# PAF CAS confirmed the SU-30MKI kill in addition to MiG-21 Bison - Alan Warnes



## war&peace

Alan Warnes ... one of the most reputed sources of info
on airforce & air warfare matters in the world


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118427653856538630

​Lesson for all Pakistani. Guys always trust your official source. They are thorough professionals. They know what they are doing.

Reactions: Like Like:
112


----------



## Khafee

war&peace said:


> Alan Warn ... one of the most reputed source of info
> on airforce & air warfare matters
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118427653856538630

Reactions: Like Like:
33


----------



## Path-Finder

war&peace said:


> Alan Warn ... one of the most reputed source of info
> on airforce & air warfare matters
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118427653856538630


You have lit a fuze in moohdhi bakths arses! The CowKiDar are coming. Mooooo

Reactions: Like Like:
34


----------



## war&peace

Khafee said:


>


This is such a great news

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Windjammer

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118421641451773952

Reactions: Like Like:
37


----------



## Areesh

More than SU30 kill I am still loving the fact that PAF *forced* IAF in shooting down its own MI17 and killing its own 6 personnel

Reactions: Like Like:
49


----------



## RangeMaster

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118427653856538630

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118421641451773952

Reactions: Like Like:
30


----------



## Tejas Spokesman

So?
Our IAF chief also reiterated the F-16 kill yesterday.
All these reiterations from both sides have Zero value unless a neutral source supports their claims or their is evidence of a wreckage.

Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Path-Finder

To reiterate he has lit a fuze in moohdhi bakths arses. The cowkidar are coming. Mooooo

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## H!TchHiker



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sabretooth

Finally. It is out in the open. Thunder Flanker.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Areesh

Tejas Spokesman said:


> So?
> Our IAF chief also reiterated the F-16 kill yesterday.
> All these reiterations from both sides have Zero value unless a neutral source supports their claims or their is evidence of a wreckage.
> 
> Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.



You killed *SIX* of your own on *27 February 2019* 

We lost *ZERO *

Take that

Reactions: Like Like:
43


----------



## Zulfiqar



Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## SIPRA

"Ab taira kiya ho ga, BS Coriander"

Reactions: Like Like:
14


----------



## war&peace

Areesh said:


> More than SU30 kill I am still loving the fact that PAF *forced* IAF in shooting down its own MI17 and killing its own 6 personnel


Yup that was FANTASTIC ...I mean we didn't waste our missile and got the job done and it will haunt IAF for years to come

Reactions: Like Like:
16


----------



## Khafee

Tejas Spokesman said:


> *So?*
> Our IAF chief also reiterated the F-16 kill yesterday.
> All these reiterations from both sides have Zero value unless a neutral source supports their claims or their is evidence of a wreckage.
> 
> Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.


You look like bigger liars, than you are.

Reactions: Like Like:
30


----------



## loanranger

The Pandora box has been opened again wonder if the pilot that comes out is dead or alive.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Areesh

war&peace said:


> Yup that was FANTASTIC ...I mean we didn't waste our missile and got the job done and it will haunt IAF for years to come



The main purpose was to first *kill* the enemy and which in result would *humiliate* it

IAF did that for us

Reactions: Like Like:
17


----------



## Windjammer

Areesh said:


> More than SU30 kill I am still loving the fact that PAF *forced* IAF in shooting down its own MI17 and killing its own 6 personnel


That's where the difference lies between professionals and rogues.
PAF chief never claimed it but if the tables were turned, the IAF Chief would have tried to claim this as a kill as well.
Some one also tell B S Dhanoa & Co. that AMRAAMS are fired by the F-16s and it's not part of an F-16.

Reactions: Like Like:
23


----------



## Maxpane



Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Maarkhoor

Tejas Spokesman said:


> So?
> Our IAF chief also reiterated the F-16 kill yesterday.
> All these reiterations from both sides have Zero value unless a neutral source supports their claims or their is evidence of a wreckage.
> 
> Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.


And you are sitting next to him warning him about his mistake

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## CriticalThought

Sabretooth said:


> Finally. It is out in the open. Thunder Flanker.



Nopes. PAF shot down a Flanker. We don't know which specific aircraft.


----------



## Maarkhoor

Areesh said:


> The main purpose was to first *kill* the enemy and which in result would *humiliate* it
> 
> IAF did that for us


We do have complete record although body handed over to red cross, we have his SU-30 helmet, his uniform, a pistol and all the documents  we will surprise you Indian by letting world knows slowly slowly 

Maraan gey katt te gaseetaan gey boutaa...means we will hit you less but humiliate you more

Reactions: Like Like:
20


----------



## Maxpane

Next news should be that it was jf 17

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## The Eagle

"We shall surprise you." 

IAF can arrange as many as dramatic pressers & invent concocted stories but the fact will remain as it is. PAF scored 2 kills MIG-21 & SU-30. MI-17 is the kill which Indians been dancing to credit a lock & fire. 

More embarrassment on way for IAF. The CAS says it and the source is the Alan Warnes that wouldn't risk to create a drama having his own credibility in professional circles. This is yet another surprise that instead of any random media house etc; PAF chose to discuss the same with Alan Warnes. All I can expect from Indian Side either the silence on this or Alan Warnes will be called a traitor & Pakistan Agent but the writing will remain on the wall.

MI-17V5 is the kill that IAF tried to brush it under by calling it not following SOP or SAM mistake but the matter is more of embarrassment as well as proving total lack of Situational Awareness of IAF. It is the evidence, few of us discussed that there was a hell situation among Indian Assets clearly audible on RT having no idea as what's going on. Understand the way Indians were blinded and had no idea about surrounding and then desperation and fear.

Reactions: Like Like:
33


----------



## loanranger

Tejas Spokesman said:


> So?
> Our IAF chief also reiterated the F-16 kill yesterday.
> All these reiterations from both sides have Zero value unless a neutral source supports their claims or their is evidence of a wreckage.
> 
> Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.


So according to you the PAF air chief is wrong you are right. The more you defend your f16\su30 claim the more you will be embaresed if some proof comes out.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## 50cent

where is wrekage debris of plane went believe it that's impossible to hide


----------



## Sipahi

Khafee said:


>



I was reading the article somewhere that PAF's F16s are taking on KSA's F15s in training and beating them tactically,

Is it true ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## loanranger

The Su 30 wreckage site must have been so remote that the indian army didnot let it see the light of day.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## hunter_hunted

war&peace said:


> Yup that was FANTASTIC ...I mean we didn't waste our missile and got the job done and it will haunt IAF for years to come



next time crew of indian heli will check first if indian fighter jets are in air.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Windjammer

*Guys remember it was S/L Hassan Sadiqui who became the Sukhoi Slayer.
He shot down the SU-30 after W/C Nouman killed the MiG-21. *

Reactions: Like Like:
29


----------



## PakSword

war&peace said:


> Alan Warnes ... one of the most reputed source of info
> on airforce & air warfare matters in the world
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118427653856538630


Wow.. Kia cheez nikaal ke laya hai Mera Bhai....

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Callisto

RIWWIR said:


> "Ab taira kiya ho ga, BS Coriander"


BS dhania??


----------



## Hareeb

The lose will haunt them for years to come. 



Windjammer said:


> *Guys remember it was S/L Hassan Sadiqui who became the Sukhoi Slayer.
> He shot down the SU-30 after W/C Nouman killed the MiG-21. *


Is he a F-16 pilot?


----------



## war&peace

hunter_hunted said:


> next time crew of indian heli will check first if indian fighter jets are in air.


They can check whatever they want... when it is height of war, things go awry .. 
Just remember these golden worlds "You didn't surprise us, but we will surprise you"

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Khafee

CriticalThought said:


> Nopes. PAF shot down a Flanker. We don't know which specific aircraft.


The day it happened, Windy let the cat out of the bag by mistake.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Rafael

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118428101971562496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118428758308990976


Khafee said:


> The day it happened, Windy let the cat out of the bag by mistake.


Humein bhi kabhi billi dikhaao na bhai sahab

Reactions: Like Like:
17


----------



## The Eagle

50cent said:


> where is wrekage debris of plane went believe it that's impossible to hide



Remember on the same day/time, an IAF SU-30 crashed and it was reported due to Technical Failure as usual. The crash which was supposed to be discussed more even for the Tech error, on pretexts of MKI being a top tier platform but went under IAF drama of F-16 claim & continuous denial of loss at all. Catch the drift.

Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Tejas Spokesman said:


> So?
> Our IAF chief also reiterated the F-16 kill yesterday.
> All these reiterations from both sides have Zero value unless a neutral source supports their claims or their is evidence of a wreckage.
> 
> Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.





The source is from Alan Warnes. A European Western man. Not from a Pakistani. Also, it is a well known fact that indians and indian media = FAKE NEWS....

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## I.R.A

Khafee said:


> You look like bigger liars, than you are.



Sheikh ........... they haven't even actually fully shown themselves yet. Liar may be a very very very small word. 

Pakistani future generation needs to be taught in schools about Feb 2019. We have seen a lot of history being manipulated and changed. In fact the whole internet needs to have multiple archives of the reality of Feb 2019 and not claims by some BS.

Reactions: Like Like:
14


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Tejas Spokesman said:


> He spends way too much time in Pakistan.
> If you check his twitter timeline he visited PAF bases 7 times in 5 years.
> This shows he is John Fricker 2.0





As he is not an indian, he must be WAYYYY more likely to be telling the truth. Whatever an indian says, the opposite is highly likely to be the reality.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## The Eagle

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> The source is from Alan Warnes. A European Western man. Not from a Pakistani. Also, it is a well known fact that indians and indian media = FAKE NEWS....



If such Arm Chair Generals, had any credibility; would have been reading carefully instead of attempting to throw fairy tales to cover their faces like this. There was no need to feed the one whose mere purpose is to divert and satisfy himself through the way of lies & concocted stories. Be it Alan Warnes or anyone; whosoever counters Indian claims & bluffs will eventually become Pakistani Agent or to say; non credible. ZeeMedia & Arnab types are only gospel tellers for the Indian Mindset.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Lincoln

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118428758308990976
Before Indians go mad.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## PakSword

Rafael said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118428101971562496
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118428758308990976
> 
> Humein bhi kabhi billi dikhaao na bhai sahab


You know it means he will write a detailed account of the meeting.... He just didn't want to disclose everything on Twitter. More humiliation on the way for Indians.

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## CHACHA"G"

war&peace said:


> Alan Warnes ... one of the most reputed sources of info
> on airforce & air warfare matters in the world
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118427653856538630


*O yes …… The conformation... *



PakSword said:


> You know it means he will write a detailed account of the meeting.... He just didn't want to disclose everything on Twitter. More humiliation on the way for Indians.


It is surly …… And I m loving it....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## loanranger

Windjammer said:


> *Guys remember it was S/L Hassan Sadiqui who became the Sukhoi Slayer.
> He shot down the SU-30 after W/C Nouman killed the MiG-21. *






But Sir This video suggests that hassan was flying jf17 not f16. Unless ofcourse thats not hassan besides jf 17. Maybe the viper patch picture is an old one.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## monitor

war&peace said:


> Alan Warnes ... one of the most reputed sources of info
> on airforce & air warfare matters in the world
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118427653856538630



A great news. It will be more great if the kill was by JF-17

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## war&peace

PakSword said:


> Wow.. Kia cheez nikaal ke laya hai Mera Bhai....


Yeh hai tu aik tweet but it is heavier in weight than many long articles created by low-credibility sources.



Tejas Spokesman said:


> So?
> Our IAF chief also reiterated the F-16 kill yesterday.
> All these reiterations from both sides have Zero value unless a neutral source supports their claims or their is evidence of a wreckage.
> 
> Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.


Why did he banned 
Abhi tu maza aa raha tha... bhai discussion honay diya karo...the truth is our side so we can easily handle them

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Windjammer

Remember this was a BVR kill so unlike the Indian clowns jumping all over with their false claim, PAF ascertained all the details before the Airchief confirming the kill.

Reactions: Like Like:
17


----------



## khansaheeb

The Eagle said:


> "We shall surprise you."
> 
> IAF can arrange as many as dramatic pressers & invent concocted stories but the fact will remain as it is. PAF scored 2 kills MIG-21 & SU-30. MI-17 is the kill which Indians been dancing to credit a lock & fire.
> 
> More embarrassment on way for IAF. The CAS says it and the source is the Alan Warnes that wouldn't risk to create a drama having his own credibility in professional circles. This is yet another surprise that instead of any random media house etc; PAF chose to discuss the same with Alan Warnes. All I can expect from Indian Side either the silence on this or Alan Warnes will be called a traitor & Pakistan Agent but the writing will remain on the wall.
> 
> MI-17V5 is the kill that IAF tried to brush it under by calling it not following SOP or SAM mistake but the matter is more of embarrassment as well as proving total lack of Situational Awareness of IAF. It is the evidence, few of us discussed that there was a hell situation among Indian Assets clearly audible on RT having no idea as what's going on. Understand the way Indians were blinded and had no idea about surrounding and then desperation and fear.



For Alan Warnes to make such a definitive statement he must have been shown the kill videos of the Indian planes being shot down.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Mentee

monitor said:


> A great news. It will be more great if the kill was by JF-17


Have a look at the publish date

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ARMalik

The Eagle said:


> Remember on the same day/time, an IAF SU-30 crashed and it was reported due to Technical Failure as usual. The crash which was supposed to be discussed more even for the Tech error, on pretexts of MKI being a top tier platform but went under IAF drama of F-16 claim & continuous denial of loss at all. Catch the drift.



And not to mention, Indian media reported shooting down of the MKI, only to withdraw later after pressure from the Indian military and government. They own anchor reported it.

Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## war&peace

monitor said:


> A great news. It will be more great if the kill was by JF-17





khansaheeb said:


> For Alan Warnes to make such a definitive statement he must have been shown the kill videos of the Indian planes being shot down.


Agreed. Alan Warnes has been granted access to quite a lot of very confidential info due to his integrity as a pro.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## atan651

India lost 3 and Pakistan none. Case closed.

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## The Eagle

khansaheeb said:


> For Alan Warnes to make such a definitive statement he must have been shown the kill videos of the Indian planes being shot down.



Indeed he has been provided with proof and he is not sharing the same at this time. I can expect a detailed version of both Kills being penned by him but that will only happen once Officials decide to release. After all, such meetings & shares are subject to agreement to the terms & conditions of Source (PAF) in this case. Mr. Warnes will only make it public once cleared by PAF and till then, his statement as such is good enough due to credibility. PAF CAS chose him to convey the same before world without releasing Data is done for many understandable reasons.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## PakSword

Can anyone find Su-30 on this JF-17?

Reactions: Like Like:
14


----------



## IbnAbdullah

Salaam



CriticalThought said:


> Nopes. PAF shot down a Flanker. We don't know which specific aircraft.



I think the most qualified to know the details of that engagement in Pakistan would be the Air Chief. So if he says we shot down a flanker, I think we can be sure he knows what 'we' know. 


..

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## monitor

PakSword said:


> View attachment 553874
> 
> 
> Can anyone find Su-30 on this JF-17?



Photoshoped

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## war&peace

ARMalik said:


> And not to mention, Indian media reported shooting down of the MKI, only to withdraw later after pressure from the Indian military and government. They own anchor reported it.



And combined it with this masterpiece

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## monitor

Mentee said:


> Have a look at the publish date




It shows guy's

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## war&peace

PakSword said:


> View attachment 553874
> 
> 
> Can anyone find Su-30 on this JF-17?


@monitor bro... this may answer your question

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 313ghazi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118428758308990976
Obviously they talked about evidence of the Sukhoi kill too.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## CHACHA"G"

PakSword said:


> View attachment 553874
> 
> 
> Can anyone find Su-30 on this JF-17?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BetterPakistan

Another kick on the *** of IAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Green Angel

PakSword said:


> View attachment 553874
> 
> 
> Can anyone find Su-30 on this JF-17?


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

monitor said:


> A great news. It will be more great if the kill was by JF-17





Indeed!.........IF the Sukhoi MK-30 was shot down by a JF-17 then it means Pakistan has joined the ranks of a select few nations who can indigenously produce high tech advanced weapons systems, comparable to the best in the world. If it was shot down by an F-16 then it means the americans don't give a damn about the indians and their relationship with them.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## war&peace

313ghazi said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118428758308990976
> Obviously they talked about evidence of the Sukhoi kill too.


Obviously bro, such professional do not speak without a clear evidence & put their reputation on line. What he has to gain from supporting PAF against IAF? 
He is not even a Pakistani. He is from a neutral country where, acc. Indian bhakts, people would be more familiar with Indian movies & India than Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## M.Kamran_Pak

Tejas Spokesman said:


> So?
> Our IAF chief also reiterated the F-16 kill yesterday.
> All these reiterations from both sides have Zero value unless a neutral source supports their claims or their is evidence of a wreckage.
> 
> Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.


So....
(1) Shooting down your own Mi-17 means IAF very little or no control of battle space that day.
(2) BTW why Mi-17 was flown if Su-30 wasn't downed?? To get Abhinandand? Lol

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SIPRA

BetterPakistan said:


> Another kick on the *** of IAF.



By now, they have become habitual, rather addicted, to these kicks.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## war&peace

I want @Indus Pakistan, @MastanKhan @BATMAN to know this news as well

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mudas777

Tejas Spokesman said:


> So?
> Our IAF chief also reiterated the F-16 kill yesterday.
> All these reiterations from both sides have Zero value unless a neutral source supports their claims or their is evidence of a wreckage.
> 
> Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.




Evidence is all there to see what's the facts are on the ground but if you are wearing tinted glasses of course you can't see a damn thing. Kings of fake news are just hell bend on not looking at the direction where the facts lie but instead looking at the direction where there ego lies. You know what you destroyed all of our F16's, actually they were in the same compound parked, primed and polished where madrassa students were with 350 plus terrorists you killed. It may help to grow your ego but not you dick. Topic closed done and dusted now put this news on your barking social media too. Actually the F16's which are flying in Pakistan these days are borrowed from Jordan for photo shots happy now??? Now look at your dick its still the 3 inch has not grown more now that's the fact is.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Dynamic Defense Solutions

gr8


----------



## SIPRA

M.Kamran_Pak said:


> So....
> (1) Shooting down your own Mi-17 means IAF very little or no control of battle space that day.
> (2) BTW why Mi-17 was flown if Su-30 wasn't downed?? To get Abhinandand? Lol



No. To say hello and bye bye to Abhinandan, across the LOC.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## R Wing

Areesh said:


> You killed *SIX* of your own on *27 February 2019*
> 
> We lost *ZERO *
> 
> Take that



Even if we go by just the events that BOTH sides do agree on (i.e. the other matters are denied by either side):
IAF lost:
1 helo
1 jet
6 KIA
1 captured 

PAF lost:
nothing



(note: the F-16 and Su-30 downings are denied by their relevant sides, so they don't figure into my tally above.)

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## litman

lets see whether RT publishes the news or not? most likely they wont. their front line relatively newer jet has been shot down in the first ever air combat involving 4th gen jets from both sides.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SIPRA

mudas777 said:


> Evidence is all there to see what's the facts are on the ground but if you are wearing tinted glasses of course you can't see a damn thing. Kings of fake news are just hell bend on not looking at the direction where the facts lie but instead looking at the direction where there ego lies. You know what you destroyed all of our F16's, actually they were in the same compound parked, primed and polished where madrassa students were with 350 plus terrorists you killed. It may help to grow your ego but not you dick. Topic closed done and dusted now put this news on your barking social media too. Actually the F16's which are flying in Pakistan these days are borrowed from Jordan for photo shots happy now??? Now look at your dick its still the 3 inch has not grown more now that's the fact is.



3 inches? In which state?


----------



## Xeson

Was waiting for an *official* to just name the damn second jet now I can  damn better

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SSGcommandoPAK

I was the first guy to reveal this news on PDF about shooting down of a sukhoi along with mig.

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## Windjammer

PAF to give a briefing on this and other events of 26/27 February in a couple of days.

Reactions: Like Like:
32


----------



## Ahassan

loanranger said:


> But Sir This video suggests that hassan was flying jf17 not f16. Unless ofcourse thats not hassan besides jf 17. Maybe the viper patch picture is an old one.




my friend ... the guy in video is not Hassan ...he is Wing Commander .... Yasir Sarfraz .... he was part of the ops Feb 27...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

war&peace said:


> I want @Indus Pakistan, @MastanKhan @BATMAN to know this news as well






Even if is proven 2000% that a JF-17 shot down an indian Sukhoi MK-30, MastanKhan will write a 100 line essay as to why the PAF is backward and it was luck or iaf incompetence as to why we managed to shoot down 2/3 indian military craft.......

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## CriticalThought

Khafee said:


> The day it happened, Windy let the cat out of the bag by mistake.



We need official confirmation. So far, ISPR's line is it doesn't matter whether it was Thunder or Viper.


----------



## Evora

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> I was the first guy to reveal this news on PDF about shooting down of a sukhoi along with mig.


Bro send me your mailing address i want to send you sweets(jameel sweet ki mithai ka tokra with piste wali barfi)


----------



## Zarvan

The way he is talking it seems he has also been shown proof

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## war&peace

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Even if is proven 2000% that a JF-17 shot down an indian Sukhoi MK-30, MastanKhan will write a 100 line essay as to why the PAF is backward and it was luck or iaf incompetence as to why we managed to shot down 2/3 indian military craft.......


Bro, I respect him though his opinion is mostly at odds with rest of people (equally respectable) on this forum. He just sees things differently. I like people who have the ability to think different. It is not necessary that he is right. But I don't doubt his sincerity.

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## Zarvan

Still proof of SU-30 kill needs to be released public

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## CriticalThought

IbnAbdullah said:


> Salaam
> 
> 
> 
> I think the most qualified to know the details of that engagement in Pakistan would be the Air Chief. So if he says we shot down a flanker, I think we can be sure he knows what 'we' know.
> 
> 
> ..



You have missed the point by a mile. I am talking about which PAF aircraft shot it down.


----------



## M.AsfandYar

Windjammer said:


> PAF to give a briefing on this and other events of 26/27 February in a couple of days.


You have been saying that for quite a long time now windy bhai....

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Xeson

Evora said:


> Bro send me your mailing address i want to send you sweets(jameel sweet ki mithai ka tokra with piste wali barfi)



I was first one to read that lol, can I get a dabba if not a tokra  @Evora


----------



## war&peace

Zarvan said:


> The way he is talking it seems he has also been shown proof




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118428758308990976

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Evora

I reckon the 2nd dead pilot was of mig21 shot down while abhinandan was flying su30

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Path-Finder

war&peace said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118428758308990976



I told you the Cowkidar are coming! Mooo

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Maxpane

Rafael said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118428101971562496
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118428758308990976
> 
> Humein bhi kabhi billi dikhaao na bhai sahab


zalimmmmmmmmm


----------



## Jf Thunder

Indians are already burning, doing stupid things that are backfiring and are hiding under rocks 
why must we "zaleel" them more? 
zalim log

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zarvan

Ahassan said:


> my friend ... the guy in video is not Hassan ...he is Wing Commander .... Yasir Sarfraz .... he was part of the ops Feb 27...


He is Hassan not Yasir


----------



## macnurv

Now lets see what the Bhartis will use this time as an excuse, for all their claims all they could produce was a piece of a missile and went on a Crying trip to the US.



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Even if is proven 2000% that a JF-17 shot down an indian Sukhoi MK-30, MastanKhan will write a 100 line essay as to why the PAF is backward and it was luck or iaf incompetence as to why we managed to shot down 2/3 indian military craft.......


Not just that, the way he writes, he literally is committing genocide of english grammar and language itself. On a serious note, I think that guy is suffering from some bipolar disorder.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ahassan

Zarvan said:


> He is Hassan not Yasir



my friend ... do you know him ??????? because i know him personally ... he is from vehari and a very good friend of my mine ... he is not hassan ... he is yasir ....


----------



## Champion_Usmani

Alan Warnes has took the interview of Air Chief ACM Mujahid Anwar khan, here are details.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118421641451773952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118427653856538630

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

CriticalThought said:


> *We need official confirmation*. So far, ISPR's line is it doesn't matter whether it was Thunder or Viper.



Let me know, when you get it

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Windjammer

Zarvan said:


> He is Hassan not Yasir


Janab, he is not Hassan, the pilot in the video was part of the package.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## CriticalThought

Khafee said:


> Let me know, when you get it



Don't worry. I am not sweating over it either.


----------



## Lincoln

macnurv said:


> Now lets see what the Bhartis will use this time as an excuse, for all their claims all they could produce was a piece of a missile and went on a Crying trip to the US.
> 
> 
> Not just that, the way he writes, he literally is committing genocide of english grammar and language itself. On a serious note, I think that guy is suffering from some bipolar disorder.



They will call another press briefing, describe their own events, again say they have proof but can't show it but they have it, and then the Indian media gonna be like "WE HAVE PROOF", and the indians are going to believe it blindly. Done.


----------



## NA71

Evora said:


> I reckon the 2nd dead pilot was of mig21 shot down while abhinandan was flying su30


 Remember Abhi said, *I am not suppose to tell you which Aircraft I was flying*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

CriticalThought said:


> Don't worry. I am not sweating over it either.


Now you are contradicting yourself, quit while you are ahead.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paf-...bison-alan-warnes.614187/page-7#post-11378708


----------



## NA71

Alternatiiv said:


> They will call another press briefing, describe their own events, again say they have proof but can't show it but they have it, and then the Indian media gonna be like "WE HAVE PROOF", and the indians are going to believe it blindly. Done.


Alan tweeted ...I did ask for proof with the guys but not disclose on Twitter.


----------



## Trailer23

Dude, the Topic is already going on for Hours...


----------



## Secret Service

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> I was the first guy to reveal this news on PDF about shooting down of a sukhoi along with mig.


Are you real Ssg ?


----------



## IceCold

Tejas Spokesman said:


> So?
> Our IAF chief also reiterated the F-16 kill yesterday.
> All these reiterations from both sides have Zero value unless a neutral source supports their claims or their is evidence of a wreckage.
> 
> Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.


Multiple neutral sources have confirmed no F-16s were lost. Has any neutral source reiterated Indian stance on not losing any SU-30?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NA71

Ahassan said:


> my friend ... do you know him ??????? because i know him personally ... he is from vehari and a very good friend of my mine ... he is not hassan ... he is yasir ....


so Hassan is a decoy


----------



## Secret Service

PakSword said:


> View attachment 553874
> 
> 
> Can anyone find Su-30 on this JF-17?
> 
> [emoji38][emoji38]


It is photoshopped by some fanboy.


----------



## Windjammer

NA71 said:


> Alan tweeted ...I did ask for proof with the guys and but not disclose on Twitter.


No, what Alan is saying is that he has been given/shown the proof but he is not going to release/share everything on the Twitter......

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Beast

Sipahi said:


> I was reading the article somewhere that PAF's F16s are taking on KSA's F15s in training and beating them tactically,
> 
> Is it true ?


F-15 is less maneuvered than F-16. It is no surprised it will loses to F-16 in dogfight.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## SrNair

Lol .
Their Air chief confirmed ,so that is right ?
So what about the second half ?
Bodies ,fuselage anything ? 

Radar screen shot or probably the photo of radar screen was already showed as proof by IAF .
But PAF is an official word .


Fact is world already got the glimpse of the pathetic ego problem of some people.


----------



## Ahassan

NA71 said:


> so Hassan is a decoy



No .... Hassan was the one who shot down 1 intruding fighter ..... the ops team included 4 aircraft ... 2 Jft and 2 mirages .... in coming days you might get the names of the whole team ....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NA71

Windjammer said:


> No, what Alan is saying is that he has been given/shown the proof but he is not going to release/share everything on the Twitter......


 OK OK thanks for correction ....one thing more ...why our Air Chief has chosen indirect way to disclose this information...he could appear in press conference.


----------



## Irfan Baloch

Areesh said:


> More than SU30 kill I am still loving the fact that PAF *forced* IAF in shooting down its own MI17 and killing its own 6 personnel


Own goal. By far the most hilarious as they tried to blame on Israeli missile system
Then blamed ISPR and then helicopter pilots


They tried to play victim by crying pakistan did it
Amazing how the indian leadership tries to bully then cry and bitch and then celebrate in the same time

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## NA71

Ahassan said:


> No .... Hassan was the one who shot down 1 intruding fighter ..... the ops team included 4 aircraft ... 2 Jft and 2 mirages .... in coming days you might get the names of the whole team ....


 So Nouman was not SU killer? sorry stream of questions....


----------



## loanranger

Ahassan said:


> my friend ... the guy in video is not Hassan ...he is Wing Commander .... Yasir Sarfraz .... he was part of the ops Feb 27...


ok that clears my confusion.


----------



## SrNair

The Eagle said:


> "We shall surprise you."
> 
> IAF can arrange as many as dramatic pressers & invent concocted stories but the fact will remain as it is. PAF scored 2 kills MIG-21 & SU-30. MI-17 is the kill which Indians been dancing to credit a lock & fire.
> 
> More embarrassment on way for IAF. The CAS says it and the source is the Alan Warnes that wouldn't risk to create a drama having his own credibility in professional circles. This is yet another surprise that instead of any random media house etc; PAF chose to discuss the same with Alan Warnes. All I can expect from Indian Side either the silence on this or Alan Warnes will be called a traitor & Pakistan Agent but the writing will remain on the wall.
> 
> MI-17V5 is the kill that IAF tried to brush it under by calling it not following SOP or SAM mistake but the matter is more of embarrassment as well as proving total lack of Situational Awareness of IAF. It is the evidence, few of us discussed that there was a hell situation among Indian Assets clearly audible on RT having no idea as what's going on. Understand the way Indians were blinded and had no idea about surrounding and then desperation and fear.



At least Pakistanis can convince themselves .
We dont have any problem after all our objectives completed and got additional bonus .

What Alan Warnes ?
A UK imported equivalent of our Ajay Shukla .


----------



## Ahassan

NA71 said:


> So Nouman was not SU killer? sorry stream of questions....



Hassan shot down Su .... noman shot down mig

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NA71

SrNair said:


> Lol .
> Their Air chief confirmed ,so that is right ?
> So what about the second half ?
> Bodies ,fuselage anything ?
> 
> Radar screen shot or probably the photo of radar screen was already showed as proof by IAF .
> But PAF is an official word .
> 
> 
> Fact is world already got the glimpse of the pathetic ego problem of some people.




Babu sab milley ga...it was all planned interview....*Alan is not Allan Faqir*...he must have got enough information to conclude what happened on that day.



Ahassan said:


> Hassan shot down Su .... noman shot down mig


oh thats why the big bird killer got more publicity in first few weeks....


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

macnurv said:


> Now lets see what the Bhartis will use this time as an excuse, for all their claims all they could produce was a piece of a missile and went on a Crying trip to the US.
> 
> 
> Not just that, the way he writes, he literally is committing genocide of english grammar and language itself. On a serious note, I think that guy is suffering from some bipolar disorder.





He is one of those Pakistanis who always says and writes negative things about Pakistan and Pakistanis no matter what. These sorts always praise india and indians and fail to realise the abnormal hatred they have for the Pakistani race and nation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Windjammer

NA71 said:


> OK OK thanks for correction ....one thing more ...why our Air Chief has chosen indirect way to disclose this information...he could appear in press conference.


Alan warnes was interviewing the ACM, and obviously recent events would have also come up, however i have been told that PAF will hold a briefing in next few days,

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## CriticalThought

Khafee said:


> Now you are contradicting yourself, quit while you are ahead.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paf-...bison-alan-warnes.614187/page-7#post-11378708



The disciplined mind has no problems accepting the official position of strategic ambiguity. It _needs_ an official confirmation to shift its position. People with hormonal imbalances on the other hand tend to read too much, or too little.


----------



## loanranger

NA71 said:


> Remember Abhi said, *I am not suppose to tell you which Aircraft I was flying*


He also said '' but Im sure you found the wreckage'' and we all know that we found mig 21 wreckage.


----------



## SrNair

NA71 said:


> Babu sab milley ga...it was all planned interview....*Alan is not Allan Faqir*...he must have got enough information to conclude what happened on that day.
> 
> 
> oh thats why the big bird killer got more publicity in first few weeks....



Information provided by whom?
Su pilots .
Let see Mig 21 was shot down and pilot captured .Within one day he is in India .

Fact is the initial phase of PR work of ISPR was impressive .If they were able keep silence after that it would have been better.
But the desparate second phase totally exposed Pak military.


----------



## Irfan Baloch

Sipahi said:


> I was reading the article somewhere that PAF's F16s are taking on KSA's F15s in training and beating them tactically,
> 
> Is it true ?


What is tectical beating?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NA71

Ahassan said:


> Hassan shot down Su .... noman shot down mig





Windjammer said:


> Alan warnes was interviewing the ACM, and obviously recent events would have also come up, however i have been told that PAF will hold a briefing in next few days,




Thanks bro.....obliged


----------



## The Eagle

SrNair said:


> Fact is world already got the glimpse of the pathetic ego problem of some people.



Never knew you guys will abuse IAF & Modi like this openly. Seems like, making progress. By the way, Alan Warnes is the source, an ISI agent & on payroll of Pakistan Military; will be the next column by Indian intellect of media houses. So also, can expect a lot of abuse for him as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## loanranger

SrNair said:


> Information provided by whom?
> Su pilots .
> Let see Mig 21 was shot down and pilot captured .Within one day he is in India .
> 
> Fact is the initial phase of PR work of ISPR was impressive .If they were able keep silence after that it would have been better.
> But the desparate second phase totally exposed Pak military.


save it IAF about to be exposed big time....what will you say when su 30 kill is confirmed?


----------



## NA71

SrNair said:


> Information provided by whom?
> Su pilots .
> Let see Mig 21 was shot down and pilot captured .Within one day he is in India .
> 
> Fact is the initial phase of PR work of ISPR was impressive .If they were able keep silence after that it would have been better.
> But the desparate second phase totally exposed Pak military.




Really.....have you ever analyzed your own Military? unimpressive in every phase so far.... Carrying metal scrap of AIM120 thn fake RADAR signature slide show followed by Rafale ka rona dhona.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Eagle

SrNair said:


> At least Pakistanis can convince themselves .
> We dont have any problem after all our objectives completed and got additional bonus .
> 
> What Alan Warnes ?
> A UK imported equivalent of our Ajay Shukla .



I will still provide you enough space here so you can feel good as compare to what you really know deep inside. Call it Alan Warnes or Shukla or whatever, but the way you compared by sacrificing one of your own is similar as how IAF accepted that MI-17V5 was a SAM mistaken hit because, telling the truth would be more of humiliating than accepting it with SAM. Tactics as usual. 

How an SU on same day/time crashed and was called a Tech failure similarly to MI-17V5 and MiG-21 Bison. Same losing party, same claims & similar wording... Isn't it more pathetic?

Reactions: Like Like:
14


----------



## CriticalThought

Irfan Baloch said:


> What is tectical beating?



Tactics: Short term techniques used to win a fight or overcome immediate problems.

Strategy: Medium term devices used to win a battle or overcome problems with broader scope.

Planning: Long term plans used to win a war or overcome force level issues.


----------



## SrNair

The Eagle said:


> Never knew you guys will abuse IAF & Modi like this openly. Seems like, making progress. By the way, Alan Warnes is the source, an ISI agent & on payroll of Pakistan Military; will be the next column by Indian intellect of media houses. So also, can expect a lot of abuse for him as well.



Dont need to put words on my mouth .
Like in last reply ,everything was ok until Pak military invited foreigners to visit Balakot after one and half month anf forcing IAF to release Radar picture this is the ego that we are telling .

Mig 21 the one our MEA confirmed so fuselage was there .

IAF is air arm of Indian Military .They took orders from Elected GoI.
And Mr Narendra Modi is Prime Minister of India .
If something like Pulwama happens again ,he will do that again and again.


----------



## Windjammer

SrNair said:


> Lol .
> Their Air chief confirmed ,so that is right ?
> So what about the second half ?
> Bodies ,fuselage anything ?
> 
> Radar screen shot or probably the photo of radar screen was already showed as proof by IAF .
> But PAF is an official word .
> 
> 
> Fact is world already got the glimpse of the pathetic ego problem of some people.



If we had Rafales, we wouldn't have suffered so much loss....MODI
If we had Rafales, the dogfight would have been in our favour....IAF Chief.
Surely they weren't crying over the loss of a vintage MiG-21.
Or perhaps PAF should have started waving all the four missiles recovered from MiG wreckage and claim to have shot down six IAF aircraft.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## PakSword

SrNair said:


> Lol .
> Their Air chief confirmed ,so that is right ?
> So what about the second half ?
> Bodies ,fuselage anything ?
> 
> Radar screen shot or probably the photo of radar screen was already showed as proof by IAF .
> But PAF is an official word .
> 
> 
> Fact is world already got the glimpse of the pathetic ego problem of some people.


Have you read what he said in a later tweet?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SrNair

The Eagle said:


> I will still provide you enough space here so you can feel good as compare to what you really know deep inside. Call it Alan Warnes or Shukla or whatever, but the way you compared by sacrificing one of your own is similar as how IAF accepted that MI-17V5 was a SAM mistaken hit because, telling the truth would be more of humiliating than accepting it with SAM. Tactics as usual.
> 
> How an SU on same day/time crashed and was called a Tech failure similarly to MI-17V5 and MiG-21 Bison. Same losing party, same claims & similar wording... Isn't it more pathetic?



The helicopter incident will either due to Tech glitches or SAM system .
Because if pilot failed to follow SOP that will happen same hapoened during Gulf War for USAF.

Last Su crash was in June 2018.



Windjammer said:


> If we had Rafales, we wouldn't have suffered so much loss....MODI
> If we had Rafales, the dogfight would have been in our favour....IAF Chief.
> Surely they weren't crying over the loss of a vintage MiG-21.
> Or perhaps PAF should have started waving all the four missiles recovered from MiG wreckage and claim to have shot down six IAF aircraft.



We have our own ways to increase the inventory of Rafale


----------



## NA71

SrNair said:


> Dont need to put words on my mouth .
> Like in last reply ,everything was ok until Pak military invited foreigners to visit Balakot after one and half month anf forcing IAF to release Radar picture this is the ego that we are telling .
> 
> Mig 21 the one our MEA confirmed so fuselage was there .
> 
> IAF is air arm of Indian Military .They took orders from Elected GoI.
> And Mr Narendra Modi is Prime Minister of India .
> If something like Pulwama happens again ,he will do that again and again.




Be fair for a second...are those radar signatures enough to reach any conclusion? ask any third party experts and share their findings on PDF....deepdown inside you know the reality but this bloody ego won't sit you ..t

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## LeGenD

There was a time (1990s) when PAF was a mere shadow of its former-self - a force that existed on paper but was not operationally visible. Western sanctions (Pressler Amendment) took a heavy toll on the war-fighting capabilities of PAF.

Then 9/11 happened and India saw a golden opportunity to exploit this situation to its advantage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001–02_India–Pakistan_standoff

The unsung hero of Pakistan, Pervez Musharraf (veteran of all major wars with India), leveraged his links in the WEST to keep India at bay in the 2001-2002 standoff, prioritized revival of Pakistan's economy by bringing a revered economist Shaukat Aziz to the fore, and also prioritized UPLIFT of Pakistani military capabilities at all levels.

Look at PAF today - COMPLETE TURN AROUND since the 1990s; operationally sound and battle-hardened due to pressures of War On Terror, and due to cooperation of allies such as US, Turkey, Sweden and China in developing and/or improving our strike platforms since 2002.

_Mashallah_

Time for Indians to *wake-up* and come to terms with present-age ground realities; PAF of today is a vastly different force from PAF of the 1990s.



@SrNair
@Nilgiri
@randomradio

Reactions: Like Like:
14


----------



## NA71

SrNair said:


> The helicopter incident will either due to Tech glitches or SAM system .
> Because if pilot failed to follow SOP that will happen same hapoened during Gulf War for USAF.
> 
> Last Su crash was in June 2018.
> 
> 
> 
> We have our own ways to increase the inventory of Rafale




You should shoot your IAF maintenance crew ...all technical faults occurred on 27/2.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Windjammer

SrNair said:


> The helicopter incident will either due to Tech glitches or SAM system .
> Because if pilot failed to follow SOP that will happen same hapoened during Gulf War for USAF.
> 
> Last Su crash was in June 2018.



There's hell of a difference between a full scale war and a minor skirmish.


> We have our own ways to increase the inventory of Rafale


Just like your claim of kill.....AMRAAMS are fired by an F-16, they are not a part of it.
Now take a guess, where was that piece recovered from.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Pinnacle

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Even if is proven 2000% that a JF-17 shot down an indian Sukhoi MK-30, MastanKhan will write a 100 line essay as to why the PAF is backward and it was luck or iaf incompetence as to why we managed to shot down 2/3 indian military craft.......


It is always better to have critics and devil's advocates on your side to point out weaknesses and short comings.I also sometimes differ from the opinions of @MastanKhan , but we ought to admit he gives his critics honestly and diligently.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## SIPRA

Windjammer said:


> Now take a guess, where was that piece recovered from.



You mean: Was it the belly or a$$ of SU-30?


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

war&peace said:


> Alan Warnes ... one of the most reputed sources of info
> on airforce & air warfare matters in the world
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118427653856538630
> 
> ​Lesson for all Pakistani. Guy always trust your official source. They are thorough professionals. They know what they are doing.


Atleast they should also give proof of SU 30 to burn Indians


----------



## The Eagle

SrNair said:


> Dont need to put words on my mouth .
> Like in last reply ,everything was ok until Pak military invited foreigners to visit Balakot after one and half month anf forcing IAF to release Radar picture this is the ego that we are telling .
> 
> Mig 21 the one our MEA confirmed so fuselage was there .
> 
> IAF is air arm of Indian Military .They took orders from Elected GoI.
> And Mr Narendra Modi is Prime Minister of India .
> If something like Pulwama happens again ,he will do that again and again.



Wait a minute as . Undecided.


Balakot was not hit but then again, 300+ were killed. Indian Media Mistake.
BJP says no casualties were intended hence, no kill but delivered the message. Minister Mistake.
IAF did not reach Balakot but SOW launched due to wind. Nature Mistake.
Spice-2000 is an AI bomb, goes in without *crater damage *& eliminate targets. Alleged Camp Mistake.
Spice 2000 is not a Bomb but a Kit. Professionals Mistake.
Initial provided Balakot SAT images proven fake/stolen. Google Earth etc Mistake.
Indian FM relies on SAT images on Social Media, proven wrong/old. Social Media Mistake.
PAF retaliated at Six Points inside IoK. Israeli Defence Equipment Mistake.
India doesn't have Rafale to counter PAF. France Mistake.
MI-17V5 was hit by Israeli SAM.. Israeli Mistake.
MI-17V5 pilot did not follow SOP claimed six lives. Pilot Mistake.
Abhinandan did not follow SOP & disobeyed direct orders. Abhinandan Mistake.
All Indian AWACs were in shift change/Turn around/Change over/Tarmac. AWACs mistake.
No AWACs but images are available, proven to be doctored. Photo Shop Mistake.
An AMRAAM Piece is found & not the F-16 wreckage/loss/even a single bolt. PAF Mistake.
Int'l Observers confirms PAF F-16 fleet count/all accounted for. US, Pentagon, Source Mistake.
Sweden provided SAAB AW&EC birds. Sweden Mistake.
F-16 were used. US Mistake.
SU MKI can dodge 6 AMRAAMs but did not take a single shot. Russian Mistake.
SU-30 MKI crashed on the same time/day & claimed to be Tech Failure. Russian Mistake.
Abhinandan did not fire single missile. PAF or Russia Mistake.
Alan Warnes interviewed CAS, provided with Proof. Alan Warnes mistake.

See India has nothing to do with this all as it is always others mistake. And if Modi does it again, will be beaten Black & Blue again like this. The said "If" has nothing to do with the fact rather Modi's own game killing own Military for Election. IoK & youth rise is what Indian Army sowed for.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
4 | Like Like:
42


----------



## Windjammer

RIWWIR said:


> You mean: Was it the belly or a$$ of SU-30?


Exactly, by waving that piece, the Indians have only proved what we already knew.
You don't simply find a missile travelling at Mach-4 in your back garden.

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## Lincoln

SrNair said:


> The helicopter incident will either due to Tech glitches or SAM system .
> Because if pilot failed to follow SOP that will happen same hapoened during Gulf War for USAF.
> 
> Last Su crash was in June 2018.
> 
> 
> 
> We have our own ways to increase the inventory of Rafale



You guys claim that the IFF was not turned on. You do realize that it means even your own jets wont be able to recognize it as friendly or foe.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## NA71

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Atleast they should also give proof of SU 30 to burn Indians


Now other than PAF's officials Alan is the first who probably has seen vid clip and photos documents of another pilot . He must have been given complete & authentic evidence

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The Eagle

Windjammer said:


> Exactly, by waving that piece, the Indians have only proved what we already knew.
> You don't simply find a missile travelling at Mach-4 in your back garden.



In history, how many lone AMRAAMs are found or how much time does it take to recover a lost (fired mistakenly or dodged) AMRAAM to be found? as compare to one found in the belly of hunt?

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## PakSword

**************************
***** SLOW POISONING *****
**************************

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Windjammer said:


> That's where the difference lies between professionals and rogues.
> PAF chief never claimed it but if the tables were turned, the IAF Chief would have tried to claim this as a kill as well.
> Some one also tell B S Dhanoa & Co. that AMRAAMS are fired by the F-16s and it's not part of an F-16.





PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Even if is proven 2000% that a JF-17 shot down an indian Sukhoi MK-30, MastanKhan will write a 100 line essay as to why the PAF is backward and it was luck or iaf incompetence as to why we managed to shot down 2/3 indian military craft.......


F 16 shot down both jets


----------



## The Eagle

Alternatiiv said:


> You guys claim that the IFF was not turned on. You do realize that it means even your own jets wont be able to recognize it as friendly or foe.



This is a total insult & disrespect to the men in service especially the one who lost his life in the line of duty. What more could be demoralizing for the soul that the fallen soldier is blamed with plain lies like this. He wasn't some junky that didn't know his Electronics that too the one who operates/fly his bird on daily basis or was he a random Taxi Drive incidentally became a Pilot hence, the habit of not turning-on the meter repeated.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## WarKa DaNG

Chowkdaro me aag lagne ka andesha

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SSGcommandoPAK

Secret Service said:


> Are you real Ssg ?


nop If I was a real SSG would I have time to do all this ?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## NA71

Guys now what could be the implications on the overall alert situation..obviously they come out and deny ...other possibilities?



SSGcommandoPAK said:


> nop If I was a real SSG would I have time to do all this ?


 so how did you know what we have been told today?


----------



## Sipahi

Irfan Baloch said:


> What is tectical beating?



I wanted to say that PAF F16 pilots are more aware tactically.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SSGcommandoPAK

Evora said:


> Bro send me your mailing address i want to send you sweets(jameel sweet ki mithai ka tokra with piste wali barfi)


Haha thanks but I don't deserve the mitahi,road par khare kise police ya rangers wale ko khilado ap.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Trailer23

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> F 16 shot down both jets


That's a pretty big claim without any evidence.

Just because their are videos of both _Sqn Ldr. Hasan Siddiqui_ & _Wg Cmd. Nouman Ali Khan_ flying F-16's doesn't necessarily mean that they were both flying F-16's.

One could...believe that atleast one kill was that of an F-16, but claiming both were F-16 are further from the truth.

All will soon be reveled in due time.


----------



## Windjammer

The Eagle said:


> In history, how many lone AMRAAMs are found or how much time does it take to recover a lost (fired mistakenly or dodged) AMRAAM to be found? as compare to one found in the belly of hunt?


It took the Indians five weeks to discover some allegedly unexploded bombs that were fired on ground targets but astonishingly, they were waving the piece of an air to air missile the next day or so.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## SSGcommandoPAK

NA71 said:


> Guys now what could be the implications on the overall alert situation..obviously they come out and deny ...other possibilities?
> 
> 
> so how did you know what we have been told today?


Actually after the dog fight took place I uploaded a status on FB regarding the two Migs shot down,one of my friends who is serving in PAF corrected me on that status and said one was Sukhoi and the other was Mig.Then I shared the news about sukhoi over here !


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

NA71 said:


> Now other than PAF's officials Alan is the first who probably has seen vid clip and photos documents of another pilot . He must have been given complete & authentic evidence


We should be shown too



SSGcommandoPAK said:


> Actually after the dog fight took place I uploaded a status on FB regarding the two Migs shot down,one of my friends who is serving in PAF corrected me on that status and said one was Sukhoi and the other was Mig after which I posted about sukhoi also being shot down here at pdf!


And both were shot by F 16s. Ryt?


----------



## SSGcommandoPAK

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> We should be shown too
> 
> 
> And both were shot by F 16s. Ryt?


F-16s were not used

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

CriticalThought said:


> The disciplined mind has no problems accepting the official position of strategic ambiguity. It _needs_ an official confirmation to shift its position. People with hormonal imbalances on the other hand tend to read too much, or too little.


Any more Chawls, or are you done for the day?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> F-16s were not used


Then your source is not 100%


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> F 16 shot down both jets





Not denying it but do you have any evidence?


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Not denying it but do you have any evidence?


No evidence buy confirmation from a PAF pilot


----------



## SIPRA

Khafee said:


> Any more Chawals, or are you done for the day?



A linguistic correction, Sir. "Chawal" is the person, who commits "Chawlian" or "Chawlan".

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Trailer23

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> And both were shot by F 16s. Ryt?


F-16's were used. They had GoPro camera's installed to cover the footage of both kills by the JF-17's.

[for Educational Purpose] Pirated Copies will be circulated on the streets of India throughout the Indian General Election.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

RIWWIR said:


> A linguistic correction, Sir. "Chawal" is the person, who commits "Chawlian" or "Chawlan".


Kindly rephrase my initial insult, so that it can be more effective next time

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Riz

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> F 16 shot down both jets


Yaar tujy kis cheez ki preshani ha??? Jis k marzi ha samjh lo.. We are not going to discuss which of our jets shot downs 2 indian jets... We only means business... Tari harkat sa lagta ha tu 99% indian ha.. Wesa he bolta ha wesa he samjta ha..


----------



## airomerix

Trailer23 said:


> That's a pretty big claim without any evidence.
> 
> Just because their are videos of both _Sqn Ldr. Hasan Siddiqui_ & _Wg Cmd. Nouman Ali Khan_ flying F-16's doesn't necessarily mean that they were both flying F-16's.
> 
> One could...believe that atleast one kill was that of an F-16, but claiming both were F-16 are further from the truth.
> 
> All will soon be reveled in due time.



S/L Hassan is a CCS Instructor since a few months now. And he has never flown JF-17s in his life. 

Same goes for Wg Cmdr Nauman. The people who are connected with Air Force know what's what.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Riz said:


> Yaar tujy kis cheez ki preshani ha??? Jis k marzi ha samjh lo.. We are not going to discuss which of our jets shot downs 2 indian jets... We only means business... Tari harkat sa lagta ha tu 99% indian ha.. Wesa he bolta ha wesa he samjta ha..


Mei unko bolraha hun jo kehrahe hain ke JF 17 ne giraye both planes. Indians to tm log ho jo unki tarah jhoot bolrahe ho



airomerix said:


> S/L Hassan is a CCS Instructor since a few months now. And he has never flown JF-17s in his life.
> 
> Same goes for Wg Cmdr Nauman. The people who are connected with Air Force know what's what.


Yeah we know. But idiots claiming here that jf 17s shot down both


----------



## SIPRA

Khafee said:


> Kindly rephrase my initial insult, so that it can be more effective next time



Per your order: "Any more Chawlian, or are you done for the day?"

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Pinnacle

Both kills were made by F-16. On 27th Feb, either @Knuckles or @Bilal Khan 777 was congratulating No.9 squadron for both kills in other thread.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## airomerix

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Yeah we know. But idiots claiming here that jf 17s shot down both



Cant blame them. Our own ISPR pulled off this stunt for some reason better to be not disclosed here. 

Another major problem is that Indian's shit their pants in Capitol Hill whenever they are whipped with US made technology. Government wanted to avoid that aswell.


----------



## Khafee

RIWWIR said:


> Per your order: "Any more Chawlian, or are you done for the day?"


Thanks Bro

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NA71

Riz said:


> Yaar tujy kis cheez ki preshani ha??? Jis k marzi ha samjh lo.. We are not going to discuss which of our jets shot downs 2 indian jets... We only means business... Tari harkat sa lagta ha tu 99% indian ha.. Wesa he bolta ha wesa he samjta ha..


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

danish falcon said:


> Both kills were made by F-16. On 27th Feb, either @Knuckles or @Bilal Khan 777 was congratulating No.9 squadron for both kills in other thread.


Exactly

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakistani Aircraft

Allahu Akbar.
Allah, the Most Benevolent has protected Pakistan and disgraced the enemy today.

Pakistan Zindabad
Pakistan Air Force Zindabad

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## NA71

Indians have just started a massive anti-alan campaign on social media ....after three hours sock.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Falcon26

Treat the SU-30 kill the same as the F-16 kill. A claim without evidence.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Riz

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Mei unko bolraha hun jo kehrahe hain ke JF 17 ne giraye both planes. Indians to tm log ho jo unki tarah jhoot bolrahe ho


Nhi hum sab yeh keh rahy hain k dono indian jets JF-17 na giray... Ab bolo kia masla ha phir??? Tumara kia laina daina is bat sa ??


----------



## SilverKnights

I always trusted my DGISPR , so nothing new i do not need any neutral account may be rest of the world might need third party witness.
At the end PAKISTAN always ZINDABAD thats it.


----------



## war&peace

Falcon26 said:


> Treat the SU-30 kill the same as the F-16 kill. A claim without evidence.


Sir..not anymore..


----------



## NA71

Dear Hammad, plz calm down.....I offer sorry from PDF if anything hurts you.... please members gali dey do but Indian ka lable na lago...kissi par.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Irfan Baloch

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Even if is proven 2000% that a JF-17 shot down an indian Sukhoi MK-30, MastanKhan will write a 100 line essay as to why the PAF is backward and it was luck or iaf incompetence as to why we managed to shot down 2/3 indian military craft.......


Mastan is pragmatic not emotional 
He gives alternate view and in case you missed he is praising PAF and chinese tech

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Riz

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Sab nahi ap jaise idiots bolrahe hain jo apne Indian brother in laws ki tarah jhoot bolrahe hain


Its loud and clear from day 1 that JF-17 is the one who shot downs a SU-30.. Ab jitna rona ha tu ro lay..


----------



## LeGenD

war&peace said:


> Lesson for all Pakistani. Guy always trust your official source. They are thorough professionals. They know what they are doing.


Thanks for the wonderful news.

I am among those people who pay close attention to official accounts, and give them the benefit of doubt by default. I do not subscribe to the mentality that official accounts are supposed to be misleading by default. However, official accounts can be censored to large extent (sensitive information withheld from public disclosures) and/or sugar-coated with narratives which might be music to public ears, and these observations are likely to fuel suspicion and/or conspiracy theories in turn.

Case in point: ISPR initially denied involvement of F-16 aircraft in recent clashes with Indian Air Force at any capacity but some voices/sources were pointing out otherwise and ISPR eventually admitted that much of PAF was active on February 28, 2019. Now some voices are asserting that F-16 were involved in shooting down Indian jets... 

Well, you do the math.

Hopefully all notable developments in relation to recent clashes between PAF and IAF will become crystal clear to us all in time.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## criticalerror

SrNair said:


> At least Pakistanis can convince themselves .
> We dont have any problem after all our objectives completed and got additional bonus .
> 
> What Alan Warnes ?
> A UK imported equivalent of our Ajay Shukla .



Yes, all four trees and a crow were surgically targeted. Such lofty goals of the IAF. As an additional bonus, one of your guys gained the expertise of MS PAINT for making radar images so it’s a win-win for you guys. 

Alan Warnes is much more authentic than the constant frothing-at-the-mouth indian media.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ali Tariq

With such mindset, I don't think indians are going to believe anything. Even if the indian CAS admit that they lose of 27 Feb, indians will start abusing him.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakstallion

The Eagle said:


> Wait a minute as . Undecided.
> 
> 
> Balakot was not hit but then again, 300+ were killed. Indian Media Mistake.
> BJP says no casualties were intended hence, no kill but delivered the message. Minister Mistake.
> IAF did not reach Balakot but SOW launched due to wind. Nature Mistake.
> Spice-2000 is an AI bomb, goes in without *crater damage *& eliminate targets. Alleged Camp Mistake.
> Spice 2000 is not a Bomb but a Kit. Professionals Mistake.
> Initial provided Balakot SAT images proven fake/stolen. Google Earth etc Mistake.
> Indian FM relies on SAT images on Social Media, proven wrong/old. Social Media Mistake.
> PAF retaliated at Six Points inside IoK. Israeli Defence Equipment Mistake.
> India doesn't have Rafale to counter PAF. France Mistake.
> MI-17V5 was hit by Israeli SAM.. Israeli Mistake.
> MI-17V5 pilot did not follow SOP claimed six lives. Pilot Mistake.
> Abhinandan did not follow SOP & disobeyed direct orders. Abhinandan Mistake.
> All Indian AWACs were in shift change/Turn around/Change over/Tarmac. AWACs mistake.
> No AWACs but images are available, proven to be doctored. Photo Shop Mistake.
> An AMRAAM Piece is found & not the F-16 wreckage/loss/even a single bolt. PAF Mistake.
> Int'l Observers confirms PAF F-16 fleet count/all accounted for. US, Pentagon, Source Mistake.
> Sweden provided SAAB AW&EC birds. Sweden Mistake.
> F-16 were used. US Mistake.
> SU MKI can dodge 6 AMRAAMs but did not take a single shot. Russian Mistake.
> SU-30 MKI crashed on the same time/day & claimed to be Tech Failure. Russian Mistake.
> Abhinandan did not fire single missile. PAF or Russia Mistake.
> Alan Warnes interviewed CAS, provided with Proof. Alan Warnes mistake.
> 
> See India has nothing to do with this all as it is always others mistake. And if Modi does it again, will be beaten Black & Blue again like this. The said "If" has nothing to do with the fact rather Modi's own game killing own Military for Election. IoK & youth rise is what Indian Army sowed for.



This post is a surgical strike in the hearts of the indians.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Secret Service

SSGcommandoPAK said:


> nop If I was a real SSG would I have time to do all this ?


i doubt.


----------



## Riz

Irfan Baloch said:


> Mastan is pragmatic not emotional
> He gives alternate view and in case you missed he is praising PAF and chinese tech


You are right @MastanKhan is not a fan boy but an expert ..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Riz said:


> Its loud and clear from day 1 that JF-17 is the one who shot downs a SU-30.. Ab jitna rona ha tu ro lay..


Nai F 7 PG ne shot down kiya tha SU 30. khush??


----------



## criticalerror

As a newbie, can someone explain to me what kind of potential evidence we may have of the SU-30 kill?


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

criticalerror said:


> As a newbie, can someone explain to me what kind of potential evidence we may have of the SU-30 kill?


Engagement video maybe. Radar signatures


----------



## Shane

SrNair said:


> Radar screen shot or probably the photo of radar screen was already showed as proof by IAF .
> But PAF is an official word .


Let's talk about credibility, PAF v IAF.

Have you analysed IAF's claims about F16: Radar Screens vs What PAF has in its possession i.e. The Downed Mig21 wreckage (along with unfired missiles).

The credibility of IAF went down the drain the moment it shifted it's claim from "Ground fire scored an F16" on the 27th...to "Abhinandan shot F16 before going down" as an afterthought later.






To add insult to injury, IAF claims to have Shot F16 with unfired missile from Abhinandan's Mig, lol? What an obnoxious proof, lol.

On both counts of hilarious claims, it was enough to prove to the world that IAF leadership has tripped over it's own feet in siding with Modi and trying to give him a downed F16, something to show for his elections sake.

Now that PAF has established it's credibility vs IAF who has lost it due to their political idiosyncrasies, you can go ahead and stand in the corner to cry as much as you like dear but no matter how much you point your wand in the air, whatever comes out shall continue to drench none but yourself. 

PAF has come out on top, it is as simple as that.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## criticalerror

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Engagement video maybe. Radar signatures



It was a beyond visual range engagement so how does that work? Engagement video i mean. Radar signatures are authentic but I don’t think they can confirm a kill? Just my opinion.


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> No evidence buy confirmation from a PAF pilot




Okay.


----------



## LeGenD

NA71 said:


> Dear Hammad, plz calm down.....I offer sorry from PDF if anything hurts you.... please members gali dey do but Indian ka lable na lago...kissi par.


So true man.

Being a Pakistani national, I can take a bit of abuse, but being labeled an Indian or a traitor by another over some difference of opinion? Well, say it to my face. Majority of Pakistani will not tolerate this kind of insult in person.

I can clearly understand the sentiment.

I have met, and know people, who have views which will not be well-received on PDF, but this does not make them a lesser Pakistani then me - they might be more productive citizens than me or many on PDF in real life.

TOLERANCE is the name of the game.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Shane

Windjammer said:


> No, what Alan is saying is that he has been given/shown the proof but he is not going to release/share everything on the Twitter......


That's trolling at its best, lol, and probably excellent marketing for an upcoming project. Alan may have been asked by ACM to wait for PAF's que to disclose what was shared with him. I think he may end up writing a book about it to good effect.


----------



## NA71

The Eagle said:


> Wait a minute as . Undecided.
> 
> 
> Balakot was not hit but then again, 300+ were killed. Indian Media Mistake.
> BJP says no casualties were intended hence, no kill but delivered the message. Minister Mistake.
> IAF did not reach Balakot but SOW launched due to wind. Nature Mistake.
> Spice-2000 is an AI bomb, goes in without *crater damage *& eliminate targets. Alleged Camp Mistake.
> Spice 2000 is not a Bomb but a Kit. Professionals Mistake.
> Initial provided Balakot SAT images proven fake/stolen. Google Earth etc Mistake.
> Indian FM relies on SAT images on Social Media, proven wrong/old. Social Media Mistake.
> PAF retaliated at Six Points inside IoK. Israeli Defence Equipment Mistake.
> India doesn't have Rafale to counter PAF. France Mistake.
> MI-17V5 was hit by Israeli SAM.. Israeli Mistake.
> MI-17V5 pilot did not follow SOP claimed six lives. Pilot Mistake.
> Abhinandan did not follow SOP & disobeyed direct orders. Abhinandan Mistake.
> All Indian AWACs were in shift change/Turn around/Change over/Tarmac. AWACs mistake.
> No AWACs but images are available, proven to be doctored. Photo Shop Mistake.
> An AMRAAM Piece is found & not the F-16 wreckage/loss/even a single bolt. PAF Mistake.
> Int'l Observers confirms PAF F-16 fleet count/all accounted for. US, Pentagon, Source Mistake.
> Sweden provided SAAB AW&EC birds. Sweden Mistake.
> F-16 were used. US Mistake.
> SU MKI can dodge 6 AMRAAMs but did not take a single shot. Russian Mistake.
> SU-30 MKI crashed on the same time/day & claimed to be Tech Failure. Russian Mistake.
> Abhinandan did not fire single missile. PAF or Russia Mistake.
> Alan Warnes interviewed CAS, provided with Proof. Alan Warnes mistake.


 with your permission I would use these bullet points on twitter ....cannot summarize better than this. Ijazat hey?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

LeGenD said:


> So true man.
> 
> Being a Pakistani national, I can take a bit of abuse, but being labeled an Indian or a traitor by another over some difference of opinion? Well, say it to my face. Majority of Pakistani will not tolerate this kind of insult in person.
> 
> I can clearly understand the sentiment.
> 
> I have met and know people who have views which will not be well-received on PDF, but this does not make them a lesser Pakistani then me - they might be more productive citizens then me or many on PDF in real life.
> 
> TOLERANCE is the name of the game.


O bhai mujhe pehle bola tha usne Indian



criticalerror said:


> It was a beyond visual range engagement so how does that work? Engagement video i mean. Radar signatures are authentic but I don’t think they can confirm a kill? Just my opinion.


Maybe shooting of the missile


----------



## war&peace

Evora said:


> Bro send me your mailing address i want to send you sweets(jameel sweet ki mithai ka tokra with piste wali barfi)


bhai yeh offer hamaray liye bhi hai

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## El Sidd

Will Iran still buy the Su-30?


----------



## The Eagle

LeGenD said:


> ISPR initially denied involvement of F-16 aircraft in recent clashes with Indian Air Force at any capacity



ISPR said F-16s were not the part of (Strike Package). Strike Package that delivered surprise inside IoK. Indeed, F-16s etc were in the air in-case of any intrusion, well Indian did and got the answer.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## LeGenD

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> O bhai mujhe pehle bola tha usne Indian


Merey bhai, mein ney aap ko kuch nahin kaha... LOL

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Falcon26

war&peace said:


> Sir..not anymore..



Why not? Has any new evidence come out?


----------



## Trailer23

airomerix said:


> S/L Hassan is a CCS Instructor since a few months now.


You're telling me. The guy who took this frame (below) out from a music video & posted it over a month back.








airomerix said:


> Same goes for Wg Cmdr Nauman. The people who are connected with Air Force know what's what.


The first person who posted these videos (below).


Trailer23 said:


> Here guys...see who flew the Air Chief Marshall in last years (2018) 23rd March Flay Past in the F-16.
> 
> *Check Timescodes:*
> *00:06* - *Wing Commander Nouman Ali Khan* putting the patch on the Air Chief Marshall





Trailer23 said:


> *00:12* - Standing next to Air Chief Marshall before the flight for the Flypast in a 2-seater F-16.


​


Trailer23 said:


> He is also part of the 3000 Flight Hours Club on the F-16​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here he (*Wing Commander Nouman Ali Khan*) is during Red Flag in 2010
> 
> *Check Timecodes:*
> *00:51* - After landing at Nellis AFS
> *01:22* - Getting ready to go on a Mission (Check the number on the F-16: *620*)
> *03:10* - After Mission - You can't see him, but again check the number on the F-16 (90*620*)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> ​



Subsequently, did some other work relating to F-16's which I got some backlash from people who appear to have connections to the PAF (also).


Trailer23 said:


> A lil' something I've been working on since earlier in the day.
> 
> Focus on the Patch on the arm & Helmet. Quite a bit of detail involved. A combination of over 25 images to make this one.
> 
> Note: Please, please no grief on why an F-16 & why an not a JF-17. And why an AMRAAM and not a SD-10. Its just a poster I designed for myself & wanted to share with you all. Enjoy...
> 
> View attachment 550275





Trailer23 said:


>


And even though I had initially felt that *an* F-16 had shot down a IAF jet, there were people who suggested otherwise. So...I let it go.​

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Tejas Spokesman said:


> So?
> Our IAF chief also reiterated the F-16 kill yesterday.
> All these reiterations from both sides have Zero value unless a neutral source supports their claims or their is evidence of a wreckage.
> 
> Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.


and washington post today again said that the news of F-16 count had not been rejected by anyone in the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Shane

SrNair said:


> At least Pakistanis can convince themselves .
> We dont have any problem after all our objectives completed and got additional bonus


Have you noticed who has been holding MsPaint drawing presentations one after the other lately as if trying it's best to convince themselves, lol?



SrNair said:


> What Alan Warnes ?
> A UK imported equivalent of our Ajay Shukla


That's Financial Post credibility to your Hindustan Times mediocrity, lol and you still don't know the difference between what's Indian and what's foreign as in independent, lol.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## LeGenD

The Eagle said:


> ISPR said F-16s were not the part of (Strike Package). Strike Package that delivered surprise inside IoK. Indeed, F-16s etc were in the air in-case of any intrusion, well Indian did and got the answer.


I am neutral in all this, my friend; never questioned involvement of JF-17 Thunder in recent clashes - these jets work as advertised. This became clear to [me] as soon as one of these shot down an Iranian UAV near Balochistan border in 2017.

My take on the issue by piecing together various bits of information from multiple sources: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jf-1...ce-f16-as-top-jet.610973/page-9#post-11327726



In any case, PAF have shown that it is up to the task at present. And I am happy with this.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TOPGUN

Tejas Spokesman said:


> So?
> Our IAF chief also reiterated the F-16 kill yesterday.
> All these reiterations from both sides have Zero value unless a neutral source supports their claims or their is evidence of a wreckage.
> 
> Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.



So, the difference is a losing sides lies verses the winning sides truth which the whole world knows about. In real life everything is not about fairy tales and Bollywood but actual events now sleep on that.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Vortex

LeGenD said:


> Thanks for the wonderful news.
> 
> I am among those people who pay close attention to official accounts, and give them the benefit of doubt by default. I do not subscribe to the mentality that official accounts are supposed to be misleading by default. However, official accounts can be censored to large extent (sensitive information withheld from public disclosures) and/or sugar-coated with narratives which might be music to public ears, and these observations are likely to fuel suspicion and/or conspiracy theories in turn.
> 
> Case in point: ISPR initially denied involvement of F-16 aircraft in recent clashes with Indian Air Force at any capacity but some voices/sources were pointing out otherwise and ISPR eventually admitted that much of PAF was active on February 28, 2019. Now some voices are asserting that F-16 were involved in shooting down Indian jets...
> 
> Well, you do the math.
> 
> Hopefully all notable developments in relation to recent clashes between PAF and IAF will become crystal clear to us all in time.




Bro, was the denial about the air air fight or only about the strikes done on the 6 targets in India ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Eagle

LeGenD said:


> I am neutral in all this, my friend



Not saying as such but I was just adding to Info. 



NA71 said:


> with your permission I would use these bullet points on twitter ....cannot summarize better than this. Ijazat hey?



With credits to (https://defence.pk/pdf/); no issue at all.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Su-30 or not, PAF has single handedly changed the geopolitics concerning Pak-India. It has induced Modi/Hindutuva to take a wrong decision of going near the "forbidden tree" following the collapse of the IAF....

_La Galibe Illallah......_

Reactions: Like Like:
17


----------



## LeGenD

Vortex said:


> Bro, was the denial about the air air fight or only about the strikes done on the 6 targets in India ?


This: https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2019/04/08/india-short-of-presenting-f-16-evidence-ispr/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## airomerix

The JF-17s were very much part of the strike package. 4 JF-17's were in the war theatre giving SD-10 radar locks to MKI's, Bisons and Mirage 2000's. They did not press the trigger. The only difference made. 

PAF is very very happy with JF-17s performance without a doubt. So are Lockheed guys with F-16s recent showdown.

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## Tariq Habib Afridi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118492116638949378
which mirage he has been talking about ?


----------



## Sabretooth

Tariq Habib Afridi said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118492116638949378
> which mirage he has been talking about ?



This one (Mirage 5);

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 1Paki$tani

Tariq Habib Afridi said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118492116638949378
> which mirage he has been talking about ?


Mirage V(5)


----------



## Tariq Habib Afridi

Sabretooth said:


> This one (Mirage 5);


oh i was thinking that we might have asked for mirrage 2000 EM


----------



## Sabretooth

Tariq Habib Afridi said:


> oh i was thinking that we might have asked for mirrage 2000 EM



Why the sad face? this is what we could afford right now. Plus they have served us well and never failed to deliver, even on the night of 27-02-2019 so cheer up.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Falcon26

There’s no question PAF won and called India’s “conventional superiority” bluff but until further evidence, treat the SU-30 claim as just that. So far, there’s no conclusive evidence of any other fighter plane coming down except the MiG-21. India’s face-saving antics are understandable but PAF shouldn’t go that route. If it believes it indeed shot down a SU-30, then it needs to back up its assertion. Simple as that.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## SIPRA

Sabretooth said:


> Why the sad face? this is what we could afford right now. Plus they have served us well and never failed to deliver, even on the night of 27-02-2019 so cheer up.



It was not night, but broad day.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CrazyZ

I long ago accepted the SU30MKI shoot down base on the circumstantial evidence. I believe PAF has definitive proof that it shared with this expert. 

These kinds of aerial battles don't happen much in modern warfare anymore. Especially when its the smaller, lesser equipped air force winning. PAF credentials will sky rocket in the rest of the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Sabretooth

RIWWIR said:


> It was not night, but broad day.



My bad.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Path-Finder

The best weapon in the arsenal of bakth cowkidar against the world is snide.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

airomerix said:


> The JF-17s were very much part of the strike package. 4 JF-17's were in the war theatre giving SD-10 radar locks to MKI's, Bisons and Mirage 2000's. They did not press the trigger. The only difference made.
> 
> PAF is very very happy with JF-17s performance without a doubt. So are Lockheed guys with F-16s recent showdown.


So, JF-17s' secrets remain locked...

_Your secrets are your prisoners, when they're out you become their prisoner - Hazret-i Ali (RA)_

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Tejas Spokesman said:


> So?
> Our IAF chief also reiterated the F-16 kill yesterday.
> All these reiterations from both sides have Zero value unless a neutral source supports their claims or their is evidence of a wreckage.
> 
> Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.



The face of a shameless ('SO')!

AbhiNoneDone did not fire a single missile meaning the 2 parachute siting belongs to Su-30MKI. 
HAVE A NICEE DAAYYYY! lol

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Irfan Baloch

Sipahi said:


> I wanted to say that PAF F16 pilots are more aware tactically.


Please explain again
What does it really mean?



Secret Service said:


> Are you real Ssg ?


Are you real secret service?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Trango Towers

loanranger said:


> The Su 30 wreckage site must have been so remote that the indian army didnot let it see the light of day.


The aircraft burning with charred indian pilot and kashmiris chanting pakistan zindabad


----------



## Trailer23

*Alan Warnes is Da Man...*

I added him in one of my (earlier) video edits. Check Timecode: *0:27* when he was standing next to our JF-17 Thunder during an Airshow.



Trailer23 said:


>

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khanivore

SrNair said:


> Fact is world already got the glimpse of the pathetic ego problem of some people.


That being the Indians. Glad you can recognize you have a problem.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hex0maniac

enough said

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Khanivore

SrNair said:


> But the desparate second phase totally exposed Pak military.


Your argument is "totally exposed" to be insignificant. Let me remind you of your IAF's "Irrefutable Evidence" which only exposed one thing: MS Paint.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Hex0maniac said:


> View attachment 553925
> View attachment 553926
> 
> enough said



I think he wanted to keep his Su-30MKI helmet in his Mig-21, he thought it would give him SU-30 power instead gave him Hawker Hunter power and got shot down

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## IbnAbdullah

Salaam



CriticalThought said:


> You have missed the point by a mile. I am talking about which PAF aircraft shot it down.



Aa. My bad. 


...


----------



## Philip the Arab

I wonder, if someone on the ground when the JF-17 was chasing down the Su-30 could have shot down the Su-30 with a Anza. It doesn't look like its flying over the flight altitude of the Anza and would have been a well earned kill.


----------



## AsianLion

Just great~ why we were sure Su30 MKI as everyone already confirmed was shot down, it was brought down by PAF Fighter jet, Indian Airforce lost two jets shot by PAF.

Finally the truth has come out, what took so long. First brilliant kill of Su30 Mki by Pakistan. Thanks to Russians who allowed to name the jet in open and expose India. Remember from start India never denied that Mig 21 Bison was the only Fighter aircraft which was shot down. And now the truth is out SU30 Mki was shot down, further injury and humiliation to India.


----------



## TsAr

war&peace said:


> Alan Warnes ... one of the most reputed sources of info
> on airforce & air warfare matters in the world
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118427653856538630
> 
> ​Lesson for all Pakistani. Guys always trust your official source. They are thorough professionals. They know what they are doing.


Its the time to Disco ......

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Crystal-Clear

war&peace said:


> I want @Indus Pakistan, @MastanKhan @BATMAN to know this news as well


wait @Indus Pakistan will come up with his bitter pessimist approach and try to coat it with reality .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khanivore

Hex0maniac said:


> View attachment 553925
> View attachment 553926
> 
> enough said


Su-30 pilot's helmet: link


----------



## Dubious

war&peace said:


> Alan Warnes ... one of the most reputed sources of info
> on airforce & air warfare matters in the world
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118427653856538630
> 
> ​Lesson for all Pakistani. Guys always trust your official source. They are thorough professionals. They know what they are doing.


But I thought mig had all its weapons in tact?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## American Pakistani

Please keep all these sources and proofs saved. Indians have a habit of lying and distorting history.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Windjammer

There is positive evidence that of the two SU-30, only one landed back at it's home base, the other either blew up or crash landed at Srinagar as it was close to that base.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## war&peace

Dubious said:


> But I thought mig had all its weapons in tact?


Yeah Mi17 was shot by another MiG21 inside IoJ&K. The MiG that entered Pakistan was downed with all its missiles unused

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## YeBeWarned

Wonderful news , made my day ... So proud of our pilots and fighter , may Allah give us victory on our enemy on all fronts .

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## NA71

@ The Eagle ...template i made for my strike on twitter ...

Reactions: Like Like:
17


----------



## Falcon26

Dubious said:


> But I thought mig had all its weapons in tact?



CAS simply added more confusion with his statement.


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Falcon26 said:


> CAS simply added more confusion with his statement.


Maybe there were more than 1 mig

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ziaulislam

Falcon26 said:


> CAS simply added more confusion with his statement.


Four things are well known 1.balakot missed per SAT images 2. Mig 21 shot down 3. Mi17 shot down by india 4. No f16 were lost per American count

The only contested issue is su30 shotdown

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## war&peace

Falcon26 said:


> CAS simply added more confusion with his statement.


No confusion at all ...


----------



## Microsoft

SrNair said:


> Lol .
> Their Air chief confirmed ,so that is right ?
> So what about the second half ?
> Bodies ,fuselage anything ?
> 
> Radar screen shot or probably the photo of radar screen was already showed as proof by IAF .
> But PAF is an official word .
> 
> 
> Fact is world already got the glimpse of the pathetic ego problem of some people.



Fact is world is buying Pakistani narrative. This is adding fuel to the fire under bharti arse!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Falcon26

ziaulislam said:


> Four things are well known 1.balakot missed per SAT images 2. Mig 21 shot down 3. Mi17 shot down by india 4. No f16 were lost per American count
> 
> The only contested issue is su30 shotdown



Agreed, but mi-17 being downed by Indian SAMs vs MiG-21 changed the dynamics a bit. For one, if downed by SAMs it establishes a successful manipulation of India’s capable air defense systems which has serious ramifications for future conflicts. If it’s downed by mig-21 it’s still bad but not as serious as exploitation of the air defense systems. 

No evidence provided for the su-30 so it is still a claim. Granted Pakistan has much better and more importantly consistent narrative backed by neutral sources, it still doesn’t help PAF’s overall credibility to make unsubstantiated claims


----------



## pkd

Alan Warnes soon to be a pariah in Gangadesh

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SABRE

Falcon26 said:


> CAS simply added more confusion with his statement.



There must be another MiG-21 involved.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Falcon26

war&peace said:


> No confusion at all ...



Mi-17 shot down by mig-21 vs Indian SAM is a big confusion. Also undercuts PAF claim of no mig-21 weapon used.



SABRE said:


> There must be another MiG-21 involved.



That clarification isn’t provided by Alan Warnes.


----------



## SQ8

Falcon26 said:


> CAS simply added more confusion with his statement.


No confusion. The mig shot down is separate from alleged shooter of Mi-17.
Although it is likely a SPYDER that got the Mi-17.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Falcon26

Oscar said:


> No confusion. The mig shot down is separate from alleged shooter of Mi-17.
> Although it is likely a SPYDER that got the Mi-17.



The tweet says mi-17 was probably shot down by a mig-21


----------



## usman012

Tejas Spokesman said:


> So?
> Our IAF chief also reiterated the F-16 kill yesterday.
> All these reiterations from both sides have Zero value unless a neutral source supports their claims or their is evidence of a wreckage.
> 
> Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.


Neutral Sources America confirmed no F-16 loss .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SQ8

Falcon26 said:


> The tweet says mi-17 was probably shot down by a mig-21


Yes, there can be more than one mig-21 airborne and there can be multiple claims on what brought down an aircraft.
I disagree with the air chief and think it could have been a Spyder sam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## war&peace

Falcon26 said:


> Mi-17 shot down by mig-21 vs Indian SAM is a big confusion. Also undercuts PAF claim of no mig-21 weapon used.


So you are saying there was only one MiG 21 in IAF fleet. I think you should update your information.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Falcon26

Oscar said:


> Yes, there can be more than one mig-21 airborne and there can be multiple claims on what brought down an aircraft.
> I disagree with the air chief and think it could have been a Spyder sam.



PAF has been silent this whole time but then the only time it speaks, it does so off the record to a British journalist. It should give the same access to its own journalists. The public has a right to know as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheDarkKnight

SrNair said:


> Lol .
> Their Air chief confirmed ,so that is right ?
> So what about the second half ?
> Bodies ,fuselage anything ?
> 
> Radar screen shot or probably the photo of radar screen was already showed as proof by IAF .
> *But PAF is an official word .*



No not just words. As has been explained to you many times: PAF F16s and their use are audited by US personnel regularly as per agreements. So a loss would be known to them - there is no hiding place here. The most recent count showed that no F16 was loss, as reported by a pentagon correspondent of Foreign Policy, Laura Seligman:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/

Inversely there is also no report from any well known western publication to contradict Laura’s story yet by stating a US count actually shows a loss - except your IAF chief with some still images of radar data ...


SrNair said:


> Like in last reply ,*everything was ok until Pak military invited foreigners to visit Balakot* after one and half month anf forcing IAF to release Radar picture this is the ego that we are telling .


Wrong:
- The second tour happend on April 11 three days after the IAF press conference which was on April 8.
- The press conference by IAF on April 8 was in response to the F16 claim being proven wrong by Foreign Policy journalist Laura Seligman on April 4:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/

So you can see who is having a hard time with their ego here - a neutral observer like US personnel counts PAF F16s physically and their result is reported by a well reputed FP journalist, and then your IAF chief calls them a liar and continues on to show radar pictures as irrefutable proof - radars as any instruments can be wrong or their data interpreted incorrectly or those pictures could just have been doctored.

You guys dont know how embarrassing IAF press conference was: consider for example a nurse who is monitoring ECG of a patient and decides to declare him dead just by looking at the monitor screen. The next day the patient is seen walking, healthy and happy with life etc, but the nurse continues to insist that the patient is still dead and shows the ECG screen shots as irrefutable proof!

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Falcon26

war&peace said:


> So you are saying there was only one MiG 21 in IAF fleet. I think you should update your information.



My information is updated. Rather than speak in codes through a foreign journalist, PAF should update it’s own people with facts and figures so the truth is established.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## valkyr_96

Dubious said:


> But I thought mig had all its weapons in tact?


Obviously we are do not know what hit that helicopter. Abhinandan had a wingman that ran back. It is clear he did not shoot anything. Though the Indian side has reported its sam targeting the helicopter.


----------



## Khanivore

Falcon26 said:


> CAS simply added more confusion with his statement.


Let's think a bit clearer. CAS was not saying Abhinandan's MiG-21 shot down the Mi-17.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zulfiqar

Windjammer said:


> There is positive evidence that of the two SU-30, only one landed back at it's home base, the other either blew up or crash landed at Srinagar as it was close to that base.




But ACM is saying that we have an SU kill?


----------



## Ghost 125

Falcon26 said:


> My information is updated. Rather than speak in codes through a foreign journalist, PAF should update it’s own people with facts and figures so the truth is established.


Since PAF had established local superiority on 27 Feb. IAF was also trying to match us aircraft to aircraft. so whatever they had in the area they made it airborne. There were definitely several mig 21s airborne over kashmir region becoz Sirinagar airforce station is home to 51 Squadron of IAF which is equiped with mig 21 bisons (abhinandan was also from 51 squadron).
i am not saying that it was indeed a mig 21 that shot down MI 17 but there is a possibility becoz the place where it fell is well within indian occupied kashmir some 120 km maybe. since abhinandan was inside pakistani airsapace so it was definitely not him so the point that his weapons were not fired still remains valid.
so that leave us with two possibilities, either a spyder or another aircraft (most probabaly mig 21beco of its proximity home base)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khanivore

Falcon26 said:


> No evidence provided for the su-30 so it is still a claim. Granted Pakistan has much better and more importantly consistent narrative backed by neutral sources, it still doesn’t help PAF’s overall credibility to make unsubstantiated claims


*For some of us, the following words confirm more than enough. Exact word for word: "The big story breaking this morning, an F-16 of the Pakistani air force shot down a Sukhoi 30MKI, the latest of India's air force." - Rahul Kanwal (Feb 27, 2019)*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118434494380425217

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mrc

Mi 17 was shot by mig 21


----------



## Khanivore

Falcon26 said:


> Mi-17 shot down by mig-21 vs Indian SAM is a big confusion. Also undercuts PAF claim of no mig-21 weapon used. That clarification isn’t provided by Alan Warnes.


Alan's not going to give the full scoop on twitter. The fact remains that the Indians say it "may" have been a FF on Mi-17. Is there a clear confirmation from India as to what exactly happened to their Mi-17? Please enlighten do us.


----------



## Windjammer

Zulfiqar said:


> But ACM is saying that we have an SU kill?


Yes but i am only explaining from what i have been told as to what possibly happened to that kill.


----------



## airomerix

Falcon26 said:


> My information is updated. Rather than speak in codes through a foreign journalist, PAF should update it’s own people with facts and figures so the truth is established.



Pakistan does not have to. Abhinandan was enough of an evidence and insult. It is not the job of Air Force officers to hold media briefings and fight this informational warfare.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khanivore

Falcon26 said:


> My information is updated. Rather than speak in codes through a foreign journalist, PAF should update it’s own people with facts and figures so the truth is established.


You seem to imply yourself that CAS was summing it up as just one MiG-21 was involved in the entire skirmish. CAS never said anything like that, according to Warnes' tweet. It's YOU who is reading the wrong signals.


----------



## airomerix

Ghost 125 said:


> Since PAF had established local superiority on 27 Feb. IAF was also trying to match us aircraft to aircraft. so whatever they had in the area they made it airborne. There were definitely several mig 21s airborne over kashmir region becoz Sirinagar airforce station is home to 51 Squadron of IAF which is equiped with mig 21 bisons (abhinandan was also from 51 squadron).
> i am not saying that it was indeed a mig 21 that shot down MI 17 but there is a possibility becoz the place where it fell is well within indian occupied kashmir some 120 km maybe. since abhinandan was inside pakistani airsapace so it was definitely not him so the point that his weapons were not fired still remains valid.
> so that leave us with two possibilities, either a spyder or another aircraft (most probabaly mig 21beco of its proximity home base)


Lets not pin all the blame on Abhinandan. 

The loss of Mi17 was possibly a groundfire or one of their own hot aircraft. Only Indians can disclose this looking at the flight data.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khanivore

airomerix said:


> Lets not pin all the blame on Abhinandan.
> 
> The loss of Mi17 was possibly a groundfire or one of their own hot aircraft. Only Indians can disclose this looking at the flight data.


Well let's not hope for too much on Mi-17's data as the black box for the Mi-17 has - very conveniently - gone missing!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SQ8

Falcon26 said:


> PAF has been silent this whole time but then the only time it speaks, it does so off the record to a British journalist. It should give the same access to its own journalists. The public has a right to know as well.


Public was given release by ISPR - Alan Warnes is not just another British journo since he has over the years built some very good relationships with the PAF and has proven capable of keeping quiet when asked.
Not to mention he has written entire books on the PAF and is otherwise well respected in the aviation journalist world.

Try releasing the news to some local journalists and they’ll add cheap animation to it and add idiotic comments to release.

After all, we already have plenty of members here who are posting two-bit youtube videos and asking questions based on them as if they are verses of the Quran

Reactions: Like Like:
22


----------



## Ghost 125

airomerix said:


> Lets not pin all the blame on Abhinandan.
> 
> The loss of Mi17 was possibly a groundfire or one of their own hot aircraft. Only Indians can disclose this looking at the flight data.


i clearly said that it wasnt abhinandan


----------



## airomerix

Khanivore said:


> Well let's not hope for too much on Mi-17's data as the black box for the Mi-17 has - very conveniently - gone missing!



Oh ofcourse. Convenient.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Falcon26 said:


> Mi-17 shot down by mig-21 vs Indian SAM is a big confusion. Also undercuts PAF claim of no mig-21 weapon used.



IAF was flying more then 1 mig-21 that day. another mig-21 shot down mi-17 or Isralie supplied Spider SAM.


----------



## war&peace

Oscar said:


> Yes, there can be more than one mig-21 airborne and there can be multiple claims on what brought down an aircraft.
> I disagree with the air chief and think it could have been a Spyder sam.





Falcon26 said:


> My information is updated. Rather than speak in codes through a foreign journalist, PAF should update it’s own people with facts and figures so the truth is established.


@Falcon26 Why are you stressing so much on an off topic discussion? PAF did not claim to have downed Mi17 since the day one and it has maintained its stance. 
Furthermore, it happened inside IoJ&K and since PAF fighters were not involved in downing of Mi17 so it does not matter that much whether it was downed by a spyder SAM or another of Indian A/Cs or even crashed due to some technical fault. BTW, I'm sure CAS would have used the word "may be" but due the twitter limit of 140 words.. Alan Warnes just left the unimportant stuff out. Anyways he will be writing a detailed article soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zarvan

Falcon26 said:


> My information is updated. Rather than speak in codes through a foreign journalist, PAF should update it’s own people with facts and figures so the truth is established.


It seems you are not unaware of Alan Warnes. He is one of the best aviation experts on face of the earth. He also has been shown proof. We are showing these proof for very good reasons

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Falcon26

Zarvan said:


> It seems you are not unaware of Alan Warnes. He is one of the best aviation experts on face of the earth. He also has been shown proof. We are showing these proof for very good reasons



Alan Warnes NEVER claimed to have been shown a proof.


----------



## Quwa

Oscar said:


> Public was given release by ISPR - Alan Warnes is not just another British journo since he has over the years built some very good relationships with the PAF and has proven capable of keeping quiet when asked.
> Not to mention he has written entire books on the PAF and is otherwise well respected in the aviation journalist world.
> 
> Try releasing the news to some local journalists and they’ll add cheap animation to it and add idiotic comments to release.
> 
> After all, we already have plenty of members here who are posting two-bit youtube videos and asking questions based on them as if they are verses of the Quran


Moreover, it's specifically Alan Warnes who's given this kind of access. 

I was at IDEAS and I know for a fact that people from other Western publications tried getting info, and the forces put as much of a distance with them as they did with most others.

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## Falcon26

war&peace said:


> @Falcon26 Why are you stressing so much on an off topic discussion? PAF did not claim to have downed Mi17 since the day one and it has maintained its stance.
> Furthermore, it happened inside IoJ&K and since PAF fighters were not involved in downing of Mi17 so it does not matter that much whether it was downed by a spyder SAM or another of Indian A/Cs or even crashed due to some technical fault. BTW, I'm sure CAS would have used the word "may be" but due the twitter limit of 140 words.. Alan Warnes just left the unimportant stuff out. Anyways he will be writing a detailed article soon.



Hopefully his article clears some of the confusion his tweets caused. And yes, facts are important. The mi-17 crash imo is more important than the mig-21 downing for obvious reasons. After the events of the 2/27th India immediately threatened to unleash missile attacks on Pakistan, this shows that whatever PAF did seriously destroyed India’s belief in its own IAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## war&peace

Falcon26 said:


> Hopefully his article clears some of the confusion his tweets caused. And yes, facts are important. The mi-17 crash imo is more important than the mig-21 downing for obvious reasons. After the events of the 2/27th India immediately threatened to unleash missile attacks on Pakistan, this shows that whatever PAF did seriously destroyed their belief in their own IAF.


Well, IAF itself is investigating and as per their initial findings it was downed by friendly fire.. further details I don't know

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## SQ8

airomerix said:


> Oh ofcourse. Convenient.


The black box may not provide anything as such to the identity of who brought it down but would provide a clue whether it was a “technical fault” or a catastrophic failure due to being hit.



Quwa said:


> Moreover, it's specifically Alan Warnes who's given this kind of access.
> 
> I was at IDEAS and I know for a fact that people from other Western publications tried getting info, and the forces put as much of a distance with them as they did with most others.


Alan tends to keep quiet on certain aspects unlike others

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## war&peace

Oscar said:


> The black box may not provide anything as such to the identity of who brought it down but would provide a clue whether it was a “technical fault” or a catastrophic failure due to being hit.


IAF has already established it was brought down by a friendly attack.


----------



## airomerix

Oscar said:


> The black box may not provide anything as such to the identity of who brought it down but would provide a clue whether it was a “technical fault” or a catastrophic failure due to being hit.



It does record the data recorded from RWR I believe.


----------



## ziaulislam

Falcon26 said:


> Agreed, but mi-17 being downed by Indian SAMs vs MiG-21 changed the dynamics a bit. For one, if downed by SAMs it establishes a successful manipulation of India’s capable air defense systems which has serious ramifications for future conflicts. If it’s downed by mig-21 it’s still bad but not as serious as exploitation of the air defense systems.
> 
> No evidence provided for the su-30 so it is still a claim. Granted Pakistan has much better and more importantly consistent narrative backed by neutral sources, it still doesn’t help PAF’s overall credibility to make unsubstantiated claims


Doesnt matter how it was shot down the fact is mi17 is down 

When it comes to su30 we have various counts thw most interesting is a bunch of Kashmiri civilian in IOK stating that a twin seater jet was confirmed down this was on indian media later dismissed as mi17 shot down but for civilians to messing up a helicopter with fighter jet and saying "sir its not a choppee but conformed jet" makes it unlikely to be untrue..

Similar huge number of witness forced IAF to chnage story of mi17 from fall to shotdown

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Falcon26

ziaulislam said:


> Doesnt matter how it was shot down the fact is mi17 is down
> 
> When it comes to su30 we have various counts thw most interesting is a bunch of Kashmiri civilian in IOK stating that a twin seater jet was confirmed down this was on indian media later dismissed as mi17 shot down but for civilians to messing up a helicopter with fighter jet and saying "sir its not a choppee but conformed jet" makes it unlikely to be untrue..
> 
> Similar huge number of witness forced IAF to chnage story of mi17 from fall to shotdown



Sorry to disappoint you but _how_ the mi-17 fell is _very_ significant that changes the entire calculus.


----------



## airomerix

Falcon26 said:


> Sorry to disappoint you but _how_ the mi-17 fell is _very_ significant that changes the entire calculus.


It only changes the calculus for IAF and not PAF. 

And how IAF undergoes changes in its command and structure due to this blunder is not our concern. We have always adopted a defensive doctrine and we always will. 

27th February was an exception.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## war&peace

@Falcon26 @Oscar 
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/j...t-down-mi-17-copter-near-srinagar/751188.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## maximuswarrior

This revelation from such an authority is a seal.

IAF is a sham.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## ziaulislam

Falcon26 said:


> Sorry to disappoint you but _how_ the mi-17 fell is _very_ significant that changes the entire calculus.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1111907248480157701

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Quwa

Oscar said:


> The black box may not provide anything as such to the identity of who brought it down but would provide a clue whether it was a “technical fault” or a catastrophic failure due to being hit.
> 
> 
> Alan tends to keep quiet on certain aspects unlike others


Yep ... and when he does speak, it usually means (besides being greenlighted) that things in that direction are quite far into motion (11th hour). That's why the news he revealed about the LIFT program was a big deal.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Evora

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118485517807517696

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Zee-shaun

I was on Mars yesterday and I have proof.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Falcon26

ziaulislam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1111907248480157701



Translation?


----------



## ziaulislam

Falcon26 said:


> Translation?


IAF pressed the wrong button to kill 6 soliders...

My point doesnt matter how ..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SIPRA

Zee-shaun said:


> I was on Mars yesterday and I have proof.
> 
> View attachment 553964



When are you holding your press briefing? You have far more credible proofs.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Oruc

NA71 said:


> @ The Eagle ...template i made for my strike on twitter ...
> View attachment 553935


can I also use it?


----------



## Zee-shaun

RIWWIR said:


> When are you holding your press briefing? You have far more credible proofs.



I am not supposed to tell.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Oruc

Falcon26 said:


> Translation?


The missile which hit the satelite was developed by Manmohan singh govt but he never claimed it. Now in the time of election to tell people that Hanuman ji has arrived Modi pressed the button to become a hero. And he also pressed one wrong button and shot down our Heli and killed 6 jawans. 
....................

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## NA71

Strife said:


> can I also use it?


Sure....@TheEagle has given permission


----------



## Khanivore

NA71 said:


> Sure....@TheEagle has given permission


Awesome.


----------



## Mutakalim

RIWWIR said:


> A linguistic correction, Sir. "Chawal" is the person, who commits "Chawlian" or "Chawlan".


Sorry, I humbly disagree. Chawal can also be used instead of chawlian or chawlain. Like, Chawal hi maari ha....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zoe Ali

Yes, there were reports of Su-30 being shot earlier as well. This was also reported by a PHD Dr in an article published on a UK based forum. 

https://strafasia.com/indias-f-16-neurosis/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Liquidmetal

war&peace said:


> They can check whatever they want... when it is height of war, things go awry ..
> Just remember these golden worlds "You didn't surprise us, but we will surprise you"


lol, surprise Indian Airfart (IAF), here's the Pak Air Force

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SIPRA

Gillani88 said:


> Sorry, I humbly disagree. Chawal can also be used instead of chawlian or chawlain. Like, Chawal hi maari ha....



Generally, it is used in plural sense. Though, your usage is also common, and hence correct. It didn't occur to me then.

Thanks for correction.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ali_Baba

Alan Warnes has opened up a hornets nest right about now, his inbox must be so full of hate and bile !!

We are all, of course grateful.

Will his article appear in Airforces Monthly magazine, or somewhere else? Does anyone know?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Strigon

A wise enemy accepts the loss and works towards making self stronger, with India, it seems like when they buy some equipment they also buy an “excuse for **** up manual”....or maybe they create one? No nation would stoop down to their level of deception and insecurity.

Now let’s really close this chapter of su30 and move on..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## AsianLion

Pakistanis just keep whipping India again and again so badly....lol. 

Pakistanis 200 million of them learned the art of bullying, making memes, whipping and humilating an enemey country India or Afganistan as a normal must do daily routine ritual.

It is so funny and seriously motivating too as together 200 million inside/overseas Pakistanis at the same time provide constant serious humiliation entertainment of india but also fun, daily table talk, collective time pass and unstoppable addictive enjoyment too.

And in the end winning collectively Psychological and perception war as well.

Pakistani just love to give psychological and butt hurt doses to India from time to time.

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## TheTallGuy

Evora said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118485517807517696



Is he saying he will move around in Pakistan? if he is! then he will be shown and count F16s as well and get good piece about Mirage/JF17 strike ops...


----------



## TheDarkKnight

Well this is not getting better now for our friends:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...al/?outputType=comment&utm_term=.d1333c39489f


----------



## Whirling_dervesh

The Eagle said:


> Wait a minute as . Undecided.
> 
> 
> Balakot was not hit but then again, 300+ were killed. Indian Media Mistake.
> BJP says no casualties were intended hence, no kill but delivered the message. Minister Mistake.
> IAF did not reach Balakot but SOW launched due to wind. Nature Mistake.
> Spice-2000 is an AI bomb, goes in without *crater damage *& eliminate targets. Alleged Camp Mistake.
> Spice 2000 is not a Bomb but a Kit. Professionals Mistake.
> Initial provided Balakot SAT images proven fake/stolen. Google Earth etc Mistake.
> Indian FM relies on SAT images on Social Media, proven wrong/old. Social Media Mistake.
> PAF retaliated at Six Points inside IoK. Israeli Defence Equipment Mistake.
> India doesn't have Rafale to counter PAF. France Mistake.
> MI-17V5 was hit by Israeli SAM.. Israeli Mistake.
> MI-17V5 pilot did not follow SOP claimed six lives. Pilot Mistake.
> Abhinandan did not follow SOP & disobeyed direct orders. Abhinandan Mistake.
> All Indian AWACs were in shift change/Turn around/Change over/Tarmac. AWACs mistake.
> No AWACs but images are available, proven to be doctored. Photo Shop Mistake.
> An AMRAAM Piece is found & not the F-16 wreckage/loss/even a single bolt. PAF Mistake.
> Int'l Observers confirms PAF F-16 fleet count/all accounted for. US, Pentagon, Source Mistake.
> Sweden provided SAAB AW&EC birds. Sweden Mistake.
> F-16 were used. US Mistake.
> SU MKI can dodge 6 AMRAAMs but did not take a single shot. Russian Mistake.
> SU-30 MKI crashed on the same time/day & claimed to be Tech Failure. Russian Mistake.
> Abhinandan did not fire single missile. PAF or Russia Mistake.
> Alan Warnes interviewed CAS, provided with Proof. Alan Warnes mistake.
> 
> See India has nothing to do with this all as it is always others mistake. And if Modi does it again, will be beaten Black & Blue again like this. The said "If" has nothing to do with the fact rather Modi's own game killing own Military for Election. IoK & youth rise is what Indian Army sowed for.


Post of the year candidate [emoji108]

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TheTallGuy

The Way things are unraveling SU-30MKI loss confirmation - No F-16 loss confirmation - one or possibly two crew in Pakistani Hands (one dead one alive or one dead only) IAF knows this what would be going for the pilots and ground crew...what is happening to moral of IAF as whole...

Again I am afraid we are to witness sooner then latter if Nazi Modi is winning for sure - Then a defection from IAF. which this Nazi Modi will make a reason to attack Pakistan as pretext ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SrNair

The Eagle said:


> Wait a minute as . Undecided.
> 
> 
> Balakot was not hit but then again, 300+ were killed. Indian Media Mistake.
> BJP says no casualties were intended hence, no kill but delivered the message. Minister Mistake.
> IAF did not reach Balakot but SOW launched due to wind. Nature Mistake.
> Spice-2000 is an AI bomb, goes in without *crater damage *& eliminate targets. Alleged Camp Mistake.
> Spice 2000 is not a Bomb but a Kit. Professionals Mistake.
> Initial provided Balakot SAT images proven fake/stolen. Google Earth etc Mistake.
> Indian FM relies on SAT images on Social Media, proven wrong/old. Social Media Mistake.
> PAF retaliated at Six Points inside IoK. Israeli Defence Equipment Mistake.
> India doesn't have Rafale to counter PAF. France Mistake.
> MI-17V5 was hit by Israeli SAM.. Israeli Mistake.
> MI-17V5 pilot did not follow SOP claimed six lives. Pilot Mistake.
> Abhinandan did not follow SOP & disobeyed direct orders. Abhinandan Mistake.
> All Indian AWACs were in shift change/Turn around/Change over/Tarmac. AWACs mistake.
> No AWACs but images are available, proven to be doctored. Photo Shop Mistake.
> An AMRAAM Piece is found & not the F-16 wreckage/loss/even a single bolt. PAF Mistake.
> Int'l Observers confirms PAF F-16 fleet count/all accounted for. US, Pentagon, Source Mistake.
> Sweden provided SAAB AW&EC birds. Sweden Mistake.
> F-16 were used. US Mistake.
> SU MKI can dodge 6 AMRAAMs but did not take a single shot. Russian Mistake.
> SU-30 MKI crashed on the same time/day & claimed to be Tech Failure. Russian Mistake.
> Abhinandan did not fire single missile. PAF or Russia Mistake.
> Alan Warnes interviewed CAS, provided with Proof. Alan Warnes mistake.
> 
> See India has nothing to do with this all as it is always others mistake. And if Modi does it again, will be beaten Black & Blue again like this. The said "If" has nothing to do with the fact rather Modi's own game killing own Military for Election. IoK & youth rise is what Indian Army sowed for.



Then and now Indian officials only have one stand irrespective whatever the medias,which is not a authority anyways.
And they still remain in that stand .

Mi heli incident CoI still going on and at glance itvwas tech glitch and now investigating a SAM launch .
It will take time to complete investigation.

Dont need to explain much about Balakot .
One and half month shut down interval and then the restricted tour speaks for itself .
Dignitaories wont speak much because they dont want to humilate their host through simple questions
We already knows that would be your responsec.
2016 attack was small.
So photo ops took after few days .
This was an airstrike so took took one and half month.

PM Modi strict order no civilian no military casualities .

There is nothing beaten black and blue here .
And you knows it more than us .
The much concerned cry of Aprilc16 to 20 says a lot .
Before Feb 26 boasting was noone cross border then Balakot happened .
Dont need to think much about it .

Modi was just delivering the promise ge made .


----------



## ziaulislam

SrNair said:


> Then and now Indian officials only have one stand irrespective whatever the medias,which is not a authority anyways.
> And they still remain in that stand .
> 
> Mi heli incident CoI still going on and at glance itvwas tech glitch and now investigating a SAM launch .
> It will take time to complete investigation.
> 
> Dont need to explain much about Balakot .
> One and half month shut down interval and then the restricted tour speaks for itself .
> Dignitaories wont speak much because they dont want to humilate their host through simple questions
> We already knows that would be your responsec.
> 2016 attack was small.
> So photo ops took after few days .
> This was an airstrike so took took one and half month.
> 
> PM Modi strict order no civilian no military casualities .
> 
> There is nothing beaten black and blue here .
> And you knows it more than us .
> The much concerned cry of Aprilc16 to 20 says a lot .
> Before Feb 26 boasting was noone cross border then Balakot happened .
> Dont need to think much about it .
> 
> Modi was just delivering the promise ge made .


As neutral observer modi failed as didnt escalate ..he should have escalated ..

1. missing all targets in balakot(per western observers) and seeing a response from Pakistan as well as escalation 
2. losing a mig21 and mi17
3. and last but not the least getting the f16 debunked by western observers simply shows it was a total failure ..

Modi should have simply escalated and punish Pakistan ..i wonder why he didnt ? Whats thought on Indian side why did he chickened out?

Forget about su30 its irrelevant 

Infact losing a mig21 mi17 or even claiming a f16 shot down or balakot strikes are all irrelevant ..the only relevant thing is that india chickened out and didnt escalate while Pakistan was ready to escalate!

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Salza

Its nearly impossible to show these Indians a mirror. They are living in their own world where as rest of the world in another. Freaken losers and A grade liars.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Thorough Pro

The same smelly didn't have the guts to ask IAF to provide the proof for the F16 claim






Path-Finder said:


> I told you the Cowkidar are coming! Mooo



Actually world got an eye full of the Indian shamelessness and an earful of the Indian lies.
And what about the second half regarding F16 claim?




SrNair said:


> Lol .
> Their Air chief confirmed ,so that is right ?
> So what about the second half ?
> Bodies ,fuselage anything ?
> 
> Radar screen shot or probably the photo of radar screen was already showed as proof by IAF .
> But PAF is an official word .
> 
> 
> Fact is world already got the glimpse of the pathetic ego problem of some people.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ziaulislam

Salza said:


> Its nearly impossible to show these Indians a mirror. They are living in their own world where as rest of the world in another. Freaken losers and A grade liars.


Surpringly even the well educated intellectuals have no guts to ask a simple question ..i mean how come they believe something like balakot strikes or f16 shot down...it is fascinating to see this behavior ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## ziaulislam

Odd thing is that it doesnt signify india loss if they lost all these plans..the fact they didnt escalates does it

It's odd why everyone is fixated on the losses and not pointing which is obvious ? I.e why did india didnt respond?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## tkmd

SrNair said:


> Then and now Indian officials only have one stand irrespective whatever the medias,which is not a authority anyways.
> And they still remain in that stand .
> 
> Mi heli incident CoI still going on and at glance itvwas tech glitch and now investigating a SAM launch .
> It will take time to complete investigation.
> 
> Dont need to explain much about Balakot .
> One and half month shut down interval and then the restricted tour speaks for itself .
> Dignitaories wont speak much because they dont want to humilate their host through simple questions
> We already knows that would be your responsec.
> 2016 attack was small.
> So photo ops took after few days .
> This was an airstrike so took took one and half month.
> 
> PM Modi strict order no civilian no military casualities .
> 
> There is nothing beaten black and blue here .
> And you knows it more than us .
> The much concerned cry of Aprilc16 to 20 says a lot .
> Before Feb 26 boasting was noone cross border then Balakot happened .
> Dont need to think much about it .
> 
> Modi was just delivering the promise ge made .




Yes we know you mallus have one stand...what else can you say other than we smashed Pakistan? If it actually was admitted that you got your ghaand kicked and then didn't have the resolve/will/preparedness to control the escalation ladder your monkey PM would be back in gujarat eating dhokla rt now.

We don't need to explain anything to you. You came, you ran, you got shot down. Come back soon and have the same outcome.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mace

ziaulislam said:


> Odd thing is that it doesnt signify india loss if they lost all these plans..the fact they didnt escalates does it
> 
> It's odd why everyone is fixated on the losses and not pointing which is obvious ? I.e why did india didnt respond?



You are level headed. 

First and foremost, do you believe there was a Jaish training camp there? If yes, then India made its point. Rest just noise. 

I do not believe there was a escalation plan from GOI. Clearly IAF/IA’s restraint and body language suggests they were ordered to deescalate.


----------



## ziaulislam

Mace said:


> You are level headed.
> 
> First and foremost, do you believe there was a Jaish training camp there? If yes, then India made its point. Rest just noise.
> 
> I do not believe there was a escalation plan from GOI. Clearly IAF/IA’s restraint and body language suggests they were ordered to deescalate.


India believes, world is inbetween (bbc hindi ) and Pakistanis dont believe it..
But how is rest of it noise ?
India attacked Pakistan and chickened out later..

pointing that india may not do it again..so no detereance was acheived whatsoever ..is this so difficult

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Microsoft

Mace said:


> First and foremost, do you believe there was a Jaish training camp there? If yes, then India made its point. Rest just noise.



The consensus seems to be there used to be a camp there over a year ago. The only point India made is they have shitty intelligence as well as shitty air force capability.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## crankthatskunk

Maarkhoor said:


> And you are sitting next to him warning him about his mistake



He lived to tell the tales. 
Super hero of Gowmata land.


----------



## Mace

ziaulislam said:


> India believes, world is inbetween (bbc hindi ) and Pakistanis dont believe it..
> But how is rest of it noise ?
> India attacked Pakistan and chickened out later..
> 
> pointing that india may not do it again..so no detereance was acheived whatsoever ..is this so difficult



India bombs Balakot.
Sushma in China announces immediate deescalation. 
ISPR announces because of bad weather none can visit the site on the day of bombing.
ISPR arranges a tour after more than a month with cute little kids reading Quran.
Only gullible people will believe nothing happened in Balakot.
On this count IAF/GOI is also guilty of not sharing images. 

On that day 2 parachutes went down from one aircraft. It has been discussed in this forum. I believe it is most likely a F16D. How many F16Ds PAF has? 8? Just line them up and that will shut up every one up including Indian def minister.



Microsoft said:


> The consensus seems to be there used to be a camp there over a year ago. The only point India made is they have shitty intelligence as well as shitty air force capability.



Even if we take your consensus word of one year ago, yes Pak is guilty of training jihadists. India has the right to retaliate.


----------



## Crystal-Clear

Mace said:


> India bombs Balakot.
> Sushma in China announces immediate deescalation.
> ISPR announces because of bad weather none can visit the site on the day of bombing.
> ISPR arranges a tour after more than a month with cute little kids reading Quran.
> Only gullible people will believe nothing happened in Balakot.
> On this count IAF/GOI is also guilty of not sharing images.
> 
> On that day 2 parachutes went down from one aircraft. It has been discussed in this forum. I believe it is most likely a F16D. How many F16Ds PAF has? 8? Just line them up and that will shut up every one up including Indian def minister.
> 
> 
> 
> Even if we take your consensus word of one year ago, yes Pak is guilty of training jihadists. India has the right to retaliate.


us already counted them plus satellite images deny indian claims.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## NA71

SrNair said:


> Then and now Indian officials only have one stand irrespective whatever the medias,which is not a authority anyways.
> And they still remain in that stand .
> 
> Mi heli incident CoI still going on and at glance itvwas tech glitch and now investigating a SAM launch .
> It will take time to complete investigation.
> 
> Dont need to explain much about Balakot .
> One and half month shut down interval and then the restricted tour speaks for itself .
> Dignitaories wont speak much because they dont want to humilate their host through simple questions
> We already knows that would be your responsec.
> 2016 attack was small.
> So photo ops took after few days .
> This was an airstrike so took took one and half month.
> 
> PM Modi strict order no civilian no military casualities .
> 
> There is nothing beaten black and blue here .
> And you knows it more than us .
> The much concerned cry of Aprilc16 to 20 says a lot .
> Before Feb 26 boasting was noone cross border then Balakot happened .
> Dont need to think much about it .
> 
> Modi was just delivering the promise ge made .



story ends here....cinema doors open....now go home.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## CrazyZ

Mace said:


> India bombs Balakot.
> Sushma in China announces immediate deescalation.
> ISPR announces because of bad weather none can visit the site on the day of bombing.
> ISPR arranges a tour after more than a month with cute little kids reading Quran.
> Only gullible people will believe nothing happened in Balakot.
> On this count IAF/GOI is also guilty of not sharing images.
> 
> On that day 2 parachutes went down from one aircraft. It has been discussed in this forum. I believe it is most likely a F16D. How many F16Ds PAF has? 8? Just line them up and that will shut up every one up including Indian def minister.


Denial is not mentally healthy. Face reality. USA counted F16 and found all of them there. Proof was provided by the PAF to this expert who solidly believes SU 30 mki was shot down. Few neutral 3rd parties believe the Indian narrative. Speaks for itself.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mace

CrazyZ said:


> Denial is not mentally healthy. Face reality. USA counted F16 and found all of them there. Proof was provided by the PAF to this expert who solidly believes SU 30 mki was shot down. Few neutral 3rd parties believe the Indian narrative. Speaks for itself.



What kind of proof was provided to Alan? 

Image like what IAF shared?


----------



## Aasimkhan

CriticalThought said:


> Tactics: Short term techniques used to win a fight or overcome immediate problems.
> 
> Strategy: Medium term devices used to win a battle or overcome problems with broader scope.
> 
> Planning: Lxong term plans used to win a war or overcome force level issues.


You are wrong
There are three level of planning
1. Tactical is short term
2. Operational is mid term
3. Strategic is long term
Planning is at all three levels. Please correct your information.


----------



## Microsoft

Mace said:


> Even if we take your consensus word of one year ago, yes Pak is guilty of training jihadists. India has the right to retaliate.



I reread the news and the camp dissolved well over 10 years ago.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/25/world/asia/india-pakistan-kashmir-jets.html
>"Western security officials have raised questions about the existence of a large-scale training camp, saying that *Pakistan no longer runs such camps* and that militant groups are spread out in small groups around the country."

India has only proven it is a mindless, belligerent golem that didn't conduct a proper investigation and risked destabilizing the region to muster up the voting base of a terrorist politician. Also that their intelligence is over a decade behind and their airforce is several decades behind.

>"India has the right to *retaliate"
*
Your statement contradicts your government/armed forces' actions due to them calling the Balakot "surgical strike" a "preemptive measure". That's also ignoring the fact no investigation was conducted into the attack they blamed on Pakistan. Have you read the interview of the kid's father 0 investigation, 0 due process and the end result is 0 credibility. It seems that Pakistan is guilty of being patient with a misbehaving child.

>*retaliate*
I am against the action that the attacker took but read the following. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...r-beating-by-troops-parents-say-idUSKCN1Q41LK

Pulwama attacker's mother:

“*He was beaten by Indian troops a few years back when he was returning from school,” she said. “This led to anger in him against Indian troops.*”

*“We are in pain in the same way the families of the soldiers are,” said farmer Ghulam Hassan Dar, adding that his son had been radicalized after police stopped him and his friends on the way home from school in 2016.*

*“They were stopped by the troops and beaten up and harassed,” Dar said, adding that the students were accused of stone-pelting. “Since then, he wanted to join the militants.”*

Now consider all the other crimes the disgusting occupation force of 700k is doing in Kashmir including rapes, mutilations due to pellet guns, etc. Now tell me what you think of "retaliate".

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## crankthatskunk

The stupid Indians have to realise two very important aspects of Alan's tweets. 

1- He quoted that the Su 30 was confirmed by CAS, no lesser man. 

2- He then in response to a tweet by a Stubborn and hard to console Indian confirmed that he had seek and shown the proofs of the kill of Su 30. 

In the presence of these two clear cut statements from Alan, only mentally deranged would argue. 
Which incidentally are most of the Indians.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Taimur Khurram

Mace said:


> Only gullible people will believe nothing happened in Balakot.



Satellite imagery, expert analysis, videos, photographs and villagers from the area all confirmed how nonsensical the Indian narrative with regards to Balakot is, immediately after the attack.



Mace said:


> Just line them up and that will shut up every one up including Indian def minister.



They've already been counted, none of them are missing. 



Mace said:


> What kind of proof was provided to Alan?



Enough to convince him, and he's a well respected individual who is also wholly neutral.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## crankthatskunk

RIWWIR said:


> 3 inches? In which state?



*All states, geographical and physical. *


----------



## mingle

crankthatskunk said:


> The stupid Indians have to realise two very important aspects of Alan's tweets.
> 
> 1- He quoted that the Su 30 was confirmed by CAS, no lesser man.
> 
> 2- He then in response to a tweet by a Stubborn and hard to console Indian confirmed that he had seek and shown the proofs of the kill of Su 30.
> 
> In the presence of these two clear cut statements from Alan, only mentally deranged would argue.
> Which incidentally are most of the Indians.


Plus Dhonna vanished Su30 from press releases also modi statements about rafale confirms everything. If there was any doubt CAS himself never said that

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## baqai

Falcon26 said:


> PAF has been silent this whole time but then the only time it speaks, it does so off the record to a British journalist. It should give the same access to its own journalists. The public has a right to know as well.



That Journalist is a defense analyst with thorough grasp on things, our criteria of journalist is being relative of xyz or being a pretty face or casting couch, would they be able to differentiate between Chaff and Flare? wish we had some knowledgeable people in media who could ask or discuss some sane questions

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## crankthatskunk

Falcon26 said:


> Mi-17 shot down by mig-21 vs Indian SAM is a big confusion. Also undercuts PAF claim of no mig-21 weapon used.
> 
> 
> 
> That clarification isn’t provided by Alan Warnes.



Sometime It baffles me. Baffles me big time. How the Indians are raised, and twisting in their thinking and characters. 

PAF only claims that no missiles were fired by Abhinonedone jet. Not just any Mig 21. 
Were there any more Mig 21 Bison in the air theater on the "bright and sunny day 27th Feb"!!!
Ridiculously stupid Indians. 

Guys mark my words, when the fog is cleared, it would be made known even Mi 17 was PAF kill. I have said it from day one. I am still convinced. 

PAF is not confirming it, because it may not have full evidence available on it. The Mi 17 was killed well inside IoK by a BVR killer. Thus, it is a possibility that PAF didn't have clear cut pic/video of the kill. Therefore, they are letting Indians claim a friendly fire incident.



Falcon26 said:


> PAF has been silent this whole time but then the only time it speaks, it does so off the record to a British journalist. It should give the same access to its own journalists. The public has a right to know as well.



You see my friend like most stupid Indians, you negate your own point. 
Even though the news came from reputable and independent source. You are still damn stubborn to accept it. 

Imagine if it came from a Pakistani journalist(s). Don't tell me you would have believed it. 
That's why I find Indians extremely cunningingly stupid creatures on planet earth.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Eagle

SrNair said:


> Then and now Indian officials only have one stand irrespective whatever the medias,which is not a authority anyways.
> And they still remain in that stand .
> 
> Mi heli incident CoI still going on and at glance itvwas tech glitch and now investigating a SAM launch .
> It will take time to complete investigation.
> 
> Dont need to explain much about Balakot .
> One and half month shut down interval and then the restricted tour speaks for itself .
> Dignitaories wont speak much because they dont want to humilate their host through simple questions
> We already knows that would be your responsec.
> 2016 attack was small.
> So photo ops took after few days .
> This was an airstrike so took took one and half month.
> 
> PM Modi strict order no civilian no military casualities .
> 
> There is nothing beaten black and blue here .
> And you knows it more than us .
> The much concerned cry of Aprilc16 to 20 says a lot .
> Before Feb 26 boasting was noone cross border then Balakot happened .
> Dont need to think much about it .
> 
> Modi was just delivering the promise ge made .



You will be lynched and be called traitor if you dare speak truth but I understand hence, wouldn't ask to be logical. 

Read my quoted post again and will remain valid. Modi has the versions and all you did, repeat the same. Once India started to roll over, it became so clear even for foreign observers hence, no one buying Indian narrative nor supports. 

By the way BBC reporter was right there, at balakot on 5th day of Indian intrusion. Yeah, it's better called infusion/air space violation. Had the India claimed Air Space Violation a success, even we wouldn't be denying that. The so-called modi strict order is what I said in one of bullet points that Indians themselves are not sure what they hit or even killed. The way India claimed 300+ casualties for a night raid, itself is yet another embarrassment. 

Take some rest and vote modi as I have no issue as India does so. But at least, stop repeating the same thing again and again. 

Modi indeed deliver the promise by fooling populace, yet again. 

See ,it's again SAM mistake, Observers mistake, Heli mistake, foreign sources mistake, Balakot mistake, promise mistake and so on.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Mace

Taimur Khurram said:


> Satellite imagery, expert analysis, videos, photographs and villagers from the area all confirmed how nonsensical the Indian narrative with regards to Balakot is, immediately after the attack.
> 
> 
> 
> They've already been counted, none of them are missing.
> 
> 
> 
> Enough to convince him, and he's a well respected individual who is also wholly neutral.



He take’s CAS’s word that no F16s were lost. Neutral how???

By the looks of it the rest is CAS’s narrative too.

Line up the 8 F16Ds dude.


----------



## Taimur Khurram

Mace said:


> He take’s CAS’s word that no F16s were lost.



He clearly stated that he was given evidence. And do you really think he just took his word? If so, what would be the point of asking him in the first place? The Pakistani military has already confirmed it multiple times in multiple different ways. 



Mace said:


> Neutral how???



Are you serious? 



Mace said:


> Line up the 8 F16Ds dude.



They've already been counted, not my problem if you don't know that.


----------



## The Eagle

Mace said:


> I do not believe there was a escalation plan from GOI. Clearly IAF/IA’s restraint and body language suggests they were ordered to deescalate.



Good for Indian election campaign but in reality neither IAF nor IA or even IN had anything to retain escalation ladder let alone call it de-escalation. Yes, Modi is burning inside out & so R&AW hence, full shopping spree and missing Rafale a lot. It was Pakistan that had the escalation ladder, engaged, scored and de-escalated.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Falcon26

crankthatskunk said:


> Sometime It baffles me. Baffles me big time. How the Indians are raised, and twisting in their thinking and characters.
> 
> PAF only claims that no missiles were fired by Abhinonedone jet. Not just any Mig 21.
> Were there any more Mig 21 Bison in the air theater on the "bright and sunny day 27th Feb"!!!
> Ridiculously stupid Indians.
> 
> Guys mark my words, when the fog is cleared, it would be made known even Mi 17 was PAF kill. I have said it from day one. I am still convinced.
> 
> PAF is not confirming it, because it may not have full evidence available on it. The Mi 17 was killed well inside IoK by a BVR killer. Thus, it is a possibility that PAF didn't have clear cut pic/video of the kill. Therefore, they are letting Indians claim a friendly fire incident.
> 
> 
> 
> You see my friend like most stupid Indians, you negate your own point.
> Even though the news came from reputable and independent source. You are still damn stubborn to accept it.
> 
> Imagine if it came from a Pakistani journalist(s). Don't tell me you would have believed it.
> That's why I find Indians extremely cunningingly stupid creatures on planet earth.



Lol I am not an Indian. I have already said PAF clearly and comprehensively won but that shouldn’t stop Pakistanis from asking for more evidence as it relates to the SU-30 “kill” If not, you aren’t any different than the gullible Indians who repeat the discredited lies of their government.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## The Eagle

Mace said:


> Sushma in China announces immediate deescalation.



Now that's some new addition to the Indian narrative post Balakot failure list.



SrNair said:


> Then and now Indian officials only have one stand irrespective whatever the medias,which is not a authority anyways.
> And they still remain in that stand .


See, there is no stopping to this and will continue with new stance for every new day.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Mace

The Eagle said:


> Now that's some new addition to the Indian narrative post Balakot failure list.
> 
> 
> See, there is no stopping to this and will continue with new stance for every new day.



No new additions. Not my fault if you were not keeping with the news.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/rus...ack-with-chinese-1999863?amp=1&akamai-rum=off


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Mace said:


> 1 India bombs Balakot.
> 2 Sushma in China announces immediate deescalation.
> 3 ISPR announces because of bad weather none can visit the site on the day of bombing.
> 4 ISPR arranges a tour after more than a month with cute little kids reading Quran.
> 5 Only gullible people will believe nothing happened in Balakot.
> 6 On this count IAF/GOI is also guilty of not sharing images.
> 
> 7 On that day 2 parachutes went down from one aircraft. It has been discussed in this forum. I believe it is most likely a F16D. How many F16Ds PAF has? 8? Just line them up and that will shut up every one up including Indian def minister.
> 8 Even if we take your consensus word of one year ago, yes Pak is guilty of training jihadists. India has the right to retaliate.



1. Correction, India misses its target and the world laughs at India for missing its intended target. Only pathological liar Indians believe in this story. If India had achieved its objective the western media would have been all over Pakistan.

2. what ever

3. ok

4. Yes and the visitors were also 30-50 year old grown ups with brain size of a child right? 

5. only gullible pathological liar Indians will believe India killed 300 terrorist.

6. they are guilty of many things 

7. How did you come to conclusion it was a F-16 D model and not F-16B or Mirage two seater? India claims of shooting down F-16 by Abhinonedone who has been hiding in a closet. He has not even released a statement of his achievement. Heck he did not even fire a single missile. The two parachutes belong to IAF Su-30MKI which was shot down by PAF F-16. Your su-30 mki were hiding behind Mig-21s lol.
All what IAF has to do is give ISPR (India's baap) access to IAF Su-30 inventory and let them count.

8. Against Indian terrorists army which shoots at muslim civilians and run away like cowards when Pakistan army pounds their position and b1tch at west

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GriffinsRule

The Eagle said:


> This is a total insult & disrespect to the men in service especially the one who lost his life in the line of duty. What more could be demoralizing for the soul that the fallen soldier is blamed with plain lies like this. He wasn't some junky that didn't know his Electronics that too the one who operates/fly his bird on daily basis or was he a random Taxi Drive incidentally became a Pilot hence, the habit of not turning-on the meter repeated.


Not to mention that their AWACS couldnt tell that the helicopter had just took off from their own airbase, IFF or not?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Sohail Niazai

Mace said:


> On that day 2 parachutes went down from one aircraft. It has been discussed in this forum. I believe it is most likely a F16D. How many F16Ds PAF has? 8? Just line them up and that will shut up every one up including Indian def minister.


And IAF also should line up there SU30 MKI's and count them as it also carries 2 pilots.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GriffinsRule

NA71 said:


> Indians have just started a massive anti-alan campaign on social media ....after three hours sock.


Sadly the sales of AFM and related magazines will take a hit as Indians will boycott the publications in their hissy fit and resort to reading them at bookstores. 
But they will of course not stop going to the Air Publishing forums to disgrace themselves further and sing praises of IAF and their Roona Dhoona chief



Irfan Baloch said:


> Mastan is pragmatic not emotional
> He gives alternate view and in case you missed he is praising PAF and chinese tech



Pragmatic people dont call PAF and all its officers and pilots traitors and then go even further and say that the current ACM should be court-martialed for his failure to shoot down Indian aircraft when they intruded inside Pakistan at 3am for a few minutes ... I think that is as emotional as you can get.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Sipahi

Irfan Baloch said:


> Please explain again
> What does it really mean?
> 
> 
> Are you real secret service?




https://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/08/eurofighter_beaten_by_f16/


----------



## loanranger

Falcon26 said:


> CAS simply added more confusion with his statement.


Abhinandans wing man that was also flying a mig21 probably shot the helicopter down. I can safely say he will be court martialed unless a SAM did the dirty work.


----------



## untitled

Hex0maniac said:


> View attachment 553925
> View attachment 553926
> 
> enough said


That's the cueing system for the R73. Can be used in a MiG21


----------



## CriticalThought

Aasimkhan said:


> You are wrong
> There are three level of planning
> 1. Tactical us short term
> 2. Operational is mid term
> 3. Strategic is long term
> Planning is at all three levels. Please correct your information.



Thanks. You are right.


----------



## The Eagle

Mace said:


> No new additions. Not my fault if you were not keeping with the news.



I have really lost the count of Indian narrative post Balakot drama.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SrNair

The Eagle said:


> Now that's some new addition to the Indian narrative post Balakot failure list.
> 
> 
> See, there is no stopping to this and will continue with new stance for every new day.



They have only one stance and they are still remain on that stand .
And ask DG ISPR how its look like if you change standv.
2 Indian jets down ,3 pilots captutedthen changed to one 
Again Su is shot down but no bodies no fuselage .
Pathetic



Falcon26 said:


> Lol I am not an Indian. I have already said PAF clearly and comprehensively won but that shouldn’t stop Pakistanis from asking for more evidence as it relates to the SU-30 “kill” If not, you aren’t any different than the gullible Indians who repeat the discredited lies of their government.



They were comprehensively won until they took one and half month to open the building complex and invite foreign dignatories for restricted tour .
Everyone respects their host so they showed a decency to not ask some uncomfortable question.
In 2016 it took only few days .This time it was One and half month.
What a coincidence .

Then dog fight over Kashmir .
DG ISPR said 2 Indian jets down 3 pilots captured .Later reduced to one.
Agree sometimes mistake happened in high charge environment .
Then mobile video become viral where 3 chutes deployed .
One was our pilot .
Two others ,one chutes burned and pilot fall down and probably killed and other one MIA .
Had it been a single seat ,they could have said that is JF 17 but since it twin seat (F 16 in PAF) no scope for that .
Here it comes next story ,It was Su 30 and two Indian pilots .Initially they said one pilot and half jet in Pak side and other jet and half in Indian Side .But video said otherwise .So then it becomes that one pilot was Israeli .
But that will expose them too early so they changed that .
We got our pilot and damaged Mig 21 parts .But no fuselage of Su 30 and pilots .

Everyone knows what happened out there .
But noone including us didnt want to embarass them.Yet they again askedvfor it .
Here they US suuport also .Because a third gen Mig 21 shot down their most successful modern jet F 16 that will seriously affects their business .

Then we released the picture of Awacs .
After that total silence both in US and Pakistan.



Myth_buster_1 said:


> 1. Correction, India misses its target and the world laughs at India for missing its intended target. Only pathological liar Indians believe in this story. If India had achieved its objective the western media would have been all over Pakistan.
> 
> 2. what ever
> 
> 3. ok
> 
> 4. Yes and the visitors were also 30-50 year old grown ups with brain size of a child right?
> 
> 5. only gullible pathological liar Indians will believe India killed 300 terrorist.
> 
> 6. they are guilty of many things
> 
> 7. How did you come to conclusion it was a F-16 D model and not F-16B or Mirage two seater? India claims of shooting down F-16 by Abhinonedone who has been hiding in a closet. *He has not even released a statement of his achievement.* Heck he did not even fire a single missile. The two parachutes belong to IAF Su-30MKI which was shot down by PAF F-16. Your su-30 mki were hiding behind Mig-21s lol.
> All what IAF has to do is give ISPR (India's baap) access to IAF Su-30 inventory and let them count.
> 
> 8. Against Indian terrorists army which shoots at muslim civilians and run away like cowards when Pakistan army pounds their position and b1tch at west



What is this ?
Man of the Match series.
Pathetic .
Wing Commander duty is to grab a jet and flying it as per schedule and orders .
Country giving salary to him for fighting not for talking.
For talking we have other dept there .
In IAF AM should be the spokeperson rank .
Then MEA wil take care .

Actually my mistake ,this is what an established democracy will do .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ghost 125

SrNair said:


> They have only one stance and they are still remain on that stand .
> And ask DG ISPR how its look like if you change standv.
> 2 Indian jets down ,3 pilots captutedthen changed to one
> Again Su is shot down but no bodies no fuselage .
> Pathetic
> 
> 
> 
> They were comprehensively won until they took one and half month to open the building complex and invite foreign dignatories for restricted tour .
> Everyone respects their host so they showed a decency to not ask some uncomfortable question.
> In 2016 it took only few days .This time it was One and half month.
> What a coincidence .
> 
> Then dog fight over Kashmir .
> DG ISPR said 2 Indian jets down 3 pilots captured .Later reduced to one.
> Agree sometimes mistake happened in high charge environment .
> Then mobile video become viral where 3 chutes deployed .
> One was our pilot .
> Two others ,one chutes burned and pilot fall down and probably killed and other one MIA .
> Had it been a single seat ,they could have said that is JF 17 but since it twin seat (F 16 in PAF) no scope for that .
> Here it comes next story ,It was Su 30 and two Indian pilots .Initially they said one pilot and half jet in Pak side and other jet and half in Indian Side .But video said otherwise .So then it becomes that one pilot was Israeli .
> But that will expose them too early so they changed that .
> We got our pilot and damaged Mig 21 parts .But no fuselage of Su 30 and pilots .
> 
> Everyone knows what happened out there .
> But noone including us didnt want to embarass them.Yet they again askedvfor it .
> Here they US suuport also .Because a third gen Mig 21 shot down their most successful modern jet F 16 that will seriously affects their business .
> 
> Then we released the picture of Awacs .
> After that total silence both in US and Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> What is this ?
> Man of the Match series.
> Pathetic .
> Wing Commander duty is to grab a jet and flying it as per schedule and orders .
> Country giving salary to him for fighting not for talking.
> For talking we have other dept there .
> In IAF AM should be the spokeperson rank .
> Then MEA wil take care .
> 
> Actually my mistake ,this is what an established democracy will do .



Arent you the most delusional rabid indian dog on the forum ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SrNair

The Eagle said:


> Good for Indian election campaign but in reality neither IAF nor IA or even IN had anything to retain escalation ladder let alone call it de-escalation. Yes, Modi is burning inside out & so R&AW hence, full shopping spree and missing Rafale a lot. It was Pakistan that had the escalation ladder, engaged, scored and de-escalated.



As per Geneva Conventions a country can keep captured pilot/soldier/sailor for 8 days in custody .
Then what happened to Imran .
Suddenly we could see a silent emergency in Karachi and complete shutdown of Pak Air port.
Within one day .Abhinadan came to India.
Again what a coincidence


----------



## Syed1.

SrNair said:


> As per Geneva Conventions a country can keep captured pilot/soldier/sailor for 8 days in custody .
> Then what happened to Imran .
> Suddenly we could see a silent emergency in Karachi and complete shutdown of Pak Air port.
> Within one day .Abhinadan came to India.
> Again what a coincidence


Why is Kulbushun still with us?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Falcon26

SrNair said:


> They have only one stance and they are still remain on that stand .
> And ask DG ISPR how its look like if you change standv.
> 2 Indian jets down ,3 pilots captutedthen changed to one
> Again Su is shot down but no bodies no fuselage .
> Pathetic
> 
> 
> 
> They were comprehensively won until they took one and half month to open the building complex and invite foreign dignatories for restricted tour .
> Everyone respects their host so they showed a decency to not ask some uncomfortable question.
> In 2016 it took only few days .This time it was One and half month.
> What a coincidence .
> 
> Then dog fight over Kashmir .
> DG ISPR said 2 Indian jets down 3 pilots captured .Later reduced to one.
> Agree sometimes mistake happened in high charge environment .
> Then mobile video become viral where 3 chutes deployed .
> One was our pilot .
> Two others ,one chutes burned and pilot fall down and probably killed and other one MIA .
> Had it been a single seat ,they could have said that is JF 17 but since it twin seat (F 16 in PAF) no scope for that .
> Here it comes next story ,It was Su 30 and two Indian pilots .Initially they said one pilot and half jet in Pak side and other jet and half in Indian Side .But video said otherwise .So then it becomes that one pilot was Israeli .
> But that will expose them too early so they changed that .
> We got our pilot and damaged Mig 21 parts .But no fuselage of Su 30 and pilots .
> 
> Everyone knows what happened out there .
> But noone including us didnt want to embarass them.Yet they again askedvfor it .
> Here they US suuport also .Because a third gen Mig 21 shot down their most successful modern jet F 16 that will seriously affects their business .
> 
> Then we released the picture of Awacs .
> After that total silence both in US and Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> What is this ?
> Man of the Match series.
> Pathetic .
> Wing Commander duty is to grab a jet and flying it as per schedule and orders .
> Country giving salary to him for fighting not for talking.
> For talking we have other dept there .
> In IAF AM should be the spokeperson rank .
> Then MEA wil take care .
> 
> Actually my mistake ,this is what an established democracy will do .



The problem with your narrative (other than the sad silliness) is that the entire world buy Pakistan’s narrative and dismisses yours. I agree that there’s a credibility problem here but it’s India and not Pakistan that’s facing this credibility problem.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Suriya

The Eagle said:


> Good for Indian election campaign but in reality neither IAF nor IA or even IN had anything to retain escalation ladder let alone call it de-escalation. Yes, Modi is burning inside out & so R&AW hence, full shopping spree and missing Rafale a lot. It was Pakistan that had the escalation ladder, engaged, scored and de-escalated.



Descalation happened or fatefully got a chance when Pakistan agreed to returned captured indian pilot Abhinandan immediately otherwise 27th night and 28th morning , india and pakistan was on the verge of a war . I said fatefully for it is pure chance Abhinandan survived . *Had he died , Modi would have no have left no option except retaliate .*


SrNair said:


> As per Geneva Conventions a country can keep captured pilot/soldier/sailor for 8 days in custody .
> Then what happened to Imran .
> Suddenly we could see a silent emergency in Karachi and complete shutdown of Pak Air port.
> Within one day .Abhinadan came to India.
> Again what a coincidence


----------



## SrNair

The Eagle said:


> You will be lynched and be called traitor if you dare speak truth but I understand hence, wouldn't ask to be logical.
> 
> Read my quoted post again and will remain valid. Modi has the versions and all you did, repeat the same. Once India started to roll over, it became so clear even for foreign observers hence, no one buying Indian narrative nor supports.
> 
> By the way BBC reporter was right there, at balakot on 5th day of Indian intrusion. Yeah, it's better called infusion/air space violation. Had the India claimed Air Space Violation a success, even we wouldn't be denying that. The so-called modi strict order is what I said in one of bullet points that Indians themselves are not sure what they hit or even killed. The way India claimed 300+ casualties for a night raid, itself is yet another embarrassment.
> 
> Take some rest and vote modi as I have no issue as India does so. But at least, stop repeating the same thing again and again.
> 
> Modi indeed deliver the promise by fooling populace, yet again.
> 
> See ,it's again SAM mistake, Observers mistake, Heli mistake, foreign sources mistake, Balakot mistake, promise mistake and so on.



This is also BBC .
As per this link .Noone knows what happened inside building complex after 26 feb.
Locals didnt allowed inside buulding complex .Let alone foreign jouranlists .

This is not a game .
Circumstantial evidence is the standard way to analyse after this kind of Ops .
We have technology for that one also


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Suriya said:


> Descalation happened or fatefully got a chance when Pakistan agreed to returned captured indian pilot Abhinandan immediately otherwise 27th night and 28th morning , india and pakistan was on the verge of a war . I said fatefully for it is pure chance Abhinandan survived . *Had he died , Modi would have no have left no option except retaliate .*



You lost 7 airforce personals because of PAF direct or indirect action. Modi did not do jack chit. he is just chutiya bana raha hai hindu logo ko for vote only.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SrNair

Suriya said:


> Descalation happened or fatefully got a chance when Pakistan agreed to returned captured indian pilot Abhinandan immediately otherwise 27th night and 28th morning , india and pakistan was on the verge of a war . I said fatefully for it is pure chance Abhinandan survived . *Had he died , Modi would have no have left no option except retaliate .*



Actually US ,KSA ,UAE was working overtime to avoid the situation.
Media person reported that a big screen was in that press conference room of Tri Service Chief press meet.
But at 4 :45 Imran statement come .
Then the nature of press meet change ,.
Indian CBG was deployed in North Arabian Sea .After that Karachi went in to an undeclared emergency and entirr Pak airports closed for weeks.
Means they didnt had to touch our pilot , their time was only for one day upto 5 pm.

Then our generous Pak PM arrived at 4:45pm.
Seems even China was forced to stand down


----------



## Suriya

Syed1. said:


> Why is Kulbushun still with us?


According to India Kulbushun is retired officer doing his own thing Iran while Abhinandan is a serving officer . 

Frankly i and almost all in india who wanted retaliation were hugely disappointed when pakistan announced to release Abhinandan as it meant international pressure on india to de escalate .


----------



## waz

SrNair said:


> As per Geneva Conventions a country can keep captured pilot/soldier/sailor for 8 days in custody .
> Then what happened to Imran .
> Suddenly we could see a silent emergency in Karachi and complete shutdown of Pak Air port.
> Within one day .Abhinadan came to India.
> Again what a coincidence



You're clutching at straws.....What good would it have done to keep Abhinadan for another 6 days? The world community was watching as well, Pakistan's reputation was on the line, that's why he was sent back.
It certainly wasn't because of any pending Indian retaliation.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## loanranger

What triggered the Indians this time???

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Vapnope

Pakistanis are arguing with people who, 
- Have yet to come up with any proof of 2016 surgical strikes 
- Said all our pilots and planes are accounted for when Abhi's plane and his capture videos were going viral
- Show MS paint as a proof that an F16 has been shot down 
- Claim 350 deaths in one strike and go to say we cannot say about the exact number 
- are not ready to accept any proof by Pakistan, US or any other country 

So yeah, i think it is futile to argue with them.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## The Eagle

SrNair said:


> As per Geneva Conventions a country can keep captured pilot/soldier/sailor for 8 days in custody .
> Then what happened to Imran .
> Suddenly we could see a silent emergency in Karachi and complete shutdown of Pak Air port.
> Within one day .Abhinadan came to India.
> Again what a coincidence



Only Indians can call it bravado & Jango on the same time when Pakistan followed the Geneva Convention but as said, Indians does know the art of taking full advantage of the moment, narrate a whole new twist while playing police & call it victory. Had it been any other country, will accept that Abhinandan was shot down from sky by PAF & that is the fact/strength. Keeping him was of no avail in fact what Imran Khan did, was acknowledged by world as a call for peace while on other hand Modi is yet again proven to be a warmonger in this region. Read credible sources & avoid Indian Media (reported Fake News Factory).

If India is that much strong, take Kulbhushan but he is here despite Indian begging at ICJ or even threats through air while twisting the facts, manipulating arguments & doesn't even want him back except for counselor access. 

Again only Indians are the master of fallacy as such that Karachi went dark & shut down Pakistan Air Port.... By the way decide yourself first which airport. However, that Modi was informed that you will be getting 3 for 1 missile strike & then air vented out of Hindutva balloon. As more as I read into your words; there nothing except for raising the post count, a childish measuring contest & continuous attempt to walk away. Your repeated replies/quotes are proof to that & evident to desperation. 

Vote Modi and we have no issue at all.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SrNair

Falcon26 said:


> The problem with your narrative (other than the sad silliness) is that the entire world buy Pakistan’s narrative and dismisses yours. I agree that there’s a credibility problem here but it’s India and not Pakistan that’s facing this credibility problem.



Not entire world ,only foreign medias and some OSINT .
Actually our mission was to take revenge not for PR work .And even our NSA agreed perception management wasnt their priority .And if they want they can release pictures .But they will not.Anyway that was good for us
But now check the link of BBC and Reuters ,they knows what happened in there .
.Possibly IAF forsee this situation that is why they hit nearby areas also.
Otherwise they could have claimed there was no strike itself !.
But whoever in authority they knew what happened that is why entire world worked for us and even China stayed away from it.

Had it been a Su 30 that shot down F 16 ,US didnt have any problem to agree .But this one was Mig 21 
Fact is we had innocent kids and people was also in that building complex of 10 buildings as per reports and didnt want a single civilian military casuality
Only 3 small buildings housed the terrorists .
And all three was new one and gone .That is gone .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Eagle

Suriya said:


> Had he died , Modi would have no have left no option except retaliate .



Modi is just a street bully but schooled by Pakistan, done & dusted that way he deserves. He had the chance even if Abhinandan is alive or was dead, to retaliate but he knew the more humiliation & much more destruction will decide the future of India as well. How come Modi was sure that Ahhinandan will live well in few minutes, India lost 3 birds & more than six lives.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

SrNair said:


> As per Geneva Conventions a country can keep captured pilot/soldier/sailor for 8 days in custody .
> Then what happened to Imran .
> Suddenly we could see a silent emergency in Karachi and complete shutdown of Pak Air port.
> Within one day .Abhinadan came to India.
> Again what a coincidence


kalbushan le k dikhao ager itne he powerful ho.

the fact is that we knew we had humiliated u in 2 day conflict and we wanted to put pressure on india and end it at the point where we were dominating everything.
We out smarted u.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Eagle

SrNair said:


> Noone



not even India knows as exactly what they hit, dropped or even reached at. BBC is nothing as compare to Indian delusion at all. BTW, links aren't working. Why not to say there was nothing to know because, a haste is achieved merely to reduce weight and run for the life. Keep those stories for Indian Street time chatters & feel good.



Suriya said:


> According to India Kulbushun is retired officer doing his own thing Iran while Abhinandan is a serving officer .



Another twist & addition to "undecided India" list. So now he is retired officer as well. In start, KJ wasn't Indian at all let alone officer but as India is caught lying, he was retired & migrated to Iran. What's next? Kulbhushan was abducted by Islamist & forcibly converted to Islam hence, named as Hussain M. Patel.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## SrNair

The Eagle said:


> Only Indians can call it bravado & Jango on the same time when Pakistan followed the Geneva Convention but as said, Indians does know the art of taking full advantage of the moment, narrate a whole new twist while playing police & call it victory. Had it been any other country, will accept that Abhinandan was shot down from sky by PAF & that is the fact/strength. Keeping him was of no avail in fact what Imran Khan did, was acknowledged by world as a call for peace while on other hand Modi is yet again proven to be a warmonger in this region. Read credible sources & avoid Indian Media (reported Fake News Factory).
> 
> If India is that much strong, take Kulbhushan but he is here despite Indian begging at ICJ or even threats through air while twisting the facts, manipulating arguments & doesn't even want him back except for counselor access.
> 
> Again only Indians are the master of fallacy as such that Karachi went dark & shut down Pakistan Air Port.... By the way decide yourself first which airport. However, that Modi was informed that you will be getting 3 for 1 missile strike & then air vented out of Hindutva balloon. As more as I read into your words; there nothing except for raising the post count, a childish measuring contest & continuous attempt to walk away. Your repeated replies/quotes are proof to that & evident to desperation.
> 
> Vote Modi and we have no issue at all.



Did I said anything about our strength in that reply ?
I only said what a coincidence .
Keeping Abhinadan for at least one week could have become a goldmine for PAF .
A senior officer he is ,a Wing Commander , knows lot about our AF.And you also knows that very well.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...istan-india-flight-disruption-intl/index.html
Link.

Kulbhushan Yadav where does he come from?
That guy was a business man for his own purpose .We have such crores of business men in world .
If they are in trouble GoI will help them.
We cant see any link here.

Now you are in desperation.
Prime Minister didnt said anything .
He took some decision and we saw that was effective


----------



## The Eagle

Suriya said:


> Frankly i and almost all in india who wanted retaliation were hugely disappointed when pakistan announced to release Abhinandan as it meant international pressure on india to de escalate .



Honestly, world sees India lost on every front except for home grown bravado & feel good disappointment. In fact, the whole world was watching at the so-called Asian Police/Super Power which is always ready for two front war. More honestly! India can definitely start a war but it will be then out of hands as how to end because none will be able to end it. That for sure Modi knew because he started all the drama to win an election & a WAR was not even in his dream to go for. However as the reality kicks in, he call it down same as like his bluff was called on that day. Modi should have invented/created some other reasons to win Indian election instead to beating the drum of war & being constant war monger.


----------



## Trango Towers

loanranger said:


> But Sir This video suggests that hassan was flying jf17 not f16. Unless ofcourse thats not hassan besides jf 17. Maybe the viper patch picture is an old one.


Only jf17 flew against the mig and su30. Mirages and f16s were in the air but they didnt make contact


----------



## SrNair

The Eagle said:


> not even India knows as exactly what they hit, dropped or even reached at. BBC is nothing as compare to Indian delusion at all. BTW, links aren't working. Why not to say there was nothing to know because, a haste is achieved merely to reduce weight and run for the life. Keep those stories for Indian Street time chatters & feel good.
> 
> 
> 
> Another twist & addition to "undecided India" list. So now he is retired officer as well. In start, KJ wasn't Indian at all let alone officer but as India is caught lying, he was retired & migrated to Iran. What's next? Kulbhushan was abducted by Islamist & forcibly converted to Islam hence, named as Hussain M. Patel.


*Let us know you agree to cookies*

We use cookies to give you the best online experience. Please let us know if you agree to all of these cookies.


BBC News
menu
*Balakot air strike: Pakistan shows off disputed site on eve of India election*

 10 April 2019

Asia
Share this with Email Share this with Facebook Share this with Twitter Share this with Whatsapp
_





Image captionMedia and journalists were taken to locations in Balakot
The authorities in Pakistan have allowed foreign media and defence attachés to visit the site of a disputed Indian air strike in February.

They were given access to an Islamic school in Balakot, where Indian media say militants were killed in retaliation for an attack in Kashmir.

The large building appeared to be fully intact and the Pakistani army denied it had been used as a terror camp.

The visit to the school was held on the eve of a general election in India.
_

_Pakistan PM calls for Kashmir resolution_
_What is militant group Jaish-e-Mohammad?_
_Why India and Pakistan dispute Kashmir_
_Pakistan and India have been engaged in an information war over the Balakot site, where Pakistan says the bombs on 26 February landed in an empty area and hurt no-one.

India insists it killed a large number of Jaish-e-Mohamed group militants and destroyed their camp in retaliation for a suicide attack two weeks earlier in Indian-administered Kashmir, which killed 40 paramilitary police troopers.

That attack was the deadliest against Indian forces in Kashmir in decades and raised fears of a new war between India and Pakistan, which are both nuclear powers.

*What were the media shown on Wednesday?*
Foreign journalists and diplomats were taken by the Pakistani army on the visit to Balakot in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa state.

They were shown a medium-sized crater which the army said had been made by an Indian air force bomb.






Image captionSome 200 students could be seen at the madrassa
A single house had been slightly damaged by the blast and a man had been injured, the BBC's Usman Zahid reports.

The visitors also saw some fallen trees.

They were then taken to the Taleem ul Quran madrassa, the first such visit by foreign media.






The large hilltop building is said to have capacity for 2,500 children.

Pakistani army spokesman Maj-Gen Asif Ghafoor insisted the madrassa did "no harm" and that Indian allegations that it was a terror training camp had "no truth".

Some 150-200 children could be seen reciting the Koran in a mosque at the school.

However, a teacher and a student interviewed by the BBC said they were all local people and that the madrassa had been shut since the Indian attack.

While the media were allowed to take interviews they were told to keep them short and it was clear that the tour was being restricted.

*What does India say?*
Contacted by the BBC, India's external affairs ministry said it stood by its statement last month that the "counter-terrorism strike of 26 February" had "achieved the intended objective".
_

_Modi The man who wants 900m votes_
_A really simple guide to India’s general election_
_900m voters, 39 days: 11 things about India polls_
_Modi's struggle to connect with the south_
_"The fact that media was taken on a conducted tour to the site only after a month and a half after the incident speaks for itself," a ministry official added on Wednesday.

Video captionBalakot: India launches air strike in Pakistan
When journalists from Al Jazeera visited the area - but not the madrassa - in February, they saw a sign for the school which listed Jaish-e-Mohamed founder Masood Azhar as its "leader".

The Balakot air strike has played a major role in the election campaign of Indian Prime Minster Narendra Modi who has called on first-time voters to dedicate their ballots to the pilots involved , India Today reports.

Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan told the BBC this week that peace with India over Kashmir would be "tremendous" for the wider region.

*Timeline of India-Pakistan tensions*
*October 1947: *First war between India and Pakistan over Kashmir just two months after they become independent nations.

*August 1965: *The neighbours fight another brief war over Kashmir.

*December 1971: *India supports East Pakistan's bid to become independent. The Indian air force conducts bombing raids inside Pakistan. The war ends with the creation of Bangladesh.

Video captionImran Khan told the BBC he wants a dialogue with India over Kashmir
*May 1999: *Pakistani soldiers and militants occupy Indian military posts in Kargil mountains. India launches air and ground strikes and the intruders are pushed back.

*October 2001: *A devastating attack on the state assembly in Indian-administered Kashmir kills 38. Two months later, an attack on the Indian parliament in Delhi leaves 14 dead.

*November 2008: *Co-ordinated attacks on Mumbai's main railway station, luxury hotels and a Jewish cultural centre kill 166 people. India blames Pakistan-based group Lashkar-e-Taiba.

*January 2016: *Four-day attack on Indian air base in Pathankot leaves seven Indian soldiers and six militants dead.

*18 September 2016: *Attack on army base in Uri in Indian-administered Kashmir kills 19 soldiers.

*30 September 2016: *India says it carried "surgical strikes" on militants in Pakistani Kashmir. Islamabad denies strikes took place.

*14 February 2019: *Pulwama suicide bombing kills at least 40 Indian police troopers in Indian-administered Kashmir, India retaliates with air strike two weeks later

Copyright © 2019 BBC. The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites.
_


----------



## The Eagle

SrNair said:


> Did I said anything about our strength in that reply ?
> I only said what a coincidence .
> Keeping Abhinadan for at least one week could have become a goldmine for PAF .
> A senior officer he is ,a Wing Commander , knows lot about our AF.And you also knows that very well.
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...istan-india-flight-disruption-intl/index.html
> Link.
> 
> Kulbhushan Yadav where does he come from?
> That guy was a business man for his own purpose .We have such crores of business men in world .
> If they are in trouble GoI will help them.
> We cant see any link here.
> 
> Now you are in desperation.
> Prime Minister didnt said anything .
> He took some decision and we saw that was effective



None is buying the lies anymore hence, lest not be the unwatend Radio. You are merely exposing more of Indian lies while reply for the sake of reply. KJ is in our custody and those lies of Businessman aren't sufficient. In fact India is proven as terrorism sponsor to which, from Hagel to Mattis speaks as well. We are calm and enjoying the show and in fact Modi is in desperation that went with authorizing Military fully for any action, allowing to buy more weapons & what not. 

Every day, he is introducing a new comedy in Indian Election Circus. Pakistan did not suffer the way India suffered losses due to Air Closure. Just couple of days ago, an Indian Bound flight from Dubai was returned by Pakistan. Ask the warmonger Modi to force us and change our decision. Index is there but Indian losses are more.


----------



## The Eagle

SrNair said:


> *Let us know you agree to cookies*
> 
> We use cookies to give you the best online experience. Please let us know if you agree to all of these cookies.
> 
> 
> BBC News
> menu
> *Balakot air strike: Pakistan shows off disputed site on eve of India election*
> 
> 10 April 2019
> 
> Asia
> Share this with Email Share this with Facebook Share this with Twitter Share this with Whatsapp
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image captionMedia and journalists were taken to locations in Balakot
> The authorities in Pakistan have allowed foreign media and defence attachés to visit the site of a disputed Indian air strike in February.
> 
> They were given access to an Islamic school in Balakot, where Indian media say militants were killed in retaliation for an attack in Kashmir.
> 
> The large building appeared to be fully intact and the Pakistani army denied it had been used as a terror camp.
> 
> The visit to the school was held on the eve of a general election in India.
> _
> 
> _Pakistan PM calls for Kashmir resolution_
> _What is militant group Jaish-e-Mohammad?_
> _Why India and Pakistan dispute Kashmir_
> _Pakistan and India have been engaged in an information war over the Balakot site, where Pakistan says the bombs on 26 February landed in an empty area and hurt no-one.
> 
> India insists it killed a large number of Jaish-e-Mohamed group militants and destroyed their camp in retaliation for a suicide attack two weeks earlier in Indian-administered Kashmir, which killed 40 paramilitary police troopers.
> 
> That attack was the deadliest against Indian forces in Kashmir in decades and raised fears of a new war between India and Pakistan, which are both nuclear powers.
> 
> *What were the media shown on Wednesday?*
> Foreign journalists and diplomats were taken by the Pakistani army on the visit to Balakot in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa state.
> 
> They were shown a medium-sized crater which the army said had been made by an Indian air force bomb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image captionSome 200 students could be seen at the madrassa
> A single house had been slightly damaged by the blast and a man had been injured, the BBC's Usman Zahid reports.
> 
> The visitors also saw some fallen trees.
> 
> They were then taken to the Taleem ul Quran madrassa, the first such visit by foreign media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The large hilltop building is said to have capacity for 2,500 children.
> 
> Pakistani army spokesman Maj-Gen Asif Ghafoor insisted the madrassa did "no harm" and that Indian allegations that it was a terror training camp had "no truth".
> 
> Some 150-200 children could be seen reciting the Koran in a mosque at the school.
> 
> However, a teacher and a student interviewed by the BBC said they were all local people and that the madrassa had been shut since the Indian attack.
> 
> While the media were allowed to take interviews they were told to keep them short and it was clear that the tour was being restricted.
> 
> *What does India say?*
> Contacted by the BBC, India's external affairs ministry said it stood by its statement last month that the "counter-terrorism strike of 26 February" had "achieved the intended objective".
> _
> 
> _Modi The man who wants 900m votes_
> _A really simple guide to India’s general election_
> _900m voters, 39 days: 11 things about India polls_
> _Modi's struggle to connect with the south_
> _"The fact that media was taken on a conducted tour to the site only after a month and a half after the incident speaks for itself," a ministry official added on Wednesday.
> 
> Video captionBalakot: India launches air strike in Pakistan
> When journalists from Al Jazeera visited the area - but not the madrassa - in February, they saw a sign for the school which listed Jaish-e-Mohamed founder Masood Azhar as its "leader".
> 
> The Balakot air strike has played a major role in the election campaign of Indian Prime Minster Narendra Modi who has called on first-time voters to dedicate their ballots to the pilots involved , India Today reports.
> 
> Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan told the BBC this week that peace with India over Kashmir would be "tremendous" for the wider region.
> 
> *Timeline of India-Pakistan tensions*
> *October 1947: *First war between India and Pakistan over Kashmir just two months after they become independent nations.
> 
> *August 1965: *The neighbours fight another brief war over Kashmir.
> 
> *December 1971: *India supports East Pakistan's bid to become independent. The Indian air force conducts bombing raids inside Pakistan. The war ends with the creation of Bangladesh.
> 
> Video captionImran Khan told the BBC he wants a dialogue with India over Kashmir
> *May 1999: *Pakistani soldiers and militants occupy Indian military posts in Kargil mountains. India launches air and ground strikes and the intruders are pushed back.
> 
> *October 2001: *A devastating attack on the state assembly in Indian-administered Kashmir kills 38. Two months later, an attack on the Indian parliament in Delhi leaves 14 dead.
> 
> *November 2008: *Co-ordinated attacks on Mumbai's main railway station, luxury hotels and a Jewish cultural centre kill 166 people. India blames Pakistan-based group Lashkar-e-Taiba.
> 
> *January 2016: *Four-day attack on Indian air base in Pathankot leaves seven Indian soldiers and six militants dead.
> 
> *18 September 2016: *Attack on army base in Uri in Indian-administered Kashmir kills 19 soldiers.
> 
> *30 September 2016: *India says it carried "surgical strikes" on militants in Pakistani Kashmir. Islamabad denies strikes took place.
> 
> *14 February 2019: *Pulwama suicide bombing kills at least 40 Indian police troopers in Indian-administered Kashmir, India retaliates with air strike two weeks later
> 
> Copyright © 2019 BBC. The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites._



Did anybody testify to Indian version at all? Lol.


----------



## SrNair

The Eagle said:


> None is buying the lies anymore hence, lest not be the unwatend Radio. You are merely exposing more of Indian lies while reply for the sake of reply. KJ is in our custody and those lies of Businessman aren't sufficient. In fact India is proven as terrorism sponsor to which, from Hagel to Mattis speaks as well. We are calm and enjoying the show and in fact Modi is in desperation that went with authorizing Military fully for any action, allowing to buy more weapons & what not.
> 
> Every day, he is introducing a new comedy in Indian Election Circus. Pakistan did not suffer the way India suffered losses due to Air Closure. Just couple of days ago, an Indian Bound flight from Dubai was returned by Pakistan. Ask the warmonger Modi to force us and change our decision. Index is there but Indian losses are more.


PM Modi is the Prime Minister of India 
And he took decision for country .
And foreign policy is just one part only .



The Eagle said:


> Did anybody testify to Indian version at all? Lol.



Middle part of article give you the perception among Foreign medias now


----------



## The Eagle

SrNair said:


> PM Modi is the Prime Minister of India
> And he took decision for country .
> And foreign policy is just one part only .



Keep him in India as he is only good to manipulate & warmonger more than serving the public at all. Ask minorities/low caste dalits.



SrNair said:


> Middle part of article give you the perception among Foreign medias now



A perception is only what the writer has on his/her mind. But in the end perception remains perception as compare to reality. 300+ bodies........... few trees & one crow.


----------



## loanranger

Let these Indians drown in their own ignorance. One day it will be the reason for their downfall.


----------



## SrNair

The Eagle said:


> Keep him in India as he is only good to manipulate & warmonger more than serving the public at all. Ask minorities/low caste dalits.
> 
> 
> 
> A perception is only what the writer has on his/her mind. But in the end perception remains perception as compare to reality. 300+ bodies........... few trees & one crow.



That is Indias domestic issue and politics .That is not a subject here 

Actually NSA and Foreign officials was the one coordinates evrrything as per media reports .PM was attending party meeting .
Opposition criticise him for that but they clarified that is not a big deal to address by PM



The Eagle said:


> None is buying the lies anymore hence, lest not be the unwatend Radio. You are merely exposing more of Indian lies while reply for the sake of reply. KJ is in our custody and those lies of Businessman aren't sufficient. In fact India is proven as terrorism sponsor to which, from Hagel to Mattis speaks as well. We are calm and enjoying the show and in fact Modi is in desperation that went with authorizing Military fully for any action, allowing to buy more weapons & what not.
> 
> Every day, he is introducing a new comedy in Indian Election Circus. Pakistan did not suffer the way India suffered losses due to Air Closure. Just couple of days ago, an Indian Bound flight from Dubai was returned by Pakistan. Ask the warmonger Modi to force us and change our decision. Index is there but Indian losses are more.



Loss will be there but for our industry that is just not an issue .Point was entire airport were closed


----------



## The Eagle

SrNair said:


> Actually NSA and Foreign officials was the one coordinates evrrything as per media reports .PM was attending party meeting .
> Opposition criticise him for that but they clarified that is not a big deal to address by PM



Exactly, therefore, whatever he does and said to be kept for domestic consumption as same does not bear any weight in this clash. 



SrNair said:


> Loss will be there but for our industry that is just not an issue .Point was entire airport were closed



Yeah not an issue similar SU-30 MKI is an Asian Raptor but India should have Rafale to change results on that day. What is difference in this context then,,,,, loss & "our" Industry.


----------



## SrNair

The Eagle said:


> Exactly, therefore, whatever he does and said to be kept for domestic consumption as same does not bear any weight in this clash.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah not an issue similar SU-30 MKI is an Asian Raptor but India should have Rafale to change results on that day. What is difference in this context then,,,,, loss & "our" Industry.



There would have been no problem if there was no Pulwama attack .
Prime Minister gave orders to officials to take corrective measures.Simple as that .Domestic consumption is second part .
Fact is PM will only address the nation for importance thing like ASAT test .


That is our IAF way to multiply their power and more funding for Rafale.
Same like USAF asked for more funding after 2004 Red Flag.


----------



## alphibeti

SrNair said:


> As per Geneva Conventions a country can keep captured pilot/soldier/sailor for 8 days in custody .
> Then what happened to Imran .
> Suddenly we could see a silent emergency in Karachi and complete shutdown of Pak Air port.
> Within one day .Abhinadan came to India.
> Again what a coincidence


And that you think was because of Indian pressure? My foot. Modi is biting dust at ICJ for the disgraced Indian terrorist monkey, a serving Naval commander of IN. Why Indian pressure didn't/doesn't work for that terrorist Indian officer? The release of Abhinandan was a result of well thought out decision keeping international goodwill in mind. And that worked too. Now India stands alone like a criminal while Pak is being praised and supported by every one. Releasing pilot was not important. Punishing Modi for aggression was the real goal. We did that. Why IAF planes are not coming close to the LoC after 27/2 is clear evidence of that chhatrol done to Modi. Many Indian observers think Modi has no courage, political will, and military might required to respond the India's sever beating at Pak hands on 27/2. Have balls, come in and we'll give a harder thrashing this time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Eagle

SrNair said:


> There would have been no problem if there was no Pulwama attack .
> Prime Minister gave orders to officials to take corrective measures.Simple as that .Domestic consumption is second part .
> Fact is PM will only address the nation for importance thing like ASAT test .
> 
> 
> That is our IAF way to multiply their power and more funding for Rafale.
> Same like USAF asked for more funding after 2004 Red Flag.



Why are you telling me all this again for the thousands times? he can conduct tests & do whatever for his domestic consumption and does not matter here. If you have anything valuable to add, you are welcome otherwise, respect the "Time" of ours.


----------



## Rajput_Pakistani

SrNair said:


> *Let us know you agree to cookies*
> 
> We use cookies to give you the best online experience. Please let us know if you agree to all of these cookies.
> 
> 
> BBC News
> menu
> *Balakot air strike: Pakistan shows off disputed site on eve of India election*
> 
> 10 April 2019
> 
> Asia
> Share this with Email Share this with Facebook Share this with Twitter Share this with Whatsapp
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image captionMedia and journalists were taken to locations in Balakot
> The authorities in Pakistan have allowed foreign media and defence attachés to visit the site of a disputed Indian air strike in February.
> 
> They were given access to an Islamic school in Balakot, where Indian media say militants were killed in retaliation for an attack in Kashmir.
> 
> The large building appeared to be fully intact and the Pakistani army denied it had been used as a terror camp.
> 
> The visit to the school was held on the eve of a general election in India.
> _
> 
> _Pakistan PM calls for Kashmir resolution_
> _What is militant group Jaish-e-Mohammad?_
> _Why India and Pakistan dispute Kashmir_
> _Pakistan and India have been engaged in an information war over the Balakot site, where Pakistan says the bombs on 26 February landed in an empty area and hurt no-one.
> 
> India insists it killed a large number of Jaish-e-Mohamed group militants and destroyed their camp in retaliation for a suicide attack two weeks earlier in Indian-administered Kashmir, which killed 40 paramilitary police troopers.
> 
> That attack was the deadliest against Indian forces in Kashmir in decades and raised fears of a new war between India and Pakistan, which are both nuclear powers.
> 
> *What were the media shown on Wednesday?*
> Foreign journalists and diplomats were taken by the Pakistani army on the visit to Balakot in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa state.
> 
> They were shown a medium-sized crater which the army said had been made by an Indian air force bomb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image captionSome 200 students could be seen at the madrassa
> A single house had been slightly damaged by the blast and a man had been injured, the BBC's Usman Zahid reports.
> 
> The visitors also saw some fallen trees.
> 
> They were then taken to the Taleem ul Quran madrassa, the first such visit by foreign media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The large hilltop building is said to have capacity for 2,500 children.
> 
> Pakistani army spokesman Maj-Gen Asif Ghafoor insisted the madrassa did "no harm" and that Indian allegations that it was a terror training camp had "no truth".
> 
> Some 150-200 children could be seen reciting the Koran in a mosque at the school.
> 
> However, a teacher and a student interviewed by the BBC said they were all local people and that the madrassa had been shut since the Indian attack.
> 
> While the media were allowed to take interviews they were told to keep them short and it was clear that the tour was being restricted.
> 
> *What does India say?*
> Contacted by the BBC, India's external affairs ministry said it stood by its statement last month that the "counter-terrorism strike of 26 February" had "achieved the intended objective".
> _
> 
> _Modi The man who wants 900m votes_
> _A really simple guide to India’s general election_
> _900m voters, 39 days: 11 things about India polls_
> _Modi's struggle to connect with the south_
> _"The fact that media was taken on a conducted tour to the site only after a month and a half after the incident speaks for itself," a ministry official added on Wednesday.
> 
> Video captionBalakot: India launches air strike in Pakistan
> When journalists from Al Jazeera visited the area - but not the madrassa - in February, they saw a sign for the school which listed Jaish-e-Mohamed founder Masood Azhar as its "leader".
> 
> The Balakot air strike has played a major role in the election campaign of Indian Prime Minster Narendra Modi who has called on first-time voters to dedicate their ballots to the pilots involved , India Today reports.
> 
> Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan told the BBC this week that peace with India over Kashmir would be "tremendous" for the wider region.
> 
> *Timeline of India-Pakistan tensions*
> *October 1947: *First war between India and Pakistan over Kashmir just two months after they become independent nations.
> 
> *August 1965: *The neighbours fight another brief war over Kashmir.
> 
> *December 1971: *India supports East Pakistan's bid to become independent. The Indian air force conducts bombing raids inside Pakistan. The war ends with the creation of Bangladesh.
> 
> Video captionImran Khan told the BBC he wants a dialogue with India over Kashmir
> *May 1999: *Pakistani soldiers and militants occupy Indian military posts in Kargil mountains. India launches air and ground strikes and the intruders are pushed back.
> 
> *October 2001: *A devastating attack on the state assembly in Indian-administered Kashmir kills 38. Two months later, an attack on the Indian parliament in Delhi leaves 14 dead.
> 
> *November 2008: *Co-ordinated attacks on Mumbai's main railway station, luxury hotels and a Jewish cultural centre kill 166 people. India blames Pakistan-based group Lashkar-e-Taiba.
> 
> *January 2016: *Four-day attack on Indian air base in Pathankot leaves seven Indian soldiers and six militants dead.
> 
> *18 September 2016: *Attack on army base in Uri in Indian-administered Kashmir kills 19 soldiers.
> 
> *30 September 2016: *India says it carried "surgical strikes" on militants in Pakistani Kashmir. Islamabad denies strikes took place.
> 
> *14 February 2019: *Pulwama suicide bombing kills at least 40 Indian police troopers in Indian-administered Kashmir, India retaliates with air strike two weeks later
> 
> Copyright © 2019 BBC. The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites._



Okay, have you seen the madrassa picture in this article, you are quoting?
Look closely at the cupboards. The windows...
Do you see stains?
Stains which are formed over years of use.
A normal person, not seasoned journalists could easily spot, if there is a new furniture, roof etc.
That means there is no destruction done inside this compound and there is absolutely nothing done by Pakistan in 43 days to wipe out those so called 'proofs'


----------



## Trailer23

SrNair said:


> Pak airports closed for weeks.


I noticed that you brought up PAK Airports being closed for weeks a number of times.

I'm a AirCrew Member & I operated a flight on the 6th to KHI.

So please...don't go about spreading false information about our struggles. How are your flights doing these days? Care to share the routing for New Delhi to Dubai?

Lets see how long your Economy will support your aviation industry with the high rising Jet-A1 fuel costs.

Speaking of which, how's Jet Airways keeping these days?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Bossman

Trailer23 said:


> I noticed that you brought up PAK Airports being closed for weeks a number of times.
> 
> I'm a AirCrew Member & I operated a flight on the 6th to KHI.
> 
> So please...don't go about spreading false information about our struggles. How are your flights doing these days? Care to share the routing for New Delhi to Dubai?
> 
> Lets see how long your Economy will support your aviation industry with the high rising Jet-A1 fuel costs.
> 
> Speaking of which, how's Jet Airways keeping these days?


Also the airports were not closed but rather the airspace and even that for planes flying eastward from India and mostly to hurt Indian airways by pushing their fuel cost through the roof.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Trailer23

SrNair said:


> Kulbhushan Yadav where does he come from?
> That guy was a business man for his own purpose .We have such crores of business men in world .


Funny, do all your Businessmen carry fake Passports on which they travel back & forth. And if his legal name is 'Kulbhushan Yadav', why the hell is he carrying one with a Muslim name? Converted...?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## rockstarIN

Now I have a question.

Who shot Mig 21? Sidiqqi or Ali Khan? as per new PAF narrative?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Maarkhoor

rockstarIN said:


> Now I have a question.
> 
> Who shot Mig 21? Sidiqqi or Ali Khan? as per new PAF narrative?


Ki farq paynda eyy kinay kerda jahaz sutiya but more credible sources claimed that Siddiqui shoot down SU-30 from JF-17.

There is video where you can see Thunder chasing Su-30.

And perhaps it is not BVR kill but a sidewinder hunting.


----------



## 1Paki$tani

Bossman said:


> Also the airports were not closed but rather the airspace and even that for planes flying eastward from India and mostly to hurt Indian airways by pushing their fuel cost through the roof.


Too hard for idiots to understand.

See the radar track right now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

rockstarIN said:


> Now I have a question.
> 
> Who shot Mig 21? Sidiqqi or Ali Khan? as per new PAF narrative?






Might have been one of those 300 millitants killed by the iaf in Balakot as claimed by indiot kind.


----------



## alphibeti

SrNair said:


> They have only one stance and they are still remain on that stand .
> And ask DG ISPR how its look like if you change standv.
> 2 Indian jets down ,3 pilots captutedthen changed to one
> Again Su is shot down but no bodies no fuselage .
> Pathetic
> 
> 
> 
> They were comprehensively won until they took one and half month to open the building complex and invite foreign dignatories for restricted tour .
> Everyone respects their host so they showed a decency to not ask some uncomfortable question.
> In 2016 it took only few days .This time it was One and half month.
> What a coincidence .
> 
> Then dog fight over Kashmir .
> DG ISPR said 2 Indian jets down 3 pilots captured .Later reduced to one.
> Agree sometimes mistake happened in high charge environment .
> Then mobile video become viral where 3 chutes deployed .
> One was our pilot .
> Two others ,one chutes burned and pilot fall down and probably killed and other one MIA .
> Had it been a single seat ,they could have said that is JF 17 but since it twin seat (F 16 in PAF) no scope for that .
> Here it comes next story ,It was Su 30 and two Indian pilots .Initially they said one pilot and half jet in Pak side and other jet and half in Indian Side .But video said otherwise .So then it becomes that one pilot was Israeli .
> But that will expose them too early so they changed that .
> We got our pilot and damaged Mig 21 parts .But no fuselage of Su 30 and pilots .
> 
> Everyone knows what happened out there .
> But noone including us didnt want to embarass them.Yet they again askedvfor it .
> Here they US suuport also .Because a third gen Mig 21 shot down their most successful modern jet F 16 that will seriously affects their business .
> 
> Then we released the picture of Awacs .
> After that total silence both in US and Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> What is this ?
> Man of the Match series.
> Pathetic .
> Wing Commander duty is to grab a jet and flying it as per schedule and orders .
> Country giving salary to him for fighting not for talking.
> For talking we have other dept there .
> In IAF AM should be the spokeperson rank .
> Then MEA wil take care .
> 
> Actually my mistake ,this is what an established democracy will do .


Indians and one stance? Really? Either you did smoke something strong or you shamelessly lying (latter case is more probable). Indians changed their stories not by the day, rather by the hour. Starting with hitting a 'terrorist' training center and killing 300 'terrorists' to to showing imaginary holes in the roof of madarassah building to no we didn't hit Madarassah, you tell me how many times Indians ate their their own heck? Starting with 'all our planes and pilots are accounted for' to admitting a bloody faced Abhinandan as missing and then silly claims to shooting down PAF F-16 (to cover up red-on-red on the doomed heli), how many twists one can find story? And then claiming imaginary downed F-16 to be a victim of Pak ground fire, Pak AAm, and then a missile fired by Abhinandan (the poor chap never got a chance to find a target), is all a straight stance since day one? What a shameless Indian idiot.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## PurAzamBaHadaf

The Eagle said:


> Remember on the same day/time, an IAF SU-30 crashed and it was reported due to Technical Failure as usual. The crash which was supposed to be discussed more even for the Tech error, on pretexts of MKI being a top tier platform but went under IAF drama of F-16 claim & continuous denial of loss at all. Catch the drift.



Any news link where its mentioned? I didn't find any such news or video online.



Maarkhoor said:


> Ki farq paynda eyy kinay kerda jahaz sutiya but more credible sources claimed that Siddiqui shoot down SU-30 from JF-17.
> 
> There is video where you can see Thunder chasing Su-30.
> 
> And perhaps it is not BVR kill but a sidewinder hunting.



I wouldn't trust this completely, it's hard to distinguish an F16 and JF17 from a blurry video like that. From my point of view, 
AMRAAM was fired by an F16 and it exploded as per the IAF so it hit the target. Abhis Mig21 was shot down in Azad Kashmir and if it was shot down by AMRAAM then the debris couldn't have reached IAF. JF17 cannot fire BVRs yet? at least not the AIM-120 shown by IAF so it implies another jet i.e. SU30 was hit by an Aim-120 and this can only be fired by an F16. If I got anything wrong, please correct me.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dushyant

Rajput_Pakistani said:


> Okay, have you seen the madrassa picture in this article, you are quoting?
> Look closely at the cupboards. The windows...
> Do you see stains?
> Stains which are formed over years of use.
> A normal person, not seasoned journalists could easily spot, if there is a new furniture, roof etc.
> That means there is no destruction done inside this compound and there is absolutely nothing done by Pakistan in 43 days to wipe out those so called 'proofs'


indian defence minister has already said now that the shown madarsa was not the target, the goal post has been shifted again. I do not knowwhy she did not correct media, when so called defense experts were telling on media how special bombs entered the tin roof building killed everyone inside but left the madarsa building intact ,and saying it everyday for hours for over a month ,defense minister should have corrected them and media long ago and told the nation that madarsa wasn't targeted ,bombs have been dropped elsewhere.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## alphibeti

SrNair said:


> Did I said anything about our strength in that reply ?
> 
> Kulbhushan Yadav where does he come from?
> That guy was a business man for his own purpose .We have such crores of business men in world .
> If they are in trouble GoI will help them.
> We cant see any link here.


The terrorist monkey as a business man. A lie that shameless Indians keep repeating with no avail. Let me tell you Indian dumb idiots that if an undercover agent is caught and his cover busted in an enemy country, his home country claims him as a first step to win his release. Monky's cover was smashed and he was caged by ISI but his country abandoned the that terrorist kingpin. Let me also tell you retard Indians, he is a serving IN officer of the rank of Naval Commander. After all that humiliation Indians have brought to him, the terrorist monkey will probably opt not to return to utterly foolish and bloody ungrateful Indians. Anyhow, it is the fear of Pak that Modi does not even mention that Indian terrorist monkey Jhadav. And some Indian scumbags think Modi was able to pressurize Pak to release a puppy Abhinandan.



Suriya said:


> According to India Kulbushun is retired officer doing his own thing Iran while Abhinandan is a serving officer .
> 
> Frankly i and almost all in india who wanted retaliation were hugely disappointed when pakistan announced to release Abhinandan as it meant international pressure on india to de escalate .


A person sends a strong kick right on the butts of a beggar. The beggar, instead of getting the hell lost from there, asks the man it means you will not give me any money? We kicked Modi butts hard and you are asking why we sent the downed pilot back because you expected Modi do something.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dushyant

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/sus...lakot-air-strike-2025209?amp=1&akamai-rum=off


----------



## alphibeti

SrNair said:


> There would have been no problem if there was no Pulwama attack .
> Prime Minister gave orders to officials to take corrective measures.Simple as that .Domestic consumption is second part .
> Fact is PM will only address the nation for importance thing like ASAT test .
> 
> 
> That is our IAF way to multiply their power and more funding for Rafale.
> Same like USAF asked for more funding after 2004 Red Flag.


Regardless who actually staged that Pulwama attack (there are many indications that Modi did that), that attack represents only symptoms of a disease. And that disease is illegal Indian occupation on J&K in clear violation of UN resolutions. There would have been no problem (i.e. Pulwama attack) if there was no illegal Indian occupation of J&K.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Goku-kun

rockstarIN said:


> Now I have a question.
> 
> Who shot Mig 21? Sidiqqi or Ali Khan? as per new PAF narrative?


does it matter?
the fact is that it was shot down,the fact is that Abhi none done had the most expensive tea of his life, the fact is that the price of abhi's tea was a mig-21..
what do you got?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## baqai

The Eagle said:


> I have really lost the count of Indian narrative post Balakot drama.



Even they don't remember what they said themselves thus contradictions

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Arsalan 345

Nobody outside Pakistan and India believe in their stories of f-16 and su-30 kill.i hope Americans reveal all the details some day.it is useless to give statements without any evidence.iaf radar data is also suspicious so it's better to stop claim game lol.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## alphibeti

Arsalan 345 said:


> Nobody outside Pakistan and India believe in their stories of f-16 and su-30 kill.i hope Americans reveal all the details some day.it is useless to give statements without any evidence.iaf radar data is also suspicious so it's better to stop claim game lol.


Alan warnes does. And he is world famous defense analyst. You want to close your eyes on reality, it's your own choice or may be you are mentally incapable of seeing the reality. Good luck for you. I am sure your Modi mad is poised to get more punishment at the Pak hands.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## airomerix

Arsalan 345 said:


> Nobody outside Pakistan and India believe in their stories of f-16 and su-30 kill.i hope Americans reveal all the details some day.it is useless to give statements without any evidence.iaf radar data is also suspicious so it's better to stop claim game lol.



USAF is very much on page with PAF with the events on 27th, 

The American personnel stationed in Jaccoabad did distribute and eat mithai the moment news reached the crew there.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Thorough Pro

I know you have no shame to lie in the face of truth defending other previous lies, but don't you ever get tired?




SrNair said:


> Not entire world ,only foreign medias and some OSINT .
> Actually our mission was to take revenge not for PR work .And even our NSA agreed perception management wasnt their priority .And if they want they can release pictures .But they will not.Anyway that was good for us
> But now check the link of BBC and Reuters ,they knows what happened in there .
> .Possibly IAF forsee this situation that is why they hit nearby areas also.
> Otherwise they could have claimed there was no strike itself !.
> But whoever in authority they knew what happened that is why entire world worked for us and even China stayed away from it.
> 
> Had it been a Su 30 that shot down F 16 ,US didnt have any problem to agree .But this one was Mig 21
> Fact is we had innocent kids and people was also in that building complex of 10 buildings as per reports and didnt want a single civilian military casuality
> Only 3 small buildings housed the terrorists .
> And all three was new one and gone .That is gone .

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## airomerix

Maverick_D said:


> Correction, actually at Mushaf AFB. And also sirri payee
> 
> Lets hope Yankees give us Deltas/C7s or altleast more C5s.



At Jaccoabad too bro.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## AsianLion

airomerix said:


> At Jaccoabad too bro.



Oh at Sargoda too had big mithai, .
When Mig21 Bison with pilot shot and POWed, then the covering Su30 Mki shot down with BVR missile and then the final straw in Indian hearts of debunking F16 shot down story by hundreds of international news reports after US official actual count down....the dhoti of Indians were so wet.
I saw many PAF officers laughing loud at the poor gaullible Indians claims of some mysterious F16 being shot by Mig 21...while if reality did ever had happened the same PAF officers and the nation would have been sending condolscences to the RIP F16 pilot, wreckage recovered, and world sattelite imagery all over the lost F16. None happened.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Trailer23

You guys are talking about Mithai's over there.

Hell, by the time I got back from my flight & went to all the local Pakistani Restaurants in Dubai - there were all sold out (hours ago).

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## baqai

Trailer23 said:


> You guys are talking about Mithai's over there.
> 
> Hell, by the time I got back from my flight & went to all the local Pakistani Restaurants in Dubai - there were all sold out (hours ago).



Are you a EK driver?


----------



## Khanivore

Arsalan 345 said:


> Nobody outside Pakistan and India believe in their stories of f-16 and su-30 kill.i hope Americans reveal all the details some day.it is useless to give statements without any evidence.iaf radar data is also suspicious so it's better to stop claim game lol.


Who cares. There is enough evidence for Pakistanis to believe Su-30MKI was shot down. I'm sure CAS showed Warnes that evidence.

Your own barking TV anchor, Rahul Kanwal accidentally blabbered it out live on air on that day, Feb 27. That's evidence too.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Trailer23

baqai said:


> Are you a EK driver?


FZ..., & not _the_ driver, but Crew member, nonetheless.


----------



## baqai

I think FZ is Fly Dubai? have never been on it but if you are ever on KHI-DXB will definitely take that flight


----------



## Arsalan 345

alphibeti said:


> Alan warnes does. And he is world famous defense analyst. You want to close your eyes on reality, it's your own choice or may be you are mentally incapable of seeing the reality. Good luck for you. I am sure your Modi mad is poised to get more punishment at the Pak hands.



Hahahahaha hahahaha!



airomerix said:


> USAF is very much on page with PAF with the events on 27th,
> 
> The American personnel stationed in Jaccoabad did distribute and eat mithai the moment news reached the crew there.



Okay.



Khanivore said:


> Who cares. There is enough evidence for Pakistanis to believe Su-30MKI was shot down. I'm sure CAS showed Warnes that evidence.
> 
> Your own barking TV anchor, Rahul Kanwal accidentally blabbered it out live on air on that day, Feb 27. That's evidence too.



I am not indian and I will not give any loyalty test.i am staying neutral until evidence is shared.i don't care about Rahul kanwal or bipin rawat.


----------



## Microsoft

SrNair said:


> Not entire world ,only foreign medias and some OSINT .
> Actually our mission was to take revenge not for PR work .And even our NSA agreed perception management wasnt their priority .And if they want they can release pictures .But they will not.Anyway that was good for us
> But now check the link of BBC and Reuters ,they knows what happened in there .
> .Possibly IAF forsee this situation that is why they hit nearby areas also.
> Otherwise they could have claimed there was no strike itself !.
> But whoever in authority they knew what happened that is why entire world worked for us and even China stayed away from it.
> 
> Had it been a Su 30 that shot down F 16 ,US didnt have any problem to agree .But this one was Mig 21
> Fact is we had innocent kids and people was also in that building complex of 10 buildings as per reports and *didnt want a single civilian military casuality*
> Only 3 small buildings housed the terrorists .
> And all three was new one and gone .That is gone .



You did kill a civilian when your helicopter was shot down by your own forces. Another reality check:







*humiliating episode for India*.

That's what the world thinks of your country's behavior.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khanivore

Arsalan 345 said:


> I am not indian and I will not give any loyalty test.i am staying neutral until evidence is shared.i don't care about Rahul kanwal or bipin rawat.


Yeah, but you're the same so-called "Pakistani" who disagrees outrightly about the whole Su-30 downing and quick to use Indian videos with deranged logic to support Indian wet dream of F-16 downing - which NEVER happened!

Nah, you're no Pakistani that's for sure.

I can smell your disguise, buddy. So can others here.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Arsalan 345

Khanivore said:


> Yeah, but you're the same so-called "Pakistani" who disagrees outrightly about the whole Su-30 downing and quick to use Indian videos with deranged logic to support Indian wet dream of F-16 downing - which NEVER happened!
> 
> Nah, you're no Pakistani that's for sure.
> 
> I can smell your disguise, buddy. So can others here.



i don't care what you think.people like you think emotionally and overlook theories and available evidences.nobody knows what happened on feb 27 but we can analyze videos again and again.you can say anything based on videos and radar data.i don't care if radar data is false.at least we should comment sensibly.you are like a kid who is too emotional.we are on pakistan defence forum and not on facebook.you can have different views.different views doesn't mean that you are indian or you are anti state.you can continue with your childish behavior.i think you have nothing,no knowledge.you are lurking here,questioning people and reminding them about patriotism lol.


----------



## mingle

Arsalan 345 said:


> i don't care what you think.people like you think emotionally and overlook theories and available evidences.nobody knows what happened on feb 27 but we can analyze videos again and again.you can say anything based on videos and radar data.i don't care if radar data is false.at least we should comment sensibly.you are like a kid who is too emotional.we are on pakistan defence forum and not on facebook.you can have different views.different views doesn't mean that you are indian or you are anti state.you can continue with your childish behavior.i think you have nothing,no knowledge.you are lurking here,questioning people and reminding them about patriotism lol.


He is emotional or Ur? should Air Cheif invite U on briefing and present Radar scope? If CAS claim kill its a Kill he will never claim which he himself not sure. You stay neutral ur choice fact is india lost two jets.



Arsalan 345 said:


> Nobody outside Pakistan and India believe in their stories of f-16 and su-30 kill.i hope Americans reveal all the details some day.it is useless to give statements without any evidence.iaf radar data is also suspicious so it's better to stop claim game lol.


They should share evidence on twitter or Pak def where? Both parties claim two plane shot F16 count is ok then only Su 30 left tell Us where than AMRAAM piece hit its motor part that Dhona was showing which plane got hit.??? AMRAAM never explode didn't hit he should show complete missle not exploded moter part like Pak showed Mig 21 archers

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Defense Reader

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Indeed!.........IF the Sukhoi MK-30 was shot down by a JF-17 then it means Pakistan has joined the ranks of a select few nations who can indigenously produce high tech advanced weapons systems, comparable to the best in the world. If it was shot down by an F-16 then it means the americans don't give a damn about the indians and their relationship with them.


Sir g dall main kuch tu kala hai jo uncle sam IMF k through JF 17 ki detail bhi mang raha hai

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SecularNationalist

Tejas Spokesman said:


> So?
> Our IAF chief also reiterated the F-16 kill yesterday.
> All these reiterations from both sides have Zero value unless a neutral source supports their claims or their is evidence of a wreckage.
> 
> Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.


And what about sushma swaraj from the BJP government who is now admitting that not a single pakistani was killed and you did not shoot any F-16? She is now free to speak truth because its election time and she is not under any pressure.
You people have seriously no shame ,we are giving you one proof after another and still you low IQ cowkidars will vote for BJP.


----------



## Khanivore

Arsalan 345 said:


> i don't care what you think.people like you think emotionally and overlook theories and available evidences.nobody knows what happened on feb 27 but we can analyze videos again and again.you can say anything based on videos and radar data.i don't care if radar data is false.at least we should comment sensibly.you are like a kid who is too emotional.we are on pakistan defence forum and not on facebook.you can have different views.different views doesn't mean that you are indian or you are anti state.you can continue with your childish behavior.i think you have nothing,no knowledge.you are lurking here,questioning people and reminding them about patriotism lol.


LOL! More like you just blew your top and got real emotional. 

Blabber on buddy, you're still not a "Pakistani" as you front yourself to be. I know enough to know what I'm talking about and even better, I sussed out your agenda too.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan 345

Khanivore said:


> LOL! More like you just blew your top and got real emotional.
> 
> Blabber on buddy, you're still not a "Pakistani" as you front yourself to be. I know enough to know what I'm talking about and even better, I sussed out your agenda too.



Bhai this is not your home.this is PDF.you are behaving like a kid with nothing to share, no knowledge,nothing at all.you are only doing personal attacks.i told you earlier this is not Facebook page,this is PDF.


----------



## TheTallGuy

what i don`t understand why IAF is persistent about F-16 shoot down that too be dual seat. BM or D model...Why!

if they had claimed a Mirage that to a dual seat PAF would have had problem justifying since we have many from every source and they did took part in strike. there claim would have carried more weight as @denel would tell you you need 2 seats for guidance of Raptor 1 & 2.

SO why F-16D or F-16B why PAF top fighter not thunder not mirages. Why Cant IAF settles with Mirage 2nd Tier aircraft.

And the answer is They have lost there best Su-30MKI they just cant go below that standard.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khanivore

Arsalan 345 said:


> Bhai this is not your home.this is PDF.you are behaving like a kid with nothing to share, no knowledge,nothing at all.you are only doing personal attacks.i told you earlier this is not Facebook page,this is PDF.


You're resorting to complete buffoonery now. That is a typical trait you Indians have the moment you're caught in a difficult position on anything. I caught you trying to mislead us into doubting what really happened on Feb 27 and you tried your best to make us think an F-16 was shot down by using your Indian fantasy-glazed videos of nonsense. Don't even try to pretend otherwise. *This isn't a personal attack; this is an attack on your deception on PDF.*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Arsalan 345

Khanivore said:


> You're resorting to complete buffoonery now. That is a typical trait you Indians have the moment you're caught in a difficult position on anything. I caught you trying to mislead us into doubting what really happened on Feb 27 and you tried your best to make us think an F-16 was shot down by using your Indian fantasy-glazed videos of nonsense. Don't even try to pretend otherwise. *This isn't a personal attack; this is an attack on your deception on PDF.*



it's useless discussion.i can't change your perception.you can't force me to change my views.i told you earlier that there was another jet which went down.nobody knows about the identity of this particular jet but at least there was a jet so don't believe me.check videos.i appreciate if we hit su-30 with amraam.we must show evidence so that we can humiliate india before elections.you have to take aggressive steps if you want to teach your enemy a lesson.


----------



## Vortex

Arsalan 345 said:


> it's useless discussion.i can't change your perception.you can't force me to change my views.i told you earlier that there was another jet which went down.nobody knows about the identity of this particular jet but at least there was a jet so don't believe me.check videos.i appreciate if we hit su-30 with amraam.we must show evidence so that we can humiliate india before elections.you have to take aggressive steps if you want to teach your enemy a lesson.




Arsalan 345, the game is no more between Pakistan and India, but between USA/Pakistan/Russia I think.

That’s why currently nothing will be revealed. Maybe be in the future.

Sometimes not revealing event is more valuable than revealing it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khanivore

Arsalan 345 said:


> it's useless discussion.i can't change your perception.you can't force me to change my views.i told you earlier that there was another jet which went down.nobody knows about the identity of this particular jet but at least there was a jet so don't believe me.check videos.i appreciate if we hit su-30 with amraam.we must show evidence so that we can humiliate india before elections.you have to take aggressive steps if you want to teach your enemy a lesson.


Evidence will come forward at PAF's choosing. There's rumor PAF will hold a press conf. in coming days. We'll see what is presented.

In the meantime, the CAS would not humiliate himself nor put PAF's reputation at risk by presenting nonsense to Warnes without proof and Warnes would not tweet it unless he was sure of what he heard and saw. PAF and Warnes go a long way back.

Don't forget the loud mouth, Rahul Kanwal's famous slip of the tongue on Feb 27: "The big story breaking this morning, an F-16 of the Pakistani air force shot down a Sukhoi 30MKI, _the latest of India's air force._"





That's another reason to believe an Su-30MKI was indeed shot down. Picture that in contrast to Indian nonsense regarding Su-30MKI shooting down an AMRAAM.

Pakistani military has always said they shot down 2 fighters.

It's interesting how the Indians got hold of the AMRAAM wreckage. Maybe they fished it out of their downed Su-30MKI's wreckage.

And you still hold doubts. You doubt PAF's claims? Of course you do!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GumNaam

I gotta say, I think @Khanivore has caught the false-flagger indian @Arsalan 345 by the groins, even his profile pic is an su30...

Nice catch @Khanivore, good job man,  this guy was also on twitter pretending to be a Pakistani and purposefully letting indians beat him up, something that indians tried to capitalize on but crashed and burned (partly thanks to yours truly)!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Khanivore

GumNaam said:


> I gotta say, I think @Khanivore has caught the false-flagger indian @Arsalan 345 by the groins, even his profile pic is an su30...
> 
> Nice catch @Khanivore, good job man,  this guy was also on twitter pretending to be a Pakistani and purposefully letting indians beat him up, something that indians tried to capitalize on but crashed and burned (partly thanks to yours truly)!


Thank you. Let me be clear, I'm not perfect but this guy seriously raised my alarm bells when he jumped in and tried to derail CAS's claim by posting Indian-sourced nonsense for us to think different. There's no way that should be ignored because that's highly deceptive, especially if he's pretending to be a "Pakistani".

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GumNaam

Khanivore said:


> Thank you. Let me be clear, I'm not perfect but this guy seriously raised my alarm bells when he jumped in and tried to derail CAS's claim by posting Indian-sourced nonsense for us to think different. There's no way that should be ignored because that's highly deceptive, especially if he's pretending to be a "Pakistani".


yeah, you should've seen him on twitter, being totally subservient to indian c*nts like shivaroor and saying sh!t like like "yeah, I guess your right, yeah, you probably did shoot it down, yeah the Pakistani gov must be hiding things and yeah blah blah blah bidy blah"!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Arsalan 345

Vortex said:


> Arsalan 345, the game is no more between Pakistan and India, but between USA/Pakistan/Russia I think.
> 
> That’s why currently nothing will be revealed. Maybe be in the future.
> 
> Sometimes not revealing event is more valuable than revealing it.



i agree with you.



GumNaam said:


> I gotta say, I think @Khanivore has caught the false-flagger indian @Arsalan 345 by the groins, even his profile pic is an su30...
> 
> Nice catch @Khanivore, good job man,  this guy was also on twitter pretending to be a Pakistani and purposefully letting indians beat him up, something that indians tried to capitalize on but crashed and burned (partly thanks to yours truly)!





GumNaam said:


> yeah, you should've seen him on twitter, being totally subservient to indian c*nts like shivaroor and saying sh!t like like "yeah, I guess your right, yeah, you probably did shoot it down, yeah the Pakistani gov must be hiding things and yeah blah blah blah bidy blah"!



i don't follow shiv aroor.check it by yourself.i don't care what you two think about me.you are kids lol.you both are like mad kids.so i suddenly becomes indian just because of su-35 picture lol.pathetic.
@Khanivore ap pagal ho lol.


----------



## Riz

Su-30mki shot dpwns with an AMRAAM.. It means PAF F-16s the one which scores this elephant, JF-17 shot downs nandu Mig21


----------



## HAIDER

war&peace said:


> Alan Warnes ... one of the most reputed sources of info
> on airforce & air warfare matters in the world
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118427653856538630
> 
> ​Lesson for all Pakistani. Guys always trust your official source. They are thorough professionals. They know what they are doing.


there are many ways to confirm the kill, live cam easily catch the signature of a rival plane. plus enemy satellite do daily runway counts of the enemy base, plus watch every sortie very carefully on a daily basis.


----------



## Sulemanms202

c'm on even if we hadnt had this tweet we knew judging by lack of focus on the Indian side


----------



## Evora

I reckon this is more likely SU30 2nd pilot dropped on indian side, he is not abhinandan as the locals are speaking hindi language.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GumNaam

Evora said:


> I reckon this is more likely SU30 2nd pilot dropped on indian side, he is not abhinandan as the locals are speaking hindi language.


naaah, that sounds like language from marashtra area, probably a crash related to drdo's and hal's "superb" maintenance...


----------



## Evora

GumNaam said:


> naaah, that sounds like language from marashtra area, probably a crash related to drdo's and hal's "superb" maintenance...


Maharashtra crash incident happened in june 2018. This video is uploaded on 7th march 2019. Make more sence of 7th feb skirmish.


----------



## GumNaam

Evora said:


> Maharashtra crash incident happened in june 2018. This video is uploaded on 7th march 2019. Make more sence of 7th feb skirmish.


Well regardless of the time period the language isn't even remotely close to the one found spoken around the theater of operation.


----------



## Khanivore

Found something interesting. The clip of the JF-17 "chasing" another plane at low level, which at first was presumed to be an IAF Su-30MKI, was actually another JF-17. The chasing JF-17 was his wingman.

Check the first 5 seconds of this video...








Evora said:


> I reckon this is more likely SU30 2nd pilot dropped on indian side, he is not abhinandan as the locals are speaking hindi language.


No, that's incorrect. This pilot is apparently a Jaguar pilot. Crash took place on Jan 19, 2019.






https://thedefensepost.com/2019/01/28/india-air-force-jaguar-fighter-jet-crash-uttar-pradesh/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## untitled

TheTallGuy said:


> would tell you you need 2 seats for guidance of Raptor 1 & 2.


The guidance for the H4 is optional not and a must. It is carried out if needed


TheTallGuy said:


> SO why F-16D or F-16B why PAF top fighte


This is where the IAF claim is interesting and agrees with the PAF. The downed aircraft is a 2 seater (Su30 in PAF's claim). You don't specifically claim downing of a 2 seater F-16 until you are pretty sure since most F-16s are single seaters. They wanted the aircraft to be a D model but were more than willing to settle for a B as evidenced by their post Foreign Policy article claims. And the pilot they claimed was 'lynched' was from 19 SQN which fly the B model. Indians themselves are not sure what to claim


----------



## Khanivore

member.exe said:


> This is where the IAF claim is interesting and agrees with the PAF. The downed aircraft is a 2 seater (Su30 in PAF's claim). You don't specifically claim downing of a 2 seater F-16 until you are pretty sure since most F-16s are single seaters. They wanted the aircraft to be a D model but were more be more than willing to settle for a B as evidenced by their post Foreign Policy article claims. And the pilot they claimed was 'lynched' was from 19 SQN which fly the B model. Indians themselves are not sure what to claim


They're clutching for straws. Deep down they're salty and burning with frustration to score one over so they resort to deceptive methods. It's pure frustration fed by hatred and jealousy.


----------



## Vortex

Arsalan 345 said:


> i agree with you.



And that does not mean an F16 was shot down.

Currently we have more to lose if we reveal with proof that we shot down an MKI because that could stop our JF17 program. Chineses engine for JF17 is not yet ready to go in mass production according what I understood from my readings on this forum.

Adding to that, if F16 was really shotdown then, what stopped indians to come again after what we did on the 27th ? After all a Supa Powa should not be scared from a 7 times smaller country, isn’t it ?

And most important point to notice is when you saw the face of the indians drag queens showing the piece of AIM120 as a proof that F16 was used so according to their logic an F16 was shotdown ...*cough* *cough*

So continue to believe what you want but *there is nothing actually which tend to confirm loss on our side.



Ps : minor correction of words etc.*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Avicenna

Vortex said:


> And that’s not mean an F16 was shot down.
> 
> Currently we have more to lose if we reveal with proof that we shot down an MKI because that could stop our JF17 program. Chineses engine for JF17 is not yet ready to go in mass production according what I understood from my readings on this forum.
> 
> Adding to that, if F16 was really shotdown then, what stopped indians to come again after what we did on the 27th ? After all a Supa Powa should not be scared from a 7 times smaller country, isn’t it ?
> 
> And mostly when you saw the face of the indians drag queens showing the piece of AIM120 as a proof that F16 was used so according to their logic an F16 was shotdown ...*cough* *cough*
> 
> So continue to believe what you want but *there is nothing actually which tend to confirm loss on our side.
> 
> *









This does not look like victory to me.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## M.AsfandYar

Avicenna said:


> View attachment 554549
> 
> 
> This does not look like victory to me.


Elaborate plz.


----------



## Avicenna

M.AsfandYar said:


> Elaborate plz.



They look shell shocked.

Their words can lie but their faces can't.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Keysersoze

M.AsfandYar said:


> Elaborate plz.


What elaboration is needed? You claim victory whilst whining about the other side allegedly using a type of plane.


----------



## Windjammer

Avicenna said:


> They look shell shocked.
> 
> Their words can lie but their faces can't.


What else would you expect as they can have only pulled out that piece from the wreckage of their prized bird.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## rockstarIN

Goku-kun said:


> does it matter?
> the fact is that it was shot down,the fact is that Abhi none done had the most expensive tea of his life, the fact is that the price of abhi's tea was a mig-21..
> what do you got?



It does matter for credibility. Pilots are living life for a real time action for the entire career and suddenly their kills are not appreciated to support lies, martyrdom is not acknowledged..


----------



## Goku-kun

rockstarIN said:


> It does matter for credibility. Pilots are living life for a real time action for the entire career and suddenly their kills are not appreciated to support lies, martyrdom is not acknowledged..


when their is no evidence of his kill then why are you being stubborn?
you got nothing to prove that he scored a kill while we have got everything to prove that iaf was embarrassed..
mig-21 can carry total 4 air to air missiles and all have been recovered if you saw our ISPR's tweet so if all are recovered then how did he shot down anything whether its f-16,jf-17 or f-22 lol..

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khanivore

Avicenna said:


> They look shell shocked.
> 
> Their words can lie but their faces can't.


Their faces, their body language was one of humiliation.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## araz

TANAHH said:


> India lost 3 and Pakistan none. Case closed.


Three if you exclude the helicopter four otherwise.
A


----------



## GumNaam

araz said:


> Three if you exclude the helicopter four otherwise.
> A


huh? wait no, what? four with the helicopter???
1. mig21 bis
2. su30 mki
3. mi17
4. wha...modi's ego???


----------



## araz

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Indeed!.........IF the Sukhoi MK-30 was shot down by a JF-17 then it means Pakistan has joined the ranks of a select few nations who can indigenously produce high tech advanced weapons systems, comparable to the best in the world. If it was shot down by an F-16 then it means the americans don't give a damn about the indians and their relationship with them.


Let us go by the Pak accounts and both the fighters with the kill were JFTs. The US would prefer it that way as they would not want to upset the dhotis at the moment.
A



GumNaam said:


> huh? wait no, what? four with the helicopter???
> 1. mig21 bis
> 2. su30 mki
> 3. mi17
> 4. wha...modi's ego???


There was another Mig 21 that went down in the area due to "technical fault" around the same time. Dhoris have an A hole so big due to the BVRs that it conveniently swallowed the third kill. Actually it tried to engulf the MKI kill. The M21 was open news item.
A

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GumNaam

araz said:


> Let us go by the Pak accounts and both the fighters with the kill were JFTs. The US would prefer it that way as they would not want to upset the dhotis at the moment.
> A
> 
> 
> There was another Mig 21 that went down in the area due to "technical fault" around the same time. Dhoris have an A hole so big due to the BVRs that it conveniently swallowed the third kill. Actually it tried to engulf the MKI kill. The M21 was open news item.
> A


really? conflicting stories out their that the 4th was a mirage2k but no confirmation so I never paid any attention to it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## araz

GumNaam said:


> really? conflicting stories out their that the 4th was a mirage2k but no confirmation so I never paid any attention to it.


I am only quoting Indian media bhai.
A

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## baqai

Khanivore said:


> Their faces, their body language was one of humiliation.



you really think they and their media know the meaning or evening have the meaning of the word "humiliation" in their dictionary? if there is i think it would be synonym for "baighairiti"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ziaulislam

Mace said:


> India bombs Balakot.
> Sushma in China announces immediate deescalation.
> ISPR announces because of bad weather none can visit the site on the day of bombing.
> ISPR arranges a tour after more than a month with cute little kids reading Quran.
> Only gullible people will believe nothing happened in Balakot.
> On this count IAF/GOI is also guilty of not sharing images.
> 
> On that day 2 parachutes went down from one aircraft. It has been discussed in this forum. I believe it is most likely a F16D. How many F16Ds PAF has? 8? Just line them up and that will shut up every one up including Indian def minister.
> 
> 
> 
> Even if we take your consensus word of one year ago, yes Pak is guilty of training jihadists. India has the right to retaliate.


Yes , ISPR also harry potter on side 

and thus conjured satellites to take fake photos..

it also conjured bbc hindi reporter out of thin air within couple of days ..who reported from the spot..

But indians spells are even better when they conjured their spell an f16 fell out of the sky and got destroyed ..(as mig21 had all if its missles intact)

but we have dumbledore he used a duplication spell thus USA count of f16 was normal ....

The above explanation is more resonable than yours explanation of f16 being lost depsite normal count and strikes happenings despite undeniable SAT images

This is the reporter harry potter conjured look at the date

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Taimoor Khan

SrNair said:


> Did I said anything about our strength in that reply ?
> I only said what a coincidence .
> Keeping Abhinadan for at least one week could have become a goldmine for PAF .
> A senior officer he is ,a Wing Commander , knows lot about our AF.And you also knows that very well.
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...istan-india-flight-disruption-intl/index.html
> Link.
> 
> Kulbhushan Yadav where does he come from?
> That guy was a business man for his own purpose .We have such crores of business men in world .
> If they are in trouble GoI will help them.
> We cant see any link here.
> 
> Now you are in desperation.
> Prime Minister didnt said anything .
> He took some decision and we saw that was effective




Your PM Bollywood fictional so called decisions mean Jackshite. 

You need to listen to your senior IAF official briefing in the aftermath of PAF 27th Feb surgical strikes on India , where he clearly mentioned that Pakistan committed an act of war by targeting Indian military installations. Now connect that with your FM revelation that IAF didn't target any Pakistani military or civilian infra. 

Remember what DG ISPR said. We will dominate the escalation ladder, and we have. In response to so called targeting of terrorist camp, Pakistan targeted Indian military installations (with apparently Bippin in dev HQ), shooting down two IAF jets as collateral damages. I consider IAF jets being shotdown as collateral because they were not part of the plan, the real deal was the 6 Indian military sites hit by Pakistani SOWs deep inside Indian controlled territory. 

The Indian reaction to 27th aftermath is nothing short of meek surrender. Neither Modi, and more importantly, Indian establishment got balls for further escalation.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## araz

The Eagle said:


> Wait a minute as . Undecided.
> 
> 
> Balakot was not hit but then again, 300+ were killed. Indian Media Mistake.
> BJP says no casualties were intended hence, no kill but delivered the message. Minister Mistake.
> IAF did not reach Balakot but SOW launched due to wind. Nature Mistake.
> Spice-2000 is an AI bomb, goes in without *crater damage *& eliminate targets. Alleged Camp Mistake.
> Spice 2000 is not a Bomb but a Kit. Professionals Mistake.
> Initial provided Balakot SAT images proven fake/stolen. Google Earth etc Mistake.
> Indian FM relies on SAT images on Social Media, proven wrong/old. Social Media Mistake.
> PAF retaliated at Six Points inside IoK. Israeli Defence Equipment Mistake.
> India doesn't have Rafale to counter PAF. France Mistake.
> MI-17V5 was hit by Israeli SAM.. Israeli Mistake.
> MI-17V5 pilot did not follow SOP claimed six lives. Pilot Mistake.
> Abhinandan did not follow SOP & disobeyed direct orders. Abhinandan Mistake.
> All Indian AWACs were in shift change/Turn around/Change over/Tarmac. AWACs mistake.
> No AWACs but images are available, proven to be doctored. Photo Shop Mistake.
> An AMRAAM Piece is found & not the F-16 wreckage/loss/even a single bolt. PAF Mistake.
> Int'l Observers confirms PAF F-16 fleet count/all accounted for. US, Pentagon, Source Mistake.
> Sweden provided SAAB AW&EC birds. Sweden Mistake.
> F-16 were used. US Mistake.
> SU MKI can dodge 6 AMRAAMs but did not take a single shot. Russian Mistake.
> SU-30 MKI crashed on the same time/day & claimed to be Tech Failure. Russian Mistake.
> Abhinandan did not fire single missile. PAF or Russia Mistake.
> Alan Warnes interviewed CAS, provided with Proof. Alan Warnes mistake.
> 
> See India has nothing to do with this all as it is always others mistake. And if Modi does it again, will be beaten Black & Blue again like this. The said "If" has nothing to do with the fact rather Modi's own game killing own Military for Election. IoK & youth rise is what Indian Army sowed for.


Great post! Now keep that glass of water away from @SrNair so he does not try to drown himself in it. The indians have been exposed so badly trying to lie about a fiasco they dont know what else to do. 
A

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## The Eagle

araz said:


> Great post! Now keep that glass of water away from @SrNair so he does not try to drown himself in it. The indians have been exposed so badly trying to lie about a fiasco they dont know what else to do.
> A



Sir, do you expect anything close to reality from Indian side? I am sure you don't like many of us. Had it been to reveal the real thing happened on that day; picture today would have been different to discuss. I have inked more of those twists in different threads as well and to be honest with, lost the count of Indian tales. I am sure & convinced that these stories will keep coming unless we are tired to debunk as after all, there is a limit to pay attention to the lies or call them on every time. Even international media is uninterested except for few quality shares. The above list contains what I remember and there is still need of more additions in coming days that we may read. Either we will bang our head with the wall or we wouldn't be paying more attention.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Vortex

What Indians are still in their “incredible Indian Air Fart” marketing ?

At this stage they need to be locked in hospitals

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Skywalker

I was watching cnn last night and came across with an ad, that cent percent fits with I dian narrative of shooting down an F16.

The ad was about an apple and they keep on calling it banana, while we can clearly sees it was an apple, but called it that a banana so many times that inspite of seeing the naked truth before your eyes you started calling it banana.

I hope our banana will satisfy these endiots ego.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## junaid786

Areesh said:


> More than SU30 kill I am still loving the fact that PAF *forced* IAF in shooting down its own MI17 and killing its own 6 personnel
> 
> [emoji38]


Did the Saab confused their Awacs ??? Abd they shotdown their own helicopter ?


----------



## Slides

junaid786 said:


> Did the Saab confused their Awacs ??? Abd they shotdown their own helicopter ?



No, they panicked after PAF dropped bombs right in the middle of their formation compounds and made their Su-30MKIs run away. We heard their ground troops crying on radio. IAF panicked and tried to shoot down anything they could.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Maarkhoor

junaid786 said:


> Did the Saab confused their Awacs ???


Blinders...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## PakSword

Slides said:


> No, they panicked after PAF dropped bombs right in the middle of their formation compounds and made their Su-30MKIs run away. We heard their ground troops crying on radio. IAF panicked and tried to shoot down anything they could.


You seem to have a lot of information.. tell us more..


----------



## Khanivore

Slides said:


> No, they panicked after PAF dropped bombs right in the middle of their formation compounds and made their Su-30MKIs run away. We heard their ground troops crying on radio. IAF panicked and tried to shoot down anything they could.


If you can, do tell us more.


----------



## Evora

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1121043967682981888Interesting facts by eye witness

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Tom_Cruise

^ That's old news. Just reiterating the '2 parachute' sightings.


----------



## Evora

He is confirming First jet when hit went to the other side of LOC towards north


----------



## PakEye

interesting he is saying that second pilot was arrested too...


----------



## war&peace

Slides said:


> No, they panicked after PAF dropped bombs right in the middle of their formation compounds and made their Su-30MKIs run away. We heard their ground troops crying on radio. IAF panicked and tried to shoot down anything they could.


Exactly, that is why our DGISPR told them a day before that we shall surprise you.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Dazzler

Maarkhoor said:


> Blinders...



Saab played its part too. It was a mix of multiple emitters.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Trango Towers

Maarkhoor said:


> Ki farq paynda eyy kinay kerda jahaz sutiya but more credible sources claimed that Siddiqui shoot down SU-30 from JF-17.
> 
> There is video where you can see Thunder chasing Su-30.
> 
> And perhaps it is not BVR kill but a sidewinder hunting.


Maybe even guns

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## graphican

Maarkhoor said:


> Blinders...



What is the make/origin of these jets?


----------



## untitled

graphican said:


> What is the make/origin of these jets?


Brought to you by the makers of the Mirage family of fighters


----------



## Maarkhoor

graphican said:


> What is the make/origin of these jets?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._24_Squadron_(Pakistan_Air_Force)

Falcon 20F Electronic Warfare Used for radar jamming, radar spoofing, communications jamming, airborne early warning and electronic reconnaissance.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## crankthatskunk

After this fiasco and seeing Indian's responses and changing of arguments like shifting sand. 
I have come to the conclusions, it doesn't take much for Modi to fool the Indians.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## mingle

graphican said:


> What is the make/origin of these jets?


French

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## war&peace

SrNair said:


> Actually US ,KSA ,UAE was working overtime to avoid the situation.
> Media person reported that a big screen was in that press conference room of Tri Service Chief press meet.
> But at 4 :45 Imran statement come .
> Then the nature of press meet change ,.
> Indian CBG was deployed in North Arabian Sea .After that Karachi went in to an undeclared emergency and entirr Pak airports closed for weeks.
> Means they didnt had to touch our pilot , their time was only for one day upto 5 pm.
> 
> Then our generous Pak PM arrived at 4:45pm.
> Seems even China was forced to stand down


Why couldn't you use the same technique for Kul Bashan Yadev for more two years we are holding him... why did you go begging to every country and then to ICJ... Why Pathetic low lives?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## airomerix

Dadizonline said:


> For folks wondering Su30 was shot down what evidence you have? Same like our F16 case in which we even displayed serial number and contract number of AMRAAM, radar signature and don't forget your history pals
> Before 2009 many nishan-e-haider never existed in Pakistan record you didn't even accepted there body for funeral we did that what your army told to there families? Official Pak army enlisted were Mujahideen ?
> Not to mention we had capabilities to engage much superior F104 Starfighter and F86 Sabre with British trainer GNAT and destroy it so our claims are more reliable.



We did not have evidence of Su 30 shoot down. You presented it yourself in Delhi. The same AMRAAM you're referring to. Are you all Indians so stupid? What does a missile wreckage tells you? It tells you that it went inside you. Idiots. 

The rest of your post is just crap to save face. Your so called Gnat's landed in Pakistan on the sight of F-104s. Learn history. Idiot.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Maarkhoor

Dadizonline said:


> And sorry for kulbhushan Yadav there is one book written by former ISI and RAW chief I advise all aspirants to read that "The Spy Chronicles: RAW, ISI and the Illusion of Peace" you'll know about kulbhushan case. And he was pilot there are geneva convention for people accused of espionage there is no convention to bring him/her home.
> 
> 
> Wow that means our 3/4 wreckage missiles discovered by ISPR (If not replica from ebay or from Chinese inventory) hit 3/4 targets and destroyed it? Btw it's crap if you don't wanna admit.


@waz @Areesh @The Eagle 

Rat is back with new abusive I.D. "DAD iz Online".....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## untitled

Dadizonline said:


> Wow that means our 3/4 wreckage missiles discovered by ISPR (If not replica from ebay or from Chinese inventory) hit 3/4 targets and destroyed it?


That 3/4 missile was recovered from a MiG21 wreck. What wreckage was the AMRAAM piece recovered from?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Smoke

Dadizonline said:


> And sorry for kulbhushan Yadav there is one book written by former ISI and RAW chief I advise all aspirants to read that "The Spy Chronicles: RAW, ISI and the Illusion of Peace" you'll know about kulbhushan case. And he was pilot there are geneva convention for people accused of espionage there is no convention to bring him/her home.
> 
> 
> Wow that means our 3/4 wreckage missiles discovered by ISPR (If not replica from ebay or from Chinese inventory) hit 3/4 targets and destroyed it? Btw it's crap if you don't wanna admit.



Not only missile wreckage, we have your wrecked plane too!

Do you have any part of the F-16? You tried posing off the engine cover of a Mig-21 as F-16 but your own Indian TV analyst corrected your media.


----------



## Windjammer

Dadizonline said:


> For folks wondering Su30 was shot down what evidence you have? Same like our F16 case in which we even displayed serial number and contract number of AMRAAM, radar signature and don't forget your history pals
> Before 2009 many nishan-e-haider never existed in Pakistan record you didn't even accepted there body for funeral we did that what your army told to there families? Official Pak army enlisted were Mujahideen ?
> Not to mention we had capabilities to engage much superior F104 Starfighter and F86 Sabre with British trainer GNAT and destroy it so our claims are more reliable.


A Gnat which surrendered to an F-104 in the PAF museum and your top line MiG-21 shot down by the humble F-t86.... as for AMRAAM, now go and ask your weekend warriors, where did they pull it out from.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Smoke

Dadizonline said:


> do you have wreckage of Su30? oh, I see that was the reason for so much buzz about the second pilot, isn't it? israeli pilot too



Media:
1. Pakistan has allowed, now twice, external journalists to come and decide the story for themselves in Azad Kashmir.
2. India has not and will not allow journalists, EU members in IOK, ever. 

27th Feb:
1. Pakistan has shown all claims with evidence, this shows the professionalism of our forces. They have omitted the SU-30 claim for whatever reasons
2. India has claimed almost everything with zero evidence, zero evidence for pulwama, zero evidence for pathankot, zero evidence elsewhere. Your own people suspect the current government of false flag operations.

Modi:
1. Claims clouds are radar proof
2. Claims 300 killed in Balakot
3. Claims Hanuman are real
4. Surgical strike 1.0 falsified
5. Claims F-16

Now tell me something, behind closed doors with Mr. Alan, Don't you think we would have shared something concrete with Mr. Alan for him to believe it and break the news?

With the amount of lies India has perpetuated for God knows, how many years. Your claims SHOULD be met with laughter. It is now surprising for us when your claims are actually true.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Windjammer

Dadizonline said:


> From that long war, you got one GNAT amazing to ask your grandfather (if he served during the war, who gained air superiority even having inferior planes?


Well seems your grand father certainly kept you in dark about this war but then again the IAF which thrives on fiction did finally after 50 years to be exact, admit to the thrashing at the hands of the PAF by disclosing that it lost 35 aircraft in first two days alone.....Gnat trophy was an added bonus.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Bratva

airomerix said:


> We did not have evidence of Su 30 shoot down. You presented it yourself in Delhi. The same AMRAAM you're referring to. Are you all Indians so stupid? What does a missile wreckage tells you? It tells you that it went inside you. Idiots.
> 
> The rest of your post is just crap to save face. Your so called Gnat's landed in Pakistan on the sight of F-104s. Learn history. Idiot.



Let me play the devil advocate here

1. That AMRAAM hit a chaff cloud

2. If PAF has the proof of SU-30 kill in form of radar data and SU-30 vanishing from radar. Then How PAF is sure it was not EW or ECM or SU-30 just made low level evasive maneuver to disappear from radar. 

PAF SU-30 claim is as dodgy as IAF claim of shooting down F-16. No Visual confirmation, Relying on the radar blips disappearing from radars. 

PAF or Asif Ghafoor is not proactively countering the Indian narrative with proofs. Hence Pakistani narrative of second kill will become a joke just like Indian narrative.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## CrazyZ

Dadizonline said:


> Pakistan allowed the journalist to visit the balalkot site right after 45> days I believe what they were doing for nearby 1 and half month? and why should we give Pakistan proof is jaish-e-mohhamad is established in Japan, Germany or Italy? they openly admitted they did that and for your so-called Mr. Alan he's in Pakistan now and probably getting paid for this fake stories


Wrong. Journalist were in Balakot within a day...Reuters, Al Jazeera, BBC. Official tour was later when conditions permitted.

It was Indian forces that prevented journalist in IOK to visit a crash site on the Loc. The Su 30 site most likely.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Windjammer

Dadizonline said:


> Simple question
> who gained air superiority? IAF or PAF? victory is not determined by casualties it is measured by gains.


You don't even need to dig into history books to find that out. 
In an air war, how do you gain superiority without decimating the opposition.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## CrazyZ

Dadizonline said:


> Find me a single article about that claim


Go check Al Jazeera site, I don't have time to spoon feed you. You wouldn't accept reality anyway. They interviewed the witness the next day. 

I've been tracking this incident like hawk since it happened. All evidence points to the second plane that was shot down as an Su 30.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Chanakyaa

CrazyZ said:


> Go check Al Jazeera site, I don't have time to spoon feed you. You wouldn't accept reality anyway. They interviewed the witness the next day.
> 
> I've been tracking this incident like hawk since it happened. All evidence points to the second plane that was shot down as an Su 30.



Actually, India never LIED about using an MKI. You did LIE about using an F16, later accepted it.
Thats Hints nicely over who is Hiding and what.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## untitled

Bratva said:


> Hence Pakistani narrative of second kill will become a joke just like Indian narrative.


I wouldn't go as far as that. Yes the PAF has not provided any conclusive proof of the second kill but we have journalists like Alan Warned publicly taking a stand for PAF. In addition on 27th many newspapers around the world posted headlines claiming PAF shot down 2 Indian jets. Even now if you search "Pakistan shoots down 2 Indian" the resulting searches will provide you articles with similar headlines. You will hardly find any major neutral media group supporting India's version of events on 27th.

Now allow me to speculate here. Indians know that for some reason Pakistan for the time being can not publicly give conclusive proof for the second kill. Till that time they have launched a full propaganda campaign which they are supporting by all sorts of theories regarding the second aircraft.


----------



## Arsalan 345

There was second jet and everyone saw it going down.paf shared no radar data.iaf shared radar data with still pictures.it could be anything but I am not sure about su-30. We have weak narrative and we shared no proof.i Don't trust patches.they are for domestic audience.i am telling this to all members from day one that the other plane was also shot down in our territory but they don't believe.


----------



## untitled

Arsalan 345 said:


> .i am telling this to all members from day one that the other plane was also shot down in our territory but they don't believe.


So Alan Warnes is lying when he said he has seen proof?


----------



## Arsalan 345

member.exe said:


> So Alan Warnes is lying when he said he has seen proof?



I am talking about our side.i don't know what happened on their side.you need credible evidence to counter indian narrative.su-30 is a very big fighter plane and hiding it from public is not possible.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## untitled

XiNiX said:


> Actually, India never LIED.


1)They lied when they showed a piece of AMRAAM as proof of a F16 downing
2) They lied when they said that the Mi17 went down because of a technical fault
3) They lied when they accused villagers of stealing the Mi17s blackbox 
4) They were accused of lying by Ajay Shukla when he stated that the IAF is using delaying tactics for the inquiry of the Mi17 for Modi's re-election



Arsalan 345 said:


> su-30 is a very big fighter plane and hiding it from public is not possible.


India has successfully hid a lot of things regarding the events of 27th that are much bigger than a Su30.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Tejas Spokesman

member.exe said:


> So Alan Warnes is lying when he said he has seen proof?


Actually Alan Warnes has liked a tweet (thus endorsing it) which mentions that he was only quoting CAS on Su-30 kill claim and Was Not Verifying:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CrazyZ

Arsalan 345 said:


> I am talking about our side.i don't know what happened on their side.you need credible evidence to counter indian narrative.su-30 is a very big fighter plane and hiding it from public is not possible.


There have been a number of Su 30 crashes in India. For some it took weeks to find the wreckage. If it crashed close to the LOC or in a lightly populated area...then it could be hidden in my assessment.



Arsalan 345 said:


> There was second jet and everyone saw it going down.paf shared no radar data.iaf shared radar data with still pictures.it could be anything but I am not sure about su-30. We have weak narrative and we shared no proof.i Don't trust patches.they are for domestic audience.i am telling this to all members from day one that the other plane was also shot down in our territory but they don't believe.


According to Air Marshal Modi, clouds can hide you fron radar....that could explain why the F16 disappeared on the radar screen. Cloud was in way.


----------



## Bratva

XiNiX said:


> Actually, India never LIED about using an MKI. You did LIE about using an F16, later accepted it.
> Thats Hints nicely over who is Hiding and what.



Why are you hiding Mi-17 crash reasons and the places where PAF dropped bombs ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## untitled

Tejas Spokseman said:


> Actually Alan Warnes has liked a tweet (thus endorsing it) which mentions that he was only quoting CAS on Su-30 kill claim and Was Not Verifying:


He actually was confident enough to stand by his tweet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118428758308990976

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bratva

member.exe said:


> I wouldn't go as far as that. Yes the PAF has not provided any conclusive proof of the second kill but we have journalists like Alan Warned publicly taking a stand for PAF. In addition on 27th many newspapers around the world posted headlines claiming PAF shot down 2 Indian jets. Even now if you search "Pakistan shoots down 2 Indian" the resulting searches will provide you articles with similar headlines. You will hardly find any major neutral media group supporting India's version of events on 27th.
> 
> Now allow me to speculate here. Indians know that for some reason Pakistan for the time being can not publicly give conclusive proof for the second kill. Till that time they have launched a full propaganda campaign which they are supporting by all sorts of Indian theories regarding the second aircraft.



I suppose who supports which narrative isn't a question here. The narrative isn't the problem. The verification of the narrative is the actual problem. World Media conclusively debunked Indian Balakot strike claims with proper satellite pictures of next day or of 1st March. Nobody debunking that. 

But we don't have the same factual thing for SU-30 Claim. PM Imrank Khan said we shot down two MIG, PAF is claiming they shot down SU-30. We are not even on 1 page about what we shot down And this is what infuriates me. Pakistani Armed forces always acts like its hands are tied somehow which is what preventing them from disclosing something. That Babajee mentality has ingrained in our Military planners very strongly

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## untitled

Bratva said:


> PM Imrank Khan said we shot down two MIG, PAF is claiming they shot down SU-30. We are not even on 1 page about what we shot down And this is what infuriates me.


You can forgive Imran Khan and his speech writers for this. I am pretty sure he can't tell a MiG17 from a Mi17


Bratva said:


> Pakistani Armed forces always acts like its hands are tied somehow which is what preventing them from disclosing something


True. We are diplomatically weak. We can't even properly own our victories on the battlefield lest we offend someone


----------



## Maarkhoor

Bratva said:


> PM Imrank Khan said we shot down two MIG, PAF is claiming they shot down SU-30.


Bro P.M Khan even jingled up geography of Japan and France hence may have very basic knowledge of jet and their names...Indian media themselves claim that we have shot down mig 21 and Su-30 but latter their retracted their statements....even if Abinondon was not caught down and landed in IOK they never accept loss of any jet...They lied in mistake since they thought they have shoot down F-16 but later found that in fact they have shoot down their own rescue helicopter but since they believe jhoot itna bolo k sach ban jaye so they keep on saying that....You know they produces F-16 slayer and Ammram dodger patches....IAF refuse to put on them....they still have little shame....We have shoot down SU-30 and because of some lowering down temperature measures we handed over slain pilots body through red cross.....and wait for next escalation ....they will release the details.. Like G Suit, Picture of the body, helmet, pistol etc etc....don't worry...you will see all these things in near future.


----------



## TheTallGuy

member.exe said:


> You can forgive Imran Khan and his speech writers for this. I am pretty sure he can't tell a MiG17 from a Mi17
> 
> True. We are diplomatically weak. We can't even properly own our victories on the battlefield lest we offend someone



You hit the nail! as per my educated guess "decimation of IAF" is the right sense of words. just because of 2 pilots in custody...we are unable to claim actual number of kills..

we dont know what will be the Indian response..as per history in kargill they lost 2 x aircraft and 1 x helicopter - here 20 years on on 27th Feb 19 Pakistan armed forces claiming 2 x aircraft shot down and 1 x helicopter lost due to fratricide. coincidence i believe not - its an attempt to keep knowns from unknowns...

Pakistan Armed Forces playing very safe - but in short term they are loosing the narrative as time passes on...



Maarkhoor said:


> We have shoot down SU-30 and because of some lowering down temperature measures we handed over slain pilots body through red cross.....and wait for next escalation ....they will release the details.. Like G Suit, Picture of the body, helmet, pistol etc etc....don't worry...you will see all these things in near future.



time for escalation is gone...IAF is not coming back till 3 years at-least till rafales become operational...


----------



## Tipu7

member.exe said:


> He actually was confident enough to stand by his tweet
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1118428758308990976


Stand by the tweet! Its not a tweet but a representation of claims by PAF which are yet to become official.
Its very well known within PAF circles from Day One that a Su30MKI was also shot down by PAF (forget Mig21 for a while). Initially (for few hours) there was confusion either it was M2K or MKI, but later on it was rectified. The serials of air crafts which scored the kills and names of pilots who achieved these kills are all known but definitely not meant for open sources yet.
PAF will reveal details on 7th September (Air Force Day) and all three pilots will receive gallantry rewards.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## notorious_eagle

XiNiX said:


> Actually, India never LIED about using an MKI. You did LIE about using an F16, later accepted it.
> Thats Hints nicely over who is Hiding and what.



Technically No, PAF did not lie. 

PAF stated that F16's were not involved in the strike package that was sent over to India. All the evidence points towards the JF17's and Mirage V's comprising of the offensive strike package. The F16's were used in defensive posture and were used within Pakistan's territory to engage chasing IAF fighter's. 

But what happened to the large number of terrorists that were killed in the Balakot strike? Also, wasn't IAF using clouds to spoof the PAF radars and hide their aircrafts between the clouds. Now that's some next level physics.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Tipu7

Bratva said:


> g for SU-30 Claim. PM Imrank Khan said we shot down two MIG, PAF is claiming they shot down SU-30. We are not even on 1 page about what we shot down And this is what infuriates me.


I remember arguing with you on topic of "two pilots vs one pilot" where I presented my thoughts about the confusion related to "missing 2nd pilot in hospital". You denied that abruptly and asked for waiting for official stance. ISPR later on backed my theory and this is what actually happened on ground during those fateful events.
Same is happening now, only difference is that just like an immature claim of denying F16 involvement, story of "two Migs downing" instead of "two IAF fighters downing" was crafted by some genius in Military high ups and was given to PM IK which he stated during the public speech.

There is no "us ne ye kaha mgr us ne ye kaha, par woh to ese keh rha tha or ye ab yon keh rha he" stuff involved in Mig21 & Su30 downing.


----------



## Arsalan 345

Tipu7 said:


> Stand by the tweet! Its not a tweet but a representation of claims by PAF which are yet to become official.
> Its very well known within PAF circles from Day One that a Su30MKI was also shot down by PAF (forget Mig21 for a while). Initially (for few hours) there was confusion either it was M2K or MKI, but later on it was rectified. The serials of air crafts which scored the kills and names of pilots who achieved these kills are all known but definitely not meant for open sources yet.
> PAF will reveal details on 7th September (Air Force Day) and all three pilots will receive gallantry rewards.



i think if alan warnes saw the proof,it means confirm kill of su-30.may be the jet that fall down on our side was su-30 but i don't understand why we are not making details public.may be iaf demanded paf not to make things public.anyway this is getting more complicated day by day.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## messiach

''Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF' - IFF is not manually operated, PAROL operates auto, under imitation protection & general identification mode 11-1V. 


Tejas Spokesman said:


> So?
> Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Bratva said:


> I suppose who supports which narrative isn't a question here. The narrative isn't the problem. The verification of the narrative is the actual problem. World Media conclusively debunked Indian Balakot strike claims with proper satellite pictures of next day or of 1st March. Nobody debunking that.
> 
> But we don't have the same factual thing for SU-30 Claim. PM Imrank Khan said we shot down two MIG, PAF is claiming they shot down SU-30. We are not even on 1 page about what we shot down And this is what infuriates me. Pakistani Armed forces always acts like its hands are tied somehow which is what preventing them from disclosing something. That Babajee mentality has ingrained in our Military planners very strongly



PM prob does not have technical knowledge about fighter jets like we do on forums. Even my dad refers to Indian planes as "MIGS" even though IAF operates more different types of Planes then most of AF in the world. 

The fact that their are two parachute videos out their and PAF kill patches is more then enough evidence to believe in SU-30 kill


----------



## Salza

Fact is, India even didn't dared to response Pakistan after Feb 27, is enough proof of PAF superiority that day. PAF bombed on 6 different locations. Indians fighter jets and helicopter were going down here and there. Their radar avionics were jammed in most of the locations clearly indicating IAF was in deep shit trouble that day. This is only possible when you are losing/locked top tier jets i.e. Su 30s

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SIPRA

Tipu7 said:


> PAF will reveal details on 7th September (Air Force Day) and all three pilots will receive gallantry rewards.



Three or two pilots?



notorious_eagle said:


> Also, wasn't IAF using clouds to spoof the PAF radars and hide their aircrafts between the clouds. Now that's some next level physics.



Not only physics, but chemistry also, because clouds are involved.


----------



## Globalwarrior

Tejas Spokesman said:


> So?
> Our IAF chief also reiterated the F-16 kill yesterday.
> All these reiterations from both sides have Zero value unless a neutral source supports their claims or their is evidence of a wreckage.
> 
> Also MI-17 was shot down by a SAM unit (and not Mig 21) because Mi-17 pilot forgot to switch on IFF system, so he is wrong on that count too.



Perhaps make such statements after you find the back box in your territory

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Globalwarrior

Globalwarrior said:


> Perhaps make such statements after you find the back box in your territory



Black box ...


----------



## war&peace

My question to all Gangadeshis is, why don't you ask your Abhi None Done... Why does he not issue a statement that happened to him or what he did before getting hit? Or his answer to you guys is I'm not supposed to tell you this?


----------



## NA71

TheTallGuy said:


> You hit the nail! as per my educated guess "decimation of IAF" is the right sense of words. just because of 2 pilots in custody...we are unable to claim actual number of kills..
> 
> we dont know what will be the Indian response..as per history in kargill they lost 2 x aircraft and 1 x helicopter - here 20 years on on 27th Feb 19 Pakistan armed forces claiming 2 x aircraft shot down and 1 x helicopter lost due to fratricide. coincidence i believe not - its an attempt to keep knowns from unknowns...
> 
> Pakistan Armed Forces playing very safe - but in short term they are loosing the narrative as time passes on...
> 
> 
> 
> time for escalation is gone...IAF is not coming back till 3 years at-least till rafales become operational...


Yes, the day IAF gets Rafales, they will start doing provocation ....and will take it to the point for another air battle ...


----------



## TheTallGuy

NA71 said:


> Yes, the day IAF gets Rafales, they will start doing provocation ....and will take it to the point for another air battle ...



This where the problem lies...Pakistan Narrative of hiding the IAF bashing/Thrashing/decimation going to instigate further escalation...who is the hostage of time? who is waiting? its us! not them there narrative is built upon all is well! this will keep on going in circles...we should have opened up clearly without fear! without the fear of unknown!

are we able to face this Hoo Haa every 2 years..just think! who is under obligation... waiting it has made us into a side worried about the bully after beating a bully!

Sometime truth in open crushes moral and will to fight! The reality is "PAF is finding herself in position of states deterrent" Nuclear Weapons are obsolete as deterrence in our part of the world! 

@MastanKhan @Mangus Ortus Novem @The Eagle @Tps43 @Hakikat ve Hikmet @The Deterrent @airomerix

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Smoke

TheTallGuy said:


> This where the problem lies...Pakistan Narrative of hiding the IAF bashing/Thrashing/decimation going to instigate further escalation...who is the hostage of time? who is waiting? its us! not them there narrative is built upon all is well! this will keep on going in circles...we should have opened up clearly without fear! without the fear of unknown!
> 
> are we able to face this Hoo Haa every 2 years..just think! who is under obligation... waiting it has made us into a side worried about the bully after beating a bully!
> 
> Sometime truth in open crushes moral and will to fight! The reality is "PAF is finding herself in position of states deterrent" Nuclear Weapons are obsolete as deterrence in our part of the world!
> 
> @MastanKhan @Mangus Ortus Novem @The Eagle @Tps43 @Hakikat ve Hikmet @The Deterrent @airomerix



Don't worry, one tactical nuke will be enough for the entire Indian army to leave kashmir.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Irfan Baloch

war&peace said:


> My question to all Gangadeshis is, why don't you ask your Abhi None Done... Why does he not issue a statement that happened to him or what he did before getting hit? Or his answer to you guys is I'm not supposed to tell you this?


he will follow the instructions of his leadership to say what will be dictated to him

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TheTallGuy

Smoke said:


> Don't worry, one tactical nuke will be enough for the entire Indian army to leave kashmir.



Dude! are you serious! Tactical or strategic nuclear weapons are forbidden fruit...we or them will never use it...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## masterchief_mirza

Smoke said:


> Don't worry, one tactical nuke will be enough for the entire Indian army to leave kashmir.


The nature of war has changed. Surgical strikes and countering surgical strikes is ALL that matters now between two states like India and Pakistan where the difference in capabilities is not actually that dramatic. This isn't USA vs Iraq. Nuclear deterrent or threat of tactical nukes is meaningless and ineffective against an enemy that seeks to carry out surgical strikes at will. Pak will never respond to surgical strikes with nukes. The reality is we need to counter their air force, navy and missile threat by conventional means...and do it quick. This is the new arms race and many posters here are correct in saying that it is a hybrid arms race....the media and diplomatic arm of this battle is of massive massive importance.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Smoke

TheTallGuy said:


> Dude! are you serious! Tactical or strategic nuclear weapons are forbidden fruit...we or them will never use it...



I think you can get away with a tactical nuke.


----------



## war&peace

Irfan Baloch said:


> he will follow the instructions of his leadership to say what will be dictated to him


The question is why did it not happen yet? It has been more than two months.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Smoke

TheTallGuy said:


> Dude! are you serious! Tactical or strategic nuclear weapons are forbidden fruit...we or them will never use it...



They don't even have tactical nukes.


----------



## Keysersoze

masterchief_mirza said:


> The nature of war has changed. Surgical strikes and countering surgical strikes is ALL that matters now between two states like India and Pakistan where the difference in capabilities is not actually that dramatic. This isn't USA vs Iraq. Nuclear deterrent or threat of tactical nukes is meaningless and ineffective against an enemy that seeks to carry out surgical strikes at will. Pak will never respond to surgical strikes with nukes. The reality is we need to counter their air force, navy and missile threat by conventional means...and do it quick. This is the new arms race and many posters here are correct in saying that it is a hybrid arms race....the media and diplomatic arm of this battle is of massive massive importance.


Surgical strike is just a word used in the west like collateral damage and so on. It was created to prevent blowback from civilian casualties. In the India/Pak paradigm it is a term used to claim blows when none have occurred. i.e. "Why did your air strike not cause any damage yet you claim 300 enemy dead?" the answer would be "We performed a "surgical strike" which on two occasions no one has found any proof of even with satellite imaging."

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## masterchief_mirza

Keysersoze said:


> Surgical strike is just a word used in the west like collateral damage and so on. It was created to prevent blowback from civilian casualties. In the India/Pak paradigm it is a term used to claim blows when none have occurred. i.e. "Why did your air strike not cause any damage yet you claim 300 enemy dead?" the answer would be "We performed a "surgical strike" which on two occasions no one has found any proof of even with satellite imaging."


True. It is completely the case that these so called surgical strikes may or may not actually hit anything. However any incursion by India, even if they hit thin air, MUST be responded to...and moreover, we must be able to confirm that we responded and dealt with them via the media and via diplomatic channels otherwise the counteraction is useless. This is as much a war of perception as a war of damage infliction. media generated opinion can now ruin careers, bankrupt powerful organisations, malign governments, create cassus belli for occupation and physical war. Why should anyone delude themselves that media trickery cannot turn a battlefield defeat into some form of Strategic victory? India can actually fake a victory here...and believe me, they are really trying to.... and the outcome of their fake victory will have real effect on Pak in terms of economy, internal security/stability and global geopolitics if our hybrid war planners are not careful. Their hybrid war tacticians have already applied diplomatic pressure on us. We can down 2 planes or 22 planes....if they find a way to destroy our true narrative with bs propaganda, how can we claim to have a final victory?? I am tending to agree with the posters who say we need to release evidence now to counter their bs. Having said All that, it would strike a devastating blow to india if dgispr actually comes out with some irrefutable evidence to support his narrative after DELIBERATE stalling to permit India to release bs after bs lie. This long wait for evidence could yet turn out to be a masterstroke.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## NA71

masterchief_mirza said:


> True. It is completely the case that these so called surgical strikes may or may not actually hit anything. However any incursion by India, even if they hit thin air, MUST be responded to...and moreover, we must be able to confirm that we responded and dealt with them via the media and via diplomatic channels otherwise the counteraction is useless. This is as much a war of perception as a war of damage infliction. media generated opinion can now ruin careers, bankrupt powerful organisations, malign governments, create cassus belli for occupation and physical war. Why should anyone delude themselves that media trickery cannot turn a battlefield defeat into some form of Strategic victory? India can actually fake a victory here...and believe me, they are really trying to.... and the outcome of their fake victory will have real effect on Pak in terms of economy, internal security/stability and global geopolitics if our hybrid war planners are not careful. Their hybrid war tacticians have already applied diplomatic pressure on us. We can down 2 planes or 22 planes....if they find a way to destroy our true narrative with bs propaganda, how can we claim to have a final victory?? I am tending to agree with the posters who say we need to release evidence now to counter their bs. Having said All that, it would strike a devastating blow to india if dgispr actually comes out with some irrefutable evidence to support his narrative after DELIBERATE stalling to permit India to release bs after bs lie. This long wait for evidence could yet turn out to be a masterstroke.



Fantastic reply. Hiding the truth has fewer benefits ... the objective of strategic peace has not been achieved. Indians have relaunched the sleeping cells in Balochistan and FATA. The release of actual information, say, after a year will mean nothing. Even if we decide today to release it...we have been late. For example, we took foreigners to Balakot site after 47 days...and it could not bring international attention as expected and mostly Indian Narrative is dominant.

Simple words, we fought the hybrid Info war very well initially but later...Indians repeated fake stories and claims have diluted our efforts.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Chanakyaa

Salza said:


> Fact is, *India even didn't dared to response Pakistan after Feb 27, is enough proof of PAF superiority that day.* PAF bombed on 6 different locations. Indians fighter jets and helicopter were going down here and there. Their radar avionics were jammed in most of the locations clearly indicating IAF was in deep shit trouble that day. This is only possible when you are losing/locked top tier jets i.e. Su 30s



I accept it. Infact, Indians are Cowards and they can/will never ever think of facing pakistan.
Its my humble request, that you Please tell the same to some of your country men who think the recent Terror Attacks were planned by India/RAW.



masterchief_mirza said:


> True. It is completely the case that these so called surgical strikes may or may not actually hit anything. However any incursion by India, even if they hit thin air, MUST be responded to...and moreover, we must be able to confirm that we responded and dealt with them via the media and via diplomatic channels otherwise the counteraction is useless. This is as much a war of perception as a war of damage infliction. media generated opinion can now ruin careers, bankrupt powerful organisations, malign governments, create cassus belli for occupation and physical war. Why should anyone delude themselves that media trickery cannot turn a battlefield defeat into some form of Strategic victory? India can actually fake a victory here...and believe me, they are really trying to.... and the outcome of their fake victory will have real effect on Pak in terms of economy, internal security/stability and global geopolitics if our hybrid war planners are not careful. Their hybrid war tacticians have already applied diplomatic pressure on us. We can down 2 planes or 22 planes....if they find a way to destroy our true narrative with bs propaganda, how can we claim to have a final victory?? I am tending to agree with the posters who say we need to release evidence now to counter their bs. Having said All that, it would strike a devastating blow to india if dgispr actually comes out with some irrefutable evidence to support his narrative after DELIBERATE stalling to permit India to release bs after bs lie. This long wait for evidence could yet turn out to be a masterstroke.



You will agree that Feb 26 events made one drastic change : India will Strike INSIDE pakistan, If there is an Attack like Pulwama. Before you plan a terror Attack in India, consult your Airforce.... or the result will be exactly the SAME... may be worse as the recent incidents inside pakistan suggest.

Now IMF owns Pakistan... what better can we ask for ?

India, Hit and PAF remained sleeping on 26th.
When they dared Attack on 27, our Pilot inside a Mig 21 was brave enough to respond... something PAF couldnt do on 27.

Then, Lies and Lies.... First they say.. 3 Pilots.. even Your PM.. then Say.. Sorry.. we made a mistake.. we have just one... wow.

Then They say.. No F16 invloved ( On Camera ) .. then after a few days... revert again and day... sorry... we did use F16....



war&peace said:


> My question to all Gangadeshis is, why don't you ask your Abhi None Done... Why does he not issue a statement that happened to him or what he did before getting hit? Or his answer to you guys is I'm not supposed to tell you this?



That will be a Lie.. No ? after all He too is an India .. and Indian always Lie... So whats your point ?



Keysersoze said:


> Surgical strike is just a word used in the west like collateral damage and so on. It was created to prevent blowback from civilian casualties. In the India/Pak paradigm it is a term used to claim blows when none have occurred. i.e. "Why did your air strike not cause any damage yet you claim 300 enemy dead?" the answer would be "We performed a "surgical strike" which on two occasions no one has found any proof of even with satellite imaging."



Its more than that.
Its a Massive Change of Strategy.

Consider this : At the Peak of Kargil, Indian Jets were Simply NOT ALLOWED to cross LOC. Thanx to Pulwama... we now know That defensive posture is gone. Any terror attack means, Hits INSIDE Pakistan.



Smoke said:


> They don't even have tactical nukes.



yes, Suicide belts are not our way.



Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> Young Pak,
> 
> 
> #MarasiEnemy will keep doing its chest thumping... we must remain alert and ready... exercising studied disdain...
> 
> The reality is that there is No Regional Hegemon anymore.
> 
> Before 27th Feb there was a paper tiger... now there is a naked _billi_.
> 
> This is nothing to dance about... this brings situation to a dangerous level.
> 
> The best policy is to remain quietly confident and keep to sound-bites level.
> 
> Pak has chosen Peacea as Strategic Option... so all our energies should remain geared towards Peace.
> 
> However, we must remain heartless next time if indians go beyond sound-bites.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mangus



Yes, I fully agree.
Please tell to you fellow country men that "Paper Tigers" and "Billis" cant attack in Baluchistan. A Coward nation like India...cant plan and execute attack after attack ! ... like Pakistan could do in Kashmir.


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

lol anyone remembers the fake chatter I.A used to fool their high command to get them medals when to action ever took place up north? this was a few years back I believe.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Chanakyaa

notorious_eagle said:


> Technically No, PAF did not lie.
> 
> PAF stated that F16's were not involved in the strike package that was sent over to India. All the evidence points towards the JF17's and Mirage V's comprising of the offensive strike package. The F16's were used in defensive posture and were used within Pakistan's territory to engage chasing IAF fighter's.
> 
> But what happened to the large number of terrorists that were killed in the Balakot strike? Also, wasn't IAF using clouds to spoof the PAF radars and hide their aircrafts between the clouds. Now that's some next level physics.



Well, The Terrorists Killed were miraculously gone.. Just like the Pak Army soldiers who did Attack kargil but later were given the status of "nver took part" .. lol

Well, Let me show you whats Next Level of "Serious" Physics by your TOP Nuclear Scientist...yes He Infact Built your Nukes !

Dr. Khan :

“I have investigated the matter, and *there is no fraud involved*,” he told Hamid Mir, a popular television journalist, during a recent broadcast that sealed Mr. Ahmad’s celebrity.

He is Talking about This :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agha_Waqar's_water-fuelled_car

Full News : https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/world/asia/boast-of-water-run-car-thrills-pakistan.html


----------



## SMC

XiNiX said:


> Well, The Terrorists Killed were miraculously gone.. Just like the Pak Army soldiers who did Attack kargil but later were given the status of "nver took part" .. lol


 why do you keep embarrassing yourself? There are satellite images showing no damage to the compound. Literally no one outside your country believes you.


> Well, Let me show you whats Next Level of "Serious" Physics by your TOP Nuclear Scientist...yes He Infact Built your Nukes !
> 
> Dr. Khan :
> 
> “I have investigated the matter, and *there is no fraud involved*,” he told Hamid Mir, a popular television journalist, during a recent broadcast that sealed Mr. Ahmad’s celebrity.
> 
> He is Talking about This :
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agha_Waqar's_water-fuelled_car
> 
> Full News : https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/world/asia/boast-of-water-run-car-thrills-pakistan.html


And this is somehow supposed to prove that the airstrikes were real? You are quoting NYTimes, who thinks your strike was a sham.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chanakyaa

SMC said:


> why do you keep embarrassing yourself? There are satellite images showing no damage to the compound. Literally no one outside your country believes you.



I cant help you, if you think I believe it.



SMC said:


> And this is somehow supposed to prove that the airstrikes were real? You are quoting NYTimes, who thinks your strike was a sham.



Comprehension Issues ?
I was talking about Physics, Dr Khan and Water car Engineer.


----------



## SMC

XiNiX said:


> I cant help you, if you think I believe it.



So you don't think airstrikes were real?


> Comprehension Issues ?
> I was talking about Physics, Dr Khan and Water car Engineer.


Yes, I was asking you if that meant airstrikes were real. Or if there were any links.


----------



## Falcon26

XiNiX said:


> Well, The Terrorists Killed were miraculously gone.. Just like the Pak Army soldiers who did Attack kargil but later were given the status of "nver took part" .. lol
> 
> Well, Let me show you whats Next Level of "Serious" Physics by your TOP Nuclear Scientist...yes He Infact Built your Nukes !
> 
> Dr. Khan :
> 
> “I have investigated the matter, and *there is no fraud involved*,” he told Hamid Mir, a popular television journalist, during a recent broadcast that sealed Mr. Ahmad’s celebrity.
> 
> He is Talking about This :
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agha_Waqar's_water-fuelled_car
> 
> Full News : https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/world/asia/boast-of-water-run-car-thrills-pakistan.html



Since we are quoting the New York Times

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Myth_buster_1

XiNiX said:


> Well, The Terrorists Killed were miraculously gone.. Just like the Pak Army soldiers who did Attack kargil but later were given the status of "nver took part" .. lol
> 
> Well, Let me show you whats Next Level of "Serious" Physics by your TOP Nuclear Scientist...yes He Infact Built your Nukes !
> 
> Dr. Khan :
> 
> “I have investigated the matter, and *there is no fraud involved*,” he told Hamid Mir, a popular television journalist, during a recent broadcast that sealed Mr. Ahmad’s celebrity.
> 
> He is Talking about This :
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agha_Waqar's_water-fuelled_car
> 
> Full News : https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/world/asia/boast-of-water-run-car-thrills-pakistan.html



why is this lose chowkidar BJPig trolling this thread?

2 R-77 recovered from abhi's wreckage
1 R-73 with tail section attached to pylon recovered
1 R-73 with serial number can be plugged in IAF 2ss and it will come up in their inventory

so abhi did not even fire a single missile and these low iq chowkidars still dreaming about shooting F-16.

The two parachute video belongs to Su-30 pilot and the poor Mi-17 which took off to rescue the pilots was shot down by IAI spider SAM.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## SQ8

Hilarious that Indian members are bringing in all sorts of disconnected, tangential or baseless stories in an attempt to convince people who truly do not give two paisas about their side of the story. 

Every day the Indian narrative mutates, every day we dont give cow dung about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## umair86

There is a twist to this whole story Abhinandan is a SU-30 pilot not MiG-21 and things are very different than It is stated officially time will clear up things that how SU-30 was shoot down and how MiG-21 was shoot down.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## war&peace

XiNiX said:


> That will be a Lie.. No ? after all He too is an India .. and Indian always Lie... So whats your point ?


Still he would more credible than rest of Indians and the low-lives are speaking all types of lies so why not use the guy who was the part of the action? Strange he did not open his mouth for more than two months after getting released by Pakistan.


----------



## notorious_eagle

XiNiX said:


> Well, The Terrorists Killed were miraculously gone.. Just like the Pak Army soldiers who did Attack kargil but later were given the status of "nver took part" .. lol



Well based on the satellite images reviewed by Reuters, there were no terrorists or buildings targeted. IAF struck an open ground, and created a crater. This is not Pak Army saying, its the independent observers going through satellite images.

As far as your reference to Kargil is concerned, that's simply an ad hominem attack. Stick to Feb 27, and stop trolling.



XiNiX said:


> Well, Let me show you whats Next Level of "Serious" Physics by your TOP Nuclear Scientist...yes He Infact Built your Nukes !
> 
> Dr. Khan :
> 
> “I have investigated the matter, and *there is no fraud involved*,” he told Hamid Mir, a popular television journalist, during a recent broadcast that sealed Mr. Ahmad’s celebrity.
> 
> He is Talking about This :
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agha_Waqar's_water-fuelled_car
> 
> Full News : https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/world/asia/boast-of-water-run-car-thrills-pakistan.html



Well he was wrong, there i say it and admit it. But its laughable how you're trying to defend Modi Ji for his faux pas about the clouds and hiding the aircrafts behind the clouds.

Once again, an ad hominem attack because you got exposed once again. Feel free to launch more of those, and troll throughout the thread lol.



Oscar said:


> Hilarious that Indian members are bringing in all sorts of disconnected, tangential or baseless stories in an attempt to convince people who truly do not give two paisas about their side of the story.
> 
> Every day the Indian narrative mutates, every day we dont give cow dung about it.



EXACTLYYYYYY

Look above. I am talking about Modi Ji's faux pax in regards to hiding behind the clouds to spoof the radars, and our friends trolls by bringing in AQ Khan. Like WTFFFFF, this is beyond pathetic. 

But i don't blame my Indian friends. They were told for almost 2 decades that India will dominate any escalation against Pakistan, just like Israel dominates any escalation with Palestine. But its a rude reality for them that despite spending billions of dollars, India lacks the muscle to dominate localized escalation.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Chanakyaa

notorious_eagle said:


> Well based on the satellite images reviewed by Reuters, there were no terrorists or buildings targeted. IAF struck an open ground, and created a crater. This is not Pak Army saying, its the independent observers going through satellite images.
> 
> As far as your reference to Kargil is concerned, that's simply an ad hominem attack. Stick to Feb 27, and stop trolling.
> 
> 
> 
> Well he was wrong, there i say it and admit it. But its laughable how you're trying to defend Modi Ji for his faux pas about the clouds and hiding the aircrafts behind the clouds.
> 
> Once again, an ad hominem attack because you got exposed once again. Feel free to launch more of those, and troll throughout the thread lol.
> 
> 
> 
> EXACTLYYYYYY
> 
> Look above. I am talking about Modi Ji's faux pax in regards to hiding behind the clouds to spoof the radars, and our friends trolls by bringing in AQ Khan. Like WTFFFFF, this is beyond pathetic.
> 
> But i don't blame my Indian friends. They were told for almost 2 decades that India will dominate any escalation against Pakistan, just like Israel dominates any escalation with Palestine. But its a rude reality for them that despite spending billions of dollars, India lacks the muscle to dominate localized escalation.



Im not really a fan of Modi. Period.



war&peace said:


> Still he would more credible than rest of Indians and the low-lives are speaking all types of lies so why not use the guy who was the part of the action? Strange he did not open his mouth for more than two months after getting released by Pakistan.



he is NOT a civilan. Thats makes things understandable.



umair86 said:


> There is a twist to this whole story Abhinandan is a SU-30 pilot not MiG-21 and things are very different than It is stated officially time will clear up things that how SU-30 was shoot down and how MiG-21 was shoot down.



It happens in Your airforce as well. Nothing Surprising.
ISPR has Already confirmed it.



Oscar said:


> Hilarious that Indian members are bringing in all sorts of disconnected, tangential or baseless stories in an attempt to convince people who truly do not give two paisas about their side of the story.
> 
> Every day the Indian narrative mutates, every day we don't give cow dung about it.



I think the Thread is NOT opened by an Indian. So your statement better applies for Pakistanis who are trying their level best to somehow prove that an F16/JF brought MKI down.



Myth_buster_1 said:


> why is this lose chowkidar BJPig trolling this thread?
> 
> 2 R-77 recovered from abhi's wreckage
> 1 R-73 with *tail section attached to pylon recovered*
> 1 R-73 with serial number can be plugged in IAF 2ss and it will come up in their inventory
> 
> so abhi did not even fire a single missile and these low iq chowkidars still dreaming about shooting F-16.
> 
> The two parachute video belongs to Su-30 pilot and the poor Mi-17 which took off to rescue the pilots was shot down by IAI spider SAM.



Your Post has the Info you need to Understand. Good.


----------



## war&peace

XiNiX said:


> he is NOT a civilan. Thats makes things understandable.


lolzzz the lamest excuse..


----------



## Myth_buster_1

XiNiX said:


> Im not really a fan of Modi. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> he is NOT a civilan. Thats makes things understandable.
> 
> 
> 
> It happens in Your airforce as well. Nothing Surprising.
> ISPR has Already confirmed it.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the Thread is NOT opened by an Indian. So your statement better applies for Pakistanis who are trying their level best to somehow prove that an F16/JF brought MKI down.
> 
> 
> 
> Your Post has the Info you need to Understand. Good.





*Understand what?*

You are just being delusional like rest of the chowkidars.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TsAr

XiNiX said:


> I cant help you, if you think I believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> Comprehension Issues ?
> I was talking about Physics, Dr Khan and Water car Engineer.


Dr Khan was not a physicist, he was a metallurgist and what does this water car has to do on this thread.


----------



## messiach

Tactical weapon strike is a definite possibility. For some odd reason it is still considered conventional weaponry in mainstream media & it is just the opposite. Recent most warhead fuzers onboard nasr can draw seriously devastating acute consequences in 5-10 kms area.



Keysersoze said:


> Surgical strike is just a word used in the west like collateral damage and so on. It was created to prevent blowback from civilian casualties. In the India/Pak paradigm it is a term used to claim blows when none have occurred. i.e. "Why did your air strike not cause any damage yet you claim 300 enemy dead?" the answer would be "We performed a "surgical strike" which on two occasions no one has found any proof of even with satellite imaging."

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## airomerix

Dadizonline said:


> Wow that means our 3/4 wreckage missiles discovered by ISPR (If not replica from ebay or from Chinese inventory) hit 3/4 targets and destroyed it? Btw it's crap if you don't wanna admit.



The parts of R77/R73 recovered by ISPR is still in perfect shape DEAD EYES. 

The AMRAAM wreckage are blown up pieces. How hard is it for you to understand?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Vapnope

@Dadizonline @XiNiX 
Please show us the antenna and transmitter section of Aim120 otherwise we are free to believe that this Amraam was pulled out of a flanker.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Defense Reader

Maxpane said:


> Next news should be that it was jf 17


Sir my belive getting day after day that hunter was JF 17 or it stunned all international audience on feb 27 because following things which happens to us after 27 feb
1 it was JF 17 which shoot down su 30 mki thus us ask information regarding JF17 program through IMF conditions
2 or USA have leak or secret knowledge of up coming JF block 3 capabilities

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Suriya

airomerix said:


> We did not have evidence of Su 30 shoot down. You presented it yourself in Delhi. The same AMRAAM you're referring to. Are you all Indians so stupid? What does a missile wreckage tells you? It tells you that it went inside you. Idiots.
> 
> The rest of your post is just crap to save face. Your so called Gnat's landed in Pakistan on the sight of F-104s. Learn history. Idiot.



What an hilarious argument . 
*Just because we presented AMRAAM debris that means a Su 30 was shoot down by it ??*

Then i've got good news for you to go more crazy , actually we lost *4 Su30s and 2 Mig21 as they were all fire at with AMRAAM missilss .


Pakistan F-16 pilots fired 4-5 AMRAAMs at Indian planes from 40-50 km

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...om-40-50-km/articleshow/68277222.cms?from=mdr

*


----------



## criticalerror

member.exe said:


> Does a tactical Nasr make a small mushroom cloud?


Yeah they do


 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sp...tion#/media/File:Hardtack_II_Socorro_test.jpg

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Suriya

Salza said:


> Fact is, India even didn't dared to response Pakistan after Feb 27, is enough proof of PAF superiority that day. PAF bombed on 6 different locations. Indians fighter jets and helicopter were going down here and there. Their radar avionics were jammed in most of the locations clearly indicating IAF was in deep shit trouble that day. *This is only possible when you are losing/locked top tier jets i.e. Su 30s*


*No , one 27th feb night or 28th feb morning this was what was going on .*

*India, Pakistan threatened to unleash missiles at each other: sources*
https://in.reuters.com/article/indi...-missiles-at-each-other-sources-idINKCN1QZ0F1


*And on 28th afternoon Pakistan announced to release Indian pilot Abhinanadan unconditionally and from there things cooled down .*


----------



## Ultima Thule

Suriya said:


> What an hilarious argument .
> *Just because we presented AMRAAM debris that means a Su 30 was shoot down by it ??*
> 
> Then i've got good news for you to go more crazy , actually we lost *4 Su30s and 2 Mig21 as they were all fire at with AMRAAM missilss .
> 
> 
> Pakistan F-16 pilots fired 4-5 AMRAAMs at Indian planes from 40-50 km
> 
> https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...om-40-50-km/articleshow/68277222.cms?from=mdr
> *


Nice Indian version of bed time stories by you mighty IAF, and not single target hit by those 4-5 AMRAAM, you're joking yourself @Suriya  and last your MKI was down by JF-17+SD-10 combo not F-16+AMRAAM combo as per various senior/professional members here on PDF, which have links to PAF/Pakistan military @Suriya


----------



## Suriya

You think MKI was down by JF-17+SD-10 and at the same time call my version as bed time stories .


----------



## Thorough Pro

This is just what your pilots are claiming as an excuse to running away from the fight and Indian pilots are well known for lying to get medals and promotions. If we fired that many missiles, show us the proof. If you can find one, surely you can find them all.




Suriya said:


> *Pakistan F-16 pilots fired 4-5 AMRAAMs at Indian planes from 40-50 km*


----------



## Suriya

Thorough Pro said:


> This is just what your pilots are claiming as an excuse to running away from the fight and Indian pilots are well known for lying to get medals and promotions. If we fired that many missiles, show us the proof. If you can find one, surely you can find them all.


I gave a TOI media report and BTW if PAF jet were firing BVRs to shoot down indian jets why would they fire only one and not more . Simple logic .


----------



## Trailer23

Its funny @Suriya ...

But you and the Indian Media always manage to give reference of Indian-based links/articles.

I honestly can't recall any print media siding with India since the events of Balakot/Operation Swift Retort.

Experts from Australia & Finland have debunked the Balakot Strikes - and they have no connection with Pakistan, so its safe to say that they are neutral parties. Foreign Policy Magazine stated that F-16's were not shot down & they are US-based.

Even we have shown evidence that all of Abhi-nandos MiG-21's missiles were not used in shooting down anything but hot air. You chose not to believe it. Fine. We're okay with that, but you can't refute Foreign Publications.

Especially since you depend on the very same publications when its in your (India's) favor. When you struck at Balakot, you all gave references of Foreign Publications how everyone sided with India.

But (still) you guys keep giving references of your own experts. Good on you.


----------



## Thorough Pro

because they were in control of the situation and are professionals who knew what they were doing. They wouldn't file nilly willy until they are sure of hitting their target. 




Suriya said:


> I gave a TOI media report and BTW if PAF jet were firing BVRs to shoot down indian jets why would they fire only one and not more . Simple logic .


----------



## Suriya

Trailer23 said:


> Its funny @Suriya ...
> 
> But you and the Indian Media always manage to give reference of Indian-based links/articles.
> 
> I honestly can't recall any print media siding with India since the events of Balakot/Operation Swift Retort.
> 
> Experts from Australia & Finland have debunked the Balakot Strikes - and they have no connection with Pakistan, so its safe to say that they are neutral parties. Foreign Policy Magazine stated that F-16's were not shot down & they are US-based.


Before that neutral media , that is *reuters had complained* they were denied access to the Madarssa India said it bombed in the air strike .

*No access to Pakistan religious school that India says it bombed*
*https://in.reuters.com/article/india-kashmir-crisis-page/india-pakistan-threatened-to-unleash-missiles-at-each-other-sources-idINKCN1QZ0F1*


----------



## TheTallGuy

Suriya said:


> What an hilarious argument .
> *Just because we presented AMRAAM debris that means a Su 30 was shoot down by it ??*
> 
> Then i've got good news for you to go more crazy , actually we lost *4 Su30s and 2 Mig21 as they were all fire at with AMRAAM missilss .
> 
> 
> Pakistan F-16 pilots fired 4-5 AMRAAMs at Indian planes from 40-50 km
> 
> https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...om-40-50-km/articleshow/68277222.cms?from=mdr
> *



No..No you have numbers wrong, 3 x Su-30MKI, 3 x MiG-21bis killed by F-16s remaining 2 x Mirage 2000i were taken out by JF17s so we have 8 kills not six until unless you are implying about only F-16 kills. then yes they are six kills.

Finally truth is coming out!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> No..No you have numbers wrong, 3 x Su-30MKI, 3 x MiG-21bis killed by F-16s remaining 2 x Mirage 2000i were taken out by JF17s so we have 8 kills not six until unless you are implying about only F-16 kills. then yes they are six kills.


Why not we killed 10 jets of IAF, as per DGISPR 2 confirmed rest were just rumors @TheTallGuy


----------



## Suriya

TheTallGuy said:


> No..No you have numbers wrong, 3 x Su-30MKI, 3 x MiG-21bis killed by F-16s remaining 2 x Mirage 2000i were taken out by JF17s so we have 8 kills not six until unless you are implying about only F-16 kills. then yes they are six kills.


*This is ridiculously hilarious , isn't it ?? 

BTW in this din of how fanciful numbers of Indian jet down ,
*
*EVerybody forgot the original ISPR statement , where it was clearly stated indian **jet's' were shot down after they crossed **LOC and ** violated pakistani airspace . So there is **hardly any question of **their debris falling deep in side Indian territory @Mav3rick *


----------



## Defense Reader

Suriya said:


> What an hilarious argument .
> *Just because we presented AMRAAM debris that means a Su 30 was shoot down by it ??*
> 
> Then i've got good news for you to go more crazy , actually we lost *4 Su30s and 2 Mig21 as they were all fire at with AMRAAM missilss .
> 
> 
> Pakistan F-16 pilots fired 4-5 AMRAAMs at Indian planes from 40-50 km
> 
> https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...om-40-50-km/articleshow/68277222.cms?from=mdr
> *


Such zuban se nikal hi jata hai 4 su 30 mki confirmed by indian member
Thnx for this critical information please guide your indian fellows too about these huge losses on feb 27


----------



## Ultima Thule

Defense Reader said:


> Such zuban se nikal hi jata hai 4 su 30 mki confirmed by indian member
> Thnx for this critical information please guide your indian fellows too about these huge losses on feb 27


No only 2 were confirmed according to DGISPR rest is just baseless rumors/assumptions by some fanboys @Defense Reader

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Defense Reader

pakistanipower said:


> No only 2 were confirmed according to DGISPR rest is just baseless rumors/assumptions by some fanboys @Defense Reader


Sir g un ko ab un k hi treqy se smjhana pary ga na jab bhi koi evidence dety hain agy se new filam chla dety hain or yeh pichly 2 month se yehi kr rahy hain ab inko un k hi comments se or unki mentality k hisab se javab de qsam se 2 din main sidhy ho jayin ge or sara randi rona nikal jaye ha


----------



## TheTallGuy

@Suriya
its you and your source 4-5 AMRAAM were fired excluding JF17s shots (which is not mentioned)

Can you provide exact order of battle of IAF aircraft in air and scrambled within 20mins of 27 Feb 19 from OSINT

As per my compilation of data
2 x Su-30MKI on CAP from Sirsa AFB
2 Su-30MKI were scrambled from Avantipura AFB
2 x Mirage 2000i were on CAP up north towards shadra
4 x MiG-21bis that were scrambled from Srinagar AFB, Udhampur AFB or Avantipura

Now..
If you could help me find these 8 aircraft.

1st aircraft missing. Su-30MKI was shot down on or near LOC 1 x pilot/wso in our custody Sqn Ldr - Possibily sikh. body returned via Red Cross..as i am sure we dont have it but we have taken liberty to preserve his belongings for future disclosure.. (reason - F-16) this aircraft was on CAP from SIRSA AFB.

2nd Aircraft missing. Su-30MKI in IOK both pilot/WSO dead - later indians have confirmed them to be killed in car accident.(reason - F-16) This Su-30MKI is the scrambler from Avantipura AFB. 

3rd aircraft missing. Su-30MKI killed in IOK (Rajnikanth over Div HQ.) Crew ejected - he is the one to be awarded soon. (Reason of been awarded soon - F-16) 2nd Su-30MKI of pair of CAP from SIRSA AFB

4th aircraft missing. MiG-21BISON that took off from Srinagar (possible wingman) of W/C Abhi..crashed near Srinager AFB due to Technical Fault. (Possible Technical cause - JF17/F-16s) 

5th aircraft missing. MiG-21BISON of W/C.Abhi which we have the wreckage at kotla. (Indian Agree MIA due to F-16)

6th aircraft missing. MiG-21BISON last seen over raisi...(never landed back - reason - F-16)

7th aircraft missing. 1st Mirage 2000i on CAP near Shadra - (Shot down by JF17) upnorth
8th aircraft missing: 2nd Mirage 2000i on CAP near Shadra -(Shot down by JF17) Upnorth

Can you help find them?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## airomerix

Suriya said:


> What an hilarious argument .



Feelings are mutual here along with the rest of the world. 



> *Just because we presented AMRAAM debris that means a Su 30 was shoot down by it ??*


*

Yes. This shows you have no fucking idea how AMRAAM detonates. You would have found it in one or two unexploded pieces had it not hit Su-30. That too finding it in less than 12 hours is commendable. Even NATO couldn't do that when their spanish Typhoon fired an AMRAAM accidentally. It is still not found. 

Need me to say more?

*


> Then i've got good news for you to go more crazy , actually we lost *4 Su30s and 2 Mig21 as they were all fire at with AMRAAM missilss .*


*

l*ol. No one claims that. Only three missiles were fired that day. The details follow;

Missile -------- Casualty ------- Kill Credit
AIM-120-------Su-30 -------- Pakistan
AIM-120------Mig 21 bis ------- Pakistan
Unknown ----- Mi-17------ India 
*





Pakistan F-16 pilots fired 4-5 AMRAAMs at Indian planes from 40-50 km

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...om-40-50-km/articleshow/68277222.cms?from=mdr

Click to expand...

*
You couldnt come up with a more terrible source could you? Indian media? Seriously?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## loanranger

TheTallGuy said:


> No..No you have numbers wrong, 3 x Su-30MKI, 3 x MiG-21bis killed by F-16s remaining 2 x Mirage 2000i were taken out by JF17s so we have 8 kills not six until unless you are implying about only F-16 kills. then yes they are six kills.
> 
> Finally truth is coming out!


TallGuy isnt that a bit too tall of a claim?
Unless you have reason to believe this is true. We are all ears....


----------



## Ultima Thule

airomerix said:


> Missile -------- Casualty ------- Kill Credit
> AIM-120-------Su-30 -------- Pakistan
> AIM-120------Mig 21 bis ------- Pakistan


you have no proof may be MKI was down by AMRAAM but Mig-21 was shot down by JF-17+SD-10 combo according to various senior/professional members here on PDF @airomerix

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTallGuy

loanranger said:


> TallGuy isnt that a bit too tall of a claim?
> Unless you have reason to believe this is true. We are all ears....



No its not a tall claim..i have compiled data from various OSINT and i am preety sure Indian AF is missing 8 aircraft since 27th Feb 19 of which they are admitting 1 x MiG-21bison 

i have posted my findings...as i said before time will tell.. Truth will come out.


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> @Suriya
> its you and your source 4-5 AMRAAM were fired excluding JF17s shots (which is not mentioned)
> 
> Can you provide exact order of battle of IAF aircraft in air and scrambled within 20mins of 27 Feb 19 from OSINT
> 
> As per my compilation of data
> 2 x Su-30MKI on CAP from Sirsa AFB
> 2 Su-30MKI were scrambled from Avantipura AFB
> 2 x Mirage 2000i were on CAP up north towards shadra
> 4 x MiG-21bis that were scrambled from Srinagar AFB, Udhampur AFB or Avantipura
> 
> Now..
> If you could help me find these 8 aircraft.
> 
> 1st aircraft missing. Su-30MKI was shot down on or near LOC 1 x pilot/wso in our custody Sqn Ldr - Possibily sikh. body returned via Red Cross..as i am sure we dont have it but we have taken liberty to preserve his belongings for future disclosure.. (reason - F-16) this aircraft was on CAP from SIRSA AFB.
> 
> 2nd Aircraft missing. Su-30MKI in IOK both pilot/WSO dead - later indians have confirmed them to be killed in car accident.(reason - F-16) This Su-30MKI is the scrambler from Avantipura AFB.
> 
> 3rd aircraft missing. Su-30MKI killed in IOK (Rajnikanth over Div HQ.) Crew ejected - he is the one to be awarded soon. (Reason of been awarded soon - F-16) 2nd Su-30MKI of pair of CAP from SIRSA AFB
> 
> 4th aircraft missing. MiG-21BISON that took off from Srinagar (possible wingman) of W/C Abhi..crashed near Srinager AFB due to Technical Fault. (Possible Technical cause - JF17/F-16s)
> 
> 5th aircraft missing. MiG-21BISON of W/C.Abhi which we have the wreckage at kotla. (Indian Agree MIA due to F-16)
> 
> 6th aircraft missing. MiG-21BISON last seen over raisi...(never landed back - reason - F-16)
> 
> 7th aircraft missing. 1st Mirage 2000i on CAP near Shadra - (Shot down by JF17) upnorth
> 8th aircraft missing: 2nd Mirage 2000i on CAP near Shadra -(Shot down by JF17) Upnorth
> 
> Can you help find them?


why not we shot down 100 Indian jets on 27 FEB lol just lol @TheTallGuy  and single suspected claims downed MKI by Pakistan is also not confirmed, its still in fog of war @TheTallGuy


----------



## TheTallGuy

pakistanipower said:


> you have no proof may be MKI was down by AMRAAM but Mig-21 was shot down by JF-17+SD-10 combo according to various senior/professional members here on PDF



Sir, MiG-21bison of W/C Abhi was shot down by F-16 with AMRAAM (They even have HUD footage not shared yet)

JF-17+SD10A combo shot down they took out Mirage 2000i armed with MICA problem is who flew them? thats why underwraps from Pakistan and Indian AF notice Mirage 2000i is completely vanished from there narrative.


----------



## Suriya

pakistanipower said:


> you have no proof may be MKI was down by AMRAAM but Mig-21 was shot down by JF-17+SD-10 combo according to various senior/professional members here on PDF @airomerix


That guy thinks it was F-16's AMRAAM and not JF-17's BVR that shot down indian Mig 21 . You guys first decide among yourselves which aircraft was used .


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> No its not a tall claim..i have compiled data from various OSINT and i am preety sure Indian AF is missing 8 aircraft since 27th Feb 19 of which they are admitting 1 x MiG-21bison
> 
> i have posted my findings...as i said before time will tell.. Truth will come out.


missing didn't means shot down it might be crashed from technical mishap or friendly fire incident, similar to MI-17 case @TheTallGuy


----------



## TheTallGuy

pakistanipower said:


> missing didn't means shot down it might be crashed from technical mishap or friendly fire incident, similar to MI-17 case @TheTallGuy



why isnt technical mishaps are not happening now..are you saying IAF has stop flying?

Small bit of information there airdefences were blind as well due to loss of Green Pine Radar


----------



## Defense Reader

loanranger said:


> TallGuy isnt that a bit too tall of a claim?
> Unless you have reason to believe this is true. We are all ears....


It is the way which indians understand


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> Sir, MiG-21bison of W/C Abhi was shot down by F-16 with AMRAAM (They even have HUD footage not shared yet)
> 
> JF-17+SD10A combo shot down they took out Mirage 2000i armed with MICA problem is who flew them? thats why underwraps from Pakistan and Indian AF notice Mirage 2000i is completely vanished from there narrative.


you have no proof abhi shot down by AMRAAM, do you have any links to PAF/Pakistan military, on 27 FEB no Mirage-2000 were used as per various senior/professional members here on PDF, instead they were used on BALAKOT strike 26 FEB @TheTallGuy Mirage 2000 is mainly for strike missions for IAF @TheTallGuy


----------



## Suriya

TheTallGuy said:


> No its not a tall claim..i have compiled data from various OSINT and i am preety sure Indian AF is missing 8 aircraft since 27th Feb 19 of which they are admitting 1 x MiG-21bison
> 
> i have posted my findings...as i said before time will tell.. Truth will come out.


 
1. *EVerybody forgot the original ISPR statement , where it was clearly stated indian **jet's' were shot down after they crossed LOC and violated pakistani airspace .*

You mean to say ISPR is lying in the first place .


----------



## Defense Reader

Suriya said:


> That guy thinks it was F-16's AMRAAM and not JF-17's BVR that shot down indian Mig 21 . You guys first decide among yourselves which aircraft was used .


As per statement by DGISPR chose platform of you choice [emoji6] it is no matter for us either it was JF17 or F16

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Myth_buster_1

pakistanipower said:


> missing didn't means shot down it might be crashed from technical mishap or friendly fire incident, similar to MI-17 case @TheTallGuy



change your username to pakistani whimp, 
almost all your posts are questioning and contradiction. u r really annoying.



Suriya said:


> 1. *EVerybody forgot the original ISPR statement , where it was clearly stated indian **jet's' were shot down after they crossed LOC and violated pakistani airspace .*
> 
> You mean to say ISPR is lying in the first place .



Listen, Pakistan is not in a position to show themselves as aggressors, they have to modify the story of event to project themselves as defenders not aggressors even though PAF launched offensive air strikes in India.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Suriya

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Listen, Pakistan is not in a position to show themselves as aggressors, they have to modify the story of event to project themselves as defenders not aggressors even though PAF launched offensive air strikes in India.


*You mean to say Pakistani official version is a matter of convenience depending on your choice and fancy . LOL*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTallGuy

Suriya said:


> You means to say Pakistani official version is a matter of convenience depending on your choice and fancy . LOL



Its is always like that ...isnt your country narrative is based upon same principle..

By the way i asked you to help me count the losses of IAF on 27th Feb 19. so help me find in plausible descriptive manner do not side step and go off topic.


----------



## Defense Reader

Myth_buster_1 said:


> change your username to pakistani whimp,
> almost all your posts are questioning and contradiction. u r really annoying.
> 
> 
> 
> Listen, Pakistan is not in a position to show themselves as aggressors, they have to modify the story of event to project themselves as defenders not aggressors even though PAF launched offensive air strikes in India.


@Myth_buster_1 pakistanipower will never question when a Russian made platform shoot any Western platforms or 2ndly Western platforms shoot down by PAF in indian inventory


----------



## Suriya

TheTallGuy said:


> Its is always like that ...isnt your country narrative is based upon same principle..


 u can also claim u have a base in Mars , then piss and go to bed .


----------



## TheTallGuy

Suriya said:


> u can also claim u have a base in Mars , then piss and go to bed .



So you are not going to help me..nor you have knowledge to help me..its Ok if you would have said it in beginning i dont have the knowlegde nor the expertise on this matter - its OK we can agree to disagree...but off the floor outlash shows you are butt-hurt and you do not know what to do? Truth sometimes is hard to swallow! its OK

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> why isnt technical mishaps are not happening now..are you saying IAF has stop flying?
> 
> Small bit of information there airdefences were blind as well due to loss of Green Pine Radar


first they are not high alert conditions as late FEB, second IFF are different for both system ( Russian/ Israeli), that shows that IAF still have a problem to blends both IFF systems to one another, and third you forget the terrain factor (mountains) @TheTallGuy



Myth_buster_1 said:


> change your username to pakistani whimp,
> almost all your posts are questioning and contradiction. u r really annoying.


if you don't like my post just don't read it, and what a contradiction in My posts, I am simply telling that DGISPR has a confirmed news we were shot down 2 indian jets, One is MIG-21, second is UNKNOWN, rest is all just rumors/wishful thinking, thanks @Myth_buster_1


----------



## TheTallGuy

pakistanipower said:


> first they are not high alert conditions as late FEB, second IFF are different for both system ( Russian/ Israeli), that shows that IAF still have a problem to blends both IFF systems to one another, and third you forget the terrain factor (mountains) @TheTallGuy



Sir, Things are same alert is there if it had died down how come PAF is still flying Fully armed Fighters in CAP.

Small bit of Information - Why did IAF able to fire a single Air to Air Missile at PAF strike Package or its escorts or the top cover that came after 60seconds. just think why - even in unguided firing would have scattered a bit but no IAF does not claim to fire a single missile except Mig-21Bison we shot down with all 4 x missiles intact. 

IFF system and radar pictures were completely spoofed that is why Srinager AFB Air defense opened fire upon Mil Mi-17V5 - that shows SAM Battery had its 1st Line Defense Smashed - they were sure of the proximity of threat as very close may be thinking Srinagar AFB is about to be attacked - That it self shows they did nit have the complete picture since Green Pine was taken out as priority target.

Just Look At it the 1st line defense 2 x Mirage 2000i CAP and 2 x MiG-21Bison scrambler
2 Mirage 2000i gets shot down then one of MiG-21Bison gets shot down while in climb after take off. No Wonder IAI Spyder SAM system opened fire! and then 2nd MiG-21BISON reaches Rajouri with help of Standing Su-30MKI CAP and then it gets shot down in last (W.C Abhi)

Mountains work both ways..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> Just Look At it the 1st line defense 2 x Mirage 2000i CAP and 2 x MiG-21Bison scrambler
> 2 Mirage 2000i gets shot down then one of MiG-21Bison gets shot down while in climb after take off. No Wonder IAI Spyder SAM system opened fire! and then 2nd MiG-21BISON reaches Rajouri with help of Standing Su-30MKI CAP and then it gets shot down in last (W.C Abhi)
> 
> Mountains work both ways..


You assume Mirage-2000 Part by yourself, there are no Mirage-2000 jet used by IAF on 27 FEB, there is not a single hint according to IAF/Indian govt that Mirage-2000 was used by IAF on 27 FEB, For IAF Mirage 2000 is mainly their strike jet, and MKI was also not confirmed by govt/PAF, its still in fog of war, and rest we we can speculate/assume @TheTallGuy


----------



## PDF

TheTallGuy said:


> Sir, Things are same alert is there if it had died down how come PAF is still flying Fully armed Fighters in CAP.
> 
> Small bit of Information - Why did IAF able to fire a single Air to Air Missile at PAF strike Package or its escorts or the top cover that came after 60seconds. just think why - even in unguided firing would have scattered a bit but no IAF does not claim to fire a single missile except Mig-21Bison we shot down with all 4 x missiles intact.
> 
> IFF system and radar pictures were completely spoofed that is why Srinager AFB Air defense opened fire upon Mil Mi-17V5 - that shows SAM Battery had its 1st Line Defense Smashed - they were sure of the proximity of threat as very close may be thinking Srinagar AFB is about to be attacked - That it self shows they did nit have the complete picture since Green Pine was taken out as priority target.
> 
> Just Look At it the 1st line defense 2 x Mirage 2000i CAP and 2 x MiG-21Bison scrambler
> 2 Mirage 2000i gets shot down then one of MiG-21Bison gets shot down while in climb after take off. No Wonder IAI Spyder SAM system opened fire! and then 2nd MiG-21BISON reaches Rajouri with help of Standing Su-30MKI CAP and then it gets shot down in last (W.C Abhi)
> 
> Mountains work both ways..


Many things are not out in public. Wait tillt


TheTallGuy said:


> Sir, Things are same alert is there if it had died down how come PAF is still flying Fully armed Fighters in CAP.
> 
> Small bit of Information - Why did IAF able to fire a single Air to Air Missile at PAF strike Package or its escorts or the top cover that came after 60seconds. just think why - even in unguided firing would have scattered a bit but no IAF does not claim to fire a single missile except Mig-21Bison we shot down with all 4 x missiles intact.
> 
> IFF system and radar pictures were completely spoofed that is why Srinager AFB Air defense opened fire upon Mil Mi-17V5 - that shows SAM Battery had its 1st Line Defense Smashed - they were sure of the proximity of threat as very close may be thinking Srinagar AFB is about to be attacked - That it self shows they did nit have the complete picture since Green Pine was taken out as priority target.
> 
> Just Look At it the 1st line defense 2 x Mirage 2000i CAP and 2 x MiG-21Bison scrambler
> 2 Mirage 2000i gets shot down then one of MiG-21Bison gets shot down while in climb after take off. No Wonder IAI Spyder SAM system opened fire! and then 2nd MiG-21BISON reaches Rajouri with help of Standing Su-30MKI CAP and then it gets shot down in last (W.C Abhi)
> 
> Mountains work both ways..


2 aircrafts +1 heli down, no loss from our side.
Don't rely on OSINT. the details are not what is being told. PAF will never share them. Just know that the CAPs are occurring due to the possibility of revenue for humiliation served. Though, possibility of another attack has lowered so partial airspace ban lifted.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## baqai

pakistanipower said:


> you have no proof may be MKI was down by AMRAAM but Mig-21 was shot down by JF-17+SD-10 combo according to various senior/professional members here on PDF @airomerix



how do you define "professional" can you name some of those members?


----------



## NA71

M.Musa said:


> Many things are not out in public. Wait tillt
> 
> 2 aircrafts +1 heli down, no loss from our side.
> Don't rely on OSINT. the details are not what is being told. PAF will never share them. Just know that the CAPs are occurring due to the possibility of revenue for humiliation served. Though, possibility of another attack has lowered so partial airspace ban lifted.


Question is in today's age...info releases as part of the game plan.... what object we have achieved by holding info? the other side is fully geared up and releasing fake /imaginary info on daily basis. 
If we had a full media briefing of actual events ....how it was unfavorable?


----------



## KhanBaba2

pakistanipower said:


> One is MIG-21, second is UNKNOWN,



UNKNOWN !! . It seems your radar cannot differentiate between a Mig 21 and a SU-30.


----------



## Ultima Thule

baqai said:


> how do you define "professional" can you name some of those members?


like @Oscar @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @Horus @Dazzler @Rashid Mahmood hinted that @baqai



KhanBaba2 said:


> UNKNOWN !! . It seems your radar cannot differentiate between a Mig 21 and a SU-30.


PAF/govt of Pakistan hiding from public @KhanBaba2


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

KhanBaba2 said:


> UNKNOWN !! . It seems your radar cannot differentiate between a Mig 21 and a SU-30.






Because your radars can confirm 300 terrorists killed in Balakot and an F-16 shot down..........

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KhanBaba2

pakistanipower said:


> PAF/govt of Pakistan hiding from public



Why ?

They seem to be telling everything else.



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Because your radars can confirm 300 terrorists killed in Balakot and an F-16 shot down..........



That's a troll post. I am sorry but I don't troll back. You can keep trolling me though. I have no problems.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Goku-kun

KhanBaba2 said:


> Why ?
> 
> They seem to be telling everything else.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a troll post. I am sorry but I don't troll back. You can keep trolling me though. I have no problems.


the drawings that your senior officials refer to as radar data is worth of laughing..first of all it was displaying names of jf-17,f-16 on the radar while wee all know that radar only analyzes the incoming target and than the people who are operating the radar use the knowledge obtained to from radar to identify the target(no radar shows names of incoming target) so it proves that your jokers all made it up and decided on their own that from where an f16 is coming and from where jf17 is coming..I can make a better drawing than what your senior officials presented..


----------



## KhanBaba2

Goku-kun said:


> the drawings that your senior officials refer to as radar data is worth of laughing..first of all it was displaying names of jf-17,f-16 on the radar while wee all know that radar only analyzes the incoming target and than the people who are operating the radar use the knowledge obtained to from radar to identify the target(no radar shows names of incoming target) so it proves that your jokers all made it up and decided on their own that from where an f16 is coming and from where jf17 is coming..I can make a better drawing than what your senior officials presented..



I am not talking about the drawings that our officials showed. 

I am saying is that since your people do not know the make of the 2nd plane they downed, your radar cannot make out the difference between Mig 21 (which is tiny) and SU-30 (Which is huge)


----------



## SQ8

KhanBaba2 said:


> I am not talking about the drawings that our officials showed.
> 
> I am saying is that since your people do not know the make of the 2nd plane they downed, your radar cannot make out the difference between Mig 21 (which is tiny) and SU-30 (Which is huge)


They did, confirmed via NCTR and RWR signature that went kaput ..we just haven’t released info.
Wait for next air forces monthly issue, it will be published

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## ANG

Dear moderators, can we kindly please close down some of these threads. We have had hundreds of pages of discussions across numerous threads arguing over and over a mute and dead point. Unless the PAF releases proof, we will never know for sure. I understand the PAF cannot release some information, due to national security and maintaining military capabilities. Thanks!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ultima Thule

KhanBaba2 said:


> Why ?
> 
> They seem to be telling everything else.


Because we didn't want to escalate situation further @KhanBaba2


----------



## Mav3rick

Suriya said:


> *This is ridiculously hilarious , isn't it ??
> 
> BTW in this din of how fanciful numbers of Indian jet down ,
> *
> *EVerybody forgot the original ISPR statement , where it was clearly stated indian **jet's' were shot down after they crossed **LOC and ** violated pakistani airspace . So there is **hardly any question of **their debris falling deep in side Indian territory @Mav3rick *



The ISPR also made it abundantly clear, in the same press conference, that the debris of the other Jet had fallen on the Indian side of the LoC.


----------



## Fledgingwings

Indians


----------



## baqai

what does confuses me is that ISPR statement says THE WORLD HAVE SEEN THE DEBRIS ... when did we see the debris of second plane? or is it hidden in plain sight?


----------



## TheTallGuy

pakistanipower said:


> You assume Mirage-2000 Part by yourself, there are no Mirage-2000 jet used by IAF on 27 FEB, there is not a single hint according to IAF/Indian govt that Mirage-2000 was used by IAF on 27 FEB, For IAF Mirage 2000 is mainly their strike jet, and MKI was also not confirmed by govt/PAF, its still in fog of war, and rest we we can speculate/assume



Sir, Mirage 2000i were there and they are shotdown by JF17s this fight didnt happened in Rajauri it happened up north. Mirage 2000i were in the mix for sure on 27th Feb 19. it is even reported in Indian Narrative. for example this


----------



## PDF

NA71 said:


> Question is in today's age...info releases as part of the game plan.... what object we have achieved by holding info? the other side is fully geared up and releasing fake /imaginary info on daily basis.
> If we had a full media briefing of actual events ....how it was unfavorable?


Its also to give India space and a way to save face. We have our reasons not to corner them to such an extend. However, we know, they know, and that's all that matters.
That other side has become a joke. IAF reputation has declined and the media has already acted like a circus.


----------



## Sidacca

Only mig21 of abhi got shot rest are all fake claims and chest thump.....yes that unfortunate heli too.
Indians are pathetic liars I have noticed in this whole fiasco but our claim of su30 seems fake too.........


----------



## airomerix

baqai said:


> how do you define "professional" can you name some of those members?



I sometimes do not get this guy. He takes PDF ranks way too seriously.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TsAr

airomerix said:


> I sometimes do not get this guy. He takes PDF ranks way too seriously.


Some members prefer to live in la la Land, he is one of those

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khanasifm

One thing is sure per parachutes and eye witnesses there were three so there were more than one aircraft shot down 
Historically iaf claimed in 65 and 71 whole sqn shot down and nothing later transpired not to say there were claims on paf which were later perhaps proved wrong in the fog of war but complete or most of 19 sqn was claimed there is bbc footage of that interview any way iaf got the wind out of them that’s for sure ...... as
Mighty SU30 did not do squat and even the claim is based on shot down aircraft being the mig-21 one which took actions before being shot down itself any way all 4 missile of mig-21 were recovered .... 

Leave it that time will tell sooner later some one will accept after retirement


----------



## Mace

khanasifm said:


> One thing is sure per parachutes and eye witnesses there were three so there were more than one aircraft shot down





This is something Pak posters are unwilling to confront head on. We all agree 3 parachutes went down from stricken aircrafts on 27th based on eye witnesses and video footage. One was Abhi. The second 2 parachutes incident one has to be a Su30 or a 2 seater F16.

My view, a F16B or D went down, most likely F16D. The Su30s were way too deep in Indian airspace evading or one taking an amraam (unverified).


----------



## Pubg1

Trailer23 said:


> Experts from Australia & Finland


The aussie "expert" claimed the spice missiles missed because of shallow attack angle. Minimum angle of attack of these missiles is 60 deg. So he is not factually correct. And he is just a armchair expert.


baqai said:


> what does confuses me is that ISPR statement says THE WORLD HAVE SEEN THE DEBRIS ... when did we see the debris of second plane? or is it hidden in plain sight?


Ispr head has changed his statements thrice in 1 week.
1. We have 2 pilots in custody.
2. We have 1 pilot.
3. After 1 week, in TV interview, 2 pilots. One dead.

4. Weather does not permit balakot madrassa media visit.
5. After 40 days, in which the madrassa was closed for 20 days, 18 min visit of media allowed, with area restricted.
6. Everyone has seen the debris.?? No connection with reality. He speaks like our politicians. 
Don't take ispr as gospel.
And also the staff here in pdf are in their teens and twenties. Don't take them seriously.


----------



## mingle

Mace said:


> This is something Pak posters are unwilling to confront head on. We all agree 3 parachutes went down from stricken aircrafts on 27th based on eye witnesses and video footage. One was Abhi. The second 2 parachutes incident one has to be a Su30 or a 2 seater F16.
> 
> My view, a F16B or D went down, most likely F16D. The Su30s were way too deep in Indian airspace evading or one taking an amraam (unverified).


shahzudin was alone in F16 B or D??? When abhi none done all missles r recovered with war heads?? AMRAAM if won't hit won't explode what Dhona was showing is moter part of AMRAAM. It means it hit and exploded and Indians recovered from down plane. Who hit Mi17? Americans count is ok with F16s why they hide when they don't like Us? Grow up ask Dhona don't Beleive on shiv aror or other idiots they write what fed from dhona to hide embarrassment.



Pubg1 said:


> The aussie "expert" claimed the spice missiles missed because of shallow attack angle. Minimum angle of attack of these missiles is 60 deg. So he is not factually correct. And he is just a armchair expert.
> 
> Ispr head has changed his statements thrice in 1 week.
> 1. We have 2 pilots in custody.
> 2. We have 1 pilot.
> 3. After 1 week, in TV interview, 2 pilots. One dead.
> 
> 4. Weather does not permit balakot madrassa media visit.
> 5. After 40 days, in which the madrassa was closed for 20 days, 18 min visit of media allowed, with area restricted.
> 6. Everyone has seen the debris.?? No connection with reality. He speaks like our politicians.
> Don't take ispr as gospel.
> And also the staff here in pdf are in their teens and twenties. Don't take them seriously.


Tell us one thing where AMRAAM explode? Don't take dhona as Gita as well
.why Modi was saying ager Rafale hota to natija Kuch aur hota? When Mig 21 shooting falcon? Go ask ur Govt where AMRAAM exploded it was motor part they recovered from downed jet. Answer


----------



## Mace

mingle said:


> shahzudin was alone in F16 B or D??? When abhi none done all missles r recovered with war heads?? AMRAAM if won't hit won't explode what Dhona was showing is moter part of AMRAAM. It means it hit and exploded and Indians recovered from down plane. Who hit Mi17? Americans count is ok with F16s why they hide when they don't like Us? Grow up ask Dhona don't Beleive on shiv aror or other idiots they write what fed from dhona to hide embarrassment.
> 
> 
> Tell us one thing where AMRAAM explode? Don't take dhona as Gita as well.



Again you are just another Pak poster skirting around available evidence. Explain the 2 parachutes from second stricken fighter near loc.


----------



## Pubg1

mingle said:


> shahzudin was alone in F16 B or D??? When abhi none done all missles r recovered with war heads?? AMRAAM if won't hit won't explode what Dhona was showing is moter part of AMRAAM. It means it hit and exploded and Indians recovered from down plane. Who hit Mi17? Americans count is ok with F16s why they hide when they don't like Us? Grow up ask Dhona don't Beleive on shiv aror or other idiots they write what fed from dhona to hide embarrassment.
> 
> 
> Tell us one thing where AMRAAM explode? Don't take dhona as Gita as well.


I will only say our officials have made official statements and stuck to them. No changes. Media I can't speak for. 
A official statement is supposed to have some gravitas and verifiability behind it. Thats why it's called "official". If officials start giving off the cuff statements, then we just have Baghdad Bob.


----------



## mingle

Mace said:


> Again you are just another Pak poster skirting around available evidence. Explain the 2 parachutes from second stricken fighter near loc.


We claimed ur jets u claim falcon correct? Now leave chai wala aside poor guy recovered. U claim F16D two seater but u claim Shahzudin only where is second pilot? Burden of proof is on ur shoulder not US.


----------



## Mig hunter

Mace said:


> We all agree 3 parachutes went down from stricken aircrafts on 27th based on eye witnesses and video footage. One was Abhi. The second 2 parachutes incident one has to be a Su30 or a 2 seater F16.


Wow you just summed it up very nicely... There were no 3 x parashoot first of all.. If you have any proof plz share so that then we all agree


Mace said:


> My view, a F16B or D went down, most likely F16D. The Su30s were way too deep in Indian airspace evading or one taking an amraam (unverified).


Now again u made another assumption... If SU 30 were deep inside Indian air space which they were not as according to Indian sources mig21, su 30, and mirajs were scrambled, same way F 16 were not operating in the fwd attack line as actually jfs and miraj were on the front.. F 16 were providing cover to them..
I have real info what happened as actually I don't have any credible source to back it up as sme is not available in media...


----------



## mingle

Pubg1 said:


> I will only say our officials have made official statements and stuck to them. No changes. Media I can't speak for.
> A official statement is supposed to have some gravitas and verifiability behind it. Thats why it's called "official". If officials start giving off the cuff statements, then we just have Baghdad Bob.


U just making bull now answer what I ask don't tell me official. Official u claim F16D now claim 1pilot where is second pilot? Baghdad Bob is what u Indiots were ranting and still ranting but no body believe on U and laugh on U keep embarrassing urself. Tell me second pilot name.

No Indiots tell Us where AMRAAM exploded?????


----------



## mingle

Pubg1 said:


> Has our official statement claimed which f16 was allegedly shot down ?
> And I would advise you to watch your language.


U watch ur language ranting Indiots tell us where AMRAAM exploded u not answering.??? Our official position is we hitt ur SU30 ***


----------



## KhanBaba2

Oscar said:


> They did, confirmed via NCTR and RWR signature that went kaput ..we just haven’t released info.
> Wait for next air forces monthly issue, it will be published




Great. Will wait for it. Any theory why did have not published it so far.


----------



## Mace

mingle said:


> We claimed ur jets u claim falcon correct? Now leave chai wala aside poor guy recovered. U claim F16D two seater but u claim Shahzudin only where is second pilot? Burden of proof is on ur shoulder not US.



2 parachutes went down?? - yes that implies 2 pilots not one. I have never claimed Shahzudin or anybody else. 

Yes burden to conclusively provide evidence rests with the adversary. But that should not stop us from asking questions.

Based on available info, 2 parachutes other than Abhi, a 2 seater fighter went down near loc - most likely a F16.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khanasifm

F-16 will be difficult to hide as US monitoring and alms system will notify of loss aircraft  LM would know event before anyone else
Plus US monitoring  
Any way I will leave it that 

End of story move on as I said sooner later everyone would know

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## mingle

Mace said:


> 2 parachutes went down?? - yes that implies 2 pilots not one. I have never claimed Shahzudin or anybody else.
> 
> Yes burden to conclusively provide evidence rests with the adversary. But that should not stop us from asking questions.
> 
> Based on available info, 2 parachutes other than Abhi, a 2 seater fighter went down near loc - most likely a F16.


We claim it was ur Su 30 that where dhona Got AMRAAM.



khanasifm said:


> F-16 will be difficult to hide as US monitoring and alms system will notify of loss aircraft  LM would know event before anyone else
> Plus US monitoring
> Any way I will leave it that
> 
> End of story move on as I said sooner later everyone would know


Ranting Indiots will keep ranting and whole world will keep laughing on them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mace

khanasifm said:


> F-16 will be difficult to hide as US monitoring and alms system will notify of loss aircraft  LM would know event before anyone else
> Plus US monitoring
> Any way I will leave it that
> 
> End of story move on as I said sooner later everyone would know



Do you believe LM would rather keep the loss of F16 (if true) under wraps for any reasons  (F21 for India) 

Stop being naive.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mig hunter

There are few intangibles that we must consider before jumping to any conclusion. As the perceptions do matter... 
1. Remember the night., IAF violated Pakistani air space, there was jubilation all over India specially the Indian media. Their tone was arrogant and their body language was just like they have conquered Mars
2. Then the next day came, we all know what PAF did, now here are few intangible facts that India lost another of their frontline fighter, may be it was miraj or su30
3. If an F 16 would have been lost, Indians would not have been on the backfoot irrespective they lost Mig. It would have been their bigger achievment than the Balakot strike, 
4. In today's world u can't hide an F 16 wreckage. By now it would have been surfaced through any channel as Pakistan armed forces have no shortage of enemies with in our own country
5. USA would have leaked the info through any other means regarding F 16 being shot down, although it is 50% possible
6. Observe Indian media and Modi body language on that day
7. Listen Modi saying if we would have rafael
8. Analyze coverage of international media, if there would have been an iota of chance that F 16 was shot down then international media is not very friendly to Pakistan
9. Observe body language of Indian military representatives during press conference. It sums up all, moral doesn't fade away if you have lost a soviet Era mig against the front line fighter of your enemy
10. Indian propaganda machine is a much lethat, bigger and smarter, it's not difficult for them to get clue of downing of Pakistani jet
11. If you can have the video of Indian jet wreckage from IOK, then they can also get the same from AJK of F16
So these are few of many aspects which any sane person can understand the real outcome events, any body is welcome to counter these aspects with his own solid logic

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## umair86

mingle said:


> shahzudin was alone in F16 B or D??? When abhi none done all missles r recovered with war heads?? AMRAAM if won't hit won't explode what Dhona was showing is moter part of AMRAAM. It means it hit and exploded and Indians recovered from down plane. Who hit Mi17? Americans count is ok with F16s why they hide when they don't like Us? Grow up ask Dhona don't Beleive on shiv aror or other idiots they write what fed from dhona to hide embarrassment.
> 
> 
> Tell us one thing where AMRAAM explode? Don't take dhona as Gita as well
> .why Modi was saying ager Rafale hota to natija Kuch aur hota? When Mig 21 shooting falcon? Go ask ur Govt where AMRAAM exploded it was motor part they recovered from downed jet. Answer


There is no such serving officer in No 19 squadron it was not even involved in this whole operation it is based at Bholari in south near Karachi and it was not involved. SU-30MKI was downed end of story F-16s never came close to the battle theatre they engaged miles away through BVR with AMRAAM I believe SUKHOI was hit by two missiles at least as it was trying flee towards IOK and pilots drifted with wind towards Pakistani side. Two pilots or one IAF was beaten up pretty bad that day.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mace

Mig hunter said:


> There are few intangibles that we must consider before jumping to any conclusion. As the perceptions do matter...
> 1. Remember the night., IAF violated Pakistani air space, there was jubilation all over India specially the Indian media. Their tone was arrogant and their body language was just like they have conquered Mars
> 2. Then the next day came, we all know what PAF did, now here are few intangible facts that India lost another of their frontline fighter, may be it was miraj or su30
> 3. If an F 16 would have been lost, Indians would not have been on the backfoot irrespective they lost Mig. It would have been their bigger achievment than the Balakot strike,
> 4. In today's world u can't hide an F 16 wreckage. By now it would have been surfaced through any channel as Pakistan armed forces have no shortage of enemies with in our own country
> 5. USA would have leaked the info through any other means regarding F 16 being shot down, although it is 50% possible
> 6. Observe Indian media and Modi body language on that day
> 7. Listen Modi saying if we would have rafael
> 8. Analyze coverage of international media, if there would have been an iota of chance that F 16 was shot down then international media is not very friendly to Pakistan
> 9. Observe body language of Indian military representatives during press conference. It sums up all, moral doesn't fade away if you have lost a soviet Era mig against the front line fighter of your enemy
> 10. Indian propaganda machine is a much lethat, bigger and smarter, it's not difficult for them to get clue of downing of Pakistani jet
> 11. If you can have the video of Indian jet wreckage from IOK, then they can also get the same from AJK of F16
> So these are few of many aspects which any sane person can understand the real outcome events, any body is welcome to counter these aspects with his own solid logic



1. Agreed. India crossed a red line. 

2. Disagree - There is no proof of India losing a frontline aircraft. Chacha Ghafoor has not shared any convincing fact.

3. Immediately after Balakot strikes, Sushma wanted situation deescalated. Yes in India parliament still has control over armed forces. (Sidenotes: 1. Balakot is the news. IAF might repeat this in future unless Pak puts its house in order. 2. IAF was caught with its pants down on 27th. This IAF hopefully has learnt the lessons)

4. If you think hiding a f16 is difficult, how do you hide a big a$$ed su30 from a hostile local populace? 

5. Doubtful with F21 sales and jobs on the line.

6. What body language do you expect? I believe he did threaten with a Brahmos strike.

7. Rafale is a hot political potato in India during elections. That was for home audience and opposition parties. No one in opposition is bringing the Rafale subject again. Points to Modi on this actually. IAF will get its wish list.

8. Which international media says su30 also went down?

9. Indian armed forces were most definitely restrained by the political bosses. I will be pi$$ed off too if my hands are tied and cannot hit back.

10. Indians agreed Pak did a better propaganda job.

11. No you can better control what gets out of AJK than this side of the border - local hostile populace.

I will add another one:
12. PAF had the element of surprise on 27th. They seem to be executing one of their pre rehearsed tactics. AMRAAM is lethal with hit probability of 77% before 27th. If true that they launched at least 5 amraams and got only one confirmed kill to show, then PAF were fairly incompetent in BVR tactics. There is lessons to be learned and tactics updated by PAF on BVR front.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mingle

umair86 said:


> There is no such serving officer in No 19 squadron it was not even involved in this whole operation it is based at Bholari in south near Karachi and it was not involved. SU-30MKI was downed end of story F-16s never came close to the battle theatre they engaged miles away through BVR with AMRAAM I believe SUKHOI was hit by two missiles at least as it was trying flee towards IOK and pilots drifted with wind towards Pakistani side. Two pilots or one IAF was beaten up pretty bad that day.


I know that I was just kidding them they used to call shahzadudin. Most analyst Beleive I Am talking about western these two were Mig21 droug chutes on ground ppl thought they were pilots.


----------



## KhanBaba2

pakistanipower said:


> Because we didn't want to escalate situation further @KhanBaba2



And you believe that. That's OK. I don't.


----------



## Suriya

umair86 said:


> There is no such serving officer in No 19 squadron it was not even involved in this whole operation it is based at Bholari in south near Karachi and it was not involved. S*U-30MKI was downed end of story* F-16s never came close to the battle theatre they engaged miles away through BVR with AMRAAM I believe SUKHOI was hit by two missiles at least as it was trying flee towards IOK and pilots drifted with wind towards Pakistani side. Two pilots or one IAF was beaten up pretty bad that day.




1. * su30 never crossed LOC or violated Pakistani airspace where pakistan says it shot dowm 2 indian jets .* 

2. Two Indian Mig21 had crossed LOC that day . They were ABhinandan and his wing man . Both of them were flying Mig 21s .



Oscar said:


> They did, confirmed via NCTR and RWR signature that went kaput ..we just haven’t released info.
> Wait for next air forces monthly issue, it will be published



So Why ISPR doesn't come out and say publicly it was a Su30 ?

Yes , we are waiting for past 3 months for a hint of evidence that an Su30 was shot down while ....

*1.* Pakistan says it *shot down only those Indian plane*s that crossed LOC and violated it's airspace .* Seems true given that our Mig 21 wreckage was found across the LOC .*

2. Also what is true , that day *No Su30* operated violated LOC or *operated near the LOC* . And You know they don't have to .


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Mig hunter said:


> There are few intangibles that we must consider before jumping to any conclusion. As the perceptions do matter...
> 1. Remember the night., IAF violated Pakistani air space, there was jubilation all over India specially the Indian media. Their tone was arrogant and their body language was just like they have conquered Mars
> 2. Then the next day came, we all know what PAF did, now here are few intangible facts that India lost another of their frontline fighter, may be it was miraj or su30
> 3. If an F 16 would have been lost, Indians would not have been on the backfoot irrespective they lost Mig. It would have been their bigger achievment than the Balakot strike,
> 4. In today's world u can't hide an F 16 wreckage. By now it would have been surfaced through any channel as Pakistan armed forces have no shortage of enemies with in our own country
> 5. USA would have leaked the info through any other means regarding F 16 being shot down, although it is 50% possible
> 6. Observe Indian media and Modi body language on that day
> 7. Listen Modi saying if we would have rafael
> 8. Analyze coverage of international media, if there would have been an iota of chance that F 16 was shot down then international media is not very friendly to Pakistan
> 9. Observe body language of Indian military representatives during press conference. It sums up all, moral doesn't fade away if you have lost a soviet Era mig against the front line fighter of your enemy
> 10. Indian propaganda machine is a much lethat, bigger and smarter, it's not difficult for them to get clue of downing of Pakistani jet
> 11. If you can have the video of Indian jet wreckage from IOK, then they can also get the same from AJK of F16
> So these are few of many aspects which any sane person can understand the real outcome events, any body is welcome to counter these aspects with his own solid logic


Forget about F-16, 114K Prophets (PBUT) failed to communicate a simple and straightforward TRUTH to the overwhelming majority of the mankind...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mace

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Forget about F-16, 114K Prophets (PBUT) failed to communicate a simple and straightforward TRUTH to the overwhelming majority of the mankind...



Man, you give me the hibbie jibbies

My only solace is you make zero sense to me.


----------



## Mugwop

The Eagle said:


> Remember on the same day/time, an IAF SU-30 crashed and it was reported due to Technical Failure as usual. The crash which was supposed to be discussed more even for the Tech error, on pretexts of MKI being a top tier platform but went under IAF drama of F-16 claim & continuous denial of loss at all. Catch the drift.


Is there a link to such news? Who reported it?



Suriya said:


> 1. * su30 never crossed LOC or violated Pakistani airspace where pakistan says it shot dowm 2 indian jets .*
> 
> 2. Two Indian Mig21 had crossed LOC that day . They were ABhinandan and his wing man . Both of them were flying Mig 21s .
> 
> 
> 
> So Why ISPR doesn't come out and say publicly it was a Su30 ?
> 
> Yes , we are waiting for past 3 months for a hint of evidence that an Su30 was shot down while ....
> 
> *1.* Pakistan says it *shot down only those Indian plane*s that crossed LOC and violated it's airspace .* Seems true given that our Mig 21 wreckage was found across the LOC .*
> 
> 2. Also what is true , that day *No Su30* operated violated LOC or *operated near the LOC* . And You know they don't have to .






What is this then?


----------



## Suriya

Mugwop said:


> Is there a link to such news? Who reported it?



I was asked him @The Eagle about this and he instantly banned for a month .

Then after banning me kept replying to my other posts knowing fully well that i can't respond . Bravo



Mugwop said:


> What is this then?



*LOL The voice in the video is clearly doctored and if you watch the clip , u will clearly see underlying news scroll says* " *Pak Jet downed , F-16 shot down , 3 km inside Azad Kashmir "*


----------



## Mugwop

Suriya said:


> I was asked him @The Eagle about this and he instantly banned for a month .
> 
> Then after banning me kept replying to my other posts knowing fully well that i can't respond . Bravo


Why didn't he ban me then?
I doubt he banned you for a simple question. I have seen posters get away with much much offensive posts.


----------



## Mugwop

Suriya said:


> I was asked him @The Eagle about this and he instantly banned for a month .
> 
> Then after banning me kept replying to my other posts knowing fully well that i can't respond . Bravo
> 
> 
> 
> *LOL The voice in the video is clearly doctored and if you watch the clip , u will clearly see underlying news scroll says* " *Pak Jet downed , F-16 shot down , 3 km inside Azad Kashmir "*


The voice is doctored the scroll doesn't make sense either. First it says f-16 downed then it says chased out by su-30??


----------



## SQ8

KhanBaba2 said:


> Great. Will wait for it. Any theory why did have not published it so far.


No face saving requirements here and verification of claims. Also, the release was to be from a foreign journalist; that is just tradition for PAF



Suriya said:


> 1. * su30 never crossed LOC or violated Pakistani airspace where pakistan says it shot dowm 2 indian jets .*
> 
> 2. Two Indian Mig21 had crossed LOC that day . They were ABhinandan and his wing man . Both of them were flying Mig 21s .
> 
> 
> 
> So Why ISPR doesn't come out and say publicly it was a Su30 ?
> 
> Yes , we are waiting for past 3 months for a hint of evidence that an Su30 was shot down while ....
> 
> *1.* Pakistan says it *shot down only those Indian plane*s that crossed LOC and violated it's airspace .* Seems true given that our Mig 21 wreckage was found across the LOC .*
> 
> 2. Also what is true , that day *No Su30* operated violated LOC or *operated near the LOC* . And You know they don't have to .


ISPR was never asked the question- your side had the need to save face after Abhinandan’s tea party and claim something.


----------



## GriffinsRule

Suriya said:


> *
> 
> *
> 
> *Here is the screen shot of @The Eagle banning me for exactly that reason .
> 
> 
> *


And yet you came back for more abuse?
Why not stick to the BRats forum?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SQ8

GriffinsRule said:


> And yet you came back for more abuse?
> Why not stick to the BRats forum?


Beghairat hain

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Chanakyaa

Oscar said:


> Beghairat hain



Well, You do realize that it matter of a click to ban all the IP ranges of India. Please reserve your respectable words for your forum owners who "pretend" to hate Indian/Indians but do absolutely nothing .. just for some Adsense revenue.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

XiNiX said:


> Well, You do realize that it matter of a click to ban all the IP ranges of India. Please reserve your respectable words for your forum owners who "pretend" to hate Indian/Indians but do absolutely nothing .. just for some Adsense revenue.



how many active indian user does this forum has? 10?20?30? Yes that helps them generate million dollar revenue. 
Indiots, lol


----------



## Windjammer

_*Once there was a fight between Hindu and Muslim neighbours resulting in Hindu kids Manoj and Sunil getting killed.
Their Bharat Matta was in shock, 
she turned around to her husband who could only cry and say if only the boys uncle Ranjeet was here, my boys may have been alive. With no other hope, the hurt and devastated family decided to report to the police station stating that Farooq killed our Manoj and Sunil. The Police officer was well aware of Hindu kids behaviour of trying to bully their neighbours and throwing stones at their windows, although compassionate with Bharat Mata and her family but rightly told them that Farooq along with Tariq had every right to defend their house. Moral of the story, if you if you fancy yourself like a bully then be prepared to be treated in the same manner.
If the Indians as they claim shot down an F-16, then why did they run to America crying about PAF using the Fighting Falcon, Pakistan certainly didn't have an issue with Indians using SU-30s , Mirages or MiGs.....isn't it simply because PAF made mincemeat of the Indian capabilities and misadventure. !!!!*_



XiNiX said:


> Well, You do realize that it matter of a click to ban all the IP ranges of India. Please reserve your respectable words for your forum owners who "pretend" to hate Indian/Indians but do absolutely nothing .. just for some Adsense revenue.


As you have repeatedly proven, it's in your nature to pee where you sit.
Change your nasty habbits before habitualy boxing above your weight.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## SIPRA

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Forget about F-16, *114K* Prophets (PBUT) failed to communicate a simple and straightforward TRUTH to the overwhelming majority of the mankind...



Isn't it *124K*?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

RIWWIR said:


> Isn't it *124K*?


You’re right Kardesh-im. It’s definitely 124K...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## airomerix

Mace said:


> Again you are just another Pak poster skirting around available evidence. Explain the 2 parachutes from second stricken fighter near loc.



Allow me to explain. 

Its an Su-30.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Mace

airomerix said:


> Allow me to explain.
> 
> Its an Su-30.



Thanks your highness for sharing all the supporting evidence


----------



## airomerix

Mace said:


> Thanks your highness for sharing all the supporting evidence



Evidence presented by Indian members

1) There were two parachutes
2) Su-30's didn't go inside Pakistan (as if they sat in JOC during operation) 
3) Because Modi said so. 
4) The color pie charts of press briefing. 
5) What else? 

*Actual Evidence

1) Recovery of all 4 missiles in complete shape. No signs of detonation. 
2) Recovery of blasted fragments of AMRAAM from IoK. 
3) Pentagon correspondents confirmation of complete F-16 count. 

FACT: Had US hid Pakistan's F-16 loss. India would have banned US defense goods on the pretext of US support to Pakistan's false claims. And those goods are worth BILLIONs of dollars. Infact the only reason US is keeping its mouth shut is due to all these arm's deals with India. Else, F-16.net would be the first site to have addition in F-16 conflict news confirming no F-16 loss. *
.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## NA71

Mace said:


> *LOL The voice in the video is clearly doctored and if you watch the clip , u will clearly see underlying news scroll says* " *Pak Jet downed , F-16 shot down , 3 km inside Azad Kashmir "*


It was live news bulletin...you say doctored. Yes after 27/2 mostly Indian news are being doctored



Oscar said:


> Beghairat hain


simple ...try same trolling and ranting in Indian forum they first give you a response full of abusive language ...dragging Islam, terrorism, Economy, Jihadis etc and finally expel you out. Atleast, we are more decent.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Mace

airomerix said:


> Evidence presented by Indian members
> 
> 1) There were two parachutes
> 2) Su-30's didn't go inside Pakistan (as if they sat in JOC during operation)
> 3) Because Modi said so.
> 4) The color pie charts of press briefing.
> 5) What else?
> 
> *Actual Evidence
> 
> 1) Recovery of all 4 missiles in complete shape. No signs of detonation.
> 2) Recovery of blasted fragments of AMRAAM from IoK.
> 3) Pentagon correspondents confirmation of complete F-16 count.
> 
> FACT: Had US hid Pakistan's F-16 loss. India would have banned US defense goods on the pretext of US support to Pakistan's false claims. And those goods are worth BILLIONs of dollars. Infact the only reason US is keeping its mouth shut is due to all these arm's deals with India. Else, F-16.net would be the first site to have addition in F-16 conflict news confirming no F-16 loss. *
> .



There is no need to knock down an excellent upgraded F21 out of contention just because an F16 was presumably lost.



NA71 said:


> It was live news bulletin...you say doctored. Yes after 27/2 mostly Indian news are being doctored



What you had quoted is not mine dude


----------



## Basel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1130006012898021381


----------



## NA71

Mace said:


> There is no need to knock down an excellent upgraded F21 out of contention just because an F16 was presumably lost.
> 
> 
> 
> What you had quoted is not mine dude



mssg delivered.....to whom who wrote the video was doctored....It was repeated on Indian Media for almost one hour....than they took notice ....and story reversed to F16 kill.


----------



## airomerix

Mace said:


> There is no need to knock down an excellent upgraded F21 out of contention just because an F16 was presumably lost.



Please. There is every reason to reject an F-21 which is presumably a further derivative of F-16. Your media would have carried out 1000 expert shows to establish that buying F-21 is a wrong decision since a Block 52 D was 'presumably' shot down. lol.

By a Soviet era Mig 21 i may add.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chanakyaa

Windjammer said:


> As you have repeatedly proven, it's in your nature to pee where you sit.
> Change your nasty habbits before habitualy boxing above your weight.



Yesterday, Your fellow country man ( to whom you abused in a similar fashion ) showed you the reality. 
I dont need to change anything Jammer Mia, Dont mind my words.. atleast care what your own people are telling you... muje na sahi.. atleast respect and have some proper "non abusive" words for them.

Indians ko gali dete dete bhul hi gae ho ki.. Pakistani Bhai logo ko... Gali nahi denli... lol.



Basel said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1130006012898021381



If Journos are so reliable why not this one... She is 'Gora' as well... :

https://www.organiser.org/Encyc/201...l---Italian-journalist-s-huge-revelation.html

After the strike, several opposition parties including the Congress have been questioning the veracity of the strikes. Meanwhile, Italian journalist Francesca Marino has made a shocking revelation and surprised the world by publishing the complete details of the air strikes in StringerAsia (http://www.stringerasia.it), an Italian online magazine. Marino wrote that “Indian Air Force attacked at 3:30 in the morning and according to my information, Pakistani army unit from Shinkiari base camp arrived at the location of the strike around 6 am”. Marino further writes, “Many injured were brought to the Pakistan Army Hospital. According to local sources, 45 people are still being treated in the Army camp hospital. 20 people have died during the treatment.”


----------



## Trailer23

XiNiX said:


> If Journos are so reliable why not this one... She is 'Gora' as well... :


Perhaps one has to question her credibility to begin with.


Trailer23 said:


> ...her credibility is equivalent to a fart in a spacecraft. Especially since she's authored a book titled: *Apocalypse Pakistan*
> 
> Published by: *Niyogi Books* (New Delhi, India)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, so now we should take the credibility of an Italian Journalist who first wrote that book & was practically kicked out of Pakistan (I wonder why). Tell you what..., why don't you guys take the credibility of the article in _Foreign Policy Magazine_ about the Inventory Checks of the PAF F-16's & then we'll talk.
> 
> Furthermore, she hasn't been to the site at Balakot. Is India now stating that a foreign European civilian has better insight on Pakistan than their own Intelligence Agencies...?


I think its fair & safe to say that she has a soft corner for India, or atleast knows that they'll publish her b.s.

When was the last time you saw a Foreign Journalist being pro-Pakistan? And yet we haven't taken a hit in the eyes of the general public abroad. I suppose they don't subscribe to TOI.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GriffinsRule

XiNiX said:


> Yesterday, Your fellow country man ( to whom you abused in a similar fashion ) showed you the reality.
> I dont need to change anything Jammer Mia, Dont mind my words.. atleast care what your own people are telling you... muje na sahi.. atleast respect and have some proper "non abusive" words for them.
> 
> Indians ko gali dete dete bhul hi gae ho ki.. Pakistani Bhai logo ko... Gali nahi denli... lol.
> 
> 
> 
> If Journos are so reliable why not this one... She is 'Gora' as well... :
> 
> https://www.organiser.org/Encyc/201...l---Italian-journalist-s-huge-revelation.html
> 
> After the strike, several opposition parties including the Congress have been questioning the veracity of the strikes. Meanwhile, Italian journalist Francesca Marino has made a shocking revelation and surprised the world by publishing the complete details of the air strikes in StringerAsia (http://www.stringerasia.it), an Italian online magazine. Marino wrote that “Indian Air Force attacked at 3:30 in the morning and according to my information, Pakistani army unit from Shinkiari base camp arrived at the location of the strike around 6 am”. Marino further writes, “Many injured were brought to the Pakistan Army Hospital. According to local sources, 45 people are still being treated in the Army camp hospital. 20 people have died during the treatment.”



A journalist who has not been in Pakistan to report on a story is selling hogwash.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chanakyaa

GriffinsRule said:


> A journalist who has not been in Pakistan to report on a story is selling hogwash.



I referred to a member of this forum.


----------



## TheTallGuy

@XiNiX

I was wondering have you researched about Orbat of IAF on 27th Feb 19. let have mutually constructive discussion.

i request you to provide how many IAF fighters were in Air when Raid developed, how many were scrambled from which bases preferably quantity wise.

lets have a discussion please

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Trailer23

This should be good...


----------



## Chanakyaa

TheTallGuy said:


> @XiNiX
> 
> I was wondering have you researched about Orbat of IAF on 27th Feb 19. let have mutually constructive discussion.
> 
> i request you to provide how many IAF fighters were in Air when Raid developed, how many were scrambled from which bases preferably quantity wise.
> 
> lets have a discussion please



Thank you for the Interest.

I will have to check the official numbers. It was a Mix of Mirages / 11s and MKI.
But this is very close to what I feel ( I don't ( yet ) accept the F16 being downed ) :

https://www.orfonline.org/research/...nd-balakot-a-practitioners-perspective-50761/

The Most Important Conclusions ( which infact ridicule IAF ) are notable.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTallGuy

Trailer23 said:


> This should be good...



i see


XiNiX said:


> Thank you for the Interest.
> 
> I will have to check the official numbers. It was a Mix of Mirages / 11s and MKI.
> But this is very close to what I feel ( I don't ( yet ) accept the F16 being downed ) :
> 
> https://www.orfonline.org/research/...nd-balakot-a-practitioners-perspective-50761/
> 
> The Most Important Conclusions ( which infact ridicule IAF ) are notable.




"two Mirage-2000s, two Sukhoi-30 MKIs and four MiG-21 Bisons " i was able collect following detail from article. The learned Author has not defined specifics for CAP and scramblers?

From Crumbs of info from Pakistani Side they were additional 2 x Su-30MKI scrambled from Avantipura FOB.

MiG-21BISON surely be scramblers, So pair of Mirage 2000i and pair of Su-30MKI were on CAP.

Am i Correct in this?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Chanakyaa

TheTallGuy said:


> i see
> 
> 
> 
> "two Mirage-2000s, two Sukhoi-30 MKIs and four MiG-21 Bisons " i was able collect following detail from article. The learned Author has not defined specifics for CAP and scramblers?
> 
> From Crumbs of info from Pakistani Side they were additional 2 x Su-30MKI scrambled from Avantipura FOB.
> 
> MiG-21BISON surely be scramblers, So pair of Mirage 2000i and pair of Su-30MKI were on CAP.
> 
> Am i Correct in this?



Yes. I think that would be acceptable.


----------



## Thorough Pro

You know how stupid you sound when you airforce boasted of an Indian SU30 dodging 5 AAMRAMs? If no SU30 operated that day near LOC, where did he dodge the AAMRAM's?

You know why they say "lies have no feet"? As a lying nation, decide which lie you want to stick with, you can't go blaming "Pakistan raped us and at the same time claiming we are still virgin" stick to one lie.




Suriya said:


> 2. Also what is true , that day *No Su30* operated violated LOC or *operated near the LOC* . And You know they don't have to .

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TheTallGuy

XiNiX said:


> Yes. I think that would be acceptable.



Any CAP operating in IOK will be using geographical positions to support there position. like pir Panjal Range..if i assume it correctly a Pair of Mirage 2000i and pair Sukhoi Su-30MKI low high mix.
Su-30MKI about 30-35k (because of There radar Capacity and longer range of AAMs) and Mirage 2000i at medium 20-25K (because of Radar and range of MICA)

what i am trying to understand that these 4 aircraft would have engaged PAF strike package or top cover within 10sec.

Yet the scrambler is shot down. as per IAF version it would have take atleast if 6-7mins after scramble to reach rajouri. that is a real good scrambling time of ORP. i might add! what was happening to Mirage 2000i and Su-30MKI which would have engaged incoming forces 1st. did they engage? if they did ..did they fire any missiles. mind you with distance=time x speed formula its a very very small space from Pir Panjal to Rajouri under 100km you should understand what will be flying time in combat speed.

Can you give your views on that?

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
9


----------



## loanranger

Guys I did some research and found out that all Aim120 Cs have a self destruct function on them.....factor this into disscussions from now on as everyone on PDF prior to this assumed that our missile was produced from the exhaust of the Su30 might still be the case but from now on exploded amraam doesnot equal hit.
Thanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SQ8

NA71 said:


> It was live news bulletin...you say doctored. Yes after 27/2 mostly Indian news are being doctored
> 
> 
> simple ...try same trolling and ranting in Indian forum they first give you a response full of abusive language ...dragging Islam, terrorism, Economy, Jihadis etc and finally expel you out. Atleast, we are more decent.


They are just mostly pathetic people.
But again, their online filth doesn’t represent most of them.
Just our online cadre had less of the filth that theirs has



XiNiX said:


> Well, You do realize that it matter of a click to ban all the IP ranges of India. Please reserve your respectable words for your forum owners who "pretend" to hate Indian/Indians but do absolutely nothing .. just for some Adsense revenue.


You guys logon, we don’t mind your adsense money.

Your choice to visit.. your choice to login.
We welcome all who aren’t here to troll

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Ghost 125

Dear Pakistanis, it is painful to see that for the previous 45 pages of this thread you people are arguing with a single indian troll. plz dont feed the troll, let him say what he wants to say dont respond to him. Either mods should ban this troll or we should just ignore him.(becoz thats what he is. Evident from all his posts, he is here just to propagate his narrative and counter yours. he is not a man of reason)

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## alphibeti

M.Musa said:


> Its also to give India space and a way to save face. We have our reasons not to corner them to such an extend. However, we know, they know, and that's all that matters.
> That other side has become a joke. IAF reputation has declined and the media has already acted like a circus.


Guys, no need to give justifications to these coward Indians. Yes, we kicked Indian @ss and busted the sh!t out of it on 27/2 to tell Modi how he will be punished in broad daylight for a cowardly aggression in the dark of night. Yes, we are alert and ready to smash Indian @ss yet once again if they exhibit their stupidity once more and it's gonna be more sever beating to them this time around.



TheTallGuy said:


> i see
> 
> 
> 
> "two Mirage-2000s, two Sukhoi-30 MKIs and four MiG-21 Bisons " i was able collect following detail from article. The learned Author has not defined specifics for CAP and scramblers?
> 
> From Crumbs of info from Pakistani Side they were additional 2 x Su-30MKI scrambled from Avantipura FOB.
> 
> MiG-21BISON surely be scramblers, So pair of Mirage 2000i and pair of Su-30MKI were on CAP.
> 
> Am i Correct in this?


Bro, I like the way you put your point forward and your quest for reality of 27/2 events. I followed the link and read that article. But TBH, I couldn't find anything new other than the same lies and crap Indians been repeating day in day out without offering an iota of evidence. I am impressed by your positive manner and the fact that you are still able to find a couple of things from that article for the sake of moving the discussion forward aimed at uncovering the Indian lies (I hope). Anyhow, good job bro.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mig hunter

Mace said:


> Disagree - There is no proof of India losing a frontline aircraft. Chacha Ghafoor has not shared any convincing fact.


I would have appreciated if you would have replied like gentleman but this chacha thing makes you sound like a retard or full of hatred... 
U take Gen ghafoor words as without proof and don't accept thrm but u claim downing of an F16 and dodging of 5 AMRAAM with out the proof
Here are few things that u missed
1. There is a short clip where an anchor on India today utter the exact words that, reports are coming that an Indian su 30 has been shot down but then it was vanished,
2. After 28th India went totally on defensive, no country goes on defensive if it had lost a mig 21 against F 16. Especially when you are aggressor
2. It's nothing to do with hostile population, it's about job of intelligence for collection of evidence. Secondly remember your so called missile strike, it was with Pakistan with exact tgt loc and missile which she share with the world and told them that these strikes will be reciprocated in same fashion. It kills ur hostile population narrative
3. I think political gains never surpass national security, didn't India violated air space for sake of national security
4. Rafael matter is not above the national prestige, every body exactly know what will happen if u give such a statement at that moment of cisis
5. Even if by ur logic that u threatened Pakistan with missile strike, what was the need when u have downed an F16 with mig 21, it was share desperation or a big loss that was forcing India for such a big step
6. F 21 is not an issue coz we are not talking about LM but USA where Pak has so many enemies any body can leak F 16 wreckage. More over money can buy any thing and India has a lot and she would have spent any amount to have that info public
7. As for as ISPR doing better propaganda is concerned it was because there were plenty of proof and India had none
7.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## alphibeti

Thorough Pro said:


> You know how stupid you sound when you airforce boasted of an Indian SU30 dodging 5 AAMRAMs? If no SU30 operated that day near LOC, where did he dodge the AAMRAM's?
> 
> You know why they say "lies have no feet"? As a lying nation, decide which lie you want to stick with, you can't go blaming "Pakistan raped us and at the same time claiming we are still virgin" stick to one lie.


Never mind bro. These Indians are running around with their non-sense to say any thing that fits in a situation at hand without caring the heck they are contradicting with what they have said a moment ago. They are running around aimlessly like mad dogs just like their fighter planes were running around aimlessly in panic mode while getting a sever beat up on the fresh morning of 27/2 at the hands of PAF.



Mace said:


> 1. Agreed. India crossed a red line.
> 
> 2. Disagree - There is no proof of India losing a frontline aircraft. Chacha Ghafoor has not shared any convincing fact.
> .


The question is what mama Modi says about all that?


----------



## Ultima Thule

airomerix said:


> I sometimes do not get this guy. He takes PDF ranks way too seriously.


And those senior/professional members do have the direct/indirect links to Pakistan armed forces and you don't have these links @airomerix


TsAr said:


> Some members prefer to live in la la Land, he is one of those


 i believes in authentic news, do you have direct/indirect links to Pakistan armed forces, those senior/Professional members have direct/indirect links to Pakistan armed forces @TsAr


Mace said:


> There is no need to knock down an excellent upgraded F21 out of contention just because an F16 was presumably lost.


And how on earth 2/2.5 gen interceptor can bring Modern 4.5th gen F-16D,your MIg-21 Bison has its design limitations no matter how you upgrades it, it has a limited radar coverage (small diameter radar air intake nosecone) which can't guide BVR, We have better radars/BVR on our F-16D (AMRAAM-C5/ APG-69 V9 with a range of 300 KM), has limited agility/maneuverability, at best Mig-21 Bison can agile/maneuverable at 5 Gs, whereas F-16 can agile/maneuverable at 9 Gs, we have more Chance to shot down MIG-21 rather than your Mighty 10 gen MIG-21 had have shot down our 4.5th gen F-16D, use your brain if you have @Mace


----------



## airomerix

pakistanipower said:


> And those senior/professional members do have the direct/indirect links to Pakistan armed forces and you don't have these links @airomerix
> 
> i believes in authentic news, do you have direct/indirect links to Pakistan armed forces, those senior/Professional members have direct/indirect links to Pakistan armed forces @TsAr
> @Mace



Are you for real?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Myth_buster_1

pakistanipower said:


> And those senior/professional members do have the direct/indirect links to Pakistan armed forces and you don't have these links @airomerix
> 
> i believes in authentic news, do you have direct/indirect links to Pakistan armed forces, those senior/Professional members have direct/indirect links to Pakistan armed forces @TsAr
> 
> And how on earth 2/2.5 gen interceptor can bring Modern 4.5th gen F-16D,your MIg-21 Bison has its design limitations no matter how you upgrades it, it has a limited radar coverage (small diameter radar air intake nosecone) which can't guide BVR, We have better radars/BVR on our F-16D (AMRAAM-C5/ APG-69 V9 with a range of 300 KM), has limited agility/maneuverability, at best Mig-21 Bison can agile/maneuverable at 5 Gs, whereas F-16 can agile/maneuverable at 9 Gs, we have more Chance to shot down MIG-21 rather than your Mighty 10 gen MIG-21 had have shot down our 4.5th gen F-16D, use your brain if you have @Mace




Mind you Mig-21 Bison with Isreali radar and sensors is a serious threat. The only problem is, the pilots who fly them SUCK!
If PAF had Mig-21 bison with same configurations, they would do WONDERS with it. 
With HMDS and R-73, and R-77 equipped will pose a GREAT threat to any 4th gen fighter!


----------



## Ultima Thule

airomerix said:


> Are you for real?


sorry i dont understand you sir @airomerix , i am talking the facts about senior/professional members, most of them have direct/indirect links to Pakistan armed forces, do you have any links to Pakistan armed forces @airomerix



Myth_buster_1 said:


> Mind you Mig-21 Bison with Isreali radar and sensors is a serious threat. The only problem is, the pilots who fly them SUCK!
> If PAF had Mig-21 bison with same configurations, they would do WONDERS with it.
> With HMDS and R-73, and R-77 equipped will pose a GREAT threat to any 4th gen fighter!


Can't fire BVR limited radar coverage, we have similar upgrades (F-7PG) Grifo-7 radar with a range of only 55 Km , or in with certain condition (small diameter air intake radome) (with exception of HMD) to their MIG-21 Bison @Myth_buster_1


----------



## airomerix

pakistanipower said:


> sorry i dont understand you sir @airomerix , i am talking the facts about senior/professional members, most of them have direct/indirect links to Pakistan armed forces, do you have any links to Pakistan armed forces @airomerix



Nope I dont.

I'm posted as a chowkidar at Thana tehsil nagar.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Myth_buster_1

pakistanipower said:


> sorry i dont understand you sir @airomerix , i am talking the facts about senior/professional members, most of them have direct/indirect links to Pakistan armed forces, do you have any links to Pakistan armed forces @airomerix
> 
> 
> Can't fire BVR limited radar coverage, we have similar upgrades (F-7PG) Grifo-7 radar with a range of only 55 Km , or in with certain condition (small diameter air intake radome) (with exception of HMD) to their MIG-21 Bison @Myth_buster_1



hi listen man, its for your own knowledge.

It all depends how you employ your weapon in war situation because your max range max speed etc may not matter in some situations. 
An upgraded Mig-21 has smaller RCS and can easily sneak up behind you with use of *terrain* like that of Kashmir. How else do you think Mirages were able to deep strike enemy territory? They stayed low to the terrain avoiding radar and SAM detection and when they were pick up by radar, their mission was already over and were hurling back home at mach 2!

Had it been plain flat terrain like dessert, things may have been different and both sides would stay away from being flat out visible to radars. 

PAF F-7PG are a joke in todays airwarfare. Its like taking a kitchen knife to a gun fight.


----------



## Ultima Thule

airomerix said:


> Nope I dont.
> 
> I'm posted as a chowkidar at Thana tehsil nagar.


 are you doing sarcasm ?? i am asking dead serious question to you sir @airomerix



Myth_buster_1 said:


> hi listen man, its for your own knowledge.
> 
> It all depends how you employ your weapon in war situation because your max range max speed etc may not matter in some situations.
> An upgraded Mig-21 has smaller RCS and can easily sneak up behind you with use of *terrain* like that of Kashmir. How else do you think Mirages were able to deep strike enemy territory? They stayed low to the terrain avoiding radar and SAM detection and when they were pick up by radar, their mission was already over and were hurling back home at mach 2!
> 
> Had it been plain flat terrain like dessert, things may have been different and both sides would stay away from being flat out visible to radars.
> 
> PAF F-7PG are a joke in todays airwarfare. Its like taking a kitchen knife to a gun fight.


And we don don't have multiple radar coverage on 27 FEB, AWACS/Ground based radars/ other fighter jets to cover whole spectrum of battlefield @Myth_buster_1 

So same goes to their MIG-21 Bison, only exception is Israeli ECM on their MIG-21, you can't increases the diameter of air intake radome to fit bigger radar to increase Mig-21 radar range @Myth_buster_1


----------



## TheTallGuy

Gentleman, 
Lets use our collective wisdom. please ask @Tps43 he has seen some things..at least 1 x F-16, 2 x JF17 locking up 5 IAF Bandits (i say bandits as i am not quite sure how many were Su-30MKIs were in the mix at that moment) yes 5 IAF Bandits. 

I am now pretty sure that PAF scored 8 x Kills and of number of Pilots we had in our custody they were 4 yes 4 (1 x Abhi returned -Alive, 1 x Sikh returned-Dead, 2 x IDF/AF Exchange pilots (in custody both alive one was injured in ejection) they were also part Strike Package on 26th Feb and recovered at Srinagar AFB these were same pilots providing CAP in Mirage 2000i with MICA up-north. 

I do understand the rigid nature of this forum but yes this forum not obliged under any secret information act and i am no military man! just a pathetic salesman and if i can gather enough information that will be as per time came truth we can do it collectively as well and yes they are inconsistency in DG ISPR statements ...but ever thought why in his correction he wrote "only 1 x Indian Pilot in our custody" why mention nationality..it is odd! 

I believe some time things are communicated between the lines and due to this and Pakistani threat of missile strike on both fronts ever think about that within a night THAAD emplacement/activation in Israel done by US. 

Lot of things happened in 3 Day war. what i hate is our posture is making enemies stronger in there believe that they can get away with it. The new Norm is set already and we are the ones waiting and suffering i might add.

Some victories are turned into defeats more you prolong more your narrative erodes.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## airomerix

TheTallGuy said:


> Gentleman,
> Lets use our collective wisdom. please ask @Tps43 he has seen some things..at least 1 x F-16, 2 x JF17 locking up 5 IAF Bandits (i say bandits as i am not quite sure how many were Su-30MKIs were in the mix at that moment) yes 5 IAF Bandits.
> 
> I am now pretty sure that PAF scored 8 x Kills and of number of Pilots we had in our custody they were 4 yes 4 (1 x Abhi returned -Alive, 1 x Sikh returned-Dead, *2 x IDF/AF Exchange pilots (in custody both alive one was injured in ejection) they were also part Strike Package on 26th Feb and recovered at Srinagar AFB these were same pilots providing CAP in Mirage 2000i with MICA up-north. *
> 
> I do understand the rigid nature of this forum but yes this forum not obliged under any secret information act and i am no military man! just a pathetic salesman and if i can gather enough information that will be as per time came truth we can do it collectively as well and yes they are inconsistency in DG ISPR statements ...but ever thought why in his correction he wrote "only 1 x Indian Pilot in our custody" why mention nationality..it is odd!
> 
> I believe some time things are communicated between the lines and due to this and Pakistani threat of missile strike on both fronts ever think about that within a night THAAD emplacement/activation in Israel done by US.
> 
> Lot of things happened in 3 Day war. what i hate is our posture is making enemies stronger in there believe that they can get away with it. The new Norm is set already and we are the ones waiting and suffering i might add.
> 
> Some victories are turned into defeats more you prolong more your narrative erodes.



The red part is very ridiculous. Israeli's are not idiots to send their man power to accompany IAF pilots. The entire world is aware of IAF training standards and trust me they are notorious.

This IDF theory is just a rumour which was spread by people who tend to pin every wrong doing in this bloody country on yahudi's. Nothing more.

The rest of your post is more of a wishful thinking. Not true at all.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Armchair

Myth_buster_1 said:


> PAF F-7PG are a joke in todays airwarfare. Its like taking a kitchen knife to a gun fight.



I hear they have their utility. And a possible BVR even.


----------



## airomerix

F-7s are tough nut to crack in a dog fight. There is a reason why they simulate as aggressors at CCS.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Ultima Thule

Armchair said:


> I hear they have their utility. And a possible BVR even.


Can't fire BVR because of Radar, Grifo-7 has a range of only 55 KM @Armchair


----------



## TheTallGuy

airomerix said:


> The red part is very ridiculous. Israeli's are not idiots to send their man power to accompany IAF pilots. The entire world is aware of IAF training standards and trust me they are notorious.
> 
> This IDF theory is just a rumour which was spread by people who tend to pin every wrong doing in this bloody country on yahudi's. Nothing more.
> 
> The rest of your post is more of a wishful thinking. Not true at all.



thank you for reply..time will tell! we can agree to disagree


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> thank you for reply..time will tell! we can agree to disagree


Most tall claims of your are just mere speculations, Especially your 8 IAF jet claims @TheTallGuy


----------



## TheTallGuy

pakistanipower said:


> Most tall claims of your are just mere speculations, Especially your 8 IAF jet claims



I am 6`7'' i am tall!

as i remember 2-3 days back you were quite sure that there was no Mirage 2000i in 27th Feb 19 battle for that was a speculation at that time now you have multiple sources verifying that there were indeed pair of Mirage 2000i on CAP.

That is why ACM sahib, i respectfully agree to disagree Pandora box will open and then you will remember pathetic handle name tall-guy who use to respectfully ask help to fill in the blanks. keep harping about!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> I am 6`7'' i am tall!
> 
> as i remember 2-3 days back you were quite sure that there was no Mirage 2000i in 27th Feb 19 battle for that was a speculation at that time now you have multiple sources verifying that there were indeed pair of Mirage 2000i on CAP.
> 
> That is why ACM sahib, i respectfully agree to disagree Pandora box will open and then you will remember pathetic handle name tall-guy who use to respectfully ask help to fill in the blanks. keep harping about!


Mirage-2000 Cap on LOC didn't means it had been shot down, you're spreading your TALL/false speculations/assertions without a single proof @TheTallGuy


----------



## Mace

pakistanipower said:


> And how on earth 2/2.5 gen interceptor can bring Modern 4.5th gen F-16D,your MIg-21 Bison has its design limitations no matter how you upgrades it, it has a limited radar coverage (small diameter radar air intake nosecone) which can't guide BVR, We have better radars/BVR on our F-16D (AMRAAM-C5/ APG-69 V9 with a range of 300 KM), has limited agility/maneuverability, at best Mig-21 Bison can agile/maneuverable at 5 Gs, whereas F-16 can agile/maneuverable at 9 Gs, we have more Chance to shot down MIG-21 rather than your Mighty 10 gen MIG-21 had have shot down our 4.5th gen F-16D, use your brain if you have @Mace



In the real world your adversaries don’t play to your rules @pakistanipower.

Hypothetically 
- Mig21 pilot employed better tactics than F16 pilot
- Maybe F16 pilot made a mistake. People make mistakes @pakistanipower


----------



## Ultima Thule

Mace said:


> In the real world your adversaries don’t play to your rules @pakistanipower.
> 
> Hypothetically
> - Mig21 pilot employed better tactics than F16 pilot
> - Maybe F16 pilot made a mistake. People make mistakes @pakistanipower


Technically impossible to achieve, and what tactics against your mighty raptor of the east MKI, and yes people do mistake but not in networked airspace/situation awareness AWACS/graound radars, SAMs radars,Jammers @Mace and pentagon already confirmed no PAF F-16 is missing, i already provide my proved to you @Mace 



Mace said:


> In the real world your adversaries don’t play to your rules @pakistanipower.
> 
> Hypothetically
> - Mig21 pilot employed better tactics than F16 pilot
> - Maybe F16 pilot made a mistake. People make mistakes @pakistanipower


You're most stubborn & illiterate poster here, to insist your crap again and again without single solid proof @Mace

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Falcon26

Mace said:


> In the real world your adversaries don’t play to your rules @pakistanipower.
> 
> Hypothetically
> - Mig21 pilot employed better tactics than F16 pilot
> - Maybe F16 pilot made a mistake. People make mistakes @pakistanipower



If wishes were horses, Indians would fly. 

It will take a miracle for IAF to shoot down a PAF F-16. You have better chances of winning the lottery. Stop this globally debunked nonsense that an F-16 was shot down. It didn’t happen. Won’t happen. Get real!

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Mig hunter

P


Mace said:


> In the real world your adversaries don’t play to your rules @pakistanipower.
> 
> Hypothetically
> - Mig21 pilot employed better tactics than F16 pilot
> - Maybe F16 pilot made a mistake. People make mistakes @pakistanipower


Pleas keep living in hypothetical world.. You also concluded hypothetically that Pakistan will not retaliate after Ur strike but you know better what happened which u people are still trying to cover up hypothetically..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Oruc

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Indiot if you have balls please answer after this
> 
> 2 R-77 recovered
> 1 R-73 with serial number recovered (can be traced back to IAF inventory)
> 1 R-73 with exploded war head had its tail section stuck to pylon which itself was attached with the aircraft
> 
> so then how the puck did AbhiNoneDone shoot down anything? He is still quite about it while Indian cyber warriors are claiming victory.


Maybe through his charm...

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Blueskiez 2001

TheTallGuy said:


> Gentleman,
> Lets use our collective wisdom. please ask @Tps43 he has seen some things..at least 1 x F-16, 2 x JF17 locking up 5 IAF Bandits (i say bandits as i am not quite sure how many were Su-30MKIs were in the mix at that moment) yes 5 IAF Bandits.
> 
> I am now pretty sure that PAF scored 8 x Kills and of number of Pilots we had in our custody they were 4 yes 4 (1 x Abhi returned -Alive, 1 x Sikh returned-Dead, 2 x IDF/AF Exchange pilots (in custody both alive one was injured in ejection) they were also part Strike Package on 26th Feb and recovered at Srinagar AFB these were same pilots providing CAP in Mirage 2000i with MICA up-north.
> 
> I do understand the rigid nature of this forum but yes this forum not obliged under any secret information act and i am no military man! just a pathetic salesman and if i can gather enough information that will be as per time came truth we can do it collectively as well and yes they are inconsistency in DG ISPR statements ...but ever thought why in his correction he wrote "only 1 x Indian Pilot in our custody" why mention nationality..it is odd!
> 
> I believe some time things are communicated between the lines and due to this and Pakistani threat of missile strike on both fronts ever think about that within a night THAAD emplacement/activation in Israel done by US.
> 
> Lot of things happened in 3 Day war. what i hate is our posture is making enemies stronger in there believe that they can get away with it. The new Norm is set already and we are the ones waiting and suffering i might add.
> 
> Some victories are turned into defeats more you prolong more your narrative erodes.



Heey Tallguy

You have been very persistent and consistent in your posts about 8 kills by PAF.

Hats of for that -BUT i think i asked you earlier about where the wreckage's are....

Because Indian establishment maybe able to hide one but to hide SEVEN wreckage´s....???

Where are they....?? You may argue that they have been able to hide the loss of at least one SU-30 then why not 7....

NO one in the PAF nor in the pakistan military establishment have released anything that could verify your claim.

In my experience it is very difficult to hide things like what you have written - hide 7 aircraft down... its not a joke. ....

So where are the wreckage´s....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SIPRA

Blueskiez 2001 said:


> Heey Tallguy
> 
> You have been very persistent and consistent in your posts about 8 kills by PAF.
> 
> Hats of for that -BUT i think i asked you earlier about where the wreckage's are....
> 
> Because Indian establishment maybe able to hide one but to hide SEVEN wreckage´s....???
> 
> Where are they....?? You may argue that they have been able to hide the loss of at least one SU-30 then why not 7....
> 
> NO one in the PAF nor in the pakistan military establishment have released anything that could verify your claim.
> 
> In my experience it is very difficult to hide things like what you have written - hide 7 aircraft down... its not a joke. ....
> 
> So where are the wreckage´s....



He is not the only one. There is also an Indian Muslim poster @AfrazulMandal whose claims are similar. He refers to some link in IAF. But, these claims are unbelievable and apparently without any foundation.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## AfrazulMandal

Continued Pakistani inaction will cost you.

If you had invaded then, you would have reached Delhi in around 96 hours.

Now your chances are diminishing.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Blueskiez 2001 said:


> Heey Tallguy
> 
> You have been very persistent and consistent in your posts about 8 kills by PAF.
> 
> Hats of for that -BUT i think i asked you earlier about where the wreckage's are....
> 
> Because Indian establishment maybe able to hide one but to hide SEVEN wreckage´s....???
> 
> Where are they....?? You may argue that they have been able to hide the loss of at least one SU-30 then why not 7....
> 
> NO one in the PAF nor in the pakistan military establishment have released anything that could verify your claim.
> 
> In my experience it is very difficult to hide things like what you have written - hide 7 aircraft down... its not a joke. ....
> 
> So where are the wreckage´s....




their is a possibility they were all engaged in high altitude and pulverized before hitting the ground?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Armchair

TheTallGuy said:


> Gentleman,
> Lets use our collective wisdom. please ask @Tps43 he has seen some things..at least 1 x F-16, 2 x JF17 locking up 5 IAF Bandits (i say bandits as i am not quite sure how many were Su-30MKIs were in the mix at that moment) yes 5 IAF Bandits.
> 
> I am now pretty sure that PAF scored 8 x Kills and of number of Pilots we had in our custody they were 4 yes 4 (1 x Abhi returned -Alive, 1 x Sikh returned-Dead, 2 x IDF/AF Exchange pilots (in custody both alive one was injured in ejection) they were also part Strike Package on 26th Feb and recovered at Srinagar AFB these were same pilots providing CAP in Mirage 2000i with MICA up-north.
> 
> I do understand the rigid nature of this forum but yes this forum not obliged under any secret information act and i am no military man! just a pathetic salesman and if i can gather enough information that will be as per time came truth we can do it collectively as well and yes they are inconsistency in DG ISPR statements ...but ever thought why in his correction he wrote "only 1 x Indian Pilot in our custody" why mention nationality..it is odd!
> 
> I believe some time things are communicated between the lines and due to this and Pakistani threat of missile strike on both fronts ever think about that within a night THAAD emplacement/activation in Israel done by US.
> 
> Lot of things happened in 3 Day war. what i hate is our posture is making enemies stronger in there believe that they can get away with it. The new Norm is set already and we are the ones waiting and suffering i might add.
> 
> Some victories are turned into defeats more you prolong more your narrative erodes.



Hi Tall Guy, I'm a rather short fellow but I've tried to follow your posts for sometime now. It is clear you have some insider information. I really want to believe you, and would really appreciate if you could help me figure out why you are saying what you are saying. 

Is it from some secret source?
Is it your deductive reasoning? (If this is the case, perhaps you can explain it better so we all understand)

I want to note that @messiach during this period did point her fingers at Israel, as well as some serious posters. I was surprised why, and later it seemed that the "ones in the know" in the forum did concur there was something that happend regarding Israel. 

Now, there was also some rumor from good sources in this forum that at least one Israeli was captured, dead or alive. So, I think you are on to something that is very sensitive for the stupid establishment that is keeping all this secret. 

Its like we cannot win even when we win. Our a__ holes will make sure our victory is kept "secret" for "sensitive reasons". These Uncle Toms are either plain stupid, suffer from severe brown sahib syndrome, or are actually our enemies within, something messiach touched upon so many times. 

By the way, I don't think you are just a car salesman in Africa. Did you come up with that from Mastan Khan's attempts to pretend the same? You are very likely ex-PAF and know a thing or two. There was a famous PAF officer who was 6 foot 7... if I remember, one with a big beard...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ultima Thule

And how it possible you (india) F-16 is far far more advance than Mig-21, Especially F-16D, instead of convince me with logic/commonsense, you (India) always fails to convince any country that India shot down with crap theories/baseless speculations, @waz @The Eagle @Horus please control this baseless troll named @Mace thanks


Mace said:


> Relax you dimwit. I was just answering @pakistanipower who believes mig21 can’t bring down a f16.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTallGuy

Armchair said:


> Is it from some secret source?
> Is it your deductive reasoning? (If this is the case, perhaps you can explain it better so we all understand)



Its every humans right given by God to reason. cant you see holes in both Indian and Pakistani Narrative of 3 day war. what proof you want wreckage Indians have them i said earlier whole division was searching/scampering IOK from rajouri kill box till pir panjal for 2-3 days all lines of communication cut for IOK population as i said they were not searching for yetis, right. is it easy to bring AIM-120C-5 piece. some say since that su-30mki had fallen in cantonment area its was still easy for them.



Armchair said:


> By the way, I don't think you are just a car salesman in Africa. Did you come up with that from Mastan Khan's attempts to pretend the same? You are very likely ex-PAF and know a thing or two. There was a famous PAF officer who was 6 foot 7... if I remember, one with a big beard..



No No..I am salesman and sell cars in africa. i had actually no idea MK sells them too before joining this forum. i do keep beard. 

I am no airforce man nor i have the military background thus i am open not bounded by what to say or not say! Free! 



AfrazulMandal said:


> Continued Pakistani inaction will cost you.
> 
> If you had invaded then, you would have reached Delhi in around 96 hours.
> 
> Now your chances are diminishing.



True it is costing us. By the way i didnt had a chance to read your input care to share.



RIWWIR said:


> He is not the only one. There is also an Indian Muslim poster @AfrazulMandal whose claims are similar. He refers to some link in IAF. But, these claims are unbelievable and apparently without any foundation.



i do have requested the person to at least share what he has to say about it.

@Mace 
If IAF had claimed a Mirage instead of F-16s it would be far harder for PAF justify no loss. why o why F-16 why not a mirage 2 seater...when PAF can be happy with MiG why cant IAF be happy with Mirage. unless you know what i am going say...

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Armchair

TheTallGuy said:


> Its every humans right given by God to reason. cant you see holes in both Indian and Pakistani Narrative of 3 day war. what proof you want wreckage Indians have them i said earlier whole division was searching/scampering IOK from rajouri kill box till pir panjal for 2-3 days all lines of communication cut for IOK population as i said they were not searching for yetis, right. is it easy to bring AIM-120C-5 piece. some say since that su-30mki had fallen in cantonment area its was still easy for them.
> 
> 
> 
> No No..I am salesman and sell cars in africa. i had actually no idea MK sells them too before joining this forum. i do keep beard.
> 
> I am no airforce man nor i have the military background thus i am open not bounded by what to say or not say! Free!
> 
> 
> 
> True it is costing us. By the way i didnt had a chance to read your input care to share.
> 
> 
> 
> i do have requested the person to at least share what he has to say about it.
> 
> @Mace
> If IAF had claimed a Mirage instead of F-16s it would be far harder for PAF justify no loss. why o why F-16 why not a mirage 2 seater...when PAF can be happy with MiG why cant IAF be happy with Mirage. unless you know what i am going say...



So what are you going to say? 

Here is why I think you are using inside sources - searching for falling parts does not mean that 8 aircraft were shot down. Or 5 or 4. How did you come up with that exact number?



TheTallGuy said:


> Its every humans right given by God to reason. cant you see holes in both Indian and Pakistani Narrative of 3 day war.



I can most certainly see holes in the story. But how do holes in the story convert to a very specific count that you have given? That is what interests me most.

@TheTallGuy Sorry but I am not buying the story that you were always a civilian and never part of the PAF. I've seen how you discuss and the level of technical knowledge you have, you are most obviously ex-PAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Armchair said:


> Hi Tall Guy, I'm a rather short fellow but I've tried to follow your posts for sometime now. It is clear you have some insider information. I really want to believe you, and would really appreciate if you could help me figure out why you are saying what you are saying.
> 
> Is it from some secret source?
> Is it your deductive reasoning? (If this is the case, perhaps you can explain it better so we all understand)
> 
> I want to note that @messiach during this period did point her fingers at Israel, as well as some serious posters. I was surprised why, and later it seemed that the "ones in the know" in the forum did concur there was something that happend regarding Israel.
> 
> Now, there was also some rumor from good sources in this forum that at least one Israeli was captured, dead or alive. So, I think you are on to something that is very sensitive for the stupid establishment that is keeping all this secret.
> 
> Its like we cannot win even when we win. Our a__ holes will make sure our victory is kept "secret" for "sensitive reasons". These Uncle Toms are either plain stupid, suffer from severe brown sahib syndrome, or are actually our enemies within, something messiach touched upon so many times.
> 
> By the way, I don't think you are just a car salesman in Africa. Did you come up with that from Mastan Khan's attempts to pretend the same? You are very likely ex-PAF and know a thing or two. There was a famous PAF officer who was 6 foot 7... if I remember, one with a big beard...


Have to admit - this episode is reaching the suspense level of the Agatha Christie novels!!!! Can’t take it any longer.... 

Carry on _Bon Ami._..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> If IAF had claimed a Mirage instead of F-16s it would be far harder for PAF justify no loss. why o why F-16 why not a mirage 2 seater...when PAF can be happy with MiG why cant IAF be happy with Mirage. unless you know what i am going say...


@TheTallGuy your TALL claims has no proofs and do you have a backup your claims ??? I believes on DGIISPR statements we have only bring down 2 IAF jets, you're spreading false speculations/assertions wit no proof @TheTallGuy


----------



## SIPRA

pakistanipower said:


> @TheTallGuy your TALL claims has no proofs and do you have a backup your claims ??? I believes on DGIISPR statements we have only bring down 2 IAF jets, you're spreading false speculations/assertions wit no proof @TheTallGuy



But he is raising the spirits of some posters.


----------



## Ultima Thule

RIWWIR said:


> But he is raising the spirits of some posters.


what is the valid points @TheTallGuy raised, can you explain @RIWWIR

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SIPRA

pakistanipower said:


> what is the valid points @TheTallGuy raised, can you explain @RIWWIR



No, you have misunderstood me. I said, he is raising the spirits of some enthusiastic posters. I don't think, he has evidence for his claims.


----------



## Ultima Thule

RIWWIR said:


> No, you have misunderstood me. I said, he is raising the spirits of some enthusiastic posters. I don't think, he has evidence for his claims.


that's i am saying for day 1 for @TheTallGuy TALL claims @RIWWIR


----------



## SIPRA

pakistanipower said:


> that's i am saying for day 1 for @TheTallGuy TALL claims @RIWWIR



No need to discourage him. He appears to be a very enthusiastic researcher. May be, something useful come out of it.


----------



## Ultima Thule

RIWWIR said:


> No need to discourage him. He appears to be a very enthusiastic researcher. May be, something useful come out of it.


are you suggesting/agreeing with @TheTallGuy that PAF shot down 8 IAF jets, i don't thinks so @RIWWIR


----------



## SIPRA

pakistanipower said:


> are you suggesting/agreeing with @TheTallGuy that PAF shot down 8 IAF jets, i don't thinks so @RIWWIR



Not at all. I am saying, let him carry on his enthusiastic research. He may dig and come up with some useful result.


----------



## Ultima Thule

RIWWIR said:


> Not at all. I am saying, let him carry on his enthusiastic research. He may dig and come up with some useful result.


ok, then tell me what useful results will he bring, care to elaborate, any guess other than 8 downing of IAF @RIWWIR

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SIPRA

pakistanipower said:


> ok, then tell me what useful results will he bring, care to elaborate, any guess other than 8 downing of IAF @RIWWIR



I am not very sure. Otherwise also he appears to be quite unstoppable. He has had arguments with many posters on different related threads, as far as I recall.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PakShaheen79

where is this interview? Can't wait to get more details.


----------



## airomerix

pakistanipower said:


> @TheTallGuy your TALL claims has no proofs and do you have a backup your claims ??? I believes on DGIISPR statements we have only bring down 2 IAF jets, you're spreading false speculations/assertions wit no proof @TheTallGuy



Show some respect. 

He brings more to the table and discussions then you ever did.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Ultima Thule

airomerix said:


> Show some respect.
> 
> He brings more to the table and discussions then you ever did.


ok no hard feeling but i believes on DGISPR statement, he just spreading just false speculations/assertions with no backup/proof @airomerix

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## araz

khanasifm said:


> F-16 will be difficult to hide as US monitoring and alms system will notify of loss aircraft  LM would know event before anyone else
> Plus US monitoring
> Any way I will leave it that
> 
> End of story move on as I said sooner later everyone would know


Ditto. The fact US officially confirmed Pak 16s intact means no loss. These guys are bringing claims out of their arses. How can a plane fire when we have a statement from the captured pilot saying he was looking for a target to hit when he was shot down. Further 4 mijjiles (pun intended ) were recovered intact from the downed 21. So no basis to their claims of 16 being downed.
A

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NA71

@TheTallGuy claims may be right with missing evidences...i posted in other thread that an officer visiting my work place on that day ...did confirm 5 kills...I remember his face while he was telling the office..."we shot down 5 of their ACs...as news are coming from site" every one including me...Mubarak ....but later...we came down to figure two...one with wreckage proof and other one... yet to be proved.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TheTallGuy

@RIWWIR @pakistanipower 
As your requirement PAF has only one proof - 1 x MiG-21BISON, 1 x PILOT every other thing is mere speculation. case should be closed!

I am not enforcing - i am putting it on the table and requesting proper/subjective discussion on each kill. i am speculating or not any body serious enough to follow the events will know IAF decimation had happened.
8 x Kills = 3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000i and 3 x MiG-21BISON. 

By the way better get ready for next round! Nazi Modi scale-able project has started with killing of Zakir Musa - now in reaction anything can happen - it will be blamed on Pakistan - They have recently tested air launch brahmos A. get ready

This happens when you give safe passage - should have opened in start waiting has made them think they can do it again they can take the financial pressure. but we cant! 

@MastanKhan 
I have an opportunity to give you answer on why 2 x Type 209 and 1 x Scorpion submarines were let go! in 3 day war.

Both of the sub types including Kilo class are equipped with rescue bouy. when there is emergency and possible sinking Sub captain can release it ...submarine dies but rescue bouy transmit the exact location of sinking. it was not possible to sunk them and everything would remain quiet. those who follow INS Kalveri (Scorpions are on adhoc basis armed with SUT Torps)

@Armchair 
Again, I am no Fauji please dont you see in my writing i am not able to use military abbreviations like f-pole or something like that actually had no idea... so me not what you are assuming!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## MastanKhan

TheTallGuy said:


> @RIWWIR @pakistanipower
> As your requirement PAF has only one proof - 1 x MiG-21BISON, 1 x PILOT every other thing is mere speculation. case should be closed!
> 
> @MastanKhan
> I have an opportunity to give you answer on why 2 x Type 209 and 1 x Scorpion submarines were let go! in 3 day war.
> 
> Both of the sub types including Kilo class are equipped with rescue bouy. when there is emergency and possible sinking Sub captain can release it ...submarine dies but rescue bouy transmit the exact location of sinking. it was not possible to sunk them and everything would remain quiet. those who follow INS Kalveri (Scorpions are on adhoc basis armed with SUT Torps)
> !



Hi,

All modern subs have that ability---.

Now as for the mig21 and su30 being shot down---.

The JF17 buyers would ask for proof---before making a decision---.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTallGuy

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> All modern subs have that ability---.
> 
> Now as for the mig21 and su30 being shot down---.
> 
> The JF17 buyers would ask for proof---before making a decision---.



Forget about exporting one should have enough for own safety first..as thing are going Allah Help Us!



MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> All modern subs have that ability---.



then why were you bitching about sinking the sub?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTallGuy

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I very much doubt that you have the intellect to understand what I wrote---.
> 
> Paf is very much into selling the JF17---that is why it is marketing it to many a nations.
> 
> Your comment have crossed over in to the realm of stupidity---.
> 
> Please divert your attention elsewhere---. Subs are not let go because they have beacons---.


 
Mastan Sb, i think you had the equipment to detect sarcasm  haste can do funny things!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Flight of falcon

Please read this article written by an Indian Retd. Aviator..... he is raising some very valid questions..... would Indians care to answer please. He is correct that the helicopter story came out just before election results release so within a week everyone will forget about this incident .
Indian forces are turning out to be extremely unprofessional and rightly being called Modi’s army/airforce/navy.

https://www.thecitizen.in/index.php/en/NewsDetail/index/4/16975/Balakot-and-After-The-Big-Cover-Up-

Here is more details of the above incident. Question to ask what in the hell helicopter was doing in that area? Rescuing someone? 

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/bu...ace-stringent-action/articleshow/69432787.cms

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Evora

Mirage 2000

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Deino

Evora said:


> Mirage 2000



Nope ... clearly a MiG-21


----------



## Ghost 125

Evora said:


> View attachment 561594
> Mirage 2000


whatever aircraft this is , it has nothing to do with 27 Feb. look at the dark skinned people in the background, and their dressing, its not kashmir.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Armchair

TheTallGuy said:


> @RIWWIR @pakistanipower
> As your requirement PAF has only one proof - 1 x MiG-21BISON, 1 x PILOT every other thing is mere speculation. case should be closed!
> 
> I am not enforcing - i am putting it on the table and requesting proper/subjective discussion on each kill. i am speculating or not any body serious enough to follow the events will know IAF decimation had happened.
> 8 x Kills = 3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000i and 3 x MiG-21BISON.
> 
> By the way better get ready for next round! Nazi Modi scale-able project has started with killing of Zakir Musa - now in reaction anything can happen - it will be blamed on Pakistan - They have recently tested air launch brahmos A. get ready
> 
> This happens when you give safe passage - should have opened in start waiting has made them think they can do it again they can take the financial pressure. but we cant!
> 
> @MastanKhan
> I have an opportunity to give you answer on why 2 x Type 209 and 1 x Scorpion submarines were let go! in 3 day war.
> 
> Both of the sub types including Kilo class are equipped with rescue bouy. when there is emergency and possible sinking Sub captain can release it ...submarine dies but rescue bouy transmit the exact location of sinking. it was not possible to sunk them and everything would remain quiet. those who follow INS Kalveri (Scorpions are on adhoc basis armed with SUT Torps)
> 
> @Armchair
> Again, I am no Fauji please dont you see in my writing i am not able to use military abbreviations like f-pole or something like that actually had no idea... so me not what you are assuming!



So, in summary, can you please put forward your argument on how you arrived at 8 kills?

Here is one possible answer - IAF had 4 on CAP which had to take on the intruders. 4 more on scramble. So, that' 8 they had to take on. The main problem with this argument is that PAF managed to jam them and had standoff weapons so didn't really have to go into IOK meaningfully.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> 8 x Kills = 3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000i and 3 x MiG-21BISON.


No Chance if PAF shot down 8 IAF jets ,you know what is the consequence is @TheTallGuy  We had full fledged war with India then, mishap/crash/friendly fire was most likely the causes @TheTallGuy


----------



## Vortex

What ever was/is the number of indians jets shotdowned, the result is that no mig, no mirage, no sukhoi were seen next day in the border.

So if the number was not 8, at least it was same as if it was 8.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Flight of falcon

Let’s get some facts straight and clear.

Indians are dancing around and refusing to acknowledge their failures and their mistakes.

They attacked us first. They came within Pakistani territory and launched their spices and ran. This is the fact.

They crossed the border and came 5-6 miles inside to drop their load. It was important for them. They had to claim that they attacked Pakistan and that they attacked by crossing the border.

They claimed they were inside for 24 minutes and killed 350 people. Both are factually incorrect and impossible. As bad as their failure was a day before the next day they faced humiliation of biblical proportions.

Pakistan crossed the border in broad day light when Indians were supposedly at their maximum alert and bombed their military targets ( deliberately dropping loads next to buildings) and returned with out any losses. On top Of that we shot down their chasing aircraft. Indians shot down their helicopter which was picking up other downed aircraft pilots.

Some idiots are claiming that we never crossed the border and that we launched SOW from inside Pakistan.
Here is the official Indian ministry of defence press release. It clearly states that we crossed the border at multiple locations.

So Indians crossed border at one location and bombed one target at night catching us by surprise . Total aircraft involved 8. Losses: none on both sides.

Pakistan crosse border at multiple locations and bombed multiple targets in broad day light while Indians were at maximum alert. Pakistani aircrafts involves 24 .Total losses : Pakistan none ... Indian absolute humiliation at least two aircrafts and one helicopter and unknown numbers dead on the ground.

Anyone dares to disagree???

Look as for the exact number of kills the first news to come out of operations room was a Mirage 2000 destruction. About 20 mins later PAF guys on whatsapp chatline were claiming SU30 and Mig21. An hour after the whole thing started whatsapp group was shut down . I saved the screen shots. 

It is completely possible Indian lost more aircrafts. As for the proof they never released any pictures of any bombing sites and none came out on social media. Indian army control over Kashmir is brutal and absolute. They have successfully controlled information flow out of Kashmir.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## untitled

Evora said:


> View attachment 561594
> Mirage 2000


BAE Hawk trainer

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTallGuy

pakistanipower said:


> No Chance if PAF shot down 8 IAF jets ,you know what is the consequence is @TheTallGuy  We had full fledged war with India then, mishap/crash/friendly fire was most likely the causes @TheTallGuy



its alright! you dont need to agree..but threatening missile strikes constitute the consequences..just because of loosing 1 aircraft officially (IAF official narrative and with proof). IAF already adjusted KIA pilots/crew is spats of accidents and road accidents.



Flight of falcon said:


> Look as for the exact number of kills the first news to come out of operations room was a Mirage 2000 destruction. About 20 mins later PAF guys on whatsapp chatline were claiming SU30 and Mig21. An hour after the whole thing started whatsapp group was shut down . I saved the screen shots.



logically, Mirage 2000i were 1st to be shot down then came the standing CAP of Su-30MKI then came scramblers(Su-30MKI & MiG-21BISON)..last of which was MiG-21BISON at Kotla, Azad Kashmir.

Last two Kills have been witnessed over LOC were last of engagement not the 1st. 

I am pretty sure at-least 4 to 5 kills were scored within a minute rest 6th/7th/8th at last of whole episode! whole engagement can not last more then 6-7 minutes.

1st Kill Mirage 2000i CAP from Srinagar AFB (These i believe are JF17 Kills)
2nd Kill Mirage 2000i CAP from Srinager AFB (These i believe are JF17 Kills)
3rd MiG-21BISON scrambler from Srinagar AFB (Shot down while climbing over Srinagar AFB)
4th Kill Su-30MKI CAP from Sirsa AFB (True BVR long range kill over 40+km)
5th Kill Su-30MKI scrambler from Avantipura AFB (Rajnikanth over Brig or Div HQ)
6th Kill MiG-21BISON scrambler from Avantipura AFB or Udhampur AFB (Disengaging towards Raisi)
7th Kill Su-30MKI CAP from Sirsa AFB (Over LOC 2 x Chutes)
8th MiG-21BISON scrambler from Srinager AFB (inside Azad Kashmir, Kotla)

I tend to believe that atleast 1 x MiG-21BISON RTB to Udhampur AFB. May be 1 x More Su-30MKI RTB to Avantipura AFB.

It is all speculative till proven...so no need to believe and In time will acknowledged I have no doubt IAF lost 8 x Aircraft in Battle, hell they even lock a large aircraft thought to be IAF AWACS taken up position but let go because it was deep inside Indian mainland.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Myth_buster_1

TheTallGuy said:


> its alright! you dont need to agree..but threatening missile strikes constitute the consequences..just because of loosing 1 aircraft officially (IAF official narrative and with proof). IAF already adjusted KIA pilots/crew is spats of accidents and road accidents.
> 
> 
> 
> logically, Mirage 2000i were 1st to be shot down then came the standing CAP of Su-30MKI then came scramblers(Su-30MKI & MiG-21BISON)..last of which was MiG-21BISON at Kotla, Azad Kashmir.
> 
> Last two Kills have been witnessed over LOC were last of engagement not the 1st.
> 
> I am pretty sure at-least 4 to 5 kills were scored within a minute rest 6th/7th/8th at last of whole episode! whole engagement can not last more then 6-7 minutes.
> 
> 1st Kill Mirage 2000i CAP from Srinagar AFB (These i believe are JF17 Kills)
> 2nd Kill Mirage 2000i CAP from Srinager AFB (These i believe are JF17 Kills)
> 3rd MiG-21BISON scrambler from Srinagar AFB (Shot down while climbing over Srinagar AFB)
> 4th Kill Su-30MKI CAP from Sirsa AFB (True BVR long range kill over 40+km)
> 5th Kill Su-30MKI scrambler from Avantipura AFB (Rajnikanth over Brig or Div HQ)
> 6th Kill MiG-21BISON scrambler from Avantipura AFB or Udhampur AFB (Disengaging towards Raisi)
> 7th Kill Su-30MKI CAP from Sirsa AFB (Over LOC 2 x Chutes)
> 8th MiG-21BISON scrambler from Srinager AFB (inside Azad Kashmir, Kotla)
> 
> I tend to believe that atleast 1 x MiG-21BISON RTB to Udhampur AFB. May be 1 x More Su-30MKI RTB to Avantipura AFB.
> 
> It is all speculative till proven...so no need to believe and In time will acknowledged I have no doubt IAF lost 8 x Aircraft in Battle, hell they even lock a large aircraft thought to be IAF AWACS taken up position but let go because it was deep inside Indian mainland.



where were the civilians on the ground to record all this? When Mi-17 was shot down, civilians arrived before the military.... and the only possible way all these were shot down is if they were all pulverized before hitting the ground thus we see no other wreckage.


----------



## airomerix

TheTallGuy said:


> its alright! you dont need to agree..but threatening missile strikes constitute the consequences..just because of loosing 1 aircraft officially (IAF official narrative and with proof). IAF already adjusted KIA pilots/crew is spats of accidents and road accidents.
> 
> 
> 
> logically, Mirage 2000i were 1st to be shot down then came the standing CAP of Su-30MKI then came scramblers(Su-30MKI & MiG-21BISON)..last of which was MiG-21BISON at Kotla, Azad Kashmir.
> 
> Last two Kills have been witnessed over LOC were last of engagement not the 1st.
> 
> I am pretty sure at-least 4 to 5 kills were scored within a minute rest 6th/7th/8th at last of whole episode! whole engagement can not last more then 6-7 minutes.
> 
> 1st Kill Mirage 2000i CAP from Srinagar AFB (These i believe are JF17 Kills)
> 2nd Kill Mirage 2000i CAP from Srinager AFB (These i believe are JF17 Kills)
> 3rd MiG-21BISON scrambler from Srinagar AFB (Shot down while climbing over Srinagar AFB)
> 4th Kill Su-30MKI CAP from Sirsa AFB (True BVR long range kill over 40+km)
> 5th Kill Su-30MKI scrambler from Avantipura AFB (Rajnikanth over Brig or Div HQ)
> 6th Kill MiG-21BISON scrambler from Avantipura AFB or Udhampur AFB (Disengaging towards Raisi)
> 7th Kill Su-30MKI CAP from Sirsa AFB (Over LOC 2 x Chutes)
> 8th MiG-21BISON scrambler from Srinager AFB (inside Azad Kashmir, Kotla)
> 
> I tend to believe that atleast 1 x MiG-21BISON RTB to Udhampur AFB. May be 1 x More Su-30MKI RTB to Avantipura AFB.
> 
> It is all speculative till proven...so no need to believe and In time will acknowledged I have no doubt IAF lost 8 x Aircraft in Battle, hell they even lock a large aircraft thought to be IAF AWACS taken up position but let go because it was deep inside Indian mainland.



I showed this post to one of the guys who drives viper. He said Inshallah.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## SIPRA

airomerix said:


> I showed this post to one of the guys who drives viper. He said Inshallah.



Why didn't he say: "Mashallah"?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## airomerix

RIWWIR said:


> Why didn't he say: "Mashallah"?



He might have said it too.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## SIPRA

airomerix said:


> He might said it too.



Whatever one may say, but this @TheTallGuy is exceptional, in the sense, that he has, on his own, developed a thorougly complex and comprehensive scenario, of Feb 27, all based upon public information; though I could never gather the nerves to fully go through it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Flight of falcon

Myth_buster_1 said:


> where were the civilians on the ground to record all this? When Mi-17 was shot down, civilians arrived before the military.... and the only possible way all these were shot down is if they were all pulverized before hitting the ground thus we see no other wreckage.





My question to you is the same .... where are all the pictures from eight targets PAF hit? Why didn’t Indians allow media to go and see for themselves how we missed the targets and make fun of us??? What are Indians hiding and why are there no pictures on the social media. In mountainous area you can have an entire airliners disappears never to be found. Remember PIA Fokker ? What is a small fighter plane crashing and wreckage never found ..... and yes there was a “car” crash and two Su 30 pilots died with in few days of us claiming to have shot down the plane

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TheTallGuy

@airomerix 

Is it true JF17 let the F-16 have MiG-21BISON? at Kotla

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

TheTallGuy said:


> its alright! you dont need to agree..but threatening missile strikes constitute the consequences..just because of loosing 1 aircraft officially (IAF official narrative and with proof). IAF already adjusted KIA pilots/crew is spats of accidents and road accidents.
> 
> 
> 
> logically, Mirage 2000i were 1st to be shot down then came the standing CAP of Su-30MKI then came scramblers(Su-30MKI & MiG-21BISON)..last of which was MiG-21BISON at Kotla, Azad Kashmir.
> 
> Last two Kills have been witnessed over LOC were last of engagement not the 1st.
> 
> I am pretty sure at-least 4 to 5 kills were scored within a minute rest 6th/7th/8th at last of whole episode! whole engagement can not last more then 6-7 minutes.
> 
> 1st Kill Mirage 2000i CAP from Srinagar AFB (These i believe are JF17 Kills)
> 2nd Kill Mirage 2000i CAP from Srinager AFB (These i believe are JF17 Kills)
> 3rd MiG-21BISON scrambler from Srinagar AFB (Shot down while climbing over Srinagar AFB)
> 4th Kill Su-30MKI CAP from Sirsa AFB (True BVR long range kill over 40+km)
> 5th Kill Su-30MKI scrambler from Avantipura AFB (Rajnikanth over Brig or Div HQ)
> 6th Kill MiG-21BISON scrambler from Avantipura AFB or Udhampur AFB (Disengaging towards Raisi)
> 7th Kill Su-30MKI CAP from Sirsa AFB (Over LOC 2 x Chutes)
> 8th MiG-21BISON scrambler from Srinager AFB (inside Azad Kashmir, Kotla)
> 
> I tend to believe that atleast 1 x MiG-21BISON RTB to Udhampur AFB. May be 1 x More Su-30MKI RTB to Avantipura AFB.
> 
> It is all speculative till proven...so no need to believe and In time will acknowledged I have no doubt IAF lost 8 x Aircraft in Battle, hell they even lock a large aircraft thought to be IAF AWACS taken up position but let go because it was deep inside Indian mainland.


My primary curiosity is in the EW systems and, especially, the “algorithms” PAF employed during that air battle!?!? Definitely it has got tons of indignity in it. Has it got any Turkey inputs in it?!?! For Rahmetli Nejmettin Erbakan, the Father of the Muslim Siyaset in Turkey and a former professor of engineering at the Istanbul Technical University and a founding father of ASELSAN (the premier Turkish defense tech company), was describing one such scenario where enemy missiles could be directed to hit the friends....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TheTallGuy

Discussion on EW is no go area! no body should or would indulge on forum. Black Art

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Flight of falcon

TheTallGuy said:


> Discussion on EW is no go area! no body should or would indulge on forum. Black Art




Let’s just say in that fateful day for an hour at least Russian, Israeli, Swedish, American, Chinese, South African , Indian, Pakistani and French technologies collided in the most intense and to their maximum potential. We know Indians simply failed and that had nothing to do with the superior technology and equipment. It all came down to human Faith, endurance , ingenuity and training . Pakistanis excelled in all the above.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Readerdefence

TheTallGuy said:


> its alright! you dont need to agree..but threatening missile strikes constitute the consequences..just because of loosing 1 aircraft officially (IAF official narrative and with proof). IAF already adjusted KIA pilots/crew is spats of accidents and road accidents.
> 
> 
> 
> logically, Mirage 2000i were 1st to be shot down then came the standing CAP of Su-30MKI then came scramblers(Su-30MKI & MiG-21BISON)..last of which was MiG-21BISON at Kotla, Azad Kashmir.
> 
> Last two Kills have been witnessed over LOC were last of engagement not the 1st.
> 
> I am pretty sure at-least 4 to 5 kills were scored within a minute rest 6th/7th/8th at last of whole episode! whole engagement can not last more then 6-7 minutes.
> 
> 1st Kill Mirage 2000i CAP from Srinagar AFB (These i believe are JF17 Kills)
> 2nd Kill Mirage 2000i CAP from Srinager AFB (These i believe are JF17 Kills)
> 3rd MiG-21BISON scrambler from Srinagar AFB (Shot down while climbing over Srinagar AFB)
> 4th Kill Su-30MKI CAP from Sirsa AFB (True BVR long range kill over 40+km)
> 5th Kill Su-30MKI scrambler from Avantipura AFB (Rajnikanth over Brig or Div HQ)
> 6th Kill MiG-21BISON scrambler from Avantipura AFB or Udhampur AFB (Disengaging towards Raisi)
> 7th Kill Su-30MKI CAP from Sirsa AFB (Over LOC 2 x Chutes)
> 8th MiG-21BISON scrambler from Srinager AFB (inside Azad Kashmir, Kotla)
> 
> I tend to believe that atleast 1 x MiG-21BISON RTB to Udhampur AFB. May be 1 x More Su-30MKI RTB to Avantipura AFB.
> 
> It is all speculative till proven...so no need to believe and In time will acknowledged I have no doubt IAF lost 8 x Aircraft in Battle, hell they even lock a large aircraft thought to be IAF AWACS taken up position but let go because it was deep inside Indian mainland.


Hi just a Q from you hope you will clarify my thoughts 
1 what kind of missile PAF were using at that time of letting go large aircraft such as awacs 
2 usually awacs is well around 350-400 km inside their territory(like a refule aircraft well beyond 
The missile range 
So I’m just curious about what kind of missile we locked this aircraft with as at the moment PL15 is definitely not integrated with jf17 or any other with F16s ?
Thank you


----------



## Mace

TheTallGuy said:


> its alright! you dont need to agree..but threatening missile strikes constitute the consequences..just because of loosing 1 aircraft officially (IAF official narrative and with proof). IAF already adjusted KIA pilots/crew is spats of accidents and road accidents.
> 
> 
> 
> logically, Mirage 2000i were 1st to be shot down then came the standing CAP of Su-30MKI then came scramblers(Su-30MKI & MiG-21BISON)..last of which was MiG-21BISON at Kotla, Azad Kashmir.
> 
> Last two Kills have been witnessed over LOC were last of engagement not the 1st.
> 
> I am pretty sure at-least 4 to 5 kills were scored within a minute rest 6th/7th/8th at last of whole episode! whole engagement can not last more then 6-7 minutes.
> 
> 1st Kill Mirage 2000i CAP from Srinagar AFB (These i believe are JF17 Kills)
> 2nd Kill Mirage 2000i CAP from Srinager AFB (These i believe are JF17 Kills)
> 3rd MiG-21BISON scrambler from Srinagar AFB (Shot down while climbing over Srinagar AFB)
> 4th Kill Su-30MKI CAP from Sirsa AFB (True BVR long range kill over 40+km)
> 5th Kill Su-30MKI scrambler from Avantipura AFB (Rajnikanth over Brig or Div HQ)
> 6th Kill MiG-21BISON scrambler from Avantipura AFB or Udhampur AFB (Disengaging towards Raisi)
> 7th Kill Su-30MKI CAP from Sirsa AFB (Over LOC 2 x Chutes)
> 8th MiG-21BISON scrambler from Srinager AFB (inside Azad Kashmir, Kotla)
> 
> I tend to believe that atleast 1 x MiG-21BISON RTB to Udhampur AFB. May be 1 x More Su-30MKI RTB to Avantipura AFB.
> 
> It is all speculative till proven...so no need to believe and In time will acknowledged I have no doubt IAF lost 8 x Aircraft in Battle, hell they even lock a large aircraft thought to be IAF AWACS taken up position but let go because it was deep inside Indian mainland.


----------



## TheTallGuy

Readerdefence said:


> Hi just a Q from you hope you will clarify my thoughts
> 1 what kind of missile PAF were using at that time of letting go large aircraft such as awacs
> 2 usually awacs is well around 350-400 km inside their territory(like a refule aircraft well beyond
> The missile range
> So I’m just curious about what kind of missile we locked this aircraft with as at the moment PL15 is definitely not integrated with jf17 or any other with F16s ?
> Thank you



There was a separate F-16 CAP near or over sharkargarh that locked up IAF AWACS taking position. as per indian narrative they had 2 in air.

if anything to go by see this MAP part of Indian Narrative

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

You 


TheTallGuy said:


> There was a separate F-16 CAP near or over sharkargarh that locked up IAF AWACS taking position. as per indian narrative they had 2 in air.
> 
> if anything to go by see this MAP part of Indian Narrative
> View attachment 561834


too much assuming bro, rules of engagement wouldn't same at every aerial battle @TheTallGuy


----------



## TheTallGuy

@Mace 

I request you to join up and discuss what was the real situation. and important note why did Arvind Sinha committed suicide...after all senior Official of IAF (PRO) at ministry of Defense



pakistanipower said:


> too much assuming bro, rules of engagement wouldn't same at every aerial battle



We can agree to disagree ..dont believe me..its Ok

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> We can agree to disagree ..dont believe me..its Ok


But you're spreading false speculations/assertions with no backup or proofs @TheTallGuy


----------



## Mace

TheTallGuy said:


> @Mace
> 
> I request you to join up and discuss what was the real situation. and important note why did Arvind Sinha committed suicide...after all senior Official of IAF (PRO) at ministry of Defense
> 
> 
> 
> We can agree to disagree ..dont believe me..its Ok



Sorry bro, you are not backing up your claims with any supporting evidence, not even circumstantial. 

Why only Arvind Sinha and not other IAF senior officials? Not a valid argument.


----------



## TheTallGuy

pakistanipower said:


> But you're spreading false speculations/assertions with no backup or proofs



They are not false! these can be said speculative/assumptions/assertions or educated guess. till time will tell. 

Asking of proof goes both ways ..You ask for proof by this criteria PAF has no proof on 2nd Claim, have they shown strike footage? NO! so no proof they did strike - didnt happened..they claim but did they show proof.

By this criteria nothing happened. case closed. its OK. 



Mace said:


> Sorry bro, you are not backing up your claims with any supporting evidence, not even circumstantial.
> 
> Why only Arvind Sinha and not other IAF senior officials? Not a valid argument.



why do i need to backup my claims ...can you prove them wrong? I dont even ask for proof ..i only ask that lets discuss on IAF OrBat of 27th Feb 19 discuss tactics and deployments. share some details and by constructive discussion you can by valid argument nullified by claim. if i said one MiG-27 was shot down ...you can theoretically prove that there was no MiG-27M in theater of Kashmir and i can agree with you! certainly valid point..

Look its that easy...if you do not have the enough knowledge or expertise in this regard you can say tallguy i dont have enough info on the subject matter will not discuss and it would be Ok.

About arvind sinha why choose suicide on following date...was the world coming to end or he threatened to open pandora box?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> They are not false! these can be said speculative/assumptions/assertions or educated guess. till time will tell.
> 
> Asking of proof goes both ways ..You ask for proof by this criteria PAF has no proof on 2nd Claim, have they shown strike footage? NO! so no proof they did strike - didnt happened..they claim but did they show proof.
> 
> By this criteria nothing happened. case closed. its OK.


Theses are not educated guess but false speculations/assertions of yours, PAF/IAF will not shows the classified data to give the weakness/strength to Public hence to the enemy @TheTallGuy



TheTallGuy said:


> About arvind sinha why choose suicide on following date...was the world coming to end or he threatened to open pandora box?


is his suicide relates to FEB 27 air battle, again you bringing too much conspiracy theories @TheTallGuy

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MastanKhan

TheTallGuy said:


> @RIWWIR @pakistanipower
> As your requirement PAF has only one proof - 1 x MiG-21BISON, 1 x PILOT every other thing is mere speculation. case should be closed!
> 
> I am not enforcing - i am putting it on the table and requesting proper/subjective discussion on each kill. i am speculating or not any body serious enough to follow the events will know IAF decimation had happened.
> 8 x Kills = 3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000i and 3 x MiG-21BISON.
> 
> By the way better get ready for next round! Nazi Modi scale-able project has started with killing of Zakir Musa - now in reaction anything can happen - it will be blamed on Pakistan - They have recently tested air launch brahmos A. get ready
> 
> This happens when you give safe passage - should have opened in start waiting has made them think they can do it again they can take the financial pressure. but we cant!!



Hi,

That is an excellent analysis---.

Come to think of it---what stopped the indians from striking back that day or night---must have been some catastrophic damage that they suffered---.

Mean to say---1 downed mig21 aircraft is nothing---. By default---the indians air force would have wanted immediate & total air superiority---for the very reason that the inventory of aircraft they had---dictated that they should have total air superiority---.

What stopped them to retaliate---what made PM Modi utter for the Rafale to come save them---something serious must have happened---something beyond expectations would have taken place---.

You forgot to add the helicopter to that list---it is 8 aircraft and one chopper---.

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## Mig hunter

MastanKhan said:


> Mean to say---1 downed mig21 aircraft is nothing---. By default---the indians air force would have wanted immediate & total air superiority---for the very reason that the inventory of aircraft they had---dictated that they should have total air superiority---.
> 
> What stopped them to retaliate---what made PM Modi utter for the Rafale to come save them---something serious must have happened---something beyond


That is the same questions I asked, some other hypothesis are
1. Y IAF was operating 40 km away from border on very next day of PAF strike
2. Y India was going to such an extreme measure which could have easily exclated into full blown war like carrying out a missile strike, is it not strange that as per their narrative they shot down an F16 while loosing Mig 21which clearly indicate Indian victory
3. Mere loss of a mig 21 and PAF failed strike as per their narrative doesn't compel a country to go for an all out war or a missile strike.
4. If we critically analyse the body language of Indian military generals during press brief it clearly suggest some thing big has happened to them ie beyond downing of Mig 21 and that may be something which @TheTallGuy is claiming
5. Last of all was Modi comment regarding,, agar hamare pas Rafael hota,,

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## CriticalThought

Mig hunter said:


> That is the same questions I asked, some other hypothesis are
> 1. Y IAF was operating 40 km away from border on very next day of PAF strike
> 2. Y India was going to such an extreme measure which could have easily exclated into full blown war like carrying out a missile strike, is it not strange that as per their narrative they shot down an F16 while loosing Mig 21which clearly indicate Indian victory
> 3. Mere loss of a mig 21 and PAF failed strike as per their narrative doesn't compel a country to go for an all out war or a missile strike.
> 4. If we critically analyse the body language of Indian military generals during press brief it clearly suggest some thing big has happened to them ie beyond downing of Mig 21 and that may be something which @TheTallGuy is claiming
> 5. Last of all was Modi comment regarding,, agar hamare pas Rafael hota,,




Let's not forget Qamar Bajwa had telephone exchanges with COAS of America, Britain, Russia, China, and even Australia. His statement (comprehension) "Pakistan will do whatever is necessary to defend itself". Those are powerful words after talking with some of the world's most powerful men. I also agree, 2 aircrafts down would only make India more berserk like a hyena kicked in the guts.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Mace

TheTallGuy said:


> why do i need to backup my claims ...can you prove them wrong? I dont even ask for proof ..i only ask that lets discuss on IAF OrBat of 27th Feb 19 discuss tactics and deployments. share some details and by constructive discussion you can by valid argument nullified by claim. if i said one MiG-27 was shot down ...you can theoretically prove that there was no MiG-27M in theater of Kashmir and i can agree with you! certainly valid point..
> 
> Look its that easy...if you do not have the enough knowledge or expertise in this regard you can say tallguy i dont have enough info on the subject matter will not discuss and it would be Ok.
> 
> About arvind sinha why choose suicide on following date...was the world coming to end or he threatened to open pandora box?



Ok I will take the bait. Will discuss.

Mind you it is next to impossible to hide the wreckage of 7 other fighters as suggested by you.

@MastanKhan 
IAF stood down or did not retaliate or escalate for the simple reason, they were ordered to by the political bosses. 

Modi is a more seasoned political strategist to know when or how to play his cards. Balakot was the message. His massive election victory is witness to his political acumen.

His damp squib reply to Ik’s congratulatory message post election win is a sign India for a long time is going to keep Pak at arms length.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Arsalan 345

entire paf was airborne.why entire paf? this is a very good question.clearly nobody knows the real events.dogfight with mig-21 happened at the later stage but nobody knows what happened in the initial stages.paf bombed empty spaces near installations.paf probably intruded deep and one fighter jet probably used helicopter as cover against incoming indian missile from sam.anything is possible.i am sure paf jets infiltrated deep.hiding 7 jets is not possible.what was amraam doing inside india? india showed amraam to public which clearly means that it was either searching target or hit target.it is clear that we either targeted their helicopter or used their helicopter as cover.indian sam cover was broken and pakistan now have full information about critical locations.why india was angry is a totally different question.india either lost something big or wanted to save her face from pilot capture humiliation.indian radar data are still pictures but it's true that they were after our f-16 who was returning from bombing mission.either we lost our plane or they lost their su-30 but wreckage clearly falls on our side so 2nd jet is a mystery and more likely to be our jet.


----------



## untitled

@TheTallGuy if your claims are indeed true then why are pictures of only 2 PAF pilots with kills circulating the internet?


----------



## crankthatskunk

Mace said:


> Ok I will take the bait. Will discuss.
> 
> Mind you it is next to impossible to hide the wreckage of 7 other fighters as suggested by you.
> 
> @MastanKhan
> IAF stood down or did not retaliate or escalate for the simple reason, they were ordered to by the political bosses.
> 
> Modi is a more seasoned political strategist to know when or how to play his cards. Balakot was the message. His massive election victory is witness to his political acumen.
> 
> His damp squib reply to Ik’s congratulatory message post election win is a sign India for a long time is going to keep Pak at arms length.



Wow. Logic from an Indian. Screwed as usual. 
Modi bemoaned not having Rafale. That doesn't sound like murmuring of a seasoned politician. 
It is that Indians are idiots that they bought his narratives, like you are doing here.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

crankthatskunk said:


> Wow. Logic from an Indian. Screwed as usual.
> Modi bemoaned not having Rafale. That doesn't sound like murmuring of a seasoned politician.
> It is that Indians are idiots that they bought his narratives, like you are doing here.


Modi’s statements like “great loss” and “had there been Rafaels” are the best accolades for the PAF performance on 02-27!!! And, it’s the biggest garbage case for the IAF in the current form!!! Thanks to God he’s been re-elected...

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## SIPRA

The primary objective, for which Balakot strikes, were planned and carried out by Modi, has already been duly achieved, in an exceptional manner. Sans Balakot, he could never ever even imagine of 303 seats, and that also for BJP alone.

All the rest is secondary, peripheral and incidental.

Modi is, no doubt, an ideal and perfect embodiment of the Chanakyan philosophy and thinking.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Telescopic Sight

RIWWIR said:


> The primary objective, for which Balakot strikes, were planned and carried out by Modi, has already been duly achieved, in an exceptional manner. Sans Balakot, he could never ever even imagine of 303 seats, and that also for BJP alone.
> 
> All the rest is secondary, peripheral and incidental.
> 
> Modi is, no doubt, an ideal and perfect embodiment of the Chanakyan philosophy and thinking.



Exactly ! 
And Modi knew that prolonging any air war will be a mistake right before the election. WHen the purpose is served then why risk even the slightest damage that will risk even a single vote?
Honestly, the next 5 years will keep PAF on it's toes. It is in no position to start anything at all. It can only react to what the IAF does . I'm not trolling, just being realistic.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Windjammer

Telescopic Sight said:


> Exactly !
> And Modi knew that prolonging any air war will be a mistake right before the election. WHen the purpose is served then why risk even the slightest damage that will risk even a single vote?
> Honestly, the next 5 years will keep PAF on it's toes. It is in no position to start anything at all. It can only react to what the IAF does . I'm not trolling, just being realistic.


And it has squarely put the IAF on the back foot and sent the planners back to the drawing board.
Ask anyone from India if the IAF aircraft are venturing anywhere near the LOC.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Mace

Windjammer said:


> And it has squarely put the IAF on the back foot and sent the planners back to the drawing board.
> Ask anyone from India if the IAF aircraft are venturing anywhere near the LOC.



It is Pak which has closed its airspace. News of F16 moved away from FOBs. 

Why IAF is on the back foot?? If anything Pak and paf are on the back foot. It comes off even worse for paf if IAF is not even venturing anywhere near loc.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

Mace said:


> It is Pak which has closed its airspace. News of F16 moved away from FOBs.
> 
> Why IAF is on the back foot?? If anything Pak and paf are on the back foot. It comes off even worse for paf if IAF is not even venturing anywhere near loc.


Its tactics/stretagies of PAF/govt, so what the problems if our F-16 is not near to LOC, and we are not place our front line jets near to LOC in war or in peace @Mace

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SIPRA

Telescopic Sight said:


> Exactly !
> And Modi knew that prolonging any air war will be a mistake right before the election. WHen the purpose is served then why risk even the slightest damage that will risk even a single vote?



Yes. Rather, my contention is that there was absolutely no idea of war, at all, to start with. Modi made a well calculated move and, throughout the episode, proceeded in accordance with the initially laid out plans. I further believe, very strongly, to which most of my Pakistani friends would not agree, that Balakot strike was a deliberate miss, to avoid any human casualty and damage to any building or infrastructure, at all costs. Missiles struck precisely, where they were intended, that is at a small distance from the "proclaimed" targets. Whole game was to falsely claim the killing of so-called "Terrorists"; propagate it through the gullible media; and fool the voter. This objective has been achieved amply, even beyond the imaginations of its perpetrators.



Telescopic Sight said:


> Honestly, the next 5 years will keep PAF on it's toes. It is in no position to start anything at all. It can only react to what the IAF does .



First thing is that it is not a matter of PAF, but of Pakistan military, as a whole. At strategic level, Pakistan's posture against India has primarily been defensive and reactive, at least, since 2000. To remain on toes, is an essential and inadvertent consequence of such a posture and, therefore, it is nothing new. Two major military standoffs, between India and Pakistan, in the past 20 years, point towards this condition.



Telescopic Sight said:


> I'm not trolling, just being realistic.



I know, you are not trolling.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CriticalThought

Windjammer said:


> And it has squarely put the IAF on the back foot and sent the planners back to the drawing board.
> Ask anyone from India if the IAF aircraft are venturing anywhere near the LOC.



The problem with letting the enemy go is that he will regroup and reorganize based on newfound insight into your abilities. In India's case, this is the Su-30 + Brahmos combination which I suspect will be launched with full cooperation of the Western suppliers of radars and AEWACS to Pakistan. We have simply raised the stakes against our favor and now we will have to contend with bigger and more lethal threats. India will not merely attack for show next time.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Shabi1

CriticalThought said:


> The problem with letting the enemy go is that he will regroup and reorganize based on newfound insight into your abilities. In India's case, this is the Su-30 + Brahmos combination which I suspect will be launched with full cooperation of the Western suppliers of radars and AEWACS to Pakistan. We have simply raised the stakes against our favor and now we will have to contend with bigger and more lethal threats. India will not merely attack for show next time.



However things are not stagnant at PAF end as well, PL-10, PL-15 and JF-17 Blk-3s will be entering service 2020. As per rumors JF-17 Blk-2s will be or have been equipped with PL-15s. Although they might not be able to take full advantage of PL-15s range but it will have a extremely good no escape zone (missile NEZ). To top this it is still a secret how despite their monster radars the SU-30s could not make any shots.

So stakes being upped on both ends. With difference being the myth of invincibility gone for InAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CriticalThought

Shabi1 said:


> However things are not stagnant at PAF end as well, PL-10, PL-15 and JF-17 Blk-3s will be entering service 2020. As per rumors JF-17 Blk-2s will be or have been equipped with PL-15s. Although they might not be able to take full advantage of PL-15s range but it will have a extremely good no escape zone (missile NEZ). To top this it is still a secret how despite their monster radars the SU-30s could not make any shots.
> 
> So stakes being upped on both ends. With difference being the myth of invincibility gone for InAF.



I am, and have been, worried about IAF's strike element which can launch a surprise saturation attack with full Western support. I hope Pak armed forces are prepared for this eventuality.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Shabi1

CriticalThought said:


> I am, and have been, worried about IAF's strike element which can launch a surprise saturation attack with full Western support. I hope Pak armed forces are prepared for this eventuality.


Such a scenario is a declaration of all out war and part of cold start doctrine, repercussions and resultant response are known to India.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## CriticalThought

Shabi1 said:


> Such a scenario is a declaration of all out war and part of cold start doctrine, repercussions and resultant response are known to India.



A saturation attack on our forward defences and critical military infrastructure will cripple us. And we have shown ourselves incapable of standing up against Western pressures. Cue the subservient and slave mentality behind Abhinandan's release, the encouragement of homosexuality through transgender bill, the mockery of Justice in Aasia case, complete end of material support to Kashmir cause, a meek and lame response to Indian sponsored terrorism, and the handing over of country's economy to IMF. I fear, and I hope I am proven wrong in this, our leaders don't have the backbone to do what it takes. If forward defences and critical infrastructure falls, our security apparatus may yet prove to be a deck of cards.



RIWWIR said:


> To be very brief, I think that Pakistan is more than prepared, and, second, that, under all probability, India cannot and would not carry out any serious attack on Pakistan. At best, another attack, if it happens, would be more or less as impotent and ineffective, as the Balakot strikes were.



Do not overestimate yourself and do not underestimate the enemy.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CriticalThought

RIWWIR said:


> My fault. Kindly disregard my post.



But please don't disregard mine.


----------



## IFB

RIWWIR said:


> The primary objective, for which Balakot strikes, were planned and carried out by Modi, has already been duly achieved, in an exceptional manner. Sans Balakot, he could never ever even imagine of 303 seats, and that also for BJP alone.
> 
> All the rest is secondary, peripheral and incidental.
> 
> Modi is, no doubt, an ideal and perfect embodiment of the Chanakyan philosophy and thinking.



Some pakistani poster's like you know more about india than most commoners from indian...which is a sad thing really.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NA71

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> That is an excellent analysis---.
> 
> Come to think of it---what stopped the indians from striking back that day or night---must have been some catastrophic damage that they suffered---.
> 
> Mean to say---1 downed mig21 aircraft is nothing---. By default---the indians air force would have wanted immediate & total air superiority---for the very reason that the inventory of aircraft they had---dictated that they should have total air superiority---.
> 
> What stopped them to retaliate---what made PM Modi utter for the Rafale to come save them---something serious must have happened---something beyond expectations would have taken place---.
> 
> You forgot to add the helicopter to that list---it is 8 aircraft and one chopper---.



100%....true...If the score is not 8... It is also not what we have been told....it is definitely 5 plus.....but we love to play games. Imagine if Indians did this to PAF....i think they would have changed their Flag design and marked those kills on it.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## SIPRA

IFB said:


> Some pakistani poster's like you know more about india than most commoners from indian...which is a sad thing really.



You are somewhat right; but, I think that, it is not only a matter of knowledge, but also of objectivity in analysis. For carrying out a true analysis, it is necessary to overcome, as far as possible, one's prejudices, by conscious effort; though a human being can never be fully free of certain biases.

I have observed that there are many posters on PDF, who appear to be very educated, knowledgeable and intelligent, from their language, communication skills and argumentation. But, to my mind, they inadvertently arrive at wrong conclusions, owing primarily to their inbuilt prejudices, which they are unable to control somehow.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## NA71

Mace said:


> It is Pak which has closed its airspace. News of F16 moved away from FOBs.
> 
> Why IAF is on the back foot?? If anything Pak and paf are on the back foot. It comes off even worse for paf if IAF is not even venturing anywhere near loc.



All F16s are still on FOBs...don't take these news seriously...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Shabi1 said:


> Such a scenario is a declaration of all out war and part of cold start doctrine, repercussions and resultant response are known to India.


You won’t be able to surprise us, we’ll surprise you - Pak war doctrine....

As for the _Ehl-i Iman_, it’s definitely not a surprise!!! When the distinction between the _Hak_ and the _Ba’til_ gets this much _Mubin_, we know with certainty what to expect!!! The historical precedences are here being those of Ebu Jahil, Ebu Lehap, Firaun, Nemrut etc. No wonder Imran Bey was pitching for Modi’s election victory....



RIWWIR said:


> The primary objective, for which Balakot strikes, were planned and carried out by Modi, has already been duly achieved, in an exceptional manner. Sans Balakot, he could never ever even imagine of 303 seats, and that also for BJP alone.
> 
> All the rest is secondary, peripheral and incidental.
> 
> Modi is, no doubt, an ideal and perfect embodiment of the Chanakyan philosophy and thinking.


Hence, the best Hindutuva thing that could have happened to Pak....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTallGuy

Mace said:


> It is Pak which has closed its airspace. News of F16 moved away from FOBs.



In literal sense all PAF Bases are FOB. we do not have depth i remember reading some where that from Sarghoda to Lahore Border fly time in combat speed in Sabre was 9 mins. in these modern times it would be shorter! 

Closing air space is hurting india more then pakistan..

please lets start the discussion on IAF OrBat on 27th Feb 19 in Kashmir

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Armchair

TheTallGuy said:


> In literal sense all PAF Bases are FOB. we do not have depth i remember reading some where that from Sarghoda to Lahore Border fly time in combat speed in Sabre was 9 mins. in these modern times it would be shorter!
> 
> Closing air space is hurting india more then pakistan..
> 
> please lets start the discussion on IAF OrBat on 27th Feb 19 in Kashmir




I think other than the initial 8, there must have been a second round with other Indian aircraft coming to their aid.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Flight of falcon

CriticalThought said:


> A saturation attack on our forward defences and critical military infrastructure will cripple us. And we have shown ourselves incapable of standing up against Western pressures. Cue the subservient and slave mentality behind Abhinandan's release, the encouragement of homosexuality through transgender bill, the mockery of Justice in Aasia case, complete end of material support to Kashmir cause, a meek and lame response to Indian sponsored terrorism, and the handing over of country's economy to IMF. I fear, and I hope I am proven wrong in this, our leaders don't have the backbone to do what it takes. If forward defences and critical infrastructure falls, our security apparatus may yet prove to be a deck of cards.
> 
> 
> 
> Do not overestimate yourself and do not underestimate the enemy.





Without derailing the entire thread I cannot answer your comments. However you are so wrong in so many issues it leaves me confused where to start from. I am afraid to ask but I hope you are not agreeing to one of those venom spitting dog faced cowards who are asking for Asia Bibi blood ? Because they are cowards equal to Indian forces in kashmir. Also going to IMF is selling out? Really ? Who was gonna pay for the economic hit man Ishaq/Nawaz economic slaughter?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Readerdefence

TheTallGuy said:


> There was a separate F-16 CAP near or over sharkargarh that locked up IAF AWACS taking position. as per indian narrative they had 2 in air.
> 
> if anything to go by see this MAP part of Indian Narrative
> View attachment 561834


Hi thx for your graphic reply I’m assuming you want to say PAF has a missile which can cover
More then 200km to outgun the AWACS or can lock them if they can what kind of missile they are using for this scenario 
Thank you


----------



## TheTallGuy

Armchair said:


> I think other than the initial 8, there must have been a second round with other Indian aircraft coming to their aid.



lets by bifurcate 2 x Su-30MKI (No.15 Sqn, IAF), 2 x Mirage 2000i(No.1 Sqn, IAF gawalor Based forward deployed at Srinagar AFB on 26th Feb 19) were on CAP.
4 x Scramblers (2 x MiG21BISON, No.51 Sqn Srinager AFB), (2 x Mig-21BISON, No.26 Sqn, Udhampur AFB)

since we have 2 x Su-30MKI (No.15 Sqn, IAF) CAP in mainland India also responded. 

Basically 4 x CAPs, 4 x Scrambles, 2 x intervention CAP from Mainland.

these are just the aircraft that were in shooting gallery..i am not talking support aircraft operation in mainland India.

@Mace would i be correct in this? plus can define me difference between Su-30MKI and MKI-3

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## MastanKhan

IFB said:


> Some pakistani poster's like you know more about india than most commoners from indian...which is a sad thing really.



Hi,

And there is no surprise in it--. 

That is a standard---. Most commoners anywhere in the world don't know much about their country---all they do is try to make a living to keep their head above the water---.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TheTallGuy

Readerdefence said:


> Hi thx for your graphic reply I’m assuming you want to say PAF has a missile which can cover
> More then 200km to outgun the AWACS or can lock them if they can what kind of missile they are using for this scenario
> Thank you



No PAF does not have AAM that has range to hit 200km target.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## MastanKhan

RIWWIR said:


> You are somewhat right; but, I think that, it is not only a matter of knowledge, but also of objectivity in analysis. For carrying out a true analysis, it is necessary to overcome, as far as possible, one's prejudices, by conscious effort; though a human being can never be fully free of certain biases.
> 
> I have observed that there are many posters on PDF, who appear to be very educated, knowledgeable and intelligent, from their language, communication skills and argumentation. But, to my mind, they inadvertently arrive at wrong conclusions, owing primarily to their inbuilt prejudices, which they are unable to control somehow.



Hi,

Welcome to the forum---.

Arriving at wrong conclusion is subjective---. It is also based upon the information being fed---. It is also based on personal experiences of prior happenings---to what is happening now.

As for analysis---the question would be---what is the objectivity of the analysis---the objectivity must depend on its purpose---is it for scientific purpose---is it for internal consumption---or for general disclosures---or to sabotage the enemy's plans and create confusion---?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## alphibeti

Mace said:


> Ok I will take the bait. Will discuss.
> 
> Mind you it is next to impossible to hide the wreckage of 7 other fighters as suggested by you.
> 
> @MastanKhan
> IAF stood down or did not retaliate or escalate for the simple reason, they were ordered to by the political bosses.
> 
> Modi is a more seasoned political strategist to know when or how to play his cards. Balakot was the message. His massive election victory is witness to his political acumen.
> 
> His damp squib reply to Ik’s congratulatory message post election win is a sign India for a long time is going to keep Pak at arms length.


Yeah, the political boss Modi is a more seasoned political strategist who resorted to aggression against a sovereign country and then got a sever military pummeling with a bloody nose. Isn't it? The boss then got his diapers wet and smelly. The 'seasoned political strategist' then resorted to threaten the neighboring country with massive missile attack. When got an erected response, the monkey back downed meekly. A political strategist monkey indeed, I assume.



Mace said:


> It is Pak which has closed its airspace. News of F16 moved away from FOBs.
> 
> Why IAF is on the back foot?? If anything Pak and paf are on the back foot. It comes off even worse for paf if IAF is not even venturing anywhere near loc.


Because we have a coward enemy that can only launch aggression against us in the pitch of darkness. Such a cheap enemy can exploit civilian airspace to launch an attack on us. Smart people plug the hole first rather than leaving themselves vulnerable while challenging the enemy. Latter is not being brave but rather being stupid.
BTW, we are not losing any thing by closing the air space while the closure is causing Indians lose financially quite a bit. So what's the hurry to re-open it?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## CriticalThought

Flight of falcon said:


> Without derailing the entire thread I cannot answer your comments. However you are so wrong in so many issues it leaves me confused where to start from. I am afraid to ask but I hope you are not agreeing to one of those venom spitting dog faced cowards who are asking for Asia Bibi blood ? Because they are cowards equal to Indian forces in kashmir. Also going to IMF is selling out? Really ? Who was gonna pay for the economic hit man Ishaq/Nawaz economic slaughter?



Without derailing the entire thread, I can tell you that a string of invectives only debases the person throwing them. And you just proved my point. When our own are ready to make the case for their non-Muslim masters, when many of our own have openly shunned Islam and its principles, then subservience is all we can look forward to. And so keen are you in defending your leader, that you can't even think beyond his actions. Out of 200 million Pakistanis, your leader is unable to find two individuals to head SBP and FBR who are not employees of World Bank or IMF? Forget the rest of this entire post and answer this one question. And then think for yourself: a nation that needs someone else to come and manage its economic affairs, a nation whose security depends on electronics provided by Western masters, should worry when their arch enemy is the Darling of Western eyes.


----------



## Flight of falcon

CriticalThought said:


> Without derailing the entire thread, I can tell you that a string of invectives only debases the person throwing them. And you just proved my point. When our own are ready to make the case for their non-Muslim masters, when many of our own have openly shunned Islam and its principles, then subservience is all we can look forward to. And so keen are you in defending your leader, that you can't even think beyond his actions. Out of 200 million Pakistanis, your leader is unable to find two individuals to head SBP and FBR who are not employees of World Bank or IMF? Forget the rest of this entire post and answer this one question. And then think for yourself: a nation that needs someone else to come and manage its economic affairs, a nation whose security depends on electronics provided by Western masters, should worry when their arch enemy is the Darling of Western eyes.



Please consider this my short and final response. 
Of all the points that you raised you choose to talk about IMF. Wish you had elaborated on your pro Nawaz talking nonsense of foreign masters, Asia Bibi etc but let me talk about this for now.
First of all these guys are Pakistanis and there is no shame in bringing experts who understand how to deal and negotiate and implement agreement made by the IMF. If I was to make a good deal I would want to understand the inner workings of the organization I am dealing with. Hafeez is a technocrat not a politician . Pandoos are too busy pointing out this issue but yet no one is talking about how the government has requested only for six billion support instead of 12 billion originally thought. I guess you take the share of Nawaz and zardari out and we only needed six billion to survive. 
If Saudis can hire a Pakistani general to run coalition support and Microsoft can hire an Indian then why can’t Pakistan hire a Pakistani to run our affairs? Just because they worked for a different organization I consider that an asset not a liability.

I am done and sorry moderator for Turing this military talk into political nonsense.



Mace said:


> Literal sense! Wow! Anyhow the answer was for not whether you considered all paf airbases FOBs.
> 
> Closing air space is a sign of cowardice/ shi**ing in the pants if you will. Otherwise the only explanation is Pak is under significant pressure expecting further retaliation from IAF.




Sign of cowardice? Obviously you have never fired a bullet in your life to make such big claim. We have to do what is necessary to fight an enemy that is the biggest coward on earth. Attacking us in the dark ( and under the cloud cover ) we have to be prepared. Our assets should be close to the border for the time when it’s absolutely necessary. These assets are very susptible to SOW and need proper layered protection.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

NA71 said:


> 100%....true...If the score is not 8... It is also not what we have been told....it is definitely 5 plus.....but we love to play games. Imagine if Indians did this to PAF....i think they would have changed their Flag design and marked those kills on it.


Ziada hogaya bhai


----------



## CriticalThought

Flight of falcon said:


> Please consider this my short and final response.
> Of all the points that you raised you choose to talk about IMF. Wish you had elaborated on your pro Nawaz talking nonsense of foreign masters, Asia Bibi etc but let me talk about this for now.
> First of all these guys are Pakistanis and there is no shame in bringing experts who understand how to deal and negotiate and implement agreement made by the IMF. If I was to make a good deal I would want to understand the inner workings of the organization I am dealing with. Hafeez is a technocrat not a politician . Pandoos are too busy pointing out this issue but yet no one is talking about how the government has requested only for six billion support instead of 12 billion originally thought. I guess you take the share of Nawaz and zardari out and we only needed six billion to survive.
> If Saudis can hire a Pakistani general to run coalition support and Microsoft can hire an Indian then why can’t Pakistan hire a Pakistani to run our affairs? Just because they worked for a different organization I consider that an asset not a liability.
> 
> I am done and sorry moderator for Turing this military talk into political nonsense.



There is no shame among the shameless, no dignity among the mentally enslaved, and no God Fearliness amongst pursuers of worldly gains. You can see your true face in this.

EDIT: I consider Musharraf, Zardari and Nawaz to be enemies of Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Flight of falcon

CriticalThought said:


> There is no shame among the shameless, no dignity among the mentally enslaved, and no God Fearliness amongst pursuers of worldly gains. You can see your true face in this.
> 
> EDIT: I consider Musharraf, Zardari and Nawaz to be enemies of Pakistan.




Nothing better than giving pat on your own back to boost your ego when you run out of logic, reasoning and facts.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CriticalThought

Flight of falcon said:


> Nothing better than giving pat on your own back to boost your ego when you run out of logic, reasoning and facts.



I am summarizing so I don't derail the thread. There is a thread titled 'Whatever' where anything and everything goes. Would you like to discuss there?


----------



## Flight of falcon

CriticalThought said:


> I am summarizing so I don't derail the thread. There is a thread titled 'Whatever' where anything and everything goes. Would you like to discuss there?


No thanks I have better things to do.. and I am sure you do as well.


----------



## Ultima Thule

Flight of falcon said:


> No thanks I have better things to do.. and I am sure you do as well.


Stick to topic bro, this thread is not for political discussion but on confirmation of MKI by our ACM @Flight of falcon

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MastanKhan

RIWWIR said:


> The primary objective, for which Balakot strikes, were planned and carried out by Modi, has already been duly achieved, in an exceptional manner. Sans Balakot, he could never ever even imagine of 303 seats, and that also for BJP alone.
> 
> All the rest is secondary, peripheral and incidental.
> 
> Modi is, no doubt, an ideal and perfect embodiment of the Chanakyan philosophy and thinking.




Hi,

And that is why IO have stated multiple times---. Paf blundered----. It should have struck at the enemy on the very first night---.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Flight of falcon

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> And that is why IO have stated multiple times---. Paf blundered----. It should have struck at the enemy on the very first night---.




I beg to differ sir. We gave them prompt, completely proportional and it turned out embarrassingly brutal response. 
We hit them harder and bolder and We successfully avoided going up the escalation ladder . Starting a war would have been foolish and catastrophic . 

You cannot start a war for one missed air attack. Especially when you have managed to humiliate your enemy by proving your seriousness and capabilities. 
They hit one target, we hit six. They hit trees in a jungle we hit their trees around brigade headquarters. they came at night we went in broad day light. They attacked with eight aircrafts we went with 24. We delivered our packege and they deliver to us Abhi none done. We delivered embarrassment and humiliation they delivered nothing in return. 
Talking about starting a war is easy.... controlling it and suffering cost wise is beyond anyone’s control.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## GumNaam

Flight of falcon said:


> I beg to differ sir. We gave them prompt, completely proportional and it turned out embarrassingly brutal response.
> We hit them harder and bolder and We successfully avoided going up the escalation ladder . Starting a war would have been foolish and catastrophic .
> 
> You cannot start a war for one missed air attack. Especially when you have managed to humiliate your enemy by proving your seriousness and capabilities.
> They hit one target, we hit six. They hit trees in a jungle we hit their trees around brigade headquarters. they came at night we went in broad day light. They attacked with eight aircrafts we went with 24. We delivered our packege and they deliver to us Abhi none done. We delivered embarrassment and humiliation they delivered nothing in return.
> Talking about starting a war is easy.... controlling it and suffering cost wise is beyond anyone’s control.


corrections brother, they hit *zero* targets, we hit six targets. 

And you forgot to mention the 10 posts india lost to Pakistan and had to beg Pakistan Army to stop its artillery and rocket bombardments! 






*this* is what happens when a paper tiger runs into a REAL TIGER!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Psychic

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> And that is why IO have stated multiple times---. Paf blundered----. It should have struck at the enemy on the very first night---.


Doesn't matter if we hit them on the same night or the next day.

However we should have struck hard instead of showing restraint. Had we plastered them on 27th, the morale of the entire Indian nation would've been shattered. You just don't show restraint when you've the upper hand.

War is inevitable, if we thought we'd avoided war then we are living in a fool's paradise...it was better now than late for us.

They have declared their strikes as a success and sold their narrative to their public successfully. 
Bipin escaped unscathed(Physically)---Just imagine if he'd been struck along with other targets. India would have been forced to a war which it's armed forces at that time were not prepared to fight ---since their air defenses appeared to be in a state of total disarray. 
We won't be presented with that opportunity again.

Now, they know our strategy and will learn, adapt and up their game before striking at us again at the time and place of their choosing.

We are over-concerning ourselves with our image as a "responsible state". We are too naive to believe that the world gives a sht. It's a dog's world out there ---the world which applauds the chuckling of the mighty and turns a deaf ear towards the cries of the weak. The world forced Pakistan into taking action against the people who in the past were associated with the Kashmir movement while the same world stays silent on India's brutalities in Kashmir.

This "avoiding escalation" strategy failed in 65 when Ayub refused to take Akhnoor citing the reason that India will be provoked to attack across the international border (which it did regardless); we've committed the same blunder again.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Flight of falcon

Psychic said:


> Doesn't matter if we hit them on the same night or the next day.
> 
> However we should have struck hard instead of showing restraint. Had we plastered them on 27th, the morale of the entire Indian nation would've been shattered. You just don't show restraint when you've the upper hand.
> 
> War is inevitable, if we thought we'd avoided war then we are living in a fool's paradise...it was better now than late for us.
> 
> They have declared their strikes as a success and sold their narrative to their public successfully. Bipin escaped unscathed(Physically)---Just imagine if he'd been struck along with other targets. India would have been forced to a war which it's armed forces at that time were not prepared to fight since their air defenses appeared to be in a state of total disarray. We won't be presented with that opportunity again.
> 
> Now, they know our strategy and will learn, adapt and up their game before striking at us again at the time and place of their choosing.
> 
> We are over-concerning ourselves with our image as a "responsible state". We are too naive to believe that the world gives a sht. It's a dog's world out there ---the world which applauds the chuckling of the mighty and turns a deaf ear towards the cries of the weak. The world forced Pakistan into taking action against the people who in the past were associated with the Kashmir movement while the same world stays silent on India's brutalities in Kashmir.
> 
> This "avoiding escalation" strategy failed in 65 when Ayub refused to take Akhnoor citing the reason that India will be provoked to attack across the international border (which it did regardless); we've committed the same blunder again.




I am not sure about why some people are obsessed with starting the war. I am Uber patriotic but I fear war. Once you go down that slippery slope there are too many unknowns. 

I feel we did well without starting something big over a FAILEd airstrike. 

Yes Modi took political advantage by claiming 300 dead and F16 shot down but the entire world saw the incompetence of Indian armed forces and the lie they were forced to tow and defend. This itself is very humiliating for a semi professional force. 
In this day and age of satellite , drones and technology Indians are forced to prove their claim by quoting a ISPR statement and some computer generated drawings on the paper. 
Just for a second think about how stupid this sounds .

Indian forces were left to defend Modi created claims with nothing more than few computer generated drawings and a piece of missile. 
I personally believe we cannot win any war against India. At best We will bruise each other equally but our economy will shackle us and push us back decades. At worse we will go down the nuclear path which will be a disaster for everyone in the world .

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Psychic

Flight of falcon said:


> I am not sure about why some people are obsessed with starting the war. I am Uber patriotic but I fear war. Once you go down that slippery slope there are too many unknowns.
> 
> I feel we did well without starting something big over a FAILEd airstrike.
> 
> Yes Modi took political advantage by claiming 300 dead and F16 shot down but the entire world saw the incompetence of Indian armed forces and the lie they were forced to tow and defend. This itself is very humiliating for a semi professional force.
> In this day and age of satellite , drones and technology Indians are forced to prove their claim by quoting a ISPR statement and some computer generated drawings on the paper.
> Just for a second think about how stupid this sounds .
> 
> Indian forces were left to defend Modi created claims with nothing more than few computer generated drawings and a piece of missile.
> I personally believe we cannot win any war against India. At best We will bruise each other equally but our economy will shackle us and push us back decades. At worse we will go down the nuclear path which will be a disaster for everyone in the world .


Would have agreed with you had our opponent been not India but some other country.

The mad dog they've elected will go to war sooner or later.

He dared to attack a nuclear country---you can't counter insanity with restraint. Many people like yourself would have even argued against the idea of conducting retaliatory strikes had they not taken place---citing the same reason as yours that it could send us back decades.



Flight of falcon said:


> I am not sure about why some people are obsessed with starting the war.


What PAF did on 27th also had the ingredients to start a war.

One can only speculate what would've happened had IAF's munitions hit their intended target and cause casualties. The reaction of PAF would have been the same which I opined should have been on 27th. Now upon whom you would've pinned the blame for starting a war then?

There were many voices against PAF's retaliation before it happened arguing that it could lead to a full scale war.

Now with NaMo re-elected, let's see what he does after IAF rectifies it's errors.

Reactions: Like Like:

1


----------



## SIPRA

Flight of falcon said:


> I am not sure about why some people are obsessed with starting the war. I am Uber patriotic but I fear war. Once you go down that slippery slope there are too many unknowns.
> 
> I feel we did well without starting something big over a FAILEd airstrike.
> 
> Yes Modi took political advantage by claiming 300 dead and F16 shot down but the entire world saw the incompetence of Indian armed forces and the lie they were forced to tow and defend. This itself is very humiliating for a semi professional force.
> In this day and age of satellite , drones and technology Indians are forced to prove their claim by quoting a ISPR statement and some computer generated drawings on the paper.
> Just for a second think about how stupid this sounds .
> 
> Indian forces were left to defend Modi created claims with nothing more than few computer generated drawings and a piece of missile.
> I personally believe we cannot win any war against India. At best We will bruise each other equally but our economy will shackle us and push us back decades. At worse we will go down the nuclear path which will be a disaster for everyone in the world .



You are perfectly right. People, suggesting a more aggressive path for Pakistan against India, totally fail to recognize our inherent and glare weaknesses in virtually every sphere of statehood including political, economic, technological, military and diplomatic. I rather believe that Pakistan's response was far more aggressive than what its circumstances permitted.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Armchair

Flight of falcon said:


> I beg to differ sir. We gave them prompt, completely proportional and it turned out embarrassingly brutal response.
> We hit them harder and bolder and We successfully avoided going up the escalation ladder . Starting a war would have been foolish and catastrophic .
> 
> You cannot start a war for one missed air attack. Especially when you have managed to humiliate your enemy by proving your seriousness and capabilities.
> They hit one target, we hit six. They hit trees in a jungle we hit their trees around brigade headquarters. they came at night we went in broad day light. They attacked with eight aircrafts we went with 24. We delivered our packege and they deliver to us Abhi none done. We delivered embarrassment and humiliation they delivered nothing in return.
> Talking about starting a war is easy.... controlling it and suffering cost wise is beyond anyone’s control.



We won a military tactical battle, no doubt. They won the political war at home. That's what the Pak military didn't understand / couldn't understand. They don't have the skill set to understand it.

India will not bother us for the next 2 years. Modi will spend time setting his house in order, IAF will rebuild itself with Rafales. Meanwhile, Iran will be turned into cinders by the US. 

The sane strategic thing to do is to spend this time:

1. Rebuilding our economy and infrastructure
2. Destroying the internal enemies such as BLA, PTM and TTP remnants
3. Building strategic depth for long term sustainability, via a new "Great Game" in Afghanistan - a new FATA-like tribal belt on the borders of Pakistan.
4. Inducting whatever weapons we can at a steady pace - whether T-90s from Russia or MiG-35s, or J-10s or submarines, or 54As, or whatever we can get our hands on. Even more surplus Italian / European equipment and French Mirage III/Vs.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## IFB

RIWWIR said:


> You are somewhat right; but, I think that, it is not only a matter of knowledge, but also of *objectivity in analysis. For carrying out a true analysis, it is necessary to overcome, as far as possible, one's prejudices, by conscious effort;* though a human being can never be fully free of certain biases.



My education (more like the lack of it lol) does not allow me to phrase words so eloquently like you...but the bolded part is so spot on.



RIWWIR said:


> I have observed that there are many posters on PDF, *who appear* to be very educated, knowledgeable and intelligent, from their language, communication skills and argumentation. But, to my mind, they inadvertently arrive at wrong conclusions, owing primarily to their inbuilt prejudices, which they are unable to control somehow.



sir they indeed *are *highly educated, knowledgeable and intelligent...this includes some think tank members as well in this very forum...many are so full of hate that its almost impossible to have a decent conversation with them.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SIPRA

IFB said:


> My education (more like the lack of it lol) does not allow me to phrase words so eloquently like you...but the bolded part is so spot on.
> 
> sir they indeed *are *highly educated, knowledgeable and intelligent...this includes some think tank members as well in this very forum...many are so full of hate that its almost impossible to have a decent conversation with them.



For the first part, I don't think that you lack the communication skills, in any way. I have read many of your posts and they are very illuminating. Thanks, any way. Allah aap ko khush rakhay.

Hatred is also a product of extreme prejudices. It has not much to do with intelligence and education. Rather, these faculties sometimes pronounce the intensity of prejudice and consequent hatred.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## MastanKhan

Psychic said:


> Doesn't matter if we hit them on the same night or the next day.
> 
> However we should have struck hard instead of showing restraint. Had we plastered them on 27th, the morale of the entire Indian nation would've been shattered. You just don't show restraint when you've the upper hand.
> 
> War is inevitable, if we thought we'd avoided war then we are living in a fool's paradise...it was better now than late for us.
> 
> They have declared their strikes as a success and sold their narrative to their public successfully.
> Bipin escaped unscathed(Physically)---Just imagine if he'd been struck along with other targets. India would have been forced to a war which it's armed forces at that time were not prepared to fight ---since their air defenses appeared to be in a state of total disarray.
> We won't be presented with that opportunity again.
> 
> Now, they know our strategy and will learn, adapt and up their game before striking at us again at the time and place of their choosing.
> 
> We are over-concerning ourselves with our image as a "responsible state". We are too naive to believe that the world gives a sht. It's a dog's world out there ---the world which applauds the chuckling of the mighty and turns a deaf ear towards the cries of the weak. The world forced Pakistan into taking action against the people who in the past were associated with the Kashmir movement while the same world stays silent on India's brutalities in Kashmir.
> 
> This "avoiding escalation" strategy failed in 65 when Ayub refused to take Akhnoor citing the reason that India will be provoked to attack across the international border (which it did regardless); we've committed the same blunder again.



Hi,

Here is why you don't let go of the 'first time'---. It was already announced---The targeted areas were also mostly known---. You made the enemy feel brave---they completed their targeted goal and then let their media do the rest---.

Paf tried to play the old trick---' we escorted the enemy out of our borders '---.

If it had not been for public and internal outrage---Paf generals were happy of not doing anything else---.

This reaction also showed that the Paf had decidedly become a 'defensive' force.

Now---we both agree on the second day strike---. The Paf had the opportunity to pummel the enemy when it was down---.

Out of COWARDICE---the generals decided to let the biggest prize of them escape as well---the submarine---.

That was a despicable decision by the commander in chief Gen Bajwa---.

The reaction also showed was that the Paf was LOW IN NUMBERS of frontline fighters---.

There are idiots on this defense forum who have claimed the J10's bring nothing to the table---.

For those fools---the J10 brings NUMBERS to the table---which were woefully low on the 26th & 27th---.

The number of frontline fighters in Paf inventory are below the MINIMUM THRESHOLD level---. That number needs to be between 350 + 100 plus mirage 3/5's.



Flight of falcon said:


> I beg to differ sir. We gave them prompt, completely proportional and it turned out embarrassingly brutal response.
> We hit them harder and bolder and We successfully avoided going up the escalation ladder . Starting a war would have been foolish and catastrophic .
> 
> You cannot start a war for one missed air attack. Especially when you have managed to humiliate your enemy by proving your seriousness and capabilities.
> They hit one target, we hit six. They hit trees in a jungle we hit their trees around brigade headquarters. they came at night we went in broad day light. They attacked with eight aircrafts we went with 24. We delivered our packege and they deliver to us Abhi none done. We delivered embarrassment and humiliation they delivered nothing in return.
> Talking about starting a war is easy.... controlling it and suffering cost wise is beyond anyone’s control.



Hi,

young man---this is war---. In war---when you have the chance---you smash the enemy down to the max---.

This is not a high school fight when you can claim of proportional response and be happy with it---.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Flight of falcon

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Here is why you don't let go of the 'first time'---. It was already announced---The targeted areas were also mostly known---. You made the enemy feel brave---they completed their targeted goal and then let their media do the rest---.
> 
> Paf tried to play the old trick---' we escorted the enemy out of our borders '---.
> 
> If it had not been for public and internal outrage---Paf generals were happy of not doing anything else---.
> 
> This reaction also showed that the Paf had decidedly become a 'defensive' force.
> 
> Now---we both agree on the second day strike---. The Paf had the opportunity to pummel the enemy when it was down---.
> 
> Out of COWARDICE---the generals decided to let the biggest prize of them escape as well---the submarine---.
> 
> That was a despicable decision by the commander in chief Gen Bajwa---.
> 
> The reaction also showed was that the Paf was LOW IN NUMBERS of frontline fighters---.
> 
> There are idiots on this defense forum who have claimed the J10's bring nothing to the table---.
> 
> For those fools---the J10 brings NUMBERS to the table---which were woefully low on the 26th & 27th---.
> 
> The number of frontline fighters in Paf inventory are below the MINIMUM THRESHOLD level---. That number needs to be between 350 + 100 plus mirage 3/5's.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> young man---this is war---. In war---when you have the chance---you smash the enemy down to the max---.
> 
> This is not a high school fight when you can claim of proportional response and be happy with it---.





All I can say is that I hope and pray that you are not in any decision making position in Pakistan. 
War is not started and fought based on a single missed airstrike. We are not America and perhaps that’s exactly what our enemy wanted. To over react and start something bigger than what we can handle.
You sitting on a chair somewhere typing away wanted a war that we cannot afford and defenietly cannot win? 
The whole world wants to see us fail. This would not be a war against India .... it would be against Pakistan vs rest of the world ( minus hand full of countries). 
I am very proud of our generals .... they are not cowards nor foolish. They study and judge the situation and then respond appropriately. We have performed exceptionally well in fight against terrorism and holding off India. 

India wants to provoke us so they can cry in front of the world and make our case as aggressors .
Forget who attacked first. We are at extremely delicate time in our history economically. If the economic turn around succeeds it will put Pakistan on a path to long term growth and away from the clutches of loans. This is exactly what India wants to fail us in. Start a useless war and sink what ever we have left and get the country pushed back to stone ages. 
Modi staged the whole drama for his retarded nation. They danced, drank, ate malai kofta, made a Bollywood movie , sang songs and assured each other they are the super power and went home leaving their stench and vote for Modi.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## SIPRA

Flight of falcon said:


> All I can say is that I hope and pray that you are not in any decision making position in Pakistan.
> War is not started and fought based on a single missed airstrike. We are not America and perhaps that’s exactly what our enemy wanted. To over react and start something bigger than what we can handle.
> You sitting on a chair somewhere typing away wanted a war that we cannot afford and defenietly cannot win?
> The whole world wants to see us fail. This would not be a war against India .... it would be against Pakistan vs rest of the world ( minus hand full of countries).
> I am very proud of our generals .... they are not cowards nor foolish. They study and judge the situation and then respond appropriately. We have performed exceptionally well in fight against terrorism and holding off India.
> 
> India wants to provoke us so they can cry in front of the world and make our case as aggressors .
> Forget who attacked first. We are at extremely delicate time in our history economically. If the economic turn around succeeds it will put Pakistan on a path to long term growth and away from the clutches of loans. This is exactly what India wants to fail us in. Start a useless war and sink what ever we have left and get the country pushed back to stone ages.
> Modi staged the whole drama for his retarded nation. They danced, drank, ate malai kofta, made a Bollywood movie , sang songs and assured each other they are the super power and went home leaving their stench and vote for Modi.



Very sane opinion, and well expressed, as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hayreddin

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> Here is why you don't let go of the 'first time'---. It was already announced---The targeted areas were also mostly known---. You made the enemy feel brave---they completed their targeted goal and then let their media do the rest---.
> 
> Paf tried to play the old trick---' we escorted the enemy out of our borders '---.
> 
> If it had not been for public and internal outrage---Paf generals were happy of not doing anything else---.
> 
> This reaction also showed that the Paf had decidedly become a 'defensive' force.
> 
> Now---we both agree on the second day strike---. The Paf had the opportunity to pummel the enemy when it was down---.
> 
> Out of COWARDICE---the generals decided to let the biggest prize of them escape as well---the submarine---.
> 
> That was a despicable decision by the commander in chief Gen Bajwa---.
> 
> The reaction also showed was that the Paf was LOW IN NUMBERS of frontline fighters---.
> 
> There are idiots on this defense forum who have claimed the J10's bring nothing to the table---.
> 
> For those fools---the J10 brings NUMBERS to the table---which were woefully low on the 26th & 27th---.
> 
> The number of frontline fighters in Paf inventory are below the MINIMUM THRESHOLD level---. That number needs to be between 350 + 100 plus mirage 3/5's.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> young man---this is war---. In war---when you have the chance---you smash the enemy down to the max---.
> 
> This is not a high school fight when you can claim of proportional response and be happy with it---.



On 26 paf could not intercepted , its not like they " didn"t " . And it proved blessing in disguise , 6 su30mki accompanied by mig2k crossed loc in bad weather condition. If IAF wld have been intercepted there wld loss from both sides but paf losses wld have been more .Luckily IAF couldnt achieve ground targets .
You know what the very next day our assets were airborne in "knee jerk reaction" but mission was postponed , and again lucky day for paf as radars shown iaf assets on various border locations with hige numbers of 24 , 16, 18 ...
We must appreciate paf made operation swift retot a perfect plan next day on 27 and iaf lost the game that day completly .
I strongly agree with your point that we are extremely low numbers and need j10c or EF type jet in our inventory .
Letting Submarine go was not a coward act but very wise decision not let things get escalated , Pakistan is not in a postion to sustain a full fledge war at the moment and letting abhi nandan go was also timely decision to cool down things for a moment . 
Psychological pressure on Indian armed forces is enormous after all this lost . IAF lost jets and chopper . IA lost posts and huge number of soldiers . IN submarine was locked . But for pak armed forces it was a win win siuation . So stoping game here was wise instead of letting it continue and they could have turn the table in their favor .

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Shane

CriticalThought said:


> The problem with letting the enemy go is that he will regroup and reorganize based on newfound insight into your abilities.


Yes, but only if you think that is what happened that we had them in crosshairs like sitting ducks for slaughter but we choose not to fire...etc etc, but letting go is a serious simplification and entirely based on playing down your adversary, not a good idea, as you advised @RIWWIR yourself.


CriticalThought said:


> Do not overestimate yourself and do not underestimate the enemy.



To put things in perspective, if one's delta can out run a scramble then so can the other's. That's why both sides used mirages in turn to good effect.

As for the aerial skirmish of 27th, it was not about giving new insight into your abilities, that was unavoidable after 26th, but it was more about deliberately creating a credible aerial deterrent against a belligerent enemy unreasonably high on its own high-tech, Air superiority asset's projected capabilities.

To date, the aerial deterrent stands justified.

PAF got the better of IAF as the latter choose to persue the aggressors and paid dearly for getting caught in PAF's trap, something that PAF had managed to avoid a day earlier.

Both Air Forces got the chance to learn perticular tactics, capabilities, strengths and weaknesses but in a specific scenario as both sides executed some specific tactical strategies during their time of choosing. So who is stopping both sides to improve and improvise, induct and specialize?

Unless an all out war, that is how it works both ways, in a tit for tat Air skirmish.

There is a part two of this post about Brahmos but I will post it later to avoid a lengthy post.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## masterchief_mirza

Shane said:


> Yes, but only if you think that is what happened that we had them in crosshairs like sitting ducks for slaughter but we choose not to fire...etc etc, but letting go is a serious simplification and entirely based on playing down your adversary, not a good idea, as you advised @RIWWIR yourself.
> 
> 
> To put things in perspective, if one's delta can out run a scramble then so can the other's. That's why both sides used mirages in turn to good effect.
> 
> As for the aerial skirmish of 27th, it was not about giving new insight into your abilities, that was unavoidable after 26th, but it was more about deliberately creating a credible aerial deterrent against a belligerent enemy unreasonably high on its own high-tech, Air superiority asset's projected capabilities.
> 
> To date, the aerial deterrent stands justified.
> 
> PAF got the better of IAF as the latter choose to persue the aggressors and paid dearly for getting caught in PAF's trap, something that PAF had managed to avoid a day earlier.
> 
> Both Air Forces got the chance to learn perticular tactics, capabilities, strengths and weaknesses but in a specific scenario as both sides executed some specific tactical strategies during their time of choosing. So who is stopping both sides to improve and improvise, induct and specialize?
> 
> Unless an all out war, that is how it works both ways, in a tit for tat Air skirmish.
> 
> There is a part two of this post about Brahmos but I will post it later to avoid a lengthy post.



Well reasoned imho. No course of action was clear cut for Pak but on balance, the safe approach we adopted was marginally favourable over a provocation into all out war. Several members have mentioned that holding back on a fully armed rampage has gotten us nowhere in the past and India has attacked us all the same regardless, to which the question arises, where is the evidence that the all out rampage will result in a different eventual outcome? When in Pak's history have we tried this Russian roulette type of gamble, that we can assume it would work today? Pearl Harbour worked well for the Japs did it? Please recall also that the Americans willingly lured the Jap Imperial forces into attacking Pearl Harbour, knowing that the temporary devastation would eventually be absorbed and reversed due to American superiority in terms of geography, industry, politics, technology and financial resources, all in all not too dissimilar to what may be the case if PAF decided to decimate India for a single day in the present.

The real loss imho is the erosion of our initial informational, propaganda and political advantage. We could have fleeced that for all it was worth but the aces we held early on in that particular field was overturned by Indian relentless propaganda overdrive and our own informational surrender domestically and internatonally.

Instead of selfies with bits of debris, we could have exposed India as a false flagged, as an aggressor and as an abuser of Kashmiris and as a purveyor of terrorism within Pak but we contrived to miss that opportunity.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Shane

masterchief_mirza said:


> Please recall also that the Americans willingly lured the Jap Imperial forces into attacking Pearl Harbour, knowing that the temporary devastation would eventually be absorbed and reversed due to American superiority in terms of geography, industry, politics, technology and financial resources, all in all not too dissimilar to what may be the case if PAF decided to decimate India for a single day in the present.


Thank you for your reply.

While the Indian strike was a clear provocation and staged to achive political mileage at home, it was also an attempt to try to tick other boxes as added benefit in the longer run.

To the Indian leadership was looking to score a landslide in elections over Balakot strike, it looked like a win win situation no matter the response from Pakistan but all their designs were foiled to their bewilderment:


India wanted to establish Aerial Strike Superiority - Foiled.
India wanted Pakistan to accept strike beyond LOC - Foiled.

India wanted to establish Air Superiority - Foiled.
India wanted Pakistan to surrender its aerial sovereignty - Foiled.
India wanted the world to blame Pakistan as the real agressor - Foiled.
India wanted the world to witness Pakistan's defeat - Foiled.


That Modi benefitted from the strike to gain political mileage at home, is no surprise due to the delusional - high on itself, Indian nation led by equally delusional Hindutwa leadership.

That Pakistan ended up foiling the Indian attempt to tick any boxes but completely turned the tables against India is a - hither to unknown catastrophe - for Indian designs.

The pompous, mediocre minded Gujrati Butcher and IAF stands shell shocked to this day. The mad man brags embarrassing cloudy details, while crying...if only we had Rafael...yet the delusional Indian cheers on...much to the bemusement of the rest of the world.

The Japs vs US analagy is slightly off as the Japs did not posses any Nuclear deterrent like the substantial Nuclear arsnel we have in stock for good reason...but more about it later in another post as Indians may well be sneaking towards another option derived from a similar strategy that Russians prepaired for the US.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## CriticalThought

Shane said:


> Yes, but only if you think that is what happened that we had them in crosshairs like sitting ducks for slaughter but we choose not to fire...etc etc, but letting go is a serious simplification and entirely based on playing down your adversary, not a good idea, as you advised @RIWWIR yourself.
> 
> 
> To put things in perspective, if one's delta can out run a scramble then so can the other's. That's why both sides used mirages in turn to good effect.
> 
> As for the aerial skirmish of 27th, it was not about giving new insight into your abilities, that was unavoidable after 26th, but it was more about deliberately creating a credible aerial deterrent against a belligerent enemy unreasonably high on its own high-tech, Air superiority asset's projected capabilities.
> 
> To date, the aerial deterrent stands justified.
> 
> PAF got the better of IAF as the latter choose to persue the aggressors and paid dearly for getting caught in PAF's trap, something that PAF had managed to avoid a day earlier.
> 
> Both Air Forces got the chance to learn perticular tactics, capabilities, strengths and weaknesses but in a specific scenario as both sides executed some specific tactical strategies during their time of choosing. So who is stopping both sides to improve and improvise, induct and specialize?
> 
> Unless an all out war, that is how it works both ways, in a tit for tat Air skirmish.
> 
> There is a part two of this post about Brahmos but I will post it later to avoid a lengthy post.



First if all, when I decry letting the enemy go, I am not advocating an all out war. If you read my posts since Feb 27 I have been advocating a firm diplomatic stance to make the world recognize Indian belligerence and to penalize it. This is a failure at the topmost levels of our leadership.

Second, I was going to write an article, Insha Allah, explaining just how much you give away in any skirmish and why ROEs need to be updated. Look out for it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Psychic

MastanKhan said:


> Here is why you don't let go of the 'first time'---. It was already announced---The targeted areas were also mostly known---. You made the enemy feel brave---they completed their targeted goal and then let their media do the rest-


I am of the opinion that their munitions missed because of some minor technical error. They missed their intended target by less than a kilometer. And that was a madrassa full of children at that time. There was a reason why they announced 300 casualties the very first day because they were expecting that many casualties.

Had their munitions scored bullseye, our doves of peace would have asked us to show restraint to avoid total war? I wonder.



MastanKhan said:


> Now---we both agree on the second day strike---. The Paf had the opportunity to pummel the enemy when it was down---.
> 
> Out of COWARDICE---the generals decided to let the biggest prize of them escape as well---the submarine---.
> 
> That was a despicable decision by the commander in chief Gen Bajwa---.


Exactly.
But instead of pummeling them to ground, we let the prey go. Had we taken out 8-10 frontline aircraft when we had them jammed and spoofed, we would've gained such an advantage already over our beaten and demoralized opponent which would've helped us to inflict further defeats had they dared to make this allout war (which they wouldn't have---they would have run to the US and world to intervene and stop)


MastanKhan said:


> The reaction also showed was that the Paf was LOW IN NUMBERS of frontline fighters---.
> 
> There are idiots on this defense forum who have claimed the J10's bring nothing to the table---.
> 
> For those fools---the J10 brings NUMBERS to the table---which were woefully low on the 26th & 27th---.
> 
> The number of frontline fighters in Paf inventory are below the MINIMUM THRESHOLD level---. That number needs to be between 350 + 100 plus mirage 3/5's.


They have the money for eight subs but not for a couple squardons of J-10s with PL-15s.

Then they also spend tons of money on stupid luxuries of theirs---then they asked the poor or middle class to stop complaining about lack of numbers and start paying taxes(As if they make bucketloads of money like trader class)

They forget that defence comes first and foremost. We'd rather eat a little less than become the Gaza of South Asia.


MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> young man---this is war---. In war---when you have the chance---you smash the enemy down to the max---.
> 
> This is not a high school fight when you can claim of proportional response and be happy with it---.


As I said it earlier;
There were many voices against PAF's retaliation before it happened arguing that it could lead to a full scale war.

Then this post which suggested the exact same thing that we should've shown even more restraint.


RIWWIR said:


> I rather believe that Pakistan's response was far more aggressive than what its circumstances permitted.





CriticalThought said:


> I have been advocating a firm diplomatic stance to make the world recognize Indian belligerence and to penalize it. This is a failure at the topmost levels of our leadership.


We got nothing. 

Our naive posters here brag about IAF's humiliation by NYT and other international newspapers while totally ignoring the fact that the same world after Feb 27th, twisted our arm and forced us to take action against the people who, in the past were associated with Kashmir freedom movement---

pdf fanboys are content that IAF made itself look like a joker but what really matters in terms of substance is that----- India was assured by the world that Pakistan will be forced to take action against "terrorism"---

the world didn't care to give a statement or two about the resolution of Kashmir issue which was the root cause of whatever had happened. 

Let pdf fanboys keep braging about the "humliation" of IAF while we were forced to appease India by the same world which stayed silent over India's blatant aggression and jumped in once IAF got slapped the next day.



CriticalThought said:


> Second, I was going to write an article, Insha Allah, explaining just how much you give away in any skirmish and why ROEs need to be updated. Look out for it.


IAF had displayed a very different mindset in 71 as compared to 65---They learned from their mistakes. PAF still gave a good account but we musn't forget that those were good old days of dogfighting where pilot skill and intelligent asset placement played a crucial role. Now, electronics and technology can turn the best topgun of the world to a blind sitting duck taken out with a bvr coming out of nowhere.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Shane

I don't disagree with some of your posts on this thread but was only trying to debate a different perspective than the exception in my earlier post.

Moving onward towards part 2...



CriticalThought said:


> In India's case, this is the Su-30 + Brahmos combination which I suspect will be launched with full cooperation of the Western suppliers of radars and AEWACS to Pakistan.



I agree with you that India may choose Brahmos to attack Pakistan. Our response but more than that, our readiness needs to be well coordinated and coherent across all spheres of armed and strategic forces. India may be looking to improvise its strategic doctrine in case of an all out war.

I think there are two factors that give some edge to a SU-30 + brahmos combination as a first strike weapon. As opposed to ground or sea based Brahmos launch platforms, the Aerial version does look to posses slight edge in: Element of surprise due to even less time to strike inland after launch and a deeper strike capability.

Brahmos, if used in numbers, can make up for the possible short commings of Indigenous - less reliable and risky Indian BMs arsenel.

What I'm trying to say is that a Brahmos in whatever Air, ground or sea launch version, should be considered a clear step up the escalation ladder towards an all out nuclear war. This should be made clear by Pakistan to the Indians in no uncertain manner - use of Brahmos means Nuclear war.

There is no doubt that Brahmos is a formidable supersonic weapon. The Chinese were working on a similar Supersonic CM CX-1 or HD-1 also discussed by @Windjammer in another thread. Pakistan should fast track it or a similar supersonic option to equal the odds and should be able to throw the Chinese version of the Russian tech back at the indians while keeping the option open for using Babur and Raad as needed.



CriticalThought said:


> In India's case, this is the Su-30 + Brahmos combination which I suspect will be launched with full cooperation of the Western suppliers of radars and AEWACS to Pakistan.


Your other notion about western support to India is more sobering for the Air Force.

Do you think US and Lockheed will be of much help to India against their own PAF F16s ? vs Russian or French jets if India does not go for F-21 or F18, which looks like it won't as India wants more Rafael.

Europeans on the other hand in Dasault, BAE and SAAB etc look to be more involved in India and inclined to help along with the Russians and obviously Israelis.

Pakistani Erieye capabilities may have already been shared and known but Pakistan's EW equipment has US, Italian, Chinese and some other diverse and un-disclosed origins with indigenous tweeks as well, so I doubt that the Indians will get around it entirely, much to their dismay, despite western help.

Whatever the strategy and countermeasures they come up with, It shall still be a huge gamble on their part despite the knowledge gathered after the Feb skirmish.

I think I will post more about how India may be looking to improvise its strategic doctrine.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## CriticalThought

Shane said:


> I don't disagree with some of your posts on this thread but was only trying to debate a different perspective than the exception in my earlier post.
> 
> Moving onward towards part 2...
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you that India may choose Brahmos to attack Pakistan. Our response but more than that, our readiness needs to be well coordinated and coherent across all spheres of armed and strategic forces. India may be looking to improvise its strategic doctrine in case of an all out war.
> 
> I think there are two factors that give some edge to a SU-30 + brahmos combination as a first strike weapon. As opposed to ground or sea based Brahmos launch platforms, the Aerial version does look to posses slight edge in: Element of surprise due to even less time to strike inland after launch and a deeper strike capability.
> 
> Brahmos, if used in numbers, can make up for the possible short commings of Indigenous - less reliable and risky Indian BMs arsenel.
> 
> What I'm trying to say is that a Brahmos in whatever Air, ground or sea launch version, should be considered a clear step up the escalation ladder towards an all out nuclear war. This should be made clear by Pakistan to the Indians in no uncertain manner - use of Brahmos means Nuclear war.
> 
> There is no doubt that Brahmos is a formidable supersonic weapon. The Chinese were working on a similar Supersonic CM CX-1 or HD-1 also discussed by @Windjammer in another thread. Pakistan should fast track it or a similar supersonic option to equal the odds and should be able to throw the Chinese version of the Russian tech back at the indians while keeping the option open for using Babur and Raad as needed.
> 
> 
> Your other notion about western support to India is more sobering for the Air Force.
> 
> Do you think US and Lockheed will be of much help to India against their own PAF F16s ? vs Russian or French jets if India does not go for F-21 or F18, which looks like it won't as India wants more Rafael.
> 
> Europeans on the other hand in Dasault, BAE and SAAB etc look to be more involved in India and inclined to help along with the Russians and obviously Israelis.
> 
> Pakistani Erieye capabilities may have already been shared and known but Pakistan's EW equipment has US, Italian, Chinese and some other diverse and un-disclosed origins with indigenous tweeks as well, so I doubt that the Indians will get around it entirely, much to their dismay, despite western help.
> 
> Whatever the strategy and countermeasures they come up with, It shall still be a huge gamble on their part despite the knowledge gathered after the Feb skirmish.
> 
> I think I will post more about how India may be looking to improvise its strategic doctrine.



Brahmos by itself can be dealt with. It's the combination of Western support, rooting of Western supplied electronic equipment, and destruction of defences and infrastructure that has me worried. The real question is, are our military planners even prepared psychologically and mentally to discuss and prepare for such a scenario? Our very doctrine is flawed because we view India as an independent enemy working without material support from Western Allies. This battle is more of vision, foresight, wisdom, cunning, and perceptiveness. We have lame, ineffective leaders who are unable to take a strong stand on world forums. More than that, they seem ever ready to demean, ridicule, and denigrate Pakistan. What kind of leaders go around the world telling people we have terrorists in the country? What kind of leaders are dying to surpass their masters in declaring we have terrorist organizations in the country? During Musharraf's regime, there was talk about becoming the 51st state of the United States. These traitors are still on important posts and this worries me. I have no confidence in Imran Khan and Qamar Javed Bajwa. Increasingly, I am seeing Western agenda being rolled out systematically. The country is basically run by agents coming in from the West. They need a handful of key Generals at the top in their pockets and the capitulation is complete. The Su-30 and Brahmos option comes into play when this plan fails. Is our top leadership prepared if and when such an eventuality arises?

From a purely technical point of view, Pak military forces have no defence against Brahmos today. We are not able to withstand a saturation strike and respond with precision and expedience. Anyway, we have derailed the thread too far already. I suggest further discussion be continued on a more relevant thread.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Shane

Part 3, The Brahmos + S400 combination the real threat, and the possible improvisation in Indian strategic doctrine.

Are the extremist Indian leadership looking to adopt a version of Soviet first and third strike doctrine or strategy against Pakistan by looking towards deploying S400 defence umbrella along with an all out saturated offense strategy against our strategic assets?

(Here is an interesting read on the topic of the soviet strategy:https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP87M00539R001001350032-4.pdf)

There is no doubt that India is desperately looking to avenge its bloodied nose at the hands of PAF since the 27th but they are not that desperate to start an all out war but any miscalculation on either side may end up being just that.

So who is working towards a more survivable outcome? If India is then so should Pakistan do whatever it can to counter it.

They might again try another balakot style strike But until the integration of S400 and Rafael in meaningful numbers, Indians cannot even afford to think about such an adventure.

Meanwhile, Pakistan must be at work too. We should keep enhancing our defence and strike capabilities to keep the nuclear detterent valid as much as possible.


This is why we need to induct CX-1 or HD-1 or similar Supersonic Cruise Missile and Aerial as well as Submarine platforms that can launch it.
This is why we need to work towards an anti missile shield capable of thwarting Indian missile attacks.
This is why we need to make more use of the mountains of Baluchistan and Northern Areas for our strategic assets.

All out war is too desperate a notion at any time but the key for Pakistan to stop a belligerent India from any adventurism and to even think it is just our bluff and to keep them from trying to challenge it...To make the best use of the time at hand before India acquires and integrates the tools of war it is busy accumulating.... is to keep the fingers on the Nuclear Strike button, so to speak but more importantly... work towards a more formidable, operationally and strategically spread out and diverse capabilty in view to deter the new Indian strategy and render it Ineffective.

This why @masterchief_mirza a nuclear armed Pakistan has better and more option to in sha Allah prevail against India where the Japs failed against the US.



CriticalThought said:


> I was going to write an article, Insha Allah, explaining just how much you give away in any skirmish and why ROEs need to be updated. Look out for it.



Kindly do tag me when you do. I eagerly await your article about the obvious needs for changing aerial rules of engagement ROEs since the region long became an active BVR, Standoff weapons theater. It will be all the more interesting when both sides deploy VLRAAM.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Telescopic Sight

Windjammer said:


> And it has squarely put the IAF on the back foot and sent the planners back to the drawing board.
> Ask anyone from India if the IAF aircraft are venturing anywhere near the LOC.



I have asked. Nothing has changed from the IAF side. Business as usual.
On the other hand in the PAF.....Closed airspace, dispersed F-16's, leaves cancelled, weddings postponed....
Speaks volumes on who is on the back foot.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ultima Thule

Telescopic Sight said:


> I have asked. Nothing has changed from the IAF side. Business as usual.
> On the other hand in the PAF.....Closed airspace, dispersed F-16's, leaves cancelled, weddings postponed....
> Speaks volumes on who is on the back foot.


 what the fcuk you talking about, everything is nomal in Pakistan, closed airspace is only for india, dispersed f-16 doesn't mens Paf is on the back foot, its tactics of up coming war @Telescopic Sight

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HawkEye27

Telescopic Sight said:


> I have asked. Nothing has changed from the IAF side. Business as usual.
> On the other hand in the PAF.....Closed airspace, dispersed F-16's, leaves cancelled, weddings postponed....
> Speaks volumes on who is on the back foot.



Wah bhaiya wah!!! They moved their whole IAF to forward bases just like us but you have to just blame us???

I can assure you many officers had their weddings in April. So chill out.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zulfiqar

pakistanipower said:


> what the fcuk you talking about, everything is nomal in Pakistan, closed airspace is only for india, dispersed f-16 doesn't mens Paf is on the back foot, its tactics of up coming war @Telescopic Sight



Yes we dispersed some F-16s as far as turkey.

We will disperse more aircrafts (probably JF-17s) to turkey in June as well just to be on the safe side.

Corridor is being closed for flights to and from India. Why should we give economic benefit to India. They can take the long way to Afghanistan and other countries and spend precious fuel.


----------



## Flight of falcon

Telescopic Sight said:


> I have asked. Nothing has changed from the IAF side. Business as usual.
> On the other hand in the PAF.....Closed airspace, dispersed F-16's, leaves cancelled, weddings postponed....
> Speaks volumes on who is on the back foot.



Seriously and this is being the proof of being on backfoot?
When you have a coward living next door who attacks you when it’s cloudy then you have to be careful. Everything is normal in Pakistan. And check your facts.... airspace is closed for Indian planes. Here is the result ... 300 caror loss for air Indian alone in two months. That will be 1800 caror loss in one year for financially struggling airline. Maybe Modi will cause air India to go bankrupt and wipe off thousands of jobs which will add to 45 year high unemployment in India. Wonder when will Indians make a movie on this and have a dance number too.


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/m.busin...-pakistan-airspace-restrictions/1/341498.html


----------



## Ultima Thule

Zulfiqar said:


> Corridor is being closed for flights to and from India. Why should we give economic benefit to India. They can take the long way to Afghanistan and other countries and spend precious fuel.


There is threats that international passenger flight coming from India will sabotage by India and India is blame for Pakistan @Zulfiqar

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zulfiqar

pakistanipower said:


> There is threats that international passenger flight coming from India will sabotage by India and India is blame for Pakistan @Zulfiqar




Yes, that too.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mace

pakistanipower said:


> There is threats that international passenger flight coming from India will sabotage by India and India is blame for Pakistan @Zulfiqar



How old are you @pakistanipower ?? 

No really


----------



## Ultima Thule

Mace said:


> How old are you @pakistanipower ??
> 
> No really


why you asking @Mace 
'There was rumors on our media that the there was serious threats about that @Mace


----------



## ziaulislam

Mace said:


> How old are you @pakistanipower ??
> 
> No really


Never before a civilian airliner has been shot down during an intense air warfare going on..indian logic..
Than it goes on to hit its own mi17

Had corridor not been shut down..India would have shot down Boeing 787 and would have called it an F16, same way its probably called the mi17 an f16, a "f16" which the Americans never built

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mace

pakistanipower said:


> why you asking @Mace
> 'There was rumors on our media that the there was serious threats about that @Mace



If true Pak media is juvenile and cannot but believe run by over zealous nationalistic imbeciles with no independent thought.

With Modi getting the world attention on put a spot light on alleged Pak origin militancy he will not give any space for India-Pak interaction in any kind or form. India will not touch Pak by a long barge pole.



ziaulislam said:


> Never before a civilian airliner has been shot down during an intense air warfare going on..indian logic..
> Than it goes on to hit its own mi17
> 
> Had corridor not been shut down..India would have shot down Boeing 787 and would have called it an F16, same way its probably called the mi17 an f16, a "f16" which the Americans never built



 You have all necessary intellect to be the editor of some super duper Pak media outlet.


----------



## Ultima Thule

Mace said:


> If true Pak media is juvenile and cannot but believe run by over zealous nationalistic imbeciles with no independent thought.


hint from govt/military officials, and your (indian) media over zealous nationalistic imbeciles that always blabbering anti Pakistani propaganda @Mace 


Mace said:


> With Modi getting the world attention on put a spot light on alleged Pak origin militancy he will not give any space for India-Pak interaction in any kind or form. India will not touch Pak by a long barge pole.


you're not center of the world, you're just a puppet of US./West to contain/conceal China, The word ALLEGED say all story, that you're blaming Pakistan without single/solid proof @Mace

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bossman

Mace said:


> If true Pak media is juvenile and cannot but believe run by over zealous nationalistic imbeciles with no independent thought.
> 
> With Modi getting the world attention on put a spot light on alleged Pak origin militancy he will not give any space for India-Pak interaction in any kind or form. India will not touch Pak by a long barge pole.
> 
> 
> 
> You have all necessary intellect to be the editor of some super duper Pak media outlet.



Look who is talking? From the land of likes of Arnab Goswami and mad dog Bakshi. Pakistani media might not be the most professional but is not run by hosts shouting and frothing from their mouths. As far are Modi is concerned, he tried and he is welcome to try again.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## loanranger

Is anyone wondering what happened to Alan Warnes interview with our Air Cheif?
I hope the Indians didnt get too desperate that they gunpointed him......


----------



## ziaulislam

Mace said:


> If true Pak media is juvenile and cannot but believe run by over zealous nationalistic imbeciles with no independent thought.
> 
> With Modi getting the world attention on put a spot light on alleged Pak origin militancy he will not give any space for India-Pak interaction in any kind or form. India will not touch Pak by a long barge pole.
> 
> 
> 
> You have all necessary intellect to be the editor of some super duper Pak media outlet.


And you were born yesterday and thus have no memory of airliners shot dwon by USA, Russia and recently by rebels..
If professional force can shot down airlines forget about india..they might end up downing all of airindia..

Though that might happen anyway because of airban

Still dont why why indian were such a pussy after Pakistan attacked their military installation and declared war in broad day light

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Flight of falcon

Mace said:


> If true Pak media is juvenile and cannot but believe run by over zealous nationalistic imbeciles with no independent thought.
> 
> With Modi getting the world attention on put a spot light on alleged Pak origin militancy he will not give any space for India-Pak interaction in any kind or form. India will not touch Pak by a long barge pole.
> 
> 
> 
> You have all necessary intellect to be the editor of some super duper Pak media outlet.





Mace bro please Get out of Modi’s rear end and see what he is doing to your once proud nation. You guys dream of being a super power but yet your nation has fallen to the levels of Talibans. We have suffered and seen the consequences of extremism and mind control. India is destined to same hell from where we have finally rescued our nation from. Do you believe in modi’s narrative? Any sane man will question where are the 300 dead or f16 wreckage but no Indian dares to speak out..: this is how the fall of any nation starts.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Armchair

ziaulislam said:


> And you were born yesterday and thus have no memory of airliners shot dwon by USA, Russia and recently by rebels..
> If professional force can shot down airlines forget about india..they might end up downing all of airindia..
> 
> Though that might happen anyway because of airban
> 
> Still dont why why indian were such a pussy after Pakistan attacked their military installation and declared war in broad day light



ahem ahem... I think their PM said something about getting Rafales before they can act like the superpowa again.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Flight of falcon

More clues as to what happened in the skies above Kashmir. Apparently Su30 with their superior radar could not lock on to F 16s and couldn’t fire their R77 as they were out of range. Apparently Pakistanis fired AMRAAM from 100 km range .


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.ndt...israeli-missiles-2044172?amp=1&akamai-rum=off

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Peshwa

Flight of falcon said:


> Mace bro please Get out of Modi’s rear end and see what he is doing to your once proud nation. You guys dream of being a super power but yet your nation has fallen to the levels of Talibans. We have suffered and seen the consequences of extremism and mind control. India is destined to same hell from where we have finally rescued our nation from. Do you believe in modi’s narrative? Any sane man will question where are the 300 dead or f16 wreckage but no Indian dares to speak out..: this is how the fall of any nation starts.



I agree with your assertion, but in the same token, has anyone in Pakistan bothered to confirm the wreckage of the IAF Su-30 apparently shot down? If we are to go by PDF and for it’s resident Pakistanis, there seems to be zero evidence of this, but 100% conviction that it happened. Where is the Pakistani questioning of its Army and ISPR claims?

Your post, although earnest in nature wreaks of preaching without heeding to your own advice.


----------



## Ultima Thule

Peshwa said:


> I agree with your assertion, but in the same token, has anyone in Pakistan bothered to confirm the wreckage of the IAF Su-30 apparently shot down? If we are to go by PDF and for it’s resident Pakistanis, there seems to be zero evidence of this, but 100% conviction that it happened. Where is the Pakistani questioning of its Army and ISPR claims?
> 
> Your post, although earnest in nature wreaks of preaching without heeding to your own advice.


Fell in IOK how many time we could tell you guys @Peshwa


----------



## Peshwa

pakistanipower said:


> Fell in IOK how many time we could tell you guys @Peshwa



Oh Bhai, fell in IOK and just disappeared into thin air? Wreckage bhi koi cheez hoti hai!
Toh then bhai, why don’t you apply the same methodology to the F-16, it fell in Azad Kashmir?

I mean we shot down our own copter in the same area, apparently that wasn’t hidden nor the wreckage. How did the Sukhoi manage to escape the purview? What happened to the pilot? His family doesn’t care to note his death?
I mean I understand you guys love conspiracy theories, but this is a bit excessive. Thoda zyada ho Gaya!


----------



## airomerix

Peshwa said:


> I agree with your assertion, but in the same token, has anyone in Pakistan bothered to confirm the wreckage of the IAF Su-30 apparently shot down? If we are to go by PDF and for it’s resident Pakistanis, there seems to be zero evidence of this, but 100% conviction that it happened. Where is the Pakistani questioning of its Army and ISPR claims?
> 
> Your post, although earnest in nature wreaks of preaching without heeding to your own advice.



Thanks for producing the blasted fragment of AIM-120 in your press conference 12 hours later. That is why there is 100% conviction. You guys gave us the proof yourselves.

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## TheTallGuy

@Peshwa 
You seem learned and in the know can you help..

IAF has lost 8 x aircraft in airbattle on 27-Feb-19 to F-16s & JF17s (6 and 2) 
3 x Su-30MKI (3 x No.15 Sqn)
2 x Mirage 2000i (2 x No.1 Sqn)
3 x MiG-21Bison (2 x No.51 Sqn, 1 x No.26 Sqn)

I have given squadrons can you verify please.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Ultima Thule

And


Peshwa said:


> Oh Bhai, fell in IOK and just disappeared into think air? Wreckage bhi koi cheez hoti hai!
> Toh then bhai, why don’t you apply the same methodology to the F-16, it fell in Azad Kashmir?
> 
> I mean we shot down our own copter in the same area, apparently that wasn’t hidden nor the wreckage. How did the Sukhoi manage to escape the purview? What happened to the pilot? His family doesn’t care to note his death?
> I mean I understand you guys love conspiracy theories, but this is a bit excessive. Thoda zyada ho Gaya!


 And same goes to our F-16 your occupied army/security forces can conceal the wreckage site and don't allow Public to take a shot/clip the wreck, if they did you can (indian army/security forces) take these phone from their possession to hide crash site from public view and for the Pilots few week later two your MKI pilots were killed in car accident according to your MOD/IAF, most probably its a cover up for hiding your mighty raptor of the east MKI shot down@Peshwa

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Myth_buster_1

airomerix said:


> Thanks for producing the blasted fragment of AIM-120 in your press conference 12 hours later. That is why there is 100% conviction. You guys gave us the proof yourselves.


IAF was able to shoot down AMRAAM but forgot to engage F-16s

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> @Peshwa
> You seem learned and in the know can you help..
> 
> IAF has lost 8 x aircraft in airbattle on 27-Feb-19 to F-16s & JF17s (6 and 2)
> 3 x Su-30MKI (3 x No.15 Sqn)
> 2 x Mirage 2000i (2 x No.1 Sqn)
> 3 x MiG-21Bison (2 x No.51 Sqn, 1 x No.26 Sqn)
> 
> I have given squadrons can you verify please.


Yaar don't spread too much Fake/false speculations/assertions without solid proofs/evidences @TheTallGuy

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Flight of falcon

Peshwa said:


> Oh Bhai, fell in IOK and just disappeared into think air? Wreckage bhi koi cheez hoti hai!
> Toh then bhai, why don’t you apply the same methodology to the F-16, it fell in Azad Kashmir?
> 
> I mean we shot down our own copter in the same area, apparently that wasn’t hidden nor the wreckage. How did the Sukhoi manage to escape the purview? What happened to the pilot? His family doesn’t care to note his death?
> I mean I understand you guys love conspiracy theories, but this is a bit excessive. Thoda zyada ho Gaya!




I have no problem going by the available evidence and accepting what is out there on camera.

So you will agree with the following:

Indian airforce completely missed the target and bombed empty tree lot.

Not a single person was killed in any Indian attack.

Indians never shot down F16.

Indians are hiding something by not releasing any pictures of six targets we hit. 

The helicopter that was shot down had fighter pilots in it .... what were they doing?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Mace

ziaulislam said:


> And you were born yesterday and thus have no memory of airliners shot dwon by USA, Russia and recently by rebels..
> If professional force can shot down airlines forget about india..they might end up downing all of airindia..
> 
> Though that might happen anyway because of airban
> 
> Still dont why why indian were such a pussy after Pakistan attacked their military installation and declared war in broad day light



It is ok to be afraid. Pak can open airspace whenever it feels safe from potential Indian retaliation.

Indians were not pu$$ies. Modi threatened Pak with missile strike. Potential nobel peace laureate IK buckled at the knee, released Abhi and closed airspace.

I am looking forward to Pak narrative on why they are opening the airspace again when they do it. Let’s face it, whatever the justification Pak is going to come of as weak.



Flight of falcon said:


> Mace bro please Get out of Modi’s rear end and see what he is doing to your once proud nation. You guys dream of being a super power but yet your nation has fallen to the levels of Talibans. We have suffered and seen the consequences of extremism and mind control. India is destined to same hell from where we have finally rescued our nation from. Do you believe in modi’s narrative? Any sane man will question where are the 300 dead or f16 wreckage but no Indian dares to speak out..: this is how the fall of any nation starts.



Going by your logic you have no evidence of Su30 wreckage. I have not seen any sane minds on Pak side questioning this. Nor the 2 parachutes that came down for which videos exist.


----------



## Flight of falcon

Mace said:


> It is ok to be afraid. Pak can open airspace whenever it feels safe from potential Indian retaliation.
> 
> Indians were not pu$$ies. Modi threatened Pak with missile strike. Potential nobel peace laureate IK buckled at the knee, released Abhi and closed airspace.
> 
> I am looking forward to Pak narrative on why they are opening the airspace again when they do it. Let’s face it, whatever the justification Pak is going to come of as weak.
> 
> 
> 
> Going by your logic you have no evidence of Su30 wreckage. I have not seen any sane minds on Pak side questioning this. Nor the 2 parachutes that came down for which videos exist.




There is no such thing as two parachute video .... it’s the creation of Indian mind which is mostly doing dances in their cranial cavity so unable to see the reality. 
But do you agree with everything I wrote? I agree that I have not seen SU30 wreckage. Ok 

Indians are the worst cowards on earth. They should be so ashamed of their performance and should stop posting BS. the armed forces should rise up and arrest Modi and millions of his followers who are hiding in his cavity where the sun doesn’t shine.


----------



## Vortex

Mace said:


> It is ok to be afraid. Pak can open airspace whenever it feels safe from potential Indian retaliation.
> 
> Indians were not pu$$ies. Modi threatened Pak with missile strike. Potential nobel peace laureate IK buckled at the knee, released Abhi and closed airspace.
> 
> I am looking forward to Pak narrative on why they are opening the airspace again when they do it. Let’s face it, whatever the justification Pak is going to come of as weak.
> 
> 
> 
> Going by your logic you have no evidence of Su30 wreckage. I have not seen any sane minds on Pak side questioning this. Nor the 2 parachutes that came down for which videos exist.




Humm just because we sealed airspace you can’t retaliate anymore ? I mean your MKI cannot fly anymore? Ohh yes MKI are scared of AMRAAM and SD10 !

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## NA71

TheTallGuy said:


> @Peshwa
> You seem learned and in the know can you help..
> 
> IAF has lost 8 x aircraft in airbattle on 27-Feb-19 to F-16s & JF17s (6 and 2)
> 3 x Su-30MKI (3 x No.15 Sqn)
> 2 x Mirage 2000i (2 x No.1 Sqn)
> 3 x MiG-21Bison (2 x No.51 Sqn, 1 x No.26 Sqn)
> 
> I have given squadrons can you verify please.




Sir it seems app ney inn figures ko hifz kar leya hey.....very challenging for PAF to prove.



Myth_buster_1 said:


> IAF was able to shoot down AMRAAM but forgot to engage F-16s




Engaging AMRAAMs is the claim which bogged down entire IAF credibility...


----------



## Psychic

Telescopic Sight said:


> I have asked. Nothing has changed from the IAF side. Business as usual.
> On the other hand in the PAF.....Closed airspace, dispersed F-16's, leaves cancelled, weddings postponed....
> Speaks volumes on who is on the back foot.










​


Telescopic Sight said:


> Nothing has changed from the IAF side. Business as usual.





















Telescopic Sight said:


> Closed airspace, dispersed F-16's, leaves cancelled, weddings postponed

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Blueskiez 2001

Is there any possibility that Pakistan could take arial photos for example by satellite to track down wreckage of the downed plane(s)?

Just a thought - this way you have proof and no need to give out sensitive information.

I know then there comes the questions about the images being photo-shopped....


----------



## Falcon26

There are serious doubts about the veracity of PAF’s claim of shooting down the SU-30. While not as outlandish like the IAF claim of F-16 kill, there are zero evidence that a second Indian plane was downed.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Psychic

Falcon26 said:


> There are serious doubts about the veracity of PAF’s claim of shooting down the SU-30. While not as outlandish like the IAF claim of F-16 kill, there are zero evidence that a second Indian plane was downed.


Perhaps it was the hip which Indians say they shot themselves. To avoid public backlash as to how the inferior PAF was able to kill that deep...

A slow target some 75km inside IOK---hard to believe that IAF could have mistaken it for PAF jet or drone.

Yet one thing is very clear and that is that it was struck by a missile.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Peshwa

airomerix said:


> Thanks for producing the blasted fragment of AIM-120 in your press conference 12 hours later. That is why there is 100% conviction. You guys gave us the proof yourselves.



And we are yet to see any proof of a SU-30 being shot down, yet your loudspeaker won’t shut up.
So as I said, practice what you preach.



TheTallGuy said:


> @Peshwa
> You seem learned and in the know can you help..
> 
> IAF has lost 8 x aircraft in airbattle on 27-Feb-19 to F-16s & JF17s (6 and 2)
> 3 x Su-30MKI (3 x No.15 Sqn)
> 2 x Mirage 2000i (2 x No.1 Sqn)
> 3 x MiG-21Bison (2 x No.51 Sqn, 1 x No.26 Sqn)
> 
> I have given squadrons can you verify please.



I’m not in the armed forces, nor do I live in India, so unfortunately no bueno on the vetting piece, sorry.

My assertions are based on publicly available information everyone here is privy to..,

1 MiG 21 lost to PAF
1 MI-17 lost to friendly fire

Other than that, everything else is conjecture. That’s my take.



Flight of falcon said:


> I have no problem going by the available evidence and accepting what is out there on camera.
> 
> So you will agree with the following:
> 
> Indian airforce completely missed the target and bombed empty tree lot.
> 
> Not a single person was killed in any Indian attack.
> 
> Indians never shot down F16.
> 
> Indians are hiding something by not releasing any pictures of six targets we hit.
> 
> The helicopter that was shot down had fighter pilots in it .... what were they doing?



I’ll make it simple for you.

1 MIG 21 shot down by PAF
1 Mi-17 lost to friendly fire

This is what’s concrete and proven.

The rest are just claims from both sides.
Keep it simple, keep it clean.

You guys want to gloat about shooting down the MIG, you have all right to.
But don’t tag on extra BS to fluff your feathers on that coat tail.



pakistanipower said:


> And
> 
> And same goes to our F-16 your occupied army/security forces can conceal the wreckage site and don't allow Public to take a shot/clip the wreck, if they did you can (indian army/security forces) take these phone from their possession to hide crash site from public view and for the Pilots few week later two your MKI pilots were killed in car accident according to your MOD/IAF, most probably its a cover up for hiding your mighty raptor of the east MKI shot down@Peshwa



Yaar yeh bohot Lambi ho gayi!
It’s very simple, if the SU-30 was shot down, it would be major news. Every bhadwa news reporter with a pen and a handheld would be covering it. Trust me.
Let alone the fact that the pilots autopsy, which the family is privy to would also indicate date and time of death. So an AF pilot dying 2 weeks after would not have the same autopsy report. Period!
Somehow you missed the fact that the pilot is a human with a family and not just a number for the govt to erase from its books. I don’t know how it is in Pak, but in India, such cover ups lead to govt heads rolling.

Lastly, if we go by your version of things and logic, either side can throw any bull crap accusation only to say that the govt of either country just “covered it up”. And frankly, this is the kind of conspiracy theories being flung on PDF that have turned this forum into a joke.
So why not just stick to what can be proven, MIG 21 shot down by PAF.

Enjoy the kill. It’s not easy going against a bigger enemy, and PAF gets credit for it.
But don’t get over zealous and try to claim accolades that never materialized nor can be proven. Just makes your achievement lose color, nothing else. And this goes for both sides of the fence.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## 313ghazi

SU-30 kill has been confirmed by our air chief and reported by world renowned media, not locally paid shills. 

PAF has been proven right on every claim it's made so far and will continue to be be proven right on this account to. 

The Indian government has clearly faked an autopsy report and the pilots body has been released to his family after a delay. It is entirely possible, this government has lied multiple times and they've been exposed time and time again. I mean you people recently attributed some dead soldiers to a grass fire at a sniper range....lol

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## araz

Mace said:


> It is Pak which has closed its airspace. News of F16 moved away from FOBs.
> 
> Why IAF is on the back foot?? If anything Pak and paf are on the back foot. It comes off even worse for paf if IAF is not even venturing anywhere near loc.


Why indeed would the IAF take a step back when even being shot down gets the IAF pilot a medal. When a narrative can be built up on the TV and then entire dhoti clad nation can jump for joy while the planes come down why indeed would the IAF Back down. Let me answer that for you. They back down because they are scared out of their wits.
A

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Windjammer

Telescopic Sight said:


> I have asked. Nothing has changed from the IAF side. Business as usual.
> On the other hand in the PAF.....Closed airspace, dispersed F-16's, leaves cancelled, weddings postponed....
> Speaks volumes on who is on the back foot.


Seems change of ID has affected your thinking as well, pity you weren't there to advise say Sadam Hussein, as going by your logic, had Iraq closed it's airspace, that would have prevented US and NATO from attacking it. 
And off course nothing has changed for the IAF except some commanders removed, the so called Raptor of the East given a new role to dodge missiles and IAF chief openly admitting that he will be back in business only once the Rafales arrive. I know of at least three weddings that took place in the last month alone, were you declined entry into some venue. 
The PAF F-16s were indeed dispersed to strike India from every sector but what fear is causing India not to station it's SU-30s in Srinagar.

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## Flight of falcon

Peshwa said:


> And we are yet to see any proof of a SU-30 being shot down, yet your loudspeaker won’t shut up.
> So as I said, practice what you preach.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not in the armed forces, nor do I live in India, so unfortunately no bueno on the vetting piece, sorry.
> 
> My assertions are based on publicly available information everyone here is privy to..,
> 
> 1 MiG 21 lost to PAF
> 1 MI-17 lost to friendly fire
> 
> Other than that, everything else is conjecture. That’s my take.
> 
> 
> 
> I’ll make it simple for you.
> 
> 1 MIG 21 shot down by PAF
> 1 Mi-17 lost to friendly fire
> 
> This is what’s concrete and proven.
> 
> The rest are just claims from both sides.
> Keep it simple, keep it clean.
> 
> You guys want to gloat about shooting down the MIG, you have all right to.
> But don’t tag on extra BS to fluff your feathers on that coat tail.
> 
> 
> 
> Yaar yeh bohot Lambi ho gayi!
> It’s very simple, if the SU-30 was shot down, it would be major news. Every bhadwa news reporter with a pen and a handheld would be covering it. Trust me.
> Let alone the fact that the pilots autopsy, which the family is privy to would also indicate date and time of death. So an AF pilot dying 2 weeks after would not have the same autopsy report. Period!
> Somehow you missed the fact that the pilot is a human with a family and not just a number for the govt to erase from its books. I don’t know how it is in Pak, but in India, such cover ups lead to govt heads rolling.
> 
> Lastly, if we go by your version of things and logic, either side can throw any bull crap accusation only to say that the govt of either country just “covered it up”. And frankly, this is the kind of conspiracy theories being flung on PDF that have turned this forum into a joke.
> So why not just stick to what can be proven, MIG 21 shot down by PAF.
> 
> Enjoy the kill. It’s not easy going against a bigger enemy, and PAF gets credit for it.
> But don’t get over zealous and try to claim accolades that never materialized nor can be proven. Just makes your achievement lose color, nothing else. And this goes for both sides of the fence.





Hey you made simple for me but skipped my two other questions . Do you believe 350-400 people were killed in Balakot? 

Do you believe IAF is hiding something bcs they have failed to release any pictures of six targets PAF claimed hit and acknowledged by India. If there are no pictures of sixbtargets hit them how hard is it to hide pics of one Su30?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Peshwa

Flight of falcon said:


> Hey you made simple for me but skipped my two other questions . Do you believe 350-400 people were killed in Balakot?
> 
> Do you believe IAF is hiding something bcs they have failed to release any pictures of six targets PAF claimed hit and acknowledged by India. If there are no pictures of sixbtargets hit them how hard is it to hide pics of one Su30?



Did you not read my last line?.
I believe both are conjecture. Both sides are fluffing stuff up.

I don’t believe 350-400 militants were killed. But I don’t know whether the number is 3 or 300 or 0. That’s something you can’t verify nor I.
IAF dropped bombs, whether they caused damage or not is unclear. They may have completely missed the target.

On the Pak side, you dropped some bombs too. The extent of damage you caused to Indian infrastructure or men is for you to quantify and the Indian govt/army to refute.
So far I haven’t seen any news that says PAF raids caused any damage to man or material.
Use the same google earth screenshot methodology to determine the locations of the six targets and confirm them. Shouldn’t that be something you guys should have done already? If I’ve missed it, I would love to see this.

And lastly, the road to “covering up” runs both ways no? If you’re saying as confirmed by your own forces that IAF raided locations on the Pak side, and dropped bombs, isn’t Pak able to cover up the same? Why is covering up only an Indian forte?
If you want to have a balanced discussion, the possibility of both sides blowing smoke up their countrymen’s asses has to be taken into account.

I’m not saying either happened or not, point is, none of it is verifiable or has not been confirmed unequivocally by either side.
So in such circumstances, we only count what can be confirmed without a shred of doubt.
MIG 21 and MI 17 were the losses so far.

Hope that makes my stand clear.


----------



## airomerix

Peshwa said:


> And we are yet to see any proof of a SU-30 being shot down, yet your loudspeaker won’t shut up.
> So as I said, practice what you preach.



*The world wont shut up until you justify what your commanders were doing with a loud speaker in one hand and AMRAAM's wreckage in another. *

From where did you get those blast fragments in IoK? Your underdeveloped cognitive ability cannot even figure that out. 

There are reports about flanker falling into a dam which is adjacent to a cantonment area. Nothings concrete because you authorities wont let access to that area. Anyway, the fact remains. AMRAAM has hit something in IoK. Certainly your dumb *** is not that valuable of a target. Su 30 still remains the plausible option. Idiot.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## masterchief_mirza

Peshwa said:


> The world gives two shits and has moved on. The only ones yapping incessantly about it are the low esteemed PDF Pakistanis like yourself trying to find any semblance of a “win” because they know lies and conjecture is the closest they will come to even the V in victory. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that your proof of downing a SU-30? Lol
> That’s desperate even for a PDF Pakistani.
> 
> 
> 
> Ahahahaha
> Flanker falling into a dam? This gets even funnier with every word you spew.
> Seriously, not going to waste my time on responding to an inbred moron.
> Come back when you have something sensible to say.
> Until then, use PDF to circle jerk other delusional Pakistanis over the apparent downing of a Su-30. At least this way you’ll get some action lol


Eh? What weird denial land are you living in?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Peshwa

masterchief_mirza said:


> Eh? What weird denial land are you living in?



Denial of what? A Su-30 being downed? LOL
Yeah let me see the concrete evidence of the same and I’ll retract my statement.
If you have any irrefutable evidence, please do show. I’m sure even ISPR would be interested in your findings.
Read my other posts, I’ve given PAF credit where it’s due.
This isn’t one of them.


----------



## masterchief_mirza

"The only ones yapping incessantly about it are the low esteemed PDF Pakistanis like yourself trying to find any semblance of a “win” because they know lies and conjecture is the closest they will come to even the V in victory. Lol"

Pak has gone way beyond a "semblance of a win" and owned the battlefield, regardless of whether a SU30 was downed or not. It is you who is coming across as clearly butthurt.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Arsalan 345

TheTallGuy said:


> @Peshwa
> You seem learned and in the know can you help..
> 
> IAF has lost 8 x aircraft in airbattle on 27-Feb-19 to F-16s & JF17s (6 and 2)
> 3 x Su-30MKI (3 x No.15 Sqn)
> 2 x Mirage 2000i (2 x No.1 Sqn)
> 3 x MiG-21Bison (2 x No.51 Sqn, 1 x No.26 Sqn)
> 
> I have given squadrons can you verify please.



are you serious? this looks like a joke.you even provided squadron numbers.lol


----------



## TsAr

Peshwa said:


> Denial of what? A Su-30 being downed? LOL
> Yeah let me see the concrete evidence of the same and I’ll retract my statement.
> If you have any irrefutable evidence, please do show. I’m sure even ISPR would be interested in your findings.
> Read my other posts, I’ve given PAF credit where it’s due.
> This isn’t one of them.


Mind explaining the defragmented Amraam that was shown by IAF, where did it come from?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ultima Thule

Peshwa said:


> Yaar yeh bohot Lambi ho gayi!
> It’s very simple, if the SU-30 was shot down, it would be major news. Every bhadwa news reporter with a pen and a handheld would be covering it. Trust me.
> Let alone the fact that the pilots autopsy, which the family is privy to would also indicate date and time of death. So an AF pilot dying 2 weeks after would not have the same autopsy report. Period!
> Somehow you missed the fact that the pilot is a human with a family and not just a number for the govt to erase from its books. I don’t know how it is in Pak, but in India, such cover ups lead to govt heads rolling.
> 
> Lastly, if we go by your version of things and logic, either side can throw any bull crap accusation only to say that the govt of either country just “covered it up”. And frankly, this is the kind of conspiracy theories being flung on PDF that have turned this forum into a joke.
> So why not just stick to what can be proven, MIG 21 shot down by PAF.
> 
> Enjoy the kill. It’s not easy going against a bigger enemy, and PAF gets credit for it.
> But don’t get over zealous and try to claim accolades that never materialized nor can be proven. Just makes your achievement lose color, nothing else. And this goes for both sides of the fence.


Shut up and believe whatever you want, your own media accidentally revealing that MKI was shot down, if you don't like this forum why you're here, and just LEAVE this forum @Peshwa


----------



## Flight of falcon

Peshwa said:


> Did you not read my last line?.
> I believe both are conjecture. Both sides are fluffing stuff up.
> 
> I don’t believe 350-400 militants were killed. But I don’t know whether the number is 3 or 300 or 0. That’s something you can’t verify nor I.
> IAF dropped bombs, whether they caused damage or not is unclear. They may have completely missed the target.
> 
> On the Pak side, you dropped some bombs too. The extent of damage you caused to Indian infrastructure or men is for you to quantify and the Indian govt/army to refute.
> So far I haven’t seen any news that says PAF raids caused any damage to man or material.
> Use the same google earth screenshot methodology to determine the locations of the six targets and confirm them. Shouldn’t that be something you guys should have done already? If I’ve missed it, I would love to see this.
> 
> And lastly, the road to “covering up” runs both ways no? If you’re saying as confirmed by your own forces that IAF raided locations on the Pak side, and dropped bombs, isn’t Pak able to cover up the same? Why is covering up only an Indian forte?
> If you want to have a balanced discussion, the possibility of both sides blowing smoke up their countrymen’s asses has to be taken into account.
> 
> I’m not saying either happened or not, point is, none of it is verifiable or has not been confirmed unequivocally by either side.
> So in such circumstances, we only count what can be confirmed without a shred of doubt.
> MIG 21 and MI 17 were the losses so far.
> 
> Hope that makes my stand clear.





Sorry brother you can dance around as much as you want but you cannot escape the fact that the entire political leadership and Modi’s military as well as common public were and to some extent still are consumed by their self made Bollywood drama. 

Everything Indian side has claimed so far has turned out to be untrue and minus two pilots in custody gaffe everything from ISPR is true. 

I don’t need to question and try to find out truth about SoSO strike. It was a complete failure at every level possible. I suggest you read this single article that pretty much busts every myth Indians created about satellite imagery.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.blo...balakot-jaish-madrasa-standing-reuters-report

Indians have at least seven spy satellites Pakistan has none. Why is India not releasing any photos??? Because they have none. 
If you are that neutral perhaps you can clearly and unequivocally say that the strike failed and there were no damage or losses and the entire military and political leadership lied. 


I rest my case .


----------



## Mace

araz said:


> Why indeed would the IAF take a step back when even being shot down gets the IAF pilot a medal. When a narrative can be built up on the TV and then entire dhoti clad nation can jump for joy while the planes come down why indeed would the IAF Back down. Let me answer that for you. They back down because they are scared out of their wits.
> A



Dude, that’s lot of big words you used there. Please let me know when you are less scared sh*tless and open your airspace. 

Sheesh

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1


----------



## araz

Mace said:


> Dude, that’s lot of big words you used there. Please let me know when you are less scared sh*tless and open your airspace.
> 
> Sheesh


Dud(missed the E intentionally lest you think otherwise)
When you have a positive contribution to make then come back. The Pak air space is closed for Safeguarding Pak interests. Why is your butt hurting. By the way there were no big words in my post however the sarcasm obviously was wasted on your puny intellect. My apologies for taxing your solitary neuron into burnout.
Regards
A

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Peshwa

pakistanipower said:


> Shut up and believe whatever you want, your own media accidentally revealing that MKI was shot down, if you don't like this forum why you're here, and just LEAVE this forum @Peshwa



What authority is the Indian media? What are they basing their proof on?
Anyone can make statements as you are,..yellow journalism isn’t a distant cry in this part of the world.

Your argument or reasoning isn’t convincing anyone. But I care little, so I agree, let’s leave it at that. You can believe what you must. Doesn’t change a thing.
Adios.


----------



## Ultima Thule

Peshwa said:


> What authority is the Indian media? What are they basing their proof on?
> Anyone can make statements as you are,..yellow journalism isn’t a distant cry in this part of the world.
> 
> Your argument or reasoning isn’t convincing anyone. But I care little, so I agree, let’s leave it at that. You can believe what you must. Doesn’t change a thing.
> Adios.


Whatever @Peshwa our ACM confirmed 2nd jet was MKI, that was enough for, you're in trolling mode @Peshwa


----------



## Peshwa

pakistanipower said:


> Whatever @Peshwa our ACM confirmed 2nd jet was MKI, that was enough for, you're in trolling mode @Peshwa



No trolling, just not convinced or believe the ACMs words. When you’ve got skin in the game, it’s hard to take a biased opinion at face value.
Again, it really makes no difference boss. Let’s leave it at that.


----------



## Ultima Thule

Peshwa said:


> No trolling, just not convinced or believe the ACMs words. When you’ve got skin in the game, it’s hard to take a biased opinion at face value.
> Again, it really makes no difference boss. Let’s leave it at that.


and similar why you (india) claiming shot down of F-16D by your 10 gen Mig-21 without a proof @Peshwa


----------



## Psychic

Mace said:


> Dude, that’s lot of big words you used there. Please let me know when you are less scared sh*tless and *open your airspace. *
> 
> Sheesh


_*" Air India has suffered losses of around Rs3 billion* (Rs300 crore) since late February as its long haul flights from New Delhi are taking longer to reach destinations in Europe, the Gulf and the US *because of the closure of Pakistan's airspace*."_

Your arse-holiness is getting a thorough spanking in the process. 
Looks like you are happy about that achievement---just like the Param-Vir-Chakra feat of blasting your own hip out of the sky some 75km inside your own airspace.



Peshwa said:


> I don’t believe 350-400 militants were killed. But I don’t know whether the number is 3 or 300 or 0. That’s something you can’t verify nor I.
> IAF dropped bombs, whether they caused damage or not is unclear. *They may have completely missed the target.*


Indeed they did;
_The image is virtually unchanged from an April 2018 satellite photo of the facility. There are *no discernible holes in the roofs of buildings*, no signs of scorching, blown-out walls, displaced trees around the madrasa or other signs of an aerial attack._
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...standing-at-indian-bombing-site-idUSKCN1QN00V

Indian somersaults; 
1- It was a militant training camp. 
2- 300 militants killed.
3- Camp destroyed.
4- Camp not destroyed, bombs went through roof. Blasted inside.
5- Don't know how many killed.
_*--------ALL DEBUNKED BY INT'L MEDIA*_

Which "unbiased" report are you looking for? Had there been casualties of madrassa children, our whole country would've been demanding retribution. 
Yes the building targeted was a madrassa full of children, i.e a civilian building, not some training camp of combatants---IAF stooped that low to ensure Modi's political victory.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CriticalThought

Peshwa said:


> The world gives two shits and has moved on. The only ones yapping incessantly about it are the low esteemed PDF Pakistanis like yourself trying to find any semblance of a “win” because they know lies and conjecture is the closest they will come to even the V in victory. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that your proof of downing a SU-30? Lol
> That’s desperate even for a PDF Pakistani.
> 
> 
> 
> Ahahahaha
> Flanker falling into a dam? This gets even funnier with every word you spew.
> Seriously, not going to waste my time on responding to an inbred moron.
> Come back when you have something sensible to say.
> Until then, use PDF to circle jerk other delusional Pakistanis over the apparent downing of a Su-30. At least this way you’ll get some action lol



Right. Enough of your smart aleck antics. There is a fundamental difference between the Pakistani claim and the Indian claim. The Indian claim of downing F-16 is refuted by the OEM. The Pakistani claim of downing Su-30 is not refuted by OEM. As a matter of fact, Pakistan and Russia just got closer by signing a pact of no first use of space weapons. Releasing details of Su-30 kill goes against Pakistan's best interests, hence an indirect reveal through international media. Don't expect any details to be revealed any time soon.

@WebMaster @Oscar @Horus @waz @Dubious I am flagging this person for trash talk targeting our ACM. In rubbishing Pakistani posters, he is actually discrediting the ACM. This can not be tolerated.


----------



## SQ8

Peshwa said:


> Denial of what? A Su-30 being downed? LOL
> Yeah let me see the concrete evidence of the same and I’ll retract my statement.
> If you have any irrefutable evidence, please do show. I’m sure even ISPR would be interested in your findings.
> Read my other posts, I’ve given PAF credit where it’s due.
> This isn’t one of them.


Does your side have concrete evidence of the F-16?

We have your folks parading a exploded 120 , what else are we to assume(leaving aside those of us who interact on and off with contacts and have more on this) that it hit something.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## araz

Peshwa said:


> No trolling, just not convinced or believe the ACMs words. When you’ve got skin in the game, it’s hard to take a biased opinion at face value.
> Again, it really makes no difference boss. Let’s leave it at that.


You have a right to not being convinced. However an air chief does not fabricate lies to quote to an internnational publication. Moreover the journalist would also not take his word for it without proof. Alan in his post said that he had seen proof which was why he wrote what he wrote.
Rest as always is upto you.
A

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Peshwa

Oscar said:


> Does your side have concrete evidence of the F-16?
> 
> We have your folks parading a exploded 120 , what else are we to assume(leaving aside those of us who interact on and off with contacts and have more on this) that it hit something.



And I’ve been consistent throughout my posts (you can check them on this thread) that both claims of F-16 being downed and SU-30 being downed cannot be corroborated with evidence and hence we should stick to what can be facts that are irrefutable
MIG 21 being shot down
MI 17 being lost to friendly fire.
Your countrymen insist on Saying the SU 30 is “confirmed” kill while F-16 is a hoax. I say both cannot be confirmed with certainty.
My argument has been that except for the ACM statement, no proof has been presented nor evidence around the crash to indicate the SU was downed.

Don’t see what the issue here is except Pakistanis trying to shove their their version of events down others throats.



araz said:


> You have a right to not being convinced. *However an air chief does not fabricate lies to quote to an internnational publication.* Moreover the journalist would also not take his word for it without proof. Alan in his post said that he had seen proof which was why he wrote what he wrote.
> Rest as always is upto you.
> A



Does that apply to only the Pakistani armed forces or to those of any country?
Again, it seems you’re taking Alan Warnes on face value because it suits your narrative.
What proof has Alan presented except saying that the ACM confirmed it? That’s what I’m asking.
My stand has been, I haven’t seen any evidence of a SU being downed. If you have it, I would love to see this. Especially one that Alan Warnes has seen to confirm this fact.


----------



## Peshwa

CriticalThought said:


> Right. Enough of your smart aleck antics. There is a fundamental difference between the Pakistani claim and the Indian claim. *The Indian claim of downing F-16 is refuted by the OEM. The Pakistani claim of downing Su-30 is not refuted by OEM. *As a matter of fact, Pakistan and Russia just got closer by signing a pact of no first use of space weapons. Releasing details of Su-30 kill goes against Pakistan's best interests, hence an indirect reveal through international media. Don't expect any details to be revealed any time soon.
> 
> @WebMaster @Oscar @Horus @waz @Dubious I am flagging this person for trash talk targeting our ACM. In rubbishing Pakistani posters, he is actually discrediting the ACM. This can not be tolerated.



Yeah pentagon has denied any audit of PAF F-16s nor is it available for public domain. So not sure what confirmation you’re referring to by the OEM.

Or for that matter how Russia or Sukhoi as a company confirmed the downing of SU-30.

This is exactly the proof I’m asking for.
Your entire premise is based on the Foreign Policy magazine claim that the Pentagon has shot down.


----------



## Flight of falcon

Flight of falcon said:


> Sorry brother you can dance around as much as you want but you cannot escape the fact that the entire political leadership and Modi’s military as well as common public were and to some extent still are consumed by their self made Bollywood drama.
> 
> Everything Indian side has claimed so far has turned out to be untrue and minus two pilots in custody gaffe everything from ISPR is true.
> 
> I don’t need to question and try to find out truth about SoSO strike. It was a complete failure at every level possible. I suggest you read this single article that pretty much busts every myth Indians created about satellite imagery.
> 
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.blo...balakot-jaish-madrasa-standing-reuters-report
> 
> Indians have at least seven spy satellites Pakistan has none. Why is India not releasing any photos??? Because they have none.
> If you are that neutral perhaps you can clearly and unequivocally say that the strike failed and there were no damage or losses and the entire military and political leadership lied.
> 
> 
> I rest my case .





Now let me get this straight:

Indians claimed 400 killed..... no proof found either satellite or on the ground of any damage at all. Indians lied and still sticking to their lie.


Peshwa said:


> Yeah pentagon has denied any audit of PAF F-16s nor is it available for public domain. So not sure what confirmation you’re referring to by the OEM.
> 
> Or for that matter how Russia or Sukhoi as a company confirmed the downing of SU-30.
> 
> This is exactly the proof I’m asking for.
> Your entire premise is based on the Foreign Policy magazine claim that the Pentagon has shot down.




Absolutely not. Pentagon merely said they cannot confirm and are unaware. Buddy we have permanent attachment of US personnel literally counting every admonished and spare required. Do you think they won’t report back a plane missing? Pentagon does not comment on every shitty question Indian media asks. 

Also the pictures above are funny. By your defence official? Same people who got plastered for showing F 16 parts and that turned out to be Mig 21.

It doesn’t even look like parachute. All made up nonsense. Do you know how the parachute looks like?



Jochen Peiper said:


> Well Sir, what do you have to say about this tweet from an Indian Defence specialist on the crash of a second aircraft in Azad Kashmir. we know it is not the M21...
> View attachment 562671




You need to go to the nearest optometrist and buy thick glasses. Laser eye surgery is another option if you are seeing parachute in any of the above pictures::... wait I see it I actually see a Bollywood hero shooting down two F16s in the back ground .


----------



## graphican

Jochen Peiper said:


> Well Sir, what do you have to say about this tweet from an Indian Defence specialist on the crash of a second aircraft in Azad Kashmir. we know it is not the M21...
> View attachment 562671



This thing looks delta winged. Unless you claim you shot Pakistani Mirage, insistence of it being an F-16 is an Indian grade claim.


----------



## graphican

Jochen Peiper said:


> I am not saying or calling out the aircraft type. The IAF and experts/ vets claim its an F-16 (one even naming the pilot , but I am just saying its a PAF aircraft.
> 
> I am glad that you at least see a PAF Mirage in this....!


I do not see any PAF in it for sure and I never said its PAF's Miraje, but "if you had claimed you shot down a PAFs Mirag", which obviously you dont claim. You are speaking of your wishes not fact, and even your wishes are falling apart as visuals do not advocate what you claim. 

To say the least, you guys are in a pretty bad mental condition.


----------



## syed_yusuf

Jochen Peiper said:


> I am not saying or calling out the aircraft type. The IAF and experts/ vets claim its an F-16 (one even naming the pilot , but I am just saying its a PAF aircraft.
> 
> I am glad that you at least see a PAF Mirage in this....!


it look like an Su-30 to me


----------



## Windjammer

Jochen Peiper said:


> It may be a Su30 indeed sir. But then why hasn't the Pak Army shown its debris to anyone? Remember this is falling in Azad Kashmir


What is the proof that it's actually falling in Azad Kashmir or even then how can you be so sure that it's not Abhi's MiG.......earlier some Indian posters were claiming that the following image is of Indian aircraft making a Trishul above the LOC.....in fact it turned out that the Indian aircraft was actually running away for dear life from a PAF missile.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## araz

Peshwa said:


> And I’ve been consistent throughout my posts (you can check them on this thread) that both claims of F-16 being downed and SU-30 being downed cannot be corroborated with evidence and hence we should stick to what can be facts that are irrefutable
> MIG 21 being shot down
> MI 17 being lost to friendly fire.
> Your countrymen insist on Saying the SU 30 is “confirmed” kill while F-16 is a hoax. I say both cannot be confirmed with certainty.
> My argument has been that except for the ACM statement, no proof has been presented nor evidence around the crash to indicate the SU was downed.
> 
> Don’t see what the issue here is except Pakistanis trying to shove their their version of events down others throats.
> 
> 
> 
> Does that apply to only the Pakistani armed forces or to those of any country?
> Again, it seems you’re taking Alan Warnes on face value because it suits your narrative.
> What proof has Alan presented except saying that the ACM confirmed it? That’s what I’m asking.
> My stand has been, I haven’t seen any evidence of a SU being downed. If you have it, I would love to see this. Especially one that Alan Warnes has seen to confirm this fact.





Peshwa said:


> And I’ve been consistent throughout my posts (you can check them on this thread) that both claims of F-16 being downed and SU-30 being downed cannot be corroborated with evidence and hence we should stick to what can be facts that are irrefutable
> MIG 21 being shot down
> MI 17 being lost to friendly fire.
> Your countrymen insist on Saying the SU 30 is “confirmed” kill while F-16 is a hoax. I say both cannot be confirmed with certainty.
> My argument has been that except for the ACM statement, no proof has been presented nor evidence around the crash to indicate the SU was downed.
> 
> Don’t see what the issue here is except Pakistanis trying to shove their their version of events down others throats.
> 
> 
> 
> Does that apply to only the Pakistani armed forces or to those of any country?
> Again, it seems you’re taking Alan Warnes on face value because it suits your narrative.
> What proof has Alan presented except saying that the ACM confirmed it? That’s what I’m asking.
> My stand has been, I haven’t seen any evidence of a SU being downed. If you have it, I would love to see this. Especially one that Alan Warnes has seen to confirm this fact.


Alan was asked about whetherche saw proof and he said yes. It is due to be printed out in his June publication. Lets just wait and seewhat was he provided
Again a Defence journalist of Alan Warne's reputation just does not publish things for the heck of it.
Regarding the 16s claim it has been debunked by the OEM . So let it rest. Indian press has really lost its credibility due to its toing and froing with regards to the losses on 27/02. Basing a claim on a fuzzy picture in the absence of substantial proof in spite of OEM saying they have checked and found inventory intact is stupidity. 
A


----------



## Maarkhoor

Jochen Peiper said:


> It may be a Su30 indeed sir. But then why hasn't the Pak Army shown its debris to anyone? Remember this is falling in Azad Kashmir


At sky you saw written it is Azaad Kashmir not IOK.

Ajj kiya dawai lena bhol gey thy?


----------



## Peshwa

araz said:


> Alan was asked about whetherche saw proof and he said yes. It is due to be printed out in his June publication. Lets just wait and seewhat was he provided
> Again a Defence journalist of Alan Warne's reputation just does not publish things for the heck of it.
> Regarding the 16s claim it has been debunked by the OEM . So let it rest. Indian press has really lost its credibility due to its toing and froing with regards to the losses on 27/02. Basing a claim on a fuzzy picture in the absence of substantial proof in spite of OEM saying they have checked and found inventory intact is stupidity.
> A



Let’s wait for the Alan Warnes report in the June issue as you said. That should clear the evidence he thinks is valid to corroborate the ACMs statement.

On the issue of OEM confirming the F-16 being intact, can you point me to which report you’re referring to that has Boeing confirming an audit on PAF F-16s? Perhaps I may have missed this. I would be happy to be corrected if this is the case.


----------



## Maarkhoor

Jochen Peiper said:


> Ha Ha. Victim of your info warfare lets say
> 
> But seriously, the PA has done a superb job in covering up the loss of the PAF aircraft in P-O-K. Maybe our sust intelligence agencies can learn from this superior deception effort.


Not the P.A but the I.A, credit must goes to I.A and IAF.....only one success the have on 26 and 27 2 19 first they manage to hide the loss of SU-30 secondly IAF successfully manage to hide the black box of helicopter.


----------



## araz

Jochen Peiper said:


> *It is to the credit of the Pak Army and its associated arms, that the loss of a PAF aircraft has been covered up so well*. Kudos to them. Unfortunately, in the today's world with even the most lopsided buffoon is armed with a mobile phone with a camera, it's difficult to keep things under wraps. And as I see it, the pot is already leaking - *with images floating around on the social media about another plane going down in the P-O-K. *


It is a testament to Indian idiocy that in spite of no trace of the platforms debris, the OEM and the US Govt confirming PAF 16 inventory being intact that the Indians still religiously believe they downed a 16 from Abhi None done's plane which has 4 intact missiles to show the whole world and his statement that he was LOOKING for a target to shoot when he was shot down. But then you can believe on my friend.
A

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Windjammer

Jochen Peiper said:


> *It is to the credit of the Pak Army and its associated arms, that the loss of a PAF aircraft has been covered up so well*. Kudos to them. Unfortunately, in the today's world with even the most lopsided buffoon is armed with a mobile phone with a camera, it's difficult to keep things under wraps. And as I see it, the pot is already leaking - *with images floating around on the social media about another plane going down in the P-O-K. *


Yea as i said earlier your sole purpose to force upon your self that PAF lost an aircraft, well it's not going to do the IAF moral much good since they know the score well on who is hiding what. 
One MiG-21 shot down in Pakistan territory, pilot captured.
One SU-30 meeting a violent end near Srinagar,
One Mi-17 along with six personnel lost in dubious circumstances.
But somehow Indians have concluded what's happened across the LOC but can't decide how their own Mi-17 crashed right over their head. .....anyways keep trying.....or as they say, have a blast till you last.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SIPRA

Maarkhoor said:


> At sky you saw written it is Azaad Kashmir not IOK.
> 
> Ajj kiya dawai lena bhol gey thy?



Mujhay tau lagta hae, ke kuchh ziada he lay lee hae.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Peshwa

Flight of falcon said:


> Now let me get this straight:
> 
> Indians claimed 400 killed..... no proof found either satellite or on the ground of any damage at all. Indians lied and still sticking to their lie.



You’re going around in circles. I’ve already explained my position on the matter. Please go through my previous post. I’m not going to repeat myself.



> Absolutely not. Pentagon merely said they cannot confirm and are unaware. Buddy we have permanent attachment of US personnel literally counting every admonished and spare required. Do you think they won’t report back a plane missing? Pentagon does not comment on every shitty question Indian media asks.



Ok so Pentagon saying that no such audit exists or has happened is not good enough for you?
I’m still waiting for you to present any evidence of the OEM (Boeing) or state entity (Pentagon) confirming an audit and count of the PAF F-16s. 
Please present this and it will be case closed.
That should be simple for you given your confidence on this matter.



> Also the pictures above are funny. By your defence official? Same people who got plastered for showing F 16 parts and that turned out to be Mig 21.
> 
> It doesn’t even look like parachute. All made up nonsense. Do you know how the parachute looks



Not sure what this is, but I certainly didn’t post any pictures. 
All my points are based on publicly available information that everyone here is privy to.


----------



## SIPRA

Maarkhoor said:


> Not the P.A but the I.A, credit must goes to I.A and IAF.....only one success the have on 26 and 27 2 19 first they manage to hide the loss of SU-30 secondly IAF successfully manage to hide the black box of helicopter.



IAF may be renamed as Indian Avoidance Force.


----------



## Flight of falcon

Peshwa said:


> You’re going around in circles. I’ve already explained my position on the matter. Please go through my previous post. I’m not going to repeat myself.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so Pentagon saying that no such audit exists or has happened is not good enough for you?
> I’m still waiting for you to present any evidence of the OEM (Boeing) or state entity (Pentagon) confirming an audit and count of the PAF F-16s.
> Please present this and it will be case closed.
> That should be simple for you given your confidence on this matter.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what this is, but I certainly didn’t post any pictures.
> All my points are based on publicly available information that everyone here is privy to.




If it was up to me I will have a proctologist remove remaining bits of AMRAAM from Modi. 
As I said you dance around and don’t answer questions. Let it be that way. 

Pentagon and OEM will not comment on something that didn’t happen. To stroke your ego your guys can ask Trump and even he will say I don’t know. You can’t comment on things that never happened.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Maarkhoor

Jochen Peiper said:


> But what happened to your pilot who landed up in CMH, Mangla as per the DGISPR? I know its irritating when I say this, but that gentleman said this for 3 whole days. Now what do we believe - is he lying or is he the most inefficient general in PA? You're take...


Unfortunately that Sikh guy from IAF did't survive the injuries and died at CMH and his body returned back to India through red cross, We so have some goodies belongs to this gentleman like helmet, pistols and some documents.


----------



## SIPRA

araz said:


> It is a testament to Indian idiocy that in spite of no trace of the platforms debris, the OEM and the US Govt confirming PAF 16 inventory being intact that the Indians still religiously believe they downed a 16 from Abhi None done's plane which has 4 intact missiles to show the whole world and his statement that he was LOOKING for a target to shoot when he was shot down. But then you can believe on my friend.
> A



Indians might say that after downing F16, Abhinandan was looking for other targets; as if he had come out to hunt pigeons.


----------



## Peshwa

araz said:


> It is a testament to Indian idiocy that in spite of no trace of the platforms debris, *the OEM and the US Govt confirming PAF 16 inventory being intact *that the Indians still religiously believe they downed a 16 from Abhi None done's plane which has 4 intact missiles to show the whole world and his statement that he was LOOKING for a target to shoot when he was shot down. But then you can believe on my friend.
> A



When did this happen?
Exactly the link or evidence that I have been asking Pakistani members here.
Is this based on the Foreign Policy magazine article or is this something new?



Flight of falcon said:


> If it was up to me I will have a proctologist remove remaining bits of AMRAAM from Modi.
> As I said you dance around and don’t answer questions. Let it be that way.
> 
> Pentagon and OEM will not comment on something that didn’t happen. To stroke your ego your guys can ask Trump and even he will say I don’t know. You can’t comment on things that never happened.



This is ridiculous, seriously.
Your side claims that an audit occurred and that the US govt and OEM (Boeing) have confirmed that the PAF inventory is intact.
Pentagon has denied any such audit took place.
So please for gods sake, either present the report that confirms your statement or stop quoting me.
I don’t care whether you want to go up modi’s *** or not. That is your business.

I’m just concerned about corroborating the evidence that exists from the OEM and US govt that you’re claiming about F-16 audits. Which you have provided none of.
If you have nothing more to add, let’s leave it here and call it a day.


----------



## Flight of falcon

Peshwa said:


> When did this happen?
> Exactly the link or evidence that I have been asking Pakistani members here.
> Is this based on the Foreign Policy magazine article or is this something new?


 It’s based on Hindustan time report where Pentagon spokesperson simply said he is not aware of it. He didn’t say yes or no.... simply he is telling Indians to get lost with your stupid *** embarrassment and hide in a hole

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Peshwa

Flight of falcon said:


> It’s based on Hindustan time report where Pentagon spokesperson simply said he is not aware of it. He didn’t say yes or no.... simply he is telling Indians to get lost with your stupid *** embarrassment and hide in a hole



But where is your confirmation that the US govt and OEM confirmed the PAF inventory being intact?
Isn’t that the cornerstone of your argument here?

And the pentagon saying they are not aware of any audit is saying, No such audit took place. Thus shutting down the claim by Foreign policy magazine.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Peshwa said:


> You’re going around in circles. I’ve already explained my position on the matter. Please go through my previous post. I’m not going to repeat myself.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so Pentagon saying that no such audit exists or has happened is not good enough for you?
> I’m still waiting for you to present any evidence of the OEM (Boeing) or state entity (Pentagon) confirming an audit and count of the PAF F-16s.
> Please present this and it will be case closed.
> That should be simple for you given your confidence on this matter.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what this is, but I certainly didn’t post any pictures.
> All my points are based on publicly available information that everyone here is privy to.



Dear delusional pathological liar Indiot,

If you have a brain and the courage to question your delusional nation that if.....

2 R-77 were recovered
1 R-73 with tail section still stuck to pylon was recovered
1 R-73 with serial number that can be traced back to IAF inventory was also recovered....

Then how exactly did Abhi not done shoot down anything?

Trust me, its just Indian imagination just like their religion which is based on myths and lies. the sooner you accept the reality the better it is for your future respect. Just making up stuff to satisfy your ego is not the way to go in 21st century, you have to be able to question your government's credibility instead of blindly following it like North Koreans. 


btw, US is NEVER going to officially publicize anything that would hurt US-India relationship. And US does not have to physically count PAF F-16, they simply track it on their system which tells them when where what details about the F-16s..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Flight of falcon

All Indians know is to go to USA crying mommy mommy Pakistanis put AMRAAM in bapu’s Butt..... please yell at them... we are too coward to retaliate


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Peshwa said:


> But where is your confirmation that the US govt and OEM confirmed the PAF inventory being intact?
> Isn’t that the cornerstone of your argument here?
> 
> And the pentagon saying they are not aware of any audit is saying, No such audit took place. Thus shutting down the claim by Foreign policy magazine.



Indiot, that pentagon refuting Foreign policy research news is FAKE news made up by pathological liar propaganda factory bharat media. Show us ONE statement associated with pentagon supports Indian propaganda? 
Not even Russian or Isreali defence forums supports Indian propaganda.



Flight of falcon said:


> All Indians know is to go to USA crying mommy mommy Pakistanis put AMRAAM in bapu’s Butt..... please yell at them... we are too coward to retaliate



India is the only world super power that gets beaten up by small weaker nation and India has to beg other nations to do something against Pakistan. 
What pakistan did on 27th Feb was an ACT OF WAR and what does India or its allies does to Pakistan? NOTHING lol

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Peshwa

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Dear delusional pathological liar Indiot,
> 
> If you have a brain and the courage to question your delusional nation that if.....
> 
> 2 R-77 were recovered
> 1 R-73 with tail section still stuck to pylon was recovered
> 1 R-73 with serial number that can be traced back to IAF inventory was also recovered....
> 
> Then how exactly did Abhi not done shoot down anything?
> 
> Trust me, its just Indian imagination just like their religion which is based on myths and lies. the sooner you accept the reality the better it is for your future respect. Just making up stuff to satisfy your ego is not the way to go in 21st century, you have to be able to question your government's credibility instead of blindly following it like North Koreans.
> 
> 
> btw, US is NEVER going to officially publicize anything that would hurt US-India relationship. And US does not have to physically count PAF F-16, they simply track it on their system which tells them when where what details about the F-16s..



@araz 
Are you not claiming that PAF F-16s inventory were confirmed by the US govt and OEM? I’ve quoted your post previously on this matter.
How were they confirmed? Has that been made public, since you guys are making strong statements here.
The loss of a PAF F-16 can only be confirmed in 3 ways:
1. PAF
2. US govt. or OEM
3. If the wreckage is in Indian territory.

Since 1 obviously has skin in the game (akin to SU-30 being shot down), let’s 
put that out of contention.
3. Obviously cannot happen since the wreckage isn’t with India, again a parallel to SU-30 scenario.

So only the US can confirm this and I repeat, I haven’t seen any report from the US that supports the ACM statement.


----------



## Flight of falcon

Jochen Peiper said:


> Well talking of propaganda, OP SWIFT DISTORT by the DGISPR is what's keeping all the secrets under the lid in Pakistan. We in India can only look in awe at his propaganda army  , until he slips once in a while, like he did for the second pilot in the CMH. Wonder what happened to him? Oh sorry, you said Alan Warnes is going to write about him....ok will wait!




Bro you need to stay quiet and watch the video of Spice 2000 damage.... raccoons living in my roof did more damage than your 6000 lb of HE guided weapons.... you guys are pathetic



Peshwa said:


> @araz
> Are you not claiming that PAF F-16s inventory were confirmed by the US govt and OEM? I’ve quoted your post previously on this matter.
> How were they confirmed? Has that been made public, since you guys are making strong statements here.
> The loss of a PAF F-16 can only be confirmed in 3 ways:
> 1. PAF
> 2. US govt. or OEM
> 3. If the wreckage is in Indian territory.
> 
> Since 1 obviously has skin in the game (akin to SU-30 being shot down), let’s
> put that out of contention.
> 3. Obviously cannot happen since the wreckage isn’t with India, again a parallel to SU-30 scenario.
> 
> So only the US can confirm this and I repeat, I haven’t seen any report from the US that supports the ACM statement.





Bro again why would anyone comment on something that never happened.... it’s like you going and asking someone if something smells.... decent people will say I don’t know .


----------



## Peshwa

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Indiot, that pentagon refuting Foreign policy research news is FAKE news made up by pathological liar propaganda factory bharat media. Show us ONE statement associated with pentagon supports Indian propaganda?
> Not even Russian or Isreali defence forums supports Indian propaganda.



How is the Hindustan Times report any different than Foreign Policy magazine report you guys are basing your claim on?
foreign policy magazine uses unnamed defense officials. 

Don’t see what’s giving you this fake confidence here.

I’ve been very clear that both f-16 being shot down and SU-30 being shot down are questionable and both stories have holes bigger than Swiss cheese.

So before jumping into the Frey, perhaps do read the rest of my posts on this matter.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Peshwa said:


> @araz
> Are you not claiming that PAF F-16s inventory were confirmed by the US govt and OEM? I’ve quoted your post previously on this matter.
> How were they confirmed? Has that been made public, since you guys are making strong statements here.
> The loss of a PAF F-16 can only be confirmed in 3 ways:
> 1. PAF
> 2. US govt. or OEM
> 3. If the wreckage is in Indian territory.
> 
> Since 1 obviously has skin in the game (akin to SU-30 being shot down), let’s
> put that out of contention.
> 3. Obviously cannot happen since the wreckage isn’t with India, again a parallel to SU-30 scenario.
> 
> So only the US can confirm this and I repeat, I haven’t seen any report from the US that supports the ACM statement.



Typical pathological liar delusional Bharati.

Yet again you doge from the fact that all missiles were recovered from Abhi's Mig-21 and you are clinching on something that can never be done like US officially releasing F-16 count. This will hurt India US relationship because BJPig government wants to save its humiliated face.

Now like a real MAN not a p0ssy come to the fact that.....

2 R-77 recovered
1 R-73 with tail section attached to pylon recovered
1 R-73 with serial number can be traced back to IAF inventory recovered.

This itself is enough evidence to conclude Indians are pathological liars who live in imaginary world to satisfy their fragile egos.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Peshwa

Flight of falcon said:


> Bro again why would anyone comment on something that never happened.... it’s like you going and asking someone if something smells.... decent people will say I don’t know .



Seriously, make up your minds.
One person @araz is stating that the US govt. has confirmed (this means an audit was done) as well as OEM (Boeing) that no F-16 was lost.
I asked for evidence of this statement and have received none.

Now you’re saying that the Pentagon officials would not comment on something that never happened.
So the audit never took place?

Like I said, provide a verifiable 3rd party statement which corroborates this.

My position is still intact and I stick by it. Only verifiable fact of this altercation are MIG lost and MI-17 lost to fracticide.
Every other claim cannot be corroborated without confirmation from 3rd parties (in case of Su 30, Sukhoi or Russia and Boeing or US govt for F-16)

I’m tired of going in circles. So unless you have something concrete to provide as I have mentioned above, I stand by my position.
Let’s leave it at that.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Jochen Peiper said:


> Glad to inform you that the Racoons will survive. Cheers
> 
> View attachment 562733



Vishnu the clan leader of Pathological liar bhartis.

Watch this video from 1:20. The target structure is perfect representation of Balakot structure which consist of metal roof sheets and brick wall. Notice that just like every other guided bomb, after penetration the bomb explodes resulting in complete destruction of underground and above the ground structure. 








Peshwa said:


> Seriously, make up your minds.
> One person @araz is stating that the US govt. has confirmed (this means an audit was done) as well as OEM (Boeing) that no F-16 was lost.
> I asked for evidence of this statement and have received none.
> 
> Now you’re saying that the Pentagon officials would not comment on something that never happened.
> So the audit never took place?
> 
> Like I said, provide a verifiable 3rd party statement which corroborates this.
> 
> My position is still intact and I stick by it. Only verifiable fact of this altercation are MIG lost and MI-17 lost to fracticide.
> Every other claim cannot be corroborated without confirmation from 3rd parties (in case of Su 30, Sukhoi or Russia and Boeing or US govt for F-16)
> 
> I’m tired of going in circles. So unless you have something concrete to provide as I have mentioned above, I stand by my position.
> Let’s leave it at that.



Indiot, its LOCKHEED MARTIN NOT BOEING that manufactures F-16s! 

Like repeated many times, US does not only has to physically count to complete inventory. ALL PAF F-16s are monitored 24/7 by GPS and other systems that alerts US of its use... This ensures that F-16 technology does not leak in the wrong hands.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Flight of falcon

Jochen Peiper said:


> Glad to inform you that the Racoons will survive. Cheers
> 
> View attachment 562733




Bloody idiot the whole building has collapsed. The impact shock waves goes side ways obliterating side walls and demolishing entire structure on its foundation. On the top it creates a hole.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Peshwa

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Vishnu the clan leader of Pathological liar bhartis.
> 
> Watch this video from 1:20. The target structure is perfect representation of Balakot structure which consist of metal roof sheets and brick wall. Notice that just like every other guided bomb, after penetration the bomb explodes resulting in complete destruction of underground and above the ground structure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indiot, its LOCKHEED MARTIN NOT BOEING that manufactures F-16s!
> 
> Like repeated many times, US does not only has to physically count to complete inventory. ALL PAF F-16s are monitored 24/7 by GPS and other systems that alerts US of its use... This ensures that F-16 technology does not leak in the wrong hands.



Ok I stand corrected, LM not Boeing.
But again, you guys are claiming this confirmation has been presented in the public domain by OEM. Which it hasnt.
So why not just show me this report and we don’t have to go back and forth on this. Simple.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Peshwa said:


> How is the Hindustan Times report any different than Foreign Policy magazine report you guys are basing your claim on?
> foreign policy magazine uses unnamed defense officials.
> 
> Don’t see what’s giving you this fake confidence here.
> 
> I’ve been very clear that both f-16 being shot down and SU-30 being shot down are questionable and both stories have holes bigger than Swiss cheese.
> 
> So before jumping into the Frey, perhaps do read the rest of my posts on this matter.



Big difference between Pathological liar Indian media and Pentagon corespondent Lara report.
One reports false propaganda to satisfy Indian loser ego after humiliation defeat and on the other hand we have LARA who has NO affiliation with Pakistan (btw she would have been arrested by now for such links) wrote an article to clarify reality from Indian myths. 

If Abhi shot down PAF F-16 then he would have been all over Indian media barging about his kill but instead like a good boy he is keeping his words that he will not lie when he goes back to India. Btw the Indian fanboys are still waiting for vir chakha award for abhi


----------



## Bratva

Jochen Peiper said:


> Glad to inform you that the Racoons will survive. Cheers
> 
> View attachment 562733



Have you seen the buildings of Balakot VS THE BUILDING OF HAMAS ? Comeon My Man, Try harder. HAMAS building was multiple story, much stronger building than the single story with weak foundation and tin shed

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## denel

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Big difference between Pathological liar Indian media and Pentagon corespondent Lara report.
> One reports false propaganda to satisfy Indian loser ego after humiliation defeat and on the other hand we have LARA who has NO affiliation with Pakistan (btw she would have been arrested by now for such links) wrote an article to clarify reality from Indian myths.
> 
> If Abhi shot down PAF F-16 then he would have been all over Indian media barging about his kill but instead like a good boy he is keeping his words that he will not lie when he goes back to India. Btw the Indian fanboys are still waiting for vir chakha award for abhi


Come guys, give it up. @araz and mods. Let us get a handle of this nonsense of Su. it is wasting time on this forum. Let us shut this down. There is never ending mudslinging going on.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Peshwa said:


> Ok I stand corrected, LM not Boeing.
> But again, you guys are claiming this confirmation has been presented in the public domain by OEM. Which it hasnt.
> So why not just show me this report and we don’t have to go back and forth on this. Simple.



Now can you also correct yourself 

that .....

2 R-77 recovered from wreckage
1 R-73 with tail section attached with pylon recovered
1 R-73 with serial number can be trace back to IAF inventory recovered

Meaning Abhi did not fire a single missile and NO F-16 lost and no NEED for pentagon LM or anybody to officially publish any statement. 

now correct yourself on this subject first and then I will correct you on your mini AWAC aka stealth killer Su-30MKI destruction by PAF F-16 AMRAAM 

Or can you only digest 1 truth at a time? it must hurt right?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## denel

Peshwa said:


> Seriously, make up your minds.
> One person @araz is stating that the US govt. has confirmed (this means an audit was done) as well as OEM (Boeing) that no F-16 was lost.
> I asked for evidence of this statement and have received none.
> 
> Now you’re saying that the Pentagon officials would not comment on something that never happened.
> So the audit never took place?
> 
> Like I said, provide a verifiable 3rd party statement which corroborates this.
> 
> My position is still intact and I stick by it. Only verifiable fact of this altercation are MIG lost and MI-17 lost to fracticide.
> Every other claim cannot be corroborated without confirmation from 3rd parties (in case of Su 30, Sukhoi or Russia and Boeing or US govt for F-16)
> 
> I’m tired of going in circles. So unless you have something concrete to provide as I have mentioned above, I stand by my position.
> Let’s leave it at that.


Can we all please back off. let us not waste time arguing. Enough BS has been spewed. Get a rest.

Enjoy a curry or what ever pleases you. No one is getting rich or better off by this BS.

Those who want to argue - my suggestion. Go and signup to volunteer on the front lines that is if you can survive a 6 weeks bootcamp to begin with.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Bratva said:


> Have you seen the buildings of Balakot VS THE BUILDING OF HAMAS ? Comeon My Man, Try harder. HAMAS building was multiple story, much stronger building than the single story with weak foundation and tin shed


better representation of balakot structure at 1:20 mark


----------



## Peshwa

denel said:


> Can we all please back off. let us not waste time arguing. Enough BS has been spewed. Get a rest.
> 
> Enjoy a curry or what ever pleases you. No one is getting rich or better off by this BS.
> 
> Those who want to argue - my suggestion. Go and signup to volunteer on the front lines that is if you can survive a 6 weeks bootcamp to begin with.



Why are you telling me this?
I’ve been very clear in my position that the Su 30 and F-16 scenario is unclear.
I haven’t taken a position on either nor have I stated my belief that an F-16 has been lost.

It’s Pakistani posters hell bent on proving their version of events.
So please, direct your advice to those posters.

And you’re right, it makes zero difference.


----------



## denel

Peshwa said:


> Why are you telling me this?
> I’ve been very clear in my position that the Su 30 and F-16 scenario is unclear.
> I haven’t taken a position on either nor have I stated my belief that an F-16 has been lost.
> 
> It’s Pakistani posters hell bent on proving their version of events.
> So please, direct your advice to those posters.
> 
> And you’re right, it makes zero difference.


It is to all. enough is enough. Get a life; if you want some action, come here; i will put someone in the cheetah cage which we caught last week. I am sick and tired of this Su-30 kak.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Jochen Peiper said:


> This is the GBU-28, a much larger buster bomb, with a 2200kg warhead



Spice-2000 is a guide kit for 1,000 lbs bomb, even 1/4 of destruction would still show some damage to the structure. Not some imaginary holes that only vishnu creates and fanboys like you fallow.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SQ8

Peshwa said:


> And I’ve been consistent throughout my posts (you can check them on this thread) that both claims of F-16 being downed and SU-30 being downed cannot be corroborated with evidence and hence we should stick to what can be facts that are irrefutable
> MIG 21 being shot down
> MI 17 being lost to friendly fire.
> Your countrymen insist on Saying the SU 30 is “confirmed” kill while F-16 is a hoax. I say both cannot be confirmed with certainty.
> My argument has been that except for the ACM statement, no proof has been presented nor evidence around the crash to indicate the SU was downed.
> 
> Don’t see what the issue here is except Pakistanis trying to shove their their version of events down others throats.
> 
> 
> 
> Does that apply to only the Pakistani armed forces or to those of any country?
> Again, it seems you’re taking Alan Warnes on face value because it suits your narrative.
> What proof has Alan presented except saying that the ACM confirmed it? That’s what I’m asking.
> My stand has been, I haven’t seen any evidence of a SU being downed. If you have it, I would love to see this. Especially one that Alan Warnes has seen to confirm this fact.


Agreed - and since there is no analogue to ACdre Kaiser on your side who can unabashedly and without bias investigate each claim and release the info for accountability authorities to act on it. The Su-30 will remain a mystery unless three months or three years down the line we find a prisoner exchange with a Su-30 pilot(as claimed by some here) or a F-16 pilot is listed dead due to some accident(as claimed by India).

What is known is that by third parties who don’t have any bones to grind. The Mig is down without having discharged a single weapon as is being claimed otherwise in certain Indian circles.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## valkyr_96

denel said:


> It is to all. enough is enough. Get a life; if you want some action, come here; i will put someone in the cheetah cage which we caught last week. I am sick and tired of this Su-30 kak.








Yeesh!


----------



## GumNaam

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Spice-2000 is a guide kit for 1,000 lbs bomb, even 1/4 of destruction would still show some damage to the structure. Not some imaginary holes that only vishnu creates and fanboys like you fallow.


THEY ARE NOT IMAGINARY HOLES YOU...YOU LOW CASTE CREATURE YOU!!! they are *vedic* holes. only upper caste brahmins with bodies saturated in gow jal can see it!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Flight of falcon

GumNaam said:


> THEY ARE NOT IMAGINARY HOLES YOU...YOU LOW CASTE CREATURE YOU!!! they are *vedic* holes. only upper caste brahmins with bodies saturated in gow jal can see it!




Bro I am all for fighting Indians for what they are but let’s stay away from any religiously offensive tone. I will never come close to making fun of any religion and as much as Indians make up things I will urge everyone to stay away from their religion whatever it may be.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Myth_buster_1

yah, put all the indian myth creators in the cheetah cage and post the video here


GumNaam said:


> THEY ARE NOT IMAGINARY HOLES YOU...YOU LOW CASTE CREATURE YOU!!! they are *vedic* holes. only upper caste brahmins with bodies saturated in gow jal can see it!


and with a chest size of 52 inches!


----------



## GumNaam

Myth_buster_1 said:


> yah, put all the indian myth creators in the cheetah cage and post the video here
> 
> and with a chest size of 52 inches!


You mean 52 inch thuns!


----------



## denel

valkyr_96 said:


> Yeesh!


That is a leopard not a cheetah . We had one a few months back as a visitor.


----------



## valkyr_96

denel said:


> That is a leopard not a cheetah . We had one a few months back as a visitor.


Yes....but your comment reminded me of the scalp flying.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## denel

valkyr_96 said:


> Yes....but your comment reminded me of the scalp flying.


yes. I will upload the photo when i go to feed it. i have to figure out where to take it to release it. I really love cheetahs - they are very tame even when wild; this one tends to come back always. I have to take it closer to 200km away.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## araz

denel said:


> Come guys, give it up. @araz and mods. Let us get a handle of this nonsense of Su. it is wasting time on this forum. Let us shut this down. There is never ending mudslinging going on.


Iam out mate. Dont have the time for this "yes it did, no it did not!"
A

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CriticalThought

Peshwa said:


> Yeah pentagon has denied any audit of PAF F-16s nor is it available for public domain. So not sure what confirmation you’re referring to by the OEM.
> 
> Or for that matter how Russia or Sukhoi as a company confirmed the downing of SU-30.
> 
> This is exactly the proof I’m asking for.
> Your entire premise is based on the Foreign Policy magazine claim that the Pentagon has shot down.



There are severe comprehension issues in your post.

The foreign policy article quoted 'American defence officials'. And the Pentagon officially started that it is 'unaware of such a count'. First, the American military industry is much larger than the Pentagon. Second, the official Pentagon statement has very carefully worded its response as being 'unaware'. This is very far from 'refutation' as you are trying to portray.

Finally, you failed to grasp my argument. I said, the original supplier country has refuted the Indian claim of shooting down F-16. The original supplier country of Su-30 has not refuted the Pakistani claim of shooting down Su-30. That is the difference between the claim of Pakistani ACM, and the IAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Ultima Thule

Peshwa said:


> One person @araz is stating that the US govt. has confirmed (this means an audit was done) as well as OEM (Boeing) that no F-16 was lost.


Already confirmed by pentagon corespondent for foreign policy no PAF F-16 were missing/lost and as for your information manufacturer of F-16 is Lockheed Martin not Boeing @Peshwa

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Deterrent

Windjammer said:


> what fear is causing India not to station it's SU-30s in Srinagar.







*Location: *Srinagar AFS
*DOI: *26th March 2019





Jochen Peiper said:


> Glad to inform you that the Racoons will survive. Cheers
> 
> View attachment 562733


Learn to differentiate between roof-knock strikes (using unarmed/dummy munitions) vs. penetration & general-purpose munitions.

*Facts:*
1. IAF used several SPICE-2000 SOW kits, attached on 2000lbs munitions. SPICE-2000 debris was identified in craters.
2. 3x craters were formed by those munitions, 100-200m off the intended target, observed in satellite imagery.
*
IAF Claims:*
1. 2000lbs penetration munitions equipped with SPICE-2000 SOW kits were employed.
2. 80% of the SOWs hit the target(s).
*
Questions:*
1. Why isn't there any damage AT ALL to the structures, visible in satellite imagery provided by planetlabs & ESI?
2. Why did IAF require multiple 2000lbs PENETRATION munitions against civilian structures built with wood/CGI sheets?
3. Why isn't there any damage to the structures visible correlating with a 2000lbs penetration munition (BLU-109)?
4. Why isn't there any damage to the structures visible correlating with a 2000lbs DUMMY munition?
5. When did IAF induct these 2000lbs penetration munitions? Who is the OEM?
6. Why doesn't IAF share the video feed of the SPICE kits, which have an optical IIR seeker with a two-way data-link?
7. Why do the 3x craters formed 100-200m off-target correlate with GENERAL PURPOSE munitions, not penetration?
8. If 3x SOWs (20%) hit 100-200m off-target, where did the rest of 12x SOWs (80%) hit?

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/were-indias-airstrikes-in-pakistan-a-strategy-for-public-approval/
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...strike-shows-how-hard-precision-bombing-49397

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Ultima Thule

Peshwa said:


> I asked for evidence of this statement and have received none.


https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114183187054366720

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## newb3e

indians are amazing their military has been caught lying to them fooling them and yet here we are these baboons arguing about down f16 because their lying piece of shit leader and military told them that it downed f16 without providing any proof!


----------



## ziaulislam

Peshwa said:


> I agree with your assertion, but in the same token, has anyone in Pakistan bothered to confirm the wreckage of the IAF Su-30 apparently shot down? If we are to go by PDF and for it’s resident Pakistanis, there seems to be zero evidence of this, but 100% conviction that it happened. Where is the Pakistani questioning of its Army and ISPR claims?
> 
> Your post, although earnest in nature wreaks of preaching without heeding to your own advice.


Many senior memebers and international observer dont consider second claim legitimate till more proof comes...but can you yourself or produce any india who not only accepts tht there is lack of evidence but evidence against f16 being shot down(usa count)...
At least we have no evidence against su30 shot down claim but instead dubious IAF claims like balakot، mi17 fiasco going

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Psychic

Jochen Peiper said:


> Glad to inform you that the Racoons will survive. Cheers
> 
> View attachment 562733


holes in roof theory already debunked by int'l media based on sat images.
_
The image is virtually unchanged from an April 2018 satellite photo of the facility. There are *no discernible holes in the roofs of buildings*, no signs of scorching, blown-out walls, displaced trees around the madrasa or other signs of an aerial attack._
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...standing-at-indian-bombing-site-idUSKCN1QN00V

I know getting thrashed by a force having *9 times less* defence budget is not easy to digest.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Flight of falcon

ziaulislam said:


> Many senior memebers and international observer dont consider second claim legitimate till more proof comes...but can you yourself or produce any india who not only accepts tht there is lack of evidence but evidence against f16 being shot down(usa count)...
> At least we have no evidence against su30 shot down claim but instead dubious IAF claims like balakot، mi17 fiasco going




India has a lot to answer and pak


Jochen Peiper said:


> The SPICE debris, which was identified in the craters, was picked up from the north most target, where it was genuinely used. Moreover, the craters which the Pak Army showed are from a High explosive warhead and not a penetrator warhead. It been debunked in this article well -
> Look for the following in this article by an ex vet from IAF -
> 1. Shows 3 clear holes in at least one target in Balakot
> 2. Shows the difference between penetrator and high explosive craters - the one shown outside the camp is from a high explosive and NOT penetrator shell as used by IAF - exposes the cover up
> 3. The DG ISPR, took the foreign observers after 43 days to show the camp, and that too the actual targeted building was NOT shown, nor were the journals allowed to speak with anyone. read the article above
> 
> On the miss - this is a good read https://theprint.in/defence/austral...inary-holes-in-iaf-strikes-on-balakot/213970/
> 
> BTW, there is another theory, crazy as it sounds, but basis an eyewitness who was injured in that outside explosion - he heard aircraft BEFORE the explosions. Vishnu Som and Sameer Joshi (both professionals) in India insinuate that the PAF hastily bombed to create impression of miss. _It does sound stupid, but then a lot of things that happen under duress can be termed as stupidity._
> 
> 
> 
> Total 4 Spice bombs were used. 3 hit that target, 2 more on other targets as per article - https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/bal...mages-of-the-balakot-air-strikes-show-2006941
> 
> 
> 
> Because it was precision bombs of the penetrator version used. The other Crystal Maze was NOT fired, which would have shown those spectacular explosions - https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/exc...e-in-pakistans-balakot-by-mirage-2000-2028332
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know that. But probably to have enough bombs, maybe overlapping to ensure that maximum damage was done. BTW there is another report that the IAF has only the penetrator version of the Spice, purchased exclusively by bunker defended targets. So maybe there was a requirement to use more than one to get more effect. But not sure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-109_bomb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> The BLU-109 has nearly 250 kg of warhead as compared to the 80 kg on the SPICE. Both are designed to penetrate and explode, thats which the BLU 109 warhead explodes 20 milliseconds after penetration. The difference is that it would take 3 SPICE bombs to explode at the same time to have effect of one BLU 109 - which did NOT happen - so the building is still standing
> 
> 
> 
> RAPHAEL is OEM
> 
> 
> 
> No video feed from Spice in Auto mode. The feed was to come from Crystal Maze bombs, which stupidly were not fired. That also explains the 12 Mirages required. As per Vishnu's article the aircraft with Crystal Maze came back without firing. Very stupid in my opinion, they should have fired anyway, at least you guys would have had a total proof of the strike
> 
> 
> 
> The craters were formed by GP munition because Pakistan did not realise that IAF had used ONLY penetrators, so when the false explosions were carried out, the Pak Army )or PAF) used GP munition - which gives away the cover up well
> 
> As I said, half the M2000 came back. Rest fired 5 Spice bombs. All hit the Balakot camp as given in the articles above.
> 
> https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...strike-shows-how-hard-precision-bombing-49397
> 
> I agree with the author in the above piece. It takes more than precise weapons to achieve a hit. Thats why the IAF aircraft had to enter Azad Kashmir, probably to get the correct geometry of attack. And thats why the PAF SOWs had range errors as widely reported on Twitter by Indian sources. They fired everything well off the range. It would be good if the PAF releases the attack videos. Can shut people like me and the IAF for good.
> 
> And lastly - you showed Su-30s in a photo and asked why they are not positioned at Srinagar. Its obvious, there is no reaction time for them, in the same way that you will not position any F 16s at a base which is 4 min away if IAF decides to strike. Its not rocket science
> 
> Thank You
> 
> 
> 
> Sir all I am saying is at least take a look at this photo. I believe the authenticity of same because it is there on open social media for all of us to asses. Don't discount something away, just because its coming from an India. Similarly I take that claim by PAF of a Su 30 very seriously, looking for any debris or shoot down video on same.
> 
> Please refer the twitter feed -
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1123921210046320640




When kids are born they get slapped on their bum to clear their airway and get their digestive system going. You should
Have been slapped on your face for being too stupid. I decided
Not to read your post. We are talking about high explosives in thousands of pounds and no visible damage. I have seen pictures of suicide bombings with 10 kg suicide jackets and they blow the roof off the house or structure.

Here is the news report of visit 48 hours after the bombing. 






You and your entire nation has gone down the drain thanks to Modi and Modi’s armed forces. Instead of showing bravery you guys want to type bravery .. good luck.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Army research

Jochen Peiper said:


> The SPICE debris, which was identified in the craters, was picked up from the north most target, where it was genuinely used. Moreover, the craters which the Pak Army showed are from a High explosive warhead and not a penetrator warhead. It been debunked in this article well -
> Look for the following in this article by an ex vet from IAF -
> 1. Shows 3 clear holes in at least one target in Balakot
> 2. Shows the difference between penetrator and high explosive craters - the one shown outside the camp is from a high explosive and NOT penetrator shell as used by IAF - exposes the cover up
> 3. The DG ISPR, took the foreign observers after 43 days to show the camp, and that too the actual targeted building was NOT shown, nor were the journals allowed to speak with anyone. read the article above
> 
> On the miss - this is a good read https://theprint.in/defence/austral...inary-holes-in-iaf-strikes-on-balakot/213970/
> 
> BTW, there is another theory, crazy as it sounds, but basis an eyewitness who was injured in that outside explosion - he heard aircraft BEFORE the explosions. Vishnu Som and Sameer Joshi (both professionals) in India insinuate that the PAF hastily bombed to create impression of miss. _It does sound stupid, but then a lot of things that happen under duress can be termed as stupidity._
> 
> 
> 
> Total 4 Spice bombs were used. 3 hit that target, 2 more on other targets as per article - https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/bal...mages-of-the-balakot-air-strikes-show-2006941
> 
> 
> 
> Because it was precision bombs of the penetrator version used. The other Crystal Maze was NOT fired, which would have shown those spectacular explosions - https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/exc...e-in-pakistans-balakot-by-mirage-2000-2028332
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know that. But probably to have enough bombs, maybe overlapping to ensure that maximum damage was done. BTW there is another report that the IAF has only the penetrator version of the Spice, purchased exclusively by bunker defended targets. So maybe there was a requirement to use more than one to get more effect. But not sure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-109_bomb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> The BLU-109 has nearly 250 kg of warhead as compared to the 80 kg on the SPICE. Both are designed to penetrate and explode, thats which the BLU 109 warhead explodes 20 milliseconds after penetration. The difference is that it would take 3 SPICE bombs to explode at the same time to have effect of one BLU 109 - which did NOT happen - so the building is still standing
> 
> 
> 
> RAPHAEL is OEM
> 
> 
> 
> No video feed from Spice in Auto mode. The feed was to come from Crystal Maze bombs, which stupidly were not fired. That also explains the 12 Mirages required. As per Vishnu's article the aircraft with Crystal Maze came back without firing. Very stupid in my opinion, they should have fired anyway, at least you guys would have had a total proof of the strike
> 
> 
> 
> The craters were formed by GP munition because Pakistan did not realise that IAF had used ONLY penetrators, so when the false explosions were carried out, the Pak Army )or PAF) used GP munition - which gives away the cover up well
> 
> As I said, half the M2000 came back. Rest fired 5 Spice bombs. All hit the Balakot camp as given in the articles above.
> 
> https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...strike-shows-how-hard-precision-bombing-49397
> 
> I agree with the author in the above piece. It takes more than precise weapons to achieve a hit. Thats why the IAF aircraft had to enter Azad Kashmir, probably to get the correct geometry of attack. And thats why the PAF SOWs had range errors as widely reported on Twitter by Indian sources. They fired everything well off the range. It would be good if the PAF releases the attack videos. Can shut people like me and the IAF for good.
> 
> And lastly - you showed Su-30s in a photo and asked why they are not positioned at Srinagar. Its obvious, there is no reaction time for them, in the same way that you will not position any F 16s at a base which is 4 min away if IAF decides to strike. Its not rocket science
> 
> Thank You
> 
> 
> 
> Sir all I am saying is at least take a look at this photo. I believe the authenticity of same because it is there on open social media for all of us to asses. Don't discount something away, just because its coming from an India. Similarly I take that claim by PAF of a Su 30 very seriously, looking for any debris or shoot down video on same.
> 
> Please refer the twitter feed -
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1123921210046320640


Oh kakay, bunker buster vi bunker ich ghuss kay phatata hai, aur lohay ki chadder aur aam aeenth ka bunker 2000lb bomb say Mars pounch jaye


----------



## Ultima Thule

Jochen Peiper said:


> Bravery in modern combat is as good as dead!
> 
> Fighter pilots are system operators and fly their jets in a highly mechanical way. I fly an Airbus 320, its is flown following a set of procedures - caters to the dumbest of all pilots, one needs to just follow what is given the flight manual. Back to combat flying - BVR combat over the years is dictated with LR detection and weapons, which further takes away the element of 'bravery'. You fire a salvo of missiles and hopefully one of them will get the poor sod on the other side (if fired in NEZ) or a stupid pilot on other side does not respect the lethal zone of the missile. Technology is making the difference here, NOT bravery.
> 
> Fighter pilots need to be bold and calculative, yes require motivation and patience - but necessary don't have to be Brave. The game on offence and defence on both sides is to follow the right tactics - which will determine if you get a kill or be safe from your adversary. In some cases, one needs to have the presence of mind to withdraw against an enemy with longer range weapons and tactically come back in a different manner against him. Withdrawl is not defeat or cowardice, withdrawal is a necessary manoeuvre dictated by tactics. This is the new genre of air combat. We can possibly debunk the rest in our history books or when we give flowery commendation to a kill by a missile.
> 
> Abhi however displayed that spark of bravery. Which I feel is pig headed and suicidal, not called for under that circumstance. Obviously he was shot down, but look what happened - the PAF, in spite of having slip ups in Op Retort, managed to still achieve their aim - Why? Because one stupid IAF pilot crossed the LOC violating the tactics of BVR combat. So while it was 'bravery' displayed by Abhi in person, it was 'stupidity' in modern combat parlance and thats how probably most pros will look at this as. This off course in my personal opinion.
> 
> Unfortunately the days of an Alfred Cooke (read his superb account here - https://theprint.in/opinion/heroics...d-four-pakistani-sabre-jets-all-alone/234459/) and the worthy MM Alam, who in spite of the faux pax on the number of claim over Sargodha, is still the hottest Sabre dude in PAF's history, are unfortunalty over. Both Alfred Cooke or MM Alam, would have met the same fate as Abhi in today's combat scenario.
> 
> Yes Bravery is dead in Air Combat - welcome the cold, calculative and silent killer, who poses as the friendly next door fighter pilot in any air force of the world.


You came here only for troll, look at you post of only 49 and already get 2 negative rating @Jochen Peiper


----------



## Ultima Thule

Jochen Peiper said:


> I get negative rating sir, when I reply to comments which lack objectivity quotient, in similar language.
> 
> Thank You


You (india) lack logic/commonsense, whole world with us on FEB 27 and Balalkot strike @Jochen Peiper


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Jochen Peiper said:


> The SPICE debris, which was identified in the craters, was picked up from the north most target, where it was genuinely used. Moreover, the craters which the Pak Army showed are from a High explosive warhead and not a penetrator warhead. It been debunked in this article well -
> Look for the following in this article by an ex vet from IAF -
> 1. Shows 3 clear holes in at least one target in Balakot
> 2. Shows the difference between penetrator and high explosive craters - the one shown outside the camp is from a high explosive and NOT penetrator shell as used by IAF - exposes the cover up
> 3. The DG ISPR, took the foreign observers after 43 days to show the camp, and that too the actual targeted building was NOT shown, nor were the journals allowed to speak with anyone. read the article above
> 
> On the miss - this is a good read https://theprint.in/defence/austral...inary-holes-in-iaf-strikes-on-balakot/213970/
> 
> BTW, there is another theory, crazy as it sounds, but basis an eyewitness who was injured in that outside explosion - he heard aircraft BEFORE the explosions. Vishnu Som and Sameer Joshi (both professionals) in India insinuate that the PAF hastily bombed to create impression of miss. _It does sound stupid, but then a lot of things that happen under duress can be termed as stupidity._
> 
> 
> 
> Total 4 Spice bombs were used. 3 hit that target, 2 more on other targets as per article - https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/bal...mages-of-the-balakot-air-strikes-show-2006941
> 
> 
> 
> Because it was precision bombs of the penetrator version used. The other Crystal Maze was NOT fired, which would have shown those spectacular explosions - https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/exc...e-in-pakistans-balakot-by-mirage-2000-2028332
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know that. But probably to have enough bombs, maybe overlapping to ensure that maximum damage was done. BTW there is another report that the IAF has only the penetrator version of the Spice, purchased exclusively by bunker defended targets. So maybe there was a requirement to use more than one to get more effect. But not sure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-109_bomb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> The BLU-109 has nearly 250 kg of warhead as compared to the 80 kg on the SPICE. Both are designed to penetrate and explode, thats which the BLU 109 warhead explodes 20 milliseconds after penetration. The difference is that it would take 3 SPICE bombs to explode at the same time to have effect of one BLU 109 - which did NOT happen - so the building is still standing
> 
> 
> 
> RAPHAEL is OEM
> 
> 
> 
> No video feed from Spice in Auto mode. The feed was to come from Crystal Maze bombs, which stupidly were not fired. That also explains the 12 Mirages required. As per Vishnu's article the aircraft with Crystal Maze came back without firing. Very stupid in my opinion, they should have fired anyway, at least you guys would have had a total proof of the strike
> 
> 
> 
> The craters were formed by GP munition because Pakistan did not realise that IAF had used ONLY penetrators, so when the false explosions were carried out, the Pak Army )or PAF) used GP munition - which gives away the cover up well
> 
> As I said, half the M2000 came back. Rest fired 5 Spice bombs. All hit the Balakot camp as given in the articles above.
> 
> https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...strike-shows-how-hard-precision-bombing-49397
> 
> I agree with the author in the above piece. It takes more than precise weapons to achieve a hit. Thats why the IAF aircraft had to enter Azad Kashmir, probably to get the correct geometry of attack. And thats why the PAF SOWs had range errors as widely reported on Twitter by Indian sources. They fired everything well off the range. It would be good if the PAF releases the attack videos. Can shut people like me and the IAF for good.
> 
> And lastly - you showed Su-30s in a photo and asked why they are not positioned at Srinagar. Its obvious, there is no reaction time for them, in the same way that you will not position any F 16s at a base which is 4 min away if IAF decides to strike. Its not rocket science
> 
> Thank You
> 
> 
> 
> Sir all I am saying is at least take a look at this photo. I believe the authenticity of same because it is there on open social media for all of us to asses. Don't discount something away, just because its coming from an India. Similarly I take that claim by PAF of a Su 30 very seriously, looking for any debris or shoot down video on same.
> 
> Please refer the twitter feed -
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1123921210046320640




Indiots still imagining holes.... lol

Here is a video of IDAF testing Spice 2000 kits on concrete structures which resulted in COMPLETE destruction!

watch the entire video specially 7:10 mark where spice not only penetrates the concrete structure but also explodes in upward direction and if their was a light structure on top of it like in balakot it would have resulted in complete destruction!
Which part of these pathological delusional and liar Indiots not understand?







Jochen Peiper said:


> Bravery in modern combat is as good as dead!
> 
> Fighter pilots are system operators and fly their jets in a highly mechanical way. I fly an Airbus 320, its is flown following a set of procedures - caters to the dumbest of all pilots, one needs to just follow what is given the flight manual. Back to combat flying - BVR combat over the years is dictated with LR detection and weapons, which further takes away the element of 'bravery'. You fire a salvo of missiles and hopefully one of them will get the poor sod on the other side (if fired in NEZ) or a stupid pilot on other side does not respect the lethal zone of the missile. Technology is making the difference here, NOT bravery.
> 
> Fighter pilots need to be bold and calculative, yes require motivation and patience - but necessary don't have to be Brave. The game on offence and defence on both sides is to follow the right tactics - which will determine if you get a kill or be safe from your adversary. In some cases, one needs to have the presence of mind to withdraw against an enemy with longer range weapons and tactically come back in a different manner against him. Withdrawl is not defeat or cowardice, withdrawal is a necessary manoeuvre dictated by tactics. This is the new genre of air combat. We can possibly debunk the rest in our history books or when we give flowery commendation to a kill by a missile.
> 
> Abhi however displayed that spark of bravery. Which I feel is pig headed and suicidal, not called for under that circumstance. Obviously he was shot down, but look what happened - the PAF, in spite of having slip ups in Op Retort, managed to still achieve their aim - Why? Because one stupid IAF pilot crossed the LOC violating the tactics of BVR combat. So while it was 'bravery' displayed by Abhi in person, it was 'stupidity' in modern combat parlance and thats how probably most pros will look at this as. This off course in my personal opinion.
> 
> Unfortunately the days of an Alfred Cooke (read his superb account here - https://theprint.in/opinion/heroics...d-four-pakistani-sabre-jets-all-alone/234459/) and the worthy MM Alam, who in spite of the faux pax on the number of claim over Sargodha, is still the hottest Sabre dude in PAF's history, are unfortunalty over. Both Alfred Cooke or MM Alam, would have met the same fate as Abhi in today's combat scenario.
> 
> Yes Bravery is dead in Air Combat - welcome the cold, calculative and silent killer, who poses as the friendly next door fighter pilot in any air force of the world.



okay, so tell IAF to keep recruiting dumb pilots like abhinonedone.


----------



## Ultima Thule

Jochen Peiper said:


> Superb video.
> 
> But i'ts hitting a small tent, not a decent two storey building which the IAF claims was targeted. Thanks


International satellite experts said you hit nothing within few hours of Indian claims that you (india) killed 300 so called terrorists @Jochen Peiper


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Jochen Peiper said:


> Superb video.
> 
> But i'ts hitting a small tent, not a decent two storey building which the IAF claims was targeted. Thanks



PAY ATTENTION dumb pilot 
Watch 7:10 mark again in slow motion! you can see big chunk of concrete blocks flying all over the place.
btw, balakot building structure is made of typical house bricks and even multiple stories can not observe such high explosion! 

Here watch this video as well. At 1:15 mark... a 2,000 lb GB not only penetrates structure on top of bunker but after penetration it completely destroys it. a 1,000 lb GB would cause similar damage as well.


----------



## Ultima Thule

Jochen Peiper said:


> Superb video.
> 
> But i'ts hitting a small tent, not a decent two storey building which the IAF claims was targeted. Thanks


and don't troll man its clearly single story concrete bunker, are you blind or something @Jochen Peiper 



Myth_buster_1 said:


> PAY ATTENTION dumb pilot
> Watch 7:10 mark again in slow motion! you can see big chunk of concrete blocks flying all over the place.


@Jochen Peiper is trolling bro because it is not his fault @Myth_buster_1

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

Jochen Peiper said:


> Apologies indeed, missed this one, saw the tented place first. Can only be explained that the fuse is set to explode on contact - with no delay.
> 
> The IAF says - their bombs were set to explode after penetrating two stories down and then exploding :
> 
> View attachment 562817
> View attachment 562818


dude don't be ridiculous its clearly a penetrator clearly detonated few milliseconds after penetrating concrete bunker and From @Myth_buster_1 second clips there are many penetrator bombs take look after they they also deform exterior after exploding inside the structure, now tell me that after exploding there were no signs of deformation of exterios of Balakot structure is there IAF using some Vedic tech on Spice 2000 to avoid deformation of exterior of balakot structure @Jochen Peiper


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Jochen Peiper said:


> Apologies indeed, missed this one, saw the tented place first. Can only be explained that the fuse is set to explode on contact - with no delay.
> 
> The IAF says - their bombs were set to explode after penetrating two stories down and then exploding :
> 
> View attachment 562817
> View attachment 562818




Watch this ROK AF dropping 2,000 lbs GB on a structure exactly described in Indian interpretation of the event. 

Not only this 2,000 lb GB penetrates 2 levels but also 3 levels and completely destroys the structure above it! Had the structure below level 1 been underground it would have caused even more damage to the above structure because the energy would escape through the opening gap by GB penetration. 
Even though this is a 2,000 lb a 1,000 lb would have cause same amount of damage. 







Watch 1:10

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Shabi1

Jochen Peiper said:


> Apologies indeed, missed this one, saw the tented place first. Can only be explained that the fuse is set to explode on contact - with no delay.
> 
> The IAF says - their bombs were set to explode after penetrating two stories down and then exploding :
> 
> View attachment 562817
> View attachment 562818



Please don't embarres yourself further feel sorry for you guys. Give it a rest.




Sushma Swaraj already clarified no one killed.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...strike-sushma-swaraj/articleshow/68941123.cms

InAF giving excuse of faulty software for missing targets. Can't find the original Indian source for it right now, maybe pulled down but do give it a read.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1959307/1-iaf-tacitly-admits-balakot-airstrike-not-go-according-plan/

Some non Pakistani links on analysis of damage. Balakot strikes have been rebuffed by neutral sources.
https://graphics.reuters.com/INDIA-KASHMIR/010090XM162/index.html
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/were-indias-airstrikes-in-pakistan-a-strategy-for-public-approval/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

Shabi1 said:


> Please don't embarres yourself further feel sorry for you guys. Give it a rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sushma Swaraj already clarified no one killed.
> https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...strike-sushma-swaraj/articleshow/68941123.cms
> 
> InAF giving excuse of faulty software for missing targets. Can't find the original Indian source for it right now, maybe pulled down but do give it a read.
> https://tribune.com.pk/story/1959307/1-iaf-tacitly-admits-balakot-airstrike-not-go-according-plan/


Bro then @Jochen Peiper denying you on that sushma was not trying say no CIVILIAN doesn't means 300 terrorists in Blaakot @Shabi1


----------



## Flight of falcon

pakistanipower said:


> Bro then @Jochen Peiper denying you on that sushma was not trying say no CIVILIAN doesn't means 300 terrorists in Blaakot @Shabi1




I gotta give a credit to Jochen for being consistently clueless and stubbornly pushing Modi’s version of strike. Guys we can’t see the strike damage bcs it was cloudy and satellite couldn’t see anything while we erected buildings all over again. Once the cloud cover was gone we had a already erased any sign of damage. 
Jochen will direct the next Bollywood movie on SoSO strike.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Ultima Thule

Jochen Peiper said:


> Sir, this is a 5,000 lbs GBU-28 and NOT a 2,000 lb bomb like SPICE 2000
> 
> 
> 
> No, *the 2,000 lbs SPICE would have caused less damage than the GBU-28 *- *because Spice has less explosive charge at 80 kg, while the GBU - 28 has a explosive content of 286 kg. *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-28
> 
> So maybe 3.5 SPICE 2000 bombs would be needed to do a similar damage. And that too as I think, falling at the same time.
> 
> Thanks


whether its 5000 LBS GBU 28 or 2000 LBS Spice-2000 effets remains same, look at second cilp posted by @Myth_buster_1 there are lots of similar precision guided munitions only at vast and smaller scales, and pressure from detonations inside structure should deform balakot structure, so where are the deformation balakot exterior structure, your all justification are ridiculous @Jochen Peiper



Jochen Peiper said:


> No, *the 2,000 lbs SPICE would have caused less damage than the GBU-28 *- *because Spice has less explosive charge at 80 kg,*


wow what your source troll 2000 LBS precision guided munitions has only 80 kg of explosive charge what are you talking about @Jochen Peiper

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Myth_buster_1

pakistanipower said:


> whether its 5000 LBS GBU 28 or 2000 LBS Spice-2000 effets remains same, look at second cilp posted by @Myth_buster_1 there are lots of similar precision guided munitions only at vast and smaller scales, and pressure from detonations inside structure should deform balakot structure, so where are the deformation balakot exterior structure, your all justification are ridiculous @Jochen Peiper
> 
> 
> wow what your source troll 2000 LBS precision guided munitions has only 80 kg of explosive charge what are you talking about @Jochen Peiper




I dont know if this guy deleted his post or mods did but to answer his stupid post...

MK-82 is a 1,000 lbs with 80kg filling weight used by Spice 1000 
and Mk-84 is a 2,000lbs but with a much higher filling weight of 430kg used by Spice 2000.
GBU-28 is 5,000lb penetrator with most of the weight being steel and some sources says it has about same amount of explosives as Mk84. 

Do you guys see what these Indians are doing? They are just distorting facts and figures to suite their narrative. Indiots are claiming Spice-2000 has only 80kg of explosives but are not mentioning to their brainwashed bhartis that Spice-2000 uses MK-84 not Mk-82 which has less filling weight. 
And the funny thing is, they do it so passionately thats why they are called pathological liars.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ultima Thule

Myth_buster_1 said:


> I dont know if this guy deleted his post or mods did but to answer his stupid post...
> 
> MK-82 is a 1,000 lbs with 80kg filling weight used by Spice 1000
> and Mk-84 is a 2,000lbs but with a much higher filling weight of 430kg used by Spice 2000.
> GBU-28 is 5,000lb penetrator with most of the weight being steel and some sources says it has about same amount of explosives as Mk84.
> 
> Do you guys see what these Indians are doing? They are just distorting facts and figures to suite their narrative. Indiots are claiming Spice-2000 has only 80kg of explosives but are not mentioning to their brainwashed bhartis that Spice-2000 uses MK-84 not Mk-82 which has less filling weight.
> And the funny thing is, they do it so passionately thats why they are called pathological liars.


Mod banned him and delete his all posts and threads from all over PDF @Myth_buster_1


----------



## Myth_buster_1

pakistanipower said:


> Mod banned him and delete his all posts and threads from all over PDF @Myth_buster_1



awwww, i am gonna miss busting his myths.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

Myth_buster_1 said:


> awwww, i am gonna miss busting his myths.


Yes i missed him to it is fun to burst Indian bubbles @Myth_buster_1


----------



## The Deterrent

> The SPICE debris, which was identified in the craters, was picked up from the north most target, where it was genuinely used. Moreover, the craters which the Pak Army showed are from a High explosive warhead and not a penetrator warhead. It been debunked in this article well -
> 
> Look for the following in this article by an ex vet from IAF -
> 1. Shows 3 clear holes in at least one target in Balakot
> 2. Shows the difference between penetrator and high explosive craters - the one shown outside the camp is from a high explosive and NOT penetrator shell as used by IAF - exposes the cover up
> 3. The DG ISPR, took the foreign observers after 43 days to show the camp, and that too the actual targeted building was NOT shown, nor were the journals allowed to speak with anyone. read the article above
> 
> On the miss - this is a good read https://theprint.in/defence/austral...inary-holes-in-iaf-strikes-on-balakot/213970/


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bala...jaish-terror-camp.608161/page-5#post-11280830
I have comprehensively debunked Sameer Joshi's article in the post linked above. Furthermore, Joshi, Som, Bhat and others have changed their story so many times that his effort seems to be directed towards saving the face of IAF, by hook or by crook. From "locating holes" in the 30x30m shelter to it being not the target at all to "fuel air explosives" to "mass graves"...it has been a pathetic display. Joshi's latest revelation (pinned tweet) are single-pixel wide image artifacts that he terms as 'new holes identified'. Too bad that a _gora _put him in his place, _pronto_.

The reason for the camp being not shown to the journalists is simple. Pakistani narrative denies the existence of any JeM camp at the said location, and Indian intelligence already has photos from inside the camp. If the journalists took photos before "sanitization", it would have corroborated India's claims of the facility being a JeM camp.



> BTW, there is another theory, crazy as it sounds, but basis an eyewitness who was injured in that outside explosion - he heard aircraft BEFORE the explosions. Vishnu Som and Sameer Joshi (both professionals) in India insinuate that the PAF hastily bombed to create impression of miss. _It does sound stupid, but then a lot of things that happen under duress can be termed as stupidity._


Stupid theories is all the Indian military brass has at the moment. Pakistan has EVIDENCE...simple. There is a reason why one adversary kept changing its stories and finding "holes", while the other stuck to its version first presented 6 hours after the strike. There is a reason why all the neutral experts outside the subcontinent agree with the Pakistani version of events.



> Because it was precision bombs of the penetrator version used. The other Crystal Maze was NOT fired, which would have shown those spectacular explosions - https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/exc...e-in-pakistans-balakot-by-mirage-2000-2028332


Another bullsh*t theory. Allow me to expand on it.

Listen up you dumb non-Indian military folks all over the world. India has introduced a new _TACTIC _of air-strikes. First, the _Vayu Sena_ drops 2000lbs "bunker busters" with 150lbs explosive _onlee_, to kill the terrorists _onlee _and keep the structure perfectly intact. But since SPICE-2000's IIR seeker doesn't provide Bollywood-grade film footage so it plans to additionally drop Crystal Maze on the SAME targets to bring them down completely. Then why drop "penetrator" SPICE-2000s in the first place on a non-hardened civilian target, you ask?
Because Crystal Maze SOWs record each others _item number _before they hit the buildings and end the shot with spectacular fireworks, just like in a Bollywood film's grandiose ending. 

Rafael representatives must be cursing themselves.



> Don't know that. But probably to have enough bombs, maybe overlapping to ensure that maximum damage was done. BTW there is another report that the IAF has only the penetrator version of the Spice, purchased exclusively by bunker defended targets. So maybe there was a requirement to use more than one to get more effect. But not sure


SPICE is a freakin strap-down SOW kit. A KIT. Their is no penetrator VERSION of the SPICE. It is simply a SOW kit, compatible with different munitions (mainly 1000lbs and 2000lbs munitions). It is up to the customer to choose whatever munition it desires (compatible with SPICE).



> RAPHAEL is OEM


Rafael is the OEM of SPICE, not the munition. I asked who is the OEM of the so-called "penetrator" munition that IAF possesses.



> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-109_bomb
> The BLU-109 has nearly 250 kg of warhead as compared to the 80 kg on the SPICE. Both are designed to penetrate and explode, thats which the BLU 109 warhead explodes 20 milliseconds after penetration. The difference is that it would take 3 SPICE bombs to explode at the same time to have effect of one BLU 109 - which did NOT happen - so the building is still standing


Pffft, so the mighty Vayu Sena PERFECTLY calculated the overpressure so that 3x 2000lbs bombs won't destroy a structure, but kill EVERYONE inside. Do you mind plugging in the new values into Sameer Joshi's "calculations"? Can you kindly tell me the resultant overpressure value?



> No video feed from Spice in Auto mode. The feed was to come from Crystal Maze bombs, which stupidly were not fired. That also explains the 12 Mirages required. As per Vishnu's article the aircraft with Crystal Maze came back without firing. Very stupid in my opinion, they should have fired anyway, at least you guys would have had a total proof of the strike


Again, why not use JUST Crystal Maze, if they could've done the same job PLUS bring down the buildings? Why waste the SPICE "penetrators"? Alas, IAF and its requirements for Bollywood-style item number footage left its face hanging with shame. 



> The craters were formed by GP munition because Pakistan did not realise that IAF had used ONLY penetrators, so when the false explosions were carried out, the Pak Army )or PAF) used GP munition - which gives away the cover up well.


PAF has to be the most quickly responding air force in world's history then.
Step aside folks, apparently PAF had sent aircrafts armed with 2000lbs PGMs to INTERCEPT IAF aircrafts over LoC...
figured out where the tiny SOWs were headed...
followed them and arrived over Balakot...
carried out _pronto _Bomb Damage Assessment...
randomly bombed the surrounding area...
at EXACTLY the same time IAF's SOWs struck Balakot. 

YES, read it again dumb non-Indians. Oh wait, does that mean PAF is way better than IAF? 



> And thats why the PAF SOWs had range errors as widely reported on Twitter by Indian sources. They fired everything well off the range. It would be good if the PAF releases the attack videos. Can shut people like me and the IAF for good.


PAF never intended to hit any military target, period.



> And lastly - you showed Su-30s in a photo and asked why they are not positioned at Srinagar. Its obvious, there is no reaction time for them, in the same way that you will not position any F 16s at a base which is 4 min away if IAF decides to strike. Its not rocket science


Ugh I'm face palm-ing so hard. Read my post again. Windy said the IAF moved Su-30s away, whereas the fact is the Su-30s have been there since February 27th.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## KhanBaba2

Oscar said:


> They did, confirmed via NCTR and RWR signature that went kaput ..we just haven’t released info.
> Wait for next air forces monthly issue, it will be published



Anything yet ?


----------



## Flight of falcon

Latest breaking news:

Missing Indian aircraft abducted by the aliens.... no shit.... read it yourself from Indian media:


https://jang.com.pk/news/647593-indian-news-channels-foolishness-became-funny-for-everyone


----------



## Silicon0000

Flight of falcon said:


> Latest breaking news:
> 
> Missing Indian aircraft abducted by the aliens.... no shit.... read it yourself from Indian media:
> 
> 
> https://jang.com.pk/news/647593-indian-news-channels-foolishness-became-funny-for-everyone



PK in action


----------



## GriffinsRule

Flight of falcon said:


> Latest breaking news:
> 
> Missing Indian aircraft abducted by the aliens.... no shit.... read it yourself from Indian media:
> 
> 
> https://jang.com.pk/news/647593-indian-news-channels-foolishness-became-funny-for-everyone


Thats a refreshing change from them. They didnt blame the ISI at least


----------



## GumNaam

GriffinsRule said:


> Thats a refreshing change from them. They didnt blame the ISI at least


they actually did...said that ISI agents went on Chinese spaceships and then used a wormhole to go into another dimension to recruit aliens...ISI ki aik aur napak sajish!!!


----------



## Vortex

Dadizonline said:


> I think you missed some
> 1 squadron of MiG29 were shot down by Mirage3/V of PAF
> 1 squadron of Su30MKI by JF17 and one IL78MKI by JF17




No. Give credit where credit is due : indians poilets crashed them in order to avoiding being shot down by PAF.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Vortex said:


> No. Give credit where credit is due : indians poilets crashed them in order to avoiding being shot down by PAF.


thank u 4 admitting iaf losses

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Vortex

Myth_buster_1 said:


> thank u 4 admitting iaf losses



I hope you got my point that I was talking about full squadrons mentioned by dadizonline



Dadizonline said:


> Yes and PAF also destroyed Indian Navy's kilo class Submarine, one Kolkata class destroyers at same day using mighty JF17 carrying PL5E and SD10




Please use correct tense: will destroy!

Thanks

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Dadizonline said:


> Yes and PAF also destroyed Indian Navy's kilo class Submarine, one Kolkata class destroyers at same day using mighty JF17 carrying PL5E and SD10


No those were your own Fuk ups.

You also forgot mi-17 party.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## TsAr

Dadizonline said:


> Yes and PAF also destroyed Indian Navy's kilo class Submarine, one Kolkata class destroyers at same day using mighty JF17 carrying PL5E and SD10


We dont need to destroy IN ships, your incompetent sailors are going to burn them down themselves.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Flight of falcon

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> No those were your own Fuk ups.
> 
> You also forgot mi-17 party.





TsAr said:


> We dont need to destroy IN ships, your incompetent sailors are going to burn them down themselves.





They ordered pizza delivery underwater and opened their nuclear submarine hatch. Result we all know.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Taimur Khurram

Dadizonline said:


> At least it's better than having ISIS folks in navy or British WW2 warships



Good thing we have neither. 



Dadizonline said:


> armed with Chinese weapons



Chinese weapons proved their worth in February.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Arsalan 345

There is absolutely no proof of su-30 kill and even f-16 kill.radar images and assumptions don't bring down a plane.i think we have no proof just like indians.


----------



## zulu

Its like how we destroyed INS Khukri by PN Hangor


Dadizonline said:


> Like how you destroyed INS Vikrant by PNS Ghazi?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dazzler

Dadizonline said:


> https://www.samaa.tv/tag/mehran/page/2/ , https://www.militaryfactory.com/modern-navy/pakistan-navy.asp
> No SD10 or AMRAAM hit their targets, No PGM hit it's designated location
> 
> 
> Destroyed her own PNS Zulfiqar in same war thinking it was Indian and losing one and only port by some missile boats and yet claiming big things wow

Reactions: Like Like:
12


----------



## 1Paki$tani

Dadizonline said:


> =D that's why IK was requesting for peace after we changed rules of
> engagements?


He also delivered message it will be 3 for 1 missile. 

So after you guys called it act of war when we attacked your military targets; so you guys didnt have guts to do anything.

Your subs were detected anf Modi was day dreaming of Rafale.

Perhaps you should pay attention to his moaning and mourning.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Taimur Khurram

Dadizonline said:


> No SD10 or AMRAAM hit their targets, No PGM hit it's designated location



Why? Because India said so?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

Dadizonline said:


> =D that's why IK was requesting for peace after we changed rules of
> engagements?



Stop fooling yourself kid. Your air force is demoralized to the gutter level. They'll not dare any misadventure on their own anytime soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## untitled

Dadizonline said:


> after we changed rules of
> engagements?


Why did you have to change the rules of engagement? Lost confidence in your Vayu Sena already?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Dadizonline said:


> We don't have guts and we separated half of you country wonder what could happen if someone with guts attack Pakistan.
> 
> No, because your own general said so (except for one) yes one MiG21 went down but what about that Israeli pilot who was flying Indian (Russian origin) aircraft that day?








Really????????...........bangladesh is 1/6 the size of Pakistan. Less than 17% the size of Pakistan........ Since when did 1/6=1/2......indian logic at it's best........

You also conveniently forgot August the 14th 1947 when a Pakistani minority managed to rip, dismember and spread open wide the legs of mother india to create Pakistan from conquered indian territory . We took 35% of indian territory to create our nation and there is NOTHING indian kind can do to get that conquered territory back again.........

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## untitled

Dadizonline said:


> Like how you destroyed INS Vikrant


So is that now how you guys (Indian Navy) are levelling the score by having a mishap every other day?


----------



## Dazzler

Dadizonline said:


> PAF retreated having 24 combat aircraft against 8 of IAF and missed there ground targets too that alone explains who's "air force is demoralized to the gutter level" and after same day purchased PL15 on emergency basis


There goes the fantasy parade.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Dadizonline said:


> PAF retreated having 24 combat aircraft against 8 of IAF and missed there ground targets too that alone explains who's "air force is demoralized to the gutter level" and after same day purchased PL15 on emergency basis


 


Sure you did. You indians also claimed to have killed over 300 terrorists in Balakot and shot down an F-16........

Anyhow, how can india be defeated when indians were using the internet 10,000 years ago and inventing aeroplanes and UFOs 7,000 years ago :

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ancient-i...nets-radical-claim-raises-controversy-1481897

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/04/india-ancient-internet/558725/


----------



## untitled

Dadizonline said:


> if they tried this again IAF will no longer wait for permission to shoot


Lol. Your Vayu Sena had all the permissions to shoot back. They just chickened out. In fact last time I checked they were complaining we don't have a missile with range long enough to match the range of the AIM-120

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Dadizonline said:


> There is a huge difference between fighting and occupying or using divide and rule politics based on religion to divide the country, you're trying to be retarded I can explain it to you if admins here allow me





As retarded as indians claiming to have invented the internet 10,000 years ago and aeroplanes/UFOs 7,000 years ago?......:

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ancient-i...nets-radical-claim-raises-controversy-1481897

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/04/india-ancient-internet/558725/

So by your logic, india did not loose any territory in August 1947?????.........


----------



## Dazzler

Dadizonline said:


> my facts you consider fantasy is nothing compared to this



Your facts? Where?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## untitled

Dadizonline said:


> did you find any R77 which war fired


Exactly. No R77, R73, or Mica were fired. Isn't that even more worrisome for the IAF considering the fact that even in the PAF version of events, the IAF jets had locks on PAF jets. Isn't this the very reason the Indian military lost all faith in the IAF and had to resort to threatening to launch long range surface to surface missiles



Dadizonline said:


> FYI MiG21 fired R73 because PAF was firing at MKIs


Indian Air Boss to MiG21:
Fire your R73 if you survive the AMRAAM

Indian Air Boss to Su30:
Once you dodge the Amraams run for dear life. Do not engage. Wait for Rafale reinforcements. We have a patch ready for you

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Dadizonline said:


> PAF retreated having 24 combat aircraft against 8 of IAF and missed there ground targets too that alone explains who's "air force is demoralized to the gutter level" and after same day purchased PL15 on emergency basis


Some retreating.

Bombed your POL dumps and tapped your brigade HQ.

Shot down your jets. All that in broad daylight.

And with a prior warning.

Tumhari keh l lay li aur ab pohchtay ho kya huwa?



Dadizonline said:


> Some politicians said means its fact every Indian believe don't force me to find mistakes of Pakistani politicians btw 72 "hoor" story is also real according to many.



But you believe in apsaras? In your case they would be african male apsaros lol.



> did you find any R77 which war fired? sure they complained about range so they are getting new missiles
> 
> FYI MiG21 fired R73 because PAF was firing at MKIs
> 
> 
> https://theprint.in/defence/claim-v...in-the-india-pakistan-information-war/198955/
> first of all read this




Unlike india, Pakistan doesnt fake shit.

Here is your mig-21s payload:

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Laozi

Dazzler said:


> Stop fooling yourself kid. Your air force is demoralized to the gutter level. *They'll not dare any misadventure on their own anytime soon.*



Will the next Pulwama kind of misadventure be carried out by Kashmiri Youths without Pakistani help/support/guidance OR would it be another false flag operation (as always claimed by your side) ?

If the guys who planned and executed Pulwama has decided not a repetition any time soon, then only peace will prevail till such time.

And if you think that IAF won't do another Balakot if there is a repeat of Pulwama then your strategic planners might disagree with you.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Laozi said:


> Will the next Pulwama kind of misadventure be carried out by Kashmiri Youths without Pakistani help/support/guidance OR would it be another false flag operation (as always claimed by your side) ?
> 
> If the guys who planned and executed Pulwama has decided not a repetition any time soon, then only peace will prevail till such time.
> 
> And if you think that IAF won't do another Balakot if there is a repeat of Pulwama then your strategic planners might disagree with you.


After 27 Feb humiliation.
Im sure your strategic planners have calmed the fk down.

Unless they want more thrashing.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Laozi

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> After 27 Feb humiliation.
> Im sure your strategic planners have calmed the fk down.
> 
> Unless they want more thrashing.



After 27th someone is literally begging for a meeting.

Why would someone who thrashed behave like the one who got a good thrashing ?

Someday hopefully people will start deducing using logic

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Dadizonline said:


> One R73 fired and it hits its targets whats point having lock-on and firing half a dozen missile when only one hit its target?
> 
> and I think we both know who was running for there life crossed just 6km inside enemy airspace and MiG21 along F16 was shotdown INSIDE Pakistani airspace


Which R-73? One abhinandan fired from his arse?
Did you turn the F-16 into mig-21? Like your media, politicians and people were lying about ADF & claiming your own mig as an F-16?

Do all those videos of Jf-17s chasing indian jets over kashmir lie too?

Are these ammunition and missiles from your shot down mig-21 also fake?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Windjammer

Dadizonline said:


> One R73 fired and it hits its targets whats point having lock-on and firing half a dozen missile when only one hit its target?
> 
> and I think we both know who was running for there life crossed just 6km inside enemy airspace and MiG21 along F16 was shotdown INSIDE Pakistani airspace


No F-16 got shot down so stop kidding yourself and the only ones to bug out and run for safety were your SU-30s and even then one of them got plastered.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Laozi said:


> After 27th someone is literally begging for a meeting.
> 
> Why would someone who thrashed behave like the one who got a good thrashing ?
> 
> Someday hopefully people will start deducing using logic


Yeah begging for a flight route too. And getting more humiliated.

Good thrashin.

Lets see some facts accepted by your own govt:

1) No casualties at balakot 
Before

A)300 killed lol.

2) Shot down jet is an ADF F-16, posting fake serial numbers.

Later: 

A) Turns out to be a mig-21.

3)Pakistans didnt target indian military installations.

Later: 

A) Indian military chief survived PAF knocking lol

4)sqd aldr shahzaz ud din

Later

A) Turns out indian clowns were posting pics of Group Captain agha.

5) Abhi-none-done shot down an imaginery f-16.

Later

A)





























Not a single other country believes your nonsense. Not even your american sugar daddy who accepted no F-16 loss.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Laozi

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yeah begging for a flight route too. And getting more humiliated.



Check with your any experienced foreign office guy.

*Humiliation is *when the route offered was turned down. 



​

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Laozi said:


> Will the next Pulwama kind of misadventure be carried out by Kashmiri Youths without Pakistani help/support/guidance OR would it be another false flag operation (as always claimed by your side) ?
> 
> If the guys who planned and executed Pulwama has decided not a repetition any time soon, then only peace will prevail till such time.
> 
> And if you think that IAF won't do another Balakot if there is a repeat of Pulwama then your strategic planners might disagree with you.



Papu just few days back an IED targeted your occupational forces at Pulwama.

L ukhar lay ab.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Dadizonline said:


> 3rd and 4th missile warheads?
> 
> Enjoy folks
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-73_(missile)#/media/File:AA-11_Archer_missile.PNG
> 
> find warhead in 30 seconds
> btw
> 
> *India attacked when our radars were off because of load-shedding we'll give you beneficial reply once we'll get the generator from China.
> *PAF was ready but it was night, no clear vision.
> *Failed to hit the ground target even using expensive PGMs. (We did that on purpose, it was about sending a message)
> *Failed to hit MKI even using multiple AMRAAM from 30km. (We want peace)
> *We have shot down two Indian planes and one pilot is in custody, one in hospital and one is still at large.
> *We have two Indian pilots one in custody and one in hospital.
> *We have one Indian pilot will be releasing him for peace purpose.













Dadizonline said:


> lol, what that foreign policy magazine you were talking about? Pentagon official refused they said anything about it.


Really? Can you post a link from pentagon statement?

Coz I couldnt find a single statement by pentagon on Pentagon or DOD website.

https://dod.defense.gov/About/Military-Departments/DoD-Websites/?category=Pentagon+-+Official+Site



Or even an american publication, can you also find a statement from US officials disowning foriegn policy interview?




Foriegn policy and Times still carry the story;


https://time.com/5564980/india-never-shot-pakistani-plane-kashmir/

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## untitled

Dadizonline said:


> lol, what that foreign policy magazine you were talking about?


Why not take Foreign Policy Magazine to court and sue them for defamation? Of course you have no case against them

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

member.exe said:


> Why not take Foreign Policy Magazine to court and sue them for defamation? Of course you have no case


How could they?
All they have is a statement by “Hindustan times” which mentions the “Pentagons statements” which doesnt even exist lol.

Ask him to post pentagons official statement. (They release it on their official website).

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## JohnWick

It is just Awesome....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Laozi said:


> Check with your any experienced foreign office guy.
> 
> *Humiliation is *when the route offered was turned down.
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Humiliation is begging for the route and getting an extended ban.

And than coming and licking your own spit.

After all the drama, did modi think Pak would just let the bugger use our airspace ?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## NA71

Dazzler said:


> View attachment 566257


 This is the best PAF patch so far

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TheTallGuy

NA71 said:


> This is the best PAF patch so far



Can any anybody give information on HUD data Display given on Patch


----------



## NA71

Dadizonline said:


> RoE is changed by your people that's why fired multiple AMRAAMS at MKI and ran away if they tried this again IAF will no longer wait for permission to shoot


 Ran away? Your own media reported SUs were busy evading AMRAAMS chasing them ...so who was running away instead of taking on????/



TheTallGuy said:


> Can any anybody give information on HUD data Display given on Patch


 Non expert interpretation is F16 locked SU30MKI

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TheTallGuy

There much more info on HUD Data Display pasted on this Patch....dont look at obvious Su-30MKI its the data of HUD that is important.

Height: 34250
TD Box: 4.0 (what is it? is it target distance?)
Speed: 377 (Actual Air speed?)
R: *Censored (What does it show and Tell?)
AL:200 (What does it show or tell??)
B:268 (What does it show or Tell??)
D:39.5 (What does it show or Tell??)
G.1.3 (This is I think Gs pulled..shows plane is light turn to right)
1.02 (What is that? what information does it give?)
54.6 (What is that?? is that range??)
0.38M (What is That??)
*
@Knuckles @messiach @airomerix

@Dadizonline

PAF used both F-16s & JF17s just like IAF used Su-30MKI, Mirage 2000i and MiG-21bisons..I respect IAF as a professional air force. PAF landed the upper cut and left hook on IAF that led to KO in the fight.

Word of Caution to all.

IAF went back to drawing board and is getting ready all sorts of testing going around...and soon will be back. lets say end of aug or start of sep this year...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dazzler

He comes from a country where the PM instructs the AF to use clouds as cover. The level of stupidity in India knows no bounds.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## untitled

TheTallGuy said:


> There much more info on HUD Data Display pasted on this Patch....dont look at obvious Su-30MKI its the dat


Why would PAF put classified HUD data on a patch?


----------



## Dazzler

TheTallGuy said:


> There much more info on HUD Data Display pasted on this Patch....dont look at obvious Su-30MKI its the data of HUD that is important.
> 
> Height: 34250
> TD Box: 4.0 (what is it? is it target distance?)
> Speed: 377 (Actual Air speed?)
> R: *Censored (What does it show and Tell?)
> AL:200 (What does it show or tell??)
> B:268 (What does it show or Tell??)
> D:39.5 (What does it show or Tell??)
> G.1.3 (This is I think Gs pulled..shows plane is light turn to right)
> 1.02 (What is that? what information does it give?)
> 54.6 (What is that?? is that range??)
> 0.38M (What is That??)
> *
> @Knuckles @messiach @airomerix
> 
> @Dadizonline
> 
> PAF used both F-16s & JF17s just like IAF used Su-30MKI, Mirage 2000i and MiG-21bisons..I respect IAF as a professional air force. PAF landed the upper cut and left hook on IAF that led to KO in the fight.
> 
> Word of Caution to all.
> 
> IAF went back to drawing board and is getting ready all sorts of testing going around...and soon will be back. lets say end of aug or start of sep this year...



Falcon n thunders HUD use same symbology. Let them guess which one was it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## untitled

Dadizonline said:


> but question is why ISPR said no F16 was used then accepted it?


Since you say an F16 was used then why weren't you able to find a piece of JDAM? With the piece of AMRAAM, the JDAM piece would have made your case stronger



Dadizonline said:


> JF17 will survive against MKI?


At this range I think it is the humble F7 taking on the mighty MKI


----------



## Path-Finder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1142371690762178562

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Mace

member.exe said:


> Since you say an F16 was used then why weren't you able to find a piece of JDAM? With the piece of AMRAAM, the JDAM piece would have made your case stronger
> 
> 
> At this range I think it is the humble F7 taking on the mighty MKI



Enough of this already

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1


----------



## Shane

TheTallGuy said:


> Word of Caution to all.
> 
> IAF went back to drawing board and is getting ready all sorts of testing going around...and soon will be back. lets say end of aug or start of sep this year...


Exactly my assessment too.

IAF Chief retires end of Sep this year. I'm sure he'd like a heros send off instead of the current humiliated status, specially after his services rendered to (wag the Dog) help the cause of Modi after suffering humiliation at the hands of PAF.

Modi may feel obliged to return the favor to let Dhanoa redeem himself barring Modi's devious Extremist Hindutwa background that Dhanoa may be ditched still in favor of better preparation after integrating of Rafael. 

So our assessment of an Indian response by September depends if Dhanoa gets the better of Modi or not... opting between his thug mentality or going with his mediocre stab in the back hindutwa self.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## untitled

Mace said:


> Enough of this already


At least my story makes sense. The MKIs were already running for dear life. An F7 could have easily sneaked behind one

As for the MKIs on seeing Amraams

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Shane

TheTallGuy said:


> Can any anybody give information on HUD data Display given on Patch










TheTallGuy said:


> R: *Censored (What does it show and Tell?)
> AL:200 (What does it show or tell??)
> B:268 (What does it show or Tell??)
> D:39.5 (What does it show or Tell??)
> G.1.3 (This is I think Gs pulled..shows plane is light turn to right)
> 1.02 (What is that? what information does it give?)
> 54.6 (What is that?? is that range??)
> 0.38M (What is That??)*



*R* is the Radar Altitude - censored.
As far as i remember from flightsim games, the following may be the bogey and its approaching demise. So the patch indicates he did guide it to the end after all , lol.
*54.6 (What is that?? is that range??)
0.38M (What is That??)*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Dazzler

We jammed/ spoofed their radars
Comm gear

Datalink too??

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TsAr

Dadizonline said:


> https://www.samaa.tv/tag/mehran/page/2/ , https://www.militaryfactory.com/modern-navy/pakistan-navy.asp
> No SD10 or AMRAAM hit their targets, No PGM hit it's designated location
> 
> 
> Destroyed her own PNS Zulfiqar in same war thinking it was Indian and losing one and only port by some missile boats and yet claiming big things wow


https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/maj...vy-warship-in-mumbai-1-feared-trapped-2057268
whats happening dude Indian Navy preparing for war with Pakistan.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Dadizonline said:


> or it's fake do anyone in this forum believe JF17 will survive against MKI? its just propaganda stuff to boost JF17 sales
> 
> 
> but question is why ISPR said no F16 was used then accepted it?



typical delusional indiot,
you guys have no problem believing in imaginary Mig-21 kill against F-16...



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> How could they?
> All they have is a statement by “Hindustan times” which mentions the “Pentagons statements” which doesnt even exist lol.
> 
> Ask him to post pentagons official statement. (They release it on their official website).



India has the best sources in the world, its called........ "according to sources".

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Taimur Khurram

Dadizonline said:


> No, because your own general said so







Dadizonline said:


> but what about that Israeli pilot



The military never claimed that.


----------



## Comfortably Numb

Reading some of the posts here it seems the Indians are starting to find their voices again. Took em three and a half months but gradually moving from shock into denial phase. Dont worry mates you will accept it finally. Meanwhile, keep denying. Will help you sleep better.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Dazzler

Dadizonline said:


> or it's fake do anyone in this forum believe JF17 will survive against MKI? its just propaganda stuff to boost JF17 sales
> 
> 
> but question is why ISPR said no F16 was used then accepted it?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Flight of falcon

Dadizonline said:


> or it's fake do anyone in this forum believe JF17 will survive against MKI? its just propaganda stuff to boost JF17 sales
> 
> 
> but question is why ISPR said no F16 was used then accepted it?


 Beta your air chief sleeps with stuffed Rafael toy to keep JF17 chasing his Sukhois in his nightmares. 
Did you know when Indian cadets go to sleep they are told to think of Rafael warna JF17 hamain gira jaye ga.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## NA71

Dadizonline said:


> or it's fake do anyone in this forum believe JF17 will survive against MKI? its just propaganda stuff to boost JF17 sales
> 
> 
> but question is why ISPR said no F16 was used then accepted it?


Bhai ISPR denied any F16 involvement in strike package.



Dadizonline said:


> or it's fake do anyone in this forum believe JF17 will survive against MKI? its just propaganda stuff to boost JF17 sales


 Off course JF17 will survive (IA) specially when MKI cockpit is occupied by IAF pilot.



Dazzler said:


> Falcon n thunders HUD use same symbology. Let them guess which one was it.


hahahaha great one. ISPR already said :


----------



## Thorough Pro

Don't twist what ISPR said, They said no F-16 used in cross border attack, they never said there were no F-16 flying CAP near border



Dadizonline said:


> or it's fake do anyone in this forum believe JF17 will survive against MKI? its just propaganda stuff to boost JF17 sales
> 
> 
> but question is why ISPR said no F16 was used then accepted it?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TheTallGuy

In HUD Patch Height is Dead giveaway!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GriffinsRule

NA71 said:


> This is the best PAF patch so far


Looks like it confirms Thunder killed the Su-30s. See the lightening markings similar to what the JF-17 carries =)


----------



## Thorough Pro

Just a little correction to your statement, and yes every sane person believes that Thunder is quite capable of fighting and coming on top of SU30MKI's. and proof is in the pudding









Dadizonline said:


> or it's fake do anyone "*other than delusional Indians*" in this forum believe JF17 will survive against MKI? its just propaganda stuff to boost JF17 sales
> 
> 
> but question is why ISPR said no F16 was used then accepted it?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Falcon26

Thorough Pro said:


> Just a little correction to your statement, and yes every sane person believes that Thunder is quite capable of fighting and coming on top of SU30MKI's. and proof is in the pudding
> 
> View attachment 566404



If the HUD confirmation of the kill exists and PAF hasn’t released it, then it’s a serious mishap. Not only would a visual confirmation neutered IAF’s insistence of no Su-30 down, it would also have been a massive marketing for JF-17 sales.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Falcon26 said:


> If the HUD confirmation of the kill exists and PAF hasn’t released it, then it’s a serious mishap. Not only would a visual confirmation neutered IAF’s insistence of no Su-30 down, it would also have been a massive marketing for JF-17 sales.



descalation sir


----------



## Dazzler

Close enough..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Flight of falcon

Dazzler said:


> View attachment 566409
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close enough..
> 
> 
> View attachment 566408




Indians still want to know if we spanked their *** with chappal or bata shoe...... as if they cannot tell it from the mark we left on their butt.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Falcon26

Myth_buster_1 said:


> descalation sir



If anything that would have served as the ultimate deescalation. The IAF was rendered irrelevant and the release of the footage would have incurred incurable psychological damage on the psyche of the Indian leadership & Air Force. The only thing that the feb 27th events exposed was the utter antiquity of Pakistan military’s information wing.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## araz

Falcon26 said:


> If the HUD confirmation of the kill exists and PAF hasn’t released it, then it’s a serious mishap. Not only would a visual confirmation neutered IAF’s insistence of no Su-30 down, it would also have been a massive marketing for JF-17 sales.


I think the people who need to know will know. PAF has reasons for not openly declaring the kill. Lets leave it at that. JFT currently is being aggressively marketed to a couple of countries. Lets see what comes out of it.
A

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Falcon26

araz said:


> I think the people who need to know will know. PAF has reasons for not openly declaring the kill. Lets leave it at that. JFT currently is being aggressively marketed to a couple of countries. Lets see what comes out of it.
> A



This line of thinking is what’s problematic. Pakistan can’t on one hand claim to have shot down an SU-30 and on the other hand hide evidence. This places you in the same category as India and her F-16 shenanigans.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Armchair

Falcon26 said:


> If anything that would have served as the ultimate deescalation. The IAF was rendered irrelevant and the release of the footage would have incurred incurable psychological damage on the psyche of the Indian leadership & Air Force. The only thing that the feb 27th events exposed was the utter antiquity of Pakistan military’s information wing.



This is what a lot of us have been saying all along. But the military thinks it knows all about propaganda. They are continuing to parrot old colonial era SOPs.



TheTallGuy said:


> In HUD Patch Height is Dead giveaway!


Where have you been Tall Guy? How are the *ahem ahem* car sales in Africa?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Raider 21

Thorough Pro said:


> Just a little correction to your statement, and yes every sane person believes that Thunder is quite capable of fighting and coming on top of SU30MKI's. and proof is in the pudding
> 
> View attachment 566404


F-16B Serial 606 claimed the mysterious Sukhoi kill. With a squadron leader at the controls along with an air vice marshal in the back seat.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TheTallGuy

Armchair said:


> This is what a lot of us have been saying all along. But the military thinks it knows all about propaganda. They are continuing to parrot old colonial era SOPs.
> 
> 
> Where have you been Tall Guy? How are the *ahem ahem* car sales in Africa?



Historically, drastic change is resisted the fear of unknown - 2 Kills and a helicopter was known territory because of Kargil..military knew what Indians can take and what would be calculated response...if they had openly claimed the decimation. response could be unknown...thats my take on it...although i vehemently disagree with this approach.

money is always problem while selling cars in Africa these days - while doing so i found out that we have 2 warriors who have more then 1 kill to there credit...





Falcon26 said:


> If the HUD confirmation of the kill exists and PAF hasn’t released it, then it’s a serious mishap. Not only would a visual confirmation neutered IAF’s insistence of no Su-30 down, it would also have been a massive marketing for JF-17 sales.



I can assure you HUD confirmation of Kill exist of MiG-21BISON and hit is observed in it.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> Historically, drastic change is resisted the fear of unknown - 2 Kills and a helicopter was known territory because of Kargil..military knew what Indians can take and what would be calculated response...if they had openly claimed the decimation. response could be unknown...thats my take on it...although i vehemently disagree with this approach.
> 
> money is always problem while selling cars in Africa these days - while doing so i found out that we have 2 warriors who have more then 1 kill to there credit...


are you still stand with your crap theories of downing of 8 IAF jets @TheTallGuy

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTallGuy

pakistanipower said:


> are you still stand with your crap theories of downing of 8 IAF jets @TheTallGuy



Yes! lets add something to it we have 2 pilots in our rank with more the 1 kill to there credit.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> Yes! lets add something to it we have 2 pilots in our rank with more the 1 kill to there credit.


Baseless, how about mishap, technical fault, friendly fire incidents just like they did with their MI-17 @TheTallGuy


----------



## Armchair

TheTallGuy said:


> Historically, drastic change is resisted the fear of unknown - 2 Kills and a helicopter was known territory because of Kargil..military knew what Indians can take and what would be calculated response...if they had openly claimed the decimation. response could be unknown...thats my take on it...although i vehemently disagree with this approach.
> 
> money is always problem while selling cars in Africa these days - while doing so i found out that we have 2 warriors who have more then 1 kill to there credit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can assure you HUD confirmation of Kill exist of MiG-21BISON and hit is observed in it.



So Tall Guy, you are finally tacitly admitting you have links to the PAF - ahem - through your car salesmanship in AFRICA. 

I believe what you are saying, and I am sure you're keeping cover for very good reasons.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTallGuy

pakistanipower said:


> Baseless, how about mishap, technical fault, friendly fire incidents just like they did with their MI-17 @TheTallGuy



Brother, 8 kills scored fired and hit!



Armchair said:


> So Tall Guy, you are finally tacitly admitting you have links to the PAF - ahem - through your car salesmanship in AFRICA.
> 
> I believe what you are saying, and I am sure you're keeping cover for very good reasons.



No @Armchair i am not a military man..could you believe with oath i would have taken and telling you openly..would get me to Court Marshall ASAP!

actualy i get the information from a friend who is a friend of somebody who is in service 

I sell cars in africa..its the truth i do not lie..

By the way Hats off to PAF for professionalism and discipline...you have to give it them...keeping quite/mum about about it at organizational level...is quite a feet!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dash

Osama was not in Pakistan according to Pakistanis mullah omar was not in Pakistan according to Pakistanis Kargil and 1965 was a win according to to them but CPEC is for development according to Pakistanis.

Why debate Indians ?

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1 | Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTallGuy

pakistanipower said:


> In your horrible nightmares @TheTallGuy



Its ok! do not be angry and frustrated with me..please!



Dash said:


> Osama was not in Pakistan according to Pakistanis mullah omar was not in Pakistan according to Pakistanis Kargil and 1965 was a win according to to them but CPEC is for development according to Pakistanis.
> 
> Why debate Indians ?



Sialkot airport is closed these days ..i think runway is getting repaired ..it is one of the longest runway in Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTallGuy

pakistanipower said:


> Because you have no solid proofs to prove it that you're right @TheTallGuy your name shouldn't be *THETALLGUY* by but its should be *THETALLBASELESSCLAIMSGUY* @TheTallGuy



Ok..please ignore me...i am a looney poster! by the way have heard and read about behlol the wise? aka "Behlol Dana"?


----------



## Armchair

My guess is the Iranians sent fighters to the Pak border not out of ill will but because they were confused what was happening. The EW was perhaps so powerful that their radars were effected.



TheTallGuy said:


> Brother, 8 kills scored fired and hit!
> 
> 
> 
> No @Armchair i am not a military man..could you believe with oath i would have taken and telling you openly..would get me to Court Marshall ASAP!
> 
> actualy i get the information from a friend who is a friend of somebody who is in service
> 
> I sell cars in africa..its the truth i do not lie..
> 
> By the way Hats off to PAF for professionalism and discipline...you have to give it them...keeping quite/mum about about it at organizational level...is quite a feet!




It would be hard for them to catch you in Johannesburg.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> Ok..please ignore me...i am a looney poster!


so why you spreading so much your nonsense conspiracy theories again and again, you should consider other possibilities too, most of their (IAF) fighter jets are old/high crash rates in IOK at the time of incident, why don't you thinks (consider) that it could be a possibility of technical faults/mishaps/friendly fire incidents @TheTallGuy


----------



## TheTallGuy

pakistanipower said:


> so why you spreading so much your nonsense conspiracy theories again and again, you should consider other possibilities too, most of their (IAF) fighter jets are old/high crash rates in IOK at the time of incident, why don't you thinks (consider) that it could be a possibility of technical faults/mishaps/friendly fire incidents @TheTallGuy



And why the "technical faults/mishaps/friendly fire incidents" are not happening now? with that rate...IAF would cease to be today.

its the 1st 20-30 seconds...when it was turkey shoot...immediate threats(CAPs) had to be dealt with to cover ingress of 2 x Mirage 3Ds and Iron Hand Escorts (JF17 B2) and then later selective shots at developing threats(Scramblers and interventionists from Mainland) to cover egress.



Armchair said:


> It would be hard for them to catch you in Johannesburg.



Africa is not only South Africa...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Armchair

TheTallGuy said:


> And why the "technical faults/mishaps/friendly fire incidents" are not happening now? with that rate...IAF would cease to be today.
> 
> its the 1st 20-30 seconds...when it was turkey shoot...immediate threats(CAPs) had to be dealt with to cover ingress of 2 x Mirage 3Ds and Iron Hand Escorts (JF17 B2) and then later selective shots at developing threats(Scramblers and interventionists from Mainland) to cover egress.
> 
> 
> 
> Africa is not only South Africa...



Good point. And why would the latter IAF fighters turn tail? Obviously they are not THAT cowardly, only if they got a real beating would they have lost their minds and did the ultimate. 

Yes, Africa is not only in South Africa, but my bet is that, if you are in Africa, you're there.


----------



## Ultima Thule

TheTallGuy said:


> And why the "technical faults/mishaps/friendly fire incidents" are not happening now? with that rate...IAF would cease to be today.


They were in emergency situations at the time of incidents (26/27 FEB) high tension situations where availability of jets were most important (neglecting maintenance) @TheTallGuy 


TheTallGuy said:


> its the 1st 20-30 seconds...when it was turkey shoot...immediate threats(CAPs) had to be dealt with to cover ingress of 2 x Mirage 3Ds and Iron Hand Escorts (JF17 B2) and then later selective shots at developing threats(Scramblers and interventionists from Mainland) to cover egress.


that would i called baseless assumptions of yours without single solid proofs @TheTallGuy


----------



## Dazzler

Dadizonline said:


> Heard about Adobe photoshop?



It's a screenshot from DCS video genius.


----------



## Rahil khan

Dash said:


> *Osama was not in Pakistan according to Pakistanis mullah omar was not in Pakistan according to Pakistanis Kargil and 1965 was a win according to to them but CPEC is for development according to Pakistanis.*
> 
> Why debate Indians ?


Kidoo intelligence agencies play cat and mouse games especially in a region in where so many vested interests are involved. United State like Pakistan are still playing there cards even today about Afghanistan. Presence of OBL inside Pakistan was part of the game plan but unfortunately it turned out to be the set back. United States is still looking for "honorable" exit from Afghanistan....despite raising the entire Afghan National Army and arming, training them to teeth from scratch, spending trillions with all international military forces participation along with Ajit Doval's filthy finger prints present all over in most Pak Afghan tensions but guess what?...TALIBANS ARE ABOUT TO TAKE CONTROL OF AFGHANISTAN AGAIN....!!

I don't mind if you are still living under rock and popping like many other Indians repeating nonsense over and over again. Even today Afghan government and Talibans are having peace talks in Muree few kilometers from Islamabad... WHY ? Because Pakistan has final role to play and unfortunately Indians can't do sh!! about it other than its traditional malicious attempts for destabilization with bloodshed.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

Dadizonline said:


> Where did he said MKI went down or backing any of your wildest claim?


and why you (India) claim our F-16, just verbal from your air chief, we have similar claim just from our ACM @Dadizonline


----------



## Arsalan 345

No mki went down.there is no evidence.we dropped bombs,they destroyed their own helicopter,our f-16s returned to our airspace but mig-21 wasn't spotted on time.we lost one f-16 but other f-16 hit abhinandan plane.end of story.our operation was successful only in the initial stage.overall satisfactory performance.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1


----------



## Ali_Baba

Arsalan 345 said:


> No mki went down.there is no evidence.we dropped bombs,they destroyed their own helicopter,our f-16s returned to our airspace but mig-21 wasn't spotted on time.we lost one f-16 but other f-16 hit abhinandan plane.end of story.our operation was successful only in the initial stage.overall satisfactory performance.



NO F16 went down. None, what so ever... where is the evidence for the F16 ???? Su30MKI was shot down.. what are you struggling with?


----------



## araz

Dadizonline said:


> Where did he said MKI went down or backing any of your wildest claim?


Losses, atrition, debacle. Can you not understand basic english? No where does he actually say loss! I stand by my stated position and say that the actual losses on IAF side on 27/2 were more than 2 possibly 3 and very unlikely 4. This excludes the helo that was lost due to friendly fire. If you collect all the news from Indian media on 27/2 you will get your answers. There is a confirmed news of another Bison going down around the same time reported by Indian media with footage of the wreck and a plane burning. The theatre is the same so sating this is a coincidence is very unlikely. I can confirm that it is not an SU but a Bison. This would make sense as the assetts sent to intercept match stated IAF positioning.
PAF has been very careful in detailing only CONFIRMED kills which can be proven and information has been provided through Third parties. Now you can continue to believe what you want to . Also consider the AIMC5 Which has been retrieved MUST HAVE been retrieved from a kill site ie the rear of a fighter. The MKI carcass is unavailable as it has not been retrieved so where has it been retrieved from?
Look I am not one of those children who thumps their chests when there is war between Indo Pak. War is a terrible thing and should be avoided at all costs but when an incident has taken place it should be accepted. Iam sure IAF will learn from their inexperience in due course but this time they got spanked and badly. I can give you my reasons for it but listen to your own man in his interview.
A

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TheTallGuy

Arsalan 345 said:


> No mki went down.there is no evidence.we dropped bombs,they destroyed their own helicopter,our f-16s returned to our airspace but mig-21 wasn't spotted on time.we lost one f-16 but other f-16 hit abhinandan plane.end of story.our operation was successful only in the initial stage.overall satisfactory performance.



You are incorrect..

3 x Su-30MKI are down you want me to tell you which version go check Su-30MKI-3 versions. 2ndly No F-16 is dead...why it cant be some thing else..you can claim..why not Mirage 3DP please tell me Why Only F-16! that too a twin seat! why it cant be single seat?

about MiG-21BISONS the 1st Scrambler that took off from Srinager got hit near Srinager what does it tell you? there was no sneaking up..

Food For thought
It will take a defection and serving IAF pilot in press conference on Live TV in Pakistan confirming IAF losses and talking about his fallen comrades.

Ever think of it the Operation that IAF carried out on 26th Feb on balakot is called "Operation Bandar"

Then Asif Ghafoor Sb in his press briefing Q&A said these famous words while smirking.."Taking your words not mine...We Will Shut the MONKEYS" 

Interesting isnt it!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Mace

Arsalan 345 said:


> No mki went down.there is no evidence.we dropped bombs,they destroyed their own helicopter,our f-16s returned to our airspace but mig-21 wasn't spotted on time.we lost one f-16 but other f-16 hit abhinandan plane.end of story.our operation was successful only in the initial stage.overall satisfactory performance.



@Major Sam, why negative rating to this post? 

I don’t think you start giving negative ratings just because it does not fit pak’s official narrative.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Raider 21

TheTallGuy said:


> Historically, drastic change is resisted the fear of unknown - 2 Kills and a helicopter was known territory because of Kargil..military knew what Indians can take and what would be calculated response...if they had openly claimed the decimation. response could be unknown...thats my take on it...although i vehemently disagree with this approach.
> 
> money is always problem while selling cars in Africa these days - while doing so i found out that we have 2 warriors who have more then 1 kill to there credit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can assure you HUD confirmation of Kill exist of MiG-21BISON and hit is observed in it.


There is a HUD confirmation for the MiG. There is one for the mysterious Sukhoi as well. Apparently that is the longest BVR kill ever in recent times.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Ultima Thule

Mace said:


> @Major Sam, why negative rating to this post?
> 
> I don’t think you start giving negative ratings just because it does not fit pak’s official narrative.


LOl you don't understand sarcasm, you and your fellow Indians always blabbers out without single solid proof by your mighty IAF that our F-16 had been shot down by your Mig-21, we are already prove it that you're (India) is wrong (PENTAGON CONFIRMATIONS) YOU'RE COME HERE ONLY FOR TROLL, YOU HAVE ONLY 380 POST AND 18 NEGATIVE RATING, THAT'S SHOWS YOU TROLLING/BLABBERING INTENTIONS HERE ON PDF @Mace


----------



## Mace

pakistanipower said:


> LOl you don't understand sarcasm, you and your fellow Indians always blabbers out without single solid proof by your mighty IAF that our F-16 had been shot down by your Mig-21, we are already prove it that you're (India) is wrong (PENTAGON CONFIRMATIONS) YOU'RE COME HERE ONLY FOR TROLL, YOU HAVE ONLY 380 POST AND 18 NEGATIVE RATING, THAT'S SHOWS YOU TROLLING/BLABBERING INTENTIONS HERE ON PDF @Mace



Pl do not mix up negative ratings counts to an Indian poster on PDF with quality of postings. 

I use mobile only for PDF. I have zero clue on number of negative ratings I have been given and don’t particularly care.

And by the way @Arsalan 345 seems to be a Pakistani whose post I was highlighting.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Vortex

Mace said:


> @Major Sam, why negative rating to this post?
> 
> I don’t think you start giving negative ratings just because it does not fit pak’s official narrative.



Once I have replied to a same post from @Arsalan 345 in the past and at the end he agreed that what he said does not stand against events and facts. But he didn’t wrote it, he just gave me a « thank  ».

And i have noticed that he came back again and again with same  .

So even if i don’t like the negative rating given to him, he deserves it 100%.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Ultima Thule

Mace said:


> Pl do not mix up negative ratings counts to an Indian poster on PDF with quality of postings.
> 
> I use mobile only for PDF. I have zero clue on number of negative ratings I have been given and don’t particularly care.
> 
> And by the way @Arsalan 345 seems to be a Pakistani whose post I was highlighting.


What is quality posting Indian poster have, just to blabbers/troll about 26/27 incidents without a solid single proof, (f-16 downing/ 300 alleged terrorist kills), world currently buy/support Pakistani narratives and laughing at indian narratives @Mace

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zulu

Yah old history i rem other guy with Arnold dp counter him many times exposed him including his tweets 


Vortex said:


> Once I have replied to a same post from @Arsalan 345 in the past and at the end he agreed that what he said does not stand against events and facts. But he didn’t wrote it, he just gave me a « thank  ».
> 
> And i have noticed that he came back again and again with same  .
> 
> So even if i don’t like the negative rating given to him, he deserves it 100%.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mace

pakistanipower said:


> What is quality posting Indian poster have, just to blabbers/troll about 26/27 incidents without a solid single proof, (f-16 downing/ 300 alleged terrorist kills), world currently buy/support Pakistani narratives and laughing at indian narratives @Mace



What solid proof you have of Su30 downing claim? @pakistanipower


----------



## Major Sam

Mace said:


> Pl do not mix up negative ratings counts to an Indian poster on PDF with quality of postings.
> 
> I use mobile only for PDF. I have zero clue on number of negative ratings I have been given and don’t particularly care.
> 
> And by the way @Arsalan 345 seems to be a Pakistani whose post I was highlighting.


He was agreed on many occasions that we dont have any evidence either for su30 or for F16.

But he has written it more than tenth time same propaganda. Which is delibrate and intentional way to bring his own propaganda material without any evidence. So i gave him negative because its worst than trolling to lie again n again.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Ultima Thule

Mace said:


> What solid proof you have of Su30 downing claim? @pakistanipower


Same as your ACM claim it without single solid proofs @Mace


----------



## Sergi

Major Sam said:


> He was agreed on many occasions that we dont have any evidence either for su30 or for F16.
> 
> But he has written it more than tenth time same propaganda. Which is delibrate and intentional way to bring his own propaganda material without any evidence. So i gave him negative because its worst than trolling to lie again n again.


Wow. Spreading propaganda is punishable by negative rating !!!! Is it for all or just in this case ???


----------



## Vortex

Mace said:


> What solid proof you have of Su30 downing claim? @pakistanipower



Solid proof ? the events *tend to prove* by themselves that at least 1 MKI was missing : next day IAF not seen on border, threats of missiles attacks coming from India, strange accidents where helicopter was down in which several people died (MKI poilets ?), another accident later, a car accident this time in which MKI poilets died...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sergi

Vortex said:


> Solid proof ? the events *tend to prove* by themselves that at least 1 MKI was missing : next day IAF not seen on border, threats of missiles attacks coming from India, strange accidents where helicopter was down in which several people died (MKI poilets ?), another accident later, a car accident this time in which MKI poilets died...


Ok then. Congratulations to your mighty JF Sq. for a well proven MKI kill.


----------



## Vortex

Sergi said:


> Ok then. Congratulations to your mighty JF Sq. for a well proven MKI kill.


 I said « tend to prove. »


----------



## Sergi

Vortex said:


> I said « tend to prove. »


And I am not arguing with your post. I said ok and I even congratulate you too !!!


----------



## Vortex

Sergi said:


> And I am not arguing with your post. I said ok and I even congratulate you too !!!



No need of congratulations from you . Thanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

Vortex said:


> No need of congratulations from you . Thanks.


leave them alone buddy, you know they are trolling since 27 FEB @Vortex

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sergi

Vortex said:


> No need of congratulations from you . Thanks.


Well that wasn’t for you. That was for those brave pilots. But since they are not here you can reply on behalf on them. 
Since I have nothing to add more I will leave you alone.


----------



## Dash

Dash said:


> Osama was not in Pakistan according to Pakistanis mullah omar was not in Pakistan according to Pakistanis Kargil and 1965 was a win according to to them but CPEC is for development according to Pakistanis.
> 
> Why debate Indians ?



I would have had your honesty that your cowering rating do u know what it means to a person like me? Give it to a new comer might learn a thing or two. You Pakistanis have not learnt and intelligence is not ur cup of tea.


----------



## Vortex

Sergi said:


> Well that wasn’t for you. That was for those brave pilots. But since they are not here you can reply on behalf on them.
> Since I have nothing to add more I will leave you alone.



I wasn’t speaking for myself but for our Pilots. 

But you can congratulate for our tea. Abhinandan said it was fantastic ! You can also congrats him for having drunk the most expensive tea !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Dash

Rahil khan said:


> Kidoo intelligence agencies play cat and mouse games especially in a region in where so many vested interests are involved. United State like Pakistan are still playing there cards even today about Afghanistan. Presence of OBL inside Pakistan was part of the game plan but unfortunately it turned out to be the set back. United States is still looking for "honorable" exit from Afghanistan....despite raising the entire Afghan National Army and arming, training them to teeth from scratch, spending trillions with all international military forces participation along with Ajit Doval's filthy finger prints present all over in most Pak Afghan tensions but guess what?...TALIBANS ARE ABOUT TO TAKE CONTROL OF AFGHANISTAN AGAIN....!!
> 
> I don't mind if you are still living under rock and popping like many other Indians repeating nonsense over and over again. Even today Afghan government and Talibans are having peace talks in Muree few kilometers from Islamabad... WHY ? Because Pakistan has final role to play and unfortunately Indians can't do sh!! about it other than its traditional malicious attempts for destabilization with bloodshed.



Ok sir , and after being addressed as a kiddo who is 80 born I feel previlgsed with ur address so let me thank you for that and for the think that you challenge America by being a Somalia

Hats off . Your kids are learning from u man. I mean @WebMaster what a platform to educate Pakistan


----------



## Sergi

Vortex said:


> I wasn’t speaking for myself but for our Pilots.
> 
> But you can congratulate for our tea. Abhinandan said it was fantastic ! You can also congrats him for having drunk the most expensive tea !


Well are you sure it wasn’t from Darjilig ??? I met few Pak students in Europe who were fans of that tea. And told me they use same back home. 
And it’s ok no problem for that expensive tea his country can afford that.


----------



## Vortex

Sergi said:


> Well are you sure it wasn’t from Darjilig ??? I met few Pak students in Europe who were fans of that tea. And told me they use same back home.
> And it’s ok no problem for that expensive tea his country can afford that.



Hmmm do you think PAF will use indian tea ? Come on man !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sergi

Vortex said:


> Hmmm do you think PAF will use indian tea ? Come on man !


When you have spare time do check what items Pak import from gulf nations. You might be surprised. 
BTW which is famous tea in Pak. Just curious


----------



## Ultima Thule

Sergi said:


> When you have spare time do check what items Pak import from gulf nations. You might be surprised.
> BTW which is famous tea in Pak. Just curious


you're just troll nothing else, we import most of the tea from Kenya @Sergi enjoy:


----------



## Vortex

Sergi said:


> When you have spare time do check what items Pak import from gulf nations. You might be surprised.
> BTW which is famous tea in Pak. Just curious



I don’t know I’m not living in Pakistan. But i gave you a opportunity to go with honor by talking about tea. Because i know darjeling tea is a famous tea.

 Cup of tea (not alcohol)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Sergi

pakistanipower said:


> you're just troll nothing else, we import most of the tea from Kenya @Sergi enjoy:


Kamal hai ??? Trolling kaha hai ???
Hum to chai ki baat kar rahe the. Thodi na CUP ki 
Any famous brand of Keniyan tea ???


----------



## Ultima Thule

Sergi said:


> Kamal hai ??? Trolling kaha hai ???
> Hum to chai ki baat kar rahe the. Thodi na CUP ki
> Any famous brand of Keniyan tea ???


We import RAW tea not any specific brand of Tea from Kenya @Sergi


----------



## Sergi

pakistanipower said:


> We import RAW tea not any specific brand of Tea from Kenya @Sergi


 lo karlo baat. Ab RAW tea import karoge to milana hai CUP aapane


----------



## Ultima Thule

Sergi said:


> Kamal hai ??? Trolling kaha hai ???
> Hum to chai ki baat kar rahe the. Thodi na CUP ki
> Any famous brand of Keniyan tea ???


ok we serve abhi Indian tea , now happy so what next you troll @Sergi 



Sergi said:


> lo karlo baat. Ab RAW tea import karoge to milana hai CUP aapane


first you learn some English please, that *RAW* doesn't means Indian intelligence agency *(RESEARCH ANALYSIS WING)* but *RAW* means *BULK*, why are you trolling senselessly @Sergi


----------



## Johny D

Guys read his tweet, source of the information is PAF..


----------



## Ultima Thule

Sergi said:


> Oh sorry. I was educated in NON-English school. They taught me if everything is capital then it is special otherwise it’s written as all small. My teacher must have been under educated. Sorry we don’t have high standards of education like you.


still trolling i have to admit you have lot better education system than Pakistan, and last i am currently living in Maryland, USA, time is in Maryland 9:30 morning @Sergi


----------



## Flight of falcon

Sergi said:


> Kamal hai ??? Trolling kaha hai ???
> Hum to chai ki baat kar rahe the. Thodi na CUP ki
> Any famous brand of Keniyan tea ???




I will tell my aunti to find out from near by tea stall where the tea that we gave HUMILiaTEd Emberassed and Trashed Indian pilot came from. 
Now Indians have a habit of asking to boycott things that Pakistan uses .... so in case if it was an Indian tea would you guys boycott your own tea????


How stupid this is getting. Indians have been totally trashed on all the educated informed and serious forums for their stupid not so surgical strikes, ghost paper F16 shot down and now they are desperate to claim that the bloody tea was Indian..... what a bloody joke of a nation.


----------



## Arsalan 345

Mace said:


> @Major Sam, why negative rating to this post?
> 
> I don’t think you start giving negative ratings just because it does not fit pak’s official narrative.



This is my first negative rating and I don't believe that major Sam has given it to me.it is unbelievable.



Vortex said:


> Once I have replied to a same post from @Arsalan 345 in the past and at the end he agreed that what he said does not stand against events and facts. But he didn’t wrote it, he just gave me a « thank  ».
> 
> And i have noticed that he came back again and again with same  .
> 
> So even if i don’t like the negative rating given to him, he deserves it 100%.



I remember our past conversation but I don't deserve this negative rating.i want to ask you a question.if I provide you radar data still images and verbal statement,which one you select? They provided radar data.what we provided them to counter their narrative? Nothing.i don't deserve negative rating.this is not justified.



TheTallGuy said:


> You are incorrect..
> 
> 3 x Su-30MKI are down you want me to tell you which version go check Su-30MKI-3 versions. 2ndly No F-16 is dead...why it cant be some thing else..you can claim..why not Mirage 3DP please tell me Why Only F-16! that too a twin seat! why it cant be single seat?
> 
> about MiG-21BISONS the 1st Scrambler that took off from Srinager got hit near Srinager what does it tell you? there was no sneaking up..
> 
> Food For thought
> It will take a defection and serving IAF pilot in press conference on Live TV in Pakistan confirming IAF losses and talking about his fallen comrades.
> 
> Ever think of it the Operation that IAF carried out on 26th Feb on balakot is called "Operation Bandar"
> 
> Then Asif Ghafoor Sb in his press briefing Q&A said these famous words while smirking.."Taking your words not mine...We Will Shut the MONKEYS"
> 
> Interesting isnt it!



3 mki went down? Are you serious? Lol


----------



## Ali Tariq

Arsalan 345 said:


> i don't deserve negative rating.this is not justified.


You can take this issue to GHQ, anytime. But, don't talk bullshit. Every media outlet except indian media, has rejected indian narrative, don't know why you are hell-bent on proving them 'right'?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Vortex

Arsalan 345 said:


> This is my first negative rating and I don't believe that major Sam has given it to me.it is unbelievable.
> 
> 
> 
> I remember our past conversation but I don't deserve this negative rating.i want to ask you a question.if I provide you radar data still images and verbal statement,which one you select? They provided radar data.what we provided them to counter their narrative? Nothing.i don't deserve negative rating.this is not justified.
> 
> 
> 
> 3 mki went down? Are you serious? Lol



Which to believe ? You can provide whatever you want, but when you got beaten and you don’t come to hit back, then silent in itself is strong enough as a proof.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Flight of falcon

Arsalan 345 said:


> This is my first negative rating and I don't believe that major Sam has given it to me.it is unbelievable.
> 
> 
> 
> I remember our past conversation but I don't deserve this negative rating.i want to ask you a question.if I provide you radar data still images and verbal statement,which one you select? They provided radar data.what we provided them to counter their narrative? Nothing.i don't deserve negative rating.this is not justified.
> 
> 
> 
> 3 mki went down? Are you serious? Lol




You deserve negative rating for propagating totally BS claim of F16 loss. If you are even Pakistani you are playing right into Indian hands. Radar data ? You mean those two sheets with few lines drawn on them? Come on either you are naive or stupid.:.. both deserve negative ratings.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## zulu

This guy problem is going wayyyyyy back unfortunately @Khanivore are not with us this time he can explain better but check his old posts and effort same line but countered by @Khanivore and gumnaam 
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paf-...ison-alan-warnes.614187/page-29#post-11386842


Vortex said:


> Which to believe ? You can provide whatever you want, but when you got beaten and you don’t come to hit back, then silent in itself is strong enough as a proof.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Jackdaws

Pakistan posted so many videos of Abhinandan. How come there is none of him stating that he did not shoot down an F16? They even got him to state that the locals had "high Josh". Surely, when he was in Pak custody he would have said what he shot down and what he missed.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Jackdaws said:


> Pakistan posted so many videos of Abhinandan. How come there is none of him stating that he did not shoot down an F16? They even got him to state that the locals had "high Josh". Surely, when he was in Pak custody he would have said what he shot down and what he missed.



Indiot, its been over 3 months since AbhiNoneDone went back to india and he has yet to make an official statement that he shot down a F-16. 

however he did say that he was searching for a target and got shot down by PAF.
suck that!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Flight of falcon

Jackdaws said:


> Pakistan posted so many videos of Abhinandan. How come there is none of him stating that he did not shoot down an F16? They even got him to state that the locals had "high Josh". Surely, when he was in Pak custody he would have said what he shot down and what he missed.




What a twisted logic.... show me the video where he says he did shoot the F16 down. He is with you guys bro force him to say that. Heck even offer him Pakistani tea as a bribe.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Ultima Thule

Jackdaws said:


> Pakistan posted so many videos of Abhinandan. How come there is none of him stating that he did not shoot down an F16? They even got him to state that the locals had "high Josh". Surely, when he was in Pak custody he would have said what he shot down and what he missed.


 when and where he admit that he had been shot down our F-16, kindly share that link/video/clip if you have @Jackdaws

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jackdaws

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Indiot, its been over 3 months since AbhiNoneDone went back to india and he has yet to make an official statement that he shot down a F-16.
> 
> however he did say that he was searching for a target and got shot down by PAF.
> suck that!





Flight of falcon said:


> What a twisted logic.... show me the video where he says he did shoot the F16 down. He is with you guys bro force him to say that. Heck even offer him Pakistani tea as a bribe.





pakistanipower said:


> when and where he admit that he had been shot down our F-16, kindly share that link/video/clip if you have @Jackdaws



It's fairly simple. In India, he can say anything - he can toe the line of the Indian Govt even if the claim is false. He didn't say anything because Indian defence personnel are forbidden from giving interviews. 

I don't doubt that you chaps all believe your nation's version quite earnestly just as I believe mine. So no point going around in circles. 

My only point is that if he hadn't shot down an F16, without having information to Indian claims while in Pakistan - he would have in all likelihood told his captors that he didn't shoot one down. And Pakistan would have happily published it to refute India's claims. USSR did that to the American pilot it captured - Gary Powers. It embarrassed America no end which had claimed it was some random weather plane.


----------



## newb3e

pakistanipower said:


> when and where he admit that he had been shot down our F-16, kindly share that link/video/clip if you have @Jackdaws


he whispered into modis ears and modi fed bs "mitroon raphael hotay f16 mar dayta"



Jackdaws said:


> It's fairly simple. In India, he can say anything - he can toe the line of the Indian Govt even if the claim is false. He didn't say anything because Indian defence personnel are forbidden from giving interviews.
> 
> I don't doubt that you chaps all believe your nation's version quite earnestly just as I believe mine. So no point going around in circles.
> 
> My only point is that if he hadn't shot down an F16, without having information to Indian claims while in Pakistan - he would have in all likelihood told his captors that he didn't shoot one down. And Pakistan would have happily published it to refute India's claims. USSR did that to the American pilot it captured - Gary Powers. It embarrassed America no end which had claimed it was some random weather plane.


nice story hope it helps you sleep.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

Jackdaws said:


> It's fairly simple. In India, he can say anything - he can toe the line of the Indian Govt even if the claim is false. He didn't say anything because Indian defence personnel are forbidden from giving interviews.
> 
> I don't doubt that you chaps all believe your nation's version quite earnestly just as I believe mine. So no point going around in circles.
> 
> My only point is that if he hadn't shot down an F16, without having information to Indian claims while in Pakistan - he would have in all likelihood told his captors that he didn't shoot one down. And Pakistan would have happily published it to refute India's claims. USSR did that to the American pilot it captured - Gary Powers. It embarrassed America no end which had claimed it was some random weather plane.


So you have no proof, and what would like to say about Pentagon confirmations about our F-16 @Jackdaws

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jackdaws

newb3e said:


> he whispered into modis ears and modi fed bs "mitroon raphael hotay f16 mar dayta"
> 
> 
> nice story hope it helps you sleep.



So no logical counter point. 


pakistanipower said:


> So you have no proof, and what would like to say about Pentagon confirmations about our F-16 @Jackdaws


I am saying that it would be much easier for you to refute it and embarrass India if your narrative is correct. Pentagon itself reiterated that it did no count.


----------



## newb3e

Jackdaws said:


> So no logical counter point.
> 
> I am saying that it would be much easier for you to refute it and embarrass India if your narrative is correct. Pentagon itself reiterated that it did no count.


i am talking to a bakht why the hell wpuld i use logic!!

a = a modi a jo hota hai g hota hai mitrunn!! 

bakhtrs geeee!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Jackdaws said:


> It's fairly simple. In India, he can say anything - he can toe the line of the Indian Govt even if the claim is false. He didn't say anything because Indian defence personnel are forbidden from giving interviews.
> 
> I don't doubt that you chaps all believe your nation's version quite earnestly just as I believe mine. So no point going around in circles.
> 
> My only point is that if he hadn't shot down an F16, without having information to Indian claims while in Pakistan - he would have in all likelihood told his captors that he didn't shoot one down. And Pakistan would have happily published it to refute India's claims. USSR did that to the American pilot it captured - Gary Powers. It embarrassed America no end which had claimed it was some random weather plane.



Here you go Indiot,

IAF chief giving interview to indiots

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mujahid Memon

Jackdaws said:


> Pentagon itself reiterated that it did no count


source please??


----------



## Jackdaws

newb3e said:


> i am talking to a bakht why the hell wpuld i use logic!!
> 
> a = a modi a jo hota hai g hota hai mitrunn!!
> 
> bakhtrs geeee!


Yawn. Still no counter point. Just a lot of gas.


----------



## newb3e

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Here you go Indiot,
> 
> IAF chief giving interview to indiots


please dont spread fake newj indian military officials dont give public interviews this is a sasta bollywood actor wear fauji wardi!


----------



## Jackdaws

Myth_buster_1 said:


> Here you go Indiot,
> 
> IAF chief giving interview to indiots


Read my post again. It's in English. So might take you a while to grasp it. But make an honest effort. I reckon you will eventually grasp it.


----------



## Jackdaws

newb3e said:


> please dont spread fake newj indian military officials dont give public interviews this is a sasta bollywood actor wear fauji wardi!


Lol. These are chiefs. You don't have every soldier giving interviews. At least not in democracies.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Jackdaws said:


> Read my post again. It's in English. So might take you a while to grasp it. But make an honest effort. I reckon you will eventually grasp it.



right now its only you grasping for air because your bharat pathological lying bubble got busted. 
maybe cowmutra might help you?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jackdaws

Mujahid Memon said:


> source please??


https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ht-with-iaf/story-Rw4gSknuuSBnMc2EyYe62H.html


----------



## newb3e

Jackdaws said:


> Yawn. Still no counter point. Just a lot of gas.





Jackdaws said:


> Lol. These are chiefs. You don't have every soldier giving interviews. At least not in democracies.


yeh man they can only make viral videos complaining about food and hygine


----------



## Jackdaws

Myth_buster_1 said:


> right now its only you grasping for air because your bharat pathological lying bubble got busted.
> maybe cowmutra might help you?


You can mock my faith and what not like any keyboard warrior frothing at the mouth - but you simply don't have a counter argument. So keep frothing and keep trying to mock my faith which is shared by millions of your own countrymen too. So there goes.



newb3e said:


> yeh man they can only make viral videos complaining about food and hygine


And that leads to their suspension.


----------



## newb3e

Jackdaws said:


> You can mock my faith and what not like any keyboard warrior frothing at the mouth - but you simply don't have a counter argument. So keep frothing and keep trying to mock my faith which is shared by millions of your own countrymen too. So there goes.
> 
> 
> And that leads to their suspension.


how sad! cant even complain about shitty workplace environment! is rhat what you call a democracy?


----------



## Mujahid Memon

Jackdaws said:


> https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ht-with-iaf/story-Rw4gSknuuSBnMc2EyYe62H.html


So HT is source for Pentagon. Is this the best you can come up with


----------



## Jackdaws

newb3e said:


> how sad! cant even complain about shitty workplace environment! is rhat what you call a democracy?


Of course they can. I know even this might be difficult for you to grasp given the paucity of professional organization in your deck of the woods - but in any professional organization whether in the private or public sector, you must air your grievances in a prescribed manner.



Mujahid Memon said:


> So HT is source for Pentagon. Is this the best you can come up with


Pentagon is a source for HT here. But sure, now discredit the source.


----------



## ziaulislam

Jackdaws said:


> Of course they can. I know even this might be difficult for you to grasp given the paucity of professional organization in your deck of the woods - but in any professional organization whether in the private or public sector, you must air your grievances in a prescribed manner.
> 
> 
> Pentagon is a source for HT here. But sure, now discredit the source.


But who is claiming that the high level source ...? Hindustan times ?
While disregarding a highly reputable correspondant who states otherwise ?

"As a matter of policy, the Department does not publicly comment on details of government-to-government agreements on end-use monitoring of US-origin defence articles.”

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mujahid Memon

Jackdaws said:


> Pentagon is a source for HT here. But sure, now discredit the source.


I did not see a credible source of Pentagon on HT article. This only states "a Pentagon official told HT". Meanwhile any official statement from Pentagon is listed on dod's website.


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Jackdaws said:


> You can mock my faith and what not like any keyboard warrior frothing at the mouth - but you simply don't have a counter argument. So keep frothing and keep trying to mock my faith which is shared by millions of your own countrymen too. So there goes.
> 
> 
> And that leads to their suspension.




stop crying.. u said indian defencj personnel are not allowed to give interview yet i proved u wrong by providing iaf chief give false information about abhi shooting f16

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## valkyr_96

Myth_buster_1 said:


> stop crying.. u said indian defencj personnel are not allowed to give interview yet i proved u wrong by providing iaf chief give false information about abhi shooting f16


funny to see them claiming abhinandan shooting down an f16. They were not accepting him as an IAF pilot in the first place because of his moustache and said they were parading a Pakistani pilot as propaganda. In fact we found out that he was in an documentary as well( where he is was interviewed)


----------



## Ultima Thule

Jackdaws said:


> I am saying that it would be much easier for you to refute it and embarrass India if your narrative is correct. Pentagon itself reiterated that it did no count.


only from Indian source, And Pentagon correspondent for foreign policy has no value, what do you want to confirmed by whom that you Satisfied, from the mouth of the President of USA or secretary of defense announces then you satisfy that no F-16 missing for PAF @Jackdaws 



Dadizonline said:


> I can show you similar videos of PAF COAS about historical wars but you people will simply deny it and again in simple language did he said MKI went down ? Btw what's your view about that 2nd pilot who was in hospital ?


you clam only one missing in action so we gave you abhi, second pilot might be dead or still in our custody, that you only claim one, BTW you have a good bedtime stories by your vedic/mighty IAF @Dadizonline 



Jackdaws said:


> You can mock my faith and what not like any keyboard warrior frothing at the mouth - but you simply don't have a counter argument. So keep frothing and keep trying to mock my faith which is shared by millions of your own countrymen too. So there goes.


Currently we are all keyboard warrior included you, but you (indians) lack logic/commonsense, world buys/support Pakistani narratives on 26/27 FEB air battles and laughing at India @Jackdaws


----------



## Jackdaws

pakistanipower said:


> only from Indian source, And Pentagon correspondent for foreign policy has no value, what do you want to confirmed by whom that you Satisfied, from the mouth of the President of USA or secretary of defense announces then you satisfy that no F-16 missing for PAF @Jackdaws
> 
> 
> you clam only one missing in action so we gave you abhi, second pilot might be dead or still in our custody, that you only claim one, BTW you have a good bedtime stories by your vedic/mighty IAF @Dadizonline
> 
> 
> Currently we are all keyboard warrior included you, but you (indians) lack logic/commonsense, world buys/support Pakistani narratives on 26/27 FEB air battles and laughing at India @Jackdaws


World buys Pak narrative? In which alternate universe? Maybe China does. That Italian journalist also backed India's claim of deaths in Balakot. 
So we both have our narratives and have enough sources to back them. We will obviously like to believe our country. I am not saying I blindly follow my Govt. - especially this one which tends to exaggerate and build a nationalistic narrative for its own ends. 

My point is about Abhinandan and his interrogation, nothing else.


----------



## Psychic

Jackdaws said:


> That Italian journalist also backed India's claim of deaths in Balakot.


You are damn stubborn. (In a negative way). Aren't you?

Still crying about casualties after being debunked over and over again.

You believe him because you want to. Not because he is in your words "a source to back your claims".

300 killed.
Camp completely destroyed.
Camp not destroyed, we made holes in the roof and bombs blasted inside.
We don't know how many killed.
Now after all of above anyone who toes the line of hundreds killed is nothing but a liar.

_The image is virtually unchanged from an April 2018 satellite photo of the facility. There are *no discernible holes in the roofs of buildings*, no signs of scorching, blown-out walls, displaced trees around the madrasa or other signs of an aerial attack._
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...standing-at-indian-bombing-site-idUSKCN1QN00V
In face of all other reputable papers, you bring one obscure journalist who has neither visited Pak nor has assessed satellite photos. And then you say " we both have sources to back up our claims". As if your source is of any substance.

Even if there were casualties, it's still a shame that a madrassa full of children was targeted by a professional force. You OTOH seem to be very proud of it.




Jackdaws said:


> *I am not saying I blindly follow my Govt*. - especially this one which tends to exaggerate and build a nationalistic narrative for its own ends.


You seem to be though.

Despite the failure of strikes, you have HT and ANI sources to back you up which are sufficient for you.


Sergi said:


> BTW which is famous tea in Pak. Just curious


It's not an Indian brand. None of the top ten brands is Indian.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jackdaws

Myth_buster_1 said:


> stop crying.. u said indian defencj personnel are not allowed to give interview yet i proved u wrong by providing iaf chief give false information about abhi shooting f16


Stop clutching at straws. Do you understand the difference between formal interviews and official press conferences?


----------



## Psychic

Jackdaws said:


> World buys Pak narrative? In which alternate universe? Maybe China does.


_When an Indian fighter pilot who had been captured by Pakistan was released on Friday, *it capped a humiliating episode for India* and a surreal week for him. _-THE NEW YORK TIMES

Want more?

That is despite the fact that they have to sell tones of stuff and weapons to India.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jackdaws

Psychic said:


> You are damn stubborn. (In a negative way). Aren't you?
> 
> Still crying about casualties after being debunked over and over again.
> 
> You believe him because you want to. Not because he is in your words "a source to back your claims".
> 
> 300 killed.
> Camp completely destroyed.
> Camp not destroyed, we made holes in the roof and bombs blasted inside.
> We don't know how many killed.
> Now after all of above anyone who toes the line of hundreds killed is nothing but a liar.
> 
> _The image is virtually unchanged from an April 2018 satellite photo of the facility. There are *no discernible holes in the roofs of buildings*, no signs of scorching, blown-out walls, displaced trees around the madrasa or other signs of an aerial attack._
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...standing-at-indian-bombing-site-idUSKCN1QN00V
> In face of all other reputable papers, you bring one obscure journalist who has neither visited Pak nor has assessed satellite photos. And then you say " we both have sources to back up our claims". As if your source is of any substance.
> 
> Even if there were casualties, it's still a shame that a madrassa full of children was targeted by a professional force. You OTOH seem to be very proud of it.
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to be though.
> 
> Despite the failure of strikes, you have HT and ANI sources to back you up which are sufficient for you.
> 
> It's not an Indian brand. None of the top ten brands is Indian.


I am not buying anything. I am merely saying that there is too much fog. It is easy for either side to buy or debunk the other one's narrative and that satisfies both populations. Anyways, as I said Modi govt is prone to exaggeration. That is for internal consumption of their chest thumping cheerleaders.



Psychic said:


> _When an Indian fighter pilot who had been captured by Pakistan was released on Friday, *it capped a humiliating episode for India* and a surreal week for him. _-THE NEW YORK TIMES
> 
> Want more?
> 
> That is despite the fact that they have to sell tones of stuff and weapons to India.


Who is disputing that Abhinandan was captured?


----------



## Ultima Thule

Jackdaws said:


> World buys Pak narrative? In which alternate universe? Maybe China does. That Italian journalist also backed India's claim of deaths in Balakot.
> So we both have our narratives and have enough sources to back them. We will obviously like to believe our country. I am not saying I blindly follow my Govt. - especially this one which tends to exaggerate and build a nationalistic narrative for its own ends.
> 
> My point is about Abhinandan and his interrogation, nothing else.


in which world do you live in, within hours of Balakot strike international satellite experts from around the world said you hit nothing but one dead crow and some killed some trees , and Italian journalist had come after 4 month of incident, i can shows you lots of world renounced international press/news leaks sites that said you hit nothing, you're (India) are blind not world is blind @Jackdaws 
And what is point about Abhi and his interrogation you have @Jackdaws


----------



## Psychic

Jackdaws said:


> Who is disputing that Abhinandan was captured?


_"World buys Pak narrative? In which alternate universe? Maybe China does."_

We said we humiliated India.
They bought our narrative and said the same.

If it was India humiliating us as per Indian narrative, and the world not buying our narrative, they wouldn't have said that.

They and others said exactly what we said (minus MKI claim). If that's not buying our narrative then IDK what it is? Maybe they're buying Indian narrative when they say India was humiliated.


----------



## ziaulislam

Jackdaws said:


> World buys Pak narrative? In which alternate universe? Maybe China does. That Italian journalist also backed India's claim of deaths in Balakot.
> So we both have our narratives and have enough sources to back them. We will obviously like to believe our country. I am not saying I blindly follow my Govt. - especially this one which tends to exaggerate and build a nationalistic narrative for its own ends.
> 
> My point is about Abhinandan and his interrogation, nothing else.


Every nutjob is n0t a journalist..really?..its insult calling that thing a journalist

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Jackdaws

pakistanipower said:


> in which world do you live in, within hours of Balakot strike international satellite experts from around the world said you hit nothing but one dead crow and some killed some trees , and Italian journalist had come after 4 month of incident, i can shows you lots of world renounced international press/news leaks sites that said you hit nothing, you're (India) are blind not world is blind @Jackdaws
> And what is point about Abhi and his interrogation you have @Jackdaws


Ok



ziaulislam said:


> Every nutjob is n0t a journalist..really?..its insult calling that thing a journalist


Sure. That's fine by me.



Psychic said:


> _"World buys Pak narrative? In which alternate universe? Maybe China does."_
> 
> We said we humiliated India.
> They bought our narrative and said the same.
> 
> If it was India humiliating us as per Indian narrative, and the world not buying our narrative, they wouldn't have said that.
> 
> They and others said exactly what we said (minus MKI claim). If that's not buying our narrative then IDK what it is? Maybe they're buying Indian narrative when they say India was humiliated.


Your narrative is that foggy. Your claim was 2 Indian planes shot down. 2 Indian pilots captured with 1 of them being treated in hospital. Then you changed it.


----------



## Psychic

Jackdaws said:


> Your narrative is that foggy. Your claim was 2 Indian planes shot down. 2 Indian pilots captured with 1 of them being treated in hospital. Then you changed it.


If I start pointing out inconsistencies in Indian narrative, I would need a whole page.

2 pilots reports came from two different units who sighted the same pilot---during the time when engagement was going on. That was corrected within hours. 



> Your narrative is that foggy


Really? We didn't make any changes in our narrative, you did.

Some Indian official somersaults;
All pilots and planes accounted for.
One plane missing.
Crashed due to technical fault.
No, it was shot down.
Before it was shot, it downed f16.
All Pakistani planes forced to turn back, weren't able to cross LOC.
No, they did cross LOC.
Their bombs fell inside military compounds.
Mi-17 lost due to technical fault.
No, it was shot down by air defence. 
Everything is honky dory.
But our generals were few hundred metres away from where bombs fell.
We need Rafael to shift balance in our favour.
Clouds prevent radar detection.
But still every thing is awesome and honky dory.

and the list goes on and on. If you add unofficial stuff like Shazazuddin or the so called pilot mistaken for a Sikh(When every second Pakistani keeps a big@ss beard) to the claim that debri has F16 engine. The sheer amusement value becomes really great.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Jackdaws

Psychic said:


> If I start pointing out inconsistencies in Indian narrative, I would need a whole page.
> 
> 2 pilots reports came from two different units who sighted the same pilot---during the time when engagement was going on. That was corrected within hours.
> 
> 
> Really? We didn't make any changes in our narrative, you did.
> 
> Some Indian official somersaults;
> All pilots and planes accounted for.
> One plane missing.
> Crashed due to technical fault.
> No, it was shot down.
> Before it was shot, it downed f16.
> All Pakistani planes forced to turn back, weren't able to cross LOC.
> No, they did cross LOC.
> Their bombs fell inside military compounds.
> Mi-17 lost due to technical fault.
> No, it was shot down by air defence.
> Everything is honky dory.
> But our generals were few hundred metres away from where bombs fell.
> We need Rafael to shift balance in our favour.
> Clouds prevent radar detection.
> But still every thing is awesome and honky dory.
> 
> and the list goes on and on. If you add unofficial stuff like Shazazuddin or the so called pilot mistaken for a Sikh(When every second Pakistani keeps a big@ss beard) to the claim that debri has F16 engine. The sheer amusement value becomes really great.


Sure, sure. And one unit led him to a hospital to recuperate and other was arrested. Abhinandan can be in two places at one time - when he is not an IAF pilot, he is Mandrake the Magician.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

Jackdaws said:


> Sure, sure. And one unit led him to a hospital to recuperate and other was arrested. Abhinandan can be in two places at one time - when he is not an IAF pilot, he is Mandrake the Magician.


Keep blabbering without a base it could be IAF Pilot, we see in picture from IAF wreckage there was a burned corpse along IAF jet wreckage @Jackdaws


----------



## Jackdaws

pakistanipower said:


> Keep blabbering without a base it could be IAF Pilot, we see in picture from IAF wreckage there was a burned corpse along IAF jet wreckage @Jackdaws


Acha, so now it's a corpse. So the second unit took a burnt corpse for treatment. Got it.


----------



## Ultima Thule

Jackdaws said:


> Acha, so now it's a corpse. So the second unit took a burnt corpse for treatment. Got it.


on the wreck site you troll @Jackdaws  on 27 FEB pictures taken by some villager @Jackdaws


----------



## Myth_buster_1

Jackdaws said:


> Stop clutching at straws. Do you understand the difference between formal interviews and official press conferences?



So if IAF pilot shoots down a PAF fighter jet he is not allowed to officially make a statement on that? But instead IAF chief will do a press conference? 
India is not short of face saving creativeness 

Please explain

how 2 R-77 were recovered from Mig-21 wreckage
1 R-73 with tail section still attached to pylon was recovered
1 R-73 with serial number that can be traced back to IAF inventory also recovered

But Abhi still shot down a F-16 because pathological liar drama queen IAF chief says so? You indiots are more brainwashed then north koreans. NEVER question government narrative! lol



Jackdaws said:


> Acha, so now it's a corpse. So the second unit took a burnt corpse for treatment. Got it.



Yah, PAF pilots dont wear PAF and Pak flag patches and neither they can recite islamic verses to prove they are muslims and PAF pilot. and still when they get captured and thrown in CMH, Pak military still cant identify his nationality and had to wait for Indiot twitter warrior to expose PAF blunder.


----------



## newb3e

Jackdaws said:


> Acha, so now it's a corpse. So the second unit took a burnt corpse for treatment. Got it.


you win!! internet keyboard tejas pilot! according to vedas there cant be 27th feb 2019 theres only 26th and india invaded Pakistan on 26th and ruled it for hundereds of years (in vedas time). yes Modi was the ruler of Akhand bharat from 26th veda 2019 to 28th veda 2019


----------



## Jackdaws

Myth_buster_1 said:


> So if IAF pilot shoots down a PAF fighter jet he is not allowed to officially make a statement on that? But instead IAF chief will do a press conference?
> India is not short of face saving creativeness
> 
> Please explain
> 
> how 2 R-77 were recovered from Mig-21 wreckage
> 1 R-73 with tail section still attached to pylon was recovered
> 1 R-73 with serial number that can be traced back to IAF inventory also recovered
> 
> But Abhi still shot down a F-16 because pathological liar drama queen IAF chief says so? You indiots are more brainwashed then north koreans. NEVER question government narrative! lol
> 
> 
> 
> Yah, PAF pilots dont wear PAF and Pak flag patches and neither they can recite islamic verses to prove they are muslims and PAF pilot. and still when they get captured and thrown in CMH, Pak military still cant identify his nationality and had to wait for Indiot twitter warrior to expose PAF blunder.


That's correct. The pilot is not allowed to make an official statement. When your Atlantique aircraft was being escorted to an Indian base after violation of airspace and tried to make a dash for it back in 1999 - it was shot down by IAF and it wasn't the pilots who met the press.



newb3e said:


> you win!! internet keyboard tejas pilot! according to vedas there cant be 27th feb 2019 theres only 26th and india invaded Pakistan on 26th and ruled it for hundereds of years (in vedas time). yes Modi was the ruler of Akhand bharat from 26th veda 2019 to 28th veda 2019


Ok. So keep trolling.


----------



## Ultima Thule

Jackdaws said:


> Ok. So keep trolling.


And you're not trolling LOL just LOL @Jackdaws

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## araz

Falcon26 said:


> This line of thinking is what’s problematic. Pakistan can’t on one hand claim to have shot down an SU-30 and on the other hand hide evidence. This places you in the same category as India and her F-16 shenanigans.


Where has PAF hidden evidence? You know it because PAF released it. It has chosen to do so via nonofficial channels. Not even the US releases sensitive evidence of kills. So why should one ask PAF to release the footage of the kill. If Alan Warnes is saying in an international magazine IAF lost an SU MKI, and if he is wrong IAF is within its rights to sue him in court for false propagation and defamation of its reputation. This will incite a retraction and apology. But lets see whether they do so if they are true.
A


Dadizonline said:


> I can show you similar videos of PAF COAS about historical wars but you people will simply deny it and again in simple language did he said MKI went down ? Btw what's your view about that 2nd pilot who was in hospital ?


DG ISPR stated that this was miscommunication in emergency state. That is a possibility. The other possibility is from the videos where eye witnesses state that the other pilot was probably dead while still in air. If he was found and was dead, then the body would have been handed back to IAF representatives as per SOP.
A

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Psychic

Jackdaws said:


> Sure, sure. And one unit led him to a hospital to recuperate and other was arrested. Abhinandan can be in two places at one time - when he is not an IAF pilot, he is Mandrake the Magician.


You seem to not care one bit about the maha vir chakra feat of blasting your own hip deep inside your own airspace.

Any concern for the seven "bravehearts" dispatched to next janam by their own comrades?

Any concerns for bombs falling in lawns of brigade HQ with general officers inside?

Any concerns for bombs rocking ammo dumps?

Any concern for countless contradictory claims by Indian forces?
Or the preposterous claims of hiding behind clouds and IAF marshal telling it is a good tactic? 

We threatened, we came, we hammered-----In broad daylight-----like a badmash.

Your airforce is cowering ever since. But they did a good job in convincing their jingoistic public of a great victory------too bad, couldn't convince anyone else of the great success of operation bandar though.

As far as our just one statement is concerned, I already explained the statement was given during engagement. Indians made countless statements worthy of scorn during that time. You really want to go there?
You are at the end of the day, just another Indian who despite what he claims, believes in whatever baloney his government tells him. 
Now muster some courage and admit to the fallacies of Indian claims like these;


> All pilots and planes accounted for.
> One plane missing.
> Crashed due to technical fault.
> No, it was shot down.
> Before it was shot, it downed f16.
> All Pakistani planes forced to turn back, weren't able to cross LOC.
> No, they did cross LOC.
> Their bombs fell inside military compounds.
> Mi-17 lost due to technical fault.
> No, it was shot down by air defence.
> Everything is honky dory.
> But our generals were few hundred metres away from where bombs fell.
> We need Rafael to shift balance in our favour.
> Clouds prevent radar detection.
> But still every thing is awesome and honky dory.



And after a couple of weeks, two SU pilots died in an accident. 

Care to tell from where this was pulled out?





Now take a good look at their faces as well while you are at it------faces of loosers.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Comfortably Numb

Psychic said:


> You seem to not care one bit about the maha vir chakra feat of blasting your own hip deep inside your own airspace.
> 
> Any concern for the seven "bravehearts" dispatched to next janam by their own comrades?
> 
> Any concerns for bombs falling in lawns of brigade HQ with general officers inside?
> 
> Any concerns for bombs rocking ammo dumps?
> 
> Any concern for countless contradictory claims by Indian forces?
> Or the preposterous claims of hiding behind clouds and IAF marshal telling it is a good tactic?
> 
> We threatened, we came, we hammered-----In broad daylight-----like a badmash.
> 
> Your airforce is cowering ever since. But they did a good job in convincing their jingoistic public of a great victory------too bad, couldn't convince anyone else of the great success of operation bandar though.
> 
> As far as our just one statement is concerned, I already explained the statement was given during engagement. Indians made countless statements worthy of scorn during that time. You really want to go there?
> You are at the end of the day, just another Indian who despite what he claims, believes in whatever baloney his government tells him.
> Now muster some courage and admit to the fallacies of Indian claims like these;
> 
> 
> And after a couple of weeks, two SU pilots died in an accident.
> 
> Care to tell from where this was pulled out?
> View attachment 566588
> 
> Now take a good look at their faces as well while you are at it------faces of loosers.



Ghairatmand hoia te 3 maheene hor chupp rahega

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Jackdaws

Psychic said:


> You seem to not care one bit about the maha vir chakra feat of blasting your own hip deep inside your own airspace.
> 
> Any concern for the seven "bravehearts" dispatched to next janam by their own comrades?
> 
> Any concerns for bombs falling in lawns of brigade HQ with general officers inside?
> 
> Any concerns for bombs rocking ammo dumps?
> 
> Any concern for countless contradictory claims by Indian forces?
> Or the preposterous claims of hiding behind clouds and IAF marshal telling it is a good tactic?
> 
> We threatened, we came, we hammered-----In broad daylight-----like a badmash.
> 
> Your airforce is cowering ever since. But they did a good job in convincing their jingoistic public of a great victory------too bad, couldn't convince anyone else of the great success of operation bandar though.
> 
> As far as our just one statement is concerned, I already explained the statement was given during engagement. Indians made countless statements worthy of scorn during that time. You really want to go there?
> You are at the end of the day, just another Indian who despite what he claims, believes in whatever baloney his government tells him.
> Now muster some courage and admit to the fallacies of Indian claims like these;
> 
> 
> And after a couple of weeks, two SU pilots died in an accident.
> 
> Care to tell from where this was pulled out?
> View attachment 566588
> 
> Now take a good look at their faces as well while you are at it------faces of loosers.


Truth in India gets out. Whether it is the debacle of 1962 against the Chinese or India losing its chopper to friendly fire. India did not hide it. How easy would a cover up be in that case?

Now compare that to Pakistan - when are you releasing the full Hamadoor Rehman Commission report? It's been what - 50 years?

We've heard it over the years. "India attacked in 65". "USA and China are helping Pak win in East Pak". "No army regulars in Kargil". If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.... 

And capturing a pilot in your own territory is par for course. Imagine Germans lauding themselves for capturing British pilots over Germany in Ww2. 

You can make as many excuses as you like. Truth will eventually come out. Maybe India is lying. Maybe Pak is. Give it some time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sergi

Flight of falcon said:


> I will tell my aunti to find out from near by tea stall where the tea that we gave HUMILiaTEd Emberassed and Trashed Indian pilot came from.
> Now Indians have a habit of asking to boycott things that Pakistan uses .... so in case if it was an Indian tea would you guys boycott your own tea????
> 
> 
> How stupid this is getting. Indians have been totally trashed on all the educated informed and serious forums for their stupid not so surgical strikes, ghost paper F16 shot down and *now they are desperate to claim that the bloody tea was Indian..... what a bloody joke of a nation.*



Mr. Shaik-Chilli your understanding is NOT my issue. Learn to read so you might understand what others are saying. You should try may be someday you will reach there. 
Or may be go to school again if you were there in first place


----------



## Falcon26

araz said:


> Where has PAF hidden evidence? You know it because PAF released it. It has chosen to do so via nonofficial channels. Not even the US releases sensitive evidence of kills. So why should one ask PAF to release the footage of the kill. If Alan Warnes is saying in an international magazine IAF lost an SU MKI, and if he is wrong IAF is within its rights to sue him in court for false propagation and defamation of its reputation. This will incite a retraction and apology. But lets see whether they do so if they are true.
> A
> 
> DG ISPR stated that this was miscommunication in emergency state. That is a possibility. The other possibility is from the videos where eye witnesses state that the other pilot was probably dead while still in air. If he was found and was dead, then the body would have been handed back to IAF representatives as per SOP.
> A



Alan Warnes never claimed that a SU-30 was shot down either in official writing for a magazine or through a tweet. He simply quoted the PAF Chief. I would expect you to know this basic distinction.


----------



## Flight of falcon

Jackdaws said:


> Yawn. Still no counter point. Just a lot of gas.




Bro what kind of stupid logic is this? First you guys make an idiotic claim then you ask us to prove it wrong and then we simply say move on not worth commenting on this stupidity you claim


Sergi said:


> Kamal hai ??? Trolling kaha hai ???
> Hum to chai ki baat kar rahe the. Thodi na CUP ki
> Any famous brand of Keniyan tea ???





Beta just like the tomatoes and onions you eat from Pakistan we may have tea and garlic from India. And yes we don’t import cow urine. There is too much demand for that in your country where apparently tea consumption is going down and cow urine use is going up. 

By the way I gotta give credit to poster name Jackass. He is persistent in his stupidity and trolling. 

My request to my Indian brothers please please get your head out of Modi’s rear end and stop listening to Modi army and Modi airforce versions. There is truth out there and no matter how humiliating it may be for Indians it is the truth so seek it.


----------



## SQ8

The crux is the 27th engagement - please stick to that.


----------



## Rahil khan

Dash said:


> Ok sir , and after being addressed as a kiddo who is 80 born I feel previlgsed with ur address so let me thank you *for that and for the think that you challenge America by being a Somalia*
> 
> Hats off . Your kids are learning from u man. I mean @WebMaster what a platform to educate Pakistan



As Indian you are justified to say such things...Jano tumhara qasoor nahi.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## araz

Falcon26 said:


> Alan Warnes never claimed that a SU-30 was shot down either in official writing for a magazine or through a tweet. He simply quoted the PAF Chief. I would expect you to know this basic distinction.


And the PAF air chief would just talk like that and Warnes will just "quote" him like that. Are we delving into symantics here? Look the point Iam making is that the PAF has given out enough indications to the fact that aMig 21 and an SU 30 were shot down. No one doubts the 21 as the debris was in Pak possession. The SU fell in IOK and debris is not located. There maybe evidence in PAF possession which it will not release. Kaiser Tufail has pointed out the SU kill. The badges on PAF pilots point to that. If beyond thatcyou need more evidence then I dont think you will get it from PAF. Now if you dont believe it let us agree to disagree and move on. 
A

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MilSpec

araz said:


> And the PAF air chief would just talk like that and Warnes will just "quote" him like that. Are we delving into symantics here? Look the point Iam making is that the PAF has given out enough indications to the fact that aMig 21 and an SU 30 were shot down. No one doubts the 21 as the debris was in Pak possession. The SU fell in IOK and debris is not located. There maybe evidence in PAF possession which it will not release. Kaiser Tufail has pointed out the SU kill. The badges on PAF pilots point to that. If beyond thatcyou need more evidence then I dont think you will get it from PAF. Now if you dont believe it let us agree to disagree and move on.
> A


Except, India has never hidden its crashes. Not even the fratricide, not test crashes and above that there is a Comptroller Auditor General, that will track down a missing screw unaccounted for, there is no chance a mki and two pilots vanish just like that. If two pilots were missing in combat, parliament to supreme court would be ringing with the repercussion, not to mention the Abdullah's, kejriwals and the Gandhis would have pounced upon it for electioneering.


----------



## Falcon26

araz said:


> And the PAF air chief would just talk like that and Warnes will just "quote" him like that. Are we delving into symantics here? Look the point Iam making is that the PAF has given out enough indications to the fact that aMig 21 and an SU 30 were shot down. No one doubts the 21 as the debris was in Pak possession. The SU fell in IOK and debris is not located. There maybe evidence in PAF possession which it will not release. Kaiser Tufail has pointed out the SU kill. The badges on PAF pilots point to that. If beyond thatcyou need more evidence then I dont think you will get it from PAF. Now if you dont believe it let us agree to disagree and move on.
> A



Again, one would expect that you would know better. Alan Warnes is a journalist. It’s his job to report claims, he in no way claimed to have verified that claim independently. This is how journalism works. When the Indians claimed the F-16 shot, media reported it, and at least two journalists, most popularly Lara Seligman independently debunked the Indian claim by verifying with other sources. Again, this is how journalism works. Alan Warnes quoting PAF Chief says nothing about the veracity of the claims made!


----------



## Flight of falcon

araz said:


> And the PAF air chief would just talk like that and Warnes will just "quote" him like that. Are we delving into symantics here? Look the point Iam making is that the PAF has given out enough indications to the fact that aMig 21 and an SU 30 were shot down. No one doubts the 21 as the debris was in Pak possession. The SU fell in IOK and debris is not located. There maybe evidence in PAF possession which it will not release. Kaiser Tufail has pointed out the SU kill. The badges on PAF pilots point to that. If beyond thatcyou need more evidence then I dont think you will get it from PAF. Now if you dont believe it let us agree to disagree and move on.
> A





Indians couldn’t find their An32 transporter for over a week despite it being a large transporter with all bells and whistles and it simply vanished over land. All the Indian satellites couldn’t find the wreckage. Now imagine a much smaller SU30 crashing in the mountains over Kashmir . What are the chances of it being spotted??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Falcon26

MilSpec said:


> Except, India has never hidden its crashes. Not even the fratricide, not test crashes and above that there is a Comptroller Auditor General, that will track down a missing screw unaccounted for, there is no chance a mki and two pilots vanish just like that. If two pilots were missing in combat, parliament to supreme court would be ringing with the repercussion, not to mention the Abdullah's, kejriwals and the Gandhis would have pounced upon it for electioneering.



The less said about India’s credibility the better. It lied and continues to lie despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Evidence contrary to Indian claims presented by neutral parties continue to be unanswered, yet India and Indians continue to repeat a debunked lie.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Flight of falcon

MilSpec said:


> Except, India has never hidden its crashes. Not even the fratricide, not test crashes and above that there is a Comptroller Auditor General, that will track down a missing screw unaccounted for, there is no chance a mki and two pilots vanish just like that. If two pilots were missing in combat, parliament to supreme court would be ringing with the repercussion, not to mention the Abdullah's, kejriwals and the Gandhis would have pounced upon it for electioneering.




Indians have a track record of making false claims and sticking with most outrageous claims which were widely ridiculed. How can you trust such foe?

Remember 300 people were supposedly killed and F16 shot down claims.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Myth_buster_1

MilSpec said:


> Except, India has never hidden its crashes. Not even the fratricide, not test crashes and above that there is a Comptroller Auditor General, that will track down a missing screw unaccounted for, there is no chance a mki and two pilots vanish just like that. If two pilots were missing in combat, parliament to supreme court would be ringing with the repercussion, not to mention the Abdullah's, kejriwals and the Gandhis would have pounced upon it for electioneering.



and if an F-16 goes missing, lockheed martin which has heavy Indian presence would know before the dam plane even crashes! All PAF f-16s are tracked by US DOD. 

btw, what is your explanation for........

2 R-77 recovered
1 R-73 with tail section still attached to pylon recovered
and 1 R-73 with serial number that can be traced back to IAF inventory also recovered

this fact which every indian keeps avoiding to avoid humiliation defeat.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan 345

MilSpec said:


> Except, India has never hidden its crashes. Not even the fratricide, not test crashes and above that there is a Comptroller Auditor General, that will track down a missing screw unaccounted for, there is no chance a mki and two pilots vanish just like that. If two pilots were missing in combat, parliament to supreme court would be ringing with the repercussion, not to mention the Abdullah's, kejriwals and the Gandhis would have pounced upon it for electioneering.



It's useless to talk here.they gave me negative rating just because I raised questions about su-30 claim.they will give you negative rating as well if you challenge their narrative.i mean where is the wreckage of su-30? No body in the world can hide such a big plane and tallguy even claimed 3 su-30 went down.i mean this is crazy.


----------



## HRK

Arsalan 345 said:


> It's useless to talk here.they gave me negative rating just because I raised questions about su-30 claim.they will give you negative rating as well if you challenge their narrative.i mean where is the wreckage of su-30? No body in the world can hide such a big plane and tallguy even claimed 3 su-30 went down.i mean this is crazy.


plz don't play victim card .... your post was not rated negative because of your stance for Su-30 but you was rated negative by a fellow member because of your consistent claim of lost of F-16 which many times earlier was clarified to you by many other members time to time since 27 feb

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Vortex

Arsalan 345 said:


> It's useless to talk here.they gave me negative rating just because I raised questions about su-30 claim.they will give you negative rating as well if you challenge their narrative.i mean where is the wreckage of su-30? No body in the world can hide such a big plane and tallguy even claimed 3 su-30 went down.i mean this is crazy.



After 27 feb no MKI seen near border. Why ? Because at least 1 MKI was shot down by PAF. It is not an evidence, but a highly probable symptom of what happened.
Adding to that the missiles attacks threats from India in the following days.

But for the F16, there is nothing like that.

But i will add that if 1 F16 was shotdown and that too by a Bison, then why indians were threatening us with missiles attacks ?

Events match the downing of MKI, and do not match with downing an F16.

But still again and again you make same randi rona as indians.

So on this you well deserved it.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Flight of falcon

Here is another lie orchestrated by Modi’s airforce.....
Indians please tell me who is lying here. Your Rafael Pajama wearing air chief or the ministry of defence. Here is the latest jewel from your chief. Pakistanis never entered Indian air space:

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/iaf-achieved-military-objective-in-balakot-op-pakistani-side-did-not-come-into-our-airspace-dhanoa/articleshow/69930076.cms


Or official ministry of defence handout saying Pakistanis crossed into Indian airspace:

See attachment:

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TheTallGuy

Arsalan 345 said:


> It's useless to talk here.they gave me negative rating just because I raised questions about su-30 claim.they will give you negative rating as well if you challenge their narrative.i mean where is the wreckage of su-30? No body in the world can hide such a big plane and tallguy even claimed 3 su-30 went down.i mean this is crazy.



Dear Arsalan, 
I am answering you on basis of what claims i made on the forum. yes, you can question Pakistani narrative and your have God Given right to question. but when you question pakistani narrative you have to do it with some reason & logic.

When i claim that PAF shot down 8 IAF aircraft including 3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000i and 3 x MiG-21BISON i have provided specific information/reasons behind it. i have given you the version of Su-30MKI that are shot down. I have provided Squadron Numbers of each aircraft shot down and where did they took off and given how many actually IAF pilots and others are in custody. even provided the reason why wreckage of all 7 fighters (1 x Wreckage is with us) are not known to OSINT yet... but we have approximate location in IHK where they crashed. is the same as why there is not single picture of Pakistani Airstrike Damage on Indian Military compounds have surfaced on OSINT. 

Now, Question About Pakistani F-16 Shot down i have told you in Pakistan you have rampant corruption do you have any idea how much money IS floating around for the information and wreckage of F-16.its been three months approximate area where IAF claims IAF F-16 went down is not a place like IHK with 5 soldiers to 1 civilian ratio. it would have been unearthed quickly...

I asked you Why the F-16 why not Mirage 3DP these aircraft apparently went in IHK upto 37-40KM. they are not high tech could be shot down by MiG-21BISON and large fleet of Mirages in PAF it would be very hard for PAF and us at PDF to defend. But indian Narrative sticks at F-16 and that too a twin seat because we have a video evidence of 2 Ejections over LOC.

Dont be angry brother..bring some thing on the table and we discuss after all it is an open forum. i assure you politeness(not calling Names) and subjective discussion is rejuvenating and soul feeding process.

and in end we can always agree to disagree...its that simple..

@Armchair 

These days i am baiting IAF officer so he could come over with his ride preferably MiG-29 and have a long and happy life.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Falcon26

Flight of falcon said:


> Here is another lie orchestrated by Modi’s airforce.....
> Indians please tell me who is lying here. Your Rafael Pajama wearing air chief or the ministry of defence. Here is the latest jewel from your chief. Pakistanis never entered Indian air space:
> 
> https://m.timesofindia.com/india/iaf-achieved-military-objective-in-balakot-op-pakistani-side-did-not-come-into-our-airspace-dhanoa/articleshow/69930076.cms
> 
> 
> Or official ministry of defence handout saying Pakistanis crossed into Indian airspace:
> 
> See attachment:



They have lied so much that they forgot to keep track of their lies

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TheTallGuy

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> Used cars salesman? I wonder.... anyhow, we need to move forward.
> 
> I would like you to come up with a scenario or two as how IAF is going to get even...
> 
> As I have said a few times already... *There is NO regional hegemon anymore. And this is a dangerous thing!*
> 
> Before we had a soundbites rich.. of two-front-war-fame... on paper... pumped up by western media... regional hegemon... our neighbour to east.
> 
> And after 27th there is none. And this brings strategic calculus of the reinging empire to tailspin.... bad!
> 
> 8 or 2 is immaterial. What matters... for the first time... we acted as a State that Means Business.
> 
> We said we shall #SurpriseYou and we #SurprisedYou ... and after that ... let-me grab mijjils from Ganges...and then- I don't thinks so... from Pak.
> 
> All did not go on to live happily everafter... I fear we are in for another attack... now put on your thinking hat and think!
> 
> Go...on... Young Pak... suprise us as well!



Bhai Sb,
let me get this IAF officer or officers to defect with there MiG-29s to Pakistan. then we shall see..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MilSpec

Falcon26 said:


> The less said about India’s credibility the better. It lied and continues to lie despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Evidence contrary to Indian claims presented by neutral parties continue to be unanswered, yet India and Indians continue to repeat a debunked lie.


Institutional credibility of India far exceeds most with an organization like CAG, Hiding an entire aircraft from an audit is simply not possible irrespective of your conjecture.


Flight of falcon said:


> Indians have a track record of making false claims and sticking with most outrageous claims which were widely ridiculed. How can you trust such foe?
> 
> Remember 300 people were supposedly killed and F16 shot down claims.


Indian media reported about 225 casualties while an NTRO intercept of detecting close to 300 cell phones in the target sites was dubbed as 300 casualties in the media. IAF flat out refused to give out any casualty figure. India does not operate an equivalent of ISPR, whose credibility for the lack of better words is just "Stellar". (look up DG ISPR Rashid Qureshi).


Arsalan 345 said:


> It's useless to talk here.they gave me negative rating just because I raised questions about su-30 claim.they will give you negative rating as well if you challenge their narrative.i mean where is the wreckage of su-30? No body in the world can hide such a big plane and tallguy even claimed 3 su-30 went down.i mean this is crazy.



First and foremost, why would India hide its crashes? We have never done so. Even fratricides, Planes disappearing in the oceans, even mishap writeoff all are well documented and accounted for. The Indian military has to report to a civilian government and cannot just fudge its inventory and assets as it likes.

Lastly, India is a country where a BSF man not getting the bread of his liking can cause an uproar in the media, and Two missing pilots in combat would be suppressed. But then again most of the crop here believe in extravagant theories anyways, so if the members here want to back their CAS about downing a SU 30, I can understand.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Flight of falcon

MilSpec said:


> Institutional credibility of India far exceeds most with an organization like CAG, Hiding an entire aircraft from an audit is simply not possible irrespective of your conjecture.
> 
> Indian media reported about 225 casualties while an NTRO intercept of detecting close to 300 cell phones in the target sites was dubbed as 300 casualties in the media. IAF flat out refused to give out any casualty figure. India does not operate an equivalent of ISPR, whose credibility for the lack of better words is just "Stellar". (look up DG ISPR Rashid Qureshi).
> 
> 
> First and foremost, why would India hide its crashes? We have never done so. Even fratricides, Planes disappearing in the oceans, even mishap writeoff all are well documented and accounted for. The Indian military has to report to a civilian government and cannot just fudge its inventory and assets as it likes.
> 
> Lastly, India is a country where a BSF man not getting the bread of his liking can cause an uproar in the media, and Two missing pilots in combat would be suppressed. But then again most of the crop here believe in extravagant theories anyways, so if the members here want to back their CAS about downing a SU 30, I can understand.




Ok then please tell me who should we believe your air chief or ministry of defence? Whose version is the true one?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan 345

HRK said:


> plz don't play victim card .... your post was not rated negative because of your stance for Su-30 but you was rated negative by a fellow member because of your consistent claim of lost of F-16 which many times earlier was clarified to you by many other members time to time since 27 feb



I am not playing any victim card.yes I am sure about our f-16 kill.i can't ignore radar data whether you call it handwritten or whatever.i am not here to change your views or others.they are just my views but giving negative rating for specific views is wrong.as far as su-30 kill is concerned,I think tall guy has already explained things to me so kindly relax.



Vortex said:


> After 27 feb no MKI seen near border. Why ? Because at least 1 MKI was shot down by PAF. It is not an evidence, but a highly probable symptom of what happened.
> Adding to that the missiles attacks threats from India in the following days.
> 
> But for the F16, there is nothing like that.
> 
> But i will add that if 1 F16 was shotdown and that too by a Bison, then why indians were threatening us with missiles attacks ?
> 
> Events match the downing of MKI, and do not match with downing an F16.
> 
> But still again and again you make same randi rona as indians.
> 
> So on this you well deserved it.



Relax buddy.lol



MilSpec said:


> Institutional credibility of India far exceeds most with an organization like CAG, Hiding an entire aircraft from an audit is simply not possible irrespective of your conjecture.
> 
> Indian media reported about 225 casualties while an NTRO intercept of detecting close to 300 cell phones in the target sites was dubbed as 300 casualties in the media. IAF flat out refused to give out any casualty figure. India does not operate an equivalent of ISPR, whose credibility for the lack of better words is just "Stellar". (look up DG ISPR Rashid Qureshi).
> 
> 
> First and foremost, why would India hide its crashes? We have never done so. Even fratricides, Planes disappearing in the oceans, even mishap writeoff all are well documented and accounted for. The Indian military has to report to a civilian government and cannot just fudge its inventory and assets as it likes.
> 
> Lastly, India is a country where a BSF man not getting the bread of his liking can cause an uproar in the media, and Two missing pilots in combat would be suppressed. But then again most of the crop here believe in extravagant theories anyways, so if the members here want to back their CAS about downing a SU 30, I can understand.


Is there any incident in the past where India hide something from Pakistan? I don't remember anything and I feel that su-30 is a very big plane so it's hard.i can't deny Pakistani or indian narrative but our case is weak because there is absolutely no evidence.anything would be assumption but I am sure we lost a plane because the radar data was from awacs and it clearly showed targets so it's obvious for me to trust radars data.radar data might be corrupt or wrong but the jet that went down near loc was seen by all so indian narrative is still strong.


----------



## Bossman

After licking their a$$es for the last many weeks, the the Indian false flaggers, multiple iders and wannabe Pakistanis are back in full force on the the forum. They need to be cut down

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Vortex

Arsalan 345 said:


> I am not playing any victim card.yes I am sure about our f-16 kill.i can't ignore radar data whether you call it handwritten or whatever.i am not here to change your views or others.they are just my views but giving negative rating for specific views is wrong.as far as su-30 kill is concerned,I think tall guy has already explained things to me so kindly relax.
> 
> 
> 
> Relax buddy.lol





Arsalan 345 said:


> I am not playing any victim card.yes I am sure about our f-16 kill.i can't ignore radar data whether you call it handwritten or whatever.i am not here to change your views or others.they are just my views but giving negative rating for specific views is wrong.as far as su-30 kill is concerned,I think tall guy has already explained things to me so kindly relax.
> 
> 
> 
> Relax buddy.lol



Lol. Temperatures are very high in France. So it’s hard to relax lol.

About the data shown about F16 cleaned with vanish powder, i think you should have a look about the capabilities with photoshop in the hands of experts. Once a female collegue of mine asked me if i was able to remove a person from a picture. I said i never tried but it should be possible with time.

She gave me her picture from which she wanted to remove another women who was smarter/cute than her.

I said ok. After 2 weeks i presented her the result of my work. She was sooo happy that if i didn’t had stopped her she would had kissed me. Thanks to Allah I was prepared to any misbehaviour from her.

But the result was very good. And I’m not a photoshop expert at all.

So I let you imagine what can do experts with photoshop.

So data shown not really a credible evidence.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Flight of falcon

Vortex said:


> Lol. Temperatures are very high in France. So it’s hard to relax lol.
> 
> About the data shown about F16 cleaned with vanish powder, i think you should have a look about the capabilities with photoshop in the hands of experts. Once a female collegue of mine asked me if i was able to remove a person from a picture. I said i never tried but it should be possible with time.
> 
> She gave me her picture from which she wanted to remove another women who was smarter/cute than her.
> 
> I said ok. After 2 weeks i presented her the result of my work. She was sooo happy that if i didn’t had stopped her she would had kissed me. Thanks to Allah I was prepared to any misbehaviour from her.
> 
> But the result was very good. And I’m not a photoshop expert at all.
> 
> So I let you imagine what can do experts with photoshop.
> 
> So data shown not really a credible evidence.




I don’t know who you are Arsalan but your arguments are pretty childish and your logic is flawed. You are basically repeating nonsense Indians are spreading . 
I don’t know how to give you negative rating but I would give you big thumbs down.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Vortex

Flight of falcon said:


> I don’t know who you are Arsalan but your arguments are pretty childish and your logic is flawed. You are basically repeating nonsense Indians are spreading .
> I don’t know how to give you negative rating but I would give you big thumbs down.



Lol you quoted the wrong person

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GumNaam

Arsalan 345 said:


> I am not playing any victim card.yes I am sure about our f-16 kill.i can't ignore radar data whether you call it handwritten or whatever.i am not here to change your views or others.they are just my views but giving negative rating for specific views is wrong.as far as su-30 kill is concerned,I think tall guy has already explained things to me so kindly relax.
> 
> 
> 
> Relax buddy.lol
> 
> 
> Is there any incident in the past where India hide something from Pakistan? I don't remember anything and I feel that su-30 is a very big plane so it's hard.i can't deny Pakistani or indian narrative but our case is weak because there is absolutely no evidence.anything would be assumption but I am sure we lost a plane because the radar data was from awacs and it clearly showed targets so it's obvious for me to trust radars data.radar data might be corrupt or wrong but the jet that went down near loc was seen by all so indian narrative is still strong.


the fact that all the 4 missiles of the mig21 were found unfired, one fused to the crashed mig21 wreckage doesn't mean anything, aye? if you are so convinced on their (your) iaf's claim on the F16 issue, then care to explain how exactly did they shoot it down? if you are to believe their ms-paint job, then even that shows that the distances were far too create for close in gun fight...


----------



## HRK

Arsalan 345 said:


> yes I am sure about our f-16 kill


Final call ......... answer these Qs

Where is the wreckage of F-16 ... ??

Where are the down pilots of F-16 ....??

Which fighter jet of IAF made the kill .... ??

How Pakistan manage to keep downing of F-16 secrete .... as we know that US contractors act as observer over our F-16 fleet of blk-52

How are you quite sure that radar data shown by IAF is indicating the downing of F-16 as it could be a false radar signature generated in result of the employment of dedicated EW package by PAF ....??? keep in mind here I m not taking refuge behind the claims that Radar data shown by IAF was tempered or fake

Why only Indian AW&C manage to register the F-16 not the ground radars or any other IAF jet in the vicinity at that time not even the wingman of Abhinandan ....??? 

Why till to date dedicated Indian military satellites are unable to have a single pic of F-16 wreckage while Indian satellites have the capability of less or equal to 0.3 m resolution ...??

What is the geolocation coordinates of the place where F-16 was targeted by IAF and what could be the possible coordinates of F-16 wreckage ... ??? keep in mind IAF have the [so called] RADAR DATA which they have shown and both you and IAF are relying to propagate the theory of downing F-16

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Ultima Thule

Arsalan 345 said:


> I am not playing any victim card.yes I am sure about our f-16 kill.i can't ignore radar data whether you call it handwritten or whatever.i am not here to change your views or others.they are just my views but giving negative rating for specific views is wrong.as far as su-30 kill is concerned,I think tall guy has already explained things to me so kindly relax.


Those radar images can be created by IAF to face saving, the lost of signal from their radar doesn't means you have a 100% solid proof for downing our F-16, you can also consider other possibilities to, Azad kashmir/IOK is mountainous areas if our F-16 can go low level they lost our F-16 signals, there also possibility that our ECM aircraft (Falcon-20) can spoofs/ jam indian radars so they lost the signal of our F-16 etc etc, its a controversial claim by an IAF, and other possibilities you should also consider, that radar images aren't 100% solid proof of downing of our F-16 @Arsalan 345

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Falcon26

Vortex said:


> Lol. Temperatures are very high in France. So it’s hard to relax lol.
> 
> About the data shown about F16 cleaned with vanish powder, i think you should have a look about the capabilities with photoshop in the hands of experts. Once a female collegue of mine asked me if i was able to remove a person from a picture. I said i never tried but it should be possible with time.
> 
> She gave me her picture from which she wanted to remove another women who was smarter/cute than her.
> 
> I said ok. After 2 weeks i presented her the result of my work. She was sooo happy that if i didn’t had stopped her she would had kissed me. Thanks to Allah I was prepared to any misbehaviour from her.
> 
> But the result was very good. And I’m not a photoshop expert at all.
> 
> So I let you imagine what can do experts with photoshop.
> 
> So data shown not really a credible evidence.



The IAF claims were more than photoshops. They were downright dishonest and hence universally dismissed. They should not be allowed to be repeated on a forum like this.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MilSpec

Flight of falcon said:


> Ok then please tell me who should we believe your air chief or ministry of defence? Whose version is the true one?


The way I see it, PAF CAS and ISPR claim two kills, out of which one is confirmed and the other unconfirmed. IAF claims one kill which is unconfirmed. The only fact verifiable is one Mig21bis kill. As far as the strikes, IAF's debrief was plain jane, where it did not claim on any number of casualties, it claimed successfully hits, again the keyword being claimed, without any BDA released, that too remains a claim and not a verifiable fact. Ministry of defence never released an official statement, but a politician claimed the 300 number so that to me was never a contention of significance. (akin to Nawaz Sharif claiming 4000 casualties, don't know how much weight people here would assign to it)

Coming back to the topic at hand, I have no interest in backing either of the claims, but the conspiracy theories being propounded of downed MKI being covered up sounds preposterous to me knowing CAG will rip IAF to shreds if it tried doing so. It will also be political suicide to hide two IAF pilots being killed in combat and being covered up, their widows, parents, relatives will paint every TV channels red.



Arsalan 345 said:


> Is there any incident in the past where India hide something from Pakistan? I don't remember anything and I feel that su-30 is a very big plane so it's hard.i can't deny Pakistani or indian narrative but our case is weak because there is absolutely no evidence.anything would be assumption but I am sure we lost a plane because the radar data was from awacs and it clearly showed targets so it's obvious for me to trust radars data.radar data might be corrupt or wrong but the jet that went down near loc was seen by all so indian narrative is still strong.


It's not strong enough evidence to prove anything conclusively. 
The only thing that was concrete was downing of a Fishbed, everything else is just a claim, treat it as such.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## baqai

the most ironic thing is that if IAF had not shown that AMRAAM than claim of SU30 would have been in the same scenario as their claim of shooting down F-16 ... aik jhoot chupanay kai liye hazar jhoot bolnay partay hain


----------



## Psychic

Jackdaws said:


> when are you releasing the full Hamadoor Rehman Commission report?


It has been released a long time ago. 
Can be downloaded for free.


Jackdaws said:


> "India attacked in 65"


It did.

Ever heard of Raan of Kutch?
Ever heard of Haji Peer Pass?

We don't consider IOK as part of India, we attempted to retake our own territory before it could become too late---thanks to massive military aid from West post 62.
India OTOH attacked across international border.


Jackdaws said:


> "No army regulars in Kargil"


Siachen was Kargil in reverse.

I am yet to see an Indian criticize the role of Indian army in causing massive suffering for both countries(more so for India) as far as Siachen is concerned. 

Kargil bari jaldi yaad a jata hai --- Shuru tou tum ne Kiya tha


Jackdaws said:


> And capturing a pilot in your own territory is par for course. Imagine Germans lauding themselves for capturing British pilots over Germany in Ww2.


What kind of stupid statement that is?

Comparing WW2 to 21st century border engagement?

Incase you forgot, we breached your airspace with more than 12 aircraft and as per Sikh civillians in Jammu, kept circling overhead for quite some time----If shooting down was so easy------

Mr Moustache was shot down as soon as he entered our airspace. He paid for his folly, you make him a hero.
You should be questioning the caliber of TACDE graduate and his superiors for presenting us with an opportunity to humiliate India.


Jackdaws said:


> You can make as many excuses as you like.


So far, it's been you who is not making excuses but instead, dodging all the criticism of India's contradictory, preposterous and flawed claims.
Brings in 65,71, Kargil, WW2 and whatnot instead of digesting the fact that India got it's behind handed to her on a platter by a force much smaller in numbers and finances.

When the entire world is accepting Pakistan's version of events despite a lack of soft image.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Jackdaws

Psychic said:


> It has been released a long time ago.
> Can be downloaded for free.
> 
> It did.
> 
> Ever heard of Raan of Kutch?
> Ever heard of Haji Peer Pass?
> 
> We don't consider IOK as part of India, we attempted to retake our own territory before it could become too late---thanks to massive military aid from West post 62.
> India OTOH attacked across international border.
> 
> Siachen was Kargil in reverse.
> 
> I am yet to see an Indian criticize the role of Indian army in causing massive suffering for both countries(more so for India) as far as Siachen is concerned.
> 
> Kargil bari jaldi yaad a jata hai --- Shuru tou tum ne Kiya tha
> 
> What kind of stupid statement that is?
> 
> Comparing WW2 to 21st century border engagement?
> 
> Incase you forgot, we breached your airspace with more than 12 aircraft and as per Sikh civillians in Jammu, kept circling overhead for quite some time----If shooting down was so easy------
> 
> Mr Moustache was shot down as soon as he entered our airspace. He paid for his folly, you make him a hero.
> You should be questioning the caliber of TACDE graduate and his superiors for presenting us with an opportunity to humiliate India.
> 
> So far, it's been you who is not making excuses but instead, dodging all the criticism of India's contradictory, preposterous and flawed claims.
> Brings in 65,71, Kargil, WW2 and whatnot instead of digesting the fact that India got it's behind handed to her on a platter by a force much smaller in numbers and finances.
> 
> When the entire world is accepting Pakistan's version of events despite a lack of soft image.



1. How long after your debacle in 71 was it published? And even then, I don't think the full report was ever published.

2. In 1965, you were supposed by agreement to respect the sanctity of the LoAC. You breached it. You attacked Indian troops and expected that India won't retaliate. As usual, you were wrong. And you went to the UN asking the world to stop India. Check out the Bhutto video again.

Siachen was undemarcated. I think you briefly occupied it before India took you down.

Compare a pilot shot down over enemy territory. John McCain, he is considered a hero too. But as I said, you wouldn't know much about heroes.

Lol - which Sikhs saw you over Jammu?


----------



## GumNaam

Jackdaws said:


> 1. How long after your debacle in 71 was it published? And even then, I don't think the full report was ever published.
> 
> 2. In 1965, you were supposed by agreement to respect the sanctity of the LoAC. You breached it. You attacked Indian troops and expected that India won't retaliate. As usual, you were wrong. And you went to the UN asking the world to stop India. Check out the Bhutto video again.
> 
> Siachen was undemarcated. I think you briefly occupied it before India took you down.
> 
> Compare a pilot shot down over enemy territory. John McCain, he is considered a hero too. But as I said, you wouldn't know much about heroes.
> 
> Lol - which Sikhs saw you over Jammu?



71: gotta find yourself a bhutto, a mujeeb and rebellion in more than half of country's population first bitva...otherwise keep day dreaming about your long lost nostalgia. 

65: why don't you ask your own captain arminder singh on that? 

48: yeah you conveniently forgot this one, didn't ya? Oh wait, lemme guess you never wanted to take back,AJK didn't ya?

siachin: for once be a man...india's plan was to sneak into AJK from the barely guarded siachin area and annex AJK while Pakistan Army was busy on the afghan border but to your surprise, we stopped you dead in your tracks. ab thandi baraf pay baith kay kulfian hago! 

kargil: point 5353...'nuf said! 

02/19: 






auqaat may raho, zinda raho!


----------



## Mutakalim

Arsalan 345 said:


> It's useless to talk here.they gave me negative rating just because I raised questions about su-30 claim.they will give you negative rating as well if you challenge their narrative.i mean where is the wreckage of su-30? No body in the world can hide such a big plane and tallguy even claimed 3 su-30 went down.i mean this is crazy.



As far as my memory goes you are the same person who made the claim that IA has captured Pakistani territory in Sialkot sector which was later debunked. When some members asked about the source of your claim you said that I have learnt it from Indian sources. Keep believing your Indian sources and leave us alone.

Kiddo, you need checkup from a psychiatrist. We cant satisfy a person with some inferiority complex. 

Kesi kesi awam ha yr..... @Areesh



Arsalan 345 said:


> yes I am sure about our f-16 kill


You were also sure of capture of Akhnor salient by IA. Is it still in the hands of Indians?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Tejas Spokesman

GumNaam said:


> kargil: point 5353...'nuf said!


Kargil: Point 5310...'nuf said!


----------



## Arsalan 345

Vortex said:


> Lol you quoted the wrong person


Hahahaha he quoted you lol.you deserve it vortex lol


----------



## Areesh

Tejas Spokesman said:


> Kargil: Point 5310...'nuf said!



Point: You are a multiple ID rat who gets humiliated daily at PDF

nuff said



Gillani88 said:


> As far as my memory goes you are the same person who made the claim that IA has captured Pakistani territory in Sialkot sector which was later debunked. When some members asked about the source of your claim you said that I have learnt it from Indian sources. Keep believing your Indian sources and leave us alone.
> 
> Kiddo, you need checkup from a psychiatrist. We cant satisfy a person with some inferiority complex.
> 
> Kesi kesi awam ha yr..... @Areesh



Yup here:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/nope-indians-indian-army-didnt-capture-akhnoor-dagger-either.611917/

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Arsalan 345

HRK said:


> Final call ......... answer these Qs
> 
> Where is the wreckage of F-16 ... ??
> 
> Where are the down pilots of F-16 ....??
> 
> Which fighter jet of IAF made the kill .... ??
> 
> How Pakistan manage to keep downing of F-16 secrete .... as we know that US contractors act as observer over our F-16 fleet of blk-52
> 
> How are you quite sure that radar data shown by IAF is indicating the downing of F-16 as it could be a false radar signature generated in result of the employment of dedicated EW package by PAF ....??? keep in mind here I m not taking refuge behind the claims that Radar data shown by IAF was tempered or fake
> 
> Why only Indian AW&C manage to register the F-16 not the ground radars or any other IAF jet in the vicinity at that time not even the wingman of Abhinandan ....???
> 
> Why till to date dedicated Indian military satellites are unable to have a single pic of F-16 wreckage while Indian satellites have the capability of less or equal to 0.3 m resolution ...??
> 
> What is the geolocation coordinates of the place where F-16 was targeted by IAF and what could be the possible coordinates of F-16 wreckage ... ??? keep in mind IAF have the [so called] RADAR DATA which they have shown and both you and IAF are relying to propagate the theory of downing F-16



There are videos available clearly showed two planes going down.you have asked lots of critical question but you forget our statements which changed dramatically during that day.how can you describe two jets down, two pilots in the area? He said One pilot died in cmh in kamran Khan show?than finally one plane went down and nobody killed.how can you describe our narrative? I think first we need to clarify things before we raise questions on indian radar data.radar data can be fake but I don't see India lying on such bigger incident.where are the two pilots? Who died in cmh? Can you answer?

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

Arsalan 345 said:


> There are videos available clearly showed two planes going down.you have asked lots of critical question but you forget our statements which changed dramatically during that day.how can you describe two jets down, two pilots in the area? One pilot died in cmh in kamran Khan show?than finally one plane went down and nobody killed.how can you describe our narrative? I think first we need to clarify things before we raise questions on indian radar data.radar data can be fake but I don't see India lying on such bigger incident.where are the two pilots? Who died in cmh? Can you answer?


to be fair thought you remember that both MKI/Mig-21 have less ranged BVR (R-77) than our AMRAAM (105 km vs 80 km) its a better chance to assume that MKI down by our F-16 rather false claims of Indian that abhi shot down our F-16 (Mig-21 can't guide R-77 properly because of small dia radome (less range))
as for two pilots they claims only 1 so we gave them abhi, rest would be dead or still in our custody, think logically and use commonsense @Arsalan 345

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ali Tariq

Arsalan 345 said:


> One pilot died in cmh in kamran Khan show?





Arsalan 345 said:


> Can you answer?


DG ISPR already answered every question. As for your 'QUESTIONS', “It's always possible to wake someone from sleep, but no amount of noise will wake someone who is pretending to be asleep.”

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Arsalan 345

pakistanipower said:


> to be fair thought you remember that both MKI/Mig-21 have less ranged BVR (R-77) than our AMRAAM (105 km vs 80 km) its a better chance to assume that MKI down by our F-16 rather false claims of Indian that abhi shot down our F-16 (Mig-21 can't guide R-77 properly because of small dia radome (less range))
> as for two pilots they claims only 1 so we gave them abhi, rest would be dead or still in our custody, think logically and use commonsense @Arsalan 345



I have seen the picture of 2nd jet.the engine look like f-16 engine but from wings and wingspan,it clearly look like su-30.


----------



## Ali Tariq

Arsalan 345 said:


> I have seen the picture of 2nd jet.the engine look like f-16 engine but from wings and wingspan,it clearly look like su-30.


You, sir, are a lost case. You deserve much more negative ratings, you are worse than the indians.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ultima Thule

Arsalan 345 said:


> I have seen the picture of 2nd jet.the engine look like f-16 engine but from wings and wingspan,it clearly look like su-30.


which picture do you talking about can you share that picture with us @Arsalan 345 and there were lots of claims early after incident that indians claims that they have pictures of downed F-16 but its actually a wreck of downed MIG-21 @Arsalan 345

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SIPRA

Arsalan 345 said:


> He said One pilot died in cmh in kamran Khan show? Who died in cmh?



Again listen that interview. He never mentioned CMH. This is what exactly, DG(ISPR) said in that interview (March 5):

"Un kay do tayyaray maar giraye. Aik pilot ki death hui. Aik hamari arrest main tha, jiss ko release ker diya."
(Shot their two aircraft. One pilot died. One was arrested by us, which was released.)

In this program, he never said any pilot died in our custody. It may imply his assumption that the pilot of the second aircraft, which fell in IOK, died on board.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ziaulislam

Partly for indian narrative to begin is our people propagating weird conspiracy theories 

Just stick with the official version guys

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Vortex

@Arsalan 345 is possessed by indian djiin ! I don’t see another explanation.

Yes Arsalan share with us the pic you are talking about please.

Even indian we’re showing an engine they thought was if F16, but an expert told them sorry but no, its a mig 21 engine. I hope you are not talking about same pic.

Waiting you share with us the pic.


----------



## HRK

Arsalan 345 said:


> There are videos available clearly showed two planes going down.you have asked lots of critical question but you forget our statements which changed dramatically during that day.how can you describe two jets down, two pilots in the area? He said One pilot died in cmh in kamran Khan show?than finally one plane went down and nobody killed.how can you describe our narrative? I think first we need to clarify things before we raise questions on indian radar data.radar data can be fake but I don't see India lying on such bigger incident.where are the two pilots? Who died in cmh? Can you answer?


go and reread the the whole threads on the topic .... and stop blabbering about F-16 all your queries were answered many times ....


----------



## Bratva

HRK said:


> go and reread the the whole threads on the topic .... and stop blabbering about F-16 all your queries were answered many times ....



He is an active user on Defence.forum.India. This is where he pickups his absurd theories and facts from. And believe whatever venom indian users are spewing there. The level of delusions over there and the conviction with which they say they shot down F-16 and the level of amnesia about Mi-17 Helicopter shotdown is astounding there. And he believes them more than us.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Sergi

Flight of falcon said:


> Bro what kind of stupid logic is this? First you guys make an idiotic claim then you ask us to prove it wrong and then we simply say move on not worth commenting on this stupidity you claim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beta just like the tomatoes and onions you eat from Pakistan we may have tea and garlic from India. And yes we don’t import cow urine. There is too much demand for that in your country where apparently tea consumption is going down and cow urine use is going up.
> 
> By the way I gotta give credit to poster name Jackass. He is persistent in his stupidity and trolling.
> 
> My request to my Indian brothers please please get your head out of Modi’s rear end and stop listening to Modi army and Modi airforce versions. There is truth out there and no matter how humiliating it may be for Indians it is the truth so seek it.


Beta .... YouTube pe dekh le ki ek Pakistani chacha Tamatar na milane pe India ko Nuke karane ki baat kar rahe hai.

Again my question to all responders and @waz too. Do you guies understand my posts ??? Or you are repling fro reply sake ???
Mod gave me a strick (not that I care ) but did he even read who started that “RAW” comment.
Nevertheless, I was here for bit. Not going to be here after today.
Good luck to all of you and may your allah bless you with the better understanding capabilities so that you can understand what someone is saying. NO NEED TO PAINT EVERYTHING GREEN OR SAFFRON


----------



## Arsalan 345

HRK said:


> go and reread the the whole threads on the topic .... and stop blabbering about F-16 all your queries were answered many times ....



You have no answers and your negative rating seriously looks like funny.



Vortex said:


> @Arsalan 345 is possessed by indian djiin ! I don’t see another explanation.
> 
> Yes Arsalan share with us the pic you are talking about please.
> 
> Even indian we’re showing an engine they thought was if F16, but an expert told them sorry but no, its a mig 21 engine. I hope you are not talking about same pic.
> 
> Waiting you share with us the pic.



I have picture but I will not share here because even PDF think tank here don't have any clue regarding indian radar data.basically here you have to praise our actions Everytime and I can't do it everytime.i already received 2 negative ratings.if I share picture,they will give them more so it's better for me not to raise questions.i will stay quiet and I hope we will find out the reality.thanks.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1


----------



## Vortex

Arsalan 345 said:


> You have no answers and your negative rating seriously looks like funny.
> 
> 
> 
> I have picture but I will not share here because even PDF think tank here don't have any clue regarding indian radar data.basically here you have to praise our actions Everytime and I can't do it everytime.i already received 2 negative ratings.if I share picture,they will give them more so it's better for me not to raise questions.i will stay quiet and I hope we will find out the reality.thanks.



You do care more about rating than truth now ? 

If your pic is a solid evidence then why hide it ? Give it us and i will review my position. But so far i didn’t saw any solid evidence. 

About indian radar’s screen pic shown by their drag queens, they shown 2 pics : pic 1 and pic 2. 
But we have no information about the timestamp of those pics. 

Its like if police show us a pic of you going out from a room, then a second pic of a murder who happened in the same room from where you were seen going out in the first pic. Is it an evidence that you are the murderer ? No honest court will accept it, and you will say thanks to those honest courts.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GumNaam

Tejas Spokesman said:


> Kargil: Point 5310...'nuf said!


Pulling Facebook news outta your arse again? 'Nuf said...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Armchair

TheTallGuy said:


> Dear Arsalan,
> I am answering you on basis of what claims i made on the forum. yes, you can question Pakistani narrative and your have God Given right to question. but when you question pakistani narrative you have to do it with some reason & logic.
> 
> When i claim that PAF shot down 8 IAF aircraft including 3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000i and 3 x MiG-21BISON i have provided specific information/reasons behind it. i have given you the version of Su-30MKI that are shot down. I have provided Squadron Numbers of each aircraft shot down and where did they took off and given how many actually IAF pilots and others are in custody. even provided the reason why wreckage of all 7 fighters (1 x Wreckage is with us) are not known to OSINT yet... but we have approximate location in IHK where they crashed. is the same as why there is not single picture of Pakistani Airstrike Damage on Indian Military compounds have surfaced on OSINT.
> 
> Now, Question About Pakistani F-16 Shot down i have told you in Pakistan you have rampant corruption do you have any idea how much money IS floating around for the information and wreckage of F-16.its been three months approximate area where IAF claims IAF F-16 went down is not a place like IHK with 5 soldiers to 1 civilian ratio. it would have been unearthed quickly...
> 
> I asked you Why the F-16 why not Mirage 3DP these aircraft apparently went in IHK upto 37-40KM. they are not high tech could be shot down by MiG-21BISON and large fleet of Mirages in PAF it would be very hard for PAF and us at PDF to defend. But indian Narrative sticks at F-16 and that too a twin seat because we have a video evidence of 2 Ejections over LOC.
> 
> Dont be angry brother..bring some thing on the table and we discuss after all it is an open forum. i assure you politeness(not calling Names) and subjective discussion is rejuvenating and soul feeding process.
> 
> and in end we can always agree to disagree...its that simple..
> 
> @Armchair
> 
> These days i am baiting IAF officer so he could come over with his ride preferably MiG-29 and have a long and happy life.



I love your posts bro. That would be an achievement if you could do that. If anyone could do it, it would definitely be a salesman. 

About the rest of your post, would it be too much to ask the serial numbers and where they took off from and their approximate wreckage? I will then try to find SOC or someone with good OSINT and locate the wreckage. IF they buried the wrecks, rains may bring them out again.


----------



## Mutakalim

Arsalan 345 said:


> I have picture but I will not share here because even PDF think tank here don't have any clue regarding indian radar data.basically here you have to praise our actions Everytime and I can't do it everytime.i already received 2 negative ratings.if I share picture,they will give them more so it's better for me not to raise questions.i will stay quiet and I hope we will find out the reality.thanks.


Do you have any picture of Akhnoor dagger? Because last time I heard about it from a genius like you, it was captured by Indian army. You must have Hindu sources inside Indian army who are giving you this most secret information. Hindu sources must be more credible than your fellow Muslims.


----------



## GumNaam

TheTallGuy said:


> Dear Arsalan,
> I am answering you on basis of what claims i made on the forum. yes, you can question Pakistani narrative and your have God Given right to question. but when you question pakistani narrative you have to do it with some reason & logic.
> 
> When i claim that PAF shot down 8 IAF aircraft including 3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000i and 3 x MiG-21BISON i have provided specific information/reasons behind it. i have given you the version of Su-30MKI that are shot down. I have provided Squadron Numbers of each aircraft shot down and where did they took off and given how many actually IAF pilots and others are in custody. even provided the reason why wreckage of all 7 fighters (1 x Wreckage is with us) are not known to OSINT yet... but we have approximate location in IHK where they crashed. is the same as why there is not single picture of Pakistani Airstrike Damage on Indian Military compounds have surfaced on OSINT.
> 
> Now, Question About Pakistani F-16 Shot down i have told you in Pakistan you have rampant corruption do you have any idea how much money IS floating around for the information and wreckage of F-16.its been three months approximate area where IAF claims IAF F-16 went down is not a place like IHK with 5 soldiers to 1 civilian ratio. it would have been unearthed quickly...
> 
> I asked you Why the F-16 why not Mirage 3DP these aircraft apparently went in IHK upto 37-40KM. they are not high tech could be shot down by MiG-21BISON and large fleet of Mirages in PAF it would be very hard for PAF and us at PDF to defend. But indian Narrative sticks at F-16 and that too a twin seat because we have a video evidence of 2 Ejections over LOC.
> 
> Dont be angry brother..bring some thing on the table and we discuss after all it is an open forum. i assure you politeness(not calling Names) and subjective discussion is rejuvenating and soul feeding process.
> 
> and in end we can always agree to disagree...its that simple..
> 
> @Armchair
> 
> These days i am baiting IAF officer so he could come over with his ride preferably MiG-29 and have a long and happy life.


@TheTallGuy can you post the link(s) to the replies and posts where you proved that we shot down 8 iaf aircrafts? I some how missed your posts...


----------



## Vortex

GumNaam said:


> @TheTallGuy can you post the link(s) to the replies and posts where you proved that we shot down 8 iaf aircrafts? I some how missed your posts...



@TheTallGuy could you add the link requested by GumNaam in your signature please ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Flight of falcon

Arsalan reminds me of one specific patient I have in my practice who loves NS. I have never met anyone more crazy for NS. I love to sit down and question and reason with him and everytime before he leaves my clinic He convinces me that he has changed and totally sees the truth. 
Long behold at night I log into my face book account and see this guy posting over the top praises for NS. 

Modi lovers and Arsalan are like this guy. No matter how much evidence you provide or argue facts with them they will always be donkeys at the end of the day. They cannot see the truth or have courage enough to accept they are wrong. 
Who can win an argument with donkeys ?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## TsAr

Flight of falcon said:


> Arsalan reminds me of one specific patient I have in my practice who loves NS. I have never met anyone more crazy for NS. I love to sit down and question and reason with him and everytime before he leaves my clinic He convinces me that he has changed and totally sees the truth.
> Long behold at night I log into my face book account and see this guy posting over the top praises for NS.
> 
> Modi lovers and Arsalan are like this guy. No matter how much evidence you provide or argue facts with them they will always be donkeys at the end of the day. They cannot see the truth or have courage enough to accept they are wrong.
> Who can win an argument with donkeys ?


Keep trying don't give up on that guy.....one day he might see the light at the end of the tunnel.


----------



## Arsalan 345

Flight of falcon said:


> Arsalan reminds me of one specific patient I have in my practice who loves NS. I have never met anyone more crazy for NS. I love to sit down and question and reason with him and everytime before he leaves my clinic He convinces me that he has changed and totally sees the truth.
> Long behold at night I log into my face book account and see this guy posting over the top praises for NS.
> 
> Modi lovers and Arsalan are like this guy. No matter how much evidence you provide or argue facts with them they will always be donkeys at the end of the day. They cannot see the truth or have courage enough to accept they are wrong.
> Who can win an argument with donkeys ?



May be I am wrong.lets hope for better future and better India pak ties.hostility between these two countries is not good.


----------



## Vortex

Flight of falcon said:


> Arsalan reminds me of one specific patient I have in my practice who loves NS. I have never met anyone more crazy for NS. I love to sit down and question and reason with him and everytime before he leaves my clinic He convinces me that he has changed and totally sees the truth.
> Long behold at night I log into my face book account and see this guy posting over the top praises for NS.
> 
> Modi lovers and Arsalan are like this guy. No matter how much evidence you provide or argue facts with them they will always be donkeys at the end of the day. They cannot see the truth or have courage enough to accept they are wrong.
> Who can win an argument with donkeys ?




Who can win an argument with donkeys ? The danda ? 

Its only a joke, no need to take danda for @Arsalan 345

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arsalan 345

TsAr said:


> Keep trying don't give up on that guy.....one day he might see the light at the end of the tunnel.



May be I am wrong.lets hope for better India Pak relations.

1 negative rating from major Sam and today 2 negative ratings from hrk which is PDF think tank.wow. have a great day.i will not raise any questions now.lets hope for better ties between india and pakistan.thanks


----------



## GumNaam

Arsalan 345 said:


> May be I am wrong.lets hope for better future and better *India pak* ties.hostility between these two countries is not good.


you ARE wrong and you are also an indian false flagger. your subconsciousness exposed you even though you are consciously pretending to a Pakistani. only and indian would capitalize india and type Pak in lower case, just like I, being an actual Pakistani, do the opposite. 

#gotcha

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## masterchief_mirza

GumNaam said:


> you ARE wrong and you are also an indian false flagger. your subconsciousness exposed you even though you are consciously pretending to a Pakistani. only and indian would capitalize india and type Pak in lower case, just like I, being an actual Pakistani, do the opposite.
> 
> #gotcha


Lol. That has got to be the single worst piece of circumstantial evidence I ever heard to label someone as an Indian false flagger. But yeah I agree that he is one.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Flight of falcon

masterchief_mirza said:


> Lol. That has got to be the single worst piece of circumstantial evidence I ever heard to label someone as an Indian false flagger. But yeah I agree that he is one.



No need to threaten dunda.... we can win over Arsalan with biryani.... like most Patwaris


----------



## GumNaam

masterchief_mirza said:


> Lol. That has got to be the single worst piece of circumstantial evidence I ever heard to label someone as an Indian false flagger. But yeah I agree that he is one.


don't be so sure man...circumstantial evidence, as bad as it may be, gives away A LOT about people...

e.g. just how someone holds a coffee cup will give away if they are a west european or an east european.


----------



## Flight of falcon

India shuts down twitter accounts of military analysts for questioning Indian strike on Pakistan. 


https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/india-trying-suppress-military-analysts-twitter-63282


----------



## Vortex

Flight of falcon said:


> India shuts down twitter accounts of military analysts for questioning Indian strike on Pakistan.
> 
> 
> https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/india-trying-suppress-military-analysts-twitter-63282




A solid evidence that the truth is bery painful for indians.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SQ8

Flight of falcon said:


> India shuts down twitter accounts of military analysts for questioning Indian strike on Pakistan.
> 
> 
> https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/india-trying-suppress-military-analysts-twitter-63282


Because they fear the fragility of their lies more than anything else; even their online call center army is running out of steam.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Psychic

Jackdaws said:


> 1. How long after your debacle in 71 was it published? And even then, I don't think the full report was ever published.
> 
> 2. In 1965, you were supposed by agreement to respect the sanctity of the LoAC. You breached it. You attacked Indian troops and expected that India won't retaliate. As usual, you were wrong. And you went to the UN asking the world to stop India. Check out the Bhutto video again.
> 
> Siachen was undemarcated. I think you briefly occupied it before India took you down.
> 
> Compare a pilot shot down over enemy territory. John McCain, he is considered a hero too. But as I said, you wouldn't know much about heroes.
> 
> Lol - which Sikhs saw you over Jammu?





> *Now compare that to Pakistan - when are you releasing the full Hamadoor Rehman Commission report? It's been what - 50 years?*





> How long after your debacle in 71 was it published?


You claimed it wasn't published and I debunked your claim.
Are you going to carry on making off-topic false claims and me debunking them?
Now since you got debunked you brought the date of it's publication which is irrelevant. 


> 2. In 1965, you were supposed by agreement to respect the sanctity of the LoAC. You breached it.


India has the right to take Kashmir,Junagarh and Hydrabad all at once; attack Rann of Kutch, Haji Peer Pass; Declare Kashmir it's integral part despite making promisses to the contrary in UN and whatnot---But but but evil Pakistanis attacked Kashmir.
India was stalling all talks on Kashmir and taking full benefit of Western aid post 62 which was increasing the disparity by every passing day----That was what caused the war, India's refusal to abide by her commitments. 


> Siachen was undemarcated


No it wasn't.
Demarcated as per Karachi agreement.


> I think you briefly occupied it before India took you down.


It is irrelevant whether we briefly "occupied" it or not since it was our own territory.
Pre-84, every foreign expedition there applied for Pakistani visas and employed Pakistani guides and porters in that area. Every Atlas marked that area under Pakistani control pre-84.
Now thanks to that "genius" Rajinder Kumar, both countries spend millions per day to maintain their posts apart from suffering casualties and deteriorating environment. 
But we Pakistanis are the most evil nation and India is the most peaceful, minority loving, law abiding nation on the face of this planet.


> Compare a pilot shot down over enemy territory. John McCain, he is considered a hero too.


Apples to oranges.

We consider the one who shot him down as a hero. You consider the one who was shot down a hero.

And we are not talking about full-scale war in which suffering attrition due to enemy action is inevitable; we are talking about a lone mig21 crossing LOC despite GC telling him to turn back and getting shot down.

Overall poor show by IAF; despite massive budget and large fleet, couldn't prevent a dozen airplanes from breaching, dropping bombs and getting away unscathed. Instead, got their's shot down and captured.


> Lol - which Sikhs saw you over Jammu?


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indians-describe-paf-raid-on-27th-feb.622747/
LOL

Now please stick to the topic.



Arsalan 345 said:


> I have picture but I will not share here because even PDF think tank here don't have any clue regarding indian radar data.basically here you have to praise our actions Everytime and I can't do it everytime.i already received 2 negative ratings.if I share picture,they will give them more so it's better for me not to raise questions.i will stay quiet and I hope we will find out the reality.thanks.


Still radar images prove nothing. Unless it's a video with aircraft heading, speed, altitude and other data displayed in real-time. Only that can describe if the aircraft is shot down or has dived.
Even those can be faked.
I can make similar images in vector software or PS in a matter of minutes. 
It is laughable that you find those MS paint images credible. 

Besides there are a dozen ways which can make blip disappear. 
Ever heard of terrain masking?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Jackdaws

Psychic said:


> You claimed it wasn't published and I debunked your claim.
> Are you going to carry on making off-topic false claims and me debunking them?
> Now since you got debunked you brought the date of it's publication which is irrelevant.
> 
> India has the right to take Kashmir,Junagarh and Hydrabad all at once; attack Rann of Kutch, Haji Peer Pass; Declare Kashmir it's integral part despite making promisses to the contrary in UN and whatnot---But but but evil Pakistanis attacked Kashmir.
> India was stalling all talks on Kashmir and taking full benefit of Western aid post 62 which was increasing the disparity by every passing day----That was what caused the war, India's refusal to abide by her commitments.
> 
> No it wasn't.
> Demarcated as per Karachi agreement.
> 
> It is irrelevant whether we briefly "occupied" it or not since it was our own territory.
> Pre-84, every foreign expedition there applied for Pakistani visas and employed Pakistani guides and porters in that area. Every Atlas marked that area under Pakistani control pre-84.
> Now thanks to that "genius" Rajinder Kumar, both countries spend millions per day to maintain their posts apart from suffering casualties and deteriorating environment.
> But we Pakistanis are the most evil nation and India is the most peaceful, minority loving, law abiding nation on the face of this planet.
> 
> Apples to oranges.
> 
> We consider the one who shot him down as a hero. You consider the one who was shot down a hero.
> 
> And we are not talking about full-scale war in which suffering attrition due to enemy action is inevitable; we are talking about a lone mig21 crossing LOC despite GC telling him to turn back and getting shot down.
> 
> Overall poor show by IAF; despite massive budget and large fleet, couldn't prevent a dozen airplanes from breaching, dropping bombs and getting away unscathed. Instead, got their's shot down and captured.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indians-describe-paf-raid-on-27th-feb.622747/
> LOL
> 
> Now please stick to the topic.


Lol. No you didn't. I specifically asked - "When are you releasing the FULL report?". Last I checked, only part of the report has been released.

There was a referendum in Junagadh. You could have sent troops in but you declined. Theoretically, it legally acceded to Pakistan. The case is still pending before the Security Council. Feel free to pursue it.

You lost Haji Peer pass in a counter attack after you breached the LoAC.

Siachen was not demarcated by any agreement. You simply started sending tourists there for mountaineering. 

We are talking about a pilot who did his job when his country's borders were breached as opposed to those that didn't.

So yea, let's get back to the topic


----------



## Psychic

Jackdaws said:


> Lol. No you didn't. I specifically asked - "When are you releasing the FULL report?". Last I checked, only part of the report has been released.
> 
> There was a referendum in Junagadh. You could have sent troops in but you declined. Theoretically, it legally acceded to Pakistan. The case is still pending before the Security Council. Feel free to pursue it.
> 
> You lost Haji Peer pass in a counter attack after you breached the LoAC.
> 
> Siachen was not demarcated by any agreement. You simply started sending tourists there for mountaineering.
> 
> We are talking about a pilot who did his job when his country's borders were breached as opposed to those that didn't.


You have got no moral leg to stand on when you claim Kashmir.
No matter how many excuses you make.
You didn't even abide by your own commitments. Commitments made in UN, Lok Sabha or even to Sheikh Abdullah. 
Junagahr and Hydrabad were Kashmir in reverse. Your country has dual moral standards.
You wouldn't be defending the occupation of Kashmir if it were a Hindu majority region occupied by Pakistan.
You would've been supporting struggle of "oppressed Hindu majority in Kashmir" if it were a Hindu majority region occupied by Pakistan.
You had no land route to Kashmir if it were not for Nehrus rangrallian and his obsession which turned subcontinent into a war-zone.
You succeeded in land grabbing and are now trying to pass it off as a just occupation which it isn't.
You can carry on defending injustices since that is what Indian narrative is all about.

Still no word on blatant Indian aggression on Raan of Kutch. Or various incursions post-Simla agreemennt on LOC prior to Siachen adventure.


Jackdaws said:


> after you breached the LoAC.


When did we attack along the Chinese border?


Jackdaws said:


> Siachen was not demarcated by any agreement.


It was.
As per Karachi agreement.

Even if it weren't was India hibernating pre-84.


Jackdaws said:


> We are talking about a pilot who did his job when his country's borders were breached* as opposed to those that didn't.*






​PAF hammered your forces. Bombed your installations, shot down plane, one helo shot down by friendly fire------------But but but, IAF did it's job, PAF failed to do it's job-----RIP Logic.



> We are talking about a pilot who did his job when his country's borders were breached


IAF drops SPICE at one target, turns back safely------India wins.
PAF strikes at not one but four military installations, turn back safely-------India wins.
A lone fighter decides to go rambo* after PAF has already left*, gets shot down, captured--------India wins.
LMAO

BTW what's this beghairati?
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/india-trying-suppress-military-analysts-twitter-63282




> When are you releasing the FULL report?". Last I checked, only part of the report has been released.


Full report has been released.
There was a supplementary report which wasn't released. It is of inconsequential importance as all the recommendations including those of court martials are already in the published report.

You talk as if we are answerable to India. Ever find any fault with the "great" nation of India or is it a utopia?
You can even get away with electing mass murderers as your PM and ministers. Getting away with anti-minority pogroms is nothing in front of that besides gross human rights violations in Kashmir. 
Neither does anyone talk about India's meddling in East Pakistan nor it's blatant aggression by crossing *international border *on 20/21 Nov 1971.

Now instead of de-railing this thread, either post something of substance regarding 26th,27th Feb or don't post at all.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Jackdaws

Psychic said:


> You have got no moral leg to stand on when you claim Kashmir.
> No matter how many excuses you make.
> You didn't even abide by your own commitments. Commitments made in UN, Lok Sabha or even to Sheikh Abdullah.
> Junagahr and Hydrabad were Kashmir in reverse. Your country has dual moral standards.
> You wouldn't be defending the occupation of Kashmir if it were a Hindu majority region occupied by Pakistan.
> You would've been supporting struggle of "oppressed Hindu majority in Kashmir" if it were a Hindu majority region occupied by Pakistan.
> You had no land route to Kashmir if it were not for Nehrus rangrallian and his obsession which turned subcontinent into a war-zone.
> You succeeded in land grabbing and are now trying to pass it off as a just occupation which it isn't.
> You can carry on defending injustices since that is what Indian narrative is all about.
> 
> Still no word on blatant Indian aggression on Raan of Kutch. Or various incursions post-Simla agreemennt on LOC prior to Siachen adventure.
> 
> When did we attack along the Chinese border?
> 
> It was.
> As per Karachi agreement.
> 
> Even if it weren't was India hibernating pre-84.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​PAF hammered your forces. Bombed your installations, shot down plane, one helo shot down by friendly fire------------But but but, IAF did it's job, PAF failed to do it's job-----RIP Logic.
> 
> 
> IAF drops SPICE at one target, turns back safely------India wins.
> PAF strikes at not one but four military installations, turn back safely-------India wins.
> A lone fighter decides to go rambo* after PAF has already left*, gets shot down, captured--------India wins.
> LMAO
> 
> BTW what's this beghairati?
> https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/india-trying-suppress-military-analysts-twitter-63282
> 
> 
> 
> Full report has been released.
> There was a supplementary report which wasn't released. It is of inconsequential importance as all the recommendations including those of court martials are already in the published report.
> 
> You talk as if we are answerable to India. Ever find any fault with the "great" nation of India or is it a utopia?
> You can even get away with electing mass murderers as your PM and ministers. Getting away with anti-minority pogroms is nothing in front of that besides gross human rights violations in Kashmir.
> Neither does anyone talk about India's meddling in East Pakistan nor it's blatant aggression by crossing *international border *on 20/21 Nov 1971.
> 
> Now instead of de-railing this thread, either post something of substance regarding 26th,27th Feb or don't post at all.




Yawn. You can froth at the mouth and lie as much as you like. It doesn't change facts - 

1. On Feb 26th - India crossed LoC and then IB and bombed Balakot. For close to a month and a half you didn't give journalists free access. Just showed them what you wanted them to see. I guess the crows were stopping them. You did not even try to stop the Indians. 

2. On Feb 27th - you at most crossed the LoC, and were chased away before you could do any damage. The guy chasing entered 4 km into your territory and you shot him down. And you promptly returned him - after both Modi and Trump hinted that the deal had been sealed for his return. 

Now coming back to your incorrect history - 

1. You had a Standstill Agreement with Maharaja of Kashmir - you violated it. It was a free country - like Sikkim, Bhutan, Nepal or other Himalayan lands. Now you cry for the "freedom" of an erstwhile free country which you invaded in the first place. RIP Logic. 

2. Rann of Kutch - what is the issue? A tribunal decided the matter after a skirmish and it was accepted. You didn't get as much as you wanted - but you must be used to that. 

3. I don't know how much of your own history you know. The supplementary report was released - the main report has never been released.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GumNaam

Jackdaws said:


> Yawn. You can froth at the mouth and lie as much as you like. It doesn't change facts -
> 
> 1. On Feb 26th - India crossed LoC and then IB and bombed Balakot. For close to a month and a half you didn't give journalists free access. Just showed them what you wanted them to see. I guess the crows were stopping them. You did not even try to stop the Indians.
> 
> 2. On Feb 27th - you at most crossed the LoC, and were chased away before you could do any damage. The guy chasing entered 4 km into your territory and you shot him down. And you promptly returned him - after both Modi and Trump hinted that the deal had been sealed for his return.
> 
> Now coming back to your incorrect history -
> 
> 1. You had a Standstill Agreement with Maharaja of Kashmir - you violated it. It was a free country - like Sikkim, Bhutan, Nepal or other Himalayan lands. Now you cry for the "freedom" of an erstwhile free country which you invaded in the first place. RIP Logic.
> 
> 2. Rann of Kutch - what is the issue? A tribunal decided the matter after a skirmish and it was accepted. You didn't get as much as you wanted - but you must be used to that.
> 
> 3. I don't know how much of your own history you know. The supplementary report was released - the main report has never been released.


YAWN...still waiting for you to answer our question on how did your abhi-the-none-done shot shazazashzashsazshaszuddin down without firing a single missile...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## zulu

Not much but got some weight in it.Whenever i have to write india dont know why always an thought """capital i kyn use karoo yeh tu izzat dainy wali baat """ and if i ever forget to use capital P with Pakistan its bother me .May be many here experience the same 


GumNaam said:


> you ARE wrong and you are also an indian false flagger. your subconsciousness exposed you even though you are consciously pretending to a Pakistani. only and indian would capitalize india and type Pak in lower case, just like I, being an actual Pakistani, do the opposite.
> 
> #gotcha

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Flight of falcon

Hey Jack you still have not answered my question. Who do we believe is telling the truth : your air chief or your defence ministry? If the mission was over in 90 second as the pilots claimed then Indian jets flew only 45 seconds inside Pakistani territory before returning across the line of control. But supposedly your government also claimed they flew inside Pakistani territory for 20 min. Who is telling the truth? Or is it that lying is your country’s favourite past time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TheTallGuy

GumNaam said:


> @TheTallGuy can you post the link(s) to the replies and posts where you proved that we shot down 8 iaf aircrafts? I some how missed your posts...



Brother, Its your ignorance...you have to go through all of my posts.. 



Vortex said:


> @TheTallGuy could you add the link requested by GumNaam in your signature please ?



Nope!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1st.
by the way add this "we have two pilots in our ranks who have more then 1 kill to there credit!

2nd..
All eyes North! time is ticking...tick tok tick tok


----------



## Vortex

TheTallGuy said:


> Nope!
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 1st.
> by the way add this "we have two pilots in our ranks who have more then 1 kill to there credit!
> 
> 2nd..
> All eyes North! time is ticking...tick tok tick tok




I asked this because I’ve seen several people requesting the link to your post where you explained your position.

But no problem Sir if your turn down it.

I didn’t got your point 2. Seems English expression. So quite difficult to understand it if English is not first language.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GumNaam

TheTallGuy said:


> Brother, Its your ignorance...you have to go through all of my posts..


its not my ignorance, it my burrhapa...


----------



## SIPRA

GumNaam said:


> its not my ignorance, it my burrhapa...



Ignorance resulting from old age.


----------



## GumNaam

RIWWIR said:


> Ignorance resulting from old age.


I know right they all lied when they said with age comes wisdom...LIES ALL LIES!!!


----------



## SIPRA

GumNaam said:


> I know right they all lied when they said with age comes wisdom...LIES ALL LIES!!!



With age, every thing goes down.


----------



## GumNaam

RIWWIR said:


> With age, every thing goes down.


no that's not true. with age, my cholesterol went up.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SIPRA

GumNaam said:


> no that's not true. with age, my cholesterol went up.



Yes. I am wrong. My blood pressure has gone up.


----------



## GumNaam

RIWWIR said:


> Yes. I am wrong. My blood pressure has gone up.



khoob guzray gi jab mil baithain gey budhay do!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Psychic

> 1. On Feb 26th - India crossed LoC and then IB and bombed Balakot. For close to a month and a half you didn't give journalists free access. Just showed them what you wanted them to see. I guess the crows were stopping them. You did not even try to stop the Indians.
> 
> 2. On Feb 27th - you at most crossed the LoC, and were chased away before you could do any damage. The guy chasing entered 4 km into your territory and you shot him down. And you promptly returned him - after both Modi and Trump hinted that the deal had been sealed for his return.


Bharti claim: Camp completely destroyed.
*Then satellite photos emerge showing structure intact.*
Bharti somersault: Camp not destroyed, we made holes in the roof and bombs blasted inside.
(LOL at making holes in tin shed roofs with 1000lb projectiles------making holes in roofs is for hardened shelters with several feet thick concrete not civilian structures)
*Then satellite photos emerge showing no holes in roofs*
_The image is virtually unchanged from an April 2018 satellite photo of the facility. There are *no discernible holes in the roofs of buildings*, no signs of scorching, blown-out walls, displaced trees around the madrasa or other signs of an aerial attack._
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...standing-at-indian-bombing-site-idUSKCN1QN00V
Bharti claim: It was terror training camp
*Reality: It was just another madrassa*
A professional force deliberatekly targeted boarding school full of kids and Indians gloat about it. Exposition of their lack of character, morality and humanity.



> You did not even try to stop the Indians.


Bacha bell baja ke bhag jaye tou uncle ka kya qasur?
Aglay din uncle pehlay se gate par thay
Aur bachay ki spanking kar di uncle ne


> On Feb 27th - you at most crossed the LoC, and were chased away before you could do any damage


Any more excuses for the flop show of IAF on 27th
So, we couldn't do any damage; you did lots of damage by striking at one civilian structure and failing at that too

Our response was disproportionate to begin with.
Strikes at four military targets.
Doing damage was not intended objective, delivering message was. And message has been delivered to those who have been making funny statements ever since


> The guy chasing entered 4 km into your territory and you shot him down. The guy chasing entered 4 km into your territory and you shot him down.


So what?

Mirage2000s bugging out by making excuse of radar jams.
SU30s busy dodging AMRAAMs and claiming they were outranged and outgunned
Then "mini AWACS" also bugs out on excuse of "low fuel".
And these were official Indian claims
Bhagwan apko aisi hazaron "successful engagments" naseeb karay


Final scorecard:-
1xmig21 destroyed
1xMi-17 destroyed
4xmilitary targets bombed
vs
not a single fck given



> after both Modi and Trump hinted that the deal had been sealed for his returnafter both Modi and Trump hinted that the deal had been sealed for his return


Believe whatever the fck you want to believe. We also returned Nikicheta, Modi and trump might have had a role in his return as well.

A lone pilot means nothing after being paraded infront of cameras.

Despite randi rona by Bharat, we still have their monkey and he ain't going anywhere.


Jackdaws said:


> Now you cry for the "freedom" of an erstwhile free country which you invaded in the first place. RIP Logic.


State of Patialas forces were in Kashmir before 27th Oct.
Classic case of intervention before accession.

Neither Pakistan nor British had any control over tribals----Many of whoom were from Sawat and Dir which were not yet part of Pakistan.
And they went to support Poonch rebellion against Maharaja-----who had unleashed his forces on locals. GB was liberated entirely by locals.

In any case, for India, it was nothing more than Nehru's obsession with making his ancestral land part of India through scheming----Gurdaspur is a testament to that fact. Resulted in Jammu genocide in which Maharaja, Nehru, Menon and Kak played active role.

UNSC accepted all of Pakistan's points when Sir Zafrullah busted all Indian myths in hours long speech. No need to bust them again.


Jackdaws said:


> A tribunal decided the matter after a skirmish and it was accepted. You didn't get as much as you wanted - but you must be used to that.


And what did the tribunal give you? Some lullopop to suck on?

We got lots of area------lot more than what was conquered.


Jackdaws said:


> The supplementary report was released - the main report has never been released.


Irrelevant

Commission report doesn't toe Indian narrative to begin with.

Casualties are as low as 26,000 as per the "gospel of truth".
Means Indian state has been carrying out false propaganda against Pakistan for mass murders and mass rapes.

You either accept it or accept Indian narrative because both can't be true at once.
But but but but evil Pakistanis.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------

