one hand they save indians; on the other they bombard poor people of gaza with phosphrous bombs.


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## R.A.W.

Imran2006g said:


> Like they give a ****  and israelis dont see before they drop bombs; destroying whatever comes in their way even children and women. (im getting ready for a human shield response )
> On one hand they save indians; on the other they bombard poor people of gaza with phosphrous bombs.



When a shot is being fired from a home with kids inside do you think one would peek into the house, clear it first and then the kill the person firing at him. The structure of Palestine is very much like that when people offend they have kids also in the nearby location.

PS: I am not justifying the killing of innocent people either. But this is how majority mind it majority of killing happens in Palestine.


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## H2O3C4Nitrogen

we cant afford another conspiracy  atleast not for the people of both countries. Too bad the reagion has become the hotspot for international proxies and games. Only local people will suffer neither in telaviv nor in the washington would .


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## R.A.W.

H2O3C4Nitrogen said:


> we cant afford another conspiracy  atleast not for the people of both countries. Too bad the reagion has become the hotspot for international proxies and games. Only local people will suffer neither in telaviv nor in the washington would .



Then better dismantle the terror groups across the LOC and stop cross border infiltration on the name of freedom fighters.... Lets live in peace.


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## graphican

Yoo Baby... A Wonderful Opportunity for Israel to dig its burrows in Jammu and Kahmir and help India against any uprising of Kashmirs and this is what we can say "imminent and concrete".

Fear is the best tool that Zionists have been using to make the world fool. Allah has mentioned that the one who tries to make others fool makes no one but himself fool. Americans thought they could prove 9/11 terrorist attack and so did Indians using 26/11. I think India is a little too desperate to step Subs and other arms sale to Pakistan and they need few 26/11s for sure. 

If something like that happens, just watch closely who is the beneficiary of these attacks. In the case of 9/11, it was America and in the case of 26/11, it was India. Don't expect future beneficiary of such terrorists attacks to be somebody different.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

I'm sure that Mossad will try to use bollywood attacks as a reason to get involved in South Asian affairs.

Of course they will arm and hype up the 'terrorism' topic the way they have against Iran, Syria, Lebanon etc. That helps them sell their arms.

israelis know that we help arm the Armed Forces of some of their former and present foes. They also know that it was our pilots who shot down some of their aircrafts in 67 and 73. 

While I have no doubt that counter terrorism is in everyone's interest, i have no doubt that israel would want to use the situation to arm a country like india against a (Muslim) country with a huge army and nuclear weapons stockpile.

I wouldnt be too worried about israel though. They are a tiny country, and represent no real threat to us. The americans need us, therefore they will make sure that their client states will be kept on a leash and wont annoy us.

and we already know as for israel, who is the real terrorist. Them, who kill civilians and disobey international demands to stop building illegal settlements; or Palestinians who have stones.


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## H2O3C4Nitrogen

> Then better dismantle the terror groups across the LOC and stop cross border infiltration on the name of freedom fighters.... Lets live in peace.



Would be done as soon as the BLA's operations in Balochistan are dismanteled .

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## bandit

graphican said:


> If something like that happens, just watch closely who is the beneficiary of these attacks. *In the case of 9/11, it was America and in the case of 26/11, it was India. Don't expect future beneficiary of such terrorists attacks to be somebody different*.



.


> Allah has mentioned that the one who tries to make others fool makes fool himself.
> .



And the guy answers himself.


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## Machoman

> Suna hai begani shadi main nikah padne wale kaazi ko aaj fir pakad liya tum logo ne abdhullah k pressure main


 is it really funny? hmm I don't think so. but oh well I will just for your sake at least smile


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## bandit

Imran2006g said:


> Like they give a ****  and israelis dont see before they drop bombs; destroying whatever comes in their way even children and women. (im getting ready for a human shield response )
> On one hand they save indians; on the other they bombard poor people of gaza with phosphrous bombs.



As I told you previously, go and froth about it somewhere else, this thread is not about palestine. Who cares what they care or not, our citizens get saved thats all *we* care about.


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## R.A.W.

graphican said:


> Yoo Baby... A Wonderful Opportunity for Israel to dig its burrows in Jammu and Kahmir and help India against any uprising of Kashmirs and this is what we can say "imminent and concrete".
> 
> Fear is the best tool that Zionists have been using to make the world fool. Allah has mentioned that the one who tries to make others fool makes no one but himself fool. Americans thought they could prove 9/11 terrorist attack and so did Indians using 26/11. I think India is a little too desperate to step Subs and other arms sale to Pakistan and they need few 26/11s for sure.
> 
> If something like that happens, just watch closely who is the beneficiary of these attacks. In the case of 9/11, it was America and in the case of 26/11, it was India. Don't expect future beneficiary of such terrorists attacks to be somebody different.



Can you please explain in what terms India is benificiary with 26/11 attacks. What have we got materialistically out of it.

And can you provide any creditable link for what ever trash you just said.

I think we need to repeat. Kasab is a Pakistani national accepted by Pakistan. Organizations within Pakistan are banned for terrorism within India. 

And do not worry India has enough funds to go further subs and it does not need to care for that as people are ready to sell whatever India wants.

This post has nothing to do with Kashmir. Anyways any terrorist uprising which is a threat to Indian federation would be dealt with force with or without Israeli support.


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## Machoman

Why Indian walay abhi tuk Mumbai attack ko ro rahi hain. Pakistan never cry that long for whatever happened in Sumjhota express. It is time now for India to move on and make good relationship with Pakistan and other neighboring countries. It does not mean that I am supporting the 26/11. But I am saying move on guys har wakat ka rona is not good you know.


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## R.A.W.

Machoman said:


> Why Indian walay abhi tuk Mumbai attack ko ro rahi hain. Pakistan never cry that long for whatever happened in Sumjhota express. It is time now for India to move on and make good relationship with Pakistan and other neighboring countries. It does not mean that I am supporting the 26/11. But I am saying move on guys har wakat ka rona is not good you know.



Just because we let it go one time it will come back again in some form shape or size. Enough is enough. We have seen enough. Now this time it is now or never......

If you want good relations destroy the terror camps aimed at India and give your hand to us. We promise you hum hath hi nahi milayenge hum gale se bhi lagayenge.


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## R.A.W.

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> I'm sure that Mossad will try to use bollywood attacks as a reason to get involved in South Asian affairs.
> 
> Of course they will arm and hype up the 'terrorism' topic the way they have against Iran, Syria, Lebanon etc. That helps them sell their arms.
> 
> israelis know that we help arm the Armed Forces of some of their former and present foes. They also know that it was our pilots who shot down some of their aircrafts in 67 and 73.
> 
> While I have no doubt that counter terrorism is in everyone's interest, i have no doubt that israel would want to use the situation to arm a country like india against a (Muslim) country with a huge army and nuclear weapons stockpile.
> 
> I wouldnt be too worried about israel though. They are a tiny country, and represent no real threat to us. The americans need us, therefore they will make sure that their client states will be kept on a leash and wont annoy us.
> 
> and we already know as for israel, who is the real terrorist. Them, who kill civilians and disobey international demands to stop building illegal settlements; or Palestinians who have stones.



Can you please explain what exactly is a bollywood attack?


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## Abu Zolfiqar

oh pardon me.......moom-bai


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## Machoman

Why you guys always think -ve about Pakistan that they are the one who is supporting terror camp. What we will gain nothing, don't you think their might be other people who never want Pakistan and India's good realationship. 
But the problem is that indian always think Pakistan is their enemy that proves because even anything happend in India without even any invetigation you guys start pointing on Pakistan.


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## R.A.W.

Machoman said:


> Why you guys always think -ve about Pakistan that they are the one who is supporting terror camp. What we will gain nothing, don't you think their might be other people who never want Pakistan and India's good realationship.



We also want good relations with Pakistan. We also want peace but how is it possible in these circumstances in place. There is infiltration in the Kashmir sector every third day. LeT operatives are caught before independence day. How can we let the things go by.............

We would be delighted if Pakistan progresses....... Any turnmoil Pakistan impacts us in the same way as Pakistan is impacted with Pakistan. Indians dont hate Pakistan we just love India. No one is against Pakistan


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## Developereo

Like I said, this is just anti-Pakistan tag-teaming by India and Israel.

The Indian PM got foot-in-mouth disease a few weeks ago when he babbled some crap about impending terrorist attacks, so this time the Israelis are doing him a favor by drumming up another scare.

In any case, better wake up the Indian security guys. Make sure they are not sleeping like last time.



bandit said:


> Go froth about Israel on someplace related.



You compared your situation to Israel, so be prepared for the fallout.



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> i have no doubt that israel would want to use the situation to arm a country like india against a (Muslim) country with a huge army and nuclear weapons stockpile.



Israel already claims to be India's largest arms supplier.


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## R.A.W.

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> oh pardon me.......moom-bai



there is no place called moom-bai in India just like there is no place in Pakistan as peshaw-ar


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## Abu Zolfiqar

no big deal. Let them arm the indians. indian defence industry has too much paperwork and many delays and hurdles. Cant blame them for relying on a country like israel


as for india --- everyone wants good relations with their neighbours. But the climate hasnt been right lately. We extended our hand and offered cooperation, but it seems indian prefer to be brainwashed by their sensationalist media. Therefore, peace efforts seem to be on back-burner. We dont need to be friends with indian, we just need to make sure both sides arent sabotaging eachother.


the main issue is Kashmir. And our position on Kashmir matter is still the same. Let them seek self-determination.


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## Machoman

> We also want good relations with Pakistan. We also want peace but how is it possible in these circumstances in place. There is infiltration in the Kashmir sector every third day. LeT operatives are caught before independence day. How can we let the things go by.............



I think all because of your lazy security problem. If your force would pay little more attention, 26/11 never happened. Bunch of P!@# officer hide when Kasab came to railway station. Why not shoot that bastard right on the spot when they first see him. So many innocent people died just because of your police. I think they are evenly responsible for people who died on railway station as A!@ hole Kasab is.


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## R.A.W.

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> no big deal. Let them arm the indians. indian defence industry has too much paperwork and many delays and hurdles. Cant blame them for relying on a country like israel
> 
> 
> as for india --- everyone wants good relations with their neighbours. But the climate hasnt been right lately. We extended our hand and offered cooperation, but it seems indian prefer to be brainwashed by their sensationalist media. Therefore, peace efforts seem to be on back-burner. We dont need to be friends with indian, we just need to make sure both sides arent sabotaging eachother.
> 
> 
> the main issue is Kashmir. And our position on Kashmir matter is still the same. Let them seek self-determination.



Till the Pakistan takes the creditable action against the perpetrators Indians are least interested in bilateral relationships.

As far as Kashmir is concerned Indian stand will also remain same with 3/4 Kashmir with India for past 62 years and a state of Indian republic.


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## R.A.W.

Machoman said:


> I think all because of your lazy security problem. If your force would pay little more attention, 26/11 never happened. Bunch of P!@# officer hide when Kasab came to railway station. Why not shoot that bastard right on the spot when they first see him. So many innocent people died just because of your police. I think they are evenly responsible for people who died on railway station as A!@ hole Kasab is.



Definitely there was a security breach. And security has been beefed up after the same. The officials were not armed enough to take on people armed with automatic weapons. though the policeman tried to take on with them with their rifles unsuccessfully. Police force is not equipped with weapons to take on such a assault. Such an operation was well planned with security in mind.


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## Developereo

R.A.W. said:


> Can you please explain in what terms India is benificiary with 26/11 attacks.





Machoman said:


> Why Indian walay abhi tuk Mumbai attack ko ro rahi hain.



Over 2000 years ago, the Roman lawyer Cicero asked the critical question in any crime investigation, _cui bono_? Who benefits from this crime?

The Mumbai affair has been fraught with unanswered questions, foot dragging by Indian authorities, and various inconsistencies. There is every reason to suspect that Mumbai attacks were aided, if not orchestrated, by RAW. India has tried to milk maximum international sympathy out of it. It has tried to paint it as its 9/11, even going as far as calling it 26/11, to make it seem like 9/11.

Pakistan has no motive and gets no benefit from the Mumbai tragedy.

_cui bono_, indeed?


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## Machoman

> though the policeman tried to take on with them with their rifles unsuccessfully.



So if I start thinking like Indians then I can say that your police was involved into this attack and thats why they make all sorts of excuse not to fire at him! what do you say about that?


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## Goodperson

Developereo said:


> Like I said, this is just anti-Pakistan tag-teaming by India and Israel.
> 
> The Indian PM got foot-in-mouth disease a few weeks ago when he babbled some crap about impending terrorist attacks, so this time the Israelis are doing him a favor by drumming up another scare.
> 
> In any case, better wake up the Indian security guys. Make sure they are not sleeping like last time.
> 
> 
> 
> You compared your situation to Israel, so be prepared for the fallout.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel already claims to be India's largest arms supplier.



Anyway why it should bother Pakistan its innocents were not killed I mean only some stateless actors were killed in action.


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## R.A.W.

Developereo said:


> Over 2000 years ago, the Roman lawyer Cicero asked the critical question in any crime investigation, cui bono? Who benefits from this crime?
> 
> The Mumbai affair has been fraught with unanswered questions, foot dragging by Indian authorities, and various inconsistencies. There is every reason to suspect that Mumbai attacks were aided, if not orchestrated, by RAW. India has tried to milk maximum international sympathy out of it. It has tried to paint it as its 9/11, even going as far as calling it 26/11, to make it seem like 9/11.
> 
> cui bono, indeed?



So what do we gain from international sympathy?

By the way can you provide any creditable proof for it or counter it against the UN and other world organizations against the conviction. Was Kasab not accepted as your national? or are you still in the myth of he being Amar Singh from Nepal on the basis of his looks are not Pakistani (though he does not look nepali either)


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## R.A.W.

Machoman said:


> So if I start thinking like Indians then I can say that your police was involved into this attack and thats why they make all sorts of excuse not to fire at him! what do you say about that?



They actually fired at him if you would have known and they got injured also.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

R.A.W. said:


> Till the Pakistan takes the creditable action against the perpetrators Indians are least interested in bilateral relationships.
> 
> As far as Kashmir is concerned Indian stand will also remain same with 3/4 Kashmir with India for past 62 years and a state of Indian republic.



3/4?? 


state of indian republic my arse. Look no farther than Sri Nagar, buddy. The locals hate the indian army and want nothing to do with india. And that's only Sri Nagar.

Pakistan will do what it deems fit. We dont need or rely on warm relations with hindustan. As long as their interests don't conflict with ours, then all is fine. If india wants mumbai-like incidents not to occur again, they should actually start caring about the 'backwards' down-trodden people who would be willing to accept rupees in exchange for selling out their country.

Mumbai attack had the help of many homegrown indians. Similar to Malegoun and Shamjota Express blasts (the latter in which Pakistani civilians were brutally killed)


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## graphican

Jana said:


> Oh so it means Isreal completed the planing



Don't over expect, it only means it will be a duo. Indian BS added with Israeli BS

(BS + BS) = 2BS 

So this time you can expect allegations of Two Hafiz Saeed*s* behind terrorist attacks. 

By the way this could also be read as: 2 bull$hit 2 be true.


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## Machoman

may be you heard this term " Zakmi sheer is more dangerous then no injured" How come police injured him and let him go? My point here is not to blame on your security but to let you know how easily I can say that you police was involved into this. 
My main point is you guys are doing the same thing for blaming each Pakistani for 26/11 attack. Ilzaam lagana bohat asaan hai proof dena mushkil. So think before start pointing on some before investigate. Simple!


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## R.A.W.

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> 3/4??
> 
> 
> state of indian republic my arse. Look no farther than Sri Nagar, buddy. The locals hate the indian army and want nothing to do with india. And that's only Sri Nagar.
> 
> Pakistan will do what it deems fit. We dont need or rely on warm relations with hindustan. As long as their interests don't conflict with ours, then all is fine. If india wants mumbai-like incidents not to occur again, they should actually start caring about the 'backwards' down-trodden people who would be willing to accept rupees in exchange for selling out their country.
> 
> Mumbai attack had the help of many homegrown indians. Similar to Malegoun and Shamjota Express blasts (the latter in which Pakistani civilians were brutally killed)



Why are you getting so frustrated man.... Check the world map.


Well it is Indian state where Indian public chooses the government. Denial is not bliss. It is taken as Indian state and yes please check the world map and then ask your arse to get some reality check. Oh wait let me attach it for you where you can see Kashmir. 



And you do not need to tell us what we have to do *when you yourself has admitted that the sole survivng terrorist was from Pakistan.*


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## R.A.W.

Machoman said:


> may be you heard this term " Zakmi sheer is more dangerous then no injured" How come police injured him and let him go? My point here is not to blame on your security but to let you know how easily I can say that you police was involved into this.
> My main point is you guys are doing the same thing for blaming each Pakistani for 26/11 attack. Ilzaam lagana bohat asaan hai proof dena mushkil. So think before start pointing on some before investigate. Simple!



Well the world and UN has accepted the same proofs as creditable and banned organizations. It is the denial mode on the part of Pakistan to deny the same.

Wait and watch soon these will also become creditable in the same way as Kasab was not your national initially and suddenly he spoofed up to be your national.


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## graphican

bandit said:


> .
> 
> And the guy answers himself.



My friend, go ask your chemistry and physics 10th grade teacher to explain you if at 1200 degree centigrade, a 757 jet with all of its passengers and two turbo fan engines got evaporated and yet DNAs of all the passengers that gets destroyed at above 300 degrees remained intact. You need to have 1/4th of intellect to reach conclusions but I guess you are born will full brain. 
Being Indian don't mean you stop accepting realities and denying faction on ground. 

You love Russia? read the statement of Russian Prime Minster about 9/11 for the sake of enlightenment.


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## Developereo

R.A.W. said:


> So what do we gain from international sympathy?
> 
> By the way can you provide any creditable proof for it or counter it against the UN and other world organizations against the conviction. Was Kasab not accepted as your national? or are you still in the myth of he being Amar Singh from Nepal on the basis of his looks are not Pakistani (though he does not look nepali either)



No, he could well be a Pakistani man.

If ISI can recruit agents within India, surely RAW can recruit agents within Pakistan.

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## Goodperson

Machoman said:


> So if I start thinking like Indians then I can say that your police was involved into this attack and thats why they make all sorts of excuse not to fire at him! what do you say about that?



AFAIK Qasab got injured by police firing and the police man who caught him is dead he dropped his AK47 in scuffle. Hence police were able to catch him Qasab also got good thrashing from public ( The mobile clip was in circulation earlier).

Catching Qasab was very important Pakistan had to accept he was its citizen though later he was labled as stateless actor and was refused counselor/legal access.

This all happened in Media glare.


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## R.A.W.

Developereo said:


> No, he could well be a Pakistani man.
> 
> If ISI can recruit agents within India, surely RAW can recruit agents within Pakistan.



Give this theory in UN........ They would love to listen and take the action if you proved it correct.


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## Enigma SIG

bandit said:


> As I told you previously, go and froth about it somewhere else, this thread is not about palestine. Who cares what they care or not, our citizens get saved thats all *we* care about.



oh the champions of humanity cannot condemn the israeli actions...
kya munafiqat hai bhai 
we care about us indians; baqi dunya pande me ware


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## R.A.W.

Imran2006g said:


> oh the champions of humanity cannot condemn the israeli actions...
> kya munafiqat hai bhai
> we care about us indians; baqi dunya pande me ware



because we are not a nation where people are more concerned about other place when our home is getting blasts. We had been on peace missions as a part of UN also but Indian security is prime. Anyways Palestine has nothing to do with this thread. If you wanna have discussion on Palestine and Indian relationship we can have a separate thread for that. By the way Indians have also maintained good relation with Palestine also in the past.


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## Enigma SIG

R.A.W. said:


> because we are not a nation where people are more concerned about other place when our home is getting blasts. *We had been on peace missions as a part of UN* also but Indian security is prime. Anyways Palestine has nothing to do with this thread. If you wanna have discussion on Palestine and Indian relationship we can have a separate thread for that. By the way Indians have also maintained good relation with Palestine also in the past.



Then you must know Pakistan (aka the hub of terror) is the largest contributor to peace missions in the UN.
Palestine was brought up because someone equated them as terrorists.
Quit the victim mentality; India doesn't has its hands clean; we Pakistanis admit the mistakes by our previous governments; *have the balls to do the same*.


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## graphican

R.A.W. said:


> Can you please explain in what terms India is benificiary with 26/11 attacks. What have we got materialistically out of it.
> 
> And can you provide any creditable link for what ever trash you just said.



1 - Obama Administration has been talking of Kashmir and its settlement which is vital for their regional Interests. with Mumbai attacks India got an excuse to stop all kinds of talks with Pakistan including over Jamu and Kashmir. 

2 - Hindu Terrorists Organization, RSS was getting exposed and Kurkere was close to bust their game plans, no wonder he and 2 other officers of his team got killed within 15 minutes of attack. This wasn't the primal reason of attacks but this gave RSS an opportunity to clear themselves. 

3 - Uprising in Kashmir and increasing activities of Freedom Fighters were a direct concern for India. India who has never been able to declare Jamat-ud-Dawa as terrorist organization got abandoned internationally and by Pakistan and some huge attack like this one was a requirement. 

4 - Israeli soldiers and their secret house was specially made part of these Mumbai Attacks. As we can see again in this very thread that Israel is loving to be part of this India - Pakistan conflict. After Iran, if Israel needs to sideline some country, that is Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Let me ask you the same question: can you explain how Pakistan is any beneficiary of these terrorist attacks?



R.A.W. said:


> I think we need to repeat. Kasab is a Pakistani national accepted by Pakistan. Organizations within Pakistan are banned for terrorism within India.



This is not the first time when some "irrefutable" evidence is provided by India about attacks by Pakistani Jihadis. Remember Attacks on Indian Parliment? Remember Attacks on Sikhs in Kashmir before the arrival of Bill Clinton? This time again, the terrorist is "Pakistani". Pakistan government was under immense pressure by the US and world that Pakistani Leaders accepted him to be a Pakistani. India hasn't been able to provide any concrete evidence on this regard and people in Pakistan do not believe that Qasab is Pakistani. 



R.A.W. said:


> And do not worry India has enough funds to go further subs and it does not need to care for that as people are ready to sell whatever India wants.



Had India been cool with Pakistan's Arms Purchases, it wouldn't have jumped up down hurting its back in the end. India seriously opposed Arms Sales to Pakistan and also tried to make an issue of P3C Orion and Modification of Harpoon Missiles. India still had enough funds the moment they were showing their "class" only couple of weeks back. 



R.A.W. said:


> This post has nothing to do with Kashmir. Anyways any terrorist uprising which is a threat to Indian federation would be dealt with force with or without Israeli support.



Of course India would try to every movement of Independence and your determination is reflecting you would love to accept Israeli helping hand in such scenarios. We do not differ here.. we only differ on the issue of "Threats" being real or "Drama" as usual.


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## Developereo

R.A.W. said:


> Give this theory in UN........ They would love to listen and take the action if you proved it correct.



I just find it intriguing that all the other terrorists fought to the death, but this guy gave up.

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## R.A.W.

*1 - Obama Administration has been talking of Kashmir and its settlement which is vital for their regional Interests. with Mumbai attacks India got an excuse to stop all kinds of talks with Pakistan including over Jamu and Kashmir.

2 - Hindu Terrorists Organization, RSS was getting exposed and Kurkere was close to bust their game plans, no wonder he and 2 other officers of his team got killed within 15 minutes of attack. This wasn't the primal reason of attacks but this gave RSS an opportunity to clear themselves.

3 - Uprising in Kashmir and increasing activities of Freedom Fighters were a direct concern for India. India who has never been able to declare Jamat-ud-Dawa as terrorist organization got abandoned internationally and by Pakistan and some huge attack like this one a requirement.

4 - Israeli soldiers and their secret house was specially made part of these Mumbai Attacks. As we can see again in this very thread that Israel is loving to be part of this India - Pakistan conflict. After Iran, if Israel needs to sideline some country, that is Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Let me ask you the same question: can you explain how Pakistan is any beneficiary of these terrorist attacks?*

Talks will be resumed as soon as Pakistan gets the job done. So it can be just delayed not solved forever with this. If Pakistan executes them tomorrow talks will follow. So it can be taken either way that Pakistan is delaying it so that talks cannot be started.

The government in power is Congress and RSS is related to BJP if you have that idea. And no investigations have stopped after that and the conviction is still on. Neither of the cases are in the cold back. If you are following the Indians news then you can see the same thing coming up now and then.

If Jamat ul Dawa is responsible for unrest in Kashmir then it deserves to be banned either way being involved in 26/11 or not.

Israelis have been with Indians for long. And as the Israeli nationals were involved they are actively involved with that. India holds good relations with Israel so what is the point if they are helping us with everything. If we have a common enemy what is wrong with that. If Israel is arming us you are also getting armed from China.

Now coming to advantages to Pakistan
Declare India as unsafe destination for trade, foreign affairs and tourism and ultimately impact financial might

Create chaos in the society.

Send signals to the west that India is not at all a safe destination with security failure.
*
Pakistan government was under immense pressure by the US and world that Pakistani Leaders accepted him to be a Pakistani. *
No one is going to create pressure on Pakistan till they themselves are sure of it. Same proofs were also given to them to get them convinced. If it would have been a single country it can be understood it was multiple countries which accepted the same.
*
India seriously opposed Arms Sales to Pakistan and also tried to make an issue of P3C Orion and Modification of Harpoon Missiles.*
A nation which was involved with the terrorist activities in the past as admitted by your own people is never good to be armed to teeth. Another thing is an armed to teeth hostile neighbor is never good for India. So prevention is better then cure.
*
we only differ on the issue of "Threats" being real or "Drama" as usual. *
Apart from Pakistan and Zaid Hamid everyone considers them threat only.


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## R.A.W.

Developereo said:


> I just find it intriguing that all the other terrorists fought to the death, but this guy gave up.



He wasnt trained enough or courageous enough or Indians were smart enough to catch him alive. Anyways this will also serve as a good point to counter Indian aggression in UN if Pakistan wishes to put his case as being 26/11 is Indian internal job


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## Peshwa

Developereo said:


> Over 2000 years ago, the Roman lawyer Cicero asked the critical question in any crime investigation, _cui bono_? Who benefits from this crime?
> 
> The Mumbai affair has been fraught with unanswered questions, foot dragging by Indian authorities, and various inconsistencies. There is every reason to suspect that Mumbai attacks were aided, if not orchestrated, by RAW. India has tried to milk maximum international sympathy out of it. It has tried to paint it as its 9/11, even going as far as calling it 26/11, to make it seem like 9/11.
> 
> Pakistan has no motive and gets no benefit from the Mumbai tragedy.
> 
> _cui bono_, indeed?



What the hell are you bangin on about??

I really didnt know that Day dreaming and coming up with conspiracy theories could be counted as a profession!!!
Do you get paid to come up with these ridiculous theories....coz I woulnt put one paisa against your statements above....

Please enlighten me....What are the inconsistencies....is the orange "Hindu" band, is it the uncircumcized Penis, the fact that the attackers were drunk/had taken drugs or that "Kasab cannot be muslim since no muslim will kill innocent people".

Develpereo.....I have been following your posts and you seem like a reasonable fella, I expected you to be a little more cognisent of the fact that there is ample proof to point fingers towards people on the other side of the Indian border....

Similar to your conclusions above, can we also simply assume that TTP, Al-Qaeda, Afghan Taliban etc.....all the groups that are so called "terrorizing Pakistan" are puppets of the Pakistani govt. and are operating/terrorizing to benefit Pakistan??
Simply because......."Who benefits from the crime?"
Is it because Pakistan want to get Billion dollars in aid to pump its economy, 
or 
is it to get free weapons and money to be used for nukes at America's expense 
or 
is it to gain strategic depth in afghanistan 
or 
is it to rid Pakistan of its image of being a "terrorist nation" and show that they are on the right side of the WOT

I mean if India's RAW can masscre a few ppl in the name of gaining sympathy.....hell your ISI can do all of the above and have a pakistani genocide in the process.....

Save your theory for the Pakistani's coz no one else is buying it.....
Your nation needs to own up to its past mistakes and take charge....
Remember Karma "What goes around comes around"

Khuda Hafiz


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## R.A.W.

self delete it was a flame

Sorry...................................


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## Enigma SIG

Tawheed Khan said:


> YO, you sack of crap! you seem to be getting *** kissed by pakistanis on this forum, those typical wannabe gorey pakistanis who have no sense of islam or their identity. but let me tell you as a true pakistani and a true muslim...there is nothing to discuss between us and you! there is only the bullet!
> 
> your fake country called india is destined to drown in blood! take this as a true *** message from a pakistani, not the butt kissers on here!



sheesh; champions of islam just like the taliban; everyone else except these people have no sense of islam.

may well be an indian in disguise; mods please check ip

what nonsense...

post is reported...

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## beckham

*Don't feed him ! He is just a local patriot ! *


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## R.A.W.

Imran2006g said:


> sheesh; champions of islam just like the taliban; everyone else except these people have no sense of islam.
> 
> *may well be an indian in disguise*; mods please check ip
> 
> what nonsense...
> 
> post is reported...



Sorry being offtopic but could not control this troll


 we can also fight over it.....


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## Machoman

I think "Pathar say sar photnay ka koi faida nahi" is useless to talk about this whole matter. Na tum suno gay na hum, we can just keep blaiming on each other. keep going.

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## dvk1982

Developereo said:


> The Mumbai affair has been fraught with unanswered questions, foot dragging by Indian authorities, and various inconsistencies. There is every reason to suspect that Mumbai attacks were aided, if not orchestrated, by RAW. India has tried to milk maximum international sympathy out of it. It has tried to paint it as its 9/11, even going as far as calling it 26/11, to make it seem like 9/11.
> 
> Pakistan has no motive and gets no benefit from the Mumbai tragedy.
> 
> _cui bono_, indeed?



i dont know where I want to start... but surely i dont want to post a long message, why ? becoz it's not going to change ur conspiracy ridden thought process. u wudn't have seen 26/11 if it didn't happen on Nov 26th ... we use day and then month in india so if u see 26/11 as kinds similar to 9/11 in media propaganda , can anyone argue abt it ? terrorist act happened and the day gained the prominence...
RAW has hidden agenda !! well lets see ur ISI too might have some hidden agendas in the turmoil of pakistan lately to veil its influence...


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## Developereo

Peshwa said:


> What the hell are you bangin on about??



Well, here's what bothers me about this whole thing.

According to the Pakistani government:
- India blamed Pakistan right away (expected); Pakistan immediately offered to help in the investigation, but India rejected the offer.
- the evidence to Pakistan was initially submitted in marathi.
- eventually the translated evidence was submitted, but piecemeal.
- final evidence was not submitted several months after.

Now either the Pakistani government is lying about all this, or the Indian authorities have been dragging their feet. I don't know who is telling the truth, but I don't see a motive for Pakistan to keep prolonging this matter. It hurts Pakistan internationally and in bilateral talks with India.

So, I feel there is something fishy going on here.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

*NO EVIDENCE?*

































































*NO CASE!!!*


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## Screaming Skull

Cross-posting from another thread......

*Pak files 2 cases against Hafiz Saeed: Report​*
17 September 2009,

FAISALABAD: The Pakistani authorities have filed two separate cases against Hafiz Saeed, the alleged mastermind of the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks and chief of the banned Jamaat-Ud-Dawa group, a media report said on Thursday.

The *cases were filed in two police stations in Faisalabad on the basis of sermons Saeed made recently, expressing his grave concerns over the stand by India, Israel and the US on Pakistan's nuclear assets.

He also expressed concern over the Pakistani government's change in Kashmir policy during his sermons at iftar parties Aug 26 and 27 in Faisalabad.*

Hafiz Saeed has also been indicted on *"charges of appealing for jihad fund" despite a strict ban on such appeals*, the Online news agency reported.

Over 170 people, including 26 foreigners, were killed in the Nov 26-29, 2008 Mumbai attacks.

In December 2008, Saeed was brought under house arrest after banning the Jamaat-Ud-Dawa by the Pakistani authorities. However, in June this year a Pakistani court released him.

Meanwhile, India accused Pakistan of blocking the inquiry into the 26/11 Mumbai attacks and safeguarding Saeed.

"They (Pakistan) have a vested interest in safeguarding Hafiz Saeed. We have no doubt that Saeed is the brain behind the 26/11 attacks and have evidence to prove it," Indian external affairs minister S M Krishna told a TV news channel in an interview recently. 

Pak files 2 cases against Hafiz Saeed: Report - Pakistan - World - NEWS - The Times of India

*------------------------------​*
*We will arrest Hafiz Saeed, claim Pak cops​*
Sep 18, 2009

Lahore: Pakistani police plan to arrest hardline cleric Hafiz Saeed, also accused by India in the Mumbai terror attacks, on charges of raising funds for the terrorist group Lashkar e Toiba, a senior officer said on Friday.

Hafiz Muhammad Saeed has always claimed that his Jamaat-ud-Dawa is a charity that helps victims of natural disasters and the poor.

Police officer Mohammed Tahir said on Friday that two criminal cases had been filed against Saeed because he illegally held a public gathering and raised funds for Jamaat-ud-Dawa in the city of Faisalabad in Punjab province last month.

*"We will definitely arrest him,"* said Tahir, without saying when.

A spokesman for Saeed said he had yet to be arrested and that he planned to consult with lawyers.

Pakistan arrested Saeed in December after India provided a dossier of evidence in a rare sharing of intelligence. But in June, a Pakistani court freed Saeed from house arrest, saying there was not enough evidence to hold him.

India has maintained he played a role in the attacks and has called on Pakistan to arrest him. 

We will arrest Hafiz Saeed, claim Pak cops - Express India

*-------------------------------*

*Zardari promises action against Saeed​*
Under pressure from the US, Pakistan today finally registered two FIRs against the alleged mastermind of 26/11 Mumbai terror attack - Hafiz Saeed and promised action against Saeed. "We'll take action against Hafiz Saeed," Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari said in response to a question from TIMES NOW's Sr Editor Srinjoy Choudhury on the FIRs against Saeed.

Pakistani police have also said that they would definitely arrest Saeed, though not in connection with the Mumbai carnage. The JuD chief has been booked under the Anti-Terrorism Act for allegedly making anti-state speeches.

Reacting to the development, External Affairs Minister has said that India will not be satisfied until the FIR is not linked to 26/11. For now, Saeed continues to be a free man as the police say they can't arrest him till they get a go-ahead from senior authorities.

*Watch Video of President Zardari's press coference​*


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## R.A.W.

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> *NO EVIDENCE?*
> 
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> *NO CASE!!!*



*Evidence provided come out of denial mode as world as already accepted it*











*Execute the culprits*


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## Abu Zolfiqar

R.A.W. said:


> *Evidence provided come out of denial mode as world as already accepted it*



oye -- indian...


cans of PAK beans, a packet of PAK soap, and a "PAK" Yamaha engine are not sufficient evidence to prove anything.


indians should be more concerned about naxals who have already swallowed up 13 indian states. indian should also be concerned about indian nationals, such as the deccan & indian muhahideen, who are home-grown and responsible for attacks against their own 'country'

rather than blame others constantly, correct your own plethora of faults and security blunders







> *Execute the culprits*



if our courts prove them guilty, they will face justice. If not, they will get justice.

Hafiz Saeed runs a charity. As far as we know, he has no links to terrorism. His only crime is speaking for the rights and justice to Kashmiris who are unwillingly under occupation. This may be to the chagrine of the indians, but not to us --and definately not to Kashmiris under occupation.

When he was detained initially, Hindus and Christian Pakistanis were crying, shouting and furious that he was arrested. Jamat ud Dawa did many charity works for Pakistani citizens (of all faiths), including schools and philanthropic projects. They also did great job during 2005 earthquake.

The man is no terrorist. 


More than I can say about Modi, Advani, Varun, and all those other cronies who are still in one way or another, active in politics!


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## King Julien

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> oye -- Indian...



Bol oye...



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> cans of PAK beans, a packet of PAK soap, and a "PAK" Yamaha engine are not sufficient evidence to prove anything.



what about a pakistani national?



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Indians should be more concerned about naxals who have already swallowed up 13 Indian states.



1.) its our Internal matter, none of your business
2.) their hold is temporary and limited
3.) have they made it to UN list?
4.) has it become as big as balochistan Issue? where your pm has to discuss it at International platform, *without any evidence*..



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Indian should also be concerned about Indian nationals, such as the deccan & Indian muhahideen, who are home-grown and responsible for attacks against their own 'country'



you need to update yourself... Indian mujahideen is busted and big time dead.... initial investigations points out IM terrorists received training in pakistan...



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> rather than blame others constantly, correct your own plethora of faults and security blunders



we blame and International media tags pakistan as terror state... how pathetic, isn't it?



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> if our courts prove them guilty, they will face justice. If not, they will get justice.



we believe in your judiciary system, not those who run Pakistan.. we want GoP to investigate his role in 26/11 and Interrogate him. 



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> hafiz saeed runs a charity. As far as we know, he has no links to terrorism.



so, you did check his aid given to people.... you sure they were not suicide bombers? 



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> His only crime is speaking for the rights and justice to Kashmiris who are unwillingly under occupation. This may be to the chagrine of the Indians, but not to us --and definately not to Kashmiris under occupation.



1.) *Kashmir is a integral part of India* (well that's what GoI said... not me)
2.) *60% Kashmiris turned out to vote*... I believe they gave a mandate.... 



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> When he was detained initially, Hindus and Christian pakistanis were crying, shouting and furious that he was arrested. jamat ud dawa did many charity works for pakistani citizens (of all faiths), including schools and philanthropic projects. They also did great job during 2005 earthquake.



one can only wonder why UN banned and declared jamat ud dava as terror organization...



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> The man is no terrorist.



you are free to give your views... you may join him for his charity works..




Abu Zolfiqar said:


> More than I can say about Modi, Advani, Varun, and all those other cronies who are still in one way or another, active in politics!



oh dear... are they giving you migraine?

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## HAIDER

Look like Izreali weapon industry facing recession.Time to push India to buy more for national security. After nuclear deterrence Pak-India war symptoms are diminish.


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## H2O3C4Nitrogen

I think depending upon the hostile nature of Israel our security experts and Institutions should give it an eaqual share along with India . Israel has many times shown its hostility towards Pakistan . We need to work out something with Iran and Sudan .

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## Abu Zolfiqar

Iran is smart and not smart. They have needlessly isolated themselves. But i respect a country that cares for its citizens and national security. They have their defence mechanisms that ensure that their ill wishers would not DARE attack them. I'll get shot down for saying this. But i believe in two state solution, israel has a right to exist. But i got my eyes on israel. I can just picture indian and israeli doing elaborate dinner and discussing ways to harm us. And if and when we ascertain such designs, we should convince doha riyadh and other oil producing countries to limit their supplies to said countries. We also need to put priority one in Baluchistan. Israel and india would harm us there by killing two birds with one stone. Support jundolah which would harm our ties with Iran and also support the morally corrupt nawabs. ISI will be working overtime i reckon, to counter two enemies. Be awake. Keep your eyes open even while you sleep. But stay calm and enjoy life. india is a big country that acts tiny. Israel is a country with no soul and no strategic depth. A stray cat's paw. Any threats to us 167 million we will crush them like roaches. I want to hear and feel the exoskeleton crushing under the force.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

as we say in my native Parachinar. Emotions. Whether in peace time or in war. Just never show it. They get you killed. Spend time with family and friends. Party. Go out. Help the poor. But stomp the enemy like insects. Plunder. Show no mercy.


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## R.A.W.

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Iran is smart and not smart. They have needlessly isolated themselves. But i respect a country that cares for its citizens and national security. They have their defence mechanisms that ensure that their ill wishers would not DARE attack them. I'll get shot down for saying this. But i believe in two state solution, israel has a right to exist. But i got my eyes on israel. I can just picture indian and israeli doing elaborate dinner and discussing ways to harm us. And if and when we ascertain such designs, we should convince doha riyadh and other oil producing countries to limit their supplies to said countries. We also need to put priority one in Baluchistan. Israel and india would harm us there by killing two birds with one stone. Support jundolah which would harm our ties with Iran and also support the morally corrupt nawabs. ISI will be working overtime i reckon, to counter two enemies. Be awake. Keep your eyes open even while you sleep. But stay calm and enjoy life. india is a big country that acts tiny. Israel is a country with no soul and no strategic depth. A stray cat's paw. Any threats to us 167 million we will crush them like roaches. I want to hear and feel the exoskeleton crushing under the force.



Oh wait Indians are also having dinner with russians. Far much more then what we have with Israel and they also have problem with your brothers in Chechnya. Why dont you guys try to nuke them also and crush their exoskelton.

yes france who banned few couple of things. US one of the biggest enemies, China also crushed Uighur. Wait they are also there.

Indians, Russians, Americans, Israel are friends and can and will dine whenever they want. Any threat to the integrity of these nations will be dealt with force.


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## Developereo

King Julien said:


> what about a pakistani national?



What about him?



King Julien said:


> 3.) have they made it to UN list?



Oh, so the UN is relevant now, is it?



King Julien said:


> 4.) has it become as big as balochistan Issue? where your pm has to discuss it at International platform, *without any evidence*..



You are linking Mumbai and Kashmir with Balochistan? Nice of you to finally come on board.



King Julien said:


> International media tags pakistan as terror state



Media also claims that aliens landed in Roswell, NM and that Michael Jackson was assassinated by the CIA. What does the media have to do with an ongoing criminal investigation?

I don't know about India but, in Pakistan, we decide our criminal cases in judicial courts, not the media.



King Julien said:


> we want GoP to investigate his role in 26/11 and Interrogate him.



The Pakistani judicial system will take whatever steps are appropriate to establish truth.



King Julien said:


> so, you did check his aid given to people.... you sure they were not suicide bombers?



If you have evidence regarding his funding, then present it. Otherwise, better go back to watching Bollywood movies.



King Julien said:


> 1.) *Kashmir is a integral part of India* (well that's what GoI said... not me)



Not according to the UN. Or is the UN irrelevant now?

The UN is relevant; it is irrelevant; you guys seem a little confused.



King Julien said:


> 2.) *60% Kashmiris turned out to vote*... I believe they gave a mandate....



No, they succumbed to the presence of 400,000 armed and hostile enemy troops on their doorsteps.



King Julien said:


> one can only wonder why UN banned and declared jamat ud dava as terror organization...



The UN again?
One can indeed wonder what is the Indian stance on UN pronouncements.



King Julien said:


> oh dear... are they giving you migraine?



They would give pause to anyone with a moral conscience about ethnic pogroms and state-sanctioned massacre of thousands of innocent civilians.

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## PakShaheen79

I wounder who is running Indian intelligence setup? Israelis or Indian by themselves.


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## TopCat

Israel is in huge pressure now. They are just trying to make some noises now. And India will buzz to it for its part of noise. But at the end both of them will doom as long as they try to cash in 9/11 instead of resolving outstanding issues. People are not going to buy those anymore.


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## R.A.W.

PakShaheen79 said:


> I wounder who is running Indian intelligence setup? Israelis or Indian by themselves.



Well keep wondering good for you.

By the way Pakistan is becoming a threat for both Indians and Israel by providing sheltor to terrorism and is not able to control its own "Non state actors". As these non state actors do consider Israel also a threat so the union of Israel and India against these "Non state actors" (Not against people of Pakistan) is justified.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

R.A.W. said:


> Well keep wondering good for you.
> 
> By the way Pakistan is becoming a threat for both Indians and Israel by providing sheltor to terrorism and is not able to control its own "Non state actors". As these non state actors do consider Israel also a threat so the union of Israel and India against these "Non state actors" (Not against people of Pakistan) is justified.



Pakistan is fighting terrorists. More than I can say about india which is facing 22 seperatist movements and in which 13 states are already infested with terrorists (farmers) who are bashing your army and police




what was it that the Shin Bet official had to say about indian forces during and subsequent to the bollywood attacks? 


*lackadaisical, unprofessional, incompetent, untrained, slow, confused and inefficient* 


india was obviously most who suffered after the attacks...not just in terms of lives. But they were humiliated. india had flatulence from excessive rrat meat, and they are pointing at somebody else


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## gubbi

Developereo said:


> I just find it intriguing that all the other terrorists fought to the death, but this guy gave up.



Those scumbags didnt fight to their deaths, they were, after their initial advantage, hunted down like rabid diseased pigs and slaughtered! Didnt you see the news clip where a NSG commando finally shot the last remaining pig in Taj hotel and kicked and shoved his body from the window? And their decaying maggot infested flesh still lies unclaimed in a morgue in Mumbai, no Indian Muslim body is willing to touch the corpses of these pigs!


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## ARSENAL6

R.A.W. said:


> Well keep wondering good for you.
> 
> By the way Pakistan is becoming a threat for both Indians and Israel by providing sheltor to terrorism and is not able to control its own "Non state actors". As these non state actors do consider Israel also a threat so the union of Israel and India against these "Non state actors" (Not against people of Pakistan) is justified.



What ? Israel and India are discussing ways to defend so called Terrorists ? - more like to exterminate the PEACE-Loving Muslims of the world ! another holocaust !

Proof from your post that you are on a rant against Pakistanis and Muslims on this forum yet again. Your idea that Pakistan "providing sheltor" to terrorists is not only idiotic (which is now becoming typical from your sort) but an insult to those who lost their lives in fighting them. Is there a guilty concious that you harbour, that you continuly keep linking Pakistan to terrorist in every post in this forum ? Is India behind the terror attacks to destablise Pakistan and have Israel to attack it ? food for thought people !!

RAW please quit with Anti-Pakistan, Anti-Muslim agenda in this forum and get back to reality !


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## gubbi

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Pakistan is fighting terrorists. More than I can say about india which is facing 22 seperatist movements and in which 13 states are already infested with terrorists (farmers) who are bashing your army and police


With a background in the armed forces you lack of knowledge of operations and backgrounds is sad to say the least.
You apparently cannot differentiate between a separatist movement, an ill-informed armed struggle against inequality, and a terrorist action. Pity.


> what was it that the Shin Bet official had to say about indian forces during and subsequent to the bollywood attacks?
> 
> 
> *lackadaisical, unprofessional, incompetent, untrained, slow, confused and inefficient*


Source?


> india was obviously most who suffered after the attacks...not just in terms of lives. But they were humiliated. india had flatulence from excessive rrat meat, and they are pointing at somebody else


Drivel! Good to know PA has a good system of screening officers for promotions. Either that or its going to be a hopelessly pathetic situation in the future.


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## R.A.W.

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Pakistan is fighting terrorists. More than I can say about india which is facing 22 seperatist movements and in which 13 states are already infested with terrorists (farmers) who are bashing your army and police
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what was it that the Shin Bet official had to say about indian forces during and subsequent to the bollywood attacks?
> 
> 
> *lackadaisical, unprofessional, incompetent, untrained, slow, confused and inefficient*
> 
> 
> india was obviously most who suffered after the attacks...not just in terms of lives. But they were humiliated. india had flatulence from excessive rrat meat, and they are pointing at somebody else



Check the news about your beloved separatists giving up their arms and rest getting A$$ whipped by COBRA. 

And by the terrorism from Pakistan's end has nothing to do with internals of India. Problems within India does not give Pakistan right to allow terrorism from its soil.

We are not humiliated but we are sad because we lost our people and there was a security flaw. anyways words like humiliation dont look good from the people who are begging around the globe for aid. 

Any links can you provide which says Indian farmers are terrorists. It is same as calling each Pakistani as a terrorist. If not then keep your pants up because it is habitual for you to bring your pants down to expose your arse.


----------



## R.A.W.

ARSENAL6 said:


> What ? Israel and India are discussing ways to defend so called Terrorists ? - more like to exterminate the PEACE-Loving Muslims of the world ! another holocaust !
> 
> Proof from your post that you are on a rant against Pakistanis and Muslims on this forum yet again. Your idea that Pakistan "providing sheltor" to terrorists is not only idiotic (which is now becoming typical from your sort) but an insult to those who lost their lives in fighting them. Is there a guilty concious that you harbour, that you continuly keep linking Pakistan to terrorist in every post in this forum ? Is India behind the terror attacks to destablise Pakistan and have Israel to attack it ? food for thought people !!
> 
> RAW please quit with Anti-Pakistan, Anti-Muslim agenda in this forum and get back to reality !



Neither I am anti Pakistan not anti Muslim. I have utter respect for Muslims. Pakistan does not speak for all Muslims. We have enough muslims within India and even in Pakistan whom I relate with. No one is doubting with Pakistan's efforts against Taliban. They have done a great job. But at the other end there have been groups based in Pakistan which have been responsible for terrorism within India. I am relating to them 


Let is a group based in Pakistan and has been involved with terrorism activities within India. Every third day there are reports of LeT operatives being caught. Cross border filtration is nothing new. 


And also Pakistan government has itself accepted that terrorism had been the part of state affairs in the past.


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## ARSENAL6

R.A.W. said:


> Neither I am anti Pakistan not anti Muslim. I have utter respect for Muslims. Pakistan does not speak for all Muslims. We have enough muslims within India and even in Pakistan whom I relate with. No one is doubting with Pakistan's efforts against Taliban. They have done a great job. But at the other end there have been groups based in Pakistan which have been responsible for terrorism within India. I am relating to them
> 
> 
> Let is a group based in Pakistan and has been involved with terrorism activities within India. Every third day there are reports of LeT operatives being caught. Cross border filtration is nothing new.
> 
> 
> And also Pakistan government has itself accepted that terrorism had been the part of state affairs in the past.



Is Pakistan Sheltoring Terrororsit ?


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## Abu Zolfiqar

gubbi said:


> You apparently cannot differentiate between a separatist movement, an ill-informed armed struggle against inequality, and a terrorist action. Pity.



my point was that hindstan has enough problems. Deal with those. Don't spend time and energy trying to analyze Pakistani national affairs. You have plenty of your own, including 800 million malnourished people to feed.

I also don't believe that Hafiz Saeed would have 'orchestrated' such a horrible attack in which mostly civilians were killed. We'll let the courts decide, since our judiciary is a free one.

Nobody in this country supports such incidents as we ourselves are dealing with threats.




> Source?



oh absolutely!

Israeli experts slam meek response to terror: India Today - Latest Breaking News from India, World, Business, Cricket, Sports, Bollywood.

Mumbai: Israel calls Indian forces lackadaisical, unprofessional, & incompetent - World Politics - Zimbio



i opine that it shouldn't have taken almost 3 days to stop 10 unruly hooligans with AK-47s, who were reportedly high off their arses on meth and alcohol

Reactions: Like Like:
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## sergente rehan

gubbi said:


> Those scumbags didnt fight to their deaths, they were, after their initial advantage, hunted down like rabid diseased pigs and slaughtered! Didnt you see the news clip where a NSG commando finally shot the last remaining pig in Taj hotel and kicked and shoved his body from the window? And their decaying maggot infested flesh still lies unclaimed in a morgue in Mumbai, no Indian Muslim body is willing to touch the corpses of these pigs!



yeah i saw that on BBC when NSG comando shot a civilian instead of getting the armed man! LOL


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## R.A.W.

ARSENAL6 said:


> Is Pakistan Sheltoring Terrororsit ?



Pakistan government as such claims them to non state actors. But ISI is alleged for promoting terrorist activities within India.


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## DaRk WaVe

R.A.W. said:


> Pakistan government as such claims them to non state actors. But ISI is alleged for promoting terrorist activities within India.



& every terrorist is caught in India with a Pak ID card add this line as well, & when recently ur PM said 'another attack is about to be carried out by non state actors in Pak' when our FM demanded info sharing, Chidu came into scene saying there is no ' credible Info', it has become an Indian habit to give irresponsible statements & blame everything on ISI n Pak


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## R.A.W.

emo_girl said:


> & every terrorist is caught in India with a Pak ID card add this line as well, & when recently ur PM said 'another attack is about to be carried out by non state actors in Pak' when our FM demanded info sharing, Chidu came into scene saying there is no ' credible Info', it has become an Indian habit to give irresponsible statements & blame everything on ISI n Pak



Same applies for your for blaming everything on RAW with no proof to anyone. At least we provided proof to the world community which accepted it.


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## R.A.W.

sergente rehan said:


> yeah i saw that on BBC when NSG comando shot a civilian instead of getting the armed man! LOL



Oh Should we give insight into the no of civilians getting killed in the army operations in Pakistan?

Listen people died and a person getting shot is nothing to laugh about......... I think you should understand the importance of each and every single life


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## ambersjay

emo_girl said:


> & every terrorist is caught in India with a Pak ID card add this line as well, & when recently ur PM said 'another attack is about to be carried out by non state actors in Pak' when our FM demanded info sharing, Chidu came into scene saying there is no ' credible Info', it has become an Indian habit to give irresponsible statements & blame everything on ISI n Pak



yeah sure, share information which can lead to the source of information!! sure we will do that!.seriously only people rahman malik is fooling with these antics are you guys.ISI is responsible for most terrorist attacks in India,so who is she going to blame? honolulu?.get real! you guys tried your best even to deny kasav's identity but in the end had to succumb to international pressure and admit the truth.


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## Spitfighter

I'm happy that India and Israel are cooperating on this front, hopefully India has prepared itself and we don't see a repeat of last year's attack.


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## gubbi

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> my point was that hindstan has enough problems. Deal with those. Don't spend time and energy trying to analyze Pakistani national affairs. You have plenty of your own, including 800 million malnourished people to feed.


Another piece of ignorant poopsicle. Indians arent concerned what happens in Pakistan FYI, but worried about what transpires in those dark labyrinthine sinister corridors of power crazed rouges which ultimately leads to terrorist attacks in India. Oh, we dont need much time to analyze your national affairs, we already know how you think-unfortunately for you. 
About 800 mil malnourished people in India, Haha, nice number! BTW have you ever heard of Dr. Norman Borlaug? Yup, dint tink sho!


> I also don't believe that Hafiz Saeed would have 'orchestrated' such a horrible attack in which mostly civilians were killed. We'll let the courts decide, since our judiciary is a free one.


Yeah we all know how effective your independent judiciary is. The track record of bringing terrorists responsible for attacks in Pakistan to book is sterling! Oh the envy! How would such a judiciary with such an enviable track record accept 'flimsy/bollywoodisque' evidence gathered by lowly agencies who have nabbed and successfully prosecuted many a terrorists! The outcome of this sham of a trial is a forgone conclusion.


> Nobody in this country supports such incidents as we ourselves are dealing with threats.


Of course, and your armed forces are doing an excellent job of trying to flush those talibys out! But have you ever heard of prevention is better than cure? Dont you regret creating talibys in the first place? Could have saved many a brave Pakistani army soldier's life!


> oh absolutely!
> 
> Israeli experts slam meek response to terror: India Today - Latest Breaking News from India, World, Business, Cricket, Sports, Bollywood.
> 
> Mumbai: Israel calls Indian forces lackadaisical, unprofessional, & incompetent - World Politics - Zimbio


Soundbites to place domestic population/outrage. Given the *circumstances*, Indian forces did the best anybody could. I hope you would better understand what is meant by circumstances.



> i opine that it shouldn't have taken almost 3 days to stop 10 unruly hooligans with AK-47s, who were reportedly high off their arses on meth and alcohol


I shall ignore the above comment in the knowledge that you made the comment as a flame bait and didnt seriously mean it, for only a trained forces personnel would understand the constraints/difficulties faced by our personnel in tackling the difficult situation.


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## DaRk WaVe

ambersjay said:


> yeah sure, share information which can lead to the source of information!! sure we will do that!.seriously only people rahman malik is fooling with these antics are you guys.ISI is responsible for most terrorist attacks in India,so who is she going to blame? honolulu?.get real! you guys tried your best even to deny kasav's identity but in the end had to succumb to international pressure and admit the truth.



Share info to stop any event, if u ppl have ur own reservations then tell ur PM not to make his stupid statements again & again, Rehman Malik, hmm i remember that Mukherjee, he changed his statements like 3-4 times at least, at least Malik has guts to talk with ur Chidu on this 26/11 issue there too u ppl apply ur own BS logic & btw have u seen any Police as efficient as Indian within two hours u ppl Conclude its the ISI, have some sense


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## Abu Zolfiqar

indians. You may be suffering from memory problems. Have fun with that. Nexxxxxxt.


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## hembo

India in touch with Israel over new attack tipoff
Fri, Sep 18 05:12 PM

Indian officials said on Friday they were in contact with Israel after a television report said Jerusalem had a "pinpoint" intelligence tip-off about Pakistani militants attacking India in the coming weeks.

Citing a leaked copy of a travel advisory due out on Friday, Israel's Channel Two said the potential attackers had al Qaeda links and planned to target both Western and Jewish tourists in attacks similar to last year's attacks in Mumbai.

In a report aired on Thursday, the channel said the advisory would warn Israeli citizens to avoid travelling to India.

"We are regularly in touch with them, sharing intelligence and news about any threats. But we have not heard anything specific about the latest alert," said K.P. Raghuvanshi, head of Mumbai's anti-terrorism force.

Two other Indian officials, who are not authorised to speak to reporters, said Indian intelligence agencies were liaising with Israel on the latest threat.

India was put on high alert this week after intelligence reports said Pakistan-based militants were trying to sneak into India through the Kashmir border, officials said.

"We are successfully thwarting them. At least 60 militants have been shot dead on the border in the last 12 months," Gopal Pillai, a top interior ministry official, told Reuters on Friday.

"Security in any case has been very tight for tourists and as a result there has not been a single terrorist attack on them in the last several months."

Pakistan-based militant groups usually step up efforts to push their members into Indian Kashmir before winter snow blocks the Himalayan mountain passes.

India's Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said last month there was "credible information" that Pakistan-based militant groups were planning fresh attacks on India. He did not give details.

India is a popular destination for Israeli holidaymakers, especially during Jewish festivals such as the traditional new year, which begins on Friday night.

Foreign tourists at two plush hotels and a Jewish centre were among the several targets attacked by 10 gunmen in last November's militant strike on Mumbai. India said the attackers were Pakistani nationals.


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## deep.ocean

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> indians. You may be suffering from memory problems. Have fun with that. Nexxxxxxt.



Yepp, we are suffering and will suffer untill GoI does not take formidable step to eliminate this global monster. I am not sure how GoI is dealing with the situation or what steps has been taken to ensure no Mubai Like attacks but I am pretty sure that Israelis are pretty much concerned about their citizens and its good also for India to have more eyes to counter these threats.

But its obvious that Next Mumbai Like attacks will be kind of DO or Die situation for India as well as for Pakistan.


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## mjnaushad

bandit said:


> Good thing that Israel is co-operating more with India now, its been the victim of the same sort of terrorism that we've had to endure. We can use their help given their extensive experience in this field.
> 
> .



Israel victim. Hahaha. Israel taken arab land by force with the help of USA and British. If someone take your home tomorrow by force what wil you do. And now Israel is expanding its boarders illegally. Do a research before calling anybody a terrorist or a victim.


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## bandit

graphican said:


> My friend, go ask your chemistry and physics 10th grade teacher to explain you if at 1200 degree centigrade, a 757 jet with all of its passengers and two turbo fan engines got evaporated and yet DNAs of all the passengers that gets destroyed at above 300 degrees remained intact. You need to have 1/4th of intellect to reach conclusions but I guess you are born will full brain.
> Being Indian don't mean you stop accepting realities and denying faction on ground.
> 
> You love Russia? read the statement of Russian Prime Minster about 9/11 for the sake of enlightenment.



I am sure you must have consulted your class teacher to reach this brilliant conclusion of yours.

These sort of conspiracy theories do not need even 1/4 of intellect, some measure of dumbness would do however.

You do realize that going by the small sample of posters here, your countrymen are the most ardent believers in these theories, and belief in such theories points to inability to accept realities.


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## ARSENAL6

R.A.W. said:


> Neither I am anti Pakistan not anti Muslim. I have utter respect for Muslims. Pakistan does not speak for all Muslims. We have enough muslims within India and even in Pakistan whom I relate with. No one is doubting with Pakistan's efforts against Taliban. They have done a great job. But at the other end there have been groups based in Pakistan which have been responsible for terrorism within India. I am relating to them
> 
> 
> Let is a group based in Pakistan and has been involved with terrorism activities within India. Every third day there are reports of LeT operatives being caught. Cross border filtration is nothing new.
> 
> 
> And also Pakistan government has itself accepted that terrorism had been the part of state affairs in the past.



I guess this post go out the window and my previous post that you posted a response, stills stands. ISI has always have defended Pakistan sovereignty against terrorists, and you are just look for a blame to continue this falsehood and anti-pakistan stance.
ISI is not a terrorist branch and has not involved in any sort of activity that will jeopardise Pakistan existence. Pakistan Officials may said that terrorists may exsists but then the terrorist may not be Muslim (as you quietly wanted to hint) Lets not forget RAWs involvment in south asia - and could well be that RAW are based in Pakistan to cause such problems its not the first time they have done this either !

http://blog.taragana.com/n/india-us...to-destabilize-pakistan-former-isi-dg-152512/

http://www.prisonplanet.com/indian-involvement-in-the-mumbai-attacks.html


RAW behind the Tamil Tigers terrorist group:












And check this rubbish out:




 
_"Now we know who our Indian media works for they are talking to the terrorist live on national televsion in India. How can we be talking to the terrorists? Secondly the accent is like Musharraf it seems like the terrorist talking in this video is mocking Musharraf accent it seems fake and he said certain words incorrectly if you look closely. it is clear that our Indian media has links to the terrorist and that besides the Indian army that funds the terrorists our media is also involved. Another clip I have shows how one terrorist let a media man go through and did not shoot him. How can our media get so much evidence in no time after the attack before the inquiry took place? It is all a fraud to make Pakistan blamed so that they can be under more pressure and USA can start to attack them. I feel sorry for my Pakistani friends they took me to Pakistan to show me Indian officers under cover operating there. The world needs to realize we will go into a unnecessary nuclear war with Pakistan unless we stop these lies against Pakistan. BJP officers caught exporting terrorism by Indian officer. RAW (Indian army) agents have also been caught in Pakistan"_




ANother group of Peolpe who gave their lives fighting against terrorists, ISI are one group that will defend Pakistan against terrorists 
Your Logic is madness and insulting yet again .

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## R.A.W.

ARSENAL6 said:


> I guess this post go out the window and my previous post that you posted a response, stills stands. ISI has always have defended Pakistan sovereignty against terrorists, and you are just look for a blame to continue this falsehood and anti-pakistan stance.
> ISI is not a terrorist branch and has not involved in any sort of activity that will jeopardise Pakistan existence. Pakistan Officials may said that terrorists may exsists but then the terrorist may not be Muslim (as you quietly wanted to hint) Lets not forget RAWs involvment in south asia - and could well be that RAW are based in Pakistan to cause such problems its not the first time they have done this either !
> 
> ANother group of Peolpe who gave their lives fighting against terrorists, ISI are one group that will defend Pakistan against terrorists
> Your Logic is madness and insulting yet again .



There is no problem till ISI is involved within Pakistan to curb down terrorism within Pakistan. Pakistan is their country and they have right to do so within Pakistan. And i respect the martyrs of Pakistan fighting against terror.

The problem arises when it tries supporting the terrorism activities within India. This can be easily googled various independent western media where it has been blamed for terrorism within India.


----------



## R.A.W.

ARSENAL6 said:


> I guess this post go out the window and my previous post that you posted a response, stills stands. ISI has always have defended Pakistan sovereignty against terrorists, and you are just look for a blame to continue this falsehood and anti-pakistan stance.
> ISI is not a terrorist branch and has not involved in any sort of activity that will jeopardise Pakistan existence. Pakistan Officials may said that terrorists may exsists but then the terrorist may not be Muslim (as you quietly wanted to hint) Lets not forget RAWs involvment in south asia - and could well be that RAW are based in Pakistan to cause such problems its not the first time they have done this either !
> 
> India, US, Israel involved in a &#8216;nexus&#8217; to destabilize Pakistan: Former ISI DG
> 
> Alex Jones&#8217; Prison Planet.com Indian involvement in the Mumbai attacks
> 
> 
> RAW behind the Tamil Tigers terrorist group:
> 
> [url="
> 
> 
> 
> - Indian Army & RAW Train Tamil Tiger [LTTE] Terrorists [EXPOSED][/url]
> 
> 
> [url="
> 
> 
> 
> - Alex Jones American Analyst Exposing Mumbai Attacks[/url]
> 
> And check this rubbish out:
> [url="
> 
> 
> 
> - Look Our Indian media talking to the Mumbai terrrorists[/url]
> 
> _"Now we know who our Indian media works for they are talking to the terrorist live on national televsion in India. How can we be talking to the terrorists? Secondly the accent is like Musharraf it seems like the terrorist talking in this video is mocking Musharraf accent it seems fake and he said certain words incorrectly if you look closely. it is clear that our Indian media has links to the terrorist and that besides the Indian army that funds the terrorists our media is also involved. Another clip I have shows how one terrorist let a media man go through and did not shoot him. How can our media get so much evidence in no time after the attack before the inquiry took place? It is all a fraud to make Pakistan blamed so that they can be under more pressure and USA can start to attack them. I feel sorry for my Pakistani friends they took me to Pakistan to show me Indian officers under cover operating there. The world needs to realize we will go into a unnecessary nuclear war with Pakistan unless we stop these lies against Pakistan. BJP officers caught exporting terrorism by Indian officer. RAW (Indian army) agents have also been caught in Pakistan"_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ANother group of Peolpe who gave their lives fighting against terrorists, ISI are one group that will defend Pakistan against terrorists
> Your Logic is madness and insulting yet again .



Sir the links which you gave are just blogs. and the views of Mr. Alex Jones have the same credibility as that of Zaid Hamid. You can better search for Zaid Hamid and you will find better shows and allegations and yes not to forget Ajmal Kasab is Amar Singh

Secondly this video has been discussed like hell in other threads so you can refer them. There is no point of reinventing the wheel again and again.


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## ARSENAL6

R.A.W. said:


> *Sir the links which you gave are just blogs.* and the views of Mr. Alex Jones have the same credibility as that of Zaid Hamid. You can better search for Zaid Hamid and you will find better shows and allegations and yes not to forget Ajmal Kasab is Amar Singh
> 
> Secondly this video has been discussed like hell in other threads so you can refer them. _*There is no point of reinventing the wheel again and again.*_



Excatly both have credible evidence of India agency involving terror attacks on Pakistan and other nation around Asia unlike its IBN source that tend to reports rubbish incidents and spin lies to fabricate a wet dream for Hindus 
It absolutely safe to say that the exsitance of ISI ensure the peace, stabilty and safe gaurdness against such evil terrorists acts from agence like RAW and the people who protect them in Asia, Israel and indeed the world.



R.A.W. said:


> _There is no point of reinventing the wheel again and again._



Yes Its nice to know that you took this line from many people who tried to tell you to quit the bullshit that you like to smother around this forum,


----------



## Peshwa

Developereo said:


> Well, here's what bothers me about this whole thing.
> 
> According to the Pakistani government:
> - India blamed Pakistan right away (expected); Pakistan immediately offered to help in the investigation, but India rejected the offer.
> - the evidence to Pakistan was initially submitted in marathi.
> - eventually the translated evidence was submitted, but piecemeal.
> - final evidence was not submitted several months after.
> 
> Now either the Pakistani government is lying about all this, or the Indian authorities have been dragging their feet. I don't know who is telling the truth, but I don't see a motive for Pakistan to keep prolonging this matter. It hurts Pakistan internationally and in bilateral talks with India.
> 
> So, I feel there is something fishy going on here.



Develpereo......although I feel that your above "doubts" do not really qualify as evidence of India trying to cover its deeds, however if thats what you're implying, then please read below for the outlook from the Indian side:

1. In India and Pakistan mudslinging is very common, and pointing fingers at Pakistan immediately was rather wrong, however you have to understand that the whole nation had become quite intense and emotional over the incident. It is only expected that you first blame the country that is your long standing enemy and has supported such actions in the past.....
However I can understand your concern if the accusations were proven wrong, but they werent....so I dont see why thats fishy?
Secondly, why would we hold a joint investigation with Pak? When you suspect the involvement of a country with a massacre such as 26/11, you dont just hand over key evidence to the one that you're acccusing.....That would be rather stupid dont u think??
By providing you with the evidence, and involving Pak agencies, we would give you guys a chance to cover your arses and get rid of any trails etc........

2. Marathi is the local language of Maharashtra and Mumbai. All legal documents are prepared in sets of 3, Hindi, Marathi and English. Not all members of our armed forces, administration etc are well versed with English.....hence the documentation had a Marathi version as well.....Which was irresponsibly sent to Pak as a Dossier....
Now I completely agree with you that this is a sign of complete inefficiency by the Indian agencies, but no how does it imply that India was trying to cover up something......
Please tell me what made you think this was an attempt to cover up?

3. As far as In remember, the translated version was given as a whole and not in parts. I havent read any reports on that, so any article or story would be helpful.

4. The actual evidence is something one bases their case on. It needs to be protected and analyzed thoroughly before it is sent to the party that is being accused. India needed time to build its case, make all accusations thorough and involve neutral 3rd parties to verify the claim it made. Plus providing the evidence to Pak right away would only give them a heads up and try to botch leads or give key involved members to escape from Pak before action could be taken, thus allowing Pak to wash their hands of the entire matter.....
If Im not mistaken, Pak claims that one of the accused is not in Pak, but India says otherwise.....I dont care about who's right or wrong, but this is an example of the above.....

Now let me ask, if the govt. of Pakistan has accepted the claims made by India.....
Why are you in denial??? Is this a shocking revelation that there is militancy in Pakistan?? 
Accept that Pakistani soil was used to plan an attack on India and move on.......Denial and conspiracy theories floated by some members here just make the whole incident seem like a joke and lives lost trivial......
Trust me, Indians wont take this lightly!!!


----------



## Developereo

gubbi said:


> Indians arent concerned what happens in Pakistan FYI,



On the contrary.
India's patriotism and unity is built on the back of Pakistan-bashing.



gubbi said:


> Oh, we dont need much time to analyze your national affairs, we already know how you think



Your understanding, or lack thereof, of our national affairs and judicial process suggests that you need to spend "much time". Much, much, much time.



bandit said:


> Yeah we all know how effective your independent judiciary is. The track record of bringing terrorists responsible for attacks in Pakistan to book is sterling! Oh the envy!



Our judicial system does not play up to the media.
Unlike India's.



bandit said:


> How would such a judiciary with such an enviable track record accept 'flimsy/bollywoodisque' evidence



Indeed; hence the need for us to do proper investigations and make up for the sloppy job done by Indian "investigators".



bandit said:


> gathered by lowly agencies who have nabbed and successfully prosecuted many a terrorists!



By obtaining Ajmal Kasab type "confessions", no doubt.



bandit said:


> The outcome of this sham of a trial is a forgone conclusion.



This is not a Bollywood movie, where the ending is predictable in advance.
It is a serious criminal investigation and the decision will be based on the evidence, not on Indian media hysteria.



bandit said:


> Dont you regret creating talibys in the first place?



TTP is a monster created by RAW/Afghans, not Pakistan.



bandit said:


> Soundbites to place domestic population/outrage.



Look who's talking.
Indian media thrives on nonsense, jingoistic soundbites.



bandit said:


> You do realize that going by the small sample of posters here, your countrymen are the most ardent believers in these theories, and belief in such theories points to inability to accept realities.



You do realize that this is Pakistan defence forum, so it will have a disproportionate number of Pakistanis on it?

I have seen some pretty dumb statements on this forum, but yours stands in a league of its own.


----------



## Developereo

Peshwa said:


> 1. In India and Pakistan mudslinging is very common, and pointing fingers at Pakistan immediately was rather wrong, however you have to understand that the whole nation had become quite intense and emotional over the incident. It is only expected that you first blame the country that is your long standing enemy and has supported such actions in the past.....However I can understand your concern if the accusations were proven wrong, but they werent....so I dont see why thats fishy?



Given the facts available at the time, it was a very irresponsible statement on the part of the Indian government.



Peshwa said:


> Secondly, why would we hold a joint investigation with Pak? When you suspect the involvement of a country with a massacre such as 26/11, you dont just hand over key evidence to the one that you're acccusing.....That would be rather stupid dont u think??
> By providing you with the evidence, and involving Pak agencies, we would give you guys a chance to cover your arses and get rid of any trails etc........



I acknowledge the level of mistrust, but denying involvement to Pakistan's top security agencies means that India suspects complicity at the highest level. That is a very serious accusation -- one that India hasn't made as far as I know -- but I can understand the Indian resistance.



Peshwa said:


> 2. Marathi is the local language of Maharashtra and Mumbai. All legal documents are prepared in sets of 3, Hindi, Marathi and English. Not all members of our armed forces, administration etc are well versed with English.....hence the documentation had a Marathi version as well.....Which was irresponsibly sent to Pak as a Dossier....
> Now I completely agree with you that this is a sign of complete inefficiency by the Indian agencies, but no how does it imply that India was trying to cover up something......



I am afraid I don't buy this *at all*.

This was not some village clerk, third class, sending off a routine farm report. This was THE criminal investigation in India at the time, with India's top cops at work. You simply do not make such a ridiculous mistake.



Peshwa said:


> 3. As far as In remember, the translated version was given as a whole and not in parts. I havent read any reports on that, so any article or story would be helpful.



Reuters AlertNet - India gives Pakistan new evidence on Mumbai - TV

*21 Aug 2009* 14:04:26 GMT 
Source: Reuters
_NEW DELHI, Aug 21 (Reuters) - India gave Pakistan on Friday a new dossier of evidence to prosecute Hafiz Saeed, the suspected mastermind of the three-day carnage that killed 166 people in Mumbai in November, television channels said._

What the h*ll was India waiting for? Why wasn't this evidemce provided until Pakistan asked for it?



Peshwa said:


> 4. The actual evidence is something one bases their case on. It needs to be protected and analyzed thoroughly before it is sent to the party that is being accused. India needed time to build its case, make all accusations thorough and involve neutral 3rd parties to verify the claim it made. Plus providing the evidence to Pak right away would only give them a heads up and try to botch leads or give key involved members to escape from Pak before action could be taken, thus allowing Pak to wash their hands of the entire matter.....



How can India accuse Pakistan of dragging its feet when it knows that it hasn't provided them all the evidence?

It also makes one wonder if the evidence provided to Pakistan is the same as the evidence provided to third parties.



Peshwa said:


> Now let me ask, if the govt. of Pakistan has accepted the claims made by India.....
> Why are you in denial??? Is this a shocking revelation that there is militancy in Pakistan??
> Accept that Pakistani soil was used to plan an attack on India and move on.......



I don't think anybody is questioning that Pakistani nationals were involved and the attack may even have been planned in Pakistan. The doubts I have are related to the issues we are dicussing, which still leaves me unconvinced that India is telling all that it knows.

I can also play devil's advocate and say that India is releasing evidence only after it has cleared its (RAW's) tracks in the matter. Paranoia goes both ways.

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## R.A.W.

Developereo said:


> Given the facts available at the time, it was a very irresponsible statement on the part of the Indian government.
> 
> 
> 
> I acknowledge the level of mistrust, but denying involvement to Pakistan's top security agencies means that India suspects complicity at the highest level. That is a very serious accusation -- one that India hasn't made as far as I know -- but I can understand the Indian resistance.
> 
> 
> 
> I am afraid I don't buy this *at all*.
> 
> This was not some village clerk, third class, sending off a routine farm report. This was THE criminal investigation in India at the time, with India's top cops at work. You simply do not make such a ridiculous mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> Reuters AlertNet - India gives Pakistan new evidence on Mumbai - TV
> 
> *21 Aug 2009* 14:04:26 GMT
> Source: Reuters
> _NEW DELHI, Aug 21 (Reuters) - India gave Pakistan on Friday a new dossier of evidence to prosecute Hafiz Saeed, the suspected mastermind of the three-day carnage that killed 166 people in Mumbai in November, television channels said._
> 
> What the h*ll was India waiting for? Why wasn't this evidemce provided until Pakistan asked for it?
> 
> 
> 
> How can India accuse Pakistan of dragging its feet when it knows that it hasn't provided them all the evidence?
> 
> It also makes one wonder if the evidence provided to Pakistan is the same as the evidence provided to third parties.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think anybody is questioning that Pakistani nationals were involved and the attack may even have been planned in Pakistan. The doubts I have are related to the issues we are dicussing, which still leaves me unconvinced that India is telling all that it knows.



I agree with not all but majority of your points but you need to understand few couple of things.

see initial level has already been provided to pakistan. Evidences and conviction takes some time to form. It takes time to gather them scrrutinize them and then present them. not everything which is found is creditable so it takes time in scrutiny and since the already provided evidence is not sufficient then it will take some more time for the agencies to gather more of them. Evidences are not sold in some market which you can purchase. there are trails which needs to be followed.

Secondly sharing of actual evidences with Pakistan, on the part there is slight possibility which you also cannot deny that Pakistani agencies might be involved. I am not accusing them I am talking about the possibilities. It would be more like giving the evidences in the hands of thieves. So there is reluctance about sharing them directly with Pakistan and third parties are getting involved.

I belive this answers your question.


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## Developereo

R.A.W. said:


> see initial level has already been provided to pakistan. Evidences and conviction takes some time to form. It takes time to gather them scrrutinize them and then present them. not everything which is found is creditable so it takes time in scrutiny and since the already provided evidence is not sufficient then it will take some more time for the agencies to gather more of them. Evidences are not sold in some market which you can purchase. there are trails which needs to be followed.



So you admit that evidence is obtained and released piecemeal. The Indian authorities should come clean and explain this to the Indian public instead of giving the impression that they gave an air-tight case to the Pakistani government long ago.

The Indian authorities should stop their self-righteous chest thumping and falsely accusing Pakistan of dragging its feet.



R.A.W. said:


> Secondly sharing of actual evidences with Pakistan, on the part there is slight possibility which you also cannot deny that Pakistani agencies might be involved. I am not accusing them I am talking about the possibilities. It would be more like giving the evidences in the hands of thieves. So there is reluctance about sharing them directly with Pakistan and third parties are getting involved.



If you withhold evidence, then how can you expect a legitimate court case to reach your desired verdict?

This again brings up the question of whether the evidence provided to Pakistan is the same evidence that was provided to third parties. If it is not, then you can't blame Pakistan.


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## R.A.W.

Developereo said:


> So you admit that evidence is obtained and released piecemeal. The Indian authorities should come clean and explain this to the Indian public instead of giving the impression that they gave an air-tight case to the Pakistani government long ago.
> 
> The Indian authorities should stop their self-righteous chest thumping and falsely accusing Pakistan of dragging its feet.
> 
> 
> 
> If you withhold evidence, then how can you expect a legitimate court case to reach your desired verdict?
> 
> This again brings up the question of whether the evidence provided to Pakistan is the same evidence that was provided to third parties. If it is not, then you can't blame Pakistan.



see the evidence itself is strong enough to execute the convicts as per Indians. but Pakistan things they want more then they will have to wait for the trail. If that was not enough then the world would have not accepted it as legitimate. Indians are not that great that everyone accepts what ever India says as word of mouth.

So we I am no one to comment on this GOI will definitely be working out with the solution for sharing of evidence with its preservation. This is the sole reason why it is taking time.


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## King Julien

evidence?

Indian home ministry clearly made a statement saying enough evidence has been provided to detain and interrogate hafiz saeed... now do members here believe without any solid evidence, UN would have tagged saeed as terrorist? 
The Attack was Planned in Pakistan and executed by Pakistani Nationals.. Now as per Investigations, with whatever resources to collect data in foreign land and with help from Intelligence agencies of other countries, Investigators zeroed down on Hafiz saeed as prime suspect.

What India wants?
India Wants Pakistan to Interrogate Saeed and further carry out investigation on 26/11, collect evidence on who were the people involved and who were those handlers, zero down on these culprits and punish them.

What Pakistan has been doing?
Patiently exploring those dossiers shared and collecting loopholes.
No Action taken in these 10 months.
Blowing the horn of evidence... now how on earth can any investigation agency collect 100&#37; evidence against a suspect sitting in foreign land?


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## Abu Zolfiqar

*NO EVIDENCE?*





































































*NO CASE!!*


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## R.A.W.

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> *NO EVIDENCE?*
> 
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> *NO CASE!!*



Yups right..... read your post before ranting about TTP. You do not have evidence and till you do do not have it you cannot do **** about it.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

you're a guest on a Pakistani forum. Don't you dare show disrespect here. As for evidence, when given dossier in a language we could actually understand, we acted. Our judiciary is free and we respect rulings made by the court. We will not blindly come to judgements simply because of what indian is saying. Things don't work like that here. Meanwhile, we also expect justice to be served for the Pakistani nationals whose ill fated journey in india on board shamjota express train would be their last. Unacceptable and senseless.


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## R.A.W.

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> you're a guest on a Pakistani forum. Don't you dare show disrespect here. As for evidence, when given dossier in a language we could actually understand, we acted. Our judiciary is free and we respect rulings made by the court. We will not blindly come to judgements simply because of what indian is saying. Things don't work like that here. Meanwhile, we also expect justice to be served for the Pakistani nationals whose ill fated journey in india on board shamjota express train would be their last. Unacceptable and senseless.



If you have been following then Samjhota express proceeding are going on. The dossier has been modified and provided back but then apart from Pakistan is accepting the evidence.


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## gubbi

Developereo said:


> On the contrary.
> India's patriotism and unity is built on the back of Pakistan-bashing.


Interesting statement! A 10,000 yr old civilization with a very rich and vibrant culture, history, traditions, growth, and most importantly various people sticking together through centuries, needs to do some one country's bashing to hold together! Wow. That earwax in your cranium puts that little clump of neurons in the neighborhood to shame!
One question: Take out Kashmir rhetoric followed by India-bashing and tell me what defines Pakistani nationalism? Islam? Dont tink sho. Look around, observe whats happening and *think again*.


> Your understanding, or lack thereof, of our national affairs and judicial process suggests that you need to spend "much time". Much, much, much time.
> Our judicial system does not play up to the media.
> Unlike India's.


Prove me wrong and I shall bow my head with utmost respect before thee, oh exalted intellect!


> Indeed; hence the need for us to do proper investigations and make up for the sloppy job done by Indian "investigators".


And pray, where is the 'propah' evidence gathered 'propahly' by your excellent, competant investigators?


> By obtaining Ajmal Kasab type "confessions", no doubt.


Do you have any evidence to the contrary? Present it. C'mon show some gall, else be a wind and blow!


> This is not a Bollywood movie, where the ending is predictable in advance.
> It is a serious criminal investigation and the decision will be based on the evidence, not on Indian media hysteria.


Ah, a sham of an investigation, a farce being parlayed as counterclaims to proven, factual evidences.


> TTP is a monster created by RAW/Afghans, not Pakistan.


Believe in that fallacy all you want, for your country will be the one to ultimately face consequences, not for the want of imagination but for the want of a responsible majority with some sense of reality.


> Look who's talking.
> Indian media thrives on nonsense, jingoistic soundbites.


Ah, so does every other country's media, yours included (if you can that some media!). Heres the catch, it all depends on the lengths to which they all go, a look at your own media or for that matter the Chinese CPC mouthpieces (theres no such thing as real free media in China) should suffice.


> I have seen some pretty dumb statements on this forum, but yours stands in a league of its own.


So you finally figured it out, eh?! Way to go, Einstein!

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## IceCold

gubbi said:


> Interesting statement! A 10,000 yr old civilization with a very rich and vibrant culture, history, traditions, growth, and most importantly various people sticking together through centuries, needs to do some one country's bashing to hold together! Wow. That earwax in your cranium puts that little clump of neurons in the neighborhood to shame!
> One question: Take out Kashmir rhetoric followed by India-bashing and tell me what defines Pakistan? Islam? Dont tink sho. Look around, observe whats happening and *think again*.
> 
> Prove me wrong and I shall bow my head with utmost respect before thee, oh exalted intellect!
> 
> And pray, where is the 'propah' evidence gathered 'propahly' by your excellent, competant investigators?
> 
> Do you have any evidence to the contrary? Present it. C'mon show some gall, else be a wind and blow!
> 
> Ah, a sham of an investigation, a farce being parlayed as counterclaims to proven, factual evidences.
> 
> Believe in that fallacy all you want, for your country will be the one to ultimately face consequences, not for the want of imagination but for the want of a responsible majority with some sense of reality.
> 
> Ah, so does every other country's media, yours included (if you can that some media!). Heres the catch, it all depends on the lengths to which they all go, a look at your own media or for that matter the Chinese CPC mouthpieces (theres no such thing as real free media in China) should suffice.
> 
> So you finally figured it out, eh?! Way to go, Einstein!



That 10000 year old civilization does not belong to India alone genius or is that what you are fed at school.
The rest of your post is as usual more rant from an Indian.


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## Developereo

gubbi said:


> Interesting statement! A 10,000 yr old civilization with a very rich and vibrant culture, history, traditions, growth, and most importantly various people sticking together through centuries, needs to do some one country's bashing to hold together! Wow. That earwax in your cranium puts that little clump of neurons in the neighborhood to shame!



Except for the brief period of Mughal/British rule, there has been no such thing as a nation called India. It was always a collection of kingdoms.

India's modern identity is a relic of British rule and its unity has been cemented artificially by jingoistic propaganda against Pakistan. Indian media continues to play from this songbook, lately substituting China for Pakistan.



gubbi said:


> One question: Take out Kashmir rhetoric followed by India-bashing and tell me what defines Pakistani nationalism? Islam? Dont tink sho. Look around, observe whats happening and *think again*.



Islam is a part of our identity, but we are much more than that. Pakistan defines a unique blend of Islamic, Persian, Central Asian, and Indus valley civilizations.



gubbi said:


> Prove me wrong and I shall bow my head with utmost respect before thee, oh exalted intellect!



It is not my job to educate you about Pakistan's judicial process. You will have to take responsibility for your own education.



gubbi said:


> And pray, where is the 'propah' evidence gathered 'propahly' by your excellent, competant investigators?



Wherever the evidence leads, the investigation will follow. That's the way it works in real life, unlike in Bollywood movies.



gubbi said:


> Do you have any evidence to the contrary? Present it. C'mon show some gall, else be a wind and blow!



We all know the value of "confessions" obtained under torture.



gubbi said:


> Ah, a sham of an investigation, a farce being parlayed as counterclaims to proven, factual evidences.



No. A proper judicial investigation.
As opposed to the media circus in India.



gubbi said:


> Ah, so does every other country's media, yours included (if you can that some media!).



Even many Indians acknowledge that Indian media is juvenile and hysterically bellicore. Pakistan media is far more self-critical than the sycophantic, jingoistic tripe that passes for mainstream media in India.  The Chinese just slapped your media down a few pegs, and gave them a reality check.

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## R.A.W.

*Except for the brief period of Mughal/British rule, there has been no such thing as a nation called India. It was always a collection of kingdoms.

India's modern identity is a relic of British rule and its unity has been cemented artificially by jingoistic propaganda against Pakistan. Indian media continues to play from this songbook, lately substituting China for Pakistan.*

I heard somewhere people are not taught about Chandragupta Maurya, Ashok, Chanakya in Pakistan history. May be this lead to the foundation of your current belief. May be you need to know the origin of the name Bharat from Bharatvansh. I dont think that the name Bharat came with the Britishers. It was prevenlent from the time of Mauryas and Guptas


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## Abu Zolfiqar

IceCold said:


> That 10000 year old civilization does not belong to India alone genius or is that what you are fed at school.
> The rest of your post is as usual more rant from an Indian.



don't worry about this bhaanda........


as for threats to india --- indian should look at this:




and read this:

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Leak reveals India Maoist threat


in order to ascertain (and appreciate) the threats emanating from within its own border.























p.s. i don't see the relevance, but india was NOT "for 10,000 years" a civilization. It was never even one united entity, but a vast array of diferent nation-states with people of different ethnicities, backgrounds, and (sub)cultures.

let it also be known for the record that Pakistan is older than india.

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## R.A.W.

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> let it also be known for the record that Pakistan is older than india.



First what has maoist and naxals have to do with the mumbai attacks. And dont worry about them their A$$ are getting whipped as we talk with the COBRA doing the operations.

Second India was united in the time Chandragupta and Ashok.

Third  Yes India separated from Pakistan and India asked Pakistan to give a separate land. Cant reply you on this one.........


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## gubbi

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> p.s. i don't see the relevance, but india was NOT "for 10,000 years" a civilization. It was never even one united entity, but a vast array of diferent nation-states with people of different ethnicities, backgrounds, and (sub)cultures.


History for Dummies is a very good read. FYI.

Deny all you want, for the truth thou shalt ne'er see nor believe. Oh the ignominy of an ignoramus! If one only realized!

*The various nation-states with people of different cultures is what exactly defines India - very unique to the world. Does Unity in Diversity ring a bell with ya? Show me another example where a bumbling, squabbling, raucous population has stuck together through ages and is now, though pulling at the seams in different directions, collectively moving forward in the one direction of prosperity and power?*
[cannot compute, cannot compute.............boom!!!]
*See the problem? Notice a pattern where many forummers here reject the notion that such a complicated civilization has managed to survive onslaughts of religion, culture, unethical trade, imperialistic ambitions and yet stuck together?* 

You, my friend, just cannot digest the fact that such a phenomena can happen when all you do is wonder how many uniform states with religious uniformity or uniformity in populations or govt imposed strict uniformity codes are decaying from within!

Either that or is it that in search for an identity to define ones own existence, some cannot digest the existence and presence of an unique identity of the other?


> *let it also be known for the record that Pakistan is older than india.*


_Eakselant_!
I have seen a lot of outrageous comments on these forums by many a dimwits, but "Bhau" you take the _cake and the topping_ from them all! Kudos!


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## gubbi

Developereo said:


> Islam is a part of our identity, but we are much more than that. Pakistan defines a unique blend of Islamic, Persian, Central Asian, and Indus valley civilizations.



All I could see in your post is rant, rant, denial, denial, and more denial, except for the above part!

Now can you elaborate on that part again?
As I understand Pakistan was created as an Muslim majority secular state for the majority of the Muslim population of the sub-continent. Along the way, it became an Islamic nation and got itself embroiled in conflicts in its surroundings on the pretext of helping/promoting muslim brotherhood.
Now, where in this milieu did the blending of Persian, Central Asian identities occur? Pray, what contribution does Indus Valley civilization have on the present day Pakistani society?


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## Developereo

R.A.W. said:


> I heard somewhere people are not taught about Chandragupta Maurya, Ashok, Chanakya in Pakistan history. May be this lead to the foundation of your current belief. May be you need to know the origin of the name Bharat from Bharatvansh. I dont think that the name Bharat came with the Britishers. It was prevenlent from the time of Mauryas and Guptas



No, you are absolutely right. We did learn about Muarya Dynasties, Ashoka, Buddha, Aryan invasion of Dravidians, etc, etc. It was all a long time ago, and had slipped my mind.

Allow me to rephrase. India has always been a loose collection of kingdoms, punctuated with brief periods of unity.



gubbi said:


> All I could see in your post is rant, rant, denial, denial, and more denial, except for the above part!



In other words, no rebuttal, eh? 
No worries. We can move on. 



gubbi said:


> As I understand Pakistan was created as an Muslim majority secular state for the majority of the Muslim population of the sub-continent. Along the way, it became an Islamic nation and got itself embroiled in conflicts in its surroundings on the pretext of helping/promoting muslim brotherhood.



Pakistan has forsaken Jinnah's secular ideology. I will grant you that.



gubbi said:


> Now, where in this milieu did the blending of Persian, Central Asian identities occur? Pray, what contribution does Indus Valley civilization have on the present day Pakistani society?



Our language, culture, history and traditions didn't magically come into existance on August 14, 1947. A person is more than the sum of their experiences; the same goes for peoples and cultures. We even borrowed from Hindu culture, and vice versa.

The IVC ruled for 1500 years until it was decimated by the Muaryan and other invasions, but they couldn't destroy the culture. There are ancient cultural traditions in Sindh and Punjab that would look as alien as Western traditions to a Hindu or Arab observer.

Indus Valley Civilization

_From time immemorial the world has known two different countries and cultures in the sub-continent; one based on the Indus and its five tributaries known as Sindhu and the other on the Ganges Valley known as Bharatvarta.
[...]
The Sindhu country with its Indus Valley Civilization - also known as Harappa culture - had its sway from Rupar on upper Sutlej to the lower reaches of the Indus on the Arabian Sea, a distance of about a thousand miles - *almost the same territory now covered by Pakistan*._


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## R.A.W.

*Allow me to rephrase. India has always been a loose collection of kingdoms, punctuated with brief periods of unity.*


I think this will help you with the mauryan empire.







Even Mughal period was a brief period if you compare with Indian history. Anyways here is the mughal empire.


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## Developereo

R.A.W. said:


> I think this will help you with the mauryan empire.



The Maurya Empire was a geographically extensive and powerful empire in ancient India, ruled by the Mauryan dynasty from 321 to 185 B.C.E.



R.A.W. said:


> Even Mughal period was a brief period if you compare with Indian history. Anyways here is the mughal empire.



Exactly, they are all like blinks of an eye in the full course of history.


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## R.A.W.

Developereo said:


> The Maurya Empire was a geographically extensive and powerful empire in ancient India, ruled by the Mauryan dynasty from 321 to 185 B.C.E.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, they are all like blinks of an eye in the full course of history.



So you can clearly see that Kashmir is the part of Bharat in ancient India, Ancient Hindustan of Mughal period and India of today (Do I need to provide the neutral third party map for this.)

Israel being on the Indian side will be definitely be considerate about security of India.


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## Developereo

R.A.W. said:


> So you can clearly see that Kashmir is the part of Bharat in ancient India, Ancient Hindustan of Mughal period and India of today (Do I need to provide the neutral third party map for this.)



Actually, for most of its history, except for very brief periods as indicated above, there _was_ no India. How could Kashmir be part of a nonexistent entity?



R.A.W. said:


> Israel being on the Indian side will be definitely be considerate about security of India.



Israel will be considerate of its own citizens. It will help India in as far as it conincides with its national interests.


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## R.A.W.

Developereo said:


> Actually, for most of its history, except for very brief periods as indicated above, there _was_ no India. How could Kashmir be part of a nonexistent entity?



Well these brief period can be extended to the following also with changing demographies.


















Developereo said:


> Israel will be considerate of its own citizens. It will help India in as far as it conincides with its national interests.



Yes each country cares for themselves first. Since both the nations have similar threat from terrorists this forms a common platform for them to fight the resisting and terrorist forces.


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## Developereo

R.A.W. said:


> Well these brief period can be extended to the following also with changing demographies.



All these period still don't add up to more than a blink of an eye. You are actually proving the point that India is an artificial entity held together only by force for brief periods, but which broke apart at every opportunity.

In any case, what matters now is what the current residents of Kashmir want.



R.A.W. said:


> Yes each country cares for themselves first. Since both the nations have similar threat from terrorists this forms a common platform for them to fight the resisting and terrorist forces.



Both countries share the ideology of suppressing the right of self-determination for people in their neighborhood.

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## R.A.W.

Developereo said:


> All these period still don't add up to more than a blink of an eye. You are actually proving the point that India is an artificial entity held together only by force for brief periods, but which broke apart at every opportunity.
> 
> In any case, what matters now is what the current residents of Kashmir want.



Vedic + gupta + dharampala + maurya + mughal + devpala. Is it still a blink of an eye, and if you look closely that I have excluded many other dynasties. And the general observation would be Kashmir has been the part of India in each. 

There is hardly any real entity on the planet which is in the same original form as it was 1000 year back. So do you mean to say everyone was holding everyone by force.

Current residents of Kashmir have already chosen their government. Here is the independent link for the elections being fair 

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Kashmir elections 'fair but not free'



Developereo said:


> Both countries share the ideology of suppressing the right of self-determination for people in their neighborhood.



Nah if we were to suppress the right we would have already did that with the creation of Pakistan......


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## gubbi

Developereo said:


> All these period still don't add up to more than a blink of an eye. You are actually proving the point that India is an artificial entity held together only by force for brief periods, but which broke apart at every opportunity.


Whatever makes you happy mate. The truth still stands contrary to some of the most whimsical ideas being floated around. You shall never understand that even though the land had many a small kingdoms and various cultures etc, they all considered themselves as one people. 
Read the Mahabharatha or the Ramayana before that, two of the epic poems from ancient Bharat! The concept of India (rather Bharat) is very well descried in those poems. Now if you cannot comprehend that, then surely you do deserve my pity.
"Dont have an identity? Deny others' having/existing one!"
As for rebuttals, I am still waiting for yours instead of usual rants and denials. Though I have come not to expect realization and acceptance of truth, yet, I suggest reread your post and mine prior to and after yours.


> Both countries share the ideology of suppressing the right of self-determination for people in their neighborhood.


Wrong! One simply cannot club them together, for there are vast differences even if we share many similarities! We have come a long way dear, even if its only ~60 yrs!

Thank you.


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## Kasrkin

*Back to the topic please. Thanks!*


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## SinoIndusFriendship

In other words, Israel is hinting that it will do another False Flag terror attack on India. The Mumbai one didn't get the attention it sought....

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## R.A.W.

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> In other words, Israel is hinting that it will do another False Flag terror attack on India. The Mumbai one didn't get the attention it sought....



Sir before making any BS claims it would be nice of you if you have the slightest proof that Israel was involved or Indians were involved please do enlighten us. 

*Face the sunshine Mr. Ajmal Kasab is the resident of Pakistan and has been found guilty of terrorism in India. *

Oh now dont tell me Ajmal Kasab is jew and he is not Pakistani because he does not look like one.


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## Developereo

gubbi said:


> Wrong! One simply cannot club them together, for there are vast differences even if we share many similarities! We have come a long way dear, even if its only ~60 yrs!
> 
> Thank you.



So, getting back to topic, has Israel provided any hard evidence of an impending attack?

And I _would_ appreciate a straight answer, instead of dismissing any tough question as a rant, or veering off into mythology when verifiable facts prove inconvenient.


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## gubbi

Developereo said:


> So, getting back to topic, has Israel provided any hard evidence of an impending attack?
> 
> And I _would_ appreciate a straight answer, instead of dismissing any tough question as a rant, or veering off into mythology when verifiable facts prove inconvenient.



I am not privy to sensitive intelligence matters, so cannot comment on the hard evidence thing. Neither do I find any reports which might indicate that. You may be right there. That being said, why would Israel suddenly announce such a thing? No elections in either country, no pending defense deals, no major cultural events between the two countries etc. "The timing is suspicious" cannot be said for this particular warning.

As to your straight answer, I just gave you one, you cannot see it even if its in front of you in your blind belief in your own theory! As to calling those two epics as mythology, there are various reports about the authenticity of many events taking place during the time. What Koran is to a Muslim population, Bhagvad Geeta is to a majority of the people of the subcontinent. The world calls them Hindus and those two epics form the basis of what we consider to be Bharat Varsha, or the present day India. The concept of Bharat (named after Lord Ram's brother Bharatha from the Ramayana - which precedes even the Mahabharatha!) is older than the scriptures, my friend.
FYI Religion is a mythology, tearing apart the very fabric of human existence. Prove its truth if you can.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

R.A.W. said:


> First what has maoist and naxals have to do with the mumbai attacks



As the UN General Assembly talks are underway, indian are making a huge commotion about some "imminent plot from across the border"

meanwhile, your PM is saying that the biggest threat to hindoostan is coming from within its soil. 

The naxals have caused more damage, destruction and death. Furthermore, they are ALREADY in india and are giving your forces a run for your money. I believe there are already 13 "naxal-affected" states?


therefore, focus more on internal problems --rather than using "foreign backed terrorism" as a ground to beg nations to stop selling us defence equipment. You tried with Brazil, it failed. You tried with Germany, it failed. 

Move on and clean up your own house, kiddo.




> And dont worry about them their A$$ are getting whipped as we talk with the COBRA doing the operations.



a few "squirmishes" here and there is not convincing. As stated earlier, naxals control 13 states and central and local govts. are seeming to be powerless




> Third  Yes India separated from Pakistan and India asked Pakistan to give a separate land. Cant reply you on this one.........




the movement for Pakistan began way before partition. More importantly, we were first to get independence. 

Alhamdolillah.


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## R.A.W.

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> As the UN General Assembly talks are underway, indian are making a huge commotion about some "imminent plot from across the border"
> 
> meanwhile, your PM is saying that the biggest threat to hindoostan is coming from within its soil.
> 
> The naxals have caused more damage, destruction and death. Furthermore, they are ALREADY in india and are giving your forces a run for your money. I believe there are already 13 "naxal-affected" states?
> 
> 
> therefore, focus more on internal problems --rather than using "foreign backed terrorism" as a ground to beg nations to stop selling us defence equipment. You tried with Brazil, it failed. You tried with Germany, it failed.
> 
> Move on and clean up your own house, kiddo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a few "squirmishes" here and there is not convincing. As stated earlier, naxals control 13 states and central and local govts. are seeming to be powerless
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the movement for Pakistan began way before partition. More importantly, we were first to get independence.
> 
> Alhamdolillah.



No one denies the fact the naxals on the threat list. even pakistan is fighting the talibans. So does that mean Indians can go ahead and do anything in Pakistan and Pakistan should be quite about it. 

And regarding skirmishes it is ful fledged operation going on right now.

yes you got independence one day before. Or you want to say you are one more gem from Pakistan who says India never existed before 1947....  reply for that please refer the previous posts. Bharant vansh, Chandragupta maurya, Ashoka, Mughals I think they were rulers of India... not some other place.


----------



## Developereo

gubbi said:


> I am not privy to sensitive intelligence matters, so cannot comment on the hard evidence thing. Neither do I find any reports which might indicate that. You may be right there.



Glad we got that straight.



gubbi said:


> That being said, why would Israel suddenly announce such a thing?



To help MM Singh remove the foot from his mouth when he voiced the same concern a few weeks back and had to back down when Pakistan demanded evidence?



gubbi said:


> As to your straight answer, I just gave you one, you cannot see it even if its in front of you in your blind belief in your own theory!



Umm, no, I appreciate a straight answer. Especially when people have the honesty to admit there is no credible evidence.



gubbi said:


> As to calling those two epics as mythology, there are various reports about the authenticity of many events taking place during the time. What Koran is to a Muslim population, Bhagvad Geeta is to a majority of the people of the subcontinent. The world calls them Hindus and those two epics form the basis of what we consider to be Bharat Varsha, or the present day India. The concept of Bharat (named after Lord Ram's brother Bharatha from the Ramayana - which precedes even the Mahabharatha!) is older than the scriptures, my friend.
> FYI Religion is a mythology, tearing apart the very fabric of human existence. Prove its truth if you can.



I don't dispute the importance or antiquity of Hindu scriptures. I used the term mythology because they also mention flying machines and all sort of other things. In any case, I agree that all religions have elements of mythology and prefer to leave religion, mythology, etc. out of this discussion.


----------



## Peshwa

Developereo said:


> Not so much mythology when "flying machines and all sort of other things" actually exist in today's day and age.....


----------



## Peshwa

Developereo said:


> So, getting back to topic, has Israel provided any hard evidence of an impending attack?
> 
> And I _would_ appreciate a straight answer, instead of dismissing any tough question as a rant, or veering off into mythology when verifiable facts prove inconvenient.



Develpereo:

As Gubbi mentioned, information channeled to the us ordinary folks is limited to what we receive from newspapers and TV based news reports.....The "hard" evidence or a hunch.....must have been provided to the Indian authorities....
Now you obviously cant dismiss the credibility of the report just because a member on the forum does not have details on the evidence....I think thats a bit unreasonable....

The report is just a warning, sort of a red flag to get our ducks in order to avoid a 26/11 type scenario....no one is saying that India will mobilize troops based on the report from Israel....But you have to admit that the Israleli's are the kings of espionage and their warning cannot be taken lightly.....

To give you an equivalent example:
India is accused of interfering in Baluchistan, but except for the "too many consulates" and "uncircumcized penis(es)" we havent really heard much "hard evidence"....and I doubt you're privy to such details either.....

So lets just leave it at that instead of trivializing our concerns.....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Abu Zolfiqar

R.A.W. said:


> yes you got independence one day before. Or you want to say you are one more gem from Pakistan who says India never existed before 1947....  reply for that please refer the previous posts. Bharant vansh, Chandragupta maurya, Ashoka, Mughals I think they were rulers of India... not some other place.



there you go. So that makes us an older country (by a slim 24 hour margin)

india was not india before 1947.....it was just a loose collection of nation states that were hardly united. You can keep posting maps. They mean squat.

but on the subject of india, i'd say they were most prosperous under Islamic rule. Yesterday it was communal issues. Today in india their problem is caste politics and inferiority complex


----------



## Metallic

*Pakistan adjourns Mumbai attack hearing: lawyer *
*PAKISTAN - 26 SEPTEMBER 2009*

RAWALPINDI: A Pakistani court on Saturday adjourned until October 3 a hearing for seven suspects accused by India of carrying out the Mumbai attacks that killed 166 people, a lawyer said.

India and Washington blamed the November attacks on Pakistan's banned militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) and the siege stalled a fragile four-year peace process between the two nuclear-armed south Asian rivals.

Pakistan confirmed last Saturday that seven suspects had been arrested in connection with the attacks and vowed to secure convictions in a special court, which has been conducted so far behind closed doors.

'The judge was on leave today so the hearing could not take place. The next date of hearing is October 3,' Shahbaz Rajput, a defence lawyer representing two of the suspects, told AFP.

The anti-terrorism court has been set up in the high-security Adiala jail in Rawalpindi, a garrison city adjoining the capital, Islamabad.

Interior Minister Rehman Malik said last Saturday that the seven men would soon be charged over the 60-hour rampage but called on India to provide more information to bring the perpetrators to justice.

Court officials say those in custody include the alleged mastermind Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi and alleged key LeT operative Zarar Shah.

India has put on trial Pakistan's Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, the sole surviving gunman of the Mumbai attacks and who has made a dramatic confession.

India insists it will resume talks to normalise ties only after Pakistan brings to justice the alleged perpetrators and has blamed Pakistani 'official agencies' for abetting the assault which Islamabad flatly denies.

*India has put on trial Pakistan's Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, the sole surviving gunman of the Mumbai attacks and who has made a dramatic confession.  File Photo *



_Source: DAWN Media Group_


----------



## Born In The USA

Network of Militants Is Robust After Mumbai Siege

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/30/world/asia/30mumbai.html?pagewanted=4&hp


KARACHI, Pakistan  Ten months after the devastating attacks in Mumbai by Pakistan-based militants, the group behind the assault remains largely intact and determined to strike India again, according to current and former members of the group, Lashkar-e-Taiba, and intelligence officials. 

Despite pledges from Pakistan to dismantle militant groups operating on its soil, and the arrest of a handful of operatives, Lashkar has persisted, even flourished, since 10 recruits killed 163 people in a rampage through Mumbai, Indias financial capital, last November.

Indian and Pakistani dossiers on the Mumbai investigations, copies of which were obtained by The New York Times, offer a detailed picture of the operations of a Lashkar network that spans Pakistan. It included four houses and two training camps here in this sprawling southern port city that were used to prepare the attacks.

Among the organizers, the Pakistani document says, was Hammad Amin Sadiq, a homeopathic pharmacist, who arranged bank accounts and secured supplies. He and six others begin their formal trial on Saturday in Pakistan, though Indian authorities say the prosecution stops well short of top Lashkar leaders.

Indeed, Lashkars broader network endures, and can be mobilized quickly for elaborate attacks with relatively few resources, according to a dozen current and former Lashkar militants and intelligence officials from the United States, Europe, India and Pakistan.

In interviews with The Times, they presented a troubling portrait of Lashkars capabilities, its popularity in Pakistan and the support it has received from former officials of Pakistans military and intelligence establishment.

Pakistans chief spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, or ISI, helped create Lashkar two decades ago to challenge Indian control in Kashmir, the disputed territory that lies at the heart of the conflict between the nuclear-armed neighbors.

Pakistani officials say that after Sept. 11, 2001, they broke their contacts with the group. No credible evidence has emerged of Pakistani government involvement in the Mumbai attacks, according to an American law enforcement official.

But a senior American intelligence official said the ISI was believed to maintain ties with Lashkar. Four Lashkar members, interviewed individually, said only a thin distance separated Lashkar and the ISI, bridged by former ISI and military officials.

One highly placed Lashkar militant said the Mumbai attackers were part of groups trained by former Pakistani military and intelligence officials at Lashkar camps. Others had direct knowledge that retired army and ISI officials trained Lashkar recruits as late as last year.

Some people of the ISI knew about the plan and closed their eyes, said one senior Lashkar operative in Karachi who said he had met some of the gunmen before they left for the Mumbai assault, though he did not know what their mission would be.

The intelligence officials interviewed insisted on anonymity while discussing classified information. The current and former Lashkar militants did not want their names used for fear of antagonizing others in the group or Pakistani authorities.

But by all accounts Lashkars network, though dormant, remains alive, and the possibility that it could strike India again makes Lashkar a wild card in one of the most volatile regions of the world.

India and Pakistan have fought three wars since they were created by the bloody partition of British India in 1947. Whether they begin again the long journey toward peace or find themselves eyeball to eyeball, nuclear arms at the ready, depends in no small measure on the actions of this shadowy group.

A new attack could reverberate widely through the region and revive nagging questions about Pakistans commitment to stamp out the militant groups that use its territory.

It could also dangerously complicate the Obama administrations efforts in Afghanistan. Success there depends in part on avoiding open conflict between India and Pakistan, so that Pakistans military can focus on battling the Taliban insurgents who base themselves in Pakistan.

Even so, American diplomatic efforts to improve India-Pakistan relations have been stillborn. So delicate is the Kashmir issue that Indian officials bridle at any hint of American mediation.

Meeting on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly, the two sides failed to restart talks last weekend, with India demanding greater steps by Pakistan to prosecute those responsible for the Mumbai attacks.

The dossiers show that at the level of the police, the two countries can cooperate, and have exchanged DNA evidence, photographs and items found with the attackers to piece together a detailed portrait of the Mumbai plot. 

But the files are laced with barbs and recriminations, reflecting the increasingly acid tenor of their relations. Despite pledges to work together to fight terrorism, the Pakistani and Indian intelligence services are not on speaking terms, according to officials in both countries and the United States.

The gaps heighten the risks of a new attack substantially, American officials fear.

The only cooperation we have with the Pakistanis is that they send us their terrorists, who kill our people, and we kill their terrorists, a senior Indian intelligence official said in an interview.

Asked how much his agency communicated with its Indian counterpart, a senior Pakistani intelligence official made an O with his thumb and forefinger.

Zero, he replied.

Brazen Planning

The Pakistani investigation concludes beyond any reasonable doubt that it was Lashkar militants who carried out the Mumbai attacks, preying on their victims in a train station, two five-star hotels, a cafe and a Jewish center over three days starting last Nov. 26.

According to testimony by the only surviving attacker, Ajmal Kasab, 22, Lashkar recruits were vetted and trained around the country, including at well-established camps in Muzaffarabad, in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir, as well as in Mansehra, in North-West Frontier Province.

A core group, the 10 chosen for the Mumbai assault, was eventually moved to Karachi and its suburbs, where the real drilling began and where Pakistani investigators later retraced the plotters steps.

Beginning as early as May 2008, the group trained and planned brazenly while living in various neighborhoods in and around Karachi. They made scores of calls using cellphones, some with stolen numbers, starting in August. They set up voice lines over the Internet.

At one water sports shop, they bought inflatable boats, air pumps, life jackets and engines. One of their training camps, with five thatched rooms and a three-room house, was located near a creek, where they conducted water drills in the open.

The police later recovered an abundance of evidence: militant literature, pocket diaries, spent and live ammunition, empty gun magazines, life vests and receipts for supplies, including distributed weapons and explosives, the Pakistani dossier says.

At the other camp, which they named Azizabad, the group and their trainers set up a classroom.

Using handwritten manuals, the recruits were trained how to use cellphones to keep in contact with their handlers during the attack. They pored over detailed maps of the Indian coastline, plotting the course they would take to Mumbai. They learned how to use global positioning devices.

Working from Millat Town, a dusty, middle-class Karachi suburb on the eastern edge of the city, Mr. Sadiq organized the cadre. Neighbors described him as quiet and pious, riding around the streets with his two young sons perched on his motorbike. The Pakistani dossier says he was a committed Lashkar militant.

In an interview, his uncle, Lala Yasin, said the same thing, adding proudly that Mr. Sadiq was willing to do anything to liberate Kashmir from Indias grip.

Lashkar-e-Taiba does not kill people without reason, Mr. Yasin said at his home in Karachi, a few blocks from where his nephew planned the Mumbai attacks.

It is the champion of jihad, he explained. Muslims are like a body and if one part of your body is aching, the entire body may be jeopardized.

A Limited Crackdown

Pakistani authorities have arrested seven men linked to the Mumbai attack, including Mr. Sadiq and Zaki ur-Rehman Lakhvi, a man well known as the chief of operations for Lashkar. They are searching for at least 13 other suspects.

But their investigation has come up short of the founder of Lashkar, Hafiz Saeed, the man Indian and Western officials accuse of masterminding the attacks.

In June, a Pakistani court freed Mr. Saeed from detention, declaring that it did not have enough evidence to hold him. He now has an international warrant out for his arrest, issued by Interpol.

Under continuing pressure, Pakistani authorities this month confined his movements once again. But they say they have no new evidence against him.

Rehman Malik, Pakistans interior minister, said that there was simply not enough evidence to charge Mr. Saeed with a crime, and that all the evidence pointed to Mr. Lakhvi as the mastermind.

Lakhvi was the head, and that is why he has been taken into custody, Mr. Malik said in an interview. He has been charged and now they are all under trial. 

Indian officials say they have sent Pakistan a six-page summary of evidence of Mr. Saeeds complicity in the Mumbai attacks, a copy of which was given to The Times. The document, based on Indias own intelligence and testimony from Mr. Kasab, quotes Mr. Saeed giving detailed instructions to the group that carried out the attack.

One Hindustani boat has to be hijacked for going to Bombay from Karachi, the document says, using Mumbais former name. Mr. Saeed also told the group that it should aim to begin the assault around 7:30 p.m.

At this hour there is considerable crowd at the places of our target, the document quotes him as saying.

Pakistani officials and legal experts say the evidence is not as clear-cut as India says. The case against Mr. Saeed rests almost entirely on the testimony of Mr. Kasab, the surviving attacker, and serious questions remain about the way the Indian police obtained his statements, they say.

Jamaat-ud-Dawa, the organization Mr. Saeed now leads, bills itself as a charity and denies any links with Lashkar. Abdur Rahman Makki, Mr. Saeeds deputy and brother-in-law, called any accusations against Mr. Saeed baseless.

I do not think that there is anything left to talk about after the High Courts decision that Hafez Saeed has no link to the Mumbai incident, he said in an interview.

Yet he was not shy about admitting that Mr. Saeed, a fiery preacher, regularly exhorted young people to fight in Kashmir. Hafiz Saeed always speaks and discusses about the jihad that is mentioned in the Holy Koran, Mr. Makki said. Not only Pakistanis, any Muslim has the duty to support the oppressed Kashmiris.

All parts of India where Muslims are a majority must be freed, he said.

Meanwhile, despite promises to crack down on terrorists, Pakistans government has taken few concrete steps.

The former director of Pakistans elite national investigative force was appointed to lead the countrys new counterterrorism body in January. But it took seven months to get any money to get the agency moving, and only now is it beginning to hire staff members and flesh out its mission, law enforcement officials said.

Cracking down on Lashkar and other groups linked to the Kashmir struggle, and who do not explicitly seek to overthrow Pakistans government, was not urgent, they said.

I have many other things that are higher priority now, said one senior police official in Punjab, the province where DNA tests pinpointed the families of the Mumbai attackers, according to the dossier. Why would a case in Mumbai be so important when Pakistan is the front line of the war on terror?

Links to Intelligence Agencies

For Pakistani authorities, the political problems posed by arresting Mr. Saeed, or undertaking a broader crackdown on Lashkar, may outstrip the legal ones.

The organization and its cause  to free Kashmir  remain close to the hearts of the Pakistani public as well as the military and intelligence establishment.

Since the Mumbai attacks, our funds increased and more people wanted to join us, a senior Lashkar operative in Karachi said in an interview. A midlevel ISI officer told The Times this year that Lashkars membership extended to 150,000 people.

Despite official denials, Pakistans spy agency, the ISI, maintains links to Lashkar, though the current level of support remains murky, according to the senior American intelligence official interviewed by The Times, as well as Pakistani analysts, retired military officials and former Lashkar members.

Hafiz Saeed is the armys man, said Najam Sethi, an analyst and newspaper editor in Lahore, Pakistan. He and other analysts said the ISI was in no hurry to discard a group it helped create for a covert war against India.

They have not abandoned it altogether, said Hasan Askari Rizvi, a military analyst in Lahore. It is not a total reversal; it is a realization that this is not advisable at this time.

Senior ISI officials disputed the view. While acknowledging that the ISI had worked closely with Lashkar-e-Taiba in the past, they said things were different now. 

Prior to 9/11, we had a very strong contact with L.E.T., even on the leadership level, one senior Pakistani intelligence official said in an interview. But after 9/11, we broke our contacts with not only L.E.T. but also the Taliban.

Today we think that it would have been better if we had not cut our ties with them the way we did, the official added, so that we could control them more.

A senior Lashkar militant said the group was divided  with the operational wing, led by Mr. Lakhvi, chafing for more attacks on India, and the spiritual wing, led by Mr. Saeed, advocating a more cautious approach.

The senior Pakistani intelligence official said that some within Lashkar might aspire to a more ambitious agenda, and suggested that parts of the group might have acted on their own.

Lashkar went rogue, the Pakistani intelligence official said. Perhaps L.E.T. or dissident factions wanted to emerge as a global player, like Al Qaeda.

New Attacks Expected

Even as new details emerge about the Mumbai attacks, senior American military, intelligence and counterterrorism officials express grim certainty that Lashkar is plotting new attacks.

The United States warned Indian officials this year about a Mumbai-style attack by Lashkar against multiple sites in India, according to a senior Defense Department official and a senior American counterterrorism official.

The counterterrorism official said the information, gleaned from electronic intercepts and other sources, was not specific and apparently did not result in any arrests. But it was significant enough for American officials to alert their Indian counterparts.

There were indications of possible terrorist activity in the run-up to the Indian elections, in May, and that information was shared promptly with Indian officials, said the counterterrorism official.

Pakistani officials, however, say they have been kept in the dark. We heard that the Americans have warned the Indians that something in Mumbai might happen, but no one informed us, a senior Pakistani intelligence official said.

If there is one thing on which intelligence agencies on both sides of the border agree, it is that the consequences of a new attack by Lashkar could be devastating.

We do fear that if something like Mumbai happens in India again, there might be a military reaction from the Indian side and it could trigger into a war, said a senior intelligence official in Pakistan.

Right now we cannot guarantee that it will not happen again, because we do not have any control over it.


----------



## jaunty

*Network of Militants Is Robust After Mumbai Siege--NYT ​*

By LYDIA POLGREEN and SOUAD MEKHENNET
Published: September 29, 2009 


KARACHI, Pakistan  Ten months after the devastating attacks in Mumbai by Pakistan-based militants, the group behind the assault remains largely intact and determined to strike India again, according to current and former members of the group, Lashkar-e-Taiba, and intelligence officials. 

*Despite pledges from Pakistan to dismantle militant groups operating on its soil, and the arrest of a handful of operatives, Lashkar has persisted, even flourished,* since 10 recruits killed 163 people in a rampage through Mumbai, Indias financial capital, last November.

*Indian and Pakistani dossiers on the Mumbai investigations, copies of which were obtained by The New York Times, offer a detailed picture of the operations of a Lashkar network that spans Pakistan. It included four houses and two training camps here in this sprawling southern port city that were used to prepare the attacks.*

Among the organizers, the Pakistani document says, was Hammad Amin Sadiq, a homeopathic pharmacist, who arranged bank accounts and secured supplies. He and six others begin their formal trial on Saturday in Pakistan, though Indian authorities say the prosecution stops well short of top Lashkar leaders.

Indeed, Lashkars broader network endures, and can be mobilized quickly for elaborate attacks with relatively few resources, according to a dozen current and former Lashkar militants and intelligence officials from the United States, Europe, India and Pakistan.

*In interviews with The Times, they presented a troubling portrait of Lashkars capabilities, its popularity in Pakistan and the support it has received from former officials of Pakistans military and intelligence establishment.

Pakistans chief spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, or ISI, helped create Lashkar two decades ago to challenge Indian control in Kashmir, the disputed territory that lies at the heart of the conflict between the nuclear-armed neighbors.*

Pakistani officials say that after Sept. 11, 2001, they broke their contacts with the group. No credible evidence has emerged of Pakistani government involvement in the Mumbai attacks, according to an American law enforcement official.

*But a senior American intelligence official said the ISI was believed to maintain ties with Lashkar. Four Lashkar members, interviewed individually, said only a thin distance separated Lashkar and the ISI, bridged by former ISI and military officials.

One highly placed Lashkar militant said the Mumbai attackers were part of groups trained by former Pakistani military and intelligence officials at Lashkar camps. Others had direct knowledge that retired army and ISI officials trained Lashkar recruits as late as last year.*

*Some people of the ISI knew about the plan and closed their eyes, *said one senior Lashkar operative in Karachi who said he had met some of the gunmen before they left for the Mumbai assault, though he did not know what their mission would be.

The intelligence officials interviewed insisted on anonymity while discussing classified information. The current and former Lashkar militants did not want their names used for fear of antagonizing others in the group or Pakistani authorities.

But by all accounts Lashkars network, though dormant, remains alive, and the possibility that it could strike India again makes Lashkar a wild card in one of the most volatile regions of the world.

India and Pakistan have fought three wars since they were created by the bloody partition of British India in 1947. Whether they begin again the long journey toward peace or find themselves eyeball to eyeball, nuclear arms at the ready, depends in no small measure on the actions of this shadowy group.

A new attack could reverberate widely through the region and revive nagging questions about Pakistans commitment to stamp out the militant groups that use its territory.

It could also dangerously complicate the Obama administrations efforts in Afghanistan. Success there depends in part on avoiding open conflict between India and Pakistan, so that Pakistans military can focus on battling the Taliban insurgents who base themselves in Pakistan.

Even so, American diplomatic efforts to improve India-Pakistan relations have been stillborn. So delicate is the Kashmir issue that Indian officials bridle at any hint of American mediation.

Meeting on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly, the two sides failed to restart talks last weekend, with India demanding greater steps by Pakistan to prosecute those responsible for the Mumbai attacks.

*The dossiers show that at the level of the police, the two countries can cooperate, and have exchanged DNA evidence, photographs and items found with the attackers to piece together a detailed portrait of the Mumbai plot. *

But the files are laced with barbs and recriminations, reflecting the increasingly acid tenor of their relations. Despite pledges to work together to fight terrorism, the Pakistani and Indian intelligence services are not on speaking terms, according to officials in both countries and the United States.

The gaps heighten the risks of a new attack substantially, American officials fear.

The only cooperation we have with the Pakistanis is that they send us their terrorists, who kill our people, and we kill their terrorists, a senior Indian intelligence official said in an interview.

Asked how much his agency communicated with its Indian counterpart, a senior Pakistani intelligence official made an O with his thumb and forefinger.

Zero, he replied.

*Brazen Planning*

*The Pakistani investigation concludes beyond any reasonable doubt that it was Lashkar militants who carried out the Mumbai attacks, *preying on their victims in a train station, two five-star hotels, a cafe and a Jewish center over three days starting last Nov. 26.

*According to testimony by the only surviving attacker, Ajmal Kasab, 22, Lashkar recruits were vetted and trained around the country, including at well-established camps in Muzaffarabad, in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir, as well as in Mansehra, in North-West Frontier Province.*

A core group, the 10 chosen for the Mumbai assault, was eventually moved to Karachi and its suburbs, where the real drilling began and where Pakistani investigators later retraced the plotters steps.

Beginning as early as May 2008, the group trained and planned brazenly while living in various neighborhoods in and around Karachi. They made scores of calls using cellphones, some with stolen numbers, starting in August. They set up voice lines over the Internet.

At one water sports shop, they bought inflatable boats, air pumps, life jackets and engines. One of their training camps, with five thatched rooms and a three-room house, was located near a creek, where they conducted water drills in the open.

*The police later recovered an abundance of evidence: militant literature, pocket diaries, spent and live ammunition, empty gun magazines, life vests and receipts for supplies, including distributed weapons and explosives, the Pakistani dossier says.*

At the other camp, which they named Azizabad, the group and their trainers set up a classroom.

Using handwritten manuals, the recruits were trained how to use cellphones to keep in contact with their handlers during the attack. They pored over detailed maps of the Indian coastline, plotting the course they would take to Mumbai. They learned how to use global positioning devices.

Working from Millat Town, a dusty, middle-class Karachi suburb on the eastern edge of the city, Mr. Sadiq organized the cadre. Neighbors described him as quiet and pious, riding around the streets with his two young sons perched on his motorbike. *The Pakistani dossier says he was a committed Lashkar militant.*

In an interview, his uncle, Lala Yasin, said the same thing, adding proudly that Mr. Sadiq was willing to do anything to liberate Kashmir from Indias grip.

*Lashkar-e-Taiba does not kill people without reason,* Mr. Yasin said at his home in Karachi, a few blocks from where his nephew planned the Mumbai attacks.

*It is the champion of jihad,* he explained. Muslims are like a body and if one part of your body is aching, the entire body may be jeopardized.

*A Limited Crackdown*

*Pakistani authorities have arrested seven men linked to the Mumbai attack, including Mr. Sadiq and Zaki ur-Rehman Lakhvi, a man well known as the chief of operations for Lashkar.* They are searching for at least 13 other suspects.

*But their investigation has come up short of the founder of Lashkar, Hafiz Saeed, the man Indian and Western officials accuse of masterminding the attacks.*

In June, a Pakistani court freed Mr. Saeed from detention, declaring that it did not have enough evidence to hold him. *He now has an international warrant out for his arrest, issued by Interpol.
*
Under continuing pressure, Pakistani authorities this month confined his movements once again. But they say they have no new evidence against him.

Rehman Malik, Pakistans interior minister, said that there was simply not enough evidence to charge Mr. Saeed with a crime, and that all the evidence pointed to Mr. Lakhvi as the mastermind.

Lakhvi was the head, and that is why he has been taken into custody, Mr. Malik said in an interview. He has been charged and now they are all under trial. 

*Indian officials say they have sent Pakistan a six-page summary of evidence of Mr. Saeeds complicity in the Mumbai attacks, a copy of which was given to The Times. The document, based on Indias own intelligence and testimony from Mr. Kasab, quotes Mr. Saeed giving detailed instructions to the group that carried out the attack.*

One Hindustani boat has to be hijacked for going to Bombay from Karachi, the document says, using Mumbais former name. Mr. Saeed also told the group that it should aim to begin the assault around 7:30 p.m.

At this hour there is considerable crowd at the places of our target, the document quotes him as saying.

*Pakistani officials and legal experts say the evidence is not as clear-cut as India says. The case against Mr. Saeed rests almost entirely on the testimony of Mr. Kasab,* the surviving attacker, and serious questions remain about the way the Indian police obtained his statements, they say.

Jamaat-ud-Dawa, the organization Mr. Saeed now leads, bills itself as a charity and denies any links with Lashkar. Abdur Rahman Makki, Mr. Saeeds deputy and brother-in-law, called any accusations against Mr. Saeed baseless.

I do not think that there is anything left to talk about after the High Courts decision that Hafez Saeed has no link to the Mumbai incident, he said in an interview.

*Yet he was not shy about admitting that Mr. Saeed, a fiery preacher, regularly exhorted young people to fight in Kashmir. Hafiz Saeed always speaks and discusses about the jihad that is mentioned in the Holy Koran,* Mr. Makki said. Not only Pakistanis, any Muslim has the duty to support the oppressed Kashmiris.

*All parts of India where Muslims are a majority must be freed, he said.
*
Meanwhile, *despite promises to crack down on terrorists, Pakistans government has taken few concrete steps.*

The former director of Pakistans elite national investigative force was appointed to lead the countrys new counterterrorism body in January. But it took seven months to get any money to get the agency moving, and only now is it beginning to hire staff members and flesh out its mission, law enforcement officials said.

Cracking down on Lashkar and other groups linked to the Kashmir struggle, and who do not explicitly seek to overthrow Pakistans government, was not urgent, they said.

*I have many other things that are higher priority now, said one senior police official in Punjab, the province where DNA tests pinpointed the families of the Mumbai attackers, according to the dossier. Why would a case in Mumbai be so important when Pakistan is the front line of the war on terror?*

*Links to Intelligence Agencies*

*For Pakistani authorities, the political problems posed by arresting Mr. Saeed, or undertaking a broader crackdown on Lashkar, may outstrip the legal ones.
*
The organization and its cause  to free Kashmir  remain close to the hearts of the Pakistani public as well as the military and intelligence establishment.

*Since the Mumbai attacks, our funds increased and more people wanted to join us, a senior Lashkar operative in Karachi said in an interview.* A midlevel ISI officer told The Times this year that Lashkars membership extended to 150,000 people.

*Despite official denials, Pakistans spy agency, the ISI, maintains links to Lashkar, though the current level of support remains murky, according to the senior American intelligence official interviewed by The Times, as well as Pakistani analysts, retired military officials and former Lashkar members.
*
Hafiz Saeed is the armys man, said Najam Sethi, an analyst and newspaper editor in Lahore, Pakistan. He and other analysts said the ISI was in no hurry to discard a group it helped create for a covert war against India.

They have not abandoned it altogether, said Hasan Askari Rizvi, a military analyst in Lahore. It is not a total reversal; it is a realization that this is not advisable at this time.

Senior ISI officials disputed the view. While acknowledging that the ISI had worked closely with Lashkar-e-Taiba in the past, they said things were different now. 

*Prior to 9/11, we had a very strong contact with L.E.T., even on the leadership level,* one senior Pakistani intelligence official said in an interview. *But after 9/11, we broke our contacts with not only L.E.T. but also the Taliban.*

*Today we think that it would have been better if we had not cut our ties with them the way we did, the official added, so that we could control them more.
*
A senior Lashkar militant said the group was divided  with the operational wing, led by Mr. Lakhvi, chafing for more attacks on India, and the spiritual wing, led by Mr. Saeed, advocating a more cautious approach.

The senior Pakistani intelligence official said that some within Lashkar might aspire to a more ambitious agenda, and suggested that parts of the group might have acted on their own.

Lashkar went rogue, the Pakistani intelligence official said. Perhaps L.E.T. or dissident factions wanted to emerge as a global player, like Al Qaeda.

*New Attacks Expected*

Even as new details emerge about the Mumbai attacks, senior American military, intelligence and counterterrorism officials express grim certainty that Lashkar is plotting new attacks.

*The United States warned Indian officials this year about a Mumbai-style attack by Lashkar against multiple sites in India, according to a senior Defense Department official and a senior American counterterrorism official.*

The counterterrorism official said the information, gleaned from electronic intercepts and other sources, was not specific and apparently did not result in any arrests. But it was significant enough for American officials to alert their Indian counterparts.

There were indications of possible terrorist activity in the run-up to the Indian elections, in May, and that information was shared promptly with Indian officials, said the counterterrorism official.

Pakistani officials, however, say they have been kept in the dark. We heard that the Americans have warned the Indians that something in Mumbai might happen, but no one informed us, a senior Pakistani intelligence official said.

*If there is one thing on which intelligence agencies on both sides of the border agree, it is that the consequences of a new attack by Lashkar could be devastating.*

We do fear that if something like Mumbai happens in India again, there might be a military reaction from the Indian side and it could trigger into a war, said a senior intelligence official in Pakistan.

Right now we cannot guarantee that it will not happen again, because we do not have any control over it.


----------



## jaunty

Justifying Jihad- Video

The uncle of the man accused of organizing last year's attacks in India says his nephew supported jihad, but was not involved. A leader of another group(Hafeez Saeed) accused shares the sentiment.

Justifying Jihad - Video Library - The New York Times


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## EjazR

These self-styled "defenders " of Islam are the real enemies of Islam. They brainwash gullible people, feed them propaganda of atrocities and then let them be used for their political ends.

When a nation provides freedom of religion to its citizen the question of Jihad does not arise period. Its time for GoP to take this false ideology by the horns.


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## hembo

You beat me to post this article. Few important things that are highlighted:

1. L-e-T is still very much active inside Pak, albeight, covertly.

2. GOP, without any doubt, agrees that the Mumbai carnage was planned and executed by L-e-T.

3. ISI, though still has some sort of contact with the group, doesn't have absolute control over its operations anymore. Although, some people of the ISI knew about the attack plan and closed their eyes.

4. The little action on the L-e-T operatives, Mumbai attackers is mostly because of non-preferential (and perhaps lackluster, to some extent) attitude, especially in view of the ongoing WOT within.

5. Hardcore Islamist fundamentalism is the true driving force with the L-e-T leaders and operatives. (I always felt why these criminals don't go a fight in Chechnya and Palestine too if their heart bleeds for Muslim sufferings only. It&#8217;s such a hypocritical argument anyway).

6. L-e-T is still capable of trying (and perhaps planning at this very moment) to carry out similar attacks inside India. This is serious. The same has been warned by USA too.

Most importantly

7. If there is one thing on which intelligence agencies on both sides of the border agree, it is that the consequences of a new attack by Lashkar could be devastating. &#8220;We do fear that if something like Mumbai happens in India again, there might be a military reaction from the Indian side and it could trigger into a war".


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## Developereo

NYT again? Yawn.

Must be a slow news day.

The Gray Lady, she is a-flailin' for attention...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## blueoval79

Pakistan's own investigation into 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks concludes "beyond any reasonable doubt" that it was militants from the terror group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) who carried out the carnage, according to the New York Times.

Among the organizers, the Pakistani investigation document says, was Hammad Amin Sadiq, a homeopathic pharmacist, who arranged bank accounts and secured supplies.

Pakistani and Indian dossiers on the Mumbai investigations, copies of which the Times said were obtained by it, offer a detailed picture of the operations of a Lashkar network that spans Pakistan. It included four houses and two training camps in Karachi that were used to prepare the 26/11 attacks.

According to testimony by the only surviving attacker, Ajmal Kasab, 22, Lashkar recruits were vetted and trained around the country, including at well-established camps in Muzaffarabad, in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir, as well as in Mansehra, in North-West Frontier Province.

A core group, the 10 chosen for the Mumbai assault, was eventually moved to Karachi and its suburbs, where the real drilling began and where Pakistani investigators later retraced the plotters' steps.

Beginning as early as May 2008, the group trained and planned brazenly while living in various neighborhoods in and around Karachi. They made scores of calls using cellphones, some with stolen numbers, starting in August. They set up voice lines over the Internet.

At one water sports shop, they bought inflatable boats, air pumps, life jackets and engines. One of their training camps, with five thatched rooms and a three-room house, was located near a creek, where they conducted water drills in the open.

Police later recovered an abundance of evidence: militant literature, pocket diaries, spent and live ammunition, empty gun magazines, life vests and receipts for supplies, including distributed weapons and explosives, the Pakistani dossier says, according to the Times.

At the other camp, which they named Azizabad, the group and their trainers set up a classroom.

Using handwritten manuals, the recruits were trained how to use mobile phones to keep in contact with their handlers during the attack. They pored over detailed maps of the Indian coastline, plotting the course they would take to Mumbai. They learned how to use global positioning devices.

Working from Millat Town, a dusty, middle-class Karachi suburb on the eastern edge of the city, Sadiq organized the cadre. Neighbors described him as quiet and pious, riding around the streets with his two young sons perched on his motorbike. The Pakistani dossier, according to the Times, says he was a committed Lashkar militant.

Despite official denials, Pakistan's spy agency, the ISI, maintains links to Lashkar, though the current level of support remains murky, according to the senior American intelligence official interviewed by The Times, as well as Pakistani analysts, retired military officials and former Lashkar members.

Pakistani officials say that after 9/11 they broke their contacts with the group. But a senior American intelligence official cited by the daily said the ISI was believed to maintain ties with Lashkar.

Four Lashkar members, interviewed individually, said only a thin distance separated Lashkar and the ISI, bridged by former ISI and military officials.

One highly placed Lashkar militant was cited as saying that the Mumbai attackers were part of groups trained by former Pakistani military and intelligence officials at Lashkar camps.

Others had direct knowledge that retired army and ISI officials trained Lashkar recruits as late as last year.

Pakistani probe indicts Lashkar for Mumbai attack: NYT- Hindustan Times


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## jaunty

Developereo said:


> NYT again? Yawn.
> 
> Must be a slow news day.
> 
> The Gray Lady, she is a-flailin' for attention...



Oh..come on.

You don't accept NYT, You don't accept BBC, not to talk about Indian media. So what do you accept--the Pakistani news paper that termed Indian female soldiers as prostitutes, using information from their ''reliable source''.

And yes, you might be yawing at this, but this is a matter of serious concern for our country. 

So don't troll if you don't have anything substantial to say. Its an article from the front page of NYT website.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## hembo

Developereo said:


> NYT again? Yawn.
> 
> Must be a slow news day.
> 
> The Gray Lady, she is a-flailin' for attention...



So, what is your point? You don't agree to some part of the report or you refute the entire report as bogus? Such one liners don't give any substantial input to the discussion. Instead, if you are trying to refute some of the points, do so with some credibility. I am sure you're capable of doing much better then these one liners. I have read your other posts. 

Thanks.


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## ISRO2

Good to see after nearly 1year atleast something came out. Sir have u not got bored by 26/11? Well its kind of boring now to hear what pace everything going on. Slow pace is an insult to india and victims of 26/11. You should post new thread on braking news that america yesterday warned that L.E.T in pakistan planning 26/11 part II. i hope you have read that news yesterday.


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## grey boy 2

ISRO2 said:


> Good to see after nearly 1year atleast something came out. Sir have u not got bored by 26/11? Well its kind of boring now to hear what pace everything going on. Slow pace is an insult to india and victims of 26/11. You should post new thread on braking news that america yesterday warned that L.E.T in pakistan planning 26/11 part II. i hope you have read that news yesterday.



SIR; I fully agreed with you feeling boring the pace of 26/11, insult to

India SIR; But can you tell me whats BRAKING news ? SIR;

Regard SIR.


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## Developereo

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/31811-western-media-s-war-pakistan.html

It's the same old bullcrap as the Harpoon story. Anonymous sources, vague statements, verbatim Indian propaganda. There is nothing new in this "story". Not one single factual statement that isn't already known.

NYT's readership in the US has fallen to an all-time low. In their desperation, they are pathetically flailing about for sensationalism.


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## Born In The USA

original nyt article - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/30/world/asia/30mumbai.html?_r=1&pagewanted=4&hp


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## Khajur

edit:double post


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## Khajur

Militant Group Is Intact After Mumbai Siege 

By LYDIA POLGREEN and SOUAD MEKHENNET
Published: September 29, 2009 

KARACHI, Pakistan  Ten months after the devastating attacks in Mumbai by Pakistan-based militants, the group behind the assault remains largely intact and determined to strike India again, according to current and former members of the group, Lashkar-e-Taiba, and intelligence officials. 
Despite pledges from Pakistan to dismantle militant groups operating on its soil, and the arrest of a handful of operatives, Lashkar has persisted, even flourished, since 10 recruits killed 163 people in a rampage through Mumbai, Indias financial capital, last November.

Indian and Pakistani dossiers on the Mumbai investigations, copies of which were obtained by The New York Times, offer a detailed picture of the operations of a Lashkar network that spans Pakistan. It included four houses and two training camps here in this sprawling southern port city that were used to prepare the attacks.

Among the organizers, the Pakistani document says, was Hammad Amin Sadiq, a homeopathic pharmacist, who arranged bank accounts and secured supplies. He and six others begin their formal trial on Saturday in Pakistan, though Indian authorities say the prosecution stops well short of top Lashkar leaders. 

Indeed, Lashkars broader network endures, and can be mobilized quickly for elaborate attacks with relatively few resources, according to a dozen current and former Lashkar militants and intelligence officials from the United States, Europe, India and Pakistan. 

In interviews with The Times, they presented a troubling portrait of Lashkars capabilities, its popularity in Pakistan and the support it has received from former officials of Pakistans military and intelligence establishment.

Pakistans chief spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, or ISI, helped create Lashkar two decades ago to challenge Indian control in Kashmir, the disputed territory that lies at the heart of the conflict between the nuclear-armed neighbors. 

Pakistani officials say that after Sept. 11, 2001, they broke their contacts with the group. No credible evidence has emerged of Pakistani government involvement in the Mumbai attacks, according to an American law enforcement official. 

But a senior American intelligence official said the ISI was believed to maintain ties with Lashkar. Four Lashkar members, interviewed individually, said only a thin distance separated Lashkar and the ISI, bridged by former ISI and military officials. 

One highly placed Lashkar militant said the Mumbai attackers were part of groups trained by former Pakistani military and intelligence officials at Lashkar camps. Others had direct knowledge that retired army and ISI officials trained Lashkar recruits as late as last year. 

Some people of the ISI knew about the plan and closed their eyes, said one senior Lashkar operative in Karachi who said he had met some of the gunmen before they left for the Mumbai assault, though he did not know what their mission would be.

The intelligence officials interviewed insisted on anonymity while discussing classified information. The current and former Lashkar militants did not want their names used for fear of antagonizing others in the group or Pakistani authorities. 

But by all accounts Lashkars network, though dormant, remains alive, and the possibility that it could strike India again makes Lashkar a wild card in one of the most volatile regions of the world. 

India and Pakistan have fought three wars since they were created by the bloody partition of British India in 1947. Whether they begin again the long journey toward peace or find themselves eyeball to eyeball, nuclear arms at the ready, depends in no small measure on the actions of this shadowy group. 

A new attack could reverberate widely through the region and revive nagging questions about Pakistans commitment to stamp out the militant groups that use its territory. 

It could also dangerously complicate the Obama administrations efforts in Afghanistan. Success there depends in part on avoiding open conflict between India and Pakistan, so that Pakistans military can focus on battling the Taliban insurgents who base themselves in Pakistan. 

Even so, American diplomatic efforts to improve India-Pakistan relations have been stillborn. So delicate is the Kashmir issue that Indian officials bridle at any hint of American mediation.

Meeting on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly, the two sides failed to restart talks last weekend, with India demanding greater steps by Pakistan to prosecute those responsible for the Mumbai attacks. 

The dossiers show that at the level of the police, the two countries can cooperate, and have exchanged DNA evidence, photographs and items found with the attackers to piece together a detailed portrait of the Mumbai plot. 

But the files are laced with barbs and recriminations, reflecting the increasingly acid tenor of their relations. Despite pledges to work together to fight terrorism, the Pakistani and Indian intelligence services are not on speaking terms, according to officials in both countries and the United States.

The gaps heighten the risks of a new attack substantially, American officials fear.

The only cooperation we have with the Pakistanis is that they send us their terrorists, who kill our people, and we kill their terrorists, a senior Indian intelligence official said in an interview. 

Asked how much his agency communicated with its Indian counterpart, a senior Pakistani intelligence official made an O with his thumb and forefinger.

Zero, he replied. 

Brazen Planning

The Pakistani investigation concludes beyond any reasonable doubt that it was Lashkar militants who carried out the Mumbai attacks, preying on their victims in a train station, two five-star hotels, a cafe and a Jewish center over three days starting last Nov. 26. 

According to testimony by the only surviving attacker, Ajmal Kasab, 22, Lashkar recruits were vetted and trained around the country, including at well-established camps in Muzaffarabad, in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir, as well as in Mansehra, in North-West Frontier Province.

A core group, the 10 chosen for the Mumbai assault, was eventually moved to Karachi and its suburbs, where the real drilling began and where Pakistani investigators later retraced the plotters steps.

Beginning as early as May 2008, the group trained and planned brazenly while living in various neighborhoods in and around Karachi. They made scores of calls using cellphones, some with stolen numbers, starting in August. They set up voice lines over the Internet.

At one water sports shop, they bought inflatable boats, air pumps, life jackets and engines. One of their training camps, with five thatched rooms and a three-room house, was located near a creek, where they conducted water drills in the open. 

The police later recovered an abundance of evidence: militant literature, pocket diaries, spent and live ammunition, empty gun magazines, life vests and receipts for supplies, including distributed weapons and explosives, the Pakistani dossier says.

At the other camp, which they named Azizabad, the group and their trainers set up a classroom. 

Using handwritten manuals, the recruits were trained how to use cellphones to keep in contact with their handlers during the attack. They pored over detailed maps of the Indian coastline, plotting the course they would take to Mumbai. They learned how to use global positioning devices.

Working from Millat Town, a dusty, middle-class Karachi suburb on the eastern edge of the city, Mr. Sadiq organized the cadre. Neighbors described him as quiet and pious, riding around the streets with his two young sons perched on his motorbike. The Pakistani dossier says he was a committed Lashkar militant. 

In an interview, his uncle, Lala Yasin, said the same thing, adding proudly that Mr. Sadiq was willing to do anything to liberate Kashmir from Indias grip. 

Lashkar-e-Taiba does not kill people without reason, Mr. Yasin said at his home in Karachi, a few blocks from where his nephew planned the Mumbai attacks.

It is the champion of jihad, he explained. Muslims are like a body and if one part of your body is aching, the entire body may be jeopardized. 

A Limited Crackdown

Pakistani authorities have arrested seven men linked to the Mumbai attack, including Mr. Sadiq and Zaki ur-Rehman Lakhvi, a man well known as the chief of operations for Lashkar. They are searching for at least 13 other suspects. 

But their investigation has come up short of the founder of Lashkar, Hafiz Saeed, the man Indian and Western officials accuse of masterminding the attacks. 

In June, a Pakistani court freed Mr. Saeed from detention, declaring that it did not have enough evidence to hold him.

Under continuing pressure, Pakistani authorities this month confined his movements once again. But they say they have no new evidence against him. 

Rehman Malik, Pakistans interior minister, said that there was simply not enough evidence to charge Mr. Saeed with a crime, and that all the evidence pointed to Mr. Lakhvi as the mastermind. 

Lakhvi was the head, and that is why he has been taken into custody, Mr. Malik said in an interview. He has been charged and now they are all under trial. 

Indian officials say they have sent Pakistan a six-page summary of evidence of Mr. Saeeds complicity in the Mumbai attacks, a copy of which was given to The Times. The document, based on Indias own intelligence and testimony from Mr. Kasab, quotes Mr. Saeed giving detailed instructions to the group that carried out the attack. 

One Hindustani boat has to be hijacked for going to Bombay from Karachi, the document says, using Mumbais former name. Mr. Saeed also told the group that it should aim to begin the assault around 7:30 p.m. 

At this hour there is considerable crowd at the places of our target, the document quotes him as saying.

Pakistani officials and legal experts say the evidence is not as clear-cut as India says. The case against Mr. Saeed rests almost entirely on the testimony of Mr. Kasab, the surviving attacker, and serious questions remain about the way the Indian police obtained his statements, they say. 

Jamaat-ud-Dawa, the organization Mr. Saeed now leads, bills itself as a charity and denies any links with Lashkar. Abdur Rahman Makki, Mr. Saeeds deputy and brother-in-law, called any accusations against Mr. Saeed baseless.

I do not think that there is anything left to talk about after the High Courts decision that Hafez Saeed has no link to the Mumbai incident, he said in an interview. 

Yet he was not shy about admitting that Mr. Saeed, a fiery preacher, regularly exhorted young people to fight in Kashmir. Hafiz Saeed always speaks and discusses about the jihad that is mentioned in the Holy Koran, Mr. Makki said. Not only Pakistanis, any Muslim has the duty to support the oppressed Kashmiris. 

All parts of India where Muslims are a majority must be freed, he said. 

Meanwhile, despite promises to crack down on terrorists, Pakistans government has taken few concrete steps. 

The former director of Pakistans elite national investigative force was appointed to lead the countrys new counterterrorism body in January. But it took seven months to get any money to get the agency moving, and only now is it beginning to hire staff members and flesh out its mission, law enforcement officials said. 

Cracking down on Lashkar and other groups linked to the Kashmir struggle, and who do not explicitly seek to overthrow Pakistans government, was not urgent, they said. 

I have many other things that are higher priority now, said one senior police official in Punjab, the province where DNA tests pinpointed the families of the Mumbai attackers, according to the dossier. Why would a case in Mumbai be so important when Pakistan is the front line of the war on terror?

Links to Intelligence Agencies

For Pakistani authorities, the political problems posed by arresting Mr. Saeed, or undertaking a broader crackdown on Lashkar, may outstrip the legal ones. 

The organization and its cause  to free Kashmir  remain close to the hearts of the Pakistani public as well as the military and intelligence establishment. 

Since the Mumbai attacks, our funds increased and more people wanted to join us, a senior Lashkar operative in Karachi said in an interview. A midlevel ISI officer told The Times this year that Lashkars membership extended to 150,000 people.

Despite official denials, Pakistans spy agency, the ISI, maintains links to Lashkar, though the current level of support remains murky, according to the senior American intelligence official interviewed by The Times, as well as Pakistani analysts, retired military officials and former Lashkar members. 

Hafiz Saeed is the armys man, said Najam Sethi, an analyst and newspaper editor in Lahore, Pakistan. He and other analysts said the ISI was in no hurry to discard a group it helped create for a covert war against India. 

They have not abandoned it altogether, said Hasan Askari Rizvi, a military analyst in Lahore. It is not a total reversal; it is a realization that this is not advisable at this time. 

Senior ISI officials disputed the view. While acknowledging that the ISI had worked closely with Lashkar-e-Taiba in the past, they said things were different now. 

Prior to 9/11, we had a very strong contact with L.E.T., even on the leadership level, one senior Pakistani intelligence official said in an interview. But after 9/11, we broke our contacts with not only L.E.T. but also the Taliban. 

Today we think that it would have been better if we had not cut our ties with them the way we did, the official added, so that we could control them more.

A senior Lashkar militant said the group was divided  with the operational wing, led by Mr. Lakhvi, chafing for more attacks on India, and the spiritual wing, led by Mr. Saeed, advocating a more cautious approach. 

The senior Pakistani intelligence official said that some within Lashkar might aspire to a more ambitious agenda, and suggested that parts of the group might have acted on their own. 

Lashkar went rogue, the Pakistani intelligence official said. Perhaps L.E.T. or dissident factions wanted to emerge as a global player, like Al Qaeda.

New Attacks Expected

Even as new details emerge about the Mumbai attacks, senior American military, intelligence and counterterrorism officials express grim certainty that Lashkar is plotting new attacks. 

The United States warned Indian officials this year about a Mumbai-style attack by Lashkar against multiple sites in India, according to a senior Defense Department official and a senior American counterterrorism official.

The counterterrorism official said the information, gleaned from electronic intercepts and other sources, was not specific and apparently did not result in any arrests. But it was significant enough for American officials to alert their Indian counterparts. 

There were indications of possible terrorist activity in the run-up to the Indian elections, in May, and that information was shared promptly with Indian officials, said the counterterrorism official. 

Pakistani officials, however, say they have been kept in the dark. We heard that the Americans have warned the Indians that something in Mumbai might happen, but no one informed us, a senior Pakistani intelligence official said. 

If there is one thing on which intelligence agencies on both sides of the border agree, it is that the consequences of a new attack by Lashkar could be devastating. 

We do fear that if something like Mumbai happens in India again, there might be a military reaction from the Indian side and it could trigger into a war, said a senior intelligence official in Pakistan.

Right now we cannot guarantee that it will not happen again, because we do not have any control over it. 


Eric Schmitt and Thom Shanker contributed reporting from Washington.

The New York Times > Log In


----------



## grey boy 2

Indian magistrate tells special court Mumbai attacker confesses voluntarily 19:03, September 30, 2009 

An Indian magistrate who recorded the confession of Mohammed Ajmal Amir alias Kasab, the only terrorist caught alive in the Mumbai terror attacks, Wednesday told a special court trying the prime accused that the confession was "voluntary, genuine and not made under duress", Indian Home Ministry sources said. 

The magistrate, Rama Sawant Waghule, also told the court that Kasab showed no remorse for his offense and said he wanted to confess so that others might derive inspiration from him when he was produced before her on Feb. 17 for confession. She deposed before the court as a witness in the case. 

"On February 18, when Kasab was produced again before me, he reiterated that he wanted to confess. He showed no remorse for his crime and told me that he wanted to confess so that others may derive inspiration from his action. I also asked him whether there was any promise or force exerted upon him to confess and I also reminded him again that it was not obligatory on his part to confess and that it would be used against him in the trial for sentencing him," the sources quoted the magistrate as telling the court. 

India has charged Kasab for 302 crimes, including waging war against the state, for his involvement in the Mumbai terror attacks on Nov. 26 last year, which killed over 170 people, including foreign nationals. 

Kasab had earlier retracted his confession saying that he was compelled by authorities to confess. 

Source:Xinhua


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## hembo

Developereo said:


> http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/31811-western-media-s-war-pakistan.html
> 
> It's the same old bullcrap as the Harpoon story. Anonymous sources, vague statements, verbatim Indian propaganda. There is nothing new in this "story". Not one single factual statement that isn't already known.
> 
> NYT's readership in the US has fallen to an all-time low. In their desperation, they are pathetically flailing about for sensationalism.



Anonymous source??

The article provides specific names of persons and you're saying anonymous source? Yes I agree not all the claims are backed by names and sources (which I am sure isn't posible in the current context, it's only NYT, not FBI). But surely, the entire report cannot be bullcrap as you suggest. Anyways, I just want you to cross your heart and denounce the entire report as bogus bullcrap. That will give us a fair opinion about each other's views, beiliefs and biases.

Thank you


----------



## Developereo

hembo said:


> Anonymous source??
> 
> The article provides specific names of persons and you're saying anonymous source? Yes I agree not all the claims are backed by names and sources (which I am sure isn't posible in the current context, it's only NYT, not FBI). But surely, the entire report cannot be bullcrap as you suggest. Anyways, I just want you to cross your heart and denounce the entire report as bogus bullcrap. That will give us a fair opinion about each other's views, beiliefs and biases.
> 
> Thank you



I am saying the article doesn't provide any new information that can change the situation.

We all know the case is pending.
We all know LeT members are at large.
We all know (unfortunately) that terrorism can't be 100% wiped out and another attack cannot be ruled out.

So what exactly is the article trying to say?
Anything specific, or just kicking around the old dirt?
Why did it come out at this particular time?


----------



## hembo

Developereo said:


> I am saying the article doesn't provide any new information that can change the situation.
> 
> We all know the case is pending.
> We all know LeT members are at large.
> We all know (unfortunately) that terrorism can't be 100% wiped out and another attack cannot be ruled out.
> 
> So what exactly is the article trying to say?
> Anything specific, or just kicking around the old dirt?
> Why did it come out at this particular time?



Now that's some valid argument that the article is not saying anything new. And, I too cannot say why did the report come out at this particular time. If you have some opinion on that, you care share it here.

However, I see this detail article in a somewhat credible view because it brings few important points together as I have highlighted in my firrst post #4. All earlier reports were either scattered or heresays, wheras this one looks very comprehensive. Thanks!


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## kumar_V1.0

Developereo said:


> NYT again? Yawn.
> 
> Must be a slow news day.
> 
> The Gray Lady, she is a-flailin' for attention...



Doesn't look good from a senior member. 

read it and refute it with counter logic.

What the article means is that though some actions might have been taken against these terrorist groups but the infrastructure still remains and there is a need of whole hear-ted effort from GOP and public at large to put pressure on GOP against these groups.


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## AnGrz_Z_K_Jailer

On Saturday, the most significant trial in Pakistan is scheduled to resume: that of seven suspects accused of planning the rampaging terror attacks in Mumbai last year in which 163 people were killed.

It is a test for Pakistan, and the entire region, on many fronts. For India, bringing the perpetrators to justice is the essential first step toward any improvement in relations with Pakistan. Internally, the trial may indicate, to some degree anyway, whether Pakistan is willing let go of Lashkar-e-Taiba, the banned militant outfit that vows to liberate the disputed Kashmir region from India, and is often dubbed as Pakistani militarys fifth column.

So far the signs of Pakistans seriousness seem mixed.

The seven suspects include Zakiur ur-Rehman Lakhvi, the operational commander of Lashkar-e-Taiba and who Pakistani authorities say was the mastermind of the attacks; Hammad Amin Sadiq, the main financial planner and Zarar Shah, described as a computers and network expert. Investigators are looking for 13 other people who they have identified as proclaimed offenders. 

Hafiz Saeed, the founder of Lashkar, and the man who Indian and Western officials accuse of being the actual mastermind of the attacks, is not on trial. In June, a Pakistani court freed Mr. Saeed from detention, declaring that it did not have enough evidence to hold him. (Under continuing pressure, Pakistani authorities in September confined his movements once again. But they say they have no new evidence against him.)

It will be difficult for outsiders to judge the trial for themselves: The judge has issued a gag order to the lawyers; no media coverage is permitted; and it is being conducted within the walls of a high security jail at Adiala on the outskirts of outskirts of Rawalpindi. 

Rehman Malik, the Pakistani interior minister, told me in an interview that the trial is being held in secret to prevent any attempts by militants to either kill the witnesses or free the suspects.

However serious the charges, Pakistans concern about mollifying a public that supports Lashkar seems evident in the excellent treatment the suspects are given in prison and their ability to see whomever they want, according to an article by Lydia Polgreen and Souad Mekhennet.

The chief suspect, Mr. Lakhvi, is from Okara district in Punjab. Ajmal Kasab, the lone surviving gunman who is under detention in India, also lived in Okara.

Lashkar still maintains a strong presence in the towns and villages of Okara. On a visit there last year I saw firsthand the conflicting currents that run through Lashkar, a jihadist group, which in theory fights for God, but that also serves man, the Pakistani state and its claims over Kashmir. I went to the native village of Mr. Kasab in Okara along with two cousins of a friend who had helped arrange my visit. Most villagers denied knowing anything about Mr. Kasab, but the cousins knew a landlord who confirmed that Mr. Kasab had lived there. Earlier in the day, I had seen several madrassas and neighborhoods in a nearby town and villages where walls were filled with graffiti in support of Lashkar-e-Taiba.

The landlord invited us to his high-walled compound. There, in a room cooled by an air conditioner, he handed the cousins chilled cans of Carlsberg Beer. They discussed Indian movies and girls and laughed. I was amazed at the contrasting life styles. Alcohol is considered un-Islamic and is banned in public in Pakistan but manages to find its way behind high walls. I thought about Mr. Kasab, his house nearby and supporters of Lashkar-e-Taiba, who follow an extreme version of Islam. The landlord and his ilk and the extremists were polar opposites ideologically and yet were living in such close proximity. I couldnt help but think that sooner or later these contrasting ways of life will come to loggerheads with one another.


Link : Mumbai Terror Trial, a Test for Pakistan - At War Blog - NYTimes.com


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## graphican

^^^
Test for Pakistan is underway but India failed its tests to get justice to its own nations. Kurkure'e wife and children must be waiting for the people who assassinated their patriot father. Innocent families of Pakistan and Indians who got burned in the Samjhota Express must be waiting for India do bring them justice. We are waiting to see if India would budge towards Justice for them all.

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## indopak5

"All parts of India where Muslims are a majority must be freed, he said." 

heheheheheee.


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## gurbakash

Peace guys peace!

And you know one thing, after Mumbai attacks Doctor Zaid Hamid had told on a news channel that the cought terrorist is actually i sikh named Amar Singh.
He got these sensational news from his source


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## gurbakash

gurbakash said:


> Peace guys peace!
> 
> And you know one thing, after Mumbai attacks Doctor Zaid Hamid had told on a news channel that the cought terrorist is actually i sikh named Amar Singh.
> He got these sensational news from his source



he should have participated in Indian Laughter challenge( A show on a popular indian Channel) and have got the title of laughter champion. On a lighter side, any channel in pakistan can start the same show and earn lot TRP.


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## Hulk

gurbakash said:


> he should have participated in Indian Laughter challenge( A show on a popular indian Channel) and have got the title of laughter champion. On a lighter side, any channel in pakistan can start the same show and earn lot TRP.



He is geeting lot of publicity there is a thread on *** about him in 
multimedia section. He is know all the oracle, he gets to know everthing in detail after any event. I wonder if he has advance info. Debate is no use Palistan clarified intentions when they sent ISI agents to cover for Kasab.


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## insight-out

Court drops Pakistan cleric cases

A court in Pakistan has dismissed two cases against an Islamic charity leader accused of involvement in the 2008 Mumbai (Bombay) attacks.

Jamaat-ud-Dawa leader Hafiz Mohammad Saeed was charged by police with making a speech advocating jihad (holy war).

The court in Lahore upheld his appeal against the charges, in a ruling which is likely to anger India.

Mr Saeed set up Lashkar-e-Taiba, the militant group blamed for the attacks - he denies any involvement in them.

More than 170 people, including nine gunmen, were killed in the violence.

India has always said it wants Mr Saeed questioned about his "role" in last November's violence.

Pakistan detained Mr Saeed last year in connection with the Mumbai attacks. He was freed in June after a court ruled there was insufficient evidence to prosecute him.

Last month Pakistani authorities filed two cases against him for giving speeches allegedly "glorifying" jihad.

Shortly afterwards police restricted his movements and barred him from leading Eid prayers in Lahore.

But Mr Saeed appealed against the decision and on Monday his petition was upheld by a court in Lahore.

"The petition has been accepted and the cases are quashed," the court order said.

Mr Saeed's lawyer had argued that as the Jamaat-ud-Dawa charity was not banned, Mr Saeed should be allowed to make speeches and collect funds.

Indian authorities say there is evidence to show that the Mumbai attacks were planned and financed by Lashkar-e-Taiba in Pakistan.

Founded in the late 1980s, Lashkar-e-Taiba is one of most feared groups fighting against Indian rule in part of the disputed territory of Kashmir.

After it was banned in Pakistan in 2002, the organisation divided itself into Jamaat-ud-Dawa and Lashkar-e-Taiba, correspondents say.

Jamaat-ud-Dawa works as an Islamic charity all over Pakistan.


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## insight-out

Court drops Pakistan cleric cases

A court in Pakistan has dismissed two cases against an Islamic charity leader accused of involvement in the 2008 Mumbai (Bombay) attacks.

Jamaat-ud-Dawa leader Hafiz Mohammad Saeed was charged by police with making a speech advocating jihad (holy war).

The court in Lahore upheld his appeal against the charges, in a ruling which is likely to anger India.

Mr Saeed set up Lashkar-e-Taiba, the militant group blamed for the attacks - he denies any involvement in them.

More than 170 people, including nine gunmen, were killed in the violence.

India has always said it wants Mr Saeed questioned about his "role" in last November's violence.

Pakistan detained Mr Saeed last year in connection with the Mumbai attacks. He was freed in June after a court ruled there was insufficient evidence to prosecute him.

Last month Pakistani authorities filed two cases against him for giving speeches allegedly "glorifying" jihad.

Shortly afterwards police restricted his movements and barred him from leading Eid prayers in Lahore.

But Mr Saeed appealed against the decision and on Monday his petition was upheld by a court in Lahore.

"The petition has been accepted and the cases are quashed," the court order said.

Mr Saeed's lawyer had argued that as the Jamaat-ud-Dawa charity was not banned, Mr Saeed should be allowed to make speeches and collect funds.

Indian authorities say there is evidence to show that the Mumbai attacks were planned and financed by Lashkar-e-Taiba in Pakistan.

Founded in the late 1980s, Lashkar-e-Taiba is one of most feared groups fighting against Indian rule in part of the disputed territory of Kashmir.

After it was banned in Pakistan in 2002, the organisation divided itself into Jamaat-ud-Dawa and Lashkar-e-Taiba, correspondents say.

Jamaat-ud-Dawa works as an Islamic charity all over Pakistan.


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## mr42O

I think after Pakistani forces goes in Waziristan there will be attack in India like Mumbai attacks. Why i think so is What has been said by Indians and Isreal recently.

1. Few weeks ago Isreal told Indians there can be a mumbai like attack on India very soon
2. Isreali gov gave waring to there citizens yesterday to be carefull in India , they have reports about a terrorist attack
3 Reading newspaper today and waring by Indians if there is a attack on India since Pakistan isnt taking action against terrorist behind last mumbai attacks we will take final action against Pakistan.

http://express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100741335&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20091017

I was afraid after last sucide attacks that some one realy wanted Pakistan to attack Waziristan. I think India will take advantage and will some how attack Pakistan. 

If i was in charge i would move nukes to Saudi Arabia and strike against Isreal if Indians attack Pakistan when we are busy in Waziristan. ( Pakistan have a deal with Saudi Arab since last time Isreal tried to attack Pakistan ). And place 100000+++ missile towards India + Nukes.


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## PAFAce

The headline reads:
*In case of another Mumbai-style attack, the actions will be quick and decisive - India.*
Sub-heading reads something along these lines:
- Pakistan is unable to imprison Hafiz Saeed, which could lead to another Mumbai-style attack on India.
- Terrorist camps are still running in Azad Kashmir, while attacks along the Line of Control continue.

In other words, the propaganda machine is working overtime. Good move, India, but be careful what you wish for. The world is watching. 

Remember what Gen. Musharraf said back in 2003 in reply to Indian claims of "10 days and Pakistan will cease to exist". He said that any war with India will not last more than 10 hours, but those 10 hours will be more than enough. This still stands true. Other than that, let's not read too much into this piece of reporting. The ISPR will be the first to inform the nation of any credible threats on the Eastern border.

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## Stealth

I think Pakistan should Adop this policy 1st USE OF NUKE!!!! even if we get ANY SINGLE EVIDENCE!! demaag darust hojayeengay in Indians kay. Actually aaj jo India itna naach raha haina so called POWERFULL ECONOMY and bla blaa ye sab Israel and US backing ke wajah say hey jistime inak haath hata sara naach gaana nikal jayega!


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## graphican

I would expect that from a nation like India. When they know we are busy looking at one side, they would surely try to get their eggs friend at our expense. India wants Kashmir Freedom Movement to be squeezed and I would expect few hundred people killed in some bomb-blast or open fire on innocent people again but the beneficiary will be the so caring government of India. 

But I also think pushing Pakistan at a time when our swords are already out, India would face stronger response from us as much it is trying to build.


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## arihant

Stealth said:


> I think Pakistan should Adop this policy 1st USE OF NUKE!!!! even if we get ANY SINGLE EVIDENCE!! demaag darust hojayeengay in Indians kay. Actually aaj jo India itna naach raha haina so called POWERFULL ECONOMY and bla blaa ye sab Israel and US backing ke wajah say hey jistime inak haath hata sara naach gaana nikal jayega!



kuch kahu ga nahi, aapke dimaag, karab ho gaya hein. Lekin galat nahi hein, indians ka bhi ho gaya tha jab mumbai attack hua. Dono milke yek dusre pe nuke dal do, sirf amercia aur china isse happy hoga.


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## PAFAce

Stealth said:


> I think Pakistan should Adop this policy 1st USE OF NUKE!!!! even if we get ANY SINGLE EVIDENCE!! demaag darust hojayeengay in Indians kay. Actually aaj jo India itna naach raha haina so called POWERFULL ECONOMY and bla blaa ye sab Israel and US backing ke wajah say hey jistime inak haath hata sara naach gaana nikal jayega!


*Stealth*, we never signed a "No First Use" policy, which means that if needed, we reserve the right to use our nukes first. But nuclear weapons are not toys, you can't just nuke someone willy-nilly. It affects more than just the people you kill, it affects the entire world, and the history of human civilization. What I mean to say is, I really hope we never have to use our weapons, ever. But we didn't build them just for show, that's for sure, and we're the only country that will openly admit that.

As for Indian economy. Well, you must give credit where it is due. They worked through some very tough times to get to where they are today, and they have found a way of turning their greatest problem, population, into a strength. They did this by sticking with democracy, no matter how corrupt, and letting the wheels turn round-and-round. Even the most corrupt government will accomplish something when it comes time to get re-elected. 

We, too, have all the resources that India does, _without_ the population problem. If we had not gotten caught up in the War on Terror mess, our GDP growth rate would have most likely exceeded that of India by now (don't shoot the messenger, just look at the statistics). So don't worry, once the new sun dawns, we'll get back on track, and there will be no stopping us. Because of our current situation, we will have one of the most robust economies in the world (we already do, in fact), one that can work through almost any crisis situation.

But, as they say, one evolution at a time. Let's concentrate on saving our country first.

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## Panditji

Stealth said:


> I think Pakistan should Adop this policy 1st USE OF NUKE!!!! even if we get ANY SINGLE EVIDENCE!! demaag darust hojayeengay in Indians kay.



I am trembling in my shoes... the way the word 'evidence' is used in this forum, by now there is a pile of it with you guys.... 



> Actually aaj jo India itna naach raha haina so called POWERFULL ECONOMY and bla blaa ye sab Israel and US backing ke wajah say hey jistime inak haath hata sara naach gaana nikal jayega!


Please someone let Zardari/Gilani to give Stealth bhai a chance instead of the useless chaps they have in commerce and finance ministries. I am sure our good neighbours will be happy to be prosperous again, and Stealth Bhai knows whose blessing is required for getting rich quick...

Arre bhai, India is a broad based economy, and hence doing well in these times where consumption based, export oriented economies are licking their wounds. As far as Israel is concerned, there are no major economic ties, and in spite of BJP's mollycoddling of Israel, The current Indian power structure keeps Israel at bay keeping in view the sentiments of our Muslim brethren.


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## Stealth

arihant said:


> kuch kahu ga nahi, aapke dimaag, karab ho gaya hein. Lekin galat nahi hein, indians ka bhi ho gaya tha jab mumbai attack hua. Dono milke yek dusre pe nuke dal do, sirf amercia aur china isse happy hoga.



Sorry to say hamara demaag karab nahe huwa alabata tumhara tu tab say hey jab say America aur Israel nay tumko ghood lya hey! tab say tumharay paoon zameen par nahe lag rahay!


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## PAFAce

Panditji said:


> It is fitting, since Mumbai like attacks are a part of Pakistan's proxy war against India. And look - they are already discussing the next one!


*Keep this up, and you won't be posting here much longer.*

Unless it was a joke, in which case, it was terrible.


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## Ruag

Wow! A thread filled with war-mongering people. 

Yes... if there is another terrorist attack in India and India attacks terrorist camps in Pakistan, then Pakistan will launch all of its nukes on India and then Pakistan will live happily ever after.

Now, can we have some more intellectual conversation?


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## Stealth

PAFAce said:


> *Stealth*, we never signed a "No First Use" policy, which means that if needed, we reserve the right to use our nukes first. But nuclear weapons are not toys, you can't just nuke someone willy-nilly. It affects more than just the people you kill, it affects the entire world, and the history of human civilization. What I mean to say is, I really hope we never have to use our weapons, ever. But we didn't build them just for show, that's for sure, and we're the only country that will openly admit that.
> 
> As for Indian economy. Well, you must give credit where it is due. They worked through some very tough times to get to where they are today, and they have found a way of turning their greatest problem, population, into a strength. They did this by sticking with democracy, no matter how corrupt, and letting the wheels turn round-and-round. Even the most corrupt government will accomplish something when it comes time to get re-elected.
> 
> We, too, have all the resources that India does, _without_ the population problem. If we had not gotten caught up in the War on Terror mess, our GDP growth rate would have most likely exceeded that of India by now (don't shoot the messenger, just look at the statistics). So don't worry, once the new sun dawns, we'll get back on track, and there will be no stopping us. Because of our current situation, we will have one of the most robust economies in the world (we already do, in fact), one that can work through almost any crisis situation.



Dear Sir,

Yes we have more powerfull economy in 2004/05. Simply if USA leave afghanistan and also India close thr conslate in Afghanistan defintly our economy and situation will going smooth.


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## indian_blues

PAFAce said:


> *Stealth*, we never signed a "No First Use" policy, which means that if needed, we reserve the right to use our nukes first. But nuclear weapons are not toys, you can't just nuke someone willy-nilly. It affects more than just the people you kill, it affects the entire world, and the history of human civilization. What I mean to say is, I really hope we never have to use our weapons, ever. But we didn't build them just for show, that's for sure, and we're the only country that will openly admit that.
> 
> As for Indian economy. Well, you must give credit where it is due. They worked through some very tough times to get to where they are today, and they have found a way of turning their greatest problem, population, into a strength. They did this by sticking with democracy, no matter how corrupt, and letting the wheels turn round-and-round. Even the most corrupt government will accomplish something when it comes time to get re-elected.
> 
> We, too, have all the resources that India does, _without_ the population problem. If we had not gotten caught up in the War on Terror mess, our GDP growth rate would have most likely exceeded that of India by now (don't shoot the messenger, just look at the statistics). So don't worry, once the new sun dawns, we'll get back on track, and there will be no stopping us. Because of our current situation, we will have one of the most robust economies in the world (we already do, in fact), one that can work through almost any crisis situation.
> 
> But, as they say, one evolution at a time. Let's concentrate on saving our country first.



Sane 

I believe even mumbai type attacks happen 5 in a row, we won't touch pakistan, why need to harm someone who is already started to implode. Save your country brothers, you already fell for US once and you are doing the same mistake. Your number one enemy is US not us.


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## Kompromat

*Why India is warning Pakistan for any new Mumbai type attack???

If the Mumbai attacks been proved to be taken Place from Pakistan?

Guys What we are discussing is just another BS comming from India once again , First Prove that the Attacks came from Pakistan ! Then we will talk what to do.

And we must not worry about these threats , they have been arround since our Independence 

Swift response to what ??? means India is already mentaly prepared that what ever attacks will happen in India will come from Pakistan and they can attack Pakistan without Investigating the real hand behind it. And lets look at the timing of this statment , when PA & PAF is conducting an operation in FATA.?

Good luck with that my Indian friends !! 

lemme answer another question , IF any war sanario between India and Pakistan is comming , Pakistan has 70-90 warheads ( declared) Unofficial ??????
India 45-90 Warheads , Unofficial number ??

simply means 180 warheads , if all fired both countries will be Wiped out of the map of the Earth and this is where US, Russia , EU will have party

Maybe they would'nt have because 180 warheads will put that much temprature & radio active waves in the atmosphare that it will easily destroy OZONE and then ....happy holidays.

So lets pray and think that our Rulers are not Idiots , and lets work together for the betterment of Our people

regards:. *

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## Spring Onion

Ruag said:


> Wow! A thread filled with war-mongering people.
> 
> Yes... if there is another terrorist attack in India and India attacks terrorist camps in Pakistan, then Pakistan will launch all of its nukes on India and then Pakistan will live happily ever after.
> 
> Now, can we have some more intellectual conversation?



The forum is not filled with war-mongering people rather INDIAN Orange media is full of it and your Orange minded minister is once again on poomp poo mission by issuing such silly statement that India is going to face another Mumbai like attack.

Come on man teach your media to find other real news instead of making pure newswires as Billywood masala film industry


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## Mirage2000

India cant do anything if something likethat or even worse happens because they cant stand a nuclear war,all of their major cities are in our hitlist and incase of any stupid action we wont hesitate to strike.

The Indians dont have guts to stand nuclear war even when thier media is almost crazy to push govt to go to War but they have not able to do so as evident in 1999,2002 and 2008.Its just a big hype created by their media.

Moreover incase of any nuclear war thier dream to be a super power will be shattered.

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## Stealth

Mirage2000 said:


> thier dream to be a super power will be shattered.



Even without any War thy will never become a superpower... 

80&#37; of population under poverty level and you think India become Superpower ??


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## Spring Onion

Mirage2000 said:


> India cant do anything if something likethat or even worse happens because they cant stand a nuclear war,all of their major cities are in our hitlist and incase of any stupid action we wont hesitate to strike.
> 
> The Indians dont have guts to stand nuclear war even thier media is almost crazy to push govt to go to War but they have not able to do so as evident in 1999,2002 and 2008.Its just a big hype created by their media.
> 
> Moreover incase of any nuclear war thier dream to be a super power will be shattered.




Yes i am afraid more than Indian Government, The Indian ORANGE media is pushing the government to wage war against China, Pakistan and even if its nuke war.

what a pitty

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## Spring Onion

Stealth said:


> Even without any War thy will never become a superpower...
> 
> 80% of population under poverty level and you think India become Superpower ??



Stealth they can become a superpower and for becoming a superpower you need not to have low poverty. Rather the already veto-power countries will decide that how much India will be used for their agenda.


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## Panditji

Stealth said:


> 80% of population under poverty level and you think India become Superpower ??



Stealth bhai, don't exaggerate - it's 25%, but you will not like the source...

Congratulations, it is 24% for you! 

For the US, it is 12%. So how far is it for us...?

BTW, it is our dear friend China that tops the score here... 60%!!!

Wotsay?


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## Stealth

Jana said:


> Stealth they can become a superpower and for becoming a superpower you need not to have low poverty. Rather the already veto-power countries will decide that how much India will be used for their agenda.



US use Pakistan for thr goals since last 50 years. Now India Time. US sell F18/F16 and other military hardware to India why ? 

Bling bling "CHINA" and NATO/US already in Afghanistan strategy is very simple. tackle Pakistan from westren side and US - > India tackle China on thr otherside. Thats pretty good for us if India go for F18 MMRCA. Good for us because defintly thn Russia open thr gate for Pakistan (for military hardware) its good strategy if Russia, China and Pakistan in 1 clan and Israel, India and America in 1 Clan thn we will defintly head over Indoisrael US clan because of regional powers with us. I am waiting for this MMRCA deal. About Mumbai like attack. India dont have guts to start WAR with pakistan. Just Goi as usual raise issue in UN with the support of Israel and US thats it. India cant do anything more.


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## AliFarooq

rofl that's the percentage for Comoros a country in africa not china


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## Panditji

Thanks for pointing out buddy, its a surprising low of 8&#37;. Power to China! (er...ok cancel that one... it will be difficult for India then  )


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## Spring Onion

AliFarooq said:


> rofl that's the percentage for Comoros a country in africa not china



hehehehehe i remember sometimes back Indians were having some solace by claiming that China tops AIDS patients and there were hardly any in India


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## Spring Onion

Panditji said:


> Stealth bhai, don't exaggerate - it's 25%, but you will not like the source...
> 
> Congratulations, it is 24% for you!
> 
> For the US, it is 12%. So how far is it for us...?
> 
> BTW, it is our dear friend China that tops the score here... 60%!!!
> 
> *Wotsay? *



 pundit jee see a doc


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## Panditji

Hey let it go guys, it was just a slip... at least I don't do it brazenly (or I would not have provided links and we could have spent the day arguing back and forth... like it usually happens here...


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## Spring Onion

Panditji said:


> Hey let it go guys, it was just a slip... at least I don't do it brazenly (or I would not have provided links and we could have spent the day arguing back and forth... like it usually happens here...



heheheheh next time be carful otherwise i love


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## Ruag

Jana said:


> The forum is not filled with war-mongering people rather INDIAN Orange media is full of it and your Orange minded minister is once again on poomp poo mission by issuing such silly statement that India is going to face another Mumbai like attack.
> 
> Come on man teach your media to find other real news instead of making pure newswires as Billywood masala film industry



Right... so here we have various posts challenging India to wage war on Pakistan. Here we have various posts claiming that India cannot wage war on Pakistan because it does not have guts and if India attacks Pakistan, more than 80 nukes would fall on India.

And still these posts are not war-mongering?! Wow!

Yes... India does not have the guts to attack Pakistan because it realizes the consequences of nuclear war. Yes.... India is a coward because it has never threatened Pakistan with nuclear war but all Pakistanis can think of is "nuking India". Yes... Pakistanis are the bravest of all because they rely on nukes rather than conventional weapons. 

And as for India's "orange" media... it seems Pakistanis take India's media more seriously than Indians do.


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## Srinivas

US plane grounded at Mumbai airport

A US aircraft with 205 American marine commandos on board was on Sunday made to land at Mumbai airport for allegedly violating the Indian
airspace.

The chartered plane was on its way from Fujiriah in UAE to Bangkok, an airport official said. The aircraft was using a civilian call sign, officials said.

"A US aircraft with 205 US Marines on board, on its way from Fujiriah to Bangkok, was forced to land in Mumbai while overflying Indian airspace as there was some confusion about its call sign," a Mumbai airport spokesperson said.



The aircraft landed at Mumbai airport at 0752 hours and has been parked at a remote bay, the spokesperson said adding, all passengers are on board.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ded-at-Mumbai-airport/articleshow/5135818.cms


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## Renegade

The IAF is getting serious about the violation of the Indian Airspace. Earlier they had grounded an UAE Air Force plane for violation of rules and an chartered plane of the US military ferrying arms to American forces.


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## paritosh

good good...superpower or not...no bull$hitting us!!!

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## grey boy 2

India forces U.S. plane carrying 205 marines to land in Mumbai13:29, October 18, 2009 

India Sunday forces a U.S. army plane carrying 205 marine commandos to land in Mumbai for violating Indian air space, said Indian civil aviation sources.

India forces U.S. plane carrying 205 marines to land in Mumbai - People's Daily Online
Source:Xinhua


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## third eye

This has already been posted here :


http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/36742-us-plane-grounded-mumbai-airport.html


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## Goodperson

US plane cleared for take off, set to leave Mumbai - The Times of India


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## K^se

MUMBAI - INDIAN military officials ordered a United States airplane carrying 205 Marines to land at Mumbai airport on Sunday over an airspace clearance dispute.

'The Indian Air Force had to instruct the US plane to land as it did not have the mandatory clearance required to fly in Indian airspace,' Indian Air Force spokesman T.K. Singha told AFP.

The chartered plan was on its way from Fujairah in the United Arab Emirates to Bangkok when it was forced to land.

All passengers remained on board as US authorities applied for the missing paperwork, Singha said.

Foreign military aircraft have to obtain two sets of clearances before flying over India.

'The US aircraft had procured clearance from India's Directorate of Civil Aviation but they did not have Air Operations Routing (AOR) clearance,' Singha said. -- AFP

-Great way to make a headline, when noone is talking about your country , hold some of our Marines..


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## K^se

Oops, posted on another thread lets put this back up shall we?


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## inferno

Yo! Superpower. Ha ha. At your home. 
No voilation of our airspace.

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## K^se

Umm merge with the thread I put up, but anyway can't get any prime time in the Media ehhh?? Just hold some of our Marines, guarantee you'll get some airtime


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## Spitfighter

K^se said:


> Umm merge with the thread I put up, but anyway can't get any prime time in the Media ehhh?? Just hold some of our Marines, guarantee you'll get some airtime



You flew into our airspace so I'm not sure if we're the ones desperate for attention.

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## Infanteer

K^se said:


> -Great way to make a headline, when noone is talking about your country , hold some of our Marines..



Relax there Rambo!!
Rules are rules. just because you are american doesn't mean you don't need to follow rules and regulations or ROE's

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## r3alist

well what can you say....good move by india.

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## Infanteer

r3alist said:


> well what can you say....good move by india.



x2 Every country has the right to defend its sovereignty

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## r3alist

Infanteer said:


> x2 Every country has the right to defend its sovereignty



ofcourse, however in the face of uncle sam not all or many do, thus even if its india doing so its good to see.


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## Patriot

^ Listen to what he said.A wise man would follow rules.


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## boxer_B

Goodperson said:


> US plane cleared for take off, set to leave Mumbai - The Times of India



I am not surprised. Those marines were on their way to get a good blowj*b in Bangkok. Only thing IAF and other intelligence officials would have found on plane are condoms and Gel Lubricant.

Would have loved to see the desperation and agony on their face when they found out they landed in india instead of thailand.

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## Screaming Skull

K^se said:


> can't get any prime time in the Media ehhh?? Just hold some of our Marines, guarantee you'll get some airtime



Everything that goes up has to come down! But alas this time your superpower American ego too came crashing down with your &#8216;205 marines&#8217;.

Btw, your &#8216;205 marines&#8217; are still grounded. Just hope that your embassy gets them temporary visas from the Indian authorities in time else they l have to sleep over at the &#8216;third world&#8217; Mumbai airport tonight!

*U.S. aircraft unlikely to takeoff today*


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## Infanteer

r3alist said:


> ofcourse, however in the face of uncle sam not all or many do, thus even if its india doing so its good to see.



we cant blame the troops for everything. its the civilians up there that make those decisions. Pakistani or Indian or American or Canadian we as soldiers have no right what so ever to question higher authority we are trained to follow orders blindly from boot camp to rest of our military careers.

but i do agree with you american politicians and most civilians do have that I'm american best of the best attitude.

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## H2O3C4Nitrogen

Poor Pilot , sure will get a WARM welcome by the comanding officer at Bankok. 

I still find the whole thing confusing why do Pilots form such a reputeable AirForce make such mistake , If these would have been Saudis then it would be alrit but By a US Pilot especially during the time when his nation is at WAR . Recklessness that should be charged with a code of conduct.


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## K^se

Pretty much, I'm going to Thailand next Summer going to be pretty good, If I say so myself ;D


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## Ruag

K^se said:


> Umm merge with the thread I put up, but anyway can't get any prime time in the Media ehhh?? Just hold some of our Marines, guarantee you'll get some airtime



USA thinks that it can enter any country's airspace anytime at its own will.

Probably it forgot this - 

1960 U-2 incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and this - 

Hainan Island incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

USA is an ally of India. So, we diplomatically asked the plane to land for inspection.

The last time a military plane from a hostile country entered our airspace without permit, we shot it down - 

Atlantique Incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## K^se

Oh yeah show us who's boss, 

-I'm so intimidated with a country that has 400 million people living under a dollar a day..
-More people have aids in India than any other country in the world, 16 million...
-Your armed forces, yeah pretty much have you to start feeding them they look bulimic, even surprised how they can carry a weapon, very ill equiped, etc..

-I would go on but I don't want to be flamed by 1.1 billion people..


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## Jako

K^se said:


> Oh yeah show us who's boss,
> 
> -I'm so intimidated with a country that has 400 million people living under a dollar a day..
> -More people have aids in India than any other country in the world, 16 million...
> -Your armed forces, yeah pretty much have you to start feeding them they look bulimic, even surprised how they can carry a weapon, very ill equiped, etc..
> 
> -I would go on but I don't want to be flamed by 1.1 billion people..



dont bother,you can beat the 1.1 billion easily in a flaming competition!


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## K^se

Since you are one of the rapidily growing regional economic powers put more money into the people living in your country, otherwise they'll turn against you..First focus on your people once everything is pretty stable, yeah that 32 billions dollar plus defense budget maybe even more.. Put it into your country first eliminate poverty, corruption, etc.. Then focus on trying to catch up to China, Japan, Israel, and of course the U.S but it doesn't matter don't heed someones point..Just keep buying military hardware from us, were glad to oblige you


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## Ruag

K^se said:


> Oh yeah show us who's boss,
> 
> -I'm so intimidated with a country that has 400 million people living under a dollar a day..
> -*More people have aids in India than any other country in the world, 16 million...*
> -Your armed forces, yeah pretty much have you to start feeding them they look bulimic, even surprised how they can carry a weapon, very ill equiped, etc..
> 
> -I would go on but I don't want to be flamed by 1.1 billion people..



Yes, please go on and also show off your American education. 

Read this - 

India HIV caseload seen dramatically lower | Reuters

and this - 
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2155rank.html

AIDS prevalence rate - USA - 0.6, India - 0.3



Yes, India has a huge population of poor people. But it knows how to protect its airspace unlike Pakistan where US drones enter anytime and fire at will. 

And yes, no one needs to be intimidated by the great USA, a nation which has been in recession since 2007, is in a debt of $11 trillion and owes China $750 billion.

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## boxer_B

K^se said:


> Oh yeah show us who's boss,
> 
> -I'm so intimidated with a country that has 400 million people living under a dollar a day..
> -More people have aids in India than any other country in the world, 16 million...
> *-Your armed forces, yeah pretty much have you to start feeding them they look bulimic, even surprised how they can carry a weapon, very ill equiped, etc..*
> 
> -*I would go on but I don't want to be flamed by 1.1 billion people..*



Yes right, last time i checked your fully armed, lethal and well nourished army were paying bribes to sandal wearing taliban to stay alive.  

Isn't it enough embarrassment to fight your own creation that you added bribery episode to that glorious list?

And no, you were already flamed by 5+ billion population of earth. Dont add another 1.1 billion to it.

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## K^se

Ruag said:


> Yes, please go on and also show off your American education.
> 
> Read this -
> 
> India HIV caseload seen dramatically lower | Reuters
> 
> and this -
> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2155rank.html
> 
> AIDS prevalence rate - USA - 0.6, India - 0.3
> 
> 
> 
> *Yes, India has a huge population of poor people*. But it knows how to protect its airspace unlike Pakistan where US drones enter anytime and fire at will.
> 
> *And yes, no one needs to be intimidated by the great USA, a nation which has been in recession since 2007, is in a debt of $11 trillion and owes China $750 billion.*




Huge amount of poor people lol? you have more people in poverty than the U.S population itself.. I'm surprise you even know numbers like those considering the fact we still have a GDP annual of 14 trillion..yes, we are in debt and it's more than 11 trillion dollars but thank you for your sincere sympathy, yes we owe China money tell that to my government I highly doubt will pay it back..I'm not going to go down this road, I have better things to do then shut up kid living on the other side of the globe, unlike some countries I can go outside and not see Smog ..

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## H2O3C4Nitrogen

Arent the indians who provide cheap solns to the key corporates in America . Doent India looks a mouth watering Delight(Huge Market ) To many of American corporates . 
The Fact is America cant enforce its dictate on India as it does upon cute little states of Europe . 
Now i cant understand how come a tiny little nation like Israel , surrounded up by some frustrated counteries ready to rip it apart can be compared to an Asian giant like India . 
America needs India so that its corporat sector can match up with that of China or Europe . And if you guys Dont then somebody else will definately win the race .

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## batmannow

boxer_B said:


> I am not surprised. Those marines were on their way to get a good blowj*b in Bangkok. Only thing IAF and other intelligence officials would have found on plane are condoms and Gel Lubricant.
> 
> Would have loved to see the desperation and agony on their face when they found out they landed in india instead of thailand.



well, SORY to engage!
they can get better taste, in MUMBAI!
i guss they ,like salty!& black water?


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## Imran Khan

batmannow said:


> well, SORY to engage!
> they can get better taste, in MUMBAI!
> i guss they ,like salty!& black water?



to hell its defence.pk or i am drunk?stop please friends .by the way i can't understand why indians bring pakistan in every matter of there country .uncle sam if angry on it its not good for bunya jee.


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## sathruvinasakh

K^se said:


> Oh yeah show us who's boss,
> 
> -I'm so intimidated with a country that has 400 million people living under a dollar a day..
> -More people have aids in India than any other country in the world, 16 million...
> -Your armed forces, yeah pretty much have you to start feeding them they look bulimic, even surprised how they can carry a weapon, very ill equiped, etc..
> 
> -I would go on but I don't want to be flamed by 1.1 billion people..



The final choice of words of any looser ends only blaming the poverty in India.
Well done looser.

Me before correcting your facts,
300 million poor(either living under less than a dollar pay or in ablsolute poverty)
at the same time more than 400-500 million middle class which is times higher than that of the so called super power.
and as many billioniares that were spotted in the top 10 of so called forbes magazine.

India is doing its part of the job to keep the world clean,unlike US which just uses people to get over with its blow job.

taleban were born because of the blow job between US and the Afghan kafeers.
Muzahidheens came into existance as much as the same way.

A would be nuclear Iran-------Is the the reponse of US attrocities.

Frankly tell me one thing ,

which major /minor war did US won without any help or ofcourse me being liberal giving you another oppertunity to prove me the same with a friendly nations help?

First gulf war? disastrous
vietnam war? no more words
first afghan war? Supporting talebans to bomb US at a later date
second Afghan war? almsot ater a decade still going and no particular date to atleast to pull out troops safely and sound
Iraq war? u can get your facts correct with ground realities.

Just spending billions on defence can only give you a name of super power.
But to really have that name you need will and physical power which you people aboslutely lack off.

Your words on a public forum wont simply look credible unlike the US way of replacing the diplomatically elected gov with Shah in Iran in the past.And yet you people boast about democracy.****** rats.

And correcting your statement,AIDS first originated from US ,when an yank tried to blow a american *****.

U people who are the main cause of the current economic meltdown and literally the cause fo billions of dollars running down the drain......U have no right to point other nations.The much better you keep your mouth shut, the much better the world will prosper.period


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## sathruvinasakh

To be more specific and put everything in a more perspective manner,
So far all the crisis and every border clash and every war between countries has/have/had a major US hand in it.

It just utilizes the poor and developing countries to its cause and keep its Super power status(in fantasy world)

Yeh.....again, we saw your guts when Russians aimed thier missiles at your *** during 61.how funny was that?
Oooh wait a minute....what happened to the carrier task force enterprise in the bay on bengal that sailed through to show up a diplomacy effort of bombing India during the 71 war ro prevent the liberation of Bangladesh?

did the task for ran out of gas or scared to death by the agression of the so called 300 million poor Indians?

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## sathruvinasakh

Being a super power US failed to have atleast one full victory in any war it participated in the past or present.If a desperate US has any victory under its sleeve it might be the most infamous nuking of JAPAN .

nuking a non-nuclear state????? ahahahahah loosersssssssssssss.........

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## Nemesis

I don't think it was intentional. I highly doubt US would risk antagonizing another South Asian country at this stage.


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## MALIKATIF

paritosh said:


> good good...superpower or not...no bull$hitting us!!!



yes they keep doing this type of act to show that they are very alert but not alert as when ajmal kasab and thier teem croos thier border in such a manner as he was a indian national.


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## Renegade

MALIKATIF said:


> yes they keep doing this type of act to show that they are very alert but not alert as when ajmal kasab and thier teem croos thier border in such a manner as he was a indian national.



I guess that you are jealous of the fact that while India has the guts to force land US military planes that violate our airspace, Pakistan can do nothing but watch as US military drones repeatedly violate your airspace to bomb your soverign territory.


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## S-2

*"I guess that you are jealous of the fact that while India has the guts to force land US military planes that violate our airspace..."*

Let me know when that happens.

Until then, the only conclusion to be drawn here is the poor reading comprehension on display.

That was a CIVILIAN CHARTERED aircraft with civilians also on board. You RADIOED instructions to land and obtain the proper permit. The pilot complied.

No IAF aircraft were launched. 

End of story.

Care to argue with the facts as presented in this article?

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## gambit

S-2 said:


> *"I guess that you are jealous of the fact that while India has the guts to force land US military planes that violate our airspace..."*
> 
> Let me know when that happens.
> 
> Until then, the only conclusion to be drawn here is the poor reading comprehension on display.
> 
> That was a CIVILIAN CHARTERED aircraft with civilians also on board. You RADIOED instructions to land and obtain the proper permit. The pilot complied.
> 
> No IAF aircraft were launched.
> 
> End of story.
> 
> Care to argue with the facts as presented in this article?


Be kind and allow the poor chap his grossly broad interpretation of 'force'.


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## Renegade

S-2 said:


> *"I guess that you are jealous of the fact that while India has the guts to force land US military planes that violate our airspace..."*
> 
> Let me know when that happens.
> 
> Until then, the only conclusion to be drawn here is the poor reading comprehension on display.
> 
> That was a CIVILIAN CHARTERED aircraft with civilians also on board. You RADIOED instructions to land and obtain the proper permit. The pilot complied.
> 
> No IAF aircraft were launched.
> 
> End of story.
> 
> Care to argue with the facts as presented in this article?



The aircraft was transporting more than 200 US marines and weapons on board - this pretty much makes it a US military aircraft. Though you can still keep arguing over the technicalities.

The IAF didnt scramble fighters as the pilots obeyed. 

We can ground aircraft that have merely violated our airspace, bombing soverign territory is another case. But can the same be said of you???


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## Renegade

gambit said:


> Be kind and allow the poor chap his grossly broad interpretation of 'force'.



Mighty kind of you lot here to allow us Indians our grossly broad interpretation of force. But then what might you call the situation in NWFP grossly narrow interpretation of FORCE or the absence of any of it!!??

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## S-2

I see when confronted with facts that you resort to dissemblance and distortion.

Care to stay on topic or has the truth overwhelmed your feeble perspectives?

Such petulant little children.


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## sathruvinasakh

S-2 said:


> Until then, the only conclusion to be drawn here is the poor reading comprehension on display.
> 
> That was a CIVILIAN CHARTERED aircraft with civilians also on board. You RADIOED instructions to land and obtain the proper permit. The pilot complied.
> 
> No IAF aircraft were launched.
> 
> End of story.
> 
> Care to argue with the facts as presented in this article?


Since when a military plane became a civilian cargo transporter?
since when US Marines became civilians ?

I hope that you are not outa MIND.

On the side note,Mumbai incident is an eye opener to Indian security establishment.
Since then not even a civilian airliner/fishing boats or any other sort of security breaching apparatus werent allowed to pass the Indian Land/Air/Sea boundaries. LEt alone Military,be it s friendly or foe clearance is a MUST.period.


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## S-2

Isn't it interesting how similar the reaction of renegade to the facts here mirrors the reaction of ejaz 007 to the facts about opium elsewhere.

Heaven help the yank that disturbs the pre-conceived bias of these loons with simple facts. Off they run into dissembling straw man land.


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## rajeev

I think there is some confusion with form. Last time, the same thing happened to UAE plane flying to China.

Rather than having two sets of forms and two different requests, cant they make one form with a checkbox to say - military purposes (or something similar ?)

Would it so hard to write a simple programs to send requests to two places, rather than wasting resources on a very obvious mishap.


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## S-2

*"Since when a military plane became a civilian cargo transporter?
since when US Marines became civilians ?"*

Since when was a civilian aircraft chartered by the ANY government a military plane?

Read the article closely. Where does the article say, for instance, that all 205 passengers were U.S. Marines? The individual who originally posted the story states exactly that in his comments though.

You are well out ahead of the facts on an innocent article.

Just another example of distorting the news to fit the narrative. Thank God for rajeev's reasonable response.


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## toxic_pus

Whats the big deal, really? A plane, which happened to carry US marines made some error; it was asked to comply with certain norms; it did and thats the end of it.

So whats the fuss all about


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## TOPGUN

Mistakes happen! lol but be careful u might upset uncle sam .....


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## gambit

Renegade said:


> The aircraft was transporting more than 200 US marines and weapons on board - this pretty much makes it a US military aircraft. Though you can still keep arguing over the technicalities.


Right...That mean whenever a USAF Reserve or National Guard pilot become a captain of a United Airlines or SouthWest Airlines airliner, that automatically make the airliner a 'military' aircraft.



Renegade said:


> The IAF didnt scramble fighters as the pilots obeyed.


Right...That mean the aircraft was 'forced' down.





Renegade said:


> We can ground aircraft that have merely violated our airspace, bombing soverign territory is another case. But can the same be said of you???


Right...The next time we hear an enemy ordered US to stop bombing, we will obey and admit we were 'forced' to stop bombing.

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## Renegade

S-2 said:


> I see when confronted with facts that you resort to dissemblance and distortion.
> 
> Care to stay on topic or has the truth overwhelmed your feeble perspectives?
> 
> *Such petulant little children*.



Thanks grandpa!! but i guess you forgot to put on your reading glasses before you read my post - do put them on and read again and to your surprise you will find that i have struck to the facts. goodluck. 

and if you still have some problem making sense of the words, i would suggest that you visit the opthamologiost at the earliest.


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## Renegade

gambit said:


> Right...That mean whenever a USAF Reserve or National Guard pilot become a captain of a United Airlines or SouthWest Airlines airliner, that automatically make the airliner a 'military' aircraft.
> 
> Right...That mean the aircraft was 'forced' down.
> 
> 
> 
> Right...The next time we hear an enemy ordered US to stop bombing, we will obey and admit we were 'forced' to stop bombing.



bravo!! and the your description says that you are a military professional.


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## S-2

*"to your surprise you will find that i have struck to the facts."*

Hey junior,

Which facts did you strike?

The ones you can't understand?

Gramps took a second look at the original article and your comments and...

...stands by my thoughts about your need for some reading comprehension. Please link where you believe I've missed something but the gist is simple-

a civilian charter carrying 205 passengers including crew and U.S. Marines was directed to land at Mumbai for failing to file the proper transit paperwork.

Plane was, further, held while the pilot re-established his min rest standards.

So?

Gramps is eagerly awaiting your next iteration of tap-dancing...


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## Renegade

S-2 said:


> *"to your surprise you will find that i have struck to the facts."*
> 
> Hey junior,
> 
> Which facts did you strike?
> 
> The ones you can't understand?
> 
> Gramps took a second look at the original article and your comments and...
> 
> ...stands by my thoughts about your need for some reading comprehension. Please link where you believe I've missed something but the gist is simple-
> 
> a civilian charter carrying 205 passengers including crew and U.S. Marines was directed to land at Mumbai for failing to file the proper transit paperwork.
> 
> Plane was, further, held while the pilot re-established his min rest standards.
> 
> So?
> 
> Gramps is eagerly awaiting your next iteration of tap-dancing...




Read the first post carefully - "a US aircraft with 205 marine commandoes on board was on sunday made to land at Mumbai airport for alleged violation of Indian airspace". My argument being - the aircraft had uniform military presonnel on board, was being used exclusively for military duty; makes the aircraft a military one and it was supposed to carry a military call sign as opposed to a civilian one. thus it was grounded.

As according to Indian rules the aircraft was supposed to carry a military call sign, signifying that it was a military plane as different from a civilian one.


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## S-2

"*Read the first post carefully*"

I have junior.

Here is the quote embedded in the post itself-

"A US aircraft with 205 US Marines on board, on its way from Fujiriah to Bangkok, was forced to land in Mumbai while overflying Indian airspace as there was some confusion about its call sign," a Mumbai airport spokesperson said.

and here is the quote taken from the article-

*"A US aircraft with 205 passengers, including its crew and US troops on board, was made to land in Mumbai while flying over Indian airspace as there was some confusion about its call sign,"*

The aircraft had marines on board but not solely marines and military personnel. It didn't have the documentation required for military personnel. It required both sets of documents to transit Indian airspace.

The quotes were DOCTORED by the individual posting the article as there's a CLEAR difference in the wording of the two quotes.

Chartered, however, means CIVILIAN and manned by a CIVILIAN crew among whoever else on board who may have been civilian.

Ask AIR FORCE PILOT in a P.M. He is both a military pilot and a civilian pilot but it's irrelevant from my perspective as any doctored post indicates an attempt to distort the truth and generate needless controversy.

You and the other fan-boys bit the bait and RAN with it.

Too bad for you but that doesn't change the entirely innocent character of this event despite whatever perverse twist may have been applied to suit a narrow agenda.

Thanks.

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## pmukherjee

Guys aren't we reading too much into a more-or-less routine administrative issue? A storm in a tea cup would be an understatement really. Such matters should not be reported in press as they are so trivial that they not news worthy at all. A foreign aircraft traveling in Indian airspace without necessary documentation is requested to land and complete the formalities. The a/c complies with the request. End of story. The last time media reported such an incident involving an Egyptian a/c traveling to China again w/o permits, we saw a similar barrage of needless bravado and counter allegations. Totally pointless.


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## gambit

S-2 said:


> a civilian charter carrying 205 passengers including crew and U.S. Marines was directed to land at Mumbai for failing to file the *proper transit paperwork*.


May be the ground controller just finished folding his paper airplane and threatened to launch them at the direction of this US 'military' aircraft, hence so many here believed the aircraft was 'forced' down.



S-2 said:


> Plane was, further, held while the pilot re-established his min *rest* standards.


This could be interpreted as the pilot is suffering from PTSD from being 'forced' down.



S-2 said:


> Gramps is eagerly awaiting your next iteration of tap-dancing...









Please...Please...No autographs given at this time...Please...


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## asq

paritosh said:


> good good...superpower or not...no bull$hitting us!!!




arrogance can turn friends, into enemies


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## S-2

*"...we saw a similar barrage of needless bravado and counter allegations. Totally pointless."*

Bravado, yes. Needless countering to support the TRUTH? No. Never.

Any soul here- Pakistani, Indian, American or anybody else should take on the responsibility to defend the TRUTH from twisted dissemblance.

I've done so and would do so on behalf of anything as blatantly perverted as what I've illustrated above.

I won't accomodate B.S. nor nonsense that's mean-spirited and intended to promote self-esteem at the expense of the facts.


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## Iggy

Great they were landed here and gone back and we are still busy in war of words  ..There is nothing to argue about..the pilot fail to mention the marines on board the plane so he was asked to land the plain and after completing the procedure they went back..and yea they stayed in a hotel under our security for one night.. end of story..What is there to fight about??..these kind of diplomatical procedure is in every country...


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## asq

When plane was in the air how did India know that there are marines on board,so to make a statement that is after the facts is bending the truth to extreme.

Indian style is to boast, bend the truth and rewrite the history to suit their own agenda.

India rounds on 'cheating' Aussies | The Australian

stars, lies, and box-office

India?s potential lies in her IT reaching out to the masses

A blooming pity.


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## bhishmar

I am seeing some flaming war going on here.
I do think *Infanteer, r3alist, rajiv, toxic_pus, gambit, & pmukherji,* all have summarized neatly the situation in their earlier posts. 
Let me add my two cents.

The aircraft was supposed to carry a military call sign, according to rules, which it has failed to comply.
The pertinent point which is emerging from this incident is that, this (flight) practice was going on unhindered for some time, and the americans (or whomsoever aircraft) was getting used to this unhindered free-ride, while flouting relevant rules. This was partly due to the carelessness of Indian authorities sofar, and partly i suspect due to some leftover servile attitude to white skinned sahibs. I am not indicating any institutional disease here, but the Delhi/Superior bosses or the air-command may not be heeding the complaints from the air-traffic monitoring staff and be looking the other way for some time, US being an ally & et all.

But ALLY or NOT ALLY, everybody has to comply with international rules, and it is good that the authorities have woken up and have put their foot down, and started enforcing it, especially in the aftermath of Mumbai terror incident.

Having said this, I also agree with *"rajiv"* that the procedures could be simplified and rules formulated, to remove any un-necessary redtape & hurdles to the americans flightplan, after ensuring that our air-security & strategic objectives are not compromised in any way. After all Indian government is going fullsteam in the path of a strategic alliance & partnership with US. Thank God that the Indian voters have thrown out the leftists/communists from a significant powerful & influential position (disproportionate than their numbers), holding the ManMohanSingh govt to ransom, especially to anything related to improving relations with US . An ally is surely not for creating hurdles & bad-publicity all the way, impacting on the speed and effectiveness of a friendly force, when it is most needed along with utmost stealth & secrecy, are they? The local media has also played its part in hyping this issue.

*Now coming to S-2's comments:-* @S-2
I find it both surprising and amusing, that you have taken the trouble to chastise some show of bravado & patriotic-fervor! from some of the Indian peers here.
Surprising because from your many posts, i have judged u to be a mature & rational poster, and not much affected by the disease of vanity.
May be I am wrong about the later part!

If you take up cudgels against such show of bravado, in these very forums, then you will never be in a position to put down your pen sir, and u still will have a long backlog MILES long! I have seen the original post (infact a one-liner) from "Renegade" (#35) was a relatively harmless one, which should have merited atmost a refrain or blind-eye.

Instead your machine guns have gone full BLAST. Sir you are definitely guilty of DISPROPORTIONATE use of force THIS TIME. And I think you got carried away by vanity, and childish petulance, which you so accused him of, when u people where nitpicking lines to & fro.



S-2 said:


> *"...we saw a similar barrage of needless bravado and counter allegations. Totally pointless."*
> Bravado, yes. Needless countering to support the TRUTH? No. Never.
> Any soul here- Pakistani, Indian, American or anybody else should take on the responsibility to defend the TRUTH from twisted dissemblance.


OK. Yes. A good and Noble thought.
.


S-2 said:


> I've done so and would do so on behalf of anything as *blatantly perverted* as what I've illustrated above..
> I won't accommodate B.S. nor nonsense that's mean-spirited and intended to promote self-esteem at the expense of the facts.


 *Blatantly perverted?!* What, irked by Renegade's braggish comment on force landing US plane on India-Soil, when rules are not followed? *Blatantly perverted!!!* So much so for facts & perspective!.
And in every such instance you react SO unfailingly? OH NO........
To put it mildly, your above statement reeks of hypocrisy, which I find surprising coming from you!
Hey This forum is awash with such posts most of the times, even with some effort from the moderators. And of much higher grade than that from "Renegade"'s post. Only difference is that in those cases it was mostly from the members of host nation. So come down from your high horse. 
Won't a more accurate depicition would be: 
*"I wont accommodate B.S & nonsense ..... ...., based on my current mood & how much they succeed in irritating me on a given day!"*

regards
& sorry for being harsh towards the end of my post. Could'nt feel like leaving you unscathed


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## KillBill

AliFarooq said:


> This is a brahma vishnu shiva rakhis, and to me it looks a lot like, the guy wearing it.



As they say, you see what you want to see. As the Zaid Hamid has put a cataract on your eyes, you will believe what all you want to believe.

Move on Dude. Kesab is Pakistani and its proved and accepted by your govt.


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## Telescope

Hello all,
I am a long time reader, first time poster(ever, in any forum).
It is certainly possible that the government of Pakistan and its functionaries were not directly handling the terrorists of LET, but they are responsible for forming LET and permitting this attack to be planned and launched in Pakistan. 
Please follow this link and see all 5 parts of the unbiased Channel 4 documentary.
My intention is not to blame all Pakistanis or anything like that, I just hope that reasonable folks will accept facts and not deny any Pak connection with this attack. I even read somebody say some posts earlier that Ajmal spoke in chaste Hindi See for yourselves.

truthtube.tv/play.php?vid=2394


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## Ruag

*Force One commandos set to guard Mumbai*



> MUMBAI: Nearly a year after 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks, the city gets its first batch of Force One commandos, an elite force formed on the lines of National Security Guards (NSG) for the state security.
> 
> "The city would have its own elite force, as the first batch of the Force One has been trained and soon they will become operational," Additional Chief Secretary (Home) Chandra Iyengar said.
> 
> Over 1,600 young policemen from the state had expressed their willingness to join the Force and were given rigorous training by Israeli and German trainers, Iyengar said.
> 
> The State Government has alloted land at Goregaon in western suburbs to the Force for training and easy access in emergency situation, she said.
> 
> The Home Department has also focused on upgradation of police force, coastal security, strengthening Intelligence and participation of local people in security.
> 
> Police Department has been provided with new weapons, vehicles and technologies, which would make them alert in case of any emergency situation, Iyengar said.
> 
> "Police personnel have been trained in such a way that they respond to any situation," she said.
> 
> The information would first go to the local police station and then a Quick Response Team (QRT) would deal with the situation and later, Force One would take charge.
> 
> The QRT is trained in such a way that it would reach a place within 20 minutes. It has also been provided bullet proof jackets and armed vehicles, Iyengar said.
> 
> For the coastal security, the Government has provided high speed boats for patrolling and 'Sagar Suraksha Dal', a group of local fishermen, has been formed to collect information.
> 
> "The fishermen have been provided mobile phones and SIM cards to keep coastal security and police updated if they notice something suspicious," she said, adding, about 40,000 fishermen have received identity cards from the Government.
> 
> The Intelligence structure has been streamlined and strengthened with recruitment of new people and giving them training, she said.
> 
> The department will soon submit a report on the work done to beef up security, a year after the terror attacks, to Chief Minister Ashok Chavan.
> 
> "Lot of work has been done in the year and we are compiling the report to submit it to the chief minister. We would also make it public, as people should know what the department has done," she said.



Force One commandos set to guard Mumbai - Mumbai - City - The Times of India


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## amunhotep

*Ahead of the commonwealth games Delhi is taking no chances

A nervous Delhi has decided to set up a SWAT team probably because of a lack of trust for the NSG's ability to guard Delhi*



> The first Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) team, prepared by the Delhi Police to effectively combat 26/11-like terrorist attacks in the city, is ready for action.
> Police sources said the first batch of 30 police officers - 28 constables and two sub-inspectors - have been trained and kept on stand-by in the event of ambush-style attacks in the city. Two sub-inspectors lead the team.
> 
> Newsline had first reported about a SWAT team being formed by the Delhi Police.
> 
> They (police officers) have undergone training to be part of our first SWAT team and are equipped with the latest of gadgets and machinery. When the newly acquired equipment arrive, they will become an international-standard combat team, ready to tackle any untoward situation, a senior police officer said.
> 
> Special training
> Police officers said the personnel picked up for this team has been trained to perform high-risk operations that fall outside the ambit of the abilities of regular officers, and especially for dealing with terrorists and hardcore criminals.
> 
> Delhi being the national capital, and with a high presence of VVIPs and key installations, is always on the terror radar. After the Mumbai attacks in November last year, a need was felt for having a force that will be equipped to carry out specialised operations, senior police officers added.
> 
> The personnel were trained at the Police Training College and the sub-inspectors were trained by National Security Guard recently, senior police officers said.
> 
> Police officers said SWAT team members will function under the elite Special Cell. The team is on stand-by at the Lodhi Colony office of the Special Cell in South Delhi.
> 
> Equipped to secure
> A police source said that apart from latest machinery and equipment, a bullet-proof vehicle is also being procured by the Delhi Police, which the team members will use to travel to the spot where their presence is needed.
> 
> They will also have specialised equipment, including heavy body armour, entry tools, advanced night vision cameras and motion detectors to covertly determine the positions of hostages or terrorists inside an enclosed structure, police officers added.
> 
> The Delhi Police has also bought two X-ray machine-fitted Mercedes vans, which will be used by the SWAT team. Corner shot guns, developed by Israeli technology, are also expected to be procured by the police soon.
> 
> Apart from advanced weapons, the SWAT team will also carry AK-47s, Glock guns and SLR/INSAS guns, which are commonly used by the Delhi Police force.
> 
> LAPD SWAT
> The concept of SWAT teams gained prominence after being developed by the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD).
> 
> Their SWAT team constitutes a specially trained and equipped unit in the LAPD, intended to respond to and manage critical situations involving shootings, at the same time minimising police casualties. The selected officers are given special status and benefits, and are required to attend special monthly training as well.
> 
> Weaponry: While a wide variety of weapons are used by SWAT teams, the most common weapons include submachine guns, assault rifles, shotguns, and sniper rifles.
> 
> Vehicles: SWAT units in the LAPD usually employ Armoured Rescue Vehicles for personnel insertion, maneuvering or during tactical operations like rescue of civilians/officers trapped by gunfire. Helicopters may be used to provide aerial reconnaissance or even insertion via rappelling or fast-roping.
> 
> Commandos checklist
> * AK-47 rifles with bannet (cap)/scabbard, along with four magazines, 100 rounds
> * Hand grenade for each commando in each shift
> * VLP: Four for each shift with eight rounds in each VLP
> * Wireless set
> * One thin rope
> * Pencil torch
> * Bullet-proof helmet
> * Bullet-proof jacket
> * Dragon torch, five for each shift
> * Cutter, three for each shift
> * Head gear/bullet-proof patka: ten in total issued on rotational basis to the shift
> * One Dangi
> * A pair of jungle shoes
> * Pair of woollen socks
> *n Commando dragger
> *n Pouch and pithoo
> * Pair of anklets
> * Commando cap
> * Commando monogram
> * Two Delhi Police badges
> * Web belt n F sign badge
> * Pair of Left-right breeches
> * Pair of attachment breeches
> * Attachment for pithoo (two)



here is the link

ASIAN DEFENCE: To combat terror, Delhi gets its own SWAT team


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## Jako

Please elaborate your last post amunhotep...


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## Ruag

amunhotep said:


> *Ahead of the commonwealth games Delhi is taking no chances
> 
> A nervous Delhi has decided to set up a SWAT team probably because of a lack of trust for the NSG's ability to guard Delhi*



Various countries have several counter-terrorism units. The United States has some under federal agencies (Ex. FBI's HRT) while there are those under state or county police departments (commonly known as SWAT teams). In this case, NSG is under Indian Home Ministry while the "Force One" is under the Mumbai police.

Sorry to be rude, but almost all of your comments are obnoxious and degrade the entire thread. 

So... keep up the good work.

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## Spring Onion

amunhotep said:


> *Ahead of the commonwealth games Delhi is taking no chances
> 
> A nervous Delhi has decided to set up a SWAT team probably because of a lack of trust for the NSG's ability to guard Delhi*
> 
> 
> 
> here is the link
> 
> ASIAN DEFENCE: To combat terror, Delhi gets its own SWAT team



If i am not wrong you mean too many cooks spoil the (i forgot the idiom)

And if the new force is on the lines of NSG then you mean that there is nothing new.

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## amunhotep

Ruag said:


> If you have something sensible to say, please go ahead. Otherwise, please don't make a mockery of yourself by posting such comments.
> 
> A) Various countries have several counter-terrorism units. The United States has several under federal agencies (Ex. HRT) while there are those under state or county police departments (commonly known as SWAT teams).
> 
> B) Read the article - it clearly says that this team is for Mumbai. How the hell does Commonwealth Games in Delhi even come into the picture?
> 
> Sorry to be rude, but almost all of your comments are obnoxious and degrade the entire thread.
> 
> So... keep up the good work.



arre bhai i uploaded a link to support my judgement but the link didn't upload sou could not see the Source of my information

now i have edited my post so have a look 

P.S : don't rush to judgements


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## amunhotep

Jana said:


> If i am not wrong you mean too many cooks spoil the (i forgot the idiom)
> 
> And if the new force is on the lines of NSG then you mean that there is nothing new.



The Idiom is "Too many cooks spoil the broth"

thanks jana for reading my post *nahin to ye log mere pichhe par gaye the* 

post edit karne ka mauka bhi nahi diya


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## Ruag

Jana said:


> If i am not wrong you mean too many cooks spoil the (i forgot the idiom)
> 
> And if the new force is on the lines of NSG then you mean that there is nothing new.



Uhh... the local police of major metropolises always have dedicated a counter-terror force in addition to federal counter-terror units.

Your country too has something called "Police Commandos" (under Punjab Police) in addition to Special Service Group (under Pakistan Army). Both have over-lapping roles when it comes to counter-terrorism.


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## Spring Onion

Ruag said:


> Uhh... the local police of major metropolises always have dedicated a counter-terror force in addition to federal counter-terror units.
> 
> Your country too has something called "Police Commandos" (under Punjab Police) in addition to Special Service Group (under Pakistan Army). Both have over-lapping roles when it comes to counter-terrorism.



Our local police the normal police ill-equiped and is in bad shape whereas elite force is a very well trained force that is in less in numbers and i feel instead of having too many forces we need to train our existing police force on the lines of elite force.


I dont know about India but by reading about Delhi case there was one elite force called NSG along with normal police in the city still the city went for SWAT team.

So amon was also right that it is going to complicate the situation.


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## Ruag

Jana said:


> Our local police the normal police ill-equiped and is in bad shape whereas elite force is a very well trained force that is in less in numbers and i feel instead of having too many forces we need to train our existing police force on the lines of elite force.
> 
> 
> I dont know about India but by reading about Delhi case there was one elite force called NSG along with normal police in the city still the city went for SWAT team.
> 
> So amon was also right that it is going to complicate the situation.



I thought it was pretty obvious, but here it goes...

Having two or more counter-terror units is beneficial -

1) To deal with emergency situations when these forces are overstretched and the scale of operations are so wide that multiple management is required.

2) Having a federal counter-terror agency is essential for nation-wide scope of operation and coordination. However, whenever there is a terrorist act, the local police is the first to react and it definitely helps if the local police has certain number of trained counter-terror units to respond and manage critical situations before federal counter-terror units arrive. These teams eventually complement each other.

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## Balance

What? Have you people lost your minds?

New forces are created for quick response, better skills and flawless co-ordination.

If they are creating a new force, they must be taking care of the issues.

NSG, though being elite force, is for comparatively more general type of operations. So, they might have felt the need for a force especially trained for such events.

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## idea123

True...the local police force isthe one which has detailed info and knowledge of the area under their protection. All that they lack is the specialised counter terrorist training and equipments.This is what the state gov. is providing them and making them more effective.


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## sancho

amunhotep said:


> The Idiom is "Too many cooks spoil the broth"


Just google a bit and you will find several different special ops forces of military and police in nearly every modern country in the world. So they seem not to think that "Too many cooks spoil the broth" right?
SWAT is a US police speacial ops team and there army, navy, and intelligence have different others. Germany has the KSK military forces and GSG 9 police forces...
So nothing wrong with having an own special ops team of the police in such big cities like Delhi, Mumbai, or Bangalore!


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## Spring Onion

*Bulletproof jacket worn by former ATS chief Hemant Karkare during 26/11 missing*
PTI 10 November 2009, 03:45pm IST 

MUMBAI: *The bulletproof jacket worn by ATS chief late Hemant Karkare during 26/11 terror attacks has gone missing, wife of the slain officer has 
alleged, raising serious questions on the manner in which evidentially important material were preserved*. 

*"When his body was found, the bulletproof jacket was missing...even at the hospital...I filed RTI application few months back asking where is the jacket but the reply I got was that it is missing..," Kavita Karkare told PTI in an interview. *

Karkare, a 1982 batch IPS officer, was killed in an ambush near Cama Hospital, along with another IPS officer Ashok Kamte and encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar during the November 26 terror attacks last year. 

*Despite wearing bullet-proof jackets, the officer received three fatal bullet-injuries in chest which raised question mark over the efficacy of these jackets in the wake of such terror attacks. 

"TV channel recording clearly shows Hemant wearing a jacket at CST and leaving in the van...so where did the jacket go...I do not know if someone took it from him after that or it was removed from his body later, but it is missing...," she said. *

Karkare also raised questions over the manner in which the terror strikes were handled by the Mumbai Police. 

*"I am surprised as to why there was no back-up sent for my husband and other officers in the van...Hemant had asked for back up and was waiting for 40 minutes but no one was sent...," she said. *

She said her husband was not a person who would prefer to sit in air-conditioned cabins and give instructions to subordinates, instead he preferred to take situations head-on. 

"He being a senior officer could have sat in an air-conditioned cabin giving instructions to his subordinates, but he always liked to be on field...," an emotional Karkare said. 

"If a back-up had been sent as soon as Hemant had asked for it, then Kasab and the other terrorist could have been nabbed at Cama lane itself...," she said. 

*Karkare had been credited for solving the serial bomb blasts in Thane, Vashi and Panvel. His investigations also brought forth stunning revelations of involvement of radical saffron group in the September 29 Malegaon blast.* 

Bulletproof jacket worn by former ATS chief Hemant Karkare during 26/11 missing - India - The Times of India

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## skeptic9

Try making a comment on that TOI article hinting a conspiracy, ur post will never be approved. I experienced it multiple times in a row.

I feel it would be dishonest not to mention that once I also saw a comment on TOI on something relating to Mumbai being an inside job, one guy clearly a Pakistani, wrote a huge comment mostly the Pakistani version of the event and his comment was approved!!! . He used words like "hindu-zionist", "inside job" etc on multiple occasions, yet he was approved, idk why.


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## Spring Onion

skeptic9 said:


> Try making a comment on that TOI article hinting a conspiracy, ur post will never be approved. I experienced it multiple times in a row.



There are different types of stuff in a newspaper.

An article is an opinion by a writer which could be anti-India, anti-Pakistan or anti-pro-anything so there is a room for calling it a lie, BS propaganda, conspiracy anything could be think of it.


Then there is a news actual news for example of blast or any attack. That is reported as it is.


Then there are statments by people your PM my PM or anyone which are published either as it is or mouled. But when its in the quotation then means you are quoting the person as it is as what he/she said so you are responsible as a journalist or media org to take the responsibility.

Now this is what Karkare's wife said and ToI published.


If Indian Govt think she lies then the govt would rebute it as well as come up with proofs that bullet-proof jacket is not missing.


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## Spring Onion

skeptic9 said:


> Try making a comment on that TOI article hinting a conspiracy, ur post will never be approved. I experienced it multiple times in a row.
> 
> I feel it would be dishonest not to mention that once I also saw a comment on TOI on something relating to Mumbai being an inside job, one guy clearly a Pakistani, wrote a huge comment mostly the Pakistani version of the event and his comment was approved!!! . He used words like "hindu-zionist", "inside job" etc on multiple occasions, yet he was approved, idk why.



 none of my comments ever approved there even fair and balanced ones anyway thats another issue.


*what you think of this statement by wife of Karkare*


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## skeptic9

Jana said:


> none of my comments ever approved there even fair and balanced ones anyway thats another issue.
> 
> 
> *what you think of this statement by wife of Karkare*



There was clearly a cover-up, and that should be visible to everybody.

And based on circumstantial evidence It appears to me he may have been targeted from inside.


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## Hulk

Bullet proof jacket can go missing since there is an enquiry on it's quality. About bacup not coming in 40 min is common delay. There is conspirecy as blast conspirators are still behind bars.


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## RiazHaq

SM Mushrif, the author of "Who Killed Karkare?" and former police chief of Maharashtra state, has raised some very serious questions about the role of the Indian intelligence in the increasing violence committed by Hindutva outfits against India's minorities, and how India's Intelligence Bureau diverts attention from it by falsely accusing Indian Muslims and Pakistan's ISI, as was done in Malegaon and Samjutha Express blasts.

Haq's Musings: Terror in India--Who Killed Karkare?

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## vnomad

Jana said:


> If Indian Govt think she lies then the govt would rebute it as well as come up with proofs that bullet-proof jacket is not missing.



Its probably missing, question is so what? You can't expect the Mumbai police/civil administration to be as efficient as London's. In the carnage and confusion, one of the bulletproof jackets was misplaced or lost, and that's understandable. 

Here's a possible scenario. It may have happened at the hospital where he as well as the others were rushed. Before declaring him dead on arrival, the doctors might have taken it off him(and the others). Also, other victims from the hotels or railway station would have been in need of urgent care. In the rush and confusion, its possible the need to bag and store the jackets was forgotten or not done efficiently and Karkare's jacket went missing.

Here's another. His jacket was recovered, cleaned, and restored to the general armory but due to administrative problems can't be recognizing(repainted serial number maybe). Alternatively, it was condemned due to its condition and was disposed off.

Maybe, its not with the Mumbai police, but with rest of the hundreds of bits of evidence collected and in the custody of the CBI, or state CID, or Mumbai court trying Kasab, or whoever supposed to have it. 

Here's a fourth and very plausible possibility. The bloodstained jacket vest was rejected by the service (being unusable and not very hard to replace). The ballistic plates were removed and placed into another jacket vest. Hard to trace now, especially if its in the field. 

Point is that a dozen things could have led to it being missing or untraceable. That doesn't imply a conspiracy. And lets face it, even if it was found, what big revelation can be expected from it. Its not a vital piece of evidence.


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## Spring Onion

*Mumbai probe fiasco: bad intelligence or poor media? *


By Jawed Naqvi 
Monday, 16 Nov, 2009 THE Americans have caught two men for plotting attacks in India and the Netherlands. One of the suspects is an American, the other a Canadian of Pakistani origin. According to the Indian media both men are linked to the Mumbai terror attacks of last November.

At least one Indian paper has blamed poor Indian intelligence for not unearthing the important lead themselves. They had to wait for the Americans to unravel the sinister plot, which may have had grave implications for Indias security and for its future ties with Pakistan.

*But what have the Indian media themselves done to help with the Mumbai probe? They cant say it is not their business. Just across the border, it was the Pakistani media that exposed the lie that was being dished out by their government and state institutions  that Ajmal Kasab, the sole surviving suspect in the Mumbai attack, was not a Pakistani. It was the Pakistani media that provided the clinching proof of Kasabs Pakistani identity to the chagrin of their government. It was Pakistani TV and newspaper journalists who exposed the lie. They deserve to be applauded for helping the Mumbai probe*.

The Indian media can legitimately plead that they didnt know enough to reveal anything of consequence. Of course, it is often the case that what they do know they do not always share with the public. That is how the audio-visual details of the terror attack were made available by a British channel, not an Indian one.

Murdochian media everywhere is an acknowledged part of the system, often an extension of the state. In India senior editors are often too busy vying for a Raja Sabha seat to play the peoples sentinel. Barring a few exceptions, much of the so-called mainstream media cannot claim to be the peoples watchdog it once was.

That the Mumbai attack was possible because of poor intelligence is a fact acknowledged by Indian intelligence agencies. So theres no point accusing someone who has already confessed to a failure. The Indian media, however, have not said mea culpa, not yet. There are some ways by which they could yet redeem themselves.

*One way would be to heed important questions raised by the wife of Hemant Karkare, the head of Maharashtras anti-terror squad who was killed under mysterious circumstances on the first night of the three-day reign of terror in Mumbais Colaba district. The latest query raised by Kavita Karkare  a brave and candid lady of rare grace  pertains to the mystery of her husbands missing bullet-proof jacket. What happened to the dead police officers bullet-proof vest? It may hold the key to the mystery surrounding his death.*

*According to a new book by a former chief of Inspector General of the Maharashtra Police, there are strong reasons to bifurcate the terror attacks into two separate episodes and to investigate them separately*. One part of the attacks had a Pakistani connection. These took place in two hotels and a Jewish hostel in a posh area of the Colaba district. The other attacks happened at a busy railway station and in its vicinity. Most people were killed and injured there. Mr Karkare was also killed in the same area off the Rangabhavan Lane.

*The book  Who killed Karkare? The real face of terrorism in India  by S.M. Mushrif raises questions on the basis of the media coverage of the sensational crime that went on for almost three full days. Mushrif has himself predicted what the fate of the book is likely to be. It will be either ignored or it will be trashed without being read. I read it in bits and found it asking pertinent questions about the terror attack that brought the peace process between India and Pakistan to a grinding halt and which killed a pivotal officer investigating Indias own rightwing upper caste extremists*.

*Mushrif brings out an intense rivalry between the countrys external spy agency RAW and the Intelligence Bureau (IB). He squarely blames the IB for allegedly withholding information provided by RAW about the imminent attack on Mumbai. Karkare, a secular police officer, had worked for RAW before his assignment as head of the ATS.*

Subhash Gatade also asks some of the questions raised by Mushrif. In an article carried by Communalism Combat, Gatade noted how before him the ATS had earned lot of disrepute - especially in the eyes of the minority - for its functioning.

The manner in which it had handled the Nanded bomb blasts (April 2006) or Malegaon bomb blasts and also the bomb blasts in local trains (2007) had come under scanner. Perhaps the powers that be were keen that someone with a professional approach takes up the mantle and Hemant Karkare was found to be the ideal person for it. One can presume that there were strong political considerations behind this choice as the secular image of the parties in power - at the state and the centre - had taken a lot of hit because of these mishandlings.

And Karkare demonstrated in a short span of time that he meant business, says Gatade. It was evident in the manner in which he led the investigations into the bomb blasts in Gadkari Rangayatan, Thane and Panvel (June 2008) and ultimately nabbed the Hindutva terrorists belonging to the Sanatan Sanstha and filed a few hundred page charge-sheet against the accused in the stipulated time.

*Looking back it is clear that if the ATS would have been led by any other person who was less professional, it would have been impossible to expose the machinations of this spiritual cult for whom destruction of evil-doers was part of spiritual practice. Although the main charge-sheet against the accused did not contain names of the Sanatan Sanstha and Hindu Janjagruti Samity to which they belonged, he had promised in an interview that in a supplementary charge-sheet this omission would be corrected. It is a different matter that the day did not arrive, Gatade said.*

*Kavita - Karkares wife - had learnt from newspapers that leaders of RSS, BJP, VHP and Shiv Sena were trying all possible means to decelerate the pace of investigations and were exerting lot of direct-indirect pressure on Karkare to go slow with the investigations. A few amongst them had even accused ATS of being on a witch-hunt and some had even demanded that ATS officers should be subjected to narco-analysis to establish their motives.*

Lal Kishan Advani, BJPs prime ministerial candidate had even demanded a change in the ATS and an enquiry into the torture accusations made by the accused. All the top leaders of the BJP-Shiv Sena - who swore by the Indian constitution - had no qualms in declaring full support to the perpetrators and even arranging legal support for them.

In a write-up - The Mumbai Terror Attacks: Need For A Thorough Investigation, R.H., 08 December, 2008 Educate ! Organize ! Agitate ! -- the author provides details of the inconsistencies in the reports about the killing.

*...The earliest reports, presumably relayed from the police via the media, said that Karkare had been killed at the Taj, and Salaskar and Kamte at Metro. If this was not true, why were we told this? And why was the story later changed? Was it because it conflicted with eyewitness accounts? Indeed, under the heading ATS Chief Hemant Karkare Killed: His Last Pics, IBNlive showed footage first of Karkare putting on a helmet and bullet-proof vest, and then a shootout at Metro, where an unconscious man who looks like Karkare and wearing the same light blue shirt and dark trousers (but without any blood on his shirt or the terrible wounds we saw on his face at his funeral) is being pulled into a car by two youths in saffron shirts...*

*Is there a lead in this that newspapers should ideally follow? Or is it to be dismissed as wild rant of a few perennially disgruntled people? In which case how do we place the latest embarrassing question posed by Kavita Karkare?*


DAWN.COM | Columnists | Mumbai probe fiasco: bad intelligence or poor media?


----------



## Spring Onion

*Karkare's wife slams state govt for not providing backup during 26/11*


MUMBAI: Kavita Karkare, the wife of former Maharashtra Anti Terror Squad (ATS) chief Hemant Karkare on Wednesday questioned the state government on 


why her husband and two other senior officials who were killed on 26/11, did not get reinforcements on time. ( Watch Video ) 

This is for the first time that the slain officer's family has confirmed that he did not get the back up when it was required. 

Karkare, along with Additional Commissioner of Police (ACP) Ashok Kamte and Inspector Vijay Salaskar were killed by terrorists near Cama Hospital in Chatrapati Shivaji Terminus during the Mumbai siege. 

Speaking to the media, Kavita said: "I just didn't know anything in the initial six months, politicians, media people and other people were coming to my place, but I was not aware what exactly was going around. Nobody has ever told me that what exactly happened that day. No senior officers have told me till date what had happened with my husband. I have just gathered information from media people, or read in magazines and newspapers, till date I don't know the exact facts of that day." 

*"But when politicians started raising questions saying that he acted in very hasty manner and went for the operation blindly then we started gathering facts about the incident. Then, we came to know that Kamte, Karkare, Salaskar were planning strategy in Cama hospital for 40 minutes. They had asked for help, but they couldn't get help in those 40 minutes. Why they could not get help in 40 minutes, nobody is giving me that answer," she added. *Kavita revealed that she was told by some police officials that it would not be possible for her to get to know what exactly happened with her husband during the terror attacks. 

*She also alleged that Hemant Karkare was left injured and unattended for over 40 minutes and not taken to the hospital on time. *

*"My question is that when these people were there in Cama Lane for 40 minutes, why were they not given any help? And, when there bodies were lying, why the bodies of those people were not picked for about 40 minutes," Kavita questioned.* 

"Today, they are spending millions of rupees to preserve the bodies of the nine militants who launched the attack, just because at international level we have to show that we are showing humanity. But the bodies of martyrs were lying there as it is. What is happening in our country? And when will there be a change," she added. 

*Earlier last week, Kavita also alleged that her husband's bulletproof jacket has gone missing. *

*She said when his body was found, the bulletproof jacket was missing and the Right to Information (RTI) application had not yielded any information on its whereabouts. *
"And, after six months it struck me that his jacket is missing. But I was not in my senses to file RTI application. Now two months back when I filed RTI, I came to know that the jacket is actually missing," Kavita said.

Karkare's wife slams state govt for not providing backup during 26/11 - India - The Times of India

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## ambidex

The state of Indian police is like typical of any third world nation police. Karkare was killed by terrorists this is the only truth nothing else. 
It is an unfortunate fact that brave soldiers like karkare are still giving their precious lives and embracing martyrdom for motherland. These lives were supposed to be saved at times when a war was raised on the crowded streets of Mumbai. The chaos which created dysfunction and poor coordination was unprovoked and never expected. The whole karkare episode is sorry state of Indian defence preparations, fraud and frustration. 
Karkare's prior investigations has nothing to do with his personal misfortune and poor judgment to analyse gravity of that war against urban India. 
BJP and other Hindu organizations were nor in power at state assembly neither national assembly. It was never a cup of tea for parties like BJP to conspire against Top Police official like Kerkare at such level.
166 precious human lives were cold bloodedly snatched. People were killed while eating food in restaurants. Kids were shot at middle of their eyes. Dead bodies were used as mine traps. No national party in power or out power would have even thought about such political suicide. period.

Pakistanis those who are trying their level best to raise suspicion in the minds of everyone by pasting such article; explaining nothing but sorry state of Indian police and judiciary. This is not going to help to feel them self off the hook. You are playing with fire and setting unjust precedent for your own people, given the fact your own contemporary state of national security is not better then India. 
Please tell us some thing new.


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## Spring Onion

We are not trying to raise any suspicion. Rather Indians should ask questions about death of Karkare. There is alot to which is still missing.


The Mumbai attacks are separate then killing of Karkare.

And oh it is not some small case where police or Indian set up lost the bullet proof jacket.

It simply shows that Karkare was killed according to the plan.


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## ambidex

Jana said:


> We are not trying to raise any suspicion. Rather Indians should ask questions about death of Karkare. There is alot to which is still missing.
> 
> 
> The Mumbai attacks are separate then killing of Karkare.
> 
> And oh it is not some small case where police or Indian set up lost the bullet proof jacket.
> 
> It simply shows that Karkare was killed according to the plan.



Precisely,Your assertions can not be ruled out. 
But what ever i have explained above is natural and self explanatory. This is how Indian corrupt police and law enforcement system works. A wealthier supplier and a corrupt politician who ordred/purchased those jackets and earned heaps of corrupt money is now trying to alter evidence. Being an outsiders we all can suggest scenarios, to me this theory is much acceptable. Why he was not provided prompt medical aid etc. as i mentioned are testimonies to Indian dysfunctionality, nothing else. We(Indians) are bigger but not better.
Furthermore if Karkare was the only target who was killed within first two hours of attack then there was no point for those who were involved to continue rest of the massacre.


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## ambidex

oh i missed your point mentioning both incidents as isolated/separate one.

Karkare was alerted about this attack and rest of the machinery was activated simultaneously. There is no record of two separate alerts on that day. Terrorists were in different groups with semiautomatic guns and many police parties were trying to intercept them. During those interceptions dozens of police personals were either killed or injured including Hemant Karkare.


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## Spring Onion

If you were probing Mumbai attacks then missing of a vital gear worn by Karkare proves that You indians are playing foul here.

It proves two things


1. Either the bullet proof jacket was not a bullet proof jacket and Karkare was intentionaly provided something which was part of his killing.

2. If was indeed a real bullet-proof jacket then why you need to hide it ?

3. If it is missing then it shows the level of authenticity of Indian investigation.

All these things point towards a coverup which your Indian government is playing


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## Nemesis

Jana, Why this obsession with Hemant Karkare? He wasn't the only police office to be killed in the Mumbai attacks. 

Is it your not so subtle way of hinting at a conspiracy behind Mumbai? There was no conspiracy. 

Regrading the vests, according to an RTI filed by former police officers, defunct vests were brought by the Mumbai police. The story has all the hints of a scam. But not a conspiracy. No back up was provided to Karkare because the Mumbai police messed up in figuring out the scale of the attacks on the first day, many many mistakes were committed. In their defence however, there was a lot of conflicting info flying around during the first few hours. 



> SM Mushrif, the author of "Who Killed Karkare?" and former police chief of Maharashtra state, has raised some very serious questions about the role of the Indian intelligence in the increasing violence committed by Hindutva outfits against India's minorities, and how India's Intelligence Bureau diverts attention from it by falsely accusing Indian Muslims and Pakistan's ISI, as was done in Malegaon and Samjutha Express blasts.



Get it right, Samjautha express wasn't done by Hindu organizations, it was done by Lashkar. Read UN resolutions on this before posting ignorant info. 

Apparently, some people think Karkare was killed because he ruffled too many feathers in the Hindu right establishment because of his investigations. If that were true, his investigations would have collapsed right after his death, it hasn't. 

That traitor Purohit and other accused still face trial for the Malegaon bombings. Nor has anyone stopped investigating Hindu organizations as the recent find by the Goa police tells us. 

There was no conspiracy during 26/11, anyone who believes that is delusional.


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## Goodperson

What a Post ? Still infatuated with TOI?

Whole India got confused Mumbai police did not know the gravity of situation, Kakare was accompanied by famed Mumbai police shooter Salaskar and Kamathe. But all were killed this happened because even they did not know the gravity of situation. Plus they were carrying pistols and small guns against AK47's used by terrorists.

The question asked by Ms Kakare is that why there was 40 minutes deay to respond. She questions that because her loss cannot be recovered.

Coordinating and getting directions from Central and authorities easily takes that much time. If it was possible then Maharstra police could have reduced the fatalites from 170+ innocent persons.

No need to score here.


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## SMC

> Apparently, some people think Karkare was killed because he ruffled too many feathers in the Hindu right establishment because of his investigations. If that were true, his investigations would have collapsed right after his death, it hasn't.


 They have been sweeped under the rug nonetheless. Is the killing of 3 people investigating right wing hindu terrorists within the first 15 minutes of the attack a mere coincidence? That's a better question to ask.



> Furthermore if Karkare was the only target who was killed within first two hours of attack then there was no point for those who were involved to continue rest of the massacre.


 If indeed it was right wing hindus who were behind this, then it would be a bloody suicide for them because it would be obvious as hell who was behind it.


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## Goodperson

Ahsan_R said:


> They have been sweeped under the rug nonetheless. Is the killing of 3 people investigating right wing hindu terrorists within the first 15 minutes of the attack a mere coincidence? That's a better question to ask.
> 
> If indeed it was right wing hindus who were behind this, then it would be a bloody suicide for them because it would be obvious as hell who was behind it.



Do not bluff how is it possible to conspire to kill him without knowing movements of terrorist?

Kindly prosecute Saeed to know the facts.

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## Spring Onion

Goodperson said:


> Do not bluff how is it possible to conspire to kill him without knowing movements of terrorist?
> 
> Kindly prosecute Saeed to know the facts.



You dont want to see your cover up or faults here.

karkare's wife is not on our parol


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## vnomad

Jana said:


> *"But when politicians started raising questions saying that he acted in very hasty manner and went for the operation blindly then we started gathering facts about the incident. Then, we came to know that Kamte, Karkare, Salaskar were planning strategy in Cama hospital for 40 minutes. They had asked for help, but they couldn't get help in those 40 minutes. Why they could not get help in 40 minutes, nobody is giving me that answer," she added. *



There were 150 dead people in the city, that's why. The police did not even know the ATS team was dead, let alone _where_ the ambush had happened.



> Kavita revealed that she was told by some police officials that it would not be possible for her to get to know what *exactly* happened with her husband during the terror attacks.



What the heck would she like to know. The police van in which he was travelling was ambushed and he was killed in the encounter. What's left to _exactly_ know? Did he die on the spot or did he succumb to injuries gradually? Well since everyone who was around him is dead, you can't blame the police officials for saying that she'll never know. The testimony of the lone policeman to survive the incident is on record and has been released to the media.



> *She also alleged that Hemant Karkare was left injured and unattended for over 40 minutes and not taken to the hospital on time. *



The terrorists who hijacked the van were not rushing to the hospital and there was no one else around to help. Its a terrible thing for Mrs. Karkare to go through, but she will eventually have to reconcile with the fact that her husband died at the hands of terrorists and making obscure inquiries will not give her closure.



> *"My question is that when these people were there in Cama Lane for 40 minutes, why were they not given any help? And, when there bodies were lying, why the bodies of those people were not picked for about 40 minutes," Kavita questioned.*



Because we're a third world country and the police force and public administration was in disarray.


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## vnomad

Jana said:


> We are not trying to raise any suspicion. Rather Indians should ask questions about death of Karkare. There is *alot to which is still missing*.



Like what?



> The Mumbai attacks are separate then killing of Karkare.



So, you think its a coincidence that both happened at the same time.



> And oh it is not some small case where police or Indian set up lost the bullet proof jacket.



The chaos caused by over 150 deaths in the space of a few hours isn't something the city's administration was expected to cope with. 



> It simply shows that Karkare was killed according to the plan.



Do elaborate on that plan please.


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## vnomad

Jana said:


> If you were probing Mumbai attacks then missing of a vital gear worn by Karkare proves that You indians are playing foul here.
> 
> It proves two things
> 
> 
> 1. Either the bullet proof jacket was not a bullet proof jacket and Karkare was intentionaly *provided something* which was part of his killing.



Provided by whom? You seem to have a very hazy idea of how the Indian police establishment works.



> 2. If was indeed a real bullet-proof jacket then why you need to hide it ?



No one's _hiding_ it.



> 3. If it is missing then it shows the level of authenticity of Indian investigation.



That's assuming it was ever documented as evidence by the investigating authorities. How do you know it wasn't lost at the hospital where his body was taken?



> All these things point towards a coverup which your Indian government is playing



All these conspiracy theories went up in smoke, when *your colleagues in the Pakistani media, proved that Ajmal Kasab was a Pakistani citizen*.


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## kumar_V1.0

Ahsan_R said:


> They have been sweeped under the rug nonetheless. Is the killing of 3 people investigating right wing hindu terrorists within the first 15 minutes of the attack a mere coincidence? That's a better question to ask.
> 
> If indeed it was right wing hindus who were behind this, then it would be a bloody suicide for them because it would be obvious as hell who was behind it.




do u have an Idea how Indian polity is organized. the time this event happened Central as well state govt had congress govt's supported by extreme left. With elections around in both center as well as state what advantage congress would have got. Why They will sweep this and not use this opportunity to frame them and finish there chances of any hopes for elections. 
*
Admin Edit: Cut out the personal attacks.*


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## Goodperson

Jana said:


> You dont want to see your cover up or faults here.
> 
> karkare's wife is not on our parol



Look inwards she is only emotional which is far from reality.

Look inwards how BB was killed with full security provided?


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## SMC

kumar_V1.0 said:


> Done with ur quota of BS today.
> 
> do u have an Idea how Indian polity is organized. the time this event happened Central as well state govt had congress govt's supported by extreme left. With elections around in both center as well as state what advantage congress would have got. Why They will sweep this and not use this opportunity to frame them and finish there chances of any hopes for elections.
> 
> sorry but world doesn't work on your fantasies.



You didn't answer my question or concern but just went off tanget. Let me ask this again. Is it a mere coincidence that he was killing really early in the attacks?

Goodperson, don't understand what you're trying to say here. Use more clear english.


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## MastanKhan

kumar_V1.0 said:


> Done with ur quota of BS today.
> 
> do u have an Idea how Indian polity is organized. the time this event happened Central as well state govt had congress govt's supported by extreme left. With elections around in both center as well as state what advantage congress would have got. Why They will sweep this and not use this opportunity to frame them and finish there chances of any hopes for elections.
> 
> sorry but world doesn't work on your fantasies.




Hello sir,

Barely 3 months on this board and you are telling a senior member "---done with your Bs "---

No---we are done with your BS---consider this the first warning---.


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## MastanKhan

Goodperson said:


> Look inwards she is only emotional which is far from reality.
> 
> Look inwards how BB was killed with full security provided?



Hi,

Even though both were executed---there were similiarities, in a different way, to either of those situations---both were seemingly set up, Karkare became the victim of circumstances that he was shoved into---BB became a victim of her own indulgence----seemingly Karkare was conveniently executed under the guise of a terrorist attack---.


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## StingRoy

Jana said:


> If you were probing Mumbai attacks then missing of a vital gear worn by Karkare proves that You indians are playing foul here.
> 
> It proves two things
> 
> 1. Either the bullet proof jacket was not a bullet proof jacket and Karkare was intentionaly provided something which was part of his killing.



Bullet proof jacket does not mean that you are immune to a bullet. There are various grades of bullet proof jackets and different grades of ammunition which can penetrate them. Without knowing the facts how can you accuse that the bullet proof jacket was not bullet proof. I would be really astonished if it was the case.


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## vnomad

Ahsan_R said:


> They have been sweeped under the rug nonetheless. Is the killing of 3 people investigating right wing hindu terrorists within the first 15 minutes of the attack a mere coincidence? That's a better question to ask.



Only one of the three was investigating the right wing Hindu terrorists. And as the chief of the ATS, his job _was_ high-risk. And their deaths were not within 15 minutes, Hemant Karkare was informed of the attacks(at VT railway station) within 15 minutes of their beginning. He died much later.



> If indeed it was right wing hindus who were behind this, then it would be a bloody suicide for them because it would be obvious as hell who was behind it.





MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> seemingly Karkare was conveniently executed under the guise of a terrorist attack---.




If you read up on the Hindu terrorist group you'll realize, they simply were too insignificant/uninfluential for someone to orchestrate something of the scale of the Mumbai attacks. 

28 foreign nationals from 10 countries died in the attacks. The attacks were subsequently investigated by the FBI, Scotland Yard and the Israelis. And its straining the bounds of reason to think they would have gone along with a grand conspiracy that basically aimed to assassinate Karkare. Also, the NSA(in the US) as well as Indian intelligence was monitoring Lashkar-e-Taiba communications and relayed information that an attack was impending though exact details were unavailable.


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## Vassnti

Jana said:


> 2. If was indeed a real bullet-proof jacket then why you need to hide it ?



I would have thought the simple explanation if indeed the vest is missing is that the vests were found to be less than specification as i belive happened with some vests in pakistan as well.

Manufacturers cut "a few corners" a few people are paid not to notice and brave men are on the line in substandard equipment.


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## atleast_a_bronze

Jana said:


> We are not trying to raise any suspicion. Rather Indians should ask questions about death of Karkare. There is alot to which is still missing.
> 
> 
> The Mumbai attacks are separate then killing of Karkare.
> 
> And oh it is not some small case where police or Indian set up lost the bullet proof jacket.
> 
> It simply shows that Karkare was killed according to the plan.




Should learn a thing or two about blowing up things in a nice way, from you.
A nice figment of imagination to say that the killing of Karkare was a separate incident unrelated to the Mumbai attacks. As you had already said, he was killed early in the attacks.
No one had any clue about the gravity of the attacks that was going to unleash itself. 

And I had to agree that the bullet proof vest was just bullet proof in it's name. Perhaps it was a toy vest

"The bullet-proof jackets worn by then State ATS chief Hemant Karkare and two senior police officers Ashok Kamte and Vijay Salaskar, killed in the 26/11 attacks, were of sub-standard quality, according to a public interest petition filed in the Bombay High Court.

The jackets, worn by Kakare and other police officers on the night of November 26, 2009, were among a lot of 110 jackets rejected first as sub-standard ones and bought later from the same supplier without tests, according to the petition."

The Pioneer > Online Edition : >> Karkare?s bullet proof vest was of ?sub standard quality?

India isn't New Zealand or Singapore and corruption is a way of life.
The Maharashtra govt would have thought that the police would never ever be in a situation of using the jackets. So why buy original...lets go in for dupes  nice idea though...and fill the pvt coffers of politicians with that bribed money.
So it's their duty to hide their cover up aka hide the jacket or related info, which they are known to do with perfection.
This is as expected and business as usual.


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## Goodperson

Bullet proof Jacket was worn by many in police forces not especialy made for Karkare. ACP Salasker also he had more fame Mr Kamathe also died. Media is giving more prominence to Mrs Karkare accusation that too which came after 6 months. She is raising such issues as delay of 40 minutes which is much trivial given the bureaucracy and confusion at time of terrorist attack. 

People with no knowledge are just making statements.

@ Mastan Khan
Was retuning to Pakistan was BB's fault ? Army was ruling they provided full security only for her isn't it they knew terrorist can strike anywhere.

Even now high profile Military targets are attacked can Pakistan do something to prevent them?

Karkare was in Anti terrorist dept head he took lead with other high profile police officers and unfortunately was not equipped with guns which can take on AK47.

You know one police officer took down the terrorist with bare hands even though terrorist was pumping bullets in him and he died. Does his family complain of conspiracy?

Even though not connected I can cite a interesting things learned in forums.

_I came to know that Pakistan funded and armed Mukti Bahini only to accuse India after 1971. It kept BD away from mainstream Politics of Pakistan so that it can be separated. I will stop here._

Now tell me how you can prove otherwise ?


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## Spitfighter

The bodies of nine gunmen killed during attacks on the Indian city of Mumbai a year ago are still awaiting burial.

The unclaimed bodies are lying in a local government hospital and Mumbai police say they have still to take a decision about their future.

Muslim clerics had denied permission to bury the bodies in Mumbai graveyards, saying the actions of the gunmen had "defamed" their religion.

Ten men attacked Mumbai on 26 November 2008, killing more than 170 people.

Only one gunman, Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab, survived and he is currently facing trial.

'Un-Islamic'

The bodies are being kept in the morgue of Sir JJ Hospital. Officials say the area is secluded and guarded around the clock. The seal is checked every day.

TEN NAMED GUNMEN
Named militants. Mumbai police website
Nasir, alias Abu Umar (Nariman House)
Abu Ali (Taj Palace)
Soheb (Taj Palace)
Fahad Ullah (Oberoi)
Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab(survived)
Bada Abdul Rehaman (above left, Taj Palace)
Abdul Rehaman Chota (above right, Oberoi)
Ismal Khan (CST station)
Babar Imaran (Nariman House)
Nazir, alias Abu Omer (Taj Palace)

The question of what should be done with the dead militants arose soon after the attacks.

Pakistan flatly refused to take them despite India's argument that they should go back to the country from which they originated.

After post-mortem examinations the bodies were taken to the hospital morgue as Indian Muslims said they would not allow the bodies to be buried in their cemeteries.

Ibrahim Tai, president of the Muslim Council Trust, says he opposes such burials as the gunmen's actions were un-Islamic.

He says if the bodies have to be buried, it should be at "an unknown location".

"We know Indian authorities are stuck as the bodies have not been claimed by Pakistan. These nine people should not be identified by anyone. If they are buried without leaving any trace, then it is fine with us.

"We believe that their actions should not be praised or recognised by anyone. If they set up tombs then tourists will visit and people will talk about it. We don't want that to happen," he said.

Local Muslim cleric Maulana Mustaqil Azmi said it was important that the bodies were disposed of soon and that the matter was closed.

"We do not want them to be buried on any of our burial grounds but they can be disposed of anywhere else in India. Good Muslims are laid to rest in our burial grounds. We do not believe that these nine men are true followers of Islam."

Police say the bodies have been embalmed and are well preserved but a decision on burial has yet to be taken given the religious sensitivity. 

BBC News - Bodies of gunmen in Mumbai attacks remain unburied 


In a repeat of the Kargil episode, Pakistan has refused to accept the bodies of its citizens. Why do you guys think they've refused to accept their dead once again?

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## Materialistic

whatever they did was Un-Islamic, and forbidding to bury them in Bombay is a sign to show that we do not support this, agreed, but they should be buried because now they are gone so now its not possible neither of any use to do anything with the bodies,they should be buried silently somewhere.


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## Goodperson

Materialistic said:


> whatever they did was Un-Islamic, and forbidding to bury them in Bombay is a sign to show that we do not support this, agreed, but they should be buried because now they are gone so now its not possible neither of any use to do anything with the bodies,they should be buried silently somewhere.



They cannot be buried in India.

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## arihant

Goodperson said:


> They cannot be buried in India.



They can be but not in kabrastan for the reason that Muslim board has al ready disallowed it.


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## Seadog1

Materialistic said:


> whatever they did was Un-Islamic, and forbidding to bury them in Bombay is a sign to show that we do not support this, agreed, but they should be buried because now they are gone so now its not possible neither of any use to do anything with the bodies,they should be buried silently somewhere.



I think they should be stuffed and put in an exibit with other animals.


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## arihant

Seadog1 said:


> I think they should be stuffed and put in an exibit with other animals.



great idea. Can be done in state of meghalaya's forest.


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## StingRoy

Pack all of them in a room and blow them... as they are doing to hundreds of innocents


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## zagahaga

oh shut up..... they should IF THEY ARE MUSLIMS this is haram ...... the soo called suck ups that are showing that ..ohhhh we are against terriost should stop wateing for their owner to come and pat them on the head .. and bury them


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## Goodperson

Seadog1 said:


> I think they should be stuffed and put in an exibit with other animals.



They can be thrown in lake infested with Crocodiles.


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## grey boy 2

*David Headley: quiet American with alleged links to Mumbai massacre - Times Online*

From The Times November 21, 2009

David Headley: 

In almost every way, David Headley was the perfect neighbour. When the 49-year-old American citizen began renting an apartment in Mumbai last year he charmed his landlord, treated his laundry boy with respect, and befriended Bollywood figures at a local gym. 

He told them that he was Jewish, and running an immigration agency from a respectable part of town. Sweet and charming, said his landlady. Down to earth, said his personal trainer. 

Not until the past few days did they learn of his alleged other identity  and of quite how close security figures claim India may have come to a repeat of the militant attacks on Mumbai a year ago next week. 

Apparently, Mr Headleys original name was Daood Gilani. He was born in Pakistan, and is suspected of helping the terrorists who carried out last years Mumbai attack, and of planning another atrocity this year. 

It alleges that he worked with Harkat ul-Jihad al-Islami (Huji), a Pakistan militant group, and Lashkar e-Taiba (LeT), the Pakistan group blamed for last years Mumbai attacks. The document also outlines claims that he was involved in the Mickey Mouse Project  a plan to attack Jyllands-Posten, the Danish newspaper whose cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad in 2005 infuriated Muslims across the world. 

It also allegedly shows that he and an apparent accomplice visited India several times between 2006 and 2009, and appear to have discussed attacking Indian targets as recently as September this year. 

Indian investigators are now examining whether Mr Headley may be the missing link in the Mumbai attacks, which killed more than 170 people between November 26 and 29 last year. They are also investigating claims that he may have planned attacks this year on targets including the National Defence College in Delhi, the private Doon School in Dehradun, northern India, or even a nuclear facility. 

In the process, they are shedding light on the evolving threat from LeT and its allies, and on Indias haphazard  but so far successful  efforts to respond. This is yet another wake-up call for India, said B. Raman, a former counter-terrorism chief in the Indian external intelligence service, the Research and Analysis Wing. 

This shows LeT is as determined as ever to attack India, and they are now using Western territory and foreign Muslims to do it. 

The most striking aspect of the Headley case is his profile: unlike other militant suspects, he is middle-aged, speaks fluent English, and lives in Chicago. 

The son of a Pakistani diplomat and an American woman, he went to cadet college in Pakistan before moving to the US when he was 16. 

In 1997, he was jailed for 15 months for trying to smuggle heroin into the US, according to court documents. 

Yet by simply changing his name in 2006, he stayed under the radar on at least nine visits to India over the past three years. 

The FBI says that in the alleged activities he was helped by Tahawwur Hussain Rana, a Canadian citizen of Pakistani origin who studied at the same cadet college, and was also arrested in the US last month. 

Mr Ranas immigration agency, which has offices in Chicago, helped to arrange Mr Headleys trips and provided his cover story, according to the FBI. 

To burnish his fake Jewish credentials, Mr Headley even carried a book called How to Pray like a Jew, the FBI says. The FBI appears to have placed him under surveillance after noticing his frequent movements between India, Pakistan, the Gulf and Europe. 

It alerted Indian authorities after intercepting an e-mail in which Mr Headleys alleged handler appears to give him a coded message suggesting an attack on India. 

I need to see you for some new investment plans, the affidavit quotes the handler as saying. 

When Mr Headley asks where, the handler suggests that he should say hi to Rahul in what the FBI says is a reference to a prominent Indian actor. 

The actor has since been identified as Rahul Bhatt, a minor Bollywood star, who has admitted befriending Mr Headley in Mumbai. 

In a telephone intercept in September, Mr Headley and Mr Rana are heard discussing five alleged targets and mentioning Defence College, according to the affidavit. 

Mr Headley and Mr Rana have yet to respond to the affidavit. 

But Indian and Western officials and analysts agree that the evidence presented so far appears to underline the global reach and ambitions of Huji and LeT. It also confirms Indias long-held fears that such groups might use foreigners of Pakistani or Indian origin, forcing it to tighten visa procedures. 

Western governments had already adapted to that threat, but are worried that Mr Headley and Mr Rana may have used their immigration agency to move militants around the globe. 

They are also increasingly aware of the threat to their own citizens in India  particularly during next years Commonwealth Games in Delhi. 

Prior to Mumbai, LeT was largely seen as a regional threat, said one Western diplomat. 

Mumbai brought home that attacking India could directly impact Western interests, by killing their nationals, and also their indirect interests by destabilising the region. 

There is less agreement, however, on what the case says about Indias domestic security. 

Some say that LeT and its allies are becoming more desperate as the Pakistan Army  which once sponsored them  has become distracted by its own campaign against the Taleban. 

India has also taken a number of steps to improve its security apparatus. It has, for example, now established the National Investigation Agency, and it is amending legislation to give increased powers to the security services. 

P. Chidambaram, the new Home Minister, has now started chairing a meeting of the heads of all the countrys important security agencies every morning. 

The National Security Guard  whose commandos took eight hours to get to Mumbai from their Delhi headquarters last year during the attacks  has expanded its numbers and set up hubs in four more cities, including Mumbai. 

What about the past, almost 365, days? said J. K. Dutt, the former NSG chief who led last years Mumbai operation. There havent been any terrorist attacks since Mumbai. Doesnt that also speak of the fact that there are steps the country has taken? 

Critics, however, say that India had a lucky escape thanks only to the FBI. Others question whether the US should have informed India earlier that it was watching Mr Headley. 

Yet the biggest concern of all is still the underfunded and short-staffed police, a force which under Indias Constitution is the responsibility of state governments. 

When are we going to improve the training, consciousness and capability of local police? asked Arun Bhagat, a former head of the Indian Intelligence Bureau. Central agencies can only do so much.


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## vsdoc

Why waste perfectly good bodies?

Prep them in formalin tanks and donate them to a Medical College.

Most Govt. teaching hospitals have a huge shortage of cadavers for dissection at most times ..... no reason why these 9 should not do some good to humanity in death at least.

Cheers, Doc

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## Icarus

Feed them to crocodiles, tigers, exhibit them or dissect them, do whatever you want we don't want them, we have had enough with terrorists.


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## vsdoc

Sorry to disappoint you buddy but the formalin jar exhibits are only reserved for teaching specimens if there is something out of place or unique or pathological or anatomical (for example, we had a double-headed glans penis in our anatomy museum).

The rest of the body parts day by day are cut, dissected, discussed, and when its done, and its time to move deeper, that part is disposed off in stainless steel buckets, for disposal in the municipal incinerator with other bio-medical waste.

Cheers, Doc


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## vsdoc

Most cadavers are either those donated to medical research or unclaimed bodies. These, like other cross-border militants killed daily in J&K, fall under the "unclaimed bodies" category, and there have been numerous petitions from the medical fraternity across the country to utilize them in teaching hospitals. 

In most dissection labs of Govt. hospitals, you would have 10-15 to even 20 students crammed around a single cadaver (in AFMC we had 6 to a cadaver). Believe me, with that ratio its impossible to get a chance to cut or see anything for most excepting the most shraddhalu students. 

This move if accepted by the Govt. would go a long way in making better Indian doctors, who ironically tomorrow might even save Pakistani lives.

Cheers, Doc

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## EjazR

zagahaga said:


> oh shut up..... they should IF THEY ARE MUSLIMS this is haram ...... the soo called suck ups that are showing that ..ohhhh we are against terriost should stop wateing for their owner to come and pat them on the head .. and bury them



I'm afraid you still don't understand WHY mumbai muslims are so against this. Up to 45-50 muslims were shot in cold blood along with people from 22 different countries around the world. Just one muslim family lost 14 members leaving only one 12 year old boy and his uncle alive. And you still think they are "suck ups"? Wake up and stop making such insulting statements .

In fact, why doesn't GoP accept these bodies and give them the burial and closure with their families. Isn't it haram for the GoP to deny this to their family members?

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## S-2

Doc's got the correct answer. Don't waste a perfectly good cadaver that might benefit medical research.

Pakistan won't claim them for a variety of reasons so, short of incinerating them, send them to med school where they'll eventually find the incinerator anyway.

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## Spring Onion

vsdoc said:


> Why waste perfectly good bodies?
> 
> Prep them in formalin tanks and donate them to a Medical College.
> 
> Most Govt. teaching hospitals have a huge shortage of cadavers for dissection at most times ..... no reason why these 9 should not do some good to humanity in death at least.
> 
> Cheers, Doc



Good Idea Doc. Because the Indian students would find their ancestral genes amongst you 

we had claimed only three persons as Pakistanis two are alive that is Kasab who is in your custody and one is under investigation in Pakistan and the third one is dead.

So we can get only dead body which belongs to Pakistan.

The rest 8 either Indians or whatever their country of origin is you should keep them, feed them to anyone you want, we have no concern.

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## Roby

*Italy arrests two Pakistanis for Mumbai attacks
*
ROME: Police in Italy&#8217;s northern city of Brescia arrested two Pakistanis accused of logistical support for last year's terror attacks in Mumbai, Italy's ANSA news agency reported.

The two men arrested Saturday used a money transfer agency they managed to send funds for the attacks, ANSA cited police sources as saying.

The money was used to pay for an Internet phone account used by people in contact with the attackers.

The agency said the two were accused of aiding and abetting as well as illegal financial activity. &#8212; AP

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...rrests-two-pakistanisfor-mumbai-attacks-qs-07


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## jaunty

*Italy arrests 2 Pakistanis for Mumbai attacks*​
AP 21 November 2009, 01:43pm IST

ROME: Italian police on Saturday arrested two Pakistani men accused of providing logistical support for last year's terror attacks in Mumbai, officials said.

The two, father and son, were arrested in an early morning raid in Brescia, police in the northern Italian city said.

*The suspects managed a money transfer agency and helped fund the Nov. 26 attacks, police said in a statement. The day before the attacks they transferred money to activate an Internet phone account that was used by the attackers and their accomplices, said Stefano Fonzi, the head of anti-terror police in Brescia.
*
Italian police began the probe in December after being alerted by the FBI that the money had been sent from Italy, Fonzi told The Associated Press.

The funds were transferred under the identity of another Pakistani man who had never been in Italy and was not involved in the alleged crimes, he said.

The two are accused of aiding and abetting international terrorism as well as illegal financial activity.

Transferring funds using the identity of other people was a common practice at the Brescia agency, Fonzi said in a telephone interview.

*Two more Pakistanis were arrested in Saturday's raids for allegedly committing fraud and other crimes using the same system, but they were not linked to the Mumbai attacks. A fifth Pakistani man escaped arrest and was still being sought.*

Under the same branch of the probe, 12 other people were flagged to prosecutors for possible investigation but were not arrested, Fonzi said.


Italy arrests 2 Pakistanis for Mumbai attacks - India - The Times of India


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## jaunty

*Sky News-------*

* Italy Police Arrest Two Mumbai Terror Suspects*​

9:30am UK, Saturday November 21, 2009

Two Pakistanis suspected of being involved in the Mumbai terror attacks have been arrested in Italy.

*The two men, who are father and son,* were arrested in an early morning raid in the northern city of Brescia.

They are believed to have provided logistical support for the terror attacks in November last year which left 170 people dead.

*A police statement said the suspects managed a money transfer agency and helped fund the attacks.*

*The day before the attacks, the men transferred money to activate an Internet phone account that was used by the Mumbai gunmen and their accomplices, said Stefano Fonzi, the head of anti-terror police in Brescia.*

Mr Fonzi said Italian police began investigating in December, after being alerted by the FBI that the money had been sent from Italy.

The funds were transferred under the identity of another Pakistani man, who had never been in Italy and was not involved in the alleged crimes, Mr Fonzi added.

The two are accused of aiding and abetting international terrorism, as well as illegal financial activity.

According to police, transferring funds using the identity of other people was a common practice at the Brescia agency.


Mumbai Terror Attacks: Italian Police Arrest Two Pakistanis | World News | Sky News


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## pkd

These bodies should be handed over to shiv sena, these guys have loads of experience in handling such kind of stuff.


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## vsdoc

I don't know about ancestral genes Jana ..... since neither of us know about the sexual proclivities of our ancestors, so short of proper DNA-mapping, I'll return the wink to you too. 

That said, I agree with you that there is too much ho ha about what to do with the bodies and authorities pussy footing on the incineration bit ..... as if it would in some way rile our Muslims.

And as you rightly put it, we don't even know for sure that these bodies belonged to Muslims in the first place. All we have is kasb's word for it. The rest as per you guys are all fairy tales.

So burn these preserved shells and free up precious morgue resources.

Or hand over the bodies to medical students.

Or throw them into the sea.

Who the hell cares!

Cheers, Doc


----------



## beckham

How about hanging them in a gibbet in the British style ?? 
I think that would deter other existing or potential waterborne idiots !

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## shhhahuuu

India have no proofs for Pakistan's involvement in mumbai attacks and still blames Pakistan as per habbit.. haah... Indians have been blaming Pakistan for SAMJHOTA EXPRESS INCIDENT as well... what was the result... is MR PROHAT a Pakistani??? can sm1 answer it..


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## New Shivaji

shhhahuuu said:


> India have no proofs for Pakistan's involvement in mumbai attacks and still blames Pakistan as per habbit.. haah... Indians have been blaming Pakistan for SAMJHOTA EXPRESS INCIDENT as well... what was the result... is MR PROHAT a Pakistani??? can sm1 answer it..



India and the world has plenty of evidence on pakistani's involvement in mumbai attacks, as far is GOP 's involvment is concerned- Jury is still out there.

Mr. Purohit was blamed for Malegaon Incident nor samjoutha express.


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## An Infidel

Italy arrests 2 Pakistanis for Mumbai attacks

ROME: Italian police on Saturday arrested two Pakistani men accused of providing logistical support for last year's terror attacks in Mumbai,officials said.

The two, father and son, were arrested in an early morning raid in Brescia, police in the northern Italian city said.

The suspects managed a money transfer agency and helped fund the Nov. 26 attacks, police said in a statement. The day before the attacks they transferred money to activate an Internet phone account that was used by the attackers and their accomplices, said Stefano Fonzi, the head of anti-terror police in Brescia.

Italian police began the probe in December after being alerted by the FBI that the money had been sent from Italy, Fonzi told The Associated Press.

The funds were transferred under the identity of another Pakistani man who had never been in Italy and was not involved in the alleged crimes, he said.

The two are accused of aiding and abetting international terrorism as well as illegal financial activity.

Transferring funds using the identity of other people was a common practice at the Brescia agency, Fonzi said in a telephone interview.

Two more Pakistanis were arrested in Saturday's raids for allegedly committing fraud and other crimes using the same system, but they were not linked to the Mumbai attacks. A fifth Pakistani man escaped arrest and was still being sought.

Under the same branch of the probe, 12 other people were flagged to prosecutors for possible investigation but were not arrested, Fonzi said.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Italy-arrests-2-Pakistanis-for-Mumbai-attacks/articleshow/5254877.cms

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## boxer_B

shhhahuuu said:


> India have no proofs for Pakistan's involvement in mumbai attacks and still blames Pakistan as per habbit.. haah... Indians have been blaming Pakistan for SAMJHOTA EXPRESS INCIDENT as well... what was the result... is MR PROHAT a Pakistani??? can sm1 answer it..



Laugh it all out kid! Pakistanis are getting arrested ALL over the world. As a matter of fact, Italy arrested your citizens not us. One of your canadian and american national are still in FBI custody.

Now all pieces of puzzle are coming together. We need to trace back who provided money to those Pakistani nationals and that will *bust* the myth of Non-state Actors.

Samjota express bombing by Purohit?? Are you still stuck up in medieval times? He was accused and all your media and likes of ziad hamid started jumping  but *with proofs* ,LeT and Sayeed are innocent. right?

By killing foreign nationals in mumbai with intent of harming Indian economy, (read) "they" have dug their own grave.


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## haawk

India have no proofs for Pakistan's involvement in mumbai attacks and still blames Pakistan as per habbit.. haah... Indians have been blaming Pakistan for SAMJHOTA EXPRESS INCIDENT as well... what was the result... is MR PROHAT a Pakistani??? can sm1 answer it.



HA HA .....then the two pakistani nationals were arrested for staling lolly pops from a kid or what?
On July 1, 2009 the United States Treasury and UNSC put sanctions on Pakistan-based terrorist organization, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba and named Arif Qasmani and three other terrorists as conspirators of the Samjauta blast . Prohit is guilty in Malegoan blast and not in samjota express. As per Indian IB, it is Arif Qasmani responsible for attack -Samjauta blast


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## Seadog1

Kakgeta said:


> Feed them to crocodiles, tigers, exhibit them or dissect them, do whatever you want we don't want them, we have had enough with terrorists.



Slice a large Hog in half,, insert them inside,, and bury them that way,, for eternity.


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## pakpower

Useless post no truth in it just a fake news.


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## Nihat

pakpower said:


> Useless post no truth in it just a fake news.





> *2 linked to Mumbai terror attacks arrested in ItalyNovember *21, 2009 5:38 a.m. EST
> 
> 
> 
> Rome, Italy (CNN) -- *Two Pakistani men were arrested in Italy on Saturday for providing logistical support to terrorists who carried out last year's deadly attacks in India, police said.*
> They were arrested in the northern Italian city of Brescia, said Stefano Fonzi, head of Italy's Division of General Investigations and Special Operations.
> 
> On November 25, 2008, the day before the attacks in Mumbai, the pair allegedly transferred $229 that was used to activate Internet phone lines used by the suspects.
> 
> Two others connected with the long-standing money transfer agency in Brescia were also arrested for other illegal activity, Fonzi told CNN. Police are looking for a fifth man.
> 
> Italian police started their investigation the following month after being alerted by Indian authorities and the FBI that funds had been transferred from Italy, Fonzi said.
> 
> Authorities suspected the agency after money was transferred under the Muslim name of a man who had never entered Italy, a police statement said.
> 
> The attacks on India's largest city lasted four days. The attackers targeted several sites in Mumbai, taking over several hotels and a Jewish center. The attacks left 160 people dead.
> 
> Indian police have said 10 Pakistanis were involved in the deadly assault, nine of whom were killed in the carnage.
> 
> The lone surviving suspect has linked the coordinated shooting and bombing incidents to the leader of the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, a militant group that is banned in India.



2 linked to Mumbai terror attacks arrested in Italy - CNN.com

This is a CNN source


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## pakpower

Nihat said:


> 2 linked to Mumbai terror attacks arrested in Italy - CNN.com
> 
> This is a CNN source



So what's the big deal if these are the two pakistanis but in paksitan case whole raw involved in every day bombings in pakistan.


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## An Infidel

pakpower said:


> So what's the big deal if these are the two pakistanis but in paksitan case whole raw involved in every day bombings in pakistan.




Statements repeated over and over again don't become a fact!!!

Moreover, can you backup your claims with links, preferably a neutral one??

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## Renegade

pakpower said:


> So what's the big deal if these are the two pakistanis but in paksitan case whole raw involved in every day bombings in pakistan.



internationally your credibility is zero. absolutely no one buys your argument.

Hoolbrooks & Hillary Clintons rebuff of pakistani claims is something that you would do well to educate yourself about.

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## ebungo

It is better to wake up to the reality that the Frankenstein monster Pakistan has created and nurtures is destroying the creator .the more you realize the better for the whole region ,most importantly the Pakistan itself .


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## xdrive

It's from the "india times" not trustworthy at all.


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## Spring Onion

An Infidel said:


> Statements repeated over and over again don't become a fact!!!
> 
> Moreover, can you backup your claims with links, preferably a neutral one??



Thats why we say please don't sent us the same dossier lacking authenticity again and again


----------



## zagahaga

EjazR said:


> I'm afraid you still don't understand WHY mumbai muslims are so against this. Up to 45-50 muslims were shot in cold blood along with people from 22 different countries around the world. Just one muslim family lost 14 members leaving only one 12 year old boy and his uncle alive. And you still think they are "suck ups"? Wake up and stop making such insulting statements .
> 
> In fact, why doesn't GoP accept these bodies and give them the burial and closure with their families. Isn't it haram for the GoP to deny this to their family members?



ok ok fine... but you indians are twisted ewwwwwww looking at the comment on top where weirddd


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## zagahaga

on sum indian channel i saw som brham eating sum dead guys bodie and worshipping it ? can any one tell me if it is true


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## Spring Onion

pakpower said:


> So what's the big deal if these are the two pakistanis but in paksitan case whole raw involved in every day bombings in pakistan.



The bhartyas are forgetting that it was Pakistan that had found out that Italy and some other foreign countries were used for transfer of money.

So we are not faking anything. Pakistan had probed it with all its sincerity.

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## ssheppard

Jana said:


> The bhartyas are forgetting that it was Pakistan that had found out that Italy and some other foreign countries were used for transfer of money.
> 
> So we are not faking anything. Pakistan had probed it with all its sincerity.



OK..a pat on the back of Pakistani agencies.....but does it help clear Pakistani hands ....off the terror they have been spreading all over the globe.


Its your creation.... you will have to clenz the world ...off it..

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## MilesTogo

we now need to include Italy in the list "axis of evil" as well


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## pagans

Here from BBC

BBC News - Mumbai attack suspects arrested by Italian police


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## pagans

arihant said:


> great idea. Can be done in state of meghalaya's forest.


are you from Meghalaya ?


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## haawk

or we can put the bodies with some pig skin so that the terrorists who believe to get what ever they are supposed to get for their "divine act of killing other people" will not get it because the pig skin will be "haram" and hence thier bodies will be stained and will not go to haven according to their own beliefs . 
besides this when publicly announced that all terrorists shot down or found in india will end up with the same fate will deter atleast a few of them from venturing into the country......


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## idea123

OMG...
This way soon pakistani will become synonym of Terrorist or a potential terrorist.


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## peace123

xdrive said:


> It's from the "india times" not trustworthy at all.


this news is right coz i'm here in brescia and can ensure u that they have been captured and the news is also on italian media.


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## Stealth

HHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA 

THATS Simple answer of all US Pro Anti PAkistani lobby Media (CNN, BBC) and Indian BS channels!

TIMES OF INDIA LOL! its not Times of India its Times of Joke!


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## Bullhead

Stealth said:


> HHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA
> 
> THATS Simple answer of all US Pro Anti PAkistani lobby Media (CNN, BBC) and Indian BS channels!
> 
> TIMES OF INDIA LOL! its not Times of India its Times of Joke!



yes ...yes......only pakistanis getting arrested all over the globe ...for planning ....funding....and conducting terrorist attacks...but everything is a propoganda........wonder if thsi so called operation against terrorist is a pakistani propoganda.....to get more money fron US......


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## AchtungSpitfire

Last I remember based on the pictures in the Mirror, the Indian special forces effed them up pretty good. I doubt they'd be of any use as cadavers back then let alone a year later. Did they ever trace the families of the rest of the tarts other than pissant that was captured?


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## Srinivas

This News is an important development as far as India is considered. Pakistan whether it believes the Indian dossier or not, one thing was sure the entire terror network operating against India is getting dismantled day by day. Hope to see these terrorist organizations will be dealt a final death blow one day.
It is so sad that there are several innocent civilians and security personal are dying in Pakistan as well but, the terror network or terror operatives operating any where should not be tolerated.


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## SMC

What you posted was a blog. And also watch your language describing people who view things different than you. They have reason to believe that and one blogger who views things differently doesn't make them wrong.


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## MilesTogo

I wish the bodies could be returned to their families. They are no more terrorists.


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## arihant

pagans said:


> are you from Meghalaya ?



not.  From Gujarat.

---------- Post added at 10:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------




MilesTogo said:


> I wish the bodies could be returned to their families. They are no more terrorists.



They are not taking it. This is why we are discussing what should be done.


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## arihant

zagahaga said:


> on sum indian channel i saw som brham eating sum dead guys bodie and worshipping it ? can any one tell me if it is true



Not true. Brahmans are Veg. He might be someone else.


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## Spitfighter

I agree with vsdoc, the bodies should be donated to medical schools if they can still be used, however, I don't understand how Pakistan can simply refuse to accept their own dead. Its an established fact that the terrorists were Pakistani, the least they can do is have some shame and pick up after their 'non state actors'.


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## brahmastra

zagahaga said:


> on sum indian channel i saw som brham eating sum dead guys bodie and worshipping it ? can any one tell me if it is true



brahmins(most of them) are vegetarian. the people you are talking about are 'AGHORI'. scary people and also scary rituals.you can google it for more info.


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## Seadog1

arihant said:


> not.  From Gujarat.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 10:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> They are not taking it. This is why we are discussing what should be done.



Thirty-five years after the arrival in the US of the first Indian motel keepers -- almost all with roots in Gujarat and most with the surname Patel -- *Gujaratis now own 60 per cent of budget properties.* By employing family members and doing most chores themselves, Indian motel keepers have been able to expand. 

Many are named Patel and they came from Gujarat.

When 'American-owned' means it is not Indian - dnaindia.com

No point,,, just interesting.

No-Tell Motels - TIME

Where else but the USA


----------



## An Infidel

Stealth said:


> HHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA


Didn't know that pakistanis get arrested for terrorism on foreign soil was a source of pleasure for you...good going


Stealth said:


> THATS Simple answer of all US Pro Anti PAkistani lobby Media (CNN, BBC) and Indian BS channels!


Simple !! well, i have a simple question for you, why do you think aforementioned news agencies are anti-pakistani, what do they have against you?


Stealth said:


> TIMES OF INDIA LOL! its not Times of India its Times of Joke!


I agree that TOI usually exaggerates but they do get their facts right!!


----------



## Roby

*News from Pakistani source Dawn*

Italy arrests two Pakistanis for Mumbai attacks

ROME: Police in Italys northern city of Brescia arrested two Pakistanis accused of logistical support for last year's terror attacks in Mumbai, Italy's ANSA news agency reported.

The two men arrested Saturday used a money transfer agency they managed to send funds for the attacks, ANSA cited police sources as saying.

The money was used to pay for an Internet phone account used by people in contact with the attackers.

The agency said the two were accused of aiding and abetting as well as illegal financial activity.  AP

DAWN.COM | World | Italy arrests two Pakistanis for Mumbai attacks

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## EagleEyes

Good news if true. Hopefully, it will expose the real culprits behind these attacks.

Its always nice to catch the culprits. Hoping that RAW gets exposed soon with the funding to the terrorists in Pakistan.

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## r3alist

> Moreover, can you backup your claims with links, preferably a neutral one??




where do i find this then?

mars?

venus?

jupiter?


----------



## An Infidel

r3alist said:


> where do i find this then?
> 
> mars?
> 
> venus?
> 
> jupiter?



isn't this ironic, your countryman makes a claim and i ask him to back it up with links and you ask me where to find it!!!
the onus is on him to provide the same..


----------



## mr42O

pagans said:


> Here from BBC
> 
> BBC News - Mumbai attack suspects arrested by Italian police



it only me or news saying suspected. noting is proved. When u have prove let us know until than stfu.

Where is mumbai proves ? Give ALL facts not only kasab kasab kasab


----------



## jupiter2007

Pakistan was never involve and any attack in India. India needs to stop blaming Pakistan for every single event that take place in India.

Bomby (Mumbai) attack was a "stage drama" by Indian RAW and Indian government unfortunately they didn't do the rehearsal, plan was weak and didn't execute correctly. The biggies democrazy with the best defense, best navy and best army and airforce and all the f* gadgats in the world they couldn't stop the terrorist. 
India biggest mistake was that Indian government didn't investigate it properly and let Indian media run wild with fictional stories about how Pakistani came to India to attack. 



jaunty said:


> *Italy arrests 2 Pakistanis for Mumbai attacks*​
> AP 21 November 2009, 01:43pm IST
> 
> ROME: Italian police on Saturday arrested two Pakistani men accused of providing logistical support for last year's terror attacks in Mumbai, officials said.
> 
> The two, father and son, were arrested in an early morning raid in Brescia, police in the northern Italian city said.
> 
> *The suspects managed a money transfer agency and helped fund the Nov. 26 attacks, police said in a statement. The day before the attacks they transferred money to activate an Internet phone account that was used by the attackers and their accomplices, said Stefano Fonzi, the head of anti-terror police in Brescia.
> *
> Italian police began the probe in December after being alerted by the FBI that the money had been sent from Italy, Fonzi told The Associated Press.
> 
> The funds were transferred under the identity of another Pakistani man who had never been in Italy and was not involved in the alleged crimes, he said.
> 
> The two are accused of aiding and abetting international terrorism as well as illegal financial activity.
> 
> Transferring funds using the identity of other people was a common practice at the Brescia agency, Fonzi said in a telephone interview.
> 
> *Two more Pakistanis were arrested in Saturday's raids for allegedly committing fraud and other crimes using the same system, but they were not linked to the Mumbai attacks. A fifth Pakistani man escaped arrest and was still being sought.*
> 
> Under the same branch of the probe, 12 other people were flagged to prosecutors for possible investigation but were not arrested, Fonzi said.
> 
> 
> Italy arrests 2 Pakistanis for Mumbai attacks - India - The Times of India


----------



## arihant

jupiter2007 said:


> Pakistan was never involve and any attack in India. India needs to stop blaming Pakistan for every single event that take place in India.
> 
> Bomby (Mumbai) attack was a "stage drama" by Indian RAW and Indian government unfortunately they didn't do the rehearsal, plan was weak and didn't execute correctly. The biggies democrazy with the best defense, best navy and best army and airforce and all the f* gadgats in the world they couldn't stop the terrorist.
> India biggest mistake was that Indian government didn't investigate it properly and let Indian media run wild with fictional stories about how Pakistani came to India to attack.



Sorry Ziad Hamid brother. I know for you truth cannot be digested.


----------



## hindesi

Seadog1 said:


> Thirty-five years after the arrival in the US of the first Indian motel keepers -- almost all with roots in Gujarat and most with the surname Patel -- *Gujaratis now own 60 per cent of budget properties.* By employing family members and doing most chores themselves, Indian motel keepers have been able to expand.
> 
> Many are named Patel and they came from Gujarat.
> 
> When 'American-owned' means it is not Indian - dnaindia.com
> 
> No point,,, just interesting.
> 
> No-Tell Motels - TIME
> 
> Where else but the USA



Says a lot about Indians being good in business eh  .. Also says a lot about adapting and mingling well with the culture they go in 
"To own an American icon--it means to value and preserve," says Manoj Patel, who was born in the U.S., adding that travelers should care about not who owns a property but how well it is run." From the time link.

They generate employment for locals (whites/"Americans") as well but to save cost they employ there relatives as well I don't see anything wrong in that.. It's just smart business cost cutting strategy  . And ooh btw if it is "Amercian owned" is it owned by a red Indian?  cause AFAIK everyone in US of A is immigrant at some point of time.. thts the beauty of America


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## Renegade

Jana said:


> Thats why we say please don't sent us the same dossier lacking authenticity again and again



dossier lacking authenticity!! maybe all the bombings in peshawar have disturbed you mentally to come to that conclusion.

last checked - your court was framing charges against Lakhvi and other terrorists based on the same dossier!!


----------



## Renegade

Jana said:


> The bhartyas are forgetting that it was Pakistan that had found out that Italy and some other foreign countries were used for transfer of money.
> 
> So we are not faking anything. Pakistan had probed it with all its sincerity.



sweetheart you goofed up again. these arrests where due to lead provided by the FBI, only thing that Pakistani investigators have been able to find on their own is the shop from which the dinghy motors and other small stuff was purchased from in Karachi. Bravo great police work - such great investigating capabilities really have us impressed here!! 

one year since the incident and the Pakistani courts are still framing charges and one judge has already quit under pressure. speakes volumes of your credibility.


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## mr42O

Watchin geo news and Singh saying Pakistan has done noting blabla. We want to do trade with Pakistan and live in peace. We cant change borders but can live peacefully. ( we cant change borders who are saying we will ? ppl use to say things which they think about) 

No facts just bullshit as always.


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## Spring Onion

hey we are ready to take Kasab so hand him over to us

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## ironman

Jana said:


> hey we are ready to take Kasab so hand him over to us



Whats the law of Pakistan if a Foreigner breached the law in its territory ? .. 

How about handing over entire RAW agents to India.. We will do the necessary.. I assure you.


----------



## Spring Onion

ironman said:


> Whats the law of Pakistan if a Foreigner breached the law in its territory ? ..
> 
> How about handing over entire RAW agents to India.. We will do the necessary.. I assure you.



ehhh but you guys are keen to see Pakistan take the mumbai attackers  


we claim only three. One is Kasb, One is dead and another is in our custody so you can hand over the two to us if you want us to take them hehehe

BTW we gave you Kashmir Singh that was enough after his confession no more


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## hembo

First of all, the title of the thread itself is misleading. Here's what the news actually reads:

*Pakistan has not done enough on the Mumbai terror attacks: Manmohan Singh*
November 22nd, 2009 SindhToday 

New Delhi, Nov.22 (ANI): Ahead of a key visit to the United States where he will be the first head of state or government to be received and feted by President Barack Obama since he took office in January 2009, Indian Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh has reiterated his unhappiness over Pakistan efforts in bringing the culprits of the 26/11 terror attack on Mumbai to book.

In an interview given to the Editor of Newsweek International, Fareed Zakaria, in CNN&#8217;s Global Public Square (GPS) program here ahead of his four-day trip to Washington, Dr. Singh said: &#8220;Pakistan has not done enough with regard to pursuing the perpetrators of the Mumbai terror attacks.&#8221;

Recalling his one-to-one interaction with Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani in the Egyptian seaside resort of Sharm-el-Sheikh in July this year, Dr. Singh said that when he raised the issue with Prime Minister Gilani, the latter had promised that his government would do the needful and take every possible legal step to bring the persons responsible for the incident to book.

Yet, he said, that almost a year after the attacks that claimed over 170 innocent lives, militants like *Masood Azhar and Hafeez Saeed, and other terrorists continued to move around freely on Pakistan soil*, apparently with the backing of the Pakistan Government.

What was even more lamentable was the fact that the Indian Government has provided every evidence demanded by Pakistan to substantiate the charge that the attack was commandeered from Pakistani soil, though seven dossiers collated by various investigative agencies, and each time, Islamabad has responded by saying that the evidence is not enough, faulty and unproven. Singh said.

&#8220;*An active Pakistan (Government) would not allow this (free movement of terrorists)*,&#8221; said Singh.

The Indian Prime Minister also expressed his concern and worry about the safety of Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear arsenal, and the possibility of it falling into wrong hands.

&#8220;We worry about these contingencies. But, we have been assured by the
United States, the Americans,&#8221; said Singh.

On the prevailing situation in Afghanistan, Dr. Singh told CNN&#8217;s GPS program that a decade ago, the emergence of the Taliban had created a problem in the South Asian and Central Asian region, and its disappearance post 9/11 was a blessing.

Asked how he saw Afghanistan emerging as nation from years and decades of war-ravaged ruin, he said that it was for Afghan President Hamid Karzai to take responsibility in his second term to harmonize and bringing together all elements in Afghanistan with the help of a purposeful government.

He welcomed the US initiative to work for a better, improved and democratic Afghanistan, but was very skeptical about Pakistan&#8217;s objections in that country.

&#8220;*Pakistan&#8217;s objectives in Afghanistan not necessarily in harmony with American objectives. Having said that, who am I to judge whether the Pakistan Government and the Pakistan Army is moving to remove the Afghan Taliban*,&#8221; said Singh.

Insofar as who was running Pakistan, Dr. Singh appeared quite emphatic when he stated that the Pakistan Army is running the country. 

&#8220;It is not clear if the President (Zardari) is in charge of the army,&#8221; Singh added. (ANI)


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## pkd




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## Atheist

Lol - not even one Pakistani has come in support to screw these assholes - Ohh forgot they are Pakistani's right... Thanks to some sensible people like Nadeem F Paracha I still cant go all guns against the people of Pakistan... Wake up guys - fight against terror is not fight for not only my survival - but for all of our survival


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## hindesi

Hey Bezerk

Can I ask why have you deleted my comments? 

I just gave my perception of how a Pakistanis mind works and I dinn say anything that Nadeem F. Pasha has not said in his blog.. I just quoted him

for other Pakistani friends please please please read this guy with an open mind he seems to have hit the bulls eye about Pakistani society as it stands as of today..

A nation of sleepwalkers &#8212; The Dawn Blog Blog Archive

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## hindesi

self delete


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## hindesi

mr42O said:


> it only me or news saying suspected. noting is proved. When u have prove let us know until than stfu.
> 
> Where is mumbai proves ? Give ALL facts not only kasab kasab kasab



AAH now now isn't this hypocrisy at its pinnacle huh .. you guys post a dumb video with a "militant" (can't even see his face) who is being interviewed saying stuff like India sends money and BS you believe him and start the blame game.. 

when a "living proof" Kasab mia is shown to you on international tele first you say he's not yours.. then sane journos in Pak get to his family and record his parents statements (before they disappear).. his family mysteriously disappears later on.. then you finally agree that Kasab is yours but not the others since they're not alive to say so .. what do you guys think the world is full of ****** ??? Listen get your heads out of your ***** and learn to face the reality guys.. no need to get all red faced here.. own up and accept there is problem somewhere in the fibre of Pak society that we see these kind of characters every now and then. 



> only kasab kasab kasab



why not Kasab if I may ask?? isn't he yours? isn't it proved he's yours and when he says all other were Pakistanis.. IS IT THAT HARD TO BELIEVE!!!??



> it only me or news saying suspected. noting is proved.[\quote]
> 
> ooh so the video of a guy saying India is sponsoring terrorists in baloch and nwfp is to be believed on face value of it .. is it?  If GOP has proof they shud give it na.. let me tell you one thing.. there is no proof atleast not as of now.. so till proven stop cribbing that India is behind what is happening wrong it Pak.. wake up!!!


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## hindesi

Atheist said:


> Lol - not even one Pakistani has come in support to screw these assholes - Ohh forgot they are Pakistani's right... Thanks to some sensible people like Nadeem F Paracha I still cant go all guns against the people of Pakistan... Wake up guys - fight against terror is not fight for not only my survival - but for all of our survival



And you know what the worst part is.. some Pakistanis on PDF realize what Nadeem is saying makes sense and is not BS.. but they prefer to keep quite!!! I urge them to step up and speak for the betterment of not only your society but wellness of sub-continent!!!


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## Coolyo

MUST WATCH for all Pakistanis! 

Indian backed terrorism must be countered and exposed! Spread the word!

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## Trisonics

Well orchestrated show just before the anniversary of 26/11. Doesn't matter how much you spread the word since this is what the world sees instead
*HBO: Terror in Mumbai. Premieres Thursday, November 19 at 8pm (ET/PT)
*


TERROR IN MUMBAI features exclusive audio tapes of the *intercepted phone calls between the young gunmen and their controllers in Pakistan*, and testimony from the sole surviving gunman.

The Mumbai attackers' targets included the city's main railway station, a popular cafe, two major hotels and a Jewish center. Leaving the city's iconic Taj Mahal Hotel in flames, and Mumbai's woefully unprepared police and security forces paralyzed with fear, *the attacks sent an ominous message to governments around the world. *

HBO: Terror in Mumbai

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## SMC

^^ If what they are suggesting is true, then the truth cannot hide forever from the world.

As far as the video goes, lots of interesting questions raised which aren't answered and have been ignored while lot of shocking revelations (such as Israel commandoes helping india in Kargil).

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## SMC

Nadeem is degrading anyone who doesn't agree with his views and so are you. That's why posts were deleted. Pakistanis have reason to believe things they believe as of now. The same old talk by indians and a blogger won't change that. It makes sense to you because you have your opinion and look at things from that way.


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## New Shivaji

Cheap propaganda video by pakistani Yellow ( shall I say Green) Journalism.

Who is talking - The great Zaid Hamid

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## SMC

That doesn't answer the questions dude.


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## StingRoy

How many followers actually believe in this CIA-Mossad-RAW conspiracy theory?... Maybe this Zaid guy needs to start his own political party... with the number of youtube hits on his rants on TV. He will lead to a complete destruction of Pakistan I am sure.

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## SMC

Still doesn't answer the questions raised.


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## brahmastra

ab ye log bol rahehe ki karkare ko sniper se mar diya gaya.

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## brahmastra

two pakistani arrested in Italy for financing the attack(or providing finance). Americans arrested headly-rana and its also highly possible of them to be involved in 26/11 mumbai attack. missing links are appearing and these guys talking BS.

P.S. - I disappointed with zaid hamid that he didn't reveal again that kasab is Amar singh and good to hear that CIA wale RAW ke kahene par chalte he.

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## StingRoy

Ahsan_R said:


> Still doesn't answer the questions raised.


There is no question to answer here... you expect us to answer if Mossad was involved in killing the Jewish people in Chabad House?... you expect us to answer if RAW was involved in killing the Indians... you expect us to answer if CIA was involved in killing the Americans in the attack... I am sorry to disappoint you dear.. you will not find answers to questions which never are. 
Why don't you ask Mr. Zaid to answer the questions himself... It seems he has answers to everything...

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## idune

dezi said:


> There is no question to answer here... ...



Yes you do; answer how many time india will killed its own citizens with false flag ops just so india can blame its enemy? This time around they got their zion friends along just so propaganda impact is maximum. These indians even blamed Bangladesh for that attack and offcourse they dont have any proof.

These indians are bunch of terror zealots, terrorize their own people to whip up anti Pakistan and Bangladesh hysteria.

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## gogbot

This is worse then FOX news and that says something.


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## SMC

dezi said:


> There is no question to answer here... you expect us to answer if Mossad was involved in killing the Jewish people in Chabad House?... you expect us to answer if RAW was involved in killing the Indians... you expect us to answer if CIA was involved in killing the Americans in the attack... I am sorry to disappoint you dear.. you will not find answers to questions which never are.
> Why don't you ask Mr. Zaid to answer the questions himself... It seems he has answers to everything...



You clearly didn't look at the video to see the questions they are raising.


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## Balance

Very old video. Already posted and discussed to death. Please go through other threads before you post.


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## NSG_BlackCats

For my India friends i have sumed up the analysis of Zaid Hamid( the great analyst from Pakistan) on Mumbai attack, from the above posted Video.

1.Mosad- CIA- RSS- RAW Nexus!!

2.Earlier he said Kasab is an Indian and his name is Amar Singh!! Now he is saying he was a Pakistani who was in Indian jail and it is really easy to plant evidence by exploiting him.

3.Mumbai attack further evidence of Anglo-USA-RSS-Mosad Nexus.

4.Col. Purohit wanted to have Indian govt. in exile in Israel. As per Zaid Hamid he said this during his trial in India.

5.Indian main stream is hijacked by RSS, bajrang Dal 

6.Indian nuclear weapons have already gone to the hands of Indian extremists. 

7.Col. Purohit was planning a coup to take over india in nexus with Israel.

8.There was specific American Intelligence that Taj Mahal Hotel will be attacked from sea on Oct 2008.

9.India did not share any evidence with Interpol.

10.Maharashtra Times the leading daily of Maharashtra have reported all the terrorist were talking in Marathi.

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## Halaku Khan

I watched first few minutes and then lost patience. They were talking about Samjhauta Exp. 

It is now very well-established that Samjhauta was done by LeT, not Purohit and Co. 

Purohit is in jail for 2008 Malegaon blast (there was one previous Malegaon attack in 2006 or 2007 which was done by SIMI).


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## pakpower

WebMaster said:


> Good news if true. Hopefully, it will expose the real culprits behind these attacks.
> 
> Its always nice to catch the culprits. Hoping that RAW gets exposed soon with the funding to the terrorists in Pakistan.



Sir you have reaised a very good point recently a lot's of Indian ammo different kind of discovered from Waziristan 5 trucks full of ammo and different weapons of indian origion discovered by Pak Army.

What more you indians wants to know that your govt is involved in spreading terrorism in Pakistan.


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## ssheppard

pakpower said:


> Sir you have reaised a very good point recently a lot's of Indian ammo different kind of discovered from Waziristan 5 trucks full of ammo and different weapons of indian origion discovered by Pak Army.
> 
> *What more you indians wants to know that your govt is involved in spreading terrorism in Pakistan*.



Please show the ammunition to rest of the world......


That should not be very difficult...since you have 5 truckloads.....

Just make videos....make copies....and ship it to the world....


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## arihant

NSG_BlackCats said:


> 10.Maharashtra Times the leading daily of Maharashtra have reported all the terrorist were talking in Marathi.



Good Point. Now I came to know why Shiv Sena and MNS were silent at the time of attack. Because they were Marathi Manse.


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## arihant

Halaku Khan said:


> I watched first few minutes and then lost patience. They were talking about Samjhauta Exp.
> 
> It is now very well-established that Samjhauta was done by LeT, not Purohit and Co.
> 
> Purohit is in jail for 2008 Malegaon blast (there was one previous Malegaon attack in 2006 or 2007 which was done by SIMI).



Pakistani are brain washed. How many time it has to be said that *Purohit is involved in Malegaon Blast and not in Samjota express. *


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## pakpower

ssheppard said:


> Please show the ammunition to rest of the world......
> 
> 
> That should not be very difficult...since you have 5 truckloads.....
> 
> Just make videos....make copies....and ship it to the world....



It doesn't matter if I provide them to you or not you still won't accept the reality than too. And that news was aired all the pakistani news channels with most of the international channels too if you are sensible enough you can check them on net.


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## ssheppard

pakpower said:


> It doesn't matter if I provide them to you or not you still won't accept the reality than too. And that news was aired all the pakistani news channels with most of the international channels too if you are sensible enough you can check them on net.



Well. then post some links if you have....just help people around the world like me...... No you rube videos please....have seen enough Zaid Hamid Type conspiracy theories..that make me Fart.....


Had India thought that there is no point showing evidence to the world.....the world would have been ignorant about Pakistan involvement in international terrorism......so your claim that its no point showing the proof to the world busts your o claim the you have any proof.... India had very little evidence....and it made Pakistani Government agree that Pakistani Citizens are involved in terrorist attacks on India......

Pakistan Claims..it has found truckloads of weapons...it would be an excellent proof in front of the world....the bottom line being" If you have the proof ....show the proof.....what are you waiting for Christmas...


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## SMC

So yet again they shifted the blame to Pakistan for Samjhauta express with false evidence. Not too long ago they were blaming Pakistan then hindu extremists and now Pakistan again. Attacking Pakistani nationals in india is the last thing LeT would do.

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## SMC

So as it turns out all this blaming shifting has been done by US treasury. On what grounds and for what reasons is unclear, because not too long ago it was established that hindu extremists were behind this. And what is US treasury doing dealing with terrorism? That's not one of their roles is it?

So to summarize it.

Before 1st July 2009, everyone, including indians, believe that it was hindu extremists behind Samjhauta express bombings.

On 1st July, a US treasury article shows up blaming LeT. Surprisingly, it has absolutely no input from indian government but rather seems to be independent. No proof or reasoning is given except this statement:

"al Qaida provided Qasmani with operatives to support the July 2006 train bombing in Mumbai, India, and the February 2007 Samjota Express bombing in Panipat, India."

All this time before it was said by indian government that it was hindu extremists. Now from no input from indians, it is said that it was LeT. Either US is confusing this with an another attack or saying this for another reason which is unclear.


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## pakpower

ssheppard said:


> Well. then post some links if you have....just help people around the world like me...... No you rube videos please....have seen enough Zaid Hamid Type conspiracy theories..that make me Fart.....
> 
> 
> Had India thought that there is no point showing evidence to the world.....the world would have been ignorant about Pakistan involvement in international terrorism......so your claim that its no point showing the proof to the world busts your o claim the you have any proof.... India had very little evidence....and it made Pakistani Government agree that Pakistani Citizens are involved in terrorist attacks on India......
> 
> Pakistan Claims..it has found truckloads of weapons...it would be an excellent proof in front of the world....the bottom line being" If you have the proof ....show the proof.....what are you waiting for Christmas...



Don't worry dude it will be revealed infront of the of whole world soon as PAK Govt says he will reveal all the proof's which they have with absolute athenticity to the world you just don't worry about that. Proof of indian govt spreading terrorism in Balochistan as well will be revealed.

Then tell me one more thing why 5 to 8 consulates in Afghanistan, what is their purpose in so many numbers in Afghanistan ?.


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## ssheppard

pakpower said:


> Don't worry dude it will be revealed infront of the of whole world soon as PAK Govt says he will reveal all the proof's which they have with absolute athenticity to the world you just don't worry about that. Proof of indian govt spreading terrorism in Balochistan as well will be revealed.
> 
> Then tell me one more thing why 5 to 8 consulates in Afghanistan, what is their purpose in so many numbers in Afghanistan ?.



Then stop throwing BS till the time you have the proof.....that you can show to the world.......


Lost the argument....got nothing to say...so ...throw anything ....Nice ploy....

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## SMC

What argument? You do realize that every evidence is not revealed to the world by governments? You do know that there are probably a lot of things that indian government is hiding from you? If you knew anything about the government system, you'd realize how stupid you sound. Pakistan is under US pressure to not reveal the proof. The existance of proof is confirmed by insider sources in ISI and army.

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## Halaku Khan

There may be about 5&#37; in there that could be true, but the problem is that it is mixed up with 95% lies. As Christine Fair recently put it (perhaps this is an unfair generalization) : "Pakistanis lie so much that nobody believes them even when they tell the truth".

Now, even when somebody is mostly lying one should be fair and try to see if there is any trace of truth. But it takes a lot of time and patience and often it is not worth it.

As I see it these videos are made mostly as propaganda for Pakistani domestic audience, and there is nothing useful that any outsider can get from them. Unless the outsider is interested in doing a psychological study on the nature of extremist propaganda.

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## ssheppard

Ahsan_R said:


> What argument? You do realize that every evidence is not revealed to the world by governments? You do know that there are probably a lot of things that indian government is hiding from you? If you knew anything about the government system, you'd realize how stupid you sound. Pakistan is under US pressure to not reveal the proof. The existance of proof is confirmed by insider sources in ISI and army.



Do you realize how stupid you sound ...when you shout on top of your voice...that India is involved.... don't ask how we know...but we just know.. they are involved....we have got proof...but we can't share it with the world.....but everyone has to believe ...that India is involved....because we are saying they they are involved....the proof we have is so confidential that even our ministers are not allowed to take a look into it even if they are sitting in the parliament....hoe can we allow the world to see the proof....if we don't allow ....our own people to see it.....

But India is involved....you have to believe... because....we are saying that they are Involved...

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## SMC

Ok no one is asking you to watch it. Don't watch it if you think they are BS or something. It is not made for any international audience.

Christine Fair also said that india is supporting terrorism in Pakistan so if you agree with her on that you should also consider what else she said.


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## SMC

I am actually not saying that you have to believe. I couldn't care less if you believe or no. I am saying that *I* have reason to believe in indian involvement. Anyone sounding stupid is you with 14-year old like posts. You do not seem to know how international politics and public relations work. Another armchair expert.

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## ssheppard

Ahsan_R said:


> You do not seem to know how international politics and public relations work. Another armchair expert.



International politics is works on a simple logic......nail your enemy at the first instance......expose his evil deeds in front of the entire world as soon as you have the first valid proof of his involvement.....is it too difficult .....


India had proof..and it went on with an excellent diplomatic offensive against Pakistan ...and secluded and cornered Pakistan using whatever proof it had.....and the world got convinced ...and look at your country..now....your govt.. has to justify each and every move..it makes even inside your own country..... 





Ahsan_R said:


> I am actually not saying that you have to believe. I couldn't care less if you believe or no. I am saying that *I* have reason to believe in indian involvement.



Same holds good for Pakistanis if they don't want to believe that Pakistan is a terrorist breeding ground....the whole world is convinced and is working double shift to make Pakistanis work ten times more harder to get visas into their nations....

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## pakpower

Ahsan_R said:


> I am actually not saying that you have to believe. I couldn't care less if you believe or no. I am saying that *I* have reason to believe in indian involvement. Anyone sounding stupid is you with 14-year old like posts. You do not seem to know how international politics and public relations work. Another armchair expert.



Great work brother love your comments.


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## pakpower

ssheppard said:


> Then stop throwing BS till the time you have the proof.....that you can show to the world.......
> 
> 
> Lost the argument....got nothing to say...so ...throw anything ....Nice ploy....



You didn't answer to my question yet which I asked you if u think that you know your govt well then what the hell is going on in Afghanistan then why all of a sudden indian is more interested in afghanistan kaya yehh unn kii khaalaa kaa ghar hai joo unhoon nain 5 to 8 consulates banna layaee hain ?.

Then tell me one more thing why 5 to 8 consulates in Afghanistan, what is their purpose in so many numbers in Afghanistan ?.

Give me the answer if you have n dont give me your old indian style crying and trolling answers.


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## Foster

pakpower said:


> You didn't answer to my question yet which *I asked you if u think that you know your govt well then what the hell is going on in Afghanistan then why all of a sudden indian is more interested in afghanistan kaya yehh unn kii khaalaa kaa ghar hai joo unhoon nain 5 to 8 consulates banna layaee hain ?.*
> 
> Then tell me one more thing why 5 to 8 consulates in Afghanistan, what is their purpose in so many numbers in Afghanistan ?.
> 
> Give me the answer if you have n dont give me your old indian style crying and trolling answers.



Same as China doing in pakistan....helping

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## ssheppard

pakpower said:


> You didn't answer to my question yet which I asked you if u think that you know your govt well then what the hell is going on in Afghanistan then why all of a sudden indian is more interested in afghanistan kaya yehh unn kii khaalaa kaa ghar hai joo unhoon nain 5 to 8 consulates banna layaee hain ?.
> 
> Then tell me one more thing why 5 to 8 consulates in Afghanistan, what is their purpose in so many numbers in Afghanistan ?.
> 
> Give me the answer if you have n dont give me your old indian style crying and trolling answers.



India consulates may be doing anything.....ask your Pakistan government to speak to the world and pressurize India to reduce the number of consulates...


Pakistan has no right to ask Afghanistan and India, how should they conduct their relationships....

India is interested in Afghanistan....just the way any Nation would be interested in International politics.......Pakistan has had its share in Afghanistan...your government messed it up....Now its India's time to build up a relationship with Afghanistan.....and build on it.....


Pakistan has failed in Afghanistan...and India has enough opportunity and right to become a key player in Afghanistan.....


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## ek_indian

pakpower said:


> You didn't answer to my question yet which I asked you if u think that you know your govt well then what the hell is going on in Afghanistan then why all of a sudden indian is more interested in afghanistan kaya yehh unn kii khaalaa kaa ghar hai joo unhoon nain 5 to 8 consulates banna layaee hain ?



Is it related to Italy??



pakpower said:


> Then tell me one more thing why 5 to 8 consulates in Afghanistan, what is their purpose in so many numbers in Afghanistan ?.



Offtopic rant again. Nothing to do with thread. Here is something for you.

Foreign Embassies and Consulates in Afghanistan

Interestingly, India has same number of consulates as Pakistan.

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## ssheppard

ek_indian said:


> Foreign Embassies and Consulates in Afghanistan
> 
> Interestingly, India has same number of consulated as Pakistan.



But Pakistanis are more woried about Number of Consultates in Afghanistan...rather than Number of Indian Consultates in their own country....

Even Pakistan has same number of consulates in Afghanistan......in the same cities...but they simply fail to see that......or may be they don't have faith on their own diplomats.....so they shout...

*Pakistan*
Pakistani Embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan
Pakistani Consulate in Herat, Afghanistan
Pakistani Consulate in Jalalabad, Afghanistan
Pakistani Consulate in Kandhar, Afghanistan
Pakistani Consulate in Mazar-i-Sharif, Afghanistan



*India*
Indian Embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan
Indian Consulate in Herat, Afghanistan
Indian Consulate in Jalalabad, Afghanistan
Indian Consulate in Kandhar, Afghanistan
Indian Consulate in Mazar-e-Sharif, Afghanistan

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## pakpower

ssheppard said:


> India consulates may be doing anything.....ask your Pakistan government to speak to the world and pressurize India to reduce the number of consulates...
> 
> 
> Pakistan has no right to ask Afghanistan and India, how should they conduct their relationships....
> 
> India is interested in Afghanistan....just the way any Nation would be interested in International politics.......Pakistan has had its share in Afghanistan...your government messed it up....Now its India's time to build up a relationship with Afghanistan.....and build on it.....
> 
> 
> Pakistan has failed in Afghanistan...and India has enough opportunity and right to become a key player in Afghanistan.....



Indians have no intention to help Afghanistan they just want to destroy Pakistan by any means necessary as they are doing for the last 63 years that's why they have that many consulates you guys are not worthy of talking with me you have no ethics at all I am waisting my time by talking with you.


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## ssheppard

pakpower said:


> Indians have no intention to help Afghanistan they just want to destroy Pakistan by any means necessary as they are doing for the last 63 years that's why they have that many consulates you guys are not worthy of talking with me you have no ethics at all I am waisting my time by talking with you.



Why does India need to do anything to destroy Pakistan....Pakistanis across the globe are doing a good job at it.....

The have maligned Pakistan Reputation..by Getting involved in terrorist activities......and getting arrested by authorities of different countries.....the latest cases in America and Italy are the latest in the list.

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## ek_indian

pakpower said:


> Indians have no intention to help Afghanistan they just want to destroy Pakistan by any means necessary as they are doing for the last 63 years that's why they have that many consulates



How do you know India is not helping Afghanistan. It is a matter between India and Afghanistan. 
And regarding India destroying Pakistan....well, all I can say that Pakistan has not provided any evidences in this regard apart from lip service. But we have "bleed-India-thru-1000-cuts" theory. Anyways offtpoic.



pakpower said:


> you guys are not worthy of talking with me you have no ethics at all I am waisting my time by talking with you.



Thank you. But seems you are out of arguements.

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## vkurian

arihant said:


> Pakistani are brain washed. How many time it has to be said that *Purohit is involved in Malegaon Blast and not in Samjota express. *



Well friend that is the purpose of the Great Zaid Hamid show. Faced with enormous problems at home some of the Pakistani friends have started questioning the state policies of the past and present.

That is where Mr. Analyst Hamid steps in to keep the masses in state of anti India hatred and self denial. Its high time Pakistani friends start ignoring this story teller as he doesnt have a shred of evidence to what he says.

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## Halaku Khan

Ahsan_R said:


> Christine Fair also said that india is supporting terrorism in Pakistan so if you agree with her on that you should also consider what else she said.



She did not say that. See, that is how credibility is damaged, by such loose statements.


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## idune

indians will caught red handed stealing yet they will claim its was someone else doing it. That's how big liar and deceivers they are.


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## vsdoc

pakpower said:


> why all of a sudden indian is more interested in afghanistan kaya yehh unn kii khaalaa kaa ghar hai joo unhoon nain 5 to 8 consulates banna layaee hain ?.



Pakistan kaun hota hai yeh poochne ke liye?

Kya Afghanistan uski bua ka ghar hai?

As far as consulates go, pakistan has as many if not more in Afghanistan. 

Why?

Especially since Pakistan and Afghanistan have had hostile relations for decades, with pakistan actively fomenting trouble in Afghanistan, as it does with India on its other side.

Especially since Pakistan has nothing to offer Afghanistan, since it itself is getting by on alms from others.

At the end of the day, woh Afghanistan ka ghar hai, aapki hukumat wahan nahin chalti hai. 

Woh doosri baat hai ki aapki hukumat aapke apne des mein bhi nahin chalti hai.

Cheers, Doc

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## FlyingEagle

Why Indian govt always blame Pakistan?? Just tell me what benifit Pakistan gained from this???????? All the contentions are at the same place. No progress is done. On the basis of Mumbai Attacks is Pakistan sucessful in solving the Kashmir problem or the water problem or is sucessfully desolve the Indian govt to bring political instability or so many other problems????

Just open ur eyes and analyse who is benifited from this? In 9/11 they blame Muslims for this. Just google on it and u will fine so many analysis abt 9/11. If Indian govt would have the same strategy then after some years people will blame this govt as Americans are blaming American govt for 9/11.


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## ssheppard

FlyingEagle said:


> Just open ur eyes and analyse who is benifited from this? In 9/11 they blame Muslims for this. Just google on it and u will fine so many analysis abt 9/11. If Indian govt would have the same strategy then after some years people will blame this govt as Americans are blaming American govt for 9/11.



Pakistanis love to blame everyone else but themselves and their governments policies for getting the boot...all over the world.........

Slowly the whole world is standing up against Pakistan Bread terrorists and terrorism supporters.......

Arrests in America and Italy are the latest examples......but no sir.....its a conspiracy ...to prove that Pakistan is criminal....

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## Foster

FlyingEagle said:


> Why Indian govt always blame Pakistan?? *Just tell me what benifit Pakistan gained from this*???????? All the contentions are at the same place. No progress is done. On the basis of Mumbai Attacks is Pakistan sucessful in solving the Kashmir problem or the water problem or is sucessfully desolve the Indian govt to bring political instability or so many other problems????
> 
> Just open ur eyes and analyse who is benifited from this? In 9/11 they blame Muslims for this. Just google on it and u will fine so many analysis abt 9/11. If Indian govt would have the same strategy then after some years people will blame this govt as Americans are blaming American govt for 9/11.



Who ever is running pak...thinks that by destabilizing ... will force India to come on table for dialog and its very easy to attack on those countries..who is destabilize

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## pakpower

vsdoc said:


> Woh doosri baat hai ki aapki hukumat aapke apne des mein bhi nahin chalti hai.



Mind your language and by the way how you assume this shitty thing I have a doubt does really your mind works or not ?.


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## hindesi

Ahsan_R said:


> *Nadeem is degrading anyone who doesn't agree with his views and so are you. That's why posts were deleted. * Pakistanis have reason to believe things they believe as of now. The same old talk by indians and a blogger won't change that. * It makes sense to you because you have your opinion and look at things from that way*.



Isn't that your personal opinion, this kind of censorship is not the answer. You have to counter argue and put points against a statement.

It not only makes sense to me but many of your fellow Pakistanis as well read the comments made by them if you don't trust/believe Indians. And for godsakes try looking at things from their and our way as well it just might make a little sense to you and your fellow Admins here.

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## ssheppard

pakpower said:


> Mind your language and by the way how you assume this shitty thing I have a doubt does really your mind works or not ?.



You need to mind your language . 

Post reported.

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## pakpower

ssheppard said:


> You need to mind your language .
> 
> Post reported.



You are the master of trolling and flamming any thread it's you who do all the time.


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## ssheppard

pakpower said:


> You are the master of trolling and flamming any thread it's you who do all the time.



I don't indulge in personal attacks. Read your post again. and tell e who's ranting.

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## adatta

any pakistani friend would like to volunteer to explain the concept given by zaid sahaab about Amar Singh popularly known as ajmal kasab in India and secretly in pakistan? i don't understand when india and pakistan will come out of the clutch of people like zaid hamid,bal thakre etc and stop chewing their venom...the day is not far when there will be a real ISI-RSS nexus....

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## pakpower

ssheppard said:


> I don't indulge in personal attacks. Read your post again. and tell e who's ranting.


Ohh please stop making excuses now.


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## ssheppard

pakpower said:


> Ohh please stop making excuses now.



Please provide a link to the posts in which I have launched a personal attack on anyone.

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## hindesi

idune said:


> Yes you do; answer how many time india will killed its own citizens with false flag ops just so india can blame its enemy? This time around they got their zion friends along just so propaganda impact is maximum. These indians even blamed Bangladesh for that attack and offcourse they dont have any proof.
> 
> These indians are bunch of terror zealots, terrorize their own people to whip up anti Pakistan and Bangladesh hysteria.




yaas isse koi Bangali men ek aad sawal poocho dekho ki ye asli men Bangali hai ki nahi.. I find it hard to believe that people of Bangladesh have so much posion for Indians.. no way this guy is Bangali dada!!

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## vsdoc

pakpower said:


> Mind your language and by the way how you assume this shitty thing I have a doubt does really your mind works or not ?.



Isme mind my language ki kya baat hai bhai?

Kuch galat kaha maine?

Most (if not all) Pakistanis feel their hukumat is a joke.

The Taliban definitely do.

As do vast tracts of Pakistan - SWAT, NWFP, FATA, Waziristan, Balochistan.

What do you expect ..... that granting Autonomy would mollify them and magically make them pro-hukumat? 

Apna desh sambhala nahin jata, aur doosron ke desh mein naak ghusane ka shauk hai.

Yeh duniya bol rahi hai mere dost.

Suno. 

Samjho. 

Aankhen kholo.

Kuch karo.

Apna desh bachao.

Afghanistan US aur hum sambhaal lenge. 

Cheers, Doc

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## hindesi

_*A nation of sleepwalkers
Posted by Nadeem F. Paracha in Featured Articles, Pakistan, Politics on 11 12th, 2009*_

The day after the terrible terrorist attack at Islamabad&#8217;s Islamic University that took the lives of eight innocent students, certain TV news channels ran a footage of a dozen or so angered students of the university pelting stones. The first question that popped up in my mind after watching the spectacle was, what on earth were these understandably enraged young men throwing their stones at?

So I waited for the TV cameras to pan towards the direction where the stones were landing. But that did not happen. It seemed as if the students were pelting stones just for the heck of it.

So I called a fellow journalist friend who was covering the story for a local TV channel and asked him about the protest. He told me the students were pelting stones at a handful of cops. Now, why in God&#8217;s good name would one throw stones at cops after being attacked by demented men who call themselves the Taliban?

The very next day another protest took place outside the attacked University in which the students, both male and female, were holding banners that said: &#8216;Kerry-Lugar Bill namanzoor!&#8217; (Kerry-Lugar Bill Not Acceptable).

I could barely stop myself from bursting into a short sharp fit of manic laughter. It was unbelievable. Or was it, really?

Here we have a university that was attacked by a psychotic suicide bomber who slaughtered and injured dozens of students so he could get his share of hooris in Paradise. The attack was then proudly owned by the Tekrik-e-Taliban Pakistan. And in its wake, we saw enraged students protesting against the Kerry-Lugar act? What a response!

What did the Kerry-Lugar act have to do with the suicide attack? Wasn&#8217;t this remarkably idiotic &#8216;protest rally&#8217; by the students actually an insult to those who were so mercilessly slaughtered by holy barbarians?

*But then, some would suggest that in a society like Pakistan, such idiosyncrasies should be swallowed as a norm. And I agree. What else can one expect from a society living in a curiously delusional state of denial, gleefully mistaking it as &#8216;patriotism&#8217; and &#8216;concern.&#8217; It seems no amount of proof will ever be enough to dent Pakistanis&#8217; resolve to defend the unsubstantiated, wild theories that they so dearly hold in their rapidly shrinking heads.*

*Take for instance the recent case of a famous TV anchorman who visited a devastated area in Peshawar that was bombed by a remote-controlled car bomb. He talked to about 10 people at the scene. More than half of the folks interviewed spouted out those squarely unproven and thoroughly clich&#233;d tirades about RAW/CIA/Mossad being the &#8216;real perpetrators&#8217; and that &#8216;no Muslim is capable of inflicting such acts of barbarity.&#8217;*

*A friend of mine who was also watching this hapless exhibition of the usual top-of-mind nonsense suddenly announced that he wanted to jump in, hold these men by the arms, and shake them violently so they could be &#8216;awoken from their dreadful sleepwalking state.&#8217;*

*Pakistanis routinely continue to deny the fact that the monsters who are behind all the faithful barbarism that is cutting this country into bits are the mutant product of what our governments, military, intelligence agencies, and society as a whole have been up to in the past 30 years or so.*

Well, this is exactly what happens to a society that responds so enthusiastically to all the major symptoms of fascist thought. Symptoms such as powerful and continuing nationalism; disdain for the recognition of human rights; identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause; supremacy of the military; obsession with national security; the intertwining of religion and government; disdain for intellectuals and the arts; an obsession with crime and punishment, etc.

Have not the bulk of Pakistanis willingly allowed themselves to be captured in all the macho and paranoid trappings of the above-mentioned symptoms of collective psychosis. It clearly smacks of a society that has been ripening and readying itself for an all-round fascist scenario.

This is the scenario some among us are really talking about when they speak of &#8216;imposing the system of the Khulfa Rashideen&#8217; or shariah, or whatever profound buzzwords adopted to explain Pakistan&#8217;s march towards a wonderful society of equality and justice? Words that mean absolutely nothing, or systems and theories either based on ancient musings of tribal societies or on glorified myths of bravado.

I felt bad for the few bystanders at that Peshawar bombing site who kept contradicting their more gung-ho contemporaries by reminding them that for months the shopkeepers where receiving threatening letters from the Taliban warning them that they should stop selling products for women and ban the entry of women in the area.

*One shop-owner who said he lost more than millions of rupees worth of goods in the blast was slightly taken aback when the anchor asked him who he thought was behind the bomb attack. For a few seconds he looked curiously at the anchor&#8217;s face, as if wondering why would a major TV news channel be asking a question whose answer was so obvious. &#8216;What do you mean, who was responsible?&#8217; he asked. &#8216;The Taliban, of course!&#8217;*

Fasi Zaka wrote a scathing piece on the floozy response of some students who chanted slogans against the Kerry-Lugar Bill outside the freshly bombed Islamic University. He was battered with hate mail, even from those who did agree with him that it were the Taliban who bombed the unfortunate university. But these folks turned out to be even worse than the deniers. They are apologists of all the mayhem that takes place in the name of Islam in this country.

Every time the barbarians set themselves off taking innocent men, women, and children with them, these apologists suddenly emerge to write letters to newspapers and try to dominate internet forums explaining the intricate &#8216;socio-economic problems&#8217; that are turning men into terrorists. Or worse &#8211; *as is expected from reactionary news reporters like Ansar Abbasi &#8211; they will start giving details about the infidel targets that the terrorists were really after at the place of the attack.*

Zaka told me that he got letters suggesting that the Taliban attacked the canteen of the Islamic University because &#8216;women students were not behaving and dressing according to Islam.&#8217; The state under Ziaul Haq had the Hudood Ordinance for such &#8216;loose women,&#8217; but now the Taliban have bombs for them. And mind you, those who were trying to justify the bombing in this respect at the University were &#8216;educated&#8217; young men and even women.

Recently, we also heard about a hijab-clad female student at the prestigious and &#8216;liberal&#8217; Lahore University of Management Sciences, who bagged her 15 minutes of fame by capturing images through her mobile phone of students indulging in &#8216;immoral activities&#8217; on campus. Of course, the same lady&#8217;s &#8216;concern&#8217; and righteousness ends at becoming a self-appointed paparazzi for the reactionaries, whereas it was young women (in hijabs) and men with beards who died so senselessly at the Islamabad Islamic University campus.

Pathetic, indeed.

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## hindesi

idune said:


> indians will caught red handed stealing yet they will claim its was someone else doing it. That's how big liar and deceivers they are.



dada.. why so frustrated??

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## pakpower

vsdoc said:


> Isme mind my language ki kya baat hai bhai?
> 
> Kuch galat kaha maine?
> 
> Most (if not all) Pakistanis feel their hukumat is a joke.
> 
> The Taliban definitely do.
> 
> As do vast tracts of Pakistan - SWAT, NWFP, FAT, Waziristan, Balochistan.
> 
> What do you expect ..... that granting Autonomy would mollify them and magically make them pro-hukumat?
> 
> Apna desh sambhala nahin jata, aur doosron ke desh mein naak ghusane ka shauk hai.
> 
> Yeh duniya bol rahi hai mere dost.
> 
> Suno.
> 
> Samjho.
> 
> Aankh kholo.
> 
> Kuch karo.
> 
> Cheers, Doc


Acha yaar tumm jeetaee orr main haara abb kush hoo.


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## adatta

@idune
dada don't mind but i think you have forgotten you country's history....the flag that you are posting under your name would have been different if we didn't intervene....beimani korle cholbe?

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## TalibanSwatter

entertaining video - reminds me of the nonsensical tabloid reporting of FOX News...lol

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## Foster

He is not bangladeshi...either he is from pakistan..or ISI agent

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## hindesi

TalibanSwatter said:


> entertaining video - reminds me of the nonsensical tabloid reporting of FOX News...lol



Thank God there are people like you in Pakistan!!! I find total bozos frm Pakistan in here most of the times  .. no offense meant brother.


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## eastwatch

FlyingEagle said:


> Why Indian govt always blame Pakistan?? Just tell me what benifit Pakistan gained from this???????? All the contentions are at the same place. No progress is done. On the basis of Mumbai Attacks is Pakistan sucessful in solving the Kashmir problem or the water problem or is sucessfully desolve the Indian govt to bring political instability or so many other problems????
> 
> Just open ur eyes and analyse who is benifited from this? In 9/11 they blame Muslims for this. Just google on it and u will fine so many analysis abt 9/11. If Indian govt would have the same strategy then after some years people will blame this govt as Americans are blaming American govt for 9/11.


You must forgive GoI for putting the blame on Pakistan for Bombay carnage. Because that is how it saves its necks from the Indian public. But, in the process of this blaming game, the RAW story writer could not quite successfully close the gap between the reality and what he wants to prove.

A 1000km PLEASURE trip through the sea in a rickety boat, a sudden encounter with a fishing boat, killing its passengers and taking one as a guide to take them to the shore and then to the Bombay beach. Then, rifles in hands they have spread in separate groups without being noticed by anyone. Its too easy a plot to make a good story. 

How come the Pakistani terrorists came without a radar and a map. Even they did not know how to locate Bombay, but they were lucky to meet that fishing boat. Check the photos, they all had pink RAKHI in their arms, they do not necessarily look Punjabis. They look more from Indian South. 

To make RAW story more real, the RAW story writer should have read minutely the stories of Arabian Nights, specially the voyages of Sindbad. By the way, what is the conclusion of GoI about the killing of Karkare in the Bombay episode. Among millions of people, I find it strange that the Pakistani terrorists have found out Karkare riding with a colleague in a taxi. By the way, has Mrs. Karkare finally received the offer of monetary compensation from the GoI?

By all indications, Karkare was surely the main target and all others were collateral damages, a necessary phenomenon required to keep people blind. All the time to time Indian statements and Pakistani responses regarding the Pakistani responsibility are some kind of mutually agreed (or understood) drama to fool the people.

Hindu terrorists are responsible for the carnage and their main target was certainly to eliminate the Police Investigating Officer Karkare. Without killing him, the Indian military establishment would have been exposed as the supplier of guns and training to the Hindu JIHADIS.


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## RobbieS

eastwatch said:


> You must forgive GoI for putting the blame on Pakistan for Bombay carnage. Because that is how it saves its necks from the Indian public. But, in the process of this blaming game, the RAW story writer could not quite successfully close the gap between the reality and what he wants to prove.
> 
> 1000km PLEASURE trip through the sea in a rickety boat, a sudden encounter with a fishing boat, killing its passangers and taking one as a guide to take them to the shore and then to the Bombay beach. Then, rifles in hands they have spread in separate groups without being noticed by anyone.
> 
> It seems, the Pakistani terrorists came without a radar and a map. Even they did not know how to locate Bombay, but they were lucky to meet that fishing boat. They all had pink RAKHI in their arms, they do not necessarily look Punjabis. They look more from Indian South.
> 
> To make RAW story more real, the RAW writer should have read minutely the stories of Arabian Nights, specially the voyages of Sindbad By the way, what is the conclusion of GoI about the killing of Karkare in the Bombay episode. Among millions of people, I find it strange that the Pakistani terrorists have found out Karkare riding with a colleague in a taxi.
> 
> He was surely the main target and all others were collateral damages, a necessary phenomenon required to keep people blind. All those time to time Indian statements and Pakistani responses regarding the Pakistani responsibility are some kind of mutually agreed drama to fool the people.
> 
> Hindu terrorists are responsible for the carnage and their main target was certainly to eliminate the Police Investigating Officer Karkare. Without killing him, the Indian military establishment would have been exposed as the supplier of guns and training to the Hindu JIHADIS.



Yeah! And after killing Karkare and Salskar, those Hindu RAW terrorists went to Taj and Oberoi to kill more of their brethren. Of course they did all this to malign Pakistan.

Dude you seriously need to get yourself a mental check-up.

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## ek_indian

eastwatch said:


> You must forgive GoI for putting the blame on Pakistan for Bombay carnage. Because that is how it saves its necks from the Indian public. But, in the process of this blaming game, the RAW story writer could not quite successfully close the gap between the reality and what he wants to prove.
> 
> 1000km PLEASURE trip through the sea in a rickety boat, a sudden encounter with a fishing boat, killing its passangers and taking one as a guide to take them to the shore and then to the Bombay beach. Then, rifles in hands they have spread in separate groups without being noticed by anyone.
> 
> It seems, the Pakistani terrorists came without a radar and a map. Even they did not know how to locate Bombay, but they were lucky to meet that fishing boat. They all had pink RAKHI in their arms, they do not necessarily look Punjabis. They look more from Indian South.
> 
> To make RAW story more real, the RAW writer should have read minutely the stories of Arabian Nights, specially the voyages of Sindbad By the way, what is the conclusion of GoI about the killing of Karkare in the Bombay episode. Among millions of people, I find it strange that the Pakistani terrorists have found out Karkare riding with a colleague in a taxi.
> 
> He was surely the main target and all others were collateral damages, a necessary phenomenon required to keep people blind. All those time to time Indian statements and Pakistani responses regarding the Pakistani responsibility are some kind of mutually agreed drama to fool the people.
> 
> Hindu terrorists are responsible for the carnage and their main target was certainly to eliminate the Police Investigating Officer Karkare. Without killing him, the Indian military establishment would have been exposed as the supplier of guns and training to the Hindu JIHADIS.



Wake up dear. Enough Ranting.

(1) Pakistan has already admitted that the lone survivor's is a Pakistani. So seems "omnipotent" RAW is successful.

Al Jazeera English - CENTRAL/S. ASIA - Pakistan admits Mumbai attack link

(2) There is a difference between saying it AK** or just "rifles".

(3) I assume you are aware of Global Positioning System (GPS).

(4) Please explain what it means by Kasab is not Punjabi looking or rather having South Indian look.

Response for all your quesries (rant) is, GoP has already accepted him as its own national.

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## Saint N sinnerr

*ZAID HAMID - ENTERTAINMENT UNLIMITED*


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## eastwatch

RobbieS said:


> Yeah! And after killing Karkare and Salskar, those Hindu RAW terrorists went to Taj and Oberoi to kill more of their brethren. Of course they did all this to malign Pakistan.
> 
> Dude you seriously need to get yourself a mental check-up.



Please check the possibility written below. When the attack was in the planning stage, the HINDU terrorists were guaranted a safe pagssage after the killing of Karkare. But, this, either by design or under the circumstances, did not materialize. So, they took shelter in Taj Mahal Hotel. 

By another plot, the Hindu JIHADIS were cornered in the hotel, and were allowed enough time to kill the passersby. This only proved the involvement of muslim Pakistanis, who are so willing to shed hindu blood. But, in reality it was a set up to blind the eyes of Indians.

It seems the Indians are not here to like a post mortem of the events in Bombay. Then, they should live in their make believe world. What is there in a nationality. I am here without any bias against India.


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## Foster

eastwatch said:


> You must forgive GoI for putting the blame on Pakistan for Bombay carnage. Because that is how it saves its necks from the Indian public. But, in the process of this blaming game, the RAW story writer could not quite successfully close the gap between the reality and what he wants to prove.
> 
> A 1000km PLEASURE trip through the sea in a rickety boat, a sudden encounter with a fishing boat, killing its passengers and taking one as a guide to take them to the shore and then to the Bombay beach. Then, rifles in hands they have spread in separate groups without being noticed by anyone. Its too easy a plot to make a good story.
> 
> How come the Pakistani terrorists came without a radar and a map. Even they did not know how to locate Bombay, but they were lucky to meet that fishing boat. Check the photos, they all had pink RAKHI in their arms, they do not necessarily look Punjabis. They look more from Indian South.
> 
> To make RAW story more real, the RAW story writer should have read minutely the stories of Arabian Nights, specially the voyages of Sindbad. By the way, what is the conclusion of GoI about the killing of Karkare in the Bombay episode. Among millions of people, I find it strange that the Pakistani terrorists have found out Karkare riding with a colleague in a taxi. By the way, has Mrs. Karkare finally received the offer of monetary compensation from the GoI?
> 
> By all indications, Karkare was surely the main target and all others were collateral damages, a necessary phenomenon required to keep people blind. All the time to time Indian statements and Pakistani responses regarding the Pakistani responsibility are some kind of mutually agreed (or understood) drama to fool the people.
> 
> Hindu terrorists are responsible for the carnage and their main target was certainly to eliminate the Police Investigating Officer Karkare. Without killing him, the Indian military establishment would have been exposed as the supplier of guns and training to the Hindu JIHADIS.



What kind of crap it is?i think the person who had written this really freaks out of his mind...he realyy need some special treatment...
I hope he not from BD...I dont think this kind of analyst lives there...
if yes...then god save his country from where he belongs...who believe in allaha...and this kind of lesson he learnt....this person is really son of zaid hamid..

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## hindesi

eastwatch said:


> Sorry, I will come back later.




No please don't, instead of wasting time here get a CAT scan done to see if there is anything left inside. Also visiting a mental institution for check-up aint a bad option but only after making sure that there is something upstairs to fix

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## FlyingEagle

Dear blood is of red colour on both the sides. 173 were killed and 308 were injured in an attack. In Pakistan multiples of these numbers are died and injured in suiside attacks. Pakistan was attacked at manawa, Elite forces, FBI etc. No one says that India is behind it. Why????????? 

I need hajmola to digest that Mumbai police, Indian Rangers and Indian commandos need more than 3 days to controll 10 Terrorists. All the security forces should be retrained.

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## Foster

FlyingEagle said:


> Dear blood is of red colour on both the sides. 173 were killed and 308 were injured in an attack. In Pakistan multiples of these numbers are died and injured in suiside attacks. Pakistan was attacked at manawa, Elite forces, FBI etc. No one says that India is behind it. Why?????????
> 
> I need hajmola to digest that Mumbai police, Indian Rangers and Indian commandos need more than 3 days to controll 10 Terrorists. All the security forces should be retrained.



You are counting this 173....from 20 yrz we are facing this that you are facing now...India is on the top of terrorist hit states...Tell them those who are running your country..the other side people have also red color...India can beat china in case of economy but out 50% of brain goes on how to tackle terrorist and you can also grow but you use 100% of ur brain how to disturb India...

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## RobbieS

eastwatch said:


> Please check this possibility. When the attack was in the planning stage, the HINDU terrorists were guaranted a safe pagssage after the killing of Karkare. But, this, either by design or under the circumstances, did not materialize. So, they took shelter in Taj Mahal Hotel.
> 
> By another plot, the hindu JIHADIS were cornered in the hotel, but were allowed enough time to kill the passersby. This only proved the involvement of muslim Pakistanis, who are so willing to shed hindu blood.
> 
> Sorry, I will come back later.



Total BS. Dont even want to counter what you have said. You really watch a lot of conspiracy theory movies, dont u?

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## All-Green

vsdoc said:


> Isme mind my language ki kya baat hai bhai?
> 
> Kuch galat kaha maine?
> 
> Most (if not all) Pakistanis feel their hukumat is a joke.
> 
> The Taliban definitely do.
> 
> As do vast tracts of Pakistan - SWAT, NWFP, FATA, Waziristan, Balochistan.
> 
> What do you expect ..... that granting Autonomy would mollify them and magically make them pro-hukumat?
> 
> Apna desh sambhala nahin jata, aur doosron ke desh mein naak ghusane ka shauk hai.
> 
> Yeh duniya bol rahi hai mere dost.
> 
> Suno.
> 
> Samjho.
> 
> Aankhen kholo.
> 
> Kuch karo.
> 
> Apna desh bachao.
> 
> *Afghanistan US aur hum sambhaal lenge. *
> 
> Cheers, Doc



Nahin Bhai jan, Afghanistan ko Afghani hi sambhaal saktay hain...aap please rahnay dain...


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## jaunty

Coolyo said:


> MUST WATCH for all Pakistanis!
> 
> Indian backed terrorism must be countered and exposed! Spread the word!
> 
> Ib_5nRcv0UU[/media] - TSS: Zaid Hamid & Ahmad Qureshi on Mumbai Attacks Part 1
> 
> FLCN6BOPN-E[/media] - TSS: Zaid Hamid & Ahmad Qureshi on Mumbai Attacks Part 2
> 
> Iih4MqOru0k[/media] - TSS: Zaid Hamid & Ahmad Qureshi on Mumbai Attacks Part 3
> 
> neeDavFx32g[/media] - TSS: Zaid Hamid & Ahmad Qureshi on Mumbai Attacks Part 4
> 
> fXYePB23U5s[/media] - TSS: Zaid Hamid & Ahmad Qureshi on Mumbai Attacks Part 5




DIdn't Mr. Zaid Hamid already expose it by his Amar Singh and Hira Lal story. 
Have a look again---





Seriously, how can people still believe this guy when his credibility has already been thrashed so hard. 

But yes, no wrong in listening to him as it can be one's daily dose of laughter

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## vsdoc

All-Green said:


> Nahin Bhai jan, Afghanistan ko Afghani hi sambhaal saktay hain...aap please rahnay dain...



Bhai jaan, kam se kam hum Afghanistan ko apne desh ka ek aur province (Afghania) to nahin maante. 

Cheers, Doc


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## FlyingEagle

Foster said:


> You are counting this 173....from 20 yrz we are facing this that you are facing now...India is on the top of terrorist hit states...Tell them those who are running your country..the other side people have also red color...India can beat china in case of economy but out 50% of brain goes on how to tackle terrorist and you can also grow but you use 100% of ur brain how to disturb India...



Dear Foster India is a state which always create difficulties for itself. You have a good govt as compare to Pakistan. There is a theory let me explain it to u: 
India spend 80% of its army's expense on kahmir against Pak Amy and mujahideen, Now it plant suiside bombers in Pakistan and saving 50% of their expense. 

Kaisa laga? As someone kick ur A**......... Its very easy to say something but my request is this don't become a fool urself. Look what happen in Pakistan PTV always show that only 5 ppl died in an attack but actually its 25. We don't belive on 5. So just be rational and think what is being done with u ppl.

Regards,


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## All-Green

This proves that this was indeed an international operation and not a simple matter of training a few terrorists and sending them on a boat trip from Pakistan...With the passage of time i am sure a lot more networks will be exposed...

Pakistan has helped in key arrests as well ..like of the person who managed the accounts and the one who arranged the VOIP phones in Spain, so it is not like there is no cooperation from GOP in this investigation.
I dare say that Pakistani agencies are cooperating with the Indian agencies but with so much mutual mistrust and tension on a government and people level, it is difficult to bring to light the cooperation and instead people resort to mudslinging...

The arrests in Italy further prove that there are many other governments which could not detect this plot before it hatched...


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## eastwatch

FlyingEagle said:


> Dear blood is of red colour on both the sides. 173 were killed and 308 were injured in an attack. In Pakistan multiples of these numbers are died and injured in suiside attacks. Pakistan was attacked at manawa, Elite forces, FBI etc. No one says that India is behind it. Why?????????
> 
> I need hajmola to digest that Mumbai police, Indian Rangers and Indian commandos need more than 3 days to controll 10 Terrorists. All the security forces should be retrained.



3 days were needed to give the Hindu terrorists time to kill the innocents. This was needed to bypass the Karkare killing and focus on the numbers killed. Time was also needed to kill the terrorists to shut their mouths. 

Without these killings and the subsequent killing of the terrorists, it would have been proved that they were for the blood of Karkare, who dared to find out rhe truth of army involvement in Hindu terrorism.

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## FireFighter

Foster said:


> He is not bangladeshi...either he is from pakistan..or ISI agent





OMG.... That's simply hilarious. So anyone that doesn't buy your Indian propaganda and Bullshit must be from Pakistan or an ISI agent? Your logic is really twisted mate. 


Can't muster up the courage to admit he's Bangladeshi? Indian's logic here is really twisted. Not being able to accept criticism is a sign of arrogance and cowardice. Totally out of 

The reality is that none of your neighbours buy your propaganda. Whether they're Chinese, Bangladeshi's, Lankans, Kashmiris, or Pakistan. 

Better start accepting it before its too late.

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## ek_indian

FlyingEagle said:


> Dear Foster India is a state which always create difficulties for itself. You have a good govt as compare to Pakistan. There is a theory let me explain it to u:
> India spend 80% of its army's expense on kahmir against Pak Amy and mujahideen, Now it plant suiside bombers in Pakistan and saving 50% of their expense.



Please let me know the source for this 80% figure. BTW, India has major conflicts with Pakistan so it is obvious to spends large some money on related borders. Offtopic but can how tell us what percentage of total defence expense PA spends on its eastern border.

As your suicide bombing theory (fantasy) is concerned, there is only lip service from GoP even. No evidences to anyone.



FlyingEagle said:


> Kaisa laga? As someone kick ur A**......... Its very easy to say something but my request is this don't become a fool urself. Look what happen in Pakistan PTV always show that only 5 ppl died in an attack but actually its 25. We don't belive on 5. So just be rational and think what is being done with u ppl.



We are not here to score points over each other. And the same request applies to everyone including you as well. Hope better sense prevails.

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## ek_indian

eastwatch said:


> 3 days were needed to give the Hindu terrorists time to kill the innocents. This was needed to bypass the Karkare killing and focus on the numbers killed. Time was also needed to kill the terrorists to shut their mouths.
> 
> Without these killings and the subsequent killing of the terrorists, it would have been proved that they were for the blood of Karkare, who dared to find out rhe truth of army involvement in Hindu terrorism.



Since GoP has already accepted this operation was partially planned, funded and supported in Pakistan. So all your post becomes irrelevant.

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## All-Green

vsdoc said:


> Bhai jaan, kam se kam hum Afghanistan ko apne desh ka ek aur province (Afghania) to nahin maante.
> 
> Cheers, Doc



Bhai Jan, actually it is the opposite...it has been Afghanistan which claimed our western belt and even attacked Pakistan in 1962 and was beaten roundly by the Pakistani Tribesmen and Military.

BTW the term Afghania was used since long to represent Pashtuns even before the Afghanistan name came into being as a State.


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## SMC

ssheppard said:


> International politics is works on a simple logic......nail your enemy at the first instance......expose his evil deeds in front of the entire world as soon as you have the first valid proof of his involvement.....is it too difficult .....
> 
> 
> India had proof..and it went on with an excellent diplomatic offensive against Pakistan ...and secluded and cornered Pakistan using whatever proof it had.....and the world got convinced ...and look at your country..now....your govt.. has to justify each and every move..it makes even inside your own country.....


 Your lack of knowledge is apparant here. It's you shut up about things you don't know about.




> Same holds good for Pakistanis if they don't want to believe that Pakistan is a terrorist breeding ground....the whole world is convinced and is working double shift to make Pakistanis work ten times more harder to get visas into their nations....



I couldn't care less about what the whole world believes. Whole world believes what their government wants them to believe. If Pakistan breeding terrorism was in some government's interests, they wouldn't talk about it. Just like how India breeding terrorism is in interests for some countries, so they never talk about. Like I said, shut up about what you don't know.


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## SMC

As far as indian consulates go, it's not just the consulates, its the number of so-called information centers and secret centers that india has to support terrorism. I don't see any results that india has achieved in Afghanistan other than building some roads. I do know what they have been doing as far as TTP is concerned.


----------



## SMC

hindesi said:


> Isn't that your personal opinion, this kind of censorship is not the answer. You have to counter argue and put points against a statement.



He is not saying what he means by deluded. If he means that we do not believe that TTP is behind the attacks, then he is wrong. Most Pakistanis believe that. If he is talking about indian involvement, then he is misinformed. People have reason to believe in indian involvement. If you believe that each and every bit of information is presented to people by governments, you're the one deluded. 



> It not only makes sense to me but many of your fellow Pakistanis as well read the comments made by them if you don't trust/believe Indians. And for godsakes try looking at things from their and our way as well it just might make a little sense to you and your fellow Admins here.



If I remember there were no comments on the article you posted.

It makes a "a little sense" to you and some Pakistan-hating Pakistanis. I couldnt' care less what these people have to say. I do not know what comments you're posted but the posts are always along the lines of "you must be deluded" or "conspiracy theorists" etc, which never answer the concerns but just use cheap tactics to shut people up.


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## SMC

RobbieS said:


> Yeah! And after killing Karkare and Salskar, those Hindu RAW terrorists went to Taj and Oberoi to kill more of their brethren. Of course they did all this to malign Pakistan.
> 
> Dude you seriously need to get yourself a mental check-up.



The bounds to which people have no idea what they're talking about couldn't get any worse. And this is just an example. Son, do you seriously believe if it was hindu extremists behind these attacks, they will make it THAT obvious by simply just him?


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## SMC

ek_indian said:


> Since GoP has already accepted this operation was partially planned, funded and supported in Pakistan. So all your post becomes irrelevant.



That's really irrelevent. You don't know what happens behind close doors in politics.


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## SMC

The Nadeem article fails to address anything worthwhile. Yes, those who believe TTP are not behind the attacks are deluded. But the concern is where TTP is getting its logistical and financial funding. The article fails to address that except saying that 'anyone who doesn't agree with me is a moron'.


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## SMC

Nobody answered my posts on page 2 as to what's going on with the Samjhauta express story. Do americans have their own version of the story? Are they confusing the attack with some other attack?


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## iamunique

My sincere thanks to all the Indian bloggers who have posted in this thread. 

My dear Indian Brothers, by voicing your comments here you have upheld the honour of those of our martyred brothers and sisters who can no longer speak for themselves. Today the Pakistanis and Bangladeshis will claim that those innocents were killed by our own government and tomorrow they'll claim that the incident never happened and that it is a figment of our imagination. But it is upto to us to ensure that the flame of those dead countrymen is never allowed to die out. NEVER FORGET... NEVER FORGIVE!

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## iamunique

Ahsan_R said:


> You don't know what happens behind close doors in politics.



Beautiful statement Ahsan, but it applies to you as well...


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## arihant

Ahsan_R said:


> So yet again they shifted the blame to Pakistan for Samjhauta express with false evidence. Not too long ago they were blaming Pakistan then hindu extremists and now Pakistan again. Attacking Pakistani nationals in india is the last thing LeT would do.



What is false and what is true is not known by me and you. It is known by investigators. Purohit was never blamed for Samjota although it was inquired because Suitcase were assemble in popular city Indore were meeting of Malegoan Blast was held.

They don't blame, they blame LeT. If you consider LeT a part of Pakistan, then do mean Pakistan otherwise an Islamic Militant.



Ahsan_R said:


> So as it turns out all this blaming shifting has been done by US treasury. On what grounds and for what reasons is unclear, because not too long ago it was established that hindu extremists were behind this. And what is US treasury doing dealing with terrorism? That's not one of their roles is it?
> 
> So to summarize it.
> 
> Before 1st July 2009, everyone, including indians, believe that it was hindu extremists behind Samjhauta express bombings.
> 
> On 1st July, a US treasury article shows up blaming LeT. Surprisingly, it has absolutely no input from indian government but rather seems to be independent. No proof or reasoning is given except this statement:
> 
> "al Qaida provided Qasmani with operatives to support the July 2006 train bombing in Mumbai, India, and the February 2007 Samjota Express bombing in Panipat, India."
> 
> All this time before it was said by indian government that it was hindu extremists. Now from no input from indians, it is said that it was LeT. Either US is confusing this with an another attack or saying this for another reason which is unclear.



No one is confusing, its Ziad Hamid who is confusing you a lot. We don't know what US published or not. Hindu Extremist Purohit was called in as suspect then released because he was not involved in that. The reason he was suspected is mentioned above. Please care to read it again. - Thanks



Ahsan_R said:


> Ok no one is asking you to watch it. Don't watch it if you think they are BS or something. It is not made for any international audience.
> 
> Christine Fair also said that india is supporting terrorism in Pakistan so if you agree with her on that you should also consider what else she said.



If he said we agree, but not too long Mrs. Clinton told that there has been proof about India's involvement in Baluchistan or in Pakistan. Is not Clinton more aware than your C fair. Wait a minute. You talk about US treasury.... without proof blamed LeT. Is not this also without anything. You should stop two way games first of all.

Let me admit India involved in Baluchistan because I think they are. Then what ? You are the most unhuman to spread terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir. You are having JeM, LeT, Hujju, etc. Now you have shifted from Kashmir to Mumbai, Delhi, Ahmedabad. First of clear your terrorism then talk about Baluchistan. 



Ahsan_R said:


> The Nadeem article fails to address anything worthwhile. Yes, those who believe TTP are not behind the attacks are deluded. But the concern is where TTP is getting its logistical and financial funding. The article fails to address that except saying that 'anyone who doesn't agree with me is a moron'.



TTP ? Oh! Hopefully you have good memory. TTP announce just after Mumbai Attack that if India attacked Pakistan, they will join Pakistan side and will fight till last blood. Again two way game. Stop it enough Hamid Fan.



Ahsan_R said:


> That's really irrelevent. You don't know what happens behind close doors in politics.



Looks Perfect, you are still behind door. Try to kill Hamid Dreams and come to real world




Ahsan_R said:


> Nobody answered my posts on page 2 as to what's going on with the Samjhauta express story. Do americans have their own version of the story? Are they confusing the attack with some other attack?



*- Hopefully I covered your Page 2 Successfully*. 



idune said:


> indians will caught red handed stealing yet they will claim its was someone else doing it. That's how big liar and deceivers they are.



Sorry BD troller, for you no answer.

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## idune

adatta said:


> @idune
> dada don't mind but i think you have forgotten you country's history....the flag that you are posting under your name would have been different if we didn't intervene....beimani korle cholbe?



Your media and govt fed you bull crap and your are still living in it. Bangaldeshis did india a big favor by seperated from india's enemy. So show some gratitude.

Regardless what you bringing up is not an argument for the topic but misrable failure to hide indian involvement in terrorism.


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## iamunique

idune said:


> Regardless what you bringing up is not an argument for the topic but misrable failure to hide indian involvement in terrorism.



What topic are you refering to? The topic here is Pakistan's involvement in the Mumbai Attacks. If you want to talk about Indian involvement in terrorism, go to the appropriate thread. Your attitude is so typical of the Bangladeshis nowadays -- you're just blindly following the Pakistanis. Carry on... the result will be the same and then you'll come back to us crying for help.

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## haawk

this has more meaning with regards to the topic title than what has been posted above:

Italian arrests cast fresh doubt on Islamabad probe&#8217;s integrity

Last November, two rubber dinghies carrying 10 Lashkar-e-Taiba &#8220;fidayeen&#8221; armed with assault rifles and explosives nudged up along the Mumbai shoreline.

One hundred and seventy-three people died, and more than 300 were injured in the carnage that followed.

In the months that have passed, evidence has been mounting that Pakistan investigators had failed to act against key perpetrators&#8212;and, worse, may have colluded in effort to help them evade justice.

During his visit to Jammu and Kashmir last month, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh made clear his dissatisfaction with the Pakistani investigation&#8212;the latest in a series of Indian high officials to do so. &#8220;We are not satisfied,&#8221; he said, &#8220;that goes without saying. We hope Pakistan will take effective measures to bring to justice all the perpetrators of 26/11.&#8221;

Saturday&#8217;s arrests in Italy have thrown up fresh evidence that muddies Pakistan&#8217;s claims to be serious about investigating the carnage in Mumbai.

In February, 2009, Pakistan&#8217;s Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik alleged that Barcelona resident Javed Iqbal was responsible for transferring funds to the United States-based voice-over-internet service used by the Lashkar to guide the assault unit that carried out the attacks.

&#8220;Having ascertained the involvement of Javed Iqbal,&#8221; Mr. Malik told journalists, &#8220;we somehow lured him into coming to Pakistan and he was arrested on his arrival.&#8221;

Pakistani investigators were reported to have discovered Mr. Iqbal&#8217;s role in the funds transfers after examining a computer used by a key Lashkar commander, identified by the code-name Zarar Shah.

But in an exclusive interview to The&#8194;Hindu, Italian counter-terrorism police chief Stefano Fonzi asserted that Mr. Iqbal had never in fact travelled to his country&#8212;and was likely a victim of identity theft.

Italy&#8217;s crack Divisione Investigazioni Generali e Operazioni Speciali, [Division of General Investigations and Special Operations] arrested 60-year-old Mohammad Yaqub Janjua and his 31-year-old son Aamer Yaqub Janjua routing the funds through their Brescia business.

&#8220;We discovered,&#8221; Mr. Fonzi said, &#8220;that the Brescia-based outfit had made several transfers using the identity of totally innocent, unsuspecting persons. Thus there were over 300 transfers in the name of a certain Javed Iqbal, who had never even set foot in Italy,

Mr. Fonzi also said the owners of the funds acted on instructions from two Pakistan-based individuals he was not at liberty to name. It is unclear why Pakistan has not held the two suspects.

Missing commanders

India investigators believe that the funds trail could lead to Sajid Mir&#8212;head of the Lashkar&#8217;s transcontinental operations, whose name has figured in investigations of terrorist cells stretching from Australia and Europe to the United States.

Many Indian investigators believe Mir, who remains at large, could in fact be Zarar Shah: the commander who guided the Mumbai assault team through the voice-over-internet connections purchased through Brescia.

Pakistani authorities have identified Sheikhupura resident Abdul Wajid as &#8220;Zarar Shah,&#8221; and charged him with organising these transactions. However, Pakistan has refused to allow the FBI access to Wajid, raising suspicions that he may in fact be a relatively low-level operative. It has also so far failed to provide Wajid&#8217;s voice samples, which would allow them to be matched against the audio in the intercepted phone calls.

Despite an official request, Indian authorities have also been denied photographs of Wajid, which would allow the Mumbai police to confirm if he is indeed the individual known as Zarar Shah to jihadists who met him in the past&#8212;among them alleged Indian Mujahideen co-founder Sadiq Israr Sheikh.

Both Indian and U.S.investigators have also been denied access to two other key suspects, Lashkar military chief Zaki-ur-Rahman Lakhvi and his deputy, Mazhar Iqbal.

For the most part, Pakistan&#8217;s action against the top leadership of the Lashkar has been marked by indifference.

Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, head of the Lashkar&#8217;s parent religious-political group, the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, has never been prosecuted for leading the organisation that carried out the attacks.

Muzammil Bhat, the Lashkar&#8217;s top military commander, remains at large, though intercepted phone calls show he remains in touch with Lashkar units across Pakistan.

In recent weeks, new leads have begun to emerge, with the arrests of Lashkar operatives Ronald Headley and Tahawwur Rana in Chicago&#8212;men India believes may have carried out pre-attack reconnaissance for the assault team.

&#8220;But without full cooperation from Pakistan,&#8221; a senior Indian intelligence official told The Hindu, &#8220;it is profoundly unlikely we&#8217;ll ever know the full picture.&#8221;

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## SMC

arihant said:


> They don't blame, they blame LeT. If you consider LeT a part of Pakistan, then do mean Pakistan otherwise an Islamic Militant.


 I don't consider LeT Pakistan. Indians confuse the two sometimes so I was directly referring to that.



> No one is confusing, its Ziad Hamid who is confusing you a lot. We don't know what US published or not. Hindu Extremist Purohit was called in as suspect then released because he was not involved in that. The reason he was suspected is mentioned above. Please care to read it again. - Thanks



I am not any Zaid Hamid fan so stop putting words in my mouth. Before July 1, 2009 it was believed that it was hindu extremists behind the attack. Now only July 1 US treasury comes in and blames LeT without any input from indians. I believe either US has cooked up their own version or they are either confusing this attack with another one.



> If he said we agree, but not too long Mrs. Clinton told that there has been proof about India's involvement in Baluchistan or in Pakistan. Is not Clinton more aware than your C fair. Wait a minute. You talk about US treasury.... without proof blamed LeT. Is not this also without anything. You should stop two way games first of all.


 I have dealt with this several times. Hillary Clinton is part of US state which has its own interests. US treasury has not even made any fake proof. 

You're blaming me of two way game but you're doing it yourself. You accept LeT responsibility in Samjhauta express without any proof while asking me for evidence of indian involvement. See how it works from that angle?

Additionally, if US had any evidence, they would've showed it. It's an apples and oranges comparison to the Pakistan showing indian evidence because US is not under any pressure to not show the evidence.



> Let me admit India involved in Baluchistan because I think they are. Then what ? You are the most unhuman to spread terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir. You are having JeM, LeT, Hujju, etc. Now you have shifted from Kashmir to Mumbai, Delhi, Ahmedabad. First of clear your terrorism then talk about Baluchistan.



Your history goes back only so many years. Let me remind you who started terrorism. Remember 1971? RAW's heavy involvement in supporting terrorists? OK you might make the argument of supporting liberation of bengalis, but same argument can be used against you that since Kashmiris are oppressed, we are merely supporting their liberation. Again, see how angle works.

And please, Mumbai, Delhi, Ahmedabad were not done by the state. Additionally, all that terrorism is eclipsed by indian terrorism in Pakistan.




> TTP ? Oh! Hopefully you have good memory. TTP announce just after Mumbai Attack that if India attacked Pakistan, they will join Pakistan side and will fight till last blood. Again two way game. Stop it enough Hamid Fan.


 That's a pathetic argument. TTP will NOT fight india. They only say that to get more popularity. They have shown no actual intent on fighting india and just use words.



> Looks Perfect, you are still behind door. Try to kill Hamid Dreams and come to real world


 So only personal attacks. Not surprising.




> *- Hopefully I covered your Page 2 Successfully*.



No you haven't. You went off topic.


----------



## hindesi

Ahsan_R said:


> He is not saying what he means by deluded. If he means that we do not believe that TTP is behind the attacks, then he is wrong. Most Pakistanis believe that. If he is talking about indian involvement, then he is misinformed. *People have reason to believe in indian involvement. If you believe that each and every bit of information is presented to people by governments, you're the one deluded.*



Firstly, I'd like to know the reason why Pakistanis feel so with proofs and not some random video of a guy saying stuff..

Secondly I totally agree with you when you say one should not believe everything the governments have to say. I never said I believe all that the GOI or Indian media has to say not only regarding Pakistan but in general as well, they're journalist not gods.. they're prone to be bias and would try to force their views on people and that holds true for media everywhere in the civilized world. 



> If I remember there were no comments on the article you posted.



True but I felt after reading many Pakistanis comments and they seemed logical and analytical hence the interpretation that they might agree to what Nadeem F Pasha has to say if not everything than certainly most of the stuff.



> It makes a "a little sense" to you and some Pakistan-hating Pakistanis. I couldnt' care less what these people have to say. I do not know what comments you're posted but the posts are always along the lines of "you must be deluded" or "conspiracy theorists" etc, which never answer the concerns but just use cheap tactics to shut people up.



No it makes sense in general, you don't want to believe it.. thts totally another matter. I just asked you guys to read the article with an open mind dinn I? .. I was protesting about why the comments were deleted thts all.. believing in what Nadem says or not is Pakistans civil society's prerogative. I gave my opinion saying his analysis of Pakistani society in spot on. And FYI if someone criticizes, it does not mean he hates you.. just so you know. 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...hmad-qureshi-fight-against-indian-terror.html

This type of mentality is what Nadeem is talking about in that article. People like Zaid Hameed who doesn't know **** are given importance and spot light by your media. Read the comments posted by some Pakistanis there and then read Nadeem's article. 
Hell this guy Zaid claimed Kasab is Arjun singh WTF!!! what happened afterwards.. GOP accepted that he was a Pakistani national dinn they?? These people are war mongerers, they poison vulnerable minds with their propaganda and are bane to any society.. We have our share of these people as well but they don't get the kind of spotlight Zaid Hameed and Co. get in Pakistan. and thank allah/rama/jesus for it!!!
 

Im off to watch Inglorious Basterds


----------



## haawk

Italian arrests cast fresh doubt on Islamabad probe&#8217;s integrity

Last November, two rubber dinghies carrying 10 Lashkar-e-Taiba &#8220;fidayeen&#8221; armed with assault rifles and explosives nudged up along the Mumbai shoreline.

One hundred and seventy-three people died, and more than 300 were injured in the carnage that followed.

In the months that have passed, evidence has been mounting that Pakistan investigators had failed to act against key perpetrators&#8212;and, worse, may have colluded in effort to help them evade justice.

During his visit to Jammu and Kashmir last month, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh made clear his dissatisfaction with the Pakistani investigation&#8212;the latest in a series of Indian high officials to do so. &#8220;We are not satisfied,&#8221; he said, &#8220;that goes without saying. We hope Pakistan will take effective measures to bring to justice all the perpetrators of 26/11.&#8221;

Saturday&#8217;s arrests in Italy have thrown up fresh evidence that muddies Pakistan&#8217;s claims to be serious about investigating the carnage in Mumbai.

In February, 2009, Pakistan&#8217;s Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik alleged that Barcelona resident Javed Iqbal was responsible for transferring funds to the United States-based voice-over-internet service used by the Lashkar to guide the assault unit that carried out the attacks.

&#8220;Having ascertained the involvement of Javed Iqbal,&#8221; Mr. Malik told journalists, &#8220;we somehow lured him into coming to Pakistan and he was arrested on his arrival.&#8221;

Pakistani investigators were reported to have discovered Mr. Iqbal&#8217;s role in the funds transfers after examining a computer used by a key Lashkar commander, identified by the code-name Zarar Shah.

But in an exclusive interview to The&#8194;Hindu, Italian counter-terrorism police chief Stefano Fonzi asserted that Mr. Iqbal had never in fact travelled to his country&#8212;and was likely a victim of identity theft.

Italy&#8217;s crack Divisione Investigazioni Generali e Operazioni Speciali, [Division of General Investigations and Special Operations] arrested 60-year-old Mohammad Yaqub Janjua and his 31-year-old son Aamer Yaqub Janjua routing the funds through their Brescia business.

&#8220;We discovered,&#8221; Mr. Fonzi said, &#8220;that the Brescia-based outfit had made several transfers using the identity of totally innocent, unsuspecting persons. Thus there were over 300 transfers in the name of a certain Javed Iqbal, who had never even set foot in Italy,

Mr. Fonzi also said the owners of the funds acted on instructions from two Pakistan-based individuals he was not at liberty to name. It is unclear why Pakistan has not held the two suspects.

Missing commanders

India investigators believe that the funds trail could lead to Sajid Mir&#8212;head of the Lashkar&#8217;s transcontinental operations, whose name has figured in investigations of terrorist cells stretching from Australia and Europe to the United States.

Many Indian investigators believe Mir, who remains at large, could in fact be Zarar Shah: the commander who guided the Mumbai assault team through the voice-over-internet connections purchased through Brescia.

Pakistani authorities have identified Sheikhupura resident Abdul Wajid as &#8220;Zarar Shah,&#8221; and charged him with organising these transactions. However, Pakistan has refused to allow the FBI access to Wajid, raising suspicions that he may in fact be a relatively low-level operative. It has also so far failed to provide Wajid&#8217;s voice samples, which would allow them to be matched against the audio in the intercepted phone calls.

Despite an official request, Indian authorities have also been denied photographs of Wajid, which would allow the Mumbai police to confirm if he is indeed the individual known as Zarar Shah to jihadists who met him in the past&#8212;among them alleged Indian Mujahideen co-founder Sadiq Israr Sheikh.

Both Indian and U.S.investigators have also been denied access to two other key suspects, Lashkar military chief Zaki-ur-Rahman Lakhvi and his deputy, Mazhar Iqbal.

For the most part, Pakistan&#8217;s action against the top leadership of the Lashkar has been marked by indifference.

Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, head of the Lashkar&#8217;s parent religious-political group, the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, has never been prosecuted for leading the organisation that carried out the attacks.

Muzammil Bhat, the Lashkar&#8217;s top military commander, remains at large, though intercepted phone calls show he remains in touch with Lashkar units across Pakistan.

In recent weeks, new leads have begun to emerge, with the arrests of Lashkar operatives Ronald Headley and Tahawwur Rana in Chicago&#8212;men India believes may have carried out pre-attack reconnaissance for the assault team.

&#8220;But without full cooperation from Pakistan,&#8221; a senior Indian intelligence official told The Hindu, &#8220;it is profoundly unlikely we&#8217;ll ever know the full picture.&#8221;


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## PostColonial

Even the Italians have joined in the anti-Pakistan propaganda!


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## Srinivas

WebMaster said:


> Good news if true. Hopefully, it will expose the real culprits behind these attacks.
> 
> Its always nice to catch the culprits. Hoping that RAW gets exposed soon with the funding to the terrorists in Pakistan.



Sure Webbie if India is behind those attacks and that is a BIG IF


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## Srinivas

Ahsan_R said:


> As far as indian consulates go, it's not just the consulates, its the number of so-called information centers and secret centers that india has to support terrorism. I don't see any results that india has achieved in Afghanistan other than building some roads. I do know what they have been doing as far as TTP is concerned.



Before accusing India just look at the past history of Pakistan whose head of state once dreamed of Afghanistan as their new province. India is doing Humanitarian assistance by building roads and infrastructure it is not giving logistical support to Taliban. 
Afganistan is a sovereign country and it is internal matter for it to decide how many indian consulates it needs. in case you forgot it is your own zardari who has signed a peace deal in SWAT not long ago which further helped the aspirations of these terrorists.


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## SMC

> Firstly, I'd like to know the reason why Pakistanis feel so with proofs and not some random video of a guy saying stuff..



I am not taking the Zaid Hamid video as proof of a mumbai conspiracy. I still believe that it was LeT. However, the story that indians have put forward has some loop holes and the question raised in the video highlight those loopholes. It has some interesting questions that remain unanswered. Answering those questions and closing those loopholes would make the story stronger.



> True but I felt after reading many Pakistanis comments and they seemed logical and analytical hence the interpretation that they might agree to what Nadeem F Pasha has to say if not everything than certainly most of the stuff.
> 
> No it makes sense in general, you don't want to believe it.. thts totally another matter. I just asked you guys to read the article with an open mind dinn I? .. I was protesting about why the comments were deleted thts all.. believing in what Nadem says or not is Pakistans civil society's prerogative. I gave my opinion saying his analysis of Pakistani society in spot on. And FYI if someone criticizes, it does not mean he hates you.. just so you know.



Again, "logical and analytical" is subjective. What logic depends on is the existance of every single bit of information. If one bit of information is missing, logic cannot be used to make conclusions.

Making sense in general is again subjective. 

What do you mean I don't want to believe it? I don't want to believe that india is not behind terrorism? That's like saying I don't want to believe grass is green. It's not really a point.

One cannot look at the article from an open mind because it forces you to look at things from its view. Its a heavily biased article, a blog no less. The arguments put forward by the article have been posted several times on this forum and have been countered repeatedly. 

Yes there is no doubt that TTP is behind the attack, but the question is their funding. The CIA-RAW-Mossad angle goes a bit too far. I believe it is only RAW behind supporting terrorism. CIA and Mossad are possibilities but RAW is confirmed. He only says that anyone believing this is delusional, which is nothing but a personal attack and offers nothing constructive against it.

So to summarize, the article offers nothing new except what has been said by indians over and over again on this forum, and has been countered repeatedly.

If you agree with the article, great. Don't think many people here (Pakistanis) care.


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## SMC

sukhoi_30MKI said:


> Before accusing India just look at the past history of Pakistan whose head of state once dreamed of Afghanistan as their new province.


 Doesn't give india right to support terrorism.



> India is doing Humanitarian assistance by building roads and infrastructure it is not giving logistical support to Taliban.


 And they have achieved very little. They have achieved quite a bit on another front.




> Afganistan is a sovereign country and it is internal matter for it to decide how many indian consulates it needs.


 If the consulates are helping terrorists, then it becomes our problem.



> in case you forgot it is your own zardari who has signed a peace deal in SWAT not long ago which further helped the aspirations of these terrorists.



And you know what happened to them in Swat. Now US is making secret peace deals with terrorists. What's your point?


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## Srinivas

Doesn't give india right to support terrorism.

Come with credible evedence like Kasab  Until then then it is not a credible statement.
India is not supporting any terrorist organizations Ask your own ISI who is still thinking these TTP as a strategic asset to use them against India.
Pakistan on one side is supporting these so called Taliban(forgot to say "good taliban") and on the other side waging a war(god only knows how this can be done).




Ahsan_R said:


> And they have achieved very little. They have achieved quite a bit on another front.


 India is doing humanitarian assistance and you cannot measure achievements regarding that.



Ahsan_R said:


> If the consulates are helping terrorists, then it becomes our problem.


 again a statement which has no credebility with out any back up evidence 




Ahsan_R said:


> And you know what happened to them in Swat. Now US is making secret peace deals with terrorists. What's your point?


 So can i say pakistan is doing great job than US?
the point is GOP and ISI has been working closely and the only thing that separates them is WOT and US involvement. Apart from that these Taliban and ISI have strong links.


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## RiazHaq

S.M. Mushrif, former Police Chief of Maharashtra and the author of "Who Killed Karkare?", believes that the Indian Intelligence Bureau (IB) is up to its neck in conspiring with the extreme Hindutva groups against Indian Muslims and creating trouble between India and Pakistan, and now it is ominous to see one of the former IB leaders K.C. Verma heading RAW as of early this year.

The power establishment that really runs the affairs of India (Mushrif says it is not Sonia Gandhi, Manmohan Singh or Rahul Gandhi) does not want to expose the rabidly anti-Muslim Hindutva terrorists.

Verma was appointed earlier this year as the new head of RAW, regarded as one of the top intelligence agencies along with Mossad, ISI, SVR, MI6, and the CIA. This choice appears to have been made at the suggestion of intelligence hawks like B. Raman to appoint an outsider, in spite of significant resistance from within the agency. Mr. Verma has been tasked with rapidly building strong covert ops capabilities within RAW. It is not a coincidence that the terrorist attacks in Pakistan have dramatically increased since Verma took the reins of RAW.


I think Shekhar Gupta, who recently wrote in India Express about the undisguised glee in India, knows some of the most hateful Indian bigots lurking here on the Internet, and their misguided cohorts in India. Gupta is calling them "the mobs" and singling them out for his most caustic warnings against "jubilating" and "utterly unconcealed sense of delight" at the unfolding tragedy in Pakistan.

"Finally" he is sounding the alarm to all anti-Pakistan chauvinists in India that "time has also come to set in place some kind of diplomatic standard operating procedures in case more terror attacks take place because a third round of coercive diplomacy may spin out of control".

Haq's Musings: Taliban or RAW-liban?


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## Iggy

Heroes of Nariman House

Among the people attending the function, I was surprised to meet Maulana Mohammed Niyaz of the nearby Colaba Masjid. He also runs Darul Uloom Hanfia Razvia, a madrassa that has 175 students. &#8220;What brings you to this meeting organised by the Shiv Sena?&#8221; He replied unflappably: &#8220;We share the grief of all the people who have gathered here. We are all Indians, irrespective of our religions. I pray to Allah that He does hifazat of Hindustan. Anyone who looks at Hindustan with an evil eye, even if it is Pakistan, has to have that eye taken out.&#8221; I met him later in his masjid to continue the conversation. &#8220;Those were terrible days for us,&#8221; he said. &#8220;We were afraid that some extremists might harm Muslims, who are only 10 per cent of Colaba&#8217;s population. But Vijaybhai, whom I know for many years, assured me on the first night that he would ensure the safety of the mosque and the madrassa. He not only kept his word, but also sent food to the inmates for three days. On the third day, Shiv Sainiks helped us shift the madrassa students to a safe place. I later wrote a letter of thanks to Vijaybhai. In these matters, I don&#8217;t see party labels. If someone has done good work, it must be appreciated


So much for Hindu terrorists...Also read the link to know about common people who turned heroes..Muslims are also in it..


I saw special report about 9/11 yesterday on CNN IBN ..The same story was told by the Vijay Surve and Maulana Mohammed Niyaz...Nice to see that even if they had different political policies ,in the time of crisis they helped each other and work together...


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## arihant

RiazHaq said:


> S.M. Mushrif, former Police Chief of Maharashtra and the author of "Who Killed Karkare?", believes that the Indian Intelligence Bureau (IB) is up to its neck in conspiring with the extreme Hindutva groups against Indian Muslims and creating trouble between India and Pakistan, and now it is ominous to see one of the former IB leaders K.C. Verma heading RAW as of early this year.
> 
> The power establishment that really runs the affairs of India (Mushrif says it is not Sonia Gandhi, Manmohan Singh or Rahul Gandhi) does not want to expose the rabidly anti-Muslim Hindutva terrorists.
> 
> Verma was appointed earlier this year as the new head of RAW, regarded as one of the top intelligence agencies along with Mossad, ISI, SVR, MI6, and the CIA. This choice appears to have been made at the suggestion of intelligence hawks like B. Raman to appoint an outsider, in spite of significant resistance from within the agency. Mr. Verma has been tasked with rapidly building strong covert ops capabilities within RAW. It is not a coincidence that the terrorist attacks in Pakistan have dramatically increased since Verma took the reins of RAW.
> 
> 
> I think Shekhar Gupta, who recently wrote in India Express about the undisguised glee in India, knows some of the most hateful Indian bigots lurking here on the Internet, and their misguided cohorts in India. Gupta is calling them "the mobs" and singling them out for his most caustic warnings against "jubilating" and "utterly unconcealed sense of delight" at the unfolding tragedy in Pakistan.
> 
> "Finally" he is sounding the alarm to all anti-Pakistan chauvinists in India that "time has also come to set in place some kind of diplomatic standard operating procedures in case more terror attacks take place because a third round of coercive diplomacy may spin out of control".
> 
> Haq's Musings: Taliban or RAW-liban?



First of good advertising of your blog.

Second he has written book. Similar is with Book written by Jaswant Singh.

He has not only blame IB for Karkare;s dead but also blamed Hindus for all attacks happen in India. He gives clear chit to Islamist Terrorist. 

Do you need more info. I think this is over.

First of all RAW unlike ISI is govern by PM. So whatever RAW is doing PM knows and we all know how our PM is. 

"It is not a coincidence that the terrorist attacks in Pakistan have dramatically increased since Verma took the reins of RAW." - Sorry brother could not digest. It looks that he became Chief order massacre in Pakistan. Good to know from you that there is not TTP. Also, not en coincidence that Naxal attacks have increased after ban on JuD.


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## arihant

Ahsan_R said:


> Your history goes back only so many years. Let me remind you who started terrorism. Remember 1971? RAW's heavy involvement in supporting terrorists? OK you might make the argument of supporting liberation of bengalis, but same argument can be used against you that since Kashmiris are oppressed, we are merely supporting their liberation. Again, see how angle works.



You are now calling Bangladeshi as Terrorist. 

You supporting their Liberation ? As per Pakistan, Kashmir is a part of Pakistan and not independent. Also UN Resolution doesn't allow for Independence. India is not active in integrating Baluch, Jinnapur, Sindhudesh, or pakhotoonistan as a part of Indian Republican. But you are surely doing this making fool kashmiri about their independence dream.


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## BSF

Man...this Zahaid dude has some serious problems with RAW and MOSSAD and CIA.

May be they abducted him and did some experiments on him and left him.

Some times Ajmal is Amar and some times he is a Pakistani...Sure...Sure.....


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## arihant

BSF said:


> Man...this Zahaid dude has some serious problems with RAW and MOSSAD and CIA.
> 
> May be they abducted him and did some experiments on him and left him.
> 
> Some times Ajmal is Amar and some times he is a Pakistani...Sure...Sure.....



Brother, Zaid Hamid itself is Kasab.


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## SMC

arihant said:


> You are now calling Bangladeshi as Terrorist.


 The people that RAW supported.



> You supporting their Liberation ?



Just incase you came up with that argument.



> As per Pakistan, Kashmir is a part of Pakistan and not independent. Also UN Resolution doesn't allow for Independence.



Irrelevant. The IoK part of Kashmir needs liberation.



> But you are surely doing this making fool kashmiri about their independence dream.



You just proved my point. If india can use terrorists and call them liberators then so can Pakistan.


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## Iggy

FlyingEagle said:


> Dear blood is of red colour on both the sides. 173 were killed and 308 were injured in an attack. In Pakistan multiples of these numbers are died and injured in suiside attacks. Pakistan was attacked at manawa, Elite forces, FBI etc. No one says that India is behind it. Why?????????
> 
> *I need hajmola to digest that Mumbai police, Indian Rangers and Indian commandos need more than 3 days to controll 10 Terrorists. All the security forces should be retrained*.



You dont need a hajmola just hear the facts ..Indian police was not a police force with Ak-47 or any hitech gadgets..their main weapon is a lathi and maximum .303 rifle ..its only because of their pure courage that terrorsits cant achive all the objectives..and its the same police who catch a terrorists with the bravery of Assistant sub-inspector Tukaram Omble...

He caught Kasab - only to go away forever, says family (One Year After 26/11)- Politics/Nation-News-The Economic Times

And our police was not trained for carrying out commando operations at that time..NSG was assigned for carrying out commando operations and rescue the remaining hostages..
NSG commandos operations has to taken place in 2-3 places at the same time..and also Taj Hotel has so many rooms..Every floor in Taj hotel has different design and those terrorists pigs were changing their positions rapidly..Even after killing those terrorists NSG has to sanitize the entire hotel to clear that no terrorist is hiding anywhere..It means the entire hotel rooms including bathrooms and even search under the bed..It almost took 18-20 hours...these 10 terrorists where professionally trained to fight against any oppositions and they where prepared to stay for a long period..enough ammunition were carried with them to engage in a small war..


And I still dont know why some Pakistanis are still living in a denial mode even after your government acknowledge that these terrorists including the living one is from Pakistan..Keep watching Hamid Anzari..he will tell TTP is the only savior of Pakistan one day and believe that too...

Your support for these terrorists in the name of freedom fighting is the sole reason why your country is in turmoil now..You cant learn from it then continue support Let or JuD or any one you like..


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## Hulk

IMO a person's credibility is lost once you catch his lie. He said Kasab is Amar Singh. Now that is proven to be a lie, so there lies his credibility. 
About one another thing that my Pakistani friends are continuous writing about Mr Prohit. 
1) Indian government discovered he was involved. 
2) Indian army gave the permission to prosecute him and that came very fast.
3) There was no confirm news saying he was involved in Samjhota express blast, however there was a news that he might have supplied the RDX for same. It was later found that in that blast RDX was not used.

A lot of people here speculate too much about Karkare and his death and does not care to check the facts. Here is some misinformation that is being spread.
1) Karkare and 2 other officers involved in Malegaon blast case were killed.
Truth Only Karkaree was involved in investigation as head. Rest 2 were from different department of Police.
2) Karakare was eliminated to prevent case against Malegaon blast accused.
Truth If that was the case then why the case is still on after 1 year, they should have been free. Also I do these people know that it is not just 1 person doing the investigation, Karkaree was heading the team but not leading the investigation. So why when we conspired to kill 170 we left the team of Malegaon blast untouched.

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## Atheist

I can only laugh at the helplessness of the Pakistani people who listen to such crap - And can any one answer me one very very very simple question??? Why have the Pakistan government and courts even allowed to book cases against the so called noble pakistani's involved in the Mumbai attack ... Please guys - if you seriously believe in this particular article by BS god Zaid Hamid then you are just in another Matrix world controlled by instruments of terror.


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## RiazHaq

arihant said:


> First of good advertising of your blog.
> 
> Second he has written book. Similar is with Book written by Jaswant Singh.
> 
> He has not only blame IB for Karkare;s dead but also blamed Hindus for all attacks happen in India. He gives clear chit to Islamist Terrorist.
> 
> Do you need more info. I think this is over.
> 
> First of all RAW unlike ISI is govern by PM. So whatever RAW is doing PM knows and we all know how our PM is.
> 
> "It is not a coincidence that the terrorist attacks in Pakistan have dramatically increased since Verma took the reins of RAW." - Sorry brother could not digest. It looks that he became Chief order massacre in Pakistan. Good to know from you that there is not TTP. Also, not en coincidence that Naxal attacks have increased after ban on JuD.



Unlike most authors and commentators on the subject, Mushrif has the benefit of inside knowledge about Indian IB misdeeds and the heavy infiltration of intelligence and security apparatus in India by the extreme right wing Hindu outfits who are the worst kind of terrorists. They are working on sparking a nuclear confrontation in South Asia that will eventually destroy them along with the rest of the innocent people in India and Pakistan. 

Haq's Musings: Terror in India--Who Killed Karkare?

How Karkare had Exposed Hindutva/Mossad Roles in Staging Terror in India including 26/11 Mumbai&#8207; - total_truth_sciences | Google Groups

http://www.riazhaq.com/2008/09/indias-guantanmo-and-abu-ghraib.html


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## SMC

sukhoi_30MKI said:


> Come with credible evedence like Kasab  Until then then it is not a credible statement.
> India is not supporting any terrorist organizations Ask your own ISI who is still thinking these TTP as a strategic asset to use them against India.
> Pakistan on one side is supporting these so called Taliban(forgot to say "good taliban") and on the other side waging a war(god only knows how this can be done).



Evidence will be presented sooner or later. Truth cannot hide forever. We DO KNOW of indian involvement as a fact.

ISI supporting TTP?  Man these indians blame Pakistanis for consipiracy theories, and then they come up with stuff like this. Listen kid. TTP has killed over 100 ISI members, its waging a war against Pakistan. ISI has no reason to support TTP. Afghan Taliban might be a different argument but TTP?  Do you even know the difference between TTP and Afghan Taliban? I doubt you do, because if you did, you wouldn't have made such a retarded statement.



> India is doing humanitarian assistance and you cannot measure achievements regarding that.


 Don't think india is doing that. If it was, indians would be posting left and right about it. And humanitarian assistance is definitely measureable. What kind of assistance are you doing, and in what ways are you assisting people? If you can tell me that, I can ask you questions regarding that will show that its measureable and more importantly show what indians have done regarding that. 



> So can i say pakistan is doing great job than US?
> the point is GOP and ISI has been working closely and the only thing that separates them is WOT and US involvement. Apart from that these Taliban and ISI have strong links.



Pakistan is definitely doing a better job than US. Look how TTP are on the run and doing these bomb blasts as an act of desperation. They have been evicted from Swat, soon to be evicted from SWA, and will then be only present in some of the tribal agenices.

As for rest you said, I can't make it out exactly what you're trying to say.

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## eastwatch

ek_indian said:


> Since GoP has already accepted this operation was partially planned, funded and supported in Pakistan. So all your post becomes irrelevant.



Yes, the GoP had to accept responsibility under pressure from the USA of President Bush. All those exchanges of notes, blames, refusal of blames are only public stunts. Even if Bombay was organized by LeT of Pakistan, is it then the responsibility of GoP? It is certainly not.

But, both the countries are exchanging notes or blames fully knowing the truth, i.e, the Bombay carnage was organized by Hindu terrorists and their main target was to eliminate Police Officer Karkare.

It is possible that somehow the Indian LeT has infiltrated the Hindu outfit, but it is physically impossible for their gangs to come from Karachi. Their planning, as has been described by the GoI, cannot be implemented. Even James Bond would not go for such a long voyage, when other easier methods were available. 

There was a sea voyage, but it was not from Karachi, but from somewhere in the Indian south. A sea voyage was needed to avoid road checkings on their way to Bombay, where Karkare was working to expose Hindu terrorism sponsored by a group of military people.

By the way, I have seen many photographs showing Kasab and a few other south Indian-looking terrorists. The pictures were taken from outside a transparent glass panel or a glass door. If these were taken from a distant, then it is obvious that they could also have been killed by the army shooters with guns fitted with telescopes. But, they were not killed. 

I have seen security people, with pot belly, shooting at them from behind parked cars. But, then who took the photographs of the terrorists, and how it was possible when the photographers themselves could have been killed? Do not you see that all these were set ups?

Photographers were not killed. Why? Because, their objects were all models of a pre-arranged photo session. There are many other loopholes in the RAW story. I am giving just an analysis of that story. But, the Indians do not like to hear. They want to send me to a mental asylum. Yes, I will go to one such asylum, but only to visit these Indians as patients.


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## SMC

> Yes, the GoP had to accept responsibility under pressure from the USA of President Bush.


 That's actually an angle I never thought from. That's a plausible explanation for GoP so quickly accept involvement of LeT given the evidence provided by india in the dossier was absolute garbage. Now I still believe that it was LeT behind the attacks but this just added a new dimension to the conspiracy theory making it more consistent.

What I will additionally say is what I posted on another forum so people don't carried away by my use of the phrase conspiracy theory.

There's nothing really wrong with suggesting that there is a conspiracy as long as there are no loop holes in the theory and it makes sense. Evidence will be hard to find because as in any conspiracy, the evidence will be erased as much as it can be.

Trying to shut up people by simply calling them conspiracy theorist and nothing else is a desperate way to try to evade their points. Trying to find loop holes in the theory and lack of logic and sense is a better way to go about it.


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## deckingraj

> I am giving just an analysis of that story. But, the Indians do not like to hear. They want to send me to a mental asylum. Yes, I will go to one such asylum, but only to visit these Indians as patients.



 hahahah.... u almost made me fall from my chair...Though rest of your post is just rant but i liked this part the most...very funny


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## SMC

Now that's a good one. How did I miss that.


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## SMC

You mean india in the form of TTP?

Additionally, this is a poor attempt at diversion.


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## ek_indian

eastwatch said:


> Yes, the GoP had to accept responsibility under pressure from the USA of President Bush. All those exchanges of notes, blames, refusal of blames are only public stunts. Even if Bombay was organized by LeT of Pakistan, is it then the responsibility of GoP? It is certainly not.



Are you suggesting that GoP accepted that this operation is related to Pakistan under USA pressure? This means entire Pakistan is USA puppet as this is clear example of loosing sovereignty.

As please read carefully. I never talked about state involvement. I said this was partially done from Pakistan soil.



eastwatch said:


> But, both the countries are exchanging notes or blames fully knowing the truth, i.e, the Bombay carnage was organized by Hindu terrorists and their main target was to eliminate Police Officer Karkare.



Did you bother to read previous posts. I guess you did not.



eastwatch said:


> It is possible that somehow the Indian LeT has infiltrated the Hindu outfit, but it is physically impossible for their gangs to come from Karachi. Their planning, as has been described by the GoI, cannot be implemented. Even James Bond would not go for such a long voyage, when other easier methods were available.



Since GoP has already accepted that some of the people are Pakistani therefore all this becomes invalid.



eastwatch said:


> There was a sea voyage, but it was not from Karachi, but from somewhere in the Indian south. A sea voyage was needed to avoid road checkings on their way to Bombay, where Karkare was working to expose Hindu terrorism sponsored by a group of military people.



I again suggest you to read posts regarding Karkare. Hallucination has its own characteristics.



eastwatch said:


> By the way, I have seen many photographs showing Kasab and a few other *south Indian-looking *terrorists. The pictures were taken from outside a transparent glass panel or a glass door. If these were taken from a distant, then it is obvious that they could also have been killed by the army shooters with guns fitted with telescopes. But, they were not killed.



Many south-Indian terrorists are already accepted as Pakistani national by the concerned government.



eastwatch said:


> I have seen security people, with pot belly, shooting at them from behind parked cars. But, then who took the photographs of the terrorists, and how it was possible when the photographers themselves could have been killed? Do not you see that all these were set ups?



Perhaps there are two different things media and security!!



eastwatch said:


> Photographers were not killed. Why? Because, their objects were all models of a pre-arranged photo session. There are many other loopholes in the RAW story. I am giving just an analysis of that story. But, the Indians do not like to hear. They want to send me to a mental asylum. Yes, I will go to one such asylum, but only to visit these Indians as patients.



Thank you for informative post. BTW, these hotels has inside cameras also. 
Just for fun, you consider loopholes I RAW story. I consider them most successful as they did something and made some government to own it. I must say omnipotent.


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## vkurian

No one is to blame....

There is so much depression and hopelessness in Pakistan that they are eager to listen to some good news or to get some hope from a hopeless situation. This is true with any individual in any part of the world.

Zaid Hamid all said and done is a smart chap all he does to take all situation cook it over anti India flame and garnish it with CIA, RAW and MOSSAD and top it with verses from the holy Koran. Generally liberal servings of quotes from poet Iqbal is also served as a side dish.

Desperate Pakistani people lap it up to satisfy their hunger for good news meanwhile Hamidbhai laughs all the way to bank. I like his sense of timing as he just manages to cook up different dishes with the same ingredients just to the liking of masses and depending on the given situation. This is a rare ability and one should appreciate it.


The upside for Pakistan is the masses can at least live happily listening to these stories till the inevitable hits them hard. The wait can be agonizing if there is no one to sooth your nerve.

The only down side I see to it is Indians commenting and counter commenting and wasting their time thereby bring the national productivity down.


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## SMC

Definitely. That's why indians should leave this forum.


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## manojb

I watched this all episodes.. I have few comments..

1) Regarding host , I have no words.. I will borrow from this article 
_"The explosion in TV channels in Urdu, English and regional languages has brought to the fore large numbers of largely untrained, semi-educated and unworldly TV talk show hosts and journalists who deem it necessary to win viewership at a time of an acute advertising crunch, by being more outrageous and sensational than the next channel."_ Link here *BBC News - Ahmed Rashid: Pakistan conspiracy theories stifle debate*

2) Regarding ZH, he has grown up in last one year. Last year he said Ajmal Kasab is amaer singh.. Now he says there are many pakistani in Indian custody who can be placed as evidence.. which could have made sense. That's more like a analysts talk Neverthless ZH accepts Ajmal Kasab as Pakistani  Apart from that everything is old ranting raw-mosad-rss nexus.


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## normalindiancitizen

This is I think a classic example of how 'vested interests' use mass histeria to fuel personal interests. I am an Indian and I KNOW how the INDIAN govt agencies work. Its is unimaginable that an Indian agency like RAW can have ANY hand in targetting Indians on the scale claimed. 
Well accept it guys, both sides invest in terrorism accross the border, but only on a limited scale. But trying to say that we are responsible for 26/11 is absurd, any Indian would tell you that. I really appeal to pakistanis to see reason and not blindly support this man's theories. No one in India is blaming or allegin that Pakistan as a nation has planned out hese attacks, but it is possible that certain elements may have done it in the ignorance of the leadership. And when things blew up, left the sinking boat. But that that. Just a view.


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## Hulk

Guys there is no point discussing this with people who will come up with excuse on everything. Look these guys do not even take their own governments words as proofs and come up with explanation that it is done under US pressure. This is one of the most horrible explanation. No matter how much we argue, what is happening is that we have been countered with only conspiracy and no facts. One cannot discuss when people have preconceived notions and closed their minds. 

On one hand they refute involvement on 26/11 even after GOP accepted it and facts are there for the world to see. 

On other hand they keep saying India has hand in everything bad happening in Pak and does not even care to give evidence.

Hypocrisy at the highest level. A simple analogy is related to cricket where some people with bully mentality will say I am not out even when there stumps are out of ground.

We should lay some rules for debate and then debate accordingly, otherwise what is happening is threads are getting spoiled on useless arguments.

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## ouiouiouiouiouioui

comedy...


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## SMC

The questions being raised are not a conspiracy theory however. None have been answered by these continuous rants by indians.

Regarding Ahmed Rashid, he is right in the sense that there are too many conspiracy theories particularly the US and Israeli angles. All he does in his article however is complain about them which is not worth listening to.

Regarding the US pressure angle, I don't see how you can say that's a terrible explanation. It's a plausible explanation. If it was indeed a conspiracy (I am not saying it is, I believe LeT was behind it) then it would be consistent with the theory.

As far as facts go, all the evidence provided to Pakistan by indian government was equivalent to garbage. Yes you might bring up Kasab, but the rest of the garbage provided in the dossier is NOT evidence.

And let me again mention that there is nothing wrong with a conspiracy theory if there are no loop holes in the story.

Let me mention it again. Questions being raised in the video are important and have not been answered. Trying to shut up people by calling them conspiracy theorists will not answer them.


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## manojb

Ahsan_R said:


> As far as facts go, all the evidence provided to Pakistan by indian government was equivalent to garbage. Yes you might bring up Kasab, but the rest of the garbage provided in the dossier is NOT evidence.



The host rebuffs the shaving cream in rubber dingy and clearly ignores the Yamaha engine fitted to dingy exported to Pakistan from Japan. Dinghy engine was sent to Pak: Yamaha official . Clearly that is no garbage evidence ..!


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## SMC

Now when did that become part of the dossier? 

anyways as far as the engine, that's a complete bullshit explanation. 

The difference between Automotive and Marine Engines - Performance Product Technologies

http://boatfix.com/how/marineeng.html

Motorcycle engines will NOT work with boats or whatever that was used to reach india in water. Forget reaching india through waters starting off from Pakistani waters (clearly questioning that would be a conspiracy theory), I am surprised people are willing to buy whatever governments say without ever questioning it, especially something as obvious as this.

Giving evidence like this only makes conspiracy theories stronger.


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## manojb

Ahsan_R said:


> Now when did that become part of the dossier?
> 
> anyways as far as the engine, that's a complete bullshit explanation.
> 
> The difference between Automotive and Marine Engines - Performance Product Technologies
> 
> Motorcycle engines will NOT work with boats or whatever that was used to reach india in water. Forget reaching india through waters starting off from Pakistani waters (clearly questioning that would be a conspiracy theory), I am surprised people are willing to buy whatever governments say without ever questioning it, especially something as obvious as this.
> 
> Giving evidence like this only makes conspiracy theories stronger.



Dude you are making fun of yourself.. I am really  If you don't know, then don't post. I guess you never seen a powered boat in your life..


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## SMC

So you did not answer anything and went on a childish rant. It doesn't require experience with boats to see through ****.


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## Iggy

Ahsan_R said:


> Now when did that become part of the dossier?
> 
> anyways as far as the engine, that's a complete bullshit explanation.
> 
> The difference between Automotive and Marine Engines - Performance Product Technologies
> 
> differences between automotive and marine engines
> 
> Motorcycle engines will NOT work with boats or whatever that was used to reach india in water. Forget reaching india through waters starting off from Pakistani waters (clearly questioning that would be a conspiracy theory), I am surprised people are willing to buy whatever governments say without ever questioning it, especially something as obvious as this.
> 
> Giving evidence like this only makes conspiracy theories stronger.



Man Yamaha not only make bike engines but also boat engines too among other things..did you read the link he gave you..I will point out some interesting exracts 


The witness, who deposed via video-conferencing from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) headquarters in Los Angeles, stated that on January 20, 2008 *the out boat machine was shipped to a dealer in Karachi from the companys office in Japan*. The witness, whose identity has not been revealed for security reasons, was the first international witness to depose in the special court via video-conferencing. 

Do we need to say more???

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## SMC

Ok maybe you got me.  I indeed assumed that it was a motorcycle engine.


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## Iggy

Ahsan_R said:


> Ok maybe you got me.  I indeed assumed that it was a motorcycle engine.



No problems mistakes happens  lets get back to each others hair picking


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## manojb

Ahsan_R said:


> So you did not answer anything and went on a childish rant. It doesn't require experience with boats to see through ****.


 Ok I will not drag this further, Yamaha also makes Marine engines. The engine in discussion is Marine engine and NOT Motorcycle engine. I am sorry I couldnt control  with your previous post. Have a nice day  

Here is a gyan for you : You know Yamaha is originally piano mfg company? Later they ventured to motorcycle. The three stick in their logo is a tuning fork !


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## SMC

Now this is just funny.  You were talking about boats being modified and me never having rode one. So you didn't know Yamaha made marine engines.  You would have mentioned that first if you knew.


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## Iggy

Ahsan_R said:


> Now this is just funny.  You were talking about boats being modified and me never having rode one. So you didn't know Yamaha made marine engines.  You would have mentioned that first if you knew.



Sorry for not intelligent as you..can you please elaborate what are you trying to say??


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## SMC

Essentially he said I didnt know that Yamaha made boat engines, while not knowing himself that either.


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## Iggy

Ahsan_R said:


> Essentially he said I didnt know that Yamaha made boat engines, while not knowing himself that either.



Dude look at post # 90..He knows it was a marine engine by Yamaha thats why he was talking like that ..

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## Sarang

Please see the must watch documentary by Dan Reed's on Mumbai Attacks: "Terror in Mumbai - Dispatches" co-produced by Channel 4 and HBO. 

Terror in Mumbai - Part I 

Apologies for not having found a better link but this one is on some hard core rightwing website/TV channel.... so please try and focus on the content and ignore the form.

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## SMC

Ok I will not go into who has the bigger penis contest except saying that if he did know that he would have said it, he was talking like the boats can indeed be modified to run motorcycle enginers.


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## gogbot

why are any Indians giving this thread attention.


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## deckingraj

*Lakhvi charged, Kasab proclaimed offender in Mumbai attacks case*

*A Pakistani anti-terror court on Wednesday framed charges against LeT&#8217;s operations commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi and six others for involvement in the Mumbai attacks and declared 16 people, including Ajmal Amir Kasab, as proclaimed offenders.*

Judge Malik Muhammad Akram Awan, who is conducting the trial at Adiala Jail in Rawalpindi for security reasons, formally charged the seven suspects, sources said, adding the accused protested against their indictment.

*They said the judge also rejected bail plea of some of the accused, besides declaring 16 people as proclaimed offenders.*

Among those declared proclaimed offenders is Kasab, the lone terrorist captured alive during the 26/11 strikes, and crew members of the two boats used by the attackers, sources said.

The indictment of the seven suspects by the Pakistani court came on the eve of the first anniversary of the attacks that had left 183 people dead.

*During the proceedings of the case earlier on Monday, lawyers defending the seven suspects had demanded that Kasab be brought to Pakistan to face trial with the other accused.*

They had said that since Kasab was the lone surviving attacker and his confession to Indian authorities formed a crucial part of the case built up by Pakistani authorities against their clients, he should be brought to Pakistan to face trial.

The Hindu : News / National : Lakhvi charged, Kasab proclaimed offender in Mumbai attacks case


*******************************************************************************************************************

I would like to see what Zaid Hamid has to say about the above development...Wait a minute he would say Pakistani Courts did this under American Pressure...right???


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## SMC

Most likely. It would be consistent with the conspiracy theory.


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## Iggy

gogbot said:


> why are any Indians giving this thread attention.



Because its the least thing we can do for honoring our martyrs..Don't let them become a joke of some one's conspiracy theories..They died for our country and we wont allow some idiot like Zaid Hamid make fun of them by saying that they were killed by Hindu terrorists...and also we can clear some misconception in the mind of some members who are willing to hear...

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## tamir

Totally disgusting what these lunatics did. This needs to be aired in Pakistan, so the common people sympathetic to these terrorists see what this achieves.... Loss of innocent lives!! That truly is a great cause to pursue. 

Thank you Sarang for this post. 

Usually forum members pounce on threads with comments but nothing so far on this.

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## vnomad

One can download the whole thing from:

http://www.mininova.org/get/2729257

Its got better quality than the streaming video.

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## sarthak

idune said:


> Your media and govt fed you bull crap and your are still living in it. Bangaldeshis did india a big favor by seperated from india's enemy. So show some gratitude.
> 
> Regardless what you bringing up is not an argument for the topic but misrable failure to hide indian involvement in terrorism.



From your comments , it is more than clear that you are not fit for an intellectual discussion. 
Anyway, you really are a character. I bet you don't understand anything that's been said in the videos. If you just want to speak something , there are thousands of chatrooms on the internet full of bored people there. Try your luck there cause i bet that no one here takes you seriously. 
Thanx for the lols anyway

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## Barrett

Listen to this, I'm sure it will give a better understanding of things.

Radio: Amaresh Misra & Ahmed Quraishi on Chicago?s ABN Radio Pak Alert Press


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## deckingraj

> Most likely. It would be consistent with the conspiracy theory.


Not going into rights or wrongs but what you are saying is a very serious charge...Not only you are challenging the credibility of your government...you are also challenging the credibility of your courts which by far is free and fair in both the countries....So consider your comments again...otherwise please continue the debate...

I just wanted to share some news related to the topic


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## graphican

dezi said:


> How many followers actually believe in this CIA-Mossad-RAW conspiracy theory?... Maybe this Zaid guy needs to start his own political party... with the number of youtube hits on his rants on TV. He will lead to a complete destruction of Pakistan I am sure.



Or will save the country. You guys hate him and this aspect suggests something.


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## arihant

graphican said:


> Or will save the country. You guys hate him and this aspect suggests something.



We don't hate him. We laungh him. Actually we are more happy and hope you got bulk of such guys so that you can only dream.


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## SMC

deckingraj said:


> Not going into rights or wrongs but what you are saying is a very serious charge...Not only you are challenging the credibility of your government...you are also challenging the credibility of your courts which by far is free and fair in both the countries....So consider your comments again...otherwise please continue the debate...
> 
> I just wanted to share some news related to the topic



I don't believe it was done by RAW or CIA. I believe it was done by LeT. My point was that to say that Pakistan was pressured to charge these people would be consistent with the conspiracy theory.


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## Khajur

Here is the complete docu series giving the chilling accounts of 26/11 attacks in mumbai... its original name "*Terror in Mumbai - Dispatches*" by Channel 4 , has been changed by those who uploaded it. 

TruthTube. tv&#160;&#160; 1/5 DISPATCHES ISLAMIC TERROR IN MUMBAI PART 1 OF 5 Video

TruthTube. tv&#160;&#160; 2/5 DISPATCHES ISLAMIC TERROR IN MUMBAI PART 2 OF 5 Video

TruthTube. tv&#160;&#160; 3/5 DISPATCHES ISLAMIC TERROR IN MUMBAI PART 3 OF 5 Video


TruthTube. tv&#160;&#160; 4/5 DISPATCHES ISLAMIC TERROR IN MUMBAI PART 4 OF 5 Video

TruthTube. tv&#160;&#160; 5/5 DISPATCHES ISLAMIC TERROR IN MUMBAI PART 5 Video


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## RobbieS

Ahsan_R said:


> I don't believe it was done by RAW or CIA. I believe it was done by LeT. My point was that to say that Pakistan was pressured to charge these people would be consistent with the conspiracy theory.



You are right there Ahsan. There must have been considerable pressure on GoP from US and the general INternational community. 

But I guess you and I would differ on whether the pressure yielded/will yield into tangible results or not.


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## MZUBAIR

RobbieS said:


> You are right there Ahsan. There must have been considerable pressure on GoP from US and the general INternational community.
> 
> But I guess you and I would differ on whether the pressure yielded/will yield into tangible results or not.


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## MZUBAIR

I think, there is no prove against Hafiz Saeed.
So no court in the world consiter him culprit.


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## MZUBAIR




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## RobbieS

MZUBAIR said:


>



Zubair, could you please translate that for the benefit of the non Urdu speakers?

Thanks!


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## BlackSonic

MZUBAIR said:


> I think, there is no prove against Hafiz Saeed.
> So no court in the world consiter him culprit.



Interpol issues Red Corner notice against Hafiz Saeed - India - The Times of India

Wait..... please don't believe India Media...

Here is Pakistani Media

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Interpol issues red notice against Hafiz Saeed

Wait..... ofcourse .. this is some kind of conspiracy.


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## Barrett

So why did Kavita, Karkare's wife refused to take compensation ? oh yeah Zaid hamid might have brain washed her as well. I'm sure you Indians can't answer Zaid Hamid's questions for obvious reasons but how about you answer some of Kavita's Questions.

...The earliest reports, presumably relayed from the police via the media, said that Karkare had been killed at the Taj, and Salaskar and Kamte at Metro. If this was not true, why were we told this? And why was the story later changed? Was it because it conflicted with eyewitness accounts? Indeed, under the heading ATS Chief Hemant Karkare Killed: His Last Pics, IBN live showed footage first of Karkare putting on a helmet and bullet-proof vest, and then a shootout at Metro, where an unconscious man who looks like Karkare and wearing the same light blue shirt and dark trousers (but without any blood on his shirt or the terrible wounds we saw on his face at his funeral) is being pulled into a car by two youths in saffron shirts...

Is there a lead in this that newspapers should ideally follow? Or is it to be dismissed as wild rant of a few perennially disgruntled people? In which case how do we place the latest embarrassing question posed by Kavita Karkare?


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## ssheppard

Still reading conspiracy theories....


Your Government has been indicting Pakistani Citizens for Being a part of 26 11 ....but you still don't want to believe that Pakistanis are involved....

The Hindu : Front Page : Pakistan indicts Lakhvi, six others


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## Dark Angel

Ahsan_R said:


> ^^ If what they are suggesting is true, then the truth cannot hide forever from the world.
> 
> As far as the video goes, lots of interesting questions raised which aren't answered and have been ignored while lot of shocking revelations (such as Israel commandoes helping india in Kargil).



Are u living in a world of Illusion Israel commandoes helping india in Kargil ? where did u get that weird idea.Israel provided the drones UAVs used in the war if u have a link please post saying that commandoes from israel landed in India during that time..


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## ssheppard

Anything is possible in Za-ha land....

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## Barrett

Not to my surprise, none of the indians have anything relevant to say about the questions raised by Amaresh Misra in his radio interview or to the questions put forward by the wife of Karkare.


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## Chanakyaa

Well If what the Man in the Video is Correct why is GoP taking all the pain to move on the lines as India wants them to?

They seem to have found several things in support to Indian claims , Kasab in India has been Admitted by GOP and Then how can any one Buy His story which is even worse to be called a story ?

And how do we explain this ? ::

WHICH VOICE IN PAKISTAN IS CORRECT ??







YOUR EX-PM and Existing Ruling Party Supporter Mr. Sharrif says This ::






And This One too ...






Even I can sit on India TV and make my own version of any Event in the world.
Perhaps some Aliens attacked Mumbai is a far better story.


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## SMC

Dark Angel said:


> Are u living in a world of Illusion Israel commandoes helping india in Kargil ? where did u get that weird idea.Israel provided the drones UAVs used in the war if u have a link please post saying that commandoes from israel landed in India during that time..



This was said by Israeli ambassador himself. It was said in the Zaid Hamid video and he quoted an interview with outlook magazine in early 2008. You could look that interview up.


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## StingRoy

Ahsan_R said:


> This was said by Israeli ambassador himself. It was said in the Zaid Hamid video and he quoted an interview with outlook magazine in early 2008. You could look that interview up.



Mr Ahsan_R, you need to get your facts straight and not just form opinions on the dictator of Pakistan Zaid Hamid. India and Israel help each other in intelligence and in some military logistics. It is same if we start blaming that Chinese army was fighting on Pakistan soil during the Kargil war just because Pakistan army gets logistical help from Chinese military. Bottomline... pointless and baseless argument.


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## Hulk

By the way let's get back to topic. As per Zaid Hamid is concerned, I can give an anology why people belive in him. When he talk, he creates such an enviornmemt that people gets emotionally attached. The attachment is totally driven by emotion and very few people care to ask is there a proof of what he is saying. They feel so convinced that they shut door to all logic. You can compare this with religious stories, while beliver vouch for it for non beliver it might be devoid of logic. So it is matter of belief with Zaid then truth.


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## SMC

dezi said:


> Mr Ahsan_R, you need to get your facts straight and not just form opinions on the dictator of Pakistan Zaid Hamid. India and Israel help each other in intelligence and in some military logistics. It is same if we start blaming that Chinese army was fighting on Pakistan soil during the Kargil war just because Pakistan army gets logistical help from Chinese military. Bottomline... pointless and baseless argument.



That did not answer the point. It's not an opinion that Israel helped india, Zaid Hamid is quoting Israeli official in india. Now I myself find that sort of hard to believe but he was speaking about that with confdience - not only that, he was quoting an indian magazine. Yes most of what he says is opinion, this did not seem like opinion.


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## SMC

indianrabbit said:


> By the way let's get back to topic. As per Zaid Hamid is concerned, I can give an anology why people belive in him. When he talk, he creates such an enviornmemt that people gets emotionally attached. The attachment is totally driven by emotion and very few people care to ask is there a proof of what he is saying. They feel so convinced that they shut door to all logic. You can compare this with religious stories, while beliver vouch for it for non beliver it might be devoid of logic. So it is matter of belief with Zaid then truth.



It's kind of illogical to believe that people were able to reach Mumbai from Karachi (more importantly getting into indian waters without detection) while over 2 days in sea. It's further illogical to believe that people trained to fly paper planes can fly jumbo jets, that a building can fall (WTC 7) from debris of WTC towers, or that the USAF was too late to intercept the hijacked planes, among other things. Just think about it man. People are being fed illogical stuff all the time yet they are taken as facts.


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## ssheppard

Ahsan_R said:


> It's kind of illogical to believe that people were able to reach Mumbai from Karachi (more importantly getting into indian waters without detection) while over 2 days in sea. It's further illogical to believe that people trained to fly paper planes can fly jumbo jets, that a building can fall (WTC 7) from debris of WTC towers, or that the USAF was too late to intercept the hijacked planes, among other things. Just think about it man. People are being fed illogical stuff all the time yet they are taken as facts.



Let me help you with some logics.....

A terrorist by the name of Ajmal Kasabh is alive ... under trial in India and ....7 terrorists are under trial in Pakistan .....for the most illogicsal reasons according to you.....


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## SMC

You are taking a diversion from my point and going on a childish rant. Oh well, what did I expect from a child.


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## ssheppard

Ahsan_R said:


> You are taking a diversion from my point and going on a childish rant. Oh well, what did I expect from a child.



Anyone who refutes your great logic is declared as a child........how thats for a child like behavior.....


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## SMC

You are not looking at my logic but rather presuming things as they are given to you. As for the child part, that's because you did not counter it but just diverted it.


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## mosnsg

Only zaid hamid & his followers talk logically  but their misfortune is tht even GOP dosnt buy zaid hamid's kids stories.


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## Foster

mosnsg said:


> Only zaid hamid & his followers talk logically  but their misfortune is tht even GOP dosnt buy zaid hamid's kids stories.



zaid hamid's kids stories

->Kasab The amar singh 
->p@k!$tan on m00n...
->We will be superpower in next 5 yrz
-> 9/11 done by americans itself
-> 26/11 done India itself
->India is fool
-> india is very clever 

all based on one theme

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## atleast_a_bronze

Ahsan_R said:


> The questions being raised are not a conspiracy theory however. None have been answered by these continuous rants by indians.
> 
> Regarding Ahmed Rashid, he is right in the sense that there are too many conspiracy theories particularly the US and Israeli angles. All he does in his article however is complain about them which is not worth listening to.
> 
> Regarding the US pressure angle, I don't see how you can say that's a terrible explanation. It's a plausible explanation. If it was indeed a conspiracy (I am not saying it is, I believe LeT was behind it) then it would be consistent with the theory.
> 
> As far as facts go, all the evidence provided to Pakistan by indian government was equivalent to garbage. Yes you might bring up Kasab, but the rest of the garbage provided in the dossier is NOT evidence.
> 
> And let me again mention that there is nothing wrong with a conspiracy theory if there are no loop holes in the story.
> 
> Let me mention it again. Questions being raised in the video are important and have not been answered. Trying to shut up people by calling them conspiracy theorists will not answer them.




Consp Theory 1- Pak Govt was pressured by the US to accept 26/11 as handwork of Pakistani terrorists and Qasab as Pakistani national -
This is like saying if US govt fixes blame on Indian PM Manmohan Singh for 9/11 and Indian govt starts trying Manmohan Singh in courts.
Pakistan has a govt/judiciary in place. It has indicted 7 terrorists on the basis of compelling evidence presented to it and to the international community. If the evidence accepted by the world and Pakistan is something of a joke to you, you must be in an alien state of mind.

If the govt/judiciary is trying these terrorists under US pressure, then common, you must be making a mockery of your govt and judiciary in an esteemed international forum like this. It's like selling your country's credibility.
Such a govt/country can be deemed as totally of unreliable/undependable standing in the international community and such a govt can be manipulated to any extent by any organization /country.


Consp Theory 2 - Karkare killed by RAW/Indian agents- 

People like Karkare/Kamte died cause of improper coordination/planning of the operations and under-preparedness to take on the attack of this nature, just as the Pak police response to scores of terrorist attacks happening daily in Pakistan in which innocent brave Pakistani policemen are killed. The public and media as is free in Pakistan/India can raise tons of doubts on each of these killings. Does that mean these policemen were framed by Pakistani govt in collusion with terrorists?


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## Foster

Zaid hamid and ISI killed Banzeer.....


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## KSRaj

Ahsan_R said:


> It's kind of illogical to believe that people were able to reach Mumbai from Karachi (more importantly getting into indian waters without detection) while over 2 days in sea. It's further illogical to believe that people trained to fly paper planes can fly jumbo jets, that a building can fall (WTC 7) from debris of WTC towers, or that the USAF was too late to intercept the hijacked planes, among other things. Just think about it man. People are being fed illogical stuff all the time yet they are taken as facts.



Ahsan_R,
Just like you do, let me ask you a on-topic + relevant + sensible + *logical * question.

Does "Gravity" exists according to you?


----------



## Barrett

why aren't the indians answering to the questions of kavita karkare and amaresh misra ? ive posted the questions put forward by them earlier, but i'm sure none of you will even try to answer and keep on ranting zaid hamid.


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## gogbot

Barrett said:


> why aren't the indians answering to the questions of kavita karkare and amaresh misra ? ive posted the questions put forward by them earlier, but i'm sure none of you will even try to answer and keep on ranting zaid hamid.



This is the only response to your so called questions.

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## Barrett

gogbot said:


> This is the only response to your so called questions.



Fortunately or unfortunately those are not my questions. I'm neither Kavita Karkare nor Amaresh Mishra

But one thing that is very obvious is that you don't have an answer to any of those questions


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## Hulk

Let me try creating a logic for 26/11 Indian hand.
1) RAW bought Kasab and others from Pakistan. RAW paid handsome amount to his father to tell lies.
2) RAW bought 2 Pakistani's in Italy.
3) RAW, CIA and FBI planned the attack.
4) Pakistani Government admitted under pressure from USA.

All the above sounds logical right?

Now your questions.
1) Why the ship got undetected, ever heard of smuggling, it was done frequently via sea.


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## gogbot

indianrabbit said:


> Let me try creating a logic for 26/11 Indian hand.
> 1) RAW bought Kasab and others from Pakistan. RAW paid handsome amount to his father to tell lies.
> 2) RAW bought 2 Pakistani's in Italy.
> 3) RAW, CIA and FBI planned the attack.
> 4) Pakistani Government admitted under pressure from USA.
> 
> All the above sounds logical right?
> 
> Now your questions.
> 1) Why the ship got undetected, ever heard of smuggling, it was done frequently via sea.



Don't encourage them

They have a BS argument, but the good thing about BS arguments is that You can always add more BS to keep it going.

You pointing out the sane and Obvious to them, will just get them to make more **** up.

seriously there is only one response to these kind of arguments.

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## SMC

KSRaj said:


> Ahsan_R,
> Just like you do, let me ask you a on-topic + relevant + sensible + *logical * question.
> 
> Does "Gravity" exists according to you?



Yes. What's your point?

---------- Post added at 12:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 PM ----------




gogbot said:


> This is the only response to your so called questions.



Facepalm doesn't answer an unanswered question dumbass.

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## SMC

indianrabbit said:


> Now your questions.
> 1) Why the ship got undetected, ever heard of smuggling, it was done frequently via sea.



Now you're talking. As for smuggling are you sure it happened on India-Pak sea borders? More over, no fisherman crosses from one sea area to the other. They get caught within minutes, on boats probably as small as the one LeT alleged to have used.


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## KSRaj

Ahsan_R said:


> Now you're talking. As for smuggling are you sure it happened on India-Pak sea borders? More over, no fisherman crosses from one sea area to the other. They get caught within minutes, on boats probably as small as the one LeT alleged to have used.




Ahsan_R,
How can you be so sure that Gravity exists? What one earth made you believe that Gravity exists?


To other posters,
This is the level of stupidity being parroted as "logic". If this crap was not being uttered for something so tragic, then maybe we could have taken it with some humour. Lets not trivialize tragedies by trying to convince who do not want to be convinced. It will only result in more crap.


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## Spring Onion

Indians wake up and smell the cofee


http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/40076-headley-american-agent-who-turned-rogue.html


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## Iggy

Jana said:


> Indians wake up and smell the cofee
> 
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/40076-headley-american-agent-who-turned-rogue.html



Some one ranked it low so hope you got the idea 

And one more question from when did ToI become credible for you??


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## SMC

KSRaj said:


> Ahsan_R,
> How can you be so sure that Gravity exists? What one earth made you believe that Gravity exists?



I really don't know what you're trying to prove here. How can I be sure that gravity exists? Well I would be flying away if it didn't, just like it happens in the space.


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## KSRaj

Ahsan_R said:


> I really don't know what you're trying to prove here. How can I be sure that gravity exists? Well I would be flying away if it didn't, just like it happens in the space.



Thank you so much for answering. 

I have always believed that no person can be completely void of logical reasoning. Your last answer has proven me right, that in some quiet corner of every human mind, the ability to comprehend and reason, do exist. Thank you once again.


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## SMC

Logical reasoning supports the 4 hypothesis I put forward, mainly having a hard time believing that people in a dingy can reach India from Pakistani waters, or people that have flown paper airplanes only can fly jumbo jets and the other two after that.


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## Hulk

It was not the attack itself but the response and continued response from Pakistan has created a trust deficit between the countries. If playing games is what you want so be it.


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## Barrett

Posting pics is the best you can do ?

Maybe they don't have anything else to say ....


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## Iggy

Ahsan_R said:


> Logical reasoning supports the 4 hypothesis I put forward, mainly having a hard time believing that people in a dingy can reach India from Pakistani waters, or people that have flown paper airplanes only can fly jumbo jets and the other two after that.



Ahsan they travelled in a small boat and captured one fishing boat from India and killed its passengers.through it they reached mumbai..As you know we are not 10,000 mile apart .you can see lots of fishermen were caught crossing the border between our countries so we can assume that with the help of GPS and proper training they can do it easily..And as for choosing this kind of attack..it was a first to that kind of attack anywhere in the world.Before that we only see suicide bombers and planting bombs in some crowded areas..But commando like attack was first of its kind.Indian police were not trained for such a kind of attack ,in fact i am not sure they were trained for any kind of attack and there were lot of confusion occurred in the police circle..They were confused about how many people even landed in Mumbai ..


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## Iggy

Barrett said:


> Posting pics is the best you can do ?
> 
> Maybe they don't have anything else to say ....



Barret as i said the Mumbai police were very confused they didn't know what to do..They were not trained for that kind of attacks and as told by one police officer in a special report last week there were about 1500 calls come to the control room about people calling from different parts of Mumbai about possible terrorist spotted in their area and The police were not taking any chances so they were sending personal everywhere..So may be in that confusion error can be possible in informing the media..


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## SMC

But again, you are avoiding the important part. How were they able to get into indian waters to the point that they were able to kill the fishermen? I am willing to buy the whole story that indians have put forward except this part and few others, this part being the most important. We may not be that far apart but they would have to be in indian waters for 2 straight days.


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## Barrett

seiko said:


> Barret as i said the Mumbai police were very confused they didn't know what to do..They were not trained for that kind of attacks and as told by one police officer in a special report last week there were about 1500 calls come to the control room about people calling from different parts of Mumbai about possible terrorist spotted in their area and The police were not taking any chances so they were sending personal everywhere..So may be in that confusion error can be possible in informing the media..



Brother i guess you didn't bother reading the post and the questions of Kavita, confusingly reporting an information is something else and vest disappearing and showing a different body, blood disappearing etc are two completely different things so at least someone tried answering the questions unlike the fellow country men .... I will be really happy to see some more mature arguments being put forward instead of pics being posted, in reply to Kavita's questions and the interview of Amaresh Misra 

http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2008/12/21/radio-amaresh-misra-ahmed-quraishi-on-chicago-abn-radio/


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## mgmech

Ahsan_R said:


> But again, you are avoiding the important part. How were they able to get into indian waters to the point that they were able to kill the fishermen? I am willing to buy the whole story that indians have put forward except this part and few others, this part being the most important. We may not be that far apart but they would have to be in indian waters for 2 straight days.



it was a failure on the part of the indian intelligence and failure of India's maritime security... thats just it...
even border is secured and in a much much much more better manner than the coastal waters...still there is infiltration...? that does not mean India is first sending them across border and than asking them to infiltrate..or does it..????? NO it does not....

if the highly secured indo-pak border can be infiltrated than surely the far from satisfactory coastal security at that time(now it is being improved) can surely be breached......

u must be able to differentiate between commom fisherman unknowingly getting into indian waters and getting caught... and some highly trained terrorists deliberately finding out the loopholes in not so full proof maritime security and taking advantage of them....

the point is that innocent fisherman who have no idea about security features get caught easily..... but the terrorists who came were not simple ppl... they were highly trained ppl... they examined everything carefully and took advantage of the loopholes in the indian maritime security... nothing is fool proof.... and they took advantage of it... that is why govt of India is now making all out efforts to improve coastal security which is a step in the right direction......

the terrorsist have been convicted in Pakistan... i dont think pak judiciary will prosecute innocents...

Kasab's father himself accepted his son... no father can fall so low so as to call his own son as terrorist without it being a reality.....

i hope u now understand that coastal security was not full proof so that it cannot be breached by well trained terrorists, who found out all the loopholes in the security and took advantage of them.....


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## Iggy

Ahsan_R said:


> But again, you are avoiding the important part. How were they able to get into indian waters to the point that they were able to kill the fishermen? I am willing to buy the whole story that indians have put forward except this part and few others, this part being the most important. We may not be that far apart but they would have to be in indian waters for 2 straight days.



Buddy the sea border between our countries is very big and Indian navy nor Pakistan navy cannot guard the entire area..The fisher men who were captured by both navies will only be the 1/10 th who cross the border there are lot of smuggling also going on between our countrymen through these channels..Its a known fact that no navy can guard the entire water of a country..For eg US has the most sophisticated gadgets than any one in the world but they were not able to stop the illegal immigrants coming from Cuba and other Latin American countries and also from Asia through water..Hope you get a general idea...Another example is Somalian pirates navies all over the world now tries to stop them then also they got success in capturing ships and taking them hostages ...


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## Iggy

Barrett said:


> Brother i guess you didn't bother reading the post and the questions of Kavita, confusingly reporting an information is something else and vest disappearing and showing a different body, blood disappearing etc are two completely different things so at least someone tried answering the questions unlike the fellow country men .... I will be really happy to see some more mature arguments being put forward instead of pics being posted, in reply to Kavita's questions and the interview of Amaresh Misra
> 
> Radio: Amaresh Misra & Ahmed Quraishi on Chicago?s ABN Radio Pak Alert Press





Buddy i also see that footage Karkare was wearing a bullet proof jacket and helmet but only after that the shoot out in Cama happened and they went there and on the way they got ambushed..I saw his body been carried away but i am not sure that they were saffron men but footage was unable to show his face so we are not sure where he was hit..After he got killed the IBN began to show the footage of Karkares last moment wearing helmet and bullet proof west because *its the last thing they recorded about Karkare* vest disappearing has more to do with utter chaos happened in the hospital and with the police because of lots of injured and dead people coming to the hospital..No body can concentrate on one person..Another possibility is that there is a scam about buying those low standard vest and it will result in the punishment of some persons ..They may be responsible for the disappearance of the vest


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## Bhaarat

Generally, I am impressed by Zaid Hamid, but this time he is off the mark.


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## Barrett

seiko said:


> Buddy i also see that footage Karkare was wearing a bullet proof jacket and helmet but only after that the shoot out in Cama happened and they went there and on the way they got ambushed..I saw his body been carried away but i am not sure that they were saffron men but footage was unable to show his face so we are not sure where he was hit..After he got killed the IBN began to show the footage of Karkares last moment wearing helmet and bullet proof west because *its the last thing they recorded about Karkare* vest disappearing has more to do with utter chaos happened in the hospital and with the police because of lots of injured and dead people coming to the hospital..No body can concentrate on one person..Another possibility is that there is a scam about buying those low standard vest and it will result in the punishment of some persons ..They may be responsible for the disappearance of the vest



everything happened because of chaos and what was that .... low standard vest removed because of a possibility of punishment 

Thats the best i've heard so far ... 

You people are made to look at things through the indian eye... no offense but your media is off the hook and we saw that during the mumbai attack... absolutely absurd ... every reporter was better then James bond and the best was the animated boats and what was that baba rehman 

Anyhow there is no point accusing someone who has confessed to a failure


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## SMC

Fair arguments put forward.

I do not buy the argument that the sea was not fully secured. There are some 20 radars that India has to monitor the area. Why is the fishermen getting caught is significant is because anyone getting into the area even for a short amount of time gets captured. Now it's a fair argument that fishermen do not know where they are as compared to these terrorists, but that's avoiding my previous sentence. Securing land area is in fact tougher because there are no radars to catch people crossing. The US and Somalia comparison is apples and organes comparison. US faces no serious threat from illegal immigrants. You can bet your life that they wouldn't be able to cross into their waters if US was really serious about that. Somalian pirates are in their own waters and there are only a handful ships in that area. Moreover, the military ships only seem to attack the pirates when they are attacked by the pirates.

Perhaps I should make it clear as to what I am suggesting. I do not think that breaching the security is impossible - I would definitely call it highly improbable however. I am buying the story as of right now, but only reluctantly. It's just something that seems hard to believe.


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## Iggy

Barrett said:


> everything happened because of chaos and what was that .... low standard vest removed because of a possibility of punishment
> 
> Thats the best i've heard so far ...
> 
> You people are made to look at things through the indian eye... no offense but your media is off the hook and we saw that during the mumbai attack... absolutely absurd ... every reporter was better then James bond and the best was the animated boats and what was that baba rehman
> 
> Anyhow there is no point accusing someone who has confessed to a failure



 i said its a possible scenario..But i know even if any kind of points i put forward you wont accept it..Its not through Indian eye..It was a possibility ..I cant believe you guys still think it was done by Indian agencies even after your government accepted that they were Pakistani nationals and your court Indict the master mind..so is that true that you see in Zaid Hamid'S eyes??


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## ARSENAL6

Barrett said:


> Posting pics is the best you can do ?
> 
> Maybe they don't have anything else to say ....



Posting picts or something that would put things off topic 
is one of thier games.

THey are trying to avoid the truth by t answering yours because they know the Truth hurts.


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## Iggy

Ahsan_R said:


> Fair arguments put forward.
> 
> I do not buy the argument that the sea was not fully secured. There are some 20 radars that India has to monitor the area. Why is the fishermen getting caught is significant is because anyone getting into the area even for a short amount of time gets captured. Now it's a fair argument that fishermen do not know where they are as compared to these terrorists, but that's avoiding my previous sentence. Securing land area is in fact tougher because there are no radars to catch people crossing. The US and Somalia comparison is apples and organes comparison. US faces no serious threat from illegal immigrants. You can bet your life that they wouldn't be able to cross into their waters if US was really serious about that. Somalian pirates are in their own waters and there are only a handful ships in that area. Moreover, the military ships only seem to attack the pirates when they are attacked by the pirates.
> 
> Perhaps I should make it clear as to what I am suggesting. I do not think that breaching the security is impossible - I would definitely call it highly improbable however. I am buying the story as of right now, but only reluctantly. It's just something that seems hard to believe.




First of all it was a first of a kind..Before that all the incursions were done from the land and not from the see ..it makes our security personal off guard and i don't know whether there is 20 radars in that area so i am not commenting on that..but securing in a sea area i don't think its easy than that of a land..we can put sensors and all kind of stuffs to reduce infiltration in land i don't know its possible in sea..And also you have to notice that the relation between our countries were normal so the Navy nor coast guard was on high alert..

I compare US and Somalian pirates because to show you that even if with advanced technology Navies cant guard every inch of their territory..


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## Barrett

Brother majority of the people blowing themselves up in pakistan are also pakistanis, but that doesn't mean the government is involved.
Finding out the nationality of the person firing the bullet is not important its about tracing the financier... how is it possible that such a big terrorist act was conducted without the help of insiders.
There are reports of US intelligence agencies warning the indian authorities, but what was done in this regard.
When you say these people just slipped into India and the Navy was unable to track them, do you know what kind of surveillance systems are used in your country the latest AWACS being used can even point out the weapons being carried by the fighter jets at Pakistani Air Force bases.

An event of this scale is absolutely not possible without the help of locals.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Pakistan did not had any survailence on waters we need those Orions soon , and also AWACS once we have it then we can debate things


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## Iggy

Barrett said:


> Brother majority of the people blowing themselves up in pakistan are also pakistanis, but that doesn't mean the government is involved.
> Finding out the nationality of the person firing the bullet is not important its about tracing the financier... how is it possible that such a big terrorist act was conducted without the help of insiders.
> There are reports of US intelligence agencies warning the Indian authorities, but what was done in this regard.
> When you say these people just slipped into India and the Navy was unable to track them, do you know what kind of surveillance systems are used in your country the latest AWACS being used can even point out the weapons being carried by the fighter jets at Pakistani Air Force bases.
> 
> An event of this scale is absolutely not possible without the help of locals.



Brother AWACs was Inducted only recently and that too only one  This is why i give you example of USA.See how many AWACS and all kind of gadgets they have..Why cant they stop illegal immigrants and drugs flowing from other countries?? As i said no navy can safe guard the entire sea lanes of a nations..


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## EjazR

DAWN.COM | Columnists | Mumbai?s winners and losers

AS I write this, it is one year to the day since the terrorist atrocity in Mumbai. I watched the citys three-day ordeal with fascination and horror in Sri Lanka on various news channels.

A year later, perhaps we can look back on the attack with a greater degree of objectivity, and count the winners and the losers.

The real winners, of course, are militant groups, like the Lashkar-i-Taiba, and their shadowy backers in Pakistan. They have achieved what they set out to do: sabotage the peace talks between India and Pakistan. Although these negotiations had not achieved a breakthrough, they had greatly improved relations between India and Pakistan.

The second prize goes to the security establishments in both countries, although this is truer of Pakistan than it is of India where the military is firmly under civilian control. The reality is that soldiers and spies need enemies to justify their lavish budgets. Peace between traditional enemies means cuts in defence, and less toys for the boys.

Obviously, the biggest losers are the victims of the attack, and their friends and families. But the other big losers are the people of the subcontinent. Millions in the region will continue suffering, just because their leaders remain locked in a 60-year old conflict. And when there was a glimmer of hope of some kind of resolution, relations have plunged to a new low.

The militants victory is not restricted to poisoning bilateral relations between India and Pakistan: by hitting Mumbai, it has ensured that there will be no cooperation between the two countries in the war against extremism in the foreseeable future.

This is no small victory. The war being waged on the Pak-Afghan border is perhaps the most decisive conflict of our times, and its outcome will affect the region for years to come. In order to combat the Taliban and their various partners effectively, active cooperation between India and Pakistan is crucial.

After the Mumbai attack, India has refused to pursue peace talks, arguing that as long as Pakistan tolerates the presence of terrorist organisations on its soil, there can be no meaningful negotiations. Again and again, the Indian leadership and media have echoed the mantra of Pakistan not doing enough against the planners of the Mumbai attack.

In several articles, I have argued that it is precisely because of the atrocity that peace talks need to be pursued with greater focus and political will. Does India really want to hand a major victory to the perpetrators of the attack?

I have also suggested that in order to reassure the Pakistani military that it has nothing to fear on its eastern border, India could easily withdraw one of its divisions deployed there. This would encourage Pakistan to transfer more troops to its northwest where the real battle against extremists is now going on.

Each time I have written along these lines, I have been flooded with emails from India readers, blasting me for daring to make such a suggestion. According to them, Pakistan does not merit such a gesture because it is harbouring terrorists, and because it has long followed policies hostile to India. And for these reasons, they are also against the resumption of peace talks.

They miss the point that one negotiates with ones adversaries, not ones friends. And they have the bizarre notion that peace is a reward for good behaviour, not a mutual need. The fact is that India needs peace just as much as Pakistan does. True, it is Pakistan that is currently being battered by an unrelenting wave of terrorism. But a Pakistan destabilised by extremist violence should be New Delhis worst nightmare.

Those who think a victorious Taliban would stop their mayhem on Pakistans eastern border are living in cloud-cuckoo land. These thugs have no respect for international boundaries, and have repeatedly declared their intention to liberate Kashmir. Many of them also want to re-establish Muslim rule over India. These insane goals will ensure that terrorist groups will go on trying to hit Indian targets.

Another reason for India to pursue talks is that as a major regional and global player, the last thing it needs is continuing tension on its borders. When in 2001, a terrorist attack on the Indian parliament caused tensions to rise sharply, a number of multinationals withdrew their executives from India. The bottom line is that the threat of a nuclear exchange is not good for business.

Clearly, then, it should be in Indias interest to support the peace process, irrespective of the attempts made by terrorists to derail it. Indeed, the bloody events of a year ago should act as a spur  not as a reason to suspend negotiations.

In a recent interview in the United States, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh made the point that his government did not know who to speak to in Pakistan. While there is some validity to this observation, it is equally true that there is now an unprecedented desire for peace with India across the political spectrum in Pakistan. This goal is shared by the army leadership. Gen Musharraf genuinely did his best to work out a lasting solution to the Kashmir conflict.

Now, the defence establishment does not need India to justify its budget, given that the whole country views the Taliban as the real foe. It also realises that an armed conflict with India would be suicidal. Both the ruling PPP and the main opposition parties support peace with India.

Unlike in the past, when the real resistance to normalisation came from jingoistic groups as well as the army in Pakistan, it now seems that the stumbling block lies in India. Buoyed by years of rapid development and military expansion, many Indians feel their country no longer needs to consider their smaller neighbour a threat. This is a short-term assessment that ignores the dangers of asymmetrical warfare, and the horrors of terrorism.

India, as the more powerful nation, can afford to make peaceful gestures without endangering its security. The question is whether its economic and military strength have made it self-confident enough to reach out to its deeply troubled neighbour.

Judging from the hysterical coverage of last years attack on NDTV  the only Indian channel available to me in Sri Lanka  I fear that both the media and the political leadership will continue gloating over Pakistans woes. But while a little schadenfreude, or pleasure over somebody elses discomfort, is understandable, it is not in Indias long-term interest.

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## EjazR

The Hindu : Opinion / Op-Ed : Pakistan: two questions, multiple realities
Nirupama Subramanian
A year after the Mumbai attacks, two questions have persisted: was the Inter-Services Intelligence or any other &#8220;elements&#8221; of the Pakistani state complicit in the attacks? If the ISI, which nurtured the Lashkar-e-Taiba to wage a proxy war in India, has cut itself off from the group as claimed and was not involved in the attack, what stops Pakistan from cracking down effectively on it?

There are no certain replies to these questions, only multiple realities, and how each side perceives and interprets them.

In the weeks after the attacks, the Pakistan government, under immense international pressure and scrutiny, took several steps. A raid on a Lashkar camp at Muzaffarabad led to the arrest of commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi. This is possibly also where Abdul Wajid, whose alias has been shown as Zarar Shah, was picked up. Both are the alleged masterminds of the attacks.

Next, it placed Hafiz Saeed, LeT founder and leader of its front organisation, Jamat-ud-dawa, under house arrest. It also detained some 70 JuD activists across the country. In Punjab and the North-West Frontier Province, the government sealed some JuD offices. This came after the designation of the JuD and Hafiz Saeed by the Al Qaeda/Taliban sanctions committee of the U.N. Security Council.

The Punjab government took over the administration of the Muridke campus of the JuD, located 45 km from Lahore, to keep operational some of the welfare activities started by the group.

The government also launched an investigation into the planning of the Mumbai attacks in Pakistan. The probe named the LeT as the group behind the attack. The government made multiple arrests, registered a case and put seven people, including Lakhvi and Abdul Wajid, on trial.

Analysts and officials in Pakistan feel that all this only goes to show that no state &#8220;elements&#8221; could have been involved in the Mumbai attacks. The government could not have taken any of these actions without the consent of the ISI and the Army. Even the investigation by the Federal Investigating Agency, they say, would not have been possible, but for the assistance provided by intelligence agencies.

There is a real worry within the military and the intelligence agencies, these analysts say, that if there is another attack of a similar nature in India, it could trigger an India-Pakistan at a time when its forces are tied up battling the Taliban on the western borders. This, they say, is a &#8220;nightmare scenario&#8221; that the Pakistani authorities are trying their best to avoid.

&#8216;Strategic asset&#8217;

&#8220;Some corners of the establishment may still hold the view that the LeT can be used as a &#8216;strategic asset,&#8217; but there is a lot of internal thinking on this, lots of questions are being asked internally about this. My information is that in the majority view, they are now seen more as a liability,&#8221; said Amir Rana, author of A-Z of Jihad, and head of the Pakistan Institute of Peace Studies.

But the government&#8217;s reluctance to go all the way against the LeT is all too obvious. After six months of house arrest, Hafiz Saeed is a free man, and the government says it cannot act against him unless New Delhi provides &#8220;concrete evidence&#8221; linking him to the Mumbai attacks. Saeed does keep a lower profile than before, but still leads the Friday prayers at the JuD&#8217;s headquarters, Jamia Al Qudsia, at Chaudburji in Lahore.

All the others JuD activists have been released. The organisation has not yet been banned, but now operates under the name of Falah-i-Insaniyat and was noticed in relief operations among the internally displaced from the Swat Valley during the military operations there.

As the arrests of David Headley and Tahawwur Hussain Rana in the U.S. have shown, the LeT also retains operational capabilities. The two men are said to have been in communication with an unnamed LeT operative, and though they were arrested for an alleged terror plot against a Danish newspaper, they were also said to be planning an attack on the National Defence College in New Delhi.

Further, the arrest of a former Major for his links with Headley and Rana are bound to raise questions on the LeT&#8217;s continuing links, if not with the military as an institution, but with sections within it, especially because the Major retired only two years ago.

After the attack on the General Headquarters in Rawalpindi, the Pakistan military acknowledged, for the first time, that the Pakistani Taliban, which it is battling, had found allies among the Punjab-based jihadi groups &#8212; known as anti-India groups, or &#8216;Kashmiri&#8217; groups that came up with state backing &#8212; to carry out terrorist strikes in the heartland of Pakistan.

It is now accepted within the military that Al Qaeda, the Taliban and their allies among the Punjabi jihadis operate as a syndicate. But while the military has included the Jaish-e-Mohammed, along with Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and the Sipah-e-Sahaba, in this syndicate, the Laskhar-e-Taiba is still not considered part of it.

In a background briefing for journalists last month, senior military officials warned against India&#8217;s &#8220;propaganda&#8221; of trying to conflate the LeT with Al Qaeda &#8220;for its own ends&#8221;.

Even with the Jaish, the extent of the rupture with the establishment is unclear. In a briefing after the GHQ attacks, the military spokesman said it was &#8220;splinter groups&#8221; and &#8220;individuals&#8221; who had broken away from the main group and joined up with the Taliban. The implication seemed to be that there was no problem yet with the main group.

Indeed, an October 16 report in The News, which was not denied or contradicted yet, said the military flew down the leadership of the Jaish-e-Mohammed and the Sipah-e-Sahaba to negotiate with the GHQ attackers during the siege. From the JeM, it was Mufti Abdul Rauf, the younger brother of Maulana Masood Azhar and acting Ameer of the group. But jihad-watchers in Pakistan say there are good reasons for the reluctance to go all out against the Punjab-based jihad groups.

Especially with the LeT, one reason widely cited is that the security establishment does not want to risk a backlash from a group that has refrained thus far from anti-Pakistan activities and is still seen as closest to the establishment. The JuD has a network that reaches deep into every tehsil of Punjab, and the military does not want to be forced into opening yet another front in the country&#8217;s most stable, prosperous and politically important province.

Arresting Hafiz Saeed is also seen as out of question. It is claimed that it would lead to factionalism within the JuD, and the creation of hard to control &#8220;rogue&#8221; or splinter groups. In fact, Saeed&#8217;s hold over the organisation is already said to have weakened from the time of the 2002 ban on LeT. Even the Mumbai attacks are held to be the handiwork of a &#8220;rogue&#8221; group.

Plus, analysts say, India&#8217;s attitude since the Mumbai attacks has led to a corresponding hardening of anti-India attitudes here, not just within the establishment or government, but also among ordinary people, and any move against Hafiz Saeed or JuD/LeT could set off a political backlash about &#8220;appeasing India&#8221;.

It seems that the maximum that Pakistan is prepared to do to address Indian concerns is prosecute the seven men, including the LeT commander Lakhvi, who face trial for their suspected involvement in the Mumbai attacks. Those questions, though, will not go away.


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## SSGPA1

By Prachi Pinglay 
BBC News, Mumbai 
* 
Hemant Karkare was killed early in the Mumbai attacks 
The wife of a top police officer killed in the 2008 attacks in the Indian city of Mumbai (Bombay) has demanded an inquiry into his death.

Kavita Karkare said she had still not been told exactly how her husband died, a year after the attacks. *

Anti-terrorism chief Hemant Karkare was killed along with two senior police officers outside the Cama hospital. 

At least 174 people, including 14 policemen, died when 10 gunmen attacked sites in the city on 26 November 2008. 

One of the gunmen was caught alive and is currently on trial. Nine others were killed. 

Body armour questions

Mrs Karkare told reporters: "So far no senior officer has told me what exactly happened that night." 

She said she had discovered her husband's bulletproof jacket was missing after she filed a freedom of information request two months ago. 

"I also came to know that the file which had the date of purchase is also missing." 

Mrs Karkare is demanding answers following media reports which have questioned the quality of bulletproof jackets used by the police. 

The wife of another officer killed alongside Mr Karkare has filed a similar "right to information (RTI)" request to see police records. 

Vinita Kamte said she needed the information to reconstruct the sequence of events which led to the death of her husband, Ashok, and other police officers. 

Mrs Kamte said she had received several records and was waiting for some more. 

"I am studying the records of calls made to the police control room. It is unfortunate that we have to apply to RTI to get information and speak to the media about it." 

'Trauma'

Mrs Karkare said the policemen who died had been treated as martyrs. But she asked if candlelit marches and compensation were enough to forget what happened. 

Many relatives of policemen who lost their lives were undergoing psychiatric treatment to cope with the trauma, she added. 

Police commissioner D Sivanadhan told the BBC that an inquiry was being conducted and further details were awaited. 

An independent inquiry has already criticised the Mumbai police for a lack of co-ordination in dealing with the attacks. 

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Mumbai hero's wife seeks inquiry


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## SSGPA1

I have always stated the Mr. Karkare was killed by the Indian govt because he was investigating the Samjotha Express blast very honestly.

Hindu extremists within the Indian secret service and the Indian army were not happy with Mr. Karkare so they decided to use the 26/11 incident. Mr. Karkare caused the arrest of Col. Proshit and that cost Mr. Karkare his life.

Salute to Mr. Karkare for honesty.

*It is high time that world and Indians look at the Hindu fundamentalists & extremists in the Indian armed forces and in RAW. These Hindu fundamentalists are the biggest threat to peace and stability in the SE Asia.*

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## DejaVo

Must be shib sena


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## SSGPA1

Sena is only one of many and my concern is the Hindu extremists in the Indian security organizations.


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## Chanakyaa

SSGPA1 said:


> I have always stated the Mr. Karkare was killed by the Indian govt because he was investigating the Samjotha Express blast very honestly.
> 
> Hindu extremists within the Indian secret service and the Indian army were not happy with Mr. Karkare so they decided to use the 26/11 incident. Mr. Karkare caused the arrest of Col. Proshit and that cost Mr. Karkare his life.
> 
> Salute to Mr. Karkare for honesty.
> 
> *It is high time that world and Indians look at the Hindu fundamentalists & extremists in the Indian armed forces and in RAW. These Hindu fundamentalists are the biggest threat to peace and stability in the SE Asia.*



You Know The Gov you r talking abt is that of Congress.
Congress is Anti BJP
The RAW is Under Goi=Congress and NOT BJP.

Do u think Congress will do what BJP Might Like?
*
And a Single Tranfer can do the Job. Why will any Agency have their hands Red ?*
IAS Federation is very Strong in India. They can really shake the Govt.

Recently One Air India Pilot was removed and Pilots federation revolted UNITED do u think IAS/IPS Guys will remain Quiet ?

Besides Mrs. Karkare is ONLY questioning the Consequences Like Quality of Jacket etc. NO where She has CLAIMED ONCE that Saffron Brigade is behind this.


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## Nemesis

Please keep your ignorance to yourself. She is demanding an inquiry not because she believes in insipid conspiracy theories but because there are questions about the bullet proof jackets that were purchased by the Mumbai police. The relatives of the victims have the right to know the details of the bungled up operation by the Mumbai police. There was a lot confusion during the first 10 hours, and until we find out exactly what happened, we won't be able to rectify the situation during expected future attacks. 



> I have always stated the Mr. Karkare was killed by the Indian govt because he was investigating the Samjotha Express blast very honestly.



For the last time, Hindu extremists were responsible for the Malgaon blasts and not the samjotha express blasts.


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## toxic_pus

Nemesis said:


> For the last time...


If I bet against that, I'll be rich.

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## Iggy

SSGPA1 said:


> Sena is only one of many and my concern is the Hindu extremists in the Indian security organizations.



what you meant by that??when did Sena become India's security organisation?? 


@ nemesis 

i will also bet against it and i am sure that the same thing will be repeated in the same thread itself


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## BlackenTheSky

Shivsena and bjp killed hemant karkare


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## BlackenTheSky

Nemesis said:


> For the last time, Hindu extremists were responsible for the Malgaon blasts and not the samjotha express blasts.



NEW DELHI: Mumbai Anti-Terrorist Squad in India has claimed that Lt Col Shrikant Purohit, who was arrested in connection with the Malegaon blast, was also involved with 2007 Samjhauta blast.ATS said to the Nashik court that the accused had used RDX to carry out the blast in which 68 people were killed, Zeenews reported Saturday.

Putting an end to all speculation, the anti-terror branch of Mumbai Police said that Army RDX was used and not sourced from across the border.

Purohit procured 60 kg of RDX from Jammu and Kashmir in the year 2006, a part of which is suspected to have been used in Samjautha Express train explosion and Malegaon blasts, Maharashtra police told the court on Saturday.

But what is intriguing is that the investigation agency has no clue about the remaining RDX.

This theory came in sharp contrast with the earlier investigation of Samjhauta blast, in which, it was concluded that not RDX, instead, IED and some liquid chemicals were used.

Seeking extension of police custody of Purohit, special prosecutor for Maharashtra ATS Ajay Misar told the court that Purohit had beleived to have 60 kgs of RDX in his possession which he had got from Jammu and Kashmir.

Purohit gave a portion of the RDX to one Bhagwan who is suspected to have used in Samjhauta Express blast, Misar said.

The RDX is also suspected to have been used in Malegaon bomb explosion on September 29 this year, due to which Purohits interrogation is necessary, Misar told the court.

Purohit, arrested in connection with Malegaon blast, was on Saturday produced before a Nashik court, where ATS sought his further police custody in order to interrogate him thoroughly and the court granted it till November 18.

Earlier, the Lt Colonel had said to the court that he was not ill treated by ATS personnel as claimed by his family.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## r3alist

how exactly did a group of people cross the indian ocean in a little dinghy boat unnoticed and cause all that damage.

its beggars belief.

the victims deserve proper answers, so many holes in the indian story


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## SSGPA1

XiNiX said:


> You Know The Gov you r talking abt is that of Congress.
> Congress is Anti BJP
> The RAW is Under Goi=Congress and NOT BJP.
> 
> Do u think Congress will do what BJP Might Like?
> *
> And a Single Tranfer can do the Job. Why will any Agency have their hands Red ?*
> IAS Federation is very Strong in India. They can really shake the Govt.
> 
> Recently One Air India Pilot was removed and Pilots federation revolted UNITED do u think IAS/IPS Guys will remain Quiet ?
> 
> Besides Mrs. Karkare is ONLY questioning the Consequences Like Quality of Jacket etc. NO where She has CLAIMED ONCE that Saffron Brigade is behind this.




Intelligence is a dirty business and there are always people who act according to their own agendas. The majority of IPS/IAS guys are quiet because if they speak up then the GoP will question the entire evidence provided in regards to the 26/11 incident.


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## SSGPA1

Nemesis said:


> For the last time, Hindu extremists were responsible for the Malgaon blasts and not the samjotha express blasts.



Read the post by dez and think twice before betting


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## Hulk

I support her because I feel we should try to fix responsibilities for inefficient behaviour of police.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Conspiracy Theroy : 

Well my conspiracy theory is that the Anti Terrorism Officer was blaming the army for their role in blast

So the Army panicked, they wanted to create a sense of being needed and to remind every one look , we are still needed to protect you from the BIG BAD Pakistan 

So this Operation Mumbai was launched, mysteriously all of the 
Indian defences , were by passed by 5 guys on a simple boat - out of no where , and all of sudden Mumbai incident happend

May be their families were kidnapped , and they were made into doing what they did 
may be , they were locals - 

Now, while the Army's reputation got enhanced, mysteriously also the Anti Terrorim officer was convinently killed which pretty much ended the inquiry into the train blasts 

And The Army got approval for budgetary increase

With out wars who needs a big army ??? and weapons - ?? 

But to me to assume some ppl were on fishing boat and went undetected all the way into India 


Again its all very shadowy business - if you ask me 

No one in Pakistan knew what just happened all we thought were like 
damn who the heck are these guys ? running around in Mumbai ?

The biggest ... indication of some Indian Army's involvement is Pakistan and Indian were on their way to resolve Kashmir issue , and perhaps the Army did not appreciate the Civilian gov , resolving the long standing Kashmir Issue on Indian side as they wanted to stay at the current borders ?? 

So this 'self inflicted' wound was created - so that the peace process could be derailed for another 10-20 years.

But - again ... to me the biggest flaw in story is that some how these 5 guys on boat managed to by pass all coast guard, survelance, and patrol boats and managed to sneak into India 

And second of course is the on going investigation of involvement of Indian Army Top Rank officers in local train blasts -


But , my personal opinion is that, if both india and Pakistan were sincere they shoudl have formed a joint investigation unit , and Indian police officers should have came to Pakistan and worked with local Anti Terrorism units to investigate , matters instead of 
Army THREATENINGS Pakistan

Becasue , if you think about it when the Indian Army started to threaten Pakistan , obviously we were like why are you not interested in solving the problem instead of escalating it to war when clearly both Pakistan and India were caught of guard -


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## inferno

Singh: India Will Not Let Hatched in Pakistan Mumbai Terror Attacks Happen Again
Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh says he welcomes Pakistani steps to rein in extremists. But he says Pakistan must do everything it can to punish those who planned and carried out the Mumbai attacks last year.

Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh says he welcomes Pakistani steps to rein in extremists. But he says Pakistan must do everything it can to punish those who planned and carried out the Mumbai attacks last year. 

Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh says his government will do everything possible to prevent another terrorist attack like the one last year in Mumbai.

Mr. Singh spoke to reporters Wednesday, a day after President Obama honored him at an elaborate state visit.

*"India's commitment to an open democratic and secular polity will not be shaken by such assaults on our way of life," he said.
*
Pakistani prosecutors have charged seven men with planning and helping to carry out last year's Mumbai terror attacks that killed more than 160 people.

*"Our position is very clear since the conspiracy was hatched basically in Pakistan, it is the obligation of the government of Pakistan to do everything in their power to bring these perpetrators to justice," said the Indian prime minister.*

Mr. Singh said the Mumbai attacks figured prominently in his talks with President Obama and other administration officials. 

"I have discussed this matter with the president and also with Secretary of State. I have been assured that the U.S. influence [on Pakistan] will work," he said.

Islamic extremism in Pakistan is a major concern for India and the United States. India and Pakistan have fought three wars since independence from Britain in 1947, and ties between them are sensitive.

*Washington has pressed Pakistan not to feel threatened by India and focus more on its fight against extremists operating along the Afghan-Pakistani border. *

That effort recently has shown progress as Pakistan's army wages a major offensive against Islamic militants on its northwestern frontier with Afghanistan.

Mr. Singh also raised Indian fears about Pakistani Taliban forces moving away from their traditional bases.

*"We are worried about the activities of the Taliban now covering the mainland cities and towns of Pakistan, particularly of Punjab. That is a threat to security not only for Pakistan, but also for the security of our country," he said.
*
Mr. Singh sought to ease worries in Pakistan about possible Indian aggression. He said India believes a strong and peaceful Pakistan is in its national interests. "Pakistan faces no threat whatsoever from our country," he said.

Mr. Singh said he is leaving Washington with confidence that his talks have deepened understanding with the U.S. and given a new direction to the strategic partnership so that it would serve the national interests of both countries.

---------- Post added at 05:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 AM ----------

Singh: India Will Not Let Hatched in Pakistan Mumbai Terror Attacks Happen Again | Asia | English


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## inferno

> *"India's commitment to an open democratic and secular polity will not be shaken by such assaults on our way of life," he said.
> *


I second that and i think indian govt. have done diplomatically well to pressurize pakistan to control its notorious intel agency and some officials


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## Khajur

One,for those blaming indian army or RAW for mumbai massacre ,should know they bear no close associations with each other .Unlike ISI,RAW is fully under civilian control though some staffs are of military backgrounds.

Two,Hemant Karkare had worked for RAW for several years before joining his state cadre as the ATS chief of Maharastra state.

If its actually true that RAW engages in hindu terrorism ,then he would've known better and choose not investigate the role of hinud orgs in Malegoan blast,a site that witnesses regular communal riots.


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## Ababeel

Actually Shiv Sena is basically a regional organisation in state of Maharashtra and has no much hold on national level.
In reality RSS or Sangh Parivar is the real culprit. They have infiltrated everywhere whether it's military, police force, intelligence or even Congress Party. Narasimha Rao was a staunch RSS cadre. There menifesto is like fascist Hitler. If one reads it he comes to know the real face of fascist among Hindus.
Hemant Karkare's killing is a big conspiracy in Indian history. He was the person who first open the real face of Hindu terrorism in India but killed before completing his mission.


----------



## PAFAce

*Mumbai suspect's lawyer is sacked*

The trial court in the Indian city of Mumbai (Bombay) has removed the main lawyer for the leading suspect in last November's deadly attacks in the city.

The judge said Abbas Kazmi was "not co-operating" and delaying proceedings.

Advocate KP Pawar will now defend Mohammad Ajmal Amir Qasab, a Pakistani, who faces 86 charges, including waging war on India and murder.

The attacks, which began on 26 November 2008 and lasted nearly three days, left 174 people dead, including nine gunmen.

'Wrong signal'

The major disagreement appears to be over the fact that the court wants Mr Kazmi to choose 71 of the total 340 witnesses for cross-examination.

But the defence lawyer had insisted on talking to all 340 witnesses, a court statement said.

"Kazmi is not co-operating with the court in the interest of justice. He is trying to drag the trial and is unnecessarily consuming the time of the court," the Press Trust of India (PTI) quoted Judge ML Tahilyani as saying.

"It appears that Kazmi has developed a feeling that he has become indispensable and without him the trial cannot go on. He has developed a feeling that because of his appointment as Qasab's lawyer, the court is helpless without him," he added.

"This gives out a wrong signal to everyone and it is high time that either Kazmi withdraws from the case himself or the court terminates his appointment."

Judge Tahilyani also ordered Mr Kazmi to hand over all the documents of the case to advocate KP Pawar, who was assisting him in the case and now replaces him.

The court has asked Mr Pawar to choose a lawyer to assist him.

Mr Kazmi, a top criminal lawyer from Mumbai, was appointed in April to represent Mr Qasab after the first lawyer was abruptly sacked.

He replaced Anjali Waghmare, who was dismissed for "professional misconduct".

She was alleged to have also agreed to represent an attack victim.

Mohammad Ajmal Amir Qasab was arrested on the first day of the attacks and has been in Indian custody ever since.

He originally denied the charges against him but in July, in a dramatic outburst in court, he admitted his role and to be hanged.

Last Thursday, ceremonies were held in Mumbai to mark the first anniversary of the devastating attacks.

On Wednesday, a court in Pakistan charged seven people in connection with the attacks, including the suspected mastermind Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, who is alleged to head the banned militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba.

After initial denials, Pakistan acknowledged that Mr Qasab was one of its citizens and that the attacks had been partially planned on its territory.

The attacks soured relations between India and Pakistan and Delhi suspended peace talks with Islamabad. 
______________________________________
MAIN QASAB CHARGES
# Waging war on India
# Murder
# Conspiracy to murder
# Destabilising the government
# Kidnap
# Robbery
# Smuggling and possessing illegal arms and explosives
______________________________________

Reminds me of the "free and fair" trial Saddam Hussain received. It would be admirable if the Indians provided Qasab with all his rights, but then again, he was involved in the killing of 174 people. It's difficult to argue for or against, really. Do you stick with your morals or do you give the guy what he deserves? The Indians are clearly doing the latter.


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## vnomad

Jana said:


> And oh it is not some small case where police or Indian set up lost the bullet proof jacket.
> 
> It simply shows that Karkare was killed according to the plan.



Well what I've been saying all along has been confirmed. The loss of the bulletproof jacket occurred while Karkare's body was sent to the hospital.



> No record of Karkare jacket being stolen
> Mani DMello I TNN
> 
> Mumbai: There is no specific information in the police records to indicate that slain anti-terrorism squad chief Hemant Karkares bulletproof jacket was stolen.
> Metropolitan magistrate of Mazgaon court, R K Malabade, said this while directing complainant Santosh Daundkar to approach the Esplande Court at Azad Maidan for a probe into the matter. Malabade turned down Daundkars plea to direct the JJ Marg police to register an FIR on the alleged theft of the jacket. Daundkar had also filed a PIL in the Bombay high court, saying it was of inferior quality.
> IPS officer Karkare, along with additional commissioner Ashok Kamte, senior inspector Vijay Salaskar and three other policemen, was shot dead in the lane adjoining Cama Hospital on 26/11.
> Malabade said that going by the reply which Karkares wife received following an RTI query, it appears that the panchnama on Karkares body was prepared by the Azad Maidan police, who could not trace the bulletproof jacket. The panchnama was made at JJ Hospital where the ATS chiefs body was shifted. As they could not find the jacket, they could neither take photographs of it nor include it in the panchnama. His other clothes  trousers, shirt and innerwear  were noted.
> The magistrate further said, The Azad Maidan police team had then said that while shifting Karkares body, the bulletproof jacket was on the body. However, *during examination by the doctor, it was taken off.* An extensive search could not yield any result. According to the reply to the RTI query, it is clear that Azad Maidan police did conduct the preliminary investigation and an extensive search was done.
> Daundkar had approached the Azad Maidan police on Saturday, asking them to register an FIR against unknown persons for the alleged theft of the jacket.
> 
> Times of India


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

WHY IS THIS GUY getting a trial he had a freaking gun in his hand  and there is video survelence camera on view , hang the SOB ...

I mean , these idiots , killed 80-90 ppl and honestly what is the debate about

The only pending issue is how/who sponsored these guy as no one in Pakistan would do that , and likely these are rouge elements - 

One could argues that Srilankan cricket team attack was rouge commandos from India , etc but again there is no substantial proof 

The only proof is these guys killed people and they should be hanged and there shoudl have been a joint investigation long time ago , unless it was a self afflicted wound by indian army to shift attention from its scandal in train blasts


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## Goodperson

No he should not be hanged he should be kept in Zoo Like other animals.


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## AliFarooq

Goodperson said:


> No he should not be hanged he should be kept in Zoo Like other animals.



If you lost a family member in those attacks would you not want him dead?


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## Goodperson

AliFarooq said:


> If you lost a family member in those attacks would you not want him dead?



Not all, Atleast you can hit stones if he is in Zoo and get some satisfaction. But you cannot personally harm the person if he is dead.


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## AliFarooq

Goodperson said:


> Not all, Atleast you can hit stones if he is in Zoo and get some satisfaction. But you cannot personally harm the person if he is dead.



He won't be getting any stones thrown at him, high security prison.


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## Goodperson

I doubt he would be hanged, India needs to have living proof. 

btw the lawyer was sacked because he lied.

Kasab's lawyer lied, sacked


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## third eye

[B said:


> PAFAce
> 
> Reminds me of the "free and fair" trial Saddam Hussain received. It would be admirable if the Indians provided Qasab with all his rights, but then again, he was involved in the killing of 174 people. It's difficult to argue for or against, really. Do you stick with your morals or do you give the guy what he deserves? The Indians are clearly doing the latter.



[/B]

There is little to compare between Kasab & Saddam.


----------



## Spring Onion

*I was called terrorist lawyer in court: Kasab's ex-lawyer*


MUMBAI: *Abbas Kazmi, who was sacked as the lawyer of Pakistani gunman Ajmal Kasab by a special trial court, on Tuesday alleged that he had to face humiliation at the hands of prosecution during the trial. *
*"I was called a terrorist lawyer in the court. I was called Abu Abbas and it was said that Pakistan was going to reward me. Finally I was called a liar," Kazmi told reporters a day after his removal. *


*He alleged that on one occasion when the court was recording the testimony of FBI official, prosecutor Nikam said, "Now the terrorist lawyer will cross-examine you." *

Kazmi, however, refused to comment on the court's decision. 

"I do not want to create any obstructions for the trial. I do not want to say anything that will obstruct the trial. The matter is sub judice. I have a great respect for the court," Kazmi said. 

When asked whether he was going to take any legal step against his removal from the trial, he said, "I don't want to pursue this issue further." 

*When asked whether prosecution was trying to drag the trial, Kazmi said, "People were told that trial will be over by November 26. It was called an open and shut case. Why prosecution did not tell people it was going to bring around 700 witnesses?"* 

*Kazmi also said that the kind of humiliation the lawyers suffered during the trial was unprecedented. 

"Initially we had to remove our cell phones (when entering court), we had to remove even our shoes. I was not allowed to take my briefcase inside. We were frisked thrice every time," he said. *
He said once he saw prosecutor Nikam using phone in court and requested the court that he too be allowed to bring cell phone in. 

"The judge allowed it, but next day when I tried to carry cell phone inside, security misbehaved with me," he said. 

"When I took up this case, I faced hostility of the entire world. And now this is the reward," he rued. Kazmi said he told Nikam that he didn't mind apologising to court, but the "liar" remark must be removed. 

Judge M L Tahaliyani had Kazmi a "liar", but the remark was later expunged, following Nikam's intervention and his (Kazmi) apology. 

It had seemed that after Kazmi's apology on Saturday, he would carry on as Kasab's lawyer. However, the judge sacked him yesterday for "non-cooperation". 

Tahaliyani ordered Kazmi's termination after he refused to consider the court's suggestion to pick out 71 formal witnesses out of the total 340 who had filed affidavits. 

Advocate K P Pawar, who was assisting Kazmi in the case, has now replaced the latter as Kasab's lawyer. 

I was called terrorist lawyer in court: Kasab's ex-lawyer - India - The Times of India


----------



## third eye

*"Disrupting trade & disturbing normal life"... are these the charges !!

... and ppl are accused of arranging money & obtaining SIM cards & satellite phones for this !!!*


BBC News - BBC obtains Pakistan's charges against Mumbai accused


The BBC has obtained details of charges that Pakistan has filed against the alleged mastermind of last year's attacks in the Indian city of Mumbai.

*The charges, filed in a Rawalpindi court, accuse Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi and six others of disrupting "normal civil life" in India and Pakistan.*

*The men, who have already pleaded not guilty, are also accused of "disrupting trade" between the neighbours.*

The charges were laid on 25 November, but full details were not provided.

The trial is being held behind closed doors in an anti-terrorism court set up inside a high-security prison.

A total of 174 people, including nine gunmen, were killed in the attacks in November 2008.

The attacks led India to suspend peace talks with Pakistan. In July, Indian PM Manmohan Singh said talks would not restart until the Mumbai attacks suspects were brought to justice.

The only surviving attacker, Muhammed Ajmal Qasab, is currently facing trial in India.

*After initially denying it, Islamabad acknowledged that Mr Qasab was a Pakistani national.*

Pakistani security forces say they are still searching for more suspects, but India has previously blamed the Pakistani authorities themselves for aiding the Mumbai attackers.

'Disrupted'

The 10-page charging document obtained by the BBC lists the case as State versus Hammad Amin Sadiq etc.

*"By your aforesaid acts of terrorism, you disrupted the trade between two neighbouring countries, that is Pakistan, India and also disrupted normal civil life of people of the two countries..." the document says.*

Mr Sadiq, Mr Lakhvi and the other five accused are described as "active members of defunct proscribed organisation Lashkar-e-Taiba", who set up militant training camps in Yousaf Goth, Karachi and Mirpur Sakroo in Sindh to train the Mumbai attackers under the operational command of Mr Lakhvi.

Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi is accused of being the head of the banned militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba and, according to the prosecution, the mastermind of the Mumbai attacks.

Hamid Amin Sadiq is alleged to be one of the main handlers of the attackers and the operational head, according to Pakistan's Interior Minister Rehman Malik.

The other accused named in the document are Mazhar Iqbal alias Abu Al-Qama, Abdul Wajid alias Zarar Shah, Shahid Jamil Riaz, Jamil Ahmed and Muhammad Younas Anjum.

*They are accused of arranging money "for preparation and carrying out of Mumbai attacks" and satellite phone sim cards for Mr Qasab and the other nine gunmen.
*
The seven accused trained, instructed, provided funds and hideouts, rented houses in Karachi and finally launched the 10 men used in the Mumbai attacks, the document said.

These are the first people the Pakistani courts have indicted in connection with the Mumbai attacks.

The indictments came amid renewed pressure from India for Pakistan to do more to speed up the legal process, and convict those responsible for planning the attacks.

It is one year since the incident, and the strain in diplomatic relations is still, very much, being felt, correspondents say.


----------



## Spitfighter

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> *"Regarding Mumbai attacks, he stated that seven accused of Mumbai attacks are being prosecuted in Pakistan, therefore, India should wait for decisions of their cases."*
> Pak rules out Mullah Omer presence in Karachi : Business Recorder | LATEST NEWS



Hopefully now AM, you see my point. 

All this is just an eye wash to begin with, fortunately, no one in India is buying Pakistan's BS. 

There will no be dialogue until Pakistan takes serious, credible measures against the LeT and other India-specific terrorist networks in Pakistan. 

I'm glad this report has come out in the open for the world to see, hopefully we can expect more pressure and support from the world community should push come to shove, because Pakistan is clearly not taking any of this seriously. 

Disrupting trade? WTF!! These bastards should be charged with waging war against India, terrorism and murder!!! 

Pakistan will dilly dally on the issue till the end of time. India really needs to start weighing its options militarily and economically after this slap in the face, coercive diplomacy only works if you have some real leverage, we must be prepared to take on the terrorists should they strike again, no matter what that means.


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## manglasiva

3 held in Mumbai with suspected radioactive material

Mumbai: Mumbai Police have arrested three people with five kg of suspected radioactive material in Panvel, Navi Mumbai.

The seized material has been sent to Bhabha Atomic Research Centre for testing.

The arrests were made by Navi Mumbai Crime Branch.

3 held in Mumbai with suspected radioactive material


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## Jumeirah

Please come up with a link??


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## manglasiva

Jumeirah said:


> Please come up with a link??



3 held in Mumbai with suspected radioactive material


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## Thomas

manglasiva said:


> 3 held in Mumbai with suspected radioactive material



That's a lot of yellow cake uranium


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## Thomas

if the story does turn out to be true that would make a pretty large dirty bomb.


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## Jumeirah

Thomas said:


> That's a lot of yellow cake uranium



Hey wat yellow cake uranium. what its general usage. how is it diffrent from normal enriched uran for nuclear usage? cheers


----------



## Thomas

Jumeirah said:


> Hey wat yellow cake uranium. what its general usage. how is it diffrent from normal enriched uran for nuclear usage? cheers



Yellowcake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Thomas

looks like the story has change a bit from 5kg of yellow cake uranium. To an unknown amount of depleted uranium. still up in the air if the story is true or not.


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## BATMAN

Thomas said:


> if the story does turn out to be true that would make a pretty large dirty bomb.



But this is not the first time! many kilos have been reported stolem in past from various facilities.

You worry more of dirty bomb, where as we woryy more about the industrial practices of indians, which make indo-pak a risky place to live.... one likely accident and we are all exposed to radiation.


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## Khajur

*As Mumbai carnage unfolded, Headley planned next strike*



Praveen Swami 

Temperamental Lashkar operative broke ranks with commanders to focus on attack in Europe 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

He wanted to bomb offices of Danish newspaper that published cartoons of the Prophet


Headley&#8217;s arrest compelled Lashkar to drop its plan to attack National Defence College in Delhi
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

NEW DELHI: Even as millions of people across the world watched the 2008 November carnage unfold in Mumbai, the Lashkar-e-Taiba secret agent who helped plan the massacre was preparing for another murderous attack.

Pakistani-American jihadist David Headley hoped to bomb the offices of Danish newspaper Jyllands Posten, whose publications of cartoons of Prophet Mohammad in 2005 offended many Muslims across the world. 

*Headley&#8217;s temperamental pursuit of what he called the &#8220;Mickey Mouse Project&#8221; led him to defy his Lashkar commanders, and undermined the jihadist group&#8217;s hopes of attacking the National Defence College here &#8212; forcing it to launch an alternative operation targeting the Indian High Commission in Dhaka that police in Bangladesh broke up last month.*

The Federal Bureau of Investigation&#8217;s documents show Headley began planning the &#8220;Mickey Mouse Project&#8221; in October 2008 &#8212; just days before the 10-man Lashkar assault team used video footage he had gathered in five visits to Mumbai to stage an attack that claimed 163 lives. 

That month, Headley initiated an e-mail correspondence on the &#8220;Mickey Mouse Project&#8221; with Abdul Rehman Hashim Syed, a former Pakistan Army officer, who had become a ranking Lashkar commander in charge of the terror group&#8217;s networks in Bangladesh.

*During his first visit to Copenhagen in January 2009, Headley visited the offices of Jyllands Posten.* He expressed an interest in purchasing advertising space, claiming to be a representative of the Chicago-based First World Immigration. First World&#8217;s owner, Tahawwur Rana, was an old school friend of Headley&#8217;s, and the firm provided him cover for his operations in Mumbai.

*Later that year, Headley travelled to Pakistan at Syed&#8217;s invitation. Both are believed to have met with top Harkat ul-Jihad-e-Islami commander Illyas Kashmiri &#8212; an al-Qaeda linked jihadist, who is among Pakistan&#8217;s most-wanted men &#8212; at a training camp near Razmak, in Waziristan.*

Headley reacted with ire to a May 4, 2009 post on a web group run by former students of his school in Pakistan, claiming that there was little support for al-Qaeda and the Taliban in the North West Frontier Province.

&#8220;The bazaar,&#8221; Headley wrote of his own visit, &#8220;is bustling with Chechens, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Russians, Bosnians, some from European Union countries and, of course, our Arab brothers. *According to my [original emphasis] survey, the foreign population is a little less than a third of the total. Any Waziri or Mehsud I spoke to seemed grateful to God for the privilege of being able to host the Foreign Mujahideen.&#8221;*


Early on, Headley believed the &#8220;Mickey Mouse Project&#8221; had the Lashkar&#8217;s support. Late this summer though, the Lashkar lost interest in the Danish plot. Lashkar commander Sajid Mir, who played a key role in organising the Mumbai attacks, e-mailed Headley on July 3, asking to meet with him to discuss &#8220;some new investment plans&#8221;: code, the FBI says, for an attack in India.

However, in correspondence that continued until late August, it became clear that Headley was focussed on the &#8220;Mickey Mouse Project.&#8221; Late in August, Headley promised Mir he would to travel to Pakistan to discuss the Indian operation &#8212; but pushed forward with his Danish project.

In July 2008, Headley flew to Copenhagen and carried out a second round of reconnaissance. He returned to the U.S. on August 5, and was interviewed at Atlanta airport by a customs official &#8212; a consequence, it is likely, of his past criminal record for smuggling narcotics. Headley told the authorities he was in Europe on business for Rana&#8217;s immigration firm. However, FBI documents record, a search of Headley&#8217;s luggage &#8220;revealed no papers, flyers or any documents for First World&#8221;.

*Mir, worried at Headley&#8217;s silence during these weeks, sent an e-mail enquiring about his whereabouts on August 7. Syed was briefly detained by the Pakistani authorities during Headley&#8217;s European travels, and the Lashkar commander warned he might have betrayed Headley&#8217;s plans. *

In an extended September 17, 2009 phone conversation with Syed, Headley railed against Lashkar leaders like Mir who, *he asserted, had &#8220;rotten guts.&#8221; Instead of backing the &#8220;Mickey Mouse Project,&#8221; he complained, &#8220;their eyes are again in that direction [India]&#8221;. &#8220;I am just telling you,&#8221; he lectured Syed, &#8220;that the companies in your competition have started handling themselves in a far better way*.&#8221;

FBI agents also heard a frustrated Headley tell a contact in Pakistan that &#8220;business must go on.&#8221; &#8220;*I don&#8217;t care if I am working for Microsoft or for General Electric or Phillips*,&#8221; Headley said, an elliptical reference to the fact that he was little concerned with allegiance to particular jihadist groups as long as they offered him a platform to carry out the attacks he wanted. 

*Headley&#8217;s arrest in September compelled the Lashkar to drop its plans to attack the National Defence College. Bangladesh-based Afghan jihad veteran Abdul Mutaliq was charged with organising an attack on the Indian High Commission in Dhaka, timed to coincide with the anniversary of the November 26 attacks*. Police in Bangladesh held Mutaliq along with three Pakistani Lashkar operatives despatched by Syed last month, pre-empting the attacks.

The Hindu : Front Page : As Mumbai carnage unfolded, Headley planned next strike

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Khajur

*26/11 probe: US may ask for Pak major's extradition*
Rajeev Deshpande, TNN 9 December 2009, 09:00am IST

ON BOARD AIR INDIA ONE: The FBI team that visited India in the wake of the arrest of Lashkar-e-Taiba terror duo David Coleman Headley and Tahawwur Hussain Rana has not only provided their links to the 26/11 attacks but *also contacts with figures in Pakistan, including, possibly, serving officers of Pakistani army*.

Speaking to journalists on the way back from Moscow, foreign secretary Nirupama Rao said India would be "naturally" keen to interrogate Rana and Headley. "*I believe the FBI has given incriminating evidence and there are links to conspirators in Pakistan," *said Rao. 

*Meanwhile in Delhi, sources in the government indicated that FBI has provided details of the involvement of serving officers of Pakistan army in the 26/11 plot*. They also said that Mumbai police would file a supplementary chargesheet in the 26/11 case naming Headley. If the US indicts Rana in the 26/11 case, India will include his name as well in the chargesheet. 

India's complaint that Pakistan is not doing enough to bring the perpetrators of 26/11 to book is shared by the Russians. This is reflected in the India-Russia joint statement as well with the two sides noting that nations must act on the "prosecute or extradite" principle in dealing with terrorists. There is also mention of respecting UN resolutions on specific outfits -- read LeT -- that have been declared as terrorist organizations. 

Apart from Ajmal Kasab, Headley is another 26/11 accused in police custody in a country other than Pakistan. His role has emerged as more central to the attack on Mumbai than that of Fahim Ansari and Sabauddin, two other accused in Indian custody. 

*The US will certainly ask for the extradition of retired Pakistan army major Abdur Rehman Hashim Syed, who, according to the FBI chargesheet, was arrested in Pakistan earlier this year, but subsequently released*. 

The FBI team that was in New Delhi left for Pakistan on Monday. 

Until now, the FBI had not been permitted access to the 7 Pakistanis charged for the 26/11 attack in Pakistan. So its difficult to guess whether Pakistan will give any access to Rehman. According to sources, Pakistan's stock response has been that since he's retired, they had no control over Rehman's movements. 

It has to be remembered that Ilyas Kashmiri of HuJI, who allegedly worked closely with the LeT and Headley on the Mumbai attacks, was once a commander in Pakistan's elite Special Services Group. 

*According to sources familiar with the workings of the ISI, mid-level army officers are regularly "retired" and seconded off to the ISI, so the army can maintain plausible deniability if things go wrong*. 

26/11 probe: US may ask for Pak major's extradition - India - The Times of India


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## Khajur

*Headley planned synchronised attacks on Jewish houses in India - Hindustan Times*

Press Trust Of India
Mumbai, December 09, 2009
First Published: 16:51 IST(9/12/2009)
Last Updated: 17:01 IST(9/12/2009

The last visit of American terror suspect David Headley, before being arrested by the FBI, to India in March this year was to finalise synchronised terror strikes on Jewish houses located in five cities at the instance of terror outfit Lashker-e-Taiba.

Piecing together the travel trail of Headley during his visit to India in March this year, security agencies, who were briefed by FBI and US Department of Justice officials in New Delhi recently, are understood to have concluded that the US terror suspect was scouting only the Jewish targets including the El Al airlines office in Mumbai.

Headley, born to a Pakistani father and whose earlier name was Daood Gilani, has been charged by the FBI for conspiring in the audacious Mumbai attack of last year which left over 160 dead including six foreigners. On the Indian side, the National Investigating Agency (NIA), which was formed in the aftermath of 26/11, was probing the role of Headley and his Pakistani-Canadian accomplice Tahawwur Rana.

Sources privy to the investigations said that Headley had carried out reconnaissance of Israeli airlines -- El AI--office located at Cuffe Parade in March this year before moving to the national capital where he chose to stay in a small hotel at Pahargunj area.

Very quickly, the security agencies carried out the recce of the area and found a Chabad House, barely 300 metres from the hotel -- De Holiday Inn. 

The Chabad House in Pahargunj, Delhi is located in narrow lanes and is frequented generally by backpackers from Israel while either going to Dharamshala in Himachal Pradesh or to western parts of the country.

The sources said Headley also visited the house and posed as Jew while carrying out his reconnaissance mission for terror group Lashker.

Statements of a few have been recorded by the NIA, the sources said.

From Delhi, Headley travelled to Pushkar in the outskirts of Ajmer in Rajasthan where he insisted on a room opposite a Jewish prayer centre claiming he was a Jew and wanted "holy sight".

The hotel staff, in their statements to the NIA, said that 48-year-old Headley had insisted on the room view which was right opposite to the prayer hall of the Jew centre in Pushkar.

After staying there for three days, Headley moved to Goa where he stayed at a guest house located in Anjuna village along the coast of Arabian sea before proceeding towards Pune where he recced the area around Koregaon Park.

Though initially it was believed that he wanted to target the foreigners coming to the Osho Ashram, it was found later that he had scouted the area for targeting the Jewish prayer centre in the area.

Headley later left for Mumbai where he again went to the Cuffe Prade area and apparently firmed up some loose ends in targeting the Israel Airways office before flying to Pakistan from the Chatrapati Shivaji airport.


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## zombie

Not sure why the stupid Indian media keeps using the name David Headley. His actual name is Daood Sayed Gilani which he used for his entire life expect this mission. Its not like he met the PM of India with this name. 

Apparently an "American" sounding name is more interesting for the indian media which creates more masala than the typical kind of names that pops up in the media every other day associated with terrorism. Its not even like they refer to an alias. Sad that media has really stooped to such low level these days.

Who the hell cares about only this jerk. He was just another link in the group with a scout mission as his duties. So what information India needs more now to go about on another round of dupatta with tears in front of the rest of the world? If Pakistan is retarded, India is impotent and not really sure what is more pathetic.


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## Spring Onion

So the Mumbai is situated in USA??? if not why would US ask for extradition of anyone.

And Zombie your media also failed to mention or may be having some memory laps to mention headly was CIA agent too.


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## Goodperson

Culprits should not go scot free.


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## idea123

Jana said:


> So the Mumbai is situated in USA??? if not why would US ask for extradition of anyone.
> 
> And Zombie your media also failed to mention or may be having some memory laps to mention headly was CIA agent too.



Mumbai is in India and the attack on it killed Americans too, Hence the demand for extradition.
Headly was a CIA agent or not ,is unclear, but pakistan is the safe haven and epicenter for terrorism.


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## Hulk

Jana said:


> So the Mumbai is situated in USA??? if not why would US ask for extradition of anyone.
> 
> And Zombie your media also failed to mention or may be having some memory laps to mention headly was CIA agent too.



And he was recruited by Jana into CIA (as only recruiter can be so sure). Just kidding wanted to have some fun.


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## waraich66

US man denies Mumbai plot charge 

The FBI alleges Mr Headley attended militant training camps in Pakistan 
A US man has pleaded not guilty to charges of involvement in the deadly Mumbai (Bombay) attacks of a year ago.

David Headley, a Pakistani-American, is accused of having helped identify targets for the assaults which left 174 people dead, including nine gunmen. 

He was arrested over a plot to attack a Danish newspaper which had printed pictures of the Prophet Mohammed. 

On Monday, US justice officials released a raft of new charges related to the Mumbai attacks. 


DAVID HEADLEY 
Born in 1960 in the US to a Pakistani father and an American mother
Spent much of his childhood in Pakistan
Attended a military boarding school in Islamabad
Dropped out of school at 17
Joined his mother in the US after she divorced his father
Changed his name to David Headley in 2006
Made five extended trips to Mumbai between 2006 and 2008
FBI says he took pictures and made videotapes of various targets, including those attacked in 2008
Arrested in Chicago on 3 October 2009 as he was about to travel to Pakistan 
Mr Headley, 49, has been charged with six counts of conspiracy to bomb public places in India, to murder and maim people in India and Denmark, to provide material support to foreign terrorist plots, and to provide material support to the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba group. 

Mr Headley is also facing six counts of aiding and abetting the murder of US citizens in India. 

He was arrested on 3 October 2009 for allegedly planning terrorist attacks against the Danish newspaper which published cartoons about Islam. 

The Chicago branch of the FBI says David Headley attended Lashkar-e-Taiba training camps in Pakistan in 2002 and 2003, where he conspired to plan and carry out attacks in both India and Denmark. 

Prosecutors say Mr Headley changed his name from Daood Gilani in 2006 after he was told by members of Lashkar-e-Taiba that he would be travelling to India to carry out surveillance duties for the group. 

The FBI says his aim was to present himself as an American citizen without any links to Pakistan or Islam. 

After repeated trips to India in 2006 and 2008, investigators say he returned to Pakistan, where he would provide his alleged co-conspirators with photographs, videos and descriptions of locations he is accused of having staked out. 



The attacks in Mumbai were the result of extensive planning 
The FBI says Lashkar-e-Taiba instructed Mr Headley to take boat trips in and around Mumbai harbour with the goal of finding potential landing sites for the team which carried out the Mumbai attacks. 

Mr Headley is reported to be co-operating with the ongoing investigation into the attacks in Mumbai and the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten. 

His lawyer, John Theis, entered the not guilty plea on his client's behalf and waived his right to be indicted by a grand jury. 

No new information was released at the routine arraignment. The next hearing has been set for 12 January 2010.


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## god

CHICAGO: Terror suspect Tahawwur Hussain Rana complimented members of Lashkar-e-Taiba, saying they did a "good job" during the terror attacks in
Twitter	Facebook	Share
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Mumbai last year, US prosecutors have alleged. ( Watch Video )

According to a 10-page memo filed by US prosecutors in a court here on Monday, Rana asked co-conspirator David Coleman Headley to "pass along a message for me" to LeT Member A, whom Rana had given the name 'Khalid bin waleed'.

"In the world, if there had been...a medal for command, top class," the documents quote as Rana saying. It further adds that Headley then interrupts Rana and informs him that he already had passed that message and "I (Headley) took your (Rana's) name when I said it". Rana responded "there is no doubt, it is a very befitting name for him. Very good. Good job".

Headley then explained that while LeT Member A briefed the attackers on the targets, Headley identified a different LeT member by name as the trainer of the attackers--"Training was by Abu Qahafa....this Jamaat (group) prepares people really well".

Rana responded that "whatever mixture you guys have made, whichever person did it...yeah, there they stood their ground".

Prosecutors added that "far from advocating non-violence, Rana's own statements reveal his support for the brutal killing of 170 people...It is quite clear that Rana is no Gandhi".

Headley has been charged with conspiring in the 26/11 Mumbai attacks. Rana, through his lawyer Patrick Blegen, has denied that he was involved in the attacks that killed 167 people. Blegen was not available immediately for comment on the prosecutors' charges.

The documents filed by federal prosecutors also allege that Rana praised the terror outfit LeT when Headley mentioned that an LeT member would be used to carry out an attack on the National Defence College in India.

"After Headley states that 'we' would use LeT Member A to carry out the attack on the Defense College, Rana again offered praise for Let Member A and LeT: "They should be really commended. I appreciate them from my heart", Rana said in a secretly recorded conversation with Headley.

Headley last week pleaded not guilty to charges he faces in connection with the Denmark and India plots. Rana, a Pakistani native and Canadian citizen, is charged with providing material support to a conspiracy to commit a terrorist attack overseas. 

'Good job', Rana told LeT during Mumbai attack - US - World - The Times of India


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## Creder

again its ToI...bbbubbuuuulllll craaapppp


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## ssheppard

Creder said:


> again its ToI...bbbubbuuuulllll craaapppp



Here is some bull crap from some other sources: 

`Good job`, Rana told LeT during 26/11 attack

'Good job', Rana told LeT after Mumbai attacks


----------



## god

ssheppard said:


> Here is some bull crap from some other sources:
> 
> `Good job`, Rana told LeT during 26/11 attack
> 
> 'Good job', Rana told LeT after Mumbai attacks



so sorry but now it will be


again Indian media ... bulllllllllllllll crap


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## ambidex

Creder said:


> again its ToI...bbbubbuuuulllll craaapppp



I think people like you are running out of options and excuses. Grow up.


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## jupiter2007

god said:


> CHICAGO: Terror suspect Tahawwur Hussain Rana complimented members of Lashkar-e-Taiba, saying they did a "good job" during the terror attacks in
> Twitter	Facebook	Share
> Email	Print	Save	Comment
> Mumbai last year, US prosecutors have alleged. ( Watch Video )
> 
> According to a 10-page memo filed by US prosecutors in a court here on Monday, Rana asked co-conspirator David Coleman Headley to "pass along a message for me" to LeT Member A, whom Rana had given the name 'Khalid bin waleed'.
> 
> "In the world, if there had been...a medal for command, top class," the documents quote as Rana saying. It further adds that Headley then interrupts Rana and informs him that he already had passed that message and "I (Headley) took your (Rana's) name when I said it". Rana responded "there is no doubt, it is a very befitting name for him. Very good. Good job".
> 
> Headley then explained that while LeT Member A briefed the attackers on the targets, Headley identified a different LeT member by name as the trainer of the attackers--"Training was by Abu Qahafa....this Jamaat (group) prepares people really well".
> 
> Rana responded that "whatever mixture you guys have made, whichever person did it...yeah, there they stood their ground".
> 
> Prosecutors added that "far from advocating non-violence, Rana's own statements reveal his support for the brutal killing of 170 people...It is quite clear that Rana is no Gandhi".
> 
> Headley has been charged with conspiring in the 26/11 Mumbai attacks. Rana, through his lawyer Patrick Blegen, has denied that he was involved in the attacks that killed 167 people. Blegen was not available immediately for comment on the prosecutors' charges.
> 
> The documents filed by federal prosecutors also allege that Rana praised the terror outfit LeT when Headley mentioned that an LeT member would be used to carry out an attack on the National Defence College in India.
> 
> "After Headley states that 'we' would use LeT Member A to carry out the attack on the Defense College, Rana again offered praise for Let Member A and LeT: "They should be really commended. I appreciate them from my heart", Rana said in a secretly recorded conversation with Headley.
> 
> Headley last week pleaded not guilty to charges he faces in connection with the Denmark and India plots. Rana, a Pakistani native and Canadian citizen, is charged with providing material support to a conspiracy to commit a terrorist attack overseas.
> 
> 'Good job', Rana told LeT during Mumbai attack - US - World - The Times of India




 *A Lie Repeated A Thousand Times is Still a Lie.*


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## gubbi

jupiter2007 said:


> *A Lie Repeated A Thousand Times is Still a Lie.*



Like Constant Denial?


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## Iggy

jupiter2007 said:


> *A Lie Repeated A Thousand Times is Still a Lie.*



Yes thats why Pakistani government indicted LeT members..and also Headly being booked for 26/11 terrorist attacks by the US government..this all are bunch of lies..when will you guys start to getting out from the denial mode??

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## Creder

ssheppard said:


> Here is some bull crap from some other sources:
> 
> `Good job`, Rana told LeT during 26/11 attack
> 
> 'Good job', Rana told LeT after Mumbai attacks



lmao dude zee news ibn ??? bbbubbulllll crappp

oh and also you providing links from ibn and zee...just proves nobody gives two shi*ts about this stuff other than you guys


----------



## Creder

ambidex said:


> I think people like you are running out of options and excuses. Grow up.




k here's how it is.... i opened this read the first line " wuf wuf wuf wuf wuf wuf wuf "

sorry havent taken the classes where they teach you how to read stuff from ToI


----------



## rajeev

jupiter2007 said:


> *A Lie Repeated A Thousand Times is Still a Lie.*



I thought you would know. How Pakistanis were involved in Mumbai attacks, how they were involved in providing terrorists with "moral support" by funding terrorist activities across the border, by funding Kashmir separatists like Hurriyat to host propogonda machine, involving in Kargil (oops, did I say Kargil - it was Mujahadeen in that case, right?)

Sure ... we thought you know what you are saying. Or do you really mean that "Do as I say, not as I do! " - well that also works fine. 

State of Denial is giving you guys a bomb blast a day, does not matter it can be on the army HQ, or govt building or at market place. Pakistani friendly Taliban is providing enough support, isnt it? Ask Imran, he would explain you how Taliban is benefiting Pakistan.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

ssheppard said:


> Here is some bull crap from some other sources:
> 
> `Good job`, Rana told LeT during 26/11 attack
> 
> 'Good job', Rana told LeT after Mumbai attacks





god said:


> so sorry but now it will be
> 
> 
> again Indian media ... bulllllllllllllll crap





ambidex said:


> I think people like you are running out of options and excuses. Grow up.





seiko said:


> Yes thats why Pakistani government indicted LeT members..and also Headly being booked for 26/11 terrorist attacks by the US government..this all are bunch of lies..when will you guys start to getting out from the denial mode??



I think the issue being contested is that there needs to be some other credible source to back up these 'sensationalist' accounts in the Indian media. 

Surely since this was a memo filed by US prosecutors, there will be US/Western sources with the details of that memo that validate the material presented in the Indian media.

The skepticism of these accounts arises from the fact that the ToI has been publishing all sorts of 'anonymous sources' based stories maligning Pakistan related to the Headley/Rana case. 

Now this account does at least attribute a proper source (memo filed by US prosecutors) so I am not as skeptical of its veracity, but Pakistanis can be excused for being skeptical because of all the unsubstantiated rubbish published in the past few days.

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## Creder

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> I think the issue being contested is that there needs to be some other credible source to back up these 'sensationalist' accounts in the Indian media.
> 
> Surely since this was a memo filed by US prosecutors, there will be US/Western sources with the details of that memo that validate the material presented in the Indian media.
> 
> The skepticism of these accounts arises from the fact that the ToI has been publishing all sorts of 'anonymous sources' based stories maligning Pakistan related to the Headley/Rana case.
> 
> Now this account does at least attribute a proper source (memo filed by US prosecutors) so I am not as skeptical of its veracity, but Pakistanis can be excused for being skeptical because of all the unsubstantiated rubbish published in the past few days.



very true AM... I mean had they posted this article from a credible source like Toronto Star or something that doesn't show utter bias and mud slinging .. Id be willing to discuss it... But my issue with these people is they post constant garbage stuff from sources who have nothing better to do than try to get dirt on Pakistan...This article has also been posted in toronto star and it might be fairly accurate.


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## bones20

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> I think the issue being contested is that there needs to be some other credible source to back up these 'sensationalist' accounts in the Indian media.
> 
> Surely since this was a memo filed by US prosecutors, there will be US/Western sources with the details of that memo that validate the material presented in the Indian media.
> 
> The skepticism of these accounts arises from the fact that the ToI has been publishing all sorts of 'anonymous sources' based stories maligning Pakistan related to the Headley/Rana case.
> 
> Now this account does at least attribute a proper source (memo filed by US prosecutors) so I am not as skeptical of its veracity, but Pakistanis can be excused for being skeptical because of all the unsubstantiated rubbish published in the past few days.


What you are saying is understandable.

However, this is how it works:
- FBI officer personally came over at the instruction of Obama and advised the RAW and IB
- RAW and IB in turn handed out a set of questionnaire
- Indian media, you know will go any length to get any info on these transactions through internal sources. These sources typically oblige at the condition of anonymity.

So while these are anonymously quoted, does not mean they are made up. Tell me, since this episode of 26/11 what pertaining news from Indian media turned out false in THIS regard that -
- the perpetrators were Pakistanis
- they came via boat
- the handlers were Pakistanis
- Links to Pak army personal (now being uncovered by US)
All has now been proven and acknowledged by GOP.

However, do feel free to live in denial. The height of denial here (this thread was created today in a pak forum):
PakPassion - Pakistan Cricket Forum - Ajmal Kasab Interogation Video
They still believe Ajmal Kasab is not a Pakistani.

You could argue in the same vein that the Pakistani conspiracy tales should also be accorded merit. Unfortunately, they still lack in any factual findings all over these years and has lost reputation now. 

The WHOLE world is convinced about the web of terrorism being patronized, harbored, sympathized and nurtured within Pakistan by a section of state actors and society.

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## Nazru

At 11.02 in the video, a eye witness narrates, "There was a devout man behind me, and he called out for a muslim holy man to help him. When the terrorist heard, he killed him."
My God!!! Please destroy these terrorists, (and freedom fighters) from the face of earth.


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## Cheetah786

> YOU ARE NOT A MUSLIM IF OTHERS ARE NOT SAFE FROM YOU


 what these Animals did and are doing is disgusting in every way.


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## Nazru

Please watch the video in the thread 
defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/39908-terror-mumbai-dispatches-powerful-hbo-channel-4-documentary.html
before debating on any more Mumbai-Terror Conspiracy theories.


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## bones20

NSG_BlackCats said:


> For my India friends i have sumed up the analysis of Zaid Hamid( the great analyst from Pakistan) on Mumbai attack, from the above posted Video.
> 
> 1.Mosad- CIA- RSS- RAW Nexus!!
> 
> 2.Earlier he said Kasab is an Indian and his name is Amar Singh!! Now he is saying he was a Pakistani who was in Indian jail and it is really easy to plant evidence by exploiting him.
> 
> 3.Mumbai attack further evidence of Anglo-USA-RSS-Mosad Nexus.
> 
> 4.Col. Purohit wanted to have Indian govt. in exile in Israel. As per Zaid Hamid he said this during his trial in India.
> 
> 5.Indian main stream is hijacked by RSS, bajrang Dal
> 
> 6.Indian nuclear weapons have already gone to the hands of Indian extremists.
> 
> 7.Col. Purohit was planning a coup to take over india in nexus with Israel.
> 
> 8.There was specific American Intelligence that Taj Mahal Hotel will be attacked from sea on Oct 2008.
> 
> 9.India did not share any evidence with Interpol.
> 
> 10.Maharashtra Times the leading daily of Maharashtra have reported all the terrorist were talking in Marathi.



You are a spoiler  Revealed the whole story of this episode Ssshhahhh.

On a serious note, LOL, you watched the whole thing ?


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Correction

The media outlets in India are convinced that there are Terrorism supporters in Pakistan

Fact: 
Allies, and world was wrong to go invade , Afghanistan it messed up their economy and also destroyed and misplaced civilians

Kashmir is Part of Pakistan, and the regions has to go thru civilian 
voting to make sure it is returned to Pakistan. You can't keep an army in city to stop ppl from living. (Based on 1947 UN resolutions which has to be implemented). Soon military blance will be equal to some extent.

Stopping Pakistan waters in Dam's is violation of agreement between India and Pakistan - which India is violating

There are terrorist in Pakistan , so are terrorist in India  Shiv Sena is a Terrorist organization they routinely vendalize and terrorize ppl in India , bu they are protected by gov locally , so in essese Indian gov is also supporting terrorist elements 

Also Terrorists destroyed some mosques in india , I think it was a big issue, but again the Indian gov supported , the Terrorist acts by not acting on that legal court case for 14 years + so that is supporting act of Terrorism I am being very practical

If Indians are concerned about Terrorism they should note we also have lost hotel buildings in Pakistan due to bomb blast , I doubt our gov would be interested in blowing up hotels when we can gain more by resolving Kashmir issue and trade... etc

Sure , now - Act in Mumbai happened 

BUT

a) Lets not forget Indian Army was being investigated by some one in India who got 
murdered that night - would an army have a stake in that ?? Why not ...how esle
would anyone break defences?? Unless someone left the door open ??


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## SMC

bones20 said:


> On a serious note, LOL, you watched the whole thing ?



Good question. Why do some indians care so much about conspiracy theories?


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## bones20

Ahsan_R said:


> Good question. Why do some indians care so much about conspiracy theories


To his credit, He is variety entertainment. I wish this guy visits Mumbai some time. Want to see how he fares there.


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## SMC

Doubt he will oblige.


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## Stumper

Barrett said:


> Brother i guess you didn't bother reading the post and the questions of Kavita, confusingly reporting an information is something else and vest disappearing and showing a different body, blood disappearing etc are two completely different things so at least someone tried answering the questions unlike the fellow country men .... I will be really happy to see some more mature arguments being put forward instead of pics being posted, in reply to Kavita's questions and the interview of Amaresh Misra
> 
> Radio: Amaresh Misra & Ahmed Quraishi on Chicago?s ABN Radio Pak Alert Press



Barret : Maybe im digressing .. but whats the issue all about? Mrs.Karkare is asking questions about the missing vest ... to which the JJ hospital staff have responded that they could not locate it as quite a many victims were brought in during that chaos and they could not pin point which jacket did karkare wore?

Karkares vest not pierced; Gafoor blames colleagues


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## vnomad

Cheetah786 said:


> what these Animals did and are doing is disgusting in every way.



All true. Terrorism has no religion. 


BTW please don't quote posts which aim to spam or flame. Leave it to the mods. It sort of defeats the purpose of removing the post.


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## Iggy

There was an incident in CST where terrorist killed a child in front of her mother and also shoot the mother who is pregnant killing her unborn child..she is a Muslim..how can those bastards justify that??2 children of her lost their lives in front of her..how can she forget this?


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## Gazzi

This shows has highlighted how massively there was an intelligence failure on the Indian side and the US. Headley was monitored for quite a while, his phone and conversations recorded which clearly shows he was on the US radar but like any black ops, the US never tends to get other countries involved. Had they done so in advance then maybe this could have been nipped in the bud a long time back. Then again..........here are bombs going off in Pakistan and Afghanistan, dont see the point why Pakistan should be more concerned with the Mumbai attacks over their won, the Indian are reaping what they sow. Its their problem.


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## BanglaBhoot

*An American man charged with plotting the attacks on Mumbai was a double agent for both the United States and al-Qaeda terror group Lashkar e Taiba, Indian officials have claimed. 

By Dean Nelson in New Delhi *

David Headley, a Pakistan-born American national arrested in Chicago in October, is alleged to have carried out reconnaissance missions in the run-up to the Mumbai attacks, in which 166 people were killed.

He is also believed to have been present in the terrorists' "control room" in Pakistan where their handlers directed the killing spree over an open telephone line.

According to Indian officials, Headley travelled to India again in March this year, with the knowledge of American agencies who did not inform their Indian counterparts. During the trip, Headley is alleged to have collected intelligence for future terrorist attacks on civilian and military targets, including India's National Defence College.

Indian officials are desperate to question Headley but have been frustrated by American refusals to grant them access. A team of Indian investigators travelled to Washington shortly after Headley was arrested in October but soon returned after their American counterparts told them they would not be able to meet him.

They want to question him about the Mumbai attacks involved Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency in any way and the role of Indian extremists in providing logistical support.

American officials say that under US law they cannot force any person in their custody to give evidence to foreign agencies. But Indian intelligence officers have questioned why Washington is not doing more to help their own inquiry and suggested Headley's connections with American intelligence agencies is behind the reluctance.

Headley, who was born Daood Syed Gilani and schooled in Pakistan before moving to Philadelphia with his American mother in 1977, was convicted of smuggling heroin into the United States in 1998. He served only 15 months in jail after agreeing to become an informant for the Drugs Enforcement Administration (DEA). He changed his name to David Headley in 2006.

According to Indian officials he continued to serve as a DEA informant until shortly before his arrest in October. Indian intelligence sources believe Headley may have been recruited to work for the CIA which, along with the FBI, shared intelligence with the DEA and other government agencies after the creation of the National Counter-Terrorism Centre in 2004.

B. Raman, a former senior official in India's intelligence agency, said: "He was working for Lashkar e Taiba, taking photographs and video recordings of the [Mumbai] hotels and harbour. And he was an agent for the DEA on drugs, so in that sense he was a double agent.

"Indian officials are very keen to question him about his network, but we can't because we might find out about any connections with the CIA or ISI. They don't want that to happen. The Americans say 'you ask us what you want us to find out and we'll share the information'," he added. 

Mumbai suspect is US double agent, India claims - Telegraph


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## MastanKhan

Hi,

There are two people speaking on the telephone---the controller is speaking in urdu---the reciever is speaking in punjabi---a basically village type punjabi---.

That is how AJMAL KASAB should be speaking --- maybe a little thicker accent than him---due to his background as illeterate labour---.

This Ajmal Kasab in interview is someone else with a different ethnicity and an accent of a non punjabi.

The scenes are horrifying and are truly shocking---and the deed worse than that..

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## Valiant_Soul

Just FYI, I am quite an example of growing up in a place but never, even since childhood, having the accent of that native place. Perhaps people need to broaden their concept about what constitutes concrete evidence. 

It is one thing to say that a person's accent is likely to be of the native place and another to say that the accent of the person establishes that he does not belongs to a particular place.


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## MastanKhan

Valiant_Soul said:


> Just FYI, I am quite an example of growing up in a place but never, even since childhood, having the accent of that native place. Perhaps people need to broaden their concept about what constitutes concrete evidence.
> 
> It is one thing to say that a person's accent is likely to be of the native place and another to say that the accent of the person establishes that he does not belongs to a particular place.




Hi,

You will go round and round and at the end it would look foolish---listen and learn---it is not a matter of growing up and having the accent of the local place----it is the accent of his household---.

Are you saying that you don't have the accent of your household that you lived in and that of the neighbours kids---think again what you are saying.

Here is a poverty ridden family---a punjabi village family---little kids are out of the house house running aroud with other street urchins---all his life----so what he gets---the accents of an indian or an afghan---and then he seeks forgiveness from " Bhagwan mujhey maaf karey "---and calls his Ameer as " Mukhiya " and calls the color of eye " BROWN " in english----you have no clue about the illeteracy in punjab---.

And then in comparison---the recordings of the phone conversation---listen to the punjabi in those.

A DNA test would be the final test---it would be the LITMUS test.


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## Khajur

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> There are two people speaking on the telephone---the controller is speaking in urdu---the reciever is speaking in punjabi---a basically village type punjabi---.
> 
> That is how AJMAL KASAB should be speaking --- maybe a little thicker accent than him---due to his background as illeterate labour---.
> 
> This Ajmal Kasab in interview is someone else with a different ethnicity and an accent of a non punjabi.
> 
> The scenes are horrifying and are truly shocking---and the deed worse than that..



Ajmal kasab was *speaking in urdu *during his interrogation with that marathi cop, with a clear punjabi accent as he would in any case ,not exactly like a mahajir or indian muslim whose mother tongue is urdu.

Ajmal kasab was forced to speak in urdu instead of punjabi with that cop becasue he wouldnt understand punjabi at all and he even struggled with urdu/hindi while questioning kasab.

*Pakistani govt has already officially accepted that Ajmal kasab is a pakistani citizen.*


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## rajeev

I dont understand why Indian government is silent with so much overwhelming evidence of this? Is the government not responsible for protection of the people? If terrorists are eminating from a country for 20 years and that government either are not willing to or cant clean up the house, shouldn't the Indian govt bomb the terrorist camps?

What sort of protection do we have? It has been going on years and years and there is no counteraid, no counter measure? What is the point of having military if there is no internal protection to avoid it and no external deterence to neutralize it?


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## sonicboom

*India: Was Mumbai suspect a double agent for US?*

The Indian press is abuzz with news that Indian Home Ministry officials are investigating whether a terror suspect in the Mumbai attacks, David Headley from Chicago, was working as a 'double agent' with the US.

By Huma Yusuf / December 16, 2009 

The Indian press is abuzz with news that Indian Home Ministry officials have said they are investigating whether Pakistani-American terror suspect David Coleman Headley was working as a "double agent." 

Indian officials reportedly raised questions about Mr. Headleys links with US intelligence agencies  even as another terror suspect accused of involvement in the 2008 Mumbai attacks was denied bail by a US federal court. These latest and widely-publicized accusations against Headley are expected to put pressure on Indias ruling Congress Party, which has emphasized closer ties with the US as part of its foreign policy. 

The US has not allowed Indian authorities to interrogate Headley over the Mumbai attacks, much to India's consternation. 

According to he Hindustan Times, Indian Home Ministry officials raised questions about Headleys involvement with the American intelligence agency.

India is investigating whether a Chicago man accused of helping plan the deadly 2008 Mumbai siege was a double agent working for the United States and a Pakistan-based militant group, an official said on Wednesday.

"India is looking into whether Headley worked as a double agent. That is one of the many angles we are probing," a home ministry official said .

Indian media reported that New Delhi was suspicious because the United States had not shared vital information about Headley's movements prior to his arrest.

Headley could have been a member of the US Drug Enforcement Agency which allowed him to make frequent trips to Pakistan and gain access to the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) militant group.

The Times of India reports that Indian officials suspect that the CIA knew about Headleys link with the banned Pakistani militant outfit, Lashkar-e-Taiba, one year before the Mumbai attacks, but did not alert Indian agencies.

The [Indian] investigators believe that the US agencies kept away the information from India and never allowed the Pakistani-origin Headley to get "exposed".

The 39-year old terror suspect, arrested by FBI for his role in Mumbai attacks, had visited India in March 2009  four months after Mumbai attack carried out by LeT  but FBI still did not inform India that Headley is a LeT operative, apparently fearing he could be arrested in India.

According to the Times of India, Indian officials will also be investigating how Headleys credit card bills were settled in American banks while the suspect was traveling through India.

The Hindu, an Indian daily, reports that highly placed government sources said if [Headley] was given lesser punishment in a U.S. court, it would only strengthen Indias suspicion that he was a 'double agent'."

As Indian officials debate the role played by Headley in carrying out terror attacks in Mumbai in November 2008, a federal US court has ruled that Headleys alleged accomplice, Tahawwur Rana, is to remain in detention, reports The New York Times. A judge denied Pakistani-Canadian Mr. Rana bail on the ground that he is a flight risk with substantial resources and immigration expertise.

According to the Hindustan Times, Rana is to be charged with a direct link to a terror conspiracy, and, if convicted, could face life imprisonment. But Indian analysts fear that US agencies will want to tap Rana for more intelligence on terrorist movement rather than allowing him to go to jail in Mumbai, which many Indians want.

Some are speculating that having trapped Headley and turned him approver, the prosecution will use the 26/11 link in Monday's memorandum to do the same with Rana. He clearly dealt with retired Pakistani army officer Abdur Rehman Hasim Syed, alias "Pasha", a conduit to Ilyas Kashmiri, one of Pakistan's most-wanted terrorists. US may be more interested in forcing Rana, who ran an immigration service, to tell them if he used it to facilitate the movements of terrorists, and who and where they are.

Headley's alleged involvement in the Mumbai attacks has recently strained US-India relations, a cornerstone of the ruling Congress Party's foreign policy. Last week, Indian authorities announced that they would be changing visa regulations for American tourists, requiring them to take a 60-day break between each exit and re-entry to India, reported the Hindustan Times. 

India: Was Mumbai suspect a double agent for US? / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com


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## MastanKhan

Khajur said:


> Ajmal kasab was *speaking in urdu *during his interrogation with that marathi cop, with a clear punjabi accent as he would in any case ,not exactly like a mahajir or indian muslim whose mother tongue is urdu.
> 
> Ajmal kasab was forced to speak in urdu instead of punjabi with that cop becasue he wouldnt understand punjabi at all and he even struggled with urdu/hindi while questioning kasab.
> 
> *Pakistani govt has already officially accepted that Ajmal kasab is a pakistani citizen.*





Sir,

Please---you need to stop assuming----this was not urdu from a punjabi---secondly---illeterate villagers in punjab don't speak urdu---you have to listen in----.

If this is the evidence---then I care less what india has---this evidence as it stands alone ( interrogation video) is fraudulent and deceitful.


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## DavyJones

Mastan Khan - man chill out. There is no point trying to prove Kasab is not Pakistani - he had been trained to confuse people if he was caught - how do you know if language training was not part of his training. Btw he is a brightchap - heard he has learnt some Marathi during court proceedings - now you'll claim he is from Maharastra


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## DavyJones

Mastan Khan - Yea lets start the war in the subcontinent - just leave your nukes aside and wait till we destroy your Army, Navy and Air Force - it's a no contest an Indo - Pak war so why even talk about it.


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## DavyJones

lol.. I think we want Russia to be the second umpire and US as the third umpire (in case of referrals) - but seriously what will war achieve ? And what did Mumbai achieve except creating more hatred and problems?


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## Iggy

lolz guys why are you discussing about war now??MK sir I have lots of respect for you..Sir you have to consider that Kazab was a pakistani citizen was confirmed by Pakistani govt and the media 

Kasab is our citizen, admits Pakistan

and also Bushy told in another thread that he watched the vedio link provided there and he said he didnt hear Kasab saying Bhagwan..( i am nt able to confirm it because i logd in from the office and we cant use headphones )


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## MastanKhan

DavyJones said:


> Mastan Khan - man chill out. There is no point trying to prove Kasab is not Pakistani - he had been trained to confuse people if he was caught - how do you know if language training was not part of his training. Btw he is a brightchap - heard he has learnt some Marathi during court proceedings - now you'll claim he is from Maharastra




Hi,

I am only discussing about the person in the interrogation video and nothing else---.

You have to learn a lot son---when a person is deeply wounded and is in a stressful situation---he comes out in his native language always---about the linguistic abilities---you must be joking---grow up son---if you have not heard desi punjabi jangli punjabi accent you will be clueless---and if you have some conscience, you will feel ashamed about believing in the lie.

Even extremely educated punjabis cannot hide their punjabi accents through years of college and university education---

" A bright chap " ---what are you on----this is a poor brick layer---excuse---not even a brick layer---but one who worked at the brick kiln, moulding bricks---illeterate amongst the illeterate.

Unless there is no DNA test with his parents---there is no truth.

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## DavyJones

hmm.. Mastan Khan - i guess it's pointless then - I say he is a Pakistani (so does 90&#37; of the rest of the world and Pak government, FBI etc.!) - you disagree.. I agree that you have the right to disagree. Sorry but my knowledge of Punjabi accent is rather limited but I know that Kasab and 26/11 attackers are Pakistanis. Talking about DNA tests - Kasab's parents have to come forward for that - wait - where has Pakistan whisked them off to ?


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## Skeptic

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> Unless there is no DNA test with his parents---there is no truth.



As mentioned before DNA samples were provided when asked for. For the rest of argument, all the people who count, have accepted that Kasab is a Pakistani, I don't think GoI will be interested in your personal opinion or conviction. All the people who matter have been provided with sufficient evidence for then to be convinced of his Nationality.


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## MastanKhan

Khajur said:


> Ajmal kasab was *speaking in urdu *during his interrogation with that marathi cop, with a clear punjabi accent as he would in any case ,not exactly like a mahajir or indian muslim whose mother tongue is urdu.
> 
> Ajmal kasab was forced to speak in urdu instead of punjabi with that cop becasue he wouldnt understand punjabi at all and he even struggled with urdu/hindi while questioning kasab.
> 
> *Pakistani govt has already officially accepted that Ajmal kasab is a pakistani citizen.*





Hi,

Standard rule of all interrogations is that the interrogator speaks the actual language of the one being interrogated and is familiar with all the nuances, intricacies and subtleties of the expressions---so that all the information is revealed and nothing stays hidden.

Also the reason behind it is---that if there is any discrepency during the trial---in what 'Kasab' was saying and what was understood would put an egg on the face of the prosecution.

Why do you think that the u s is paying $2,20000 dollars a year to field interrogators in iraq and afg---so they can translator can delve deeper into what the interviewee is saying.

Again, I am not talking about the atrocities committed by the killers---I am only commenting on this particular interrogation

You---my indian colleagues need to get off your high horses for the moment---come to the ground and think like regular people---.

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## BlackenTheSky

You will not accept he is indian and we will not accept that he is from pakistan.simple as that


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## MastanKhan

Hi,

Again----I am not denying or agreeing---Kasab maybe a pakistani citizen---but this person being interrogated his VERNACULAR is not illeterate desi punjabi. Please---that is all I am saying. There is more to it than meets the eye.


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## DavyJones

Thank god Kasab was caught - else Pakistan would have washed it's hands off the attack. 
The world would have notbelieved our side of the story as well. Today there is not a single person in the West who does not know about the LeT - it's links with the ISI and Pakistan has been discredited. Hopefully it stops this useless sponsoring of terrorism and comes to talk with no guns in its hands.

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## BlackenTheSky

the government of pakistan still denying that kasab is from pakistan.?right


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## DavyJones

No - government of Pakistan has accepted that he is a Pak national. In fact they have arrested Lakvi and LeT terrorists for the attacks after US pressure.


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## Skeptic

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Again----I am not denying or agreeing---Kasab maybe a pakistani citizen---but this person being interrogated his VERNACULAR is not illeterate desi punjabi. Please---that is all I am saying. There is more to it than meets the eye.


Then lets see what does meet the eye rather your eye.... 
1. Kasab has been photographed and filmed and identified by several eye witnesses including reputed Journalists, common commuters to a 11 year old girl
2. The entire plan was hatched in Pakistan by Let - accepted by Pakistani authorities by arresting Lakhwi and gang
3. DNA samples of not only Kasab but rest of the terrorists were provided to GoP. We have no official words from them thereafter meaning they accept the authenticity of the same.
4. Whether Kasab told a lie about his humble background or learned new languages while in training I dont give a rats a** for that. What is more important - He did receive his training in Pakistan and terror camps which are producing these scums o the face of humanity
5. We can keep on arguing over trivial details of a word here and pronunciation there, but the fact will remain there is no maybe when we say Kasab is a Pakistani. That much is official and if you have a problem, raise it with local authorities via petitions.
6. Kasab's hometown was unearthed by Pakistani Journalists, who have since been put in Jail.

So the bottom (and official) line is that these were non-state Pakistanis, who trained and planned in Pakistan, Kasab certainly was part of the group and is not planted (as suggested by many conspiracy theorists). He was seen shooting indiscriminately at CST and Cama Hospital by several people. He is being prosecuted for his crimes.

If his accent is the only way you can point and scream of foul play, it will be pretty fruitless. Its just a trivial detail in much larger scene of things. It would mean that all the witnesses are planted, all the photographs were staged and the dead body of constable who caught him is fabricated. Too many assumptions for too small a detail.

If you still have more than what meets the eye, check with an 
optician.


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## vnomad

Mastan Khan,

As you say lets forget about atrocities committed and nationalities for a minute and just purely focus on Kasab's accent at the interview.

My knowledge of linguistics is far from excellent, but I'm pretty sure that it was a Punjabi accent. Though I can't confirm with certainty that it was a Pakistani Punjabi accent(they're not very different). And I'm completely sure it wasn't a non-Punjabi Indian accent.

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## TaimiKhan

vnomad said:


> Mastan Khan,
> 
> As you say lets forget about atrocities committed and nationalities for a minute and just purely focus on Kasab's accent at the interview.
> 
> My knowledge of linguistics is far from excellent, but I'm pretty sure that it was a Punjabi accent. Though I can't confirm with certainty that it was a Pakistani Punjabi accent(they're not very different). And I'm completely sure it wasn't a non-Punjabi Indian accent.



There words and accent that he used most of the time has nothing to do with the Punjabi or other languages spoken over here in Pakistan. I myself am very surprised as i have lived in all the four provinces, but non of the words and accent i have heard here except for Indian TV channels. 

I myself am amazed with this interrogation video. Seen it first time even.

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## ek_indian

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Allies, and world was wrong to go invade , Afghanistan it messed up their economy and also destroyed and misplaced civilians



I think it is offtopic.



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Kashmir is Part of Pakistan, and the regions has to go thru civilian
> voting to make sure it is returned to Pakistan. You can't keep an army in city to stop ppl from living. (Based on 1947 UN resolutions which has to be implemented). Soon military blance will be equal to some extent.



Last time we checked it was "disputed" region by Pakistani POV. However this is offtopic here. The topic has been discussed in this forum where we can gain good lot of information.



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Stopping Pakistan waters in Dam's is violation of agreement between India and Pakistan - which India is violating



Again offtopic. My knowledge says that Pakistan lost in international court for the case. I need some update from senior members but in some relevant thread.



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> There are terrorist in Pakistan , so are terrorist in India  Shiv Sena is a Terrorist organization they routinely vendalize and terrorize ppl in India , bu they are protected by gov locally , so in essese Indian gov is also supporting terrorist elements



First SS is a political party. It was *never* involved outside India. They lost badly in the recent elections. They are political opponents (Congress led UPA) of the centre and state government. I request you to check the facts before writing posts. Also this was not related to thread.



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Also Terrorists destroyed some mosques in india , I think it was a big issue, but again the Indian gov supported , the Terrorist acts by not acting on that legal court case for 14 years + so that is supporting act of Terrorism I am being very practical



I assume you are referring to Babri Masjid demolition. GoI admitted (I agree too) that this was a matter of national shame. But it is the Indians again who investigated and presented the reports. The political wing who supported these, failed in last two elections. Again this was not related to topic.



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> If Indians are concerned about Terrorism they should note we also have lost hotel buildings in Pakistan due to bomb blast , I doubt our gov would be interested in blowing up hotels when we can gain more by resolving Kashmir issue and trade... etc



I personally feel sorry for whatever is happening in Pakistan. But India is not related to those. I am not taking the _undisclosed evidences _on Indian involvement into account here. I hope Pakistan will sort its problem soon. Kashmir is not relevant for this Headley case.



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Sure , now - Act in Mumbai happened
> 
> BUT
> 
> a) Lets not forget Indian Army was being investigated by some one in India who got
> murdered that night - would an army have a stake in that ?? Why not ...how esle
> would anyone break defences?? Unless someone left the door open ??



I think it is useless to explain. The so-called Samjhauta blast was not carried out by Purohit as he is cleared in this case. He is going under trail for some other case. If he is guilty, he will surely be sentenced. Bringing the case in every India related thread is not a good practise.

@topic:
I agree that we should wait for some more information. The agencies are doing their job and soon it will be out. The article seems to be written on a preliminary outputs which I admit, is too early to conclude. Till then everyone is free to specualte and create his/her own theory but it can not be treated as proof including Indian media.

Lastly, I see an attempt to malign Indian media. It is better to refute the post/report rather than just calling it a BS. It is interesting to see that certain members here are leaders in picking up the same ToI articles when it is targeting India but cry loud if it publishes about their respeective countries. Need to think.


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## vnomad

taimikhan said:


> There words and accent that he used most of the time has nothing to do with the Punjabi or other languages spoken over here in Pakistan. I myself am very surprised as i have lived in all the four provinces, but non of the words and accent i have heard here except for Indian TV channels.



TV channels? Come now.... he sounded absolutely _nothing_ like what news hosts sound like. The typical news channel guy has an excellent command of Hindi and are invariably accentless(from an Indian perspective). Kasab on the other hand had a pretty strong accent.



> I myself am amazed with this interrogation video. Seen it first time even.



I didn't even know it existed until I saw this broadcast. The part when the handlers ordered the terrorists to execute the hostages at Nariman house was absolutely chilling. Even the terrorists seemed reluctant to carry it out.


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## TaimiKhan

vnomad said:


> TV channels? Come now.... he sounded absolutely _nothing_ like what news hosts sound like. The typical news channel guy has an excellent command of Hindi and are invariably accentless(from an Indian perspective). Kasab on the other hand had a pretty strong accent.



I said TV channels, not Indian News Channels, come one buddy, don't get so emotional that you can't differentiate what i meant and what you took it. I meant the normal indian channels of different nature that we have watched so far.


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## Khajur

taimikhan said:


> There words and accent that he used most of the time has nothing to do with the Punjabi or other languages spoken over here in Pakistan. I myself am very surprised as i have lived in all the four provinces, but non of the words and accent i have heard here except for Indian TV channels.
> 
> I myself am amazed with this interrogation video. Seen it first time even.



I know many urdu words whille i never studied urdu,but picked off from some bollywood lyrics.If i visit pakistan ,i'll use urdu words e,g say Yakin(believe) instead of saying Biswas in hindi, for better understaning of a urdus speaker.

Similarly ,kasab talking in Urdu lashed with pure hindi words ,that he most probably picked up from Bollywood movies or television which very popular in pakistan ,more among the poor section of the society who dont understand english...heck even afghans watch indian movies and can speak in hindi/urdu if needed.


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## Khajur

TruthTube. tv** 5/5 DISPATCHES ISLAMIC TERROR IN MUMBAI PART 5 Video

Handlers are talking in both punjabi and urdu interchagably with the terrorists .
Convesations are clearly unbelieveblle and grusome to be easlily accepted as real life incident.

Terrorist:Mujhe fire lag gayi hey...

handler:kahan lagga hai...kahan lagga hai(in a tone as if he cares)??


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## Stumper

I was arrested 20 days before 26/11: Kasab: Rediff.com India News




> Mohammed Ajmal Amir Kasab , the lone terrorist captured in the 26/11 attacks in Mumbai, on Friday stood his ground in the witness box while recording his statement under Section 313 of the Code of Criminal Procedure (dealing with the power to examine the accused).
> 
> He rejected all the evidence produced against him so far in the special court.
> 
> He also stunned everybody present when he said that he was arrested 20 days before the November 26, 2008, attacks, from Juhu Chowpatty in north-west Mumbai.
> 
> Kasab told the court: "I was in police custody 20 days before the November 26, 2008, attacks and they (the Mumbai police) produced me as the lone captured terrorist on the night of November 26 and 27.
> 
> "I was roaming at Juhu Chowpatty when the Mumbai police arrested me. I had come to Mumbai to watch a movie. I was told by many boys in my village (Faridkhot in Punjab , Pakistan) about it (movies). I was arrested when I was looking out for a place to rent. I had a legal Pakistani passport and a Sony Ericsson-500 mobile phone on me," Kasab told the court.
> 
> Kasab rejected all the evidence presented by the prosecution against him.
> 
> "I was not there. I don't know anything. The Mumbai police have fabricated all the evidence against me," he told Judge M L Tahiliyani while deposing during the Mumbai terror attacks trial.
> 
> He alleged, 'There must have one senior police official who has tutored all the witnesses as the language, descriptions and idioms used by all of them sound alike."
> 
> Kasab was referring to several witnesses identifying him in the courtroom as the batku (short) terrorist and his associate Abu Ismail as the 'tall' terrorist. He emphasised this point several times before the judge.
> 
> "All witnesses must have seen my look-alike with Abu Ismail," he claimed.
> 
> Kasab also denied that he was present at the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus during the terror strike, where he and Ismail allegedly gunned down several people.
> 
> "It was easy for all the witnesses to identify me in court as by then my photographs has been flashed across the world as the person who was in CST during the attack, when the two terrorists fired at the people and threw hand grenades," he told the court.
> 
> Kasab told the judge that his earlier confessions, accepting all the charges against him, before the magistrate was taken by force by the police.
> 
> But he admitted that he belonged to Fardikot village in Pakistan's Punjab province and was approximately 20 years old.
> 
> In the courtroom, Kasab initially stood with his head bowed, betraying no emotions or signs of apprehension before his testimony. He was made to sit inside the witness box on a stool.
> 
> He also answered all the questions posed by the judge loudly and clearly. Judge Tahiliyani recorded only those statements given by Kasab that were relevant to the case.
> 
> He rejected the evidence of a witness, Bharat Tamore, that he was seen with ten terrorists at Badhwar Park when they alighted from a dinghy there.
> 
> Kasab said, "Do baatein bolkar katham karna chaahtha hoon, aaj bhi mujhe bolne ka mauka nahin mila tho," (I want to finish by saying two lines, if I don't get a chance to speak then.)
> 
> The judge cut him short and told him that he had to answer questions the court put to him.
> 
> Several questions were put to Kasab based on the evidences given by witnesses. Asked about the dinghy, Kasab said that he did not know anything about that. "I saw the dingy for the first time in the court," he said.
> 
> Asked whether he confessed before the magistrate, Kasab said that he had confessed but it had been not recorded properly.
> 
> Kasab, in a statement to the court, also denied that he had planted a bomb in a taxi.
> 
> Kasab denied that he had told the magistrate that he and Abu Ismail had hired a taxi to CST. He also said that he had not told the magistrate that he planted a bomb underneath the driver's seat while Ismail was talking to the driver.
> 
> "I did not tell the magistrate that on reaching CST, we saw a lesser crowd than what was shown to us in a training camp in Pakistan," Kasab said.
> 
> "I did not contact Abu Hamza (absconding accused). My mobile was lost and I was not in a position to talk to anybody," he said.
> 
> To a question that witness Natwarlal, father of a 11-year-old girl who was injured in the attack, had seen him and another terrorist at CST, Kasab replied that he was not present there.
> 
> "Maybe Natwarlal had said that there was firing on people but I was not there -- I don't know," Kasab said.
> 
> About Abu Ismail, Kasab said, "I don't know who he is. Ismail may have been involved in the attack but I don't know him."
> 
> Dressed in a white kurta, Kasab entered the court at 11.30 am. Kasab's medical report was perused by the court and the Judge noted that he did not have any mental illness.
> 
> "There is nothing of adverse concern. He does not have any complaint (and) as such he is fit to give a statement," the Judge said.
> 
> A medical examination of Kasab was conducted because his lawyer, K B Pawar, had earlier told the court that Kasab was not fit to give a statement.
> 
> Enquiries were made about his age and it was found that he was not a juvenile at the time of the offence and, therefore, he was tried by the court, the Judge said. The Judge also noted that Kasab was not a juvenile when the crime was committed.
> 
> Kasab also claimed that he had been interrogated by Federal Bureau of Investigation officials and that David Headley, charged with conspiracy in the 26/11 attacks in a US court, was one of them. Judge M L Tahiliyani, however, told Kasab that he should first answer the questions put to him by the court and then say whatever he wanted to.
> 
> At this point, defence lawyer, Ejaz Naqvi, defending another accused Sabbahudin Ahmed, told the Judge that Kasab had named Headley and that it should be recorded.
> 
> The judge, however, told the lawyer that he would first finish with Kasab's statement and that Kasab was free to say whatever he wanted after that.
> 
> Kasab added, "I totally deny the confession made before the Magistrate -- I was beaten up by the police and was interrogated by foreigners and one of them was Headley."
> 
> Headley, a suspected Lashkar-e-Tayiba operative, was arrested by the FBI in October for plotting terror attacks in India and Denmark.


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## DavyJones

hmmm - great lookalike theory by Kasab! Wonder if he has got in touch with the ISI


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## Stumper

DavyJones said:


> hmmm - great lookalike theory by Kasab! Wonder if he has got in touch with the ISI



No .. David Headley interrogated him. Chap is learning fast


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## Awesome

No more Zaid hamid threads, keep the discussions to the sticky thread.


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## vnomad

taimikhan said:


> I said TV channels, not Indian News Channels, come one buddy, don't get so emotional that you can't differentiate what i meant and what you took it. I meant the normal indian channels of different nature that we have watched so far.



I okay I misunderstood that part. But, I personally haven't seen anything remotely resembling that accent in any TV channel either, with the exception of a few regional channels(Haryana, Punjab and J&K).


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## MastanKhan

vnomad said:


> I didn't even know it existed until I saw this broadcast. The part when the handlers ordered the terrorists to execute the hostages at Nariman house was absolutely chilling. Even the terrorists seemed reluctant to carry it out.



Vnomad,

I never knew that it existed tille I accidently cliked on that link.

It was truly shocking to hear that man calmy order the execution of innocent people---the instructor was talking like a lover coaxing his beloved to do the unthinkable---that was the most fearsome part of the transaction---how much control he had over his voice---how calm he was ordering the deaths of helpless people. It was truly an eye opener.

I have known and read about this kind of control but listeing to it first hand, just makes the hair stand up on your body.

These people have truly mastered the art of mind control---there was so much love and compassion in that guys voice when he was coaxing the terrorist to kill---a truly masterful performance---one to be fearful of---fearful to totally eradicate them.


Reminded me of Dr Hannibal Lector, where he makes Megs commit suicide by swallowing his tongue----shockingly mesmerizing.


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## Dawkins

Scotland Yard has warned businesses in London to expect a Mumbai-style attack on the capital.

In a briefing in the City of London 12 days ago, a senior detective from SO15, the Metropolitan police counter-terrorism command, said: Mumbai is coming to London.

The detective said companies should anticipate a shooting and hostage-taking raid involving a small number of gunmen with handguns and improvised explosive devices.

The warning  the bluntest issued by police  has underlined an assessment that a terrorist cell may be preparing an attack on London early next year. 

It was issued by the Met through its network of security forums, which provide business leaders, local government and the emergency services with counter-terrorism advice.

During a commando-style raid by 10 gunmen on hotels and cafes in Mumbai in November 2008, 174 people were killed and more than 300 injured over three days.

Officials now report an increase in intelligence chatter  communications captured by electronic eavesdropping agencies. One senior security adviser said the police warnings had intensified and become much more specific in the past fortnight.

Before, there has been speculation. Now we are getting what appears to be a definite plot to carry out a firearms attack on London, he said.

Earlier this year, police, military and intelligence services held an exercise in Kent to see whether they could defeat a commando raid in London by terrorists.

The exercise brought out to those taking part that the capability doesnt exist to deal with that situation should it arise, said a military source.

Security sources said concerns had been raised by chatter on a prominent jihadist website two weeks ago.

One contributor suggested fighters could use automatic weapons to strike places such as nightclubs, sporting venues and Jewish centres.

In an online discussion hosted on December 2, another contributor invited suggestions for carrying out guerrilla warfare and proposed a group of mujaheddin raid police stations and fire at them.

Another said: Make sure that all those at the location are of age, that there are no children and so on. Insist on the locations and times where no Muslims or children are to be expected.

If machine guns are available, and explosive and expertise for [explosives] are not available, this is a good way ... The [Mumbai] operation is the ideal scenario for operations you are talking about.

A third contributor said targets should be chosen in a studied manner.

He added: In general, targeting economic joints and intelligence centres if possible has priority over police stations.

The Met is understood to be struggling to draw up effective plans to deal with the challenge of mass shootings followed by a prolonged siege with terrorists prepared to kill their hostages and themselves.

In Mumbai, many victims were killed in the first half hour of the attack. The Met is concerned that it will be much longer before the SAS, which has traditionally dealt with terrorist sieges in London, would arrive from its base at Regents Park barracks.

Patrick Mercer, chairman of the Commons counter-terrorism sub-committee, said the threat was very real. 



Police expect Mumbai-style terror attack on City of London - Times Online


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## grey boy 2

*India rejects talks with Pakistan before it acts against Mumbai attackers - People's Daily Online* 21:51, December 22, 2009 

India reiterated Tuesday that the resumption of dialogue with Pakistan depended on Islamabad bringing the perpetrators of the Mumbai terror attacks to justice and dismantling terror infrastructure on its soil. 

India has suspended dialogue with Pakistan since last year's Mumbai terror attacks which killed over 170 people. 

"Our position has been very clear and consistent. We have asked Pakistan to take two steps -- one, to bring perpetrators of Mumbai attacks to justice and to ensure that terror structures in Pakistan used against our country should be dismantled. But we have not seen progress in either of these two steps," said Indian Minister of State for External Affairs Shashi Tharoor. 

"We would like them to take steps on these two fronts. Until that action takes place we are not in a position to resume composite dialogue. We can certainly talk to Pakistan but they should show us they are serious," said Tharoor. 

Tharoor's statement came in the aftermath of remarks by Pakistan's envoy to India Shahid Malik that New Delhi wasn't implementing the "agreement" reached at Sharm-el-Shaikh about delinking dialogue from action against terrorism. 

But Tharoor said that Islamabad had to take the first step, only then New Delhi would meet it "more than the half way". 

"So far, Pakistan has not done it. We believe there is a great deal to be done," he said. 

India provided Pakistan with seven dossiers containing evidence against those involved in the mayhem, including alleged mastermind Jamaat-ud-Dawa chief Hafiz Saeed.&#12288; 

Source:Xinhua

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hulk

While I am a big fan of dialog but it is very difficult to talk when you see that your people from neighboring country have committed a heinous crime and the country is not serious about prosecuting the criminals.

I do not see any seriousness and its all cover-up, internally you do not know Lakhvi might be living in a five star facility.

While we just had Kasab caught in India (a pawn), Pakistan on the other hand have all the mastermind under their custody, still they say we do not have enough evidence. It can either be incompetence of the security apparatus or unwillingness (which I feel is the case), that they have made no progress so far.

Its not what you say to the world that determine how serious you are, its what you do. I think the way they reacted after 26/11 created more problem then 26/11 itself. Denial of Kasab being played for months on media created mistrust of highest level, for a common man Pakistan was trying to save people who have committed the act.

The only way this mistrust can be resolved is by showing to the same world that we are serious about punishing who were involved.

And then proceed with dialog and resolve all outstanding issues. Until that is done people will not accept any pro Pakistan stand in short term. GOI knows how people reacted after Sharm-El-Shaikh.


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## New Shivaji

I am for good friendly relationship with pakistan but not at this present juncture. Let pakistan bring the perpatrators to justice and dismantel all the terrorist infrastructure against India then we can talk.
What's the hurry for talks when nothing can be achieve under the present circumstances.


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## PWFI

oki ! so india want, pakistan army come to india and kill terroristes right?


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## Windjammer

The supposedly Mumbai attacks materialized just over a year ago, there are other issues which have been pending for much longer and even since independence, they need to be addressed and resolved systematically, you can't pick and chose at will. India must realize that it can never dictate Pakistan hence it's in India's interest to swallow the bitter pill and wake up to the 20s.


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## UchihaCG

PWFI said:


> oki ! so india want, pakistan army come to india and kill terroristes right?



no, what our government wants is for Pakistan to STOP supporting terrorists against India.



Windjammer said:


> The supposedly Mumbai attacks materialized just over a year ago, there are other issues which have been pending for much longer and even since independence, they need to be addressed and resolved systematically, you can't pick and chose at will. India must realize that it can never dictate Pakistan hence it's in India's interest to swallow the bitter pill and wake up to the 20s.



Other issues, yes...... but the most important to US right now is our security more than anything. So first, assure us that you will cooperate and stop helping terrorists. Then talks will resume. Our government won't change it's stance, as you've seen firmly what Dr.Singh has been saying for the past 6 months.


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## Windjammer

UchihaCG said:


> Other issues, yes...... but the most important to US right now is our security more than anything. So first, assure us that you will cooperate and stop helping terrorists. Then talks will resume. Our government won't change it's stance, as you've seen firmly what Dr.Singh has been saying for the past 6 months.



You know if Israel was to address and settle the Palestinian cause with intent, most if not all Muslim Countries would be lining up to open a diplomatic link with the Zionist State, similarly, if the core issue of Kashmir was settled between India/Pakistan, all other disputes will fall into place or simply fade away.


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## UchihaCG

Windjammer said:


> You know if Israel was to address and settle the Palestinian cause with intent, most if not all Muslim Countries would be lining up to open a diplomatic link with the Zionist State, similarly, if the core issue of Kashmir was settled between India/Pakistan, all other disputes will fall into place or simply fade away.



Yes, that's exactly true; but you are stopping the dialogue yourself. We don't like when someone attacks us and their government puts their hands down and says "kashmir?".

Hope you understand.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hulk

Windjammer said:


> The supposedly Mumbai attacks materialized just over a year ago, there are other issues which have been pending for much longer and even since independence, they need to be addressed and resolved systematically, you can't pick and chose at will. India must realize that it can never dictate Pakistan hence it's in India's interest to swallow the bitter pill and wake up to the 20s.



The problem is the way you see it. Lets take a very close example, lets replace countries by families living together of size 100 each.

One person from family A goes and kills 10 people of family B. The family A says that the head of family A was unaware about this, now family B says we want justice, family A says it happened because of dispute between us and we want it resolved.

Now if family B says unless you punish the culprits we cannot talk.

Now if you want to call this as family B dictating then it is your perspective, for family B family A is hiding the killers and it is not easy to do business in these circumstances.

Its been to insensitive attitude by Pakistani's, if the same incidence would have been other way round I would have loved to see the response. (I wish it should not happen, just wanted to point hypocrisy)

Easier said then done.


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## jupiter2007

UchihaCG said:


> Yes, that's exactly true; but you are stopping the dialogue yourself. We don't like when someone attacks us and their government puts their hands down and says "kashmir?".
> 
> Hope you understand.



You and the whole world know that Bombay attack was stage drama from India. Don't like explaining again and again.


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## mrwarrior006

^^^ar u trying to stage an drama here


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## T-50

jupiter2007 said:


> You and the whole world know that Bombay attack was stage drama from India. Don't like explaining again and again.



Oh man height..., even after excepting by GoP then also man... these man are ......


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## ek_indian

jupiter2007 said:


> You and the whole world know that Bombay attack was stage drama from India. Don't like explaining again and again.



You are either too brainwashed or less informed about this. 

You government has already accepted this that some of the terrorists were Pakistani nationals. So all your claims holds no value. And yes, there is a case going on in your own court regarding this.


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## Aslan

ek_indian said:


> You are either too brainwashed or less informed about this.
> 
> You government has already accepted this that some of the terrorists were Pakistani nationals. So all your claims holds no value. And yes, there is a case going on in your own court regardding this.



I am not going to argue over the bombay attacks and whether they were staged or real, but in all fairness those who cite the example of the GOP accepting the Kasab guy as Pakistani and you guys using that as a point of argument. The GOP also accepts the fact that the Indians are involved in destabilizing Pakistan via Afg, so we should take that as a fact as well.


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## mrwarrior006

^^^dont u think there is a difference india claimed and pakistan accepted backed by proof or intelligence sharing for ur convenience

but in latter pakistan is only claiming not backed by proof for our convenience


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## Aslan

mrwarrior006 said:


> ^^^dont u think there is a difference india claimed and pakistan accepted backed by proof or intelligence sharing for ur convenience
> 
> but in latter pakistan is only claiming not backed by proof for our convenience




The only point I was trying to make was that you always cite that GOP said that, well to add to that they say many other things. So we either take them as saints and believe in what ever they say or take nothing as a credible statement,


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## AliFarooq

GoP agreed with india, and arrested the people that india said were involved, now it was India's turn to provide strong evidence against these people.


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## SurvivoR

Well I don't get it... Why the fvck do we need to beg to talk? I say good riddance! Who cares?! LPC


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## ssheppard

But your leaders are requesting the entire world to pressurize ...the monkey worshiping country...to speak to your country...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...1340-put-pressure-india-talk-us-pakistan.html


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## ek_indian

AliFarooq said:


> GoP *agreed* with india, and arrested the people that india said were involved, now it was India's turn to provide strong evidence against these people.



So the GoP agreed with India without any proof. BTW, what actually was there in the dossiers?


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## mrwarrior006

@survivor


dude mind ur language i say- i have reported about it


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## jupiter2007

ek_indian said:


> You are either too brainwashed or less informed about this.
> 
> You government has already accepted this that some of the terrorists were Pakistani nationals. So all your claims holds no value. And yes, there is a case going on in your own court regarding this.



It is all bullshit, Zardari is a puppet, corrupted leader and soon he will be gone.


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## Windjammer

UchihaCG said:


> Yes, that's exactly true; but you are stopping the dialogue yourself. We don't like when someone attacks us and their government puts their hands down and says "kashmir?".
> 
> Hope you understand.



My friend you really need to study the case scenario.
Every time some meaningful dialog is established, BJP or some other Hawk in your set up usually pulls the rug.
Can you really determine who is in power in India, M M Singh, Sonia Gandhi, BTP, Shiv Sena, RSS, or Ball Thakrey. ?? !!


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## mrwarrior006

> *originally posted by windjammer*
> Can you really determine who is in power in India



^^^^democracy got ur answer


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## BlackenTheSky

I dont know why we are begging india to have dialogues.we should be saying 'no talks with india unless it will stop interfarring in balochistan'


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## garibnawaz

jupiter2007 said:


> It is all bullshit, Zardari is a puppet, corrupted leader



Chosen by People pf Pakistan democratically.



> ^^^^democracy got ur answer



First explain him (and apparently other's) the meaning of that word.



> Indians are involved in destabilizing Pakistan via Afg, so we should take that as a fact as well.



Who attacked India in 1965?
Who supported Kahlistani separatists?
Who started peration Topac in 1988?
Indians started Bus service between Delhi-Lahore. Who backstabbed Atalji then?
Who os supporting LeT, HuJI, Harkat Ul Mujahideen, Dawood Ibrahim and all others?

Facts can be so interesting sometimes.

GB


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## deesu

We must secure our country first... we can't blame pakistan for our security lapse. Every country will try to destabalise its enemy for its own survival.
I feel there must be some bigger reason for not having talks with Pak.
BTW I feel by having better relation in the musharaf era has only increased the terror modules in other parts of India than kashmir.


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## garibnawaz

deesu said:


> We must secure our country first... we can't blame pakistan for our security lapse. Every country will try to destabalise its enemy for its own survival.
> I feel there must be some bigger reason for not having talks with Pak.
> BTW I feel by having better relation in the musharaf era has only increased the terror modules in other parts of India than kashmir.



And how do you propose to avoid IC-814 ,or Kanishka bombing type incidences?

GB


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## deesu

The way US has done after 9/11


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## ssheppard

*Pak willing for talks in 3rd country*

Islamabad, Dec 22: Pakistan Foreign minister, Shah Mahmood Qureshi Tuesday said his country was willing to talk to India in any third country. 
While briefing country&#8217;s Foreign Affairs Committee, Qureshi said Pakistan is ready to talk to India in any third country. &#8220;We want resumption of dialogue process to resolve all outstanding issues,&#8221; he said.

Qureshi, however, said, India is not serious in reviving the dialogue process because of its political weaknesses. 
He warned that non revival of dialogue process will strengthen the terrorist elements in the two countries. &#8220;In order to defeat the terrorists, it has become more important for the two countries to revive the stalled dialogue process,&#8221; Qureshi said. 
The Pakistan foreign minister said resolution of Kashmir issue is must for restoration of peace and tranquility in South Asia. &#8220;Pakistan will continue to offer political and diplomatic support to Kashmiris,&#8221; he said.
Terming Kashmiris as a basic party to the Kashmir dispute, he said their involvement in any dialogue process is must. &#8220;Without their involvement, dialogue process will not be result oriented&#8221;, he added

Rising Kashmir, Daily Newspaper, Srinagar Jammu and Kashmir - Pak willing for talks in 3rd country

___________________________________________________

*Talks after action on 26/11: India*


New Delhi, Dec 22: India Tuesday said it is not in a position to resume the composite dialogue with Pakistan till "vigorous prosecution" is mounted against the accused in the 26/11 case.
"We know seven people have been arrested, but we would like to see a vigorous prosecution mounted in the 26/11 case) and we would like others to be caught," minister of state for external affairs Shashi Tharoor told reporters here.

"We have seen such terrible indications of how the planning, execution, financing, training and guiding of these (26/11) killers took place from Pakistani soil. So until that action takes place, we are obviously not in a position to resume the composite dialogue," he said replying to questions on the issue of resumption of Indo-Pak talks.
Tharoor said, &#8220;Our prime minister has said very clearly 'you (Pakistan) take the first step, we will reach you more than half-way. That first step has not been taken&#8221;.
India has been demanding prosecution of LeT chief Hafiz Saeed and has handed over several dossiers to Pakistan in connection with the case.
Tharoor said, "One point of view is very simple. We can talk to people but the talking can only take place in an environment where both sides have confidence that something substantial would result and then some progress will follow&#8221;.
"We can certainly talk to Pakistan when the time comes. Let them show us that they are serious in their understanding that those who have harmed India are the very same forces that threaten them, (and) they understand that we have the same enemies rather than any other approach. Then we will have a basis to talk," he said.
Tharoor told reporters here last night that the Government wants to see everyone involved in the Mumbai terror attacks case is brought to justice and has not let anyone off the hook.
"As far as we are concerned, we are pursuing what we need to do. Our colleagues in the home ministry are working very hard on this dossier," he said.
"The issue matters to us. We want to see everyone involved in the 26/11 (strikes) to be brought to justice. We are not letting anyone off the hook and we are not letting down our guard," he said.
Tharoor said the ministries were dealing "very seriously" with matters connected with the Mumbai carnage.

http://www.risingkashmir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19330&Itemid=1


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## BlackSonic

I don't understand why Pakistan is in so hurry to start dialogue process?


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## Enigma SIG

deesu said:


> The way US has done after 9/11



You tried but failed miserably 

Geez indians have a really inflated ego, it gets hurt pretty quick.
Criticise yourself once in a while rather than pointing fingers all the time at others.

Its not as if India has been showering in milk since it was created


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## deesu

Imran2006g said:


> You tried but failed miserably
> 
> Geez indians have a really inflated ego, it gets hurt pretty quick.
> Criticise yourself once in a while rather than pointing fingers all the time at others.
> 
> Its not as if India has been showering in milk since it was created



A misunderstanding here... 
I was responding to "garibnawaz" .
my mistake I didn't use the reply with quote


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## TaimiKhan

BlackSonic said:


> I don't understand why Pakistan is in so hurry to start dialogue process?



It isn't interested, its just diplomatic relations BS.


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## Naradmuni

deesu said:


> The way US has done after 9/11





Imran2006g said:


> *You tried but failed miserably *
> 
> Geez indians have a really inflated ego, it gets hurt pretty quick.
> Criticise yourself once in a while rather than pointing fingers all the time at others.
> 
> Its not as if India has been showering in milk since it was created




How come? There has not been a single terrorist attack in India post 26/11. And there are almost 2 attacks every day in pakistan post 26/11. Who is losing here? 

Wars are not just about tanks and fighter jets, if you know what I mean.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

There need to be an offer , prior to anyone rejection 

Last time I checked we were building bunkers along the border, I doubt there was any discussion of a meeting

Mumbai was a flase flah to give Nuclear deal to India and to shut up communist party elements in India , and also it gave india reason to backstab Iran gas peace pipeline 
also to close down any investigations on indian army 

So motive on one side was too strong - 

I don't think there is anything to talk about


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## deesu

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> There need to be an offer , prior to anyone rejection
> 
> Last time I checked we were building bunkers along the border, I doubt there was any discussion of a meeting
> 
> Mumbai was a flase flah to give Nuclear deal to India and to shut up communist party elements in India , and also it gave india reason to backstab Iran gas peace pipeline
> also to close down any investigations on indian army
> 
> So motive on one side was too strong -
> 
> I don't think there is anything to talk about




Buddy, shall I consider the same type of reasoning for the blasts happening in pakistan???
It is an insult to the people who have died because of the terrorism...


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

deesu said:


> Buddy, shall I consider the same type of reasoning for the blasts happening in pakistan???
> It is an insult to the people who have died because of the terrorism...




I think , you should encourage your own gov to have a meaningful chat with Pakistani authorities closing all doors and locking doors do not prevent flu from spreading in your homes eventually it comes and hits you hard ...

I am just saying it was quite suspecious , when the attacks happend

a) Indian Army was being investigated 
b) Communist party was against US nuclear deal
c) Anti Terrorism officers were on case to solve big case
d) US had offered hand to India to pull out of Iran gas pipe line
e) US needed support form india to pressure Pakistan , as Pakistan Airforce 
has just said no to drone attacks and shot down a drone or fired at it

So with one attack , all the 4 goals were acomplished - Russia on other hand was side stepped ... thrown out like unwanted toy

If I am wrong to assume these 4 issues became obsolete after that you can correct me perhaps I am ill informed but I thought it was politically incorret to call these terrorist attack when clearly political gains were made, and no one actually knows 

It was suspicious to see Manmohand singh shaking hands in Washington, and smiling , no political backlash as before from russian supporter, or no mention of investigation on the blasts in Indian army role etc every thing BEcAME NORMAL ...

Right after the political goals were achived, guess what ... every one went back to business as usual ??? Am I right or wrong ?

If Indeed Pakistan had to gain something from it .. we would have gained it already but our own peae efforts were derailed so on top of that we have to beg for negotiations to start .. I think discussions should only happen when you are on equal footings - as two neighbouring countries


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## ssheppard

Every now and then some voices echo the Pakistani clamour for a need to resume the so-called composite dialogue........The strongest reason advanced for this appeal is that Indias stance of no-talks with Pakistan is only strengthening........ the forces that launch terrorist attacks on India....... In other words, India is being hurt more than it had bargained for when it decided in the wake of the macabre Mumbai attacks in ......November 2008 to suspend the on-going talks with Pakistan.

*What can be expected by resuming talks with a Pakistan that has since become more irrational, grumpy and paranoiac and has opened several anti-Indian fronts?* .....*.Pakistan is doing its best to hawk an entirely preposterous theory that India is behind the wave of terrorist attacks that are coming with ferocious regularity all over the land of the pure. At the same time the world is also being fed another blatant lie by Pakistan that it had absolutely nothing to do with the Mumbai attacks of November 2008*.

*The proof of Indias hand in the terrorist attacks has long been compiled, say the Pakistanis*.... *The slight problem is that they are unable to decide whether it has been handed over to India or not.... Sometimes, the Pakistani officials talk of the proof having been handed over Manmohan Singh at Sharm-el-Shaikh, at other times their ministers are talking about the proof having been collected but has been held over for delivery at an appropriate time.*

That appropriate time will probably come when the composite dialogue is resumednot in the near future. Or, perhaps the proof has not been cooked sufficiently to make it look even remotely plausible. One proof that Pakistan had provided to the Americans in recent past was about Indian diplomats seen talking to some Baloch leaders.


----------



## Chanakyaa

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> I think , you should encourage your own gov to have a meaningful chat with Pakistani authorities closing all doors and locking doors do not prevent flu from spreading in your homes eventually it comes and hits you hard ...
> 
> I am just saying it was quite suspecious , when the attacks happend
> 
> a) Indian Army was being investigated
> b) Communist party was against US nuclear deal
> c) Anti Terrorism officers were on case to solve big case
> d) US had offered hand to India to pull out of Iran gas pipe line
> e) US needed support form india to pressure Pakistan , as Pakistan Airforce
> has just said no to drone attacks and shot down a drone or fired at it
> 
> So with one attack , all the 4 goals were acomplished - Russia on other hand was side stepped ... thrown out like unwanted toy
> 
> If I am wrong to assume these 4 issues became obsolete after that you can correct me perhaps I am ill informed but I thought it was politically incorret to call these terrorist attack when clearly political gains were made, and no one actually knows
> 
> It was suspicious to see Manmohand singh shaking hands in Washington, and smiling , no political backlash as before from russian supporter, or no mention of investigation on the blasts in Indian army role etc every thing BEcAME NORMAL ...
> 
> Right after the political goals were achived, guess what ... every one went back to business as usual ??? Am I right or wrong ?
> 
> If Indeed Pakistan had to gain something from it .. we would have gained it already but our own peae efforts were derailed so on top of that we have to beg for negotiations to start .. I think discussions should only happen when you are on equal footings - as two neighbouring countries




All the Goals u mentioned could be achieved without 26/11.

Above all, 200 lives are far far above these goals.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

XiNiX said:


> All the Goals u mentioned could be achieved without 26/11.
> 
> Above all, 200 lives are far far above these goals.



Yes civilian lifes are lost but at same time

a) When one thinks about the politial chaos that could 
have arisen in Indian political Scene, if India had just taken US 
hand with out any reason , traditionall Russia was the one
who was there for India , but Indian just took candy from US

b) The communist party of India was staging their own protest 
to protest the move , there was to be alot of turmoil

c) The whole Indian Army was shaken up when its Colonel and 
Generals were conducting flase flag operations and planting bombs 
and then blaming it on Muslims , there was a real chance that the 
investigator who was looking into the truth was going to shake
indian army to its core

Mean while Indian and Pakistani public had been on history close relations - they were fed up with weapon race and ties were resuming which would have likely resulted in open trade and open relations with Pakistan and India .......

Who would but the billion dollar weapons from anyone if there was peace???? 

The biggest issue was the empty void from where these 4-5 people came into the bombay , navies of our nations (india and pakistan) routinely catch fisherman who tresspass, so for me to assume these guys came on boats 

What political gains were achieved , when you view it in a political sense you realize or at least I started to realize why these attacks were orchestrated


a) Split the Pakistan Army on west/east front , as days or week before the attack Pakistan had firmly said NO to anymore attacks on its soil and infact some of the helicopters for US were fired upon by check posts

There was a real chance that Pakistan Airforce might engage US airforce, so a certain plan was inacted , to bring India into the mix 

a) Pakistan got into the trade plan with Iran 
b) Pakistani army and airforce decided to protect its lands

So to counter the two elements, a force from east front was needed to remind Pakistan , who is the boss...

The only challenge was to convince the Indian population , how to accept going back to old days in public relations with Pakistan 

I mean how can you take public who are cheering from Pakistani cricketers and eating and dancing with Pakistani people to times when TV channels started to bash Pakistan 

Simple - you need to open a wound - which will seep out blood and when people will see blood they will go into a "FEAR" mode , and that is exactly what happened 

When fear took over, every one forgot and they all believed what was presented to them


I doubt Pakistan had anything to gain form this - 
from our stand point the Mumbai attacks were attack on pakistan's hard work on our forigne relatiosn for past 10 years


----------



## grey boy 2

*India says Pakistan has taken positive measures against perpetrators of Mumbai attacks - People's Daily Online* 20:29, January 08, 2010 

India said on Friday that Pakistan has taken "positive measures" to book the perpetrators of the Mumbai terror attacks, but asked Islamabad to do more against terrorism.

Indian Minister of External Affairs S.M. Krishna said that Pakistan has taken positive measures on the basis of the dossiers India has provided.

"However, we are still to see Pakistan take effective steps to end infiltration and dismantle the terror mechanism on its territory," he said in his address at a meeting of diaspora here.

"We support a stable Pakistan at peace with itself. We wish to address the issues between us through dialogue. But we have made it clear that this would be possible only in an atmosphere free of terror," he said.

Source: Xinhua


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## Iggy

Video: Scary Plotter | The Daily Show | Comedy Central


Guys what do you think about this??i found it hilarious ..take it as only a joke..dont start a war

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## PlanetWarrior

seiko said:


> Video: Scary Plotter | The Daily Show | Comedy Central
> 
> 
> Guys what do you think about this??i found it hilarious ..take it as only a joke..dont start a war



 funny. Had me laughing in stitches


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## Hulk

I cannot view that video, since apple does not support flash.


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## Iggy

indianrabbit said:


> I cannot view that video, since apple does not support flash.



watch it if you get a chance dude ..its worth it ;-) ..


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## pagans

seiko said:


> watch it if you get a chance dude ..its worth it ;-) ..


I also cannot watch it.Can you please give a small summary ?


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## gogbot

seiko said:


> Video: Scary Plotter | The Daily Show | Comedy Central
> 
> 
> Guys what do you think about this??i found it hilarious ..take it as only a joke..dont start a war



Lol i saw it a few months ago, awesome video.

There is no better criticism to the war in iraq then that.


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## Patriot

Shows US hypocrisy..


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## Iggy

pagans said:


> I also cannot watch it.Can you please give a small summary ?



Daily Show: Scary Plotter Video

here is another link hope you will be able watch this one


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## Patriot

just could not stop laughing man.Jon Stewart rocks.


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## Iggy

Patriot said:


> just could not stop laughing man.Jon Stewart rocks.



yea he rocks..just watch his facial expressions


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## gogbot

Patriot said:


> just could not stop laughing man.Jon Stewart rocks.



*YOU* like a liberal, Comedy show host ?


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## Super Falcon

give us a chance to watch it hahahahahahaah


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## Iggy

Super Falcon said:


> give us a chance to watch it hahahahahahaah



lolz are you not able to watch it bro?


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## third eye

BBC News - US charges three men over 2008 Mumbai attacks


A Pakistani militant leader a former Pakistani army officer and a man from Chicago have been charged in the US over the deadly 2008 Mumbai attacks.

Militant chief Ilyas Kashmiri and ex-army officer Abdur Rehman were also charged with plotting to attack the offices of a Danish newspaper.

Neither has yet been arrested. Chicago businessman Tahawwur Rana had already been charged with the newspaper plot.

The Mumbai attacks left 174 people, including nine gunmen, dead.

All three men are accused of helping to lay the groundwork for the November 2008 attacks in the Indian city.

Last October, Mr Rana was arrested and charged with plotting overseas attacks including one on the Danish newspaper, Jyllands-Posten.

He was arrested with David Coleman Headley, a Pakistani-American accused of having helped identify targets for the Mumbai attacks and also of plotting to attack the newspaper.

On Thursday, extra charges in connection with the Danish newspaper plot and new charges relating to the Mumbai attacks were filed against Mr Rana.

The Jyllands-Posten's decision to publish a series of cartoons about the Prophet Mohammed in 2005 sparked angry and violent protests from Muslims in several countries.

Both men have denied the charges.

US prosecutors have now charged retired Pakistani army officer Abdur Rehman and Ilyas Kashmiri, a leader of an outlawed Pakistan-based militant group with plotting the 2008 attacks in Mumbai.

Abdur Rehman is believed to be living in Pakistan, while Ilyas Kashmiri is said to be living in the Pakistani tribal areas in Waziristan.

Ilyas Kashmiri was reported to have been killed by an air strike in September 2009 - but reports since then have said he was alive.

It is very difficult to confirm information from Pakistan's north-western tribal belt.


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## Hulk

Would be interested to know when did the former PA officer retired. When this case came into light they said recently retired. It can be that he was on payroll at the time of attack.


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## third eye

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | US willing to share drone technology with Pak: Gates

By Baqir Sajjad Syed and Iftikhar A. Khan
Friday, 22 Jan, 2010

ISLAMABAD: The government said on Thursday *it could not guarantee against repeat of 26/11 like attacks in India and the best safeguard against such strikes was de-linking of peace process from action against terrorism and the Kashmir and water disputes.
*
*Pakistan is itself facing Mumbai-like attacks almost every other day and when we cannot protect our own citizens, how can we guarantee that there wouldnt be any more terrorist hits in India,* Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani was quoted by a source as having told the visiting US Secretary of Defence Robert Gates, who called on him. Pakistan suffered its worst year of terrorist violence last year, with more than 3,000 people killed.

Secretary Gates had in India warned that Pakistan-based militants, who had links with Al Qaeda, were planning strikes in India with the hope that retaliation would lead to a new conflict.

In his bid to raise pressure on Pakistan to act against militant groups targeting India, the secretary had said that New Delhi, unlike the restraint shown after Mumbai incident, was not apt to holding back if attacked again.

Prime Minister Gilani recalled the steps taken against militant groups saying they had been outlawed and their network was disrupted. In an apparent reference to Jamaatud Dawa chief Hafiz Saeed, who has been accused by India of masterminding the Mumbai attack but has been released on court orders, the prime minister said his government could not prosecute anyone without evidence.

*India, which had suspended the Composite Dialogue with Pakistan in the aftermath of Mumbai attack, has been refusing to resume it without credible action against alleged perpetrators despite a commitment at Sharm El Sheikh that the peace talks would be de-linked from action against terrorism.*

Mr Gilani regretted Indias obstinacy, stating that as long as India held the peace process hostage to progress on terrorism, forward movement in normalisation of ties was unlikely.

Pakistan is committed to peace in the region and in this context has been making sincere efforts to resume Composite Dialogue with India, but the response from the other side has not been encouraging. Relations between India and Pakistan should not become hostage to the activities of terrorists.

For lasting peace in the region, both countries should resolve core issues, including Kashmir and water disputes, a statement by the prime ministers office quoted him as having said.

BRIDGING TRUST DEFICIT
The prime minister presented a roadmap for bridging the trust deficit between Islamabad and New Delhi.

*The prime ministers roadmap sought evenhandedness by US vis-à-vis Pakistan and India, stoppage of unmanned drone attacks in Pakistans territory, immediate disbursement of Coalition Support Fund arrears and deletion of Pakistan from the list of countries whose nationals face special screening at US airports.
*
Trust deficit could be minimised by improving perceptions and developing people to people contact between the two countries, he said.

The US defence secretary also met President Asif Ali Zardari, Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar, Joint Chiefs of the Staff Committee Chairman Gen Tariq Majid and Chief of the Army Staff Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

The security situation in the region and the US plans to commit another troops in Afghanistan came under discussion during the meeting.

During his meeting with President Zardari, security situation in the region, drone attacks, payment of CSF arrears, fight against militancy, drug trafficking, the new US screening regime and strengthening of Pakistans law-enforcement agencies were discussed.

Briefing reporters after the meeting, spokesperson to the president Farhatullah Babar said Mr Zardari emphasised that the issue of CSF arrears amounting to about $2 billion be resolved at the earliest.

The president said that the economic cost of the war against terror amounting to $35 billion for the last eight years had impacted on Pakistans economy adversely and the amount under CSF had actually been spent by Pakistan. It needed to be reimbursed urgently.

*Pakistan has been facing delays in payments of CSF claims, the president informed the defence secretary, calling for timely reimbursement of arrears.*

Reviewing the overall security situation, the president welcomed US affirmation of commitment to Pakistans stability and security. Ties must be based on mutual respect and trust.

Mr Zardari expressed reservations over the new screening regime for Pakistanis, saying that it had caused resentment and called for a review.

About the drone attacks on Pakistani territory, the president said that it undermined the national consensus against the war on militancy and called for creating a mechanism whereby the drones were used by Pakistans security forces rather than by foreign troops.

Mr Zardari said it was critical that national consensus on war against militancy was not allowed to erode and anything that tended to weaken it was avoided.

The president said that when Pakistans security forces employed high-tech in the war it had no negative fallout. If our own security forces possess drones it will be a more helpful high-tech weapon of war than when it is used by foreign forces.

He called for strengthening law-enforcement agencies and provision of equipment for fighting militants.The president emphasised the need for early adoption of legislation in the US on reconstruction opportunity zones (RoZs) in tribal areas.

Referring to the new US Afghan strategy, Mr Zardari said Pakistan had a stake in promoting peace and stability in Afghanistan and urged US to show more sensitivity to Pakistans concerns. US actions should remain on the Afghan side of the border, he added.

President Zardari underlined the need for controlling drugs which, he said, was serving as a force multiplier to the benefit of militants.

Mr Gates appreciated Pakistans role in the war against extremism and militancy and assured full support in the fight against militancy as well as economic rehabilitation.


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## equiliz3r

DAWN.COM | World | India police arrest two in Mumbai for planning strikes


MUMBAI: Police in Mumbai said on Sunday they have arrested two men they say were preparing to attack several targets in the Indian financial hub, including the offices of energy firm Oil and Natural Gas Corp.

Police said they believed the men were receiving directions from Pakistan. India has said militant groups based in Pakistan were responsible for the November 2008 attacks in Mumbai which killed 166 people.

We believe they were taking instructions from across the border to attack three or four targets in Mumbai, said Vinesh Agarwal, an inspector with Mumbai's anti-terrorism squad

They are being interrogated, he said.

The men were identified as Abdul Lateef and Riyaz Ali, Agarwal said.

Security in Mumbai has been tight since a bombing in neighbouring Pune city last month that killed 16 people, the first major militant strike since the 2008 attacks on Mumbai.

Mumbai is hosting several IPL cricket league matches featuring Indian and international players.

There have been reports that militants had threatened to disrupt the month-long IPL tournament, as well as the Commonwealth Games in New Delhi later this year.


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## navtrek

Well great work by the Police dept  hope they continue with the same momentum.


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## HAIDER

MUMBAI: Police in Mumbai said on Sunday they have arrested two men they say were preparing to attack several targets in the Indian financial hub, including the offices of energy firm Oil and Natural Gas Corp.

Police said they believed the men were receiving directions from Pakistan. India has said militant groups based in Pakistan were responsible for the November 2008 attacks in Mumbai which killed 166 people.

&#8220;We believe they were taking instructions from across the border to attack three or four targets in Mumbai,&#8221; said Vinesh Agarwal, an inspector with Mumbai's anti-terrorism squad

&#8220;They are being interrogated,&#8221; he said.

The men were identified as Abdul Lateef and Riyaz Ali, Agarwal said.

Security in Mumbai has been tight since a bombing in neighbouring Pune city last month that killed 16 people, the first major militant strike since the 2008 attacks on Mumbai.

Mumbai is hosting several IPL cricket league matches featuring Indian and international players.

There have been reports that militants had threatened to disrupt the month-long IPL tournament, as well as the Commonwealth Games in New Delhi later this year.
DAWN.COM | World | India police arrest two in Mumbai for planning strikes

*(Thats fun part right after Pakistan disclose Indian involvement in Lahore blast, next day they got two muslims with allegation)*


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## equiliz3r

sorry mate already posted in India def section


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## sarthak

A terror plot has been busted in Mumbai after two men were arrested by Maharashtra Anti-Terror Squad (ATS) on Sunday. The investigators say they have been trailing these men since the Pune blasts.

Identified as Abdul Latif Sheikh and Riyaz Ali, the arrested men planned to attack ONGC oil installations, Mangaldas cloth market and Thakkar Mall in the next day or two, according to the investigators.

Some people in Pakistan were trying to unleash terror in Mumbai through their Indian operatives. They wanted to take some people to Pakistan and these two were to make the passports," Maharashtra ATS chief K P Raghuvanshi said.

The ATS also claims that Indian citizens, Abdul Latif Shaikh and Riyaz Ali locals from the suburbs of Bandra and Dahisar, were being guided by handlers in Pakistan.

"They were in touch with one 'uncle' in Pakistan," Raghuvanshi said.

Nevertheless, officials say, the planning indicates Shaikh and Ali are possibly linked to the Laskhar-e-Toiba.

The oil company, meanwhile, has taken precautions. "ONGC received intelligence inputs 10 days ago. We are on a high alert and have done whatever we can to improve security," ONGC Chairman RS Sharma said.

According to the ATS, Abdul Latif and Riyaz Ali are connected with a terror network in Pakistan and the police are on the lookout for their other accomplices.



I think it's really worrying that more and more of our citizens are getting involved in such things.


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## Avatar

sarthak said:


> I think it's really worrying that more and more of our citizens are getting involved in such things.



After what happened in Mumbai the organizations responsible for it are under a lot of pressure to do something again of the same magnitude. This is why they are pushing harder than ever. Our agencies are also working hard to foil any attempts but in such a huge nation with such a high population it's very difficult to track everything.

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## Awesome

Indians are so quick to gripe about allegations against India, yet they have no qualms of harping the Pakistan mantra all the time.

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## Spitfighter

^^Is it really that hard to digest asim? 

Pakistan is a victim of its own flawed policies, what is happening in Pakistan today is a result of Musharraf's U-turn after 9/11. 

On the other hand, Pakistan has waged a never ending low intensity proxy war against India, hence the 'Pakistan mantra'.


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## Avatar

Asim Aquil said:


> Indians are so quick to gripe about allegations against India, yet they have no qualms of harping the Pakistan mantra all the time.



Asim Bhai, I think we both know the realities. 

Indians might go an extra mile to defend themselves but you cannot deny that almost every terror (Except Naxals) attack in India has it's origins somewhere in Pakistan.

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## HariSeldon

Asim Aquil said:


> Indians are so quick to gripe about allegations against India, yet they have no qualms of harping the Pakistan mantra all the time.



AA...There is difference in this news and aleggation on Indian RAW for Lahore.
1) This statement is after investigation. After tracking the suspects. 
2) Its alleged that "handlers" are from PK. Nobody said anything abt ISI or PA or any govt. involvement. They are pointing finger at LeT. For Lahore blasts you are directly accusing GOI. Are you sure blaming LeT and RAW are same?


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## Chanakyaa

Note that pakistan accuses the Indian Gov, while India blames the Globally banned Groups/Terrorists like LeT AND HIZB who run their activities from pak soil.

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## thebrownguy

XiNiX said:


> Note that pakistan accuses the Indian Gov, while India blames the Globally banned Groups/Terrorists like LeT AND HIZB who run their activities from pak soil.



Exactly, thats the point! Are any more details given out to the media. Man, my friend works at ONGC, i had my heart in my mouth. This is terrible. I feel more needs to be done to to crush the extermist elements. Whatever they may fight for, if any country is letting them use their soil, they must realize its time to crush these rats. 
The whole sub continent is burning, some hard decisions have to be taken!!


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## sarthak

Asim Aquil said:


> Indians are so quick to gripe about allegations against India, yet they have no qualms of harping the Pakistan mantra all the time.



Wrong. There's a large difference between what we say and what you say.
We usually blame the terrorist organisations ( which i really hope are not under the pakistani government). There are hardly times when we blame the pakistani government directly. We point at groups like Lashkar E Toiba , Hizbul , at times ISI because it has a history of relations with these groups(hopefully not now)

On the other hand , all attacks in pakistan are attributed directly to the indian government and RAW. Within like half an hour of the lahore attacks , the police seemed to be sure that these attacks had indian links. Even unprofessional indian channels take more than 2 days before pointing at pakistan


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Well india has a issue with local sepratist movement, and drugs and gangsters , there is military involved in bomb blasts so the dynamics of the issue are very troublesome......

I mean any person who is angry at some issue could become a pawn in the hands of lets say "some group" for financial or political gain ...

The greater danger is that the blame would go on Pakistan and frankly speaking we don't want no pieace of that - we have our own issues at hand , and we can't deal with India's own internal issues.

India should really think about talking rationally with Pakistan , as we can't risk an accidental war - which can be devestating to both countries

We are going in that direction but .. it could be prevented


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## Awesome

sarthak said:


> Wrong. There's a large difference between what we say and what you say.
> We usually blame the terrorist organisations ( which i really hope are not under the pakistani government). There are hardly times when we blame the pakistani government directly. We point at groups like Lashkar E Toiba , Hizbul , at times ISI because it has a history of relations with these groups(hopefully not now)
> 
> On the other hand , all attacks in pakistan are attributed directly to the indian government and RAW. Within like half an hour of the lahore attacks , the police seemed to be sure that these attacks had indian links. Even unprofessional indian channels take more than 2 days before pointing at pakistan


Saying ISI is blaming the Pak government.

I've been hearing you guys blame ISI since I think I was in kindergarten.


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## DesiGuy

Instead of blaming Pakistan, India needs to improve their own security. 


i am also tired of Indian government


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## gubbi

Asim Aquil said:


> Saying ISI is blaming the Pak government.


Not True!
ISI is not under the control of any civilian government body or department. Correct me if I am wrong.
It is part of your Army 'establishment', an alternate, more powerful power center in Pakistan.

So technically, blaming ISI does not amount to blaming the Pakistani Govt and by extension the people of Pakistan. Now, the army and your 'establishment' are a different story.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Actually the pakistani peopel and paksitan also don't know who ISI reports to  so I don't think Pakistan has any thing to do with it 

ISI is busy fighting war on terror we don't have time to fight any nation building operations in India , as much as we would like to help build new nations there

But we could take personal interest into matters if you insist just need to push our right buttons

And just for your record alot of Indian Muslims have uncles in Pakistan , does not mean they want to bomb blast Mumbai - 

If someone was caught on your side please don't blame it on us , we have our hands full we can't facilitate , tea party and talks currently


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## Awesome

HariSeldon said:


> AA...There is difference in this news and aleggation on Indian RAW for Lahore.
> 1) This statement is after investigation. After tracking the suspects.
> 2) Its alleged that "handlers" are from PK. Nobody said anything abt ISI or PA or any govt. involvement. They are pointing finger at LeT. For Lahore blasts you are directly accusing GOI. Are you sure blaming LeT and RAW are same?


There is always an excuse to look at things from your own point of view and ignore the others.


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## Awesome

gubbi said:


> Not True!
> ISI is not under the control of any civilian government body or department. Correct me if I am wrong.
> It is part of your Army 'establishment', an alternate, more powerful power center in Pakistan.
> 
> So technically, blaming ISI does not amount to blaming the Pakistani Govt and by extension the people of Pakistan. Now, the army and your 'establishment' are a different story.


ISI reports directly to the Prime Minister.


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## gubbi

Asim Aquil said:


> ISI reports directly to the Prime Minister.



I am not sure about this. I think, IIRC, ISI chief reports to your COAS. Wasnt there an uproar in recent past when one of your ministers wanted to exercise civilian control over ISI but then finally backtracked? 

ISI in NOT under Pak civilian control, and that makes its deals murkier.


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## Avatar

Does any Pakistani here disagree that ISI has contacts with all alleged terrorist organizations ? 

Go through the other Pakistani defense forum and you will know what I'm talking about.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Why would ISI have contacts with Terrorist , ISI is intelligence gathering agency - its objective is not to send missions into forigne countries 

Why don't we ever find any ISI agent in USA, Germany, Canada etc

Its simple because ISI main responsibility is to protect Pakistan from 
any terrorist activities

Taliban ~ is rouge element group that wants to dominate , and its interfering all over , in hope to start a large scale war. This is also not helped by fact that there are hindu groups in India who want to start up major riots to gain political benefits - 

So in such , situation the gov officials of both nations are at mercy of these groups


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## thebrownguy

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Why would ISI have contacts with Terrorist , ISI is intelligence gathering agency - its objective is not to send missions into forigne countries
> 
> Why don't we ever find any ISI agent in USA, Germany, Canada etc
> 
> Its simple because ISI main responsibility is to protect Pakistan from
> any terrorist activities
> 
> Taliban ~ is rouge element group that wants to dominate , and its interfering all over , in hope to start a large scale war. This is also not helped by fact that there are hindu groups in India who want to start up major riots to gain political benefits -
> 
> So in such , situation the gov officials of both nations are at mercy of these groups



OK lets put it in another way! Do you think LeT are terrorists?

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

thebrownguy said:


> OK lets put it in another way! Do you think LeT are terrorists?



The first time I heard about them was from Indians
never heard about it before .. only after I head indians complaining...

Every single , problem in india is blamed on ISI specially close to election so we have just put a big , spam filter , specially during election days

We don't know who they are .... cuz we don't see these ppl nor we see them running training camps cuz they do not exist 

But see since Indian complain all the time , the complaining has to be filtered .. so we can differentiate which complain is real and what is media created.

First time I heard it I think it was some internet or newspaper

I mean the question is , when our cricket team can't enter India - how can these LeT can get in so easily ?? What is it a open gate for these guys to walk in ?

We are really busy with Taliban - DND..


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## xebex

Asim Aquil said:


> Indians are so quick to gripe about allegations against India, yet they have no qualms of harping the Pakistan mantra all the time.



But unlike Pakistan, we publish solid evidence for our claim and have been prooven so far.

One example: we said Kazab is a Pakistani right after the attack, and it took an year for GoP to admit it. as simple as that


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## xebex

Asim Aquil said:


> Saying ISI is blaming the Pak government.
> 
> *I've been hearing you guys blame ISI since I think I was in kindergarten*.



yes, but u might havnt payed attention to the reason, why we blame ISI, since u were a kid.


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## Dark Angel

Indo-Asian News Service
Chicago, March 19, 2010
First Published: 00:26 IST(19/3/2010)


To avoid a possible death sentence and extradition to India, Pakistani American terror suspect David Coleman Headley has pleaded guilty to a dozen federal terrorism charges, admitting his role in planning the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks.

In pleading guilty on Thursday to all 12 counts that were brought against him in December and were repeated in a subsequent indictment in January, Headley, 49, admitted that he attended training camps in Pakistan operated by Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), a designated foreign terrorist organisation, on five separate occasions between 2002 and 2005. 

Prosecutors said in late 2005, Headley received instructions from three members of LeT to travel to India to conduct surveillance. 

Son of a Pakistani father and an American mother, he changed his name from Daood Gilani in 2006 to visit India five times to scout targets for the Nov 26 Mumbai attacks that killed 164 people including six Americans. 

Appearing before US District Judge Harry Leinenweber in Federal Court here, Headley dressed in an orange jump suit with his hands and legs shackled also pleaded guilty to planning an attack on a Danish newspaper that had published cartoons lampooning the Prophet Mohammad. 


Headley's co-accused, Tahawwur Hussain Rana, 49, a Pakistani-Canadian living in Chicago, was indicted in January on three counts of conspiracy to provide material support to the Mumbai attacks; conspiracy to provide material support to the Denmark plot; and providing material support to Lashkar. 

He has pleaded not guilty and remains in federal custody in Chicago while awaiting trial. 

Headley, Prosecutors said has cooperated with the Government since he was arrested on Oct 3, 2009, and the plea agreement states that he "has provided substantial assistance to the criminal investigation, and also has provided information of significant intelligence value." 

In light of Headley's past cooperation and expected future cooperation, the Attorney General Eric Holder has authorised the US Attorney in Chicago not to seek the death penalty against Headley, prosecutors said. 


"When directed by the US Attorney's office, Headley must fully and truthfully participate in any debriefings for the purpose of gathering intelligence or national security information," they said. 


"*Today's guilty plea is a crucial step forward in our efforts to achieve justice for the more than 160 people who lost their lives in the Mumbai terrorist attacks. Working with our domestic and international partners, we will not rest until all those responsible for the Mumbai attacks and the terror plot in Denmark are held accountable," Holder said*. 

"Not only has the criminal justice system achieved a guilty plea in this case, but David Headley is now providing us valuable intelligence about terrorist activities. As this case demonstrates, we must continue to use every tool available to defeat terrorism both at home and abroad." 


Headley pleads guilty to terror charges; escapes death penalty- Hindustan Times


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## jagjitnatt

Waiting for Pakistan's response.
I wonder what they name this guy. Deepak Sharma from Gujarat???

Great work by the investigators. But its all going to go in vain. Pak is not interested in arresting the responsible or stopping terror training in their territory. 

All my hope lies with USA now. I hope they start *cleaning* Pak just like Afghanistan and Iraq.

For those who'll want to twist my statements,* clean does NOT mean to kill. Just remove the terrorists.*

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## ek_indian

If we are putting a hope on USA we are deluding ourselves.

There are simply too many US interest associated with Pakistan. They can not go for this action. If India only manages to talk to Headley, I guess this would be enough.

As for Pakistan, they are facing consequences of their policies.

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## Dark Angel

*The U.S has said that India will only be able to interrogate Headley *



India says it will work with America to figure out how and when it can interrogate David Coleman Headley, the Pakistani-American who has, in a plea bargain in America, accepted that he helped plan and execute 26/11.

Home Minister P Chidambaram said he is not certain about whether India's intelligence officials will be allowed to directly question Headley. According to Headley's plea bargain, Chidambaram pointed out, "He will either testify in a proceeding or allow himself to be interrogated. There is a distinction," he said, pointing out that India has already sent questions to America for Headley.


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## IMADreamer

Dark Angel said:


> Indo-Asian News Service
> Chicago, March 19, 2010
> First Published: 00:26 IST(19/3/2010)
> 
> 
> To avoid a possible death sentence and extradition to India, Pakistani American terror suspect David Coleman Headley has pleaded guilty to a dozen federal terrorism charges, admitting his role in planning the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks.
> 
> In pleading guilty on Thursday to all 12 counts that were brought against him in December and were repeated in a subsequent indictment in January, Headley, 49, admitted that he attended training camps in Pakistan operated by Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), a designated foreign terrorist organisation, on five separate occasions between 2002 and 2005.
> 
> Prosecutors said in late 2005, Headley received instructions from three members of LeT to travel to India to conduct surveillance.
> 
> Son of a Pakistani father and an American mother, he changed his name from Daood Gilani in 2006 to visit India five times to scout targets for the Nov 26 Mumbai attacks that killed 164 people including six Americans.
> 
> Appearing before US District Judge Harry Leinenweber in Federal Court here, Headley dressed in an orange jump suit with his hands and legs shackled also pleaded guilty to planning an attack on a Danish newspaper that had published cartoons lampooning the Prophet Mohammad.
> 
> 
> Headley's co-accused, Tahawwur Hussain Rana, 49, a Pakistani-Canadian living in Chicago, was indicted in January on three counts of conspiracy to provide material support to the Mumbai attacks; conspiracy to provide material support to the Denmark plot; and providing material support to Lashkar.
> 
> He has pleaded not guilty and remains in federal custody in Chicago while awaiting trial.
> 
> Headley, Prosecutors said has cooperated with the Government since he was arrested on Oct 3, 2009, and the plea agreement states that he "has provided substantial assistance to the criminal investigation, and also has provided information of significant intelligence value."
> 
> In light of Headley's past cooperation and expected future cooperation, the Attorney General Eric Holder has authorised the US Attorney in Chicago not to seek the death penalty against Headley, prosecutors said.
> 
> 
> "When directed by the US Attorney's office, Headley must fully and truthfully participate in any debriefings for the purpose of gathering intelligence or national security information," they said.
> 
> 
> "*Today's guilty plea is a crucial step forward in our efforts to achieve justice for the more than 160 people who lost their lives in the Mumbai terrorist attacks. Working with our domestic and international partners, we will not rest until all those responsible for the Mumbai attacks and the terror plot in Denmark are held accountable," Holder said*.
> 
> "Not only has the criminal justice system achieved a guilty plea in this case, but David Headley is now providing us valuable intelligence about terrorist activities. As this case demonstrates, we must continue to use every tool available to defeat terrorism both at home and abroad."
> 
> 
> Headley pleads guilty to terror charges; escapes death penalty- Hindustan Times



I don't think mod will allow discussion on this topic bcoz similer thread already closed by him..(Perhaps aaj unka mood kharab hain )

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/51133-headley-attended-five-terror-camps-pakistan.html


along with

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...e-worlds-most-educated-people-2030-sibal.html


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## equiliz3r

ab ayea unth pahar ke neehey


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## Spring Onion

jagjitnatt said:


> Waiting for Pakistan's response.
> I wonder what they name this guy. Deepak Sharma from Gujarat???
> 
> Great work by the investigators. But its all going to go in vain. Pak is not interested in arresting the responsible or stopping terror training in their territory.
> 
> All my hope lies with USA now. I hope they start *cleaning* Pak just like Afghanistan and Iraq.
> 
> For those who'll want to twist my statements,* clean does NOT mean to kill. Just remove the terrorists.*




 what reply you want. He is an American citizen not Pakistani citizen.

Secondly if your govt failed to show guts in asking US to extradit him its not our problem.


And the lastest is US managed to save her man from extradition to Bharat  and also from death penalty.

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## Spring Onion

Dark Angel said:


> *The U.S has said that India will only be able to interrogate Headley *
> 
> 
> 
> India says it will work with America to figure out how and when it can interrogate David Coleman Headley, the Pakistani-American who has, in a plea bargain in America, accepted that he helped plan and execute 26/11.
> 
> Home Minister P Chidambaram said he is not certain about whether India's intelligence officials will be allowed to directly question Headley. According to Headley's plea bargain, Chidambaram pointed out, "He will either testify in a proceeding or allow himself to be interrogated. There is a distinction," he said, pointing out that India has already sent questions to America for Headley.




 My personal opinion from start had been that US wont allow India any direct access to Headly neither she will extradit him to India.


Now there is a BIG difference between interogating him directly and sending your question paper to US for headly.


Above all US had managed this arrangment of going back on his plea of not guilty  this is not without any reason.


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## third eye

Jana said:


> My personal opinion from start had been that US wont allow India any direct access to Headly neither she will extradit him to India.
> 
> 
> Now there is a BIG difference between interogating him directly and sending your question paper to US for headly.
> 
> 
> Above all US had managed this arrangment of going back on his plea of not guilty  this is not without any reason.




This man has served in the Drug enforcement administration besides other shady orgnisations. Such men know & carry far too much information for any country to extradite.

Either way, what is of more relevance is the information & vindication of the stand India took all along on the planning,control, funding & execution of the Mumbai attack.

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## jagjitnatt

Jana said:


> what reply you want. He is an American citizen not Pakistani citizen.
> 
> Secondly if your govt failed to show guts in asking US to extradit him its not our problem.
> 
> 
> And the lastest is US managed to save her man from extradition to Bharat  and also from death penalty.




Do you represent Pakistan here? I am waiting for Pakistan's official response on his statement that he has visited terror camps in Pakistan.

Secondly, about the guts thing, we don't need him in India. We just want him punished if you understand the difference like we want Hafiz Saeed to be punished, not necessarily handed over to India. 

Headley is being treated like a criminal, the way he should be. Not like in Pakistan, where they enjoy special rights.

If Pakistan has enough guts, stop US from bombing in Pak. Then talk about our guts.
A poor attempt to flame...

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## Hulk

jagjitnatt said:


> Waiting for Pakistan's response.
> I wonder what they name this guy. Deepak Sharma from Gujarat???
> 
> Great work by the investigators. But its all going to go in vain. Pak is not interested in arresting the responsible or stopping terror training in their territory.
> 
> All my hope lies with USA now. I hope they start *cleaning* Pak just like Afghanistan and Iraq.
> 
> For those who'll want to twist my statements,* clean does NOT mean to kill. Just remove the terrorists.*



Jagji,
I do not think Pakistan is going to ever act. The way they have approached our request says it all. They insist that that every crime should be proved conclusively, that is not possible when the criminal is not in your country. Now I will not depend on USA to great extent either, they will look for their own agenda first.
We can have corporation from USA in form of intelligence sharing, equipments, training etc.

What we should do is make our anti terror system strong.
Nothing can be substitute of self reliance.

You will agree with me that most of these attacks that happened in India either can be averted if we were seriously working hard or damage could have been reduced.

Do you know on night of 26/11 we knew for 2 hours which exact room the terrorist were, but could not neutralize them since we did not had basic weapons like AK available with police. (That I feel is shame on our security forces, I mean police here).

We need to ramp up our police for to be 21st century force, and our friends in J&K police can help us. One other mistake on 26/11 was not calling help from J&K police, I have learned that their experience is invaluable.


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## Spring Onion

jagjitnatt said:


> Do you represent Pakistan here? I am waiting for Pakistan's official response on his statement that he has visited terror camps in Pakistan.
> 
> Secondly, about the guts thing, we don't need him in India. We just want him punished if you understand the difference like we want Hafiz Saeed to be punished, not necessarily handed over to India.
> 
> Headley is being treated like a criminal, the way he should be. Not like in Pakistan, where they enjoy special rights.
> 
> If Pakistan has enough guts, stop US from bombing in Pak. Then talk about our guts.
> A poor attempt to flame...



we dont speak for non-Pakistanis  why you want any official statment for a US citizen??

US had a big role in Mumbai attacks and you need to check all aspects. Headly was arrested in connection with danish artist's attack case and now he had been linked to Mumbai. And oh he had also been asked to plead guilty why ???

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## Spring Onion

third eye said:


> This man has served in the Drug enforcement administration besides other shady orgnisations. Such men know & carry far too much information for any country to extradite.
> 
> Either way, what is of more relevance is the information & vindication of the stand India took all along on the planning,control, funding & execution of the Mumbai attack.



 he had been used very nicely. Indo-Pak tension was nicely arosed, US played nice role by coming closer to India and maintaining pressure on Pakistan as well viz a viz Afghanistan. 

At the end job nicely done, Ghun bhi pess gaya aur gehoon bhi bach gaya, 

If you keep aside opposition to Pakistan and look into the entire project you will come to know why US kept quit when it had the information about the attack beforehand?


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## Choppers

Jana said:


> My personal opinion from start had been that US wont allow India any direct access to Headly neither she will extradit him to India.
> 
> 
> Now there is a BIG difference between interogating him directly and sending your question paper to US for headly.
> 
> 
> Above all US had managed this arrangment of going back on his plea of not guilty  this is not without any reason.







> *India can question Headley on American soil: US​*Chicago, Mar 19 (PTI)
> 
> Pakistani American terrorist David Headley can now be directly questioned by Indian investigators after his confession in a court in Chicago that he was involved in the Mumbai terror attacks, although he will not be extradited to India.
> 
> The US, which has so far denied India the right to question Headley, arrested by the FBI in October last year, said he has agreed to ''fully and truthfully'' participate in this process which has to be undertaken only on US soil.
> 
> Headley, accused of plotting the 26/11 Mumbai attacks at the behest of Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Toiba and conspiring to target a Danish newspaper, last night pleaded guilty to all terror charges before a US court here.
> 
> Under the plea bargain, he has escaped death penalty and got away with a life sentence. He also cannot be extradited from the US.
> 
> "When directed by the US Attorney&#8217;s Office, Headley must fully and truthfully participate in any debriefings for the purpose of gathering intelligence or national security information," the US Department of Justice has said in a statement.
> 
> "Headley further agrees that, when directed by the United States Attorney&#8217;s Office, he will fully and truthfully testify in any foreign judicial proceedings held in the United States by way of deposition, video-conferencing or letters rogatory," the statement said soon after the 49-year- old Chicago resident pleaded guilty on all 12 charges against him.
> 
> Headley's lawyer John Theis told reporters after the over 30-minute hearing held before US District Judge Harry Leinenweber that "he has agreed to allow himself to be interviewed by foreign governments in this country" as part of the agreement.
> 
> India, which had pressed for the maximum death penalty to Headley, can now approach the US to directly question him.
> 
> His admission of being trained in Pakistan terror camps nails Islamabad's lie that such camps were non-existence.
> 
> Headley faces six counts of conspiracy involving bombing public places in India, murdering and maiming persons and providing material support to foreign terrorist plots and LeT; and six counts of aiding and abetting the murder of six US citizens in the 26/11 attacks that killed 166 people.
> 
> Under the plea agreement, Headley cannot be extradited to India, Pakistan or Denmark.
> "Headley has agreed to not only continue his cooperation with the government, which he has been doing since October, but also to make himself available for interviews by other governments in this country," Headley's attorney John Theis told reporters after the over 30-minute hearing held before US District Judge Harry Leinenweber.
> 
> Headley, who had pleaded not guilty on January 14 to the charges against him, did a U-turn in the 35-page plea agreement where he pleaded guilty to all the charges.



Headley can be directly quizzed by India on American soil: US


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## Iggy

Jana said:


> we dont speak for non-Pakistanis  why you want any official statment for a US citizen??
> 
> US had a big role in Mumbai attacks and you need to check all aspects. Headly was arrested in connection with danish artist's attack case and now he had been linked to Mumbai. And oh he had also been asked to plead guilty why ???



Now you no longer belive in the inside job of RAW and Hindu extrimists in mumbai attack??


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## Choppers

*India will have full access to information on Headley: U.S.​*PTINEW DELHI, March 19, 2010​





_U.S. Assistant Secretary for South and Central Asian Affairs Robert Blake assured India that it would have full access to David Headley_

India will have full access to all the information on terror suspect David Headley, who pleaded guilty before a Chicago court to all 12 terror charges including the 26/11 Mumbai attacks, U.S. Assistant Secretary for South and Central Asian Affairs Robert Blake said here on Friday.

However, he said he was not in a position to answer if an Indian team could go to the US to question Headley.

... But I think you will have full access to all the information and whether or not an Indian team itself can go there, I cannot answer that question because I was not in the US during that period but I encourage you to be in touch with our justice department, Mr. Blake said.

Mr. Blake, who is on a visit to Afghanistan and India, said Headleys confession had showed how the threat of LeT had grown significantly and asked Pakistan to work more on that front.

He said Pakistan has made important progress on the issue of terror but there is still work to be done.

....We still think that there needs to be progress on LeT in particular. The Headley case in our view illustrates the increasing global scope and ambition of LeT and therefore, the need for all of our countries to take the LeT threat seriously and cooperate with each other.

India may quiz Headley across table

India today said that a lighter sentence of less than 20 years for the US terror accused David Headley will be a matter of concern and Government will initiate the process for getting him interrogated across the table.

Government sources also fear that there could be a hidden deal between Pakistani-American Headley and the US Government under which he could get a lighter sentence of much less than 20 years after which he may even get a new identity and be free under the witness protection scheme in the US.

While being not much optimistic about getting Headley extradited to India, officials said that National Investigation Agency (NIA) will file a charge sheet against Headley and his accomplice Pakistani-Canadian Tahawwur Rana to enable his questioning across the table in the case.

After his appearance in a Chicago court yesterday under the plea bargain agreement, the US Attorney General has said that Headley as agreed to fully and truthfully testify in any foreign judicial proceedings held in the US by way of deposition, video conferencing or Letters Rogatory.

The NIA has registered a case against Headley and Rana for allegedly conspiring to wage a war against the country and under various sections of Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act.

Government is watching with caution the plea bargain made by Headley under which if he continues to cooperate fully he could press for a downward impeachment, implying lesser punishment.

The sources said that the Government has evidence of offences committed by Headley in India besides the 12 counts for which he has pleaded guilty.

If need be, the security agencies can register a fresh case and seek his extradition in case the punishment was much below the expected lines, a senior official said.

The official said one of the gains of the case is that the US has now accepted that there were players other than the LeT terrorists in the conspiracy behind Mumbai terror strikes.

India has been maintaining that regular Pakistani army personnel have been involved in the Mumbai attack conspiracy and recently a dossier on two Pakistani Army majors in this connection was handed over to Pakistan Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir.

The Hindu : News / International : India will have &ldquo;full access&rdquo; to information on Headley: U.S.


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## kumar_V1.0

They should open an University of Terrorism in Pakistan where these tarrorist from all over the world can come and get trained. You earn some revenue as well.

Now don't frown on me as some one said Headley is an American citizen still he got his education in terrorism from Pakistan.

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## ARCHON

jagjitnatt said:


> Do you represent Pakistan here? I am waiting for Pakistan's official response on his statement that he has visited terror camps in Pakistan.
> 
> Secondly, about the guts thing, we don't need him in India. We just want him punished if you understand the difference like we want Hafiz Saeed to be punished, not necessarily handed over to India.
> 
> Headley is being treated like a criminal, the way he should be. Not like in Pakistan, where they enjoy special rights.
> 
> If Pakistan has enough guts, stop US from bombing in Pak. Then talk about our guts.
> A poor attempt to flame...





Just agree to jana david headley aka Daood Sayed Gilani is not a pakistani born american citizen

Also agree he has never traveled to Pakistan and met Ilyas kashmiri and all...

Also just agree he changed his name to a Christian name because he loved Christianity more.

Agree to her that he didn't confess to US , and its just a american propaganda..

Agree with her when she says Us hasnt yet given India authority to question headley..

Agree with her that headley was just for vacation visiting India and visiting the spots of the blasts were just pure co incidence.

Agree with her when she says Pakistan has nothing to do with her.. maybe she is right headley being a video shop earlier may have planned to bomb Indian cities because he hated bollywood movies.

Agree with her when she denies he never attended the Cadet College Hasan Abdal, a preparatory boys' high school for the military.

In 1998 he was convicted of conspiring to smuggle heroin into the country from Pakistan. After his arrest, he provided much information about his Pakistani drug contacts and got less than two years in jail. He later went to Pakistan to conduct undercover surveillance operations for the Drug Enforcement Administration. In 2002 and three times in 2003, he attended Lashkar-e-Taiba training camps in Pakistan.
The source is Wikipedia( biased to India ) so don't bother.


And finally agree that he didn't confess at all as he is a very distinguishable US citizen.


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## Peshwa

Jana said:


> what reply you want. He is an American citizen not Pakistani citizen.
> 
> Secondly if your govt failed to show guts in asking US to extradit him its not our problem.
> 
> 
> And the lastest is US managed to save her man from extradition to Bharat  and also from death penalty.



Jana.....why dont we concentrate on the "key issues" instead of digressing to the usual....Non-state actor ploy?

Remember, Headley visited terror camps between 2002 and 2005 in Pakistan and scouted India for possible targets in 2006. The attack happened in 2008, dont you think its safe to assume that these terror camps which Musharraf and your govt claimed had been closed are obviously still very much operating....

Why dont we ever hear you speak or support Pakistan Army targeting these camps based on info Headley provides? Shouldnt that be a first step towards normalizing relations with India? Isnt that what India has always said was their intention to seek justice for 26/11?

Yet from your tone, it seems you are almost defending Headley......
I think there is very little to deny that your country is being used as a breeding ground for terror more than a freedom movement.....if there ever was one.....
I think if Pakistan is serious about peace with India, disabling the terror network in Pakistan under the guise of "freedom fighters" needs to be on top of the list

I hope to see Pakistanis support this...

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## Spring Onion

kumar_V1.0 said:


> They should open an University of Terrorism in Pakistan where these tarrorist from all over the world can come and get trained. You earn some revenue as well.
> 
> Now don't frown on me as some one said Headley is an American citizen still he got his education in terrorism from Pakistan.



Did India open University of Terrorism In India for LTTE and BLA terrorists which were and are being given terrorism education in India ???


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## Peshwa

Jana said:


> Did India open University of Terrorism In India for LTTE and BLA terrorists which were and are being given terrorism education in India ???



LTTE may have received initial support from India, but that stopped after the Rajiv Gandhi assasination....buried skeletons since LTTE exists no more....besides....None of Pakistans business.....Sri-Lanka can take that up with us...

BLA is a conspiracy theory and even if you are able to lend support to this fairy tale in Pakistan, NEVER has there been any terror camp on Indian soil to target Pakistanis....
But the recent events including Headleys testimony shed light on Pakistani soil being used for terrorism in India and abroad....

As always....your accusations are baseless and lack any weight.....

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## raw@war

Jana said:


> Did India open University of Terrorism In India for LTTE and BLA terrorists which were and are being given terrorism education in India ???



Jana,

Don't talk like "INDIA TV" journalist.

Do you have any proof.

If don't then just keep writing such craps as it will increase your post count.


Thanks

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## forcetrip

Rather than running away from questions and posting other offhand information which has nothing to do with the topic the better solution would be to not post. Yes, a lot of people claimed it was an Indian inside job (especially that nut case Zaid Hamid) and that has been proven wrong. Facts speak louder than conspiracies. Now to be completely honest, the supposed terrorist training camps that you mention are not considered "terrorists". The indians can holler and shout but the trust factor on both sides is 0. Both parties have their hands dirty with the blood of innocent people. The same camps were run and operated by Indians as well, but with the new found money came new found assets. We however did not find any new money so we continue to employ our old methods. We will suffer by having them but the risk of not having them is even greater. Therefore the people you call terrorists will be our assets for at least the next 3-5 years.

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## Peshwa

forcetrip said:


> Rather than running away from questions and posting other offhand information which has nothing to do with the topic the better solution would be to not post. Yes, a lot of people claimed it was an Indian inside job (especially that nut case Zaid Hamid) and that has been proven wrong. Facts speak louder than conspiracies. *Now to be completely honest, the supposed terrorist training camps that you mention are not considered "terrorists"*. The indians can holler and shout but the trust factor on both sides is 0. Both parties have their hands dirty with the blood of innocent people. The same camps were run and operated by Indians as well, but with the new found money came new found assets. We however did not find any new money so we continue to employ our old methods. We will suffer by having them but the risk of not having them is even greater. Therefore the people you call terrorists will be our assets for at least the next 3-5 years.




Forcetrip, I usually agree with most of your views...quite balanced I must say....

The highlighted portion is important.....
Support to the freedom of Kashmir and the fight against Indian forces I can rationalize.....
But when these same freedom fighters target civilians in parts of India outside of Kashmir or even in Kashmire, then they lose their moral right to be called freedom fighters....

What I want to know is, shouldnt there be a change in Pakistani ideology and thinking to differentiate between an act of freedom struggle and terrorism? Why is it that LET is not considered a terrorist org even when Pakistan is getting a taste of what we are facing in events like 26/11?

Also can you elaborate on what you mean by "The same camps were run and operated by Indians as well, but with the new found money came new found assets".

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## forcetrip

You have to understand that these operations are conducted by the Group themselves. Does not mean they have been sanctioned by the government. They have their own mission statements from which they get money and support. I am against terrorism but I am also stable enough to understand a necessary evil. I am sorry I come off as a hypocrite in this case. But I will accept my hypocrisy for another couple of years till we get our affairs in order. Then I will voice my concern on their not needed existence. And yes we are facing the bite of the dog we raised, but like i said a bite is better than a severed head.

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## Choppers

*India can question Headley on U.S. soil​*NARAYAN LAKSHMANWASHINGTON DC, March 19, 2010​




_This file photo shows the apartment of David Coleman Headley in Chicago. Post Headley's confession, he may serve a 'lighter' sentence_

*Plea agreement rules out possibility of extradition.*

Indian authorities will be able to question David Coleman Headley, accused in the 2008 Mumbai attacks and facing 12 terror charges in a Chicago court, but within the United States only, as per a plea agreement that he struck with the court on Thursday.

As per the agreement, based on a change of Headley's plea from not guilty to guilty on all charges, he is currently facing life imprisonment, instead of the death penalty, and is also mandated to continuously cooperate with authorities in providing information regarding terror investigations.

In a conversation with The Hindu, shortly after the agreement was struck, his attorney, John Theis, said that Headley had provided important information to the authorities, which had already &#8220;helped save lives.&#8221; He said that while he had no information from law enforcement agencies about what they did with any information provided by Headley, &#8220;My understanding is that the United States government has shared information with the Indian government on a regular basis.&#8221;

The 35-page plea agreement clearly leaves room for Indian authorities to have access to Headley in the context of terror-related investigations in the future. Mr. Theis, however, emphasised that would have to be on U.S. soil as per the agreement. The relevant section reads: &#8220;Defendant further agrees that, when directed by the United States Attorney's Office, he will fully and truthfully testify in any foreign judicial proceedings held in the United States by way of deposition, videoconferencing or letters rogatory.&#8221;

The agreement effectively rules out the possibility of extradition, stating that pursuant to the U.S.'s extradition treaties with India, Denmark and Pakistan, the &#8220;defendant shall not be extradited to the Republic of India, them Kingdom of Denmark, or the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, respectively, for any offenses for which he has been convicted in accordance with this plea.&#8221;

In terms of the possible future course of Headley's sentencing, Mr. Theis said that as per his plea agreement he may be eligible for &#8220;downward departure&#8221; which is essentially a lighter sentence than life imprisonment, again conditional upon his continued cooperation. He was, however, unable to confirm how many years in prison Headley might face in such circumstances, saying that that would be pure &#8220;speculation.&#8221;

Headley has &#8220;agreed not to be sentenced until the case is over,&#8221; Mr. Theis said, confirming that sentencing would depend on the arrest and trial of Headley's co-defendants, including Tahawwur Rana, Illyas Kashmiri and Abdur Rehman Hashim Syed. Mr. Theis said at this point it was unclear how long that might take or if indeed they would all be brought before the U.S. justice system. In any case, Headley would likely remain in custody until such time, Mr. Theis added.

*The 12 charges against Headley are:* 

1.Conspiracy to bomb places of public use in India 

2. Conspiracy to murder and maim persons in India 

3-8.Aiding and abetting the murders of six United States nationals in Mumbai 

9.Conspiracy to provide material support to terrorism in India

10.Conspiracy to murder and maim persons in Denmark 

11.conspiracy to provide material support to terrorism in Denmark 

12.And providing material support to Lashkar-e-Taiba


_LINK:_
The Hindu : News / International : India can question Headley on U.S. soil


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## Peshwa

forcetrip said:


> You have to understand that these operations are conducted by the Group themselves. Does not mean they have been sanctioned by the government. They have their own mission statements from which they get money and support. I am against terrorism but I am also stable enough to understand a necessary evil. I am sorry I come off as a hypocrite in this case. But I will accept my hypocrisy for another couple of years till we get our affairs in order. *Then I will voice my concern on their not needed existence.* And yes we are facing the bite of the dog we raised, but like i said a bite is better than a severed head.



So if these are assets saved for a rainy day.....

What's the point of diplomacy and peace talks and coming to the table.....?
The way I see it, India is in a stronger position at the moment, so to GOI, even the mere existance of Anti-India groups like LET etc becomes a hurdle in coming to terms in a peaceful manner with Pakistan....You see in the subcontinent symbolism speaks for a lot....
I feel there will never be a peaceful solution to Kashmir....esp when proxies exist....

Also, I think I can already see signs of LET taking on a new face with its leadership questioning the moral position and legality of the Pakistani Govt. If this continues, which it will since I dont see Pakistan being under Army rule for a long time, you will have another TTP at your hands, except this time it will bite you the way LTTE bit us.....
Wouldnt it just be easier to get rid of all terrorism once and for all?


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## Spring Onion

raw@war said:


> Jana,
> 
> *Don't talk like "INDIA TV" journalist.*
> 
> Do you have any proof.
> 
> If don't then just keep writing such craps as it will increase your post count.
> 
> 
> Thanks



 *you mean Indian Media talks crap without proofs *

thank you thank you we all agree


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## gubbi

Jana said:


> what reply you want. He is an American citizen not Pakistani citizen.


Still doesnt refute the fact that he attended training camps in Pakistani territory under the auspices of LeT or JuD as some prefer to call it.


> Secondly if your govt failed to show guts in asking US to extradit him its not our problem.


US has never and will never extradite any of its citizens to another country to stand trial. But be assured, criminals will pay for their crimes, US judiciary makes sure of that.


> And the lastest is US managed to save her man from extradition to Bharat  and also from death penalty.


What an uneducated response! US does not have death penalty? Are you kidding me? But when you plead guilty and work with the prosecutors, death sentence is mostly waved off, but not with certainty.


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## ARCHON

Jana said:


> Did India open University of Terrorism In India for LTTE and BLA terrorists which were and are being given terrorism education in India ???



No we provided srilankan army some arms to fight LTTE. 

Jana you might not be knowing that India has even send an army to oppress LTTE which ultimately resulted in assassination of one prime minister called rajiv gandhi.

No jana, no university has yet been opened and wont happen since LTTE is no more.


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## ARCHON

Jana said:


> *you mean Indian Media talks crap without proofs *
> 
> thank you thank you we all agree



If it makes you happy.... we too agree .. thats why nowadays we only read rupee news and huqs musings...

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## forcetrip

Peshwa said:


> So if these are assets saved for a rainy day.....
> 
> What's the point of diplomacy and peace talks and coming to the table.....?
> The way I see it, India is in a stronger position at the moment, so to GOI, even the mere existance of Anti-India groups like LET etc becomes a hurdle in coming to terms in a peaceful manner with Pakistan....You see in the subcontinent symbolism speaks for a lot....
> I feel there will never be a peaceful solution to Kashmir....esp when proxies exist....



Me or you have no information as to how things are planned out on either sides of the border. If our military was purposely axing their own foot by having these assets that would be a different story. Somehow people from the other side dont accept or our military can not provide credible evidence of Indian involvement in some areas. For the time being I seem to think they have reasons to keep them around, moreover I think they have their reasons. But I do agree with you that this hurdle should be dealt with when BOTH parties decide that peace has to come. Now what me personally thinks happened is that India just bought some of our terrorist camps so by basically not actually having a terrorist camp in your own country does not mean you dont have a camp at all. There is not a religion or product in this world that you cant buy with money. Sooner we as a nation understand that we will understand how to make that money and not have it stolen by anyone that gets elected.

P.S about that part about why we try to get on the table and talk peace. The acting continues to be on 2 sides. The Pakistan government wants to talk about things other than terrorism and the Indians want to talk nothing but.


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## Spring Onion

birdofprey said:


> No we provided srilankan army some arms to fight LTTE.
> 
> Jana you might not be knowing that India has even send an army to oppress LTTE which ultimately resulted in assassination of one prime minister called rajiv gandhi.
> 
> No jana, no university has yet been opened and wont happen since LTTE is no more.



 You are new to the forum so nevermind 

we have beaten this topic of Indian support formation, funding and shelttering to LTTE, to death in the past. 

And we also debated how RAW was still supporting LTTE terrorists when IPKF was fighting in Sri Lanka.


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## jagjitnatt

Jana said:


> You are new to the forum so nevermind
> 
> we have beaten this topic of Indian support formation, funding and shelttering to LTTE, to death in the past.
> 
> And *we also debated how RAW was still supporting LTTE terrorists *when IPKF was fighting in Sri Lanka.



Yes it was debated, but like always, none of the Pakistani members were ready to accept what the world had to say.

You will never accept that anything of this sort happened. But without ANY proof you can claim that Indians are involved in BLA and what not.

You want us to believe your stories that nobody believes in and you have no proof to back it up but you not ready to believe or even hear what the world believes and has proof to support their claim.

How Smart...

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## Frankenstein

Why is RAW involved in terrorist activities in Pakistan,?? 
Why use Afghanistan for training terrorist??
RAW Indian Intelligence Agency is Training Terrorists in Afghanistan - Topix
?RAW training 600 terrorists In Afghanistan? Senator Mushahid - Pakistan - Zimbio
Why do many terrorist caught in Pakistan uses weapons of Indian origin??

Ahmed Quraishi.com
Give us our answers and we will give yours (Although Mumbai Attacks was an inside job)
Stop posting BS so called senior members


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## ARCHON

> Originally Posted by Jana
> Did India open University of Terrorism In India for LTTE and BLA terrorists which were and are being given terrorism education in India ???





> you are new to the forum so nevermind
> 
> we have beaten this topic of Indian support formation, funding and shelttering to LTTE, to death in the past.
> 
> And we also debated how RAW was still supporting LTTE terrorists when IPKF was fighting in Sri Lanka.



i guess it was u who brought back the topic from ashes.. i was just replying to ur post..


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## ARCHON

Frankenstein said:


> Why is RAW involved in terrorist activities in Pakistan,??
> Why use Afghanistan for training terrorist??
> RAW Indian Intelligence Agency is Training Terrorists in Afghanistan - Topix
> ?RAW training 600 terrorists In Afghanistan? Senator Mushahid - Pakistan - Zimbio
> Why do many terrorist caught in Pakistan uses weapons of Indian origin??
> 
> Ahmed Quraishi.com
> Give us our answers and we will give yours (Although Mumbai Attacks was an inside job)
> Stop posting BS so called senior members



The Vickers machine gun or Vickers gun is a name primarily used to refer to the water-cooled .303 inch (7.7 mm) machine gun produced by Vickers Limited, originally for the British Army. The machine gun typically required a six- to eight-man team to operate: one to fire, one to feed the ammunition, and the rest to help carry the weapon, its ammunition and spare parts. It served from before the First World War until after the end of the Second World War.


so Indian huh????


The Vickers MG remains in service with the Indian, Pakistani, and Nepalese armed forces, albeit as a reserve weapon, intended for emergency use in the event of a major conflict.

maybe it was nepalese.....


Users


Australia
Canada
New Zealand
Rhodesia
South Africa
United Kingdom
Pakistan
India
Nepal
Bolivia
Ireland
Egypt


and out of these Indian ones ended in swat..



now who is BS ing????

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## Iggy

Frankenstein said:


> Why is RAW involved in terrorist activities in Pakistan,??
> Why use Afghanistan for training terrorist??
> RAW Indian Intelligence Agency is Training Terrorists in Afghanistan - Topix
> ?RAW training 600 terrorists In Afghanistan? Senator Mushahid - Pakistan - Zimbio
> Why do many terrorist caught in Pakistan uses weapons of Indian origin??
> 
> Ahmed Quraishi.com
> Give us our answers and we will give yours (Although Mumbai Attacks was an inside job)
> Stop posting BS so called senior members





looking at the pictures i can see India is providing *very advanced weapons* to the terrorists

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## ARCHON

Aside from these commercial guns sent directly from Vickers Ltd., both India and Pakistan were British colonies until their independance in 1949. They were therefore supplied with British Service guns before that time - and used them for long after. The Indians had significant manufacturing capabilty and produced some of their own accessories and spares. There were also the relevant Small Arms Training manuals produced with Indian variations and printed in both English and Urdu.

The Vickers Machine Gun: Around the world

from the original manufacturers site.. not some qureshi or fancy hindu name site.. okay????


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## Frankenstein

seiko said:


> looking at the pictures i can see India is providing *very advanced weapons* to the terrorists


sahee bat ki ha


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## Frankenstein

birdofprey said:


> The Vickers machine gun or Vickers gun is a name primarily used to refer to the water-cooled .303 inch (7.7 mm) machine gun produced by Vickers Limited, originally for the British Army. The machine gun typically required a six- to eight-man team to operate: one to fire, one to feed the ammunition, and the rest to help carry the weapon, its ammunition and spare parts. It served from before the First World War until after the end of the Second World War.
> 
> 
> so Indian huh????
> 
> 
> The Vickers MG remains in service with the Indian, Pakistani, and Nepalese armed forces, albeit as a reserve weapon, intended for emergency use in the event of a major conflict.
> 
> maybe it was nepalese.....
> 
> 
> Users
> 
> 
> Australia
> Canada
> New Zealand
> Rhodesia
> South Africa
> United Kingdom
> Pakistan
> India
> Nepal
> Bolivia
> Ireland
> Egypt
> 
> 
> and out of these Indian ones ended in swat..
> 
> 
> 
> *now who is BS ing????*



you are, the image clearly says Indian Vickers machine


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## Frankenstein




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## forcetrip

Frankenstein said:


> Why is RAW involved in terrorist activities in Pakistan,??
> Why use Afghanistan for training terrorist??
> RAW Indian Intelligence Agency is Training Terrorists in Afghanistan - Topix
> ?RAW training 600 terrorists In Afghanistan? Senator Mushahid - Pakistan - Zimbio
> Why do many terrorist caught in Pakistan uses weapons of Indian origin??
> 
> Ahmed Quraishi.com
> Give us our answers and we will give yours (Although Mumbai Attacks was an inside job)
> Stop posting BS so called senior members



This has been said before. Weapons itself are not identified with counties. Just cause a Taliban roams around with a AK does not mean he met with a russian to get it. Yes there are hunches and tracks that indians are involved in those parts but they are not facts till credible information is found. In these cases is very very difficult. They dont write checks and most of the information is not even given by the handlers to the participants. The only sane way is to shake your head and to destroy the enemy till there are no recipients of the said guns and money. Our army has done exactly that. Said very little about Indian involvement but continued to find the sources of the money coming in and stop it.

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## Peshwa

Self Delete


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## Frankenstein

forcetrip said:


> This has been said before. Weapons itself are not identified with counties. Just cause a Taliban roams around with a AK does not mean he met with a russian to get it. Yes there are hunches and tracks that indians are involved in those parts but they are not facts till credible information is found. In these cases is very very difficult. They dont write checks and most of the information is not even given by the handlers to the participants. The only sane way is to shake your head and to destroy the enemy till there are no recipients of the said guns and money. Our army has done exactly that. Said very little about Indian involvement but continued to find the sources of the money coming in and stop it.


Its not only guns i am talking about buddy, i am talk abut weapons, and it was all over the news please dont tell me


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## Frankenstein

Peshwa said:


> Self Delete


whole thread self deleted


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## jagjitnatt

Frankenstein said:


> Why is RAW involved in terrorist activities in Pakistan,??
> Why use Afghanistan for training terrorist??
> RAW Indian Intelligence Agency is Training Terrorists in Afghanistan - Topix
> ?RAW training 600 terrorists In Afghanistan? Senator Mushahid - Pakistan - Zimbio
> Why do many terrorist caught in Pakistan uses weapons of Indian origin??
> 
> Ahmed Quraishi.com
> Give us our answers and we will give yours (Although Mumbai Attacks was an inside job)
> Stop posting BS so called senior members


*dude, this is not vikers machine gun.
*

And Pakistan was also one of the users of Vickers machine gun. That pic is not a proof, but a joke. This is the real Vickers.

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## ARCHON

Frankenstein said:


> [/B]
> you are, the image clearly says Indian Vickers machine



You can put anything in a picture even using windows paint .. ok i will redit the picture and put mongolian vikers machine and u please believe that toooo


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## PAKFA

Frankenstein said:


> Why is RAW involved in terrorist activities in Pakistan,??
> Why use Afghanistan for training terrorist??
> RAW Indian Intelligence Agency is Training Terrorists in Afghanistan - Topix
> ?RAW training 600 terrorists In Afghanistan? Senator Mushahid - Pakistan - Zimbio
> Why do many terrorist caught in Pakistan uses weapons of Indian origin??
> 
> Ahmed Quraishi.com
> Give us our answers and we will give yours (Although Mumbai Attacks was an inside job)
> Stop posting BS so called senior members



Dont forget about Illeagal gun market in pakistan, They not only make copy of Vicker gun , even any advanced gun in world wheter AK 47 , German rifle.


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## Peshwa

Frankenstein said:


> whole thread self deleted



I was going to write a snarky comment, but Forcetrip had a more presentable argument.....

I think he is a rational person and you should learn from him....


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## Frankenstein

^^^yuppers i know that but buddy i am not only refereeing to Vickers machine gun only, there were many other traces as well


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## forcetrip

Frankenstein said:


> Its not only guns i am talking about buddy, i am talk abut weapons, and it was all over the news please dont tell me



Ill keep "explaining" to you what you dont know. All I can do with a keyboard and a couple of minutes to spare over tea. The hard part is while smiling and shaking my head over why I resort to "explaining" to you I could have been playing online checkers with a way smarter 9 year old.


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## Frankenstein

Its getting too hot ova here moving to one liner thread


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## Frankenstein

forcetrip said:


> Ill keep "explaining" to you what you dont know. All I can do with a keyboard and a couple of minutes to spare over tea. The hard part is while smiling and shaking my head over why I resort to "explaining" to you I could have been playing online checkers with a way smarter 9 year old.


LOL, i am no ISI or saink, that was all over news and i was also abit mad on guys posting BS so i just lost my temper abit, my 9 year sis wants to play pet society so she is eating my head lols


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## forcetrip

Frankenstein said:


> LOL, i am no ISI or saink, that was all over news and i was also abit mad on guys posting BS so i just lost my temper abit, my 9 year sis wants to play pet society so she is eating my head lols



 .. News is media which runs on sales. Try to keep up with ISPR reports. I think they come on once a day. I am not sure about that because I do not follow them myself. I wouldnt worry about what others say especially when they also follow the same media on the other side.

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## Peshwa

forcetrip said:


> Me or you have no information as to how things are planned out on either sides of the border. If our military was purposely axing their own foot by having these assets that would be a different story. Somehow people from the other side dont accept or our military can not provide credible evidence of Indian involvement in some areas. For the time being I seem to think they have reasons to keep them around, moreover I think they have their reasons. But I do agree with you that this hurdle should be dealt with when BOTH parties decide that peace has to come. Now what me personally thinks happened is that India just bought some of our terrorist camps so by basically not actually having a terrorist camp in your own country does not mean you dont have a camp at all. There is not a religion or product in this world that you cant buy with money. Sooner we as a nation understand that we will understand how to make that money and not have it stolen by anyone that gets elected.
> 
> *P.S about that part about why we try to get on the table and talk peace. The acting continues to be on 2 sides. The Pakistan government wants to talk about things other than terrorism and the Indians want to talk nothing but*



The bolded statement to me is the crux of the current situation....

To be honest, I dont really feel India or Pakistan are really interested in solving Kashmir.....
In Pak, the supreme command lies with the armed forces who have benefitted from conflict, and would like issues to simmer to legitmize their supremacy...Democracy according to me isnt the ideal method of governance esp when the army and ISI plays such an important behind the scenes role...

India has no interest in solving Kashmir and would like to prolong this issue as much as they can.....This allows India a "genuine" reason for a major arms build up....resulting in other aspirations such as power projection, UN security council, and securing resources....
Plus projecting Pakistan as a state that supports terrorism only makes the case for India's rule in Kashmir stronger....

I do agree both sides need to come to the table while seeking peace mutually, but there will never be an ideal scenario especially when there are multiple power centres and ulterior motives involved....

Obviously I can see the flip side of the equation putting myself in the Pakistani shoes....
But as an Indian, my case rests on the pillar that terrorism against Indian citizens should stop.....Terrorism in any form should stop..... period!!!

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## forcetrip

What you mentioned about the threat percieved and threat revealed instance is absolutely correct. India is overspending on arms on notion of a threat that does not exist. So becomes the disbalancing arms race. We cannot spend that much so we bridge that by having things that cannot be destroyed militarily. That comes under our right to defend and distract. I truely think after musharaff, orders were handed down to stop "Terror" activities and focus on different kind of projects with these assets. Constant turmoil, budget cuts and firmly indoctrinated middle management of these assets turned self governed or bought over by the bigger cheque. I still say that all this only ends when one side says "someone has to give and I shall be a man about it". and that is never going to happen. America tries to put us back on the table trying to play both sides. It needs both parties to dance around this as well. It serves its best interests. And why should some other country be concerned only about its interests and the interests of its own citizens? Unfortunately people think F16's grow on trees. Anyway, this has become a bit confusing even for me and I could go on and on about it with very very few people even understanding 10&#37; of what I have posted right now, but I compare our so called "Assets" to Landmines. I am against Landmines .. But cant afford those fancy bombs right now .. so I make do with Landmines.

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## Peshwa

forcetrip said:


> What you mentioned about the threat percieved and threat revealed instance is absolutely correct. India is overspending on arms on notion of a threat that does not exist. So becomes the disbalancing arms race. We cannot spend that much so we bridge that by having things that cannot be destroyed militarily. That comes under our right to defend and distract. I truely think after musharaff, orders were handed down to stop "Terror" activities and focus on different kind of projects with these assets. Constant turmoil, budget cuts and firmly indoctrinated middle management of these assets turned self governed or bought over by the bigger cheque. I still say that all this only ends when one side says "someone has to give and I shall be a man about it". and that is never going to happen. America tries to put us back on the table trying to play both sides. It needs both parties to dance around this as well. It serves its best interests. And why should some other country be concerned only about its interests and the interests of its own citizens? Unfortunately people think F16's grow on trees. Anyway, this has become a bit confusing even for me and I could go on and on about it with very very few people even understanding 10&#37; of what I have posted right *now, but I compare our so called "Assets" to Landmines. I am against Landmines *.. But cant afford those fancy bombs right now .. so I make do with Landmines.



Excellent comparison.....

A defensive weapon, however if one doesnt watch their step, has the potential to cause major collateral damage....

Abandoned landmines cause the most destruction.....just like the abandoned Mujahideen who took up the role of Taliban after the Soviet invasion giving us all a bloody migraine

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## Avatar

*"Solid Evidence"* by Pakistan's own media.


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## vandemataram

Jana said:


> You are new to the forum so nevermind
> 
> we have beaten this topic of Indian support formation, funding and shelttering to LTTE, to death in the past.
> 
> And we also debated how RAW was still supporting LTTE terrorists when IPKF was fighting in Sri Lanka.



Dont rant !!! The case is of David Headley, a Pakistani Origin American citizen who has converted to Christianity.

He might be a US citizen but his Paksitani roots are very strong. He might be a Quad Agent of the CIA/FBI or the LeT.

The issue in hand that all of Pakistan's white lies of propaganda, Mossad, KGB and RAW initiated Mumbai attacks are smothered to death.

Anyways there is no credibility of the Paksitani nation in the world stage. US may play games with us, by not extraditing him to India even if he is guilty according to Indian laws.

The point is all the evidences he is going to give to the Deptt of Justice and the "Ploy" by the US to give India access to headley is a kind of "How do we care" attitude.

*India should be concerned about the names and the key personnel in Pakistan who have collaborated with him, since it is happening in the United States, there can be no better damning evidence at to Pakistan ploy in planning, designing and masterminding the 26/11 attacks.

The US Deppt of Justice is going to ratify what this guy says now on.

Simply US has to do something, it had a deal cut out with him, extraditing him was very risky, thus they have to give the NIA of India access to him on the US soil....*


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## mokkaiboy

Jana said:


> Did India open University of Terrorism In India for LTTE and BLA terrorists which were and are being given terrorism education in India ???



common girl, you need to grow up. dont rant just for the sake...the whole world knows where the terrorism capital is located and how the people from that particular state is being treated even in 3rd world countries...


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## ouiouiouiouiouioui

Jana said:


> from start had been that US wont allow India any direct access to Headly neither she will extradit him to India.
> 
> 
> Now there is a BIG difference between interogating him directly and sending your question paper to US for headly.
> 
> 
> Above all US had managed this arrangment of going back on his plea of not guilty  this is not without any reason.



it is sure that whatever happens to headley there wont be any clue given to pakisatani's.....RAW and FBI may work this out secretly but what about links in pakistan.....this is a dangerous situation for pakistan....


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## thebrownguy

Jana said:


> what reply you want. He is an American citizen not Pakistani citizen.
> 
> Secondly if your govt failed to show guts in asking US to extradit him its not our problem.
> 
> 
> And the lastest is US managed to save her man from extradition to Bharat  and also from death penalty.



why are you getting so excited if a barbaric sick terrorist like him , who is responsible for massacre of innocents is escaping death penalty? Sick!!!
Also, he may be an american , but the point is he admits to have attended terror camps of LeT, in PAKISTAN!!
You are missing the whole bloody point.That should break your denial mode of "no terror camps" on Pakistan soil!!

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## Arik

Jana said:


> what reply you want. He is an American citizen not Pakistani citizen.
> 
> Secondly if your govt failed to show guts in asking US to extradit him its not our problem.
> 
> 
> And the lastest is US managed to save her man from extradition to Bharat  and also from death penalty.



He is an American citizen but brainwashed and trained in Pakistan.And the latest news is that the americans have asked Indian officials to interogate him either directly or via tele -conferencing.So think again.


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## Dark Angel

Frankenstein said:


> Why is RAW involved in terrorist activities in Pakistan,??
> Why use Afghanistan for training terrorist??
> RAW Indian Intelligence Agency is Training Terrorists in Afghanistan - Topix
> ?RAW training 600 terrorists In Afghanistan? Senator Mushahid - Pakistan - Zimbio
> Why do many terrorist caught in Pakistan uses weapons of Indian origin??
> 
> Ahmed Quraishi.com
> Give us our answers and we will give yours (Although Mumbai Attacks was an inside job)
> Stop posting BS so called senior members








*This gun is nothing compared to what pakistani illegal 

arms market is capable of making, they built AK-47 which cannot be 

diffrentiated with the real ones, what are u talking abt man watch this 

video its a eye opener for you*

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## illuminatidinesh

> what reply you want. He is an American citizen not Pakistani citizen.
> 
> Secondly if your govt failed to show guts in asking US to extradit him its not our problem.
> 
> 
> And the lastest is US managed to save her man from extradition to Bharat and also from death penalty.


Pakistan wants to interogate Headly its official. Y ? Dont ask me. He is not only US citizen . Guts A? The US never extradicts any convicted criminals to any country. And u think India was so afraid of asking his extradiction? Dude think again please.
He cut a deal to spill beans about pakistan and its connections. Well and Good for India if he talks more rather than die in Jail.
Moreover it adds to credibility if he confesse in third country court about Pakistan involvement in terrorism.(That to in US judiciary) We knew Extradiction is a long shot man. Still we r happy about the developments unlike U.
REGARDS


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## illuminatidinesh

Indian Arms a? I dont know Y u people r talking as if u recovered some INSAS rifile. Come with some solid evidence then we will discuss. Till then Stay in topic please.


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## MilesTogo

There are probably more Headley's in USA and UK waiting to strike...


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## karan.1970

illuminatidinesh said:


> Pakistan wants to interogate Headly its official. Y ? Dont ask me. He is not only US citizen . Guts A? The US never extradicts any convicted criminals to any country. And u think India was so afraid of asking his extradiction? Dude think again please.
> He cut a deal to spill beans about pakistan and its connections. Well and Good for India if he talks more rather than die in Jail.
> Moreover it adds to credibility if he confesse in third country court about Pakistan involvement in terrorism.(That to in US judiciary) We knew Extradiction is a long shot man. Still we r happy about the developments unlike U.
> REGARDS



And on a more selfish note, till the time he is in the USA, atleast ISI will not attempt to get another Indian plane hijacked to get him released

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## MilesTogo

karan.1970 said:


> And on a more selfish note, till the time he is in the USA, atleast ISI will not attempt to get another Indian plane hijacked to get him released



That was funny.


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## illuminatidinesh

The point is how helpful his information is going to be..... That Quote seems funny but things do happen in a funny way..


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## illuminatidinesh

> And on a more selfish note, till the time he is in the USA, atleast ISI will not attempt to get another Indian plane hijacked to get him released


U r so selfish sir.............. Just kidding


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## usama18

But Media Like Geo Reached the Home of Ajmal Kasaab House located in Pakistan.
Takmeel-e-Pakistan Ideology of Pakistan and Its Takmeel.


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## Justin Joseph

*Pakistan in denial: Endless wait for 54 POW families*

MUMBAI: The thought that her husband might be alive languishing in some jail in Pakistan still gives Manju Malkhani sleepless nights. The Colaba resident hopes a miracle might happen and her husband, Flight Lieutenant K L Malkhani, may return home finally.

Malkhani was a fighter pilot with the Indian Air force and part of the first air strike during the 1971 India-Pakistan war. His first sortie on December 3 in 1971 did the maximum damage in Pathankot area and destroyed the communication installations, recalls Manju. Malkhani did a second sortie but never returned. The search team could never find any remains of the aircraft, which probably means the plane did not crash, Manju says.

Manju is not alone. There are 54 such families of defence personnel across the country who still believe their near and dear ones to be in the custody of Pakistan. Data from the defence ministry show that a majority of these persons have been missing for 40 years now. An RTI activist who filed a query on this issue said the families should get some confirmation whether they are alive or not so that they get on with their lives as the uncertainty is more tragic. Punjab and Haryana top the list with 10 officers gone missing and believed to be in Pakistans custody. Delhi comes second with nine officers missing, followed by Maharashtra with four officers missing. Out of the 54 missing defence personnel, 24 are from the army.

A senior defence ministry official said during the visit of the external affairs minister in January 2007, the Pakistan government was persuaded to receive a delegation of people whose close relatives were missing in action. The delegation of 14 relatives even went to 10 jails in Pakistan. But they could not conclusively confirm any physical presence of the missing officers from the defence services, said the official. He added the Pakistan government has consistently denied the presence of any Indian prisoner of war in its jails. But we will continue to exert pressure, the official said.

Ansar Burney, who has been fighting the case of alleged Indian spy Sarabjit Singh said he has been working on this for almost 20 years. I found so many prisoners of war in mental asylums, even the Pakistani paper Dawn had reported it then. The problem is that both sides hide their prisoners of war. There was the case of Kashmir Singh who was found after many years and his name then was Ibrahim. I would want the Pakistan authorities to search for them and share the information with the Indian government. Nasir Aslam Zahid, a former judge of Pakistan, has been working to secure release of prisoners on both sides of the border from 2004. I visit jails every day and with experience I can tell you there is no Indian prisoner of 65 and 71 on jail records of Pakistan, he said, adding, there was a joint committee of eight judges from both sides of the border which was abandoned after 26/11. 

Pakistan in denial: Endless wait for 54 POW families - India - The Times of India


this is ridicules and inhuman. when we have released their more then 90,000 prisoners why are they doing this things just to calm their ego.


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## T-Faz

Justin Joseph said:


> *Pakistan in denial: Endless wait for 54 POW families*
> 
> MUMBAI: The thought that her husband might be alive languishing in some jail in Pakistan still gives Manju Malkhani sleepless nights. The Colaba resident hopes a miracle might happen and her husband, Flight Lieutenant K L Malkhani, may return home finally.
> 
> Malkhani was a fighter pilot with the Indian Air force and part of the first air strike during the 1971 India-Pakistan war. His first sortie on December 3 in 1971 did the maximum damage in Pathankot area and destroyed the communication installations, recalls Manju. Malkhani did a second sortie but never returned. The search team could never find any remains of the aircraft, which probably means the plane did not crash, Manju says.
> 
> Manju is not alone. There are 54 such families of defence personnel across the country who still believe their near and dear ones to be in the custody of Pakistan. Data from the defence ministry show that a majority of these persons have been missing for 40 years now. An RTI activist who filed a query on this issue said the families should get some confirmation whether they are alive or not so that they get on with their lives as the uncertainty is more tragic. Punjab and Haryana top the list with 10 officers gone missing and believed to be in Pakistans custody. Delhi comes second with nine officers missing, followed by Maharashtra with four officers missing. Out of the 54 missing defence personnel, 24 are from the army.
> 
> A senior defence ministry official said during the visit of the external affairs minister in January 2007, the Pakistan government was persuaded to receive a delegation of people whose close relatives were missing in action. The delegation of 14 relatives even went to 10 jails in Pakistan. But they could not conclusively confirm any physical presence of the missing officers from the defence services, said the official. He added the Pakistan government has consistently denied the presence of any Indian prisoner of war in its jails. But we will continue to exert pressure, the official said.
> 
> Ansar Burney, who has been fighting the case of alleged Indian spy Sarabjit Singh said he has been working on this for almost 20 years. I found so many prisoners of war in mental asylums, even the Pakistani paper Dawn had reported it then. The problem is that both sides hide their prisoners of war. There was the case of Kashmir Singh who was found after many years and his name then was Ibrahim. I would want the Pakistan authorities to search for them and share the information with the Indian government. *Nasir Aslam Zahid, a former judge of Pakistan, has been working to secure release of prisoners on both sides of the border from 2004. I visit jails every day and with experience I can tell you there is no Indian prisoner of 65 and 71 on jail records of Pakistan, he said, adding, there was a joint committee of eight judges from both sides of the border which was abandoned after 26/11. *
> 
> Pakistan in denial: Endless wait for 54 POW families - India - The Times of India
> 
> 
> this is ridicules and inhuman. when we have released their more then 90,000 prisoners why are they doing this things just to calm their ego.



Did you even read the article, both countries had many POW who were exchanged and after such a long time these 54 personnel would not be still in prison especially keeping in mind that it has been 40 odd years since 1971.

Read the highlighted part.


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## Justin Joseph

*Why the title of the thread is changed???????*

censorship???


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## ejaz007

*Pakistan hands six dossiers to India over Mumbai attacks*

** FO spokesman says Islamabad has asked India to hand over Kasab, Fahim to complete its own trial 
* Kasab extradition not extradition per se but legal requirement *

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Sunday handed over to India six dossiers on its own investigation into the Mumbai attacks, with a request that India hand over Ajmal Kasab and an Indian national, Fahim Ansari so that their testimonies could be recorded in Pakistan. 

Top Foreign Office officials handed over the dossiers to the Indian deputy high commissioner, APP reported. 

The government asked India to hand over the lone surviving gunman of the 2008 Mumbai attacks so that it could complete its own trial of seven suspects linked to the assault, officials said.

We have sought Indias help that he (Ajmal Kasab) should be handed over to us so that the trial here can go forward, Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit told AFP.

Islamabad is holding seven suspects linked to the November 26 to 29 attack on Indias financial capital, including alleged mastermind of the operation, Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, and Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LT) operative Zarar Shah.

India and Washington have both blamed the Mumbai attack on the LT.

An anti-terrorism court in Rawalpindi indicted the seven men on the eve of the first anniversary of the attack.

Since the indictment, officials have implied that the seven suspects trial cannot proceed unless Kasab, who was convicted in Mumbai last month after a year-long trial, is handed over as a witness.

Extradition: When asked how India could extradite Kasab and Ansari to Pakistan, Basit replied, It is not extradition per se. It is a legal requirement since the court has asked that Kasab be produced before it.

Interior Minister Rehman Malik has also said that Kasab is required to appear in Rawalpindi.

Kasabs statement is of paramount importance in the Mumbai attack case, which is an important document and our courts need it, APP quoted him as telling reporters late on Saturday.

Malik said India would also be requested to send to Rawalpindi the officials who recorded Kasabs statement in Mumbai. agencies

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## pkd

*Mumbai attacks: Verdict on Kasab to be delivered shortly*

Judge M L Tahaliyani will pronounce a verdict in the biggest terror trial the city has witnessed in recent times in a short while from now. In the box will be Ajmal Amir Kasab, the Pakistani gunman charged with the deaths of 166 Indians and foreigners. Along with him, his two Indian co-accused -- Faheem Ansari and Sabauddin Shaikh -- will also know their fate. 

The prosecution has gathered a heap of evidence against Kasab and presented strong arguments that are capable of sending him to the gallows. Special prosecutor Ujjwal Nikam has charged Kasab with not just the criminal acts of killing and injuring scores of innocent people, but has termed him guilty of the entire conspiracy that went into planning and executing the dastardly attack. 

Nikam has argued that Kasab is a highly trained and motivated member of the Pakistani terror outfit Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) who underwent months of training in weapons and intelligence so he could execute the well-planned attack on Mumbai. Nikam has also relied on scores of witness testimonies in a bid to establish Kasab's role in the killing of innocents at CST and Cama Hospital, the gunning down of senior policemen in Badruddin Tyabji Lane and the final gunbattle at Marine Drive. 

The prosecution's main argument has been that Kasab is a cold-blooded killer whose guilt has been established both through human accounts of the night of November 26, 2008, as well as forensic evidence in the form of DNA reports. 

The case against Ansari and Shaikh revolves around Kasab's confession to magistrate R V Sawant Waghule in February 2009. Kasab had said that the duo supplied maps of Mumbai to LeT bosses. Thus, they gave logistical support to carry out the attack. 

In his defence, Kasab has maintained that he was an innocent Pakistani who was picked up several days prior to the attack. He has insisted that the terrorist caught on CCTV is not him but a lookalike. He also rubbished all witness testimonies as tutored and given at the behest of police officials. 

Both Ansari and Shaikh have denied all wrongdoing. Their main argument is why would the LeT rely upon crude maps allegedly supplied by them when far more sophisticated versions were easily available on the internet. After the arrest of American David Coleman Headley, they also argued that recce work for the attack was done by him and they had been framed needlessly in the case. 

In September 2006, after 13 years of arguments, the Tada court had begun giving its verdicts in the 1993 serial blasts case. It was the last major trial in recent times.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Verdict-on-Kasab-to-be-pronounced-shortly/articleshow/5885540.cms


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## WAQAS119

No matter he is innocent or not, he will get verdict of death.. Because in past too Indian courts has given such verdict by saying that even they found accused innocent but due to public opinion they have to give such verdict. And public opinion maker is media, and everyone knows how they behaved.

Thus public opinion matters in courts decision making especially in such kind of cases. This time they may not accept his innocence too.


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## notsuperstitious

WAQAS119 said:


> No matter he is innocent or not, he will get verdict of death.. Because in past too Indian courts has given such verdict by saying that even they found accused innocent but due to public opinion they have to give such verdict. And public opinion maker is media, and everyone knows how they behaved.
> 
> Thus public opinion matters in courts decision making especially in such kind of cases. This time they may not accept his innocence too.



Whats your point?


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## afriend

WAQAS119 said:


> No matter he is innocent or not, he will get verdict of death.. Because in past too Indian courts has given such verdict by saying that even they found accused innocent but due to public opinion they have to give such verdict. And public opinion maker is media, and everyone knows how they behaved.
> 
> Thus public opinion matters in courts decision making especially in such kind of cases. This time they may not accept his innocence too.



I would have to politely disagree with you here..!!! All evidence including photographic..videos... and witness are against him..!! It would be your ignorance if you say all these are not good enough evidence.. and mr ajmal kasab can be innocent..!!! Please don't try to accuse indian judiciary for giving him a fair trial.

In past too.. there was a very famous case called nithari killings.. where more than a dozen kids where killed and their skeltons and bones hwere recovered from Mr. Kholi the owner of the hosue... CBI and the other investigations agencies had made it clear that they didnt have any evidence against him..!! Still the lower court sentenced hiim to death.. due to the overwhelming public opinion and -ve perception against him.. But then again.. the higher court just set him free citing the lack of evidence..!!!

So i would say indian judiciary is independent and strong enough just as the democractic system in india...!!!


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## WAQAS119

afriend said:


> I would have to politely disagree with you here..!!! *All evidence including photographic..videos... and witness are against him..!!* It would be your ignorance if you say all these are not good enough evidence.. and mr ajmal kasab can be innocent..!!! Please don't try to accuse indian judiciary for giving him a fair trial.
> 
> In past too.. there was a very famous case called nithari killings.. where more than a dozen kids where killed and their skeltons and bones hwere recovered from Mr. Kholi the owner of the hosue... CBI and the other investigations agencies had made it clear that they didnt have any evidence against him..!! Still the lower court sentenced hiim to death.. due to the overwhelming public opinion and -ve perception against him.. But then again.. the higher court just set him free citing the lack of evidence..!!!
> 
> So i would say indian judiciary is independent and strong enough just as the democractic system in india...!!!



Only according to your media.. What you watch on news channels becomes your point of view.. and don't be offended if i say that anti-Pakistanism sells in India and your media exploits it..
I am not accusing ur judiciary but what i said in my previous post is a documented past precident of Indian court.. I mean public opinion matters in such cases and judges considers it alot..


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## RajeHind

http://www.pro-pakistan.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/ajmal_kasab.jpg

according to some one he is not guilty.


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## afriend

WAQAS119 said:


> Only according to your media.. What you watch on news channels becomes your point of view.. and don't be offended if i say that anti
> Pakistanism sells in India and your media exploits it..
> I am not accusing ur judiciary but what i said in my previous post is a documented past precident of Indian court.. I mean public opinion matters in such cases and judges considers it alot..



I am citing a documented case for you..to counter your claim.. and i would like to get some case studies where in public opinion had come into picture..!!! 

And also.. if you say the testimony of the eye witness and vicitims are all false.. and the videographic evidence which clearly shows kasab killing are all an exploitation of india media.. i can only say this politely.. Get a life... pls..!!!!!


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## prodevelopment

WAQAS119 said:


> Only according to your media.. What you watch on news channels becomes your point of view.. and don't be offended if i say that anti-Pakistanism sells in India and your media exploits it..
> I am not accusing ur judiciary but what i said in my previous post is a documented past precident of Indian court.. I mean public opinion matters in such cases and judges considers it alot..


Whether anti-Pakistanism sells in India or not is irrelevant in this case. Even if the Indian Media has proof against Kasab, no credible international party has come out with proof in support of him. 
Even if the media is biased, the only thing that matters is that the proof presented in front of the court is overwhelmingly against Ajmal Kasab. 
IF/WHEN he is found guilty, the blame cannot be put on Indian media without first proving his innocence. The best thing that the media can be accused of is just that, bias.


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## blueoval79

*Pakistan Home Village Calls For Mumbai Suspect's Release*

FARIDKOT, Pakistan, May 3, 2010 (AFP) -* Residents of Faridkot, home to the alleged surviving gunman of the Mumbai massacre, deny any connection with their wayward son but believe India should release him in the interests of peace.*

The remote town in the Pakistani farming belt of Punjab province has earned notoriety as the home of Mohammed Ajmal Amir Kasab, accused of taking part in the 72-hour bloodbath in November 2008 that killed 166 people in Mumbai.

On Monday, as the 22-year-old Pakistani prepared to learn his fate in court, some people in Faridkot, about 26 kilometres (16 miles) from the Indian border, sat in groups watching TV waiting to hear the verdict, said an AFP reporter.

The day before the sentencing, a hawker distributed a weekly newspaper published by Jamaat-ud-Dawa, which Indian and US officials believe is a front for the Lashkar-e-Taiba militant group blamed for the Mumbai attacks.

With Faridkot's wheat harvest in full swing, workers loading grain into vehicles to a din of folk music said* they were sympathetic to Kasab's "good intentions" against an "enemy" country.*

Around 10,000 people live in the town. Most of the population are labourers and small farmers. Few are literate.

"Are they talking about our Ajmal?" 45-year-old Noor Ahmed asked, interrupting a discussion on how residents feel about the Indian sentencing.

"No. No. We don't know him," he said, sitting on a dirty cot in a small brick and clay room on the bank of Faridkot's canal.

*"But we have sympathies for him being Muslim."*

*Residents said they would denounce any sentence India hands down to Kasab.*

*"Look, don't blame him. There is nothing wrong if he did it with good intentions against an infidel country like India," said Amjad Ali, a 60-year-old farmer with white hair.*

*"India should forgive him and set him free to improve relations with Pakistan," he added.*

Bakhat Yar, 42, a farmer wearing a traditional grey shalwar khamis, said Kasab's father left the village years ago.

"We have never seen this boy in the village. Only his grandfather's haveli (house) is here," he said. "They have left this place, I guess."

Yar first said that Kasab should be found guilty and sentenced, then later retracted his remarks.

*"India should not give him the death sentence. After all, he is Muslim and if he did it against India, look what our neighbour India is doing.*

"India is doing bomb blasts in Pakistan and it has also blocked Pakistan's water," he said -- echoing the beliefs of many in Pakistan that its arch-rival is behind suicide attacks in the country and siphoning off its water resources.

One student claimed Kasab was a childhood friend who was in a group that used to swim in Faridkot's polluted canal and liked to throw other boys into the water. He believes Kasab was brainwashed.

"Definitely, the (Mumbai) incident created a bad impression for Pakistan and especially Faridkot. We haven't earned a good name," the student said.

He called on the massacre's masterminds to be punished, and said it would be better if India extradited Kasab to Pakistan.

Pakistan home village calls for Mumbai suspect's release


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## RobbieS

WAQAS119 said:


> No matter he is innocent or not, he will get verdict of death.. Because in past too Indian courts has given such verdict by saying that even they found accused innocent but due to public opinion they have to give such verdict. And public opinion maker is media, and everyone knows how they behaved.
> 
> Thus public opinion matters in courts decision making especially in such kind of cases. This time they may not accept his innocence too.



Its one thing trying to mold public opinion and quite other to refute TV footage and the fact that Kasab was captured alive by the police. Otherwise it wouldn't have taken the courts 18 months to announce the verdict.

And can you please enlighten us by sharing the past incidents where Indian courts sentenced terrorists to death under public opinion?

Just think about the fact that you are trying to defend a terrorist!


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## KS

afriend said:


> I am citing a documented case for you..to counter your claim.. and i would like to get some case studies where in public opinion had come into picture..!!!
> 
> And also.. if you say the testimony of the eye witness and vicitims are all false.. and the videographic evidence which clearly shows kasab killing are all an exploitation of india media.. i can only say this politely.. Get a life... pls..!!!!!



Bro...dont u know..Ajmal Kasab is Amar Singh and the whole Mumbai episode is just another RAW-CIA-MOSSAD conspiracy..

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## WAQAS119

afriend said:


> I am citing a documented case for you..to counter your claim.. and i would like to get some case studies where in public opinion had come into picture..!!!
> 
> And also.. if you say the testimony of the eye witness and vicitims are all false.. and the videographic evidence which clearly shows kasab killing are all an exploitation of india media.. i can only say this politely.. Get a life... pls..!!!!!



I am not defending Kasab, he may be guilty or may be not, GOD knows better.... I was only arguing about this case's result.

For case study for requested, i have no link for you but I am a chartered accountancy student and we do study law thus i have that knowledge....

As far as evidence is concern, you knows better what is not possible now a days, specially by a Intelligence agency with billion of dollar budget.

BTW if Kasab is guilty he must be hanged till death.


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## ARCHON

WAQAS119 said:


> I am not defending Kasab, he may be guilty or may be not, GOD knows better.... I was only arguing about this case's result.
> 
> For case study for requested, i have no link for you but I am a chartered accountancy student and we do study law thus i have that knowledge....
> 
> As far as evidence is concern, you knows better what is not possible now a days, specially by a Intelligence agency with billion of dollar budget.
> 
> BTW if Kasab is guilty he must be hanged till death.



I am strictly against capital punishment, but its my view.

We have no right to take the life of another person if he has committed a murder. If we do we are also a murderer.
Human life is god given. we have no right to take it.


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## ARCHON

Punishments are supposed to prevent people from committing the mistake again. Jihadis believe when they do the *service* they go straight to heaven. Denial of capital punishment by not killing them is the best punishment they can be given.


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## Jazzbot

India is really good in this kind of scandals and backdoor controversies. The Mombay attacks was Indian Seed and surely, Indian is enjoying the fruits..


PS: hang this bastard..


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## WAQAS119

birdofprey said:


> I am strictly against capital punishment, but its my view.
> 
> We have no right to take the life of another person if he has committed a murder. If we do we are also a murderer.
> Human life is god given. we have no right to take it.



But capital punishment prevents birth of another bloody minded person because of fear of death.
It becomes a lesson for others. Thus good for future.


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## KS

jazzy_superior said:


> India is really good in this kind of scandals and backdoor controversies. The Mombay attacks was Indian Seed and surely, Indian is enjoying the fruits..
> 
> 
> PS: hang this bastard..



Can i say that the bombings in Lahore,Karachi and in the rest of Pakistan are Pakistan's Seeds and not hurt Pakistanis feelings..??

While typing it sis better to think if it may hurt others feelings nd then procedd rather than jumping on ur keyboard.


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## courageneverdies

Well, before hanging, I think Indian administration will be thinking about sending Ajmal to Pakistan for trial here as well. A formal request has already been sent to India and it appears that India might be able to transfer him to Pakistan. 

It has to be kept in mind that there does not exist any treaty of Extradition between Pakistan and India, but Pakistani courts for trial of Ajmal may need him in person. 

Whatever the end of this case be in India, I wish may the justice be done to the innocent who lost their lives in this terrorist activity.

We Pakistanis have no sympathy to Ajmal Qasab, if he is the terrorist. He be hanged.

KIT Over

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## ARCHON

jazzy_superior said:


> India is really good in this kind of scandals and backdoor controversies. The Mombay attacks was Indian Seed and surely, Indian is enjoying the fruits..
> 
> 
> PS: hang this bastard..



166 people were *dead*, the loss is *for their* kins and families, this incident became a shame for Indian intelligence, tourists were killed and tourism *was affected*, buildings were *damaged* including a famous 5 star hotel, India became a dangerous place to visit in *front* of international community ....


And *still* people believe it was Indian seed and India is enjoying its fruits.

Brother, Pakistan *has not lost* anything because of this. The losses *are for* the people who were victims of this act and for their relatives and the country in general.

Thank *you* for sharing your views.

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## WAQAS119

Who says evidence in such a huge case cannot be fabricated?

Remember Colin Powell, the foreign minister of the world&#8217;s lone superpower, sitting in the U.N. Security Council one fine evening in February 2003, showing fake and doctored pictures and other evidence to prove Iraq&#8217;s WMDs?

It all turned out to be bogus. Yet U.S. led a major war against Iraq and changed the course of history based on those lies.

Now India wants action replay

i mean read this out,,,

*Indian Woman claims being mother of Ajmal Kasab *

I am not claiming it to be true but worth thinking.


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## ARCHON

WAQAS119 said:


> But capital punishment prevents birth of another bloody minded person because of fear of death.
> It becomes a lesson for others. Thus good for future.



People are brainwashed in a *state of martyrdom* if they die killing people. 

Killing them is actually a *service* for them.

They *should be* given rigorous life imprisonment and they have to get on with the life *knowing* the act he has done has landed in that.

I bet many *would agree to death* rather than spend rest of their life in jail. *Why give* them the pleasure of that.


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## prodevelopment

Against popular opinion here, I really do NOT think that Ajmal Kasab should be hanged.

IMHO, he was just a pawn in a larger game. He is foot soldier, a pawn. Hanging him will do no good to India. In fact, it'll just take away our human touch. 

He should be given a very long imprisonment though.

---------- Post added at 02:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:29 PM ----------

Against popular opinion here, I really do NOT think that Ajmal Kasab should be hanged.

IMHO, he was just a pawn in a larger game. He is foot soldier, a pawn. Hanging him will do no good to India. In fact, it'll just take away our human touch. 

He should be given a very long imprisonment though.


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## ARCHON

WAQAS119 said:


> Who says evidence in such a huge case cannot be fabricated?
> 
> Now India wants action replay



India wants action reply so that ...... ?????

would you care why India wants an action replay by killing its people, tarnish its image globally, causing its own people getting angry against the government.

Why should India do it??

*Your views please*.


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## Jazzbot

birdofprey said:


> 166 people were *dead*, the loss is *for their* kins and families, this incident became a shame for Indian intelligence, tourists were killed and tourism *was affected*, buildings were *damaged* including a famous 5 star hotel, India became a dangerous place to visit in *front* of international community ....
> 
> 
> And *still* people believe it was Indian seed and India is enjoying its fruits.
> 
> Brother, Pakistan *has not lost* anything because of this. The losses *are for* the people who were victims of this act and for their relatives and the country in general.
> 
> Thank *you* for sharing your views.




we saw much more of these killings in hydrabad / gujrat. and Indian Govt was involved in it. there are hell lots of other examples are available from recent past where indian govt killed its own ppl for the sack of their own objectives, so who knows the internal story..

Do you guyz really believe that entire Indian Intelligence and Forces are too dump and sleeping that few kids came with heavy weaponry in day light and killed lots of ppl in heart of india with such an ease.. 
Don't tell me lol.

Also there are lots of similar questions in this whole story, which i think will remain as question mark..


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## WAQAS119

birdofprey said:


> India wants action reply so that ...... ?????
> 
> would you care why India wants an action replay by killing its people, tarnish its image globally, causing its own people getting angry against the government.
> 
> Why should India do it??
> 
> *Your views please*.



i mean you all know why.... If I answer your question this thread will become a war zone and i don't want to fight now...

Its not too difficult o understand.


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## scrumpy

Just coming in...

Ajmal Kasab has been convicted on all charges and was directly found to be responsible for 7 deaths.

The other 2 have been acquitted because of insufficient evidence.


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## ARCHON

WAQAS119 said:


> i mean you all know why.... If I answer your question this thread will become a war zone and i don't want to fight now...
> 
> Its not too difficult o understand.



Nope we don't know why??

If your answer is India's sole objective is to tarnish the image of Pakistan globally, its pointless.

US is in the region not because of India, Pakistan is having a war against terror not because of India.

9/11,London bombings , Taliban etc etc have already done the damage.

India don't need a made up case to tarnish the already tainted image of Pakistan.


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## Bang Galore

WAQAS119 said:


> *No matter he is innocent or not, he will get verdict of death..* *Because in past too Indian courts has given such verdict by saying that even they found accused innocent but due to public opinion they have to give such verdict*. And public opinion maker is media, and everyone knows how they behaved.
> 
> Thus public opinion matters in courts decision making especially in such kind of cases. This time they may not accept his innocence too.



Really?? I would like you to cite one example. His innocence is accepted by no one except for some deranged conspiracy theorists. If you want to support him, do so openly and if you feel like, explain why! Don't try and hide behind a smoke screen of how Indian courts do this or that.



> courageneverdies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, before hanging, I think Indian administration will be thinking about sending Ajmal to Pakistan for trial here as well. A formal request has already been sent to India and it appears that India might be able to transfer him to Pakistan.
> 
> It has to be kept in mind that there does not exist any treaty of Extradition between Pakistan and India, but Pakistani courts for trial of Ajmal may need him in person.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give us access to Hafeez Saeed and we will give you access to Kasab.
> 
> BTW I'm glad to see that you have no sympathy for Kasab. No need for the qualification though. *He is a terrorist* and one who participated in a particularly brutal massacre.
Click to expand...

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## Prometheus

WAQAS119 said:


> Who says evidence in such a huge case cannot be fabricated?
> 
> Remember Colin Powell, the foreign minister of the worlds lone superpower, sitting in the U.N. Security Council one fine evening in February 2003, showing fake and doctored pictures and other evidence to prove Iraqs WMDs?
> 
> It all turned out to be bogus. Yet U.S. led a major war against Iraq and changed the course of history based on those lies.
> 
> Now India wants action replay
> 
> i mean read this out,,,
> 
> *Indian Woman claims being mother of Ajmal Kasab *
> 
> I am not claiming it to be true but worth thinking.




total number of witnesses appeared in court= 653
Foreign investigations teams appeared in court= FBI 
CCTV footage of CST station submitted to court.


deny them and you are god


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## ejaz007

*Indian court convicts Ajmal Kasab *
Updated at: 1415 PST, Monday, May 03, 2010


NEW DELHI: A special court has held Ajmal Kasab - the lone surviving terrorist from the 26/11 Mumbai attacks - guilty of murder and of waging war against the nation. *However, shockingly the Indian duo  Faheem Ansari and Sabauddin Ahmed were acquitted of every single charge.*

The verdict came 17 months after Kasab and nine other terrorists from Pakistan unleashed death and destruction on the country's financial capital on November 26, 2008. 

The 26/11 trial, perhaps the fastest in a terror case in India, had commenced on May 8, 2009, in a special court set up at Arthur Road Jail. During the trial, 3,192 pages of evidence were recorded. There were 658 witnesses and 296 of them were examined in court on 271 working days. Another 357 witnesses were examined via affidavit. 

There were five court's witnesses. The trial lasted 369 days. 

Thirty witnesses in the court of judge M L Tahaliyani identified Kasab as the man who had opened fire at them.

The prosecution, led by Ujjwal Nikam, submitted 1,015 articles seized during investigations and filed 1,691 documents to support its case. The prosecution had also argued that Pakistan's security apparatus was used by LeT in the attacks. 

For the first time in Indian legal history, FBI officials deposed to give technical evidence that the killers came from Pakistan using a Global Positioning System and that they made calls from their mobile phones through Voice Over Internet Protocol (VOIP) to stay in touch with their handlers across the border.

Prosecution also tabled CCTV footage of the terrorists moving about with guns and firing at people. The images were captured on CCTV cameras fitted at CST railway station, the Times of India building, and the Taj Mahal and Oberoi hotels.

Photographs of Kasab shot by photojournalists Sebastian D'Souza and Sriram Vernekar were also placed before the court. However, Kasab took the plea that these were morphed and that he was not the one shown in the stills.

Kasab is being held at a specially-made bullet and bomb-proof cell in the high-security Arthur Road central prison. He was brought every day to the court in the jail premises escorted by 10 to 12 guards. Since the trial began, 200 troops of Indo-Tibetan Border Police guarded him round-the-clock.

Kasab was captured alive on the first day of the attacks, and he confessed to his crime before a Magistrate in February last year spilling the beans about the conspiracy hatched in Pakistan and how they struck terror at various places in Mumbai, only to retract it as soon as the trial commenced.

Midway through the trial, Kasab took a U-turn, admitting partly his earlier confession, but diluting his role in the attacks and passing almost the entire blame on his accomplice Abu Ismael. Finally, at the end of the trial, he disowned all earlier versions and claimed innocence.

Seeking to obstruct the trial in the initial stages, Kasab claimed he was juvenile but the court rejected his plea after scientific evidence proved otherwise. The 11,000-page chargesheet filed on February 25, 2008 put his age at 21. By the end of the trial it was a 12,850-page chargesheet.

Kasab was represented by three lawyers. The first, Anjali Waghmare was removed on technical grounds even before the trial began as the court learnt that she had also appeared for a witness in the same case. Abbas Kazmi, who replaced her, was removed mid-way for not cooperating with the court.

K P Pawar, who then defended Kasab, continued till the end and pleaded that his client was innocent and was picked up by the police from Chowpatty a few days before the 26/11 attacks.

According to prosecution, Kasab and his accomplices were given commando and intelligence training at a camp in Muridke in Pakistan by LeT chief Hafeez Sayeed and chief of operations Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi.

The chargesheet alleged that the attackers sailed from Karachi in the "Al-Hussaini" a boat which they abandoned near Porbunder, where they hijacked an Indian fishing trawler 'Kuber' to reach Mumbai.

On board Kuber, they murdered navigator Amarsingh Solanki and four sailors. Solanki's body was found in his cabin while those of others were dumped into the sea. 
The prosecution produced DNA reports of Kasab to show that they matched with the articles found on the Kuber.

After abandoning the Kuber near the Mumbai Coast, the attackers reached the shores in a dinghy (rubber boat) carried by them from Pakistan. They disembarked at Badhwar Park and fanned out in different directions in five batches of two each to shoot and kill, the prosecution said.

It placed evidence to show that the Honda engine fitted on the dingy was of Japanese make and exported to Pakistan.

The 10 terrorists opened fire at Hotel Trident-Oberoi, Hotel Taj Mahal, Nariman House (a Jewish outreach centre), Chhatrapti Shivaji Terminus, Leopold Cafe, Cama Hospital and Metro Cinema Junction. They also planted bombs in two taxis which exploded killing people.

Hundreds were held hostage at Hotel Taj, the Oberoi and Nariman House where terrorists fought National Security Guards (NSG) and police for close to 60 hours before being killed.

The nine slain terrorists were identified as Abu Ismael, Abu Akasha, Abu Umar, Abdul Rehman Bada, Abu Umer, Abdul Rehman Chhota, Fahad Ullah, Javed Abu Ali and Abu Shoeb.

Kasab was captured at Girgaum Chowpatty following an encounter with the police after he and Abu Ismael had killed several people at CST, in and outside Cama Hospital, and Metro Junction.

The terrorist duo's victims included Maharashtra ATS chief Hemant Karkare, IPS officer Ashok Kamate and encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar. 

During the trial, the court issued non-bailable warrants against 27 absconding accused, 
including the LeT's Lakhvi and Hafeez Saeed. They have not been arrested although the warrants have been served to the Interpol.

Fake identity cards were recovered from all the terrorists who had concealed their Pakistani identity by posing as Indian students.

Besides this, articles of daily use with "Made in Pakistan" markings were found on the Kuber. 

Indian court convicts Ajmal Kasab


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## karan.1970

WAQAS119 said:


> Only according to your media.. What you watch on news channels becomes your point of view.. and don't be offended if i say that anti-Pakistanism sells in India and your media exploits it..
> I am not accusing ur judiciary but what i said in my previous post is a documented past precident of Indian court.. I mean public opinion matters in such cases and judges considers it alot..



And what is your point of view of Kasab's innocense based on?


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## harish

I don't know what the delay or confusion is all about. We have given him more than a fair chance. More than he offered any of his victims. Finish him off now without delay. The Kandahar hijacking has taught us that its the best to finish the deed quickly and remove the source of any temptation for future mischief. The Indian govt. should also make it a point to cremate such dead bodies in open view for the public, especially family of victims, as the US justice system allows. No right thinking Indian muslim or muslim anywhere else in the world, including Pakistan, should have a problem with that.


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## Prometheus

Mumbai: Seventeen months after the audacious attack on Mumbai that left 166 dead and thousands scarred for life, the 26/11 Special Court on Monday pronounced the lone captured Pakistani terrorist Ajmal Kasab guilty of waging war against India and manslaughter. 

The court found Kasab guilty on all 86 counts against him, including the murder of top cops Hemant Karkare, Ashok Kamte, Vijay Salaskar and Tukaram Ombale. 

The quantum of punishment would be announced tomorrow. 

Kasab, who was present in the court, listened very attentively to the judge but was calm and unemotional. 

However, the two Indian co-accused Fahim Ansari and Sabahuddin Ahmed who were charged for conspiracy in the terror attacks - preparing maps of the targeted locations and handing these to Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) operatives  were acquitted by the court. . 

Pronouncing the verdict, after examining as many as 653 witnesses and on the basis of a 675-page written submission, Special Judge ML Tahilyani accepted the prosecutions contention that Kasab was one among the 10 terrorists who came to Mumbai via sea from Karachi on November 26, 2008 and launched multiple attacks in Indias financial and entertainment nerve centre. 

The trial in the case started on April 15, 2009 and ended on March 31 this year. 

Kasab was found guilty under various sections of the Indian Penal Code, including waging war against the nation and Section 302  which attracts death sentence. He was also found guilty under the Explosives Act, Arms Act, Passport Act, Prevention of Damage to Public Properties Act, Customs Act, Explosive Substances Act, Bombay Police Act, Foreigners Act, Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act. 

Besides Special Public Prosecutor Ujjwal Nikam, defence lawyers, including Kasab's lawyer KP Pawar, Ansari's lawyer RB Mokashi, and Ahmeds lawyer Ejaz Naqvi were present in the packed court room when the verdict was delivered. 

In July last year, Kasab had confessed to his crimes. "Hang me, please," Kasab pleaded two days after he made a dramatic confession and gave a chilling blow-by-blow account of his part in the attacks. 

"I have committed the crimes on this earth and the people of the world should punish me. I don't want God's punishment. But, if somebody feels that I have confessed to escape the death penalty, the court can definitely hang me," Kasab begged. 

Kasab was lodged in a solitary 'anda' (oval) cell in the Arthur Road Central Jail. His cell was reinforced with layers of cement and steel capable of thwarting any major attacks or bomb blast. 

Kasab had come to Mumbai via the Arabian Sea route with nine other associates and targeted sites like the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, the Taj Mahal Palace and Tower Hotel, Hotel Oberoi-Trident, the Cama Hospital and the Chabad, a Jewish prayer centre at Nariman House, and the favourite haunt of foreigners, Leopold Café. 

All besides Kasab were killed during the 60-hour operation by combined security forces. The bodies of the terrorists were preserved in the morgue of Sir JJ Hospital, barely a kilometre from Kasabs abode in jail. 

The Maharashtra government quietly disposed of the bodies in January this year after the Muslim community refused to bury them on Indian soil. So far details of how and where the bodies were disposed of continue to elude the media

26/11: KASAB FOUND GUILTY, CO-ACCUSED ACQUITTED


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## notsuperstitious

blueoval79 said:


> *Pakistan Home Village Calls For Mumbai Suspect's Release*
> 
> FARIDKOT, Pakistan, May 3, 2010 (AFP) -* Residents of Faridkot, home to the alleged surviving gunman of the Mumbai massacre, deny any connection with their wayward son but believe India should release him in the interests of peace.*
> 
> The remote town in the Pakistani farming belt of Punjab province has earned notoriety as the home of Mohammed Ajmal Amir Kasab, accused of taking part in the 72-hour bloodbath in November 2008 that killed 166 people in Mumbai.
> 
> On Monday, as the 22-year-old Pakistani prepared to learn his fate in court, some people in Faridkot, about 26 kilometres (16 miles) from the Indian border, sat in groups watching TV waiting to hear the verdict, said an AFP reporter.
> 
> The day before the sentencing, a hawker distributed a weekly newspaper published by Jamaat-ud-Dawa, which Indian and US officials believe is a front for the Lashkar-e-Taiba militant group blamed for the Mumbai attacks.
> 
> With Faridkot's wheat harvest in full swing, workers loading grain into vehicles to a din of folk music said* they were sympathetic to Kasab's "good intentions" against an "enemy" country.*
> 
> Around 10,000 people live in the town. Most of the population are labourers and small farmers. Few are literate.
> 
> "Are they talking about our Ajmal?" 45-year-old Noor Ahmed asked, interrupting a discussion on how residents feel about the Indian sentencing.
> 
> "No. No. We don't know him," he said, sitting on a dirty cot in a small brick and clay room on the bank of Faridkot's canal.
> 
> *"But we have sympathies for him being Muslim."*
> 
> *Residents said they would denounce any sentence India hands down to Kasab.*
> 
> *"Look, don't blame him. There is nothing wrong if he did it with good intentions against an infidel country like India," said Amjad Ali, a 60-year-old farmer with white hair.*
> 
> *"India should forgive him and set him free to improve relations with Pakistan," he added.*
> 
> Bakhat Yar, 42, a farmer wearing a traditional grey shalwar khamis, said Kasab's father left the village years ago.
> 
> "We have never seen this boy in the village. Only his grandfather's haveli (house) is here," he said. "They have left this place, I guess."
> 
> Yar first said that Kasab should be found guilty and sentenced, then later retracted his remarks.
> 
> *"India should not give him the death sentence. After all, he is Muslim and if he did it against India, look what our neighbour India is doing.*
> 
> "India is doing bomb blasts in Pakistan and it has also blocked Pakistan's water," he said -- echoing the beliefs of many in Pakistan that its arch-rival is behind suicide attacks in the country and siphoning off its water resources.
> 
> One student claimed Kasab was a childhood friend who was in a group that used to swim in Faridkot's polluted canal and liked to throw other boys into the water. He believes Kasab was brainwashed.
> 
> "Definitely, the (Mumbai) incident created a bad impression for Pakistan and especially Faridkot. We haven't earned a good name," the student said.
> 
> He called on the massacre's masterminds to be punished, and said it would be better if India extradited Kasab to Pakistan.
> 
> Pakistan home village calls for Mumbai suspect's release



Such open support of terrorism is quite sick.

These are the same guys who were protesting for days after the attacks that Ajmal was not from their village.

Their idea of religion has reduced them to sub humans.

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## ARCHON

Those who supports terrorism has to acknowledge the same happening in their country too.


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## riju78

The lone surviving gunman from the Mumbai terror attacks has been found guilty of murder and waging war against India.


Mohammed Ajmal Kasab opened fire on commuters at the busy station
Mohammad Ajmal Kasab was one of ten Pakistani terrorists who killed 166 people in a three-day rampage through the city.
He was caught on camera strolling through Mumbai's main train station carrying an AK-47 rifle and a rucksack on his back.
He and an accomplice killed 58 people and wounded 104 others at the crowded station in November 2008.
The 22-year-old will be sentenced later today and faces the death penalty.
Kasab, who was wounded by police during the firefight, initially admitted his role in the violence and then said he had been tortured to extract a confession.
He was found guilty on almost all of the 86 charges against him.
The evidence against Kasab during the one-year trial in Mumbai included footage from security cameras at the train station and the testimony of more than 600 witnesses.
"You have been found guilty of waging war against India, and killing people at CST (train station), killing government officials and abetting the other nine terrorists," judge ML Tahaliyani told him.
"You got training in Pakistan. All of this has been proven against you."
Two Indians who had been accused of helping plot the attacks were cleared by the court.
The judge released them from custody and said there was "no quality or quantity of evidence" against them.
India blames a Pakistan-based militant group, Lashkar-e-Taiba, for the attack.

Mumbai Massacre Gunman Mohammad Ajmal Kasab Found Guilty Of Murder And Waging War Against India | World News | Sky News


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## riju78

*Mumbai gunman convicted by Indian court
*

BBC News - Mumbai gunman convicted by Indian court

A Pakistani national has been convicted over his role in the deadly Mumbai (Bombay) attacks by an Indian court.
Mohammad Ajmal Amir Qasab, 22, the sole surviving gunman, was found guilty on charges including murder, waging war on India and possessing explosives.
The attacks in November 2008 left 174 people - including nine gunmen - dead, and soured ties between India and neighbouring Pakistan.
India blames Pakistan-based militants Lashkar-e-Taiba for the attacks.
After initial denials, Pakistan acknowledged that the attacks had been partially planned on its territory and that Qasab was one of its citizens.



As the judge read out his verdict, Mohammad Ajmal Amir Qasab kept his head down. He did not say anything during the entire proceedings.
The courtroom was bristling with journalists. More than 100 reporters were present in the high-security facility, craning their necks to see how Qasab was reacting.
When the first indication came that Qasab was going to be found guilty, there was a gasp. There was an even bigger reaction when the judge acquitted the two Indians also charged alongside Qasab.
As he continued reading, people became restless and the judge had to exhort the room to keep calm. More comes tomorrow when the judge hears arguments about sentencing.

The prosecution is seeking the death penalty for Qasab.

Two Indian men - Fahim Ansari and Sabahuddin Ahmed - who were accused of helping the gunmen plan the attacks, were acquitted by the presiding judge at the court in Mumbai.

Qasab's 271-day trial was conducted amid tight security in a specially-made court on the jail premises in Mumbai where he was being held.
Over the past 14 months, the trial witnessed a number of twists and turns.

Qasab originally denied the charges against him but last July, in a dramatic outburst in court, he admitted his role and asked to be hanged. His plea was not accepted and the trial continued.
In November, the main lawyer representing Qasab - who was arrested on the first day of the attacks - was removed from the case after the judge said he was delaying proceedings.
Late last year, Pakistan charged seven people in connection with the attacks, including the suspected mastermind Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, who is alleged to head Lashkar-e-Taiba.


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## sarthak

Now expect them to hang Sarabjit Singh in a couple of months.


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## pkd

*Indian court convicts Ajmal Kasab*


NEW DELHI: A special court has held Ajmal Kasab - the lone surviving terrorist from the 26/11 Mumbai attacks - guilty of murder and of waging war against the nation. However, shockingly the Indian duo &#8211; Faheem Ansari and Sabauddin Ahmed were acquitted of every single charge.
The verdict came 17 months after Kasab and nine other terrorists from Pakistan unleashed death and destruction on the country's financial capital on November 26, 2008. 

The 26/11 trial, perhaps the fastest in a terror case in India, had commenced on May 8, 2009, in a special court set up at Arthur Road Jail. During the trial, 3,192 pages of evidence were recorded. There were 658 witnesses and 296 of them were examined in court on 271 working days. Another 357 witnesses were examined via affidavit. There were five court's witnesses. The trial lasted 369 days. 

Thirty witnesses in the court of judge M L Tahaliyani identified Kasab as the man who had opened fire at them.

The prosecution, led by Ujjwal Nikam, submitted 1,015 articles seized during investigations and filed 1,691 documents to support its case. The prosecution had also argued that Pakistan's security apparatus was used by LeT in the attacks. 

For the first time in Indian legal history, FBI officials deposed to give technical evidence that the killers came from Pakistan using a Global Positioning System and that they made calls from their mobile phones through Voice Over Internet Protocol (VOIP) to stay in touch with their handlers across the border.

Prosecution also tabled CCTV footage of the terrorists moving about with guns and firing at people. The images were captured on CCTV cameras fitted at CST railway station, the Times of India building, and the Taj Mahal and Oberoi hotels.

Photographs of Kasab shot by photojournalists Sebastian D'Souza and Sriram Vernekar were also placed before the court. However, Kasab took the plea that these were morphed and that he was not the one shown in the stills.

Kasab is being held at a specially-made bullet and bomb-proof cell in the high-security Arthur Road central prison. He was brought every day to the court in the jail premises escorted by 10 to 12 guards. Since the trial began, 200 troops of Indo-Tibetan Border Police guarded him round-the-clock.

Kasab was captured alive on the first day of the attacks, and he confessed to his crime before a Magistrate in February last year spilling the beans about the conspiracy hatched in Pakistan and how they struck terror at various places in Mumbai, only to retract it as soon as the trial commenced.

Midway through the trial, Kasab took a U-turn, admitting partly his earlier confession, but diluting his role in the attacks and passing almost the entire blame on his accomplice Abu Ismael. Finally, at the end of the trial, he disowned all earlier versions and claimed innocence.

Seeking to obstruct the trial in the initial stages, Kasab claimed he was juvenile but the court rejected his plea after scientific evidence proved otherwise. The 11,000-page chargesheet filed on February 25, 2008 put his age at 21. By the end of the trial it was a 12,850-page chargesheet.

Kasab was represented by three lawyers. The first, Anjali Waghmare was removed on technical grounds even before the trial began as the court learnt that she had also appeared for a witness in the same case. Abbas Kazmi, who replaced her, was removed mid-way for not cooperating with the court.

K P Pawar, who then defended Kasab, continued till the end and pleaded that his client was innocent and was picked up by the police from Chowpatty a few days before the 26/11 attacks.

According to prosecution, Kasab and his accomplices were given commando and intelligence training at a camp in Muridke in Pakistan by LeT chief Hafeez Sayeed and chief of operations Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi.

The chargesheet alleged that the attackers sailed from Karachi in the "Al-Hussaini" a boat which they abandoned near Porbunder, where they hijacked an Indian fishing trawler 'Kuber' to reach Mumbai.

On board Kuber, they murdered navigator Amarsingh Solanki and four sailors. Solanki's body was found in his cabin while those of others were dumped into the sea. 
The prosecution produced DNA reports of Kasab to show that they matched with the articles found on the Kuber.

After abandoning the Kuber near the Mumbai Coast, the attackers reached the shores in a dinghy (rubber boat) carried by them from Pakistan. They disembarked at Badhwar Park and fanned out in different directions in five batches of two each to shoot and kill, the prosecution said.

It placed evidence to show that the Honda engine fitted on the dingy was of Japanese make and exported to Pakistan.

The 10 terrorists opened fire at Hotel Trident-Oberoi, Hotel Taj Mahal, Nariman House (a Jewish outreach centre), Chhatrapti Shivaji Terminus, Leopold Cafe, Cama Hospital and Metro Cinema Junction. They also planted bombs in two taxis which exploded killing people.

Hundreds were held hostage at Hotel Taj, the Oberoi and Nariman House where terrorists fought National Security Guards (NSG) and police for close to 60 hours before being killed.

The nine slain terrorists were identified as Abu Ismael, Abu Akasha, Abu Umar, Abdul Rehman Bada, Abu Umer, Abdul Rehman Chhota, Fahad Ullah, Javed Abu Ali and Abu Shoeb.

Kasab was captured at Girgaum Chowpatty following an encounter with the police after he and Abu Ismael had killed several people at CST, in and outside Cama Hospital, and Metro Junction.

The terrorist duo's victims included Maharashtra ATS chief Hemant Karkare, IPS officer Ashok Kamate and encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar. 

During the trial, the court issued non-bailable warrants against 27 absconding accused, 
including the LeT's Lakhvi and Hafeez Saeed. They have not been arrested although the warrants have been served to the Interpol.

Fake identity cards were recovered from all the terrorists who had concealed their Pakistani identity by posing as Indian students.

Besides this, articles of daily use with "Made in Pakistan" markings were found on the Kuber.

http://thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=104086


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## WAQAS119

birdofprey said:


> Those who supports terrorism has to acknowledge the same happening in their country too.



yeap, so true.....supporters of terrorists on western borders of Pakistan have to acknowledge naxalties, moists, communists, Kashmiri freedom fighters and list goes on. so so true.


hooosh, there are over hundred terrorist organization in India, 'as you sow so shall u reap' so true.

*India - Terrorist, insurgent and extremist groups *


I didn't wanted to be harsh but few people don't let you stay like that.


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## blueoval79

WAQAS119 said:


> yeap, so true.....supporters of terrorists on western borders of Pakistan have to acknowledge naxalties, moists, communists, Kashmiri freedom fighters and list goes on. so so true.


Naxalites, Maoists and Communists are 3 names of a single movement...please don't confuse.....

And Kashmiri FF(Terrorists)....what to say...keep on sending them...we will keep on killing them.....



> hooosh, there are over hundred terrorist organization in India, 'as you sow so shall u reap' so true.I didn't wanted to be harsh but few people don't let you stay like that.



Hundred....hmm.... I would say...more than 1000 but most of them are dead and burried...like Khalistan Mocement for example...


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## WAQAS119

blueoval79 said:


> Naxalites, Maoists and Communists are 3 names of a single movement...please don't confuse.....
> 
> And Kashmiri FF(Terrorists)....what to say...keep on sending them...we will keep on killing them.....
> 
> 
> 
> Hundred....hmm.... I would say...more than 1000 but most of them are dead and burried...like Khalistan Mocement for example...



i mean active terrorist organization,,,,,


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## blueoval79

WAQAS119 said:


> i mean active terrorist organization,,,,,



Please name a few...and dont put organizations that want a seperate state like Jharkhand.....Telangana..... inside India in the list...they just want a seperate Administrative entity inside India.....

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## notsuperstitious

WAQAS119 said:


> i mean active terrorist organization,,,,,



We may have a thousand, but doesn't mean we want pakistani ones coming to our land and kill innocent people.

And there are indeed those in pakistan who condone such acts in the name of religion. What supreme insult to the name of religion.


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## riju78

WAQAS119 said:


> yeap, so true.....supporters of terrorists on western borders of Pakistan have to acknowledge naxalties, moists, communists, Kashmiri freedom fighters and list goes on. so so true.
> 
> 
> hooosh, there are over hundred terrorist organization in India, 'as you sow so shall u reap' so true.
> 
> *India - Terrorist, insurgent and extremist groups *
> 
> 
> I didn't wanted to be harsh but few people don't let you stay like that.




very interesting list there from the site...


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## riju78

blueoval79 said:


> Please name a few...and dont put organizations that want a seperate state like Jharkhand.....Telangana..... inside India in the list...they just want a seperate Administrative entity inside India.....



second that..please name a few active organisations...


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## WAQAS119

fateh71 said:


> We may have a thousand, but doesn't mean we want pakistani ones coming to our land and kill innocent people.
> 
> And there are indeed those in pakistan who condone such acts in the name of religion. What supreme insult to the name of religion.



oh yes!!!!!! than what are RAW agents doing in Durand Line,,, i mean are they playing gulli danda.?
11 consulates on Durand Line (mountains) are for fun? or issuing visa to animals their?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## WAQAS119

riju78 said:


> second that..please name a few active organisations...


 
*India - Terrorist, insurgent and extremist groups*

Assam


1. United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA)
2.
National Democratic Front of Bodoland (NDFB)
3. United People's Democratic Solidarity (UPDS)
4. Kamtapur Liberation Organisation (KLO)
5. Bodo Liberation Tiger Force (BLTF)
6. Dima Halim Daogah (DHD)
7. Karbi National Volunteers (KNV)
8. Rabha National Security Force (RNSF)
9. Koch-Rajbongshi Liberation Organisation (KRLO)
10. Hmar People's Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)
11. Karbi People's Front (KPF)
12. Tiwa National Revolutionary Force (TNRF)
13. Bircha Commando Force (BCF)
14. Bengali Tiger Force (BTF)
15. Adivasi Security Force (ASF)
16. All Assam Adivasi Suraksha Samiti (AAASS)
17. Gorkha Tiger Force (GTF)
18. Barak Valley Youth Liberation Front (BVYLF)



19. Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam (MULTA)
20. United Liberation Front of Barak Valley
21. Muslim United Liberation Front of Assam (MULFA)
22. Muslim Security Council of Assam (MSCA)
23. United Liberation Militia of Assam (ULMA)
24. Islamic Liberation Army of Assam (ILAA)
25. Muslim Volunteer Force (MVF)
26. Muslim Liberation Army (MLA)
27. Muslim Security Force (MSF)
28. Islamic Sevak Sangh (ISS)
29. Islamic United Reformation Protest of India (IURPI)
30. United Muslim Liberation Front of Assam (UMLFA)
31. Revolutionary Muslim Commandos (RMC)
32. Muslim Tiger Force (MTF)
33. Peoples United Liberation Front (PULF)
34. Adam Sena (AS)
35. Harkat-ul-Mujahideen
36. Harkat-ul-Jehad

Jammu & Kashmir

Terrorist Outfits

1. Lashkar-e-Omar (LeO)
2. Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM)
3. Harkat-ul-Ansar (HuA, presently known as Harkat-ul Mujahideen)
4. Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT)
5. Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM)
6. Harkat-ul Mujahideen (HuM, previously known as Harkat-ul-Ansar)
7. Al Badr
8. Jamait-ul-Mujahideen (JuM)
9. Lashkar-e-Jabbar (LeJ)
10. Harkat-ul-Jehad-i-Islami
11. Al Barq
12. Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen
13. Al Jehad
14. Jammu & Kashir National Liberation Army
15. Peoples League
16. Muslim Janbaz Force
17. Kashmir Jehad Force
18. Al Jehad Force (combines Muslim Janbaz Force and Kashmir Jehad Force)
19. Al Umar Mujahideen
20. Mahaz-e-Azadi
21. Islami Jamaat-e-Tulba
22. Jammu & Kashmir Students Liberation Front
23. Ikhwan-ul-Mujahideen
24. Islamic Students League
25. Tehrik-e-Hurriat-e-Kashmir
26. Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqar Jafaria
27. Al Mustafa Liberation Fighters
28. Tehrik-e-Jehad-e-Islami
29. Muslim Mujahideen
30. Al Mujahid Force
31. Tehrik-e-Jehad
32. Islami Inquilabi Mahaz


Other Extremist and Secessionist Groups

1. Mutahida Jehad Council (MJC) -- A Pakistan based coordination body of terrorist outfits active in Jammu and Kashmir
2. Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF)-- The dominant faction of this outfit declared a ceasefire in 1994 which still holds and the outfit restricts itself to a political struggle.
3. All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC) -- an alliance engineered by Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) of 26 diverse political and socio-religious outfits amalgamated to provide a political face for the terrorists in the State.
4. Dukhtaran-e-Millat (DeM) -- an outfit run by women which uses community pressure to further the social norms dictated by Islamic fundamental groups.



Manipur


1. United National Liberation Front (UNLF)
2. Peoples Liberation Army (PLA)
3. Peoples Revolutionary Party of Kangleipak (PREPAK)
The above mentioned three groups now operate from a unified platform, the Manipur Peoples Liberation Front (MPLF)
4. Kangleipak Communist Party (KCP)
5. Kanglei Yawol Kanna Lup (KYKL)
6. Manipur Liberation Tiger Army (MLTA)
7. Iripak Kanba Lup (IKL)
8. Peoples Republican Army (PRA)
9. Kangleipak Kanba Kanglup (KKK)
10. Kangleipak Liberation Organisation (KLO)
11. Revolutionary Joint Committee (RJC)
12. National Socialist Council of Nagaland -- Isak-Muivah (NSCN-IM)
13. Peoples United Liberation Front (PULF)
14. North East Minority Front (NEMF)
15. Islamic National Front (INF)
16. Islamic Revolutionary Front (IRF)
17. United Islamic Liberation Army (UILA)
18. United Islamic Revolutionary Army (UIRA)



19. Kuki National Front (KNF)
20. Kuki National Army (KNA)
21. Kuki Revolutionary Army (KRA)
22. Kuki National Organisation (KNO)
23. Kuki Independent Army (KIA)
24. Kuki Defence Force (KDF)
25. Kuki International Force (KIF)
26. Kuki National Volunteers (KNV)
27. Kuki Liberation Front (KLF)
28. Kuki Security Force (KSF)
29. Kuki Liberation Army (KLA)
30. Kuki Revolutionary Front (KRF)
31. United Kuki Liberation Front (UKLF)
32. Hmar Peoples Convention (HPC)
33. Hmar People's Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)
34. Hmar Revolutionary Front (HRF)
35. Zomi Revolutionary Army (ZRA)
36. Zomi Revolutionary Volunteers (ZRV)
37. Indigenous People's Revolutionary Alliance(IRPA)
38. Kom Rem People's Convention (KRPC)
39. Chin Kuki Revolutionary Front (CKRF)

Meghalaya


1. Hynniewtrep National Liberation Council (HNLC)
2. Achik National Volunteer Council (ANVC)



3. Peoples Liberation Front of Meghalaya (PLF-M)
4. Hajong United Liberation Army (HULA)

Nagaland


1. National Socialist Council of Nagaland (Isak-Muivah)  NSCN(IM)
2. National Socialist Council of Nagaland (Khaplang)  NSCN (K)



3. Naga National Council (Adino)  NNC (Adino)

Punjab 

1. Babbar Khalsa International (BKI)
2. Khalistan Zindabad Force (KZF)
3. International Sikh Youth Federation (ISYF)
4. Khalistan Commando Force (KCF)
5. All-India Sikh Students Federation (AISSF)
6. Bhindrawala Tigers Force of Khalistan (BTFK)
7. Khalistan Liberation Army (KLA)
8. Khalistan Liberation Front (KLF)
9. Khalistan Armed Force (KAF)
10. Dashmesh Regiment
11. Khalistan Liberation Organisation (KLO)
12. Khalistan National Army (KNA)



Tripura


1. National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT)
2. All Tripura Tiger Force (ATTF)
3. Tripura Liberation Organisation Front (TLOF)
4. United Bengali Liberation Front (UBLF)
5. Tripura Tribal Volunteer Force (TTVF)
6. Tripura Armed Tribal Commando Force (TATCF)
7. Tripura Tribal Democratic Force (TTDF)
8. Tripura Tribal Youth Force (TTYF)
9. Tripura Liberation Force (TLF)
10. Tripura Defence Force (TDF)
11. All Tripura Volunteer Force (ATVF)
12. Tribal Commando Force (TCF)
13. Tripura Tribal Youth Force (TTYF)
14. All Tripura Bharat Suraksha Force (ATBSF)
15. Tripura Tribal Action Committee Force (TTACF)



16. Socialist Democratic Front of Tripura (SDFT)
17. All Tripura National Force (ATNF)
18. Tripura Tribal Sengkrak Force (TTSF)
19. Tiger Commando Force (TCF)
20. Tripura Mukti Police (TMP)
21. Tripura Rajya Raksha Bahini (TRRB)
22. Tripura State Volunteers (TSV)
23. Tripura National Democratic Tribal Force (TNDTF)
24. National Militia of Tripura (NMT)
25. All Tripura Bengali Regiment (ATBR)
26. Bangla Mukti Sena (BMS)
27. All Tripura Liberation Organisation (ATLO)
28. Tripura National Army (TNA)
29. Tripura State Volunteers (TSV)
30. Borok National Council of Tripura (BNCT)

Mizoram 

1. Bru National Liberation Front
2. Hmar People's Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)


Arunachal Pradesh 

1. Arunachal Dragon Force (ADF)



Left-wing Extremist groups


1. Communist Party of India-Maoist (CPI-Maoist)
2. People's War Group
3. Maoist Communist Centre
4. People's Guerrilla Army
5. Communist Party of India (Marxist Leninist) Janashakti
6. Tritiya Prastuti Committee (TPC)


Other Extremist Groups 

1. Tamil National Retrieval Troops (TNRT)
2. Akhil Bharat Nepali Ekta Samaj (ABNES)
3. Tamil Nadu Liberation Army (TNLA)
4. Deendar Anjuman
5. Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI)
6. Asif Reza Commando Force
7. Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
8. Kamatapur Liberation Organisation (KLO)
9. Ranvir Sena


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## blueoval79

^^^^

How many of them are currently active......???????????????????

And do try and read this: India Assessment 2010


This is from the same source that you got the list.


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## riju78

WAQAS119 said:


> *India - Terrorist, insurgent and extremist groups*
> 
> Assam
> 
> 
> 1. United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA)
> 2.
> National Democratic Front of Bodoland (NDFB)
> 3. United People's Democratic Solidarity (UPDS)
> 4. Kamtapur Liberation Organisation (KLO)
> 5. Bodo Liberation Tiger Force (BLTF)
> 6. Dima Halim Daogah (DHD)
> 7. Karbi National Volunteers (KNV)
> 8. Rabha National Security Force (RNSF)
> 9. Koch-Rajbongshi Liberation Organisation (KRLO)
> 10. Hmar People's Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)
> 11. Karbi People's Front (KPF)
> 12. Tiwa National Revolutionary Force (TNRF)
> 13. Bircha Commando Force (BCF)
> 14. Bengali Tiger Force (BTF)
> 15. Adivasi Security Force (ASF)
> 16. All Assam Adivasi Suraksha Samiti (AAASS)
> 17. Gorkha Tiger Force (GTF)
> 18. Barak Valley Youth Liberation Front (BVYLF)
> 
> 
> 
> 19. Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam (MULTA)
> 20. United Liberation Front of Barak Valley
> 21. Muslim United Liberation Front of Assam (MULFA)
> 22. Muslim Security Council of Assam (MSCA)
> 23. United Liberation Militia of Assam (ULMA)
> 24. Islamic Liberation Army of Assam (ILAA)
> 25. Muslim Volunteer Force (MVF)
> 26. Muslim Liberation Army (MLA)
> 27. Muslim Security Force (MSF)
> 28. Islamic Sevak Sangh (ISS)
> 29. Islamic United Reformation Protest of India (IURPI)
> 30. United Muslim Liberation Front of Assam (UMLFA)
> 31. Revolutionary Muslim Commandos (RMC)
> 32. Muslim Tiger Force (MTF)
> 33. Peoples United Liberation Front (PULF)
> 34. Adam Sena (AS)
> 35. Harkat-ul-Mujahideen
> 36. Harkat-ul-Jehad
> 
> Jammu & Kashmir
> 
> Terrorist Outfits
> 
> 1. Lashkar-e-Omar (LeO)
> 2. Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM)
> 3. Harkat-ul-Ansar (HuA, presently known as Harkat-ul Mujahideen)
> 4. Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT)
> 5. Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM)
> 6. Harkat-ul Mujahideen (HuM, previously known as Harkat-ul-Ansar)
> 7. Al Badr
> 8. Jamait-ul-Mujahideen (JuM)
> 9. Lashkar-e-Jabbar (LeJ)
> 10. Harkat-ul-Jehad-i-Islami
> 11. Al Barq
> 12. Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen
> 13. Al Jehad
> 14. Jammu & Kashir National Liberation Army
> 15. Peoples League
> 16. Muslim Janbaz Force
> 17. Kashmir Jehad Force
> 18. Al Jehad Force (combines Muslim Janbaz Force and Kashmir Jehad Force)
> 19. Al Umar Mujahideen
> 20. Mahaz-e-Azadi
> 21. Islami Jamaat-e-Tulba
> 22. Jammu & Kashmir Students Liberation Front
> 23. Ikhwan-ul-Mujahideen
> 24. Islamic Students League
> 25. Tehrik-e-Hurriat-e-Kashmir
> 26. Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqar Jafaria
> 27. Al Mustafa Liberation Fighters
> 28. Tehrik-e-Jehad-e-Islami
> 29. Muslim Mujahideen
> 30. Al Mujahid Force
> 31. Tehrik-e-Jehad
> 32. Islami Inquilabi Mahaz
> 
> 
> Other Extremist and Secessionist Groups
> 
> 1. Mutahida Jehad Council (MJC) -- A Pakistan based coordination body of terrorist outfits active in Jammu and Kashmir
> 2. Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF)-- The dominant faction of this outfit declared a ceasefire in 1994 which still holds and the outfit restricts itself to a political struggle.
> 3. All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC) -- an alliance engineered by Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) of 26 diverse political and socio-religious outfits amalgamated to provide a political face for the terrorists in the State.
> 4. Dukhtaran-e-Millat (DeM) -- an outfit run by women which uses community pressure to further the social norms dictated by Islamic fundamental groups.
> 
> 
> 
> Manipur
> 
> 
> 1. United National Liberation Front (UNLF)
> 2. Peoples Liberation Army (PLA)
> 3. Peoples Revolutionary Party of Kangleipak (PREPAK)
> The above mentioned three groups now operate from a unified platform, the Manipur Peoples Liberation Front (MPLF)
> 4. Kangleipak Communist Party (KCP)
> 5. Kanglei Yawol Kanna Lup (KYKL)
> 6. Manipur Liberation Tiger Army (MLTA)
> 7. Iripak Kanba Lup (IKL)
> 8. Peoples Republican Army (PRA)
> 9. Kangleipak Kanba Kanglup (KKK)
> 10. Kangleipak Liberation Organisation (KLO)
> 11. Revolutionary Joint Committee (RJC)
> 12. National Socialist Council of Nagaland -- Isak-Muivah (NSCN-IM)
> 13. Peoples United Liberation Front (PULF)
> 14. North East Minority Front (NEMF)
> 15. Islamic National Front (INF)
> 16. Islamic Revolutionary Front (IRF)
> 17. United Islamic Liberation Army (UILA)
> 18. United Islamic Revolutionary Army (UIRA)
> 
> 
> 
> 19. Kuki National Front (KNF)
> 20. Kuki National Army (KNA)
> 21. Kuki Revolutionary Army (KRA)
> 22. Kuki National Organisation (KNO)
> 23. Kuki Independent Army (KIA)
> 24. Kuki Defence Force (KDF)
> 25. Kuki International Force (KIF)
> 26. Kuki National Volunteers (KNV)
> 27. Kuki Liberation Front (KLF)
> 28. Kuki Security Force (KSF)
> 29. Kuki Liberation Army (KLA)
> 30. Kuki Revolutionary Front (KRF)
> 31. United Kuki Liberation Front (UKLF)
> 32. Hmar Peoples Convention (HPC)
> 33. Hmar People's Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)
> 34. Hmar Revolutionary Front (HRF)
> 35. Zomi Revolutionary Army (ZRA)
> 36. Zomi Revolutionary Volunteers (ZRV)
> 37. Indigenous People's Revolutionary Alliance(IRPA)
> 38. Kom Rem People's Convention (KRPC)
> 39. Chin Kuki Revolutionary Front (CKRF)
> 
> Meghalaya
> 
> 
> 1. Hynniewtrep National Liberation Council (HNLC)
> 2. Achik National Volunteer Council (ANVC)
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Peoples Liberation Front of Meghalaya (PLF-M)
> 4. Hajong United Liberation Army (HULA)
> 
> Nagaland
> 
> 
> 1. National Socialist Council of Nagaland (Isak-Muivah)  NSCN(IM)
> 2. National Socialist Council of Nagaland (Khaplang)  NSCN (K)
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Naga National Council (Adino)  NNC (Adino)
> 
> Punjab
> 
> 1. Babbar Khalsa International (BKI)
> 2. Khalistan Zindabad Force (KZF)
> 3. International Sikh Youth Federation (ISYF)
> 4. Khalistan Commando Force (KCF)
> 5. All-India Sikh Students Federation (AISSF)
> 6. Bhindrawala Tigers Force of Khalistan (BTFK)
> 7. Khalistan Liberation Army (KLA)
> 8. Khalistan Liberation Front (KLF)
> 9. Khalistan Armed Force (KAF)
> 10. Dashmesh Regiment
> 11. Khalistan Liberation Organisation (KLO)
> 12. Khalistan National Army (KNA)
> 
> 
> 
> Tripura
> 
> 
> 1. National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT)
> 2. All Tripura Tiger Force (ATTF)
> 3. Tripura Liberation Organisation Front (TLOF)
> 4. United Bengali Liberation Front (UBLF)
> 5. Tripura Tribal Volunteer Force (TTVF)
> 6. Tripura Armed Tribal Commando Force (TATCF)
> 7. Tripura Tribal Democratic Force (TTDF)
> 8. Tripura Tribal Youth Force (TTYF)
> 9. Tripura Liberation Force (TLF)
> 10. Tripura Defence Force (TDF)
> 11. All Tripura Volunteer Force (ATVF)
> 12. Tribal Commando Force (TCF)
> 13. Tripura Tribal Youth Force (TTYF)
> 14. All Tripura Bharat Suraksha Force (ATBSF)
> 15. Tripura Tribal Action Committee Force (TTACF)
> 
> 
> 
> 16. Socialist Democratic Front of Tripura (SDFT)
> 17. All Tripura National Force (ATNF)
> 18. Tripura Tribal Sengkrak Force (TTSF)
> 19. Tiger Commando Force (TCF)
> 20. Tripura Mukti Police (TMP)
> 21. Tripura Rajya Raksha Bahini (TRRB)
> 22. Tripura State Volunteers (TSV)
> 23. Tripura National Democratic Tribal Force (TNDTF)
> 24. National Militia of Tripura (NMT)
> 25. All Tripura Bengali Regiment (ATBR)
> 26. Bangla Mukti Sena (BMS)
> 27. All Tripura Liberation Organisation (ATLO)
> 28. Tripura National Army (TNA)
> 29. Tripura State Volunteers (TSV)
> 30. Borok National Council of Tripura (BNCT)
> 
> Mizoram
> 
> 1. Bru National Liberation Front
> 2. Hmar People's Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)
> 
> 
> Arunachal Pradesh
> 
> 1. Arunachal Dragon Force (ADF)
> 
> 
> 
> Left-wing Extremist groups
> 
> 
> 1. Communist Party of India-Maoist (CPI-Maoist)
> 2. People's War Group
> 3. Maoist Communist Centre
> 4. People's Guerrilla Army
> 5. Communist Party of India (Marxist Leninist) Janashakti
> 6. Tritiya Prastuti Committee (TPC)
> 
> 
> Other Extremist Groups
> 
> 1. Tamil National Retrieval Troops (TNRT)
> 2. Akhil Bharat Nepali Ekta Samaj (ABNES)
> 3. Tamil Nadu Liberation Army (TNLA)
> 4. Deendar Anjuman
> 5. Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI)
> 6. Asif Reza Commando Force
> 7. Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
> 8. Kamatapur Liberation Organisation (KLO)
> 9. Ranvir Sena


i have no problem seeing a list in a site..i said ACTIVE organisations
..repeat ACTIVE


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## riju78

India Assessment &#8211; 2010
The good news first. Under a new leadership, a moribund Union Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) has been galvanized into unprecedented action by the shock of the November 26, 2008, Pakistan-backed Islamist terrorist outrage in Mumbai. According to the South Asia Terrorism Portal (SATP) database, total terrorism/insurgency related fatalities have fallen from a peak of 5,839 in 2001, and from 2,611 in 2008, to 2,226 in 2009. Jammu & Kashmir (J&K), which accounted for an overwhelming proportion of casualties (4,507) at this peak, has seen the most precipitate decline, with 377 killed in 2009. Every year since 2001 has seen continuous diminution in total fatalities in J&K, and 2009 was the third year running with total fatalities below the &#8216;high intensity conflict&#8217; benchmark of 1,000 killed. Consistent with past years, moreover, the bulk of fatalities have been inflicted on the terrorists, accounting for 65 per cent of the total of 377 killed in 2009.

Across India&#8217;s Northeast, total fatalities dropped from 1,054 in 2008 to 843 in 2009. Even Manipur, the State worst affected by a multiplicity of criminalized insurgencies, saw a marginal improvement, with fatalities declining from 492 in 2008 to 416 in 2009 &#8211; a figure that is still devastatingly high in this tiny State of 2.4 million people. Counter-insurgency (CI) gains in Manipur are, however, tentative and remain reversible, with little evidence of civil governance in the State.

Though Assam saw an escalation in total fatalities, from 373 in 2008, to 392 in 2009, virtually the entire &#8216;executive committee&#8217; of the United Liberationa Front of Asom (ULFA) is now in custody, barring the group&#8217;s &#8216;commander-in-chief&#8217; Paresh Baruah. Another of the State&#8217;s virulent terrorist groupings, the Black Widow (BW) was forced to surrender en masse after the capture of its &#8216;commander-in-chief&#8217;, Jewel Gorlosa. The year also saw the mass surrender of the United People&#8217;s Democratic Solidarity (UPDS) cadres . By and large, the most dangerous terrorist and insurgent formations have suffered dramatic reverses in the State.

Despite soaring apprehensions after Mumbai 26/11, no major Islamist terrorist attack was witnessed at any urban centre outside J&K. However, Union Home Minister P. Chidambaram has repeatedly spoken of at least 13 terrorist attempts that have been averted by intelligence and enforcement agencies in the year after 26/11, and continuous alerts, arrests and exposures of international networks and conspiracies have kept the temperature high.

Bangladesh, which had emerged under Pakistani and radical Islamist influence, as another canker in India&#8217;s side, gave dramatic evidence of a sharp reversal of its policy and orientation after Shiekh Hasina&#8217;s electoral sweep in December 2008. The Sheikh Hasina Government has, since, cracked down on terrorists of all shades, including the Islamists, as well as various insurgent groupings active in India&#8217;s Northeast, who had long secured patronage and safe haven on Bangladeshi soil.

And now the bad news. The Maoist rampage escalated, pushing fatalities to just below &#8216;high intensity&#8217; levels, with 998 killed in 2009, underlining the enduring incoherence of state responses. Left Wing Extremism (LWE) related fatalities have escalated continuously since 2001, even as increasingly wider areas have come under their sway. The current tally, according to Home Minister Chidambaram, works out at 223 Districts across 20 States, out of a total of 636 Districts in 28 States and 7 Union Territories, variously afflicted by Maoist activities. In a recent statement, the Communist Party of India &#8211; Maoist (CPI-Maoist) Central Committee spokesman, Azad, threatened that the Party would "expand to wider areas, mobilise wider masses... gather new momentum and get new dynamism", in the wake of the Centre&#8217;s disjointed efforts to launch multi-State CI operations.

No doubt, the situation is not quite as alarming as the 223 District figure may initially suggest. A third of the country has by no means been &#8216;captured&#8217; by the Maoists, nor are these vast areas seething with disruptive violence. The Home Minister thus clarified that violence "has been consistently witnessed in about 400 Police Station areas of around 90 Districts in 13 States" (there are over 14,000 Police Stations in the country). But 90 Districts experiencing &#8216;consistent violence&#8217; is significantly greater than the total of 55w variously affected Districts in 2003. The steady expansion of Maoist networks and the calibrated extension of their violence reflect a significant strategic failure on the part of the state. The data on fatalities provides an index of the degree to which the Maoists have monopolized the initiative, with civilians and Security Forces (SFs) accounting for nearly 71 per cent of the 998 killings in 2009, as against 66 per cent of the 638 fatalities in 2008.

Nevertheless, in the overall context, threats, at the beginning to 2010, appear to have diminished. Crucially, however, the potential has not, even as capacities of response, despite the sound and fury of the media and policy discourse after 26/11, have not been satisfactorily augmented.

The external factor remains critical, though the internal responses have had significant impact on insurgent trajectories in several theatres. On the J&K front, for instance, the comparative calm remains principally a consequence, not of any dramatic Indian initiatives or successes, but of Pakistan&#8217;s growing internal difficulties and the overwhelming media and international focus on the support regional and international terrorism secures on that country&#8217;s soil. Nevertheless, while the tap has been turned down, it is evident that the infrastructure of the anti-India jihad continues to be held in reserve by the Pakistani state, and the &#8216;flow&#8217; of terrorism continues to be calibrated to synchronize with shifting Pakistani policies and perceptions. Significantly, 2009 saw a spurt in infiltration over 2008, the first time since 2002 that there has been a year-on-year increase. According to MHA data, there were 473 infiltration bids in 2009, as against 342 in 2008. Of these, 367 were thwarted, and 93 terrorists were &#8216;neutralized&#8217; &#8211; arrested or killed &#8211; while 227 terrorists were forced back into Pakistan-held territories. Nevertheless, 110 terrorists are estimated to have managed to get into J&K, with an estimated 70 per cent foreign and 30 per cent local component. There is also mounting evidence of an escalation of tensions along the Line of Control (LoC) and International Border (IB), with Pakistani troops repeatedly firing on Indian Forces, usually to divert attention from or to facilitate terrorist infiltration. At least 28 incidents of ceasefire violation were recorded along the LoC in 2009.

With regard to the Pakistan-backed Islamist terrorism in J&K and across the wider Indian theatre, the most significant and potentially threatening unknown, in the medium and long term, remains the outcome of the US &#8216;AfPak&#8217; enterprise. This is a project that has been hobbled by persistent incoherence, with each announcement of a &#8216;surge&#8217; accompanied by unrealistic &#8216;exit&#8217; deadlines that can only give encouragement to the enemy, and fuel greater violence. A possible failure of the AfPak campaigns threatens not only the descent of the entire target region into anarchy, but would have crucial consequences on India&#8217;s internal security. A premature Western withdrawal from Afghanistan would restore the open alliance between the Pakistani state and the Islamist extremists to a "pre-9/11 plus" status, with even more virulent capacities and networks being directed outwards &#8211; and substantially into India. While this danger is now increasingly acknowledged within the Indian strategic community, there is little evidence of a sufficient effort to create the necessary capacities for response.

Another troubling external factor has been the rising evidence of Chinese mischief, not only by way of overtly threatening moves along the border and the unqualified support China has extended to its &#8216;all weather friend&#8217;, Pakistan, but through visible efforts to prop movements of internal disorder within India. Crucially, as much of the surviving ULFA leadership was arrested in Bangladesh and handed over to Indian authorities, authoritative sources confirmed that Paresh Baruah, the group&#8217;s &#8216;commander-in-chief&#8217; had made repeated trips to Kunming in China, and that he had been assured aid and assistance to restore his organisation along the China-Myanmar border. There is also evidence of an increasing flow of Chinese small arms into India, in volumes that suggest direct state collusion or facilitation. China&#8217;s broader moves across the South and South East Asian regions have acquired a quiet and sustained menace, which India remains unprepared to resist.

Within the internal scenario, while improvements in many theatres are manifest, vulnerabilities persist. The quality of governance remains indifferent, often abysmal, most dramatically in the Maoist affected areas, but also in J&K and the States of the Northeast, as well as across wide territories of many of the States that are still outside the ambit of terrorist and insurgent violence.

Crucially, the crisis of capacities remains substantially unaddressed within the intelligence, enforcement and administrative apparatus. It is not the intention, here, to make a detailed assessment of this crisis, or of the faltering efforts of the recent past to address the colossal cumulative deficits that have crippled India&#8217;s security systems. It is useful, however, to note that, notwithstanding a nascent coherence of perspectives at New Delhi, translating this into effective capacities is a project still very much in the future. Regrettably, moreover, the Centre&#8217;s efforts have been undermined, at least in some measure, by an obsession with form, to the abiding neglect of content. Moreover, the Centre has failed to impress upon many of the States the urgency and magnitude of what is required of them, and a conflict of perspectives remains recurrent &#8211; manifested most recently in the Jharkhand Government&#8217;s brief suspension of anti-Maoist operations, though this decision was quickly reversed after the hue and cry raised by the media. It is evident, however, that there are several State Governments and political constituencies whose heart is not in the CI efforts the Centre is trying to catalyse.

There has certainly been significant relief in many theatres, and in the overall levels of terrorist and insurgent violence experienced across India. A sagacious use of this respite would focus on urgent efforts to build, consolidate and reorient the state&#8217;s capacities to deal with threats that remain, at best, dormant, even as new dangers loom on the horizon.


http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/index.html


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## WAQAS119

^then enjoy,,, I can only say this to you. 

 facilities reduced but why unrestness and no. of terrorist attack increased!!! How!!! Claim seems wrong!!


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## EjazR

*Pakistani Man Convicted in 2008 Mumbai Attacks - NYTimes.com*

MUMBAI, India &#8212; The only surviving gunman of the 2008 terrorist attack against this city was convicted Monday of waging war against India, murder, conspiracy and other crimes during a the three-day assault that killed more than 160 people. The defendant, Ajmal Kasab, a Pakistani, hung his head as a judge read a summary of the judgment to him in Hindi at a special jail courtroom here. Mr. Kasab, who had spent most of the hearing bent over, held a grave expression but did not say anything.

&#8220;The offenses committed by them was a brazen act of war against India,&#8221; the judge, M. L. Tahaliyani, said, referring to Mr. Kasab and nine other gunmen who attacked five-star hotels, a busy commuter train station, a popular bar and a Jewish center. He added, &#8220;It was not a simple crime of murder or intent to murder.&#8221;

*Mr. Kasab faces the death penalty or life in prison; the court will meet on Tuesday to consider his sentence.
*
The verdict comes just days after Prime Minister Manmohan Singh of India discussed terrorism with Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani of Pakistan on the sidelines of a regional submit in Bhutan. The Mumbai attacks severely strained already-tense relations between the countries, who have fought several wars since they were divided after the end of British rule here in 1947.

India has accused elements of Pakistan&#8217;s military and intelligence services of aiding terror groups against India. Pakistani officials have denied providing state support to such groups.

*On Monday, the court also acquitted two Indians whom the police had accused of aiding the terrorists by supplying them with a map of Mumbai. After sharply criticizing the prosecution, the judge presiding over the case, M. L. Tahaliyani, said the evidence against those two men &#8220;falls very short.&#8221;
*
*The government had accused those men, Fahim Ansari and Sabauddin Ahmed, of drawing and supplying a map recovered from the pocket of one of the dead gunmen. Mr. Tahaliyani said that the links tying the two men, the map and the terrorists were tenuous. The recovered map, for instance, was clean while the pants and pockets of the dead gunman from whom it was said to have been recovered were soiled with sweat and blood, the judge said.*

The prosecutor leading the government&#8217;s case, Ujjwal Nikam, said he would appeal the acquittal.

In the case against Mr. Kasab, the judge said a retracted confession by him and convincing corroborative evidence showed he and the other gunmen had been trained and sent by a Pakistani terrorist group, Lashkar-e-Taiba. He said 35 men, including Hafez Saeed, the founder of that group whom India has accused of orchestrating the attack, appear to be involved in planning the attacks. But the judge added that their guilt could not be proven in his court.

India has sought the extradition of Mr. Saeed and other Pakistanis without success. Officials in Pakistan have said that India needs to provide more evidence.

After the attacks, India broke off a formal &#8220;composite dialogue&#8221; with Pakistan. For months, India refused to resume dialogue but that changed earlier this year with a meeting between senior bureaucrats. Both sides described last week&#8217;s meeting between the prime ministers as productive and said the Indian and Pakistani foreign ministers would meet soon.

The trial of Mr. Kasab, 22, and the two other men took about year to conclude &#8212; a very fast resolution for the Indian judicial system, where cases often drag on for years and even decades. The court received testimony from more than 600 witnesses, thousands of pages of evidence and video and audio surveillance of the attack. Judge Tahaliyani&#8217;s decision totaled more than 1,500 pages.

In spite of the fast pace, the trial suffered a number of setbacks. Mr. Kasab&#8217;s original court-appointed lawyer was dismissed on the first day of hearings after it was revealed that she was representing a witness to the attacks in a separate civil case. The court dismissed Mr. Kasab&#8217;s second lawyer late last year after he and Judge Tahaliyani disagreed about a procedural matter.

Mr. Kasab has also changed his version of the events several times. After his arrest, he provided a rich narrative about how he became a terrorist to the police and a magistrate. But he recanted his earlier statement at the start of the trial. Then, last July, he said in court that he was guilty and wanted to be hanged. However, he changed his mind again in December and told the court he was a tourist who arrived in Mumbai before the attacks and had been framed by the police.

The attacks started on Nov. 26, 2008. Mr. Kasab and a partner, Abu Ismail, shot and killed commuters at the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, a busy train station, where the Indian authorities said 58 people died. After a confrontation later that evening, police officers killed Mr. Ismail and arrested Mr. Kasab.

It took commandos nearly three days to kill the other eight attackers who had taken over two of Mumbai&#8217;s finest hotels, the Oberoi and the Taj Mahal Palace and Tower, and a Chabad-Lubavitch center then known as Nariman House.

The Mumbai attacks also spread wider international tentacles.

*Last December, an American at the center of an international terrorism investigation was charged with helping plot the Mumbai attacks by identifying targets for Lashkar-e-Taiba. The suspect, David C. Headley of Chicago, pleaded guilty in March.
*
Mr. Headley was first arrested in October, 2009, along with another Chicago resident, Tahawwur Rana, and charged with plotting to attack a Danish newspaper that in 2005 published cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad, outraging much of the Muslim world.


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## riju78

WAQAS119 said:


> ^then enjoy,,, I can only say this to you.



thank you..nice and polite way to end a debate....


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## riju78

*Pakistani man convicted for 2008 Mumbai siege (CNN)*

Mumbai, India (CNN) -- The only surviving gunman from a three-day terror attack on the Indian city of Mumbai was convicted Monday of murder, conspiracy and waging war on India.
Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, a Pakistani, could face the death penalty or life in prison. A judge is expected to sentence him Tuesday.
Two Indian nationals accused of conspiracy were acquitted, and the prosecutor said he would fight the acquittal.
"I will challenge it and will recommend the government to appeal," public prosecutor Ujjwal Nikam told reporters after the verdict.
Nikam insisted that the "evidence" that he had would eventually establish the role of the acquitted Indian suspects -- Fahim Ansari and Sabauddin Ahmed -- in the plot.
More than 160 people were killed in Mumbai in November 2008, as 10 men attacked buildings including the Taj Mahal Palace and Tower and Oberoi-Trident hotels, the city's historic Victoria Terminus train station, and the Jewish cultural center, Chabad House.
The assault lasted three days. Kasab was photographed holding an assault weapon during the attacks.
India's home minister P. Chidambaram expressed satisfaction over the verdict and described it as a message to Pakistan "not to export" terror to India.
"The judgment itself is a message to Pakistan that they should not export terror to India," the home minister said.
"If they do, and we apprehend the terrorists, we will be able to bring them to justice and give them exemplary punishment.
"The trial of Kasab underlines the fact that India is a country governed by the rule of law," he said, asserting that the suspects had been given a fair trial with an opportunity to defend themselves.
India blamed the attacks on the Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, a Pakistan-based terror group allied with al Qaeda.
Authorities said Kasab was trained by the organization, which was banned in Pakistan in 2002 after an attack on India's parliament. The group denied responsibility.
The Mumbai attack derailed a fragile peace process between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan for about 15 months.
Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his Pakistani counterpart Yousaf Raza Gilani met last week in an effort to resume a peace process that was derailed by the 2008 attack on Mumbai.
Indian forces killed nine suspects in that attack. Their bodies were embalmed and kept in a hospital morgue as some local Muslim groups refused them a burial in their graveyards, saying the attackers were not true followers of Islam.
An Indian official in Maharashtra state, where Mumbai is located, said a burial took place in January this year. He did not give the date or the exact location of what he described as a secret funeral.

Pakistani man convicted for 2008 Mumbai siege - CNN.com


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## WAQAS119

riju78 said:


> thank you..nice and polite way to end a debate....



i didn't wanted this kind of debate but ur few poor country men insisted me to start that...

Now they will be surely shocked to see mirror.


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## riju78

*Co-accused Fahim Ansari, Sabahuddin, acquitted*

The real punch of the 26/11 verdict lies not in the predictable judgement on Ajmal Kasab, but in the fact that two Indians who were co-accused with Kasab have been acquitted. 

Judge ML Tahaliyani blasted the Mumbai police for the case it made against Fahim Ansari and Sabauddin Shaikh.

Ansari was arrested in February 2008 in Lucknow, Sabahuddin in April 2008. Both men brought to Mumbai in December after 26/11. 

Ansari was accused of surveying the places to be targeted during 26/11 and of passing maps on to Shaika, who allegedly forwarded these to his Pakistani handlers. The judge said, "Google has better maps than these." 

The Mumbai crime branch claimed that both Ansari and Shaikh attended training camps similar to those attended by Kasab in Pakistan.


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## notsuperstitious

WAQAS119 said:


> oh yes!!!!!! than what are RAW agents doing in Durand Line,,, i mean are they playing gulli danda.?
> 11 consulates on Durand Line (mountains) are for fun? or issuing visa to animals their?



After trying to obfuscate the kasab issue, you have resorted to telling lies. there are no 11 indian consulates, thats a white lie you have been fed so that you feel better about your kasabs.

Going by your posts, i don't think you need those lies.

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## Bang Galore

WAQAS119 said:


> i didn't wanted this kind of debate but ur few poor country men insisted me to start that...
> 
> Now they will be surely shocked to see mirror.



What kind of debate did you want? We have read your posts on many different threads and have absolutely no doubt where your sympathies lie. You are bent upon hijacking this thread because your arguments have quite literally run away looking at the mirror you keep insisting on showing. Bereft of any argument, you are doing your best to derail the thread by bringing in rubbish that we have all seen before and dealt with on other threads.

Stick to the topic please or in the alternative, run behind your arguments and come back when you have caught a couple of them.

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## afriend

The judgement shows the free,fearless and indpenent nature of our judiciary. I do not know whether we can see this in pakistan, where even a Mr.10&#37; can become their president..!!! 

Any ways, i hope this sends out a postive message to our pakistani friends who question everything india.. and looks at them with suspicion.!!!

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## asq

RobbieS said:


> Its one thing trying to mold public opinion and quite other to refute TV footage and the fact that Kasab was captured alive by the police. Otherwise it wouldn't have taken the courts 18 months to announce the verdict.
> 
> And can you please enlighten us by sharing the past incidents where Indian courts sentenced terrorists to death under public opinion?Just think about the fact that you are trying to defend a terrorist!
> 
> 
> Now u said it and I will enlighten u, read and be informed.
> this is one case out of many, I can put up more, but this should be enough if u have any fairness in u.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian parliament attack &#8212; A case study
> 
> http://hindumuslimindia.blogspot.com
> 
> http://www.indiatogether.org/2007/mar/rvw-dec13.htm
> 
> And to boot u guys fired a Pakistani lawyer for not cooperating, what a frace, u guys know that Defance lawyer is supose to work for his client and not there to coooperate with oposition.
> 
> What kind of judiciary it is which dictates a defance lawyer to cooperate or he is fired.
> 
> And oh, read/see this and be enlightened or depressed in this case.
> 
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/ruchika-case-verdict-mocks-judicial-system/107703-3.html?from=tn


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## RobbieS

asq said:


> RobbieS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its one thing trying to mold public opinion and quite other to refute TV footage and the fact that Kasab was captured alive by the police. Otherwise it wouldn't have taken the courts 18 months to announce the verdict.
> 
> And can you please enlighten us by sharing the past incidents where Indian courts sentenced terrorists to death under public opinion?Just think about the fact that you are trying to defend a terrorist!
> 
> 
> Now u said it and I will enlighten u, read and be informed.
> this is one case out of many, I can put up more, but this should be enough if u have any fairness in u.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian parliament attack  A case study
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you read the report yourself? Where does the judgments imply that they were under pressure from public opinion? If at all, the judiciary acted fairly and threw out evidence that wasn't tenable in the court of law. I think this should make you believe in The Mumbai High Court's judgement on Kasab even more!
Click to expand...

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## Bang Galore

asq said:


> And to boot u guys fired *a Pakistani lawyer* for not cooperating, what a frace, u guys know that Defance lawyer is supose to work for his client and not there to coooperate with oposition.
> 
> What kind of judiciary it is which dictates a defance lawyer to cooperate or he is fired.



What Pakistani lawyer? There are no Pakistani lawyers in India. Abbas Kazmi is an Indian citizen. Get your facts right before rushing in. He was fired for not co-operatng with the court and whatever you may think, the judge is not regarded as the "opposition".

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## Kinetic

*What a shameless coward terrorist... killed innocent people in hospitals, hotels, rail station but in the court started crying for pardon!* This terrorist killed a guy in CST whom I knew.... After years of hard work he got a job few months back in Mumbai ....... God will never forgive them..... 





*Washington post: *

washingtonpost.com

Pakistani Gunman Found Guilty for Role in Mumbai Attacks

New Delhi 03 May 2010
India's Special Public prosecutor Ujjwal Nikam, center, speaks to reporters as he holds a report following the verdict outside the special court set up for the trial of Pakistani Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, accused of being the sole surviving gunman in the 2008


India's Special Public prosecutor Ujjwal Nikam, center, speaks to reporters as he holds a report following the verdict outside the special court set up for the trial of Pakistani Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, accused of being the sole surviving gunman in the 2008 terror attacks in Mumbai, India, 3 May 2010

In India, a court has convicted a Pakistani national for his role in the 2008 terror attacks in Mumbai that killed 166 people. He was the only gunman captured alive during the assaults, which strained ties between India and Pakistan. Two Indians, also on trial in connection with the attacks, have been acquitted.

A year and a half after India's financial hub was devastated by terror attacks, a special court found Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, 22, guilty of murder, waging war against India and other charges.

Kasab heard the judgment impassively. He was one of 10 gunmen who arrived by sea and attacked Mumbai's main rail station, two five-star hotels, a restaurant and a Jewish center in November 2008. The assaults lasted three days and claimed 166 lives.

Kasab is the only gunman who survived. He was arrested on the first night of the attacks. Footage from closed circuit cameras showed him armed with an AK 47 rifle at the rail station where scores of people died.

The sentence will be pronounced on Tuesday. He could face the death penalty. 

Indian authorities say the attacks were orchestrated by the Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba, of which Kasab is a member. * Islamabad has admitted that Kasab is a Pakistani citizen and that the attacks were partly plotted on its soil.*

Indian Home Minister P. Chidambaram said Monday's verdict sent a clear signal to Pakistan.

"The judgment itself is a message to Pakistan that they should not export terror to India," he said. "If they do, if the terrorists are apprehended, we will be able to bring them to justice and give them exemplary punishment."

Citing lack of evidence, the court acquitted two Indians, Fahim Ansari and Sabaauddin Ahmed, who were on trial for conducting reconnaissance before the attacks. The prosecution is likely to appeal the verdict. 

India charged 38 people in connection with the attacks, but most of them live in Pakistan. 

The trial has been concluded fairly quickly in a country where judicial proceedings can drag on for years. The trial witnessed several twists and turns as Kasab first pleaded innocence, then made a surprise confession, but later retracted it. 

The Mumbai terror attacks were among the worst that India has suffered. They prompted New Delhi to suspend peace talks with Pakistan, but both countries are now taking steps to normalize ties.

New Delhi has accused Islamabad of not doing enough to bring the perpetrators of the attacks to justice, and wants Pakistan to act against militants operating from its soil.

VoA: 

Pakistani Gunman Found Guilty for Role in Mumbai Attacks | Asia | English

Indian court convicts Pakistani militant in Mumbai attacks


Media wait outside the special court set up for the trial of a Pakistani accused of being the sole surviving gunman in the 2008 terror attacks, in Mumbai, India, Monday, May 3, 2010. The verdict in the trial of Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, allegedly one of ten gunmen who killed 166 people in a three day rampage in November 2008, which continues to strain relations between India and Pakistan, is expected later in the day. (AP Photo/Rafiq Maqbool)





An armed Indian security officer patrols outside the special court set up for the trial of a Pakistani accused of being the sole surviving gunman in the 2008 terror attacks in Mumbai, India, Monday, May 3, 2010. The verdict in the trial of Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, allegedly one of ten gunmen who killed 166 people in a three day rampage in November 2008, which continues to strain relations between India and Pakistan, is expected Monday.

Devika Rotwan, who was shot in her leg during the Mumbai attacks in 2008, walks by the landmark Taj Hotel in Mumbai, India, Monday, May 3, 2010. The verdict in the trial of Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, allegedly one of ten gunmen who killed 166 people in a three day rampage in November 2008, which continues to strain relations between India and Pakistan, is expected Monday.


Monday, May 3, 2010; 8:54 AM

NEW DELHI--A 22-year-old Pakistani militant was found guilty Monday of "waging war on India" during the brazen November 2008 attacks in Mumbai that killed 166 people and strained relations between the nuclear-armed rivals.

Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, who bowed his head during the verdict, will be sentenced Tuesday and could face the death penalty.

It was an emotional day for many Indians, since Kasab is the lone surviving gunman from the gun-and-grenade ambush on India's financial capital, a powerful strike at the very city that has been at the forefront of India's economic boom.

Kasab was videotaped by security camera during the two-and-a-half day siege, crazy-eyed and shooting up the city's busiest railway station. Prosecutors say Kasab was one of two militants who killed 52 people there.

A total of 610 witnesses testified during Kasab's trial, case, which ran for 271 days and produced a 1,522-page verdict that was read aloud today in a packed courtroom on the jail premises in Mumbai where Kasab is being held for security reasons.

Judge M.L. Tahiliyani acquitted two Indians who had been accused of helping plot the attacks.

Office workers and school children across the country gathered at television sets to watch the verdict for the attacks which are known in India as 26/11, mirroring the way Americans refer to the 2001 al-Qaeda attacks on New York and Washington. The world watched on live television as hostages from around the globe were terrorized for days at two luxury hotels and a Jewish outreach center, and Indian commandos struggled to kill the gunmen.
ad_icon

The country remains deeply divided on how Kasab should be punished, with some saying the death penalty will only further the cycle of bloodshed. "I will never have the mother of my children back," said Santanu Saikia, whose wife, Sabina Sehgal Saikia, an editor with Times of India newspaper and a food critic, was killed in her room on the fifth floor of the Taj Mahal Palace and Tower Hotel. "We have taken a decision that we are going to forgive Kasab in her memory. What else can we do?"

On the world stage, the Mumbai massacre has brought relations between India and Pakistan -- who have fought three wars -- to a new low. The Obama administration wants to ease tensions on the subcontinent and has been urging both sides back to the table. That way, Pakistan could focus on fighting the Taliban on its western border with Afghanistan.

At talks at regional conference last week in Bhutan, the countries' prime ministers agreed to agreed to begin rebuilding relations. But in a chilling reminder of the fragility of those talks, a terror attack warning in India all weekend kept many families locked indoors and sparked debate on Sunday talk shows about whether negotiations are realistic.

India says the Pakistan-based group Lashkar-i-Taiba, whose name means "Army of the Pure," ordered the November attacks. During the announcement of Kasab's verdict, the judge said India had evidence that Kasab was a part of Lashkar-i-Taiba. India has been frustrated over Pakistan's slowness in dismantling the group.

The planning of the Mumbai attacks stretched to Chicago, where David Coleman Headley, 49, arrested in a Chicago airport in October, acknowledged attending training camps sponsored by Lashkar-i-Taiba and changing his name from Daood Gilani to avoid notice in India.

Headley made five trips to Mumbai, where he videotaped possible targets and used a global-positioning device to help the plotters, who went on to attack the Taj Mahal and Oberoi hotels, a Jewish Chabad center and the train station, prosecutors said.
*
In Faridkot, Pakistan, where Kasab lived first 14 years of his life, residents had little to say about him in advance of the verdict.

"Ajmal brought a bad name to this village," said Tufail, 23, who lives across the narrow alley where Kasab's house was. "We're happy that the family is out of this village." 

Special correspondent Mohammed Rizwan contributed to this report from Faridkot, Pakistan.*


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## pak-marine

hang this *** ... and afterwards burn this SOB


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## nakodo

blueoval79 said:


> Look, don't blame him. There is nothing wrong if he did it with good intentions against an infidel country like India," said Amjad Ali



 Faggot Amjad Ali


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## asq

Bang Galore said:


> What Pakistani lawyer? There are no Pakistani lawyers in India. Abbas Kazmi is an Indian citizen. Get your facts right before rushing in. He was fired for not co-operatng with the court and whatever you may think, the judge is not regarded as the "opposition".



O.K. Indian Lawyer big deal, don't kill the facts by just a typo of one name.

It is extremely rare in judiciary system that a judge fires a defance lawyer, the only reason he can fire a lawyer is to declare Lawyer incompetant of handing the case based on evidance collected 
by an indepandant source and approved by the bench specially set for such a high profile case.

Pay attention to the facts of judiciary in India and its verdicts about Kahsmieri young men who asked and got amnesty from Indian army, but were forced and used by Indian Army to attack Indian Parliament. To make a caase against Pakistan and it backfired.

Judge surely sounds like a man on mission to overlook and convict the guy A.S.A.P. by objectionalbe means. and is using his Authority to do what is a serious act, firing a defance lawyer for lack of cooperation. 

A lawyer defending a case with international eyes on better be very carfull.

In no way I am trying to speak for this criminal but he must be given a fair trial and punished accodingly.


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## Hulk

Following is the sequence of events
1) Kasab is caught
2) Indian names village he belongs to
3) Geo find the village does a sting operation
4) Entire village denies Kasab is from their village (Who can influence entire village?)
5) His father is replaced by someone else in his home (Who wants to do that?)
6) Kasab gets convicted
7) Villagers said he did right.

Conclusion
1) At-least some people in village openly supports terrorist act in India.
2) A large number of these villagers are liars.
3) Someone in Pakistan did not wanted the world to find true identity of Kasab.

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## notsuperstitious

indianrabbit said:


> Following is the sequence of events
> 1) Kasab is caught
> 2) Indian names village he belongs to
> 3) Geo find the village does a sting operation
> 4) Entire village denies Kasab is from their village (Who can influence entire village?)
> 5) His father is replaced by someone else in his home (Who wants to do that?)
> 6) Some patriotic pakistani lawyer makes claims that kasab was caught in nepal and was handed over to india by nepal and that he represented the case. but he has no evidence of that 'case' and nepal govt denies it.
> 7) zardari on bbc world claims weeks after tha attacks he did not believe kasab was a pakistani
> 8) Media shows graffiti from kasab's village by JUD urging people with a charitable bend of mind to join jihad. BTW JUD is a charity and hafeez saeed is a humanitarian
> 9) a survey in pakistan shows 42% people think LET are the good guys
> 10) Kasab gets convicted
> 11) Villagers said he did right.
> 
> Conclusion
> 1) At-least some people in village openly supports terrorist act in India.
> 2) A large number of these villagers are liars
> 3) Someone in Pakistan did not wanted the world to find true identity of Kasab.




There, added some more facts.

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## notsuperstitious

asq said:


> O.K. Indian Lawyer big deal, don't kill the facts by just a typo of one name.
> 
> It is extremely rare in judiciary system that a judge fires a defance lawyer, the only reason he can fire a lawyer is to declare Lawyer incompetant of handing the case based on evidance collected
> by an indepandant source and approved by the bench specially set for such a high profile case.
> 
> Pay attention to the facts of judiciary in India and its verdicts about Kahsmieri young men who asked and got amnesty from Indian army, but were forced and used by Indian Army to attack Indian Parliament. To make a caase against Pakistan and it backfired.
> 
> Judge surely sounds like a man on mission to overlook and convict the guy A.S.A.P. by objectionalbe means. and is using his Authority to do what is a serious act, firing a defance lawyer for lack of cooperation.
> 
> A lawyer defending a case with international eyes on better be very carfull.
> 
> In no way I am trying to speak for this criminal but he must be given a fair trial and punished accodingly.



Yes, the judge is a terrorist, we are terrorist supporters for trying him in court.

You are making no sense. If a lawyer does not cooperate with court (means tries delaying tactics / criticizes the court in media etc) then he can be fired if not punished by court. while your heart bleeds for your boy, you are beating about the bush. Follow Amjad Ali, he's man enough.


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## Bang Galore

asq said:


> It is extremely rare in judiciary system that a judge fires a defance lawyer, the only reason he can fire a lawyer is to declare Lawyer incompetant of handing the case based on evidance collected
> by an indepandant source and approved by the bench specially set for such a high profile case.
> 
> Judge surely sounds like a man on mission to overlook and convict the guy A.S.A.P. by objectionalbe means. and is using his Authority to do what is a serious act, firing a defance lawyer for lack of cooperation.



The lawyer was appointed by the judge himself i.e. he was a court appointed lawyer. Kasab did not protest nor did he engage a different lawyer. Judges in India are accountable for their actions. Superior courts can be approached if a person is not happy with the judge's actions.



> Pay attention to the facts of judiciary in India and its verdicts about Kahsmieri young men who asked and got amnesty from Indian army, but were forced and used by Indian Army to attack Indian Parliament. To make a caase against Pakistan and it backfired.



And you would know this how exactly?



> A lawyer defending a case with international eyes on better be very carfull.



Yeah but I did not hear anyone but you raise that particular argument. Excepting conspiracy theorists of whom you might be one considering your views on the parliament attack, most other people are convinced of Kasab's guilt.



> In no way I am trying to speak for this criminal but he must be given a fair trial and punished accodingly.



He has had a fair trial and he will be punished accordingly. In any case this is just the beginning. He can appeal this judgement in the High court & then the Supreme court. He can engage different lawyers if he wants.

*So much sympathy for this scumbag, so little for his victims *!

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## asq

fateh71

your answers are mostly based on adversarial tones and less on stating the facts based on Law and order and comon courtsey.

Now comes the question, what did this Lawyer had to gain by delaying tectics, he would have gained more by moving this case faster. 

A Lawyer need to collect evidance to plead for his client and may refuse to use evidance handed to him by Judge or police, he may consider it if deemed neccessary, but he has the right to collect his own evidance and that might have delayed the proceedures, but that is what Justice is all about.

And Bang the glore. did u even bother to see the link i Put up about Kashmiri boys who attacked Indian Parliament, go read and than come back to talk.

How did u assume that i have sympathy for this criminal, u are assuming too much and are so bang on killing this idiot, if U did not want him to be tried than why did u take him to court. Now that he is in court u guys want the trial run as if it a Kangroo court and will convict the guy in one day.

so u have to let it take its course and wait till he is convicted and that is what is all about when a criminal is tried. dude.

u beeter not botch it, hurry it or make it look like it was a set up. Eyes of the world might be on this case. and at thistime in a case such as this Your courts are being watched by the world.

so make it right and Hang the guy if convicted. 
My symopathies are with those who Parished.


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## Goodperson

I am wondering why Pakistan called Kasab a stateless actor and abandoned him? it did not even provide him consular access. He will not be hanged so soon. India know its neighbor is cornered here. Kasab will be kept alive as a live example of stateless terrorist from a neighbor country.


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## Bang Galore

asq said:


> And Bang the glore. did u even bother to see the link i Put up about Kashmiri boys who attacked Indian Parliament, go read and than come back to talk.



Yeah, I did. Just thought that I would deal with one conspiracy theorist at a time and since he is not here to refute, no point in beating up on him. How is it that you are so quick to buy complicated conspiracy theories when the truth is far more simpler and in your face. Gen. Musharraf ordered a crackdown on LeT & JeM after the parliament attck. why exactly did he do that if this was all an inside job as you say. You need to read history and stop concentrating only on articles where the writers are the slightly more erudite equals of Zaid Hamid.



> How did u assume that i have sympathy for this criminal, u are assuming too much and are so bang on killing this idiot, if U did not want him to be tried than why did u take him to court. Now that he is in court u guys want the trial run as if it a Kangroo court and will convict the guy in one day.



Trial lasting one & a half years, over 600 witnesses being examined including from the FBI, hours & hours of cctv footage, intercepted telephone transcripts, does not look much like a kangaroo court , does it? all this for an individual who was caught during a firefight where one brave police officer took bullets into his body so that this guy gets caught alive and has his day in court.



> so u have to let it take its course and *wait till he is convicted* and that is what is all about when a criminal is tried. dude.



*Convicted*. Read the papers.



> u beeter not botch it, hurry it or make it look like it was a set up. Eyes of the world might be on this case. and at thistime in a case such as this Your courts are being watched by the world.



The Eyes of the world except for yours and your types like what they see. Thanks for your concern though.


> so make it right and Hang the guy if convicted.



That should hopefully happen.



> My symopathies are with those who Parished.



Good & thanks..

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## asq

so if the trerial hasbeen over and he is convicted, what do you want here on this forum.

the case has taken it due coaRse and has convicted the idiot who brought bad name to his village, dum people like that are far AND FEW BETWEEN, I AM GLAD.

SO GO AND REJOICE AND STOP POSTING ABOUT THIS STUPID PERSON AND HIS FOOLISH AND INHUMAN ACTS.


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## George Bush

asq said:


> so if the trerial hasbeen over and he is convicted, what do you want here on this forum.
> 
> the case has taken it due coaRse and has convicted the idiot who brought bad name to his village, dum people like that are far AND FEW BETWEEN, I AM GLAD.
> 
> SO GO AND REJOICE AND STOP POSTING ABOUT THIS STUPID PERSON AND HIS FOOLISH AND INHUMAN ACTS.



Kasab is not pakistani right?? 

Pakistan has habit/history of not accepting even their dead jawans.


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## asq

George Bush said:


> Kasab is not pakistani right??
> 
> Pakistan has habit/history of not accepting even their dead jawans.



Are u trolling.


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## sirius

asq said:


> Are u trolling.



no he is not..


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## asq

sirius said:


> no he is not..



He is as the heading reads "Mumbai attacks verdict".

Him saying not accepting Pakistani dead Jawans is not connected to the Mumbai attacks, he is for sure TROLLING.

http://www.123trolls.com/troll-deta...37;20troll=Frans Tyttenberger football player


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## flanker30

asq said:


> He is as the heading reads "Mumbai attacks verdict".
> 
> Him saying not accepting Pakistani dead Jawans is not connected to the Mumbai attacks, he is for sure TROLLING.
> 
> Frans Tyttenberger football player, original norwegian Tytter (forest troll)



truth is bitter,in ur lang it is trolling


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## asq

flanker30 said:


> truth is bitter,in ur lang it is trolling



U speaking the truth,that is a joke.


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## flanker30

asq said:


> U speaking the truth,that is a joke.



i tell the truth in form of jokes,coz they don't hurt and also make the others realised.better 4 both


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## harrymohan

afriend said:


> I would have to politely disagree with you here..!!! All evidence including photographic..videos... and witness are against him..!! It would be your ignorance if you say all these are not good enough evidence.. and mr ajmal kasab can be innocent..!!! Please don't try to accuse indian judiciary for giving him a fair trial.
> 
> In past too.. there was a very famous case called nithari killings.. where more than a dozen kids where killed and their skeltons and bones hwere recovered from Mr. Kholi the owner of the hosue... CBI and the other investigations agencies had made it clear that they didnt have any evidence against him..!! Still the lower court sentenced hiim to death.. due to the overwhelming public opinion and -ve perception against him.. But then again.. the higher court just set him free citing the lack of evidence..!!!
> 
> So i would say indian judiciary is independent and strong enough just as the democractic system in india...!!!



I want to correct you, The owner was Mr Pandher ofcourse he would have to be set free since he was rich though he was ******* prositutes and asking Koli the servant to take care of them (by killing them)


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## ejaz007

*Ajmal Kasab awarded death sentence *
Updated at: 1335 PST, Thursday, May 06, 2010


MUMBAI: Pronouncing the verdict, Special Court judge M L Tahaliyani said the case fell in the rarest of rarest category as defined by the Supreme Court and hence Kasab will have to face the gangman's noose.

Kasab was pronounced guilty May 3 in the Nov 26, 2008 Mumbai terror attack and the Special Judge's sentencing came in on Thursday afternoon. 

But it will be years and a big `yawning' process before Kasab takes the final steps to the gallows because:

He can go in appeal to the High Court. A year or two can go by.

If the High Court rejects his appeal, he will then go to the Supreme Court in appeal. This too may take a few years.

If the Supreme Court turns down his appeal, he can seek a pardon from the President of India.

The mercy plea will then be sent by the President to the Home Ministry for a thorough examination. Again, a few years may go by.

The Home Ministry will then send Kasab's file to the Maharashtra Government for comments and giving details.

The file then moves to the President's Secretariat for a final decision. By then, India may have a new President and will be facing a general election. Kasab's file will then be pushed to the table of the next president who may once again seek the opinion of the new government's Home Ministry.

One must remember that Afzal Guru's file is yet to reach the President's table though he was sentenced to death in 2006. The file is still in the hands of the Congress-led UPA government. 

Afzal Guru was sentenced to death for the audacious attack on Parliament on December 2001.

Moreover, 25 mercy pleas are still on the President's table for a final decision.

Ajmal Kasab awarded death sentence


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## Prometheus

it will take years for execution of kasab.
He will approach high court.....then supreme court..........then President of India........


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## Parashuram1

Indian legal system is quite funny. I must say, for a terrorist that massacred more than a 100 Indians as well as guests of India from different countries, a terrorist of such notoriety has the right to appeal to a courts and ask the president for a pardon!

As an ex-soldier myself I must say that a pardon of this nature would be an insult to the soldiers of your country who died fighting these terrorists. No court in Europe would ever even consider offering a terrorist the option of a pardon from one of our countries' top leaders.

Laughable!


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## Gene

WAQAS119 said:


> No matter he is innocent or not, he will get verdict of death.. Because in past too Indian courts has given such verdict by saying that even they found accused innocent but due to public opinion they have to give such verdict. And public opinion maker is media, and everyone knows how they behaved.
> 
> Thus public opinion matters in courts decision making especially in such kind of cases. This time they may not accept his innocence too.



Do you have any proof of your claim??

you think that man who killed 86 people is innocent. All the proofs against him are fake & the court will accuse him on the basis of public opinion.
I think you don't even have a little knowledge in judiciary system


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## EyelessInGaza

Parashuram1 said:


> Indian legal system is quite funny. I must say, for a terrorist that massacred more than a 100 Indians as well as guests of India from different countries, a terrorist of such notoriety has the right to appeal to a courts and ask the president for a pardon!
> 
> As an ex-soldier myself I must say that a pardon of this nature would be an insult to the soldiers of your country who died fighting these terrorists. No court in Europe would ever even consider offering a terrorist the option of a pardon from one of our countries' top leaders.
> 
> Laughable!



It may be laughable but it's the rule of law and due process. 

The Indian judicial system isn't exactly a beacon to the world in terms of efficiency, but I would rather have this than, say, people getting hanged without exhausting all avenues.


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## Nemesis

> Indian legal system is quite funny. I must say, for a terrorist that massacred more than a 100 Indians as well as guests of India from different countries, a terrorist of such notoriety has the right to appeal to a courts and ask the president for a pardon!
> 
> As an ex-soldier myself I must say that a pardon of this nature would be an insult to the soldiers of your country who died fighting these terrorists. No court in Europe would ever even consider offering a terrorist the option of a pardon from one of our countries' top leaders



Somebody better remind this guy that most European countries don't have the death penalty.

About the verdict, i'm disappointed to be honest. I would have preferred he would have been given Life imprisonment. Not because i have any sympathy for him, but because i believe that giving the death penalty is immoral.

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## Neither Right Nor Wrong

Parashuram1 said:


> Indian legal system is quite funny. I must say, for a terrorist that massacred more than a 100 Indians as well as guests of India from different countries, a terrorist of such notoriety has the right to appeal to a courts and ask the president for a pardon!
> 
> As an ex-soldier myself I must say that a pardon of this nature would be an insult to the soldiers of your country who died fighting these terrorists. No court in Europe would ever even consider offering a terrorist the option of a pardon from one of our countries' top leaders.
> 
> Laughable!



When on a death row it not the hangman's noose but the "waiting" which kills you. Some lawyers believe its truly *inhumane* to make a person on death row wait for years(and is no less than what he deserves).
Terrorists like Kasab came prepared to die thinking once he embraces "the greater cause" it ll be over within minutes he ll be with his 72 virgins and bowls Biryani enjoying his afterlife.
I say "not so soon".
let him rot in his solitary confinement till he begs for his death. 

In his case appeals are just a formality and his death by hanging a forgone conclusion.

plus laws can not be changed according to convenience of the accused or prosecution.


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## Jackdaws

Firstly, the Indian judicial system is not exactly Texas. Capital punishment is very, very rare. So much so that the last hangman in Bombay or Maharashtra retired in 2004. They will have to get one. And the case will go to High Court and then the Supreme Court. Even then if the sentence is upheld, the President can still grant a pardon. Bottom line - Kasab's gonna be around for another 5 years at least. 

I too am against capital punishment. He might have been brain-washed but that is no excuse - how can you shoot a child? There is something called conscience - he clearly had none. Capital punishment in such a case is apt.


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## Nemesis

It's not about whether he has a conscious or not. Its about whether the society we live in is Humane or not. All this talk of dismembering him from limb to limb, cutting him into little pieces, etc by some members here says otherwise. We as a society profess to be better than those terrorist masterminds and then our anchors celebrate the death sentence as if it is some sort of victory. Finding him guilty is justice. Giving him the death penalty is blood-lust.


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## karan.1970

Nemesis said:


> It's not about whether he has a conscious or not. Its about whether the society we live in is Humane or not. All this talk of dismembering him from limb to limb, cutting him into little pieces, etc by some members here says otherwise. We as a society profess to be better than those terrorist masterminds and then our anchors celebrate the death sentence as if it is some sort of victory. Finding him guilty is justice. Giving him the death penalty is blood-lust.



I dont agree at all to your last statement. The talk of chopping him off etc is all rhetoric and an expression of outrage at what he did. I am sure the members making these suggestions would probably faint if they saw a video of that happeneing. So leaving that aside, why should he not be hanged. ? From where I stand, its no different than killing the terrorists that infiltrate into Kashmir and attack civilians. The deaths he caused were not incidental and they didnt happen by chance. His sole purpose was to kill as many as he could. Why would anyone want to keep him alive. The sole purpose of awarding life sentence instead of death is when there is a hope of rehabilitation. The courts were convinced that there was none here..


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## Bang Galore

Nemesis said:


> Somebody better remind this guy that most European countries don't have the death penalty.
> 
> *About the verdict, i'm disappointed to be honest. I would have preferred he would have been given Life imprisonment. Not because i have any sympathy for him, but because i believe that giving the death penalty is immoral.*



That would have been impossible unless death penalty itself had been abolished. If this case did not merit the imposition of the death penalty, then it would almost become impossible to impose it for any other case under consideration. I am aware that you are stating your position on capital punishment but there could be no doubt of what kind of punishment this guy was going to receive. Judges have no choice but to follow the law.

In societies such as ours where individual liberties are not as prized as in Europe, a life sentence is not necessarily as big a deterrent as it is there. I actually feel that as a country, we execute far fewer people than we should. We also allow politicians to subvert the legal process where by a person sentenced to death is actually given a temporary/permanent reprieve without it being announced as such by dragging out the case for mercy petition. To prevent the hanging of Afzal Guru, the government is sitting on the mercy petitions of the others so as to not undermine their case about the queue.


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## Nemesis

> That would have been impossible unless death penalty itself had been abolished. If this case did not merit the imposition of the death penalty, then it would almost become impossible to impose it for any other case under consideration. I am aware that you are stating your position on capital punishment but there could be no doubt of what kind of punishment this guy was going to receive. Judges have no choice but to follow the law.



Oh i agree, there was no question that he would have gotten the death penalty. If there is a case that fits the "rarest of the rare" criteria, it was him. 

I'm disappointed because i'm personally against the death penalty. 



> leaving that aside, why should he not be hanged. ? From where I stand, its no different than killing the terrorists that infiltrate into Kashmir and attack civilians.



There is a huge difference. Kasab is not a threat anymore. When you're facing a terrorist with a gun, you have every right to take him out. Self defence. Hanging him after he has been found guilty is not self defence. It is an act of vengeance. We as a society should be above such things. 

Instead of celebrating his death sentence and calling it a "victory" for India (Which is quite strange in itself) we should be remembering the victims of that day. 



> Why would anyone want to keep him alive.



So that he doesnt become a martyr. I much rather have him rot in solitary confinement for the rest of his life. Come to think of it, Life imprisonment in solitary confinement is a worse punishment. There is quick release in death. He was prepared to die when he came here, why give him the satisfaction. Let him rot. 



> The sole purpose of awarding life sentence instead of death is when there is a hope of rehabilitation. The courts were convinced that there was none here..



Perhaps, but can you or anybody say that with absolute certainty? Don't forget Kasab is a 22 year old boy. He's even younger than me. All his life he has been brainwashed to kill infidels and go to paradise. Again not defending him but the situation in which he was brought up made him who he was, don't forget that. 

I even could say yes to the death penalty for the masterminds of 26/11, these @##@@@ don't deserve to live for a day. But brainwashed footsoldiers like Kasab? It will serve no purpose to hang him.


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## Parashuram1

Nemesis said:


> Somebody better remind this guy that most European countries don't have the death penalty.
> 
> About the verdict, i'm disappointed to be honest. I would have preferred he would have been given Life imprisonment. Not because i have any sympathy for him, but because i believe that giving the death penalty is immoral.


In European countries, special forces also make it a point to clean out all the scum right away rather than treating them with 2 years of taxpayers' money. A recent report forwarded to me speaks of the volume of money that your government shelled out on this madman. 

Also, European authorities don't get delayed by 10 hours to reach a hostage situation and end up getting 150+ innocent civilians massacred. Heard about the SAS, GSG-9, GIGN? Do check them.

Regarding your opinion about "immorality" of killing terrorists, I'd assume you won't even defend yourself in case of an attack. Your country reserved the right to kill all of these terrorists instantly with minimum casualties to your own. And that didn't happen. 170+ Indians and foreign nationals got massacred, a religious house was decimated, your forces suffered significant casualties, after that your government had to spend taxpayer's money on a terrorist who according to news articles took your system through a roller-coaster of confessions and false denials. 

And then what has happened? Fortunately, our authorities aren't so politically correct as to keep militants alive on taxpayers' money.


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## Adwitiya

MUMBAI: A Jewish centre targeted in Islamist militants' deadly attacks on Mumbai nearly 18 months ago will open a museum honouring the people killed there, it was reported Friday.

Rabbi Nachman Holtzberg, whose son Gavriel and daughter-in-law Rivka were killed in the assault, said a small memorial and educational centre would be created at the five-storey Nariman House complex in the south of the city.

"The fifth floor of the building will be set up exactly the way it was when my son, daughter-in-law and little baby Moshe used to live there," he was quoted as saying by the Mumbai Mirror newspaper.

"Moshe doesn't fully understand what happened but he's happy that there will be a museum in memory of his parents. His room, too, will be re-made as it was before," he told the tabloid by phone from Israel.

"It will have his cot, his toys and a painting made by his parents that now has bullet holes in it."

The daily said some of the couple's belongings that were not destroyed in the attack would also be displayed. An educational centre and synagogue would be housed on other floors, Holtzberg added.

Six people, including the Holtzbergs, were killed when two heavily armed gunman stormed Nariman House on the evening of November 26, 2008.

Run by the US-based orthodox Chabad-Lubavitch movement, the centre, which is still scarred by bullets and fire, operated as an open house for visiting Jews and the local community.

The attack was part of a series of co-ordinated assaults on high-profile targets in Mumbai which left 166 people dead and more than 300 injured.

The only one of the 10 gunman to survive was last week convicted and sentenced to death.

The Holtzberg's son, Moshe, now aged three, escaped the carnage after being plucked to safety by his Indian nanny.

Rabbi Avraham Berkowitz, director of a relief fund set up after the attacks, said last year that the Holtzbergs would have wanted to rebuild Nariman House, making it "stronger and better than before".
 
"That's what we are committed to do... It's for the whole of Mumbai, for the world to show that terror will not prevail and goodness will prevail in the world," he added.


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## Adwitiya

Hope we also keep the pictures of the terrorist killed with their name, photograph, their native and finally their dead bodies pics in the museum too.


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## Mogambo

*What Ratan Tata did for the Mumbai 26/11 victims*

Ratan Tata is the chairman of Indian Hotels who own the Taj Mahal Hotel Mumbai, which was the target of the terrorists on 26/11/08.

Hotel President a 5 star property also belongs to Indian Hotels.

*The following is really touching.*

What Ratan Tata did for the Mumbai victims.... Don't miss!!!!!!

SALUTE TO MR. RATAN TATA 

A. The Tata Gesture 

1. All category of employees including those who had completed even 1 day as casuals were treated on duty during the time the hotel was closed.

2. Relief and assistance to all those who were injured and killed

3. *The relief and assistance was extended to all those who died at the railway station, surroundings including the Pav- Bha ji vendor and the pan shop owners.*

4. During the time the hotel was closed, the salaries were sent by money order.

5. A psychiatric cell was established in collaboration with Tata Institute of Social Sciences to counsel those who needed such help.

6. *The thoughts and anxieties going on peoples mind was constantly tracked and where needed psychological help provided.*

7. Employee outreach centers were opened where all help, food, water, sanitation, first aid and counseling was provided. 1600 employees were covered by this facility.

8. Every employee was assigned to one mentor and it was that persons responsibility to act as a *single window* clearance for any help that the person required.

9. *Ratan Tata personally visited the families of all the 80 employees *who in some manner  either through injury or getting killed  were affected. The family members were touched by this gesture.

10. *The dependents of the employees were flown from outside Mumbai to Mumbai and taken care off in terms of ensuring mental assurance and peace. They were all accommodated in Hotel President for 3 weeks.*

11. Ratan Tata himself asked the families and dependents  as to *what they wanted him to do.*

12. In a record time of 20 days, a new trust was created by the Tatas for the purpose of relief of employees.

13. *What is unique is that even the other people, the railway employees, the police staff, the pedestrians who had nothing to do with Tatas were covered by compensation. Each one of them was provided subsistence allowance of Rs. 10K per month for all these people for 6 months.*

14. *A 4 year old granddaughter of a vendor got 4 bullets in her and only one was removed in the Government hospital. She was taken to Bombay hospital and several lacs were spent by the Tatas on her to fully recover her.*

15. *New hand carts were provided to several street vendors who lost their carts.*

16. *Tata will take responsibility of life education of 46 children of the victims of the terror.*

17. *This was the most trying period in the life of the organization. Senior managers including Ratan Tata were visiting funeral to funeral over the 3 days that were most horrible.*

18. *The settlement for every deceased member ranged from Rs. 36 to 85 lacs [One lakh rupees tranlates to approx 2200 US $ ] in addition to the following benefits:*

a. Full last salary for life for the family and dependents;

b. Complete responsibility of education of children and dependents  anywhere in the world.

c. Full Medical facility for the whole family and dependents for rest of their life.

d. All loans and advances were waived off  irrespective of the amount.

e. Counselor for life for each person

B. Epilogue

1. How was such passion created among the employees? How and why did they behave the way they did?

2. *The organization is clear that it is not something that someone can take credit for. It is not some training and development that created such behaviour. If someone suggests that  everyone laughs*

3. It has to do with the DNA of the organization, with the way Tata culture exists and above all with the situation that prevailed that time. The organization has always been telling that customers and guests are #1 priority

4. *The hotel business was started by Jamshedji Tata when he was insulted in one of the British hotels and not allowed to stay there.*

5. He created several institutions which later became icons of progress, culture and modernity. IISc is one such institute. He was told by the rulers that time that he can acquire land for IISc to the extent he could fence the same. He could afford fencing only 400 acres.

6. When the HR function hesitatingly made a very rich proposal to Ratan  he said  do you think we are doing enough?

7. The whole approach was that the organization would spend several hundred crore in re-building the property  why not spend equally on the employees who gave their life?

*This is NOT COVERED BY Any NEWS CHANNELS !*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## SurvivoR

Apart from all the differences regarding who was responsible for 26/11, I believe it is indeed a highly commendable gesture by Ratan Tata. (if it in fact is true)


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## Bang Galore

*Tata's Open Heart & Purse Strings for ALL Victims of Mumbai Massacre*

Last week, interviewed in the midst of the terror attack, Ratan Tata looked up despairingly at his flagship hotel resounding with the unfamiliar sound of gun-shots, and told journalists that when it came to compensation and help, "We will not be stingy."

Now, Indian Hotels Company (IHC) has gone one step forward. The company is setting up an entirely new trust solely to aid victims of the 26/11 terror attacks.

However this assistance will not be restricted to just staff and guests of those caught in the siege at the Taj, but will be extended to anyone affected by the attacks, be it at CST or Leopold, Cama or the Trident.

"It is not just the victims of the attacks at the hotel who are recuperating at city hospitals who will receive a helping hand from us, but also victims at CST and elsewhere who require any kind of assistance from us," said IHC vice-chairman Krishnakumar who held the first meeting towards setting up of the new trust with Board members on Friday.

In fact the first victim to be assisted has already been identified. According to director, finance, at IHC, Anil Goel, one of the guests at the hotel Jharna Narang, 35,who took five bullets and is battling for her life at Bombay Hospital, will be the first beneficiary.

Jharna lost her parents and her brother in the attack 

Jharna's hospital bills have already run to Rs eight lakh and doctors estimate it to go up to Rs 25 lakh. "We have contacted the relatives of the family and have ensured that they get all the financial help and other assistance they need from us, it's our moral responsibility to do so," said Goel.

He refused to give further details of how the trust would operate and the screening process saying it was too premature to discuss.

At present there are about a 100 people injured in the terror attacks receiving treatment at various hospitals around the city.


*Taj Group forms trust to aid Mumbai terror attack victims*
_December 15th, 2008 - 4:14 pm ICT by IANS _

Mumbai, Dec 15 (IANS) The Taj Group, whose Taj hotel was the prime target of last months terrorist attacks, has set up a public trust to be headed by Ratan Tata to provide aid to terror victims.According to an announcement, the Taj Public Service Welfare Trust will provide immediate relief to all victims of the Nov 26-29 attacks, including the families of those who lost their lives.

The Taj Mahal Palace & Tower Hotel, one of Indias most prestigious hotels, was one of the 13 targets. Ten of its staffers lost their lives while 11 were injured and part of the heritage building was severely damaged.

In addition to providing immediate relief to all victims, including general public security personnel and Taj staffers, the trust will endeavour to cover relief to victims of sudden acts of violence, natural disasters and other tragedies that inflict damages to life and property.

The Indian Hotels Corporation Ltd, which runs the Taj Group of hotels, the Sir Dorab Tata Trust and the Sir Ratan Tata Trust have committed significant initial contribution to the trust.

Apart from Tata group chief Ratan Tata, other trustees are R.K. Krishna Kumar, N.A. Soonawala, R.N. Bickson, A.P. Goel and A. Mukerji.


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## Icarus

Mogambo said:


> *What Ratan Tata did for the Mumbai 26/11 victims*
> 
> Ratan Tata is the chairman of Indian Hotels who own the Taj Mahal Hotel Mumbai, which was the target of the terrorists on 26/11/08.
> 
> Hotel President a 5 star property also belongs to Indian Hotels.
> 
> *The following is really touching.*
> 
> What Ratan Tata did for the Mumbai victims.... Don't miss!!!!!!
> 
> SALUTE TO MR. RATAN TATA
> 
> A. The Tata Gesture
> 
> 1. All category of employees including those who had completed even 1 day as casuals were treated on duty during the time the hotel was closed.
> 
> 2. Relief and assistance to all those who were injured and killed
> 
> 3. *The relief and assistance was extended to all those who died at the railway station, surroundings including the Pav- Bha ji vendor and the pan shop owners.*
> 
> 4. During the time the hotel was closed, the salaries were sent by money order.
> 
> 5. A psychiatric cell was established in collaboration with Tata Institute of Social Sciences to counsel those who needed such help.
> 
> 6. *The thoughts and anxieties going on peoples mind was constantly tracked and where needed psychological help provided.*
> 
> 7. Employee outreach centers were opened where all help, food, water, sanitation, first aid and counseling was provided. 1600 employees were covered by this facility.
> 
> 8. Every employee was assigned to one mentor and it was that persons responsibility to act as a *single window* clearance for any help that the person required.
> 
> 9. *Ratan Tata personally visited the families of all the 80 employees *who in some manner  either through injury or getting killed  were affected. The family members were touched by this gesture.
> 
> 10. *The dependents of the employees were flown from outside Mumbai to Mumbai and taken care off in terms of ensuring mental assurance and peace. They were all accommodated in Hotel President for 3 weeks.*
> 
> 11. Ratan Tata himself asked the families and dependents  as to *what they wanted him to do.*
> 
> 12. In a record time of 20 days, a new trust was created by the Tatas for the purpose of relief of employees.
> 
> 13. *What is unique is that even the other people, the railway employees, the police staff, the pedestrians who had nothing to do with Tatas were covered by compensation. Each one of them was provided subsistence allowance of Rs. 10K per month for all these people for 6 months.*
> 
> 14. *A 4 year old granddaughter of a vendor got 4 bullets in her and only one was removed in the Government hospital. She was taken to Bombay hospital and several lacs were spent by the Tatas on her to fully recover her.*
> 
> 15. *New hand carts were provided to several street vendors who lost their carts.*
> 
> 16. *Tata will take responsibility of life education of 46 children of the victims of the terror.*
> 
> 17. *This was the most trying period in the life of the organization. Senior managers including Ratan Tata were visiting funeral to funeral over the 3 days that were most horrible.*
> 
> 18. *The settlement for every deceased member ranged from Rs. 36 to 85 lacs [One lakh rupees tranlates to approx 2200 US $ ] in addition to the following benefits:*
> 
> a. Full last salary for life for the family and dependents;
> 
> b. Complete responsibility of education of children and dependents  anywhere in the world.
> 
> c. Full Medical facility for the whole family and dependents for rest of their life.
> 
> d. All loans and advances were waived off  irrespective of the amount.
> 
> e. Counselor for life for each person
> 
> B. Epilogue
> 
> 1. How was such passion created among the employees? How and why did they behave the way they did?
> 
> 2. *The organization is clear that it is not something that someone can take credit for. It is not some training and development that created such behaviour. If someone suggests that  everyone laughs*
> 
> 3. It has to do with the DNA of the organization, with the way Tata culture exists and above all with the situation that prevailed that time. The organization has always been telling that customers and guests are #1 priority
> 
> 4. *The hotel business was started by Jamshedji Tata when he was insulted in one of the British hotels and not allowed to stay there.*
> 
> 5. He created several institutions which later became icons of progress, culture and modernity. IISc is one such institute. He was told by the rulers that time that he can acquire land for IISc to the extent he could fence the same. He could afford fencing only 400 acres.
> 
> 6. When the HR function hesitatingly made a very rich proposal to Ratan  he said  do you think we are doing enough?
> 
> 7. The whole approach was that the organization would spend several hundred crore in re-building the property  why not spend equally on the employees who gave their life?
> 
> *This is NOT COVERED BY Any NEWS CHANNELS !*



Tata truly is a fine gentleman, It seems he still hasn't forgotten his humble beginnings, I am surprised at his humility, he did all this yet still did not boast about it or complain about the lack of acknowledgement, my respect for Mr. Tata has been multiplied ten fold.


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## Kinetic

I really liked the family. They are the best business family in India. They have a great history from Jamshedji Tata to Ratan Tata to make India industrially strong. I am happy to see what he as done for the victims. 

I wish this should be the relationship between every company's top brass and employees.


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## IndianArmy

I have been saluting many officers through out my carrier, but the One who really deserves it has not got it, Its really sad for me, I salute That Gentle man

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## EjazR

*Press Pak to bring Mumbai accused to book: Indian MPs to US - Express India*

Washington A delegation of Indian lawmakers have asked Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to press Pakistan to bring Mumbai
attack accused like Hafiz Saeed and Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi to book and ensure that Islamabad does not divert US aid for anti-India activities.

The delegation led by Congress spokesperson Abhishek Manu Singhvi met Clinton here and also expressed concern over the proposed China-Pakistan nuclear deal.

The visiting MPs also raised these issues during a series of meetings with Congressmen, policy makers and officials of the Obama Administration.

"We expressed our very strong concerns about dispensable assets like Hafiz Saeed and Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi in Pakistan against whom there is a very strong credible enormous dossier of evidence supplied to both Pakistan and the US, about why the US should not use the stronger pressure to ensure that such assets are at least brought to book under the law of the land and not only cosmetically dealt with by local courts in Pakistan, who acquit them," Singhvi said soon after his meeting with Clinton.

The MPs delegation, Singhvi said, also raised a number of concerns about how China's supplying of nuclear plants to Pakistan might be in contravention of guidelines of the Nuclear Suppliers Group.

They alsourged the US to ensure Pakistan does not allow its soil to be used for anti-India activities.

"We also expressed our serious concerns about misusing US aid by Pakistan and diverting it for anti-India activities, and how much micro-scrutiny can be done by the US to ensure that the legitimate aid does not get diverted for anti-India purposes," said the Congress leader.

Singhvi is leading a group of all-party MPs to attend the fourth India-Yale Parliamentary Leadership Programme organised annually by the Yale University and the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI).

He said the response of American officials to India's concerns has been "understanding, sympathetic, and absorbent".

"They appreciated each of the concerns of India in a detailed manner. All I can say is that they are extremely alive to it and I think, we can expect without any timelines, guarantees and assurances, very very positive action aligned with India's concerns on each of these issues," he told reporters.

When asked about American concerns if any, Singhvi said the US concerns are mainly centered around a larger security architecture for the whole of South Asia.

"I think this is an important achievement that there is no hyphenation of India-Pak relations for the US. The hyphen if at all has shifted further westwards between Pakistan and Afghanistan. That is a positive sign," he said.

Singhvi said the US officials are alive to the fact that India plays fully its "rightful role" in a constructive solution on the ****** problem.

"And that India is very much part of that process as well," he said.

Singhvi said the US is very highly appreciative of the positive role played by the Indian government in improving its relationship with Pakistan.

"There is a great appreciation of the fact that the Government of India and the Prime Minister have reached out within the constraints and within the overall Indian foreign policy and I think the US Government intends to put its best foot forward to make sure that the process goes in the right direction, at the right pace, and it is not easily allowed to be sabotaged by elements which want it to be sabotaged," he said.

The delegation includes two Union Ministers of State  Ajay Maken and Agatha Sangma -- besides Anto Antony, Gaddam Vivekanand, Pradeep Majhi from the Congress; Jyoti Dhurve and Janardhana Swamy from the BJP; Harsimrat Kaur Badal (Shiromani Akali Dal); Bhartruhari Mahtab (Biju Janata Dal); Asaduddin Owaisi (All India Majlis-e Ittihad al-Muslimin); and Neeraj Shekhar (Samajwadi Party).

FICCI president Rajan Bharati Mittal and the secretary general Amit Mitra, were also present during the delegation's meeting with Clinton held at the Foggy Bottom headquarters of the State Department.


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## Spring Onion

They should first press Ms Clinton and US to bring Headly to India


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## Avatar

Jana said:


> They should first press Ms Clinton and US to bring Headly to India



We dont want Headley. We already wasting lot of money on keeping Kasab. 

Tell me, when Pakistan has accepted that the terrorists belonged to Pakistani soil, along with the planning and execution of the episode, then why is Pakistan so reluctant to arrest those who are accused ? 
Why the drama of being sincere ?


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## Comet

So India thinks that by bringing the likes of Hafiz Saeed to "justice" will make them secure?

I am sorry, But I do not agree. As long as there are atrocities against people of Kashmir, India cannot have security.

My Chawwanni!!!


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## foxbat

umairp said:


> My intentions are peaceful. I am merely pointing out at the root cause.



I agree that the root cause is the Kashmir dispute. However Pakistan is not blameless here in the deaths of the Kashmiri civilians. So if you really want to be peaceful, call spade a spade.


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## Justin Joseph

This effort will not bring immediate result but this type of campaign but NGOs, diplomats and media can raise the pressure day by day then we will reach a stage that it will be very difficult for the enemy to face the world community.


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## desiman

umairp said:


> So India thinks that by bringing the likes of Hafiz Saeed to "justice" will make them secure?
> 
> I am sorry, But I do not agree. As long as there are atrocities against people of Kashmir, India cannot have security.
> 
> My Chawwanni!!!



keep your chawwanni to yourself, if Pakistan continues its support to terrorist organizations, India will also not sit and watch, we can give it back in the same way my friend.


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## iiindian

umairp said:


> My intentions are peaceful. I am merely pointing out at the root cause.



If so stop supporting terrorists (dont say you are not coz its a fact)
make loc as ib.
then india can reduce pak specific defence budget and army presence and concentrate on development.when there is peace tourism and othe industries will automaticaly grow in both kashmirs.then the remaining minorities who are protesting now will also be change their stand.


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## Comet

foxbat said:


> I agree that the root cause is the Kashmir dispute. However Pakistan is not blameless here in the deaths of the Kashmiri civilians. So if you really want to be peaceful, call spade a spade.



So you do agree that India _is_ responsible for atrocities in IoK?

State sponsored or not, India will face the like of Hafiz Saeed as long is Kashmir is a dispute.


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## Comet

desiman said:


> keep your chawwanni to yourself, if Pakistan continues its support to terrorist organizations, *India will also not sit and watch*, we can give it back in the same way my friend.



So India will continue to kill civilians in IoK? Why I am not surprised?


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## Comet

iiindian said:


> If so stop supporting terrorists (dont say you are not coz its a fact)
> *make loc as ib*.
> then india can reduce pak specific defence budget and army presence and concentrate on development.when there is peace tourism and othe industries will automaticaly grow in both kashmirs.then the remaining minorities who are protesting now will also be change their stand.



And what about Kashmiris? Have you asked them to turn LOC into IB?


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## desiman

umairp said:


> So India will continue to kill civilians in IoK? Why I am not surprised?



did i say that ? dont try to politicize this topic, your first post was totally in favor of terrorism and my point is that if Pakistan does not stop its relentless support of terrorist activities in India, we can answer back in the same language. India is patient in its approach but our patience isnt limitless.


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## desiman

umairp said:


> And what about Kashmiris? Have you asked them to turn LOC into IB?



stop worrying about Kashmir, its none of Pakistan's business, Kashmir is India's domestic issue, Pakistan's involvement is not required or needed. Pakistan already has more on its plate than it can swallow.


----------



## Comet

desiman said:


> did i say that ? dont try to politicize this topic, your first post was totally *in favor of terrorism* and my point is that if Pakistan does not stop its relentless support of terrorist activities in India, we can answer back in the same language. India is patient in its approach but our patience isnt limitless.



No, My post was not in favor. I was merely pointing out the fact that people like Hafiz Saeed will continue to emerge as long as Kashmiris are suffering.


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## Comet

desiman said:


> stop worrying about Kashmir, its none of Pakistan's business, Kashmir is India's domestic issue, Pakistan's involvement is not required or needed. Pakistan already has more on its plate than it can swallow.



Sir, with due respect, Kashmir is totally Pakistan's business and its not India's domestic issue. This is where you are wrong. And who are you to decide what Pakistan should have and what shouldn't?

We Don't Need Kashmir. We want peaceful settlement of this issue. But it looks like India is not willing to end this.


----------



## desiman

umairp said:


> No, My post was not in favor. I was merely pointing out the fact that people like Hafiz Saeed will continue to emerge as long as Kashmiris are suffering.



This Kashmir is suffering propaganda is created by the Pakistani media and politicians to get their own people emotional about this subject. But the reality is that Indian Kashmir is 10 times in better condition than the so called " Azad Kashmir" which has seen many protest against the Pakistani government discriminatory laws. Indian Kashmir has seen a lot of growth in the past 5 years and that growth will continue if Pakistan does not create another roadblock. Please research and compare both Kashmir's before you do that usual " Kashmir is suffering" argument. The only reason Kashmiri's today are at a discomfort is because of the heavy presence of the army which is required to crush the terrorist Pakistan sends across the border.


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## desiman

umairp said:


> Sir, with due respect, Kashmir is totally Pakistan's business and its not India's domestic issue. This is where you are wrong. And who are you to decide what Pakistan should have and what shouldn't?
> 
> We Don't Need Kashmir. We want peaceful settlement of this issue. But it looks like India is not willing to end this.



a peaceful settlement is only possible if Pakistan accepts the LOC as the international border. India has made it clear that it does not intend to talk about Kashmir with Pakistan as its not an international issue. Is Pakistan ready to give up Azad Kashmir also ? Peaceful solutions are only possible when both parties get a fair deal. For Pakistan its best to bury this issue and focus on the betterment of its own people, continued stress on this issue has only lead Pakistan down. India has no problem in maintaining its army in the area as our economy permits us to do that. This issue has for long suppressed Pakistan from growing and its time Pakistanis see that its leading them no where. We are willing to end this, accept the LOC as the international border, start trading with us, and lets form a strong south Asia. This is the best option for both of us.


----------



## Comet

desiman said:


> This Kashmir is suffering propaganda is created by the Pakistani media and politicians to get their own people emotional about this subject. But the reality is that Indian Kashmir is 10 times in better condition than the so called " Azad Kashmir" which has seen many protest against the Pakistani government discriminatory laws. Indian Kashmir has seen a lot of growth in the past 5 years and that growth will continue if Pakistan does not create another roadblock. Please research and compare both Kashmir's before you do that usual " Kashmir is suffering" argument. The only reason Kashmiri's today are at a discomfort is because of the heavy presence of the army which is required to crush the terrorist Pakistan sends across the border.




hahahaha.....

This will continue for a long time. There are numerous threads out there that explain Kashmir issue at length. Should we limit our argument to current news and try to avoid revisiting history?


----------



## desiman

I respect your attitude Umairp but our opinions will always wary on this very sensitive issue, India wants to see Pakistan grow and we also want a strong south Asia but for that this issue must end now before its too late. For you and me personally, wont it be great if you can come to India and i can go to Pakistan one day for a visit without any problems. If Pakistan and India can form a Canada-US type relationship, there are few forces in the world that can stop us. The future of our next generation looks much more bright with such a scenario.

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## desiman

umairp said:


> hahahaha.....
> 
> This will continue for a long time. There are numerous threads out there that explain Kashmir issue at length. Should we limit our argument to current news and try to avoid revisiting history?



yes it has been but the end result is the same, you leave us alone and we leave you alone is the best option.


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## Comet

desiman said:


> a peaceful settlement is only possible if Pakistan accepts the LOC as the international border. India has made it clear that it does not intend to talk about Kashmir with Pakistan as its not an international issue. Is Pakistan ready to give up Azad Kashmir also ? Peaceful solutions are only possible when both parties get a fair deal. For Pakistan its best to bury this issue and focus on the betterment of its own people, continued stress on this issue has only lead Pakistan down. India has no problem in maintaining its army in the area as our economy permits us to do that. This issue has for long suppressed Pakistan from growing and its time Pakistanis see that its leading them no where. We are willing to end this, accept the *LOC as the international border*, start trading with us, and lets form a strong south Asia. This is the best option for both of us.




We are not the ones to decide whether to convert LoC into IB or not. It is the decision must be taken by Kashmiris. You people surely have the mentality to suppress the people. 

And Yes we are planning to let for of Kashmir if there is a way. Remember Musharaf Regime gave options to think out of box.


----------



## username

desiman said:


> keep your chawwanni to yourself, if Pakistan continues its support to terrorist organizations, India will also not sit and watch, we can give it back *in the same way my friend*.



in the same way ?


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## desiman

umairp said:


> We are not the ones to decide whether to convert LoC into IB or not. It is the decision must be taken by Kashmiris. You people surely have the mentality to suppress the people.
> 
> And Yes we are planning to let for of Kashmir if there is a way. *Remember Musharaf Regime gave options to think out of box.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> and they also did Kargil before that, dont you think that sending mixed signals lol Ulta choor kutwal ko dante


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## Avatar

umairp said:


> So India thinks that by bringing the likes of Hafiz Saeed to "justice" will make them secure?
> 
> I am sorry, But I do not agree. As long as there are atrocities against people of Kashmir, India cannot have security.
> 
> My Chawwanni!!!



You are saying that you will continue to sponsor, support and provide a safe haven to terrorists until India does not *hand over* Kashmir to Pakistan, rank 5th failed nation. 

This game can be played two ways and it will not be good for either side, especially for your side.


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## SEAL

Jithy waikho Indian roona dhona.


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## mjnaushad

Why don't you guys just caution us just like you did to china on nuclear deal.?


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## mjnaushad

Avatar said:


> You are saying that you will continue to sponsor, support and provide a safe haven to terrorists until India does not *hand over* Kashmir to Pakistan, rank 5th failed nation.
> 
> This game can be played two ways and it will not be good for either side, especially for your side.


I wonder why you are on that ranked fifth failed state website? You should go to up coming super power (In dreams) websites. We do got something that people from all over the world come to see what happening in our 5th number failed state. 

BTW i read a new article on poverty. you wanna read.


----------



## SpArK

*India sends 11th Mumbai attacks dossier to Pakistan*


Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


NEW DELHI: New Delhi on Friday handed over the 11th dossier on the Mumbai attacks in response to Pakistans queries on the incident, and conveyed its mounting unhappiness over Islamabads lack of concrete action against the attacks mastermind  Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LT) founder Hafiz Saeed.

The dossier contains not only responses to the queries but also additional information on those involved in the attack, Indian External Affairs Ministry spokesman Vishnu Prakash told reporters. 

It is the 11th dossier given to Pakistan on 26/11, he said, pointing out that it was handed over to Pakistan Deputy High Commissioner Riffat Masood by YK Sinha, the Indian joint secretary in-charge of Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan. The deputy high commissioner of Pakistan was called in this afternoon and handed over a set of responses to the six dossiers received from Pakistan on April 25 on the Mumbai terror attacks, the spokesman said. He, however, did not divulge details of the dossier.

Separately, Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit confirmed that the Indian Ministry of External Affairs had handed over the latest dossier to Masood in New Delhi. Arrangements are being made for the receipt of the material from New Delhi, Basit said according to a press statement. 

The material will be forwarded to the Interior Ministry for examination when received, the statement added. Talking to a private television channel, Basit reiterated Islamabads firm stance that all those involved in the Mumbai attacks would be brought to justice.

iftikhar gilani/app


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## desiman

BENNY said:


> *India sends 11th Mumbai attacks dossier to Pakistan*
> 
> 
> Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
> 
> 
> NEW DELHI: New Delhi on Friday handed over the 11th dossier on the Mumbai attacks in response to Pakistans queries on the incident, and conveyed its mounting unhappiness over Islamabads lack of concrete action against the attacks mastermind  Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LT) founder Hafiz Saeed.
> 
> The dossier contains not only responses to the queries but also additional information on those involved in the attack, Indian External Affairs Ministry spokesman Vishnu Prakash told reporters.
> 
> It is the 11th dossier given to Pakistan on 26/11, he said, pointing out that it was handed over to Pakistan Deputy High Commissioner Riffat Masood by YK Sinha, the Indian joint secretary in-charge of Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan. The deputy high commissioner of Pakistan was called in this afternoon and handed over a set of responses to the six dossiers received from Pakistan on April 25 on the Mumbai terror attacks, the spokesman said. He, however, did not divulge details of the dossier.
> 
> Separately, Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit confirmed that the Indian Ministry of External Affairs had handed over the latest dossier to Masood in New Delhi. Arrangements are being made for the receipt of the material from New Delhi, Basit said according to a press statement.
> 
> The material will be forwarded to the Interior Ministry for examination when received, the statement added. Talking to a private television channel, Basit reiterated Islamabads firm stance that all those involved in the Mumbai attacks would be brought to justice.
> 
> iftikhar gilani/app



Wont make a difference, falling on deaf and conspiracy theory obsessed ears. People who think that Ajmal Kasab is Amar Singh and that Pakistan has never supported terrorism will write this report of as either being totally useless or being another Zionist/Hindu/american propaganda. What a waste of paper.


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## Just Yash

Useless paper work....


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## Creder

Do we have a paper recycling industry ? I think This is good business

anyways this is pointless mayn you know we're not gonna do anything even if you get the US to play ball we still won't

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## desiman

Creder said:


> Do we have a paper recycling industry ? I think This is good business
> 
> anyways this is pointless mayn you know we're not gonna do anything even if you get the US to play ball we still won't



we very well know, we gave up on hoping for change from Pakistan after Kargil. Its a mere formality now.


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## Creder

Glad you did


----------



## WAQAS119

*Bhagwan Mujhay Kabhi Maaf Nahi karay ga*.....lol



Asim Aquil said:


> *3:12*... Did he say "*Bhagwaan*" mujhe nahi maaf karega?
> 
> BHAGWAAN? Hindu God? I would've thought a radical terrorist would say Allah!
> 
> He took no names?





Windjammer said:


> Guys check this out, the accent, the terminology, and this person is supposed to be Punjabi.
> 
> YouTube - Exclusive: The Kasab Confession Part - 3

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## IndianArmy

WAQAS119 said:


> *Bhagwan Mujhay Kabhi Maaf Nahi karay ga*.....lol



Hamare Police jail mein do din rahoge na, to, Bhagwan Kya, Apni nani bhi yaad ajayegi.... .... Anyways a terrorist has No religion, Terrorists are Exploiting the name Islam, I Owe to muslims a Lot...

*A Person Who does Namaz 5 times a day cannot even kill an ant, leave alone a Bunch of human beings...*

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## Avatar

WAQAS119 said:


> *Bhagwan Mujhay Kabhi Maaf Nahi karay ga*.....lol



Your deny a fact that your own government accepts. How preposterous. He was trained to speak in Mumbai accent and obviously knew words in Hindi to fool the investigators. He even tried speaking in Marathi. If he was fake we could have made him say whatever we wanted.


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## mjnaushad

Avatar said:


> Your deny a fact that your own government accepts. How preposterous. He was trained to speak in Mumbai accent and obviously knew words in Hindi to fool the investigators. He even tried speaking in Marathi. If he was fake we could have made him say whatever we wanted.


He was trained to speak in mumbai accent just to fire AK47.... 

It was fake and you did made him say whatever you wanted. Though not everything was perfect. Try hard next time.


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## SBD-3

WAQAS119 said:


> *Bhagwan Mujhay Kabhi Maaf Nahi karay ga*.....lol



also hum ko um bol raha hay....is he a Punjabi?.....he is not punjabi...we all know Punjabi accent.....I 'mean they should ve trained him also on speaking proper Punjabi accent.


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## SBD-3

jehadi ka matlab kaya hay......I dont know....."he doesn't know"


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## notsuperstitious

Creder said:


> Do we have a paper recycling industry ? I think This is good business
> 
> anyways this is pointless mayn you know we're not gonna do anything even if you get the US to play ball we still won't



Thats what I think too.

So knowingly defending / protecting terrorists is supporting terrorism. I'm glad at least some of you are candid enough to admit what your government is following in practice anyway.

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## bluefox

mjnaushad said:


> He was trained to speak in mumbai accent just to fire AK47....
> 
> It was fake and you did made him say whatever you wanted. Though not everything was perfect.* Try hard next time.*



What should someone try hard next tym??
Ur Pm,President,police,ISI,Military all accept the fact that they were super pakistani terrrorists.U better try hard next tym and get *some real evidence on balouch*...ok


----------



## bluefox

hasnain0099 said:


> also hum ko um bol raha hay....is he a Punjabi?.....he is not punjabi...we all know Punjabi accent.....I 'mean they should ve trained him also on speaking proper Punjabi accent.



How much of ur punjabi accent influence ur english??Do u call a dog "Aa DAAG"???


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## bluefox

WAQAS119 said:


> *Bhagwan Mujhay Kabhi Maaf Nahi karay ga*.....lol



Originally Posted by Asim Aquil 
3:12... Did he say "Bhagwaan" mujhe nahi maaf karega?

BHAGWAAN? Hindu God? I would've thought a radical terrorist would say Allah!

He took no names?

* may be after the henious crimes he has done to please allah and in the name of allah n jehad he realiased his faults and lost faith in ALLAH .that may be the reason for him saying bhagwaan*

speaking on a lighter tone bhagwaan is not any hindu god bhagwaan it self means god in hindi,n a person speking in india would usually speak in dialect bolthey hein naa jaisi desh waisi bhes...


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## DESERT FIGHTER

bluefox said:


> Originally Posted by Asim Aquil
> 3:12... Did he say "Bhagwaan" mujhe nahi maaf karega?
> 
> BHAGWAAN? Hindu God? I would've thought a radical terrorist would say Allah!



Every MUSLIM would say Allah.


> He took no names?
> 
> * may be after the henious crimes he has done to please allah and in the name of allah n jehad he realiased his faults and lost faith in ALLAH .that may be the reason for him saying bhagwaan*



Yeah he wasnt a GOOD MUSLIM thts why he did all tht killing and after tht converted to hinduism>?

Got impressed with the caste system and all.


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## illuminatidinesh

Stupid Dossier and useless thread.... 
Complete waste of time


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## SBD-3

bluefox said:


> How much of ur punjabi accent influence ur english??Do u call a dog "Aa DAAG"???



well I am not an Indian to speak English in Desi accent......tum logo nay humain bhee badnam kiya hua hay.....and btw hez not speaking English you 1st grader


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## anti.terrorism

why india is sending dossier to pakistan. it's totally wasting of time and money, they will never reply u. they will never do any thing against terrorism and it's clear after zardari and terroist leader meeting in jail.

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## mjnaushad

anti.terrorism said:


> why india is sending dossier to pakistan. it's totally wasting of time and money, they will never reply u. they will never do any thing against terrorism and it's clear *after zardari and terroist leader meeting in jail*.



Been discussed to death.....

And the report is nothing more than propaganda........

Looks like we have another Indian media addict.

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## Agnostic_Indian

mjnaushad said:


> Been discussed to death.....
> 
> And the report is nothing more than propaganda........
> 
> Looks like we have another Indian media addict.



When india accused that kasab is a pakistani, pak govt and media denied it and projected it as a propaganda.then finally they had to accept the bitter truth.same will happen with hafeez zaieyd.


----------



## Agnostic_Indian

umairp said:


> And what about Kashmiris? Have you asked them to turn LOC into IB?


We have a democraticaly elected govt there in kashmir.The participation of kashmiris in election is the sign of their unity with india.


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## SMC

iiindian said:


> *If so stop supporting terrorists (dont say you are not coz its a fact)*
> make loc as ib.
> then india can reduce pak specific defence budget and army presence and concentrate on development.when there is peace tourism and othe industries will automaticaly grow in both kashmirs.then the remaining minorities who are protesting now will also be change their stand.



Where is the proof of that?


----------



## SMC

bhagathsingh said:


> When india accused that kasab is a pakistani, pak govt and media denied it and projected it as a propaganda.then finally they had to accept the bitter truth.same will happen with hafeez zaieyd.



You deserve a massive facepalm for comparing what happened with Kasab and GoP accepting him as a Pakistani with the LSE report.


----------



## anti.terrorism

mjnaushad said:


> Been discussed to death.....
> 
> And the report is nothing more than propaganda........
> 
> Looks like we have another Indian media addict.



india media never make this big issue.....bcoz they was also feeling shame to publish this news....


----------



## Agnostic_Indian

Concentration of power in one
hand against democracy:
Terrorists of today heroes of
past: Asif
* President says militancy nurtured
by past policies
* Claims militants were created
deliberately to achieve short-term
objectives
Staff Report
ISLAMABAD: The terrorists of
today were the heroes of
yesteryear until 9/11 brought
things into a new light, President
Asif Ali Zardari said on Tuesday.
The president was addressing a
gathering of retired federal
secretaries and senior bureaucrats
at the Presidency as part of the
consultative process with different
sections of society to deliberate
on the issues and challenges
facing the country.
Let us be truthful to ourselves
and make a candid admission of
the realities, Zardari said with
reference to an observation that
the weakness of the civil
bureaucracy had resulted in the
emergence of militants and
militancy.
Deliberate creation: Militancy and
extremism emerged on the
national scene and challenged the
state not because the civil
bureaucracy was weakened and
demoralised, but because they
were deliberately created and
nurtured as a policy to achieve
some short-term tactical
objectives, he said.
The president touched on a
number of issues that were raised
by the former bureaucrats.


----------



## Agnostic_Indian

SMC said:


> You deserve a massive facepalm for comparing what happened with Kasab and GoP accepting him as a Pakistani with the LSE report.



Sir,I compared it because in both cases pak govt said evidence is not enough.You want india to provide all the evidence rather than investigate for more by them selves.After all he is in pak not in india.


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## xenia

i think the contents of these dossiers should b made pubic..india provides "info" n pakistan cant find it in the dossier!communication gap n its 11th dossier..OMG y cant RAW do all homework in one go??how many more to come??hope they stop coming before we get old!


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## anathema

Why do we even bother ? Why do we even do this publicity in front of the world of handing down the dossiers ? What are we going to get ? zilch, nada , nill...If pakistan doesnt believe it themselves then no amount of proof's or dossiers is going to make them believe...

Instead of doing this buffonery we should actively put thoughts on how to eliminate/execute the criminals covertly ... let it be made known that there is no safe haven for the criminals ...*And this is precisely why i (and most of my indian brothers) adore Israel , a point that is lost on Pakistanis.*..No need of this proof's , its just not going to cut it !!

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## BATMAN

What else Pakistan should expect? A private interview with Ajmal Kasai&#8230;!!!!! like the one US granted to Indinas with David Headly?

I don't trust that Zardari would request some thing similar from Indinas????


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## MilesTogo

I am of the view that we should deport Kasab back to Pakistan.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

MilesTogo said:


> I am of the view that we should deport Kasab back to Pakistan.



He'll be given a hero's welcome just like that Lockerbie bomber was given in Libya.


----------



## mjnaushad

Bombensturm said:


> He'll be given a hero's welcome just like that Lockerbie bomber was given in Libya.


I Welcome U to the forum.....However the correct procedure is that you open a new thread in "Members introduction" section and introduce yourself.


----------



## mjnaushad

bhagathsingh said:


> Sir,I compared it because in both cases pak govt said evidence is not enough.You want india to provide all the evidence rather than investigate for more by them selves.After all he is in pak not in india.


Investigation took place by following evidence. Capice??


----------



## Spring Onion

Creder said:


> Do we have a paper recycling industry ? I think This is good business
> 
> anyways this is pointless mayn you know we're not gonna do anything even if you get the US to play ball we still won't



 yup alot of recycling


----------



## Spring Onion

Bombensturm said:


> He'll be given a hero's welcome just like that Lockerbie bomber was given in Libya.



Just like Kashmir Singh was given in India ???

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## Agnostic_Indian

mjnaushad said:


> Investigation took place by following evidence. Capice??



And whats the out come ?


----------



## WAQAS119

Jana said:


> Just like Kashmir Singh was given in India ???



Kashmir Singh arrives home, gets a hero's welcome - India News - IBNLive


----------



## MilesTogo

I mean he is like a military hardware which is unlikely to be used again. So what is the point in punishing an exhausted military hardware.


----------



## mjnaushad

bhagathsingh said:


> And whats the out come ?


Give us the evidence and we'll follow it and if anybody found guilty will be dealt according to the law...


----------



## r3alist

just goes to show that the other 10 were so useless india still trying to scrape the barrel, what now, the attackers used pakistani toothpaste?


----------



## SpArK

*Headley input on LeT chief added to fresh 26/11 dossier​*

NEW DELHI: In the 11th dossier handed over to Pakistan since the 26/11 attack, India has provided details on the 34 terrorists, including fugitives who have been recruited by the ISI-Lashkar combine to launch terror attacks as part of the Karachi Project, in the form suggested by Pakistan. 

India gave Pakistan the full copy of the Mumbai trial, a copy of the verdict, the chargesheets, evidence presented and used, and confessional statements. Pakistan had asked India for all of these in its last dossier. The Hafiz Saeed evidence, Indian officials feel, is crucial. Although nobody was willing to confirm it, it's believed the Indians have got this from the David Headley interrogations. 

The Indian responses, coming just ahead of the second foreign secretary-level talks scheduled in Islamabad on June 24, are expected to set the ground for meaningful talks on terrorism with Pakistan. Home minister P Chidambaram will also be in Islamabad for the first home ministers' talks on June 26. 

"The deputy high commissioner of Pakistan was called in the afternoon and handed over a set of responses to the six dossiers received from Pakistan on April 25, 2010 on the Mumbai terror attacks," MEA spokesperson Vishnu Prakash said.


----------



## SpArK

*Pak to examine Indian dossier before FS level talks​* 
Rezaul H Laskar 







Islamabad, Jun 19 (PTI) Pakistan's Interior Ministry will examine the eleventh dossier handed over to Islamabad by India on the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks ahead of a crucial meeting of the Foreign Secretaries to bridge the trust deficit between the two countries.

Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit said in a brief statement that arrangements were being made for "receipt of the material from New Delhi".

He said: "The material will be forwarded to the Interior Ministry for examination when received." 

Talking to a TV news channel, Basit said the Pakistan government is of the firm opinion that whosoever was involved in the Mumbai attacks should be punished.

"Pakistan is conducting the trial of the accused on its soil in a transparent and professional way and the recently extended evidence by Indian authorities would be 
analysed appropriately," he said.


fullstory


----------



## Agnostic_Indian

mjnaushad said:


> Give us the evidence and we'll follow it and if anybody found guilty will be dealt according to the law...


Thats where my point is..pak govt should investigate and produce enough evidence before the court if the evidence given by india is not sufficient.


----------



## Agnostic_Indian

r3alist said:


> just goes to show that the other 10 were so useless india still trying to scrape the barrel, what now, the attackers used pakistani toothpaste?



you mean mumbai attackers were not pakistani's ?


----------



## Awesome

lol India is handing over chits and counting them as dossiers. Dude, India has been asked to come and prosecute the people in Pakistan

Stop giving us a monkey and dugdugi tamasha, if you're serious about bringing justice do what is being asked of you. Handover this n that is not going to suffice.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

bhagathsingh said:


> Thats where my point is..pak govt should investigate and produce enough evidence before the court if the evidence given by india is not sufficient.



Crime took place in india against indians..... why should we investigate it? if u want us to do so ... give us acces to kasab?we should provide him a lawyer, and send our intl agency guys to india to investigate the crime scene etc...And have full access to everything...we can arrest our citizens for anything... hell we sent special flights to krgzstan to bring our people and even thier krgz origin families back.... *u think we will hand over our citizen to india without any evidence ?* Must be jokin...

Can u investigate Samjhota express where several Pakistani citizens were burnt alive in a train?in which ur indian army officers and hindu extremists were involved? have they been punished?


----------



## Frankenstein

IndianArmy said:


> Hamare Police jail mein do din rahoge na, to, Bhagwan Kya, Apni nani bhi yaad ajayegi.... .... Anyways a terrorist has No religion, Terrorists are Exploiting the name Islam, I Owe to muslims a Lot...
> 
> *A Person Who does Namaz 5 times a day cannot even kill an ant, leave alone a Bunch of human beings...*



awesome post


----------



## Frankenstein

MilesTogo said:


> I am of the view that we should deport Kasab back to Pakistan.



We will deport em back to India, cuz he is an India, story of his life will be like a tennis ball bouncing on both sides


----------



## SpArK

*Chidambaram to brief Pakistan about Headley disclosures*


Union Home Minister P. Chidambaram will travel to Pakistan next week armed with a mandate to brief his counterpart there about some of the information Indian investigators have gleaned from their recent interrogation in Chicago of Lashkar-e-Taiba operative David Coleman Headley.

*At its meeting here on Sunday night, the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) once again endorsed Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's broad approach towards trust-building and dialogue with Pakistan*. Mr. Chidambaram, who will travel to Pakistan on June 25 for a meeting of Saarc Interior Ministers, will also have a bilateral meeting with the Pakistani Interior Minister Rehman Malik on the sidelines.

&#8220;He is not going there to talk about the resumption of dialogue,&#8221; the sources said, &#8220;but the CCS has asked him to update Mr. Malik on what all has happened in India on the November 2008 Mumbai terrorist attack.&#8221; *In addition, he will brief the Pakistani side about some of the disclosures Headley has made about his connections with LeT handlers and others, most probably in a one-on-one meeting without the presence of other officials.
*
*The &#8216;voluminous' documentation India handed over to Pakistan last week contains detailed responses to all the questions which Islamabad had raised in a set of dossiers on April 25, official sources said*. *In those, Pakistan had made certain requests for information and testimony that it said were required in order to properly prosecute the LeT men standing trial in a Rawalpindi court for their role in the Mumbai attack. &#8220;We have sent them all the documentation to do with the confession of Ajmal Kasab, including from the magistrate and investigating officer, and we feel it is not necessary for them to appear in court in Pakistan,&#8221; the sources said. &#8220;Let us see what their response is.&#8221; In its latest dossier, India has also cited specific provisions of the Indian Penal Code that it believes LeT chief Hafiz Saeed has violated, including waging war.
*
*Based on Mr. Chidambaram's interaction with the Pakistani side, the government would be in a better position to assess how sincere Islamabad is being in implementing the commitment *Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani made to Dr. Singh in Thimphu in April about not allowing anti-India terrorists to use Pakistan's soil to stage attacks, the sources said.

Asked whether some kind of interaction between the National Investigation Agency and Pakistan's Federal Investigation Agency could help build trust, the sources said the response Mr. Chidambaram got &#8220;would help us to focus on what steps we could take to build trust at the institutional level.&#8221; What India wanted was &#8220;productive engagement,&#8221; something that was absent from the erstwhile Joint Anti-Terror Mechanism, they added.

The sources said the Indian side was not going to Pakistan &#8220;with a digital scale in [its hand].&#8221; &#8220;We are genuine when we say dialogue should resume and concerns on terror should be dealt with &#8230; Let us not prejudge the outcome.&#8221;

OPEN MIND

*Asked about Kashmir, the sources said India had an open mind and was &#8220;fully prepared to discuss contentious issues if Pakistan raises them, with confidence.&#8221; They stressed that all issues fell within the scope of the Foreign Secretary-level discussions that would take place on June 24. &#8220;Whether it is water, peace and security, confidence building measures &#8230; We are looking at the whole relationship as an integrated subject.&#8221;*


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

mjnaushad said:


> I Welcome U to the forum.....However the correct procedure is that you open a new thread in "Members introduction" section and introduce yourself.



Thank you,i'm on it.


----------



## Agnostic_Indian

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Crime took place in india against indians..... why should we investigate it? if u want us to do so ... give us acces to kasab?we should provide him a lawyer, and send our intl agency guys to india to investigate the crime scene etc...And have full access to everything...we can arrest our citizens for anything... hell we sent special flights to krgzstan to bring our people and even thier krgz origin families back.... *u think we will hand over our citizen to india without any evidence ?* Must be jokin...
> 
> Can u investigate Samjhota express where several Pakistani citizens were burnt alive in a train?in which ur indian army officers and hindu extremists were involved? have they been punished?


yes crime took place in india against indians but from pakistani terrorists. All we want is to investigate up on evidence provide by india against let chief rather than complaining 'evidence is not enough '.All we want is cooperation. 
You were welcome to provide lawyer for kasab but pak govt decided not to. 

Regarding the blast..indian army suspected an army officer and questioned him.
india arrested and questioned it's own army man even though failed to give the case a final result.(we could have keep it as secret if we had any intention of hiding an indian involvement, that too an army officer )
but according to indian information UNSC banned LET and some other terrorist org : who were behind this. 
india provided details of a pakistani national who jumped off the top of the train befor starting.


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Jana said:


> Just like Kashmir Singh was given in India ???


I can't see much of an analogy or similarly between the two,except Kashmir Singh too had sinister objectives,but he didn't kill anyone if i am right?


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## Spring Onion

bhagathsingh said:


> you mean mumbai attackers were not pakistani's ?



Please use the correct helping verb. Not WERE, rather WAS. Only one is proven please check who are other 9  you may find some local roots


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## Spring Onion

Bombensturm said:


> I can't see much of an analogy or similarly between the two,except Kashmir Singh too had sinister objectives,but he didn't kill anyone if i am right?



Bad luck for him that he was caught otherwise he would have done the same like other Indian terrorist sarbjeet singh who have killed people in Lahore in bomb blasts


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## Avatar

Jana said:


> Please use the correct helping verb. Not WERE, rather WAS. Only one is proven please check who are other 9  *you may find some local roots*



..Actually they were all my local friends from the golf club. It sucks playing alone now

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## Avatar

hasnain0099 said:


> well I am not an Indian to speak English in Desi accent......tum logo nay humain bhee badnam kiya hua hay.....and btw hez not speaking English you 1st grader



Ulta chor kotwaal ko daate ..

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## bluefox

Frankenstein said:


> We will deport em back to India, cuz he is an India, story of his life will be like a tennis ball bouncing on both sides



This is what happens to a man who tries to please allah and gain virgins in heaven witha gun in his hand..KASAB will now understand that all the heaven talk is just B*ll sh*t and if some thing really exists for him then it is Hell burning hell.


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## bluefox

Jana said:


> Please use the correct helping verb. Not WERE, rather WAS. Only one is proven please check who are other 9  you may find some local roots



yeah the other nine...Jannat sey utar ke aaye the udan katole pe..and u know what??they landed in pakistan cause its *"the Only GR8 muslim nation and saviour of Islam""*.


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## bluefox

hasnain0099 said:


> well I am not an Indian to speak English in Desi accent......tum logo nay humain bhee badnam kiya hua hay.....and btw hez not speaking English you 1st grader



Well if ur punjabi accent doesnot influence ur english why dou think ur punjabi should influence ur hindi??
Badnaam?? badnaam woh hotein jinka kuch accha naam ho!!! pehle thoda naam kamaa lo phir badnaami be barey mein sochna...


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## Jazzbot

OMG i've just read tons of bullshit..


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## trident2010

Bombensturm said:


> He'll be given a hero's welcome just like that Lockerbie bomber was given in Libya.




Dead person can also be deported, isn't it ??


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## mjnaushad

bhagathsingh said:


> Thats where my point is..pak govt should investigate and produce enough evidence before the court if the evidence given by india is not sufficient.


When Pakistan want access to ajmal kasaab India says NO

When Pakistan want to visit the site you guys say NO

When Pakistan want to interview the Indians you guys say NO



SO how will we investigate and produce evidence..


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## trident2010

hasnain0099 said:


> well I am not an Indian to speak English in Desi accent......tum logo nay humain bhee badnam kiya hua hay.....and btw hez not speaking English you 1st grader




You are badnam in all the accents ..  

Cannot believe you people supporting the terrorist.


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## LCA Tejas

By the time we make These dossiers which anyway are Re Directed to there Waste baskets , We could focus on Our work, We tried the best To go diplomatically to get Justice to those who laid down there Lives In 26/11, So next time if anything happens Like this, We need not fear the World Before taking Immediate actions On the Country which Supports It, Which can Be Pointed Out with closed eyes even by a 5 year old Kid...

*RIP The Dead, We tried Our best In Getting You all Justice*


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## TaimiKhan

LCA Tejas said:


> By the time we make These dossiers which anyway are Re Directed to there Waste baskets , We could focus on Our work, We tried the best To go diplomatically to get Justice to those who laid down there Lives In 26/11, So next time if anything happens Like this, We need not fear the World Before taking Immediate actions On the Country which Supports It, Which can Be Pointed Out with closed eyes even by a 5 year old Kid...
> 
> *RIP The Dead, We tried Our best In Getting You all Justice*



Thanks for telling us that you are among those 5 year old kids.

Now its understood why Indian members come here and throw out their verbal trash, as being 5 years their own minds don't work to its full potential nor they have the required intellect, so whatever is fed to them, they accept that as truth and come here to throw up the trash in their minds. 

Good to have known this *fact*.


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## LCA Tejas

TaimiKhan said:


> Thanks for telling us that you are among those 5 year old kids.
> 
> Now its understood why Indian members come here and throw out their verbal trash, as being 5 years their own minds don't work to its full potential nor they have the required intellect, so whatever is fed to them, they accept that as truth and come here to throw up the trash in their minds.
> 
> Good to have known this fact.



I have not been offending, so as you are a Mod, I respectfully tell U, Please Do not quote anything and everything which comes across u...

I have every right to speak on Behalf of those Who laid down there Lives in this brutal Murder.... I speak on behalf of that 5 year old kid, I speak of that Old man who lost his Grand Children, I speak on behalf of the mother who lost her 5 year old child, I speak on Behalf of all those who were Killed,And I have every damn Rights to do so....

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## Jazzbot

mjnaushad said:


> When Pakistan want access to ajmal kasaab India says NO
> 
> When Pakistan want to visit the site you guys say NO
> 
> When Pakistan want to interview the Indians you guys say NO
> 
> 
> 
> SO how will we investigate and produce evidence..




and in addition to that, when once Pakistan has said that the provided evidences are not sufficient to take solid actions against accused persons, india is keep sending same so-called evidences and increase the number with nth-dossier.. 

they are thinking that increasing number of dossiers will gonna work lol


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## TaimiKhan

LCA Tejas said:


> I have not been offending, so as you are a Mod, I respectfully tell U, Please Do not quote anything and everything which comes across u...
> 
> I have every right to speak on Behalf of those Who laid down there Lives in this brutal Murder.... I speak on behalf of that 5 year old kid, I speak of that Old man who lost his Grand Children, I speak on behalf of the mother who lost her 5 year old child, I speak on Behalf of all those who were Killed,And I have every damn Rights to do so....



Ohhh so you are concerned about the ones killed on that side of the border and give a damn to the ones who got killed on this side becoz they are not humans or should i use some other word. 

We are well aware of what India has done in the past and what it is doing currently. No need to ask me to prove it as I know what I know and don't have to tell you guys as it is worthless, and if proof is required, none has been provided by you people when asked for. 

So if you have your damn rights, I also have my damn rights to reply to people who are having some thoughts not based on reality and uttering their rubbish on this forum. 

And as of now I am not offending anyone, when I will do you will be the first to know and I will quote whatever rubbish is uttered to counter it. 

And people like you should be countered as your intentions are well known to us.

We as Pakistanis have & had fully condoned the barbaric incident and are not in favor of anything of such nature to have happened or happen in future, so you have no right to come here and accuse and write your baseless BS about Pakistan and Pakistanis. 

And to recollect your memory, it was India who supported, armed and trained a terrorist organization Mukhti Bani and used it in killing innocent Pakistanis of East Pakistan, so this tradition of using proxies for killing innocents and using it as strategic asset was started by India, ask your own country to why have started such a tradition due to which innocents on both sides are still dying to this day. 

So before you utter your BS about Pakistan, do see your own country's record of using the same tactics in the past as well as in present.

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## Hulk

Well GOP's intention was clear right at the beginning when it took them more than 1 month to accept Kasab. Also the drama how the Parents were replaced by ISI men and how the villagers were told not to identify Kasab on Camera. The same villagers were unhappy when Kasab was sentenced and there are still some who believe he is Amar Singh.


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## Agnostic_Indian

Jana said:


> Please use the correct helping verb. Not WERE, rather WAS. Only one is proven please check who are other 9  you may find some local roots



I would still prefer 'WERE ' BCOZ YOUR LITTLE KASAB TOLD THE WHOLE TRUTH. guess what.. They were all PAKISTANIES.
By the way we are still investigating if some locals helped them.if so then india will not hesitate to bring him to the law.


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Jana said:


> Bad luck for him that he was caught otherwise he would have done the same like other Indian terrorist sarbjeet singh who have killed people in Lahore in bomb blasts




sarbjeet singh? wasn't that the case where the key witness Shaukat Salim is caught on tape retracting his statement.?


Anyway,i take back the first statement i made,it was ignorant on my part to generalize whole of Pakistani mindset.so


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## Agnostic_Indian

From what i know is mukthibahini were not terrorists.They simply have been denied their right to form the govt after the election (awami league 167 of 169 seats but But ppp leader zulfikar ali bhuto opposed and the president denied his rights and called the army which is dominated by west pakistanies. Then army cracked down dhaka and arrested awani league leader.On 27 march 1971 rebel leader Ziaur rahman A rebellious leader in pak army declared independence on behalf on mujibur.Then awami league leaders formed goverment in exile.east pakistani Rifles defected to rebellion.A Guerilla group of civilian was formed to help the bangladeshi army.
indian involvement - Pak army conducted wide spread Genocide Against bengali population particularly against hindu population. Indian border is opened for refugees.india appealed international community but no result.(india was under huge pressure from refuge burden*) and indian pm Decided that it was more effective to end the genocide by force than simply give home to refugees.indira gandhi announced support to muktibahini and started giving training. 
this is wat wikipedia says what you say ??


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## Jazzbot

bhagathsingh said:


> From what i know is mukthibahini were not terrorists.They simply have been denied their right to form the govt after the election (awami league 167 of 169 seats but But ppp leader zulfikar ali bhuto opposed and the president denied his rights and called the army which is dominated by west pakistanies. Then army cracked down dhaka and arrested awani league leader.On 27 march 1971 rebel leader Ziaur rahman A rebellious leader in pak army declared independence on behalf on mujibur.Then awami league leaders formed goverment in exile.east pakistani Rifles defected to rebellion.A Guerilla group of civilian was formed to help the bangladeshi army.
> indian involvement - Pak army conducted wide spread Genocide Against bengali population particularly against hindu population. Indian border is opened for refugees.india appealed international community but no result.(india was under huge pressure from refuge burden*) and indian pm Decided that it was more effective to end the genocide by force than simply give home to refugees.indira gandhi announced support to muktibahini and started giving training.
> this is wat wikipedia says what you say ??



keep ur crap outta here, and talk about the topic, keep rest of things to their respective threads..


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## Agnostic_Indian

jazzy_superior said:


> keep ur crap outta here, and talk about the topic, keep rest of things to their respective threads..



Sorry for being off topic. But look above and you will find mr. Moderator mentioned that muKti bahini as terrorists and i was just answering.


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## Agnostic_Indian

The 11th dossier contains response to pak's Queries and additional information. 
so this must help pakistan to investigate more and take action against LET CHIEF. 
IS NOT LET BANNED BY UN ? IF SO WHY NOT BANN THEM IN PAKISTAN ???


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## TaimiKhan

bhagathsingh said:


> Sorry for being off topic. But look above and you will find mr. Moderator mentioned that muKti bahini as terrorists and i was just answering.



Well with that logic, which you have just presented, then Kashmiri groups are Freedom Fighters and not terrorists. As what logic and twisted history you presented from wikipedia, same applies to the Kashmiri freedom fighters. Mukhthi Bani was fighting for independence and India supported it, Kashmiri Freedom Fighters are fighting for Independence, Pakistan should also support it. 

Ones terrorist is a freedom fighter in others view, ones freedom fighter is a terrorist to another view.

Anyway, this will get the topic derailed, so if you wish to have any further discussion, do it in the correct thread, which we have many out there, keep the discussion to this topic for now.

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## Agnostic_Indian

TaimiKhan said:


> Well with that logic, which you have just presented, then Kashmiri groups are Freedom Fighters and not terrorists. As what logic and twisted history you presented from wikipedia, same applies to the Kashmiri freedom fighters. Mukhthi Bani was fighting for independence and India supported it, Kashmiri Freedom Fighters are fighting for Independence, Pakistan should also support it.
> 
> Ones terrorist is a freedom fighter in others view, ones freedom fighter is a terrorist to another view.
> 
> Anyway, this will get the topic derailed, so if you wish to have any further discussion, do it in the correct thread, which we have many out there, keep the discussion to this topic for now.


I have my answers for your comment but since you told not to im not posting (you hold the power).


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## TaimiKhan

bhagathsingh said:


> I have my answers for your comment but since you told not to im not posting (you hold the power).



As said either you can post it in another relevant thread, as there are many out there, you just need to look for them and then invite me i will be there. 

Or you can post it as a visitor message and we can discuss it there. 

I did not stopped you from posting completely, i just said not at this thread but anywhere else.


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## Lankan Ranger

*Chidambaram heads to Pakistan today, Mumbai trial tops agenda*

A day after talks between the foreign secretaries of India and Pakistan, Home Minister P Chidambaram will go Islamabad on Friday, the first ministerial visit to Islamabad since the 26/11 terror attack, during which he is expected to press for a speedy trial of the Pakistanis accused of planning the carnage.

Chidambaram will represent India at a meeting of the home ministers of the eight-nation South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (SAARC) in Islamabad on Saturday.

Chidambaram will also hold a bilateral meeting with Pakistan's Interior Minister Rehman Malik. 

Although terrorism figured prominently in the discussions between India's Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao and her Pakistani counterpart Salman Bashir Thursday, Chidambaram will take up the issue in greater detail with Malik.

Chidambaram is expected to press for concrete action against Hafiz Saeed, the founder of terror group Lashkar-e-Taiba-turned-Jamaat-ud-Dawa charity suspected by India to be the mastermind of the Mumbai carnage
.
Last week, India gave a dossier containing specific sections of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) under which Saeed is wanted in India. In the past, Pakistan had cited legal difficulties in prosecuting Saeed.

Chidambaram will also seek to know from his counterpart the status of the trial of seven Pakistanis involved in the Mumbai carnage and voice samples of handlers of the 26/11 attacks, official sources said.
After his talks with Rao in Islamabad, Bashir said Thursday that both countries with discuss greater cooperation in counter-terrorism at the forthcoming meeting of home ministers between the two countries.

Chidambaram heads to Pakistan today, Mumbai trial tops agenda- Hindustan Times


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## Pasban

Zimbabwe - South Africa - Pakistan - 
Article published the Saturday 26 June 2010 - Latest update : Saturday 26 June 2010 

*Mumbai suspect arrested on SAfrica border, officials play down terror fears*

By Ryan Truscott 

_Officials in Zimbabwe have named a Pakistani terror suspect arrested last Sunday trying to enter South Africa through Beitbridge border post. Some reports say that the man is wanted in connection with the 2008 Mumbai attacks, but South African police sources have downplayed suggestions the arrest is to do with terrorism.
_
Sources close to the investigation in Zimbabwe say the man is 33 year-old Imran Muhammad. 

He was arrested last Sunday while trying to get through Beitbridge border post to South Africa on what officials believe was a fake Kenyan passport.

He was traveling together with another Pakistani national. The Herald newspaper says that man is 39-year old Chaudry Parvez Ahmed.
They are reported to have come to Zimbabwe from Saudi Arabia, via Tanzania .
_The paper says that an Imran Muhammad is wanted in connection with the terror attacks in the Indian city of Mumbai two years ago.
_
But it is not yet clear if the man in Zimbabwean police custody is the same person. 
Before the start of the World Cup in South Africa this month, there were fears it could be targeted by terrorists. 
But Zimbabwe is also a conduit for illegal immigrants trying to get into South Africa, which is an economic powerhouse in the region. 

Zimbabwean police spokesperson Wayne Bvudzijena says investigations into the case are continuing. He won&#8217;t say whether the two posed a threat to the World Cup.
South African police official Vish Naidoo has downplayed those fears today.

He&#8217;s told the South African Press Agency that the two Pakistani men were arrested on suspicion of being illegal immigrants, not terrorists. 



tags: Football - Mumbai - Pakistan - South Africa - Terrorism - World Cup - Zimbabwe

Mumbai suspect arrested on SAfrica border, officials play down terror fears | www.english.rfi.fr

What are people's views on this...


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## Pasban

Regarding the Mumbai hostage crisis and attack, I found an interesting article. Perhaps it is relevant to this story.



> *India is grappling with the possibility that one of its own undercover operatives helped equip the Islamist extremists who attacked Mumbai, killing more than 170 people.
> *
> Police in Indian-controlled Kashmir demanded the release of one of their undercover agents on Sunday after he was arrested by police in Delhi for allegedly supplying a mobile SIM card used by the Mumbai gunmen.
> 
> 
> *The operation turned sour, however, after police in Srinagar, Indian Kashmir's summer capital, said that Ahmed worked for them, raising the possibility that an Indian agent aided the militants that committed India's worse terror attack in 15 years.
> *
> A senior officer in Srinagar, Kashmir's summer capital, said Calcutta police were told that Ahmed is "*our man and it's now up to them how to facilitate his release*".
> 
> He said that Ahmed was a Special Police Officer, part of a semi-official counterinsurgency network whose members are usually drawn from former militants.
> 
> "*Sometimes we use our men engaged in counter-insurgency ops to provide SIM cards to the [militant] outfits so that we track their plans down*," he said.
> 
> Mumbai terror suspect 'was Indian undercover cop' - Times Online


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## sparklingway

*Note that it has been earlier clarified that the Brig from SCO is named because the IP's were registered by SCO under his name when he served as secretary in AJK. The computer used to send out the concerned email brought back his name in the reverse IP lookup.*

*India comes up with six new names in Mumbai case*​By Baqir Sajjad Syed
Sunday, 04 Jul, 2010

ISLAMABAD: The government has started examining a list of six suspects given by New Delhi during talks between the two foreign secretaries in Islamabad last week.

Most of the suspects have been identified by their aliases and cover names.

*&#8220;A list of six more suspects &#8212; Sajid Mir, Maj Abdur Rehman, Brig Riaz, Abu Kafa, Abu Qama and Abu Hamza &#8212; has been given by India,&#8221; a security official said.*

The names of the alleged handlers and controllers of the attack&#8217;s perpetrators emerged from interrogation by India of American suspect David Coleman Headley, who is being tried in the US for a plot to attack offices of a Danish newspaper that published blasphemous caricatures in 2005.

Indias National Investigation Agency (NIA) is likely to again get access to Mr Headley for further questioning.

According to the sketchy details provided by the Indians about the new suspects, Sajid Mir is allegedly an ex-armyman and the international operations commander of Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT).

He is supposedly the &#8216;Individual A&#8217; in the Headley affidavit and &#8216;Individual B&#8217; in another suspect Tahawwur Hussain Rana&#8217;s affidavit submitted in a US court and is associated with both LeT and Ilyas Kashmiri. He is also reportedly wanted by the US and Australian law-enforcement agencies.
*
Maj Abdur Rehman alias Pasha, as per the Indian information, retired from the army in 2007 and had been arrested by Pakistani security agencies in September last year for his suspected involvement in the Headley case. He was, however, released.

The third military man pointed out by the Indian side, Brig Riaz, is allegedly an ex-official of the SCO, the army wing dealing with telecommunications.

The other three &#8212; Abu Kafa, Abu Qama and Abu Hamza &#8212; have been identified by their aliases and were allegedly the handlers of the Mumbai attackers.*

*Abu Kafa is also the alias of Mazhar Iqbal, one of the seven suspects currently being tried by the Rawalpindi anti-terrorism court in the Mumbai case.*

An investigator said it was practically unworkable to find the people identified only by their aliases or cover names.

Indian Home Minister P Chidambaram, who last week held talks with Interior Minister Rehman Malik and Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi in Islamabad, asked Pakistan to rigorously follow up leads that had emerged from Headley&#8217;s questioning and arrest other suspects in the Mumbai carnage.

The Indian minister had also cautioned that substantive progress in the trust-building process, initiated after a meeting between the prime ministers&#8217; of both countries in Bhutan in April, would not be possible unless the Mumbai case was resolved.

He had hinted that India would expect forward movement from Pakistan on the issue before the July 15 meeting of the foreign ministers.

*However, a diplomat said: &#8220;Islamabad is committed to proceeding with the Mumbai trial, but to expect everything to be pegged on the Mumbai issue is unfair and against the spirit to normalise bilateral ties.&#8221; He urged India to look at the trust-building process from a larger angle rather than just through the Mumbai prism.*


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## Awesome

Mumbai Kahani merged and stickied.


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## Dr.Evil

Asim Aquil said:


> Mumbai Kahani merged and stickied.



Very Sarcastic ??


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## Awesome

Cleaning up the kachara off the forum

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## Spring Onion

Oh good yara. Hum tau dar hee gay thay ka dosra Mumbai ho gaya kia.


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## SCARECROW

TaimiKhan said:


> Well with that logic, which you have just presented, then Kashmiri groups are Freedom Fighters and not terrorists. As what logic and twisted history you presented from wikipedia, same applies to the Kashmiri freedom fighters. Mukhthi Bani was fighting for independence and India supported it, Kashmiri Freedom Fighters are fighting for Independence, Pakistan should also support it.


well if they win kashmir than only world will acknowledge them as freedom fighters otherwise terrorist is d nly option ... 



> Ones terrorist is a freedom fighter in others view, ones freedom fighter is a terrorist to another view.


same applied for ur country too.


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## Abingdonboy

Bull said:


> Mahatma Gandhi...Indira Gandhi..Rajiv Gandhi....Beant Singh were killed by terrorists.



Indira Gandhi was not killed by terrorists, they were her bodyguards, are you calling here BGs terrorists. and anyway they killed her, justifibly for Op Bluestar, attacking the holiest Gurdwara in the world, they wee heros.
+it's odd you state one of the BGs (Beant Singh) who you call a terrorist to then say was killed by terrorists?


R.I.P Beant Singh and Satwant Singh


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## amit27

Abingdonboy said:


> Indira Gandhi was not killed by terrorists, they were her bodyguards, are you calling here BGs terrorists. and anyway they killed her, justifibly for Op Bluestar, attacking the holiest Gurdwara in the world, they wee heros.
> +it's odd you state one of the BGs (Beant Singh) who you call a terrorist to then say was killed by terrorists?
> 
> 
> R.I.P Beant Singh and Satwant Singh





Killing a women dont make u hero and i know many Sikhs who opposed her death its not allowed in sikh religion neither. Remember it was not indian army who took weapons in the goldern temple it was in fact sikh terrorists.


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## MilesTogo

TaimiKhan said:


> Well with that logic, which you have just presented, then Kashmiri groups are Freedom Fighters and not terrorists. As what logic and twisted history you presented from wikipedia, same applies to the Kashmiri freedom fighters. *Mukhthi Bani was fighting for independence and India supported it, Kashmiri Freedom Fighters are fighting for Independence, Pakistan should also support it. *
> Ones terrorist is a freedom fighter in others view, ones freedom fighter is a terrorist to another view.
> 
> Anyway, this will get the topic derailed, so if you wish to have any further discussion, do it in the correct thread, which we have many out there, keep the discussion to this topic for now.




Exactly!!!
--------------------------


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## Babur Han

I found an interesting Analyse on Youtube about the Mumbai Attacks:


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