# US Politics



## RabzonKhan

*US Presidential Elections 2016 News and Views* 

The next presidential election takes place on Nov 8, 2016.

Who Is Running for President

*Democrats*







*Hillary Clinton*

Campaign Site: HillaryClinton.com

Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton (born October 26, 1947) is a former United States Secretary of State, U.S. Senator, and First Lady of the United States. From 2009 to 2013, she was the 67th Secretary of State, serving under President Barack Obama. She previously represented New York in the U.S. Senate (2001 to 2009). Before that, as the wife of President Bill Clinton, she was First Lady from 1993 to 2001. In the 2008 election, Clinton was a leading candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination.

*





Bernie Sanders*

Campaign Site: BernieSanders.com

Bernard “Bernie” Sanders (born September 8, 1941) is an American politician and the junior United States Senator from Vermont. Before serving in the Senate, he represented Vermont’s at-large congressional district in the United States House of Representatives and served as mayor of Burlington, the largest city in Vermont. Sanders is a self-described democratic socialist, and has praised Scandinavian-style social democracy.
Sanders runs for office as an independent but caucuses with the Democratic Party and is counted as a Democrat for purposes of committee assignments. He was the only independent member of the House during most of his service and is the longest-serving independent in U.S. Congressional history.

In an interview with The Nation on March 6, 2014, Sanders stated that he is “prepared to run for President of the United States” in 2016.



*Republicans*

*





Jeb Bush*

PAC Site: Right to Rise PAC

John Ellis “Jeb” Bush (born February 11, 1953) served as the 43rd Governor of Florida from 1999 to 2007. He is the second son of former President George H. W. Bush and former First Lady Barbara Bush, and is the younger brother of former President George W. Bush. Jeb Bush is the only Republican to serve two full four-year terms as Governor of Florida. Bush grew up in Houston, Texas. He attended the University of Texas, where he earned a degree in Latin American affairs. Following his father’s successful run for Vice President in 1980, he moved to Florida. In 1986, Bush was named Florida’s Secretary of Commerce, a position he held until resigning in 1988 to help his father’s successful campaign for the Presidency.

In 1994, Bush made his first run for office, narrowly losing the election for governor by less than two percentage points to the incumbent Lawton Chiles. Bush ran again in 1998 and beat Lieutenant Governor Buddy MacKay with 55 percent of the vote. He ran for reelection in 2002, and won with 56 percent, to become Florida’s first two-term Republican Governor. During his eight years as governor, Bush was credited with initiating improvements in the environment, as well as reforming the education system. He was also responsible for ending the Florida high speed rail initiative.

Bush is frequently mentioned as a possible candidate for president in 2016.







*Rand Paul*

Campaign Site: RandPaul.com

A graduate of the Duke University School of Medicine, Paul began practicing ophthalmology in Bowling Green, Kentucky in 1993 and established his own clinic in December 2007. He became active in politics and founded Kentucky Taxpayers United in 1994, of which he is still chairman. He first received national attention in 2008 when making political speeches on behalf of his father, who was campaigning for the Republican Party’s nomination for president. In 2010, Paul ran for the U.S. Senate seat being vacated by retiring Senator Jim Bunning of Kentucky, defeating Kentucky Secretary of State Trey Grayson in the Republican primary. He subsequently defeated the Democratic nominee, Kentucky Attorney General Jack Conway, in the general election.







*Marco Rubio*

Campaign Site: MarcoRubio.com

Marco Antonio Rubio (born May 28, 1971) is the junior United States Senator from Florida, serving since January 2011. A member of the Republican Party, he previously served as Speaker of the Florida House of Representatives (2007–2009).
A Cuban American native of Miami, Florida, Rubio is a graduate of the University of Florida and the University of Miami Law School. In the late 1990s, he served as a City Commissioner for West Miami and was elected to the Florida House of Representatives in 2000, representing the 111th House district. He was elected Speaker in November 2006.

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## RabzonKhan

Continue:

*Republicans






Mike Huckabee
*
Official Site: MikeHuckabee.com

Michael Dale “Mike” Huckabee (born August 24, 1955) is an American politician who served as the 44th Governor of Arkansas (1996–2007). He was a candidate in the 2008 United States Republican presidential primaries, winning the 2008 Iowa Republican caucuses and finishing second in delegate count and third in both popular vote and number of states won (behind both John McCain and Mitt Romney).
Huckabee currently hosts the eponymous Fox News Channel talk show Huckabee. From April 2012 through December 2013, he hosted a daily radio program, The Mike Huckabee Show, on weekday afternoons for Cumulus Media Networks. Huckabee is the author of several best-selling books, an ordained Southern Baptist minister, musician and a public speaker. He is also an ABC Radio political commentator.







*Ted Cruz*

Campaign Site: TedCruz.org

Rafael Edward “Ted” Cruz (born December 22, 1970) is the junior United States Senator from Texas. Elected in 2012, he is the first Cuban American or Latino to hold the office of US Senator from Texas. Cruz is a member of the Republican Party. He served as Solicitor General of Texas from 2003 to May 2008, after being appointed by Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott. Between 1999 and 2003, Cruz served as the director of the Office of Policy Planning at the Federal Trade Commission, an Associate Deputy Attorney General at the United States Department of Justice, and as Domestic Policy Advisor to U.S. President George W. Bush on the 2000 Bush-Cheney campaign. Cruz was also an Adjunct Professor of Law at the University of Texas School of Law in Austin, where he taught U.S. Supreme Court litigation, from 2004 to 2009.







*Ben Carson*

Campaign Site: BenCarson.com

Benjamin Solomon “Ben” Carson Sr. (born September 18, 1951) is an American author and retired neurosurgeon. He is credited with being the first surgeon to successfully separate conjoined twins joined at the head. In 2008 he was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President George W. Bush. 
After delivering a widely publicized speech at the 2013 National Prayer Breakfast, he became a popular conservative figure in political media for his views on social and political issues, spurring talk of his becoming a Republican candidate for the 2016 presidential election.







*Carly Fiorina*

Campaign Site: CarlyForPresident.com

Carly Fiorina (born Cara Carleton Sneed; September 6, 1954) is an American former business executive and was the Republican nominee for the United States Senate from California in 2010. Fiorina served as chief executive officer of Hewlett-Packard from 1999 to 2005 and previously was an executive at AT&T and its equipment and technology spinoff, Lucent.
Fiorina was considered one of the most powerful women in business during her tenure at Lucent and Hewlett-Packard. While she was chief executive at HP, the company weathered the collapse of the dot-com bubble, although the stock lost half of its value throughout her tenure. In 2002, the company completed a contentious merger with rival computer company Compaq, which made HP the world’s largest personal computer manufacturer. In 2005, Fiorina was forced to resign as chief executive officer and chairman of HP following “differences [with the board of directors] about how to execute HP’s strategy.” She has frequently been ranked as one of the worst CEOs of all time.

Fiorina served as an advisor to Republican John McCain’s 2008 presidential campaign. She was the Republican nominee for the United States Senate from California in 2010, losing to incumbent Democratic Senator Barbara







*Bobby Jindal*

Campaign Site: BobbyJindal.com

Piyush “Bobby” Jindal (born June 10, 1971) is an American politician who is the 55th and current Governor of Louisiana and the Vice Chairman of the Republican Governors Association.
Jindal was born in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, to immigrants from India. Prior to entering politics, Jindal studied for a Bachelor of Science in biology and public policy at Brown University from 1988 to 1991 and then a Master of Letters in political science from New College, Oxford, as a Rhodes Scholar. He worked for McKinsey & Company and interned for Representative Jim McCrery of Louisiana. In 1996, Governor Murphy Foster appointed Jindal Secretary of the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals, and in 1999 he was appointed President of the University of Louisiana System. In 2001, Jindal was appointed as the principal adviser to Tommy Thompson, the United States Secretary of Health and Human Services by President George W. Bush.

He first ran for governor in 2003 and won a plurality in the nonpartisan blanket primary but lost in the general election to Democrat Kathleen Blanco. He then won a seat in the United States House of Representatives in the 2004 elections. The second Indian American in Congress, he was re-elected in 2006. He ran for Governor again in 2007 and secured an outright majority in the first round of balloting. He was re-elected in a landslide in 2011.








*Rick Santorum*

Campaign Site: RickSantorum.com

Richard John “Rick” Santorum (born May 10, 1958) is an American attorney and Republican Party politician. He served as a United States Senator representing Pennsylvania (1995-2007) and was the Senate’s third-ranking Republican (2001-07). He ran as a candidate for the 2012 Republican Party presidential nomination, finishing second to the eventual Republican nominee Mitt Romney.
Born in Virginia, Santorum was raised primarily in Butler, Pennsylvania. He obtained an undergraduate degree from Pennsylvania State University, an M.B.A. from the University of Pittsburgh, and a J.D. from the Dickinson School of Law (now part of Penn State). Santorum worked as an attorney at Kirkpatrick & Lockhart, where he met Karen Garver. They married in 1990, and have seven living children (one child died shortly after birth). Santorum was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives to represent Pennsylvania’s 18th congressional district in 1990 and later became a member of a group dubbed the “Gang of Seven”.

Santorum was elected as a United States Senator for Pennsylvania in 1994. He served two terms until losing his re-election bid in 2006. A devout, practicing Catholic, Santorum is a social conservative who opposes same-sex marriage and artificial birth control. While serving as a senator, Santorum was the author of what came to be known as the Santorum Amendment, which promoted the teaching of intelligent design. In 2005, Santorum introduced the Workplace Religious Freedom Act along with Senator John Kerry.

In the years following his departure from the Senate, Santorum worked as a consultant, private-practice lawyer, and news contributor. On June 6, 2011 Santorum announced his run for the Republican nomination in the 2012 U.S. presidential election. Upon announcing his campaign suspension on April 10, 2012, he had won 11 primaries and caucuses and received nearly 4 million votes. Santorum officially endorsed Mitt Romney on May 7, 2012.


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## RabzonKhan

Continue:

*Republicans*





*Scott Walker*

Scott Kevin Walker (born November 2, 1967) is an American Republican legislator and politician who is the 45th Governor of Wisconsin. He was first elected Governor in 2010 and was sworn in on January 3, 2011. Walker was re-elected to a second term on November 4, 2014, which will expire on January 3, 2019.
Born in Colorado Springs, Colorado, Walker attended Marquette University in Milwaukee. He started his career working for IBM before gaining a marketing job with the American Red Cross. At age 22, Walker lost a run for the Wisconsin State Assembly in a Milwaukee district in 1990, which is the only competitive election (aside from a failed run for student president at Marquette University) which Walker has lost in his career to date. He won his next bid for the Assembly after moving to a more conservative district in Wauwatosa, and served four more terms in the Assembly (1993-2002). In 2002, after the resignation of Tom Ament as Executive of Milwaukee County, Walker won in a special election to fill the seat, winning the first of three terms serving as County Executive in Milwaukee County from 2002 to 2010.

In his first run for Governor in 2006 he dropped out before the Republican primaries. Walker again ran for the governorship in 2010, winning in a three-person race in the Republican primary. He faced Democratic nominee, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, in the general election, where Walker won with 52% of the vote.

After being sworn into office in 2011, Walker introduced a controversial budget repair plan which limited many collective bargaining rights for most public employees. The legislation made more than $1 billion in cuts to the state’s biennial education budget and $500 million in cuts from the state’s biennial Medicaid budget. The budget cuts led to significant protests at the Wisconsin State Capitol and an effort to recall Walker. In the subsequent special election in June 2012, Walker again faced Barrett in Wisconsin’s only gubernatorial recall election. Walker defeated him for a second time, obtaining more votes than he had in the original race, with 53% of the vote. Walker is the only governor in the U.S. to date to win a gubernatorial recall election.

*




Chris Christie*


Christopher James “Chris” Christie (born September 6, 1962) is the 55th Governor of New Jersey and a leading member of the Republican Party.
Born in Newark, Christie became interested in politics at an early age, and volunteered for the gubernatorial campaign of Republican Tom Kean in 1977. A 1984 graduate of the University of Delaware, he earned a J.D. at Seton Hall University School of Law. Christie joined a Cranford law firm in 1987, where he became a partner in 1993, and continued practicing until 2002. He was elected as a county legislator in Morris County, serving from 1995 to 1998, during which time he generally pushed for lower taxes and lower spending. By 2002, Christie had campaigned for Presidents George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush; the latter appointed him as United States Attorney for New Jersey, a position he held from 2002 to 2008. In that position, he emphasized prosecutions of political corruption, and also obtained convictions for sexual slavery, arms trafficking, racketeering by gangs, as well as other federal crimes.

In January 2009, Christie declared his candidacy for Governor of New Jersey. He won the Republican primary, and defeated incumbent Governor Jon Corzine in the election that November. In 2013, he won re-election as Governor, defeating Democrat Barbara Buono by a margin of over 22%. He was sworn in to a second term as governor on January 21, 2014. On November 21, 2013, Christie was elected Chairman of the Republican Governors Association, succeeding Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal.

Christie was seen as a potential candidate in the 2012 presidential election, and though not running, he was the keynote speaker at the 2012 Republican National Convention. He is viewed as a potential presidential candidate in 2016. Despite two separate investigations having found no evidence of Christie having prior knowledge of or directing the controversial closure of highway toll plaza lanes at Fort Lee, the investigations of the scandal, still ongoing, have posed a challenge for Christie, who denies wrongdoing.

*





Rick Perry*


James Richard “Rick” Perry (born March 4, 1950) is an American politician who is the 47th and current Governor of Texas. A Republican, he was elected Lieutenant Governor of Texas in 1998 and assumed the governorship in December 2000 when then-governor George W. Bush resigned to become President of the United States. Perry is the longest serving governor in Texas state history. As a result, he is the only governor in modern Texas history to have appointed at least one person to every eligible state office, board, or commission position (as well as to several elected offices to which the governor can appoint someone to fill an unexpired term, such as six of the nine current members of the Texas Supreme Court).
Perry was elected to full gubernatorial terms in 2002, 2006 and 2010 and is the fourth Texas governor (after Allan Shivers, Price Daniel, and John Connally) to serve three terms. With a tenure in office to date of 13 years, 335 days, Perry is the second longest serving current U.S. governor – after Terry Branstad of Iowa. Perry served as chairman of the Republican Governors Association in 2008 (succeeding Sonny Perdue of Georgia) and again in 2011.

Perry won the Texas 2010 Republican gubernatorial primary election, defeating U.S. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison and former Wharton County Republican Party Chairwoman and businesswoman Debra Medina. In the 2010 Texas gubernatorial election, Perry won a third term by defeating former Houston mayor Bill White and Kathie Glass.

On August 13, 2011, Perry announced in South Carolina that he was running for the Republican nomination for President of the United States in the 2012 presidential election. Perry suspended his campaign in January 2012 and eventually endorsed Republican nominee Mitt Romney.

On July 8, 2013, Perry announced that he would not seek re-election to his fourth term in the 2014 election, planning to retire instead. Unnamed sources said to be close to Perry told the National Review that Perry may focus on another White House bid for 2016.

On August 15, 2014, Perry was indicted by a grand jury on felony charges for abuse of power. He was accused of coercing a Democratic District Attorney who had been convicted of drunk driving to resign by threatening to veto funding for state public corruption prosecutors. The indictment received some support and also wide criticism from all sides of the political spectrum, and editorial criticism from major US newspapers.

*





Lindsey Graham*


Lindsey Olin Graham (born July 9, 1955) is an American politician and member of the Republican Party who serves as the senior United States Senator from South Carolina, in office since 2003.
Born in Central, South Carolina, Graham graduated from the University of South Carolina in 1977. He received his Juris Doctor from the University of South Carolina School of Law in 1981. He served in the United States Air Force from 1982 to 1988 and served as a reservist in the South Carolina Air National Guard, attaining the rank of Colonel. He worked as a lawyer in private practice before he was elected to the South Carolina House of Representatives in 1992, serving one term from 1993 to 1995. He then served in the United States House of Representatives, representing South Carolina’s 3rd congressional district from 1995 to 2003. He was elected to four terms, receiving at least 60% of the vote each time.

In 2002, Graham ran for the U.S. Senate after eight-term Republican incumbent Strom Thurmond announced his retirement. Graham won the primary unopposed and defeated Democratic opponent Alex Sanders in the general election. Graham was re-elected to a second term in 2008, defeating Bob Conley. He won a third term in 2014, defeating Democrat Brad Hutto and Independent Thomas Ravenel.

Graham is a leading foreign policy hawk and interventionist. He is known for his willingness to be bipartisan and work with Democrats on issues like climate change, tax reform and immigration reform and his belief that judicial nominees should not be opposed solely on their philosophical positions. He is also a critic of the Tea Party movement, arguing for a more inclusive Republican Party.

*





John Kasich*


John Richard Kasich (born May 13, 1952) is the 69th Governor of Ohio, in office since 2011. A member of the Republican Party, he previously served as a member of the United States House of Representatives, representing Ohio’s 12th congressional district from 1983 to 2001. He was a commentator on Fox News Channel, hosting Heartland with John Kasich (2001-2007); he also worked as an investment banker, as managing director of Lehman Brothers’s Columbus, Ohio office (until the firm collapsed in 2008).
In the 2010 Ohio gubernatorial election, Kasich defeated Democratic incumbent Ted Strickland, receiving 49% of the vote to his opponent’s 47%.

In the 2014 Ohio Gubernatorial Elections, Kasich defeated Cuyahoga county official Ed FitzGerald (Democrat) by a landslide with Kasich winning 64% of the vote and FitzGerald winning only 33%; Green Party candidate Anita Rios won the other 3%.


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## RabzonKhan

*The Mechanics of Presidential Candidates

Stage 1: The Pregame Warm Up
*
The process begins unofficially exactly one day after the 2012 presidential election when observers, analysts and pundits cast a wide and generous net over the whole country to kick start the elimination process. *Potential 2016 candidates are determined through a multitude of factors, including, but not limited to, party affiliation, elected position (current and past), policy stances, level of success, age, temperament, personal attributes and family.* The names are floated to encourage, solicit and provoke reactions from the candidates themselves, general media and other interested parties. On our part, the list of potential 2016 candidates below represents the “catch” from our metaphorical net. Our criteria for inclusion are not constrained by major party affiliation, popularity or financial strength. We aim to provide a platform for every properly invested American to present their case, and candidacy.

*Stage 2: Informal Feelers, leaks and exploratory committees *

The potential 2016 presidential candidates then start testing out the waters to gauge the sentiments on the ground, and of the press and most crucially, the donor base. *For established candidates with funds to spare, a more formal setup is formed, or, as they are more commonly known, exploratory committees. *

*Stage 3: Announcement of Candidacy *

Once a candidate decides on running for president in 2016, a formal announcement is made. The announcement will be a highly polished media affair, and typically held at a historically significant or personally memorable location. The candidate is also required to register his candidacy with the Federal Election Commission. For 2016 independent and third party candidates, the journey usually begins here. At this stage, we will be eliminating the potential candidates from the list and naturally, focus exclusively on the declared candidates.

*Stage 4: 2016 Primaries and Caucuses *

The selection of 2016 nominees for president by political parties is not bound by the Constitution or any federal regulations. However, the process involved has evolved naturally over the last century, more so since the advent of national conventions of political parties. The delegates of these conventions will ultimately decide the party’s nominee for president. The selections of the delegates, meanwhile, are done through state organized primaries and caucuses.


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## RabzonKhan

OpEdOpinion

*Hillary Clinton, the center-left's champion
*
Updated June 15, 2015 12:11 PM
By STEPHEN STROMBERG, The Washington Post 





Presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton kicking off her official campaign from Franklin D. Roosevelt Four Freedoms Park on Roosevelt Island in NYC June 13, 2015. Photo Credit: J. Conrad Williams Jr.

*Hillary Clinton ended much of the suspense about what she's running on, delivering her first full campaign-style stump speech on New York's Roosevelt Island on Saturday. The result was a platform of workmanlike liberal policy that neither mimics her husband's agenda nor fully dignifies the populists pushing the Democratic Party from the country's ideological governing space. America's center-left has a champion.*

Clothed in rhetoric condemning economic and social inequality, Clinton's address acknowledged the power of the Obama coalition of young and minority voters, striking a very different note from the triangulated social conservatism of her husband's presidency. She promised to help pretty much everyone except Republican presidential candidates and hedge-fund managers, arguing that the country needs an "inclusive economy" supported by an "inclusive society."

She proposed laws barring discrimination against gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people, backed universal preschool and child care, *supported a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants with clean records, *demanded easier access to the polls and endorsed a constitutional amendment re-imposing restrictions on political spending.

*In one of the best lines in her speech, Clinton mocked the cowardice of Republicans who dodge reporters' questions on climate change. "They'll say, 'I'm not a scientist,'" she said. "Well, then why don't they start listening to those who are?" *In one of the worst lines in her speech, Clinton again punted on the Trans-Pacific Partnership, bowing to progressives' current anti-trade hysteria. "Advances in technology and the rise of global trade have created whole new areas of economic activity and opened new markets for our exports," she said, "but they have also displaced jobs and undercut wages for millions of Americans."

But, thankfully, Clinton also avoided some of the worst populist excesses of the Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren wing of the Democratic Party. *Crucially, Clinton emphasized the importance of economic growth, innovation and efficient government, not rigid regulatory and tax policies or unaffordable expansions of entitlements. "The middle class needs more growth and more fairness," she said. "Growth and fairness go together. For lasting prosperity, you can't have one without the other."*

*Clinton appears to be aligning herself with Democrats who stress the importance of economic competitiveness and flexibility in enabling the country to keep up with global competition and advance the standard of living.*

It remains to be seen whether Clinton can harness the energy of progressives without buying more fully into their extravagances. But for those seeking care and substance, her speech was a pretty good opening move.

_
Stromberg is a member of The Washington Post's editorial page staff._


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## RabzonKhan

*Hillary Clinton outlines plan to tighten U.S. gun laws

By Heidi Przybyla*
10/5/2015





Hillary Clinton participates in a town hall in Hollis, N.H., on Oct. 5, 2015. (NBC News’ ‘Today’ show)

*Hillary Clinton offered a plan to stop individuals from purchasing guns over the Internet and at gun shows without background checks — and says she’ll act on it if Congress won’t.

The 2016 Democratic presidential front-runner outlined a series of steps to update the Brady Law that established background checks for all weapons purchases. The law, which took effect in 1994, was enacted before the Internet became a force in U.S. commerce.*

An estimated 20% to 40% of all gun purchases in the U.S. occur without background checks because of loopholes that allow unlicensed online transfers as well as exchanges between anonymous strangers, including felons, at gun shows, according to a fact sheet provided by the campaign. Polls show broad public support for background checks.

Her proposal comes in the wake of a mass shooting last week at an Oregon community college.

*“Enough,” Clinton said at a town hall in Hollis, N.H., broadcast on the Today show Monday. “We need universal background checks. We know that they will work,” she said. “I’m determined to do something about it,” Clinton said.*

She outlined her plans in a state with high levels of gun ownership and emphasized that her focus is not law-abiding gun owners. Clinton said that even conservative Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia has said that the constitutional right to bear arms does not mean there can’t be restraints on gun ownership.

*The most significant part of Clinton’s plan may be her vow to use executive action to update background check laws to account for Internet and gun show sales. The likelihood that Congress will pass new gun laws has been very low ever since Congress failed to act on a bipartisan plan to boost background checks in the aftermath of the December 2012 shootings that killed 20 schoolchildren and six educators at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn. Republicans also control both chambers of Congress and are unlikely to initiate votes on new gun laws.*

*Clinton’s plan would also close the “Charleston Loophole’’ that allows a gun sale to proceed without a background check if the check isn’t complete within three days. The alleged shooter who killed nine people at a Charleston church had a federal criminal record but was able to buy a gun anyway.*

Other components of the plan include repealing laws that prevent victims of gun violence from holding negligent manufacturers and dealers accountable; providing more funding to increase inspections of gun stores and a plan to revoke the licenses of dealers that knowingly sell to traffickers and straw purchasers.

She would also press for legislation to prohibit all domestic abusers from buying and possessing guns. Current law does not cover people in dating relationships or convicted stalkers. Her plan did not call for a reinstatement of the federal assault weapons ban that her husband, former president Bill Clinton, signed into law.


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## RabzonKhan

"There is a Chauncey Gardner-like quality to Carson. He speaks softly, smiles a lot and lulls his audience into the belief he possess great insights and wisdom." I had been telling my friends exactly the same thing.
*


The most unfit GOP candidate isn’t Trump

By Jennifer Rubin October 9, 2015

Donald Trump wants to round up 11 million people in two years for deportation. He approves of Russia’s incursion into Syria. He has a tax plan that adds at least $10 trillion to the debt. And with all that, he is not the most ignorant or unfit GOP presidential contender. That distinction goes to Ben Carson.*

Consider this from yesterday:

*Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer that the Holocaust would have been “greatly diminished” had Jewish people in Europe been armed with guns.*

“I think the likelihood of Hitler being able to accomplish his goals would have been greatly diminished if the people had been armed,” Carson said. “I’m telling you there is a reason these dictatorial people take guns first.”

This follows his jaw-dropping response to the Oregon mass shooting: “I would say, hey guys, everybody attack him. He may shoot me but he can’t get us all!”

The Anti-Defamation League roundly condemned his remarks. (“The small number of personal firearms available to Germany’s Jews in 1938 could in no way have stopped the totalitarian power of the Nazi German state.”)

Carson’s ignorance is not limited to the Nazis, although he continues his appalling comparisons of trends and people he dislikes to the fascist, genocidal regime.

*He does not, it seems, grasp the difference between the debt limit and the budget.*

*He thinks “diplomacy” was an alternative to a military response to the slaughter of nearly 3,000 people on Sept, 11, 2001. (New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie retorted that “these people were out to kill us.”)*

*He insisted that a Muslim should not be president, only begrudgingly backpedaling to say only those intent on imposing sharia law shouldn’t hold office.*

And there was this telling exchange from the first debate, which largely escaped notice:

*MEGYN KELLY: You’ve suggested that the Baltic States are not a part of NATO, just months ago you were unfamiliar with the major political parties and government in Israel, and domestically, you thought Alan Greenspan had been treasury secretary instead of federal reserve chair.

Aren’t these basic mistakes, and don’t they raise legitimate questions about whether you are ready to be president?*

CARSON: Well, I could take issue with — with all of those things, but we don’t have time.

But I will say, we have a debate here tonight, and we will have an opportunity to explore those areas, and I’m looking very much forward to demonstrating that, in fact, the thing that is probably most important is having a brain, and to be able to figure things out and learn things very rapidly.

(Wait. He thinks the Baltic states are _not_ part of NATO?)

Conservatives have a dangerous habit of excusing ignorance or offensive comments so long as they come from someone attacking liberal elites. One does not need to elevate ignoramuses to cultlike status simply because they also happen to attack the media or liberal dogma. In doing so, Republicans wind up getting behind crank candidates and losing elections to mediocre candidates. (Anyone recall the “I-am-not-a-witch” Christine O’Donnell?)

*There is a Chauncey Gardner-like quality to Carson. He speaks softly, smiles a lot and lulls his audience into the belief he possess great insights and wisdom. He is an esteemed neurosurgeon and a lovely dinner speaker. He is, however, entirely unfit for the presidency, seemingly oblivious to basic historical facts, constitutional concepts and world events. Surely conservative Republicans, especially some in the right-wing media who have fawned over him, should have figured this out by now.*

Jennifer Rubin writes the Right Turn blog for The Post, offering reported opinion from a conservative perspective.


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## RabzonKhan

*Obama Tells ‘60 Minutes’ Hillary Clinton Made Email ‘Mistake’

By MICHAEL D. SHEAROCT. 11, 2015

WASHINGTON — *President Obama* on Sunday called *Hillary Rodham Clinton*’s use of a private email server “a mistake,” but said it had not endangered national security and had been “ginned-up” into a political attack by Republicans eager to keep her from being president.*

Mr. Obama made the comments during an interview on CBS’s “60 Minutes” program in which he also defended his policy in Syria during a lengthy, contentious exchange with Steve Kroft, a veteran correspondent.

Mrs. Clinton’s use of the email server during her tenure as secretary of state has become the centerpiece of Republican-led investigations into the 2012 attacks in Benghazi, Libya, that killed four Americans. She is certain to face questions about the emails during Tuesday’s Democratic presidential debate and later this month when she is set to appear before a House committee.

In the interview, which was taped Tuesday and broadcast Sunday evening, Mr. Obama called those questions legitimate and said — without directing the comments specifically at Mrs. Clinton — that public officials in high office should know better.

“As a general proposition, when we’re in these offices, we have to be more sensitive and stay as far away from the line as possible when it comes to how we handle information, how we handle our own personal data,” Mr. Obama said. “And, you know, she made a mistake. She has acknowledged it.”
The president said Mrs. Clinton “could have handled the original decision better” and might have been quicker to disclose work-related emails that had been kept on a private server outside government control.

*Mr. Obama said her possession of the email server “is not a situation in which America’s national security was endangered.” He declined to say whether the email controversy was “not that big a deal,” but he chided Mrs. Clinton’s critics for their single-minded focus on the issue.

“The fact that for the last three months this is all that’s been spoken about is an indication that we’re in presidential political season,” he said.*

On Syria, Mr. Obama acknowledged the failure of his $500 million mission to “train and equip” as many as 5,000 fighters in the battle against the Islamic State. The president said he had long been skeptical that the program could create an effective “proxy army,” but tried it anyway in an effort to confront what he called a “difficult problem for the entire world community.”
Mr. Kroft repeatedly challenged the president on his policy in Syria and at one point complained that Mr. Obama was “filibustering” with long answers. Mr. Obama at times appeared exasperated by Mr. Kroft’s questions, once responding: “If you ask me big, open-ended questions, expect big, open-ended answers.”
The president accused critics of expecting better results in Syria after just a year of American intervention, noting that Afghanistan still needs attention over 13 years after the United States sent its military there. He said the situation in Syria would not be resolved by American troops.

“Resolving the underlying crisis is going to be something that requires ultimately the key players there to recognize that there has to be a transition to new government,” he said. “And in the absence of that, it’s not going to work.”
Mr. Obama angrily rejected the idea that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia is challenging American leadership by using fighter jets and missiles in Syria.
“If you think that running your economy into the ground and having to send troops in, in order to prop up your only ally, is leadership, then we’ve got a different definition of leadership,” Mr. Obama said. He added later: “The fact that they had to do this is not an indication of strength.”
Mr. Putin’s aggressive moves into Syria, in particular strikes by warplanes and missiles, in the last several weeks appeared to take the United States government by surprise. But Mr. Obama suggested in the interview that officials had some warning of the Russian plans.

“We had pretty good intelligence,” he said in response to a question about whether Mr. Putin told the president about the military moves when the two met at the United Nations last month.
“We knew that he was planning to provide the military assistance that Assad was needing,” Mr. Obama continued, referring to the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, “because they were nervous about a potential imminent collapse of the regime.”


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## mike jones

who would win?


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## RabzonKhan

mike jones said:


> who would win?


No one knows the answer to that question, too far out to tell.

That being said, right now, on the Democrat side, Hillary Clinton is the undisputed frontrunner, though things can change if VPJoe Biden enters the race.

On the Republican side, Ben Carson, Marco Rubio, and Carly Fiorina are the frontrunners. Even though, Donald Trump is leading in all polls so far, but his chances of getting Republican nomination is quite bleak.

But one should watch out for Jeb Bush (he is supported by the Republican establishment) at present he is doing quite badly on the polls but financially he is quite strong.

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## RabzonKhan

The first democratic debate between Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders and the three other guys
(Senator Jim Webb, Martin O’ Mally and Lincoln Chafee).

It is widely believed that Hillary Clinton won the debate.

Highlights of the debate that I find interesting:

*CLINTON:* I'm a progressive. But I'm a progressive who likes to get things done. And I know... (I think that was a jab at Bernie)


*SANDERS:* Millions of Americans are working longer hours for lower wages, and yet almost all of the new income and wealth being created is going to the top one percent. (I fully agree with that statement)


*SANDERS:* Today, the scientific community is virtually unanimous: climate change is real, it is caused by human activity, and we have a moral responsibility to transform our energy system away from fossil fuel to energy efficiency and sustainable energy and leave this planet a habitable planet for our children and our grandchildren.


*CLINTON:* I've put forward specific plans about how we're going to create more good-paying jobs: by investing in infrastructure and clean energy, by making it possible once again to invest in science and research, and taking the opportunity posed by climate change to grow our economy.


*CLINTON:* And then we have to figure out how we're going to make the tax system a fairer one. Right now, the wealthy pay too little and the middle class pays too much.


*CLINTON:* But we are not Denmark. I love Denmark. We are the United States of America. And it's our job to rein in the excesses of capitalism so that it doesn't run amok and doesn't cause the kind of inequities we're seeing in our economic system.


*WEBB:* So we do need background checks. We need to keep the people who should not have guns away from them. But we have to respect the tradition in this country of people who want to defend themselves and their family from violence.


*CLINTON:* And, I think it's important too that the United States make it very clear to Putin that it's not acceptable for him to be in Syria creating more chaos, bombing people on behalf of Assad, and we can't do that if we don't take more of a leadership position, which is what I'm advocating.


*SANDERS:* United States does not get involved in another quagmire like we did in Iraq, the worst foreign policy blunder in the history of this country. (On the mark).


*WEBB:* To the unelected, authoritarian government of China: You do not own the South China Sea. You do not have the right to conduct cyber warfare against tens of millions of American citizens.


*SANDERS:* Let me say -- let me say something that may not be great politics. But I think the secretary is right, and that is that the American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails. (He was responding to Hillary Clinton's email scandal.")


*CHAFEE: *Absolutely. We have to repair American credibility after we told the world that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, which he didn't. So there's an issue of American credibility out there.


*SANDERS: *Congress does not regulate Wall Street. Wall Street regulates Congress.


*SANDERS:* Well, let me tell you, Donald Trump and his billionaire friends under my policies are going to pay a hell of a lot more in taxes today -- taxes in the future than they're paying today.


*CLINTON:* Now, I revere my late mother, and she gave me a lot of good advice. But one of the best pieces of advice she gave me was, you know, the issue is not whether or not you get knocked down. It's whether you get back up.

America's been knocked down. That Great Recession, 9 million people lost their jobs, 5 million lost their homes, $13 trillion in wealth disappeared. And although we've made progress, we're standing but not running the way America needs to.


*CLINTON:* My mission as president will be to raise incomes for hard-working middle-class families and to make sure that we get back to the basic bargain I was raised with: If you work hard and you do your part, you should be able to get ahead and stay ahead.


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## RabzonKhan

2016 Republican Presidential Candidates:







*Who is the wealthiest 2016 presidential candidate. (Source)*

*Donald Trump: *$4 billion.

*Carly Fiorina*: $59 million.

*Hillary Clinton:* somewhere between $11 million and $53 million.

*Mike Huckabee: *between $7 million and $29 million.

*Ben Carson:* between $8.9 million and $27 million.

*Jeb Bush*: worth between $19 and $22 million.

*John Kasich*: between $9 million and $22 million.

*Bobby Jindal: *$3.79 million and $11.3 million.

*Ted Cruz: *between $2.4 and $4.7 million.

*Jim Webb: *$4,580,095.

*Rick Santorum: *between $880,000 and $1.9 million.

*Chris Christie: *$1.5 million.

*Rand Paul: *$1.3 million.

*Lindsey Graham: *$1.02 million.

*Bernie Sanders: *between $194,026 and $741,030.

*Marco Rubio:* $443,000.

*Martin O'Malley: *$250,000.


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## Audio

Where's Trump???? And his Slovenian wife?


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## RabzonKhan

Audio said:


> Where's Trump???? And his Slovenian wife?


I started the thread on May 9, 2015 at that time Donald Trump was not in the race he announced his presidential run on June 16, 2015.


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## mike jones

This would be interesting to watch


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## RabzonKhan

Meet Republican Party's front-runner, you won't be disappointed.







*Ridiculously Offensive Donald Trump Quotes*

"Look at that face! Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president I mean, she's a woman, and I'm not s'posedta say bad things, but really, folks, come on. Are we serious?" –Donald Trump on Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina

"You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes.
Blood coming out of her wherever." –Donald Trump, insulting Fox News anchor Megyn Kelly over questions she asked during the first Republican primary debate

"He’s not a war hero. He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren’t captured." –Donald Trump on John McCain

"The man that wrote the second book ... didn't write the first book. The difference was like chicken salad and chicken s**t." -Donald Trump, on President Obama's books

"I think the only difference between me and the other candidates is that I'm more honest and my women are more beautiful." –Donald Trump, while teasing a presidential run in 2000

"I'll tell you, it's Big Business. If there is one word to describe Atlantic City, it's Big Business. Or two words – Big Business." –Donald Trump

"The beauty of me is that I'm very rich." –Donald Trump

“You know, it really doesn’t matter what the media write as long as you’ve got a young and beautiful piece of ***”

“The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make US manufacturing non-competitive”


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## RabzonKhan

*4 candidates have dropped out of the race.*

Texas Gov. Rick Perry (Republican)

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (Republican) suspended his campaign on Sept. 21, citing an urgent need to "clear the field" to help defeat GOP front-runner Donald Trump.

Jim Webb (Democrat)

Lincoln Chafee (Democrat)

VP Joe Biden has decided against running for president.

With Joe Biden out of the race and her 11 hours Benghazi testimony, Hillary Clinton is leading with 41 point in the state of Iowa (Monmouth University poll)
Bernie Sanders is second with 24 points.

On the Republican front, Ben Carson is leading Donald Trump nationally.


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## RabzonKhan

Third Republican debate





*Speaking Time for Each Candidate*





Here are some of the highlights of the debate that I find interesting:


TRUMP: We can do a wall. We're going to have a big, fat beautiful door right in the middle of the wall.We're going to have people come in, but they're coming in legally. And Mexico's going to pay for the wall because Mexico --I love the Mexican people; I respect the Mexican leaders--but the leaders are much sharper, smarter and more cunning than our leaders.

KASICH: I went into Ohio where we had an $8 billion hole and now we have a $2 billion surplus. We're up 347,000 jobs.

When I was in Washington, I fought to get the budget balanced. I was the architect. It was the first time we did it since man walked on the moon. We cut taxes and we had a $5 trillion projected surplus when I left.

BUSH: But Marco, when you signed up for this, this was a six-year term, and you should be showing up to work.I mean, literally, the Senate -- what is it, like a French work week? You get, like, three days where you have to show up? You can campaign, or just resign and let someone else take the job. There are a lot of people living paycheck to paycheck in Florida as well, they're looking for a senator that will fight for them each and every day.

CRUZ: You know, let me say something at the outset. The questions that have been asked so far in this debate illustrate why the American people don't trust the media.

(APPLAUSE) This is not a cage match. And, you look at the questions -- "Donald Trump, are you a comic-book villain?" "Ben Carson, can you do math?" "John Kasich, will you insult two people over here?" "Marco Rubio, why don't you resign?" "Jeb Bush, why have your numbers fallen?"

How about talking about the substantive issues the people care about?

BUSH: And my record was one of cutting taxes each and every year. You don't have to guess about it, because I actually have a record. $19 billion of tax cuts, 1.3 million jobs created.We were one of two states to go to AAA bond rating, and our government spending was far less than the spending in people's income.

CARSON: Super PACs are a disaster. They're a scam. They cause dishonesty. And you had better get rid of them, because they are causing a lot of bad decisions to be made by some very good people.

RUBIO: OK.You know, the Democrats who have the ultimate super PAC, it's called the mainstream media.(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: But I feel that the gun-free zones and, you know, when you say that, that's target practice for the sickos and for the mentally ill. That's target. They look around for gun-free zones. You know, we could give you another example -- the Marines, the Army, these wonderful six soldiers that were killed. Two of them were among the most highly decorated -- they weren't allowed on a military base to have guns.

FIORINA: No, the Federal Government should not play a larger role.

Look, every time the Federal Government gets engaged in something it gets worse. 

CHRISTIE: Carl, are we really talking about getting government involved in fantasy football?

(LAUGHTER)

We have -- wait a second, we have $19 trillion in debt. We have people out of work. We have ISIS and al Qaeda attacking us. And we're talking about fantasy football? Can we stop?


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## saadee

Audio said:


> Where's Trump???? And his Slovenian wife?


Lmao. You just hit the sensitive nerve.


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## Audio

saadee said:


> Lmao. You just hit the sensitive nerve.



Why?


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## saadee

Audio said:


> Why?


 Do you Donald Trump? Do you think he should be the next president? The man is simply a nuts.



Audio said:


> Why?


 He wants to deport 11 million people immigrants though his own wife is Slovenian as you mentioned. Will he deport his wife first before deporting others?


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## Audio

saadee said:


> He wants to deport 11 million people immigrants though his own wife is Slovenian as you mentioned. Will he deport his wife first before deporting others?



I see. Well, they are married....


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## gambit

saadee said:


> He wants to deport 11 million people immigrants though his own wife is Slovenian as you mentioned. Will he deport his wife first before deporting others?


That is *ILLEGAL* immigrants. Do you have a problem with that ?


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## saadee

gambit said:


> That is *ILLEGAL* immigrants. Do you have a problem with that ?


Have you ever heard his speeches. How about professionalism?



Audio said:


> I see. Well, they are married....


The man got ego and his big mouth ain't gonna help. We are looking for a professional.


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## Audio

saadee said:


> The man got ego and his big mouth ain't gonna help. We are looking for a professional.



Community organizer good enough? Won 2 elections already. Pro.

Don't make me laugh with "_We are looking for a professional_". 
Dear lord....you're looking for a messiah but you'll get (like you got in the past) a dynastic family rule. "_We are looking for a professional_" hahahahaha, good one.  You (personally) are looking for someone to fill your little ears with stuff you want to hear "professionally".

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## RabzonKhan

*







What does Hillary Clinton believe? Where the candidate stands on 11 issues

BY RACHEL WELLFORD April 10, 2015 
*
Hillary Rodham Clinton owns a singular resume: first lady, senator and secretary of state. She is also a lawyer who worked on the Watergate investigation and a four-decade veteran of campaigns. Add two-time presidential contender. Here is a look at where Clinton stands on ten key issues.

*Education:* Against No Child Left Behind. Position unknown on Common Core.

In her 2008 campaign, Clinton decried President George W. Bush’s trademark education program, calling No Child Left Behind an unfunded mandate and pledging to end it if elected. During a recent campaign stop in Iowa, Clinton indicated support for Iowa’s version of Common Core, but did not specifically endorse the national education standards.

*Immigration:* President should waive deportation for some immigrants. Give undocumented residents a path to legal status.


Clinton supports comprehensive immigration reform, including a path to legal status for undocumented immigrants. She voted for the 2007 plan endorsed by then President George W. Bushwhich ultimately died in the Senate.

Late last year, Clinton spoke in favor of President Obama’s executive actions to waive deportation for some immigrants illegally in the country.

*Marijuana:* “Wait and see” on overall legalization.

Clinton told CNN last year she wants to see more studies and research, especially in states which have legalized marijuana, before forming her opinion on the federal level.

*NSA:* More transparency. Find the balance between security, privacy.

Clinton believes the National Security Agency needs to be more transparent. In an interview in February, she also said that the nation needs to “draw a line” and generally find balance between security needs and privacy.

In 2014, when asked about Edward Snowden and his leak of classified security documents, Clinton stressed her concern for security threats and appreciation of intelligence she’d seen while in the Senate. She also questioned Snowden’s decison to flee the country and take refuge in Russia.

*Obamacare*: Keep it. Strengthen it. Tout it.

The former Obama cabinet member strongly supports the Affordable Care Act, telling NewsHour’s Gwen Ifill last year that Democrats should tout the health care law and run on its success, rather than running away from it. Clinton has said the law should be improved upon where possible. Clinton led a White House task force on health care in 1993. That plan included a mandate that all employers cover health care for their workers, but it did not get any traction in Congress.

*Social Issues:* Abortion should be legal. So should same-sex marriage.

Clinton is a staunch supporter of legal access to abortions. As secretary of state, Clintontold a Congressional hearing that, “Family planning is an important part of women’s health and reproductive health includes access to abortion.”

On gay marriage her stance has “evolved.” Clinton now supports same-sex marriage. But she has acknowledged that this was not always her viewpoint. Her conversation on the topic with NPR’s Terry Gross last year made headlines. Clinton recently blasted Indiana’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act, tweeting that it was “sad.”

*Taxes:* Consider closing loopholes and cutting middle class taxes.

Clinton aides tell the New York Times that she is considering proposals to close corporate tax loopholes and cut middle class taxes as part of her campaign. In the past, she has indicated concern over concentrations of wealth by higher incomes, including at a speech last year where she said, “extreme inequality has corrupted other societies.”

She may propose to keep capital gains taxes below 20 percent, as she did during aprimary debate in 2008. In 2008, Clinton proposed suspending the federal gas tax for the summer as consumers faced rising prices at the pump.

*Israel:* Work toward a two-state solution. Do not necessarily freeze settlement building.

Clinton recently affirmed her commitment to a two-state solution in the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. She said that the U.S. needs to return to a more constructive footing in the region, following tensions between President Obama and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. She has differed with the president on the issue. Clinton also has said she would not have pushed to freeze Israeli settlement building in 2009.

*Iran:* Support framework for nuclear deal. Continue diplomacy efforts and some sanctions.

Clinton supports the current Iran framework and has praised President Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry for their diplomatic efforts. As secretary of state, she backed sharp sanctions against Iran, but has recently said additional sanctions, proposed by Congress, would be detrimental to striking a deal.

During the 2008 campaign, Clinton criticized Obama’s suggestion that the U.S. could negotiate with Iran without precondition.

*Islamic State: *No boots on the ground. Use regional troops.

Clinton believes the U.S. should use air support to fight the Islamic State, that American and other Western troops should not be fighting on the ground. Instead she argues that regional forces, especially the Iraqis, should provide ground troops.

*Clinton wrote in her memoir, “Hard Choices,” that she pushed the Obama adminstration to become more involved in Syria earlier. During an August interview with The Atlantic, Clinton said the failure to help Syrian rebels directly led to the rise of the Islamic State.*

*TPP:* Last week, Clinton said she did not support the Trans-Pacific Partnership as it currently stands. The deal – the largest trade agreement in history – cuts trade barriers, protects multinational corporations’ intellectual properties and sets labor and environmental standards.


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## RabzonKhan

*Ben Carson Fabricated Violent Juvenile Past, CNN Investigation Suggests
*
Jordan Chariton
November 5, 2015

*Ben Carson has made his transformation from a violent boy to soft-spoken, responsible adult a cornerstone of his campaign, but a CNNinvestigation found no evidence to back up Carson’s claims of being a problem child.

On the campaign trail, the former neurosurgeon has recounted being an angry juvenile in his native Detroit — stabbing, throwing rocks at people, hurling bricks and beating others with baseball bats.*

But through interviews with nine former classmates and friends, CNN was unable to verify any incidents supporting those claims.

Also Read: Ben Carson Topples Donald Trump Nationally

One former classmate told the network: “I don’t know nothing about that… it would have been all over the whole school.” Another classmate told CNN, “I personally do not have knowledge of those incidents… I wondered, ‘When did that happen?'”

*A former friend of Carson said if he was as big a hothead as he described, it wouldn’t be a secret.”He got through his day trying not to be noticed… I remember him having a pocket saver. He had thick glasses. He was skinny and unremarkable.”*

Also Read: Ben Carson's Campaign Surges After Controversial Muslim, Holocaust Comments

“CNN was unable to independently confirm any of the incidents, which Carson said occurred when he was a juvenile,” CNN reporters Scott Glover and Maeve Reston wrote in their online account.

*Carson’s campaign declined to provide the network with any corroborating evidence of his violent past, calling the CNN investigation a “witch hunt.”*

“Why would anyone cooperate with your obvious witch hunt?” campaign adviser Armstrong Williams wrote in an email last Friday. “No comment and moving on…… Happy Halloween!!!!!”

Also Read: Ben Carson's Former Patient Blasts Surgeon for Ruining Her Life: 'He's a Liar'

Carson is leading the RealClearPolitics average of national polls for the first time, narrowly edging Donald Trump 24.8 to to 24.6.


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## RabzonKhan

*Ben Carson and the Tale of Redemption

By Kevin Drum
Nov. 7, 2015

*
For those of you who may have missed it, the _Wall Street Journal_ decided to check out another Ben Carson story yesterday. Here's the story as recounted in _Gifted Hands_, about Carson's time as a student at Yale:


Ben is broke. Finds ten-dollar bill on sidewalk. Thank you, Lord!
A year later, Ben is broke again. Looks for ten-dollar bill, doesn't find one.
Ben gets notice that all the final exams in Perceptions 301 were accidentally lit on fire. He goes in for the retest.
The new test is really, really hard. A girl near Ben tells her classmate they should leave. "We can say we didn't read the notice."
Everyone starts leaving. Ben is conflicted. "I was tempted to walk out, but I had read the notice, and I couldn't lie and say I hadn't."
Eventually Ben is the only one left. The professor comes back in with a _Yale Daily News_ photographer. The whole thing was a hoax, she said. "We wanted to see who was the most honest student in the class. And that's you."
Ben concludes the story: "The professor then did something even better. She handed me a ten-dollar bill."
End scene.
And now for a couple of comments that I've seen this morning. First, Atrios remarks that the story is simply not believable. And that's true. I assume that's why the_Journal_ decided to check it out. It sounded completely phony, and they concluded that it was, in fact, phony.

Second, Adam Serwer tweets that most of Carson's deceptions and embellishments are unnecessary. His personal story is great without them. And generally speaking, that's true. But in this case it's not.

*Here's the thing: the beating heart of Carson's personal story is about his redemption by God. So he says he had a violent temper as a kid, and then became a new man after praying in a bathroom one day. In fact, God turned him around so thoroughly that West Point offered him a full scholarship. He went to Yale instead, where the Lord took care of his finances when he was in desperate straits. And as a bonus, it was because of his Christian inability to tell a lie.*

*Are these embellishments unnecessary? Sure. But Carson knows his audience. Serious evangelicals really, really want to hear a story about sin and redemption. That requires two things. First, Carson needs to have been a bad kid. Second, redemption needs to have truly turned his life around. He was already a student smart enough to get into Yale, so he needs more.*

That's where these stories come in. He needs to exaggerate how violent he was when he was young. And after he finds God, he needs to exaggerate how great everything turned out. This culminates in the absurd story about his psychology class. No one who's not an evangelical Christian would believe it for a second. But evangelicals hear testimonies like this all the time. They _expect_ testimonies like this, and the more improbable the better. So Carson gives them one. It's clumsy because he's not very good at inventing this kind of thing, but that doesn't matter much.

Not all of Carson's deceptions follow this pattern. But several of them do. And they were far from unnecessary. Carson needed to sell his story to evangelicals, and that required a narrative arc as formulaic as any supermarket romance novel. So he gave them one.


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## RabzonKhan

*What does Marco Rubio believe? Where the candidate stands on 10 issues*

*

*

BY[URL='http://www.pbs.org/newshour/author/geoffrey-guray/'] GEOFFREY GURAY [/URL]
April 13, 2015

He’s the son of Cuban immigrants. A law school student who got his political start as a congressional intern and rose to become Florida’s youngest-ever state House speaker. And his favorite hip hop songs come from N.W.A, Eminem and Tupac Shakur. But where does Marco Rubio stand on the issues? Here is a look at 10.

*The budget:* Balance it. Prioritize defense.
Rubio supports balancing the federal budget within 10 years and has long advocated freezing spending for everything but defense at 2008 levels. This year, the Florida senator proposed raising defense spending. He voted for the Senate Republican plan, which balances the budget and cuts $4.3 trillion in spending, including funds from Medicare and other programs.

*Climate change:* It is real. It is not caused by man.

In January, Rubio supported a Senate measure stating that “climate change is real and not a hoax.” On a separate vote, he opposed a measure stating that human activity contributes to changing temperatures. That reflects a consistent stance from Rubio that mankind is not having the effect on the climate that scientists portray.

*Obamacare:* Repeal it. Replace it with tax credits and fewer regulations.

Rubio has attacked the Affordable Care Act and wants to repeal it. His replacement proposal, outlined in a Fox News op-ed, calls for new tax credits to help people purchase insurance, revising health insurance regulations and reforming Medicare and Medicaid.

*The Internet: *Oppose net neutrality.

Last month, Rubio outlined strong opposition to “net neutrality”, or the new government policy that Internet providers should not charge different prices for different types of content. Rubio argues this gives the government too much power over winners and losers on the Internet.

*Immigration:* Work toward reform, piece by piece.

As a Senate candidate, the Florida Republican opposed a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants who remain in the U.S. Then in 2013, Rubio joined the “Gang of Eight,” which drafted and pushed a comprehensive immigration bill through the Senate. The legislation set up criteria and a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, and increased the size of the border patrol. After it froze in the House, Rubio told reporters he had changed his approach and is now pushing for separate bills to first stop the flow of illegal immigration and then address those in the country now.

*Social issues:* The Supreme Court decision on gay marriage is the law of the land. Ban abortion after 20 weeks. Marriage is between a man and a woman.

Rubio disagreed with the Supreme Court decision legalizing same-sex unions in all fifty states but said that Americans must abide by the ruling. Personally, the Florida senator told CNN that he believes marriage is between a man and a woman. Holding a nuanced position on Indiana’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act, Rubio believes some kinds of businesses, like wedding photography, should be allowed to turn away gay customers, and others, like hotels, should not.

On abortion, Rubio co-sponsored a 2013 Senate bill to ban abortion after 20 weeks since fertilization, making exceptions for the life of the mother, rape or incest.

*Taxes:* Cut corporate taxes to 25 percent. Simplify individual brackets. Add $2,500 child tax credit.

Rubio proposes to simplify the tax code, outlining his tax reform plan in an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal.

Rates for corporations would fall to 25 percent, and they would still be able to deduct the full cost of their capital expenses. Individuals would be subject to just two rates: 15 percent for those earning under $75,000, and 35 percent for those earning above that. Capital gains taxes would be erased and families would be eligible for a new $2,500-per-child tax credit.

*Cuba: *Block the Obama administration’s “normalization”

Rubio has vowed to block President Obama’s effort to work with the Castro-led government of Cuba and establish more normalized ties with its leadership. He argues the policy shift comes “at the Cuban people’s expense.”

In March, Rubio sent a letter to Secretary of State John Kerry, urging the administration to keep Cuba on its list of state sponsors of terror.

*Iran:* Toughen sanctions. Scrap proposed nuclear deal.

A hawk on Iran, Rubio told radio host Hugh Hewitt in February that the only acceptable deal with Iran is one that totally ends its enrichment program.

He was one of the 47 Senate Republicans who signed an open letter to Iran’s leaders, warning about potential Congressional opposition to the deal. Rubio’s position: Increase sanctions on Iran until its government “completely gives up its nuclear ambitions.”

*Islamic State:* Increase the president’s power to combat.

Rubio wants to increase the president’s power to attack the Islamic State group and has strongly opposed the Obama administration’s war powers request, which would set a three-year time limit and rule out “enduring offensive ground combat operations.” In addition, Rubio told Fox News he would like a permanent U.S. presence in Iraq to counteract Islamic State and other opposition forces.


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/marco-rubio-believe-candidate-stands-10-issues/


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## Stephen Cohen

gambit said:


> That is *ILLEGAL* immigrants. Do you have a problem with that ?



Last time the Immigrants went on a Nationwide STRIKE 
It set in motion Immigration reform which is YET to be completed 

2006 United States immigration reform protests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## gambit

Stephen Cohen said:


> Last time the Immigrants went on a Nationwide STRIKE
> It set in motion Immigration reform which is YET to be completed
> 
> 2006 United States immigration reform protests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The top issue is immigration.

Coming into a country is a privilege, not a right. Never has been a right. It is not just about US, but about *ANY* country. It does not matter if there is a passport or visa system or not. If there is an internationally recognized border system then it is a privilege to cross any border into any country.

Below the issue of immigration is the issue and problem of the legality of access. It means if a country and its people deems it necessary to permit some and deny others access, then how is that permit executed and how to enforce said permission. No matter how flawed the US immigration process, it is still a privilege to come into the US and this is where it is convenient to make ignorant comments about the US just to insult US.

So far, no one has the courage to answer the simple issue/question: Why is it wrong for the US to have legal and illegal immigration status?

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## RabzonKhan

So far the best GOP debate.

*4th Republican GOP Debate Nov. 10th 2015




*


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## bsruzm

I had to post that:





Hilary seems wining?

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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

*Why some conservatives say Trump talk is fascist
*
By MJ Lee, CNN Politics Reporter 
November 25, 2015 

*(CNN)Conservative warnings about Donald Trump have grown increasingly somber. At first he was just an entertainer; then he became a worrisome distraction, and soon, there was fear that he would permanently scar the reputation of the Republican Party.*

But it was after Trump started calling for stronger surveillance of Muslim-Americans in the aftermath of the Paris terrorist attacks that a handful of conservatives ventured to call Trump's rhetoric something much more dangerous: fascism.

Since launching his campaign this summer, the billionaire real estate magnate has regularly deployed inflammatory rhetoric about immigrants -- particularly regarding Latinos -- and repeatedly raised the alarm about foreigners entering the country. That has escalated following the series of shooting rampages and explosions in Paris this month allegedly perpetrated by ISIS and amid a nationaldebate over accepting Syrian refugees.

Most striking has been Trump's aim at Muslims in the United States. He's been widely denounced for claiming that people in New Jersey — a state with "large Arab populations," he said — cheered after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. That, coupled with his seeming endorsement of a national registry to track Muslims in the country, has sparked a new level of condemnation from conservatives already on edge about Trump's endurance.

*"Trump is a fascist. And that's not a term I use loosely or often. But he's earned it," tweeted Max Boot, a conservative fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations who is advising Marco Rubio.*

*"Forced federal registration of US citizens, based on religious identity, is fascism. Period. Nothing else to call it," Jeb Bush national security adviser John Noonan wrote on Twitter.*

Conservative Iowa radio host Steve Deace, who has endorsed Ted Cruz, also used the "F" word last week: "If Obama proposed the same religion registry as Trump every conservative in the country would call it what it is -- creeping fascism."

Even one GOP presidential hopeful -- albeit a little-known candidate barely registering in the polls -- has used this language. In an interview with Newsmax TV on Friday, former Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore said Trump's immigration policies, including the idea of creating a "deportation force" to remove undocumented immigrants from the country, amounted to "fascist talk."

Opinion: A Donald Trump presidency? Yikes

The fresh accusations of fascist behavior are extraordinarily charged -- the term is often equated with Nazism. The use of such a loaded word marks one more step in the evolution of the establishment's view of Trump, from a political clown to something much more malevolent and dangerous.

Donald Trump vs. the Republican establishment

And it also reflects an increasingly visible and acute level of frustration and disbelief about Trump within the GOP, as Republicans view Trump's candidacy as an explosive mixture of economic populism with strongman personality politics. While it's unclear whether Trump is motivated by any coherent political philosophy, it's hard to recall another recent presidential candidate who has campaigned so openly on solving problems by sheer personal will.

Jindal: Trump is a madman who must be stopped

The Trump campaign did not respond to a request for comment. Boot and Deace couldn't be reached for comment, and a Bush spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment on behalf of Noonan.

Academics who study fascism say that while Trump seems to have an authoritarian sensibility, his behavior doesn't meet the dictionary definition of fascism. The term describes an overtly anti-democratic movement that suppresses all opposition as a way to fulfill political goals, and a fascist leader is a dictator that wishes to exercise complete control, even by condoning violence.

Scholars of fascists like Benito Mussolini in Italy and Adolf Hitler in Germany (none of Trump's conservative critics have compared him to either man) say, however, that Trump does display some of the key characteristics of a fascist. His comments about a national registry for Muslim-Americans, together with his propensity to stir up anti-immigrant and xenophobic sentiments among his supporters, amount to a perception of hostility toward ethnic and religious minority groups.

Obama on Trump's immigration plan: 'That's not who we are as Americans'

"The most recent comment he said about creating a national registry of all Muslims -- that's very dangerous," said Steve Ross, a professor of history and scholar of fascism at the University of Southern California.

Ross, who proposes the label "right-wing bully" for Trump, said he can certainly understand why the question has come up. "You're talking about an American government that would move towards the persecution of citizens and people living within its own country," he said. "That is why people are saying, 'Gee, if you follow this through, it's fascism.' "

Opinion: Donald Trump's horrifying words about Muslims

"Fascism sometimes becomes an attribute to describe someone that is intolerant or totalitarian or even racist," said Federico Finchelstein, an expert on fascism at the New School who said Trump is better described a populist. "When dealing with an important part of the nation such as Hispanics, I think he definitely fits those categories."

When a reporter asked Trump last week how a national database of Muslims would be different from the persecution of Jews in Nazi Germany, Trump responded: "You tell me."

Opinion: Donald Trump's bizarre statements

Historians say they see other characteristics of fascism in Trump in addition to his propensity for racial and ethnic stereotyping. Among them: nativist undertones, attempts to control the media; and even condoning violence against his critics.

At a Trump campaign rally in Birmingham, Alabama, a black protester was physically attacked by a handful of Trump fans in the crowd. Video captured by CNN shows the man being shoved to the ground, punched and at one point even kicked. The next day, Trump drew fierce backlash when he said that perhaps "he should have been roughed up."

The sentiment was then echoed by Trump's senior counsel Michael Cohen. "Every now and then an agitator deserves it," Cohen said on CNN's "New Day" Tuesday morning.

Ross said the incident illustrates behavior that is only steps removed from fascism.

Opinion: Donald Trump, media manipulator in chief

"We had the same thing happening in Germany in the 1920s with people being roughed up by the Brownshirts and they deserved it because they were Jews and Marxists and radicals and dissidents and gypsies — that was what Hitler was saying," Ross said. "I'm not saying Trump is Hitler, but the logic of condoning violence against those who oppose you -- you can imagine, a man who would condone it as a candidate -- what would he do as an official president?"

Trump's interactions with the media — in particular, his attempts to shut out reporters critical of his campaign —have also shown authoritarian tendencies.

Donald Trump bars Univision reporters because of lawsuit

The businessman regularly lashes out at reporters who give unfavorable coverage, and his campaign has denied credentials to journalists as retribution. Trump has more than once boycotted appearing on Fox News, in protest of what he has deemed unfair treatment.

"What they expect from the media is praise. This is another element in this character and in other leaders of this type, which is that they are extremely messianic and narcissistic," said Finchelstein. "Whatever they see, they see as a personal attack against them."

History professor Robert Paxton of Columbia University, who has studied the rise and spread of fascism, said he would not call Trump a fascist. But Paxton also said he can understand why some people might be inclined to point out similarities between Trump and fascist leaders.

"He's good at making astonishing speeches that make people sit up and take notice. So there's some of that manipulation of public emotions that is visible with Trump," Paxton said. "Hitler and Mussolini -- no one had ever seen public rallies like the meetings they'd have. People were absolutely mesmerized."


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## RabzonKhan

The Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump is seen in the video mocking disabled New York times reporter. I can’t believe he is a Republican front-runner, this man is absolutely disgusting.


----------



## RabzonKhan

*
GOP wrestles with prospect of Trump-led ticket
*
Democrats smell opportunity as Republicans in House and Senate races consider the once-unthinkable prospect of the billionaire businessman as party nominee.

By Ben Schreckinger and Kevin Robillard 12/03/15

*MANASSAS, Va. — Among signs waved by Latino, labor and Black Lives Matter protesters outside of Donald Trump’s rally here Wednesday night was one targeting a local congresswoman: “Trump & Comstock: Respect Women,” read a placard hoisted by an organizer for NARAL Pro-Choice Virginia.*

The Trump phenomenon is increasingly spilling over from the Republican presidential primary it has already upended and into House and Senate races, where Democrats smell opportunity and Republicans are beginning to ponder the once-unthinkable prospect of a 2016 GOP ticket led by the billionaire businessman as nominee.

On Wednesday, a memo surfaced from the National Republican Senatorial Committee that envisioned Trump as the party nominee and advised its candidates to embrace some of Trump’s themes and traits while denouncing some of his “wacky” and politically radioactive comments. The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, meanwhile, is stepping up its efforts to tie Republican House candidates to the current front-runner for their party’s nomination. That includes instructing the committee’s opposition researchers to look for comments made by Republican candidates about immigrants, women and other groups that say that Trump’s rhetoric and can be used to paint them with the same brush, according to a DCCC official.

*“Even when House Republicans do not mimic his hateful rhetoric directly, the DCCC advises campaigns to draw comparisons to House Republican incumbents and Donald Trump because they are part of the same party, with shared principles,” the official said.*

The move to Trumpify GOP candidates is already underway. In September, a state representative and prominent Democratic Latino surrogate in Colorado authored an op-ed about an incumbent Republican congressman titled, “Mike Coffman paved the way for anti-Immigrant Donald Trump.” In it, State Rep. Joe Salazar charges that “Coffman is alarmingly similar to Trump.”

Keisy Chavez, 44, the NARAL organizer carrying the sign tying Trump to Republican Rep. Barbara Comstock, whose district lies across the street from the Prince William County Fairgrounds where the businessman held his rally on Wednesday night, said she was inspired by the idea of linking Trump’s newfound pro-life leanings and Comstock’s support for requiring transvaginal ultrasounds for women seeking abortions.

She also compared Comstock’s rhetoric on immigration to Trump’s. “They just make comments without taking any precautions,” said Chavez, whose family is from Peru. “She compared us to FedEx packages.”

Last year, speaking about illegal immigration and border security, Comstock said, “FedEx can track packages coming in here all of the time. We can track people who are coming into the country and we can do that right.”

The Trump and Comstock campaigns did not respond to requests for comment.

The Trump effect stands to leave an even bigger imprint on the Senate landscape, where many of the most competitive races next year will take place in presidential battleground states.

“The NRSC memo on Donald Trump shows just how big a problem he’s created for Senate Republicans trying to keep their majority — they know Trump could ruin their already slim chances at reelection, but now they are being told they should strive to be more like him,” DSCC Communications Director Sadie Weiner said. “But embrace him or not, vulnerable Senate Republicans belong to the party of Trump, and no memo can change the fact that his offensive statements and dangerous policies have become the Republican standard. At the end of the day, Republican Senate candidates will be left to answer for Trump whether they like it or not.”

In the spring and summer, when many believed Trump was a passing craze, numerous Republican candidates spoke favorably of the billionaire — quotes Democrats will be eager to resurrect in television advertising and messaging, regardless of whether he wins the nomination or flames out.

New Hampshire Sen. Kelly Ayotte held a private, one-on-one meeting with Trump in April. A few months later, Trump said he would consider Ayotte as a vice-presidential pick, calling her “tremendous.” Ohio Sen. Rob Portman also said he talked to Trump about trade issues, an area where “we tend to agree a lot.” Wisconsin Sen. Ron Johnson has compared himself to Trump, and said Trump reminded him of “what’s appealing about my candidacy here in Wisconsin.” Trump endorsed Rep. Ron DeSantis, who’s running for the GOP Senate nod in Florida, when he first ran for Congress and donated to his campaign two years later. A spokesman for Rep. David Jolly, another Florida GOP Senate prospect, said the congressman was “honored” when Trump copied a health care policy proposal from Jolly.

Democrats have already begun adjusting their rhetoric with Trump in mind. After Illinois Sen. Mark Kirk released an ad attacking Democratic Rep. Tammy Duckworth for supporting allowing Syrian refugees into the United States, a Duckworth spokesman fired back with a statement linking the moderate Republican to the polarizing businessman.

“Like Donald Trump, he’s appealing to base xenophobia, sowing fear of refugees in the midst of one of the largest humanitarian crises of our time,” Duckworth spokesman Matt McGrath said. “His ad is false, and he knows it, but worse yet, it appeals exclusively to fear and the lowest common denominator. He should be ashamed. Illinois deserves better.”

The NRSC memo, written by Ward Baker, the committee's executive director, seeks to identify the traits GOP Senate candidates should emulate — and the aspects of Trump’s political persona that could imperil their campaigns.


*“Trump has risen because voters see him as authentic, independent, direct, firm, — and believe he can’t be bought. These are the same character traits our candidates should be advancing in 2016,” Baker writes. “That’s Trump lesson #1.”

At the same time, Baker warns: “We need not be tied to him so closely that we have to engage in permanent cleanup or distancing maneuvers” the next time Trump insults women or immigrants.”*

Following the key portion of Baker’s advice — embracing Trump’s stance as honest-speaking outsider — will be easier for some candidates than others. Johnson, a millionaire businessman who self-funded his 2010 run, could adopt much of Trump’s posture. But Portman, who has raised more than $11 million for his Senate bid and has been in Washington since 1993, may have trouble recasting himself as an outsider.

One Republican candidate on the 2016 ballot has already positioned himself as an anti-Trump. Arizona Sen. John McCain, facing a challenge from Democratic Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick, has been in multiple scraps with Trump over immigration, McCain’s war service and other matters. McCain has also been frank about the potential risk with Trump as the party nominee.

“Of course, I worry,” McCain said Wednesday morning at a Christian Science Monitor breakfast. “All of us have to worry about the viability of the top of the ticket.”

_Theodoric Meyer contributed to this report._


----------



## RabzonKhan

*






Protests disrupt Trump at ritzy Manhattan fundraiser*
By BEN SCHRECKINGER 12/11/15

NEW YORK — Multiple waves of protest disrupted Donald Trump’s speech at a private fundraiser for Pennsylvania Republicans at the upscale Plaza Hotel on Friday, as fallout from the businessman’s call to suspend the entrance of Muslims into the United States spreads.
While hundreds of protesters and curious tourists mingled outside the hotel, several burst into the closed room upstairs where hundreds of Pennsylvania Republicans had paid $1,000-$2,500 a plate for at a state party fundraiser featuring Trump.
After a scuffle in the room, which interrupted Trump’s speech and upended some furnishings, security pushed the protesters, who carried a banner reading, “Islamophobia + Arabophobia are violence,” down a staircase to the ground floor.
There, protesters and police continued their scuffle. One protester fell to the floor twice and as the group was pushed out of the building along with at least two reporters who were caught in the fray.
*Back upstairs Jordan Wouk, a New York Democrat, along with his wife and two other protesters who had obtained tickets to the event, stood up and started a separate disturbance by reciting a revised version of German pastor Martin Niemoller’s famous poem about the rise of the Nazi Party, which in one common version begins, “First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a socialist.” The protesters recited the first few lines of their version, which began “First they came for the Muslims,” before being ejected by security.*
As they were being removed, Wouk heard a third protest begin as two women at the event broke out in song.
Inside the room, where few members of Pennsylvania’s Republican donor class count themselves Trump supporters, the sporadic protests worked to the businessman’s advantage. “The protesters actually united the crowd,” said a Republican operative who declined to provide his name. “Because when you have an outside force come in, it gives you something to rally around.”


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## RabzonKhan

*It’s Cruz, not Trump, who looks more like favorite to win GOP nomination*

By Chris Cillizza December 13 2015

The Iowa caucuses are seven weeks away. Donald Trump is still the Republican front-runner. Sen. Marco Rubio is, for now, the establishment’s best (only?) hope. And Sen. Ted Cruz is the guy who looks best positioned to win.

Yes, you heard that right.

Cruz (R-Tex.), as of today, has the most direct route to the Republican presidential nomination — assuming that the past history of GOP nomination fights works as a broad predictor of where the 2016 race is headed.

Let me elaborate.

*1. Cruz is positioned as the most conservative candidate in the race. Although Trump gets all the attention for his over-the-top statements, Cruz has staked out a position on the far right on virtually every major hot-button issue, including immigration, Obamacare, national security and the fight against the Islamic State militant group. And, tonally, Cruz comes across as aggressively and unapologetically conservative — a less controversial and more electable version of real estate magnate Trump.*

"Republican presidential candidate Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) says he does not agree with fellow candidate Donald Trump's idea to ban Muslims from entering U.S., but says he is uninterested in criticizing the frontrunner. (Reuters)"

A Washington Post-ABC News November poll showed that Cruz’s numbers are in the stratosphere among voters who identify themselves as “very” conservative; 69 percent had a favorable opinion of him while just 21 percent regarded him in an unfavorable light.

In a Republican primary — particularly one in which the GOP electorate is mad at everyone (including those in their own party) for an alleged lack of commitment to conservative principles — being the guy all the way on the ideological right is a very, very good thing.

*2. Cruz has raised the second-most money in the Republican race. Bet you didn’t know that! Yes, former Florida governor Jeb Bush is by far and away the fundraising leader in the race. Not only did we know that would be the case, but we also now know that it has done him, roughly, zero good. Cruz’s money, on the other hand, is — or at least was — unexpected.*

Cruz’s $65 million raised is all the more impressive because, unlike Bush, who raised the vast majority of his money with the support of his Right to Rise super PAC, Cruz has a relatively even balance between the funds raised for his campaign committee ($26.5 million) and those collected by a universe of supportive super PACs ($38 million). Having so much money in his campaign account means that Cruz will get more bang for his buck, because candidates get the lowest unit rate on TV ad buying while super PACs have to pay full freight for their airtime.

Cruz’s money is also what separates him from other candidates who secured the mantle of “most conservative candidate in the primary.” Former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee and former senator from Pennsylvania Rick Santorum won the Iowa caucuses during past campaigns — more on Cruz and Iowa below — but they were unable to capitalize on that win or sustain their support because they had so little money.

Cruz is the best-case scenario for those who want to see a movement conservative nominated: He’s _of _the conservative movement but has the fundraising ability of an establishment Republican.

*3. Cruz is the Iowa front-runner. Recent history makes clear that you need to win one of the first three states — Iowa, New Hampshire or South Carolina — to have a realistic chance of being the party’s nominee. (Remember how well former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani’s “wait until Florida” strategy worked in 2008? Thought so.)*


Cruz is emerging rapidly as the favorite in Iowa’s caucuses. Three polls released in the past five days put Cruz at the front of the pack in Iowa — including the influential (and almost always right) Des Moines Register survey, which had the senator from Texas 10 points clear of Trump.

Winning Iowa would give Cruz momentum going into New Hampshire — where he currently sits at third — and into South Carolina, a state, like Iowa, whose Republican primary electorate is quite socially conservative.

4. The calendar beyond the Big 3 favors Cruz. Winning one of the first three states is almost certainly the way a candidate makes it to March. But assuming Cruz can win Iowa (at least), the calendar starts to look very favorable to him beyond February. On March 1, what’s being referred to as the “SEC primary” takes place; Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee and Texas will vote on that first Tuesday in March.

It’s difficult to handicap how those states might play out because of how much the first three states in the past have influenced who stays in the race and what their poll numbers look like. Still, Cruz’s profile as the one true constitutional conservative in the race, coupled with his Southern roots and his fundraising, should make for an attractive package for voters going to the polls that day.

The next big primary day is two weeks later, on March 15, when Florida, Illinois, Missouri, North Carolina and Ohio vote. There are less obvious wins in those states for Cruz, but he would almost certainly run well in North Carolina and Missouri under any circumstance and might do well in the other three states depending on who else was left in the contest.

*Yes, Cruz has weaknesses — most notably that he has shown little ability to appeal beyond his conservative base and that he is far less likable than, say, Rubio, if it comes down to a one-on-one fight between the two.* Rubio of Florida is also trying to make an issue of Cruz’s immigration stance — insisting that Cruz has less of a hard line on the issue than he lets on.

But Trump (being Trump) and Rubio (what early state does he win?) also have problems. And Cruz’s strengths are considerable, particularly when you consider how these races typically play out.

Cruz has begun his ascent up the early state and national polls at just about the right time. (The race will go into deep freeze from around next week through the beginning of 2016.) His campaign is perfectly positioned to make him the last man standing. Believe it.


----------



## RabzonKhan

*Poll: Clinton beating Trump, Cruz but not Rubio*

By Jeremy Diamond, CNN
December 14, 2015

Washington (CNN)Donald Trump and Ted Cruz havesolidified their positions atop the Republican presidential pack, but their success doesn't bode well for the Republican Party's chances of reclaiming the White House, according to a new poll.

*Trump, who's topped GOP national surveys since July, takes a beating against Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton, with the former secretary of state claiming 50% to Trump's 40%, according an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll released Monday.*

READ: National poll: Trump leads; Cruz rises as Carson falls

Cruz is also behind Clinton in a general election match-up -- albeit by a slimmer margin -- as Cruz falling 3 points short of Clinton's 48% support in the poll.

Cruz, a freshman senator from Texas, has inched closer to threatening Trump's front-runner status in the latest NBC/Wall Street Journal poll on the GOP race, taking 22% to Trump's 27%.

Clinton, who continues to lead the Democratic field by 20 points according to the poll, does not fare as well in the general election when matched up against Cruz's colleague in the Senate, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio.

*Rubio, who now sits in third place in the GOP horse race with 15%, would defeat Clinton 48% to 45%, according to the NBC/Wall Street Journal poll.*

READ: First on CNN: Rubio hones pitch to "traditional voters"

Rubio performs strongly among independents against Clinton -- 44% to 37% -- and narrows the Democrat's advantage with Hispanics, clinching 36% of that demographic to Clinton's 59%.

And while Ben Carson's stock may be plummeting in the race for the Republican nomination -- he's slipped from once threatening Trump's lead position to a fourth place finish in the latest polls -- the retired neurosurgeon remains competitive with the likely Democratic nominee.

Carson faces a dead heat when matched with Clinton in a hypothetical general election, taking 47% to Clinton's 46%, according to the poll.

The results are based on a survey of 1,000 adults with a margin of error of +/- 3.36 percentage points.


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## VCheng

Rabzon said:


> Washington (CNN)Donald Trump and Ted Cruz havesolidified their positions atop the Republican presidential pack, but their success doesn't bode well for the Republican Party's chances of reclaiming the White House, according to a new poll.



Still too early in the process to pay attention to such polls.


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## RabzonKhan

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Still too early in the process to pay attention to such polls.


I know, but it’s interesting. By the way, so far, who’s your favorite candidate?


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## VCheng

Rabzon said:


> I know, but it’s interesting. By the way, so far, who’s your favorite candidate?



I have not evaluated them seriously enough. Not Trump, that is for sure.


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## RabzonKhan

*12/15/2015 CNN Republican Presidential Debate for 2016 (FULL VIDEO)*


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## RabzonKhan

*Jeb Bush: 'Donald Trump is a jerk'
*
By Ashley Killough, CNN
December 19, 2015

Contoocook, New Hampshire (CNN)While Jeb Bush has been railing against Donald Trump all week, he still had more to say on Saturday, uttering perhaps his strongest comments yet about the Republican presidential front-runner.

"Just one other thing -- I gotta get this off my chest -- Donald Trump is a jerk," Bush said to laughter and applause at his town hall here.

The outburst came after a man who said he had Asperger's Syndrome asked the former Florida governor how he would help people with disabilities as president.

Bush talked about the work he did in Florida with the state legislature to obtain more money for the state's disability system. Just when it appeared he was done with his answer, Bush started his rant against his GOP rival.

"You cannot insult your way to the presidency," he said, reiterating an attack line he's been firing at Trump. "You can't disparage women, Hispanics, disabled people. Who is he kidding?"

Trump took on widespread criticism when he appeared to mock a New York Times reporter with a disability last month, though Trump denied he was doing so.

Opinion: Finally, Bush fights back at Trump

The two candidates have been sparring all week after Bush started executing a new strategy of directly confronting Trump at the CNN debate in Las Vegas on Tuesday. They continued taking shots throughout the week, with Trump calling Bush "dumb as a rock" on Twitter Friday.

Continuing to dig in, Bush said Saturday it's "deeply discouraging" that Trump is "actually running for president and insulting people."

"We should reject that out of hand. And I hope you're going to reject it by voting for me," he told the audience. "But a guy like that should not be the front-running candidate of our great party. That is not how we win."

After more applause, Bush added: "I feel better now. I gave myself therapy there. Thank you for allowing me to do it."

Will Jeb Bush's fight with Donald Trump pay off?

Bush's jab comes the same day that the super PAC supporting his White House bid, Right to Rise, released a new TV ad hitting Trump.









*Clinton goes for the jugular after data breach*

*The front-runner prepped for a policy discussion, but after the data breach, she’s ready for a different kind of debate.*

ByAnnie Karni....*Read more*


*GOP gobsmacked by Trump's warm embrace of Putin*

*'Donald Trump is like that stray dog anybody can pet and it will follow you home,' a former Romney aide says.*

By Benjamin Oreskes.....*Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

*Will the GOP Mount a Third-Party Challenge to Trump?*

*Experts—and history—suggest it's an increasingly plausible scenario. And could end in disaster.*

By Jeff Greenfield
December 20, 2015

Donald Trump may have eased some Republican fears Tuesday night when he declared his intention to stay inside the party. But if their angst has been temporarily eased at the prospect of what he would do if he loses, they still face a far more troubling, and increasingly plausible, question.

*What happens to the party if he wins?

With Donald Trump as its standard-bearer, the GOP would suddenly be asked to rally around a candidate who has been called by his once and former primary foes “a cancer on conservatism”, “unhinged” “a drunk driver…helping the enemy.” A prominent conservative national security expert, Max Boot, has labeled him flatly “a fascist.” And the rhetoric is even stronger in private conversations I’ve had recently with Republicans of moderate and conservative stripes.*

This is not the usual rhetoric of intra-party battles, the kind of thing that gets resolved in handshakes under the convention banners. These are stake-in-the-ground positions, strongly suggesting that a Trump nomination would create a fissure within the party as deep and indivisible as any in American political history, driven both by ideology and by questions of personal character.

*Indeed, it would be a fissure so deep that, if the operatives I talked with are right, a Donald Trump running as a Republican could well face a third-party run—from the Republicans themselves.*

That threat, in turn, would leave Republican candidates, contributors, and foot soldiers with painful choices. A look at the political landscape, the election rules, and the history of intra-party insurgencies all suggests that it could turn 2016, a year that offered Republicans a reasonable chance to win the White House and with it total control of the national political apparatus, into a disaster.

***

*In Trump as nominee,* the Republican Party would face a threat to unity on several fronts. His victory would represent a triumph of an insurgent movement, or impulse, within the party. Historically speaking, this is exactly the kind of intra-party victory that guarantees political civil war.

The most striking examples of party fissure in American politics have come when a party breaks with a long pattern of accommodating different factions, and moves decisively toward one side. It has happened with the Democrats twice, both over civil rights. The party had long embraced the cause of civil rights in the North, while welcoming segregationists—and white supremacists—from across the South. In 1948, the party’s embrace of a stronger civil rights plank led Southern delegations to walk out of the convention. That year, South Carolina Governor Strom Thurmond led a National States Rights Democratic Party—the “Dixiecrats” —that won four Southern states. Had President Truman not (barely) defeated Tom Dewey in Ohio and California, the Electoral College would have been deadlocked—and the choice thrown into the House of Representatives, with Southern segregationists holding the balance of power. Twenty years later, Alabama Gov. George Wallace led a similar anti-civil rights third party movement that won five Southern states. A relatively small shift of voters in California would have deadlocked that election and thrown it to the House of Representatives... *Read more*


*CBS poll: Cruz still ahead in Iowa

Ted Cruz maintains a strong lead over Donald Trump in Iowa, according to the results of a poll released Sunday.

The Texas senator, in the CBS poll, grabbed the support of 40 percent of likely Republican caucus-goers in Iowa. Trump is at 31 percent, followed by Marco Rubio at 12 percent and Ben Carson at 6 percent. Every other GOP candidate receives 2 percent or less in the poll.... Read more


*


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## anon45

Hillary is the most likely to be the next president, and i'll vote for her.

Nightmare general election would be Trump vs Sanders.... Trump could possibly win that one.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## RabzonKhan

anon45 said:


> Hillary is the most likely to be the next president, and i'll vote for her.
> 
> Nightmare general election would be Trump vs Sanders.... Trump could possibly win that one.


I also support her, she is certainly the most qualified candidate, and it’s high time for us to elect a female president.


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## Moonlight

All I wish is trump to lose with large margin and republican to lose overall.


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## CorporateAffairs

Trump will be the GOP candidate. 
Demo certain that Hillary will get it.
Dynasty politics in USA?



Rabzon said:


> View attachment 280828
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Will the GOP Mount a Third-Party Challenge to Trump?*
> 
> *Experts—and history—suggest it's an increasingly plausible scenario. And could end in disaster.*
> 
> By Jeff Greenfield
> December 20, 2015
> 
> Donald Trump may have eased some Republican fears Tuesday night when he declared his intention to stay inside the party. But if their angst has been temporarily eased at the prospect of what he would do if he loses, they still face a far more troubling, and increasingly plausible, question.
> 
> *What happens to the party if he wins?
> 
> With Donald Trump as its standard-bearer, the GOP would suddenly be asked to rally around a candidate who has been called by his once and former primary foes “a cancer on conservatism”, “unhinged” “a drunk driver…helping the enemy.” A prominent conservative national security expert, Max Boot, has labeled him flatly “a fascist.” And the rhetoric is even stronger in private conversations I’ve had recently with Republicans of moderate and conservative stripes.*
> 
> This is not the usual rhetoric of intra-party battles, the kind of thing that gets resolved in handshakes under the convention banners. These are stake-in-the-ground positions, strongly suggesting that a Trump nomination would create a fissure within the party as deep and indivisible as any in American political history, driven both by ideology and by questions of personal character.
> 
> *Indeed, it would be a fissure so deep that, if the operatives I talked with are right, a Donald Trump running as a Republican could well face a third-party run—from the Republicans themselves.*
> 
> That threat, in turn, would leave Republican candidates, contributors, and foot soldiers with painful choices. A look at the political landscape, the election rules, and the history of intra-party insurgencies all suggests that it could turn 2016, a year that offered Republicans a reasonable chance to win the White House and with it total control of the national political apparatus, into a disaster.
> 
> ***
> 
> *In Trump as nominee,* the Republican Party would face a threat to unity on several fronts. His victory would represent a triumph of an insurgent movement, or impulse, within the party. Historically speaking, this is exactly the kind of intra-party victory that guarantees political civil war.
> 
> The most striking examples of party fissure in American politics have come when a party breaks with a long pattern of accommodating different factions, and moves decisively toward one side. It has happened with the Democrats twice, both over civil rights. The party had long embraced the cause of civil rights in the North, while welcoming segregationists—and white supremacists—from across the South. In 1948, the party’s embrace of a stronger civil rights plank led Southern delegations to walk out of the convention. That year, South Carolina Governor Strom Thurmond led a National States Rights Democratic Party—the “Dixiecrats” —that won four Southern states. Had President Truman not (barely) defeated Tom Dewey in Ohio and California, the Electoral College would have been deadlocked—and the choice thrown into the House of Representatives, with Southern segregationists holding the balance of power. Twenty years later, Alabama Gov. George Wallace led a similar anti-civil rights third party movement that won five Southern states. A relatively small shift of voters in California would have deadlocked that election and thrown it to the House of Representatives... *Read more*
> 
> 
> *CBS poll: Cruz still ahead in Iowa
> 
> Ted Cruz maintains a strong lead over Donald Trump in Iowa, according to the results of a poll released Sunday.
> 
> The Texas senator, in the CBS poll, grabbed the support of 40 percent of likely Republican caucus-goers in Iowa. Trump is at 31 percent, followed by Marco Rubio at 12 percent and Ben Carson at 6 percent. Every other GOP candidate receives 2 percent or less in the poll.... Read more
> 
> *




Democratic debates are a JOKE.
Hillary has already got it.
Just drama!


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## 21stCentury

Big chance Donald Trump will become the supreme leader of USA

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## CorporateAffairs

*Women defy media narrative, love Trump at packed Michigan rally*

VIDEO: Women defy media narrative, love Trump at packed Michigan rally | The American Mirror


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## F-22Raptor

anon45 said:


> Hillary is the most likely to be the next president, and i'll vote for her.
> 
> Nightmare general election would be Trump vs Sanders.... Trump could possibly win that one.



The only GOP candidate at this point that I think can beat Hillary in a general is Rubio.

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## Airdef95

where is Donald Trump??


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## AMDR

Cruz vs Hillary --> Cruz wins
Rubio vs Hillary --> Rubio wins
Trump vs Hillary ---> Hillary wins

and I would take Hillary over Trump any day, so its all good anyway

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## F-22Raptor

AMDR said:


> Cruz vs Hillary --> Cruz wins
> Rubio vs Hillary --> Rubio wins
> Trump vs Hillary ---> Hillary wins
> 
> and I would take Hillary over Trump any day, so its all good anyway


I think it's a 4 person race right now for President.

Hillary as the Democratic nominee.

Trump, Cruz, or Rubio as the GOP nominee. Carson seems to be fading.

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## AMDR

RealClearPolitics - 2016 Latest Polls

^This poll taken earlier today puts Cruz only 4 points behind Trump. Somebody needs to knock off Donald Trump and it might as well be Cruz. I would take any Republican or Hillary over Trump. 

Donald will get impeached in the first 3 months if he ends up getting elected.


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## CHD

PLZ elect TRUMP.And lets make America great again


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## F-22Raptor

AMDR said:


> RealClearPolitics - 2016 Latest Polls
> 
> ^This poll taken earlier today puts Cruz only 4 points behind Trump. Somebody needs to knock off Donald Trump and it might as well be Cruz. I would take any Republican or Hillary over Trump.
> 
> Donald will get impeached in the first 3 months if he ends up getting elected.



It'll be a disaster if the Republican Party nominates Trump. He'll get exposed as a fraud in one on one debates with Hillary. Personal attacks will not faze her. Lots of bluster but little substance.

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## oprih

Trump will win these unless he decided to run as independent.

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## Ice Cube




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## RabzonKhan




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## Post Colonnial

it is a shame that neither party are able to field one well rounded and qualified candidate. Hillary is incompetent, Sanders is clueless about economy, Trump is a disastrous jerk, Cruz is hot air, Rubio is under experienced, Bush is not leadership material, Christie is too niche, Kasich and Paul seem to have given up, Carlie won't get even her own vote.

Romney and Gore seem like intellectual giants in front of this crowd. If Modi was n the ballot he will win.


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## RabzonKhan

*Hillary Clinton Biography*
*Government Official, U.S. First Lady, Women's Rights Activist (1947–)*

*



*

When Hillary Clinton was elected to the U.S. Senate in 2001, she became the first American first lady to ever win a public office seat. She later became the 67th U.S. secretary of state in 2009, serving until 2013.

*Synopsis*

Hillary Clinton was born on October 26, 1947, in Chicago, Illinois, going on to earn her law degree from Yale University. She married fellow law school graduate Bill Clinton in 1975. She later served as first lady from 1993 to 2001, and then as a U.S. senator from 2001 to 2009. In early 2007, Clinton announced her plans to run for the presidency. During the 2008 Democratic primaries, she conceded the nomination when it became apparent that Barack Obama held a majority of the delegate vote. After winning the national election, Obama appointed Clinton secretary of state. She was sworn in as part of his cabinet in January 2009 and served until 2013. In the spring of 2015, she announced her plans to again run for the U.S. presidency. 

*Background*

Hillary Diane Clinton was born Hillary Diane Rodham on October 26, 1947, in Chicago, Illinois. She was raised in Park Ridge, Illinois, a picturesque suburb located 15 miles northwest of downtown Chicago.

Hillary Rodham was the eldest daughter of Hugh Rodham, a prosperous fabric store owner, and Dorothy Emma Howell Rodham; she has two younger brothers, Hugh Jr. (born 1950) and Anthony (born 1954).

As a young woman, Hillary was active in young Republican groups and campaigned for Republican presidential nominee Barry Goldwater in 1964. She was inspired to work in some form of public service after hearing a speech in Chicago by the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr., and became a Democrat in 1968.

*Education and Early Career*
Rodham attended Wellesley College, where she was active in student politics and elected senior class president before graduating in 1969. She then attended Yale Law School, where she met Bill Clinton. Graduating with honors in 1973, she went on to enroll at Yale Child Study Center, where she took courses on children and medicine and completed one post-graduate year of study.

Hillary worked at various jobs during her summers as a college student. In 1971, she first came to Washington, D.C. to work on U.S. Senator Walter Mondale's sub-committee on migrant workers. In the summer of 1972, she worked in the western states for the campaign of Democratic presidential nominee George McGovern.

In the spring of 1974, Rodham became a member of the presidential impeachment inquiry staff, advising the Judiciary Committee of the House of Representatives during the Watergate Scandal. 

(Chief Counsel Jerry Zeifman would later contend that he fired Clinton from the committee for what he deemed as unethical professional behavior connected to Nixon's due process. These allegations have been contradicted by other media sources that deny Zeifman's authority over the young attorney at this time, with no comment from Clinton herself.) 

After President Richard M. Nixon resigned in August, she became a faculty member of the University of Arkansas Law School in Fayetteville, where her Yale Law School classmate and boyfriend Bill Clinton was teaching as well.


*Marriage to Bill Clinton*

Hillary Rodham married Bill Clinton on October 11, 1975, at their home in Fayetteville. Before he proposed marriage, Clinton had secretly purchased a small house that she had remarked that she liked. When he proposed marriage to her and she accepted, he revealed that they owned the house. Their daughter, Chelsea Victoria, was born on February 27, 1980.

In 1976, Hillary worked on Jimmy Carter's successful campaign for president while husband Bill was elected attorney general. Bill Clinton was elected governor in 1978 at age 32, lost reelection in 1980, but came back to win in 1982, 1984, 1986 (when the term of office was expanded from two to four years) and 1990.

Hillary joined the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock and, in 1977, was appointed to part-time chairman of the Legal Services Corporation by President Carter. As first lady of the state for a dozen years (1979-1981, 1983-1992), she chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee, co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, and served on the boards of the Arkansas Children's Hospital, Arkansas Legal Services and the Children's Defense Fund. She also served on the boards of TCBY and Wal-Mart.

In 1988 and 1991, _The National Law Journal_ named her one of the 100 most powerful lawyers in America.

On September 26, 2014, Clinton became a first-time grandmother when daughter Chelsea gave birth to Charlotte Clinton Mezvinsky.

Monica Lewinsky sex scandal. Though she publicly supported her husband, Mrs. Clinton reportedly considered leaving her marriage. He was impeached, but the U.S. Senate failed to convict and he remained in office.

*Senate Win and Presidential Run*

With her husband limited to two terms in the White House, Mrs. Clinton decided she would seek the U.S. Senate seat from New York held by Daniel Patrick Moynihan. He was retiring after four terms. Despite early problems and charges of carpetbagging, Clinton beat popular Republican Rick Lazio by a surprisingly wide margin: 55 percent to 43 percent. Clinton became the first wife of a president to seek and win public office and the first woman to be elected to the U.S. Senate from New York. She easily won reelection in November 2006.

In early 2007, Clinton announced her plans to strive for another first—to be the first female president. During the 2008 Democratic primaries, Senator Clinton conceded the nomination when it became apparent that nominee Barack Obama held a majority of the delegate vote.

*U.S. Secretary of State*

Shortly after winning the U.S. presidential election, Obama nominated Hillary Clinton as secretary of state. She accepted the nomination and was officially approved as the 67th U.S. secretary of state by the Senate on January 21, 2009.

During her term, Clinton used her position to make women's rights and human rights a central talking point of U.S. initiatives. She became one of the most traveled secretaries of state in American history, and promoted the use of social media to convey the country's positions. She also led U.S. diplomatic efforts in connection to the Arab Spring and military intervention in Libya.

The State Department, under Clinton's leadership, came under investigation after a deadly attack on a U.S. diplomatic post in Benghazi, Libya, killed U.S. ambassador Christopher Stevens and three others on September 11, 2012. An independent panel issued a report about the Benghazi attack, which found "systematic failures and leadership and management deficiencies" at the State Department.

*Health Issues*

Clinton, who said she took responsibility for security at the outpost in Benghazi, was scheduled to testify about the attack before Congress in December 2012. She canceled her scheduled testimony, however, citing a stomach virus and, later, a concussion that she suffered after fainting (the cause of which was later reported as dehydration). Some members of Congress questioned the timing of Clinton's illnesses, including Representative Allen West, who stated that he believed the secretary of state was suffering from "a case of Benghazi flu" on the day she was scheduled to testify.

On December 30, 2012, Clinton was hospitalized with a blod clot related to the concussion that she had suffered earlier in the month. She was released from a New York hospital on January 2, 2013, after receiving treatment, and soon recovered and returned to work.

*Benghazi Testimony and Resignation*

Clinton's testimony on the Benghazi attack came on January 23, 2013. Speaking to members of the House Foreign Relations Committee, she defended her actions while taking full responsibility for the incident, and was moved to tears when discussing the American citizens who were killed in Benghazi. "As I have said many times since September 11, I take responsibility, and nobody is more committed to getting this right," she told the House. She added, "I am determined to leave the State Department and our country safer, stronger and more secure."

Since taking office in 2009, Clinton repeatedly stated over the years that she was only interested in serving one term as secretary of state. She officially stepped down from her post on February 1, 2013.

*Bid for 2016 Presidency*

In early March 2015, Clinton faced controversy and criticism when it was revealed that she had used her personal email address to handle official governmental business during her time as secretary of state. In a news conference held at the United Nations, speaking initially on gender equality and the political situation in Iran, Clinton stated that she had utilized her personal email for convenience as allowed by state department protocol. She later turned over all governmental correspondence to the Obama administration while deleting messages that could be construed as personal. 

After much speculation and assumptions over whether Clinton would run for the U.S. presidency, her plans were made official in the spring of 2015. On April 12, Clinton's campaign chairperson John D. Podesta announced via email that the former secretary of state was entering the race to secure the Democratic presidential nomination for the 2016 elections. This was immediately followed by an online campaign clip, with Clinton herself announcing that she's running for president at the end of the video. She is considered a front-runner and, if successful, would be the first woman to earn the nomination for a major party's presidential bid.


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## RabzonKhan

*Chaos in Carson campaign as top aides resign*

*Campaign manager Barry Bennett and communications director Doug Watts both resigned, as Carson's operation struggles to regain momentum.*
By Kyle Cheney 12/31/15

Ben Carson's campaign manager and top communications aide resigned on Thursday, throwing the retired neurosurgeon's presidential run into chaos, with conflicting reports emerging about who will take over the struggling operation.

Campaign manager Barry Bennett and communications director Doug Watts both resigned, effective immediately, after weeks of speculation about a shakeup. Carson last week indicated such a move, saying that "everything" was "on the table" as far as changes with his campaign, though he later walked that back and said, “I think the people that I have are spectacular.”
Armstrong Williams, a close Carson confidant, told POLITICO he expects Bennett's replacement to be General Robert Dees, a top foreign policy adviser. "General Dees is going to run the organization," Williams said, rejecting reports that veteran political adviser Ed Brookover would be taking over. "Brookover’s a good guy. Very responsive, people like him ... You have no idea what General Dees is going to ask of Brookover or anybody else."

Williams said Dees would bring more than foreign policy heft to Carson's campaign leadership. "This guy has managed many operations around the world. He’s managed people. He knows how to lead," he said. *Read more*


*Cruz: The GOP race will be over by March*
By Katie Glueck 12/31/15

Ted Cruz took a victory lap Thursday following a strong fundraising report, repeatedly telling supporters on a phone call that he expects the race to be over by March -- but only after getting through an increasingly nasty run-up to the Iowa caucuses.
The political attacks, he warned, will get “uglier and uglier and uglier.”

“We’re winning right now, and as a result, I want to tell everyone to get ready,” he said on the call. “Strap on the full armor of God. Get ready for the attacks that are coming. We’ve already seen hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars in attacks directed at us. Well I went to tell you that come the month of January, we ain’t seen nothing yet.”

Still, Cruz observed at several points during the call that he expects that the race will finish well before the end of the primary season in June, saying “there’s a very good possibility that the Republican primary will be decided by the end of March.”

The call came one day after the Texas senator’s campaign announced he had raised around $20 million in the last three months of the year, an impressive haul that adds to his momentum in Iowa, where he leads in recent polls.

“I want to encourage everyone to get ready, because starting tomorrow morning, we are in a 90-day sprint to win this nomination, and then to turn around and win the general election,” he said. “To defeat Hillary Clinton in November of 2016 and to turn this country around.”

Cruz is widely expected to be among the top two finishers in the Feb. 1 Iowa caucuses, with many activists and operatives saying he looks on track to win it outright. His front-runner status has led to a growing number of attacks from rival campaigns and other outside groups, leading him to reassure supporters Thursday that it was better to be attacked than ignored.

“There’s an old line, if you’re not taking flak, you’re not over the target,” he said. “If we were sitting here on Dec. 31 and no one was attacking us and no one was going to be attacking us, I would be deeply, deeply concerned because it would mean we weren’t winning.”
Cruz continues to trail behind Donald Trump in national polls.

*His political director, Mark Campbell, asserted, “The other thing we’re really watching with great fascination is how more and more of the establishment wing of the Republican Party is coming to our campaign as the alternative to Mr. Trump. We wish Donald Trump a happy New Year and hope he had a wonderful holiday season, but all of us believe very firmly that Ted Cruz will be the next President of the United States.”*


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## Zabaniyah

America needs a leader who is sharp and witty in this day and age. 

Sloppiness would be a liability. 



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> I have not evaluated them seriously enough. Not Trump, that is for sure.



Carson is worse than Trump.


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## RabzonKhan

*Here Are All The Dates You Need To Know For Election 2016*

*We've got you covered.*

*Sam Levine* Associate Politics Editor, The Huffington Post
01/04/2016

It may seem as though the 2016 presidential election has been going on for an eternity. But technically, it hasn't even started yet! Soon, though, voters will actually begin to choose who they want to be the next president. Lucky them. Lucky all of us.

Here are some of the big dates to keep in mind in 2016:

*Jan. 14 -- *GOP Fox Business debate in North Charleston, South Carolina

*Jan. 17 -- *Democratic debate hosted by NBC in Charleston, South Carolina

*Jan. 28 -- *Fox News GOP debate in Des Moines, Iowa

*Feb. 1 -- *Iowa caucuses

*Feb. 6 -- *ABC News/Independent Journal GOP debate at St. Anselm College in Manchester, New Hampshire

*Feb. 9 -- *New Hampshire primary

*Feb. 11 -- *PBS Democratic primary debate in Wisconsin

*Feb. 13 -- *CBS Republican primary debate at the Peace Center in Greenville, South Carolina

*Feb. 20 -- *Nevada Democratic caucus and South Carolina Republican primary

*Feb. 23 -- *Nevada GOP caucus

*Feb. 27 -- *South Carolina Democratic primary

*March 1 -- *Super Tuesday: Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Massachusetts, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont and Virginia primaries; Alaska (GOP), Colorado and Minnesota will hold caucuses

*March 5 --* Kentucky (GOP), Nebraska (Dem.) and Kansas caucuses; Louisiana primary

*March 8 -- *Idaho (GOP), Mississippi andMichigan primaries;Hawaii Republican caucus

*March 13 -- *Puerto Rico GOP primary.

*March 15 -- *Ohio, Florida, Illinois, Missouri and North Carolina primaries

*March 22 -- *Arizona andUtah primaries; Idaho Democratic caucus

*March 26 -- *Alaska, Hawaii and Washington hold Democratic caucuses

*April 5 -- *Wisconsin primary

*April 19 -- *New York primary

*April 26 -- *Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island primaries

*May 3 --* Indiana primary

*May 10 -- *Nebraska (GOP) and West Virginia primaries

*May 17 -- *Kentucky (Dem.) and Oregon primaries

*May 24 -- *Washington Republican primary

*June 5 -- *Puerto Rico Democratic primary

*June 7 -- *California, Montana, New Jersey, New Mexico and South Dakota primaries

*June 14 -- *Washington, D.C., primary

*July 18-21 -- *Republican National Convention in Cleveland

*July 25-28 -- *Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia

*Sept. 26 -- *Presidential debate at Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio

*Oct. 4 -- *Vice presidential debate at Longwood University in Farmville, Virginia

*Oct. 9 -- *Presidential debate at Washington University in St. Louis

*Oct. 19 -- *Presidential debate at University of Nevada-Las Vegas

*Nov. 8 -- *Election Day


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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

*Poll: Neck-And-Neck 2016 Races in Iowa, New Hampshire*

by MARK MURRAY
JAN 10 2016

*Three weeks until the first presidential nominating contest, Donald Trump and Ted Cruz are running neck and neck in Iowa, while Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are also locked in a tight race in the Hawkeye State.*

What's more, Clinton and Sanders are within the margin of error in New Hampshire, while Trump has built a 16-point lead in the same state.

Those are the results of two brand-new NBC News/Wall Street Journal/Marist polls - the first NBC/WSJ/Marist early-state surveys of 2016, which for the first time measure likely voters.

In Iowa,* which holds its caucuses on Feb. 1, Ted Cruz leads Donald Trump by four points among likely caucus-goers, 28 percent to 24 percent - within the poll's margin of error of plus-minus 4.6 percentage points. They're followed by Marco Rubio at 13 percent and Ben Carson at 11 percent. No other Republican candidate gets more than 5 percent of the vote.*

Yet among the larger universe of potential Iowa caucus-goers, Trump actually leads Cruz by two points, 26 percent to 24 percent, suggesting that a larger turnout could benefit Trump in the state. (Back in October's NBC/WSJ/Marist poll, Trump was at 24 percent among potential caucus-goers, Carson at 19 percent, and Cruz and Rubio at just 6 percent.)

*On the Democratic side, frontrunner Hillary Clinton holds just a three-point lead among likely voters over Bernie Sanders, 48 percent to 45 percent, while Martin O'Malley gets 5 percent.*

But among potential Democratic caucus-goers, Clinton's advantage grows to six points, 49 percent to 43 percent. (In October, Clinton's lead here was 11 points, 47 percent to 36 percent.)

New Hampshire: Four Establishment GOP candidates split up almost 45 percent of vote

In New Hampshire, *which holds its presidential primaries on Feb. 9, Trump gets support from 30 percent of likely Republican primary voters.*

*He's followed by Marco Rubio at 14 percent, Chris Christie at 12 percent, Ted Cruz at 10 percent, and John Kasich and Jeb Bush tied at 9 percent each.*

That means that the four Republicans vying in the establishment lane of the GOP contest - Rubio, Christie, Kasich and Bush - are dividing up 44 percent of the total vote, according to the NBC/WSJ/Marist poll.

The GOP numbers are essentially unchanged among the larger pool of potential Republican voters in New Hampshire.

*In the Democratic race, Sanders is ahead of Clinton by four points among likely primary voters, 50 percent to 46 percent, which is within the margin of error of plus-minus 4.8 percentage points. O'Malley is at 1 percent.*

Among the larger universe of potential Democratic primary voters, Sanders' lead increases to six points, 50 percent to 44 percent. In October, the Vermont senator held a nine-point lead over Clinton.

Sanders outperforms Clinton in general-election matchups

The NBC/WSJ/Marist polls also show that Sanders outperforms Clinton in hypothetical general-election matchups in these two presidential battleground states - something other surveys have found, too.

In Iowa:


*Clinton leads Trump by eight points among registered voters (48 percent to 40 percent), but Sanders is ahead of him by 13 (51 percent to 38 percent);*
*Cruz tops Clinton by four points (47 percent to 43 percent), but Sanders beats him by five (47 percent to 42 percent);*
*And up Rubio is up by five points over Clinton (47 percent to 42 percent), while he's tied with Sanders (44 percent to 44 percent).*
In New Hampshire:


*Clinton is ahead of Trump by just one point (45 percent to 44 percent), but Sanders tops him by 19 points (56 percent to 37 percent);*
*Cruz beats Clinton by four points (48 percent to 44 percent), but Sanders leads him by another 19 points (55 percent to 36 percent);*
*And Rubio bests Clinton by 12 points (52 percent to 40 percent), while Sanders leads him by nine points (50 percent to 41 percent).*
The primary reason why Sanders tests better in these general-election matchups is due to his stronger performance with independent voters.

The NBC/WSJ/Marist polls were conducted Jan. 2-7. In Iowa, the poll measured 2,821 registered voters (+/- 1.8), 1,094 potential GOP caucus-goers (+/- 3.0%), 456 likely GOP caucus-goers (+/- 4.6%), 977 potential Democratic caucus-goers (+/- 3.1%) and 422 likely Dem caucus-goers (+/- 4.8%)

In New Hampshire, the poll measured 1,888 registered voters (+/- 2.3%), 887 potential GOP primary voters (+/- 3.3%), 569 likely GOP primary voters (+/- 4.1%), 690 potential Dem primary voters (+/- 3.7%) and 425 likely Dem primary voters (+/- 4.8%).


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## RabzonKhan

*Conservative elite, sounding a bit panicked, says Trump will destroy GOP*

By Howard Kurtz
January 11, 2016

The Republican establishment, which has always distrusted and discounted Donald Trump, is getting increasingly nervous.

*So nervous, in fact, that some of its media voices are starting to denounce their party’s front-runner in the strongest possible terms.

As in, refusing to vote for the man if he’s the nominee. As in, loudly proclaiming that he will destroy the GOP.

Viewed from one perspective, this has the smell of panic. Viewed from another, it’s a case of party stalwarts speaking out based on principle.*

For decades now, there has been primary-season sniping between the establishment wing and the insurgent/hard-line/Tea Party wing. Commentators rough up their least favorite candidate, even declare them unqualified for the White House.

But if that person prevails—think Mitt Romney in 2012—the sharpest Republican critics find a way to walk it back. Well, he wasn’t my first choice, but he would be better than Barack Obama. He’s evolved on immigration/tax cuts/ObamaCare. He would pull this country out of its left-wing tailspin.

*These days, the rhetoric is getting so hot that there will be no scrambling back on board. Bill Kristol has been openly musing about a third party if Trump wins the nomination.*

Does the conservative media elite hope to throw some tacks under the Trump steamroller with such sharp rhetoric? Or are its members just speaking out to clear their consciences?

If it’s the former, I think it might actually help Trump to have the Beltway types arrayed against him. These are the folks he is running against, and he’s never positioned himself as a doctrinaire conservative.

Michael Gerson, a Bush White House official who writes for the Washington Post, uses sweeping language:

“Trump’s nomination would not be the temporary victory of one of the GOP’s ideological factions. It would involve the replacement of the humane ideal at the center of the party and its history. If Trump were the nominee, the GOP would cease to be.”

Cease to be. That’s pretty historic stuff.

*Gerson calls Trump a “demagogue” who “has followed some of America’s worst instincts wherever they have led, and fed ethnic and religious prejudice in the process. All presidential nominees, to some extent, shape their parties into their own image. Trump would deface the GOP beyond recognition.”*

*In case you missed the point, Gerson says: “Trump is disqualified for the presidency by his erratic temperament, his ignorance about public affairs and his scary sympathy for authoritarianism. But for me, and I suspect for many, the largest problem is that Trump would make the GOP the party of racial and religious exclusion.”*

Doug Heye has been communications chief of the RNC, a top deputy to Eric Cantor and a Bush administration official. He makes a personal declaration in the Independent Journal:

“Because of Trump’s perversion of conservatism, along with the devastating impact he would have if nominated, I cannot support Donald Trump were he to win the Republican nomination.”

*Heye says Trump would be “dangerous to the United States and the world at a time when the world is at risk.” *His nomination, says Heye, “would be catastrophic for Republican hopes to win the White House and maintain control of the Senate and would damage the party and the conservative cause for years to come. His having the legitimacy that comes with the nomination of a major political party would cause greater instability throughout the world at a time when the world looks to America for leadership that is serious and sober.”

This is the New York Times’ latest version of the same story, calling it a “people’s coup”:

At family dinners and New Year’s parties, in conference calls and at private lunches, longtime Republicans are expressing a growing fear that the coming election could be shattering for the party, or reshape it in ways that leave it unrecognizable.

But a very different tack from Peggy Noonan, who worked for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, who turns the question back on the establishment:

“I do not understand the inability or refusal of Republican leaders to take Mr. Trump seriously. They take his numbers seriously—they can read a poll—but they think, as Mr. Bush said, that his support is all about anger, angst and theatrics. That’s part of the story, but the other, more consequential part has to do with real policy issues. The establishment refuses to see that, because to admit it is to implicate themselves and their leadership. Political consultants can’t see it because they don’t think issues matter—not to them and certainly not to the dumb voters.

“But issues do matter, and Mr. Trump has functioned this year not as a great communicator or great compromiser but as the great disruptor. He brags that he has brought up great questions and forced other candidates to face them and sometimes change their stands—and he has.”

There really isn’t much of an establishment left. It consists of some megabuck donors, elected officials, seasoned operatives and media pundits. They don’t have the power to stop Trump, and they know it.

The best they can hope for is to influence the debate. Their problem is that most of them don’t like Ted Cruz, either.


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## ultron

Trump is the best candidate. He will kill Obama's climate hysteria, destroy ISIS, make the world safe for Muslims and alike, take down illegal immigration, fix the economy.

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## RabzonKhan

ultron said:


> Trump is the best candidate. He will kill Obama's climate hysteria, destroy ISIS, make the world safe for Muslims and alike, take down illegal immigration, fix the economy.


He is a hotheaded bully with a very selfish nasty attitude, though the issues he has raised (illegal immigration and Obama's disastrous war on terror) are very important, but the way he wants to tackle them would lead to disaster.

America deserves better!


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## RabzonKhan

*Republican Debate 2016 FOX Business GOP 1/14/16*


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## RabzonKhan




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## CorporateAffairs

*Donald Trump is poised for the strongest primary performance in modern history *

Donald Trump is poised for the strongest primary performance in modern history


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## JanjaWeed

I don't know what to make out of this. Was always under the impression that Donald Trump was just a bubble which will burst well before the primaries. Expected GOP insiders like Bush & Rubio to come to the fore during the business end. Then again...Middle East turmoil is playing into Donald Trump's scheme of things...& he is making the most of it. Frankly, none could have benefited the way Trump could...'cause he is not obliged to be politically correct unlike rest of the contestants. 
Looks like it's going to be Trump vs Clinton...& now I wouldn't bet against Trump romping home with it. Man at the right place at the right time...


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## RabzonKhan

JanjaWeed said:


> I don't know what to make out of this. Was always under the impression that Donald Trump was just a bubble which will burst well before the primaries. Expected GOP insiders like Bush & Rubio to come to the fore during the business end. Then again...Middle East turmoil is playing into Donald Trump's scheme of things...& he is making the most of it. Frankly, none could have benefited the way Trump could...'cause he is not obliged to be politically correct unlike rest of the contestants.
> Looks like it's going to be Trump vs Clinton...& now I wouldn't bet against Trump romping home with it. Man at the right place at the right time...


I agree, the way things are going, most probably it’s going to be Trump vs Hillary, but I don’t think it’s going to be a cakewalk for him, Hillary has far more experience than this loudmouth fascist, so far, he has very successfully exploited the fear and anger of the white Republicans, but that strategy is not going to work at the general elections.

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## JanjaWeed

Rabzon said:


> I agree, the way things are going, most probably it’s going to be Trump vs Hillary, but I don’t think it’s going to be a cakewalk for him, Hillary has far more experience than this loudmouth fascist, so far, he has very successfully exploited the fear and anger of the white Republicans, but that strategy is not going to work at the general elections.



It's the momentum that counts. Even during 2008 primaries Hilary Clinton was hot favourite to get through the primaries. However voters went with Obama's oratory skill..& he managed to keep that momentum going right through the campaign. Then again...he had that head start against John McCain, thanks to Gerge Bush's 8 yrs. In Trump's case..it's a different story altogether. He has everything going for him right now...GOP is at its lowest ebb, current situation in the outside world is working to his favour,..& funny enough..all those hardcore republican sympathisers who at one point treated him like a joke including Fox News, are now coming around & dancing to his tune. However once the primaries are over & done with, he will have a real fight in his hand. Hilary Clinton has been through this before...but Trump hasn't. Media will dig out every minute details of his past...& feast on it. I'm certain Donald Trump has many skeletons in his cupboard..& it doesn't take long to sway public opinion in America. In any case it's going to be a interesting contest...

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## ultron

Trump 2016! Democrats, you are fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiired! Ha ha ha ha

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## RabzonKhan

ultron said:


> Trump 2016! Democrats, you are fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiired! Ha ha ha ha


I’m an independent, not a Democrat, I don’t believe in party politics. 

I have no doubt, Donald Trump is a bigger threat to our national security than our enemies.

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## RabzonKhan

Trump says “I could shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters” now imagine that, this man wants to become president of United States, and I will not be surprise if his poll numbers go up, thanks to his …..supporters.

Good news for Hillary, a very permanent Iowa newspaper Des Moines Register has endorsed her.









*Trump: I could 'shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters'*

Sioux Center, Iowa (CNN)Donald Trump boasted Saturday that support for his presidential campaign would not decline even if he shot someone in the middle of a crowded street.

*"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," Trump said at a campaign rally here.*


*
Endorsement: Hillary Clinton has needed knowledge, experience
*
The Register's Editorial9:46 p.m. CST January 23, 2016

If there’s one thing Democrats and Republicans agree on this year, it’s the fact that the next president will face enormous challenges.

*Domestically, this president must work with Congress in confronting the issues of immigration, health care, increased threats to national security, the disappearing middle class, the growing deficit, Social Security solvency, gun control, renewable energy, sentencing reform and more.*

*On the world stage, this president will have to work with foreign leaders in dealing with ISIS and other terrorists, climate change, the containment of nuclear threats posed in North Korea and Iran, the Russian incursions in Ukraine and foreign trade.*

*The presidency is not an entry-level position. Whoever is sworn into office next January must demonstrate not only a deep understanding of the issues facing America, but also possess the diplomatic skills that enable presidents to forge alliances to get things done.*

By that measure, Democrats have one outstanding candidate deserving of their support: Hillary Clinton. No other candidate can match the depth or breadth of her knowledge and experience.

*As first lady, she worked tirelessly on health care reform and, with bipartisan support, created the Children’s Health Insurance Program that provides coverage for 8 million children.*

As a senator, she reached across party lines and joined forces with conservatives, including Sen. Lindsey Graham and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, to fight for job creation and universal health care.

*As secretary of state, she helped secure international sanctions against Iran and redefined her job by expanding America’s diplomatic agenda to include poverty, women’s rights, the environment and other issues.*

She is not a perfect candidate, as evidenced the way she has handled the furor over her private email server. In our endorsement of her 2008 campaign for president, we wrote that “when she makes a mistake, she should just say so.” That appears to be a lesson she has yet to fully embrace.

Her changing stance on gay marriage, immigration and other issues has invited accusations that she is guided less by personal conviction than by political calculations. She refutes that, and argues persuasively that a willingness to change one’s thinking on specific issues, while remaining true to what she calls “the same values and principles,” is a virtue, one lacking in most politicians.

*Over the course of two meetings, Clinton spent more than three hours with the editorial board, answering questions in a direct and forthright manner. She exhibited an impressive command of the issues, though we’d have liked to hear more from her on the debt and the future of Social Security. She was somewhat prickly and defensive when discussing her emails, but overall she was gracious, engaging and personable.*

Her chief opponent for the nomination, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, has proven to be an honorable and formidable campaigner, and it’s very likely that without him in the race, candidates in both parties wouldn’t be discussing America’s growing inequality in wealth and income.

*Sanders has tapped into the public’s anger and frustration with Washington, without demonizing government and resorting to the cheap demagoguery favored by Donald Trump and others.* He has shown himself to be a man of courage and principle who has the ability to rally others to his cause.

But Sanders admits that virtually all of his plans for reform have no chance of being approved by a Congress that bears any resemblance to the current crop of federal lawmakers. This is why, he says, voters can’t simply elect him president, but must instead spark a “political revolution.”

Easier said than done. Congress has the largest Republican majority since the 71st Congress of 1929-31.

A successful Sanders presidency would hinge on his ability to remake Washington in his own image. It’s almost inconceivable that such a transformation could take place, even with Democrats controlling both chambers of Congress.

As for Martin O’Malley, the data-driven, wonkish former Maryland governor who has gained little traction in the campaign so far, he seems better suited to a Cabinet-level job in a Clinton White House.

*In the final analysis, Iowa Democrats will have to choose between the lofty idealism of Bernie Sanders and the down-to-earth pragmatism of Hillary Clinton. For some, this will be a choice of whether to vote with their hearts or their heads.

Clinton has demonstrated that she is a thoughtful, hardworking public servant who has earned the respect of leaders at home and abroad. She stands ready to take on the most demanding job in the world.*

*This endorsement is the opinion of The Des Moines Register’s editorial board:*
_
David Chivers, president and publisher_

*
*


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## ultron

Trump dominates Cruz in Iowa

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...in-iowa-still-dominates-in-new-hampshire.html


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## RabzonKhan

*

HUFFPOLLSTER: Trump And Clinton Lead, But Iowa Polling Remains Volatile With A Week To Go*

01/25/2016

Donald Trump has regained the lead in Iowa but things can still change. On the Democratic side, young voters could tip the caucus toward Bernie Sanders, but only if they turn out. And many people who say they’re independents are just embarrassed partisans. This is HuffPollster for Monday, January 25, 2016. *Read more*


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## F-22Raptor

After watching the Democratic Town Hall, I'm disappointed that Trump and Cruz are the best the GOP has to offer. Hillary was very impressive tonight. She's easily the most qualified candidate to become the POTUS.

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## faithfulguy

F-22Raptor said:


> After watching the Democratic Town Hall, I'm disappointed that Trump and Cruz are the best the GOP has to offer. Hillary was very impressive tonight. She's easily the most qualified candidate to become the POTUS.



Hillary sound good. But we all know that she us not trustworthy. She is natural at exaggerating and bending the truth. She was fired st 27 year old for lack of integrity.

Benny Sanders is your best bet as he is a socialist with integrity if you like socialists. I support Rand Paul. Trump is like Clinton or worse. Cruz is for nothing as he is against everything.



ultron said:


> Trump 2016! Democrats, you are fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiired! Ha ha ha ha



Trump is a democrat is disguised. His position was similar to that of Clinton. Until he was ready to run. He is a phony.


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## RabzonKhan

*Fox News says Donald Trump is afraid of Megyn Kelly*

By Hadas Gold 01/25/16

Fox News issued a fiery response to Donald Trump on Monday, suggesting the GOP front-runner is afraid of confronting anchor Megyn Kelly at Thursday's debate.

*The network's comments came after Trump said Kelly "doesn't treat me fairly" in an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

"I'm not a fan of Megyn Kelly. I don't like her, she probably doesn't like me but that's OK, but she has to be fair," Trump said. "I don't think she can treat me fairly, I think she's very biased."*

Trump has suggested he would potentially boycott the debate, though he told Blitzer he "probably" would attend. (Trump also threatened to boycott previous debates with CNBC and CNN but eventually attended every one.)

Trump has attacked Kelly off and on since the first GOP debate in August, also hosted by Fox News, when Kelly pointedly asked Trump about his rhetoric on women. Kelly has not directly responded to Trump's continued attacks, telling Vanity Fair this month that she can't be swayed as a journalist

Over the weekend, Trump tweeted that Kelly has a "conflict of interest" and shouldn't moderate the debate, leading Fox to issue a statement saying Kelly has no conflict and thanking Trump for "trying to build up the audience for Thursday’s debate, for which we thank him."

On Monday, the network's statement grew serious.

*"Sooner or later Donald Trump, even if he’s president, is going to have to learn that he doesn’t get to pick the journalists — we’re very surprised he’s willing to show that much fear about being questioned by Megyn Kelly" a network spokesperson said.





We checked if 2,000 voters recognized the 2016 candidates' faces. Here's what we found.

Updated by Dylan Matthews on January 26, 2016
*
Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are by far the most recognizable faces in the 2016 race, a poll conducted by Morning Consult and Vox has found.

Ninety-six percent of respondents to the online poll — which reached a sample of 2,028 registered voters from Thursday, January 21, through Sunday, January 24 — correctly identified a photo of Donald Trump, and 97 percent correctly identified a photo of Clinton.


By comparison, only 61 percent and 54 percent correctly identified Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio respectively, and only 69 percent correctly ID'ed Bernie Sanders.

Why poll recognizability? Because it can be easy for political junkies who have been following the campaign closely for months to forget how many voters really haven't been paying close attention, and how hard it is for the campaigns to get their messages across to those who don't already want to hear them. It's a useful reality check to know that with less than a week to go before the Iowa caucuses, more than four in 10 Americans can't pick Marco Rubio out of a crowd.

As a baseline, the poll also included four celebrities: George Clooney, Justin Bieber, Bill Murray, and Tom Brady. Trump and Clinton were both more recognizable than any of the four, but Clooney, Bieber, and Murray were more recognizable than the other candidates. Brady was only recognized by 56 percent of respondents, well below many candidates of both parties. In fairness, he was portrayed out of uniform to prevent respondents from inferring based on the New England Patriots' mascot:






*Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

*









Clinton Seen as Winner in November; A Trump Presidency Inspires Anxiety (POLL)*


By CHAD KIEWIET DE JONGE

Jan 28, 2016

Most Americans expect that Hillary Clinton would prevail against her leading GOP opponent in November, while Bernie Sanders’ chances are rated less well. The thought of Donald Trump as president inspires high levels of public anxiety.

A new ABC News/Washington Post poll also finds Americans divided about the need for a third party in this country – but not so divided about a potential independent run by Trump, should he fail to win the GOP nomination. Fewer than a quarter say they’d even consider voting for him as an independent candidate for president.

With Trump as the GOP nominee vs. Clinton, 54 percent of Americans say they’d expect Clinton to win; among registered voters (a more GOP-leaning group), Clinton has 52 percent support. Clinton’s seen by much wider margins as beating Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio. Sanders, for his part, is seen as beating Cruz or Rubio – but potentially losing to Trump.





Differences among partisans help explain the results in this poll, produced for ABC by Langer Research Associates. Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents are especially confident in a Clinton victory; 78 to 85 percent view her as the likely victor (including 89 to 94 percent of her own primary supporters). Leaned Democrats are less confident in Sanders; that’s particularly true of Clinton supporters.

Leaned Republicans are about as confident that Trump would beat Clinton (75 percent) as are leaned Democrats that Clinton would beat Trump (78 percent). But leaned Republicans are far less certain about either Cruz or Rubio beating Clinton – 63 and 61 percent, respectively, expect it. That fits with ABC/Post poll results, reported Tuesday, showing that Trump is viewed within his party as its most electable nominee.





Still, there are sharp divisions in expectations for Trump among leaned Republicans, reflecting the party’s polarization. Trump’s primary supporters almost unanimously see him defeating either Clinton or Sanders (by 93 and 98 percent, respectively). Eighty-two percent of those who support outsiders Cruz and Carson also think Trump would beat Clinton, but this slides to 57 percent of those who support any of the other GOP candidates. Supporters of more conventional candidates on the GOP side are skeptical of a Cruz victory vs. Clinton as well.

There also are substantial differences by education. Among those with college degrees, Clinton and Sanders clearly outpace the GOP competition. Those without a college degree have similar expectations about the chances of Cruz and Rubio, but are substantially more bullish on Trump, reflecting in part his strength in this group.
*Anxiety vs. comfort*
While Trump leads the top GOP candidates in expectations, he inspires significant concerns among Americans as they contemplate him as president. Seven in 10 say they’re “anxious” about the idea as Trump as president, including 51 percent who feel that way strongly. In contrast, a bare majority says a Clinton presidency would make them anxious.




Of the candidates tested, only Sanders comes out ahead in terms of comfort vs. anxiety: Fifty percent of Americans are comfortable with the idea of a Sanders presidency vs. 43 percent who are anxious about it. Americans are more nervous than calm about Cruz (-8 points), and slightly more concerned about Rubio and Clinton (both -5).



The differences across candidates largely reflect partisanship, with the exception of Trump; he generates anxiety even among 44 percent of leaned Republicans and 50 percent of conservatives (including 60 percent of “somewhat” conservatives vs. 38 percent of those who describe themselves as very conservative). Anxiety about Clinton in her own party is far lower.




Trump inspires particular anxiety among nonwhites and women:

• Nine in 10 blacks and eight in 10 Hispanics are nervous about the thought of him as president vs. 62 percent of whites. Anxiety among nonwhites drops substantially for Rubio and Cruz.

• Women are 17 points more likely than men to be anxious about a Trump presidency, while the gender gap is smaller for Rubio and Cruz. Men are cooler than women to the idea of a Clinton presidency, though no different than women in their reaction to Sanders as president.

Among other groups, Americans living in rural areas are much warmer to the idea of Trump as president. Half would be comfortable with it, compared with just 30 percent of suburbanites and 20 percent of city-dwellers.
*Read more*


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## CorporateAffairs

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/indian-american-pac-forms-support-donald-trump-n505981

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## RabzonKhan




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## T-72M1

even the liberal media is gushing over Trump





The Donald is on a roll


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## RabzonKhan

*6 problems with the Iowa polls*

*Trump and Clinton are leading. But maybe they're not.*

By Steven Shepard 01/31/16

Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton enter Monday with small, but consistent, leads in polls conducted in the days leading up to the Iowa caucuses. But what if the public polls are wrong?

What if Iowa Republicans choose Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio over Trump on Monday night? What if a surge of Bernie Sanders supporters propels the Vermont senator over Clinton in the Democratic caucuses?

After a series of high-profile misses in recent elections, America's pollsters outlined the hazards of polling the 2016 Iowa caucuses in interviews with POLITICO over the past week. Here are six things that complicate their efforts and could lead to an official result that doesn't look much like the one the polls appear to predict now.

*1. It’s a caucus – not a primary.*

*Participating in a caucus is harder than voting in a primary election. Unlike primaries, caucus voters can only cast their ballots in the evening, at a designated time. And the process is far more time consuming than arriving at the local polling place and pulling the lever. That has implications for turnout.*

But what really complicates things for pollsters is the very nature of the caucuses, where voters can and sometime do change their minds during the event. While the process is different for each party, both Democratic and Republican caucuses are communal experiences. Most states don’t allow “electioneering” within polling places, but the caucuses encourage it. Supporters give speeches, making the case for their candidates. In the Democratic caucuses, voters backing candidates who fail to meet a viability threshold in an initial vote – usually 15 percent – are lobbied to pick another candidate in the second round of voting.

Pollsters measure the intentions of voters in the days leading up to the caucuses. Even the entrance polls, which will be cited on all the cable-news networks Monday night, ask caucus-goers their vote preferences when they arrive. But none of that accounts for people who switch to another candidate during the caucus.
J. Ann Selzer, the long-time pollster behind the storied Des Moines Register survey, said last week that lobbying does have an impact.

“You may be someone who is for John Kasich, and you get approached by 17 Jeb Bush people” at the caucus site, she said. “All a poll can do is estimate what people intend to do,” Selzer said. “But it’s a process designed for people to change their minds in the room.”

*2. Who’s in the poll?*

*Pollsters call the caucuses low-incidence events. Attendance at the 2012 GOP caucus was only 6 percent of the overall pool of registered voters in the state. Four out of every five registered Republicans didn’t participate four years ago.*

But when pollsters call voters about their intentions before an election, those voter lie – or, more charitably, overestimate their own plans to vote. So pollsters are faced with the challenge of weeding out those who won’t actually show up on Caucus Night.

It’s a decision they often make before making a single phone call. Some pollsters choose to dial phone numbers in the state at random, so that every Iowan has an equal chance of being contacted. But other pollsters argue that that sampling frame is too broad. They restrict their surveys to those with a history of past turnout in caucuses, primaries and general elections.

More active voters are more honest about their own chances to vote than those who have a spottier voting record, according to Patrick Murray, the director of the Monmouth University Polling Institute. “People who have a higher proclivity of voting – if they say they are more likely to show up this time, they are more likely to show up this time. If they say they are less likely to show up this time, they are less likely to show up this time,” Murray said. “They are less likely to lie.”

There’s a middle ground, including how Selzer conducts polls for the Register and Bloomberg Politics: Call all registered voters in an effort to exclude non-voters – but not to cut out those who might be more motivated this year than in the past.

*3. Trump and Sanders might change voter profile.*

*Getting that right mix of voters is complicated in many ways by Trump and Sanders, who are appealing to non-traditional caucus-goers: Trump has a 16-point lead among respondents to the Des Moines Register/Bloomberg poll who say they are participating in their first Republican caucus, while Sanders leads first-time Democratic caucus-goers by 19 points.

That’s why it’s widely thought that a surge in turnout would boost those two men – and hurt Ted Cruz and Hillary Clinton, respectively. But will those people actually show up on Caucus Night?*

Of course, pre-election polls can’t determine that. But some are already arguing that the polls are including too many voters who won’t turn out on Monday, usually using some back-of-the-envelope math.

Jeff Roe, Cruz’s campaign manager, tweeted Saturday night after the release of the Register survey that Selzer’s poll was making assumptions about turnout that were unlikely to be borne out. Roe pointed out that the poll interviewed 3,019 registered voters – 602 of whom were determined to be likely to attend a Republican caucus.

Roe’s tweet: “602/3019 GOP voters is 19.9% of the 1.9 active voters in the state; simple math says: 386,000 turnout for GOP #youhadonejob.”

But all registered voters isn’t necessarily equivalent to those registered voters who would participate in a poll. Studies show that voters who are more likely to take the time to answer pollsters’ questions are also more likely to turn out for an election.

For her part, Selzer said her poll isn’t intended to be a turnout estimate. “I don’t think polling is a good tool for measuring turnout,” Selzer said in a separate interview late last year. “Polling is an estimation tool. So if we think there’s going to be a difference of 20,000 voters out of a state of 2.1 million, you’re dealing with such small fractions of percentage points that would make a difference.”

*4. Turnout's king but it's hard to predict.*
While the polls themselves aren’t necessarily indicative of what turnout will be on Monday night, turnout will affect the post-game verdict on whether those polls successfully predicted the outcome in Iowa.

Monmouth University polling data released last week looked at the horse-race at various turnout levels and showed Trump and Sanders both performing best with greater numbers of voters participating. Lower overall turnout, on the other hand, would appear to benefit Cruz and Clinton, respectively.

In the age of big-data campaigning, each candidate’s team knows which turnout levels are helpful or unhelpful for them – and they are acting accordingly, trying to motivate voters more likely to support them on Monday night.

But there are a number of other factors, too. There are the actions of the other candidates, and then there are external dynamics, like a snowstorm expected across much of Iowa on Tuesday that could begin Monday night.

*5. Democrats count delegates, not votes.*
The polls of the Democratic caucuses could be wrong – either Clinton or Sanders could romp to a decisive victory. But that will be harder to evaluate than on the Republican side.

That’s because, while Republicans report the total number of votes tallied by each candidate, Democrats only release the number of delegates won by each candidate at every precinct.

It’s possible to estimate vote totals by multiplying the percentage of delegates won by the candidates by the total number of attendees, but that’s imprecise. And, in many precincts, it’s likely any supporters of former Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley will be up for grabs, as O’Malley appears unlikely to meet the viability thresholds in the initial balloting.

“We are predicting something,” said Monmouth’s Murray, “where we’ll never know if we’re right or wrong.”

*6. Polling is harder now.*
Recent years haven’t been kind to political pollsters. And continuing technological changes in the ways in which Americans communicate mean 2016 could be even more difficult than other elections in which the polls were wrong.

That means – in addition to trying to thread the needle and accurately predict the volatile caucuses – pollsters have to grapple with all these changes.

Asked by POLITICO last fall if polling this election was more difficult than in the past, Selzer said: “Yes, but I would have said that four, eight, 12 years ago. At every given point it’s more difficult than it was in the good ole’ days of George Gallup.”





*We Asked Iowa’s Top Journalists What’s Going to Happen on Monday*

*Spoiler: They have no idea, either.*

By POLITICO Magazine 1/29/2016

What’s really going on in Iowa? Will masses turn out to caucus for Trump? Is Bernie Sanders going to be able to ride his momentum to a shocking win?

*Instead of speculating, we went straight to some of the people who know the situation on the ground best: The Iowa political editors and reporters who’ve been watching the race up close, and have lived through one cycle after the next.*

In a roundtable interview moderated by Politico senior politics editor Charlie Mahtesian, they offered some surprise insights: Voter turnout might not be an exception this year; *Hillary Clinton’s impressive ground game has done a solid job countering the Bernie Sanders wave; and Donald Trump—despite the polls, despite the crowds and despite the clear on-the-ground excitement—could still suffer an embarrassing defeat, not just to Ted Cruz but also to Marco Rubio.*

Behind it all lies the weariness of a state that has been uniquely inundated by the American campaign machine this season. After all the YouTube ads, the mail, the attacks on TV, jokes one editor: “I can’t wait to see a fertilizer commercial.”

***

*Charlie Mahtesian,Politico*: *Can you tell us a little bit about what the national media is missing about this story? What is it that we don’t understand about the state of the election or about Iowa, or is there something we consistently get wrong?*

*Ed Tibbetts, Quad City Times:* My perception is fairly positive when it comes to coverage. Over the years I was disabused of the notion that folks just parachute in. Yes, there are some who come for a brief period of time, but I think that a lot of the national media come and stay awhile, and it shows.

*Christinia Crippes, Waterloo-Cedar Falls Courier:* I sometimes feel like it gets missed that people are really not a hundred percent committed. People really do make up their minds at the last minute, and I think sometimes it kind of comes across that things are settled, or that some particular person is going to do well, when in reality these people are going to see multiple candidates. You see the same people on stops, and even if they say at one event that they like this person, they could go to the next one and say, ‘You know what? I was really impressed with this person, too.’

*CM:* *How does this compare with prior elections? Is the excitement level about the same? Is it heightened?*

*Dale Alison, Hawk Eye*: I’ve been here since ’85, and I think that it’s really a tough one to answer. The Donald Trump folks—those guys have been committed from Day One, and they have tended to draw in more and more. They’ve been good recruiters.

On the Democratic side, I really think Hillary Clinton has some rock-solid supporters, and she’s got her really solid core. But the enthusiasm is clearly with Sanders. And poor Martin O’Malley is just kind of left out.

*Amalie Nash, Des Moines Register:* This is my first experience with Iowa caucuses. I’ve asked that question of a lot of people here, both on the [_Des Moines Register_] staff as well as out in the community, and I think because of how large the field is, there has been a lot more interest from the beginning, and then when you have someone like Donald Trump running, that sort of ratchets up the coverage. I think people are a little bit more interested and excited.

We have a project that focuses on getting millennials involved with elections. And so, as we’ve been doing that and talking to a lot of millennials and having them write for us and do various things, I’ve been impressed with how engaged they are. I think part of that has to do with Sanders, because a lot of them are leaning in that direction. He’s got that young support in a lot of different factions here. It definitely seems like there’s a lot of interest from all different sort of demographics out there right now.

*Bret Hayworth, Sioux City Journal: *The _Sioux City Journal_ covers 15 of Iowa’s 99 counties—and my day yesterday was spent calling county auditors and getting voter registration numbers, and we compared voter registration this year one week before the caucuses to the 2008 and 2012 elections. Very, very similar numbers.

*AN:* Our pollster keeps the voter list updated, and so she’s constantly looking at that and sent us an update on January 18, saying that at the end of the prior week they had about 10,000 new registrants on that list, divided pretty evenly between male and female.

*ET:* It’s difficult to figure out from one caucus cycle to the next whether the electorate is more excited. In 2008, we saw a great level of interest and excitement that I would say is probably similar to what we’re seeing in this cycle. What strikes me as being different, as it is in every cycle, is just the amplification of media and avenues for messaging.

*DA:* *I think you can draw some parallels between Bernie Sanders in 2015 and Barack Obama in 2007. And I think there was that constant support for Hillary Clinton, even in that cycle, but the people who could be influenced tended to drift to Obama back then, and I think those same people are probably drifting to Sanders.*

On the Republican side, I think everybody can agree that there has never been anything quite like Donald Trump, and everything seems to be reflected through that lens. He’s consumed everything on the Republican side.

*CM:* *Will Sanders and Trump supporters actually turn out? What can you tell us about what the electorate is going to look like Monday? Do you think the energy surrounding the Sanders and Trump campaigns will actually translate into turnout in the way it did with Barack Obama when the same questions had surfaced?*

*DA:* *Absolutely. I look at Sanders and Trump as generating the same type of people who are dissatisfied with the status quo, who are dissatisfied with the way things are going. Those people have rallied around somebody who is different, and I think those people are highly motivated to turn out Monday.*

*CC:* I live next to a college town and so from my standpoint, I see better that Bernie Sanders' people are organized and doing events that teach people how to caucus. They had an event the other night that explained to people the process of caucusing. At least in this part of Iowa, I see that Bernie Sanders’ people will probably be organized and show up.

*DA:* It would not surprise me in the least if Donald Trump comes out of this blanked. Those [voters interested in Trump] may show up for the Republican caucus, but they may turn out voting for somebody else, and I could see the Trump campaign essentially vanishing after this.

*ET:* Some of the strategists that I’ve talked to say that at least on the Democratic side, they don’t see a turnout like we saw in 2008. On the Republican side, some of the smarter folks I’ve talked to have talked about the possibility of a larger turnout. Given just how small a slice of the electorate the caucus participants are, it’s really something that’s just so difficult to know.

*CM:* *The Iowans I’ve talked to are expecting a record-breaking turnout this year. Are there any contrarians among you who think that maybe that’s not the case, that maybe the level of excitement among Republicans might be overstated, that this might just turn out to be a standard year?*

*BH:* I go simply on interviews that I’ve done with people, but I think it’s perhaps overstated that it’s going to be some record turnout amongst Republicans. Talking with some county officials again, as I’ve done in the last few days, I talked to one who—in the largest county up here in northwest Iowa—said it looks like it’s a typical presidential year.

*DA:* In this state, I think it’s going to be highly dependent upon the weather. If it looks like it’s snowy or rainy, which I think is a possibility, that could have a huge impact.

*CM:* *We’ve talked a lot about the rallies and the field organization and the mechanics of the campaigns. I was wondering if anyone could go out on a limb and about who you think has run the best campaign in Iowa. Which stands out as a campaign that’s really wired in to the state, organized everywhere, and has attracted the notice of Iowa?*

*DA:* *I think Hillary Clinton has maintained the support she had in ’08, and then she went out and purposely tried to round up the Obama supporters, and I think she was pretty successful at that. But I don't know that anybody saw the Sanders wave coming, and I think the new people in the party are really enthused by Bernie Sanders. Sanders was able to capitalize on his surge, but I think Clinton has been able to beat that back. On the Republican side, it’s been all over the place. Read more*


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## F-22Raptor

The 2016 Presidential Race kicks off today in Iowa! Should be interesting!


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## RabzonKhan

*What Are Caucuses and How Do They Work?

Patrick Allan 2/1/2016
*
Before the general election, each state has its primaries and caucuses, and today’s Iowa caucus kicks off the election seasons. If you’re nodding your head like “yes, of course, _the caucus_,” but secretly have no idea what the heck everyone is talking about, this explainer is for you.

Before a presidential candidate can be on the ballot for the general election, they have to win the approval and backing of their political party. Think of the caucuses and primaries as the NFL playoffs—with candidates dropping out after each round of voting—and the general election this fall is like the Super Bowl where (usually) two candidates go head to head for the right to fart in the oval office.


*How Is a Caucus Different Than a Regular Primary?*
Every state has either a caucus or a regular primary, but both are part of the primary election process. A regular primary is essentially a ballot election, open to all eligible voters in that party. A caucus is more of a political event, especially for Democrats (more on that in a bit).

Both are run at the state level, but primaries are run by state governments, while caucuses are run by state party officials. In terms of accessibility, voters participate in primaries by casting a ballot at any point during on a primary election day. Caucuses, on the other hand, take place at a very specific time, in a specific place. If you’re late or unavailable, you cannot participate. Caucuses are also a much larger time commitment, with some taking several hours to complete. This list from Election Central will let you see whether your state is holding a primary or caucus, and when it is.

*What Happens at a Caucus*
So what actually happens at these caucuses? A lot depends on your party affiliation, but there are a few things you can expect no matter who you are. For both Republicans and Democrats, a caucus can be a long affair. Iowa’s caucus today, for example, will begin promptly at 7 p.m. and probably last around two or three hours. Voters will meet at schools, churches, and other community centers across the state’s 1,681 precincts, and then kick things off. Each precinct chooses or introduces its delegates, or their party representatives to the national convention later this year. Party officials do some last-minute campaigning or give a few speeches, and sometimes presidential candidates will even attend. Finally, after all of that, the actual voting will begin.

That’s where things start to differ dramatically. Here’s the breakdown:

*If You’re a Republican:*
After hearing some speeches and maybe talking with a few politicos, you cast a secret ballot in a private voting booth just as you would during a regular primary or general election. That’s it for a Republican Party caucus.

*If You’re a Democrat:*
The voting process at a Democratic Party caucus is a little more physical and time-consuming, but also a little more exciting. Here’s how it all breaks down:


The total number of voters at the caucus are counted.
Voters gather in a large room to talk amongst themselves and convince one another their candidate is bigger, stronger, and way cooler.
Voters are then asked to vote by swarming into groups for each candidate. They may also stand aside in an “undecided” group at first.
The number of people in each group is then counted off.
Any candidate that doesn’t have at least 15% of the total head count is removed.
Then the “realignment” phase begins. Voters who were in a removed candidate’s group, or part of the undecided pool, must then choose a new candidate to side with. While they decide, voters are allowed to talk to each other (read: shout over) and try to convince the newly unaligned why their candidate is bigger, stronger, and way cooler.
Once those voters huddle up with their new groups, everyone is counted off again, and candidates with less than 15% of the total head count are removed.
That process continues until there are only viable candidates left. If this process sounds like it could get intense and loud, you’re correct. This video from inside a 2008 Iowa caucus will give you a little taste.

*What Happens After That?*
Depending on the state, delegates are divided based on the caucus results, and sent to the national party convention to vote for their candidate on behalf of their state. Some states have “binding” primary elections, which are more of a winner-take-all contest. In states with binding primary elections, all of a state’s delegates are awarded to one candidate. Other states have “proportional” primary elections, where delegates are awarded in proportion to the popular vote. Finally, there are “non-binding” primary elections. Non-binding primary elections first select candidates for a state convention, where those candidates vote for how to divide the state’s delegates.

Some states, like Iowa for example, start even smaller and select candidates for a _county_ convention, who then select candidates for a state convention, who then finally vote for delegates to the national convention. It all varies by state, so if you’re curious how your state handles it, this list from USElections.comexplains.

Finally, the delegates from each state go to their respective party’s national convention and cast their vote for their party’s presidential nominee. They_usually_ vote based on the results in their precinct, so it’s not uncommon for winners to be forecast early on. That said, delegates aren’t necessarily required to uphold their pledge, so a close race can still be anybody’s game. After the delegate’s votes are counted, each party announces their presidential nominee.

*How You Can Get Involved*
If you want to be part of the process, caucuses are a chance for you to put your vote where your mouth is. There are a few things you should know, first:


*Find out if your state’s caucus is closed or open.* Some are “closed,” which means you can only participate if you are a registered member of that political party. Nevada, Wyoming, Colorado, Nebraska, Kansas, Maine, Alaska, and Hawaii all have closed caucuses. Some are “open,” meaning a registered voter may participate in any caucus regardless of party affiliation. Washington, Idaho, North Dakota, and Minnesota all have open caucuses. You can refer to the Election Central list from earlier to see what type of caucus is held in your state.
*The earlier you can register to vote the better*. A caucus is different than a standard primary, but you still need to be a registered voter. Almost every caucus state allows same-day voter registration, but some (like Colorado) require you to be registered beforehand. Even if your state does offer same-day voter registration, you’ll probably save everyone some time by registering beforehand.
*Be punctual.* To participate in a caucus, you absolutely _must_ be on time. Both parties are very strict with that.
The voters you’ll find at caucuses are usually a little more politically involved, but that doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t participate. So get registered and go be the change that you seek.

*Why Is the Iowa Caucus So Important?*
The Iowa caucus only accounts for 1% of the total delegates that will be casting their votes at National Conventions, and the entire primary election process will take several months to completely run its course. So why all the hoopla? Well, Iowa’s caucus has been the first phase of the presidential race since 1972, and political analysts believe a lot can be determined from just this one state’s caucus results. The Des Moines Register explains how previous Iowa caucuses shook out:

Since 1972, the top voter-getter in the Democratic caucuses has gone on to win the nomination in seven of nine contested races, but just Jimmy Carter in 1976 and Barack Obama in 2008 won the presidency. Among Republicans since 1980, the winner of the Iowa caucuses has gained the nomination twice in six contested races, but the presidency just once: George W. Bush in 2000.

Candidates that win the Iowa caucus don’t always go on to win their party’s nomination, but history suggests it’s a fairly good indicator of things to come. Winning the first caucus is often seen as a “great start” by voters, and gives candidates some valuable publicity and momentum. That all translates into more money from supporters and donors, and more money means more prime-time TV ads and floppy signs that sit in your front lawn.


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## F-22Raptor

It's looking like tonight will be Trumps worst nightmare. He's barely holding on to second place.

Cruz has officially won Iowa.

With Rubio performing so well, this race is about to get ugly.

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## RabzonKhan

*Cruz beats Trump in Iowa; Rubio comes in a strong third*

By Jose A. DelReal, Juliet Eilperin and David NakamuraFebruary 1 at 10:32 PM

DES MOINES — Supporters of Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas delivered a hard-fought upset win over businessman Donald Trump in the Iowa Republican caucuses Monday night, making good on his bet that a methodical campaign organization would eclipse the New Yorker’s media dominance in the first test of GOP voters.

*With 99 percent of the precincts reporting, Cruz was besting Trump by more than 5,100 votes, with fellow senator Marco Rubio of Florida a close third. Cruz appeared to capitalize on deep support from religious and social conservatives and showed that old-fashioned retail politicking could overcome Trump’s massive political rallies in the Hawkeye state.*

*On the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton was holding a narrow 50 percent to 49 percent lead over Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) late in the vote tallying, as months of heated rhetoric and fierce jockeying in the 2016 race for the White House was finally put to the test.*

Former Maryland governor Martin O’Malley had negligible support and was expected to suspend his campaign Monday night, according to a person close to his campaign.

Voters gathered at caucus sites in 99 counties around the state. The last-minute lobbying officially began at 7 p.m. Central time, with votes following. Political operatives predicted a high turnout--and there were reports that some sites were so packed that officials had trouble closing the doors--despite a significant snowstorm that was bearing down on the state. Forecasters said the storm would likely hit after the caucuses were closed.

“I pray we will win,” Cruz said during a stop at a Baptist Church in Marion, Iowa.

Perhaps it made sense that he was calling for support from a higher power in his tough battle for the GOP nomination against Trump, the brash New Yorker who has led the Republican polls since shortly after declaring his candidacy last summer.

Trump and Sanders made their final pushes Monday to coax non-traditional voters to the caucuses here, even as their chief rivals suggested well-tested organizing tactics would give them the crucial margin of victory instead.

Television networks showed Trump, in a solid red tie, visiting a caucus site in West Des Moines with wife, Melania, in a matching all-red ensemble, and taking a seat in the front row. One woman approached and posed with him for a selfie photo on her mobile phone.

“We are going to bring our country back,” Trump told the caucus crowd, speaking into a microphone. Reflecting on a campaign that was dismissed early on by the political establishment in Washington, Trump said: “It’s really been a journey, an amazing journey. I’m a messenger. We’re going to run it the way it’s supposed to be run--as a great, great country.” *Read more*


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## T-72M1

this was always going to be Trump's toughest primary, in New Hampshire he's polling ahead of the rest by huge margins, let's see if he can hold on to the lead and it translating into a win there.


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## RabzonKhan

*Iowa caucus results*

*Democrats*
*



*

*Republicans*
*



*

*Next New Hampshire on February 9
*​


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## Moonlight

Trump or Cruz? It just makes me laugh. Like picking less stupid person out of two morons.


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## RabzonKhan

Ammara Chaudhry said:


> Trump or Cruz? It just makes me laugh. Like picking less stupid person out of two morons.


I’m supporting Hillary Clinton, but I think Jeb Bush and Rubio are far better than these two fanatics.


*Democratic Candidates Debate by MSNBC - 02-04-2016




*


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## Moonlight

RabzonKhan said:


> I’m supporting Hillary Clinton, but I think Jeb Bush and Rubio are far better than these two fanatics



Yes I am supporting Hillary as well. At least better than Cruz and trump. Btw Cruz is winning the caucus elections so far. Currently, Rubio is on second in this race.

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## RabzonKhan

*



*
Heil Trump!

*Trump's unwelcome support: White supremacists


*


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## RabzonKhan

*(2/6/2016) ABC News Republican Presidential Debate (FULL VIDEO)*

*



*


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## RabzonKhan

Donald Trump does it again, this time he used the word “pussy” against his closest rival, Ted Cruz.

It all started when one of his low-life female supporters shouted profanity against Ted Cruz, Trump became very excited, and told the woman to shout it out again, and again, as that was not enough, he then himself used that dirty word.

This man is a total disgrace and has no standards.

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## F-22Raptor

Trump and Sanders win New Hampshire.

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## Serpentine

I like Sanders, especially the fact that he is inspiring the younger generation and many first-time voters. If he wins, it would indeed be a political revolution.

Awesome ad btw.

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## RabzonKhan

Serpentine said:


> I like Sanders, especially the fact that he is inspiring the younger generation and many first-time voters. If he wins, it would indeed be a political revolution.
> 
> Awesome ad btw.


I also like him he’s a very decent person, funny thing is that the way he speaks, he reminds me of actor Christopher Lloyd best known for his roles as "Doc" in the Back to Future movie series.

But quite frankly his socialist revolutionary ideas scare the hell out of me.

So far in the Democratic Party presidential primaries and caucuses in Iowa and New Hampshire he has performed well, how he performs in larger states, it remains to be seen, even though his chances of becoming Democratic Party nominee are quite bleak, just for the sake of argument, if he does become a nominee, I think he will have a hard time facing a hostile Republican in the general election, since the Republicans have already been calling him a crazy socialist. Socialist presidential candidates are the least liked by the Americans.

In mid-2015, Gallup poll, 92% Americans said that they are willing to vote for a black, 91% for Hispanic, 74% for gay or lesbian, 60% for Muslim and only 47% for socialist presidential candidate, the point is socialism has even worse reputation than Muslims.

It is a good ad, but there is a problem, Mr. Bernie, through his socialist slogans is also trying to divide the rich and poor Americans, and that is wrong.

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## XenoEnsi-14

Serpentine said:


> I like Sanders, especially the fact that he is inspiring the younger generation and many first-time voters. If he wins, it would indeed be a political revolution.
> 
> Awesome ad btw.


I think I might go Republican for the Primaries and vote for any candidate except Trump to knock him out. Then on General elections vote Sanders or Libertarian.

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## Serpentine

RabzonKhan said:


> I also like him he’s a very decent person, funny thing is that the way he speaks, he reminds me of actor Christopher Lloyd best known for his roles as "Doc" in the Back to Future movie series.
> 
> But quite frankly his socialist revolutionary ideas scare the hell out of me.
> 
> So far in the Democratic Party presidential primaries and caucuses in Iowa and New Hampshire he has performed well, how he performs in larger states, it remains to be seen, even though his chances of becoming Democratic Party nominee are quite bleak, just for the sake of argument, if he does become a nominee, I think he will have a hard time facing a hostile Republican in the general election, since the Republicans have already been calling him a crazy socialist. Socialist presidential candidates are the least liked by the Americans.
> 
> In mid-2015, Gallup poll, 92% Americans said that they are willing to vote for a black, 91% for Hispanic, 74% for gay or lesbian, 60% for Muslim and only 47% for socialist presidential candidate, the point is socialism has even worse reputation than Muslims.
> 
> It is a good ad, but there is a problem, Mr. Bernie, through his socialist slogans is also trying to divide the rich and poor Americans, and that is wrong.
> 
> 
> View attachment 292870
> 
> 
> View attachment 292871



The question arises, aren't the rich and poor Americans already divided? I'm no American national and they should choose what's best for them. But one thing I know is that, Sanders is a whole lot better than any of the nutjobs in GOP. Hillary on the other hand, I don't like anything about her, it just feels like anything she says and does is artificial and made up, but then again, it's all up to Americans to decide.

About socialists, there is one primary reason for that and it's a heritage of cold war. They tend to think all socialists are something 'Soviet-like'. Bernie sanders has proved many wrong. Although his chances are still narrow, but the fact that he has managed to absorb many voters, most of them young (all by a guy who was barely known in America) means it's possible for Americans to have a socialist candidate and not be scared of him. And honestly, I didn't find anything scary in his points.



XenoEnsi-14 said:


> I think I might go Republican for the Primaries and vote for any candidate except Trump to knock him out. Then on General elections vote Sanders or Libertarian.



If a republican is to be a president, I prefer Trump, so all Americans get to know how low the GOP has went. Bunch of nutjobs and warmongers. If Trump, Cruz or Rubio are the best Republicans can offer, then let Trump be a nail in GOP's coffin, at least for some years.



RabzonKhan said:


>



Exactly what I'm talking about, credit goes to decades of propaganda against socialists in US, painting any of them as someone like Stalin or Khrushchev.

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## XenoEnsi-14

Serpentine said:


> If a republican is to be a president, I prefer Trump, so all Americans get to know how low the GOP has went. Bunch of nutjobs and warmongers. If Trump, Cruz or Rubio are the best Republicans can offer, then let Trump be a nail in GOP's coffin, at least for some years.


Then it would be a One Party system, I'd rather both parties die a slow painful whimper and increase the third parties. In reality I would like a total Party system failure replaced with a No Political Affiliation system.


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## RabzonKhan

FULL PBS Democratic Debate: Hillary Clinton VS Bernie Sanders Feb. 11, 2016 (6th Dem Debate)


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## RabzonKhan

Serpentine said:


> The question arises, aren't the rich and poor Americans already divided? I'm no American national and they should choose what's best for them. But one thing I know is that, Sanders is a whole lot better than any of the nutjobs in GOP. Hillary on the other hand, I don't like anything about her, it just feels like anything she says and does is artificial and made up, but then again, it's all up to Americans to decide.
> 
> About socialists, there is one primary reason for that and it's a heritage of cold war. They tend to think all socialists are something 'Soviet-like'. Bernie sanders has proved many wrong. Although his chances are still narrow, but the fact that he has managed to absorb many voters, most of them young (all by a guy who was barely known in America) means it's possible for Americans to have a socialist candidate and not be scared of him. And honestly, I didn't find anything scary in his points.


If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. No doubt, the economy needs some fine tuning (increase the minimum wage, investment in the infrastructure, Obama care should be made more affordable), but definitely not some kind of socialist revolution.

Let me briefly explain what scares me:

1. For the last three years the US has top the foreign direct investment confidence index (FDI), in 2015 the US received $384 billion FDI, and with that investment almost 800,000 jobs were created. For the last five years the US has attracted $220 billion FDI annually. But guess what, if Trump of Bernie is elected then the FDI can take a nosedive (*Source*).

2. According to the Wall Street journal, Bernie Sanders proposals could cost $18 trillion. Nationalizing the US health industry will cost $15 trillion. Social Security will cost another $1.2 trillion. Our national debt is $19 trillion, can we afford more dept, I don’t think so.

3. There is no way that Sanders can accomplish any of his proposals in the U.S. Congress, which is today dominated by Republican. Mr. Sanders say that if he is elected he will abolish Obama care and replace it with Medicare for all. When Pres. Obama’s health care bill was approved (affordable care act) the Democrat had a house majority 257-178 and almost 60 seats in the Senate, today the Republicans have the house majority 246-188 and are also majority in the Senate, 54 Republic, 44 Democrats and two independent. Anyone who understands how the US system works knows very well that it’s going to be a gridlock. In other words, nothing will be achieved, four years will be lost, can the US afford that, of course not.

4. In the early days in his campaigns and debates, Sanders always used to mention Denmark as a the socialist role model,

here is what Prime Minister of Denmark had to say:

While speaking at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government, the center-right Danish Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen said he was aware “that some people in the U.S.associate the Nordic modelwith some sort of socialism.”

“Therefore,” he said, “I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy.” (*Source*).

Of course, after the embarrassment, he does not mention the great socialist republic of Denmark anymore. 

The bottom line is, big promises ($18 trillion cost), there is no way can pass through the U.S. Congress and no other rich country follows what Mr. Sanders is proposing.

Donald Trump wants to divide us with his anti-Muslim agenda and Bernie Sanders with class warfare, both are dividers. We need a president who’ll unite us, not divide us.

Mr. Bernie Sanders, just like Trump, is a chaos candidate and will be a chaos president.

Bty, I am supporting Hillary Clinton, but if Hillary loses and I have to choose between Sanders and Jeb Bush, John Kasich, or Marco Rubio, I’ll definitely vote for Republican.


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## Tiger Genie

RabzonKhan said:


> If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. No doubt, the economy needs some fine tuning (increase the minimum wage, investment in the infrastructure, Obama care should be made more affordable), but definitely not some kind of socialist revolution.
> 
> Let me briefly explain what scares me:
> 
> 1. For the last three years the US has top the foreign direct investment confidence index (FDI), in 2015 the US received $384 billion FDI, and with that investment almost 800,000 jobs were created. For the last five years the US has attracted $220 billion FDI annually. But guess what, if Trump of Bernie is elected then the FDI can take a nosedive (*Source*).
> 
> 2. According to the Wall Street journal, Bernie Sanders proposals could cost $18 trillion. Nationalizing the US health industry will cost $15 trillion. Social Security will cost another $1.2 trillion. Our national debt is $19 trillion, can we afford more dept, I don’t think so.
> 
> 3. There is no way that Sanders can accomplish any of his proposals in the U.S. Congress, which is today dominated by Republican. Mr. Sanders say that if he is elected he will abolish Obama care and replace it with Medicare for all. When Pres. Obama’s health care bill was approved (affordable care act) the Democrat had a house majority 257-178 and almost 60 seats in the Senate, today the Republicans have the house majority 246-188 and are also majority in the Senate, 54 Republic, 44 Democrats and two independent. Anyone who understands how the US system works knows very well that it’s going to be a gridlock. In other words, nothing will be achieved, four years will be lost, can the US afford that, of course not.
> 
> 4. In the early days in his campaigns and debates, Sanders always used to mention Denmark as a the socialist role model,
> 
> here is what Prime Minister of Denmark had to say:
> 
> While speaking at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government, the center-right Danish Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen said he was aware “that some people in the U.S.associate the Nordic modelwith some sort of socialism.”
> 
> “Therefore,” he said, “I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy.” (*Source*).
> 
> Of course, after the embarrassment, he does not mention the great socialist republic of Denmark anymore.
> 
> The bottom line is, big promises ($18 trillion cost), there is no way can pass through the U.S. Congress and no other rich country follows what Mr. Sanders is proposing.
> 
> Donald Trump wants to divide us with his anti-Muslim agenda and Bernie Sanders with class warfare, both are dividers. We need a president who’ll unite us, not divide us.
> 
> Mr. Bernie Sanders, just like Trump, is a chaos candidate and will be a chaos president.
> 
> Bty, I am supporting Hillary Clinton, but if Hillary loses and I have to choose between Sanders and Jeb Bush, John Kasich, or Marco Rubio, I’ll definitely vote for Republican.



Bernie is a likable idiot and trump is an arrogant idiot. Idiots unfortunately seem more genuine than the dumb politicians and therefore we the American idiots get to chose between likable village drunk and the arrogant orange top.

I hope Bloomberg decides to run


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## Salman_Farsi

If I was Bernie, I would work more on my haircut  apparence is very important in politics!





I think Sanders has a high chance to defeat Hillary in their party; but regarding the attraction of a large part of Americans to extremist and 'sloganism' people like Trump and their hatred toward socialism, he won't have a considerable chance against Republicans.

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## RabzonKhan

Tiger Genie said:


> Bernie is a likable idiot and trump is an arrogant idiot. Idiots unfortunately seem more genuine than the dumb politicians and therefore we the American idiots get to chose between likable village drunk and the arrogant orange top.
> 
> I hope Bloomberg decides to run


I lived in New York City from 2009-2011, Bloomberg used to be the mayor, he was a great mayor. Bloomberg has been testing the waters since 2006, I think it would be a good if he decides to run, but quite frankly, I won’t hold my breath.



Salman_Farsi said:


> If I was Bernie, I would work more on my haircut  apparence is very important in politics!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think Sanders has a high chance to defeat Hillary in their party; but regarding the attraction of a large part of Americans to extremist and 'sloganism' people like Trump and their hatred toward socialism, he won't have a considerable chance against Republicans.


Bernie has strong support from mostly left-leaning white voters, to win the Democratic nomination one also needs strong support from the minorities.


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## T-72M1

cant stump the trump


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## Piper

Who would Pakistan want in the White House come 2017?

1. Trump
2. Hillary
3. Cruz
4. Sanders

My view

1. Trump is going to be disastrous - He is an oaf who would destroy our delicate relationship with the subtlety of a wild buffalo. 
2. Hillary - She is a status quo candidate and knows the ins and outs. Likely to maintain balance in the sub continent
3. Cruz - He is a baby monster. Same as Trump
4. Sanders - He is not status - quo but would focus more on domestic issues leaving FP in the hands of State Dept which is likely to maintain the friendly relation with Pakistan.

So Democrats are the best for Pakistan in my opinion. If Jeb could win then even he would have preserved things being a pragmatic he is.


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## Tiger Genie

I have been enjoying these circus shows. But yesterday it seemed Trump completely lost control. He was not even coherent which means Bush and Rubio got under his skin.

Frankly Bush seems to be a decent guy and Rubio a capable guy. Kasich has a decent record. In anyother election these three would have provided ample choice and thoughtful debates but with the blowhard Trump and the nutjob Cruz, everyone has been diminished. In what should have been an easy victory for the Republican nominee to next presidency, Trump has managed to even the field for the democrats.

Hilary Clinton presidency seems the scariest idea. She has so far struck me as standing for nothing, believing in nothing and liking nothing. I ask myself what I don't like about her - I cannot think of a single idea she has expressed for me to like or dislike. But her style, the ease with which she just jumps from side to side on any issue, and most of all the unsaid apparent assumption on her part that somehow America owes her....it is scary. May be this is what fear of unknown is. She has been in political and media highlights for so long yet nothing is known about her.

And that may open up the opportunity for Sanders. The guy who says all ills are because wall street did them. Idiotic but in this circus of detestables, hatables and abhorrables, the least unlikable seems to be his detestation hate and abhorrence!

Unless there is a miracle, such as Romney or Bloomberg jumping in and winning, we are in for some rough times. May be Kasich has a point


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## anon45

Tiger Genie said:


> I have been enjoying these circus shows. But yesterday it seemed Trump completely lost control. He was not even coherent which means Bush and Rubio got under his skin.
> 
> Frankly Bush seems to be a decent guy and Rubio a capable guy. Kasich has a decent record. In anyother election these three would have provided ample choice and thoughtful debates but with the blowhard Trump and the nutjob Cruz, everyone has been diminished. In what should have been an easy victory for the Republican nominee to next presidency, Trump has managed to even the field for the democrats.
> 
> Hilary Clinton presidency seems the scariest idea. She has so far struck me as standing for nothing, believing in nothing and liking nothing. I ask myself what I don't like about her - I cannot think of a single idea she has expressed for me to like or dislike. But her style, the ease with which she just jumps from side to side on any issue, and most of all the unsaid apparent assumption on her part that somehow America owes her....it is scary. May be this is what fear of unknown is. She has been in political and media highlights for so long yet nothing is known about her.
> 
> And that may open up the opportunity for Sanders. The guy who says all ills are because wall street did them. Idiotic but in this circus of detestables, hatables and abhorrables, the least unlikable seems to be his detestation hate and abhorrence!
> 
> Unless there is a miracle, such as Romney or Bloomberg jumping in and winning, we are in for some rough times. May be Kasich has a point



funny, I think the opposite when i think of Hillary and Sanders. Hillary is the centrist candidate and is one of the few candidates that has the ability to reach across the isle both due to perception and actual experience. She isn't the best candidate, but compared to the extremists (on the American political spectrum) of Trump and Sanders, she is the better choice, and imo the likely winner.

Sanders would essentially be a dead presidency, as congress would shut down any and all of his domestic initiatives. I mean just look at Obama, and people expect Sanders to do better? His views would literally require a sea change in congressional politics and people, and I haven't heard him provide any support or even just point to any new senators or congressmen who would support his ideas. He basically isn't planning the change that Washington would actually need to get his plans passed. Change in Washington doesn't come with a president, it comes with Congress (which makes me laugh when presidential candidates say they will change Washington and people believe them) The President isn't a dictator, he can't rule by fiat. I'm not even sure if Sanders has a roadmap in place beyond the talk.

I'm not even going to bother with Trump, both Sanders and Trump are demagogues as far as I can see. Hillary lacks the charm that Bill Clinton had, but still she is the best candidate for president of those 3.

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## F-22Raptor

Trump was an embarrassment last night. Talk about a clownshow...

I'm not a huge fan of Clinton, but given her wealth of experience I can tolerate her for 4 years.

Rubio and Kasich seem to be the only Republicans with any sense. Unfortunately, their being drowned out by nuts like Trump and Cruz.

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## Tiger Genie

anon45 said:


> funny, I think the opposite when i think of Hillary and Sanders. Hillary is the centrist candidate and is one of the few candidates that has the ability to reach across the isle both due to perception and actual experience. She isn't the best candidate, but compared to the extremists (on the American political spectrum) of Trump and Sanders, she is the better choice, and imo the likely winner.
> 
> Sanders would essentially be a dead presidency, as congress would shut down any and all of his domestic initiatives. I mean just look at Obama, and people expect Sanders to do better? His views would literally require a sea change in congressional politics and people, and I haven't heard him provide any support or even just point to any new senators or congressmen who would support his ideas. He basically isn't planning the change that Washington would actually need to get his plans passed. Change in Washington doesn't come with a president, it comes with Congress (which makes me laugh when presidential candidates say they will change Washington and people believe them) The President isn't a dictator, he can't rule by fiat. I'm not even sure if Sanders has a roadmap in place beyond the talk.
> 
> I'm not even going to bother with Trump, both Sanders and Trump are demagogues as far as I can see. Hillary lacks the charm that Bill Clinton had, but still she is the best candidate for president of those 3.




It is possible that the criticism of Hilary is somewhat unfair given her history with Clinton but lacking information (which they guard very secretively) it is impossible to not extrapolate. iMO she doesn't come of as a person who can lead anything. A person that just sways with the wind will be dangerous to the world.


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## Piper

F-22Raptor said:


> Trump was an embarrassment last night. Talk about a clownshow...
> 
> I'm not a huge fan of Clinton, but given her wealth of experience I can tolerate her for 4 years.
> 
> Rubio and Kasich seem to be the only Republicans with any sense. Unfortunately, their being drowned out by nuts like Trump and Cruz.



It is all but confirmed that Trump is going to be the Republican nominee and Hillary the democrat nominee. Trump because Ted Cruz is a fanatic, Rubio got destroyed, Kasich too mild and almost certain to drop out along Carson after SC. Hillary because she has the super delegates almost all of them with her along with a major chunk of Black and Latino vote.

Among Hillary and Trump it is a no Brainer specially considering how the demographic profile of US has changed and the complete weight of establishment against Trump. Even the GOP leaders are gonna pitch in for Hillary rather than Trumo

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## PDF

I support Bernie Sanders from Democrats and Jeb Bush from Republicans.


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## F-22Raptor

Piper said:


> It is all but confirmed that Trump is going to be the Republican nominee and Hillary the democrat nominee. Trump because Ted Cruz is a fanatic, Rubio got destroyed, Kasich too mild and almost certain to drop out along Carson after SC. Hillary because she has the super delegates almost all of them with her along with a major chunk of Black and Latino vote.
> 
> Among Hillary and Trump it is a no Brainer specially considering how the demographic profile of US has changed and the complete weight of establishment against Trump. Even the GOP leaders are gonna pitch in for Hillary rather than Trumo



Agreed, I still think Hillary is the favorite to win in November.

BTW, welcome to PDF!


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## AMDR

I just hope it isn't Trump vs. Sanders, where either way we are stuck with a loon for 4 years. I would take almost anyone else but those two.

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## libertycall

I don't think the Republicans will choose Trump. I'm guessing it will be Rubio.

The Democrat leadership will try and impose Hillary which is going to lead to a major rupture with a large number of Democrats.


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## 24 Hours

libertycall said:


> I don't think the Republicans will choose Trump. I'm guessing it will be Rubio.
> 
> The Democrat leadership will try and impose Hillary which is going to lead to a major rupture with a large number of Democrats.


I think Cruz has a much better base with Republicans than Rubio. Though there is certainly a split with Democrats, a lot of Sanders supporters are not necessarily registered Democrats, same with Trump supporters.

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## libertycall

SHK said:


> I think Cruz has a much better base with Republicans than Rubio. Though there is certainly a split with Democrats, a lot of Sanders supporters are not necessarily registered Democrats, same with Trump supporters.



Cruz has a much stronger support base among the European Christian extremists. 

I think that may lead to the majority opposing Cruz out of worries that this will coalesce against him all those people (including women worried about abortion rights) opposed to a Christian extremist as President. 

Sanders will be rejected by Democrat leaders, which will lead to lots of protests until he will appear in public and ask people to unite behind Hilary yadda yadda yadda.


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## T-72M1

Poll: South Carolina still solidly for Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton - CBS News


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## RabzonKhan

It’s good to see that the majority of us agree that Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders are not competent to lead our country.

Bty, Trump was the biggest loser in the debate, every time he opened his mouth he was booed loudly, serves him right.













*FULL CBS GOP Debate, 9th Republican Presidential Debate 
February 13, 2016 in South Carolina


*


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## F-22Raptor

CNN projects that Hillary Clinton has won Nevada.

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## JanjaWeed

Damn...another massive win for Donald Trump. GOP in disarray. They need to trim the field & get behind one establishment candidate if they want Trump out of the way. Get Bush, Kasich & Carson to pack their bags...& put all their might behind Marco Rubio... But I still think Cruz will play spoilsport, leaving a easy path for Trump.


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## F-22Raptor

Trump wins South Carolina. Bush has officially suspended his campaign.

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## T-72M1

can't stump the Trump.


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## raptor22

What about the other parties' candidates?


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## F-22Raptor

Trump wins Nevada.


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## T-72M1

Nevada Republican caucuses live: Donald Trump wins in record turnout | US news | The Guardian


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## F-22Raptor

Based on current polls, I think we're looking at a Trump vs Clinton general election.

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## Dalit

As predicted, Trump goes on to win another one. The conservative American voter is angry and humiliating the GOP top brass as well as the mainstream GOP candidates. Who could have thought that Trump could win anything. Let's see whether he delivers on his Mexican and Muslim rhetoric. That is the day I'll call this guy a man of his word.

Here is another prediction. Trump is going to own Hillary. The world is going to see a lot of bloodshed and wars under the leadership of Trump.


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## Black Mamba1

Never thought that Trump will be the final candidate of Republicans . Totally unexpected. Tough time ahead for Americans and the world


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## Irfan Baloch

F-22Raptor said:


> Trump wins Nevada.


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## anon45

Black Mamba1 said:


> Never thought that Trump will be the final candidate of Republicans . Totally unexpected. Tough time ahead for Americans and the world



I'm surprised iat the likelihood of it happening, simply because I didn't think the far right were such a large part of the Republican party today. That said I'm still confident he will not win against Hillary in the general.

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## Aepsilons

F-22Raptor said:


> Based on current polls, I think we're looking at a Trump vs Clinton general election.



I think so, too.



anon45 said:


> I'm surprised iat the likelihood of it happening, simply because I didn't think the far right were such a large part of the Republican party today. That said I'm still confident he will not win against Hillary in the general.



Don't be so sure, Anon, my boy. The pundits said the same thing about him in regards to performance in the primaries some 8 weeks ago.


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## anon45

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I think so, too.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be so sure, Anon, my boy. The pundits said the same thing about him in regards to performance in the primaries some 8 weeks ago.



Of course we will see, but until proven otherwise I cannot believe this demagogue will step foot in the white house. He would have to show a completely and heretofore unrevealed side of himself in the general election to change my opinion.


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## Aepsilons

anon45 said:


> Of course we will see, but until proven otherwise I cannot believe this demagogue will step foot in the white house. He would have to show a completely and heretofore unrevealed side of himself in the genera election to change my opinion.



why the term 'demagogue' ? try to be impartial, my american colleague. let the voters decide and on that basis, make conclusions. jeb learned that the hard way, i mean, in the end, 'we the people' draws strength and legitimacy on the voters, right?


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## Piper

Nihonjin1051 said:


> why the term 'demagogue' ? try to be impartial, my american colleague. let the voters decide and on that basis, make conclusions. jeb learned that the hard way, i mean, in the end, 'we the people' draws strength and legitimacy on the voters, right?



I prefer guided democracy 

Let's be real now - The current demographics of USA makes it highly unlikely that Trump will be a President. He appeals to certain subset of US population who happen to be dominant in Republican party. The real fun will start after the primaries are done with.


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## Aepsilons

Piper said:


> I prefer guided democracy
> 
> Let's be real now - The current demographics of USA makes it highly unlikely that Trump will be a President. He appeals to certain subset of US population who happen to be dominant in Republican party. The real fun will start after the primaries are done with.



Don't make predictions too soon, my dear. Come on, seriously, 46% of republican voters in Nevada alone? Not only that -- he captured majority of the latino votes , lol. There goes the liberal media's portrayal of his anti-latino-ism. 

As for guided democracy, lol, yes. I will let you believe in what you want.


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## Piper

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Don't make predictions too soon, my dear. Come on, seriously, 46% of republican voters in Nevada alone? Not only that -- he captured majority of the latino votes , lol. There goes the liberal media's portrayal of his anti-latino-ism.
> 
> As for guided democracy, lol, yes. I will let you believe in what you want.



To be honest, the liberal in me is a little twitchy and my words were mostly meant more as a statement of self reassurance than proving any point to you


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## Aepsilons

Piper said:


> To be honest, the liberal in me is a little twitchy and my words were mostly meant more as a self reassurance than proving any point to you



a liberal eh? oh mah gawd. lol.


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## Piper

Nihonjin1051 said:


> a liberal eh? oh mah gawd. lol.


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## anon45

Nihonjin1051 said:


> why the term 'demagogue' ? try to be impartial, my american colleague. let the voters decide and on that basis, make conclusions. jeb learned that the hard way, i mean, in the end, 'we the people' draws strength and legitimacy on the voters, right?



The voters will decide sure, and I think they will decide Hillary is better suited than Trump, but i'm entitled to my opinion of him until he changes his tune. Everything I've read or heard him state has been simply bad policy or pie in the sky crap that anyone with any knowledge of politics would know is crap just said to whip up the masses, just like Bernie Sanders imo, who is another side of the same coin. 

I think Trump is wedded to how he acts (or is) now, which is to say someone who would be dangerous in the white house due to his impulsiveness.

Basically he is a bit too close to Erdogan on the 'leader' spectrum for my liking.


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## Aepsilons

anon45 said:


> Everything I've read or heard him state has been simply bad policy



Bad policy, in my opinion, was Benghazi , as well as the emails.



anon45 said:


> The voters will decide sure, and I think they will decide Hillary is better suited than Trump, but i'm entitled to my opinion of him until he changes his tune. Everything I've read or heard him state has been simply bad policy or pie in the sky crap that anyone with any knowledge of politics would know is crap just said to whip up the masses, just like Bernie Sanders imo, who is another side of the same coin.
> 
> I think Trump is wedded to how he acts (or is) now, which is to say someone who would be dangerous in the white house due to his impulsiveness.
> 
> Basically he is a bit too close to Erdogan on the 'leader' spectrum for my liking.



Let 'we the people' make the decision. Render conclusion after the primaries, and closer to the general elections. 

Other than that is just bad positioning.


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## anon45

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Bad policy, in my opinion, was Benghazi , as well as the emails.
> 
> 
> 
> Let 'we the people' make the decision. Render conclusion after the primaries, and closer to the general elections.
> 
> Other than that is just bad positioning.



The e-mail scandal is definitely very bad yes, but if she hasn't been indicted then I have to trust there are extenuating circumstances or otherwise it was not a major deal.

I'm not saying Hillary is a great candidate, but she is better than Bernie or Trump in terms of what she can do in the White House. She also has lots of experience in the political arena and foreign policy, so it would likely be more nuanced, more pragmatic, and less ideological than either Trump or Bernie. I'm hoping there is a decrease in partisanship should she win, though I understand that is likely a fool's dream.


Where's the fun in waiting until the general? 

Anyways it will be interesting to see the contrast, if any, in how he acts in the primary to how he acts in the general.


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## Aepsilons

anon45 said:


> The e-mail scandal is definitely very bad yes, but if she hasn't been indicted then I have to trust there are extenuating circumstances or otherwise it was not a major deal.
> 
> I'm not saying Hillary is a great candidate, but she is better than Bernie or Trump in terms of what she can do in the White House. She also has lots of experience in the political arena and foreign policy, so it would likely be more nuanced, more pragmatic, and less ideological than either Trump or Bernie. I'm hoping there is a decrease in partisanship should she win, though I understand that is likely a fool's dream.
> 
> 
> Where's the fun in waiting until the general?
> 
> Anyways it will be interesting to see the contrast, if any, in how he acts in the primary to how he acts in the general.



lol, you intrigue me, anon.


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## Dalit

Trump winning three in a row reflects the ugly mindset and sentiment among many Americans. From silly wronged red necks to actually well-educated Americans and now even minority Hispanics joining the ranks to support the lunatic. It couldn't get more crazier. This country is badly divided and not for the good reasons I'm afraid. Also, the blind support Trump is receiving from many Americans due to his extremely racist and prejudice views is beyond believable. They don't even hide it anymore. His supporters actually term it as Trump speaking the truth, being honest and politically correct. How screwed up is that for an argument. Sanity has just exited planet earth.

Just for a frightening moment imagine Trump winning the general elections... Will he really go through with his Mexican and Muslim rhetoric? If he doesn't he is just a liar like the rest. If he does everyone can fill in the blanks. It is an absolute lose lose situation.

All the Americans need to do now is to elect the bigot which will truly see their popularity graph all over the globe go down the drain if it hasn't already. Like as if the world isn't already puzzled how the bigot is able to win so convincingly. Trump is the last drop in the bucket so to speak. I can see liberal Americans migrating to other places when Trump becomes in charge. It is a terrible prospect in the making. Trump is a lose cannon for the Americans. That is to put it mildly.

They blamed the liberals for worshipping Obama as their savior and prophet at the time being. Well, the KKK red necks and other mostly "white" Trump supporters have found their savior and prophet in the shape of Trump. That is to say, their blonde haired and outspoken white knight ready to rescue the USA from all the evils and problems surrounding it.

Fascinating and finger licking good stuff though for an outsider like me...


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## F-22Raptor

anon45 said:


> I'm surprised iat the likelihood of it happening, simply because I didn't think the far right were such a large part of the Republican party today. That said I'm still confident he will not win against Hillary in the general.



If Hillary can get a high turnout in November she will win. Demographics favor her, she just has to get voters to the polls.

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## RabzonKhan

Trump’s victory in Nevada shows the inability of the mainstream Republican Party, what a shame.

I’m quite hopeful that in the general election this moron will be defeated.

In almost 40, Hillary versus Trump polls, Hillary wins:

RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Clinton


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## Desertfalcon

I am a conservative (Republican), but I am NOT a supporter of Mr. Trump. I am as baffled to some extent, as everyone else as to his success thus far. I kept telling myself that surely this megalomaniacal jackass will self-destruct at some point, but he is made of Teflon. The more bombastic his rhetoric, the more popular he becomes. He *WILL* be the Republican nominee for president. I think he is unstoppable at this point. I hope F-22 Raptor is right in that my country's demographics are against Trump in a general election, but I have to say, the same people saying that are the same people, (Um, like me. ) who have gotten this wrong from the beginning. Trump has tapped into an anger the American people feel, regardless of class or race, religion or background. He has been winning across the board. It's easy to say he's racist but even last night; which Republican won the Hispanic vote in Nevada? Trump. He's won most of the admittedly small, minority votes in the GOP primaries. Indeed, he is the ONLY Republican who scores highest in the polls, in urban areas. He’s winning everyone from the college educated, to red necks, from social liberals, to evangelical Protestants. 

At least half, if not more, of the American people have grown sick and tired of politics as usual, of Federal over-reach, of unchecked illegal immigration, of free trade that they think hurts American business and ships jobs overseas, of sending aid and selling arms to countries that hate us, of not striking more aggressively, at our enemies. 

Personally, I think he will be a constant embarrassment as president, but I'm starting to think it is a possibility. Mrs. Clinton is hardly inspiring. She is widely considered less than honest and has been constantly surrounded by scandal. Time will tell...

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## XenoEnsi-14

I'm just waiting for people to find out Ted Cruz is born in Canada... oops


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## waz

Do remember folks the whole "Hispanic" vote was from the minority of Hispanics who vote republican, not the majority who are democrats and loath Trump.
I hope Hilary wins and she has the numbers on her side, that said, Trump will be the Republican nominee.


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## Desertfalcon

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> I'm just waiting for people to find out Ted Cruz is born in Canada... oops


I think pretty much everyone knows that by now. Isn't the first time. Sen. John McCain was born in Panama, after all.



waz said:


> Do remember folks the whole "Hispanic" vote was from the minority of Hispanics who vote republican, not the majority who are democrats and loath Trump.


Yup, that is why I specifically pointed that out in my comments. Nevertheless, among Republicans, he still polls higher with minorities than anyone else in the field. He has a "working-class" appeal that other Republicans just can't match.

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## Dalit

Desertfalcon said:


> I am a conservative (Republican), but I am NOT a supporter of Mr. Trump. I am as baffled to some extent, as everyone else as to his success thus far. I kept telling myself that surely this megalomaniacal jackass will self-destruct at some point, but he is made of Teflon. The more bombastic his rhetoric, the more popular he becomes. He *WILL* be the Republican nominee for president. I think he is unstoppable at this point. I hope F-22 Raptor is right in that my country's demographics are against Trump in a general election, but I have to say, the same people saying that are the same people, (Um, like me. ) who have gotten this wrong from the beginning. Trump has tapped into an anger the American people feel, regardless of class or race, religion or background. He has been winning across the board. It's easy to say he's racist but even last night; which Republican won the Hispanic vote in Nevada? Trump. He's won most of the admittedly small, minority votes in the GOP primaries. Indeed, he is the ONLY Republican who scores highest in the polls, in urban areas. He’s winning everyone from the college educated, to red necks, from social liberals, to evangelical Protestants.
> 
> At least half, if not more, of the American people have grown sick and tired of politics as usual, of Federal over-reach, of unchecked illegal immigration, of free trade that they think hurts American business and ships jobs overseas, of sending aid and selling arms to countries that hate us, of not striking more aggressively, at our enemies.
> 
> Personally, I think he will be a constant embarrassment as president, but I'm starting to think it is a possibility. Mrs. Clinton is hardly inspiring. She is widely considered less than honest and has been constantly surrounded by scandal. Time will tell...



That is exactly how it is. Trump is now going to win the GOP nomination. The Republican party is being punished by the conservative voters. Trump is also most likely going to win the general elections. It is a terrifying thought, but it isn't unlikely anymore at this point and time. I just don't see Hillary winning it.

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## RabzonKhan

waz said:


> Do remember folks the whole "Hispanic" vote was from the minority of Hispanics who vote republican, not the majority who are democrats and loath Trump.
> I hope Hilary wins and she has the numbers on her side, that said, Trump will be the Republican nominee.


You are right, only 7% Latinos voted for him, well, you always have idiots.

Bty, I have come across many Trump supporters who are too ashamed to openly admit that they support the moron, that says a lot.

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## waz

RabzonKhan said:


> You are right, only 7% Latinos voted for him, well, you always have idiots.
> 
> Bty, I have come across many Trump supporters who are too ashamed to openly admit that they support the moron, that says a lot.



Lol, that says it all i.e. being embarrassed by your own candidate. 

By the way bro, you sure look so much like one of the characters of an all time favourite show of mine CHIPS.






God bless the USA. 






Childhood memories sighs......



Desertfalcon said:


> Yup, that is why I specifically pointed that out in my comments. Nevertheless, among Republicans, he still polls higher with minorities than anyone else in the field. He has a "working-class" appeal that other Republicans just can't match.



I have faith in you guys.

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## AMDR

If Republicans were smart they would vote for a Rubio/Kaisch combo. Atleast that way they would actually have a good chance in the general election. 

If Trump goes up against Hillary in the general election he will flat out lose, badly. He simply does not attract that moderate or independent vote.

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## RabzonKhan

*Delegate count:*


Democrats need 2383 to win.

Republicans 1237 to win.


So far,

Hillary Clinton has 505 delegates.

Bernie Sanders has only 71.


On the Republican side,

Trump has 82 delegates.

Cruz 17.

Rubio 16.

Kasich 6.

Carson 4.


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## T-72M1

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## F-22Raptor

Rubio utterly destroyed Trump tonight. Where was that 2 months ago? I would support a Rubio/Kasich ticket.


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## T-72M1

Prof: Odds Of President Trump 97% To 99% | The Daily Caller


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## anon45

T-72M1 said:


> Prof: Odds Of President Trump 97% To 99% | The Daily Caller


I didn't know that professor was 122 years old


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## T-72M1

anon45 said:


> I didn't know that professor was 122 years old


----------



## Zabaniyah

Dalit said:


> Trump winning three in a row reflects the ugly mindset and sentiment among many Americans. From silly wronged red necks to actually well-educated Americans and now even minority Hispanics joining the ranks to support the lunatic. It couldn't get more crazier. This country is badly divided and not for the good reasons I'm afraid. Also, the blind support Trump is receiving from many Americans due to his extremely racist and prejudice views is beyond believable. They don't even hide it anymore. His supporters actually term it as Trump speaking the truth, being honest and politically correct. How screwed up is that for an argument. Sanity has just exited planet earth.
> 
> Just for a frightening moment imagine Trump winning the general elections... Will he really go through with his Mexican and Muslim rhetoric? If he doesn't he is just a liar like the rest. If he does everyone can fill in the blanks. It is an absolute lose lose situation.
> 
> All the Americans need to do now is to elect the bigot which will truly see their popularity graph all over the globe go down the drain if it hasn't already. Like as if the world isn't already puzzled how the bigot is able to win so convincingly. Trump is the last drop in the bucket so to speak. I can see liberal Americans migrating to other places when Trump becomes in charge. It is a terrible prospect in the making. Trump is a lose cannon for the Americans. That is to put it mildly.
> 
> They blamed the liberals for worshipping Obama as their savior and prophet at the time being. Well, the KKK red necks and other mostly "white" Trump supporters have found their savior and prophet in the shape of Trump. That is to say, their blonde haired and outspoken white knight ready to rescue the USA from all the evils and problems surrounding it.
> 
> Fascinating and finger licking good stuff though for an outsider like me...



Fascinating indeed. Trump is no idiot. Yet, his supporters and activists are... The man knows how to tap into people's sentiments (mostly negative). I'm not sure if that is a good or a bad thing. But usually it is bad.

One thing is for certain though. Though on opposite sides of the coin, both Trump and Sanders are isolationists. The intend to make the USA more isolated from global geopolitics. And even if either do not make it to the Oval Office, their campaigns and politics that surrounded them would have a profound impact on the USA in being the most powerful nation in the world.That is one thing that Trump supporters do not understand. 

That being said, there will be a growing power vacuum in the midst of the murky state of world affairs. There will be scary and uncertain times ahead. That is for certain. It'll be every man for himself.

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## T-72M1

Loki said:


> murky state of world affairs


and that's why Trump would be great, he's called out both Bush and Obama/Clinton for their poor handling of the middle east, talked about the Saudi hand in 9/11 (15/19 hijackers were saudi nationals),and that supporting these so called rebels in Syria is a bad idea and he would rather work with Putin and clear the jihadists than start WW3 over Syria.

I'm amazed a US presidential candidate is talking about stuff like this, a republican no less, and he's resonating with the people !

The muslim ban thing was very unpleasant and completely disgusting imo but that was just him playing to the far right to get that vote and carve a hardcore niche for himself.... but I don't think he's a racist, politics is ugly but the stakes are the highest when it comes to US politics.

He's a very smart guy, think he might surprise a few people.


----------



## Desertfalcon

F-22Raptor said:


> Rubio utterly destroyed Trump tonight. Where was that 2 months ago? I would support a Rubio/Kasich ticket.


I support Rubio now, but it's too late. Rubio will loose his home state to Trump in a landslide on Super Tues. Trump WILL be the GOP nominee.

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## Aepsilons

Desertfalcon said:


> I support Rubio now, but it's too late. Rubio will loose his home state to Trump in a landslide on Super Tues. Trump WILL be the GOP nominee.



It appears so.

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## RabzonKhan

*CNN GOP Republican Presidential Debate Feb 25,2016*





Rubio won the debate, it was a horrible night for Trump, in every exchange, Rubio came on top.

Here is one such exchange, Rubio repeatedly asked Trump to explain his healthcare plan, it was quite embarrassing moment for Trump. It was quite clear, Trump has no healthcare plan, he could only come up with his typical one-liner statements, Note, in 2014, US healthcare spending was almost $3 trillion.

RUBIO: You may not be aware of this, Donald, because you don't follow this stuff very closely, but here's what happened.When they passed Obamacare they put a bailout fund in Obamacare. All these lobbyists you keep talking about, they put a bailout fund in the law that would allow public money to be used, taxpayer money, to bail out companies when they lost money.

And, we led the effort and wiped out that bailout fund.The insurance companies are not in favor of me, they hate that. They're suing that now to get that bailout money put back in.

Here's what you didn't hear in that answer, and this isimportant guys, this is an important thing. What is your plan? I understand the lines around the state, whatever that means. This is not a game where you draw maps...

TRUMP: ... And, you don't know what it means...

RUBIO: ... What is your plan, Mr. Trump?

(APPLAUSE)

RUBIO: What is your plan on healthcare?

TRUMP: You don't know.

BASH: (inaudible)

TRUMP: ... The biggest problem...

(CROSSTALK)

RUBIO: ... What's your plan...

TRUMP: ... The biggest problem, I'll have you know...

RUBIO: ... What's your plan...

TRUMP: ... You know, I watched him meltdown two weeks ago with Chris Christie. I got to tell you, the biggest problem he's got is he really doesn't know about the lines. The biggest thing we've got, and the reason we've got no competition, is because we have lines around the state, and you have essentially....

RUBIO: ... We already mentioned that (inaudible) plan, I know what that is, but what else is part of your plan...

TRUMP: ... You don't know much...

RUBIO: ... So, you're only thing is to get rid of the lines around the states. What else is part of your healthcare plan...

TRUMP: ... The lines around the states...

RUBIO: ... That's your only plan...

TRUMP: ... and, it was almost done -- not now...

RUBIO: ... Alright, (inaudible)...

TRUMP: ... Excuse me. Excuse me.

RUBIO: ... His plan. That was the plan...

TRUMP: ... You get rid of the lines, it brings in competition. So, instead of having one insurance company taking care of New York, or Texas, you'll have many. They'll compete, and it'll be a beautiful thing.

RUBIO: Alright...

(APPLAUSE)

*RUBIO: So, that's the only part of the plan? Just the lines?*

TRUMP: The nice part of the plan -- you'll have many different plans. You'll have competition, you'll have so many different plans.

*RUBIO: Now he's repeating himself.*

TRUMP: No, no, no.

(LAUGHTER) (APPLAUSE) (CHEERING)

(CHEERING)

TRUMP: (inaudible) I watched him repeat himself five times four weeks ago... RUBIO: ... I just watched you repeat yourself five times five seconds ago...

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: I watched him meltdown on the stage like that, I've never seen it in anybody...

BASH: ... Let's stay focused on the subject...

TRUMP: ... I thought he came out of the swimming pool...

*RUBIO: ... I see him repeat himself every night, he says five things, everyone's dumb, he's gonna make America great again...*

*RUBIO: ... We're going to win, win win, he's winning in the polls...

RUBIO: ... And the lines around the state.*

(APPLAUSE)

RUBIO: ... Every night.

(CHEERING)

BASH: Senator Rubio, you will have time to respond if you would just let Mr. Trump respond to what you've just posed to him...

RUBIO: ... Yeah, he's going to give us his plan now, right? OK...

BASH: ... If you could talk a little bit more about your plan. I know you talked about...

TRUMP: ... We're going to have many different plans because...

BASH: ... *Can you be a little specific...*

TRUMP: ... competition...

RUBIO: ... He's done it again.

(CHEERING) (APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: There is going to be competition among all of the states, and the insurance companies. They're going to have many, many different plans. BASH: Is there anything else you would like to add to that...

TRUMP: No, there's nothing to add.

(CHEERING) (APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: What is to add?  (There you have it folks, $3 trillion healthcare budget explained in 10 words)


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## F-22Raptor

Hillary wins South Carolina.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## anon45

F-22Raptor said:


> Hillary wins South Carolina.


She absolutely crushed Sanders.


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## Aepsilons




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## RabzonKhan

* Winner*






Hillary won South Carolina Democratic primary.

Hillary Clinton 271,514...........73.5%

Bernie Sanders 95,977...........26.0%

As expected, Hillary won 84% of black votes, and won all women voters by 58 points.


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## RabzonKhan

Was Trump’s dad member of the KKK?

*




*

*Why Won't Donald Trump Repudiate the Ku Klux Klan?

The Republican frontrunner repeatedly declined to renounce the support of white supremacists—reinforcing questions about his rhetoric.*


YONI APPELBAUM

On Sunday, CNN’s Jake Tapper asked Trump whether he’d repudiate the support of David Duke, the former Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, or “other white supremacists.” Trump evaded the question:


*Donald Trump: Well, I have to look at the group. I mean, I don’t know what group you’re talking about. You wouldn’t want me to condemn a group that I know nothing about. I’d have to look. If you would send me a list of the groups, I will do research on them, and certainly I would disavow if I thought that there was something wrong.

Jake Tapper: The Ku Klux Klan…

Trump: But you may have some groups in there that are totally fine, and it would be very unfair. So, give me a list of groups and I’ll let you know.

Tapper: Okay, I’m just talking about David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan here but…

Trump: Honestly, I don’t know David Duke. I don’t believe I’ve ever met him. I’m pretty sure I didn’t meet him, and I just don’t know anything about him.*

In 2000, Trump was unambiguous about condemning the intolerance of the Reform Party, because it “now includes a Klansman, Mr. Duke, a neo-Nazi, Mr. Buchanan, and a communist, Ms. Fulani,” he said. “This is not company I wish to keep.'' On Friday, Trump was asked about Duke’s support, and replied, “I disavow him, OK?” But somehow, by Sunday, he’d forgotten both who Duke was, and how repellent his ideology is.
Most historians separate the Klan into three distinct movements. The first was a terrorist insurgency that flourished after the Civil War. The third was active in the civil-rights era, and is the direct progenitor of Duke’s group and other Klan factions that are still active today. Both of those groups were most active in the former Confederate states, and made the violent enforcement of inequality and segregation their primary aim. The second Klan, though, was something else. In the 1920s, it enrolled millions of members, crusading for the restoration of a white, Christian, Protestant America—targeting Catholics and Jews as well as blacks, and enjoying particular popularity in the lower Midwest.

It even caught on in the cosmopolitan entrepôt of New York City. In 1927, Klansmen planned their first open parade, in Jamaica, Queens. Alerted to the plan by the editor of a Catholic paper, the police commissioner issued an order against wearing Klan regalia. The Klan defied that order, appearing clad in white robes and hoods in a Memorial Day parade.

It gave its versions of events in a handbill, which read, in part:


*Liberty and democracy have been trampled upon when native born Protestant Americans dare to organize to protect one flag, the American flag; one school, the public school; and one language, the English language; also when they march peaceably through the streets in honor of their forefathers.

We charge that the Roman Catholic police force did deliberately precipitate a riot and did tear down American flags and did unmercifully beat and club defenseless Americans who conducted themselves as gentlemen under trying circumstances.*


It’s hard not to hear echoes of this rhetoric of the 1920s in the current presidential campaign. There’s the anxiety about immigration; the fear that white, Protestant culture is being displaced; the rallying around patriotic symbols; the appeals to a mythic past.

*Seven men were arrested by the New York police that day, according to a New York Times report. There’s no proof that any were Klansmen; they might’ve been bystanders, or entirely innocent. Six were charged; one was released. As BoingBoing first noted, that man was listed as having the same name and address as Donald Trump’s father: Fred Trump.*


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## anon45

RabzonKhan said:


> * Winner*
> View attachment 295814
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary won South Carolina Democratic primary.
> 
> Hillary Clinton 271,514...........73.5%
> 
> Bernie Sanders 95,977...........26.0%
> 
> As expected, Hillary won 84% of black votes, and won all women voters by 58 points.



Just a note, High estimates were for her to beat Sanders by 25, not 50. beating Sanders by 50 was unexpected.


----------



## RabzonKhan

anon45 said:


> Just a note, High estimates were for her to beat Sanders by 25, not 50. beating Sanders by 50 was unexpected.


That was truly a landslide, we needed that, and hopefully after the Super Tuesday contests, Mr. Bernie can pack his bags so the Hillary campaign can focus on the Republican rivals.


----------



## Dalit

RabzonKhan said:


> *CNN GOP Republican Presidential Debate Feb 25,2016*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rubio won the debate, it was a horrible night for Trump, in every exchange, Rubio came on top.
> 
> Here is one such exchange, Rubio repeatedly asked Trump to explain his healthcare plan, it was quite embarrassing moment for Trump. It was quite clear, Trump has no healthcare plan, he could only come up with his typical one-liner statements, Note, in 2014, US healthcare spending was almost $3 trillion.
> 
> RUBIO: You may not be aware of this, Donald, because you don't follow this stuff very closely, but here's what happened.When they passed Obamacare they put a bailout fund in Obamacare. All these lobbyists you keep talking about, they put a bailout fund in the law that would allow public money to be used, taxpayer money, to bail out companies when they lost money.
> 
> And, we led the effort and wiped out that bailout fund.The insurance companies are not in favor of me, they hate that. They're suing that now to get that bailout money put back in.
> 
> Here's what you didn't hear in that answer, and this isimportant guys, this is an important thing. What is your plan? I understand the lines around the state, whatever that means. This is not a game where you draw maps...
> 
> TRUMP: ... And, you don't know what it means...
> 
> RUBIO: ... What is your plan, Mr. Trump?
> 
> (APPLAUSE)
> 
> RUBIO: What is your plan on healthcare?
> 
> TRUMP: You don't know.
> 
> BASH: (inaudible)
> 
> TRUMP: ... The biggest problem...
> 
> (CROSSTALK)
> 
> RUBIO: ... What's your plan...
> 
> TRUMP: ... The biggest problem, I'll have you know...
> 
> RUBIO: ... What's your plan...
> 
> TRUMP: ... You know, I watched him meltdown two weeks ago with Chris Christie. I got to tell you, the biggest problem he's got is he really doesn't know about the lines. The biggest thing we've got, and the reason we've got no competition, is because we have lines around the state, and you have essentially....
> 
> RUBIO: ... We already mentioned that (inaudible) plan, I know what that is, but what else is part of your plan...
> 
> TRUMP: ... You don't know much...
> 
> RUBIO: ... So, you're only thing is to get rid of the lines around the states. What else is part of your healthcare plan...
> 
> TRUMP: ... The lines around the states...
> 
> RUBIO: ... That's your only plan...
> 
> TRUMP: ... and, it was almost done -- not now...
> 
> RUBIO: ... Alright, (inaudible)...
> 
> TRUMP: ... Excuse me. Excuse me.
> 
> RUBIO: ... His plan. That was the plan...
> 
> TRUMP: ... You get rid of the lines, it brings in competition. So, instead of having one insurance company taking care of New York, or Texas, you'll have many. They'll compete, and it'll be a beautiful thing.
> 
> RUBIO: Alright...
> 
> (APPLAUSE)
> 
> *RUBIO: So, that's the only part of the plan? Just the lines?*
> 
> TRUMP: The nice part of the plan -- you'll have many different plans. You'll have competition, you'll have so many different plans.
> 
> *RUBIO: Now he's repeating himself.*
> 
> TRUMP: No, no, no.
> 
> (LAUGHTER) (APPLAUSE) (CHEERING)
> 
> (CHEERING)
> 
> TRUMP: (inaudible) I watched him repeat himself five times four weeks ago... RUBIO: ... I just watched you repeat yourself five times five seconds ago...
> 
> (APPLAUSE)
> 
> TRUMP: I watched him meltdown on the stage like that, I've never seen it in anybody...
> 
> BASH: ... Let's stay focused on the subject...
> 
> TRUMP: ... I thought he came out of the swimming pool...
> 
> *RUBIO: ... I see him repeat himself every night, he says five things, everyone's dumb, he's gonna make America great again...*
> 
> *RUBIO: ... We're going to win, win win, he's winning in the polls...
> 
> RUBIO: ... And the lines around the state.*
> 
> (APPLAUSE)
> 
> RUBIO: ... Every night.
> 
> (CHEERING)
> 
> BASH: Senator Rubio, you will have time to respond if you would just let Mr. Trump respond to what you've just posed to him...
> 
> RUBIO: ... Yeah, he's going to give us his plan now, right? OK...
> 
> BASH: ... If you could talk a little bit more about your plan. I know you talked about...
> 
> TRUMP: ... We're going to have many different plans because...
> 
> BASH: ... *Can you be a little specific...*
> 
> TRUMP: ... competition...
> 
> RUBIO: ... He's done it again.
> 
> (CHEERING) (APPLAUSE)
> 
> TRUMP: There is going to be competition among all of the states, and the insurance companies. They're going to have many, many different plans. BASH: Is there anything else you would like to add to that...
> 
> TRUMP: No, there's nothing to add.
> 
> (CHEERING) (APPLAUSE)
> 
> TRUMP: What is to add?  (There you have it folks, $3 trillion healthcare budget explained in 10 words)



Despite all this, Trump is currently leading in double digits in most states. Trump is going to crush the opposition coming Tuesday.


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## RabzonKhan

Dalit said:


> Despite all this, Trump is currently leading in double digits in most states. Trump is going to crush the opposition coming Tuesday.


Trump represents the worst of America, no matter what, his hard-core followers will keep on supporting him, all these dummies can hear is his promises to ban all Muslims from entering the US and building a wall on the Mexican US border.

His scapegoating of Mexicans and Muslims, and his fear driven appeals to angry Republican voters so far has been successful, but I’m pretty confident that it will not work in the general election.

Hillary has her shortcomings, but she is a far better candidate than Trump, and she is going to be our next president.


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## F-22Raptor

A new CNN poll has Clinton beating Trump by 8 points nationally.


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## DavidSling

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1711399892473323


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## RabzonKhan

*Republican Super Tuesday States & Delegate Counts (Today)*

The majority of the Super Tuesday states use the proportional method to award the delegates. Delegates are rewarded to multiple candidates based on the results. A candidate may not win a state but still has an opportunity to win some of the state’s delegates. The Colorado, North Dakota and Wyoming caucuses use the unbounded method of awarding delegates. The primaries on March 15 mark the beginning of the winner-take-all method that constitutes the majority of the remaining primaries.

*STATE......................DELEGATES*

Alabama..........................50

Alaska..............................28

Arkansas..........................40

Georgia............................76

Massachusetts.................42

Minnesota........................38

Oklahoma........................43

Tennessee.......................58

Texas..............................155

Vermont...........................16

Virginia.............................49

(Notes: Republicans in Colorado will also hold their caucus on Super Tuesday, but the outcome will have no impact on how the state allocates its 37 delegates. Wyoming Republicans have a long nominating process that starts with precinct caucuses on Super Tuesday, but doesn’t wrap up until the state party convention in April.

*Democratic Super Tuesday States & Delegate Counts*

Aside from the Colorado caucus, all theprimarieson the Democratic side use the proportional method to award the delegates. This is good news for the Sanders campaign. Althoughearly pollssuggest he is trailing in nearly every Super Tuesday state, he still has an opportunity to win delegates even if he does not win the state.

*STATE..............................DELEGATES*

Alabama...............................60

American Samoa..................10

Arkansas...............................37

Colorado...............................79

Georgia.................................116

Massachusetts......................116

Minnesota...............................93

Oklahoma...............................42

Tennessee..............................76

Texas.....................................252

Vermont...................................26

Virginia...................................110

Democrats abroad....................17

(Note: Democrats abroad can cast ballots between March 1 and March 8 in their“global primary.”)


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## RabzonKhan

*The Truth About Donald Trump*






*"Con artist"




*


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## Dalit

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 296000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump represents the worst of America, no matter what, his hard-core followers will keep on supporting him, all these dummies can hear is his promises to ban all Muslims from entering the US and building a wall on the Mexican US border.
> 
> His scapegoating of Mexicans and Muslims, and his fear driven appeals to angry Republican voters so far has been successful, but I’m pretty confident that it will not work in the general election.
> 
> Hillary has her shortcomings, but she is a far better candidate than Trump, and she is going to be our next president.



Polls suggest otherwise. It is going to be a very tight race in the general elections. Trump will snatch it. Believe it or not, he has enough Americans backing him to become the president of the USA. His anti-Muslim and anti-Mexican rhetoric is striking a chord with many Americans. There is no denying that. White America is angry and seeking vengeance. They have had enough of 8 years of African American rule as they put it. By coming this far Trump has already made a significant statement. His message is very clear. America must be reclaimed by white America. White angry Americans are on course of reclaiming America. They are lashing out at Trump rallies. It is for the entire world to witness. In the process, Trump has destroyed the Republican party to shreds and is now on path to take on Hillary. People are fooled when they believe that Hillary will survive against Trump. Hillary also belongs to the same elitist mainstream status qou like the conservative Republican candidates. That is how white angry Americans perceive Hillary. The world will be gobsmacked the day Trump becomes the president. Only a matter of time I'm afraid. Hate me for saying this, but Trump is what I term a by-product of US society. This ugly and intolerant sentiment has been brewing for decades. It is finally coming to frutition and the pundits are truly baffled. In short, Trump has exploited the worst of the worst. As it turns out, there is plenty of that.

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## Dalit

*Voters back Trump's Muslim ban*

*




Getty Images

A headline result from early exit poll data. Two-thirds of Republican primary voters in Texas, Virginia and Georgia, seven in 10 in Tennessee, and nearly eight in 10 in Alabama support Republican Donald Trump's proposal to temporarily ban all non-citizen Muslims from entering the United States.

But they are divided on another key Trump immigration pledge. In just one of the seven states where the question was asked, Alabama, did a majority of Republicans support deportation of immigrants already in the US illegally.
*
*US election 2016: Trump and Clinton battle for big wins on Super Tuesday - BBC News*

*Says it all...*


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## F-22Raptor

Clinton wins Georgia and Virginia. Sanders wins Vermont.


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## JanjaWeed

Super Tuesday looking good for Clinton & Trump. Hillary is nailed on to win democratic nomination. GOP is in a tricky situation. Cruz & Rubio are going to be neck & neck.. Neither of them going to suspend their campaign post Tuesday. This is going to work in Trump's favor. Establishment boy Rubio doomed...GOP is in disarray. Fox News will find itself in an embarrassing situation where they'll have to start cheerleading for Donald Trump. Oh yes..,I'm loving it!

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## F-22Raptor

Trump wins Georgia.


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## XenoEnsi-14




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## Armstrong

XenoEnsi-14 said:


>



Vote for Bernice Anders !

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## XenoEnsi-14

Armstrong said:


> Vote for Bernice Anders !


I've decided not to vote during the Primaries (apparently only circus clowns allowed to vote), so maybe will write in Bernie or vote Libertarian during the general election.

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## Armstrong

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> I've decided not to vote during the Primaries (apparently only circus clowns allowed to vote), so maybe will write in Bernie or vote Libertarian during the general election.



Take it from Palin, its not Bernie Sanders....its Bernice Anders !

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## XenoEnsi-14

Armstrong said:


> Take it from Palin, its not Bernie Sanders....its Bernice Anders !


She wishes he was a she.

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## F-22Raptor

Clinton wins Alabama and Tennessee. Trump wins Alabama, Tennessee, and Massachusetts.

Clinton wins Arkansas.

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## oprih

Vote for Trump!


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## F-22Raptor

Trump wins Virginia.


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## Desertfalcon

It's going to be a Trump/Clinton contest in the general election, like it or not.  God help us...


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## F-22Raptor

Clinton and Cruz win Texas.

Sanders wins Oklahoma.

Cruz wins Oklahoma


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## F-22Raptor

Trump wins Arkansas

Rubio wins Minnesota

Sanders wins Colorado and Minnesota

Clinton wins Massachusetts


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## T-72M1

Marco Rubio wins Minnesota
Hillary Clinton wins Alabama, American Samoa, Arkansas, Georgia, Massachusetts, Tennessee, Texas and Virginia
Bernie Sanders wins Colorado, Minnesota, Oklahoma and home state of Vermont (see video of his speech)
Trump wins Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Massachusetts, Tennessee and Virginia
Ted Cruz wins in Oklahoma and home state of Texas
Super Tuesday live: Trump and Clinton dominate but Cruz and Sanders pick up multiple wins | US news | The Guardian


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## 54ptu

After today I would call Turmpism a new religion in its early developing stage, as crazy as it sounds there is no better term to label it or theory to explain the strange things happening in front of our eyes.
Expect his supporter base keeps on snowballing, the way I see it poor Hillary stands no chance in october.


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## JanjaWeed

A London pub holds a cheeky poll to determine the least popular US Republican candidate #USElections2016


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## RabzonKhan

Delegate count: (After super Tuesday results)


Democrats need 2383 to win.

Republicans 1237 to win.

Hillary Clinton has 1,034 delegates.

Bernie Sanders has 408.



Trump has 316 delegates.

Cruz 226.

Rubio 106.

Kasich 25.

Carson 8.



Dalit said:


> Polls suggest otherwise. It is going to be a very tight race in the general elections. Trump will snatch it. Believe it or not, he has enough Americans backing him to become the president of the USA. His anti-Muslim and anti-Mexican rhetoric is striking a chord with many Americans.


Actually, out of the 46 national polls conducted so far, Hillary wins in 39, Trump wins 5 and 2 ties(Source). And in the latest CNN/ORC survey released on Tuesday (3/1/2016), Hillary again beats him with 8 points. Having said that, I agree it’s going to be a tough battle. 

In my opinion, Hillary can lose the elections, 

Major factors:

1. If there is a major terrorist attack in the US.
2. If the economy goes into recession.
3. If the voter turnout is low.
4. Hillary is save, with the Hispanic, black and younger voters, but how many whites vote for her will be very critical. 
5. Obama’s approval rating, since she has allied herself with him and support many of his policies.
6. Gas/petrol prices increase dramatically, since that can affect people’s budget and that can play in Trump’s favor.



> There is no denying that. White America is angry and seeking vengeance. They have had enough of 8 years of African American rule as they put it. By coming this far Trump has already made a significant statement. His message is very clear. America must be reclaimed by white America. White angry Americans are on course of reclaiming America. They are lashing out at Trump rallies. It is for the entire world to witness. In the process, Trump has destroyed the Republican party to shreds and is now on path to take on Hillary. People are fooled when they believe that Hillary will survive against Trump. Hillary also belongs to the same elitist mainstream status qou like the conservative Republican candidates. That is how white angry Americans perceive Hillary. The world will be gobsmacked the day Trump becomes the president. Only a matter of time I'm afraid. Hate me for saying this, but Trump is what I term a by-product of US society. This ugly and intolerant sentiment has been brewing for decades. It is finally coming to frutition and the pundits are truly baffled. In short, Trump has exploited the worst of the worst. As it turns out, there is plenty of that.


I agree with you, as I said in my previous post, Trump represents the worse of the worse, no doubt about that, but you have to understand that all white Republicans are not angry racist bigots, and the results from the super Tuesday proves that, for example, Trump, won in 7 states with less than 50% votes and lost in 4 states, that shows that the majority of Republicans did not vote for him.

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## ultron

delegates update

http://www.cnn.com/election/


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## Desertfalcon

The whole Trump phenomenon explained in one short video...

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## Moonlight

Desertfalcon said:


> The whole Trump phenomenon explained in one short video...



His fan following is what actually irritates me.

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## 24 Hours

I'm pretty much convinced that Trump and Hillary have got the nominations down.


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## heisenberg

what if donald trump becomes US president and nothing bad as anticipated occurs


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## ultron

heisenberg said:


> what if donald trump becomes US president and nothing bad as anticipated occurs




Trump is very liberal. He's pretty much a Democrat except he does not like wars in the Middle East and does not believe in global warming.

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## T-72M1

Ammara Chaudhry said:


> His fan following is what actually irritates me.


if the insinuation is that they're all 'racists and bigots', given his popularity, poll numbers and primary wins, could it be that _you're_ scapegoating millions of people here ?


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## RabzonKhan

Bravo, hopefully more and more DECENT Republicans will speak out, I just watched on CNN (I’ll post it here, once it’s on the YouTube) the former Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney severely criticized Trump, calling him “*a pony*”, “*a fraud*” “a *misogynist* and a bully who *threatens America’s future*”

“Ronald Reagan used to quote a Scottish philosopher who predicted that democracies and civilizations couldn’t last more than about 200 years. John Adams wrote this: “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” I believe that America has proven these dire predictions wrong for two reasons.

First, we have been blessed with great presidents, with giants among us. Men of character, integrity and selflessness have led our nation from its very beginning. None were perfect: each surely made mistakes. But in every case, they acted out of the desire to do what was right for America and for freedom.

The second reason is because we are blessed with a great people, people who at every critical moment of choosing have put the interests of the country above their own.

*These two things are related: our presidents time and again have called on us to rise to the occasion. John F. Kennedy asked us to consider what we could do for our country.* Lincoln drew upon the better angels of our nature to save the union.

*I understand the anger Americans feel today. In the past, our presidents have channeled that anger, and forged it into resolve, into endurance and high purpose, and into the will to defeat the enemies of freedom. Our anger was transformed into energy directed for good.*

*Mr. Trump is directing our anger for less than noble purposes. He creates scapegoats of Muslims and Mexican immigrants, he calls for the use of torture and for killing the innocent children and family members of terrorists.He cheers assaults on protesters. He applauds the prospect of twisting the Constitution to limit first amendment freedom of the press. This is the very brand of anger that has led other nations into the abyss.*

Here’s what I know. Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud. His promises are as worthless as a degree from Trump University. He’s playing the American public for suckers: He gets a free ride to the White House and all we get is a lousy hat.

*His domestic policies would lead to recession. His foreign policies would make America and the world less safe.* He has neither the temperament nor the judgment to be president. And his personal qualities would mean that America would cease to be a shining city on a hill.

America has greatness ahead. This is a time for choosing. God bless us to choose a nominee who will make that vision a reality.”

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## Desertfalcon

RabzonKhan said:


> calling him “*a pony*”






*?* 

I watched as well as Gov. Mitt Romney, the 2012 Republican Party (conservative) nominee for president, launched into a scathing critique of Donald Trump, (given at my _alma mater_, the University of Utah ). Thank you, Gov. Romney for speaking up for we conservatives who will NOT vote for Mr. Trump under any circumstances! His speech below...


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## Nattmara

Desertfalcon said:


> *?*
> 
> I watched as well as Gov. Mitt Romney, the 2012 Republican Party (conservative) nominee for president, launched into a scathing critique of Donald Trump, (given at my _alma mater_, the University of Utah ). Thank you, Gov. Romney for speaking up for us conservatives who will NOT vote for Mr. Trump under any circumstances! His speech below...



A question if you'd entertain one; what's a Clinton presidency mean for the US military in Europe? I've seen that Mrs. Clinton is noted as being a Hawk, primarily with ongoing US threats in the Middle East and East Asia, does she support a greater US role in Europe too? Funding for NATO militaries? Arms sales? Additional US troops in Europe? Exercises in greater frequencies? What's her stance on the US military in Europe as it stands and how does she plan to address the US military in Europe as Europe, the US and Russia grapple for leverage?

I consider Trump to be too divisive to be elected in a general election. That Cruz and Rubio together are gaining more votes than Trump in the primaries and caucuses indicates Trump isn't too popular with the Republican Party as a whole, just parts of it, very vocal and angry parts at that. I've concerns about his commitment to the US military in Europe given his bonhomie with Vladimir Putin, or at least his perceived admiration. Trump seems to ascribe his ire to China instead.


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## Desertfalcon

Nattmara said:


> A question if you'd entertain one; what's a Clinton presidency mean for the US military in Europe? I've seen that Mrs. Clinton is noted as being a Hawk, primarily with ongoing US threats in the Middle East and East Asia, does she support a greater US role in Europe too?


As a conservative, I will try my best to give an objective answer, as I positively loath the woman _but_ Sen. Clinton is from the more moderate side of her party than Mr. Obama is. I also think she would be a stronger _leader_ (despite her Benghazi criticism.), whereas one of the biggest complaints of Mr. Obama is that he is weak and feckless leader. Sen. Obama will be fully committed to NATO and good relations with all the countries of the EU. There is also little taste in either Party for any sort of _America going it alone_ idea, so closer coordination with NATO and the UN in all things. 



> I consider Trump to be too divisive to be elected in a general election. That Cruz and Rubio together are gaining more votes than Trump in the primaries and caucuses indicates Trump isn't too popular with the Republican Party as a whole, just parts of it, very vocal and angry parts at that.


I also think that Mr. Trump is probably unelectable, (although, I admit I was wrong in that I thought he would never get this far! So I could be wrong again.). You cannot win a national election in America without winning a significant amount of the non-white vote, for example. It just can't be done. Any nominee for president _must_ win a certain percentage of the Latino, black, and Asian vote, in that order, as they are a huge part of the demographics of the American people, and so that is just one reason why I think Trump cannot win against Mrs. Clinton. The problem is, Trump has tapped into a seething anger that is very similar to the National Front in France, the Party of Freedom in the Netherlands, or the Swiss People's Party. It can be hard to get people to listen to reason and think about what is moral, right, and good, in politics, when they are filled with rage. (See my, 'I'm mad as hell' video a few posts above. ).


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## SQ8

Desertfalcon said:


> The whole Trump phenomenon explained in one short video...


I had the exact same video popping into my head when he first started gathering momentum.

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## Sky lord

Desertfalcon said:


> can be hard to get people to listen to reason and think about what is moral, right, and good, in politics, when they are filled with



Would you mind if I ask what are people so angry about? America seems to be doing just fine, better than most countries in Europe at any rate....and it has always been a country of immigrants..the immigrants may be coming from further away that's all. 

Also how come all the republican candidates are pro assault weapons ? Is it possible for a republican candidate to win if s/he comes out against the more extreme weapons at least? Why does the NRA have this much clout?


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## Desertfalcon

Sky lord said:


> Would you mind if I ask what are people so angry about? America seems to be doing just fine, better than most countries in Europe at any rate....and it has always been a country of immigrants..the immigrants may be coming from further away that's all.


All I can do is guess as I'm not in that angry crowed, but I think it has two main factors: 1. Economic, gone are the days when a non-college educated American male could get a union job with good benefits, and work for the same company until retirement, living a solid middle class life. Today, people with only a high school education, have to work many different jobs over their working lifetime, with few benefits, little job security, and without seeing middle class incomes go up much in the last several decades. They have to constantly be trying to acquire skills and education just to remain competitive in the job market and all those things create fear and anxiety about their future. 2. America's changing demographics and society. White males aged 35 and older are the core of that angry American group. Every minute of every day, America is becoming more and more different from them. America is becoming less white and more racially and ethnically diverse, less Protestant Christian, and more atheist, agnostic, as well as more Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. Less rural and more urban, less socially conservative and more socially liberal and diverse, etc. That angry group no longer recognizes the America they live in. 



> Also how come all the republican candidates are pro assault weapons ? Is it possible for a republican candidate to win if s/he comes out against the more extreme weapons at least? Why does the NRA have this much clout?



Because individual gun ownership is as fundamental an American right as free speech or freedom of religion. So, no; no Republican can ever win the nomination if they do not defend gun rights. Even Democrats can fast get into political trouble if they go too far in trying to push gun control. It's hard for non-Americans to understand but from rural white guys shooting their assault rifles on the weekends, (And I am one of them with my AK-47 ), to urban black males defending their "hood", Americans just love their gun rights and will fight to keep them.

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## RoadRunner401

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — In an extraordinary display of Republican chaos, the party's most recent presidential nominees, Mitt Romney and John McCain, lambasted current front-runner Donald Trump on Thursday, calling him unfit for office and a danger for the nation and the GOP.

"His is not the temperament of a stable, thoughtful leader," Romney declared. He called Trump "a phony" who is "playing the American public for suckers," a man whose "imagination must not be married to real power."

The vicious feud marked a near-unprecedented scenario pitting the Republican Party's most prominent leaders, past and present, against each other as Democrats begin to unite around Hillary Clinton.

The criticism set the tone for a primetime debate in which Trump lashed back, calling Romney "a failed candidate" who lost to Barack Obama four years ago because he was such a poor candidate. The loss, Trump charged, was "an embarrassment."

And yet, in reply to the last question of Thursday night's debate, each of the remaining candidates — Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio and John Kasich — said they would support Trump if he was the presidential nominee of their party.

Underlying the clash is a bleak reality for panicking Republican officials: Beyond harsh words, there is little they see to stop Trump's march toward the presidential nomination. Party leaders are poring over complicated delegate math, outlining hazy scenarios for a contested national convention and even flirting with the idea of a third-party effort.

Romney confidant Ron Kaufman, a senior member of the Republican National Committee, openly embraced the possibility of a contested convention: "If that's the only way to stop Trump, it makes sense," he told The Associated Press.

In the most notable verbal attacks against Trump to date, Romney and his 2012 running mate, House Speaker Paul Ryan, urged voters in the strongest terms to shun the former reality television star for the good of country and party.

The GOP's 2008 nominee, Arizona Sen. McCain, joined in, raising "many concerns about Mr. Trump's uninformed and indeed dangerous statements on national security issues." That echoes the worries of dozens of leading conservative defense and foreign policy officials.

As Kaufman suggested, Romney embraced what might seem a long-shot approach to deny Trump the delegates necessary to secure the nomination, though he did not call on Republicans to unify behind a single alternative.

"Given the current delegate selection process, this means that I would vote for Marco Rubio in Florida, for John Kasich in Ohio and for Ted Cruz or whichever one of the other two contenders has the best chance of beating Mr. Trump in a given state," Romney said.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/999a...gop-sees-options-stopping-trump-not-good-ones
Romney advisers have recently sought information on a contested convention, though there appeared to be no concrete planning for that possibility and it was unclear whether their efforts signaled Romney's own interest in becoming the GOP nominee through a floor fight, according to a Republican familiar with the efforts. That person was not authorized to discuss the plans publicly and spoke only on condition of anonymity.

Another idea rumbling through power corridors in Washington was the prospect of a late third-party candidate to represent more mainstream conservatives.

Former Texas Gov. Rick Perry has been approached by "a mixture of people" about being part of a third-party bid, said Jeff Miller, who managed Perry's failed GOP presidential campaign. But Miller said Perry found the idea "ludicrous."

Suggesting that Romney may continue to have 2016 ambitions of his own, Trump said the 2012 nominee had "chickened out" earlier when he understood he'd be going up against the billionaire businessman.

"He doesn't have what it takes to be president," Trump said at a Portland, Maine, rally. "I made so much more money than Mitt."

Romney's views are irrelevant, he said. "Look, Mitt is a failed candidate."

The back-and-forth came as the Republican candidates prepared for their first post-Super Tuesday debate, Thursday night in Detroit.

Four years ago, Romney and Trump stood side by side in Las Vegas, with Trump saying it was a "real honor and privilege" to endorse Romney's White House bid. Romney at the time praised Trump's ability to "understand how our economy works and to create jobs for the American people."

On Thursday, Trump said Romney "was begging me" for an endorsement that year.

"I could have said, 'Mitt, drop to your knees.' He would have dropped to his knees," Trump said.

Earlier Thursday, in Utah, Romney assailed Trump's temperament, his business acumen and his ability to keep America safe.

"If we Republicans choose Donald Trump as our nominee, the prospects for a safe and prosperous future are greatly diminished," he said.

During his Capitol Hill press conference, Ryan dismissed comments Trump made this week that if the Wisconsin Republican didn't get along with him, Ryan would "pay a big price."

"I just laughed out loud," Ryan told reporters. "Sometimes, reality is stranger than fiction around here these days."

The speaker added that "conservatism is being disfigured" by some of Trump's ideas and statements.

Voters have not so far responded to such warnings.

Trump padded his delegate lead with victories in seven Super Tuesday contests, with Cruz claiming three states and Florida Sen. Rubio picking up his first victory of the 2016 race.

Still, the front-runner is not yet on track to claim the nomination before the party's national gathering in July, according to an Associated Press delegate count. He has won 46 percent of the delegates awarded so far, and he would have to increase that to 51 percent in the remaining primaries.

The GOP mayhem contrasts sharply with a clearer picture on the Democratic side, where Clinton is drawing broad support from voters and her party's leaders. Rival Sen. Bernie Sanders has vowed to keep up his fight, though his path to the nomination has become exceedingly narrow.

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## Dalit

The more they attack Trump the more invincible he becomes. The common white man is very angry. Trump is the answer to the woes of the common white man. Trump has won the GOP nomination and the Republican elders need to accept this. If the Republicans fail to accept Trump as their prime candidate, the party is going to be taken apart.

When Trump talks about making America great again, he really means to make America great again for the aggrieved white common male.

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## Dalit

The Republican party and its veteran stakeholders are in an angry and confused state of mind. It is a very bitter pill to swallow given that Trump was just a sideshow a couple of months ago. He was considered a circus act back then. Little did the senior Republican figures know that this "joker" was going to be their prime candidate. Today, the "joker" is a reality and he is passing statements at will. He stands in their faces and mocks them as he wishes. Everyone laughs with joy and votes Trump. Even the most ridiculous statements don't affect Trump anymore. He can say just about anything and his angry white supporters are remaining loyal to him. Trump is considered truthful and a strong leader for America. Someone who is willing to go one step further by creating more war and anarchy to enrich America. In Trump's own words, America doesn't win anymore.

Liar Ted, quite Kasich and little Rubio are all puzzled and getting their asses handed to them vote after vote. They try to mount meaningless and ineffective attacks against Trump. Yet, the man only seems to get stronger and more popular. Not only among white uneducated folks, but also the educated and even some minority groups. The election results don't lie.

Again, Trump is receiving a lot of thumbs up for speaking up against Mexicans and Muslims in particular. His ideas against these groups has attracted a lot of support among aggrieved white victims. The white folks truly believe that Mexicans and Muslims are the root of all problems in their country. Once these obstacle are removed and taken care of, US will prosper and rivers of honey will flow like never before. Trump has used this card brilliantly. As he puts it, time has come to not be politically incorrect anymore. The angry white folks are paying heed to this message. The white folks are in a rage and trance. The Trump rallies have become a place where black African Americans, Muslims and other protestors are beaten up and expelled from the festivity.

I predict that Trump is going to get more popular in the upcoming weeks and months. He is going sweep the GOP elections with such conviction that it is going to change the political landscape forever.

Bush has been humiliated and we saw how he parted ways by sobbing and shedding tears. Even his mama and brother couldn't save him from a vicious loss. Liar Ted, quite Kasich and little Rubio are next and nothing can stop Trump's momentum towards GOP nomination. This is a fact that everyone has to accept and deal with. Even if we disapprove and dislike Trump with every fiber in our body.


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## Desertfalcon

Dalit said:


> The Republican party and its veteran stakeholders are in an angry and confused state of mind. It is a very bitter pill to swallow given that Trump was just a sideshow a couple of months ago. He was considered a circus act back then. Little did the senior Republicans know that this "joker" was going to be their prime candidate. Today, the "joker" is a reality and he is passing statements at will. Even the most ridiculous statements don't affect Trump anymore. He can say just about anything and his angry white supporters are remaining loyal to him.
> 
> Liar Ted, quite Kasich and little Rubio are all puzzled and getting their asses handed to them vote after vote. They try to mount meaningless and ineffective attacks against Trump. Yet, the man only seems to get stronger and more popular. Not only among white uneducated folks, but also the educated and even some minority groups. The election results don't lie.
> 
> Again, Trump is receiving a lot of thumbs up for speaking up against Mexicans and Muslims in particular. His ideas against these groups has attracted a lot of support among white aggrieved white victims. The white folks truly believe that Mexicans and Muslims are the root of all problems in their country. Trump has used this card briluantly. As he puts it, time has come to not be politically incorrect anymore. The angry white folks are paying heed to this message.
> 
> I predict that Trump is going to get more popular in the upcoming weeks and months. He is going sweep the GOP elections.
> 
> Bush has been humiliated and we saw how he parted ways with sobbing tears. Liar Ted, quite Kasich and little Rubio are next and nothing can stop Trump's momentum towards GOP nomination. This is a fact that everyone has to accept and deal with.


I would keep in mind that in America's unusual party system, only a small percentage of the population actually votes in primaries and even smaller percentage votes in caucuses, so when you say things like, _"white folks truly believe that Mexicans and Muslims are the root of all problems in their country."_, that really isn't true. Most Americans are opposed to illegal immigration for sure, because.......it's against the law, but they don't "hate" Mexicans. The town I live in right now, is 43% Hispanic, my local church is well over 50%, and there is no real racial tensions or hatred, anger, etc. Heck, how can there be when so many American families are so mixed race, that you can't tell anymore. Look at the people running for president; of the remaining candidates, Trump and Kasich are the only two white male Protestants among them. Clinton is female, Cruz and Rubio are both Hispanic, and Carson is African-American, as is the President that one of them will be replacing. And when Trump proposed banning Muslims from entering the country, the overwhelming majority of the American people were opposed to it in every poll.

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## Nattmara

Desertfalcon said:


> I would keep in mind that in America's unusual party system, only a small percentage of the population actually votes in primaries and even smaller percentage votes in caucuses.



This is a very important point that's conflagrating how much we can read into the support of an individual like Trump or Sanders.

The Republican parties caucuses and primaries are seeing record high turn out - leading to Trump being seen to have high support at the expense of Cruz and Rubio, though this may not be true during General elections when more people turn out.

Conversely, Sanders may be undershooting his support, or at least he's mis-estimating it. Part of his insurgent campaign platform is that he can galvanize the non-voters by being an outsider. At this point this platform seems unfounded as the Democratic primaries are seeing record low turnout.

So who's got the support and who doesn't? As always, the primarys and caucuses don't tell us anything. They are an anomaly that pumps up media coverage for some who do well, which is important as coverage can sway discussions and voter views, but we hardly get a complete picture of the US political landscape.

You mentioned you're a conservative, I'm on the other side of the equation, but where on the European scale of polics would you be? I say this because our scales are different. In the US Bernie Sanders is a radical, too far left from most in the US. But in Europe he'd be just another Labor party member. It's that common here.


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## Desertfalcon

Nattmara said:


> This is a very important point that's conflagrating how much we can read into the support of an individual like Trump or Sanders.
> 
> The Republican parties caucuses and primaries are seeing record high turn out - leading to Trump being seen to have high support at the expense of Cruz and Rubio, though this may not be true during General elections when more people turn out.
> 
> Conversely, Sanders may be undershooting his support, or at least he's mis-estimating it. Part of his insurgent campaign platform is that he can galvanize the non-voters by being an outsider. At this point this platform seems unfounded as the Democratic primaries are seeing record low turnout.
> 
> So who's got the support and who doesn't? As always, the primarys and caucuses don't tell us anything. They are an anomaly that pumps up media coverage for some who do well, which is important as coverage can sway discussions and voter views, but we hardly get a complete picture of the US political landscape.
> 
> You mentioned you're a conservative, I'm on the other side of the equation, but where on the European scale of polics would you be? I say this because our scales are different. In the US Bernie Sanders is a radical, too far left from most in the US. But in Europe he'd be just another Labor party member. It's that common here.


Right. If I were Norwegian, I would still probably be Hoyre and not Progress Party-FrP, but both are probably to the left of the Republican Party on many issues. 

The other factor is in the shrinking of American parties. Trump or Clinton will get way more votes from Americans who belong to no party, than they get from their own because both parties, especially the Republican Party has been getting smaller and smaller every year as more and more Americans become politically independent. There is less of a clear ideological make-up then there was several decades ago.


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## Dalit

Desertfalcon said:


> I would keep in mind that in America's unusual party system, only a small percentage of the population actually votes in primaries and even smaller percentage votes in caucuses, so when you say things like, _"white folks truly believe that Mexicans and Muslims are the root of all problems in their country."_, that really isn't true. Most Americans are opposed to illegal immigration for sure, because.......it's against the law, but they don't "hate" Mexicans. The town I live in right now, is 43% Hispanic, my local church is well over 50%, and there is no real racial tensions or hatred, anger, etc. Heck, how can there be when so many American families are so mixed race, that you can't tell anymore. Look at the people running for president; of the remaining candidates, Trump and Kasich are the only two white male Protestants among them. Clinton is female, Cruz and Rubio are both Hispanic, and Carson is African-American, as is the President that one of them will be replacing. And when Trump proposed banning Muslims from entering the country, the overwhelming majority of the American people were opposed to it in every poll.



The sentiment obviously varies from place to place. Although, one cannot deny the huge support that Trump is receiving from mainly disgruntled white folks because of his anti-Muslim and anti-Mexican rhetoric which definitely is striking a chord. One can already gauge the ugly and sinister mood when people cheer and celebrate the ban on Muslims entering the US. Mexicans are openly branded as rapists and criminals which are sent by the Mexican government according to Trump. Protesters who happen to be Muslims and black Americans are scolded and beaten up during Trump rallies by white angry folks. It is happening right infront of our TV screens and I'm not making this up. Your town is just one place. The US is a huge country. We have to take into account the sentiment across all regions in the US. It doesn't look rosy. Besides, how would you explain Trump's victories and popularity among many white Americans? It is an inconvenient truth that many Americans are acting like bigots. Their support and vote for a bigot is enough proof. Trump is winning because he has the support of bigots like him.

Don't underestimate Trump's ability to win the general elections. Not so long ago, Trump wasn't even considered an outsider in these GOP elections. Today he is sweeping one state after the other and we see the Republicans sweating like a beaver.


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## Zabaniyah

T-72M1 said:


> and that's why Trump would be great, he's called out both Bush and Obama/Clinton for their poor handling of the middle east, talked about the Saudi hand in 9/11 (15/19 hijackers were saudi nationals),and that supporting these so called rebels in Syria is a bad idea and he would rather work with Putin and clear the jihadists than start WW3 over Syria.



A bunch of cavemen with some old AK-47's is not enough to start WW3. Unless they manage to detonate a nuke or something which is highly unlikely. 

And of-course, Putin would want Trump to be in power. The man's ex-KGB 



> I'm amazed a US presidential candidate is talking about stuff like this, a republican no less, and he's resonating with the people !



The GOP were trying to increase its voter spectrum. Trump did quite the opposite. 

Bottom line is that if a candidate cannot address a broad demographic spectrum during US elections, getting a hold of the power would be unlikely. 

As for me and putting the Middle East aside, I cannot fathom the consequences in the after-math of a power vacuum. And to be honest, countries like Bangladesh, Vietnam and others do not have the kind of money in one of Trump's weird trade theories. I don't know about India, but you better starting thinking about it too. 



> The muslim ban thing was very unpleasant and completely disgusting imo but that was just him playing to the far right to get that vote and carve a hardcore niche for himself.... but I don't think he's a racist, politics is ugly but the stakes are the highest when it comes to US politics.



Muslims are not a race. 



> He's a very smart guy, think he might surprise a few people.



Smart, yes. One thing is for certain is that he has brought about the worse in America. The GOP elders are in panic mode. Are these people stupid? 



Dalit said:


> The Republican party and its veteran stakeholders are in an angry and confused state of mind. It is a very bitter pill to swallow given that Trump was just a sideshow a couple of months ago. He was considered a circus act back then. Little did the senior Republican figures know that this "joker" was going to be their prime candidate. Today, the "joker" is a reality and he is passing statements at will. He stands in their faces and mocks them as he wishes. Everyone laughs with joy and votes Trump. Even the most ridiculous statements don't affect Trump anymore. He can say just about anything and his angry white supporters are remaining loyal to him. Trump is considered truthful and a strong leader for America. Someone who is willing to go one step further by creating more war and anarchy to enrich America. In Trump's own words, America doesn't win anymore.
> 
> Liar Ted, quite Kasich and little Rubio are all puzzled and getting their asses handed to them vote after vote. They try to mount meaningless and ineffective attacks against Trump. Yet, the man only seems to get stronger and more popular. Not only among white uneducated folks, but also the educated and even some minority groups. The election results don't lie.
> 
> Again, Trump is receiving a lot of thumbs up for speaking up against Mexicans and Muslims in particular. His ideas against these groups has attracted a lot of support among aggrieved white victims. The white folks truly believe that Mexicans and Muslims are the root of all problems in their country. Once this obstacle is removed and taken care of, US will prosper and rivers of honey will flow like never before. Trump has used this card brilliantly. As he puts it, time has come to not be politically incorrect anymore. The angry white folks are paying heed to this message. The white films are in a rage and trance. The Trump rallies have become a place where black African Americans, Muslims and other protestors are beaten up and expelled from the festivity.
> 
> I predict that Trump is going to get more popular in the upcoming weeks and months. He is going sweep the GOP elections with such conviction that it is going to change the political landscape forever.
> 
> Bush has been humiliated and we saw how he parted ways by sobbing and shedding tears. Even his mama and brother couldn't save him from a vicious loss. Liar Ted, quite Kasich and little Rubio are next and nothing can stop Trump's momentum towards GOP nomination. This is a fact that everyone has to accept and deal with. Even if we disapprove and dislike Trump with every fiber in our body.



I doubt that Trump actually believes in even half of the things he says. He is a self made person and successful too.

Muslims aside, build a wall and make Mexico pay for it? Make Japan and ROK to pay for being allies? Is he doing these for the media? Or is he a closet democrat out to annihilate the GOP?

There now rumors that the GOP may even split into two.



Dalit said:


> The sentiment obviously varies from place to place. Although, one cannot deny the huge support that Trump is receiving from mainly disgruntled white folks because of his anti-Muslim and anti-Mexican rhetoric which definitely is striking a chord. One can already gauge the ugly and sinister mood when people cheer and celebrate the ban on Muslims entering the US. Mexicans are openly branded as rapists and criminals which are sent by the Mexican government according to Trump. Protesters who happen to be Muslims and black Americans are scolded and beaten up during Trump rallies by white angry folks. It is happening right infront of our TV screens and I'm not making this up. Your town is just one place. The US is a huge country. We have to take into account the sentiment across all regions in the US. It doesn't look rosy. Besides, how would you explain Trump's victories and popularity among many white Americans? It is an inconvenient truth that many Americans are acting like bigots. Their support and vote for a bigot is enough proof. Trump is winning because he has the support of bigots like him.



He appeals mostly to rural, non-college educated and older people. And the areas where he gets support aren't that populated with narrow demographic spectrums. 

The core of Trump's support are people who are frustrated by struggling for the past two decades in regards to job security, health care and wages. They feel that they cannot go up the social class ladder. Most importantly, they are uncertain about their and their children's future. In other words, *they are poor people.* They feel tired about politics as usual and feel that their system is failing to meet their needs. We all have our little dreams. 

I mean let's ask ourselves, would a poor villager in South Asia have time or even comprehend global geopolitics? And if he does, we have seen what happens when we give them that undeserved attention on a global scale. Trump's core support is just that. But still, different. 

Poverty, intolerance, illiteracy come in all shapes and sizes. So, let's not bring out the Muslim card ourselves. Let them say whatever they want to say. The more conspiracy theories, the better. 

Trump is just being...well, Trump.


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## Al-zakir

Loki said:


> I doubt that Trump actually believes in even half of the things he says. He is a self made person and successful too.



No exactly. He born rich. He inherited most of his wealth from his father and deprived his brother in doing so. I am not sure if this guy would make a good president. USA may be waiting for dooms day.


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## T-72M1

Loki said:


> A bunch of cavemen with some old AK-47's is not enough to start WW3


one would hope not but just look how the Syria thing is escalating, its scary 



Loki said:


> The GOP were trying to increase its voter spectrum. Trump did quite the opposite.


the GOP have already increased their base with Trump drawing in gazzilions of people to rally behind him, but then he's gone after them pretty viciously with attacking bush, mccain, lindsey graham and the neo cons, and rightfully so, bush and cheny/rumsfeld etc were a disaster for the world. 

Trump gets full marks for that afaic

I don't think anyone has him figured out yet, the guy is an anomaly, maybe because he speaks the truth no mater what ? 



Loki said:


> As for me and putting the Middle East aside, I cannot fathom the consequences in the after-math of a power vacuum. And to be honest, countries like Bangladesh, Vietnam and others do not have the kind of money in one of Trump's weird trade theories. I don't know about India, but you better starting thinking about it too.


not worried, it'll be business as usual



Loki said:


> Muslims are not a race.


I'm aware of that, but it still was the one thing that kind of left a real bad taste, that was not a nice thing to say, big -ve but his +ves still trump the bad stuff 



Loki said:


> Smart, yes. One thing is for certain is that he has brought about the worse in America. The GOP elders are in panic mode. Are these people stupid?


who elders ? bush, mccain, cheney, rumsfeld et all ? 

yes, they're a bunch of stupid *** war criminal thugs who gave the world ISIS, these people are very stupid imo


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## Zabaniyah

Al-zakir said:


> No exactly. He born rich. He inherited most of his wealth from his father and deprived his brother in doing so. I am not sure if this guy would make a good president. USA may be waiting for dooms day.



From what I read, he started off with $1 million from his father. He became a millionaire to a billionaire. So that makes him a self-made person. Correct me if I'm wrong though.


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## Dalit

Loki said:


> A bunch of cavemen with some old AK-47's is not enough to start WW3. Unless they manage to detonate a nuke or something which is highly unlikely.
> 
> And of-course, Putin would want Trump to be in power. The man's ex-KGB
> 
> 
> 
> The GOP were trying to increase its voter spectrum. Trump did quite the opposite.
> 
> Bottom line is that if a candidate cannot address a broad demographic spectrum during US elections, getting a hold of the power would be unlikely.
> 
> As for me and putting the Middle East aside, I cannot fathom the consequences in the after-math of a power vacuum. And to be honest, countries like Bangladesh, Vietnam and others do not have the kind of money in one of Trump's weird trade theories. I don't know about India, but you better starting thinking about it too.
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are not a race.
> 
> 
> 
> Smart, yes. One thing is for certain is that he has brought about the worse in America. The GOP elders are in panic mode. Are these people stupid?
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt that Trump actually believes in even half of the things he says. He is a self made person and successful too.
> 
> Muslims aside, build a wall and make Mexico pay for it? Make Japan and ROK to pay for being allies? Is he doing these for the media? Or is he a closet democrat out to annihilate the GOP?
> 
> There now rumors that the GOP may even split into two.
> 
> 
> 
> He appeals mostly to rural, non-college educated and older people. And the areas where he gets support aren't that populated with narrow demographic spectrums.
> 
> The core of Trump's support are people who are frustrated by struggling for the past two decades in regards to job security, health care and wages. They feel that they cannot go up the social class ladder. Most importantly, they are uncertain about their and their children's future. In other words, *they are poor people.* They feel tired about politics as usual and feel that their system is failing to meet their needs. We all have our little dreams.
> 
> I mean let's ask ourselves, would a poor villager in South Asia have time or even comprehend global geopolitics? And if he does, we have seen what happens when we give them that undeserved attention on a global scale. Trump's core support is just that. But still, different.
> 
> Poverty, intolerance, illiteracy come in all shapes and sizes. So, let's not bring out the Muslim card ourselves. Let them say whatever they want to say. The more conspiracy theories, the better.
> 
> Trump is just being...well, Trump.



That is exactly all Trump requires. A working middle class consisting of mainly white folks who are looking to vent their anger and frustration one or the other way. Trump doesn't care whether the voters are poor or rich. All he needs are voters and thus far he got plenty. A working middle class that can be mislead into believing that Muslims and Mexicans are part of the problem. A working middle class that is loyal and undeterred. He has all the right ingredients in place to gather as much support as he can. Trump is on course of GOP nomination.

Don't make a mistake. This is the same mindset which supported Bush during the Iraq war.

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## Desertfalcon

Dalit said:


> The sentiment obviously varies from place to place. Although, one cannot deny the huge support that Trump is receiving from mainly disgruntled white folks because of his anti-Muslim and anti-Mexican rhetoric which definitely is striking a chord. One can already gauge the ugly and sinister mood when people cheer and celebrate the ban on Muslims entering the US. Mexicans are openly branded as rapists and criminals which are sent by the Mexican government according to Trump. Protesters who happen to be Muslims and black Americans are scolded and beaten up during Trump rallies by white angry folks. It is happening right infront of our TV screens and I'm not making this up. Your town is just one place. The US is a huge country. We have to take into account the sentiment across all regions in the US. It doesn't look rosy. Besides, how would you explain Trump's victories and popularity among many white Americans? It is an inconvenient truth that many Americans are acting like bigots. Their support and vote for a bigot is enough proof. Trump is winning because he has the support of bigots like him.
> 
> Don't underestimate Trump's ability to win the general elections. Not so long ago, Trump wasn't even considered an outsider in these GOP elections. Today he is sweeping one state after the other and we see the Republicans sweating like a beaver.


I know you're not making it up and yes, sentiments can vary from town to town, but lets just take one thing you said, 



> "One can already gauge the ugly and sinister mood when people cheer and celebrate the ban on Muslims entering the US."



I assume you mean, Trump's idiotic proposal of a ban as their is of course, no ban on Muslims entering the USA, but besides that point, Trump was not only roundly condemned by virtually all of the country's leaders, the American people in poll after poll, overwhelmingly opposed any such ban. Now lets look at another statement statement, 



> "how would you explain Trump's victories and popularity among many white Americans?"



It's explained again, in understanding that it is not "white Americans". It's a small percentage who happen to be "white Americans". You know who the next candidate is who's followers are disproportionately white compared to his opponent? Socialist/Liberal Bernie Sanders! It's Bernie's biggest problem, so you can't just generalize. Of course there are Americans who are bigots, and there are jackasses who act out in their bigotry, just as in your country, but you won't get the true nature of the country by generalizing. A hidden camera TV show that has a series of interesting experiments, this one about anti-Muslim bigotry. Probably a better representation of the American people than a Trump rally...

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## Sky lord

Loki said:


> The core of Trump's support are people who are frustrated by struggling for the past two decades in regards to job security, health care and wages. They feel that they cannot go up the social class ladder. Most importantly, they are uncertain about their and their children's future. In other words, *they are poor people.* They feel tired about politics as usual and feel that their system is failing to meet their needs. We all have our little dreams.



I wonder how true that is though? Massachusetts voted for Trump - huge margin. MA is one of the richest and most liberal states with low rates of unemployment . Trump won Nevada - very high Hispanic vote. 

I don't know what's going on but I don't think the angry white rural folk explanation really fits anymore.

Maybe Trump got this far because- 

1. Trump communicates differently to the other politicians. He uses simple language, he is entertaining (made for TV), he does not bore people with complicated ideas - " I will replace obamacare with something terrific" No details or difficult ideas or explanations just simple fantasy building. 

He isn't smooth or suave the way most politicians are. And through long experience nobody trusts smooth and suave anymore. 

2. His opponents underestimated him and so didn't go after him early enough. Everyone just assumed he was a clown and would fizzle out, so they didn't do the necessary work. The republicans have been undermining Hilary for years now, they never gave a fraction of that attention to Trump. They just sat back and laughed at him. The establishment was as entertained by him as everyone else now they are panicking and it may be too late.


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## Desertfalcon

Sky lord said:


> Massachusetts voted for Trump



Massachusetts Republican Primary voters voted for Trump. Again, you have to take into account that in America's political system, only a small percentage of voters actually cast ballots in primary elections or causes. They are political party affairs in essence, and attract only the most politically active. What that means is, that while Mr. Trump won Massachusetts' Republican Party primary handily, it is not reflective of Massachusetts voters in general. So in liberal Democrat Party majority Massachusetts, Mr. Trump's total vote tally was only about *4.4%* of the state's population.

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## T-72M1




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## Sky lord

Desertfalcon said:


> Massachusetts Republican Primary voters voted for Trump. Again, you have to take into account that in America's political system, only a small percentage of voters actually cast ballots in primary elections or causes. They are political party affairs in essence, and attract only the most politically active. What that means is, that while Mr. Trump won Massachusetts' Republican Party primary handily, it is not reflective of Massachusetts voters in general. So in liberal Democrat Party majority Massachusetts, Mr. Trump's total vote tally was only about *4.4%* of the state's population.


True, very tiny percentage of total population, but would I be right to assume these are the "high end" well educated Bain Capital type republicans - not angry rural folk. 

I was wondering if there are now conservative establishment types voting for Trump? 

Here is a verbatim quote from an American friend who is a financial type in NY. " at least Trump has done something, not like Cruz - that guy has spent a lifetime stopping anything from getting done".

Maybe some well educated people are seeing Trump as a better alternative to Cruz?


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## Desertfalcon

Sky lord said:


> True, very tiny percentage of total population, but would I be right to assume these are the "high end" well educated Bain Capital type republicans - not angry rural folk.


Just the opposite. Trump's most loyal base are white males with only a high school education. That does not mean that he does not get some of the university educated, indeed, he does get even some minority voters. Trump is the weirdest political phenomenon in quite some time in America.



> I was wondering if there are now conservative establishment types voting for Trump?


There are, but the bigger story that has no precedent, is the growing number of conservatives/Republican elected officials that will not vote for him under any circumstanced.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/271578-22-republicans-who-wont-back-trump-as-nominee



> Here is a verbatim quote from an American friend who is a financial type in NY. " at least Trump has done something, not like Cruz - that guy has spent a lifetime stopping anything from getting done".
> 
> Maybe some well educated people are seeing Trump as a better alternative to Cruz?


Sure, he will. There is allot of anger out there, specifically among Republicans but if Trump becomes the nominee, and I think he will, I think Sen. Clinton will win most of the professional class, college educated types.


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## Dalit

Desertfalcon said:


> I know you're not making it up and yes, sentiments can vary from town to town, but lets just take one thing you said,
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you mean, Trump's idiotic proposal of a ban as their is of course, no ban on Muslims entering the USA, but besides that point, Trump was not only roundly condemned by virtually all of the country's leaders, the American people in poll after poll, overwhelmingly opposed any such ban. Now lets look at another statement statement,
> 
> 
> 
> It's explained again, in understanding that it is not "white Americans". It's a small percentage who happen to be "white Americans". You know who the next candidate is who's followers are disproportionately white compared to his opponent? Socialist/Liberal Bernie Sanders! It's Bernie's biggest problem, so you can't just generalize. Of course there are Americans who are bigots, and there are jackasses who act out in their bigotry, just as in your country, but you won't get the true nature of the country by generalizing. A hidden camera TV show that has a series of interesting experiments, this one about anti-Muslim bigotry. Probably a better representation of the American people than a Trump rally...



You keep saying that the voters who are voting for Trump are a small percentage. Yet, he has more than 50% of the conservative GOP voters behind him which indeed is a very significant number. From evangelicals to moderates and conservatives. Not to even mention, other non-GOP voters from all walks of life who are also massively voting for Trump. To make matters worse, Trump is indeed also receiving votes from well-educated folks which also happen to be primarily white folks. Trump's base support is wide and getting only wider. In one particular state, Trump even got a sizable Hispanic vote which is telling. The landslides wouldn't be happening without massive support from the voters. We cannot shrug this off as something insignificant. This is the truth and we have to face it. Ask the Republican elders who are now clueless how to deal with Trump's rise and fame.

We need to admit the inconvenient truth that Trump's horrendous message is striking a chord with many particularly white conservative and even non-conservative Americans. He is saying things which many white Americans are relating to. When he says that all Muslims are a danger to US society he receives a lot of credit and support for saying this. The white Americans who endorse the anti-Muslim views actually expect Trump to deliver on banning Muslims from entering their country. When Trump says that Mexican rapists and criminals are being sent over he actually receives a standing ovation from the white segment of the society. His supporters actually expect him to build a wall on the border. This is very troubling and we cannot hide these disturbing facts under a rug. He hasn't even started on the general elections yet and his popularity is skyrocketing. We need to call a spade a spade. This is a troubling trend and there is a reason why some analysts are comparing Trump's rise with Hitler.


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## Desertfalcon

Dalit said:


> You keep saying that the voters who are voting for Trump are a small percentage. Yet, he has more than 50% of the conservative GOP voters behind him which indeed is a very significant number. Not to even mention, other non-GOP voters from all walks of life who are also massively voting for Trump. In one state, Trump even got a sizable Hisoanic vote which is telling. The landslides wouldn't be happening without massive support from the voters. We cannot shrug this off as something insignificant.


I would not shrug it off at all. It's the most seismic political event to happen in the US in some time, but again, you are confusing some things,



> Trump even got a sizable Hisoanic vote which is telling.



Perfect example. No he didn't. He got a percentage of the very small number of Latino voters who vote in a Republican Party primary. Or...



> The landslides wouldn't be happening without massive support from the voters.



He is getting massive support from the relatively small percentage of voters who are voting in Republican primaries. Just as I had posted before, Trump overwhelmingly won the Massachusetts GOP primary............which means he got *4.4%* of the people of that state to support him, but I can safely bet my bank account today, that in the general election, the Democrats will win Mass. be a huge margin. Now, that does not mean that I don't think Trump will be the GOP nominee. I think he will. 



> We need to admit the inconvenient truth that Trump's horrendous message is striking a chord with many particularly white conservative and even non-conservative Americans. He is saying things which many white Americans are relating to. When he says that all Muslims are a danger to US society he receives a lot of credit and support for saying this. When Trump says that Mexican rapists and criminals are being sent over he actually receives a standing ovation from the white segment of the society. This is very troubling and we cannot hide these disturbing facts under a rug. He hasn't even started on the general elections yet and his popularity is skyrocketing. We need to call a spade a spade.



Well I certainly am not hiding them under a rug because I am one of those politically active Republican Party members who will not, under any circumstance, vote for Mr. Trump. I think what you are missing is that Trump does not represent the views of the majority of the American people. Even some who may vote for him, do not necessarily agree with his bigotry. That is a false generalization. What is really motivating those white, working class Americans is economic fear, far more than racial or religious fear. They no longer have any sort of economic security of a union job, benefits that will always be there, and a secure retirement. Many are too old to re-train for new fields of work, and they see illegal immigrates working in jobs they used to work in as kids. There are other reasons as well, but that is the biggest motivation for Trump's loyal base.  It will not translate into a victory in the general election though. There just aren't enough of that base to accomplish that. America has changed too much for that to happen.

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## RabzonKhan

Loki said:


> From what I read, he started off with $1 million from his father. He became a millionaire to a billionaire. So that makes him a self-made person. Correct me if I'm wrong though.


That’s what Donald Trump would want you to believe, he actually inherited successful business his grandfather, Friedrich Drumpf started.

Now you must be wondering, Drumpf, yes it was Drumpf, a German name, before his family changed it to Trump, so it would be easier for Americans to pronounce.









Oh my goodness, it is really hilarious, everyone should watch it. It reminds me the story of the naked Emperor and the child. It is quite a popular show on the YouTube, React series, it invites different age groups to give their views on various issues. 

Here is a small sample of kid’s comments/reactions: 

‘If you want to be president, you shouldn’t be racist”

“So undiplomatic”

“So rude”

“He is like a five-year-old” 

“He throws tantrums about stupid things”

“Filthy rich”

“He speaks his mind, but his mind isn’t right”

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## Zabaniyah

@T-72M1 I think you'll find this article informative.
China, Brexit, Trump top risk discussions | Global Trade Review (GTR)

@Dalit Trump's danger doesn't lie in his ideological extremism. It is his vulgar populism and anti-establishment ideals. That is what makes him dangerous. 



Sky lord said:


> I wonder how true that is though? Massachusetts voted for Trump - huge margin. MA is one of the richest and most liberal states with low rates of unemployment . Trump won Nevada - very high Hispanic vote.
> 
> I don't know what's going on but I don't think the angry white rural folk explanation really fits anymore.
> 
> Maybe Trump got this far because-
> 
> 1. Trump communicates differently to the other politicians. He uses simple language, he is entertaining (made for TV), he does not bore people with complicated ideas - " I will replace obamacare with something terrific" No details or difficult ideas or explanations just simple fantasy building.
> 
> He isn't smooth or suave the way most politicians are. And through long experience nobody trusts smooth and suave anymore.
> 
> 2. His opponents underestimated him and so didn't go after him early enough. Everyone just assumed he was a clown and would fizzle out, so they didn't do the necessary work. The republicans have been undermining Hilary for years now, they never gave a fraction of that attention to Trump. They just sat back and laughed at him. The establishment was as entertained by him as everyone else now they are panicking and it may be too late.



Prepare to get your mind blown 
I voted for Trump to destroy the GOP—commentary

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## Sky lord

Nice article-

I especially agree with this part-

_"I believe that Republicans made a deal with the devil in 2009 when they embraced the Tea Party, a populist group who were just mad as hell and weren't going to take it anymore. In Congress, the Tea Party has been aggressive in destroying all the norms that made it work for more than 200 years."_

I actually share conservative values, but not the bigotry and xenophobia and suspicion of science - all of them Tea Party additions to the Republican Party.

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## RabzonKhan

More DECENT Republicans speak out against Trump.


*Republican Foreign Policy Experts Pen Open Letter Bashing Trump*

by Claire Groden
MARCH 3, 2016

*Here’s something 70+ of them agree on.*

In an open letter to Donald Trump, more than 70 Republican foreign policy experts have banded together to agree on one thing: Trump cannot become president.

The letter, posted on foreign policy site War on the Rocks, said that Trump would make the United States “less safe” if elected president. The experts listed their gripes with the frontrunner’s foreign policy platform, including his aggressive advocacy for waging trade wars—”a recipe for economic disaster”—and his inconsistent vision for the United States’ role in global affairs.

“Controlling our border and preventing illegal immigration is a serious issue, but his insistence that Mexico will fund a wall on the southern border inflames unhelpful passions, and rests on an utter misreading of, and contempt for, our southern neighbor,” the letter says.

Former Bush administration State Department official Eliot Cohen and Bryan McGrath, who advised Mitt Romney’s 2012 campaign, organized the letter, according to the Washington Post. Signatories include former homeland security secretary Michael Chertoff, former Bush homeland security adviser Frances Townsend, and former deputy secretary of state Robert Zoellick.

*The foreign policy experts agreed that they would be “unable to support a party ticket with Mr. Trump at its head.”* But it’s not clear how much of an impact, if any, the letter would have. As the Post notes, the list of elite, DC-insiders are unlikely to impress Trump supporters who chafe at the Republican establishment’s opposition to the frontrunner.

Fortune has reached out to the Trump campaign and will update this post will their reply.

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## Dalit

Desertfalcon said:


> I would not shrug it off at all. It's the most seismic political event to happen in the US in some time, but again, you are confusing some things,
> 
> 
> 
> Perfect example. No he didn't. He got a percentage of the very small number of Latino voters who vote in a Republican Party primary. Or...
> 
> 
> 
> He is getting massive support from the relatively small percentage of voters who are voting in Republican primaries. Just as I had posted before, Trump overwhelmingly won the Massachusetts GOP primary............which means he got *4.4%* of the people of that state to support him, but I can safely bet my bank account today, that in the general election, the Democrats will win Mass. be a huge margin. Now, that does not mean that I don't think Trump will be the GOP nominee. I think he will.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I certainly am not hiding them under a rug because I am one of those politically active Republican Party members who will not, under any circumstance, vote for Mr. Trump. I think what you are missing is that Trump does not represent the views of the majority of the American people. Even some who may vote for him, do not necessarily agree with his bigotry. That is a false generalization. What is really motivating those white, working class Americans is economic fear, far more than racial or religious fear. They no longer have any sort of economic security of a union job, benefits that will always be there, and a secure retirement. Many are too old to re-train for new fields of work, and they see illegal immigrates working in jobs they used to work in as kids. There are other reasons as well, but that is the biggest motivation for Trump's loyal base. It will not translate into a victory in the general election though. There just aren't enough of that base to accomplish that. America has changed too much for that to happen.



I beg to differ entirely.

Exit poll: Three-quarters of S.C. GOP voters support Trump's Muslim ban

Measuring Donald Trump’s Supporters for Intolerance - NYTimes.com

Trump supporters in South Carolina would ban Islam, shut mosques and a third would prevent gays entering US | US elections | News | The Independent

A sizable white segment of the US society in many states supports banning Muslims from entering their country. Not all, but certainly a sizable segment. This aggrieved white segment might also have other reasons for supporting Trump, but banning Muslims is an overwhelming factor. The hate for Muslims is immense and intense.

I'm not confusing anything. First, people were doubting his very candidacy. Suddenly, they started realizing the huge crowds at Trump rallies. Then, came the shock when Trump started wining states. It is very easy to say now that Trump is going to be blown away by Hillary. This was also said during the GOP primaries, but the truth is quite the opposite.


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## F-22Raptor

Ted Cruz wins Kansas.


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## Desertfalcon

Dalit said:


> I beg to differ entirely.
> 
> Exit poll: Three-quarters of S.C. GOP voters support Trump's Muslim ban



*3/4* of GOP voters is NOT the same as the majority of the American people.

Poll: Solid opposition to ban on Muslims entering U.S. - CBS News




> Trump supporters in South Carolina would ban Islam, shut mosques and a third would prevent gays entering US | US elections | News | The Independent




Again, you keep trying your best to take a very small minority percentage of people and turn that into how the majority of Americans feel. I left that one link above as an example. First of all, even among Trump's supporters, as per YOUR link, a majority of them do NOT support banning Muslims or shutting down mosque. Read you own link, those are in fact, minority opinions among Trump’s South Carolina voters. It's a misleading headline from a well known, leftist, British source. Given the actual survey, the accurate headline would read,

*Even among white Evangelical conservative Trump supporters, a majority (60%) opposes their candidates proposal of banning Muslim entry into the US. An even greater majority solidly oppose any ban on homosexuals entering the US. They are evenly 50/50% split on the issue of mustard or vinegar based BBQ sauce. *

That last one was just 'cause I found it funny.  Secondly, as that poll was of almost exclusively white, mostly hard core Evangelical Protestant, South Carolina southerners, who are hard-right and active enough to bother to answer a poll based ON their activism, IOW, you are taking the opinions of a minority percentage of ONLY *827* total people surveyed, and then extrapolating that to say, _"See, the American people are all horribly bigoted and racists!"_ South Carolina's population: *4.9 million*. USA's population: *317 million*. And of those; *39+%* are Latino, Black, or other minorities. *827* white southerners is not reflective of their views.

It's bad math and faulty reasoning.

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## F-22Raptor

Sanders wins Kansas and Nebraska

Cruz wins Maine

Clinton wins Louisiana

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## Sky lord

Dalit said:


> I beg to differ entirely.
> 
> Exit poll: Three-quarters of S.C. GOP voters support Trump's Muslim ban
> 
> Measuring Donald Trump’s Supporters for Intolerance - NYTimes.com
> 
> Trump supporters in South Carolina would ban Islam, shut mosques and a third would prevent gays entering US | US elections | News | The Independent
> 
> A sizable white segment of the US society in many states supports banning Muslims from entering their country. Not all, but certainly a sizable segment. This aggrieved white segment might also have other reasons for supporting Trump, but banning Muslims is an overwhelming factor. The hate for Muslims is immense and intense.
> 
> I'm not confusing anything. First, people were doubting his very candidacy. Suddenly, they started realizing the huge crowds at Trump rallies. Then, came the shock when Trump started wining states. It is very easy to say now that Trump is going to be blown away by Hillary. This was also said during the GOP primaries, but the truth is quite the opposite.


At the end of the day, US voters have a right to have their voice heard on who does or does not come into their country, however bigoted or discriminatory it might seem to you or me.

It is what it is and they get to make their rules and run their country as they see fit.


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## ultron

delegates update

http://www.cnn.com/election/


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## F-22Raptor

Trump wins Louisiana and Kentucky. He only won by 3-5% over Cruz in those states. Rubio and Kasich need to drop out.


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## Desertfalcon

F-22Raptor said:


> Trump wins Louisiana and Kentucky. He only won by 3-5% over Cruz in those states. Rubio and Kasich need to drop out.


They do, and I have been a Rubio supporter. My state's GOP primary is this Tuesday and I may vote for Cruz just to try to stop Trump, if nothing else. 

It is still Trump's race to lose, however. Cruz has only won one actual primary outside of his home state, I believe. Caucus goers are more heavily, party faithful. Trump is stronger in the broader based primaries. The problem now for Cruz now is it is quickly turning to mostly primaries that are winner-take-all states, and they are mostly in states that are not "Cruz country".

*Canada announces their bid for the Presidency of the United States*

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## F-22Raptor

Desertfalcon said:


> They do, and I have been a Rubio supporter. My state's GOP primary is this Tuesday and I may vote for Cruz just to try to stop Trump, if nothing else.
> 
> It is still Trump's race to lose, however. Cruz has only won one actual primary outside of his home state, I believe. Caucus goers are more heavily, party faithful. Trump is stronger in the broader based primaries. The problem now for Cruz now is it is quickly turning to mostly primaries that are winner-take-all states, and they are mostly in states that are not "Cruz country".
> 
> *Canada announces their bid for the Presidency of the United States*



After looking at the numbers, Trump has only won over 40% of Republican votes in 4 of 19 states. It's clear to me that there are many Republicans that don't want Trump as their candidate. Trump is likely going to win the nomination, but do those 60%+ Republican voters that haven't voted for Trump fall in line in November and vote for him?


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## Desertfalcon

F-22Raptor said:


> After looking at the numbers, Trump has only won over 40% of Republican votes in 4 of 19 states. It's clear to me that there are many Republicans that don't want Trump as their candidate. Trump is likely going to win the nomination, but do those 60%+ Republican voters that haven't voted for Trump fall in line in November and vote for him?


I agree with your analysis, (Which is hard to explain to non-Americans). We have this weird open party system, where one can be opposed by a majority of Republicans......and still win the nomination. 

As to November, that is the $64,000 question. I will not be supporting Trump under any circumstances. I will write someone in. Better the GOP implode at the national level and have a giant 'come to Jesus' moment, then we help elect a dangerous megalomaniacal bigot, who will destroy the Party anyway. I detest the idea of Hillary in the White House, but she is less dangerous than Trump, and that says allot coming from me!

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## F-22Raptor

Since a Trump vs Clinton matchup is the most likely to occur in November, I decided to tally up the popular vote for both candidates in the states that have voted in both primaries to date. The only state I left off is Iowa because the Democrats never released the popular vote.

Trump has received 3.4 million votes to date.

Clinton has received 4.1 million votes to date.

How many votes each can gain from their opponents will be huge come fall.

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> Since a Trump vs Clinton matchup is the most likely to occur in November, I decided to tally up the popular vote for both candidates in the states that have voted in both primaries to date. The only state I left off is Iowa because the Democrats never released the popular vote.
> 
> Trump has received 3.4 million votes to date.
> 
> Clinton has received 4.1 million votes to date.
> 
> How many votes each can gain from their opponents will be huge come fall.



Trump vs Hillary is going to be a very close call. Mark my words.


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## ultron

delegates update

http://www.cnn.com/election/



F-22Raptor said:


> Since a Trump vs Clinton matchup is the most likely to occur in November, I decided to tally up the popular vote for both candidates in the states that have voted in both primaries to date. The only state I left off is Iowa because the Democrats never released the popular vote.
> 
> Trump has received 3.4 million votes to date.
> 
> Clinton has received 4.1 million votes to date.
> 
> How many votes each can gain from their opponents will be huge come fall.




Trump is from NYC. He can draw a LOT of non republican vote in the general election. A LOT more than any GOP career politician can.


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## Desertfalcon

Puerto Rico's Republican Party primary is today, March 6th. It will be interesting to see if Sen. Rubio can finally get his first primary win. I support him, but I think he's done, even if he does win P.R. The Democrat Party caucus in Maine is today as well. No stopping Hillary though.


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## ultron

I vote for Trump. People are sick and tired of Obama supporting Qaeda for the past 8 years. Time to take the gloves off and bomb them back to the fire age.


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## RabzonKhan

@Desertfalcon

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## Desertfalcon

RabzonKhan said:


> @Desertfalcon


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## F-22Raptor

Rubio won Puerto Rico.

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## T-123456

Desertfalcon said:


> Puerto Rico's Republican Party primary is today, March 6th. It will be interesting to see if Sen. Rubio can finally get his first primary win. I support him, but I think he's done, even if he does win P.R. The Democrat Party caucus in Maine is today as well. No stopping Hillary though.


Do you see anyone stopping Trump?

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## XenoEnsi-14

T-123456 said:


> Do you see anyone stopping Trump?


Dude, eat some tea and chill out... Link, we got this in General Election.

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## T-123456

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> Dude, *eat* some tea and chill out... Link, we got this in General Election.


Eat?

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## XenoEnsi-14

T-123456 said:


> Eat?


Yup, eat "T-E-A" with butter.

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## gambit

Desertfalcon said:


> As a conservative,...


When Obama was running for President, conservatives sneered at liberals for being so gullible for an amateur. Obama was elected because of the color of his skin, not of the content of his character. Liberals can admit that to each other only behind the sealed door of a bank vault.

That said...If Trump is elected, conservatives lost all moral standing and right to criticize liberals as gullible. Trump said he is not a politician. That is BS in its face. For a businessman of his public prominence and wealth, politics is as second nature to him as his ability to make deals towards his wealth. Trump and Obama are sides of the same coin when it comes to the gullibility factor. But Trump is even worse than Obama in the sense that Obama cannot be a conservative while Trump can be anyone and any type he needs to be, as long as he can achieve his goals. The American public can be assured that Obama will govern as an ideological liberal but there is not even a hint of assurance that Trump will govern as a conservative. Obama is honest while Trump is a chameleon.

In 1975, I was 12 yrs old when I came to the US and no English skill whatsoever. That means from a presidential politics perspective, I had no frame of reference. When I turned 18, I could not even use Carter as a frame of reference because I was busy growing up. It took Raygun and a few yrs in the USAF before I have a frame of reference in general, let alone what kind of politics I lean and how to assess a Presidential contender.

That is why I was dismayed when the American electorate chose Obama, not just because I do not care for his ideological beliefs, the ones that I fled from, but also because of his inexperience. Personally, I lean towards governors. Given how Trump is making progress, looks like I will be disappointed again.

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## T-123456

gambit said:


> When Obama was running for President, conservatives sneered at liberals for being so gullible for an amateur. Obama was elected because of the color of his skin, not of the content of his character. Liberals can admit that to each other only behind the sealed door of a bank vault.
> 
> That said...If Trump is elected, conservatives lost all moral standing and right to criticize liberals as gullible. Trump said he is not a politician. That is BS in its face. For a businessman of his public prominence and wealth, politics is as second nature to him as his ability to make deals towards his wealth. Trump and Obama are sides of the same coin when it comes to the gullibility factor. But Trump is even worse than Obama in the sense that Obama cannot be a conservative while Trump can be anyone and any type he needs to be, as long as he can achieve his goals. The American public can be assured that Obama will govern as an ideological liberal but there is not even a hint of assurance that Trump will govern as a conservative. Obama is honest while Trump is a chameleon.
> 
> In 1975, I was 12 yrs old when I came to the US and no English skill whatsoever. That means from a presidential politics perspective, I had no frame of reference. When I turned 18, I could not even use Carter as a frame of reference because I was busy growing up. It took Raygun and a few yrs in the USAF before I have a frame of reference in general, let alone what kind of politics I lean and how to assess a Presidential contender.
> 
> That is why I was dismayed when the American electorate chose Obama, not just because I do not care for his ideological beliefs, the ones that I fled from, but also because of his inexperience. Personally, I lean towards governors. Given how Trump is making progress, looks like I will be disappointed again.


What about Senator Cruz,doesnt he have a chance of being nominated?

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## XenoEnsi-14

T-123456 said:


> What about Senator Cruz,doesnt he have a chance of being nominated?


We would have to Conquer Canada first. @Hakan 

Hand over the maple trees.

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## Desertfalcon

T-123456 said:


> Do you see anyone stopping Trump?


Not really. Sen. Cruz is more likely to than anyone, but I don't really think he can at this point.



T-123456 said:


> What about Senator Cruz,doesnt he have a chance of being nominated?



See above ^

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## F-22Raptor

Sanders won Maine


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## Nattmara

F-22Raptor said:


> Sanders won Maine



No surprise, Sanders does well in majority white, liberal states. But the delegate count for Maine is small right? This isn't a major coup for Sanders by any stretch.

@F-22Raptor assuming Sanders wins the remaining majority white states, but loses the states that have a minority population of greater than 8% - which Sanders has yet to win - what's the final delegate count (excluding superdelegates) for both Sanders and Clinton?

Clinton would still have more right? Because the states with significant minority populations have more delegates, are larger states, and Clinton wins by a larger percentage and with the Democrats delegate awarding system, would see Clinton get more delegates for a large victory.

What is each projected to end up with? Too bad Sanders isn't running here, I'd vote for him.


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## RabzonKhan

*Republican Presidential Debate Fox News GOP Debate Mar 3, 16 Trump, Cruz, Rubio and Kasich






CNN GOP Democratic Debate in Flint, Michigan Mar 6, 16
*


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## Nattmara

Trump is a wiener, but I found this funny.

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## RabzonKhan

*





Delegate count: *


*Democrats need 2383 to win.*


Hillary Clinton 1,134 delegates.

Bernie Sanders 499.

*
Republicans 1237 to win.*

Trump 384 delegates.

Cruz 300.

Rubio 151.

Kasich 37.


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## XenoEnsi-14

RabzonKhan said:


> *
> View attachment 297449
> 
> 
> Delegate count: *
> 
> 
> *Democrats need 2383 to win.*
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton 1,134 delegates.
> 
> Bernie Sanders 499.
> 
> *
> Republicans 1237 to win.*
> 
> Trump 384 delegates.
> 
> Cruz 300.
> 
> Rubio 151.
> 
> Kasich 37.


This is Primary election, not General election. Democrats and Republicans are not going against each other, they are simply trying to get the best Rep./ Democrat candidate for the General Election.

Why do Republicans require less than Democrats? Your comment makes no sense.



Nattmara said:


> Trump is a *wiener*, but I found this funny.


Men who have to act like Macho Men..... lack what's in bold ^^^^^^.


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## F-22Raptor

Clinton wins Mississippi


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## T-123456

So Hillary against ?


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## F-22Raptor

T-123456 said:


> So Hillary against ?



Trump most likely...

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## XenoEnsi-14

T-123456 said:


> So Hillary against ?


Toupée.

Not including the 3rd parties, which everyone thinks don't exist.

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## T-123456

F-22Raptor said:


> Trump most likely...


Then Hillary wins and it all stays the same?



XenoEnsi-14 said:


> Toupée.
> 
> Not including the 3rd parties, which everyone thinks don't exist.


Throw @XenoEnsi-14 out please,throw him out.

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## F-22Raptor

Trump wins Mississippi


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## ultron

delegates update

http://www.cnn.com/election/


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## F-22Raptor

Trump wins Michigan


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## XenoEnsi-14

T-123456 said:


> Then Hillary wins and it all stays the same?


I'm not sure what universe you reside in but it's not this one.


T-123456 said:


> Throw @XenoEnsi-14 out please,throw him out.


 ........ .....

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## T-123456

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> I'm not sure what universe you reside in but it's not this one.
> 
> ........ .....


Wanna bet?
I got the last 3 right btw,just a heads up.

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## XenoEnsi-14

T-123456 said:


> I got the last 3 right btw,just a heads up.


Yup sure you did, in hindsight.

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## F-22Raptor

Sanders won Michigan.

That's surprising considering multiple polls had her up double digits there.

Clinton still walked away with more delegates tonight though. Does Sanders win tonight carry over into next Tuesday?

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## Chevil

If I was an Americans , I would vote for Trump ... as an Iranian , I don't see any difference , all of them are ****


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## Desertfalcon

Trump won Michigan, Mississippi, and Hawaii, losing only my state of Idaho to Sen. Cruz. (I actually wound up voting for Gov. Kasich, btw.). Sen. Rubio didn't even finish second anywhere, so I think he is really done. Kasich may win his home state, but I think Trump is close to sealing the nomination. I don't think Cruz can even come close to beating him now that the contests move to northern and west coast states that are mostly, winner-take-all.

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## Darmashkian

Desertfalcon said:


> Trump won Michigan, Mississippi, and Hawaii, losing only my state of Idaho to Sen. Cruz. (I actually wound up voting for Gov. Kasich, btw.). Sen. Rubio didn't even finish second anywhere, so I think he is really done. Kasich may win his home state, but I think Trump is close to sealing the nomination. I don't think Cruz can even come close to beating him now that the contests move to northern and west coast states that are mostly, winner-take-all.


I know I dont have much business talking about the Presidential elections of the parties of your nation.

But if i was a republican,I would vote Kasich. He seems more sensible,experienced & authentic compared to the others.
-----------------------------
Are you a republican & do u support Trump for President?? 

If u ask me, from a govt./policy point of view he doesn't know much. He seems to be more of a sloganeer & a demagogue.
But from an electoral politics/political point of view, he is damn smart(I am an amateur psephologist).


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## ultron

Woohoo. I voted for Trump. I am fascist. Fascism is not a bad word. Fascism is discipline.

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## T-72M1

ultron said:


> Woohoo. I voted for Trump. I am fascist. Fascism is not a bad word. Fascism is discipline.


I thought you were Chinese Canadian ?

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## ultron

T-72M1 said:


> I thought you were Chinese Canadian ?




China is very disciplined. China is the opposite of a liberal country.


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## Desertfalcon

Darmashkian said:


> I know I dont have much business talking about the Presidential elections of the parties of your nation.
> 
> But if i was a republican,I would vote Kasich. He seems more sensible,experienced & authentic compared to the others.
> -----------------------------
> Are you a republican & do u support Trump for President??
> 
> If u ask me, from a govt./policy point of view he doesn't know much. He seems to be more of a sloganeer & a demagogue.
> But from an electoral politics/political point of view, he is damn smart(I am an amateur psephologist).


No, I most definitely do not support Trump. As I said in my post you quoted, I voted for Kasich and for the same reasons you state about him.

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## Dalit

Trump inching closer to nomination. I can't wait for this guy to win the presidency. I love his poisonous Pakistan rhetoric. Let's get it on.


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## T-72M1

ultron said:


> China is very disciplined. China is the opposite of a liberal country.


Russia is a big country, 17.1 million square kilometers

I suppose this means you must have voted for Putin as well ?


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## Sky lord

Like @Darmashkian said - it is not my business- but if I had the vote and I had to chose between Trump and Cruz - which is what the effective choice has boiled down to - then I would vote Trump.

Cruz is a snake! ...and these belligerent evangelicals who believe that man and dinosaurs co existed and close down abortion clinics need to be marginalized or forced to come to terms with the 21st century.

Trump caters to these people, but I don't think he believes it. He is a liberal New. Yorker at heart. 


ultron said:


> China is very disciplined. China is the opposite of a liberal country.


Discipline is great so long as it is fair and you are not at the receiving end.

The best discipline is that imposed on people we don't agree with.


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## ultron

delegates update

http://www.cnn.com/election/


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## XenoEnsi-14

ultron said:


> Woohoo. I voted for Trump. I am fascist. Fascism is not a bad word. Fascism is discipline.


You mean fashion? That's the one that requires discipline. Trump is hardly a fashionista.

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## Nattmara

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> You mean fashion? That's the one that requires discipline. Trump is hardly a fashionista.



True. He'd have a hell of a time finding a good watch to go with his tiny, baby hands.







I can't tell what's more disgusting about him. His policies? Or his hair and skin?


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## T-72M1

Nattmara said:


> His policies?


which of his policies do you have a problem with ? 

apart from his unenforceable 'muslim ban' thing, which I thought was a terrible thing, he's pretty good on foreign policy otherwise.

Trump dumps the Saudi royals, it'll be glorious


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## Dalit

Muslim Americans Grapple With Implications of Donald Trump Victories

Can't wait for Trump to win it all. The amount of hatred and polarization that is going to take place is unimaginable. The amount of xenophobia that Trump's campaign has already awoken is simply put mindboggling. It is going to be a tough place being a Muslim in the US. Blacks, Mexicans, Muslims and other certain minorities are going to be in big big trouble in Trump's white America.

This is a war for America’s soul: Donald Trump reflects frustrations of an embittered white America - Salon.com

Democrats and Republicans alike are today reaping what they have sown for decades. Feeding war, invasion, economic stagnation and frustration to the common man. Look at them now. The pathetic, desperate and feeble attempts to scramble against and divert the masses from voting for Trump. 

Donald Trump Must Be Stopped, Conservatives, Liberals Both Urge

Trump is the Frankenstein that the establishment has created and now they are unable to stop it from taking over their country. I can envisage wars and unprecedented bloodshed with Trump at the helm. It doesn't take Houdini to predict that.

Icing on top of the cake is his vicious and immensely deep seethed hate for Pakistan. I can't even begin to comprehend how low this relationship is going to sink after Trump's win of the White House. Imagine Trump aiding India against Pakistan which he clearly intends to do. An all out war. Hostility, suspicion and enmity at its height. The dangerous threats he has already delivered against Pakistan are clear as crystal. Let's see how the Noora's and other American puppets react to this very real possibility. Right now the American puppets are all hush and observant. I really hope Trump wins it and the ugly truth unfolds before our very eyes. One or the other day this was bound to happen. After all, the truth can only be disguised for so long.

Some Americans are seriously considering moving after Trump's possible win.

Anti-Donald Trump sentiment gives big boost to Canadian tourism - Business - CBC News


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## RabzonKhan

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> This is Primary election, not General election. Democrats and Republicans are not going against each other, they are simply trying to get the best Rep./ Democrat candidate for the General Election.


Lol, I know, this is not general elections, but caucuses and primaries that the Democrat and Republican’s use to select their candidates for general election.

You may want to check some of my posts on this thread:

US Presidential Elections 2016 News and Views | Page 6

post 76

US Presidential Elections 2016 News and Views | Page 13

post 185





> Why do Republicans require less than Democrats? Your comment makes no sense.


First of all, I did not make those numbers, they are from, AP and CNN, lol, and I’m little surprised that you don’t even know the very basics of the US election process?! 

If I give you a detailed answer, it can take almost 5 pages, so I’ll try to be as brief as I can.

The reasons Republicans have fewer delegates than Democrats is because the way they award their delegates is different.

For example, Republicans let states decide how to allocate delegates, and that is quite complicated, since some states use a winner take all (delegates) rule, some use proportional rule and then there are others that use combination of both rules.

Democrats have a proportional rule, for example, candidates get delegates in proportion to their vote share in the states caucuses or primaries.

And then to make things more complicated, there are superdelegates, the Democrats superdelegates are free to vote for any Democrat candidate they want, on the other hand, the Republicans delegates are awarded to candidates based on primary and caucus results.

And because of these different rules, the Republicans have a total of 2,472 delegates, so to win the Republican nomination, a candidate will need 1,237 (more than 50%) delegates.

The Democrats have a total of 4,765 delegates, to win the Democratic nomination, a candidate will need 2,383 (more than 50%) delegates.

I hope I answered your question.

Here is a link for you, if you want to read more on the subject:

Everything you need to know about delegate math in the presidential primary - The Washington Post



Here are two websites (AP and CNN) that tracks delegate:

Associated Press Interactive


http://www.cnn.com/election/

Cheers!


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## RabzonKhan

*Challenges for Trump vs. Clinton: Favorability, Attributes and More (POLL)

A rougher road to his party’s nomination isn’t Donald Trump’s only challenge: He faces trouble in a hypothetical general election contest as well, trailing Hillary Clinton in personal ratings, facing 2-1 opposition on his signature policy issues and falling short in vote preference and expectations alike.






Among key attributes, while just 37 percent of Americans see Clinton as honest and trustworthy, that goes even lower for Trump, to 27 percent. Trump essentially remains there (25 or 26 percent) on other items -- understanding the problems of average Americans, possessing the kind of personality and temperament it takes to serve effectively as president and having the right experience. Clinton, by contrast, advances to 49, 58 and 66 percent on these, respectively.











Trump’s challenged, as well, by the fact that Americans by 63-33 percent oppose his suggestion to temporarily ban Muslims from entering the country, and by 61-36 percent disagree with the mass deportation of undocumented immigrants. Those views are closer among registered voters, but still with majorities opposed, 60 and 58 percent, respectively.*


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## RabzonKhan

*No, Trump, Islam Doesn’t Hate America
*
*DEAN OBEIDALLAH
Mar 10 2016

The Donald told CNN that Islam hates America. Like the Muslims who fight and die for, and otherwise serve, this country? Outrageous.
*
Donald Trump took his anti-Muslim jihad to a new, bone-chilling level on Wednesday night. That’s when he declared to CNN’s Anderson Cooper that “[URL='http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/09/politics/donald-trump-islam-hates-us/index.html']Islam hates us.” Trump is wrong, but let me blunt. I hate Trump. Not because he demonizes Muslims, but because he’s a threat to our nation’s soul.

If Trump truly thinks “Islam hates us,” then he should tell that to the families of Muslim Americans who have died for our country. I doubt Trump has the balls to tell the family of U.S. Army Capt. Humayun Khan, who received the Purple Heart and is buried in Arlington National Cemetery after being killed in Iraq in 2004. And let’s see Trump tell that to the family of Corp. Kareem Khan, who also received the Purple Heart and is buried in Arlington after giving his life in 2007 in defense of our nation.

Does Trump even have the courage to tell the Muslims who have volunteered to serve our nation, including my cousin who served in the U.S. Marines, that they hate America? In fact, almost 6,000 Muslims are currently serving in our armed forces fighting to ensure that all Americans—not just ones of certain faiths—have the same rights.

Will Trump tell the Muslims serving in our Congress, Keith Ellison and Andre Carson, that they hate America? Will he say that to the thousands of Muslims serving as police officers, paramedics, judges, schoolteachers, and others in professions designed to help the people of our nation?

Nah, Trump won’t ever do that because bullies are cowards. But what Trump despicably did during his interview on CNN was to paint all Muslims as potential threats to our country. “It’s very hard to define” and “very hard to separate” the good from the bad Muslims, “because you don’t know who’s who,” Trump stated.

I want you to think about what Trump is saying here. The GOP frontrunner is telling Americans to fear every single Muslim because any one of them might be plotting to kill you and your family. If you believe Trump’s words, what’s the next likely step? Trump has already proposed policies to discriminate against Muslim Americans, which polls show his supporters overwhelmingly support. What could be in store next for American Muslims?

Maybe because I recently read an article saying that Trump, according to his ex-wife, kept by his bedside a book of Hitler’s speeches that the Fuhrer gave during his ascent to power, I couldn’t help but wonder, What did Jews living in Germany when Hitler first sought office think? Did they dismiss his extreme rhetoric as nothing more than political talk to get the support of people? Or were they frightened, like many Muslim Americans are today?

To be clear, I’m am in no way saying that if he became president, Trump would be like Hitler, seizing emergency powers and worse. But perhaps we need to pause as a nation when Anne Frank’s stepsister, Eva Schloss, an Auschwitz survivor, warned us in January that Trump “is acting like another Hitler by inciting racism.”

But Trump’s hate has not just been about Muslims. His campaign from Day One can best be best summed up as putting minorities back in their place. That’s why we have seen white supremacists flock to Trump’s side. For example, the vile white supremacist leader Jared Taylor, a man who publicly endorsed Trump and has made robocalls on Trump’s’ behalf, wrote a few months ago: “Donald Trump may be the last hope for a president who would be good for white people.”

And Trump has given these hatemongers exactly what they have been dreaming of for years. He has stirred up hate versus Latinos, implying that they were coming to rape your wives and daughters. He has defended his white supporters in November beating up a Black Lives Matter protester and calling the man a “monkey” and the n-word. And we just saw Trump refuse to denounce the support of former Klan leader David Duke.

But let’s return to Trump’s comment that Islam hates us. Are there a fraction of Muslims who hate our nation? No doubt. Is that because of Islam, a religion that came into being over a thousand years before America was founded? The counter-terrorism experts I have spoken to have made it clear that the anger directed against our nation is generally grounded in foreign policy grievances or personal issues such as wanting to join an organization that makes them feel a sense of self worth. But there are a fraction of radical religious leaders who will try to teach younger Muslims that somehow America is a religious-based enemy. We must be united to countering their hateful message, not divided along religious lines as ISIS hopes we become.

Perhaps Trump is simply making the remarks about Muslims now because the GOP race is tightening and he knows bashing Muslims plays well with the GOP base. Trump noted as much after Ben Carson stated in October that no Muslim should be president of the United States, and he got a big boost in the polls. Trump then remarked, Carson’s “been getting a lot of ink on the Muslims… I guess people look at that and they probably like it.” Within weeks Trump began first using Muslims as a scapegoat.

Or perhaps Trump’s info comes from Frank Gaffney, whose poll Trump read from on the campaign trail about alleged hatred of Muslims. Gaffney is a discredited figure whom the Southern Poverty Law Center recently listed as the leader of an Anti-Muslim group. And Gaffney has also been a supporter of the very same White Supremacy leader, Jared Taylor, who has been campaigning for Trump. As the SPLC notes, Gaffney invited Taylor on his radio show and has heaped praise upon his work that promotes “anti-Black and anti-Latino racists.”

No, Islam doesn’t hate America. But Trump clearly hates American values.

[/URL]

*
*


----------



## RabzonKhan

*How the world sees Trump, in cartoons*

*



*
Bulgaria, Christo Komarnitski







UAE, Paresh Nath/The Khaleej Times






Australia, David Rowe/Financial Review






Ireland, Dan Murphy






Scotland, Brian Adcock/The Independent,

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## Dalit

One after the other endorsing Trump... Muslim hating dream team in the making.


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## RabzonKhan

*Hillary Clinton has won* the Democratic caucus on the Northern Mariana Islands. The U.S. territory located in the Pacific Ocean near Guam held its vote Saturday. Clinton received 54 percent of 189 votes cast to earn four of the six delegates at stake. Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders picked up two delegates.

Heading into a batch of delegate-rich states on Tuesday, Clinton now has 766 delegates to Sanders’ 551, based on primaries and caucuses alone.

*When including superdelegates — party leaders who can support any candidate — Clinton’s lead is even bigger: 1,227 to Sanders’ 576.*

The Northern Mariana Islands is one of five U.S. territories that help choose the Democratic nominee, even though they don’t get a vote in the November general election. It has a population of 52,000.






Dalit said:


> One after the other endorsing Trump... Muslim hating dream team in the making.


I’m not surprised at all, a religious fanatic hater endorse a racist fascist hater.


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## RabzonKhan

I blame Trump’s divisive hateful rhetoric for violence in his rallies, at one of his rallies, he told his supporters to “knock the crap out of” a protester, and at another, he said “I’d like to punch him in the face, I tell ya”, the point is, why there is no violence in Hillary, Rubio, Bernie, Cruz and Kasich rallies?!

As I have been saying, this man is a bigger threat to our country than our enemies.

Our greatest strength is our diversity, our enemies like it or not, but without any doubt, United States truly is a melting pot, we cannot allow a fascist to destroy our greatest strength.

Almost all the presidential candidates have criticized Trump for the violence:

*Hillary Clinton* is charging Republican front-runner Donald Trump with encouraging "violence and aggression," saying his heated political rhetoric is "wrong and it's dangerous."

Clinton called heated protests last night at his rally in Chicago "deeply disturbing." She says voters must stand up to "this tide of bullying and bigotry and blustering that is going on in our political strategy."

She is telling campaign volunteers in St. Louis on Saturday morning: "If you play with matches, you're going to start a fire you can't control."

John Kasich (KAY’-sihk) seems to be running out of patience when it comes to Donald Trump.

The Ohio governor blames Trump for creating what Kasich calls ‘ “toxic environment” in the presidential race.

Kasich is suggesting he may not support Trump should the businessman become the GOP nominee.

He says during a stop in Cincinnati that there’s “no place for a national leader to prey on the fears of people.”

*Rubio* says that some of the blame for what happened Friday night in Chicago lies with the protesters, but he says much of the divisiveness is in Trump's hands.

Rubio says Trump is feeding into some voters' anger and bitterness and is manipulating that for votes.

*Ted Cruz* of Texas said on Friday that Donald J. Trump bore responsibility for “creating an environment” that encourages violence at his events.

*Bernie Sanders *denounced Donald Trump as the head of a “vicious movement” At a press conference inChicagoon Saturday morning, the Democratic candidate for president said the Republican frontrunner had stoked racial enmity for political gain.

“What the Trump campaign has been about is insulting Mexicans in a very crude way, it’s been about insulting African Americans,” he said.


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## T-72M1

It was Bernie Sanders' supporters who caused the violence, Trump cancelling the event stole the media spotlight and he was able to reach far more people on tv than he would have through the event itself, The Donald wins again


----------



## T-72M1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/708817118150537216


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## RabzonKhan

Ted Cruz won most of the delegates at stake in Saturday's Republican county conventions in Wyoming.

The Texas senator won nine of the 12 delegates that were up for grabs. Florida Sen. Marco Rubio and billionaire businessman Donald Trump won one apiece. One delegate was uncommitted.

The Associated Press is not declaring a winner in Wyoming on Saturday because another 14 of the state's delegates will be awarded at the party's state convention on April 16.

Trump leads the overall race for delegates with 460. Cruz has 369, Rubio has 153 and John Kasich has 54.

*It takes 1,237 delegates to win the Republican nomination for president.*


*Marco Rubio* won the Washington, D.C., Republican caucus Saturday, marking the Florida senator's third win in the presidential race. Rubio previously won the Minnesota caucus and the Puerto Rico primary.

Rubio got 37 percent, followed by Ohio Gov. John Kasich at 36 percent. Donald Trump got 14 percent and Ted Cruz got 12 percent, with 100 percent of the vote in.


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## Nattmara

T-72M1 said:


> which of his policies do you have a problem with ?



It's that he doesn't have any that's more concerning to me. I can overlook his conservative traits. I'm as liberal as you'll find in Europe, so that's just a matter of ideology, which is fine to me. We all have different views on money, business, and so on. Though I find the common stance on climate change to be worthy of ridicule.

He flip-flops on his policies even during debates, proposes outlandish and illegal reforms like making the military return to torture - which they refuted and struck down as ineffective - Trump flip-flopped on that too. His "border wall" is a fantasy that's pandering to nationalistic sentiments. He's in favor of increasing taxes on the middle class and lowering them for the upper class, which isn't popular with Americans either.

His incitement of violence and refusal to disavow racists isn't exactly comforting either.






Rather then take responsibility for and onus for reducing, Trump has pinned the violence at his rallies on others.

Ironically, having Ben Carson endorse him probably lost Trump the KKK vote.

The man has no concrete policies that'd actually work, beyond bigotry. He's just pandering to Nationalism, which never turns out well. His movement has a lot of parallels with the rise of German Nationalism in the 1930s. And no, I don't think that's an extreme comparison.

Here's a better question; what do you like about him and his policies? As popular as it is on this forum, there's nothing to suggest Trump would be good for India either. No matter his pro-business stance, he's also noted that returning US jobs from overseas, including from China and India, is in the US' best interest... though he doesn't have the authority to do that either. He may be hard on Pakistan or China, more likely China, but that doesn't mean he'd be good for India either.

And no, I don't consider any of the other candidates to be any better. Sanders would be good if running in Europe, and just another Labor Party member, but he's yet to demonstrate how his socialist platforms would translate to a nation the size of the US. Clinton's a hawk, Cruz is too evangelical and Rubio is done.

Europe considers Clinton or Sanders the best case scenario. I'd favor Sanders in Europe and Clinton in the US.

...

Once again, Polandball has a great take on Trumpism.








Sky lord said:


> Discipline is great so long as it is fair and you are not at the receiving end.
> 
> The best discipline is that imposed on people we don't agree with.



Ironically, a disciplined nation doesn't need their government forcing discipline upon them.

Where does disciplined end and repressed begin?

...

@F-22Raptor @Desertfalcon @Hamartia Antidote Any points to add? Critique? Correct?

Takk.

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## Armstrong

Nattmara said:


> @F-22Raptor @Desertfalcon @Hamartia Antidote Any points to add? Critique? Correct?
> 
> Takk.



Oh you're just jealous of Trump 'cause he can pull off an orange tan unlike any Norge !

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## Desertfalcon

Nattmara said:


> Any points to add? Critique? Correct?


Not really. I approach Trump from the perspective of a conservative/Republican Party member but I agree with what you say. Trump has no real ideology. He is not a conservative, for sure! He is a "Trumpite". A megalomaniac. I don't even necessarily believe what he says, much of the time. I just think he is an opportunist.

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## Nattmara

Armstrong said:


> Oh you're just jealous of Trump 'cause he can pull off an orange tan unlike any Norge !



Oh contraire! Nords orange better than anyone. We also look as terrible as everyone when we do.






Seriously girl. I usually recommend people get out of their house and get some Sun, but I think you need to say in more!

That squirrel on Trump's head does compliment his leathery, tangerine skin very nicely though.

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## Armstrong

Nattmara said:


> Oh contraire! Nords orange better than anyone. We also look as terrible as everyone when we do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously girl.
> 
> That squirrel on Trump's head does compliment his leathery, tangerine skin very nicely though.



You didn't answer my post in the whatever thread !  

And no Nords don't tan well...I've got a few Nordic friends here...leave them out in the sun for too long and they look as red as a baboon's butt !

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## Nattmara

Armstrong said:


> And no Nords don't tan well...I've got a few Nordic friends here...leave them out in the sun for too long and they look as red as a baboon's butt !



Hmm, this is true. Nords do feel the Bern. Many of us do tan well though, and burn even easier. We're like bread. There's a fine line between this:






And this:








Armstrong said:


> You didn't answer my post in the whatever thread !



I thought it was rhetorical.

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## Armstrong

Nattmara said:


> Hmm, this is true. Nords do feel the Bern. Many of us do tan well though, and burn even easier. We're like bread. There's a fine line between this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this:



 



Nattmara said:


> I thought it was rhetorical.



Yes but no indication of whether you read it or not ?  

It broke my tiny heart !  

Techno would never do that !

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## T-72M1

Nattmara said:


> It's that he doesn't have any that's more concerning to me. I can overlook his conservative traits. I'm as liberal as you'll find in Europe, so that's just a matter of ideology, which is fine to me. We all have different views on money, business, and so on. Though I find the common stance on climate change to be worthy of ridicule.


I'm very liberal when it comes to social issues too but extremely skeptical of the man made carbon emissions = global warming = no more maldives, new zealand and miami soon claim.

environmental pollution =/= rising sea levels, those are 2 different things, and that's a different conversation/debate altogether..



Nattmara said:


> illegal reforms like making the military return to torture


groups like isis and the so called Syrian rebels deserve no Geneva treatment, I'm on board with the US easing their 'rules of engagement' when going after these people. 

Currently most US sorties fly back with their full load-outs because they weren't cleared to bomb, not good.



Nattmara said:


> His incitement of violence and refusal to disavow racists isn't exactly comforting either. Ironically, having Ben Carson endorse him probably lost Trump the KKK vote


but the violence was from radical leftist Bernie supporters

I was hoping Ben Carson's endorsement would have put an end to the KKK allegations

watch these:

















Nattmara said:


> The man has no concrete policies that'd actually work. He's just pandering to Nationalism, which never turns out well. His movement has a lot of parallels with the rise of German Nationalism in the 1930s. And no, I don't think that's an extreme comparison.


he is a nationalist, I also feel that ultra nationalism is a bad thing but, really ? comparing him to Hitler is a bit much

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Nattmara said:


> Here's a better question; what do you like about him and his policies? As popular as it is on this forum, there's nothing to suggest Trump would be good for India either. No matter his pro-business stance, he's also noted that returning US jobs from overseas, including from China and India, is in the US' best interest... though he doesn't have the authority to do that either. He may be hard on Pakistan or China, more likely China, but that doesn't mean he'd be good for India either.


honestly, I'm not watching this from a 'how he would be for India' perspective, 'India' figures very low in all this but I did find this bit interesting:

watch 4:20 onward:





I support Trump because he took on the neocons and went viciously after the Bush administration, and because he's questioned the current US position on Syria (supporting the 'rebels' etc) and calling out Turkey for ties to ISIS

Donald Trump 2016 foreign policy: He aligns with Vladimir Putin in accusing Turkey of siding with ISIL - POLITICO








Nattmara said:


> And no, I don't consider any of the other candidates to be any better. Sanders would be good if running in Europe, and just another Labor Party member, but he's yet to demonstrate how his socialist platforms would translate to a nation the size of the US. Clinton's a hawk, Cruz is too evangelical and Rubio is done.


the rest of them are all the same, on both sides

Trump has also said he'll be neutral and will try and hammer out an Israeli-Palestinian deal

Trump Says He Could Negotiate Israel-Palestine Deal by Being More Neutral


look, I don't agree with all of what he's had to say, his commentary on Islam is particularly disconcerting but he's just playing for the republican base in the primaries for now, they're not electing a king, he'll have to work within the constitutional framework, and overall I think he'll be good.

what we're witnessing here is the US electorate shaking off the ultra PC left as well as the ultra right war hawk neocons





good stuff, tremendous democracy !


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## Nattmara

Armstrong said:


> Yes but no indication of whether you read it or not ?
> 
> It broke my tiny heart !
> 
> Techno would never do that !



I'll read it now and respond in the morning. Unlike my other I'm not an insomniac.

My tag alerts don't seem to be working.

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## Armstrong

Nattmara said:


> I'll read it now and respond in the morning. Unlike my other I'm not an insomniac.
> 
> My tag alerts don't seem to be working.



Sleep well ! 

How is she doing ? I miss her ! 

She doesn't even drop by to say Hi to an old friend !


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## Nattmara

Armstrong said:


> Sleep well !



Oi! You're keeping me up! The things women do for men.

Thanks, good night to you as well!!!



Armstrong said:


> How is she doing ? I miss her !



Moody. Overall well, and in good health, but... .



Armstrong said:


> She doesn't even drop by to say Hi to an old friend !



Convince her I'll try, but she's active on other forums too. I've linked to another, she's also got a Facebook account - assuming you know her real name.

I don't know why she left here, but she was grumpy for a while afterwards. Someone or something happen?

See you in the afternoon tomorrow. And if you're in the UK and in college!!! Get some rest, you need it more then I do!

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## RabzonKhan

Good news for America, bad news for Turmp! 
*



Poll shows that millennials would flock to Clinton against Trump
*
WASHINGTON — Vermont Sen. Bernie Sandershas expanded his double-digit lead among millennials in the Democratic presidential race, but a new USA TODAY/Rock the Vote poll finds a way forHillary Clinton to solve her generation gap: Donald Trump.

*Opposition to Trump nearly unites the rising generation.*

*In a hypothetical Clinton v. Trump contest in November, voters under 35 would choose Clinton by a crushing 52%-19%, a preference that crosses demographic lines. Among whites, she'd be backed by nearly 2-1, 45%-26%. Among Hispanics, by more than 4-1, 61%-14%. Among Asian Americans, by 5-1, 60%-11%. Among African Americans, by 13-1, 67%-5%.*

And the yawning gender gap she has against Sanders would vanish: Clinton would carry young men and women by almost identical margins of more than 2-1.

Nearly one in four Republicans would defect to the Democrats if the GOP nominated Trump against Clinton. Just 7% of Democrats would defect to the GOP.

"Trump would kind of make a mockery out of America," worries Cameron Lee Craig, 25, a stay-at-home mom from Amelia, Ohio, who was among those surveyed. "He's kind of a jerk."

The poll, the second in a series, is part of USA TODAY's One Nation initiative, a series of forums across the country on the most important issues of 2016. The online survey, taken by Ipsos March 3-10, polled 1,541 adults ages 18 to 34.

Sanders now leads Clinton among younger voters by 54%-37%, an even bigger advantage than the 11-point edge he held in January's survey. Millennial women now back Sanders by a jaw-dropping 61%-30% while the divide among millennial men is much closer, 48%-44%.

"He's a people-person and will bring a freshness to the country," Tracy Wanjiku, 21, a caregiver from Alameda, Calif., says in explaining her support for Sanders. But in a Clinton-Trump stand-off in November, she says, "I would vote for Hillary — not that I'm in much favor of her, but I think Donald Trump ... his idea of politics is way too over-the-top. It's scary, to be honest." *Read more*

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## RabzonKhan

*Top liberal leaders call for 'massive' anti-Trump campaign*

*
'This is a five-alarm fire for our democracy,' reads the letter signed by top officials of groups like MoveOn.org and the Service Employees International Union.
*
By Gabriel Debenedetti
03/15/16

CHICAGO — Leaders of more than 20 leading liberal groups supporting both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are set to release a scathing letter on Tuesday that serves as a progressive call to arms against Donald Trump, imploring Americans to undertake a unified set of concrete steps to oppose the Republican front-runner — from protesting to organizing large-scale voter turnout efforts.
*“This is a five-alarm fire for our democracy. A hate-peddling bigot who openly incites violence is the likely presidential nominee of one of our nation’s two major parties. It is alarming and dangerous. Donald Trump’s candidacy is a threat to the America we love, and we must respond to him and what he is stoking as such,” *reads the letter, which was obtained first by POLITICO. It is signed by top officials of Sanders-backing groups like MoveOn.org and Clinton-backing organizations including the Service Employees International Union.
Many of these groups have primarily focused on mobilizing their millions of members — and spending significant sums of money — for their preferred candidate in the Democratic primary thus far. The letter recognizes a significant shift in thinking among them, with leaders in the party’s left wing now setting their sights more squarely on Trump rather than the protracted battle between Clinton and Sanders. The signatures are acknowledgments from leaders of those organizations that the time has come to more seriously confront Trump — who could, they warn, actually win.

“Today we are calling for a massive nonviolent mobilization of working people, students, immigrants, children of immigrants, great-great-grandchildren of immigrants, people of color and white people, the unemployed and under-employed, people of faith, retirees, veterans, women, and men — anyone who opposes bigotry and hate and loves freedom and justice — to stand up to Trump’s bullying and bigotry,” the note continues. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

Another Tuesday, another big voting day in the 2016 presidential race. 

Five states — *Florida, Illinois, Missouri, North Carolina, and Ohio* — host both Republican and Democratic nominating contests.

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## F-22Raptor

Trump and Clinton win Florida

Rubio has suspended his campaign.

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## C130

RabzonKhan said:


> It’s good to see that the majority of us agree that Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders are not competent to lead our country.
> 
> Bty, Trump was the biggest loser in the debate, every time he opened his mouth he was booed loudly, serves him right.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 294622
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *FULL CBS GOP Debate, 9th Republican Presidential Debate
> February 13, 2016 in South Carolina
> 
> *




I disagree. Trump and Bernie are scaring the crap out of the establishment and that should tell you something.

It would be interesting if Trump and Bernie joined forces.


Bernie as President and Trump as Vice President. 


Making America Great Again 2016

sticking it to the establishment

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## F-22Raptor

Clinton wins North Carolina

Kasich and Clinton wins Ohio

Trump wins Illinois and North Carolina

Clinton wins Illinois

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## CHD



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## XenoEnsi-14

F-22Raptor said:


> Trump and Clinton win Florida


I want to leave this state.

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## RabzonKhan

Tuesday was a great day for Hillary, after her significant loss to Bernie in Michigan a week earlier, she won primaries in Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, Illinois, and Missouri.

So far, Hillary has 1,599 delegates, 784 delegates short to win the Democratic nomination. Bernie has 844 and needs 1,539 delegates to win the Democratic nomination.

On 3/22/2016, the next primaries will be held in Arizona, Utah and caucus in Idaho. 



C130 said:


> I disagree. Trump and Bernie are scaring the crap out of the establishment and that should tell you something.
> 
> It would be interesting if Trump and Bernie joined forces.
> 
> 
> Bernie as President and Trump as Vice President.
> 
> 
> Making America Great Again 2016
> 
> sticking it to the establishment


A big mouth filthy rich becoming a running mate of a hard-core socialist, now, that’s not going to happen in a million years!


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## RabzonKhan

I told you so, he is a disaster candidate and he’ll be a disaster “president”.



*The Economist rates Trump presidency among its top 10 global risks*

By DANIEL LIPPMAN 03/16/16 
*A Donald Trump presidency poses a top-10 risk event that could disrupt the world economy, lead to political chaos in the U.S. and heighten security risks for the United States, according to the Economist Intelligence Unit.*
*Electing Trump could also start a trade war, hurt trade with Mexico and be a godsend to terrorist recruiters in the Middle East, according to the latest EIU forecasts.*
The well-respected global economic and geopolitical analysis firm put a possible Trump presidency in its top 10 global risks this month, released Wednesday. Other risks include a sharp slowdown in the Chinese economy, a fracture of the Eurozone, and Britain's possible departure from the European Union.
*Trump’s controversial remarks on Muslims would be a gift to “potential recruiters who have long been trying to paint the U.S. as an anti-Muslim country. His rhetoric will certainly help that recruiting effort,” said Robert Powell, global risk briefing manager at EIU.*
Until Trump, the firm had never rated a pending election of a candidate to be a geopolitical risk to the U.S. and the world. The firm has no plans to include Hillary Clinton, Ted Cruz or John Kasich on future risk lists.
“It’s highly unusual, and I don’t think we ever have done it where we’ve had a single politician be the center of our risk items,” Powell said in an interview, but noted that the firm has once included the transition at the top of the Chinese Communist Party as a top-ten risk as well.
“Innate hostility within the Republican hierarchy towards Mr. Trump, combined with the inevitable virulent Democratic opposition, will see many of his more radical policies blocked in Congress,” wrote EIU. But “such internal bickering will also undermine the coherence of domestic and foreign policymaking.”
And there are also serious risks to the global economy if Trump is elected, warned EIU, a sister company to The Economist.
*“The prospects for a trade war are quite high,” said Powell. “Why is a guy who has many of his goods made in China wanting to start a trade war in China?”*
One difficulty in assessing Trump’s policy positions is that “he does tend to shift his opinions like the weather,” Powell said.
Powell also remarked upon Trump's calls for a more aggressive campaign against the Islamic State terrorist group, also known as ISIL or ISIS.
“One of [Trump’s] extreme positions has been to invade Syria to wipe out ISIS,” he said, citing estimates finding that a year-long excursion in Syria of 20,000-30,000 U.S. troops could cost $25 billion.
Trump has vowed to seize Syria's oil fields and refineries, which help keep ISIS afloat, and then sell the oil to pay for a U.S. military campaign. But Powell said that at current oil prices, if the U.S. actually stole the oil, it would only net about $500 million, at most.


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## Devil Soul

*Trump victory a major global risk: EIU*
AFP — PUBLISHED ABOUT AN HOUR AGO



Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump speaks at a campaign event. — AP
LONDON: The prospect of Donald Trump winning the US presidency represents a global threat on par with religious militancy destabilising the world economy, according to British research group EIU.

In the latest version of its Global Risk assessment, the Economist Intelligence Unit ranked victory for the Republican front-runner at 12 on an index where the current top threat is a Chinese economic “hard landing” rated 20.

Justifying the threat level, the EIU highlighted the tycoon's alienation towards China as well as his comments on Islamist extremism, saying a proposal to stop Muslims from entering the United States would be a “potent recruitment tool for militant groups”.

It also raised the spectre of a trade war under a Trump presidency and pointed out that his policies “tend to be prone to constant revision”.

_Read: Clinton, Trump move closer to White House nominations_

“He has been exceptionally hostile towards free trade, including notably Nafta (the North American Free Trade Agreement), and has repeatedly labelled China as a 'currency manipulator'.” it said.

“He has also taken an exceptionally right-wing stance on the Middle East and militant terrorism, including, among other things, advocating the killing of families of terrorists and launching a land incursion into Syria to wipe out the militant IS (and acquire its oil).

“By comparison it gave a possible armed clash in the South China Sea an eight — the same as the threat posed by Britain leaving the European Union — and ranked an emerging market debt crisis at 16.

A Trump victory, it said, would at least scupper the Trans-Pacific Partnership between the US and 11 other American and Asian states signed in February, while “his hostile attitude to free trade, and alienation of Mexico and China in particular, could escalate rapidly into a trade war. “

“There are risks to this forecast, especially in the event of a terrorist attack on US soil or a sudden economic downturn,” it added.

However, the organisation said it did not expect Trump to defeat his most likely Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton, in an election and pointed out that Congress would likely block some of his more radical proposals if he won November's election.

Rated at 12 alongside the prospect of a Trump presidency was the threat of IS, which the EIU said risked ending a five-year bull run on US and European stock markets if terrorist attacks escalated.

The break-up of the eurozone following a Greek exit from the bloc was rated 15, while the prospect of a new “cold war” fuelled by Russian interventions in Ukraine and Syria was put at 16.

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## RabzonKhan

Great ad by Hillary Clinton, it shows what Trump is all about.

Meanwhile, many Rabbis and Jewish leaders are planning boycott of Trump at AIPAC, good, he deserves it.






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1096592573730604








*Rabbis, Jewish leaders plan boycott of Donald Trump at AIPAC
*
Washington (CNN)Several groups of rabbis and Jewish religious leaders are planning to protest Donald Trump's speech to a major pro-Israel conference in Washington on Monday, accusing the presidential candidate of encouraging hatred.

Trump is scheduled to address the American Israel Public Affairs Committee conference Monday night, and several groups are organizing boycotts of the speech.

Rabbis David Paskin and Jesse Olitzky organized one such campaign, called Come Together Against Hate, a play on the conference's theme of "Come Together."

The pair and their allies have created a website and Facebook group to organize a protest that they say is not designed to disrupt AIPAC but to signal their condemnation of Trump.

"This is not about policies, this is not about parties, this is about one particular person, Donald Trump, who has encouraged and incited violence at his campaign rallies," said Paskin, a rabbi in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. "We are against the hatred, the incitement of hatred, the ugliness that has engulfed this political season." *READ MORE*


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## Styx

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/710626092114120708


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## RabzonKhan

Geralt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/710626092114120708


Look who is talking, if she was so corrupt, why did Trump give her several donations for her Senate elections and her 2008 presidential elections?

In fact, not only Trump, but also his wife, (Melania) son, (Donald Trump Jr) and daughter (Ivanka) gave donations for her election campaigns.

Trump also used to say Hillary was “very talented” and “capable” to become US president:

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## RabzonKhan

I'm lovin it!

*AP-GfK Poll: Clinton has edge over Trump on range of issues
*
*Clinton's edge over Trump on the issues spans foreign and domestic policy.*

She holds a significant advantage on handling immigration, health care, the U.S. image abroad, filling Supreme Court vacancies, international trade and working with Congress. Her biggest advantage is on handling gender equality issues, with 55 percent of Americans trusting her and just 12 percent backing Trump.

Clinton has a slimmer lead over Trump on which candidate is trusted to protect the country, with 37 percent backing the Democrat and 31 percent backing the Republican. The margin is similar when Americans were asked who they trusted to handle the threat posed by the Islamic State group.

*Much of Trump's appeal with voters has rested on his broad pledge to "make America great again." But when asked which candidate they trusted more to make the country great, 33 percent of Americans picked Clinton and 28 percent backed Trump.*

Thirty percent said they didn't trust either candidate to make that happen. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

Bernie won the Wyoming Democratic caucuses on April 9, with a small margin, no surprise there, so far, Bernie has done well in caucuses with small rural states with white majority. Wyoming just had a total of 14 delegates and were equally divided between Bernie and Hillary, but with the Superdelegates support, Hillary got more delegates than Bernie.

Hillary won 11 delegates.

Bernie got 7.

To win the Democratic nomination, Democrats need 2,383 delegates to win.

So far,

Hillary has 1,756 delegates.

Bernie 1,068.



Another great ad by Hillary’s campaign, just shows how anti-America Trump is “during the ad, a voiceover shows footage of Donald Trump while mentioning his proposed ban on Muslims from entering the United States, his recent comments about punishment for women who have abortions, and his remarks about Mexicans.

It then cuts to footage of Clinton at a recent campaign event criticizing Trump.* "Donald Trump says we can solve America's problems by turning against each other. It's wrong, and it goes against everything New York and America stands for," she says.”*


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## Desertfalcon

RabzonKhan said:


> Look who is talking, if she was so corrupt, why did Trump give her several donations for her Senate elections and her 2008 presidential elections?
> 
> In fact, not only Trump, but also his wife, (Melania) son, (Donald Trump Jr) and daughter (Ivanka) gave donations for her election campaigns.
> 
> Trump also used to say Hillary was “very talented” and “capable” to become US president:



Trump has never been a real conservative/Republican. He's just a megalomaniac and thinks the presidency will be the ultimate _'reality TV'_ show. It's looking more and more like we Republicans are headed to a contested party convention. If it goes longer than a 1st ballot vote, Trump will be denied the nomination and I think, will run as a third party candidate. In any case, it's likely that Hillary will be the next president unless she blows it.

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## XenoEnsi-14

Desertfalcon said:


> In any case, it's likely that Hillary will be the next president unless she *blows it*.


Well, Birds of a feather flock together.

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## Desertfalcon

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> Well, Birds of a feather flock together.



 Oh my.

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## XenoEnsi-14

Desertfalcon said:


> Oh my.


It was the perfect opportunity, I just couldn't let it pass.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Audio said:


> Where's Trump???? And his Slovenian wife?



Trying to make little trumps


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## Desertfalcon

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Trying to make little trumps



And ruin her figure? I doubt he would allow that! Then again, he would just trade her in on a younger, fresher, model. He's known for that.

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## RabzonKhan

Spoken like a true Republican, I like Kasich, unlike his rivals (an angry fascist and a Taliban in suit and tie), he is a well mannered decent person, a voice of the modern Republicans. As House budget chairman, he is widely considered the architect of a deal that balance the federal budget in the late 90s.



*John Kasich warns of Donald Trump’s “path to darkness”

By REBECCA SHABAD/ CBS NEWS/ Apr 12, 2016 


Ohio Gov. John Kasich argued Tuesday that this presidential election offers voters two paths -- one of which "could drive America down into a ditch, not make us great again."

It is an unveiled slap at front-runner Donald Trump.*

*"Some who feed off of the fears and anger that is felt by some of us and exploit it feed their own insatiable desire for fame or attention. That could drive America down into a ditch, not make us great again,"* Kasich warned in a prepared speech from the the Women's National Republican Club in New York.

*Kasich never mentioned Trump by name, but it's abundantly clear that he was referring to his billionaire opponent. He said Trump's political strategy is "based on exploiting Americans instead of lifting them up," and will "inevitably lead to divisions, paranoia, isolation, and promises that can never, ever be fulfilled."*

He called some of the proposals offered by his rivals "disturbing" and slammed politicians who have made made promises to voters based on polling or on what was politically beneficial.

*Kasich blasted his opponents for the nasty personal attacks they've engaged in throughout the campaign and defended his decision to run a positive campaign.*

"I have stood on a stage and watched with amazement as candidates wallowed in the mud, viciously attacked one another, called each other liars and disparaged each other's character," Kasich said. "Those who continuously push that type of behavior are not worthy of the office they are seeking."

He slammed policy ideas from both of his GOP opponents during the course of the speech.

*"We have heard proposals to create a religious test for immigration, to target neighborhoods for surveillance, impose draconian tariffs which would crush trade and destroy American jobs," Kasich said.*

The idea that Muslim neighborhoods would be targeted for surveillance was a proposal espoused by Ted Cruz after the bombings in Brussels, and Cruz also proposed that Muslim Syrian refugees be denied entryto the U.S., but that Christian refugees should be allowed in.

*He summed up Trump's foreign policy proposals in a single line:

"We have heard proposals to drop out of NATO, abandon Europe to Russia, possibly use nuclear weapons in Europe, end our defense partnerships in Asia, and tell our Middle East allies that they have to go it alone."*

Kasich, the former chairman of the House Budget Committee, also mocked Trump's and Cruz's methodology for trimming federal spending.

"We have been offered hollow promises to impose a value-added tax, balance budgets through simple and whimsical cuts in 'fraud, waste and abuse.'"

The VAT has been used to describe Cruz's plan, and Trump's first answer to balancing the budget has generally been to cut waste, fraud and abuse.

Kasich described his own path as "steep" but "well-trod" and "solid" -- one based on increased economic growth spurred by a balanced budget plan and a temporary freeze on most federal regulations.

The Ohio governor lags the GOP field in delegates -- CBS News' current delegate count has him at 143 delegates, behind Trump at 743 and Cruz at 540.

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## Desertfalcon

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 300001
> 
> 
> Spoken like a true Republican, I like Kasich, unlike his rivals (a angry fascist and a Taliban in suit and tie), he is a well mannered decent person, a voice of the modern Republicans. As House budget chairman, he is widely considered the architect of a deal that balance the federal budget in the late 90s.
> 
> 
> 
> *John Kasich warns of Donald Trump’s “path to darkness”
> 
> By REBECCA SHABAD/ CBS NEWS/ Apr 12, 2016
> 
> 
> Ohio Gov. John Kasich argued Tuesday that this presidential election offers voters two paths -- one of which "could drive America down into a ditch, not make us great again."
> 
> It is an unveiled slap at front-runner Donald Trump.*
> 
> *"Some who feed off of the fears and anger that is felt by some of us and exploit it feed their own insatiable desire for fame or attention. That could drive America down into a ditch, not make us great again,"* Kasich warned in a prepared speech from the the Women's National Republican Club in New York.
> 
> *Kasich never mentioned Trump by name, but it's abundantly clear that he was referring to his billionaire opponent. He said Trump's political strategy is "based on exploiting Americans instead of lifting them up," and will "inevitably lead to divisions, paranoia, isolation, and promises that can never, ever be fulfilled."*
> 
> He called some of the proposals offered by his rivals "disturbing" and slammed politicians who have made made promises to voters based on polling or on what was politically beneficial.
> 
> *Kasich blasted his opponents for the nasty personal attacks they've engaged in throughout the campaign and defended his decision to run a positive campaign.*
> 
> "I have stood on a stage and watched with amazement as candidates wallowed in the mud, viciously attacked one another, called each other liars and disparaged each other's character," Kasich said. "Those who continuously push that type of behavior are not worthy of the office they are seeking."
> 
> He slammed policy ideas from both of his GOP opponents during the course of the speech.
> 
> *"We have heard proposals to create a religious test for immigration, to target neighborhoods for surveillance, impose draconian tariffs which would crush trade and destroy American jobs," Kasich said.*
> 
> The idea that Muslim neighborhoods would be targeted for surveillance was a proposal espoused by Ted Cruz after the bombings in Brussels, and Cruz also proposed that Muslim Syrian refugees be denied entryto the U.S., but that Christian refugees should be allowed in.
> 
> *He summed up Trump's foreign policy proposals in a single line:
> 
> "We have heard proposals to drop out of NATO, abandon Europe to Russia, possibly use nuclear weapons in Europe, end our defense partnerships in Asia, and tell our Middle East allies that they have to go it alone."*
> 
> Kasich, the former chairman of the House Budget Committee, also mocked Trump's and Cruz's methodology for trimming federal spending.
> 
> "We have been offered hollow promises to impose a value-added tax, balance budgets through simple and whimsical cuts in 'fraud, waste and abuse.'"
> 
> The VAT has been used to describe Cruz's plan, and Trump's first answer to balancing the budget has generally been to cut waste, fraud and abuse.
> 
> Kasich described his own path as "steep" but "well-trod" and "solid" -- one based on increased economic growth spurred by a balanced budget plan and a temporary freeze on most federal regulations.
> 
> The Ohio governor lags the GOP field in delegates -- CBS News' current delegate count has him at 143 delegates, behind Trump at 743 and Cruz at 540.



I'm a Republican and he is who I voted for in my state's primary but I think his campaign is only useful to some extent, in denying Trump a first ballot nomination. The problem though is that if it is a contested convention and Trump loses the nomination to Cruz on a second or third ballot, Trump will cry foul and run as a third party candidate, giving the White House to the Democrats. The Dems have it unless they do something incredibly stupid.

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## XenoEnsi-14

Desertfalcon said:


> I'm a Republican and he is who I voted for in my state's primary but I think his campaign is only useful to some extent, in denying Trump a first ballot nomination. The problem though is that if it is a contested convention and Trump loses the nomination to Cruz on a second or third ballot, Trump will cry foul and run as a third party candidate, giving the White House to the Democrats. The Dems have it unless they do something incredibly stupid.


I'm really hoping Bernie does the same thing to the Democrats, that way both Democrats and Republicans commit political suicide.

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## ultron

Kasich is pro Amnesty for illegals. No country allows illegals. Why should the US be an exception? He does not have my vote. I will vote for Trump.



XenoEnsi-14 said:


> I'm really hoping Bernie does the same thing to the Democrats, that way both Democrats and Republicans commit political suicide.




Sanders only joined Democratic party when he started running last year. Trump has been a Republican for many years. Sanders might run 3rd party. Trump would not.


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## Desertfalcon

ultron said:


> Trump has been a Republican for many years. Sanders might run 3rd party. Trump would not.



Donald Trump changed political parties at least five times: report - Washington Times

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/da.../donald-trump-donated-to-democrats-until-2008

If Trump is denied the nomination, is ego won't be able to stand it and he has zero loyalty to the GOP as my links prove. He will run as an independent or third party, in a in a 'New York second'.


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## RabzonKhan

Boston Globe Trump front page: The GOP must stop Trump - The Boston Globe

Very funny, Boston Globe runs a satirical fake front page with the potential Trump presidency.

Trump calling for deportation, American soldiers refusing to kill ISIS families, there are riots in some cities, and the stock market plunges and even the Chinese are mad at Trump for naming his dog madame Peng, after China’s first lady.



Desertfalcon said:


> I'm a Republican and he is who I voted for in my state's primary but I think his campaign is only useful to some extent, in denying Trump a first ballot nomination. The problem though is that if it is a contested convention and Trump loses the nomination to Cruz on a second or third ballot, Trump will cry foul and run as a third party candidate, giving the White House to the Democrats. The Dems have it unless they do something incredibly stupid.


My friend, no offense, but in my opinion, it would be far better for the Republicans to lose White House to the Democrats for four years, than to have an angry fascist or a isolationist religious fanatic as Republican president, I think, Trump and Cruz will do more damage to your party, and to our country.

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## ultron

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 300009
> 
> 
> 
> Boston Globe Trump front page: The GOP must stop Trump - The Boston Globe
> 
> Very funny, Boston Globe runs a satirical fake front page with the potential Trump presidency.
> 
> Trump calling for deportation, American soldiers refusing to kill ISIS families, there are riots in some cities, and the stock market plunges and even the Chinese are mad at Trump for naming his dog madame Peng, after China’s first lady.
> 
> 
> My friend, no offense, but in my opinion, it would be far better for the Republicans to lose White House to the Democrats for four years, than to have an angry fascist or a isolationist religious fanatic as Republican president, I think, Trump and Cruz will do more damage to your party, and to our country.




Time to deport illegals back to where they came from. Let Shia deal with IS families.

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## XenoEnsi-14

RabzonKhan said:


>


2017?


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## ultron



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## Desertfalcon

RabzonKhan said:


> My friend, no offense, but in my opinion, it would be far better for the Republicans to lose White House to the Democrats for four years, than to have an angry fascist or a isolationist religious fanatic as Republican president, I think, Trump and Cruz will do more damage to your party, and to our country.



No offence taken. The thing is, I am NOT a moderate Republican but I largely agree with you. I am a traditional conservative who believes in an optimistic message. ("Our best days are ahead of us, not behind us!" -Reagan). But this has basically been happening since the election of 1992 and the end of the Cold War. The fight against the Soviet Union and communism was the glue that held the conservative movement together. Once it ended, the GOP and conservatives, started to come apart. Everything drifted further and further into bizarreness. I knew we were in deep trouble when we spent four years talking about Obama's birth certificate instead of entitlement reform or finding conservative solutions to health care coverage. The party is smaller and whiter now, then it has ever been in it's history. We no longer win in a single major urban area of the country and we act as if that's a good thing. We have become the party of the angry white male and that is a very, very, bad thing. Besides the moral reasons, it's just plain suicidal politically. With every passing day, the country become less and less white, Christian, rural, and socially conservative. If the GOP is not willing to fight for new voters who match that, it will go the way of the first two conservative parties and disappear into history.


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## ultron

Cruz talks deporting illegals but he don't get flak because he's Hispanic himself

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## Desert Fox

Your thoughts guys: @Falcon29 @XenoEnsi-14 @ultron @gambit @C130​


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## ultron

Trump declared winner in Missouri and racks up 12 delegates. Delegates update.

Trump 758

Cruz 538

Kasich 145

http://www.cnn.com/election

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## RabzonKhan

*Poll: Trump more unpopular than anyone but David Duke in last 30 years of presidential elections*

By NICK GASS 04/14/16

Donald Trump is the most unpopular top-tier presidential candidate over more than three decades of ABC News/Washington Post polls, except for former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke. That's according to the results of the latest national ratings released Thursday, which did not carry too auspicious results for Trump's two Republican opponents, either.

*Two in three Americans surveyed in the poll — 67 percent — said they held an unfavorable view of Trump, *while just 31 percent said they saw him favorably and only 2 percent said they had no opinion of him. Texas Sen. Ted Cruz's favorability rating was marginally higher, at 36 percent, while 53 percent said they had an unfavorable view of him and 11 percent said they had no opinion. Ohio Gov. John Kasich made out the best in the poll, with 39 percent each responding that they had a favorable and unfavorable opinion of him, but 22 percent said they had no opinion either way.

*Trump's 67 percent unfavorable rating is nearly as low as the 69 percent of Americans who said they had a negative view of Duke in a February 1992 poll.*



ultron said:


> Trump declared winner in Missouri and racks up 12 delegates. Delegates update.
> 
> Trump 758
> 
> Cruz 538
> 
> Kasich 145
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/election


So far Trump has won 758 and his opponents have won 863 delegates, it does not look like that Trump will get 1,237 delegates to win the Republican nomination, therefore, most probably it’s going to be a brokered convention and if the GOP has its way, than Trump will be history.



Desert Fox said:


> Your thoughts guys: @Falcon29 @XenoEnsi-14 @ultron @gambit @C130​


William Johnson, the host and the organizer, is the chairman of the so-called American freedom party.

The so-called American freedom party was initially established by racist skinheads that aims to deport immigrants and return the United States to the white rule.

Now the question is, how come all hard-core racists, KKK, Nazi party of America, American freedom party and scumbags like David Duke support Trump, what could be the reason?


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## RabzonKhan

ultron said:


> Time to deport illegals back to where they came from. Let Shia deal with IS families.


It’s easier said than done! The American action forum, a right-leaning Institute has done a indepth study on illegal immigrants and how much it will cost to deport them. To remove the illegals could cost the government around $600 billion. Will shrink the labor force by 11 million and reduce the real GDP by $1.6 trillion, and it can take almost 20 years to complete the task.

In other words, it is not feasible. It would be a useless cat and mouse game and we as taxpayer cannot even afford that.

Building walls and deporting them will not solve the issue.

The best solution is to make strict laws, anyone who hires illegal immigrant will not only face heavy fines, but repeat offenders, will also face jail time, and their businesses could either be shut down or the government can auction their businesses.







Desertfalcon said:


> No offence taken. The thing is, I am NOT a moderate Republican but I largely agree with you. I am a traditional conservative who believes in an optimistic message. ("Our best days are ahead of us, not behind us!" -Reagan). But this has basically been happening since the election of 1992 and the end of the Cold War. The fight against the Soviet Union and communism was the glue that held the conservative movement together. Once it ended, the GOP and conservatives, started to come apart. Everything drifted further and further into bizarreness. I knew we were in deep trouble when we spent four years talking about Obama's birth certificate instead of entitlement reform or finding conservative solutions to health care coverage. The party is smaller and whiter now, then it has ever been in it's history. We no longer win in a single major urban area of the country and we act as if that's a good thing. We have become the party of the angry white male and that is a very, very, bad thing. Besides the moral reasons, it's just plain suicidal politically. With every passing day, the country become less and less white, Christian, rural, and socially conservative. *If the GOP is not willing to fight for new voters who match that, it will go the way of the first two conservative parties and disappear into history*.


GOP knows that, and it’s not like they did not try, but unfortunately, one after the other GOP supported candidates flopped.

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## ultron

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump's 67 percent unfavorable rating is nearly as low as the 69 percent of Americans who said they had a negative view of Duke in a February 1992 poll.




Unfavorable is only relative. Congress has an favorable rating of less than 10%. Hillary has a favorable rating of less than 10%.

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## RabzonKhan

ultron said:


> Unfavorable is only relative. Congress has an favorable rating of less than 10%. *Hillary has a favorable rating of less than 10%*.


Or really, source please?


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> William Johnson, the host and the organizer, is the chairman of the so-called American freedom party.
> 
> The so-called American freedom party was initially established by racist skinheads that aims to deport immigrants and return the United States to the white rule.
> 
> Now the question is, how come all hard-core racists, KKK, Nazi party of America, American freedom party and scumbags like David Duke support Trump, what could be the reason?


It's great to finally see a candidate who's looking out for the interests of White Americans, which is why millions of Whites have voted for him and support him in droves, besides the hundreds of thousands minorities who also support Trump. Whites have a collective interest too and they should have the right to voice their concerns and look out for their racial interests just as *any other racial/ethnic group is doing.*


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## ultron

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ead-in-gop-race-clinton-sanders-tightens.html


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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> Now the question is, how come all hard-core racists, KKK, Nazi party of America, American freedom party and scumbags like David Duke support Trump, what could be the reason?




Ku Klux Klan Grand Dragon Will Quigg Endorses Hillary Clinton for President


KKK grand dragon endorses Hillary Clinton for president


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## iPhone

Watched last night's democratic primary debate. Went in as a Hillary supporter, came out being on Sanders' side. 

Hillary, though great sounded too much like furthering obama's policy. Too many times she stated that a certain policy is good because president obama also endorses it. It seemed like she doesn't bring too much of her own to the table and we'll get another four years of Obama from her.

Bernie on the other hand seemed to be firing on all cylinders. The minimum wage increase to 15 bucks. Free college for the middle class kids, free healthcare for the elderly, cutting back on carbon emission, calling out Israel on their extreme overreacting in Gaza and some other things that escape my mind right now.

I was moved by a lot of things he had to say. On the guns hillary came out on top but overall I think I'm keeping my mind open about sanders.


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## RabzonKhan

New York primary is on April 19th. In the latest NBC/Wall Street Journal/Marist poll, Hillary has 57% to Bernie’s 40%. New York is a very crucial state for both candidates, it has 291 delegates up for grabs. New York is home to both candidates, Bernie was born in Brooklyn and Hillary was twice elected as New York Sen.

Hillary has the upper hand, since it is a close primary, that means, only registered Democrats can vote, that is a plus for Hillary, so far, she has won all close primaries with diverse population.

Hillary also has the support of New York Gov. and NYC Mayor. New York Times, New York daily news and Newsday, all very important newspapers of New York have endorsed her.







*CNN Democratic Debate April 14,2016 | Bernie Sander & Hillary Clinton*





Desert Fox said:


> It's great to finally see a candidate who's looking out for the interests of White Americans, which is why millions of Whites have voted for him and support him in droves, besides the hundreds of thousands minorities who also support Trump. Whites have a collective interest too and they should have the right to voice their concerns and look out for their racial interests just as *any other racial/ethnic group is doing.*


Do I have to remind you that US is not some third world Banana Republic. US has come a long way, a majority of Americans do not judge fellow Americans based on their race or ethnic background.

Trump is not a representative of white people, so let’s not exaggerate, the fact is, majority of whites have not voted for Trump, or try to prove me wrong.



T-72M1 said:


> Ku Klux Klan Grand Dragon Will Quigg Endorses Hillary Clinton for President
> 
> 
> KKK grand dragon endorses Hillary Clinton for president


This is from the link you provided:

*"Based on his past statements, it doesn’t appear highly credible that he has changed his effusive allegiance to Donald Trump,”* Brian Levin, a former New York police officer who is director of the Centre for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University in San Bernardino, told the Telegraph. *“The timing seems suspect. I think this is a function of not wanting to undermine the Trump campaign.”*


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## ultron

Bernie is a coward and a joke. He only joined the Democratic party the day he started running because he knows independents have no chance. He spent decades as an independent spewing garbage about democrats. No way he gets Democratic nomination.

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## flamer84

Desert Fox said:


> It's great to finally see a candidate who's looking out for the interests of White Americans, which is why millions of Whites have voted for him and support him in droves, besides the hundreds of thousands minorities who also support Trump. Whites have a collective interest too and they should have the right to voice their concerns and look out for their racial interests just as *any other racial/ethnic group is doing.*




#whitelivesDON'Tmatter

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Do I have to remind you that US is not some third world Banana Republic. US has come a long way, a majority of Americans do not judge fellow Americans based on their race or ethnic background.
> 
> Trump is not a representative of white people, so let’s not exaggerate, the fact is, majority of whites have not voted for Trump, or try to prove me wrong.


Then why are there racist minority organizations like "La Raza" (literally "The Race") which is a hispanic supremacist organization that has endorsed Obama, as well as the Black Panthers, who also endorsed Obama, as well as the Black Lives Matter organization, which advocates terrorist attacks against Whites. Clearly, race is an issue in America, and White Americans who BUILT the ideological foundations of the American Republic, have as much right to racially organize as any other racial/cultural/ethnic group in this country.

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## RabzonKhan

*








Kareem Abdul-Jabbar endorses Hillary Clinton
*
In a column for The Washington Post published online Saturday, Abdul-Jabbar — the NBA’s all-time leading scorer — says Americans have a choice *"between hell and reason.”*

*“We are in a defining battle between the resurgence of the irrational, and all the horrors that have historically gone with it — violence, bigotry, fascism — and reason, with all the advances that have accompanied it — justice and freedom for all, regardless of ethnic background, social status, gender or sexual orientation,” he writes.*

Abdul-Jabbar said that Clinton “possesses that rare but crucial combination of idealism and pragmatism.”

Of Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, Abdul-Jabbar said the leading Republican candidates have rejected “foundational ideals in favor of a hellish chaos of lies, misdirection, attacks on the Constitution and, most harmful to the country, a rejection of reason."



And Rosie is back. 

*Rosie's comeback: O'Donnell slams Trump in new interview*

The Rosie and Donald show is back.

In her first comments since being ridiculed by Donald Trump in the Republican presidential primary debates, Rosie O’Donnell blasted the businessman for representing the worst of “what the United States is or could be.”

Harry Potter books and referred to him as an “orange person” in an interview that aired on WABC Radio on Sunday.

“I think it’s an epic battle worthy of a new ‘Star Wars’ movie. You have to decide. Are you going to be with the force or are you going to be on the dark side? It’s your choice. Just like Harry Potter, he’s like Lord Voldemort. You know stay away from the dementor.”

When asked by host Rita Cosby whether Trump is qualified to be president, O’Donnell said “he’s not even qualified to run a game show.”

O’Donnell also predicted that Hillary Clinton would win the New York primary and that Bernie Sanders, after the loss, would concede.

“She will ask him to help her to get to the White House, which is the goal that will protect all of humanity as well as the nation’s reputation,” she said. *Read more*


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## Desert Fox

*Border Patrol agents union endorses Trump*
​
*The union representing 16,500 Border Patrol agents has endorsed businessman Donald Trump* for the Republican presidential nomination.

“Mr. Trump will take on special interests and embrace the ideas of rank-and-file Border Patrol agents rather than listening to the management yes-men who say whatever they are programmed to say. This is a refreshing change that we have not seen before — and may never see again,” the National Border Patrol Council said in a statement posted Wednesday on its website. The endorsement was reported by the Government Executive website.

Since the beginning of his campaign for the presidency, Trump has advocated for stronger border protections. He has also been criticized for comments he has made about illegal immigrants from Mexico and other Latin American countries, as well as Muslims coming from overseas.

This is the first time the council has separately endorsed a presidential candidate. The council is part of the largest federal employee union, the American Federation of Government Employees, which has supported President Obama and congressional Democrats.

The endorsement by the law enforcement officers comes at a time when the Trump campaign is being criticized for altercations between his supporters and protesters at his rallies and for comments made by the candidate concerning the violence. It also comes a day after his campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, was charged with misdemeanor battery by officials in Florida after allegations that he grabbed a reporter by the arm and forcefully pulled her away from Trump.

Trump, however, apparently is so impressive to the council that it is *“breaking with our past practice and giving our first-ever endorsement in a presidential primary,”* the statement said. *“We think it is that important: if we do not secure our borders, American communities will continue to suffer at the hands of gangs, cartels and violent criminals preying on the innocent. The lives and security of the American people are at stake, and the National Border Patrol Council will not sit on the sidelines.”*


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...30/border-patrol-agents-union-endorses-trump/

​


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## RabzonKhan

*Hillary and Trump win big in New York. *

Hillary won 58% (1,054,083 million), *175 delegates* vs Bernie 42% (763,469 ), *106 delegates.*

Trump won 60.4% (524,932), *89 delegates* vs Kasich 25.1% (217,904), *4 delegates* vs Cruz 14.5% (126,151) did not win any delegate.

Note: Hillary won 1,054,083 million votes, vs Trump, 524,932, beat him again. 


Another big Tuesday is coming, on 26th of April, five states will hold their primaries, Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island. 

Since most of them are primaries closed, in all five states, Hillary is leading in the polls.


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## sedaeng

RabzonKhan said:


> ...
> Building walls and deporting them will not solve the issue.
> ... _*make strict laws, anyone who hires illegal immigrant will not only face heavy fines, but repeat offenders, will also face jail time, and their businesses could either be shut down or the government can auction their businesses.*_.



I agree



Desert Fox said:


> It's great to finally see a candidate who's looking out for the interests of White Americans, which is why millions of Whites have voted for him and support him in droves, besides the hundreds of thousands minorities who also support Trump. Whites have a collective interest too and they should have the right to voice their concerns and look out for their racial interests just as *any other racial/ethnic group is doing.*



If whites come together collectively, its called "racism". Any other ethnic group does it, its called "pride in ones heritage". (I am Caucasian) 



Desert Fox said:


> Then why are there racist minority organizations like "La Raza" (literally "The Race") which is a hispanic supremacist organization that has endorsed Obama, as well as the Black Panthers, who also endorsed Obama, as well as the Black Lives Matter organization, which advocates terrorist attacks against Whites. Clearly, race is an issue in America, and White Americans who BUILT the ideological foundations of the American Republic, have as much right to racially organize as any other racial/cultural/ethnic group in this country.



Those organizations are not racist in the slightest. They are great community organizations that are simply showing pride in their specific gene pool. Whites are the only racists in the US. /sarcasm

Our political system is a joke. Its always been rigged. They will put in exactly who they want to put in office. 

Voting = believing in their illusion.

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## RabzonKhan

*Trump terrifies world leaders

By Edward-Isaac Dovere and Bryan Bender

04/21/16 05:25 AM EDT
*
President Barack Obama is trying but failing to reassure foreign leaders convinced that Donald Trump will be the next president of the United States. They're in full-boil panic.

According to more than two dozen U.S. and foreign-government officials, Trump has become the starting point for what feels like every government-to-government interaction. In meetings, private dinners and phone calls, world leaders are urgently seeking explanations from Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, Secretary of State John Kerry, Defense Secretary Ash Carter and Trade Representative Michael Froman on down. American ambassadors are asking for guidance from Washington about what they’re supposed to say.

“They’re scared and they’re trying to understand how real this is,” said one American official in touch with foreign leaders. “They all ask. They follow our politics with excruciating detail. They ask: ‘What is this Trump phenomenon? Can he really win? What would it mean for U.S. policy going forward or U.S. engagement in the world?’ They’re all sort of incredulous.”

Obama hears world leaders’ fears about the Republican front-runner so often that he has developed a speech meant to ease their nerves.

First, he walks them through the Republican primary process: Trump has had success, but there are big states yet to vote and the front-runner could still stumble. Then he explains the complications of the GOP convention and how weak rules and convoluted balloting could leave Trump a loser. And finally, Obama assures America’s allies that Hillary Clinton can defeat the Manhattan billionaire. *Read more*







Desert Fox said:


> Then why are there racist minority organizations like "La Raza" (literally "The Race") which is a hispanic supremacist organization that has endorsed Obama, as well as the Black Panthers, who also endorsed Obama, as well as the Black Lives Matter organization, which advocates terrorist attacks against Whites. Clearly, race is an issue in America, and White Americans who BUILT the ideological foundations of the American Republic, have as much right to racially organize as any other racial/cultural/ethnic group in this country.


America is a free country, every jackass is free to form his own hate group. The white racists that you are advocating for have hundreds of racist hate groups, according to Southern Poverty Law Center there are 872 hate groups in the US, 180 are black hate groups and the rest are mostly white racists that includes 190 KKK, 94 Neo-Nazi, 95 White Nationalist, and 95 Racist Skinhead.

No doubt, race is an issue, but not as big as you would want us to believe, my point was that majority of Americans are not racists.

Bty, thanks for proving my point that Trump is racist.

If majority of whites were racist, shouldn’t than Trump be getting majority of their vote, since he is the only racist candidate in the race?

Now let me give you a good example to prove my point:

New Hampshire has 93% white population.

Trump won the election there with (35.3%) 100,406 votes and his moderate Republican opponents, Kasick, Bush, Fiorina, Christie and (Hispanic) Cruz and Rubio got (64.7%) 178,857 votes, the point is that majority of Republican whites did not vote for Mr. racist.

And not only that, the Democrat Bernie Sanders who won there, got 151,584 and Hillary, 95,252 votes, far more than Trump.

Conclusion, the majority of whites did not vote for Mr. racist!


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Mr. racist!


I dare you to prove Trump is racist.



sedaeng said:


> I agree
> 
> 
> 
> If whites come together collectively, its called "racism". Any other ethnic group does it, its called "pride in ones heritage". (I am Caucasian)
> 
> 
> 
> Those organizations are not racist in the slightest. They are great community organizations that are simply showing pride in their specific gene pool. Whites are the only racists in the US. /sarcasm
> 
> Our political system is a joke. Its always been rigged. They will put in exactly who they want to put in office.
> 
> Voting = believing in their illusion.


White Americans built America into an industrialized super power. These late comers who are nothing but freeloaders are bitch!ng and whining because the free ride is about to end .


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Why can't USA have a guy , with long hair and big beard as their Leader / those were the times

Why can't US just pick a Young guy with fresh ideas






Like the good old days

And what about good old family value
Man + Women = Happy family

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## heisenberg

I have a feeling that this US 2016 presidential elections are going the way 2014 Indian elections went. No one in India could have believed in 2013 that Narendra Modi will be their next PM; there was a lot of criticism for him in every newspaper, political pundits, pollsters were coming with different analysis that it will not be possible for modi to get majority by his own and allies will not align with him but then on the 16 may 2014 something unprecedented happened in india. A party whose earlier best was 165 seats got 280 seats in lok sabha elections. That party(BJP) scored seats where it was impossible for it few years back.
Same going with Donald Trump too. Not to mention their campaign rhetoric also matches somewhat.
What do you think guys??


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## Styx




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## RabzonKhan

*Delegate tracker*

*Democrats:*

Hillary Clinton has 1,930 delegates she needs 453 delegates to win the Democratic Party nomination.
Bernie Sanders, 1,191 delegates he needs 1,192 delegates to win the nomination.

*Republican:*

Donald Trump has 845 delegates he needs 392 delegates to win the Republican Party nomination.
Ted Cruz has 559 delegates he needs 678 delegates to win.
Kasich has 148 delegates he needs 1,089 delegates to win.


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## RabzonKhan

The good news keeps coming!

Billionaire Republican donors, Koch brothers plan to spend about $900 million on the 2016 presidential elections, and it seems they don't like Trump.







*Charles Koch calls Trump's Muslim registry plan 'reminiscent of Nazi Germany'*

By POLITICO STAFF 04/24/16

*Conservative billionaire Charles Koch chastised Donald Trump for his plan to register all Muslims, calling the idea “monstrous.”

“That's reminiscent of Nazi Germany. I* mean, that's monstrous, as I said at the time,” Koch said in an interview with ABC News’ Jonathan Karl.

*Koch also said Trump’s proposal to temporarily ban all Muslims from entering the United States is “antithetical to our approach.”*

Trump has previously said, if elected president, he’d support creating a database of all Muslims in America. He later backed off the comment, saying a reporter had suggested the database.

*Koch also said during the interview that “it’s possible” that another Clinton would be better than a Republican president.


*


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## VCheng

heisenberg said:


> I have a feeling that this US 2016 presidential elections are going the way 2014 Indian elections went. No one in India could have believed in 2013 that Narendra Modi will be their next PM; there was a lot of criticism for him in every newspaper, political pundits, pollsters were coming with different analysis that it will not be possible for modi to get majority by his own and allies will not align with him but then on the 16 may 2014 something unprecedented happened in india. A party whose earlier best was 165 seats got 280 seats in lok sabha elections. That party(BJP) scored seats where it was impossible for it few years back.
> Same going with Donald Trump too. Not to mention their campaign rhetoric also matches somewhat.
> What do you think guys??



Let's wait until the nominations are formally decided. Then the real race starts.


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## RabzonKhan

*Poll: Millennials don’t like Trump*

By NOLAN D. MCCASKILL 
04/25/16

Millennials don’t like Donald Trump, a Harvard Institute of Politics poll released Monday shows.

*Hillary Clinton crushes Trump among millennials, who would overwhelmingly support the former secretary of state over the real estate mogul in a general election. Clinton holds a 36-point advantage over Trump, 61 percent to 25 percent, with 14 percent undecided.*

*Support for Clinton is bolstered by 18- to 29-year-olds increasingly favoring having a Democrat in the White House. More than 60 percent of millennials surveyed said they want a Democratic president in 2016, while just 33 percent want a Republican in the White House.* The gap has nearly doubled from this point last year, when just 55 percent preferred a Democrat in the White House and 40 percent wanted a Republican president.

Harvard IOP polling director John Della Volpe told reporters Monday that Trump is playing a similar role in helping the Democratic nominee as former President George W. Bush did during Barack Obama’s 2008 campaign.

“I don’t think there’s a question about that,” he said, “and there’s a lot of evidence that suggests that that’s the case.”

Though Trump is the Republican presidential front-runner, he has the lowest net favorability rating of any remaining presidential candidate among millennials, who also reject Trump’s assertion that he would be the best president for women. Trump’s favorability is minus 57 percent (17 percent favorable, 74 percent unfavorable). Clinton’s favorability is minus 16 percent (37 percent favorable, 53 percent unfavorable).

Only 16 percent of young voters identify as socialists, and just a third support socialism. Nevertheless, Bernie Sanders, a self-described democratic socialist, is the only candidate with a positive net favorability: plus 23 percent (54 percent favorable, 31 percent unfavorable).

Trump supporters are also split on whether they’re enthusiastic about backing the New York billionaire. Fifty-one percent said they were enthusiastic, while 49 percent said they weren’t. In contrast, 60 percent of Clinton’s young backers said they were enthusiastic.

Millennials point to Clinton (29 percent) and Sanders (25 percent) as the top candidates who would improve women’s lives. Ted Cruz, Trump and John Kasich are all in single digits, though nearly one-third don’t know who would do the most for women.

Clinton could become America’s first female president, but 74 percent of young voters are optimistic that they will live to see a female president even if Clinton doesn’t win in November.

The poll was conducted with the government and academic research team of GfK between March 18 and April 3. It surveyed 3,183 18- to 29-year-olds in English and Spanish and has a margin of error of plus or minus 2.4 percentage points.



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Let's wait until the nominations are formally decided. Then the real race starts.


I’m looking at a brokered convention, the way things are going I don’t think Trump will be able to get 1,237 delegates to win the Republican nomination, what is your opinion?


----------



## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> I’m looking at a brokered convention, the way things are going I don’t think Trump will be able to get 1,237 delegates to win the Republican nomination, what is your opinion?



Much can happen between now and the convention. As a registered Republican, I will watch the result with great interest.


----------



## Freyja

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Much can happen between now and the convention. As a registered Republican, I will watch the result with great interest.



Any chance at all retired US general James Mattis could be on the ballot as an alternative to Trump or Cruz, as has been suggested and pushed by some Republican establishment leaders?

If I'm not mistaken, it's not likely due to him needing to have declared his intent to run before a certain date. Right? Or if he did run, he'd have to as a third party candidate.

...

Here's the link to the proposed "draft Mattis" plan.

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/22/11479700/draft-mattis


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## VCheng

Freyja said:


> Any chance at all retired US general James Mattis could be on the ballot as an alternative to Trump or Cruz, as has been suggested and pushed by some Republican establishment leaders?
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, it's not likely due to him needing to have declared his intent to run before a certain date. Right? Or if he did run, he'd have to as a third party candidate.



That matter can wait till after the nomination has been finalized.


----------



## RabzonKhan

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Much can happen between now and the convention. As a registered Republican, I will watch the result with great interest.


Have you already voted in the primaries, and if you did, who did you vote for?



Freyja said:


> Any chance at all retired US general James Mattis could be on the ballot as an alternative to Trump or Cruz, as has been suggested and pushed by some Republican establishment leaders?
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, it's not likely due to him needing to have declared his intent to run before a certain date. Right? Or if he did run, he'd have to as a third party candidate.
> 
> ...
> 
> Here's the link to the proposed "draft Mattis" plan.
> 
> http://www.vox.com/2016/4/22/11479700/draft-mattis





Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> That matter can wait till after the nomination has been finalized.


Technically speaking, it’s already too late for an independent candidate to get on the ballots on all 50 states.


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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> Technically speaking, it’s already too late for an independent candidate to get on the ballots on all 50 states.



Independent candidates can act as spoilers in certain key states nonetheless.


----------



## RabzonKhan

*Fraud case against Trump U. will go to trial, N.Y. judge rules; Trump could testify during campaign

By Doug G. Ware | April 26, 2016
*
NEW YORK, April 26 (UPI) -- A New York judge ruled Tuesday that a civil fraud case against Republican presidential contender Donald Trump will go to trial.

New York County Supreme Court Judge Cynthia Kern made the ruling during a hearing Tuesday. The case stems from accusations from state Attorney General Eric Schneiderman that Trump misled thousands of students at the real estate school.

Officials said the trial could be held this fall and that Trump could himself testify, perhaps during his presidential campaign.

*Schneiderman claims that the real estate school was unlicensed and made disingenuous claims, such as the instructors being hand-picked by Trump himself. The attorney general, a Democrat, also said the school often used "bait and switch" tactics designed to get students to enroll in expensive seminars.*

Trump, though, has denied any wrongdoing and said the school had a 98 percent approval rating from students. He unsuccessfully tried to have the case dismissed last month.

"Let's see what happens in court," the billionaire said in March. "This is a civil case, very easy to have settled, could settle it now, very easy to have settled."

*Schneiderman's suit seeks $40 million in restitution and damages for more than 5,000 U.S. students, including 600 New Yorkers, who paid as much as $35,000 each,Fox News reported. The school operated between 2005 and 2010.*

Trump is seeking a jury trial in the case. Schneiderman's office, however, said he is not entitled to one, and wants Judge Kern to decide the matter.

"Why would the attorney general who represents constituents of the state of New York fear the constituents of the state of New York determining if he's right?" Trump attorney Jeffrey Goldman asked. "They don't want to go to trial."

Kern will decide later whether to put the case to a jury or decide it herself.

Any trial is likely months away, though, because both parties agreed Tuesday that higher courts should be allowed to decide whether Trump's motion to dismiss should be heard by the New York Supreme Court.


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## T-72M1

wow clean sweep for Trump

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## RabzonKhan

*Hillary wins big again!
*
Hillary wins:

*Connecticut*
*Delaware*
*Maryland*
*Pennsylvania
*
Bernie win:

*Rhode Island*

Trump wins:

*Connecticut
Delaware
Maryland
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island*


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## Arsalan

From what little i have been following, it seem that the general elections will be mainly a showdown between Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump? It looks like these are the two who will secure there respective party nominations? 
Right @Syed.Ali.Haider ?


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## VCheng

Arsalan said:


> From what little i have been following, it seem that the general elections will be mainly a showdown between Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump? It looks like these are the two who will secure there respective party nominations?
> Right @Syed.Ali.Haider ?



Both are the current front runners for their respective parties, yes.


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## Arsalan

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Both are the current front runners for their respective parties, yes.


I guess that makes trump a favorite for the next president? Republicans have more chance of getting there man to the White House this time. What do you feel? I have not followed the campaigns closely but considering that the democrats have the office for two terms, it seem likely that it will be republicans now.


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## VCheng

Arsalan said:


> I guess that makes trump a favorite for the next president? Republicans have more chance of getting there man to the White House this time. What do you feel? I have not followed the campaigns closely but considering that the democrats have the office for two terms, it seem likely that it will be republicans now.



It is still early in the game. I personally do not pay much attention until the nominations.


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## Arsalan

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> It is still early in the game. I personally do not pay much attention until the nominations.


hmmm, you think that the nominations will have that much effect this term? I had a feeling that it will be a republicans, no matter who is nominated. Anyway, i guess we will have to wait and see,


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## VCheng

Arsalan said:


> hmmm, you think that the nominations will have that much effect this term? I had a feeling that it will be a republicans, no matter who is nominated. Anyway, i guess we will have to wait and see,



It will be a close and bitterly contested election, no matter who the nominees are, that is for sure.

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## Armstrong

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> It will be a close and bitterly contested election, no matter who the nominees are, that is for sure.


 
Who are you gonna vote for Chengi bhai ?


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> mr. racist


So again, where's you proof Trump's racist?


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## Stephen Cohen

Clinton VS Trump -- finally


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## RabzonKhan

Arsalan said:


> I guess that makes trump a favorite for the next president? Republicans have more chance of getting there man to the White House this time. What do you feel? I have not followed the campaigns closely but considering that the democrats have the office for two terms, it seem likely that it will be republicans now.


Let’s not ignore other important factor, our demographics have rapidly change since 1952, Asians, Blacks and Hispanics played a very important role in Obama’s wins in 2008 and 2012.

Poll after poll shows that Trump is very unpopular with minority, women and millennial voters, and without their support there’s no way he can win.

Polls also show that he is one of the most un-popular candidate in recent history.



Desert Fox said:


> So again, where's you proof Trump's racist?


Sorry I have to hit the bed now, but we’ll discuss that tomorrow.

Cheers!

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## Arsalan

RabzonKhan said:


> Let’s not ignore other important factor, our demographics have rapidly change since 1952, Asians, Blacks and Hispanics played a very important role in Obama’s wins in 2008 and 2012.
> 
> Poll after poll shows that Trump is very unpopular with minority, women and millennial voters, and without their support there’s no way he can win.
> 
> Polls also show that he is one of the most un-popular candidate in recent history.
> 
> 
> Sorry I have to hit the bed now, but we’ll discuss that tomorrow.
> 
> Cheers!


I understand that the general views are that Trump is a bigot, at least that is what is being claimed the general views are!! The issue here is that he is winning the elections to secure nomination. If the views about Trump being a "bad choice" were that much true he would not have been leading the race to secure party nomination. For me, this was the only place where he could have been stopped because if he do wins the nomination, then the chances of his party are already strong in these upcoming elections and we eventually see him in the office. 
Personally, i also do not like this guy but the thing is that he is winning the primaries and this was the place with a real chance of stopping him.


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## VCheng

Arsalan said:


> I understand that the general views are that Trump is a bigot, at least that is what is being claimed the general views are!! The issue here is that he is winning the elections to secure nomination. If the views about Trump being a "bad choice" were that much true he would not have been leading the race to secure party nomination. For me, this was the only place where he could have been stopped because if he do wins the nomination, then the chances of his party are already strong in these upcoming elections and we eventually see him in the office.
> Personally, i also do not like this guy but the thing is that he is winning the primaries and this was the place with a real chance of stopping him.



Just democracy at work Sir.


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## Arsalan

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Just democracy at work Sir.


may be, but i do not understand why people are still suggesting that Trump is not a strong candidate. For me, if he wins the nomination, there is nothing stopping the Republican this time. doo barian la tu lea han democrats na,,


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## VCheng

Arsalan said:


> may be, but i do not understand why people are still suggesting that Trump is not a strong candidate. For me, if he wins the nomination, there is nothing stopping the Republican this time. doo barian la tu lea han democrats na,,



The process is far more important than the personalities, Sir. And Trump, if he becomes President, may not be so bad after all.


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## anon45

Arsalan said:


> I understand that the general views are that Trump is a bigot, at least that is what is being claimed the general views are!! The issue here is that he is winning the elections to secure nomination. If the views about Trump being a "bad choice" were that much true he would not have been leading the race to secure party nomination. For me, this was the only place where he could have been stopped because if he do wins the nomination, then the chances of his party are already strong in these upcoming elections and we eventually see him in the office.
> Personally, i also do not like this guy but the thing is that he is winning the primaries and this was the place with a real chance of stopping him.



Actually the Primaries in no way reflect how things would go in the general.

Do note that he has not gotten an absolute majority, only a plurality, of Republican voters.

Trump definitely has a dedicated voter base, just like Bernie did, but he alienates pretty much everyone else.

Old White guys and a small amount of angry anti-establishment anarchists will vote for him, but I predict that he will lose very handily in the general, and his presence might demoralize Republicans to the extent that they will lose control of the senate due to lack of down ticket voters.

Meanwhile minorities and women will turn out in force to prevent a Trump presidency.

That's pretty much the reason why the Republican establishment is so against him, he isn't a winning candidate, he is very polarizing, and his rhetoric is absurd.

I mean, you have establishment Republicans WILLING to support Hillary over Trump... that's big.

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## T-72M1




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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Sorry I have to hit the bed now, but we’ll discuss that tomorrow.
> 
> Cheers!


I'll take it that you have no proof that Trump is racist, as you claimed he was.



anon45 said:


> Meanwhile minorities and women will turn out in force to prevent a Trump presidency.


The minority vote shouldn't even count considering most of these people are only voting against Trump out of purely racially motivated reasons (yet they call Trump a racist), NOT out of concern for American interests:

1). Most *Hispanics* are voting against Trump because he wants to deport all illegals and seal the border (what country doesn't enforce border security?)

2). Most *Muslims* are voting against Trump because he wants to prevent Americans from getting blown up & shot up by terrorist infiltrators, he intends on implementing a temporary ban and deporting all refugees brought in by Obama and Clinton (sensible approach, just see what's happening in Europe).

3). Most *Blacks* are voting against Trump because they don't want to see a White heterosexual male returning to the White House.

That's it! No other reason. *Not* because they disagree with Trump's foreign policy. *Not* because they disagree with his economic policy (hell, most of them don't even know what his economic and foreign policies are), but purely out of RACIAL concerns, nothing more. *People like these don't deserve to vote because they have no legitimate reason to vote.*


----------



## anon45

Desert Fox said:


> I'll take it that you have no proof that Trump is racist, as you claimed he was.
> 
> The minority vote shouldn't even count


No, that's not how it works. Minorities get a vote just like anyone else.



Desert Fox said:


> considering most of these people are only voting against Trump out of purely racially motivated reasons (yet they call Trump a racist), NOT out of concern for American interests:



If by racially motivated reasons you mean so that they don't have to deal with a racially motivated president, you are right. Any group would vote against someone who said their race was a bunch of rapists. I



Desert Fox said:


> 1). Most *Hispanics* are voting against Trump because he wants to deport all illegals and seal the border (what country doesn't enforce border security?)


 The method he proposes and the means he wants to pay for it with are both terrible ideas. The 'rapist' comment likely lost him the Hispanic vote, not to mention he has a vocal segment of his voter base which is is racist (he has not disavowed them).



Desert Fox said:


> 2). Most *Muslims* are voting against Trump because he wants to prevent Americans from getting blown up & shot up by terrorist infiltrators, he intends on implementing a temporary ban and deporting all refugees brought in by Obama and Clinton (sensible approach, just see what's happening in Europe).



I'm really surprised at this, given your flags state you are Pakistani, and likely Muslim. Are you saying American Muslims want Americans to get blow up and shot by terrorist infiltrators? American Muslims shouldn't be allowed to vote? You didn't think this comment through. His policies will simply aggravate tensions between Muslims and others.



Desert Fox said:


> 3). Most *Blacks* are voting against Trump because they don't want to see a White heterosexual male returning to the White House.



No, they don't wan't to see a racist White male in the White house. Hillary is also much beloved by the African American community on the whole, to the point where in 2008, Obama had to fight for that vote. It is a given that they will vote Hillary.



Desert Fox said:


> That's it! No other reason. *Not* because they disagree with Trump's foreign policy. *Not* because they disagree with his economic policy (hell, most of them don't even know what his economic and foreign policies are), but purely out of RACIAL concerns, nothing more. *People like these don't deserve to vote because they have no legitimate reason to vote.*



Funny thing is, you are right, they will likely vote out of Racial concern, because Donald Trump MAKES it racial by his comments and his voter base. This has helped him secure a very strong plurality (not majority!) in the Republican party, but will hamper him when it comes to the general.

Thankfully your view on whether Black's Hispanic's, Muslim's, and Women deserve to get a vote is irrelevant, they do get the vote.[/QUOTE]


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## Desert Fox

anon45 said:


> No, that's not how it works. Minorities get a vote just like anyone else.
> 
> 
> 
> If by racially motivated reasons you mean so that they don't have to deal with a racially motivated president, you are right. Any group would vote against someone who said their race was a bunch of rapists. I
> 
> The method he proposes and the means he wants to pay for it with are both terrible ideas. The 'rapist' comment likely lost him the Hispanic vote, not to mention he has a vocal segment of his voter base which is is racist (he has not disavowed them).
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really surprised at this, given your flags state you are Pakistani, and likely Muslim. Are you saying American Muslims want Americans to get blow up and shot by terrorist infiltrators? American Muslims shouldn't be allowed to vote? You didn't think this comment through. His policies will simply aggravate tensions between Muslims and others.
> 
> 
> 
> No, they don't wan't to see a racist White male in the White house. Hillary is also much beloved by the African American community on the whole, to the point where in 2008, Obama had to fight for that vote. It is a given that they will vote Hillary.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing is, you are right, they will likely vote out of Racial concern, because Donald Trump MAKES it racial by his comments and his voter base. This has helped him secure a very strong plurality (not majority!) in the Republican party, but will hamper him when it comes to the general.
> 
> Thankfully your view on whether Black's Hispanic's, Muslim's, and Women deserve to get a vote is irrelevant, they do get the vote.


But which of his comments was "racist"?? That's the problem, everyone's calling him "racist" yet can't provide where he made a racist statement!

Secondly, yes there are rapists and criminals who are entering/have entered our country through the Mexican border and have caused a lot of trouble, thus that border should/must be sealed and all illegals deported. So how is that "racist" again?

Finally, can you tell me how exactly Trump is "racist" against Muslims for wanting to implement a temporary ban on Muslim immigration and stop any refugees from coming in?? *Anyone opposing this policy is by default, in favor of terrorist infiltrating and harming American citizens.*

Me being Muslim in fact gives me more exposure to the mentality of Muslims, whether in America or abroad, and trust me, a good number of them don't like America, they're just leaching off of it for economic reasons, that's it, just as they're doing in Europe, where they knowingly sheltered one of the masterminds of the Paris Attacks for weeks.

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## Arsalan

anon45 said:


> *Meanwhile minorities and women will turn out in force to prevent a Trump presidency.*
> 
> .


Even if it means keeping democrats in office? 

Well thanks a lot for the detailed reply. That was helpful Considering you have first hand knowledge and know the ground situation better so will like to know just this from you, what your opinion?


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## VCheng

Arsalan said:


> Even if it means keeping democrats in office?
> 
> Well thanks a lot for the detailed reply. That was helpful Considering you have first hand knowledge and know the ground situation better so will like to know just this from you, what your opinion?



There is nothing wrong with re-electing a Democrat President either, Sir, and I say this as a registered Republican. Whoever wins by due process, wins.


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## Arsalan

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> There is nothing wrong with re-electing a Democrat President either, Sir, and I say this as a registered Republican. Whoever wins by due process, wins.


I understand your emphasis on "due process" and understand the meaning behinde this but in emphasising on this you are missing what i actually am looking for 
Do you think that people may chose not to support trump even if it means selecting a

The question was:


anon45 said:


> *Meanwhile minorities and women will turn out in force to prevent a Trump presidency.*
> .


If if this means electing a Democrat again?

It is not about the system brother, i am just asking about the general mentality of public, will people go this far that they may change there party if they do not like the candidate? will you? IF suppose you also didn't liked Trump?


----------



## VCheng

Arsalan said:


> I understand your emphasis on "due process" and understand the meaning behinde this but in emphasising on this you are missing what i actually am looking for
> Do you think that people may chose not to support trump even if it means selecting a
> 
> The question was:
> 
> If if this means electing a Democrat again?
> 
> It is not about the system brother, i am just asking about the general mentality of public, will people go this far that they may change there party if they do not like the candidate? will you? IF suppose you also didn't liked Trump?



You might be surprised just how many people may decide to support Trump against Hillary. If Trump is bad, Hillary may be even worse. It is still too early to see which way such an election would go.


----------



## Arsalan

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> You might be surprised just how many people may decide to support Trump against Hillary. If Trump is bad, Hillary may be even worse. It is still too early to see which way such an election would go.


Well again, i was asking that do you think people will decide to change the party and vote for a democrat as many sources claim just because they do not want Trump? It can be other way around as well but i asked thins based on what little i came to know about the current situation. Lets hope @anon45 can give a straight answer.


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## T-72M1

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> You might be surprised just how many people may decide to support Trump against Hillary. If Trump is bad, Hillary may be even worse. It is still too early to see which way such an election would go.


he's almost caught up with crooked Hillary in a few recent national polls, come november, and it won't surprise me if he routes her in a landslide.


----------



## VCheng

Arsalan said:


> Well again, i was asking that do you think people will decide to change the party and vote for a democrat as many sources claim just because they do not want Trump? It can be other way around as well but i asked thins based on what little i came to know about the current situation. Lets hope @anon45 can give a straight answer.



Let the nominations happen first, and the VP candidates selected. Then the real fun begins.


----------



## anon45

Arsalan said:


> Even if it means keeping democrats in office?
> 
> Well thanks a lot for the detailed reply. That was helpful Considering you have first hand knowledge and know the ground situation better so will like to know just this from you, what your opinion?



Minorities typically vote Democrat. 

The next thing I say isn't totally true, but the GOP is stereotyped as the party of 'angry old white men'.

It is true that the large majority of their voter base is White, but this isn't exactly a winning strategy anymore so they've been trying to court Hispanics without alienating their voting base.



Arsalan said:


> Well again, i was asking that do you think people will decide to change the party and vote for a democrat as many sources claim just because they do not want Trump? It can be other way around as well but i asked thins based on what little i came to know about the current situation. Lets hope @anon45 can give a straight answer.



I see alot of Reddit berniebros cry about supporting Trump over Clinton, but this is mostly a hollow threat given Trump's policies are the antithesis of Bernie's. There may be a small minority who do so, but most will vote Hillary, her voting record is 92% the same as Bernie's. She is just more centrist. There is a segment of the Republican Party that is 'never Trump', but I don't know for sure how big that is.

The most interesting thing is wide speculation that we are seeing the implosion of the Republican party.



Arsalan said:


> I understand your emphasis on "due process" and understand the meaning behinde this but in emphasising on this you are missing what i actually am looking for
> Do you think that people may chose not to support trump even if it means selecting a
> 
> The question was:
> 
> If if this means electing a Democrat again?
> 
> It is not about the system brother, i am just asking about the general mentality of public, will people go this far that they may change there party if they do not like the candidate? will you? IF suppose you also didn't liked Trump?



In the general election people can vote for whoever, they are not limited by party. 

If the GOP 'steals' the nomination from Trump if he clearly has the delegate and plurality count, it could potentially lead to voters leaving en masse and starting a third party/ going independent.

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## Audio

I read in recent primaries Trump has been gathering votes from the educated and mid to upper mid class districts, the way it was written it was implying a new achievement.
Additionally, Washington Post reported that he in on his way to getting the most Republican votes in history, ie literally the biggest amount of people turning up to vote for him. A record so to speak.

Something to think about imho.....


----------



## anon45

Desert Fox said:


> But which of his comments was "racist"?? That's the problem, everyone's calling him "racist" yet can't provide where he made a racist statement!


His policies and a strong portion of his voter base are racist. That is not a coincidence.



Desert Fox said:


> Secondly, yes there are rapists and criminals who are entering/have entered our country through the Mexican border and have caused a lot of trouble, thus that border should/must be sealed and all illegals deported. So how is that "racist" again?


 Because the vast majority are not rapists and criminals, and he paints a mainly hispanic flow as being composed of such. If you don't see how this is racist, I can't help you. His policy of 'building a wall and making Mexico pay for it' is also terrible. Yes I know where he plans to take the money from, it still sounds terrible. It won't get finished, and it won't be very effective, and it will be a continuing maintenance drain. A waste of money which can be easily circumvented without wasting even more money and leading to even more cost.



Desert Fox said:


> Finally, can you tell me how exactly Trump is "racist" against Muslims for wanting to implement a temporary ban on Muslim immigration and stop any refugees from coming in?? *Anyone opposing this policy is by default, in favor of terrorist infiltrating and harming American citizens.*
> 
> Me being Muslim in fact gives me more exposure to the mentality of Muslims, whether in America or abroad, and trust me, a good number of them don't like America, they're just leaching off of it for economic reasons, that's it, just as they're doing in Europe, where they knowingly sheltered one of the masterminds of the Paris Attacks for weeks.



Good point, it isn't racism, it's religious discrimination to refuse entry on the basis of religion, regardless of background check.
So basically in the first place his ban is unconstitutional, and your support of it is the support of an unconstitutional act.

Your targeted attack against anyone opposing the policy is meaningless. I am by default for the constitution, and Trump's policy is unconstitutional, against the core ideals of what makes us American. Trump's policies in general strike at the core of what it means to be an American. He advocates closing ourselves, when historically we have been an open nation.

Muslims, or anyone really, immigrating to the US for economic reasons is obviously not new, why do you expect me to be shocked? It is one of the main drivers of immigration in general. I don't care if they are immigrating here because they want money to send back to their family or to have a better quality of life, that is the America, I expect that, and I'd be surprised if anyone, Republicans included, would oppose immigration if they new the immigrants were going to work to better their life.

If you are talking about leeching off our welfare than good luck, it isn't quite as nice as European countries. 

I'm sorry to hear you have such bad opinions about your fellow Muslims, but Muslim extremism in the US is not quite the problem they have in Europe. 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants have tended to integrate, they haven't been forced into ghettos.

The US also has dedicated intelligence agencies. They sometimes take it too far, but Mosques know what's up, and for the most part there is heavy pressure to conform and out potential extremists.



Audio said:


> I read in recent primaries Trump has been gathering votes from the educated and mid to upper mid class districts, the way it was written it was implying a new achievement.
> Additionally, Washington Post reported that he in on his way to getting the most Republican votes in history, ie literally the biggest amount of people turning up to vote for him. A record so to speak.
> 
> Something to think about imho.....



I read further into it, basically republican voters of that metric.

Nationally his polling among that segment (not just the republican side) are still bad.

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## Audio

anon45 said:


> link?



http://www.politico.com/blogs/twelve-thirty-seven/2016/04/donald-trump-popular-vote-record-222510

Can't be arsed to go search for WP article just now.

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## T-72M1




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## Desert Fox

anon45 said:


> His policies and a strong portion of his voter base are racist. That is not a coincidence.


Which policy is racist? Building a wall to prevent illegals from coming into the country is "racist"? By your definition every country in the world that enforces its borders is "racist", including America's #1 ally Israel..





anon45 said:


> Because the vast majority are not rapists and criminals,


How do you know when most of these people are undocumented and there is no way of checking their criminal history? That's the security threat: there is no way of knowing who's coming in through that "border" and where they're going.




anon45 said:


> and he paints a mainly hispanic flow as being composed of such.


Because Hispanics happen to make up the largest chunk of the illegals in this country and Mexico (from where most of them are coming from) happens to be a Hispanic country. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out and in no way is he racist for stating this because *1). its a fact that even Federal Statistics recognize that Mexicans and other central/south American nationalities make up the largest chunk of illegals in America.*



anon45 said:


> If you don't see how this is racist,


Because it isn't racist. You're beginning to sound like those SJW's who yell and scream "Trump's a racist" at the top of their lungs but when asked for proof you have no real, legitimate proof and out of desperation you're trying to portray Federal Government recognized facts as "racist".



anon45 said:


> . His policy of 'building a wall and making Mexico pay for it' is also terrible. Yes I know where he plans to take the money from, it still sounds terrible. It won't get finished, and it won't be very effective, and it will be a continuing maintenance drain. A waste of money which can be easily circumvented without wasting even more money and leading to even more cost.


So many countries (including America's #1 Ally israel) have built border walls to keep out various threats and its proved to work just fine. Secondly, the Federal government has wasted trillions on various programs and foreign interventions within the past decade alone, a $17 billion dollar wall (it won't be a waste) is peanuts in comparison. If we cut down wasteful spending on other areas then we will have more than enough $$ to build the wall.





anon45 said:


> Good point, it isn't racism, it's religious discrimination to refuse entry on the basis of religion, regardless of background check.
> So basically in the first place his ban is unconstitutional, and your support of it is the support of an unconstitutional act.
> 
> Your targeted attack against anyone opposing the policy is meaningless. I am by default for the constitution, and Trump's policy is unconstitutional, against the core ideals of what makes us American. Trump's policies in general strike at the core of what it means to be an American. He advocates closing ourselves, when historically we have been an open nation.


FDR's ban on immigration from Axis countries during WW2 and Abraham Lincolns suspension of Habeas Corpus (among many other unconstitutional things Lincoln did) *were unconstitutional*, BUT during times of war they were necessary and today these two presidents are considered one of the greatest leaders of this country *for taking the necessary measures to preserve America and her peace.*

ISIS has declared they will send terrorists infiltrators among refugees and immigrants to attack the West, thus the common sense thing to do would be to temporarily halt Muslim immigration until the threat of ISIS has been significantly reduced. Anyone opposing this sensible move is by default in favor of exposing American citizens to terrorist attacks by ISIS and similar organizations.



anon45 said:


> Muslims, or anyone really, immigrating to the US for economic reasons is obviously not new, why do you expect me to be shocked? It is one of the main drivers of immigration in general. I don't care if they are immigrating here because they want money to send back to their family or to have a better quality of life, that is the America, I expect that, and I'd be surprised if anyone, Republicans included, would oppose immigration if they new the immigrants were going to work to better their life.
> 
> If you are talking about leeching off our welfare than good luck, it isn't quite as nice as European countries.


If someone is coming to my country just to make money and not because he shares my values or my outlook on life or because he wants to integrate into my culture, then that is bound to cause conflicts on so many levels between me and that person and naturally that is an unavoidable outcome. Just look at Europe where there are Muslim majority neighborhoods, they're not following European laws, rather they're following Shariah.



anon45 said:


> I'm sorry to hear you have such bad opinions about your fellow Muslims, but Muslim extremism in the US is not quite the problem they have in Europe. 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants have tended to integrate, they haven't been forced into ghettos.
> 
> The US also has dedicated intelligence agencies. They sometimes take it too far, but Mosques know what's up, and for the most part there is heavy pressure to conform and out potential extremists.


Being a second or third generation "well integrated" Muslim doesn't make one any less prone to extremism:

*Radicalised Muslims in UK more likely to be born in Britain, rich and depressed*

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## T-72M1

Desert Fox said:


> Because it isn't racist. You're beginning to sound like those SJW's...

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## T-72M1



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## RabzonKhan

Arsalan said:


> I understand that the general views are that Trump is a bigot, at least that is what is being claimed the general views are!! The issue here is that he is winning the elections to secure nomination. If the views about Trump being a "bad choice" were that much true he would not have been leading the race to secure party nomination.


With all due respect, you’re comparing apples and oranges, primary elections are different from general elections, so far, Trump has won 38% of Republican primary votes, but he still has not secured the nomination of his party, but if he does somehow secures the nomination, according to many national polls, he would be the most unpopular candidate to represent either party in modern times.

Seven in 10 national adults have an unfavorable view of him, he is unpopular with majority of women, men, young, old, liberals, moderates, conservatives, Blacks and Hispanics.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trumps-unpopularity-stays-sky-high-cruz-hits-high/story?id=38370127
*Trump's Unpopularity Stays Sky High* 



> For me, this was the only place where he could have been stopped because if he do wins the nomination, then *the chances of his party are already strong* in these upcoming elections and we eventually see him in the office.


You say, “the chances of his party are already strong”, may I ask, on what basis, please elaborate?



> Personally, i also do not like this guy but the thing is that he is winning the primaries and this was the place with a real chance of stopping him.


I think it’s the other way around, in the general elections, majority of the voters are not angry white middle-age men.


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## anon45

Desert Fox said:


> Which policy is racist? Building a wall to prevent illegals from coming into the country is "racist"? By your definition every country in the world that enforces its borders is "racist", including America's #1 ally Israel.



The wall is just a terrible idea, but the comments he made in his support of it were racist, thus making one of the motivating factors of his policy racism, on top of already not being worth the cost, the Muslim thing is pure discrimination.

I don't care about Israel's border policy, they have their own reasons, which may or may not be racist, that's none of my concern ultimately. I care about the policies of the elected President of my own country more than I care about the policies of the leader of Israel, China, Pakistan, whatever, and we don't need to take that step back from fear and ignorance, certainly not on this issue.






Desert Fox said:


> How do you know when most of these people are undocumented and there is no way of checking their criminal history? That's the security threat: there is no way of knowing who's coming in through that "border" and where they're going.


 Are you serious? How do you know most of those people aren't riding unicorns and eating liquid gold? Since when is it my burden to prove the majority of undocumented illegals are
not rapists and druggies? The burden is on *YOU* (and Trump) to prove it.

If your issue is not in fact whether they are rapists or not but the issue of not knowing period, then the simplest solution is to legalize illegal immigrants so that the illegals have incentive to become known. That comes with pitfalls and complications of its own, but it is the cheaper and simpler solution. As it is the hispanic immigration has not proven itself to be a cultural and national security threat warranting the spending of absurd amounts (given our national budget) of money on building a wall as well as building and maintaining the absolutely huge security force that would be needed to effectively man that wall. Until the illegal immigration has proven itself to be just such a threat, I see no reason to spend the money to build a wall to deal with a security threat that doesn't exist.

Honestly instead of locking potential immigrants out, we should be creating more avenues for legal immigration, a way for existing illegal immigrants to become legal citizens. That would both lessen the illegal immigration flow and do more to sort out those with criminal intentions/ bakcground than any wall could possibly do in today's world.





Desert Fox said:


> Because it isn't racist. You're beginning to sound like those SJW's who yell and scream "Trump's a racist" at the top of their lungs but when asked for proof you have no real, legitimate proof and out of desperation you're trying to portray Federal Government recognized facts as "racist".



I can see you are starting to get personal, so before we get into personal name-calling we should just agree to disagree on how racially damaging his policies are.



Desert Fox said:


> So many countries (including America's #1 Ally israel) have built border walls to keep out various threats and its proved to work just fine. Secondly, the Federal government has wasted trillions on various programs and foreign interventions within the past decade alone, a $17 billion dollar wall (it won't be a waste) is peanuts in comparison. If we cut down wasteful spending on other areas then we will have more than enough $$ to build the wall.



Its not just the upfront cost, its the ongoing maintenance of this wall, plus the manpower needed to man it and the surveillance needed to make it effective, all 2000 miles of it. Israel's wall is going to be about 1/5 the size when finished, and given their historical tensions with Muslims (especially the Palestinians in the area) the strategic calculus might actually make it a good idea for their armed forces, which don't have to worry about far ranging commitments and global power projection. Not to mention their citizenry generally has military training.

We simply don't have such deep hate or tensions with either Mexico, or Hispanics in general at this time as what exists between the Israeli's and the Palestinians. Just because we have wasted lots of money on other programs doesn't mean I support wasting our money on another, and yes I still view it as a waste for a problem that is not much of a problem aside from the entirely legal aspects of it. It is a problem the same way Marijuana is a problem, and building a 'YUGE' wall is not the way to fix it.





Desert Fox said:


> FDR's ban on immigration from Axis countries during WW2 and Abraham Lincolns suspension of Habeas Corpus (among many other unconstitutional things Lincoln did) *were unconstitutional*, BUT during times of war they were necessary and today these two presidents are considered one of the greatest leaders of this country *for taking the necessary measures to preserve America and her peace. *


 Next time we are at war with all Muslims, your point will be more relevant. Also next time ISIS is actually a state, your point will be more relevant.



Desert Fox said:


> ISIS has declared they will send terrorists infiltrators among refugees and immigrants to attack the West, thus the common sense thing to do would be to temporarily halt Muslim immigration until the threat of ISIS has been significantly reduced. Anyone opposing this sensible move is by default in favor of exposing American citizens to terrorist attacks by ISIS and similar organizations.


 This is why we have domestic intelligence agencies, to weed out the threats instead of a blanket ban. They've generally done a good job of it.

You calling it sensible does not make it sensible, it is unconstitutional, and would be rightly challenged and struck down in court until we actually formally declare war on all Muslims states, if not all Muslims. Good luck getting that doozie through Congress.



Desert Fox said:


> If someone is coming to my country just to make money and not because he shares my values or my outlook on life or because he wants to integrate into my culture, then that is bound to cause conflicts on so many levels between me and that person and naturally that is an unavoidable outcome. Just look at Europe where there are Muslim majority neighborhoods, they're not following European laws, rather they're following Shariah.
> 
> 
> Being a second or third generation "well integrated" Muslim doesn't make one any less prone to extremism:
> 
> *Radicalised Muslims in UK more likely to be born in Britain, rich and depressed*



UK != US

Likewise EU != US

Instead of looking at the UK or European countries for how immigration might effect the US, you would be better served to look at Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. Like the US, they have a similar immigrant history that is not connected to any single ethnicity that the European countries simply don't.

http://www.ibtimes.com/why-do-american-muslims-fare-better-their-french-counterparts-2189449

http://www.economist.com/news/unite...-better-america-europe-islamic-yet-integrated

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## RabzonKhan

Arsalan said:


> *It is not about the system brother, i am just asking about the general mentality of public, will people go this far that they may change there party if they do not like the candidate? will you? IF suppose you also didn't liked Trump?*


Yes they would, that happens in every election.

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/04...ublicans-vote-hillary-clinton-trump-wins.html
A new Suffolk University poll has found that 19% of Republicans say they will support Hillary Clinton if Donald Trump wins the Republican nomination. 

The poll contained some numbers that should terrify Republicans. 40% of Republicans polled said that they would not support the party’s nominee if Donald Trump wins. 25% of the anti-Trump Republican vote would consider voting for a third party candidate. 19% of the never Trump Republicans would vote for Hillary Clinton, and 18% would stay home and not vote at all. By gender, 10% of men, and 9% of Republican women would vote for Clinton over Trump. 18% of very likely Republican general election voters would support Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump.



Desert Fox said:


> I'll take it that you have no proof that Trump is racist, as you claimed he was.


I never take a position that I cannot back, but I don’t think I need to reply at this time, since anon45 is doing a good job.

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## ultron

Delegates update.

http://www.cnn.com/election


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## Desert Fox

anon45 said:


> The wall is just a terrible idea, but the comments he made in his support of it were racist, thus making one of the motivating factors of his policy racism, on top of already not being worth the cost, the Muslim thing is pure discrimination.


Again, which "comment" of his was racist? Back your claim. The onus is on *YOU* to prove he's racist, which you have thus far failed to provide any evidence of.







anon45 said:


> Are you serious? How do you know most of those people aren't riding unicorns and eating liquid gold?


I don't! 




anon45 said:


> Since when is it my burden to prove the majority of undocumented illegals are rapists and druggies? The burden is on *YOU* (and Trump) to prove it.


No, the onus is* NOT* on me (or Trump) to prove anything because those illegals should not be in this country to begin with. By illegally coming into this country is already breaking the law. I don't have to prove zilch.

Secondly, my point still stands: we don't know who these people are, where they're headed, or what their intentions are. *They should enter through legal channels.*



anon45 said:


> Until the *illegal* immigration has proven itself to be just such a threat,* I see no reason to spend the money to build a wall to deal with a security threat that doesn't exist.*


You're telling me a unsecure border through which anyone can come in is not a security threat?? What a magnificent logic, or lack there of.



anon45 said:


> Honestly instead of locking potential immigrants out, we should be creating more avenues for legal immigration, a way for existing illegal immigrants to become legal citizens. That would both lessen the illegal immigration flow and do more to sort out those with criminal intentions/ bakcground than any wall could possibly do in today's world.


We already have legal channels for immigration. Sneaking in through the border is not one of them.







anon45 said:


> I can see you are starting to get personal, so before we get into personal name-calling we should just agree to disagree on how racially damaging his policies are.


I'm not personally attacking you. All you have been doing is accusing Trump of racism but have failed to prove where he said anything racist. The *onus* is on *YOU *to prove Trump is racist, *PS Hispanic is not a race, neither is a Muslim/Islam*.










anon45 said:


> Its not just the upfront cost, its the ongoing maintenance of this wall, plus the manpower needed to man it and the surveillance needed to make it effective, all 2000 miles of it.


The US spends more money in one year on maintaining a military presence *abroad all over the world* + the trillions spent on ongoing military interventions. Building + maintaining a border at *HOME *won't somehow cripple the US economy. The money can be easily made up for through cutting useless spending elsewhere. 




anon45 said:


> We simply don't have such deep hate or tensions with either Mexico, or Hispanics in general at this time as what exists between the Israeli's and the Palestinians. Just because we have wasted lots of money on other programs doesn't mean I support wasting our money on another, and yes I still view it as a waste for a problem that is not much of a problem aside from the entirely legal aspects of it. It is a problem the same way Marijuana is a problem, and building a 'YUGE' wall is not the way to fix it.


It's not about hate, its about *common sense*.




anon45 said:


> This is why we have domestic intelligence agencies, to weed out the threats instead of a blanket ban. They've generally done a good job of it.


Apparently not good enough.



anon45 said:


> You calling it sensible does not make it sensible, it is unconstitutional, and would be rightly challenged and struck down in court until we actually formally declare war on all Muslims states, if not all Muslims. Good luck getting that doozie through Congress.


Whether it goes to congress, or if it ever gets to that, lets wait and see. Only circumstances will decide what's sensible, and as history has proven the constitution is trampled upon in times of necessity.





anon45 said:


> UK != US
> 
> Likewise EU != US
> 
> Instead of looking at the UK or European countries for how immigration might effect the US, you would be better served to look at Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. Like the US, they have a similar immigrant history that is not connected to any single ethnicity that the European countries simply don't.
> 
> http://www.ibtimes.com/why-do-american-muslims-fare-better-their-french-counterparts-2189449
> 
> http://www.economist.com/news/unite...-better-america-europe-islamic-yet-integrated


I think you missed my point, not sure if deliberately, or you just don't understand. You made a claim of "well integrated" aren't prone to extremism and i I clearly gave you an example of "well integrated" second to third generation well-to-do Muslims from a Western country who did not live in "ghettos", yet still joined a terrorist organization. It doesn't matter if its Europe, America, or Australia because they are "integrated" and well-to-do yet still an extremist ideology appealed to them, that was my point. I hope you were able to understand it this time.



RabzonKhan said:


> I don’t think I need to reply at this time


Thanks for proving that Trump *is not* racist.

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## ultron

I voted Trump to kick illegals back where they came from.






THIS IS AMERICA!

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## Desert Fox

*Anti-Trump Protesters Riot, Smash Police Cars & Attack Trump Supporters*


























​

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## T-72M1

Desert Fox said:


> *Anti-Trump Protesters Riot, Smash Police Cars & Attack Trump Supporters*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 303176
> 
> 
> View attachment 303172
> 
> 
> View attachment 303174
> 
> 
> View attachment 303173
> 
> ​


saw that earlier, people with Mexican flags beating up people with American flags, how does that even work ? 

was the same story in Chicago where he had to cancel his rally because of violent leftists like people for bernie, black lives matter, the muslim student association, and other marxist groups.

cant help but wonder if these violent anti Trump protests might actually end up helping the Trump campaign.


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## anon45

Desert Fox said:


> Again, which "comment" of his was racist? Back your claim. The onus is on *YOU* to prove he's racist, which you have thus far failed to provide any evidence of.



Well if you are willing to continue the debate without beginning to assert anything denigrating like implying I am a SJW', then we can continue. I don't have the inclination or will to deal with that, or respond in kind. Attack the comments, not the speaker. Anyways....

_“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

“I don’t think it’s a small percentage, it’s a lot. But it’s not Mexicans necessarily. They’re coming from all over.”

_

Lots and lots of prejudiced and discriminatory remarks, but nothing that can be linked to the hard definition of racism for quotes made during this election, so fine, I refer to his policies and comments as bigoted and discriminatory by religion instead of as racist.

Anyways, whenever I read this series of remarks on hispanics, My mind goes back to 'The New Colossus'.

*Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,*

*With conquering limbs astride from land to land;*

*Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand*

*A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame*

*Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name*

*Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand*

*Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command*

*The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.*

*"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she*

*With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,*

*Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,*

*The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.*

*Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,*

*I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
*
Interestingly enough and as an aside, here are his racist quotes against blacks from before the election and what he says during the election.


_Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.

“Laziness is a trait in blacks.”_

_“And, you know, I have a great relationship with African Americans, as you possibly have heard. I just have great respect for them and you know they like me.”_ (this one was during 2015, so actually during the primary season.


Also some outright general signs that he is a bad human being.






http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wo...blican-US-Presidential-candidates-gaffes.html



Desert Fox said:


> I don't!
> 
> 
> 
> No, the onus is* NOT* on me (or Trump) to prove anything because those illegals should not be in this country to begin with. By illegally coming into this country is already breaking the law. I don't have to prove zilch.



Actually, if you or Trump asserts that x amount of illegal immigrants are Rapists and druggies, the onus is on you to prove it. So either don't defend Trump for that assertion or provide evidence that a 'huge' percentage of illegal immigrants (lets say 10%) are bringing drugs and rape, or don't continue to assert that a 'big' percentage are doing so.




Desert Fox said:


> Secondly, my point still stands: we don't know who these people are, where they're headed, or what their intentions are. *They should enter through legal channels. *


* 
http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/why-don’t-they-just-get-line*



Desert Fox said:


> You're telling me a unsecure border through which anyone can come in is not a security threat?? What a magnificent logic, or lack there of.


I am saying it has not demonstrated itself as such to the extent that we need to spend money on a wall plus the necessities to make that wall effective.

Current procedures are adequate.



Desert Fox said:


> We already have legal channels for immigration. Sneaking in through the border is not one of them.



I refer you to my above link.







Desert Fox said:


> How am i getting personal? All you have been doing is accusing Trump of racism but have failed to prove where he said anything racist. The *onus* is on *YOU *to prove Trump is racist, *PS Hispanic is not a race, neither is a Muslim/Islam*.



Addressed above, You did not do it to such an extent yet, but you were beginning to, and could easily see your 'beginning to sound like' morphing into 'you are', so I wanted to cut that line of discussion before we dropped to that level.




Desert Fox said:


> The US spends more money in one year on maintaining a military presence *abroad all over the world* + the trillions spent on ongoing military interventions. Building + maintaining a border at *HOME *won't somehow cripple the US economy. The money can be easily made up for through cutting useless spending elsewhere.


 I think we may be at an impasse here, I view the wall as a waste of money in and of itself. I do view the expense as, while not crippling, as being entirely unnecessary. It would be pointless to try to sway me with arguments related to its affordability, it is still in the billions, and I view it as unneeded. You will want to direct your arguments on proving its necessity rather than its economic unaffordability. The best way to do that is to convince me that those immigrants are either pose a net demerit to us, or show that the immigrants are a current national security threat, instead of a potential one. As in extremist sentiment among large percentages of these immigrants, hatred for the United States, widespread threats of Hispanic terrorism, etc.



Desert Fox said:


> It's not about hate, its about *common sense*.



No its about simple and absolutely shallow and inefficient 'solutions' to complex problems.



Desert Fox said:


> Apparently not good enough.



http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/deadly-attacks.html

I'd say they've done well enough for a decade and a half, and we've nowhere near reached the levels where we should think about banning muslim immigration simply on the basis of being Muslim. If we didn't do so after 9/11, we certainly shouldn't do so now.




Desert Fox said:


> Whether it goes to congress, or if it ever gets to that, lets wait and see. Only circumstances will decide what's sensible, and as history has proven the constitution is trampled upon in times of necessity.



Just because it has happened before doesn't mean we should do it again, especially not over, what, 50 deaths over 15 years?

You and I will see what the American people think about this in November. I am very confident Trump will lose. I hope he loses badly.





Desert Fox said:


> I think you missed my point, not sure if deliberately, or you just don't understand. You made a claim of "well integrated" aren't prone to extremism and i I clearly gave you an example of "well integrated" second to third generation well-to-do Muslims from a Western country who did not live in "ghettos", yet still joined a terrorist organization. It doesn't matter if its Europe, America, or Australia because they are "integrated" and well-to-do yet still an extremist ideology appealed to them, that was my point. I hope you were able to understand it this time.




You are generalizing 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims in the UK to 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims in the US, and I am telling you you cannot do that. The cultures are different when it comes to immigration, the history is different, doing so doesn't work.

If you insist, then please provide a similar credible study showing many 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims in the US are radicalizing.

We have had individual cases, but there is no trend. They are integrating/ integrated.


----------



## ultron

anon45 said:


> Also some outright general signs that he is a bad human being.




If that reporter didn't mock the 3000 American lives lost on 9/11, Trump wouldn't have had to mock him.


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## anon45

ultron said:


> If that reporter didn't mock the 3000 American lives lost on 9/11, Trump wouldn't have had to mock him.


Frankly I'm not going to bother verifying whether that reporter actually mocked the people who lost their lives on 9/11, because it is irrelevant.

Trump didn't have to mock him.
Trump *chose* to mock his disability in action, utterly unnecessary on the campaign trail.

In a bar it would probably pass, but not on stage in front of national television.


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## ultron

anon45 said:


> Trump *chose* to mock his disability in action, utterly unnecessary on the campaign trail.




Trump didn't mock his disability. That's the way the reporter is, disabled, and frankly, should not be a reporter in the first place.


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## Desert Fox

T-72M1 said:


> saw that earlier, people with Mexican flags beating up people with American flags, how does that even work ?
> 
> was the same story in Chicago where he had to cancel his rally because of violent leftists like people for bernie, black lives matter, the muslim student association, and other marxist groups.
> 
> cant help but wonder if these violent anti Trump protests might actually end up helping the Trump campaign.


They prove Trump's point that they are all nothing but hate filled, intolerant, racist bigots who will attack and injure those who do not agree with them. If these people have their way there will no more freedom of speech or Democracy.



anon45 said:


> Well if you are willing to continue the debate without beginning to assert anything denigrating like implying I am a SJW', then we can continue. I don't have the inclination or will to deal with that, or respond in kind. Attack the comments, not the speaker. Anyways....


Okay, fair point, but you did stubbornly refuse to provide any evidence of racism from Trump (which you now acknowledged there is none).

_


anon45 said:



“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

“I don’t think it’s a small percentage, it’s a lot. But it’s not Mexicans necessarily. They’re coming from all over.”

Click to expand...

_Anyone coming into this country illegally is by default breaking the law, thus making them a criminal. Secondly, American citizens have suffered from crimes like rape, gang violence, & drug smuggling at the hands of illegals who otherwise should not have been in this country. Whether its all illegals or a small percentage who take part in these crimes, that doesn't matter as they should not have been here to begin with. They're termed *illegals* for a reason.




anon45 said:


> Anyways, whenever I read this series of remarks on hispanics, My mind goes back to 'The New Colossus'.
> 
> *Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,*
> 
> *With conquering limbs astride from land to land;*
> 
> *Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand*
> 
> *A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame*
> 
> *Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name*
> 
> *Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand*
> 
> *Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command*
> 
> *The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.*
> 
> *"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she*
> 
> *With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,*
> 
> *Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,*
> 
> *The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.*
> 
> *Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,*
> 
> *I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"*



Statue of Liberty, where they have Ellis Island from where immigrants* legally *came into the US after undergoing various legal procedures.



anon45 said:


> Interestingly enough and as an aside, here are his racist quotes against blacks from before the election and what he says during the election.
> 
> 
> _Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.
> 
> “Laziness is a trait in blacks.”_
> 
> _“And, you know, I have a great relationship with African Americans, as you possibly have heard. I just have great respect for them and you know they like me.”_ (this one was during 2015, so actually during the primary season.


A reputable source for these quotes would be nice.




anon45 said:


> Also some outright general signs that he is a bad human being.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wo...blican-US-Presidential-candidates-gaffes.html


There's videos of Hillary outright lying and *infringing on the (now recognized) fundamental rights of homosexuals*. So what's your point?




anon45 said:


> Actually, if you or Trump asserts that x amount of illegal immigrants are Rapists and druggies, the onus is on you to prove it. So either don't defend Trump for that assertion or provide evidence that a 'huge' percentage of illegal immigrants (lets say 10%) are bringing drugs and rape, or don't continue to assert that a 'big' percentage are doing so.


Quote me where i claimed "x amount are rapists and druggies". And im not sure where Trump gave an exact number either, and if he did maybe you should take that up with him. I did say we don't know who's sneaking through the border or where they're going, what their intentions are, what their past history is, etc... I'm sure any sane person wouldn't be okay with complete strangers breaking into their home through their windows instead of entering the house through the front door with the owners knowledge & consent.



anon45 said:


> *
> http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/why-don’t-they-just-get-line*


Oh well, too bad. If anyone has a problem with the immigration policy then they can change it through legal means rather than justify something illegal.



anon45 said:


> *I am* saying it has not demonstrated itself as such to the extent that we need to spend money on a wall plus the necessities to make that wall effective.


Lets ask the people who are actually guarding that "border" what* they think:*

Union Representing 16,000 Border Agents Endorses Trump-NPR






anon45 said:


> I think we may be at an impasse here, I view the wall as a waste of money in and of itself. I do view the expense as, while not crippling, as being entirely unnecessary. It would be pointless to try to sway me with arguments related to its affordability, it is still in the billions, and I view it as unneeded. You will want to direct your arguments on proving its necessity rather than its economic unaffordability. The best way to do that is to convince me that those immigrants are either pose a net demerit to us, or show that the immigrants are a current national security threat, instead of a potential one. As in extremist sentiment among large percentages of these immigrants, hatred for the United States, widespread threats of Hispanic terrorism, etc.



That's like saying "unless someone enters my house and robs me first i won't lock my door". Not a sound logic at all. We're better of ending it here.



anon45 said:


> No its about simple and absolutely shallow and inefficient 'solutions' to complex problems.


Not according to the people who are actually guarding that border and witnessing what's going on on the ground. *They hold more credibility than you or anyone else who opposes the wall.*




anon45 said:


> http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/deadly-attacks.html
> 
> I'd say they've done well enough for a decade and a half, and we've nowhere near reached the levels where we should think about banning muslim immigration simply on the basis of being Muslim. If we didn't do so after 9/11, we certainly shouldn't do so now.
> 
> Just because it has happened before doesn't mean we should do it again, especially not over, what, 50 deaths over 15 years?
> 
> You and I will see what the American people think about this in November. I am very confident Trump will lose. I hope he loses badly.


Terrorism is unpredictable so 50 in past 15 years is no way to determine what could happen in the future, and you can't be for certain that what's happened in the past won't happen again, especially with someone like Hillary who wants to bring in thousands of refugees.








anon45 said:


> You are generalizing 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims in the UK to 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims in the US, and I am telling you you cannot do that. The cultures are different when it comes to immigration, the history is different, doing so doesn't work.
> 
> If you insist, then please provide a similar credible study showing many 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims in the US are radicalizing.
> 
> We have had individual cases, but there is no trend. They are integrating/ integrated.



Well you originally stated well integrated Muslims are not susceptible to extremism and i gave your proof that they are, whether its Europe (who's loose immigration policy you want the US to mimic) or America, that's a different point. Secondly, i never generalized, i just pointed out the fact that an extremist ideology can appeal to any Muslim, whether integrated or not. It only takes one lone wolf to kill hundreds, even thousands.


----------



## anon45

Desert Fox said:


> Well you originally stated well integrated Muslims are not susceptible to extremism and i gave your proof that they are, whether its Europe (who's loose immigration policy you want the US to mimic) or America, that's a different point. Secondly, i never generalized, i just pointed out the fact that an extremist ideology can appeal to any Muslim, whether integrated or not. It only takes one lone wolf to kill hundreds, even thousands.





Okay, fair point, but you did stubbornly refuse to provide any evidence of racism from Trump (which you now acknowledged there is none).[/QUOTE]

Frankly I think he holds racist views, or heavily implies he does to appeal to that segment of the republican base using dogwhistle politics. This isn't something that can be debated though because it is only my opinion based on his supporters and how his speech resonates with me.

So I concede the point he hasn't said anything explicitly racist on the campaign trail, though he has said plenty of equally reprehensible things that encourage religious discrimination and bigotry.



Desert Fox said:


> Anyone coming into this country illegally is by default breaking the law, thus making them a criminal. Secondly, American citizens have suffered from crimes like rape, gang violence, & drug smuggling at the hands of illegals who otherwise should not have been in this country. Whether its all illegals or a small percentage who take part in these crimes, that doesn't matter as they should not have been here to begin with. They're termed *illegals* for a reason.



Law is not the be all and end all, sometimes laws need to be reformed.
If the only crime they ever commit is to enter our borders illegally, then I again view it the same way as I'd treat someone who smoked marijuana or pirates video games/movies/songs (but doesn't sell them). They are also criminals, and we undoubtedly have at least 10's of millions of these 'criminals' living and producing in US society. They aren't the people I wan't deported or in prison, even though they have broken the law, and they should first be allowed the chance to become a citizen (again, assuming they have not commited any crimes). The measures we take against those who break our laws are adequate.



Desert Fox said:


> A reputable source for these quotes would be nice.



Don't worry about them, they aren't core to my arguments and weren't said during his campaigning (only the last one was) I just thought it was interesting. They were in a book written by a former employee of Trump's concerning when he was berating a black accountant. Trump, for his part, said to a reporter (or during an interview, can't remember) who brought up the subject that they were 'most likely true', while insulting and berating the employee much as you would expect Trump to do.




Desert Fox said:


> Quote me where i claimed "x amount are rapists and druggies". And im not sure where Trump gave an exact number either, and if he did maybe you should take that up with him.


That's the thing about his arguments, they are vague. He gives 'big percentage', but never specifies, because he can't. He knows how to be slippery.






Desert Fox said:


> Oh well, too bad. If anyone has a problem with the immigration policy then they can change it through legal means rather than justify something illegal.



It sounds like you take issue with the point that they are illegal immigrants, whether this illegal immigrant is productive within society or is a rapist and a druggie is immaterial to you, because they illegally crossed the border.

We seem to fundamentally disagree on what our first response should be to this issue.




Desert Fox said:


> Lets ask the people who are actually guarding that "border" what* they think:*
> 
> Union Representing 16,000 Border Agents Endorses Trump-NPR



Ignoring that they are self-interested parties in this who would see a massive increase in their membership under this policy... I refer to my previous link.
http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/why-don’t-they-just-get-line

and this gem http://www.nationalmemo.com/an-engineer-explains-why-trumps-wall-is-so-implausible/

Along with this one when Trump actually *backtracked* on the size, making it NOT a full wall.
http://www.nationalmemo.com/trump-wises-up-abandons-his-improbably-large-wall/

Again, it was never feasable. A pie in the sky idea as he originally stated it, and full of holes when he amended it.



Desert Fox said:


> That's like saying "unless someone enters my house and robs me first i won't lock my door". Not a sound logic at all. We're better of ending it here.


 More like the guy did not come to actually rob your house but wanted to maintain your plumbing for you and your 5 other roommates in return for being allowed to live there and possibly contribute to the rent in the future when he got a job.

Frankly we aren't going to go anywhere with these, we will poke holes in each other all day because we fundamentally disagree on what's important, so we should drop this line. We both got our views out.

Its up to the elections to show who the majority agrees with.





Desert Fox said:


> Not according to the people who are actually guarding that border and witnessing what's going on on the ground. *They hold more credibility than you or anyone else who opposes the wall.*


I'd say a structural engineer has more credibility on the wall. On top of a union being self-interested in increasing their membership.




Desert Fox said:


> Terrorism is unpredictable so 50 in past 15 years is no way to determine what could happen in the future, and you can't be for certain that what's happened in the past won't happen again, especially with someone like Hillary who wants to bring in thousands of refugees.



Being on alert is half the battle, and intelligence agencies are certainly on the alert. Banning all Muslim immigration won't do us any favors, especially on a soft power level. What next? Deportation of all Muslims already here? Your concerns are too nebulous for me to think we should be doing something so extreme to address it.

Again, I think the general population agrees with me, and November will show us.









Desert Fox said:


> Well you originally stated well integrated Muslims are not susceptible to extremism and i gave your proof that they are, whether its Europe (who's loose immigration policy you want the US to mimic) or America, that's a different point. Secondly, i never generalized, i just pointed out the fact that an extremist ideology can appeal to any Muslim, whether integrated or not. It only takes one lone wolf to kill hundreds, even thousands.



Here is my exact quote which you started from



> I'm sorry to hear you have such bad opinions about your fellow Muslims, but Muslim extremism in the US is not quite the problem they have in Europe. 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants have tended to integrate, they haven't been forced into ghettos.
> 
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/us-presi...6-news-and-views.374363/page-29#ixzz47SoDeiLn



You may have confused me for someone else or misread my post, I clearly stated integration in the US, and differentiated it from Europe.

As an aside, It is clear we both disagree on multiple points, but I respect your debating stamina.

I'm about ready to call it, and you've certainly involved me more in this than I have been in a while.

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## Arsalan

RabzonKhan said:


> With all due respect, you’re comparing apples and oranges, primary elections are different from general elections, so far, Trump has won 38% of Republican primary votes, but he still has not secured the nomination of his party, but if he does somehow secures the nomination, according to many national polls, he would be the most unpopular candidate to represent either party in modern times.
> 
> Seven in 10 national adults have an unfavorable view of him, he is unpopular with majority of women, men, young, old, liberals, moderates, conservatives, Blacks and Hispanics.
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trumps-unpopularity-stays-sky-high-cruz-hits-high/story?id=38370127
> *Trump's Unpopularity Stays Sky High*
> 
> 
> You say, “the chances of his party are already strong”, may I ask, on what basis, please elaborate?
> 
> 
> I think it’s the other way around, in the general elections, majority of the voters are not angry white middle-age men.


Well i am actually looking for answers and information, as i mentioned in starting posts, i am not following the campaign and what i say is based on whatever little i know. However i am open to learning new things here. 
To summarize, my point was that, and its a question actually, with Democrats in office for a decade now and some issues that US have faced in that time regarding security and mainly economy, it was a perception that Republicans have a better shot this time. Now with Trump in pole position to win the nomination and the general public as you say not very happy with Trump, will that mean that people, mainly republicans may not vote for trump and instead bring in a democrat again. Do they dislike him so much?

Anyway, i have got the answer already from that general poll shared here where may people do claim that they will vote for Hillary rather then Trump. Interesting!

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## RabzonKhan

ultron said:


> If that reporter didn't mock the 3000 American lives lost on 9/11, Trump wouldn't have had to mock him.


That’s absolutely false, Kovaleski (disabled reporter) has never mocked September 11 victims.

This whole controversy started after Trump falsely claimed that he had witnessed thousands of Muslims cheering in NJ on the September 11 terrorist attack on the World Trade Center (quite similar to Nazi propaganda against Jews), to back his false claim, Trump quoted an article that was written by Kovaleski for Washington Post, in the article, Kovaleski wrote “law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river.” 

Even though his story quoted no witnesses and had no specific evidence that the celebration occurred.

After Trump made the false claim, Washington Post interviewed Kovaleski, who said “I certainly do not remember anyone saying that thousands or even hundreds of people were celebrating. That was not the case, as best as I can remember”.

And that is the reason Trump got mad at him and shamelessly made fun of his disability.

And when Trump was criticized by almost everyone, Trump denied that he was making fun of disabled reporter, claiming that he does not know him and did not know that he was disabled, and that’s another lie, because Trump knows him, according to Kovaleski, Trump knows him very well since he used to cover trumps for the New York’s daily news.

Everyone knows Trump is a notorious liar!

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## Desert Fox

*Hillary Clinton Lying For 13 Minutes Straight*





​


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## ultron

Because of the violent behavior of Trump rioters, Trump opened up a massive 34 point lead in California.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rump-trouncing-calif-34-points-poll/83847098/


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## RabzonKhan

*






California: Trump vs. Clinton*

In three recent polls, Hillary beats Trump by 22 (KABC/survey USA), 28 (Field), and 27 (LA Times) points= a total spread of 25 points.


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## ultron

Trump wins all 57 delegates in Indiana


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## ultron

Cruz is out. Only 2 left in the Republican race. Trump leads with more than 1000 delegates. Kasich has 153 delegates.


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## T-72M1

haha, Donald is an animal, he's going to absolutely annihilate crooked Hillary, she wont know what hit her.


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## anon45

T-72M1 said:


> haha, Donald is an animal, he's going to absolutely annihilate crooked Hillary, she wont know what hit her.



It can be forgiven for people who don't live in the US to not understand why the Republican establishment was so against a Trump nomination, he isn't general election material.

I look forward to the November elections and a Trump thrashing 

http://time.com/4317643/republican-party-donald-trump-ted-cruz-hillary-clinton-indiana/?xid=tcoshare

When Ted Cruz unexpectedly dropped out of the presidential race Tuesday night, anti-Trump Republicans were left staring into what the Texas Senator earlier called “the abyss”: presumptive nominee Donald Trump.

Now some Republicans are being forced to reckon with a question they hoped they were never have to answer: Who would they support in ageneral election match-up against Hillary Clinton?

Disaffected Republicans have fallen into three groups so far. Some vowed never to vote for Trump, some said they will abandon the Republican Party entirely and some said they will actively support Clinton instead.

For those who are casting their ballots for Clinton in the fall, she appears merely as the lesser of two evils.

“At least it’s not going to disgrace the nation on the first day,” a former senior official in the George W. Bush administration said of voting for Clinton. “I don’t support her at all, but Trump is beyond the pale.”

“I think it’s a mess,”he added. “I mean what the hell even is the party?”

Ben Howe, a contributing editor at conservative website Red State, tweetedbefore Cruz dropped out, “I am a fiscal conservative and I am a social conservative. That will not change. But I will not vote for an egomaniacal authoritarian. Nope.” And then he followed simply with the Clinton campaign’s hashtag: #ImWithHer.

Mike Treiser, a former staffer on Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign, wrote on Facebook: “In the face of bigotry, hatred, violence, and small-mindedness, this time, I’m with her.”

Mark Salter, a former strategist for John McCain, also announced on social media before the Indiana results rolled in that he would support Clinton. “He’s an awful human being,” Salter told TIME of Trump earlier that day. “He appeals to a sliver of the country that mystifies me.”

For her part, Clinton seems ready to seize this opportunity to broaden her voting base, calling out to Democrats, Independents and “thoughtful Republican" during her Pennsylvania victory speech last week. And one of her spokespeople recently told the Associated Press, “We have an informed understanding that we could have the potential to expect support from not just Democrats and independents, but Republicans, too.”

After winning the Indiana primary, Trump took a conciliatory tone during his victory speech at Trump Tower. “We want to bring unity to the Republican Party,” he said. “We have to.”

But that party is one many lifelong members no longer recognize.

Philip Klein, the managing editor of the Washington _Examiner_, posted a photo Tuesday night of a voter identification form showing him officially changing his registration from Republican. And Cheri Jacobus, a GOP consultant and pundit who has been outspoken against Trump throughout the election, posted on Facebook, “I’m out. RIP GOP.”

“You all should do that,” conservative fireband radio host Steve Deaceresponded to GOP Chairman Reince Priebus’ call for party unity behind Trump. “But I won’t be one of you all.” He later also posted a photo of a signed registration form with a check mark next to “no party.”

“I registered Republican when I was 18 because I thought free markets and liberty were important,” pollster Kristen Soltis Anderson tweeted that night. “Not sure what ‘Republican’ means today.”

Meghan McCain, daughter of 2008 Republican nominee John McCain,summed it up in what sounds like the disheartened epitaph for the Grand Old Party: *“I guess when I said in 2012 that my party was going to evolve or it was going to die – it was easier to choose death.”*

_-With reporting by Philip Elliott_


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## T-72M1

anon45 said:


> he isn't general election material.


right, not general election material but unbelievable primary election material ?



anon45 said:


> look forward to the November elections and a Trump thrashing


as am I, Trump thrashing the shit out of crooked hillary, the whole world is looking forward to that


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## flamer84

T-72M1 said:


> as am I, Trump thrashing the shit out of crooked hillary, the whole world is looking forward to that



Not going to happen.Many Republicans will vote for Hillary and the Democrats will stampede themselves to vote for Hillary.90% of the Hispanic vote will go to Hillary,the Black vote is not far behind.The Republicans have nuked themselves with the Trump clown,they didn't take him seriously at the beginning and now they've handed the Presidency to Clinton.


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## Immortan.Joe

flamer84 said:


> Not going to happen.Many Republicans will vote for Hillary and the Democrats will stampede themselves to vote for Hillary.90% of the Hispanic vote will go to Hillary,the Black vote is not far behind.The Republicans have nuked themselves with the Trump clown,they didn't take him seriously at the beginning and now they've handed the Presidency to Clinton.




While Trump is a clown who would drive a lot of voters to Democratic party's camp, but then Hillary too is not well liked in USA as far as my understanding goes.

I think this most of foot-stomping on "we would vote for Hillary, if Trump is nominated as Presidential candidate" would turn out to be a bluster, and given the US system of "winner takes all" rather than direct counting of votes, Republicans ,in my opinion, would hold on to true-blue state ,even if they lose some votes there.

If Trump could get some voters to vote republican in some Swing states, he could very well beat Hillary. 

This election would be a lot closer than many people acknowledge; same people who had written-off Trump at the start of republican primaries.


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## T-72M1

flamer84 said:


> Not going to happen.Many Republicans will vote for Hillary and the Democrats will stampede themselves to vote for Hillary.90% of the Hispanic vote will go to Hillary,the Black vote is not far behind.The Republicans have nuked themselves with the Trump clown,they didn't take him seriously at the beginning and now they've handed the Presidency to Clinton.


he just won the primaries (kasich dropped out as well)

lets hang on a little bit before we place our bets, shall we ?


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## ultron

GOP update: Trump at 1053, Kasich at 153

Hillary is a hawk. Her husband Bill dismembered Yugoslavia in the 1990s. Hillary is even more of a hawk than Bill. Trump or Hillary will start a BIG war, no matter who is elected, and, sad to say, the Middle East will be on the receiving end.


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## flamer84

T-72M1 said:


> he just won the primaries (kasich dropped out as well)
> 
> lets hang on a little bit before we place our bets, shall we ?




It's pure math man.


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## ultron

flamer84 said:


> It's pure math man.




Anything can happen. Kasich chose to drop out. He didn't have to. Ron Paul stuck around in 2012.


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## flamer84

ultron said:


> Anything can happen. Kasich chose to drop out. He didn't have to. Ron Paul stuck around in 2012.




His fight would have been symbolic at best and a forced nomination would have only shuttered the Rep even more.Truth be told,my country was in this position in 2000.On one side was an ultranationalist threathening to put gypsies into extermination camps and shoot people on stadiums for theft and on the other a much hated crypto communist fossil.Everyone went and voted for the ex commie fossil because the alternative was much worse.

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## ultron

Trump and Hillary are both war hawks. Millions of Syrian people will be massacred by either of them.


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## Steve781

I wanted Trump to lose the nomination for selfish reasons. I cannot handle six months of him dominating the news every night. I'm not against him as such I'm just sick o0f hearing about him all the time.


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## anon45

T-72M1 said:


> right, not general election material but unbelievable primary election material ?


 This is exactly what I mean for people who don't really understand US politics. The GOP has been stuck with their core white conservative base, they have been unable to reach minorities despite their efforts, and they made big efforts with the Hispanic community.

Primaries simply aren't the same as the General election, and Trump winning 40% or so of the 92% white Republican party won't mean much in the general, where Minorities make up about around 40% of the population, and don't even get me started with women.




T-72M1 said:


> as am I, Trump thrashing the shit out of crooked hillary, the whole world is looking forward to that



You are setting yourself up for a big disappointment .


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## flamer84

anon45 said:


> and they made big efforts with the Hispanic community.



Right,and their efforts amounted to hillbilly crazy Cruz who wanted to ban dildos


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## ultron

anon45 said:


> Primaries simply aren't the same as the General election, and Trump winning 40% or so of the 92% white Republican party won't mean much in the general, where Minorities make up about around 40% of the population, and don't even get me started with women.




Trump is WASP. That's the biggest voter block in the US. As for minorities, don't expect too much from them. Most of them are white washed. As for women, women hate Hillary, a LOT.


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## anon45

ultron said:


> Trump is WASP. That's the biggest voter block in the US. As for minorities, don't expect too much from them. Most of them are white washed. As for women, women hate Hillary, a LOT.



*Donald Trump wrong that Hillary Clinton 'doesn’t do very well with women'*
*Average*

*53*

*34*

*Clinton +19*

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-trump-wrong-hillary-clinton-doesnt-do-very-/



your statement about not expecting much from minorities is hilarious, I hope Trump repeats Republican mistakes again, It just makes Hillary's victory margin larger.

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## ultron

anon45 said:


> http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-trump-wrong-hillary-clinton-doesnt-do-very-/




At this point, polls have very little value. I do expect Trump to win. First, Americans don't want family rule. Second, Americans don't want same party in the WH after 8 years. Third, Hillary has a LOT of baggage Trump is going to exploit.


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## anon45

ultron said:


> At this point, polls have very little value. I do expect Trump to win. First, Americans don't want family rule. Second, Americans don't want same party in the WH after 8 years. Third, Hillary has a LOT of baggage Trump is going to exploit.



Lol 2 presidents with the name Clinton is family Rule? Then we've had family rule since John Adams.

Hillary has had that baggage for 20 years with the Republicans unable to make a dent.

Trump meanwhile has made up for lost time, He is making it very easy for Hillary. Trump doesn't deal well with smart women, his sexist tendencies prevent him from doing so.

He is going to get crushed, and probably hard.

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## ultron

anon45 said:


> Lol 2 presidents with the name Clinton is family Rule? Then we've had family rule since John Adams.
> 
> Hillary has had that baggage for 20 years with the Republicans unable to make a dent.
> 
> Trump meanwhile has made up for lost time, He is making it very easy for Hillary. Trump doesn't deal well with smart women, his sexist tendencies prevent him from doing so.
> 
> He is going to get crushed, and probably hard.




My predictions are almost always dead on. I predicted Assad would not fall when many thought otherwise. I predicted Trump would be Republican nom when many thought otherwise. I predict Trump would beat Hillary. Trump is a nasty dirty player. Trump will tear into Hillary so bad.


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## F-22Raptor

If Trumps high unfavorable ratings hold among minorities and women into November then he is royally screwed. Of course, I can't rule out a Trump presidency completely. This has been an unpredictable election season after all, but I think if the election were held tomorrow Hillary would skull drag him. A general election is a whole different ballgame then primaries.

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## ultron

F-22Raptor said:


> If Trumps high unfavorable ratings hold among minorities and women into November then he is royally screwed. Of course, I can't rule out a Trump presidency completely. This has been an unpredictable election season after all, but I think if the election were held tomorrow Hillary would skull drag him. A general election is a whole different ballgame then primaries.









woohoo


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## T-72M1

anon45 said:


> This is exactly what I mean for people who don't really understand US politics. The GOP has been stuck with their core white conservative base, they have been unable to reach minorities despite their efforts, and they made big efforts with the Hispanic community.
> 
> Primaries simply aren't the same as the General election, and Trump winning 40% or so of the 92% white Republican party won't mean much in the general, where Minorities make up about around 40% of the population, and don't even get me started with women.


he has 6 months to try and turn his negatives with those demographics around, so despite the unbelievably bad press he's got so far (some of it for good reason), he's very charismatic and immensely likeable afaict

either way, it'll be a lot of fun.


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## ultron

If I recall, just a few days ago, polls had Cruz up by double digits in Indiana. We do not trust polls too much. Trump led Hillary in early polls. Rasmussen poll puts Trump ahead of Hillary. It all depends on voter turnout, independents, and of course, events over the next few months. Independents at 40 to 50 percent is the biggest voter block. Trump is from New York, and with backing from Maine and New Jersey governors, Trump could very well take all three of these states in the general.


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## RabzonKhan

I couldn’t agree more with her, Elizabeth Warren is a powerful voice of the left-leaning Democrats. In the coming presidential election her support to Hillary will be very crucial.


*Elizabeth Warren savages Donald Trump after his Indiana win*
*




*




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/727692046102843392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/727691892696174592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/727691749460738048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/727691296727519233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/727691096244031492

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/727690955218952193


T-72M1 said:


> haha, *Donald is an animal,* he's going to absolutely annihilate crooked Hillary, she wont know what hit her.


At last we agree on something, you’re absolutely correct, “Donald is an animal”, and that’s why majority of Americans don’t want him in the White House.


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## ultron

Sanders COULD beat Hillary at the convention, if he can get the supers to switch to him like Obama did in 2008.


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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> At last we agree on something, you’re absolutely correct, “Donald is an animal”, and that’s why majority of Americans don’t want him in the White House.


I'm sure you know I meant that in a good way. 

but I sense much irrational fear and hate, you still cant see the false media narrative and lies about the guy, can you ? 

crooked hillary is going down, big league.


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## ultron

Hillary is getting so frustrated, losing state after state to Sanders, someone who has barely been a Democrat for a few months. She barely survived on winning New York and on supers. Trump is from New York, she is not. Trump will beat her in New York.


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## Zabaniyah

Something tells me that Trump will be torn to shreds in the general elections. Hillary has a lot of firepower in her arsenal. But, who knows...



flamer84 said:


> Not going to happen.Many Republicans will vote for Hillary and the Democrats will stampede themselves to vote for Hillary.90% of the Hispanic vote will go to Hillary,the Black vote is not far behind.The Republicans have nuked themselves with the Trump clown,they didn't take him seriously at the beginning and now they've handed the Presidency to Clinton.



That is true. However, many Americans still dislike Hillary - a lot. She is controversial. And Trump will use that against her to his advantage. This is one of those very rare elections where the front-runners are disliked. I couldn't quite remember the last time such a situation happened in the US.

If Trump loses however, the future of the Republican party will be in question.


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## ultron

I think Sanders will beat Hillary at the convention. Hillary doesn't beat Sanders a lot in terms of popular vote. If Sanders can turn the supers against Hillary then Sanders will win. Hillary beat Sanders by a bit in New York, but she is not from New York while Trump is, so I expect Trump to beat Hillary in New York in the general.


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## RabzonKhan

ultron said:


> Sanders COULD beat Hillary at the convention, if he can get the supers to switch to him like Obama did in 2008.


There is a huge difference between Obama and Bernie. Obama has been a Democrat from the beginning of his political carrier, and Bernie, on the other hand has never been a Democrat and even now he is only pretending to be a Democrat, and even today on his official Senate website he presents himself as an independent (*source*).

Here is a little background of Bernie’s political carrier; in the early 70s, Bernie was a member of, anti-capitalist, far-left, Liberty Union Party of Vermont, after losing elections under their banner he abandoned the party, and took part in elections as a (socialist) independent.

Initially he resisted running as a Democrat, but then very reluctantly joined it after the advice of many of his advisers.

In an interview he himself admitted that he joined the Democrats for media coverage and money, that just shows he is not a Democrat, but only is using the party for his own political agenda, and the Democratic leaders (super delegates) very well know that and they are not fools that they would switch their vote from a true Democrat and hand over their party to an outsider, who hardly appeals to the grassroots (most of his votes comes from, independents, and the far left fringe of the Democrat party) of democratic voters.



T-72M1 said:


> I'm sure you know I meant that in a good way.
> 
> but I sense much irrational fear and hate, you still cant see the false media narrative and lies about the guy, can you ?
> 
> crooked hillary is going down, big league.


Yeah, let’s blame the media. It must be the Medias fault too that he is a racist sociopathic liar?!


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## RabzonKhan

ultron said:


> Hillary is getting so frustrated, losing state after state to Sanders, someone who has barely been a Democrat for a few months. She barely survived on winning New York and on supers. Trump is from New York, she is not. Trump will beat her in New York.





ultron said:


> I think Sanders will beat Hillary at the convention. Hillary doesn't beat Sanders a lot in terms of popular vote. If Sanders can turn the supers against Hillary then Sanders will win. Hillary beat Sanders by a bit in New York, but she is not from New York while Trump is, so I expect Trump to beat Hillary in New York in the general.


As I said previously, he gets most of his votes from the independents and the far left fringe of the Democratic Party, just like a non-Republican Trump gets his from the far right (racist) fringe of the Republican Party.

Let’s look at some facts,

New York primary results:

Hillary, 1,054,083

Bernie, 763,469

she won more than 290,614 votes, now, does that look “barely” “bit” to you?

Popular vote, so far, she has won 12,438,491 million votes and Bernie got 9,302,657 million, that is a difference of 3,135,834 million more than him, so, doesn’t that look “a lot” to you?

Bty, Hillary got more votes than Trump in New York.


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## RabzonKhan

*Real Time with Bill Maher: New Rule – Lady and the Trump *


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## Falcon29

RabzonKhan said:


> As I said previously, he gets most of his votes from the independents and the *far left fringe of the Democratic Party*, just like a non-Republican Trump gets his from the far right (racist) fringe of the Republican Party.
> 
> .



You're right about everything, except that in bold. There are no people on the far left voting for him. He get's independents, moderate republicans, and moderate democrats. The far right vote for Cruz, the far left prefer Sanders/Clinton. Then you have one minority which just mostly votes Clinton. Trump can't get enough Latino support at this moment, although I don't see Latino's preferring Clinton either, unless they just want Trump to lose. 

Anyway, most people predicted Trump would never be the nominee, they are all nowhere to be found now. And the ex-Mexico president is now apologizing for his past remarks against Trump, some people are now having to accept reality, and this confirms that he is a force that will put up a fight against Clinton if not beat her. It's odd that @flamer84 is against Trump, since Trump is against Merkel's policies for Europe(the ones this member complains about a lot). It must be that flamer is on the far right, prefers neocon policies(no America first, pro-immigration, pro-Israel, Judeo-Christian value stuff). Trump on other hand, doesn't care about Judeo-christian stuff, is America first, and not fond of immigration. 

So either Flamer is confused about where his priorities lie, or he is not showing us his other side.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ultron

funny Trump parody


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## ultron

Trump parody


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## anon45

ultron said:


> *I think Sanders will beat Hillary at the convention.* Hillary doesn't beat Sanders a lot in terms of popular vote. *If Sanders can turn the supers against Hillary then Sanders will win.* Hillary beat Sanders by a bit in New York, but she is not from New York while Trump is, so I expect Trump to beat Hillary in New York in the general.



Hillary got more total votes in New York than Trump
http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/new-york





You are in dream land when it comes to Bernie swaying the pledged super delegates to vote against their state,as for the unpledged super delegates?  Bernie Sanders isn't liked in the senate in general. You are simply covering your ears and screaming 'LALALALA' at this point.

Hillary has already moved on, and Bernie isn't going to win California. by any number that will lead to him beating Hillary. He needs what, 65%+ votes in each of the remaining primaries to win?

Thankfully this is something that can and will be disproven soon enough, in about 2 months.

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## T-72M1

anon45 said:


> Hillary got more total votes in New York than Trump


because It was a closed primary there and registered dems could only vote for dems, and registered republicans could only vote in theirs. This prevented the large numbers of crossover votes that Trump's been getting, New York is also a deep blue state so there are obviously more democrats overall, even Ivanka and Eric trump couldn't vote because they hadn't registered in time. 

Trump is more liberal than Hillary on some issues, he's also a New York native, he could possibly rout her in the general when people can vote for whomever they want. 

also:


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## anon45

T-72M1 said:


> Trump is more liberal than Hillary on some issues, he's also a New York native, he could possibly rout her in the general when people can vote for whomever they want.



As you said, New York is a Blue stronghold, I give Trump the Same chance to take New York a he has in taking California, essentially 0,


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## Falcon29

anon45 said:


> As you said, New York is a Blue stronghold, I give Trump the Same chance to take New York a he has in taking California, essentially 0,



He'll have a chance in New York, he's without a doubt going to take Florida, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio....


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## flamer84

Falcon29 said:


> You're right about everything, except that in bold. There are no people on the far left voting for him. He get's independents, moderate republicans, and moderate democrats. The far right vote for Cruz, the far left prefer Sanders/Clinton. Then you have one minority which just mostly votes Clinton. Trump can't get enough Latino support at this moment, although I don't see Latino's preferring Clinton either, unless they just want Trump to lose.
> 
> Anyway, most people predicted Trump would never be the nominee, they are all nowhere to be found now. And the ex-Mexico president is now apologizing for his past remarks against Trump, some people are now having to accept reality, and this confirms that he is a force that will put up a fight against Clinton if not beat her. It's odd that @flamer84 is against Trump, since Trump is against Merkel's policies for Europe(the ones this member complains about a lot). It must be that flamer is on the far right, prefers neocon policies(no America first, pro-immigration, pro-Israel, Judeo-Christian value stuff). Trump on other hand, doesn't care about Judeo-christian stuff, is America first, and not fond of immigration.
> 
> So either Flamer is confused about where his priorities lie, or he is not showing us his other side.




Being a conservative in my political views (far right is a wrong term) doesn't mean that I have to support every populist clown and I believe Trump is just that.He makes some good points but also talks alot of BS.I wouldn't be to upset if he beats Hillary though but I think that's impossible.

I'm very much pro Israel in my views,I think that the far left is anti Israel.


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## T-72M1

anon45 said:


> As you said, New York is a Blue stronghold, I give Trump the Same chance to take New York a he has in taking California, essentially 0,


curious, how much of a chance did you give him to win the republican nomination ?


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## ultron

Triumph versus Killery if Sanders doesn't ruin it.


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## anon45

T-72M1 said:


> curious, how much of a chance did you give him to win the republican nomination ?



From the beginning i've acknowledged he had a small chance to win the republican nomination, his message of bigotry can find fertile support in a subset of hardcore conservative White republicans. but I have also remained absolutely convinced that he can't win the general. He simply doesn't have the demographic support, not with his message, and his own words will be thrown back at him through constant and vicious attack ads right up until election day.

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## Falcon29

flamer84 said:


> Being a conservative in my political views (far right is a wrong term) doesn't mean that I have to support every populist clown and I believe Trump is just that.He makes some good points but also talks alot of BS.I wouldn't be to upset if he beats Hillary though but I think that's impossible.
> 
> I'm very much pro Israel in my views,I think that the far left is anti Israel.



I don't think you're conservative, you have no relation to American conservatism. You're a Romanian, and rumor has it that your people don't get along with the rest of the Europeans. I don't know, and personally don't care or have interest in European politics. I'll leave that to you guys. On the other hand, when you come in here and declare a candidate who has the most momentum, a 'clown', without citing specifics, you lose your credibility. 

Again, you're severely misinformed on US political leanings. Far left and right, are pro-Israel, left is just slightly less pro-israel. Independents don't care about Israel, and care about America before anything else. Most of them are voting Trump.


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## ultron

Sanders has a lot of support from independents. Had Hillary not had superdelegates support, Sanders would have beaten Hillary. Hillary is very unpopular to democrats and independents.

Trump is so Democrat he's more Democrat than Obama

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/09/politics/donald-trump-national-debt-strategy/


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## ultron

If Sanders is robbed of nom because of superdelegates backing Hillary, Trump would get the win over Hillary because Sanders supporters will boycott.

http://www.cnn.com/election


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## gambit

ultron said:


> Sanders beat Hillary in Washington and Nebraska.
> 
> If Sanders is robbed of nom because of superdelegates backing Hillary, Trump would get the win over Hillary because Sanders supporters will boycott.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/election


Since Trump is five9s assured, it must be a Clinton-Trump match up. Sanders and his supporters know that there is no way Americans will elect an open socialist for President. Never mind that the Congress will effectively put a stop to whatever that Socialist President want to do, it is the principle of it. Americans will not elect Sanders. Sanders is doing this for his own ego, not because he genuinely believes he has any chance against Trump.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ultron

gambit said:


> Since Trump is five9s assured, it must be a Clinton-Trump match up. Sanders and his supporters know that there is no way Americans will elect an open socialist for President. Never mind that the Congress will effectively put a stop to whatever that Socialist President want to do, it is the principle of it. Americans will not elect Sanders. Sanders is doing this for his own ego, not because he genuinely believes he has any chance against Trump.




Sanders would have beaten Hillary if it weren't for superdelegates, Hillary being former New York senator, and black support for Hillary. You can see, more than 90% of young people voted for Sanders.


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## RabzonKhan

ultron said:


> Sanders has a lot of support from independents. Had Hillary not had superdelegates support, Sanders would have beaten Hillary.


You never give up, do you the funny thing is you make big claims, but never back them up with any facts!

There is a difference between fantasy and facts.

Here are some interesting facts:

Hillary has 1,705 pledged delegates.

Bernie has 1,454.

That means, Hillary has a lead of 251 pledged delegates, to close that gap, Bernie would need to win 66% of the remaining pledged delegates, and that is almost impossible, considering that so far, he is only been able to win about 45% of them.

See, even without the support of super delegates, Hillary still leads him!



> Hillary is very unpopular to democrats and independents.


Amazing, how can you even say things like that, so if Hillary is so unpopular with Democrats as you claim, then how come, she got more than 3 million more votes than Bernie? and who were those that voted for her, the Martians? 



Falcon29 said:


> You're right about everything, except that in bold. There are no people on the far left voting for him. He get's independents, moderate republicans, and moderate democrats. The far right vote for Cruz, the far left prefer Sanders/Clinton. Then you have one minority which just mostly votes Clinton. Trump can't get enough Latino support at this moment, although I don't see Latino's preferring Clinton either, unless they just want Trump to lose.


When I say, far left, it can also mean, very liberal, ultraliberal or there is a new name the liberals want to call them self, progressive and they are the ones who mostly voted for Bernie, Hillary is the one who got most of the moderate Democrats votes.

Latinos have also overwhelmingly voted Hillary.

And as you rightly pointed out, that the majority of Blacks have voted for her.

I don’t have time now, but if you’re interested, I can show you some interesting data.


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## ultron

RabzonKhan said:


> That means, Hillary has a lead of 251 pledged delegates, to close that gap, Bernie would need to win 66% of the remaining pledged delegates, and that is almost impossible, considering that so far, he is only been able to win about 45% of them.




It don't matter. Young people will boycott if Sanders is not nomed. Hillary cannot win general without young people. She would lose Indiana, Ohio, Florida, Colorado and therefore the general.


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## Sven

Both sides have brought their D+ game this year, so in case anyone was wondering, I'm voting for Tuxedo Stan in November.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## anon45

ultron said:


> Sanders has a lot of support from independents. Had Hillary not had superdelegates support, Sanders would have beaten Hillary.
> 
> Trump is so Democrat he's more Democrat than Obama
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/09/politics/donald-trump-national-debt-strategy/



Hillary is winning the popular vote. She is beating Sanders in both delegates and votes, even if you don't include the superdelegates.
As of April 8th Hillary had a 2.5 -2.7 Million vote lead over Sanders.



ultron said:


> Hillary is very unpopular to *democrats *and independents.







You are fighting against reality, and losing.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ther-behind-in-votes-than-he-is-in-delegates/



ultron said:


> It don't matter. Young people will boycott if Sanders is not nomed. Hillary cannot win general without young people. She would lose Indiana, Ohio, Florida, Colorado and therefore the general.



Your opinion on swing states is unsubstantiated. Just because you hope it, doesn't make it true.

examples:
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-b...easily-beats-ted-cruz-or-donald-trump/2275571

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/oh/ohio_trump_vs_clinton-5634.html



http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...linton-election-things-you-should-know-213875

http://www.npr.org/2016/05/10/47719...ory-tilt-the-map-in-clintons-favor-over-trump

Young people have never been a reliable voting block.
https://www.census.gov/prod/2014pubs/p20-573.pdf


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## ultron

Hillary leads Trump by 1 point in Florida. Trump leads Hillary by 4 points in Ohio. Hillary leads Trump by 1 point in Pennsylvania.

In Florida, Clinton is ahead of Trump 43 percent to 42 percent, but holds a 13-point advantage among women. Trump wins with men at 49 percent to 36 percent.
In Ohio, registered voters favor Trump over Clinton, 43 percent to 39 percent, with 49 percent to 32 percent of white voters going for the Republican candidate. Older voters also backed Trump. 
In Pennsylvania, Clinton leads 43 percent to 42 percent and holds a 7-point lead among voters under 35 years old. 

http://www.ibtimes.com/west-virgini...esults-could-push-donald-trump-bernie-2366284


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## RabzonKhan

ultron said:


> It don't matter. Young people will boycott if Sanders is not nomed. Hillary cannot win general without young people.


No doubt, Bernie is the Santa Claus of the millennials (he offers them lots of free stuff), but guess what, if they have to choose between, Hillary and Trump, majority of them favor Hillary.

Here are some interesting figures from two different polls:

In a hypothetical Clinton versus Trump contest, voters under 35 would choose Clinton by a crushing 52% – 19%, a preference that crosses demographic lines. Polls was conducted by the USA Today/Rock the Vote


In another poll, which was conducted by the Harvard IOP Spring:

If the election for the president were held today and the candidates for Hillary and Trump, for whom would you vote? 61% choose Hillary and only 25% choose Trump.



> She would lose Indiana, Ohio, Florida, Colorado and therefore the general.


For your kind information, Indiana is a red state, therefore, Hillary’s chances of winning there is already quite bleak.

If you do a little research, you will see that the Democrats already have an electoral advantage over the Republicans, just for the arguments sake, even if Trump wins Ohio, Florida and Colorado, he will still be unable to achieve 270 electoral votes to win the presidency.

Sorry to disappoint you!


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## ultron

Trump won West Virginia


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## ultron

Trump won Nebraska


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## ultron

Sanders won West Virginia

40% of Sanders voters will vote Trump if Sanders does not get nom. The rest will probably stay home.

http://www.redstate.com/joesquire/2...ders-voters-say-theyll-support-trump-hillary/


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## anon45

ultron said:


> Sanders won West Virginia
> 
> 40% of Sanders voters will vote Trump if Sanders does not get nom. The rest will probably stay home.
> 
> http://www.redstate.com/joesquire/2...ders-voters-say-theyll-support-trump-hillary/



:edit: Thought you were referring to nationwide, West Virginia is the Dixiecrat capital, they have voted repub in the general since 2000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_West_Virginia,_2012

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_West_Virginia,_2008
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_West_Virginia,_2004
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_West_Virginia,_2000

anyways nationwide polls give Sanders supporters voting for Hillary anywhere from 85% to 60% (only referring to young voters with this number. 15-21% will vote for Trump.

http://www.dailynewsbin.com/opinion...ton-the-other-15-will-lose-their-minds/24159/

http://www.dailynewsbin.com/opinion...or-hillary-clinton-if-shes-the-nominee/22716/

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/04/25/young-voters-overwhelmingly-prefer-clinton-over-trump-poll/

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...-bernie-sanders-supporters-bernie-bros-213881


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## anon45

ultron said:


> Trump will win election. People are fed up with illegals and letting Muslims enter the US. Mohammad made Islam in the 600s as an extremist version of Christianity, many centuries after Jesus made Christianity.



Repeating it does not make it true . Hillary will crush Trump according to actual analysis. 

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-november-insiders-222598

http://www.npr.org/2016/05/10/47719...ory-tilt-the-map-in-clintons-favor-over-trump

In short, you will see in November.


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## ultron

anon45 said:


> Repeating it does not make it true . Hillary will crush Trump according to actual analysis.
> 
> http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-november-insiders-222598
> 
> http://www.npr.org/2016/05/10/47719...ory-tilt-the-map-in-clintons-favor-over-trump
> 
> In short, you will see in November.




YOU will see in November


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## RabzonKhan

Meet the Republicans Speaking Out Against Trump. 
Norm Coleman is a former U.S. senator from Minnesota.

*
Norm Coleman: I will never vote for Donald Trump
He's a bigot, a misogynist, a fraud and a bully. 
*
I won't vote for Donald Trump.
I won't vote for Donald Trump because of who he isn't.

He isn't a Republican. He isn't a conservative. He isn't a truth teller.

He's not a uniter. Donald Trump isn't the leader America needs after eight years of a president who deliberately divided us and fanned the flames of racial and socioeconomic strife — and, by doing so, diminished America's standing in the world.

I also won't vote for Donald Trump because of who he is.
*A bigot. A misogynist. A fraud. A bully.*

Who Donald Trump is should have been at the core of his campaign for president of the United States.

Instead, what Trump wanted us to believe is a marketing package that has been sold to the American people.

*He is accused of stealing $40 million from thousands of fellow Americans through a phony "college" — promising opportunity to achieve the American Dream. He has left in his wake failed enterprises such as Trump Airlines, Trump Mortgage and Trump Vodka. His multiple corporate bankruptcies have left scores of "little guys" — suppliers — with unpaid bills. *He is not to be trusted with billions of dollars from the hardworking labor of millions of other fellow Americans.

*When a man mocks the disabled, dismisses the valor and honor of America's veterans, *such as Sen. John McCain, and defames the last Republican commander-in-chief, he is not to be trusted to lead our nation's military in times of peace or war.

*There is a coarseness to Trump that degrades the political discourse, such as when he calls women "fat pigs" or attacks a female reporter by a not-so-subtle reference to her menstrual cycle.*

And any man who declines to renounce the affections of the KKK and David Duke should not be trusted to lead America. Ever.

*We have been deceived by a con artist. A fraud wrapped in the veneer of being a businessman, who has slapped a slogan on a baseball cap and is closer to being president of the United States than any bigot, misogynist, fraud and bully in modern American history.*

Republican leaders are to blame. Of this there is no doubt. Republicans like me and others who could not believe or comprehend that anyone would take Donald Trump seriously.

*Republicans like me and others who did not understand just how angry, bitter, frustrated and anxious millions of Americans are about the future of our nation and their own economic and personal safety.*

Americans are hungry for a strong leader. And yes, Trump projects strength. But his embrace of Putin, his lauding the butchery of Tiananmen Square, and the praise he evokes from French fascist Jean-Marie Le Pen — the founder of France's National Front — and American fascist David Duke, signal a strength that is inconsistent with American ideals of justice and liberty.

It's still not too late to stop Donald Trump from winning the GOP nomination for president. I am an optimist and still hope that millions of Americans supporting Trump today will tomorrow recognize the poison in who he is. There are many delegates still to be chosen.

But it's also not too late for me and others to make it clear that under no circumstances will we support Donald Trump for president.

Who my choice may be if Donald Trump is the standard-bearer under the rules of the Republican Party, I do not know. I know it won't be Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders.

And I know it will never be Donald Trump.

*When Trump refused to condemn the embrace of the Ku Klux Klan and David Duke and then tried to blame his moral failing on a faulty earpiece, it became clear that it is not in his ear where there is a problem — it is in his heart.*

It is said that our leaders are a reflection of who we are.

If we believe that, then people like Donald Trump will fall.

*If not, then people like Donald Trump will rise up, and like every fascist before them, will lead a nation to its doom.*

*America is a great nation. We were a great nation long before Donald Trump sold us on a slogan — and we can be a great nation without Trump's false promises built on a legacy of fiction.

Keep America great.

Fire Donald Trump.*

*
*


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## ultron

latest poll shows Trump and Hillary statistically tied

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/i...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer



RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 304716
> 
> Meet the Republicans Speaking Out Against Trump.
> Norm Coleman is a former U.S. senator from Minnesota.
> 
> *
> Norm Coleman: I will never vote for Donald Trump
> He's a bigot, a misogynist, a fraud and a bully.
> *
> I won't vote for Donald Trump.
> I won't vote for Donald Trump because of who he isn't.
> 
> He isn't a Republican. He isn't a conservative. He isn't a truth teller.
> 
> He's not a uniter. Donald Trump isn't the leader America needs after eight years of a president who deliberately divided us and fanned the flames of racial and socioeconomic strife — and, by doing so, diminished America's standing in the world.
> 
> I also won't vote for Donald Trump because of who he is.
> *A bigot. A misogynist. A fraud. A bully.*
> 
> Who Donald Trump is should have been at the core of his campaign for president of the United States.
> 
> Instead, what Trump wanted us to believe is a marketing package that has been sold to the American people.
> 
> *He is accused of stealing $40 million from thousands of fellow Americans through a phony "college" — promising opportunity to achieve the American Dream. He has left in his wake failed enterprises such as Trump Airlines, Trump Mortgage and Trump Vodka. His multiple corporate bankruptcies have left scores of "little guys" — suppliers — with unpaid bills. *He is not to be trusted with billions of dollars from the hardworking labor of millions of other fellow Americans.
> 
> *When a man mocks the disabled, dismisses the valor and honor of America's veterans, *such as Sen. John McCain, and defames the last Republican commander-in-chief, he is not to be trusted to lead our nation's military in times of peace or war.
> 
> *There is a coarseness to Trump that degrades the political discourse, such as when he calls women "fat pigs" or attacks a female reporter by a not-so-subtle reference to her menstrual cycle.*
> 
> And any man who declines to renounce the affections of the KKK and David Duke should not be trusted to lead America. Ever.
> 
> *We have been deceived by a con artist. A fraud wrapped in the veneer of being a businessman, who has slapped a slogan on a baseball cap and is closer to being president of the United States than any bigot, misogynist, fraud and bully in modern American history.*
> 
> Republican leaders are to blame. Of this there is no doubt. Republicans like me and others who could not believe or comprehend that anyone would take Donald Trump seriously.
> 
> *Republicans like me and others who did not understand just how angry, bitter, frustrated and anxious millions of Americans are about the future of our nation and their own economic and personal safety.*
> 
> Americans are hungry for a strong leader. And yes, Trump projects strength. But his embrace of Putin, his lauding the butchery of Tiananmen Square, and the praise he evokes from French fascist Jean-Marie Le Pen — the founder of France's National Front — and American fascist David Duke, signal a strength that is inconsistent with American ideals of justice and liberty.
> 
> It's still not too late to stop Donald Trump from winning the GOP nomination for president. I am an optimist and still hope that millions of Americans supporting Trump today will tomorrow recognize the poison in who he is. There are many delegates still to be chosen.
> 
> But it's also not too late for me and others to make it clear that under no circumstances will we support Donald Trump for president.
> 
> Who my choice may be if Donald Trump is the standard-bearer under the rules of the Republican Party, I do not know. I know it won't be Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders.
> 
> And I know it will never be Donald Trump.
> 
> *When Trump refused to condemn the embrace of the Ku Klux Klan and David Duke and then tried to blame his moral failing on a faulty earpiece, it became clear that it is not in his ear where there is a problem — it is in his heart.*
> 
> It is said that our leaders are a reflection of who we are.
> 
> If we believe that, then people like Donald Trump will fall.
> 
> *If not, then people like Donald Trump will rise up, and like every fascist before them, will lead a nation to its doom.*
> 
> *America is a great nation. We were a great nation long before Donald Trump sold us on a slogan — and we can be a great nation without Trump's false promises built on a legacy of fiction.
> 
> Keep America great.
> 
> Fire Donald Trump.*





That's how it works. You pay money. You get education. If you are stupid, you will fail even if you are educated. If you are stupid enough to spend your money unwisely, then that is your own fault.


----------



## RabzonKhan

On July 25, 2016 Democratic National Convention will be held in Philadelphia. At the Convention Democratic Party will choose their nominees for President and VP.

The remaining Democratic primaries:

Kentucky May 17
*Oregon May 17 
Virgin Islands June 4 
Puerto Rico June 5 *
California June 7
Montana June 7
New Jersey June 7
*North Dakota June 7 
New Mexico June 7 
South Dakota June 7 
District of Columbia June 14 *

*



Unions prepare super PAC to take down Trump*
By Brian Mahoney and Kenneth P. Vogel 05/11/16
Top labor unions are finalizing a new super PAC that will solicit cash from outside donors to take down Donald Trump in key battleground states.

The super PAC is engineered by top officials at the AFL-CIO and three major public employee unions: the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees; the American Federation of Teachers; and the National Education Association. The Service Employees International Union considered joining the PAC but has since opted out.
Unions may opt in for $1 million, sources say. The PAC's organizers aim to raise about $50 million by soliciting money from unions and liberal donors outside the labor movement.

Super PACs are prohibited from donating to individual candidates or coordinating their media spending with political campaigns, but they may raise unlimited sums from individuals, corporations and unions to support or oppose candidates. They proliferated after the Supreme Court's _Citizens United_ decision cleared the way for a 2010 appellate decision that ended limits on contributions to independent-expenditure committees.
The new super PAC would not be the first funded by labor unions. But it represents a departure because in the past union-run super PACs have been funded almost entirely by the unions themselves. Unions have donated frequently to liberal super PACs outside the labor movement, but non-labor donors have seldom contributed to union-run super PACs. The new super PAC is intended to reverse that flow.
All the unions involved in the new venture have endorsed Hillary Clinton. *Read more*


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## ultron

RabzonKhan said:


> On July 25, 2016 Democratic National Convention will be held in Philadelphia. At the Convention Democratic Party will choose their nominees for President and VP.
> 
> The remaining Democratic primaries:
> 
> Kentucky May 17
> *Oregon May 17
> Virgin Islands June 4
> Puerto Rico June 5 *
> California June 7
> Montana June 7
> New Jersey June 7
> *North Dakota June 7
> New Mexico June 7
> South Dakota June 7
> District of Columbia June 14 *
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Unions prepare super PAC to take down Trump*
> By Brian Mahoney and Kenneth P. Vogel 05/11/16
> Top labor unions are finalizing a new super PAC that will solicit cash from outside donors to take down Donald Trump in key battleground states.
> 
> The super PAC is engineered by top officials at the AFL-CIO and three major public employee unions: the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees; the American Federation of Teachers; and the National Education Association. The Service Employees International Union considered joining the PAC but has since opted out.
> Unions may opt in for $1 million, sources say. The PAC's organizers aim to raise about $50 million by soliciting money from unions and liberal donors outside the labor movement.
> 
> Super PACs are prohibited from donating to individual candidates or coordinating their media spending with political campaigns, but they may raise unlimited sums from individuals, corporations and unions to support or oppose candidates. They proliferated after the Supreme Court's _Citizens United_ decision cleared the way for a 2010 appellate decision that ended limits on contributions to independent-expenditure committees.
> The new super PAC would not be the first funded by labor unions. But it represents a departure because in the past union-run super PACs have been funded almost entirely by the unions themselves. Unions have donated frequently to liberal super PACs outside the labor movement, but non-labor donors have seldom contributed to union-run super PACs. The new super PAC is intended to reverse that flow.
> All the unions involved in the new venture have endorsed Hillary Clinton. *Read more*




Bill Clinton and his globalism is what cost millions of American jobs. Trump is against that. Trump is good for American workers. These unions do not speak for blue collar workers. These are union bosses who steal money from workers and get fat cat rich themselves. They are oligarchs and oppressors.

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## RabzonKhan

ultron said:


> Bill Clinton and his globalism is what cost millions of American jobs.


Okay, here is a little challenge for you, give me one example of when the Republican Party opposed any international trade agreement?

Let me share something interesting with you, Bill Clinton is credited for signing the NAFTA agreement between the US, Canada and Mexico, but do you know, actually it was the senior Bush administration that negotiated and signed the first agreement and that was even before Clinton became president.



> Trump is against that. Trump is good for American workers. These unions do not speak for blue collar workers. These are union bosses who steal money from workers and get fat cat rich themselves. They are oligarchs and oppressors.


Are you talking about the same Trump,

Whose company was fined by the court for hiring illegal Polish construction workers,.

Whose companies turned down 94% of American job applicants, in favor of foreign workers.

Whose company applied to bring waitresses, cooks and other laborers into the country on foreign workers visas.

Whose branded merchandise, suits, neckties and shirts are made in China.


He is a sociopathic liar and a hypocrite! 

Cheers!

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## Desert Fox

Further proving Trump's point: If these people have their way we can say goodbye to freedom of speech


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## RabzonKhan

Donald Trump’s supporters!





Scott Leader (left) and Steve Leader (right).


The anti-immigrant sentiments at the heart of Donald Trump’s presidential campaign hit home for Boston early Wednesday, and the leading GOP candidate wasn’t nearly as contrite about it as he should have been.

According to police, a 58-year-old Mexican immigrant sleeping outside the JFK/UMass MBTA station was attacked by two South Boston brothers who were on their way home from a Red Sox game. State Police say Steven and Scott Leader both urinated on the man and beat him with a metal pole.

After they were arrested, one of them admiringly quoted his political hero. “Donald Trump was right; all these illegals need to be deported,” Scott Leader said.

Obviously, Trump isn’t personally responsible for the alleged behavior of two men in another state. But his reaction to hearing of the alleged beating of a Hispanic man was hardly worthy of a candidate for the Oval Office.

“It would be a shame. . . . I will say that people who are following me are very passionate. They love this country and they want this country to be great again. They are passionate.”

*Got that? They’re passionate. But allegedly urinating on a homeless, sleeping man and breaking his ribs has nothing to do with making America great again. Quite the opposite, actually.*


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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

*National Asian American and Pacific Islander PAC Endorses Clinton for President*

by FRANCES KAI-HWA WANG

The Asian American and Pacific Islander (AAPI) political action committeeCAPA21formally endorsed Hillary Clinton for president today, citing her track record on AAPI community issues and staff appointments. CAPA21 is the first major AAPI political action committee to make an endorsement in the 2016 presidential race. *Read more*













@AgNoStiC MuSliM ,
hey, if my memory serves me right, in 2008 elections you volunteered for Obama. What’s your views on the current elections?

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## RabzonKhan

Only in Third World countries corrupt politicians try to avoid releasing their tax returns, since the crooks have a lot to hide, what’s Trump hiding?





*
Hillary Clinton's campaign is keeping up its attacks on Donald Trump's refusal to release his tax returns.*

The former secretary of state's campaign on Saturday released a web video asking what the presumptive GOP nominee could be hiding in the documents. The clip mentions that every single presidential nominee since 1976 has released his tax returns, before showing occasions where Trump has previously said he'd release them.

The video shows Trump saying he'd release his tax returns if President Barack Obama released his birth certificate and if he ran for office. Both conditions have been met -- but Trump has yet to release his returns.
The clip also shows Trump saying he is thinking about releasing his tax returns and another occasion when he said he can't because he is under audit.

*Saturday's video continues a line of attack Clinton has deployed against Trump this week. Speaking in New Jersey on Wednesday, Clinton asked why Trump has not put out more information about how much he makes and pays in taxes.*

"Because when you run for president, especially when you become the nominee, that is kind of expected," Clinton said. "My husband and I have released 33 years of tax returns, we've got eight years on our website right now. So you have got to ask yourself, why does he not release them?"

On Wednesday, Trump told The Associated Press that he would not release his tax returns until his audits are complete. Given that he says his tax returns since 2009 are still under audit, it is highly unlikely Trump will release anything before the November 2016 election if he sticks to that reasoning.

ABC News' George Stephanopoulos pressed Trump Friday on why he won't release his tax returns until audits of them are complete, considering that he has previously released them for potential casino deals under similar circumstances. The Internal Revenue Service has said nothing precludes someone under audit from disclosing their returns.

*"It's none of your business, you'll see it when I release. But I fight very hard to pay as little tax as possible," Trump replied on "Good Morning America" when asked about his tax rate.*
Trump said he did not think the American people needed to see his tax returns.
"I don't think they do, but I do say this: I will really gladly give them. They're not going to learn anything, but it's under routine audit," he said. "You learn very little from tax returns."


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## Devil Soul

*American oil tycoon backs Trump's Muslim ban*
By News Desk
Published: May 15, 2016
3SHARES
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US oil magnate and businessman T.Boone Pickens supported Trump and his plan to ban unvetted Muslim immigrants at the SALT conference

Oil tycoon T. Boone Pickens endorsed Donald Trump’s US presidential campaign and supported the candidate’s controversial proposal to temporarily ban Muslims from entering the US in the interest of national security.

Speaking at the SALT conference in Las Vegas on Wednesday, Pickens said he agrees with Trump that Muslims should be banned from entering the country while they are vetted. “Cut them off till we can figure out who they are,” he told reporters at the SkyBridge Alternatives Conference.

*On Trump, Islamophobia and hate speech*

Pickens is not worried about the economic consequences of banning Muslims. “We’ve got plenty of people here. We’ve got a good economy and Muslims coming into the US, I don’t see that as impacting the economy at all.”

Legal scholars have debated the move. Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee for president, is widely criticised by even members of his own party for wanting to ban Muslim immigrants.

Late last year, Trump proposed a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the country, saying the hatred among them was “beyond comprehension”. This provoked outrage across the political arena, but the billionaire businessman and former reality television star has not backed down from his stance in recent months.

Some distanced themselves from the Muslim ban idea. Dick Cheney, former US vice-president, said “the stance goes against everything we stand for and believe in”.

*Muslim-American group condemns Donald Trump’s praise of ‘pig’s blood’ technique to stop terrorists*

Sam Zell, another billionaire who has donated to Republican candidates this election cycle, sided with Cheney. “The idea of studying anybody based on religion is insane,” he told the audience at SALT. He said that Trump showed up at a time when people were fed up.

Recently appointed London Mayor Sadiq Khan slammed Trump’s stance as “ignorant”. He warned that the policy is something that could make the US and UK “less safe”.

But Pickens acknowledges that Trump is not a typical White House contender. “I’m ready to take a chance on it,” said Pickens. “People are fed up, fed up with Washington and politicians.”


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## T-72M1

*Hispanics hate Trump? National poll looks into it–and gets a BIGTIME reality check*

Sit down liberals, this is going to come as a shock to you.

A new poll showed presumptive Republican presidential nominee *Donald Trump* with a sizeable lead over *Hillary Clinton* among *Hispanic voters*, the Daily Caller reported.

The One America News / Gravis Marketing poll tapped 1,500 registered voters, ten percent of whom were Hispanic. It has a plus or minus 2.5 percent margin of error.

The poll did find some slightly good news for Democrats as it showed Clinton leading Trump 51 to 49 percent when the two candidates were the only options.






The numbers changed to a 48 to 46 percent lead when “other” was available as a choice.

Trump and Clinton both grabbed at least 85 percent support among their parties as well, a damaging hit to the idea that the #NeverTrump campaign would have any real impact on the general election.

Clinton’s small lead fell within the margin or error and is a far cry from the landslide victory for Clinton many in the media were quick to predict.

Clinton did maintain a big advantage with African-Americans who broke for her at a rate of 87 percent.

It should be noted that the poll was conducted on May 10, early in the race before Trump really had a chance to hammer Clinton on her negatives.

Equally troubling for Clinton, Hispanic voters know the difference between illegal immigrants and all Hispanics, despite the Democrat machine’s rigorous attempts to tie the two together.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/05...to-it-and-gets-a-bigtime-reality-check-340579

http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/13/new-poll-trump-leading-hillary-with-hispanic-voters/

http://www.redstate.com/streiff/201...ds-hillary-clinton-10-points-among-hispanics/


and as expected he's also toned it down and walked back a bit on the muslim ban thing 

if this keeps up even @RabzonKhan will vote to make America great again in november

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## RabzonKhan

T-72M1 said:


> *Hispanics hate Trump? National poll looks into it–and gets a BIGTIME reality check*
> 
> Sit down liberals, this is going to come as a shock to you.
> 
> A new poll showed presumptive Republican presidential nominee *Donald Trump* with a sizeable lead over *Hillary Clinton* among *Hispanic voters*, the Daily Caller reported.
> 
> The One America News / Gravis Marketing poll tapped 1,500 registered voters, ten percent of whom were Hispanic. It has a plus or minus 2.5 percent margin of error.
> 
> The poll did find some slightly good news for Democrats as it showed Clinton leading Trump 51 to 49 percent when the two candidates were the only options.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The numbers changed to a 48 to 46 percent lead when “other” was available as a choice.
> 
> Trump and Clinton both grabbed at least 85 percent support among their parties as well, a damaging hit to the idea that the #NeverTrump campaign would have any real impact on the general election.
> 
> Clinton’s small lead fell within the margin or error and is a far cry from the landslide victory for Clinton many in the media were quick to predict.
> 
> Clinton did maintain a big advantage with African-Americans who broke for her at a rate of 87 percent.
> 
> It should be noted that the poll was conducted on May 10, early in the race before Trump really had a chance to hammer Clinton on her negatives.
> 
> Equally troubling for Clinton, Hispanic voters know the difference between illegal immigrants and all Hispanics, despite the Democrat machine’s rigorous attempts to tie the two together.
> 
> http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/05...to-it-and-gets-a-bigtime-reality-check-340579
> 
> http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/13/new-poll-trump-leading-hillary-with-hispanic-voters/
> 
> http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2016/05/13/¿que-donald-trump-leads-hillary-clinton-10-points-among-hispanics/
> 
> 
> and as expected he's also toned it down and walked back a bit on the muslim ban thing
> 
> if this keeps up even @RabzonKhan will vote to make America great again in november


I can never vote for a demagogue, you see, in Pakistan people like me are called “liberal fascist”, but Trump sees no difference between me and religious terrorists like the Isis, and that really pisses me off, and then his foreign policy scares the hell out of me(wants to dismantle NATO and encourage South Korea and Japan to develop nuclear weapons, has a soft corner for Putin), and if he has his way, we’ll become damn isolated like North Korea. 

Never Trump!


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## RabzonKhan

A pair of new ads out Monday, from pro-Clinton super PAC Priorities USA, go on the attack against presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump, skewering the candidate for his treatment of women.

One ad, titled "Speak," features women mouthing along with Trump's previous comments about women, as an audio track of Trump speaking plays.

"You could see there was blood coming out of her, wherever," one woman says.

*Another mouths: "If Ivanka weren't my daughter, perhaps I'd be dating her."*

"Does Donald Trump really speak for you?" the ad's narrator asks.





*Speak*






*Respect*


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## Desert Fox

Does anyone else find it strange that all of the countries that are funding global terrorist organizations (ISIS) have endorsed Hillary Clinton? @C130 @XenoEnsi-14 @Hamartia Antidote 


*ISIS, I mean, Saudi Arabia Endorses Hillary Clinton*






​The Clinton Foundation is receiving contributions from foreign governments, as Hillary Clinton gets ready for the 2016 presidential campaign.

*According to The Wall Street Journal, donors include the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Saudi Arabia, Oman,* Australia, Germany, and a Canadian government.

Hillary Clinton re-joined the foundation after leaving the State Department in 2013 and has fronted a $250 million endowment campaign, Fox News Reported.

The Journal has reported that foreign donors doubled in 2014:

-UAE donated between $1 million and $5 million last year.
-Germany gave between $100,000 and $250,000.
*-Saudi Arabia, which has contributed at least $10 million since the foundation’s founding in 1999.*

Does this sound strange to you?

*Why is Saudi Arabia, Oman, UAE interested in funding Clinton’s possible presidential campaign? *


*http://conservativepost.com/united-...llary-clinton-as-potential-president-in-2016/*
​


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## Hamartia Antidote

Desert Fox said:


> Does anyone else find it strange that all of the countries that are funding global terrorist organizations (ISIS) have endorsed Hillary Clinton? @C130 @XenoEnsi-14 @Hamartia Antidote



Well not sure if they are endorsing Hillary or simply shunning Trump.

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## Desert Fox

*Hillary’s Latest Scandal: She And Bill Siphoned $100 Mil From Mideast Leaders *







​*Scandal:* A new investigation reveals that Bill and Hillary Clinton took in at least $100 million from Middle East leaders. Can such a financially and ethically compromised candidate truly function as our nation’s leader?

The investigation by the Daily Caller News Foundation has uncovered a disturbing pattern of the Clintons’ raising money for the Clinton Foundation from regimes that have checkered records on human rights and that aren’t always operating in the best interests of the U.S. By the way, the $100 million we mentioned above doesn’t appear to include another $30 million given to the Clintons by two Mideast-based foundations and four billionaire Saudis.

All told, it’s a lot of money.

*“These regimes are buying access,”* Patrick Poole, a national security analyst who regularly writes for PJ Media, told the DCNF. *“You’ve got the Saudis. You’ve got the Kuwaitis, Oman, Qatar and the UAE (United Arab Emirates)*. There are massive conflicts of interest. It’s beyond comprehension.”

Well, maybe not, given that Clinton, during her four-year tenure as secretary of state, used a clearly illegal private email server which is now under investigation by the FBI. Her open e-mail system likely was hacked by Chinese, Russian and perhaps other spy agencies, say cyberespionage experts. Such negligence would seem to disqualify her from ever holding a sensitive foreign policy post in the government again.

Meanwhile, former U.S. Attorney Joseph E. diGenova told the Caller that he believes the FBI has launched a second, possibly more serious investigation into possible political corruption involving the Clinton Foundation. This is potentially explosive, given that the Clintons seem to have run their charity in a way that lines their own pockets.

The question is an open one: Did the oil-rich Mideast nations give lavishly to the Clinton Foundation in an effort to influence future U.S. policy? And what about Bill Clinton’s business partnership with Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Dubai’s authoritarian ruler, from 2003 to 2008? Clinton took away some $15 million in “guaranteed payments” from the deal, his tax records show.

A picture of extraordinary greed is emerging from both Clintons in the years after they hold the highest posts in the U.S. government.

In just the past three years, after her stint as the nation’s top diplomat, Hillary Clinton spoke to dozens of deep-pocket firms on Wall Street, typically charging $250,000 a pop to hear her wit and wisdom — despite her bitter condemnations of Wall Street during her campaign.

All told, *she took in an estimated $22 million from these speeches — an extraordinary amount, given the growing consensus among foreign-policy thinkers that Clinton was one of the worst secretaries of state ever.*

So why would Arab potentates and Wall Street magnates alike pony up so much money for the Clintons? Is it because they believe so strongly in the philanthropic mission of the Clinton Family Foundation? Or is it that they hoped to have influence on a future Hillary Clinton presidency, which would of course feature First Gentleman Bill Clinton?

Remember, a Hillary Clinton presidency once looked like a sure thing. *Now, given the growing possibility that she could be charged for criminal negligence for putting secret material on a private server, or perhaps even be charged with corruption, Clinton has far more serious problems than just getting elected. Her biggest problem may be staying out of prison.*

http://www.investors.com/politics/e...l-siphoned-100-mil-from-persian-gulf-leaders/​


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## XenoEnsi-14

Desert Fox said:


> Does anyone else find it strange that all of the countries that are funding global terrorist organizations (ISIS) have endorsed Hillary Clinton? @C130 @XenoEnsi-14 @Hamartia Antidote
> 
> 
> *ISIS, I mean, Saudi Arabia Endorses Hillary Clinton*
> 
> 
> View attachment 305862
> 
> ​The Clinton Foundation is receiving contributions from foreign governments, as Hillary Clinton gets ready for the 2016 presidential campaign.
> 
> *According to The Wall Street Journal, donors include the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Saudi Arabia, Oman,* Australia, Germany, and a Canadian government.
> 
> Hillary Clinton re-joined the foundation after leaving the State Department in 2013 and has fronted a $250 million endowment campaign, Fox News Reported.
> 
> The Journal has reported that foreign donors doubled in 2014:
> 
> -UAE donated between $1 million and $5 million last year.
> -Germany gave between $100,000 and $250,000.
> *-Saudi Arabia, which has contributed at least $10 million since the foundation’s founding in 1999.*
> 
> Does this sound strange to you?
> 
> *Why is Saudi Arabia, Oman, UAE interested in funding Clinton’s possible presidential campaign? *
> 
> 
> *http://conservativepost.com/united-...llary-clinton-as-potential-president-in-2016/*
> ​


Nope, doesn't sound strange. She's a career politician.

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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/728947807055446017


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/733768274970857473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/733707072018190336


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## T-72M1




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## RabzonKhan

Told you so, Latinos do not like the racist demagogue! 

And the important point to note is that they support Hillary overwhelmingly on all important issues.












*Latinos favor Clinton over Trump by 39-point margin, Fox News Latino poll finds*

With less than six months to go before the presidential elections, Latinos overwhelmingly support Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton over presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump, according to a Fox News Latino poll released on Friday.

The poll found that 62 percent of registered Latino voters would head to the ballot box for Clinton in November, while only 23 percent would support Trump on Election Day – a finding that many experts say is not surprising given the two candidates’ differing stances on issues important to Latinos.

"In terms of job performance, Hispanics said the former secretary of state would represent their views better than Trump (72 percent to 14 percent), making decisions about nuclear weapons (65 percent to 20 percent), nominating the next Supreme Court justice (66 percent to 24 percent) and making the decisions about using military force (60 percent to 29 percent), among other issues.

Clinton leads in every demographic group particularly among Latina women (68 to 17 percent) and among Mexican-Americans (the largest Hispanic group in the nation) 67 to 21 percent." *Read more*

@Falcon29 @T-72M1


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## Falcon29

@RabzonKhan 

We all knew that coming in, he still has a good chunk of support among them, and has time to reverse these trends.

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## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> *Hillary’s Latest Scandal: She And Bill Siphoned $100 Mil From Mideast Leaders *
> 
> 
> View attachment 305864
> 
> ​*Scandal:* A new investigation reveals that Bill and Hillary Clinton took in at least $100 million from Middle East leaders. Can such a financially and ethically compromised candidate truly function as our nation’s leader?
> 
> The investigation by the Daily Caller News Foundation has uncovered a disturbing pattern of the Clintons’ raising money for the Clinton Foundation from regimes that have checkered records on human rights and that aren’t always operating in the best interests of the U.S. By the way, the $100 million we mentioned above doesn’t appear to include another $30 million given to the Clintons by two Mideast-based foundations and four billionaire Saudis.
> 
> All told, it’s a lot of money.
> 
> *“These regimes are buying access,”* Patrick Poole, a national security analyst who regularly writes for PJ Media, told the DCNF. *“You’ve got the Saudis. You’ve got the Kuwaitis, Oman, Qatar and the UAE (United Arab Emirates)*. There are massive conflicts of interest. It’s beyond comprehension.”


That’s what I call third-rate fear mongering journalism. Someone should tell Mr. Patrick Poole that all the countries that he mentions, like it or not, are America’s closest allies in the Middle East, so what’s the damn big deal?

Unfortunately, this is how the American political system works, do I like it, of course not, did it needs to change, of course yes, but the change has to come from both sites, Republicans and Democrats.

And if someone is interested, I can show, Hillary has been more critical of Saudi Arabia than many other politicians, especially the Republicans.

Maybe to have a little balance, Mr. Patrick Poole should also look at Donald Trump’s business dealings in the Middle East.

Here’s Donald Trump with his daughter Ivanka promoting his golf club in Dubai:











> Well, maybe not, given that Clinton, during her four-year tenure as secretary of state, used a clearly illegal private email server which is now under investigation by the FBI. Her open e-mail system likely was hacked by Chinese, Russian and perhaps other spy agencies, say cyberespionage experts. Such negligence would seem to disqualify her from ever holding a sensitive foreign policy post in the government again.


Using a private email server is NOT illegal, someone seriously needs to educate himself, and there are no credible reports to suggest that her private email was hacked by the Chinese, Russians or any other spy agencies.

Having said that, I agree, what Hillary did was undefendable, without any doubt, it was a poor judgment on her part, but so far, all the information which has been made public, it clearly shows that what she did was not criminal.



> Meanwhile, former U.S. Attorney Joseph E. diGenova told the Caller that he believes the FBI has launched a second, possibly more serious investigation into possible political corruption involving the Clinton Foundation. This is potentially explosive, given that the Clintons seem to have run their charity in a way that lines their own pockets.


Typical baloney, since I have not come across any other source supporting such allegations.



> The question is an open one: Did the oil-rich Mideast nations give lavishly to the Clinton Foundation in an effort to influence future U.S. policy? *And what about Bill Clinton’s business partnership with Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Dubai’s authoritarian ruler,* from 2003 to 2008? Clinton took away some $15 million in “guaranteed payments” from the deal, his tax records show.


Good question, or maybe not, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum is also Trumps business partner, Urdu/Hindi proverb, iss hamam mein sab nange hain (all are in the same boat).


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## RabzonKhan

Falcon29 said:


> @RabzonKhan
> 
> We all knew that coming in, he still has a good chunk of support among them, and has time to reverse these trends.


Fair enough, the reason I mentioned you was because in one of your previous post you had questioned, Hillary’s support among the Hispanic voters.

In my opinion, Trump is stuck in the Catch-22 situation, if he tries to increase his support among the Hispanics, he could very well lose the support of white racists, coming days and months are going to be very interesting.

Cheers!


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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> racist demagogue!


so you hate the guy, fine, but do not make the mistake of underestimating his appeal, because it is not exclusively limited to racial nationalists like the kkk and anti muslim/immigrant/brown/latino bigots.

He's on tv 24/7, helicopters follow his convoy around when he's holding meetings, and it's broadcast globally (his NRA address yesterday was live on a couple channels here in Hindustan)

He continues to _earn_ massive amounts of media, all he has to do is show up:







'crooked' Hillary is only counting on his -ves to stick and hoping for him to finally trip over himself with something stupid he says, not going to happen, odds are the people will only love him more for it 

16 stalwart republicans down, democrat Hillary is next. 

The upside, I truly don't believe the guy is a racist, or that he thinks that all muslims are terrorists etc, he made a big play for the right wing (out right winged everybody) and won a landslide primary, next he'll make a play for the left and minorities etc and win big (or enough) of them overall as well.

the foreign policy of a Trump presidency would be pragmatic and measured, maybe even a bit to the left of _crooked_ Hillary, he might surprise us all.

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> the racist demagogue!


You still haven't proven he's a racist, yet you keep parroting on like a SJW "racist demagogue".


*Hillary Clinton with "former" KKK Grand Dragon Robert Byrd*












RabzonKhan said:


> That’s what I call third-rate fear mongering journalism. Someone should tell Mr. Patrick Poole that all the countries that he mentions, like it or not, are America’s closest allies in the Middle East, so what’s the damn big deal?
> 
> Unfortunately, this is how the American political system works, do I like it, of course not, did it needs to change, of course yes, but the change has to come from both sites, Republicans and Democrats.
> 
> And if someone is interested, I can show, Hillary has been more critical of Saudi Arabia than many other politicians, especially the Republicans.
> 
> Maybe to have a little balance, Mr. Patrick Poole should also look at Donald Trump’s business dealings in the Middle East.
> 
> Here’s Donald Trump with his daughter Ivanka promoting his golf club in Dubai:
> View attachment 306214
> 
> View attachment 306215
> 
> 
> 
> Using a private email server is NOT illegal, someone seriously needs to educate himself, and there are no credible reports to suggest that her private email was hacked by the Chinese, Russians or any other spy agencies.
> 
> Having said that, I agree, what Hillary did was undefendable, without any doubt, it was a poor judgment on her part, but so far, all the information which has been made public, it clearly shows that what she did was not criminal.
> 
> 
> Typical baloney, since I have not come across any other source supporting such allegations.
> 
> 
> Good question, or maybe not, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum is also Trumps business partner, Urdu/Hindi proverb, iss hamam mein sab nange hain (all are in the same boat).


Trump is not the one getting $100 million donations from Terrorist supporting countries.



Falcon29 said:


> @RabzonKhan
> 
> We all knew that coming in, he still has a good chunk of support among them, and has time to reverse these trends.


Trump is leading Hillary in the latest polls. Nobody but the mentally unstable wants a murderer/liar for President.

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## Falcon29

@RabzonKhan @Desert Fox 

I'm not sure, his wall policy will remain, so he won't lose support from whites. White's aren't the only ones that care about illegal immigration. I don't expect him to exceed 40-45% support among latino's, but that would be enough for him to win if he does.


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## T-72M1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/734468142303305728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/734468447829004288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/734517899960934400

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## T-72M1

too bad crazy bernie has no chance






she'll lose big league.


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## Assadynasty

Trump won Washington


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## RabzonKhan

T-72M1 said:


> so you hate the guy, fine, but do not make the mistake of underestimating his appeal, because it is not exclusively limited to racial nationalists like the kkk and anti muslim/immigrant/brown/latino bigots.
> 
> He's on tv 24/7, helicopters follow his convoy around when he's holding meetings, and it's broadcast globally (his NRA address yesterday was live on a couple channels here in Hindustan)
> 
> He continues to _earn_ massive amounts of media, all he has to do is show up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'crooked' Hillary is only counting on his -ves to stick and hoping for him to finally trip over himself with something stupid he says, not going to happen, odds are the people will only love him more for it
> 
> 16 stalwart republicans down, democrat Hillary is next.
> 
> The upside, I truly don't believe the guy is a racist, or that he thinks that all muslims are terrorists etc, he made a big play for the right wing (out right winged everybody) and won a landslide primary, next he'll make a play for the left and minorities etc and win big (or enough) of them overall as well.
> 
> the foreign policy of a Trump presidency would be pragmatic and measured, maybe even a bit to the left of _crooked_ Hillary, he might surprise us all.
> 
> View attachment 306218


I agree with you, I hope the Democrats will not make the same mistake Republican candidates made in underestimating Trump, assuming that it’s going to be a landslide victory for Hillary gives the wrong signal to the Democrats voters, since it can lower their turnout and that can only benefit Trump.

And then we have this socialist Bernie, who won’t give up, even though he very well knows there is no way that he can win, he is becoming like another Ralph Nader.

Hillary is fighting on two fronts, but I have confidence in her, as she has said again and again that she is going to fight for every vote.

Having said that, it’s not going to be a cakewalk for Trump either, the dirty dog whistle politics Trump has been playing in the primaries, I don’t think is going to be very effective with the general election voters.

You can believe whatever you want, but the fact is, it is no coincidence that the entire racist brigade is supporting Trump.



Desert Fox said:


> You still haven't proven he's a racist, yet you keep parroting on like a SJW "racist demagogue".
> 
> 
> *Hillary Clinton with "former" KKK Grand Dragon Robert Byrd*
> 
> View attachment 306273
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 306274​
> 
> Trump is not the one getting $100 million donations from Terrorist supporting countries.
> 
> 
> Trump is leading Hillary in the latest polls. Nobody but the mentally unstable wants a murderer/liar for President.


I am NO SJW, I’ve been on the Internet since 2004, you can read my posts, I have zero tolerance for religious terrorists and racist demagogues.

anon45@ has already explained to you, but it looks like you are in some kind of a denial.

Lol, so now you’re going to call Hillary a racist, nice try, I will suggest that you read, Robert Byrd’s book.




*Trump polls miserably among Asian Americans*

By Hanna Trudo 05/23/16

Donald Trump is wildly unpopular among Asian-American voters, who are flocking to the Democratic Party, according to a new survey.

*Only 19 percent of Asian Americans hold a favorable view of the presumptive Republican nominee, according to a survey of more than 1,000 registered Asian Americans conducted by three Asian-American NGOs, while 61 percent view him unfavorably.*

*That's nearly the opposite of Hillary Clinton, who is viewed favorably by 62 percent of Asian Americans — one of the fastest-growing minority populations in the country — and unfavorably by 26 percent. Clinton also scores 14 percentage points higher than her Democratic opponent Bernie Sanders, who earns a 48 percent favorability rating.*

The survey asked respondents whether they planned to vote for a generic Republican or a Democrat in upcoming House and Senate races; it found that Asian American voters preferred Democrats by roughly a two-to-one margin. All told, Asian Americans hold a net favorable view of the Democratic Party, 66 percent favorable to 19 percent unfavorable, and a net unfavorable view of the GOP, 46 percent unfavorable to 28 percent favorable.

In 2012, Asian-Americans voted for Barack Obama over Mitt Romney 73 percent to 26 percent — and they've moved even further toward the Democratic Party since then. While just 35 percent of Asian Americans identified as Democrats in 2012, 47 percent do so today; those identifying as Republicans have declined slightly from 18 percent in 2012 to 15 percent in 2016, within the survey's margin of error.

*One thing that seems to be driving the shift: rhetoric about minorities from Republican politicians, even if it isn't directed at Asian Americans themselves. Forty-one percent of those surveyed, for example, said they would "vote for someone else" if a candidate "expressed strong anti-immigrant views" even if they agreed on other issues. A similar percentage said they would switch their votes if candidate expressed "strong anti-Muslim views."*

*Trump would appear to be an equal-opportunity offender — he has angered Latinos by accusing Mexico of sending "rapists" across the border and outraged Muslims by calling for a complete ban on their entry into the United States. But he has also repeatedly imitated Asian accents at his rallies, portraying Chinese trade negotiators as saying "We want deal" in one instance and doing an impression of an Indian call-center worker in another.*

The survey was conducted over landlines and cell phones from April 11 to May 17 by the Asian and Pacific Islander American (APIA) Vote, Asian Americans Advancing Justice (AAJC) and AAPI Data and included 1,212 registered Asian American voters, with a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percent.


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## C130

if you want Hillary for U.S President don't complain when she continues our current foreign policy of war and destabilization of the Middle East.

Trump for POTUS would be the best thing for Muslims and World Peace.

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## Assadynasty

C130 said:


> if you want Hillary for U.S President don't complain when she continues our current foreign policy of war and destabilization of the Middle East.
> 
> Trump for POTUS would be the best thing for Muslims and World Peace.




Both Trump and Hillary are war hawks. Hillary I think is racist also.


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## C130

Assadynasty said:


> Both Trump and Hillary are war hawks. Hillary I think is racist also.




for one Trump isn't a racist and two how is Trump a warhawk?? he wants to fix America not destabilize the Middle East and the World.


besides him saying let's ban all Muslims entering the U.S.....which myself think is a overreaction on Trumps part. He should have said let's go after the people who created and are funding ISLAMIC TERRORISM and stop making the same mistakes.

I.E

The Bush Family








The Clintons







Obama







Zionists







Wahhabism

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> I am NO SJW, I’ve been on the Internet since 2004, you can read my posts, I have zero tolerance for religious terrorists and racist demagogues.
> 
> anon45@ has already explained to you, but it looks like you are in some kind of a denial.
> 
> Lol, so now you’re going to call Hillary a racist, nice try, I will suggest that you read, Robert Byrd’s book.



Going by your logic Hillary is racist. So yeah. BTW, why do you depend on others to fight your battles (*even though anon acknowledged there is no proof Trump is racist*). You made a claim Trump is racist, therefore the onus lies on you to prove he's racist.



*Anti-Trump Protesters Attack Police In Albuquerque, New Mexico*
*@3:50 In Video*

*



*​


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## Assadynasty




----------



## Darmashkian

T-72M1 said:


> so you hate the guy, fine, but do not make the mistake of underestimating his appeal, because it is not exclusively limited to racial nationalists like the kkk and anti muslim/immigrant/brown/latino bigots.
> 
> He's on tv 24/7, helicopters follow his convoy around when he's holding meetings, and it's broadcast globally (his NRA address yesterday was live on a couple channels here in Hindustan)
> 
> He continues to _earn_ massive amounts of media, all he has to do is show up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'crooked' Hillary is only counting on his -ves to stick and hoping for him to finally trip over himself with something stupid he says, not going to happen, odds are the people will only love him more for it
> 
> 16 stalwart republicans down, democrat Hillary is next.
> 
> The upside, I truly don't believe the guy is a racist, or that he thinks that all muslims are terrorists etc, he made a big play for the right wing (out right winged everybody) and won a landslide primary, next he'll make a play for the left and minorities etc and win big (or enough) of them overall as well.
> 
> the foreign policy of a Trump presidency would be pragmatic and measured, maybe even a bit to the left of _crooked_ Hillary, he might surprise us all.
> 
> View attachment 306218



As I have said before, I am sure this guy is a shameless opportunist & a misogynist. But not a racist or anti-Muslim

He will change his views & policies whenever required to get the political ecosystem,funding & votes required to help him win the election.

But frankly speaking,Hillary is no angel compared to him if you ask me. She is too controversial,is close to the neo-cons(but not one) & takes funds from foreign nations & foundations. 

As an Indian, I feel both of them have their pros & cons for the Indian sub-continent region & the Asia Pacific region.


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## JanjaWeed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/735839582181171201wow..never thought this would happen. Wouldnt bet against him winning the big one now...especially since Clinton is struggling to shrug of that e-mail controversy!


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## cloud4000

JanjaWeed said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/735839582181171201wow..never thought this would happen. Wouldnt bet against him winning the big one now...especially since Clinton is struggling to shrug of that e-mail controversy!



It's truly a shame that the main choices for US voters are Clinton and Trump. And I think it will be Clinton because she the least worst of two even if you take into consideration her corruption and incompetence. And she's the devil you know.
But I'm not voting for either one of them. People should realize they are more choices on the ballot then Clinton and Trump. I'm picking my next president from one of them.


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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> I agree with you, I hope the Democrats will not make the same mistake Republican candidates made in underestimating Trump, assuming that it’s going to be a landslide victory for Hillary gives the wrong signal to the Democrats voters, since it can lower their turnout and that can only benefit Trump.


apparently traditionally it is the republicans who turn out in force when they are passionate about the issues. (I dont know, but heard more than one pundit say so, so..)

Trump has so much going for him, he's very liberal in many ways like on government healthcare and social issues (lgbt etc for one). His anti-globalist trade rhetoric already has many union people going to him, a lot of Bernie union workers will also go to him, not Hillary when he eventually bows out. His name recognition/celebrity status (as a bad *** billionaire boss and generally super rich successful guy) will draw out traditional non or first time voters, then there's others who dont particularly like some of his policies but just want to destroy Washington by electing him, all this is in addition to his legion of already dedicated fans, and he's chipping away on the #nevertrump 'true' conservatives by already releasing his SCOTUS picks, which will go a long way in placating them, and he's done that relatively early in the cycle (pre convention) so it gives him enough room to later pivot and make a biig play for the minority vote and a subject like SCOTUS picks will be long past, the average Juan will be drawn to him even if the ideological 'head deep in politics and policy' guys on both sides remain on the #NeverTrump train, which is going to end up exactly like this:






and she's also a very weak candidate, terrible public speaker, an unlikable personality in general, Trump just blows her away, he's affable, disarming, charismatic and one of the best public speakers of all time. Did you see his Cali rally yesterday ?






he's already going for the minorities by being all inclusive and 'making America great' _*for everyone*_, etc

and for those reasons and many more, I'm calling a Trump landslide this time.

besides, the only other time either the Dems or GOP maintained a post 2 term incumbency ever was post Ronaldus Maximus, G.H.W Bush (single term)

Trump is Reagan 2.0, prepare for 12 years of republican rule at the very least, sorry Rabzon.

but its a very nice place, and Trump is overall a good man, nobody is going to round up muslims, mexicans, blacks and other brown and yellow and blue and green minorities, it'll be fine.

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## Assadynasty

Trump has 1238 delegates


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## JanjaWeed

cloud4000 said:


> It's truly a shame that the main choices for US voters are Clinton and Trump. And I think it will be Clinton because she the least worst of two even if you take into consideration her corruption and incompetence. And she's the devil you know.
> But I'm not voting for either one of them. People should realize they are more choices on the ballot then Clinton and Trump. I'm picking my next president from one of them.


Oh well..left / liberal ideology is not exactly the choice of flavor right now. At the start of this campaign I expected Trump to be one of the first ones to drop out. However he happened to be at the right place at the right time. Prevailing domestic conditions & geopolitical conflicts internationally made his job that much easier. With Clinton you are going to get more of the same...& with Trump you never know what to expect. So the choice is for the Americans to make... Do they want to maintain the status-quo or join Trump bandwagon & embark on an adventurous journey? Going to be interesting...

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## C130

if Trump focuses on Ohio,Pennsylvania, and Florida and wins those three states he'll beat Hillary easily.

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## Assadynasty

C130 said:


> if Trump focuses on Ohio,Pennsylvania, and Florida and wins those three states he'll beat Hillary easily.




and Virginia


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## CorporateAffairs

Trump will be the next US prez. Let there be no doubts about it.

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## jammersat



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## T-72M1




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## RabzonKhan

C130 said:


> if you want Hillary for U.S President don't complain when she continues our current foreign policy of war and destabilization of the Middle East.
> 
> Trump for POTUS would be the best thing for Muslims and World Peace.


First of all, does anyone really know what Trumps foreign policy is? But what little we know is that if he has his way most probably he will dismantle NATO, and that would be wonderful for his good friend Putin, without NATO it would be easier for Putin to rebuild (in Reagan’s words, evil Empire) Soviet Union.

While the United States has had a bipartisan policy of stopping the spread of nuclear weapons, Mr. Trump will have no problem if South Korea and Japan acquired nuclear weapons.

If we go by his rhetoric he would most probably start trade wars with our largest trading partners, particularly China, Mexico and Japan.

He will ban 1.5 billion Muslims for traveling to the United States and imagine if the Muslims countries retaliate and ban Americans for traveling to their countries, that will mean, Americans would not be able to travel to more than 50 countries in the world.

He has said on several interviews that he will bring back waterboarding and even worse, so in other words, we will join the company of countries like North Korea, Iran and Saudi Arabia.

He will kill the families of terrorists that will include women, children and old people, that’s exactly how AQ, ISIS and Taliban deals with their enemies.

Well, I don’t know about you and others Trump supporters, but to me it does not look like we are going to have a peaceful world if this hotheaded man takes over the White House.



Desert Fox said:


> Going by your logic Hillary is racist. So yeah. BTW, why do you depend on others to fight your battles (*even though anon acknowledged there is no proof Trump is racist*). You made a claim Trump is racist, therefore the onus lies on you to prove he's racist.
> 
> 
> 
> *Anti-Trump Protesters Attack Police In Albuquerque, New Mexico*
> *@3:50 In Video*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *​


My “logic”, really? you are comparing apples and stale oranges. No doubt, Robert Byrd ones was part of KKK, but he had the decency to denounce his past, unlike, Trumps racist KKK, and Nazi supporters.

Correction, it’s not a “battle”, but a debate/exchange of opinions, so take it easy.

Tomorrow we’ll discuss this further.


----------



## C130

RabzonKhan said:


> First of all, does anyone really know what Trumps foreign policy is? But what little we know is that if he has his way most probably he will dismantle NATO, and that would be wonderful for his good friend Putin, without NATO it would be easier for Putin to rebuild (in Reagan’s words, evil Empire) Soviet Union.
> 
> While the United States has had a bipartisan policy of stopping the spread of nuclear weapons, Mr. Trump will have no problem if South Korea and Japan acquired nuclear weapons.
> 
> If we go by his rhetoric he would most probably start trade wars with our largest trading partners, particularly China, Mexico and Japan.
> 
> He will ban 1.5 billion Muslims for traveling to the United States and imagine if the Muslims countries retaliate and ban Americans for traveling to their countries, that will mean, Americans would not be able to travel to more than 50 countries in the world.
> 
> He has said on several interviews that he will bring back waterboarding and even worse, so in other words, we will join the company of countries like North Korea, Iran and Saudi Arabia.
> 
> He will kill the families of terrorists that will include women, children and old people, that’s exactly how AQ, ISIS and Taliban deals with their enemies.
> 
> Well, I don’t know about you and others Trump supporters, but to me it does not look like we are going to have a peaceful world if this hotheaded man takes over the White House.
> 
> 
> My “logic”, really? you are comparing apples and stale oranges. No doubt, Robert Byrd ones was part of KKK, but he had the decency to denounce his past, unlike, Trumps racist KKK, and Nazi supporters.
> 
> Correction, it’s not a “battle”, but a debate/exchange of opinions, so take it easy.
> 
> Tomorrow we’ll discuss this further.




I can't speak for Trump but for what I have heard.


Foreign Policy- he's against getting us involved in stupid wars and destabilizing the Middle East (was against the Iraq war, Libya, and Syria)
Will build a wall to keep out illegal Mexicans and other Latinos, most of whom are murderers and drug traffickers.

Nukes- Japan will never build or use nuclear weapons. my personal opinion is South Korea should have nukes if North Korea can have them. If China doesn't like that they should put pressure on North Korea to abandon it's own nuclear program.

so If SK wants them Trump won't stop them.


Trade wars- they are already happening. we are getting ripped off. China devalues it's currency and dumps it's cheap products into our country. we have a $300+ billion trade deficient with China that needs to be fixed.

NAFTA needs to go TPP won't happen under Trump

Ban of Muslims- he'll renegade on that rhetoric 100%

Waterboarding- I don't have a problem with that

Kill the families of terrorists- this is the only way to truly wipe out terrorists like IS. they take multiple wives and have dozens of kids who then are indoctrinated to follow in their footsteps. if you kill the father the children will just continue his legacy and make more terrorist children themselves. it's like a Hydra. either we don't fight and kill terrorists or we wipe them and their lineage out.


World peace- well Trump couldn't be any worse than the Nobel Peace Prize winning current POTUS and he isn't a Neocon like John McCain.


Trump isn't racist and neither is his supporters.

if you look at videos of anti-trump protesters you'll see who is truly racist and intolerant ones are in this country.

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## jammersat

Bernie Sanders moves toward a fight over Israel, forcing Hillary Clinton to navigate a splintered party


http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-israel-democrats-20160527-snap-story.html



What it means is that bernie sanders is not really running for presidency , but rather to force hillary clinton support israel when she gets presidency , which she will


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Tomorrow we’ll discuss this further.



So where's your proof Trump's racist? Oh, right, you have none.


*Retired KKK Grand Dragon Robert Byrd Endorsed Hillary*










​


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## Gauss

I am supporting donald trump for president. West has thought too much about whats best for the world. Now western countries have to think whats best for their own selves as well. Countries like China will think for the world from now on.


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## Desert Fox

C130 said:


> if you look at videos of anti-trump protesters you'll see who is truly racist and intolerant ones are in this country.



Case in point:







This is why Trump MUST win, or else this country can say goodbye to Freedom of Speech.​*Who's rioting and burning Police Cars? Anti-Trump protesters.*

*Who's attacking Police at every Trump rally? Anti-Trump protesters.*

*Who's shutting down free speech at every pro-Conservative rally? Anti-Trump protesters.*

*Who's attacking and beating up people with different opinions? Anti-Trump protesters.*

Yet morons have the audacity to call Trump a Fascist, Nazi, KKK, racist, but can't provide any evidence to back their allegations.

@T-72M1 @C130 @Falcon29 @XenoEnsi-14

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## Assadynasty

Illegal Mexicans are spooked by Trump because they know Trump is not a talker.


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## T-72M1

Desert Fox said:


> Case in point:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


lol Milo, the guy has a habit of _triggering_ SJWs, have you seen the trigglypuff event ? 

and then there was the whole thing where 'Trump 2016' scribbled with chalk sent a whole bunch to the psych ward or something , these western lefty liberal kids have lost the plot completely, great to see some push-back from some sections of the youth. They need more Milo.

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## Falcon29

C130 said:


> Kill the families of terrorists- this is the only way to truly wipe out terrorists like IS. they take multiple wives and have dozens of kids who then are indoctrinated to follow in their footsteps. if you kill the father the children will just continue his legacy and make more terrorist children themselves. it's like a Hydra. either we don't fight and kill terrorists or we wipe them and their lineage out.



A lot of you misunderstood what he was referencing to, it wasn't anything to do with overseas operations, it was related to domestic incident in California, where he thought family members where hiding something about the son and his wife. The media turned it into something overseas, it wasn't ever and isn't. I'm not a proponent of declaring wars overseas, I don't care who it is. We shouldn't be at war with ISIS, just extend lawful and effective support to allies that request it. This whole family thing is exploited by media, to label Palestinians as terrorists and justify Israeli tactics, which they are actually the only people that target families of anyone involved in government. Which is war crime. And Trump doesn't support Israel or care about it, he just has to pretend he does because of the decades old religious brainwashing of Americans to support secular Israel. 



Desert Fox said:


> Case in point:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is why Trump MUST win, or else this country can say goodbye to Freedom of Speech.​*Who's rioting and burning Police Cars? Anti-Trump protesters.*
> 
> *Who's attacking Police at every Trump rally? Anti-Trump protesters.*
> 
> *Who's shutting down free speech at every pro-Conservative rally? Anti-Trump protesters.*
> 
> *Who's attacking and beating up people with different opinions? Anti-Trump protesters.*
> 
> Yet morons have the audacity to call Trump a Fascist, Nazi, KKK, racist, but can't provide any evidence to back their allegations.
> 
> @T-72M1 @C130 @Falcon29 @XenoEnsi-14



I have mixed feelings about that guy, he's Jewish is trying to project what Trump's fanbase agenda stands for. A lot of what he's trying to project is anti-Palestinian/pro-Jewish. And he's trying to downplay anti-Jewish sentiment among Trump fan base. You are absolutely right about who's instigating riots and violence. I'm not fond of this guy though.

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## Desert Fox

Falcon29 said:


> I have mixed feelings about that guy, he's Jewish is trying to project what Trump's fanbase agenda stands for. A lot of what he's trying to project is anti-Palestinian/pro-Jewish. And he's trying to downplay anti-Jewish sentiment among Trump fan base. You are absolutely right about who's instigating riots and violence. I'm not fond of this guy though.


Yeah true i share the same views on this Milo guy, i have noticed his pro-Zionist views in a lot of his videos and im no fan of his actually, he's a Kosher "conservative" (i don't even know how they could call him a conservative when he's a homosexual). I only posted this video because it was the latest example of leftist idiots shutting down a meeting they deemed opposing their views.

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## T-72M1

Falcon29 said:


> he just has to pretend he does because of the decades old religious brainwashing of Americans to support secular Israel.


what "secular", when they all refer to it as the "jewish state" 

but Trump is your best bet to resolve that real estate crisis, which is exactly what it is, and I think he could do it..

or at the very least put in a long term temporary working solution that actually works so we don't have that bi-annual disproportionate bombing anymore, which, tbh, the rocket crews are really asking for every time.

will you be voting for him, Hazzy ?

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## Desert Fox

*Anti-Trump Protesters Attack Trump Supporters, Deny Them Their Freedom of Speech:*

When was the last time Trump Supporters did this to Bernie or Hillary supporters?



























@C130 @Falcon29 @T-72M1 @XenoEnsi-14



T-72M1 said:


> lol Milo, the guy has a habit of _triggering_ SJWs, have you seen the trigglypuff event ?
> 
> and then there was the whole thing where 'Trump 2016' scribbled with chalk sent a whole bunch to the psych ward or something , these western lefty liberal kids have lost the plot completely, great to see some push-back from some sections of the youth. They need more Milo.


Yeah trigglypuff has become legendary

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## Falcon29

T-72M1 said:


> what "secular", when they all refer to it as the "jewish state"
> 
> but Trump is your best bet to resolve that real estate crisis, which is exactly what it is, and I think he could do it..
> 
> or at the very least put in a long term temporary working solution that actually works so we don't have that bi-annual disproportionate bombing anymore, which, tbh, the rocket crews are really asking for every time.
> 
> will you be voting for him, Hazzy ?



Most Jewish people are atheist, they remain Jewish by identity/ethnicity. Israel is a secular state, but it is driven by racial supremacism(one state for Jewish people). Their claims to the land are also based on religion, because simply they were able to garner popular support among some Christians. If they couldn't have, they wouldn't have made it on religious grounds. 

Real estate is fine at this moment, it's kind of hitting the peak again, a lot of people are looking to sell property currently thinking they will get top dollar. So we are approaching another housing crisis, and everybody learned from the last one, so many people will be buying property once the crisis begins again. 

I respectfully disagree with the narrative on the I/P conflict, trust me you'd understand our angle if you got more exposure to it, and I'm sure me and you can go over it in the future, and I'm looking forward to that. I don't believe Trump can land a solution, I actually don't want anything from US administration in that regard besides focusing on domestic affairs and not propping up the state of Israel. Trump worries them, because he's shaking up the make up of the government, prefers white Christians over most, and is against the Jewish conservative neocon agenda overseas. So for that, he's no doubt the best candidate out there. 

Besides other things too, he is waking people up to the anti-white agenda in the nation, that is implemented by the Jewish higher ups and liberal bases in the country, that even minorities are aware of. It all coincides with their foreign policies overseas, and the refugee crisis in ME and Europe too. He want's to shred that plan apart, and that's why much of the white segment is voting for him, they simply know but are not going to reveal anything. They will just do some talk about economic or immigration policies and not shed light on what they believe is the overall agenda. It is very interesting time in US politics, lot's is happening behind the scenes, it's more tense than some people believe, and you should keep an eye out for it.

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## jammersat

Sanders: Israel’s Right to Exist in Peace and Security Is Not Up for Debate



http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.722147



'I lived in Israel, I have family in Israel, Israel has the right to live not only in peace and security, but to know that their very existence will be protected by the United States government,' says the presidential candidate.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.722147



This article was originally published on Jewish Insider.
Israel’s right to exist in peace and security will be a general recognition by the entire Democratic convention and not be up for debate, Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders sought to assure Jewish Democrats and voters concerned about his appointees to the Democratic Party’s Policy Platform Committee.
“I am 100 percent pro-Israel in the sense of Israel’s right to exist,” Sanders said in an interview with NBC’s “Meet the Press” host Chuck Todd on Sunday. “I lived in Israel, I have family in Israel, Israel has the right to live not only in peace and security, but to know that their very existence will be protected by the United States government.”

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders, right, greets supporters after speaking at a campaign rally, Saturday, May 28, 2016, in Santa Maria, California. Mark J. Terrill, AP

Last week, Sanders appointed three Israel critics, Rep. Keith Ellison, Cornel West and James Zogby, to help draft the party’s platform ahead of the convention in Philadelphia. West, a BDS supporter, and Zogby, a pro-Palestinian activist, have both said they would seek changing the party’s policy on Israel, to a policy that shows more sympathy for the Palestinian side of the conflict.
On Meet the Press, Sanders said his view is that the United States “has got to respect the needs of the Palestinian people. They cannot be pushed aside, and “other people can say whatever they want.” When pressed, Sanders wouldn’t indicate what he wants the platform to say other than saying, “We’ve got some good people on our platform-writing committee.”
Addressing concerns within the party over a possible floor debate on the issue, Sanders promised that at the end of the day, “There will be a general recognition by the entire Democratic convention that of course Israel’s right to exist in peace and security is not in debate. I think there’s going to be broad consensus within the Democratic convention on that issue.”

The Hillary Clinton campaign insisted that the 2016 platform will reflect the party’s longstanding strong support for Israel. “The Democratic Party has always, in the platform, reflected longstanding, strong support for Israel. I don’t expect that to change,” Wendy Sherman, former Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs and a foreign policy adviser to Clinton, told Jewish Insider on Friday. “I believe that everybody is in strong support for Israel’s security and I think that Secretary Clinton's views about the importance of Israel’s security and the unbreakable bond between the U.S. and Israel is something that is held by all Democrats.”
Sign up for Jewish Insider's curated Daily Kickoff newsletter here.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.722147


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## Desert Fox

@Falcon29 @C130 @XenoEnsi-14 @T-72M1 this might interest you guys.






And now watch Trump's reaction from another angle

Trump didn't treat the guy like he would a regular protester by requesting him to be kicked out.​


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## XenoEnsi-14

jammersat said:


> 'I lived in Israel, I have family in Israel, Israel has the right to live not only in peace and security,* but to know that their very existence will be protected by the United States government*,' says the presidential candidate.
> read more


I can't find that in the United States of America Constitution. 



Desert Fox said:


> @Falcon29 @C130 @XenoEnsi-14 @T-72M1 this might interest you guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now watch Trump's reaction from another angle
> 
> Trump didn't treat the guy like he would a regular protester by requesting him to be kicked out.​


Doesn't matter who the scapegoat is going to be, we just need to be prepared and not let it happen again.


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## T-72M1

ok, so this is kind of from a blatant anti-pakistan channel, ignore that, watch the clip






I found this:





hilarious 


most people who've watched Trump on the stump will know I'm talking about this, of course:















@Azad-Kashmiri @Desert Fox @RabzonKhan .. is he Illuminati ?  

think he makes a good point, though, Pak should be prepared to be friendly if it's Trump... when everyone discusses honestly and with shared interest with others, there can be peace.

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## Desert Fox

T-72M1 said:


> ok, so this is kind of from a blatant anti-pakistan channel, ignore that, watch the clip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found this:
> View attachment 308105
> 
> hilarious
> 
> 
> most people who've watched Trump on the stump will know I'm talking about this, of course:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Azad-Kashmiri @Desert Fox @RabzonKhan .. is he Illuminati ?
> 
> think he makes a good point, though, Pak should be prepared to be friendly if it's Trump... when everyone discusses honestly and with shared interest with others, there can be peace.


Lol, no i don't think that hand sign is enough proof to prove someone's Illuminati. Regarding the video, i agree with the commentator. Most Muslims lack foresight, and its not just Muslims either but the average person anywhere lacks foresight, in particular pertaining to politics, and thus allow their emotions to dictate their decisions. Even many well read so called "experts" lack foresight. I guess foresight is something few people are born with.

Trump is a strategic thinker, after all there is a reason why he was able to build a 10 billion dollar company. I love how all of the people who were calling him an idiot, moron, redneck, hill billy, and how he would never make it past the first couple of debates and dropout out early, etc... are now the ones who look like idiots (even many on this forum ). The joke is on them.

Hillary has a lot of baggage. That's something Trump has already started exploiting.


BTW, since starting his campaign last August Trump has *saved 2 billion dollars in advertisement expenses* by all of the free media coverage he received for his controversial statements and yet beat all of his Republican opponents  This is how you know Trump will save American economy so much money by making our adversaries pay as well as making great trade deals that will generate more money as well:



​

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## T-72M1

[QUOTE="Desert Fox, post: 8347576, member: 23101]"...*saved 2 billion dollars in advertisement expenses* by all of the free media coverage...[/QUOTE]
yup, they call it "earned" media. The man's masterful at directing the news cycle, and as his book "the art of the deal" will tell you.. 'any publicity is better than no publicity'

Hillary has only now started doing phone ins to news shows, but you can easily tell there's an off-camera army of minions whispering in her ear what to say etc, she's so fake, almost as fake as he is (or appears to be) genuine.

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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/738425229584666624


T-72M1 said:


> ok, so this is kind of from a blatant anti-pakistan channel, ignore that, watch the clip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found this:
> View attachment 308105
> 
> hilarious
> 
> 
> most people who've watched Trump on the stump will know I'm talking about this, of course:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Azad-Kashmiri @Desert Fox @RabzonKhan .. is he Illuminati ?
> 
> think he makes a good point, though, Pak should be prepared to be friendly if it's Trump... when everyone discusses honestly and with shared interest with others, there can be peace.


I don’t take people like Ahmed Qureshi seriously, he is a third rate conspiracy theorist.



C130 said:


> if Trump focuses on Ohio,Pennsylvania, and Florida and wins those three states he'll beat Hillary easily.


The fact is, if Trump wins all the red states and Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida, he will still lose, sorry to say but looks like your Electoral College math is quite weak.


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## RabzonKhan

C130 said:


> I can't speak for Trump but for what I have heard.
> 
> 
> Foreign Policy- he's against getting us involved in stupid wars and destabilizing the Middle East (was against the Iraq war, Libya, and Syria)


You see the problem is that Trump is a sociopathic liar, he lies like hell, the fact is, he supports ground troops in Iraq and Syria to fight ISIS, and once *he supported Iraq and Libya wars.*

Please watch the videos and see Donny the flip-flop goofing:





“We really have no choice, we have to knock out ISIS,” Trump said. “I would listen to the generals, but I’m hearing numbers of 20,000-30,000.”


Trump typically rails against American military involvement around the world…….Damn liar!

Libya War:






*This is what Trump said in 2016:*


At Thursday’s CNN debate Republican frontrunner Donald Trump claimed he did not support the 2011 U.S. intervention in Libya and “never discussed the subject”

“We would be so much better off if Gaddafi were in charge right now. If these politicians went to the beach and didn’t do a thing and we had Saddam Hussein and we had Gaddafi in charge, instead of having terrorism all over the place, we’d be—at least they killed terrorists, all right?”

*And this is what he said in 2011:*

“I can’t believe what our country is doing. Gadhafi in Libya is killing thousands of people. Nobody knows how bad it is. And we’re sitting around. We have soldiers all over the Middle East, and we’re not bringing them in to stop this horrible carnage — and that’s what it is, it’s a carnage. You talk about all of the things that have happened in history. This could be one of the worst,” Trump said on his video blog.

He is an embarrassment and a disgrace!

*Iraq War:*

Donald Trump often touts that he was against the war in Iraq, but in 2002 he expressed support for an invasion.


Trump, who was being interviewed by Howard Stern, said that “yeah, I guess so” when asked if he was for invading the country. (*link*)

*“Are you for invading Iraq?” Stern asked.

“Yeah, I guess so,” Trump responded.* “I wish the first time it was done correctly.”


And in another interview to Fox News Neil Cavuto, note, he does not mention his opposition to the war, all he talks about is, “tremendous success from military point of view” and how the Wall Street is going to benefit. One can clearly see he was very excited about the war and our success.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-defends-2003-interview-calling-iraq-invasion-a-success/

One day after the United States' 2003 invasion of Iraq, businessman Donald Trump joined Neil Cavuto for a phone interview to give an opinion on how the military action in the Middle East would impact the financial sector at home. (*Link*)

Trump told Cavuto in that March 21, 2003, chat: "I think Wall Street's waiting to see what happens, but even before the fact they're obviously taking it a little bit for granted. *It looks like a tremendous success from a military standpoint,* and I think this is really nothing compared to what you're gonna see after the war is over."

Trump went on to predict that the war would go on to benefit the financial markets.

*"I think Wall Street's just gonna go up like a rocket, even beyond,* and it's gonna continue and, you know, *we have a strong and powerful country, and let's hope it all works out,"* he added.

I wonder, how can you people support such a flip-flop liar?



> Will build a wall to keep out illegal Mexicans and other Latinos, most of whom are murderers and drug traffickers.


Do you know how the illegal immigrants go to Australia, and how the North Africans go to Europe, through boats, and that’s why I think this whole wall thing is just a ridiculous idea, you build a wall and they start coming through boats, then what?

As I have said previously on this thread, the best way to tackle the illegal immigration problem is to heavily fine the businesses that hire them, and repeat offenders should also face jail time. 




> Nukes- Japan will never build or use nuclear weapons. my personal opinion is South Korea should have nukes if North Korea can have them. If China doesn't like that they should put pressure on North Korea to abandon it's own nuclear program.
> 
> so If SK wants them Trump won't stop them.


We cannot just pick and choose (Iran cannot have it, but South Korea can), and please try to understand nuclear weapons are not a joke, the last thing the world need is a nuclear war.

Please read and understand the dangers of nuclear war:

http://www.popsci.com/article/science/computer-models-show-what-exactly-would-happen-earth-after-nuclear-war
COMPUTER MODELS SHOW WHAT EXACTLY WOULD HAPPEN TO EARTH AFTER A NUCLEAR WAR between Pakistan and India.




> Trade wars- they are already happening. we are getting ripped off. China devalues it's currency and dumps it's cheap products into our country. we have a $300+ billion trade deficient with China that needs to be fixed.


There are sensible ways to tackle the issue, but not through trade embargoes and trade wars, besides, Trump is a hypocrite his own merchandise are made in China.

But here’s an interesting fact, our trade deficit with China is improving, since the Chinese are getting richer they are able to import more from us. (*Link*)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/738420394185592832



> NAFTA needs to go TPP won't happen under Trump


We are talking about trillion of dollar worth of trade and millions of American jobs, according to the US Chamber of Commerce, the increase trade brought about by the NAFTA agreement has created 5 million jobs in America alone. Of course yes, there are pros and cons and the best way is to smartly tackle the cons so it could benefit us.




> Waterboarding- I don't have a problem with that
> 
> Kill the families of terrorists- this is the only way to truly wipe out terrorists like IS. they take multiple wives and have dozens of kids who then are indoctrinated to follow in their footsteps. if you kill the father the children will just continue his legacy and make more terrorist children themselves. it's like a Hydra. either we don't fight and kill terrorists or we wipe them and their lineage out.


Do you know deliberately killing noncombatant (children, women and old people) is a war crime.

Trump’s thinking is quite similar to Nazis “final solution of the Jewish question” (and then you people think he is not racist).

During the summer of 1941, in breach of Hitler’s agreement with Joseph Stalin, Germany invaded the*Soviet Union*. Following the German army into battle were the*Einsatzgruppen*. Local people supported these killing squads, *one of the main tasks of which was to kill all Jewish men, women and children in the areas that were being conquered.* By December 1941, over 500,000 Soviet Jews had been murdered.

However, for the Nazis leadership, conventional killing methods were insufficient and inefficient.

On 20 January 1942, 15 leading officials of the Nazi state met at a villa in Wannsee, a suburb of Berlin, to discuss the ’Final solution of the Jewish Question’.

*The ’Final solution’ was a code name for the murder of all the Jews of Europe. *The people present at the conference were to discuss how to make mass murder happen in an organised and methodical way.


And here is the testimony of Joint Chief of Chairman Gen. Joseph Dunford, without mentioning Trump, this is what he had to say: (*Link*)

Under questioning by Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican, Dunford told the Senate Armed Services Committee that the use of extreme interrogation techniques would go against "American values" and adversely impact on troop morale.


*Dunford responded that "I've said publicly before, our men and women -- we ought to be proud of it -- when they go to war they go with the values of our nation. And those kind of activities you've described are inconsistent with the values of our nation* and, quite frankly, I think would have an adverse effect."

Dunford said one of those adverse effects "would be on the morale of the force, *and what you're suggesting are things that actually aren't legal for them to do anyway" under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the law of armed conflict and the Geneva Conventions.*





> Trump isn't racist and neither is his supporters.
> 
> if you look at videos of anti-trump protesters you'll see who is truly racist and intolerant ones are in this country.


You like it or not, but the fact is, most of Trump supporters are more racist than even the average Republican:

Here are some Polls:

1. A *Pew Research Center national poll released Thursday *found that 59 percent of registered voters nationwide think that an increasing number of people from different races, ethnic groups and nationalities makes the United States a better place to live; *only 8 percent say this makes America worse. But among Trump backers, 39 percent say diversity improves America, while 42 percent say it makes no difference and 17 percent say it actually makes America worse. (Link)
*
2. *White independents and Republicans who think their identity as whites is extremely important are more than 30 points more likely to support Trump* than those who think their racial identity is not important.

“Republican voters who support either candidate and strongly agree that* “immigrants threaten American customs and values,” 60.1 percent say they prefer Trump *and 15.6 percent say they prefer Cruz.” (*Link*)

3. The P.P.P. poll asked voters if they thought whites were a superior race. Most Republican primary voters in South Carolina — *78 percent — disagreed with this idea* (10 percent agreed and 11 percent weren’t sure). *But among Mr. Trump’s supporters, only 69 percent disagreed. *Mr. Carson’s voters were the most opposed to the notion (99 percent), followed by Mr. Kasich and Mr. Cruz’s supporters at 92 and 89 percent. Mr. Rubio’s backers were close to the average level of disagreement (76 percent).

*According to P.P.P., 70 percent of Mr. Trump’s voters in South Carolina wish the Confederate battle flag were still flying on their statehouse grounds.* (It was removed last summer less than a month after a mass shooting at a black church in Charleston.) *The polling firm says that 38 percent of them wish the South had won the Civil War.* Only a quarter of Mr. Rubio’s supporters share that wish, and even fewer of Mr. Kasich’s and Mr. Carson’s do. (*Link*)

4. A Washington Post/ABC News poll conducted earlier this month asked: “Which of these do you think is a bigger problem in this country — blacks and Hispanics losing out because of preferences for whites, or whites losing out because of preferences for blacks and Hispanics?”

*More than half of Trump supporters, 54 percent, thought white people losing out was a bigger problem.* *The share of Trump's supporters who believed whites were losing out was 12 points higher* than the share of all Republicanvoters surveyed in the poll who believe this. (*Link)*

Cheers!


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## RabzonKhan

Super, hard-hitting and very Presidential!

Now, as usual, Trump will throw a childish temper tantrum. 







*Hillary Clinton Just Kicked Trump in the Shins*

*And showed that she’s certainly tough enough for the long haul. *

By Fred Kaplan JUNE 2 2016

For those who thought Hillary Clinton needed proxies or a running mate to attack Donald Trump with the savagery required of a long-slog campaign, her Thursday speech in San Diego should be a mind-changer.

The all-but-inevitable Democratic nominee showed that she’s fit to be her own attack dog, mauling her ill-matched Republican foe to shreds without getting muddy in the process.

Not two minutes into the speech, she calmly and coolly delivered this broadside:

*Donald Trump’s ideas aren’t just different; they are dangerously incoherent. They’re not even really ideas, just a series of bizarre rants, personal feuds, and outright lies. He is not just unprepared, he is temperamentally unfit to hold an office that requires knowledge, stability, and immense responsibility. This is not someone who should ever have the nuclear codes, because it’s not hard to imagine Donald Trump leading us into a war just because someone got under his very thin skin.

The audience gasped at hearing “bizarre,” tittered at “personal feuds,” and burst into laughter and applause at “very thin skin.” They hadn’t heard any presidential candidate talk like this—they certainly hadn’t heard Clinton talk like this. It was a full takedown of Trump, but in an anti-Trump manner, spoken not in vague adolescent epithets (“stupid,” “idiotic,” “crooked,” “goofy”), but in an itemized checklist of his utter, almost laughable unsuitability for the job.*

*“I will leave it to the psychiatrists,” she said later, to explain Trump’s “bizarre fascination with dictators and strongmen who have no love for America,”* not least Vladimir Putin, for whom Trump shows not the slightest understanding and who, because of that, she reminded Trump—“will eat your lunch.”

Reciting her own experience as first lady, senator, and secretary of state (as she sometimes does with a bit too much self-indulgence, but it was completely fitting here), she said, “Every president makes hard choices every day with imperfect information and conflicting imperatives. … Making the right call takes a cool head and respect for the facts. … It also takes humility, knowing you don’t know everything, because if you’re convinced you’re always right, you’ll never ask the hard questions.” Recalling President Obama’s hard choices the night of the Osama Bin Laden raid, she said, elevating her voice a bit, “Imagine Donald Trump sitting in the Situation Room, making life-or-death decisions for the United States”—prompting the audience, by this time secure in her palm, to laugh and howl, “No-o-o-o-o-oo” in protest.

*She flung forth the entire litany of his shortcomings: his proposals to default on the national debt (treating the economy “like one of his casinos”), his pronouncement that he knows more about ISIS than the generals, his advocacy of torture and of murdering the relatives of suspected terrorists, his demonization of Muslims (“playing right into the hands of ISIS”), his dismissiveness toward America’s allies and their importance to U.S. security, his opposition to the Iran nuclear deal (“Donald Trump doesn’t know the first thing about Iran or its nuclear program—ask him; it will become very clear, very quickly”), his persistent mockery and nastiness (“He has no sense of what it takes to deal with multiple countries with competing interests and reaching a solution that everyone can get behind”), his paucity of ideas about how to solve the world’s real problems (“He doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about”)*

On each point, she contrasted his flimsy prejudices not only with her own experience and thought-out views but also with the long-standing, bipartisan traditions of American diplomacy.

*Then she kicked Trump in the shins. Pointing to his claims that “the world is laughing at us,” she scoffed, “He’s been saying this for decades. He bought full-page ads in newspapers across America back in 1987, when Ronald Reagan was president, saying America lacked a backbone and the world was laughing at us. He was wrong then, and he’s wrong now.* And you’ve got to wonder why somebody who has so little confidence in America—and has felt that way for at least 30 years—wants to be our president.”

*This election suddenly got a little bit fun*.


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## Desert Fox

*Racist Mexicans attack Trump Supporters At Trump Rally with Knives and Rocks, Prove Trumps Point*

They hate America so much that they carry Mexican flags instead of American flags. Can't wait till they get deported back to their beloved Mexico.








Watch how the Police just stand there and do nothing. Why? *Because the Pro-Hillary mayor of the city told them to stand down.*






@XenoEnsi-14 @libertad @C130 @Falcon29 @Hamartia Antidote @T-72M1​
@vostok @flamer84 @Vauban

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## Desert Fox

*Violent Protesters Assault Trump Supporters With Eggs, Bottles, Punches After Rally*






_A Trump supporter who was attacked with a sharp object by violent protesters._​SAN JOSE, Calif. — Donald Trump supporters were mobbed and assaulted by protesters on Thursday night after the candidate's campaign rally in California.

The violence broke out after the event in San Jose wrapped up just before 8 p.m. local time (11 p.m. ET). *Some Trump supporters were punched. One woman wearing a "Trump" jersey was cornered, spat on, and pelted with eggs and water bottles. *

Police held back at first but eventually moved in. San Jose Police Sgt. Enrique Garcia told NBC News that several protesters were arrested and one officer was assaulted in the melee.

_The videos below contains language some may find offensive._

Watch: The moment a Trump supporter, surrounded by protesters, is egged in the face, hit by other food. pic.twitter.com/qYFdwJWvrS

— Jacob Rascon (@Jacobnbc) June 3, 2016
Lan Hoang said anti-Trump protesters stole his "Make America Great Again" hat off of his head and set it on fire as he was leaving the rally.

*The 24-year-old said he saw "a lot" of Trump supporters get attacked on the walk back to his car after the rally. *

*Protesters also smashed cars in a nearby parking structure and surrounded and taunted an elderly couple, according to Steve Tong. *

"It was unbelievable," he told NBC Bay Area. "I've never seen anything like that in America before,"

*Hillary Clinton's campaign chair John Podesta condemned the violence, saying that "violence against supporters of any candidate has no place in this election." *

Police rush protesters, plainclothes officer tackles one, who is then surrounded and detained. pic.twitter.com/Zwo05DZMLQ

— Jacob Rascon (@Jacobnbc) June 3, 2016

It wasn't the first Trump rally in California to turn violent. About 20 protesters were arrested after an April speech by Trump in Costa Mesa south of Los Angeles, when members of the crowd damaged five police vehicles.

Inside the San Jose Convention Center, Donald Trump was in full attack mode Thursday night, repeating his claim that Hillary Clinton's use of a personal email server was illegal.

Trump's assault on Clinton came just hours after the Democratic candidate gave a national security speech painting the GOP nominee as reckless and dangerous. Trump called Clinton's speech a "phony hit job" and retaliated by criticizing the former Secretary of State for her email scandal, foreign policy legacy, and her gun control policy proposals.
​


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## RabzonKhan

What happened in San Jose was wrong and un-American, but let’s not forget, Trump also encourages violence at his rallies:


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## Desert Fox

*Ugly, bloody scenes in San Jose as protesters attack Trump supporters outside rally*​By Sean Sullivan and Michael E. Miller June 3 at 3:38 AM

Outside Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump's rally in San Jose, Calif., on June 2, *his supporters were chased down, punches were thrown and "Make America Great Again" hats were set alight.* (Jenny Starrs/The Washington Post)

SAN JOSE, Calif. —Protests outside a Donald Trump rally in downtown San Jose spun out of control Thursday night when some demonstrators attacked the candidate’s supporters.

*Protesters jumped on cars, pelted Trump supporters with eggs and water balloons, snatched signs and stole “Make America Great” hats off supporters’ heads before burning the hats and snapping selfies with the charred remains.*

*Several people were caught on camera punching Trump supporters.* At least one attacker was arrested, according to CNN, although police did not release much information.

“The San Jose Police Department made a few arrests tonight after the Donald Trump Rally,” police said in a statement. “As of this time, we do not have specific information on the arrests made. There has been no significant property damage reported. *One officer was assaulted.”*

In one video circulating widely on social media, two protesters tried to protect a Trump supporter as other protesters attacked him and called him names.

Another video captured a female Trump supporter taunting protesters before being surrounded and struck in the face with an egg and water balloons.

Police eventually cleared the protest, which they called an “unlawful assembly.”



" type="text">
*In photos, disruptions and protests during the Trump campaign*




View Photos


Before the event, the San Jose Police Department issued a press release saying it “recognizes and respects everyone’s right to express their First Amendment [rights], and we will do everything possible to ensure the event is safe for all attendees and surrounding neighborhoods.”


*Trump supporters were surrounded and, in several cases, attacked as they left the rally.*

*In one incident captured on camera, a Trump supporter was struck hard over the side of the head as he was walking away from a group of protesters. The attack left him with blood streaming down his head and onto his shirt.*






“I was walking out with a Trump sign and he grabbed my Trump sign, saying I was like a racist and stuff,” the man told bystanders and local media. “Then he followed me, like, spit on me.”

The Trump supporter said all he had done was chant the candidate’s name before trying to walk away.

*Another Trump supporter was also bloodied after being attacked,* his shirt torn almost completely off his body. Videos circulating on social media showed swirling, furious fights spilling from street corner to street corner, often with no police in sight.

Marcus DiPaola, a freelance photographer following the Trump campaign, posted video of someone getting punched violently in the face.

I called 911 but no one answered. Donald trump protest in San Jose, CA pic.twitter.com/LwaWyeYZfq

— Marcus DiPaola (@marcusdipaola) June 3, 2016

Reached by phone Thursday night, DiPaola said the sucker punch happened at 8:08 p.m. just outside the convention center where the Trump rally was held.

“It wasn’t completely unprovoked,” he said. “The guy with the flag was waving it in front of the victim’s face. The victim kind of pushed the flag out of the way and then walked quickly away. You saw what happened next.”

DiPaola said he called 911 but was put on hold and so hung up. He said he told one police officer about the beating but was told SJPD “didn’t have the manpower” to intervene.

“Morons,” he said. “How do you not staff 911 for an event of this size?”

DiPaola wasn’t the only journalist to condemn the cops’ handling of the protest.

Punches thrown outside Trump rally between supporter and protesters. Just interviewed a guy bleeding. SJP did not break line to assist

— Melanie Woodrow (@MelanieWoodrow) June 3, 2016

BREAKING: The police in San Jose have appeared to lost control. Trump supporters being terrorized and beaten up by mobs of protestors.

— Tom Llamas (@TomLlamasABC) June 3, 2016


According to the San Jose Mercury News, many of the protesters were Latinos from East San Jose opposed to what they saw as racism from the GOP candidate.





_Protesters attack a man they mistakenly identified as a supporter of Donald Trump outside a Trump campaign rally on Thursday in San Jose, Calif. (Noah Berger/AP) _

“We’re here to support Latinos, black people; we’re not rapists,” Cindy Zurita, a 23-year-old student, told the Mercury News as she held a sign reading: “Mr Hate leave my state.”

ABC reporter Tom Llamas, however, said that some of the protesters were “throwing up gang signs.”

“There were [people] who came to demonstrate & some who just wanted to brawl,” he tweeted, calling it “the most violent demonstrations we’ve seen.”
*

At times, protesters began to fight among themselves. In one instance, two female protesters pleaded for nonviolence while trying to protect a Trump supporter from an angry crowd. Despite their efforts, someone snatched the Trump supporter’s hat.*

Trump supporter just got caught in the middle. Some protesters attacking, others shouting for no violence pic.twitter.com/m0dpwFKYcg

— Nicky Woolf (@NickyWoolf) June 3, 2016

A handful of the bright red “Make America Great Again” hats were set on fire by protesters, who then snapped photos of the scene or hung the charred hats from street signs.

Some protesters said they were disappointed to see violence undermine their message.

“It’s sad to see San Jose representing like this,” student Martha Garcia told the Guardian. “Trump is the one igniting the hate. You can’t fight fire with fire.”

Protesters set a Make America Great Again hat on fire pic.twitter.com/8Bss1GBfTH

— Sara Murray (@SaraMurray) June 3, 2016

A burned #Trump hat rests on a street sign. pic.twitter.com/rQspeOZKDu

— Katrina Cameron (@KatCameron91) June 3, 2016

*Perhaps the most jarring scene was that of a young female Trump supporter being attacked by a crowd of protesters.


In multiple videos of the incident, the woman initially appeared to be happily posing in her Trump football jersey in front of the mostly male protesters, some of whom can be heard whistling and shouting at her.


Then an anonymous arm rises over the crowd and tosses an egg at the woman, striking her in the head and eliciting howls and laughter from the crowd.


A second later, a red water balloon bursts against the woman’s arm.*

At first, the woman tries to shrug off the attacks, smiling while appearing to reach out toward the Mexican flags that some protesters are waving.
*

Objects keep crashing into the convention center windows behind her, however, and protesters can be heard screaming expletives at her.*

Watch: The moment a Trump supporter, surrounded by protesters, is egged in the face, hit by other food. pic.twitter.com/qYFdwJWvrS

— Jacob Rascon (@Jacobnbc) June 3, 2016

Suddenly, another projectile strikes her hard in the face. Eventually, someone comes to help her and, after she indicates that she is having trouble seeing, she is ushered back inside the convention center.

Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders’s campaigns both condemned the violence in San Jose. John Podesta, chairman of Hillary Clinton for America, tweeted that “violence against supporters of any candidate has no place in this election.”

Mike Casca, Sanders’s rapid response director, tweeted that “we cannot stop Trump’s violent rhetoric with violence — only peaceful protest in a voting booth can do that.”

Blame for the attacks circulated almost as rapidly as images of the violence, with Trump supporters accusing Democrats and members of the media of having a double standard.

Things inside the rally were more subdued — if only slightly.

Morning Mix newsletter

Stories that will be the talk of the morning.



Politico reported that one of its journalists was removed from the rally for reporting at the event without the campaign’s permission.

Trump, meanwhile, was interrupted a handful of times by protesters.

Responding to Clinton’s blistering attack on him earlier in the day, Trump attacked her over her email controversy, going so far as to say “Hillary Clinton has to go to jail.”

“She does not look presidential — that I can tell you,” he said, according to Bloomberg. “This is not a president. Four more years of this stuff and we’re not going to have a country left.”



_Miller reported from Washington._


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## Assadynasty

People who wave Mexican flags in the US are illegals and are not protected by American police.

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## Desert Fox

*Fascist Anti-Trump Protesters Smash Cars, Attack Elderly Couple*


























*Trump Was Right*

*



*​
@Vauban @vostok @Falcon29 @C130 @XenoEnsi-14

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## KAL-EL

Desert Fox said:


> *Fascist Anti-Trump Protesters Smash Cars, Attack Elderly Couple*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 308640
> 
> 
> View attachment 308641
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump Was Right*
> 
> *
> View attachment 308647
> *​
> @Vauban @vostok @Falcon29 @C130 @XenoEnsi-14




Those thugs are low life scum as far as I'm concerned

What those intolerant animals don't seem to realize (or maybe don't care) is that what they're doing plays right into Donald Trump's hands.

The best way to protest Donald Trump is by voting against him at the ballet box.

Just for the record, I'm not a Trump supporter, but not a hater either. I'm still unsure as to who I'm going to support.

Regardless of their political ideology, people shouldn't have to worry they might be physically assaulted for going to a rally to hear a candidate speak.

Progressives claim to be super tolerant of others beliefs and support free speech. but the reality is, they will only be tolerant of someone who agrees with them.

Left wing fascism is starting to gain a real foothold in the United States.

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## Assadynasty

KAL-EL said:


> What those intolerant animals don't seem to realize (or maybe don't care) is that what they're doing plays right into Donald Trump's hands.
> 
> The best way to protest Donald Trump is by voting against him at the ballet box.




The protestors are Mexican illegals. They cannot vote.


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## boomslang

The anarchists need their heads cracked.


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## AndrewJin

I like Trump and a Trumpish land in the making!
Rumour in Chinese websites that he is an undercover agent of CPC.
lol


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## KAL-EL

Assadynasty said:


> The protestors are Mexican illegals. They cannot vote.



You don't know for a fact that all of them were illegals. No doubt some were for sure, but some were also legal citizens who just happen to be of Mexican heritage upset by Trump.

Some of the violence being perpetrated was also from white trash anarchists.

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## RabzonKhan

Bad, bad, bad news for Trump! I’m lovin’ it 

Keep in mind fellows she is still fighting her fellow Democrat rival, Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primaries, I’m quite sure after the primaries are over (technically speaking, they are already over) and she is nominated as Democratic candidate for president, she will increase her lead over Trump, since majority of Bernie’s supporters will ultimately support her.


*Clinton opens up double-digit lead over Trump nationwide: Reuters/Ipsos poll

NEW YORK| BY CHRIS KAHN 6/3/2016

*
Democratic presidential contender Hillary Clinton has opened up a double-digit lead over Republican rival Donald Trump, regaining ground after the New York billionaire briefly tied her last month, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released on Friday.

The shift in support comes as Clinton steps up her attacks on the real estate mogul's policy positions, and as Trump fends off criticisms of his eponymous university and the pace at which he doled out money that he raised for U.S. veterans.

*Some 46 percent of likely voters said they supported Clinton, while 35 percent said they supported Trump,* and another 19 percent said they would not support either, according to the survey of 1,421 people conducted between May 30 and June 3.

Trump had briefly tied Clinton in support among likely U.S. voters in mid-May, raising expectations for a tight race between the two likely contenders in November's presidential election. *Read more*











What an irony, this man wants to become the leader of United States, when he cannot even lead his own party with dignity, total failure.


*After Backing Him, McConnell, Ryan Slap Trump for Remarks About Latino Judge, Governor*


*The top Republicans on Capitol Hill still support their presumptive nominee, despite his potential “Goldwater effect” between the GOP and Latinos.*

*By Gabrielle Levy | Political Reporter June 3, 2016*

Peak party unity around Donald Trump came and went quickly for the Republicans this week.

Less than 24 hours after Trump secured the endorsement of House Speaker Paul Ryan, the speaker on Thursday disavowed the presumptive GOP nominee's latest controversial comments about a federal judge overseeing a fraud lawsuit against Trump University.

In an interview on Wisconsin radio Friday, Ryan slammed Trump for attacking U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel, whom Trump believes is Mexican and biased against him.

"Look, the comment about the judge the other day just was out of left field for my mind," Ryan told WISN radio host Vicki McKenna. "It's reasoning I don't relate to. I completely disagree with the thinking behind that."

Then, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell took a swipe at Trump for criticizing New Mexico Gov. Susana Martinez, a fellow Republican and rising political star. McConnell said Trump's comments about Martinez, the nation's only Latina governor, was "a big mistake" that could permanently wreck the GOP's ability to draw the Latino vote.


In a Wall Street Journal interview, Trump repeated his criticism of Curiel, after claiming the judge has been "very unfair" because he was of "Mexican heritage" and doesn't like Trump's zero-tolerance stance on illegal immigration. The billionaire businessman has made building a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border a centerpiece of his campaign.
*Read more*


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## Desert Fox

KAL-EL said:


> Those thugs are low life scum as far as I'm concerned
> 
> What those intolerant animals don't seem to realize (or maybe don't care) is that what they're doing plays right into Donald Trump's hands.
> 
> The best way to protest Donald Trump is by voting against him at the ballet box.
> 
> Just for the record, I'm not a Trump supporter, but not a hater either. I'm still unsure as to who I'm going to support.
> 
> Regardless of their political ideology, people shouldn't have to worry they might be physically assaulted for going to a rally to hear a candidate speak.
> 
> Progressives claim to be super tolerant of others beliefs and support free speech. but the reality is, they will only be tolerant of someone who agrees with them.
> 
> Left wing fascism is starting to gain a real foothold in the United States.


If these are the people who oppose Trump, *and they have proven themselves to be domestic terrorists who cannot tolerate opposing views and others freedom of speech & right to assemble,* therefore Donald Trump has my vote if that is what it will take to save this country from these terrorists.







@Falcon29 @C130 @XenoEnsi-14 @Hamartia Antidote @T-72M1​

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## Hamartia Antidote

Desert Fox said:


> If these are the people who oppose Trump, and they have proven themselves to be terrorists who cannot tolerate opposing views and others freedom of speech, therefore Donald Trump has my vote if that is what it will take to save this country from these terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Falcon29 @C130 @XenoEnsi-14 @Hamartia Antidote @T-72M1​



I stay away from political discussions. However I could just parrot the excuses others give when demonstrations happen in their country: "This is obviously the work of foreign NGO's..."


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## Desert Fox

*Pro-Hillary Mayor of San Jose Ordered Police To Stand Down As Trump Supporters Were Beaten By "Protesters"*
​ June 3, 2016 Connor Balough  0 Comment


*The mayor of San Jose, a Clinton supporter and Mexican,* Sam Liccardo, has apparently allowed the VIOLENT Trump protests to occur:

Some banged on the cars of Trump supporters as they left the rally and chased after those on foot to frighten them.

Police were keeping their distance from the crowd as the scuffles played out but kept them from getting any closer to the convention center.

“Our police officers have done an extremely courageous and professional job so far,” San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo told the Associated Press by phone. “We’re all still holding our breath to see the outcome of this dangerous and explosive situation.”

The mayor, a Democrat and Hillary Clinton supporter, criticized Trump for coming to cities and igniting problems that local police departments have to deal with.

“At some point Donald Trump needs to take responsibility for the irresponsible behavior of his campaign,” Liccardo said.

The presumptive GOP nominee spoke for about 50 minutes at the rally, sniping at Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton and calling her speech on foreign policy earlier in the day “pathetic” and “sad to watch.”

Protesters before the speech included Adam Rivas, a 22-year-old community college student born and raised in San Jose who was holding a spray-painted sign that read “Dump Trump.”

Rivas said he was particularly disturbed by Trump’s remarks about Mexicans.


​


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## Desert Fox

*Hillary Clinton Attends Latino Supremacist Organization 'La Raza' ('The Race') Conference*




​*Could you imagine Donald Trump attending a KKK conference? It would be all over the news "Trump is racist, fascist, neo nazi, White supremacist!!!". *


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## libertad

boomslang said:


> The anarchists need their heads cracked.



They are communists, not anarchists. True Anarchists are against all government. They are hard core libetarians.

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## RabzonKhan

*





Clinton sweeps in Virgin Islands, moves closer to nomination
*
AP June 4, 2016

WASHINGTON (AP) — Hillary Clinton scored a sweeping win in the U.S. Virgin Islands on Saturday, *picking up all seven pledged delegates at stake* as she inched tantalizingly close to the Democratic nomination.

*She is now just 60 delegates short of the 2,383 needed to advance to the November general election.*

The party said Clinton won 84.2 percent of the vote, while Bernie Sanders earned 12.2 percent. Under Democratic National Committee rules, a candidate must win at least 15 percent of the vote to be eligible to receive delegates. *Read more*

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## Emperor_of_Mankind

KAL-EL said:


> Those thugs are low life scum as far as I'm concerned
> 
> What those intolerant animals don't seem to realize (or maybe don't care) is that what they're doing plays right into Donald Trump's hands.
> 
> The best way to protest Donald Trump is by voting against him at the ballet box.
> 
> Just for the record, I'm not a Trump supporter, but not a hater either. I'm still unsure as to who I'm going to support.
> 
> Regardless of their political ideology, people shouldn't have to worry they might be physically assaulted for going to a rally to hear a candidate speak.
> 
> Progressives claim to be super tolerant of others beliefs and support free speech. but the reality is, they will only be tolerant of someone who agrees with them.
> 
> Left wing fascism is starting to gain a real foothold in the United States.



Bernie supporters are often the ones responsible for the violence. They hate trump with a passion. At every trump rally i watch on youtube or TV there is always a loser flying a mexican flag. They don't understand there is a 1st amendment.


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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/739571492028092416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/739634455145553924
Puerto Rico, 67 delegates total

Hillary won 43

Bernie won 20

after her Puerto Rico victory, Hillary only needs 23 more delegates to win the Democratic presidential nomination.


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## CorporateAffairs

Hillary will be a cake walk for Trump.
Sanders is the real challenger for Trump from Dem.


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## RabzonKhan

CorporateAffairs said:


> Hillary will be a cake walk for Trump.
> Sanders is the real challenger for Trump from Dem.


So far majority of the polls show the other way around, it’s Hillary beating him.

Bernie Sanders socialist agenda cannot win the general elections, he is just a one issue (class warfare, rich are bad, bad, bad) candidate, so far he is enjoying a honeymoon, since the Republicans are not attacking him, because they believe he is doing their bidding and on the other hand, Hillary Clinton’s campaign has been soft on him because they do not want to annoy his left-wing supporters.



Desert Fox said:


> *Hillary Clinton Attends Latino Supremacist Organization 'La Raza' ('The Race') Conference*
> View attachment 308953
> 
> ​*Could you imagine Donald Trump attending a KKK conference? It would be all over the news "Trump is racist, fascist, neo nazi, White supremacist!!!". *


National Council of La Raza is the largest Latino advocacy group, mostly the racist and some Republicans are opposed to the group, because the groups pro-immigration policies. The fact is, many top Republicans, including former president, George H.W Bush have attended their conferences.


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## RabzonKhan

Racist!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/739790041497501696


*Clinton questions meaning of Trump's 'German heritage'*

*Hillary Clinton on Friday laced into Donald Trump for his repeated racially based attacks on the judge overseeing Trump University lawsuits*, questioning whether people should read more into Trump's German lineage.

*"It makes no sense to me," Clinton said in an interview with an ABC affiliate in Los Angeles. "The judge was born in Indiana. Yes, he's of Mexican heritage. Donald Trump is apparently of German heritage. What does that mean? We are all Americans."*

Trump for weeks has gone on tirades against U.S. District Court Judge Gonzalo Curiel, who is presiding over two class-action lawsuits against Trump's now-defunct real estate seminar enterprise that critics claim was a sprawling scam. Trump has recently questioned whether Curiel has an "inherent conflict of interest" because his Mexican heritage causes him to balk at Trump's proposal to build a massive wall along the U.S.-Mexico border.

*"He would try to disqualify any woman who is a judge because he has said terrible things about women, any Muslim-American who's a judge anywhere," Clinton said. "If we start disqualifying people because of who their parents and grandparents might be and where they came from, that would be running counter to everything we believe in."*


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> National Council of La Raza


Ku Klux Klan is the largest White advocacy group, mostly the racist and some Democrats are opposed to the group, because the groups pro-White policies. The fact is, many top Democrats, including former president Harry S. Truman have attended their conferences.


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## boomslang

libertad said:


> They are communists, not anarchists. True Anarchists are against all government. They are hard core libetarians.



I've seen a few 'A's in the crowd. Regardless, they need their heads cracked.


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## T-72M1




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## CorporateAffairs

RabzonKhan said:


> So far majority of the polls show the other way around, it’s Hillary beating him.


We call them "Presstitues" in India. US media houses are no different.
Need to wait till November for the Prez, these polls are BS.

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## Dalit

Desert Fox said:


> If these are the people who oppose Trump, *and they have proven themselves to be domestic terrorists who cannot tolerate opposing views and others freedom of speech & right to assemble,* therefore Donald Trump has my vote if that is what it will take to save this country from these terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Falcon29 @C130 @XenoEnsi-14 @Hamartia Antidote @T-72M1​



We don't expect differently from Indians. The whole world is united against racist Trump, but Indians pray for his win.

Cussing Muslims, women, immigrants, Mexicans, disabled people is what people like you term as freedom of speech.

America is about to become a miserable craphole with Trump as its leader.


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## Dalit

RabzonKhan said:


> Racist!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/739790041497501696
> 
> 
> *Clinton questions meaning of Trump's 'German heritage'*
> 
> *Hillary Clinton on Friday laced into Donald Trump for his repeated racially based attacks on the judge overseeing Trump University lawsuits*, questioning whether people should read more into Trump's German lineage.
> 
> *"It makes no sense to me," Clinton said in an interview with an ABC affiliate in Los Angeles. "The judge was born in Indiana. Yes, he's of Mexican heritage. Donald Trump is apparently of German heritage. What does that mean? We are all Americans."*
> 
> Trump for weeks has gone on tirades against U.S. District Court Judge Gonzalo Curiel, who is presiding over two class-action lawsuits against Trump's now-defunct real estate seminar enterprise that critics claim was a sprawling scam. Trump has recently questioned whether Curiel has an "inherent conflict of interest" because his Mexican heritage causes him to balk at Trump's proposal to build a massive wall along the U.S.-Mexico border.
> 
> *"He would try to disqualify any woman who is a judge because he has said terrible things about women, any Muslim-American who's a judge anywhere," Clinton said. "If we start disqualifying people because of who their parents and grandparents might be and where they came from, that would be running counter to everything we believe in."*



Let us make no mistake. America under the leadership of Trump is going to become an angry whiteman's paradise, but a hellhole for ethnic minorities. Trump's blatant racism isn't new. He has been saying such dastardly things for months now. Things look very bleak for the rest of the world when Trump wins the presidency.


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## RabzonKhan

*Hillary Clinton clinches Democratic presidential nomination*

By Stephen Collinson, CNN June 7, 2016

*(CNN)Hillary Clinton clinched the Democratic presidential nomination, according to CNN's delegate and superdelegate count, and will become the first woman in the 240-year history of the United States to lead the presidential ticket of a major political party.*

A strong showing in Puerto Rico's Democratic primary on Sunday and additional support from superdelegates put Clinton, 68, over the top on Monday night to become the presumptive nominee. She has secured 1,812 pledged delegates and 572 superdelegates for a total of 2,384 delegates -- one more than needed for the nomination.

Clinton's delegate count will grow Tuesday when six states, including delegate-rich California and New Jersey, hold contests. Speaking in Long Beach, California, on Monday, Clinton said she was still focused on the states where voters head to the polls Tuesday.

"We are on the brink of a historic, historic unprecedented moment but we still have work to do, don't we?" she said. "We have six elections tomorrow and are going to fight hard for every single vote, especially right here in California."

After three decades at the center of American politics as a pioneering -- and deeply controversial -- feminist icon, the victory brings Clinton within reach of finally cracking the "highest, hardest glass ceiling" she lamented eight years ago when she conceded the Democratic race to Barack Obama. The former first lady, senator from New York and secretary of state will officially become the Democratic nominee at next month's convention and will face presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump in a general election battle that is already shaping up as one of the nastiest campaigns in modern U.S. history. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> Ku Klux Klan is the largest White advocacy group, mostly the racist and some Democrats are opposed to the group, because the groups pro-White policies. The fact is, many top Democrats, including former president Harry S. Truman have attended their conferences.


Okay, you have good sense of humor, great. But on a serious note, your reply makes no sense.

Maybe you didn’t notice, KKK is a race-based terrorist group, their manifesto is based on hatred of non-whites, their ultimate agenda is to make America a white nation, on the other hand, LA RAZA works to promote equal rights/opportunities for Latino community, it mostly works with poor Latinos to integrate them into American society.

In my previous post, the point that I was trying to make was that if LA RAZA was a terrorist organization a Republican president would not had attended their conference, on the other hand your example that former president Harry S Truman attended KKK conference makes no sense, because Harry S Truman at one time was a member of KKK.


Now read the manifestos of LA RAZA and KKK and see the difference:


http://www.nclr.org/about-us/who-we-are/

*FROM JANET MURGUÍA,
NCLR PRESIDENT AND CEO*


http://traditionalistamericanknights.com/Who_We_Are.html

The Traditionalist American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan is a White Patriotic Christian organization


http://kkk.bz/?page_id=31

The Knights ‘ Party Platform


Your problem is that you copy third rate propaganda from mostly racist websites and paste them here. For example, you keep on posting Sen. Robert Byrd propaganda pictures, when I have repeatedly told you that Byrd had the decency to denounce his past, unlike Trump’s, KKK and Nazi (David Duke, (former Klu Klux Klan grand wizard), William Daniel Johnson (American Freedom Party), Jared Taylor, and Rocky Suhayda, (American Nazi Party) supporters.








Now look at this rubbish picture you posted, do you even know when he made that statement? Most probably NO, he made that statement in 1945 and at that time he was 28 years old, now look at that picture does he looks 28-year-old in that picture, that picture gives the impression like he made that statement just recently.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/18/AR2005061801105_pf.html

Byrd said in the Dec. 11, 1945, letter -- which would not become public for 42 more years with the publication of a book on blacks in the military during World War II by author Graham Smith -- that he would never fight in the armed forces "with a Negro by my side." Byrd added that, "Rather I should die a thousand times, and see old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels."


He is repeatedly apologized for his past:

*http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/18/AR2005061801105.html*
Despite his many achievements, however, the venerated Byrd has never been able to fully erase the stain of his association with one of the most reviled hate groups in the nation's history.

"It has emerged throughout my life to haunt and embarrass me and has taught me in a very graphic way what one major mistake can do to one's life, career, and reputation," Byrd wrote in a new memoir -- "Robert C. Byrd: Child of the Appalachian Coalfields" -- that will be published tomorrow by West Virginia University Press.

*Last week, Byrd said: "I know now I was wrong. Intolerance had no place in America. I apologized a thousand times . . . and I don't mind apologizing over and over again. I can't erase what happened."*



http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/06/12/byrd.access/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
*
BASH:*... You have said that one of your biggest regrets is briefly being a member of the Ku Klux Klan. Is that something that you just think you will never be able to get away from?

*BYRD:*No, I will never be able to get away from that albatross. ... I've been accustomed to people asking me the question about the Klan, and I've never hesitated to say that was the greatest mistake of my life, and it's a lesson to the young people of today, that once a major mistake has been made in one's life, it'll always be there, and it will be in my obituary. I hope that's a long time off, but it'll be there. ...

I'm accustomed to being angry at myself and disappointed with myself in having joined it, but it's there. And I've tried to be a senator, and as time has gone on, *I think I have broadened my views with my education and my experience, and, of course, I regret that great mistake, and I hope that young people will learn from my mistake.*


He was not just man of words but man of actions, he was awarded by the, National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, one of the largest black organization.


*http://www.naacp.org/press/entry/naacp-mourns-the-passing-of-u.s.-senator-robert-byrd/*
NAACP MOURNS THE PASSING OF U.S. SENATOR ROBERT BYRD

June 29, 2010

*Longest Serving Member of Congress Became a Champion for Civil Rights and Liberties*

WASHINGTON, DC - The NAACP is saddened by the passing of United States Senator Robert Byrd. Byrd, the longest serving member of congress was first elected to the U.S. House from in 1952 and was elected Senator in 1958. Byrd passed away this morning at the age of 92.

"Senator Byrd reflects the transformative power of this nation," stated NAACP President and CEO Benjamin Todd Jealous. "Senator Byrd went from being an active member of the KKK to a being a stalwart supporter of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act and many other pieces of seminal legislation that advanced the civil rights and liberties of our country.

"Senator Byrd came to consistently support the NAACP civil rights agenda, doing well on the NAACP Annual Civil Rights Report Card. He stood with us on many issues of crucial importance to our members from the reauthorization of the Voting Rights Act, the historic health care legislation of 2010 and his support for the Hate Crimes Prevention legislation," stated Hilary O. Shelton, Director of the NAACP Washington Bureau and Senior Vice President for Advocacy and Policy. "Senator Byrd was a master of the Senate



Dalit said:


> Let us make no mistake. America under the leadership of Trump is going to become an angry whiteman's paradise, but a hellhole for ethnic minorities. Trump's blatant racism isn't new. He has been saying such dastardly things for months now. Things look very bleak for the rest of the world when Trump wins the presidency.


I’m not worried, because Hillary is going to be our next president, not the racist demagogue.

Cheers!


----------



## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Okay, you have good sense of humor, great. But on a serious note, your reply makes no sense.


No, you don't make any sense because you said La Raza is not a racist organization, when literally it means "*The Race*" and it's based on ethnic politics.* Imagine if a Pro-Republican organization of White people was called "The Race", i'm sure you'd have your panties in a twist and throw tantrums about how they are "Racist KKK Neo Nazis".*

And you still haven't proven how Trump is racist but you keep talking out of your @$$ about how he's racist.

Cheers!



Dalit said:


> America is about to become a miserable craphole with Trump as its leader.


If America is a crap hole, what does that make Pakistan??

@C130 @Hamartia Antidote @gambit @libertad @XenoEnsi-14

@boomslang


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## RabzonKhan

*Hillary just made history! *
*



*

Hillary Clinton marked her place in American history Tuesday night, declaring victory in the Democratic presidential race.

“Thanks to you, we’ve reached a milestone,” she told cheering supporters in Brooklyn, saying for the “first time in our nation’s history” a woman would lead a major-party ticket.

We need to raise pay, create good-paying jobs, and build an economy that works for everyone—not just those at the top. I’ll cut taxes for the middle class, raise the minimum wage, and ensure the wealthiest pay their fair share. I’ll invest in infrastructure and education. And I’ll help parents balance work and family.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/740349871073398785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/740389964882403328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/740373188220178433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/740371436439777280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/740370706534436864


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## RabzonKhan

*
Findings from an Ipsos Global @visor Study International Perspectives of Clinton vs. Trump June 7, 2016 *

Methodology These are the findings of the Global @dvisor Wave 82 (G@82), an Ipsos survey conducted between May 20th and June 3rd. The survey instrument is conducted monthly in 25 countries around the world via the Ipsos Online Panel system.

The countries reporting herein are Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Great Britain, Germany, Hungary, India, Israel, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Peru, Poland, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Turkey and the United States of America.

For the results of the survey presented herein, an international sample of 12,500 adults aged 18-64 in the US, Israel and Canada, and age 16-64 in all other countries, were interviewed. Approximately 500+ individuals participated on a country by country basis via the Ipsos Online Panel.

The United States is electing a new President this year. If you had a vote in this election, would you vote for (ROTATE) Republican candidate Donald Trump, or Democrat candidate Hillary Clinton.

Hillary Clinton 57%

Donald Trump 13% (loser)

Donald Trump was only popular in two countries, China and Russia.

28% Russians supported Trump and 12% favored Hillary, and almost 60% had no opinion.

In China, 32% for Trump and 30% for Hillary, 39% had no opinion.

But I was really surprised, 48% Indians supported Hillary and only 27 supported Trump.





Desert Fox said:


> No, you don't make any sense because you said La Raza is not a racist organization, when literally it means "*The Race*" and it's based on ethnic politics.* Imagine if a Pro-Republican organization of White people was called "The Race", *


Personal attacks are against the rule of our forum, so if you want to debate/exchange opinions with me then you will have to stop with your profanities, there is no need for vulgar language, I told you previously, just take it easy there is no need to get nasty.

Now to answer your question, yes, I stand by what I said, La Raza is not a racist organization, La Raza also means *“the people” or “community”,* and that will make more sense, since they represents Latinos and Latino IS NOT A RACE, why is it so difficult for you to understand.

So your attempt to compare them with KKK and the Nazis is just ridiculous.

I noticed that you did not mention Robert Byrd, good, that’s progress.


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Now to answer your question, yes, I stand by what I said, La Raza is not a racist organization,


Than why aren't there any Chinese, Pakistani, Indian, or Arab immigrant members in that organization?
Answer: Because it's a racist organization.



RabzonKhan said:


> La Raza also means* “the people” or “community”,*


No it doesn't:













RabzonKhan said:


> Latino IS NOT A RACE


Good, so you finally acknowledge Trump isn't racist then.



RabzonKhan said:


> So your attempt to compare them with KKK and the Nazis is just ridiculous.


Let's see, "La *Raza*" ("The *Race*"), who else is obsessed with Race?



*Doesn't change the fact that Hillary openly admires Racist people:*




​

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## T-72M1



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## Darmashkian

@Desert Fox @CorporateAffairs 
do see this video






& this





*& read Scott adams(creator of Dilbert)blog on why DOnald Trump can win.*

I don't like Trump & wouldnt vote for him, but he does have a good chance of winning.

Yes,he is stupid & ignorant of policy,facts & governance,but he is really smart when it comes to PR,persuasion & electoral politics & getting what/who he wants.

I think he will win this election by a small margin in Voteshare.. I can't talk about the electoral college

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## RabzonKhan

For more than a year now, across thousands of miles and all 50 states, tens of millions of Americans have made their voices heard.

Today, I just want to add mine. I want to congratulate Hillary Clinton on making history as the presumptive Democratic nominee for president of the United States.

*Look, I know how hard this job can be. That’s why I know Hillary will be so good at it. In fact I don’t think there’s ever been someone so qualified to hold this office. She’s got the courage, the compassion and the heart to get the job done. And I say that as somebody who had to debate her more than 20 times.*

*Even after our own hard-fought campaign, in a testament to her character, she agreed to serve our country as secretary of state. And from the decision we made in the situation room to get Bin Laden, to our pursuit of diplomacy in capitals around the world, I have seen her judgment. I’ve seen her toughness. I’ve seen her commitment to our values up close. I’ve seen her determination to give every American a fair shot at opportunity, no matter how tough the fight was. That’s what’s always driven her, and still does.*

So I want those of you who’ve been with me from the beginning of this incredible journey to be the first to know that I’m with her. I am fired up. And I cannot wait to get out there and campaign for Hillary.

I also want to thank everybody who came out to vote and who worked so hard for our candidates. This has been ahard-fought race. I know some say these primaries have somehow left the Democratic party more divided. Well, you know, they said that eight years ago as well. But just like eight years ago, there are millions of Americans, not just Democrats, who’ve cast their ballots for the very first time. And a lot of that is thanks to senator Bernie Sanders, who has run an incredible campaign.

I had a great meeting with him this week, and I thanked him for shining a spotlight on issues like economic inequality, and the outsized influence of money in our politics, and bringing young people into the process. Embracing that message is going to help us win in November. But more importantly, it’ll make the Democratic party stronger, and it’ll make America stronger.

*Secretary Clinton and senator Sanders may have been rivals during this primary. But they’re both patriots who love this country, and they share a vision for the America that we all believe in. An America that’s hopeful. An America that’s big-hearted. An America that’s strong and fair, and gives every child the same chance that we had.*

Those are the values that unite us as Democrats. Those are the values that make America great. Those are the values that are going to be tested in this election. *And if we all come together in common effort, I’m convinced we won’t just win in November, we’ll build on the progress that we’ve made and we’ll build a brighter future for this country that we love.*


----------



## RabzonKhan

*Elizabeth Warren Fireworks: Trump a "Loud, Nasty, Thin-Skinned Fraud," a "Wannabe Tyrant"
*
Posted By Ian Schwartz
On Date June 9, 2016






Sen. Elizabeth Warren lets loose on Donald Trump at a speech she delivered at the American Constitution Society's national convention Thursday evening.


SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN: Judge Curiel is one of countless American patriots who has spent decades quietly serving his country, sometimes at great risk to his own life. Donald Trump is a loud, nasty, thin-skinned fraud who has never risked anything for anyone and serves nobody but himself. And that is just one of the many reasons why he will never be President of the United States

*Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell want Donald Trump to appoint the next generation of judges. They want those judges to tilt the law to favor big business and billionaires like Trump. They just want Donald to quit being so vulgar and obvious about it. Donald Trump chose racism as his weapon, but his aim is exactly the same as the rest of the Republicans. Pound the courts into submission to the rich and powerful.*

*We will not allow a small, insecure, thin-skinned wannabe tyrant or his allies in the Senate to destroy the rule of law in the United States of America.* It's time again to fight – as we have in every generation – for those four simple words that define the promise of our legal system. Equal justice under law.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/733480793419325441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/733480445455687683


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## T-72M1

this was so LOL


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## RabzonKhan

Exactly my thoughts, Trump is a dangerous racist demagogue and if he is elected he will destroy our country, and as I have said many times, he’s a bigger threat to this country than our enemies.

His dangerous race-based campaign known as the “Southern strategy”, is already stirring up and encouraging the worst (KKK, Nazis, Mexican gangs) among us, and imagine if this man takes over the White House what would happen then.









*Mitt Romney says Donald Trump will change America with 'trickle-down racism'
*
By Theodore Schleifer, CNN June 11, 2016

*Park City, Utah (CNN)Mitt Romney suggested Friday that Donald Trump's election could legitimize racism and misogyny, ushering in a change in the moral fabric of American society.*

The 2012 Republican nominee, who has openly opposed Trump's candidacy, went further than he has before in outlining to CNN's Wolf Blitzer how the country's character would suffer in a Trump White House. *Trump's rhetoric has caused even some other Republicans to label him a racist, and Romney said he would not be able to paper over his incendiary remarks.*

"I don't want to see trickle-down racism," Romney said in an interview here in a suite overlooking the Wasatch Mountains, where he is hosting his yearly ideas conference. *"I don't want to see a president of the United States saying things which change the character of the generations of Americans that are following. Presidents have an impact on the nature of our nation, and trickle-down racism, trickle-down bigotry, trickle-down misogyny, all these things are extraordinarily dangerous to the heart and character of America." Read more*


*
*


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## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> Than why aren't there any Chinese, Pakistani, Indian, or Arab immigrant members in that organization?
> Answer: Because it's a racist organization.


You can’t be serious, are you, do you really think Latino/Hispanic is a race?!

So let’s see what the US government has to say about it:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2075.html#mx
US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean persons of Spanish/Hispanic/Latino origin including those of Mexican, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Dominican Republic, Spanish, and Central or South American origin living in the US *who may be of any race or ethnic group* (*white, black, Asian, etc*.); about 15.1% of the total US population is Hispanic..

And for your kind information, there are millions of Chinese, Pak/Indian, Arab descent Latinos living in Central America, Caribbean and South America, they are all considered Hispanic/Latino.

Here are some interesting links if you want to check:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2075.html#mx
This entry provides an ordered listing of ethnic groups starting with the largest and normally includes the percent of total population

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...of-latin-american-politicians-of-arab-origin/
By some estimates, about 250,000 to 300,000 Arabs emigrated to Argentina, Brazil and Mexico around this time, fleeing the upheavals that beset a collapsing Ottoman Empire.

“The diaspora includes global icons such as Mexican tycoon Carlos Slim and Colombian pop star Shakira. About 10 percent of members of Brazil's parliament have Arab ancestry.”

https://ngcco.wordpress.com/2013/03...-america-has-had-8-presidents-of-arab-origin/
However, Latin American-Arabs are not only well represented among the economic elites of the region; they are also*deeply integrated in the social fabric and political life of their host countries*. One of the most striking evidence of this is the fact that over the last 60 years, *8 Latin American presidents had Arab origin*



> No it doesn't:
> 
> View attachment 309490
> 
> 
> View attachment 309491


Look, both of us are bilingual and we should know that it is not easy to translate a foreign language, since words can have multiple meanings. As I said in my previous post that La Raza also means people, and that makes more sense, since they represents Latinos and Latino IS NOT A RACE.

So here are some good examples:

https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=La+Raza&submit.x=41&submit.y=26
According to the American Heritage Dictionary *La Raza means:*

Mexicans or Mexican Americans considered as a group, sometimes extending to all Spanish-speaking people of the Americas.

*American Spanish, the people.*


http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/La+Raza+Unida+Party
*Partido Nacionalde La Raza Unida *(National United *Peoples *Party or United Race Party)


http://blogs.uoregon.edu/mecha/programming/ruyc/
University of Oregon

*Raza Unida Youth Conference *

The motto of Raza Unida Youth Conference is Educación: El Derecho De *La Raza! *(Education: *The Right of the People!)*.


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Viva la raza
Viva la raza: Long live the people (and or race)

Viva mi raza: long live my people



> Good, so you finally acknowledge Trump isn't racist then.


No, I don’t!




> Let's see, "La *Raza*" ("The *Race*"), who else is obsessed with Race?
> 
> 
> 
> *Doesn't change the fact that Hillary openly admires Racist people:*
> 
> View attachment 309492​
> ​


Yet another weak attempt to label Hillary racist, lol, the fact is, if Hillary was really a racist than majority of nonwhites and particularly Blacks would not have overwhelmingly voted for her, they are not stupid.

Margaret Sanger was a birth control activists, sex educator, and the founder of Planned Parenthood. She is admired for her long struggle to legalize birth control, not for some of our racist comments.

At the time she was born and raised, racism was quite widespread in American society and certainly she was no exception, but at least she acknowledged racism was evil, she this:

https://www.nyu.edu/projects/sanger/webedition/app/documents/show.php?sangerDoc=320145.xml
“I’ve traveled in India and China,” she said. “Knowing our own problem, it gave me greater sympathy with the others, with what I saw in the Orient. I can recall many horrible things I saw in India. I once saw a white man come out of a train; there were five or six Indians in his way; he just kicked them away--literally, with his foot. There were a hundred people around, who were powerless to strike him. The white man’s power and the Indian’s defenselessness were so unjust.

“In China, the Chinese could not go on ‘our’ property. A Chinese doctor was not allowed to see me, couldn’t come into the American area. Discrimination is a world-wide thing. It has to be opposed everywhere. That is why I feel the Negro’s plight here is linked with that of the oppressed around the globe.

“The big answer, as I see it, is the education of the white man. The white man is the problem. It is the same as with the Nazis. We must change the white attitudes. That is where it lies.”


Here’s another example that shows National Council of La Raza is not a racist organization, as its critics try to portray it:

“For example, in 2006, as part of NCLR’s homeownership program, NCLR Affiliates served about 29,000 clients. *Almost 20% were White and approximately 12% were Black.* The program targets low-income neighborhoods that contain large Hispanic populations, where NCLR Affiliates are often among the few institutions to offer their services in both English and Spanish.”

Now has the racist KKK and Nazis done anything for the minorities?

Adiós Por Ahora!






T-72M1 said:


> this was so LOL


You were right, it was really funny, no doubt, Trump is a clown and an excellent standup comedian, but he is not a presidential material. 

As usual, he was damn lying!

He says Elizabeth Warren is a ‘Total Failure’ but her Senate Record is actually exceptional.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/elizabeth_warren/412542
*Sen. Elizabeth Warren*
Senator from Massachusetts, Democrat


----------



## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> You were right, it was really funny, no doubt, Trump is a clown and an excellent standup comedian, but he is not a presidential material.


here's what you guys (American leftists) really need to be scared of

that Trump is an unbelievably talented public speaker, maybe the best ever...

and then you have crooked Hillary, one of the worst speakers ever, 0 charisma, no holding power, drowning in scandals, the face of the "establishment", it is so obvious when she does her pandering routine to minorities 

Bernie would have been so much stronger as a real opposition figure to Trump but will probably not be too effective as a Hillary attack dog, his designated role, I doubt his heart will be in it if he does take the job, besides..






no. 45 is going to be Trump , and the minorities in the US will be just fine, too much scaremongering 

@Desert Fox

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> You can’t be serious,


Are you serious?? Answer my question:


*If "La Raza" ("The Race") is not a racist organization than why aren't there Chinese, Somalian, Arab, Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, and other non-Latino immigrants a part of that organization??*

*Where's the DIVERSITY??* Certainly if they're not racist everyone should be a part of their group.




RabzonKhan said:


> So let’s see what the US government has to say about it:


So the US government agrees that Latinos =/= a Race therefore Trump =/= racist.






RabzonKhan said:


> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2075.html#mx





RabzonKhan said:


> This entry provides an ordered listing of ethnic groups starting with the largest and normally includes the percent of total population
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...of-latin-american-politicians-of-arab-origin/
> By some estimates, about 250,000 to 300,000 Arabs emigrated to Argentina, Brazil and Mexico around this time, fleeing the upheavals that beset a collapsing Ottoman Empire.
> 
> “The diaspora includes global icons such as Mexican tycoon Carlos Slim and Colombian pop star Shakira. About 10 percent of members of Brazil's parliament have Arab ancestry.”
> 
> https://ngcco.wordpress.com/2013/03...-america-has-had-8-presidents-of-arab-origin/
> However, Latin American-Arabs are not only well represented among the economic elites of the region; they are also*deeply integrated in the social fabric and political life of their host countries*. One of the most striking evidence of this is the fact that over the last 60 years,
> *8 Latin American presidents had Arab origin*


And this proves that "La Raza ("The Race") can't be a racist organization? Where are the Somalian immigrants in that group? *Where's the diversity??*



RabzonKhan said:


> Look, both of us are bilingual and we should know that it is not easy to translate a foreign language, since words can have multiple meanings. As I said in my previous post that La Raza also means people, and that makes more sense, since they represents Latinos and Latino IS NOT A RACE.



I took Spanish in middle and highschool and Raza does not mean people.



RabzonKhan said:


> So here are some good examples:
> 
> https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=La+Raza&submit.x=41&submit.y=26
> According to the American Heritage Dictionary *La Raza means:*
> 
> Mexicans or Mexican Americans considered as a group, sometimes extending to all Spanish-speaking people of the Americas.
> 
> *American Spanish, the people.*
> 
> 
> http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/La+Raza+Unida+Party
> *Partido Nacionalde La Raza Unida *(National United *Peoples *Party or United Race Party)
> 
> 
> http://blogs.uoregon.edu/mecha/programming/ruyc/
> University of Oregon
> 
> *Raza Unida Youth Conference *
> 
> The motto of Raza Unida Youth Conference is Educación: El Derecho De *La Raza! *(Education: *The Right of the People!)*.
> 
> 
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Viva la raza
> Viva la raza: Long live the people (and or race)
> 
> Viva mi raza: long live my people


Still includes the word RACE (Raza). Gente means strictly people in Spanish. If they were strictly referring to people (Gente) then why wasn't it "La Gente" instead of "La Raza" ("The Race")??




RabzonKhan said:


> No, I don’t!


Yeah, you did. If Latinos aren't a race then Trump isn't racist for calling them out.




RabzonKhan said:


> Yet another weak attempt to label Hillary racist, lol, the fact is, if Hillary was really a racist than majority of nonwhites and particularly Blacks would not have overwhelmingly voted for her, they are not stupid.


Same can be said about Trump. Oh, but he's a "racist Nazi KKK Fascist". 



RabzonKhan said:


> Margaret Sanger was a birth control activists, sex educator, and the founder of Planned Parenthood. She is admired for her long struggle to legalize birth control, not for some of our racist comments.


She was also a Racist who believed people of your and mine skin color should be exterminated. Her Birth Control which you lauded was mainly intended for non-Whites, *in other words she didn't want you to be born*  .


*Racist people Hillary admires: 2 (Robert Byrd, Margaret Sanger)*

*Racist people Trump admires: 0 *



T-72M1 said:


> here's what you guys (American leftists) really need to be scared of
> 
> that Trump is an unbelievably talented public speaker, maybe the best ever...
> 
> and then you have crooked Hillary, one of the worst speakers ever, 0 charisma, no holding power, drowning in scandals, the face of the "establishment", it is so obvious when she does her pandering routine to minorities
> 
> Bernie would have been so much stronger as a real opposition figure to Trump but will probably not be too effective as a Hillary attack dog, his designated role, I doubt his heart will be in it if he does take the job, besides..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no. 45 is going to be Trump , and the minorities in the US will be just fine, too much scaremongering
> 
> @Desert Fox


If these leftist morons think that Bernie supporters will endorse a liar, murderer, racist, sexist, corrupt career politician like Hillary Clinton just because Bernie will endorse her then they are in for a surprise. Bernie would rather destroy the trust he worked so hard to gain within his support base.


----------



## Devil Soul

*The one simple thing Hillary could do (but won’t)*
By Arun Gupta
June 12, 2016

Panic is seeping into Hillary Clinton’s presidential bid. Her recent lead of more than 10 points over Donald Trump has withered to 1.5 percent. There are many reasons why she could lose.

Trump is simply a better politician. His adroit use of media enables him to define the terms of the debate. Given her 25 years in the public eye, Clinton’s sky-high negatives are more difficult to shift than Trump’s. Voters trust Trump more on the economy and to bring change Washington.

Demographics may favor Democrats as the population grows browner and most voters are women, but white working-class Democrats are streaming over to Trump in must-win states like Pennsylvania. While Clinton will rise in the polls once the party consolidates behind her, the anger on the left toward the Democratic Party is spurring many Sanders supporters to vow they will sit out the election, vote for a third-party candidate, or even cast a ballot for Trump.

Nonetheless, Trump’s paths to victory are narrow. Most elites are lined up against him. The corporate media, intelligentsia, Hollywood, Silicon Valley, and Wall Street will hammer Trump relentlessly as he threatens the American-led project of globalization, which includes the liberal multiculturalism he trashes with glee.

Obama will deploy his status as the most popular national politician to boost Clinton. By the time the media finish defining Trump as the second coming of Hitler, Sanders backers will vote for Clinton overwhelmingly, even if reluctantly. And the narrative of a Trump victory is driven more by the media’s desire for click bait than a realistic assessment of his chances.

But one mountainous obstacle remains for Clinton. Even as she’s found her footing in attacking Trump, lacerating him as a unique danger to humanity a la Barry Goldwater, Clinton struggles to provide an affirmative reason why she should be in the White House.

Clinton can paint Trump as a hypothetical threat but her history shows she is a proven threat. Once her unabashed venality, ambition, and pandering is filtered out, what remains is Clinton’s lust for war and Wall Street without limits. So it’s not entirely accurate, as Jon Stewart observes, that Clinton lacks “the courage of her convictions,” but she won’t be elected president with a slogan of more wars and more bank bailouts.

Clinton’s strategy is to find the right message, the right tone, and overwhelm Trump on the ground. While Trump smashed GOP records with 13 million votes in the primary, that is just 20 percent of what Obama garnered in his 2012 re-election.

And Trump is sowing the seeds of his defeat given his chaotic management style, a staff just one-tenth the size of Clinton’s, abandonment of the crucial get-out-the-vote effort to the Republican National Committee, and plans to rely on his ego to turn out voters.

This election comes down to Trump’s vulgar will to power versus Clinton’s brute force neoliberalism.

But Clinton could steer a course that would enable her to drub Trump and swing Congress back into the Democratic column. Rather than obsess over the mechanics and messaging of campaigning, Clinton could make opposition to new free-trade deals and renegotiating existing ones like NAFTA a signature campaign pledge.

By doing so, Clinton could steal Trump’s thunder. While liberals imagine Trump supporters have crawled out of a swamp of ‘racial and cultural resentments’, they are also deeply motivated by economic grievances.

Since 1997, free-trade deals have cost most of the 5 million manufacturing jobs lost in the United States and reduced annual wages by some US$1,800 for non-college educated workers. Given Trump’s tendency to reverse positions mid-thought, there’s little risk for Clinton to flip-flop, as she already has on nearly every position. She already switched last fall to opposing the Trans-Pacific Partnership after calling it the “gold standard.”

But Clinton only meekly disagrees with the TPP, saying, “I don’t have the text, we don’t yet have all the details, I don’t believe it’s going to meet the high bar I have set.” While she ticks off every issue imaginable to bolster the economy, including clean energy, early childhood learning, and medical research, she’s utterly silent about disastrous free-trade deals like NAFTA.

It’s a replay of Bill Clinton’s 1996 reelection: tout micro-policies that sound good but do little to help workers, while taking pains not to loosen Wall Street’s iron-fisted control of the economy. By not forcefully rejecting free trade, Clinton refuses to acknowledge how it’s wrecked working-class status and aspirations.

It’s not like Wall Street has a choice this election. Even if Trump managed to suppress his mercurial and authoritarian tendencies, his pledges to impose tariffs, commence trade wars, and deport 11 million immigrants would wreak economic and social havoc.

Between Trump and Sanders, most Americans have voted for redistributive policies this election. The only difference is Trump supporters blame immigrants for their woes as much, if not more, as they blame Wall Street and politicians. Plus, Trump’s caustic assault means Clinton will eventually be forced to denounce free-trade deals. (NAFTA is the one issue Trump is consistent about, having publicly opposed it since at least 1993.)

If Clinton leaped ahead of the curve, making opposition to free trade a keystone position and buttressing it with a trillion-dollar clean-energy jobs program, she could consolidate Sanders supporters and working-class Democrats behind her, dashing Trump’s chances.

As much as this makes sense for Clinton, even from a realpolitik perspective, it’s unlikely to happen. Obama confronted the same choice in 2009. He had a mandate and congressional super-majority to push for a “New, New Deal,” a huge public works and benefits program that would begin to reverse decades of income inequality.

Instead, his administration spent its political capital on restoring the profits and power of investment banks and choosing tepid measures for everyone else such as rationalizing health care, rather than expanding it, and enacting a stimulus that failed to revive the economy. If millions of Americans currently had an “Obamajob” and full health care, it would have created widespread support among workers for the Democrats as a party that can deliver the goods.

Despite a clear path to victory, Clinton will take the more perilous road of neoliberalism. That is the thinking behind the Democrats’ claimthat for “every one of those blue-collar Democrats [Trump] picks up, he will lose to Hillary two socially moderate Republicans and independents.”

Playing to the right is evidence of how the Democratic Party has become a more committed and competent manager of capitalist globalization than the GOP. Clinton is also a creature of Wall Street going back to the late seventies when she made a small fortune trading cattle futures with the suspicious help of a market expert.

Clinton is likely to win, but if she does lose to Trump it’s not because white Americans are unalterably racist. It’s because the Democratic Party and the Clintons are unalterably devoted to Wall Street.

This article was originally published as: ‘The one simple thing Hillary could do (but won’t) to crush Trump’.

Courtesy: Counterpunch.org

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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742068030620962817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742069363340107777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742070501032534017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742071728118059009


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## RabzonKhan

Trump has miserably failed to show any leadership qualities, since yesterday all he is been doing is inflaming hatred against Muslims, no doubt, this man is a racist demagogue and a threat to America, and he is a poster boy for the religious (ISIS, AQ, Taliban) terrorists propaganda.


On the other hand, Hillary Clinton has shown great leadership:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742072889860579329


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742367624089194496


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742405910073647104


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742406479681064961


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742407644284092417


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742408690985226241


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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742409362593964032


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742409706359119872


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742410092457406464


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742426734188990464


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## Desert Fox

*Trump Gives Speech On National Security, 
Calls Out Hillary For Her 
Sympathy For Terrorist Organizations










*


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## C130

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump has miserably failed to show any leadership qualities, since yesterday all he is been doing is inflaming hatred against Muslims, no doubt, this man is a racist demagogue and a threat to America, and he is a poster boy for the religious (ISIS, AQ, Taliban) terrorists propaganda.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, Hillary Clinton has shown great leadership:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742072889860579329
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742367624089194496
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742405910073647104
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742406479681064961
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742407644284092417
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742408690985226241




you are pro Hillary Clinton . I wonder how many of your fellow Brothers and Sisters she got killed as Secretary of State (worse one in our history too boot) and how many she will get killed as POTUS.

Trump wants peace with Muslims unlike the Zionists,Wahhabi, and secret groups (freemasons, order of malta) 


all and all white people and American Muslims have gotten along pretty well considering what has happened. Trump 

George W. Bush and Obama and their cronies need to be tried for treason for what they have done to this country and the world.


Trump could do no worse than them and crooked snake Hillary as POTUS

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RabzonKhan

C130 said:


> you are pro Hillary Clinton . I wonder how many of your fellow Brothers and Sisters she got killed as Secretary of State (worse one in our history too boot) and how many she will get killed as POTUS.
> 
> Trump wants peace with Muslims unlike the Zionists,Wahhabi, and secret groups (freemasons, order of malta)
> 
> 
> all and all white people and American Muslims have gotten along pretty well considering what has happened. Trump
> 
> George W. Bush and Obama and their cronies need to be tried for treason for what they have done to this country and the world.
> 
> 
> Trump could do no worse than them and crooked snake Hillary as POTUS


C130, sorry to say, but Trump has totally failed his first leadership test, he has shown that he is nothing but a third class politician, in tragedies like these great leaders try to unite (Hillary and Obama has shown great leadership) the nation and the weak look for scapegoats, in trumps America, if one sick Muslim commits violence than the entire Muslim world will have to pay a price.

The day this tragedy happened, Trump started his day by bragging on the twitter, than he pointed fingers at Pres. Obama, even shamelessly suggesting as if Obama wanted this to happen, next he wanted to score cheap points with Hillary Clinton, since Hillary Clinton has not declared war on the entire Muslim world, so that according to Trump makes her a weak leader.

Then he doubled down on his shameless call to bar all Muslims from entering the US, funny thing is that first the genius did not even know that the terrorist was born in US, so how would banning the Muslims from entering the US would had helped in preventing this terrorist attack, only the great property developer knows.

And now shamelessly he has made this tragedy a cornerstone of his election campaign, now we do know that one of his favorite bedtime books use to be Mein Kampf.


----------



## pakdefender

What's the latest nation wide poll on Trump vs Hilary ?

The Orlando shooting will likely give boost Trump


----------



## RabzonKhan

*Donald Trump’s Antiterror Plans Rebuked by Leaders of Both Parties*

Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and GOP House Speaker Paul Ryan all rejected Muslim immigration ban

COLLEEN MCCAIN NELSON
June 14, 2016

President Barack Obama and House Speaker Paul Ryan, the nation’s leading Democratic and Republican elected officials, rebuked presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump over his response to this weekend’s Orlando massacre, rejecting his call to temporarily ban Muslims from entering the U.S.

*Mr. Trump also came under more fire from expected Democratic opponent Hillary Clinton, who said his policies would make America less safe.

The swift, bipartisan criticism illustrates the steep challenges ahead for the political newcomer as he enters the general-election phase of the presidential race.*

Recent polls show Mrs. Clinton moving further ahead of Mr. Trump, even though she has yet to hold a series of events to try to unify the Democratic Party at the close of her extended primary battle with Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders. She leads Mr. Trump by more than four points in the average of polls compiled by Real Clear Politics.

“Are we going to start treating all Muslim-Americans differently?” Mr. Obama said. “Are we going to start discriminating against them, because of their faith?” The president added that isn’t the America he wants.

Mr. Trump remained defiant. “President Obama claims to know our enemy, and yet he continues to prioritize our enemy over our allies, and for that matter, the American people,” Mr. Trump said in an emailed statement on Tuesday. “When I am president, it will always be America first.”

Later Tuesday at a rally in Greensboro N.C., Mr. Trump said, “He was more angry at me than he was at the shooter…That’s the kind of anger he should have for the shooter.”

The rhetorical exchanges came after Mr. Trump also raised questions about Mr. Obama’s response to the extremist threat, saying that Mr. Obama “doesn’t get it, or he gets it better than anybody understands.”

*Mrs. Clinton called her likely Republican rival’s comments “shameful” and “disrespectful.”*

*“Even in a time of divided politics, this is way beyond anything that should be said by someone running for president,” the former secretary of state told supporters in Pittsburgh.*

*“I have to ask: Will responsible Republican leaders stand up to their presumptive nominee, or will they stand by his accusation about our president?” she said.*

The president never uttered Mr. Trump’s name in his remarks, while Mrs. Clinton repeatedly referred to her likely rival simply as “Donald.”

*For his part, Mr. Ryan called for an alliance with moderate Muslims to combat Islamic terrorists—instead of the sweeping ban Mr. Trump has advocated.* Mr. Ryan said the U.S. should tighten its screening process of refugees entering the country, rather than impose a religious test.

*“I do not think a Muslim ban is in our country’s interest. I do not think it is reflective of our principles—not just as a party, but as a country,” Mr. Ryan said.*

*Sen. Ron Johnson, a Wisconsin Republican running in a tight re-election race, also said Mr. Trump’s comments after Orlando were “offensive.”*

Brian Reisinger, spokesman for Mr. Johnson’s Senate re-election campaign, said his boss finds Mr. Trump’s comments about the Orlando attack to be “wrong,” adding that “we need to focus on areas of agreement that unite us in a strong commitment to destroy ISIS and battle Islamic terrorism. Ron hopes the president and people from both parties will agree on this objective,” he said.

Clinton campaign officials have said that the Orlando killings, the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history, and Mr. Trump’s response to it, underscore how important national security will be in the presidential election, and bolster their contention that the New York businessman is temperamentally unfit for the job of commander in chief.

Mr. Trump blamed Sunday’s shooting on the president and his former secretary of state, saying that they restrained intelligence gathering and presided over a dysfunctional immigration system that brought Islamic terrorists to the U.S. The presumptive Republican nominee also denounced Mrs. Clinton’s infrequent use of the term “radical Islam.”

“She has no clue, in my opinion, what radical Islam is, and she won’t speak honestly about it if she does, in fact, know,” Mr. Trump said Monday. “She’s in total denial, and her continuing reluctance to ever name the enemy broadcasts weakness across the entire world—true weakness.”

On Tuesday, Mrs. Clinton said Mr. Trump was fixated on the terminology. She asked, “Is Donald Trump suggesting that there are magic words that, once uttered, will stop terrorists from coming after us?”

Mr. Obama raised the same point, suggesting that using the “radical Islam” label more frequently wouldn’t lessen Islamic State militants’ commitment to killing Americans.

“Calling a threat by a different name does not make it go away,” he said. “This is a political distraction.”

Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton also repeated their calls for tougher restrictions on guns Tuesday, saying that the U.S. needs to make it harder for people who want to kill to obtain “weapons of war.”

Omar S. Mateen, the the New York-born son of Afghan immigrants whom police have identified as the Orlando shooter, legally bought a rifle and a handgun in recent days, according to law enforcement officials.

“Let’s get this straight: We have reached the point where people can’t board planes with full bottles of shampoo,” Mrs. Clinton said. “But people being watched by the FBI for suspected terrorist links can buy a gun with no questions asked. That is absurd.”

Mr. Trump said Monday that Mrs. Clinton wants to take away Americans’ guns and that he wants to ensure people have the means to protect themselves in the age of terror.


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## RabzonKhan

*Clinton wins D.C. primary, has 'positive' meeting with Sanders*
 
*WASHINGTON*|BYJOHN WHITESIDES

Hillary Clinton formally concluded the U.S. Democratic presidential race on Tuesday with a win in the District of Columbia primary, then turned her focus to uniting the party during a 90-minute private meeting with defeated rival Bernie Sanders.

Clinton, who secured enough delegates to clinch the nomination last week, met with Sanders in a downtown Washington hotel as the sometimes bitter primary combatants searched for common ground ahead of the Nov. 8 election against presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump.


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## RabzonKhan

As expected, general election voters are not buying trumps hate. I’m lovin it!







*Poll: Majority of Americans disapprove of Trump's Orlando shooting response*

By Eric DuVall | June 15, 2016

ORLANDO, Fla., June 15 (UPI) -- A majority of Americans disapproved of presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump's response to the Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando, a new poll finds.

A CBS News poll conducted in the days since the attack finds 51 percent of those surveyed said they did not like the way Trump was handling the shooting.

In the wake of the shooting death of 49 people by Omar Mateen, who pledged his allegiance to the Islamic State, Trump appeared to take credit for having predicted the incident. He also renewed his call to prohibit all Muslims from entering the country.

Just 25 percent of those surveyed said they approved of Trump's reaction.

The numbers for President Barack Obama's handling of the shooting are much better. Forty-four percent of Americans gave Obama high marks for his response, while 34 percent gave him an unfavorable rating. *Read more*



*

Negative views of Donald Trump just hit a new campaign high: 7 in 10 Americans
*
By Scott Clement June 15 2016

In the latest sign Americans are dreading their general election options -- and particularly one of them -- negative views of Donald Trump have surged to their highest level of the 2016 campaign, according to anew Washington Post-ABC News poll.

Trump's unfavorable rating, in fact, far surpasses Hillary Clinton's even as the presumptive Democratic nominee receives her worst ratings in more than two decades in public life.

*The poll finds 70 percent of Americans have an unfavorable view of Trump, including a 56 percent majority who feel this way "strongly." Negative ratings of Trump are up 10 percentage points from last month to their highest point since he announced his candidacy last summer, nearly reaching the level seen before his campaign began (71 percent). *The survey was conducted Wednesday through Sunday among a random national sample of U.S. adults, coming after last week's primary contests, but with the large majority of interviews completed before Sunday's massacre at an Orlando club. *Read more*








*Hillary Clinton Opens Up Double-Digit Lead on Trump in New Poll
*
A new national poll from Bloomberg shows *Hillary Clinton holding a 12-point lead on Donald Trump.* 

*The former First Lady, after officially clinching the Democratic nomination and gaining the endorsement of President Obama, garnered 49 percent support in the survey, with Trump at 37 percent and libertarian candidate Gary Johnson picking up nine percent. Only four percent said they were undecided.*





*@Irfan Baloch *@MastanKhan_, _ @haviZsultan @*pakdefender* *@RescueRanger *@*Syed.Ali.Haider* @*Hamartia Antidote * @air marshal @Armstrong @AsianUnion @RescueRanger @*Metanoia* @Capt.Popeye @AgNoStiC MuSliM @XenoEnsi-14 @*ultron @war&peace @iPhone @American Pakistani *


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## war&peace

No one in my office supports Trump, only three people I met supported him in three months in Atlanta.

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## Vassnti

Pokemon gets political, the new weasel pokemon Yungoos looks a little familiar






Yungoos upon transformation becomes Notrealyarepublicangoos repeals the second amendment and sells California to the Saudis.



http://www.news.com.au/technology/n...p/news-story/02b44f2c3096db5c83fa7683d26f6c66

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## RabzonKhan

If Trump cannot even unite his own party, how the hell can he unite a country as diverse as United States, he is a divider.

Here is a list of important Republicans who have so far refused to support him:








George W Bush FORMER PRESIDENT, TEXAS

George HW Bush FORMER PRESIDENT, TEXAS

Charlie Baker GOVERNOR, MASSACHUSETTS

Lindsey Graham SENATOR, SOUTH CAROLINA

Dean Heller SENATOR, NEVADA

Larry Hogan GOVERNOR, MARYLAND

Mark Kirk SENATOR, ILLINOIS

Mitt Romney FORMER NOMINEE,MASSACHUSETTS

Ben Sasse SENATOR, NEBRASKA

John Ellis "Jeb" Bush FORMER CANDIDATE, FLORIDA










*Donald Trump doesn't brag about his poll numbers anymore, and no wonder*

Donald Trump used to love nothing more than boasting about his poll numbers: His recitation of them was a staple of his campaign speeches.

There's little to boast about now.
*
A new Washington Post/ABC News survey finds the share of Americans with a negative view of Trump rose sharply since last month.*

Half of Americans polled by CBS News disapproved of his response to the Orlando, Fla., shootings, and just one-quarter approved.

His support has fallen below 40% in several new national polls of the November race. And a survey of a key Midwestern battleground state shows him trailing Hillary Clinton by 9 percentage points among likely voters.

Now Trump has a new line: denouncing "phony polls."  *Read more*

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## SAS

war&peace said:


> No one in my office supports Trump, only three people I met supported him in three months in Atlanta.



I hope he doesn't win. But, I highly doubt they'd tell a Muslim if they were supporting Trump (A known Islamophobe).

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## RabzonKhan

Trump has been shedding lot of crocodile tears, but here’s the truth:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/743842950912737281


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## Desert Fox

*More Than Half of Americans Now Support Trump's Muslim Ban According To Latest Reuters Poll*

*



*

​

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## Desert Fox

*Dear Mr. Trump





*​
*

*​


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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/744599178286768128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/744532685998161920









“Late Show” host Stephen Colbert last night reduced GOP nominee Donald Trump’s self-congratulatory response to the weekend’s mass shooting in Orlando to a simple diagram.

Almost immediately after news of the attacks broke — and well before details became clear — Trump wrote a series of tweets effectively bragging about “being right on radical Islamic terrorism” and saying, “I called it and asked for the ban.” 



Desert Fox said:


> *Dear Mr. Trump
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *​
> *
> 
> *​


Oh, racist Jared Taylor, you and your obsession with the racist’s!?


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Oh, racist Jared Taylor, you and your obsession with the racist’s!?


*You mean to tell me he has something in common with "La Raza" ("The Race")??* 

Actually i never heard of this guy, just came across his video and decided to post it. But you seem to know every racist person it seems, and you support one too  .


----------



## Desert Fox

*Clinton: Destroy Syria for Israel*​




A newly-released Hilary Clinton email confirmed that the Obama administration has deliberately provoked the civil war in Syria as the “best way to help Israel.”

In an indication of her murderous and psychopathic nature, Clinton also wrote that it was the “right thing” to personally threaten Bashar Assad’s family with death.

In the email, released by Wikileaks, then Secretary of State Clinton says that the “best way to help Israel” is to “use force” in Syria to overthrow the government.

The document was one of many unclassified by the US Department of State under case number F-2014-20439, Doc No. C05794498, following the uproar over Clinton’s private email server kept at her house while she served as Secretary of State from 2009 to 2013.

Although the Wikileaks transcript dates the email as December 31, 2000, this is an error on their part, as the contents of the email (in particular the reference to May 2012 talks between Iran and the west over its nuclear program in Istanbul) show that the email was in fact sent on December 31, 2012.

The email makes it clear that it has been US policy from the very beginning to violently overthrow the Syrian government—and specifically to do this because it is in Israel’s interests.




​“The best way to help Israel deal with Iran’s growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad,” Clinton forthrightly starts off by saying.

Even though all US intelligence reports had long dismissed Iran’s “atom bomb” program as a hoax (a conclusion supported by the International Atomic Energy Agency), Clinton continues to use these lies to “justify” destroying Syria in the name of Israel.

She specifically links Iran’s mythical atom bomb program to Syria because, she says, Iran’s “atom bomb” program threatens Israel’s “monopoly” on nuclear weapons in the Middle East.

If Iran were to acquire a nuclear weapon, Clinton asserts, this would allow Syria (and other “adversaries of Israel” such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt) to “go nuclear as well,” all of which would threaten Israel’s interests.

Therefore, Clinton, says, Syria has to be destroyed.

"_Iran’s nuclear program and Syria’s civil war may seem unconnected, but they are. What Israeli military leaders really worry about — but cannot talk about — is losing their nuclear monopoly.


An Iranian nuclear weapons capability would not only end that nuclear monopoly but could also prompt other adversaries, like Saudi Arabia and Egypt, to go nuclear as well. The result would be a precarious nuclear balance in which Israel could not respond to provocations with conventional military strikes on Syria and Lebanon, as it can today._"

"_If Iran were to reach the threshold of a nuclear weapons state, Tehran would find it much easier to call on its allies in Syria and Hezbollah to strike Israel, knowing that its nuclear weapons would serve as a deterrent to Israel responding against Iran itself._"

It is, Clinton continues, the “strategic relationship between Iran and the regime of Bashar Assad in Syria” that makes it possible for Iran to undermine Israel’s security.

This would not come about through a “direct attack,” Clinton admits, because “in the thirty years of hostility between Iran and Israel” this has never occurred, but through its alleged “proxies.”

"_The end of the Assad regime would end this dangerous alliance. 
Israel’s leadership understands well why defeating Assad is now in its interests.
Bringing down Assad would not only be a massive boon to Israel’s security, 
it would also ease Israel’s understandable fear of losing its nuclear monopoly.
Then, Israel and the United States might be able to develop a common view of when the Iranian
program is so dangerous that military action could be warranted._"​
Clinton goes on to asset that directly threatening Bashar Assad “and his family” with violence is the “right thing” to do:

"_In short, the White House can ease the tension that has 
developed with Israel over Iran by doing the right thing in Syria.
With his life and his family at risk, only the threat or use of 
force will change the Syrian dictator Bashar Assad’s mind._"​
The email proves—as if any more proof was needed—that the US government has been the main sponsor of the growth of terrorism in the Middle East, and all in order to “protect” Israel.

It is also a sobering thought to consider that the “refugee” crisis which currently threatens to destroy Europe, was directly sparked off by this US government action as well, insofar as there are any genuine refugees fleeing the civil war in Syria.

In addition, over 250,000 people have been killed in the Syrian conflict, which has spread to Iraq—all thanks to Clinton and the Obama administration backing the “rebels” and stoking the fires of war in Syria.

The real and disturbing possibility that a psychopath like Clinton—whose policy has inflicted death and misery upon millions of people—could become the next president of America is the most deeply shocking thought of all.

Clinton’s public assertion that, if elected president, she would “take the relationship with Israel to the next level,” would definitively mark her, and Israel, as the enemy of not just some Arab states in the Middle East, but of all peace-loving people on earth.

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## Darmashkian

Desert Fox said:


> *Clinton: Destroy Syria for Israel*​
> 
> View attachment 312073​
> A newly-released Hilary Clinton email confirmed that the Obama administration has deliberately provoked the civil war in Syria as the “best way to help Israel.”
> 
> In an indication of her murderous and psychopathic nature, Clinton also wrote that it was the “right thing” to personally threaten Bashar Assad’s family with death.
> 
> In the email, released by Wikileaks, then Secretary of State Clinton says that the “best way to help Israel” is to “use force” in Syria to overthrow the government.
> 
> The document was one of many unclassified by the US Department of State under case number F-2014-20439, Doc No. C05794498, following the uproar over Clinton’s private email server kept at her house while she served as Secretary of State from 2009 to 2013.
> 
> Although the Wikileaks transcript dates the email as December 31, 2000, this is an error on their part, as the contents of the email (in particular the reference to May 2012 talks between Iran and the west over its nuclear program in Istanbul) show that the email was in fact sent on December 31, 2012.
> 
> The email makes it clear that it has been US policy from the very beginning to violently overthrow the Syrian government—and specifically to do this because it is in Israel’s interests.
> 
> View attachment 312072
> ​“The best way to help Israel deal with Iran’s growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad,” Clinton forthrightly starts off by saying.
> 
> Even though all US intelligence reports had long dismissed Iran’s “atom bomb” program as a hoax (a conclusion supported by the International Atomic Energy Agency), Clinton continues to use these lies to “justify” destroying Syria in the name of Israel.
> 
> She specifically links Iran’s mythical atom bomb program to Syria because, she says, Iran’s “atom bomb” program threatens Israel’s “monopoly” on nuclear weapons in the Middle East.
> 
> If Iran were to acquire a nuclear weapon, Clinton asserts, this would allow Syria (and other “adversaries of Israel” such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt) to “go nuclear as well,” all of which would threaten Israel’s interests.
> 
> Therefore, Clinton, says, Syria has to be destroyed.
> 
> "_Iran’s nuclear program and Syria’s civil war may seem unconnected, but they are. What Israeli military leaders really worry about — but cannot talk about — is losing their nuclear monopoly.
> 
> 
> An Iranian nuclear weapons capability would not only end that nuclear monopoly but could also prompt other adversaries, like Saudi Arabia and Egypt, to go nuclear as well. The result would be a precarious nuclear balance in which Israel could not respond to provocations with conventional military strikes on Syria and Lebanon, as it can today._"
> 
> "_If Iran were to reach the threshold of a nuclear weapons state, Tehran would find it much easier to call on its allies in Syria and Hezbollah to strike Israel, knowing that its nuclear weapons would serve as a deterrent to Israel responding against Iran itself._"
> 
> It is, Clinton continues, the “strategic relationship between Iran and the regime of Bashar Assad in Syria” that makes it possible for Iran to undermine Israel’s security.
> 
> This would not come about through a “direct attack,” Clinton admits, because “in the thirty years of hostility between Iran and Israel” this has never occurred, but through its alleged “proxies.”
> 
> "_The end of the Assad regime would end this dangerous alliance.
> Israel’s leadership understands well why defeating Assad is now in its interests.
> Bringing down Assad would not only be a massive boon to Israel’s security,
> it would also ease Israel’s understandable fear of losing its nuclear monopoly.
> Then, Israel and the United States might be able to develop a common view of when the Iranian
> program is so dangerous that military action could be warranted._"​
> Clinton goes on to asset that directly threatening Bashar Assad “and his family” with violence is the “right thing” to do:
> 
> "_In short, the White House can ease the tension that has
> developed with Israel over Iran by doing the right thing in Syria.
> With his life and his family at risk, only the threat or use of
> force will change the Syrian dictator Bashar Assad’s mind._"​
> The email proves—as if any more proof was needed—that the US government has been the main sponsor of the growth of terrorism in the Middle East, and all in order to “protect” Israel.
> 
> It is also a sobering thought to consider that the “refugee” crisis which currently threatens to destroy Europe, was directly sparked off by this US government action as well, insofar as there are any genuine refugees fleeing the civil war in Syria.
> 
> In addition, over 250,000 people have been killed in the Syrian conflict, which has spread to Iraq—all thanks to Clinton and the Obama administration backing the “rebels” and stoking the fires of war in Syria.
> 
> The real and disturbing possibility that a psychopath like Clinton—whose policy has inflicted death and misery upon millions of people—could become the next president of America is the most deeply shocking thought of all.
> 
> Clinton’s public assertion that, if elected president, she would “take the relationship with Israel to the next level,” would definitively mark her, and Israel, as the enemy of not just some Arab states in the Middle East, but of all peace-loving people on earth.



*
In an indication of her murderous and psychopathic nature, Clinton also wrote that it was the “right thing” to personally threaten Bashar Assad’s family with death*.
@Desert Fox - When DT openly calls of killing the families of Terrorists, the world screamed itself hoarse with shick & anger. Now will they do the same for Hillary? Why punish his wife & kids for his crimes?
Will they bother opening their mouths now

@Desert Fox @RabzonKhan - I feel Hillary is just like a Republican when it comes to Foreign Policy & interventionism going by her actions & what I heard about her; is it true?

No wonder so many Bernie Sanders supporters & Far-Left guys hate her

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By the way Corey Lewnandowski has been kicked out. Good for Trump. Bad for HC.

Now John Manafort can take command of the campaign,moderate Trump's statements & thoughts to some extent & get more staff in NY,DC & all over the USA.

& Corey still says that he supporte Trump & calls it an honour working for him.Looks like he really supports DT or DT must have made him sign some legal stuff.

HC will find it tough to make him rat out on DT's operations.



RabzonKhan said:


> If Trump cannot even unite his own party, how the hell can he unite a country as diverse as United States, he is a divider.
> 
> Here is a list of important Republicans who have so far refused to support him:
> 
> 
> View attachment 310948
> 
> Dean Heller SENATOR, NEVADA
> 
> Mark Kirk SENATOR, ILLINOIS
> --------------------------------
> *Donald Trump doesn't brag about his poll numbers anymore, and no wonder*
> 
> Donald Trump used to love nothing more than boasting about his poll numbers: His recitation of them was a staple of his campaign speeches.
> 
> There's little to boast about now.
> *
> A new Washington Post/ABC News survey finds the share of Americans with a negative view of Trump rose sharply since last month.*
> 
> Half of Americans polled by CBS News disapproved of his response to the Orlando, Fla., shootings, and just one-quarter approved.
> 
> His support has fallen below 40% in several new national polls of the November race. And a survey of a key Midwestern battleground state shows him trailing Hillary Clinton by 9 percentage points among likely voters.
> 
> Now Trump has a new line: denouncing "phony polls."  *Read more*



Mark Kirk is in big danger from what I heard. He is re-contesting this time for another term & is finding it tough.

He even voted in support of the Dem. gun control bills & against the Repub. Gun control ones recently.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-votes-illinois-met-06-20-20160620-story.html
------------
Dean Heller's majority was very small. Supporting Trump in a swing state like Nevada is like asking to be defeated.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are still 4 months left, DT's nos. can still go up. But only If he is reigned in by manafort & stops spouting racist stuff or attacking ethnicities.

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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/744876285730627584


*
Trump's economic proposals could produce a prolonged recession*



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/745255665237655553


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/745239426872205312

*Moody's Analytics analysis: Trump presidency would 'significantly' hurt economy*

By Nolan D. McCaskill 06/20/16


*Donald Trump’s presidency would “significantly” weaken the country, driving the U.S. into a “lengthy recession” with nearly 3.5 million job losses and a 7 percent unemployment rate, according to a Moody’s Analytics analysis released Monday.*

The analysis examined the presumptive Republican presidential nominee’s economic plans at face value, based on interviews, speeches and his campaign website. The authors of the report, however, warned that quantifying the real estate mogul’s economic polices “is complicated by their lack of specificity.”

*“Broadly, Mr. Trump’s economic proposals will result in a more isolated U.S. economy. Cross-border trade and immigration will be significantly diminished, and with less trade and immigration, foreign direct investment will also be reduced,” Mark Zandi, Chris Lafakis, Dan White and Adam Ozimek wrote in the report.*

*His policies would also diminish the country’s growth prospects, grow federal government deficits, increase the nation’s debt and finance his “mix of much lower tax revenues and few cuts in spending” with “substantially more government borrowing.”*

“Driven largely by these factors, the economy will be significantly weaker if Mr. Trump’s economic proposals are adopted. Under the scenario in which all his stated policies become law in the manner proposed, the economy suffers a lengthy recession and is smaller at the end of his four-year term than when he took office,” the authors wrote. “By the end of his presidency, there are close to 3.5 million fewer jobs and the unemployment rate rises to as high as 7%, compared with below 5% today. During Mr. Trump’s presidency, the average American household’s after-inflation income will stagnate, and stock prices and real house values will decline.” *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

Hillary Clinton destroys Trump!








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/745361708189782016


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/745291887448363008


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/745292264835014656


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/745292654695583744


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/745296770637438976


----------



## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> *You mean to tell me he has something in common with "La Raza" ("The Race")??*


I don’t like to argue for the sake of arguing, I don’t really have time for that, I already gave you several references (American Heritage Dictionary, Encyclopedia thefreedictionary, University of Oregon, The urbandictionary) but you totally ignored /rejected them, your reply was so hilarious, I mean seriously, since you learned Spanish in school that makes you a bigger authority on Spanish-language than the references? 



> Actually i never heard of this guy, just came across his video and decided to post it. But you seem to know every racist person it seems, and you support one too  .


It is always a good idea to know your enemies and keep an eye on them. 



Desert Fox said:


> *Clinton: Destroy Syria for Israel*​
> 
> View attachment 312073​
> A newly-released Hilary Clinton email confirmed that the Obama administration has deliberately provoked the civil war in Syria as the “best way to help Israel.”
> 
> In an indication of her murderous and psychopathic nature, Clinton also wrote that it was the “right thing” to personally threaten Bashar Assad’s family with death.
> 
> In the email, released by Wikileaks, then Secretary of State Clinton says that the “best way to help Israel” is to “use force” in Syria to overthrow the government.
> 
> The document was one of many unclassified by the US Department of State under case number F-2014-20439, Doc No. C05794498, following the uproar over Clinton’s private email server kept at her house while she served as Secretary of State from 2009 to 2013.
> 
> Although the Wikileaks transcript dates the email as December 31, 2000, this is an error on their part, as the contents of the email (in particular the reference to May 2012 talks between Iran and the west over its nuclear program in Istanbul) show that the email was in fact sent on December 31, 2012.
> 
> The email makes it clear that it has been US policy from the very beginning to violently overthrow the Syrian government—and specifically to do this because it is in Israel’s interests.
> 
> View attachment 312072
> ​“The best way to help Israel deal with Iran’s growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad,” Clinton forthrightly starts off by saying.
> 
> Even though all US intelligence reports had long dismissed Iran’s “atom bomb” program as a hoax (a conclusion supported by the International Atomic Energy Agency), Clinton continues to use these lies to “justify” destroying Syria in the name of Israel.
> 
> She specifically links Iran’s mythical atom bomb program to Syria because, she says, Iran’s “atom bomb” program threatens Israel’s “monopoly” on nuclear weapons in the Middle East.
> 
> If Iran were to acquire a nuclear weapon, Clinton asserts, this would allow Syria (and other “adversaries of Israel” such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt) to “go nuclear as well,” all of which would threaten Israel’s interests.
> 
> Therefore, Clinton, says, Syria has to be destroyed.
> 
> "_Iran’s nuclear program and Syria’s civil war may seem unconnected, but they are. What Israeli military leaders really worry about — but cannot talk about — is losing their nuclear monopoly.
> 
> 
> An Iranian nuclear weapons capability would not only end that nuclear monopoly but could also prompt other adversaries, like Saudi Arabia and Egypt, to go nuclear as well. The result would be a precarious nuclear balance in which Israel could not respond to provocations with conventional military strikes on Syria and Lebanon, as it can today._"
> 
> "_If Iran were to reach the threshold of a nuclear weapons state, Tehran would find it much easier to call on its allies in Syria and Hezbollah to strike Israel, knowing that its nuclear weapons would serve as a deterrent to Israel responding against Iran itself._"
> 
> It is, Clinton continues, the “strategic relationship between Iran and the regime of Bashar Assad in Syria” that makes it possible for Iran to undermine Israel’s security.
> 
> This would not come about through a “direct attack,” Clinton admits, because “in the thirty years of hostility between Iran and Israel” this has never occurred, but through its alleged “proxies.”
> 
> "_The end of the Assad regime would end this dangerous alliance.
> Israel’s leadership understands well why defeating Assad is now in its interests.
> Bringing down Assad would not only be a massive boon to Israel’s security,
> it would also ease Israel’s understandable fear of losing its nuclear monopoly.
> Then, Israel and the United States might be able to develop a common view of when the Iranian
> program is so dangerous that military action could be warranted._"​
> Clinton goes on to asset that directly threatening Bashar Assad “and his family” with violence is the “right thing” to do:
> 
> "_In short, the White House can ease the tension that has
> developed with Israel over Iran by doing the right thing in Syria.
> With his life and his family at risk, only the threat or use of
> force will change the Syrian dictator Bashar Assad’s mind._"​
> The email proves—as if any more proof was needed—that the US government has been the main sponsor of the growth of terrorism in the Middle East, and all in order to “protect” Israel.
> 
> It is also a sobering thought to consider that the “refugee” crisis which currently threatens to destroy Europe, was directly sparked off by this US government action as well, insofar as there are any genuine refugees fleeing the civil war in Syria.
> 
> In addition, over 250,000 people have been killed in the Syrian conflict, which has spread to Iraq—all thanks to Clinton and the Obama administration backing the “rebels” and stoking the fires of war in Syria.
> 
> The real and disturbing possibility that a psychopath like Clinton—whose policy has inflicted death and misery upon millions of people—could become the next president of America is the most deeply shocking thought of all.
> 
> Clinton’s public assertion that, if elected president, she would “take the relationship with Israel to the next level,” would definitively mark her, and Israel, as the enemy of not just some Arab states in the Middle East, but of all peace-loving people on earth.


Oh my goodness, accidentally, you again ended up posting racist propaganda, do you know who runs that website from where you got this third rate propaganda?



Darmashkian said:


> *In an indication of her murderous and psychopathic nature, Clinton also wrote that it was the “right thing” to personally threaten Bashar Assad’s family with death*.
> @Desert Fox - When DT openly calls of killing the families of Terrorists, the world screamed itself hoarse with shick & anger. Now will they do the same for Hillary? Why punish his wife & kids for his crimes?
> Will they bother opening their mouths now


It sounds like a typical Republican propaganda, but I could be wrong, so can you please provide a source? 



> @Desert Fox @RabzonKhan - I feel Hillary is just like a Republican when it comes to Foreign Policy & interventionism going by her actions & what I heard about her; is it true?
> 
> No wonder so many Bernie Sanders supporters & Far-Left guys hate her


To an extent that is true, the mainstream Democrats and Republicans have similar view on important foreign policy issues.


----------



## RabzonKhan

Now, do we really want Mr. Chapter 11 (*Chapter 11 bankruptcy basics*) to run our economy, hell no!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/745588079600218112

Now imagine that, a filthy rich is going to give tax breaks to his fellow filthy rich and we the hard-working Americans will end up with trillions of dollar more debt.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/745695441753358336


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/745696513314127872


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/745688969023791104


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/745693134131179520


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/745693690887307264


----------



## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> since you learned Spanish in school that makes you a bigger authority on Spanish-language


Yeah, more than you for sure.

*"Viva La Raza" ("Long Live The Race")*

*What does Viva la Raza mean?- Spanish Dictionary*




RabzonKhan said:


> It is always a good idea to know your enemies and keep an eye on them.


Your doing a good job keeping any eye on Hillary.




RabzonKhan said:


> Oh my goodness, accidentally, you again ended up posting racist propaganda, do you know who runs that website from where you got this third rate propaganda?


Bring me proof wikileaks.org is racist.

*Clinton: Destroy Syria for Israel*


----------



## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> Yeah, more than you for sure.
> 
> *"Viva La Raza" ("Long Live The Race")*
> 
> *What does Viva la Raza mean?- Spanish Dictionary*


*http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/148238/what-does-viva-la-raza-mean*
So in other words, the translation’s of American Heritage dictionary, Enclopedia thefreedictionary, Urban dictionary and the University of Oregon are all incorrect/wrong, right?

Okay, since you are so determined to call the Latinos racist, please enlighten us, as I’m sure there will be many others who would be interesting to know the answer, what is their race?

https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=La+Raza&submit.x=41&submit.y=26

According to the American Heritage Dictionary La Raza means:

Mexicans or Mexican Americans considered as a group, sometimes extending to all *Spanish-speaking people* of the Americas.

American Spanish, *the people.*


http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/La+Raza+Unida+Party

*Partido* *Nacional* *de La Raza Unida* (National United *Peoples* Party*[1]* or United Race Party*[2]*)


http://blogs.uoregon.edu/mecha/programming/ruyc/

University of Oregon

*Raza Unida Youth Conference *
The motto of Raza Unida Youth Conference is Educación: El Derecho De La Raza! (Education: The Right of the *People*!). 


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Viva la raza


Viva la raza: Long live the *people* (and or race)


Viva mi raza: long live my people



In one of your previous post you said “Gente means strictly people in Spanish”, actually, it can also mean, folk, town and dweller. The point I’m trying to make here is that it is not easy to translate a foreign language into English.

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&...AhVM0WMKHT3BA_4QPAgD#hl=en&q=gente+in+english

noun

*people *personas, gente, pueblo, habitantes, amigos, nación

*folk *gente, pueblo, familia, parientes, nación, unidad

*town *ciudad, pueblo, municipio, población, habitantes, gente

*dweller *habitante, morador, residente, gente, viviente




> Your doing a good job keeping any eye on Hillary.







> Bring me proof wikileaks.org is racist.
> 
> *Clinton: Destroy Syria for Israel*


I was not referring to WikiLeaks, but the long full of propaganda article you posted, where is the link to that article?


----------



## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> So in other words, the translation’s of American Heritage dictionary, Enclopedia thefreedictionary, Urban dictionary and the University of Oregon are all incorrect/wrong, right?
> 
> Okay, since you are so determined to call the Latinos racist, please enlighten us, as I’m sure there will be many others who would be interesting to know the answer, what is their race?
> 
> https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=La+Raza&submit.x=41&submit.y=26
> 
> According to the American Heritage Dictionary La Raza means:
> 
> Mexicans or Mexican Americans considered as a group, sometimes extending to all *Spanish-speaking people* of the Americas.
> 
> American Spanish, *the people.*
> 
> 
> http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/La+Raza+Unida+Party
> 
> *Partido* *Nacional* *de La Raza Unida* (National United *Peoples* Party*[1]* or United Race Party*[2]*)
> 
> 
> http://blogs.uoregon.edu/mecha/programming/ruyc/
> 
> University of Oregon
> 
> *Raza Unida Youth Conference *
> The motto of Raza Unida Youth Conference is Educación: El Derecho De La Raza! (Education: The Right of the *People*!).
> 
> 
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Viva la raza
> 
> 
> Viva la raza: Long live the *people* (and or race)
> 
> 
> Viva mi raza: long live my people
> 
> 
> 
> In one of your previous post you said “Gente means strictly people in Spanish”, actually, it can also mean, folk, town and dweller. The point I’m trying to make here is that it is not easy to translate a foreign language into English.
> 
> https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&...AhVM0WMKHT3BA_4QPAgD#hl=en&q=gente+in+english
> 
> noun
> 
> *people *personas, gente, pueblo, habitantes, amigos, nación
> 
> *folk *gente, pueblo, familia, parientes, nación, unidad
> 
> *town *ciudad, pueblo, municipio, población, habitantes, gente
> 
> *dweller *habitante, morador, residente, gente, viviente


Actions speak louder than words. There are no Chinese, Bangladeshi, Somalian, Pakistani, or Filipino immigrants in the racist organization of* "La Raza" ("The Race")*, thus it is a racist organization.





RabzonKhan said:


> I was not referring to WikiLeaks, but the long full of propaganda article you posted, where is the link to that article?


It's from wikileaks. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it racist.

*Your beloved Hillary murdered thousands of Arabs and Africans directly and indirectly (Iraq, Libya, Syria). But you don't care because realty is you give two hoots about racism. You're only concerned about your gravy train coming to a full stop once Trump gets elected.*


----------



## Kuwaiti Girl



Reactions: Like Like:
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## pakdefender

The question on everyone's mind

Can Trump do a 'Brexit' ?


----------



## Desert Fox

Litesea said:


> *The Donald Trump dove myth: why he’s actually a bigger hawk than Hillary Clinton*
> Hillary Clinton is, without a doubt, a hawkish Democrat. She has been consistently to the interventionist right of the party mainstream on issues like the Iraq War, the Afghanistan surge, and arming the Syrian rebels.
> 
> Donald Trump, by contrast, has criticized the Iraq War and the Libya intervention. He's been skeptical of America's commitments to defend traditional allies in Europe and East Asia, and said the Middle East in general is "one big, fat quagmire" that the US should stay out of.
> 
> This sure makes it sound like Trump is some kind of dovish neo-isolationist, a principled skeptic of military intervention. Clinton seems like a superhawk by contrast. Steve Schmidt, a prominent Republican strategist who ran John McCain's 2008 campaign, put this theory well during an MSNBC appearance in early May: "Donald Trump will be running to the left as we understand it against Hillary Clinton on national security issues."
> 
> But the problem is that the way "we understand" Trump's national security position is bollocks. Trump isn't a leftist, nor is he a pacifist. In fact, Trump is an ardent militarist, who has been proposing actual colonial wars of conquest for years. It's a kind of nationalist hawkishness that we haven't seen much of in the United States since the Cold War — but has supported some of the most aggressive uses of force in American history.
> 
> As surprising as it may seem, Clinton is actually the dove in this race.
> 
> Trump wants to start wars for oil — literally
> 
> 
> (Sovfoto/UIG via Getty Images)
> An Iraqi oil pipeline.
> In the past five years, Trump has consistently pushed one big foreign policy idea: America should steal other countries' oil.
> 
> He first debuted this plan in an April 2011 television appearance, amid speculation that he might run for the GOP nomination. In the interview, Trump seemed to suggest the US should seize Iraqi oil fields and just operate them on its own.
> 
> "In the old days when you won a war, you won a war. You kept the country," Trump said. "We go fight a war for 10 years, 12 years, lose thousands of people, spend $1.5 trillion, and then we hand the keys over to people that hate us on some council." He has repeated this idea for years, saying during one 2013 Fox News appearance, "I’ve said it a thousand times."
> 
> Trump sees this as just compensation for invading Iraq in the first place. "I say we should take it [Iraq's oil] and pay ourselves back," he said in one 2013 speech.
> 
> During the 2016 campaign, Trump has gotten more specific about how exactly he'd "take" Iraq's oil. In a March interview with the Washington Post, he said he would "circle" the areas of Iraq that contain oil and defend them with American ground troops:
> 
> POST: How do you keep it without troops, how do you defend the oil?
> 
> TRUMP: You would... You would, well for that— for that, I would circle it. I would defend those areas.
> 
> POST: With U.S. troops?
> 
> TRUMP: Yeah, I would defend the areas with the oil.
> 
> After US troops seize the oil, Trump suggests, American companies would go in and rebuild the oil infrastructure damaged by bombing and then start pumping it on their own. "You’ll get Exxon to come in there … they’ll rebuild that sucker brand new. And I’ll take the oil," Trump said in a December stump speech.
> 
> Trump loves this idea so much that he'd apply it to Libya as well, telling Bill O'Reilly in April that he'd even send in US ground troops ("as few as possible") to fight off ISIS and secure the country's oil deposits.
> 
> To be clear: Trump's plan is to use American ground troops to forcibly seize the most valuable resource in two different sovereign countries. The word for that is colonialism.
> 
> Trump wants to wage war in the name of explicitly ransacking poorer countries for their natural resources — something that's far more militarily aggressive than anything Clinton has suggested.
> 
> This doesn't really track as "hawkishness" for most people, mostly because it's so outlandish. A policy of naked colonialism has been completely unacceptable in American public discourse for decades, so it seems hard to take Trump's proposals as seriously as, say, Clinton's support for intervening more forcefully in Syria.
> 
> Yet this is what Trump has been consistently advocating for for years. His position hasn't budged an inch, and he in fact appears to have doubled down on it during this campaign. This seems to be his sincere belief, inasmuch as we can tell when a politician is being sincere.
> 
> Trump's dovishness on Libya and Syria is also a myth
> 
> Donald Trump
> (Scott Olson/Getty Images)
> Now, you might say that this kind of hawkishness is offset by Trump's skepticism of wars launched by George Bush and Barack Obama. Maybe Trump would realize that his plans for stealing Iraqi and Libyan oil are beyond the pale once in office, and his more dovish instincts would come to the fore.
> 
> The problem is that Trump's instincts are not actually that dovish. Trump is selling a story of his own prescience about American military failure that we know, for a fact, is false. Indeed, he has a consistent pattern of saying things that sound skeptical of war, while actually endorsing fairly aggressive policies.
> 
> Sometimes this is a matter of outright lying. Throughout the campaign, Trump has trumpeted his opposition to the Libya war, telling Joe Scarborough on May 20 that it was a "disaster" and that "I would have stayed out of Libya."
> 
> Except that's not what he said at the time. In a March 2011 vlog post uncovered by BuzzFeed's Andrew Kaczynski and Christopher Massie, Trump full-throatedly endorsed intervening in the country's civil war — albeit on humanitarian grounds, not for its oil.
> 
> "Qaddafi in Libya is killing thousands of people, nobody knows how bad it is, and we’re sitting around," Trump said. "We should go in, we should stop this guy, which would be very easy and very quick. We could do it surgically, stop him from doing it, and save these lives." In a later interview, he went further, endorsing outright regime change: "if you don’t get rid of Gaddafi, it’s a major, major black eye for this country."
> 
> Shortly after the US intervention in Libya began in March 2011, Trump criticized the Obama administration's approach — for not being aggressive enough. Trump warned that the US was too concerned with supporting the rebels and not trying hard enough to — you guessed it — take the oil.
> 
> "I would take the oil — and stop this baby stuff," Trump declared. "I’m only interested in Libya if we take the oil. If we don’t take the oil, I’m not interested."
> 
> At no point did he express skepticism about Libya becoming a failed state or express concerns that military intervention hadn't been authorized by Congress. Trump's instincts on Libya were for war, full stop. His only criticism was that Obama wasn't selfish enough in how it was prosecuted.
> 
> Today, when it comes to Syria, Trump talks a lot about the risks of military intervention, whereas Clinton has played up our obligation to try to end the conflict. "I would have stayed out of Syria and wouldn’t have fought so much for Assad, against Assad," Trump said. "We’re supposed to fight ISIS, who is fighting Assad."
> 
> But the two of them support more or less the same military escalation in Syria. Both Clinton and Trump have proposed carving out "safe zones" in the country, which means clearing out a chunk of its territory and protecting it from aggressors.
> 
> Trump sees this as the answer to the Syrian refugee crisis — if you can keep the Syrians there, they won't have to come over here (or to Europe). "What I like is build a safe zone, it’s here, build a big, beautiful safe zone and you have whatever it is so people can live, and they’ll be happier," he said in a campaign appearance. "I mean, they’re gonna learn German, they’re gonna learn all these different languages. It’s ridiculous."
> 
> Similarly, both candidates have emphasized the need to bomb ISIS in Iraq and Syria — with Trump famously summarizing his policy as "bomb the shit out of" ISIS. But the way in which Trump plans to wage war on ISIS is far more aggressive — and illegal — than anything Clinton proposed.
> 
> One of Trump's signature proposals is targeting and killing the families of suspected ISIS fighters. "When you get these terrorists," Trump said in December, "you have to take out their families."
> 
> He also wants to bring back torture that's "much tougher" than waterboarding. "Don’t kid yourself, folks. It works, okay? It works. Only a stupid person would say it doesn’t work," he said at a November campaign event. But "if it doesn’t work, they deserve it anyway, for what they’re doing."
> 
> To be clear, both torture and the intentional killing of civilians are crimes under international and US law. Confusingly, Trump said in early March he would not order US military officers to disobey the law. But he subsequently suggested that he'd "like the law expanded" to permit torture.
> 
> So Trump has not only supported most of America's recent wars, he also wants to wage wars in a fashion that's far more violent than what Clinton — or most mainstream politicians — would countenance. There's just no evidence, when you look at actual policy positions rather than rhetoric, that Trump is inclined to be skeptical about using force in the midst of an international crisis.
> 
> The big Iraq War lie
> 
> mission accomplished aircraft carrier
> (Steven Jaffe/AFP/Getty Images)
> One thing that Trump has used to build up his dove credibility, repeatedly, is his alleged opposition to the war in Iraq. "Going into Iraq may have been the worst decision anybody has made, any president has made, in the history of this country," he said during a February GOP debate. "I was against the war when it started."
> 
> This is a lie. In fact, Trump supported the war before it began, and wasn't even consistently against escalation in Iraq after he turned on the initial invasion.
> 
> Take his supposed prewar opposition. Tape from a 2002 episode of The Howard Stern Show, uncovered by BuzzFeed's Kaczynski and Nathan McDermott, proves conclusively that Trump in fact supported the invasion:
> 
> Stern: Are you for invading Iraq?
> 
> Trump: Yeah, I guess so. I wish the first time it was done correctly.
> 
> Why did Trump support the war? He's not very specific in the Howard Stern interview, but he suggested in a speech years later that he was hoping Bush would — wait for it — take Iraq's oil.
> 
> "When I heard that we were first going into Iraq, some very smart people told me, ‘Well, we’re actually going for the oil,’ and I said, ‘All right, I get that.' [But] we didn't take the oil!" Trump said during a 2013 address to the Conservative Political Action Committee conference.
> 
> The first public record of Trump criticizing the decision to invade Iraq, per a LexisNexis search, is in an August 2004 interview with Esquire — around the time Iraq's bloody insurgency had really begun to expand.
> 
> In Trump's defense, many of his comments after 2004 were quite critical of the war. "Look, everything in Washington has been a lie," Trump said in 2007. "Weapons of mass destruction. Was a total lie. A way of attacking Iraq, which [Bush] thought was going to be easy and it turned out it was the exact opposite."
> 
> However, his antiwar stance was hardly consistent. In 2008 he endorsed John McCain — at the time one of the staunchest supporters of Bush's troop surge in Iraq — for president. When Wolf Blitzer asked Trump during a CNN appearance about this contradiction, Trump backed McCain's position:
> 
> TRUMP: Now in terms of the surge, I'm not a fan of the war at all. I'd like to get out as soon as possible. Most people wanted to get out right away. John's idea of the surge, he really wanted it early. He went to win it and get out. Frankly, what he did and even the Democrats are saying it, was right…
> 
> BLITZER: Is it smart for American taxpayers to be shelling out $10 billion a month in Iraq?
> 
> TRUMP: No, I don't think it is and I hope we get out very soon. The difference is I guess John wants to get out with strength rather than weakness. Doesn't want to just leave. He wants to win and leave but he does want to get out and very strong on the fact he wants to get out as soon as we can. But he wants to get out with victory, not with loss.
> 
> It would have been very easy for Trump to say here, "I disagree with the senator on Iraq but believe he's the right choice for some other reason." But he didn't. And while it's kind of hard to parse whether Trump outright supported the surge personally, it's clear from this interview that he's basically fine with the US ramping up its involvement in Iraq, so long as it would someday withdraw.
> 
> The point here is that despite occasional comments during the 2000s where Trump criticized the war, his actual policy positions were consistently hawkish. His criticism of the war reflects a surface-level look at the conflict: The war was obviously going badly, so Trump said it was a failure.
> 
> Trump's criticisms of Iraq and other wars, then, don't reflect a deep view of foreign policy, because he doesn't really have one; he just says what makes sense to him at the time. Sometimes the situation brings out his hawkish impulses, and sometimes it doesn't.
> 
> Today the negative consequences of the US interventions in Iraq in 2003 and Libya in 2011 are pretty obvious — so Trump has decided to make it look like he opposed both of them, even though he really didn't at the time. He has a longstanding habit of saying whatever he thinks will make him look the best or smartest, which can make figuring out what he truly thinks somewhat difficult.
> 
> But when you actually go back and look closely at his positions over the years, it becomes very clear that he has consistently advocated hawkish policies, like colonizing Iraq and Libya for their oil.
> 
> Why we get Trump wrong: His hawkishness doesn't look like what we're used to
> 
> Trump
> (Samuel Corum/Anadolu Agency/Getty)
> (Samuel Corum/Anadolu Agency/Getty)
> I honestly don't know how Trump would govern if elected president. Nobody knows how Trump would govern, because we've never had a president like him before.
> 
> All we have to go on is what he's said and done. And any close examination of that record, beyond his high-profile rhetoric at debates, suggests that Trump is an instinctive advocate for US military force. He seems especially interested in it when it can be used to enrich or protect the United States — taking the oil, killing the terrorists, etc.
> 
> This isn't the kind of hawkishness we're used to. During the Bush administration, hawkishness became equated with neoconservatism. You're a hawk if you support sending in ground troops to fight terrorism or bombing Iran's nuclear program; you're a dove if you oppose those things.
> 
> Trump's instincts are not neoconservative, and he's skeptical of neoconservatism's more grandiose ambitions to remake the world in America's democratic image. That makes him sound dovish by American standards, because we've come to equate dovishness with opposing policies that neocons support.
> 
> But historically, there are lots of other forms of American hawkishness. Trump fits well with one of those — one that Bard College scholar Walter Russell Mead calls the "Jacksonian tradition," after President Andrew Jackson.
> 
> Jacksonians, according to Mead, are basically focused on the interests and reputation of the United States. They are skeptical of humanitarian interventions and wars to topple dictators, because those are idealistic quests removed from the interests of everyday Americans. But when American interests are in question, or failing to fight will make America look weak, Jacksonians are more aggressive than anyone.
> 
> "The Gulf War was a popular war in Jacksonian circles because the defense of the nation’s oil supply struck a chord with Jacksonian opinion," Mead writes. "In the absence of a clearly defined threat to the national interest, Jacksonian opinion is much less aggressive."
> 
> Unlike neoconservatives or liberal interventionists, who have well-fleshed-out foreign policy doctrines, many Jacksonians think about war and peace more instinctively. "With them it is an instinct rather than an ideology — a culturally shaped set of beliefs and emotions rather than a set of ideas," Mead writes. Sound familiar?
> 
> Historically — and here's the important part — the Jacksonian tradition has been partly responsible for a lot of what we see today as American atrocities. Mead explains:
> 
> In the last five months of World War II, American bombing raids claimed the lives of more than 900,000 Japanese civilians—not counting the casualties from the atomic strikes against Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This is more than twice the total number of combat deaths that the United States has suffered in all its foreign wars combined...
> 
> Since the Second World War, the United States has continued to employ devastating force against both civilian and military targets. Out of a pre-war population of 9.49 million, an estimated 1 million North Korean civilians are believed to have died as a result of U.S. actions during the 1950-53 conflict. During the same war, 33,870 American soldiers died in combat, meaning that U.S. forces killed approximately thirty North Korean civilians for every American soldier who died in action. The United States dropped almost three times as much explosive tonnage in the Vietnam War as was used in the Second World War, and something on the order of 365,000 Vietnamese civilians are believed to have been killed during the period of American involvement.
> 
> This is attributable, Mead suggests, to the Jacksonian impulse to wage total war on declared enemies of America. "The first Jacksonian rule of war is that wars must be fought with all available force," Mead writes. "Jacksonian opinion takes a broad view of the permissible targets in war. Again reflecting a very old cultural heritage, Jacksonians believe that the enemy’s will to fight is a legitimate target of war, even if this involves American forces in attacks on civilian lives, establishments and property. "
> 
> Trump's foreign policy ideas sound outlandish today because the Jacksonian tradition has fallen out of fashion. In this post–Cold War world of unquestioned American military dominance, neoconservatives and liberal interventionists' loftier ideals have controlled US foreign policy discourse.
> 
> But Jacksonianism has had a huge influence on American war fighting. The notion that Trump doesn't really want to annex Iraqi oil fields or murder the families of ISIS fighters and is just saying this to be provocative, which some people seem to believe, is belied by the fact that US leaders and generals in the Jacksonian mold have advocated and implemented similarly aggressive policies throughout American history.
> 
> On the campaign trail, Trump routinely cites Gens. George Patton and Douglas MacArthur as foreign policy models — uber-Jacksonians both. Patton wanted to invade the Soviet Union after World War II to head off perceived future threats to America. And President Harry Truman fired MacArthur, despite his strategic genius, for publicly and insubordinately advocating total war against China during the Korean War.
> 
> This is the tradition Trump's views seem to fit into. But while Patton and MacArthur at least had real military expertise and intellectual heft animating their hawkishness, Trump is just a collection of angry impulses. There's no worked-out strategic doctrine here, just an impulse to act aggressively when it seems like America's interests and/or reputation are at stake.


All assumptions. Actions speak louder than words and in this case Hillary has proven herself to be a racist who has murdered countless Muslims directly and indirectly through actions.


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## CorporateAffairs

Hillary = third term for Bill in White House + Sex scandals (probably he may use viagra)

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ultron

Litesea said:


> While Donald has hinted mass deportation of certain ethnicites and religious minorities,war in the middle east for oil,taking out innocent civilians in troubled regions,giving nukes to South Korea and Japan and more oil drilling in Alaska




Trump is against illegal immigration and control of the border. Hillary is a hawk and will start WW3 and get millions killed.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## anon45

CorporateAffairs said:


> Hillary = third term for Bill in White House + Sex scandals (probably he may use viagra)


 
nah, no one doubts that Hillary would be in charge, not Bill. Say what you will about Hillary, but she's not a trophy wife.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ultron

Illegal immigration is the number 1 problem facing the US. And I'm sure legal immigrants from Mexico are also tired of it. Vote Trump! Vote Americania!


----------



## Devil Soul

*Sanders says he will vote for Clinton*
By AFP
Published: June 24, 2016
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Asked on MSNBC whether he would cast his ballot for Clinton, the Vermont senator who waged a surprisingly tough campaign during the primaries said, Yes. PHOTO: AFP

WASHINGTON: Bernie Sanders said on Friday he will vote for Hillary Clinton in the US presidential election in November, bowing to his former rival for the White House but stopping short of a full endorsement.

Asked on _MSNBC_ whether he would cast his ballot for Clinton, the Vermont senator who waged a surprisingly tough campaign during the primaries said, “Yes.”

*Clinton, Trump trade blows in sharpening US election battle*

“I think the issue right here is I’m gonna do everything I can to defeat Donald Trump,” Sanders said, referring to the billionaire businessman who is the presumptive Republican presidential nominee.

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## ultron

Ideologically, Sanders is closer to Trump than he is to Hillary. Hillary is a war hawk. Sanders and Trump are not.


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## Desert Fox

Litesea said:


> While Donald has hinted mass deportation of certain ethnicites and religious minorities,war in the middle east for oil,taking out innocent civilians in troubled regions,giving nukes to South Korea and Japan and more oil drilling in Alaska


Like i said, *ACTIONS* speak louder than *WORDS*.

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## Desert Fox

Litesea said:


> Well Donald too supported Iraq invasion he just have an old habit of making u turns on issues
> 
> If his statements are a reflection of his foreign policy he will not decrease but increase US adventurism in the Middle East and South East Asia


Let's wait and see. Hillary has the blood of millions of people on her hands (*including Pakistanis*), it's a shame that you would support such a person.


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## C130

I am against Donald Trump for President after watching the fallout from Brexit.

I like the guy, and he is a true patriot and loves this country, but the fallout from winning would just be too much.

he would be just too decisive and he wouldn't be able to get anything done

but I also don't like Hillary and I actually had a crush on the First Lady when I was in the 3rd or 4th grade 

but man is she corrupt and evil.

it's all going downhill no matter what, but I'd rather it' be a slow decline that a catastrophic destruction like the EU.


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## Desert Fox

Litesea said:


> The other candidate will hve an even more hawkish policy the only American candidates i had a favourable opinion of were Kasish and Sanders but both got rejected by the US population so know i support the lesser evil


Judging from Hillary's past record we know she's not the lesser of the two evils.


The only reason why most Pakistanis are so worried about Trump winning is because they fear they won't be able to come to America or bring their relatives over.


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## ChineseTiger1986

C130 said:


> I am against Donald Trump for President after watching the fallout from Brexit.
> 
> I like the guy, and he is a true patriot and loves this country, but the fallout from winning would just be too much.
> 
> he would be just too decisive and he wouldn't be able to get anything done
> 
> but I also don't like Hillary and I actually had a crush on the First Lady when I was in the 3rd or 4th grade
> 
> but man is she corrupt and evil.
> 
> it's all going downhill no matter what, but I'd rather it' be a slow decline that a catastrophic destruction like the EU.



Populism is good, let's make America great again!

And let's kick out those non-white immigrants to where they belonged!

Hell Yeah!!!


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## C130

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Populism is good, let's make America great again!
> 
> And let's kick out those non-white immigrants to where they belonged!
> 
> Hell Yeah!!!
> 
> View attachment 313579



illegal alien and immigrant are two different things.

how would you feel if if more than 500,000 people from South East Asian came into China illegally every year 


I'm for immigration, "legal" in some parts of the world if you come illegally to a country you face prison or even death.

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## ChineseTiger1986

C130 said:


> illegal alien and immigrant are two different things.
> 
> how would you feel if if more than 500,000 people from South East Asian came into China illegally every year
> 
> 
> I'm for immigration, "legal" in some parts of the world if you come illegally to a country you face prison or even death.



Believe me, the populism represents the democracy in its 100% pure form.

Since the US is the self-proclaimed largest democratic country, and it should have adopted the populism instead of the rigged democracy, the rigged election, and the rigged candidates you have right now.

Most of Trump's supporters want all non-whites to be out of America, and the White America would be better without them.

If they win the coming election in this November, then the entire country should follow their lead.


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## Desert Fox

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> If they win the coming election in this November, then the entire country should follow their lead.


lol, that's not gonna happen. A lot of people who oppose Trump said they will move to Canada if he wins (*interestingly they don't want to move to Mexico for some reason, but to an even Whiter country* ).


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## C130

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Believe me, the populism represents the democracy in its 100% pure form.
> 
> Since the US is the self-proclaimed largest democratic country, and it should have adopted the populism instead of the rigged democracy, the rigged election, and the rigged candidates you have right now.
> 
> , and the White America would be better without them.
> 
> If they win the coming election in this November, then the entire country should follow their lead.




*Most of Trump's supporters want all non-whites to be out of America
*
that's a lie buddy.


and i am not a fan of populism either.

just look at what populism has done to Venezuela

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## Anubis

I think Gary Johnson would make a good candidate too!


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## ChineseTiger1986

C130 said:


> *Most of Trump's supporters want all non-whites to be out of America
> *
> that's a lie buddy.
> 
> 
> and i am not a fan of populism either.
> 
> just look at what populism has done to Venezuela



Well, most people in America are getting tired of the rigged democracy, so let's try the populism instead!

Vote Trump!!!

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## C130

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Well, most people in America are getting tired of the rigged democracy, so let's try the populism instead!
> 
> Vote Trump!!!




I'll pass. I rather have Clinton has President and I think she'll be a more manly President than Justin Trudeau

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## ChineseTiger1986

Desert Fox said:


> lol, that's not gonna happen. A lot of people who oppose Trump said they will move to Canada if he wins (*interestingly they don't want to move to Mexico for some reason, but to an even Whiter country* ).



Just many people didn't predict the outcome that the Brexit gonna win.

Guess what? Trump got a good chance to win the November election with the growing populism in America.

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## Styx

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Believe me, the populism represents the democracy in its 100% pure form.


a Chinese criticizing the democratic process in the US is a bit rich. 

painting all Trump supporters as racist white nationalists is also wrong, you have fallen victim to the overload of negative msm propaganda about him.

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## ChineseTiger1986

C130 said:


> I'll pass. I rather have Clinton has President and I think she'll be a more manly President than Justin Trudeau



All Canadian politicians are pro-America whether from the left/center/right, so why bother so much?


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## Desertfalcon

As I am a #NeverTrump conservative Republican Party member, I will not be voting for either Sen. Clinton or Mr. Trump as I loath both of them. I am a conservative and not a libertarian so voting for Gov. Gary Johnson is out. I will be voting for Mr. Darrell Castle, nominee of the far-right Constitution Party. Of course he can't win but I will at least be able to vote for a candidate for president who has integrity and is a gentleman, something Mr. Trump is lacking in. 

http://www.castlereport.us/who-is-darrell-castle/

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## Styx

Anubis said:


> I think Gary Johnson would make a good candidate too!


I like him and the libertarian ideals (wish our democracy was mature enough to have evolved into that line of thinking)

but open borders is part of their agenda, not going to work in the current climate there with all the terror threats etc, he was also CEO of a weed products company till not that long ago and was actually using their products till a couple months ago. 

might've worked in Jamaica but sadly they wont let a pothead into the white house


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## ChineseTiger1986

Geralt said:


> a Chinese criticizing the democratic process in the US is a bit rich.
> 
> painting all Trump supporters as racist white nationalists is also wrong, you have fallen victim to the overload of negative msm propaganda about him.



They are Chinese-Americans, not PRC citizens.

No one really cares who they want to support. And for the PRC citizens, both Clinton and Trump are the same for China.


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## Styx

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They are Chinese-Americans, not PRC citizens.
> 
> No one really cares who they want to support, and for the PRC citizens, both Clinton and Trump are the same for China.


of course they're Chinese Americans, and they (some of them) will be voting Trump.

and sure, apart from certain troubled areas of the world hit by islamic extremism, it makes no difference who the Americans elect.


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## Anubis

Geralt said:


> I like him and the libertarian ideals (wish our democracy was mature enough to have evolved into that line of thinking)
> 
> but open borders is part of their agenda, not going to work in the current climate there with all the terror threats etc, he was also CEO of a weed products company till not that long ago and was actually using their products till a couple months ago.
> 
> might've worked in Jamaica but sadly they wont let a pothead into the white house


Well Obama was a pothead too..I like the libertarian ideas too...but some of them I don't think are implementable right away...but a good course to take for the long term future.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Geralt said:


> of course they're Chinese Americans, and they (some of them) will be voting Trump.
> 
> and sure, apart from certain troubled areas of the world hit by islamic extremism, it makes no difference who the Americans elect.



Unlike many countries in the world, China will never cast its hope on America's candidates, but only on our own effort and diligence.

The Chinese media actually has paid very little attention on the American election in 2016. They seldom talk it for fun about the US democracy as some kind of political circus. It is fun to watch, but not fun to implement.


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## Styx

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Unlike many the countries in the world, China will never cast its hope on America's candidates, but only on our own effort and diligence.
> 
> The Chinese media actually has paid very little attention on the American election in 2016. They seldom talk it for fun about the US democracy as some kind of political circus. It is fun to watch, but not fun to implement.


and which countries in the world have "cast their hope on America's candidates" ? 

not surprised, the state run Chinese media probably does not want it's controlled population to see what dramatic changes the will of the people (democracy) can affect in other countries.


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## Devil Soul

*Clinton regains double-digit lead over Trump: Reuters/Ipsos poll*
By Reuters
Published: June 25, 2016
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Democratic US presidential candidate Hillary Clinton speaks during a campaign event at the North Carolina State Fairgrounds in Raleigh, North Carolina, June 22, 2016. PHOTO: REUTERS.

NEW YORK: Democratic presidential contender Hillary Clinton regained a double-digit lead over Republican rival Donald Trump this week, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released on Friday.

The June 20-24 poll showed that 46.6 percent of likely American voters supported Clinton while 33.3 percent supported Trump. Another 20.1 percent said they would support neither candidate.

Trump had enjoyed a brief boost in support following the June 12 mass shooting in Orlando, Florida, as he doubled down on his pledge to ban Muslims from entering the country, cutting Clinton’s lead to nine points.

*Clinton’s lead over Trump slips after Florida shooting*

But Trump’s rise in popularity appeared to be only temporary, unlike his lasting surge among the Republican field last year after the attacks in Paris and in San Bernardino, California.

Clinton’s 13.3 percentage point lead is about the same as she had before the Orlando attack.

Trump’s slip this week came as he struggled to show that he can keep up with a Clinton campaign apparatus that has dwarfed his in size and funding.

*Trumped by candidate’s rhetoric, Republican lawmakers at a loss for words*

Campaign finance disclosures released earlier this week showed Trump started June with a war chest of just $1.3 million, a fraction of Clinton’s $42 million. Trump sought to ease concerns among his allies by saying that he could tap his “unlimited” personal wealth if needed, and also by bolstering efforts to raise money through fundraising events and online donations.

Meanwhile, Republican leaders including House of Representatives Speaker Paul Ryan and Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker continued to express reservations about their new standard bearer, who has angered some in the party with his fiery rhetoric.

Ryan and Walker both said over the past week that they felt Republicans should follow their “conscience” when deciding to support the party’s likely nominee, instead of urging party members to support him.

*Clinton says Trump dangerous, unfit to be commander in chief*

The poll only captured some of the voter reaction to Britain’s decision in Thursday’s referendum to exit the European Union, a move that some pundits say suggests Trump’s insurgent candidacy has tapped into a broad and powerful anti-globalisation wave sweeping Western countries.

The Reuters/Ipsos poll was conducted online and included interviews with 1,201 likely voters in all 50 states. It has a credibility interval, a measure of accuracy, of 3.3 percentage points.

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## RabzonKhan

I'm lovin' it  

*Donald Trump’s bad month just got worse, because Sanders backers just rallied to Clinton*

By Aaron Blake June 26 2016

*Donald Trump would like for Bernie Sanders supporters to ditch the Democratic Party and support him. *There is very little evidence that they will do that, mind you, but it's certainly possible that they might just stay home — which would help Trump.

*Well, we have some bad news for the Trump campaign. Sanders supporters aren't just rallying around Clinton; they're doing it rather quickly. And it's a big reason Clinton just extended her lead over Trump into the double digits, 51 percent to 39 percent.*

A new Washington Post-ABC News poll shows that Sanders backers, who polls have shown were reluctant to jump over to Clinton and even flirted with supporting Trump, are coming home faster than we might have expected.

*Last month, 20 percent of Sanders supporters said they would back Trump over Clinton in the general election. This month, that figure is down to 8 percent.*

*And the poll was conducted before, we would note, Sanders began saying last week that he would support Clinton over Trump in the general election.* (Even as he's not endorsing Clinton and is still technically a candidate, Sanders said his supporters would and should not vote for a "bigot" like Trump.)

*When asked on MSNBC June 24 if he would vote for rival Hillary Clinton, Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders answered, "Yes." Sanders says he's focused on beating Republican Donald Trump. (Reuters)*

In a way, this was expected. Clinton backers in 2008, after all, eventually came around to Barack Obama's candidacy and overwhelmingly supported him in the general election. We've used this as our baseline in comparing how quickly Sanders supporters might come around to Clinton in 2016.

But here's the thing: It took them a while. In June 2008, 20 percent of Clinton backers said they'd go for John McCain. In July, it was 22 percent, then 18 percent in August and 19 percent in September. It finally dropped to 14 percent in October.

*Well, it's June 2016, and that same figure this time is down to 8 percent already. What's more, the 81 percent of Sanders backers who are now behind Clinton is a higher number than in any poll of 2008 Clinton backers who rallied to Obama. The high that year was 74 percent, in October.*

And, really, the idea that Clinton backers would cross over for McCain was probably more plausible in the first place. She was the more moderate candidate in the Democratic primary, so it wasn't unreasonable to think that her more moderate supporters might go for a moderate Republican such as McCain.

Sanders was decidedly not the moderate option in the 2016 Democratic primary. He does share some populist tendencies with Trump — which Trump has tried to leverage to get Sanders supporters to join him — but it was always a somewhat fanciful effort by Trump to woo them.

*Indeed, as a Pew poll last week showed, Sanders supporters were more anti-Republican Party than Clinton backers. About 7 in 10 of them, in fact, said the Republican Party makes them "afraid" — vs. 55 percent of Clinton supporters.*

That was never really a recipe for a big crossover vote. And this poll suggests that possibility has been foreclosed.


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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/746406051747008513

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/746099306390659072


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## RabzonKhan

Because of Trump:







*Former Bush Treasury secretary: 'I'll be voting for Hillary Clinton'*

By Nolan D. McCaskil 06/24/16

There goes another one.

Hank Paulson, chairman of the Paulson Institute and a former Treasury secretary in George W. Bush’s administration, will neither vote for Donald Trump in November nor abstain, he wrote in an op-ed published Friday in The Washington Post.

“I’ll be voting for Hillary Clinton with the hope that she can bring Americans together to do the things necessary to strengthen our economy, our environment and our place in the world,” Paulson wrote. “To my Republican friends: I know I’m not alone.”

Paulson is the latest George W. Bush administration official to not only reject the Republican Party’s presumptive presidential nominee, but to declare support for Clinton. Former Bush Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage told POLITICO last week he would vote for Clinton.

*With Trump as the party’s standard-bearer, “we are witnessing a populist hijacking of one of the United States’ great political parties,” the former Goldman Sachs CEO wrote. “The GOP, in putting Trump at the top of the ticket, is endorsing a brand of populism rooted in ignorance, prejudice, fear and isolationism. This troubles me deeply as a Republican, but it troubles me even more as an American. Enough is enough. It’s time to put country before party and say it together: Never Trump*.” *Read more*



*
Republicans Are Among Business Leaders Backing Clinton*

*In addition to active Democrats such as Facebook's Sheryl Sandberg and Google's Eric Schmidt, Clinton is being backed by some business leaders who are long-time Republicans.*

Dozens of business leaders, including a handful of Republicans, endorsed Hillary Clinton on Thursday, as her campaign seeks to challenge Donald Trump’s assertions that he is the best candidate for U.S. businesses.

Republicans backing Clinton include Dan Akerson, former chairman and chief executive officer of General Motors Co., and Jim Cicconi, a former Reagan and George H.W. Bush White House staffer who is a Washington executive at AT&T Services Inc.

*Cicconi has supported every Republican candidate for president since 1976 but can’t do the same this year because “it's vital to put our country's well-being ahead of party,” he said in a statement. “Hillary Clinton is experienced, qualified, and will make a fine president. The alternative, I fear, would set our nation on a very dark path.”*

The _Wall Street Journal_ reported the endorsements early Thursday.

Also endorsing Clinton is Hamid R. Moghadam, a Republican who is chairman and CEO of real estate investment trust Prologis, Inc. “Our country is about tolerance and inclusion and that's why, as a lifelong Republican supporter, I endorse Hillary Clinton for president in this election,” he said in a statement. *Read more*


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## Tiger Genie

I lean republican normally but I don't think I can bring myself to vote for Trump - he seems to be a better crook than Hilary Clinton. But Clinton sounds plain dumb. So that is the choice we have this time: a dangerous crook who has somehow managed to keep out of jail or this useless woman.

Atleast voting for Hillary will bring in the first woman to presidency.


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## anon45

Tiger Genie said:


> I lean republican normally but I don't think I can bring myself to vote for Trump - he seems to be a better crook than Hilary Clinton. But Clinton sounds plain dumb. So that is the choice we have this time: a dangerous crook who has somehow managed to keep out of jail or this useless woman.
> 
> Atleast voting for Hillary will bring in the first woman to presidency.




Don't you have those backwords? By all accounts Hillary is a policy wonk, as she had to be to do her job. When it comes to foreign relations there are few more qualified in either experience or depth of knowledge. That said, alot of actions she has done, whether on purpose or acidentally, are troubling and some call her a crook who should be in jail / will be indicted (I don't count on that).

Donald has no qualifications, no experience, and no clue.

http://www.npr.org/2016/04/28/47606...ars-provide-insight-into-how-she-might-govern



> While Clinton's particular set of skills has not wowed on the campaign trail, there was a time and place where her personality and governing style were widely praised, even among her political opponents, the United States Congress.
> 
> Republicans I interviewed who served with Clinton during her eight years on Capitol Hill say they were often surprised by how easy she was to work with. *She had real policy expertise, and she knew how to cut a deal. *Former Virginia Republican Sen. John Warner was impressed with her diligence on the Armed Services Committee. He was the chairman when Clinton joined the panel.
> 
> JOHN WARNER: When we had issues, she studied. She was well-prepared, almost without exception. She did her homework, and she was well-prepared. *When she spoke, she spoke quite intelligently and factually and persuasively.*


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## Echo_419

Desertfalcon said:


> As I am a #NeverTrump conservative Republican Party member, I will not be voting for either Sen. Clinton or Mr. Trump as I loath both of them. I am a conservative and not a libertarian so voting for Gov. Gary Johnson is out. I will be voting for Mr. Darrell Castle, nominee of the far-right Constitution Party. Of course he can't win but I will at least be able to vote for a candidate for president who has integrity and is a gentleman, something Mr. Trump is lacking in.
> 
> http://www.castlereport.us/who-is-darrell-castle/



Pragmatism disagrees


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## Desertfalcon

Echo_419 said:


> Pragmatism disagrees


I'm sure it does, but my vote cannot violate my conscience. I will not vote for a bully. I will not vote for a jackass who mocks disabled people, women, minorities, etc., indeed anyone who disagrees with him, like some spoiled 12 year old brat. I will not vote for a man who insults America's heroes who endured torture in POW camps for years and years, while _The Donald_ got out of serving his country by his rich father's ability to provide college deferments and a medical exemption from the Trump family doctor for a knee or foot ailment (that Trump could not remember the details of when asked by reporters), and then was known for regular tennis, squash and 18 holes of golf on a weekly basis on said injury while the real patriots were serving their country in Vietnam. He is unfit to be president. He is unfit to be commander in chief.

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## Echo_419

Desertfalcon said:


> I'm sure it does, but my vote cannot violate my conscience. I will not vote for a bully. I will not vote for a jackass who mocks disabled people, women, minorities, etc., indeed anyone who disagrees with him, like some spoiled 12 year old brat. I will not vote for a man who insults America's heroes who endured torture in POW camps for years and years, while _The Donald_ got out of serving his country by his rich father's ability to provide college deferments and a medical exemption from the Trump family doctor for a knee or foot ailment (that Trump could not remember the details of when asked by reporters), and then was known for regular tennis, squash and 18 holes of golf on a weekly basis on said injury while the real patriots were serving their country in Vietnam. He is unfit to be president. He is unfit to be commander in chief.




Men go to great lengths to keep their conscience clean, I guess 1 lost vote won't do any harm


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## T-72M1

Desertfalcon said:


> I will not vote for a man who insults America's heroes who endured torture in POW camps for years and years....



oh come on, he went after neo-con politician John McCain and his record of pro jihadi and pro nazi policies all over the world

with the Syrian "rebels"






and in Ukraine






with Oleh Tyahnybok





etc

not this guy:






I also loved how Trump went viciously after the rest of the Bush admin when not even democrats have dared to attack them in the way that he did.

I think Trump is more of an independent than partisan candidate but he realized that a true indy or green party or libertarian, constitution party etc would never have a real shot so he used the republican platform because he vibes more with the right (billionaire businessman, surprise, surprise.. )

just propped up his evangelical credentials too lol

the rest of your post reeks of leftist tripe too, afaict, Trump = not racist, not sexist, not misogynist, nor is he any of the other charges thrown at him

a populist/nationalist, yes, and one can debate the merits/demerits of that but the rest of the "racist" bs ? no way.


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## RabzonKhan

Desertfalcon said:


> I'm sure it does, but my vote cannot violate my conscience. I will not vote for a bully. I will not vote for a jackass who mocks disabled people, women, minorities, etc., indeed anyone who disagrees with him, like some spoiled 12 year old brat. I will not vote for a man who insults America's heroes who endured torture in POW camps for years and years, while _The Donald_ got out of serving his country by his rich father's ability to provide college deferments and a medical exemption from the Trump family doctor for a knee or foot ailment (that Trump could not remember the details of when asked by reporters), and then was known for regular tennis, squash and 18 holes of golf on a weekly basis on said injury while the real patriots were serving their country in Vietnam. He is unfit to be president. He is unfit to be commander in chief.


You said that very well, and I agree. All the dumb things he said in the Republican primary could have ended a normal candidate’s campaign, but I think his gaffes are now badly hurting him with the general election voters, he consistently loses to Hillary in head to head polls.

Welcome back.

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## Desertfalcon

T-72M1 said:


> the rest of your post reeks of leftist tripe too



_Leftist tripe?  _Apparently, you missed where I said I was supporting Darrell Castle and the *Constitution Party, *that or you are unaware of who they are...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Party_(United_States) 

And had Trump ONLY been referring to Sen. McCain's military service, it would have been one thing..........but he didn't. The jackass included all POW's.


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## T-72M1

Desertfalcon said:


> Apparently, you missed where I said I was supporting Darrell Castle and the *Constitution Party, *that or you are unaware of who they are...
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Party_(United_States)





T-72M1 said:


> I think Trump is more of an independent than partisan candidate but he realized that a true indy or green party or libertarian, *constitution party *etc would never have a real shot so he used the republican platform because he vibes more with the right



he's also on record being pro gun/god/life/military/vets, with his SCOTUS picks and on other RW issues etc

for a right leaning individual, might you be throwing your vote away here ?


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## Jaanbaz

If Trump gets elected you will have to get used to this a lot, but then again I don't live in the USA so why do I care? 

My best wishes to Trump supporters, may Trump become your ultimate saviour and leader like Putin is to Russia.

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## Desertfalcon

T-72M1 said:


> or a right leaning individual, might you be throwing your vote away here ?



Most definitely, but I get to keep my integrity.


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## RabzonKhan

*Republican Brent Scowcroft backs Clinton*

By Nicole Gaouette, CNN

(CNN)Hillary Clinton, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, received an endorsement Wednesday from a heavyweight foreign policy adviser to Republican presidents.

*Brent Scowcroft, who served as National Security Adviser to Presidents George H. W. Bush and Gerald Ford, and who worked in the White House of Presidents Richard Nixon and George W. Bush, said Clinton "brings truly unique experience and perspective to the White House."*

His endorsement was released hours after the Republican presumptive nominee Donald Trump launched a broad attack on Clinton's experience, honesty and foreign policy experience in a 40-minute speech. Scowcroft directly rebutted Trump's claim that Clinton does not have the temperament to lead, citing her experience working on high-pressure issues such as Iran and Israel.

*"She brings deep expertise in international affairs and a sophisticated understanding of the world, which I believe are essential for the commander-in-chief," Scowcroft said.*

His backing follows that of another prominent Republican in national security circles. Richard Armitage, who served in the State and Defense Departments under George W. Bush and President Ronald Reagan, announced last week that he will vote for Clinton over Trump. *Read more*



*Now That Trump Is The Nominee, These Republicans Say They’re Voting For Hillary*

BY AARON RUPAR

In short, the #NeverTrump movement has failed. And as that failure became abjectly clear Tuesday night, some Republicans announced they’ll be supporting Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton should she continue down the path toward her party’s nomination.

Mark Salter, a former top aide to Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), suggested in a tweet that he’ll be breaking with his party and supporting Clinton come November. *Read more*


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## Tiger Genie

anon45 said:


> Don't you have those backwords? By all accounts Hillary is a policy wonk, as she had to be to do her job. When it comes to foreign relations there are few more qualified in either experience or depth of knowledge. That said, alot of actions she has done, whether on purpose or acidentally, are troubling and some call her a crook who should be in jail / will be indicted (I don't count on that).
> 
> Donald has no qualifications, no experience, and no clue.
> 
> http://www.npr.org/2016/04/28/47606...ars-provide-insight-into-how-she-might-govern



See therein is the problem - Clinton imo was a very ineffective sec.of state and has not exhibited a single fiber of conviction about anything or moral strength. Her only qual imo is she is married to Bill Clinton who all jokes aside was an effective smart prez.

Trump - I will go a step further, he has negative quals, no clue and negative experience. What's worse, he has single handedly taken the Americal politics a couple notches down with his boorish behavior and childish name calling.


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## RabzonKhan

*Trevor Noah* ridiculed *Donald Trump* tonight for fostering anti-Muslim sentiments in his speech yesterday.

He compared the speech delivered by “an expired bottle of Sunny Delight” to his Democratic opponent, “the She-Wolf of Wall Street.”

Noah said that *Hillary Clinton* exhibits “compassion, resolve, and restraint” on terrorism, whereas Trump is all about “paranoia [and] xenophobia.”

He declared that Trump is “fucking crazy dangerous” and lied so much in that speech.

Watch above, via Comedy Central.






Lori Mae Hernandez: 13-Year-Old Stand-Up Owns Donald Trump - America's Got Talent 2016 Auditions


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## ultron

Trump Hillary neck to neck.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/29/politics/quinnipiac-poll-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/index.html


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## CorporateAffairs

Trump will beat Hillary hands down. Mark my words.

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## RabzonKhan

I can understand, Trump supporters are desperate, but sorry, one poll does not make a big difference, the fact of the matter is, Hillary has been winning him head to head polls since June 1, 2015:



POLL CHART
*2016 General Election: Trump vs. Clinton*









Clinton *46.0*%

Trump *39.0*%

Undecided *11.0*%

Other *4.0*%



CorporateAffairs said:


> Trump will beat Hillary hands down. Mark my words.


Based on what, your gut feelings?


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## RabzonKhan

French Pres. is absolutely right, trumps isolationist policies will weaken the Western world, and will make Putin’s Russia great again.






French President Francois Hollande gives a press conference on June 29 at the European Union headquarters in Brussels. | Getty

*French President Hollande endorses Clinton*

By Louis Nelson 06/30/16

French President François Hollande endorsed Hillary Clinton in a newspaper article published Thursday, likening Republican Donald Trump’s nativist bombast to anti-immigrant movements across Europe.

Hollande said “the best thing the Democrats can do is to get Hillary Clinton elected” in the article, published Thursday in France’s Les Echos newspaper. The socialist president also said electing Trump “would complicate relations between Europe and the U.S." and agreed with the notion that it would be dangerous.

Trump’s isolationist rhetoric likely sounds familiar to Hollande, who faces strong opposition from Marine Le Pen, the outspoken leader of France’s National Front party. Le Pen, a vocal immigration opponent, has called for France to follow in the footsteps of the United Kingdom and leave the European Union. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/747924647790936064


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/748323908072448000


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## RabzonKhan

One more important Republican supports Hillary for president. 

Kori Schake is a fellow at the Hoover Institution. She was the director for defense strategy and requirements on the National Security Council staff, and deputy director for policy planning in the State Department of the George W. Bush administration. 



*Why Brexit Persuaded Me to Vote for Hillary Clinton*

By Kori Schake July 01, 2016

*Last Friday, people across the United Kingdom woke up shocked to learn that their nation had actually voted to leave the European Union. More than a million people now reportedly would like to change their vote from “leave” to “remain”; more than 3 million signed a petition for a second referendum. EU institutions and major corporations based in London announced they would move operations and jobs from Britain to EU countries.*

*My reaction was a little different: I decided to endorse Hillary Clinton for president.*

*It wasn’t an easy decision. As a conservative, I find Hillary Clinton stands for the opposite of a number of things I believe strongly:* that our government is involved in too many areas of our lives, that its profligacy is spending our country into bankruptcy, and that it very often makes problems worse because it knows too little to keep pace with change. Clinton has a seemingly inexhaustible list of government programs to address every social concern, and no conceivable way to pay for it all.

So, I have deep misgivings about a Clinton presidency, but the anguish of British voters who cast a protest vote thinking it wouldn’t matter — that their vote wouldn’t be decisive — convinced me that something much bigger is at stake in this election. The unthinkable, I realized, was actually possible this year. In the British referendum, major polling firms had the “Remain” vote leading by as much as 8 percent. As little as five hours before results were announced, betting markets gave Remain a 96 percent chance of success. *And I realized I didn’t want to wake up on November 9 to find Donald Trump elected president and wish I had done more to prevent it.*

As one of the signatories of the national security experts’ “never Trump” letter, *I genuinely believe the erratic statements Donald Trump has made would be disastrous if adopted as American policies.* His candidacy is itself bad for our country: after watching him win primary after primary, our allies have already begun questioning the durability of long-standing American commitments. Governments reliant on our security guarantees, already worried by President Barack Obama’s passivity in “leading from behind,” see the presumptive Republican nominee taking even more reckless stances. They’re understandably hedging their bets. Regaining the confidence of America’s friends in the world will be the work of more than one presidency.

It is impossible to imagine Donald Trump doing the things an American leader is called to do in an insecure world: steadying an American ally after a terrorist attack (as President Bush did after the 7/7 attacks in London), *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

*How the President of the United States is Elected
*
Start with the Constitution. The basic process of selecting the President of the United States is spelled out in the U.S. Constitution, and it has been modified by the 12th, 22nd, and 23rd amendments. Many additional steps have been added over the years, by custom and by state law -- the process has changed quite a bit over time.

Who Can Run? The President and Vice-President are elected every four years. They must be at least 35 years of age, they must be native-born citizens of the United States, and they must have been residents of the U.S. for at least 14 years. (Also, a person cannot be elected to a third term as President.)

*How Do the Political Parties Choose Their Candidates?* That's up to the political parties. Most political parties hold conventions, which are large meetings attended by "delegates." Some delegates are selected by state "primary" elections, some are selected by state caucuses (very much like primaries, except with public voting instead of secret ballots), and some are chosen for their prominence in the party. A majority of delegate votes is needed to win the party's nomination. In most cases, the delegates let their chosen presidential candidate select a vice-presidential candidate.

*Candidates for President and Vice-President Run Together.* In the general election, each candidate for President runs together with a candidate for Vice-President on a "ticket." Voters select one ticket to vote for; they can't choose a presidential candidate from one ticket and a vice-presidential candidate from another ticket.

*The Electoral College.* The national presidential election actually consists of a separate election in each of the 50 states and the District of Columbia; in these 51 elections, the voters are really voting for "electors" pledged to one of the tickets. These electors make up the "Electoral College." (In most cases, the names of the electors aren't written on the ballot; instead the ballot lets voters choose among "Electors for" each of the tickets, naming the presidential and vice-presidential candidates each slate of electors is pledged to.)

Each state has the same number of electors as it has senators and representatives (there are two senators from each state, but the number of representatives depends on the state population in the most recent census). The District of Columbia, although it isn't a state, also participates in presidential elections -- it currently has three electors.

*The People in Each State Vote for Electors in the Electoral College.* In most of the states, and also in the District of Columbia, the election is winner-take-all; whichever ticket receives the most votes in that state (or in D.C.) gets all the electors. (The only exceptions are Maine and Nebraska. In these states, just two of the electors are chosen in a winner-take-all fashion from the entire state. The remaining electors are determined by the winner in each congressional district, with each district voting for one elector.)

*The Electoral College Votes for the President.* The Electoral College then votes for President and for Vice-President, with each elector casting one vote; these votes are called electoral votes. Each elector is pledged to vote for particular candidates for President and Vice-President. In most elections, all the electors vote in accordance with the pledge they made; it is not clear what would happen in the unlikely event that a large number of electors violated their pledge and voted differently.

Normally, one of the candidates for President receives a majority (more than half) of the electoral votes; that person is elected President. That candidate's vice-presidential running mate will then also receive a majority of electoral votes (for Vice-President), and that person is elected Vice-President.

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## RabzonKhan

*What Is The Electoral College? How It Works And Why It Matters*

The Electoral College will dominate the airwaves and the headlines on Election Day Tuesday. But what exactly _is_ the Electoral College? Below is a quick guide on what it does and why it matters.

*What is the Electoral College?*

The Electoral College is made up of 538 electors who cast votes to decide the President and Vice-President of the United States. When voters go to the polls on Tuesday, they will be choosing which candidate receives their state’s electors. The candidate who receives a majority of electoral votes (270) wins the Presidency. The number 538 is the sum of the nation’s 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, and 3 electors given to the District of Columbia.

*How does the Electoral College work?*

Every four years, voters go to the polls and select a candidate for President and Vice-President. In all but two states, the candidate who wins the majority of votes in a state wins that state’s electoral votes. In Nebraska and Maine, electoral votes are assigned by proportional representation, meaning that the top vote-getter in those states wins two electoral votes (for the two Senators) while the remaining electoral votes are allocated congressional district by congressional district. These rules make it possible for both candidates to receive electoral votes from Nebraska and Maine, unlike the winner-take-all system in the other 48 states.

*How are the electors selected?*

This process varies from state to state. Usually, political parties nominate electors at their state conventions. Sometimes that process occurs by a vote of the party’s central committee. The electors are usually state-elected officials, party leaders, or people with a strong affiliation with the Presidential candidates.

*Do electors have to vote for their party’s candidate?*

Neither the Constitution nor Federal election laws compel electors to vote for their party’s candidate. That said, twenty-seven states have laws on the books that require electors to vote for their party’s candidate if that candidate gets a majority of the state’s popular vote. In 24 states, no such laws apply, but common practice is for electors to vote for their party’s nominee.

*What happens if no one gets a majority of Electoral College votes?*

If no one gets a majority of electoral votes, the election is thrown to the U.S. House of Representatives. The top three contenders face off with each state casting one vote. Whoever wins a majority of states wins the election. The process is the same for the Vice Presidency, except that the U.S. Senate makes that selection.

*Can you lose the popular vote and win the electoral college vote?*

Yes, a candidate could lose the popular vote and win the electoral college vote. This happened to George W. Bush in 2000, who lost the popular vote to Al Gore by .51% but won the electoral college 271 to 266.

*When does the Electoral College cast its votes?*

Each state’s electors meet on the Monday following the second Wednesday of December. They cast their votes then, and those votes are sent to the President of the Senate who reads them before both houses of Congress on January 6th.

*Why does the Electoral College matter?*

*The Electoral College determines the President and Vice-President of the United States. The Electoral College system also distinguishes the United States from other systems where the highest vote-getter automatically wins. This so-called “indirect election” process has been the subject of criticism and attempted reform, though proponents of it maintain that it ensures the rights of smaller states and stands as an important piece of American federalist democracy.*

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## RabzonKhan

Racist demagogue does it again, this time his target are not the “rapist” Mexicans or the “terrorist” Muslims, but the Jews. 


*
Trump tweets image depicting Clinton, cash and the Star of David*
 
By Kristen East 07/02/16







Donald Trump shared an image depicting Hillary Clinton, a pile of cash and the Star of David on Twitter Saturday, drawing a rapid and critical response.

Trump tweeted “Crooked Hillary - - Makes History!” along with a photoshopped image of Clinton’s one-time avatar, which reads “History made.” Clinton’s face appears over a pile of hundred dollar bills, and a six-pointed star that reads, “Most Corrupt Candidate Ever!” Below the image was a screenshot of a Fox News poll that asked voters how “honest/trustworthy” or “corrupt” they found the presumptive Democratic nominee.

Many critics, including political commentators and journalists, were quick to point out the shape of the Star of David, questioning Trump’s motive for tweeting such an image. Trump later tweeted a new image that featured the same text over a red circle instead of a star. The original tweet and image has since been deleted.

Republican strategist and CNN contributor Ana Navarro brought up the fact that Trump often makes appeals to the Jewish community by saying he has Jewish grandchildren. His daughter, Ivanka Trump, converted to Judaism before marrying her husband, Jared Kushner.

“‘I have Jewish grandchildren’ is the new, ‘Some of my best-friends are black’ defense to an offensive comment,” she tweeted in response to the image.

*Marc Lamont Hill, host of BET News and a CNN commentator, said the image Trump shared “is textbook anti-Semitic imagery.* #louderthanadogwhistle.”


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## Desertfalcon

I'm not a Hillary Clinton supporter, (Nor Trump.), but I enjoy your posts, @RabzonKhan

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## Mugwop

Embrace yourselves people this will be the worst election ever in US history



Desertfalcon said:


> I'm not a Hillary Clinton supporter, (Nor Trump.), but I enjoy your posts, @RabzonKhan

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## Desertfalcon

Mugwop said:


> Embrace yourselves people this will be the worst election ever in US history



You can't blame the eagle. It was just afraid of whatever furry animal that is on top of Trump's head.

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## Falcon29

There is a global shift occurring in all societies, and it will be no different in the US. So don't bother wasting your time trying to alter the coming change, that came as a result of impatient and tyrannical leaders pushing their agenda across the world. We saw the results in the UK, we see the shift occurring in the Middle East, and it is coming to the US too. The old leaders will go out, the new will come on. It will be a bumpy ride.


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## pakdefender

Seems like Trump is gaining on Clinton

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...k-poll-voters-alarmed-trump-clinton/86632526/


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## RabzonKhan

Case closed! told you so, she was not going to be charged, what she did was highly irresponsible, but not a crime. 


*F.B.I. Recommends No Charges Against Hillary Clinton for Use of Personal Email

By MARK LANDLERJULY 5, 2016
*
WASHINGTON — The F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, said on Tuesday that the bureau would not recommend criminal charges in Hillary Clinton’s handling of classified information, lifting an enormous legal cloud from her presidential campaign, hours before her first joint campaign appearancewith President Obama.

But Mr. Comey rebuked Mrs. Clinton as being “extremely careless” in using a personal email address and server for sensitive information, declaring that an ordinary government official could have faced administrative sanction for such conduct.

To warrant a criminal charge, Mr. Comey said, there had to be evidence that Mrs. Clinton intentionally sent or received classified information — something that the F.B.I. did not find. “Our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case,” he said at a news conference.

The Justice Department is highly likely to accept the F.B.I.’s instruction. Attorney General Loretta Lynch said on Friday that she would accept the recommendation of the F.B.I. and career prosecutors in the case, after questions were raised about an impromptu meeting between her and former President Bill Clinton at an airport in Phoenix.

Mr. Comey’s statement came three days after F.B.I. investigators interviewed Mrs. Clinton, a sign that the case was winding down. He described an elaborate yearlong investigation, in which the F.B.I. examined multiple servers, read 30,000 emails and interviewed dozens of people. *Read more*


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## Nilgiri

"Laws" only apply to the plebs. Carry on, nothing to see here folks.

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## faithfulguy

Nilgiri said:


> "Laws" only apply to the plebs. Carry on, nothing to see here folks.



Very true. Clinton is above the law. That is for sure.

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## Nilgiri

A message from one of my American friends:

A bad day for the Republic Yes, but so was the day Obama was elected and re-elected. 
911 was also a bad day for the Republic as was Dec 7, 1941, April 12, 1861 and we have had many, many other bad days but we have always come back and I give us a fair chance of coming back this time.

Friends of the US Constitution, this is no time to lose our nerve. We have lost a battle, not the war. Now is the time to screw up our courage and redouble determination to carry on the fight against those forces who would destroy our 240 year old Republic. I, for one, am now totally committed to seeing Donald trump as President. Not because I am enthralled with him but because he is the best bet we have of defeating Hillary. Being a very pig headed, and very Ugly American I say
to you all; you are either For the US constitution and the rule of law or against us. To those with us I say "Stout Hearts".
Now turn too, we have work to do.

Also worth watching if you have about 30 minutes:


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## RabzonKhan

Falcon29 said:


> There is a global shift occurring in all societies, and it will be no different in the US. So don't bother wasting your time trying to alter the coming change, that came as a result of impatient and tyrannical leaders pushing their agenda across the world. We saw the results in the UK, we see the shift occurring in the Middle East, and it is coming to the US too. The old leaders will go out, the new will come on. It will be a bumpy ride.


Though you have a point, but I think you’re being too overconfidence. The success of Brexit is certainly a concern for those of us who are opposed to Trump, but that doesn’t mean Trump will win.



pakdefender said:


> Seems like Trump is gaining on Clinton
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...k-poll-voters-alarmed-trump-clinton/86632526/


In the latest, July 1-5 Reuters/Ipsos opinion polls released on Tuesday, Hillary widened her lead over Trump to 13 percentage points. Poll showed that 46% of likely voters supported Clinton, while 33% backed Trump. *Link*

One or two polls do not make a difference, it has to be several polls to analyze a trend, the fact is, Hillary has been winning in head to head polls since June 1, 2015:

*
2016 General Election: Trump vs. Clinton*

Currently tracking 535 polls from 31 pollsters


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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/750779275217932288




*Haters, get over it: Hillary Clinton isn't going to jail over emails, Benghazi*

By Dahleen Glanton *Chicago Tribune* 7/6/2016

On the heels of Independence Day, the FBI gave America a belated 240th birthday present: Hillary Clinton won't be going to prison over Emailgate.

Haters, get over it.

The anti-Hillary crowd has been poking us with that stick during her entire presidential campaign, casting doubt on her viability, planting innuendo about her character and working nonstop to make us think that they somehow knew something the rest of us didn't.

Tuesday, investigators announced that Clinton did nothing criminally wrong by using her personal email account while handling classified information as secretary of state. It removed a potentially damaging legal barrier from the campaign trail and cleared a pile of rubbish from her path to the White House. And it happened just in the nick of time.

Think of it this way: A President Hillary Clinton is the only thing standing in the way of a President Donald Trump. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

*Battle for White House






*
Hillary has a significant electoral advantage over Trump, based on previous election results, polling and demographics.

Here is the electoral map:

*210 Clinton*---------------------*Toss Ups 164*-------------------------*Trump 164

270 Electoral Votes Needed To Win




*


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## Nilgiri

Poll: Majority wanted Hillary indicted 
19 Power Line by Paul Mirengoff 

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/07/poll-majority-wanted-hillary-indicted.php

A Rasmussen poll finds that most voters disagree with FBI Director James Comey’s decision not to seek a criminal indictment of Hillary Clinton. *The poll, taken the night Comey announced the decision, finds that 37 percent of likely voters agree with the FBI’s decision, but 54 percent disagree and believe the FBI should have sought a criminal indictment.*

I confess to being surprised by this result. I expected the split to be closer to 50-50. 

Naturally most Democrats agree with the decision. However, fully one-quarter of Dems disagree.

Among Republicans the sentiment is clear enough. 79 percent believe Hillary should have been indicted. *They are joined by 63 percent of voters not affiliated with either major political party.*

The pro-indictment sentiment may be fueled to some extent by the sense that powerful people get preferential treatment when they break the law. *81 percent of those surveyed believe this to be the case. Only 10 percent disagree. *

Given these numbers, Donald Trump’s takeaway from Comey’s decision — that the system is rigged — should resonate.


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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/751401960381767680


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/751199631728607232


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## [Bregs]

*Trump effect: Apple, Microsoft, HP among companies shunning Republican convention*

SAN FRANCISCO: Donald Trump has promised to liven up this year's Republican National Convention. But some of America's biggest corporations are bailing on the party.

Apple recently became the latest company to give the GOP's presumptive nominee the cold shoulder; it won't contribute money or products to the Republicans' big shindig in Cleveland this month.

HP Inc is also withholding support, while Microsoft is giving products only, not cash. Beyond the tech industry, Ford, JPMorgan Chase and United Parcel Service have opted to withhold support.

Most of these companies are also taking a pass on donating to the 2016 Democratic convention. In previous election cycles, though, several of them have given Republican organisers more sometimes far more in cash or donated products than they have the Democrats, making their pullback from the Republican gathering this year more dramatic.

The reasons aren't completely clear. None of these companies publicly described its decisions as a repudiation of Trump . Several declined to discuss their thinking, while others said their sponsorship plans were decided months before Trump emerged as the front-runner for the GOP nomination.






_An anti-Trump protester holds protest sign in Cleveland. (Reuters photo)_
In many cases, however, their decisions became known after civil rights groups launched a public effort including billboards, letters and online messages aimed at persuading companies to withhold support for an event celebrating a candidate who's campaigned with incendiary proposals, racial rhetoric and harsh comments about immigrants and women.

"Of course it's because of Trump ," said Larry Sabato, a University of Virginia political scientist who has studied party conventions for more than 30 years. Business executives, he said, don't want to alienate customers who may be offended by Trump's statements. "Just as candidates don't get votes from people they insult," he said, "corporations don't get business from people they insult."

Even so, Republican convention organisers say their fundraising is going well. More than 100 donors have contributed a total of US $57.5 million, or about 90 per cent of what's needed, said Emily Lauer of the Cleveland 2016 Host Committee. She declined to provide a list of sponsors. Trump's campaign did not respond to requests for comment.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...epublican-convention/articleshow/53128877.cms

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## RabzonKhan

*Hillary Clinton And Democrats Open Massive Lead Over Trump And GOP In New Poll*

By Jason Easley on Fri, Jul 8th, 2016 at 1:25 pm

Hillary Clinton’s big lead over Donald Trump continues to grow, while Trump is starting to hurt Congressional Republicans as Democrats have expanded their lead with voters on the generic Congressional ballot.

The latest poll from Democracy Corps revealed:

_*Hillary Clinton leads Donald Trump by 11 points in Democracy Corps’ most recent national survey (48 percent to 37 percent, with 8 percent voting for Libertarian Gary Johnson). This survey of 900 likely 2016 voters was conducted June 23-28th with 66 percent of respondents reached on cell phones.*_

_*Importantly, this is the first time that we have seen the presidential vote margin for Democrats exceed the Democrats’ party identification advantage: in this case, Democrats hold a 6-point advantage in party identification and an 8-point advantage with Republican and Democratic leaning-independents.*

This poll also shows Democrats making gains down-ballot. In a named congressional ballot, Democratic congressional candidates have opened an 8-point lead over Republican congressional candidates (49 to 41 percent). This is up from a 6-point advantage over the Republican candidates in March polling, and the greatest margin for congressional Democrats that we have measured since June 2009 in our polling. This is also the same margin achieved during the wave elections of 2006 and 2008._

It is only July, but the poll offers a strong hint that there is a Democratic wave building for November. If Democrats keep or expand on their generic Congressional ballot lead, the unthinkable could occur, as the House Republican majority will be in jeopardy.

*The efforts by Republicans to isolate Trump and prevent his plague of bad poll numbers from spreading down the ballot appear to be failing. The proof will come when more endangered incumbent Republican members of Congress run away from Trump.*

*The current Republican plan appears to be to ignore Trump and pretend like the presidential contest exists on another planet.*

If the numbers continue to worsen, Republicans should be expected to overtly run away from Trump in a desperate attempt to save their own skins. Running way from the top of your own ticket never works, but Donald Trump is threatening to sink the entire Republican Party.

Democrats should be even more motivated to push harder to finish the job. Winning back the House is still a long shot that will take lots of effort, but thanks to Donald Trump, Democratic voters may have a chance in November to keep the White House, take back the Senate, and throw the extremists out of the House.

An election that was already going well could get even better for the Democratic Party by Election Day.

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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/752535107437600768


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/752503279268065280


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/752559624184688640


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## RabzonKhan

*CWA Endorses Hillary Clinton for President
*
July 11, 2016

Washington, D.C. -- The Communications Workers of America whole-heartedly endorses Secretary Hillary Clinton for President of the United States.

*We know that elections are about choices. The contrast between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee, couldn’t be greater.*

Hillary Clinton has stood with CWA members and pledges her commitment to making life better for working families. She’s walked with us on the Verizon picket line. She supports the call to get big money out of politics. She is committed to ending special treatment for Wall Street and the 1 percent. She wants to help students end the cycle of education debt. She has a solid record on the issues that are critical for working families: bargaining rights and the right to organize; family and medical leave; closing tax loopholes that benefit the 1 percent at the expense of our communities; secure health care and retirement benefits, and equal pay legislation. She has reaffirmed her opposition to the Trans-Pacific Partnership, now and in a possible lame-duck session of Congress.

*Donald Trump also has been telling us exactly what he would do. He supports “right to work” laws that weaken workers’ bargaining rights. He thinks the minimum wage is too high and that workers who want good jobs should accept lower wages. He dismisses the need for equal pay for women. He talks a good game about bad trade deals but manufactures his fancy ties offshore.*

*Hillary Clinton is thoughtful and experienced. Donald Trump is reckless, unthinking and much more likely to cut a deal with his billionaire colleagues than look out for working families.*

In a Donald Trump administration, we’d be watching our backs for four years. We’d have no opportunity to move forward on real gains for working families, instead, we’d be forced on defense, just to defend the jobs and gains we’ve made over the years. With Hillary Clinton as president, we will have the ability and opportunity to push forward on our agenda to build a just, democratic society for working families.

*The choice is clear. CWA will do everything we can to mobilize our members and activists to elect Hillary Clinton President of the United States.*

The largest number of CWA members and retirees are in California, Texas, New York, New Jersey, and Ohio. Activists will be engaged in worksite actions, staffing phone banks, neighborhood walks, and other support.


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## RabzonKhan

*Bernie Sanders Finally Did It*

*He endorses Hillary Clinton*
*



*

PORTSMOUTH, New Hampshire (CNN) —Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders formally endorsed presumptive Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton at a rally in New Hampshire Tuesday, ending their political rivalry.

Clinton, the presumptive Democratic nominee, hopes to rev up voters on the left with help from Sanders, the 74-year-old self-described democratic socialist who excited the liberal base and won young voters by large margins during the primary.

The joint rally here in Portsmouth will begin putting to rest Democratic fears of a political nightmare scenario: that Sanders might sit on his hands in the general election -- or worse, run as a third-party candidate on the left.

Clinton aides are confident that Sanders could be the former secretary of state's potent weapon against Trump. *Read more*



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/752893307361996800


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## Nilgiri

https://www.rt.com/usa/350829-bernie-sellout-sanders-reaction/

*'Bernie is a sellout': Sanders supporters blast him for endorsing Hillary Clinton*

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...f-of-sanders-supporters-won-t-support-clinton

*Nearly Half of Sanders Supporters Won’t Support Clinton: Poll
*


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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...f-of-sanders-supporters-won-t-support-clinton
> 
> *Nearly Half of Sanders Supporters Won’t Support Clinton: Poll
> *



Damn, that's a considerable Democrat voter base.

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## anon45

Nilgiri said:


> https://www.rt.com/usa/350829-bernie-sellout-sanders-reaction/
> 
> *'Bernie is a sellout': Sanders supporters blast him for endorsing Hillary Clinton*
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...f-of-sanders-supporters-won-t-support-clinton
> 
> *Nearly Half of Sanders Supporters Won’t Support Clinton: Poll*



LOL those diehards were very likely independent before this, so no big loss. Certainly no one can call themself a Progressive who supported Bernie with a straight face and still vote for Trump.

Bernie is doing what he always said he would do, he made no secret that he would support Hillary if she won the nomination. People who thought he was going to run 3rd party or, seriously, support Trump, were delusional.

His endorsement was also quite passionate, not tepid like some were hoping.

Trump is everything Bernie stands against, Hillary's positions are relatively close to Bernie's ideals, and he did move the party platform left to a good degree.

Perhaps those those people claiming 'Bernie is a sellout' should have actually listened to what he said the whole time, instead of what they wanted him to say.

Anyways, with the A-list Dem names behind Clinton she has a formidable campaigning team.


Meanwhile A-list Republicans are either very tepid in their support or don't support Trump at all. Plus he is his own worst enemy.


He's going to get creamed, and Republican down tickets are probably going to get creamed along with him.

This might make the Republicans seriously consider their own super delegate system if the loss is to McGovern levels..

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## Nilgiri




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## T-72M1

FLORIDA: Trump 42 - Clinton 39
OHIO: Clinton 41 - Trump 41
PENNSYLVANIA: Trump 43 - Clinton 41


http://www.qu.edu/news-and-events/q...ing-state-polls/release-detail?ReleaseID=2365














@RabzonKhan @Desert Fox


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## RabzonKhan

Nilgiri said:


> http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-06-22/nearly-half-of-sanders-supporters-won-t-support-clinton
> 
> *Nearly Half of Sanders Supporters Won’t Support Clinton: Poll*


You need to update yourself, buddy, that was an old poll (June 14).


The ABC/WaPo poll(June 26)-*81% of Bernie supporters are backing Hillary* and only 8% support Trump. *Link*


Public Policy Polling (PPP) (June 30) *79% are voting for Hillary* to 7% for Trump. *Link*


And in the most recent, Pew research Center (July 7) *85% of Bernie supporters intend to vote for Clinton* and 9% support Trump. *Link*

Now that Bernie has endorsed Hillary, I’m hoping, more of his supporters will back Hillary.



anon45 said:


> LOL those diehards were very likely independent before this, so no big loss. Certainly no one can call themself a Progressive who supported Bernie with a straight face and still vote for Trump.
> 
> Bernie is doing what he always said he would do, he made no secret that he would support Hillary if she won the nomination. People who thought he was going to run 3rd party or, seriously, support Trump, were delusional.
> 
> His endorsement was also quite passionate, not tepid like some were hoping.
> 
> Trump is everything Bernie stands against, Hillary's positions are relatively close to Bernie's ideals, and he did move the party platform left to a good degree.
> 
> Perhaps those those people claiming 'Bernie is a sellout' should have actually listened to what he said the whole time, instead of what they wanted him to say.
> 
> Anyways, with the A-list Dem names behind Clinton she has a formidable campaigning team.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile A-list Republicans are either very tepid in their support or don't support Trump at all. Plus he is his own worst enemy.
> 
> 
> He's going to get creamed, and Republican down tickets are probably going to get creamed along with him.
> 
> *This might make the Republicans seriously consider their own super delegate system if the loss is to McGovern levels.*.


I’m a strong supporter of superdelegates, imagine, if the Republican party had superdelegates, it would have been impossible for Trump to hijack their party.


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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> I’m a strong supporter of superdelegates, imagine, if the Republican party had superdelegates, it would have been impossible for Trump to hijack their party.


you're advocating for totalitarianism, Trump is the will of the people.

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## ultron

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...piac-poll-florida-ohio-pennsylvania/87021744/


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## ultron

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hill...p-tied-latest-national-poll/story?id=40571216


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## RabzonKhan

*50-State Snapshot: Clinton Beats Trump, but It’s Close
*
Cameron Easley | July 14, 2016

*If the presidential election were held today, Hillary Clinton would top Donald Trump 320-212 in electoral votes to clinch the White House, according to an extensive Morning Consult analysis of 57,000 voters. *That electoral count is only slightly less favorable to Democrats than the count in the 2012 election, when President Obama won the Electoral College 332-206.

The 2016 presidential race is far from over, however. Morning Consult’s polling data is within 2 percentage points in eight key states. Iowa is not included in the electoral count because it is a statistical dead heat.

The other close states are Florida, Georgia, Maine, Michigan, New Hampshire, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. When those states are removed from the electoral count, Clinton garners 241 electoral votes and Trump receives 190. If Trump wins a few of those states, he could come out on top.

The analysis uses the opinions of 57,000 registered voters collected from April through June in tandem with a variety of demographic characteristics in each state, such as age, gender, and President Obama’s approval rating, to determine how the race would look now.

The research shows movement in a number of states since Morning Consult’s previous in-depth analysis.

In the Midwest, Trump is gaining ground. In April, Clinton led Trump by 2 percentage points in Ohio, but now the Buckeye State leans toward the GOP nominee. Clinton also earlier held a slim lead in Iowa, but that race is now a pure tossup, with both candidates receiving 40.1 percent of the vote.

Wisconsin is also trending toward Trump. In Indiana, Trump has made major gains against Clinton; he has increased his lead there by 9 percentage points.

In the West, Nevada has moved to the left as the general-election phase of the campaign has kicked into gear.

And while much of the map in the South looks typically Republican, Georgia is shifting toward Clinton, where voters were firmly in Trump’s camp in April. The state now leans toward the former secretary of State, albeit within the margin of error. *Read more*



T-72M1 said:


> you're advocating for totalitarianism, Trump is the will of the people.


Sorry to say, but Trump is a sham, he is not a Republican, and his whole agenda is, by hook or by crook, to become the president of United States.

As the former president of United States, Dwight Eisenhower, once said, “a political party without principles is nothing more than a conspiracy to seize power”.

The reasons that the Democrats adopted the superdelegate system was to preserve the core values of the party, protect the party against a outsider takeover (that was the main reason majority of superdelegates supported Hillary), and, in the worst scenario, vote against a candidate whom the party establishment feels lacks electability. After all, the whole process of primaries is to elect the best candidate who can win the White House.


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## ultron

It don't matter who leads nationally. The election will be decided by a few swing states. Florida. Ohio. Pennsylvania. Iowa. Who wins the swing states will win the election. The winner of a state gets all of that state's count.

RNC killed the rebel Never Trump movement

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...trump-movement-to-unbind-delegates-votes.html


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## RoadRunner401

T-72M1 said:


> you're advocating for totalitarianism, Trump is the will of the people.



Will of the people? is that why Canadian government website for immigration to Canada was crashed by the Americans.

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## RabzonKhan

Banning Muslims from entering the United States, and his strong opposition to free-trade agreements are considered the most important policies of his presidential campaign.

And now Trump has selected Indiana Gov. Mike Pence as his running mate, now, why the hell would he want someone as his VP who is totally against his two most important policies?

Told you, he is a sham and has no principles, and his real agenda is, by hook or by crook, to seize power.









__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/753965070003109888






His VP:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/674249808610066433





Trump compares trade deals to rape. He says that trans-pacific partnership was “just a continuing rape of our country”.

His VP:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/509032682555457536


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## ultron

RabzonKhan said:


> Banning Muslims from entering the United States, and his strong opposition to free-trade agreements are considered the most important policies of his presidential campaign.
> 
> And now Trump has selected Indiana Gov. Mike Pence as his running mate, now, why the hell would he want someone as his VP who is totally against his two most important policies?
> 
> Told you, he is a sham and has no principles, and his real agenda is, by hook or by crook, to seize power.
> 
> 
> View attachment 318072
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/753965070003109888
> 
> View attachment 318073
> 
> 
> His VP:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/674249808610066433
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump compares trade deals to rape. He says that trans-pacific partnership was “just a continuing rape of our country”.
> 
> His VP:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/509032682555457536




Maybe Mike Pence changed his stance. That rhymes.


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## RabzonKhan

ultron said:


> Maybe Mike Pence changed his stance. That rhymes.


Really, when did that happen, any source?


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## ultron

RabzonKhan said:


> Really, when did that happen, any source?




Mike Pence is a hardcore racist. After many terror attacks, it's not surprising he change his stance, no?


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## Aero

RabzonKhan said:


> Really, when did that happen, any source?


Then you also can't say Trump changed his stance.


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## RabzonKhan

ultron said:


> Mike Pence is a hardcore racist. After many terror attacks, it's not surprising he change his stance, no?


He is also a racist, wow, did not know that, thanks for the info.



Aero said:


> Then you also can't say Trump changed his stance.


Sorry did not understand what you are trying to say.


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## Aero

RabzonKhan said:


> He is also a racist, wow, did not know that, thanks for the info.
> 
> 
> Sorry did not understand what you are trying to say.


As you were asking source for Mike Pence's stance change.
I meant to say whether or not Mike Pence changed his stance that does not imply Trump changed his stance.


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## T-72M1

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/287845-democrats-freaked-out-about-polls-in-meeting-with-clinton

http://thesop.org/story/20160714/be...llary-zero-times-during-23-minute-speech.html


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## RabzonKhan

ultron said:


> It don't matter who leads nationally. The election will be decided by a few swing states. Florida. Ohio. Pennsylvania. Iowa. Who wins the swing states will win the election. The winner of a state gets all of that state's count.
> 
> RNC killed the rebel Never Trump movement
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...trump-movement-to-unbind-delegates-votes.html


According to RealClear Politics, Hillary has *209* electoral votes -vs- Trump *164*.* Link*

NPR, gives Hillary *201* electoral votes-vs-Trump *163*. *Link*

So even if Trump wins, Florida (29 electoral votes), Ohio(18), Pennsylvania(20) and Iowa(6), total 73 electoral votes, plus Trumps 164 electoral votes comes to a total of 237 electoral votes, to win he needs 270 electoral vote.

On the other hand, if Hillary wins all these four states, then the game will be over.

I think the battleground states are, Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Michigan, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia and Wisconsin.



Aero said:


> As you were asking source for Mike Pence's stance change.
> I meant to say whether or not Mike Pence changed his stance that does not imply Trump changed his stance.


My point was why would he want someone as his VP who is totally against two of his most important policies? Why didn’t he find someone who supports his core policies?

The irony is that his VP’s views on the ban on Muslims, and free trade are closer to Hillary’s positions, now think of it, how embarrassing it would be for Trump to criticize Hillary on these issues?


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## RabzonKhan

I think Pence is another nail in Trump’s coffin, bad choice, he should've picked a conservative women.








*Trump had a problem with women voters. Pence could make it even worse.*

By Katie Zezima 7/16/2016

*Donald Trump has already had problems making inroads with female, gay and minority voters. His newly announced vice presidential pick, Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, could make things even worse.

Pence has endorsed controversial legislation on abortion, gay rights and immigration both in Indiana and while in Congress, where he was consistently ranked as one of the most right-leaning members of the House.* He attempted to shut down the government over Planned Parenthood funding, supported a measure that made English the nation’s official language and signed one of the nation’s strictest abortion laws earlier this year.

Pence is almost certain to appeal to socially conservative and evangelical voters who have been skeptical of Trump, a brash, thrice-married New Yorker with little appetite for fighting the culture wars. With Pence, Trump brought onto the ticket his inverse: a social-issues warrior with a long, very conservative track record.

_[What it means that Mike Pence called himself an ‘evangelical Catholic’]_

*Democrats — including presumptive presidential nominee Hillary Clinton — women’s health advocates and gay rights groups wasted no time pouncing on Pence, whom they described as extreme, anti-woman and anti-gay.*

“A Trump-Pence ticket should send a shiver down the spine of women in this country,” said Dawn Laguens, executive vice president of the Planned Parenthood Action Fund. “Donald Trump just sent a message to the women of America: Your health and your lives are not important.”

*A Washington Post-ABC News poll last month found that 77 percent of women had an unfavorable impression of Trump, including 62 percent who saw him in a “strongly unfavorable” light. Trump’s negative ratings among women are more than 20 percentage points higher than 2012 Republican nominee Mitt Romney received at any point in that year’s campaign.*

In a May NBC News/Marist poll, 41 percent of Indiana women surveyed said they disapproved of Pence, and the same number said they approve of his job performance.

Earlier this year, Pence signed one of the nation’s farthest-reaching abortion laws, which bans abortions of fetuses diagnosed with Down syndrome or any other disability or because of the race, sex or ancestry of the fetus. The measure subjects abortion providers to disciplinary sanctions and civil liability for wrongful death for performing an abortion for any of the reasons stated in the law.

The law also mandates that fetuses that are miscarried or stillborn in a medical facility be buried or cremated and that women have an ultrasound at least 18 hours before a scheduled abortion.

A judge struck down portions of the law prohibiting women from seeking to abort fetuses due to specific circumstances and its mandate on disposing of fetuses before it was scheduled to take effect July 1. The Indiana chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union challenged the ultrasound provision last week.

“This law attempted to do exactly what Supreme Court precedent said could not be done: invade a woman’s privacy rights by preventing her from deciding whether to obtain a pre-viability abortion,” Ken Falk, the legal director of the Indiana ACLU, said in a statement.

The law provoked a firestorm in Indiana and across the country. Some women said the law doesn’t account for the fact that many women have miscarriages and don’t know it.

In one attention-grabbing effort, opponents tweeted, emailed and called Pence with graphic descriptions of their menstrual cycle. Many used the hashtag #periodsforpence or wrote on a Facebook page with the same name. On Friday, women started contacting Trump in a similar effort they billed as “Tampons for Trump.”

“Pence’s election meant R.I.P. to women’s rights in Indiana,” Clinton’s campaign wrote in a news release.

_[While the culture wars rage, Trump largely stays out of the fight]_

In Congress, Pence embarked on a crusade against Planned Parenthood, filing the first legislation that called for barring the organization from receiving federal funding. In both 2011 and 2013, Pence played a central role in trying to shut down the government over funding Planned Parenthood, gambits that did not work. *Read more*



Meanwhile, as usual, Hillary is beating the hell out of him in the polls.







*Clinton leads Trump by 12 points ahead of Republican convention: Reuters/Ipsos poll*

NEW YORK | BY GRANT SMITH AND CHRIS KAHN 7/15/2016


Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump trailed Democratic rival Hillary Clinton by 12 percentage points in a Reuters/Ipsos poll released on Friday, making him the clear underdog ahead of next week's Republican National Convention.

Forty-five percent of likely voters supported former Secretary of State Clinton, 33 percent supported Trump, the wealthy businessman, and the remainder supported neither, according to the July 11-15 online poll.

The survey showed little change from Tuesday, when Clinton had led Trump by 13 percentage points.

Clinton has been ahead in the poll since early January. Trump only approached her level of support in May, after his last two remaining rivals quit the race and he became the presumptive Republican nominee.

Trump's favorability has dropped since then, as his campaign began to focus on the Nov. 8 general election.

Trump has faced criticism in recent weeks over his now-defunct Trump University venture, which is accused of making false promises, and over his anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim rhetoric.

The poll results were mostly gathered before Thursday night's deadly truck attack in Nice, France, and before Trump's announcement on Friday that Indiana Governor Mike Pence would be his vice presidential running mate.

The poll results suggest that Clinton’s use of personal email for government business while secretary of state and her handling of classified information have not damaged her support among likely voters. *Read more*

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## Darmashkian

Pence will help unite more Republicans & conservatives behind Trump. 

But yes, I doubt he will help among women. f


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## RabzonKhan

Darmashkian said:


> Pence will help unite more Republicans & conservatives behind Trump.
> 
> But yes, I doubt he will help among women. f


Certainly, Trump had conservatives in mind for picking, Pence, how this move plays out is yet to be seen. I think our good conservative friend, @Desertfalcon can shed some light on the issue.

According to the US Census Bureau data 52.1% of the electorates are females, and as many polls have shown that Hillary has an edge over Trump with the women voters, without narrowing that huge gap, I don’t think Trump has a chance to win the White House.


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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/754406021024612352


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/754681490768736256


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## RabzonKhan

*Republican National Convention July 18-21*
*




*
*Republican National Convention In Photos*
*



*
*Reince Priebus, chairman of the Republican National Committee, bangs the gavel to officially the open the first day of the Republican National Convention.





*
U.S. House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI) participates in a rehearsal before the Republican National Convention. After initially withholding his endorsement of Trump, Ryan agreed to speak at the RNC.






Police officers use bicycles to create cordons around a protest march by various groups, including “Black Lives Matter” and “Shut Down Trump and the RNC,” ahead of the convention.






Preparations continue in the arena ahead of the RNC.






A protester dressed as Trump walks past restaurant patrons ahead of the convention. Many protesters are expected at the convention.







Delegates from Texas


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## RabzonKhan

*Rocky opening for GOP convention as Cruz forces clash with team Trump
*
Published July 18, 2016 Fox News.

The Republican convention appears to be facing a rocky opening both inside and outside the arena – inside, from forces loyal to Ted Cruz mulling a procedural fight and outside, from anti-Trump protesters testing the demonstration rules set by the city.

Party Chairman Reince Priebus formally kicked off the convention Monday afternoon, setting in motion a packed day of speeches and official party business including the platform itself.

But on the sidelines, multiple high-level GOP sources in Cleveland told Fox News that officials loyal to Cruz – led by former Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli and Sen. Mike Lee of Utah – have been bargaining with the Republican National Committee and Donald Trump campaign over procedural changes they failed to secure in last week’s Rules Committee sessions.

Coming as some anti-Trump delegates still are trying to mount a rebellion on the floor, the Cruz camp is seeking its own changes. *Read more*



*
Never-Trump delegates launch last-ditch bid to disrupt convention*

July 18, 2016 Fox News

CLEVELAND – Anti-Trump Republicans launched a last-ditch bid on Monday to deny the New York businessman the party’s nomination by trying to force a state-by-state vote at the Cleveland convention on the rules that bind delegates to back Donald Trump.

The effort stands little chance of succeeding, but could pose a major disruption to the proceedings just as party officials were trying to smooth over divisions. The Trump camp is said to be "livid" at the revived push.

"This is a big headache," one official told Fox News.

The group of Republicans has been working to upend convention proceedings by taking their objection of the presumptive GOP nominee to the convention floor. Trump’s camp has tried to dismiss the dissidents but as of early Monday afternoon, the Delegates Unbound group showed no signs -- at least in spirit – of giving up the fight.

The group claims to have the signatures from a majority of at least eight state delegations, which could allow them to file a report challenging the convention rules or other decisions. Their focus is specifically on the delegate rules. One member of the group said they've got 10 states in their corner.

“Despite every obstacle thrown in our way, the movement of all the stakeholders involved in this effort have gained a majority of the delegates in 10 states,” M. Dane Waters, co-founder of Delegates Unbound said in a written statement. “Now we take this fight to the floor.” *Read more*

*

Four days of glitz and glam? Some Republican donors say no thanks*

By Theodore Schleifer, CNN July 18, 2016

*Story highlights*

*Many top conservative donors are skipping the RNC convention because they oppose Donald Trump*

*Companies like Apple are also cutting back their previous sponsorship of the event

Paul Singer, perhaps the party's most prolific financier, is staying away. So are Charles and David Koch, who have unparalleled influence in Republican fundraising circles.
And a number of corporate patrons, from Apple to Wells Fargo, have abandoned their traditional sponsorship of the Republican convention, expressing little tolerance for Trump's incendiary brand of politics. Some lobbyists have advised clients to be wary of attending a convention where the chance of protests -- and reputational damage -- is unusually high. Read more*


*Muslim Group Spotlights Islamophobia, Distributes 'Blind Intolerance' Medicine at RNC*
by CHRIS FUCHS
A Muslim civil rights organization kicked off the first day of the Republican National Convention in downtown Cleveland with a news conference Monday morning, criticizing GOP officials and presumptive nominee Donald Trump for what it says are their anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim stances.

"We're trying to raise awareness about the rising tide of Islamophobia in America, and unfortunately Islamophobia has been flourishing within the GOP platform," Nihad Awad, national executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), a nonprofit group, told NBC News.
*In a satirical move, CAIR also handed out packets of "Islamophobin" — a mock medicine (actually chewing gum) to cure Islamophobia. The packaging says Islamophobin treats "blind intolerance" and "unthinking bigotry" and advises patients to "take two and call a Muslim in the morning."

"There's no winner when hate dominates the conversation and there is less room for dialogue and respect for one another," Awad said, adding that Islamophobin is "one creative way to shed light on this dangerous phenomenon." Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

*Republican National Convention July 18-21
*
Donny’s gold digger is just like Donny, a fake. 














*Melania Trump’s Alleged Plagiarism Inspires Memes and Humor*

Melania Trump faced backlash Tuesday morning amid accusations thather Monday night speech at the Republican National Conventionborrowed heavily from the speech First Lady Michelle Obama gave eight years ago.

Paul Manafort, Donald Trump’s campaign manager, defended Melania Trump on Tuesday, saying her speech consisted of “common words and values.”

“There’s no cribbing of Michelle Obama’s speech. These were common words and values — that she cares about her family, things like that,” Manafort said in an interview with CNN. “I mean, she was speaking in front of 35 million people last night. She knew that. To think that she would be cribbing Michelle Obama’s words is crazy.”

*He blamed the widely critical reaction to the speech on presumptive Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton.
“This is once again an example of when a woman threatens Hillary Clinton, how she seeks out to demean her and take her down,” he said. “It’s not going to work.” *

Others criticized Melania Trump on social media, with many using the hashtag #FamousMelaniaTrumpQuotes to mockingly attribute the famous words of others to the prospective First Lady. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/755179347812548608


----------



## CorporateAffairs

Trump and Pence a lethal combination.
Welcome Trump President.


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## RabzonKhan

*Republican National Convention 2016 in Pictures




*




Donald Trump introduces his wife, Melania.







Former Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli (middle) and other delegates from Virginia chant for a roll call vote.






Delegates protest on the floor after the denial of a roll call vote on convention rules.






Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich talks to delegates on the floor prior to the start of the evening session.






Donald Trump's daughter Tiffany is seen during the evening session.






A member of the activist group Code Pink demonstrates during Sen. Jeff Sessions' speech.


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## RabzonKhan

What a sad day for the US!


*Donald Trump claims GOP mantle*

By Stephen Collinson, CNN July 20, 2016

Cleveland (CNN)Donald Trump claimed the mantle Tuesday as the Republican presidential nominee, capping a stunning rise to power for his insurgent campaign as a boisterous showing by his family and friends revived his convention after a rocky start.

Chris Christie, shaking off the disappointment of being passed over as Trump's running mate, performed a show trial of Hillary Clinton, whipping the crowd into frenzied chants of "Lock her Up! Lock her up!"
Trump's son, Donald Jr., marked himself as a rising political star, sketching a portrait of his father as a champion of the working man who could unleash America's potential. His half-sister Tiffany offered a more tender view of her father.

The coordinated attacks against Clinton and glimpses of the New York real estate magnate's family life delighted a raucous crowd after a plagiarism controversy over a speech from Trump's wife, Melania, sidetracked the convention's opening night Monday. *Read more*


Congratulations @*Syed.Ali.Haider  @ultron @T-72M1 @Desert Fox @C130 @CorporateAffairs *


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> I’m a strong supporter of superdelegates, imagine, if the Republican party had superdelegates, it would have been impossible for Trump to hijack their party.



Yes take voting rights away from the masses and put into the hands of a crooked few. Spoken like a true supporter of the hildabeest who has shown if you have the right name, criminal intent suddenly matters when it doesn't for the plebs.

Anyways I'm going to enjoy the polls as they progress:

http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/19/new-poll-clinton-loses-lead-ahead-of-gop-convention/


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## RabzonKhan

*
Another day of the GOP convention, another night of terror*

By Alexandra Petri July 20 2016

CLEVELAND — What HAPPENED Tuesday night?

The second night of the GOP convention was like “1984,” periodically interrupted by infomercials for Trump wines. The evening started with an uncomfortable explanation of why the rules obliged Alaska to vote for Donald Trump and went downhill from there.

*Supposedly the theme of the second night in Cleveland was “Make America Work Again.” Those were the words displayed behind the stage. That was what was announced. But judging by the speeches, the actual theme was “Make America Salem Again.” Or, “Don’t Worry! Hillary Clinton literally worships Lucifer, but on the bright side, Donald Trump’s winery makes excellent wine and his children love him!”*

The night’s prime-time speakers included Paul Ryan, Chris Christie, Tiffany Trump, Donald Trump Jr. and Ben Carson. Donald Trump’s large, disembodied head also appeared onscreen via video feed to thank the party for the nomination, because he feels most comfortable being presented as the Great and Powerful Oz.

Ryan’s speech was upbeat and cheerful. *This seemed odd, given that he had just handed the nomination to someone whose words he had called “the textbook definition of racism,” but it quickly became apparent that this Paul Ryan was just visiting from another, happier timeline and had no idea what was happening around him.* He spoke of the Republican Party as a lively, exciting, aspirational party of ideas, lamenting that the Democrats offered only more of the same. He was about to introduce “our nominee, Jeb Bush” when he noticed the Trump banner overhead and the crushed butterfly on the bottom of his shoe and had to be led sobbing from the podium. (It will not be pleasant when someone shows him the platform, either.)

*Then Chris Christie took the stage. Christie had honed his speaking style in Salem, 1692, and he opened by announcing that he had seen Goody Clinton with the Devil. (Well, to be fair, he did not literally say that Clinton was in league with Satan, but this restraint on his part was unnecessary, as a few minutes later Ben Carson did.) “Let’s do something fun tonight,” Christie suggested: specifically, hold a mock trial of Clinton. The crowd loved this idea and began chanting “Guilty!” when prompted. Given that much of the convention so far has been dedicated to blaming her for the deaths of Americans (“I blame Hillary Clinton personally for the death of my son,” said Pat Smith) and intentionally sabotaging our prestige in the world, this felt like the logical, fun next step.* “How do you live with your own conscience when you reward a domestic terrorist with continued safety and betray the family of [a] fallen police officer waiting for decades for justice for his murder?” Christie asked, to give you a sample. “Hillary Clinton, as coddler of the brutal Castro brothers and betrayer of the family of fallen Trooper Werner Foerster: guilty or not guilty?” “GUILTY!” the crowd shouted. *Read more*



*Republican National Convention in Pictures*
*




*





For Rudy Giuliani's Encore Performance, He'll Be Singing Children's Songs at the RNC 








Journalists talk with a man openly carrying a gun in downtown on the first day of the Republican National Convention on July 18, 2016 in Cleveland.





A woman gives a high-five to a police officer outside the Republican National Convention on July 18, 2016 in Cleveland.







Protesters gather during demonstration near the site of the Republican National Convention (RNC) on July 18, 2016 in Cleveland.


----------



## RabzonKhan

Nilgiri said:


> Yes take voting rights away from the masses and put into the hands of a crooked few. Spoken like a true supporter of the hildabeest who has shown if you have the right name, criminal intent suddenly matters when it doesn't for the plebs.


I already have explained in my previous post my reasons for supporting supperdelegates.

"Sorry to say, but Trump is a sham, he is not a Republican and his whole agenda is, by hook or by crook, to become the president of United States.

As the former president of United States, Dwight Eisenhower, once said, “a political party without principles is nothing more than a conspiracy to seize power”.

The reasons that the Democrats adopted the superdelegate system was to preserve the core values of the party, protect the party against an outsider takeover (that was the main reason majority of superdelegates supported Hillary), and, in the worst scenario, vote against a candidate whom the party establishment feels lacks electability. After all, the whole process of primaries is to elect the best candidate who can win the White House."

And let me add, primaries are party election not general election and the party has all the right to protect itself from an outsider takeover.



> Anyways I'm going to enjoy the polls as they progress:
> 
> http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/19/new-poll-clinton-loses-lead-ahead-of-gop-convention/


It’s just a small bounce in just one poll, because of the Republican convention, but many other polls are still showing Hillary has maintained her lead over him.


----------



## Falcon29

RabzonKhan said:


> I already have explained in my previous post my reasons for supporting supperdelegates.
> 
> "Sorry to say, but Trump is a sham, he is not a Republican and his whole agenda is, by hook or by crook, to become the president of United States.
> 
> As the former president of United States, Dwight Eisenhower, once said, “a political party without principles is nothing more than a conspiracy to seize power”.
> 
> The reasons that the Democrats adopted the superdelegate system was to preserve the core values of the party, protect the party against an outsider takeover (that was the main reason majority of superdelegates supported Hillary), and, in the worst scenario, vote against a candidate whom the party establishment feels lacks electability. After all, the whole process of primaries is to elect the best candidate who can win the White House."
> 
> And let me add, primaries are party election not general election and the party has all the right to protect itself from an outsider takeover.
> 
> 
> It’s just a small bounce in just one poll, because of the Republican convention, but many other polls are still showing Hillary has maintained her lead over him.



If he's not a 'real republican' nor a 'democrat', I'm not so sure why that's such a bad thing according to you ....That is what America needs, an independent. The current 'republican' establishment is a nothing more than a neocon, bought out, fanatically pro-Israel sewer organization. I wish it a slow and painful death, it doesn't represent anything remotely similar to Republican values of distant past.

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## Nilgiri

Falcon29 said:


> If he's not a 'real republican' nor a 'democrat', I'm not so sure why that's such a bad thing according to you ....That is what America needs, an independent. The current 'republican' establishment is a nothing more than a neocon, bought out, fanatically pro-Israel sewer organization. I wish it a slow and painful death, it doesn't represent anything remotely similar to Republican values of distant past.



Its the lack of a stupid superdelegate system that the GOP were able to finally see just how fed up their base is with them and that Trump is a manifestation of a real sourness that has developed for the GOP largely being just another side of the democrats.

Its why Trump wiped the floor with all the traditional GOP twits like Jeb and Marco. Cruz was the only real opposition and he's not even a core GOP sort of guy.

Now Trump is going to make real mincemeat out of Hillary once the conventions are both over. The Dems just shot themselves in the foot really badly over emailgate and letting her avoid prosecution purely based on "lack of criminal intent"....while prosecuting and sentencing dozens of plebs daily on charges like manslaughter. Sanders was the only real hope for the dems to stand a chance....just watch the polls over the next few weeks to see what I mean. The trends are already starting.

Trump will follow a Emailgate + Benghazi + Clinton sexual assault (specifically Hillary's attacking of the victims which have been a no go zone for GOP regulars) pretty much nonstop on top of the issues he is already known for during his campaigning.

Crooked Hillary....has a catchphrase ever been so severe in US election history and actually had the strong basis for it during the campaign?

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## RabzonKhan

*




*

*These Prominent Republicans Won’t Show Up At The RNC*

Can you blame them?

"Four of the last five men nominated for president by the Republican party ― George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, John McCain and Mitt Romney ― will skip the event. (Bob Dole, the party’s nominee in 1996, will attend.)"

"Traditionally, politicians scramble to earn speaking slots at their party’sconvention, which puts them in front of a national audience and can introduce rising stars to the country."

"But this year, with a toxic nominee who seems more interested in himself than the GOP, many high-profile Republicans are running away from the convention and from Trump."

"As of Wednesday, 32 Senate Republicans planned to attend, while 18 planned to skip, according to a count by The Hill. Four ― Sens. Thad Cochran (Miss.), Rand Paul (Ky.), Jim Risch (Idaho) and John Thune (S.D.) ― are undecided.

Nebraska Sen. Ben Sasse doesn’t plan on attending and hasn’t exactly been discreet about his disdain for Trump.

“Sen. Sasse will not be attending the convention and will instead take his kids to watch some dumpster fires across the state, all of which enjoy more popularity than the current front-runners,” his spokesman told The Hill.

Sheldon Adelson, a GOP megadonor, won’t be at the convention either.

Some aren’t attending because they’re locked in close re-election battles and would rather spend the time campaigning. In that group are Sens. Marco Rubio (Fla.), Kelly Ayotte (N.H), Ron Johnson (Wis.) and Mark Kirk (Ill.). Kirk has also rescinded his endorsement of Trump and run ads against him.

Sen. Jeff Flake (Ariz.), another Trump holdout and vocal Trump critic, didn’t even try to come up with a good excuse for why he wouldn’t attend.

“I’ve got to mow my lawn,” Flake told the AP." *Read the complete article*



Bty, Trump’s wife (gold digger), Melania not only plagiarized speech from Obama’s wife Michelle, but she also lied that she has a degree from the University of Slovenia. *Link*














Falcon29 said:


> If he's not a 'real republican' nor a 'democrat', I'm not so sure why that's such a bad thing according to you ....That is what America needs, an independent. The current 'republican' establishment is a nothing more than a neocon, bought out, fanatically pro-Israel sewer organization. I wish it a slow and painful death, it doesn't represent anything remotely similar to Republican values of distant past.


I do not have a problem with an independent (I’m registered as an independent) but then, one should not pretend that they are Democrat/Republican to use their parties for their own agendas.

He hardly supports Republican platform on, foreign policy, free trade, and family values.

As they say, one should put their money where their mouth is (support something that they believe in), Trump has been donating to Democrats and Democratic causes for years, he made a donation to Hillary in 2002, 2005, 2006, 2007 and also donated $100,000 to the Clinton foundation.

He has also indirectly donated to permanent Democrats like, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Rahm Emanuel (a former aide to Pres. Obama) to name a few.

---------------------------------------

Meanwhile, Hillary is very close to picking up her VP, I hope it’s going to be Sen. Tim Kaine.


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## Falcon29

*Jewish Republicans Slip Into Crisis Mode as Donald Trump’s Convention Looms*

For some, the solution has been to turn away from the presidential race altogether. “A lot of us are focusing our efforts on House and Senate races,” an RJC board member said. *“If we don’t win the White House, it’s important to at least keep the House and maybe also the Senate.”*

http://forward.com/news/344893/jewi...risis-mode-as-donald-trumps-convention-looms/
............

Republican Jewish Coalition openly alluding to having control over the White House, Senate and House, now fear losing the White House, but 'keeping' the House and Senate, implying they have control over them currently. So I guess it's anti-Semitic and conspiratorial if anyone else says it??


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## RabzonKhan

*Republican National Convention in Cartoons*
*



























*


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## Nilgiri

*Clinton Foundation Ignored All ‘Best Practices’ For Good Governance*


Clinton Foundation officials have ignored virtually all of the “best practices” urged by good governance organizations for public charities, according to an investigation by The Daily Caller News Foundation.

Most glaringly, for example, the foundation’s insular board of directors is unusually small, ranging from only two to no more than five members, all of whom are among President Bill and Hillary Clinton’s closest and richest friends.

The “good governance” movement in the nonprofit field has been gathering strength for two decades, but it clearly has yet to reach the Clinton Foundation. Most foundation boards have on average 15 members, according to a 2015 survey by Boardsource, a national organization working to strengthen nonprofit board leadership.

Good governance groups also encourage well-managed non-profits to create dedicated oversight committees for audits, donations, governance, executive compensation and whistle-blower policy. The Clinton Foundation has none of those committees, according to its Internal Revenue Service 990 tax filings.


Term-limits are also recommended for board members to encourage fresh thinking in non-profit management. Seventy-one percent of all public foundations today have term limits, according to Boardsource.

Most of the Clinton Foundation’s board members have occupied the same board seats for most of the controversial non-profit’s life.


Arms-length, independent boards also are considered the essential first step in good governance.



The Independent Sector, a non-partisan good governance organization for nonprofits and foundations urge the creation of independent boards and said they should be in the majority.

“A substantial majority of the board of a public charity, usually meaning at least two-thirds of its members, should be independent,” the group recommended.

That is not the case with the Clinton Foundation. The board consists of Bill Clinton’s tightest inner circle, including Democratic mega-fundraiser and now Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, former Arkansas Democratic Sen. David Pryor and the senator’s former aide, J.L. “Skip Rutherford.

McAuliffe was the top fundraiser for Bill and Hillary’s Clinton’s presidential campaigns. He also put up $1.35 million of his own cash to pay for the Clinton’s first 11-room mansion in Chappaqua, New York.

The gift infuriated liberal activist Fred Wertheimer who at the time said, “It’s just plain wrong. It’s dangerous. It’s inappropriate,” adding, “This is a financial favor worth over a million dollars to the president.”

Charles Ortel, a Wall Street analyst and twice a trustee of public foundations, argued the gift should have been disclosed in the foundation’s tax returns.

“Terry McAuliffe made it possible for the Clinton’s to buy their house in Chappaqua. That’s a significant financial relationship that should have been disclosed in the 990’s (tax return) and was not. And has never been corrected,” he said in an interview.

TheDCNF asked Gov. McAuliffe’s office to provide details of the terms of the cash payment and if the Clinton’s had paid it back. The governor’s office did not reply.

Sen. Pryor established a second legal defense fund for Bill Clinton after it was discovered that the first defense committee accepted $600,000 in illegal contributions raised by his longtime friend Charlie Trie. Reportedly, Trie delivered the money in two thick envelopes. He was convicted of election law violations.

Both defense funds were trying to raise money for Clinton’s legal fees generated by the Whitewater scandal and the President’s reported affairs with Monica Lewinsky and Paula Jones.

Rotating on and off the board were other two women. One is Cheryl Mills who served as White House counsel to Bill Clinton and chief of staff for Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Mills got into trouble when it was revealed she was double dipping and taking a salary from both the foundation and the State Department.

The other long-time board member was Ann Jordan, wife of one of Bill’s closest advisors, Vernon Jordan.

“When there too many insiders, it certainly does raise red flags,” said Vernetta Walker, the vice president and chief governance officer at Boardsource in an interview with TheDCNF.

You want a board that can say ‘no,’ adds Leslie Lenkowsky, a founding member of Bill Clinton’s Corporation for National and Community Service and an expert on philanthropy.

“It’s kind of hard to imagine those people will say no very easily to something the Clinton’s want to do,” he told TheDCNF. Lenkowsky later directed the Corporation under President George W. Bush.

McAuliffe, Pryor, Mills and Jordan serve as board members from 2000 to 2005. Pryor jumped off to become the Dean of the Clinton School of Public Service at the University of Arkansas. Rutherford would join the school after his stint at the foundation.

In 2006 McAuliffe and Mills were the only ones on the board. That year its net assets spiked from $80 million two years earlier to more than $200 million.

It’s also the year that the Clinton Foundation spent $12.6 million on Bill Clinton’s 60th birthday party. The foundation recorded the expense as “fundraising expenses.”

In 2005 Skip Rutherford became the foundation’s president. McAuliffe, Mills and Rutherford would serve as directors until 2009 when Mills left to work full time for Hillary as her chief of staff.

2009 was also Hillary’s first year as Secretary of State. That year was the high water mark for the foundation’s overseas operations. It then supported 70 offices and had 704 employees working overseas.

In 2010 it appears that McAuliffe and Rutherford were the only directors at the foundation. That year its net assets were reported to be $181 million.

“I rarely see only two directors,” Walker of Boardsource told TheDCNF. “Quite honestly I can’t remember when I’ve only seen two.”

“Usually in a public charity, the organization is much more cognizant of not having a lot of insiders or interested directors,” Walker told TheDCNF. “That reassures the public that the organization is operating as it should and in best interests of the mission.”

In May 2011 Chelsea Clinton joined the board as vice chair.

A year later the foundation was renamed from the William J. Clinton Foundation to the Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation. McAuliffe appears to be the only director that year, according to tax returns.

In 2013, however, dramatic changes were in play at the foundation. Press reports suggest that the changes were initiated by Chelsea, who wanted to reform the foundation and modernize it.

Also that year the foundation dumped the tiny and relatively limited accounting firm called BKD and hired international accounting powerhouse PriceWaterhouseCoopers.

In 2013, the foundation expanded the board to 12 people. But virtually all of them remained insiders.

They included Bill, Hillary and Chelsea, along with McAuliffe, Cheryl Mills and Frank Giustra. Giustra is a Canadian mining billionaire who donated $100 million to the Clinton Foundation to create the Clinton Giustra Enterprise Partnership.

The mining mogul also benefited from the U.S. Government’s approval of a Russian state-run company’s effort to gain a controlling interest in his uranium mines in the Western U.S. Hillary, as Secretary of State, had to approve the transaction.

Another State Department alumni to join the board was U.S. Ambassador Richard Verma, who served as an Assistant Secretary of State while Hillary was Secretary of State.

Lisa Jackson, Obama’s Environmental Protection Agency chief joined the foundation that year. One of her claims to fame was using a phony email while at EPA under the pseudonym “Richard Windsor.”

Cheryl Saban joined the board too. Her billionaire husband currently is the third biggest donor to her super PAC. He is just behind Tom Steyer and George Soros in contributions to super PACs.

Saban’s 2016 super PAC contribution is a whopping $11 million. The Saban’s additionally donated between $10 to $25 million to the Clinton Foundation.

Eric Goosby is on the board too. He headed up PEPFAR, a UN health organization that partnered with the Clinton Foundation while Hillary was Secretary of State.

Hadeel Ibrahim joined that year. Her father is Mo Ibrahim, a Sudanese-British telecom billionaire. Hadeel runs her father’s foundation.

Rounding out the board was Rolando Gonzalez Bunster, a solar energy enthusiast who received $100 million from a World Bank unit in the last month of Hillary’s term at the State Department.

In July 2013 Chelsea reportedly tried to initiate many reforms at the Clinton Foundation and recruited Eric Braverman to become the new CEO.

Clinton loyalist Bruce Lindsey had served as CEO for nearly all of the foundation’s life.

In December 2014 the board approved a $395,000 pay package for Braverman to become the new CEO. But the next month he abruptly resigned.

_Politico_ reported that Clinton’s insular staff were appalled at Braverman’s attempts at reforms.

Braverman never explained the reasons for his departure. But _Politico_ believes it was a backlash from Bill and Hillary’s hardened loyalists and “mega-donors” who chafed at the notion of more openness and transparency.

Bruce Lindsey now is back as CEO at the foundation.

TheDCNF submitted questions about the board to the Clinton Foundation, but they did not respond



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/18/c...-practices-for-good-governance/#ixzz4FAnuPF4K

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## RabzonKhan

*DONALD TRUMP’S DARK, DARK CONVENTION SPEECH*

By John Cassidy 7/22/2016

*In the history of democracies, there are numerous instances of authoritarian “strongmen” rising to power, and virtually all have based their appeal on a promise to restore order. Donald Trump clearly aspires to join this list, and, in one sense, his apocalyptic speech accepting the Republican nomination for President, on Thursday night in Cleveland, merely confirmed what we already know.*

By the time Trump took the stage at the Quicken Loans Arena, at about 10:20 p.m., there was little mystery about what he would say. The speech had been leaked to Politico and other news organizations hours earlier, and it made for grim reading. “Our Convention occurs at a moment of crisis for our nation,” Trump was slated to say in his opening. “The attacks on our police, and the terrorism in our cities, threaten our very way of life. Any politician who does not grasp this danger is not fit to lead our country.” As a cure-all for these ills, and the many others he detailed in the draft, he was to present a simple and straightforward solution: his election to the Oval Office. “I have a message for all of you,” the text read. “The crime and violence that today afflicts our nation will soon come to an end. Beginning on January 20, 2017, safety will be restored.”

*But it is one thing to read a blatant appeal to fear and nationalism coupled with a self-directed exegesis of the “great man” theory of history; it is another to see it delivered in person by a skilled communicator, standing among a crowd of elected delegates chanting “U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.!”*

Trump set forth with a lengthy indictment of the status quo, starting out with crime. “Decades of progress made in bringing down crime are now being reversed by this Administration’s rollback of criminal enforcement,” he said, citing rising (but cherry-picked) homicide rates in such cities as Baltimore, Chicago, and Washington, D.C. Then it was on to the illegal immigrants purportedly flooding the streets of America. Nearly a hundred and eighty thousand, Trump said, “with criminal records, ordered deported from our country, are tonight roaming free to threaten peaceful citizens.” *Read more*













*That Was A Very Scary Speech Donald Trump Just Gave

Fear and loathing in Cleveland.

Jonathan Cohn 07/22/2016
*
CLEVELAND ― Be afraid. Be very afraid.

That was the essential message of the Republican National Convention this week and it was the same essential message that Donald Trump conveyed to the American people on Thursday evening, when he formally accepted his party’s nomination for president.

Maybe it isn’t surprising. From the day Trump announced his candidacy, warning about mythical rapists that Mexico was sending across the border, the real estate mogul has been telling people that they and their livelihoods were under siege ― from undocumented immigrants, global corporations, Muslim terrorists, elitist liberals, and criminals shooting cops.

He hit all of those themes in his speech Thursday and he hit them hard ― so hard, in fact, that he barely had time for anything else. The speech was long, even by convention speech standards. According to C-Span, it was the longest since 1972, eclipsing even Bill Clinton’s marathon in 1996.

Despite all that time, Trump gave almost no attention to other issues.

School choice and Obamacare each got just one line, while abortion got none. He spent a few minutes on the economy, but nearly all of it was about trade ― and how he intended to protect American jobs by ripping up old trade agreements and imposing tariffs on countries that don’t compete fairly.

The economy section also included one comically vague line ― “I will outline reforms to add millions of new jobs and trillions in new wealth” ― followed by a warning that his efforts “will be opposed by some of our nation’s most powerful special interests. That is because these interests have rigged our political and economic system for their exclusive benefit.”

The section on immigration, naturally, dwelled on the stories of people murdered by undocumented immigrants ― and some highly questionable statistics on how immigration has affected the economy. Even in those few moments when Trump was trying to appeal to idealism, he did so by portraying stories of people or communities under assault.

Maybe nobody should be surprised. Trump delivered his speech from a teleprompter, sticking mostly to the prepared text that had leaked hours before. But it was not much different from the extemporaneous riffs he’s been delivering at campaign stops for months ― or from what previous convention speakers, particularly former New York Mayor Rudy Guiliani and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, had said on previous nights.

*Still, many political professionals had long assumed, and many Republican strategists had desperately hoped, that Trump would use this convention speech to “pivot” to a more positive, more inclusive America. It wouldn’t have been that difficult, if Trump had been even slightly interested in doing so. Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

*Is the U.S. economy as horrible as Donald Trump says it is?
*
By ALAIN SHERTER MONEYWATCH July 22, 2016

Donald Trump sure paints a dire picture of the U.S. economy. In accepting the Republican party's nomination for the presidency on Thursday, he described a country burdened by searing poverty, downward mobility and crushing national debt.

The real estate mogul is hardly the first candidate gunning for the White House to spotlight the nation's economic problems to score political points. The difference with Trump is that his downbeat assessment is part of a broader -- and darker -- vision of America that describes crime-ridden streets, terrorism in our cities and other woes that, as he said in his acceptance speech in Cleveland, "threaten our very way of life."

How close does this grim picture match up with reality? It's a critical question, especially given that a core narrative in Trump's campaign is aimed at lower-income Americans who are struggling to get by. Here's what the evidence shows about how the economy is really faring.

*Hiring. At 4.9 percent, the jobless rate is near what most economists technically call the "non-accelerating inflation rate of unemployment" *-- in other words, the level below which wages and prices start to rise. That attests to the vigorous job growth since the economy collapsed in 2008. But the unemployment rate is only one gauge of the job market, and an incomplete one at that. The Federal Reserve's Labor Market Conditions Index, which factors in 19 different indicators, has fallen for six straight months, suggesting that employment growth is losing momentum. *That could be because the economy is nearing full employment, which should lead to the kind of wage growth that puts more money in people's pockets; alternatively, that slowdown could suggest the U.S. is starting to cool, chilled by a broader decline in the global economy.*

*Layoffs. Far fewer Americans are filing for unemployment benefits these days* -- *in fact, the level of claims are at the lowest level since the early 1970s.* Coupled with the decent job growth this year, along with data showing that more people are quitting their jobs because they're confident they can find a new one, the decline in layoffs is another sign the labor market remains in good shape.

*Wages.* *Consumers account for nearly 70 percent of economic activity in the U.S., so how fast workers' pay is rising is among the most important benchmarks of economic performance. In June, median average annual wage growth reached 3.6 percent, up sharply from 1.6 percent when the economy was bottoming out in early 2010.* Other measures suggest wage growth is less robust, but economists generally expect it to pick up in the second half of the year, driven by healthy employment gains.

*Income. Trump's claim that median household income in the U.S. is *$4,000 lower than in 2000 are misleading. Indeed, Americans have regained much of the financial ground they lost during the recession. The median annual household income (adjusted for inflation) as of June was $57,206, up 2.5 percent from last year's figure, according to an analysis of Census data by Sentier Research. What is true, by contrast, is that income growth during the recovery has been negligible. After hitting a low in 2011, family income is essentially at the same level as in December 2007 ($57,147), when the recession officially started; it's up a meager 2 percent since the downturn ended in June 2009 ($56,101). For most people, that feels like a treadmill.

*Growth.* During the recovery, gross domestic product -- the broadest measure of how the economy is doing -- has been stuck between 2 percent and 2.5 percent. That's not great. Historically, U.S. GDP growth has averaged around 3 percent, and at times it has surged above 4 percent, most recently during the 1990s technology boom. The reasons for the historically weak growth are complex and not fully understood, although many experts point to slowing productivity, a sign the economy is less dynamic than it was in past. Is there a way to turn things around? Yes, but that will likely require concerted fiscal and monetary policy action, a tall order when our political leaders are so divided.
*
Misery. *The so-called Misery Index combines the nation's unemployment and inflation rates, rising as jobs vanish and prices spike. The index peaked in 1980, at 20.76, under President Jimmy Carter, as the country wrestled with both high unemployment and surging inflation. *With inflation muted and the jobless rate low, the index today is at 5.4, below even where it stood when the economy was growing fast in the late '90s. *

*Poverty. *As of the late 1950s, more than 22 percent of Americans lived in poverty. That figure declined to roughly 11 percent in 1973, as the government pumped billions of dollars into alleviating a range of economic and social ills. Since 1980, though, the poverty rate has been on the rise, and the five official U.S. recessions since then have only accelerated it. As of 2014, nearly 15 percent of Americans, or roughly 47 million people, lived below the poverty line. Children have it worse, with more than 1 in 5 living in poverty.

The data above suggest that the economy isn't as bleak as Trump maintains. But things also aren't as rosy as some of his Democratic critics contend. More important, these numbers don't tell the whole story, offering only an approximation of what life is like for those who have fallen through the statistical cracks or who, while drawing a paycheck, grapple with financial insecurity. Nor do they capture the corrosive economic toll of rising inequality in the U.S.

One recent trend that reveals the contours of this "other economy": For the first time in more than a century, millions of Americans have seen their life expectancy slip in recent years, largely because of a rise in suicides and substance abuse. The cause? A growing sense of despair, some experts think.
The economy may not be the abject failure Trump insists it is, but by some measures the picture certainly isn't pretty.


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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> Meanwhile, Hillary is very close to picking up her VP, I hope it’s going to be Sen. Tim Kaine.


Hooray, finally, Hillary selects Sen. Tim Kaine, a well respected centrist senator from a battleground state of Virginia, an excellent choice.

He has an impressive resume, is a graduate of Harvard law school, started his career as a civil rights attorney, was mayor of Richmond, governor of Virginia, chairman of the Democratic National Committee and was elected to the U.S. Senate from Virginia. He serves on the powerful Armed Service, Foreign Relations and Budget committees.

According to his official website, he is one of 20 Americans to have been a mayor, governor and US Senator and has never lost an election.

What really impresses me about him is that he has attended a black church for the last 30 years, speaks fluent Spanish and has been a civil right attorney, has traveled a lot as a senator and has tremendous knowledge of important foreign affairs issues and he’s truly a great American who represents the best of us.


Here is more about Sen. Tim:

Sen. Tim Kaine


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## RabzonKhan

*Donald Trump is a unique threat to American democracy*
*
By Editorial Board July 22 2016
*
*DONALD J. TRUMP, until now a Republican problem, this week became a challenge the nation must confront and overcome. The real estate tycoon is uniquely unqualified to serve as president, in experience and temperament. He is mounting a campaign of snarl and sneer, not substance. To the extent he has views, they are wrong in their diagnosis of America’s problems and dangerous in their proposed solutions. Mr. Trump’s politics of denigration and division could strain the bonds that have held a diverse nation together. His contempt for constitutional norms might reveal the nation’s two-century-old experiment in checks and balances to be more fragile than we knew.*

Any one of these characteristics would be disqualifying; together, they make Mr. Trump a peril. We recognize that this is not the usual moment to make such a statement. In an ordinary election year, we would acknowledge the Republican nominee, move on to the Democratic convention and spend the following months, like other voters, evaluating the candidates’ performance in debates, on the stump and in position papers. This year we will follow the campaign as always, offering honest views on all the candidates.* But we cannot salute the Republican nominee or pretend that we might endorse him this fall. A Trump presidency would be dangerous for the nation and the world.*

Why are we so sure? Start with experience. It has been 64 years since a major party nominated anyone for president who did not have electoral experience. That experiment turned out pretty well — but Mr. Trump, to put it mildly, is no Dwight David Eisenhower. Leading the Allied campaign to liberate Europe from the Nazis required strategic and political skills of the first order, and Eisenhower — though he liked to emphasize his common touch as he faced the intellectual Democrat Adlai Stevenson — was shrewd, diligent, humble and thoughtful.

In contrast, there is nothing on Mr. Trump’s résumé to suggest he could function successfully in Washington. *He was staked in the family business by a well-to-do father and has pursued a career marked by some real estate successes, some failures and repeated episodes of saving his own hide while harming people who trusted him. Given his continuing refusal to release his tax returns, breaking with a long bipartisan tradition, it is only reasonable to assume there are aspects of his record even more discreditable than what we know.*

The lack of experience might be overcome if Mr. Trump saw it as a handicap worth overcoming. But he displays no curiosity, reads no books and appears to believe he needs no advice. In fact, what makes Mr. Trump so unusual is his combination of extreme neediness and unbridled arrogance. He is desperate for affirmation but contemptuous of other views. *He also is contemptuous of fact. Throughout the campaign, he has unspooled one lie after another — that Muslims in New Jersey celebrated after 9/11, that his tax-cut plan would not worsen the deficit, that he opposed the Iraq War before it started — and when confronted with contrary evidence, he simply repeats the lie. It is impossible to know whether he convinces himself of his own untruths or knows that he is wrong and does not care. It is also difficult to know which trait would be more frightening in a commander in chief.*

*Given his ignorance, it is perhaps not surprising that Mr. Trump offers no coherence when it comes to policy. In years past, he supported immigration reform, gun control and legal abortion; as candidate, he became a hard-line opponent of all three.* Even in the course of the campaign, he has flip-flopped on issues such as whether Muslims should be banned from entering the United States and whether women who have abortions should be punished . *Worse than the flip-flops is the absence of any substance in his agenda. Existing *trade deals are “stupid,” but Mr. Trump does not say how they could be improved. The Islamic State must be destroyed, but the candidate offers no strategy for doing so. Eleven million undocumented immigrants must be deported, but Mr. Trump does not tell us how he would accomplish this legally or practically.

What the candidate does offer is a series of prejudices and gut feelings, most of them erroneous. Allies are taking advantage of the United States. Immigrants are committing crimes and stealing jobs. Muslims hate America. In fact, Japan and South Korea are major contributors to an alliance that has preserved a peace of enormous benefit to Americans. *Immigrants commit fewer crimes than native-born Americans and take jobs that no one else will. Muslims are the primary victims of Islamist terrorism, and Muslim Americans, including thousands who have served in the military, are as patriotic as anyone else.*

_[Fareed Zakaria: America would be Trump’s banana republic]_

The Trump litany of victimization has resonated with many Americans whose economic prospects have stagnated. They deserve a serious champion, and the challenges of inequality and slow wage growth deserve a serious response. But Mr. Trump has nothing positive to offer, only scapegoats and dark conspiracy theories. He launched his campaign by accusing Mexico of sending rapists across the border, and similar hatefulness has surfaced numerous times in the year since.

*In a dangerous world, Mr. Trump speaks blithely of abandoning NATO, encouraging more nations to obtain nuclear weapons and cozying up to dictators who in fact wish the United States nothing but harm. For eight years, Republicans have criticized President Obama for “apologizing” for America and for weakening alliances. Now they put forward a candidate who mimics the vilest propaganda of authoritarian adversaries about how terrible the United States is and how unfit it is to lecture others.* He has made clear that he would drop allies without a second thought. The consequences to global security could be disastrous.

Most alarming is Mr. Trump’s contempt for the Constitution and the unwritten democratic norms upon which our system depends. He doesn’t know what is in the nation’s founding document. When asked by a member of Congress about Article I, which enumerates congressional powers, the candidate responded, “I am going to abide by the Constitution whether it’s number 1, number 2, number 12, number 9.” The charter has seven articles.

Worse, he doesn’t seem to care about its limitations on executive power. He has threatened that those who criticize him will suffer when he is president. He has vowed to torture suspected terrorists and bomb their innocent relatives, no matter the illegality of either act. He has vowed to constrict the independent press. He went after a judge whose rulings angered him, exacerbating his contempt for the independence of the judiciary by insisting that the judge should be disqualified because of his Mexican heritage. Mr. Trump has encouraged and celebrated violence at his rallies. The U.S. democratic system is strong and has proved resilient when it has been tested before. We have faith in it. But to elect Mr. Trump would be to knowingly subject it to threat.

Mr. Trump campaigns by insult and denigration, insinuation and wild accusation: Ted Cruz’s father was involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy; Hillary Clinton may be guilty of murder; Mr. Obama is a traitor who wants Muslims to attack. *The Republican Party has moved the lunatic fringe onto center stage, with discourse that renders impossible the kind of substantive debate upon which any civil democracy depends.*

Most responsible Republican leaders know all this to be true; that is why Mr. Trump had to rely so heavily on testimonials by relatives and employees during this week’s Republican convention. With one exception (Bob Dole), the living Republican presidents and presidential nominees of the past three decades all stayed away. But most current officeholders, even those who declared Mr. Trump to be an unthinkable choice only months ago, have lost the courage to speak out.

*The party’s failure of judgment leaves the nation’s future where it belongs, in the hands of voters. Many Americans do not like either candidate this year . We have criticized the presumptive Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton, in the past and will do so again when warranted. But we do not believe that she (or the Libertarian and Green party candidates, for that matter) represents a threat to the Constitution. Mr. Trump is a unique and present danger.*

*
*

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## Nilgiri

Look at this disgusting individual cracking a joke (and the disgusting media laughing along with him) when responding to a horrific incident that was unfolding:






http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...talk-daughter-Malia-leaving-nest-college.html

Hillary will be Obama term 3 but with a PROVEN record of corruption and crime. Does anyone sensible want that?

@Desert Fox @Vergennes

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## ultron

Obama lost several states in the 2012 election compared to the 2008 election. Democrats lose more states in the 2016 election and lose election when they lose Virginia, Ohio, Florida.

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## Darmashkian

Nilgiri said:


> Look at this disgusting individual cracking a joke (and the disgusting media laughing along with him) when responding to a horrific incident that was unfolding:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...talk-daughter-Malia-leaving-nest-college.html
> 
> Hillary will be Obama term 3 but with a PROVEN record of corruption and crime. Does anyone sensible want that?
> 
> @Desert Fox @Vergennes


@Desert Fox
*Had Donald Trump done anything like that, the entire liberal MSM & liberal personalities across the USA & across the world (comedians,actors,companies etc) would have called him a shameless, disgusting, heartless ,monstrous creature at the very least.*

The entire EU bureaucracy/leadership would have come out against him with Germans in the lead!!
Merkel or the German Cabinet Minister would have addressed a press conference lambasting him & that such a serious issue is nothing to laugh about. 
-----
But now that Obama-the black liberal hero does it:-

" It's so "Coooollll" of him, so calm,so in control of the situation, so humorous & relaxing. What an amazing president we/those Americans have."  

You think this is disgusting?? You are a RACIST, you evil hate-filled bigot!! @Nilgiri

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I won't comment about that last line, HC & DT both are bad. DT has no experience of policy,is too mercurial. He seems to be a total dilettante when it comes to Foreign Policy & doesn't believe in Climate chance.

& HC... well we all know her multiple flaws. How evil,"Careless" & corrupt she is. She seems to be the sort of person who could invade Russia for the sake of democracy or NATO.

P.S:- She took chanda from Amar Singh & Sant Singh Chatwal directly through her foundation for supporting the Indo-US nuclear deal & to get rid of the sanctions her own hubbie had imposed on us.  How "flexible" of her.



RabzonKhan said:


> *Donald Trump is a unique threat to American democracy
> 
> By Editorial Board July 22 2016
> *
> *DONALD J. TRUMP, until now a Republican problem, this week became a challenge the nation must confront and overcome. The real estate tycoon is uniquely unqualified to serve as president, in experience and temperament. He is mounting a campaign of snarl and sneer, not substance. To the extent he has views, they are wrong in their diagnosis of America’s problems and dangerous in their proposed solutions. Mr. Trump’s politics of denigration and division could strain the bonds that have held a diverse nation together. His contempt for constitutional norms might reveal the nation’s two-century-old experiment in checks and balances to be more fragile than we knew.*
> 
> Any one of these characteristics would be disqualifying; together, they make Mr. Trump a peril. We recognize that this is not the usual moment to make such a statement. In an ordinary election year, we would acknowledge the Republican nominee, move on to the Democratic convention and spend the following months, like other voters, evaluating the candidates’ performance in debates, on the stump and in position papers. This year we will follow the campaign as always, offering honest views on all the candidates.* But we cannot salute the Republican nominee or pretend that we might endorse him this fall. A Trump presidency would be dangerous for the nation and the world.*
> 
> Why are we so sure? Start with experience. It has been 64 years since a major party nominated anyone for president who did not have electoral experience. That experiment turned out pretty well — but Mr. Trump, to put it mildly, is no Dwight David Eisenhower. Leading the Allied campaign to liberate Europe from the Nazis required strategic and political skills of the first order, and Eisenhower — though he liked to emphasize his common touch as he faced the intellectual Democrat Adlai Stevenson — was shrewd, diligent, humble and thoughtful.
> 
> In contrast, there is nothing on Mr. Trump’s résumé to suggest he could function successfully in Washington. *He was staked in the family business by a well-to-do father and has pursued a career marked by some real estate successes, some failures and repeated episodes of saving his own hide while harming people who trusted him. Given his continuing refusal to release his tax returns, breaking with a long bipartisan tradition, it is only reasonable to assume there are aspects of his record even more discreditable than what we know.*
> 
> The lack of experience might be overcome if Mr. Trump saw it as a handicap worth overcoming. But he displays no curiosity, reads no books and appears to believe he needs no advice. In fact, what makes Mr. Trump so unusual is his combination of extreme neediness and unbridled arrogance. He is desperate for affirmation but contemptuous of other views. *He also is contemptuous of fact. Throughout the campaign, he has unspooled one lie after another — that Muslims in New Jersey celebrated after 9/11, that his tax-cut plan would not worsen the deficit, that he opposed the Iraq War before it started — and when confronted with contrary evidence, he simply repeats the lie. It is impossible to know whether he convinces himself of his own untruths or knows that he is wrong and does not care. It is also difficult to know which trait would be more frightening in a commander in chief.*
> 
> *Given his ignorance, it is perhaps not surprising that Mr. Trump offers no coherence when it comes to policy. In years past, he supported immigration reform, gun control and legal abortion; as candidate, he became a hard-line opponent of all three.* Even in the course of the campaign, he has flip-flopped on issues such as whether Muslims should be banned from entering the United States and whether women who have abortions should be punished . *Worse than the flip-flops is the absence of any substance in his agenda. Existing *trade deals are “stupid,” but Mr. Trump does not say how they could be improved. The Islamic State must be destroyed, but the candidate offers no strategy for doing so. Eleven million undocumented immigrants must be deported, but Mr. Trump does not tell us how he would accomplish this legally or practically.
> 
> What the candidate does offer is a series of prejudices and gut feelings, most of them erroneous. Allies are taking advantage of the United States. Immigrants are committing crimes and stealing jobs. Muslims hate America. In fact, Japan and South Korea are major contributors to an alliance that has preserved a peace of enormous benefit to Americans. *Immigrants commit fewer crimes than native-born Americans and take jobs that no one else will. Muslims are the primary victims of Islamist terrorism, and Muslim Americans, including thousands who have served in the military, are as patriotic as anyone else.*
> 
> _[Fareed Zakaria: America would be Trump’s banana republic]_
> 
> The Trump litany of victimization has resonated with many Americans whose economic prospects have stagnated. They deserve a serious champion, and the challenges of inequality and slow wage growth deserve a serious response. But Mr. Trump has nothing positive to offer, only scapegoats and dark conspiracy theories. He launched his campaign by accusing Mexico of sending rapists across the border, and similar hatefulness has surfaced numerous times in the year since.
> 
> *In a dangerous world, Mr. Trump speaks blithely of abandoning NATO, encouraging more nations to obtain nuclear weapons and cozying up to dictators who in fact wish the United States nothing but harm. For eight years, Republicans have criticized President Obama for “apologizing” for America and for weakening alliances. Now they put forward a candidate who mimics the vilest propaganda of authoritarian adversaries about how terrible the United States is and how unfit it is to lecture others.* He has made clear that he would drop allies without a second thought. The consequences to global security could be disastrous.
> 
> Most alarming is Mr. Trump’s contempt for the Constitution and the unwritten democratic norms upon which our system depends. He doesn’t know what is in the nation’s founding document. When asked by a member of Congress about Article I, which enumerates congressional powers, the candidate responded, “I am going to abide by the Constitution whether it’s number 1, number 2, number 12, number 9.” The charter has seven articles.
> 
> Worse, he doesn’t seem to care about its limitations on executive power. He has threatened that those who criticize him will suffer when he is president. He has vowed to torture suspected terrorists and bomb their innocent relatives, no matter the illegality of either act. He has vowed to constrict the independent press. He went after a judge whose rulings angered him, exacerbating his contempt for the independence of the judiciary by insisting that the judge should be disqualified because of his Mexican heritage. Mr. Trump has encouraged and celebrated violence at his rallies. The U.S. democratic system is strong and has proved resilient when it has been tested before. We have faith in it. But to elect Mr. Trump would be to knowingly subject it to threat.
> 
> Mr. Trump campaigns by insult and denigration, insinuation and wild accusation: Ted Cruz’s father was involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy; Hillary Clinton may be guilty of murder; Mr. Obama is a traitor who wants Muslims to attack. *The Republican Party has moved the lunatic fringe onto center stage, with discourse that renders impossible the kind of substantive debate upon which any civil democracy depends.*
> 
> Most responsible Republican leaders know all this to be true; that is why Mr. Trump had to rely so heavily on testimonials by relatives and employees during this week’s Republican convention. With one exception (Bob Dole), the living Republican presidents and presidential nominees of the past three decades all stayed away. But most current officeholders, even those who declared Mr. Trump to be an unthinkable choice only months ago, have lost the courage to speak out.
> 
> *The party’s failure of judgment leaves the nation’s future where it belongs, in the hands of voters. Many Americans do not like either candidate this year . We have criticized the presumptive Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton, in the past and will do so again when warranted. But we do not believe that she (or the Libertarian and Green party candidates, for that matter) represents a threat to the Constitution. Mr. Trump is a unique and present danger.*



How many articles have this same/similar headline? I've seen about 5-7 in the last few days #justaquestion #notbeingsarcastic



RabzonKhan said:


> Certainly, Trump had conservatives in mind for picking, Pence, how this move plays out is yet to be seen. I think our good conservative friend, @Desertfalcon can shed some light on the issue.
> 
> According to the US Census Bureau data 52.1% of the electorates are females, and as many polls have shown that Hillary has an edge over Trump with the women voters, without narrowing that huge gap, I don’t think Trump has a chance to win the White House.


Disagree with the last line mate. & so does Nate Silver


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/756681961809272832
I have observed,seen & written about politics & politicians around the world especially in South Asia. I have seen some of the most ruthless,pragmatic,unimaginable moves which have been made & which have both suceeded & failed.

& I firmly believe that DOnald trump depite his numerous flaws,mistakes & unorthodox moves has a chance at winning. It's not high now but it is far from zero. & the fact that Hillary Clinton is his opponent makes it easier for him to win.

& seeing the latest mails released by WIkileaks which prove the DNC was in cahoot with HC & tried to stop Sanders. I see Hillary losing many Sanders voters whom I doubt will vote for her now even if Sanders starts campaigning for her.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/756986818340397056
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wikileaks-dnc-bernie-sanders_us_579381fbe4b02d5d5ed1d157

This could lead to a huge loss in credibility for the DNC & for Debbie Schultz especially.

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## CBU-105

24/07/2016 

5 reasons Trump is going to win:

*1. Midwest Math, or Welcome to Our Rust Belt Brexit.* I believe Trump is going to focus much of his attention on the four blue states in the rustbelt of the upper Great Lakes - Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Four traditionally Democratic states - but each of them have elected a *Republican* governor since 2010 (only Pennsylvania has now finally elected a Democrat). In the Michigan primary in March, more Michiganders came out to vote for the Republicans (1.32 million) that the Democrats (1.19 million). Trump is ahead of Hillary in the latest polls in Pennsylvania and tied with her in Ohio. Tied? How can the race be this close after everything Trump has said and done? Well maybe it's because he's said (correctly) that the Clintons' support of NAFTA helped to destroy the industrial states of the Upper Midwest. Trump is going to hammer Clinton on this and her support of TPP and other trade policies that have royally screwed the people of these four states. When Trump stood in the shadow of a Ford Motor factory during the Michigan primary, he threatened the corporation that if they did indeed go ahead with their planned closure of that factory and move it to Mexico, he would slap a 35% tariff on any Mexican-built cars shipped back to the United States. It was sweet, sweet music to the ears of the working class of Michigan, and when he tossed in his threat to Apple that he would force them to stop making their iPhones in China and build them here in America, well, hearts swooned and Trump walked away with a big victory that should have gone to the governor next-door, John Kasich.

From Green Bay to Pittsburgh, this, my friends, is the middle of England - broken, depressed, struggling, the smokestacks strewn across the countryside with the carcass of what we use to call the Middle Class. Angry, embittered working (and nonworking) people who were lied to by the trickle-down of Reagan and abandoned by Democrats who still try to talk a good line but are really just looking forward to rub one out with a lobbyist from Goldman Sachs who'll write them nice big check before leaving the room. What happened in the UK with Brexit is going to happen here. Elmer Gantry shows up looking like Boris Johnson and just says whatever shit he can make up to convince the masses that _this is their chance! To stick to ALL of them, all who wrecked their American Dream! And now The Outsider, Donald Trump, has arrived to clean house! You don't have to agree with him! You don't even have to like him! He is your personal Molotov cocktail to throw right into the center of the bastards who did this to you! SEND A MESSAGE! TRUMP IS YOUR MESSENGER!_


And this is where the math comes in. In 2012, Mitt Romney lost by 64 electoral votes. Add up the electoral votes cast by Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. It's 64. All Trump needs to do to win is to carry, as he's expected to do, the swath of traditional red states from Idaho to Georgia (states that'll *never* vote for Hillary Clinton), and then he just needs these four rust belt states. He doesn't need Florida. He doesn't need Colorado or Virginia. Just Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. And that will put him over the top. This is how it will happen in November.

*2. The Last Stand of the Angry White Man*. Our male-dominated, 240-year run of the USA is coming to an end. A woman is about to take over! How did this happen?! _On *our* watch!_ There were warning signs, but we ignored them. Nixon, the gender traitor, imposing Title IX on us, the rule that said girls in school should get an equal chance at playing sports. Then they let them fly commercial jets. Before we knew it, Beyoncé stormed on the field at this year's Super Bowl (our game!) with an army of Black Women, fists raised, declaring that our domination was hereby terminated! Oh, the humanity!

That's a small peek into the mind of the Endangered White Male. There is a sense that the power has slipped out of their hands, that their way of doing things is no longer how things are done. This monster, the "Feminazi,"the thing that as Trump says, "bleeds through her eyes or wherever she bleeds," has conquered us -- and now, after having had to endure eight years of a black man telling us what to do, we're supposed to just sit back and take eight years of a woman bossing us around? After that it'll be eight years of the gays in the White House! Then the transgenders! You can see where this is going. By then animals will have been granted human rights and a fuckin' hamster is going to be running the country. This has to stop!

*3. The Hillary Problem. *Can we speak honestly, just among ourselves? And before we do, let me state, I actually like Hillary - a lot - and I think she has been given a bad rap she doesn't deserve. But her vote for the Iraq War made me promise her that I would never vote for her again. To date, I haven't broken that promise. For the sake of preventing a proto-fascist from becoming our commander-in-chief, I'm breaking that promise. I sadly believe Clinton will find a way to get us in some kind of military action. She's a hawk, to the right of Obama. But Trump's psycho finger will be on The Button, and that is that. Done and done.

Let's face it: Our biggest problem here isn't Trump - it's Hillary. She is hugely unpopular -- nearly 70% of all voters think she is untrustworthy and dishonest. She represents the old way of politics, not really believing in anything other than what can get you elected. That's why she fights against gays getting married one moment, and the next she's officiating a gay marriage. Young women are among her biggest detractors, which has to hurt considering it's the sacrifices and the battles that Hillary and other women of her generation endured so that this younger generation would never have to be told by the Barbara Bushes of the world that they should just shut up and go bake some cookies. But the kids don't like her, and not a day goes by that a millennial doesn't tell me they aren't voting for her. No Democrat, and certainly no independent, is waking up on November 8th excited to run out and vote for Hillary the way they did the day Obama became president or when Bernie was on the primary ballot. The enthusiasm just isn't there. And because this election is going to come down to just one thing -- who drags the most people out of the house and gets them to the polls -- Trump right now is in the catbird seat.

*4. The Depressed Sanders Vote*. Stop fretting about Bernie's supporters not voting for Clinton - we're voting for Clinton! The polls already show that more Sanders voters will vote for Hillary this year than the number of Hillary primary voters in '08 who then voted for Obama. This is not the problem. The fire alarm that should be going off is that while the average Bernie backer will drag him/herself to the polls that day to somewhat reluctantly vote for Hillary, it will be what's called a "depressed vote" - meaning the voter doesn't bring five people to vote with her. He doesn't volunteer 10 hours in the month leading up to the election. She never talks in an excited voice when asked why she's voting for Hillary. A depressed voter. Because, when you're young, you have zero tolerance for phonies and BS. Returning to the Clinton/Bush era for them is like suddenly having to pay for music, or using MySpace or carrying around one of those big-*** portable phones. They're not going to vote for Trump; some will vote third party, but many will just stay home. Hillary Clinton is going to have to do something to give them a reason to support her -- and picking a moderate, bland-o, middle of the road old white guy as her running mate is not the kind of edgy move that tells millenials that their vote is important to Hillary. Having two women on the ticket - that was an exciting idea. But then Hillary got scared and has decided to play it safe. This is just one example of how she is killing the youth vote.

*5. The Jesse Ventura Effect.* Finally, do not discount the electorate's ability to be mischievous or underestimate how any millions fancy themselves as closet anarchists once they draw the curtain and are all alone in the voting booth. It's one of the few places left in society where there are no security cameras, no listening devices, no spouses, no kids, no boss, no cops, there's not even a friggin' time limit. You can take as long as you need in there and no one can make you do anything. You can push the button and vote a straight party line, or you can write in Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck. There are no rules. And because of that, and the anger that so many have toward a broken political system, millions are going to vote for Trump not because they agree with him, not because they like his bigotry or ego, but just because they can. Just because it will upset the apple cart and make mommy and daddy mad. And in the same way like when you're standing on the edge of Niagara Falls and your mind wonders for a moment what would that feel like to go over that thing, a lot of people are going to love being in the position of puppetmaster and plunking down for Trump just to see what that might look like. Remember back in the '90s when the people of Minnesota elected a professional wrestler as their governor? They didn't do this because they're stupid or thought that Jesse Ventura was some sort of statesman or political intellectual. They did so just because they could. Minnesota is one of the smartest states in the country. It is also filled with people who have a dark sense of humor -- and voting for Ventura was their version of a good practical joke on a sick political system. This is going to happen again with Trump.

Coming back to the hotel after appearing on Bill Maher's Republican Convention special this week on HBO, a man stopped me. "Mike," he said, "we have to vote for Trump. We HAVE to shake things up." That was it. That was enough for him. To "shake things up." President Trump would indeed do just that, and a good chunk of the electorate would like to sit in the bleachers and watch that reality show.

(Next week I will post my thoughts on Trump's Achilles Heel and how I think he can be beat.)

5 Reasons Why Trump Will Win, by Michael Moore on huffington post. 

Trump is up in new polling:






uasdata usc edu/ data/ election-poll

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## RabzonKhan

Embarrassing, Trump was shedding crocodile tears over the DNC WikiLeaks, slamming DNC for “vicious plan to destroy” Bernie, but Bernie Sanders was not buying his BS. In an interview to the ABC news he snubbed Trump. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/757204196147929088


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## ultron

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...mp-up-in-battleground-states-after-convention


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## Darmashkian

These are amusing =D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=RDW7I92r9GqUw&v=QTbkbH3x7LQ





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My view of HC.
Sorry; I know Trump is bad,but HC too is nowhere near to being neutral forget being good.






---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@RabzonKhan @Nilgiri @JanjaWeed
Check these websites out
(A)Here you can make your own electoral maps
www.270towin.com
-----------------------
(B)& check Nate Silver's Forecast now. You HAVE to take a look at this.

*If you take a polls only forecast in the options:-
He is giving Hillary a 53.7% chance of winning & 46.2% to Donald Trump!!*
[My God, I never imagined it would be so close when 100 days are still left]

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Trump is narrowly winning Iowa,Florida,North Carolina,New Hampshire,Nevada & Ohio!!

While HC is narrowly winning Virginia,Colorado,Pennsylvania,Maine & easily retains Michigan & Wisconsin!!
[Arizona & Georgia still remain Republican]

& is that Minnesota which looks pale blue!! The same liberal bastion which voted against Reagan in 1984!! MY GOD!

--------------------------
I just replicated the above map on 270towin.com & guess the resultss??

*269 for both sides!!!*

*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
& this is the Polls Plus Model Option:-*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/757559058924699648*



*

& this is if elections were held RIGHT NOW:-

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/757558402667188224






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/757565933573603332

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## Nilgiri

Darmashkian said:


> These are amusing =D
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=RDW7I92r9GqUw&v=QTbkbH3x7LQ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> My view of HC.
> Sorry; I know Trump is bad,but HC too is nowhere near to being neutral forget being good.
> View attachment 320558
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> @RabzonKhan @Nilgiri @JanjaWeed
> Check these websites out
> (A)Here you can make your own electoral maps
> www.270towin.com
> -----------------------
> (B)& check Nate Silver's Forecast now. You HAVE to take a look at this.
> 
> *If you take a polls only forecast in the options:-
> He is giving Hillary a 53.7% chance of winning & 46.2% to Donald Trump!!*
> [My God, I never imagined it would be so close when 100 days are still left]
> 
> http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/
> 
> Trump is narrowly winning Iowa,Florida,North Carolina,New Hampshire,Nevada & Ohio!!
> 
> While HC is narrowly winning Virginia,Colorado,Pennsylvania,Maine & easily retains Michigan & Wisconsin!!
> [Arizona & Georgia still remain Republican]
> 
> & is that Minnesota which looks pale blue!! The same liberal bastion which voted against Reagan in 1984!! MY GOD!
> 
> --------------------------
> I just replicated the above map on 270towin.com & guess the resultss??
> 
> *269 for both sides!!!*
> 
> *----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> & this is the Polls Plus Model Option:-*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/757559058924699648*
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> & this is if elections were held RIGHT NOW:-
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/757558402667188224
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/757565933573603332



The best part with the trump 300 video was the part with cruz as the hunchback

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## RabzonKhan

*The 2016 Democratic National Convention will be held at the Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia July 25th-28th, 2016.




*
The First Lady of the United States is set to headline Monday night’s event at the Wells Fargo Center.







The Vermont senator, who was Clinton’s main rival throughout the primaries, will address the convention.







The DNC announced early Monday morning that the Massachusetts senator Elizabeth Warren will serve as the convention’s keynote speaker. Where the theme of the day will focus on putting American families.









Darmashkian said:


> *& this is the Polls Plus Model Option:-*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/757559058924699648*
> 
> 
> 
> *


I also follow Nate Silver and I think polls -plus is more accurate than the polls –only.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/757565933573603332


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## jha

Thousands of "Bernie or, Bust" people out there. They are e even booing Bernie at times.Hillary has a tough fight on her hands.

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## Nilgiri

*US election: Sanders supporters boo call to back Clinton*

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-36885783

Thank you Russia for b1tch slapping the hell out of the democrats and their rigged system:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...gn-blames-russia-wikileaks-sanders-dnc-emails

Hillary Clinton campaign blames leaked DNC emails about Sanders on Russia

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/24/politics/dnc-email-leak-wikileaks/

What was in the DNC email leak?






I bet you the Russians are waiting for the DNC to be over and then release what they exactly hacked from Hillary's private UNSECURED server to further sink this dumb corrupt hag.

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## CBU-105



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## SALMAN F

Trump for president

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## ultron

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-poll/


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## RabzonKhan

*Democratic National Convention 2016*



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/757783077217193985


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/757778172205203456


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/757777047523557376


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/757776714273546241


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/757774363458433024


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/757769901402681344


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## Parul

@RabzonKhan Bro who's running ahead at the moment Trump or Hillary Aunty?


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## Desert Fox

The Democrat's are a mess. Trump is leading in the polls!

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## Desert Fox

Parul said:


> @RabzonKhan Bro who's running ahead at the moment Trump or Hillary Aunty?



Trump's leading by a good margin.

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## Desert Fox

The Democrat voter base is pissed at their party for cheating their favorite candidate Sanders in favor of wall street & Saudi puppet Hillary.

And they're even more pissed at Bernie Sanders for betraying them by endorsing crooked Hillary

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Embarrassing, Trump was shedding crocodile tears over the DNC WikiLeaks, slamming DNC for “vicious plan to destroy” Bernie, but Bernie Sanders was not buying his BS. In an interview to the ABC news he snubbed Trump.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/757204196147929088



Trump doesn't need Bernie's endorsement, his message is aimed at Bernie's alienated supporters.

If Bernie's endorsement meant anything he wouldn't be getting booed by his own (alienated) supporters when he tried to convince them to support Hillary

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## Nilgiri

Parul said:


> @RabzonKhan Bro who's running ahead at the moment Trump or Hillary Aunty?



Trump ahead right now. Expect the lead to sustain/increase 
BTW, nice to see you back!

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## RabzonKhan

*Elizabeth Warren Blows The Roof Off The Democratic Convention By Destroying Trump*

"Sen. Warren said:

Trump thinks he can win votes by fanning the flames of fear and hatred. By turning neighbor against neighbor. By persuading you that the real problem in America is your fellow Americans – people who don’t look like you, or don’t talk l ike you, or don’t worship like you…”

*That’s Donald Trump’s America. An America of fear and hate. An America where we all break apart. Whites against Blacks and Latinos. Christians against Muslims and Jews. Straight against gay. Everyone against immigrants. Race, religion, heritage, gender – the more factions the better.*

But ask yourself this. When white workers in Ohio are pitted against black workers in North Carolina, or Latino workers in Florida – who really benefits?" *Link*




*Bernie Sanders Comes Up Big With A Beautiful Farewell Speech At Democratic Convention*

I understand that many people here in this convention hall and around the country are disappointed about the final results of the nominating process. I think it’s fair to say that no one is more disappointed than I am. But to all of our supporters – here and around the country – I hope you take enormous pride in the historical accomplishments we have achieved.

Together, my friends, we have begun a political revolution to transform America and that revolution – our revolution – continues. Election days come and go. But the struggle of the people to create a government which represents all of us and not just the 1 percent – a government based on the principles of economic, social, racial and environmental justice – that struggle continues. And I look forward to being part of that struggle with you.

Sen. Sanders contrasted Clinton and Trump, and he made the case for why his supporters should vote for Hillary Clinton.

Sanders saved the best for last:

*Our job now is to see that platform implemented by a Democratic Senate, a Democratic House and a Hillary Clinton presidency – and I am going to do everything I can to make that happen*. Link






Parul said:


> @RabzonKhan Bro who's running ahead at the moment Trump or Hillary Aunty?


Parul, in some new polls Trump has a small lead over Hillary, I think two factors have played a role in it, first, FBI report on Hillary’s private email issue and second, Trump certainly has gotten a bump in the polls after the Republican convention, but that was not surprising, historically, each presidential candidates typically gets a bump in the polls after the conventions.

But as I have said many times, few polls here and there are not that important, one should always look at the long-term trend.

In the real clear politics polls, Trump only has a lead of +0.9, that is less than 1%. *Link*

On the other hand, in the huffpost polls, Hillary is still leading Trump with 1.2%. *Link*

Nate Silver, who is considered the guru of polling gives Hillary 59.2% chance of winning vs. 40.7% for Trump. *Link*

I think it’s just a matter of time before Hillary will retake her lead and most probably that can happen after the Democratic convention.

Cheers!



Desert Fox said:


> Trump doesn't need Bernie's endorsement, his message is aimed at Bernie's alienated supporters.
> 
> If Bernie's endorsement meant anything he wouldn't be getting booed by his own (alienated) supporters when he tried to convince them to support Hillary


Do you really think Bernie’s progressive (left-wing liberals) followers will support a vulgar fascist and his Taliban VP?! Keep on dreaming!

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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> Do you really think Bernie’s progressive (left-wing liberal) followers will support a vulgar fascist and his Taliban VP?! Keep on dreaming!



Do you think large numbers of them are going to vote Hillary anyway?  Trump just needs to ensure as many of them as possible stay at home or vote for someone else entirely if they dont vote for him. Bernie being a complete pansy sellout has helped IMMENSELY with the trump campaign. Thanks Bernie!

https://mic.com/articles/149714/ber...on-t-blame-us-if-donald-trump-wins#.uiNa1CSzr

*Bernie Sanders Supporters at the 2016 DNC: Don't Blame Us if Donald Trump Wins*

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Do you really think Bernie’s progressive (left-wing liberals) followers will support a vulgar fascist and his Taliban VP?! Keep on dreaming!



You'd be surprised how many are willing to vote for the Fascist over that Saudi tool Hillary. :Lol:

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## Desert Fox



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## JanjaWeed

Parul said:


> @RabzonKhan Bro who's running ahead at the moment Trump or Hillary Aunty?


Refer to this...updates you with latest opinion polls by every polling agency! It's pretty good, Trump managed to gain a lot after RNC. There'll be a surge in Clinton's favor soon after DNC!

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## Nilgiri

JanjaWeed said:


> There'll be a surge in Clinton's favor soon after DNC!



I doubt it will be as big given the bernie leak scandal.

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## Nilgiri



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## Nilgiri

@Desert Fox

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## JanjaWeed

JanjaWeed said:


> Refer to this...updates you with latest opinion polls by every polling agency! It's pretty good, Trump managed to gain a lot after RNC. There'll be a surge in Clinton's favor soon after DNC!


@Parul sorry..forgot to post the link..

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/elections/

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## JanjaWeed

Nilgiri said:


> I doubt it will be as big given the bernie leak scandal.


Depends how well Republicans exploits it! I'm sure FoxNews will do everything it can to gain maximum out of that fiasco!

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## Taygibay

LOLOLOLOLOL

Trump asks Russia to hack Democrats/Clinton e-mails;
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-clinton-emails.html?_r=0

Kremlin declines thinking it was an accusation.
https://www.rt.com/news/353360-russians-kremlin-dnc-hacking/

No, no, Vlad! The Donald is just that dumb!






LOLOLOLOL, Tay.​

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## CBU-105

JanjaWeed said:


> Depends how well Republicans exploits it! I'm sure FoxNews will do everything it can to gain maximum out of that fiasco!


I doubt she gets that big a bump, Trump is eating into their TV time with a packed schedule, check his Doral conference from about an hour ago, and got more events lined up today. 

Hillary is also very unlikeable, just do a google image search for the word unlikeable and see for yourself  

Trump will destroy her in the debates, get an ever bigger bump and take an unassailable ratings lead after those, can not wait for the foreign policy debate, it'll be brutal 



Taygibay said:


> LOLOLOLOLOL
> 
> Trump asks Russia to hack Democrats/Clinton e-mails;
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-clinton-emails.html?_r=0
> 
> Kremlin declines thinking it was an accusation.
> https://www.rt.com/news/353360-russians-kremlin-dnc-hacking/
> 
> No, no, Vlad! The Donald is just that dumb!
> 
> View attachment 321156
> 
> 
> LOLOLOLOL, Tay.​


no, he's not dumb, he just spun the whole thing in his favor with the press conference, "Russia, if you're listening.." 

omg brilliant, he's playing them like a fiddle, and will be rewarded with more voters, Clinton is a plastic witch, this guy is awesome !

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## Nilgiri

JanjaWeed said:


> Depends how well Republicans exploits it! I'm sure FoxNews will do everything it can to gain maximum out of that fiasco!



Fox can't hold a light to social media bro.

A full 6% of Americans have trust in their media these days!

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## Desert Fox

@Nilgiri I'm going to have to watch it when I get home. Thanks for the tag.

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## JanjaWeed

Taygibay said:


> LOLOLOLOLOL
> 
> Trump asks Russia to hack Democrats/Clinton e-mails;
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-clinton-emails.html?_r=0
> 
> Kremlin declines thinking it was an accusation.
> https://www.rt.com/news/353360-russians-kremlin-dnc-hacking/
> 
> No, no, Vlad! The Donald is just that dumb!
> 
> View attachment 321169
> 
> 
> LOLOLOLOL, Tay.​


He just knows how to shift spotlight back on him. Though his invitation to Russia sounds absolutely ridiculous, he successfully stole Hillary's thunder by shifting the media focus back on him. This week is suppose to be her week..DNC's week, just like it was his & RNC's last week. But this 'dumb' Trump had other ideas!
He had done this throughout his campaign trail right from the primaries. He even stayed & lead the news by not going to the 'news' (read FoxNews tv debate).

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## RabzonKhan

How disgusting, he is basically appealing to a foreign country to conduct espionage against his own country, this man is not fit to be the President of the United States. 


*Donald Trump encourages Russia to hack Hillary Clinton's emails*

In a whirlwind press conference from Doral, Florida, Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump told reporters that he had a message for Vladimir Putin and the Russian government: Please hack into rival Hillary Clinton’s email servers.

“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing,” he said. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. Let’s see if that happens. That will be next.”



Even his own Taliban VP has distanced himself from his criminal statement.


*Mike Pence issues separate statement on Russian hacking*
In an apparent bid to distance himself from Donald Trump’s assertion that Russia should hack Hillary Clinton’s private email servers, Indiana governor Mike Pence has issued a separate statement following Trump’s press conference this morning to “ensure there are serious consequences” for whoever hacked the Democratic National Committee’s email servers.

“The FBI will get to the bottom of who is behind the hacking,” Pence wrote. “If it is Russia and they are interfering in our elections, I can assure you both parties and the United States government will ensure there are serious consequences.
*Read more*

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## JanjaWeed

Nilgiri said:


> Fox can't hold a light to social media bro.
> 
> A full 6% of Americans have trust in their media these days!


Atleast this time around Trump was leading Fox, not other way around like it was in previous elections! They were hell bent on spoiling it for him right at the start of the primaries to prop up Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio...& he turned that negetive reporting to his advantage. It's funny to watch how Fox had to come around & start cheerleading for him!

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## Nilgiri

JanjaWeed said:


> Atleast this time around Trump was leading Fox, not other way around like it was in previous elections! They were hell bent on spoiling it for him right at the start of the primaries to prop up Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio...& he turned that negetive reporting to his advantage. It's funny to watch how Fox had to come around & start cheerleading for him!



They have little choice....they hate Crooked Hillary a lot lot more than they do Trump (underneath their facade they have put on now).

Mike Pence (trumps VP candidate) has now solidified more traditional conservative support for Trump as well more recently. Both made quite excellent speeche s in front of their veteran soldiers organisation a cpl days back.....momentum is gathering.

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## RabzonKhan

What an embarrassment this man is, now, his own party leaders are distancing themselves from his statement.


*House speaker Paul Ryan’s chief communications adviser has distanced the speaker from Donald Trump’s comments* encouraging Russia to hack Hillary Clinton’s emails and release them.

“Russia is a global menace led by a devious thug. Putin should stay out of this election,” Brendan Buck told the Guardian.

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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> What an embarrassment this man is, now, his own party leaders are distancing themselves from his statement.
> 
> 
> *House speaker Paul Ryan’s chief communications adviser has distanced the speaker from Donald Trump’s comments* encouraging Russia to hack Hillary Clinton’s emails and release them.
> 
> “Russia is a global menace led by a devious thug. Putin should stay out of this election,” Brendan Buck told the Guardian.



a) how is a chief communications advisor a "party leader"?

b) how has he referenced trump's statement directly or distanced himself directly?

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## Taygibay

The House Speaker is a de facto leader of the majority.
He needs not to be an elected member of the House and yet :
The Speaker is second in the United States presidential line of succession, after the Vice President.

The chief communication advisor holds just about the same role as the White House Press Secretary
relative to the Speaker while also keeping link with the party and party line. He's the voice of Ryan here.

He didn't attack Trump, just Russia and Putin. Keeps party line, doesn't assign blame; a soft correction.
As all comm personnel, he could however take the blame if any and be fired to protect the image of his boss.

Here's a short summary :
WASHINGTON — As Donald Trump calls on Russia to find and expose his Democratic opponent Hillary Clinton’s emails, congressional Republicans are pushing back and bashing Russia’s leader Vladamir Putin.

In a statement, Speaker Paul Ryan’s spokesman Brendan Buck said:
“Russia is a global menace led by a devious thug. Putin should stay out of this election.”

House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Ed Royce gave a similar statement to BuzzFeed News.
“The United States should not tolerate Russian meddling in November’s election. Period.”

During a press conference Wednesday morning, Trump essentially encouraged cyber espionage against Clinton.
“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” he said.
“I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”​https://www.buzzfeed.com/tariniparti/paul-ryan-spokesman-putin-should-stay-out-of-this-election?

Trump has already folded on the value of the call, BTW.

Hope it helps, Tay.

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## JanjaWeed



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## Taygibay

*^






*sigh**​

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## Desert Fox

This is what Hillary's America will look like:

Check out @NeilTurner_'s Tweet:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/758432304863834112

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## Desert Fox

Check out @realDonaldTrump's Tweet:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/758350470402408449

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Today after the Democratic speeches I feel America has hope again
Very moving speech and colorful faces

***********************************HILLARY**********************************************

And what I was more proud was no one the the attendance used a paper clip to read from like our own King Nawaz , High Royal Lowness

Tears have been flowing from my eyes by that emotional Obama speech - Thank you Obama






Azad Poll --------------------------------

-----------Hillary ---------------------------------------------- Trumpet

Latino Vote (Check) ------------------------------- Redneck 35% vote (Check)
Women Vote (Check) ------------------------------ Rich 1% vote (Check)
45% White vote (Check)
Black Vote (Check )
Muslim Vote (Check)

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## ultron

http://nypost.com/2016/07/27/trump-leading-hillary-by-largest-margin-yet-in-latest-poll/

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## jha

Can not support Trump for his rantings. But have a feeling that many people might be hiding their support for Trump during such polls. When its not "cool" to have a certain choice, people tend to lie during opinion polls. Same happened during Brexit also. Hillary better up her game, otherwise Trump has a real chance.

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## ultron

jha said:


> Can not support Trump for his rantings. But have a feeling that many people might be hiding their support for Trump during such polls. When its not "cool" to have a certain choice, people tend to lie during opinion polls. Same happened during Brexit also. Hillary better up her game, otherwise Trump has a real chance.




Trump is cool. It's cool to vote for a non politician. It's not cool to vote for a politician.

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## RabzonKhan

*The 2016 Democratic National Convention in Pictures













*
U.S. President Barack Obama hugs Hillary Clinton, 2016 Democratic presidential nominee, on stage during the convention on Wednesday night, July 27, 2016. Photographer: David Paul Morris/Bloomberg
*




*
Tim Kaine, 2016 Democratic vice presidential nominee, gestures while arriving on stage during the convention on Wednesday, July 27, 2016. Photographer: David Paul Morris/Bloomberg






Senator Bernie Sanders, an independent from Vermont, center, pauses while standing with delegates from Vermont during a roll call vote at the convention, where he moved to give Hillary Clinton the party's presidential nomination by acclamation on Tuesday, July 26, 2016.




*



*
Sebastien De La Cruz performs the national anthem at the start of day three of the convention on Wednesday, July 27, 2016. Photographer: David Paul Morris/Bloomberg

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## Desert Fox

*Trump Leading Crooked Hillary In Latest Polls:*






@Nilgiri @ultron @Falcon29​

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> *Trump Leading Crooked Hillary In Latest Polls:*
> 
> View attachment 321466
> 
> @Nilgiri @ultron @Falcon29​



May the trend continue as seen in that.

So much booing in the DNC intro videos its hillarious.

They seem to have filled the audience in with more paid hillary supporters now though hehe.

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## Sky lord

Nilgiri said:


> May the trend continue as seen in that.
> 
> So much booing in the DNC intro videos its hillarious.
> 
> They seem to have filled the audience in with more paid hillary supporters now though hehe.


You're for trump?


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## Desert Fox

*Red, white and where? What happened to the American flag at the DNC?*​By Aaron Sharockman on Wednesday, July 27th, 2016 at 2:40 p.m.

Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump noticed something on the first day of the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia.

No American flags.

"Not one American flag on the massive stage at the Democratic National Convention until people started complaining-then a small one. Pathetic," Trump tweeted July 27, 2016.

Trump said the Democrats caved and added flags after he and others noticed.

Is that true?

Well, there is some evidence to the fact.

*A false flag?*

Some people noticed the flag missing during the first day of the convention on July 25, 2016. The conservative Daily Caller wrote "No Visible American Flags Present At The Democrat Convention."

"The Daily Caller is at the Democratic National Convention Monday and *it doesn’t look like there are any American flags. The stage is bland and grey, with no red, white or blue present. A thorough look at the crowd present also turns up no American flags,"* the website wrote.

Some went further, saying the flag actually was banned at the DNC.


But what about Trump’s more-tempered claim that there was "not one American flag on the massive stage at the Democratic National Convention"?

*Capture the flag*

We’re here at the DNC and have seen American flags at the Wells Fargo Center. The issue -- to the extent that Trump and others are making it an issue -- surrounds the stage that Democrats built in Philadelphia.

The stage includes huge video boards that serve as the main visual element for delegates in the arena and viewers on TV back at home.

One of our editors, Amy Hollyfield, snapped this photo before the convention opened July 25, 2016. It shows the set-up we described … and sizable virtual American flags on the video board.

*But where Trump and some people may have a point is that there did not appear to be physical flags on the stage during the first night of the convention.*

A physical flag did appear during the Pledge of Allegiance and the National Anthem. You can see it, if you don’t believe us, at 31 minutes into this video of the convention’s proceedings.

But when the color guard left, so did the physical flag.
*

Trump also has a point that flags were added to the stage, starting with the second day of the convention July 26, 2016.*

But it wasn’t just one, and they weren’t necessarily small.

Here’s a pre-flag photo from Bernie Sanders’ speech on the first night of the convention, taken by Stephen Crowley of the _New York Times._






And here’s a photo from Ruth Fremson of the_ New York Times_ from the next night.






It may be hard to see, but the DNC did add a series of flags along the edge of the stage. You can see them in the shadows in the righthand side of the photo.

Here’s a better view. This photo was taken by Stephen Crowley, also of the_ New York Times_.






We asked DNC Communications Director Luis Miranda why flags were added to the stage Tuesday (and why they weren’t there Monday). If we hear back, we’ll let you know. We also reached out to the Trump campaign but did not hear back.

*Our ruling*

Trump said on Twitter, "Not one American flag on the massive stage at the Democratic National Convention until people started complaining-then a small one. Pathetic."

*Trump has a point that physical flags (plural) appear to have been added to the stage for the second day of the Democratic National Convention, after some stories reported the lack of flags.*

Trump is partially accurate. We rate the claim Half True.

_Update: After we published, and thanks to a reader, we came across photos from the day before the convention, July 24, that showed flags on the wings of the stage. Here is a photo of the flags from Josh Haner of the New York Times:_

*



*

_So the flags were in place before the convention started and removed for the first day ... but reappeared on July 26. We still haven't heard back from the DNC explaining what happened.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...27/donald-trump/dnc-flag-missing-controversy/_


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## LA se Karachi

This whole fiasco could have been avoided if Sanders was the nominee. Oh well, enjoy the chaos America...


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## CBU-105




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## Desert Fox

The Democratic National Convention is a *MESS!!!* Bernie supporters are rioting and charging the Police.





​
*If Hillary can't even unite her own voter base, how will she unite the country??*

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## Parul



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## Desert Fox

Parul said:


>


 Even her own husband is tired of listening to her lies.

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## CBU-105




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## RabzonKhan

What a inspiring moment, an American-Pakistani Khizr Khan, the father of Captain Humayun Khan, whose son gave his life to protect his fellow soldiers, (Khan was posthumously awarded a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart) kicked Trump on the face! 








*Transcript of the speech given by Khizr M. Khan on Thursday night at the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia:*

Tonight, we are honored to stand here as the parents of Capt. Humayun Khan, and as patriotic American Muslims with undivided loyalty to our country.

Like many immigrants, we came to this country empty-handed. We believed in American democracy — that with hard work and the goodness of this country, we could share in and contribute to its blessings.

*We were blessed to raise our three sons in a nation where they were free to be themselves and follow their dreams.*

Our son, Humayun, had dreams of being a military lawyer. But he put those dreams aside the day he sacrificed his life to save his fellow soldiers.

*Hillary Clinton was right when she called my son "the best of America."*

If it was up to Donald Trump, he never would have been in America.

Donald Trump consistently smears the character of Muslims. He disrespects other minorities, women, judges, even his own party leadership. He vows to build walls and ban us from this country.

*Donald Trump, you are asking Americans to trust you with our future. Let me ask you: Have you even read the U.S. Constitution? I will gladly lend you my copy. In this document, look for the words "liberty" and "equal protection of law."*

*Have you ever been to Arlington Cemetery? Go look at the graves of the brave patriots who died defending America — you will see all faiths, genders, and ethnicities.

You have sacrificed nothing and no one.*

We can't solve our problems by building walls and sowing division.

*We are Stronger Together.*

And we will keep getting stronger when Hillary Clinton becomes our next President.





http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/hsmkhan.htm











@Taygibay @Arsalan @Mugwop @F-22Raptor @AMDR @anon45 @Syed.Ali.Haider

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## Taygibay

Yeah, that was a great moment and on all news media today.

Purple Heart says it all : A big flock you to Trump!


Glad it came out, Tay.

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## RabzonKhan

Hillary is back, I’m lovin it! 









*Clinton leads Trump by 6 points after Democratic confab: Reuters/Ipsos poll*

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton held a 6- percentage-point lead over Republican rival Donald Trump, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll with new wording that was released on Friday, the day after she formally accepted her party's nomination for the Nov. 8 election.

Nearly 41 percent of likely voters favor Clinton, 35 percent favor Trump, and 25 percent picked "Other," according to the new July 25-29 online poll of 1,043 likely voters, which overlapped with the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia. *Read more*



*Rasmussen poll: Clinton leads Trump by 1 point*

The poll finds that Clinton has 43 percent support compared to Trump's 42 percent among likely voters polled by the conservative-leaning Rasmussen. Another 10 percent of respondents like another candidate, and 4 percent are undecided. *Read more*


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## iPhone

RabzonKhan said:


> What a inspiring moment, an American-Pakistani Khizr Khan, the father of Captain Humayun Khan, whose son gave his life to protect his fellow soldiers, (Khan was posthumously awarded a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart) kicked Trump on the face!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Transcript of the speech given by Khizr M. Khan on Thursday night at the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia:*
> 
> Tonight, we are honored to stand here as the parents of Capt. Humayun Khan, and as patriotic American Muslims with undivided loyalty to our country.
> 
> Like many immigrants, we came to this country empty-handed. We believed in American democracy — that with hard work and the goodness of this country, we could share in and contribute to its blessings.
> 
> *We were blessed to raise our three sons in a nation where they were free to be themselves and follow their dreams.*
> 
> Our son, Humayun, had dreams of being a military lawyer. But he put those dreams aside the day he sacrificed his life to save his fellow soldiers.
> 
> *Hillary Clinton was right when she called my son "the best of America."*
> 
> If it was up to Donald Trump, he never would have been in America.
> 
> Donald Trump consistently smears the character of Muslims. He disrespects other minorities, women, judges, even his own party leadership. He vows to build walls and ban us from this country.
> 
> *Donald Trump, you are asking Americans to trust you with our future. Let me ask you: Have you even read the U.S. Constitution? I will gladly lend you my copy. In this document, look for the words "liberty" and "equal protection of law."*
> 
> *Have you ever been to Arlington Cemetery? Go look at the graves of the brave patriots who died defending America — you will see all faiths, genders, and ethnicities.
> 
> You have sacrificed nothing and no one.*
> 
> We can't solve our problems by building walls and sowing division.
> 
> *We are Stronger Together.*
> 
> And we will keep getting stronger when Hillary Clinton becomes our next President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/hsmkhan.htm
> 
> View attachment 321836
> 
> 
> View attachment 321837
> 
> 
> @Taygibay @Arsalan @Mugwop @F-22Raptor @AMDR @anon45 @Syed.Ali.Haider


Very powerful speech, today the parents gave interview to MSNBC with full details of what happened. They never came to any political rallies before until this DNC. All in all Captain Humyun is a great role model for muslim and Pakistani Americans.

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## Taygibay

More on that speech with video in first link :

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/29/politics/muslims-moment-khan/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...livered-a-brutal-repudiation-of-donald-trump/

Excerpts from second link :
During one GOP debate late last year, one Muslim said the election is like watching political football -- and American Muslims aren't playing for either team. They're the football. 
So when Khizr Khan, the father of a slain American soldier, took the stage at the Democratic National Convention on Thursday night and shook his copy of the Constitution at Trump, you could almost see the collective fist pump from Muslims across the country. 
...
"At a time when Islamophobia is growing thanks to hateful demagogues like Donald Trump, it was heartening to see the Democratic party give a prime-time slot to the father of a fallen Muslim-American soldier who rhetorically slapped Donald Trump in the face with his pocket-size Constitution."
...
Khan, whose son, Army Capt. Humayun Khan, 27, died from a suicide bombing in Baghdad 12 years ago, said Trump's shifting proposals to ban Muslims from entering the country would have prevented his late son from serving in the military. The Khans, originally from Pakistan, immigrated to the United States in the 1970s from the United Arab Emirates.
"Have you ever been to Arlington Cemetery?" Khan asked Trump. "Go look at the graves of the brave patriots who died defending America -- you will see all faiths, genders and ethnicities. You have sacrificed nothing and no one."
"I've seen #KhizrKhan's speech a few times now," tweeted Wajahat Ali, a journalist and writer. "It takes a Desi Muslim uncle to remind America of its core values & freedoms," he added, using terms of endearment for older South Asian immigrants.

Humayun Khan's Arlington page :
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/hsmkhan.htm

Great day all, Tay.

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## Deliorman

Owned.

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## iPhone

The demagogue seems to be in hot waters after the Russian hackers comment. The idiot actually tried to take his remarks back by saying he was only being sarcastic.

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## CBU-105



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## RabzonKhan

Hillary Clinton is the first woman to ever lead a presidential ticket of a major party in the United States.

Great speech, she spoke of unity, optimism, humility and fortitude in her speech.

She also warned the nation of a hateful demagogue “who got rich by conning his workers, peddling fear” and that “he does not have the right temperament to become president”.

Here are some of Hillary’s DNC 2016 Speech – Main Points:














*Transcript of Hillary’s DNC speech.
*

"And Bill, that conversation we started in the law library 45 years ago is still going strong. It's lasted through good times that filled us with joy, and hard times that tested us. "

"And for those of you out there who are just getting to know Tim Kaine – you're soon going to understand why the people of Virginia keep promoting him: from city council and mayor, to Governor, and now Senator. He'll make the whole country proud as our Vice President. "

"And I want to thank Bernie Sanders. Bernie, your campaign inspired millions of Americans, particularly the young people who threw their hearts and souls into our primary. You've put economic and social justice issues front and center, where they belong.

And to all of your supporters here and around the country: I want you to know, I've heard you. Your cause is our cause. Our country needs your ideas, energy, and passion. That's the only way we can turn our progressive platform into real change for America. We wrote it together – now let's go out there and make it happen together."

"America is once again at a moment of reckoning. Powerful forces are threatening to pull us apart. Bonds of trust and respect are fraying.

And just as with our founders, there are no guarantees. It truly is up to us. We have to decide whether we all will work together so we all can rise together."

"*Our country's motto is e pluribus unum: out of many, we are one. Will we stay true to that motto? 

Well, we heard Donald Trump's answer last week at his convention. He wants to divide us - from the rest of the world, and from each other. 

He's betting that the perils of today's world will blind us to its unlimited promise. He's taken the Republican Party a long way... from "Morning in America" to "Midnight in America." He wants us to fear the future and fear each other. 

Well, a great Democratic President, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, came up with the perfect rebuke to Trump more than eighty years ago, during a much more perilous time. “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.”*

"*We will not build a wall. Instead, we will build an economy where everyone who wants a good paying job can get one.*"

"*We will not ban a religion. We will work with all Americans and our allies to fight and defeat terrorism.*"

"Too many people haven't had a pay raise since the crash.

There's too much inequality. Too little social mobility. Too much paralysis in Washington. Too many threats at home and abroad.

*But just look at the strengths we bring as Americans to meet these challenges. We have the most dynamic and diverse people in the world. We have the most tolerant and generous young people we've ever had. We have the most powerful military. The most innovative entrepreneurs. The most enduring values.*"

"*Freedom and equality, justice and opportunity. We should be so proud that these words are associated with us*."

"So don't let anyone tell you that our country is weak. We're not. Don't let anyone tell you we don't have what it takes. We do.

And most of all, don't believe anyone who says: “I alone can fix it.”

Those were actually Donald Trump's words in Cleveland. And they should set off alarm bells for all of us.

*Really? I alone can fix it? Isn't he forgetting? Troops on the front lines.

Police officers and fire fighters who run toward danger. Doctors and nurses who care for us. Teachers who change lives. 

Entrepreneurs who see possibilities in every problem. Mothers who lost children to violence and are building a movement to keep other kids safe.

He's forgetting every last one of us. Americans don't say: “I alone can fix it.” We say: “We'll fix it together."
*
"Our economy is so much stronger than when they took office. Nearly 15 million new private-sector jobs.Twenty million more Americans with health insurance. And an auto industry that just had its best year ever.That's real progress. " 

"We're still facing deep-seated problems that developed long before the recession and have stayed with us through the recovery.

I've gone around our country talking to working families. And I've heard from so many of you who feel like the economy just isn't working.

Some of you are frustrated – even furious. And you know what??? You're right. It's not yet working the way it should.

Americans are willing to work – and work hard. But right now, an awful lot of people feel there is less and less respect for the work they do. And less respect for them, period.

Democrats are the party of working people. But we haven't done a good enough job showing that we get what you're going through, and that we're going to do something about it.

So I want to tell you tonight how we will empower Americans to live better lives.

*My primary mission as President will be to create more opportunity and more good jobs with rising wages right here in the United States... From my first day in office to my last! Especially in places that for too long have been left out and left behind."

"And here's what I believe. I believe America thrives when the middle class thrives. I believe that our economy isn't working the way it should because our democracy isn't working the way it should."

"If you believe that companies should share profits, not pad executive bonuses, join us. If you believe the minimum wage should be a living wage… and no one working full time should have to raise their children in poverty… join us.

If you believe that every man, woman, and child in America has the right to affordable health care…join us. If you believe that we should say “no” to unfair trade deals... that we should stand up to China... that we should support our steelworkers and autoworkers and homegrown manufacturers…join us. 

If you believe we should expand Social Security and protect a woman's right to make her own health care decisions… join us. 

And yes, if you believe that your working mother, wife, sister, or daughter deserves equal pay… join us... Let's make sure this economy works for everyone, not just those at the top"

"In my first 100 days, we will work with both parties to pass the biggest investment in new, good-paying jobs since World War II. Jobs in manufacturing, clean energy, technology and innovation, small business, and infrastructure.

If we invest in infrastructure now, we'll not only create jobs today, but lay the foundation for the jobs of the future. And we will transform the way we prepare our young people for those jobs."

"We're going to help more people learn a skill or practice a trade and make a good living doing it. We're going to give small businesses a boost. Make it easier to get credit. Way too many dreams die in the parking lots of banks."








But Trump, he's a businessman. He must know something about the economy. 

Well, let's take a closer look. In Atlantic City, 60 miles from here, you'll find contractors and small businesses who lost everything because Donald Trump refused to pay his bills. Now remember what the President said last night -- don't boo, vote.

People who did the work and needed the money, and didn't get it – not because he couldn't pay them, but because he wouldn't pay them. He just stiffed them. That sales pitch he's making to be your president? Put your faith in him – and you'll win big? That's the same sales pitch he made to all those small businesses.

Then Trump walked away, and left working people holding the bag.

He also talks a big game about putting America First. Please explain to me what part of America First leads him to make Trump ties in China, not Colorado. Trump suits in Mexico, not Michigan. Trump furniture in Turkey, not Ohio. Trump picture frames in India, not Wisconsin.

Donald Trump says he wants to make America great again – well, he could start by actually making things in America again."

"I'm proud to stand by our allies in NATO against any threat they face, including from Russia.

I've laid out my strategy for defeating ISIS. We will strike their sanctuaries from the air, and support local forces taking them out on the ground. We will surge our intelligence so that we detect and prevent attacks before they happen. We will disrupt their efforts online to reach and radicalize young people in our country. It won't be easy or quick, but make no mistake – we will prevail. "


"Now Donald Trump says, and this is a quote, “I know more about ISIS than the generals do….”

No, Donald, you don't. He thinks that he knows more than our military because he claimed our armed forces are “a disaster.”

Well, I've had the privilege to work closely with our troops and our veterans for many years, including as a Senator on the Armed Services Committee. I know how wrong he is."

"Ask yourself: Does Donald Trump have the temperament to be Commander-in-Chief? Donald Trump can't even handle the rough-and-tumble of a presidential campaign. He loses his cool at the slightest provocation. When he's gotten a tough question from a reporter. When he's challenged in a debate. When he sees a protestor at a rally. Imagine him in the Oval Office facing a real crisis. A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons. 

I can't put it any better than Jackie Kennedy did after the Cuban Missile Crisis. She said that what worried President Kennedy during that very dangerous time was that a war might be started – not by big men with self-control and restraint, but by little men – the ones moved by fear and pride."

"America's strength doesn't come from lashing out. Strength relies on smarts, judgment, cool resolve, and the precise and strategic application of power. That's the kind of Commander-in-Chief I pledge to be. "

"And we will stand up against mean and divisive rhetoric wherever it comes from. You know, for the past year, many people made the mistake of laughing off Donald Trump's comments – excusing him as an entertainer just putting on a show. They think he couldn't possibly mean all the horrible things he says – like when he called women “pigs.”

Or said that an American judge couldn't be fair because of his Mexican heritage. Or when he mocks andmimics a reporter with a disability. Or insults prisoners of war like John McCain –a true hero and patriot who deserves our respect.

At first, I admit, I couldn't believe he meant it either. It was just too hard to fathom – that someone who wants to lead our nation could say those things. Could be like that. 

But here's the sad truth: There is no other Donald Trump...This is it. And in the end, it comes down to what Donald Trump doesn't get: that America is great – because America is good. 

So enough with the bigotry and bombast. Donald Trump's not offering real change. He's offering empty promises. What are we offering? A bold agenda to improve the lives of people across our country - to keep you safe, to get you good jobs, and to give your kids the opportunities they deserve. The choice is clear, my friends."

"Every generation of Americans has come together to make our country freer, fairer, and stronger. None of us ever have or can do it alone. "

"Yes, the world is watching what we do. Yes, America's destiny is ours to choose. So let's be stronger together, my fellow Americans. Let’s look to the future with courage and confidence. Let’s build a better tomorrow for our beloved children and our beloved country. And when we do, America will be greater than ever."
*



iPhone said:


> The demagogue seems to be in hot waters after the Russian hackers comment. The idiot actually tried to take his remarks back by saying he was only being sarcastic.


The man is a joke and one of the most embarrassing and disgraceful presidential candidates ever.

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## CBU-105

amazing Donald Trump rally






this guy is awesome, a real human being, straight talker no bs, and crooked hillary clinton is like an evil robot.

go Trump !

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## anon45

Anyone see this great speech? A riposte to the Trump pushed idea that Muslims can't integrate, can't be patriotic, and can't be American. 








> *Donald Trump to Father of Fallen Soldier: 'I’ve Made a Lot of Sacrifices'*



http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-father-fallen-soldier-ive-made-lot/story?id=41015051



Drumpf said:


> Donald Trump claimed that he had in fact sacrificed by employing “thousands and thousands of people.” He also suggested that Khan’s wife didn’t speak because she was forbidden to as a Muslim and questioned whether Khan’s words were his own.



Seriously, f&ck Trump.

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## CBU-105

repost, American arab muslim for Trump:

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## Desert Fox

Looks like the Democrats are still the party of the Klan 

*Racist DNC Email Flagrantly Makes Fun Of Black Woman’s Name*​




Michael Bastasch

*Democratic operatives made fun of a black woman’s name in an email chain recently leaked by the website Wikileaks.*

An email with Scott Comer, the finance chief of staff and LGBT finance director for the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and Zachary Allen with the firm TIPAH Consulting, makes fun of LaQueenia Gibson’s name. Gibson is an executive assistant for the company Haddad Brands.

*“LaQueenia is a NAME!” Allen wrote to Comer in May, 2016. “I’m sorry, boo. I hope you got a raise with this title.” *

Allen is a Democratic campaign consultant who has been paid thousands of dollars by the DNC. A Federal Election Commission (FEC) report for 2015 shows Allen was paid $10,500 for “Fundraising Consulting” in September, 2015. The email was reported earlier on Fox News host Sean Hannity’s website.

Allen’s remarks were in response to an email from Comer saying “just kill me now.” Comer was commenting on an email sent from Rob Smith, the chief product officer at Haddad.

“I’m encouraging a phone call next week,” Smith wrote in May, 2016. “There has been some shift in leadership and I’d like for us to be aligned on next steps. After seeing a few emails, I’m not sure that we are all on the same page. I’m going to have LaQueenia send out some options for next week. Hopefully we can all get on the phone and reenergize this event.”

*The email is just one of 20,000 recently released by Wikileaks ahead of the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia, which kicked off Monday.*

_Update: Allen is also the DNC’s finance chair._

_Follow Michael on Facebook and Twitter_


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/25/r...makes-fun-of-black-womans-name/#ixzz4FxUkRepA


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## CBU-105




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## CorporateAffairs

Hillary is losing. For sure.


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## CBU-105




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## Black Mamba1

"Here’s the critical exchange between Trump, Sanger, and the Times’s Maggie Haberman, which is worth reading in full:


SANGER: I was just in the Baltic States. They are very concerned obviously about this new Russian activism, they are seeing submarines off their coasts, they are seeing airplanes they haven’t seen since the Cold War coming, bombers doing test runs. If Russia came over the border into Estonia or Latvia, Lithuania, places that Americans don’t think about all that often, would you come to their immediate military aid?

TRUMP: I don’t want to tell you what I’d do because I don’t want Putin to know what I’d do. I have a serious chance of becoming president and I’m not like Obama, that every time they send some troops into Iraq or anyplace else, he has a news conference to announce it.

SANGER: They are NATO members, and we are treaty-obligated ——

TRUMP: We have many NATO members that aren’t paying their bills.

SANGER: That’s true, but we are treaty-obligated under NATO, forget the bills part.

TRUMP: You can’t forget the bills. They have an obligation to make payments. Many NATO nations are not making payments, are not making what they’re supposed to make. That’s a big thing. You can’t say forget that.

SANGER: My point here is, Can the members of NATO, including the new members in the Baltics, count on the United States to come to their military aid if they were attacked by Russia? And count on us fulfilling our obligations ——

TRUMP: Have they fulfilled their obligations to us? If they fulfill their obligations to us, the answer is yes.

HABERMAN: And if not?

TRUMP: Well, I’m not saying if not. I’m saying, right now there are many countries that have not fulfilled their obligations to us.

*In other words, Trump is saying that his unequivocal commitment to NATO hinges on whether particular NATO states — including the Baltics — have forked over enough cash.

Trump clearly doesn’t think of NATO in terms of an ironclad guarantee to allied states. He thinks of it as transactional, akin to a real estate deal or (less charitably) a protection racket: The United States only protects its weaker allies if they pay up*."

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## boomslang

Black Mamba1 said:


> "Here’s the critical exchange between Trump, Sanger, and the Times’s Maggie Haberman, which is worth reading in full:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Trump clearly doesn’t think of NATO in terms of an ironclad guarantee to allied states. He thinks of it as transactional, akin to a real estate deal or (less charitably) a protection racket: The United States only protects its weaker allies if they pay up*."



Part of the 'ironclad guarantee' is that the member countries pull their own weight. The U.S. can't afford to always pick up the tab. The days of, 'That's O.K. we don't have to pay, the U.S. will pay for it'. are over.

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## Desert Fox

Yet again, more racism uncovered from within the Democrat Party:



*DNC Email Leaks Show Racist Outreach to Latinos Called “Taco Bowl Engagement”*​



*So the Democrats call Hispanics, taco bowls*.

DNC uses their own words to destroy themselves. This is what they think of their supporters.

Hours before the DNC Convention convenes, this email is found within the Wikileaks email blast sent out on Friday and it comes straight from the DNC.






@CNNSotu @jaketapper Please explain how the DNC referring to Hispanics as "Taco Bowl Engagement" is Russia's fault?

— watsit2u (@thumbug) July 24, 2016

Taco bowl?? It's a good thing leftists aren't racist.












https://t.co/DTryIHo9fu

— Peter Deacon (@AmerPatriot1) July 23, 2016

Email show what the DNC REALLY thinks of latino voters. "Taco bowl"? really now?#DNCleak #NeverHillary pic.twitter.com/U2JqcMxNvV

— Demarcus Owens (@NubianAwakening) July 23, 2016

How do yall mexicans feel about your support for democrats being referred to as "taco bowl engagement"??





— catarino carrasco (@johnfkennedyx) July 24, 2016

@AmericanMex067 Have you seen the #DNCleak email where DNC Staffer wants to "mop up some more taco bowl engagement"? The Dems disgust me!

— Mitt_Fit (@Mitt_Fit) July 24, 2016

#DNCinPHL #DNCCORRUPT Glad I'm not a DEMOCRAT, distasteful TACO BOWL'S, shows what DEMS really think about Hispanics, nothing but a vote.

— iretta bobbitt (@ibobbitt) July 24, 2016

The DNC is imploding. And it’s more fun to watch than an episode of Krapdashians. Their lying and double-crossing ways are finally exposed. What else would you expect from a party that supports a pathological liar?

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## boomslang

The blacks in the U.S. have supported the Dems for ages and where has it gotten them ? All major cities are run by Democrats and they're a mess. And now we're seeing the Dems nudge the blacks to the side as they try to wrangle the latino vote.


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## Desert Fox

Only a despicable person lacking any morals would exploit someone else's death to emotionally manipulate voters. 

*Khizr Khan’s Feel Good Story*​




​Donald Trump has laid out a plan to ban immigration “from any nation that has been compromised by terrorism.” Consider the following:

1.) Pakistan ranks #4. on the Global Terrorism Index. In other words, Pakistan is worse than Syria and Somalia. Of all the countries in the world, only Iraq, Afghanistan, and Nigeria have a worse problem with terrorism.

2.) Pakistan is one of the most anti-American countries in the world. A year ago, _The Washington Post_ celebrated the fact that anti-American sentiment in Pakistan had declined _from 80 percent to only 59 percent_. Pakistan is still a dangerous country where Americans are routinely attacked and kidnapped by Islamic terrorists.

3.) Pakistan is a safe harbor for the Taliban which the US has spent 15 years fighting in Afghanistan.

4.) Pakistan sheltered Osama bin Laden within its borders for years.

5.) Finally, I knew I had written something about Pakistan recently, and a quick search of the archives revealed that it was the terrorist attack by the Taliban that targeted Christians in Pakistan on Easter. I guess that went down the memory hole.

The Constitution is not a passport for any Muslim terrorist who wants to come here from Pakistan. The United States would be foolish to encourage immigration from one of the most anti-American, terrorist-infested countries on earth. In 2012, 75% of Pakistanis considered Americans to be their “enemy.” The cuckservatives and the liberals who are cooing over Khizr Khan’s feel good speech at the DNC should watch the video below from Easter to refresh their memories about who they are inviting to come here.








anon45 said:


>


If trump "hasn't sacrificed anything" for his country, as this individual claims, then what has his candidate Hillary sacrificed?

The only thing she's managed to do is get herself involved in numerous corruption scandals.

*We all know how fond Hillary Clinton is of Muslims*. In fact *she's so fond of Muslims that she managed to destroy three Muslim countries, causing the deaths of millions of Muslims and a massive refugee crisis.*

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## boomslang

iPhone said:


> The demagogue seems to be in hot waters after the Russian hackers comment. The idiot actually tried to take his remarks back by saying he was only being sarcastic.



If the leftist media didn't 'conveniently' edit the clip you'd be able to hear that he WAS just goofing. Find the WHOLE clip. Listen to his next sentence. At 13: 36, after he 'asks' Russia to hack Killarys emails he says,' Let's see if THAT happens' in a clearly sarcastic tone.

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## anon45

Desert Fox said:


> Only a despicable person lacking any morals would exploit someone else's death to emotionally manipulate voters.



Its despicable of you to attribute such cold-hearted intentions to the father and mother. You know exactly why they are speaking, and you know exactly that Trump responded in a way that not only showed the least amount of empathy, but showed an absolute thin skinned idiocy that continues to show him unqualified for dealing with the chaotic realm of global politics.

The only silver lining is this will continue to be revealed to the American people, as Trump simply can't control himself, Tiny hands Trump is just that insecure.

Hillary will trounce him in the debates, and she will win in November.

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## Desert Fox

anon45 said:


> Its despicable of you to attribute such cold-hearted intentions to the father and mother.


Facts hurt, i know.* If that shameless individual really honored his son he wouldn't be supporting the woman who voted for the useless war his son died in.*

Lets see if Killary Rotten Corruption will win when more than half of Democrat voter base refuses to vote for her

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## boomslang

anon45 said:


> Its despicable of you to attribute such cold-hearted intentions to the father and mother.....



Do you think Killary gives a rats @ss about those people ? As long as she has something to gain she'll keep trotting them out there. When they outlive their usefulness, they're gone. Killary is shameless.

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## Desert Fox

boomslang said:


> Do you think Killary gives a rats @ss about those people ? As long as she has something to gain she'll keep trotting them out there. When they outlive their usefulness, they're gone. Killary is shameless.


How people easily forget that Killary bombed the living sh!t out of Muslims in the middle east is beyond me.


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## boomslang

Desert Fox said:


> How people easily forget that Killary bombed the living sh!t out of Muslims in the middle east is beyond me.



That doesn't bother me that much. Afghanistan was clean. Iraq #2 and Libya were mistakes. For me, among hundreds of other things, is her nonchalant way of handling State Department info. You just know that EVERYONE hacked the shit out of her. All because she didn't want to have two smart phone. She knew it was wrong but she didn't care. And the Clinton Foundation is a cash cow for her and Bill. She talks about womens rights yet she takes millions from countries that stone women for adultry and restrict their rights. She bitches about Wall Street but no one has gotten more money from them than Killary. And I'm sure Bill can't wait to get back to the White House, and all those young interns and secretaries.

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## anon45

boomslang said:


> Do you think Killary gives a rats @ss about those people ? As long as she has something to gain she'll keep trotting them out there. When they outlive their usefulness, they're gone. Killary is shameless.



I think those people give more than a rats *** about their country, and I think what you think Hillary thinks about them is pretty irrelevant to what she actually thinks.

You are guessing on what Hillary thinks, we know what Trump thinks.



Desert Fox said:


> Facts hurt, i know.* If that shameless individual really honored his son he wouldn't be supporting the woman who voted for the useless war his son died in.*
> 
> Lets see if Killary Rotten Corruption will win when more than half of Democrat voter base refuses to vote for her


Oh please, you don't care one way or another, you will say and do anything to justify Trump, including try to (badly by the way) shame a father with the memory of his own dead son into voting for the candidate you want him to vote for, regardless of his interests.

Thankfully Trump will not win, he simply doesn't have the self control, and that will continue to show, as he has to reply to any and all insults against him. His campaign staff cant stop him, he will dig his own grave through actions just like this.


Mr Tiny hands, thin skin is pretty much gonna embarass his staff and poison the well for any who supported him, because I don't think he's capable of embarassing himself.

As for the voting, it will only get better with the debates

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKCN1092M5

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-complains-debates-conflicting-nfl-games/story?id=41026741


> *Trump Complains About Debates Conflicting With NFL Games*





> He also said that the NFL wrote him a letter complaining about the scheduling of debates at the same time as football games



http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nfl-denies-sending-donald-trump-letter-over-presidential-debates/



> *NFL denies sending Donald Trump letter over presidential debates*



He has to be a pathological liar to be lying about so inconsequental a thing.

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## Desert Fox

anon45 said:


> I think those people give more than a rats *** about their country, and I think what you think Hillary thinks about them is pretty irrelevant to what she actually thinks.
> 
> You are guessing on what Hillary thinks, we know what Trump thinks.
> 
> 
> Oh please, you don't care one way or another, you will say and do anything to justify Trump, including try to (badly by the way) shame a father with the memory of his own dead son into voting for the candidate you want him to vote for, regardless of his interests.
> 
> Thankfully Trump will not win, he simply doesn't have the self control, and that will continue to show, as he has to reply to any and all insults against him. His campaign staff cant stop him, he will dig his own grave through actions just like this.
> 
> 
> Mr Tiny hands, thin skin is pretty much gonna embarass his staff and poison the well for any who supported him, because I don't think he's capable of embarassing himself.
> 
> As for the voting, it will only get better with the debates
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKCN1092M5
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-complains-debates-conflicting-nfl-games/story?id=41026741
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nfl-denies-sending-donald-trump-letter-over-presidential-debates/
> 
> 
> 
> He has to be a pathological liar to be lying about so inconsequental a thing.


I can care less who he votes for. But he is a shameless man for using the death of his son to emotionally manipulate voters. At least spare the dead from politics.


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## CBU-105

Desert Fox said:


> I can care less who he votes for. But he is a shameless man for using the death of his son to emotionally manipulate voters. At least spare the dead from politics.


tbh there was some of that from both sides, but the way the liberal media has covered it is shameful.

Benghazi mom = tragedy p0rn, Muslim immigrant dad = powerful moment, evil Trump etc

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## Parul



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## Taygibay

boomslang said:


> All major cities are run by Democrats and they're a mess.



Well, NYC is not doing so bad and San Diego, a major at 1.3M pop.
is run by a Republican. Maybe the American voters simply don't want
the same officials as those who cannot run a Congtess they control?

Anyway, on the Khan debate, those with the right to a voice think Trump tripped too :

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/201...rump-over-comments-about-ghazala-khan-n620671

Mr Khan was allowed to point out his son's gift to the nation because he is not
using it to favour a candidate over another but to prevent a man who called for
banning a whole segment of Americans on a religious basis which is forbidden
in the US by virtue of the Constitution, the very one he waved that evening.

In any case, that draft dodging Donald doesn't get to talk about military personnel at all!
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/article/2015/jul/21/was-trump-draft-dodger/

8 student deferments and then this active sports participant in school suddenly
got put on the back burner for service due to an unspecified medical exemption.

Something smells fishy and yet, the low life has a negative opinion on parents of
a highly decorated KIA member of the Armed Forces and draws a wrongful rebuke
from his religious narrow mindedness and that although he's not religious himself?

No respect for this kind of clown, Tay.

P.S. Edit added :
"It is time for Donald Trump to set the example for our country and the future of the Republican Party," McCain said. "While our Party has bestowed upon him the nomination, it is not accompanied by unfettered license to defame those who are the best among us.
"Lastly, I'd like to say to Mr. and Mrs. Khan: thank you for immigrating to America. We're a better country because of you. And you are certainly right; your son was the best of America, and the memory of his sacrifice will make us a better nation -- and he will never be forgotten."
Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-South Carolina, said in a statement: "This is going to a place where we've never gone before, to push back against the families of the fallen. There used to be some things that were sacred in American politics -- that you don't do -- like criticizing the parents of a fallen soldier even if they criticize you."
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/31/politics/donald-trump-khizr-khan-family-controversy/index.html

Of course, McCain would dislike Trump who said about him that he prefers
those that were no captured in ref. to McCain's captivity at Vietcong's hands.
Graham on the other hand is a classic conservative.
At the very least, this showed that Muslims are not always blamed in America
and on occasion lauded.
Sadly, it took a Trump invective ( A tautology, I know! ) to showcase that.

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## Devil Soul

*Republican senator slams Trump for disparaging family of slain Pakistani-American soldier*
By AFP
Published: August 1, 2016
1SHARES
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US Republican Senator John McCain. PHOTO: AFP

WASHINGTON: Republican Senator John McCain slammed Donald Trump Monday for disparaging the Muslim family of a slain Pakistani-American soldier, and demanded that his party’s presidential candidate set an example for the country.

“While our party has bestowed upon him the nomination, it is not accompanied by unfettered license to defame those who are the best among us,” McCain said in a statement.

It was the latest in a mounting Republican backlash against Trump’s bristling response to Khizr Khan, the Pakistani immigrant who galvanised the Democratic National Convention with a tribute to his dead son in which he rebuked the billionaire Republican nominee as having “sacrificed nothing” for the country.

*NY Post runs nude image of Trump’s wife*

Army captain Humayun Khan was killed in Iraq in 2004, in an explosion at a military compound.

McCain, whose heroism as a former prisoner of war Trump once put down, stopped short of withdrawing his endorsement of the Republican nominee, but said he could not “emphasise enough how strongly I disagree with his statement.”

“It is time for Donald Trump to set the example for our country and the future of the Republican Party,” he said. He praised captain Khan as a “shining example” of bravery and valor.

“When a suicide bomber accelerated his vehicle toward a facility with hundreds of American soldiers, Captain Khan ordered his subordinates away from the danger. “Then he ran toward it,” McCain said.

“The suicide bomber, striking prematurely, claimed the life of Captain Khan — and Captain Khan, through his selfless action and sacrifice, saved the lives of hundreds of his brothers and sisters,” he said.

*Donald Trump responds to slain Pakistani-American soldier’s dad: ‘I have made sacrifices’*

He thanked the Khan family for immigrating to America, saying, “We’re a better country because of you.”

In one of several tweets he has fired off in recent days over the controversy, Trump wrote Sunday: “I was viciously attacked by Mr Khan at the Democratic Convention. Am I not allowed to respond? Hillary voted for the Iraq war, not me!”

Trump was referring to Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.

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## RabzonKhan

Trump is a cowardly draft dodger, who avoided the draft on five separate occasions.


*VoteVets releases Gold Star Family Members letter to Trump, demand apology for all Gold Star Families

“Ours is a sacrifice you will never know. Ours is a sacrifice we would never want you to know.” *

WASHINGTON, DC – Family members of twenty-three fallen service-members are writing to Donald J. Trump today, expressing their dismay at his treatment of the family of CPT. Humayun Khan, and demanding an apology. The letter was organized by Karen Meredith, a Gold Star mother who serves as Military Families Coordinator for VoteVets.org.

The letter is below:

_August 1, 2016Donald J Trump725 Fifth AvenueNew York, NY 10022_
Mr. Trump,

We are all Gold Star Families, who have lost those we love the most in war. Ours is a sacrifice you will never know. Ours is a sacrifice we would never want you to know.

*Your recent comments regarding the Khan family were repugnant, and personally offensive to us. When you question a mother's pain, by implying that her religion, not her grief, kept her from addressing an arena of people, you are attacking us. When you say your job building buildings is akin to our sacrifice, you are attacking our sacrifice.*

You are not just attacking us, you are cheapening the sacrifice made by those we lost.

You are minimizing the risk our service members make for all of us.

*This goes beyond politics. It is about a sense of decency. That kind decency you mock as "political correctness." 

We feel we must speak out and demand you apologize to the Khans, to all Gold Star families, and to all Americans for your offensive, and frankly anti-American, comments. *

We hope you will hear us.

Sincerely, 

Diane and Neil Santoriello, Mother and Father of 1LT Neil Santoriello, KIA, Iraq

Summer Lipford-Mickelson, Mother, Frederick Sirko, Father, Kirby Mickelson, Stepfather, Laura Sirko Samimy and Bridget Sirko Gentle, Sisters of PFC Steven Sirko, KIA, Iraq. 

Sue and Randy Loudon, Mother and Father of 2ndLt. Christopher Loudon, KIA, Iraq

Melanie House, Widow of HM3 John Daniel House, KIA, Iraq

Derek and Lorene Davey, Mother and Father of Cpl. Seamus M. Davey, KIA, Iraq

Celeste Zappala, Mother of SGT. Sherwood Baker, KIA, Iraq

Sue Niederer, Mother of 2LT Seth Dvorin, KIA, Iraq

Fulvio and Gilda Carbonaro, Father and Mother of Sgt. Alessandro Carbonaro, KIA, Iraq

Karen Meredith, Mother of 1LT Ken Ballard, KIA, Iraq

Sergio Torres, Father, Lupe Torres, Mother and Beatriz Saldivar, Aunt of SGT Daniel Torres, KIA, Iraq

MG (Ret.) Paul D. Eaton, and Frank Eaton, sons of Col. Norman Eaton, KIA, Vietnam

Stephanie Fisher, mother of SSG Thomas Fogarty, KIA Afghanistan

Norma and Oscar Aviles, parents of Lcpl. Andrew J. Aviles, KIA Iraq

Cheryl Lankford, widow of CSM Jonathan"Miles"Lankford Sr., KIAIraq

Carlos and Melida Arredondo Father & Step-Mother to Lcpl. Alexander Arredondo, KIA, Iraq

Florence Sandra Penn , sister of 1 LT Charles Penn Jr , KIA Korea

Nadia McCaffrey, mother of SGT Patrick McCaffrey, KIA Iraq

Xiomara Mena, Mother of CPL Andy D Anderson KIA, Iraq

Annette Pritchard, Aunt of PFC William Ramirez, KIA Iraq

Paula Davis, Mother of PFC Justin R. Davis , KIA Afghanistan

Nooshin Razani, Sister of SPC Omead Razani, KIA Iraq

Christina Ayube, Mother of Sgt James Anthony Ayube II, KIA Afghanistan

Keavin Duffy, Brother of SGT Shane Duffy KIA Iraq

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## boomslang

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump is a cowardly draft dodger, who avoided the draft on five separate occasions....



Look up Bill Clintons draft record. Artful Dodger, to say the least. Plus, being the 'leader of the free world' he could have banged any chick he wanted yet he banged a fat one, left his spunk on her dress and then looked into the cameras a hundred times and lied about it. And then, he was impeached for it. Good guy.


----------



## RabzonKhan

In an apparent snub to Trump for insulting the Gold Star family, many high ranking Republicans are sympathizing with the Khan Family. 










The highest ranking elected Republican, *Speaker Paul Ryan *said, "Many Muslim Americans have served valiantly in our military, and made the ultimate sacrifice," Ryan said Sunday afternoon. "Captain Khan was one such brave example. His sacrifice — and that of Khizr and Ghazala Khan —should always be honored. Period.” 

He also said: “America's greatness is built on the principles of liberty and preserved by the men and women who wear the uniform to defend it. As I have said on numerous occasions, a religious test for entering our country is not reflective of these fundamental values. I reject it." *Link*

*Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell *"Captain Khan was an American hero, and like all Americans, I’m grateful for the sacrifices that selfless young men like Capt. Khan and their families have made in the war on terror," McConnell said in a statement Sunday. "All Americans should value the patriotic service of the patriots who volunteer to selflessly defend us in the armed services."

"As I have long made clear, I agree with the Khans and families across the country that a travel ban on all members of a religion is simply contrary to American values," McConnell said. *Link*

*Senator John McCain* sharply criticized Donald J. Trump’s comments about the family of a fallen Muslim Army captain, saying, “While our party has bestowed upon him the nomination, it is not accompanied by unfettered license to defame those who are the best among us.”

“In recent days, Donald Trump disparaged a fallen soldier’s parents,” he wrote of the parents, Khizr and Ghazala Khan. “He has suggested that the likes of their son should not be allowed in the United States — to say nothing of entering its service. I cannot emphasize enough how deeply I disagree with Mr. Trump’s statement. I hope Americans understand that the remarks do not represent the views of our Republican Party, its officers or candidates.” *Link*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/759574122221432832

*Republican Senator Kelly Ayotte* of New Hampshire, said the Khans deserved the utmost respect: “I am appalled that Donald Trump would disparage them and that he had the gall to compare his own sacrifices to those of a Gold Star family.” *Link*

*Senator Lindsey Graham*, Republican of South Carolina, said on Sunday that Mr. Trump had crossed another inviolable line. Like his comments about Judge Curiel, Mr. Graham said, Mr. Trump’s jabs at Mr. and Ms. Khan were unacceptable. “This is going to a place where we’ve never gone before, to push back against the families of the fallen,” he said. 

He added, “The problem is, ‘unacceptable’ doesn’t even begin to describe it.” *Link*

*Representative Mike Coffman *of Colorado, a Republican who served in combat as a Marine and now represents a crucial swing district in the Denver suburbs, said Mr. Trump had disrespected American troops. “Having served in Iraq, I’m deeply offended when Donald Trump fails to honor the sacrifices of all of our brave soldiers who were lost in that war,” Link

*Texas Republican Rep. Mac Thornberry* wrote, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee in a statement that said he was "dismayed" by Trump's remarks. "Service to our country is above politics," Link

R*epublican Sen. Roy Blunt* said , I remember how much I worried about my son Matt during his years of active duty. The Khans have made the greatest possible sacrifice for our country; they deserve to be heard and respected. Link

*New Hampshire Republican Party Chair Horn* added, “As the mother of a United States Marine, I am appalled by Donald Trump's comments regarding the Kahn family and stunned by his lack of understanding for their sacrifice.” *Link *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/760170204714373120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/760175412479537153


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## boomslang

The REAL scum bag is the person who trotted them poor people out there in the first place. Killary has no shame.



anon45 said:


> ...He has to be a pathological liar to be lying about so inconsequental a thing.




You don't even want to get into a 'who lies more' thing. Killary has shitloads of lies under her belt. Going back to when Bill was banging all those chicks and she covered for him by slandering Bills' babes while HE lied about it. Bengazi. Bosnian 'under enemy fire' landing. Emails...... She's learned from a real bullshit artist. Bill.


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## Taygibay

boomslang said:


> Look up Bill Clintons draft record. *Artful Dodger*, to say the least. Plus, being the 'leader of the free world' he could have ... and then looked into the cameras a hundred times *and lied about it*. And then, *he was impeached for it*. Good guy.



Yes he was, yes he did but no he wasn't, Boomslang man!
But while I agree that Clinton was not a good guy, neither
was GWB but that is no excuse to vote in a moron again!?!

I know America survived bad presidents as a good democracy
would but still, from the Washingtons, Rosevelts and Kennedys
down to a Trump***, that can't be good for nation, now can it?

I have very little esteem for Hillary ( calling her Killary while being all
gunho and bellicose is a logic flaw BTW ) but absolutely none for Trump!

If even half of the undecided voters agree with me, you're well on
your way to 12 years min. of Dem. Prez?

I mean, check RabzonKhan's post right above yours :

Ryan, Mc Connell, Mc Cain, Graham, Thornberry ... we're not citing
socialists exactly here! And yet condemnation is widespread ...
The GOP got outflanked by its lunatic fringe as most classic Right
parties in Europe 10 yeas ago, no big news.

But no reason to dishonour the presidential office ( or servicemen ) either.

Food for thought, good day to you, Tay.



*** That's more than a step down, more like a stair to the sub-basement.

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## boomslang

Taygibay said:


> Yes he was, yes he did but no he wasn't, ....



Bill Clinton was MOST CERTAINLY impeached, Taygibay man. Look it up. Being impeached does not necessarily mean you get kicked out of office.

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## Taygibay

He was impeached by the House, BoomS but got acquitted by the Senate!
That is why he didn't have to vacate office! I agree it was a farce and yet ...

He thus became the second US prez after Andrew Johnson ( with much
more pressing charges of high crimes & misdemeanors ) to be cleared.

Just historic facts, not a judgement call here, Tay


----------



## boomslang

Taygibay said:


> Yes he was, yes he did but no he wasn't, Boomslang man!
> But while I agree that Clinton was not a good guy, neither
> was GWB but that is no excuse to vote in a moron again!?!
> 
> 
> So we vote for a dishonest person who mishandles secrets because she wants too ? Who wants to let in 65,000 people we know nothing about. She's been told as much by all the security agencies but she wants what SHE wants. She claims to support women yet her foundation (Even Trump doesn't have one of them ) takes millions of dollars from countries that don't let women drive, sells them for marriage at young ages, stones adulterers.....Killary claims to want to 'crack down' on Wall Street yet she has taken around $ 60,000,000 from them while Trump has taken $19,000. We could go all day. KILLARY !!!
> 
> 
> I have very little esteem for Hillary ( calling her Killary while being all
> gunho and bellicose is a logic flaw BTW ) but absolutely none for Trump!
> 
> So now you are a psychoanalyst ?
> 
> If even half of the undecided voters agree with me, you're well on
> your way to 12 years min. of Dem. Prez?
> 
> And if half agree with me ? Same thing going the other way, chief.
> 
> I mean, check RabzonKhan's post right above yours :
> 
> Ryan, Mc Connell, Mc Cain, Graham, Thornberry ... we're not citing
> socialists exactly here! And yet condemnation is widespread ...
> The GOP got outflanked by its lunatic fringe as most classic Right
> parties in Europe 10 yeas ago, no big news.
> 
> And it would be easy for me to list generals and senators for Trump. Go look into it yourself.
> 
> But no reason to dishonour the presidential office ( or servicemen ) either.
> 
> When did he 'dishonor' servicemen ?
> 
> Food for thought, good day to you, Tay.
> 
> 
> 
> *** That's more than a step down, more like a stair to the sub-basement.

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## Desert Fox

*Sadistic Hillary*

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## Desert Fox

boomslang said:


> Look up Bill Clintons draft record. Artful Dodger, to say the least. Plus, being the 'leader of the free world' he could have banged any chick he wanted yet he banged a fat one, left his spunk on her dress and then looked into the cameras a hundred times and lied about it. And then, he was impeached for it. Good guy.


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## C130

Desert Fox said:


> Sadistic Hillary
> View attachment 322520




she's a hyena

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> In an apparent snub to Trump for insulting the Gold Star family, many high ranking Republicans are sympathizing with the Khan Family.
> 
> View attachment 322509
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The highest ranking elected Republican, *Speaker Paul Ryan *said, "Many Muslim Americans have served valiantly in our military, and made the ultimate sacrifice," Ryan said Sunday afternoon. "Captain Khan was one such brave example. His sacrifice — and that of Khizr and Ghazala Khan —should always be honored. Period.”
> 
> He also said: “America's greatness is built on the principles of liberty and preserved by the men and women who wear the uniform to defend it. As I have said on numerous occasions, a religious test for entering our country is not reflective of these fundamental values. I reject it." *Link*
> 
> *Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell *"Captain Khan was an American hero, and like all Americans, I’m grateful for the sacrifices that selfless young men like Capt. Khan and their families have made in the war on terror," McConnell said in a statement Sunday. "All Americans should value the patriotic service of the patriots who volunteer to selflessly defend us in the armed services."
> 
> "As I have long made clear, I agree with the Khans and families across the country that a travel ban on all members of a religion is simply contrary to American values," McConnell said. *Link*
> 
> *Senator John McCain* sharply criticized Donald J. Trump’s comments about the family of a fallen Muslim Army captain, saying, “While our party has bestowed upon him the nomination, it is not accompanied by unfettered license to defame those who are the best among us.”
> 
> “In recent days, Donald Trump disparaged a fallen soldier’s parents,” he wrote of the parents, Khizr and Ghazala Khan. “He has suggested that the likes of their son should not be allowed in the United States — to say nothing of entering its service. I cannot emphasize enough how deeply I disagree with Mr. Trump’s statement. I hope Americans understand that the remarks do not represent the views of our Republican Party, its officers or candidates.” *Link*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/759574122221432832
> 
> *Republican Senator Kelly Ayotte* of New Hampshire, said the Khans deserved the utmost respect: “I am appalled that Donald Trump would disparage them and that he had the gall to compare his own sacrifices to those of a Gold Star family.” *Link*
> 
> *Senator Lindsey Graham*, Republican of South Carolina, said on Sunday that Mr. Trump had crossed another inviolable line. Like his comments about Judge Curiel, Mr. Graham said, Mr. Trump’s jabs at Mr. and Ms. Khan were unacceptable. “This is going to a place where we’ve never gone before, to push back against the families of the fallen,” he said.
> 
> He added, “The problem is, ‘unacceptable’ doesn’t even begin to describe it.” *Link*
> 
> *Representative Mike Coffman *of Colorado, a Republican who served in combat as a Marine and now represents a crucial swing district in the Denver suburbs, said Mr. Trump had disrespected American troops. “Having served in Iraq, I’m deeply offended when Donald Trump fails to honor the sacrifices of all of our brave soldiers who were lost in that war,” Link
> 
> *Texas Republican Rep. Mac Thornberry* wrote, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee in a statement that said he was "dismayed" by Trump's remarks. "Service to our country is above politics," Link
> 
> R*epublican Sen. Roy Blunt* said , I remember how much I worried about my son Matt during his years of active duty. The Khans have made the greatest possible sacrifice for our country; they deserve to be heard and respected. Link
> 
> *New Hampshire Republican Party Chair Horn* added, “As the mother of a United States Marine, I am appalled by Donald Trump's comments regarding the Kahn family and stunned by his lack of understanding for their sacrifice.” *Link *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/760170204714373120
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/760175412479537153



So a group of corrupt wall street politicians who have the blood of Iraqis, Libyans, & Syrians on their hands oppose Trump? Trump must be doing something good.


Pictures worth a thousand words.


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## Desert Fox

boomslang said:


> You don't even want to get into a 'who lies more' thing. Killary has shitloads of lies under her belt. Going back to when Bill was banging all those chicks and she covered for him by slandering Bills' babes while HE lied about it. Bengazi. Bosnian 'under enemy fire' landing. Emails...... She's learned from a real bullshit artist. Bill.


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## Desert Fox

C130 said:


> she's a hyena


There's definitely something wrong with this lady, *as Bernie Sanders said, Hillary is unfit to be President.:*

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## TMA

http://tomatobubble.com/khizr_khan_vs_donald_trump.html
















*A Daily Web Page Summary of the Dirty Lies, Glaring Omissions, *

*Half Truths & *_*Globalist Bias of The NY Times Front Page Headlines*_

"It is always as amusing as it is aggravating to witness the speed with which the intolerant atheists of the political Left can, when the situation calls for it, suddenly switch on a dime and profess such love and empathy for Christianity and, in this case, Islam. The latest display of this hypocrisy is evident in the sudden "rock star" status bestowed upon one *Khizr Khan*, father of *Humayun Saqib Muazzam Khan*, a Pakistani-Muslim-American soldier killed in the Iraq War, in 2004.

In this arcticle by *Maggie Haberman* _(cough cough)_ and *Richard Oppel* _(cough cough)_, Papa Khan is cast as the righteous victim-hero who dares to defy the evil anti-Muslim bigot who would be King. Whether Papa Khan knows it or not, this is just a goof-ball script straight out of Hollywood. Sulzberger's Slimes and the Demonrat Party couldn't possibly care any less about some dead Muslim soldier or his offended parents. Papa Khan is either a pathetic fool who can't see that he is being used, or there are some shekels coming his way in gratitude for the "historic" anti-Trump speech which he delivered during last week's Demonrat Convention in Filthydelphia. Bravo, Papa Khan, bravo -- and a shout-out to Mama Khan for her silent pictures routine.

Regular readers of *The Anti-New York Times *are aware of our disdain for *Orange Man's* ignorant obsession with the fictional phenomenon that he insists we must call "radical Islamic terrorism." However, in this particular case, we are compelled to defend *Orange Man* from the nasty attacks of this ignorant alien buffoon who seems to believe that his loss affords him some special moral authority that absolves him of the burden of logical thinking. Sorry Khan-Man -- nobody gets a logic pass at *The Anti-New York Times*!"

Continued @ http://tomatobubble.com/khizr_khan_vs_donald_trump.html


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## Taygibay

A site concerned with new world order serving to push the owner's sales
of his books / mags on a global Jewish conspiracy and insults Mr Khan
& actually pretty much everyone else?

Good, it will save time not to have to trust your links anymore, Tay.

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## anon45

boomslang said:


> The REAL scum bag is the person who trotted them poor people out there in the first place. Killary has no shame.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't even want to get into a 'who lies more' thing. Killary has shitloads of lies under her belt. Going back to when Bill was banging all those chicks and she covered for him by slandering Bills' babes while HE lied about it. Benghazi. Bosnian 'under enemy fire' landing. Emails...... She's learned from a real bullshit artist. Bill.




Republicans did the same in their convention, so if that's the way you are arguing it's a wash.
*:edit:* The people speaking on either side also weren't 'trotted' out. They made their own decisions to show up and speak in support of their candidates even if they were invited by the respective campaigns. In Mr. Khan's case he wrote his own speech and fully memorized it.

I do agree that the number of speakers were a trap though. The campaign expected Trump to be unable to control himself, to fall for any number of hooks they placed in the convention. Hillary said so herself that he can't control himself.

These people made their own decision to show up, but I do think their was more than that to them showing up, and Trump took the bait.

Trump had any number of positive ways to respond, but instead he blundered in exactly to expectations. Regardless of his feelings and views, he handled it in the worst way possible. His hardcore supporters will follow him regardless, they'd follow him if he shot someone according to his own words, but we can see how he has damaged his support outside that core constituency. He chose the hill that his campaign will very likely die on. He will have to fight for what should be safe core red states like Georgia.

Republicans have tried to pin the blame on Hillary for Benghazi in SEVEN investigations and they still couldn't come up with anything, let it go.

Have you ever seen Hillary lie about something so inconsequential as NFL sending a letter to him about their dissatisfaction on the time of the presidential debates? Something that there is really no need to lie about? No obvious benefit and something so easily proven wrong by the organization in question?

Oh yea, now Trump is laying the groundwork for after the election. He knows he is going to lose, and so hes shaping the narrative already. I hope he doesn't try dodging the debates.

http://www.vox.com/2016/8/2/12350534/trump-warns-rigged-election-clinton

*Trump’s already got an excuse for a November loss: the election will be “rigged"*

He is going to go all the way. If he can't win, he'll try to disrupt the peaceful transition of power as much as possible. He will foment civil unrest with his accusations designed to soothe his bruised ego.

If he's going to do this I hope he slips up and goes too far so he can be arrested for inciting a riot.

He cant be charged for just saying the elections are rigged, but if he starts saying his supporters should take it to the streets and doesn't specify peaceful protesting, or if he says to start a revolution I think he could be charged, I know the actual republicans wont stand behind him while he takes a sh*t all over our history of peaceful transition of power and the democracy we have.

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## Desert Fox

anon45 said:


> *Trump’s already got an excuse for a November loss: the election will be “rigged"*


He's right. Crooked Hillary and co. will try to cheat him *just like they cheated Bernie for the Democrat Nomination.*

​

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## anon45

Desert Fox said:


> He's right. Crooked Hillary and co. will try to cheat him *just like they cheated Bernie for the Democrat Nomination.*
> 
> ​




As always, you have no proof, you make accusations without proof, and the best you can do is show e-mails that prove that *surprise* the DNC prefer a veteran Democrat than an outsider who just joined the party for their platform! That's hardly a secret.

You have no proof that the DNC acted on that preference though.

Im interested in the conspiracy theory you'll come up with about how Hillary actually cheated Trump, instead of just the crying of 'rigged!'

In anycase, Bernie is perfect proof of what I'm about to say...


Gore never contested the Bush win even though he had every right to, much more so than Trump will ever have a right to.

Hillary never contested Obama's win in 2008 even though that race was much closer than the one between Hillary and Bernie.

Bernie supported Hillary, he did not call for riots, he knows he lost and he took it with dignity and grace.

He knows that more so than each individual election and individual politician, a history of peaceful transition of power is so much more important to American Democracy. If accusations of rigging without hard proof become commonplace among the contenders, we will see American Democracy take a real dive.

Trump should learn something about losing with grace and dignity, but I don't expect him to.

 If he's going to do it anyways hopefully he takes it too far and gets arrested. He will definitely be repudiated by the leadership of both sides.

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## gambit

anon45 said:


> *Trump’s already got an excuse for a November loss: the election will be “rigged"*
> 
> He is going to go all the way. If he can't win, he'll try to disrupt the peaceful transition of power as much as possible. He will foment civil unrest with his accusations designed to soothe his bruised ego.



The problem is that he does have a point, and that there will be enough skeptics of the process to side with him. Further, enough of those skeptics will come from the Bernie Sanders camp.

What the DNC did was no different than dictatorships who claimed %99 of the votes. Not %100 because that would be too obvious. %99 will do just fine.

Trump is not doing this for love of country but for love of Trump and the Trump brand. If he does not become President, even if he lose any appeal in any way, he can still later declare how magnificent he was when he ran for President that how that office was taken away from him. He will work hard to portray himself a victim with no parallel in American history. You were a black slave and your children taken away from you ? Pfft. Nothing compares to what I have suffered at the hands of the Democrats.

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## Taygibay

Rigged elections shouldn't scare the GOP anyhow!
Remember 2000?

Just sayin', Tay.


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## RabzonKhan

Good to see, Gold Star Khan family controversy is taking a toll on Trump. 

*GOP congressman: I’m voting for Clinton*
Colin Campbell 5 hours ago

Rep. Richard Hanna, R-N.Y., broke party ranks Tuesday and announced that he would vote for Hillary Clinton in November.

“While I disagree with her on many issues, I will vote for Mrs. Clinton,” he wrote in an op-ed on Syracuse.com.

There have been several high-profile critics of Donald Trump among Republican members of Congress, including some who said they would not vote for their own party’s nominee in the general election. However, Hanna is the first to say he would cast his ballot for Trump’s Democratic opponent.

*In a separate interview with Syracuse.com, Hanna said his decision was motivated by Trump’s recent comments about a Muslim American family whose son heroically died in the Iraq War in 2004.* The soldier’s father, Khizr Khan, passionately criticized Trump during last week’s Democratic National Convention. Trump pushed back in interviews and on Twitter, questioning why Khan’s wife was silent during the speech.

“I saw that and felt incensed,” Hanna told the outlet of Trump’s response. “I was stunned by the callousness of his comments.”

*He added: “I think Trump is a national embarrassment. Is he really the guy you want to have the nuclear codes?”




 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/760537715721007104*

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## boomslang

anon45 said:


> ....Have you ever seen Hillary lie about something so inconsequential as NFL sending a letter to him about their dissatisfaction on the time of the presidential debates? .....




SURE. Killary lied about having to make an emergency landing in Bosnia with AAA and snipers firing as they ran off the tarmac. ALL BULLSHIT ! Video shows she was greeted by a little girl bearing flowers, kisses and hugs from dignataries and she walked off without so much as a firecracker going off. Pretty 'inconsequential'. Killary is a skank.



anon45 said:


> ...You have no proof that the DNC acted on that preference though....



Please.

If Trump were president in 2004 Capt. Khan, thousands of other American sons and daughters and countless Iraqis' would still be alive. Trump was against the Iraq war. Killary voted FOR the war so in a way she had a hand in Capt. Khans' death. I wonder if the Khan family knows about that bit of info ? Way to go, Killary !!


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## anon45

gambit said:


> The problem is that he does have a point, and that there will be enough skeptics of the process to side with him. Further, enough of those skeptics will come from the Bernie Sanders camp.
> 
> What the DNC did was no different than dictatorships who claimed %99 of the votes. Not %100 because that would be too obvious. %99 will do just fine.
> 
> Trump is not doing this for love of country but for love of Trump and the Trump brand. If he does not become President, even if he lose any appeal in any way, he can still later declare how magnificent he was when he ran for President that how that office was taken away from him. He will work hard to portray himself a victim with no parallel in American history. You were a black slave and your children taken away from you ? Pfft. Nothing compares to what I have suffered at the hands of the Democrats.




I've done a lookthrough of the leaked emails using dnc as the keyword. The most i've seen is a definite preference for Hillary, which is not surprising given the different status of Bernie and Hillary in the party. One is an outsider, the other is a veteran party member.

I haven't seen any smoking gun that the DNC rigged the primaries though. If you have smoking gun proof about DNC supported vote rigging and not just dnc staffers complaining about Bernie, please provide a link to the relevant DNC email, or an article with the relevant DNC email, so I can look through for it.

https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/?q...o=&nofrom=&noto=&count=50&sort=0#searchresult



boomslang said:


> SURE. Killary lied about having to make an emergency landing in Bosnia with AAA and snipers firing as they ran off the tarmac. ALL BULLSHIT !



True, I forgot about that. Alright then they both have problems there.



boomslang said:


> Please.
> 
> If Trump were president in 2004 Capt. Khan, thousands of other American sons and daughters and countless Iraqis' would still be alive. Trump was against the Iraq war. Killary voted FOR the war so in a way she had a hand in Capt. Khans' death. I wonder if the Khan family knows about that bit of info ? Way to go, Killary !!



If Obama or Hillary were president in 2000 we would have never invaded Iraq in the first place. Bush was pushing for it based on family grudges with bad intelligence with probably some pushing from his vp. It's irrelevant, neither here nor there.

As for her hand in it, she admits she made a mistake, she can't turn back time and vote the other way knowing Bush was going to forgo diplomacy. Despite that mistake, she is still a better candidate than Trump, and the father recognizes this with all the bad that Trump can do, and with the absolute lack of control Trump has shown. 

Most importantly and pertinent to his role if he was president, is both his lack of knowledge on foreign policy, and how easily he is baited.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...n_told_the_truth_about_her_iraq_war_vote.html



> In response, Clinton acknowledged, as she has on previous occasions, that she’d made a mistake. But she also offered an explanation for her vote, something she has rarely done in the past. President Bush, she told the audience, had made a “very explicit appeal” that “getting this vote would be a strong piece of leverage in order to finish the inspections.” In other words, a resolution to use force would prod Saddam Hussein into readmitting U.N. inspectors, so they could continue their mission of verifying whether or not he had destroyed his chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons sites. In other words, Clinton was now claiming she voted the way she did in the interests of diplomacy; the problem was that Bush went back on his word—he invaded before giving the inspectors enough time.
> ......
> 
> 
> The evidence is clear. On Oct. 10, 2002, during the Senate debate on a resolution to authorize the use of force in Iraq, Clinton rose to express her highly qualified support. First, though, she criticized the idea of attacking Saddam then and there, either alone or “with any allies we can muster.” Such a course, she said, “is fraught with danger,” in part because “it would set a precedent that could come back to haunt us,” legitimizing invasions that Russia might launch against Georgia, India against Pakistan, or China against Taiwan.
> 
> “So,” she continued, “the question is, how do we do our best to both diffuse the threat Saddam Hussein poses to his people, the region, including Israel, and the United States—and, at the same time, work to maximize our international support and strengthen the United Nations.”
> 
> She went on to say that there was “no perfect approach to this thorny dilemma” and that “people of good faith and high intelligence can reach diametrically opposing conclusions.” But, she concluded, “I believe the best course is to go to the United Nations for a strong resolution” that calls “for complete, unlimited inspections with cooperation expected and demanded” from Saddam.
> 
> “If we get the resolution the president seeks, and Saddam complies,” Clinton added, “disarmament can proceed and the threat can be eliminated. … If we get the resolution and Saddam does not comply, we can attack him with far more support and legitimacy than we would have otherwise.” This international support is “crucial,” she added, because, “after shots are fired and bombs are dropped, not all consequences are predictable.”
> 
> Then came, from today’s vantage, the key passage: “Even though the resolution before the Senate is not as strong as I would like in requiring the diplomatic route first … I take the president at his word that he will try hard to pass a United Nations resolution and seek to avoid war, if possible. Because bipartisan support for this resolution makes success in the United Nations more likely and war less likely—and because a good faith effort by the United States, even if it fails, will bring more allies and legitimacy to our cause—I have concluded, after careful and serious consideration, that a vote for the resolution best serves the security of our nation. If we were to defeat this resolution or pass it with only a few Democrats, I am concerned that those who want to pretend this problem will go away with delay will oppose any United Nations resolution calling for unrestricted inspections.”
> 
> She added, “This is a difficult vote. This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make. Any vote that may lead to war should be hard, but I cast it with conviction. … My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of preemption or for unilateralism or for the arrogance of American power or purpose.” A vote for the resolution, she argued, “is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our president. And we say to him: Use these powers wisely and as a last resort.”

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## anon45

here is classic Trump


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## boomslang

anon45 said:


> ...True, I forgot about that. Alright then they both have problems there....
> ...If Obama or Hillary were president in 2000 we would have never invaded Iraq in the first place.





EVERY politician is a bullshit artist. Some are better than others. If they weren't they wouldn't be politicians. Killary voted FOR the war.


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## Desert Fox

boomslang said:


> EVERY politician is a bullshit artist. Some are better than others. If they weren't they wouldn't be politicians. Killary voted FOR the war.



Not to forget she was also in favor of destroying Libya and Syria, giving rise to ISIS and al-Nusra.

Killary has the blood of every ISIS victim on her hands.

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## RabzonKhan

boomslang said:


> Look up Bill Clintons draft record. Artful Dodger, to say the least. Plus, being the 'leader of the free world' he could have banged any chick he wanted yet he banged a fat one, left his spunk on her dress and then looked into the cameras a hundred times and lied about it. And then, he was impeached for it. Good guy.


Red Herring!


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## boomslang

RabzonKhan said:


> Red Herring!




No. Red handed. And Killary stood up there and slandered those women who Bill banged, knowing FULL WELL that Bill DID in fact bang them.


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## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> So a group of corrupt wall street politicians who have the blood of Iraqis, Libyans, & Syrians on their hands oppose Trump? Trump must be doing something good.
> 
> 
> Pictures worth a thousand words.
> 
> View attachment 322521


And still he joined their party and has one of them as his VP.



CorporateAffairs said:


> Hillary is losing. For sure.


You and your imaginations!

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## Taygibay

boomslang said:


> And Killary stood up there and slandered those women who Bill banged, knowing FULL WELL that Bill banged them.




Pics or it didn't happen.

Tay.


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## boomslang

Taygibay said:


> Pics or it didn't happen.
> 
> Tay.



Bills DNA dripping down the front of Monicas' blue dress enough for me.


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## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> He's right. Crooked Hillary and co. will try to cheat him *just like they cheated Bernie for the Democrat Nomination.*
> 
> ​


You and your propaganda, please explain how did they cheated Bernie?

Hillary Clinton won 3,775,437 more popular votes than Bernie

Hillary 15,805,136

Bernie 12,029,699 *Link *


And here’s more news for you, enjoy!

But Clinton has consolidated her support among primary voters who backed Bernie Sanders as well. Before the convention, Clinton garnered only 78 percent of Sanders supporters last weekend, with 12 percent going to Trump, 6 percent voting for neither and 4 percent voting for a third party candidate.

*But now, 91 percent of Sanders backers say they will vote for Clinton and 6 for Trump*, who has predicted that the Vermont lawmaker's supporters will come to his side. Link


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> And still he joined their party and has one of them as his VP.



He had very limited options to choose from. He had to appease the party bosses in order to put up an image of unity in the party.

Sometimes you have to make concessions for political reasons.

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## Taygibay

boomslang said:


> Bills DNA dripping down the front of Monicas' blue dress enough for me.


That's but one girl, not a whole little black book?

And your use of DNA was unusually discreet of you, LOL.
I had another 3 letters word in mind. 

Still, this is "tha Net" so pics pliz!

Good evening, Tay.

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## Desert Fox

boomslang said:


> Bills DNA dripping down the front of Monicas' blue dress enough for me.



It was enough for everyone with a brain.


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## RabzonKhan

boomslang said:


> *If Trump were president in 2004 Capt. Khan, thousands of other American sons and daughters and countless Iraqis' would still be alive. Trump was against the Iraq war. *Killary voted FOR the war so in a way she had a hand in Capt. Khans' death. I wonder if the Khan family knows about that bit of info ? Way to go, Killary !!


Trump is a liar, the fact is, he supported the war. In an interview to Howard Stern, when Stern asked him if he supports invading Iraq, Trump said, yeah, I guess so.

And when the war started, he gave an interview to Fox News and all what he was talking was about the stock market and how the market will benefit from the Iraq war, blah blah blah.


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## Taygibay

Desert Fox said:


> It was enough for everyone with a brain.



Yes, agreed for Monica but not for


boomslang said:


> *those women* who_m _Bill banged


that's all!

Or are we talking multiplying breads here?

Tay.


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## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> He had very limited options to choose from. He had to appease the party bosses in order to put up an image of unity in the party.
> 
> Sometimes you have to make concessions for political reasons.


Congratulations, Trump has become a politician!


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## boomslang

Taygibay said:


> ...Still, this is "tha Net" so pics pliz!
> 
> Good evening, Tay.



He admitted to banging Jennifer Flowers for years, too. This is a subject you shouldn't even be trying to argue. Bill's banging chicks and they aint Killary. And it hasn't been Killary for a long time.


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## anon45

Desert Fox said:


> He had very limited options to choose from. He had to appease the party bosses in order to put up an image of unity in the party.
> 
> Sometimes you have to make concessions for political reasons.



Trump couldn't give 2 sh*ts about party unity

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...49f028-58e9-11e6-831d-0324760ca856_story.html


The Republican party is gonna shatter with him as their representative. The Republicans will become a permanent opposition, the hardcore trump at whatever cost alt rights will start their own party (lets just call it the Trump party) that will get a perpetual 5 percent or so, and the Democrats will be the party in charge for a generation, or until the conservatives unify again.more likely both the main parties move left as the hardest right members of the party render themselves politically irrelevant.


boomslang said:


> EVERY politician is a bullshit artist. Some are better than others. If they weren't they wouldn't be politicians. Killary voted FOR the war.




That Slate article gives the context and the nuance.

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## RabzonKhan

*Election Update: Is Clinton’s Lead A Bounce Or A New Equilibrium?*

By Nate Silver AUG 2, 2016 

Hillary Clinton continues to poll strongly in surveys conducted after the Democratic National Convention, which show her having received a convention bounce and gaining a meaningful lead over Donald Trump. The polls are coming in quickly enough that it’s somewhat futile to tick them off one by one, but here are some highs and lows as of 10 a.m. Eastern Time on Tuesday:


Clinton’s smallest lead in any fully post-DNC national survey is 5 percentage points.1 She achieved that 5 percentage point lead in several polls, such as this one from Public Policy Polling.
*Her largest lead is 15 points,* in a poll from RABA Research. That poll is something of an outlier, though, with most polls showing Clinton’s lead in the 5- to 8-point range.
Clinton’s largest bounce in any national poll, as measured in comparison to another survey by the same pollster conducted with a full set of interviews after the Republican National Convention, is 13 percentage points. That comes from a CNN survey, which showed her turning a 5-point deficit into an 8-point lead.
And her smallest bounce in any such survey is from YouGov, which had her lead growing from 2 percentage points to 5 points, a 3-point bounce.
There are some hints that Clinton’s post-convention lead over Trump will eventually settle in at about 7 percentage points, give or take a couple points. The biggest tip-off is that both the national polls and the state polls we’ve seen so far look similar to the ones we were seeing in June, when Clinton maintained a lead over Trump of about 7 points after wrapping up the Democratic nomination. Since Clinton and Trump were roughly tied after the GOP convention, a 7-point lead for Clinton would mean she’d gotten about a 7-point bounce, double the size of Trump’s.

FiveThirtyEight’s forecast models aren’t used to seeing a lot of 7-point overnight shifts, which rarely occur outside the conventions. (In recent elections, they’ve also rarely occurred _during_ the conventions, with most convention bounces looking more like the modest one Trump got.) So the models may still need another day or two to catch up. *Read more*


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## Taygibay

boomslang said:


> This is a subject you shouldn't even be trying to argue. Bill's banging chicks and they aint Killary.



Man, I'm French too, remember? Our diminutive king of consensus
A.K.A. _indecisive in chief_ prez is apparently doing every tall homely
girl he can find in a ten miles radius from the Élysée.
It's just that it really doesn't matter in the French setting as long as it
doesn't bear on state matters.

The guy that sent America to the Moon was quite a dog too, you know?
And heck, Trump's on his third trophy wife!

Up to a point, being a player is probably a pre-requiste for the job ...

Anyhow, GN, Tay.

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## boomslang

boomslang said:


> He admitted to banging Jennifer Flowers for years, too. This is a subject you shouldn't even be trying to argue. Bill's banging chicks and they aint Killary. And it hasn't been Killary for a long time.




What we're loosing sight of is not how many chicks Bill is banging, it's that Bill is one of historys greatest bullshit artists ( 'It depends on what your definition of 'is' is.') and he's taught Killary for 40 years how to spin shit.



Taygibay said:


> Man, I'm French too, remember? Our diminutive king of consensus
> A.K.A. _indecisive in chief_ prez is apparently doing every tall homely
> girl he can find in a ten miles radius from the Élysée.
> It's just that it really doesn't matter in the French setting as long as it
> doesn't bear on state matters.
> 
> The guy that sent America to the Moon was quite a dog too, you know?
> And heck, Trump's on his third trophy wife!
> 
> Up to a point, being a player is probably a pre-requiste for the job ...
> 
> Anyhow, GN, Tay.




Jacque Cousteau had chicks everywhere. When he died, tons came out of the woodwork wanting a slice of his cash.


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## gambit

anon45 said:


> I've done a lookthrough of the leaked emails using dnc as the keyword. The most i've seen is a definite preference for Hillary, which is not surprising given the different status of Bernie and Hillary in the party. One is an outsider, the other is a veteran party member.
> 
> I haven't seen any smoking gun that the DNC rigged the primaries though. If you have smoking gun proof about DNC supported vote rigging and not just dnc staffers complaining about Bernie, please provide a link to the relevant DNC email, or an article with the relevant DNC email, so I can look through for it.
> 
> https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/?q...o=&nofrom=&noto=&count=50&sort=0#searchresult


My point is not about bulletproof proofs, but about suspicion and perception. See post 889 from the French guy.

To me, a hard rig would be something like what Stalin said on who counts the votes matter, reprogram the computer, or lost ballots. A soft rig would be bribery, procedural maneuverings, or media collusion. Remember 'journolist' ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JournoList

That is a soft rig.


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## Anubis

gambit said:


> The problem is that he does have a point, and that there will be enough skeptics of the process to side with him. Further, enough of those skeptics will come from the Bernie Sanders camp.
> 
> What the DNC did was no different than dictatorships who claimed %99 of the votes. Not %100 because that would be too obvious. %99 will do just fine.
> 
> Trump is not doing this for love of country but for love of Trump and the Trump brand. If he does not become President, even if he lose any appeal in any way, he can still later declare how magnificent he was when he ran for President that how that office was taken away from him. He will work hard to portray himself a victim with no parallel in American history. You were a black slave and your children taken away from you ? Pfft. Nothing compares to what I have suffered at the hands of the Democrats.


You have been in the US for a considerable time.....how long do you recon the republicans will continue listening to Trump even after he looses? If you look at McCain or Romney they didn't continue to have the following after they lost but Palin held on to it(among a certain fringe of the party...but she's stuck to it)....Do you think Trump will be like Palin or McCain/Romney? Because that's what matters....not what Trump cries about but whether the Republican voters stay loyal to him.


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## gambit

Anubis said:


> You have been in the US for a considerable time.....how long do you recon the republicans will continue listening to Trump even after he looses? If you look at McCain or Romney they didn't continue to have the following after they lost but Palin held on to it(among a certain fringe of the party...but she's stuck to it)....Do you think Trump will be like Palin or McCain/Romney? Because that's what matters....not what Trump cries about but whether the Republican voters stay loyal to him.


If Trump lose the Presidency, I predict he will be abandoned faster and farther than Sara Palin.

Call Palin goofy, if you will. But at least she is honest about what kind of political person she is, which is a genuine conservative and Republican. The Trumpsters that I know, once pressed, admit that they know what Trump is, which is a political chameleon. Their support for Trump is more the need for a vehicle to focus and express their frustrations at 'establishment Republican' in general and at Washington DC in particular, than that somehow Trump have adequately convinced them that Trump is a genuine conservative and Republican. In other words, they know the man is a fraud. It is not that they have been 'taken in' into the fraud, it is that they do not care.

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## Devil Soul

*US election 2016: Republican divisions grow over Trump*

1 hour ago

From the sectionUS Election 2016
Fresh divisions are emerging within the US Republican Party over its presidential candidate Donald Trump.

Republican donor Meg Whitman has endorsed his rival Hillary Clinton, saying Mr Trump's "demagoguery" had undermined the national fabric.

Senior party activist Jan Halper-Hayes told the BBC she thought Mr Trump was "psychologically unbalanced".

In the latest controversy, Mr Trump has refused to support two senior figures in his own party.

In an interview for the Washington Post, he said he was "just not quite there yet" when asked if he would endorse House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senator John McCain, who are up for re-election in November. Both men have publicly criticised him.

Mr Trump's campaign has been marked by a series of controversial statements.

Ms Whitman, writing on Facebook, said that to vote Republican out of party loyalty alone "would be to endorse a candidacy that I believe has exploited anger, grievance, xenophobia and racial division".

"Trump's unsteady hand would endanger our prosperity and national security. His authoritarian character could threaten much more," the Hewlett-Packard executive said.





Image copyrightAP
Image captionMeg Whitman is a senior Republican Party fundraiser and donor
Dr Halper-Hayes, vice-president of Republicans Overseas Worldwide, told the BBC's Today programme that she was "very concerned" about Mr Trump's behaviour, although she would not go so far as to endorse Mrs Clinton.

"I think there is an element of him that truly is psychologically unbalanced, and I feel very guilty for saying this because I'm a Republican and I want the Republican ticket to win," she said.

"But Donald is out of control right now and he's not listening to anyone."

Dozens of senior Republican Party figures have already said they would not vote for Mr Trump, including the party's 2012 nominee Mitt Romney and former Florida Governor Jeb Bush.

*Muslim soldier row*
New York Representative Richard Hanna became the first Republican member of Congress to publicly say he would vote for Mrs Clinton. He described Mr Trump as "deeply flawed in endless ways".

On Monday, Sally Bradshaw, a top adviser to Jeb Bush, said that Mr Trump's candidacy had convinced her to leave the Republican Party.

Many Republicans opposed to Mr Trump have stopped short of supporting Mrs Clinton, saying they would vote for a third candidate instead.

However, former Republican congressman John LeBoutillier told the BBC's Newsday programme he believed many Republican politicians would back Mrs Clinton.

"Now I think in private a lot of Republican congressmen are going to vote for Hillary, they can't stand Trump," he said.

Despite the criticism, Mr Trump tweeted on Wednesday that there was "great unity in my campaign, perhaps greater than ever before".

The property billionaire has been heavily under fire over a war of words he has been waging with the bereaved parents of a US Muslim soldier killed in Iraq.




Image copyrightAFP
Image captionKhizr Khan, whose son Capt Humayun Khan died in Iraq, criticised Mr Trump at the Democratic National Convention
Democratic and Republican leaders as well as veterans' groups quickly rounded on him.

Mr Trump's son Eric defended his father's comments about the Khans, telling CBS News that they had been been "blown hugely out of proportion".

The row led US President Barack Obama to make his strongest comments yet on Mr Trump, saying he was "unfit" to serve as president.

In response, Mr Trump dismissed President Obama's time in the White House as a "disaster".

"He's been weak, he's been ineffective... the worst president, maybe, in the history of our country", he said in a Fox News interview.

Mr Trump's spokeswoman Katrina Pierson later caused a social media storm by blaming both President Obama and Mrs Clinton for the death of Capt Humayun Khan, citing their policies on Iraq. Capt Khan died in 2004 when Mrs Clinton was in the US Senate and five years before Mr Obama was elected to the White House.

Mrs Clinton has been actively courting moderate Republicans. A Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll suggested she had extended her lead over Mr Trump to eight percentage points, from six points on Friday.

*Republicans not voting for Mr Trump*

Barbara Bush, former first lady
Jeb Bush, former Florida governor, 2016 presidential candidate
William Cohen, former secretary of defence
Jeff Flake, Arizona senator
Lindsey Graham, South Carolina senator, 2016 presidential candidate
Larry Hogan, Maryland governor
John Kasich, Ohio governor, 2016 presidential candidate
Mark Kirk, Illinois senator
Mitt Romney, former Massachusetts governor, 2012 Republican presidential nominee
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Florida congresswoman
Ben Sasse, Nebraska senator
*Republicans voting for Mrs Clinton*

Richard Armitage, former deputy secretary of state
Hank Paulson, former treasury secretary
Brent Scowcroft, former national security adviser
Richard Hanna, New York congressman
Meg Whitman, party donor and fundraiser
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-36962942

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## F-22Raptor

Is this the beginning of the end for Donald Trump?


Maybe this is how it ends for Donald Trump: not with a bang but with a child’s whimper.

The Republican presidential nominee, rallying supporters in a high school auditorium here, was talking about Chinese currency manipulation when an infant began to cry.

“Don’t worry about that baby. I love babies,” he said. “Don’t worry. The mom’s running around like — don’t worry about it, you know. It’s young and beautiful and healthy, and that’s what we want.”

It was an unexpected moment of tenderness from the strongman — and it lasted precisely 55 seconds.

“Actually, I was only kidding: You can get the baby out of here,” he said when the child continued to cry. “I think she really believed me that I love having a baby crying while I’m speaking. That’s okay. People don’t understand, that’s okay.”

There were murmurs and some uncomfortable laughter.

After attacking prisoners of war, virtually every racial minority in the United States and even the parents of a fallen U.S. soldier, it was perhaps just a matter of time until Trump got around to attacking a mother and her baby.

It was all part of an hour-long show in which Trump called the country a disaster; described Hillary Clinton as a “thief,” a “crook” and the “Devil”; celebrated his own golf course (“I have tremendous acreage”); praised Vladimir Putin; renewed the bogus charge that the Islamic State “stole our passport machine”; and continued on while event staff escorted out silent protesters who wore T-shirts that said “Black Lives Matter” and “Islam is Peace” and who did nothing more than make peace signs with their fingers.

Before the event, a group of local college-age kids had stocked up on “Hillary for Prison” T-shirts and Trump baseball caps. After the event, the previously Trump-leaning kids pronounced themselves unimpressed.

“That was a waste of time,” said Davis Rosser.

“I learned he really likes himself,” said John McDermott.

“And he has a golf course,” added Andrew Celio.

So would they vote for Trump?

“I’m less inclined,” said Celio.

“I’ll grudgingly vote for Hillary,” said Rosser.

Add those straws in the wind to the massive blowback now building against Trump’s candidacy. He has for his entire campaign operated under the theory that all publicity is good publicity, that he’ll dominate at the polls if he can dominate each news cycle with his latest outrage — and, for a long time, it worked.

But the act is wearing thin. He has faced building criticism from conservatives and fellow Republicans for encouraging Russia to hack Clinton’s emails, for apparently being unaware of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and for senselessly and repeatedly attacking the Muslim parents of a slain American soldier. His refusal Tuesday to support Paul Ryan or John McCain in their primaries (both men are supporting him) will surely heighten the criticism.

Polls show Clinton rebuilding the substantial lead she had before the conventions and before the FBI director’s scalding comments on her emails. And Trump for the first time appears to be contemplating the possibility of defeat.

Longtime Trump adviser Roger Stone, in an interview with Breitbart broadcast Friday, said Trump should begin talking about voter fraud, suggesting “this election will be illegitimate.” Sure enough, on Monday, Trump told a crowd that “I’m afraid the election’s gonna be rigged.” He resumed the theme here on Tuesday, saying “we’re running against a rigged system,” which was also “rigged against Bernie Sanders.”

The high school was a small venue for Trump and could fit only about half of the 2,000 who showed up. But he gave the crowd a full dose of fear: “We are like the whipping post . . . they’re killing us . . . ripped us to shreds . . . another Venezuela . . . a war zone.”

He also brought onstage a veteran who offered Trump his Purple Heart. “I always wanted to get the Purple Heart,” said Trump, whose multiple deferments kept him out of Vietnam. “This was much easier.”

Trump supporters I spoke with embraced his fear of a “rigged” election. But there are signs that Trump’s paranoia and vindictiveness are losing their power, even among insiders. When I arrived at the media entrance here, I expected to be turned away, because Trump’s nominal blacklist of The Post remains in effect. (He later granted an interview to The Post’s Philip Rucker.)

To my surprise, an event staffer handed me a credential — apparently this person’s regard for the First Amendment exceeded his regard for Trump — and I was safely seated in the press section before a Trump aide, in the vain hope of evicting me, came to tell me I was admitted “in error.”

No. The error was Trump’s belief that, in a free society, you can ban news organizations from public events. It’s welcome to see Republicans, conservatives and even some Trump supporters tiring of his assaults on democracy and decency.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...de43fc-58f3-11e6-9aee-8075993d73a2_story.html

Donald Trump’s Campaign Might Actually Implode


Over the last 24 hours, Donald Trump has insulted his party’s former presidential nominee (former prisoner of war John McCain, for allegedly turning his back on veterans!), its current Republican speaker of the House, the parents of a slain war hero, the capital city of the state that is the linchpin of his electoral strategy, and a baby. None of these statements would make a list of Donald Trump’s 50 worst campaign gaffes. And yet their cumulative impact may be reaching a tipping point that causes his party to abandon him.

Trump’s wild unfitness for elected office, let alone the highest one in the land, has been manifest for years. Evidence continues to pour forth at an astonishing pace. Last night, his still-loyal aide Corey Lewandowski revived the conspiracy theory that President Obama has hidden a secret foreign birth that would disqualify him as president. Joe Scarborough reports that, in foreign-policy briefings, Trump has repeatedly asked why it is that the United States can’t use nuclear weapons.

We already knew Trump was an ignorant, manically aggressive conspiracy theorist, which has caused a handful of them to withhold endorsements. What has especially pained Republicans is his lack of political acuity. His mishandling of Khizr Khan’s speech to the Democratic National Convention has reportedly caused grave misgivings among his staff. The Khan speech was an extraordinarily moving expression of the moral case that Trump’s ethno-nationalist ideology betrays the American idea. On a purely political level, though, the speech may not have amounted to much — it was delivered before network coverage of the conventions began, and might have lived on only in social-media circulation if Trump hadn’t responded with a series of deranged attacks on the parents of an American war hero.

From the standpoint of the staffers working to make Trump president, this behavior was worse than immoral. It was downright unprofessional. John Harwood reports that Paul Manafort, the supposed adult in charge of the campaign who can curtail the candidate’s self-destructive impulses, is “not challenging Trump anymore. Mailing it in,” and the other staff is (metaphorically, one assumes) “suicidal.” Ali Vitali confirms Harwood’s report, and adds that the situation is “way worse than people realize.” According to Dana Bash, these staffers “feel like they are wasting their time.”

This is sad for the Trump staffers, who have worked so hard to give an unstable demagogue control of the executive branch. More worrisome for Trump is the fact that Reince Priebus, who chairs the Republican National Committee, has “express[ed] concerns” to Trump, and is even “apoplectic.” Priebus is a key force holding the party apparatus behind its unstable presidential nominee. He is also from Wisconsin, and close with Paul Ryan, who remains the de facto leader of the national party, Trump notwithstanding. Despite the mildness of the slight to Ryan, whom Trump merely said he was not ready to endorse _yet_, his beloved status has made Trump’s latest comment a possible tipping point. Alex Burns reports, “Republicans now say Mr. Trump’s obstinacy in addressing perhaps the gravest crisis of his campaign may trigger drastic defections within the party, and Republican lawmakers and strategists have begun to entertain abandoning him en masse.” And according to Jon Karl, leading Republicans are “actively exploring” how to replace their nominee if he drops out. You can insult entire ethnicities and genders, spout conspiracy theories galore, betray a complete ignorance of every issue a president has to handle, but staying neutral on Paul Ryan’s primary race is an unforgivable offense.

None of this is to say that Trump will drop out, or that the party will abandon him. Republicans have calculated that turning against their nominee threatens to turn the election into a rout that would bring down other Republicans down-ballot. The party will probably stagger on to November. But, for the first time, an actual revolt of some kind is on the table.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/08/donald-trumps-campaign-might-actually-implode.html

Is it safe to say the last week or so of the Trump campaign has been a total disaster?

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## Desert Fox

*TRUMP ON TOP in Latest USC-LA Times Daybreak Tracking Poll – But It Gets Even Better…*

Jim Hoft Aug 3rd, 2016 9:45 am 188 Comments

*Donald Trump leads Hillary Clinton 45.3 to 43.7 in the latest USC-LA Times Daybreak tracking poll.*





*But the news is even better for Donald Trump…*
The poll is weighted to match demographics from the 2012 election.

*No one in their right mind believes Democrats have the advantage this year.*

*Donald Trump shattered the previous GOP primary record by 1.4 million votes this year — and that was with 17 candidates in the race!*

*Hillary Clinton* received 1.5 million fewer votes this year than she did in 2008 – when she lost!

*Trump continues to sell out venue after venue.*





Hillary can’t fill a high school gymnasium this week without hauling in high school kids to sit in the stands.





The LA Times reported, via Free Republic:

The USC Dornsife/L.A. Times Presidential Election “Daybreak” Poll asks more than 400 people each day about their voting intentions. The poll is part of the Understanding America Study (UAS) at the University of Southern California’s Dornsife Center for Economic and Social Research.

Each day’s poll respondents are a subset of the UAS election panel, roughly 3000 U.S. citizens who were randomly recruited from among all households in the United States. Respondents are asked three predictive questions: What is the percent chance that… (1) you will vote in the presidential election? (2) you will vote for Clinton, Trump, or someone else? and (3) Clinton, Trump or someone else will win?

Results are weighted to match demographic characteristics, such as race and gender, from the U.S. Census Current Population Survey and aligned to the 2012 presidential election outcome using self-reported vote in that election.

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## Taygibay

Devil Soul said:


> In an interview for the Washington Post, he said he was "just not quite there yet" ...



Which is what Ryan had said in May just before endorsing Trump!
The Donald is most likely thinking himself very smart in returning
the favour this way. In the interview, he repeats that phrase for good measure.

Most well reared adults will think of it as school age behaviour instead.

No surprise, Tay.

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## Desert Fox

Trump rallies are packed. The latest one in PA was jam packed.

Meanwhile crooked Hillary could barely fill a high school gymnasium and had to haul in teenagers 

http://linkis.com/thegatewaypundit.com/L9nVX

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## RabzonKhan

Now that’s going to hurt, Trump, be a man, apologize! 


*Sarah Palin's son-in-law hits Trump*
The Medal of Honor winner had some advice for the Republican presidential nominee.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/760592745178083328


Taygibay said:


> Which is what Ryan had said in May just before endorsing Trump!
> The Donald is most likely thinking himself very smart in returning
> the favour this way. In the interview, he repeats that phrase for good measure.
> 
> Most well reared adults will think of it as school age behaviour instead.
> 
> No surprise, Tay.


Trump’s VP, Mike Pence has endorsed the speaker, what a teamwork. 



Desert Fox said:


> *TRUMP ON TOP in Latest USC-LA Times Daybreak Tracking Poll – But It Gets Even Better…*
> 
> Jim Hoft Aug 3rd, 2016 9:45 am 188 Comments
> 
> *Donald Trump leads Hillary Clinton 45.3 to 43.7 in the latest USC-LA Times Daybreak tracking poll.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *But the news is even better for Donald Trump…*
> The poll is weighted to match demographics from the 2012 election.
> 
> *No one in their right mind believes Democrats have the advantage this year.*
> 
> *Donald Trump shattered the previous GOP primary record by 1.4 million votes this year — and that was with 17 candidates in the race!*
> 
> *Hillary Clinton* received 1.5 million fewer votes this year than she did in 2008 – when she lost!
> 
> *Trump continues to sell out venue after venue.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary can’t fill a high school gymnasium this week without hauling in high school kids to sit in the stands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The LA Times reported, via Free Republic:
> 
> The USC Dornsife/L.A. Times Presidential Election “Daybreak” Poll asks more than 400 people each day about their voting intentions. The poll is part of the Understanding America Study (UAS) at the University of Southern California’s Dornsife Center for Economic and Social Research.
> 
> Each day’s poll respondents are a subset of the UAS election panel, roughly 3000 U.S. citizens who were randomly recruited from among all households in the United States. Respondents are asked three predictive questions: What is the percent chance that… (1) you will vote in the presidential election? (2) you will vote for Clinton, Trump, or someone else? and (3) Clinton, Trump or someone else will win?
> 
> Results are weighted to match demographic characteristics, such as race and gender, from the U.S. Census Current Population Survey and aligned to the 2012 presidential election outcome using self-reported vote in that election.


Enjoy!

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKCN10D2GD

*Clinton extends lead over Trump to 8 percentage points: Reuters/Ipsos*

*Politics* | Wed Aug 3, 2016 10:27am EDT

Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton extended her lead over Republican rival Donald Trump to eight percentage points, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released on Tuesday, from six points on Friday.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/01/politics/trump-vs-clinton-presidential-polls-election-2016/

Tue August 2, 2016

*Washington (CNN)Hillary Clinton emerges from her party's convention in Philadelphia with a restored lead over Donald Trump, having earned a 7-point convention bounce, according to a new CNN/ORC Poll.*


https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/08/01/yougoveconomist-poll-july-30-august-1-2016/

_f the 2016 presidential election were being held today and the candidates were Hillary Clinton, the Democrat, Donald Trump, the Republican, Gary Johnson, the Libertarian, and Jill Stein, from the Green Party, who would you vote for?_

· *Hillary Clinton: 41% (+1)*

· *Donald Trump: 36% (-2)*



Desert Fox said:


> Trump rallies are packed. The latest one in PA was jam packed.
> 
> Meanwhile crooked Hillary could barely fill a high school gymnasium and had to haul in teenagers
> 
> http://linkis.com/thegatewaypundit.com/L9nVX


DIL KO BEHLANE KE LIYE GHALIB YE KHAYAL ACHHA HAI. 

But if rallies were really that important, than Bernie Sanders would had won the primaries, one of his largest rally drew almost 28,000 people, but Hillary defeated him with almost 3.8 million popular votes.

But its okay, whatever floats your boat!

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## RabzonKhan

*The Road to 270*


*2016 Election: Clinton vs. Trump*

This map will track the electoral vote count for the 2016 presidential election based on polling. States that have been polled in 2016 are based on a polling average, while unpolled states are shown based on the 2012 result for that state. 

Close states (poll difference between Clinton and Trump averaging 5 points or less) are shown as toss up (tan). Leaning states (5-10 points) are a lighter blue/red. Darker blue/red states are averaging a spread of greater than 10 points or have not yet been polled in 2016. _Last Update: August 3, 2016_










When 12 or fewer states remain unselected (tan color) on the above 2016 map, you will see the number of possible combinations remaining to get each party's candidate to 270 Electoral Votes. Click the link provided to see each winning combination.

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## JanjaWeed

In Trump's own word...that's yoooge!

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## anon45

JanjaWeed said:


> In Trump's own word...that's yoooge!



Obviously liberal media bias! Fox News is controlled by the Clintons and the Liberal Lizards following that reptile Kenyan Muslim Obama!

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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/760836150760050689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/760912806036303872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/760891100173180928


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## anon45

*Donald Trump and Secret Societies: Did The Republican Nominee Fund the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA)*





(Photo credit wonkette.com)
*Is Pedophilia a Bridge Too Far For Even the Most Enthusiastic “Trump-eter”?*
Ithas not been an easy run for the Donald these past few days.
His ongoing feud with the Gold Star Family of a marine who died in the Iraq war, his slumping poll numbers in swing states, prominent figures in his own party distancing themselves from his more recent statements show some cracks forming in his unbreakable smile. Piling on top of this are the recurrence of rumors from several years ago questioning the candidate’s ties to The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA).






NAMBLA members protesting in 1982 (Photo credit NAMBLA.org)
*What is NAMBLA?*
NAMBLA is a rather nefarious organization with the stated goal of “..work[ing] to abolish age-of-consent laws criminalizing adult sexual involvement with minors and campaigns for the release of men who have been jailed for sexual contacts with minors that did not involve coercion”. The introduction of many Americans to this secret society was the 2000 episode of the comedy central show _South Park__, _they are a very real organization. In the late 90’s before their meetings went online, they were one of the largest pro-pedophile organizations. Since then, their numbers have dwindled as more members have joined online pro-pedophilia groups. In 2005, they were listed as operating out of Trump’s hometown.






Screengrab of interview with KKK leadership endorsing Trump (full interview athttp://www.nbc12.com/story/31846257...iolent-past-declares-trump-best-for-president)
*NAMBLA : “our membership list has NEVER come into the possession of any unauthorized person or law enforcement”.*
This would not be the first time that Trump has been supported by a societywith secret members. Several white nationalist groups including the Klu Klux Klan (KKK) proudly support him, and he has done little to distance himself from hate crimes committed in his name. This has led to a former grand wizard of the KKK David Duke to feel comfortable enough to run for the United States senate in his home state of Louisiana, stating “[Trump has] made it OK to talk about these incredible concerns of European Americans today, because I think European Americans know they are the only group that can’t defend their own essential interests and their point of view”. Trump and Duke have had a very public history going back to 1991, although earlier this year in an interview Trump stated “I know nothing about David Duke”. Which he then attempted to backpedal from in subsequent interviews. Given the“wink and nod” relationship that Trump has enjoyed with these secret societies (their votes for his tacit support of their political views), these latest allegations may cause even the most hardline “Trump-eter” to question supporting such a candidate.

*Allegations of Trump’s Pedophilia go as far back as 1994*
For many people Trump’s involvement with underage sexual partners was first brought to their attention in June of this year when a lawsuit filed by a Jane Doe accused the Republican Presidential Nominee of raping her in 1994, when she was only 13. However, in 2011 an article was published outlining the gift of $5000 given to Nevada Senator Harry Reid by the candidate, mere days after Trump’s arrest on suspicion of having sex with anunidentified twelve year old boy in the owner’s suite of Trump’s Las Vegas hotel and casino. Since the publication of this article there have been rumors online about Trump’s relationship with NAMBLA.

Trump’s longtime friend and ally Roger Ailes has recently been forced to step down as the head of Fox News on multiple charges of sexual harassment and sexual misconduct. It does not seem to be a coincidence that these rumors have gained footing in the days following Ailes’ departure. Some argue that without the head of a major network to suppress these rumors more of Trump’s victims may come forward, and confirmation of these rumors may be forthcoming.

*Trump’s alleged financial support of NAMBLA ranges up to millions over the course of decades.*
In July, rumors have been circulating in various political forums, alleging thatTrump has donated varying amounts from hundreds to millions of dollars over the course of years up to decades. Given the temper of the candidate and the violence of his supporters, all parties involved are very careful to state that these are still just rumors at the time of this writing. However, the number of questions and allegations has increased so rapidly in the past several days that a public statement being released that “people are questioning Donald Trump’s ties to NAMBLA. A lot of people are saying that he has donated money to NAMBLA, and that the reason he has not released his tax returns is that they will show tax deductible contributions to it”. The leaders also asked that reporters and curious minds stop contacting them until a determination on the validity of the allegations can be made.

In an uncharacteristic move, Trump’s campaign has refused to either confirm or deny his donations supporting NAMBLA at the time of this writing. Given the candidates history of issuing public statements over much less this has only fueled the rumors. On a popular site where “Trump-eters” discuss policy and the campaign, there are vehement defenses of the candidate, but no denial of the allegations, and questioners frequently find their posts deleted or replied to with personal attacks. This has led more conspiracy minded persons to the theory that Trump staffer’s are actively trying to suppress this rumor. As of the time of this writing, no statement has been issued confirming or denying these allegations.

https://medium.com/@DOdeadswitch/do...american-man-boy-love-cf4ba136688f#.98p5u6b5o

Now i'm not saying he did this, but its a fact that he won't release his tax returns and this would be a very good reason for him not to. It would be disgusting if Donald Trump has funded NAMBLA, and again I'm not saying he has, but he's hiding something in his tax returns and I've heard that this is it from some very smart, trustworthy people. Trump isn't denying it either, you would expect him to deny such a rumor if there was no truth to it. Why isn't Trump denying it?


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## CBU-105

*Full video: Donald Trump rally in Jacksonville






*


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## anon45

A few video clips to show the President we are losing.

Wish we could have him for a 3rd term.





















Senator Obama

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## anon45

Meanwhile here's Trump


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## Desert Fox

*Clinton is the WWIII Candidate*






Clearly mentally unstable.​

07:12 04.08.2016Get short URL
271766112
A Hillary Clinton administration if she is elected will likely maintain a tense relationship with Russia and will pursue policies evocative of the Cold War that will be even more confrontational than those under President Barack Obama, analysts told Sputnik.

WASHINGTON (Sputnik) — A 2014 US-backed coup in Ukraine followed by a referendum, in which Crimea voted overwhelmingly to rejoin Russia, sent Washington-Moscow ties on a downward spiral that continues to feed distrust between the two global powers.

*"If Clinton is elected, there’s going to be some level of continuity with [US President Barack] Obama because they share the same type of worldview and to some degree a similar foreign policy,"* University of Dayton Political Science Professor Daniel Birdsong told Sputnik.

Birdsong explained the mindset as one in which engagement is primarily diplomatic, and if military intervention is involved, a reluctance to deploy US "boots on the ground," a reliance on airpower and the use of local proxies in combat zones.

The approach, he said, is reminiscent of President Bill Clinton’s interventions in the Balkans in the 1990s.





_A former Bernie Sanders delegate wears a Hillary Clinton presidential campaign sticker over his mouth as he protests during the third session at the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, U.S. July 27, 2016.The hawkish image projected by Clinton could be rooted in her being the first female presidential candidate from a major political party, Birdsong explained._​*

"She has to contend with a stereotype of women being weaker on national defense, on military engagement," Birdsong said. "Her taking a muscular stance on foreign policy, or with Russia more specifically, has to do with that."*

Middle Tennessee State University Professor of Political Science and International Relations Andrei Korobkov told Sputnik he expects Clinton to be tougher on Moscow than Obama.

The reason, he explained, is that Clinton’s background and her foreign policy advisors are products of the 20th century standoff between the United States and former Soviet Union.

*"Hillary’s statements during her speech and the parade of persons whom she brought, like [former Secretary of State Madeleine] Albright and a number of others, made it look like she comes not from the 21st century but from the Cold War,"* Korobkov said.

Korobkov was referring to Clinton’s guests at the Democratic National Convention and her acceptance speech, which contained a single reference to Russia.

*"I'm proud to stand by our allies in NATO against any threat they face, including from Russia," *Clinton said in accepting the Democratic Party’s presidential nomination.

Korobkov said he fears that Clinton will push the United States back into a second Cold War.

*"She probably lives mentally in a world that simply doesn’t exist,* *because there is no ideological divide between the Russia and the US, or in general, deep ideological divides in the current political system,”* Korobkov explained.

In contrast, Trump has much more moderate positions on a wide spectrum of issues including NATO, relations with Russia, policies in Syria and the Middle East in general, Korobkov added.

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## Desert Fox

anon45 said:


> A few video clips to show the President we are losing.
> 
> Wish we could have him for a 3rd term.


Indeed! 

*"Hillary Clinton will say anything to get elected and change nothing" - Barak Obama*





​
​


RabzonKhan said:


> But if rallies were really that important, than Bernie Sanders would had won the primaries, one of his largest rally drew almost 28,000 people, but Hillary defeated him with almost 3.8 million popular votes.


Bernie got cheated, everyone knows that.

*Racist Killary*


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## Desert Fox

*Why Obama’s Brother says he’ll be voting for Donald Trump*​
President Obama’s Kenyan half-brother wants to make America great again — so he’s voting for Donald Trump.
*

“I like Donald Trump because he speaks from the heart,” Malik Obama told The Post from his home in the rural village of Kogelo. “Make America Great Again is a great slogan. I would like to meet him.”*

 
Obama, 58, a longtime Democrat, said his “deep disappointment” in his brother Barack’s administration has led him to recently switch allegiance to “the party of Lincoln.”
*
Modal Trigger




Barack Obama is seen with his half-brother, Malik.Photo: AP*
The last straw, he said, came earlier this month when FBI Director James Comey recommended not prosecuting Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton over her use of a private e-mail servers while secretary of state.
*

“She should have known better as the custodian of classified information,” said Obama.

 
He’s also annoyed that Clinton and President Obama killed Libyan leader Moammar Khadafy, whom he called one of his best friends.

 
Malik Obama dedicated his 2012 biography of his late father to Khadafy and others who were “making this world a better place.”

 
“I still feel that getting rid of Khadafy didn’t make things any better in Libya,” he said. “My brother and the secretary of state disappointed me in that regard.”*

 
But what bothers him even more is the Democratic Party’s support of same-sex marriage.
*
 
‘I like Donald Trump because he speaks from the heart. Make America Great Again is a great slogan. I would like to meet him.’  - Malik Obama 

“I feel like a Republican now because they don’t stand for same-sex marriage, and that appeals to me,” he said.

*
Obama believes strongly in the institution of marriage — so strongly that he has at least three current wives, although press reports have put the number as high as 12.
*
*
When asked by The Post how many wives and children he has, Obama demurred.
*
*
“That’s personal,” he said.

 
Obama made headlines in 2011 when he married his third wife, who was still in her teens.
*
 
Obama plans to trek back to the US to vote for Trump in November. Obama used to live in Maryland, where he worked for many years as an accountant and is registered to vote there, public records show.

*
The president’s and Malik’s father, Barack Obama Sr., left Kenya in 1959 when Malik was a year old and his mother was pregnant with his sister Auma. Obama Sr. enrolled at the University of Hawaii, where he met and married the president’s mother, Stanley Ann Dunham. Malik Obama didn’t meet his younger half-brother until 1985. President Obama, 54, has seven half-siblings from both sides of his family.
*
*
Malik Obama, the eldest, is the director of the Barack H. Obama Foundation, a controversial Virginia charity named for his father. He says he started the charity in 2008 because he wanted to make a difference in the family’s hardscrabble village in Kenya.


But the charity came under fire when The Post revealed in 2011 that it was an off-the-books operation that hadn’t registered with the state of Virginia or, as it claimed, had tax-exempt status from the IRS.
*
 
Shortly after The Post report, the IRS gave its stamp of approval, leading to speculation that the president had intervened.

 
Modal Trigger




Malik Obama seen announcing his intention to run for a Kenyan gubernatorial seat.Photo: Getty Images*
But Malik Obama bristles at the suggestion, saying he dug deep to pay for the electrical transformers and college scholarships that the foundation provided in Kogelo. According to its latest tax filing, the nonprofit has just $24,000 in its coffers.
*

Until then, Obama wears his new GOP colors proudly; He even has a “Make America Great Again” hat.

“Mr. Trump is providing something new and something fresh,” he said.
*
​


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## RabzonKhan

Just shows what a liar Trump is:

*Trump's statements were awarded PolitiFact's 2015 Lie of the Year.






*



Desert Fox said:


> Bernie got cheated, everyone knows that.​


Okay, let me ask you once again, HOW?

You never give up do you, if Hillary was really racist, as you want us to believe, than more then 90% Blacks would not have voted for her in the Democratic primaries, or do you think Blacks are stupid?

Rest of your post is useless propaganda, Margaret Sanger was not how you are trying to portray her, otherwise Martin Luther King would not had praised her work.

Cheers!


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## RabzonKhan

That is really, really, really embarrassing. 







*Poll: Trump Now In FOURTH PLACE With Minorities
*
Trump loves “the blacks," “the Hispanics” and “the [insert minority group here],” but they don’t love him.

In a CNN/ORC poll released on Monday, Republican nominee Donald *Trump placed fourth with minorities. Fourth. As in, “*Libertarian” Party candidate Gary Johnson and anti-vaccine pandering queen Green Party candidate Jill Stein both edged out Trump, along with Democrat Hillary Clinton, who cleaned up among minorities.

*Predictably, a majority of non-whites favored Hillary as their choice candidate, earning a whopping 70 percent* of those 1,000 plus Americans polled via telephone survey. Both Johnson and Stein tied with eight percent of minorities, topping the Republican candidate by one percent.

In a PPP survey released on Saturday, *Trump fared even worse among potential black voters, earning favor with only two percent of those polled. Again, both Johnson and Stein surpassed Trump, this time by two percentage points each.*

On Wednesday, Fox News released a poll  with more bad news for Trump: *Hillary tops Trump by 23 points among women (57-34 percent), black Americans by 83 (87-4 percent), and Hispanics by 48 (68-20 percent).*

And no one can forget that mind-blowing NBC/Wall Street Journal poll from mid-July: Stunningly, *Trump was shown to have zero percent support from black Americans *in the electorally vital states of Pennsylvania and Ohio. Zero.

In June, Washington Post polling results indicated that *Trump had a 94 percent unfavorable rating with blacks.*


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> if Hillary was really racist,


I know it must hurt to know your candidate is a racist. Those were her words BTW.

In reality she gives two sh!ts about Muslims or Blacks. *She only needs votes. Once she gets into office, she'll resume killing Muslims and help ISIS spread even more.*

She bombed the daylights out of three Muslim countries (Iraq, Libya, Syria) and supports ruthless African dictators who rape and murder in Congo, South Sudan, Nigeria, etc... As long as they donate to the Clinton foundation.








RabzonKhan said:


> Margaret Sanger was not how you are trying to portray her,



Those were her documented words buddy, not mine. Don't shoot the messenger.


----------



## Desert Fox

Oooh this is going to hurt Crooked Hillary 

*Trump calls Hillary Clinton 'founder of ISIS,’ crowd cheers ‘lock her up’ *​



Published time: 4 Aug, 2016 08:26


Donald Trump said Wednesday *Hillary Clinton “should get an award” from Islamists for founding Islamic State*, claiming *her policies as secretary of state precipitated the group’s formation*. Trump’s supporters were quick to nod a “lock her up.”

_[Islamic State or IS, formerly] ISIS take this position,_” the Republican presidential nominee said during an election rally in Daytona Beach, Florida. He drew a list of flaws in US policy in Libya and the Middle East, laying all the blame on his opponent, Clinton.

*“It was Hillary Clinton that… she should get an award from them as the founder of ISIS. That’s what it was. Her weakness. Her weak policies,”* the New York mogul stressed, with the crowd then responding with “_Lock her up! Lock her up!_”

*IS, founded by Sunni cleric Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, started out as a hardline Islamist militant group during the mayhem of the Syrian civil war, which started in 2011. At the time, from 2009 to 2013, Clinton was serving as secretary of state during President Barack Obama’s first term and was responsible for the department that conducted US foreign policy.*

It’s not the first time the controversial Republican has come up with nicknames and titles for his Democratic rival. In fact, his entire campaign has been partly built on goading Clinton. For instance, it’s been months that he’s been addressing her as “crooked Hillary.”

“_Wouldn't that be embarrassing to lose to crooked Hillary Clinton? That would be terrible,_” he said Wednesday. While at a rally on Monday he flat-out nominated Clinton as “_the Devil_” while criticizing Bernie Sanders' decision to side with Clinton during the National convention.

“He made a deal with the Devil — she's the Devil,” Trump blurted out.

During his address in Florida, Donald Trump seemed to be following the motto of “_attack is the best form of defense._” Apart from poking at his Democratic opponent, he lashed out at the US president.

“_We have a president who is frankly incompetent […] We’ve been humiliated by President Obama and his policies,_” he said.

“_I should play Obama for the presidency,” _he said._ “I’ll do it. Then I’d be assured of winning, OK?_”

Trump also refuted all speculations about splits in the Republican Party.

“_The campaign is doing really well […] I would say right now it's the best we've been in terms of being united,_” he insisted.


----------



## anon45

Desert Fox said:


> Oooh this is going to hurt Crooked Hillary
> 
> *Trump calls Hillary Clinton 'founder of ISIS,’ crowd cheers ‘lock her up’ *​
> View attachment 323531​
> Published time: 4 Aug, 2016 08:26
> 
> 
> Donald Trump said Wednesday *Hillary Clinton “should get an award” from Islamists for founding Islamic State*, claiming *her policies as secretary of state precipitated the group’s formation*. Trump’s supporters were quick to nod a “lock her up.”
> 
> _[Islamic State or IS, formerly] ISIS take this position,_” the Republican presidential nominee said during an election rally in Daytona Beach, Florida. He drew a list of flaws in US policy in Libya and the Middle East, laying all the blame on his opponent, Clinton.
> 
> *“It was Hillary Clinton that… she should get an award from them as the founder of ISIS. That’s what it was. Her weakness. Her weak policies,”* the New York mogul stressed, with the crowd then responding with “_Lock her up! Lock her up!_”
> 
> *IS, founded by Sunni cleric Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, started out as a hardline Islamist militant group during the mayhem of the Syrian civil war, which started in 2011. At the time, from 2009 to 2013, Clinton was serving as secretary of state during President Barack Obama’s first term and was responsible for the department that conducted US foreign policy.*
> 
> It’s not the first time the controversial Republican has come up with nicknames and titles for his Democratic rival. In fact, his entire campaign has been partly built on goading Clinton. For instance, it’s been months that he’s been addressing her as “crooked Hillary.”
> 
> “_Wouldn't that be embarrassing to lose to crooked Hillary Clinton? That would be terrible,_” he said Wednesday. While at a rally on Monday he flat-out nominated Clinton as “_the Devil_” while criticizing Bernie Sanders' decision to side with Clinton during the National convention.
> 
> “He made a deal with the Devil — she's the Devil,” Trump blurted out.
> 
> During his address in Florida, Donald Trump seemed to be following the motto of “_attack is the best form of defense._” Apart from poking at his Democratic opponent, he lashed out at the US president.
> 
> “_We have a president who is frankly incompetent […] We’ve been humiliated by President Obama and his policies,_” he said.
> 
> “_I should play Obama for the presidency,” _he said._ “I’ll do it. Then I’d be assured of winning, OK?_”
> 
> Trump also refuted all speculations about splits in the Republican Party.
> 
> “_The campaign is doing really well […] I would say right now it's the best we've been in terms of being united,_” he insisted.



rofl she wont be hurt by anything trump says, and trump is imploding.


Trump admits he didn't see nonexistent Iran money video


http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/trump-admits-wrong-iran-money-video-226706


*AJC poll: Hillary Clinton has slim lead over Donald Trump in Georgia*

http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2016/0...n-has-slim-lead-over-donald-trump-in-georgia/

*Economy added 255,000 jobs in July*
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/economy-added-255-000-jobs-in-july-226713


*Donald Trump's support collapses in 3 of the most important major battlegrounds*
http://uk.businessinsider.com/donal...vania-new-hampshire-michigan-2016-8?r=US&IR=T

*Election Update: Trump’s Slump Deepens In The Polls*
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-trumps-slump-deepens-in-polls/


*Trump will leave a lasting stain on Republicans*
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...e7fb02-5a7f-11e6-831d-0324760ca856_story.html

*In endorsing Clinton, ex-CIA chief says Putin made Trump his ‘unwitting agent’*
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ef-says-putin-made-trump-his-unwitting-agent/

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## Desert Fox

anon45 said:


>


Sure, let's quote Obama 










​


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## CBU-105

crooked hillary just took obviously fixed softball questions from a small group of latino journos, more a propaganda exercise than a real grilling press conference the kind Trump hosts.


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## Anubis

Desert Fox said:


> Sure, let's quote Obama
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 323552
> 
> ​


Hilary doesn't need to change anything...she just has to continue in Obama's path...so his statement still stands.



anon45 said:


> rofl she wont be hurt by anything trump says, and trump is imploding.
> 
> 
> Trump admits he didn't see nonexistent Iran money video
> 
> 
> http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/trump-admits-wrong-iran-money-video-226706
> 
> 
> *AJC poll: Hillary Clinton has slim lead over Donald Trump in Georgia*
> 
> http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2016/0...n-has-slim-lead-over-donald-trump-in-georgia/
> 
> *Economy added 255,000 jobs in July*
> http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/economy-added-255-000-jobs-in-july-226713
> 
> 
> *Donald Trump's support collapses in 3 of the most important major battlegrounds*
> http://uk.businessinsider.com/donal...vania-new-hampshire-michigan-2016-8?r=US&IR=T
> 
> *Election Update: Trump’s Slump Deepens In The Polls*
> http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-trumps-slump-deepens-in-polls/
> 
> 
> *Trump will leave a lasting stain on Republicans*
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...e7fb02-5a7f-11e6-831d-0324760ca856_story.html
> 
> *In endorsing Clinton, ex-CIA chief says Putin made Trump his ‘unwitting agent’*
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ef-says-putin-made-trump-his-unwitting-agent/



Trump said that the NFL sent him a letter to make sure their schedule doesn't clash with the debate.....NFL denied sending any letter to Trump....he pulls an awful lot of stuff from his ***.

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## Desert Fox

Anubis said:


> Hilary doesn't need to change



You're right, she needs to keep bombing Muslim countries, continue taking donations from terror sponsoring Arab states, and give classified national secrets away to foreign powers:


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## pakdefender

Conspiracy Theory : Trump is actually trying to lose, he was an implant to make the Republican party fall


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## Anubis

Desert Fox said:


> You're right, she needs to keep bombing Muslim countries, continue taking donations from terror sponsoring Arab states, and *give classified national secrets away to foreign powers*:


I am not sure where she did that...bombing muslim countries and being in business with Arab states has been a trend with most if not all modern American administrations...Trump does business in the middle east too and has connections to many wealthy terror sponsoring Arab sheikhs. THese two things are not a disqualifying factor for a presidential nominee.


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## RepublicOk

* Clinton doubles down on disputed claim FBI found her email remarks 'truthful'* 

Hillary Clinton has doubled down on her assertion that the FBI declared her public remarks on her email scandal “consistent and truthful,” despite independent fact-checkers concluding otherwise.

“And as the FBI said, everything that I’ve said publicly has been consistent and truthful with what I’ve told [the FBI],” Clinton said Wednesday in an interview with Brandon Rittiman of KUSA News .

Washington Post fact-checker Glenn Kessler swiftly chided the Democratic presidential candidate for repeating the "roundly debunked" claim.

Clinton first cited the FBI in her defense last Sunday when “Fox News Sunday” host Chris Wallace noted Director James Comey had contradicted her claim she never sent classified material from her home server.

“That's not what I heard Director Comey say … Director Comey said that my answers were truthful and what I've said is consistent with what I have told the American people, that there were decisions discussed and made to classify retroactively certain of the emails,” she said.
Several fact-checkers, however, called her out on that claim.

The Washington Post's Kessler awarded her “four Pinnochios,” and noted, “Comey has repeatedly not taken a stand on her public statements.”

PolitiFact gave her a “Pants on Fire” rating for a lack of truthfulness and FactCheck.org declared her claims “false.”

Comey did tell Congress: “We have no basis to conclude she lied to the FBI.” But he did not say the same about her public statements.

During testimony before a House committee, Comey said it was “not true” that nothing Clinton sent or received was marked classified. To the contrary, he said, “there was classified material emailed.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...aim-fbi-found-her-email-remarks-truthful.html

Pathological liar at it again.


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## Desert Fox

Anubis said:


> I am not sure where she did that...bombing muslim countries and being in business with Arab states has been a trend with most if not all modern American administrations...Trump does business in the middle east too and has connections to many wealthy terror sponsoring Arab sheikhs. THese two things are not a disqualifying factor for a presidential nominee.



So when was the last time Trump received $100,000,000 in donations from Gulf Arabs??

Nor has Trump compromised highly classified information.

Nor has Trump bombed or killed innocent people and then bragged about it.


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## anon45

Desert Fox said:


> So when was the last time Trump received $100,000,000 in donations from Gulf Arabs??
> 
> Nor has Trump compromised highly classified information.
> 
> Nor has Trump bombed or killed innocent people and then bragged about it.
> 
> View attachment 323592



Ah are the first 3 referring to this book?

Bill Clinton's former lover Dolly Kyle claims the Clinton couple regularly used racial epithets in her new book, Hillary: The Other Woman

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...claims-Bill-s-former-lover.html#ixzz4GVHmYvMH


Sounds like a legit source. /s

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## RabzonKhan

*






Election Update: Trump’s Slump Deepens In The Polls*

By Nate Silver

There’s no longer any doubt that the party conventions have shifted the presidential election substantially toward Hillary Clinton. She received a larger bounce from her convention than Donald Trump got from his, but Trump has continued to poll so poorly in state and national surveys over the past two days that his problems may be getting worse.

The recent Fox News, Marist College and NBC News/Wall Street Journal national polls show Trump *trailing Clinton by 9 to 14 percentage points, *margins that would make for the largest general election blowout since 1984 if they held. Clinton’s numbers in those polls are on the high end of what we’ve seen lately — Marist, for instance, has generally had a Clinton-leaninghouse effect in its polls this year. By contrast, a series of polls released earlier in the week generally put Clinton’s advantage at 5 to 8 percentage points.

The new polls are noteworthy, however, because they postdate the earlier surveys — Marist’s poll was conducted Monday through Wednesday, for instance. That opens up the possibility that the spiral of negative stories for Trump, such as his criticism of the family of a Muslim-American soldier killed in action and his renewed feud with GOP leadership, are deepening his problems above and beyond Clinton’s convention bounce. Not only have Clinton’s numbers risen since the Democratic National Convention, butTrump’s numbers have fallen back into the mid- to high 30s in polls that include third-party candidates. And Trump’s favorability ratings, following modest improvement after his convention, are now about as bad as they’ve ever been.

*Meanwhile, polls of Michigan, Pennsylvania and New Hampshire — three swing states with demographics that, in theory, could be friendly to Trump — showed Clinton with leads of 9 percentage points, 11 points and 15 points, respectively. Read more*


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## Anubis

Desert Fox said:


> So when was the last time Trump received $100,000,000 in donations from Gulf Arabs??
> 
> Nor has Trump compromised highly classified information.
> 
> Nor has Trump bombed or killed innocent people and then bragged about it.
> 
> View attachment 323592


When was the last time Katy Perry did all of these things? Is she qualified to be POTUS then? You are comparing apples and oranges. Would you elect Bradd Pitt as the PM of Pakistan? Because if you compare his records to any other Paksitani politician he has done less harm.


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## Devil Soul

*Clinton widens lead over Trump to 8 points: poll*
Home / World / Clinton widens lead over Trump to 8 points: poll
By AFP
August 07, 2016
Latest : World

6
0







WASHINGTON: Democrat Hillary Clinton has widened her lead over White House rival Donald Trump to eight points after both parties´ nominating conventions, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll out Sunday.

Clinton led Trump 50 to 42 percent among registered voters, according to the telephone survey carried out August 1-4.

She got a strong bounce in the support from her nomination -- which unlike the fractious Republican convention, showed a united party -- but has also benefitted from major gaffes by Trump.

Ahead of the nominating conventions Clinton had a four-point lead over Trump, according to an Post-ABC News survey.

Among likely voters, Clinton´s lead is 51 to 44 percent, and in a race that includes Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson and Jill Stein from the Green Party, Clinton leads Trump 45-37 percent, with Johnson at eight percent and Stein at four percent.

Clinton and her running mate, Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, received the nomination to run for the November 8 presidential election during the July 25-28 Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Trump and his vice presidential candidate, Indiana Governor Mike Pence, were nominated in the July 18-21 Republican National Convention in Cleveland, Ohio.
Trump has been struggling after a string of gaffes.

These include urging Russia to find and release emails that disappeared from Clinton´s private server that she used as secretary of state, though he later said that he was being sarcastic.

He also denigrated the family of a Muslim-American soldier killed in the Iraq war, to the horror of veterans and their supporters.

Satisfaction with both candidates remains low: nearly 6 in 10 registered voters said that they are unhappy with both Clinton and Trump as major party candidates.

Barring campaign or news developments, the next opportunity for the candidates to shift their poll numbers comes in the three presidential debates, scheduled for late September and October.

Seeking to arrest his sinking poll numbers, Trump reversed course Friday and endorsed House Speaker Paul Ryan for re-election, pleaded for Republican unity and pledged to work with the very party leaders he had earlier dismissed as Washington´s ineffective establishment figures.

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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/762000226811011072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/762017792921051136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/762003451584745472


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## RabzonKhan

I don’t agree with everything Shulman said, but I completely agree with him that Donald Trump must be defeated. As I have said several time on this thread that he is a security threat to our country, this election is not about Democrat versus Republican, but how to save our country from this madman.









*Op-Ed:* *I’m a Republican and I don't like Hillary Clinton — but I’m voting for her*

By David Shulman 8/8/2016

If Donald Trump had flamed out of the primaries as almost everyone expected, I would have proudly voted for Marco Rubio, John Kasich or Jeb Bush, and would have supported Scott Walker or Chris Christie. *But compared with these candidates, Donald Trump lives on another planet. Simply put, he is not a Republican nor a conservative as we have understood those terms for decades.*

*Instead, I will vote for Hillary Clinton in November. *I will do this knowing full well that she has more baggage than United Airlines and that she would nominate Supreme Court justices that would do violence to the 1st, 2nd and 5th Amendments to the Constitution. She flat-out lied about her home-brew server and the classified information on it, thereby imperiling national security. I recognize that she is owned in fee-simple by one of the most reactionary groups in the United States, the public employee unions. Further, I assume that the SVR, the foreign intelligence service of the Russian Federation, will cause to be released documents showing a very unsavory connection between Clinton’s actions as secretary of State and the Clinton Foundation.

*Despite these serious flaws, Clinton believes in America and its values. Trump — who would establish religious tests for immigration and ethnic tests for judges — does not. She is open to the world; Trump is not.*

*Trump believes in only himself. As Khizr Kahn, the Muslim father of a slain U.S. Army captain noted at the Democratic Convention: Trump has “sacrificed nothing.”*

And if we ever see the contents of Trump’s tax returns, I believe they will demonstrate that he is not as rich as he says he is, has given only a pittance to charity and has played the IRS like an aria. The media should consider boycotting Trump events until he releases his tax returns, like every modern candidate for the presidency. Why do they let him get away with it?

*I’ve argued before that we are in the process of reliving the 1930s. Russian expansionism in the Ukraine is analogous to Hitler’s moves in central Europe, and the rise of antisemitism in Europe today also has a parallel to that dark era. Trump, for his part, echoes the proto-fascist America First movement championed by Charles Lindbergh. He wants to close off America from the rest of the world.*

*But unlike the America Firsters, Trump’s blathering about international affairs seems rooted in ignorance rather than ideology. He quite simply doesn’t have a clue about foreign policy. He has no advisors of stature, military or diplomatic — no one who can rein in his “bromance” with Russian leader Vladimir Putin or explain to him why we must honor our commitments to NATO.*

*In contrast, Clinton is a tough-minded foreign policy realist who understands the dangers we face in Putinism and Islamist radicalism.*

You can believe — as I do — that Clinton has a problem with the truth, but must also acknowledge — as I must — that in that regard she doesn’t hold a candle to Trump’s prevarications. Simply put, as the old adage goes, “How can you tell when Trump is lying? Answer: When he is moving his lips.” You really can’t predict what he will say from one day to the next, or if he will say the same thing again the following day. He is an unstable egomaniac who is unfit for public office, any office.

We Republicans brought Trump on ourselves. The congressional leadership, K Street lobbyists and public policy intellectuals (save a few) only talked to themselves. They had no clue as to what was going on out in the country and lost touch with the party’s working-class base. Instead of the tony restaurants of D.C., I suggest they visit the fast-food joints and bars of the Midwest, the South and California’s Central Valley. Simply put, a whole lot of soul-searching is ahead of us.

David Shulman is the senior economist at the UCLA Anderson Forecast.


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## RabzonKhan

Yet another very important Republican supports Hillary. I’m just loving it!

Note, people who think America is anti-Muslim, please read the part that I have highlighted in blue. 
*
Reagan Republican: Trump is the emperor with no clothes*

By Frank Lavin August 8, 2016

Frank Lavin, an official in every GOP administration since Reagan, says he'll vote for Hillary Clinton

Frank Lavin is the CEO of Export Now, a company that helps U.S. brands sell online in China. The opinions expressed in this commentary are his.






I had the honor of serving as Ronald Reagan's White House political director from 1987 to 1989, so I can claim some insight on U.S. politics. My central conclusion on the 2016 race: It might not be entirely clear that Hillary Clinton deserves to win the presidency, *but it is thunderingly clear that Donald Trump deserves to lose.*

*From this premise, I will do something that I have not done in 40 years of voting: I will vote for the Democratic nominee for president. The depressing truth of the Republican nominee is that Donald Trump talks a great game but he is the emperor who wears no clothes.*

*Trump falls short in terms of the character and behavior needed to perform as president. This defect is crippling and ensures he would fail in office. Trump is a bigot, a bully, and devoid of grace or magnanimity. *His thin-skinned belligerence toward every challenge, rebuke, or criticism would promise the nation a series of a high-voltage quarrels. His casual dishonesty, his policy laziness, and his lack of self-awareness would mean four years of a careening pin-ball journey that would ricochet from missteps to crisis to misunderstandings to clarifications to retractions.

*This decision is not an easy one. I proudly served in every Republican administration over the past 40 years: Ambassador and Undersecretary for George W. Bush, Commerce Department official for George H. W. Bush, and several White House and State Department assignments for Ronald Reagan beyond the political director role.*

I have seen presidents work with difficult people and difficult issues. It requires a blend of strategic vision and tactical flexibility, combined with optimism and good humor. A president needs the thick skin to ignore criticism and the management discipline to stay fixed on goals. Trump, on the other hand, manages to pick fights that are unrelated to his goals.

*The most pronounced example in this regard was his tasteless criticism of the family of deceased Army Capt. Humayun Khan. We owe that young man our gratitude for the ultimate sacrifice. And we owe his parents our respect for the dignity with which they reproached Mr. Trump for his grotesqueries.*

Less poignant is a part of the Trump story that ought to have particular resonance with Republicans: his four business bankruptcies, more than a trivial matter for a party that prides itself on thrift, sound money, and prudential management.

*The bankruptcies reflect a man who either lacks reasonable business judgment or reasonable business ethics. By themselves, four bankruptcies are pretty bad. But four bankruptcies and a private jet is deplorable. How can everyone lose money in the collapse of a project yet Trump flies away again and again?*

In the early days of my startup, there was a moment when I could have shut the firm, declared bankruptcy, and walked away from my obligations, but I have employees, investors, clients, and customers -- all of whom rely on my commitment. I have a moral obligation to stand by people who are standing by me. No wonder so many Americans are skeptical of market economics if the system can be so easily manipulated by Trump.

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, one bankruptcy may be regarded as a misfortune, but four begins to look like carelessness. We can suppose that Trump has every legal right to declare bankruptcies and to walk away with millions. And voters have every legal right to vote against him for those actions.

*There are many issues on which Hillary Clinton and I are not in agreement. However on the core foreign policy issues our country faces -- alliance relationships, security commitments, and international engagement -- she comes closer to Republican views than does Trump. And Donald Trump makes me cringe. I am voting for Hillary. And I vote in Ohio.*




The madman is going down the drain fast, his own party men are abandoning him in droves. 

*Fresh batch of Republicans defect to Clinton*

By Nolan D. McCaskill 08/08/16

A former aide of President George W. Bush undercut Donald Trump’s economic address before it even began Monday, leading the latest batch of Republican defections by casting Hillary Clinton as the best candidate to grow the economy.

*“Our nation faces a unique set of challenges that require steady and experienced leadership. That is why today I am personally supporting Hillary Clinton,” Lezlee Westine said in a statement to The Washington Post.*

Westine, who served as the White House’s director of public liaison and deputy assistant to the president in the Bush administration, is part of the latest contingent of Republicans to cross party lines to back Clinton.

*“She has the expertise and commitment to American values to grow the economy, create jobs and protect America at home and abroad,” Westine added.*

*Westine is joined by former Michigan Gov. William Milliken, who suggested a vote for Trump would be a choice to “embark on a path that has doomed other governments and nations throughout history.”*

“I am saddened and dismayed that the Republican Party this year has nominated a candidate who has repeatedly demonstrated that he does not embrace those ideals,” Milliken said in a statement, according to the Detroit Free Press. “Because I feel so strongly about our nation's future, I will be joining the growing list of former and present government officials in casting my vote for Hillary Clinton for president in 2016.”

*Former New Hampshire Sen. Gordon Humphrey said he would cast his ballot for Clinton if she were “neck and neck” with Trump in his state. But Trump, he said, is a “defective nominee” who is “deranged” and whose “psyche is sick,” and the Republican National Committee should replace him as the nominee.*

“It would be the height of irresponsibility to give him the powers of the presidency. It would be an act of recklessness to give him the office of commander in chief,” he told MSNBC on Monday. “This needs to be said, and there’s a growing census in agreement that Donald Trump is mentally unfit to be president of the United States. And the RNC on that account, this week or next, should revoke the nomination and choose a candidate who is experienced, but at the same time, of mental soundness.”




More good news, what a wonderful day! 

*50 Republican National Security Officials Eviscerate Trump In Open Letter*

*Trump “would be the most reckless President in American history,” they write.*

*Christina Wilkie 08/08/2016*

Dozens of the Republican Party’s most experienced national security officials will not vote for GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump, they wrote in an open letter released Monday.

“We are convinced that [Trump] would be a dangerous President and would put at risk our country’s national security and well-being,” said the former officials, many of whom held top positions in the George W. Bush administration.

“Most fundamentally, Mr. Trump lacks the character, values, and experience to be President,” they added. “He weakens U.S. moral authority as the leader of the free world. He appears to lack basic knowledge about and belief in the U.S. Constitution, U.S. laws, and U.S. institutions, including religious tolerance, freedom of the press, and an independent judiciary.”

*Signers include some of the best known intelligence, defense and security experts of the past two decades: Michael V. Hayden, the former director of both the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency; Michael Chertoff and Tom Ridge, both of whom served as secretaries of Homeland Security during the Bush administration; Dov Zakheim, a former under secretary of defense; John D. Negroponte, a deputy secretary of state and a former director of national intelligence; Eric Edelman, a top national security adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney; and Robert Zoellick, a former deputy secretary of state, United States trade rep and president of the World Bank.*

The letter, which was first reported on by The New York Times, represents yet another blow to Trump’s ongoing effort to win over top Republicans. That job that has become significantly more difficult in recent weeks, as Trump has feuded with the family of a fallen soldier and threatened repeatedly to abandon NATO.

The missive also raises questions about who might agree to serve in a hypothetical Trump administration and offer the former reality TV star advice on national security issues. 

Trump has repeatedly sought to distance himself from some of the most controversial policies of the Bush administration, such as the war in Iraq, which Trump claims he opposed in 2003. Even so, it’s safe to assume that Trump’s campaign would have welcomed support from top members of the national security apparatus.

The Trump campaign did not respond to a request for comment about the letter. 

In closing, the 50 officials wrote, “We are convinced that in the Oval Office, he would be the most reckless President in American history.”

Read the entire letter below. *Link*


----------



## RabzonKhan

More bad news for Donnie, one more Senator from the important state of Maine gave Donnie the middle finger (excuse my French).

*
GOP senator Susan Collins: Why I cannot support Trump

By Susan Collins August 8 2016
*
_The writer, a Republican, represents Maine in the Senate._

I will not be voting for Donald Trump for president. This is not a decision I make lightly, for I am a lifelong Republican. But Donald Trump does not reflect historical Republican values nor the inclusive approach to governing that is critical to healing the divisions in our country.

When the primary season started, it soon became apparent that, much like Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), Mr. Trump was connecting with many Americans who felt that their voices were not being heard in Washington and who were tired of political correctness. But rejecting the conventions of political correctness is different from showing complete disregard for common decency. Mr. Trump did not stop with shedding the stilted campaign dialogue that often frustrates voters. *Instead, he opted for a constant stream of denigrating comments, including demeaning Sen. John McCain’s (R-Ariz.) heroic military service and repeatedly insulting Fox News host Megyn Kelly.*

With the passage of time, I have become increasingly dismayed by his constant stream of cruel comments and his inability to admit error or apologize. But it was his attacks directed at people who could not respond on an equal footing — either because they do not share his power or stature or because professional responsibility precluded them from engaging at such a level — *that revealed Mr. Trump as unworthy of being our president.*

My conclusion about Mr. Trump’s unsuitability for office is based on his disregard for the precept of treating others with respect, an idea that should transcend politics. Instead, he opts to mock the vulnerable and inflame prejudices by attacking ethnic and religious minorities. *Three incidents in particular have led me to the inescapable conclusion that Mr. Trump lacks the temperament, self-discipline and judgment required to be president.*

*The first was his mocking of a reporter with disabilities, a shocking display that did not receive the scrutiny it deserved.* I kept expecting Mr. Trump to apologize, at least privately, but he did not, instead denying that he had done what seemed undeniable to anyone who watched the video. At the time, I hoped that this was a terrible lapse, not a pattern of abuse.

*The second was Mr. Trump’s repeated insistence that Gonzalo Curiel, a federal judge born and raised in Indiana, could not rule fairly in a case involving Trump University because of his Mexican heritage. *For Mr. Trump to insist that Judge Curiel would be biased because of his ethnicity demonstrated a profound lack of respect not only for the judge but also for our constitutional separation of powers, the very foundation of our form of government. Again, I waited in vain for Mr. Trump to retract his words.

*Third was Donald Trump’s criticism of the grieving parents of Army Capt. Humayun Khan, who was killed in Iraq. It is inconceivable that anyone, much less a presidential candidate, would attack two Gold Star parents. Rather than honoring their sacrifice and recognizing their pain, Mr. Trump disparaged the religion of the family of an American hero. And once again, he proved incapable of apologizing, of saying he was wrong.*

*I am also deeply concerned that Mr. Trump’s lack of self-restraint and his barrage of ill-informed comments would make an already perilous world even more so. It is reckless for a presidential candidate to publicly raise doubts about honoring treaty commitments with our allies. Mr. Trump’s tendency to lash out when challenged further escalates the possibility of disputes spinning dangerously out of control.* *Read more*


----------



## RabzonKhan

Another wonderful day, just loving it! 

*
Clinton scores major GOP donor from Trump*

*Former MGM CEO says Trump is unfit and, as a conservative, Clinton is his choice.*

By Alex Isenstadt 08/09/16

Hillary Clinton on Tuesday added another name to the rapidly growing list of major Republican donors she has taken away from GOP nominee Donald Trump -- former MGM CEO Harry Sloan.

Sloan is a mainstay of Republican fundraising, having served on national finance committees for John McCain and Mitt Romney. As the 2016 election got underway, he signed on with John Kasich.

*But in a statement, Sloan said he could not support Trump, who he contended, “does not embody the values that have made me a lifelong Republican. He is unprepared and temperamentally unfit to be our President. Most of my Republican friends feel the same way. As a businessman, a father, and a conservative it is clear to me that Hillary Clinton is the right choice in this election."*

Sloan, who serves on the board of trustees of the McCain Institute, a think tank founded by Arizona Sen. John McCain, adds that “if we had a different Republican presidential candidate this year, I would likely be proudly supporting them."

Sloan’s support for the Democratic nominee isn’t entirely new. On June 30, he cut a $33,400 check to a Clinton joint fundraising account, according to federal campaign finance records. *Read more*



*Former GOP EPA heads endorse Clinton: Trump ‘would set the world back decades’*

By Nolan D. McCaskill 08/09/16

Donald Trump would threaten the environmental legacy of presidents Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon and George H.W. Bush, according to two former Environmental Protection Agency chiefs from their administrations.

“Republicans have a long history of support for the environment dating back to Theodore Roosevelt. Donald Trump threatens to destroy that legacy of respect for the environment and protection of public health,” William D. Ruckelshaus and William K. Reilly said in a statement endorsing Hillary Clinton’s campaign Tuesday.

*Ruckelshaus served as EPA administrator under Reagan and Nixon, while Reilly served under Bush. The pair touted the administrations they worked under for their environmental efforts, but called Trump clueless on the matter.*

*“Donald Trump has shown a profound ignorance of science and of the public health issues embodied in our environmental laws,” they said. “He hasn’t a clue about Republicans’ historic contributions to science-driven environmental policy.”*

They also blasted Trump for suggesting that climate change "is a hoax," noting that they view it as “the singular health and environmental threat to the world today.” *Read more*






*Poll: Hillary Clinton Dominates Donald Trump in Silicon Valley

By Melissa Hartman/ 20 hours ago
*
With the November presidential election approaching, Silicon Valley’s most influential employers are in favor of electing Hillary Clinton by a landslide, according to a new poll.

Late last month, the Silicon Valley Leadership Group (SVLG) conducted a poll of 1,200 of its members and tossed in a question about who they were likely to support for president. The poll concluded July 28, the same day the Democratic National Convention ended.

*Clinton, the Democratic nominee, secured 58 percent of the votes from SVLG members, while Republican nominee Donald Trump secured 21 percent.* Fifteen percent voted neither or other, and 6 percent voted no opinion. Eighty-one percent of Democrats said they supported Clinton, a paltry 5 percent for Trump, 9 percent for neither or other and 4 percent for no opinion.

*Trump failed to secure 46 percent of his own party members in the Silicon Valley poll, with 18 percent selecting Clinton,* 22 percent selecting neither or other and 6 percent selecting no opinion.

*Silicon Valley’s independents are also on Clinton’s side, according to the poll, which had a reported a margin of error of 2.8 percent. Fifty-two percent said they were going with Clinton to 21 percent for Trump*; 17 percent polled for neither or other and 10 percent had no opinion. *Read more*


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## CBU-105

Trump rally in Wilmington, NC


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## RabzonKhan

The madman strikes again, now he wants his followers to kill Hillary.

Once again he proves he is not presidential material the guy is crazy as hell. 







*Secret Service spoke to Trump campaign about 2nd Amendment comment*

By Tami Luhby and Jim Sciutto, CNN 8/10/2016


(CNN)A US Secret Service official confirms to CNN that the USSS has spoken to the Trump campaign regarding his Second Amendment comments.

"There has been more than one conversation" on the topic, the official told CNN.
The campaign told USSS Donald Trump did not intend to incite violence.

"No such meeting or conversation ever happened," Trump tweeted in response to CNN's report.
The controversy erupted on Tuesday afternoon when Trump said at a rally that Second Amendment defenders might be able to stop Clinton from appointing justices to the Supreme Court who could weaken gun rights.

*"Hillary wants to abolish -- essentially abolish the Second Amendment. By the way, if she gets to pick, if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don't know," Trump said. "But I tell you what, that will be a horrible day, if Hillary gets to put her judges in, right now we're tied."*

The Secret Service's communications director Cathy Milhoan has not confirmed the conversations between the campaign and the Secret Service, but said in a statement Tuesday that "the U.S. Secret Service is aware of Mr. Trump's comments."
Trump said Tuesday evening that he was simply trying to unify gun owners against Clinton in the voting booth.

"This is a political movement. This is a strong political movement, the Second Amendment," Trump said to Fox News' Sean Hannity. "And there can be no other interpretation ... I mean, give me a break."

*Clinton responded Wednesday to Trump's suggestion at an Iowa rally, saying, "words matter."
"Words matter my friends, and if you are running to be president or you are president of the United States, words can have tremendous consequences," Clinton said. "Yesterday we witnessed the latest in a long line of casual comments from Donald Trump that cross the line."*


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## CBU-105

amazing Trump rally in Ft Lauderdale, FL


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## CorporateAffairs

Trump will simple decimate Hillary in the polls.
Rest all is CNN - Clinton News Network fake propaganda.


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## Nilgiri

Sky lord said:


> You're for trump?



Yes, that is the level of frustration I have with the same old republican-democrat bureaucrat clans.

US has to decide whether it wants to continue the same current slow decline or whether it can weather the turbulence from people that actually want to change its course drastically (Trump and to some degree Sanders).

They (Democrats) managed to successfully rig it against Sanders (hoping that they don't alienate all his supporters)....whereas Republicans could not do the same successfully against Trump (though they did try).

If you actually listen to Trump directly rather than what the crooked media feeds people, you will see that he is a lot better than Hillary.

Same goes for the polls, they are distorting the way they collect the data to try dissuade people that are leaning towards trump (but have not commited yet), people that are severely undercounted in the polling methods (given they are often written off as unlikely voters).

Its time the US has a non-politician at the helm. One that wants other countries to pay their dues in defense, reducing the burden on US and also pushing for better security and trade relations.....rather than continuing the excesses of welfare + taxation (democrats) and unneccessary expensive conflicts (traditional republicans like bush).


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## RabzonKhan

*88 days left until election day.*

More bad news for the madman, he is a total loser can’t even unite his own party. I’m loving it!



*Dozens of Republicans to urge RNC to cut off funds for Trump*

*The open letter pushes the RNC to shift resources to Senate and House races.*

By Anna Palmer 08/11/16

More than 70 Republicans have signed an open letter to Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus urging him to stop spending any money to help Donald Trump win in November and shift those contributions to Senate and House races.

The letter comes as a number of Republican senators and high-profile GOP national security officials have come forward saying they cannot vote for Trump.

“We believe that Donald Trump’s divisiveness, recklessness, incompetence, and record-breaking unpopularity risk turning this election into a Democratic landslide, and only the immediate shift of all available RNC resources to vulnerable Senate and House races will prevent the GOP from drowning with a Trump-emblazoned anchor around its neck,” states a draft of the letter obtained by POLITICO. “This should not be a difficult decision, as Donald Trump’s chances of being elected president are evaporating by the day.”

Former Sen. Gordon Humphrey of New Hampshire and former Reps. Chris Shays of Connecticut, Tom Coleman of Missouri and Vin Weber of Minnesota are among the Republicans lending their name to the letter. Close to 20 of the co-signers are former RNC staffers, including Mindy Finn (former RNC chief digital strategist), Christine Iverson Gunderson (former RNC press secretary), Virginia Hume Onufer (former RNC deputy press secretary), Beth Miller (former RNC field communications division director), Heather Layman (former deputy press secretary), B. Jay Cooper (former RNC communications director under four chairmen) and Patrick Ruffini (former RNC ecampaign director). *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

CorporateAffairs said:


> Trump will simple decimate Hillary in the polls.
> Rest all is CNN - Clinton News Network fake propaganda.


Trump did not have any problem with the polls when he was winning, but now he’s losing badly so he is coming up with all kinds of lame excuses.

And it’s not only CNN, but every poll is showing Trump is losing badly.

Huffpost is tracking almost 274 polls from 40 pollsters since last year. Check this link out and see for yourself.



*Currently tracking 274 polls from 40 pollsters*


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## RepublicOk

Clinton related death count continues... 






Shawn Lucas- Sued DNC for rigging has died under mysterious circumstances. 

http://heatst.com/politics/death-of-dnc-staffer-shawn-lucas-adds-to-seth-rich-conspiracy-theories/


And Julian Assange just revealed Seth Conrad Rich was his source for the DNC emails.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...affer-was-email-leaker-offers-20k-reward-info

He worked for the Democratic National Committee. He was shot and killed as he walked home early Sunday in the Bloomingdale neighborhood of Northwest Washington, D.C.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Desert Fox said:


> Indeed!
> 
> *"Hillary Clinton will say anything to get elected and change nothing" - Barak Obama*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> ​
> 
> Bernie got cheated, everyone knows that.
> 
> *Racist Killary*
> 
> View attachment 323346
> 
> 
> View attachment 323347
> 
> 
> View attachment 323349​



This is the proof that America is still ruled by the WASP elites.

The myth that "the Zionist Jews rules over America" has been automatically debunked. Nor the US has any true love for Israel, but a pawn to serve for their own geopolitical interests in the Middle East.

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## Sky lord

Nilgiri said:


> Yes, that is the level of frustration I have with the same old republican-democrat bureaucrat clans.
> 
> US has to decide whether it wants to continue the same current slow decline or whether it can weather the turbulence from people that actually want to change its course drastically (Trump and to some degree Sanders).
> 
> They (Democrats) managed to successfully rig it against Sanders (hoping that they don't alienate all his supporters)....whereas Republicans could not do the same successfully against Trump (though they did try).
> 
> If you actually listen to Trump directly rather than what the crooked media feeds people, you will see that he is a lot better than Hillary.
> 
> Same goes for the polls, they are distorting the way they collect the data to try dissuade people that are leaning towards trump (but have not commited yet), people that are severely undercounted in the polling methods (given they are often written off as unlikely voters).
> 
> Its time the US has a non-politician at the helm. One that wants other countries to pay their dues in defense, reducing the burden on US and also pushing for better security and trade relations.....rather than continuing the excesses of welfare + taxation (democrats) and unneccessary expensive conflicts (traditional republicans like bush).


Dude, I have to come back to this as I am a little caught up in stuff today ...but....just wanted to say...

I have listened to Trump directly...the guy is entertaining and if that is what we want from the president of the most important country in the world then Trump is a great choice....but it is a more serious job than that. 

What are his ideas? To build a wall with Mexico and make Mexicans pay for it? Even if that were possible why would you humiliate a neighbor like that? 

To force allies to pay more to NATO? 
...can you imagine what would happen if Japan re militarized ? 

To make "terrific deals". ...why no details? 

America is still the most healthy growing developed economy, only reason for relative decline is because other poorer countries are growing faster...surely that is a good thing for the world. Trump cannot stop growth in China or India whatever he does. 

I believe he asked Kasich to be VP and said he could be "in charge of foreign and domestic policy"....what would Trump do? ...answer "make America great again!" 

He asked his security advisors three times why if a country has nuclear weapons "why can't we use them if we have them". How can you trust the guy with the nuclear codes? 

I don't think he himself expected to be the nominee. Now he's there he doesn't have a clue what to do! 

I am tired of political correctness too...but this is not the way to go...at the least Americans deserve a president who can speak grammatical English! 

Gotta go now...talk later


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## Nilgiri

Sky lord said:


> To build a wall with Mexico and make Mexicans pay for it? Even if that were possible why would you humiliate a neighbor like that?



Same reason why we fence the border with Bangladesh. You either have a country or you don't. Open borders only work when you have equally developed populations.



Sky lord said:


> To force allies to pay more to NATO?
> ...can you imagine what would happen if Japan re militarized ?



Its not forcing, its about making others pitch in their fair share. US pays something like 80 - 90% of NATO logistics...when it should be at most around 50%.

Japan is militarized enough, explain what you mean by "re-militarizing"?



Sky lord said:


> To make "terrific deals". ...why no details?



You can read the details in the campaign website.

The speeches wont have much details, same goes for Hillary. There is only so much you can portray in general.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/us-china-trade-reform

His one main speech where he spelled out some details:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/full-transcript-trump-job-plan-speech-224891



Sky lord said:


> America is still the most healthy growing developed economy, only reason for relative decline is because other poorer countries are growing faster...surely that is a good thing for the world.



Healthy growing? Even during the best growth years during the 90s, it was very top heavy growth (rich getting richer). Real median wage has stagnated since the Vietnam War ended....that is not healthy at all....the main reason being too much govt consumption/transfer in a country where the system naturally is made for free private enterprise to succeed.

The sheer economic inertia of the US carried it through this till about the year 2000...then the war on terror (esp iraq) was what set it over the edge into a slow decline into the abyss. Obama "change" turned out to be the same ole democrat version of a fiscal hole... more red tape, welfare, taxes and greater bureaucracy and govt control. This will continue under Clinton. No thanks.



Sky lord said:


> Trump cannot stop growth in China or India whatever he does.



Where has he said he wants to stop them? He wants a fair deal in engaging both, especially China the serial currency manipulator.



Sky lord said:


> I believe he asked Kasich to be VP and said he could be "in charge of foreign and domestic policy"....what would Trump do? ...answer "make America great again!"



Kasich is low energy and frankly annoying. I'm glad Trump went with the classy Pence.



Sky lord said:


> He asked his security advisors three times why if a country has nuclear weapons "why can't we use them if we have them". How can you trust the guy with the nuclear codes?



Again it has been laundered, dry cleaned and laundered again by the media before it gets to you the concerned average joe.

The more serious question is can we trust the established criminal Clinton who set up a private server at her house just so she could prevent certain emails from ever coming under the RTI act to shield her dubious activities with regards to the Clinton foundation (I urge you to investigate all of these independently and without bias).

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## CBU-105

Full Event: Donald Trump Rally in Kissimmee, Florida


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## CorporateAffairs

Few f them are trying hard to rig trump and his campaign.
But he will have the last laugh.


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## RabzonKhan

Battleground states bloodbath, Hillary not only leads Trump in all battleground states, but is even threatening to turn red states like Arizona and Georgia into blue states. 








....................................*Hillary...vs..Trump* 

Colorado, .....................45.2..................34.8

Florida,..........................45.4……….......40.6

Iowa,..............................40.8……………40.2

Michigan,.......................42.6……….......33.8

Nevada,.........................44……………....42

New Hampshire,........... 43…..................39.2

North Carolina,..............44.4…................40.4

Ohio,..............................43.8……… ........41.8

Pennsylvania,................48.2…….............39.2

Virginia,.........................44.4……..............37.4

Wisconsin,.....................45.6….................36.6

*1. Source*
2. *Source*


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## Sky lord

Nilgiri said:


> Same reason why we fence the border with Bangladesh. You either have a country or you don't. Open borders only work when you have equally developed populations.



Net immigration from Mexico is ZERO.

Of course Immigration from further south is there. These folk do jobs that Americans don't want to do. They work in abattoirs and picking tomatoes and cleaning houses. They send their kids to college. This is not a trouble making minority...if all Latinos were sent back tomorrow there would be a huge problem in the US economy....do you really see Anericans black or poor whites picking tomatoes when they can easily just go on welfare? There are much better and more humane ways of curbing illegal immigration.



Nilgiri said:


> Healthy growing? Even during the best growth years during the 90s, it was very top heavy growth (rich getting richer). Real median wage has stagnated since the Vietnam War ended....that is not healthy at all....the main reason being too much govt consumption/transfer in a country where the system naturally is made for free private enterprise to succeed.
> 
> The sheer economic inertia of the US carried it through this till about the year 2000...then the war on terror (esp iraq) was what set it over the edge into a slow decline into the abyss. Obama "change" turned out to be the same ole democrat version of a fiscal hole... more red tape, welfare, taxes and greater bureaucracy and govt control. This will continue under Clinton. No thanks.



Real median wage has stagnated more due to technology and globalization than anything else. The differential between equally qualified workers in the first world and the third world is marrowing and will continue to narrow.



Nilgiri said:


> Again it has been laundered, dry cleaned and laundered again by the media before it gets to you the concerned average joe.



Seriously? What was the Bengazi hearings then if not a witch hunt on Hilary by FOX news.

The DNC emails were hacked by Putin....if An enemy country Russia wants Trump in the White House then surely that is enough to vote the other way, didn't we feel that wY when Hafiz Saeed endorsed Burka Dutt...for me that was end of story as far as she was concerned.

It is a serious matter that Russia is interfering in the US elections.



Nilgiri said:


> I'm glad Trump went with the classy Pence



Annoying is not a factor...mental stability is. 

I'll take annoying but sane any day over entertaining but insane.

I don't want to go the WW2 route with Japan ever again. 

They are the most martial race on earth, don't encourage aggressiveness or we will all live to regret it.


----------



## Nilgiri

Sky lord said:


> Net immigration from Mexico is ZERO.
> 
> Of course Immigration from further south is there. These folk do jobs that Americans don't want to do. They work in abattoirs and picking tomatoes and cleaning houses. They send their kids to college. This is not a trouble making minority...if all Latinos were sent back tomorrow there would be a huge problem in the US economy....do you really see Anericans black or poor whites picking tomatoes when they can easily just go on welfare? There are much better and more humane ways of curbing illegal immigration.



The issue is not net legal immigration. The issue is illegal immigration and the components of the people in this illegal immigration.

Illegal immigration stems from Mexico along with the other Central American Countries through Mexico. It is NOT only the latter, Mexico has plenty of desperately poor areas that generate lots of illegal immigrants trying to get into the US.

The Mexican govt recognises this and even shamelessly indulges in supporting it:

http://cdn.freedomainradio.com/FDR_3310_Mexico_Is_Sending.pdf








Sky lord said:


> Real median wage has stagnated more due to technology and globalization than anything else. The differential between equally qualified workers in the first world and the third world is marrowing and will continue to narrow.



Its part of the reason, but it has been exacerbated severely by sustained govt consumption and transfer creating massive fiscal strain (the future unfunded liabilities should be more than enough to convince anyone that looks at it without bias) that also extracts massive amounts from productive activity....severely curtailing the level to which private enterprise at all levels can reinvest and expand which will help the real wage.

All because its much more politically correct and popular to make it look like govt programs actually result in achieving their aims.....when in fact govt is a massive inefficient leech that is mostly in the business of burning money and creating self-perpetuating economic environments of vested interests and productivity absorption.



Sky lord said:


> Seriously? What was the Bengazi hearings then if not a witch hunt on Hilary by FOX news.










Sky lord said:


> The DNC emails were hacked by Putin....if An enemy country Russia wants Trump in the White House then surely that is enough to vote the other way, didn't we feel that wY when Hafiz Saeed endorsed Burka Dutt...for me that was end of story as far as she was concerned.
> 
> It is a serious matter that Russia is interfering in the US elections.



The bigger issue is that they clearly showed how the DNC rigged the system against the non-Hillary candidate. 

The democrat party attacked the hackings, tried to connect it to trump....but were unable to deny the material of the emails (forcing several high level resignations).

That is going to bite them pretty badly come election time from the bernie crowd (who are angered and frustrated enough already).

Putin couldn't care less who wins the election, he will work with both of them. But he definitely wants to see Hillary knocked down a few pegs wherever possible...since its harder to do with Trump and the RNC since Trump beat the rigging from that end anyway and Trump does not have a long history of dirty politics like Hillary does (clinton foundation, emailgate and many other things).

Putin is just hedging and gaining diplo-cred where possible. His hackers most definitely have the full emails that hillary "deleted" from her private server....and he is probably blackmailing her right now....or will soon do so at some more opportune time. With Trump he has next to nothing...other than a fresh start and new beginning. Either way works for him....but Clinton and the traitorous democrats that have propped and shielded her are a terrible choice for the US.



Sky lord said:


> Annoying is not a factor...mental stability is.
> 
> I'll take annoying but sane any day over entertaining but insane.



Genuinely insane people tend to do pretty badly at business.

I would take the unpredictable guy over the established crooked and corrupt person anytime. At least theres a chance for change....and there is enough checks and balances to keep the legitimate boundaries in play anyway.



Sky lord said:


> I don't want to go the WW2 route with Japan ever again.
> 
> They are the most martial race on earth, don't encourage aggressiveness or we will all live to regret it.



China seems to be the much larger instigator in East Asia. Japan is being more responsive after showing caution and patience for how long now? 

And how is Hillary going to help smooth anything there between the two anyway? Japan is simply becoming more assertive with or without the US because of China's actions. Its pretty much a non-issue as far as Trump and Hillary are concerned....and more of a what will china do in the long term.

If Japan gets nukes because of Trump coming to power (by getting Japan to take a greater share of its defence burden)...thats a good thing because it will kill the chance of a war actually happening in the area.

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## Sky lord

Nilgiri said:


> The issue is not net legal immigration. The issue is illegal immigration and the components of the people in this illegal immigration.
> 
> Illegal immigration stems from Mexico along with the other Central American Countries through Mexico. It is NOT only the latter, Mexico has plenty of desperately poor areas that generate lots of illegal immigrants trying to get into the US.
> 
> The Mexican govt recognises this and even shamelessly indulges in supporting it:
> 
> http://cdn.freedomainradio.com/FDR_3310_Mexico_Is_Sending.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Its part of the reason, but it has been exacerbated severely by sustained govt consumption and transfer creating massive fiscal strain (the future unfunded liabilities should be more than enough to convince anyone that looks at it without bias) that also extracts massive amounts from productive activity....severely curtailing the level to which private enterprise at all levels can reinvest and expand which will help the real wage.
> 
> All because its much more politically correct and popular to make it look like govt programs actually result in achieving their aims.....when in fact govt is a massive inefficient leech that is mostly in the business of burning money and creating self-perpetuating economic environments of vested interests and productivity absorption.
> 
> 
> 
> The bigger issue is that they clearly showed how the DNC rigged the system against the non-Hillary candidate.
> 
> The democrat party attacked the hackings, tried to connect it to trump....but were unable to deny the material of the emails (forcing several high level resignations).
> 
> That is going to bite them pretty badly come election time from the bernie crowd (who are angered and frustrated enough already).
> 
> Putin couldn't care less who wins the election, he will work with both of them. But he definitely wants to see Hillary knocked down a few pegs wherever possible...since its harder to do with Trump and the RNC since Trump beat the rigging from that end anyway and Trump does not have a long history of dirty politics like Hillary does (clinton foundation, emailgate and many other things).
> 
> Putin is just hedging and gaining diplo-cred where possible. His hackers most definitely have the full emails that hillary "deleted" from her private server....and he is probably blackmailing her right now....or will soon do so at some more opportune time. With Trump he has next to nothing...other than a fresh start and new beginning. Either way works for him....but Clinton and the traitorous democrats that have propped and shielded her are a terrible choice for the US.
> 
> 
> 
> Genuinely insane people tend to do pretty badly at business.
> 
> I would take the unpredictable guy over the established crooked and corrupt person anytime. At least theres a chance for change....and there is enough checks and balances to keep the legitimate boundaries in play anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> China seems to be the much larger instigator in East Asia. Japan is being more responsive after showing caution and patience for how long now?
> 
> And how is Hillary going to help smooth anything there between the two anyway? Japan is simply becoming more assertive with or without the US because of China's actions. Its pretty much a non-issue as far as Trump and Hillary are concerned....and more of a what will china do in the long term.
> 
> If Japan gets nukes because of Trump coming to power (by getting Japan to take a greater share of its defence burden)...thats a good thing because it will kill the chance of a war actually happening in the area.



Nigiri - if this guy was as misunderstood as you say he is then why these stampede?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...p-gop-stampede-begins/?utm_term=.10ddd8fcc67e


The former CIA chief has come out against trump and claimed him to be a security risk.

Dozens of republicans are asking the RNC to cut of funds for trump. More than 70 republicans are pledging "never trump"

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/republicans-urge-rnc-cut-funds-trump-226918

For heavens sake the National Review , the most conservative of conservatives has come out against Trump!


This is his own side...with friends like this who needs enemies! These are people who understand the world better than any of us here and they do not trust the leader of their own party. Even the speaker of the house had to be talked into supporting trump. It is unprecedented. Truly unheard of in modern times. 

I assume your argument is going to be that he is an "outsider" etc....but all these people put their own seats at risk. Remember Obama was the ultimate outsider.

Oh yes...that reminds me about trump and the birther movement ...what nonsense...he promised that "his people are uncovering amazing things in Hawai". ....what amazing thing did he uncover? ..the little liar!

I am not a leftist by any stretch of imagination, but this guy has gone too far.

The republicans began their downfall when they made their "agreement" with the religious right . You cannot pander to people who genuinely believe that human beings and dinosaurs existed at the same time and expect anything good to come of it!

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## Nilgiri

Sky lord said:


> For heavens sake the National Review , the most conservative of conservatives has come out against Trump!



Trump really gets the goat of many traditional conservatives.

After all he came out hard against the Iraq war that dubya did...and dubya, mccain etc...are people you should not criticize for the trad-cons to support you.

Trump is pretty much an independent campaigning under the republican banner. He will alienate a lot of the traditional support base but gain a lot of new supporters.

He hopes it will balance out in his favour come election time since the trad-cons know they have to vote anyway to get the right supreme court justice appointed.

Trump is hoping he will gain more new supporters to more than replace the ones he loses in the swing states.

Guess we will have to wait and see.

I am pretty sure whatever the result is, there will be a huge change in the political dynamics of the US and we may see both the republican and democrat parties rupturing in some way to create some newer equations.

Trump and Sanders definitely started something here, I am certain of it.

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## Anubis

Nilgiri said:


> Trump really gets the goat of many traditional conservatives.
> 
> After all he came out hard against the Iraq war that dubya did...and dubya, mccain etc...are people you should not criticize for the trad-cons to support you.
> 
> Trump is pretty much an independent campaigning under the republican banner. He will alienate a lot of the traditional support base but gain a lot of *new supporters.*
> 
> He hopes it will balance out in his favour come election time since the trad-cons know they have to vote anyway to get the right supreme court justice appointed.
> 
> Trump is hoping he will gain more new supporters to more than replace the ones he loses in the swing states.
> 
> Guess we will have to wait and see.
> 
> I am pretty sure whatever the result is, there will be a huge change in the political dynamics of the US and we may see both the republican and democrat parties rupturing in some way to create some newer equations.
> 
> Trump and Sanders definitely started something here, I am certain of it.


Where are they gonna come from? The type of people who would vote for Trump already voted republican....he isn't going to get any democrats on his side no matter how much they hate hilary....we are gonna see really low turnout this year.


----------



## Nilgiri

Anubis said:


> Where are they gonna come from? The type of people who would vote for Trump already voted republican....he isn't going to get any democrats on his side no matter how much they hate hilary....we are gonna see really low turnout this year.



They will have to come from the undecided/unlikely voters that most polls are writing off.

If its flops, he loses, its quite simple.

We will have a better idea once the first couple debates are done.


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## MilSpec

Nilgiri said:


> They will have to come from the undecided/unlikely voters that most polls are writing off.
> 
> If its flops, he loses, its quite simple.
> 
> We will have a better idea once the first couple debates are done.


Hillary will destroy Trump when it comes to debates, the only damage to Clinton campaign might come from wikileaks. 

Trump could have capitalized from the situation only if he kept his mouth shut, but he an absolute retard.

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## Anubis

MilSpec said:


> Hillary will destroy Trump when it comes to debates, the only damage to Clinton campaign might come from wikileaks.
> 
> Trump could have capitalized from the situation only if he kept his mouth shut, but he an absolute retard.


I have a gut feeling Trump is not gonna attend all the debates...he's gonna turn em down for some stupid reason.


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## MilSpec

Anubis said:


> I have a gut feeling Trump is not gonna attend all the debates...he's gonna turn em down for some stupid reason.


If he does, it will make for some good last week tonight, late show and daily show episodes.

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## Nilgiri

MilSpec said:


> Hillary will destroy Trump when it comes to debates, the only damage to Clinton campaign might come from wikileaks.
> 
> Trump could have capitalized from the situation only if he kept his mouth shut, but he an absolute retard.



Doubt it. Trump is going to expose how she targetted Bill Clinton's sexual assault victims right in front of her....among other things that will seriously make her sweat that no one has done before.

Its going to get quite personal (Trump is not going to be politically correct like an establishment politician would be)....and we all know how Clinton reacts when there is even a hint of her losing any part of her desperately crafted image over decades.

It should be quite entertaining, just sit back and watch.

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## CBU-105

*FULL Event: Donald Trump Holds HUGE Rally in Erie, PA *


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## RabzonKhan

Long, but worth the read. No political gimmick purely an in depth analysis.

Note, Nate Silver is widely considered the polling guru.

Warning: fellows there are still 86 days before the elections, so no one should jump from the roof…Yet. 


*What A Clinton Landslide Would Look Like*

By Nate Silver
Filed under 2016 Election






We’re going to spend a lot of time over the next 87 days contemplating the possibility of a Donald Trump presidency. Trump is a significant underdog — he has a 13 percent chance of winning the election according to our polls-only model and a 23 percent chance according to polls-plus. But those probabilities aren’t that small. For comparison, you have a 17 percent chance of losing a “game” of Russian roulette.

But there’s another possibility staring us right in the face: A potential Hillary Clinton landslide. Our polls-only model projects Clinton to win the election by 7.7 percentage points, about the same margin by which Barack Obama beat John McCain in 2008. And it assigns a 35 percent chance to Clinton winning by double digits.

Our other model, polls-plus, is much more conservative about Clinton’s prospects. If this were an ordinary election, the smart money would be on the race tightening down the stretch run, and coming more into line with economic “fundamentals” that suggest the election ought to be close. Since this is how the polls-plus model “thinks,” it projects Clinton to win by around 4 points, about the margin by which Obama beat Mitt Romney in 2012 — a solid victory but a long way from a landslide.

But the theory behind “fundamentals” models is that economic conditions prevail because most other factors are fought to a draw. In a normal presidential election, both candidates raise essentially unlimited money and staff their campaigns with hundreds of experienced professionals. In a normal presidential election, both candidates are good representatives of their party’s traditional values and therefore unite almost all their party’s voters behind them. In a normal presidential election, both candidates have years of experience running for office and deftly pivot away from controversies to exploit their opponents’ weaknesses. In a normal presidential election, both candidates target a broad enough range of demographic groups to have a viable chance of reaching 51 percent of the vote. This may not be a normal presidential election because while most of those things are true for Clinton, it’s not clear that any of them apply to Trump.

A related theory is that contemporary presidential elections are bound to be relatively close because both parties have high floors on their support. Indeed, we’ve gone seven straight elections without a double-digit popular vote victory (the last one was Ronald Reagan’s in 1984), the longest such streak since 1876-1900.


As with other theories of this kind, however, there’s the risk of mistaking what’s happened in the recent past for some sort of iron law of politics. Historically, the U.S. has ebbed and flowed between periods of close presidential elections — such in the late 19th century or early 21st century — and eras in which there were plenty of lopsided ones (every election in the 1920s and 1930s was a blowout).

These patterns seem to have some relationship with partisanship, with highly partisan epochs tending to produce close elections by guaranteeing each party its fair share of support. Trump’s nomination, however, reflects profound disarray within the Republican Party. *Furthermore, about 30 percent of Republican or Republican-leaning voters have an unfavorable view of Trump. How many of them will vote for Clinton is hard to say, but parties facing this much internal strife, such as Republicans in 1964 or Democrats in 1972 or 1980, have often suffered landslide losses.*

Perhaps the strongest evidence for a _potential_ landslide against Trump is in the state-by-state polling, which has shown him underperforming in any number of traditionally Republican states. It’s not just Georgia and Arizona, where polls have shown a fairly close race all year. At various points, polls have shown Clinton drawing within a few percentage points of Trump — and occasionally even leading him — in states such as Utah, South Carolina, Texas, Alaska, Kansas and even Mississippi.

Just how bad could it get? Let’s start by giving Clinton the 332 electoral votes that Obama won in 2012. That’s obviously _not_ a safe assumption: The race could shift back toward Trump, and even if it doesn’t, Clinton could lose states such as Iowa or Nevada, where her polling has been middling even after her convention bounce. But as I said, we’re going to focus on Clinton’s upside case today.

So I’m going to list the states Romney won in order of how easy it is for Clinton to flip them, according to our polls-only model.1 The number in parentheses by each state represents the point at which the model estimates it would flip to Clinton, based on her lead in the national popular vote. For instance, South Carolina (+9.5) means that Clinton would be favored in South Carolina if she leads by at least 9.5 percentage points nationally, but not by less than that. These projections are based on where the model has each state projected currently, along with each state’s elasticity score, a measure of how responsive it is to changes in the national environment. Here goes:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/contributors/nate-silver/
North Carolina (+3.2): It wouldn’t be any surprise if Clinton carried North Carolina, which Obama narrowly won in 2008. But Obama lost North Carolina in 2012 despite winning by about 4 percentage points nationally. This year, it looks like Clinton would win North Carolina with a 3 percentage point national victory. In other words, North Carolina has drifted slightly bluer relative to the rest of the country and is closer to being a true tipping-point state this year.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/contributors/nate-silver/
Arizona (+7.1): Arizona and Georgia have been flickering between light blue and light red in our polls-only projection recently. That’s because the model figures each state would be a tossup with Clinton ahead by about 7 points nationally, and that’s where the forecast has been for the past few days. Arizona is the fourth-most-Hispanic state after New Mexico, Texas and California, although historically its Hispanic population has voted at relatively low rates. A strong Hispanic turnout, perhaps coupled with gains for Clinton among Mormon voters (about 6 percent of Arizona’s electorate), might swing the state to her.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/contributors/nate-silver/
Nebraska’s 2nd Congressional District (+7.1): Nebraska and Maine award one electoral vote to the winner of each congressional district. That came in handy for Obama in 2008, when he won Nebraska’s 2nd Congressional district, which consists of Omaha and most of its suburbs. District boundaries were redrawn after the 2010 Census to make them slightly tougher for Democrats, but Omaha’s highly-educated demographics — we estimate that 47 percent of voters in the district have a college degree, comparable to Virginia or Connecticut — could wind up being favorable to Clinton. There’s been no polling in the district yet, so its position on this list is based on the model’s guesses based on its demographics and voting history.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/contributors/nate-silver/
Georgia (+7.2): In some ways, Georgia might be more promising than Arizona for Democrats’ long-term future. It has more electoral votes — 16 to Arizona’s 11 — and could serve as part of a bloc of states (along with Virginia and North Carolina) that could eventually offset losses for Democrats in the Rust Belt. It’s easy enough to see how Georgia’s demographics are favorable for Clinton: It has a substantial black population, but also an increasingly well-educated white population, with lots of migration from the Midwest and the Northeast.

Let’s pause here to see what the map would look like if Clinton wins by 8 percentage points nationally — close to where her lead in the polls has been over the past week or so. This map you see below is worth 375 electoral votes, close to the 365 electoral votes Obama won in 2008 when he beat McCain by 7.3 percentage points. In fact, the map is identical to 2008 but for three changes: Georgia and Arizona turn blue, while Indiana (which surprisingly went for Obama in 2008) remains red:




But let’s say Clinton continues to build her lead, instead of Trump rebounding. Which dominoes might fall next?

South Carolina (+9.5): Public Policy Polling caused a big stir on Thursday when it published a poll showing Clinton down just 2 percentage points in South Carolina — but the result shouldn’t have been all that shocking. South Carolina was only a couple of points redder than Georgia in 2012 and 2008, so if Georgia has moved to being a tie, you’d expect South Carolina to follow just a half-step behind it. True, South Carolina doesn’t have a metropolis like Atlanta, but a relatively high percentage of white voters there have college degrees.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/contributors/nate-silver/
Missouri (+10.3): It’s surprising to see Missouri, once considered a bellwether state, so far down this list. Bill Clinton won it twice, and Obama came within 4,000 votes of winning it in 2008. But now we estimate that Hillary Clinton would need to win by about 10 points nationally to claim the state. Note, however, that the recent polling in Missouri has been mixed, with polls showing everything from a 10-point lead for Trump to a slight edge for Clinton.

There’s something of a gap after South Carolina and Missouri before the next set of states. Thus, Trump might be able to hold Clinton below 400 electoral votes even if she won by 12 points nationally:


But after that, the floodgates would really open, with lots of traditionally red states in all parts of the country potentially turning toward Clinton:

Mississippi (+12.3): I’m skeptical about this one, since Mississippi presents something of a modelling challenge. You can see why it’s an attractive target for Democrats, in theory: It has the highest share of black voters in the country (after the District of Columbia). But in 2008, only 11 percent of Mississippi’s white population voted for Obama. Clinton trailed Trump by just 3 percentage points in the only poll of Mississippi, taken in March. In that poll, Clinton got 20 percent of the white vote. If she can replicate that on Election Day, the outcome could be close.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/contributors/nate-silver/
Indiana (+13.2): Obama’s win in Indiana in 2008 — one of just two timesDemocrats have won the state since 1940 — might be hard to duplicate. He benefited that year from investing in the ground game in a state that is usually ignored, and from Indiana’s connections with Chicago. Plus, Indiana Gov. Mike Pence is Trump’s running mate. Still, if Clinton stretches her national lead into the teens, Indiana could be competitive.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/contributors/nate-silver/
Texas (+13.8): Democrats have long talked about turning Texas blue — or at least purple — but the truth is they haven’t come anywhere close. Obama lost Texas by 12 points in 2008 despite his near-landslide margin nationally, for instance. But Clinton has a number of factors that could work in her favor. We estimate that about somewhere between 37 and 40 percent of Texas’s electorate will be Hispanic, black, Asian-American or Native American, depending on turnout. A high proportion of its white population has college degrees. And Trump has run afoul of locally popular politicians, such as Ted Cruz and George W. Bush. Previous polls of Texas had shown Trump with only a mid-single digit lead there, although a more recent survey had him up by 11.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/contributors/nate-silver/
Montana (+14.1): Obama also nearly won Montana in 2008, losing by just 2 percentage points. But Montana is historically an anti-establishment state, and Trump led Clinton in the only poll we can find — which, granted, was way back in November 2015 — by 21 percentage points. A winning scenario for Clinton would probably involve Libertarian Gary Johnson getting a substantial portion of the vote: Montana was Johnson’s second-best state, after New Mexico, in 2012.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/contributors/nate-silver/
Utah (+14.2): People are fascinated by Clinton’s prospects of winning in Utah, which went for Romney by 48 points in 2012. But it’s hard to say just how realistic those are. The polls-only model has Clinton just a couple of percentage points behind in the polling average in Utah, but its demographic model projects her to lose it by 16 points — a lot better than 2012, but not particularly close. As with Mississippi, therefore, the odds you assign to Clinton in Utah are highly sensitive to your choice of assumptions. She’s taking her chances seriously enough to make some efforts to campaign there, but is it a wild goose chase — like when Dick Cheney visited Hawaii in 2004 — or part of long-term plan to swing Mormons into the Democratic Party?
http://fivethirtyeight.com/contributors/nate-silver/
South Dakota (+14.9): Less excitingly, Clinton could win South Dakota in the event of a national rout, as the state seems to have become the slightly bluer of the two Dakotas after North Dakota’s oil boom. Perhaps South Dakota has a soft spot for Clinton, having voted for her in the Democratic primary in both 2008 and 2016, when Obama and Bernie Sanders won almost all the surrounding states.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/contributors/nate-silver/
Kansas (+15.6): Polls have had Kansas surprisingly close — with onesurvey in June even having Clinton ahead. One can squint and make an argument for it: Kansas is relatively well-educated, and Republican Gov. Sam Brownback is extremely unpopular. But note that Kansas polls badly overstated Republicans’ problems in 2014, when both Brownback and Sen. Pat Roberts won re-election.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/contributors/nate-silver/
Alaska (+15.7): I doubt that Alaskans have much affection for Clinton, but the state is idiosyncratic enough that I don’t really know what they think of Trump, who lost to Cruz in the state’s Republican caucuses. As in Montana, a Clinton win would probably depend on Johnson sucking up a lot of Trump’s vote. Clinton trailed by just 5 percentage points in the only poll of Alaska in January, which didn’t include Johnson as an option.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/contributors/nate-silver/
Nebraska’s 1st Congressional District (+15.8): As goes Omaha, so goes Lincoln? Here’s what the map might look like if Clinton won by 16 percentage points nationally, along with all the states we’ve mentioned so far:



That would work out to 471 electoral votes, to 67 for Trump, which would be fairly typical for a win of that magnitude. Dwight D. Eisenhower won 457 electoral votes when beating Adlai Stevenson by 15 points in 1956, for example. And Franklin D. Roosevelt won 472 electoral votes in 1932, in an 18-point win against Herbert Hoover. Clinton would be a ways short of Ronald Reagan’s 525 electoral votes in 1984, however.

All right, let’s stop there. I’m trying to encourage you to keep an open mind. The way the polls-only model thinks about things, Clinton is ahead by 7 or 8 percentage points now, and the error in the forecast is symmetrical, meaning that she’s as likely to win by 14 or 16 points as she is to lose the popular vote to Trump. There have even been a couple of national polls that showed Clinton with a lead in the mid-teens. But my powers of imagination are limited. Other than losing North Dakota to go along with South Dakota, or perhaps the statewide electoral votes in Nebraska to go along with the congressional district ones, it’s hard for me to envision Trump doing any worse than this — unless he really does shoot someone on 5th Avenue. Link
http://fivethirtyeight.com/contributors/nate-silver/
*

*


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## RabzonKhan

Utah is another red state that in November can end up as a blue state. Loving it!


*Senator Bob Bennett's son, Jim, leaves Republican party because of Trump*

by Cimaron Neugebauer 8/12/2016

(KUTV) A Utah businessman and longtime Republican is leaving the party based on its presidential nominee Donald Trump.

Jim Bennett, son of the late Utah Senator Bob Bennett told MSNBC on Friday he has switched his voter registration from Republican to independent due to the fact that the GOP no longer represents him. The party as a whole has changed in a bad way since Trump began his presidential run, he said.

“The Republican Party that was near and dear to my heart for most of my adult life bears very little or no resemblance to the party of Trump,” Bennett said, whose father served as a U.S. Senator for 18 years as a Republican.

(KUTV) A Utah businessman and longtime Republican is leaving the party based on its presidential nominee Donald Trump.

Jim Bennett, son of the late Utah Senator Bob Bennett told MSNBC on Friday he has switched his voter registration from Republican to independent due to the fact that the GOP no longer represents him. The party as a whole has changed in a bad way since Trump began his presidential run, he said.

“The Republican Party that was near and dear to my heart for most of my adult life bears very little or no resemblance to the party of Trump,” Bennett said, whose father served as a U.S. Senator for 18 years as a Republican.




*Bennett said earlier this year that his father spent time before he died in May apologizing to Muslims for Trump’s comments.*

As a Mormon, Bennett said Trump has a struggle trying to win over the Mormon Utah population, which is around 60 percent. It’s a demographic that consistently has been known for voting Republican but are now hesitant to support the GOP nominee. Mitt Romney has been one of Trump’s prominent critics.

This isn’t anything new for Trump though. He acknowledged that he has “a tremendous problem” winning over Utah voters on Thursday, calling the Beehive state, “a different place” while talking to conservative pastors in Florida.

*Recent polls have indicated that Hillary Clinton is close to possibly winning over Trump in the longtime red state. Link*


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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> Note, Nate Silver is widely considered the polling guru.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...lver_trump_has_about_5_chance_of_winning.html

some guru 

there is no shortage of anti Trump material in the press these days, he probably has thousands of negative articles out daily but it just shows that they are scared silly. He hasn't spent anything on adds so far, this race is far from over, in fact it is only just beginning.

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## RabzonKhan

Nilgiri said:


> The bigger issue is that they clearly showed how the DNC rigged the system against the non-Hillary candidate.


What rigging are you referring to can you specify?



> That is going to bite them pretty badly come election time from the bernie crowd (who are angered and frustrated enough already).


Maybe you missed it, since the Democratic convention, (when our enemies tried to intervene in our elections) several polls have shown that more than 90% of Bernie Sanders supporters will vote for Hillary.



Nilgiri said:


> Trump really gets the goat of many traditional conservatives.
> 
> After all he came out hard against the Iraq war that dubya did...and dubya, mccain etc...are people you should not criticize for the trad-cons to support you.


Actually, he supported the war in the beginning and only a year later started to criticize it.



CBU-105 said:


> http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...lver_trump_has_about_5_chance_of_winning.html
> 
> some guru
> 
> there is no shortage of anti Trump material in the press these days, he probably has thousands of negative articles out daily but it just shows that they are scared silly. He hasn't spent anything on adds so far, this race is far from over, in fact it is only just beginning.


He is a guru not a God, those were his opinion, not the data from his polling analysis program that he has developed and is well respected for.

And nobody is claiming the race is over, but it’s not going to be easy for Trump to put his house in order, that’s for sure.


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## Falcon29

Establishment(Democrats, 'Republicans', 'Independents' ie scammers) kill their own:

*Was A DNC Staffer Murdered In A Politically Motivated Hit? Wikileaks Founder Won’t Confirm Or Deny*

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...o-have-been-my-source-for-dnc-emails-n2203815
.............

@MilSpec

I thought you were pro-Trump, did you change your mind because of me? 





Anubis said:


> I have a gut feeling Trump is not gonna attend all the debates...he's gonna turn em down for some stupid reason.



He should turn them down, they're a waste of time. He also shouldn't negotiate with them at all, ransack the whole Congress, do a purge on state department, Pentagon, everything, clean this country from this crooked, tyrannical establishment. I hope if he gets elected, the first thing he does is manufacture a coup, then use it as excuse to purge the government and replace it with American first folks.

The Congress will not cooperate with the President or the American people, they only push forward their neocon agenda. It needs to be ransacked , all Congressmen need to be harassed and humiliated. This country has become so lame, it's such a lame tyrannical joke of a government, entertainment industry and news industry also controlled by the crooked establishment, that push our children into lame practices(Drugs, alcohol, fun fun fun fun blah) to keep them distracted from the real issues. Our youth have become a total joke.

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## RabzonKhan

Falcon29 said:


> Establishment(Democrats, 'Republicans', 'Independents' ie scammers) kill their own:
> 
> *Was A DNC Staffer Murdered In A Politically Motivated Hit? Wikileaks Founder Won’t Confirm Or Deny*
> 
> http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...o-have-been-my-source-for-dnc-emails-n2203815
> .............
> 
> @MilSpec
> 
> I thought you were pro-Trump, did you change your mind because of me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He should turn them down, they're a waste of time. He also shouldn't negotiate with them at all, ransack the whole Congress, do a purge on state department, Pentagon, everything, clean this country from this crooked, tyrannical establishment. *I hope if he gets elected, the first thing he does is manufacture a coup,* then use it as excuse to purge the government and replace it with American first folks.
> 
> The Congress will not cooperate with the President or the American people, they only push forward their neocon agenda. It needs to be ransacked , all Congressmen need to be harassed and humiliated. This country has become so lame, it's such a lame tyrannical joke of a government, entertainment industry and news industry also controlled by the crooked establishment, that push our children into lame practices(Drugs, alcohol, fun fun fun fun blah) to keep them distracted from the real issues. Our youth have become a total joke.


Wow, well if he tries to act on what you are suggesting, he’ll definitely will be impeached and thrown in jail.



Nilgiri said:


> Doubt it. Trump is going to expose how she targetted Bill Clinton's *sexual assault victims right in front of her....among other things that will seriously make her sweat that no one has done before.*
> 
> Its going to get quite personal (Trump is not going to be politically correct like an establishment politician would be)....and we all know how Clinton reacts when there is even a hint of her losing any part of her desperately crafted image over decades.
> 
> It should be quite entertaining, just sit back and watch.


This useless old propaganda is not going to affect her, her Republican opponents had brought up this issue in the Senate elections and still she won the Senate elections twice from New York state and in the Democratic primaries she won 15.8 million popular votes, more than 3 million votes then Trump.

General election audience is very different from the Republican primaries voters, trumps dirty language and tactics are not going to work, and the polls are just showing that.


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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> Maybe you missed it, since the Democratic convention, (when our enemies tried to intervene in our elections)* several polls have shown that more than 90%* of Bernie Sanders supporters will vote for Hillary.




Not most polls. And I'm assuming that you are citing a figure from just one or two polls only when third-party candidates are excluded. And even that is among those who are actually voting in this election. Many of us won't be voting for President at all. 

With all due respect, please don't bend the facts to suit your narrative.


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> What rigging are you referring to can you specify?



http://observer.com/2016/07/wikileaks-proves-primary-was-rigged-dnc-undermined-democracy/

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...gged-primary-reveal-extensive-media-collusion


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## Anubis

Everybody knows Bill got a blowjob...and everybody's gotten over it....it won't hurt Hilary...Infact people sympathized with her more because her husband was unfaithful!


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## Nilgiri

Anubis said:


> Everybody knows Bill got a blowjob...and everybody's gotten over it....it won't hurt Hilary...Infact people sympathized with her more because her husband was unfaithful!



Its really not that, its more about the Hildabeest "bimbo" war room:

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/every-clinton-sex-assault-victim/

http://www.wnd.com/2016/05/bills-sex-assault-victim-lashes-out-over-hillarys-terrorizing/

She really went after some women to further in what she could cash in later. She has always coveted the top job and has been very vicious to anyone (including women) that have put spanners in the works over time because of her philandering hubbie.

No mainstream politician has so far challenged her on this (given they are afraid their own skeletons will get aired)....but Trump simply doesn't care....the worst has been thrown at him.....its time to bring the shillary right down and expose her in front of everyone.


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## Anubis

Nilgiri said:


> Its really not that, its more about the Hildabeest "bimbo" war room:
> 
> http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/every-clinton-sex-assault-victim/
> 
> http://www.wnd.com/2016/05/bills-sex-assault-victim-lashes-out-over-hillarys-terrorizing/
> 
> She really went after some women to further in what she could cash in later. She has always coveted the top job and has been very vicious to anyone (including women) that have put spanners in the works over time because of her philandering hubbie.
> 
> No mainstream politician has so far challenged her on this (given they are afraid their own skeletons will get aired)....but Trump simply doesn't care....the worst has been thrown at him.....its time to bring the shillary right down and expose her in front of everyone.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-bloom/why-the-new-child-rape-ca_b_10619944.html

Child Rape...come on...look at it like this...they can't throw Hilary into prison....but they can throw Trump in...I recon both camps will reach a settlement not to bring up any of these in exchange for not fucking Trump over if Hilary gets elected...because even if Trump wins he can't go after Hilary because she is the one of the most influential Senators in the US.If Hilary wins and all cases against Bill are proven do not expect Hilary to be impeached...but Trump can and will be impeached.

Voters can say oh are taking over the establishment over one of our guys all they want....but the American system is far too rigid and "balanced" for one Trump to do anything.


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## Nilgiri

Anubis said:


> .because even if Trump wins he can't go after Hilary because she is the one of the most influential Senators in the US.



Haha, just watch. Half the fun will be the process anyway.

Appoint the right AG, continue the momentum from public support (from quarters like the bernie bros) and there's no telling how much your senatorial experience will help you.

Anyways I mention the targetting of Clinton assault victims by Hillary as something Trump will bring as the ace in the hand for the debates if he attends them.


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## CBU-105

*Full Event: Donald Trump at Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, CT*


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## Darmashkian

SO this is what the American Presidential Election has been turned to  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/763786048702967808



RabzonKhan said:


> What rigging are you referring to can you specify?
> 
> 
> Maybe you missed it, since the Democratic convention, (when our enemies tried to intervene in our elections) several polls have shown that more than 90% of Bernie Sanders supporters will vote for Hillary.
> 
> 
> Actually, he supported the war in the beginning and only a year later started to criticize it.
> 
> 
> He is a guru not a God, those were his opinion, not the data from his polling analysis program that he has developed and is well respected for.
> 
> And nobody is claiming the race is over, but it’s not going to be easy for Trump to put his house in order, that’s for sure.


I don't think there is any chance in hell of Clinton winning a landslide.

The REpublican belt from Idaho to North Carolina is not going to vote for her.

Arizona & Georgia would see a drop in the margins. But Trump will still win.

& losing Utah?? Impossible. Trump has a greater chance of winning Minnesota than losing Utah.

He is facing problems in these 3 states,but that's it.He won't lose

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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## maximuswarrior

What a clown show. The Americans are screwed either way. On the one hand you have the status quo. On the other hand, you have a mad clown who is willing to arm nations with nuclear weapons and even worse.

This may sound strange to some, but Pakistan would be better off with Trump in charge. This maniac is at least very clear about his plans and intentions.


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## CBU-105

*LIVE Stream: Donald Trump Foreign Policy Speech at Youngstown State University 8/15/16*


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## RabzonKhan

Donny, stopped dreaming about New York or California, instead focus on, Arizona, Georgia and Utah, Hillary can color one of them blue. 

*Hillary Clinton crushing Donald Trump 57%-27% in New York State: poll
*
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Monday, August 15, 2016

Hillary Clinton’s campaign must be in an Empire State of mind.

*The Democratic presidential nominee is absolutely crushing Donald Trump in New York, a new poll released Monday showed, refuting any suggestion the mogul has ever made that he could run a competitive race in the reliably blue state.*

Clinton beat Trump in a two-way race 57%-27%, the latest Siena Research Institute poll found. In a four-way matchup, Clinton still destroyed Trump 50%-25%, with another combined 16% saying they’d vote for another candidate.

A whopping 66% of registered New York State voters said Clinton is more qualified to be commander-in-chief than Trump, while only 26% said the opposite. *Read more*




Can’t blame the youngsters, the man is scary. 

*Young voters flee Donald Trump in what may be historic trouncing, poll shows*

*Susan Page and Fernanda Crescente, USA TODAY*_7:15 p.m. EDT August 14, 2016_


WASHINGTON — Democratic presidential nomineeHillary Clinton is consolidating the support of the Millennials who fueled Bernie Sanders' challenge during the primaries, a new USA TODAY/Rock the Vote Poll finds, as Republican Donald Trump heads toward the worst showing among younger voters in modern American history.

The survey shows Clinton trouncing Trump 56%-20% among those under 35, though she has failed so far to generate the levels of enthusiasm Sanders did — and the high turn-out that can signal — among Millennials.

"I get worried about the bigoted element of our country, and that they will stick with Trump regardless of his stupidity," says Elizabeth Krueger, 31, an actress in New York City who was among those surveyed. She supports Clinton. "She is not going to be a perfect president, but who would be?"

The findings have implications for politics long past the November election. If the trend continues, the Democratic Party will have scored double-digit victories among younger voters in three consecutive elections, the first time that has happened since such data became readily available in 1952. That could shape the political affiliations of the largest generation in American history for years to follow.

In the new survey, half of those under 35 say they identify with or lean toward the Democrats; just 20% identify with or lean toward the Republicans. Seventeen percent are independents, and another 12% either identify with another party or don't know.

Trump's weakness among younger voters is unprecedented, lower even than the 32% of the vote that the Gallup Organization calculates Richard Nixon received among 18-to-29-year-old voters in 1972, an era of youthful protests against the Vietnam War. *Read more*



LA se Karachi said:


> Not most polls. And I'm assuming that you are citing a figure from just one or two polls only when third-party candidates are excluded. And even that is among those who are actually voting in this election. Many of us won't be voting for President at all.
> 
> With all due respect, please don't bend the facts to suit your narrative.


Sorry, but that’s not my style, I do not believe in cheap tactics. And you’re right the figure I quoted was from Hillary versus Trump and I had posted that on page number 61, post 901. But you are right to make a better assessment I’ll try to look into polls that also includes other two candidates.

If you don’t mind I have a question, are you a Democrat or Independent?

Here’s the link to the poll I was quoting:


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hill...nt-lead-trump-national-poll/story?id=41053374

*Hillary Clinton Opens 9-Point Lead on Trump in New National Poll, Gains Among Independents, Sanders Supporters*

*By* *RYAN STRUYK*

Aug 1, 2016, 


But Clinton has consolidated her support among primary voters who backed Bernie Sanders as well. Before the convention, Clinton garnered only 78 percent of Sanders supporters last weekend, with 12 percent going to Trump, 6 percent voting for neither and 4 percent voting for a third party candidate.

But now, 91 percent of Sanders backers say they will vote for Clinton and 6 for Trump, who has predicted that the Vermont lawmaker's supporters will come to his side.


----------



## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> Donny, stopped dreaming about New York or California, instead focus on, Arizona, Georgia and Utah, Hillary can color one of them blue.
> 
> *Hillary Clinton crushing Donald Trump 57%-27% in New York State: poll
> *
> NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
> Monday, August 15, 2016
> 
> Hillary Clinton’s campaign must be in an Empire State of mind.
> 
> *The Democratic presidential nominee is absolutely crushing Donald Trump in New York, a new poll released Monday showed, refuting any suggestion the mogul has ever made that he could run a competitive race in the reliably blue state.*
> 
> Clinton beat Trump in a two-way race 57%-27%, the latest Siena Research Institute poll found. In a four-way matchup, Clinton still destroyed Trump 50%-25%, with another combined 16% saying they’d vote for another candidate.
> 
> A whopping 66% of registered New York State voters said Clinton is more qualified to be commander-in-chief than Trump, while only 26% said the opposite. *Read more*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can’t blame the youngsters, the man is scary.
> 
> *Young voters flee Donald Trump in what may be historic trouncing, poll shows*
> 
> *Susan Page and Fernanda Crescente, USA TODAY*_7:15 p.m. EDT August 14, 2016_
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON — Democratic presidential nomineeHillary Clinton is consolidating the support of the Millennials who fueled Bernie Sanders' challenge during the primaries, a new USA TODAY/Rock the Vote Poll finds, as Republican Donald Trump heads toward the worst showing among younger voters in modern American history.
> 
> The survey shows Clinton trouncing Trump 56%-20% among those under 35, though she has failed so far to generate the levels of enthusiasm Sanders did — and the high turn-out that can signal — among Millennials.
> 
> "I get worried about the bigoted element of our country, and that they will stick with Trump regardless of his stupidity," says Elizabeth Krueger, 31, an actress in New York City who was among those surveyed. She supports Clinton. "She is not going to be a perfect president, but who would be?"
> 
> The findings have implications for politics long past the November election. If the trend continues, the Democratic Party will have scored double-digit victories among younger voters in three consecutive elections, the first time that has happened since such data became readily available in 1952. That could shape the political affiliations of the largest generation in American history for years to follow.
> 
> In the new survey, half of those under 35 say they identify with or lean toward the Democrats; just 20% identify with or lean toward the Republicans. Seventeen percent are independents, and another 12% either identify with another party or don't know.
> 
> Trump's weakness among younger voters is unprecedented, lower even than the 32% of the vote that the Gallup Organization calculates Richard Nixon received among 18-to-29-year-old voters in 1972, an era of youthful protests against the Vietnam War. *Read more*
> 
> 
> Sorry, but that’s not my style, I do not believe in cheap tactics. And you’re right the figure I quoted was from Hillary versus Trump and I had posted that on page number 61, post 901. But you are right to make a better assessment I’ll try to look into polls that also includes other two candidates.
> 
> If you don’t mind I have a question, are you a Democrat or Independent?
> 
> Here’s the link to the poll I was quoting:
> 
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hill...nt-lead-trump-national-poll/story?id=41053374
> 
> *Hillary Clinton Opens 9-Point Lead on Trump in New National Poll, Gains Among Independents, Sanders Supporters*
> 
> *By* *RYAN STRUYK*
> 
> Aug 1, 2016,
> 
> 
> But Clinton has consolidated her support among primary voters who backed Bernie Sanders as well. Before the convention, Clinton garnered only 78 percent of Sanders supporters last weekend, with 12 percent going to Trump, 6 percent voting for neither and 4 percent voting for a third party candidate.
> 
> But now, 91 percent of Sanders backers say they will vote for Clinton and 6 for Trump, who has predicted that the Vermont lawmaker's supporters will come to his side.



I'm a registered Democrat.

I just tend to get a little testy when Clinton supporters make it sound like almost all of us are going to go to the polls and vote for Clinton for President. Many of us aren't.

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## RabzonKhan

Nilgiri said:


> http://observer.com/2016/07/wikileaks-proves-primary-was-rigged-dnc-undermined-democracy/
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...gged-primary-reveal-extensive-media-collusion


I read both articles, gave me headache, sorry but my question still stands?



Darmashkian said:


> SO this is what the American Presidential Election has been turned to
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/763786048702967808
> 
> 
> I don't think there is any chance in hell of Clinton winning a landslide.
> 
> The REpublican belt from Idaho to North Carolina is not going to vote for her.
> 
> Arizona & Georgia would see a drop in the margins. But Trump will still win.
> 
> & losing Utah?? Impossible. Trump has a greater chance of winning Minnesota than losing Utah.
> 
> He is facing problems in these 3 states,but that's it.He won't lose
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sorry my friend, I don’t have time now but definitely will discuss this tomorrow.


Cheers!


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> I read both articles, gave me headache, sorry but my question still stands?



Can't help you then.


----------



## RabzonKhan

Oh my goodness, poor Donnie, I remember, once upon a time he used to brag so much about his poll numbers, the poor chap must be missing those days. 



Hillary Clinton is leading Donald Trump in one new national poll and in two other polls measuring support in two key swing states.

*An NBC News/SurveyMonkey Weekly Election Tracking poll released Tuesday found that Clinton leads Trump nationally by 9 percentage points -- 50 percent to 41 percent.

"Clinton is also performing well in the key battleground state of Florida, according to a Monmouth University survey released Tuesday, in which she leads Trump by 9 percentage points. She leads him 48 percent to 39 percent."

Meanwhile, in Virginia, Clinton continues to maintain a double-digit lead over Trump. A Washington Post poll released Tuesday found that she leads him there by 14 percentage points -- 52 percent to 38 percent among registered voters. Read more



*



Darmashkian said:


> I don't think there is any chance in hell of Clinton winning a landslide.


It is not an impossible task, if you do a little research you will find that Trump is doing worse than, McCain and Romney, both of them did far better with the women, Hispanics, Blacks, Asians and whites with college degree. And then the man has a big mouth, hardly a week passes that he starts a new controversy and in the end loses more votes.




> The REpublican belt from Idaho to *North Carolina* is not going to vote for her.


Really, nothing is impossible, check this out:










> Arizona & Georgia would see a drop in the margins. But Trump will still win.


Hillary has already achieved some success by making these two red states competitive. See how close she is:










> & losing Utah?? Impossible. Trump has a greater chance of winning Minnesota than losing Utah.


Yes, Utah, and you know who agrees with me, Trump:


"You’ve got to get your people out to vote, and especially in those states where we’re represented," said Trump, referring to religious populations. "[We're] having a tremendous problem in Utah. Utah’s a different place and I don’t know, is anybody here from Utah?... I didn’t think so. We’re having a problem." *Link*

Trump is facing numerous problems in Utah, first of all, he is not very popular there, in the Republican primaries, Ted Cruz won the state, Kasich came second and Trump was third, winning paltry 14% of the vote.

Second, Mitt Romney, who beat Obama there by nearly 48 points in 2012 is the leader of “Never Trump” movement, is really going to give hard time to Trump in his native state of Utah.

Third, Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson (a former Republican governor) is also very aggressively campaigning in the state.

Fourth, an independent candidate supported by ‘Never Trump”movement, McMullin, a former CIA officer and Republican house chief policy director, who is a Mormon and a native of Utah is also on the ballot there now. Many Mormon do not like Trump’s anti-religious and anti-foreign agenda.

And in the end of the day a divided Republican Party in the state will benefit Hillary.




> He is facing problems in these 3 states,but that's it.He won't lose


Even if Hillary does not win any of these red states her strategy is still quite successful so far, you see the key point is that all these safe red states have become competitive, ultimately, Trump campaign will have to spend precious resources to defend them, when those resources could be spent on battleground states.



Nilgiri said:


> Can't help you then.


It’s fine with me, you made an allegation and failed to substantiate it.

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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> It’s fine with me, you made an allegation and failed to substantiate it.



More like you can't read so well.


----------



## CBU-105

*Pollster Zogby: 'Back to a close race,' Clinton 38%, Trump 36%*

The convention polling bumps for Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton and Republican Donald Trump are over, and they are practically even, according to a new poll of likely voters.

A Zogby Analytics survey provided to Secrets Tuesday shows:

*Hillary Clinton* 38%

*Donald Trump* 36%

*Libertarian Gary Johnson* 8%

*Green Party Jill Stein* 5%

Not sure 13%

"It seems the convention bumps are behind us and we are back to a close race!" said the analysis.

What's new in the online poll is that older millennials are starting to trend to Trump.

Trump's team believes that online polls more accurately show the horserace because more and more voters prefer to give their opinions anonymously.

Pollster John Zogby is a specialist in digging into specific voting blocks, some of which he has given names like NASCAR and Weekly Walmart voters. Zogby revealed in the new poll analysis that those two groups of voters trended Democratic under President Obama, but are now behind Trump.

Overall, Zogby said that Clinton leads middle income voters, blacks, women and Hispanics. Trump leads among independents, men and older voters.

The takeaways from Zogby Analytics' analysis:

_— Donald Trump continues to lead among his core groups, which are men, he leads Clinton 41% to 35%. He also leads Clinton among older likely voters such as 50-64 year olds (41%-36%), and those 65+ (44%-36%)._

_— Trump's numbers have dipped a little among middle income voters, Hillary Clinton now leads among those voters who earn $35k-50k (38%-37%), $50k-75K (37%-34%) and $75-100k (45-35%). Clinton also leads big among her core base-Millennials 18-29 years old (36%-26%), 18-24 year olds (59%-22%), Hispanics (51%-18%) and African Americans (81%-8%), which is not a big surprise. She has also won back the support of women voters, which Trump had narrowed the gap in our last poll; Clinton is winning among women 42% to 32%._

_— Trump has kept the race close by winning Independents. He is winning Independents 32% to 26% and has also closed the gap among older Millennials. Trump is tied with Clinton at 30% among 25-34 year old voters._

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pow-its-just-a-2-point-race-clinton-38-trump-36/article/2599471






----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By S.A. Miller - The Washington Times - Tuesday, August 16, 2016 

Republican Donald Trump made his most direct appeal yet Tuesday for black voters in the presidential race, pushing forward an agenda to restore law and order and revitalize inner-city neighborhoods that he said suffer from years of misguided Democratic policies.

In a speech delivered not far from Milwaukee neighborhoods rocked by anti-police riots, Mr. Trump laid the blame for urban despair and conflict between police and minorities at the feet of Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton.

“I am running to offer you a much better future,” Mr. Trump said in a speech in West Bend, Wisconsin. “Crime and violence is an attack on the poor and it will never be accepted in a Trump administration.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/donald-trump-pushes-law-and-order-agenda-direct-ap/

*FULL: Donald Trump Speech West Bend, Wisconsin 




*
Donald Trump: Hillary Clinton is the Bigot; I will be a Voice for ALL People
*



.

*


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## RabzonKhan

Nilgiri said:


> More like you can't read so well.


There is no need for personal attacks, let’s keep it civil.

Cheers!



CBU-105 said:


> *Pollster Zogby: 'Back to a close race,' Clinton 38%, Trump 36%*
> 
> *The convention polling bumps for Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton and Republican Donald Trump are over, and they are practically even*, according to a new poll of likely voters.
> 
> A Zogby Analytics survey provided to Secrets Tuesday shows:
> 
> *Hillary Clinton* 38%
> 
> *Donald Trump* 36%
> 
> *Libertarian Gary Johnson* 8%
> 
> *Green Party Jill Stein* 5%
> 
> Not sure 13%
> 
> "*It seems the convention bumps are behind us and we are back to a close race!*" said the analysis.


Actually, Hillary is still going strong, Zogby analytics poll was conducted August 12-13.


UPI/CV0TER, August 9 – 15, Hillary is up +7

Morning Consult, August 11 – 14, Hillary is up +7

NBC/Survey Monkey, August 8 – 14, Hillary is up +9

*Source*

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## maximuswarrior

*Donald Trump blames Obama camp for 'Age of Terror'*

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37093846


*US election: Who will be banned under Trump's immigration plan?*

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37086579


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## RabzonKhan

*Clinton Surges Past 270 Electoral Votes in NBC News Battleground Map*

by CHUCK TODD, MARK MURRAY and CARRIE DANN

After releasing our seven battleground-state polls last week -- and seeing several other state surveys -- we've updated our NBC battleground map. The states in Hillary Clinton's column now add up to 288 electoral votes, which exceeds the 270 needed to win the presidency. Donald Trump, meanwhile, is at 174 electoral votes, and an additional 76 are in the Tossup category. Our last map, back in July, showed Clinton with a 255-190 advantage — so Clinton's tally has gone up since the conventions, while Trump's has declined.





In case you missed them, here are the seven battleground-state polls we released last week. The percentages are among registered voters:


Colorado: Clinton 46%, Trump 32% (was Clinton 43%, Trump 35% a month ago)
Florida: Clinton 44%, Trump 39% (was Clinton 44%, Trump 37%)
Iowa: Clinton 41%, Trump 37% (was Clinton 42%, Trump 39%)
North Carolina: Clinton 48%, Trump 39% (was Clinton 44%, Trump 38%)
Ohio: Clinton 43%, Trump 38% (was Clinton 39%, Trump 39%)
Pennsylvania: Clinton 48%, Trump 37% (was Clinton 45%, Trump 36%)
Virginia: Clinton 46%, Trump 33% (was Clinton 44%, Trump 35%)

The polls also revealed four consistent gaps between Clinton and Trump -- the Education Gap (between Clinton's support among whites with college degrees and Trump's support among whites without), the Geographical Gap (Clinton ahead in the cities and suburbs, Trump ahead in the rural areas), the Gender Gap (Clinton leading among women by a bigger margin than Trump leading among men), and the Party Unity Gap (with Democrats backing Clinton by a larger margin than Republicans being behind Trump). *Read more*

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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> There is no need for personal attacks, let’s keep it civil.



Yup lets agree to disagree and move on.

BTW even though we are on opposite sides of this, I do enjoy your regular updates so I can see certain things I feel are part of the whole media exervise against trump

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## XenoEnsi-14

Let me know when Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump decide they aren't running for President.

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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> Actually, Hillary is still going strong, Zogby analytics poll was conducted August 12-13.
> 
> 
> UPI/CV0TER, August 9 – 15, Hillary is up +7
> 
> Morning Consult, August 11 – 14, Hillary is up +7
> 
> NBC/Survey Monkey, August 8 – 14, Hillary is up +9


she is, but the recent media onslaught would have the world believe that the wheels have come off the Trump campaign and that he's done when it's far from over. I'm really looking fwd to the debates, spl the foreign policy one where I think she is most vulnerable and wont be able to escape her terrible record.

looks like crooked Hillary also has some really serious health issues.

http://www.theamericanmirror.com/rest-time-no-public-events-hillary-sunday/

look at her schedule, no rallies, no press conferences (been more than 250 days since she gave one), and compare that to Trump doing 3 huge rallies a day, sometimes more.

anyone can tell this involuntary head movement was not natural and probably a stroke or seizure of some kind.







she is mentally and physically unfit, Trump will probably give her a stroke at the debates. 

------------------------------------------------------

Full Event: Donald Trump town hall at the Pabst Theater in Milwaukee, Wisconsin on Tuesday, August 16, 2016

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## Nilgiri

CBU-105 said:


> she is, but the recent media onslaught would have the world believe that the wheels have come off the Trump campaign and that he's done when it's far from over. I'm really looking fwd to the debates, spl the foreign policy one where I think she is most vulnerable and wont be able to escape her terrible record.
> 
> looks like crooked Hillary also has some really serious health issues.
> 
> http://www.theamericanmirror.com/rest-time-no-public-events-hillary-sunday/
> 
> look at her schedule, no rallies, no press conferences (been more than 250 days since she gave one), and compare that to Trump doing 3 huge rallies a day, sometimes more.
> 
> anyone can tell this involuntary head movement was not natural and probably a stroke or seizure of some kind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> she is mentally and physically unfit, Trump will probably give her a stroke at the debates.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Full Event: Donald Trump town hall at the Pabst Theater in Milwaukee, Wisconsin on Tuesday, August 16, 2016



Don't believe the polls, they are rigged bro. I have looked into how exactly they discern who is a "likely" voter and who isnt....and its pretty laughable how they are so desperate to push the numbers in one direction thinking no one will notice.

Reuters did it quite blatantly a month or so ago....and since then everyone has been a bit more stealthy about it when people let on to the whole thing on reddit etc.....but the cat is out of the bag for people that actually deeply look into it.

This is their last desperate attempt in trying to keep the neo-trump voters at home by ramming "its a lost cause for trump" down their throats.

Don't believe even one word of it for a moment.

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## CBU-105

Nilgiri said:


> Don't believe the polls, they are rigged bro. I have looked into how exactly they discern who is a "likely" voter and who isnt....and its pretty laughable how they are so desperate to push the numbers in one direction thinking no one will notice.
> 
> Reuters did it quite blatantly a month or so ago....and since then everyone has been a bit more stealthy about it when people let on to the whole thing on reddit etc.....but the cat is out of the bag for people that actually deeply look into it.
> 
> This is their last desperate attempt in trying to keep the neo-trump voters at home by ramming "its a lost cause for trump" down their trumps.
> 
> Don't believe even one word of it for a moment.


exactly, in fact it came out a couple days ago that even so called reputed firms like Reuters etc were skewing the methodology and in some cases actually polling more democrats, totally rigged. It's very likely that he is in fact leading with _yuge_ margins but they wont report it.

Either way, the debates are the next big waypoint from where the campaigns will take a decisive turn, so barring a major news event, they might experiment (Trump is shaking up his management again) or just coast till then like lazy crooked hillary is because all of the MSM is all in for her.


----------



## Nilgiri

CBU-105 said:


> exactly, in fact it came out a couple days ago that even so called reputed firms like Reuters etc were skewing the methodology and in some cases actually polling more democrats, totally rigged. It's very likely that he is in fact leading with _yuge_ margins but they wont report it.
> 
> Either way, the debates are the next big waypoint from where the campaigns will take a decisive turn, so barring a major news event, they might experiment (Trump is shaking up his management again) or just coast till then like lazy crooked hillary is because all of the MSM is all in for her.



Bro have you looked at the primary turnout numbers for republicans vs democrats in state by state basis and compare who is the likely winner for each state on that?

Trump wins by a landslide if you do.

Its why no major news media outlet has done it


----------



## CBU-105

Nilgiri said:


> Bro have you looked at the primary turnout numbers for republicans vs democrats in state by state basis and compare who is the likely winner for each state on that?
> 
> Trump wins by a landslide if you do.
> 
> Its why no major news media outlet has done it


yes, the democrats were down 20% while the republican turnout was up over 60% in the primaries ?

that won't matter though, it's all about the electoral college votes now, so even if every eligible person in the state of Alabama votes Trump, he still only gets 9 votes, while if even 1 person more votes for crooked hillary in Ohio, she gets all 18. Apart from 2 states, it's winner take all. 

play the game here: http://www.270towin.com/

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## Nilgiri

CBU-105 said:


> yes, the democrats were down 20% while the republican turnout was up over 60% in the primaries ?
> 
> that won't matter though, it's all about the electoral college votes now, so even if every eligible person in the state of Alabama votes Trump, he still only gets 9 votes, while if even 1 person more votes for crooked hillary in Ohio, she gets all 18. Apart from 2 states, it's winner take all.
> 
> play the game here: http://www.270towin.com/



No im not talking about that (the increase in overall turnout)....but to do it State by State by actual total votes vs total votes from each side.

Let me post what I mean:

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## CBU-105

Nilgiri said:


> No im not talking about that (the increase in overall turnout)....but to do it State by State by actual total votes vs total votes from each side.
> 
> Let me post what I mean:


let's see how it goes, I think I have a reasonably fair idea about the electorate, 'murrican demographics are relatively simple to sift thru, Utah might be a problem for him, and overall it is much tougher for someone on the right to sway enough people their way to win the big one.

one of the more interesting things that has emerged in this US election cycle is the emergence of the 'alt-right', the ultra nationalist/white nationalist movement and their impact on the race, those guys are overwhelmingly pro Trump for his policies. I don't believe Trump himself is a 'racist', in fact it's probably the last thing he thinks about when dealing with people but there are a lot of angry American people out there, a lot of them happen to be white.

the real media know that he's in with a real shot, watch this TYT reporter panic lol






yup, they probably had a better chance with comrade Bernie, crooked hillary is so unlikeable, I cant imagine anyone apart from the most insane feminists, the most clueless gays and terrorist jihadis themselves supporting crooked hillary clinton.

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## Nilgiri

CBU-105 said:


> yup, they probably had a better chance with comrade Bernie, crooked hillary is so unlikeable, I cant imagine anyone apart from the most insane feminists, the most clueless gays and terrorist jihadis themselves supporting crooked hillary clinton.



Many latch on to it being a continuation of obama....and all the free goodies and handouts that entails.

Its basically vote buying (without having to like who is the official face of it).....while leaving the debt and forced resource extraction for the young and even unborn to deal with later.


----------



## RabzonKhan

Mr. Akerson is not a Gay, socialist, communist or Islamist, but is a long time well-respected Republican, why is he supporting Hillary? 


*Former GM chief bucks Trump, endorses Clinton for 'leadership'*

By Nick Gass 08/18/16

Another lifelong Republican is revved up for Hillary Clinton.

Former General Motors chairman and chief executive Daniel Akerson has instilled in his Catholic beliefs in his children, as well as in "God and country," and the Navy veteran has always voted for Republicans for president.

"Not this year," Akerson wrote in a Washington Post op-ed published Wednesday evening. "The compelling rationale behind this decision: leadership. *A good leader must demonstrate such qualities as competence, integrity, empathy, character and temperament. Hillary Clinton has these essential qualities. Donald Trump does not."*

*Trump does not have the "competence" to be commander in chief,* wrote Akerson, who led the auto company from 2010 to 2014 before serving as vice chairman and special adviser to the board of directors at the Carlyle Group from 2014 to 2016. *Read more*

@Nilgiri @CBU-105, you guys have raised some interesting issues, I don’t have time now, but hopefully we can discuss them tomorrow.


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> @Nilgiri @CBU-105, you guys have raised some interesting issues, I don’t have time now, but hopefully we can discuss them tomorrow.



Yup, I would like to hear your side of it as well.


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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> @CBU-105, you guys have raised some interesting issues, I don’t have time now, but hopefully we can discuss them tomorrow.



nice, looking fwd to it.

and I have to say, I find it hard to believe you actually like crooked hillary even if your hatred for Trump and some of the things he's said is completely understandable.






------------------------------------

big changes in the Trump campaign, Manafort resigns
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37134440

full Trump speech from earlier, he's acting more presidential 





Trump finally puts out new adds in battleground states:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/766378021355921408

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## maximuswarrior

*US election: Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort quits*

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37134440

Trump in deep trouble. Polls also not looking good. He is desperate.

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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/766413193216401408


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/766091955898023936


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/765626239679946752






*Why Trump Isn’t Tweeting About the Olympics*

You’d think two weeks of winning might be a golden opportunity. For his campaign, it's just the opposite.

By Alex Goldstein August 18, 2016

*You’d think Donald Trump would love the Olympics: The flag-waving pageantry, the pure, unbridled patriotism—and, my god, the winning. So much winning you almost get tired of the winning.*

*But actually, Trump doesn’t seem to be interested in the Olympics at all: As Team USA shatters world records and scores win after historic win, Trump’s Twitter account, his favored megaphone, has been virtually mum. Since the one awkwardly worded meme he blasted out to his feed on August 5, with his own photo in front of an American flag, Trump has tweeted about the Olympics exactly zero times. *He’s attacked the media, retweeted compliments to Donald Trump, pumped up his rallies. Not a word about the events that people are tuning into every night.

*Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, is seizing the opportunity to ride the wave of these feel-good Olympics. Since the start of the Rio Games, the Clinton campaign has unleashed a steady flow of social media messages congratulating the athletes and embracing their stories.* And she has deliberately piled on by peppering the Olympics broadcast commercial breaks with the same brutal ad, over and over—the one that shows Trump being ridiculed on _Letterman_ for making his clothing lines overseas.

*Why has Trump hit the mute button on the Olympics, while Clinton has pumped up the volume? There’s a good reason for that, and a surprising one. The spectacle of America vanquishing its global rivals is—ironically, amazingly—utterly terrible for the “America First” candidate.*

*A big part of his political message, the one you hear at his stump speeches, is that America has grown weak. America doesn’t win anymore, he says. “Crippled America” is the title of his most recent book. He alone can Make America Great Again. As someone who’s been around a few campaigns, believe me: The Olympics is about the worst thing that could have happened to the Trump train. Here’s a candidate whose message depends entirely on convincing Americans that they’re living in a failing nation overrun by criminal immigrants. And for the past two weeks, tens of millions of Americans have been glued to a multi-ethnic parade of athletes, winning easily. “Make America Great Again” has never felt more out-of-touch than it does against the backdrop of tenacious, overachieving American athletes driven by their own journeys in pursuit of the American dream.*

***

From the start of the opening ceremonies, the Olympics felt almost like a direct rebuke to Trump. As the 555 members of Team USA entered Rio de Janeiro’s Olympic stadium for the opening ceremonies, on an international stage before a television audience of nearly 30 million U.S. households, right up front walked fencer Ibtihaj Muhammad of Maplewood, New Jersey—the first Muslim-American Olympian to compete wearing a hijab. As a group, the athletes embodied an America utterly at odds with the one Trump’s campaign portrays on a daily basis: There was 19-year-old Mexican-American boxer Carlos Balderas of Santa Maria, California, the first in his family born in the United States, destined for the quarterfinals; there was U.S. Army Sergeant Hillary Bor, a Kenyan-born American who was poised to run the 3,000-meter steeplechase while his brother is serving our country in Afghanistan.

*Trump even appeared as a subtext in athletes’ comments. “This is the America that I know and I love,” Ibtihaj Muhammad told CNN after winning a bronze medal and hugging her teammates as part of the U.S. sabre team. “The America that is inclusive, that is accepting and encompasses people from all walks of life.”*

This America also wins, a lot. At press time, the United States sits far atop the Olympic medal leaderboard. We’re beating China. We’re torching the Russians. In the first 10 days of the Olympics, an American stood on the podium 84 times. Twenty-eight of those times, American Olympians stood at the very top, watching the flag rise, through tears, as "The Star-Spangled Banner" played on. For a candidate who tells us we “never win anymore,” “we don’t have a country anymore,” these soaring, transcendent images do more than evoke American pride—they also chip away, directly, at his campaign claims.

The games have always been less about individual athletes and—Ryan Lochte’s misadventures aside—more about the spirit of American resilience, optimism and possibility. And these Olympics have done more to debunk Donald Trump’s stump speech than a legion of the nation’s finest fact-checkers. It turns out that the most effective counter to the Trump spectacle isn't another Pinocchio award bestowed by the “liberal media,” or the Democratic efforts to convince Americans that their country is already great. Instead, it's an even bigger spectacle — one that is definitively not going Trump’s way.

Since the Olympics started, the polls have delivered Trump increasingly worse news: He’s struggling in states that traditionally skew Republican; his campaign is in yet another shakeup. That’s not because of the Olympics; polls don’t work that fast. But it’s hard to miss the way the nightly show has snapped his spell, and drawn the public attention to a version of America that even the most persuasive salesman can’t really convince us needs improvement.

The vast majority of Olympians likely have no interest in dipping their toes into the political currents, nor should they be asked to. They’re presumably as politically diverse as they are culturally. There may even be Trump supporters among them. And great as they’ve been, they’re still waiting for the candidate’s first tweet of congratulation. *Link*


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## JanjaWeed

maximuswarrior said:


> *US election: Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort quits*
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37134440
> 
> Trump in deep trouble. Polls also not looking good. He is desperate.



That's a yoooooj setback for Trump campaign!

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## CBU-105

Trump makes a big pitch to minority voters, good speech.

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## RabzonKhan

POLL CHART
*2016 General Election: Trump vs. Clinton
*
*Currently tracking 285 polls from 42 pollsters. Updated about 10 hours ago*

This chart combines the latest opinion polls into trendlines using a poll-tracking model and is updated whenever a new poll is released. *Link*

*Election on November 8, 2016*

*




*


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## CBU-105

*La Times Tracking Poll – Trump Regains Lead Over Crooked Hillary*
*



*

http://www.latimes.com/politics/

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## RabzonKhan

CBU-105 said:


> yup, they probably had a better chance with comrade Bernie, crooked hillary is so unlikeable, *I cant imagine anyone apart from the most insane feminists, the most clueless gays and terrorist jihadis themselves supporting crooked hillary clinton.*






CBU-105 said:


> nice, looking fwd to it.
> 
> 
> and I have to say, I find it hard to believe you actually like crooked hillary even if your hatred for Trump and some of the things he's said is completely understandable.


Okay, I’ll try to keep it short, this is a very important issue and very close to my heart, even though I was little offended the way you generalized Hillary’s supporters, but its okay, its politics. I have been on the Internet since 2004 and you can check my posts, trust me, I’m not “clueless gay” or a “terrorist jihadist”. I’m very liberal guy when it comes to social issues, but the daddy of all hawks, when it comes to war on terror and stopping Putin from his dangerous dirty games.

And that’s why I support Hillary for three main policy reasons, her foreign policy, position on social issues, and economic plan.

1. Foreign policy, she is a hawk, as she said "This is a time for America to lead, not to cower. And we will lead, and we will defeat terrorists that threaten our friends and allies,", and has a very comprehensive plan to defeat the Isis, “we have to break the group’s momentum and then it’s back. Our goal is not to deter or contain Isis, but to defeat and destroy” *Link*

And unlike her opponent who keeps bickering about some NATO members are not paying their dues and gives the impression that NATO is not that important(Trump and Putin have similar views on NATO), she, on the other hand, understands the importance of NATO.

Even though I’m a liberal, but there are times you have to take a stand, we must work with our allies to totally defeat religious terrorists, and we also have to take a strong stand against Putin’s plan to revive the evil Empire.

And I believe only Hillary can achieve those goals, and that’s why many high level Republican security experts (Richard Armitage, Brent Scowcroft and Henry Paulson, to name a few) are supporting her.

2. On social issues, she has come a long way, today she fully supports the rights of LGBT community and women’s issues. Unlike her demagogue opponent, she’ll be the president of all Americans.

Here is a small sample of Hillary’s supporters:

Aug 18 2016
There continue to be stark differences in candidate support across demographic groups. Women back Clinton over Trump by a wide 49% to 30% margin, while men support Trump by 45% to 33%. And there remain pronounced educational divides: *Those with postgraduate degrees back Clinton by about three-to-one (59% vs. 21%); *among those with some or no college experience, preferences are divided (41% back Trump, 36% Clinton, 9% Johnson and 5% Stein). *Link*


*https://morningconsult.com/2016/07/28/poll-educated-voters-favor-clinton-trump/*
The survey, which interviewed more than 23,000 registered voters from June 1 through July 14, found Clinton with a 17-point lead over Trump, 51 percent to 34 percent, among voters with post-graduate degrees.


*http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-07-12/college-poll*
*White voters with at least a college degree—a group that represented more than a third of the 2012 electorate—back Clinton over Trump 48 percent to 37 percent,* the latest Purple Slice online poll for Bloomberg Politics shows. Romney won that group by 14 percentage points, according to exit polls.

*Among all college-educated likely voters, including those with post-graduate degrees, Clinton leads 54 percent to 32 percent,* a much bigger margin than President Barack Obama’s 2-point advantage with a group that represented 47 percent of the electorate in 2012. Among voters with just a college degree and no post-graduate degree, another subgroup Romney won in 2012, Clinton is ahead 48 percent to 37 percent.

3. Economic plan, she wants to raise the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $12. and will encourage more prosperous states to increase it to $15. Trump on the other hand, first was against the increase, and then said he will encourage states to increase it or something of that sort.

Hillary’s tax plan is far better than Trump’s, it’s high time the filthy rich like Trump start paying their fair share:

The Tax Policy Center estimates that the proposals would increase federal revenue by $1.1 trillion over the first decade and an additional $2.1 trillion over the subsequent 10 years, before considering macroeconomic feedback effects.1 Most of the revenue gain would come from individual income tax changes that affect high income taxpayers. The top 1 percent of households would pay more than three-fourths of Clinton’s total tax increases.* Link*

Trump’s plan proposal would cut taxes at all income levels, although the largest benefits, in dollar and percentage terms, would go to the highest-income households. The plan would reduce federal revenues by $9.5 trillion over its first decade. *Link*

Hillary also has a comprehensive plan to upgrade and rebuild the infrastructure, "A big part of our plan will be unleashing the power of the private sector to create more jobs at higher pay. And that means for us, creating an infrastructure bank to get private funds off the sidelines and complement our public investments. $25 billion in government seed funding could unlock more than $250 billion.

Trump also has a plan to invest $500 billion and rebuilding the infrastructure, but guess what, it will be entirely funded by the federal government, in other words, more freaking debt.

Cheers!


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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> Hillary’s tax plan is far better than Trump’s, *it’s high time the filthy rich like Trump start paying their fair share*:



Filthy rich people like the Clintons should start paying their taxes too instead of using tax loopholes:

_"While the two leading candidates for the presidency, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, have indeed suggested cosmetic fixes for a situation that only grows more extreme with the passage of time, they have themselves taken advantage of numerous tax “efficiency” strategies that make money evaporate. Of course, you shouldn’t doubt for a second that they’ll change their ways once in the Oval Office."

https://www.thenation.com/article/w...and-hillary-clinton-have-one-thing-in-common/
_
You conveniently seem to leave out the fact that the Clintons are filthy rich while mentioning Trump. They have no issue when it comes to avoiding taxes either.

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## LA se Karachi

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> Let me know when Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump decide they aren't running for President.




It's sad isn't it? Two of the most disliked Presidential candidates are running against each other this year:












_http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...or-both-trump-and-clinton-is-record-breaking/

_
And yet both of their supporters seem to brag about them. One can't help but chuckle...

Both parties voted for the least likable and least electable candidates that were running (although Sanders did win something like 45% of elected delegates) --- with turnout below 30% among all voters. Turnout in the general election will likely be low this year as a result. Hopefully, next time both parties won't choose terrible nominees. One can only hope that more people will turnout to vote in the primaries.

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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> Okay, I’ll try to keep it short, this is a very important issue and very close to my heart, even though I was little offended the way you generalized Hillary’s supporters, but its okay, its politics.


hey, I meant absolutely no offence to you personally, and you're right, it is just politics, we're just having a bit of fun and hopefully a meaningful debate on a US election like none other.

That said, I'm not a citizen of the US and don't live there, stuff like socialized healthcare and gun rights etc are really of no concern to me so I'd like to stick to just the foreign policy implications of a possible Trump or Clinton administration.



RabzonKhan said:


> And that’s why I support Hillary for three main policy reasons, her *foreign policy*, position on social issues, and economic plan.
> 
> 1. Foreign policy, she is a hawk, as she said "This is a time for America to lead, not to cower. And we will lead, and we will defeat terrorists that threaten our friends and allies,", and has a very comprehensive plan to defeat the Isis, “we have to break the group’s momentum and then it’s back. Our goal is not to deter or contain Isis, but to defeat and destroy” *Link*


she is indeed a hawk, but in a neocon sense of the word, and I think that makes her dangerous. She voted for the war in Iraq, she orchestrated the whole Libyan regime change fiasco, I'm sure you've seen her "we came , we saw... muahaha" video on Gaddafi.

and she has no plan for defeating ISIS, she's going to continue Obama's imaginary coalition of "64 nations" battling the Islamic State. All she does is talk about her Arab sunni allies in the region, none of which are democracies and the first in that list is the kingdom of Saudi Arabia where they treat their minorities like dirt, execute gays and lesbians, and where women have no rights on top of funding terrorist groups in Syria.

Think logically, even from an operational standpoint, Iraq is a Shi'ite majority democracy, a system of government she helped put in place, and now you want a post-Saddam democratic sovereign Iraq to be invaded by the Saudis and others ? 

Syria is a complicated situation too, which is a whole another discussion, but Trump is on record saying he would not support the so called rebels with US taxpayer money.

Hillary says she'll support the rebels and shoot down Russian jets by imposing a no-fly zone, ww3 essentially.

Trump says he wants a détente/negotiations with Russia on Syria. _*"wouldn't it be nice if we could get along with Russia *_?"

and defeat a common enemy in ISIS and al-Qaeda etc ?



RabzonKhan said:


> And unlike her opponent who keeps bickering about some NATO members are not paying their dues and gives the impression that NATO is not that important(Trump and Putin have similar views on NATO), she, on the other hand, understands the importance of NATO.


he's not 'bickering' about anything, who with ? or did you mean _bitching _? which would be a somewhat more accurate description but it's not that either.

Trump is smart, at this stage he knows he has a 50% chance of becoming the next president of the US. What he's doing now with his "they gotta pay up" rhetoric is setting the bar really high for negotiations with those 23 countries that are actually not honouring their NATO commitment by not even spending 2% of their GDP on defence. Guess who's picking up the slack ? you, Rabzon, aka, the US taxpayer.

The US is 20 odd trillion in debt, what's so wrong if he wants your allies to start paying their own way ?

and NATO, when it was conceived, was set up to prevent the spread of the communist ideology of the Soviet Union which has been gone for 9006 days, or 24 years, 7 months and 27 days as of today !

and do you not find it ironic that your "hawk", crooked Hillary, is the standard bearer of a left wing political party, whose ideological fringe is essentially.... *communist *? 

here is what General Hastings Lionel Ismay, the first secretary General of NATO had to say about the role of NATO:

_*"to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down"*_



RabzonKhan said:


> Even though I’m a liberal, but there are times you have to take a stand, we must work with our allies to totally defeat religious terrorists, and we also have to take a strong stand against Putin’s plan to revive the evil Empire.
> 
> And I believe only Hillary can achieve those goals, and that’s why many high level Republican security experts (Richard Armitage, Brent Scowcroft and Henry Paulson, to name a few) are supporting her.


what evil empire, why you invoking Ronaldus Maximus, liberal ? 

Putin has zero plans to revive a communist union, all he's looking for is a bit of influence on bordering states, which is about par for course for any great regional power.

and you're seriously going to _Trumpet_ neocons like Armitage, Snowcroft and Paulson to make a "national security and foreign policy" case for Hillary Clinton ?

give me a break 



RabzonKhan said:


> 2. On social issues, she has come a long way, today she *fully supports the rights of LGBT community *and women’s issues. Unlike her demagogue opponent, she’ll be the president of all Americans.


how do you explain the donations from Saudis and other fundamentalist Islamic regimes to her foundation then ?

watch





Donald Trump on the LGBTQ community:

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## Nilgiri

Heres the polling bias situation that I talked about earlier summarised into a video:

Watch at least the first 10 - 15 minutes for a synopsis.






@Desert Fox


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## Nilgiri

Did any MSM outlet pick this up? I couldn't find one 

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...l_for_immigration_restrictions_screening_test

*Most Support Trump’s Call for Immigration Restrictions, Screening Test*

Friday, August 19, 2016

Most voters support Donald Trump’s plan for temporarily restricting immigration from countries with a history of terrorism and for testing to screen out newcomers who don’t share America’s values. Most also agree that such a test is likely to reduce the number of terrorists entering the United States.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey find that 59% of Likely U.S. Voters favor a temporary ban on immigration into the United States from "the most dangerous and volatile regions of the world that have a history of exporting terrorism” until the federal government improves its ability to screen out potential terrorists from coming here. Thirty-two percent (32%) oppose such a ban, while 10% are undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here.) 

Seventy-three percent (73%) agree with the Republican presidential nominee’s call for a government screening test for those looking to enter the country that determines whether they have hostile attitudes towards the United States and its constitutional freedoms. Only 18% are opposed to this kind of test.

While Democrats by a 52% to 38% margin oppose the temporary ban on immigrants from countries with a history of terrorism, most voters in Hillary Clinton’s party (57%) agree with the use of a government screening test. Eighty-nine percent (89%) of Republicans and 74% of voters not affiliated with either major party support such a test. But 81% of GOP voters and 59% of unaffiliateds also agree with a temporary ban on those coming from countries with a history of terrorism.

Sixty-one percent (61%) of all voters believe an ideological screening test for immigrants to the United States would decrease the number of potential terrorists entering this country, but that includes only 27% who say it is Very Likely to do so. Thirty-four percent (34%) think the screening test is unlikely to reduce the number of potential terrorists getting into America, although just 10% say it’s Not At All Likely to work.

(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.

The survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted on August 17-18, 2016 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.

Fifty-two percent (52%) of voters believe the federal government does not focus enough on the threat of domestic Islamic terrorism. Just 26% now think the country is safer than it was before the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, the lowest level of confidence ever. 

Sizable majorities across nearly all demographic categories support Trump’s proposed screening test to determine whether potential newcomers are hostile to America and its basic freedoms. But voters are more divided over his call for a temporary immigration ban from areas with a history of terrorism.

Most voters of all ages support such a ban, but the older the voter, the more likely he or she is to favor it. Only 44% of blacks support putting a temporary hold on immigration from terrorist countries, compared to 61% of whites and 59% of other minority voters.

Self-described politically liberal voters are much less supportive of both the temporary ban and the screening test than conservatives and moderates are.

Republicans believe more strongly than Democrats and unaffiliated voters do that the screening test is likely to reduce the potential for domestic terrorism.

Among voters who favor the ideological screening test, 76% say it is likely to decrease the number of potential terrorists entering the country. Eighty-one percent (81%) of those opposed to the test say it is unlikely to reduce the domestic terrorist threat.

President Obama and Hillary Clinton still won't say it, but most voters continue to believe the United States is at war with radical Islamic terrorism. 

In late March, voters were closely divided over Trump’s call for a temporary ban on all Muslims entering the United States until the federal government improves its ability to screen out potential terrorists from coming here. 

Following the massacre at an Orlando nightclub in June, most voters think the government won't be able to stop further terrorist attacks on the homeland and say the country’s Islamic community should be doing more to condemn such violence. 

A government report earlier this year said over 500,000 visitors to the United States overstayed their legal visas in 2015 and didn’t go home. Most voters think those who overstay their visas are a serious national security threat and that the feds need to take stronger steps to deport them. 

Additional information from this survey and a full demographic breakdown are available to Platinum Members only. 

Please sign up for the Rasmussen Reports daily email update (it’s free) or follow us on Twitter or Facebook. Let us keep you up to date with the latest public opinion news.


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## Devil Soul

*Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance*
Home / World / Trump campaign signals possible shift on immigration stance
By REUTERS
August 22, 2016
Latest : World

0
0







WASHINGTON: A senior aide to U.S. Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump signaled a possible shift in his hardline immigration policies on Sunday, saying his plans to deport 11 million people who are in the country illegally were under review.

Trump has put his vow to toughen the country's immigration policies at the center of his campaign. He has promised to carry out mass deportations and build a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border, proposals that critics have assailed as inhumane and too costly and unrealistic to achieve.

Trailing Democrat Hillary Clinton in opinion polls for the Nov. 8 election and struggling to broaden his support beyond the white working-class voters who have been his base of support, the New York businessman has reached out in recent days to black and Hispanic voters.

On Sunday, his new campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway, told CNN that Trump was committed to a "fair and humane" approach to those living in the country illegally.

"What he supports is to make sure we enforce the law, we are respectful of those Americans who are looking for well-paying jobs and that we are fair and humane to those who live among us in this country," Conway said on "State of the Union."

Pressed on whether Trump's plans would include a "deportation force" that the candidate previously pledged to set up, she replied: "To be determined."

Republican Senator Jeff Sessions, a close ally of Trump, told CBS's "Face the Nation" that Trump was still working through his plans for deportations should he win the White House.

"He's wrestling with how to do that. People that are here unlawfully, came into the country against our laws, are subject to being removed. That's just plain fact," the Alabama lawmaker said. "He's thinking that through."

Trump has also been rebuked by opponents for his proposal to impose a temporary "total and complete shutdown" of Muslims seeking to enter the country, later rolled back to focus on countries with "a proven history of terrorism."

Clinton has accused Trump of sowing divisiveness and said she would propose a path to citizenship for some migrants living in the United States illegally. The former secretary of state has said that militant groups like Islamic State have begun using Trump's proposed Muslim ban as a recruitment tool.

CAMPAIGN SHAKE-UP

Conway's comments came after Trump announced last week a major reshuffling of his campaign. Trump promoted Conway, who had been a senior adviser, to the role of campaign manager and hired Stephen Bannon, head of the Breitbart News website, as campaign chief executive.

The Trump campaign said on Friday that campaign chairman Paul Manafort was resigning.

The campaign's new leadership combines Bannon, a combative conservative, with Conway, a data-driven analyst who has been trying to broaden Trump's appeal to women and independent voters.

Trump's support has slumped in national polls in recent weeks and surveys in pivotal states such as Pennsylvania and New Hampshire have shown a widening lead for Clinton.

A Reuters/Ipsos survey released on Friday showed Clinton leading Trump nationally by 8 percentage points, 42 percent to 34 percent.

Trump vowed at a campaign rally in Fredericksburg, Virginia, on Saturday to return the Republican Party to the values of President Abraham Lincoln, who issued the Emancipation Proclamation and championed the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution during the U.S. Civil War that led to the abolition of slavery in 1865.

Earlier on Saturday, Trump met with a group of Hispanic leaders as part of a new National Hispanic Advisory Council to the campaign.


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## Anubis

The best projection out there is Sabato's Crystal ball...no bias...they are equally praised by both left and right wing media.
Here there projection.





They give Clinton a clear majority.

Their projections for the previous elections were 97-100% accurate.

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## cloud4000

Anubis said:


> The best projection out there is Sabato's Crystal ball...no bias...they are equally praised by both left and right wing media.
> Here there projection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They give Clinton a clear majority.
> 
> Their projections for the previous elections were 97-100% accurate.



Regardless of what the polls state, regardless who wins in November, America will get the leader it deserves.


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## Anubis

cloud4000 said:


> Regardless of what the polls state, regardless who wins in November, America will get the leader it deserves.


Lol...the politicians are only as good as the people....they are reflections of our national character.

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## cloud4000

*http://www.wsj.com/articles/in-clinton-vs-trump-the-quiet-impact-of-asian-americans-1471886892

In Clinton vs. Trump, the Quiet Impact of Asian-Americans*
*Republican nominee tries to court blacks and Hispanics, but another group that leans Democratic gets less attention*





ENLARGE
Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump hasn’t had much success attracting support from Asian-Americans. PHOTO: GERALD HERBERT/ASSOCIATED PRESS



By 
GERALD F. SEIB
Aug. 22, 2016 1:28 p.m. ET
45 COMMENTS

Donald Trump has made overtures in the last few days to Hispanic and African-American voters, trying to whittle away at the giant advantages Hillary Clinton enjoys among them.

There is a third group that gets less attention, but one that provides Democrats a similar strategic edge: Asian-Americans.

Asian-Americans are the fastest-growing racial group in the nation. More than nine million of them will be eligible to vote in November, an increase of 16% from four years ago.

The bad news for Republicans is that this growth in the Asian-American electorate appears to be accompanied by an increasing tilt toward the Democrats. One national poll of Asian-American voters earlier this year found a 12-point increase in those who identify as Democrats since 2012, to 47% from 35%.

Can that matter? Ask Democratic Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia. He won re-election two years ago by the narrowest of margins, defeating Republican Ed Gillespie by fewer than 18,000 votes out of 2.18 million cast. Virginia’s large population of Asian-Americans likely provided the difference. They make up 5% of the state’s electorate, and a pre-election poll showed them going for Mr. Warner by a 2-to-1 margin.

For Mr. Trump and his party, Asian-Americans are another example of how his get-tough stance on immigration represents a two-edged sword. It has helped galvanize support and drive up enthusiasm among working-class whites, many of whom think immigration has damaged them economically and undermined the American culture they have known.

Meanwhile, on the sliding scale of the diverse American electorate, votes gained there are offset by votes lost to groups who hear chants of “build that wall” as an ominous sign.

Mr. Trump and his supporters insist that his policies are directed not at immigration generally but at illegal immigration specifically, but they have had a hard time getting that message across. Over the weekend, his campaign appeared to begin softening its tone; his new campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway, said Mr. Trump wouldn’t necessarily stick with his pledge to seek deportation of 11 million undocumented aliens.

Still, the hole he and his party faces appears to be deep, including with Asian-American voters.

A survey earlier this year by the Asian and Pacific Islander American Vote project, a nonpartisan organization that works to mobilize voters of Asian heritage, found that 61% of Asian-American registered voters held an unfavorable view of Mr. Trump, while a nearly identical share held a favorable view of Mrs. Clinton. The same survey found that 40% said they would vote against a candidate who expressed “strongly anti-immigrant views,” even if they agreed with that candidate on other issues.

Such readings frustrate Republicans who think Asian-Americans ought to have a more natural affinity with the GOP. While Asian-Americans are hardly monolithic—they include those with roots in the Philippines, Korea, China and Vietnam as well in the Asian subcontinent countries of India and Pakistan—many have a wide entrepreneurial streak that would seem in sync with Republican policies.

Surveys suggest they aren’t strongly rooted in either party, and aren’t especially liberal. The APIAVote survey showed 23% called themselves liberal, 19% conservative and a whopping 48% moderate.

But many of these Asian-Americans also are making their marks in the high-tech world, where Mr. Trump’s immigration policies are unpopular. Moreover, there are signs that Democratic outreach to Asian-Americans has simply been better than that of the Republicans.

So what difference does all this make, now and in the future? Nationally, the impact of Asian-Americans isn’t huge. They make up only about 4% of eligible voters.

But in some key battleground states their impact will be significantly larger than that. In addition to Virginia, Asian-Americans make up 9% of the electorate in Nevada, 7% in New Jersey and 3.1% in Minnesota. In California, they make up almost 15% of the electorate.

Like Hispanics, Asian-Americans’ political activism hasn’t always matched their numbers, but that may be changing. The number of Asian-Americans running for Congress rose to 40 this year from eight just eight years ago. In one of the nation’s most prominent Senate races, Democratic Rep. Tammy Duckworth of Illinois, an Asian-American fluent in Thai and Indonesian, is seeking to knock off Republican Sen. Mark Kirk.

Long-term trends mean the impact of Asian-Americans will only rise. Immigration from Asia is rapidly overtaking immigration from Latin America as the largest source of new arrivals. The Pew Research Center says that Asians already outnumber Hispanics among immigrants who have arrived in the last five years, partly because of a sharp drop in immigration from Mexico. By 2065, a Pew study says, Asians will outnumber Hispanics among all immigrants.

That’s the real reason Republicans ought to be worried about their standing with Asian-Americans. They are arriving as a full-fledged political force, and 2016 is only the start.

Write to Gerald F. Seib at jerry.seib@wsj.com



cloud4000 said:


> Long-term trends mean the impact of Asian-Americans will only rise. Immigration from Asia is rapidly overtaking immigration from Latin America as the largest source of new arrivals. The Pew Research Center says that Asians already outnumber Hispanics among immigrants who have arrived in the last five years, partly because of a sharp drop in immigration from Mexico. By 2065, a Pew study says, Asians will outnumber Hispanics among all immigrants.
> 
> That’s the real reason Republicans ought to be worried about their standing with Asian-Americans. They are arriving as a full-fledged political force, and 2016 is only the start.
> 
> Write to Gerald F. Seib at jerry.seib@wsj.com



Republicans are ignoring immigrants at their own peril. Many immigrants are conservative, hard-working folks who would make them natural Republicans, but the GOP, in its current form, doesn't want them.

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## Nilgiri

Anubis said:


> The best projection out there is Sabato's Crystal ball...no bias...they are equally praised by both left and right wing media.
> Here there projection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They give Clinton a clear majority.
> 
> Their projections for the previous elections were 97-100% accurate.



Can you explain to me why almost all the MSM polls distort their polls consistently using much higher democrat representation beyond the actual prevalence in a state?

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## Anubis

Nilgiri said:


> Can you explain to me why almost all the MSM polls distort their polls consistently using much higher democrat representation beyond the actual prevalence in a state?


Some are left leaning and they do.....but most don't...that's why most get it right.. The particular one I posted is very accurate...they have a track record...there will always be a general error. Besides ALL polling agencies have a bias...they have always had it....Rasmussen is one of the most respected polling agencies with a historic Republican bias...besides there are other factors too....there's a considerable chunk of Republican voters who are OLD or poor southerners who do not have access to/use the internet or telephones...they are almost always ignored....and more importantly unless it is a swing state it doesn't matter if the polls get the number of Democrats wrong by 5-10%....and the recent outcry about how everyone is skewed and biased is hugely due to rally effect....Sabato pointed it out in a recent interview too...as an example in the Nixon-McGovern election of the 70's McGovern had a huge rallies but lost to Nixon...The polls are not skewed in any meaningful way...Even Rasmussen shows Hilary leading Trump. Trump voters probably never cared about politics enough to know these historic biases of polls...when you are a new kid in the field these things will shock you.

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## Nilgiri

Anubis said:


> Some are left leaning and they do.....but most don't...that's why most get it right..



Most don't?!?!?....beyond the LA times I haven't seen one that is not deliberately using a skewed representation (time after time - you would expect the representation to average out over time.....but nope!!! Goes to show just how badly Hillary is doing).

One needs to only look at the turnout for republicans and democrats for the primaries on a state by state basis to get an idea of just how badly skewed it is.

They either select democrat zones (like say using Atlanta to represent the whole of Georgia) or they completely distort the standardisation of it. Please watch the first 10 minutes of the video on post 1029 to get what I mean.

Anyways the MSM just continues to dig itself into a nice big hole which will be exposed come november....I guess its their last swan song as their reputation will get totally destroyed even among the fewer than 10% of the people that still believe they are honest.

https://therealstrategy.com/proof-new-polls-rigged-hillary-losing-7/

I mean when new jobs are being "created" on the basis of a strong paying old ones being replaced by 3 part time crap ones because of obamacare....then its not so strange to imagine this line of thinking dominates the desperate democrat elite and their MSM butt-buddies.

Statistics and lieing go hand in hand.


----------



## Anubis

Nilgiri said:


> Most don't?!?!?....beyond the LA times I haven't seen one that is not deliberately using a skewed representation (time after time - you would expect the representation to average out over time.....but nope!!! Goes to show just how badly Hillary is doing).
> 
> One needs to only look at the turnout for republicans and democrats for the primaries on a state by state basis to get an idea of just how badly skewed it is.
> 
> They either select democrat zones (like say using Atlanta to represent the whole of Georgia) or they completely distort the standardisation of it. Please watch the first 10 minutes of the video on post 1029 to get what I mean.
> 
> Anyways the MSM just continues to dig itself into a nice big hole which will be exposed come november....I guess its their last swan song as their reputation will get totally destroyed even among the fewer than 10% of the people that still believe they are honest.
> 
> https://therealstrategy.com/proof-new-polls-rigged-hillary-losing-7/
> 
> I mean when new jobs are being "created" on the basis of a strong paying old ones being replaced by 3 part time crap ones because of obamacare....then its not so strange to imagine this line of thinking dominates the desperate democrat elite and their MSM butt-buddies.
> 
> Statistics and lieing go hand in hand.


It still doesn't matter.....there are other polls than MSMs......Gallup,Rasmussen,Sabato,Ipsos....Reuters is not American they don't have a dog in the fight...they wouldn't care if America self destructed tomorrow...And I have to question the credibility of your source....with news like this I expect a forumer of your caliber to question yourself whether they actually have a point to make or just website hits to sell.


*US Air Force Officer Identifies CERN Human Sacrifice Victim*

*‘Modern Art’ Was a CIA Psych ‘Weapon’*

It is a classic conspiracy theory website....I can site 5 times more online sources claiming 9/11 was an inside job..does not make it true.
Now that I have made a (what I think is deserving) ad hominem attack against your clearly horrible source let me address the points made by your source as some kind of discovery into the horrible underbelly of polling.
As I have pointed out Trump supporters are new to the game many ancient things seem new and shocking to them...the wording of the question has always affected the results of the poll...it is nothing new...it is as ancient as the art of polling itself....the very patriots who are jumping up and down from Trump today shot down the "ESTATE TAX" by having their pollsters call it the DEATH TAX....

This has been a well discussed issue in the world of polling.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/9193/scientific-approach-question-wording-differences.aspx

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703384204575510272945083114

The wording issue is ancient....it was not devised by the "World Elites" in their secret meeting at the Bohemian Grove while they were sacrificing a baby to please the Rothschields to defeat Trump.
Come up with a better argument or accept the fact chances of Trump loosing fair and square is pretty high. And if you still hate the MSM be my guest...go ahead and see other historically accurate polls.


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## Nilgiri

Anubis said:


> Gallup,Rasmussen,Sabato,Ipsos.



and they all suffer from the same exact issue to varying degrees.

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...-clinton-voted-most-admired-2013-2864068.html

http://www.davidwmoore.us/

According to former Gallup pollster David W. Moore, these polls mislead and drive a false public perception. Mr. Moore goes so far as to say Polls even undermine American democracy.

For years, we pollsters have systematically misled the Ameri-
can people about the accuracy of our polls, claiming a degree of
precision in assessing public opinion that is far removed from
reality. We do acknowledge, of course, a “margin of error” asso-
ciated with the size of our samples, that well-known “plus or
minus 3 percentage points” phrase suggesting that our polling
numbers are usually very close to what we would have meas-
ured had we interviewed every living adult in the country. And
just to cover ourselves, we add the not-so-innocuous fine print:
*“In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical
difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias
into the findings of public opinion polls.” *This phrase would
scare the bejesus out of poll users if they understood what it re-
ally means. In fact, when I included this phrase on a report to
one of Gallup’s bank clients, the astute contact at the bank in-
sisted it be deleted. “It essentially says you can’t trust any of the
numbers, What good is a report like that?”

---------

So like I said polls do not equal votes. Lets hope the voting isn't rigged too....there will be serious blowback against the establishment if so....one they probably will not survive. Best to cut the losses, accept hillary is going to prison and let the american people change their country....and go with the flow of popular sentiment and try to deviously come back at a later point when people are no longer so fed up.



Anubis said:


> It is a classic conspiracy theory website....I can site 5 times more online sources claiming 9/11 was an inside job..does not make it true.



But can you attack the content rather than the context?

Also you ignore what I posted in reply 1029. 10 minutes at the start of that video is all i ask.

Also worth checking out for everyone:

http://akdart.com/polls.html

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/369767/-

This election is going to be determined a lot by social media....not mainstream media.

Trump is way ahead on social media I have to say....its something that is so anathema and out of control to the establishment ....thats what has created a large part of the trump wave thats happening.


----------



## Anubis

Nilgiri said:


> and they all suffer from the same exact issue to varying degrees.
> 
> http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...-clinton-voted-most-admired-2013-2864068.html
> 
> http://www.davidwmoore.us/
> 
> According to former Gallup pollster David W. Moore, these polls mislead and drive a false public perception. Mr. Moore goes so far as to say Polls even undermine American democracy.
> 
> For years, we pollsters have systematically misled the Ameri-
> can people about the accuracy of our polls, claiming a degree of
> precision in assessing public opinion that is far removed from
> reality. We do acknowledge, of course, a “margin of error” asso-
> ciated with the size of our samples, that well-known “plus or
> minus 3 percentage points” phrase suggesting that our polling
> numbers are usually very close to what we would have meas-
> ured had we interviewed every living adult in the country. And
> just to cover ourselves, we add the not-so-innocuous fine print:
> *“In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical
> difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias
> into the findings of public opinion polls.” *This phrase would
> scare the bejesus out of poll users if they understood what it re-
> ally means. In fact, when I included this phrase on a report to
> one of Gallup’s bank clients, the astute contact at the bank in-
> sisted it be deleted. “It essentially says you can’t trust any of the
> numbers, What good is a report like that?”
> 
> ---------
> 
> So like I said polls do not equal votes. Lets hope the voting isn't rigged too....there will be serious blowback against the establishment if so....one they probably will not survive. Best to cut the losses, accept hillary is going to prison and let the american people change their country....and go with the flow of popular sentiment and try to deviously come back at a later point when people are no longer so fed up.
> 
> 
> 
> But can you attack the content rather than the context?
> 
> Also you ignore what I posted in reply 1029. 10 minutes at the start of that video is all i ask.
> 
> Also worth checking out for everyone:
> 
> http://akdart.com/polls.html
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/369767/-
> 
> This election is going to be determined a lot by social media....not mainstream media.
> 
> Trump is way ahead on social media I have to say....its something that is so anathema and out of control to the establishment ....thats what has created a large part of the trump wave thats happening.


I know the wording issue...I did attack the content....I know the inherent problem with polls..I already pointed out how liberals were on the receiving end of poll skewing not a long time ago...I mentioned it at the last part of my response....I rarely post polls here to support any of my points....but there is another point that you haven't been able to see....The polls take public opinion...in the American electoral college public opinion does not matter in elections....Gore got a whole 1% more votes than Bush but he still lost because of the way the college is designed....that's why the only statistics I posted was Sabato's Crystal ball....that one analyzes the college not general public opinion....And social media...if the super enthusiast social media posters do not come from swing states their enthusiasm won't matter...Unless you are from a swing state your voice doesn't count....whether you believe MSM of Fox News or "alternative" news....
Rigging the election....If Trump looses I am cent percent sure Trump supporters are going to say it is rigged....because you can be sure those who just discovered how polling works don't know anything about the electoral college....the college in its essence looks fishy...and to a Trump fanboy this is going to be a gold mine of conspiracies...There is no conspiracy against Trump...we elected Bush twice..we can stand four years of Trump....to those who are unaware about how America works...everything will seem rigged and skewed.

And now let me point out another thing. Most of the polls you criticize now used the SAME methods 4 years ago and 8 years ago and they made the CORRECT predictions.

Bill Mitchell missed Rasmussen....which always has a R+ sample. He made another big mistake by saying that most polls are D+ and not R+...the problem is America is D+....there are more Democrats than Republicans..Gallup found out last year that there were around 3% more Democrats than Republicans..Thats a REALITY not a BIAS....there's nothing you can do about it....In recent history Bush V Kerry was the only popular election the Republicans won....they lost popular vote in Bush V Gore but won due to the electoral college. Obama and Clinton won popular elections.

So my point is either you accept the fact there are things inherently wrong with polling but most of the time the predictions they make is correct....or you dismiss the idea of polling altogether and stop paying attention to it...but when you try to find "conspiracies" you literally look like you are looking for excuses you are going to present when the results come out and you loose....Billy Mittchell's R=D isn't a proper polling technique either when the sample is inherently D+.
I will however stand by Sabato's model...he does take polling into consideration...normalizes them averages them and then implements in the map....and for now his maps show Hilary is wining.

@Nilgiri 
Oh look this isn't even a new tactic

http://thefederalist.com/2016/06/24/no-the-polls-arent-biased-clinton-really-is-leading-trump/

They said Obama was given unfair bias over Romney and came up with thei own Un-Skewed Polls to destroy the evil liberal elites...guess who won....

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## Nilgiri

Anubis said:


> The polls take public opinion



They really don't.



Anubis said:


> And now let me point out another thing. Most of the polls you criticize now used the SAME methods 4 years ago and 8 years ago and they made the CORRECT predictions.



They never distorted the sampling and standardisation like they have now since it was always establishment vs establishment.



Anubis said:


> Bill Mitchell missed Rasmussen....which always has a R+ sample.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/763737144896749568
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/white_house_watch

Rasmussen also does not do a state by state analysis. So a cpl % between the two does not reflect the swing performance (which you can see in the turnouts by republicans and democrats in these crucial states during the primaries).

With Hillary alienating sanders supporters, I think Trump will take a lot of these states convincingly and put real pressure on places like new york, michigan and california even.

It is the swing state polling by the MSM that is expressly duplicitous and outright wrong for the most part. They poll only in the major urban city, do not standardise (or do it poorly) and hope no one checks it. Not going to work in todays environment of social media like it has before.



Anubis said:


> I will however stand by Sabato's model...he does take polling into consideration...normalizes them averages them and then implements in the map....and for now his maps show Hilary is wining.



When the polls he takes are skewed and biased to begin with, a final model can only be so good no matter how much you normalise and standardise it (again which can be done with bad methodology). Its like that lipstick on a pig comment by Obama.....and it will be Hillary that gets to experience this now.



Anubis said:


> @Nilgiri
> Oh look this isn't even a new tactic
> 
> http://thefederalist.com/2016/06/24/no-the-polls-arent-biased-clinton-really-is-leading-trump/
> 
> They said Obama was given unfair bias over Romney and came up with thei own Un-Skewed Polls to destroy the evil liberal elites...guess who won....



I stopped reading when it said:

The fact is there just are more Democrats out there than Republicans, and this has largely been the case at least since the New Deal.

....implying that voter registration = voter Identification. Obviously whoever wrote it has not looked at the trend of registered democrats (who really are independents and have not changed their registration for a myriad of reasons mostly stemming from having to do the paperwork) supporting Trump/Republicans way more than the reverse. Significant numbers of people coming out for trump lie in the independent zone.

A full 73% of the US according to Rasmussen (and polls before it too) support the ban on muslims coming into the US.

Trump has put out a call sign and now he's telling them the story they want to hear....without any political correctness and sugar coating. Im sorry I just dont see Hillary having a chance unless she rigs the voting itself....the debates will just cement this.


----------



## Anubis

Nilgiri said:


> They really don't.
> 
> 
> 
> They never distorted the sampling and standardisation like they have now since it was always establishment vs establishment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/763737144896749568
> http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/white_house_watch
> 
> Rasmussen also does not do a state by state analysis. So a cpl % between the two does not reflect the swing performance (which you can see in the turnouts by republicans and democrats in these crucial states during the primaries).
> 
> With Hillary alienating sanders supporters, I think Trump will take a lot of these states convincingly and put real pressure on places like new york, michigan and california even.
> 
> It is the swing state polling by the MSM that is expressly duplicitous and outright wrong for the most part. They poll only in the major urban city, do not standardise (or do it poorly) and hope no one checks it. Not going to work in todays environment of social media like it has before.
> 
> 
> 
> When the polls he takes are skewed and biased to begin with, a final model can only be so good no matter how much you normalise and standardise it (again which can be done with bad methodology). Its like that lipstick on a pig comment by Obama.....and it will be Hillary that gets to experience this now.
> 
> 
> 
> I stopped reading when it said:
> 
> The fact is there just are more Democrats out there than Republicans, and this has largely been the case at least since the New Deal.
> 
> ....implying that voter registration = voter Identification. Obviously whoever wrote it has not looked at the trend of registered democrats (who really are independents and have not changed their registration for a myriad of reasons mostly stemming from having to do the paperwork) supporting Trump/Republicans way more than the reverse. Significant numbers of people coming out for trump lie in the independent zone.
> 
> A full 73% of the US according to Rasmussen (and polls before it too) support the ban on muslims coming into the US.
> 
> Trump has put out a call sign and now he's telling them the story they want to hear....without any political correctness and sugar coating. Im sorry I just dont see Hillary having a chance unless she rigs the voting itself....the debates will just cement this.


Umm...they really do...if they didn't nobody would use them.

There is no evidence that they are doing anything special this time....all you came up with was how wording effects polling...it always effected polling...it always will.
Before posting a tweet you should have checked Rasmussen's website
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/white_house_watch

Clinton 41 Trump 39

Again his final models always worked...because you have still failed to prove that there is anything nefarious going on against Trump....The present polls have all the weaknesses they always had and his models always worked.
A majority of Americans would not vote for a Muslim into office....they voted a guy who was marketed as a muslim by the right wing.
73% of Americans can support the ban on Muslims...but majority of Americans also have other issues to look at too...Hispanics can want a ban on Muslims....but they also don't want a wall...so just because one of Trumps issues has support does not mean he has support to be President....do not conflate the two things....You read "between the lines" from the article I posted...they did not mention how they found out that there are Democrats than Republicans....you cannot assume that until you research...It was found out by gallup in a phone in polling...they asked people what they identify with.....not based on numbers provided by the party based on primary registration.

At the end you sound like a religious Trump supporter....unfortunately religious people are usually the very worst to rationalize with...when you say if Hilary wins she must rig the voting you literally sound like Christian creationists who say Fossils were put on earth to test their faith....I will say it no matter who you support base your assumptions on evidence not faith...you can have all the faith you want on Trump...but there is pretty good chance the American people will choose Hilary and she will win fair and square....and then everything will be as they were...except for maybe a couple of tin foil hats in the deep south and one lone Canadian who will still think Trump actually won.

You usually come of as a very sane and rational poster who knows how to use data in other threads but here unfortunately you are quite the antithesis of your image...I wonder why.


----------



## Nilgiri

Anubis said:


> At the end you sound like a religious Trump supporter....unfortunately religious people are usually the very worst to rationalize with...when you say if Hilary wins she must rig the voting you literally sound like Christian creationists who say Fossils were put on earth to test their faith



I judge it by the total number of democrats that actually came out to vote in the primaries in all the swing states that matter compared to republicans. You can look up the numbers yourself.

That too this was when there was a Sanders factor in the democrat side of things.

This is the clear qualitative data I want and base things on (actual physical turnout, not polling shenanigans).

Things will only add onto that base....as I see Hillary playing only a "me too" narrative instead of actually setting any new paths that gather public interest like say Trump and immigration.

So like I said Hillary is going to lose and lose pretty badly unless she and the crony elite rig it (and in which case you will not hear the end of it at that point). 

Call me "religious" or "faith based" or whatever....but the physical turnout numbers in the actual voting do not lie.

If you believe the primaries do not include enough of the undecided voters and non-affiliated voters (who may be more likely to vote now)....well you can see how the MSM accounts for those in their "polling" and challenge that before debating it here.

So sorry I don't believe significantly in the polling....I would say the same even if Trump is ahead (though in that case its probably more closer to the actual truth in my opinion).

We can agree to disagree and move on and see what happens in November. It has been good interacting with you on something outside of Bangladesh for a change 

Yes I do not fit the mould of a Canadian....but certainly am not a lone tin foil hat wearer in a crushing crowd of liberals. There is a significant crowd of people that say one thing among a group....but then reveal something else altogether when they are alone.....like in a polling booth

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## Anubis

Nilgiri said:


> I judge it by the total number of democrats that actually came out to vote in the primaries in all the swing states that matter compared to republicans. You can look up the numbers yourself.
> 
> That too this was when there was a Sanders factor in the democrat side of things.
> 
> This is the clear qualitative data I want and base things on (actual physical turnout, not polling shenanigans).
> 
> Things will only add onto that base....as I see Hillary playing only a "me too" narrative instead of actually setting any new paths that gather public interest like say Trump and immigration.
> 
> So like I said Hillary is going to lose and lose pretty badly unless she and the crony elite rig it (and in which case you will not hear the end of it at that point).
> 
> Call me "religious" or "faith based" or whatever....but the physical turnout numbers in the actual voting do not lie.
> 
> If you believe the primaries do not include enough of the undecided voters and non-affiliated voters (who may be more likely to vote now)....well you can see how the MSM accounts for those in their "polling" and challenge that before debating it here.
> 
> So sorry I don't believe significantly in the polling....I would say the same even if Trump is ahead (though in that case its probably more closer to the actual truth in my opinion).
> 
> We can agree to disagree and move on and see what happens in November. It has been good interacting with you on something outside of Bangladesh for a change
> 
> Yes I do not fit the mould of a Canadian....but certainly am not a lone tin foil hat wearer in a crushing crowd of liberals. There is a significant crowd of people that say one thing among a group....but then reveal something else altogether when they are alone.....like in a polling booth


If you base your predictions on Primary Turnouts I have bad news for you.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...brooks-said-primary-turnout-doesnt-predict-g/

Even if the majority of Americans did vote for Trump...the college design could mean Hilary could win...just like Bush V Gore...she doesn't need to rig it...it doesn't matter how many people support Trump in gerogia be it 51% or 100% Trump will always have Georgia....the system is very different from other places.

Besides what makes you think Sanders voters will vote for Trump...from what I can see a majority will vote for Hilary and minority might go with Jill Stein....But Trump also has a vampire candidate on his side Gary Jhonson...and Gary is way ahead of Stein in sucking votes...specifically from Trump.

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## Nilgiri

Anubis said:


> If you base your predictions on Primary Turnouts I have bad news for you.
> http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...brooks-said-primary-turnout-doesnt-predict-g/



Not talking about the total turnout...but state specific turnout. Can you point me to the correlation between state primary/caucus turnouts (esp the swing states) and the way they ended up voting in the actual election? (I actually have not looked into this matter to be honest and will be interested to see the trends)

That is way more important to me in an analysis than aggregate turnouts since its the electoral college that wins (normally decided by specific swing states) and not overall popular vote (otherwise we woulda had Gore instead of Dubya even with florida going to the latter).



Anubis said:


> Even if the majority of Americans did vote for Trump...the college design could mean Hilary could win...just like Bush V Gore...she doesn't need to rig it...it doesn't matter how many people support Trump in gerogia be it 51% or 100% Trump will always have Georgia....the system is very different from other places.



OK you understand the system good. Same can be said about the massive hillary support base in states she already has comfortably that will not matter much to the electoral college system like you said.

Its why I am interested only in swing states and near swing states where the real battles will take place for the EC.



Anubis said:


> Besides what makes you think Sanders voters will vote for Trump...from what I can see a majority will vote for Hilary and minority might go with Jill Stein....But Trump also has a vampire candidate on his side Gary Jhonson...and Gary is way ahead of Stein in sucking votes...specifically from Trump.



The phenomenon I think will be more at play is the number of Sanders voters that will simply not vote at all. That will play quite a crushing blow to Hillary in several swing states I feel....especially with the hack stuff (perception wise and possibly factual wise too) coming out on how the democrats set the whole system up against Sanders from the get go. There is going to be a backlash, and while it may not be to the level that masses of the "bernie bros" vote trump just to stick it to hillary....I think voter depression among the demographic that really supported Bernie on will be a big factor.

Anyway thats my personal opinion on the matter. I am not going to be following so much on it (from democrat/MSM side of it) till the debates start.....because there is simply too little being put out there that passes my threshold of solid accurate data. My intention here is to cover any neutrals/near-neutrals that may be watching the thread....that there is another side of the story regarding these polls....and they can make up their own minds on the matter.


----------



## CBU-105

*Full Event: Donald Trump Rally in Akron, Ohio (August 22, 2016)*




*
*
powerful speech, Trump is doing two or three a day at times while crooked Hillary has cancelled virtually all campaign rallies till the debates. Have a look at her schedule here: https://hillaryspeeches.com/scheduled-events/ only fundraisers, no campaigning, no press conferences (hasn't had one in 260 days or something) and she flew 20 miles in a jet just to get to a fundraiser. http://www.theamericanmirror.com/rich-hillary-flies-20-miles-private-jet-marthas-vineyard-nantucket/ 

unbelievable.

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## Darmashkian

RabzonKhan said:


> Oh my goodness, poor Donnie, I remember, once upon a time he used to brag so much about his poll numbers, the poor chap must be missing those days.
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton is leading Donald Trump in one new national poll and in two other polls measuring support in two key swing states.
> 
> *An NBC News/SurveyMonkey Weekly Election Tracking poll released Tuesday found that Clinton leads Trump nationally by 9 percentage points -- 50 percent to 41 percent.
> 
> "Clinton is also performing well in the key battleground state of Florida, according to a Monmouth University survey released Tuesday, in which she leads Trump by 9 percentage points. She leads him 48 percent to 39 percent."
> 
> Meanwhile, in Virginia, Clinton continues to maintain a double-digit lead over Trump. A Washington Post poll released Tuesday found that she leads him there by 14 percentage points -- 52 percent to 38 percent among registered voters. Read more
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> It is not an impossible task, if you do a little research you will find that Trump is doing worse than, McCain and Romney, both of them did far better with the women, Hispanics, Blacks, Asians and whites with college degree. And then the man has a big mouth, hardly a week passes that he starts a new controversy and in the end loses more votes.
> 
> 
> 
> Really, nothing is impossible, check this out:
> 
> View attachment 326599
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary has already achieved some success by making these two red states competitive. See how close she is:
> 
> View attachment 326600
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Utah, and you know who agrees with me, Trump:
> 
> 
> "You’ve got to get your people out to vote, and especially in those states where we’re represented," said Trump, referring to religious populations. "[We're] having a tremendous problem in Utah. Utah’s a different place and I don’t know, is anybody here from Utah?... I didn’t think so. We’re having a problem." *Link*
> 
> Trump is facing numerous problems in Utah, first of all, he is not very popular there, in the Republican primaries, Ted Cruz won the state, Kasich came second and Trump was third, winning paltry 14% of the vote.
> 
> Second, Mitt Romney, who beat Obama there by nearly 48 points in 2012 is the leader of “Never Trump” movement, is really going to give hard time to Trump in his native state of Utah.
> 
> Third, Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson (a former Republican governor) is also very aggressively campaigning in the state.
> 
> Fourth, an independent candidate supported by ‘Never Trump”movement, McMullin, a former CIA officer and Republican house chief policy director, who is a Mormon and a native of Utah is also on the ballot there now. Many Mormon do not like Trump’s anti-religious and anti-foreign agenda.
> 
> And in the end of the day a divided Republican Party in the state will benefit Hillary.
> 
> 
> 
> Even if Hillary does not win any of these red states her strategy is still quite successful so far, you see the key point is that all these safe red states have become competitive, ultimately, Trump campaign will have to spend precious resources to defend them, when those resources could be spent on battleground states.
> 
> 
> It’s fine with me, you made an allegation and failed to substantiate it.


Trump screwed up heavily after the DNC.That's why she is doing well now...

At the end of the day,my intuition firmly tells me that even if he loses the swing states,the red states will stand beside him & that by some miracle/good campaigning he will win.

The anti-Hillary gang+ Supreme court judges will get them to him in the end, I feel



RabzonKhan said:


> *Clinton Surges Past 270 Electoral Votes in NBC News Battleground Map*
> 
> by CHUCK TODD, MARK MURRAY and CARRIE DANN
> 
> After releasing our seven battleground-state polls last week -- and seeing several other state surveys -- we've updated our NBC battleground map. The states in Hillary Clinton's column now add up to 288 electoral votes, which exceeds the 270 needed to win the presidency. Donald Trump, meanwhile, is at 174 electoral votes, and an additional 76 are in the Tossup category. Our last map, back in July, showed Clinton with a 255-190 advantage — so Clinton's tally has gone up since the conventions, while Trump's has declined.
> 
> View attachment 326805
> 
> In case you missed them, here are the seven battleground-state polls we released last week. The percentages are among registered voters:
> 
> 
> Colorado: Clinton 46%, Trump 32% (was Clinton 43%, Trump 35% a month ago)
> Florida: Clinton 44%, Trump 39% (was Clinton 44%, Trump 37%)
> Iowa: Clinton 41%, Trump 37% (was Clinton 42%, Trump 39%)
> North Carolina: Clinton 48%, Trump 39% (was Clinton 44%, Trump 38%)
> Ohio: Clinton 43%, Trump 38% (was Clinton 39%, Trump 39%)
> Pennsylvania: Clinton 48%, Trump 37% (was Clinton 45%, Trump 36%)
> Virginia: Clinton 46%, Trump 33% (was Clinton 44%, Trump 35%)
> 
> The polls also revealed four consistent gaps between Clinton and Trump -- the Education Gap (between Clinton's support among whites with college degrees and Trump's support among whites without), the Geographical Gap (Clinton ahead in the cities and suburbs, Trump ahead in the rural areas), the Gender Gap (Clinton leading among women by a bigger margin than Trump leading among men), and the Party Unity Gap (with Democrats backing Clinton by a larger margin than Republicans being behind Trump). *Read more*


Hmm.... I think they are being too optimistic with Georgia..
According to me:-

I believe the swing states in this elections are going to be:-
North carolina,Virginia,Florida,Iowa,Pennsylvania,New Hampshire,Nevada,Ohio & that 1 seat in Maine.

Hilllary's best case scenario:-
All swing states+Georgia+Arizona+possibly that 1 seat in nebraska

Trump's best case scenario:-
All swing states except Nevada & Colorado(Hispanic+moderate vote will go against him) & Virginia(Tim kaine will get this)
Michigan & Wisconsin could be won by a narrow margin.

& if Trump plays the anti-establishment rebel card, he could even get Minnesota!! Dont forget they voted for jesse ventura

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am sure the Repubs will retain the house of representatives by a good margin & the Senate by a small margin.

I think Mark kirk will lose along with Kelly ayotte.

But the others could win. Mccain could just pull it through by playing Obamacare which has increased premium costs in healthcare insurance(I saw some ads & polls which indicated this).

Rubio & the senators from Pennsylvania & Ohio could make it too.

Colorado is going Democratic.



LA se Karachi said:


> It's sad isn't it? Two of the most disliked Presidential candidates are running against each other this year:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...or-both-trump-and-clinton-is-record-breaking/
> 
> _
> *And yet both of their supporters seem to brag about them. One can't help but chuckle...*
> 
> Both parties voted for the least likable and least electable candidates that were running (although Sanders did win something like 45% of elected delegates) --- with turnout below 30% among all voters. Turnout in the general election will likely be low this year as a result. Hopefully, next time both parties won't choose terrible nominees. One can only hope that more people will turnout to vote in the primaries.


A big LOL at the Bolded part.

It's sad when you have to choose between 2 hated people & not 2 good popular people

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## Nilgiri

I wish them the best of luck:


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## CBU-105

Nilgiri said:


> I wish them the best of luck:


something very fishy went down there, did you notice how he was all frowning all through the convention and how much he was sweating when he endorsed her ? Its possible that they either shook him up gangster style, threatened his family or blackmailed him something.

I'll check this Molyneux vid later but nothing will come out of any lawsuit, the devil in the pantsuit operates above the law. Would be nice to see them #LockHerUp though.

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## Nilgiri

CBU-105 said:


> something very fishy went down there, did you notice how he was all frowning all through the convention and how much he was sweating when he endorsed her ? Its possible that they either shook him up gangster style, threatened his family or blackmailed him something.
> 
> I'll check this Molyneux vid later but nothing will come out of any lawsuit, the devil in the pantsuit operates above the law. Would be nice to see them #LockHerUp though.



Its the publicity that such a class action lawsuit receives that matters more than the result which like you said will probably fail for the time being with democrats in power.

And yes the body language from Sanders was quite telling.

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## CBU-105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/767753101315018752

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## Nilgiri

CBU-105 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/767753101315018752



Lets see how she holds up in the debates. Trump has to go in for the kill decisively.


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## CBU-105

Nilgiri said:


> Lets see how she holds up in the debates. Trump has to go in for the kill decisively.


They'll probably prop her up with some drugs to get through it, btw, they've got rid of the big black handler guy who is walking with her in the pic who some speculated was also walking around with a diazepam pen and who also once rushed onstage to comfort her after a few protesters turned up at one of her 200 people rallies. 






I don't care if they call it insane right wing conspiracies but the evidence is all there for anyone to see for themselves, the seizure and shock, the crazy person reaction to the baloons at the DNC, the handler, no press conferences or rallies, flying 20 miles in a jet.. #SickHillary

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## CBU-105

Trump is killing it with these teleprompter speeches.

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## RabzonKhan

Anyone interested in Hillary’s health, enjoy this:


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## RabzonKhan

CBU-105 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/767753101315018752


The picture you posted is from New York Pride Parade 2016, you seem like a good person don’t let the trailer trash fool you the lowlifes are expert in this kind of cheap propaganda.

Here are Hillary’s pictures from the same parade, does she looks sick?


----------



## RabzonKhan

Darmashkian said:


> Trump screwed up heavily after the DNC.That's why she is doing well now...
> 
> At the end of the day,my intuition firmly tells me that even if he loses the swing states,the red states will stand beside him & that by some miracle/good campaigning he will win.
> 
> The anti-Hillary gang+ Supreme court judges will get them to him in the end, I feel


My friend, even if he wins all the red states he will be still shot of at least 90 electoral votes, Trump will have to win several swing states to get the 270 magic number.




> Hmm.... I think they are being too optimistic with Georgia..
> According to me:-
> 
> I believe the swing states in this elections are going to be:-
> North carolina,Virginia,Florida,Iowa,Pennsylvania,New Hampshire,Nevada,Ohio & that 1 seat in Maine.


It’s interesting that you are placing North Carolina in swing states, no doubt North Carolina is in play, but the fact is it is a red state and the Republicans have won in eight of the last nine elections. On the other hand, I agree with you on the other states that you mentioned.



@CBU-105, you raise some interesting points, I’ll definitely response tomorrow after watching Trumps terrorism/Isis policy speech that he gave on August 15.

Cheers

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## Darmashkian

RabzonKhan said:


> My friend, even if he wins all the red states he will be still shot of at least 90 electoral votes, Trump will have to win several swing states to get the 270 magic number.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s interesting that you are placing North Carolina in swing states, no doubt North Carolina is in play, but the fact is it is a red state and the Republicans have won in eight of the last nine elections. On the other hand, I agree with you on the other states that you mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> @CBU-105, you raise some interesting points, I’ll definitely response tomorrow after watching Trumps terrorism/Isis policy speech that he gave on August 15.
> 
> Cheers


North Carolina could go to Obama when it was him vs Mccain.

I believe that if the Libertarians take away some moderate anti trump republican votes & he continues to screw up.Hillary could win it.

Hmmm... I believe Trump has a small but good chance at winning. He is unlike anything I have seen till now in American/conventional electoral politics. He seems to defy many of the rules & yet he has made it so far & could even win!!

I believe we must not underestimate the Anger against the "Establishment" among the average American regardless of who wins. If this anger is forgotten & sidelined after this election,it will only become worse & stronger.

What do you think of the Swing seats in the Senate?



Nilgiri said:


> Lets see how she holds up in the debates. Trump has to go in for the kill decisively.


Trump is pretty quick at thinking on his feet(remember the Rosie O donnel incident) =D; unlike Hillary. This will help him deal with any unlikely questions. He knows how to answer a question & yet divert it.

He has to prepare well on his facts & positions & fail to make any U-turns or basic mistakes(NATO is North American Treaty org. etc) if he wants to do well. He has to be decent & good throughout the debate & not carry out any unnecessary attacks or abuses to promote a "Presidential side" of him. 
Though I believe he must abuse in anger/frustration & show some charisma/theatrics to show everyone how natural he is & that he has no artificial personality & hasn't become like the others.

He must have some ideas & plans which work when it comes to the Economy & Domestic/social issues & be prepared for long debates on them.

These can help him get a lot of Independent votes.

He can afford to screw up on Foreign Policy except Iran,ISIS & terrorism... Nobody cares about the other parts except the 3 I mentioned. Those who care a lot about them have made their minds on not voting for him or will go for HIllary

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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> The picture you posted is from New York Pride Parade 2016, you seem like a good person don’t let the trailer trash fool you the lowlifes are expert in this kind of cheap propaganda.
> 
> Here are Hillary’s pictures from the same parade, does she looks sick?





RabzonKhan said:


> Anyone interested in Hillary’s health, enjoy this:


or the daily show or John Stewart and Bill Maher and just about every other main stream leftist comedy or news show because they are fair and objective in covering Trump or anything his campaign are saying ? Not saying there aren't any loons on the right, there are plenty, but some of the concerns they have raised about Hillary's health are completely valid.

The involuntary head jerk movement, the reaction to the balloons, how does one explain those ? they're just trying to laugh it all off as some insane right wing conspiracy but anyone with a pair of functioning brain cells will view them as highly suspicious. Or, what about her cancelling all her campaign events till at least after the debates, only fundraisers, no meeting the public to get her message out, no press conference in 260+ days. All she ever does is these highly scripted tv appearances or small phone interviews twice a week and is nowhere to be seen or heard from otherwise.




RabzonKhan said:


> @CBU-105, you raise some interesting points, I’ll definitely response tomorrow after watching Trumps terrorism/Isis policy speech that he gave on August 15.
> 
> Cheers


cool, check out some of the other speeches he's given lately too, please don't rely just on the left mainstream media and comedy shows to get your Trump news, watch what he's actually talking about and form your own opinion.

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## Nilgiri

CBU-105 said:


> The involuntary head jerk movement,


----------



## CBU-105

Nilgiri said:


>


lmao check it out, I think I posted it a page or so back. Vox or some similar website was trying to debunk it saying they looped a video and edited it but it never happened. 

it did happen, and she totally spazzed out, here is a looped gif.

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## CBU-105

FULL EVENT: Donald Trump Holds Rally in Jackson, MS 8/24/16 





good rally, he even bought out Nigel Farage for a bit*




*

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## Nilgiri




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## CBU-105

Trump destroys crooked Hillary's racist smear attempt

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## CBU-105

scared of kids on twitter shit-posting silly racist memes, crooked hillary drew a really small crowd for her anti _alt-right _speech.







lol

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## anon45

Lol despite the desperate spin going on here, Hillary is killing Trump in the polls. Leading by double digits!

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/clinton-leads-trump-by-10-in-national-poll-227406

If crowded speeches were any indicator, Bernie would have won. They simply aren't an indicator of votes.

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## RabzonKhan

Bravo, so far, Hillary’s best speech! I agree with every word she said in her speech, she rightfully accused Donnie of mainstreaming the racist fringe, running a campaign based on hatred and fear, using dog whistle language and his disregard for the values that make our country great is profoundly dangerous. 

Here are some of the best parts of the speech:







"From the start, Donald Trump has built his campaign on prejudice and paranoia.

He’s taking hate groups mainstream and helping a radical fringe take over one of America’s two major political parties."

*"A man with a long history of racial discrimination, who traffics in dark conspiracy theories drawn from the pages of supermarket tabloids and the far reaches of the internet, should never run our government or command our military."*

*"If he doesn’t respect all Americans, he can’t serve all Americans!"
*
"Now, I know some people still want to give Trump the benefit of the doubt.

They hope that he will eventually reinvent himself – that there’s a kinder, gentler, more responsible Donald Trump waiting in the wings somewhere.

After all, it’s hard to believe anyone – let alone a nominee for President of the United States – could really believe all the things he says.

*But the hard truth is, there’s no other Donald Trump. This is it.*

Maya Angelou once said: "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

*"When Trump was getting his start in business, he was sued by the Justice Department for refusing to rent apartments to black and Latino tenants.

Three years later, the Justice Department took Trump back to court because he hadn’t changed.

The pattern continued through the decades.

State regulators fined one of Trump’s casinos for repeatedly removing black dealers from the floor. No wonder the turn-over rate for his minority employees was way above average."
*
"He promoted the racist lie that President Obama isn’t really an American citizen – part of a sustained effort to delegitimize America’s first black President."

"In 2015, Trump launched his own campaign for President with another racist lie. He described Mexican immigrants as rapists and criminals."

"We all remember when Trump said a distinguished federal judge born in Indiana couldn’t be trusted to do his job because, quote, "He’s a Mexican."

Think about that.

*The man who today is the standard bearer of the Republican Party said a federal judge was incapable of doing his job solely because of his heritage."*

*Even the Republican Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, described that as "the textbook definition of a racist comment."

"This is someone who retweets white supremacists online, like the user who goes by the name "white-genocide-TM." 

"His campaign famously posted an anti-Semitic image – a Star of David imposed over a sea of dollar bills – that first appeared on a white supremacist website.

The Trump campaign also selected a prominent white nationalist leader as a delegate in California. They only dropped him under pressure."
*
*"Through it all, he has continued pushing discredited conspiracy theories with racist undertones.*

*Trump said thousands of American Muslims in New Jersey cheered the 9/11 attacks. They didn’t."*

*"His latest paranoid fever dream is about my health. All I can say is, Donald, dream on." 

"It’s what happens when you listen to the radio host Alex Jones, who claims that 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombings were inside jobs. He said the victims of the Sandy Hook massacre were child actors and no one was actually killed there.

Trump didn’t challenge those lies. He went on Jones’ show and said: "Your reputation is amazing. I will not let you down."

This man wants to be President of the United States."
*
"In times of crisis, our country depends on steady leadership… clear thinking… and calm judgment… because one wrong move can mean the difference between life and death.

The last thing we need in the Situation Room is a loose cannon who can’t tell the difference between fact and fiction, and who buys so easily into racially-tinged rumors.

Someone detached from reality should never be in charge of making decisions that are as real as they come.

It’s another reason why Donald Trump is simply temperamentally unfit to be President of the United States."

"And he’d ban Muslims around the world – 1.5 billion men, women, and children –from entering our country just because of their religion.

Think about that for a minute. How would it actually work? People landing in U.S. airports would line up to get their passports stamped, just like they do now.

But in Trump’s America, when they step up to the counter, the immigration officer would ask every single person, "What is your religion?"

And then what?

What if someone says, "I’m a Christian," but the agent doesn’t believe them.

Do they have to prove it? How would they do that?"

"Under Donald Trump, America would distinguish itself as the only country in the world to impose a religious test at the border.

Come to think of it, there actually may be one place that does that. It’s the so-called Islamic State. The territory ISIS controls. It would be a cruel irony if America followed its lead."

"Trump likes to say he only hires the "best people." But he’s had to fire so many campaign managers it’s like an episode of the Apprentice.

The latest shake-up was designed to – quote – "Let Trump be Trump." To do that, he hired Stephen Bannon, the head of a right-wing website called Breitbart.com, as campaign CEO.

To give you a flavor of his work, here are a few headlines they’ve published:

"Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy."

"Would You Rather Your Child Had Feminism or Cancer?"

*"According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups, Breitbart embraces "ideas on the extremist fringe of the conservative right. Racist ideas.

Race-baiting ideas. Anti-Muslim and anti-Immigrant ideas –– all key tenets making up an emerging racist ideology known as the ‘Alt-Right.’"
*
*"The de facto merger between Breitbart and the Trump Campaign represents a landmark achievement for the "Alt-Right." A fringe element has effectively taken over the Republican Party."
*
He talks casually of abandoning our NATO allies, recognizing Russia’s annexation of Crimea, and of giving the Kremlin a free hand in Eastern Europe more generally.

American presidents from Truman to Reagan have rejected the kind of approach Trump is taking on Russia.

*"This is a moment of reckoning for every Republican dismayed that the Party of Lincoln has become the Party of Trump. It’s a moment of reckoning for all of us who love our country and believe that America is better than this.

Twenty years ago, when Bob Dole accepted the Republican nomination, he pointed to the exits and told any racists in the Party to get out.

The week after 9/11, George W. Bush went to a mosque and declared for everyone to hear that Muslims "love America just as much as I do."

In 2008, John McCain told his own supporters they were wrong about the man he was trying to defeat. Senator McCain made sure they knew – Barack Obama is an American citizen and "a decent person."

We need that kind of leadership again."*





*

*

*
*

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## Nilgiri

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2016...slim-lead-over-Hillary-Clinton/4311472221679/

*UPI/CVoter poll: Donald Trump maintains slim lead over Hillary Clinton*

The online poll shows Trump with 48.52 percent to Clinton's 47.73 percent after both candidates edged up slightly overnight. Correspondingly, the percentage of "other" voters, defined as anyone who did not select Trump or Clinton, fell to its lowest level to date, 3.74 percent.

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## Pakistan First

May God bless America. Because now those blessings are needed the most.

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## Anubis

anon45 said:


> Lol despite the desperate spin going on here, Hillary is killing Trump in the polls. Leading by double digits!
> 
> http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/clinton-leads-trump-by-10-in-national-poll-227406
> 
> If crowded speeches were any indicator, Bernie would have won. They simply aren't an indicator of votes.


Most of the Trump supporters here are neither Americans...nor have the slightest clue about how American politics works.

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## CBU-105

Anubis said:


> Most of the Trump supporters here are neither Americans...nor have the slightest clue about how American politics works.


if anything, non American watchers are going to view and call it neutrally, sometimes you have to zoom out to get a better picture etc. 

and American presidential politics are not that hard to understand at all.

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## JanjaWeed

Nilgiri said:


>


It will be released just before the 3rd presidential tv debate, normally a game changer in American elections. Interesting times ahead...especially the month of October. Opinion polls right now holds little meaning... Real stuff starts once the debates kicks in!

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## RabzonKhan

The fourth largest, the 1.4 million member Teamsters union unanimously endorsed Hillary, the other three giants, National Education Association (almost 3 million members), AFSCME (1.6 million) Service Employees International Union (1.5 million), have already endorsed her. She was also endorsed by the American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO), which is a national trade union center and the largest federation of unions in the United State, it has 12 million active and retired members.



*Teamsters Endorse Hillary Clinton for President*




*Clinton Will Be a Strong Voice for Working Families
*
(WASHINGTON) – Today, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters announced its endorsement of Hillary Clinton for president. The Teamsters General Executive Board unanimously voted to endorse the former senator and secretary of state.

“We are proud to endorse Hillary Clinton for President of the United States,” said Teamsters General President James P. Hoffa. “She is the right candidate for the middle class and working men and women across the country. She will stand strong for the workers of America by fighting to reject job-killing trade deals, enforcing labor laws and working to provide retirement security for millions of people who have sacrificed so much for the chance to retire with dignity.

“The Oval Office needs to be occupied by a serious candidate who understands what it means to govern responsibly,” Hoffa said. “Donald Trump supports national right-to-work laws that are proven to weaken the middle class and has a long track record of shipping jobs out of the country as a businessman. He is no friend to working Americans.”

Founded in 1903, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters represents 1.4 million hardworking men and women throughout the United States, Canada and Puerto Rico. For more information, please visit





Looks like she got the scare of her life, maybe Donnie didn’t do his make up.


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## Anubis

CBU-105 said:


> if anything, non American watchers are going to view and call it neutrally, sometimes you have to zoom out to get a better picture etc.
> 
> and American presidential politics are not that hard to understand at all.


No they aren't...They don't live here...they don't know about popular opinion among people....they have very limited ideas on the issues that effect the people...you can't "call" an election neutrally...supporting one candidate over another isn't calling it...and I have already had the conversation with your friend...he thinks if Trump looses it will mean Hilary has rigged the election...that shows a very deep lack of understanding of how the electoral system of the US works...and you giving into rally effect shows how little you know how American politics works.....it has been historically proven that rally turnout is never indicative of popular votes...and it has also been proven that popular vote does not guarantee a election....the college determines the final verdict.






31% of 2016 voters are ethnic minorities.


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## anon45

a note on the accusation of 'rigged' national elections, It betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of how our elections work. They are run by each individual state and community.


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## CBU-105

Anubis said:


> No they aren't...They don't live here...they don't know about popular opinion among people....they have very limited ideas on the issues that effect the people...


and the flipside, that because (the domestic) issues do not effect them, they are far more likely to be non-partisan. 



Anubis said:


> you can't "call" an election neutrally...supporting one candidate over another isn't calling it...


I like Trump, I'm not pretending to be neutral but there is clearly a bias in the way the US media is covering it with virtually all major tv networks and publications.



Anubis said:


> he thinks if Trump looses it will mean Hilary has rigged the election...that shows a very deep lack of understanding of how the electoral system of the US works....


well argue that with him, them.

I have never posted anything about any rigged elections here.



Anubis said:


> and you giving into rally effect shows how little you know how American politics works.....it has been historically proven that rally turnout is never indicative of popular votes...


sure, given Bernie (there is some talk of fraud there) and other past candidates who held big rallies but still lost, the crowds might not mean much after all, but you still have to admit the scale of those gatherings is quite impressive, Obamaesque even. He's beaten ZZ Top and Elton John etc for attendance records at some of those venues lol 




Anubis said:


> ..and it has also been proven that popular vote does not guarantee a election....the college determines the final verdict.


I know, happened twice earlier, and it is a much harder path for a gop guy, but this race is so much fun.. 2 more months of shit-slinging e-mail leaking gossipmongering dirty tricks fun

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## Anubis

CBU-105 said:


> and the flipside, that because (the domestic) issues do not effect them, they are far more likely to be non-partisan.
> 
> 
> I like Trump, I'm not pretending to be neutral but there is clearly a bias in the way the US media is covering it with virtually all major tv networks and publications.
> 
> 
> well argue that with him, them.
> 
> I have never posted anything about any rigged elections here.
> 
> 
> sure, given Bernie (there is some talk of fraud there) and other past candidates who held big rallies but still lost, the crowds might not mean much after all, but you still have to admit the scale of those gatherings is quite impressive, Obamaesque even. He's beaten ZZ Top and Elton John etc for attendance records at some of those venues lol
> 
> 
> 
> I know, happened twice earlier, and it is a much harder path for a gop guy, but this race is so much fun.. 2 more months of shit-slinging e-mail leaking gossipmongering dirty tricks fun



Umm aren't domestic issues a key factor in an election?? US media has something for everyone...there are enough pro-Trump outlets...Fox itself is a bigger entity than any main stream media....so the bias of msm against Trump is balanced out by the bias of Fox and other right wing media against Hilary...There was no fraud against Bernie...the only thing the email shows is that the Dems(Schultz and some key members) WANTED(no evidence of any action taken against Bernie) Hilary to win(Duh!!! Bernie isn't even a proper Democrat...he is a life long independent)...why is anyone surprised by this?? The republicans have been pretty open about not wanting Trump to win...it is pretty natural.
Trump isn't cut out to be president...just look at the Trump Pence 60 minute interview....it was cringe worthy.



anon45 said:


> a note on the accusation of 'rigged' national elections, It betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of how our elections work. They are run by each individual state and community.


Wall street bilderberg bohemian grove 9/11 rothschild koch brothers area 51 reptilians elites moon landing fluoride in water vaccination muslim brotherhood cia...beat that argument with your "logic" and "rational thought"...huh!

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## CBU-105

Anubis said:


> Umm aren't domestic issues a key factor in an election??


_the_ key factor in most national elections, but US foreign policy effects virtually everyone else, which is why the whole world is watching.



Anubis said:


> ...just look at the Trump Pence 60 minute interview....it was cringe worthy.

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## RabzonKhan

No wonder more than 90% African-Americans are supporting Hillary.





*THE AD* It opens with white text set against a black backdrop: “Donald Trump’s Message to the African-American Community.” Mr. Trump is then shown, tieless in a suit and a white “Make America Great Again Hat,” repeating his “What do you have to lose?” line and depicting a grim state of life for African-Americans: “You’re living in poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs.”

That is followed by a clip of Mr. Trump at a rally in June, shouting, “There’s my African-American!”; scenes of violence against African-American protesters at his rallies; and a CNN report stating that Trump Management was charged in the 1970s with housing discrimination against African-Americans. The ad slowly builds to a one-word conclusion to Mr. Trump’s repeated question: “What the hell do you have to lose?” White text on black background answers: “Everything.”





POLL CHART
*2016 General Election: Trump vs. Clinton*
*
Currently tracking 262 polls from 38 pollsters

This chart combines the latest opinion polls into trendlines using a poll-tracking model and is updated whenever a new poll is released.*

Updated about 1 hour ago


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## CBU-105

*Full Speech: Donald Trump Speaks at 'Roast and Ride' Event in Des Moines, IA 8/27/16*

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## CorporateAffairs

TRUMP will trounce Hillary in November.
He's picking up fast!


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## Nilgiri



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## RabzonKhan

Darmashkian said:


> North Carolina could go to Obama when it was him vs Mccain.
> 
> I believe that if the Libertarians take away some moderate anti trump republican votes & he continues to screw up.Hillary could win it.


Sorry for the late reply, you are right, Gary Johnson has more appeal to Republicans than to the Democrats, on the other hand, Jill Stein is attracting more Democrats and especially Bernie supporters who have refused to support Hillary.

I also think Johnson is going to play the spoiler for Trump in many other battleground states.




> Hmmm... I believe Trump has a small but good chance at winning. He is unlike anything I have seen till now in American/conventional electoral politics. He seems to defy many of the rules & yet he has made it so far & could even win!!


Yes, the angry nasty man he played in the Republican primaries certainly worked for him, but now in the general election he’s paying a price for that bad behavior, and his poll numbers reflect that. To win the elections he must increase his support among women, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians and millennials.




> I believe we must not underestimate the Anger against the "Establishment" among the average American regardless of who wins. If this anger is forgotten & sidelined after this election,it will only become worse & stronger.


Totally agree with you on this one, some of the anger is absolutely justified and must be addressed.



> What do you think of the Swing seats in the Senate?


Tell you the truth I really don’t have the time.

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## Nilgiri




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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/770432675672887296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/769901439841865728

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## Darmashkian

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...fy-hillary-presidency-its-hard-know-what-will

Even the traditionally 'establishment' Wall Street Journal[http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-u-s-department-of-clinton-1472167746] is waking up to the utter incredulity of an* American media (and citizenry) which appears capable of cognitive dissonance on an epic scale when it comes to Hillary Clinton*. As Kimberly Strassel explains the latest emails show that State and the foundation were one seamless entity.





*This is the week that the steady drip, drip, drip of details about Hillary Clinton’s server turned into a waterfall. *This is the week that we finally learned why Mrs. Clinton used a private communications setup, and what it hid. This is the week, in short, that we found out that the infamous server was designed to hide that Mrs. Clinton for three years served as the U.S. Secretary of the Clinton Foundation.

In March this column argued that while Mrs. Clinton’s mishandling of classified information was important, it missed the bigger point. _*The Democratic nominee obviously didn’t set up her server with the express purpose of exposing national secrets—that was incidental. She set up the server to keep secret the details of the Clintons’ private life—a life built around an elaborate and sweeping money-raising and self-promoting entity known as the Clinton Foundation.*_

Had Secretary Clinton kept the foundation at arm’s length while in office—as obvious ethical standards would have dictated—there would never have been any need for a private server, or even private email. The vast majority of her electronic communications would have related to her job at the State Department, with maybe that occasional yoga schedule. And those Freedom of Information Act officers would have had little difficulty—when later going through a state.gov email—screening out the clearly “personal” before making her records public. This is how it works for everybody else.

*Mrs. Clinton’s problem—as we now know from this week’s release of emails from Huma Abedin’s private Clinton-server account—was that there was no divide between public and private. *Mrs. Clinton’s State Department and her family foundation were one seamless entity—employing the same people, comparing schedules, mixing foundation donors with State supplicants. This is why she maintained a secret server, and why she deleted 15,000 emails that should have been turned over to the government.

Most of the focus on this week’s Abedin emails has centered on the disturbing examples of Clinton Foundation executive Doug Band negotiating State favors for foundation donors. But equally instructive in the 725 pages released by Judicial Watch is the frequency and banality of most of the email interaction. Mr. Band asks if Hillary’s doing this conference, or having that meeting, and when she’s going to Brazil. Ms. Abedin responds that she’s working on it, or will get this or that answer. _*These aren’t the emails of mere casual acquaintances; they don’t even bother with salutations or signoffs. These are the emails of two people engaged in the same purpose—serving the State-Clinton Foundation nexus.*_

*The other undernoted but important revelation is that the media has been looking in the wrong place.* The focus is on Mrs. Clinton’s missing emails, and no doubt those 15,000 FBI-recovered texts contain nuggets. Then again, Mrs. Clinton was a busy woman, and most of the details of her daily State/foundation life would have been handled by trusted aides. This is why they, too, had private email. Top marks to Judicial Watch for pursuing Ms. Abedin’s file from the start. A new urgency needs to go into seeing similar emails of former Clinton Chief of Staff Cheryl Mills.

*Mostly, we learned this week that Mrs. Clinton’s foundation issue goes far beyond the “appearance” of a conflict of interest. This is straight-up pay to play. *When Mr. Band sends an email demanding a Hillary meeting with the crown prince of Bahrain and notes that he’s a “good friend of ours,” what Mr. Band means is that the crown prince had contributed millions to a Clinton Global Initiative scholarship program, and therefore has bought face time. It doesn’t get more clear-cut, folks.

That’s highlighted by the Associated Press’s extraordinary finding this week that *of the 154 outside people Mrs. Clinton met with in the first years of her tenure, more than half were Clinton Foundation donors*. Clinton apologists, like Vox’s Matthew Yglesias, are claiming that statistic is overblown, because the 154 doesn’t include thousands of meetings held with foreign diplomats and U.S. officials.

Nice try. As the nation’s top diplomat, Mrs. Clinton was obliged to meet with diplomats and officials—not with others. Only a blessed few outsiders scored meetings with the harried secretary of state and, surprise, most of the blessed were Clinton Foundation donors.

Mrs. Clinton’s only whisper of grace is that it remains (as it always does in potential cases of corruption) hard to connect the dots.* There are “quids” (foundation donations) and “quos” (Bahrain arms deals) all over the place, but no precise evidence of “pros.” *Count on the Clinton menagerie to dwell in that sliver of a refuge.

_*But does it even matter?*_ What we discovered this week is that one of the nation’s top officials created a private server that housed proof that she continued a secret, ongoing entwinement with her family foundation - despite ethics agreements - and that she destroyed public records. _*If that alone doesn’t disqualify her for the presidency, it’s hard to know what would.*_



RabzonKhan said:


> Sorry for the late reply, you are right, Gary Johnson has more appeal to Republicans than to the Democrats, on the other hand, Jill Stein is attracting more Democrats and especially Bernie supporters who have refused to support Hillary.
> 
> I also think Johnson is going to play the spoiler for Trump in many other battleground states.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the angry nasty man he played in the Republican primaries certainly worked for him, but now in the general election he’s paying a price for that bad behavior, and his poll numbers reflect that. To win the elections he must increase his support among women, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians and millennials.


Johnson will take votes from Republicans & Moderate/Conservative Democrats.But I doubt he could actually cause Trump to lose a state as of now.

If Hillary isn't leftist enough,those enthusiastic bernie supporters who should be out there campaigning for her will go for Jill Stein.

Those no.s will go up in time. About 20% of Hispanics support him in some polls.

But I don't see those no.s going up by any big margin. The Mexican Hispanic turnout will be very High this time.

Some Black working class voters will definitely support Trump..
Asian vote is rather meaningless in many battleground states(Except Virginia,Pennsylvania & possibly NC,New Hampshire & Minnesota).But I expect him to win some 20-30% votes from them as every Republican Nominee has.

I don't think Millennial turn out will be high,there is nothing to enthuse them in both candidates,unlike Obama who enthused both blacks & Millennials.

He's not gonna make much headway among these guys anyway. There are too many who are idealistic,liberal & impractical.Their large support for the Socialist who would screw their finances+the left-liberal stuff the ones in the college carry out proves it.

Some of these Einsteins even think Bernie isn't liberal enough -_- & even call Obama a Moderate conservative




RabzonKhan said:


> Totally agree with you on this one, some of the anger is absolutely justified and must be addressed.
> 
> 
> Tell you the truth I really don’t have the time.



I don't see Hillary doing anything to abate this anger other than give speeches & talk about how she as a women understands it... But she will not convert words into action

She can be called the establishment candidate of the Dems+Liberals,the favored one of many in the Republican establishment.

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## CBU-105

*Full Event: Huge Donald Trump Rally in Everett, WA 8/30/16 




*





Trump speaks at 1:37:20.

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## Darmashkian

Donald trump is going to Mexico!!!!@

He will meet and talk wth their president!! And then they will have a press conference.

This is just one day before he will give a speech on his immigration policy in Arizona!

This is VERY Interesting @Abingdonboy @jha


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## jha

Darmashkian said:


> Donald trump is going to Mexico!!!!@
> 
> He will meet and talk wth their president!! And then they will have a press conference.
> 
> This is just one day before he will give a speech on his immigration policy in Arizona!
> 
> This is VERY Interesting @Abingdonboy @jha



Very Risky move.


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## Gandhi G in da house

Almost all polls are showing Hillary winning comfortably. It's not even close.


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## CBU-105

the 'alt-right'

I've been following this phenomenon online for a while, and it has been largely an online thing with the funny pepe frog _spicy _memes etc until crooked Hillary's speech put them in the international spotlight... and with whites all set to be a minority in a decade and a bit, some are alarmed by it, but it would be a mistake to dismiss all those people as racist nazis or whatever.

These are, after all, huge demographic changes that affect societies in profound ways, and this US election has massive racial undertones and the results will have consequences.

interesting discussion here:





try not to be triggered, people, but given that they will be a statistical minority in the US soon, white identitarian politics is probably here to stay, some more prominent 'alt-right'/white nationalists here:











but they have no one unifying ideology, for now it remains largely an online movement, a lot of people would be fired and lose their jobs etc if they endorsed anything of the sort.



/canofworms


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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> Even if Hillary does not win any of these red states her strategy is still quite successful so far, you see the key point is that all these safe red states have become competitive, *ultimately, Trump campaign will have to spend precious resources to defend them, when those resources could be spent on battleground states*.


Darmashkian, told you, the strategy is working:


*Clinton Forces Trump to Defend Key Red States*
August 31, 2016By Taegan Goddard

Politico: “After weeks of Brooklyn telegraphing a competitive race in traditionally red states and making public moves that look like initial investments — boosting staff, holding fundraisers, and promising more investments — Trump is now campaigning in Arizona, which has voted Republican in 15 of the last 16 elections, while his running mate goes to Georgia, a state that’s gone red in seven of the last eight cycles.”

“That’s a deployment of precious resources away from swing states that Trump must win to make the Electoral College math work in his favor.” *Link*



nick_indian said:


> Almost all polls are showing Hillary winning comfortably. It's not even close.


But all polls that show Trump is losing our fake, didn’t you know that? 



CBU-105 said:


> *Full Event: Huge Donald Trump Rally in Everett, WA 8/30/16
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump speaks at 1:37:20.


He can have as many rallies he wants, but we are winning the state.

Bty, I live here.


"The latest survey by independent pollster Stuart Elway was released Monday. It shows Democratic presidential nominee *Hillary Clinton with a double digit lead over Republican Donald Trump in Washington, 43 percent to 24 percent. *Libertarian Gary Johnson received 7 percent and Green Party Candidate Jill Stein got 4 percent. Sixteen percent of Washington voters said they were undecided and six percent said they may not vote for president at all." *Link*



Darmashkian said:


> Donald trump is going to Mexico!!!!@
> 
> He will meet and talk wth their president!! And then they will have a press conference.
> 
> This is just one day before he will give a speech on his immigration policy in Arizona!
> 
> This is VERY Interesting @Abingdonboy @jha


Get ready for another flip-flop, I guess.



Darmashkian said:


> I don't see Hillary doing anything to abate this anger other than give speeches & talk about how she as a women understands it... But she will not convert words into action
> 
> She can be called the establishment candidate of the Dems+Liberals,the favored one of many in the Republican establishment.


Well, I can’t read her mind, but I believe she has addressed many of the issues in her economic plan, she supports $15 minimum pay, she has also said that she will only sign trade agreements that will be good for the US economy, and supports financing of higher education, all three key demands of Bernie Sanders and his supporters, on the other hand, I don’t think she can satisfy all of Trumps supporters and especially the Alt-right angry racists.


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## Nilgiri

One can imagine how truly bad it is, when even the MSM and its biased/rigged polls is unable to hide anymore:

https://gma.yahoo.com/poll-clinton-unpopularity-high-par-trump-112105093--abc-news-topstories.html

*Poll: Clinton Unpopularity at New High, *


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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> He can have as many rallies he wants, but we are winning the state.
> 
> Bty, I live here.


I know, but its still fun to see him campaign in these deep blue states and hold huge rallies. He's very unconventional, nobody's ever seen anything like him.

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## CBU-105

Trump tweet from 2013


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/308365908420751360

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## RabzonKhan

Great news, two Generals will be voting for Hillary Clinton.


*Clinton continues to eat Republicans’ lunch on foreign policy*

By Jennifer Rubin September 1

While Donald Trump sends millions of Americans fleeing the GOP, Hillary Clinton scoops up more endorsements of the type Republican nominees usually enjoy. The Clinton camp announced endorsements from two retired four-star generals, Bob Sennewald (former commanding general, U.S. Army Forces Command) and David Maddox (former commander in chief of the U.S. Army in Europe). In a joint statement they said, “Having each served over 34 years and retired as an Army 4-star general, we each have worked closely with America’s strongest allies, both in NATO and throughout Asia.” They explained, “Our votes have always been private, and neither of us has ever previously lent his name or voice to a presidential candidate.” They nevertheless announced, “Having studied what is at stake for this country and the alternatives we have now, we see only one viable leader, and will be voting this November for Secretary Hillary Clinton.”

The endorsements follow Clinton’s hawkish speech at the American Legion yesterday and Trump’s confusing and meek appearance in Mexico. *Read more*


*


Top Jeb Bush donor says he's with Clinton*

By Nolan D. McCaskill 09/01/16

Donald Trump is unqualified for the presidency, Mike Fernandez, a top Jeb Bush and Rick Scott donor, said Thursday, announcing that he’ll be voting across party lines for Hillary Clinton in November.

Fernandez identified himself as “a firm believer in the fundamental tenets of the Republican Party” and as someone who takes his civic responsibilities seriously before slamming the GOP’s standard-bearer.

“Donald Trump is neither representative of our values nor qualified to lead the nation,” he wrote in an op-ed published Thursday in The Miami Herald.

Republicans can no longer “seek solace in wishful thinking or the illusion that this is just an election cycle and that by divine intervention all will be better after we vote” or “hide behind the excuse that party loyalty is paramount, and that a bad candidate of our own is always better than any candidate of theirs,” he cautioned, warning that Trump is capable of single-handedly leading America “off the precipice.”

*“I have watched this election unfold, from that first press conference where the population of an entire country was cast as insulting to our core. This led to a neverending spiral of vulgarity, intellectual dishonesty, invective, abuse, misogyny, racism, intolerance, bullying, ignorance and downright cruelty,” he said. “The fact that the person unleashing these forces, reflecting beliefs and biases that we had long ago identified as at odds with the Founding Fathers’ principle of ordered liberty was a member of my party,* was at first cause for irritation evolving into alarm and frustration and finally arriving at a sobering moment of embarrassment for my party, and beyond that, of profound concern for my beloved country.”

*Fernandez ripped Trump for his antagonizing rhetoric, calling his claims of a rigged system should he lose to Clinton “insanity and dictatorial machinations at best” and characterizing Trump as an “abysmally unfit candidate who has unleashed “racist and violent acts.”*

*“I harbor no illusion that Hillary Clinton is perfect; none of us is,” he continued. “I do not see eye to eye on some issues with the former senator from New York. However, Clinton is, without a doubt, a superior choice to Donald Trump.”*

Clinton’s intelligence, experience and humility balance out her shortcomings and will serve her well in the White House, Fernandez said, noting that he is “equally convinced that our republic will be placed in fundamental peril if we are foolish enough to elect” Trump. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

@CBU-105 , I really did not wanted to discuss this useless third rate trailer trash propaganda but today I did had some extra time so I looked into it and this is what I found.

The trailer-trash are all over the web claiming that Hillary had a “seizure”, and FOX News crackpot Hannity invited two medical experts on his program to discuss so-called Hillary “seizere”, after showing them the clip, he asked, “what is your take”,

Dr. Fiona Gupta, neurologist, replied, “you know it’s just so hard to speculate based on snippets of the clip that, you know, what is going on without having a full examination and workup”.

But being a shameless idiot, he asked her again, “watch her reaction” it almost seems seizure-esque to me”.

Dr. Fiona Gupta, there are different types of seizures, local. I mean, typically Seizures that sometimes can cause just one body part, but it would be very rare.

I mean, typically seizures will generalize, *so I can’t say that’s seizures*.

Since Dr. Fiona refused to call it a seizure, embarrassed Hannity turned to his other guest, asking him, “aren’t there many seizures like that Dr. Siegel? ”

Dr. Siegel, *“I’m not a neurologist, and I don’t think that necessarily looks like a seizure” Link*


Conclusion, both medical panelists rejected Hannity’s propaganda. Keep in mind, Dr. Fiona is a neurologist and no one knows better than her since it’s her field.

I also saw the clip in slow motion on YouTube (speed 0.5) and noted that Hillary only shook her head four times, yes, that’s right, only 4 times. Everyone in the clip was laughing and joking as they all knew Hillary was intentionally doing it.


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## maximuswarrior

Anubis said:


> Most of the Trump supporters here are neither Americans...nor have the slightest clue about how American politics works.



We all know why these Trump supporters are so eager and happy to support him. By the way, you won't find much support for Trump from any other nation around the world apart from one specific nation. These people are more loyal than the king himself and it is hilarious. Following their support for Trump in this thread is fun. What nationalistic jingoism can sometimes do to your sanity.

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## 24 Hours

Looking at this thread, I guess the Hindus for Trump movement is more popular than I think it is.


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## Anubis

RabzonKhan said:


> @CBU-105 , I really did not wanted to discuss this useless third rate trailer trash propaganda but today I did had some extra time so I looked into it and this is what I found.
> 
> The trailer-trash are all over the web claiming that Hillary had a “seizure”, and FOX News crackpot Hannity invited two medical experts on his program to discuss so-called Hillary “seizere”, after showing them the clip, he asked, “what is your take”,
> 
> Dr. Fiona Gupta, neurologist, replied, “you know it’s just so hard to speculate based on snippets of the clip that, you know, what is going on without having a full examination and workup”.
> 
> But being a shameless idiot, he asked her again, “watch her reaction” it almost seems seizure-esque to me”.
> 
> Dr. Fiona Gupta, there are different types of seizures, local. I mean, typically Seizures that sometimes can cause just one body part, but it would be very rare.
> 
> I mean, typically seizures will generalize, *so I can’t say that’s seizures*.
> 
> Since Dr. Fiona refused to call it a seizure, embarrassed Hannity turned to his other guest, asking him, “aren’t there many seizures like that Dr. Siegel? ”
> 
> Dr. Siegel, *“I’m not a neurologist, and I don’t think that necessarily looks like a seizure” Link*
> 
> 
> Conclusion, both medical panelists rejected Hannity’s propaganda. Keep in mind, Dr. Fiona is a neurologist and no one knows better than her since it’s her field.
> 
> I also saw the clip in slow motion on YouTube (speed 0.5) and noted that Hillary only shook her head four times, yes, that’s right, only 4 times. Everyone in the clip was laughing and joking as they all knew Hillary was intentionally doing it.


And this the guy that gave Trump a clean bill of health.

Docta Harold Bornstein

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## ultron

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...4099-poll-trump-leads-clinton-by-1-nationwide

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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> Hillary was intentionally doing it.


lol, clearly not, but whatever, no point obsessing over every small viral video that emerges. Let's stick to the important issues for sake of debate.

Internationally, non US citizens such as myself and millions of others across the world have a big problem with Hillary because of her record as secretary of state.

She was in favor of the "arab spring" and strongly supported Morsi and the muslim brotherhood takeover of Egypt.
She orchestrated regime change in Libya, "we came, we saw.." (look how that turned out). *and Benghazi*

She then went into Syria and destabilized it by supporting the terrorist rebels and still maintains her stance on regime change there and is promising to enforce a no fly zone to directly challenge the Russian air force who are legally operating there as per international law.
She failed to get Obama to sign a status of forces agreement (SOFA) that would have allowed for a residual force to remain in Iraq when virtually the entire US military intelligence apparatus was saying that they should stay. (we know how that turned out as well)

She didn't do anything about China's rampant encroachment and illegal military base building in the SCS, China took over the Scarborough shoal from the Philippines.
She is a neocon warhawk, everything she touched turned to shit, she is also incompetent because of the many things she didn't do anything about, but given her abysmal record, maybe that's for the better, eh ?

The only thing her foreign policy proposals are suggesting so far, is that she wants to start WW3 with Russia.

Now let's compare that to some of what Donald Trump is proposing.

No more senseless wars "the era of nation building will be brought to a very swift and decisive end." 

No support to the Syrian 'rebels', don't start ww3 over Russia.
Instead, he is proposing a détente with Putin, and subject to negotiations, maybe even ally with the Russians to wipe out a common enemy, the jihadis in the middle east as well as try and get a hold on the mass migration from that region which is causing many problems in the EU/West
Seems to me like Trump is the common sense man here, crooked Hillary will be a continuation of the horrible Bush-Obama failed policies that have caused so much death and destruction, Trump said it best himself in the acceptance speech at the RNC:






also, Rabzon bhai, I understand fully your strong dislike for Trump based on some of his rhetoric. I agree that he is not a very polished guy and has made a few missteps along the way but to paint him as some sort of crazed racist white supremacist maniac the way some of the press and mainstream media pundits have been doing is extremely disingenuous to say the least. Speaking specifically from a foreign policy standpoint, he is in fact clearly the lesser of the two evils as far as a lot of the rest of the world is concerned.

also, even if your vote and opinion is 100% locked into anti Trump mode, watch this very interesting conversation here, Scott Adams (creator of Dilbert, the office guy cartoon strip) on Trump and the race in general:

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## ultron

It don't matter who is president of the US. Every president of the US bombs Arabs or someone else. Not a single president since JFK has not bombed. Obama dropped tens of thousands of bombs since 2014. Is that peaceful? That's not the definition of peace in my books.

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## Anubis

ultron said:


> It don't matter who is president of the US. Every president of the US bombs Arabs or someone else. Not a single president since JFK has not bombed. Obama dropped tens of thousands of bombs since 2014. Is that peaceful? That's not the definition of peace in my books.


Jimmy fuckin Carter....

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## Nilgiri

Anubis said:


> Jimmy fuckin Carter....



Jimmy Carter got mugged by a fluffly cute rabbit once!


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## Anubis

Nilgiri said:


> Jimmy Carter got mugged by a fluffly cute rabbit once!


Well he was a pacifist...he could've destroyed Iran...but he didn't....I don't think he regrets it.

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## RabzonKhan

Anubis said:


> And this the guy that gave Trump a clean bill of health.
> 
> Docta Harold Bornstein


Lol, he’s really a strange guy, not only his looks, but the way he writes is also quite strange. The Late Show host Stephen Colbert sums it up succinctly.









*Clinton camp smashes fundraising record: $143 million in August*

Dan Merica, CNN
9/1/2016

(CNN)Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign raised $143 million in August for her campaign, the DNC and state parties, according to a campaign press release, a haul that makes the month the best of her campaign.

The fundraising haul is a silver lining on what otherwise was a difficult month for Clinton, where questions about her exclusive use of a private email server as secretary of state and questions about pay-to-play at the Clinton Foundation hamstrung her campaign. *Read more*

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## ultron

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/worl...up-to-clinton-latest-reutersipsos-poll-finds/

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## Nilgiri

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKCN1182PT

*Trump catches up to Clinton, latest Reuters/Ipsos poll finds*

*By Maurice Tamman and Chris Kahn
*
Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump has pulled into an effective tie with Democratic rival Hillary Clinton, erasing a substantial deficit as he consolidated support among his party’s likely voters in recent weeks, according to the latest Reuters/Ipsos national tracking poll released Friday.

The poll showed 40 percent of likely voters supporting Trump and 39 percent backing Clinton for the week of Aug. 26 to Sept. 1. Clinton's support has dropped steadily in the weekly tracking poll since Aug. 25, eliminating what had been a eight-point lead for her.

Trump's gains came as Republican support for their party’s candidate jumped by six percentage points over the past two weeks, to about 78 percent. That is still below the 85 percent support Republican nominee Mitt Romney enjoyed in the summer of 2012, but the improvement helps explain Trump’s rise in the poll.

The Reuters/Ipsos poll is conducted online in English in all 50 states. The latest poll surveyed 1,804 likely voters over the course of the week; it had a credibility interval, a measure of accuracy, of three percent.

Different polls have produced widely different results over the course of the campaign. In part that's because some, like Reuters/Ipsos, have attempted to measure the preferences of who's likely to vote, while others have surveyed the larger pool of all registered voters. And even those that survey likely voters have different ways of estimating who is likely to cast a ballot.

Polling aggregators, which calculate averages of major polls, have shown that Clinton’s lead has been shrinking for the past few weeks. Those averages put her advantage over Trump at between three and six percentage points. Some of the more recent individual polls, however, have the race even tighter.

Voters don't elect the American president directly, of course, but through the Electoral College, an assembly representing each of the 50 states and the District of Columbia based on the number of legislators they have in Congress. As of last Friday, the separate Reuters/Ipsos States of the Nation polling project estimated Clinton was on track to win the Electoral College, by about 332 votes to 206. Those numbers were scheduled to be updated later Friday.

In recent weeks, Clinton has come under renewed criticism over her handling of classified information while serving as U.S. secretary of state, and her family's charitable foundation has come under fresh scrutiny for the donations it accepted while Clinton served in the Obama administration. Meanwhile, Clinton hasn't been campaigning as actively as Trump.


TRUMP'S BUMP

Trump, meanwhile, has reshuffled his campaign leadership and sought to broaden his appeal to moderate Republicans and minorities. He recently suggested that he would be a better president than Clinton for African Americans, and has taken steps, including a meeting this week with Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto, to reach out to immigrants. It remains to be seen whether those efforts will click.

In the latest Reuters/Ipsos poll, more than 20 percent of likely voters opted for a choice other than the two major nominees, whether an alternative candidate, "would not vote" or "unsure." That figure is significantly higher than the 10 percent to 14 percent of respondents who answered similarly at this point in the 2012 campaign. Both President Barack Obama and Republican rival Mitt Romney enjoyed substantially stronger support at this point in the summer of 2012 than either Trump or Clinton does now.

And while Trump has consolidated his support among Republicans, likely voters are expressing an increasingly sour view of Clinton: The share of likely voters with an unfavorable view of the former secretary of state has grown to 57 percent, compared with Trump's 54 percent, her worst showing on that metric in a month.

Larry Sabato, director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics, said he remains convinced Clinton is ahead, somewhere in the range seen among the polling aggregators.

“There has been a closing that’s completely natural,” Sabato said. “Every four years, you have two national party conventions that produce a bounce of varying sizes. Clinton got a substantial bounce this year that lasted for a full month. It’s usually gone around Labor Day, and by then we’ll be where we should be, which is right around four to five points” for Clinton.

In a separate question in the Reuters/Ipsos poll that included alternative-party candidates, Clinton and Trump were tied at 39 percent. Seven percent supported Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson, and two percent supported Jill Stein of the Green Party.

(Edited by Michael Williams)

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## CBU-105

Full Speech: Donald Trump Speaks to African American Church in Detroit 9/3/16 *







*

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## RabzonKhan

*The first time Donald Trump ever made headlines in the New York Times was in 1973—for a troubling reason.*

*The facts about Donald Trump’s history of prejudice.*

September 2, 2016 by Kat Kane






It’s no secret that Donald Trump has built his presidential campaign on divisive rhetoric. From calling Mexicans criminals and rapists to retweeting white supremacists, he’s playing right into the bigotry and paranoia held by a faction of his supporters.

*But Trump’s pattern of prejudice started long before he was a presidential candidate—or even a household name.*

Trump has been a fixture of newspaper headlines for decades, but his front page debut in the New York Times came in 1973, when he was sued for violating the Fair Housing Act.






*The Justice Department took Trump and his father to court for refusing to rent apartments to black applicants—marking their applications with a “C” for “colored”—and lying to them about whether any units were available.*

As the Washington Post reported:

“Phyllis Spiro, a white woman who went undercover in 1973 at a Trump property, told investigators how a building superintendent acknowledged to her ‘that he followed a racially discriminatory rental policy at the direction of his superiors, and that there were only very few ‘colored’ tenants’ at the complex, according to court records.”

Trump handled the accusations in what would become typical Trump fashion: vehement denial and counterpunches.

*Instead of settling the case, he claimed the government was trying to force him to rent to “welfare recipients” and called a news conference to announce a $100 million countersuit against the Department of Justice for defamation.*
Trump’s countersuit was thrown out (the judge called it a “waste of time and paper”) and his company, Trump Management, eventually settled the civil rights suit, agreeing to a long list of anti-discrimination measures, including giving the National Urban League a weekly list of rental vacancies.

*But just three years later, the Justice Department took Trump back to court for continuing to deny rentals based on race and steering black and Puerto Rican tenants to certain properties.*
According to a recent _New York Times_ report:

“While more black families were now renting in Trump-owned buildings, the government said, many had been confined to a small number of complexes. And tenants in some of these buildings had complained about the conditions, from falling plaster to rusty light fixtures to bloodstained floors.”

*Trump’s troubling pattern has continued for decades—and not just in his apartment buildings. Here are four more times:*
1989: Trump took out four full-page ads in New York City newspapers, calling for the return of the death penalty in response to the “Central Park Five”—four black teenagers and one Latino teenager who were accused of attacking and raping a jogger in what has been described as a modern-day lynching.

1992: The New Jersey Casino Control Commission fined the Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino for removing black dealers from the floor to accommodate the bigotry of a big-time gambler.

2000: Trump secretly bankrolled a series of offensive ads to oppose Native American gaming in New York state.

2011: Trump started perpetuating the preposterous lie that America’s first black president isn’t really a U.S. citizen.

*And now, of course, there’s his presidential campaign.*

*All of this together paints a dark picture of who Trump really is—and it’s something every voter should know before they head to the polls.*


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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> www.hillaryclinton.com

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## RabzonKhan

Thanks to the electoral advantage the Democrats enjoy, Hillary Clinton has many paths to become the next president.

If she wins Florida, which has 29 electoral votes, or even Ohio (18 electoral votes), 
she will be the 45th president of the United States. 








*Currently tracking 39 polls from 22 pollsters*

Updated about 15 hours ago

*This chart combines the latest opinion polls into trendlines using a poll-tracking model and is updated whenever a new poll is released.*







*

Currently tracking 26 polls from 14 pollsters*

Updated about 17 hours ago

*This chart combines the latest opinion polls into trendlines using a poll-tracking model and is updated whenever a new poll is released.*







@CBU-105, you like it or not, the fact is that everything mentioned in that article is true, before posting it I verified through independent sources. You can also do your own research on the Google.


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## Anubis

RabzonKhan said:


> Thanks to the electoral advantage the Democrats enjoy, Hillary Clinton has many paths to become the next president.
> 
> If she wins Florida, which has 29 electoral votes, or even Ohio (18 electoral votes),
> she will be the 45th president of the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 331523
> 
> 
> *Currently tracking 39 polls from 22 pollsters*
> 
> Updated about 15 hours ago
> 
> *This chart combines the latest opinion polls into trendlines using a poll-tracking model and is updated whenever a new poll is released.*
> 
> View attachment 331524
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Currently tracking 26 polls from 14 pollsters*
> 
> Updated about 17 hours ago
> 
> *This chart combines the latest opinion polls into trendlines using a poll-tracking model and is updated whenever a new poll is released.*
> 
> 
> View attachment 331525
> 
> 
> @CBU-105, you like it or not, the fact is that everything mentioned in that article is true, before posting it I verified through independent sources. You can also do your own research on the Google.


Just winning won't be enough...she has to aim for a landslide...even if she wins a "close" battle....it would be embarrassing!

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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> who Trump really is


“When Donald opened his club in Palm Beach called Mar-a-Lago, he insisted on accepting Jews and blacks even though other clubs in Palm Beach to this day discriminate against blacks and Jews. The old guard in Palm Beach was outraged that Donald would accept blacks and Jews so that’s the real Donald Trump that I know.”

That was author Ronald Kessler in a July 2015 interview with Newsmax, talking about Republican presidential frontrunner Donald Trump’s business practices when it came to building a golf course in the Deep South.

In the 1990s, Trump was running into a problem getting his golf course approved by the local town council in Palm Beach, which was imposing restrictions on his bid.

So Trump shot back with maximum effect. As reported by the Washington Post’s Mary Jordan and Rosalind Helderman on Nov. 14, 2015: “Trump undercut his adversaries with a searing attack, claiming that local officials seemed to accept the established private clubs in town that had excluded Jews and blacks while imposing tough rules on his inclusive one.”

The Washington Post report continues, “Trump’s lawyer sent every member of the town council copies of two classic movies about discrimination: ‘A Gentleman’s Agreement,’ about a journalist who pretends to be Jewish to expose anti-Semitism, and ‘Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner’ about a white couple’s reaction to their daughter bringing home a black fiancé.”

Sometimes, in judging the character of an individual, it pays to see what people actually do when nobody’s really paying attention. When it came to segregation in the South at private, all-white country clubs, it might have been in Trump’s business interests to simply look the other way. Instead, Trump did the right thing and insisted on desegregation at his golf resort.

And he won.

Soon thereafter, the local restrictions were lifted and, today, the golf course is open and remains inclusive.

It remains a point of pride for Trump, who boasted about the golf resort in a 2015 interview, “Whether they love me or not, everyone agrees the greatest and most important place in Palm Beach is Mar-a-Lago. I took this ultimate place and made it incredible and opened it, essentially, to the people of Palm Beach. The fact that I owned it made it a lot easier to get along with the Palm Beach establishment.”

At the time in 1997, then-Anti-Defamation League President Abraham Foxman praised Trump for elevating the issue of discrimination at private clubs, telling the Wall Street Journal, “He put the light on Palm Beach. Not on the beauty and the glitter, but on its seamier side of discrimination. It has an impact.” Foxman credited Trump’s move with encouraging other clubs in Palm Beach to do the same as Mar-a-Lago in opening up.

That’s the real Donald Trump. The one who dealt with a real problem to do with discrimination on race and religion in Palm Beach long before he was ever seeking public office by confronting a local planning board over its exclusive policies, determined he would do things differently.

http://truthfeed.com/trump-insisted...golf-course-in-1990s-when-others-didnt/10528/

The truth abut crooked hillary clinton is that she is a corrupt warhawk neocon who supports terrorists, is allied with states like saudi arabia, takes money from them and whose policies have resulted in the chaos, death and destruction we see in that part of the world as well as the resultant global terror attacks we have seen all over the world. The fact that she's raising all this money from neocon donors and wall street actually helps Trump, the upcoming wikileaks releases are going to sink her proper.


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## RabzonKhan

*



Hillary Clinton greets her traveling press corps aboard her new plane*

By John Wagner September 5 2016

IN THE AIR EN ROUTE TO CLEVELAND — Hillary Clinton, who has had a standoffish relationship with the traveling press corps that follows her, made a point Monday of venturing to the back of her new campaign plane to offer greetings shortly before its maiden voyage — and promised a “more formal” conversation later.

“Hey, guys, welcome to our big plane,” Clinton told about three dozen members of the news media occupying the plane’s final seven rows. “It's so exciting.”

“I am so happy to have all of you with me,” she said in response to a question about sharing a plane with the press corps. “ I have just been waiting for this moment.”

Before Monday, Clinton and the press corps had been traveling the country on separate charter planes, with limited interaction between the Democratic presidential nominee and those who cover her on a daily basis.

*The plane is a Boeing 737 that the Clinton campaign noted was manufactured in the United States. The color scheme is described as scion blue and white, and it is prominently adorned with Clinton’s “Stronger Together” slogan and the campaign’s “H” logo.*

Clinton’s motorcade arrived Monday at the airport in Westchester County, N.Y., not far from her Chappaqua home, shortly after 10 a.m. The plane was soon en route to Cleveland, the first of two cities the candidate plans to visit on Labor Day.

*Her ticket has a full day of events to commemorate the holiday. Clinton’s running mate, Sen. Tim Kaine of Virginia, is also on the trail, as are their spouses, Vice President Biden and Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, the runner-up for the Democratic nomination.* *Read more*


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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> *Hillary Clinton greets her traveling press corps aboard her new plane*


2 minutes in a controlled environment, let's see her do a proper press conference fielding questions from dozens of reporters in an unscripted environment.

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## RabzonKhan

Anubis said:


> Just winning won't be enough...she has to aim for a landslide...even if she wins a "close" battle....it would be embarrassing!


Well, it would be really fun to see Hillary beat him with a huge electoral margin, but let’s not give Trumps supporters any ideas. 





CBU-105 said:


> “When Donald opened his club in Palm Beach called Mar-a-Lago, he insisted on accepting Jews and blacks even though other clubs in Palm Beach to this day discriminate against blacks and Jews. The old guard in Palm Beach was outraged that Donald would accept blacks and Jews so that’s the real Donald Trump that I know.”


So you were unable to defend or object to anything that I posted?

Anyhow, I believe this issue of Mar a Lago was all about money, in other words, it was a smart business strategy not a social issue.



> The truth abut crooked hillary clinton is that she is a corrupt warhawk neocon who supports terrorists,


Hillary supports terrorists, really? Looks like you’re taking Russian/Iranian/Asad’s propaganda too seriously.



> is allied with states like saudi arabia, takes money from them and whose policies have resulted in the chaos, death and destruction we see in that part of the world as well as the resultant global terror attacks we have seen all over the world. The fact that she's raising all this money from neocon donors and wall street actually helps Trump,


Look, America/Saudi relation is a very complicated issue and I would not want to discuss it at this time, the only thing I would say is that Hillary did not directly get that money it was donated to her charity which spends most of the money in projects and programs in Africa and Asia. On the other hand, Trump is a hypocrite and a liar, he has been shamelessly criticizing Hillary but he himself has been involved with the Saudis for a very long time:

08/21/15 Mobile, Alabama.

"Saudi Arabia – and I get along great with all of them. They buy
apartments from me, they spend 40 million, 50 million. Am I supposed to
dislike them? I like them very much. But you know Saudi Arabia makes $1
billion a day – a day. In all fairness that`s before the oil went down a
little bit, but that`s okay. These are minor details." *Link*

And read this and see how much Donnie was involved with the Saudi’s:

*EXCLUSIVE: Donald Trump made millions from Saudi Arabia, but trashes Hillary Clinton for Saudi donations to Clinton Foundation. Link*



> the upcoming wikileaks releases are going to sink her proper.


Poor trumps supporters now they are depending on a Russian agent to help their candidate, funny.

Nothing can save him he is going down!

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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> So you were unable to defend or object to anything that I posted?


no, more like you have been unable to object to the things I've been posting, like Hillary Clinton being a neocon who is likely to start ww3.



RabzonKhan said:


> Anyhow, I believe this issue of Mar a Lago was all about money, in other words, it was a smart business strategy not a social issue.


not renting out apartments to people on welfare seems like a smart business strategy too.



RabzonKhan said:


> Hillary supports terrorists, really? Looks like you’re taking Russian/Iranian/Asad’s propaganda too seriously.


I've been following that one closely for 5 years now, why don't you name me some "moderate" rebel groups, then ? people who you, as a US citizen, are happy forking out tax money for their guns and bombs ?



RabzonKhan said:


> Look, America/Saudi relation is a very complicated issue


relations with Saudi is one thing, being in bed with them as they funnel weapons to terrorist groups in Syria and Libya is what I'm talking about.



RabzonKhan said:


> Hillary did not directly get that money it was donated to her charity which spends most of the money in projects and programs in Africa and Asia.


pay for play  



RabzonKhan said:


> Trump is a hypocrite and a liar, he has been shamelessly criticizing Hillary but he himself has been involved with the Saudis for a very long time:
> 
> 08/21/15 Mobile, Alabama.
> 
> "Saudi Arabia – and I get along great with all of them. They buy
> apartments from me, they spend 40 million, 50 million. Am I supposed to
> dislike them? I like them very much.


real estate businessman selling luxury condos vs secretary of state selling white house favours.



RabzonKhan said:


> trumps supporters now they are depending on a Russian agent to help their candidate, funny.


"russian agent" eh ? 

blame the whole world but don't look into the actual content of the leaked e-mails. 

@Desert Fox

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## CBU-105



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## CorporateAffairs

Hillary is going down and fast.
Once the three debates are over, Trump will romp home at ease.



CBU-105 said:


>



Her end is near.

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## CBU-105

*lol, so it happened again to crooked ILLalry








Unfortunately for Hillary, her earlier coughing fit was not a lone wolf attack. *Right in the middle of her "Russia-Trump Conspiracy" lecture to reporters aboard her plan, she was forced to cut short her story by another "seasonal allergy" attack (odd aboard was is likely a heavily filtered air cabin), retreating to the safety of the front seats withe the *reappearance of her African American 'handler' once again*. Upon her return she explained that* "we went back and checked and this happens to me every Labor day."* Which seems odd... one assumes that any ill-timed meeting of world-leaders will have to take place in a hermetically-sealed room from now on...






http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...-one-worst-coughing-fits-ever-msnbc-cuts-away

are global bad vibes taking the witch down ? 





@Desert Fox , read you earlier post, stay on this thread, man, if only to troll RK

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## Nilgiri

MSM are starting to throw in the towel:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/06/_poli...-vs-clinton-presidential-polls-election-2016/

Probably prepping themselves for the severe beating Clinton is going to get in the debates

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## jha

CBU-105 said:


>



This may very well be another coincidence. But if exploited cleverly by Trump camp, a case against her can be built among people. Such things are happening too frequently with her. Wonder how independent will react if they think she is not physically fit. She has focused her election campaign about Donald Trump. Never a good strategy.

But then again, Trump has a big mouth and he likes to run it.



Nilgiri said:


> MSM are starting to throw in the towel:
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/06/_poli...-vs-clinton-presidential-polls-election-2016/
> 
> Probably prepping themselves for the severe beating Clinton is going to get in the debates



If Trump continues to behave like e has in last one week, he has good chance. Hillary herself is enough to take her down.

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## CBU-105

Live now, Trump policy speech on military and foreign policy, he's going to rip ILLary a new one with her record of military adventurism.





@Desert Fox @Nilgiri @Darmashkian @jha @Irfan Baloch

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## Irfan Baloch

CBU-105 said:


> Live now, Trump policy speech on military and foreign policy, he's going to rip ILLary a new one with her record of military adventurism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Desert Fox @Nilgiri @Darmashkian @jha @Irfan Baloch


thanks
I know Indians are cheering for him for his anti Muslim rhetoric in general and Pakistan in particular. is there already a shrine or picture of him being worshipped in India?

I think this scruple will work well in that regard.






but that said I am sure India will skillfully flip its stance if Hillary wins.

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## CBU-105

Irfan Baloch said:


> thanks
> I know Indians are cheering for him for his anti Muslim rhetoric in general and Pakistan in particular. is there already a shrine or picture of him being worshipped in India?


disappointing, give yourself a -ve for that.

"his anti Muslim rhetoric" is about the last thing on my agenda when discussing this, his opponent is who you should be concerned with if you want to look at it from purely a "muslim" angle.

What I like about Trump is his bold foreign policy proposals, and the fact that he destroyed the neocons and the Bush dynasty, as a republican, no less ! Truly astounding, he went so far where even anti Bush democrats dared not tread, and the right wing base rewarded him for doing so, guess Americans on the right are fed up of wars too.

He has also said some stupid things along the way, and the muslim ban, IMO, tops that list but he's not a politician, just a brash New York billionaire who means well overall, Hillary the neocon hawk is what worries me in terms of geopolitics and military conflict, and while some other Indians may, I have no interest in any of this because "anti muslim" or anything.

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## Irfan Baloch

CBU-105 said:


> disappointing, give yourself a -ve for that.
> 
> "his anti Muslim rhetoric" is about the last thing on my agenda when discussing this, his opponent is who you should be concerned with if you want to look at it from purely a "muslim" angle.
> 
> What I like about Trump is his bold foreign policy proposals, and the fact that he destroyed the neocons and the Bush dynasty, as a republican, no less ! Truly astounding, he went so far where even anti Bush democrats dared not tread, and the right wing base rewarded him for doing so, guess Americans on the right are fed up of wars too.
> 
> He has also said some stupid things along the way, and the muslim ban, IMO, tops that list but he's not a politician, just a brash New York billionaire who means well overall, Hillary the neocon hawk is what worries me in terms of geopolitics and military conflict, and while some other Indians may, I have no interest in any of this because "anti muslim" or anything.


dont take it to yourself 
I mean as a general comment

and looking at comments here and on yotube.. I see Indians cheering and warning Pakistan what "their" Trump will do for them.

Trump is playing with sentiments of people and doesnt mean what he says. he wasnt expecting to get this far but its hard to pull out now.

God save the world

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## CBU-105

Irfan Baloch said:


> dont take it to yourself
> I mean as a general comment
> 
> and looking at comments here and on yotube.. I see Indians cheering and warning Pakistan what "their" Trump will do for them.


Well, sadly there is some of that on the interwebs, but then there is also nazism and pro jihad and pro all sorts of other voices out there too. I don't think there has been any of it here so far, at least not on this thread (unless I missed it) and the small handful of Indians active here (nilgiri, jha. darmash.. etc) appear genuinely interested in the process, and not so much or at all in any of this "anti muslim" stuff.



Irfan Baloch said:


> Trump is playing with sentiments of people and doesnt mean what he says. he wasnt expecting to get this far but its hard to pull out now.
> 
> God save the world


oh please, which politician doesn't "play with sentiments of people" ? 

and I disagree, Trump, apart from having toyed with the idea of a dip into public office life numerous times over the past few decades, had been planning this 2016 run since at least 2011/12. He's no spring chicken, _remember this._

If he wins, which he might, It'll be an exciting time where we see yuge policy changes in how America operates geopolitically, and if he loses, well, let's enjoy the last 2 months of an amazing saga. 

however, should he win, and go on to destroy the world because he was always the ultimate insider plant only putting on a charade of an anti establishment populist  

that wouldn't surprise me either.

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## CBU-105

somewhat disappointing speech, this wasn't the one where they said he'll go after hillary for her foreign policy blunders and military adventurism.

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## maximuswarrior

LOL at the nationalistic Indians cheering for Trump. Fortunately, the whole world is united against Trump except India. Trump will destroy the last bit of credibility that the US has left. He can't even fulfill many of his false promises regarding the removal of illegal immigrants on the first day in office. What an outright embarrassment Trump will be for the US. The US elections are an absolute mockery. Hard to believe that a racist clown like Trump can be a US presidential nominee.


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## gambit

Irfan Baloch said:


>


And beautiful Melania actually went for this...

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## Sky lord

gambit said:


> And beautiful Melania actually went for this...


I doubt it ...she overlooked this....and kept her eyeballs firmly on his bank account and the pre-nup....if this is anatomically correct...must be a miracle that he has kids


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## Anubis

gambit said:


> And beautiful Melania actually went for this...


I would call her a gold digger..but with the micro-penis and the bankruptcies I just don't see any gold anywhere.


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## gambit

Anubis said:


> I would call her a gold digger..but with the micro-penis and the bankruptcies I just don't see any gold anywhere.


I would not call Melania a 'gold digger' since she was already well off, if not wealthy, before she married Trump. Est her worth: $10 mils.

She made what is called 'costume jewelry' rather than 'real jewelry', the kind that usually sold in Rodeo Drive and other ritzier places. The fact that she made that much means she is a shrewd observer what women want vs afford and how to design accessories that looks good and affordable. She is a 'beauty with brains' type. I got no problems with that.

But am guessing that the main reason she married Chump is because he has access to high society the way she does not. Melania is no Coco Channel and she knows it. Channel was wealthy enough to live at the Ritz for 37 yrs, with an estimated net worth of 19 bils, she can live anywhere and any style she want. Clump's wealth and personality enabled him to move in circles that Melania would never be able to unless someone with Frump's wealth took charity on her and sponsored her into those circles. Melania is ambitious, make no mistake about that, and her marriage to Bump is just a step in her path.

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## Anubis

gambit said:


> I would not call Melania a 'gold digger' since she was already well off, if not wealthy, before she married Trump. Est her worth: $10 mils.
> 
> She made what is called 'costume jewelry' rather than 'real jewelry', the kind that usually sold in Rodeo Drive and other ritzier places. The fact that she made that much means she is a shrewd observer what women want vs afford and how to design accessories that looks good and affordable. She is a 'beauty with brains' type. I got no problems with that.
> 
> But am guessing that the main reason she married Chump is because he has access to high society the way she does not. Melania is no Coco Channel and she knows it. Channel was wealthy enough to live at the Ritz for 37 yrs, with an estimated net worth of 19 bils, she can live anywhere and any style she want. Clump's wealth and personality enabled him to move in circles that Melania would never be able to unless someone with Frump's wealth took charity on her and sponsored her into those circles. Melania is ambitious, make no mistake about that, and her marriage to Bump is just a step in her path.


Even if Trump fails this time...do you see a Ivanka candidacy in the near future?


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## gambit

Anubis said:


> Even if Trump fails this time...do you see a Ivanka candidacy in the near future?


Nope.

I am a democrat, not a Democrat. Neither am I Republican, although some conservative ideas do meshes well with Libertarianism, but I am not a true Libertarian since I have a more aggressive foreign affairs mentality than the average Libertarian.

Donald Trump is a con man. His entire family knows it, and so do his supporters, including the fawning Sean Hannity of Fox News. The Chump got where he is because enough Republicans are willing to hold their noses out of their hatred for Hillary Clinton. Whether he got elected or not, there will not be another Trump running for President. I am confident of that. Assuming Dump got elected, once he served his purpose of removing HC from future chances at the Presidency and assuming he lived up to his promise of overturning Obama's policies, the American people, including his current supporters, will turn from him.

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## Irfan Baloch

gambit said:


> And beautiful Melania actually went for this...


leave that poor girl alone
she only signed up for few shopping bags after getting on her knees whenever Trump had a rough day.

talking of statures.. the guy who made them says he has equal dislike for the Hillary and one can imagine if public places are graced with her statue then her breasts might be hanging below her knee caps.. I wont want to see that and have difficulty even imagining that

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## CBU-105

well, he was CEO of _Cannabis Sativa_, _Inc_. and only stopped using their product a few months ago.

http://cannabissativainc.com/

their stock is trading higher

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## Parmanu

So, basically the clinton lady wins and its game as usual. Bleh!!!

So, basically the clinton lady wins and its game as usual. Bleh!!!


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## RabzonKhan

Shocker, Hillary is one point ahead of Trump in polls, in the mother of all red state, Texas, it’s a real embarrassment for Donnie,

And on top of that a pro-Republican Texas newspaper has endorsed her.


*Editorials*
*We recommend Hillary Clinton for president





*
By Dallas Morning News Editorial
Published: 07 September 2016

*There is only one serious candidate on the presidential ballot in November. We recommend Hillary Clinton.*

*We don't come to this decision easily. This newspaper has not recommended a Democrat for the nation's highest office since before World War II — if you're counting, that's more than 75 years and nearly 20 elections.* The party's over-reliance on government and regulation to remedy the country's ills is at odds with our belief in private-sector ingenuity and innovation. Our values are more about individual liberty, free markets and a strong national defense.

We've been critical of Clinton's handling of certain issues in the past. But unlike Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton has experience in actual governance, a record of service and a willingness to delve into real policy.

*Resume vs. resume, judgment vs. judgment, this election is no contest. *

*In Clinton's eight years in the U.S. Senate, she displayed reach and influence in foreign affairs. *Though conservatives like to paint her as nakedly partisan, on Capitol Hill she gained respect from Republicans for working across the aisle: Two-thirds of her bills had GOP co-sponsors and included common ground with some of Congress' most conservative lawmakers.

*As President Barack Obama's first secretary of state, she helped make tough calls on the Middle East and the complex struggle against radical Islamic terrorism. It's no accident that hundreds of Republican foreign policy hands back Clinton.* She also has the support of dozens of top advisers from previous Republican administrations, including Henry Paulson, John Negroponte, Richard Armitage and Brent Scowcroft. Also on this list is Jim Glassman, the founding executive director of the George W. Bush Institute in Dallas. *Read more
*



CBU-105 said:


> Let's stick to the important issues for sake of debate.
> 
> Internationally, non US citizens such as myself and millions of others across the world have a big problem with Hillary because of her record as secretary of state.


First, you have to understand that Secretary of State is the President’s chief foreign affairs adviser and do not run own foreign policy, but carries out the President’s foreign policy. And it is widely believed that Pres. Obama is very much involved in decision-making.

And as Pres. Harry Truman once said, “the buck stops here”, meaning, that the President has to make the decisions and accept the ultimate responsibility for those decisions.

Having said that, I think Hillary was a good Secretary of State and sorry to say, but you’re so misinformed.




> She was in favor of the "arab spring" and strongly supported Morsi and the muslim brotherhood takeover of Egypt.


You’re absolutely wrong, she was in-fact pro-Mubarak and wanted to work with him, she had warned Pres. Obama “it all may work out fine in 25 years, but I think the period between now and then will be quite rocky for the Egyptian people, for the region, and for us.”




> She orchestrated regime change in Libya, "we came, we saw.." (look how that turned out). and Benghazi



She did not “orchestrate regime change,” it was an indigenous uprising against the dictator and was supported by the French, British and even the Arab League, in the beginning the US had no involvement in it.




> She then went into Syria and destabilized it by supporting the terrorist rebels and still maintains her stance on regime change there and is promising to enforce a no fly zone to directly challenge the Russian air force who are legally operating there as per international law.


Wrong again, you are giving the impression that she started the Civil War there, the fact is that Syrian Civil War started in 2011, and in a major policy shift, in 2013 Pres. Obama decided to supply military support to the rebels (after Assad used chemical weapons against the rebels).

On Russia and no fly zone, she has a very sensible policy:

“Now to be clear though, there is a role for Russia to help for resolving the conflict in Syria. And we have indicated a willingness to work with them toward an outcome that preserves Syria as a unitary, non-sectarian state, with protections of the rights of all Syrians and to keep key state institutions in tact. There is no alternative to a political transition that allows Syrians to end Assad’s rule. 

We should also work with the coalition and the neighbors to impose no fly zones that will stop Assad from slaughtering civilians and the opposition from the air. Opposition forces on the ground, with material support from the coalition, could then help create safe areas where Syrians could remain in the country rather than fleeing toward Europe.”


Okay my friend I have to hit the bed now, but definitely I would reply tomorrow to the rest of your post.

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## maximuswarrior

*Why Gary Johnson’s Aleppo Comment Sums Up The Presidential Election*

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...-sums-up-the-2016_us_57d1be8ce4b0eb9a57b7a2e3

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## CorporateAffairs

Hillary is losing fast and big. 
Trump now leads all polls.


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## maximuswarrior

They say that the leaders represent the people. If Trump were the become the president of the US, justice will be done. It will sum up where this country and its people are heading.


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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> I think Hillary was a good Secretary of State and sorry to say, but you’re so misinformed.





RabzonKhan said:


> You’re absolutely wrong, she was in-fact pro-Mubarak and wanted to work with him, she had warned Pres. Obama “it all may work out fine in 25 years, but I think the period between now and then will be quite rocky for the Egyptian people, for the region, and for us.”


great secretary of state right there, no wonder they later even filed charges vs Obama and her for conspiring with the muslim brotherhood.



RabzonKhan said:


> She did not “orchestrate regime change,” it was an indigenous uprising against the dictator and was supported by the French, British and even the Arab League, in the beginning the US had no involvement in it.


nothing, and especially not big destabilization operations like regime change happen unless under the express auspices of the US. Obama, to his credit, has since gone on to say that it was his biggest mistake, has she owned up ? nope, not likely to either.



RabzonKhan said:


> Wrong again, you are giving the impression that she started the Civil War there, the fact is that Syrian Civil War started in 2011, and in a major policy shift, in 2013 Pres. Obama decided to supply military support to the rebels (after Assad used chemical weapons against the rebels).


no, you are wrong here. The US had provided military support, including training and lethal aid to the so called rebels from very early on in the conflict, just not heavy (anti tank TOW) weapons.

I also happen to disagree with your "Assad used chemical weapons.." claim, it is much more likely that jihadists groups were responsible for the initial incident, there have been more since that the global press has conveniently ignored because it was used against Syrian government troops.



RabzonKhan said:


> On Russia and no fly zone, she has a very sensible policy:
> 
> “Now to be clear though, there is a role for Russia to help for resolving the conflict in Syria. And we have indicated a willingness to work with them toward an outcome that preserves Syria as a unitary, non-sectarian state, with protections of the rights of all Syrians and to keep key state institutions in tact. There is no alternative to a political transition that allows Syrians to end Assad’s rule.
> 
> We should also work with the coalition and the neighbors to impose no fly zones that will stop Assad from slaughtering civilians and the opposition from the air. Opposition forces on the ground, with material support from the coalition, could then help create safe areas where Syrians could remain in the country rather than fleeing toward Europe.”


Nothing sensible in that at all. First off, you have to understand that the Russians are the only ones operating legally (per intl. law) in Syrian skies.

She also absolutely does not want a "unitary, non-sectarian state", this is made quite obvious by the US' support for Islamist militants (at this stage in the game, they're virtually all islamist and deeply sectarian, and none of them want a unitary state). If she really does care for Syria and wants to stem the refugee exodus, maybe she should reconsider her support for the opposition and help bring this mother of all clusterfecks to an end.

Do you even understand what imposing a no-fly zone would entail ? that they shoot down Russian planes who are legally operating inside Syria at the request of the legitimate UN recognized government of Syria, exactly what neocon warmongers like McCain and Lindsey Graham etc want because she herself is a corrupt corporatist warmonger neocon.

anyway, the Syrian issue is a very polarizing one for anyone who cares about it, I don't expect randoms like us to agree on it, much less the warring parties themselves. I also doubt, in fact I'm pretty sure, that the US electorate in general is not very well informed of the facts, for many, it wont even be a blip on the radar, the partisans of course will vote their team no matter what, and for others still, single issues such as gun laws or healthcare etc will trump everything else as they head to the ballot.

My general observation though, is that the dems made a booboo when they screwed Bernie in favor of someone who is the epitome of the "establishment". For all his insane "everything free for everyone" commie bs, he still had a populist socialist movement going, but Hillary killed it. Trump otoh, his right wing 'nationalist' movement is still going strong, and growing stronger by the looks of it. Look at the recent polls, for all her "racist/nazi/demagogue/sexist/xenophobe/misogynist" smears, and the fact that the mainstream media is so heavily biased in her favor, she can't put him away, none of those are sticking and he's leading _big league _with the independents.

she still wont do press conferences, when she does, the questions are decided on earlier, Trump destroyed her at the CIC forum, she was like a fish out of water when the veteran hit her with the e-mail question, probably the one that sunk her.

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## CBU-105



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## Nilgiri




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## RabzonKhan

*Facebook co-founder gives $20 million to Hillary Clinton, Democrats*

CBS NEWS September 9, 2016

Facebook co-founder Dustin Moskovitz and his wife Cari Tuna are committing $20 million to the Democratic cause for the 2016 general election, the Silicon Valley couple announced Thursday.

The two will give that money to various groups supporting Clinton and other down-ballot Democrat races, including the Hillary Victory Fund (a joint fundraising committee with the Democratic National Committee), the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC), and the Democratic Congressional 
Campaign Committee (DCCC). The largest contributions Moskovitz will make are $5 million each to the League of Conservation Voters fund and the For Our Future PAC.

“This decision was not easy, particularly because we have reservations about anyone using large amounts of money to influence elections,” the couple wrote in a Medium blog post. “That said, we believe in trying to do as much good as we can, which in this case means using the tools available to us (as they are also available to the opposition).”

“At the same time,” they added, “we are being open about the amount of funding we’re providing, even though transparency is not required in some cases.”

*They gave a strong reason for their massive donation to the Democrats: Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump. The couple accused him of “running on a zero-sum vision, stressing a false contest between their constituency and the rest of the world.”*

“We believe [Republicans’] positions, especially on immigration, which purport to improve the lives of Americans, would in practice hurt citizens and noncitizens alike,” the couple wrote.

*In contrast, they noted that the “Democratic Party, and Hillary Clinton in particular, is running on a vision of optimism, pragmatism, inclusiveness and mutual benefit.”*

*While the two “don’t support every plank of the platform,” an America under Hillary Clinton “will advance much further toward the world we hope to see,” they wrote.*

“If Donald Trump wins, the country will fall backward, and become more isolated from the global community,” they said.

*Moskovitz, who was one of Mark Zuckerberg’s Harvard roommates and whose net worth is now an estimated $10.5 billion, won’t be the first Silicon Valley billionaire to give large sums of money to the Clinton campaign. He joins a long line of tech executives that have deemed Trump a “disaster” for innovation and the industry as a whole -- a list of current or former executives at Silicon Valley giants like Facebook, Slack, Flickr, Apple, Google, and Yelp. *




CBU-105 said:


> She failed to get Obama to sign a status of forces agreement (SOFA) that would have allowed for a residual force to remain in Iraq when virtually the entire US military intelligence apparatus was saying that they should stay. (we know how that turned out as well)


Actually, for your kind information, she was one of the strongest supporters of keeping the troops in Iraq:


*For Clinton, her State Department senior staff—as well as for top officials at the time, including Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and CIA Director David Petraeus—there was a national security interest in keeping thousands of troops in Iraq.* There were limited, but important, missions to be done: countering terrorists, advising the Iraqi armed forces, and protecting U.S. personnel. *Clinton was particularly aggressive in pushing for a long-term troop presence,* officials involved in the negotiations say. *Link*


*Not that the two have agreed on everything. Clinton, for example, strongly advocated keeping more troops in both Afghanistan and Iraq,* according to a senior White House official. Publicly, though, she unwaveringly supported the president’s determination to bring to an end America’s increasingly unpopular wars, withdrawing the remaining American troops from Iraq last December and scheduling the withdrawals from Afghanistan by 2014. *Link*





> She didn't do anything about China's rampant encroachment and illegal military base building in the SCS, China took over the Scarborough shoal from the Philippines.


Maybe you didn’t know, but she did try:


“What might be a challenge today for some of ASEAN’s members, if left unaddressed by all of ASEAN, could lead tomorrow to issues that may become problems for (the rest of) other ASEAN members,” the Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs quoted Clinton as saying during the ASEAN-US ministerial meeting in the Cambodian capital of Phnom Penh Wednesday.* *

It’s the first time that a major foreign power has called on the ASEAN to make a clear stand on the impasse between the Philippines and China at the shoal which is well within Manila’s territorial waters. *Link*




> She is a neocon warhawk, everything she touched turned to shit, she is also incompetent because of the many things she didn't do anything about, but given her abysmal record, maybe that's for the better, eh ?
> The only thing her foreign policy proposals are suggesting so far, is that she wants to start WW3 with Russia.


She is not a “neocon warhawk” but a strong leader who will protect America’s national interest and will not let a second rate power to undermine them.




> Now let's compare that to some of what Donald Trump is proposing.
> 
> 
> No more senseless wars "the era of nation building will be brought to a very swift and decisive end."
> No support to the Syrian 'rebels', don't start ww3 over Russia.
> Instead, he is proposing a détente with Putin, and subject to negotiations, maybe even ally with the Russians to wipe out a common enemy, the jihadis in the middle east as well as try and get a hold on the mass migration from that region which is causing many problems in the EU/West


Trump is a joke he knows nothing about foreign policy, he’s Mr. contradiction, a Mr. flip-flop and most of the time he doesn’t even know what the heck he’s talking about.

Everyone should watch the video and see what this man is all about:









> also, Rabzon bhai, I understand fully your strong dislike for Trump based on some of his rhetoric.


My friend, let me clarify one thing to you and others, I’m not against him because he hates Muslims or Islam, as a diehard secularist I still would have opposed him if he was anti-Jew or anti-Hindu, the fact is, it’s not about Muslims or Islam, it’s about America, it’s about American democracy, it’s about American secular values, it’s about American standing in the world and most importantly, it’s about American unity and strength.[/QUOTE]


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## RabzonKhan

CBU-105 said:


> great secretary of state right there, no wonder they later even filed charges vs Obama and her for conspiring with the muslim brotherhood.


Totally false news!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/politicians/obamahillary.asp

*Claim:* President Obama and Hillary Clinton were officially charged in Egypt with aiding and abetting terrorists.


Sorry, cannot discuss further, since mostly you are repeating yourself and quite frankly this thread is not about Middle East wars, let’s stick to the main topic of the thread, thank you.

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## LA se Karachi

maximuswarrior said:


> They say that the leaders represent the people. If Trump were the become the president of the US, justice will be done. *It will sum up where this country and its people are heading.*




Actually, younger voters don't like Trump. Most of them are in favor of more progressive policies (especially economic policies) as compared to their older peers. They're not voting for him. Though the numbers could have been much better if Sanders was the nominee:





https://morningconsult.com/2016/07/...o-clinton-trump-cant-buy-older-minority-vote/






http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-and-trump-are-losing-a-lot-of-young-voters/


As the older generations leave the electorate, younger ones come in. More of the current young generations will turnout to vote as they age. And neither Trump or Clinton won the votes of most young voters in their respective primaries, their opponents received much more:






http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016...ung-voters-here-s-how-it-could-cost-them.html






https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ers-than-trump-and-clinton-combined-by-a-lot/

So _no_, whether or not Trump wins, it would not "sum up where this country and its people are heading"*.*

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## CBU-105



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## RabzonKhan

Hillary is absolutely correct many polls have shown that large numbers of his supporters are a bunch of haters. 






* 

Clinton: Half of Trump's supporters fit in 'basket of deplorables'*

By Abby Phillip 9/9/2016

Hillary Clinton said Friday that "half" of Donald Trump's supporters could be grouped in "the basket of deplorables" at a fundraising event in New York City.

*"You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the 'basket of deplorables'. Right?" Clinton said to applause and laughter from the crowd of supporters at an LGBT for Hillary fundraiser where Barbra Streisand performed. "The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic - you name it."*

"And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up," she added.

*Clinton then noted, as she has several times in the past, that Trump has "given voice" to white supremacist and anti-Semitic voices on the Internet.*

*"He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric," Clinton said. "Now, some of those folks - they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America."*

Clinton then transitioned to a more positive message, calling for empathy for the "other half" of Trump's supporters who feel left behind by the government and the economy.

*"That other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change," Clinton said. "It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different.*

"They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead end," Clinton said. "Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well." *Link*


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## RabzonKhan

Actually, not Hillary but the madman said he loves war.

In the video the madman says he loves war and also said including with nukes.

In one interview the madman said he will nuke Isis, now just imagine that to kill one Isis terrorist he will kill thousands of innocent and this madman doesn’t give a damn.






Trump is wildly unfit to be president of the United States. He “loves war,” thinks he knows more about ISIS than the generals do, and doesn’t seem to realize the ramifications of hitting the big red nuclear button. He can’t be our president.



From 2012 Republican nominee Mitt Romney to former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, members of the GOP are worried Trump’s comments are alarming our allies and emboldening our enemies. Even Marco Rubio is worried we’re about to turn over “the nuclear codes of the United States to an erratic individual.”

See for yourself how terrifying a Trump presidency could be:


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## CBU-105



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## RabzonKhan

*"Imagine how history would judge today’s Americans if, looking back at this election, the record showed that voters empowered a dangerous man because of . . . a minor email scandal. There is no equivalence between Ms. Clinton’s wrongs and Mr. Trump’s manifest unfitness for office."*



The Post's View
*The Hillary Clinton email story is out of control

By Editorial Board September 8
*
*JUDGING BY the amount of time NBC’s Matt Lauer spent pressing Hillary Clinton on her emails during Wednesday’s national security presidential forum, one would think that her homebrew server was one of the most important issues facing the country this election. It is not. There are a thousand other substantive issues — from China’s aggressive moves in the South China Sea to National Security Agency intelligence-gathering to military spending — that would have revealed more about what the candidates know and how they would govern. Instead, these did not even get mentioned in the first of 5½ precious prime-time hours the two candidates will share before Election Day, while emails took up a third of Ms. Clinton’s time.*

Sadly, Mr. Lauer’s widely panned handling of the candidate forum was not an aberration. Judging by polls showing that voters trust Donald Trump more than Ms. Clinton, as well as other evidence, it reflects a common shorthand for this election articulated by NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick last week: “You have Donald Trump, who’s openly racist,” he said. Then, of Ms. Clinton: “I mean, we have a presidential candidate who’s deleted emails and done things illegally and is a presidential candidate. That doesn’t make sense to me, because if that was any other person, you’d be in prison.”

*In fact, Ms. Clinton’s emails have endured much more scrutiny than an ordinary person’s would have, and the criminal case against her was so thin that charging her would have been to treat her very differently. Ironically, even as the email issue consumed so much precious airtime, several pieces of news reported Wednesday should have taken some steam out of the story. First is a memo FBI Director James B. Comey sent to his staff explaining that the decision not to recommend charging Ms. Clinton was “not a cliff-hanger” and that people “chest-beating” and second-guessing the FBI do not know what they are talking about. Anyone who claims that Ms. Clinton should be in prison accuses, without evidence, the FBI of corruption or flagrant incompetence.*

Second is the emergence of an email exchange between Ms. Clinton and former secretary of state Colin Powell in which he explained that he used a private computer and bypassed State Department servers while he ran the agency, even when communicating with foreign leaders and top officials. Mr. Powell attemptedlast month to distance himself from Ms. Clinton’s practices, which is one of the many factors that made the email story look worse. Now, it seems, Mr. Powell engaged in similar behavior.

Last is a finding that 30 Benghazi-related emails that were recovered during the FBI email investigation and recently attracted big headlines had nothing significant in them. Only one, in fact, was previously undisclosed, and it contained nothing but a compliment from a diplomat. But the damage of the “30 deleted Benghazi emails” story has already been done.

Ms. Clinton is hardly blameless. She treated the public’s interest in sound record-keeping cavalierly. A small amount of classified material also moved across her private server. But it was not obviously marked as such, and there is still no evidence that national security was harmed. Ms. Clinton has also admitted that using the personal server was a mistake. The story has vastly exceeded the boundaries of the facts.

Imagine how history would judge today’s Americans if, looking back at this election, the record showed that voters empowered a dangerous man because of . . . a minor email scandal. There is no equivalence between Ms. Clinton’s wrongs and Mr. Trump’s manifest unfitness for office. *Link*


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## CBU-105

lol, the e-mail thing is hardly "minor", Assange is going to completely torpedo her with the next set of leaks. I'm betting they'll come in waves of _before_, _during_, and _after _the debates with a tremendous final tsunami of legit dirt sinking her proper just before the election.

she's going down, big league.


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## Mugwop



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## CBU-105

ILLary is sick, cant climb up the smallest step without "special needs" mods.

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## RabzonKhan

CBU-105 said:


> ILLary is sick, cant climb up the smallest step without "special needs" mods.


That’s not even Hillary Clinton in the picture, cheap propaganda alert!



How pathetic, disgusting and sick! And it’s not fake!

I wonder what kind of people are voting for him!?




Madman mocks reporter with disability

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## Nilgiri

And now the dumb hag has to back down.....

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37330420

Apologising, Mrs Clinton said: "Last night I was 'grossly generalistic' and that's never a good idea. I regret saying 'half' - that was wrong."

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## Nilgiri




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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> That’s not even Hillary Clinton in the picture, cheap propaganda alert!


*Democratic party presidential nominee Hillary Clinton stepped behind a pillar to keep the press from filming her coughing at a press conference Friday on national security issues.*

A listless, tired looking Clinton had been speaking and taking questions for about fourteen minutes when she first ended her press conference but came right back to the microphone to answer a shouted question about her rival Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump speaking to Larry King on King’s show that is on Russian owned RT.

Clinton spoke for another two minutes then abruptly cut herself off, turned and walked away, curtly saying to the press as she turned her back on them, “Thank you all.”

As soon as Clinton was behind the pillar immediately stage right a loud double cough could be heard. As Clinton stepped past the pillar her closed right hand could be seen coming down from her face, as one does when coughing.

It would appear that reports focusing attention on Clinton’s coughing fits on the campaign trail have rattled her so that she feels the need to not be seen coughing on camera.






ILLary



RabzonKhan said:


> I wonder what kind of people are voting for him!?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Madman mocks reporter with disability


lol, old, and like everything they've thrown at him so far, did not stick to teflon don, and he's rising in the polls. 

_NEW YORK (Reuters) - Republican Donald Trump appears to have carved out a wider path to the White House as a number of states including Florida and Ohio are no longer considered likely wins for Democratic rival Hillary Clinton, according to the latest Reuters/Ipsos States of the Nation project released on Saturday._

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-cl...d-electoral-lead-reuters-ipsos-135210513.html 

millions of regular Amercans are voting for him. 

















Nilgiri said:


> And now the dumb hag has to back down.....
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37330420
> 
> Apologising, Mrs Clinton said: "Last night I was 'grossly generalistic' and that's never a good idea. I regret saying 'half' - that was wrong."


sunk Romney in 2012, he never recovered from making fun of welfare recipients, couldn't pull a teflon Ron, and Trump's pounced on it retweeting obama 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/774753598970466304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/248112876240379904

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## Nilgiri

CBU-105 said:


> *Democratic party presidential nominee Hillary Clinton stepped behind a pillar to keep the press from filming her coughing at a press conference Friday on national security issues.*
> 
> A listless, tired looking Clinton had been speaking and taking questions for about fourteen minutes when she first ended her press conference but came right back to the microphone to answer a shouted question about her rival Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump speaking to Larry King on King’s show that is on Russian owned RT.
> 
> Clinton spoke for another two minutes then abruptly cut herself off, turned and walked away, curtly saying to the press as she turned her back on them, “Thank you all.”
> 
> As soon as Clinton was behind the pillar immediately stage right a loud double cough could be heard. As Clinton stepped past the pillar her closed right hand could be seen coming down from her face, as one does when coughing.
> 
> It would appear that reports focusing attention on Clinton’s coughing fits on the campaign trail have rattled her so that she feels the need to not be seen coughing on camera.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILLary
> 
> 
> lol, old, and like everything they've thrown at him so far, did not stick to teflon don, and he's rising in the polls.
> 
> _NEW YORK (Reuters) - Republican Donald Trump appears to have carved out a wider path to the White House as a number of states including Florida and Ohio are no longer considered likely wins for Democratic rival Hillary Clinton, according to the latest Reuters/Ipsos States of the Nation project released on Saturday._
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-cl...d-electoral-lead-reuters-ipsos-135210513.html
> 
> millions of regular Amercans are voting for him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sunk Romney in 2012, he never recovered from making fun of welfare recipients, couldn't pull a teflon Ron, and Trump's pounced on it retweeting obama
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/774753598970466304
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/248112876240379904



This shit just writes itself lol.


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## CBU-105

Nilgiri said:


> This shit just writes itself lol.


I know, right ? 

shame there's only 2 more months of this to go but he better win, we want 2 full terms. 

Trump season one - The primaries *starring low energy Jeb, little Marco, Lyin' Ted and Mexican rapists*

Trump season two - The General *an epic slugfest vs crooked Hillary*

Trump seasons 3 and 4 - TBD

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## maximuswarrior

Nilgiri said:


> And now the dumb hag has to back down.....
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37330420
> 
> Apologising, Mrs Clinton said: "Last night I was 'grossly generalistic' and that's never a good idea. I regret saying 'half' - that was wrong."



Something we can't expect from that racist redneck Trump after calling Mexicans rapists and what not.

Just wait till Putin takes over world politics after Trump wins the White House.



CBU-105 said:


> *Democratic party presidential nominee Hillary Clinton stepped behind a pillar to keep the press from filming her coughing at a press conference Friday on national security issues.*
> 
> A listless, tired looking Clinton had been speaking and taking questions for about fourteen minutes when she first ended her press conference but came right back to the microphone to answer a shouted question about her rival Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump speaking to Larry King on King’s show that is on Russian owned RT.
> 
> Clinton spoke for another two minutes then abruptly cut herself off, turned and walked away, curtly saying to the press as she turned her back on them, “Thank you all.”
> 
> As soon as Clinton was behind the pillar immediately stage right a loud double cough could be heard. As Clinton stepped past the pillar her closed right hand could be seen coming down from her face, as one does when coughing.
> 
> It would appear that reports focusing attention on Clinton’s coughing fits on the campaign trail have rattled her so that she feels the need to not be seen coughing on camera.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILLary
> 
> 
> lol, old, and like everything they've thrown at him so far, did not stick to teflon don, and he's rising in the polls.
> 
> _NEW YORK (Reuters) - Republican Donald Trump appears to have carved out a wider path to the White House as a number of states including Florida and Ohio are no longer considered likely wins for Democratic rival Hillary Clinton, according to the latest Reuters/Ipsos States of the Nation project released on Saturday._
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-cl...d-electoral-lead-reuters-ipsos-135210513.html
> 
> millions of regular Amercans are voting for him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sunk Romney in 2012, he never recovered from making fun of welfare recipients, couldn't pull a teflon Ron, and Trump's pounced on it retweeting obama
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/774753598970466304
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/248112876240379904



LOL at regular Americans. Of course, they just beat up black African Americans during Trump rallies, shout obscene abuse and want to vote for a bigot who has fake hair. Nothing but a KKK gang.

I'm fascinated what many Indians have to gain by supporting such a bigot? Hasn't the Democratic party done so much more for India? Has Trump promised to go after Pakistan? Is that why Indians are so supportive of Trump? LOL



Nilgiri said:


>



If we go down that road, millions of Iraqis, Syrian, Vietnamese, Japanese etc. can make a claim against the entire US state machinery. I'm just saying.


----------



## CBU-105

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL at regular Americans. Of course, they just beat up black African Americans during Trump rallies, shout obscene abuse and want to vote for a bigot who has fake hair. Nothing but a KKK gang.

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## CBU-105

looks like ILLary just had another episode of the bad healths 






* (CNN)Hillary Clinton left the 9/11 commemoration ceremony Sunday early after she felt overheated and went to her daughter's apartment, the Clinton campaign said.*

*"Secretary Clinton attended the September 11th Commemoration Ceremony for just one hour and 30 minutes this morning to pay her respects and greet some of the families of the fallen. During the ceremony, she felt overheated so departed to go to her daughter's apartment, and is feeling much better," Clinton spokesman Nick Merrill said in a statement.*

*The pool accompanying Clinton says she left the ceremony around 9:30 a.m.*

*While she was making her way into a van in her motorcade, Secret Service agents helped her into the van in the motorcade.*

*http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/11/politics/hillary-clinton-health/index.html*











clear footage of crooked hillary fainting 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/775004878703910913
and being helped up by the big black medical handler guy





a few days ago when she had a coughing fit her entourage included an ambulance





ILLary is crashing and burning big league

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## CBU-105

another clearer view


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/775000466304315393
yet another angle of #HillaryCollapse


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/775032273771040768https://twitter.com/hashtag/hillarycollapse?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^hashtag
no safety or surprise, the end.


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## anon45

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/774998045243170816

I doubt this will change any minds, it will be used as an attack by the right wing though.

She's been certified as healthy by her physician.

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/08/fake-clinton-medical-records/

Most likely cause is heat exhaustion.

This will probably be overshadowed by Hillary's likely heat exhaustion, but this is damning of Trump

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ory.html?postshare=2991473541914532&tid=ss_tw

Politics
*How Donald Trump retooled his charity to spend other people’s money*






Donald Trump was in a tuxedo, standing next to his award: a statue of a palm tree, as tall as a toddler. It was 2010, and Trump was being honored by a charity — the Palm Beach Police Foundation — for his “selfless support” of its cause.

His support did not include any of his own money.

Instead, Trump had found a way to give away somebody else’s money and claim the credit for himself.

Trump had earlier gone to a charity in New Jersey — the Charles Evans Foundation, named for a deceased businessman — and asked for a donation. Trump said he was raising money for the Palm Beach Police Foundation.

The Evans Foundation said yes. In 2009 and 2010, it gave a total of $150,000 to the Donald J. Trump Foundation, a small charity that the Republican presidential nominee founded in 1987.

Then, Trump’s foundation turned around and made donations to the police group in South Florida. In those years, the Trump Foundation’s gifts totaled $150,000.

*Trump had effectively turned the Evans Foundation’s gifts into his own gifts, without adding any money of his own.*

On the night that he won the Palm Tree Award for his philanthropy, Trump may have actually made money. The gala was held at his Mar-a-Lago Club in Palm Beach, and the police foundation paid to rent the room. It’s unclear how much was paid in 2010, but the police foundation reported in its tax filings that it rented Mar-a-Lago in 2014 for $276,463.

*What we know about Trump's charitable giving*
Embed Share 
Play Video1:24

Washington Post reporter David Fahrenthold is investigating how much Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump has given to charity over the past seven years. Here's what he found. (Sarah Parnass/The Washington Post)
The Donald J. Trump Foundation is not like other charities. An investigation of the foundation — including examinations of 17 years of tax filings and interviews with more than 200 individuals or groups listed as donors or beneficiaries — found that it collects and spends money in a very unusual manner.

For one thing, nearly all of its money comes from people other than Trump. In tax records, the last gift from Trump was in 2008. Since then, all of the donations have been other people’s money — an arrangement that experts say is almost unheard of for a family foundation.

*Trump then takes that money and generally does with it as he pleases. In many cases, he passes it on to other charities, which often are under the impression that it is Trump’s own money.*

*In two cases, he has used money from his charity to buy himself a gift. In one of those cases — not previously reported — Trump spent $20,000 of money earmarked for charitable purposes to buy a six-foot-tall painting of himself.*

Money from the Trump Foundation has also been used for political purposes, which is against the law. The Washington Post reported this month that Trump paid a penalty this year to the Internal Revenue Service for a 2013 donation in which the foundation gave $25,000 to a campaign group affiliated with Florida Attorney General Pamela Bondi (R).

*Here's what you need to know about Trump's improper gift*
Embed Share 
Play Video3:00

The Washington Post's David Fahrenthold breaks down the controversy over Donald Trump's improper $25,000 donation to a political group connected to Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi, who was at the time considering whether to open a fraud investigation against Trump University. (Sarah Parnass/The Washington Post)
Trump’s foundation appears to have repeatedly broken IRS rules, which require nonprofit groups to file accurate paperwork. In five cases, the Trump Foundation told the IRS that it had given a gift to a charity whose leaders told The Post that they had never received it. In two other cases, companies listed as donors to the Trump Foundation told The Post that those listings were incorrect.

_[Trump pays IRS a penalty for his foundation violating rules with gift to aid Florida attorney general]_

Last week, The Post submitted a detailed list of questions about the Trump Foundation to Trump’s campaign. Officials with the campaign declined to comment.

Trump and his Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton, have both been criticized during their campaigns for activities related to their foundations.

Critics have charged that the giant Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation, which employs more than 2,000 people and spends about a quarter of a billion dollars a year, has served as a way for businesses and powerful figures across the world to curry favor with one of America’s most powerful families. The Clinton Foundation has also been credited by supporters and critics alike for its charitable efforts.

_[Foundation controversy forces Clinton campaign to play defense]_

Trump has claimed that he gives generously to charity from his own pocket: “I don’t have to give you records,” he told The Post earlier this year, “but I’ve given millions away.” Efforts to verify those gifts have not succeeded, and Trump has refused to release his tax returns, which would show his charitable giving.

That leaves the Trump Foundation as the best window into the GOP nominee’s philanthropy.

In the past several days, questions about Trump’s foundation have focused on the gift to Bondi’s group in 2013. At the time the money arrived, Bondi’s office was considering whether to launch an investigation into allegations of fraud by Trump University — accusations that Trump denies.

The investigation never started. Aides to Bondi and Trump say the gift and the case were unrelated. But Democrats have seized on what they see as a clear example of political influence improperly funded by Trump’s charity.

“The foundation was being used basically to promote a moneymaking fraudulent venture of Donald Trump’s. That’s not what charities are supposed to do,” Virginia Sen. Tim Kaine, Clinton’s running mate, said Friday. “I hope there’s a significant effort to get to the bottom of it and find out whether this is the end.”

*A threadbare operation*
Trump started his foundation in 1987 with a narrow purpose: to give away some of the proceeds from his book “The Art of the Deal.”

Nearly three decades later, the Trump Foundation is still a threadbare, skeletal operation.

The most money it has ever reported having was $3.2 million at the end of 2009. At last count, that total had shrunk to $1.3 million. By comparison, Oprah Winfrey — who is worth $1.5 billion less than Trump, according to a Forbes magazine estimate — has a foundation with $242 million in the bank. At the end of 2014, the Clinton Foundation had $440 million in assets.

In a few cases, Trump seemed to solicit donations only to immediately give them away. But his foundation has also received a handful of bigger donations — including $5 million from professional-wrestling executives Vince and Linda McMahon — that Trump handed out a little at a time.

The foundation has no paid staffers. It has an unpaid board consisting of four Trumps — Donald, Ivanka, Eric and Donald Jr. — and one Trump Organization employee.

In 2014, at last report, each said they worked a half-hour a week.

The Trump Foundation still gives out small, scattered gifts — which seem driven by the demands of Trump’s businesses and social life, rather than by a desire to support charitable causes.

The foundation makes a few dozen donations a year, usually in amounts from $1,000 to $50,000. It gives to charities that rent Trump’s ballrooms. It gives to charities whose leaders buttonholed Trump on the golf course (and then try, in vain, to get him to offer a repeat donation the next year).

It even gives in situations in which Trump publicly put himself on the hook for a donation — as when he promised a gift “out of my wallet” on NBC’s “The Celebrity Apprentice.” The Trump Foundation paid off most of those on-air promises. A TV production company paid others. The Post could find no instance in which a celebrity’s charity got a gift from Trump’s own wallet.

Another time, Trump went on TV’s “Extra” for a contest called “Trump pays your bills!”

A professional spray-tanner won. The Trump Foundation paid her bills.


















" style="font-family: FranklinITCProLight, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; margin: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 12px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; float: left; width: 119px; height: 30px; display: table-cell; border-radius: 3px 0px 0px 3px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); position: absolute; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;">
*What Donald Trump is doing on the campaign trail*





View Photos
The GOP presidential nominee is out on the trail ahead of the general election in November.
A rarity among charities
About 10 years ago, the Trump Foundation underwent a major change — although it was invisible to those who received its gifts.

The checks still had Trump’s name on them.

Behind the scenes, he was transforming the foundation from a standard-issue rich person’s philanthropy into a charity that allowed a rich man to be philanthropic for free.

Experts on charity said they had rarely seen anything like it.

“Our common understanding of charity is you give something of yourself to help somebody else. It’s not something that you raise money from one side to spend it on the other,” said Leslie Lenkowsky, the former head of the Corporation for National and Community Service, and a professor studying philanthropy at Indiana University.

By that definition, was Trump engaging in charity?

No, Lenkowsky said.

“It’s a deal,” he said, an arrangement worked out for maximum benefit at minimum sacrifice.

In the Trump Foundation’s early days, between 1987 and 2006, Trump actually was its primary donor. Over that span, Trump gave his own foundation a total of $5.4 million. But he was giving it away as fast as he put it in, and by the start of 2007, the foundation’s assets had dropped to $4,238.

Then, Trump made a change.

First, he stopped giving his own money.

His contribution shrank to $35,000 in 2007.

Then to $30,000 in 2008.

Then to $0.

At the same time, Trump’s foundation began to fill with money from other people.

But in many other cases, his biggest donors have not wanted to say why they gave their own money, when Trump was giving none of his.

“I don’t have time for this. Thank you,” said Richard Ebers, a ticket broker in New York City who has given the Trump Foundation $1.9 million since 2011.

“No. No. No. I’m not going to comment on anything. I’m not answering any of your questions,” said John Stark, the chief executive of a carpet company that has donated $64,000 over the years.

Vince and Linda McMahon declined to comment.

So did NBCUniversal, which donated $500,000 in 2012. Its gift more than covered the “personal” donations that Trump offered at dramatic moments on “The Celebrity Apprentice” — then paid for out of the Trump Foundation.

Trump’s donations to the Palm Beach Police Foundation offered a stark example of Trump turning somebody else’s gift into his own charity.

Tax experts said they had rarely heard of anything like what Trump had done, converting another donor’s gift into his own.

“I question whether it’s ethical. It’s certainly misleading. But I think it’s legal, because you would think that the other foundation that’s . . . being taken advantage of would look out for their own interests,” saidRosemary E. Fei, an attorney in San Francisco who has advised hundreds of small foundations. “That’s their decision to let him do that.”

After three years, the Charles Evans Foundation stopped using Trump as a middleman.

“We realized we don’t need to do it through a pass-through,” said Bonnie Pfeifer Evans, the widow of Charles Evans and a trustee of the now-defunct foundation.

In 2012, the Charles Evans Foundation stopped giving money to the Trump Foundation.

In 2013, according to tax records, the Trump Foundation stopped giving to the Palm Beach Police Foundation.

The police group, which gave Trump the award, did not know that Trump’s money had come from somebody else’s pocket. It could not explain why he gave in some years but not others — or why he gave in the amounts he did.

“He’s the unpredictable guy, right?” said John F. Scarpa, the Palm Beach Police Foundation’s president, before The Post informed him about how Trump got the money. He said Trump’s giving wasn’t the only reason he got the award. He also could be counted on to draw a crowd to the group’s annual event. The amount paid to Trump’s club was first reported by BuzzFeed.

The police group still holds its galas at Mar-a-Lago.

Acts of ‘self-dealing’
At the same time that it began to rely on other people’s money, the Trump Foundation sometimes appeared to flout IRS rules by purchasing things that seemed to benefit only Trump.

In 2007, for instance, Trump and his wife, Melania, attended a benefit for a children’s charity held at Mar-a-Lago. The night’s entertainment was Michael Israel, who bills himself as “the original speed painter.” His frenetic act involved painting giant portraits in five to seven minutes — then auctioning off the art he’d just created.

He painted Trump.

Melania Trump bid $10,000.

Nobody tried to outbid her.

“The auctioneer was just pretty bold, so he said, ‘You know what just happened: When you started bidding, nobody’s going to bid against you, and I think it’s only fair that you double the bid,’ ” Israel said in an interview last week.

Melania Trump increased her bid to $20,000.

“I understand it went to one of his golf courses,” Israel said of the painting.

The Trump Foundation paid the $20,000, according to the charity that held the benefit.

Something similar happened in 2012, when Trump himself won an auction for a football helmet autographed by football player Tim Tebow, then a quarterback with the Denver Broncos.

The winning bid was $12,000. As The Post reported in July, the Trump Foundation paid.

IRS rules generally prohibit acts of “self-dealing,” in which a charity’s leaders use the nonprofit group’s money to buy things for themselves.

In both years, IRS forms asked whether the foundation had broken those rules: Had it “furnish[ed] goods, services or facilities” to Trump or another of its officers?

In both years, the Trump Foundation checked “no.”

Tax experts said Trump could have avoided violating the self-dealing rules if he gave the helmet and the painting to other charities instead of keeping them. Trump’s staffers have not said where the two items are now.

The IRS penalties for acts of “self-dealing” can include penalty taxes, both on charities and on their leaders as individuals.

In other cases, the Trump Foundation’s tax filings appeared to include listings that were incorrect.



The Washington Post has contacted more than 250 charities with some ties to the GOP nominee in an effort to find proof of the millions he has said he donated. We've been mostly unsuccessful.VIEW GRAPHIC 
The most prominent example is the improper political donation to the group affiliated with Bondi, the Florida attorney general, in 2013. In that case, Trump’s staffers said a series of errors resulted in the payment being made — and then hidden from the IRS.

First, Trump officials said, when the request came down to cut a check to the Bondi group, a Trump Organization clerk followed internal protocol and consulted a book with the names of known charities.

The name of the pro-Bondi group is “And Justice for All.” Trump’s staffer saw that name in the book, and — mistakenly — cut the check from the Trump Foundation. The group in the book was an entirely different charity in Utah, unrelated to Bondi’s group in Florida.

Somehow, the money got to Florida anyway.

Then, Trump’s staffers said, the foundation’s accounting firm made another mistake: It told the IRS that the $25,000 had gone to a third charity, based in Kansas, called Justice for All. In reality, the Kansas group got no money.

“That was just a complete mess-up on names. Anything that could go wrong did go wrong,” Jeffrey McConney, the Trump Organization’s controller, told The Post last week. After The Post pointed out these errors in the spring, Trump paid a $2,500 penalty tax.

Donations not received
In four other cases, The Post found charities that said they never received donations that the Trump Foundation said it gave them.

The amounts were small: $10,000 in 2008, $5,000 in 2010, $10,000 in 2012. Most of the charities had no idea that Trump had said he had given them money.

One did.

This January, the phone rang at a tiny charity in White River Junction, Vt., called Friends of Veterans. This was just after Trump had held a televised fundraiser for veterans in Iowa, raising more than $5 million.

The man on the phone was a Trump staffer who was selecting charities that would receive the newly raised money. He said the Vermont group was already on Trump’s list, because the Trump Foundation had given it $1,000 in 2013.

“I don’t remember a donation from the Trump Foundation,” said Larry Daigle, the group’s president, who was a helicopter gunner with the Army during the Vietnam War. “The guy seemed pretty surprised about this.”

The man went away from the phone. He came back.

Was Daigle sure? He was.

The man thanked him. He hung up. Daigle waited — hopes raised — for the Trump people to call back.

“Oh, my God, do you know how many homeless veterans I could help?” Daigle told The Post this spring, while he was waiting.

Trump gave away the rest of the veterans money in late May.

Daigle’s group got none of it.

_[Media scrutiny over charitable donations to veterans riles up Trump]_

In two other cases, the Trump Foundation reported to the IRS that it had received donations from two companies that have denied making such gifts. In 2013, for instance, the Trump Foundation said it had received a $100,000 donation from the Clancy Law Firm, whose offices are in a Trump-owned building on Wall Street.

“That’s incorrect,” said Donna Clancy, the firm’s founder, when The Post called. “I’m not answering any questions.”

Local Politics Alerts

Breaking news about local government in D.C., Md., Va.

She hung up and did not respond to requests for comment afterward.

“All of these things show that the [Trump] foundation is run in a less-than-ideal manner. But that’s not at all unusual for small, private foundations, especially those run by a family,” said Brett Kappel, a Washington attorney who advises tax-exempt organizations. “Usually, you have an accounting firm that has access to the bank statements, and they’re the ones who find these errors and correct them.”

The Trump Foundation’s accountants are at WeiserMazars, a New York-based firm. The Post sent them a detailed list of questions, asking them to explain these possible errors.

The firm declined to comment.



Rosalind S. Helderman contributed 
to this report.

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## CBU-105

anon45 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/774998045243170816


lol, weak sauce is weak

she is no teflon Don, this will stick just like her e-mails have stuck, someone should tell her that Assange is all set to release another 10,000 more of her "C" documents in the coming few weeks as well... 







or maybe not, because that'll probably give her another stroke 


game over for crooked killary/hitlery/call it what you will. 











and on 9/11 no less  

the symbolicness, symbolicity, symbolicicity, symbolic significance of this can not be downplayed

thankfully for the USA, Mr Trump has been ready for this for at least 35 years now

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## anon45

CBU-105 said:


> lol, weak sauce is weak
> 
> she is no teflon Don, this will stick just like her e-mails have stuck, someone should tell her that Assange is all set to release another 10,000 more of her "C" documents in the coming few weeks as well...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or maybe not, because that'll probably give her another stroke
> 
> 
> game over for crooked killary/hitlery/call it what you will.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and on 9/11 no less
> 
> the symbolicness, symbolicity, symbolicicity, symbolic significance of this can not be downplayed
> 
> thankfully for the USA, Mr Trump has been ready for this for at least 35 years now



Evidently you've never had or seen someone close to you faint from heat exhaustion, how lucky of you.

Certainly its bad optics that will serve as media fodder for the conservatives, but it won't become a decision changer.

Frankly, her email's haven't stuck. that's precisely why the alt rights have moved on to her deplorable comment and her health. They wrung everything they could from the emails and Libya and it hasn't made a difference.



http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

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## CBU-105

what, you seriously think she can wiggle out of this one too ?

we know the mainstream media will try their best to cover for her but we're not talking about "far right conspiracy" loons speculating anymore, they have her on camera, fainting, the optics aren't just bad, they're damning, just like her e-mails have been, the veteran on the CiC forum destroyed her with his e-mail question 






of course they have stuck, and there's major incoming, at least 10,000 more... 

her campaign is over, its been decided, the whole thing is rigged anyway, lets just hope the Donald doesn't destroy the world because white power kkk nazis

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## Nilgiri

Braying She A$$ is out for sure now....her ego just cant keep up with her body.

All Trump has to do is "you ok honey"? at the debate and let the whole audience laugh.

Karma for being what she is.....which I will not describe here

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## anon45

Nilgiri said:


> Braying She A$$ is out for sure now....her ego just cant keep up with her body.
> 
> All Trump has to do is "you ok honey"? at the debate and let the whole audience laugh.
> 
> Karma for being what she is.....which I will not describe here



The format for a presidential debate is different from a primary debate. If Trump is counting on rousing the crowd he's going to be in for a bad time. The audience is not allowed to make noise.

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## Nilgiri

anon45 said:


> The format for a presidential debate is different from a primary debate. If Trump is counting on rousing the crowd he's going to be in for a bad time. The audience is not allowed to make noise.



The crowd that matters are the ones that are at home watching....esp the undecided/unsure voters in the swing states.

When a judge asks the jury to "disregard" something....you think the jury can purge it 100% effectively?

Trump knows what words to insert to make BSA collapse on her wrinkled hag behind with or without "pneumonia". Just need to sit back and watch.

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## anon45

Nilgiri said:


> The crowd that matters are the ones that are at home watching....esp the undecided/unsure voters in the swing states.
> 
> When a judge asks the jury to "disregard" something....you think the jury can purge it 100% effectively?
> 
> Trump knows what words to insert to make BSA collapse on her wrinkled hag behind with or without "pneumonia". Just need to sit back and watch.



Trump's quips are going to fall flat to anyone who isn't a supporter already without a crowd to whip up.

Otherwise this isn't going to change anyones decision on whether to vote for Hillary or Trump unless she becomes bedridden or passes away.

I know how much you want that to happen, but the most likely course of events is this dies out by the debate or shortly after, possibly sooner if Trump opens his mouth.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-has-pneumonia-doctor-says-228012



> *Hillary Clinton has pneumonia, doctor says*
> By GABRIEL DEBENEDETTI
> 
> 
> 09/11/16 05:25 PM EDT
> 
> 
> Updated 09/11/16 06:21 PM EDT
> 
> Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
> NEW YORK — Hillary Clinton was diagnosed with pneumonia on Friday, her doctor said in a statement Sunday after the Democratic nominee left a 9/11 memorial ceremony due to what her campaign said was overheating.
> 
> "Secretary Clinton has been experiencing a cough related to allergies. On Friday, during follow up evaluation of her prolonged cough, she was diagnosed with pneumonia," her doctor, Lisa Bardack, said. "She was put on antibiotics, and advised to rest and modify her schedule. While at this morning's event, she became overheated and dehydrated. I have just examined her and she is now re-hydrated and recovering nicely."
> 
> Story Continued Below
> 
> 
> Bardack examined Clinton at her home in Chappaqua after she returned from New York City on Sunday afternoon.
> 
> Clinton is due in California for a series of fundraisers on Monday and Tuesday.
> 
> A senior Clinton aide said her upcoming campaign trip to California is currently under discussion. Clinton is due in both San Francisco and Los Angeles over Monday and Tuesday.
> 
> People who were due to see her on this West Coast trip said they had not heard from the campaign about its status as of early Sunday evening.
> 
> Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-has-pneumonia-doctor-says-228012#ixzz4Jzk0VD00
> Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook


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## CBU-105

Hillary's campaign logo revised

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## Nilgiri



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## CBU-105

Nilgiri said:


>


lmao, what a shitstorm, fkin love it ! 

moar:

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## Solomon2

KLAVAN ON THE CULTURE
*An Election of Corrupt Elites vs. the Mob*




BY ANDREW KLAVAN SEPTEMBER 11, 2016





The more I watch this election unfold, the more it seems we have chosen two candidates to represent our moment exactly: a struggle for power between a corrupt elite and an angry mob.

Our elites — by which I mean those in power and the media who support them — are corrupt all right. Imperious and entitled too. They believe they have the unbridled right to declare our laws, take our money, make our decisions, govern our opinions and distort the flow of our information in order to stay in power. That a major presidential candidate could collapse at a public event and have the news media essentially black out and then under-report the story is simply the latest example of just how rotten and collusive these true deplorables are.

On the other side is the mob. The mob is what a people become when they are governed badly, when they grow — justifiably — angry beyond reason. We in America are used to thinking of "We, the people," with respect. But when the people become a mob there's little to respect in them. When the people become a mob, you are way more likely to get crucifixions and guillotines than a fresh adherence to constitutional law.

A corrupt and rancid elite could have no better representative than Hillary Clinton. Even her body is rotten. Stories of her destroying the evidence of her dishonesty with hammers and digital acid — while the media cry, "There's no smoking gun!" — are simply a narrative enactment of the state of our government and their Pravda; their venality and, again, entitlement.

Remember the startled faces of the congressmen who returned home to their enraged constituents after they crammed Obamacare down the throats of an unwilling populace in 2010? They were _annoyed_ to discover that the people expected their representatives to represent them! I still recall California Congressman Pete Stark explaining to one woman that, "I think that there are very few constitutional limits that would prevent the federal government from rules that could effect your private life.... The federal government, yes, can do most anything in this country."

What would our founding fathers have said about Stark's comments after they were done hanging him? Yet Stark's attitude is the attitude that Hillary embodies.

And in the mob's corner: Donald Trump. Mobs are angry, dishonest, brazen, unpredictable and with a penchant for violence. So is he. Like corrupt elites, mobs also feel entitled. They think because their anger is justified, it ennobles their base bigotries. They think because their anger is justified it puts them above logic and principle. They think because their anger is justified it trumps their obligation to decency. One only has to listen to the uglier voices of Trump's alt-right supporters to know that, for all their pseudo-intellectualism, they are the mob in the flesh.

I'm an American. My heart is always with the people. Even knowing I'd be on the list of those to be guillotined, I can never quite give my support to the let-them-eat-cakers: a ruling class and media so dirty, so haughty, so dishonest, so bad. I cannot for the life of me understand those of integrity who feel real enthusiasm for The Donald. But even feeling the way I do about him, I can't help rooting for him somewhere deep down.

It's going to get ugly if he wins. But then, to these eyes, it's pretty damned ugly now.


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## CBU-105

Solomon2 said:


> I'm an American. My heart is always with the people. Even knowing I'd be on the list of those to be guillotined, I can never quite give my support to the let-them-eat-cakers: a ruling class and media so dirty, so haughty, so dishonest, so bad. I cannot for the life of me understand those of integrity who feel real enthusiasm for The Donald. But even feeling the way I do about him, I can't help rooting for him somewhere deep down.
> 
> It's going to get ugly if he wins. But then, to these eyes, it's pretty damned ugly now.


and is that how you feel about it as well ? @Solomon2


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## Nilgiri

CBU-105 said:


> and is that how you feel about it as well ? @Solomon2



How I feel about it:






@Desert Fox 

@MarkusS I was wondering what you think of Trump and Hillary

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## RabzonKhan

Damn wow, looks likes Trump supporters have gone insane, some of them are behaving like Hillary is already dead and Trump has become the president of United States.

And as usual they’re spreading all kinds of conspiracy theories and are totally ignoring the simple fact that Hillary became overheated and dehydrated at the 9/11 ceremony.

Sorry to disappoint you people, but here’s Hillary after relaxing at her daughter’s apartment:


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> that Hillary became overheated



80 degrees Fahrenheit? Its a lot hotter where she is going

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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> Damn wow, looks likes Trump supporters have gone insane, some of them are behaving like Hillary is already dead and Trump has become the president of United States.
> 
> And as usual they’re spreading all kinds of conspiracy theories and are totally ignoring the simple fact that Hillary became overheated and dehydrated at the 9/11 ceremony.
> 
> Sorry to disappoint you people, but here’s Hillary after relaxing at her daughter’s apartment:


what else, Rabzon, that she only a stumbled because she got "overheated", really ? in 28 degrees heat 

she passed out because she has serious neurological issues.






crooked ILLary is done for, game over.

meanwhile Trump destroyed her in his speech to the national guard:






and at another huge rally:

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## CBU-105

Nilgiri said:


> @Desert Fox
> 
> @MarkusS I was wondering what you think of Trump and Hillary


bit of a shame that with one of the biggest and most consequential events unfolding in this current US general election cycle, there is such poor participation in this thread from Americans on the forum.


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## CBU-105

crooked Hillary's doctor had her take a _squeeze my fingers _neurological test moments before she collapsed: 





https://informatics.med.nyu.edu/modules/pub/neurosurgery/motor.html






she was also seen disrespectfully chatting away while Mr Trump stood solemnly listening as they were announcing the victims' names.

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## Nilgiri

CBU-105 said:


> crooked Hillary's doctor had her take a _squeeze my fingers _neurological test moments before she collapsed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://informatics.med.nyu.edu/modules/pub/neurosurgery/motor.html
> 
> View attachment 334067
> 
> 
> she was also seen disrespectfully chatting away while Mr Trump stood solemnly listening as they were announcing the victims' names.



There is a problem that people with Parkinsons have....if they stay silent/still for long periods of time....they go into a bit of a comatose state that takes time for them to recover from (and it will be obvious to everyone watching). So she has to keep fidgeting/talking basically to prevent that....its a coping mechanism. But her collapse definitely has everyone asking questions now anyway.....can't hide forever!

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## RabzonKhan

Hillary was diagnosed with pneumonia, she will recover with medication and some rest, but on the other hand, we have a racist demagogue madman with the horrible temperament, the choice is clear, Hillary for president!



*Hillary powers through pneumonia — because that’s what women do

Why is it surprising that the presidential candidate kept working even while ill? Women do it every day

MARY ELIZABETH WILLIAMS




*
Hillary Clinton waves after leaving an apartment building Sunday, Sept. 11, 2016, in New York. (Credit: AP/Andrew Harnik)

*As the cover of nearly every newspaper and news site in America made abundantly clear Monday morning, Hillary Clinton, the Democratic candidate for president of the United States, cut short her appearance at 9/11 memorial ceremony on Sunday and later disclosed that she’d been diagnosed on Friday with pneumonia. In a more normal world and in a more normal year, that information might receive a public round of supportive get well wishes, and then we’d move on. But these, as we are painfully aware, are not normal times.

Clinton’s health has been a front and center topic of public speculation and armchair diagnoses for several months now, all couched in the vague concern about whether this woman — this woman with actual political experience and knowledge — is less qualified to run the country than her Twitter-troll reality-show-star opponent. *It’s a popular old ploy: Ladies, aren’t you too weak to do this stuff? Why don’t you just sit down and have a lemonade and leave the heavy lifting of running the world to the menfolk, dear? To which I say: You have got to be kidding me.

Powering through is what women do. Last month, Chinese Olympic swimmer Fu Yuanhui managed to shock the world by admitting that she’d had her period and had been feeling “a bit weak and really tired” during a medley relay. It was as if the reality that most of the 12- to 55-year-old female population of the planet still manages to get stuff done every single month was a revelation.

Three years ago, Jennifer Lawrence was diagnosed with pneumonia at the height of awards season, and though she scaled back some on her public appearances, she still managed to show up looking stellar in time to pick up her “Silver Linings Playbook” Oscar. *Read more*

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## RabzonKhan

While the desperate trailer trash supporters of the madman were all over the web disgracefully celebrating Hillary’s illness and a million conspiracies, Hillary (the next president) emerged from her daughter’s apartment about two hours later, looking upbeat and healthy waved at the crowds, telling them, “it’s a beautiful day in New York”, and a reporter asked her if she feeling better, a smiling Hillary said, “yes thank you very much”.

Now think about it people, how can someone “seriously ill”, recover in two hours, walk on her own, smile and wave at the crowd?!







@CBU-105 @Nilgiri, you both talk about temperature, but very conveniently forgot that Hillary was diagnosed with pneumonia and was taking antibiotics, and one does not have to be a doctor to know when you are taking antibiotics and have pneumonia you are not supposed to stand in the sun, don’t forget she was standing there for 90 minutes before she felt sick.

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## Mugwop

*For Indian Americans, hate finally has a name: Trump *
This was his first Thanksgiving and the first time his white hosts had seen an Indian man. Before dinner, he was invited to the grocery store and his friend’s father grabbed a rifle off the shelf and placed it in the bed of his truck. This was the South, my dad was told, and others might not like him because of the color of his skin. So he went to the store and faced a few mean stares, but was ignored. Welcome to America.

Indian Americans are lucky. Police aren’t killing us in unprecedented numbers, and government policy isn’t designed to kick us out. Some of the insults hurled my way growing up—sand nigger, camel jockey, raghead—show a lack of understanding of who we are by clumping us with others who are more persecuted. Our history in this nation is not marked by civil rights milestones. Perhaps because of this, we are often seen as soft, a minority that should be pleased with its good position in America.

I thought about this a few months ago at a Donald Trump rally in Chicago. It was as advertised: a white supremacist fever dream, like a hyper-stylized cartoon version of hate. Mobs of white men and women yelled at crowds of young black and Muslim and Mexican protesters who told me they felt like caged animals on display at the zoo. To first-generation Indian Americans like me, Trump is _that_ racist white guy: a villain in a Bollywood movie making life unsafe for those with brown skin. He’s tapped into a fear that despite growing up in this nation, we still don’t belong. And yet, in a campaign dripping with explicit xenophobia, he’s done all this while mostly ignoring us.


“_We are from India_,” Trump said in Delaware, pretending to be a call center worker in an accent that was actually not that bad, more Amitabh Bachchan than Kwik-E-Mart. Our only other mention came earlier this year when he said that “India is doing great. Nobody talks about it.” Well, yeah. (Likely Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton was photographed carrying to-go bags of tandoori and chicken makhani, but that doesn’t count.)

If you listen closely, though, Trump’s said some things. He’s proposed a ban on Muslim immigration (10% of Indian Americans are Muslims, and there are 180 million Muslims in India); mocked a Sikh man in a red turban who was kicked out of a rally (“He wasn’t wearing one of those red hats, was he?”); and answered a town hall question about hate speech against religious minorities like Sikh Americans by talking about ISIS. “I was stunned,” Brian Murphy, a police lieutenant who survived a mass shooting at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin despite being hit 15 times, and who asked Trump the question, told me. “It really had nothing to do with the question whatsoever.”

But for a man preoccupied with size, we’re just not big enough. Asian Americans only made up 3% of voters in 2012, and Indian Americans—despite being one of the largest immigration populations, with 3.2 million people (1% of the nation)—only constitute a fraction of that number. Campaigns are also less likely to court citizens who haven’t voted in past elections, and the overwhelming majority of Indian American adults are first-generation immigrants, who vote at a lower rate than second- and third-generation immigrants. And historically, we’ve been overwhelmingly Democratic: A whopping 84% of Indian Americans voted for Obama in 2008.

Still, Indian Americans possess characteristics that would make them natural Republicans: a high level of income (in 2010, the median income was $88,000) and culturally conservative views. A study by the National Asian American Survey after the 2012 election found that “if either major party made significant investments to engage with Asian American and Pacific Islander voters, they could reap significant advantages over the next decade.” (I’m not including the sort-of-real PAC Indian Americans for Trump, whose leaders told me they don’t raise money, are “loose” with membership numbers, and peddle conspiracy theories about Clinton and Huma Abedin being in bed with Pakistan.)


In another study, Asian Americans were pushed to the left by racial micro-aggressions, or harmless statements that implied that they are not true Americans (“You would love my Indian friend!” for example), or when clumped under restrictive legislation with other minorities (like when reminded of a law that requires immigration checks for both Mexicans and Indians). “The Republican Party could try to capitalize on divisions between Asian Americans and other minorities, emphasizing how Democratic policies benefit other groups at their expense,” the paper concluded. “But doing that successfully would require a level of political dexterity that Republicans haven’t shown much of late.” Neil Malhotra, a professor of political economy at Stanford and one of the authors, told me that Republican rhetoric, especially on immigration, makes Indian people feel unwelcome.

Jay Caspian Kang wrote in _The New York Times_ that immigrant populations like us, who believe they are on the “march to whiteness,” “seldom engage in the sort of political advocacy and discourse that might explain, or even defend, our odd, singular and tenuous status as Americans.” As we defend this fragile position as Americans while also finding our own political voice, the illusion that Indian Americans stand squarely on the side of African Americans and Muslims and Mexicans will be challenged. Was Peter Liang, the Chinese American cop who shot an unarmed black man to death, a scapegoat because he was Asian, or was his lack of prison time an injustice? Is keeping ISIS and jihadis out enough of a reason to racially profile Muslims? Is immigration—where Indians have accounted for more than 56% of all H1-B visas, or visas for specialized jobs like science and tech—a common racial justice issue, or are voters held hostage by Democrats fighting to pass legislation for low-skilled immigration?

What does this mean for 2016? Trump is not the man to win any Indian American voters. But since both candidates stand to gain few votes by engaging us nationally, the best political course is to ignore us. As the saying goes, Indians don’t complain, we adjust and assimilate.

Remember, November is not a referendum on racism. If we consider the Trump campaign as not just a means to the presidency, but an end itself, then he has already made his mark. Sure, he’s damaged the way we talk about race in this country. But he’s also accurately displaying the level of racial discourse in America right now. He has shown us so clearly that a huge portion of this country is stuck in 1916. Black people are thugs. Mexicans take jobs and are rapists. Muslims should be kept out, and Sikhs and Indians look like Muslims. Asians are good and obedient.

In the setting of a Make America Great Again rally, this obedience means shutting up and letting the audience soak up Trump’s vision of exclusivity. It means shaving before to look less Middle Eastern, and thinking that Trump supporters would recognize a “harmless” Indian, when I looked every bit as brown as those there to protest. It means, even for a moment, buying into the idea that any hard-earned progress made in this country will be wiped away by standing up against discrimination that doesn’t include me.

For a people who are at once too “white” and whose self-identity crisis is too inconsequential to be visible in the national conversation about race, Trump has done something spectacular. For the first time in my lifetime, at least, the hate my parents warned of has a name. It’s in big letters on a skyscraper on the Chicago River a few dozen miles from where I grew up. It hung outside a high-rise I lived in years ago by the Hudson River—a tiny one-bedroom apartment turned into two by the construction of a wall that cut the living room in half, blocked the windows, and blotted out the sun. It’s a reminder of how my dad felt at that grocery store 37 years ago, and every single slight since. Soon, it might be in the White House.

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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> how can someone “seriously ill”, recover in two hours, walk on her own, smile and wave at the crowd?!


easy, they pump her full of drugs to get through a 2 minute scripted media appearance where, as usual, she doesn't take any questions.












__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/775846548991115269

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## RabzonKhan

Good news for the US, good news for Pres. Obama, good news for Hillary Clinton, but bad, bad, bad news for Donnie.

Middle-class incomes had their fastest growth on record last year, according to the Census Bureau. Median household income increase from $53,700 to $56,500 in 2015, the 5.2% increase was the largest in percentage terms since 1960s.

The poverty rate fell by 1.2% points, improved job market and low inflation. *Link*





CBU-105 said:


> easy, *they pump her full of drugs to get through a 2 minute scripted media appearance* where, as usual, she doesn't take any questions.


Below the belt, I think you can do better than that.


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## RabzonKhan

Wow, some interesting stuff, the former (Republican) Secretary of State Colin Powell calls Trump a “national disgrace”.

The former secretary of state also blasted the Republican nominee for president for embarking on a “racist” movement, according to his private emails seen by BuzzFeed News.

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell, a retired four-star general who served under three Republican presidents, slammed GOP nominee Donald Trump as “a national disgrace” and an “international pariah,” according to his personal emails seen by BuzzFeed News.

“Yup, the whole birther movement was racist,” Powell wrote. “That’s what the 99% believe. When Trump couldn’t keep that up he said he also wanted to see if the certificate noted that he was a Muslim.”

“As I have said before, ‘What if he was?’ Muslims are born as Americans everyday,” Powell wrote to his former aide. *Link*

"Colin Powell, a retired four-star general who served under three Republican presidents, slammed Donald Trump’s closest military adviser, retired Gen. Michael Flynn, as “right-wing nutty” and “a jerk” according to the former secretary of state’s personal emails seen by BuzzFeed News." *Link*


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## RabzonKhan

Told you, he is a damn Russian agent, it’s time to bring him to justice.


*WikiLeaks drops latest Guccifer 2.0 data on Hillary Clinton, DNC, Democrats
*
The organisation posted a tweet at around 9am on Wednesday Sydney time, with links that promised access to 678.4 megabytes of new "DNC documents".

Other slides discuss the outcome of past get-out-the-vote campaigns.

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton was US secretary of state when WikiLeaks released hundreds of thousands of State Department emails in 2010.

The latest document dump comes after an earlier tranche of emails, reportedly hacked by Guccifer 2.0, prompted the resignation of politicians within the Democratic Party on the eve of the party's convention.

*WikiLeaks, in the guise of transparency, has emerged as a key antagonist in the US election, publishing information mixed with speculation and conspiracy theory material on social media, aimed at embarrassing Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.*

*In the earlier event, the data is thought to have been acquired by hackers associated with Russia.

WikiLeaks, too, has been suspected of working to advance Russian talking points in recent years.

US officials are now investigating whether Russia is pursuing a campaign to influence the outcome of the US presidential election between Ms Clinton and Republican candidate Donald Trump.

US-based intelligence expert Malcolm Nance said WikiLeaks is acting as a conduit for Guccifer 2.0 which, he says, is a joint operation for Russian intelligence groups, the FSB and the GRU.

Nance said Assange has a long history of dislike for Clinton.

"He's in FSB hands and he doesn't care," Nance said.
*
WikiLeaks denied the claims that the organisation was being manipulated by a nation state. 

"The accusations are false and defamatory," a spokesman for WikiLeaks said.

"The motivation for them is transparent: our pending publications on Hillary Clinton's campaign."

WikiLeaks also defended the quality of the information it disclosed.

"WikiLeaks has a perfect record for verification," the organisation told Fairfax Media. 

*In response to the latest data exposure via WikiLeaks, interim chairwoman of the DNC Donna Brazile said the Democratic Party was "the victim of a crime - an illegal cyber attack by Russian state-sponsored agents who seek to harm the Democratic Party and progressive groups in an effort to influence the presidential election."*

*"There's only one person who stands to benefit from these criminal acts, and that's Donald Trump," she said, pointing to his rhetorical "embrace" of Russian president Vladimir Putin.*

Trump often spoken highly of the Russian president. The Republican's public admiration of the Russian leader has caused consternation across the political spectrum in the US.

The DNC's legal team was reviewing the "private documents" and attempting to confirm their authenticity, "as it is common for Russian hackers to forge documents."

Brazile took over as the DNC chairwoman in July after Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigned in the wake of an earlier Guccifer 2.0 data release. 

Brazile added that "We would urge anyone attempting to access these documents to proceed with extreme caution given the potential malware risks."

Australia-based information security researcher Lee Johnstone also expressed concern about the possibility of malware on hacked and leaked documents.

"Checking documents and leaks like this should always be conducted in a safe environment on a decentralised virtual machine," he said. *Link*


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## CBU-105

FULL EVENT: Donald Trump Holds Rally in Canton, OH 9/14/16

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## ptldM3

RabzonKhan said:


> While the desperate trailer trash supporters of the madman were all over the web disgracefully celebrating Hillary’s illness and a million conspiracies, Hillary (the next president) emerged from her daughter’s apartment about two hours later, looking upbeat and healthy waved at the crowds, telling them, “it’s a beautiful day in New York”, and a reporter asked her if she feeling better, a smiling Hillary said, “yes thank you very much”.
> 
> Now think about it people, how can someone “seriously ill”, recover in two hours, walk on her own, smile and wave at the crowd?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @CBU-105 @Nilgiri, you both talk about temperature, but very conveniently forgot that Hillary was diagnosed with pneumonia and was taking antibiotics, and one does not have to be a doctor to know when you are taking antibiotics and have pneumonia you are not supposed to stand in the sun, don’t forget she was standing there for 90 minutes before she felt sick.




Typical Liberal Hilary supporter. Everyone that supports trump is "trailer trash" and racist white trash  See the irony? Looking at dozens of videos of trashy Hillary supporters use violence and racial slurs at trump supporters is epic.


Hilary is great...great at lying, everything she says is literally a lie. She is corrupt and she complained about being "not well off" despite Bill Clinton making well over 100 millions from just speeches. Not to mention Hilary's speeches (political bribery), their books, and taking in hundreds of thousands in benefits from hard working tax payers each year.

Reading your trash here is comical, Trump is "racist" because he wants strong border security and he wants a wall....guess what Hilary advocated for the same thing.

Then the conversation is, Trump is a racist because of his speech about Mexicans. You either can't comprehend his speech or you havnt listened to the entire speech. Reading your post here literally made my lose some brain cells. In his famous speech he spoke about a subgroup of illegals and not Mexicans in general but who cares about facts.

Hillary is great, she is pro war and has threatened countries like Russia and Iran with war but this is ignored in the media and idiot liberals are instead claiming,.....'can you imagine what would happen if trump had the nuclear codes'

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## RabzonKhan

*Independent Voters Are Overrated
*
SEP 15, 2016
By Harry Enten

Some election watchers treat independent voters like the golden key to open up Star World in “Super Mario World.” If you know who is winning independents, the thinking goes, then you know who is going to win the election. There’s an appealing simplicity to the logic of this: If Democrats vote for the Democrat and Republicans vote for the Republican, then whoever wins independents wins. The problem: It just isn’t true historically, and it may be wrong this election, as well. Donald Trump is currently winning independent voters and is still trailing Hillary Clinton in the polls.

Clinton leads Trump by 3 percentage points in an average of live-interview telephone polls conducted over the last three weeks. In the same nine polls, Trump is carrying independent voters by an average of 7 points.

Although the results differ from poll to poll, a clear pattern emerges: Trump does better with independents than he does with the electorate at large. Clinton is still winning overall because she is doing better with Democrats than Trump is with Republicans.

*Clinton is doing better among her base than Trump is among his*

Clinton leads among Democrats by an average of 81 percentage points, while Trump is ahead among Republicans by 76 points. That’s not a huge difference, but it’s meaningful. Trump has had problems with the GOP base since the primary season. Meanwhile, Clinton was cleaning up with self-identified Democratsduring the Democratic primaries, even as Bernie Sanders was doing well with independent voters. It’s also possible that Trump’s association with the Republican Party has caused some traditional Republican voters to call themselves independents, which makes the pool of independent voters more conservative leaning.

Indeed, many self-identified independents are not the moderate, persuadable swing voters they are often portrayed to be. As Amy Walter from the Cook Political Report has pointed out, independents usually lean towards one party or the other, even as they claim a nonpartisan label. Some lean Democratic or GOP. As Walter discussed, true independents only make up about 10 percent of all voters. *Read more*






ptldM3 said:


> Typical Liberal Hilary supporter. Everyone that supports trump is "trailer trash" and racist white trash  See the irony? Looking at dozens of videos of trashy Hillary supporters use violence and racial slurs at trump supporters is epic.


Where did I say that “everyone that supports Trump is a trailer trash” and racist white trash”?

I absolutely did not say that all of Trumps supporters are trailer trash, that would be stupid. I was criticizing his supporters who were disgracefully celebrating a person’s illness and spreading conspiracies on the web, how many can they be, 5000, 10,000? So please, don’t put words in my mouth.

I don’t know which videos you are referring to, but I do not condone violence.




> Then the conversation is, Trump is a racist because of his speech about Mexicans. You either can't comprehend his speech or you havnt listened to the entire speech. Reading your post here literally made my lose some brain cells. In his famous speech he spoke about a subgroup of illegals and not Mexicans in general but who cares about facts.


 Yes, I strongly believe Trump is a racist, here are few examples:

The Justice Department twice sued Trump and his dad for housing discrimination against black and other colored people.

He criticized a judge (calling him a Mexican) because of his Mexican heritage, even though the judge was born and raised in America.

He was also one of the leaders of birtherism movement, the racist conspiracy theory that Pres. Obama was not born in the United States and is thus an illegitimate president.




> Hillary is great, she is pro war and has *threatened countries like Russia and Iran with war* but this is ignored in the media and idiot liberals are instead claiming,.....'can you imagine what would happen if trump had the nuclear codes'


Give me some examples?


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## LA se Karachi

CBU-105 said:


> bit of a shame that with one of the biggest and most consequential events unfolding in this current US general election cycle, there is such poor participation in this thread from Americans on the forum.




That's because many of us hate them both. They are terrible candidates and will likely be poor Presidents as well.


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## ptldM3

RabzonKhan said:


> Where did I say that “everyone that supports Trump is a trailer trash” and racist white trash”?





Post #1191, the same, first and only post at the time that I quoted you on.


Like I said the irony is you call trump and his supporters racists, bigot, ect yet liberal Hilary supporters use derogatory terms towards trump supporters such as trailer trash, white trash, whitey, cracker and everything else in between.






RabzonKhan said:


> *I absolutely did not say that all of Trumps supporters are trailer trash, that would be stupid*. I was criticizing his supporters who were disgracefully celebrating a person’s illness and spreading conspiracies on the web, how many can they be, 5000, 10,000? So please, don’t put words in my mouth.






Then you must be calling yourself stupid because here are your exact words:



*"While the desperate trailer trash supporters of the madman were all over the web disgracefully celebrating Hillary’s illness and a million conspiracies, Hillary"*

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/us-presi...6-news-and-views.374363/page-80#ixzz4KNlNAkgp



You and Hilary have atleast one thing in common......both of you are lying and the only conspiracies have been from you.







RabzonKhan said:


> I don’t know which videos you are referring to, but I do not condone violence.







Well both Hilary and her supporters do condone violence. This is the same women that said she would "obliterate" Iran, treat cyber attacks as an act of war (US also committes cyber attacks, the irony), was on film laughing at the brutal and inhuman murder of Gudaffi and in general has been pro war, for every war and the brain dead Hilary supporters criticized Trump for being a "war monger", not surprised because the same morons actually think they will get some tax breaks from democrats 









RabzonKhan said:


> Yes, I strongly believe Trump is a racist, here are few examples:






*It was actually Hilary that called a former KKK leaders Robert Byrd a "great man".* If this were trump, we would not hear the end of it but if it's Hilary it's fine. Some of the closest people in his inner circle are also black....








RabzonKhan said:


> The Justice Department twice sued Trump and his dad for housing discrimination against black and other colored people.





Typical, you don't even study the crap you post. One of the people working at one of trump's properties that claimed he was told not to not rent to blacks and Puerto Ricans was actually a Puerto Rican himself and he said the Department of Justice threatened him if he did not lie.




*Goldstein, told him to “lie” or risk being “thrown in jail.” The employee described himself as a “Spanish-speaking Puerto Rican hired directly by Mr. Donald Trump.”*


Source Washington Post (iPhone not letting me copy link)







RabzonKhan said:


> He criticized a judge (calling him a Mexican) because of his Mexican heritage, even though the judge was born and raised in America.







More BS by you. You like to twist things and make something out of nothing. What Trump said is that the judge was of Mexican decent and that it was a conflict of interest for immigration hearings. He never called the judge "a Mexican".


Which he is absolutely correct. There is a reason why hundreds of jurors are called for cases and only a handful are actually picked while the rest are eliminated due to conflicts of interests and bias. The judges parents are Mexican immigrants so that is a conflict of interest.







RabzonKhan said:


> He was also one of the leaders of birtherism movement, the racist conspiracy theory that Pres. Obama was not born in the United States and is thus an illegitimate president.





Wanting to see a birth certificate to prove someone is qualified to run for president is racist? Oh god you people are rediculus, next thing you will claim is Trump's dog is racist. You guy can't have an honest conversation without somehow throwing race into everything.





RabzonKhan said:


> Give me some examples?





Enjoy, the same psycho that is barking like a dog--literally and has been filmed bobbing her head while grinning like she is on LSD is threatening to use nukes. While you're at it search the video where she laughed at the brutal murder of Ghudaffi.

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## CBU-105

*



 *

*Media Outraged After Trump Tricks Them To Cover Endorsements From Military Heroes*


WASHINGTON — The media showed up to the presidential ballroom of the new Trump International Hotel on Friday morning expecting Donald Trump to take questions about whether he still questions if President Obama was born in the United States.

Instead, they got more than a half hour of a variety of military heroes — generals, medal of honor recipients and a gold star wife — expressing support for the Republican nominee. And it all aired live on the cable news networks.

Before the event, Trump tweeted: “I am now going to the brand new Trump International, Hotel D.C. for a major statement.” That was interpreted by the press to mean he was going to address “birther questions.”
That’s because on Thursday, Trump declined to tell the Washington Post if he still questioned whether Obama is an American citizen. But later Thursday night — after his comment took off in the media — Trump’s campaign released a statement saying: “Having successfully obtained President Obama’s birth certificate when others could not, Mr. Trump believes that President Obama was born in the United States.”


Realizing Trump was not using the occasion to address that subject — and instead focus it on the military — many in the press were not happy — and vented on Twitter.







Trump’s campaign announced the endorsement of 44 new military flag officers, saying that brings the number up to 164 now.

“I am grateful for the growing support of highly respected retired generals and admirals who have been so successful in defending our country,” Trump said.

At the very end of the campaign event, Trump finally addressed the topic the media was there to hear. “Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy. I finished it.” 

“President Barack Obama was born in the United States,” Trump said. “Period. Now we all want to get back to making America strong again.”

Many reporters, some standing on chairs, began shouting questions over the applause from the guests in attendance. But Trump, having accomplished what he wanted, took none.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/16/m...orsements-from-military-heroes/#ixzz4KRLdKztY

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## Gandhi G in da house

CBU-105 said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *Media Outraged After Trump Tricks Them To Cover Endorsements From Military Heroes*
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON — The media showed up to the presidential ballroom of the new Trump International Hotel on Friday morning expecting Donald Trump to take questions about whether he still questions if President Obama was born in the United States.
> 
> Instead, they got more than a half hour of a variety of military heroes — generals, medal of honor recipients and a gold star wife — expressing support for the Republican nominee. And it all aired live on the cable news networks.
> 
> Before the event, Trump tweeted: “I am now going to the brand new Trump International, Hotel D.C. for a major statement.” That was interpreted by the press to mean he was going to address “birther questions.”
> That’s because on Thursday, Trump declined to tell the Washington Post if he still questioned whether Obama is an American citizen. But later Thursday night — after his comment took off in the media — Trump’s campaign released a statement saying: “Having successfully obtained President Obama’s birth certificate when others could not, Mr. Trump believes that President Obama was born in the United States.”
> 
> 
> Realizing Trump was not using the occasion to address that subject — and instead focus it on the military — many in the press were not happy — and vented on Twitter.
> 
> View attachment 334973
> 
> 
> Trump’s campaign announced the endorsement of 44 new military flag officers, saying that brings the number up to 164 now.
> 
> “I am grateful for the growing support of highly respected retired generals and admirals who have been so successful in defending our country,” Trump said.
> 
> At the very end of the campaign event, Trump finally addressed the topic the media was there to hear. “Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy. I finished it.”
> 
> “President Barack Obama was born in the United States,” Trump said. “Period. Now we all want to get back to making America strong again.”
> 
> Many reporters, some standing on chairs, began shouting questions over the applause from the guests in attendance. But Trump, having accomplished what he wanted, took none.
> 
> http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/16/m...orsements-from-military-heroes/#ixzz4KRLdKztY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 334974

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## RabzonKhan

The lying racist demagogue admits, without apologizing, that Pres. Obama was born in the United States, but then came up with a new lie, claiming that Hillary personally started the birther issue in 2008. Some people are beyond redemption! 


*Trump's 'birther' reversal: Our view*

The Editorial Board September 16, 2016

*Donald Trump announced he now believes President Obama was born in the United States after years of saying otherwise.*

In 36 seconds on Friday, Donald Trump tried tovanquish a lie he's perpetrated for several years, namely that Barack Obama might not have been born in the United States and, by extension, was never legitimately president.

Trump touted this crackpot theory in 2011 when he flirted with running for president, and he never backed away from it. Never, that is, until Friday, when he finally conceded at a campaign event that, "President Obama was born in the United States. Period."

Trump deserves about as much credit for this ridiculously belated admission as he should get for declaring that the Earth is round or that the pope is Catholic. A true apology is in order.

Trump's bizarre obsession with this "birther" claim served not only to undermine the legitimacy of the first African-American president, but it also breathed life into a radical, bigoted fringe in the United States who could never abide such an election result. *Many elements of that same fringe, known collectively today as the alt-right, are some of Trump's most ardent supporters.*

But the Republican presidential candidate clearly faced a conundrum before stepping to the podium on Friday. With Obama's approval rating above 50%, and with Trump trying to demonstrate that he's not a racist, he was eager to put this messy birther business behind him as the current presidential race narrows.

*So Trump offered his stark admission that the birther claim was wrong, albeit doing it in back-handed fashion, prefaced with yet a new falsehood, a claim that Hillary Clintonpersonally "started" the birther issue during her 2008 campaign.*

Still, for a candidate who takes pride in never admitting error, perhaps Trump's concession Friday opens the door for him to come clean on other classic Trumpisms. He could finally abandon his claim that human-caused climate change is a "hoax." Or he could own up to the truth that he was for the Iraq war before he was against it. Or that he never saw video of thousands of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating the 9/11 attacks.

*One lie down, so many to go.*


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## RabzonKhan

*Bernie Sanders Warns of the Danger of a Third-Party Vote*

*"Think about what the country looks like and whether you're comfortable with four years of a Trump presidency"*

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders has some advice for those considering casting a “protest” vote for a third-party candidate in the upcoming presidential election.

*“This is not a governor’s race, it’s not a state legislative race, this is the presidency of the United States,” Sanders told the hosts of MSNBC’s Morning Joe on Friday. “And I would say to those people out there who are thinking of the protest vote, think about what the country looks like and whether you’re comfortable with four years of a Trump presidency.” Sanders, the longest serving Independent member of Congress in U.S. history, was on the show making the case for voting for his former opponent in the Democratic primary Hillary Clinton.*

“Let us elect Hillary Clinton as president, and the day after, let us mobilize millions of people around the progressive agenda,” Sanders said.

After a grueling primary, Clinton and Sanders made amends in July at the Democratic National Convention, where she became the party’s presidential nominee.

When asked about Clinton’s lack of support from younger voters, a group that leaned very heavily towards Sanders in the primary, the “Democratic socialist” had more counsel.

“I would just simply say to the millennials and to anybody else, look at the issues. Don’t get hung up on Trump’s kids and whatever the story of the birther issue,” Sanders told _Morning Joe_. “Stay focused on the issues of relevance to your life. I think Clinton is, far and away, the superior candidate.” *Link*





*Bernie Sanders blasts Trump birther statement: 'This is pathetic'
*
By David Wright, CNN

(CNN)Sen. Bernie Sanders sarcastically dismissed a statement from Donald Trump's campaign saying that the Republican nominee now believes President Barack Obama is a US citizen, arguing that the "birther" movement is about "delegitimizing the first African-American president in the history of our country."

Appearing Friday on "New Day" on CNN, Sanders offered a caustic rejection of the Trump campaign's statement, put out by spokesman Jason Miller on Thursday night.

"Well isn't that something. My word! After eight years of having President Obama as president, Donald Trump now thinks he's a legitimate president. Well I'm just overwhelmed with emotion," Sanders told CNN's Chris Cuomo.

*"Look, this is pathetic. And this goes to the root of what Trump's campaign is about," said Sanders. "Let's be clear -- it's about bigotry. You remember, let's all remember, that a few years ago, Donald Trump was the leader of the so-called 'birther' movement. And what the birther movement was about was not being critical of Obama. This is democracy, we can criticize Obama. It was delegitimizing the first African-American president."*

"It is not acceptable for a candidate for president of the United States to be arguing whether or not our President was born in this country."

*Sanders also drew a line between Trump's role in mainstreaming the birther movement in 2012 and his presidential campaign in 2016, saying that "I think this is part of his entire campaign of bigotry" and that Trump is "trying to appeal to those extreme, extreme, extreme extremes, who still believe that Obama was not born in America."*

While he mounted a vigorous primary challenge to eventual Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, Sanders pressed the case for a Clinton presidency Friday and sought to woo disaffected supporters of his who remain resistant her.

*"Please, anybody who supports me -- do not think that Donald Trump in any way, shape or form reflects the point of view that I have," he said. *Noting Trump's ability to dominate news cycles, Sanders said, "Don't worry about what CNN has on the air -- worry about your own lives, which candidate issue after issue after issue is better. And I think the answer is by far Hillary Clinton."

Sanders also presented the 2016 election as a stark choice, and accused Trump of lacking core beliefs.
"Either Hillary Clinton is going to become president or Donald Trump is going to become president. And I'm going to work as hard as I can to prevent Trump from becoming president," he said.

*"Now, I ran against Clinton for a year. Of course my views are different than Clinton's on many issues. No question about it. The problem is Trump -- we don't know what he stands for. I can criticize Hillary Clinton for this, that, and the other thing. Trump literally changes his views every other day."* *Link*


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Can't be possibly worse then Obama and Bush combined, 70 Billion aid to Israel lol

This system used in US is like Good cop and bad cop

They both pretend to be good / bad , but they are both working for Israel their Master

People think they are voting for a chance but they all work for same master

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## RabzonKhan

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Can't be possibly worse then Obama and Bush combined, 70 Billion aid to Israel lol
> 
> This system used in US is like Good cop and bad cop
> 
> They both pretend to be good / bad , but they are both working for Israel their Master
> 
> People think they are voting for a chance but they all work for same master


You really hate Israel, don’t you!


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I just feel the American people need to spend their money on their own population, I am not sure who Israel is

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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 335032
> 
> 
> *Bernie Sanders Warns of the Danger of a Third-Party Vote*
> 
> *"Think about what the country looks like and whether you're comfortable with four years of a Trump presidency"*
> 
> Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders has some advice for those considering casting a “protest” vote for a third-party candidate in the upcoming presidential election.
> 
> *“This is not a governor’s race, it’s not a state legislative race, this is the presidency of the United States,” Sanders told the hosts of MSNBC’s Morning Joe on Friday. “And I would say to those people out there who are thinking of the protest vote, think about what the country looks like and whether you’re comfortable with four years of a Trump presidency.” Sanders, the longest serving Independent member of Congress in U.S. history, was on the show making the case for voting for his former opponent in the Democratic primary Hillary Clinton.*
> 
> “Let us elect Hillary Clinton as president, and the day after, let us mobilize millions of people around the progressive agenda,” Sanders said.
> 
> After a grueling primary, Clinton and Sanders made amends in July at the Democratic National Convention, where she became the party’s presidential nominee.
> 
> When asked about Clinton’s lack of support from younger voters, a group that leaned very heavily towards Sanders in the primary, the “Democratic socialist” had more counsel.
> 
> “I would just simply say to the millennials and to anybody else, look at the issues. Don’t get hung up on Trump’s kids and whatever the story of the birther issue,” Sanders told _Morning Joe_. “Stay focused on the issues of relevance to your life. I think Clinton is, far and away, the superior candidate.” *Link*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Bernie Sanders blasts Trump birther statement: 'This is pathetic'
> *
> By David Wright, CNN
> 
> (CNN)Sen. Bernie Sanders sarcastically dismissed a statement from Donald Trump's campaign saying that the Republican nominee now believes President Barack Obama is a US citizen, arguing that the "birther" movement is about "delegitimizing the first African-American president in the history of our country."
> 
> Appearing Friday on "New Day" on CNN, Sanders offered a caustic rejection of the Trump campaign's statement, put out by spokesman Jason Miller on Thursday night.
> 
> "Well isn't that something. My word! After eight years of having President Obama as president, Donald Trump now thinks he's a legitimate president. Well I'm just overwhelmed with emotion," Sanders told CNN's Chris Cuomo.
> 
> *"Look, this is pathetic. And this goes to the root of what Trump's campaign is about," said Sanders. "Let's be clear -- it's about bigotry. You remember, let's all remember, that a few years ago, Donald Trump was the leader of the so-called 'birther' movement. And what the birther movement was about was not being critical of Obama. This is democracy, we can criticize Obama. It was delegitimizing the first African-American president."*
> 
> "It is not acceptable for a candidate for president of the United States to be arguing whether or not our President was born in this country."
> 
> *Sanders also drew a line between Trump's role in mainstreaming the birther movement in 2012 and his presidential campaign in 2016, saying that "I think this is part of his entire campaign of bigotry" and that Trump is "trying to appeal to those extreme, extreme, extreme extremes, who still believe that Obama was not born in America."*
> 
> While he mounted a vigorous primary challenge to eventual Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, Sanders pressed the case for a Clinton presidency Friday and sought to woo disaffected supporters of his who remain resistant her.
> 
> *"Please, anybody who supports me -- do not think that Donald Trump in any way, shape or form reflects the point of view that I have," he said. *Noting Trump's ability to dominate news cycles, Sanders said, "Don't worry about what CNN has on the air -- worry about your own lives, which candidate issue after issue after issue is better. And I think the answer is by far Hillary Clinton."
> 
> Sanders also presented the 2016 election as a stark choice, and accused Trump of lacking core beliefs.
> "Either Hillary Clinton is going to become president or Donald Trump is going to become president. And I'm going to work as hard as I can to prevent Trump from becoming president," he said.
> 
> *"Now, I ran against Clinton for a year. Of course my views are different than Clinton's on many issues. No question about it. The problem is Trump -- we don't know what he stands for. I can criticize Hillary Clinton for this, that, and the other thing. Trump literally changes his views every other day."* *Link*



Both candidates are terrible. I personally will not contribute in any way to the election of either. I refuse to be held accountable for their actions as President. I don't want blood on my hands. Maybe people will actually turn out to vote and will pay attention to general election polls before voting in future primary elections.

If Hillary becomes President, she will do a terrible job on economic issues for the middle and working class. The rich will capture most of the income growth in this country yet again (as they have done since the 1980s/1990s). The Democratic Party at-large will be left holding the bag. A bad Democratic President can do more damage long-term than a bad Republican President.

We had a candidate that would have won by a significant margin and would have had long coattails for down-ballot candidates across the country, not just in "blue" states or districts. You people chose the other one. Hillary got about 55% of elected delegates. A terrible number considering the circumstances. But she "won" nonetheless.

You reap what you sow.

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## ptldM3

RabzonKhan said:


> The lying racist demagogue admits, without apologizing, that Pres. Obama was born in the United States, but then came up with a new lie, claiming that Hillary personally started the birther issue in 2008. Some people are beyond redemption!
> 
> 
> *Trump's 'birther' reversal: Our view*
> 
> The Editorial Board September 16, 2016
> 
> *Donald Trump announced he now believes President Obama was born in the United States after years of saying otherwise.*
> 
> In 36 seconds on Friday, Donald Trump tried tovanquish a lie he's perpetrated for several years, namely that Barack Obama might not have been born in the United States and, by extension, was never legitimately president.
> 
> Trump touted this crackpot theory in 2011 when he flirted with running for president, and he never backed away from it. Never, that is, until Friday, when he finally conceded at a campaign event that, "President Obama was born in the United States. Period."
> 
> Trump deserves about as much credit for this ridiculously belated admission as he should get for declaring that the Earth is round or that the pope is Catholic. A true apology is in order.
> 
> Trump's bizarre obsession with this "birther" claim served not only to undermine the legitimacy of the first African-American president, but it also breathed life into a radical, bigoted fringe in the United States who could never abide such an election result. *Many elements of that same fringe, known collectively today as the alt-right, are some of Trump's most ardent supporters.*
> 
> But the Republican presidential candidate clearly faced a conundrum before stepping to the podium on Friday. With Obama's approval rating above 50%, and with Trump trying to demonstrate that he's not a racist, he was eager to put this messy birther business behind him as the current presidential race narrows.
> 
> *So Trump offered his stark admission that the birther claim was wrong, albeit doing it in back-handed fashion, prefaced with yet a new falsehood, a claim that Hillary Clintonpersonally "started" the birther issue during her 2008 campaign.*
> 
> Still, for a candidate who takes pride in never admitting error, perhaps Trump's concession Friday opens the door for him to come clean on other classic Trumpisms. He could finally abandon his claim that human-caused climate change is a "hoax." Or he could own up to the truth that he was for the Iraq war before he was against it. Or that he never saw video of thousands of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating the 9/11 attacks.
> 
> *One lie down, so many to go.*




Trump is a lying racist? Come up with something new. Screaming "racist" doesn't help your cause especially when there is zero evidence to support your claims. Is it any wounder you could not rebuke me when I* fact checked* you? Key word, fact, notice none of your "racist" claims have any credence, they are so out of touch with reality that you should be ashamed of yourself. We already have proof that it's you that is racist, like I said before it's comical that Hilary supporters call trump racist when they are the ones throwing racial slurs around.

Speaking of lying, almost every claim Hilary has made about the email scandal has been a lie according to the FBI. She lied about Bengazi, heck she even lies about trivial matters, she is a pathological liar/unstable warmonger.

But I can take it further, unlike your "trump is racist" claims which are out of touch with reality, Hilary spoke about a former powerful KKK leader and called him a great man.

It's also funny how she demonizes Russia, and tries to bring Russia into everything, great tactic on her part by deflecting attention away from herself. In anycase she only has great things to say about the Saudis, the same people that descriminat against all religions other then Islam (churches and temples are illegal in Saudi Arabia), people that leave Islam are beheaded, gays are beheaded, women have no rights, ect, ect.

Yet in Russia there isn't even a death penalty, women have full rights, no one cares about your religion or if you chose to leave or convert from a religion,ect....but you know Hilary, the only thing that comes out of her mouth is .......BUT RUSSIAAAA......


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## Dr Parody

ptldM3 said:


> Trump is a lying racist? Come up with something new. Screaming "racist" doesn't help your cause especially when there is zero evidence to support your claims. Is it any wounder you could not rebuke me when I* fact checked* you? Key word, fact, notice none of your "racist" claims have any credence, they are so out of touch with reality that you should be ashamed of yourself. We already have proof that it's you that is racist, like I said before it's comical that Hilary supporters call trump racist when they are the ones throwing racial slurs around.
> 
> Speaking of lying, almost every claim Hilary has made about the email scandal has been a lie according to the FBI. She lied about Bengazi, heck she even lies about trivial matters, she is a pathological liar/unstable warmonger.
> 
> But I can take it further, unlike your "trump is racist" claims which are out of touch with reality, Hilary spoke about a former powerful KKK leader and called him a great man.
> 
> It's also funny how she demonizes Russia, and tries to bring Russia into everything, great tactic on her part by deflecting attention away from herself. In anycase she only has great things to say about the Saudis, the same people that descriminat against all religions other then Islam (churches and temples are illegal in Saudi Arabia), people that leave Islam are beheaded, gays are beheaded, women have no rights, ect, ect.
> 
> Yet in Russia there isn't even a death penalty, women have full rights, no one cares about your religion or if you chose to leave or convert from a religion,ect....but you know Hilary, the only thing that comes out of her mouth is .......BUT RUSSIAAAA......



I may not be a "Hillary supporter", but I will not put my money on a man like Trump. He calls Mexicans "rapists", "criminals" and Muslims "terrorists". If that doesn't prove that he's racist, I do not know what will

Everyone is sent in this world for a reason; a mission that they are bound to complete. Of course, when it comes for our friend Mr Trump, he was sent here to revive the Fascist movement. There is any end to everything; for socialism it is communism and for capitalism, the only sensible end is Fascism. In other words, capitalism always leads to extremist rightists movements or "Ultra-Nationalism". Trump is the manifestation of Ultra Nationalism at its greatest extent

As for Hillary, I see no difference between her and Trump. Both are going to cause chaos and anarchy in their own right

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## ptldM3

Dr Parody said:


> I may not be a "Hillary supporter", but I will not put my money on a man like Trump. He calls Mexicans "rapists", "criminals" and Muslims "terrorists". If that doesn't prove that he's racist, I do not know what will
> 
> Everyone is sent in this world for a reason; a mission that they are bound to complete. Of course, when it comes for our friend Mr Trump, he was sent here to revive the Fascist movement. There is any end to everything; for socialism it is communism and for capitalism, the only sensible end is Fascism. In other words, capitalism always leads to extremist rightists movements or "Ultra-Nationalism". Trump is the manifestation of Ultra Nationalism at its greatest extent





Have you ever even listen to his full speeches? Clearly not, everyone that pulls the "Trump is racist" card are feeding off of the hysteria of other equally ignorant people.

If you listened to his speech he called a sub-group of illegals, rapist, murders, ect. He never classified all Mexicans as those things, in fact, he actually said he assumes there are good people that cross from Mexico ILLEGALLY. But many of the people that cross from Mexico illegally are criminals because they would never make it in legally and they do bring in drugs and crime. 

Look at the massive strain drug addicts put on economies, they steal billions from stores (cause prices to go up) they rob people, they rob and even sometimes kill family if they are desperate, they don't work, they collect government benefits, ect. The cartels in Mexico have killed thousands, they behead people including children, with knives and even chainsaws, they skin people alive, they burn people, ect. Same level as ISIS, and Trump is racist for calling these people murderers?

What world do you live in?

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> The lying racist demagogue


Cheers:
*Trump Leading Hillary By 6 Points In Latest Polls*






Dr Parody said:


> He calls Mexicans "rapists", "criminals" and Muslims "terrorists". If that doesn't prove that he's racist, I do not know what will



Number one: Mexicans and Muslims aren't a race. 

Number two: Trump never generalized all of those groups of people under the category of "terrorists" and "rapists". 

If only you actually cared to listen to his entire speeches instead of listening to those who quote Trump out of context for political purposes.

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## Desert Fox

*Hillary Clinton Campaign Stealing From Poorest Donors*​Wells Fargo fraud department inundated with calls from low-income Clinton supporters reporting repeated unauthorized charges


By Liz Crokin • 09/15/16 2:35pm






 _Hillary for America processed a total of $94 in unauthorized charges to Carol Mahre’s _
_US Bank account. This follows a pattern in which unwitting donors are charged multiple 
times,but always for a total of less than $100, which is a key triggerpoint for banks’_
_ internal action systems. Photo: Courtesy Carol Mahre_​
*Hillary Clinton’s campaign is stealing from her poorest supporters by purposefully and repeatedly overcharging them after they make what’s supposed to be a one-time small donation through her official campaign website, multiple sources tell the Observer.*

The overcharges are occurring so often that the fraud department at one of the nation’s biggest banks receives up to 100 phone calls a day from Clinton’s small donors asking for refunds for unauthorized charges to their bankcards made by Clinton’s campaign. One elderly Clinton donor, who has been a victim of this fraud scheme, has filed a complaint with her state’s attorney general and a representative from the office told her that they had forwarded her case to the Federal Election Commission.

*“We get up to a hundred calls a day from Hillary’s low-income supporters complaining about multiple unauthorized charges,”* a source, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of job security, from the Wells Fargo fraud department told the Observer. The source claims that the Clinton campaign has been pulling this stunt since Spring of this year. The Hillary for America campaign will overcharge small donors by repeatedly charging small amounts such as $20 to the bankcards of donors who made a one-time donation. *However, the Clinton campaign strategically doesn’t overcharge these donors $100 or more because the bank would then be obligated to investigate the fraud.*

“We don’t investigate fraudulent charges unless they are over $100,” the fraud specialist explained. “The Clinton campaign knows this, that’s why we don’t see any charges over the $100 amount, they’ll stop the charges just below $100. We’ll see her campaign overcharge donors by $20, $40 or $60 but never more than $100.” The source, who has worked for Wells Fargo for over 10 years, said that the total amount they refund customers on a daily basis who have been overcharged by Clinton’s campaign “varies” but the bank usually issues refunds that total between $700 and $1,200 per day.

The fraud specialist said that Clinton donors who call in will attempt to resolve the issue with the campaign first but they never get anywhere. “They will call the Clinton campaign to get their refund and the issue never gets resolved. So they call us and we just issue the refund. The Clinton campaign knows these charges are small potatoes and that we’ll just refund the money back.”

The source said that pornography companies often deploy a similar arrangement pull. “We see this same scheme with a lot of seedy **** companies,” the source said. The source also notes that the dozens of phone calls his department receives daily are from people who notice the fraudulent charges on their statements. “The people who call us are just the ones who catch the fraudulent charges. I can’t imagine how many more people are getting overcharged by Hillary’s campaign and they have no idea.”

*The source said he’s apolitical but noted that the bank’s fraud department is yet to receive one call from a Donald Trump supporter claiming to have been overcharged by Trump’s campaign. “I’m only talking to you because what Hillary’s doing is so messed up, she’s stealing from her poorest supporters.”*



Carol Mahre has been charged multiple times after signing up for a one-time donation. Her son, Roger Mahre, is an attorney who filed a complaint with Minnesota’s attorney general. Photo: Courtesy Carol Mahre

Wells Fargo recently came under fire after news broke that various regulators fined the big bank $185 million for opening 2 million phony customer accounts without their customers’ permission. This massive scandal resulted in the firing of 5,300 Wells Fargo employees.

Carol Mahre, an 81-year-old grandmother of seven from Minnesota, is one of the victims of Clinton’s campaign donor fraud scandal. In March, Mahre said she made a one-time $25 donation via Clinton’s official campaign website. However, when she received her U.S. Bank card statement, she noticed multiple $25 charges were made. Mahre, who said in an interview she only contributed $25 because she’s “not rich” and that’s all she could afford, contacted her son, Roger Mahre, to help her dispute the unauthorized charges.

Roger, who is an attorney, told the Observer that he called the Clinton campaign dozens of times in April and early May in an attempt to resolve the issue. “It took me at least 40 to 50 phone calls to the campaign office before I finally got ahold of someone,” Roger said. “After I got a campaign worker on the phone, she said they would stop making the charges.”

Incredibly, the very next day, Carol’s card was charged yet again and the campaign had never reversed the initial fraudulent charges. *“I was told they would stop charging my mother’s card but they never stopped.”* He added that he knows his mother did not sign up for recurring payments. “She’s very good with the internet so I know she only made a one-time payment.” *Roger also pointed out that even if his mother mistakenly signed up for recurring monthly payments then she should’ve been charged for the same amount of money each month, not multiple charges for varying amounts on the same day or in the same month.* Furthermore, Roger said that after the campaign was made aware of this situation, the charges should’ve stopped but they never did.

The Clinton campaign overcharged Carol $25 three times and then overcharged her one time for $19, a grand total of $94 in fraudulent charges. The campaign’s overcharges to Carol were just a few dollars short of $100. This is in line with what the Wells Fargo bank source revealed to the Observer.

Since the campaign failed to amend the problem for Carol, Roger contacted her bank, U.S. Bank. However, he ran into problems when he asked U.S. Bank to refund his mother’s money. Roger told the Observer that the bank would not reverse the charges and that a bank spokesperson told him that they had no control over companies that make unauthorized charges. At that point, Roger decided to contact his local news and filed a fraud complaint with Minnesota Attorney General Lori Swanson’s office on behalf of his mother. After local TV news Kare 11 ran a story, someone from U.S. Bank contacted Roger the next day and said that they had reversed and stopped the charges to his mother’s card.

A representative from Minnesota’s Democratic attorney general’s office told Roger that this problem wasn’t in their jurisdiction and that they had forwarded the case to the FEC. However, FEC spokesperson Julia Queen told the Observer they have no record of the case. “We don’t have it,” Queen said. The Observer contacted Swanson’s office and did not hear back.

Roger did eventually get a letter from a lawyer representing the Clinton campaign. In the letter, the lawyer wrote that his mother would be removed from their donor list; however, the campaign did not take any responsibility for the fraudulent charges.

“They basically said that they weren’t accepting responsibility for this but they’d remove my mom from the donor list,” he said. Roger is less than happy with the way the Clinton campaign has handled this nightmare for him and his mother. “This is a load of crap!” Mahre said. “The self-righteousness of politicians drives me insane. If you and I did this, we’d be thrown in jail. This is theft, fraud or wire fraud—it’s a federal crime!”

*Since Carol’s story became public, Roger said he’s heard from other people who have been ripped off by the Clinton campaign. “I’ve heard this is happening to other small donors,” Roger said. “People will donate $25, but then when they receive their credit card statement, they are charged $25 multiple times.”*

The incident hasn’t just left a bad taste in Roger’s mouth. Carol decided she’s not going to vote for Hillary even though she’s voted for the Democratic presidential nominee every election since President Dwight Eisenhower won reelection in 1956. “My mother is a lifelong Democrat and she’s voted every election in her life for a Democrat but she’s not going to vote for Hillary,” Roger said.

_The New York Times_ reported in 2007* that Clinton’s first presidential campaign had to refund and subtract hundreds of thousands of dollars from its first-quarter total often because donors’ credit cards were charged twice. Additionally, it was reported that Clinton had to refund a stunning $2.8 million in donations,* three times more than the $900K President Barack Obama’s campaign refunded.

Another bank source told the Observer that Clinton’s motivation in purposefully overcharging donors is not only to rake in more money for her campaign but also to inflate her small donor numbers reported to the FEC. “This gives a false impression about how much money Clinton has raised,” the source said. “The money that the bank has refunded would not be reflected in the FEC filings till after the election. This gives off the illusion to the public that her support and the amount she’s raised is much greater than what it is in reality.”

*A Clinton campaign worker named Kathy Callahan, who worked on Clinton’s presidential campaign in 2008, claimed in a blog post that Clinton fraudulently overcharged her by several thousand dollars. She wrote that she voluntarily left the campaign’s finance committee after she discovered $3,000 in unauthorized charges made by Clinton’s campaign to her Visa card. Callahan said the unauthorized charges caused $400 in overdraft and bank charges and put Callahan over the legal donor limit. Callahan said that after a month of “begging and pleading,” she wasn’t able to get her money back until she threatened to go to authorities.* However, when she was finally refunded her money the Clinton campaign refused to compensate her for the $400 in overdraft and bank charges.

Callahan also wrote that Matt McQueeney, who worked in the compliance and accounting department at Clinton’s campaign headquarters at the time, told her, “What happened to you with credit card errors is happening to others.” McQueeney reportedly parted ways with the Clinton campaign shortly after this incident occurred. Backing up what McQueeney claimed, there were several incidents similar to Callahan’s reported in 2008. Callahan and McQueeney could not be reached for comment.

In 2001, the Clintons were accused of attempting to steal items donated to the White House during Bill’s presidency as he exited office. There was $190,000 worth of gifts in question that the Clintons shipped to their then new estate in Chappaqua, New York. Multiple donors said that they had understood that the items they had donated during Clinton’s presidency were to stay in the White House as part of the 1993 White House redecoration project. Initially, the Clintons claimed that the items in question were given to them prior to President Clinton taking office; however, government records proved otherwise. Facing strong criticism, the Clintons decided to return several items including $28,500 in furnishings and they paid $86,000 for other gifts.

Murmurs of theft are nothing new to the Clintons. In 2001, the Clintons were accused of attempting to steal items donated to the White House during Bill’s presidency as he exited office, including $190,000 worth of gifts in question that the Clintons shipped to their new estate in Chappaqua, New York. But Bill begs to differ.

He recently compared himself to Robin Hood and said that through their foundation he asks people with money to give to people who don’t have money. In reality, the Clintons steal from people who have little money and they’re robbing some of Hillary’s most impoverished supporters—including a poor elderly grandma—to fund her campaign.

for @RabzonKhan 


​

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## T-72M1

LA se Karachi said:


> We had a candidate that would have won by a significant margin and would have had long coattails for down-ballot candidates across the country, not just in "blue" states or districts. You people chose the other one. Hillary got about 55% of elected delegates. A terrible number considering the circumstances. But she "won" nonetheless.
> 
> You reap what you sow.


Agree, they really blew it with the Sanders steal. I imagine Trump would have struggled a lot more vs him than he is vs crooked hillary, where in fact he's not even struggling anymore, not only has he caught up, he's surging big league. 



master of optics he's pulling their strings*











(+1000 internets to anyone who gets that reference)

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## Desert Fox

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Can't be possibly worse then Obama and Bush combined, 70 Billion aid to Israel lol
> 
> This system used in US is like Good cop and bad cop
> 
> They both pretend to be good / bad , but they are both working for Israel their Master
> 
> People think they are voting for a chance but they all work for same master


Trump is different from the Republican establishment which is why they hate his guts and many of them have sided with Hillary against their own Party candidate, whom most establishment Republicans were/are reluctant to endorse. The neocons (Bush family) hate Trump for his soft stance on Russia and his anti-Globalist rhetoric. Why else are they putting all their weight behind Hillary? Because she's the war candidate.

Trump is a business man, not a Politician. He's not the best candidate, but he's a million times better than Hillary who's itching to start world war 3 and screw over the American working class by raising taxes. She's a globalist.

Regarding israel, Trump even refused to visit israel not once but twice during his campaign, something no other American politician would even consider doing.

Trump Rejects Visit to Israel Before Election: 'I'm Not Traditional' - Haaretz

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## Desert Fox

CBU-105 said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *Media Outraged After Trump Tricks Them To Cover Endorsements From Military Heroes*
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON — The media showed up to the presidential ballroom of the new Trump International Hotel on Friday morning expecting Donald Trump to take questions about whether he still questions if President Obama was born in the United States.
> 
> Instead, they got more than a half hour of a variety of military heroes — generals, medal of honor recipients and a gold star wife — expressing support for the Republican nominee. And it all aired live on the cable news networks.
> 
> Before the event, Trump tweeted: “I am now going to the brand new Trump International, Hotel D.C. for a major statement.” That was interpreted by the press to mean he was going to address “birther questions.”
> That’s because on Thursday, Trump declined to tell the Washington Post if he still questioned whether Obama is an American citizen. But later Thursday night — after his comment took off in the media — Trump’s campaign released a statement saying: “Having successfully obtained President Obama’s birth certificate when others could not, Mr. Trump believes that President Obama was born in the United States.”
> 
> 
> Realizing Trump was not using the occasion to address that subject — and instead focus it on the military — many in the press were not happy — and vented on Twitter.
> 
> View attachment 334973
> 
> 
> Trump’s campaign announced the endorsement of 44 new military flag officers, saying that brings the number up to 164 now.
> 
> “I am grateful for the growing support of highly respected retired generals and admirals who have been so successful in defending our country,” Trump said.
> 
> At the very end of the campaign event, Trump finally addressed the topic the media was there to hear. “Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy. I finished it.”
> 
> “President Barack Obama was born in the United States,” Trump said. “Period. Now we all want to get back to making America strong again.”
> 
> Many reporters, some standing on chairs, began shouting questions over the applause from the guests in attendance. But Trump, having accomplished what he wanted, took none.
> 
> http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/16/m...orsements-from-military-heroes/#ixzz4KRLdKztY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 334974


 Trump trolled their @$$e$ real good. Dishonest Press got a taste of their own medicine.

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## T-72M1

Desert Fox said:


> Trump trolled their @$$e$ real good. Dishonest Press got a taste of their own medicine.
> 
> View attachment 335468​


what's ridiculous is how seriously they're taking this pepe the frog meme

*Donald Trump, Pepe the frog, and white supremacists: an explainer*
That cartoon frog is more sinister than you might realize.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/post/donald-trump-pepe-the-frog-and-white-supremacists-an-explainer/ 



another Trump Force One rally




these are great optics, that plane has been one his aces and he's used it brilliantly as a prop.






meanwhile, the race tightens: 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/race-tightens-projected-u-electoral-college-vote-reuters-114535676.html

and barry is nervous
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi..._want_to_give_me_a_good_send_off_go_vote.html


muh legacy  of ISIS, and Libya, and Syria and DPRK nuke tests and Chinese expansionism.

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## Desert Fox

T-72M1 said:


> what's ridiculous is how seriously they're taking this pepe the frog meme
> 
> *Donald Trump, Pepe the frog, and white supremacists: an explainer*
> That cartoon frog is more sinister than you might realize.
> 
> https://www.hillaryclinton.com/post/donald-trump-pepe-the-frog-and-white-supremacists-an-explainer/
> 
> 
> 
> another Trump Force One rally
> 
> 
> 
> 
> these are great optics, that plane has been one his aces and he's used it brilliantly as a prop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meanwhile, the race tightens:
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/race-tightens-projected-u-electoral-college-vote-reuters-114535676.html
> 
> and barry is nervous
> http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi..._want_to_give_me_a_good_send_off_go_vote.html
> 
> 
> muh legacy  of ISIS, and Libya, and Syria and DPRK nuke tests and Chinese expansionism.


What can we expect from these Libtard morons? They get triggered by anything. If a Trump supporter so much as farts they'll say its a neo-Nazi right wing conspiracy

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## T-72M1

but, In all seriousness, even though Pepe had been kind of adopted by the WN/alt-right online crowd at some stage during the Trump primary campaign, the whole thing was limited to geeky 4chan boards, subreddits and twitter etc, a 100% pure online phenomenon of anonymous posters. Crooked Hillary really shot herself in the foot (nien, head) by giving it the biggest platform imaginable when she referenced them by name at that ill-conceived speech in Reno.

What's happened since is even more fascinating, Hillary (perhaps unknowingly) falsely _implicated _people like Alex Jones, Milo and Steve Bannon as figureheads of the 'alt-right' _movement _and ignored the ramzpauls, jared taylors and other more legit targets for her ire, possibly for sake of name recognition, but what a horrible move that was, for these guys (Jones etc) have now co-opted the term/movement and are actively pushing a distinctly non-racist nationalist narrative and it's all worked out in the Trump campaign's favor (which was never really racist to begin with)

*Black voters are turning from Clinton to Trump in new poll*

L.A. Times: Trump Up 7 over Clinton; Breaks 20% Among Blacks

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## T-72M1




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## Desert Fox




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## Al-zakir

Neither of them good candidate. We are doom. I'm not going to vote this time around.

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## T-72M1

Donald J. Trump for President rally in Fort Myers, FL


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## Solomon2

"Dilbert"​


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## Desert Fox

*National Poll Shows Donald Trump Surges Among Hispanics, African Americans*
​*by Neil Munro8 Sep 20162901


SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER
Donald Trump is favored by one-in-four African Americans and one-in-three Latinos, according to a poll conducted by the Boston Herald and Franklin Pierce University.*
 
The poll of 1,025 likely voters was conducted by RKM Research for Franklin Pierce University and the Boston Herald, from Aug. 31 to Sept. 4. 

 
Overall, Franklin Pierce gets good marks for its polls and the results are in the same ballpark as many other polls. For example, the poll showed Clinton ahead by three points, 44 percent to 41 percent. Eight percent of respondents back Gary Johnson. 

 
The poll showed that Trump has a very favorable rating among among 18.4 percent of 105 Hispanics, and 10.5 percent of 101 African Americans. He also scored a “somewhat favorable” rating among 16.4 percent of Hispanics and 13.3 percent of African Americans. Combined, he gets a positive rating from 35 percent of Hispanics and 24 percent of African Americans.







That’s apparently better than Gov. Mitt Romney, whose nationwide ballot-box score in 2012 was 27 percent support among Hispanics and 6 percent of African Americans. 


Trump isn’t going to win a majority of either bloc. Forty-nine percent of Hispanics and 69 percent of African Americans have a “very unfavorable “ view of Trump. But every percent of Hispanic support helps Trump in the critical state of Florida, and every percent of African American support helps Trump in a few northern states, such as Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. 


Notably, Hillary Clinton has a “very unfavorable” rating from 48 percent of Hispanics and 15 percent of African-Americans. That leaves Clinton’s “very unfavorable “ score among Hispanics level with Trump’s “very unfavorable” score. 


Those ratings, however, have a relatively high error margin because of the low number of Hispanics and African-Americans in the poll. 


In comments about the poll, conservative author Ann Coulter said the poll shows significant support among lower-income minorities for Trump’s low-immigration, high-wage, reform plans. 


“There is nothing frightening about Trump if you’re here legally, and he is going to bring back jobs and raise your wages,” Coulter told Herald Radio. “They left [their home countries], they like America, they came here, and they’d like a raise,” she said in a Herald Radio interview Sept. 6. “I like that Trump is appealing to all working class people.”

*

*​

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## Gandhi G in da house

Desert Fox said:


> *National Poll Shows Donald Trump Surges Among Hispanics, African Americans*
> ​*by Neil Munro8 Sep 20162901*
> 
> 
> *SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER*
> *Donald Trump is favored by one-in-four African Americans and one-in-three Latinos, according to a poll conducted by the Boston Herald and Franklin Pierce University.*
> 
> The poll of 1,025 likely voters was conducted by RKM Research for Franklin Pierce University and the Boston Herald, from Aug. 31 to Sept. 4.
> 
> 
> Overall, Franklin Pierce gets good marks for its polls and the results are in the same ballpark as many other polls. For example, the poll showed Clinton ahead by three points, 44 percent to 41 percent. Eight percent of respondents back Gary Johnson.
> 
> 
> The poll showed that Trump has a very favorable rating among among 18.4 percent of 105 Hispanics, and 10.5 percent of 101 African Americans. He also scored a “somewhat favorable” rating among 16.4 percent of Hispanics and 13.3 percent of African Americans. Combined, he gets a positive rating from 35 percent of Hispanics and 24 percent of African Americans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s apparently better than Gov. Mitt Romney, whose nationwide ballot-box score in 2012 was 27 percent support among Hispanics and 6 percent of African Americans.
> 
> 
> Trump isn’t going to win a majority of either bloc. Forty-nine percent of Hispanics and 69 percent of African Americans have a “very unfavorable “ view of Trump. But every percent of Hispanic support helps Trump in the critical state of Florida, and every percent of African American support helps Trump in a few northern states, such as Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.
> 
> 
> Notably, Hillary Clinton has a “very unfavorable” rating from 48 percent of Hispanics and 15 percent of African-Americans. That leaves Clinton’s “very unfavorable “ score among Hispanics level with Trump’s “very unfavorable” score.
> 
> 
> Those ratings, however, have a relatively high error margin because of the low number of Hispanics and African-Americans in the poll.
> 
> 
> In comments about the poll, conservative author Ann Coulter said the poll shows significant support among lower-income minorities for Trump’s low-immigration, high-wage, reform plans.
> 
> 
> “There is nothing frightening about Trump if you’re here legally, and he is going to bring back jobs and raise your wages,” Coulter told Herald Radio. “They left [their home countries], they like America, they came here, and they’d like a raise,” she said in a Herald Radio interview Sept. 6. “I like that Trump is appealing to all working class people.”
> 
> *
> 
> *​



Almost all polls except for LA times are still showing Clinton in the lead.


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## cloud4000

It will be interesting to see how the poll numbers square with the actual results. One wonders if the people asked in the poll will actually show up on election day.


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## RabzonKhan

*The Observer view on Hillary Clinton’s fitness to lead America

Democratic presidential candidate is constantly held to a higher standard than her contemporaries




*
Hillary Clinton combines intelligence, courage, energy, determination and a powerful sense of destiny. Photograph: ddp USA/Rex/Shutterstock

Observer editorial
Sunday 18 September 2016

In American presidential campaigns, September is the cruellest month. It is the time, following the long summer break, when partisan warfare resumes in earnest. It is the moment when the gloves really come off. The primary season is past, the Democratic and Republican party conventions are over, the presidential nominees have been formally acclaimed. Now begins the hard, fast, unforgiving head-to-head run towards November’s national winning post.

*Hillary Clinton should be cantering towards a clear victory. After 25 years in public life, the Democratic candidate has unmatched experience. She has been tested in roles as varied as first lady, senator and secretary of state. She has raised the profile of women in politics to new heights, taking her lifelong role as “ceiling-cracker” (her word) to the doors of the Oval Office. In Donald Trump, she faces a fourth-rate rival who has proved himself unfit for office, a bigoted, ignorant man who feeds off lies and hate. She should be a shoo-in.*

Instead, September has seen Clinton stumble. As independent and undecided voters begin to focus on their choice, Clinton’s unusually poor approval ratings are assuming critical importance. Trump’s risible, insincere attempts to move away from the extreme right have given him an undeserved bounce. Clinton’s averaged-out poll lead is down to less than two points. In some surveys, Trump is actually moving ahead.

Clinton’s biggest stumble was a physical one, in New York last Sunday when she fainted, almost fell, lost a shoe and had to be helped away. The subsequent furore, her belated admission she was suffering from pneumonia, the realisation this had been concealed for days and the suspicion she was hiding something worse conspired to highlight one of Clinton’s two big vulnerabilities: lack of trust. Put bluntly, when she states a fact, makes a pledge or offers an explanation, there is a widespread tendency not to believe her.

Trust is always a big issue in presidential campaigns. But in Clinton’s case, as has become customary throughout her career, she is constantly held to a higher standard than her contemporaries. She has, for example, been relentlessly castigated over her use of private email when secretary of state. Ideally, she would have adopted a more secure method of communication. But not even the most rabid Republicans have demonstrated any serious consequences as a result. That predecessors did the same thing and escaped censure is not viewed as a double standard.

Clinton was in charge when the US mission in Benghazi, Libya, was attacked and its diplomats killed in 2012. But to blame her, rather than Barack Obama, or the CIA, or the Marine Corps – whose job is to protect embassies – is grossly unfair. To criticise Clinton for her refusal to divorce Bill after his relationship with White House intern Monica Lewinsky was revealed is to treat her very differently from the partners of other erring politicians.

Clinton is still dogged by the so-called White House travel office scandal of early 1993, an insignificant affair but one that established the subsequent, long-lasting narrative of a bossy, arrogant, untruthful person who brooks no criticism. Whether the issue is healthcare reform, which she attempted as first lady and was pilloried for, or sensitive questions of equal rights, which she has championed with growing confidence in recent years, Clinton has been hounded at every turn in a hostile, frequently crude manner that other public figures simply do not experience.

A common factor in all of these controversies is the fact that Clinton is a woman – which despite all that has been achieved over women’s rights, remains her other big political vulnerability. For being a Yale-trained lawyer and partner in a leading law firm, for retaining her maiden name of Rodham, for insisting on maintaining an independentlife while married to a president, for pursuing a political career in tandem with motherhood, and now for presuming to become America’s first female leader, it seems a significant chunk of the public and the media cannot forgive her.

Clinton has been called a feminazi, a shrew, a scold, a harridan, even a dominatrix who has emasculated America. Her famous 1992 defence of her troubled marriage – “I’m not sitting here some little woman standing by my man like Tammy Wynette. I’m sitting here because I love him and I respect him” – was misrepresented as proof that she looked down on traditional female roles. She fuelled the misogynist fire by defending her legal career: “I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas but what I decided to do was fulfil my profession, which I entered before my husband was in public life.”

For supposedly outraged conservatives, the storyline of Hillary, untrustworthy betrayer of American womanhood, was set in stone. It has not changed much since, and according to Tammy Vigil of Boston University, Clinton is still struggling with it. “Right out of the gate she was getting slammed for the pantsuits, the hair, the headbands, her appearance, her life choices, and everything she said was so heavily scrutinised. I think she became defensive. And now she’s trying not to be as defensive, but it’s sort of still there.” Even her recent illness was used to fortify this critique: namely, that Clinton, unlike the 17-stone, 70-year-old Trump, cannot take the strain, cannot be trusted to tell the truth, and is unfit for office,

Far from undermining women, Clinton is a standard bearer on the cusp of an historic breakthrough. It may be said she lacks a new vision of governance, that her ideas are rooted in the discredited Clinton-Blair New Democrat/New Labour era, and that, in foreign affairs, she can be both too aggressive (for example, towards Iran) and too cautious, as on Palestinian rights. In personal dealings, she is undoubtedly sometimes prickly and impatient, though these failings are exaggerated.

*At the same time, her achievement in overcoming the extraordinary bias and prejudice ranged against her is admirable. Clinton combines intelligence, courage, energy, determination and a powerful sense of destiny. That she is by any measure the best candidate on offer in November cannot be sensibly denied. That she is America’s last defence against Trump’s appalling sexism, racial prejudice and dangerous xenophobia is seriously sobering. Like her or not – totally trust her or not – Clinton deserves support. Non-voters across the globe must hope she will avoid new stumbles, keeps well – and wins.*





Desert Fox said:


> *Hillary Clinton Campaign Stealing From Poorest Donors*​Wells Fargo fraud department inundated with calls from low-income Clinton supporters reporting repeated unauthorized charges
> 
> 
> By Liz Crokin • 09/15/16 2:35pm
> 
> 
> View attachment 335375
> 
> _Hillary for America processed a total of $94 in unauthorized charges to Carol Mahre’s _
> _US Bank account. This follows a pattern in which unwitting donors are charged multiple
> times,but always for a total of less than $100, which is a key triggerpoint for banks’_
> _ internal action systems. Photo: Courtesy Carol Mahre_​
> *Hillary Clinton’s campaign is stealing from her poorest supporters by purposefully and repeatedly overcharging them after they make what’s supposed to be a one-time small donation through her official campaign website, multiple sources tell the Observer.*
> 
> The overcharges are occurring so often that the fraud department at one of the nation’s biggest banks receives up to 100 phone calls a day from Clinton’s small donors asking for refunds for unauthorized charges to their bankcards made by Clinton’s campaign. One elderly Clinton donor, who has been a victim of this fraud scheme, has filed a complaint with her state’s attorney general and a representative from the office told her that they had forwarded her case to the Federal Election Commission.
> 
> *“We get up to a hundred calls a day from Hillary’s low-income supporters complaining about multiple unauthorized charges,”* a source, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of job security, from the Wells Fargo fraud department told the Observer. The source claims that the Clinton campaign has been pulling this stunt since Spring of this year. The Hillary for America campaign will overcharge small donors by repeatedly charging small amounts such as $20 to the bankcards of donors who made a one-time donation. *However, the Clinton campaign strategically doesn’t overcharge these donors $100 or more because the bank would then be obligated to investigate the fraud.*
> 
> “We don’t investigate fraudulent charges unless they are over $100,” the fraud specialist explained. “The Clinton campaign knows this, that’s why we don’t see any charges over the $100 amount, they’ll stop the charges just below $100. We’ll see her campaign overcharge donors by $20, $40 or $60 but never more than $100.” The source, who has worked for Wells Fargo for over 10 years, said that the total amount they refund customers on a daily basis who have been overcharged by Clinton’s campaign “varies” but the bank usually issues refunds that total between $700 and $1,200 per day.
> 
> The fraud specialist said that Clinton donors who call in will attempt to resolve the issue with the campaign first but they never get anywhere. “They will call the Clinton campaign to get their refund and the issue never gets resolved. So they call us and we just issue the refund. The Clinton campaign knows these charges are small potatoes and that we’ll just refund the money back.”
> 
> The source said that pornography companies often deploy a similar arrangement pull. “We see this same scheme with a lot of seedy **** companies,” the source said. The source also notes that the dozens of phone calls his department receives daily are from people who notice the fraudulent charges on their statements. “The people who call us are just the ones who catch the fraudulent charges. I can’t imagine how many more people are getting overcharged by Hillary’s campaign and they have no idea.”
> 
> *The source said he’s apolitical but noted that the bank’s fraud department is yet to receive one call from a Donald Trump supporter claiming to have been overcharged by Trump’s campaign. “I’m only talking to you because what Hillary’s doing is so messed up, she’s stealing from her poorest supporters.”*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​Carol Mahre has been charged multiple times after signing up for a one-time donation. Her son, Roger Mahre, is an attorney who filed a complaint with Minnesota’s attorney general. Photo: Courtesy Carol Mahre
> 
> Wells Fargo recently came under fire after news broke that various regulators fined the big bank $185 million for opening 2 million phony customer accounts without their customers’ permission. This massive scandal resulted in the firing of 5,300 Wells Fargo employees.
> 
> Carol Mahre, an 81-year-old grandmother of seven from Minnesota, is one of the victims of Clinton’s campaign donor fraud scandal. In March, Mahre said she made a one-time $25 donation via Clinton’s official campaign website. However, when she received her U.S. Bank card statement, she noticed multiple $25 charges were made. Mahre, who said in an interview she only contributed $25 because she’s “not rich” and that’s all she could afford, contacted her son, Roger Mahre, to help her dispute the unauthorized charges.
> 
> Roger, who is an attorney, told the Observer that he called the Clinton campaign dozens of times in April and early May in an attempt to resolve the issue. “It took me at least 40 to 50 phone calls to the campaign office before I finally got ahold of someone,” Roger said. “After I got a campaign worker on the phone, she said they would stop making the charges.”
> 
> Incredibly, the very next day, Carol’s card was charged yet again and the campaign had never reversed the initial fraudulent charges. *“I was told they would stop charging my mother’s card but they never stopped.”* He added that he knows his mother did not sign up for recurring payments. “She’s very good with the internet so I know she only made a one-time payment.” *Roger also pointed out that even if his mother mistakenly signed up for recurring monthly payments then she should’ve been charged for the same amount of money each month, not multiple charges for varying amounts on the same day or in the same month.* Furthermore, Roger said that after the campaign was made aware of this situation, the charges should’ve stopped but they never did.
> 
> The Clinton campaign overcharged Carol $25 three times and then overcharged her one time for $19, a grand total of $94 in fraudulent charges. The campaign’s overcharges to Carol were just a few dollars short of $100. This is in line with what the Wells Fargo bank source revealed to the Observer.
> 
> Since the campaign failed to amend the problem for Carol, Roger contacted her bank, U.S. Bank. However, he ran into problems when he asked U.S. Bank to refund his mother’s money. Roger told the Observer that the bank would not reverse the charges and that a bank spokesperson told him that they had no control over companies that make unauthorized charges. At that point, Roger decided to contact his local news and filed a fraud complaint with Minnesota Attorney General Lori Swanson’s office on behalf of his mother. After local TV news Kare 11 ran a story, someone from U.S. Bank contacted Roger the next day and said that they had reversed and stopped the charges to his mother’s card.
> 
> A representative from Minnesota’s Democratic attorney general’s office told Roger that this problem wasn’t in their jurisdiction and that they had forwarded the case to the FEC. However, FEC spokesperson Julia Queen told the Observer they have no record of the case. “We don’t have it,” Queen said. The Observer contacted Swanson’s office and did not hear back.
> 
> Roger did eventually get a letter from a lawyer representing the Clinton campaign. In the letter, the lawyer wrote that his mother would be removed from their donor list; however, the campaign did not take any responsibility for the fraudulent charges.
> 
> “They basically said that they weren’t accepting responsibility for this but they’d remove my mom from the donor list,” he said. Roger is less than happy with the way the Clinton campaign has handled this nightmare for him and his mother. “This is a load of crap!” Mahre said. “The self-righteousness of politicians drives me insane. If you and I did this, we’d be thrown in jail. This is theft, fraud or wire fraud—it’s a federal crime!”
> 
> *Since Carol’s story became public, Roger said he’s heard from other people who have been ripped off by the Clinton campaign. “I’ve heard this is happening to other small donors,” Roger said. “People will donate $25, but then when they receive their credit card statement, they are charged $25 multiple times.”*
> 
> The incident hasn’t just left a bad taste in Roger’s mouth. Carol decided she’s not going to vote for Hillary even though she’s voted for the Democratic presidential nominee every election since President Dwight Eisenhower won reelection in 1956. “My mother is a lifelong Democrat and she’s voted every election in her life for a Democrat but she’s not going to vote for Hillary,” Roger said.
> 
> _The New York Times_ reported in 2007* that Clinton’s first presidential campaign had to refund and subtract hundreds of thousands of dollars from its first-quarter total often because donors’ credit cards were charged twice. Additionally, it was reported that Clinton had to refund a stunning $2.8 million in donations,* three times more than the $900K President Barack Obama’s campaign refunded.
> 
> Another bank source told the Observer that Clinton’s motivation in purposefully overcharging donors is not only to rake in more money for her campaign but also to inflate her small donor numbers reported to the FEC. “This gives a false impression about how much money Clinton has raised,” the source said. “The money that the bank has refunded would not be reflected in the FEC filings till after the election. This gives off the illusion to the public that her support and the amount she’s raised is much greater than what it is in reality.”
> 
> *A Clinton campaign worker named Kathy Callahan, who worked on Clinton’s presidential campaign in 2008, claimed in a blog post that Clinton fraudulently overcharged her by several thousand dollars. She wrote that she voluntarily left the campaign’s finance committee after she discovered $3,000 in unauthorized charges made by Clinton’s campaign to her Visa card. Callahan said the unauthorized charges caused $400 in overdraft and bank charges and put Callahan over the legal donor limit. Callahan said that after a month of “begging and pleading,” she wasn’t able to get her money back until she threatened to go to authorities.* However, when she was finally refunded her money the Clinton campaign refused to compensate her for the $400 in overdraft and bank charges.
> 
> Callahan also wrote that Matt McQueeney, who worked in the compliance and accounting department at Clinton’s campaign headquarters at the time, told her, “What happened to you with credit card errors is happening to others.” McQueeney reportedly parted ways with the Clinton campaign shortly after this incident occurred. Backing up what McQueeney claimed, there were several incidents similar to Callahan’s reported in 2008. Callahan and McQueeney could not be reached for comment.
> 
> In 2001, the Clintons were accused of attempting to steal items donated to the White House during Bill’s presidency as he exited office. There was $190,000 worth of gifts in question that the Clintons shipped to their then new estate in Chappaqua, New York. Multiple donors said that they had understood that the items they had donated during Clinton’s presidency were to stay in the White House as part of the 1993 White House redecoration project. Initially, the Clintons claimed that the items in question were given to them prior to President Clinton taking office; however, government records proved otherwise. Facing strong criticism, the Clintons decided to return several items including $28,500 in furnishings and they paid $86,000 for other gifts.
> 
> Murmurs of theft are nothing new to the Clintons. In 2001, the Clintons were accused of attempting to steal items donated to the White House during Bill’s presidency as he exited office, including $190,000 worth of gifts in question that the Clintons shipped to their new estate in Chappaqua, New York. But Bill begs to differ.
> 
> He recently compared himself to Robin Hood and said that through their foundation he asks people with money to give to people who don’t have money. In reality, the Clintons steal from people who have little money and they’re robbing some of Hillary’s most impoverished supporters—including a poor elderly grandma—to fund her campaign.
> 
> for @RabzonKhan
> 
> 
> ​


Interesting, I have been donating since 2015 I never had a problem.



LA se Karachi said:


> Both candidates are terrible. I personally will not contribute in any way to the election of either. I refuse to be held accountable for their actions as President. I don't want blood on my hands. Maybe people will actually turn out to vote and will pay attention to general election polls before voting in future primary elections.
> 
> If Hillary becomes President, she will do a terrible job on economic issues for the middle and working class. The rich will capture most of the income growth in this country yet again (as they have done since the 1980s/1990s). The Democratic Party at-large will be left holding the bag. A bad Democratic President can do more damage long-term than a bad Republican President.
> 
> We had a candidate that would have won by a significant margin and would have had long coattails for down-ballot candidates across the country, not just in "blue" states or districts. You people chose the other one. Hillary got about 55% of elected delegates. A terrible number considering the circumstances. But she "won" nonetheless.
> 
> You reap what you sow.


Well, it’s your vote, your choice. But I will vote for Hillary Clinton because I believe she has better policies on immigration, economy, climate change, woman’s rights, fair treatment of minorities, increasing the minimum pay, small businesses, foreign policy, nuclear non-proliferation and war on terror.


----------



## Anubis

cloud4000 said:


> It will be interesting to see how the poll numbers square with the actual results. One wonders if the people asked in the poll will actually show up on election day.


We have a horrible voter turnout for a country that calls itself the greatest democracy in the world....the electoral college should be changed...why would I vote if my vote doesn't count?


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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> Well, it’s your vote, your choice. But I will vote for Hillary Clinton




And it's your vote, your choice. Vote for whomever you please. You already helped give us two terrible options, so I don't care much at this point how others vote in the general election. They're free to do whatever they want. I was just responding to the article you posted and why it doesn't mean much to me (and many others like me).



RabzonKhan said:


> because I believe she has better policies on immigration, economy, climate change, woman’s rights, fair treatment of minorities, increasing the minimum pay, small businesses, foreign policy, nuclear non-proliferation and war on terror.




Better, but not nearly good enough. My focus is on economic issues, a neglected part of our modern political discourse (until very recently). Particularly when it comes to tackling income inequality and preserving the middle class in this country. If they want our votes, they will have to nominate a candidate who shares our views.


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## LA se Karachi

From a Simpsons episode 20 years ago in 1996 (when Bill Clinton was running for re-election, interestingly enough). I find it very relevant today:


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## cloud4000

Anubis said:


> We have a horrible voter turnout for a country that calls itself the greatest democracy in the world....the electoral college should be changed...why would I vote if my vote doesn't count?



I feel your pain...

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## T-72M1

ILLary cancels another event.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...lary-unexpectedly-postpones-local-fundraiser-

Trump takes the piss


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/778238281196662784
and holds another huge rally




















-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## T-72M1

lmao, Don King just dropped the N-bomb while introducing Trump


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/778602131024740352
media loses it

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/21/don-king-donald-trump-cleveland-rally
http://www.vox.com/2016/9/21/13000708/don-king-trump
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/22/us/politics/donald-trump-don-king-black-voters.html?_r=0

racial epithet





full event: 





no teleprompter Trump is best Trump, and he's talking about the polls again lol

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## RabzonKhan

Solomon2 said:


> "Dilbert"​


What say you?

Trump's anti-Clinton 'Star of David' tweet appeared on white supremacist site


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## jha

If polls hold like this and Trump stays with in 2% of Hillary, expect Trump to win.


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## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> Regarding israel, *Trump even refused to visit israel* not once but twice during his campaign, something no other American politician would even consider doing.
> 
> Trump Rejects Visit to Israel Before Election: 'I'm Not Traditional' - Haaretz


Nice try, but the real reason was: 

Donald Trump said Thursday that he is postponing his trip to Israel, just a day after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu condemned his proposal to ban U.S. travel for all Muslims.

"I have decided to postpone my trip to Israel and to schedule my meeting with @Netanyahu at a later date after I become President of the U.S.," Trump tweeted. Link


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## maximuswarrior

What a puppet show. Not a day passes by with ridiculous statements being made. The most bizarre elections to have taken place ever. That is what happens when jokers start running for presidency. The US is seriously screwed if Trump were to be elected. I mean really big time. The Americans are already losing some of their allies. With Trump as a leader the US can say goodbye to many African, South American, Middle Eastern and Asian countries. All countries and people this guy has offended and will keep offending. During these elections the US has also become a hotbed of intolerance. All because of Trump's dangerous divisive rhetoric. Mexicans, Muslims, black African Americans, refugees and other minorities have all been targeted. Internally things don't look good either.

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## Solomon2

RabzonKhan said:


> What say you?


Jews don't have a monopoly on six-pointed stars.


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## RabzonKhan

Solomon2 said:


> Jews don't have a monopoly on six-pointed stars.


Who are you trying to fool...........you remind me of Amin Al Husseini.

The Star of David imagery used in a Twitter post by Donald J. Trump this weekend had previously appeared on a message board known for anti-Semitism and white supremacy, as well as on a Twitter account with a history of racially charged comments, according to a report. *Link*






There goes Republican/Alt right propaganda!


*Charity watchdog calls Trump foundation 'unfocused,' Clinton's 'transparent'
*
Kevin McCoy, USA TODAY September 21, 2016

Donald Trump's and Hillary Clinton's non-profit foundations reflect the presidential challengers' publicly perceived styles — "improvisational" versus "systematized" — *a new analysis by a charity watchdog concludes.*

The Donald J. Trump Foundation and the Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation are both "celebrity" organizations, "seeded by money donated by their founders and also serve as a vehicle for members of the public to demonstrate their support of a prominent person," according to the review issued Wednesday by Jacob Harold, CEO of Guidestar, a leading nonprofit watchdog.

But the similarities end there.

*Clinton's foundation is larger, with data from Dec. 31, 2014, showing assets of $354 million compared with $1 million for Trump's non-profit, the analysis said. Additionally, Clinton family tax returns suggest that their foundation accounts for the majority of their charitable giving, the analysis concluded.*

Trump has not released his tax returns, so "it is difficult to know the scale of his charitable activities outside the Trump Foundation," the analysis said. The last donation to the foundation by Trump or any of the other trustees was in 2008, the organization's tax returns show. The review also cited _Washington Post_ reports that were unable to validate that Trump actually donated the money he pledged to charities.

*"All told, the data at hand would suggest that the Clinton family has — at least over the last several years — donated more money (and at a far higher proportion of their wealth) than the Trump family," the Guidestar analysis concluded.*

*Clinton critics have argued that fundraising for her family's foundation compromised her role when she served as secretary of State from 2009 to 2013. There appears to be "little evidence to support this claim," the analysis said, noting that the foundation signed a 2008 memorandum of understanding that Clinton would not have a role with the foundation during her Obama administration tenure.*

"A fair argument can be made that the Clinton Foundation should have been more aggressive in dealing with the perception of potential conflict," the analysis said. *However, the review noted that the organization now shares legal and audit documentation, along with information about its donors — who include Donald and Ivanka Trump.*

*Clinton's foundation also provided qualitative metrics about the success of the global agricultural and educational programs it supports, thereby winning a "transparency seal" from Guidestar.* Trump's foundation did not, leaving the watchdog's analysis to rely on information disclosed in the organization's annual tax returns.

"These forms appear to indicate an unfocused generosity," the analysis said, citing grants of $5,000 to $25,000 issued in 2014 to the Palm Beach Opera, the Police Athletic League and the Ronald McDonald House of New York.

"There is nothing inherently wrong with sprinkling many small grants in unrelated areas," the analysis concluded. "But the Trump Foundation's approach would certainly not meet the standard of focused, proactive grantmaking commonly called 'strategic philanthropy.'"

The Trump and Clinton campaigns did not immediately respond to messages seeking comment on the analysis. *Link*


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## gambit

Anubis said:


> We have a horrible voter turnout for a country that calls itself the greatest democracy in the world....*the electoral college should be changed*...why would I vote if my vote doesn't count?


The idea of the electoral college was more prescient and wise than most people realize.

Money, or economic power, equals to many other expressions of power and influences. Remember the old saying made by Warren G Harding, 29th President, of the US: _The chief business of the American people is business._

Those were his actual words, by the way.

China's Mao Zedong said: _Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun._

Both Harding and Mao are correct, but Mao's method is more direct, overt, blunt, irrevocable, and always more preferable by those who seeks the shortest path to political power. On the other hand, since money, or capital, requires time and efforts to build, political power from money is not so much power as it is more influence, hence, influence is usually indirect, covert, subtle, variable, and not always the desirable mean to achieve a goal.

Think about this for a moment: Does it really matter if the barrel pressed in your back is from a pistol or a rifle ? From a platoon of soldiers or from a single tank ?

For a rich man, to get what he want, if he can get away with using a gun for one minute instead of spending hours to persuade someone, he will chose the gun.

Which lead up to this graphic...






The US Founders realized that economic inequality is inevitable in the new country they were seeking to build. The inequality will come, and did came, from differences in geography, personalities, and technologies. They were not endowed with supernatural powers to see the future. They were just observant and filled with common sense. Societies that lives near water will develop superior shipbuilding technologies and navies. Those that lives on rivers will develop superior knowledge and methods of bulk transportation. Those that lives on fertile land will develop superior farming techniques. And so on. It is inevitable that some will fail and some will succeed. Economic inequality at every level of human societies is inevitable.

Thankfully, we are neither Russian nor Chinese who are comfortable with the Stalin and Mao method of political persuasion. We may sneer at the influence of money in politics, but at the subconscious level, we know that it is easier to counter money with money than with gun vs gun. Everybody can make money, but not everybody can make guns.

The electoral college was devised to make all states the political equals of each other in a political union where economic inequality exists. The method forces the candidates to make themselves, or their proxies, available for the people to examine in terms of policies that could and would affect them at the local level. What would a city dweller know about farming and drought ? What would a sea going sailor know about deep underground mining ? What would a grocer in Queens know about data bases and data mining in San Francisco ?

Without the electoral college, looking at the economic output graphic above, which states would wield the most influence and set agendas for a country that literally spans a continent ? Your individual vote does count. The electors in your state needs those individual votes to guide them as to the popular sentiments unique to your state and your economy. One positive side effect of the electoral college is that voting irregularities or even corruption are contained to within a state.

We do not need to make our country the same as Asia or Europe, and least of all, the laughable Russia. Those who are not familiar with US may pretentiously exercise shallow cynicism but in doing so, they failed to realize the smaller scale of economic inequalities in their own countries that gives their politicians unequal influences among each other.

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## X-2.

Peoples are selected not elected they already elected Hilary Clinton!


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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump's anti-Clinton 'Star of David' tweet appeared on white supremacist site





RabzonKhan said:


> anti-Semitism and white supremacy








crooked hillary speaks to small crowds











Donald Trump Holds Rally in Toledo, OH

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Nice try, but the real reason was:
> 
> Donald Trump said Thursday that he is postponing his trip to Israel, just a day after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu condemned his proposal to ban U.S. travel for all Muslims.
> 
> "I have decided to postpone my trip to Israel and to schedule my meeting with @Netanyahu at a later date after I become President of the U.S.," Trump tweeted. Link


Wow, you are a liar just like your candidate. You do know the incident you are talking about was from* last December 2015 (which is why you didn't post the link)* while the link i posted of Donald Trump refusing to visit Israel is from *July 2016
*
You prove why Pakistan has corrupt politicians, its because of people like you. And now you brought your crap here to the USA.



RabzonKhan said:


> Trump's anti-Clinton 'Star of David' tweet appeared on white supremacist site


I think you should be more concerned about the Taliban who are supporting your candidate.


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## maximuswarrior

Desert Fox said:


> Wow, you are a liar just like your candidate. You do know the incident you are talking about was from* last December 2015 (which is why you didn't post the link)* while the link i posted of Donald Trump refusing to visit Israel is from *July 2016
> *
> You prove why Pakistan has corrupt politicians, its because of people like you. And now you brought your crap here to the USA.
> 
> 
> I think you should be more concerned about the Taliban who are supporting your candidate.
> 
> View attachment 336850​



An Indian lecturing others about corruption LOL This day had to come as well. One of the most corrupt countries on the planet is India. Read what your own papers have to say about it. http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ost-pressing-issues-for-india-survey-2997387/

LOL at Indians supporting Trump. What a joke.


----------



## Desert Fox

*Bush Crime Family To Vote For Hillary Because "She's The War Candidate", Says "Syria's Assad Must Go"*​





(CNN)Former President George H.W. Bush said Monday that he will vote for Hillary Clinton in November, according to sources close to the 41st President -- an extraordinary rebuke of his own party's nominee.

The sources said this was not the first time Bush had disclosed his intention to vote for Clinton.



maximuswarrior said:


> An Indian lecturing others about corruption LOL This day had to come as well. One of the most corrupt countries on the planet is India.


I'm Pakistani you blind moron. But why do you care considering your not from either? Unless you are hiding behind foreign flag because you're too ashamed of your real flag.


----------



## CorporateAffairs

Hillary is the most cruel women in USA history.
God forbid if she wins, world will be a very dangerous place.

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## Desert Fox

CorporateAffairs said:


> Hillary is the most cruel women in USA history.
> God forbid if she wins, world will be a very dangerous place.


She just got endorsed by the Bush crime family that gave the world ISIS. This should be a sign of warning to the world as to what kind of things she will do should she come into power.

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## maximuswarrior

Desert Fox said:


> *Bush Crime Family To Vote For Hillary Because "She's The War Candidate", Says "Syria's Assad Must Go"*​
> View attachment 336851​
> 
> (CNN)Former President George H.W. Bush said Monday that he will vote for Hillary Clinton in November, according to sources close to the 41st President -- an extraordinary rebuke of his own party's nominee.
> 
> The sources said this was not the first time Bush had disclosed his intention to vote for Clinton.
> 
> 
> I'm Pakistani you blind moron. But why do you care considering your not from either? Unless you are hiding behind foreign flag because you're too ashamed of your real flag.



Changed your flags lately? We all know where you are really from. Everyone on this forum knows the crap you spew in every other thread just like in this thread.

The mods would have banned me long ago had I been a false flagger. There is nothing to be ashamed stupid Indian.

No Pakistani in their right mind would support Trump. Only a stupid Indian clown like you is capable of such a thing.


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## Desert Fox

maximuswarrior said:


> We all know where you are really from. Everyone on this forum knows the crap you spew in every other thread just like in this thread.
> 
> The mods would have banned me long ago had I been a false flagger. There is nothing to be ashamed stupid Indian.​

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## maximuswarrior

Desert Fox said:


> View attachment 336857​



Reported you Indian clown.


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## Hassan_Ishtiaq

maximuswarrior said:


> The mods would have banned me long ago had I been a false flagger.


Wouldn't they have banned him if he was a false flagger?


----------



## maximuswarrior

Desert Fox said:


> View attachment 336858​



Don't change the picture. You have been reported for the obscene words.


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## T-72M1

maximuswarrior said:


> Changed your flags lately? We all know where you are really from. Everyone on this forum knows the crap you spew in every other thread just like in this thread.
> 
> The mods would have banned me long ago had I been a false flagger. There is nothing to be ashamed stupid Indian.
> 
> No Pakistani in their right mind would support Trump. Only a stupid Indian clown like you is capable of such a thing.


can we please keep this India/Pak bs away from this thread ?

Desert Fox is an American citizen of Pak origin, his reasons for supporting Trump are the same as mine, which is that crooked hillary is a neocon interventionist who has left a trail of death and destruction in her wake with everything she has touched, especially in the middle east with her policies in Libya, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt etc. 

So despite his flaws (he has a few lol), he is by far the more common sense choice between the two and the world will be much better off with him in the white house.

The problem with too many people is that they get their Trump news in snippets from the msm and their 'pundits'. Watch the rallies, listen to what he's saying and I guarantee a different picture of him will emerge.

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## T-72M1

https://www.washingtonpost.com/vide...142b3e-8072-11e6-9578-558cc125c7ba_video.html

wow, so sickly that she's doing rallies via video conferencing now ?

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## Desert Fox

T-72M1 said:


> Desert Fox is an American citizen of Pak origin, his reasons for supporting Trump are the same as mine, which is that crooked hillary is a neocon interventionist who has left a trail of death and destruction in her wake with everything she has touched, especially in the middle east with her policies in Libya, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt etc.
> 
> So despite his flaws (he has a few lol), he is by far the more common sense choice between the two and the world will be much better off with him in the white house.
> 
> The problem with too many people is that they get their Trump news in snippets from the msm and their 'pundits'. Watch the rallies, listen to what he's saying and I guarantee a different picture of him will emerge.



Hey man, didn't you know? Real Pakistanis/Muslims vote for Hillary so she can bomb and destroy more Muslim countries 

Anyone else who claims to be Pakistani and supports Trump is actually an indian.











T-72M1 said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/vide...142b3e-8072-11e6-9578-558cc125c7ba_video.html
> 
> wow, so sickly that she's doing rallies via video conferencing now ?


Could you imagine if Trump was doing that? There would be a complete media storm.



Hassan_Ishtiaq said:


> Wouldn't they have banned him if he was a false flagger?



Ignore the troll. This @maximuswarrior chum is actually a troll account of another member who's to coward to use his real account.

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## maximuswarrior

T-72M1 said:


> can we please keep this India/Pak bs away from this thread ?
> 
> Desert Fox is an American citizen of Pak origin, his reasons for supporting Trump are the same as mine, which is that crooked hillary is a neocon interventionist who has left a trail of death and destruction in her wake with everything she has touched, especially in the middle east with her policies in Libya, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt etc.
> 
> So despite his flaws (he has a few lol), he is by far the more common sense choice between the two and the world will be much better off with him in the white house.
> 
> The problem with too many people is that they get their Trump news in snippets from the msm and their 'pundits'. Watch the rallies, listen to what he's saying and I guarantee a different picture of him will emerge.



Tell that to your Indian friend and stop quoting me. He is the one who brought in Pakistan. Not me.



Desert Fox said:


> Hey man, didn't you know? Real Pakistanis/Muslims vote for Hillary so she can bomb and destroy more Muslim countries
> 
> Anyone else who claims to be Pakistani and supports Trump is actually an indian.
> 
> View attachment 336886
> 
> View attachment 336887​
> 
> 
> Could you imagine if Trump was doing that? There would be a complete media storm.
> 
> 
> 
> Ignore the troll. This @maximuswarrior chum is actually a troll account of another member who's to coward to use his real account.



Says the coward who changed the first picture in his previous post.

LOL A Pakistani supporting Trump? Who are you even fooling? I hope you fools get your wish. Trump the clown leading the US LOL a laughing stock of the world.


----------



## T-72M1

Desert Fox said:


> Hey man, didn't you know? Real Pakistanis/Muslims vote for Hillary so she can bomb and destroy more Muslim countries
> 
> Anyone else who claims to be Pakistani and supports Trump is actually an indian.


I know, what a completely retarded perspective, literally self destructing even.

I'm Indian, and from that perspective she's probably a safer bet for improved ties and whatnot but that's not how I'm watching this. I just can't bring myself to support this evil reanimated corpse or a person from a human perspective.

She has been the cause of so much misery and death all over the world, she shouldn't even be allowed to run afaic. Misery and death which, btw, Trump has rued time and again. The guy keeps stressing how he feels about all the chaos on what he calls "the other side" but the dishonest media never cover it.



Desert Fox said:


> Could you imagine if Trump was doing that? There would be a complete media storm.


or, as he'd say, "the electric chair" lol

She's clearly very ill and being propped up by drugs to get through 5 and 10 minute scripted media appearances without breaking into an uncontrolled cough or fainting/having a seizure, not sure she can manage a full hour and a half debating Trump. They might try to pull out citing one excuse or another, wouldn't surprise me if they did anyway.



maximuswarrior said:


> Tell that to your Indian friend and stop quoting me.


 How old are you, 12 ?

take a sip of cold water and let's debate the facts, shall we ?


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## maximuswarrior

T-72M1 said:


> I know, what a completely retarded perspective, literally self destructing even.
> 
> I'm Indian, and from that perspective she's probably a safer bet for improved ties and whatnot but that's not how I'm watching this. I just can't bring myself to support this evil reanimated corpse or a person from a human perspective.
> 
> She has been the cause of so much misery and death all over the world, she shouldn't even be allowed to run afaic. Misery and death which, btw, Trump has rued time and again. The guy keeps stressing how he feels about all the chaos on what he calls "the other side" but the dishonest media never cover it.
> 
> 
> or, as he'd say, "the electric chair" lol
> 
> She's clearly very ill and being propped up by drugs to get through 5 and 10 minute scripted media appearances without breaking into an uncontrolled cough or fainting/having a seizure, not sure she can manage a full hour and a half debating Trump. They might try to pull out citing one excuse or another, wouldn't surprise me if they did anyway.
> 
> 
> How old are you, 12 ?
> 
> take a sip of cold water and let's debate the facts, shall we ?



We are supposed to believe that Trump is an angel and is going to shower flowers on Muslims. Who are you people kidding? The guy goes on record and says the most ridiculous stuff about Mexicans, Muslims, invalid people and the list goes on. Comparing human refugees to a bowl of skittles. Don't even get me started.

Anyone can do the math why certain Indians are supporting Trump. He hates Muslims and has promised to go after Pakistan. That idea turns nationalistic Indians on. Of course, Trump is only a foulmouthed lying joker. He isn't going to do anything.

To say that Trump is better than Hillary is the most ridiculous thing I have heard to date. Hillary might be cunning and even corrupt, but even then she is a million times better than that thickhead Trump. It is absurd. It is beyond ridiculous and you call me a 12 year old? Don't ridicule the word facts.



T-72M1 said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/vide...142b3e-8072-11e6-9578-558cc125c7ba_video.html
> 
> wow, so sickly that she's doing rallies via video conferencing now ?



Another gem by the Trump maniacs. She is sick and not suitable to run the office. The extreme length to which stupid Trump supporters are willing to go is mindboggling.


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## T-72M1

maximuswarrior said:


> We are supposed to believe that Trump is an angel and is going to shower flowers on Muslims.Who are you people kidding? The guy goes on record and says the most ridiculous stuff about Mexicans, Muslims, invalid people and the list goes on.
> 
> Anyone can do the math why certain Indians are supporting Trump. He hates Muslims and has promised to go after Pakistan.


First off, nobody is claiming he's an angel, wtf.. and no, muslim or not, he's not going to 'shower flowers'  on anyone. He's just a brash New Yorker, and a billionaire, so if you have any idea about the US, do the math.

read again, I already addressed your "Indians supporting Trump" in a previous post. Same weak strawman people bring up wrt some white nationalists supporting Trump. You really going to throw everyone under the bus for sake of a tiny minority who have retarded logic behind their support of Trump ? 

*#notall... * 



maximuswarrior said:


> To say that Trump is better than Hillary is the most ridiculous thing I have heard to date.


to even attempt to claim otherwise is beyond retarded, please open your eyes !


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## maximuswarrior

T-72M1 said:


> First off, nobody is claiming he's an angel, wtf.. and no, muslim or not, he's not going to 'shower flowers'  on anyone. He's just a brash New Yorker, and a billionaire, so if you have any idea about the US, do the math.
> 
> read again, I already addressed your "Indians supporting Trump" in a previous post. Same weak strawman people bring up wrt some white nationalists supporting Trump. You really going to throw everyone under the bus for sake of a tiny minority who have retarded logic behind their support of Trump ?
> 
> *#notall... *
> 
> 
> to even attempt to claim otherwise is beyond retarded, please open your eyes !



Who are you fooling? There is nothing to reason about Trump the madman. You can't defend a single Trump insult. He labels Mexicans rapists. He wants to build a wall and wants to make Mexico pay for it. He wants to ban Muslims from entering the US. He ridicules disabled people. He hates Pakistani Muslim soldiers who have sacrificed for his country. He claims not to know David Duke LOL He doesn't distance and disavow KKK. His son compares people of flesh and blood with skittles. Trump flips flops on Obama's birth place. He supported the Iraq war and is now lying that he didn't. Are you claiming that this man is better than Hillary? The entire world is laughing at the fool known as Trump. Stop convincing me that Trump is a prophet or savior who has all the answers.

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## T-72M1

maximuswarrior said:


> Another gem by the Trump maniacs. She is sick and not suitable to run the office. The extreme length to which stupid Trump supporters are willing to go is mindboggling.
















they were denying and calling everyone a conspiracy theorist until they caught one of her seizures on camera 

just look at her schedule, only small scripted events and fundraisers, she's hardly been on the trail at all this past month, she has nothing significant planned for the remainder of the race either, she's lost a 10+ point lead and is losing in some significant swing state polls yet she won't go out campaigning ? 

something is clearly not right, almost like she feels entitled to the throne.. well, guess what, _not gonna happen _


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## maximuswarrior

T-72M1 said:


> they were denying and calling everyone a conspiracy theorist until they caught one of her seizures on camera
> 
> just look at her schedule, only small scripted events and fundraisers, she's hardly been on the trail at all this past month, she has nothing significant planned for the remainder of the race either, she's lost a 10+ point deficit lead and is losing in some significant swing state polls yet she won't go out campaigning ?
> 
> something is clearly not right, almost like she feels entitled to the throne.. well, guess what, _not gonna happen _



Wow! She had a seizure and that somehow disqualifies her to run for office? What kind of a stupid logic is that? Stop making up conspiracy theories. The woman has pneumonia for goodness sake.

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## T-72M1

maximuswarrior said:


> Who are you fooling? There is nothing to reason about Trump the madman. You can't defend a single Trump insult. He labels Mexicans rapists. He wants to build a wall and wants to make Mexico pay for it. He wants to ban Muslims from entering the US. He ridicules disabled people. He hates Pakistani Muslim soldiers who have sacrificed for his country. He claims not to know David Duke LOL He doesn't distance and disavow KKK. His son compares people of flesh and blood with skittles. Trump flips flops on Obama's birth place. He supported the Iraq war and is now lying that he didn't. Are you claiming that this man is better than Hillary? The entire world is laughing at the fool known as Trump. Stop convincing me that Trump is a prophet or savior who has all the answers.


you're very good with your talking points, all have been discussed to death and debunked, go through the thread, I'm not going to waste my time on those anymore.

and again, I'm not interested in convincing anyone that Trump is a "prophet" LOL  

I am convinced he is the better of the two, tag me once/if you ever get past your media talking points list and maybe we can debate. 

meanwhile: 













MashAllah, soon  

what say @Desert Fox ?

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## maximuswarrior

T-72M1 said:


> you're very good with your talking points, all have been discussed to death and debunked, go through the thread, I'm not going to waste my time on those anymore.
> 
> and again, I'm not interested in convincing anyone that Trump is a "prophet" LOL
> 
> I am convinced he is the better of the two, tag me once/if you ever get past your media talking points list and maybe we can debate.
> 
> meanwhile:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MashAllah, soon
> 
> what say @Desert Fox ?



You don't have anything in Trump's defense because he is a xenophobic liar. You haven't debunked anything. Try denying that Trump hasn't said any of the things that I have just summed up.

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## T-72M1

maximuswarrior said:


> You don't have anything in Trump's defense because he is xenophobic liar. You haven't debunked anything. Try denying that Trump hasn't said any of the things that I have said.


like I said, every single one of your points has been discussed and debunked, go back some pages and read through.


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## maximuswarrior

T-72M1 said:


> like I said, every single one of your points has been discussed and debunked, go back some pages and read through.


 
How can you debunk xenophobia?


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## maximuswarrior

T-72M1 said:


> like I said, every single one of your points has been discussed and debunked, go back some pages and read through.


 
How can you debunk xenophobia, hate and lies?

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## T-72M1

maximuswarrior said:


> How can you debunk xenophobia, hate and lies?


only from a certain section of his American supporters, and we do discuss them here, the racial nationalists like Jared Taylor, Ramzpaul and Richard Spencer etc.. and if you watch videos of these guys talking Trump you'll notice how virtually all of them mention that *Trump does not view the world as they do *but they have found some common cause/ground in some of his rhetoric about immigration and on trade deals.

go ahead, do the research, like I said, nobody is claiming he's an angel, far from, politics is a dirty business, but clinton has a proven record of failure in foreign policy while Trump is proposing some bold new common sense proposals such as a détente with Russia/Putin to sort out the middle east, effectively already putting the brakes on the prospects of WW3.

Little wonder that the neocons are all flocking to crooked Hillary, I find it hilarious how how hillary supporters have been rejoicing at news of the likes of Paul Wolfowitz, Robert Kagan and now Bush senior throwing their weight behind her.


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## RabzonKhan

And he likes to call others crooked.


*Trump used $258,000 from his charity to settle legal problems*

By David A. Fahrenthold September 20 2016

The Washington Post's David A. Fahrenthold explains the latest revelations about how Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump may have violated the IRS's rules regarding charitable funds. ( Sarah Parnass / The Washington Post)
Donald Trump spent more than a quarter-million dollars from his charitable foundation to settle lawsuits that involved the billionaire’s for-profit businesses, according to interviews and a review of legal documents.

Those cases, which together used $258,000 from Trump’s charity, were among four newly documented expenditures in which Trump may have violated laws against “self-dealing” — which prohibit nonprofit leaders from using charity money to benefit themselves or their businesses.

In one case, from 2007, Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club faced $120,000 in unpaid fines from the town of Palm Beach, Fla., resulting from a dispute over the height of a flagpole.

In a settlement, Palm Beach agreed to waive those fines — if Trump’s club made a $100,000 donation to a specific charity for veterans. Instead, Trump sent a check from the Donald J. Trump Foundation, a charity funded almost entirely by other people’s money, according to tax records.

In another case, court papers say one of Trump’s golf courses in New York agreed to settle a lawsuit by making a donation to the plaintiff’s chosen charity. A $158,000 donation was made by the Trump Foundation, according to tax records.

The other expenditures involved smaller amounts. In 2013, Trump used $5,000 from the foundation to buy advertisements touting his chain of hotels in programs for three events organized by a D.C. preservation group. And in 2014, Trump spent $10,000 of the foundation’s money on a portrait of himself bought at a charity fundraiser.

Or, rather, another portrait of himself.

Several years earlier, Trump used $20,000 from the Trump Foundation to buy adifferent, six-foot-tall portrait.

Senate Minority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) railed against GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump from the Senate floor Sept. 20. Reid accused Trump of being "incapable of making money honestly." (  / C-SPAN)
If the Internal Revenue Service were to find that Trump violated self-dealing rules, the agency could require him to pay penalty taxes or to reimburse the foundation for all the money it spent on his behalf. Trump is also facing scrutiny from the New York attorney general’s office, which is examining whether the foundation broke state charity laws.

More broadly, these cases also provide new evidence that Trump ran his charity in a way that may have violated U.S. tax law and gone against the moral conventions of philanthropy.

“I represent 700 nonprofits a year, and I’ve never encountered anything so brazen,” said Jeffrey Tenenbaum, who advises charities at the Venable law firm in Washington. After The Washington Post described the details of these Trump Foundation gifts, Tenenbaum described them as “really shocking.”

“If he’s using other people’s money — run through his foundation — to satisfy his personal obligations, then that’s about as blatant an example of self-dealing [as] I’ve seen in awhile,” Tenenbaum said.

The Post sent the Trump campaign a detailed list of questions about the four cases but received no response.

The Trump campaign released a statement about this story late Tuesday that said it was “peppered with inaccuracies and omissions,” though the statement cited none and the campaign has still not responded to repeated requests for comment.

The New York attorney general’s office declined to comment when asked whether its inquiry would cover these new cases of possible self-dealing.

Washington Post reporter David A. Fahrenthold is investigating how much Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump has given to charity over the past seven years. Here's what he found. ( Sarah Parnass / The Washington Post)
Trump founded his charity in 1987 and for years was its only donor. But in 2006, Trump gave away almost all the money he had donated to the foundation, leaving it with just $4,238 at year’s end, according to tax records.

Then, he transformed the Trump Foundation into something rarely seen in the world of philanthropy: a name-branded foundation whose namesake provides none of its money. Trump gave relatively small donations in 2007 and 2008, and afterward, nothing. The foundation’s tax records show no donations from Trump since 2009.

_[In 2007, Trump had to face his own falsehoods. And he did, 30 times.]_

Its money has come from other donors, most notably pro-wrestling executives Vince and Linda McMahon, who gave a total of $5 million from 2007 to 2009, tax records show. Trump remains the foundation’s president, and he told the IRS in his latest public filings that he works half an hour per week on the charity.

The Post has previously detailed other cases in which Trump used the charity’s money in a way that appeared to violate the law.

In 2013, for instance, the foundation gave $25,000 to a political group supporting Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi (R). That gift was made about the same time that Bondi’s office was considering whether to investigate fraud allegations against Trump University. It didn’t.

Tax laws say nonprofit groups such as the Trump Foundation may not make political gifts. Trump staffers blamed the gift on a clerical error. After The Postreported on the gift to Bondi’s group this spring, Trump paid a $2,500 penalty taxand reimbursed the Trump Foundation for the $25,000 donation.

In other instances, it appeared that Trump may have violated rules against self-dealing.

In 2012, for instance, Trump spent $12,000 of the foundation’s money to buy a football helmet signed by then-NFL quarterback Tim Tebow.

And in 2007, Trump’s wife, Melania, bid $20,000 for the six-foot-tall portrait of Trump, done by a “speed painter” during a charity gala at Mar-a-Lago. Later,Trump paid for the painting with $20,000 from the foundation.

In those cases, tax experts said, Trump was not allowed to simply keep these items and display them in a home or business. They had to be put to a charitable use.

Trump’s campaign has not responded to questions about what became of the helmet or the portrait.

The four new cases of possible self-dealing were discovered in the Trump Foundation’s tax filings. While Trump has refused to release his personal tax returns, the foundation’s filings are required to be public.

The case involving the flagpole at Trump’s oceanfront Mar-a-Lago Club began in 2006, when the club put up a giant American flag on the 80-foot pole. Town rules said flagpoles should be 42 feet high at most. Trump’s contention, according to news reports, was: “You don’t need a permit to put up the American flag.”

The town began to fine Trump, $1,250 a day.

Trump’s club sued in federal court, saying that a smaller flag “would fail to appropriately express the magnitude of Donald J. Trump’s . . . patriotism.”

They settled.

The town waived the $120,000 in fines. In September 2007, Trump wrote the town a letter, saying he had done his part as well.

“I have sent a check for $100,000 to Fisher House,” he wrote. The town had chosen Fisher House, which runs a network of comfort homes for the families of veterans and military personnel receiving medical treatment, as the recipient of the money. Trump added that, for good measure, “I have sent a check for $25,000” to another charity, the American Veterans Disabled for Life Memorial.

Trump provided the town with copies of the checks, which show that they came from the Trump Foundation.

In Palm Beach, nobody seems to have objected to the fines assessed on Trump’s business being erased by a donation from a charity. Read more


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## RabzonKhan

T-72M1 said:


>


Trump was just being Trump, lying with a straight face.

Let me make the long story short.

First that image was posted on June 15, 2016 by a well-known racist (@FishBoneHead1) on Twitter , the twitter has banned the scumbag now.

Then on June 22, 2016 the same image was posted on a racist forum.

And then the same image was posted on Trumps twitter account.

Now does that tell you something, think about it?









*Link
Link*





























Desert Fox said:


> Wow, you are a liar just like your candidate. You do know the incident you are talking about was from* last December 2015 (which is why you didn't post the link)* while the link i posted of Donald Trump refusing to visit Israel is from *July 2016
> *
> You prove why Pakistan has corrupt politicians, its because of people like you. And now you brought your crap here to the USA.
> 
> 
> I think you should be more concerned about the Taliban who are supporting your candidate.
> 
> View attachment 336850​


Genius, are you blind, the link is right there you damn just need to open your freaking eyes and see. The reason he is not visiting Israel is because he was snubbed and criticized by Netanyahu for his travel ban on Muslims, now imagine that even Netanyahu could not digest his BS. Trump as usual is lying when he says “I’m not traditional”, if Netanyahu had not criticized him, the lying hypocrite would have no problem visiting Israel in December 2015.

Taliban’s are supporting Hillary, really?

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## ptldM3

maximuswarrior said:


> Who are you fooling? There is nothing to reason about Trump the madman.






Trump the mad man? It is Hilary that is pro war, not Trump. She was in favors of Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Lybia, ect.

She has threatened to "obliterate" Iran and go to war over cyber attacks, she basically said she would attack Russia and China. Now factor in her strange behavior such as literally barking like a dog and rolling here eyes and bobbling her head back and fourth as if she is heavily drugged on PCP.

Who is the real man man? You feel safer with a sociopathic warmonger who is heavily drugged up and suffering from dementia?







maximuswarrior said:


> You can't defend a single Trump insult.* He labels Mexicans rapists.* He wants to build a wall and wants to make Mexico pay for it. He wants to ban Muslims from entering the US. He ridicules disabled people. He hates Pakistani Muslim soldiers who have sacrificed for his country.









No he didn't, stop lying, you are redicolous, just like all liberals you are pulling his speeches out of context, most likely you have never even heard his entire speeches, you just recycle what everyone else says.

Again, he never called all Mexicans rapists, *he was referring to a specific sub group of Illegals *that cross the boarder, in fact he said that he presumed that there are good people that also cross illegally. He was talking about all the criminals and drug runners that cross the US boarder. Do you understand? Probably not, liberal Hilary supporters don't care about facts and have thick skulls. You don't care if you say something that is not true.


By the way, in the past, Hilary was in support of building a wall to keep illegal Mexicans out and when question about it recently she claims it was a "barrier" 


Also since when was building a wall racist? Are you okay in the head? Many countries have some walls or at the minimum armed border patrol. Mexico has a wall on the souther boarder and they have arrested hundreds of thousands of South American migrants.





maximuswarrior said:


> He claims not to know David Duke LOL He doesn't distance and disavow KKK.








Hilary has praised KKK leader Robert Byrd as a "great man"  if this would be Trump the libtards would go crazy.

You Hilary supporters will label everything as "racist" even Pepe the frog is now a racist symbol according to Hilary. Does it get more pathetic?








maximuswarrior said:


> His son compares people of flesh and blood with skittles. Trump flips flops on Obama's birth place.







You want to talk about flip flopping look at Hilary. She was against gay marriage and even said so on camera many times then when gay marriage became popular she changed her position and claimed she was never against gay marriage even though we have video of her claiming otherwise.

Then she condemns organizations that she took hundreds of thousand of dollars from to push laws. She is very easily bought and manipulated. She is not consistent with anything.







maximuswarrior said:


> He supported the Iraq war and is now lying that he didn't. Are you claiming that this man is better than Hillary? The entire world is laughing at the fool known as Trump. Stop convincing me that Trump is a prophet or savior who has all the answers.





Hilary lied repeatedly about her emails, the FBI and congress busted her. She lied about Bengazi, she even lied about being under sniper fire when she landed in Bostia 

We have video of her landing in Bosnia. She is clearly a sociopath and compulsive liar.

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## Nilgiri

ptldM3 said:


> she even lied



I believe the term used was "mis-spoke"


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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump was just being Trump, lying with a straight face.
> 
> Let me make the long story short.
> 
> First that image was posted on June 15, 2016 by a well-known racist (@FishBoneHead1) on Twitter , the twitter has banned the scumbag now.
> 
> Then on June 22, 2016 the same image was posted on a racist forum.
> 
> And then the same image was posted on Trumps twitter account.
> 
> Now does that tell you something, think about it?


lol nobody cares, here, watch another high energy Trump rally 





cant wait for the debates, first one might be a bit below expectation with both playing it easy and testing the waters but there should be some fireworks in the next 2.

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump was just being Trump, lying with a straight face.
> 
> Let me make the long story short.
> 
> First that image was posted on June 15, 2016 by a well-known racist (@FishBoneHead1) on Twitter , the twitter has banned the scumbag now.
> 
> Then on June 22, 2016 the same image was posted on a racist forum.
> 
> And then the same image was posted on Trumps twitter account.
> 
> Now does that tell you something, think about it?



I agree. Trump is a liar.



ptldM3 said:


> Trump the mad man? It is Hilary that is pro war, not Trump. She was in favors of Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Lybia, ect.
> 
> She has threatened to "obliterate" Iran and go to war over cyber attacks, she basically said she would attack Russia and China. Now factor in her strange behavior such as literally barking like a dog and rolling here eyes and bobbling her head back and fourth as if she is heavily drugged on PCP.
> 
> Who is the real man man? You feel safer with a sociopathic warmonger who is heavily drugged up and suffering from dementia?



I agree. Clinton is a liar...and a warmonger.

This is why I'm not going to vote for either of them even though one of them is going to be POTUS. I'm voting third-party. Please don't tell me I'm wasting my vote. Anybody who is voting for one of these two knuckleheads is wasting their vote.

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## Desert Fox

T-72M1 said:


> like I said, every single one of your points has been discussed and debunked, go back some pages and read through.


Don't waste time on the troll. Put him on your ignore list like i did.



RabzonKhan said:


> Genius, are you blind, the link is right there you damn just need to open your freaking eyes and see. The reason he is not visiting Israel is because he was snubbed and criticized by Netanyahu for his travel ban on Muslims, now imagine that even Netanyahu could not digest his BS. Trump as usual is lying when he says “I’m not traditional”, if Netanyahu had not criticized him, the lying hypocrite would have no problem visiting Israel in December 2015.
> 
> Taliban’s are supporting Hillary, really?


The link you posted wasn't for the Natenyahu incident.

And secondly, Natanyahu hating Trump is another good reason for supporting Trump.


----------



## RabzonKhan

Editorial 
*Hillary Clinton would make a sober, smart and pragmatic president. Donald Trump would be a catastrophe.








By The Times Editorial Board
Sep 23, 2016
*
*American voters have a clear choice on Nov. 8. We can elect an experienced, thoughtful and deeply knowledgeable public servant or a thin-skinned demagogue who is unqualified and unsuited to be president. *

Donald J. Trump, a billionaire businessman and television personality, is the latter. He has never held elected office and has shown himself temperamentally unfit to do so. *He has run a divisive, belligerent, dishonest campaign, repeatedly aligning himself with racists, strongmen and thugs while maligning or dismissing large segments of the American public. Electing Trump could be catastrophic for the nation. *

*By contrast, Hillary Clinton is one of the best prepared candidates to seek the presidency in many years. As a first lady, a Democratic senator from New York and secretary of State in President Obama’s first term, she immersed herself in the details of government, which is why her positions on the issues today are infinitely better thought-out than those of her opponent.* 

*She stands for rational, comprehensive immigration reform and an improvement rather than an abandonment of the Affordable Care Act. She supports abortion rights, wants to raise the federal minimum wage to $12 an hour, hopes to reform the sentencing laws that have overcrowded American prisons, would repair the Voting Rights Act and help students to leave college without enormous debt. Abroad she would strengthen America’s traditional alliances, continue the Obama administration’s efforts to “degrade and ultimately defeat” Islamic State and negotiate with potential adversaries such as Russia and China in a way that balances realism and the protection of American interests. Unlike Trump, Clinton accepts the prevailing science on climate change and considers the issue to be “the defining challenge of our time.”

Perhaps her greatest strength is her pragmatism — her ability to build consensus and solve problems. As president, she would be flexible enough and experienced enough to cut across party lines and work productively with her political opponents. As first lady, she worked with Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Massachusetts) and Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) to create the Children’s Health Insurance Program, which provides healthcare coverage to more than 8 million children. As a senator, she was instrumental in persuading a Republican president to deliver billions of dollars in aid to New York after September 11. As secretary of State, she led the charge to persuade nations around the world to impose the tough sanctions on Iran that led to the landmark nuclear agreement, and she negotiated a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas.*

Throughout her public career, beginning with her work in the 1970s for the Children’s Defense Fund, Clinton has advocated for women, children, the poor and minorities. She fought for what came to be known as “Hillarycare” 15 years before “Obamacare” became a thing; she has been outspoken in defense of women’s rights around the globe, including in her powerful and influential speech in Beijing in 1995 proclaiming that “women’s rights are human rights.”

Clinton’s long history of advocacy and public service stands in stark contrast to Trump’s record of virtually no leadership at all. He’s famous and wealthy, a TV personality, a showman — but what in his resume suggests he is qualified to lead the country? In the coming weeks, Trump will no doubt try harder to appear presidential, but surely voters won’t forget the long litany of insults, lies, threats and ignorant statements he has made about everyone from Mexicans and Muslims to a disabled reporter to Sen.John McCain, to the family of a dead Muslim-American soldier, to a federal judge, to President Obama.

*Trump’s ignorance of the issues is manifest. He has called climate change “a hoax” and vowed to renegotiate the Paris climate accord. Obamacare would be repealed and replaced with “something great.”* His signature proposal is to construct a wall along the southern border of the United States — and have Mexico pay the billions of dollars involved. Mexico, unsurprisingly, insists it will not. As for the 11 million immigrants already in the country illegally, they will either be rounded up and deported (though experts say that will cost billions of dollars, disrupt the economy, divide families and require massive violations of civil liberties) or perhaps some will be allowed to remain, living in the shadows.

*Trump doesn’t take America’s global alliances seriously, he has cozied up to Russian strongman Vladimir Putin and he has promised to bring back waterboarding “and worse.” His pronouncements, though vague and sometimes contradictory, raise the specter of an iron-fisted leader taking action based on gut impulses — rather than a president seeking common ground among citizens in a politically polarized country. *

*In the style of earlier demagogues like Huey Long and George Wallace, Trump has aimed his misleading and mean-spirited diatribes at a struggling and frustrated segment of society — apparently touching a chord with voters who have experienced years of stagnant wages, whose jobs are threatened, who feel betrayed by Washington and nostalgic for a more prosperous past. To these voters Trump bashes immigrants and free trade and rails about law and order, promising to make America great again and assuring them that he alone can solve their problems. But those who put their hope in Trump’s politics of resentment and fear are making a terrible mistake. *

*The more rational wing of the Republican party has been appalled by the direction in which the GOP is moving, and its braver members have spoken up.* Mitt Romney called Trump “unfit.” Michael Bloomberg endorsed Clinton. Susan Collins, Lindsey Graham, Meg Whitman and Brent Scowcroft have all declined to support their party’s nominee, as have many others. Fifty national security experts who worked in Republican administrations wrote earlier this year: *“Mr. Trump lacks the character, values, and experience to be president. He weakens U.S. moral authority as the leader of the free world. He appears to lack basic knowledge about and belief in the U.S. Constitution, U.S. laws, and U.S. institutions, including religious tolerance, freedom of the press, and an independent judiciary.”*

Some voters who do not like Trump worry that Clinton, too, has serious shortcomings. And of course she does; all politicians do. She has a penchant for secrecy that has caused her significant problems, not least in the investigation of her ill-advised decision to use a private email server for her official communications as secretary of State. It is true that her family foundation took millions of dollars from foreign leaders and overseas business people while she was in Obama’s cabinet, creating the potential for conflicts of interest. She and her husband have spent years among the rich and powerful and have grown at home in that favor-trading world in a way that makes many voters uneasy. This page has criticized her in the past for adjusting her positions to match popular opinion and for being a little too comfortable with the use of military force. And at least on the hustings, she lacks the authentic, let’s-have-a-beer personality that many voters seek in a candidate.

*To be a great president, she will have to struggle to overcome her own weaknesses. But compared with Trump’s infirmities as a candidate, her failings are insignificant. It’s absurd — and perilous — to portray this election, as so many are doing, as a choice of the “lesser of two evils” or to suggest that her flaws are in any way on a level with his.* 

*Neither Libertarian Gary Johnson nor Green Party candidate Jill Stein offers a serious alternative to the major-party candidates. Even voters who have questions about Clinton must recognize that neither Stein nor Johnson stands a chance of winning — and that a vote for either is merely one less vote for the only candidate who can defeat Trump.* Besides, neither is a better candidate than Clinton; both were interviewed at length by The Times editorial board, and despite certain superficial appeal, neither comes close to matching Clinton’s qualifications, expertise or understanding of the political process.

The election of Hillary Clinton as the first female president of the United States would surely be as exhilarating as it is long overdue, a watershed moment in American history after centuries of discrimination against women. But that’s not the chief reason to vote for her. *She deserves America’s support because she is the overwhelmingly better candidate. Against a Romney or a McCain, she would almost certainly be our choice. Against Trump? The question answers itself.*

*Every presidential race is described as ”defining” and historic.” This time, it’s true. Americans must not sit this election out, but cast their votes for Hillary Clinton over her dangerous Republican opponent, Donald Trump.* *Link*





Desert Fox said:


> *The link you posted wasn't for the Natenyahu incident.*
> 
> And secondly, Natanyahu hating Trump is another good reason for supporting Trump.


What’s wrong with you?

*Trump 'postpones' Israel trip after Netanyahu criticism*

*By **Tom LoBianco**, CNN*
*
Washington (CNN) *Donald Trump said Thursday that he is postponing his trip to Israel, just a day after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu condemned his proposal to ban U.S. travel for all Muslims.

"I have decided to postpone my trip to Israel and to schedule my meeting with @Netanyahu at a later date after I become President of the U.S.," Trump tweeted.

Trump had planned to meet with Netanyahu December 28 in Israel, according to an Israeli government official, but shortly after the meeting was reported, Netanyahu's office condemned Trump's comments about Muslims.

"Prime Minister Netanyahu rejects Donald Trump's recent remarks about Muslims," according to a statement issued by the prime minister's office.

"The State of Israel respects all religions and strictly guarantees the rights of all its citizens. At the same time, Israel is fighting against militant Islam that targets Muslims, Christians and Jews alike and threatens the entire world," the statement said. *Read more*


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## T-72M1

Lyin' Ted finally comes around


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## RabzonKhan

T-72M1 said:


> lol nobody cares, here, watch another high energy Trump rally


Trust me millions of Americans care and it will cost him big time, just wait and see.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/778036983558004736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/777966037908221952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/777915454186749952


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## Nilgiri

TED CRUZ ENDORSES TRUMP.

https://www.facebook.com/tedcruzpage/posts/10154476728267464

*Ted Cruz*
2 hrs ·
This election is unlike any other in our nation’s history. Like many other voters, I have struggled to determine the right course of action in this general election.

In Cleveland, I urged voters, “please, don’t stay home in November. Stand, and speak, and vote your conscience, vote for candidates up and down the ticket whom you trust to defend our freedom and to be faithful to the Constitution.”

After many months of careful consideration, of prayer and searching my own conscience, I have decided that on Election Day, I will vote for the Republican nominee, Donald Trump.

I’ve made this decision for two reasons. First, last year, I promised to support the Republican nominee. And I intend to keep my word.

Second, even though I have had areas of significant disagreement with our nominee, by any measure Hillary Clinton is wholly unacceptable — that’s why I have always been #NeverHillary.

Six key policy differences inform my decision. First, and most important, the Supreme Court. For anyone concerned about the Bill of Rights — free speech, religious liberty, the Second Amendment — the Court hangs in the balance. I have spent my professional career fighting before the Court to defend the Constitution. We are only one justice away from losing our most basic rights, and the next president will appoint as many as four new justices. We know, without a doubt, that every Clinton appointee would be a left-wing ideologue. Trump, in contrast, has promised to appoint justices “in the mold of Scalia.”

For some time, I have been seeking greater specificity on this issue, and today the Trump campaign provided that, releasing a very strong list of potential Supreme Court nominees — including Sen. Mike Lee, who would make an extraordinary justice — and making an explicit commitment to nominate only from that list. This commitment matters, and it provides a serious reason for voters to choose to support Trump.

Second, Obamacare. The failed healthcare law is hurting millions of Americans. If Republicans hold Congress, leadership has committed to passing legislation repealing Obamacare. Clinton, we know beyond a shadow of doubt, would veto that legislation. Trump has said he would sign it.

Third, energy. Clinton would continue the Obama administration’s war on coal and relentless efforts to crush the oil and gas industry. Trump has said he will reduce regulations and allow the blossoming American energy renaissance to create millions of new high-paying jobs.

Fourth, immigration. Clinton would continue and even expand President Obama’s lawless executive amnesty. Trump has promised that he would revoke those illegal executive orders.

Fifth, national security. Clinton would continue the Obama administration’s willful blindness to radical Islamic terrorism. She would continue importing Middle Eastern refugees whom the FBI cannot vet to make sure they are not terrorists. Trump has promised to stop the deluge of unvetted refugees.

Sixth, Internet freedom. Clinton supports Obama’s plan to hand over control of the Internet to an international community of stakeholders, including Russia, China, and Iran. Just this week, Trump came out strongly against that plan, and in support of free speech online.

These are six vital issues where the candidates’ positions present a clear choice for the American people.

If Clinton wins, we know — with 100% certainty — that she would deliver on her left-wing promises, with devastating results for our country.

My conscience tells me I must do whatever I can to stop that.

We also have seen, over the past few weeks and months, a Trump campaign focusing more and more on freedom — including emphasizing school choice and the power of economic growth to lift African-Americans and Hispanics to prosperity.

Finally, after eight years of a lawless Obama administration, targeting and persecuting those disfavored by the administration, fidelity to the rule of law has never been more important.

The Supreme Court will be critical in preserving the rule of law. And, if the next administration fails to honor the Constitution and Bill of Rights, then I hope that Republicans and Democrats will stand united in protecting our fundamental liberties.

Our country is in crisis. Hillary Clinton is manifestly unfit to be president, and her policies would harm millions of Americans. And Donald Trump is the only thing standing in her way.

A year ago, I pledged to endorse the Republican nominee, and I am honoring that commitment. And if you don’t want to see a Hillary Clinton presidency, I encourage you to vote for him.


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## RabzonKhan

Let’s have some fun! 







Dumb, dumb, dumb!


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## Nilgiri

You want to watch something truly funny (and disturbing) without the need for MSM interjection? Watch this:






The look on her face hahaha. I love it. Don't need to be a top tier intelligence agent or mafia guy to read her body language and outright lies without any effort at all.

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## ptldM3

RabzonKhan said:


> First that image was posted on June 15, 2016 by a well-known racist (@FishBoneHead1) on Twitter , the twitter has banned the scumbag now.
> 
> Then on June 22, 2016 the same image was posted on a racist forum.
> 
> And then the same image was posted on Trumps twitter account.
> 
> *Now does that tell you something, think about it?*




Yes it does, it tells me Hilary supporters are pathetic and will use the race card at every chance even if it means making things up You people scream, racist...racist....racist! When there is nothing there yet ignore Hilary calling a KKK leader a great man, as well as ignore her immigration policies of the 90s, the same immigration policies that are "racist".

90% of attacks on trump are factitious hysteria. Notice his policies are rarely attacked because you got nothing better from Clinton. I quess when you got nothing you will stoop to new lows by spreading factitious hysteria that only the gullible and terribly misinformation would fall for and by terribly misinformed I mean too stupid or lazy to seek out the truth.


First of all the origin of a lot of famous internet images such as meme are not known so I take your claim with a truck load of salt. Moreover, there is no chance that you know where the image was posted and in the order that the image was posted. It's ludicrous that you even make such a claim.

*There are probably millions of social websites in every language, so how do you know the image was not reposted a thousand times on different websites before Trump posted it?*  let's assume you are correct with your claim (which you arnt) so does it mean that everyone that posted that image is a racist? Think about it in an objective manner....

Your argument is petty and elementary, if I share the image, according to you I must be racist, even though the image has zero to do with race even if it was supposedly first posted by a racist. By that token everyone that went to Disney land is a racist because Walt Disney was a racist. All children that watch Walt Disney movies must be racist 

Hitler drove a Mercedes, gosh it must mean all Mercedes owners are racist....do you see how stupid your claim is?


Like I said the Hilary supporters are like Wiley mammoths moaning and screaming "racist"! Pepe the frog meme....the "it feels good" meme is now "racist" according to Hilary and her supporters because it was used by Trump  words can't describe the shear desperation.

Funny how Hilary supporters ignor the fact that Hilary called a former KKK leader a "great man" but scream Trump is racist while making fools out of themselves.



Nilgiri said:


> You want to watch something truly funny (and disturbing) without the need for MSM interjection? Watch this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The look on her face hahaha. I love it. Don't need to be a top tier intelligence agent or mafia guy to read her body language and outright lies without any effort at all.




She lies even when there is no reason or anything to gain. Look at her sniper story claim she made after she landed in Bostia then look at the video of what actually happened, I think she also has a case of 'shit for brains' because if you're going to make such a lie atlast do not lie when there is video footage to debunk your claim. She also lied about who she was named after.

She even flip flops and then when called out on it she says she has always had the same view, like gay marriage, many times she said she was against it (on camera) and when the movement became popular she was suddenly pro gay marriage but when questioned about her changing her stance she gets angry and claims she was alway pro gay marriage (must be a reptilian that morphed into her body and gave all those interviews about being against gay marriage).

Same with building a wall and strong immigration, in the 1990s she had the same views as Trump but since uneducated shit for brain liberals equate border security with racism she all of the sudden jumps on the bandwagon.

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## Nilgiri

Need to get as many leftie liberals against Hillary as possible to sponge away as many votes as possible from the BSA.

Heres one of them:


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## T-72M1



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## RabzonKhan

Benghazi witch-hunt!








After years of repeated Republican conspiracy theories that Secretary Hillary Clinton or others ordered the U.S. military to stand down in Benghazi or otherwise prevented a military response that could have saved American lives, Rep. Trey Gowdy, the Chairman of the House Select Committee on Benghazi, finally conceded in an interview on FOX News that the military could not have gotten to Benghazi in time to save the lives of the four Americans killed that night:

“Whether or not they could have gotten there in time, I don’t think there is any issue with respect to that—they couldn’t.”

His admission comes after Democrats released statements from his Chief Counsel earlier this week from closed-door interviews conducted by the Select Committee with Defense Secretary Panetta and his Chief of Staff, Jeremy Bash.

In response, Benghazi Select Committee Ranking Member Elijah E. Cummings, House Armed Services Ranking Member Adam Smith, and House Intelligence Ranking Member Adam Schiff issued the following statements:

*“Chairman Gowdy has finally admitted what we have all known for years: the central Republican allegation that the military was told to withhold assets that could have saved lives in Benghazi for political reasons is wrong,”* said Ranking Member Cummings. “Based on the Chairman’s admission today, I call on the Select Committee to stop harassing the Pentagon with baseless demands, release the transcripts of our witness interviews, and stop wasting millions of taxpayer dollars dragging out the investigation closer and closer to the election.”

*“Now even Chairman Gowdy is agreeing with his Chief Counsel’s statements, which badly undermine the political case the Benghazi Committee has been trying to make against Secretary Clinton,” said Ranking Member Smith. “When are we going to stop interfering with the Defense Department’s operations and spending taxpayer money for this charade?”*

“For months, Republicans on the Benghazi Select Committee have suggested that shocking, new details will upend our knowledge of the tragic attack in Benghazi – from gun running, to stand-down orders, to top level interference with the rescue attempt,” said Ranking Member Schiff. “Now, Chairman Gowdy himself has been forced to admit that one of the most pernicious of those theories – that additional military assistance could have gotten there in time to prevent the deaths of those four Americans – has no basis in fact. The Majority, which will not share its draft report with the Minority, must see that its work has already been discredited by its partisan, inconsistent and often incoherent work-product. It should finally bring the committee's work to a close, and end the political charade once and for all.”

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## RabzonKhan

A glimpse of the future, imagine how worse it will be if the madman becomes the President. And that’s why I support Hillary, even with all her shortcomings, she is far better than the madman.



*Anti-Muslim attacks up 78%

Rise in violence linked to Donald Trump's rhetoric
*
Hate crimes against American Muslims have soared to their highest levels since the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, according to data compiled by researchers, an increase apparently fueled by terrorist attacks in the United States and abroad and by divisive language on the campaign trail. The trend has alarmed hate crime scholars and law-enforcement officials, who have documented hundreds of attacks — including arsons at mosques, assaults, shootings and threats of violence — since the beginning of 2015. While the most current hate crime statistics from the FBI are not expected until November, new data from researchers at California State University found that hate crimes against American Muslims were up 78 percent over the course of 2015. Attacks on those perceived as Arab rose even more sharply. Police and media reports in recent months have indicated a continued flow of attacks, often against victims wearing traditional Muslim garb or seen as Middle Eastern.

*Some scholars believe that the violent backlash against American Muslims is driven not only by the string of terrorist attacks in Europe and the United States that began early last year, but also by the political vitriol from candidates like Donald Trump, who has called for a ban on immigration by Muslims and a national registry of Muslims in the United States. "We're seeing these stereotypes and derogative statements become part of the political discourse," said Brian Levin, director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at the San Bernardino campus. "The bottom line is we're talking about a significant increase in these types of hate crimes." He said the frequency of anti-Muslim violence appeared to have increased immediately after some of Trump's most incendiary comments.*

The latest major episode of anti-Muslim violence came last weekend, when an arsonist on a motorcycle started a fire that engulfed the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce, Fla., where Omar Mateen — the gunman in the June massacre at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando — had sometimes prayed.

Police, who called the attack a tragedy for the community, arrested a man who had criticized Islam in social media postings. The arson, along with an earlier assault on a congregant outside the mosque and other episodes there, have left worshippers scared, said Mohammed Malik, 43, a businessman who has attended the mosque for nearly a decade. "There is a lot of negative rhetoric," he said. "The negative rhetoric is causing the hate, and in turn the hate is causing the violent acts." The new study from Levin's nonpartisan group, based on official police reports in 20 states, estimated that there were about 260 hate crimes against Muslims nationwide in 2015. That was the most since the record 481 documented hate crimes against Muslims in 2001, when the Sept. 11 attacks set off waves of crimes targeting Muslims and Middle Easterners, Levin said. The huge increase last year was also the biggest annual rise since 2001, he said. The rise came even as hate crimes against almost all other groups — including blacks, Hispanics, Jews, gays and whites — either declined or increased only slightly, his study found. One exception was hate crimes against transgender people, which rose about 40 percent. An advance copy of the study was provided to The New York Times. 

*The statistics almost certainly understate the extent of the problem, researchers say, because victims are often reluctant to report attacks for fear of inflaming community tensions, and because it is sometimes difficult for investigators to establish that religious, ethnic or racial hatred was a cause. In the killing last year of three Muslim students in Chapel Hill, N.C., for instance, authorities did not bring hate crime charges against a neighbor who is charged with murdering them, despite calls from Muslims who said there were religious overtones to the violence. Police said that a parking dispute, not bigotry, may have led to the killings.* 

Sometimes, the evidence is more clear-cut. "I hate ISLAM!" a former Marine named Ted Hakey Jr. wrote to a friend on Facebook after November's terrorist attacks in Paris. Hours later, in a drunken rampage, he fired a high-powered rifle four times into the mosque next door to his Connecticut home. *Link*


@Arsalan @anon45 @Anubis @Desertfalcon @F-22Raptor @gambit @LA se Karachi @Moonlight @Mugwop @saadee @Syed.Ali.Haider @Taygibay @XenoEnsi-14

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## Moonlight

RabzonKhan said:


> A glimpse of the future, imagine how worse it will be if the madman becomes the President. And that’s why I support Hillary, even with all her shortcomings, she is far better than the madman.
> 
> 
> 
> *Anti-Muslim attacks up 78%
> 
> Rise in violence linked to Donald Trump's rhetoric
> *
> Hate crimes against American Muslims have soared to their highest levels since the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, according to data compiled by researchers, an increase apparently fueled by terrorist attacks in the United States and abroad and by divisive language on the campaign trail. The trend has alarmed hate crime scholars and law-enforcement officials, who have documented hundreds of attacks — including arsons at mosques, assaults, shootings and threats of violence — since the beginning of 2015. While the most current hate crime statistics from the FBI are not expected until November, new data from researchers at California State University found that hate crimes against American Muslims were up 78 percent over the course of 2015. Attacks on those perceived as Arab rose even more sharply. Police and media reports in recent months have indicated a continued flow of attacks, often against victims wearing traditional Muslim garb or seen as Middle Eastern.
> 
> *Some scholars believe that the violent backlash against American Muslims is driven not only by the string of terrorist attacks in Europe and the United States that began early last year, but also by the political vitriol from candidates like Donald Trump, who has called for a ban on immigration by Muslims and a national registry of Muslims in the United States. "We're seeing these stereotypes and derogative statements become part of the political discourse," said Brian Levin, director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at the San Bernardino campus. "The bottom line is we're talking about a significant increase in these types of hate crimes." He said the frequency of anti-Muslim violence appeared to have increased immediately after some of Trump's most incendiary comments.*
> 
> The latest major episode of anti-Muslim violence came last weekend, when an arsonist on a motorcycle started a fire that engulfed the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce, Fla., where Omar Mateen — the gunman in the June massacre at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando — had sometimes prayed.
> 
> Police, who called the attack a tragedy for the community, arrested a man who had criticized Islam in social media postings. The arson, along with an earlier assault on a congregant outside the mosque and other episodes there, have left worshippers scared, said Mohammed Malik, 43, a businessman who has attended the mosque for nearly a decade. "There is a lot of negative rhetoric," he said. "The negative rhetoric is causing the hate, and in turn the hate is causing the violent acts." The new study from Levin's nonpartisan group, based on official police reports in 20 states, estimated that there were about 260 hate crimes against Muslims nationwide in 2015. That was the most since the record 481 documented hate crimes against Muslims in 2001, when the Sept. 11 attacks set off waves of crimes targeting Muslims and Middle Easterners, Levin said. The huge increase last year was also the biggest annual rise since 2001, he said. The rise came even as hate crimes against almost all other groups — including blacks, Hispanics, Jews, gays and whites — either declined or increased only slightly, his study found. One exception was hate crimes against transgender people, which rose about 40 percent. An advance copy of the study was provided to The New York Times.
> 
> *The statistics almost certainly understate the extent of the problem, researchers say, because victims are often reluctant to report attacks for fear of inflaming community tensions, and because it is sometimes difficult for investigators to establish that religious, ethnic or racial hatred was a cause. In the killing last year of three Muslim students in Chapel Hill, N.C., for instance, authorities did not bring hate crime charges against a neighbor who is charged with murdering them, despite calls from Muslims who said there were religious overtones to the violence. Police said that a parking dispute, not bigotry, may have led to the killings.*
> 
> Sometimes, the evidence is more clear-cut. "I hate ISLAM!" a former Marine named Ted Hakey Jr. wrote to a friend on Facebook after November's terrorist attacks in Paris. Hours later, in a drunken rampage, he fired a high-powered rifle four times into the mosque next door to his Connecticut home. *Link*
> 
> 
> @Arsalan @anon45 @Anubis @Desertfalcon @F-22Raptor @gambit @LA se Karachi @Moonlight @Mugwop @saadee @Syed.Ali.Haider @Taygibay @XenoEnsi-14



Trump is a bad choice for Muslim living in USA and Hillary is a bad choice for Muslim all around the world. This lady loves wars and she supported wars in past.
Election 2016; people will avoid talking about in future.

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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


>


lmao, love the political cartoons and memes this season, keep posting.





======================================================

speaking of, anyone familiar with memetics ? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme

The meme, analogous to a gene, was conceived as a "unit of culture" (an idea, belief, pattern of behaviour, etc.) which is "hosted" in the minds of one or more individuals, and which can reproduce itself, thereby jumping from mind to mind. Thus what would otherwise be regarded as one individual influencing another to adopt a belief is seen as an idea-replicator reproducing itself in a new host. As with genetics, particularly under a Dawkinsian interpretation, a meme's success may be due to its contribution to the effectiveness of its host.

A field of study called memetics[5] arose in the 1990s to explore the concepts and transmission of memes in terms of an evolutionary model. Criticism from a variety of fronts has challenged the notion that academic study can examine memes empirically. However, developments in neuroimaging may make empirical study possible.[6] Some commentators in the social sciences question the idea that one can meaningfully categorize culture in terms of discrete units.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics

*Memetics* is the theory of mental content based on an analogy with Darwinian evolution, originating from the popularization of Richard Dawkins' 1976 book _The Selfish Gene._[1] Proponents describe memetics as an approach to evolutionary models of cultural information transfer.











^I find this guy's commentary interesting, he'll be on the 'alt-right'/WN red ice radio program talking memetics, should be interesting.






@Nilgiri


----------



## RabzonKhan

Moonlight said:


> Trump is a bad choice for Muslim living in USA and Hillary is a bad choice for Muslim all around the world. This lady loves wars and she supported wars in past.
> Election 2016; people will avoid talking about in future.


Disagree with you, in an interview, Trump said, “I think Islam hates us.”, (Dog whistle, code words) in other words, he is saying all Muslims hate the US, he has also said he’ll use nuclear weapons against the ISIS, now imagine that, to kill one terrorist he will not hesitate to kill thousands of innocent Muslims and he even has a problem with the Quran.

If he becomes the President, it will be a wonderful day for the terrorist and the US haters, his outrageous sweeping statements will play right into the hands of those who hate us and will isolate us in the Muslim world and that of course will benefit his good friend, Putin.


----------



## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> Disagree with you, in an interview, Trump said, “I think Islam hates us.”, (Dog whistle, code words) in other words, he is saying all Muslims hate the US, he has also said he’ll use nuclear weapons against the ISIS, now imagine that, to kill one terrorist he will not hesitate to kill thousands of innocent Muslims and he even has a problem with the Quran.
> 
> If he becomes the President, it will be a wonderful day for the terrorist and the US haters, his outrageous sweeping statements will play right into the hands of those who hate us and will isolate us in the Muslim world and that of course will benefit his good friend, Putin.


so what's your point, nobody should criticize any aspect of Islam because it'll make the jihadis angry ? Trump is not PC but he's raised some valid points, spl from a national security perspective for the US.

"he has also said he’ll use nuclear weapons against the ISIS" 


"kill thousands of innocent Muslims...."


"If he becomes the President, it will be a wonderful day for the terrorist "


"benefit his good friend, Putin."
nothing wrong with proposing a _détente with Russia, _the world will sleep a lot better if the 2 biggest nuclear powers can find common ground, get along, and aren't involved in a proxy war in the middle east.




crooked hillary clinton = more jihad, terror, chaos and proxy war in the middle east, Trump = common sense pragmatism, trade deals, don't support jihad.

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Editorial
> *Hillary Clinton would make a sober, smart and pragmatic president.*



Right









​

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## Desert Fox

*How Trump would stimulate the U.S. economy*​




Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump. (Evan Vucci/Associated Press)​

By Peter Navarro and Wilbur Ross September 23
_Peter Navarro is a business professor at UC-Irvine. Wilbur Ross is an international private equity investor. Both are senior policy advisers to the Trump campaign_.

From 1947 to 2001, the U.S. gross domestic product grew at an annual, inflation-adjusted rate of 3.5 percent. Since 2002, average real GDP growth has plummeted to 1.9 percent annually. This fall from strong growth is the taproot of the nation’s current woes.

Despite a recent jump, real median household income remains below its 1999 peak. Some 43 million Americans suffer in poverty. The headline 4.9 percent unemployment rate sounds good — until you factor in missing and discouraged workers. Astonishingly — and disgracefully — nearly one in six men ages 18 to 34 are in jail or out of work.

*Hillary Clinton’s economic plan would not improve this anemic growth or heal other economic ills. It would raise taxes, increase regulation, and impose further restrictions on fossil fuels that would significantly raise energy and electricity costs. Clinton would also perpetuate trade policies she helped craft that have led to chronic and debilitating trade deficits. All this points in the wrong direction. *

Even Clinton’s centerpiece stimulus plan is growth-inhibiting. It would tax businesses to fund a highly leveraged national infrastructure bank. This approach would shift funds from the more efficient private sector to a less efficient government bureaucracy and introduce high-risk, subprime lending to the government.

*Trump asks supporters if they understand what he says about NAFTA*
Play Video1:06
At a rally in Toledo, Sept. 21, Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump asked his supporters if they understood what he said after criticizing the North American Free Trade Agreement. (The Washington Post)
In sharp contrast, Donald Trump’s plan is growth-inducing. It would cut taxes, reduce regulations, remove restrictions on energy development and eliminate our debilitating trade deficit. As growth rapidly accelerated, Trumpnomics would generate millions of additional jobs and trillions of dollars in additional income and tax revenue.

Every nation’s GDP is driven by four components: consumption, government spending, investment and net exports (what we sell vs. what we buy). The United States’ structural economic problems are primarily focused on the investment and net exports growth drivers and associated “offshoring drag” and “trade deficit drag.”

For example, when Ford offshores new production facilities to Mexico, that both boosts the Mexican economy and reduces investment in this country, subtracting from future economic growth. That’s offshoring drag.

_[Trump is right about violent crime: It’s on the rise in major cities]_

U.S. factories are being “pushed” offshore because of the high corporate tax rate and burdensome regulatory environment. They are “pulled” offshore by unfair trade practices such as undervalued currencies and unequal tax treatment by the World Trade Organization.

Trump’s plan would realign corporate incentives so that it would be more profitable to invest in the United States. Cutting the high corporate tax rate, reducing unnecessary regulation and cracking down on trade cheating would make U.S. corporations competitive on domestic soil.

The Trump plan would also eliminate “trade deficit drag.” Net exports are currently running at a negative $500 billion annually, a direct subtraction from growth.

*Trump rejects 'globalism' in economic speech*
Play Video1:14
Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump said during a speech on the economy on Sept. 15 in New York that policies of "globalism" have resulted in job losses in the U.S. (Peter Stevenson/The Washington Post)
Trump would eliminate the trade deficit not just by cracking down on currency manipulation, intellectual property theft and other mercantilist cheating. He would also negotiate new deals and renegotiate bad deals, such as NAFTA, according to the Trump trade doctrine: Any deal must increase growth, reduce the trade deficit and strengthen the manufacturing base.

Opinions newsletter

Thought-provoking opinions and commentary, in your inbox daily.



As a poster child of how not to negotiate, there is Clinton’s 2012 South Korea deal. As secretary of state, she promised us 70,000 new jobs. Instead, we have lost 75,000 jobs, and our Korean trade deficit has nearly doubled.

Beyond trade, America’s Gulliver economy is also being tied down by thousands of Lilliputian regulations. The Office of Management and Budget and the Heritage Foundation estimate a cost burden approaching $2 trillion annually. The Competitive Enterprise Institute calculates an annual “hidden tax” of “nearly $15,000 per U.S. household.” Despite these exorbitant costs, the Obama administration issued more than 3,300 final rules and regulations in 2015, about a thousand more than the prior year.

Trump promises a moratorium on all new regulations not compelled by Congress or public safety and an urgent agency-level regulatory review. He would also lift restrictions on U.S. energy production and streamline permitting for infrastructure projects. This would lower energy costs, reduce our imports and spur growth.

As our economy grows faster and millions of Americans go back to work, tax revenue would rise, safety net payments would fall and the Trump plan would travel along a fiscally responsible path that achieves revenue neutrality. We conservatively estimate a more than $2 trillion revenue boost from Trump’s trade, regulatory and energy reforms alone — a significant offset to the revenue reductions from his tax cuts.

Trump’s detractors insist that the United States’ days of rapid growth are over. Such defeatism defies the American spirit and ignores the bad tax, trade, regulatory and energy policies now shackling the U.S. economy. It’s time that a president set this nation’s economy free.

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## ptldM3

RabzonKhan said:


> A glimpse of the future, imagine how worse it will be if the madman becomes the President. And that’s why I support Hillary, even with all her shortcomings, she is far better than the madman.
> 
> 
> 
> *Anti-Muslim attacks up 78%
> 
> Rise in violence linked to Donald Trump's rhetoric
> *
> Hate crimes against American Muslims have soared to their highest levels since the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, according to data compiled by researchers, an increase apparently fueled by terrorist attacks in the United States and abroad and by divisive language on the campaign trail. The trend has alarmed hate crime scholars and law-enforcement officials, who have documented hundreds of attacks — including arsons at mosques, assaults, shootings and threats of violence — since the beginning of 2015. While the most current hate crime statistics from the FBI are not expected until November, new data from researchers at California State University found that hate crimes against American Muslims were up 78 percent over the course of 2015. Attacks on those perceived as Arab rose even more sharply. Police and media reports in recent months have indicated a continued flow of attacks, often against victims wearing traditional Muslim garb or seen as Middle Eastern.
> 
> *Some scholars believe that the violent backlash against American Muslims is driven not only by the string of terrorist attacks in Europe and the United States that began early last year, but also by the political vitriol from candidates like Donald Trump, who has called for a ban on immigration by Muslims and a national registry of Muslims in the United States. "We're seeing these stereotypes and derogative statements become part of the political discourse," said Brian Levin, director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at the San Bernardino campus. "The bottom line is we're talking about a significant increase in these types of hate crimes." He said the frequency of anti-Muslim violence appeared to have increased immediately after some of Trump's most incendiary comments.*
> 
> The latest major episode of anti-Muslim violence came last weekend, when an arsonist on a motorcycle started a fire that engulfed the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce, Fla., where Omar Mateen — the gunman in the June massacre at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando — had sometimes prayed.
> 
> Police, who called the attack a tragedy for the community, arrested a man who had criticized Islam in social media postings. The arson, along with an earlier assault on a congregant outside the mosque and other episodes there, have left worshippers scared, said Mohammed Malik, 43, a businessman who has attended the mosque for nearly a decade. "There is a lot of negative rhetoric," he said. "The negative rhetoric is causing the hate, and in turn the hate is causing the violent acts." The new study from Levin's nonpartisan group, based on official police reports in 20 states, estimated that there were about 260 hate crimes against Muslims nationwide in 2015. That was the most since the record 481 documented hate crimes against Muslims in 2001, when the Sept. 11 attacks set off waves of crimes targeting Muslims and Middle Easterners, Levin said. The huge increase last year was also the biggest annual rise since 2001, he said. The rise came even as hate crimes against almost all other groups — including blacks, Hispanics, Jews, gays and whites — either declined or increased only slightly, his study found. One exception was hate crimes against transgender people, which rose about 40 percent. An advance copy of the study was provided to The New York Times.
> 
> *The statistics almost certainly understate the extent of the problem, researchers say, because victims are often reluctant to report attacks for fear of inflaming community tensions, and because it is sometimes difficult for investigators to establish that religious, ethnic or racial hatred was a cause. In the killing last year of three Muslim students in Chapel Hill, N.C., for instance, authorities did not bring hate crime charges against a neighbor who is charged with murdering them, despite calls from Muslims who said there were religious overtones to the violence. Police said that a parking dispute, not bigotry, may have led to the killings.*
> 
> Sometimes, the evidence is more clear-cut. "I hate ISLAM!" a former Marine named Ted Hakey Jr. wrote to a friend on Facebook after November's terrorist attacks in Paris. Hours later, in a drunken rampage, he fired a high-powered rifle four times into the mosque next door to his Connecticut home. *Link*
> 
> 
> @Arsalan @anon45 @Anubis @Desertfalcon @F-22Raptor @gambit @LA se Karachi @Moonlight @Mugwop @saadee @Syed.Ali.Haider @Taygibay @XenoEnsi-14





Yep it's all Trumps fault. Everything is his fault. It's sad how desperate Hilary supporters are getting. The lows you will stoop to is amazing.

Attacks on Muslims in Europe are Trumps fault to?....yea...ah, do you actually genuinely believe that?



You think it might have something to do with Muslims beheading priests in churches as well as rugular people in the streets? While screaming Alllahhhh akbaaarrrrr!!! Maybe it might have something to do with gunning down cartoonists, maybe shooting at people in concerts? Perhaps it ls because Muslims have placed explosives at airports and concerts, subways and marathons. Maybe blowing up airliners over Egypt? Could be be truck raming pedestrians?


No it can't be anything of those things which cause anti Muslim sentiment, must be Trump 



Desert Fox said:


> Right
> 
> View attachment 337734
> 
> View attachment 337732
> ​





You are forgetting that she threatened to obliterate Iran and suggested going to war over cyber attacks, basically saying she would go to war with Russia and China.

But, according to the Hilary liberals, Trump is the "madman"

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## T-72M1



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## T-72M1



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## anon45

Remember to watch the debates! They will very likely define who will be next president of the United States of America!

The first one will be tomorrow! It will be from 6pm to 7:30 pm pt and will likely be the most watched debate in history.

No commercials allowed, and the companies are probably looking on and crying for it. 

http://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2016-debate-schedule/2016-presidential-debate-schedule/

Here is a resource to see any and all presidential debates since the 1960's! Even sorted by specific issues, you can see how America has evolved (or not!) on the topics.
https://www.watchthedebates.org/


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## T-72M1



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## Nilgiri

T-72M1 said:


>



Love how he made "horrible" sound a bit like "whor-a-ble"....fits perfectly in the context

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## T-72M1

I was a Democrat all my life. I came to Washington to serve President John Kennedy and Attorney General Robert Kennedy. When the president was murdered and his brother struck off on his own, I joined his Senate campaign and staff as his legislative assistant and speechwriter, until his presidential campaign ended with his own assassination. I ran on a (losing) Democratic ticket in the New York state elections of 1970. When I was working to enact my own program of police reform in the 1980s and 1990s, then-Governor Bill Clinton was chairman of my National Committee for the Police Corps.

This year, I will vote to elect Donald Trump as president of the United States.

So profound a change, and a decent respect for old friendships, requires me to deliver a public accounting for this decision.

Here it is. John and Robert Kennedy devoted their greatest commitments and energies to the prevention of war and the preservation of peace. To them that was not an abstract formula but the necessary foundation of human life. But today’s Democrats have become the Party of War: a home for arms merchants, mercenaries, academic war planners, lobbyists for every foreign intervention, promoters of color revolutions, failed generals, exploiters of the natural resources of corrupt governments. We have American military bases in 80 countries, and there are now American military personnel on the ground in about 130 countries, a remarkable achievement since there are only 192 recognized countries. Generals and admirals announce our national policies. Theater commanders are our principal ambassadors. Our first answer to trouble or opposition of any kind seems always to be a military movement or action.

Nor has the Democratic Party candidate for president this year, Hillary Clinton, sought peace. Instead she has pushed America into successive invasions, successive efforts at “regime change.” She has sought to prevent Americans from seeking friendship or cooperation with President Vladimir Putin of Russia by characterizing him as “another Hitler.” She proclaims herself ready to invade Syria immediately after taking the oath of office. Her shadow War Cabinet brims with the architects of war and disaster for the past decades, the neocons who led us to our present pass, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Yemen, in Ukraine, unrepentant of all past errors, ready to resume it all with fresh trillions and fresh blood. And the Democrats she leads seem intent on worsening relations with Russia, for example by sending American warships into the Black Sea, or by introducing nuclear weapons ever closer to Russia itself.

In fact, in all the years of the so-called War on Terror, only one potential American president has had the intelligence, the vision, the sheer sanity to see that America cannot fight the entire world at once; who sees that America’s natural and necessary allies in this fight must include the advanced and civilized nations that are most exposed and experienced in their own terror wars, and have the requisite military power and willingness to use it. Only one American candidate has pointed out how senseless it is to seek confrontation with Russia and China, at the same time that we are trying to suppress the very jihadist movements that they also are attacking.

That candidate is Donald Trump. Throughout this campaign, he has said that as president, he would quickly sit down with President Putin and seek relaxation of tensions between our nations, and possible collaboration in the fight against terrorists. On this ground alone, he marks himself as greatly superior to all his competitors, earlier in the primaries and now in the general election.

Read the rest here: http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ratic-party-speechwriter-214270#ixzz4LMGdQoNA

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## F-22Raptor

First debate is tonight.


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## RabzonKhan

*Bernie Sanders Gives Millennials 4 Big Reasons Why They Should Vote For Hillary Clinton*

By Jason Easley on Sun, Sep 25th, 2016

Sen. Bernie Sanders made the choice for millennial voters by listing four important reasons why younger Americans should support Hillary Clinton.







Transcript via Face The Nation:

DICKERSON: Welcome back to the FACE THE NATION. We’re here with former presidential candidate Senator Bernie Sanders.

Senator, I want to start with millennial voters. They represent now about 30 percent of the voting-age population. That’s about the size of baby boomers. That was a group you were very strong with. Hillary Clinton is having trouble with that group of voters. Why is that do you think?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Well, I’m not sure, but I think the antidote is that she has got to make it clear to not only the millennials but every American the difference that she has,* not just on personality issues, which is what the media focuses on, but the real issues impacting the middle class and working families of this country.*

*When you talk about the economy, Donald Trump wants to give hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to the wealthiest people in this country. Clinton understands that at a time of massive income and wealth inequality, the people on top are going to have to start paying their fair share of taxes.*

*John, young people are very concerned, appropriately so, about the crisis regarding climate change. Clinton has a pretty strong program which says we have got to transform our energy system away from fossil fuel to energy efficiency and sustainable energies, like wind and solar. You know what Donald Trump’s position is on climate change? He thinks it’s a hoax. And that is really frightening for the future of this planet.*

One more really important issue that I think has got to be talked about a whole lot, Clinton has said that she will appoint Supreme Court justices, nominate Supreme Court justices who will overturn this disastrous Citizens United Supreme Court decision which allows people like Sheldon Adelson last week to put $45 million into the political process to buy elections. Billionaires should not be buying elections. Clinton wants to stop that. Trump will appoint more conservatives to the Supreme Court.

*In terms of the issue of bigotry, and the younger people are more than any generation I think, John, in American history, are sick and tired of discrimination and racism. On that issue, I think the points of view of Clinton and Trump are pretty clear. Trump is running his campaign, the cornerstone of his campaign is bigotry, is dividing us up. That is certainly very different from what Clinton believes.*

So I think if she focuses on the issues, she will do just — really well with the American people and certainly with younger people.

*Sanders gave four important reasons why millennials should support Hillary Clinton, the economy, the environment, Citizens United, and her stance against discrimination and racism. I would add Clinton’s free college tuition plan, and her plan to deal with student loan debt as two other very large reasons.* Plus, Clinton’s plan on healthcare would make it easier and cheaper to get coverage, while Trump intends to throw Americans under age 25 off of their parents’ health insurance.

There is no contest on the issues for younger voters, and once they see their options side by side on the debate stage, the choice should be an easy one for millennial voters. Sen. Sanders has been true to his word, and his doing his part to help get Clinton elected, but it will be up to the candidate herself to close the deal.





*Tonight's presidential debate: start time, schedule, and streaming*

By Colin Lecher 9/26/2016

Tonight's presidential debate face-off between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton is expected to be not only one of the most-watched debates in history, but a major television event in its own right. The event will, of course, be a major presence on traditional TV — but if you're a cord-cutter, you'll still have plenty of ways to tune in this time around.

The debate kicks off at 9PM EST tonight at Hofstra University, and will run for a commercial-free 90 minutes. Here's a rundown of where to watch.

*Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube*
Several web services cut deals this year with traditional broadcasters to bring the debate online, so you have a range of options in how you want to tune in.

Facebook will be broadcasting ABC News' coverage of the event through Facebook Live, and you can expect to see other organizations making their coverage available there as well.


Twitter has similarly partnered with Bloomberg TV for full coverage of the debates, and will make the stream available at debates.twitter.com.

One more option: YouTube, which will provide live-streaming coverage from multiple news organizations. That list includes NBC News, PBS, Fox News, _The Washington Post_,_Bloomberg_, and Telemundo, according to the service.

(Not quite a live stream, but Snapchat has also promised to follow along with a Live Story.)


*Other streaming options*
If, for some reason, you'd prefer another service, you won't have too hard of a time finding a way to watch. Several news organizations have promised to carry live streams of the debate on their websites. Those sites include _The New York Times_, _The Wall Street Journal, Politico, BuzzFeed, _CNN_, _and_ The Huffington Post_.

*TV options*
Should you choose the traditional TV route, the debate is streaming on all major TV news networks, including NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox, Fox News, MSNBC, Univision, C-SPAN, and CNN.

*Virtual reality*
If you want a more (possibly over-) immersive experience for this debate, NBC has also teamed up with Altspace VR to launch a virtual reality stream of the debate. *Link*


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## F-22Raptor

Some are predicting 100 million viewers tonight. Current record is 80 million in 1980 with Reagan vs Carter.


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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> Bernie Sanders


crazy Bernie is a spent force, during the primaries he was drawing big crowds, not as big as Trump but still in their thousands, 10K+ on occasion. 

stumping for crooked hillary he gets a hundred odd now, nobody likes a sellout. 



F-22Raptor said:


> Some are predicting 100 million viewers tonight. Current record is 80 million in 1980 with Reagan vs Carter.


and tens of millions more globally. 

the total global viewership numbers, including re-runs within 24 hours of the live broadcast to account for people who are inconvenienced by time-zones or other factors and therefore unable to watch it live will probably be a billion lol 

the next two will probably be more interesting

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## Nilgiri

Bernie, the same guy that said this:






What a joke he has become lol.

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## anon45

T-72M1 said:


> crazy Bernie is a spent force, during the primaries he was drawing big crowds, not as big as Trump but still in their thousands, 10K+ on occasion.



Bernie is the example of why big crowds don't mean much when it comes to voting, it denotes enthusiasm to see the candidate, but doesn't mean the other candidate won't have people come out in droves anyways.

Voting happens at the polls, not in a stadium.

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## T-72M1

Nilgiri said:


> Bernie, the same guy that said this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a joke he has become lol.


the mainstream media is a joke and the people there are wise to it:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/195542/americans-trust-mass-media-sinks-new-low.aspx

Also, not sure how accurate this indicator will turn out to be but have you noticed how crooked hillary has virtually zero support online anywhere ? and despite their loathing for Trump, all the further/far left progressives seem to hate her just as much if not more than they do DT. Meanwhile, for the GOP, they're all coming together now, even lyin' Ted, and with him, a lot of the "constitutionalists"






He's close to breaching the blue bastions:
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/26/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-colorado-pennsylvania-polls/

for now I'd say it's looking extremely good for Mr Trump, don't forget there are more wikileaks incoming, Assange is probably saving the best for last. It could even be something as crazy as some steamy Huma and Hillary e-mails etc 

Huma's mum, btw, is a sallafist bitch who propagates FGM 

anywhoo, go Donald !

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## anon45

https://thinkprogress.org/trumps-po...en-women-got-the-vote-a9d772a85a55#.djvjyzz2u

*Trump’s potential SCOTUS appointee thinks America took a wrong turn when women got the vote*
*But let’s keep talking about Hillary’s pneumonia instead.*





Potential future Supreme Court Justice Peter Thiel. CREDIT: AP Photo/J. Scott Applewhite
Peter Thiel, a libertarian billionaire known for funding a lawsuit seeking todestroy the media company behind the website Gawker, is a leading candidate for the Supreme Court in a Trump administration, according to reporting by the Huffington Post’s Ben Walsh and Ryan Grim.

Thiel, according to a source consulted by Walsh and Grim, told friends that Trump will nominate him to the Court if the GOP nominee is elected president. Another source confirms that members of Trump’s “inner circle” consider Thiel a potential justice. Spokespeople for both Trump and Thiel deny these claims.

Though Thiel’s early career resembles that of a potential future justice — he graduated by Stanford Law School and clerked for a federal appeals court judge — Thiel abandoned the practice of law very early to pursue a career in business. Accordingly, he has very few of the qualifications typically held by a judicial nominee and is unlikely to have the same grasp on legal doctrine as a professional lawyer or judge.

Indeed, in 2012, the conservative Federalist Society asked Thiel to deliver its annual Barbara K. Olson Memorial Lecture. It is one of the most prestigious and high-profile platforms offered by the influential legal group — past speakers include former Vice President Dick Cheney, Chief Justice John Roberts, and the late Justice Antonin Scalia. And yet, speaking before a audience of many of the nation’s leading conservative lawyers and judges, Thiel barely discussed legal matters at all, and what he did say betrayed only a passing knowledge of the underlying doctrines.

The bulk of Thiel’s speech outlined his pessimistic belief that economic and technological growth is slowing. He mentioned the law and the Supreme Court only a few times in the speech, and then only briefly. Those brief mentions, however, did suggest that Thiel would make radical changes if he had the power to reinterpret the Constitution.

Thiel blames the alleged slowdown, at least in part, on “mischief that has happened on the legislative, left-wing legal side” which has permitted the rise of “environmentalism” — a statement which suggests that, as a justice, he would be very sympathetic to arguments raised by lawyers active within the Federalist Society, which seek to hobble the federal government’s ability to protect the environment. In an even more drastic departure from widely accepted legal and economic doctrine, Thiel attacked a series of decisions which enabled America to abandon the gold standard, claiming they destroyed money’s “link to something real.”

Thiel’s belief that the gold standard was a good idea is not shared by, well, pretty much anyone who knows anything at all. As Matthew O’Brien explained in the Atlantic,

Economics is often a contentious subject, but economists agree about the gold standard — it is a barbarous relic that belongs in the dustbin of history. As University of Chicago professor Richard Thaler points out, exactly zero economists endorsed the idea in a recent poll. What makes it such an idea non grata? It prevents the central bank from fighting recessions by outsourcing monetary policy decisions to how much gold we have — which, in turn, depends on our trade balance and on how much of the shiny rock we can dig up. When we peg the dollar to gold we have to raise interest rates when gold is scarce, regardless of the state of the economy. This policy inflexibility was the major cause of the Great Depression, as governments were forced to tighten policy at the worst possible moment.
Indeed, as economist Brad DeLong notes, nations began to emerge from the Great Depression at about the same time that they abandoned the gold standard.

So, while Thiel’s views on the law do not appear to be especially well developed, he also appears eager to upend fundamental assumptions that are widely shared by nearly everyone in the fields of law and economics, even though the consensus view is that overturning those assumptions would be catastrophic.

Oh, and there’s one other thing.

In an essay published by the Cato Institute, an influential libertarian think tank, Thiel questioned the very idea that the right to govern flows from the will of the governed. “I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible,” Thiel claimed. He added that he thinks America made a serious wrong turn when it began extending basic human rights to women and poor people.






The moment when it all went wrong, according to Peter Thiel. (CREDIT: AP PHOTO)
“The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be genuinely optimistic about politics,” Thiel claims about the decade that culminated in the single worst economic calamity in American history. “Since 1920,” he adds, “the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of ‘capitalist democracy’ into an oxymoron.”

In fairness, Thiel later attached additional remarks to his Cato essay, where he walked back his attack on women’s suffrage somewhat. “While I don’t think any class of people should be disenfranchised,” Thiel said, “I have little hope that voting will make things better.”

So what are we to make of Trump’s reported flirtation with a Justice Peter Thiel? After the Huffington Post’s piece went live, several journalists dismissed the risk of a Thiel appointment, suggesting that he would face widespread opposition.



Maybe Sarlin and Hayes are right. But here’s the thing, Thiel is hardly treated as an unconfirmable pariah by the American right. To the contrary, the Federalist Society and the Cato Institute are two of the nation’s preeminent conservative organizations. The Federalist Society, in particular, played a major role in helping select President George W. Bush’s judicial appointments. And Trump has said that he will defer to the Federalist Society when he names judges in the past. (Though, in fairness, he’s also said that he would pick Supreme Court nominees from a much more conventional list of judges in the past as well.) If Cato and the Federalist Society are willing to vouch for Thiel, it is far from clear that Republican senators will rebel.

Moreover, Thiel’s views, while out of place among mainstream thinkers, are increasingly common among right intellectuals. Consider his Cato essay, for example. The main thrust of that piece is not that women shouldn’t be allowed to vote, but that democratic values are the enemy of the libertarian society Thiel would prefer to live in. “The great task for libertarians,” according to Thiel, “is to find an escape from politics in all its forms — from the totalitarian and fundamentalist catastrophes to the unthinking demos that guides so-called ‘social democracy.’”

Thiel claims that technology will effectively enable privileged libertarians such as himself to go Galt — among his more speculative ideas is “because the vast reaches of outer space represent a limitless frontier, they also represent a limitless possibility for escape from world politics.” But his general idea that democracy is the enemy is not limited to libertarians who believe they must shoot themselves into space in order to build their billionaires’ paradise.

Consider Randy Barnett, a leading libertarian scholar who rose to prominence after his unsuccessful efforts to convince a majority of the Supreme Court to repeal the Affordable Care Act. In a recent book, Barnett distinguishes between what he calls the “Democratic Constitution,” a constitution that preferences the will of the people, and the “Republican Constitution,” which stands athwart democracy yelling stop. Under Barnett’s Republican Constitution, libertarian boogiemen such as Obamacare, the minimum wage, and the right to join a union are all killed with fire.

The primary difference between Thiel and Barnett is that Thiel appears to believe that libertarians must remove themselves from ordinary politics in order to build their dystopia, while Barnett believes that libertarians can build it right here in the United States of America if only the right people control the Supreme Court.

If Thiel is willing to accept Trump’s nomination to sit on the Supreme Court, that will be a pretty good sign that he’s embraced Barnett’s charge to reshape America in his own image.


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## T-72M1

anon45 said:


> Bernie is the example of why big crowds don't mean much when it comes to voting, it denotes enthusiasm to see the candidate, but doesn't mean the other candidate won't have people come out in droves anyways.
> 
> Voting happens at the polls, not in a stadium.


possibly, we'll find out soon enough but if what's happening online is anything to go by, she's in trouble.. 

and recent real world polls seem to suggest as much.

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## anon45

T-72M1 said:


> possibly, we'll find out soon enough but if what's happening online is anything to go by, she's in trouble..
> 
> and recent real world polls seem to suggest as much.



We'll see, but online communities are notoriously bad for reading the election tea leaves. They tend to be divided into their own echo chambers.


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## T-72M1

anon45 said:


> We'll see, but online communities are notoriously bad for reading the election tea leaves. They tend to be divided into their own echo chambers.


they're still still more organic and trustworthy than the mainstream media, and I'm watching both sides here, TYT, Infowars, and anything in between.

looks like on her side the progressives still hate her while on his side the conservatives are beginning to coalesce, calcify and are forming a tremendous fist, one powerful enough to punch through the wall of lies that is the media.





Trump will probably win, big league, I just hope he doesn't turn out to be a decepti neo-con who starts more wars in the middle east etc.


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## maximuswarrior

Desert Fox said:


> Don't waste time on the troll. Put him on your ignore list like i did.
> 
> 
> The link you posted wasn't for the Natenyahu incident.
> 
> And secondly, Natanyahu hating Trump is another good reason for supporting Trump.



Only a weak person who lacks the courage to present arguments makes use of the ignore list. You are obviously a clown like your cheerleader Trump.

Just wait how Trump destroys the US when he hopefully comes to power. He is a dream come true. The US is on the path of self destruction. Trump's win will be the last nail in the coffin. You'll see. I personally pray Trump wins by a landslide.


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## Hassan_Ishtiaq

maximuswarrior said:


> Only a weak person who lacks the courage to present arguments makes use of the ignore list. You are obviously a clown like your cheerleader Trump.
> 
> Just wait how Trump destroys the US when he hopefully comes to power. He is a dream come true. The US in on the path of self destruction. Trump's win will be the last nail in the coffin. You'll see. I personally pray Trump wins by a landslide.



Bruv, you still up his a$$?? 

Give it a break.


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## maximuswarrior

Hassan_Ishtiaq said:


> Bruv, you still up his a$$??
> 
> Give it a break.



LOL your Trump cheerleader has put me on his ignore list and is proudly telling everyone to do the same. This fool has no answers. I'm done with him.

You need to stop acting like his pimp. LOL If there is anyone up his a$$ it is most likely you.



ptldM3 said:


> Trump the mad man? It is Hilary that is pro war, not Trump. She was in favors of Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Lybia, ect.
> 
> She has threatened to "obliterate" Iran and go to war over cyber attacks, she basically said she would attack Russia and China. Now factor in her strange behavior such as literally barking like a dog and rolling here eyes and bobbling her head back and fourth as if she is heavily drugged on PCP.
> 
> Who is the real man man? You feel safer with a sociopathic warmonger who is heavily drugged up and suffering from dementia?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No he didn't, stop lying, you are redicolous, just like all liberals you are pulling his speeches out of context, most likely you have never even heard his entire speeches, you just recycle what everyone else says.
> 
> Again, he never called all Mexicans rapists, *he was referring to a specific sub group of Illegals *that cross the boarder, in fact he said that he presumed that there are good people that also cross illegally. He was talking about all the criminals and drug runners that cross the US boarder. Do you understand? Probably not, liberal Hilary supporters don't care about facts and have thick skulls. You don't care if you say something that is not true.
> 
> 
> By the way, in the past, Hilary was in support of building a wall to keep illegal Mexicans out and when question about it recently she claims it was a "barrier"
> 
> 
> Also since when was building a wall racist? Are you okay in the head? Many countries have some walls or at the minimum armed border patrol. Mexico has a wall on the souther boarder and they have arrested hundreds of thousands of South American migrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hilary has praised KKK leader Robert Byrd as a "great man"  if this would be Trump the libtards would go crazy.
> 
> You Hilary supporters will label everything as "racist" even Pepe the frog is now a racist symbol according to Hilary. Does it get more pathetic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You want to talk about flip flopping look at Hilary. She was against gay marriage and even said so on camera many times then when gay marriage became popular she changed her position and claimed she was never against gay marriage even though we have video of her claiming otherwise.
> 
> Then she condemns organizations that she took hundreds of thousand of dollars from to push laws. She is very easily bought and manipulated. She is not consistent with anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hilary lied repeatedly about her emails, the FBI and congress busted her. She lied about Bengazi, she even lied about being under sniper fire when she landed in Bostia
> 
> We have video of her landing in Bosnia. She is clearly a sociopath and compulsive liar.



Do you honestly think that whatever Trump is saying is based on truth? Hillary might be crooked and dishonest, but so is Trump. He has earned his entire wealth by cheating people his whole life. Trump is an experienced conman. Trump has gone on record to support the war in Iraq. Today he opposes the war in Iraq which is a lie. He has been caught on tape saying these lies. You have to be an utter fool to deny these facts.

Do you think Trump is any different? Hillary is cunning, but she is also seasoned. Trump is a fool and his rhetoric against Iran, China and others is an open secret. The chances of Trump attacking other nations is much higher than Hillary.

Stop bullshitting man. The whole world heard what Trump said and did during the Republican caucus. Who are you fooling here? His outrageous comments regarding Mexican rapists and the ban against Muslims among so many other ridiculous statements is not a coincidence. This man nurtures a certain hateful ideology that has supported his cause and rise. Without a doubt, many Trump supporters are the lowest form of redneck gutter scum who are racist xenophobes. The whole world knows what goes on at Trump rallies. It is a clown fest.

LOL don't even get me started on the wall. What a ridiculous and stupid idea. Like as if that will stop the Mexicans from entering the US. Like as if the wall will be paid by Mexico. The wall is just an election ploy. Stop getting so serious. It won't even be built. Calm down.

Don't stoop so low. Hillary is many things, but she never praised any KKK member. Trump doesn't know who David Duke is LOL Try denying that.

LOL who said I support Hillary? Stop pulling stuff from you know where. I know she has major flaws. She is cunning, deceiving and full of lies, but who says that Trump is an angel and has all the answers? Stop pretending that Trump is the savior. Trump is a fool who only knows how to entertain the masses with his small hand gestures and inflammatory anti immigrant rhetoric. He has no solutions. Everything he says he denies the next day.

If Hillary is a sociopath and a compulsive liar, Trump is all these things on steroid LOL Stop believing that Trump is a prophet. He is nothing, but an entertaining clown in a three piece suite.

Hell, I hope Trump the clown wins the presidential race. He will make sure that his country goes down the gutter.


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## Hassan_Ishtiaq

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL your Trump cheerleader has put me on his ignore list and is proudly telling everyone to do the same. This fool has no answers. I'm done with him.
> 
> You need to stop acting like his pimp. LOL If there is anyone up his a$$ it is most likely you.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you honestly think that whatever Trump is saying is based on truth? Hillary might be crooked and dishonest, but so is Trump. He has earned his entire wealth by cheating people his whole life. Trump is an experienced conman. Trump has gone on record to support the war in Iraq. Today he opposes the war in Iraq which is a lie. He has been caught on tape saying these lies. You have to be an utter fool to deny these facts.
> 
> Do you think Trump is any different? Hillary is cunning, but she is also seasoned. Trump is a fool and his rhetoric against Iran, China and others is an open secret. The chances of Trump attacking other nations is much higher than Hillary.
> 
> Stop bullshitting man. The whole world heard what Trump said and did during the Republican caucus. Who are you fooling here? His outrageous comments regarding Mexican rapists and the ban against Muslims among so many other ridiculous statements is not a coincidence. This man nurtures a certain hateful ideology that has supported his cause and rise. Without a doubt, many Trump supporters are the lowest form of redneck gutter scum who are racist xenophobes. The whole world knows what goes on at Trump rallies. It is a clown fest.
> 
> LOL don't even get me started on the wall. What a ridiculous and stupid idea. Like as if that will stop the Mexicans from entering the US. Like as if the wall will be paid by Mexico. The wall is just an election ploy. Stop getting so serious. It won't even be built. Calm down.
> 
> Don't stoop so low. Hillary is many things, but she never praised any KKK member. Trump doesn't know who David Duke is LOL Try denying that.
> 
> LOL who said I support Hillary? Stop pulling stuff from you know where. I know she has major flaws. She is cunning, deceiving and full of lies, but who says that Trump is an angel and has all the answers? Stop pretending that Trump is the savior. Trump is a fool who only knows how to entertain the masses with his small hand gestures and inflammatory anti immigrant rhetoric. He has no solutions. Everything he says he denies the next day.
> 
> If Hillary is a sociopath and a compulsive liar, Trump is all these things on steroid LOL Stop believing that Trump is a prophet. He is nothing, but an entertaining clown in a three piece suite.
> 
> Hell, I hope Trump the clown wins the presidential race. He will make sure that his country goes down the gutter.



Lol, did I step on your tail sh!t stain?

Now keep quoting him like you're his b!tch.

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## RabzonKhan

Watching the debate and to my surprise, so far Trump is behaving, he’s addressing Hillary, as Secretary Clinton.

https://twitter.com/i/live/778347749217406976


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## WaLeEdK2

RabzonKhan said:


> Watching the debate and to my surprise, so far Trump is behaving, he’s addressing Hillary, as Secretary Clinton.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/live/778347749217406976



He's interrupted her so much. Hillary looks calm, cool and controlled. She's gonna win this.

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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/780582687086092288


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## RabzonKhan

I’m loving it, Hillary is killing him, he on the defensive and as usual lying.


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## T-123456

Hillary kicked his AZZ,he better give up or go hang himself.

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## T-72M1

T-123456 said:


> Hillary kicked his AZZ,he better give up or go hang himself.


Guess I missed that. Trump stayed on message and was common sense as usual, spl on foreign policy, hillary resorted to her usual "racist, sexist, blabla" nonsense. 

He'll kill her if one of the next two debates is exclusively on foreign policy because her record of supporting terrorists and insisting on regime change in Libya, Syria etc is completely indefensible.


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## RabzonKhan

Hillary won the debate, big time, watch, her poll numbers are going to go up!


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## jaunty

T-123456 said:


> Hillary kicked his AZZ,he better give up or go hang himself.



I think Trump came out trying to look presidential unlike his republican debates which were aimed at right wingers. But after the first 15-20 mins the usual Trump appeared, it had to. Trump will keep his voter base but that's not enough for him to win. He failed to win over undecided voters with this performance. They will still vote for Clinton as the lesser of the two evils.



RabzonKhan said:


> Hillary won the debate, big time, watch, her poll numbers are going to go up!



I do expect to see her poll numbers to go up. She did alright, stayed on course and let Trump self destruct with his usual rhetoric.

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## T-123456

jaunty said:


> I think Trump came out trying to look presidential unlike his republican debates which were aimed at right wingers. But after the first 15-20 mins the usual Trump appeared, it had to. Trump will keep his voter base but that's not enough for him to win. He failed to win over undecided voters with this performance. They will still vote for Clinton as the lesser of the two evils.


He was right about the creation of ISIS though,not that anyone took it serious but he was right.



T-72M1 said:


> He'll kill her if one of the next two debates is exclusively on foreign policy because her record of supporting terrorists and insisting on regime change in Libya, Syria etc is completely indefensible.


He is impulsive,such people always make mistakes and are easy to trap.
He doesnt stand a chance.


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## flamer84

Hillary will win but in the long term the VP matters more because....







Just a flu....


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## T-72M1

T-123456 said:


> He is impulsive,such people always make mistakes and are easy to trap.
> He doesnt stand a chance.


I thought he was very measured in this debate, let's see how it goes.



flamer84 said:


> because....


lmao


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## F-22Raptor

I actually thought Donald started out well, then 30 minutes in he started to implode. Hillary was calm, cool, and collected the entire night.


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## Vassnti

flamer84 said:


> Hillary will win but in the long term the VP matters more because....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a flu....



That's win win Tim is a better candidate than trump or Clinton


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## flamer84

Vassnti said:


> That's win win Tim is a better candidate than trump or Clinton




A dead dog on the side of the road is better than these two.

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## anon45

LOL the way he whined about Hillary's attack ads being "not nice"


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## Sky lord

This is going to be a really close race!

I think Trump started off well but lost the plot in the second half of the debate. 

You can never write him off though, he always rises from the ashes like a Phoenix!


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## T-72M1

anon45 said:


> LOL the way he whined about Hillary's attack ads being "not nice"


part of his holding back fire, in an interview right after he said he's glad he didn't bring up bill clinton's sexual stuff but he was planning to LOL  

debates 2 and 3 will have some serious fireworks, cant wait.


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## WaLeEdK2

Hillary destroyed him. Honestly trump was just rude, obnoxious and flat out disrespectful. He has good points but he doesn't know how to convey his message in a manner that someone will take him seriously. Also he beats around the bush too much. He doesn't get to the point and after a while sounds like he has no idea what he's taking about.

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## LA se Karachi

Nilgiri said:


> Bernie, the same guy that said this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a joke he has become lol.




Trump is a far bigger joke than Sanders will ever be.

He's making an issue of Bill Clinton's past sexual scandals, but he himself was making excuses for him back in 1998 and considered him "a friend" while insulting the women involved:

_"Yet nearly two decades ago, Trump verbally abused the very people he purports to defend—and even suggested Clinton was a “victim.”

During an August 1998 appearance on Fox News, the real estate mogul was asked about then-President Clinton’s multiple alleged extramarital affairs and sexual harassment cases. Trump proceeded to rail against the Clinton accusers.

*“The whole group, it’s truly an unattractive cast of characters—Linda Tripp, Lucianne Goldberg—I mean, this woman—I watch her on television, just vomiting. She is so bad. The whole group—Paula Jones, Lewinsky—it’s just a really unattractive group. *_
*
“And I’m not just talking about physical, but I am also talking about physical.”*
_
*Trump noted, however, that if the accusers were supermodels they* *“would be more pleasant to watch.”*

*He also expressed some sympathy for Bubba: “I don’t necessarily agree with his victims. His victims are terrible. He is really a victim himself. But he put himself in that position.”*

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...linton-is-a-victim-of-unattractive-women.html
_

He is also the same guy who had this to say about Hillary when she was running for President in 2007:

*"Very Talented. Very Smart. She's friend of mine, so I'm a little bit prejudiced. She's a very, very capable person."*

He also recently blamed her for helping create ISIS because of the withdrawal of most US forces from Iraq despite the fact that he was strongly advocating for the same thing back then (even more so than her at the time):





 

He also had the Clintons come to his wedding (and they chose to come):





But they supposedly hate each other and everything that the other stands for. Funny that they were fraternizing with each other for so long before this election cycle. A fake Republican who is a Manhattan billionaire is running against a fake Democrat who is a Westchester multi-millionaire---originally from a rich Republican family in the Chicago suburbs. Yet both candidates claim to represent the working class and the downtrodden. What a joke. Look at their past and their positions on economic issues. They both lie so much, it's not even surprising anymore.



RabzonKhan said:


> *Bernie Sanders Gives Millennials 4 Big Reasons Why They Should Vote For Hillary Clinton*
> 
> By Jason Easley on Sun, Sep 25th, 2016
> 
> Sen. Bernie Sanders made the choice for millennial voters by listing four important reasons why younger Americans should support Hillary Clinton.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Transcript via Face The Nation:
> 
> DICKERSON: Welcome back to the FACE THE NATION. We’re here with former presidential candidate Senator Bernie Sanders.
> 
> Senator, I want to start with millennial voters. They represent now about 30 percent of the voting-age population. That’s about the size of baby boomers. That was a group you were very strong with. Hillary Clinton is having trouble with that group of voters. Why is that do you think?
> 
> SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Well, I’m not sure, but I think the antidote is that she has got to make it clear to not only the millennials but every American the difference that she has,* not just on personality issues, which is what the media focuses on, but the real issues impacting the middle class and working families of this country.*
> 
> *When you talk about the economy, Donald Trump wants to give hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to the wealthiest people in this country. Clinton understands that at a time of massive income and wealth inequality, the people on top are going to have to start paying their fair share of taxes.*
> 
> *John, young people are very concerned, appropriately so, about the crisis regarding climate change. Clinton has a pretty strong program which says we have got to transform our energy system away from fossil fuel to energy efficiency and sustainable energies, like wind and solar. You know what Donald Trump’s position is on climate change? He thinks it’s a hoax. And that is really frightening for the future of this planet.*
> 
> One more really important issue that I think has got to be talked about a whole lot, Clinton has said that she will appoint Supreme Court justices, nominate Supreme Court justices who will overturn this disastrous Citizens United Supreme Court decision which allows people like Sheldon Adelson last week to put $45 million into the political process to buy elections. Billionaires should not be buying elections. Clinton wants to stop that. Trump will appoint more conservatives to the Supreme Court.
> 
> *In terms of the issue of bigotry, and the younger people are more than any generation I think, John, in American history, are sick and tired of discrimination and racism. On that issue, I think the points of view of Clinton and Trump are pretty clear. Trump is running his campaign, the cornerstone of his campaign is bigotry, is dividing us up. That is certainly very different from what Clinton believes.*
> 
> So I think if she focuses on the issues, she will do just — really well with the American people and certainly with younger people.
> 
> *Sanders gave four important reasons why millennials should support Hillary Clinton, the economy, the environment, Citizens United, and her stance against discrimination and racism. I would add Clinton’s free college tuition plan, and her plan to deal with student loan debt as two other very large reasons.* Plus, Clinton’s plan on healthcare would make it easier and cheaper to get coverage, while Trump intends to throw Americans under age 25 off of their parents’ health insurance.
> 
> There is no contest on the issues for younger voters, and once they see their options side by side on the debate stage, the choice should be an easy one for millennial voters. Sen. Sanders has been true to his word, and his doing his part to help get Clinton elected, but it will be up to the candidate herself to close the deal.
> 
> *Link*




Hillary's not much better.

Millennial voters? People do realize that most of his voters were not millennials, right? Earlier you were mocking Sander's plan for free tuition, but now you are highlighting Clinton's supposed support for it (we'll see what actually happens if she becomes President). I like that Bernie didn't mention economic issues, probably because of her poor record and/or inability to commit to specifics on those. Such as her flip-flopping on trade deals and the minimum wage.

I also like that you didn't choose to highlight the part about Citizen's United and how billionaires should not "buy" elections. Maybe because of the vast amounts of money that her campaign has accepted from corporations and wealthy donors. Or maybe because of the millions that's she's made from "speeches" at investment banks that have gone directly into her pocket. And that's not even mentioning the Clinton Foundation and the potential conflicts of interest that will arise from it if she becomes President.



RabzonKhan said:


> Hillary won the debate, big time, watch, her poll numbers are going to go up!




And then they'll come right back down again, as they have before. Enjoy it while you can. The fact that the race is this competitive with Trump as the Republican nominee is incredibly sad. But I guess with a nominee like Hillary, people should be feeling lucky that she's winning at all. He was probably the only candidate that she could beat.


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## T-72M1

LA se Karachi said:


> He was probably the only candidate that she could beat.


Disagree, I think she would have had a far easier time of it versus any of the other 16 he destroyed in the primaries. There might be a lot to criticize him on, but between the two, and in the absence of Bernie, he is the populist candidate here. 

A lot the criticism of Trump also amounts to "he said mean things", that is superficial compared to Clinton's actual record in office, as the secretary of state, having presided over disaster after disaster.. The incumbency thing also statistically goes against her, the polls have been tightening, Trump avoided any major gaffes tonight..

I think we're in for a photo finish


----------



## maximuswarrior

Hassan_Ishtiaq said:


> Lol, did I step on your tail sh!t stain?
> 
> Now keep quoting him like you're his b!tch.



Hey cheerleader, your Trump clown got owned you little pimp. Now go and cry rivers on DesertDog's shoulders. Hillary smoked the clown. LOL


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## flamer84

T-72M1 said:


> Disagree, I think she would have had a far easier time of it versus any of the other 16 he destroyed in the primaries. There might be a lot to criticize him on, but between the two, and in the absence of Bernie, he is the populist candidate here.
> 
> A lot the criticism of Trump also amounts to "he said mean things", that is superficial compared to Clinton's actual record in office, as the secretary of state, having presided over disaster after disaster.. The incumbency thing also statistically goes against her, the polls have been tightening, Trump avoided any major gaffes tonight..
> 
> I think we're in for a photo finish




That's just because Republicans went full retard on their candidates.When you have "let's ban dildos" Cruz as your poster boy,you deserve Trump.


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## KAL-EL

I'm going to write in Jean-Luc Picard or Kathryn Janeway.


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## F-22Raptor

How Hillary Clinton Played Trump for a Fool

Before Monday night’s debate, we all read that *Hillary Clinton* was planning to bait *Donald Trump* and that Donald Trump was blowing off debate practice. Two typical responses from jaded readers: 1) If that were Clinton’s real plan, she’d be hiding it. 2) Trump is obviously trying to set expectations low.

But never underestimate the power of incompetence. As it turns out, the pre-debate leaks seem to have been accurate: Clinton baited Trump, and Trump showed up unprepared. So what happened then? Clinton won. If we were to write it as a play:

*Clinton campaign pre-debate:* We’re going to bait Trump and make him lose his cool.

*Trump campaign pre-debate:* Whatever.

*Hillary Clinton:* Bait.

*Trump:* Loses cool.

All of this was undoubtedly a relief to supporters of Clinton and opponents of Trump, but it was also astonishing. Trump’s performance was, as political strategist *David Axelrod* noted on CNN afterward, “inexplicable.” For Trump to win, he had to do one thing: look sane. What he did: look not sane. He had to follow a simple set of rules: stay on message; have a prepared response to the obvious attacks; and keep his wits about him when baited. What he did: go off message, offer zero prepared responses, and lose his cool over the bait—every time.

Clinton’s lines of attack against Trump were entirely predictable, based on things well covered in the news: his business disputes, his tax secrecy, his comments about women, and his birtherism. Often, the best response from Trump would have been to ignore it. Otherwise, the best approach would have been to trot out some rehearsed response. Instead, he jumped wildly at every wave of the cape, or he offered an improvised mess.

*Lester Holt* took a lot of abuse from Clinton supporters on Twitter for failing to step in more often. But the result was illuminating. Clinton would let Trump speak, and Trump would interrupt and hector Clinton throughout her statements, responding to every needling. The more Trump did this, the more rope Holt provided, allowing Trump to coil it tightly around his own neck. Meanwhile, viewers were treated to a long Trumpian monologue about how Clinton’s campaign launched birtherism, keeping the focus on something harmful to him. They saw Trump defend himself regarding a 43-year-old civil rights lawsuit by saying it was settled “without an admission of guilt,” as if that would put things to rest. They saw Trump go off on a long riff on cyber security and fail to notice any chance to ding Clinton, whose emails were not at all properly secured.

When Trump was given a question about a specific issue, he often veered off on odd tangents. I’d have to replay the tape to give an example of how topics segued into one another, but it was incoherent enough that at one point, after a long and digressive rant by Trump against his opponent, all Clinton had to do to get laughs was say, with a smile, “Whew, okay…”, and do a near-shimmy at her podium. Nor is it a good sign when you say, as Trump did, “I think my strongest asset, maybe by far, is my temperament,” and the audience breaks out in laughter.

You’ll notice that the focus here hasn’t been on Clinton. That’s not because she wasn’t important or because she’s undeserving of attention. But Clinton did exactly what anyone would have expected: she showed up prepared and, after initial nervousness, gained confidence. By 30 minutes in, she was in the zone and enjoying herself. Her sanctimony on the birther issue, among others, was hard for this viewer to take, given her memorably ugly campaign against *Barack Obama* in 2008. But Hillary Clinton is Hillary Clinton. Her shortcomings are known. They faded into the background as Trump grabbed all the attention.

What does this mean? If Trump’s polls keep going up after this week, then the discontent in the nation is even greater than most of us realize. But it’s likelier that the galloping polls of Trump come to a halt. All he needed to do was prove to viewers that he could act presidential for 90 minutes. All Clinton needed to do was prove that he couldn’t. And she succeeded.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/how-hillary-clinton-played-trump-for-a-fool-debate


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## Desert Fox

*Numerous Polls Show Donald Trump Won Last Night's Debate*




















 

 

 

​@T-72M1 @Nilgiri @ptldM3



RabzonKhan said:


> Trump is behaving, he’s addressing Hillary, as Secretary Clinton.


You do know he's calling her that condescendingly right? To remind the crowd how big of a failure she was as a politician in governmental office, that's why he kept bringing up how she only came up with her solutions during the last few months meanwhile for 30+ years as a Politician she did nothing to solve the very problems she's now claiming she has the solutions for (she helped created many of the same problems) .

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## iPhone

So, I think trump started out strong. Talking about bringing the jobs back, tax reforms. I think those issues resonated with the public. I felt he made sense on those issues.

But about 20 minutes in Clinton started to get under his skin, she shook him up, rattled him and he lost his cool. Then the name calling began, talking over each other, and then Trump even lost it at the moderator. A lot of his lies came out which he refused to accept.

On the issue of race he called stop, question and frisk and effective tool which has been deemed unconstitutional, which he also refused to accept. He kept repeating this one guy's name, Sean Henderson or something to whom he used to bump heads on the Iraq war issue, I thought that was pretty hilarious he said, "somebody call Sean henderson and ask him, but nobody calls Sean henderson." lol that really amused me.

As far as the winning and loosing is concerned, I don't think that matters. Both trump and Hillary people have made up their minds about their candidates. Trump people want a dick for president and that's how trump came out last night, a dick and an asshole, and Trump people love him for that. So, this what this election has boiled down to.


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## Fenrir

Desert Fox said:


> *Numerous Polls Show Donald Trump Won Last Night's Debate*
> ​



On Fox and Friends this morning, Trump claimed that he won the debate because online polls showed it to be true - although those poll numbers may be a little dodgy.

“I know I did better than Hillary and ever poll shows that,” said Trump.

“I won Slate, I won Drudge, I won CBS, I won Time magazine. I won every poll apart from CNN and not many people are watching CNN,” he declared.

Except, Major Garrett from CBS rebuked Trump’s claim:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/780747025398763520
Be careful with images like those, as their authenticity is often suspect.

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## T-72M1

I thought Trump held up reasonably well, no major campaign shattering gaffes, lol almost like he's immune to those. She was the pro debater, a practiced robotic politician with decades of experience who performed as expected. No one landed a knockout punch, Trump was solid. I'd like my next two with a little more spice, thanks. 

Here's a couple of interesting non-partisan non-mainstream media analyses.











TYT analysis, these guys _loathe _Trump





















hmm, and I read somewhere that the first 30 minutes are the most crucial with a lot of people tuned in but those numbers start to dwindle a bit around the halfway mark. Not surprising, it is politics, not sport.

pro Trump youtuber reviews:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFl0tMN6wAg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nicsoRdx2nw

and Trump was right, the mainstream media really is a propaganda arm for her campaign, zero support online anywhere from excited hillary fans, it's almost like they don't even exist. 

apart from Rabzon mian here of course lol, but I suspect even most of his support is just Trump hate/fear.

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## Desert Fox

*MORE Polls Show Donald Trump Won Debate (Pt2)
































*​

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## jha

Desert Fox said:


> *Numerous Polls Show Donald Trump Won Last Night's Debate*
> 
> View attachment 338589
> 
> View attachment 338588
> 
> View attachment 338587
> 
> View attachment 338585
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​@T-72M1 @Nilgiri @ptldM3



Interesting.... Were all these polls rigged ? I dont think so... Looks like Trump is becoming Teflon candidate..

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## Desert Fox

Maddy Lynn said:


> those poll numbers may be a little dodgy.


Sure, when the same polls show Hillary winning, they're accurate, but when they show Trump winning then they're "dodgy".


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## Indrajit

I saw the debate & I though Clinton performed better for the most part except at the beginning when Trump seemed to hold his own. I thought Trump kept going off on to irrelevant issues when baited. which is why I'm surprised at the debate poll. If these polls are accurate, then they suggest that the momentum in favour of trump is very strong & he is not about to be pulled back by his performances in the debate. If that is the case, it should become clearer over the next couple of weeks when Trump should start moving into a decent lead in the national polls. I think it will get clearer over the next couple of days.


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## T-72M1

jha said:


> Looks like Trump is becoming Teflon candidate..


look like ? been that way since the primaries !









=============================================

where the hell are @Syed.Ali.Haider @boomslang @C130 etc

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## VCheng

T-72M1 said:


> =============================================
> 
> where the hell are @Syed.Ali.Haider @boomslang @C130 etc



I am here. Right here.

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## T-72M1

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> I am here. Right here.


lurking in the shadows, lulzing away is no way to be  

just about a month and a bit to go, chip in with your thoughts, sir, make PDF great again


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## VCheng

T-72M1 said:


> lurking in the shadows, lulzing away is no way to be
> 
> just about a month and a bit to go, chip in with your thoughts, sir, make PDF great again



Let those with famcy titles and duties make PDF great again. Here, I am just a plebe. 

However, I do my part to make USA great. Still. 

Back to the topic, USA is great in spite of its Presidents, not because of them. The continuity of pursuing national interests will remain unbroken, regardless of who wins this election, of that I am sure.


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## T-72M1

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Let those with famcy titles and duties make PDF great again. Here, I am just a plebe.


and this right here is a working class thread, for 'murrican trade and military deals effect us all.



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> However, I do my part to make USA great. Still.


why stop at great, make it tremendous. 



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Back to the topic, USA is great in spite of its Presidents, not because of them. The continuity of pursuing national interests will remain unbroken, regardless of who wins this election, of that I am sure.


absolutely, and I'm acutely aware of that fact. 






pretty remarkable how that kind of non interventionist and trade populist narrative is now being used as a tool by the right. good thing he's not a crazy right wing ideologue, eh ? 

you voting Trump ?


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## CorporateAffairs

CNN = Clinton News Network is hell bent on giving today's debate to Billary

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> *Numerous Polls Show Donald Trump Won Last Night's Debate*
> 
> View attachment 338589
> 
> View attachment 338588
> 
> View attachment 338587
> 
> View attachment 338585
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​@T-72M1 @Nilgiri @ptldM3
> 
> 
> You do know he's calling her that condescendingly right? To remind the crowd how big of a failure she was as a politician in governmental office, that's why he kept bringing up how she only came up with her solutions during the last few months meanwhile for 30+ years as a Politician she did nothing to solve the very problems she's now claiming she has the solutions for (she helped created many of the same problems) .



Yah polls....I have stopped using them entirely now...be they online or MSM. Former gives it to trump, latter gives it to hillary debate wise.

My thinking is she held up ok, neither collapsed, Trump started out pretty good but kinda lost steam as it progressed as he fell for some baits Hillary set up...instead of punishing her badly (esp on the emails thing....I was waiting for him to continue along the line of intent does not matter, negligence is a CRIME etc.. but it never happened, though I feel he is saving this up).

But one thing that did strike me was that Trump's message was more direct and resonant with neutrals and independents. He didn't give all those awkward dumb smiles and uncomfortable laughter that Hillary was doing, nor did he come off as over-prepared and a typical political-hack (to use his own language) that Hillary did (some of it was truly eye-rolling worthy yawns). Plus he had his own set of jabs to smack her around when she was attempting to cruise.

He will only get better (just like he did for the primary debates)....and he is saving up the really big nasty stuff for later (he has already hinted at one of them: Bill Clinton's "indiscretions".)

Emailgate, clinton foundation, Benghazi and Killary's terrible attacks on women that suffered from her husbands sexual assaults....I think Trump will leave all of these to the very last debate (once he has even more support and endorsements from the security-based community) so its the last thing all independents remember and to get them to come out and vote....while depressing as much of the democrat crowd (and switch them to johnson etc).

I expect in the 2nd debate his approach will be more to establish and secure as much of the conservative base as possible...before the hammer comes out for the 3rd one.

========================

I leave this for people to chew upon:

Mika Despondent Over Debate: Hillary 'Amazing' But Trump Will Win More Voters
Mark Finkelstein



The screencap says it all . . . on today’s Morning Joe, reacting to last night’s presidential debate, Mika Brzezinski was nothing short of despondent.

Brzezinski repeatedly argued that although Hillary was “amazing,” did “great,” etc., it is Donald Trump who walked away the winner politically because he was able to “connect” with the concerns of broad swaths of the electorate. Readers are encouraged to view the video to understand the depths of Mika’s despair.

What do readers think? For what it’s worth, I think Mika is on to something. Hillary was obviously the more prepared, but on a gut level Trump connected with many Americans. He also avoided two major pitfalls: he never got too nasty with Hillary, and though he’s obviously not as knowledgeable on the details, he never got caught out on any embarrassing factual mistake.

MIKA BRZEZINSKI: I think overall for, I’m going to say “us,”and I put that in quotes, it’s a large group of people, I think probably we all thought Hillary won, but my blood pressure kept going up throughout the whole–I could not stop watching until the very end because there was something that was telling me he’s going to do quite well out of this.

. . .

I think he said things that touch on not just what primary voters think but what people are feeling on a number of levels. I just wouldn’t be surprised if he came out doing better in the polls after this, and she was not as great as she could have been.

. . .

I don’t know where I am getting this, just my overall gut feeling from watching the entire debate, she was amazing, she was really good. I just think that he’s going to do quite well out of this.

. . .

What do you look for [to determine who won debate]?

WILLIE GEIST: [inaudible] new voters.

MIKA: Okay. We’ll watch the polls. I think he’s going to get new voters.

. . .

Look, I just think she did everything she was supposed to do and she did a great job and she checked all of the boxes, all of them, and she even had a few moments with zingers. I think he connected. There were like seven times where he said things that really connect with the — where the emotions of a lot of American people are right now, and not just his people and not just certain types of voters. Let’s stop! This isn’t about us.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/mika...-to-admit-hillary-clinton-won-the-debate-but/


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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> Hillary won the debate, big time, watch, her poll numbers are going to go up!


*Post-debate poll: Hillary Clinton takes round one *

By Jennifer Agiesta, CNN Polling Director September 27, 2016

*Poll: Clinton wins first debate*

*(CNN) Hillary Clinton was deemed the winner of Monday night's debate by 62% of voters who tuned in to watch, while just 27% said they thought Donald Trump had the better night,* according to a CNN/ORC Poll of voters who watched the debate.

On the issues, voters who watched broadly say Clinton would do a better job handling foreign policy, 62% to 35%, and most think she would be the better candidate to handle terrorism, 54% to 43% who prefer Trump. But on the economy, the split is much closer, with 51% saying they favor Clinton's approach vs. 47% who prefer Trump.


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## Nilgiri

Clinton News Network. Surprise surprise.

Apparently only online polls that favour Hillary count

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## VCheng

T-72M1 said:


> why stop at great, make it tremendous.
> 
> absolutely, and I'm acutely aware of that fact.




USA's greatest days still lie in the future. No matter who is elected in November.


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## RabzonKhan

My friends, all the online polls are garbage, I did a little experiment, I went to:

http://www.breitbart.com/

http://drudgereport.com/flashnyd.htm

http://variety.com/2016/biz/news/who-won-the-first-clinton-trump-debate-vote-now-1201870869/

http://wkrn.com/

I was able to vote several times with the same IP address, for example, under one minute I was able to vote three times. All you got to do is after you vote press the back button and go to the page again and you can vote again. So please go ahead visit any of the websites and try for yourself.

@anon45 @F-22Raptor @Nilgiri @Desert Fox @T-72M1 @jha

I especially request @LA se Karachi @*Syed.Ali.Haider* since you guys a neutral.

Thanks in advance

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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> My friends, all the online polls are garbage, I did a little experiment, I went to:
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/
> 
> http://drudgereport.com/flashnyd.htm
> 
> http://variety.com/2016/biz/news/who-won-the-first-clinton-trump-debate-vote-now-1201870869/
> 
> http://wkrn.com/
> 
> I was able to vote several times with the same IP address, for example, under one minute I was able to vote three times. All you got to do is after you vote press the back button and go to the page again and you can vote again. So please go ahead visit any of the websites and try for yourself.
> 
> @anon45 @F-22Raptor @Nilgiri @Desert Fox @T-72M1 @jha
> 
> I especially request @LA se Karachi @*Syed.Ali.Haider* since you guys a neutral.
> 
> Thanks in advance


The back button doesn't mean anything, you will notice that if you refresh the page it says your vote has already been counted, at least on drudge, the rest of the polls seem to have closed. Resetting your router or using a proxy will probably allow for unlimited voting though, either way, I'm not putting too much stock in these polls, everyone knows Drudge leans right, if they had a poll on Salon or HuffingtonPost, those might have favoured Clinton.

Meanwhile, Trump is back on the campaign trail.






*
FULL EVENT: Donald Trump Holds MASSIVE Rally in Melbourne, FL*





look at the size of these crowds

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## LA se Karachi

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> USA's greatest days still lie in the future. No matter who is elected in November.




Not true, economically speaking, if you are a part of the middle or working class. They were better off 40 years ago. And the income growth in this country wasn't anywhere near as egregiously unequal as it has been since the 1980s/1990s:















T-72M1 said:


> There might be a lot to criticize him on, but between the two, and in the absence of Bernie, he is the populist candidate here.
> 
> A lot the criticism of Trump also amounts to "he said mean things", that is superficial compared to Clinton's actual record in office, as the secretary of state, having presided over disaster after disaster.. The incumbency thing also statistically goes against her, the polls have been tightening, Trump avoided any major gaffes tonight..
> 
> I think we're in for a photo finish




He's a fake populist. Remember that he's a Manhattan billionaire born to a rich family. If Trump can be considered a populist, I'm not sure who can't. Other than on trade deals, he holds virtually no populist positions. He's just tapped into the economic discontent and anti-corruption wave in this country. But he takes few positions that would actually help solve the problem.

He's done far more than say mean things. He holds some politically extreme positions when it comes to immigrants, minorities, and foreign policy.



T-72M1 said:


> Disagree, I think she would have had a far easier time of it versus any of the other 16 he destroyed in the primaries.




There's a good chance that she would have beaten Cruz too. But many polls showed Cruz closer than Trump at the time. In any case, Kasich would have won without any issue (against Clinton---not Sanders):











There are a lot people who would have voted for any Republican but Trump over Hillary. If Kasich was running instead, he'd likely be winning. He was the strongest Republican candidate.



RabzonKhan said:


> My friends, all the online polls are garbage, I did a little experiment, I went to:
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/
> 
> http://drudgereport.com/flashnyd.htm
> 
> http://variety.com/2016/biz/news/who-won-the-first-clinton-trump-debate-vote-now-1201870869/
> 
> http://wkrn.com/
> 
> I was able to vote several times with the same IP address, for example, under one minute I was able to vote three times. All you got to do is after you vote press the back button and go to the page again and you can vote again. So please go ahead visit any of the websites and try for yourself.
> 
> @anon45 @F-22Raptor @Nilgiri @Desert Fox @T-72M1 @jha
> 
> I especially request @LA se Karachi @*Syed.Ali.Haider* since you guys a neutral.
> 
> Thanks in advance




You are correct. It can be as simple as using a different browser. However, the biggest problem with these online voting sessions is that they aren't a good way to gauge people's opinions to begin with. The people participating in them aren't necessarily reflective of the American voting population at large. Proper polls conducted with large groups and by polling companies mean something.

I would caution both sides though. Winning a debate doesn't typically lead to a long term change in the race on its own. Ask Mitt Romney. The "winning" candidate usually gets a temporary bounce in the polls, but they settle back down over time. It will take much more than a debate to really move the needle for either candidate.

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## T-72M1

LA se Karachi said:


> He's a fake populist. Remember that he's a Manhattan billionaire born to a rich family. If Trump can be considered a populist, I'm not sure who can't. Other than on trade deals, he holds virtually no populist positions. He's just tapped into the economic discontent and anti-corruption wave in this country. But he takes few positions that would actually help solve the problem.


maybe, but he's tapped into that discontent _big league_.



LA se Karachi said:


> He's done far more than say mean things. He holds some politically extreme positions when it comes to immigrants, minorities, and foreign policy.


illegal immigration, I suppose that's also a somewhat populist position from the right. On foreign policy I find him refreshing, he's thrown some good ideas out there, he's non interventionist, even to the left of Hillary.



LA se Karachi said:


> There's a good chance that she would have beaten Cruz too. But many polls showed Cruz closer than Trump at the time.


She would have beaten Cruz in a cakewalk, the demographics just aren't there to support a Christian right wing ideologue like him.



LA se Karachi said:


> But many polls showed Cruz closer than Trump at the time. In any case, Kasich would have won without any issue (against Clinton---not Sanders):
> 
> There are a lot people who would have voted for any Republican but Trump over Hillary. If Kasich was running instead, he'd likely be winning. He was the strongest Republican candidate.


Hypothetical polling during the primaries meant little, Kasich kept touting those same numbers but what did it get him ? nothing. He won one state, his home state. 1 out of 50, the strongest republican wut 

I also thought Trump's analysis at the time was very astute, he pointed out correctly that Kasich, all through his primary, never got attacked, no negative adds, nothing. Kasich was also what he described as a cookie cutter republican, dems would have destroyed him in a general, it would have been another Romney story.

Trump otoh, not an ideologue, liberal on social issues, no wonder he's been polling much better than Hillary with independents, and he's making a big push for blue states where Kasich and others wouldn't even bother campaigning. A bit like Shane Warne with his googly and flipper  They don't know what to do with him, despite the mainstream media's best efforts, none of these "rasict, sexist, xenophobe" smears are sticking and he's basically tied with her. This much bad press would have guaranteed sunk anyone else.

What an amazing race so far, let's see if there is any 'october surprise' like they keep talking about.

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## LA se Karachi

T-72M1 said:


> maybe, but he's tapped into that discontent _big league_.




Yes, though illegitimately, when one looks at his political positions, past record, and who is.



T-72M1 said:


> She would have beaten Cruz in a cakewalk, the demographics just aren't there to support a Christian right wing ideologue like him.




Cruz did his best to keep from looking like the far-right candidate that he was. Trump and the establishment's disdain for/fear of Trump's candidacy helped him immensely in this regard. He began to be seen as the "sane" candidate who was also very conservative and could potentially unite the Republican Party more than Trump (though the establishment originally preferred other candidates and had a poor relationship with him).

Clinton would have indeed started out as the favorite. But even Cruz was polling a bit better than Trump at the time. Either way though, Kasich was/is much better than Trump.



T-72M1 said:


> Hypothetical polling during the primaries meant little, Kasich kept touting those same numbers but what did it get him ? nothing. He won one state, his home state. 1 out of 50, the strongest republican wut




He would definitely have been the strongest candidate in the General Election. Polls, and favorable ratings, consistently showed that he was _far _ahead of Trump. Only a fraction of Republican voters even turned out to vote in the primaries, and it's independents that Kasich did much better with. He also lost fewer Republicans than Trump in the general polling. Not surprising when you look at his campaign.

Polling starts to get fairly predictive in the Spring (not the margin, but in predicting the winner). This has held up historically. While it's true that Kasich would probably not have won by 7%+ in the general election, he definitely would have had the advantage over Hillary. Very few candidates that consistently poll ahead of another during the Spring (even as the primaries are going on) wind up losing in the general election. You can look at polling for past Presidential elections.



T-72M1 said:


> I also thought Trump's analysis at the time was very astute, he pointed out correctly that Kasich, all through his primary, never got attacked, no negative adds, nothing. Kasich was also what he described as a cookie cutter republican, dems would have destroyed him in a general, it would have been another Romney story.
> 
> 
> Trump otoh, not an ideologue, liberal on social issues, no wonder he's been polling much better than Hillary with independents, and he's making a big push for blue states where Kasich and others wouldn't even bother campaigning. A bit like Shane Warne with his googly and flipper  They don't know what to do with him, despite the mainstream media's best efforts, none of these "rasict, sexist, xenophobe" smears are sticking and he's basically tied with her. This much bad press would have guaranteed sunk anyone else.




Everyone who doesn't like what polls say use this argument. You're not the only one. Clinton supporters foolishly did the same thing with Sanders (and Obama in 2008). They're rarely proved right. There are reasons that a candidate keeps polling better than others, and its not because they haven't been attacked. You're wrong if you think that polling averages showing Kasich winning by 7%+ and Trump losing by significant margin in the Spring didn't mean anything. That's far too wide a gap. It would be quite a statistical anomaly if he ended up polling like what Trump is now.

Kasich would have done better than Trump in "blue" and "purple" states, especially in the Midwest. He's well liked as the Governor of Ohio, a crucial state as any in Presidential elections.

I'm not sure you understand just how much Trump is disliked by Americans:





_http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/donald-trump-favorable-rating _​
The only reason that this race is even competitive is because Hillary is disliked so much as well (though not quite as much as Trump):





_http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating



T-72M1 said:



What an amazing race so far, let's see if there is any 'october surprise' like they keep talking about. 

Click to expand...

_
Amazing to some. Disappointing to others like me._ _​

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## T-72M1

LA se Karachi said:


> He would definitely have been the strongest candidate in the General Election. Polls, and favorable ratings, consistently showed that he was _far _ahead of Trump. Only a fraction of Republican voters even turned out to vote in the primaries, and it's independents that Kasich did much better with. He also lost fewer Republicans than Trump in the general polling. Not surprising when you look at his campaign.
> 
> Polling starts to get fairly predictive in the Spring (not the margin, but in predicting the winner). This has held up historically. While it's true that Kasich would probably not have won by 7%+ in the general election, he definitely would have had the advantage over Hillary. Very few candidates that consistently poll ahead of another during the Spring (even as the primaries are going on) wind up losing in the general election. You can look at polling for past Presidential elections.
> 
> Everyone who doesn't like what polls say use this argument. You're not the only one. Clinton supporters foolishly did the same thing with Sanders (and Obama in 2008). They're rarely proved right. There are reasons that a candidate keeps polling better than others, and its not because they haven't been attacked. You're wrong if you think that polling averages showing Kasich winning by 7%+ and Trump losing by significant margin in the Spring didn't mean anything. That's far too wide a gap. It would be quite a statistical anomaly if he ended up polling like what Trump is now.
> 
> Kasich would have done better than Trump in "blue" and "purple" states, especially in the Midwest. He's well liked as the Governor of Ohio, a crucial state as any in Presidential elections.
> 
> I'm not sure you understand just how much Trump is disliked by Americans:


Only a fraction ? Trump got the most votes in the primaries in the history of the party, and he was up against 16.

Kasich and Bernie, we'll never find out how it would have turned out for them but I'm not sure if historical trends matter this time, Trump's gravity defying campaign has broken all the rules.

He does have high unfavourable numbers but some of that has to be the vicious media coverage, sure, he's said some stupid things but overall it has been very slanted. And the people (a lot of them) have rejected it, as is evidenced by him being in a dead heat barely a month before election day.



LA se Karachi said:


> Amazing to some. Disappointing to others like me._ _


understandable, but either way, it's not going to be the end of the world. Trump is not some fascist nazi, and Hillary is just another highly corrupt politician.

Imagine Trump as POTUS, chairing G-5/10/20, NATO meetings, making deals with Xi and Putin, addressing the UN 

At the very least, his will be an entertaining tenure, that we can be sure of. I think he'll probably make a good president too.

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## VCheng

LA se Karachi said:


> the income growth in this country wasn't anywhere near as egregiously unequal



_"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of."_ - Confucius

USA is pretty well-governed.

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## RoadRunner401

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> USA's greatest days still lie in the future. No matter who is elected in November.



Looks like, you will be buying that ocean front real estate in Las Vegas, Nevada after all!

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## RabzonKhan

Two Republican leaning Newspapers endorse Hillary. 

*
The Arizona Republic editorial board endorses Hillary Clinton for president.







Since The Arizona Republic began publication in 1890, we have never endorsed a Democrat over a Republican for president. Never. This reflects a deep philosophical appreciation for conservative ideals and Republican principles.*

This year is different.

The 2016 Republican candidate is not conservative and he is not qualified.

That’s why, for the first time in our history, _The Arizona Republic_ will support a Democrat for president.

*What Clinton has (and Trump doesn’t)*

The challenges the United States faces domestically and internationally demand a steady hand, a cool head and the ability to think carefully before acting.

Hillary Clinton understands this. Donald Trump does not.

Clinton has the temperament and experience to be president. Donald Trump does not.

Clinton knows how to compromise and to lead with intelligence, decorum and perspective. She has a record of public service as First Lady, senator and secretary of state.

She has withstood decades of scrutiny so intense it would wither most politicians. The vehemence of some of the anti-Clinton attacks strains credulity.

*Trump hasn’t even let the American people scrutinize his tax returns, which could help the nation judge his claims of business acumen.*

*Her flaws pale in comparison*

Make no mistake: Hillary Clinton has flaws. She has made serious missteps.

Clinton’s use of a private email server while secretary of State was a mistake, as she has acknowledged. Donations to the Clinton Foundation while she was secretary of State raise concerns that donors were hoping to buy access. Though there is no evidence of wrongdoing, she should have put up a firewall.

Yet despite her flaws, Clinton is the superior choice.

She does not casually say things that embolden our adversaries and frighten our allies. Her approach to governance is mature, confident and rational.

That cannot be said of her opponent.

Clinton retains her composure under pressure. She’s tough. She doesn’t back down.

Trump responds to criticism with the petulance of verbal spit wads.

That’s beneath our national dignity.

When the president of the United States speaks, the world expects substance. Not a blistering tweet.

*Whose hand do you want on the nuclear button?*

*Clinton has argued America’s case before friendly and unfriendly foreign leaders with tenacity, diplomacy and skill. She earned respect by knowing the issues, the history and the facts.*

*She is intimately familiar with the challenges we face in our relations with Russia, China, the Middle East, North Korea and elsewhere. She’ll stand by our friends and she’s not afraid to confront our enemies.*

*Contrast Clinton’s tenacity and professionalism with Trump, who began his campaign with gross generalities about Mexico and Mexicans as criminals and rapists. These were careless slaps at a valued trading partner and Arizona’s neighbor. They were thoughtless insults about people whose labor and energy enrich our country.*

*Trump demonstrated his clumsiness on the world stage by making nice with Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto only a few hours before appearing in Phoenix to deliver yet another rant about Mexican immigrants and border walls.*

Arizona’s been there on immigration (it doesn’t work)

What’s more, Arizona went down the hardline immigration road Trump travels. It led our state to SB 1070, the 2010 “show me your papers” law that earned Arizona international condemnation and did nothing to resolve real problems with undocumented immigration.

Arizona understands that we don’t need a repeat of that divisive, unproductive fiasco on the national level. A recent poll shows Arizonans oppose both more walls and the mass deportations Trump endorses.

We need a president who can broker solutions.

Clinton calls for comprehensive immigration reform, a goal that business, faith and law enforcement leaders have sought for years. Her support for a pathway to citizenship and her call for compassion for families torn apart by deportation are consistent with her longtime support for human rights.

*Clinton’s equality vs. Trump’s lack of respect*

*As secretary of state, Clinton made gender equality a priority for U.S. foreign policy. This is an extension of Clinton’s bold “women’s rights are human rights” speech in 1995.*

*It reflects an understanding that America’s commitment to human rights is a critically needed beacon in today’s troubled world.*

*Trump’s long history of objectifying women and his demeaning comments about women during the campaign are not just good-old-boy gaffes.*

*They are evidence of deep character flaws. They are part of a pattern.*

Trump mocked a reporter’s physical handicap. Picked a fight with a Gold Star family.Insulted POWs. Suggested a Latino judge can’t be fair because of his heritage. Proposed banning Muslim immigration.

*Each of those comments show a stunning lack of human decency, empathy and respect. Taken together they reveal a candidate who doesn’t grasp our national ideals.*

*A centrist or a wild card?*

Many Republicans understand this. But they shudder at the thought of Hillary Clinton naming Supreme Court justices. So they stick with Trump. We get that. But we ask them to see Trump for what he is — and what he is not.

Trump’s conversion to conservatism is recent and unconvincing. There is no guarantee he will name solid conservatives to the Supreme Court.

Hillary Clinton has long been a centrist. Despite her tack left to woo Bernie Sanders supporters, Clinton retains her centrist roots. Her justices might not be in the mold of Antonin Scalia, but they will be accomplished individuals with the experience, education and intelligence to handle the job.

They will be competent. Just as she is competent.

*If a candidate can’t control his words*

*Trump’s inability to control himself or be controlled by others represents a real threat to our national security. His recent efforts to stay on script are not reassuring. They are phony.*

The president commands our nuclear arsenal. Trump can’t command his own rhetoric.

Were he to become president, his casual remarks — such as saying he wouldn’t defend NATO partners from invasion — could have devastating consequences.

*Trump has praised Russian President Vladimir Putin, a thug who has made it clear he wants to expand Russia’s international footprint.

Trump suggested Russia engage in espionage against Hillary Clinton — an outrageous statement that he later insisted was meant in jest.*

Trump said President Obama and Hillary Clinton were “co-founders” of ISIS, then walked that back by saying it was sarcasm.

It was reckless.

Being the leader of the free world requires a sense of propriety that Trump lacks.

*Clinton’s opportunity to heal this nation*

We understand that Trump’s candidacy tapped a deep discontent among those who feel left behind by a changed economy and shifting demographics.

Their concerns deserve to be discussed with respect.

Ironically, Trump hasn’t done that. He has merely pandered. Instead of offering solutions, he hangs scapegoats like piñatas and invites people to take a swing.

In a nation with an increasingly diverse population, Trump offers a recipe for permanent civil discord.

In a global economy, he offers protectionism and a false promise to bring back jobs that no longer exist.

America needs to look ahead and build a new era of prosperity for the working class.

This is Hillary Clinton’s opportunity. She can reach out to those who feel left behind. She can make it clear that America sees them and will address their concerns.

She can move us beyond rancor and incivility.

_The Arizona Republic_ endorses Hillary Clinton for president. *Link*









*Enquirer: It has to be Hillary Clinton
*
Enquirer editorial board

Presidential elections should be about who’s the best candidate, not who’s the least flawed. Unfortunately, that’s not the case this year.

Republican Donald Trump and Democrat Hillary Clinton, the most unpopular pair of presidential candidates in American history, both have troubled relationships with truth and transparency. Trump, despite all of his bluster about wanting to “make America great again,” has exploited and expanded our internal divisions. Clinton’s arrogance and unwillingness to admit wrongdoing have made her a divisive and distrusted figure as well.

*The Enquirer has supported Republicans for president for almost a century – a tradition this editorial board doesn’t take lightly. But this is not a traditional race, and these are not traditional times. Our country needs calm, thoughtful leadership to deal with the challenges we face at home and abroad. We need a leader who will bring out the best in all Americans, not the worst.*

That’s why there is only one choice when we elect a president in November: Hillary Clinton.

Enquirer editor: Why we're endorsing for president

*Clinton is a known commodity with a proven track record of governing. As senator of New York, she earned respect in Congress by working across the aisle and crafting bills with conservative lawmakers. She helped 9/11 first responders get the care they needed after suffering health effects from their time at Ground Zero, and helped expand health care and family leave for military families. Clinton has spent more than 40 years fighting for women's and children's rights. As first lady, she unsuccessfully fought for universal health care but helped to create the Children's Health Insurance Program that provides health care to more than 8 million kids today. She has been a proponent of closing the gender wage gap and has stood up for LGBT rights domestically and internationally, including advocating for marriage equality.*

*Trump is a clear and present danger to our country. He has no history of governance that should engender any confidence from voters. Trump has no foreign policy experience, and the fact that he doesn't recognize it – instead insisting that, "I know more about ISIS than the generals do" – is even more troubling.* *His wild threats to blow Iranian ships out of the water if they make rude gestures at U.S. ships is just the type of reckless, cowboy diplomacy Americans should fear from a Trump presidency. Clinton has been criticized as being hawkish but has shown a measured approach to the world's problems. Do we really want someone in charge of our military and nuclear codes who has an impulse control problem? The fact that so many top military and national security officials are not supporting Trump speaks volumes.*

Clinton, meanwhile, was a competent secretary of state, with far stronger diplomatic skills than she gets credit for. Yes, mistakes were made in Benghazi, and it was tragic that four Americans lost their lives in the 2012 terror attacks on the U.S. consulate there. But the incident was never the diabolical conspiracy that Republicans wanted us to believe, and Clinton was absolved of blame after lengthy investigations. As the nation's top diplomat, Clinton was well-traveled, visiting numerous countries and restoring U.S. influence internationally. She was part of President Barack Obama's inner circle when the decision was made to go after and kill Osama bin Laden and negotiated U.N. sanctions that led to the Iran nuclear deal.

*Her presidential campaign has been an inclusive one, reflected by the diversity of her supporters. She has even moved to the left on health care, expressing a willingness to consider Sen. Bernie Sanders' single-payer "Medicare for all" health care plan. Clinton has talked about building bridges, not walls, and has a plan to keep immigrant families together with a path to citizenship.*

We have our issues with Clinton. Her reluctance to acknowledge her poor judgment in using a private email server and mishandling classified information is troubling. So is her lack of transparency. We were critical of her 275-day streak without a press conference, which just ended this month. And she should have removed herself from or restructured the Clinton Foundation after allegations arose that foreign entities were trading monetary donations for political influence and special access.

*But our reservations about Clinton pale in comparison to our fears about Trump.*

This editorial board has been consistent in its criticism of his policies and temperament beginning with the Republican primary. We've condemned his childish insults; offensive remarks to women, Hispanics and African-Americans; and the way he has played on many Americans' fears and prejudices to further himself politically. Trump brands himself as an outsider untainted by special interests, but we see a man utterly corrupted by self-interest. His narcissistic bid for the presidency is more about making himself great than America. Trump tears our country and many of its people down with his words so that he can build himself up. What else are we left to believe about a man who tells the American public that he alone can fix what ails us?

*While Clinton has been relentlessly challenged about her honesty, Trump was the primary propagator of arguably the biggest lie of the past eight years: that Obama wasn't born in the United States. Trump has played fast and loose with the support of white supremacist groups. He has praised some of our country's most dangerous enemies – see Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Un and Saddam Hussein – while insulting a sitting president, our military generals, a Gold Star family and prisoners of war like Sen. John McCain. Of late, Trump has toned down his divisive rhetoric, sticking to carefully constructed scripts and teleprompters. But going two weeks without saying something misogynistic, racist or xenophobic is hardly a qualification for the most important job in the world. *Why should anyone believe that a Trump presidency would look markedly different from his offensive, erratic, stance-shifting presidential campaign?

Some believe Trump's business acumen would make him the better choice to move America's slow recovery into a full stride. It’s true that he has created jobs, but he also has sent many overseas and left a trail of unpaid contractors in his wake. His refusal to release his tax returns draws into question both Trump’s true income and whether he is paying his fair share of taxes. Even if you consider Trump a successful businessman, running a government is not the same as being the CEO of a company. The United States cannot file bankruptcy to avoid paying its debts.

Trump’s rise through a crowded Republican primary field as well as Sanders' impressive challenge on the Democratic side make clear that the American people yearn for a change in our current state of politics. However, our country needs to seek thoughtful change, not just change for the sake of change. Four years is plenty of time to do enough damage that it could take America years to recover from, if at all.

*In these uncertain times, America needs a brave leader, not bravado. Real solutions, not paper-thin promises. A clear eye toward the future, not a cynical appeal to the good old days.*

*Hillary Clinton has her faults, certainly, but she has spent a lifetime working to improve the lives of Americans both inside and outside of Washington. It's time to elect the first female U.S. president – not because she's a woman, but because she's hands-down the most qualified choice.* *Link*


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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> Hillary won the debate, big time, watch, her poll numbers are going to go up!


After the CNN poll (A CNN poll showed 62 percent of voters thought Clinton had the best performance, while just 27 percent said Trump did.)

Two more post debate polls are showing Hillary won the debate:

*POLITICO/Morning Consult poll: Clinton handily beat Trump at debate*
By Nolan D. McCaskill 09/28/16


Hillary Clinton won Monday’s showdown with Donald Trump at Hofstra University, according the results of a POLITICO/Morning Consult poll released Wednesday.

Nearly half of the likely voters surveyed declared Clinton the victor in Monday’s presidential debate, the first of three in the run-up to November. *Forty-nine percent said the former secretary of state bested her opponent, while 26 percent gave the edge to Trump.* An additional 26 percent said they either didn’t know who won or had no opinion. *Link*



*Breitbart/Gravis “flash poll”*
Democratic nominee for president Hillary Clinton edged her GOP rival Donald Trump in Monday’s presidential debate held at Hofstra University before a television audience estimated at 100 million viewers, *according to a Breitbart/Gravis “flash poll” conducted minutes after the debate ended.*
*48 percent said Clinton did a better job, compared to 43 percent, who said Trump did the better job*. *Link*




I don’t have time now, but tomorrow I will show you guys how Trump supporters manipulated and rigged the online polls.


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## LA se Karachi

T-72M1 said:


> Only a fraction ? Trump got the most votes in the primaries in the history of the party, and he was up against 16.




He did indeed. But it was still only a fraction of the Republican electorate as a whole:












Few people vote in primaries, unfortunately. It's one of the reasons we ended up with Clinton and Trump, both of whom are intensely disliked by the American public.



T-72M1 said:


> Kasich and Bernie, we'll never find out how it would have turned out for them but I'm not sure if historical trends matter this time, Trump's gravity defying campaign has broken all the rules.




We'll never know for sure, true. Such is the case for any hypothetical scenario that is no longer possible. But we have a pretty good idea from polling. Gravity-defying or not, no one defies poling by that much. Kasich would have done much better in the general election (and probably would have won against Hillary). And Sanders would have done better than Hillary.



T-72M1 said:


> He does have high unfavourable numbers but some of that has to be the vicious media coverage, sure, he's said some stupid things but overall it has been very slanted. And the people (a lot of them) have rejected it, as is evidenced by him being in a dead heat barely a month before election day.




Whatever the cause, the numbers are there. I would contend that is more a result of his brash statements, and a few of the positions he's taken on certain issues rather than the media. But either way, the effect is the same. It is what it is.

I wouldn't say that he's in a dead heat right now, he's slightly behind (though well within striking distance). He can definitely win this thing.



T-72M1 said:


> Imagine Trump as POTUS, chairing G-5/10/20, NATO meetings, making deals with Xi and Putin, addressing the UN




I'd rather not... 



T-72M1 said:


> Trump is not some fascist nazi, and Hillary is just another highly corrupt politician.





T-72M1 said:


> At the very least, his will be an entertaining tenure, that we can be sure of.


On this, we can agree.

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## T-72M1

speech transcript: https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/posts/10157785869445725:0


finally, crooked hillary clapping


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## cloud4000

Interesting debate on poll numbers and how reliable they or may not be. I prefer the eyeball test. I live in Massachusetts, one of the most democratic states in the United States. This Clinton country yet I see no so many Trump signs in people's yards and bumper stickers on their cars. Not many for Clinton. Things may be close here. I can only imagine what the battleground states might look like.

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## RabzonKhan

What a waste of vote! 








*Unable To Name A Foreign Leader, Gary Johnson Has Another 'Aleppo Moment'
*
AMITA KELLY September 29, 2016 

Asked to name his favorite foreign leader, or any foreign leader he admires, Libertarian nominee for president Gary Johnson was unable to come up with an answer.

The exchange occurred on an MSNBC town hall hosted by Chris Matthews Wednesday night.

When Johnson hesitated at the initial question, Matthews said, "Go ahead, you gotta do this. Anywhere. Any continent. Canada, Mexico, Europe, over there, Asia, South America, Africa. Name a foreign leader that you respect."

It continued:

Johnson: I guess I'm having an Aleppo moment in the former president of Mexico.

Matthews: But I'm giving you the whole world.

Johnson: I know, I know, I know.

Matthews: But I'm giving you the whole world. Anybody in the world you like. Anybody. Pick any leader.

Johnson: The former president of Mexico.

Matthews: Which one?

Johnson: I'm having a brain ... "

Johnson's running mate, vice presidential nominee Bill Weld, sat next to him and eventually jumped in to offer the name of former Mexican President Vicente Fox. *Read more*



*
*



T-72M1 said:


> finally, crooked hillary clapping


Well, 13 seconds of clapping, is okay, but the 90 minutes of slamming was far better, I loved it.


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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> What a waste of vote!



Voting for Clinton or Trump is a waste of a vote.

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## RabzonKhan

cloud4000 said:


> Voting for Clinton or Trump is a waste of a vote.


I respect your opinion, but like it or not, the fact is, one of them is going to be our next President, voting for the next President of the United States I think is not a waste of vote.


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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> Gary Johnson Has Another 'Aleppo Moment'




the good CEO was using his former product long past announcing his run, back in 2012 he was way more coherent and talking policy and trade deals and Iran etc with good command of the issues, wtf happened  

 is harmless for the most part but probably  a good idea for someone planning to run for president of the US. 



RabzonKhan said:


> Well, 13 seconds of clapping, is okay, but the 90 minutes of slamming was far better, I loved it.


Trump was very strong for those all crucial first 30 minutes when viewership and interest is highest, how the pundits saw it and how the undecided 'murrican saw it may be two different stories depending on who you talk to.. 

Hillary has this strict school headmistress vibe, not pleasant.. Trump, not politician, not practiced, not plastic... lets see how it goes 

also, I know you probably wont be able to sit through a whole Trump speech vid but go through the transcript.. 

fraud, lies or anything else that you might feel toward it, the fact is that he has positioned himself as the outsider populist fighting a corrupt establishment. Hillary Clinton is the epitome of that establishment, she went hard at him with the racist/sexist/islamo/homophobe etc thing, he didn't say anything mean to her, did he just destroy his "mean bully" image with that ? in fact he was really nice to her at the beginning and when it closed, did he just score a huge hit with women with his chivalry ? 






rabzon mian....


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## RabzonKhan

T-72M1 said:


> the good CEO was using his former product long past announcing his run, back in 2012 he was way more coherent and talking policy and trade deals and Iran etc with good command of the issues, wtf happened
> 
> is harmless for the most part but probably  a good idea for someone planning to run for president of the US.
> 
> 
> Trump was very strong for those all crucial first 30 minutes when viewership and interest is highest, how the pundits saw it and how the undecided 'murrican saw it may be two different stories depending on who you talk to..
> 
> Hillary has this strict school headmistress vibe, not pleasant.. Trump, not politician, not practiced, not plastic... lets see how it goes
> 
> also, I know you probably wont be able to sit through a whole Trump speech vid but go through the transcript..
> 
> fraud, lies or anything else that you might feel toward it, the fact is that he has positioned himself as the outsider populist fighting a corrupt establishment. Hillary Clinton is the epitome of that establishment, she went hard at him with the racist/sexist/islamo/homophobe etc thing, he didn't say anything mean to her, did he just destroy his "mean bully" image with that ? in fact he was really nice to her at the beginning and when it closed, did he just score a huge hit with women with his chivalry ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rabzon mian....


Buddy, it’s lunchtime with my family but I’ll be back.

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> I respect your opinion, but like it or not, the fact is, one of them is going to be our next President, voting for the next President of the United States I think is not a waste of vote.



I respect your opinion too, but any vote for Clinton and Trump is not only a waste of a vote, but a cynical one at that.

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## T-72M1

there are opinions people respect, and then there are opinions that people don't respect..

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## RabzonKhan

T-72M1 said:


> Trump was very strong for those all crucial first 30 minutes when viewership and interest is highest, how the pundits saw it and how the undecided 'murrican saw it may be two different stories depending on who you talk to..


You are right, I read an interesting article in the Politico about the importance of the first 30 minutes of the debate, but this was not an ordinary debate it was one of the most watched debate in the history, the data shows that the viewership stayed quite high the entire time of the debate and that certainly benefited Hillary, since every post debate polls are showing she won.




> Hillary has this strict school headmistress vibe, not pleasant.. Trump, not politician, not practiced, not plastic... lets see how it goes


Sorry to say, it was a match between a well-prepared lawyer and an unprepared totally lost business operator. She looked presidential and presented her opinion with clarity and confidence, on the other hand, Trump looked agitated and was unable to present his views forcefully, he also excessively interrupted Hillary and throughout the debate was on the defensive.




> also, I know you probably wont be able to sit through a whole Trump speech vid but go through the transcript..
> 
> fraud, lies or anything else that you might feel toward it,


Trust me, I do watch his interviews and read a lot about him.




> the fact is that he has positioned himself as the outsider populist fighting a corrupt establishment. Hillary Clinton is the epitome of that establishment,


I won’t say much, but remember Bernie Sanders, and unlike Bernie, he is not even honest and lies like hell.




> she went hard at him with the racist/sexist/islamo/homophobe etc thing, he didn't say anything mean to her, did he just destroy his "mean bully" image with that ? in fact he was really nice to her at the beginning and when it closed, did he just score a huge hit with women with his chivalry ?


Though he was not his usual nasty, but still at times he was loud and excessively interrupted Hillary, I don’t think that kind of attitude will go very well with the women voters.


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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> a well-prepared lawyer and an unprepared..


In any other cycle, it would have been an advantage for her, this time around, I don't think the usual rules apply.



RabzonKhan said:


> unlike Bernie, he is not even honest and lies like hell.


that's your partisan view but he is very much the outsider candidate.

this is going to be a close race  

=================================
*FULL Speech: Donald Trump Rally in Bedford, NH 9/29/16 *


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## Pak_Sher

This is the most exciting election in the US and I look forward to casting my vote.


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## F-22Raptor

In the 34-year history of USA TODAY, the Editorial Board has never taken sides in the presidential race. Instead, we’ve expressed opinions about the major issues and haven’t presumed to tell our readers, who have a variety of priorities and values, which choice is best for them. Because every presidential race is different, we revisit our no-endorsement policy every four years. We’ve never seen reason to alter our approach. Until now.

This year, the choice isn’t between two capable major party nominees who happen to have significant ideological differences. This year, one of the candidates — Republican nominee Donald Trump — is, by unanimous consensus of the Editorial Board, unfit for the presidency.

From the day he declared his candidacy 15 months ago through this week’s first presidential debate, Trump has demonstrated repeatedly that he lacks the temperament, knowledge, steadiness and honesty that America needs from its presidents.

Whether through indifference or ignorance, Trump has betrayed fundamental commitments made by all presidents since the end of World War II. These commitments include unwavering support for NATO allies, steadfast opposition to Russian aggression, and the absolute certainty that the United States will make good on its debts. He has expressed troubling admiration for authoritarian leaders and scant regard for constitutional protections.

We’ve been highly critical of the GOP nominee in a number of previous editorials. With early voting already underway in several states and polls showing a close race, now is the time to spell out, in one place, the reasons Trump should not be president:

*He is erratic. *Trump has been on so many sides of so many issues that attempting to assess his policy positions is like shooting at a moving target. A list prepared by NBC details 124 shifts by Trump on 20 major issues since shortly before he entered the race. He simply spouts slogans and outcomes (he’d replace Obamacare with “something terrific”) without any credible explanations of how he’d achieve them.

*He is ill-equipped to be commander in chief.* Trump’s foreign policy pronouncements typically range from uninformed to incoherent. It’s not just Democrats who say this. Scores of Republican national security leaders have signed an extraordinary open letter calling Trump’s foreign policy vision “wildly inconsistent and unmoored in principle.” In a _Wall Street Journal_ column this month, Robert Gates, the highly respected former Defense secretary who served presidents of both parties over a half-century, described Trump as “beyond repair.”

*He traffics in prejudice.* From the very beginning, Trump has built his campaign on appeals to bigotry and xenophobia, whipping up resentment against Mexicans, Muslims and migrants. His proposals for mass deportations and religious tests are unworkable and contrary to America’s ideals.

Trump has stirred racist sentiments in ways that can’t be erased by his belated and clumsy outreach to African Americans. His attacks on an Indiana-born federal judge of Mexican heritage fit “the textbook definition of a racist comment,” according to House Speaker Paul Ryan, the highest-ranking elected official in the Republican Party. And for five years, Trump fanned the absurd “birther” movement that falsely questioned the legitimacy of the nation’s first black president.

*His business career is checkered.* Trump has built his candidacy on his achievements as a real estate developer and entrepreneur. It’s a shaky scaffold, starting with a 1973 Justice Department suit against Trump and his father for systematically discriminating against blacks in housing rentals. (The Trumps fought the suit but later settled on terms that were viewed as a government victory.) Trump’s companies have had some spectacular financial successes, but this track record is marred by six bankruptcy filings, apparent misuse of the family’s charitable foundation, and allegations by Trump University customers of fraud. A series of investigative articles published by the USA TODAY Network found that Trump has been involved in thousands of lawsuits over the past three decades, including at least 60 that involved small businesses and contract employees who said they were stiffed. So much for being a champion of the little guy.

*He isn’t leveling with the American people.* Is Trump as rich as he says? No one knows, in part because, alone among major party presidential candidates for the past four decades, he refuses to release his tax returns. Nor do we know whether he has paid his fair share of taxes, or the extent of his foreign financial entanglements.

*He speaks recklessly.* In the days after the Republican convention, Trump invited Russian hackers to interfere with an American election by releasing Hillary Clinton’s emails, and he raised the prospect of “Second Amendment people” preventing the Democratic nominee from appointing liberal justices. It’s hard to imagine two more irresponsible statements from one presidential candidate.

*He has coarsened the national dialogue.* Did you ever imagine that a presidential candidate would discuss the size of his genitalia during a nationally televised Republican debate? Neither did we. Did you ever imagine a presidential candidate, one who avoided service in the military, would criticize Gold Star parents who lost a son in Iraq? Neither did we. Did you ever imagine you’d see a presidential candidate mock a disabled reporter? Neither did we. Trump’s inability or unwillingness to ignore criticism raises the specter of a president who, like Richard Nixon, would create enemies’ lists and be consumed with getting even with his critics.

*He’s a serial liar.* Although polls show that Clinton is considered less honest and trustworthy than Trump, it’s not even a close contest. Trump is in a league of his own when it comes to the quality and quantity of his misstatements. When confronted with a falsehood, such as his assertion that he was always against the Iraq War, Trump’s reaction is to use the Big Lie technique of repeating it so often that people begin to believe it.

We are not unmindful of the issues that Trump’s campaign has exploited: the disappearance of working-class jobs; excessive political correctness; the direction of the Supreme Court; urban unrest and street violence; the rise of the Islamic State terrorist group; gridlock in Washington and the influence of moneyed interests. All are legitimate sources of concern.

*Nor does this editorial represent unqualified support for Hillary Clinton*, who has her own flaws (though hers are far less likely to threaten national security or lead to a constitutional crisis). The Editorial Board does not have a consensus for a Clinton endorsement.

Some of us look at her command of the issues, resilience and long record of public service — as first lady, U.S. senator and secretary of State — and believe she’d serve the nation ably as its president.

Other board members have serious reservations about Clinton’s sense of entitlement, her lack of candor and her extreme carelessness in handling classified information.

Where does that leave us? Our bottom-line advice for voters is this: Stay true to your convictions. That might mean a vote for Clinton, the most plausible alternative to keep Trump out of the White House. Or it might mean a third-party candidate. Or a write-in. Or a focus on down-ballot candidates who will serve the nation honestly, try to heal its divisions, and work to solve its problems.

Whatever you do, however, resist the siren song of a dangerous demagogue. By all means vote, just not for Donald Trump.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...-editorial-board-editorials-debates/91295020/

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## anon45

*Trump Foundation lacks the certification required for charities that solicit money*








By David A. Fahrenthold September 29 at 8:25 PM 



Trump directed $2.3 million owed to him to his tax-exempt foundation instead]

*But, as of this week, the Trump Foundation had not obtained the state registration required to ask for donations, according to a spokesman for Schneiderman.

Experts on charity law said they were surprised that Trump’s foundation — given its connections to a wealthy man and his complex corporation — did not register to solicit funds.*

“He’s a billionaire who acts like a thousandaire,” said James J. Fishman, a professor at Pace University’s law school in White Plains, N.Y. He said Trump’s foundation seemed to have made errors, including the lack of proper registration, that were more common among very small family foundations.

“You wouldn’t expect somebody who’s supposed to be sophisticated, and brags about his business prowess, would run his foundation like this,” Fishman said.

The Trump Foundation was established by Trump in 1987 to give away the proceeds of his book “The Art of the Deal.” Trump is still the foundation’s president.

For many years, Trump was the foundation’s sole donor: He gave a total of $5.4 million between 1987 and 2006.

Under state law, the foundation during that period was required to have only the least-demanding kind of certification, referred to as “EPTL,” because it is governed by the Estates, Powers and Trusts Law.

Under that registration, the Trump Foundation filed annual reports with the Internal Revenue Service and the state. But the state did not require an independent audit to ensure that the charity was handling its funds properly.

_[Trump is doing his foundation a favor by ‘storing’ its portrait on golf resort wall, adviser says]_

But starting in the early 2000s, Trump’s foundation began to change. It began to take in donations from other people.

At first, it happened a little bit at a time. In 2004, for instance, an autograph seeker sent $25 to Trump Tower, along with a book he wanted Trump to sign. The book came back signed. The money was deposited in the Trump Foundation.

Then, the gifts began to get larger.

In 2005, Trump’s wife, Melania, was named “Godmother” of a new ship launched by Norwegian Cruise Lines. As part of its agreement with Melania Trump, the cruise lines said, it gave $100,000 to the Trump Foundation. The Trump campaign has not responded to requests for comment on the gift.

In the meantime, Trump himself drastically reduced his gifts. After 2008, tax records show he stopped giving altogether. Since then, according to tax records, the Trump Foundation has received all of its incoming money — more than $4.3 million — from other donors.

Under state law, charities that solicit donations from others in New York must register under a different law, called “7A” for its article heading.






Trump used $258,00 from his charity to settle legal problems]

But, in several cases, The Post’s reporting has indicated that the Trump Foundation or Trump himself did help bring in the money.

In 2011, for instance, Trump was the star of a televised “roast” on Comedy Central in New York. He directed his $400,000 appearance fee to the Donald J. Trump Foundation, according to a Trump campaign staffer.

Between 2011 and 2014, the Trump Foundation also received nearly $1.9 million from a New York businessman named Richard Ebers, who sells high-end tickets and one-of-a-kind experiences to wealthy clients.

Two people familiar with those transactions told The Post that Ebers bought tickets and other goods and services from Trump, and was instructed — by Trump or someone at his company — to pay the Trump Foundation instead.

Trump’s campaign has neither confirmed nor denied The Post’s reporting about the nature of the donations from Ebers. Ebers has declined to comment.

Then, this year, Trump skipped a Republican primary debate in Iowa and instead held a televised fundraiser for veterans’ causes. As part of that effort, he set up a website, donaldtrumpforvets.com, which took donations via credit card — and sent them to the Donald J. Trump Foundation.

“Over 1,670,000 raised online,” said the thank-you message from the Trump Foundation, after The Post made a $10 donation in March.

The most important consequence of not registering under the more rigorous “7A” level was that the Trump Foundation was not required by the state to submit to an annual audit by outside accountants. In such an audit, charity-law experts said, the accountants might have checked the Trump Foundation’s books — comparing its records with its outgoing checks, and asking whether the foundation had engaged in any transactions that benefited Trump or his businesses.

In recent years, The Post has reported, Trump’s foundation does appear to have violated tax laws in several instances.

In 2013, it gave a donation to a political group supporting Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi (R) — despite a ban on nonprofit groups making political gifts. The Trump Foundation then filed an incorrect tax filing, which omitted any mention of that gift, and said incorrectly that the money had gone to a charity in Kansas. Trump paid a $2,500 penalty tax for that political gift this year.

Local Politics Alerts

Breaking news about local government in D.C., Md., Va.

In two other instances, Trump’s foundation has made payments which appeared to help settle legal disputes involving Trump’s for-profit businesses. In 2007, Trump’s foundation paid $100,000 to settle a lawsuit involving his Mar-a-Lago Club in Florida. And in 2012, the foundation paid $158,000 to the charity of a New York man named Martin Greenberg on the day that Greenberg settled a lawsuit against one of Trump’s golf courses.

Those two cases are under investigation by Schneiderman. Just this week, his office requested that a Florida attorney provide a copy of the foundation check that Trump had sent to settle the Mar-a-Lago case.

Trump’s son Eric has his own foundation, also headquartered in New York, which raises money from the public through an annual golf tournament.

Unlike his father’s charity, however, the Eric Trump Foundation has registered to solicit funds in the state and files an annual audit report. The two Trump foundations share an accountant, Donald Bender of the firm WeiserMazars. A spokeswoman for the firm declined to comment on Thursday.



The Washington Post has contacted more than 250 charities with some ties to the GOP nominee in an effort to find proof of the millions he has said he donated. We've been mostly unsuccessful.VIEW GRAPHIC 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ac6a68-8658-11e6-ac72-a29979381495_story.html

The Attorney General of New York could potentially order the Trump foundation to return all the money it received in donations.

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## maximuswarrior

^^ The guy is an absolute farce. Those who support him also belong to the basket of deplorables.


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## T-72M1



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## RabzonKhan

Presidential Debate Cartoons.

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## Taygibay

LOL at the small hands in the temperament cartoon.

Good day, RabzonK, Tay.

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## T-72M1

just one of her long list of foreign policy disasters:





*Egyptian protesters threw tomatoes and shoes at U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's motorcade Sunday and shouted, "Monica, Monica, Monica" ...Clinton met with Morsy on Saturday and urged him to assert the "full authority" of his office.*

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/15/world/africa/egypt-clinton/












good conversation here:

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## cloud4000

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/29/politics/gary-johnson-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/index.html

*Why is Gary Johnson still in the race?*

by Stephen Collinson, Cnn 
 Sept. 30, 2016 
 4 min read 
 original


The gaffes, combined with his failure to make the debate stage and his infinitesimal chance of winning the White House, raise a pressing question: Why is Johnson still in the race?

Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton ribbed Johnson Thursday by pretending to struggle when she was asked to name a world leader she admired. But she made clear her view that she and her Republican counterpart, Donald Trump, are the only viable candidates.

"Either Donald Trump or I will be the President of the United States," she told reporters on her campaign plane, sending a clear warning to disaffected Democrats flirting with Johnson. "People have to look carefully in making their decision. It will be either him or me."


But Johnson isn't going anywhere.

William Weld, Johnson's running mate, said the latest stumble doesn't leave him with any doubts.

"He's a deep person in terms of his thinking and he thinks through things in a way that many other people don't," Weld told CNN's Randi Kaye Thursday on Anderson Cooper 360. "Pop quizzes on television are obviously not his forte but depth of analysis and surprising lines of analysis are his forte. I think he just needs time to expound what he's thinking."

Johnson's decision to stay in the race isn't just an academic question. He and Weld are doing well enough in swing states to pull votes from both Trump and Clinton. In the latest CNN/ORC poll of Colorado — a state Clinton must win and which her campaign thought was already safe — Johnson is polling at 13% among likely voters while Clinton trails Trump 42% to 41%.



*Market for Johnson*


Third party candidates have traditionally had a rough ride in the two-party US election system — none have made a significant national impact since billionaire Ross Perot grabbed 19% of the vote in 1992.

But amid the most polarizing election in years featuring two major party nominees with historic unfavorability ratings, there may be a market for Johnson's character and ideas.


"Something is obviously different this time," said Kyle Saunders, a political analyst at Colorado State University. "Part of it is the unpopularity of the two major party candidates. The strongest of partisans are behaving the way they always behave."

He added: "Those other people who are not the strongest partisans are looking for some other places to cast their ballot."

And the more that the chattering classes disdain Johnson, the more stubborn he seems to get.

"It's been almost 24 hours ... and I still can't come up with a foreign leader I look up to," Johnson tweeted defiantly Thursday.



*'Gotcha-ism at its worst'*


Johnson's campaign manager, Ron Nielson, blasted Johnson's critics as being guilty of "gotcha-ism at its worst" in a Facebook post and said that the oversight just proved that his candidate was just like other Americans.

"Gary Johnson is a real person. A pragmatist and the kind of leader that people can respect and trust," Nielson wrote. "Unfortunately, as most Americans have come to realize, this is not the case with Clinton and Trump."

It was not the first time that a presidential candidate has stumbled in a world leader pop quiz that raised doubts about their credentials to be President. In 1999, then-GOP frontrunner George W. Bush was stumped when asked by a Boston reporter to name the leaders of Chechnya, Taiwan, India and Pakistan.


And gaffes don't seem to derail a candidate in 2016 the way they once did.

After all, Trump has made statements that are far more outrageous than Johnson's comments -- on an almost daily basis -- and he is locked in a tight race with Clinton.

It's debatable whether true Libertarian voters — those who support the party because it favors a disentangling from foreign quagmires and a less robust US global role — are that bothered that their candidate is not deeply acquainted with the details of the Syrian civil war.



*Pressure on Johnson*


But it's not just verbal stumbles that are beginning to build pressure on Johnson.

His political position is also eroding because of his failure to hit the 15% polling threshold needed to muscle his way into the debates between Clinton and Trump.

Back in June, Johnson told _The New Yorker _that if he missed what he called the political "Super Bowl" — "There's no way to win."

There are reasons -- beyond the disdain that a large proportion of the electorate appears to hold for Clinton and Trump -- for Johnson to stay in the race.

First, he appears to have the chance to make tangible progress for the Libertarian Party across the nation. In 2012, Johnson ran for President and won just under 1% of the electoral vote. Even if he only cracks 5% this time, that would represent an undeniable step forward for the party.

But there's a more fundamental reason why Johnson may resist calls to quit.

He explained in an op-ed piece in the New York Times on Wednesday that the American political system, by producing such alienating rivals as Clinton and Trump, has failed. That, he argued, means reformers have no choice but to fight.

"Hyper-partisanship may be entertaining, but it's a terrible way to try to run a country. We're the alternative — and we're the only ticket that offers Americans a chance to find common ground," Johnson wrote.

Johnson also appears to be building a significant base of support among millennial voters -- a demographic that Clinton needs to dominate to make it to the White House -- but which could fuel Libertarian Party growth in future.

A Bloomberg News/Selzer & Co. poll released Monday found Clinton's 10-point advantage among younger voters cut to a statistically insignificant four points when Johnson and Stein are included in the race.

While some Democrats who abhor Clinton might be tempted by a fling with Johnson, he is also providing a refuge with Republicans who cannot stomach Trump. Antipathy for the billionaire prompted the Detroit News Thursday to do something it has never done in its 143 year history -- endorse someone other than the Republican presidential candidate.



*Concern for Democrats*


Still, Johnson's resilience is causing genuine concern for top Democrats.

"There's one message I want to deliver to everybody: If you don't vote, that's a vote for Trump. If you vote for a third-party candidate who's got no chance to win, that's a vote for Trump," President Barack Obama said on the Steve Harvey radio show this week.

Vice presidential nominee Tim Kaine is warning wavering Democrats attracted to Johnson that they risk bringing about an electoral catastrophe similar to the one in Florida in 2000 when Ralph Nader siphoned votes away from Vice President Al Gore. That allowed Bush to claim Florida after the vote count showdown in the US Supreme Court.

"If Gore had been president, we probably wouldn't had a war in Iraq," Kaine told Yahoo News' Katie Couric last week. "Casting a vote, a protest vote, for a third-party candidate that's going to lose may well affect the outcome. It may well lead to a consequence that is deeply, deeply troubling. That's not a speculation, we've seen it in our country's history."

CNN's Eli Watkins contributed to this report.



cloud4000 said:


> http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/29/politics/gary-johnson-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/index.html
> 
> *Why is Gary Johnson still in the race?*
> 
> by Stephen Collinson, Cnn
> Sept. 30, 2016
> 4 min read
> original
> 
> 
> The gaffes, combined with his failure to make the debate stage and his infinitesimal chance of winning the White House, raise a pressing question: Why is Johnson still in the race?
> 
> Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton ribbed Johnson Thursday by pretending to struggle when she was asked to name a world leader she admired. But she made clear her view that she and her Republican counterpart, Donald Trump, are the only viable candidates.
> 
> "Either Donald Trump or I will be the President of the United States," she told reporters on her campaign plane, sending a clear warning to disaffected Democrats flirting with Johnson. "People have to look carefully in making their decision. It will be either him or me."
> 
> 
> But Johnson isn't going anywhere.
> 
> William Weld, Johnson's running mate, said the latest stumble doesn't leave him with any doubts.
> 
> "He's a deep person in terms of his thinking and he thinks through things in a way that many other people don't," Weld told CNN's Randi Kaye Thursday on Anderson Cooper 360. "Pop quizzes on television are obviously not his forte but depth of analysis and surprising lines of analysis are his forte. I think he just needs time to expound what he's thinking."
> 
> Johnson's decision to stay in the race isn't just an academic question. He and Weld are doing well enough in swing states to pull votes from both Trump and Clinton. In the latest CNN/ORC poll of Colorado — a state Clinton must win and which her campaign thought was already safe — Johnson is polling at 13% among likely voters while Clinton trails Trump 42% to 41%.
> 
> 
> 
> *Market for Johnson*
> 
> 
> Third party candidates have traditionally had a rough ride in the two-party US election system — none have made a significant national impact since billionaire Ross Perot grabbed 19% of the vote in 1992.
> 
> But amid the most polarizing election in years featuring two major party nominees with historic unfavorability ratings, there may be a market for Johnson's character and ideas.
> 
> 
> "Something is obviously different this time," said Kyle Saunders, a political analyst at Colorado State University. "Part of it is the unpopularity of the two major party candidates. The strongest of partisans are behaving the way they always behave."
> 
> He added: "Those other people who are not the strongest partisans are looking for some other places to cast their ballot."
> 
> And the more that the chattering classes disdain Johnson, the more stubborn he seems to get.
> 
> "It's been almost 24 hours ... and I still can't come up with a foreign leader I look up to," Johnson tweeted defiantly Thursday.
> 
> 
> 
> *'Gotcha-ism at its worst'*
> 
> 
> Johnson's campaign manager, Ron Nielson, blasted Johnson's critics as being guilty of "gotcha-ism at its worst" in a Facebook post and said that the oversight just proved that his candidate was just like other Americans.
> 
> "Gary Johnson is a real person. A pragmatist and the kind of leader that people can respect and trust," Nielson wrote. "Unfortunately, as most Americans have come to realize, this is not the case with Clinton and Trump."
> 
> It was not the first time that a presidential candidate has stumbled in a world leader pop quiz that raised doubts about their credentials to be President. In 1999, then-GOP frontrunner George W. Bush was stumped when asked by a Boston reporter to name the leaders of Chechnya, Taiwan, India and Pakistan.
> 
> 
> And gaffes don't seem to derail a candidate in 2016 the way they once did.
> 
> After all, Trump has made statements that are far more outrageous than Johnson's comments -- on an almost daily basis -- and he is locked in a tight race with Clinton.
> 
> It's debatable whether true Libertarian voters — those who support the party because it favors a disentangling from foreign quagmires and a less robust US global role — are that bothered that their candidate is not deeply acquainted with the details of the Syrian civil war.
> 
> 
> 
> *Pressure on Johnson*
> 
> 
> But it's not just verbal stumbles that are beginning to build pressure on Johnson.
> 
> His political position is also eroding because of his failure to hit the 15% polling threshold needed to muscle his way into the debates between Clinton and Trump.
> 
> Back in June, Johnson told _The New Yorker _that if he missed what he called the political "Super Bowl" — "There's no way to win."
> 
> There are reasons -- beyond the disdain that a large proportion of the electorate appears to hold for Clinton and Trump -- for Johnson to stay in the race.
> 
> First, he appears to have the chance to make tangible progress for the Libertarian Party across the nation. In 2012, Johnson ran for President and won just under 1% of the electoral vote. Even if he only cracks 5% this time, that would represent an undeniable step forward for the party.
> 
> But there's a more fundamental reason why Johnson may resist calls to quit.
> 
> He explained in an op-ed piece in the New York Times on Wednesday that the American political system, by producing such alienating rivals as Clinton and Trump, has failed. That, he argued, means reformers have no choice but to fight.
> 
> "Hyper-partisanship may be entertaining, but it's a terrible way to try to run a country. We're the alternative — and we're the only ticket that offers Americans a chance to find common ground," Johnson wrote.
> 
> Johnson also appears to be building a significant base of support among millennial voters -- a demographic that Clinton needs to dominate to make it to the White House -- but which could fuel Libertarian Party growth in future.
> 
> A Bloomberg News/Selzer & Co. poll released Monday found Clinton's 10-point advantage among younger voters cut to a statistically insignificant four points when Johnson and Stein are included in the race.
> 
> While some Democrats who abhor Clinton might be tempted by a fling with Johnson, he is also providing a refuge with Republicans who cannot stomach Trump. Antipathy for the billionaire prompted the Detroit News Thursday to do something it has never done in its 143 year history -- endorse someone other than the Republican presidential candidate.
> 
> 
> 
> *Concern for Democrats*
> 
> 
> Still, Johnson's resilience is causing genuine concern for top Democrats.
> 
> "There's one message I want to deliver to everybody: If you don't vote, that's a vote for Trump. If you vote for a third-party candidate who's got no chance to win, that's a vote for Trump," President Barack Obama said on the Steve Harvey radio show this week.
> 
> Vice presidential nominee Tim Kaine is warning wavering Democrats attracted to Johnson that they risk bringing about an electoral catastrophe similar to the one in Florida in 2000 when Ralph Nader siphoned votes away from Vice President Al Gore. That allowed Bush to claim Florida after the vote count showdown in the US Supreme Court.
> 
> "If Gore had been president, we probably wouldn't had a war in Iraq," Kaine told Yahoo News' Katie Couric last week. "Casting a vote, a protest vote, for a third-party candidate that's going to lose may well affect the outcome. It may well lead to a consequence that is deeply, deeply troubling. That's not a speculation, we've seen it in our country's history."
> 
> CNN's Eli Watkins contributed to this report.



First of all, I don't see how Gary Johnson is any less qualified than Trump to be president. Second, why are Democrats so concerned about Johnson? It's more likely he's taking votes away from Trump rather than Clinton.


----------



## CorporateAffairs

"BILL"ary is losing the elections for sure.
Just wait and watch.


----------



## T-72M1

CorporateAffairs said:


> "BILL"ary is losing the elections for sure.
> Just wait and watch.


no way ! 20 years ago he called out a beauty queen for being fat , can you imagine ? 

lol stupid cunts, that's all they have on him, "he racist, he bigoted "


----------



## CorporateAffairs

T-72M1 said:


> no way ! 20 years ago he called out a beauty queen for being fat , can you imagine ?
> 
> lol stupid cunts, that's all they have on him, "he racist, he bigoted "



Trump 47%
Billary 42% is the latest polls.
watch out the October 8th debate.


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## T-72M1

CorporateAffairs said:


> Trump 47%
> Billary 42% is the latest polls.
> watch out the October 8th debate.


link ? I saw this on MSNBC where she got a post debate bump (up 4pts) in FL but they were still all worrying






also, if you don't mind my asking, will you be voting, and what are you seeing around you on the ground in terms of a pro Hillary or pro Trump vibe ? I studied there and have friends and relatives scattered all over and lot of them are talking about a Trump swell, even those in the most unlikeliest places you would imagine, so that, plus the online chatter and all those huge rallies.. Trump is on to something.


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## RabzonKhan

*Steve Case: Why I’m voting for Hillary Clinton*

By Steve Case September 28

_Steve Case, a co-founder of America Online, is chairman and chief executive of Revolution and author of “The Third Wave: An Entrepreneur’s Vision of the Future.”_

I’ve been involved in policy for three decades, since AOL played a pivotal role in getting the nation online in the early days of the Internet. Initially, my focus was on commercializing the Internet, expanding access and putting appropriate rules of the road in place. In the past decade, my focus shifted to encouraging pro-growth policies that foster innovation, generate jobs, help start-ups and create opportunity. I was proud to work with a Democratic president and a Republican House to help get the Jumpstart Our Business Startups (JOBS) Act passed four years ago, and I have spent countless hours meeting with members of both parties on immigration reform, patent reform and pro-start-up economic ideas.

Despite my active engagement on policy, however, I’ve tried to steer clear of politics. I’ve avoided endorsing candidates or making big contributions to campaigns. I’ve wanted to be nonpartisan, able to work with people on both sides of the aisle. Indeed, I’ve been troubled by the hyper-partisanship that has defined our politics of late, and by the resulting gridlock that has set in. *The United States faces many challenges, but in my view our greatest threat may not be external forces but rather our inability to work together to move our country forward.*

So my inclination is to continue to stay out of politics and continue to quietly build working relationships with both Republicans and Democrats. I’d prefer to be positioned as a builder of bridges and consensus.

*But I’ve decided to make an exception this election. I have concluded that I cannot sit on the sidelines this year. At this pivotal time, the choice is too important.

I’ve decided to back Hillary Clinton for president for four reasons.*

*First, I think she’d be better for our economy, especially with respect to innovative technology and start-ups. Donald Trump knows business, but his campaign has been backward-looking on the economy and oddly absent of ideas to spur creation of the jobs of the future. Clinton understands what we need to help start businesses and will invest in education, advanced manufacturing and basic research. She’s not promising a return to a bygone era* — she’s focused on making our economy strong for our children and their children. These forward-leaning policies are essential to ensure continued U.S. economic leadership.

*Second, Clinton is right on immigration. To win in the global economy, our country must win the global battle for talent. Immigrants don’t take U.S. jobs; they create them. More than 40 percent of Fortune 500 companies were started by immigrants or their children: Think how many fewer jobs we’d have in the United States if these entrepreneurs and their parents had been kept out by a wall. Trump’s harsh policies will cost us jobs, and his even harsher rhetoric will chase away immigrant families whose children could grow up to be the next Steve Jobs(whose father was a Syrian refugee) or Sergey Brin (an immigrant himself).*

*Third, while Trump has been largely silent on technology issues facing the new economy, Clinton has put forward an agenda that has won considerable acclaim among technology leaders. She wants to appoint a chief innovation adviser, expand science, technology, engineering and math, or STEM, education and more.* And she shares my view that it’s not enough to support a booming Silicon Valley — we need policies that promote the “rise of the rest”: a spread of start-ups to all parts of our country. We need to level the playing field so anybody, anywhere, has a shot at the American dream.

*Fourth, I agree with Clinton on the need to control the deficit. Despite his populist rhetoric, Trump wants to give huge tax breaks to people like me, the very folks who have benefited greatly from the innovation economy, while many others have been left behind.* *In the process he would *blow up our deficit* and make the economy more unequal. *I agree we need to simplify the tax code, but if we are going to give tax relief, let’s make sure it is in incentives for start-ups to grow and create jobs.

I think I get why Trump has been such a potent political force this year. I am well aware that millions of people are angry about their prospects and fearful that the forces of globalization and digitization have left them behind. I also recognize many are frustrated by politics and feel we need an outsider to shake things up. But I don’t think Trump is the answer, for those people or for the country.

I don’t agree with everything Clinton has said and done. I take issue with some aspects of her platform, and I worry about her inclination to all too often view the government as the solution to problems.* If she becomes president, I’m sure there will be plenty of times I will disagree with her. But for 2016, I believe Hillary Clinton represents the best choice for the United States — and our best hope to remain the most innovative and entrepreneurial nation in the world.* *Read more*


----------



## T-72M1




----------



## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> My friends, all the online polls are garbage, I did a little experiment, I went to:
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/
> 
> http://drudgereport.com/flashnyd.htm
> 
> http://variety.com/2016/biz/news/who-won-the-first-clinton-trump-debate-vote-now-1201870869/
> 
> http://wkrn.com/
> 
> I was able to vote several times with the same IP address, for example, under one minute I was able to vote three times. All you got to do is after you vote press the back button and go to the page again and you can vote again. So please go ahead visit any of the websites and try for yourself.
> 
> @anon45 @F-22Raptor @Nilgiri @Desert Fox @T-72M1 @jha
> 
> I especially request @LA se Karachi @*Syed.Ali.Haider* since you guys a neutral.
> 
> Thanks in advance


See, I told you guys. Now we know how Trump was winning all the so-called online polls.

After Hillary bested him, some of his desperate supporters especially the users of Reddit and 4chan (mostly Alt-right racists) banded together to rig the online polls and I’m not surprised I already knew it, they were totally bogus.

But what surprised me was that Trump himself was bragging about those useless polls, what embarrassment this man is.

Listen to his goofy and embarrassing interview:





Just freaking hilarious: 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/780796008854876160

*4chan and Reddit bombarded debate polls to declare Trump the winner*

You may be getting trolled right now without even knowing it.
Donald Trump supporters artificially manipulated the results of online polls to create a false narrative that the Republican nominee won the first presidential debate on Monday night.

The efforts originated from users of the pro-Trump Reddit community r/The_Donald and 4chan messaged boards, which bombarded around 70 polls, including those launched by _Time,_ _Fortune_, and CNBC. 

There’s an unspoken rule of the internet: Never trust online polls. They’re too easily corruptible.

4chan, the notorious message board, has a long history of botting online competitions. In 2009, users flooded the _Time _100 poll to ensure that the site’s founder, Christopher “moot” Poole, made the cut. In 2012, the pranksters employed JavaScript to vote for North Korean leader Kim Jong-un in _Time_’s annual Person of the Year poll and followed suit the next year with Miley Cyrus and Edward Snowden. 4chan also ensured a school for the deaf won a Taylor Swift concert. Likewise, a Twitter prankster helped send Pitbull to Kodiak, Alaska, as part of an online challenge by Walmart in 2012. 

These types of efforts aren’t always successful, but given the tight turn of online polls during debates, they’re highly susceptible to such pranks. 

In this latest incarnation, multiple Reddit users enlisted the Trump-supporting masses on r/The_Donald, which has over 200,000 subscribers, by posting dozens of online polls that are vulnerable to vote brigading, bots, and other forms of manipulation that make these non-scientific surveys notoriously unreliable. *Read more*


----------



## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> I told you guys


partisan spin and propaganda is all too easy to find online, spl now with just a month to go and with campaigning at fever pitch but did you watch the Molyneux vid ? watch the TYT one too, commonsense real analyses and commentary vs useless MSM hype that makes insecure people feel better.


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## RabzonKhan

T-72M1 said:


> just one of her long list of foreign policy disasters:


I’ve already explained it before on this thread but I’ll go over it again, no problem.

She was in-fact pro-Mubarak and wanted to work with him, she had warned Pres. Obama “it all may work out fine in 25 years, but I think the period between now and then will be quite rocky for the Egyptian people, for the region, and for us.”

Here is one of her statesmen’s that proves she wanted to work with Mubarak:

"Our assessment is that the Egyptian government is stable and is looking for ways to respond to the legitimate needs and interests of the Egyptian people," she added.” *Link*

Pres. Obama even criticized her:

Clinton and Wisner continued to urge caution, but Obama chided them for sending “mixed messages” that undercut the White House line. *Link*



>


So typical, anti-American propaganda.



cloud4000 said:


> First of all, I don't see how Gary Johnson is any less qualified than Trump to be president. Second, why are Democrats so concerned about Johnson? It's more likely he's taking votes away from Trump rather than Clinton.


Of course, Johnson is far better human being than Trump, no doubt about that.

Unfortunately, polls show that Johnson hurts Hillary more than Trump.

Bty, I’m supporting Hillary, but I’m a registered independent.



T-72M1 said:


> partisan spin and propaganda is all too easy to find online, spl now with just a month to go and with campaigning at fever pitch but did you watch the Molyneux vid ? watch the TYT one too, commonsense real analyses and commentary vs *useless MSM hype *that makes insecure people feel better.


Sorry my friend, I don’t buy conspiracy theories.


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## NCC-1701

Instead of fighting over which bandit is "the right one" USA should vote for any 8 year old kid at this point. 

Wouldn't be so different then Trump for all you fans of him out there. He would probably lie a bit less but be just as clueless about what results of his actions.

The interesting thing about this would be that if he chooses to listen to democrats at first he will end up republican when puberty hits and everyone would have their share of actions to enjoy and complain about.

I'll just leave that offer on the table and go for now, good evening lads.


----------



## RabzonKhan

Hillary is a genius, she has made Trump’s life miserable, at 2.30 am in the morning he went on a tweet storm against former Miss Universe Alicia Machado and just three days ago he said, “his temperament is his best asset”, yes Mr. Trump we all can see that. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/781788223055994880


*
2016 Election: Clinton vs. Trump*
This isn't a popularity contest™

This map will track the electoral vote count for the 2016 presidential election based on polling. For more information and individual poll results, see the polling averages page. You can also see how the map has changed over time.

Close states (poll difference between Clinton and Trump averaging 5 points or less) are shown as toss up (tan). Leaning states (5-10 points) are a lighter blue/red. Darker blue/red states are averaging a spread of greater than 10 points. _Last Update: September 29, 2016
_
*270 to win*
_








Welcome to the forum@NCC-1701_


----------



## gambit

RabzonKhan said:


> Hillary is a genius,...


It does not require a genius to provoke The Stump.

Unattributed comments from Chump's advisory staff has it that he is uninterested, practically lazy, in learning the details of complex issues, emotionally undisciplined, and unbelievably thin skinned.

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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> She was in-fact pro-Mubarak and wanted to work with him


it doesn't matter what she wanted, it's what she ended up doing, and that was supporting the terrorist muslim brotherhood and plunging Egypt into chaos, and that is just one, what about Libya, what about supporting the so called rebels in Syria, she wants a no-fly zone (war with Russia) 






you can keep focusing on Donald tweeting mean things about some beauty queen but she is an absolute disaster on foreign policy. also read some rumors that she might appoint Huma Abedin as secretary of state 



RabzonKhan said:


> So typical, anti-American propaganda.


anti Obama administration, not anti US



gambit said:


> unbelievably thin skinned.


considering the amount on negative press he's got all through his campaign, I'd say he is tremendously thick skinned, but he does punch back, even at times when he shouldn't, like with Khizir Khan. Going after this Machado woman won't hurt him, and will be forgotten in a week.

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## gambit

T-72M1 said:


> *considering the amount on negative press he's got all through his campaign, I'd say he is tremendously thick skinned,* but he does punch back, even at times when he shouldn't, like with Khizir Khan. Going after this Machado woman won't hurt him, and will be forgotten in a week.


When I said 'thin skinned', I mean how quickly and easily does The Clump deviate from the path and respond to that stimulus.

The Clump is like a thin skinned dog. The dog have been compared to a two-yr old human child.

Donald Trump seemingly is extremely, not merely 'very', sensitive to any negative criticism leveled at him or any negative perceptions formed about him. His 'thin skinned' responses have been predictable as in 'who started it'. CNN's Anderson Cooper called him on one such event as being like a 12-yr old.

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## T-72M1

gambit said:


> When I said 'thin skinned', I mean how quickly and easily does The Clump deviate from the path and respond to that stimulus.
> 
> The Clump is like a thin skinned dog. The dog have been compared to a two-yr old human child.
> 
> Donald Trump seemingly is extremely, not merely 'very', sensitive to any negative criticism leveled at him or any negative perceptions formed about him. His 'thin skinned' responses have been predictable as in 'who started it'. CNN's Anderson Cooper called him on one such event as being like a 12-yr old.


lol, that's just how he is  

This machado thing was a set up, hillary dropped it at the debate but the press were already waiting in ambush with story after story they had already planned in connivance with her campaign, he hit back. "counter-puncher"

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## gambit

T-72M1 said:


> lol, that's just how he is
> 
> This machado thing was a set up, hillary dropped it at the debate but the press were already waiting in ambush with story after story they had already planned in connivance with her campaign, he hit back. "counter-puncher"


Donald Trump is seemingly incapable of staying focused on anything other than himself.

There are three levels of ( non-marital ) relationships:

- Acquaintances
- Friends
- Close friends

But if you and I are none of the above to each other, then how can you know me and I get to know you ? By way of impressions and perceptions. This is why celebrities employs PR firms and why actors can never stop acting when they are in public.

Between Donald Trump and I, the most valuable items are our images as we presented ourselves to each other. Since Trump is a public figure, his image will be considered more 'valuable' than mine.

I am a stranger to Donald Trump just as much as he is a stranger to me. So for a public figure like Trump when all he has is image to try to convince me to support him, his image is the utmost valuable item in his possession. That is why Trump have been so easily provoked into distraction. A tiny jab at his image and he will dedicate ten-fold of effort to defend that image. His image is so valuable to him that it blinds him to the greater scale of duties and responsibilities that is the US Presidency.

If The Sump is elected, it will not be because the Americans believed he was the ideal person for the job, but it will be because of their ' I am fed up ' response to Hillary Clinton.

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## T-72M1

He is one of a kind, The Donald 



gambit said:


> If The Sump is elected, it will not be because the Americans believed he was the ideal person for the job, but it will be because of their ' I am fed up ' response to Hillary Clinton.


unleash a wrecking ball on D.C, counting on it 

love the homonyms btw 



RabzonKhan said:


> Sorry my friend, I don’t buy conspiracy theories.


none of those have anything to do with conspiracy theories, one should at least be willing to listen to the other side of the story, and the TYT one, those guys are rabidly anti-Trump but at least they're discussing Hillary in an honest manner.

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## Darmashkian

gambit said:


> Donald Trump is seemingly incapable of staying focused on anything other than himself.
> 
> There are three levels of ( non-marital ) relationships:
> 
> - Acquaintances
> - Friends
> - Close friends
> 
> But if you and I are none of the above to each other, then how can you know me and I get to know you ? By way of impressions and perceptions. This is why celebrities employs PR firms and why actors can never stop acting when they are in public.
> 
> Between Donald Trump and I, the most valuable items are our images as we presented ourselves to each other. Since Trump is a public figure, his image will be considered more 'valuable' than mine.
> 
> I am a stranger to Donald Trump just as much as he is a stranger to me. So for a public figure like Trump when all he has is image to try to convince me to support him, his image is the utmost valuable item in his possession. T*hat is why Trump have been so easily provoked into distraction. A tiny jab at his image and he will dedicate ten-fold of effort to defend that image. His image is so valuable to him that it blinds him to the greater scale of duties and responsibilities that is the US Presidency.*
> 
> If The Sump is elected, it will not be because the Americans believed he was the ideal person for the job, but it will be because of their ' I am fed up ' response to Hillary Clinton.



Trump is very impulsive and thin skinned. He has a very high opinion of himself+ a pretty big ego.

I believe that he is pretty over-confident in himself & his "abilities" & sees little interest to learn & understand new stuff/policy/facts in life right now.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The fact that he is close to winning tells us how many Americans hate the "Establishment" & the intensity with which they hate it+the disillusion with both parties.
The Dems made this sentiment worse by nominating Hillary Clinton-one of the ideal representatives of the Liberal Left Establishment & possibly one of the few Democrats who could lose to Donald trump of all people -_-

Who will you be voting for @gambit Sir? Trump,Clinton,Stein or Johnson..
-----------------------------------
@RabzonKhan @Nilgiri  Check these leaked transcripts out:- Hillary speaking about Bernie supporters in private meetings with donors months ago.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/in-l...anders-supporters-living-in-parents-basement/
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-supporters-audio-leak-228997

"Some are new to politics completely. They’re children of the Great Recession. And they are living in their parents’ basement," she said. "They feel they got their education and the jobs that are available to them are not at all what they envisioned for themselves. And they don’t see much of a future.""

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## Nilgiri

Darmashkian said:


> Hillary speaking about Bernie supporters in private meetings with donors months ago.



It pales compared to what she has said in private about Obama way back....and then she ends up working under him.

She is the complete personification of a politician.

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## Darmashkian

Nilgiri said:


> It pales compared to what she has said in private about Obama way back....and then she ends up working under him.
> 
> She is the complete personification of a politician.


What did she say about him??


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## Nilgiri

Darmashkian said:


> What did she say about him??



Well the whole birther movement was started by her team.

There have been rumors she referred to him in racist demeaning ways in private or exploiting inbuilt racism in US (by certain memes etc) to try gain immediate polling points (without coming out officially like she now claims Trump is doing).

She is the prodigy of a former KKK member senator (Robert Byrd - though he did reform) after all. That is somewhat sticky, and would have been hammered into people by now if it was the case for Trump.

She only changed her tune after getting defeated and realising there was no fall back plan other than getting on board with Obama.

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## NCC-1701

RabzonKhan said:


> Welcome to the forum@NCC-1701



Thanks ! And here is a little something:


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## T-72M1

LMAO, watch the speech at around the 20:50 mark, he does a little skit about crooked hillary fainting 

"here's a woman who is supposed to be fighting Putin and cant walk 15 feel to her car, give me a break" 

almost back to his primaries form  

@Nilgiri @Desert Fox

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## T-72M1

tl;dw version: 






he also mocked their marriage, "I don't think she's faithful to Bill, and why should she be ?" or something

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## T-72M1

the jeebis is strong with Trump.

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## RabzonKhan

*








Trump’s leaked returns show his tax fixes would most help — guess who
*
By Ruth Marcus Columnist October 2, 2016

“The only news here,” Donald Trump’s campaign declared in an unsigned statement emailed late Saturday night, “is that the more than 20-year-old alleged tax document was illegally obtained, a further demonstration that The New York Times, like establishment media in general, is an extension of the Clinton Campaign, the Democratic Party and their global special interests.”

No. The news — unrebutted by the Trump campaign as of this writing — is that Trump could have avoided paying federal income taxes for 18 years. Assuming that the claimed losses were legit, this would have been legal. The opportunity for tax avoidance, which could have shielded as much as $50 million a year in Trump income from any federal income tax liability whatsoever, is the result of rules that permitted him to carry forward net operating losses from his businesses 15 years into the future, and to use those losses to wipe out taxable income for three previous years as well.

*It is one thing for us — that is, the rest of us tax-paying chumps — to know, thanks to disclosures required by casino regulators, that there were a few years in which Trump paid no taxes. It is one thing to suspect that there may have been additional no-tax years.*

It is quite another to have documentation that strongly suggests Trump’s tax holiday could have gone on for so long. Perhaps Trump had so much income that he used up his operating loss deductions in less than the allotted time. Or perhaps his businesses generated additional losses that permitted him to pay no federal income taxes for even longer.

*New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) said on “Fox News Sunday” that the report showed Trump’s “genius” and was “actually a very, very good story for Donald Trump.” Uh-huh. If it’s such a good story, why hasn’t Trump been eager to let us see his possibly zero-liability tax returns? Really, why not run a commercial boasting of his tax genius, as he did (“That makes me smart”) during the debate last Monday night?*

*On Sunday morning, Trump tweeted that the story illustrates that “I know our complex tax laws better than anyone who has ever run for president and am the only one who can fix them.” Let’s look at Trump’s “fixes.” Whom would they help most? Donald J. Trump.*

First, he would do away with the estate tax, shielding his purported billions from taxation (although the latest version of his plan would subject some assets to taxes on their appreciated value). Second, he would lower the top income tax rate — if he ever were to pay it — to 33 percent from the current 43-plus percent, including surcharges imposed by the Affordable Care Act, which Trump would also repeal. Third, Trump has suggested he would tax the income of businesses like his at rates as low as 15 percent. (Trump seemed to have dropped that provision from his latest plan, but he mentioned it during the debate.)

Consequently, the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center found, the greatest benefits of Trump’s tax plan would flow to the wealthiest taxpayers. “Trump 3.0 is probably somewhat less regressive than Trump 1.0, but it still is likely to provide outsized benefits to the highest income households,” Howard Gleckman wrote last month on the Tax Policy Center’s TaxVox blog.

*And as to Trump’s claim that because he understands the rigged tax system he alone can fix it — none of Trump’s suggested fixes would affect his ability to avoid paying taxes. *There are sound policy reasons to let businesses deduct operating losses, and to carry over those losses into other years; we want a tax system that does not discourage entrepreneurial risk-taking. But the real estate business, with its highly leveraged investments, huge interest deductions, opportunities for depreciation and tendency to realize most income as capital gains, can particularly benefit from — or manipulate, depending on your perspective — these provisions.

*Trump in charge of the tax code would not be a case of Nixon goes to China. It would be a case of Trump, as always, doing what’s best for Trump.* *Link*




gambit said:


> It does not require a genius to provoke The Stump.
> 
> Unattributed comments from Chump's advisory staff has it that he is uninterested, practically lazy, in learning the details of complex issues, emotionally undisciplined, and unbelievably thin skinned.


I agree, I was being sarcastic, we all know how thin-skinned moron he is.

Once again he proved himself that he is not a presidential material, how easily he took the bait set by Hillary and sunk himself in the gutter for almost a week now, after his disastrous performance in the debate and his 2.30 am tweek-storm against former Miss Universe Machado, he is sliding in the polls nationally and in the key battleground states.

I feel sorry for his campaign manager Kellyanne Conway how hard she worked on him, what a meltdown.


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## jha

What a horrible week Trump just had. All of his own doing. Unless this private speech of Hillary catches on, Chance of his comeback is very thin.


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## RabzonKhan

T-72M1 said:


> it doesn't matter what she wanted, it's what she ended up doing, and that was supporting the terrorist muslim brotherhood and plunging Egypt into chaos, and that is just one,


It does matter, she had the right policy recommendations, unfortunately, Pres. Obama did not accept them and as I explained previously on this thread that you have to understand that Secretary of State is the President’s chief foreign affairs adviser and do not run own foreign policy, but carries out the President’s foreign policy.

In the end it is the President who has to make the decisions and accept the ultimate responsibility for those decisions. 



> what about Libya,


It was an indigenous uprising against the dictator and was supported by the French, British, and the Arab league, in the early stages US had no involvement in it and the Obama administration was very reluctant to get involved.

And guess what, even Trump was criticizing Obama administration for not taking any action, now the hypocrite has been criticizing Hillary for getting involved in Libya, watch the video and enjoy the hypocrisy.


_ In the throes of the __Arab Spring__, __Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi__ was facing a furious revolt by Libyans determined to end his quixotic 42-year rule. The dictator’s forces were approaching Benghazi, the crucible of the rebellion, and threatening a blood bath. France and Britain were urging the United States to join them in a military campaign to halt Colonel Qaddafi’s troops, and now the __Arab League__, too, was calling for action. __Link_





Trump on his video blog, said. “I can’t believe what our country is doing,” “Qaddafi in Libya is killing thousands of people, nobody knows how bad it is, and we’re sitting around we have soldiers all have the Middle East, and we’re not bringing them in to stop this horrible carnage and that’s what it is: It’s a carnage.”

“Libya could end up one of the worst massacres in history, and it would be very easy to topple Qaddafi.

“You talk about things that have happened in history; this could be one of the worst,”


“Now we should go in, we should stop this guy, which would be very easy and very quick. We could do it surgically, stop him from doing it, and save these lives. This is absolutely nuts. We don’t want to get involved and you’re gonna end up with something like you’ve never seen before.”

“the people would take over from Qaddafi eventually and then “they should pay us back” out of appreciation.”

“But we have go in to save these lives; these people are being slaughtered like animals,” he said. “It’s horrible what’s going on; it has to be stopped. We should do on a humanitarian basis, immediately go into Libya, knock this guy out very quickly, very surgically, very effectively, and save the lives.”




> what about supporting the so called rebels in Syria, she wants a no-fly zone (war with Russia)


It's a long story, but the short version is, that she wanted to pursue a very different policy in Syria. The no-fly zone was a good idea, it will save the innocent from being slaughtered. The YouTube clip you posted is Russian propaganda and is not complete. Tomorrow I will post the complete testimony of the general and then we can discuss it from there.




> you can keep focusing on Donald tweeting mean things about some beauty queen but she is an absolute disaster on foreign policy. also read some rumors that she might appoint Huma Abedin as secretary of state


His tweaks 2.30 am in the morning just shows he is not presidential material. Sorry, I don't waste my time on useless rumors.



> anti Obama administration, not anti US


Obama is not running a covert operation in Syria, the US Congress is very much involved in every step, the policy that we are pursuing in Syria is a national policy not a party policy and it is totally BS, Russian/Iranian/Assad propaganda, the truth is, we're the only country that is fighting the Isis on all fronts, in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, and many other fronts.

Time to hit the bed.


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> So typical, anti-American propaganda.


Since when did facts exposing Hillary become "anti-America propaganda" ?? lol

We all know *Hillary is the ISIS Approved candidate* (after all she created ISIS). She has the approval of Omar Mateen's pro-Taliban father:


*Pro-Taliban Orlando Shooters Father Endorses Hillary:*




















@Nilgiri @T-72M1 @C130​

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## F-22Raptor

Trump running out of time as controversies pile up


Donald Trump's tax controversy and his self-destructive lack of discipline threaten to drain the Republican nominee of something he can't afford: time.

With 36 days remaining before Election Day, the real estate mogul's campaign is consumed with the fallout from a New York Times story published over the weekend that found Trump reported a $916 million loss in 1995. That loss could mean Trump went 18 years without paying federal income taxes.

Those findings -- which Trump's campaign isn't disputing but haven't been independently confirmed by CNN -- would be daunting for any presidential candidate to overcome. But they're especially challenging for Trump, who is losing control of the campaign's narrative after a strong September in which he narrowed the race with Hillary Clinton.

In just the past week, Trump delivered an underwhelming debate performance, struggled to recover from it, engaged in a counterproductive feud with a Latina beauty queen, posted early morning Twitter tirades and spewed insinuations without any evidence about Clinton's marriage. The tax story -- which could undermine Trump's image as a successful businessman -- will dominate the next few days.

Time is dwindling for Trump to regain his grip on the campaign's message as Clinton supporters seize on the drama to reinforce their point that he isn't suitable for the presidency.

"The reality is that we are in day six of the meltdown," Clinton supporter Neera Tanden said Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union." "He had a terrible debate performance. Everybody sees that. He sees the state polls moving towards Hillary. Eleven state polls were out this week. She's beating him in every single one. He can't take that. And so this is the latest meltdown."

Of course, the tax story might not emerge as the kind of October surprise-style impact that Democrats hope. It is possible that Trump truly is a Teflon candidate who is so appealing to voters that his actions don't really matter. The GOP nominee's closest surrogates launched a fierce defense of Trump Sunday, portraying him as a master of business who expertly used the tax code to his benefit -- and that of his investors.

In a spirited showdown with CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union," former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani hailed Trump as a "genius."

"He knows how to operate the tax code for the benefit of the people he's serving," Giuliani said.

Speaking on "Fox News Sunday," New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie dismissed the idea that Trump had done anything wrong or that the report would hurt him.

"This is actually a very, very good story for Donald Trump," Christie said.

The impact of the story -- and the swirling controversies that have bubbled up over the past week -- will come into greater focus Monday when Trump returns to the campaign trail in the key swing states of Virginia and Colorado. He largely stuck to his script at the first event of the day in which he discussed cybersecurity.

The tax issue will almost certainly play a significant role in Tuesday's vice presidential debate. If that's the case, it will be a lost opportunity for Trump's running mate, Mike Pence, to present himself to the country as a moderating force on the GOP nominee and someone who can offer a coherent case against a Clinton presidency.

And ahead of the next presidential debate on Sunday, there's no sign Trump will do something to address the lack of focus, preparation and impulse control that helped contribute to Clinton's win at last week's showdown. Trump is now vowing to be nastier than Clinton at the second debate, bringing up Bill Clinton's marital indiscretions. At a wild rally on Saturday night, he even questioned whether Hillary Clinton had been "loyal" to her husband.

Such rhetoric not only calls into question Trump's strategy, it lets Clinton slide on some of her most significant vulnerabilities, such as her email server and questions of trust and honesty.

Trump's approach, and refusal to ignore a trap laid by Clinton in the first debate over his treatment of former Miss Universe contestant Alicia Machado, raises doubt over whether he can make inroads with educated women voters who could be vital to claim must-win states like Pennsylvania.

The freewheeling Trump on display in recent days is particularly notable because he had been doing so well and appeared keen to project more discipline under his retooled campaign team. The GOP nominee effectively wiped out Clinton's lead in national polls after an effective spell through August and mid-September. He was beginning to match her in swing states on the electoral map.

Then, after an encouraging first 30 minutes of the debate, it all went downhill. Trump has not allowed himself to get back on message ever since.

"What happened to him was he was doing well," said Van Jones, a Democrat who is supporting Hillary Clinton, on "State of the Union." "I was terrified 10 days ago this guy was going to be able to be disciplined. Hillary Clinton in 15 minutes said two or three things and threw him off his game and he has not been able to recover since the debate."

The GOP nominee's only route to the White House lies in running the table through the Rust Belt from Pennsylvania, through Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin. That's why the tax story could prove powerful if struggling blue collar workers disaffected with the Democrats and considering Trump are alienated by the revelation -- even if everything was perfectly legal.

The tax issue also allows Democrats to reclaim the narrative about economic equality and fairness that proved so powerful for President Barack Obama against Republican nominee Mitt Romney in 2012. Clinton's primary rival, Bernie Sanders, relished the chance to make that point.

"So, you have got the middle-class people working longer hours for low wages. They pay their taxes. They support their schools. They support their infrastructure. They support the military. But the billionaires, no, they don't have to do that, because they have their friends on Capitol Hill. They pay zero in taxes," Sanders said on "State of the Union." "So, Trump goes around and says, 'hey, I'm worth billions, I'm a successful businessman, but I don't pay any taxes. But, you, you make 15 bucks an hour, you pay the taxes, not me.'"

He added: "That's why people are angry and want real change in this country."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/03/politics/donald-trump-tax/

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## T-72M1

yo dawg, they must have heard some people hate Trump

so CNN did a story about a story in the NY Times.


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## anon45

T-72M1 said:


> yo dawg, they must have heard some people hate Trump
> 
> so CNN did a story about a story in the NY Times.

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## T-72M1

anon45 said:


>


lol 

did you see the SNL thing with Alec Baldwin ?


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## RabzonKhan

Bill Maher rips Trump’s debate performance. I think this one is Bill Maher’s most hilarious on Trump.


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## RabzonKhan

Darmashkian said:


> "Some are new to politics completely. They’re children of the Great Recession. And they are living in their parents’ basement," she said. "They feel they got their education and the jobs that are available to them are not at all what they envisioned for themselves. And they don’t see much of a future.""


Some may find the words living in their “parents basement” offensive, but overall, her comments were sympathetic to their frustration. Even Bernie Sanders says she is absolutely correct.












RabzonKhan said:


> *It's a long story, but the short version is, that she wanted to pursue a very different policy in Syria. The no-fly zone was a good idea, it will save the innocent from being slaughtered. The YouTube clip you posted is Russian propaganda and is not complete. Tomorrow I will post the complete testimony of the general and then we can discuss it from there*.


Here is the link to the complete statement of the general, as you will notice, in the end of his statement, he said “that would not require going to war full-scale, not necessarily”, in other words, he does not think imposing no-fly zone in limited areas will lead to war with Russia. There is a bipartisan support in the U.S. Congress for the no-fly zone. Former CIA director David Petraeus (he’s famous for Anbar awakening, Iraq) also backs the idea. It will not only save the lives of innocent noncombatants, but it can also help in the negotiations for a peaceful settlement of the conflict. *Link*

@T-72M1


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## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> Since when did facts exposing Hillary become "anti-America propaganda" ?? lol
> 
> We all know *Hillary is the ISIS Approved candidate* (after all she created ISIS). She has the approval of Omar Mateen's pro-Taliban father:
> 
> 
> *Pro-Taliban Orlando Shooters Father Endorses Hillary:*
> View attachment 340131
> 
> 
> View attachment 340132
> 
> 
> View attachment 340133
> 
> 
> View attachment 340134
> 
> 
> @Nilgiri @T-72M1 @C130​


Hillary's campaign has already disavows support from him.

And your last picture is a fake, come on, you can do better than that. 


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/10/hillary-clintons-campaign-disavows-support-seddiqu/
Nick Merrill, a Clinton spokesman, told news outlets Tuesday that Mrs. Clinton disagrees with Seddique Mateen’s views and disavows his support.

Mr. Mateen had attended a Clinton rally earlier this week in Kissimmee, even getting into shots so he was visible behind Mrs. Clinton. He later told a local television station he was supporting Mrs. Clinton for president.

Mr. Mateen is the father of Omar Mateen, who opened fire at a gay Orlando nightclub in June, killing 50 people. He’s a fringe political commentator who has posted videos about politics in the Middle East.

Before the disavowal, the Clinton campaign had told ABC News: “The rally was a 3,000-person, open-door event for the public. This individual wasn’t invited as a guest, and the campaign was unaware of his attendance until after the event.”


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## Vassnti

the only goodthing about a trump victory would be following a Rodrigo Duterte / trump 3am twitter fight, the no holds barred cage match of twitter.

But lets face it when you hire Ailes to improve your appeal with women Christie to handle your transition and Rudy to be your spokesman you have dug a hole so deep you can see the stars in daytime.

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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> Here is the link to the complete statement of the general, as you will notice, in the end of his statement, he said “that would not require going to war full-scale, not necessarily”, in other words, he does not think imposing no-fly zone in limited areas will lead to war with Russia. There is a bipartisan support in the U.S. Congress for the no-fly zone. Former CIA director David Petraeus (he’s famous for Anbar awakening, Iraq) also backs the idea. It will not only save the lives of innocent noncombatants, but it can also help in the negotiations for a peaceful settlement of the conflict. *Link*


so you're ok with the idea of either a limited direct war with Russia in the Syrian theatre or a massive ramping up of lethal aid to jihadist proxies to fight Russia ? I think Trump has the right idea, throw the so called rebels under the bus and work with Russia to eliminate the terror groups. There is no peaceful solution to that conflict and I don't see how siding with sunni extremists serves US national interests.



==================================================










*Full Event: Donald Trump Rally in Loveland, CO 10/3/16*


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## RabzonKhan

*WOMP WOMP*
*WikiLeaks Trolls Trump World, Delivers Nothing on Hillary *

*Roger Stone and Alex Jones predicted Julian Assange would end the Clinton campaign on Tuesday with a hyped announcement. October surprise, indeed.*


*SHANE HARRIS *
*10.04.16*

If Hillary Clinton’s die-hard opponents were hoping for an October surprise, they’re going to have to wait.

*A Tuesday morning press conference by WikiLeaks, which Clinton antagonists and conspiracy theorists had hoped would spell the beginning of the end of her presidential campaign, turned out to be a celebration-cum-infomercial for the website, which celebrates its 10th anniversary today and is promoting a new book.*

Either WikiLeaks and its founder, Julian Assange, never really had the goods on Clinton, or Donald Trump and his supporters just got wickedly trolled.

For months, WikiLeaks has been hinting that it would release damaging documents about Clinton in the home stretch of the presidential campaign. The group had posted embarrassing emails stolen by hackers from the Democratic National Committeein July, leaving the world wondering, what else does Assange have in his hard drive?

Egged on by the apparently unfounded claims of Trump adviser Roger Stone that WikiLeaks had a campaign-ending document dump in store, anticipation reached a fever pitch. According to Google, the top trending question about Trump’s opponent on Monday was “What could WikiLeaks have on Clinton?”

Turns out, probably not much. There was no spectacular release of private emails. No bombshells about the Clinton Foundation or brain tumors. Instead, Assange and some of his WikiLeaks colleagues used the press conference to make a pitch for donations and to note the remarkable quantity of the site’s work—10 million documents published, containing more than 10 billion words, which the group claims is “more secret documents than the rest of the world’s media combined.”

With legions of Trump supporters and Clinton haters feeling deceived, Stone claimed that Assange had never promised a big reveal.

"Not at all what he said," Stone wrote in an email to The Daily Beast, adding that journalists had engaged in "wishful thinking."

Stone had already seemed to tamp down expectations ahead of the press conference, which was streamed live at 4 a.m. Eastern time.

“Assange correctly fears for his life because he has the deep secrets of the Deep State and he’s getting ready to spill the beans,” Stone said on _The Alex Jones Show_ on Monday, explaining why Assange must have changed his earlier plans to hold the press conference from the balcony of the Ecuadorian embassy in London, where he lives in a self-imposed exile. WikiLeaks held the event in Berlin instead, and Assange joined via video.

“Bill and Hillary Clinton know that it’s handcuff time and they’re apoplectic,” Stone said.

What now appears more likely is that there was never an October surprise, at least not of the magnitude that Stone had been promising when he tweeted Sunday, “Wednesday@HillaryClinton is done. #Wikileaks.”

Some Clinton opponents took that as gospel, perhaps because Stone has said he’s in contact with Assange, whom he recently described as “my hero.”

WikiLeaks, however, batted down the suggestion that Tuesday was some kind of D-Day.

“Regarding upcoming elections...We hope to be publishing every week for the next 10 weeks,” Assange said, alluding to a more prolonged and less-decisive document drip. Assange said that the “significant” disclosures would cover the U.S. election and Google, but he gave no precise details about when they would occur.

Clinton’s most fervent antagonists were outraged.

“Julian Assange trolling the world is Hillary’s October surprise,” Jones declared in a Tuesday morning tirade. Jones, who had covered the press conference live on his website Infowars, had promised his followers that Assange had a revelation that “could swing the election against Hillary if it catches fire.”

“He was promising this damning evidence and he doesn’t release it now 34 days out and now he’s saying he’ll release it by the end of the year so that smacks of a sell-out,” Jones said. “I think he’s probably out of documents.” 

But some people would still like to know where Assange is getting those documents. At a hearing of the House Judiciary Committee last month, Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) asked FBI Director James Comey whether law-enforcement officials had interviewed Stone “about his communications with Julian Assange or his knowledge of how WikiLeaks got these illegally obtained documents,” referring to the hacked DNC emails.

Comey declined to comment. Nadler also pressed the director on whether the FBI had talked to Stone about his claims to have “knowledge about upcoming leaks of additional illegally hacked documents.”

Comey again declined to comment and wouldn’t say whether or not the FBI had opened an investigation into the matter.

U.S. intelligence officials and computer-security experts suspect that WikiLeaks obtained the DNC emails from a source working on behalf of the Russian government, which is the prime suspect in that hack as well as other intrusions of U.S. political organizations, elected officials, and former government officials.

Democrats have been pressing the FBI to investigate in particular the Trump campaign’s ties to the Russian government and whether Trump is benefiting from the breaches. Republicans, though, have refused to sign on to those inquiries, leaving the Democrats with few tools to pursue an investigation.

_Update, 10/4/16, 11:30 a.m.: This article has been updated with Roger Stone's response. _Link


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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> *WikiLeaks Trolls Trump World, Delivers Nothing on Hillary *


yup

https://defence.pk/threads/livestream-julian-assange-press-conference-and-document-dump.453410/

it was at a decent hour for me but I still wasted some time trying to keep an eye on it, I'll bet you're feeling relieved  

see the last rally ? he just destroyed all of that tax evasion smear by being himself and talking honestly about it lol

they tried so hard to paint him as some sort of failed businessman tax cheat, and he just flies in on his 757 and makes a joke and nobody has a case on him anymore. 

master politician, this man will win in a landslide.

first world victims of globalization





deplorable 'murricans


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## RabzonKhan

Watching VP debate live on C-SPAN. 

https://www.c-span.org/presidentialDebate/?debate=vice


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## T-72M1

http://store.steampowered.com/app/515040/


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## RabzonKhan

It looks like the Libertarian party's VP candidate has indirectly endorsed Hillary.



*VP hopeful Weld is more interested in attacking Trump
*
By Michael Levenson and Frank Phillips GLOBE STAFF OCTOBER 04, 2016

The Libertarian vice presidential candidate, William F. Weld, said Tuesday that he plans to focus exclusively on blasting Donald Trump over the next five weeks, a strategic pivot aimed at denying Trump the White House and giving himself a key role in helping to rebuild the GOP.

Weld’s comments in a Globe interview mark a major shift in his mission since he pledged at the Libertarian convention in May that he would remain a Libertarian for life and would do all he could to help elect his running mate, Gary Johnson, the former Republican governor of New Mexico.

*But things have changed. Johnson has committed several high-profile gaffes in recent weeks that revealed apparent weak spots in his foreign-policy knowledge. Meanwhile, Trump had seemed to be surging back into contention after he fell well behind in the polls in early August.*

While Weld insisted he still supports Johnson, he said he is now interested primarily in blocking Trump from winning the presidency and then potentially working with longtime Republican leaders such as Mitt Romney and Haley Barbour to create a new path for the party after the election.

“Maybe somebody is going to come up with a new playbook, and I don’t know who it’s going to be, but it would be fun to participate,” Weld said in a telephone interview from Atlanta, where he was holding a fund-raiser and rally and planned to watch and tweet about Tuesday night’s vice-presidential debate featuring his major-party rivals, Democrat Tim Kaine and Republican Mike Pence.

*Weld, a former Republican governor of Massachusetts, said he is focusing on Trump because, while he disagrees with Hillary Clinton on fiscal and military issues, Trump’s agenda is so objectionable it’s “in a class by itself.”*

*“I think Mr. Trump’s proposals in the foreign policy area, including nuclear proliferation, tariffs, and free trade, would be so hurtful, domestically and in the world, that he has my full attention,” Weld said.*

He insisted he was not abandoning Johnson, although he signaled that bolting from the Libertarian Party might be a possibility in the future.

“I’m certainly not going to drop them this year,” Weld said.

Weld’s comments seemed sure to reignite suspicions among Libertarians who have questioned his loyalty to the party and have accused him of using the ticket for his own political aims. But Weld’s decision to chart his own course appears to reflect the feeling among his aides, who have privately expressed dismay at Johnson’s flubs on national television, such as when Johnson could not come up with the name of a favorite foreign leader and when he said “What is Aleppo?” when asked about the besieged Syrian city.

Those missteps — in sharp contrast to Weld’s smoother command of foreign affairs — have created some tensions on the ticket. Adding to the conflict are the accolades Weld has recieved from national political commentators who have dubbed him the more substantial and serious candidate, while ridiculing Johnson as a lightweight.

“Unfortunately, if the ticket was flipped, they might have more success,” said Bob Durand, a Weld ally and former Democratic state senator who donated $1,000 to the Libertarian ticket.

At one point, Weld strategists researched Libertarian Party rules to see if it were possible for him to take over the top of the ticket. The rules state the vice presidential nominee automatically assumes the presidential spot if there is a vacancy. But Johnson, peeved at the suggestion, flatly rejected the idea.

Weld insisted he and Johnson remain “happy warriors” and said Johnson is fully supportive of his anti-Trump campaign.

“I have had in mind all along trying to get the Donald into third place, and with some tugging and hauling, we might get there,” Weld said.

*Weld has been much more critical of Trump than of Clinton, whom he has known since the 1970s, when they were young lawyers working for the House committee that investigated President Richard Nixon.

Just last week, for example, Weld irked Johnson supporters when he said on MSNBC that he’s “not sure anybody is more qualified than Hillary Clinton to be president of the United States.”*

Weld, meanwhile, has denounced Trump as a “huckster” with a “screw loose” and has said his plan to deport 11 million illegal immigrants “would remind me of Anne Frank hiding in the attic.”

*Weld’s new plan calls for him to focus his fire on Trump in a handful of red states — as well as in at least one swing state, New Hampshire — where the Libertarians are running strong. Nationally, the ticket is drawing about 7 percent support.*

*Polls show that Johnson and Weld — who were initially thought to appeal mostly to anti-Trump Republicans — may be doing more damage to Clinton by siphoning away young voters.*

*“That’s obviously a concern,” said Mark Robinson, Weld’s friend, former chief of staff, and colleague at the Boston law firm Mintz Levin. “He certainly doesn’t want to be in that position where Trump could win and people would be blaming him.”*

Robinson said it would make sense for Weld to step up his criticism of Trump, particularly after Weld failed to clear the 15 percent polling margin needed to qualify for the debates.

“He’s got to push his message out with more urgency and even more bellicosity than he has before,” Robinson said. “There’s no shortage of material to attack Donald Trump.”


----------



## RabzonKhan

T-72M1 said:


> so you're ok with the idea of either a limited direct war with Russia in the Syrian theatre or a massive ramping up of lethal aid to jihadist proxies to fight Russia ? I think Trump has the right idea, throw the so called rebels under the bus and work with Russia to eliminate the terror groups. There is no peaceful solution to that conflict and I don't see how siding with sunni extremists serves US national interests.


There is not going to be any war, Russians are not crazy to start a war with NATO over Syria, a war that they can never win, remember when the Turks shot down a Russian plane, what was their reaction, yes, some hot air, thats all.

I have told you several times that the US do not support terrorist, you just keep on repeating our enemies propaganda.

Look, the no-fly zone (safe areas) is not a very fantastic idea and needs a lot of work before it can be implemented, but it's worth pursuing to save the life’s of innocent who are being butchered by religious terrorists (ISIS, Al-Nusra) and the Russian/Iranian/ Hezbollah/Assad alliance.

And you know what, even Trump and his VP support it.

Trump’s new plan came in the form of a rebuke of German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who’s decision to allow refugees into the country Trump called “a disgrace.” Instead, he would build a safe zone for refugees, who Trump says all want to go home after the crisis is over anyway. “In Syria, take a big swatch of land, which believe me, you get for the right price, OK? You take a big swatch and you don’t destroy all of Europe.”

“What I like is build a safe zone, it’s here, build a big beautiful safe zone and you have whatever it is so people can live, and they’ll be happier,” *Link*


Transcript of the VP debate:

*Quijano (*Moderator*)*: Governor Pence you had mentioned no-fly zone. Where would you propose setting up a safe zone, specifically? How would you keep it safe?

*Pence*: What we're dealing with is the -- you know there's an old proverb that says the Russian bear never dies, it just hibernates and the truth of the matter is the weak and feckless policy of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama has awakened an aggression in Russia that first appeared few years ago with their move in Georgia, now their move into Crimea, now their move into the wider Middle East and all the while, all we do is fold our arms and say we're not having talks anymore. To answer your question, we just need American strength. We need to -- we need to marshal the resources of our allies and the region and end the immediate. We need to act and act now to get people out of harm's way.

*Quijano*: And exactly how would those safe zones work? How would they remain safe?

*Pence*: The safe zones would have to be -- as the Senator said, there's already a framework for this that's been recognized by the international community, but the United States of America needs to be prepared to work with our allies in the region to create a route for safe passage and then to protect people in those areas, including with the no-fly zone.


And this is what he thinks about Russia: 

*Pence*: Look, this is the alternative universe of Washington, D.C. versus reality. Hillary Clinton said her number one priority was a reset with Russia. That reset resulted in the invasion of Ukraine. After they'd infiltrated with what are called little green men, Russian soldiers that were dressing up like Ukrainian dissidents, and then they moved all the way into Crimea, took over the Crimean peninsula. And Donald Trump knew that happened. He was basically saying that wasn’t going to happen again.

The truth of the matter is, that what you have in the rise of aggressive Russia, which has increased its influence in Iran, that’s now because of this deal on a pathway in the future to obtain a nuclear -- the leading state sponsor of terror in the world in Iran, now has a closer working relationship with Russia"

*Pence*: We're going to rebuild our military. And this whole Putin thing. Look, America is stronger than Russia. Our economy is 16 times larger than the Russian economy. America's political system is superior to the crony corrupt corrupt capital system in Russia in every way. When Donald Trump and I observe that as I've said in Syria, in Iran, in Ukraine, that the small and bullying leader of Russia has been stronger on the world stage than this administration, that's stating painful facts. *Read more*



T-72M1 said:


> see the last rally ? he just destroyed all of that tax evasion smear by being himself and talking honestly about it lol
> 
> they tried so hard to paint him as some sort of failed businessman tax cheat, and he just flies in on his 757 and makes a joke and nobody has a case on him anymore.


Bernie Sanders was right the system is rigged in favor of the filthy rich like Trump. He lost almost $1 billion (smart businessman ), and for almost 18 years has not paid any tax, that is just outrageous, this corrupt system needs to be reformed and I hope Hillary keeps her word.


----------



## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> There is not going to be any war, Russians are not crazy to start a war with NATO over Syria, a war that they can never win, remember when the Turks shot down a Russian plane, what was their reaction, yes, some hot air, thats all.
> 
> I have told you several times that the US do not support terrorist, you just keep on repeating our enemies propaganda.
> 
> Look, the no-fly zone (safe areas) is not a very fantastic idea and needs a lot of work before it can be implemented, but it's worth pursuing to save the life’s of innocent who are being butchered by religious terrorists (ISIS, Al-Nusra) and the Russian/Iranian/ Hezbollah/Assad alliance.
> 
> And you know what, even Trump and his VP support it.
> 
> Trump’s new plan came in the form of a rebuke of German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who’s decision to allow refugees into the country Trump called “a disgrace.” Instead, he would build a safe zone for refugees, who Trump says all want to go home after the crisis is over anyway. “In Syria, take a big swatch of land, which believe me, you get for the right price, OK? You take a big swatch and you don’t destroy all of Europe.”
> 
> “What I like is build a safe zone, it’s here, build a big beautiful safe zone and you have whatever it is so people can live, and they’ll be happier,” *Link*


a 'safe' zone =/= no fly zone, those are very different. The SU 24 incident didn't escalate because it was a one off, the Turks claimed their airspace had been violated etc, not as part of an aggressive strategy to shoot down every thing in the sky. I don't think Washington was too pleased about the prospects of an escalation either and hectic diplomacy ensured that tempers cooled, Erdogan and Putin even met later, and things were left looking ok.

The US does support terrorists because there are no moderate rebels, or not in any significant numbers, in fact the state dept has gone on record and acknowledged that groups they support have now allied with the extremist Islamist militias.

Very simply put, Trump's plan is to try and work _with _Russia and wipe out the terrorists, Hillary's plan is to work with all who _oppose _Russia and the Syrian government (both jihadis and the gulf states that support them, Saudia etc). Those are radically different proposals and approaches to the Syrian crisis.



RabzonKhan said:


> Bernie Sanders was right the system is rigged in favor of the filthy rich like Trump. He lost almost $1 billion (smart businessman ), and for almost 18 years has not paid any tax, that is just outrageous, this corrupt system needs to be reformed and I hope Hillary keeps her word.


They need to talk against Soros and Buffet etc for exploiting that loophole and other existing provisions in the code too, or are they failed businessmen like Trump ? 






======================================================================
*





Full Speech: Donald Trump Rally in Henderson, NV*












*
Full Event: Donald Trump Holds Rally in Reno, NV*


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## Darmashkian

RabzonKhan said:


> Watching VP debate live on C-SPAN.
> 
> https://www.c-span.org/presidentialDebate/?debate=vice


Mike Pence Clearly won this debate.

The Polls,CNN & MSNBC too agreed.

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## cloud4000

Darmashkian said:


> Mike Pence Clearly won this debate.
> 
> The Polls,CNN & MSNBC too agreed.



Watch Trump cede the advantage in the next debate.

I know people are obsessed with who's going to be the next President, but has anyone discussed even a more equally election that is Congress?

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## Solomon2

*Trump supporters turn on man who espouses neo-Nazi views at rally*



By Ashley Killough, CNN



Updated 9:34 PM ET, Wed October 5, 2016


Reno, Nevada (CNN)A man who said he was representing the "alt-right" and embraced the label of "neo-Nazi" was shouted down by Donald Trump supporters at a rally here Wednesday night.

Brady Garrett, 25, was holding up signs during the rally that said "Research Holocaust Revisionism" and "1488," the latter of which is a combination of numbers emblematic of Nazism and white supremacy. He was escorted out of the event by Trump security.

Talking to reporters after the rally, Garrett said the United States needs "to put European Americans first" and disparaged Zionists.

Garrett confirmed that he was a neo-Nazi and disputed facts about the Holocaust. When asked if he thinks espousing such views at a Trump rally could hurt the Republican nominee, he said, "No."

"We need to speak the truth," he said, adding that he doesn't "give a damn" about any of Trump's policies and only supports him because he's "anti-establishment."

Meanwhile, a couple dozen Trump supporters started circling him and yelling out pro-Trump chants to try and drown him out. Others flat-out confronted him and the reporters who were interviewing him.

"Why are you trying to speak for everybody? You go speak for somebody else," Robert Santos or Reno shouted at Garrett.

"The guy's a nut job," Santos later told CNN. Asked if it bothers him that someone like Garrett supports Trump, Santos said, "It bothers me anywhere that they support anybody. It's their right but we don't need to interview that person."

One woman got in front of the cameras.

"I don't care what color people are if they love America," she said. "This guy is an idiot!"

Another woman, Carleen Reich Simko, said "there were so many thousands of other people here without this white supremacy label."

Garrett was wearing a shirt with the label for the State of Jefferson, a secession movement in California.

A disabled veteran, Joe Turner of Milford, California, also identified as a State of Jefferson supporter but said he was "pissed off" at Garrett for wearing that shirt while advocating Nazism at the same time.
"We do not support that garbage at all," Turner said, visibly upset at the incident.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond contributed to this report.

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## T-72M1

@LA se Karachi

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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> Bernie Sanders was right the system is rigged in favor of the filthy rich like Trump. He lost almost $1 billion (smart businessman ), and for almost 18 years has not paid any tax, that is just outrageous,




Again, really?* Bill and Hillary Clinton are filthy rich too (multimillionaires). They shamelessly avoid paying their taxes too.* And then you claim some kind of moral high ground for your candidate on the issue? Please stop*: 
*
_"There aren’t many things upon which Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump agree, especially as they court very different Delaware voters ahead of a primary on Tuesday. But the candidates for president share an affinity for the same nondescript two-storey office building in Wilmington. A building that has become famous for helping tens of thousands of companies avoid hundreds of millions of dollars in tax through the so-called Delaware loophole."_

_"But it’s not just big corporations that have chosen to make 1209 North Orange their official home. 

Both the leading candidates for president – *Hillary Clinton an*d Donald Trump – have companies registered at 1209 North Orange, and have refused to explain why."

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-tax-loophole-1209-north-orange-trump-clinton_



RabzonKhan said:


> this corrupt system needs to be reformed and I hope Hillary keeps her word.




Good luck with that. You didn't seem to care nearly as much when Sanders was running. Her entire political life up to this point suggests exactly the opposite. She's changed her positions on important issues so many times, I've lost count. Clinton has been using the exact same loopholes that she criticizes. Sanders also had some choice words for her:

_While the two leading candidates for the presidency, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, have indeed suggested cosmetic fixes for a situation that only grows more extreme with the passage of time, they have themselves taken advantage of numerous tax “efficiency” strategies that make money evaporate. Of course, you shouldn’t doubt for a second that they’ll change their ways once in the Oval Office.

https://www.thenation.com/article/w...and-hillary-clinton-have-one-thing-in-common/


“I don’t think you are qualified if you supported the Panama free trade agreement, something I very strongly opposed, which has made it easier for wealthy people and corporations all over the world to avoid paying taxes owed to their countries,” Sanders said on Wednesday a rally at Temple University in Pennsylvania.

In 2011, Sanders argued against the agreement on the Senate floor, saying that it would make a “bad situation much worse.” At the time, Clinton advocated for the agreement—an about-face from her opposition to it during her presidential campaign just four years earlier."

http://fortune.com/2016/04/07/sanders-clinton-panama/

_

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## Gandhi G in da house

World would become a very exciting place if Trump wins . I doubt he will win though. Hispanics, Blacks, Asians along with White women are together going to ensure Hillary wins. Still

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP...

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## Darmashkian

cloud4000 said:


> Watch Trump cede the advantage in the next debate.
> 
> I know people are obsessed with who's going to be the next President, but has anyone discussed even a more equally election that is Congress?



I am!! Check my previous posts on this thread

The Repubs will easily retain the House. They won't lose it this time to the Dems.

Regarding the Senate:-
I firmly believe that Mark Kirk will lose his seat to the Dems & that they could narrowly win Wisconsin.

& that Marco Rubio,Mccain,Missouri & the senators from Ohio & PA will definitely win right now.

Regarding the race in Indiana,NH& Nevada. It is still a tossup to me,too close to give it to anyone.



Solomon2 said:


> *Trump supporters turn on man who espouses neo-Nazi views at rally*
> 
> 
> 
> By Ashley Killough, CNN
> 
> 
> 
> Updated 9:34 PM ET, Wed October 5, 2016
> 
> 
> Reno, Nevada (CNN)A man who said he was representing the "alt-right" and embraced the label of "neo-Nazi" was shouted down by Donald Trump supporters at a rally here Wednesday night.
> 
> Brady Garrett, 25, was holding up signs during the rally that said "Research Holocaust Revisionism" and "1488," the latter of which is a combination of numbers emblematic of Nazism and white supremacy. He was escorted out of the event by Trump security.
> 
> Talking to reporters after the rally, Garrett said the United States needs "to put European Americans first" and disparaged Zionists.
> 
> Garrett confirmed that he was a neo-Nazi and disputed facts about the Holocaust. When asked if he thinks espousing such views at a Trump rally could hurt the Republican nominee, he said, "No."
> 
> "We need to speak the truth," he said, adding that he doesn't "give a damn" about any of Trump's policies and only supports him because he's "anti-establishment."
> 
> Meanwhile, a couple dozen Trump supporters started circling him and yelling out pro-Trump chants to try and drown him out. Others flat-out confronted him and the reporters who were interviewing him.
> 
> "Why are you trying to speak for everybody? You go speak for somebody else," Robert Santos or Reno shouted at Garrett.
> 
> "The guy's a nut job," Santos later told CNN. Asked if it bothers him that someone like Garrett supports Trump, Santos said, "It bothers me anywhere that they support anybody. It's their right but we don't need to interview that person."
> 
> One woman got in front of the cameras.
> 
> "I don't care what color people are if they love America," she said. "This guy is an idiot!"
> 
> Another woman, Carleen Reich Simko, said "there were so many thousands of other people here without this white supremacy label."
> 
> Garrett was wearing a shirt with the label for the State of Jefferson, a secession movement in California.
> 
> A disabled veteran, Joe Turner of Milford, California, also identified as a State of Jefferson supporter but said he was "pissed off" at Garrett for wearing that shirt while advocating Nazism at the same time.
> "We do not support that garbage at all," Turner said, visibly upset at the incident.
> 
> CNN's Jeremy Diamond contributed to this report.



Wow... first time I am reading a report where trump supporters in a trump rally are anti-(Something bad).

Usually I read of anti-Hillary,racist,anti-Muslim,anti-Hispanic chants from his rallys...

By the way who are you voting for @Solomon2 ??



RabzonKhan said:


> Bernie Sanders was right the system is rigged in favor of the filthy rich like Trump. He lost almost $1 billion (smart businessman ), and for almost 18 years has not paid any tax, that is just outrageous, this corrupt system needs to be reformed and I hope Hillary keeps her word.



No she won't.

George Soros & almost all the CEOs,Industrialists & the super-rich are behind her this time(Except possibly the fossil fuel related companies). She's getting huge funding which is one reason why she is currently ahead of Trump.

She has to reward them,she will just try some drama/jumla like:- adding her proposals of "Reforming the tax code" to a bill which includes getting more refugees+gun control & when the Repubs reject it,blame them.

She is the "Establishment candidate". Why do you think DT is still doing well against her & stands a chance of winning?

Obama,Bill Clinton,Both the Bushes & Reagan would have easily defeated him(though possibly not Jimmy Carter)


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## F-22Raptor

Why Hillary Clinton could be in even stronger shape than the polls show


Election Day is still a month away, but there are signs that Hillary Clinton might be on stronger footing than even her edge in the polls suggests.

The main reason is that early voting — whether by mail or in person — has already begun in a number of states, and Hillary Clinton’s campaign believes they are winning the early voting battle. On a conference call with journalists Thursday afternoon, Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook said that “states like Nevada, North Carolina, and Florida could be decided before Election Day” based on strong early voting results.

The issue isn’t that a majority of votes will be cast already, but that Clinton can open up an “insurmountable lead” based on high turnout of young and minority voters that, realistically speaking, the Trump campaign cannot overcome.

This could, obviously, just be boasting. But Mook claims, “we are turning out more of our low-propensity voters than the Republicans.” For example, the Clinton campaign says there’s been a 77 percent increase in Florida Hispanics who are requesting a mail ballot and a 79 percent increase in Asian-American requests from that state.


This is playing out in the context of public polling that shows Clinton with a healthy lead and private polling that shows an even healthier one. These indicators suggest the same thing — not only is Clinton ahead, her buffer may be bigger than what current polls show both in terms of public opinion and votes already banked.

A Clinton campaign aide also says that in Iowa so far Democratic returned ballots have exceeded Republican ones three to one, that strongly Democratic Cuyahoga County (Cleveland and environs) accounts for one in six ballot requests received so far in Ohio, and that absentee voting in Northern Virginia has increased at twice the rate of what’s seen in other regions of the state.

*Private polls say Trump is doing worse than it seems*
The basic backdrop for this is, obviously, Trump’s slide in the polls since his first debate with Hillary Clinton. But a deeper reason for Mook’s confidence comes from the fact that, as Jonathan Martin and Alexander Burns reported for the New York Times, “private polling by both parties shows an even more precipitous drop” for Trump.


Savvy readers know better than to trust selectively leaked private partisan polls over the full suite of information available to the public.

The reality, however, is that campaign polling and media polling methodologies are increasingly diverging, and private polls increasingly have an edge in terms of accuracy. Too few people pick up their phones and talk to pollsters these days to get a statistically valid sample by calling random people. Pollsters make the randomized phone calls, of course, but then they need to do a _lot_ of statistical interpolation to make their phone calls match the overall population.

A modern campaign data operation, by contrast, starts with actual administrative voter lists and then layers upon hundreds of additional layers of commercially available data to build detailed profiles of individuals.

One difference this makes is that if normally Republican-voting members in normally Republican-voting demographic groups — college educated white women, say — become disgruntled with Trump and consequently disinclined to answer phone polls, their place will be filled in a media pollsters’ model with demographically similar people who are still on the Trump Train.

That kind of interpolation could end up masking declines in Trump’s support from key groups.

Alternatively, of course, that kind of thinking could be nothing more than wishful thinking from Clinton supporters. But according to the Times, interviews with “a dozen strategists from both parties” support the view that Trump’s numbers have fallen faster with “independent voters, moderate Republicans and women” than we are yet seeing in the public polls.

*Clinton’s field advantage*
Ultimately, nobody will know until the votes are cast.

But Mook’s emphasis on early voting aligns with the reality that Clinton is running a vast campaign based on a cutting-edge data and field operations, while Trump largely is not. Academic research by Ryan Enos and Anthony Fowler indicates that targeted field operations in key swing states boost voter participation by about 7 or 8 percentage points. In a typical election, of course, both sides mount comparable field efforts and the net impact ends up canceling out.

In terms of early voting so far, that may not be the case. Kyle Cheney and Katie Glueck of Politico reported on Tuesday that “Trump’s haphazard campaign, ignoring standard practice, relies largely on mining his boisterous battleground-state rallies to amass his early-vote totals.”

The Clinton campaign, by contrast, has an effort that is “more methodical and traditional, hinging on an extensive field organization to drive its advance voting strategy.”

Mook’s key claim is that so far it is working, with the Clinton campaign succeeding in driving its supporters from lower-turnout demographics to the polls while Republicans are struggling. And what’s clear from all sources — public and private — is that right now Trump is behind in the polls in key states. And with voting already underway Trump has less time to make up lost ground than you might think.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/7/13189344/clinton-polls-winning

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## RabzonKhan

*

TRUMP IN DEEP TROUBLE ON EVE OF SECOND DEBATE

By John Cassidy
*
If the Presidential election continues on its current course, historians may well look back on the third weekend in September as the moment when Donald Trump came closest to the White House, while millions of Americans reached for the Xanax. *That Saturday, Hillary Clinton’s lead over Trump narrowed to one percentage point in the widely watched Real Clear Politics poll average, which combines the results from a number of surveys. A day later, Clinton’s lead fell to 0.9 percentage points.

Three weeks later, the numbers look very different. On Friday, according to the Real Clear Politics poll average, the gap between the two candidates was 4.5 percentage points. (Clinton stood at 48.3 per cent; Trump was at 43.8 per cent.) In the Huffington Post’s poll average, which covers a slightly different selection of polls from the Real Clear Politics survey, Clinton’s lead was even bigger: 6.5 percentage points. (Clinton at 48.0 per cent, Trump at 41.5 per cent.)*

This shift in the national polls has calmed the nerves of many Democrats. Perhaps more important, the numbers in many of the key battleground states have also moved against Trump, making it considerably less likely that he will be able to reach the necessary two hundred and seventy votes in the Electoral College. Back in late September, the New York billionaire was narrowly ahead in Florida, North Carolina, and Ohio, three must-win states for him. But recent state polls indicate that Clinton is now leading in Florida and North Carolina. The state-poll averages do have Trump still slightly ahead in Ohio, but the most two recent surveys, from Public Policy Polling and Monmouth University, showed Clinton with a narrow lead there, too.

Trump supporters would rightly point out that the race is still tight in all three of these states. According to the Real Clear Politics poll averages, Clinton leads by 2.4 percentage points in Florida and 2.6 percentage points in North Carolina. But the trend is clearly running in the Democrat’s direction. *And, even if Trump turned things around Florida and North Carolina, won Ohio, and carried all the other states that are currently leaning Republican, it would only take him to two hundred and fifty-nine votes in the Electoral College. To get to two hundred and seventy, he’d also have to pick up at least one big Democrat-leaning state, such as Michigan or Pennsylvania, or two or three smaller ones, such as Maine, New Hampshire, and Nevada.*

Right now, that looks like a huge ask. The latest poll from Michigan, which was carried out for the Detroit _Free Press_, showed Clinton extending her lead to eleven points. In Pennsylvania, where both candidates have been campaigning hard, two polls carried out during the past week showed Clinton with leads of nine points and ten points respectively. In the two New England battleground states, Clinton has been ahead for months, and, according to the Huffington Post’s poll average, which includes all the latest polls, she still leads by about seven points in Maine and about five points in New Hampshire. The race in Nevada appears to be much closer: the poll averages show a virtual tie. But Nevada only has six votes in the Electoral College.

Some of the improvement in Clinton’s position can surely be put down to her resounding victory over Trump in the first Presidential debate, on September 26th. But that’s not the entire explanation. Even before Clinton’s post-debate bounce started to show up in the national polls, her lead was increasing. On September 28th, for instance, when the polls still largely reflected survey work carried out before the debate, the gap between the two candidates in the Real Clear Politics poll average was back to three per cent.

That means Clinton has now had three good weeks in a row, during which Trump has been falling further behind. One factor, surely, was last month’s bombings in New York and New Jersey, which took media attention off Clinton’s pneumonia and her “basket of deplorables” comment. In addition, I suspect the poll trends also reflect a negative feedback effect of the kind I wrote about last month: as Trump surged in the polls, some independents and Bernie Sanders Democrats decided it was time to rally behind his opponent.

Clinton’s strong performance in the debate enabled her to build on a rising trend. You can see that in the head-to-head polls and also in her “favorable”/“unfavorable” ratings, which a number of pollsters track regularly. Real Clear Politics keeps a running average of these figures, too. *It shows that between September 26th, the day of the debate, and Friday, October 6th, Clinton’s favorable rating rose from 40.3 per cent to 43.8 per cent, and her unfavorable rating fell from 55.1 per cent to 52.9 per cent.

Yes, these numbers indicate that a majority of voters still dislike Clinton. But her net favorability rating has risen by 4.5 points, to minus 9.1 points, in a short time. And, crucially, she is doing significantly better than Trump, whose net favorability rating on Friday was minus twenty points, the same as it was three weeks ago. None of this means that Trump can’t win. But it does imply he is in deep trouble.*

mistaken.

The pollsters could goof up in this election, too, but there is little indication in the voter-registration numbers or the early-voting figures that they are missing something big. Indeed, it is also possible that the polls are _underestimating_ Clinton’s lead. Writing in the _Wall Street Journal_ on Thursday, Karl Rove pointed out that, on the day before the 2012 election, the Real Clear Politics poll average showed President Obama leading Mitt Romney by just 0.7 percentage points. When the actual votes were counted, it turned out that Obama had won by 3.9 percentage points, a discrepancy Rove attributed to the Democrats’ superior get-out-the-vote operation. This year, with Trump relying largely on the Republican National Committee for his ground game, something similar could happen.

That’s speculation. But in any case, with the polls and the electoral map moving against him, Trump doesn’t have much time left to turn things around. He desperately needs a better performance in Sunday’s debate. And even that might not be enough to save him.


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## Russell

Trump continuing to sabotage his own campaign...video released today is going to cost him even more female and independent voters.

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> this corrupt system needs to be reformed and I hope Hillary keeps her word.



 too bad Hillary is taking money from the very rich people, including Donald Trump (in the past).

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## Śakra

Donald is a gross creepy slob.

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## F-22Raptor

Russell said:


> Trump continuing to sabotage his own campaign...video released today is going to cost him even more female and independent voters.



This is devastating for Trump. His campaign was already on life support, an this is likely the final nail in the coffin for him. I'll be shocked if he recovers from this.

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## Russell

F-22Raptor said:


> This is devastating for Trump. His campaign was already on life support, an this is likely the final nail in the coffin for him. I'll be shocked if he recovers from this.


Republicans jumping ship left and right....waiting on his video taped statement.

His apology will simply not be enough.

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## F-22Raptor

Russell said:


> Republicans jumping ship left and right....waiting on his video taped statement.
> 
> His apology will simply not be enough.



An with the second debate in just 2 days, this couldn't come at a worse time for him. Trump essentially condoned the sexual assault of women. I imagine Trumps advisers are ready to jump off a cliff right now.

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## Russell

F-22Raptor said:


> An with the second debate in just 2 days, this couldn't come at a worse time for him. Trump essentially condoned the sexual assault of women. I imagine Trumps advisers are ready to jump off a cliff right now.


Not just condoned...he admitted doing it himself :facepalm:

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## T-72M1

probably won't hurt him, a womanizing/lewd in private Trump , who exactly is this supposed to surprise ? 

looks like its going to get very ugly  


sleazy tidbits and gossips aside, a bit more substantive 'dirt'

https://theintercept.com/2016/10/07...aid-speeches-to-goldman-sachs-finally-leaked/
http://time.com/4523749/hillary-clinton-wikileaks-leaked-emails-john-podesta/
http://www.wsj.com/articles/wikileaks-stirs-up-trouble-for-hillary-clinton-1475891284






looks like Assange finally came good, need more dumps though, specifically, the stuff he said would destroy her campaign.


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## Russell

Absolutely no one is talking about the email dump...Assange is sitting in his room crying 

The Hillary machine has used this perfectly...even Faux News is pretending like they care about the hurricane to try to hide the Trump stuff.

Hannity had a meltdown on live TV.

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## T-72M1

Russell said:


> Absolutely no one is talking about the email dump...Assange is sitting in his room crying
> 
> The Hillary machine has used this perfectly...even Faux News is pretending like they care about the hurricane to try to hide the Trump stuff.
> 
> Hannity had a meltdown on live TV.


tomorrow morning's news cycle in the US might pick it up, this is like a 50 - 50 hit. 

PussyGrabber vs Mrs. “I’m kind of far removed” (from the middle class.) 

less than a month, should be something major every other day from here on, what fun.


----------



## Russell

T-72M1 said:


> tomorrow morning's news cycle in the US might pick it up, this is like a 50 - 50 hit.
> 
> PussyGrabber vs Mrs. “I’m kind of far removed” (from the middle class.)
> 
> less than a month, should be something major every other day from here on, what fun.


Absolutely not. This is going to continue right up until the debate and then we'll get flooded with the post debate narrative.

As you can Republican senators and reps are dumping Trump and that'll continue to be the news....rats leaving a sinking ship.

Not to mention there are apparently more videos of Trump.


----------



## T-72M1

Russell said:


> Absolutely not. This is going to continue right up until the debate and then we'll get flooded with the post debate narrative.
> 
> As you can Republican senators and reps are dumping Trump and that'll continue to be the news....rats leaving a sinking ship.
> 
> Not to mention there are apparently more videos of Trump.


this kind of stuff would have sunk him long back in the primaries if it had to, won't stick.


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## Zabaniyah

That's it. The Republican party is finished.


----------



## boomslang

T-72M1 said:


> ...=============================================
> 
> where the hell are @Syed.Ali.Haider @boomslang @C130 etc




I was banned, like you are now. It doesn't matter. After this last video, Trump is done. Killary can start moving into the White House right now. Killary was SOOOO beatable but Trump just fucked up at every turn.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Desert Fox

Russell said:


> Trump continuing to sabotage his own campaign...video released today is going to cost him even more female and independent voters.





F-22Raptor said:


> This is devastating for Trump. His campaign was already on life support, an this is likely the final nail in the coffin for him. I'll be shocked if he recovers from this.


So Trump spoke like the average American guys do in private gatherings, so what?? Lol. Most people will laugh at best and think "like really? This is news?" This isn't the 1800's Victorian England where people would find this shocking  This is 2016 America.

This will barely cause a dent to his campaign. 

Meanwhile _*NEWS THAT ACTUALLY MATTERS*_: lets see what crooked Hillary's been cooking in the recent Wikileaks release:


*ON HER DREAM OF CREATING A EUROPEAN UNION-ESQUE ARRANGEMENT THROUGHOUT THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE:*

“My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future with energy that is as green and sustainable as we can get it, powering growth and opportunity for every person in the hemisphere.” [05162013 Remarks to Banco Itau.doc, p. 28]

*ON EXPANDING NEO-LIBERAL CAPITALIST SYSTEM ENCOMPASSING ALL OF THE AMERICAS:*

“I think we have to have a concerted plan to increase trade already under the current circumstances, you know, that Inter-American Development Bank figure is pretty surprising. There is so much more we can do, there is a lot of low hanging fruit but businesses on both sides have to make it a priority and it’s not for governments to do but governments can either make it easy or make it hard and we have to resist, protectionism, other kinds of barriers to market access and to trade and I would like to see this get much more attention and be not just a policy for a year under president X or president Y but a consistent one.” [05162013 Remarks to Banco Itau.doc, p. 32]

*USA ORIGINALLY SUPPORTED MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD IN EGYPT, THEN SUPPORTED MILITARY COUP WHEN ISRAEL PERCEIVED THEM AS A THREAT:*

“But, I have to say I was not convincing. I did not persuade the young people to do that and you know what happened. *The Muslim Brotherhood won. In the beginning we said they won legitimately. We worked with them. We tried to persuade them, starting with President Morsi, to run an inclusive government, to make every Egyptian feel that they had a place at the table. They became much more interested in promoting their ideology, that produced a reaction.* The military took over and now a general has become president. So those were very hard decisions to try to figure out how to manage on all of these fronts. But, the point I hope you take away is change for the sake of change is not going to make the difference you hope for unless you are prepared and organized to follow up on that change and politics, small P politics, is the way people in democracies work together to try to institutionalize the changes that you are seeking and I don’t know if we’re going to see any renewal of that kind of hopefulness in the Arab world for quite some time, because of the problems that arose as a result of overthrowing existing regimes without anything to fill the vacuum.” [Remarks to Fundacion TelMex, 9/5/14]

“Certainly Egypt posed very direct threats to Israel because of the, number one, instability and then number two, the unpredictability of the Morsi government. That also posed in the eyes of the Saudis and the Emiratis a threat to them because they view the organized efforts for political Islam to be threatening their status quo. We also were very concerned about the breeding of instability in terrorist havens in the Sinai which could be used just as the FATA between Pakistan and Afghanistan had been used by Al-Qaeda as launching sites for extremist attacks against Egypt, against Israel, against Jordan and further afield in the Gulf.” [Jewish United Fund Of Metropolitan Chicago Vanguard Luncheon, 10/28/13]

“But they see the current situation as one that they have to help the Egyptian military manage and control. So it’s not that we take a position of doing nothing. It’s that right now we are continuing most of the aid to the Egyptian military. We are continuing the kind of ongoing contacts that we’ve done for decades. We are working with the Israelis who are reestablishing their connections and on an ongoing, consultative basis working to keep the Sinai under control and try to head off other threats. But Egypt is going to go through its own turmoil for a while, and they need a leader and a leadership ethos that will actually try and improve the lives of Egyptian people.” [2014 Jewish United Fund Advance & Major Gifts Dinner, 10/28/13]

*TELLS AUDIENCE CHICAGO MAYOR AND HARD LINE ZIONIST JEW RAHM EMMANUEL HAS “PROBABLY SURVEILLANCE WATCHING WHO DOES AND DOESN’T GIVE MONEY”:*

“Thank you so much. I’m deeply honored to receive this award from such an esteemed organization. I know that the mayor is rushing off to his next assigned event and responsibility. I just want to thank him and tell you that reliving a lot of my experiences with Rahm makes me once again realize how much you want him in any foxhole you end up in, maybe not at Buckingham Palace for tea with the Queen, but for any other challenging situation, he always had my back. He always had both President Clinton’s and President Obama’s back, and now he’s got Chicago’s back. So if I were you, I would find some way to go spend some money because he probably has surveillance watching to determine who does and who doesn’t.” [American Society for Clinical Pathology Annual Meeting, 9/18/13]

*SUPPORTS FRACKING (an important cause staunchly opposed by Left-wing and environmentalist groups ):*

CLINTON: So I am an all-in kind of person, all-of-the-above kind of person when it comes to America’s energy and environmental future. And I would like us to get over the political divide and put our heads together and figure out how we can be really, really smart about doing this. I mean, fracking was developed at the Department of Energy. I mean, the whole idea of how fracking came to be available in the marketplace is because of research done by our government. And I’ve promoted fracking in other places around the world. Because when you look at the strangle-hold that energy has on so many countries and the decisions that they make, it would be in America’s interest to make even more countries more energy self-sufficient. So I think we have to go at this in a smart, environmentally conscious way, pursuing a clean-energy alternative agenda while we also promote the advantages that are going to come to us, especially in manufacturing, because we’re now going to produce more oil and gas. And that’s what I would like to see us talking about instead of standing on two sides of the divide and not working to try to minimize the damage and maximize the upside. [Clinton Speech For Deutsche Bank, 4/24/13]

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thanks very much. I’m wondering if you can comment on the issues at stake in the evaluation of the Keystone XL pipeline and maybe more broadly talk about the role that energy and the environment both play in our foreign policy. SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I can talk generally. I can’t specifically, because the State Department makes the decision, recommendation about Keystone pipeline, and it’s not appropriate for me to comment on the merits or on the ultimate decision. But it is something that I care deeply about, energy and the environment, because I think we have a fabulous opportunity to get both right in this country. As Secretary of State I created the first Energy Bureau, because, as you know, we’re on the cusp of being energy self-sufficient. And that is a big change from where we were a decade ago. The ability to extract both gas and oil from previously used places that didn’t seem to have much more to offer, but now the technology gives us the chance to go in and recover oil and gas; or with the new technology known as fracking, we are truly on a path — and it’s not just United States; it’s all of North America — that will be net energy exporters assuming we do it right. And doing it right means not sacrificing the environment in ways that are preventable. There will always be some environmental cost in extracting hydrocarbons, rare earth minerals, you name it from both the earth and the oceans. But we ought to be smart enough, and we ought to be committed enough to ensure that we set the example for the world about how to do it with the minimal amount of environmental damage. I think that’s all within our reach. And I believe that we can afford to do it, and I think we have an obligation to do it. So I want to see us become the number one oil and gas producer while we also pursue a clean-energy agenda at the same time. I don’t think it has to be either or. I think it’s a mistake to think it does. I happen to think we are missing a great opportunity by not dealing with climate change, not just because it’s a rolling crisis that we’re dealing with, but also I think there’s a lot of money to be made from pioneering and manufacturing and exporting and creating a global market for how we deal with climate change. [Clinton Speech For Deutsche Bank, 4/24/13]

*ON INDISCRIMINATE GOVERNMENT SPYING ON AMERICANS:*

SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, we do better. I mean, that’s the problem. We have a lot of information. And not the kind of information that most of our citizens are worried about because I really have no evidence and have no reason to believe that, you know, we’ve got people listening to American citizens’ conversations. But the collection of the metadata is something that has proven to be very useful.” [Goldman Sachs Builders And Innovators Summit, 10/29/13]

*SUPPORTS EXPANDING H1-B VISAS TO PUT MORE AMERICANS OUT OF WORK:*

PRESIDENT JACKSON: Thank you. You know, at SHRM, as HR professionals, we are actively engaged in this debate over comprehensive immigration reform. We see reform as a way to address the projected skills gap that we see in the U.S. Now, your voting record in the Senate indicates a strong support for expanding the H-1B Guest Worker Visa Program. What are your thoughts on the immigration reform debate, and where do you think it’s headed? MS. HILLARY CLINTON: Well, I hope it’s heading toward a new law that will resolve a lot of these hard issues about comprehensive immigration reform. I’m very hopeful that the debate now going on in the Senate that they’ll reach a bipartisan agreement, pass a bill and then send it to the House to consider it, and hopefully, the House will pass a comparable bill and then we can work out the differences. It’s way overdue. I mean, if you look at what the core of the debate is, yes, we need to make sure we have border security. That’s not only about immigration. That’s about terrorism, criminal activities, trafficking drugs, people, guns. I mean, there’s many reasons to have effective border security in addition to the immigration reasons. We have to do more to bring people out of the shadows, hold employers accountable if they continue to employ people that they know are illegal and put people who are willing to pay their dues literally and figuratively in line for legal status. So I think the bill that the four Republicans and four Democrats came up with has the core principles that we need to enact. I’m sure there will be a lot of variations on amendments, but if the core stays the same, I think that’s important. Now, specifically about H-1B visas, you know, we give so many more student visas than we give H-1B visas. We educate people in our institutions, and then we don’t let them stay in our country and work for you and work on behalf of improving our productivity and dealing with our problems. So I know you have advocated strongly for a lot of these reforms. I support what you’re trying to do because I think our economic recovery is to some extent fueled by a steady stream of well-qualified, productive workers coming out of our own institutions, native born, legally here and those who have something to contribute who are going to help us continue to grow our economy.” [Hillary Clinton remarks at SHRRM Chicago, 6/15/13]

*USA DOESN’T ATTACK IRAN BECAUSE THE IRANIANS ARE TOO SMART AND TOO STRONG:*

“MS. CLINTON: They wanted—yeah. But I mean, people will fight for themselves. They will fight for themselves, but this is fighting for a program. I mean, the calculation is exactly as you described it. It’s a very hard one, which is why when people just pontificate that, you know, we have no choice. We have to bomb the facilities. They act as though there would be no consequences either predicted or unpredicted. Of course there would be, and you already are dealing with a regime that is the principal funder and supplier of terrorism in the world today” [ Speech to Goldman Sachs, 2013 IBD Ceo Annual Conference, 6/4/13]

“Now, on the other side, there are those who certainly think it would be very bad. It might cause a reaction on the part of certain elements within Iran that could become uncontrollable. It could be a signal to a lot of the neighbors to take action against Iranian assets. So this is not a very easy message to convey in a way that it causes the kind of reaction that one would want from inside Iran.” [2014 Jewish United Fund Advance & Major Gifts Dinner, 10/28/13]

“So along comes Rouhani who was a nuclear negotiator about ten or so years ago for Iran. He’s on a big charm offensive, the new foreign minister is on a big charm offensive. How far he will be able to go given the Supreme Leader and the Revolutionary Guard is not clear yet, but it’s very important for us to test that. It’s very important for us to engage in the diplomacy that was created by the coercive sanctions for two reasons: First, to really explore in depth what they are willing to do and in return for what; and second, to keep our International Sanctions Coalition together because if the Iranians are on their charm offensive, it’s not just with us, it’s with the Europeans, it’s with the Asians, it’s certainly with the Russians and the Chinese. And if they are in a position to be able to say, ‘Look, we were prepared to answer a lot of the concerns of the United States and the West, but, of course, the United States wouldn’t negotiate with us so we feel like we’ve done our part so why don’t you buy some more oil and gas,’ I mean, that’s what we have to try to avoid to try to keep them in as tight a position as possible while we test the diplomacy.” [Jewish United Fund Of Metropolitan Chicago Vanguard Luncheon, 10/28/13]

*ISRAEL AND SAUDI ARABIA HAVE BECOME CLOSE ALLIES AGAINST IRAN:*

“So I think that there’s a—and there’s a constant effort on the part of the leadership of Israel to make it clear that, you know, they are not going to abide the nuclear program or the terrorist program and to send those messages every day in every way, publicly and privately, to try to influence not just the behavior inside Iran, but increasingly, the larger gulf. I mean, one of the—one of the developments of the Arab spring is that you now have Israel and Saudi Arabia more closely aligned in their foreign policy. MR. ELLIOTT BADZIN: Who would have thunk it? SECRETARY HILLARY CLINTON: Who would have? And not only about Iran, which they—they both put at the top of their list of concerns, but about Egypt and about Syria and about a lot of other things.” [Beth El Synagogue’s 13th National Speaker Series, 10/27/13]

*CLINTON PRAISES THE IDEA OF LYING TO THE PUBLIC WHILE DOING BACKROOM POLITICAL DEALS IN PRIVATE:*

CLINTON: You just have to sort of figure out how to — getting back to that word, “balance” — how to balance the public and the private efforts that are necessary to be successful, politically, and that’s not just a comment about today. That, I think, has probably been true for all of our history, and if you saw the Spielberg movie, Lincoln, and how he was maneuvering and working to get the 13th Amendment passed, and he called one of my favorite predecessors, Secretary Seward, who had been the governor and senator from New York, ran against Lincoln for president, and he told Seward, I need your help to get this done. And Seward called some of his lobbyist friends who knew how to make a deal, and they just kept going at it. I mean, politics is like sausage being made. It is unsavory, and it always has been that way, but we usually end up where we need to be. But if everybody’s watching, you know, all of the back room discussions and the deals, you know, then people get a little nervous, to say the least. So, you need both a public and a private position. And finally, I think — I believe in evidence-based decision making. I want to know what the facts are. I mean, it’s like when you guys go into some kind of a deal, you know, are you going to do that development or not, are you going to do that renovation or not, you know, you look at the numbers. You try to figure out what’s going to work and what’s not going to work. [Clinton Speech For National Multi-Housing Council, 4/24/13]

*ADMITS FREE TRADE SHE SUPPORTS ENRICHES WALL STREET WHILE DESTROYING JOBS:*

“But certainly increasing productivity, fewer jobs is the simplest, greater competition from abroad as the world began to really open up and I think there was a reversal to some extent fueled by technology but also fueled by thoughtful policies in the 90’s where there was this, you know, economic boom that created 22 million new jobs and lots of people, you know, took advantage of that.” [05162013 Remarks to Banco Itau.doc, p. 44-45]

“Just think of what doubling the trade between the United States and Latin America would mean for everybody in this room and it doesn’t happen by accident, it happens because people get up every day and decide they’re going to make an effort.” [05162013 Remarks to Banco Itau.doc, p. 14]

*SEEKS TO CREATE COMMON MARKET AND OPEN BORDERS WITH MEXICO:*

“The North American future that I imagine is one that would give us energy connectivity, give us a much more open border where goods and services more easily flowed, would give us the chance to put our heads together about what else we can do together, bringing Mexico in to continue the work we have started on health care like early warning systems for epidemic diseases. We saw that in 2009 with the spread of a particularly virulent form of the flu that first came to our part of the world and Mexico, and because of the cooperation, because of the investments we made, were able to stop it in its tracks.” [Remarks for CIBC, 1/22/15]

*PUTIN SHOOTS DOWN HER SUGGESTION OF CREATING A UNITED FRONT AGAINST IRAN, ADMITS RUSSIA ISN’T ACTUALLY A THREAT (Jews are really angry about Iran containing Israeli expansion in the Middle East, and Russia’s support):*

“I last saw [Putin] in Vladivostok where I represented President Obama in September for the Asia Pacific economic community. I sat next to him. He’s an engaging and, you know, very interesting conversationalist. We talked about a lot of issues that were not the hot-button issues between us, you know, his view on missile defense, which we think is misplaced because, you know, we don’t believe that there will be a threat from Russia, but we think that both Russia and the United States are going to face threats from their perimeter, either from rogue states like Iran or from terrorist groups, that’s not the way he sees it.” [Hillary Clinton remarks at Sanford Bernstein, 5/29/13]

*U.S. AND JEWS FEAR RUSSIAN POWER, SO THEY TRY TO FIND COMMON GROUND WITH THEM:*

“In terms of interesting, Vladimir Putin is always interesting. You’re never quite sure what he’s going to do or say next, and he’s always—he walks around with, you know, a redwood chip on his shoulder defending and promoting, you know, Mother Russia. So he and I have had our interesting moments. He accused me of personally causing all the riots after the contested election two years ago, but he is someone who you have to deal with. You can’t, you know, just wish he would go away. He has a huge country and huge potential for causing problems for many people so I always tried to figure out some way to connect with him, what we could talk about that maybe we had some common ground” [Jewish United Fund Of Metropolitan Chicago Vanguard Luncheon, 10/28/13]

*U.S. HAS EXTENSIVE COVERT OPERATIONS IN SYRIA, PLANNED TO USE JIHADISTS TO EXHAUST ASSAD AND THEN INTERVENE (this is pre-Russian intervention):*

“So we now have what everybody warned we would have, and I am very concerned about the spillover effects. And there is still an argument that goes on inside the administration and inside our friends at NATO and the Europeans. How do intervene—my view was you intervene as covertly as is possible for Americans to intervene. We used to be much better at this than we are now. Now, you know, everybody can’t help themselves. They have to go out and tell their friendly reporters and somebody else: Look what we’re doing and I want credit for it, and all the rest of it” [ Speech to Goldman Sachs, 2013 IBD Ceo Annual Conference, 6/4/13]

“One way is a very hands off, step back, we don’t have a dog in this hunt, let them kill themselves until they get exhausted, and then we’ll figure out how to deal with what the remnants are. That’s a position held by people who believe that there is no way, not just for the United States but others, to stop the killing before the people doing the killing and the return killing are tired of killing each other. So it’s a very hands-off approach.” [2014 Jewish United Fund Advance & Major Gifts Dinner, 10/28/13]

*HINTS AT ARAB GULF GOVERNMENTS ARMING AL QAEDA AND ISIS:*

“Now, there is another group, which basically argued we do have a national interest in this because refugee flows, jihadist recruitment, giving of large parts of Syria over to uncontrollable groups that threaten Israel, Jordan and others, through conventional means is very much against our interests, and the debate has been can you really influence that? Some of us thought, perhaps, we could, with a more robust, covert action trying to vet, identify, train and arm cadres of rebels that would at least have the firepower to be able to protect themselves against both Assad and the Al-Qaeda-related jihadist groups that have, unfortunately, been attracted to Syria. That’s been complicated by the fact that the Saudis and others are shipping large amounts of weapons—and pretty indiscriminately—not at all targeted toward the people that we think would be the more moderate, least likely, to cause problems in the future, but this is another one of those very tough analytical problems.” [2014 Jewish United Fund Advance & Major Gifts Dinner, 10/28/13]

*SECRETLY SUPPORTS DONALD TRUMP TAX PLAN SHE PUBLICLY CALLS UNFEASIBLE:*

JACK LEWIN: Very good. Thank you. Some of the questions came from this audience. We had a whole lot of them. But a parallel to this question was one about the corporate tax rate. The U.S. corporate tax rate is higher than most of our developed nation colleagues. And so I think without kind of a real sincere just what if we looked at that one area as a means of improving our international ability to compete in the global economy? Is that something, have you thought about that at all? SEC. HILLARY CLINTON: Well, you know, I think that there are a number of reforms that we should consider to make ourselves more competitive. That certainly could be on the table and to be looked at as part of a broader package, because if all you do is lower the rates and you don’t have some path forward as to what you’re trying to achieve and what the loss revenues might mean for pick your favorite subject, basic science or whatever it might be. Then there’s a price to pay. You have to be prepared to pay that price.” [Remarks to Cardiovascular Research Foundation, 9/15/14]

*ASKS WALL STREET PARASITES TO COME UP WITH A STORY SHE CAN DISSEMINATE FOR WHY THE ECONOMY IS IN SHAMBLES*:

“That was one of the reasons that I started traveling in February of ’09, so people could, you know, literally yell at me for the United States and our banking system causing this everywhere. Now, that’s an oversimplification we know, but it was the conventional wisdom. And I think that there’s a lot that could have been avoided in terms of both misunderstanding and really politicizing what happened with greater transparency, with greater openness on all sides, you know, what happened, how did it happen, how do we prevent it from happening? You guys help us figure it out and let’s make sure that we do it right this time. And I think that everybody was desperately trying to fend off the worst effects institutionally, governmentally, and there just wasn’t that opportunity to try to sort this out, and that came later.” [Goldman Sachs AIMS Alternative Investments Symposium, 10/24/13]

“And, you know, let me just briefly say that one of the ways I look at domestic as well as international issues is by trying to focus not just on the headlines, although those are insistent and demand your attention, but to keep an eye on the trend lines. And many of you in this room are masters of the trend lines. You see over the horizon, you think about products that nobody has invented, and you go about the business of trying to do that.” [Goldman Sachs Builders And Innovators Summit, 10/29/13]

*WANTS TO PUT WALL STREET SPECULATORS…IN CHARGE OF REGULATING WALL STREET:*

“Remember what Teddy Roosevelt did. Yes, he took on what he saw as the excesses in the economy, but he also stood against the excesses in politics. He didn’t want to unleash a lot of nationalist, populistic reaction. He wanted to try to figure out how to get back into that balance that has served America so well over our entire nationhood. Today, there’s more that can and should be done that really has to come from the industry itself, and how we can strengthen our economy, create more jobs at a time where that’s increasingly challenging, to get back to Teddy Roosevelt’s square deal. And I really believe that our country and all of you are up to that job.” [Clinton Remarks to Deutsche Bank, 10/7/14]

*CLINTON TOLD GEORGE W. BUSH TO GIVE WALL STREET FREE MONEY AFTER 9/11:*

“I’ll tell you a quick story about President George W. Bush. So we’re attacked in 9/11. I go with my colleague, Chuck Schumer, to New York to meet with Governor Pataki, Mayor Giuliani, and other officials, and to go see the horror that had been inflicted on us. The next day, we’re in the Oval Office. And we had done some back-of-the-envelope calculations. And we asked President Bush — we were in the Oval Office with the two senators from Virginia because of the attack on the Pentagon, and Schumer and me. And President Bush said, ‘What do I need to do?’ And I said, ‘We need $20 billion. We’ve got to quickly get the stock market up, we’ve got to quickly start spending money in order to rebuild lower Manhattan.’ ‘Done.’ He said, ‘You got it.’” [Hillary Clinton’s Remarks at Ameriprise, 7/26/14]


----------



## RabzonKhan

How sick and disgusting, clearly he is not qualified to be President and Commander-in-Chief.








Donald Trump boasted in 2005 to Billy Bush about being able to "grab" women "by the p---y" because "when you're a star they let you do it," in a shocking audio and video recording that emerged Friday.

The recording, which was picked up by a hot mic and published by The Washington Post on Friday, happened while Trump was talking with Billy Bush of "Access Hollywood." The two were aboard a bus and were arriving on the set of "Days of Our Lives" to tape a segment for Trump's upcoming cameo on the soap opera.

The video of the incident includes Trump saying a litany of crude remarks.

In a Friday statement from Trump, which came almost immediately after the story was published, Trump called his commentary "locker room banter."

"This was locker room banter, a private conversation that took place many years ago," Trump said. "Bill Clinton has said far worse to me on the golf course — not even close. I apologize if anyone was offended."

In an extraordinary rebuke of the party's presidential nominee, Republican National Committee Chair Reince Priebus said in a statement: "No woman should ever be described in these terms or talked about in this manner. Ever."

The tape began with Trump discussing a failed attempt to seduce a woman. That woman's name was not mentioned in the tape.

"I moved on her and I failed," he said. "I'll admit it."

According to The Post, the tape was recorded several months after he married his third wife, Melania.

"I did try and f--- her," Trump later said. "She was married. ... And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, 'I'll show you where they have some nice furniture.'"

"I moved on her like a b----, but I couldn’t get there," he continued. "And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony t--- and everything. She's totally changed her look."

At that point, Trump and Bush noticed an actress, Arianne Zucker, who was waiting to take them onto the set.

"I've gotta use some tic tacs, just in case I start kissing her," Trump said. "You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait."

"And when you're a star they let you do it," Trump continued. "You can do anything. ... Grab them by the p---y. You can do anything."

The release of the audio comes two days before Trump and Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton are scheduled to meet for the second of three debates. Clinton during the first debate brought up Trump's history of crude comments about women. Earlier this week, Trump suggested many of those past comments were made "for the purpose of entertainment."





Robert De Niro has a message for Trump:








Darmashkian said:


> Mike Pence Clearly won this debate.
> 
> The Polls,CNN & MSNBC too agreed.


No doubt, he won the debate with a narrow margin, but miserably failed to defend his own leader, and as, Hillary’s VP Kaine said, “if you can't defend the person at the top of the ticket, how can you ask people to vote for him.


*7 criticisms of Trump that Mike Pence refused to answer
Link*

@T-72M1, sorry to see you got banned, I'll reply when you're back.


----------



## RabzonKhan

Its official, our country’s enemy and Trump’s friend Putin was behind the hacking to undermine our democracy and support loser Trump.


*U.S. government officially accuses Russia of hacking campaign to interfere with elections*

By Ellen Nakashima October 7

The Obama administration on Friday officially accused Russia of attempting to interfere in the 2016 elections, including by hacking the computers of the Democratic National Committee and other political organizations.

The denunciation, made by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the Department of Homeland Security, came as pressure was growing from within the administration and some lawmakers to publicly name Moscow and hold it accountable for actions apparently aimed at sowing discord around the election.

“The U.S. Intelligence Community is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from U.S. persons and institutions, including from U.S. political organizations,” said a joint statement from the two agencies. “. . . These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the U.S. election process.”

The public finger-pointing was welcomed by senior Democratic and Republican lawmakers, who also said they now expect the administration to move to punish the Kremlin as part of an effort to deter further acts by its hackers.

“Today was just the first step,” said Sen. Ben Sasse (R-Neb.), a member of the Homeland Security Committee. “Russia must face serious consequences. Moscow orchestrated these hacks because [Russian President Vladimir] Putin believes Soviet-style aggression is worth it. The United States must upend Putin’s calculus with a strong diplomatic, political, cyber and economic response.” Read more


----------



## RabzonKhan

*Russia could ‘doctor’ hacked emails, U.S. officials warn
*
Michael Isikoff Chief Investigative Correspondent October 7, 2016

*A group of former top national security officials and outside experts is warning that Russian intelligence agents may “doctor” emails hacked from the Democratic National Committee and other political groups as part of a sophisticated “disinformation” campaign aimed at influencing the 2016 election.*

*The group, including former Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and former White House counterterrorism adviser Richard Clarke, is urging the news media to be “cautious” about publishing such material lest they be playing into the Russians’ hands.*

*“What is taking place in the United States follows a well-known Russian playbook: First leak compelling and truthful information to gain credibility. The next step: Release fake documents that look the same,” the group said in a joint public statement to be released Friday. An advance copy was provided to Yahoo News.*

*The statement is being released the day after DCLeaks — a mysterious, recently created pop-up website that has been linked to Russia’s military intelligence service — posted a cache of emails apparently hacked from the private gmail account of Capricia Marshall, a longtime Hillary Clinton aide who served as chief of State Department protocol during the time the Democratic nominee was secretary of state.*

While it was not immediately clear whether the Marshall emails contained anything politically damaging, the posting was viewed with alarm inside Democratic Party circles, said two sources who are closely monitoring the Internet hacks. It was seen as the latest sign that the DCLeaks website and others believed to be receiving material from Russian intelligence, including WikiLeaks, may be planning more surprise disclosures in the last few weeks of the election campaign.

“The Russians aren’t coming. They’re already here,” said Tara Sonenshine, a former undersecretary for public diplomacy under Clinton and one of the organizers of the joint statement.

The fear that more embarrassing emails may be coming is especially acute among Democratic operatives and loyalists who have become convinced Russian President Vladimir Putin favors Republican nominee Donald Trump and is attempting to help his campaign. And perhaps not surprisingly, most, if not all, of the 16 former officials and national security experts who signed the statement — including Chertoff, who served during the Bush administration — have endorsed Clinton.

(Other signers include several Obama administration alumni, such as former Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs Derek Chollet and former State Department counterterrorism coordinator Daniel Benjamin; former Michigan Sen. Carl Levin, who served as chairman of the Senate Armed Forces Committee; and Robert Kagan and Max Boot, two influential Republican national security commentators who are backing Clinton.)

Sonenshine insisted that the purpose of the letter was not to pressure the news media to refuse to publish leaked emails. She said it was to alert editors to the Russians’ history of fabrications and the need to proceed cautiously.

“You can’t put out a red stop sign to journalism,” she said. “But you can put up a yellow flag.”

*Sonenshine and another organizer of the letter, Ken Gude of the Center for American Progress, said there is evidence that the Russian intelligence service has fabricated or altered documents to further its political aims in Ukraine and elsewhere. And the joint statement warns such actions appear to fit into a larger strategy of using “cybertools” against Western democracies. Similar concerns about Russian “information warfare” were raised in a recent U.S. intelligence report, disclosed last week by Yahoo News, that cited the activities of Russian Internet trolls and the broadcasts of RT and Sputnik, two state-sponsored media outlets.* *Read more*


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 341689
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> TRUMP IN DEEP TROUBLE ON EVE OF SECOND DEBATE
> 
> By John Cassidy
> *
> If the Presidential election continues on its current course, historians may well look back on the third weekend in September as the moment when Donald Trump came closest to the White House, while millions of Americans reached for the Xanax. *That Saturday, Hillary Clinton’s lead over Trump narrowed to one percentage point in the widely watched Real Clear Politics poll average, which combines the results from a number of surveys. A day later, Clinton’s lead fell to 0.9 percentage points.
> 
> Three weeks later, the numbers look very different. On Friday, according to the Real Clear Politics poll average, the gap between the two candidates was 4.5 percentage points. (Clinton stood at 48.3 per cent; Trump was at 43.8 per cent.) In the Huffington Post’s poll average, which covers a slightly different selection of polls from the Real Clear Politics survey, Clinton’s lead was even bigger: 6.5 percentage points. (Clinton at 48.0 per cent, Trump at 41.5 per cent.)*
> 
> This shift in the national polls has calmed the nerves of many Democrats. Perhaps more important, the numbers in many of the key battleground states have also moved against Trump, making it considerably less likely that he will be able to reach the necessary two hundred and seventy votes in the Electoral College. Back in late September, the New York billionaire was narrowly ahead in Florida, North Carolina, and Ohio, three must-win states for him. But recent state polls indicate that Clinton is now leading in Florida and North Carolina. The state-poll averages do have Trump still slightly ahead in Ohio, but the most two recent surveys, from Public Policy Polling and Monmouth University, showed Clinton with a narrow lead there, too.
> 
> Trump supporters would rightly point out that the race is still tight in all three of these states. According to the Real Clear Politics poll averages, Clinton leads by 2.4 percentage points in Florida and 2.6 percentage points in North Carolina. But the trend is clearly running in the Democrat’s direction. *And, even if Trump turned things around Florida and North Carolina, won Ohio, and carried all the other states that are currently leaning Republican, it would only take him to two hundred and fifty-nine votes in the Electoral College. To get to two hundred and seventy, he’d also have to pick up at least one big Democrat-leaning state, such as Michigan or Pennsylvania, or two or three smaller ones, such as Maine, New Hampshire, and Nevada.*
> 
> Right now, that looks like a huge ask. The latest poll from Michigan, which was carried out for the Detroit _Free Press_, showed Clinton extending her lead to eleven points. In Pennsylvania, where both candidates have been campaigning hard, two polls carried out during the past week showed Clinton with leads of nine points and ten points respectively. In the two New England battleground states, Clinton has been ahead for months, and, according to the Huffington Post’s poll average, which includes all the latest polls, she still leads by about seven points in Maine and about five points in New Hampshire. The race in Nevada appears to be much closer: the poll averages show a virtual tie. But Nevada only has six votes in the Electoral College.
> 
> Some of the improvement in Clinton’s position can surely be put down to her resounding victory over Trump in the first Presidential debate, on September 26th. But that’s not the entire explanation. Even before Clinton’s post-debate bounce started to show up in the national polls, her lead was increasing. On September 28th, for instance, when the polls still largely reflected survey work carried out before the debate, the gap between the two candidates in the Real Clear Politics poll average was back to three per cent.
> 
> That means Clinton has now had three good weeks in a row, during which Trump has been falling further behind. One factor, surely, was last month’s bombings in New York and New Jersey, which took media attention off Clinton’s pneumonia and her “basket of deplorables” comment. In addition, I suspect the poll trends also reflect a negative feedback effect of the kind I wrote about last month: as Trump surged in the polls, some independents and Bernie Sanders Democrats decided it was time to rally behind his opponent.
> 
> Clinton’s strong performance in the debate enabled her to build on a rising trend. You can see that in the head-to-head polls and also in her “favorable”/“unfavorable” ratings, which a number of pollsters track regularly. Real Clear Politics keeps a running average of these figures, too. *It shows that between September 26th, the day of the debate, and Friday, October 6th, Clinton’s favorable rating rose from 40.3 per cent to 43.8 per cent, and her unfavorable rating fell from 55.1 per cent to 52.9 per cent.
> 
> Yes, these numbers indicate that a majority of voters still dislike Clinton. But her net favorability rating has risen by 4.5 points, to minus 9.1 points, in a short time. And, crucially, she is doing significantly better than Trump, whose net favorability rating on Friday was minus twenty points, the same as it was three weeks ago. None of this means that Trump can’t win. But it does imply he is in deep trouble.*
> 
> mistaken.
> 
> The pollsters could goof up in this election, too, but there is little indication in the voter-registration numbers or the early-voting figures that they are missing something big. Indeed, it is also possible that the polls are _underestimating_ Clinton’s lead. Writing in the _Wall Street Journal_ on Thursday, Karl Rove pointed out that, on the day before the 2012 election, the Real Clear Politics poll average showed President Obama leading Mitt Romney by just 0.7 percentage points. When the actual votes were counted, it turned out that Obama had won by 3.9 percentage points, a discrepancy Rove attributed to the Democrats’ superior get-out-the-vote operation. This year, with Trump relying largely on the Republican National Committee for his ground game, something similar could happen.
> 
> That’s speculation. But in any case, with the polls and the electoral map moving against him, Trump doesn’t have much time left to turn things around. He desperately needs a better performance in Sunday’s debate. And even that might not be enough to save him.


Those polls are not accurate. You yourself confirmed that 



RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 341918
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Russia could ‘doctor’ hacked emails, U.S. officials warn
> *
> Michael Isikoff Chief Investigative Correspondent October 7, 2016
> 
> *A group of former top national security officials and outside experts is warning that Russian intelligence agents may “doctor” emails hacked from the Democratic National Committee and other political groups as part of a sophisticated “disinformation” campaign aimed at influencing the 2016 election.*
> 
> *The group, including former Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and former White House counterterrorism adviser Richard Clarke, is urging the news media to be “cautious” about publishing such material lest they be playing into the Russians’ hands.*
> 
> *“What is taking place in the United States follows a well-known Russian playbook: First leak compelling and truthful information to gain credibility. The next step: Release fake documents that look the same,” the group said in a joint public statement to be released Friday. An advance copy was provided to Yahoo News.*
> 
> *The statement is being released the day after DCLeaks — a mysterious, recently created pop-up website that has been linked to Russia’s military intelligence service — posted a cache of emails apparently hacked from the private gmail account of Capricia Marshall, a longtime Hillary Clinton aide who served as chief of State Department protocol during the time the Democratic nominee was secretary of state.*
> 
> While it was not immediately clear whether the Marshall emails contained anything politically damaging, the posting was viewed with alarm inside Democratic Party circles, said two sources who are closely monitoring the Internet hacks. It was seen as the latest sign that the DCLeaks website and others believed to be receiving material from Russian intelligence, including WikiLeaks, may be planning more surprise disclosures in the last few weeks of the election campaign.
> 
> “The Russians aren’t coming. They’re already here,” said Tara Sonenshine, a former undersecretary for public diplomacy under Clinton and one of the organizers of the joint statement.
> 
> The fear that more embarrassing emails may be coming is especially acute among Democratic operatives and loyalists who have become convinced Russian President Vladimir Putin favors Republican nominee Donald Trump and is attempting to help his campaign. And perhaps not surprisingly, most, if not all, of the 16 former officials and national security experts who signed the statement — including Chertoff, who served during the Bush administration — have endorsed Clinton.
> 
> (Other signers include several Obama administration alumni, such as former Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs Derek Chollet and former State Department counterterrorism coordinator Daniel Benjamin; former Michigan Sen. Carl Levin, who served as chairman of the Senate Armed Forces Committee; and Robert Kagan and Max Boot, two influential Republican national security commentators who are backing Clinton.)
> 
> Sonenshine insisted that the purpose of the letter was not to pressure the news media to refuse to publish leaked emails. She said it was to alert editors to the Russians’ history of fabrications and the need to proceed cautiously.
> 
> “You can’t put out a red stop sign to journalism,” she said. “But you can put up a yellow flag.”
> 
> *Sonenshine and another organizer of the letter, Ken Gude of the Center for American Progress, said there is evidence that the Russian intelligence service has fabricated or altered documents to further its political aims in Ukraine and elsewhere. And the joint statement warns such actions appear to fit into a larger strategy of using “cybertools” against Western democracies. Similar concerns about Russian “information warfare” were raised in a recent U.S. intelligence report, disclosed last week by Yahoo News, that cited the activities of Russian Internet trolls and the broadcasts of RT and Sputnik, two state-sponsored media outlets.* *Read more*


Two points to note here (in case you live on another planet):

1).. The average American doesn't give a rats @$$ what Russia allegedly did or did not do. They are more concerned about jobs and fixing the economy and ISIS blowing sh!t up. The average American is more afraid if ISIS than Russia. And we all know Hillary was endorsed by ISIS (she created the terrorist organization).

2). There is no evidence to prove Russia was behind the hacks. These former officials can continue to blow hot steam out of their @$$ all they want. Nobody actually gives a damn, and that's the funny part 



RabzonKhan said:


>


Sounds like something out of MTV Music videos that everyday Americans listen to. So what? 

Unless you were born yesterday, the Average American guy(s) speak no differently in private gatherings, so this falls on deaf ears. At most majority of people might find this amusing and only hardcore feminists cat ladies (who were already voting for Hillary) will find this offensive. No damage done to Trump.

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## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> Sounds like something out of MTV Music videos that everyday Americans listen to. So what?
> 
> Unless you were born yesterday,* the Average American guy(s) speak no differently in private gatherings,* so this falls on deaf ears. At most majority of people might find this amusing and only hardcore feminists cat ladies (who were already voting for Hillary) will find this offensive. No damage done to Trump.


Average American guy, really, so when you meet a married woman do you “*try to f@ck her* “ and move on “*her like a bitch*” and when you see a beautiful woman, you may “start kissing them, it's like a magnet”.?

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## Darmashkian

Well @Desert Fox Many Republicans have taken back their nomination of Trump & many want him to quit the race.

But as Trump himself said just less than an hour back:-

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784840992734064641
And I think this is the first time he did apologize during this campaign!! O.O
_

No doubt, he won the debate with a narrow margin, but miserably failed to defend his own leader, and as, Hillary’s VP Kaine said, “if you can't defend the person at the top of the ticket, how can you ask people to vote for him._

Not that narrow...

& frankly speaking,everybody knows he can't defend his own leader & why he can't. This is not any normal election with normal candidate. He just had to go in & defeat the other+present his vision+Trump's vision+his party's vision.

He did pretty well,much better than kaine
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If Brexit was possible,then so is the victory of Trump...

Nobody ever dreamed it would ever happen,yet it did. Add to that the causes/reasons boosting both are pretty much similar! 

I will elaborate more upon this theory if Trump wins or does well in the popular vote.


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## RabzonKhan

@Darmashkian, since you thanked his post, I was just wondering, do you also have the same feeling, when you meet a married woman do you “try to **** her “ and move on “hurt like a bitch” and when you see a beautiful woman, you may “start kissing them, it's like a magnet”.?

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## anon45

Well This pretty much ended the election, not that he wasn't already losing. Look forward to Mrs. Clinton as our first Mrs president.

Republicans are fleeing a sinking ship now. That said Hillary can't rest on her laurels, she should campaign the best she can and create as big a victory as possible.

What we will need during her first term is unity and a reconciliation of our visions for a better America.

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## Darmashkian

RabzonKhan said:


> @Darmashkian, since you thanked his post, I was just wondering, do you also have the same feeling, when you meet a married woman do you “try to **** her “ and move on “hurt like a bitch” and when you see a beautiful woman, you may “start kissing them, it's like a magnet”.?


Nope I was thanking his* 2 points to note part.*
Frankly speaking the RUssia part.... nobody is going to care much about that. Only those who have made up their minds will.

& the Nat sec guys in the repub party have gone to HC already

I usually thank any post I see if i like any part of that post.... regardless of what I think of the rest.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, when did I say I support that guy Trump??

I have attacked him,criticized him & mocked him.

He is a lunatic,a misogynist,a xenophobe,a conspiracy theorist......etc etc etc

He has broken so many rules of electoral politics,yet he has done so well. The fact he is even in the running is a shock.

Yet he does so well? How?? See he just interests me(an academic interest). THat's it. I don't support him at all. I just want to know how is he doing so well

This guy has done over 200+ outrageous statements & acts AFTER he started the campaign. I've been closefly following him cause I earlier found him funny(not any more)...

I guess like too many Americans who are into the election cycle like me.I have just become tired of this & none of his statements make me laugh/outraged any more.

Why are these elections so long..

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## RabzonKhan

Darmashkian said:


> *Not that narrow*...
> 
> & frankly speaking,everybody knows he can't defend his own leader & why he can't. This is not any normal election with normal candidate. He just had to go in & defeat the other+present his vision+Trump's vision+his party's vision.
> 
> He did pretty well,much better than kaine.


That's clearly narrow:

*(CNN)*Hillary Clinton was deemed the winner of Monday night's debate by *62% *of voters who tuned in to watch, while just *27%* said they thought Donald Trump had the better night, according to a CNN/ORC Poll of voters who watched the debate.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/27/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-debate-poll/

*(CNN)*Mike Pence scored a narrow win over Tim Kaine in the vice presidential debate Tuesday night, according to a CNN/ORC instant poll, with *48%* of voters who watched the debate saying Pence did the better job while *42%* think Kaine had the best night.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/05/politics/mike-pence-tim-kaine-vp-debate-poll/

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## Darmashkian

anon45 said:


> Well This pretty much ended the election, not that he wasn't already losing. Look forward to Mrs. Clinton as our first Mrs president.
> 
> Republicans are fleeing a sinking ship now. That said Hillary can't rest on her laurels, she should campaign the best she can and create as big a victory as possible.


Becoming more & more true by the minute.

If he explodes at the debates.... it's over



RabzonKhan said:


> That's clearly narrow:
> 
> *(CNN)*Hillary Clinton was deemed the winner of Monday night's debate by *62% *of voters who tuned in to watch, while just *27%* said they thought Donald Trump had the better night, according to a CNN/ORC Poll of voters who watched the debate.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/27/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-debate-poll/
> 
> *(CNN)*Mike Pence scored a narrow win over Tim Kaine in the vice presidential debate Tuesday night, according to a CNN/ORC instant poll, with *48%* of voters who watched the debate saying Pence did the better job while *42%* think Kaine had the best night.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/05/politics/mike-pence-tim-kaine-vp-debate-poll/


6% is not very narrow for me & HC's lead isn't narrow. It's big for me(5-8%) & scary for Trump.

I define narrow as 2-3% and below.



RabzonKhan said:


> Average American guy, really, so when you meet a married woman do you “*try to f@ck her* “ and move on “*her like a bitch*” and when you see a beautiful woman, you may “start kissing them, it's like a magnet”.?



Actually many Americans(not the average guy) do think like that.... how else are so many justifications coming in using such arguments.

Just check twitter & FB. Just as I expected,his supporters & fans still stand strong by him!! unfortunately.

Hero worship is never good


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784851904283021314=D =D =D

Go for it !! Let the slaughter commence!






The Governator wont vote for Trump.

& he had a child with his maid while he was married... *that tells us how low Trump has fallen.*

Even Kelly ayotte,a senator from NH who called him a role model says she won't vote for him.

Jon Huntsman & Jeff Flake want him to quit.

Rudy,Christie & Pence have been quite regarding his statements..

WOW... Poor Republicans

@anon45 @RabzonKhan Do u think the Trump effect will be temporary or permanent if he loses this election?? Will more like him arise or will he be the last?


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Average American guy, really, so when you meet a married woman do you “*try to f@ck her* “ and move on “*her like a bitch*” and when you see a beautiful woman, you may “start kissing them, it's like a magnet”.?


Lol, not only the average American guy, but even high school, junior high, even elementary school boys AND girls talk like that in this age of globalism. Hollywood produced music videos glorify this stuff. An hour of MTV will only show half naked women and guys rapping about screwing b!tches.

So like i said, no damage done. Those who were supporting Hillary will continue to support her, and those who support Trump will continue to support him, and those who are independent will remain independent. Nobody gives two sh!ts  unless everyone BUT Donald Trump is a saint.

*MEANWHILE* did you read Crooked Hillary's paid speeches to Wall street Bankers? Now that's stuff that does matter to the Average American.


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## Darmashkian

Desert Fox said:


> Donald Trump


Man do you still he can win?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784846372428128257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784846788834373632
The GOP is silently withdrawing support from him.... They obviously believe he will lose.

Without any machinery of his own or the party's,how can he win??

Mccain withdraws support from Trump
http://www.johnmccain.com/statement-from-john-mccain-withdrawing-support-of-donald-trump/


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## Dil Pakistan

What is GOP..??? ....Govt. of Pakistan..


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## Darmashkian

Dil Pakistan said:


> What is GOP..??? ....Govt. of Pakistan..


Haha.. Nope,not in this case

In this context it means,
Grand Old Party i.e. the Republican Party of the USA  
---------------------------------
Melania joins the fun,blasts her husband's words.. But still stands with him & wants u to vote for him


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## Desert Fox

Darmashkian said:


> Man do you still he can win?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784846372428128257
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784846788834373632
> The GOP is silently withdrawing support from him.... They obviously believe he will lose.
> 
> Without any machinery of his own or the party's,how can he win??
> 
> Mccain withdraws support from Trump
> http://www.johnmccain.com/statement-from-john-mccain-withdrawing-support-of-donald-trump/


These losers have been withdrawing support since day one  yet Trump made it this far due to Republican voter base supporting him, not these pathetic low life neocons.

Regarding Trump losing the party machinery, you have to keep in mind that Trump from the beginning had very little support from the Republican establishment. And it was mostly grassroots efforts of the Republican voter base (as well as alienated supporters of other parties) who helped Trump get this far because his words RESONATE with the people. Keep in mind all of the odds stacked against Trump, with the MSM being pro-Hillary and bashing Trump non-stop, yet despite all of this he made it this far only because the people support him.

It's too early to say who will win though, so lets just wait and see.


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## Śakra

F-22Raptor said:


> This is devastating for Trump. His campaign was already on life support, an this is likely the final nail in the coffin for him. I'll be shocked if he recovers from this.



Watch news today. Seems like he recovered.


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## Gandhi G in da house

Desert Fox said:


> These losers have been withdrawing support since day one  yet Trump made it this far due to Republican voter base supporting him, not these pathetic low life neocons.
> 
> Regarding Trump losing the party machinery, you have to keep in mind that Trump from the beginning had very little support from the Republican establishment. And it was mostly grassroots efforts of the Republican voter base (as well as alienated supporters of other parties) who helped Trump get this far because his words RESONATE with the people. Keep in mind all of the odds stacked against Trump, with the MSM being pro-Hillary and bashing Trump non-stop, yet despite all of this he made it this far only because the people support him.
> 
> It's too early to say who will win though, so lets just wait and see.



Hey Dessert Fox, Are you Pakistani Muslim ? How do you support Trump ?

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## Śakra

boomslang said:


> I was banned, like you are now. It doesn't matter. After this last video, Trump is done. Killary can start moving into the White House right now. Killary was SOOOO beatable but Trump just fucked up at every turn.



I don't like Hillary or Trump (not that an non-American' opinion matters), but seeing his support rally today shows that he isn't out yet.


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## waz

Trump's history.

On a side note. Arianne Zucker was so hot back in the 90's. She was pretty much the only reason I watched the show.


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## Desert Fox

nick_indian said:


> Hey Dessert Fox, Are you Pakistani Muslim ? How do you support Trump ?


This is a liberal/MSM divide and conquer tactic to make it seem like Trump is anti-X group of people therefore X people should not support him because he's "racist", "mysoginist", "Islamophobe", etc..... One only need look at both candidates policies to see who will be better of for the average American. You would be surprised to know a lot of American Muslims support Trump, but keep quite about it.



waz said:


> Trump's history.


Too soon to say so. The first votes haven't even been cast yet.

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## waz

Desert Fox said:


> Too soon to say so. The first votes haven't even been cast yet.



Maybe so, but this blow could be the knockout. Hilary was all smiles today and for good reason.

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## Russell

Desert Fox said:


> Too soon to say so. The first votes haven't even been cast yet.


Actually early and absentee voting has already started.

Obviously this is tens of thousands of votes, not tens of millions....but, it has started.


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## Desert Fox

waz said:


> Maybe so, but this *blow* could be the knockout. Hilary was all smiles today and for good reason.


Which "blow" exactly?



Russell said:


> Actually early and absentee voting has already started.
> 
> Obviously this is tens of thousands of votes, not tens of millions....but, it has started.


There are no results yet.

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> Which "blow" exactly?
> 
> 
> There are no results yet.



Trump needs to clearly bring out (in the next debate) what Hillary has said/acted...especially how she shielded her rapist husband by attacking and demeaning other women (all for political preservation and mileage).....and how she believes what she says (by what she has said and done publically rather than privately).

He needs to go in all guns blazing, screw the sympathy he has for Chelsea.

The Podesta Emails are just for when he wants to take a breather.

This is effectively the do or die moment to ensure democrat voters stay suppressed on polling day as much as possible. Trump core support is larger and more resilient and know what the MSM is up to.

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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> Trump needs to clearly bring out (in the next debate) what Hillary has said/acted...especially how she shielded her rapist husband by attacking and demeaning other women (all for political preservation and mileage).....and how she believes what she says (by what she has said and done publically rather than privately).
> 
> He needs to go in all guns blazing, screw the sympathy he has for Chelsea.
> 
> The Podesta Emails are just for when he wants to take a breather.
> 
> This is effectively the do or die moment to ensure democrat voters stay suppressed on polling day as much as possible. Trump core support is larger and more resilient and know what the MSM is up to.


Exactly! Trump has been holding back on a lot of things pertaining to the Clinton's dark scandalous past and i think he's doing this so as to not seem "un-Presidential", but at this point he has every reason to bring Clinton scandals up in the next debate to keep the pressure mounting on her camp.

Trump supporters are unswervingly loyal to their candidate and this really isn't the first time the pro-Hillary MSM tried their best to throw dirt on him. Trump camp is resilient and will continue to remain so.

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## jaunty

Desert Fox said:


> Exactly! Trump has been holding back on a lot of things pertaining to the Clinton's dark scandalous past and i think he's doing this so as to not seem "un-Presidential", but at this point he has every reason to bring Clinton scandals up in the next debate to keep the pressure mounting on her camp.
> 
> Trump supporters are unswervingly loyal to their candidate and this really isn't the first time the pro-Hillary MSM tried their best to throw dirt on him. Trump camp is resilient and will continue to remain so.



It's a double aged sword. Trump does not have the temperament, guile and even vocabulary to hit Hillary and yet appear presidential. If he goes dirty, which I think he will, he will look even worse and it's not like people don't know about Hillary's scandals. For most people, this election is all about choosing the lesser evil. If someone like Romney had run against Hillary, he would have 100% won IMO. The guy gave a tough fight to Obama who's far more popular than Hillary and without a scandalous past like the Clintons. Republicans shot themselves in the foot by nominating Trump. It is all over for Donnie boy.

IMO John Kasich was the best candidate for the republicans from the primaries. He was a center right himself and would have gotten all center right (+far right) votes and some center left votes too due to Hillary's scandals and her general unlikability.


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## Desert Fox

jaunty said:


> It's a double aged sword. Trump does not have the temperament, guile and even vocabulary to hit Hillary and yet appear presidential. If he goes dirty, which I think he will, he will look even worse and it's not like people don't know about Hillary's scandals. For most people, this election is all about choosing the lesser evil. If someone like Romney had run against Hillary, he would have 100% won IMO. The guy gave a tough fight to Obama who's far more popular than Hillary and without a scandalous past like the Clintons. Republicans shot themselves in the foot by nominating Trump. It is all over for Donnie boy.
> 
> IMO John Kasich was the best candidate for the republicans from the primaries. He was a center right himself and would have gotten all center right (+far right) votes and some center left votes too due to Hillary's scandals and her general unlikability.


I think this whole eleven years old tape issue is being completely blown out of proportion, even exaggerated in terms of its importance by the Mainstream Media which has clearly been biased in favor of Hillary Clinton.

In reality the average American doesn't care what Donald Trump said in some private conversation with another guy regarding making advances on beautiful women from eleven years ago. It was a private conversation and no one is exempt from talking like this within American society. I'm sure anyone that has lived and interacted with the average Americans, particularly the guys in a specifically guys only gathering has come across such conversations where guys brag about getting laid with so and so or going out with so and so or hooking up with so and so. Is it inappropriate? Yes. Is it out of norm? No. After all, we're talking about America here, the home of Hollywood and "pop culture" and pronography, *where the book 50 Shades of Grey and the movie of the same name are a hit with American women.* 






@Nilgiri @boomslang @GBU-28 @RabzonKhan ​This whole tape revelation was just a mere distraction to throw off the focus from Hillary's private paid speeches to Wall Street, and most people have realize that. Regarding your other point about Kasich, he and the other nominees lost because their message did not resonate with the Republican voter base.
​

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## 艹艹艹



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## Devil Soul

*US election: More top Republicans drop support for Trump*

5 hours ago
More senior Republicans have withdrawn support for US presidential candidate Donald Trump after his obscene remarks about women became public.

At least a dozen Republicans have said they will not be voting for him, since the comments emerged on Friday.

Mr Trump says he will never drop out of the race to be president and will never let his supporters down.

He has been under pressure after a tape from 2005 of him bragging about groping and kissing women was broadcast.


Which Republicans have deserted Trump?
Is the Trump campaign done for?
Could Republicans still dump Trump?
Full transcript of videotape
Katty Kay: Why this is different




Image copyrightGETTY IMAGES
Image captionCondoleezza Rice: "Donald Trump should not be president."
The latest to withdraw their support are former Republican presidential candidate John McCain and former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

Mr McCain said Mr Trump's comments "make it impossible to continue to offer even conditional support for his candidacy", while Ms Rice said: "Enough! Donald Trump should not be President. He should withdraw."

New Hampshire Senator Kelly Ayotte said in a statement: "I cannot and will not support a candidate for president who brags about degrading and assaulting women," she said

Ms Ayotte - who faces a competitive race for re-election - said she would not vote for Mrs Clinton but instead would "write in" Mike Pence, Mr Trump's vice-presidential running mate, on her ballot paper.

Several other Republicans also said they would vote for Mr Pence.

Media captionA video obtained by the Washington Post shows Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump making lewd remarks about women



Image copyrightTWITTER
Mr Trump himself stressed that there was "zero chance I'll quit", adding that he was getting "unbelievable" support.

And in a tweet, the Republican candidate said "the media and establishment want me out of the race so badly".

Mr Trump's wife Melania issued a statement on Saturday saying: "The words my husband used are unacceptable and offensive to me."

She said her husband had "the heart and mind of a leader".

Mr Pence said he was "offended" by Mr Trump's video, but grateful he had expressed remorse and apologised to the American people.

"We pray for his family," he said in a statement.

House Speaker Paul Ryan had originally invited Mr Trump to attend a campaign event in Wisconsin this weekend but rescinded his invitation, saying he was "sickened" by what he had heard. Mr Pence was due to go in his running mate's place, but declined to attend.

Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton, Mr Trump's Democratic election rival, called his comments in the tape "horrific".

*Warning: The rest of this article contains some graphic language*
In the recorded comments, which date back to 2005 when Mr Trump was appearing as a guest on a soap, he says "you can do anything" to women "when you're a star" and is heard saying "grab them by the pussy".

The candidate released a video statement apologising for the comments.

Jump media player
Media player help

Out of media player. Press enter to return or tab to continue.
Media captionTrump apologises for lewd comments and vows to be a "better man"
Mr Trump's 2005 comments, posted by the Washington Post, overshadowed the release of transcripts of Mrs Clinton's speeches to private events, by the whistle-blowing site Wikileaks.

The candidate had married his third wife Melania a few months before the recording. She said on Saturday: "I hope people will accept his apology, as I have, and focus on the important issues facing our nation and the world."

The second TV debate between Mr Trump and Mrs Clinton will take place on Sunday evening in St Louis.

Mr Trump recently said he would not bring up stories about Bill Clinton's infidelities in the debate, after previously threatening to do so.

But in his video apology, he attacked the former president directly:

"Bill Clinton has actually abused women, and Hillary has bullied, attacked and shamed his victims.

"We'll discuss this in the coming days," he said. "See you at the debate on Sunday."

*Is this Trump row different? - Katty Kay, Presenter, BBC World News*



Image copyrightREUTERS
Image captionFormer Miss Universe Alicia Machado has spoken out against Mr Trump
The day after a video emerged in which he suggested he could have any woman he wants because he's a star and so could just grab them by the pussy, Mr Trump is in a whole ocean of hot political water.

Enough, quite possibly, to sink any chance he had of winning the White House.

There is a violence in the phrases "grab 'em by the pussy" and "you can do anything" that any victim of abuse would recognise and that most women would find sickening.

But this tape doesn't just offend women, judging from the reaction in the Republican party. It has offended a lot of men too. Whether those men will now withdraw their endorsements of him is yet to be seen.
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37599111

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## Darmashkian

Desert Fox said:


> Exactly! Trump has been holding back on a lot of things pertaining to the Clinton's dark scandalous past and i think he's doing this so as to not seem "un-Presidential", but at this point he has every reason to bring Clinton scandals up in the next debate to keep the pressure mounting on her camp.
> 
> Trump supporters are unswervingly loyal to their candidate and this really isn't the first time the pro-Hillary MSM tried their best to throw dirt on him. Trump camp is resilient and will continue to remain so.


I heard there are 2 more such videos waiting to be released,just like this one.

See his supporters will remain with him.. but he needs the independents to get the swing states on his side

These videos will take away those independents!

& the primaries are different from the Main event!

You need millions to come out & vote & spread your message.. you really need a strong machinery for this.

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## Styx



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## Desert Fox

Darmashkian said:


> I heard there are 2 more such videos waiting to be released,just like this one.
> 
> See his supporters will remain with him.. but he needs the independents to get the swing states on his side
> 
> These videos will take away those independents!
> 
> & the primaries are different from the Main event!
> 
> You need millions to come out & vote & spread your message.. you really need a strong machinery for this.


Trump isn't out because the people are still with him. He only needs the people, not a dozen sellout Politicians. If this first recording hasn't deterred his support base, i doubt these "two" other recordings will.


*Despite Media Propaganda, Trump Supporters *
*Come Out To Show Their Support For The Donald*

*



*

*Meanwhile Paul Ryan (R., Wisconsin) Gets Booed*
*For Disowning Donald Trump*

*



*​

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## RabzonKhan

*Sorry, Donald and Rudy, most men don't talk like that*
By Dean Obeidallah 10/9/2016

*(CNN)Donald Trump and some of his supporters want you to believe that his vile comments about women on a recently released video are just typical "locker room banter." Trump is 100 percent wrong -- unless that locker room is in a prison where sexual predators are jailed.*

*The words Trump used are not the typical language used by men to describe women --- in or out of a locker room. I say that as someone who played ice hockey on my high school and college team and have heard guys in locker rooms say lots of things about women -- some awful. And still Trump's comments, made when he was 59 years old, are far more appalling than those of guys in their late teens and early twenties.*

I was raised in North Jersey at a time when the concept of "political correctness" was not even known. Yes, many young men spoke in ways that objectified women, commenting in detail on how "hot" certain women were and sharing their desire to hook up with them. And many bragged about their "sexual conquests" in an effort to impress us.

*But I never ever heard a man boast or even talk about kissing or groping women without their consent like Trump did: "I just start kissing them...Just kiss. I don't even wait." Trump later added, "Grab them by the pu**y. You can do anything."*

This is bragging about sexually assaulting women, since that is exactly what kissing or touching women without their consent is. It's that simple.

*Yet Trump and some supporters want you to believe that his comments were just "guys being guys." On Sunday Rudy Giuliani, while calling Trump's remarks "horrible," told CNN's Jake Tapper "but the fact is that men at times talk like that."*

*To his credit Tapper responded forcefully, "I have been in locker rooms. I have been a member of a fraternity. I have never heard any man, ever, brag about being able to maul women because they get away with it -- never."*

Trump's wealthy backers, Robert and Rebekah Mercer, disturbingly offered a similar defense with their statement, "We are completely indifferent to Mr. Trump's locker room braggadocio."
"Indifferent" to someone bragging about sexual assault? I sincerely hope no women in their family are ever subjected to what Trump boasted he had done to other people's daughters.

Even given Trump's history, his comments in this video are mind-blowing. And that is saying a lot, considering Trump has made countless remarks demeaning women -- calling them a "pig," a "slob" and a "bimbo," and tweeting that "Hillary Clinton couldn't satisfy her husband what makes you think she could satisfy America?"

Why would Trump think he could get away with his degrading words and possibly even touching women inappropriately? Well, as he told us in the video: "When you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything." While I'm not comparing Trump to Bill Cosby, it does conjure up the same mindset. When it comes to women, some rich male celebrities appear to think they can get away with doing anything they want.
Trump's track record in defending famous men who have allegedly engaged in sexual misconduct makes this episode even more troubling. Most recently he defended former Fox News chief and Trump campaign adviser Roger Ailes against claims that Ailes sexually harassed over 20 women by questioning whether the female victims were telling the truth.

In 1992, Trump publicly defended Mike Tyson against rape charges even after he had been convicted, claiming Tyson was "railroaded." Worse, Trump in essence blamed the victim for being raped by saying, "You have a young woman that was in his hotel room late in the evening at her own will."

*And Trump, who will likely raise the issue of Bill Clinton's alleged sexual misconduct at tonight's debate, also has slammed the women who made allegations against Clinton by saying, "His victims are terrible... a terrible group of people" and even called some of them "unattractive."*

To say Trump is simply saying typical guy stuff is absolutely wrong. Trump is not the typical guy. He is a celebrity who has for years despicably demeaned women, bragged about possibly sexually assaulting women and defended men involved in (alleged) sexual improprieties.

*This is just more proof to add to an avalanche of evidence that Trump should never, ever serve as president of the United States of America.* *Link*

@Darmashkian

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## LA se Karachi



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## RabzonKhan

Darmashkian said:


> 6% is not very narrow for me & HC's lead isn't narrow. It's big for me(5-8%) & scary for Trump.
> 
> I define narrow as 2-3% and below.


Pence won with six points, the poll had the margin of sampling error of plus or minus of 4.5 percentage points, therefore, his lead was only 1.5% points. On the other hand, Hillary's lead over Trump was 35 points with the same error of plus or minus and that's why I don't think it was really a very significant lead. But the bottom line is, he won.



Desert Fox said:


> Lol, not only the average American guy, but even high school, junior high, even elementary school boys AND girls talk like that in this age of globalism. Hollywood produced music videos glorify this stuff. An hour of MTV will only show half naked women and guys rapping about screwing b!tches.
> 
> So like i said, no damage done. Those who were supporting Hillary will continue to support her, and those who support Trump will continue to support him, and those who are independent will remain independent. Nobody gives two sh!ts  unless everyone BUT Donald Trump is a saint.


You can remain in denial all you want, but the fact is, if it was really not a serious matter (as you want us to believe), an arrogant man like Trump would not have apologized twice.


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> You can remain in denial all you want, but the fact is, if it was really not a serious matter (as you want us to believe), an arrogant man like Trump would not have apologized twice.


It's a fact my good friend. In a society where books like *Fifty Shades of Grey* (in which, ironically a rich guy sexually abuses a woman) rate high with the women of this country, do you think people will actually care? Some will find it funny, some will find it annoying, the rest will move on.




Now, regarding Trump's apology, you have to understand that was his way of humbling himself before the people so as to make Hillary seem like a corrupt witch for not acknowledging her corrupt acts and apologizing to the people for her double dealings. Very smart strategy by Trump i have to say.

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## Desert Fox

*LA Times- USC Dornsife Sunday Poll: Donald Trump Retains 2 Point Lead Over Hillary*​
Donald Trump leads Hillary Clinton by two points in the latest LA Times – USC Dornsife presidential poll.


This is two days after the Clinton Campaign (Washington Post) released audio of Donald Trump from 2005 talking about his sexual conquests.

 
The Democrat-mainstream media has largely ignored the Wikileaks Clinton emails that were also released on Friday.

*



*​

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## RabzonKhan

Watching the second Presidential debate LIVE


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## Desert Fox

Wow, Trump smashed Hillary. He brutalized her.

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> Wow, Trump smashed Hillary. He brutalized her.



I think it follows the same trend like we saw in the primaries....improvement over time by Trump.

This means the 3rd final debate is well poised for him I feel.

"because you'd be in jail" ----was the best part

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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> I think it follows the same trend like we saw in the primaries....improvement over time by Trump.
> 
> This means the 3rd final debate is well poised for him I feel.


Exactly! I think the first debate was his way of gauging Hillary's capabilities to get a feel of how he would stratagize for the last two debates.



Nilgiri said:


> "because you'd be in jail" ----was the best part


LMAO!!! I almost choked from laughter when he said that.

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## cleverrider

1-1! Bring on the 3rd 



Desert Fox said:


> LMAO!!! I almost choked from laughter when he said that.



Her face expressions were very telling and when he brought up Billy past and and that fly on her head/face, Incase you missed it.

Good recovery for Trump.

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## F-22Raptor

I think Trump was successful in stopping the bleeding, but he wasn't able to expand his base. Clinton is still the clear frontrunner right now.

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## Styx

allright, round 2 goes to The Donald.


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## KAL-EL

F-22Raptor said:


> I think Trump was successful in stopping the bleeding, but he wasn't able to expand his base. Clinton is still the clear frontrunner right now.



I concur. I think he was successful in holding his own, I just think it's most likely too little too late.

Of course nothing is etched in stone, and a lot can certainly happen from now until election day with these candidates.

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## Desert Fox

cleverrider said:


> 1-1! Bring on the 3rd
> 
> 
> 
> Her face expressions were very telling and when he brought up Billy past and and that fly on her head/face, Incase you missed it.
> 
> Good recovery for Trump.


Oh yeah definitely. He thrashed her through the entire debate. All she replied with was "its all completely false, go to HillaryClinton.com"

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## Darmashkian

RabzonKhan said:


> Pence won with six points, the poll had the margin of sampling error of plus or minus of 4.5 percentage points, therefore, his lead was only 1.5% points. On the other hand, Hillary's lead over Trump was 35 points with the same error of plus or minus and that's why I don't think it was really a very significant lead. But the bottom line is, he won.
> 
> 
> You can remain in denial all you want, but the fact is, if it was really not a serious matter (as you want us to believe), an arrogant man like Trump would not have apologized twice.


I was talking about the lead in the national polls,not the debate ones..

I should have elaborated myself better,thanks for bearing with me.


Nilgiri said:


> I think it follows the same trend like we saw in the primaries....improvement over time by Trump.
> 
> This means the 3rd final debate is well poised for him I feel.
> 
> "because you'd be in jail" ----was the best part


He has improved,his performance is better than the last one & this time he didn't interject too much.



KAL-EL said:


> I concur. I think he was successful in holding his own, I just think it's most likely too little too late.
> 
> Of course nothing is etched in stone, and a lot can certainly happen from now until election day with these candidates.


In electoral politics,it is NEVER too late,things can always change when it comes to a nation like the USA.

Trump can still crash & go to 10%  Or he could rise & go to 55% too  

"A week is a long time in Politics".

Though TBH,if polls were held today,HC would win.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Hillary wins on CNN again(though by a smaller margin than before)






Online polls give it to Trump

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785324207991250945


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## Darmashkian

Trump has done much better than I thought!!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785306258979119104
Woahh @Desert Fox He actually won voters over!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785311438726397956
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I absolutely disagree with the Pundits on this:-

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785337205732499456
This "You should be in jail" line is a super hit among the masses!

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## Gandhi G in da house

KAL-EL said:


> I concur. I think he was successful in holding his own, I just think it's most likely too little too late.
> 
> Of course nothing is etched in stone, and a lot can certainly happen from now until election day with these candidates.



Hillary will win most probably. I just have some advice for you guys since that is going to happen.

In the years to come, try to avoid heavily crowded places especially during festive seasons. Keep an eye out for unclaimed bags. Pray every morning when you leave from home. Stay fit and be ready to run as hard and fast as you can. You'll need it. You can ask for more tips from the British and the French.


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## Azeri440

Darmashkian said:


> Trump has done much better than I thought!!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785306258979119104
> Woahh @Desert Fox He actually won voters over!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785311438726397956
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> I absolutely disagree with the Pundits on this:-
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785337205732499456
> This "You should be in jail" line is a super hit among the masses!



I was surprised how well he did, specially with that tape coming up right before the debate

Hillary lost her golden chance to sink him completely, the tape is already pretty much forgotten 
She probably expected the same Trump from first debate and got too confident


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## KAL-EL

nick_indian said:


> Hillary will win most probably. I just have some advice for you guys since that is going to happen.
> 
> In the years to come, try to avoid heavily crowded places especially during festive seasons. Keep an eye out for unclaimed bags. Pray every morning when you leave from home. Stay fit and be ready to run as hard and fast as you can. You'll need it. You can ask for more tips from the British and the French.



Thanks for the advice, but I don't live my life in fear and never will.

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## Gandhi G in da house

KAL-EL said:


> Thanks for the advice, but I don't live my life in fear and never will.



Good to know. Best of luck


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## cloud4000

Azeri440 said:


> I was surprised how well he did, specially with that tape coming up right before the debate
> 
> Hillary lost her golden chance to sink him completely, the tape is already pretty much forgotten
> She probably expected the same Trump from first debate and got too confident



Trump can stay insult women, minorities, etc., and people would support him. There can be video of him drowning a bag full of kittens and people will still support him. We are in a crazy election cycle.

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## Desert Fox

LMAO!!! @Nilgiri @C130 @cleverrider @boomslang 

*Bill Clinton's Reaction To Trump Bringing *
*His Sex Victims to Debate *​





​

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## F-22Raptor

The Second Debate Probably Didn’t Help Trump, And He Needed Help


The second presidential debate on Sunday night was a strange one, with Donald Trump appearing to be on the brink of a meltdown in the first 20 to 30 minutes and then steadying himself the rest of the way. But here’s the bottom line: Based on post-debate polls, Hillary Clinton probably ended the night in a better place than she started it. And almost without question, she ended the weekend — counting the debate, the revelation on Friday of a 2005 tape in which Trump was recorded appearing to condone unwanted sexual contact against women, and the Republican reaction to the tape — in an improved position.

At times during the past two weeks, but particularly on Saturday afternoon as prominent Republicans were denouncing or unendorsing Trump one after another, it has seemed like Trump’s campaign is experiencing the political equivalent of a stock market crash. By that I mean: There’s some bad news that triggers the crash, and there’s also an element of panic and herd behavior, and it becomes hard to tell exactly which is which. At some point, the market usually finds its footing, as the stock has some fundamental value higher than zero. But it can be a long way down before it does.

At roughly the 20-minute mark of Sunday’s debate — about the point at which Trump said that he’d appoint a special prosecutor to investigate Clinton and that she’d “be in jail” if someone like him had been president — it seemed prudent to wonder whether Trump’s campaign was over. I don’t mean over in a literal sense (it would be almost impossible to replace Trump on the ballot). But over in the sense that we knew the outcome of the election for all intents and purposes, to a higher degree of confidence than FiveThirtyEight’s statistical models — which gave Clinton “only” about an 80 percent chance of winning heading into the debate — alone implied. (The polls — and therefore the models — have not yet had time to capture any effect from the Trump tape revelations.)

After all, the past two weeks have gone about as badly as possible for Trump. After having drawn the race to a fairly close position, Trump took one of the most lopsided defeats ever at the first debate in New York on Sept. 26. Then he engaged in a weeklong battle with a former Miss Universe, Alicia Machado, which the Clinton campaign gleefully egged on. _Then_ the story broke that Trump had claimed losses of more than $900 million in 1995 and perhaps had not paid federal income taxes for 18 years.

But wait, there’s more! After a relatively effective vice presidential debate for Mike Pence earlier in the week — although it didn’t appear to have helped Trump in the polling — The Washington Post dropped its story about the tape Friday afternoon. By Saturday, Republican defections were getting bad enough that Trump was fending off rumors that Pence would quit the race. And then Trump began his Sunday evening at a makeshift press conference that featured three women who have accused Bill Clinton of sexual harassment or sexual assault and a fourth woman who was raped by a man Hillary Clinton represented at trial in 1975. The Bill Clinton sex story might be of interest to Drudge Report readers and parts of Trump’s base, but most Americans are tired of hearing about it, at least in an election in which Bill Clinton isn’t running for office. And _then_ in the first 20 minutes of the debate, Trump brought up the Bill Clinton accusations again and threatened to imprison Hillary Clinton, without showing any of the contrition that Republican leaders were calling for.

But Trump made it through the rest of the debate with a relatively good performance — or at least, so I thought. He was oftentimes meandering but fairly measured, and he was effective at pressing Clinton on Obamacare and her email server, for instance. The key term, however, is “relatively.” I’ve covered enough debates to know that other than in the really obvious cases, it can be hard to judge how voters will perceive a performance. So you grasp on to what you can find: prediction markets, which began to show Trump rebounding about halfway through the debate; real-time reaction from focus groups; and the sentiment of other journalists.

This inevitably introduces the possibility of groupthink and various other biases, such as judging a candidate’s performance relative “to expectations” (i.e., relative to the media’s expectations, not the voters’ expectations) instead of in any absolute sense. Once expectations were lowered to the point that we in the media were speculating about whether Trump’s own running mate might drop out, any half-decent performance was bound to look good.

It’s not clear that voters judge debates in the same way, however. A CNN poll of debate watchers found that even though most voters thought Trump exceeded expectations, 57 percent of them nevertheless declared Clinton the winner, compared with 34 percent for Trump. A YouGov poll of debate watchers showed a much closer outcome, but with Clinton also winning, 47 percent to 42 percent.

These instant-reaction polls actually _do_ have a correlation with post-debate horse-race polls: The candidate who wins the former usually gains in the latter. Perhaps Clinton’s win was modest enough that this will be an exception, especially given that the sentiments of pundits and television commentators (which sometimes matter as much as the debate itself) were all over the map.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-second-debate-probably-didnt-help-trump-and-he-needed-help/


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## F-22Raptor

While not rescinding his endorsement, Paul Ryan just threw Trump under the bus.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/house-republicans-seek-proper-response-to-donald-trump-video-1476112495

Poll: After Trump Tape Revelation, Clinton's Lead Up to Double Digits


As Donald Trump's campaign reels over tapes of the presidential candidate's sexually aggressive comments about women in 2005, the Republican nominee now trails Hillary Clinton by double digits among likely voters, according to a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll. 

The poll, conducted on Saturday and Sunday but before the second presidential debate, shows Clinton with 46 percent support among likely voters in a four-way matchup, compared to 35 percent for Trump.

Libertarian Gary Johnson's support stands at nine percent, and Green Party candidate Jill Stein garners two percent. In a head-to-head matchup, Clinton's lead over Trump grows to 14 percent (52 percent to Trump's 38 percent.)

And among all registered voters, Clinton's lead is 13 points, her largest advantage over Trump since the poll began testing the pair last September.

As Republicans grapple with how to hold on to control of the House and Senate despite the Trump campaign's woes, Democrats overall now have a seven-point advantage on the question of which party voters want to see in control of Congress.

Forty-nine percent of voters say they'd like to see Democrats in power on Capitol Hill, compared to 42 percent who chose the GOP.

That's up from a three-point advantage for Democrats (48 percent to 45 percent) last month, and it's the largest advantage for Democrats since the October 2009 government shutdown.

Although voters overall are split over the impact of the 2005 tape of Trump describing kissing and touching women's bodies without their consent, less than a quarter of Republicans say that the revelations should be grounds for other GOP Senate and House candidates to drop their backing of Trump (nine percent) or call for him to drop out of the race (14 percent.)

A total of 52 percent of respondents say that the audiotape should be an issue in the campaign, while 42 percent say it should not be an issue.

While 31 percent of voters say Trump's comments about women were "Inappropriate, but typical of how some men talk in private with other men," a larger share - 41 percent - say the remarks were "completely unacceptable."

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/fir...velation-clinton-s-lead-double-digits-n663691


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## WaLeEdK2

Trump definitely won the second debate.

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## Nilgiri

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151599421561/quick-debate-reactions-from-switzerland

Quick Debate Reactions from Switzerland
100+ Scott Adams' Blog

I just watched the debate on replay. Trump won bigly. This one wasn’t close. And keep in mind that I called Clinton the winner of the first debate, and I now endorse Gary Johnson, primarily to avoid being called an alleged enabler of alleged sex abusers and their alleged enablers. That basket of deplorables includes both Bill and Hillary Clinton (the alleged doer and the alleged cleaner-upper) plus Trump and his alleged misdeeds.

Some quick reactions…

1. When the Access Hollywood tape came up, Trump dismissed it as locker room banter that he regrets. You expected that part. The persuasion move was that he quickly contrasted that “small” issue with images of ISIS beheadings, and cage-drownings. It was a high ground maneuver, a powerful visual anchor (like the Rosie O’Donnell move from his first primary debate), and a contrast play. In this framing, Trump cares about saving your life while Clinton cares about your choice of words. I realize the issue is Trump’s alleged deeds, not his words. But in terms of debate persuasion, Trump nailed it hard.

2. Clinton’s body language was defensive. Trump is physically larger and prowled the stage. He won the optics. It only got worse when a fly landed on Clinton’s face mid-answer. Both candidates looked perfect in terms of wardrobe and hair, given what they have to work with.

3. Trump threw in enough random details about Syria to persuade viewers that he knows more than they thought he knew. And he did a great job selling the idea that he knows more than the generals (as ridiculous as that sounds), at least in terms of not announcing where we plan to attack. I agree with the moderator who said there might be good reasons for announcing attacks – such as giving time for civilians to leave – but it wasn’t quite a counter-argument. Trump succeeded in looking informed on Syria, and at the same time reinforced the “can’t keep a secret” theme for Clinton.

4. Trump’s pre-debate show with Bill’s alleged victims dismantled Clinton’s pro-woman high ground before the debate even started. I didn’t see the pre-debate show, but I assume it was impactful. It had to be. Clinton looked shaken from the start.

5. The best quotable moments from the debate are pro-Trump. His comment about putting Clinton in jail has that marvelous visual persuasion quality about it, and it was the laugh of the night, which means it will be repeated endlessly. He also looked like he meant it.

Clinton’s Abe Lincoln defense for two-faced politicking failed as hard as anything can fail. Mrs. Clinton, I knew Abe Lincoln, and you’re no Abe Lincoln. You know that was in your head. Or it will be.

6. Most of the rest was policy stuff that no one understands or cares about. We don’t know how to fix Obamacare or what to do with TPP. But by acting competent on these and other policy issues, Trump gains more than Clinton in persuasion.

7. Trump attacked Clinton on emails, and did a good job. His base needed that.

8. Clinton had to defend her “deplorables” comment. She said she regretted it. Regret isn’t what the public wanted to hear. That’s about her. They wanted to hear that she doesn’t think that way. She failed to address the emotional part of that topic, and that’s a persuasion fail.

9. Trump defended his “extreme” vetting fairly well, but he did miss a huge opportunity for reframing. Trump mentioned the need for Muslims to help the country by informing on known terrorists in their ranks. He could have gone a step farther and said that he takes responsibility for some Islamophobia by his tough talk, but the solution to Islamaphobia is not what Trump says or does going forward. The solution is for the community itself to self-police the bad elements in its ranks. You can think that is unfair – because it is – but it might be the only solution in the long run.

—

I talked to a Swiss local yesterday about American politics. He says everyone in Switzerland is following the race closely. He favors Trump because he thinks Trump would be better for the global economy. I asked if anyone he knows in Switzerland is worried about Trump’s “temperament” and having his finger on the nukes. The Swiss man literally laughed. I had trouble explaining why that was even a topic in the United States. Apparently their news sources filter out some of that stuff. He wasn’t worried and didn’t know anyone who is. (But this is a data point of one. Don’t assume too much.)

I also asked the Swiss man what kind of problems they have in Switzerland. He laughed again. The answer is “none.” Literally.

Good economy.

Plenty of jobs.

No racial strife.

Low crime rate.

Highest standard of living.

No real pollution.

No litter.

No homeless that I could see.

He also told me that it is illegal to build a mosque in Switzerland because they don’t want to change their national character, which is 95% Christian he estimated. He said (and I did not fact-check) that the Swiss allow no immigration at all unless the person has special skills or marries a citizen.

And the gun ownership in Switzerland is 100% for adult males. That’s their militia. Yet crime is low.

Make of that what you will. It’s simplistic to think that a total ban on immigration plus universal male gun-ownership helps Switzerland have no real problems. But you can’t rule it out, either.

Trump is trying to make America a bit more like Switzerland. Clinton is trying to make America less like Switzerland. Spend a day in Switzerland and tell me who has the better plan. This country is amazing.

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## T-72

Trump obliterated crooked Hillary here, no two ways about it.

The best part for me was when they debated Syria and Trump called her out for "she has no idea who these rebels are" and she responded with a "arm the kurds!" (nothing about the so called "rebels" who nobody can defend supporting.)

good stuff, hope he wins, and that the US and Russia can work together in the middle east and finish ISIS/FSA etc 

This might well turn out to be a BREXIT 2, with all the fake polls and corporate media screaming bloody murder till the last hour but still lose when regular people come out in huge numbers and do the right thing.

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## RabzonKhan

I’m loving it!



RabzonKhan said:


> You can remain in denial all you want, but the fact is, if it was really not a serious matter (as you want us to believe), an arrogant man like Trump would not have apologized twice.




*Poll: After Trump Tape Revelation, Clinton's Lead Up to Double Digits*

by CARRIE DANN




As Donald Trump's campaign reels over tapes of the presidential candidate's sexually aggressive comments about women in 2005, the Republican nominee now trails Hillary Clinton by double digits among likely voters, according to a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

The poll, conducted on Saturday and Sunday but before the second presidential debate, shows Clinton with 46 percent support among likely voters in a four-way matchup, compared to 35 percent for Trump.







Libertarian Gary Johnson's support stands at nine percent, and Green Party candidate Jill Stein garners two percent. In a head-to-head matchup, Clinton's lead over Trump grows to 14 percent (52 percent to Trump's 38 percent.)







And among all registered voters, Clinton's lead is 13 points, her largest advantage over Trump since the poll began testing the pair last September.

As Republicans grapple with how to hold on to control of the House and Senate despite the Trump campaign's woes, Democrats overall now have a seven-point advantage on the question of which party voters want to see in control of Congress.

*Forty-nine percent of voters say they'd like to see Democrats in power on Capitol Hill, compared to 42 percent who chose the GOP.*

That's up from a three-point advantage for Democrats (48 percent to 45 percent) last month, and it's the largest advantage for Democrats since the October 2009 government shutdown.

Although voters overall are split over the impact of the 2005 tape of Trump describing kissing and touching women's bodies without their consent, less than a quarter of Republicans say that the revelations should be grounds for other GOP Senate and House candidates to drop their backing of Trump (nine percent) or call for him to drop out of the race (14 percent.)

*A total of 52 percent of respondents say that the audiotape should be an issue in the campaign, while 42 percent say it should not be an issue.*

*While 31 percent of voters say Trump's comments about women were "Inappropriate, but typical of how some men talk in private with other men," a larger share - 41 percent - say the remarks were "completely unacceptable." Link*

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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151599421561/quick-debate-reactions-from-switzerland
> 
> Quick Debate Reactions from Switzerland
> 100+ Scott Adams' Blog
> 
> I just watched the debate on replay. Trump won bigly. This one wasn’t close. And keep in mind that I called Clinton the winner of the first debate, and I now endorse Gary Johnson, primarily to avoid being called an alleged enabler of alleged sex abusers and their alleged enablers. That basket of deplorables includes both Bill and Hillary Clinton (the alleged doer and the alleged cleaner-upper) plus Trump and his alleged misdeeds.
> 
> Some quick reactions…
> 
> 1. When the Access Hollywood tape came up, Trump dismissed it as locker room banter that he regrets. You expected that part. The persuasion move was that he quickly contrasted that “small” issue with images of ISIS beheadings, and cage-drownings. It was a high ground maneuver, a powerful visual anchor (like the Rosie O’Donnell move from his first primary debate), and a contrast play. In this framing, Trump cares about saving your life while Clinton cares about your choice of words. I realize the issue is Trump’s alleged deeds, not his words. But in terms of debate persuasion, Trump nailed it hard.
> 
> 2. Clinton’s body language was defensive. Trump is physically larger and prowled the stage. He won the optics. It only got worse when a fly landed on Clinton’s face mid-answer. Both candidates looked perfect in terms of wardrobe and hair, given what they have to work with.
> 
> 3. Trump threw in enough random details about Syria to persuade viewers that he knows more than they thought he knew. And he did a great job selling the idea that he knows more than the generals (as ridiculous as that sounds), at least in terms of not announcing where we plan to attack. I agree with the moderator who said there might be good reasons for announcing attacks – such as giving time for civilians to leave – but it wasn’t quite a counter-argument. Trump succeeded in looking informed on Syria, and at the same time reinforced the “can’t keep a secret” theme for Clinton.
> 
> 4. Trump’s pre-debate show with Bill’s alleged victims dismantled Clinton’s pro-woman high ground before the debate even started. I didn’t see the pre-debate show, but I assume it was impactful. It had to be. Clinton looked shaken from the start.
> 
> 5. The best quotable moments from the debate are pro-Trump. His comment about putting Clinton in jail has that marvelous visual persuasion quality about it, and it was the laugh of the night, which means it will be repeated endlessly. He also looked like he meant it.
> 
> Clinton’s Abe Lincoln defense for two-faced politicking failed as hard as anything can fail. Mrs. Clinton, I knew Abe Lincoln, and you’re no Abe Lincoln. You know that was in your head. Or it will be.
> 
> 6. Most of the rest was policy stuff that no one understands or cares about. We don’t know how to fix Obamacare or what to do with TPP. But by acting competent on these and other policy issues, Trump gains more than Clinton in persuasion.
> 
> 7. Trump attacked Clinton on emails, and did a good job. His base needed that.
> 
> 8. Clinton had to defend her “deplorables” comment. She said she regretted it. Regret isn’t what the public wanted to hear. That’s about her. They wanted to hear that she doesn’t think that way. She failed to address the emotional part of that topic, and that’s a persuasion fail.
> 
> 9. Trump defended his “extreme” vetting fairly well, but he did miss a huge opportunity for reframing. Trump mentioned the need for Muslims to help the country by informing on known terrorists in their ranks. He could have gone a step farther and said that he takes responsibility for some Islamophobia by his tough talk, but the solution to Islamaphobia is not what Trump says or does going forward. The solution is for the community itself to self-police the bad elements in its ranks. You can think that is unfair – because it is – but it might be the only solution in the long run.
> 
> —
> 
> I talked to a Swiss local yesterday about American politics. He says everyone in Switzerland is following the race closely. He favors Trump because he thinks Trump would be better for the global economy. I asked if anyone he knows in Switzerland is worried about Trump’s “temperament” and having his finger on the nukes. The Swiss man literally laughed. I had trouble explaining why that was even a topic in the United States. Apparently their news sources filter out some of that stuff. He wasn’t worried and didn’t know anyone who is. (But this is a data point of one. Don’t assume too much.)
> 
> I also asked the Swiss man what kind of problems they have in Switzerland. He laughed again. The answer is “none.” Literally.
> 
> Good economy.
> 
> Plenty of jobs.
> 
> No racial strife.
> 
> Low crime rate.
> 
> Highest standard of living.
> 
> No real pollution.
> 
> No litter.
> 
> No homeless that I could see.
> 
> He also told me that it is illegal to build a mosque in Switzerland because they don’t want to change their national character, which is 95% Christian he estimated. He said (and I did not fact-check) that the Swiss allow no immigration at all unless the person has special skills or marries a citizen.
> 
> And the gun ownership in Switzerland is 100% for adult males. That’s their militia. Yet crime is low.
> 
> Make of that what you will. It’s simplistic to think that a total ban on immigration plus universal male gun-ownership helps Switzerland have no real problems. But you can’t rule it out, either.
> 
> Trump is trying to make America a bit more like Switzerland. Clinton is trying to make America less like Switzerland. Spend a day in Switzerland and tell me who has the better plan. This country is amazing.



Interesting read.

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## Desert Fox

Everyone's saying Trump won the debate.






From BuzzFeed

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## WaLeEdK2

Desert Fox said:


> Everyone's saying Trump won the debate.
> 
> View attachment 342490
> 
> 
> From BuzzFeed
> 
> View attachment 342491


There's no questioning it. You can tell Hillary put on her fake smile half the debate.

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## Akasa

Pence and Trump certainly learned their lessons from the first Presidential debate.

I was hoping that they would focus more on Hillary's Clinton Foundation scandal, the uranium scandal involving the Russians, and of course, the emails. 

But nevertheless, Trump had a definitive and clear-cut tax/healthcare strategy whilst Hillary's biggest weapon was, you guessed it, attacking Trump's personality.

It would be a matter of time before US citizens realize that economic and foreign policy matter far more than Trump's alleged lewd comments regarding women (which, again, would be overshadowed by Bill Clinton's deeds).

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## Desert Fox

WaLeEdK2 said:


> There's no questioning it. You can tell Hillary put on her fake smile half the debate.



Yeah and plus she stuttered a couple of times as well which showed her nervousness. And where she kept bringing up her website as a rebuttal to Trump also made her counterargument weak.

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## Desert Fox

Lol @Nilgiri @T-72M1 @C130

















Lmao THE NO FLY ZONE

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## RabzonKhan

Post debate polls show that Hillary was the winner of the second presidential debate, though Trump fared better than the first presidential debate. Bty, as usual, throughout the debate, Trump lied like hell. 




*Clinton wins debate, but Trump exceeds expectations*

(CNN)Donald Trump exceeded expectations, but Hillary Clinton won the second presidential debate, according to a CNN / ORC poll of debate watchers. The results showed a clear victory for Clinton, with *57% saying Clinton won, as opposed to 34% for Trump.*

It's a strong showing for Clinton, but not as good as her performance at the first presidential debate, when 62% of debate watchers said she won. *Read more*


*Post-debate poll: Clinton 47%, Trump 42%*

According to YouGov's post-debate poll, which interviewed 812 registered voters who watched the debate, *Hillary Clinton won the debate against Donald Trump by 47% to 42%.* Clinton narrowly won undecideds 44% to 41%. She was also considered “more Presidential” by a 57% to 31% margin. There was a gender gap, however: women thought Clinton won by 50-38%, while men thought Trump won by 46-43%.

71% also say Trump interrupted more often, compared to 7% who thought Clinton interrupted more. *Read more*

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## Gandhi G in da house

You see Trump having more supporters on the internet and even during these debates in the audience but all polls show Hillary winning comfortably. Whatsup with that ?


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## Desert Fox

nick_indian said:


> You see Trump having more supporters on the internet and even during these debates in the audience but all polls show Hillary winning comfortably. Whatsup with that ?



It's similar to the Brexit where the media kept portraying the polls were overwhelmingly in favor of Remain when in fact most people were for Leave.

The biased Mindstream Media portrays a distorted image in order to push a pro-Hillary agenda when in reality she has very few supporters in comparison to Trump.

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## Nilgiri

nick_indian said:


> You see Trump having more supporters on the internet and even during these debates in the audience but all polls show Hillary winning comfortably. Whatsup with that ?



Mainstream Media is very pro-Hillary.

You need not look further than the sampling spread of the MSM polls and check the democrat bias....and compare that to say the LAtimes polls which at least ask the same group of (initially randomly selected) people over time.

Reuters/IPSOS was actually found to skew their sampling correction when it provided results they did not like.

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## Tiger Genie

can we postpone elections by a year or two, so we can continue to enjoy such raunchy comedy some more?

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## Desert Fox

Did anyone else notice the fly on Hillary's face?? She didn't even bother removing it from her face

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## Desert Fox

@Nilgiri @T-72M1 @C130 @boomslang 

For the Clinton News Network (CNN)

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> @Nilgiri @T-72M1 @C130 @boomslang
> 
> For the Clinton News Network (CNN)
> 
> View attachment 342523
> 
> 
> View attachment 342522
> 
> 
> View attachment 342524
> 
> 
> View attachment 342525



Let me post here what I posted in another forum:

Trump needs as many independents and first time/non-regular voters he can muster (esp in Swing states and vulnerable blue states).....on the anti-Hillary front (rather than as pro-himself...since those people who are have already made up their minds and will be voting for him pretty much no matter what).

The final debate is where he will have to continue where he left on in this one....while repeating the salient points and adding to them (Bill history, Hillary attacking those female victims because of it, Clinton foundation, emails, Benghazi, Hillary typical disgusting behaviour and quotes). This is because the MSM will not follow up or cover these issues in any major way.

In fact next debate he should not cut short about describing Bill Clinton i.e he needs to expand the description as what he did (which was not just locker room talk) being on the scale of repugnant on a WORLD level for a politician....and actually bring out direct Hillary quotes and actions regarding Bill's rape victims.

Oh and he should say he's not just putting Hillary in jail. He should extend it to Obama and his entire administration, and be very clear about why....focusing on complicity, irrelevance of intent in light of negligence (bring up the drunk driving analogy explicitly) and Obama and his administration's role in this (bring in the FBI cuck and attorney general as required).

To top it off, he needs to say....this is how democrat party sleaze politics operates....you can start a whole "birther" movement to try insinuate something when politically convenient....then put that aside, laugh it off (it will time nicely because hillary will be doing her awkward disgusting smile at this point)....and work for the very same person, who for his own disgusting reasons shields you as well (i.e sleazeball politics). But then should we surprised of the politically induced hypocrisy when (insert her reaction to Bill Clinton rape/assaults here)? I'm sorry but being someone with NO political history or need to whore myself out against my moral and ethical fibres (which clearly do no exist in the political class generally)...I will call for investigation and prosecution of this wicked witch and the whole treasonous and utterly corrupt and morally and ethically devoid administration of Obama. Someone who can do THAT, has temperament for being a president. End of story.

Trump team need to focus on putting the icing on this cake as perfectly as possible.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Desert Fox said:


> @Nilgiri @T-72M1 @C130 @boomslang
> 
> For the Clinton News Network (CNN)
> 
> View attachment 342523
> 
> 
> View attachment 342522
> 
> 
> View attachment 342524
> 
> 
> View attachment 342525



Dude look what I found.






The whole thing is a bloody scandal.

American media has lost my respect.

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## Nilgiri

nick_indian said:


> American media has lost my respect.



No mainstream media anywhere should have your respect to begin with.

They are almost all extensions of political classes, which are the most vile disgusting creatures on planet earth.

Thank god for the internet!

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## T-72

watch the full event on YouTube on *Right Side Broadcasting*

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## Desert Fox

nick_indian said:


> Dude look what I found.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The whole thing is a bloody scandal.
> 
> American media has lost my respect.


I'm not surprised. That's why it's called the *C*linton *N*ews *N*etwork for a reason. I wouldn't be surprised if other Mainstream Media networks and tabloids are doing the same thing by promoting Hillary Clinton. Which is why @RabzonKhan 96% of Americans (100% rather) don't trust the MSM and all of their self inflated polls in favor of Hillary.

*You know Trump is the good guy when the entire corrupt, war mongering Political establishment and it's media arms are all doing their best to bring him down and prevent him from becoming POTUS. *​

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## Darmashkian

Here is the video "Because you would be in jail" !!






------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...conspiring_for_weeks_to_bring_down_trump.html

Jerry Falwell jr. an important conservative figure blames establishment repubs for trying to bring down Trump. According to rumors+gossip on Twitter. It was a GOP guy who leaked the videos to Washington Post to make sure establishment repubs could disavow trump.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785692704906719232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785668951913091072
I find this hard to believe
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


nick_indian said:


> Dude look what I found.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The whole thing is a bloody scandal.
> 
> American media has lost my respect.


@nick_indian
Much of the American Media ecosystem is heavily leftist-liberal & pro-Democratic.

Washington Post, NYTimes etc-Newspapers
NBC(Nothing but Clinton) ,MSNBC(Making Sure Nothing But Clinton),CNN(Clinton News Network),ABC-TV Networks
VOX,Salon,mother Hill,Huffington Post,Quartz-Internet Outlets

All of them are pro-Dem. Even many of these fact checkers have been documented to be pro-Dem!
Bernie says something- Somewhat True
Trump says the same thing-Totally false/Pants on fire -_-

The Dems have a very strong media ecosystem, they more or less dominate the globally cum nationally renowned newspapers the same way the Congress did/does in our nation!!

& are just as biased as they are! @Nilgiri is bang on. That's why the MSM media is so hated & despised in both our nations & that's why not so many trust their reporting on trump.

According to a report leaked by Wikileaks,Hillary invited 60+ journos from these major networks for an "informal" "off the record" discussion..

I don't like Trump at all, but his opposition is equally shameless & disgusting in their own way.
Except they are smart enough not to make it public & hid it as far as possible..But some things cant be hidden forever
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just check how the Media colluded with DNC officials & the Clinton Campaign to rig the Democratic Primaries & grant Clinton an easy victory over Bernie!

Hell,even the then Chairman of the DNC- Debbie Wasserman Schulz
(Supposed to be the "impartial" leader during primary time )worked to stop Bernie!! She conspired with the Hillary campaign to defame him & illustrate the fact he was a Jew to stop Xian Voters in the South from voting for him.
She was later, forced to resign when these allegations came out thanks to wikileaks.
https://www.rt.com/usa/356067-wasserman-schultz-boasts-clinton/

*& even her replacement chairman-Donna Brazile now faces the same charges!!*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785573145700892673http://observer.com/2016/10/breakin...zile-leaked-sanders-info-to-clinton-campaign/

& how many Media guys are showing this?? Almost NONE!!

& magnanimous Bernie is still campaigning for Hillary out there because of the threat of Trump to the nation (similar to his words)& nobody in the DNC still has the shame to publicly apologize for discrimination against his campaign & wronging him.

Hillary should have smashed an old socialist (who didn't say a word about her emails & her other suspicious activities which would have hurt her) with the DNC & it's officials on her side. Yet he gave him a tough fight -_-

Then,how in the world is she supposed to be 10 ,forget 50 points ahead of Trump?

When she has so many scandals behind her!!?

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brave Tulsi Gabbard endorsed Bernie & risked her career seeing how HC's people threaten her

"Former Clinton Foundation director, Darnell Strom of the Creative Artist Agency, wrote a condescending email to Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard after she resigned from the DNC to endorse Bernie Sanders, which he then forwarded to Clinton campaign staff. “_For you to endorse a man who has spent almost 40 years in public office with very few accomplishments, doesn’t fall in line with what we previously thought of you. Hillary Clinton will be our party’s nominee and you standing on ceremony to support the sinking Bernie Sanders ship is disrespectful to Hillary Clinton_,” wrote Strom."

------------------------------------------------
Many non-Americans don't know how dangerous Hillary Clinton is!

I thought she was an amazing person a few months back,when I read her U-Turns,scandals,her past & the Indo-US nuclear deal(she took chanda from Amar Singh & Sant singh chatwal to agree to the deal) etc etc
Her supposed links with missionaries & Islamist frighten me(some are true )

I then released what flawed humans *both* candidates are!!

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## CorporateAffairs

"Bill"ary doesnt need any of these debates. 
She already won, she's got the establishment behind her.
USA polls most rigged.

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## cleverrider

CorporateAffairs said:


> "Bill"ary doesnt need any of these debates.
> She already won, she's got the establishment behind her.
> USA polls most rigged.



That’s what everyone thought during Brexit, not just the local establishment, European and the international establishment was not in favour. The rest is history, do not underestimate western democracies.



Desert Fox said:


> Oh yeah definitely. He thrashed her through the entire debate. All she replied with was "its all completely false, go to HillaryClinton.com"




On the Election Day just go to Hilary facts checker. Of course it’s your website, it will be all in your favour. It’s like doing an essay or a project and creating a website for that purpose so you can quote it. A very much weak source, at least refer people to a mutual source if a not a credible one.

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## RabzonKhan

Another important Republican leaning newspaper from the swing state has endorsed Hillary. The Ohio newspaper has never endorsed a Democrat since Woodrow Wilson ran 100 years ago. 










*Editorial: For president | Trump unfit, Clinton is qualified*

October 9, 2016

*Like millions of Americans, The Dispatch editorial board has asked this question more than once: How, in a nation of more than 300 million people, did we end up with two such disliked and distrusted presidential candidates?*

At the same time, we worry that this dismaying choice will cause some voters to throw up their hands and pass on this election. We urge voters to do their homework, cut through the half-truths and lies, and go to the polls with facts.

*For us, the choice between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump is not pleasant, but it isn’t difficult. Republican candidate Donald Trump is unfit to be president of the United States. Democrat Hillary Clinton, despite her flaws, is well-equipped for the job.*

*The Dispatch traditionally has endorsed Republican presidential candidates, but Trump does not espouse or support traditional Republican values, such as fiscal prudence, limited government and free trade, not to mention civility and decency. We are disappointed that so many Republican leaders have accommodated a narcissistic, morally bankrupt candidate who is so clearly out of step with those values.*

*While third parties offer a tempting way out of the dilemma, votes cast for the Libertarian or Green Party tickets could have the effect of helping Trump win the White House.*

Clinton has spent a career spanning decades in politics as First Lady, U.S. senator and U.S. secretary of state, and has a long record of service to families, women and children.

*The art of compromise, which once was respected by Republicans and Democrats in Congress, and which allowed for progress rather than gridlock, is one that Clinton understands and practices. She demonstrated that not only in the Senate, but as the nation’s chief diplomat.*

She is well-known to foreign leaders and understands that world order depends upon a U.S. foreign policy that is committed to its international obligations. The United States is the most stabilizing force in a world prone to chaos, and she knows that role is not something to be trifled with on a whim, as Trump’s reckless pronouncements would do.

Yes, Clinton has faced controversy: These include allegations of corruption; convenient memory lapses, particularly while being questioned during investigations; lies such as the one about coming under sniper fire in Bosnia; and difficulty in admitting when she is wrong. Her use of a private email server that exposed secret State Department communications to interception was reckless, and her attempts to minimize and cover up the scandal damaged her further.

Preferring Clinton to Trump does not mean the Dispatch embraces all elements of her platform. Her calls for higher taxes, unsustainable spending and the likelihood that she will try to stack the U.S. Supreme Court with a left-leaning majority are unwelcome.

*But her negatives pale when measured against the dangers posed by Trump.*

*He has proved himself a liar of epic proportion. He is a bigot, a braggart and an admirer of foreign thugs such as Russia’s Vladimir Putin. He is reckless and thin-skinned. He has demeaned Mexicans, demonized Muslims, insulted women and mocked the disabled.*

*His economic policies, to the extent that they can be analyzed, would at least double the national debt.* His call for punishing tariffs on foreign goods would trigger retaliation and ignite a trade war with disastrous results for employment and the standard of living in the United States.

*The stakes are too high to sit out this election and risk letting Trump misuse the awesome power of the presidency. The Dispatch urges voters to elect Hillary Clinton. Link*


----------



## Husnainshah

Though I personally don't agree with some of Hillary's policies, she'd indeed more qualified to be The President of The U.S in my opinion. It's a shame Trump doesn't have the temperament to be The President of The U.S. He has better immigration, Trade, Foreign Policy with regards to Russia, Mexico and NATO than Hillary but that's not gonna help. At the end of the day, he's not winning the election. That I'm sure of.


----------



## RabzonKhan

In the second debate a Muslim woman asked Trump to address prejudices against Islam and Muslims and how he will help millions of Muslims deal with its consequences. Trump said Islamophobia was a shame, whether we like it or not, there is a problem, *“when Muslims see something going on, have to report it”*

In response, Muslims have started a hashtag #MuslimsReportStuff on twitter:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785605691176259584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785305155638026240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785303567875903488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785325663708250112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785299676228571137


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## cirr

Last debate between the two presidential candidates through the eye of ordinary Chinese

http://www.bilibili.com/video/av6636896/?zw

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## maximuswarrior

LMAO Try defending this.


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## T-72




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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


>



Still a whole lot better than grabbing genitals of females.


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## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> Still a whole lot better than grabbing genitals of females.


like I said earlier, DT being lewd in a private conversation probably did not surprise a whole lot of people, and he's been on record saying a lot of stuff about women (their breasts, *** etc) earlier so all of this outrage is manufactured and has only served as fuel to further enrage those who already hate him, he's not going to lose his supporters.

Clinton's corruption is a more substantive issue.

last Trump rally, 20k Turnout

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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> like I said earlier, DT being lewd in a private conversation probably did not surprise a whole lot of people, and he's been on record saying a lot of stuff about women (their breasts, *** etc) earlier so all of this outrage is manufactured and has only served as fuel to further enrage those who already hate him, he's not going to lose his supporters.
> 
> Clinton's corruption is a more substantive issue.
> 
> last Trump rally, 20k Turnout



No, it didn't surprise, but only outraged a lot of people. Good luck wit winning the elections now. You don't have to convince me how righteous and truth Trump is by posting this videos and still images. His rallies don't impress me. Any entertainer can gather people and put up a circus show.

I have already said this a million times. I would be very glad if Trump won the elections. The American people deserve a hatemonger like Trump.


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## T-72



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## maximuswarrior

*US election: Trump presidency 'dangerous', says UN rights chief*

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37628345

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## RabzonKhan

Sick pervert! Let's see how many of his supporters will defend him now?


*Teen Beauty Queens Say Trump Walked In On Them Changing

“Don’t worry, ladies, I’ve seen it all before.”

BuzzFeed News
Oct. 12, 2016

Four women who competed in the 1997 Miss Teen USA beauty pageant said Donald Trump walked into the dressing room while contestants — some as young as 15 — were changing.*

“I remember putting on my dress really quick because I was like, ‘Oh my god, there’s a man in here,’” said Mariah Billado, the former Miss Vermont Teen USA.

Trump, she recalled, said something like, “Don’t worry, ladies, I’ve seen it all before.”

Three other women, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of getting engulfed in a media firestorm, also remembered Trump entering the dressing room while girls were changing. Two of them said the girls rushed to cover their bodies, with one calling it “shocking” and “creepy.” The third said she was clothed and introduced herself to Trump.

Eleven of that year’s contestants reached by BuzzFeed News did not recall seeing Trump in the dressing room. Some said they do not believe he could have been there.

Discussion of Trump entering the room arose among the women themselves last weekend in a private Facebook group after BuzzFeed News reported that a contestant in an adult pageant said Trump had walked into the changing room when “we were all naked.” The Facebook group is open only to some former contestants in the 1997 pageant, according to several women who are in it and who described the exchange about Trump to BuzzFeed News.

Altogether, BuzzFeed News attempted to contact 49 of the 51 contestants at that pageant. Thirty-four declined to talk or could not be reached. Of the 15 women who were interviewed, none accused Trump of saying anything sexually explicit or of making physical contact in the dressing room.

Ever since the release last week of a 2005 tape in which Trump boasted about grabbing women “by the pussy” and said he “did try and ****” a married woman, his campaign has been reeling. Trump dismissed his comments on the tape as “locker room talk,” but it has put his treatment of women under intense focus.

*Trump, who owned the Miss Universe, Miss USA, and Miss Teen USA pageants from 1996 until last year, has publicly bragged about invading beauty queen dressing rooms, calling it one of his prerogatives of ownership.

“I’ll tell you the funniest is that I’ll go backstage before a show and everyone’s getting dressed,” Trump told Howard Stern in recordings released Saturday by CNN. “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it. … ‘Is everyone OK?’ You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”*

Until now it was never alleged that this behavior extended to the teen pageant, in which contestants can be as old as 19 or as young as 14.

The Trump campaign and the Trump Organization did not respond to requests for comment. The Miss Universe Organization, which runs Miss Teen USA, declined to comment.

The 1997 teen pageant — Trump’s first as owner — was held on South Padre Island, Texas. His daughter Ivanka Trump, then 15 years old, served as co-host.

The dressing room was described by multiple contestants as one large, long, open space with 51 stations, one for each contestant, lined up against the walls. Cutting through the middle of the room were racks of clothing. Girls did not have individual partitions shielding their station from the rest of the space, and it was often bustling with stylists, pageant officials, and other crew members coming and going.

Of the 11 women who said they don’t remember Trump coming into the changing room, some said it was possible that it happened while they weren’t in the room or that they didn’t notice. But most were dubious or dismissed the possibility out of hand.

“There were so many chaperones I can’t even fathom” him doing so, said Jessica Granata, the former Miss Massachusetts Teen USA. “It was very secure.”

Allison Bowman, former Miss Wisconsin Teen USA, cast doubt on whether it happened. “These were teenage girls,” Bowman said. “If anything inappropriate had gone on, the gossip would have flown.”

“There was way too much security,” said Crystal Hughes, the former Miss Maine Teen USA. “If that was something he did, then everybody would have noticed.”

Asked why some of her fellow contestants said he did enter the changing room, Hughes responded, “They’re probably lying because they are voting for Hillary Clinton.”

*“I don’t support either” Trump or Clinton, said Billado, the former Miss Vermont. Of the other three who remember Trump coming into the dressing room, one said she was also undecided but would not vote for Trump, and another said she’s a Democrat. A third said she was not voting for Trump and wouldn’t say more because “this is not about politics.” But, she added, “When he started running for president, that is one of the first things I thought about: Oh, gross, this guy walked in on us in the pageant.” Girls were “just scrambling to grab stuff,” she said, “whatever garments they had.”*

*One of the other women who asked to be anonymous, who was 17, said, “At the time, you’re a teenager, you’re intimidated — it’s Donald Trump, he runs the pageant.” And it felt, she said, like “it was his given right” to enter the dressing rooms “because he owned the pageant.”*

*She added, “We were all very young, but even at the time, it caught us funny.” Now, “as an adult and as a mother,” she said she finds it “absolutely inappropriate.”*

The third woman who asked to be anonymous was 15 at the time and said she was fully dressed and doing her makeup when Trump walked in. “I was like, ‘Hi, my name is —’ and I introduced myself.” She said she “had no idea” who he was, except that he was the owner of the pageant.

*Most of the women had fond recollections of Ivanka Trump, who, they said, came into the changing room to mingle. Billado said she told Ivanka about Donald Trump entering the room while the girls were changing their clothes. Billado remembers Ivanka answering, “Yeah, he does that.”*

Asked about this by email, neither the campaign nor the Trump Organization responded.

“I remember it shocking me,” Billado said. “I barely let anybody except my sister see me getting dressed.”

She viewed Trump’s intrusion into the dressing room “was more of a pompous ‘I own this place’ rather than a perverted thing.” Still, she said, “I would never let my daughter run for a pageant that he owns.”


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## T-72

RabzonKhan said:


> Sick pervert! Let's see how many of his supporters will defend him now?
> *
> “Don’t worry, ladies, I’ve seen it all before.”
> 
> She viewed Trump’s intrusion into the dressing room “was more of a pompous ‘I own this place’ rather than a perverted thing.”
> 
> *


what sick pervert, the man was a billionaire boss running a beauty pageant. He wont lose support over any of this petty nonsense.



=========================
Trump rally Livestream:


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## RabzonKhan

There goes Trump and his supporter’s favorite poll. 









*Link*


----------



## spectribution

Trump crushed Hillary in 2nd Debate. Even NBC says he won on morning show. Pakistanis are worried as Trump means no more dole money.


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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> Post debate polls show that Hillary was the winner of the second presidential debate, though Trump fared better than the first presidential debate. Bty, as usual, throughout the debate, Trump lied like hell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Clinton wins debate, but Trump exceeds expectations*
> 
> (CNN)Donald Trump exceeded expectations, but Hillary Clinton won the second presidential debate, according to a CNN / ORC poll of debate watchers. The results showed a clear victory for Clinton, with *57% saying Clinton won, as opposed to 34% for Trump.*
> 
> It's a strong showing for Clinton, but not as good as her performance at the first presidential debate, when 62% of debate watchers said she won. *Read more*
> 
> 
> *Post-debate poll: Clinton 47%, Trump 42%*
> 
> According to YouGov's post-debate poll, which interviewed 812 registered voters who watched the debate, *Hillary Clinton won the debate against Donald Trump by 47% to 42%.* Clinton narrowly won undecideds 44% to 41%. She was also considered “more Presidential” by a 57% to 31% margin. There was a gender gap, however: women thought Clinton won by 50-38%, while men thought Trump won by 46-43%.
> 
> 71% also say Trump interrupted more often, compared to 7% who thought Clinton interrupted more. *Read more*


*Poll: Hillary Clinton won the second debate*

Hillary Clinton won the second debate and leads Donald Trump by five points in a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll that also shows voters perceive the Republican Party bitterly divided four weeks before Election Day.

Clinton leads Trump in the four-way race for the presidency among likely voters, 42 percent to 37 percent, with Gary Johnson at 10 percent and Jill Stein at three percent. In the initial two-way ballot, Clinton's lead is also five points, 46 percent to 41 percent.* Read more*



*Trump trails Clinton by 8 points after tape scandal, debate: Reuters/Ipsos poll*

"Donald Trump has fallen further behind Hillary Clinton and now trails her by 8 points among likely voters, according to a new Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll, with 1 in 5 Republicans saying his vulgar comments about groping women disqualify him from the presidency."

"Among those who said they watched at least portions of the debate, 53 percent said Clinton won while 32 percent said Trump won. The results fell along partisan lines, however: 82 percent of Democrats felt Clinton won, while 68 percent of Republicans felt that Trump won." *Read more*


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## T-72




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## RabzonKhan




----------



## iPhone

this dude is done. he's gonna loose that much is given but I wanna see his business crash and burn in the wake of his racist and hateful election campaign.


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## Nilgiri




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## T-72



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## maximuswarrior

Too bad for BJP. Seems Trump gonna lose. Hillary is bulldozing the orange head in every poll.

To make matters worse:

*US Election 2016: Trump 'groped woman like an octopus'*

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37639839


----------



## Gandhi G in da house

maximuswarrior said:


> Too bad for BJP. Seems Trump gonna lose. Hillary is bulldozing the orange head in every poll.
> 
> To make matters worse:
> 
> *US Election 2016: Trump 'groped woman like an octopus'*
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37639839



Hilly will win but she wont be much better for Pakistan than Trump. Pakistanis thought Obama would be better than Bush for them since his name is Barack "Hussain" Obama. I remeber how happy they were back in 2009. Turned out he increased the drone strikes, publicly humiliated Pakistan with the Osama raid and never visited Pakistan even once in 8 years. Hillary will be pretty much the same.


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## maximuswarrior

nick_indian said:


> Hilly will win but she wont be much better for Pakistan than Trump. Pakistanis thought Obama would be better than Bush for them since his name is Barack "Hussain" Obama. I remeber how happy they were back in 2009. Turned out he increased the drone strikes, publicly humiliated Pakistan with the Osama raid and never visited Pakistan even once in 8 years. Hillary will be pretty much the same.



Does it look like we care? Hillary, Trump, Obama can all go to hell. Pakistan will do whatever it deems fit. What good are these American leaders who are trolled and distrusted by their own people? Just follow the elections and get an idea. 

No one cares about the US anymore. The US has become synonymous for waging illegitimate wars and seeking trouble with other nations. The US has problems with most major powers. Pakistan isn't an exception. From Russia to China and Iran. The list goes on.


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## Gandhi G in da house

maximuswarrior said:


> Does it look like we care? Hillary, trump, Obama can go to hell. Pakistan will do whatever it deems fit.



Of course. Just like North Korea.


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## maximuswarrior

nick_indian said:


> Of course. Just like North Korea.



LOL A North Korea, Russia, China, Iran etc. Name them as well and don't forget them conveninetly.

Like I said, no one cares about the USA and in Trump's own words no one respect them anymore.


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## Gandhi G in da house

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL A North Korea, Russia, China, Iran. Name them as well.



Russia, China, Iran aren't dependent on American aid and are self sufficient countries.


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## maximuswarrior

nick_indian said:


> Russia, China, Iran aren't dependent on American aid and are self sufficient countries.



Is that the only argument you Indians got after you always lose an argument?

LOL


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## Gandhi G in da house

maximuswarrior said:


> Is that the only argument you Indians got after you always lose an argument?
> 
> LOL



Posting Random pictures of 10 Right Wing Hindus shows you ve lost the argument and have nothing left to say. Anyway, let this thread be about Trump and not India or BJP.

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## maximuswarrior

nick_indian said:


> Posting Random pictures of 10 Right Wing Hindus shows you ve lost the argument and have nothing left to say. Anyway, let this thread be about Trump and not India or BJP.



Random?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...self-to-Donald-Trump/articleshow/53592711.cms

http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...lary-clinton-us-presidential-election/413562/

Doesn't look like Swamy is a random figure to me.

Extremist Indian elements are literally obsessed with Trump and the reason why many of you are supporting him in this election is because he hates Muslims and has promised to pick a fight with Pakistan. Let's face it, India is largely an extreme society because they have elected an extremist leader Modi. Let's call a spade a spade. You can't hide behind the argument "10 Right Wing Hindus".

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## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> you Indians


please don't spoil this thread with your Hindu/Muslim and India/Pak bs, there are about a million other discussions on this board for you to go and vent on those issues.

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## Russell

so ummm....who was meant to bring the token black guy?

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## Desert Fox

*Jill Stein: Trump Is Less Dangerous Than Clinton; She Will Start Nuclear War With Russia*

*



*
​Green party presidential candidate Jill Stein: Donald Trump is less scary on foreign wars, because he wants to work with Russia.


JILL STEIN: "It's important to look at where we are going. It's not just a moment in time, but where has the strategy of voting for the lesser evil taken us? 

All these times you have been told to but for the lesser evil because you didn't want the wars, or the meltdown of the climate, or the offshoring of our jobs, or the attack on immigrants or the massive bailout for Wall Street, but that is actually what we have gotten. By the droves. 

Because we with public interest allow ourselves to be silent and vote for the lesser evil. But the lesser evil doesn't solve the problem. 

The Obama administration, even with both houses of Congress, actually did all of these fossil fuel emissions. "All of the above" gave us some renewable energy but it completely amplified and intensified our film production, which has been incredibly destructive to the climate. 

The wars have gotten bigger, we are now bombing seven countries.

It is important to not just look at the rhetoric but also look at the track record and the reality is the lesser people and greater people is a race to the bottom, and even Donald Trump in the right wing extremism grows out of the policies of the Clintons, in particular Nafta, which sent our jobs overseas and Wall Street deregulation, which blew 9 million jobs up into smoke. 

That is what is creating this right wing extremism. A v*ote for Hillary Clinton isn't going to fix it...*

*It is now Hillary Clinton that wants to start an air war with Russia over Syria by calling for a no fly zone. *

We have 2000 nuclear missiles on hairtrigger alert. They are saying we are closer to a nuclear war than we have ever been. 

*Under Hillary Clinton, we could slide into nuclear war very quickly from her declared policy in Syria. *

I sure won't sleep well at night if Donald Trump is elected, but I sure won't sleep well at night if Hillary Clinton elected. We have another choice other than these two candidates who are both promoting lethal policies. 

On the issue of war and nuclear weapons, it is actually Hillary's policies which are much scarier than Donald Trump who does not want to go to war with Russia. 

*He wants to seek modes of working together, which is the route that we need to follow not to go into confrontation and nuclear war with Russia."*

​

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## T-72




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## CorporateAffairs

Trump is already out.
Billary will be horrible news for USA.
Pity Americans!


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## Russell

CorporateAffairs said:


> Trump is already out.
> Billary will be horrible news for USA.
> Pity Americans!


Sad!
Low energy, small handed Trump will lose BIGLY!

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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> please don't spoil this thread with your Hindu/Muslim and India/Pak bs, there are about a million other discussions on this board for you to go and vent on those issues.



Don't lecture me you fool. It is your buddy who dragged Pakistan into this discussion as you Indians always do. I merely replied and put him in his place. Deal with it.



CorporateAffairs said:


> Trump is already out.
> Billary will be horrible news for USA.
> Pity Americans!



LOL weren't you not so long ago predicting a clean slate for Trump? What happened? A conspiracy by the left and the media perhaps?



Desert Fox said:


> *Jill Stein: Trump Is Less Dangerous Than Clinton; She Will Start Nuclear War With Russia*
> 
> *
> View attachment 343224
> *
> ​Green party presidential candidate Jill Stein: Donald Trump is less scary on foreign wars, because he wants to work with Russia.
> 
> 
> JILL STEIN: "It's important to look at where we are going. It's not just a moment in time, but where has the strategy of voting for the lesser evil taken us?
> 
> All these times you have been told to but for the lesser evil because you didn't want the wars, or the meltdown of the climate, or the offshoring of our jobs, or the attack on immigrants or the massive bailout for Wall Street, but that is actually what we have gotten. By the droves.
> 
> Because we with public interest allow ourselves to be silent and vote for the lesser evil. But the lesser evil doesn't solve the problem.
> 
> The Obama administration, even with both houses of Congress, actually did all of these fossil fuel emissions. "All of the above" gave us some renewable energy but it completely amplified and intensified our film production, which has been incredibly destructive to the climate.
> 
> The wars have gotten bigger, we are now bombing seven countries.
> 
> It is important to not just look at the rhetoric but also look at the track record and the reality is the lesser people and greater people is a race to the bottom, and even Donald Trump in the right wing extremism grows out of the policies of the Clintons, in particular Nafta, which sent our jobs overseas and Wall Street deregulation, which blew 9 million jobs up into smoke.
> 
> That is what is creating this right wing extremism. A v*ote for Hillary Clinton isn't going to fix it...*
> 
> *It is now Hillary Clinton that wants to start an air war with Russia over Syria by calling for a no fly zone. *
> 
> We have 2000 nuclear missiles on hairtrigger alert. They are saying we are closer to a nuclear war than we have ever been.
> 
> *Under Hillary Clinton, we could slide into nuclear war very quickly from her declared policy in Syria. *
> 
> I sure won't sleep well at night if Donald Trump is elected, but I sure won't sleep well at night if Hillary Clinton elected. We have another choice other than these two candidates who are both promoting lethal policies.
> 
> On the issue of war and nuclear weapons, it is actually Hillary's policies which are much scarier than Donald Trump who does not want to go to war with Russia.
> 
> *He wants to seek modes of working together, which is the route that we need to follow not to go into confrontation and nuclear war with Russia."*
> 
> ​



You are truly crazy. Posting this crap is an insult. LMAO Clinton will start a nuclear war against Russia. Man, this thread is filled with some really crazy people.


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## T-72

Trump rally live 






@Desert Fox @Nilgiri @LA se Karachi 

spicy stuff, this

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## Russell

Low energy Trump is down scaling his team and operations in Virginia - Big surprise. Virginia was a republican state until Obama came around and is definitely a toss up this time around...so, for Trump to decrease his ground team as opposed to increasing it, tells a story all on its own.

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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> Trump rally live
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Desert Fox @Nilgiri @LA se Karachi
> 
> spicy stuff, this



LMAO you mean a rally where women, Mexicans and Muslims are denigrated. Very spicy indeed.



Russell said:


> Low energy Trump is down scaling his team and operations in Virginia - Big surprise. Virginia was a republican state until Obama came around and is definitely a toss up this time around...so, for Trump to decrease his ground team as opposed to increasing it, tells a story all on its own.



Orange head knows it. It is over.


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## Russell

So, one of the occasions when the US stepped in to genuinely help in a humanitarian situation - the genocide of Bosnians by the Serbs and this is what Trump thought of that....

Look up Sbernica!!

Europeans really are weirdt - 3 genocides in Europe and they were willing to stand by and watch it.

Armenian Genocide
Holocaust
Bosnians



> "The bombing of Serbs, who were our allies in both world wars, was a big mistake,” Trump told the Serbian weekly magazine _Nedeljnik_ for an article published on its website Thursday. “Serbians are very good people. Unfortunately, the Clinton administration caused them a lot of harm, but also throughout the Balkans, which they made a mess out of."



His supporters are neo nazis and he hates muslims...it really is brilliant

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## maximuswarrior

Russell said:


> So, one of the occasions when the US stepped in to genuinely help in a humanitarian situation - the gencide of Bosnians by the Serbs and this is what Trump thought of that....
> 
> 
> 
> His supporters are neo nazis and he hates muslims...it really is brilliant



Trump is a KKK poster boy. The guy pretends he doesn't know David Duke LMAO How about grabbing women by their genitals? Talk about digging your own grave. Let's not kid ourselves. Many Americans relate to his ideas. That is very concerning regardless of the election outcome.


----------



## Russell

maximuswarrior said:


> Trump is a KKK poster boy. The guy pretends he doesn't know David Duke LMAO How about grabbing women by their genitals. Talk about digging your grave.


He constantly retweets white genocide and white nationalist twitter accounts 

He's funny because, you know he doesn't believe ANY of the things he says---he's gone from a ban on muslims to 'extreme vetting'. But, his supporters are too stupid to see it.

We know what we get with Hillary - in terms of international politics, she is going to be a hawk, much more to the right compared to Obama. Domestically, she'll be similar to Obama.

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## maximuswarrior

Russell said:


> He constantly retweets white genocide and white nationalist twitter accounts
> 
> He's funny because, you know he doesn't believe ANY of the things he says---he's gone from a ban on muslims to 'extreme vetting'. But, his supporters are too stupid to see it.
> 
> We know what we get with Hillary - in terms of international politics, she is going to be a hawk, much more to the right compared to Obama. Domestically, she'll be similar to Obama.



Heck, I'm no fan of Hillary either and you are spot on. We know what to expect from her. This Trump maniac is going to be crazy on steroids for sure. We just cannot comprehend how crazy. Trump and his supporters are the most disgusting garbage you will ever come across. They put Breivik the murderer to shame.


----------



## Russell

maximuswarrior said:


> Heck, I'm no fan of Hillary either and you are spot on. We know what to expect from her. This Trump maniac is going to be crazy on steroids for sure. We just cannot comprehend how crazy.


I think a significant amount of people are voting for Hillary not because they agree with most of what she is saying, but because she is the lesser of two evils. That's not a resounding endorsement, but that's where we are unfortunately.

This is Trump when you ask him about policy:

'We're going to have beautiful plans...we're going to have some of the most beautiful plans you've ever seen...believe me - USA USA USA'. Not to mention, the guy was a freaking democrat for most of this life.

Oh and you know how Trump paraded the women who were allegedly sexually abused/assaulted by Bill Clinton.

This is what he had to say about them in 1998



> In 1998, Mr Trump appeared on Fox News and said in response to allegations against Mr Clinton, according to _the Daily Beast__: “The whole thing is just so unattractive. Linda Tripp may be one of the most unattractive human beings I’ve ever seen- not women, human beings. She’s just an unattractive person. This [Lucianne] Goldberg person, her agent or whoever she is, is just a terrible woman.
> 
> “You look at Paula Jones, I mean the whole cast of characters. It’s like it’s from Hell. It’s a terrible group of people. The whole group, it’s truly unattractive cast of characters- Linda Tripp, Lucianne Goldberg- I mean, this woman- I watch her on television, just vomiting,” he reportedly added.
> 
> “She is so bad. The whole group- Paula Jones, Lewinsky- it’s just a really unattractive group. And I’m not just talking about physical, but I’m also talking about physical.”_
> 
> *Mr Trump then expressed sympathy with Mr Clinton, saying: “His victims are terrible. He is really a victim himself. But he put himself in that position.”*

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## maximuswarrior

Russell said:


> I think a significant amount of people are voting for Hillary not because they agree with most of what she is saying, but because she is the lesser of two evils. That's not a resounding endorsement, but that's where we are unfortunately.
> 
> This is Trump when you ask him about policy:
> 
> 'We're going to have beautiful plans...we're going to have some of the most beautiful plans you've ever seen...believe me - USA USA USA'. Not to mention, the guy was a freaking democrat for most of this life.
> 
> Oh and you know how Trump paraded the women who were allegedly sexually abused/assaulted by Bill Clinton.
> 
> This is what he had to say about them in 1998



Couldn't agree more about Hillary. It is just the way it is. Certainly much lesser evil than Trump.

LMAO the guy is an absolute joker, but a dangerous one. This guy is capable of a whole lot of evil. He will put Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld to shame. He says he isn't interested in wars abroad, but that is a big lie. His supporters are the same voters who supported Bush during various wars and occupations of foreign lands. Remember the Iraq war and how they cheered the shock and awe campaigns? These are the same hypocrites who voted for Bush to invade foreign lands. Today, this maniac and his supporters shed crocodile tears and try to fool the world how staunchely they opposed the Iraq war. The world isn't crazy. We know his supporters and we certainly know Trump. These are bloodthirsty maniacs. Another gem by Trump is to steal Iraqi oil LOL Like as if the Iraqis invited the Americans to invade their land and steal their oil.


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## F-22Raptor

New polls out showing Clinton up big in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. With the news that the Trump campaign is pulling out from Virginia, it's going to take a miracle for Trump to win. Clinton could get to 270 electoral votes without carrying Florida, Ohio, and North Carolina. Yet she is leading in all three of those states, albeit with smaller margins. 

The Trump campaign is in full meltdown. I doubt he even believes he can win at this point, which is why he's gone "scorched earth" today. It reeks of desperation.

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## Russell

@maximuswarrior just for a bit of balance - a lot of those neocons have said - they're completely fine with Hillary. Because her foreign policy is a lot more interventionist. They of course hate her domestic policies - education, abortion, healthcare and on potential *Supreme Court Nominees.*

That's the biggest win/loss of this election in truth...obviously there is one vacancy already, but there is a strong possibility, she'll also get to nominate a replacement for Ruth Bader Ginsburg and these 2 selections would make the Supreme Court lean left and have an impact that far outlasts anything she accomplishes during her tenure as president.

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## maximuswarrior

Russell said:


> @maximuswarrior just for a bit of balance - a lot of those neocons have said - they're completely fine with Hillary. Because her foreign policy is a lot more interventionist. They of course hate her domestic policies - education, abortion, healthcare and on potential *Supreme Court Nominees.*
> 
> That's the biggest win/loss of this election in truth...obviously there is one vacancy already, but there is a strong possibility, she'll also get to nominate a replacement for Ruth Bader Ginsburg and these 2 selections would make the Supreme Court lean left and have an impact that far outlasts anything she accomplishes during her tenure as president.



I concur. Hillary is renowned for her interventionist policies, but those days have gone now in my opinion. The world is a very changed place. Syria is a very good example in case. Other powers are projecting their power on the world stage. Hillary won't have a free pass anymore. She will tow the Obama approach.

I still believe that Trump would be a bigger threat as opposed to Hillary. He is very awkward and unpredictable. He says one thing, but does entirely different. He changes his mind every other minute. Trump is very unstable. He is also very stubborn and arrogant. He would go to extreme lengths.

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## RabzonKhan

The Daily Show - Fallout from Donald Trump's P***ygate Scandal

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## cloud4000

Russell said:


> @maximuswarrior just for a bit of balance - a lot of those neocons have said - they're completely fine with Hillary. Because her foreign policy is a lot more interventionist. They of course hate her domestic policies - education, abortion, healthcare and on potential *Supreme Court Nominees.*



Neo-cons had their roots, not in conservative circles, but in liberal ones, especially Democrats who believed that democracy could be established by force by simply overthrowing dictatorial regimes. Things changed after the Vietnam War, when many Democrats lost their appetite for such wars. Neo-cons found home in the Republican party instead, some of whom became big backers of the Iraq War in 2003.

Neo-cons don't really care about issues except foreign policy.

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## Nilgiri



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## Desert Fox

*Post P*ssyGate: Trump Gains Lead Over Clinton In Latest Rasmussen Poll*​






The full results from Sunday night’s debate are in, and Donald Trump has come from behind to take the lead over Hillary Clinton.

The latest Rasmussen Reports White House Watch national telephone and online survey shows Trump with 43% support among Likely U.S. Voters to Clinton’s 41%. Yesterday, Clinton still held a four-point 43% to 39% lead over Trump *that was down from five points on Tuesday and her biggest lead ever of seven points on M, but onday.*

Rasmussen Reports updates its White House Watch survey *daily* Monday through Friday at 8:30 am Eastern based on a three-day rolling average of 1,500 Likely U.S. Voters. Monday’s survey was the first following the release of an 11-year-old video showing Trump discussing women in graphic sexual detail but did not include any polling results taken after the debate. All three nights of the latest survey follow Sunday’s debate.

Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson has dropped slightly to six percent (6%) support, while Green Party candidate Jill Stein holds steady at two percent (2%). Four percent (4%) still like some other candidate in the race, and another four percent (4%) remain undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

Eighty-four percent (84%) now say they are certain how they will vote in this year’s presidential election, and among these voters, *Trump posts a 49% to 46% lead over Clinton*. Among voters who say they still could change their minds between now and Election Day, it’s Clinton 40%, Trump 37%, Johnson 19% and Stein four percent (4%).

(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.

The survey of 1,500 Likely Voters was conducted on October 10-12, 2016 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 2.5 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.

Most Republican voters still think top GOP leaders are hurting the party with their continuing criticism of Trump and are only slightly more convinced that those leaders want Trump to be president.

Trump has 75% support among Republicans, nearly identical to Clinton’s 76% backing among Democrats. He has 15% of the Democratic vote; she picks up 13% GOP support. *Trump holds a double-digit advantage among voters not affiliated with either major political party.*

Johnson gets 13% of the unaffiliated vote, but like Stein is in low single digits among Democrats and Republicans.

Clinton continues to lead among women, while *Trump has regained his advantage among men.* Those under 40 still prefer the Democrat but also remain the most undecided. Older voters favor Trump. The older the voter, the more likely he or she is to be certain of their vote.

*Trump remains ahead among whites and has a slight lead among other minority voters. He appears to be making a dent in the black vote*, but blacks still overwhelmingly favor Clinton.

Ninety (90%) of voters who Strongly Approve of the job President Obama is doing choose Clinton. Among voters who Strongly Disapprove of the president’s job performance, 89% prefer Trump.

Hillary Clinton jumped on the release last week of an 11-year-old video in which Trump makes graphic sexual comments to say it shows her Republican rival's demeaning attitude toward women. But Trump countered that Clinton was an enabler who allowed her husband, former President Bill Clinton, to sexually assault women for years. We’ll tell you what voters think at 10:30 a.m. Eastern today.

Nearly two-out-of-three voters believe the economy is unfair to the middle class.

Voters are even more likely than they’ve been in the past to say they’ll wait until Election Day to cast their vote.

Only 24%, however, say they’ve ever changed the way they were going to vote after watching the debates between presidential candidates.

Additional information from this survey and a full demographic breakdown are available to Platinum Members only.

@Nilgiri @T-72 @C130 @boomslang

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## Russell




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## Desert Fox

*P*ssyGate Tape Was In Fact A Trump Bait For The MSM*​

If true then i have to say Trump is one hell of a genius master troll. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case because it's not the first time Trump trolled the Mainstream Media (remember the birther press conference that turned out to be nothing but lauding MoH recipients? That really pissed of the MSM )

Think about it, after the release of this tape all of the big Republican party bosses disowned Trump which now gives him free reign over his campaign and now he no longer has to ponder to their whims, not to mention all of the traitors came out the wood work. And not only that but the P*ssyGate tape became a major focus in the second debate which gave Trump the opportunity to bring up Bill Clinton's history of sexual misconduct and rape of women in the past and Hillary's defense of the rapist of a 12 year old Kathy Shelton and how she laughed about it after (he really drove that point home). The tape never hurt his support base, but rather strengthened it. Only Trump gained from the release of the tape.

Would like your thoughts on this @Nilgiri @T-72 @C130 @boomslang




@RabzonKhan

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> *Post P*ssyGate: Trump Gains Lead Over Clinton In Latest Rasmussen Poll*​
> View attachment 343318​
> 
> 
> The full results from Sunday night’s debate are in, and Donald Trump has come from behind to take the lead over Hillary Clinton.
> 
> The latest Rasmussen Reports White House Watch national telephone and online survey shows Trump with 43% support among Likely U.S. Voters to Clinton’s 41%. Yesterday, Clinton still held a four-point 43% to 39% lead over Trump *that was down from five points on Tuesday and her biggest lead ever of seven points on M, but onday.*
> 
> Rasmussen Reports updates its White House Watch survey *daily* Monday through Friday at 8:30 am Eastern based on a three-day rolling average of 1,500 Likely U.S. Voters. Monday’s survey was the first following the release of an 11-year-old video showing Trump discussing women in graphic sexual detail but did not include any polling results taken after the debate. All three nights of the latest survey follow Sunday’s debate.
> 
> Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson has dropped slightly to six percent (6%) support, while Green Party candidate Jill Stein holds steady at two percent (2%). Four percent (4%) still like some other candidate in the race, and another four percent (4%) remain undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
> 
> Eighty-four percent (84%) now say they are certain how they will vote in this year’s presidential election, and among these voters, *Trump posts a 49% to 46% lead over Clinton*. Among voters who say they still could change their minds between now and Election Day, it’s Clinton 40%, Trump 37%, Johnson 19% and Stein four percent (4%).
> 
> (Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.
> 
> The survey of 1,500 Likely Voters was conducted on October 10-12, 2016 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 2.5 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.
> 
> Most Republican voters still think top GOP leaders are hurting the party with their continuing criticism of Trump and are only slightly more convinced that those leaders want Trump to be president.
> 
> Trump has 75% support among Republicans, nearly identical to Clinton’s 76% backing among Democrats. He has 15% of the Democratic vote; she picks up 13% GOP support. *Trump holds a double-digit advantage among voters not affiliated with either major political party.*
> 
> Johnson gets 13% of the unaffiliated vote, but like Stein is in low single digits among Democrats and Republicans.
> 
> Clinton continues to lead among women, while *Trump has regained his advantage among men.* Those under 40 still prefer the Democrat but also remain the most undecided. Older voters favor Trump. The older the voter, the more likely he or she is to be certain of their vote.
> 
> *Trump remains ahead among whites and has a slight lead among other minority voters. He appears to be making a dent in the black vote*, but blacks still overwhelmingly favor Clinton.
> 
> Ninety (90%) of voters who Strongly Approve of the job President Obama is doing choose Clinton. Among voters who Strongly Disapprove of the president’s job performance, 89% prefer Trump.
> 
> Hillary Clinton jumped on the release last week of an 11-year-old video in which Trump makes graphic sexual comments to say it shows her Republican rival's demeaning attitude toward women. But Trump countered that Clinton was an enabler who allowed her husband, former President Bill Clinton, to sexually assault women for years. We’ll tell you what voters think at 10:30 a.m. Eastern today.
> 
> Nearly two-out-of-three voters believe the economy is unfair to the middle class.
> 
> Voters are even more likely than they’ve been in the past to say they’ll wait until Election Day to cast their vote.
> 
> Only 24%, however, say they’ve ever changed the way they were going to vote after watching the debates between presidential candidates.
> 
> Additional information from this survey and a full demographic breakdown are available to Platinum Members only.
> 
> @Nilgiri @T-72 @C130 @boomslang



Thats interesting that Rasmussen and LA times poll are staying quite solid in saying Trump numbers are better...and they have reputable transparent methodologies (no weird pre and post fudging of correction factors and such).

There is hope.

The actual turnout (level and composition) is also going to be quite crucial...and is very unpredictable actually. Some are saying the MSM tactic is actually backfiring and that enough reluctant democrats will stay home feeling that hillary has already won (and therefore dont need to denigrate themselves in voting for her).....whereas there could be republican, alt-right and independent surges for Trump in the crucial swing states and vulnerable blue states even.

Aint over till the fat lady sings folks!

Last debate should be interesting. Trump knows what works well now, I think he needs to specifically target hillary behaviour with women repeatedly to keep as many women away from the ballot box as possible (unless to vote for him).

Also needs to really focus on the podesta emails, specifically how Hillary outright said she hates average american people.

Trump needs to go all in here. If somehow he loses, he will take Hillary down with him a good amount....and that is fine by me....because that helps impeachment of hillary down the road after the republican party sorts itself out after the mess/revolution it will be in for a bit.



Desert Fox said:


> *P*ssyGate Tape Was In Fact A Trump Bait For The MSM*​
> 
> If true then i have to say Trump is one hell of a genius master troll. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case because it's not the first time Trump trolled the Mainstream Media (remember the birther press conference that turned out to be nothing but lauding MoH recipients? That really pissed of the MSM )
> 
> Think about it, after the release of this tape all of the big Republican party bosses disowned Trump which now gives him free reign over his campaign and now he no longer has to ponder to their whims, not to mention all of the traitors came out the wood work. And not only that but the P*ssyGate tape became a major focus in the second debate which gave Trump the opportunity to bring up Bill Clinton's history of sexual misconduct and rape of women in the past and Hillary's defense of the rapist of a 12 year old Kathy Shelton and how she laughed about it after (he really drove that point home). The tape never hurt his support base, but rather strengthened it. Only Trump gained from the release of the tape.
> 
> Would like your thoughts on this @Nilgiri @T-72 @C130 @boomslang
> 
> View attachment 343320​
> @RabzonKhan



LOL! Thats an interesting take on the whole thing haha. Could very well be what happened.

We will have to see on nov 8th. (also the last debate stuff I guess)

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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> Thats interesting that Rasmussen and LA times poll are staying quite solid in saying Trump numbers are better...and they have reputable transparent methodologies (no weird pre and post fudging of correction factors and such).
> 
> There is hope.
> 
> The actual turnout (level and composition) is also going to be quite crucial...and is very unpredictable actually. Some are saying the MSM tactic is actually backfiring and that enough reluctant democrats will stay home feeling that hillary has already won (and therefore dont need to denigrate themselves in voting for her).....whereas there could be republican, alt-right and independent surges for Trump in the crucial swing states and vulnerable blue states even.
> 
> Aint over till the fat lady sings folks!
> 
> Last debate should be interesting. Trump knows what works well now, I think he needs to specifically target hillary behaviour with women repeatedly to keep as many women away from the ballot box as possible (unless to vote for him).
> 
> Also needs to really focus on the podesta emails, specifically how Hillary outright said she hates average american people.
> 
> Trump needs to go all in here. If somehow he loses, he will take Hillary down with him a good amount....and that is fine by me....because that helps impeachment of hillary down the road after the republican party sorts itself out after the mess/revolution it will be in for a bit.


Rasmussen and LA Times are perhaps the only two neutral sources out there. 

And yeah definitely i agree and its too soon to conclude anything especially when there is so much controversy and scandals coming out from Hillary's side lol, this who election has become unpredictable but lets see how it will go.





Nilgiri said:


> LOL! Thats an interesting take on the whole thing haha. Could very well be what happened.
> 
> We will have to see on nov 8th. (also the last debate stuff I guess)


Yeah lol, perhaps this theory is too optimistic but i won't dismiss it entirely seeing the results.

And regarding the Podesta emails, there is a lot of dirt on Hillary contained in those babies. More ammo for the Trump Machine.

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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> Post P*ssyGate: Trump Gains Lead Over Clinton In Latest Rasmussen Poll


nice numbers for pro Trump folk but Rasmussen isn't the most reliable poll, Romney was polling higher with them all through the last cycle. I wouldn't put too much stock in it, or in any other poll for that matter. Most of their methodology is based around landline based phone polling, they're just not going to be too accurate in this day and age. Remember BREXIT ? the leave guys were down in the polls, some by big numbers but they came up top, and that was despite the Jo Cox murder and the mainstream media's hysterical spin over that. With Trump I think whites are going to turn out in overwhelming numbers to vote for him, as will older people, as will a lot of people who will secretly vote for him despite not admitting to being Trump supporters and possibly lying to the pollsters. Like he said "no one around in the booth, BING ! vote Trump" 



Desert Fox said:


> remember the birther press conference that turned out to be nothing but lauding MoH recipients?


LMAO, that was some of the most epic media trolling ever, genius move. He is a media master, very possible that he's using a Trumpian judo technique to use their weight to knock them down when they're throwing everything at him, the kitchen sink, spoons, leftover breadcrumbs, junior's crayon set.. 

and if not, well, good luck to crooked hillary trying to win a gutter brawl with Trump. It's the only thing she's left with, she can't run on policy, Trump is not your usual right winger, he's to her left on intervention, not looking to kill healthcare etc.

So I'll stick to what I've been saying since the primaries, he's going to win the white house, big league. 














====================

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## LA se Karachi

T-72 said:


> nice numbers for pro Trump folk* but Rasmussen isn't the most reliable poll*, Romney was polling higher with them all through the last cycle.




Indeed. Rasmussen has a well-known Republican tilt. They performed very poorly in 2012. The pollsters that I would pay attention to most are NBC News/Wall Street Journal, Survey USA, and PPP.

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## maximuswarrior

RabzonKhan said:


> The Daily Show - Fallout from Donald Trump's P***ygate Scandal



Nailed it. Trump the bigot is drowning in his own hate. The man is the embodiment of craziness.

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## T-72



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## C130

maximuswarrior said:


> Nailed it. Trump the bigot is drowning in his own hate. The man is the embodiment of craziness.




I like how you are calling Trump a bigot and crazy


but no word on Hillary and the amount of scandals and corruption she is involved in?? the coups and civil wars she got the U.S into!

she's just another form of Obama if not worse than Obama.


I see you got Snowden as your avatar, so you ought to know Hillary is just another Obama and will continue the surveillance programs and CIA intervention.

enjoy another 8 years of the same ole' thing if not worse under Hillary

but hey at least she isn't a bigot,racist,xenophobe,crazy, idiot, like Trump

after all words trump actions

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## maximuswarrior

C130 said:


> I like how you are calling Trump a bigot and crazy
> 
> 
> but no word on Hillary and the amount of scandals and corruption?? the coups and civil wars she got the U.S involved!
> 
> she's just another form of Obama if not worse than Obama.
> 
> 
> you got Snowden as your avatar and the programs surveillance programs and CIA intervention Obama started you can bet Hillary will double down on them.
> 
> enjoy another 8 years of the same ole' thing if not worse under Hillary
> 
> but hey at least she isn't a bigot,racist,xenophobe,crazy, idiot, like Trump



I have already said many things about Hillary. You can read them in my previous posts in this thread. Hillary is very cunning and seasoned. She is corrupt and a lair. In other words, Hillary is not good.

If Trump didn't resort to racist, xenophobic and other mad behavior he could have been a viable alternative even for moderate Americans. Unfortunately, the guy is absolutely mad and his words and actions are there for anyone to witness. Trump has just destroyed his reputation. There is so much he has said and done which is simply put not done.

Choosing between these two I would still pick Hillary the somewhat lesser evil. That's my opinion. Having said that, I don't expect much good from Hillary either.


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## Russell

For those who think the LA Times polls are relevant  There is a reason it is such an outlier....their methodology is flawed!



> There is a 19-year-old black man in Illinois who has no idea of the role he is playing in this election.
> 
> He is sure he is going to vote for Donald J. Trump.
> 
> And he has been held up as proof by conservatives — including outlets like Breitbart News and The New York Post — that Mr. Trump is excelling among black voters. He has even played a modest role in shifting entire polling aggregates, like the Real Clear Politics average, toward Mr. Trump.
> 
> *How? He’s a panelist on the U.S.C. Dornsife/Los Angeles Times Daybreak poll, which has emerged as the biggest polling outlier of the presidential campaign. Despite falling behind by double digits in some national surveys, Mr. Trump has generally led in the U.S.C./LAT poll. He held the lead for a full month until Wednesday, when Hillary Clinton took a nominal lead.*
> 
> Our Trump-supporting friend in Illinois is a surprisingly big part of the reason. *In some polls, he’s weighted as much as 30 times more than the average respondent, and as much as 300 times more than the least-weighted respondent.*



Full Article: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/u...t=1&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=2&mtrref=undefined


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## CorporateAffairs

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL weren't you not so long ago predicting a clean slate for Trump? What happened? A conspiracy by the left and the media perhaps?


Yes I vouched for him. But i didn't knew that USA polls are so rigged and all these tapes and what not. BS stuff in US polls.


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## Russell

@C130 be honest, regardless of who the Republicans nominated - you'd support them.


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## C130

Russell said:


> @C130 be honest, regardless of who the Republicans nominated - you'd support them.



no, I wouldn't support John McCain nor Ted Cruz.

one is neocon and other would put Israel interests before the U.S.

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## cloud4000

LA se Karachi said:


> Indeed. Rasmussen has a well-known Republican tilt. They performed very poorly in 2012. The pollsters that I would pay attention to most are NBC News/Wall Street Journal, Survey USA, and PPP.



How RealClearPolitics? I know they have a right-wing tilt too, but I've using them for years.

And how Nate Silver Five Thirty Eight. I find their forecast page quite interesting:

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/


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## Nilgiri

A summary of Killary Klinton, please google everything to get more details, dont go on my word):

Cross posting from another forum, credit to a friend of mine:

1. She is an acolyte of Saul Alinsky. She wrote her thesis on the Alinsky method.

2. As a young lawyer she got thrown off the case (Watergate) because she was a congenital liar.

3. Handler of Bill Clinton's Bimbo eruptions unit. She made sure to cover for his philandering at a minimum and his rapes of multiple women at worst.

4. Whitewater/Web Hubble indictment not easy to turn $1000 into $100k in a few short days.

5. Cattle Futures - More of #4 in a different arena.

6. People who have died around Bill and Hillary:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/BODIES.php#axzz4N4q8GZiV
(this is a good list of people involved with the Clintons who have passed under "odd" circumstances) More than a coincidence given the number of people.

7. Benghazi debacle. - This goes directly to Hillary as Sec. of State.

8. Private Email server.

9. The Clinton Foundation. This "Charity" is a means of funding the Clintons and is illegal in many ways.

10. HRC's speeches. This is admittedly more typical politics rather than illegal. She takes the money from the people who will pay. Doesn't matter who. She claims to be a champion of the little people and she sucks the Wall Street Fat Cat Member as well as any $3 hooker. (Apologies to $3 hookers)

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## Dalit

Nilgiri said:


> A summary of Killary Klinton, please google everything to get more details, dont go on my word):
> 
> Cross posting from another forum, credit to a friend of mine:
> 
> 1. She is an acolyte of Saul Alinsky. She wrote her thesis on the Alinsky method.
> 
> 2. As a young lawyer she got thrown off the case (Watergate) because she was a congenital liar.
> 
> 3. Handler of Bill Clinton's Bimbo eruptions unit. She made sure to cover for his philandering at a minimum and his rapes of multiple women at worst.
> 
> 4. Whitewater/Web Hubble indictment not easy to turn $1000 into $100k in a few short days.
> 
> 5. Cattle Futures - More of #4 in a different arena.
> 
> 6. People who have died around Bill and Hillary:
> http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/BODIES.php#axzz4N4q8GZiV
> (this is a good list of people involved with the Clintons who have passed under "odd" circumstances) More than a coincidence given the number of people.
> 
> 7. Benghazi debacle. - This goes directly to Hillary as Sec. of State.
> 
> 8. Private Email server.
> 
> 9. The Clinton Foundation. This "Charity" is a means of funding the Clintons and is illegal in many ways.
> 
> 10. HRC's speeches. This is admittedly more typical politics rather than illegal. She takes the money from the people who will pay. Doesn't matter who. She claims to be a champion of the little people and she sucks the Wall Street Fat Cat Member as well as any $3 hooker. (Apologies to $3 hookers)



Who are you pleading to? Trump has already lost the elections.


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## RabzonKhan

Richard Cross, a lifelong Republican, who wrote the famous GOP convention speech for Patricia Smith (whose son died in Benghazi) is going to vote for Hillary. 

*
GOP speechwriter may vote for Hillary Clinton*
*




*
Patricia Smith, the mother of a Benghazi survivor, criticized Hillary Clinton and blamed the Democratic presidential candidate for the death of her son during the Republican National Convention in Cleveland July 18, 2016. (Washington Post)

I am a lifelong political animal and a longtime Maryland Republican. I worked on the staffs of Maryland Congresswoman Helen Bentley and Congressman/Gov. Bob Ehrlich. I also served on the GOP staff of the House Financial Services Committee.

I have lived my life, proudly, as a political moderate striving to make a positive contribution in and around the political arena — not an easy feat in deep blue Maryland, where an insular Democratic establishment has dominated state politics until very recently. But I have always been GOP to the core.

Growing up, Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan were my icons. My sense of party fealty is such that I worked on the paid GOP convention staff in Philadelphia in 2000, and again, just recently, as a professional volunteer on the speechwriting staff in Cleveland.

But weeks after the end of the 2016 GOP convention, I am confronted by an inconvenient fact: Despite what I wrote in that nationally televised speech about Hillary Clinton, I may yet have to vote for her because of the epic deficiencies of my own party's nominee.

*President Eisenhower would have never proposed banning Muslims from America. Nor would President Nixon. Nor would President Reagan. Donald Trump has betrayed and perverted their legacies. Consequently, I no longer recognize my party.*

*I have never voted for a Democrat for federal office, but when I hear the president criticize the GOP nominee, I can't honestly disagree with him.*

I have no political home — a deeply uncomfortable place for me to be. My GOP pals regard me as a renegade, and my Democratic friends don't know quite what to make of me.

What is this election really about? It should be about the future — every election should be. But this election is about the misery of the moment.

While I'm proud of my service to the Republican party, I am not proud of the present state of American politics. I look around me; everything just feels awful and sad. The divisions in our national discourse are great, and there is no political hero waiting to rescue us from ourselves. Instead, we're confronted by the awful spectacle of a "Mothra versus Godzilla" election. And, just like in the movies, no matters who wins, Tokyo suffers.

*Regardless, the reality is, I cannot vote for Donald Trump. I could never vote for Donald Trump.*

So instead I am confronted by two painful choices: Vote for the most divisive political figure in the past 25 years or throw away my vote on a kooky Libertarian ticket.

*I believe this is a citizenship election similar to others we have had in our history. This is a time to stand up and be counted — just like supporters of the civil rights movement once chose to do.

The central question in 2016: Are Muslim Americans an equal and welcome member of the American constituency?*

*For me, the answer is a clear "yes."* Now, the question becomes: Can we come together and find a positive solution to the issue of illegal immigration, just like President Reagan and congressional Democrats were able to achieve? The answer to that is, "we must."

*To choose otherwise embraces fear, as Donald Trump has chosen to do. Fear sometimes wins you elections, but it doesn't create jobs, build schools, reduce crime or improve the quality of life for all citizens. Great political leaders help us transcend our fears.*

Still, the prospect of voting for Hillary Clinton is uncomfortable to me, as if Dr. Van Helsing were compelled to vote for Dracula.

*But the only prospect more terrifying than voting for Hillary Clinton is not voting for her.

The reality of American politics today is, she is the only choice.*

In fact, I personally drafted the speech of the "Benghazi mom," Patricia Smith. In that speech, I concluded with the following line: "If Hillary Clinton can't give us the truth, why should we give her the presidency?" As a political speechwriter, that was something of a home run moment for me. The New Yorker called the speech "the weaponization of grief."

_Richard J. Cross III is a former Capitol Hill and Annapolis press secretary and speechwriter who lives in Baltimore. _


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## Russell

He doesn't need to vote for Hillary...just sit out this cycle bud - that way the down ticket nominees will miss out on your vote too


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## maximuswarrior

LMAO

*Donald Trump Assails His Accusers as Liars, and Unattractive*

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/10/1...aign.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.google.nl/


Donald Duck in deep trouble. More women accusing him of sexual harassment.

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## boomslang

Desert Fox said:


> *Post P*ssyGate: Trump Gains Lead Over Clinton In Latest Rasmussen Poll*​
> 
> @Nilgiri @T-72 @C130 @boomslang




I go by the 'A,B,C' theory. Anyone But Clinton. This shit happened 35 years ago. When you're a 35 year old billionaire you're supposed to hit on chicks and have threesomes. I'd be worried if he didn't. Besides, Killary has gotten TWO serial rapists out off the hook . One was her husband, Slick Willy.

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## maximuswarrior

boomslang said:


> I go by the 'A,B,C' theory. Anyone But Clinton. This shit happened 35 years ago. When you're a 35 year old billionaire you're supposed to hit on chicks and have threesomes. I'd be worried if he didn't. Besides, Killary has gotten TWO serial rapists out off the hook . One was her husband, Slick Willy.



LOL grab them by the p.... What a moron. LMAO at ABC theory. He is going down and Trump fanboys have already dropped their heads in despair. It's over man.

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## boomslang

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL grab them by the p.... What a moron. LMAO at ABC theory. He is going down and Trump fanboys have already dropped their heads in despair. It's over man.



The Clintons are the most corrupt family know to U.S. politics. They make the Bushs' look like Boy Scouts. You can dig up Sadaam Husseins stinking, rotten corpse and I'd vote for him before Killary. They've had nothing but scandal since the showed up on the scene 30 years ago. Bill raping chicks and what not. It was hard for Trump and Sanders from the start. We've seen the collusion between the DNC, media and Killary. The DNC is supposed to be neutral but they all ganged up on Bernie. Killary emails came out where she said basically that she lies to the public and that she wants open borders. These are things you'd think would make the papers but low and behold, nothing. The fact that Trump has made it this far is amazing.

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## Nilgiri

boomslang said:


> The Clintons are the most corrupt family know to U.S. politics. They make the Bushs' look like Boy Scouts. You can dig up Sadaam Husseins stinking, rotten corpse and I'd vote for him before Killary. They've had nothing but scandal since the showed up on the scene 30 years ago. Bill raping chicks and what not. It was hard for Trump and Sanders from the start. We've seen the collusion between the DNC, media and Killary. The DNC is supposed to be neutral but they all ganged up on Bernie. Killary emails came out where she said basically that she lies to the public and that she wants open borders. These are things you'd think would make the papers but low and behold, nothing. The fact that Trump has made it this far is amazing.



The turnout is going to be crazy and pretty unpredictable. The MSM is trying their level best to influence it in some way so that HRC wins in the crucial swing states.

But stay tuned, the final debate and nov 8th should be quite interesting.


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## boomslang

Nilgiri said:


> The turnout is going to be crazy and pretty unpredictable. The MSM is trying their level best to influence it in some way so that HRC wins in the crucial swing states.
> 
> But stay tuned, the final debate and nov 8th should be quite interesting.




The next debate is Oct. 19th. Should be fun. Trump beat Killary like a red headed step child in the last. When he dropped the 'You'd be in jail' line, Killarys eyes started rolling up in her head and if you listen real hard I think you can hear her fart.

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## Nilgiri

boomslang said:


> The next debate is Oct. 19th. Should be fun. Trump beat Killary like a red headed step child in the last. When he dropped the 'You'd be in jail' line, Killarys eyes started rolling up in her head and if you listen real hard I think you can hear her fart.



Yep that was such a good clincher haha.

Loved Bill's shifty "yep im going to hell" glances when Trump brought up his rapes.

Needs more of the same and more refinement from Trump.

Trump should bring up Hillary saying "she hates the average american people" in the Podesta emails in the final debate for example.

In fact those emails contain many gems. Trump team need to use the MSM effectively to get the anti-MSM/establishment message out. It was a good start in the last debate, next debate has to end it effectively. I could feel those hosts struggling and their clear bias stood out on numerous occasions. Needs to keep happening. This will set up the revolution that needs to happen in the republican party later if Trump loses to become a full fledged anti-mainstream party hopefully....or at least something will splinter.

This will probably likewise happen to the democrats if trump wins. Either way its long overdue and its better it happens now than later.

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## Nilgiri



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## KAL-EL

Dalit said:


> Who are you pleading to? Trump has already lost the elections.



Yep, it's over. And while I'm not a big fan of trump, I'm also not happy that secretary Clinton will be the next president of the United States.

I like many Americans want to walk into that voting booth on November 8th and hope there is a "none-of-the-above" button to push.

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## Azeri440

KAL-EL said:


> Yep, it's over. And while I'm not a big fan of trump, I'm also not happy that secretary Clinton will be the next president of the United States.
> 
> I like many Americans want to walk into that voting booth on November 8th and hope there is a "none-of-the-above" button to push.



literally no good choices this time around, even third party candidates are pretty awful

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## gangsta_rap

boomslang said:


> When you're a 35 year old billionaire you're supposed to hit on chicks and have threesomes.



What the hell am I reading here?


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## T-72




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## maximuswarrior

boomslang said:


> The Clintons are the most corrupt family know to U.S. politics. They make the Bushs' look like Boy Scouts. You can dig up Sadaam Husseins stinking, rotten corpse and I'd vote for him before Killary. They've had nothing but scandal since the showed up on the scene 30 years ago. Bill raping chicks and what not. It was hard for Trump and Sanders from the start. We've seen the collusion between the DNC, media and Killary. The DNC is supposed to be neutral but they all ganged up on Bernie. Killary emails came out where she said basically that she lies to the public and that she wants open borders. These are things you'd think would make the papers but low and behold, nothing. The fact that Trump has made it this far is amazing.



LOL yet Hillary is going to win.

I find it so amusing how any sane being could support Trump after so many revelations. I must say that grab them by the p.... just tops the list. LMAO


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## LA se Karachi

cloud4000 said:


> How RealClearPolitics? I know they have a right-wing tilt too, but I've using them for years.
> 
> And how Nate Silver Five Thirty Eight. I find their forecast page quite interesting:
> 
> http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/




RCP is a polling aggregate site. It's pretty good in that regard. It gives a good picture of the polling data that's out there for the election. I was just listing the individual pollsters I trust the most.

538 was much more helpful in 2008. They're not so special anymore. I personally don't like Nate Silver. But he is good at what he does.

With that said, I think their projection is a bit too optimistic for Hillary. Ohio, Iowa, Florida, and North Carolina are still very much up for grabs. And I'd be pretty surprised if Hillary actually won Arizona. Although the last time it voted Democratic for President was 20 years ago for Bill Clinton.


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## Gandhi G in da house

boomslang said:


> I go by the 'A,B,C' theory. Anyone But Clinton. This shit happened 35 years ago. When you're a *35 year old billionaire you're supposed to hit on chicks and have threesomes*. I'd be worried if he didn't. Besides, Killary has gotten TWO serial rapists out off the hook . One was her husband, Slick Willy.



I would have at least one every week.


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## A.P. Richelieu

boomslang said:


> The Clintons are the most corrupt family know to U.S. politics. They make the Bushs' look like Boy Scouts. You can dig up Sadaam Husseins stinking, rotten corpse and I'd vote for him before Killary. They've had nothing but scandal since the showed up on the scene 30 years ago. Bill raping chicks and what not. It was hard for Trump and Sanders from the start. We've seen the collusion between the DNC, media and Killary. The DNC is supposed to be neutral but they all ganged up on Bernie. Killary emails came out where she said basically that she lies to the public and that she wants open borders. These are things you'd think would make the papers but low and behold, nothing. The fact that Trump has made it this far is amazing.


The republican party spent $80M of taxpayers money on investigating Bill Clinton and all they came up with
was that he got a blowjob by an Intern, which basically is none of their business.
Whenever HRC is investigated, by republican led committies, basically the same result.
The "scandals" are mostly the just an 30-year old smear campaign.

If that money had been spent on protecting US troops in Iraq, how many soldiers lives would have been spared?
How many now maimed veterans would be at full health?

The fact that DT made it so far is an embarrassment to the US.
Watched a program about Abraham Lincolns president run.
Doubt he would vote Republican today.
Which former Republican presidents would vote Democrats in this election?

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## ptldM3

Many witnesses are coming forward and rebuking many of the claims of sexual harassment. One man says he was on a flight with Trump and one of his accusers and that the accuser was trying to flirt with Trump but was ignored. Another accuser that has accused Trump of groping years ago wrote an email in April to one of Trumps associates praising Trump and and inviting him to her restaurant.





Funny how most media are ignoring these revolutions and pretty much everything to do with the latest Clinton wekileaks

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## F-22Raptor

*Donald Trump’s epic meltdown, explained*

Speaking to supporters in West Palm Beach, Florida, early Thursday afternoon, Donald Trump outlined a truly wild conspiracy theory in which a shadowy international cabal of bankers and media tycoons, working in cahoots with the FBI, is working to deliver the election to Hillary Clinton. I promise you, this really happened.

Trump started out sounding a vaguely leftist note, denouncing a “global power structure that is responsible for the economic decisions that have robbed our working class, stripped our country of its wealth, and put that money into the pockets of a handful of large corporations and political entities.” He said that this power structure has “stripped away these towns bare and raided the wealth for themselves and taken our jobs away, out of our country, never to return unless I'm elected president” and that “the Clinton machine is at the center of this power structure.”

“The Clintons are criminals,” he explained. Indeed, he argues it is “well-documented” that they are criminals but that “the establishment that protects them has engaged in a massive cover-up of widespread criminal activity at the State Department and the Clinton Foundation in order to keep the Clintons in power.”

Trump went beyond the vague insinuations that Republicans normally use on this point and squarely stated that the Clintons “have essentially corrupted the director of the FBI” — a lifelong Republican who served as a high-level political appointee in the Bush administration — as part of their conspiracy. He said the sexual assault allegations made against him are orchestrated by the Clintons, they are false, “and the Clintons know it — they know it very well.”


On Friday, he said one of his accusers is too ugly to assault, a crowd of Trump supporters deployed the “lock her up” chant to argue that women who’ve accused Trump of assault should be jailed, and he alleged that Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim was now in on the conspiracy.

Trump, in short, is melting down. He’s also losing the election.

But while the fact that he’s melting down is certainly one of the reasons he’s losing, the more fundamental truth is that he’s melting down because he’s losing. He’s a bad candidate who is losing a very winnable election and possibly dragging many other Republican elected officials down with him. The meltdown is a coping mechanism to avoid admitting it.

There was a time in the not-so-distant days of mid-September when the presidential election was very close. The media was full of breathless stories about the latest revelations from FOIAed Clinton emails, and Hillary made herself look triply bad by getting sick, covering-up the fact that she’s gotten sick, and then getting sicker and getting caught.

Trump, meanwhile, had pulled himself together for a little while and was running something resembling a normal presidential campaign.

He stuck to replacement level GOP attacks on Hillary Clinton, didn’t feud with anyone noteworthy, and successfully got congressional Republicans and the institutional GOP firmly on his side. He wasn’t their first choice and they weren’t entirely comfortable with him, but everyone was willing to give it a go in the interest of beating Clinton.

This Peak Trump era sparked a thousand takes about why Hillary was flagging against such a flawed candidate and a thousand counter-takes about false equivalence in the media hobbling her.

The truth, however, is that even at his best, Trump was underperforming wherefundamentals-based models of the election thought a generic Republican should be reaching. He was a weak candidate running in a good year for the GOP, and he was close — but he was behind. And then his weakness really began to show.

Donald Trump does not have Hillary Clinton’s knowledge of American politics and public policy. No amount of debate preparation would change that. But in advance of the first presidential debate, Trump didn’t even bother to try. The results were a disaster.

He started with a confident-sounding but totally nonsensical disquisition on trade policy, before shifting gears into a mode that was alternately peevish and listless. Clinton needled Trump gently on a range of topics while mostly delivering crisp, professional answers on policy. Trump got agitated, and seemed unable to either address specifics clearly (never his strong suit) nor to return to any big themes.

Then at the end, Clinton took a sharp turn and veered into the discussion of a former Miss Universe and current telenovela star not well-known to Anglophone audiences named Alicia Machado, and illuminated Trump’s decades-old humiliation of her.

Live viewership for the debate did not set records as a share of the overall US population, but it was extremely high by the standards of the multichannel cable era. (Recall that back in 1976, when Ford debated Carter, there was literally nothing else to watch for most people.) This is a credit to Trump’s star power, but also a problem for him since his performance was terrible. Snap polls showed Trump had lost, and post-election spin from pundits reinforced the message.

But while the debate was a big deal, it merely revealed what had clearly been the case about Trump all along — he was a weak candidate, poorly informed and poorly disciplined with little relevant experience and no deep bench of credible surrogates who could help him out in a jam.

Trump’s response was to launch into a bitter, counterproductive feud with Machado, which Machado herself encouraged with a couple of high-profile media appearances. This drew more attention to the underlying Machado story, which reflected poorly on Trump, but also served as a living, breathing demonstration of one of Clinton’s longstanding arguments about Trump: “A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man you can trust with nuclear weapons.”

Then came the partial leak of Trump’s 1995 tax returns, revealing he’d incurred a billion-dollar loss that could have been used to avoid 18 years’ worth of federal taxes. It was a bad storyline for Trump, and it drew further attention to the shocking details of his Atlantic City comeback, in which he made tens of millions of dollars by bilking middle-class suckers out of their savings.

This all got blown off the front pages in October when Trump was caught on tape bragging about how he likes to kiss women without their consent and “grab ’em by the pussy.”

America has seen losing presidential campaigns before. But this one is different.

John McCain was dealt a losing hand by the deep unpopularity of the George W. Bush administration and the very poorly timed collapse of the global economy. He lost, he lost badly, and it was obvious in the weeks before Election Day that he was going to lose. But he was still a broadly respected figure in American politics who ended the campaign with a 57 percent approval rating. Everyone understood that his impending defeat wasn’t really his fault, and he had a reputation to maintain.

Bob Dole in 1996 was in some ways an even more sorry case, since his landslide defeat was visible from a long way out. But even more so than McCain, Dole was a broadly respected party leader in Congress. A man celebrated for his wartime heroism and for legitimately significant legislative achievements like the Americans With Disabilities Act. Dole surely wasn’t happy when GOP leaders made the decision to shift money away from his doomed campaign and toward helping down-ballot Republicans, but he was also a lifelong Republican who truly cared about the party and about his reputation as a party member.

Trump is not like that.

His reputation with the mass public has already been trashed by the campaign. He’s viewed unfavorably by 62 percent of the population, the value of his brand is tanking, and he has no loyalty or allegiance to the Republican Party. He has no intention of taking one for the team or going down with his ship like a noble captain.

Dole and McCain were victims of very unfavorable circumstances.

Even someone like Mitt Romney, who lost in a less challenging electoral environment, can still make a very good case that he was, all things considered, a strong nominee. Romney got a higher share of the vote than the Republican Party Senate nominee in virtually every state that had an election. He carried West Virginia, Missouri, and Indiana while Democrats won Senate races in those states. He did better than losing GOP Senate nominees in blue states like Wisconsin and Minnesota. He did better than losing GOP Senate nominees in purple states like Ohio. And he even did better than _winning_ GOP Senate nominees in the South — even in places like Texas where Ted Cruz faced only nominal opposition from a nobody Democratic nominee.

Trump is in just the opposite situation. Hillary Clinton is an unusually unpopular major party nominee whose saving grace is that Trump is even less popular. Incumbent Republican senators like Kelly Ayotte, Pat Toomey, and Richard Burr are in trouble, but they are running way ahead of Trump in their states. Right now the talk of Washington on both sides of the aisle is whether Trump-induced chaos will end up tanking Republican turnout and giving Democrats a crushing wave down ballot.

In other words, something that unites professional Republicans who’ve turned overtly anti-Trump and those who remain sincerely regretful that he is going to lose is a conviction that Trump has been a disaster for the party.

The establishment gets things wrong all the time, but they got this one right — Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio or even an also-ran like Scott Walker would be giving the Democrats a much tougher time. The Republican Party has a problem, and that problem is Trump.

It would be wrong to say that at this point Donald Trump has given up on winning.

He can always hope that Russian hackers deliver some amazing dirt to Julian Assange or that Clinton collapses in a coughing fit during the third debate.

But to understand his current rhetorical outbursts, you can’t try to understand them as primarily aimed at winning the election. To win an election you are currently losing, you need to persuade new groups of people to change their mind. Calling Bill Clinton a rapist and arguing that Clinton is the beneficiary of a vast international banking conspiracy are not efforts to reassure white, college educated women that Trump is not the unstable boor they fear is he.

What Trump is trying to do, primarily, is convince people who are _already on his side_ that his looming defeat is not _his fault_. It’s Paul Ryan’s fault. It’s the media’s fault. It’s Crooked Hillary’s fault. When the Clinton administration takes office and starts doing things Republicans don’t like, the party’s elected officials in DC are going to think to themselves, “this is all Donald Trump’s fault.”

Trump’s aim is to minimize the number of rank-and-file conservatives who agree with them and convince them that someone — anyone — else is to blame. Trump is not a loyalist who cares about the greater good of the Republican Party. Conversely, he’s not someone who can count on the good will and good graces of other GOP leaders to carry him forward. Whatever he’s planning next — whether it’s Trump TV or a political career for Donald Trump Jr. or a new line of Trump-branded manufactured homes — he needs to go to war to preserve his reputation.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/15/13272980/donald-trump-meltdown

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## T-72

F-22Raptor said:


> http://www.vox.com


lol

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## RabzonKhan

Bernie Sanders versus Gary Johnson’s positions on

Climate change

TPP

Citizens United

Obamacare

Private prisons

Minimum wage

Gun control

College affordability


Every Bernie supporter voting for Johnson needs to see this:


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## Gandhi G in da house

American media is leaving no stone unturned to ensure Trump Loses. The blatant bias and partiality is even worse than any third world (terms that Westerners like to use) country's media. There is no semblance of balance at all.

Btw, Does Hillary have an Open Door Policy toward immigration ?

If yes, then God Save America.

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## RabzonKhan

270 needed to win











LA se Karachi said:


> RCP is a polling aggregate site. It's pretty good in that regard. It gives a good picture of the polling data that's out there for the election. I was just listing the individual pollsters I trust the most.
> 
> 538 was much more helpful in 2008. They're not so special anymore. I personally don't like Nate Silver. But he is good at what he does.
> 
> With that said, I think their projection is a bit too optimistic for Hillary. Ohio, Iowa, Florida, and North Carolina are still very much up for grabs. And I'd be pretty surprised if Hillary actually won Arizona. Although the last time it voted Democratic for President was 20 years ago for Bill Clinton.


Huffington post poll is also a good source, in fact, their tracking model in 2012 elections was closer to the actual results.


*Link 

Obama 48.2% 

Romney 46.7%

*







*Realclearpolitics*
*General Election: Romney vs. Obama*


*Final Results Obama +3.9
RCP Average Obama +0.7


*


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## Desert Fox

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The republican party spent $80M of taxpayers money on investigating Bill Clinton and all they came up with
> was that he got a blowjob by an Intern, which basically is none of their business.
> Whenever HRC is investigated, by republican led committies, basically the same result.
> The "scandals" are mostly the just an 30-year old smear campaign.
> 
> If that money had been spent on protecting US troops in Iraq, how many soldiers lives would have been spared?
> How many now maimed veterans would be at full health?
> 
> The fact that DT made it so far is an embarrassment to the US.
> Watched a program about Abraham Lincolns president run.
> Doubt he would vote Republican today.
> Which former Republican presidents would vote Democrats in this election?


Shows you know nothing about American politics. Shouldn't you be protecting your women from migrant rapists?


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## RabzonKhan

Trump is a hypocrite and a two-faced liar, recently he held a press conference with Bill Clinton accusers....damn crocodile tears. *Link*

But in 1998 interview, he called Paula Jones, the accuser of Bill Clinton, "a loser" and that her accusations were false.







*Eugene, Oregon (CNN) *Donald Trump on Friday accused Hillary Clinton of being "an unbelievably nasty, mean enabler" of her husband's alleged affairs and accused her of destroying the lives of his accusers. *Link*


But in an interview he praised Hillary, saying she was an “incredible woman” and she was “handling the pressure so well”.

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## iPhone

Surprised to learn today when the news reported the Hindu community of new Jersey is supporting Trump for better ties with India. 

Normally Indians vote Democrate but this time around things are different. The attendees mentioned they believe Trump's tougher stance on terrorism is the reason for their support of the candidate. 

I think Modi's right wing views and policy are resonating with the Indian community here thus the support for Trump.


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## T-72



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## boomslang

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The republican party spent $80M of taxpayers money on investigating Bill Clinton and all they came up with was that he got a blowjob by an Intern, which basically is none of their business....




It is the peoples business when he does it to an intern, that's illegal and he did it in the Oval Office which shows a lack of respect for the office. But the best part was that he was found guilty of perjury for lying about it and he was impeached and disbarred. Not to mention the chicks who said he out and out raped them. There are former servicemen who are in prison for doing much less than Killary did with the personal servers. 



KAL-EL said:


> Yep, it's over. And while I'm not a big fan of trump, I'm also not happy that secretary Clinton will be the next president of the United States.
> 
> I like many Americans want to walk into that voting booth on November 8th and hope there is a "none-of-the-above" button to push.



Latest Rasmussen poll has Killary ahead by 4 points with a margin of error of 4 points. Basically a tie. Plus I think there is a bunch of people that will not admit to voting for Trump which skewers the numbers a bit. The Libertarian and Green candidates are siphoning off Killary votes. HAHAHAHAHA !!!



maximuswarrior said:


> LOL yet Hillary is going to win.
> 
> I find it so amusing how any sane being could support Trump after so many revelations. I must say that grab them by the p.... just tops the list. LMAO




The Clintons have been involved in scandals their whole public life. Looks like you've turned a blind eye to Killarys hijinx, just like the MSM has. Open borders. I lie to the public. In cahoots with the DNC against Bernie. Advocate for women yet taking millions from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Defames the women who Bill raped. The whole handling secret emails with gross negligence. 'Needy' Hispanics quote. Destroying 13 smart phones, some after Congress asks to see them. Public defender Killary gets the rapist of a 13 year old girl off and then can be heard on tape laughing about it. I could go on all day. We know these are all real . The allegations against Trump are just that. Allegations. Some of them 35 years old. These women had all this time to sue of whatever but they waited till now to come out with their stories. Fishy. Very fishy.

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## RabzonKhan

One more reason, Donnie should not be the President, he's freaking insane.

The madman once sued comedian Bill Maher for claiming during a TV show appearance that he believed Trump was a son of an Orangutan. Bill Maher jokily said that he would pay Trump $5 million if he could prove that he was not the son of an Orangutan, Trump took that seriously, imagine that, the genius released his birth certificate and then sued Bill Maher's for $5 million, of course yes, he had to withdrew his stupid case without getting a penny.  *Link*







Bill Maher, Trump and his............

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## T-72



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## jha

So how much ahead is Hillary ? 10 or, 15 points ?


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## RabzonKhan

Hillary beats Donny in polls, debates and fundraising, bloody loser! 



*Donald Trump's September fundraising lags behind Hillary Clinton*

*Donald Trump reported raising $100 million for his presidential campaign and the Republican party in September, *a number that trails far behind Hillary Clinton’s fundraising haul in the same month.

Trump’s campaign sent a statement Saturday announcing its “new fundraising record,” which will fill the coffers for his presidential bid as well as the joint efforts of the Republican National Committee, and various state GOP parties. The campaign said Trump himself contributed $2 million of that total.

In total, the campaign and its affiliated joint fundraising committees finished September with approximately $75 million cash on hand.

“These numbers show that Donald Trump continues to have incredible broad based support from across America,” Steven Mnuchin, Trump’s finance chairman.

*But Trump’s campaign apparatus is playing a catch-up game compared to Hillary Clinton’s behemoth fundraising efforts, which drew in more than $154 million for her campaign and the Democratic Party in September alone. *HFA, along with the campaign’s other joint fundraising committees, began the month of October with a combined $150 million cash on hand. 

And when it comes to advertising, the numbers in the final stretch of the campaign continue the election-cycle trend of Clinton outspending Trump.

Bloomberg reports that Clinton and various super PACs supporting the Democratic nominee have booked ads through election day with buys totaling $78.3 million. The amount is more than twice what Trump and his super PAC backers have scheduled -- $50 million, according to Kantar Media. *Link*


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## RabzonKhan

*Poll: Women propel Hillary Clinton into battleground lead over Donald Trump
*
By ANTHONY SALVANTO CBS NEWS October 16, 2016


A big swing in the women’s vote has propelled Hillary Clinton into a six-point lead across the battleground states, as seven in ten women feel Donald Trump does not respect them. 





Last month the women’s vote in these key states was five points more for Clinton; today it is 15 points in Clinton’s favor – accounting for most of the swing, overall - and it even outweighs partisanship. Trump was at 84 percent among Republican women then, and has dropped to 77 percent today. *Read more*


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## KAL-EL

boomslang said:


> Plus I think there is a bunch of people that will not admit to voting for Trump which skewers the numbers a bit



I'm inclined to agree with that. I was just recently talking with a friend about this exact subject.

We talked about the fact that there might be a significant amount of people out there who because of political correctness and it not currently being socially acceptable wouldn't admit that they were going to vote for Trump.

But will those numbers be enough to take him over the top in the end though? By all indications it looks like they won't be. With the way this election has been going though, I wouldn't rule anything out.

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## Gandhi G in da house

iPhone said:


> Surprised to learn today when the news reported the Hindu community of new Jersey is supporting Trump for better ties with India.
> 
> Normally Indians vote Democrate but this time around things are different. The attendees mentioned they believe Trump's tougher stance on terrorism is the reason for their support of the candidate.
> 
> I think Modi's right wing views and policy are resonating with the Indian community here thus the support for Trump.



Those guys are still mostly voting Hillary. Stupid I think.


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## iPhone

nick_indian said:


> Those guys are still mostly voting Hillary. Stupid I think.


stupid, indeed.


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## Azeri440

KAL-EL said:


> I'm inclined to agree with that. I was just recently talking with a friend about this exact subject.
> 
> We talked about the fact that there might be a significant amount of people out there who because of political correctness and it not currently being socially acceptable wouldn't admit that they were going to vote for Trump.
> 
> But will those numbers be enough to take him over the top in the end though? By all indications it looks like they won't be. With the way this election has been going though, I wouldn't rule anything out.



agree, this has been a weird year, Trump outperformed the expectations of the same sources that are now posted here showing Hillary's lead. 
I am just waiting for November to see what actually happens.

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## T-72

more Clinton News Network lies


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/787749893649600512


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## OldTwilight

Americans in their movie support the idea of adultery and even put sanction on others country for it ....

But now they destroyed Trump for acting as a real super rich American ( did you see Iron man 1 ) 


Trump was USA last hope , and they destroyed him ....

I'm happy and worry , Clinton will continue current USA policies and in next 15-20 years it will end USA empire .... In mean time she will split more blood in our region

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## Darmashkian

LA se Karachi said:


> Indeed. Rasmussen has a well-known Republican tilt. They performed very poorly in 2012. The pollsters that I would pay attention to most are NBC News/Wall Street Journal, Survey USA, and PPP.


that LA times too isn't that bad.

Their prediction was some 0.5% behind the real result in 2012.


KAL-EL said:


> I'm inclined to agree with that. I was just recently talking with a friend about this exact subject.
> 
> We talked about the fact that there might be a significant amount of people out there who because of political correctness and it not currently being socially acceptable wouldn't admit that they were going to vote for Trump.
> 
> But will those numbers be enough to take him over the top in the end though? By all indications it looks like they won't be. With the way this election has been going though, I wouldn't rule anything out.


In India & Pakistan,this phenomenon is called the silent voter phenomenon

Here the voter will remain silent about his real preference to prevent any public humiliation or attacks from the opposing party or it's candidate on this voter or to protect his & his close one's lives or it counld be any other reason. etc.

Such a voter is called the silent voter

Such voters are usually found in rural areas or basically any place where you need to be silent if you aren't voting for the local hero/landlord/rich guy or are voting for a person widely hated in your area.

Such voters exist in the USA right now thanks to Donald Trump's campaign & statements.I know some Indian Americans who are in this group & intend to vote for him but haven't told many people.

Many people are keeping their support of him silent to make sure their friends don't know about it(college),to save their marriage(men) or to maintain respect in their community(minorities,mormons etc).

But whether this will help him win or not,I have no idea.



Azeri440 said:


> agree, this has been a weird year, Trump outperformed the expectations of the same sources that are now posted here showing Hillary's lead.
> I am just waiting for November to see what actually happens.


He's broken almost EVERY rule in the American Political Arena/Western Politics. He's made about 200+ outrageous statements/acts, just one would be enough to hurt any conventional politico's chance of winning or destroy their career.

& yet he is close to winning..... O.O
Tells you how much anger there is towards the establishment & how bad a candidate Hillary is.

Still...The fact he won the nomination itself is an amazing miracle! The fact that he is at 40%+ right now is much more than a miracle.

I too am eagerly waiting for November,I believe this will end up like Brexit & the recent Columbian referendum on the peace deal with FARC.

In both cases,simple conservative nationalism won narrowly even when nobody expected them to win;not even themselves!!
Nigel Farage conceded victory hours after voting ended only to receive a pleasant surprise later.

Brexit-
Most of the entire establishment, businessman,Most politicians,think tanks,economists, intellectuals & actors supported staying in the EU,International figures like Obama & the IMF had nothing better to do than butt in & support staying in...

End result- Brexit will happen.All of the above were left shocked.

Columbia:-
The entire international community supported the deal so did the govt. & the same people as above.(except Obama who probably learnt his lesson).FARC & those supporting it too wanted this deal passed.
Polls showed this deal would pass with a 60-65% +saying Yes.

End result:- the referendum to support this version of the peace deal failed. All of the above were left shock

I believe till the last few days,Donald Trump will be below Hillary & then it could possibly change. The massive bias of the MSM towards Hillary too could end up hurting her.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One point to note:- In both cases,most of those on the winning side expressed fear that they couldn't win when asked by pollsters who they thought would win.(before voting happened).

We are seeing this repeat among the Trump supporters too when they are being asked by pollsters,they believe they will lose. 

Will it repeat or not?? Let's wait & see,I can't wait for this election to end.

EDIT:- Read this article
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/10/trump-win-election-brexit-right-wing-214359

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## Gandhi G in da house

OldTwilight said:


> Americans in their movie support the idea of adultery and even put sanction on others country for it ....
> 
> But now they destroyed Trump for acting lie a real sure rich American ( did you see Iron man 1 )
> 
> 
> Trump was USA last hope , and they destroyed him ....
> 
> I'm happy and worry , Clinton will continue current USA policies and in next 15-20 years it will end USA empire .... In mean time she will split more blood in our region



When an Iranian calls Trump America;s last hope, you know how wrong the American media and the left are getting it.


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## RabzonKhan

Darmashkian said:


> that LA times too isn't that bad.
> 
> Their prediction was some 0.5% behind the real result in 2012.


Interesting, do you have a source?



> Many people are keeping their support of him silent to make sure their friends don't know about it(college),to save their marriage(men) or to maintain respect in their community(minorities,mormons etc).


I agree, there are certainly people who won't openly support Trump, but there are also people who won't openly support Hillary, remember, both of them are one of the most unpopular presidential candidates ever, my friend, actually it's a two Way Street.

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## Darmashkian

RabzonKhan said:


> Interesting, do you have a source?
> 
> 
> I agree, there are certainly people who won't openly support Trump, but there are also people who won't openly support Hillary, remember, both of them are one of the most unpopular presidential candidates ever, my friend, actually it's a two Way Street.


Check their website out. The LA times did not do it,but the team of researchers behind the poll did it.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-poll-faq-20161006-snap-story.html

*Have you done this before?*
Yes, the team of researchers at USC who conduct the poll used the same technique four years ago to forecast the 2012 election.

*How’d that turn out?*
The poll was one of the most accurate of the year. It predicted that President Obama would be reelected with a margin of victory of 3.32 percentage points. He won by 3.85 points. Most other polls underestimated Obama’s margin by more than that.

Check this too http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/10/14/why_pay_attention_to_the_la_times_poll.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I disagree on your second part.
But I won't elaborate more, I wrote a long story here but removed it on a friend's private recommendation.

I'll just say this, read what I said+understand that it's tough to support Trump or defend him if you live in a city,liberal area or an area with a good no. of minorities.

But that's not the case for Clinton

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## RabzonKhan

Trump isn't happy with Baldwin’s portrayal of him in Saturday Night Live, what's wrong with this man. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/787612552654155776





Donald Trump vs. Hillary Clinton Debate Cold Open - SNL


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## boomslang

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump isn't happy with Baldwin’s portrayal of him in Saturday Night Live, what's wrong with this man.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/787612552654155776
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Trump vs. Hillary Clinton Debate Cold Open - SNL




I haven't watched SNL in 20 years.


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## RabzonKhan

Darmashkian said:


> Check their website out. The LA times did not do it,but the team of researchers behind the poll did it.
> http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-poll-faq-20161006-snap-story.html
> 
> Check this too http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/10/14/why_pay_attention_to_the_la_times_poll.html


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/10/14/why_pay_attention_to_the_la_times_poll.html



> I disagree on your second part.
> But I won't elaborate more, I wrote a long story here but removed it on a friend's private recommendation.
> 
> I'll just say this, read what I said+understand that it's tough to support Trump or defend him if you live in a city,liberal area or an area with a good no. of minorities.
> 
> But that's not the case for Clinton


I can see that you deleted some of your comments/questions, may I ask why?

Sorry, no offense, but I had saved your comments/questions.



> Is Clinton called a Nazi,racist,xenophobe,misoygnist,Hitler,etc etc? Did u see the news of the GOP office being firebombed in NC?


I'm a little surprised that you will even ask a question like that, okay, here we go:

if you type, hillary is racist, *51,200,000 results *will show, please check them out, you'll be surprise not only right wing but even well-known far left publications are alleging that Hillary is a racist.

Here's one for you from the Huffington Post:

*How Can Black People Trust Hillary Clinton After the 2008 Campaign? Link
*

Here's another one for you, 84% of trumps supporters want her in the prison at 40% believe she is an “actual demon”

To say that this election cycle's presidential race is as polarized as any in modern history is perhaps an understatement: the *PPP poll also found that 84 percent of Trump supporters believe Clinton should be in prison* and—get this— *40 percent believe she is an actual “demon.” Link*




> Does any major publication like the Huff.Post say "F!ck you if you don't vote for Donald Trump!!" Do you see major actors,intellectuals,editorials or posts come up describing how she will destroy the USA & mess it up forever?


Here's another result from Google, hillary will destroy America 3,260,000 results came up. *Link*

Just wondering, don't you read, New York Post, Infowars (Alex Jones), Breitbart News?

As I said my friend, the hatred is from both sides, this election is very polarized, and both candidates are very unpopular. Many of my friends cannot believe I'm supporting Hillary, they asked me, how can a an honest man like you support a “croak” like her, she should be in jail ,etc.

Sorry, I have to run now.



boomslang said:


> I haven't watched SNL in 20 years.


Did you break your 20 year record?


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## KAL-EL

@Darmashkian "the silent voter phenomenon" is exactly what I was thinking of, but couldn't quite encapsulate the term into words at the time.

There is definitely political speculation here that Donald Trump has a large amount of that so-called silent voter phenomenon.

I still think it's all but over for him, but with this election going the way it has been, anything is still possible.

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## notorious_eagle

KAL-EL said:


> @Darmashkian "the silent voter phenomenon" is exactly what I was thinking of, but couldn't quite encapsulate the term into words at the time.
> 
> There is definitely political speculation here that Donald Trump has a large amount of that so-called silent voter phenomenon.
> 
> I still think it's all but over for him, *but with this election going the way it has been, anything is still possible.*



I don't think so. Trump is quite the political suicide bomber. He has single handedly destroyed his chances of becoming the President. He knows that he has lost, this is why he is bit**ing about rigged elections.

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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


>



LMAO at black Trump supporters. What is next... I hope for Pakistan's sake that Trump wins, but it is over for him. Trump is a blessing in disguise. He is going to singlehandedly destroy US reputation.



nick_indian said:


> American media is leaving no stone unturned to ensure Trump Loses. The blatant bias and partiality is even worse than any third world (terms that Westerners like to use) country's media. There is no semblance of balance at all.
> 
> Btw, Does Hillary have an Open Door Policy toward immigration ?
> 
> If yes, then God Save America.



Evil media. Evil left. Destroying the world. Hanuman Trump hero number one. LMAO


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## KAL-EL

I just found out that in the state of Nevada, there is an actual real "none of the above" option one can choose in their voting booths during elections.

I wish there was that kind of option here in my state

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## LA se Karachi

iPhone said:


> Surprised to learn today when the news reported the Hindu community of new Jersey is supporting Trump for better ties with India.
> 
> Normally Indians vote Democrate but this time around things are different. The attendees mentioned they believe Trump's tougher stance on terrorism is the reason for their support of the candidate.
> 
> I think Modi's right wing views and policy are resonating with the Indian community here thus the support for Trump.




The Indian-American community is voting for Clinton by a wide margin. Perhaps even more so than usual. They are already one of the most Democratic demographics in the nation. The ones that do vote Republican do so primarily for economic reasons (low taxes on the wealthy and fewer business regulations). But his anti-immigrant, nativist campaign and his inexperience in combination with his unstable personality has pushed many of them away.



Darmashkian said:


> that LA times too isn't that bad.
> 
> Their prediction was some 0.5% behind the real result in 2012.




Perhaps. But what's far more relevant is that it's one of the very few polls that actually show Trump in the lead. Almost all other polls show Hillary ahead, and that's a very bad sign for Trump. If the polls remain essentially the same come election day, it would be unprecedented for him to actually win.

I have no personal bias against the poll. I don't like Hillary at all, and live in the Los Angeles area.



Darmashkian said:


> Many people are keeping their support of him silent to make sure their friends don't know about it(college),to save their marriage(men) or to maintain respect in their community(minorities,mormons etc).




Lol. That tells you everything you need to know about the way Trump is viewed here.



Darmashkian said:


> In India & Pakistan,this phenomenon is called the silent voter phenomenon




There are definitely some "silent voters" who support Trump, but polls typically pick them up. They have little to lose by telling a pollster that they are voting for him, even if they might not tell their family and friends.



Darmashkian said:


> I too am eagerly waiting for November,I believe this will end up like Brexit & the recent Columbian referendum on the peace deal with FARC.




I do think that polls are overstating her support somewhat. Primarily because of turn-out predictions. That's the big question. It was perhaps the biggest reason the two referendums you mentioned turned out the way that they did. The winning side was more motivated than the other, and many on the losing side assumed they would win and didn't turn out to actually vote.

In a battle of two intensely disliked candidates, Hillary can still win even though the public doesn't actually like her. Because she is somewhat less unpopular than Trump, she would likely win if everyone turned out to vote. But some won't because of the disdain that Americans have for both candidates, despite what some voters tell pollsters right now. Motivation matters.

This is the one thing that could save Trump. Hillary doesn't have much appeal to young voters, economically disadvantaged voters, or leftists who feel that Democrats (especially ones like Hillary) don't accomplish much when they are elected. These were voters who favored Sanders by wide margins in the primary. Hillary, on the other hand, was the "centrist" candidate. Despite this, however, Sanders trounced her among self-described independents and Republicans as well. His appeal to all voters was significantly broader than hers. Polls showed that he would have done a lot better than her in the general election.

The two groups that she did very well with were older voters (55+) and African-Americans. Some of the most reliable voters who are mostly set in their ways, with little chance of them voting for Trump. That was enough to win the low-turnout Democratic Primary. But the general election is a very different game. Low turnout among the less reliable voters that Sanders did very well with, and lower support from independents, could doom her. The only reason that she's winning is because she's running against Trump. Replace him with just about any other Republican (except perhaps Cruz), and she would lose. Her support among these groups remains fragile.



KAL-EL said:


> I just found out that in the state of Nevada, there is an actual real "none of the above" option one can choose in their voting booths during elections.
> 
> I wish there was that kind of option here in my state




Tell me about it. I plan on leaving the field blank.

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## Nilgiri

@T-72 @Desert Fox






Listen to first 5 minutes at least about the "polls"

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## OldTwilight

So , who are other candidates ?!


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## Gandhi G in da house

maximuswarrior said:


> Evil media. Evil left. Destroying the world. Hanuman Trump hero number one. LMAO



@waz

Someone who doesn't have the balls to put up real flags shouldn't be LMAOing at anything.

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## KAL-EL

OldTwilight said:


> So , who are other candidates ?!



Jean-Luc Picard, Kathryn Janeway and Samantha Carter.


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## T-72

OldTwilight said:


> So , who are other candidates ?!


Gary "what is Aleppo" Johnson 






and Jill Stein, who thinks Hillary could start a nuclear war with Russia

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## cloud4000

nick_indian said:


> American media is leaving no stone unturned to ensure Trump Loses. The blatant bias and partiality is even worse than any third world (terms that Westerners like to use) country's media. There is no semblance of balance at all.
> 
> Btw, Does Hillary have an Open Door Policy toward immigration ?
> 
> If yes, then God Save America.



Many Americans, both on the left and right of the political spectrum, don't care what the mainstream media says about either of the candidates. They don't trust them. With advent of internet and social media, people are drawing their own conclusions on whom they want to support. I have watched network or cable news in years and I'm not any less informed about the issues or the candidates. If the MSM dies tomorrow, no one will miss it.

As for open door immigration. Even if Trump fails, he will succeed in one thing, pushing the issue of immigration to the right. Expect piece meal reforms on immigration, but don't expect anything on amnesty for illegal immigrants. This is a no go area for a long time to come.



iPhone said:


> Surprised to learn today when the news reported the Hindu community of new Jersey is supporting Trump for better ties with India.
> 
> Normally Indians vote Democrate but this time around things are different. The attendees mentioned they believe Trump's tougher stance on terrorism is the reason for their support of the candidate.
> 
> I think Modi's right wing views and policy are resonating with the Indian community here thus the support for Trump.



Hillary Clinton is also for better ties with India, so I don't see why Indians would support Trump on this issue alone. But these same Trump supporters are also hardcore Modi supporters too. And if there's one thing they share, it's an anti-Muslim stance. Doesn't explain the whole story, but a good chunk.

My father is a Republican and he's voting for Trump because a) He was the Republican candidate and b) he can't stand Clinton. I tried to dissuade that a vote for Trump is stupid, but he's standing firm.

Actually most Indians are natural Republicans, but since the GOP insist on catering to whites, they run to Democrats.

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## RabzonKhan

The Daily Show - Jordan Klepper Fingers the Pulse - Conspiracy Theories Thrive at a Trump Rally 





The Daily Show - Putting Donald Trump Supporters Through an Ideology Test


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## Tiger Genie

RabzonKhan said:


> The Daily Show - Jordan Klepper Fingers the Pulse - Conspiracy Theories Thrive at a Trump Rally
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Daily Show - Putting Donald Trump Supporters Through an Ideology Test




This is more than embarrassing.


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## RabzonKhan

Tiger Genie said:


> This is more than embarrassing.


The funny thing is they don't even notice that he’s making fun of them.


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## anon45

KAL-EL said:


> I just found out that in the state of Nevada, there is an actual real "none of the above" option one can choose in their voting booths during elections.
> 
> I wish there was that kind of option here in my state



Just write it in.

Also Obama weighing in

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/18/498404467/president-obama-to-donald-trump-stop-whining

*President Obama To Donald Trump: 'Stop Whining'*


*



*

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## Nilgiri

http://www.hannity.com/articles/ele...ll-democratic-operative-fired-after-15212754/

Always fun to contrast with the Obama post above mine 

Obama, the MSM's wet dream and ultimate posterboy since 08

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## RabzonKhan

President Obama is absolutely right, Trump should stop whining, for heaven’s sake, we haven't had the election yet, so how the hell could it be rigged.


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## Nilgiri

Here's part I for all those interested:

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## Lavrentiy

If US elections are about to be rigged, then Pakistan should immediately transfer Sheikh Rasheed and Imran Khan to help Donald Trump. 

Its time that the leader of the First World (USA) witnesses Third World politics on its own soil.


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## Gandhi G in da house

Lavrentiy said:


> If US elections are about to be rigged, then Pakistan should immediately transfer Sheikh Rasheed and Imran Khan to help Donald Trump.
> 
> Its time that the leader of the First World (USA) witnesses Third World politics on its own soil.



This American election has been more third world than most third world elections already.



RabzonKhan said:


> President Obama is absolutely right, Trump should stop whining, for heaven’s sake, we haven't had the election yet, so how the hell could it be rigged.
> 
> 
> View attachment 344612



So much for women loving and respecting Hillary supporters.

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## boomslang

anon45 said:


> Just write it in.
> 
> Also Obama weighing in
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *



O'Douchebag doesn't give a ****. Even as ObamaCare, his 'legacy' program is crumbling he's thinking about hitting the links.



nick_indian said:


> ....So much for women loving and respecting Hillary supporters.




Bill LOVES women. He loves them so much that he rapes them.

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## Nilgiri

boomslang said:


> O'Douchebag doesn't give a ****. Even as ObamaCare, his 'legacy' program is crumbling he's thinking about hitting the links.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bill LOVES women. He loves them so much that he rapes them.



Remember according to the MSM and Obama admin, someone losing one ok paying job (because of obamacare premiums forcing downsizing) and forced to work 2 - 3 crap temp jobs (and also forced to have worse health plan) is a net JOB GROWTH


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## Irfan Baloch

RabzonKhan said:


> President Obama is absolutely right, Trump should stop whining, for heaven’s sake, we haven't had the election yet, so how the hell could it be rigged.
> 
> 
> View attachment 344612


I dont know about her but 
by the way while we are at it

I think this act by this femanatzi was retarded she is lucky she didnt get what she was asking








@boomslang she went in a republican rally. but came out without being violated ..had it been India or Pakistan then she would have got her wish and more

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## A_Poster

At one level, people need to sympathize with poor Bill for finding comfort in arms of women other than his wife.



KAL-EL said:


> I'm inclined to agree with that. I was just recently talking with a friend about this exact subject.
> 
> We talked about the fact that there might be a significant amount of people out there who because of political correctness and it not currently being socially acceptable wouldn't admit that they were going to vote for Trump.
> 
> But will those numbers be enough to take him over the top in the end though? By all indications it looks like they won't be. With the way this election has been going though, I wouldn't rule anything out.




Well, it was enough for Brexit. So who knows?

And here PC needs are much higher than it was for Brexit.

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## Nilgiri

A_Poster said:


> At one level, people need to sympathize with poor Bill for finding comfort in arms of women other than his wife.



Well its fine when its consensual as say the lewinsky thing (and others) was.

When its assault (rape), that is never acceptable whatever your wife/political companion is like.

I mean no one really cares that FDR had a serious extra-marital affair and probably some others on the side too for that very reason.

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## anon45

Nilgiri said:


> Here's part I for all those interested:



Don't have time right now, will be back later, but just want to say James o Keefe is a slimeball and any video he releases shouldn't be trusted.

Feel free to look him up on wiki.


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## Nilgiri

anon45 said:


> Don't have time right now, will be back later, but just want to say James o Keefe is a slimeball and any video he releases shouldn't be trusted.
> 
> Feel free to look him up on wiki.



Doesn't change the fact of what this guy he was talking to was saying, or that he got fired because of it.

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## KAL-EL

Nilgiri said:


> Doesn't change the fact of what this guy he was talking to was saying, or that he got fired because of it.



The video is very damning indeed. James O'Keefe does have a reputation for being a slimeball in some circles, but that doesn't take away from what was freely admitted to in the video.

And all of a sudden after that video became public, that guy became persona non grata

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## Nilgiri

KAL-EL said:


> The video is very damning indeed. James O'Keefe does have a reputation for being a slimeball in some circles, but that doesn't take away from what was freely admitted to in the video.
> 
> And all of a sudden after that video became public, that guy became persona non grata



Indeed.... swing state shenanigans must be looked out for vigilantly by localised, neutral and independent citizen groups.

I can't believe how lax the US is regarding voter lists and voter ID.

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## Darmashkian

Nilgiri said:


> Indeed.... swing state shenanigans must be looked out for vigilantly by localised, neutral and independent citizen groups.
> 
> I can't believe how lax the US is regarding voter lists and voter ID.


All because of the Dems. SUch a situation favours them a lot.

Get this you need an ID card for welfare benefits & a car drivers license+a lot more,but wanting one for voting is racist. -_- 

When the repubs try to change this carelessness, they are called racist by these human rights people & the Dems.

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## anon45

KAL-EL said:


> The video is very damning indeed. James O'Keefe does have a reputation for being a slimeball in some circles, but that doesn't take away from what was freely admitted to in the video.
> 
> And all of a sudden after that video became public, that guy became persona non grata



The thing is, the man has edited videos before to make it seem like they are admitting things to questions that he never in fact asked them for that question. That's what I mean when I say you can't trust his videos, you don't know how he has twisted the footage to make it seem that way.

Here is part of the acorn video






Remember, this video was demonstrably found to be edited by James O Keefe to make it seem like they were agreeing to help a pimp in the underage sex trade develop his business, which was found out through the court was not in fact what happened, and O Keefe had to pay a huge settlement to the employees.

Also James O Keefe is essentially employed by Breitbart.

Here is his wiki page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_O'Keefe

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## F-22Raptor

Trump’s path to an electoral college victory isn’t narrow. It’s nonexistent.

The trajectory of the 2016 presidential race — which will result in a Hillary Clinton victory — remains largely unchanged from May, when Donald Trump and Clinton were in the process of wrapping up their nominations.

But what has changed recently is Clinton’s likely winning margin. For many weeks, even months, I have believed that Clinton would defeat Trump by three to six points. If anything, that range now looks a bit low, with the Democratic nominee apparently headed for a more convincing victory, quite possibly in the four-to-eight-point range.

Trump continues to be his own worst enemy, saying or tweeting things that only fuel chatter about his current and past views, values and behavior. His comments about people — from Vladimir Putin and Alicia Machado to some of the women who have accused him of sexual assault — have kept the focus on him at a time when he should be making the election a referendum on Clinton.

No, Trump’s supporters have not turned on him. But he trails badly with only a few weeks to go until Nov. 8, and he must broaden his appeal to have any chance of winning. That is now impossible.

Major national polls show Clinton leading among likely voters by anywhere from as few as four points, in the Oct. 10-13 Washington Post-ABC News poll, to as many as 11 points, in the Oct. 10-13 NBC News-Wall Street Journal survey.

Clinton’s personal ratings among registered voters remain terrible. A mind-boggling 62 percent of respondents in the Post-ABC poll said she is not “honest and trustworthy,” and 57 percent of those polled said they had an unfavorable view of her.

Yet these numbers help explain why Clinton is ahead in the race and could win by a large margin: Trump’s numbers are even worse.

A sizable 64 percent in the same poll said Trump is not honest or trustworthy, and an identical percentage said that he doesn’t have the temperament to be an effective president. A majority, 58 percent, said Trump is not qualified to be president, and 2 out of 3 respondents had an unfavorable view of the GOP nominee.

Trump is and has been a disaster as a presidential nominee, and that will not change in the campaign’s final days. Nor is there any reason to believe that voters from important demographic groups will warm to him. He continues to play only to his core supporters.

There is no surge among white voters for Trump — at least not enough to offset the Republican and swing voters he will lose.

The newest NBC-Wall Street Journal poll shows Trump doing worse against Clinton than Mitt Romney did against President Obama with almost every demographic group, including men, women, whites, Latinos, Republicans, voters with household incomes of more than $100,000 per year, voters with a college degree, voters with a postgraduate degree and voters 65 and older.

African Americans, white men without a college degree and younger voters are among the few groups with which Clinton is underperforming compared with Obama. But that should not give much comfort to Trump, who is drawing only 9 percent of African Americans, compared with the 6 percent that Romney drew against the first African American president.

It would be a mistake to call Trump’s current path to an electoral-college victory narrow. It is nonexistent. Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin, once part of the Trump scenario, have never been “in play,” and he is not competitive in states Obama won only narrowly in 2012, such as Virginia and Colorado. Trump is more likely to lose North Carolina than win it, which would put him under 200 electoral votes.

Frankly, the writing has been on the wall for months about this race. You simply needed to look at the candidates, their campaign teams, the map and the voters.

The public’s mood certainly offered Trump an opportunity to make the election about Clinton and the president, and a serious Republican nominee could have taken advantage of the desire for change and Clinton’s baggage to win the race. But Donald Trump was always the worst messenger possible for delivering that message.

In one of my last columns for Roll Call, on May 10, I wrote that:

Given the makeup of the likely electorate, state voting patterns, the images of the candidates, the deeply fractured GOP and the early survey data, Clinton starts off with a decisive advantage in the contest. A blowout is possible.

Three months later, on Aug. 9, I reiterated that Trump was so poorly positioned for the fall campaign that he “needs a miracle to win.”

That conclusion was based both on the polls and on the reality that nominees who trail by double digits after the second national convention do not win presidential elections.

Now, with early voting already underway and only three weeks left until Election Day, the writing is on the wall. Clinton is headed for solid popular-vote and electoral-vote victories that are larger than Obama’s were over Romney.

While last-minute WikiLeaks releases could be embarrassing for Clinton, the battle lines of the 2016 presidential race are already set. Both the Post-ABC and NBC-Wall Street Journal polls show only a handful of voters still undecided in the race, and few committed voters are open to changing their minds.

Clinton’s lead could still widen or narrow a couple of points, depending on events. If her victory looks inevitable, some progressives may conclude that they can defect to Jill Stein without handing the White House to Trump. But the most important question is no longer whether Trump or Clinton will win but how large Clinton’s margin will be and whether she will have coattails.

Actually, those have been the most important questions for months.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-victory-non-existent/?tid=pm_politics_pop_b

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## Darmashkian

A_Poster said:


> At one level, people need to sympathize with poor Bill for finding comfort in arms of women other than his wife.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it was enough for Brexit. So who knows?
> 
> And here PC needs are much higher than it was for Brexit.



@KAL-EL @LA se Karachi I feel sorry for your bad choices  Both candidates suck(though I liked HC till a few months back). DOn't worry,I'm sure either of them will last for 1 term only. Best of Luck in surviving them! 

Frankly speaking this election is no normal election,otherwise Trump would never have won the nomination,forget becoming POTUS. But the world is changing(politically speaking);in the west nativism,anti-establishment feelings & anti-PCness is rising.

There is a lot which is similar between both these elections.(& the Colombian referendum+the Austrian presidential election.....)
& that's why I;m not focusing much on statistics & most polls(Even the LA times one).
There is a silent voter,he will come out in good nos. with the trump fanboys who have extraordinary enthu. behind them!

DO Read this link http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/10/trump-win-election-brexit-right-wing-214359

Especially these paras:-

_Don’t underestimate the power of nativist populism. That’s the harsh lesson we in Britain learned less than four months ago, when Brexit blew up in our faces and confounded nearly every prediction. It’s one the Austrians and French are learning even now, as they keep counting out (then are forced to count back in) right-wing populist backlashes to the establishment. And it’s the lesson that American pundits who are already predicting a comfortable victory for Hillary Clinton over the embattled Donald Trump—if not a historic landslide—should take on board before they start relaxing too much in the next few weeks.

These assumptions continued to guide the national debate right up until the contest itself. In the prediction markets, throughout the final week of the campaign, the percentage chance that *Remain would win did not fall below 75 percent. In the final days, seven polling companies issued their “final” polls, none of which forecast the eventual result. In three cases, the result was within the margin of error, though only one had put Brexit ahead, while the remaining four had overestimated support for Remain. *Every single poll, noted the British Polling Council, even those within sampling error, had overstated support for Remain. Even on the day of the vote, three polls put Remain ahead, one by a striking 10 points.

*The betting markets were just as confident; on the morning of the referendum, they put Remain’s chance of victory at 76 percent and, by the close of voting, at 86 percent. When you asked voters who they expected to win, it was the same story; in the final 24 hours of the campaign, only 27 percent expected Brexit to triumph. *Those who sought to keep Britain in the EU, having recruited President Barack Obama to their cause, expressed relief. An anxious Prime Minister David Cameron was told to relax.

Almost everyone was proved wrong by the massive turnout of Brexit voters, who had been derided by established politicians as loons and racists and who were not expected to be organized, especially at the polling stations. “Leave” won 52 percent of the vote across the U.K., and nearly 54 percent in England. This figure rocketed higher in poorer industrial and rural communities that had been cut adrift by globalization and felt under threat from unprecedented levels of immigration—the analogue to many Trump voters today (as even Trump himself has suggested, tweeting that he would soon be known as “Mr. Brexit”). Support for Brexit reached striking levels among those same groups of voters who are now backing Trump—nearly 60 percent among voters on low incomes, over 70 percent among manual workers and 75 percent among people with no qualifications. In forgotten England, the anti-elite and anti-immigration message had spread like wildfire. The left behind mobilized in a big way.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------_
If Paul lepage(POlitico calls him America's craziest governor) could win the governorship of a blue state like Maine.. then Trump can become POTUS!
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...Q9v32V7VJPHxN4ZdiD3L/story.html?event=event25
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/fivepoints/paul-lepage-americas-craziest-governor




KAL-EL said:


> @Darmashkian "the silent voter phenomenon" is exactly what I was thinking of, but couldn't quite encapsulate the term into words at the time.
> 
> There is definitely political speculation here that Donald Trump has a large amount of that so-called silent voter phenomenon.
> 
> I still think it's all but over for him, but with this election going the way it has been, anything is still possible.


It's never over till the last day in electoral politics 

There was an CM/Governor who was winning by a good margin. In the last few days,he said something which the people of his state found humiliating... & he lost heavily. I forget the names, but I do remember this happening..



RabzonKhan said:


> I can see that you deleted some of your comments/questions, may I ask why?
> 
> Sorry, no offense, but I had saved your comments/questions.
> 
> 
> I'm a little surprised that you will even ask a question like that, okay, here we go:
> 
> if you type, hillary is racist, *51,200,000 results *will show, please check them out, you'll be surprise not only right wing but even well-known far left publications are alleging that Hillary is a racist.
> 
> Here's one for you from the Huffington Post:
> 
> *How Can Black People Trust Hillary Clinton After the 2008 Campaign? Link
> *
> 
> Here's another one for you, 84% of trumps supporters want her in the prison at 40% believe she is an “actual demon”
> 
> To say that this election cycle's presidential race is as polarized as any in modern history is perhaps an understatement: the *PPP poll also found that 84 percent of Trump supporters believe Clinton should be in prison* and—get this— *40 percent believe she is an actual “demon.” Link*
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another result from Google, hillary will destroy America 3,260,000 results came up. *Link*
> 
> Just wondering, don't you read, New York Post, Infowars (Alex Jones), Breitbart News?
> 
> As I said my friend, the hatred is from both sides, this election is very polarized, and both candidates are very unpopular. Many of my friends cannot believe I'm supporting Hillary, they asked me, how can a an honest man like you support a “croak” like her, she should be in jail ,etc.
> 
> Sorry, I have to run now.
> 
> 
> Did you break your 20 year record?


Will talk later to u on this,



LA se Karachi said:


> The Indian-American community is voting for Clinton by a wide margin. Perhaps even more so than usual. They are already one of the most Democratic demographics in the nation. The ones that do vote Republican do so primarily for economic reasons (low taxes on the wealthy and fewer business regulations). But his anti-immigrant, nativist campaign and his inexperience in combination with his unstable personality has pushed many of them away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps. But what's far more relevant is that it's one of the very few polls that actually show Trump in the lead. Almost all other polls show Hillary ahead, and that's a very bad sign for Trump. If the polls remain essentially the same come election day, it would be unprecedented for him to actually win.
> 
> I have no personal bias against the poll. I don't like Hillary at all, and live in the Los Angeles area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. That tells you everything you need to know about the way Trump is viewed here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are definitely some "silent voters" who support Trump, but polls typically pick them up. They have little to lose by telling a pollster that they are voting for him, even if they might not tell their family and friends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do think that polls are overstating her support somewhat. Primarily because of turn-out predictions. That's the big question. It was perhaps the biggest reason the two referendums you mentioned turned out the way that they did. The winning side was more motivated than the other, and many on the losing side assumed they would win and didn't turn out to actually vote.
> 
> In a battle of two intensely disliked candidates, Hillary can still win even though the public doesn't actually like her. Because she is somewhat less unpopular than Trump, she would likely win if everyone turned out to vote. But some won't because of the disdain that Americans have for both candidates, despite what some voters tell pollsters right now. Motivation matters.
> 
> This is the one thing that could save Trump. Hillary doesn't have much appeal to young voters, economically disadvantaged voters, or leftists who feel that Democrats (especially ones like Hillary) don't accomplish much when they are elected. These were voters who favored Sanders by wide margins in the primary. Hillary, on the other hand, was the "centrist" candidate. Despite this, however, Sanders trounced her among self-described independents and Republicans as well. His appeal to all voters was significantly broader than hers. Polls showed that he would have done a lot better than her in the general election.
> 
> The two groups that she did very well with were older voters (55+) and African-Americans. Some of the most reliable voters who are mostly set in their ways, with little chance of them voting for Trump. That was enough to win the low-turnout Democratic Primary. But the general election is a very different game. Low turnout among the less reliable voters that Sanders did very well with, and lower support from independents, could doom her. The only reason that she's winning is because she's running against Trump. Replace him with just about any other Republican (except perhaps Cruz), and she would lose. Her support among these groups remains fragile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me about it. I plan on leaving the field blank.


1)yep,I agree with what u said about Trump+a lot of the stuff said about him. But don't forget,millions of Americans love him   & 40%+ of your people will definitely vote for him..
2)Silent voters do NOT tell their choice to the pollsters too(in most cases).That's why they are called silent,even in polling samples they tell not the truth.  Most of them do NOT want anyone else to know that they support Trump(unless that person is a fellow silent trump supporter)
3)I too would leave the field blank if I lived in the USA(right now)
4)That wikileaks stuff has really hurt Hillary among many millenials and Bernie fans,period! But I doubt it could win trump voters

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## T-72

everyone ready for the debate later ? 

so far it's 1 - 1, Trump did well right at the start of the first one but faded later, more points on balance to her even though studies suggested that it's the first half an hour that really grips people, after which they tune out, lose interest, 2nd was a KO for Trump, he had the zingers, he had substance, and came of looking like he knew his shit. 

He'll win this if he can hold his own, not goof up and stay on message. He does have a much saner approach to Russia and Syria etc, hope there is more debate and less mudslinging in this one.

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## Desert Fox

anon45 said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


Nobody takes this failure as a president (not to mention creep) seriously

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## Desert Fox

anon45 said:


> Don't have time right now, will be back later, but just want to say James o Keefe is a slimeball and any video he releases shouldn't be trusted.
> 
> Feel free to look him up on wiki.


If his videos "aren't to be trusted" then why do the people he exposes end up in big trouble?  

The truth is a bitter pill to swallow.

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## RabzonKhan




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## anon45

Desert Fox said:


> Nobody takes this failure as a president (not to mention creep) seriously


Maybe in the world you live in, but in reality he's taken very seriously, and Putin himself would call you a fool for not taking the President of the United States seriously.


Then again, you aren't in the position of responsibility that they are, so you can afford to not take him seriously.

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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 344791



Out comes the Jill Stein hate ever since she said she preferred Trump over Hillary (given she feels Hillary could very likely start WW3 with Russia).

Very predictable.

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## T-72

after Dubya and his party were rejected wholesale in '08, who would've thought a right winger "demagogue" like Trump would be the voice of reason and common sense foreign policy in 2018 

how things change.. 

or do they change at all ? 






is this whole Trump phenomenon just a ruse, this time on the right ? huge rallies, a populist message.. all very reminiscent of the Obama circus '08, it's all set up very nicely for Trump just as it was for Obama to go on for another 4 - 8 years and to have enough cover to keep blaming the previous admin.

going only by their rhetoric on foreign policy, and unless you're some kind of weirdo islamist sympathizer, Trump is making all the right noises.. don't support Syrian rebels/work with Russia/no more senseless wars in the middle east/kill ISIS etc.. and he's called out Turkey and Saudia for their role in the Syrian mess.

he also just said that if he wins, he will meet Putin before he takes office in January of next year (while Obama completes his lame duck term) to stop further escalation with the Russians.

it made Rachel Maddow mad:





Trump interview:







Nilgiri said:


> Out comes the Jill Stein hate ever since she said she preferred Trump over Hillary (given she feels Hillary could very likely start WW3 with Russia).
> 
> Very predictable.


I wonder if he's with 'correct the record'.

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## Śakra

Time for Bill Clinton to clean up this nonsense


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## boomslang

Irfan Baloch said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @boomslang she went in a republican rally. but came out without being violated ..had it been India or Pakistan then she would have got her wish and more




Bill Clinton would flavor his cigar with her snapper juice. And Killary would defend him.



Śakra said:


> Time for Bill Clinton to clean up this nonsense




You mean serial rapist Bill Clinton ?

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## Nilgiri

boomslang said:


> You mean serial rapist Bill Clinton ?



He's got his zipper down for a reason

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## RabzonKhan

Today is the third and final debate. Hillary is leading in the polls, Trump's ship is sinking, he’s the underdog and desperately needs to win this debate, not only to stop her momentum, but also to appeal to women, blacks, Hispanics, men with college degree and young voters, since with 40% voter base he cannot win the election.

All Hillary needs to do is remain calm and presidential, as she was in the previous two debates, explain her policies with depth and clarity, and don't feed the troll, let him bark, he is good in self-destruction.


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## boomslang

RabzonKhan said:


> Today is the third and final debate. Hillary is leading in the polls, Trump's ship is sinking, he’s the underdog and desperately needs to win this debate, not only to stop her momentum, but also to appeal to women, blacks, Hispanics, men with college degree and young voters, since with 40% voter base he cannot win the election.
> 
> All Hillary needs to do is remain calm and presidential, as she was in the previous two debates, explain her policies with depth and clarity, and don't feed the troll, let him bark, he is good in self-destruction.




'Dewey Defeats Truman' 2.

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## RabzonKhan

Watching the debate,







so far:


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## Akasa

Trump destroyed Hillary Clinton tonight.

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## Nilgiri

SinoSoldier said:


> Trump destroyed Hillary Clinton tonight.



Lets hope it was enough to get past the rigging, esp in swing states.

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## Akasa

Nilgiri said:


> Lets hope it was enough to get past the rigging, esp in swing states.



Americans aren't stupid; they would see through the smoke and mirrors in due time.

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## T-72

Trump came of looking like he had a real grip on issues. The "Putin's puppet" bit was clever but fell flat in the face of real issues like the war in Syria where he once again questioned her judgement to support these so called rebels when they are worse than Assad, so no regime change for Syria, very clear contrast to neocon hillary who wants to get rid of Assad, help the so called rebels, start a war with Russia (a no fly zone means war) and bring refugees from there into America. 

Trump is common sense all the way, Hillary is a crazy person.

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## Darmashkian

SinoSoldier said:


> Trump destroyed Hillary Clinton tonight.


Disagree..

I believe it was more or less a tie

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/788939737885048832
According to scott adams,isn't Hillary winning right now?
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151737656851/the-era-of-women

_If the latest groping/kissing allegations against Trump hold up – and I assume they will, based on quantity if not credibility – it won’t matter what Wikileaks says about Clinton. She will win easily._




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/788935817376915456Trump;s refusal to accept the election results line hurt him a lot.

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## jha

Was more of a tie. Trump could have used openings in better way. Chances of Trump winning is even less than 1% now.


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## Darmashkian

You are wrong here.. 

They may be less,but less than 1% is not possible for him now.


jha said:


> Was more of a tie. Trump could have used openings in better way. Chances of Trump winning is even less than 1% now.


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## A_Poster

*Hillary Clinton asks Bill Clinton to vote for Trump after hearing that Madonna will give a blowjob to Hillary voters




“She has already suffered so much due to the blowjobs he has received. Even during this campaign, Trump has brought about Bill’s sexual history but thankfully, she looks set to survive that attack and head to the White House. Now she doesn’t want her life as President to start on such a note therefore, she told Bill clearly that he must vote Trump. One vote isn’t going to jeopardize her chances and she can sleep easy after winning the race”, a Clinton aide told Faking News on the condition of confidentiality.

Click to expand...

*


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## maximuswarrior

Trump the fool has destroyed all chances of becoming the next chief destroyer of the USA. He knows it too. No one would claim that the elections are rigged before they even took place. The pu$$y scandal was Trump's last nail in the coffin. What an utter damn fool this man is. Who would even say such a thing? *Grabbing* a woman by her genitals LMAO Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. The elections are over. Hillary is going to win comfortably. The Republicans are left red-faced and utterly humiliated. This is how low American politics has got. This is the best they could come up with from the Republican side. The whole world has witnessed a clown fest.

The only people that are still going to vote for Trump are the predominantly "aggrieved" white racist red necks i.e. deplorables. That consists of crazy fundamentalist white evangelicals and the sort. Trump can never win the elections with only this crazy group by his side. It worked during the primaries because the Republican conservative voter base largely consists of such crazy people. The people who predicted that the general elections are going to be a different ballgame were right all along. The Republican Party has been hijacked by crazy red necks who have destroyed the conservative values. It existed once, but it began deteriorating during the Bush era. Today we are witnessing how much these values have eroded. I can safely say that they are nonexistent. A party hijacked by white KKK supremacists and religious fanatics.

The Republican party has been decimated as we know it. Trump has singlehandedly destroyed this party and it will never be the same. He has smashed some very old Republican demons such as the Bush dynasty and others. It was a long time coming and boy did they deserve it or what. That is one of the very few positives that Trump's candidacy has achieved.

You reap what you sow America. You have been harvesting hate and war for decades. Your economy has suffered enormously. I could go and on. This is the end result. Utter humiliation. Today you go around blaming everyone, but deep inside you know that only you are to be blamed. Blaming Mexicans, Muslims, disabled people, women or a dead American Pakistani Muslim soldier won't get you anywhere. Nature has a perfect way of keeping things in an equilibrium. This is mother equilibrium at full display.


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## Russell

This is Trump at the end of the debate....

Yeah, that's an angry man who knows he got beat 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/789090575249125376

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## Desert Fox

anon45 said:


> Maybe in the world you live in, but in reality he's taken very seriously, and Putin himself would call you a fool for not taking the President of the United States seriously.
> 
> 
> Then again, you aren't in the position of responsibility that they are, so you can afford to not take him seriously.


Oh, yeah im sure Putin takes Obama seriously like how he violated Obummer's "red line in the sand" in Syria 

Forget about Russia, even the Philipino President (American Ally) doesn't take Obummer seriously, :

*Rodrigo Duterte calls Barack Obama a 'son of a whore' – video *

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## maximuswarrior

Russell said:


> This is Trump at the end of the debate....
> 
> Yeah, that's an angry man who knows he got beat
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/789090575249125376



Speaks volume. Unbelievable. I would have loved Trump as the leader of the free world LMAO Too bad he destroyed the opportunity.


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## Russell

Another ad that completely destroys and ridicules Trump....

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## maximuswarrior

We haven't seen half of it yet. The fireworks will start after the elections. There is a reason why the media keeps asking whether Trump is going accept the election result. It remains to be seen whether Trump is going to accept the outcome of the elections. I think he will not and the deplorables are going to then come into play. We know what the deplorables are capable of. *It will be a purge night on a mass scale.*


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## cloud4000

Desert Fox said:


> Forget about Russia, even the Philipino President (American Ally) doesn't take Obummer seriously, :



America is thankful Duterte is only president of the Philippines and not a leader of a more important country.


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## maximuswarrior

cloud4000 said:


> America is thankful Duterte is only president of the Philippines and not a leader of a more important country.



LOL don't downplay the importance of the Philippines. This country has been a frontline "ally" in the SCS conflict. It is a huge blow.

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## cloud4000

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL don't downplay the importance of the Philippines. This country has been a frontline "ally" in the SCS conflict. It is a huge blow.



No problem. It's not like US wants those islands for itself, but were simply helping an ally to protect its rights in SCS. If the Philippines chooses to go a different path on them -- by making a deal with China -- so be it.

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## Desert Fox

*Third Presidential Debate Highlights*

*



*​


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## maximuswarrior

cloud4000 said:


> No problem. It's not like US wants those islands for itself, but were simply helping an ally to protect its rights in SCS. If the Philippines chooses to go a different path on them -- by making a deal with China -- so be it.



No, you are only helping yourself by sowing division. The Philippines is a smart country and they have figured out before it is too late.


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## Darmashkian

Desert Fox said:


> Oh, yeah im sure Putin takes Obama seriously like how he violated Obummer's "red line in the sand" in Syria
> 
> Forget about Russia, even the Philipino President (American Ally) doesn't take Obummer seriously, :
> 
> *Rodrigo Duterte calls Barack Obama a 'son of a whore' – video *
> 
> 
> View attachment 345007​


Putin has No respect for Obama. That is pretty obvious going by his actions. I bet that along with many Obama fans,he too will miss Obama a lot.
Add to that,I heard he is pretty racist & looks down on the Black Peoples(Regardless of nation).

@Desert Fox I have never understood this, you are a Pakistani Muslim. Then why do you support Trump?? 
He may/may not ban muslims from entering the USA(from some nations as he said), & he has said stuff like this http://www.thehindu.com/news/intern...on-unstable-pakistan-nukes/article8531485.ece . Why exactly do you support him??

& do you hold foreign citizenship?

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## maximuswarrior

Darmashkian said:


> Putin has No respect for Obama. That is pretty obvious going by his actions. I bet that along with many Obama fans,he too will miss Obama a lot.
> Add to that,I heard he is pretty racist & looks down on the Black Peoples(Regardless of nation).
> 
> @Desert Fox I have never understood this, you are a Pakistani Muslim. Then why do you support Trump??
> He may/may not ban muslims from entering the USA(from some nations as he said), & he has said stuff like this http://www.thehindu.com/news/intern...on-unstable-pakistan-nukes/article8531485.ece . Why exactly do you support him??
> 
> & do you hold foreign citizenship?



Valid questions.


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## jaunty

Overall in the three debates Trump got absolutely crushed (esp in the first and the third) and he was made to look like a childish clown without any substantive policy. Remember that at the beginning of the first debate there was barely any difference between him and Clinton in the polls and now after 3 debates in a month or so Clinton has a healthy lead of 7-8 points. The Clinton campaign designed a strategy to bait Trump to self destruct himself and it worked perfectly. He is done, it is now just a formality.

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## T-72




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## F-22Raptor

*Clinton Probably Finished Off Trump Last Night*

I’m not sure I need to tell you this, but Hillary Clinton is probably going to be the next president. It’s just a question of what “probably” means.

Clinton went into the final presidential debate on Wednesday with a lead ofabout 7 percentage points over Donald Trump. And according to the onlytwo scientific polls we’ve seen, voters thought that Clinton won the debate. Occasionally, the initial reaction to a debate can differ from the way it’s perceived days later. But in this case, the morning headlines, which focused overwhelmingly on Trump’s refusal to say whether he’ll accept the election results, are potentially worse for Trump than the debate itself. In YouGov’spoll of debate watchers, 68 percent of voters said they think the candidates should pledge to accept the results of the election.

There are less than three weeks left in the campaign, and there are no more guaranteed opportunities for Trump or Clinton to command a huge public audience, as they do at the conventions and the debates (although, they’ll get plenty of attention, of course). Millions of people have already voted. Trump has had a significant advertising deficit, and an even more significant deficit in terms of his turnout operation. He’ll probably spend a significant chunk of the remaining news cycles quarreling over his contention that the election is rigged, and with the numerous women who have accused him of sexual assault. He doesn’t have an obvious — or even a not-so-obvious — path to the presidency.

So we’re left to argue about the probability of an unforeseen event, or a significant polling error. It’s perhaps significant that almost no matter what news has occurred, and there’s been a lot of it — terrorist attacks, mass shootings, foreign crises, her email scandal, the Wikileaks dump, her Sept. 11 health scare — Clinton has almost always led Trump in the polls, although there have certainly been times when the election was close. What if her State Department emails are sitting on one of Julian Assange’s servers? That would be interesting, I suppose. But there are also October (or November) surprises that could work against Trump: more accusations from women, more damaging videotapes, further leaking of his tax records.

The other possibility is a massive polling failure. There aren’t really any direct precedents for a candidate coming back from this far down to win an American presidential election, although you can make a few loose analogies. Harry Truman’s comeback over Thomas Dewey in 1948 _almost_works as a comparison, but Truman wasn’t coming from as far behind as Trump is, and there was much less polling in 1948. Ronald Reagan had a significant late surge against Jimmy Carter in 1980, but he was ahead beforehand — and the surge came in large part because of a debate that occurred just one week before the election, whose impact was too late to be fully reflected in the polls. If Trump was going to have a Reaganesque surge, in other words, it probably would have started with a commanding performance in last night’s debate — and not another loss.

Brexit? Even that comparison doesn’t really work. The final polls showed a toss-up between the United Kingdom leaving the European Union or remaining in it, and “leave” eventually won by 4 points. If the polls were biased against Trump by that much in this election, he’d still lose, by a margin approximating the one by which Mitt Romney lost to President Obama four years ago. The primaries? They’re a reminder that one ought to be humble when making predictions. But the polls pegged Trump just fine— in fact, slightly overestimating his performance in many early states such as Iowa.

That’s not to say that a polling miss is impossible. Our polls-only model still gives Trump a 14 percent chance and our polls-plus forecast a 17 percent chance, although that’s before accounting for any impact of last night’s debate or some of the other circumstances I’ve described. Presidential elections are rare events, rare enough that we don’t really know what the tail ends of the probability distribution look like, and it’s prudent to make somewhat conservative assumptions under those conditions. It’s possible, also, that the polls are significantly underestimating Clinton rather than Trump — perhaps a combination of Trump’s lack of a ground game and hisvoters’ feeling despondent because he says the election is rigged will yield a double-digit loss.

If Clinton wins by a clear margin, it will help to resolve a longstanding debate among political scientists and historians, since it will suggest that campaigns and candidates do matter and that elections aren’t always determined by economic conditions, which would predict a much closer outcome than the one we’re likely to see. Furthermore, Clinton’s win will have come by rather conventional means. Her big surges in the polls came following the conventions and the debates. She got the largest convention bounce of any candidate since at least 2000, and she won the debates by a clearer margin than any previous candidate in the six elections in which there were three debates that CNN polled.

There was nothing flashy about Clinton’s performance at either the convention or the debates. She was just prepared, steady and tactically smart — such as goading Trump into feuds with the family of Khizr Khan, or Alicia Machado. Trump might seem like an easy opponent to take down, and he certainly hasn’t helped himself. But as Trump himself would probably point out, 16 Republicans failed to do so. We won’t know for sure for another 19 days, but Clinton may have finished him off last night.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-probably-finished-off-trump-last-night/


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## RabzonKhan

Results are out, Hillary won again and Trump has lost bigly. 







A picture is worth a thousand words!

*Hillary Clinton wins third presidential debate, according to CNN / ORC poll*

By Jennifer Agiesta, CNN Polling Director 10/20/2016

(CNN)Hillary *Clinton won the final presidential debate, topping Donald Trump by a 13-point margin according to a CNN/ORC poll *of debate watchers, giving Clinton a clean sweep across all three of this year's presidential debates.

But Wednesday's debate watchers were closely divided on which candidate they trusted more on the issues most important to them.

*Overall, 52% who watched tonight's matchup thought Clinton did the best job, to the 39% that thought Trump did. That's a tighter margin than in the first two debates. After the first debate, 62% of those who watched said Clinton won, 27% Trump, followed by a 57% Clinton to 34% Trump margin for the town hall debate held October 9. Link*




*CBS News Battleground Tracker poll: Who won final debate?
*
By Sarah Dutton, Jennifer De Pinto, Fred Backus and Anthony Salvanto

More Democrats than Republicans watched the third debate, and people who watched say Hillary Clinton won, while voters in the battleground states say the losing candidate should accept the results of the election.

*By a double-digit margin, voters in 13 states identified as battlegrounds by CBS News say Hillary Clinton won the final presidential debate of the 2016 campaign. Forty-nine percent say Clinton won, while 39 percent think Trump was the winner. Twelve percent call it a tie. Link*

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## T-72

RabzonKhan said:


> Results are out, Hillary won again and Trump has lost bigly.
> 
> (CNN)Hillary *Clinton won the final presidential debate*...
> 
> 
> *CBS News say Hillary Clinton won... *



and the the Breitbart and Drudge polls say Trump won 

these mean little, just spin from the various pro and anti camps, 3 weeks from now are the only polls that count.  

all the major US news channels have already called it for her, but are you 100% confident ?


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## cloud4000

F-22Raptor said:


> Clinton went into the final presidential debate on Wednesday with a lead ofabout 7 percentage points over Donald Trump. And according to the onlytwo scientific polls we’ve seen, voters thought that Clinton won the debate. Occasionally, the initial reaction to a debate can differ from the way it’s perceived days later. But in this case, the morning headlines, which focused overwhelmingly on Trump’s refusal to say whether he’ll accept the election results, are potentially worse for Trump than the debate itself. In YouGov’spoll of debate watchers, 68 percent of voters said they think the candidates should pledge to accept the results of the election.



If the the margin of victory is large enough for Clinton, Trump's threats not recognize the results will be meaningless. Still, making such an idiotic statement has become a Trump hallmark.

UPDATE:

Trump just announced he will now accept election result.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/20/polit...y-accept-election-results-if-i-win/index.html

I think his handlers impressed on him the idiocy of his comments made the night before.

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## jaunty

cloud4000 said:


> Trump just announced he will now accept election result.



"only if he wins"

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## Russell

T-72 said:


> and the the Breitbart and Drudge polls say Trump won
> 
> these mean little, just spin from the various pro and anti camps, 3 weeks from now are the only polls that count.
> 
> all the major US news channels have already called it for her, but are you 100% confident ?


I _*almost* _feel sorry for you.

All these polls were fine for Trump when they suited his purpose..but, not anymore 

Here is Captain Retard this morning - 



> Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump has said he will accept the results of the US election "if I win".
> 
> "I would accept a clear election result but I would also reserve the right to file a legal challenge in the case of a questionable result," Mr Trump said.



See how much he has been speaking of defeat - he knows the game is up, and is now working on the post election narrative

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## jaunty

It is quite funny actually. Any decent republican candidate would have beaten Hillary Clinton other than this buffoon, such was the negativity around Clinton. I have no doubt that someone like Romney would have comfortably won the presidency. But I guess far right republicans deserved Trump and hence at least 4 more years of a democratic president.

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## cloud4000

jaunty said:


> It is quite funny actually. Any decent republican candidate would have beaten Hillary Clinton other than this buffoon, such was the negativity around Clinton. I have no doubt that someone like Romney would have comfortably won the presidency. But I guess far right republicans deserved Trump and hence at least 4 more years of a democratic president.



Spot on. Even Ted Cruz, unlikeable as he is, had a better chance of beating Clinton than Trump. But GOP is keen on pursuing white conservative voters even though demographics clearly show their numbers are dwindling. Need to broaden the base to include non-white voters.

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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> See, I told you guys. Now we know how Trump was winning all the so-called online polls.
> 
> After Hillary bested him, some of his desperate supporters especially the users of Reddit and 4chan (mostly Alt-right racists) banded together to rig the online polls and I’m not surprised I already knew it, they were totally bogus.
> 
> But what surprised me was that Trump himself was bragging about those useless polls, what embarrassment this man is.
> 
> Listen to his goofy and embarrassing interview:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just freaking hilarious:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/780796008854876160
> 
> *4chan and Reddit bombarded debate polls to declare Trump the winner*
> 
> You may be getting trolled right now without even knowing it.
> Donald Trump supporters artificially manipulated the results of online polls to create a false narrative that the Republican nominee won the first presidential debate on Monday night.
> 
> The efforts originated from users of the pro-Trump Reddit community r/The_Donald and 4chan messaged boards, which bombarded around 70 polls, including those launched by _Time,_ _Fortune_, and CNBC.
> 
> There’s an unspoken rule of the internet: Never trust online polls. They’re too easily corruptible.
> 
> 4chan, the notorious message board, has a long history of botting online competitions. In 2009, users flooded the _Time _100 poll to ensure that the site’s founder, Christopher “moot” Poole, made the cut. In 2012, the pranksters employed JavaScript to vote for North Korean leader Kim Jong-un in _Time_’s annual Person of the Year poll and followed suit the next year with Miley Cyrus and Edward Snowden. 4chan also ensured a school for the deaf won a Taylor Swift concert. Likewise, a Twitter prankster helped send Pitbull to Kodiak, Alaska, as part of an online challenge by Walmart in 2012.
> 
> These types of efforts aren’t always successful, but given the tight turn of online polls during debates, they’re highly susceptible to such pranks.
> 
> In this latest incarnation, multiple Reddit users enlisted the Trump-supporting masses on r/The_Donald, which has over 200,000 subscribers, by posting dozens of online polls that are vulnerable to vote brigading, bots, and other forms of manipulation that make these non-scientific surveys notoriously unreliable. *Read more*


Online polls are garbage, you can vote as many times as you want, there are hundreds of anonymous web browsing websites that one can use for free.

Please also read the above post and see what Trump supporters have been doing, absolutely shameful, just shows their desperation.

@T-72

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## Russell

Trump has been behind in every scientific poll and since the 1st debate the deficit has simply grown and grown. This was always going to be the case...he is no longer simply speaking to the converted.

He has to reach out to those not in his base and he is no longer just speaking to acolytes - his flaws are coming up...dare I say it...Trumps.

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## RabzonKhan

jaunty said:


> It is quite funny actually. Any decent republican candidate would have beaten Hillary Clinton other than this buffoon, such was the negativity around Clinton. I have no doubt that someone like Romney would have comfortably won the presidency. But I guess far right republicans deserved Trump and hence at least 4 more years of a democratic president.


To be fair to the Republican party, he was never their choice, but unfortunately, one after the other establishment candidate went down and they ended up with him.


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## Russell

RabzonKhan said:


> To be fair to the Republican party, he was never their choice, but unfortunately, one after the other establishment candidate went down and they ended up with him.


No...No need to be fair to the republican party.

They helped create Trump.

Right from the moment Obama had his inauguration - they've fed the bullshit.

These are the facts - 

$2 gas 
5% unemployment
more insured
rising mid-class income
more High School grads
Bin Laden dead

now compare that with what Dubya left Obama...Yet, you listen to Republicans and Faux News - the country is falling apart. So, no they deserve Trump and worse.

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## T-72

Russell said:


> I _*almost* _feel sorry for you.
> 
> All these polls were fine for Trump when they suited his purpose..but, not anymore


no need to feel sorry for me, I'm watching this whole thing from a distance, all I care about is the foreign policy implications of either of them being elected potus, and so far I feel Trump is the common sense guy with his stated approach to Syria and the middle east, which is the big flashpoint right now.

God help us if Hillary is elected, for she will guaranteed make a very bad situation even worse. Look at her terrible record in the middle east, listen to what she's saying she'll do (no fly zone, war with Russia, more regime change..)



Russell said:


> See how much he has been speaking of defeat - he knows the game is up, and is now working on the post election narrative







the democrats took it all the way to the supreme court in 2000

and the media *is *rigging it and in the tank for clinton (wiki) 

I think this is a giant ongoing media psyop to demoralize Trump supporters to try and dampen voter turnout, 20 days is a long time.


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## maximuswarrior

cloud4000 said:


> Spot on. Even Ted Cruz, unlikeable as he is, had a better chance of beating Clinton than Trump. But GOP is keen on pursuing white conservative voters even though demographics clearly show their numbers are dwindling. Need to broaden the base to include non-white voters.



LOL not in a million years would Ted have beaten Hillary. Character wise I rate Trump higher than Ted Cruz and that is not a joke.



T-72 said:


> and the the Breitbart and Drudge polls say Trump won
> 
> these mean little, just spin from the various pro and anti camps, 3 weeks from now are the only polls that count.
> 
> all the major US news channels have already called it for her, but are you 100% confident ?



Even you have softened up. LOL reality is hitting home slowly, but surely.

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## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> Even you have softened up. LOL reality is hitting home slowly, but surely.


no way, 100% in for Trump till it's over 











and its not over yet


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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> no way, 100% in for Trump till it's over
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and its not over yet



Keep up the hope.


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## Rashid Mahmood

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154056983616636

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## Desert Fox

Darmashkian said:


> Putin has No respect for Obama. That is pretty obvious going by his actions. I bet that along with many Obama fans,he too will miss Obama a lot.
> Add to that,I heard he is pretty racist & looks down on the Black Peoples(Regardless of nation).
> 
> @Desert Fox I have never understood this, you are a Pakistani Muslim. Then why do you support Trump??
> He may/may not ban muslims from entering the USA(from some nations as he said), & he has said stuff like this http://www.thehindu.com/news/intern...on-unstable-pakistan-nukes/article8531485.ece . Why exactly do you support him??
> 
> & do you hold foreign citizenship?


Nobody has respect for Obummer.

Regarding my support for Trump: at this point anyone with a brain would support Trump because that *B!tch Hillary is planning on a war with Russia to protect ISIS*. The world has never come so close to a potential nuclear war between the United States and Russia, not even during the Cold War, because unlike the Cold War the likelihood of a confrontation is much greater today considering the volatile nature of the conflicts involved (Syria, Ukraine). *This crazy B!tch wants to impose a no-fly-zone on the Russians in Syria in order to protect her "moderate" terrorists.*

We've already seen what her and Obama have done to Libya with their no-fly-zone. That country is infested with Al-Qaeda and ISIS. The world could have saved Libya, but it didn't and most people were fooled into believing that the "Libyan rebels" (foreign Jihadists) were fighting for "Democracy", just as we are told today by Hillary and Obama that the "Syrian rebels" are also fighting for "Democracy". But today people have that chance to prevent another Libya like catastrophe from happening and everyone must do their part to ensure this crazy B!tch Hillary doesn't get into power.























@C130 @Nilgiri @T-72 @LA se Karachi @vostok @Falcon29 @senheiser​

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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> t this point anyone with a brain would support Trump because that *B!tch Hillary is planning on a war with Russia to protect ISIS*. The world has never come so close to a potential nuclear war between the United States and Russia, not even during the Cold War, because unlike the Cold War the likelihood of a confrontation is much greater today considering the volatile nature of the conflicts involved (Syria, Ukraine). *This crazy B!tch wants to impose a no-fly-zone on the Russians in Syria in order to protect her "moderate" terrorists.*
> 
> We've already seen what her and Obama have done to Libya with their no-fly-zone. That country is infested with Al-Qaeda and ISIS. The world could have saved Libya, but it didn't and most people were fooled into believing that the "Libyan rebels" (foreign Jihadists) were fighting for "Democracy", just as we are told today by Hillary and Obama that the "Syrian rebels" are also fighting for "Democracy". But today people have that chance to prevent another Libya like catastrophe from happening and everyone must do their part to ensure this crazy B!tch Hillary doesn't get into power.

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## ptldM3

RabzonKhan said:


> Results are out, Hillary won again and Trump has lost bigly.
> 
> 
> View attachment 345058
> 
> A picture is worth a thousand words!
> 
> *Hillary Clinton wins third presidential debate, according to CNN / ORC poll*
> 
> By Jennifer Agiesta, CNN Polling Director 10/20/2016
> 
> (CNN)Hillary *Clinton won the final presidential debate, topping Donald Trump by a 13-point margin according to a CNN/ORC poll *of debate watchers, giving Clinton a clean sweep across all three of this year's presidential debates.
> 
> But Wednesday's debate watchers were closely divided on which candidate they trusted more on the issues most important to them.
> 
> *Overall, 52% who watched tonight's matchup thought Clinton did the best job, to the 39% that thought Trump did. That's a tighter margin than in the first two debates. After the first debate, 62% of those who watched said Clinton won, 27% Trump, followed by a 57% Clinton to 34% Trump margin for the town hall debate held October 9. Link*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CBS News Battleground Tracker poll: Who won final debate?
> *
> By Sarah Dutton, Jennifer De Pinto, Fred Backus and Anthony Salvanto
> 
> More Democrats than Republicans watched the third debate, and people who watched say Hillary Clinton won, while voters in the battleground states say the losing candidate should accept the results of the election.
> 
> *By a double-digit margin, voters in 13 states identified as battlegrounds by CBS News say Hillary Clinton won the final presidential debate of the 2016 campaign. Forty-nine percent say Clinton won, while 39 percent think Trump was the winner. Twelve percent call it a tie. Link*




Lol, CNN is a joke, majority of polls put trump as the winner. CNN is trash, anyone that says anything bad about Clinton is cut off the air.

The Only thing that old hag can do is avoid answering difficult questions, lie, change the subject to "Russia" and have a shit eating grin on her face.

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## Desert Fox

T-72 said:


> View attachment 345282


Thanks man.





ptldM3 said:


> Lol, CNN is a joke, majority of polls put trump as the winner. CNN is trash, anyone that says anything bad about Clinton is cut off the air.
> 
> The Only thing that old hag can do is avoid answering difficult questions, lie, change the subject to "Russia" and have a shit eating grin on her face.



Funny, i recall @RabzonKhan claiming polls were rigged when Trump was in the lead but now he uses the same polls.

Also, *CNN* (*C*linton *N*ews *N*etwork) is not a credible source since it was revealed by Wikileaks that they were working with the DNC to undermine Bernie Sanders, and now they are doing the same with Trump.

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## Darmashkian

Desert Fox said:


> Thanks man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, i recall @RabzonKhan claiming polls were rigged when Trump was in the lead but now he uses the same polls.
> 
> Also, *CNN* (*C*linton *N*ews *N*etwork) is not a credible source since it was revealed by Wikileaks that they were working with the DNC to undermine Bernie Sanders, and now they are doing the same with Trump.





ptldM3 said:


> Lol, CNN is a joke, majority of polls put trump as the winner. CNN is trash, anyone that says anything bad about Clinton is cut off the air.
> 
> The Only thing that old hag can do is avoid answering difficult questions, lie, change the subject to "Russia" and have a shit eating grin on her face.


CNN(Clinton News Network)
ABC(Always Beside Clinton)
NBC(Nothing But Clinton)
MSNBC(Making Sure Nothing But Clinton)

All of them are biased in favor of the Democrats & Hilliary!! THat is why I pay no attention to their polls,they over-sample the Democrats way too much in them!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hillary will blame the 2 Rs- Russia & Republicans for all the problems & incompetence of her administration way more than Obama blamed Bush for the problems he created!!

It's not in her to take responsibility for her misdeeds. She'll blame even Bill if required,but not herself.


T-72 said:


> View attachment 345282





Desert Fox said:


> Nobody has respect for Obummer.
> 
> Regarding my support for Trump: at this point anyone with a brain would support Trump because that *B!tch Hillary is planning on a war with Russia to protect ISIS*. The world has never come so close to a potential nuclear war between the United States and Russia, not even during the Cold War, because unlike the Cold War the likelihood of a confrontation is much greater today considering the volatile nature of the conflicts involved (Syria, Ukraine). *This crazy B!tch wants to impose a no-fly-zone on the Russians in Syria in order to protect her "moderate" terrorists.*
> 
> We've already seen what her and Obama have done to Libya with their no-fly-zone. That country is infested with Al-Qaeda and ISIS. The world could have saved Libya, but it didn't and most people were fooled into believing that the "Libyan rebels" (foreign Jihadists) were fighting for "Democracy", just as we are told today by Hillary and Obama that the "Syrian rebels" are also fighting for "Democracy". But today people have that chance to prevent another Libya like catastrophe from happening and everyone must do their part to ensure this crazy B!tch Hillary doesn't get into power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 345267
> 
> 
> View attachment 345266
> 
> 
> View attachment 345268
> 
> 
> @C130 @Nilgiri @T-72 @LA se Karachi @vostok @Falcon29 @senheiser​


I am not fond of Trump in any way & despise him.. but I absolutely hate the Clintons(Hillary should be in JAIL!!) & the Shameless MSM & the Liberal Establishment of the USA!(I hate them in India too,these guys suck around the globe)

The only reason a part of me hopes that Trump wins is to give a tight slap to these people!! I absolutely distrust them,they lie,they start wars & conflicts in other nations(Iraq,Libya,Syria),they look down on everybody who isn't like them or doesn't suck up to them!

These people have enjoyed far too long, they could stop Bernie Sanders by rigging the Primaries. But,even if they stop Trump; they can't stop the anti-establishment movement he has created!

Sooner or later they will have to fall!

[That was a good pic of the Clinton foundation you posted there  I think if Hillary wins & India ever needs something from the USA,we just have to transfer a few million dollars to Bill Clinton after inviting him to give a few inspirational talks here  ]

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## T-72

Anyone find any evidence yet of real organic and grassroots support for crooked hillary ? nothing on twitter or social media either. Sure feels like apart from the establishment elites, the corporatists, the neocons etc, and their controlled mainstream media pundits, she has very little to no support in the real world.

A lot of people hate Donald, sure, but nobody likes crooked hillary, she is zero in the likes column, I think she'll lose, big league even.

He shows up, 50k will crowd an arena to hear him speak, hillary cant fill high school gymnasium, less than 200 showed up for one of her rallies lol. This has to mean something, no way it can not mean anything.

All the obituaries and post loss analyses on cnn and msnbc etc makes me more convinced that these people are now throwing everything at him in one last blitzkrieg smear and lie campaign.

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## T-72

a good honest critique of the Clinton camp's reckless fear-mongering over Russia even if they are anti Trump themselves.

these guys are good, even if Cenk and the main show has become a joke.

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## Major d1

Democracy made trup tyeps of people who have no basic knowledge about politics. And this is the basis of Hippocratic democracy. .


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## T-72

Major d1 said:


> Democracy made trup tyeps of people who have no basic knowledge about politics. And this is the basis of Hippocratic democracy. .


excellent analysis.

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## RabzonKhan

Absolutely, Hillary is "tough and talented woman" and that's why I support her! 


*Cardinal Dolan: In private, Trump praised Clinton as ‘tough’ and ‘talented’*

By NOLAN D. MCCASKILL 10/21/16

Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton did more than trade barbs Thursday.

The Republican who has threatened to jail his political opponent and the Democrat who has maintained that her rival is temperamentally unfit for office had surprisingly nice things to say offstage at the Alfred E. Smith Memorial Foundation Dinner, according to its host.


While Trump and Clinton both took swipes at each other in their remarks at the annual roast and Catholic fundraiser, Cardinal Timothy Dolan said the candidates had “nice things” to say offstage.

“I was very moved by the obvious attempt on behalf of both Secretary Clinton and Mr. Trump to kind of be courteous, to get along, to say nice things privately to one another,” Dolan said on NBC’s “Today.” “I was very moved by that. That was pleasant.”

Dolan, who sat between Trump and Clinton at the dais, acknowledged the two were, like President Barack Obama and Mitt Romney in 2012, “kind of awkward together.”

“But the purpose of the evening is to break some of that ice, and thanks be to God, it works,” he said. “The Al Smith Dinner by its nature literally tries to — I’m sitting there between the two — and literally,I’m supposed to be kind of a bridge to bring these two people together. And I try my best, and there were some very touching moments.”

Dolan said the three of them prayed together. “And after the little prayer, Mr. Trump turned to Secretary Clinton and said, ‘You know, you are one tough and talented woman,’” he recalled. “And he said, ‘This has been a good experience in this whole campaign, as tough as it’s been,’ and she said to him, ‘And Donald, whatever happens, we need to work together afterwards.’ Now I thought: This is the evening at its best.” *Link*



Desert Fox said:


> Funny, i recall @RabzonKhan claiming polls were rigged when Trump was in the lead but now he uses the same polls.


That's not correct, I have criticized online polling, which I believe is totally garbage, but I have no problems with polls conducted by professional polling companies.

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## CorporateAffairs

Hillary created ISIS.

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## RabzonKhan

CorporateAffairs said:


> Hillary created ISIS.


Absolutely rubbish, Trumps says lot of BS, don't believe him.

*


The Third 2016 Presidential Debate, In Cartoons*

Politico's Matt Wuerker chooses his favorite cartoons from the presidential debate.

By POLITICO MAGAZINE 10/21/16


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## T-72

RabzonKhan said:


> The Republican who has threatened to jail his political opponent and the Democrat who has maintained that her rival is temperamentally unfit for office had surprisingly nice things to say offstage at the Alfred E. Smith Memorial Foundation Dinner, according to its host.


that's because he's a gentleman 

this was actually pretty good:

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## RabzonKhan

*The Third 2016 Presidential Debate, In Cartoons*

Politico's Matt Wuerker chooses his favorite cartoons from the presidential debate.

By POLITICO MAGAZINE 10/21/16

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## RabzonKhan

*Poll: Clinton Won Final Debate; 53% of Republicans Would Accept Election Results*

by HANNAH HARTIG, JOHN LAPINSKI and STEPHANIE PSYLLOS OCT 21 2016

Hillary Clinton won the third and final debate of the 2016 Presidential Election cycle by a 9-point margin over Donald Trump, according to likely voters who watched or followed coverage of Wednesday's face-off. A 46 percent plurality said Clinton won the debate, while 37 percent said Trump won. Another 17 percent said that neither candidate won the debate. Clinton's final victory over the Republican nominee marks a decisive sweep of all three debates.

These results are according to the NBC News|SurveyMonkey Third Debate Reaction Poll conducted on Thursday, October 20.







The debate was most notable for Trump's refusal to say he would accept the outcome of the election—causing a backlash among GOP leaders including Sen. Lindsey Graham and Rep. Carlos Curbelo. Arizona Sen. John McCain said that while he didn't like the outcome of the 2008 election, he had a duty to concede, and did so without reluctance: "That's not just the Republican way or the Democratic way. It's the American way." *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

Hillary Clinton’s campaign has released an exceptionally effective video in which Khizr Khan tells the story of his son, Captain Humayun Khan, who was killed in Iraq while stopping a suicide bomber in 2004.

“He saw a suicide bomber approaching his camp,” Khizr Khan explains as he walks in living room toward a photo of the fallen soldier. “My son moved forward to stop the bomber. When the bomb exploded he saved everyone in his unit. Only one American soldier died. My son was Captain Humayun Khan. He was 27 years old and he was a Muslim American.” Khizr Khan’s voice starts to break as he says, “I want to ask Mr. Trump, would my son have a place in your America?”










*@Taygibay @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Rashid Mahmood @American Pakistani @iPhone @war&peace *

*@F-22Raptor @gambit @TruthSeeker @Arsalan @anon45 @Anubis @LA se Karachi *

*@Mugwop @saadee *

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## RabzonKhan

Epic, Hillary slams Trump on his rigged (un-American) election conspiracies. 

Third and final debate:





*WALLACE: (moderator)* But, sir, there is a tradition in this country -- in fact, one of the prides of this country -- is the peaceful transition of power and that no matter how hard-fought a campaign is, that at the end of the campaign that the loser concedes to the winner. Not saying that you're necessarily going to be the loser or the winner, but that the loser concedes to the winner and that the country comes together in part for the good of the country. Are you saying you're not prepared now to commit to that principle?

*TRUMP: *What I'm saying is that I will tell you at the time. I'll keep you in suspense. OK?

*CLINTON: *Well, Chris, let me respond to that, because *that's horrifying.* You know, every time Donald thinks things are not going in his direction, he claims whatever it is, is rigged against him.

*The FBI conducted a year-long investigation into my e-mails. They concluded there was no case; he said the FBI was rigged. He lost the Iowa caucus. He lost the Wisconsin primary. He said the Republican primary was rigged against him. Then Trump University gets sued for fraud and racketeering; he claims the court system and the federal judge is rigged against him. There was even a time when he didn't get an Emmy for his TV program three years in a row and he started tweeting that the Emmys were rigged against him.*

*TRUMP: *Should have gotten it.

(LAUGHTER)

*CLINTON:* *This is -- this is a mindset. This is how Donald thinks. *And it's funny, but it's also really troubling.

*WALLACE:* OK.

*CLINTON:* *So that is not the way our democracy works. We've been around for 240 years. We've had free and fair elections. We've accepted the outcomes when we may not have liked them.* And that is what must be expected of anyone standing on a debate stage during a general election. You know, President Obama said the other day when you're whining before the game is even finished...

(APPLAUSE)

*WALLACE:* Hold on. Hold on, folks. Hold on, folks.

*CLINTON:* ... *it just shows you're not up to doing the job. And let's -- you know, let's be clear about what he is saying and what that means. He is denigrating -- he's talking down our democracy. And I, for one, am appalled that somebody who is the nominee of one of our two major parties would take that kind of position.*


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## gambit

RabzonKhan said:


> Epic, Hillary slams Trump on his rigged (un-American) election conspiracies.


Am no Chump supporter, but I have to side with him in this one.

I had discussion with a friend and he pointed out an interesting idea: There are two ways of 'rigging' and election.

The first is the 'hard rig'. This is where you have direct access to the ballot processing system, from the paper to the pencils to the box and all the way to the people tallying the votes.

The second is the 'soft rig'. If you cannot access the balloting system, then your next best method is to change people's minds, in other words, access of information. If you are a journalist, you slant your reporting and/or commentaries. Remember the infamous 'journolist' scandal ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JournoList

When the Democratic National Committee worked to remove Bernie Sanders from contention, that was a 'hard rig'. If the President actively campaigns for you, that would be a 'soft rig', and in this case, there is nothing wrong with that.

The American Left and media finally admitted that there is a leftist bent among themselves. The American academia finally had to admit to the same. This is what the Bump is complaining about.

When you vote, there is no challenge to your vote. On the other hand, when you debate, there are challenges between contenders and observers are allowed to make up their minds. There is no challenge in a 'hard rig'. What needed to be done -- will be done in secrecy. In a 'soft rig', challenges are minimized. The challengers' opinions are collectively mocked or even dismissed by those who controls that access to information. Then if sufficient voters are convinced by way of selective information, the rig is successful.

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Epic, Hillary slams Trump on his rigged (un-American) election conspiracies.


Meanwhile Hillary keeps larping on about "it's the Russians, it's the Russians" *without providing any proof* but yet Trump is the conspiracy theorist? 






Darmashkian said:


> CNN(Clinton News Network)
> ABC(Always Beside Clinton)
> NBC(Nothing But Clinton)
> MSNBC(Making Sure Nothing But Clinton)
> 
> All of them are biased in favor of the Democrats & Hilliary!! THat is why I pay no attention to their polls,they over-sample the Democrats way too much in them!
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hillary will blame the 2 Rs- Russia & Republicans for all the problems & incompetence of her administration way more than Obama blamed Bush for the problems he created!!
> 
> It's not in her to take responsibility for her misdeeds. She'll blame even Bill if required,but not herself.
> 
> 
> I am not fond of Trump in any way & despise him.. but I absolutely hate the Clintons(Hillary should be in JAIL!!) & the Shameless MSM & the Liberal Establishment of the USA!(I hate them in India too,these guys suck around the globe)
> 
> The only reason a part of me hopes that Trump wins is to give a tight slap to these people!! I absolutely distrust them,they lie,they start wars & conflicts in other nations(Iraq,Libya,Syria),they look down on everybody who isn't like them or doesn't suck up to them!
> 
> These people have enjoyed far too long, they could stop Bernie Sanders by rigging the Primaries. But,even if they stop Trump; they can't stop the anti-establishment movement he has created!
> 
> Sooner or later they will have to fall!
> 
> [That was a good pic of the Clinton foundation you posted there  I think if Hillary wins & India ever needs something from the USA,we just have to transfer a few million dollars to Bill Clinton after inviting him to give a few inspirational talks here  ]


They were able to cheat Bernie because Bernie is the type of guy who will allow others to push him around. Remember how those BLM girls hijacked his podium and called his supporters racist  and he just walked to the back of the stage. Bernie had a dedicated, passionate supporter base similar to Trumps and he could have made a lot of noise about the backdoor deals the DNC was doing to undermine him yet he walked away without a fight and let his supporters down by endorsing the wicked witch. So many Bernie supporters have switched over to the Trump camp because of Bernie's betrayal.

Trump, on the other hand, is an Alpha male and he has the confidence of his supporters who show up in the tens of thousands at his rallies despite the dirt the pro-Clinton MSMedia throws at him which is why Trump will win this election, and he's going to give the corrupt establishment and elites a bloody drubbing they'll never forget which is why they are doing everything in their power to bring him down. *The only way Trump can lose is if the elections are rigged.*

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## T-72



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## Desert Fox

*5 Times Democrats Claimed U.S. Elections Are ‘Rigged’*​


by Joel B. Pollak20 Oct 2016

Democrats are aghast that Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump would declare our election system “rigged,” and that he declined to state in the third presidential debate whether he would accept the result if he loses in November.

Trump is both wrong, and right, about the “rigged” nature of the system: in a fair system, Hillary Clinton would certainly not be her party’s candidate.

Regardless, Democrats — including Hillary Clinton — seem to have forgotten their own history of claiming elections are “rigged.”

*1. 2000: Al Gore and the Florida recount.* Yes, Gore eventually accepted the result — but only after withdrawing his concession, trying to have the vote recounted only in Democrat-heavy Florida counties, and suing to stop ballots from being recounted. Even after a consortium of media outlets concluded that George W. Bush had indeed won more votes in Florida, Democrats continued to claim the election had been “stolen” by the Supreme Court and Bush was an illegitimate president.

*2. 2004: John Kerry and “rigged” machines.* While Kerry conceded the election, he and his running mate continued to believe afterwards that the election had been stolen from them, possibly by voting machines. Elizabeth Edwards said in 2007 that she had been “very disappointed” in Kerry’s decision to concede the election. And last year the _New Yorker_ reported that Kerry believed “proxies for Bush had rigged many voting machines” in Ohio, and that he may in fact have won the election.

*3. 2008: John Podesta and Obama’s voter fraud.* As the _Wall Street Journal_ pointed out recently, *President Barack Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder have suggested that voter ID laws are a way of rigging elections against black people.* * And while they downplay fears of voter fraud, Hillary Clinton campaign chair John Podesta reported internally (via Wikileaks) in 2015 that Clinton operatives believed that “the Obama forces flooded the caucuses with ineligible voters” to win the primary.*

4. *2014: Congress and a “rigged” district system.* Thanks to the Tea Party wave election in 2010 in response to Obamacare, Republicans were left in charge of many state legislatures as they redrew congressional district boundaries. Except in a few states — such as Illinois, where Democrats drew several Republicans out of their seats — that meant Republicans held the advantage in the House. As a result, Democrats complained bitterly that congressional elections were “rigged” against them.

*5. 2016: Bernie Sanders and a “rigged” primary.* Sanders uses the word “rigged” often to describe the economic system. But in 2016, the Democratic Party primary was rigged against him in a political sense — both openly, in the party’s anti-democratic super delegate system, and secretly, through collusion between party officials and the Clinton campaign. Sanders supporters protested at the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia against what they called a “rigged” election.

Hillary Clinton herself has made at least one similar claim. National Review — which officially opposed Trump earlier this year — points out that Clinton told a private fundraiser in 2002 that George W. Bush had been “selected,” not “elected.”

@Nilgiri @T-72 @RabzonKhan @C130

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## T-72



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## RabzonKhan




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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> *5 Times Democrats Claimed U.S. Elections Are ‘Rigged’*​
> 
> 
> by Joel B. Pollak20 Oct 2016
> 
> Democrats are aghast that Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump would declare our election system “rigged,” and that he declined to state in the third presidential debate whether he would accept the result if he loses in November.
> 
> Trump is both wrong, and right, about the “rigged” nature of the system: in a fair system, Hillary Clinton would certainly not be her party’s candidate.
> 
> Regardless, Democrats — including Hillary Clinton — seem to have forgotten their own history of claiming elections are “rigged.”
> 
> *1. 2000: Al Gore and the Florida recount.* Yes, Gore eventually accepted the result — but only after withdrawing his concession, trying to have the vote recounted only in Democrat-heavy Florida counties, and suing to stop ballots from being recounted. Even after a consortium of media outlets concluded that George W. Bush had indeed won more votes in Florida, Democrats continued to claim the election had been “stolen” by the Supreme Court and Bush was an illegitimate president.
> 
> *2. 2004: John Kerry and “rigged” machines.* While Kerry conceded the election, he and his running mate continued to believe afterwards that the election had been stolen from them, possibly by voting machines. Elizabeth Edwards said in 2007 that she had been “very disappointed” in Kerry’s decision to concede the election. And last year the _New Yorker_ reported that Kerry believed “proxies for Bush had rigged many voting machines” in Ohio, and that he may in fact have won the election.
> 
> *3. 2008: John Podesta and Obama’s voter fraud.* As the _Wall Street Journal_ pointed out recently, *President Barack Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder have suggested that voter ID laws are a way of rigging elections against black people.* * And while they downplay fears of voter fraud, Hillary Clinton campaign chair John Podesta reported internally (via Wikileaks) in 2015 that Clinton operatives believed that “the Obama forces flooded the caucuses with ineligible voters” to win the primary.*
> 
> 4. *2014: Congress and a “rigged” district system.* Thanks to the Tea Party wave election in 2010 in response to Obamacare, Republicans were left in charge of many state legislatures as they redrew congressional district boundaries. Except in a few states — such as Illinois, where Democrats drew several Republicans out of their seats — that meant Republicans held the advantage in the House. As a result, Democrats complained bitterly that congressional elections were “rigged” against them.
> 
> *5. 2016: Bernie Sanders and a “rigged” primary.* Sanders uses the word “rigged” often to describe the economic system. But in 2016, the Democratic Party primary was rigged against him in a political sense — both openly, in the party’s anti-democratic super delegate system, and secretly, through collusion between party officials and the Clinton campaign. Sanders supporters protested at the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia against what they called a “rigged” election.
> 
> Hillary Clinton herself has made at least one similar claim. National Review — which officially opposed Trump earlier this year — points out that Clinton told a private fundraiser in 2002 that George W. Bush had been “selected,” not “elected.”
> 
> @Nilgiri @T-72 @RabzonKhan @C130



Classic hypocrisy.

Whats worse is that for all this time mainstream republicans have been playing along given they are politicians too.

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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 344791




Yes, elect a Clinton instead. Because that worked out so well for the rich and the banks as well:







Nilgiri said:


> Remember according to the MSM and Obama admin, someone losing one ok paying job (because of obamacare premiums forcing downsizing) and forced to work 2 - 3 crap temp jobs (and also forced to have worse health plan) is a net JOB GROWTH




The percentage of uninsured Americans has dropped dramatically since the passage of the ACA, and is now at an all-time low:

_"The percentage of Americans that do not have health insurance now sits at 8.6%, the lowest on record, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)."_






_ http://www.businessinsider.com/americans-without-health-insurance-all-time-low-uninsured-rate-2016-9
_

Very few companies have been forced to "downsize" as a result of Obamacare. This is more a (false) right-wing talking point than reality. Those that have had to do so, generally only had to let a small percentage of their employees go. And if a few firms had to downsize a little for more Americans to become insured and gain access to critical health services, so be it.



Nilgiri said:


> Indeed.... swing state shenanigans must be looked out for vigilantly by localised, neutral and independent citizen groups.





Desert Fox said:


> *5 Times Democrats Claimed U.S. Elections Are ‘Rigged’*​
> 
> 
> by Joel B. Pollak20 Oct 2016
> 
> Democrats are aghast that Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump would declare our election system “rigged,” and that he declined to state in the third presidential debate whether he would accept the result if he loses in November.
> 
> Trump is both wrong, and right, about the “rigged” nature of the system: in a fair system, Hillary Clinton would certainly not be her party’s candidate.
> 
> Regardless, Democrats — including Hillary Clinton — seem to have forgotten their own history of claiming elections are “rigged.”





Nilgiri said:


> Classic hypocrisy.
> 
> Whats worse is that for all this time mainstream republicans have been playing along given they are politicians too.




Not every claim is true. The election hasn't even taken place yet and the Trumpets are already shouting it's "rigged". Quite a ludicrous accusation at the state and national level in a developed country like America with a very long history of democracy. The shameful 2000 election fiasco aside, American elections have largely been controversy-free when it comes to actually counting the votes.



Desert Fox said:


> They were able to cheat Bernie because Bernie is the type of guy who will allow others to push him around. Remember how those BLM girls hijacked his podium and called his supporters racist  and he just walked to the back of the stage. Bernie had a dedicated, passionate supporter base similar to Trumps and he could have made a lot of noise about the backdoor deals the DNC was doing to undermine him yet he walked away without a fight and let his supporters down by endorsing the wicked witch. So many Bernie supporters have switched over to the Trump camp because of Bernie's betrayal.




The vast majority of Sanders' supporters are going to vote for Hillary over Trump. That's a fact. You can look it up, any poll will show you this. Though many of them hate her too. And many, like me, won't be voting for either candidate.

He doesn't get pushed around by anyone. If you look at the political positions he's taken throughout his lengthy career as political servant, this is quite apparent. He's been remarkably consistent for a politician, and has almost always been on the "right" side of issue.

He's endorsed Hillary because he wants to stop Trump and because he wants protect himself from her supporters and the detestable people in her campaign/DNC. In January 2017, he will become unchained and will go back to being himself. If Clinton is elected President, he will likely be her foremost critic on economic issues. An area in which she will inevitably come up well short, and will even renege on the promises she made in her campaign (like on the TPP/banks/minimum wage).



Darmashkian said:


> All because of the Dems. SUch a situation favours them a lot.
> 
> Get this you need an ID card for welfare benefits & a car drivers license+a lot more,but wanting one for voting is racist. -_-
> 
> When the repubs try to change this carelessness, they are called racist by these human rights people & the Dems.




There are very, very few instances of voter-fraud on record. The amount is negligible. No one actually tries to do this. If a sizable number people tried to do this, it would become obvious rather quickly. It's a non-issue brought up by Republicans to help suppress voting. All that these so called "Voter-ID" laws do is prevent many eligible voters from voting when they show up at their polling locations to vote.

I routinely forget my wallet when I travel, and so do others. Would it be right to deny them the right to vote simply because they forgot to bring an acceptable form identification with them? And what if what they did bring with them was deemed insufficient or outdated at the polls? What then? Most people vote on election day after work. Many don't have the time to go home, find the necessary identification if they have misplaced it, and then make it back in time to vote. It's a solution to a non-existent problem.

It's not about race. It's about poor and less-reliable voters. Would you support a strict voter identification system in India that would presumably unfairly affect poor/rural/inner-city voters? The wealthy and urban middle class and elites would have an out-sized influence on the election, if so. Is that true democracy?



Darmashkian said:


> 1)yep,I agree with what u said about Trump+a lot of the stuff said about him. But don't forget,millions of Americans love him   & 40%+ of your people will definitely vote for him..




Probably more like 45%+, actually. Hillary is that bad, unfortunately.



Darmashkian said:


> 2)Silent voters do NOT tell their choice to the pollsters too(in most cases).That's why they are called silent,even in polling samples they tell not the truth.  Most of them do NOT want anyone else to know that they support Trump(unless that person is a fellow silent trump supporter)




I have to disagree. Lots of people are telling pollsters that they will be voting Trump. They have little to lose by telling a pollster their preference. Though they may not always tell those around them.

However, as I've discussed before, polls may be overstating her support somewhat due to potential turnout problems.



Darmashkian said:


> 3)I too would leave the field blank if I lived in the USA(right now)
> 4)That wikileaks stuff has really hurt Hillary among many millenials and Bernie fans,period! But I doubt it could win trump voters




Agreed.



Darmashkian said:


> @KAL-EL @LA se Karachi I feel sorry for your bad choices  Both candidates suck(though I liked HC till a few months back). DOn't worry,I'm sure either of them will last for 1 term only. Best of Luck in surviving them!




Thank you for your kind words, my friend. But I am far more concerned about the long-term political and economic problems in this country than 4-8 years of Hillary or Trump. If we got through Dubya's Presidency, we will get through this too.

It's just hard to see us moving in the wrong direction yet again. Especially when we finally had a chance to start addressing the economic issues that plague this country. Income inequality is reaching near-disastrous levels not seen since the 1930s during the Great Depression.

The economy has grown dramatically since 1980, and yet, middle and working class Americans have seen their incomes and wealth _decline_ slightly. Even though they have grown astronomically for the wealthiest 1-10% of Americans. What's the point of any economic growth at all when it is quite literally only the wealthy that benefit? Why should they get all of the income growth, if productivity per worker has increased dramatically too?

With Bernie Sanders, we finally had a candidate that would take real steps to reverse these trends and return the economy to what it used to be before the 1980s/1990s. He had the unique ability to get working-class white voters, middle-class voters, political independents, true progressives, and economically disadvantaged non-voters, lifting the slowly drowning Democratic Party with him.

Alas, he was passed over for a rich political opportunist with terrible political positions on economic and foreign policy issues, who is far less electable and is detested by the American public. Not to mention the poor judgment she has shown throughout her career and the innumerable amount of times she's changed her positions on issues. She has even lied outright to voters multiple times.

What the upside to Hilary is, I still don't know. Even her supporters can't tell us. They have resigned themselves to bashing Trump because they know that getting people to like Hillary herself is a losing proposition. If Sanders was the nominee instead, it would be a different picture politically and economically. We can only hope for better candidates next time. Though I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel. At least in the near future.

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## XenoEnsi-14

I've got a really tough choice, vote Libertarian, or write in George Washington whose been dead for a while........


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## T-72




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## T-72




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## Darmashkian

LA se Karachi said:


> Yes, elect a Clinton instead. Because that worked out so well for the rich and the banks as well:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The rate of uninsured of Americans has dropped dramatically since the passage of the ACA, and is now at an all-time low:
> 
> _"The percentage of Americans that do not have health insurance now sits at 8.6%, the lowest on record, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ http://www.businessinsider.com/americans-without-health-insurance-all-time-low-uninsured-rate-2016-9
> _
> 
> Very few companies have been forced to "downsize" as a result of Obamacare. This is more a (false) right-wing talking point than reality. Those that have had to do so, generally only had to let a small percentage of their employees go. And if a few firms had to downsize a little for more Americans to become insured and gain access to critical health services, so be it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not every claim is true. The election hasn't even taken place yet and the Trumpets are already shouting it's "rigged". Quite a ludicrous accusation at the state and national level in a developed country like America with a very long history of democracy. The shameful 2000 election fiasco aside, American elections have largely been controversy-free when it comes to actually counting the votes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The vast majority of Sanders' supporters are going to vote for Hillary over Trump. That's a fact. You can look it up, any poll will show you this. Though many of them hate her too. And many, like me, won't be voting for either candidate.
> 
> He doesn't get pushed around by anyone. If you look at the political positions he's taken throughout his lengthy career as political servant, this is quite apparent. He's been remarkably consistent for a politician, and has almost always been on the "right" side of issue.
> 
> He's endorsed Hillary because he wants to stop Trump and because he wants protect himself from her supporters and the detestable people in her campaign/DNC. In January 2017, he will become unchained and will go back to being himself. If Clinton is elected President, he will likely be her foremost critic on economic issues. An area in which she will inevitably come up well short, and will even renege on the promises she made in her campaign (like on the TPP/banks/minimum wage).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are very, very few instances of voter-fraud on record. The amount is negligible. No one actually tries to do this. If a sizable number people tried to do this, it would become obvious rather quickly. It's a non-issue brought up by Republicans to help suppress voting. All that these so called "Voter-ID" laws do is prevent many eligible voters from voting when they show up at their polling locations to vote.
> 
> I routinely forget my wallet when I travel, and so do others. Would it be right to deny them the right to vote simply because they forgot to bring an acceptable form identification with them? And what if what they did bring with them was deemed insufficient or outdated at the polls? What then? Most people vote on election day after work. Many don't have the time to go home, find the necessary identification if they have misplaced it, and then make it back in time to vote. It's a solution to a non-existent problem.
> 
> It's not about race. It's about poor and less-reliable voters. Would you support a strict voter identification system in India that would presumably unfairly affect poor/rural/inner-city voters? The wealthy and urban middle class and elites would have an out-sized influence on the election, if so. Is that true democracy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably more like 45%+, actually. Hillary is that bad, unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to disagree. Lots of people are telling pollsters that they will be voting Trump. They have little to lose by telling a pollster their preference. Though they may not always tell those around them.
> 
> However, as I've discussed before, polls may be overstating her support somewhat due to potential turnout problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your kind words, my friend. But I am far more concerned about the long-term political and economic problems in this country than 4-8 years of Hillary or Trump. If we got through Dubya's Presidency, we will get through this too.
> 
> It's just hard to see us moving in the wrong direction yet again. Especially when we finally had a chance to start addressing the economic issues that plague this country. Income inequality is reaching near-disastrous levels not seen since the 1930s during the Great Depression.
> 
> The economy has grown dramatically since 1980, and yet, middle and working class Americans have seen their incomes and wealth _decline_ slightly. Even though they have grown astronomically for the wealthiest 1-10% of Americans. What's the point of any economic growth at all when it is quite literally only the wealthy that benefit? Why should they get all of the income growth, if productivity per worker has increased dramatically too?
> 
> With Bernie Sanders, we finally had a candidate that would take real steps to reverse these trends and return the economy to what it used to be before the 1980s/1990s. He had the unique ability to get working-class white voters, middle-class voters, political independents, true progressives, and economically disadvantaged non-voters, lifting the slowly drowning Democratic Party with him.
> 
> Alas, he was passed over for a rich political opportunist with terrible political positions on economic and foreign policy issues, who is far less electable and is detested by the American public. Not to mention the poor judgment she has shown throughout her career and the innumerable amount of times she's changed her positions on issues. She has even lied outright to voters multiple times.
> 
> What the upside to Hilary is, I still don't know. Even her supporters can't tell us. They have resigned themselves to bashing Trump because they know that getting people to like Hillary herself is a losing proposition. If Sanders was the nominee instead, it would be a different picture politically and economically. We can only hope for better candidates next time. Though I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel. At least in the near future.


Will respond later to this post.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/790048047946428416
In other news,Trump gave a speech in Gettysburg,PA(note the significance of the location) where he laid out his 'contract with the American People'.

Some things are obvious like he doesn't care much about Climate Change....(Does he even believe in it??)+he is determined to do something about lobbying carried out by govt.. officials of special interests & other nations(check the 4th and 5th points below)

@Nilgiri @T-72 @boomslang @RabzonKhan @KAL-EL Have a look

I read a few weeks back that together with Chris Christie he is working on legislation to get rid of many bureaucrats & officials who he suspects to be pro-Obama & pro-Democrat.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...burg_term_limits_energy_immigration_more.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Therefore, on the first day of my term of office, my administration will immediately pursue the following six measures to clean up the corruption and special interest collusion in Washington, DC:

FIRST, propose a Constitutional Amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress;
SECOND, a hiring freeze on all federal employees to reduce federal workforce through attrition (exempting military, public safety, and public health);
THIRD, a requirement that for every new federal regulation, two existing regulations must be eliminated;
FOURTH, a 5 year-ban on White House and Congressional officials becoming lobbyists after they leave government service;
FIFTH, a lifetime ban on White House officials lobbying on behalf of a foreign government;
SIXTH, a complete ban on foreign lobbyists raising money for American elections.

On the same day, I will begin taking the following seven actions to protect American workers:

FIRST, I will announce my intention to renegotiate NAFTA or withdraw from the deal under Article 2205
SECOND, I will announce our withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership
THIRD, I will direct my Secretary of the Treasury to label China a currency manipulator
FOURTH, I will direct the Secretary of Commerce and U.S. Trade Representative to identify all foreign trading abuses that unfairly impact American workers and direct them to use every tool under American and international law to end those abuses immediately
FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion dollars’ worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil, natural gas and clean coal.
SIXTH, lift the Obama-Clinton roadblocks and allow vital energy infrastructure projects, like the Keystone Pipeline, to move forward
SEVENTH, cancel billions in payments to U.N. climate change programs and use the money to fix America’s water and environmental infrastructure

Additionally, on the first day, I will take the following five actions to restore security and the constitutional rule of law:

FIRST, cancel every unconstitutional executive action, memorandum and order issued by President Obama
SECOND, begin the process of selecting a replacement for Justice Scalia from one of the 20 judges on my list, who will uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States
THIRD, cancel all federal funding to Sanctuary Cities
FOURTH, begin removing the more than 2 million criminal illegal immigrants from the country and cancel visas to foreign countries that won’t take them back
FIFTH, suspend immigration from terror-prone regions where vetting cannot safely occur. All vetting of people coming into our country will be considered extreme vetting.

Next, I will work with Congress to introduce the following broader legislative measures and fight for their passage within the first 100 days of my Administration:

1. Middle Class Tax Relief And Simplification Act. An economic plan designed to grow the economy 4% per year and create at least 25 million new jobs through massive tax reduction and simplification, in combination with trade reform, regulatory relief, and lifting the restrictions on American energy. The largest tax reductions are for the middle class. A middle-class family with 2 children will get a 35% tax cut. The current number of brackets will be reduced from 7 to 3, and tax forms will likewise be greatly simplified. The business rate will be lowered from 35 to 15 percent, and the trillions of dollars of American corporate money overseas can now be brought back at a 10 percent rate.

2. End The Offshoring Act Establishes tariffs to discourage companies from laying off their workers in order to relocate in other countries and ship their products back to the U.S. tax-free.

3. American Energy & Infrastructure Act. Leverages public-private partnerships, and private investments through tax incentives, to spur $1 trillion in infrastructure investment over 10 years. It is revenue neutral.

4. School Choice And Education Opportunity Act. Redirects education dollars to gives parents the right to send their kid to the public, private, charter, magnet, religious or home school of their choice. Ends common core, brings education supervision to local communities. It expands vocational and technical education, and make 2 and 4-year college more affordable.

5. Repeal and Replace Obamacare Act. Fully repeals Obamacare and replaces it with Health Savings Accounts, the ability to purchase health insurance across state lines, and lets states manage Medicaid funds. Reforms will also include cutting the red tape at the FDA: there are over 4,000 drugs awaiting approval, and we especially want to speed the approval of life-saving medications.

6. Affordable Childcare and Eldercare Act. Allows Americans to deduct childcare and elder care from their taxes, incentivizes employers to provide on-site childcare services, and creates tax-free Dependent Care Savings Accounts for both young and elderly dependents, with matching contributions for low-income families.

7. End Illegal Immigration Act Fully-funds the construction of a wall on our southern border with the full understanding that the country Mexico will be reimbursing the United States for the full cost of such wall; establishes a 2-year mandatory minimum federal prison sentence for illegally re-entering the U.S. after a previous deportation, and a 5-year mandatory minimum for illegally re-entering for those with felony convictions, multiple misdemeanor convictions or two or more prior deportations; also reforms visa rules to enhance penalties for overstaying and to ensure open jobs are offered to American workers first.

8. Restoring Community Safety Act. Reduces surging crime, drugs and violence by creating a Task Force On Violent Crime and increasing funding for programs that train and assist local police; increases resources for federal law enforcement agencies and federal prosecutors to dismantle criminal gangs and put violent offenders behind bars.

9. Restoring National Security Act. Rebuilds our military by eliminating the defense sequester and expanding military investment; provides Veterans with the ability to receive public VA treatment or attend the private doctor of their choice; protects our vital infrastructure from cyber-attack; establishes new screening procedures for immigration to ensure those who are admitted to our country support our people and our values

10. Clean up Corruption in Washington Act. Enacts new ethics reforms to Drain the Swamp and reduce the corrupting influence of special interests on our politics.

On November 8th, Americans will be voting for this 100-day plan to restore prosperity to our economy, security to our communities, and honesty to our government.

This is my pledge to you."

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## Gandhi G in da house

Even if Trump wins more overall votes than Hillary what are his chances of getting the requisite electoral seats ? Isn't that required to win the election ? @Darmashkian @Nilgiri @Desert Fox

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## T-72

Darmashkian said:


> In other news,Trump gave a speech in Gettysburg,PA(note the significance of the location) where he laid out his 'contract with the American People'.
> 
> Some things are obvious like he doesn't care much about Climate Change....(Does he even believe in it??)+he is determined to do something about lobbying carried out by govt.. officials of special interests & other nations(check the 4th and 5th points below)
> 
> @Nilgiri @T-72 @boomslang @RabzonKhan @KAL-EL Have a look
> 
> I read a few weeks back that together with Chris Christie he is working on legislation to get rid of many bureaucrats & officials who he suspects to be pro-Obama & pro-Democrat.
> 
> http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...burg_term_limits_energy_immigration_more.html


Seems to have a pretty decent anti corruption blueprint there, too bad their media are not going to help get it out, they'd rather obsess and manufacture outrage over some silly scandal.

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## anon45

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> I've got a really tough choice, vote Libertarian, or write in George Washington whose been dead for a while........



Enough Libertarian votes could potentially lead the libertarians to have a seat in the national debates next electionand secure more funding, so if you are serious, vote libertarian.

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## Desert Fox

LA se Karachi said:


> *He doesn't get pushed around by anyone.* If you look at the political positions he's taken throughout his lengthy career as political servant, this is quite apparent. He's been remarkably consistent for a politician, and has almost always been on the "right" side of issue.



The above contradicts this below:


LA se Karachi said:


> He's endorsed Hillary because he wants to stop Trump *and because he wants protect himself from her supporters and the detestable people in her campaign/DNC*. In January 2017, he will become unchained and will go back to being himself. If Clinton is elected President, he will likely be her foremost critic on economic issues. An area in which she will inevitably come up well short, and will even renege on the promises she made in her campaign (like on the TPP/banks/minimum wage).



A lot of which Bernie opposed Trump opposes too, and Hillary stands for, though granted Trump and Bernie do have their many differences, but not to the same extant Bernie has with Hillary and thus his endorsement of her was really shameful.



LA se Karachi said:


> There are very, very few instances of voter-fraud on record. The amount is negligible. No one actually tries to do this. If a sizable number people tried to do this, it would become obvious rather quickly. It's a non-issue brought up by Republicans to help suppress voting. All that these so called "Voter-ID" laws do is prevent many eligible voters from voting when they show up at their polling locations to vote.


What you're talking about is "hard rigging" which is one of two types of rigging (the other being a "soft-rig"), something @gambit explained very well in this post: https://defence.pk/threads/us-presi...6-news-and-views.374363/page-118#post-8837591

"rigging" doesn't always imply in the voting sense, for example Hillary Clinton was provided with questions ahead of a debate with Bernie Sanders, thus it is safe to say the debate was rigged in her favor because Bernie wasn't getting such favors:




​*Also, i would just like to highlight another thing, a four star General gets sentenced to 5 years in prison for lying to the FBI for his mishandling of classified information, but Hillary Clinton who did the same gets off scotch free. In such a system where a known criminal is let loose and allowed to run for president i wouldn't be quick to rule out mass voter fraud (it's a possibility).*


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## jha

RCP's tracker result is not what one imagines from following US media reports.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/elections/

In some polls, Trump is shown to be leading.


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## Gandhi G in da house

jha said:


> RCP's tracker result is not what one imagines from following US media reports.
> 
> http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/elections/
> 
> In some polls, Trump is shown to be leading.



Does it matter ? In the electoral seat projections Trump is trailing by big margins.

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## LA se Karachi

Desert Fox said:


> The above contradicts this below:




No, it does not. I don't think you understood what I said.

Bernie has not changed his positions on any issues. Not one. And yes, he endorsed Hillary. Because, as bad as she is, she is still better than Trump. If only by a little bit. Unfortunately, our choices in this election are "bad" and "worse", because of our two-party system. Bernie, like most of his supporters who will vote for one of the two, has chosen "bad" (Clinton), because he doesn't have much of a choice. He has made his thoughts about Hillary's political positions very clear throughout the primary. He continues to disagree with some of them. And if she is elected President, he will fight her when he needs to as a Senator.



Desert Fox said:


> A lot of which Bernie opposed Trump opposes too, and Hillary stands for, though granted Trump and Bernie do have their many differences, but not to the same extant Bernie has with Hillary and thus his endorsement of her was really shameful.




False. You seem to be deliberately avoiding the fact that Bernie and Hillary, for all their differences, have more in common than Bernie and Trump do. They are both Democrats. You can cherry-pick some positions (like on trade), to show where Bernie and Trump agree. But the fact of the matter remains that they disagree far more than agree. Look up their political positions. I will be glad to point out the differences if you are unable to see. They're very apparent, especially on social issues.



Desert Fox said:


> What you're talking about is "hard rigging" which is one of two types of rigging (the other being a "soft-rig"), something @gambit explained very well in this post: https://defence.pk/threads/us-presi...6-news-and-views.374363/page-118#post-8837591
> 
> "rigging" doesn't always imply in the voting sense, for example Hillary Clinton was provided with questions ahead of a debate with Bernie Sanders, thus it is safe to say the debate was rigged in her favor because Bernie wasn't getting such favors:




I was merely responding to the article you posted that seemed to focus on this "hard-rigging", as you call it. Look through your post again:

US Presidential Elections 2016 News and Views

And as for "soft-rigging", there is no party apparatus like there was in the Democratic Primary between Sanders and Clinton. Trump too may have been a victim of this when he was running in the Republican Primary, but he won nonetheless.

For the general election, however, there is no DNC/RNC to mess with things behind the scenes. The media pointing how crazy Trump can be sometimes is not evidence of "soft-rigging".


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## Desert Fox

LA se Karachi said:


> No, it does not. I don't think you understood what I said.
> 
> Bernie has not changed his positions on any issues. Not one. And yes, he endorsed Hillary. Because, as bad as she is, she is still better than Trump. If only by a little bit. Unfortunately, our choices in this election are "bad" and "worse", because of our two-party system. Bernie, like most of his supporters who will vote for one of the two, has chosen "bad" (Clinton), because he doesn't have much of a choice. He has made his thoughts about Hillary's political positions very clear throughout the primary. He continues to disagree with some of them. And if she is elected President, he will fight her when he needs to as a Senator.


Yes it does. You stated he did it out of fear. Endorsing someone who he said "has a very bad judgement", on top of disagreeing with her on many issues does show a serious contradiction in his stance. I never implied that he should have endorse Trump or that he had to, but neither did he have to endorse a woman whom he said "has a very bad judgement" because then that just shows a serious contradiction in him.





LA se Karachi said:


> False. You seem to be deliberately avoiding the fact that Bernie and Hillary, for all their differences, have more in common than Bernie and Trump do. They are both Democrats. You can cherry-pick some positions (like on trade), to show where Bernie and Trump agree. But the fact of the matter remains that they disagree far more than agree. Look up their political positions. I will be glad to point out the differences if you are unable to see. They're very apparent, especially on social issues.


No i'm not. I don't see why you are making this a personal issue.

And yes, their differences are VERY significant, even if they might agree on a couple of things. For example, along with their differences on trade, Hillary is very pro-interventionist and a war-hawk while Bernie is not and this is a much bigger issue compared to something like abortion, free (college) education, or immigration since the implications will be far reaching.






LA se Karachi said:


> I was merely responding to the article you posted that seemed to focus on this "hard-rigging", as you call it. Look through your post again:
> 
> US Presidential Elections 2016 News and Views
> 
> And as for "soft-rigging", there is no party apparatus like there was in the Democratic Primary between Sanders and Clinton. Trump too may have been a victim of this when he was running in the Republican Primary, but he won nonetheless.
> 
> For the general election, however, there is no DNC/RNC to mess with things behind the scenes. The media pointing how crazy Trump can be sometimes is not evidence of "soft-rigging".



*EDITED:* You quoted two of my posts, and the article i posted was merely to expose the hypocrisy of the Democrats and their media arms who accuse Trump of inciting doubts in the election system when they did the same exact thing in the past. . And nothing can be more crazier than a delusional woman who wants to impose a no-fly-zone on a nuclear armed country in order to protect "moderate" terrorists. Not to mention she claims to champion women's rights but takes massive donations from Saudi Arabia.


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## LA se Karachi

Desert Fox said:


> Yes it does. You stated he did it out of fear.




No it does not. Please re-read my post. It's the very first thing I said for a reason. The primary reason he did it was out of fear of _Trump:_



LA se Karachi said:


> *He's endorsed Hillary because he wants to stop Trump* and because he wants protect himself from her supporters and the detestable people in her campaign/DNC. In January 2017, he will become unchained and will go back to being himself. If Clinton is elected President, he will likely be her foremost critic on economic issues. An area in which she will inevitably come up well short, and will even renege on the promises she made in her campaign (like on the TPP/banks/minimum wage).



Source: https://defence.pk/threads/us-presi...-news-and-views.374363/page-118#ixzz4NwxJUG35

Clinton's loathsome surrogates are only a side issue. A President Trump is far more dangerous to him than any backlash from her backers/the Democratic Party. Being "pushed around" would mean changing his positions on important issues to go along with Clinton. He has not done that. Not endorsing Hillary to help stop Trump, a person he detests.



Desert Fox said:


> Endorsing someone who he said "has a very bad judgement", on top of disagreeing with her on many issues does show a serious contradiction in his stance.




Again you seem to be deliberately avoiding the point that Trump has _worse_ judgement and he disagrees on more with him than Hillary. I'm not sure how much clearer I can put it. I can post videos of Bernie both now and before she was nominated to make my point if you want. I'll let him speak for himself.



Desert Fox said:


> No i'm not. I don't see why you are making this a personal issue.




I don't know what you mean by that. I don't believe I'm doing any such thing. No need to take it personally, my friend. I'm enjoying this conversation. I hope that you are too.

I was just trying to say that your arguments seem to be predicated on the (false) idea that he has more in common with Trump than Hillary. That's simply not true. Though Hillary and Bernie do have large differences on some issues too. No doubt about that.



Desert Fox said:


> this is a much bigger issue compared to something like abortion, free education, or immigration since the implications will be far reaching.




Maybe you for you. That's entirely your opinion. His former supporters seem to disagree. There are many issues in an American Presidential election. Social, political, economic, and foreign policy related issues, etc...

Only on foreign policy and trade do you allege that Bernie has more in common with Trump than Hillary. I don't agree (he's different from both). But either way, the other issues combined far outweigh foreign policy when it comes to the impact on a person's life. And on almost all of them (trade aside), Bernie has more in common with Hillary.



Desert Fox said:


> And yes, their differences are VERY significant, even if they might agree on a couple of things. For example, along with their differences on trade, Hillary is very pro-interventionist and a war-hawk while Bernie is not...




Contrary to what you might think, Trump is quite a hawk when it comes to the Middle East/Muslim countries. Look up the things he's said. And yes, unfortunately, Hillary is somewhat of a hawk too, if in a different way than Trump. They're both bad on foreign policy, in my opinion.

But ultimately, I don't care. Either way, he has more in common with Hillary than Trump, whatever views you might have about their foreign policy. That's my only point. 



Desert Fox said:


> *EDITED:* You quoted two of my posts, and the article i posted was merely to expose the hypocrisy of the Democrats and their media arms who accuse Trump of inciting doubts in the election system when they did the same exact thing in the past.




Understood, but I quoted your post/article only to respond to you when you said that my earlier post on page 118 only discussed "hard-rigging" and not "soft-rigging". That was true. But I did this only to show I was responding to the "hard-rigging" that your article was discussing. There will be no "hard rigging" in this election. That was my point.

I responded to your claim of possible "soft-rigging" in the general election separately in my previous post above, on this page.

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## gambit

LA se Karachi said:


> The media pointing how crazy Trump can be sometimes is not evidence of "soft-rigging".


But if the media does not allocate the equal efforts and resources to investigate HC's unethical, if not outright illegal, acts, then it is a soft rig. So far, as much as it is funny to say this, Fox News seems to be the real journalist in this. But ultimately, because FN is outnumbered, the soft rig is favorable to HC.

Why is 'crazy' deemed more newsworthy than 'unethical' ? In the criminal justice system, being mentally ill will reduce your punishment considerably, but the harshest condemnation from the public will always be for those who are of sound mind and uses his/her intelligence and insider knowledge for personal gains.

We judge someone not on whether he/she is technically guilty but more on intent. If I leer at your little girl, how would you feel being around me, even though I have not done anything technically criminal ? So when the 'mainstream media', aka the MSM in FN-speak, consistently pointed out how HC have not broken any law and sidesteps the ethical trespass, that is a soft rig for her. Likewise, the MSM often pointed out Chump's paying zero taxes, even though seemingly every tax loopholes he used were legal, and insinuate that he enjoys skirting the boundaries of legality, that is a soft rig against him.

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## cloud4000

anon45 said:


> Enough Libertarian votes could potentially lead the libertarians to have a seat in the national debates next electionand secure more funding, so if you are serious, vote libertarian.



I'm voting Libertarian because I'm a libertarian, and have been one since 1996. No Libertarians will do better this time then any other time in its history. The idea of being allowed on debates would be welcome, but I don't know if libertarians should be taking tax payer money. It's a matter of principle: why should taxpayers be forced to give money to politicians, especially whose views they find abhorrent? Do you really want taxpayer money to go to the likes of David Duke and other racist scum? 

It's an interesting question to ponder.


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## LA se Karachi

gambit said:


> But if the media does not allocate the equal efforts and resources to investigate HC's unethical, if not outright illegal, acts, then it is a soft rig.




I agree. The media's lack of coverage regarding Hillary Clinton's email scandal was shameful. However, the FBI essentially letting her off the hook made it difficult for them to continue covering the issue. It just came off as beating a dead horse. Even though it was a legitimate issue.



gambit said:


> So far, as much as it is funny to say this, Fox News seems to be the real journalist in this.




Sad but true. As Sanders supporter, I noticed this during the primaries. And believe me, the irony is not lost on me. They were one of the few media sources that gave it proper attention. But you've heard the story about the boy that cried "wolf". It's too bad that other, more respectable, media outlets didn't cover it enough.



gambit said:


> Why is 'crazy' deemed more newsworthy than 'unethical' ? In the criminal justice system, being mentally ill will reduce your punishment considerably, but the harshest condemnation from the public will always be for those who are of sound mind and uses his/her intelligence and insider knowledge for personal gains.
> 
> We judge someone not on whether he/she is technically guilty but more on intent. If I leer at your little girl, how would you feel being around me, even though I have not done anything technically criminal ?




I do believe that they had this idea of "too big to jail". But what can you do if the government (and the FBI) is unwilling to take a stand and do its job? Even if they couldn't indict her, they could have made their views about her unethical actions very clear. Instead, they chose to go soft on her.

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I don't think it was a coincidence that the FBI released its findings after it became clear the Hillary Clinton had sewn up the nomination. Perhaps they would been more damning in their report if she had lost, knowing that Trump could not have used it as ammunition against her. It does raise serious questions about our government.

It seems to me that Hillary found the ultimate "get out of jail free card" in more ways than one with Trump. What can you do?



gambit said:


> . Likewise, the MSM often pointed out Chump's paying zero taxes, even though seemingly every tax loopholes he used were legal, and insinuate that he enjoys skirting the boundaries of legality, that is a soft rig against him.




On this, I have to disagree with you. He could have released his tax returns on his own and avoided some of the shock factor. He chose not to do. Secondly, the people are free to make their own decisions. There is no "rig" on this particular issue of any kind. The media is simply reporting the truth. Personally, I would hope that people find it horrific that such a rich man has been able to avoid paying taxes through what seem to be completely legal means. The tax code needs a serious overhaul.

Either way, the reason it's such a revelation to some (and the media) is that he constantly talks about himself as some wildly successful businessman. Many of his supporters like him for this reason (whether you agree with them or not). They believe that his supposed business acumen will help make him a good president. But his tax records allegedly show a huge loss (in the booming 1990s, no less). A loss so large, that it's possible he's been using it to avoid paying taxes these past twenty years. That's very relevant when it comes to his candidacy. And it should be covered extensively.


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## T-72




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## gambit

LA se Karachi said:


> I agree. The media's lack of coverage regarding Hillary Clinton's email scandal was shameful. However, *the FBI essentially letting her off the hook made it difficult for them to continue covering the issue. It just came off as beating a dead horse.* Even though it was a legitimate issue.


On the one hand, find someone not guilty under the technicalities of the laws and trials often compels observers to minimize moral judgement as well. But on the other hand, just like how bosses of organized crime often 'got off on a technicality' that is equally compelling for people to continue viewing organized crime leaders as cancer of society.

I say the media have an obligation to pursue the issue precisely because the President is supposed to be a person of exceptional moral leadership, not whether what he/she do crosses the criminality line.

Do I have the right to demand the President to be a saint ? Absolutely I have that right. But just because we all falls short of the saintly standards, that does not mean I do not have the right to demand he/she approaches those standards as close as possible. After all, we are talking about the person who occupies that office making decisions that will affect everything in my life, from how much money I can make for my family to whether or not one day mine and your sons may die in a foreign military adventure.

The Bushes are no longer in contention for the White House, but take a look at this book...

https://www.amazon.com/Family-Real-Story-Bush-Dynasty/dp/0385503245

Usually, whenever we see any book about any person of note that have the word 'real' in its title, it is usually not a very flattering reportage. Without any evidence that would stand on its own in a court of law, the Bushes are still under moral suspicions and indictments.

It is fine to beat the dead horse when it comes to the Bushes but not fine for the Clintons ?



LA se Karachi said:


> On this, I have to disagree with you. He could have released his tax returns on his own and avoided some of the shock factor. He chose not to do. Secondly, the people are free to make their own decisions. There is no "rig" on this particular issue of any kind. The media is simply reporting the truth. Personally, I would hope that people find it horrific that such a rich man has been able to avoid paying taxes through what seem to be completely legal means. The tax code needs a serious overhaul.


My point was not about Trump and his taxes.

Personally, I do not and have never claimed my charity donations on my tax filings, even though I know it is legal to do so in order to reduce my tax liability. If it turned out the the Lump is not as charitable person as he made himself out to be and that he exploited every possible tax loopholes we have, that will be just another negative moral mark I can use to judge him as a person.

My point is that it is hypocritical for the media to focus on Chump's moralities for everything he does while letting Clinton jumped over the lowest bar, that of whether she has done anything legally criminal.

Take the email server scandal, for example. I know that if my doctor was that cavalier with my health e-records, he would be fired toot-sweet. And yet with HC, we are talking about making national security information vulnerable to background trespass that she would never know. Hollywood studios have gone after leakers of TV and movie scripts. All those Silicon Valley IT chiefs who supports Clinton ? They know that what she did would have gotten a CTO fired or even sued after termination. The media knows this, and yet not one of them from both camps came out and be intellectually honest with the American people.

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## T-72



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## Akasa

gambit said:


> But if the media does not allocate the equal efforts and resources to investigate HC's unethical, if not outright illegal, acts, then it is a soft rig. So far, as much as it is funny to say this, Fox News seems to be the real journalist in this. But ultimately, because FN is outnumbered, the soft rig is favorable to HC.
> 
> Why is 'crazy' deemed more newsworthy than 'unethical' ? In the criminal justice system, being mentally ill will reduce your punishment considerably, but the harshest condemnation from the public will always be for those who are of sound mind and uses his/her intelligence and insider knowledge for personal gains.
> 
> We judge someone not on whether he/she is technically guilty but more on intent. If I leer at your little girl, how would you feel being around me, even though I have not done anything technically criminal ? So when the 'mainstream media', aka the MSM in FN-speak, consistently pointed out how HC have not broken any law and sidesteps the ethical trespass, that is a soft rig for her. Likewise, the MSM often pointed out Chump's paying zero taxes, even though seemingly every tax loopholes he used were legal, and insinuate that he enjoys skirting the boundaries of legality, that is a soft rig against him.



Well said.

The media bias surrounding the elections is quite astounding this year, although expected, since Clinton's advisors are known for influencing key individuals of media groups to her favor, if not through blackmail then through coercion.


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## Major d1

trums has no trump card. lol


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## LA se Karachi

gambit said:


> On the one hand, find someone not guilty under the technicalities of the laws and trials often compels observers to minimize moral judgement as well. But on the other hand, just like how bosses of organized crime often 'got off on a technicality' that is equally compelling for people to continue viewing organized crime leaders as cancer of society.
> 
> I say the media have an obligation to pursue the issue precisely because the President is supposed to be a person of exceptional moral leadership, not whether what he/she do crosses the criminality line.
> 
> Do I have the right to demand the President to be a saint ? Absolutely I have that right. But just because we all falls short of the saintly standards, that does not mean I do not have the right to demand he/she approaches those standards as close as possible. After all, we are talking about the person who occupies that office making decisions that will affect everything in my life, from how much money I can make for my family to whether or not one day mine and your sons may die in a foreign military adventure.
> 
> The Bushes are no longer in contention for the White House, but take a look at this book...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Family-Real-Story-Bush-Dynasty/dp/0385503245
> 
> Usually, whenever we see any book about any person of note that have the word 'real' in its title, it is usually not a very flattering reportage. Without any evidence that would stand on its own in a court of law, the Bushes are still under moral suspicions and indictments.
> 
> It is fine to beat the dead horse when it comes to the Bushes but not fine for the Clintons ?




It is absolutely fine to beat the dead horse when it comes to both the Bushes and the Clintons. I certainly do, and encourage others to do so too. The two families are similar in more (negative) ways than one. A point that is often lost on some Democrats and liberals. They are both corrupt to the core and have made their money in less than kosher ways.

We are in complete agreement on this particular issue, my friend. I don't like Hillary (or her husband). I was very upset that the media did not continue to cover the emails scandal after the FBI report came out. They should have. I've paid close attention to the issue as a Sanders supporter during the primaries, and what she did was unethical, bordering on criminal. There is no way around it. I was merely saying though that it _appeared _to come off as beating a dead horse for the media, though it was in fact not. I wasn't suggesting that this should have prevented the media from giving it the attention it deserved. It should not have.

I completely agree with you when you say that we as Americans have every right to demand that our next President has the highest moral standards possible, and is free of corruption. That's what many of us have been saying all along. A family that rakes in tens of millions of dollars through "speaking fees" (more than $100,000 an hour) from investment banks, uses the same tax loopholes they criticize, has questionable ties to foreign entities through their foundation, and have been caught lying many times before are very far from this standard. No doubt about it.



gambit said:


> My point was not about Trump and his taxes.
> 
> Personally, I do not and have never claimed my charity donations on my tax filings, even though I know it is legal to do so in order to reduce my tax liability. If it turned out the the Lump is not as charitable person as he made himself out to be and that he exploited every possible tax loopholes we have, that will be just another negative moral mark I can use to judge him as a person.




Understood, but I was just trying to make a point about the hypocrisy of Trump when he claims to be a great businessman and the huge loss that he claimed on his 1995 tax return. A loss so large, that he might have avoided paying federal taxes for nearly two decades.

Our disagreement seems to stem from the fact that you seem to think that the media is implying he did something bordering on illegal, while I'm simply stating that the media is giving (deserved) attention to this issue to show the complete failure that he was as a businessman and how he made his money. And when it all went up in flames, he used it to claim an enormous tax write-off, bringing him another huge financial benefit. That's the issue, more so than how much he actually paid in federal taxes:

_"On the presidential campaign trail, Mr. Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee, often boasts of his success in Atlantic City, of how he outwitted the Wall Street firms that financed his casinos and rode the value of his name to riches. A central argument of his candidacy is that he would bring the same business prowess to the Oval Office, doing for America what he did for his companies."_

_"But even as his companies did poorly, Mr. Trump did well. He put up little of his own money, shifted personal debts to the casinos and collected millions of dollars in salary, bonuses and other payments. The burden of his failures fell on investors and others who had bet on his business acumen."_
_
"In three interviews with The Times since late April, Mr. Trump acknowledged in general terms that high debt and lagging revenues had plagued his casinos. He did not recall details about some issues, but did not question The Times’s findings. He repeatedly emphasized that what really mattered about his time in Atlantic City was that he had made a lot of money there.

Mr. Trump assembled his casino empire by borrowing money at such high interest rates — after telling regulators he would not — that the businesses had almost no chance to succeed."_

_http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/nyregion/donald-trump-atlantic-city.html_



gambit said:


> My point is that it is hypocritical for the media to focus on Chump's moralities for everything he does while letting Clinton jumped over the lowest bar, that of whether she has done anything legally criminal.
> 
> Take the email server scandal, for example. I know that if my doctor was that cavalier with my health e-records, he would be fired toot-sweet. And yet with HC, we are talking about making national security information vulnerable to background trespass that she would never know. Hollywood studios have gone after leakers of TV and movie scripts. All those Silicon Valley IT chiefs who supports Clinton ? They know that what she did would have gotten a CTO fired or even sued after termination. The media knows this, and yet not one of them from both camps came out and be intellectually honest with the American people.




I agree for the most part. Although I think it's a bit more nuanced than you make it sound. However, this has been a problem since the primaries. Hillary's indiscretions go largely unnoticed because of the raging lunatic that the media is obsessed over. With that said, has Trump's judgment been any better? Alas, these are the two finalists for our next president.


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## Major d1




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## gambit

LA se Karachi said:


> *Our disagreement seems to stem from the fact that you seem to think that the media is implying he did something bordering on illegal,* while I'm simply stating that the media is giving (deserved) attention to this issue to show the complete failure that he was as a businessman and how he made his money. And when it all went up in flames, he used it to claim an enormous tax write-off, bringing him another huge financial benefit.


Per the highlighted -- I do.

I want a free media, as in free from governmental restraints. Am not talking profanities or sex. You want swearing or BJs ? Get cable TV. I have no problems with that.

What I want is a media free from constraints of political issues. But at the same time, I want a responsible media as well. Just like how I want a President of the highest moral virtues, I want a media that is adversarial or even hostile to the government but is balanced in presenting all sides of an issue, including the government's side.

There are those in the media who takes ethics beyond the acceptable...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/should-journalists-abstain-from-voting/


> ABC News political director Mark Halperin said *he does not vote and doesn't think any objective journalist should.*
> 
> Halperin takes it one step further by asserting that even the act of contemplating a vote damages the ability to be truly objective.


Halperin is neither the first nor unique to abstain from voting while being an active journalist.

http://www.politico.com/story/2008/02/should-journalists-vote-yes-no-sometimes-008470


> In an online chat on washingtonpost.com in 2004, Downie explained: *“I decided to stop voting when I became the ultimate gatekeeper for what is published in the newspaper.* I wanted to keep a completely open mind about everything we covered and not make a decision, even in my own mind or the privacy of the voting booth, about who should be president or mayor, for example.”


My take is that if an individual journalist can take his ethics to the extreme, that of self restraint from exercising his Constitutional right, surely a media corporation or even the larger media community can be objective with the same kind of self restraint from being overtly biased.

But that is not what we are seeing today. What Hillary Clinton and the Democratic National Committee did were beyond Watergate but no reporter and newspaper dared, or more accurately, *WANTED* to prosecute them in the court of public opinion. The lack of that 'want' is troubling.

This is why I am convinced that the media is indeed out to get Trump, not that I have the man in any regard higher than a snake's belly.

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## LA se Karachi

gambit said:


> Per the highlighted -- I do.
> 
> I want a free media, as in free from governmental restraints. Am not talking profanities or sex. You want swearing or BJs ? Get cable TV. I have no problems with that.
> 
> What I want is a media free from constraints of political issues. But at the same time, I want a responsible media as well. Just like how I want a President of the highest moral virtues, I want a media that is adversarial or even hostile to the government but is balanced in presenting all sides of an issue, including the government's side.
> 
> There are those in the media who takes ethics beyond the acceptable...
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/should-journalists-abstain-from-voting/
> 
> Halperin is neither the first nor unique to abstain from voting while being an active journalist.
> 
> http://www.politico.com/story/2008/02/should-journalists-vote-yes-no-sometimes-008470
> 
> My take is that if an individual journalist can take his ethics to the extreme, that of self restraint from exercising his Constitutional right, surely a media corporation or even the larger media community can be objective with the same kind of self restraint from being overtly biased.
> 
> But that is not what we are seeing today. What Hillary Clinton and the Democratic National Committee did were beyond Watergate but no reporter and newspaper dared, or more accurately, *WANTED* to prosecute them in the court of public opinion. The lack of that 'want' is troubling.
> 
> This is why I am convinced that the media is indeed out to get Trump, not that I have the man in any regard higher than a snake's belly.




I have to go to bed now. But I will respond to you tomorrow.


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## forsigmar

America totally screwed if Hillary becomes president . God help us if a we have a stroke patient in the white house. Special interests and Neocons will destroy the country.

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## Nilgiri

Eric Trump does an admirable job against Hillary shill George Step-on-all-of-us

@Desert Fox @T-72 @Darmashkian @boomslang

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## Darmashkian

@Nilgiri @Desert Fox @jha
It seems you were right,many of these polls are indeed rigged!

Maybe the Dems don't realise,but such huge margins will only make more Hillary voters overconfident & down on their guard.
While on the other hand with Trump screaming about a rigged election left & right,his people will come out in good nos to attempt to give him an overwhelming victory

Read these links:-
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...em-playbook-rigging-polls-through-oversamples

Here is one excerpt:-
"
Now, for all of you out there who still aren't convinced that the polls are "adjusted", we present to you the following Podesta email, leaked earlier today, that conveniently spells out, in detail, exactly how to "manufacture" the desired data. The email starts out with a request for *recommendations on "oversamples for polling" in order to "maximize what we get out of our media polling."*

_I also want to get your Atlas folks to *recommend oversamples for our polling* before we start in February. By market, regions, etc. I want to get this all compiled into one set of recommendations *so we can maximize what we get out of our media polling.*_

The email even includes a handy, 37-page guide with the following poll-rigging recommendations. *In Arizona, over sampling of Hispanics and Native Americans is highly recommended:*

_Research, microtargeting & polling projects
- *Over-sample Hispanics*
- Use Spanish language interviewing. (Monolingual Spanish-speaking voters are among the lowest turnout Democratic targets)
- *Over-sample the Native American population*_

For Florida, the report recommends *"consistently monitoring" samples to makes sure they're "not too old" and "has enough African American and Hispanic voters."* Meanwhile, "independent" voters in Tampa and Orlando are apparently more dem friendly so the report suggests filling up independent quotas in those cities first."

Read these links too:-
https://www.peoplespunditdaily.com/...ic-pollster-pat-caddell-smells-lot-like-2014/
http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presi...l-over-the-place-shock-potential-is-enormous/



gambit said:


> Am no Chump supporter, but I have to side with him in this one.
> 
> I had discussion with a friend and he pointed out an interesting idea: There are two ways of 'rigging' and election.
> 
> The first is the 'hard rig'. This is where you have direct access to the ballot processing system, from the paper to the pencils to the box and all the way to the people tallying the votes.
> 
> The second is the 'soft rig'. If you cannot access the balloting system, then your next best method is to change people's minds, in other words, access of information. If you are a journalist, you slant your reporting and/or commentaries. Remember the infamous 'journolist' scandal ?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JournoList
> 
> When the Democratic National Committee worked to remove Bernie Sanders from contention, that was a 'hard rig'. If the President actively campaigns for you, that would be a 'soft rig', and in this case, there is nothing wrong with that.
> 
> The American Left and media finally admitted that there is a leftist bent among themselves. The American academia finally had to admit to the same. This is what the Bump is complaining about.
> 
> When you vote, there is no challenge to your vote. On the other hand, when you debate, there are challenges between contenders and observers are allowed to make up their minds. There is no challenge in a 'hard rig'. What needed to be done -- will be done in secrecy. In a 'soft rig', challenges are minimized. The challengers' opinions are collectively mocked or even dismissed by those who controls that access to information. Then if sufficient voters are convinced by way of selective information, the rig is successful.


Well said, Sir.



nick_indian said:


> Even if Trump wins more overall votes than Hillary what are his chances of getting the requisite electoral seats ? Isn't that required to win the election ? @Darmashkian @Nilgiri @Desert Fox


This is something that most pollsters don't show ..
These polls on who gets more votes is irrelevant!

What matters is who gets the most Electoral Seats.This election proved that:-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_2000
[Though frankly speaking,in most elections.If you get more votes than the other,it is because you won the required Electoral college seats]

I believe that Trump will get atleast 220+ seats in such a situation,but I'm not counting out a victory.It's still pretty close(the election).But HC has a greater chance of winning!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@RabzonKhan :- I told you a long time back that North Carolina would be a swing state in this election  Way before the Media started polling there.

If Arizona & Georgia can become Tossups,then North Carolina would have been one a long,long time back. 

Frankly speaking,I think there is a chance that Trump could win Ohio & Florida. But still lose North Carolina!

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## Desert Fox

Crooked Hillary's corruption knows no limits, any poll showing Hillary ahead of Trump is most likely rigged. @Nilgiri @Darmashkian @T-72 @RabzonKhan *https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/26551*
*https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/26551*
*Wikileaks: Podesta E-Mail Exposes Democrat Playbook to Rig Polls Through Oversampling*
​The Wikileaks e-mail dump of John Podesta’s gmail account keeps getting crazier and crazier. One of the e-mails dumped shows a playbook from a firm named Atlas Project. The e-mail contains an entire blueprint on how a pollster can rig polling data to favor the Democrat candidate on a state by state basis. The polling data is then used specifically as a psychological weapon in the media against the electorate to discourage the voter base of the opponent.






​


T-72 said:


>


And yet they call Trump the conspiracy theorist

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## CorporateAffairs

Now, Trump can only win if there is a Brexit style voter turnout which I dont think is possible.


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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> Crooked Hillary's corruption knows no limits, any poll showing Hillary ahead of Trump is most likely rigged. @Nilgiri @Darmashkian @T-72 @RabzonKhan
> 
> *Wikileaks: Podesta E-Mail Exposes Democrat Playbook to Rig Polls Through Oversampling*​The Wikileaks e-mail dump of John Podesta’s gmail account keeps getting crazier and crazier. One of the e-mails dumped shows a playbook from a firm named Atlas Project. The e-mail contains an entire blueprint on how a pollster can rig polling data to favor the Democrat candidate on a state by state basis. The polling data is then used specifically as a psychological weapon in the media against the electorate to discourage the voter base of the opponent.


That's what I said too, they're running a very sophisticated psy-op to in the media by having all these post game analyses already, particularly true for CNN and MSNBC.

I think they'll 'punch through' the media with middle and middle class 'murrica turnout in overwhelming numbers for him, and if enough commonsense minorities have joined the Trump train, we might even see a _tremendous



_landslide.

Assange, meanwhile, has been dumping thousands of e-mails every other day which they refuse to talk about but they're slowly chipping away at the narrative. Google showed that a far greater no of people people searched for 'clinton wikileaks' than for 'Trump pussy'

2 weeks to go, far from over, its game on.


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## anon45

https://newrepublic.com/minutes/138010/no-donald-trump-not-l





Bloomberg/Getty
*No, Donald Trump is not losing because of “oversampling.”*
On Monday morning, Trump flagged a ZeroHedge story (that had been previously flagged by Matt Drudge) alleging that the reason Trump is down in the polls is because the Clinton campaign conspired to rig polls by “oversampling” Democrats.

This is an outstanding tweet. The double “the,” the use of the third person—top shelf stuff. But it’s also bullshit. Here’s the relevant portion of the WikiLeaks email from Tom Mattzie that ZeroHedge claims is about public polling:

I also want to get your Atlas folks to recommend oversamples for our polling before we start in February. By market, regions, etc. I want to get this all compiled into one set of recommendations so we can maximize what we get out of our media polling.

The email is from Clinton’s 2008 campaign, which you may recall did not turn out so well for her. But Mattzie is not talking about the kinds of polls that show Trump is losing big league, to use one of his favorite phrases—those polls are done by pollsters in concert with media outlets. Instead, he’s talking about polling that campaigns do internally to decide how to target voters.

_The Washington Post_’s Philip Bump, who has an excellent explainer on what is (most likely) going on here, writes: “Mattzie’s talking about polling that’s done by campaigns and political action committees to inform media buys. In other words, before campaigns spend $200,000 on a flight of TV spots, they’ll poll on the messages in those ads and figure out what to say to whom and then target that ad to those people as best they can.” The oversampling portion of the email, Bump goes on to explain, refers to the fact that it’s often difficult to get the right sample sizes: “Normal polling in a state will usually have no problem getting enough white people in the mix to evaluate where they stand, but you may need to specifically target more black or Hispanic voters to get a statistically relevant sample size.” In this instance, Mattzie is probably referring to “Native Americans and Democrat-leaning independents and moderate Republican women.”

Could the polls showing Clinton with a sizable lead be wrong? Sure. But not because they’ve been rigged by the Clinton campaign.
*end*
This is why context is always important. Almost anything can be spun as sinister if you lack context.

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## T-72

anon45 said:


> https://newrepublic.com/


totally not biased, go ahead, post some Vox and Salon 'analyses' next. 









===========================

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## RabzonKhan

Kellyanne Conway by profession is a pollster, she knows what she's talking about, and those of you claiming polls are rigged, please, stop living in lala land. 

*

Trump campaign admits he is lagging in race as Hillary Clinton aims to build on lead: US election briefing and polls
*
A top adviser to Donald Trump acknowledged on Sunday the Republican presidential candidate was lagging in the race to be president as polls put his rival Hillary Clinton further into the lead.

Even as his campaign manager Kellyanne Conway was admitting Mrs Clinton was ahead, the Republican nominee was blasting the media and boasting of "phenomenal" numbers.

"We are behind," Mr Trump's campaign manager Kellyanne Conway told NBC's "Meet the Press". But she added the Trump campaign was looking to sway undecided voters not ready to support Clinton.

An ABC News/Washington Post poll released on Sunday corroborated the findings of a study published earlier this week by the Monmouth University Polling Institute which showed Mrs Clinton leading Mr Trump 50 percent to 38 percent in a four-way contest with two minor party candidates. *Link*




Darmashkian said:


> @RabzonKhan :- I told you a long time back that North Carolina would be a swing state in this election  Way before the Media started polling there.
> 
> If Arizona & Georgia can become Tossups,then North Carolina would have been one a long,long time back.
> 
> Frankly speaking,I think there is a chance that Trump could win Ohio & Florida. But still lose North Carolina!


I agree with you, check this out: *Link*


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## anon45

T-72 said:


> totally not biased, go ahead, post some Vox and Salon 'analyses' next.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ===========================



Have you ever heard of the phrase 'Pot calling the kettle black'?

I look forward to November 4th. If I recall correctly you were predicting a Trump landslide on your banned account.

Since you don't trust the polls, the reality of it is gonna hit you like a freight train. 



http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/


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## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> Meanwhile Hillary keeps larping on about "it's the Russians, it's the Russians" *without providing any proof* but yet Trump is the conspiracy theorist?


Proof, here you go:
*

Joint DHS and ODNI Election Security Statement*

Friday, October 07, 2016The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed therecent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process. Such activity is not new to Moscow—the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities. *Link*​

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Proof, here you go:
> *
> 
> Joint DHS and ODNI Election Security Statement*
> 
> Friday, October 07, 2016The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed therecent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process. Such activity is not new to Moscow—the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities. *Link*​



That's not proof, only speculation.

The same intelligence that said Saddam Hussein had WMD's  . Not credible.


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## T-72

anon45 said:


> Have you ever heard of the phrase 'Pot calling the kettle black'?


Yes I have, what does that have to do with anything when I haven't been posting anything from Brietbart, Infowars or Hannity etc who are partisan and in the the tank for Trump whereas you have been posting articles from Vox etc



anon45 said:


> I look forward to November 4th.


What for ? You guys go to the polls on November 8th 



anon45 said:


> If I recall correctly you were predicting a Trump landslide on your banned account.
> 
> Since you don't trust the polls, the reality of it is gonna hit you like a freight train.
> 
> 
> 
> http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/


I am _hoping _for a Trump win, and am skeptical of polls that show her ahead by 10 or 12+ points, yes. 

and while no freight train will hit me, it will, however, be sad to get off the Trump train if it runs out of fuel just short of the final destination.


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## T-72

*Full Speech: Donald Trump Holds Rally in Tampa, FL*






*Full Speech: Donald Trump Rally in St. Augustine





*

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## gambit

Desert Fox said:


> That's not proof, only speculation.
> 
> The same intelligence that said Saddam Hussein had WMD's  . Not credible.


The same intelligence that *ALL* the major nuclear powers *AGREED* regarding WMD in Iraq.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=555


> The National Intelligence Estimate of 2002, where their collective views were summarized, asserted with “high confidence” that "Iraq is continuing, and in some areas expanding its chemical, biological, nuclear, and missile programs contrary to UN resolutions.
> 
> *The intelligence agencies of Britain, Germany, Russia, China, Israel, and France all agreed with this judgment.*


Why is it that people continues to believe that Iraq's WMD intelligence were solely from the US ? Do they not know how to use the Internet ?

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## T-72




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## LA se Karachi

gambit said:


> What I want is a media free from constraints of political issues. But at the same time, I want a responsible media as well. Just like how I want a President of the highest moral virtues, I want a media that is adversarial or even hostile to the government but is balanced in presenting all sides of an issue, including the government's side.




Again, I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, however, this seems to be an unrealistic goal. At the end of the day, media sources are corporations looking to make a profit. They will do whatever they believe will generate the highest ratings and the most revenue. It comes down to what people's preferences are. They aren't necessarily trying to be objective or responsible. They aren't incentivized to do that. They will tell the people what they want to hear, most of the time.

Why else do you think that Fox News continues to push its nonsense, even though it's clear to everyone that it is about as far removed from an honest and balanced media source as possible? They have cornered a particular demographic: old, white, and conservative. And as long as they continue to generate a healthy profit, they will never change.

Not to mention that some media sources accept private donations. And it also doesn't help that the FCC does very little to actually regulate the accuracy of American media.



gambit said:


> There are those in the media who takes ethics beyond the acceptable...
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/should-journalists-abstain-from-voting/
> Halperin is neither the first nor unique to abstain from voting while being an active journalist.
> 
> http://www.politico.com/story/2008/02/should-journalists-vote-yes-no-sometimes-008470





gambit said:


> My take is that if an individual journalist can take his ethics to the extreme, that of self restraint from exercising his Constitutional right, surely a media corporation or even the larger media community can be objective with the same kind of self restraint from being overtly biased.




I have to disagree with you here. Abstaining from voting does not make a journalist unbiased. It doesn't help much either. I certainly don't think that he is taking "his ethics to the extreme" by doing this. Halperin is an airhead, in my opinion. Very little of what he says has any substance to it. He just gives very simple analysis on complex political issues.

And he has so much respect for what he does, and gives such substantive analysis, that he once said that President Obama was being "Kind of a d*ck...". Is that what you believe is a journalist of high ethical standards?



gambit said:


> But that is not what we are seeing today. What Hillary Clinton and the Democratic National Committee did were beyond Watergate but no reporter and newspaper dared, or more accurately, *WANTED* to prosecute them in the court of public opinion. The lack of that 'want' is troubling.




Agreed. It's been a problem since the primaries. Her Majesty is above such scrutiny. However, it is also troubling what Fox News and other right-leaning sources do on a daily basis. It cuts both ways. Perhaps more to the benefit of one side than the other, but it's troubling all around nonetheless.



gambit said:


> This is why I am convinced that the media is indeed out to get Trump, not that I have the man in any regard higher than a snake's belly.




Some might be, some aren't. It depends on what source you're referring to. With that said, Trump is a special one. The things he's said and done far exceed what other candidates have in the past. The media wasn't anywhere near as harsh on Mitt Romney and John McCain or other Republicans. I maintain my position that Trump deserves the full glare of the media.

Though they don't seem to give as much attention to Clinton's indiscretions as they should, and that is indeed troubling.


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## gambit

LA se Karachi said:


> ...it also doesn't help that the FCC does very little to actually regulate the accuracy of American media.


I do not want the government to regulate the accuracy of any reportage.

If I say " 2 + 2 = 4 " that is the law of nature. It is non-negotiable and available to all. When a fact is well known, it is essentially self enforced. If a claimed mathematician says " 1 + 1 = 3 ", people will look askance at what he claimed about himself and whether he knows what he is talking about. But if a comedian say " 1 + 1 = 3 ", people will immediately know that it has nothing to do with mathematics but with human relations -- sex.

The point here is that when it comes issues that have great variations in perspectives and interpretations, such as ideologies, politics, and assorted 'soft sciences', dangers increases when we try to impose a 'universal' standard and assign an enforcement authority.

I have a tattoo on my left shoulder. It has a scroll of paper, a compass, and runs of red that drips from the North compass blade. The scroll represents knowledge, the compass is a navigation device, and the red is blood. The whole design means that in navigating thru knowledge, blood will be spilled. If you look at the history of mankind, my tat sums it up nicely.

Just as the people get the politicians they deserve, so do the people get the kind of media they deserve. In a functional democracy like ours, the people have no one to blame but themselves if they do not perform due diligence and fact check the media, the same media that their ancestors fought to make free from government restraints and that the people insisted today, even to the point of bearing arms, to remain so. What was the old Latin saying: " Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? " Who guards the guardians ? The answer is the people.

I feel that strongly about my freedom to knowledge and information that the idea is permanently etched on my body.



LA se Karachi said:


> I have to disagree with you here. Abstaining from voting does not make a journalist unbiased. It doesn't help much either. I certainly don't think that he is taking "his ethics to the extreme" by doing this. Halperin is an airhead, in my opinion. Very little of what he says has any substance to it. He just gives very simple analysis on complex political issues.
> 
> And he has so much respect for what he does, and gives such substantive analysis, that he once said that President Obama was being "Kind of a d*ck...". Is that what you believe is a journalist of high ethical standards?


No, abstention from voting does not automagically make a reporter honest and fair.

If I tell you that I am not a liar, then commended you on your choice of tie to go with your suit, how do you know I am not lying ? You could be looking like a 1970s Harlem leftover. I grew up in that era, buddy.

We fought to keep the media free because we are willing to take the media at its words that it will be 'fair and balanced', to quote Fox News of itself again. My point was that if a reporter like Halperin, regardless of his intelligence or biases, is willing to make a public declaration as to why he does not vote, even though the chance exist that he could be lying about it, we should take Halperin and the media at their words and hold them against what they publicly claimed to be.


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## Darmashkian

Micheal Moore(a liberal,leftwing documentary maker) gets why Trump could win

[Yes,he is a conspiracy theorist & I absolutely do NOT support his views at all.But once in a while he gets something right! & this year,it seems to be this]

He hates Trump & is a fervent Bernie fanboy.






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/790684875258986496
"Trump's election is going to be the biggest "F—ck You ever recorded in human history" - Michael Moore


@T-72 @RabzonKhan

You don't need to like Trump to vote for him. He's the grenade, the molotov cocktail you can throw at the Elite(Wallstreet,media,Establishment,etc) & the System who have failed you & don't care about you!!

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## T-72

Darmashkian said:


> You don't need to like Trump to vote for him. He's the grenade, the molotov cocktail you can throw at the Elite(Wallstreet,media,Establishment,etc) & the System who have failed you & don't care about you!!


exactly what I've been saying for a while, apart from his rabid following, and the ones who are keeping quiet about their support for him, a lot of people will also vote him in as a wrecking-ball directed at D.C

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## Desert Fox

gambit said:


> The same intelligence that *ALL* the major nuclear powers *AGREED* regarding WMD in Iraq.
> 
> http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=555
> 
> Why is it that people continues to believe that Iraq's WMD intelligence were solely from the US ? Do they not know how to use the Internet ?


But does that still negate the fact that US intel was wrong? Which is my point. This whole claim that Russia hacked into emails is based on no concrete evidence. *Just another way for the Dems to shift attention away from their corruption (thankfully nobody's buying it despite how hard the Media is pushing this narrative).*


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## T-72




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## Major d1

How many donation USA got from saudi arbia and other muslim countries?


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## Desert Fox

*Democratic operative caught on camera: Hillary PERSONALLY ordered 'Donald Duck' troll campaign that Violated Federal law by coordinating with tax-exempt pressure group*​

Hillary Clinton personally ordered a consultant to use a nonprofit group to troll the Trump campaign with a 'Donald Duck' mascot, according to the Democratic operatives who say they arranged it with a nonprofit organization.

*The action would be a black-letter violation of federal election law,* which prohibits presidential campaigns from coordinating activities with outside groups that can collect unlimited 'dark money' from contributors – and don't pay taxes on what they collect.

The conservative muckraking group Project Veritas Action released video footage on Monday showing* Robert Creamer, a convicted felon who was forced out of his executive role at the liberal consultancy Democracy Partners, saying Clinton chose the duck stunt.*

'In the end, it was the candidate, Hillary Clinton, the future president of the United States, who wanted ducks on the ground. So by God we would get ducks on the ground,' Creamer says in the video.

SCROLL DOWN FOR VIDEO 





+7
The Americans United for Change-sponsored Donald Duck lookalike mascot has trolled Donald Trump outside campaign events and his real estate properties for months. In this photo, the duck protests outside the newly opened Trump International Hotel in Washington




+7
Caught on camera: The footage shows felon Robert Creamer, who has now been forced out of campaigning, boasting that Hillary Clinton was behind an attack on Trump




+7
By any means: What the undercover camera caught the liberal consultancy staff saying




The far-left nonprofit Americans United for Change was tasked with carrying out the work.

AUFC is tax-exempt under Section 501(c)(4) of the federal tax code, allowing it to conduct limited amounts of electioneering as long as it doesn't directly advocate voting for or against candidates.

It also doesn't have to publicly identify its donors, distinguishing it from super PACs which must disclose their income sources but can electioneer more aggressively.

The Federal Election Commission prohibits campaigns from working with outside groups where a tangible dollar amount is tied to back-and-forth communications.

Money spent to buy the duck costume, pay staff to wear it, and publicize each campaign stunt would be considered an illegal campaign contribution to Hillary For America.

The Clinton campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment. 




+7
Hillary Clinton personally asked for the duck to be deployed instead of an Uncle Sam character, according to the Democratic operative who says he arranged it – which would be considered an illegal campaign contribution since a tax-exempt nonprofit did the work

AUFC's duck costume has been a staple in front of Trump Tower and at the Republican presidential nominee's campaign events in recent months.

Project Veritas Action is the same group that upended the campaign environment this week with video showing Creamer and a subcontractor describing their efforts to 'birddog' Trump events by sending activists into his rallies with instructions to start physical fights.

They were also caught on camera describing a scheme to bus Americans across state lines to commit voter fraud.

James O'Keefe the Project Veritas Action founder, has become a major conservative player in this year's battle of October surprises. Trump's campaign brought him to last week's final presidential debate in Las Vegas, and the candidate himself referenced his videos on stage.

'If it looks like a duck, if it walks like a duck, and if it sounds like a duck ... then it's probably a duck,' he said in Monday's video. 'They broke the law.'

*Creamer, whose wife is Illinois Democratic congresswoman Jan Schakowsky, has visited the Obama White House 342 times, according to official records. He met with the president at least once in the Oval Office, despite his criminal conviction for bank fraud. *




+7
Robert Creamer, a convicted fraudster, is married to Illinois Democratic Rep. Jan Schakowsky




+7
Creamer's Oval Office visit and others in the West Wing and the White House residence – 342 in all – are chronicled in the Obama administration's own official visitor logs

*When the undercover interviewer says, 'So it's her. Wow,' Creamer lets the cat out of the bag and adds: 'Don't repeat that to anybody.'

'She really wanted this duck figure doing this stuff,' he says.*

Creamer says the original plan was to have an Uncle Sam-costumed man instead of the duck, baiting Trump to release his personal income tax returns.

That costume would have been far easier to buy and license, since the Walt Disney Company owns the rights to the Donald Duck character.

Hillary For America Deputy Communications Director Christina Reynolds called Creamer personally to relay the message from the Democratic presidential nominee, he declares on tape.

'Christina Reynolds calls,' he says, 'saying, "I have good news and bad news. The good news is the candidate would like to have a mascot following around ... Trump. But the bad news is she wants it to be Donald Duck."

'My answer is, "Christine, if the future president wants ducks, we will put ducks on the ground,' he boasts.




+7
Hillary Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook insisted on Sunday that Creamer and his underlings have never had any contact with the campaign, something that Creamer's hidden-camera confession now disputes


@Nilgiri @T-72
@RabzonKhan @C130

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## CorporateAffairs

Trump can ONLY win if there is a BREXIT style polling in the USA!

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## Peaceful Civilian

CorporateAffairs said:


> Trump can ONLY win if there is a BREXIT style polling in the USA!


Trump is still lucky he is facing fragile opponent like henry clinton. Otherwise Trump was bound to lose with heavy margin.

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## Desert Fox

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Trump is still lucky he is facing fragile opponent like henry clinton. Otherwise Trump was bound to lose with heavy margin.


The Democrats f*cked themselves over when they cheated Bernie in the primaries and chose Hillary instead (the special interest groups like the NeoCons and Corporate Lobbyists didn't like Bernie's rhetoric not to mention he wasn't on their payrole like Hillary).

Now they're trying to cheat Trump by rigging the elections and polls in Hillary's favor because Trump isn't on their payrole either and doesn't want to tow their line for a potential war against Russia which is why the corporate Media is doing everything to portray Trump as a Russian agent  .


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## Peaceful Civilian

Desert Fox said:


> Media is doing everything to portray Trump as a Russian agent  .


Because, U.S.A feels, It is not in the interest of United states to elect trump as president. CIA and other security agencies has also warned about possible unrest in america due to his mentality against minorities. U.S.A will do, whatever in his interest. It is already cleared that Trump not fits in the interest of America.

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## Nilgiri

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Trump is still lucky he is facing fragile opponent like henry clinton. Otherwise Trump was bound to lose with heavy margin.



Don't underestimate the "we will vote for Hillary just because she is a woman" vote. Its why she has been pushed by the establishment even though she has numerous flaws (and why they rigged against Bernie winning the primary too).

Same exact reason they pushed Obama....the "we will vote Obama just because he is black" vote.

Democrat policy is to always cover one major base and then split everything else up as much as possible with gimmicks and typical political talk using the MSM....and rigging where needed.

No politician from the establishment is genuinely interested in fixing the problems, given the ones that made those problems are the biggest promoters of such and are the ones funding these politicians in the first place.

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## Desert Fox

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Because, U.S.A feels, It is not in the interest of United states to elect trump as president. CIA and other security agencies has also warned about possible unrest in america due to his mentality against minorities. U.S.A will do, whatever in his interest. It is already cleared that Trump not fits in the interest of America.



Or is that what you feel? Do you speak for Americans?

Most Americans don't support Hillary. And the only people trying to prevent Trump from getting elected are the corrupt elites.


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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> Hillary Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook


This guy looks like a sleazeball.

Kaine is creepy as hell too, no wonder only 30 people showed up for his event.

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## flamer84

Desert Fox said:


> Or is that what you feel? Do you speak for Americans?
> 
> Most Americans don't support Hillary. And the only people trying to prevent Trump from getting elected are the corrupt elites.




Trump has no chance,I don't know why you guys even hope.


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## T-72

flamer84 said:


> Trump has no chance,I don't know why you guys even hope.


what do you base that on ?

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## flamer84

T-72 said:


> what do you base that on ?



The guy's an idiot,he's disliked by the minorities,women and he's only lucky,like @Peaceful Civilian said,that he has Hillary for an opponent so he's still in the "aproximative" race.But,he's done for.


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## T-72

Nilgiri said:


> the "we will vote for Hillary just because she is a woman" vote.


about 40 years too late for that in a place like the US, Barack Obama being the first black president was a lot different to her situation, and I think the campaign realizes that, they're not pushing the 'glass ceiling' thing too much because it just wouldn't fly, and certainly not get the same mileage as they got with the first black president.



flamer84 said:


> The guy's an idiot,he's disliked by the minorities,women and he's only lucky,like @Peaceful Civilian said,that he has Hillary for an opponent so he's still in the "aproximative" race.But,he's done for.


He destroyed 16 other highly qualified career politicians and a brain surgeon to win the nomination, an idiot he's not, he is a bit of a pottymouth though. 

and he's not done for, not even close, 2 weeks is an eternity for events like this.

you should consider joining us on the international Trump train here on PDF, 2 Indians, a Pakistani and a Romanian, it'll be fun

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## flamer84

T-72 said:


> you should consider joining us on the international Trump train here on PDF, 2 Indians, a Pakistani and a Romanian, it'll be fun



Hillary is better for Romania 





That if we don't die in a nuclear apocalypse


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## Nilgiri

T-72 said:


> about 40 years too late for that in a place like the US, Barack Obama being the first black president was a lot different to her situation, and I think the campaign realizes that, they're not pushing the 'glass ceiling' thing too much because it just wouldn't fly, and certainly not get the same mileage as they got with the first black president.



Guess we will see come Nov 8th. Florida is looking good for a Trump win in the early voting trends right now. So I am hopeful. He will need to keep every red state from 2012 red and add NC, ohio, iowa and I think colorado too....or pull off at least one big upset in a blue state.

This is why even minute amount of rigging by democrats will have a huge blowback given the swing states sensitivity/importance ratio.

BTW heres an interesting read for everyone:

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/152293480726/the-bully-party

*The Bully Party*

I’ve been trying to figure out what common trait binds Clinton supporters together. As far as I can tell, the most unifying characteristic is a willingness to bully in all its forms.

If you have a Trump sign in your lawn, they will steal it.

If you have a Trump bumper sticker, they will deface your car.

if you speak of Trump at work you could get fired.

On social media, almost every message I get from a Clinton supporter is a bullying type of message. They insult. They try to shame. They label. And obviously they threaten my livelihood.

We know from Project Veritas that Clinton supporters tried to incite violence at Trump rallies. The media downplays it.

We also know Clinton’s side hired paid trolls to bully online. You don’t hear much about that.

Yesterday, by no coincidence, Huffington Post, Salon, and Daily Kos all published similar-sounding hit pieces on me, presumably to lower my influence. (That reason, plus jealousy, are the only reasons writers write about other writers.)

Joe Biden said he wanted to take Trump behind the bleachers and beat him up. No one on Clinton’s side disavowed that call to violence because, I assume, they consider it justified hyperbole.

Team Clinton has succeeded in perpetuating one of the greatest evils I have seen in my lifetime. Her side has branded Trump supporters (40%+ of voters) as Nazis, sexists, homophobes, racists, and a few other fighting words. Their argument is built on confirmation bias and persuasion. But facts don’t matter because facts never matter in politics. What matters is that Clinton’s framing of Trump provides moral cover for any bullying behavior online or in person. No one can be a bad person for opposing Hitler, right?

Some Trump supporters online have suggested that people who intend to vote for Trump should wear their Trump hats on election day. That is a dangerous idea, and I strongly discourage it. There would be riots in the streets because we already know the bullies would attack. But on election day, inviting those attacks is an extra-dangerous idea. Violence is bad on any day, but on election day, Republicans are far more likely to unholster in an effort to protect their voting rights. Things will get wet fast.

Yes, yes, I realize Trump supporters say bad things about Clinton supporters too. I don’t defend the bad apples on either side. I’ll just point out that Trump’s message is about uniting all Americans under one flag. The Clinton message is that some Americans are good people and the other 40% are some form of deplorables, deserving of shame, vandalism, punishing taxation, and violence. She has literally turned Americans on each other. It is hard for me to imagine a worse thing for a presidential candidate to do.

I’ll say that again.

As far as I can tell, the worst thing a presidential candidate can do is turn Americans against each other. Clinton is doing that, intentionally.

Intentionally.

As I often say, I don’t know who has the best policies. I don’t know the best way to fight ISIS and I don’t know how to fix healthcare or trade deals. I don’t know which tax policies are best to lift the economy. I don’t know the best way to handle any of that stuff. (And neither do you.) But I do have a bad reaction to bullies. And I’ve reached my limit.

I hope you have too. Therefore…

I endorse Donald Trump for President of the United States because I oppose bullying in all its forms.

I don’t defend Trump’s personal life. Neither Trump nor Clinton are role models for our children. Let’s call that a tie, at worst.

The bullies are welcome to drown in their own bile while those of us who want a better world do what we’ve been doing for hundreds of years: Work to make it better while others complain about how we’re doing it.

Today I put Trump’s odds of winning in a landslide back to 98%. Remember, I told you a few weeks ago that Trump couldn’t win unless “something changed.”

Something just changed.

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## T-72

flamer84 said:


> Hillary is better for Romania
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That if we don't die in a nuclear apocalypse


She'd be better for India too, but I'm not watching this from that perspective. She's a dangerous neocon hawk, her rhetoric on Russia and Putin is scary, her ideas about Syria are deranged (pro jihadist), watch her make a bigger mess in the middle east than Bush and Obama combined if she gets in. 

The Donald is better for the world, and as strange as it may sound, he's actually the peace candidate here.

#Trumpthatbitch

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## RabzonKhan

*Rep. McCaul: I told Trump Russia was behind the hacks, but he thinks there's no proof*

By BRENT GRIFFITHS 10/25/16

A top Republican on national security said he advised Donald Trump that Russia was using hacked information to influence the election process, but the GOP presidential nominee didn't appear to believe him.

“I think he has in his mind that there’s not the proof,” House Homeland Security Chairman Mike McCaul said Tuesday during a Texas Tribune event in Austin. *"Now he hasn't had the briefing I had, but I made it clear that in my judgment it was a nation-state."*

*McCaul, a Trump supporter, told Tribune CEO Evan Smith that he was brought in to brief Trump on national security after the first presidential debate — a topic the Texas Republican conceded is “not [Trump’s] strength.”*

Despite the coaching from the congressman, Trump stated during the final presidential debate last week that the U.S. has no idea who is behind hacks of the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta’s emails. The material was released by WikiLeaks.

“She has no idea whether it is Russia, China or anybody else,” Trump said during the debate at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. “You have no idea. Our country has no idea.”

*As Clinton pointed out, the Department of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence released a joint statement directly blaming Russia earlier this month.*

Clinton senior national spokesperson Glen Caplin called Trump's refusal to heed McCaul's advice "troubling."

*"Trump's actions as Putin's puppet have gone from bizarre to disqualifying," Caplin said in a statement. Link*







Funny, president Obama reads a mean tweet by Trump, it's part of a segment for Jimmy Kimmel live show.

"President Obama will go down as perhaps the worst president in the history of the United States. Exclamation point. @realDonaldTrump,"

"Well, realDonaldTrump, at least I will go down as a president," Obama said, 










Darmashkian said:


> Micheal Moore(a liberal,leftwing documentary maker) gets why Trump could win
> 
> @T-72 @RabzonKhan


Michael Moore is a left wing nutcase, and a total waste of time. You see, my friend, I'm an Independent because I cannot tolerate the far left of the Democratic Party and the far right (racists) of the Republican Party. I'll vote for anyone who I think is good for America and I don't care if he/she is a Republican or a Democrat. But unfortunately this time we do not have good choices. Hillary is not my ideal candidate, but she is far better than Trump, who I believe is a total nutcase and not a presidential material.

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## gambit

Desert Fox said:


> But does that still negate the fact that US intel was wrong? Which is my point.


And your point is dishonestly incomplete.



Desert Fox said:


> This whole claim that Russia hacked into emails is based on no concrete evidence. *Just another way for the Dems to shift attention away from their corruption (thankfully nobody's buying it despite how hard the Media is pushing this narrative).*


The greatest thing about electronics mischief is that it can be done remotely and evidences can be, and often are, quickly erased.

According to Wells Fargo, it has, rounded figure, 70 million customers. If I physically go to each of those 70 million customers...Never mind...The idea is simply absurd in its face, correct ? But what if I can electronically access 10 million customer accounts and steal just one dollar from each ? Or how about just 5 million accounts and steal just one dollar from each ?

In a physical burglary, I would not be able to take everything valuable but only what I can physically carry away with me. But in an electronic burglary, I can take as much as I want. With one million dollars, I can deposit into an interest bearing account for my retirement, all the while keep working at my daily job, confident that my retirement is secured. Wait a few months or even a couple yrs, then repeat the theft. My retirement is secured with the last theft, now it is time for my fun while am still young and able. No need for a Ferrari, just a comfortable Beemer or even Merc will do. No need for the Bahamas where Key West will be just as good. Do you see my point ?

Iraq's WMD required physical presence to develop and inevitably produced physical evidences that stayed behind when the program's owners fled, of which all the major nuclear powers had access to and agreed upon as to what the evidences meant as interpreted.

There is no credible comparison between the intelligence gathering of Iraq's WMD and the electronic break-in of the US electoral system.

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## RabzonKhan

*



*


*Florida spirals away from Trump

With the GOP nominee trailing in poll after poll and lacking a ground game, a low turnout may be Trump's only hope of carrying the state.*

By Marc Caputo 10/25/16

From polling to early voting trends to TV ad spending to ground game, Donald Trump’s Florida fortunes are beginning to look so bleak that some Republicans are steeling themselves for what could be the equivalent of a “landslide” loss in the nation’s biggest battleground state.

*Trump has trailed Hillary Clinton in 10 of the 11 public polls conducted in October. According to POLITICO’s Battleground States polling average, Clinton has a 3.4-point lead. Even private surveys conducted by Republican-leaning groups show Trump’s in trouble in Florida, where a loss would end his White House hopes.*

*“On the presidential race we’ve found Clinton with a consistent 3% - 5% lead in surveys that attempt to reflect Florida’s actual electorate,” Ryan D. Tyson, vice president of political operations for the Associated Industries of Florida business group, wrote in a confidential memo emailed to his conservative-leaning members this weekend and obtained by POLITICO.*

*Though Clinton’s lead is “within the margin of error for this survey, we would suggest that 3% really isn’t as close as it may seem in the state of Florida,” Tyson wrote, estimating a turnout of as much as 71 percent, or as many as 9.2 million Florida voters overall. If that happens and the polling margins hold, Clinton’s raw vote lead over Trump could end up being 275,000 to 460,000 votes.*

*“This is in all reality a landslide in our great state,” Tyson wrote, echoing the concerns of numerous Florida Republican insiders and experts. “Based on his consistent failure to improve his standing with non-white voters, voters under 50 and females, it seems fairly obvious to us that Mr. Trump’s only hope left in Florida is a low turnout.*”

Trump has reacted to the steady drip of troubling numbers by launching an unprecedented seven-city Florida tour this week while simultaneously denying the data dispiriting many in his party.

“We are winning and the press is refusing to report it. Don't let them fool you- get out and vote! #DrainTheSwamp on November 8th!” Trump wrote on his Twitter account Monday morning before an event with farmers near West Palm Beach, where he repeated to the crowd, “I believe we are actually winning.”

*Hours earlier, Trump took to Twitter to say that “the Dems are making up phony polls in order to suppress” his vote share. *

But polls are just one reason Florida Republicans are alarmed. Mail-in absentee ballot voting was once a Republican strength thanks to the party’s organization and years of conditioning its members to vote by mail. But this year, Democrats are showing signs of catching up.

As of Monday morning, Florida Republicans had cast fewer than 42 percent of the more than 1.2 million absentee ballots. Democrats had cast 40 percent. Though that 1.7 percentage point lead is in the GOP’s favor, it’s greatly reduced since the same period in 2012, when Republican ballots outpaced Democrats’ by 5 points.

Still, Trump, during a Sunday stop near Naples, told the crowd that the “numbers are looking phenomenal in Florida.”

The early votes have not been officially tallied, but campaigns and operatives use the raw return numbers to measure a campaign’s health. Generally, the top-of-the-ticket candidate whose party members cast more ballots before Election Day is favored to win the election.

Florida’s pre-Election Day ballot counts will grow ever bigger now that in-person early voting began Monday in a majority of the state's major counties. When it comes to in-person early voting, Democrats tend to outperform Republicans, but that doesn't usually happen until after a full weekend of early voting, particularly after the Sunday “Souls to the Polls” events, in which African-Americans cast ballots in person after church. So, if a Democratic advantage appears, it might not happen until Halloween.

At one point last week, Democrats briefly overtook Republicans in absentee ballots cast, marking the first time Democrats have ever caught Republicans in pre-Election Day ballots before in-person early voting begins.

But the lead didn’t last. By that point, the Trump campaign had realized it wasn’t actively calling and mailing absentee ballot voters to get them to mail their votes in. The campaign quickly instituted what’s called a “chase” program to pressure voters to fill out their ballots and send them in.

*Little glitches like that make longtime Trump supporter and past political adviser Roger Stone, who lives in Florida, fret. He blamed most of the campaign problems on the Trump campaign leadership in New York. *He said the campaign didn’t give enough money and flexibility to its former Florida director Karen Giorno — who was moved in a campaign shakeup — or to its current Florida campaign chief, Susie Wiles, who managed Gov. Rick Scott’s 2010 campaign.

“She knows how to carry the state. But they never gave her the resources to do so,” Stone said. “Where, for instance, were the Spanish-language ads touting Trump’s economic message?”

*Many Republicans wondered where Trump’s ads were at all in Florida. Since July, Clinton and her backers have spent and committed $51 million in TV ads in Florida. But Trump and his campaign have invested just $30 million — with $20 million of that spent and committed just since the beginning of this month. That’s still $2 million less in October than Clinton’s side.*

Part of the ad disparity is rooted in Trump’s refusal to fundraise as aggressively as Mitt Romney in 2012.

Wiles wouldn’t comment on the campaign’s finances or its strategy. But, she said, the big and energetic crowds greeting Trump are a sign that there’s more excitement for the Republican candidate than for Clinton, who often speaks in relatively small and tame venues.

"Enthusiasm counts,” Wiles said. “We have it. She doesn’t.”

With Trump’s seven-city whirlwind Florida tour, Republicans are hoping he can persuade more Republicans than ever to vote early or by absentee ballot, thereby relieving the GOP of the potential pressure to have to turn out more Election Day voters. *But Trump isn’t operating in a vacuum: Clinton; her running mate, Tim Kaine; President Barack Obama; and even singer Jennifer Lopez are spearheading early vote rallies this week as both campaigns scour the state.*

Democrats also question the conventional wisdom about whether there’s an enthusiasm gap between Clinton and Trump. Two new national polls, for instance, indicate the share of Clinton supporters who say they’re voting for her and not just against Trump has increased faster for her than for him.

Florida Democrats also point to the voter-registration rolls as a sign of greater support for their candidate, if not their party.

*“Democrats have added nearly 692,000 new voters to the rolls since 2012 versus 593,000 Republicans — and the trends continue to go upward in our favor,” Clinton’s Florida director, Simone Ward, wrote in a Monday memo that detailed the campaign’s ground game for turning out voters.*

Still, because more conservative Republican-voting Democrats left the party for the GOP and because Democrats lost more elderly and young voters overall than Republicans, the state GOP has narrowed the bottom-line registration gap with Democrats in Florida over the past four years. *Of the nearly 12.7 million active registered voters in the state, 38 percent are Democrats, 36 percent Republicans and the balance are independent voters, with the majority of them registering as having no party affiliation.*

*Another change since 2012: Florida’s voter rolls have become less white by 3 percentage points, an advantage for Democrats, who enjoy higher rates of minority support than Republicans.*

*When the entire picture of the election is assembled, Republicans aren’t thrilled with what they see.*

"While I’m still very confident in our party’s ability in the vote-by-mail universe, it is clear our colleagues on the other side have growing success,” said Brian Hughes, a Florida Republican consultant and former spokesman for the state party and Gov. Scott.

The absentee vote, Hughes said, is “where we built up leads. It took them several cycles, and now they chase [absentee ballots] the way we do. Add that to the demographic advantages [for Democrats] as the state changes, and it’s not good news.”

One bright spot for Florida Republicans: Sen. Marco Rubio, who leads Congressman Patrick Murphy by 5 points in AIF polls and has bested the Democrat in more than two dozen other surveys. But increasingly, Rubio’s team and supporters are nervous as Trump’s fortunes appear to wane. They fear that if Trump loses by 5 points, it could signify a Democratic blue wave that swamps Rubio.

“This is the nightmare scenario we’ve all worried about,” said one top Rubio backer who didn’t want to go on record for fear of “poking the Trump people in the eye.”

A Rubio loss would seriously endanger his political career. It would mark his second defeat in a year, having lost the state GOP presidential primary to Trump. “Trump could be directly responsible for one Rubio loss and indirectly responsible for the other,” the Rubio backer said.

The concern isn’t limited to Rubio. In tracking whether Florida voters prefer a generic Republican or Democrat, AIF found that “Republicans have taken a hit in the generic ballot since the Access Hollywood tapes were released on Friday October 7. In our initial track it was Republicans +4%. In this week’s track they have dropped -5% to Democrats +1%.”

For Florida Republicans, the "Access Hollywood" controversy — in which Trump’s sexually aggressive comments to host Billy Bush in 2005 were caught on tape and released only this month — drips with irony. Bush, after all, is cousin to former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, who was ridiculed by Trump and who was once seen as the one Republican with enough super PAC firepower to dismantle the GOP front-runner in the presidential primary.

“Whoever would’ve thought that the Bush who brought down Donald would be Billy Bush?” said a longtime supporter of the former governor who is working with Republican candidates in the state. “If there’s a real ground game for Trump, we’re not seeing it.”


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## Desert Fox

flamer84 said:


> Trump has no chance,I don't know why you guys even hope.



If only I could get a dollar every time someone said that, I'd be a millionaire by now.

According to many political analysts, Trump should have dropped out of the race ten months ago. But he's stumped every single one of his opponents, who mind you, weren't some inexperienced school boys but rather very hardened career politicians with previous and current positions in the government.

Only difference between them and Trump: Trump listens to the people, while they listen to their elitist donors.

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## flamer84

Desert Fox said:


> If only I could get a dollar every time someone said that, I'd be a millionaire by now.
> 
> According to many political analysts, Trump should have dropped out of the race ten months ago. But he's stumped every single one of his opponents, who mind you, weren't some inexperienced school boys but rather very hardened career politicians with previous and current positions in the government.
> 
> Only difference between them and Trump: Trump listens to the people, while they listen to their elitist donors.




I'll leave PDF if he becomes president.


----------



## Desert Fox

T-72 said:


> This guy looks like a sleazeball.
> 
> Kaine is creepy as hell too, no wonder only 30 people showed up for his event.



The entire Clinton camp is a giant sleazeball.

Kaine has identity issues I think. He referred to himself has Hillary's "right hand person" instead of "right hand man". Either that or he's just extremely politically correct that he's too afraid to mention his own gender .

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## Desert Fox

gambit said:


> And your point is dishonestly incomplete.
> 
> 
> The greatest thing about electronics mischief is that it can be done remotely and evidences can be, and often are, quickly erased.
> 
> According to Wells Fargo, it has, rounded figure, 70 million customers. If I physically go to each of those 70 million customers...Never mind...The idea is simply absurd in its face, correct ? But what if I can electronically access 10 million customer accounts and steal just one dollar from each ? Or how about just 5 million accounts and steal just one dollar from each ?
> 
> In a physical burglary, I would not be able to take everything valuable but only what I can physically carry away with me. But in an electronic burglary, I can take as much as I want. With one million dollars, I can deposit into an interest bearing account for my retirement, all the while keep working at my daily job, confident that my retirement is secured. Wait a few months or even a couple yrs, then repeat the theft. My retirement is secured with the last theft, now it is time for my fun while am still young and able. No need for a Ferrari, just a comfortable Beemer or even Merc will do. No need for the Bahamas where Key West will be just as good. Do you see my point ?
> 
> Iraq's WMD required physical presence to develop and inevitably produced physical evidences that stayed behind when the program's owners fled, of which all the major nuclear powers had access to and agreed upon as to what the evidences meant as interpreted.
> 
> There is no credible comparison between the intelligence gathering of Iraq's WMD and the electronic break-in of the US electoral system.



Okay, point taken. It was a bad comparison.


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## cloud4000

Desert Fox said:


> Only difference between them and Trump: Trump listens to the people, while they listen to their elitist donors.



If Trumps draws his ideas by listening to the "people" then the "people" are truly a stupid lot.

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## Nilgiri

From reddit:

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/31077#efmAABABT

In early March 2015 Barack Obama made a statement that he only learned about Hillary's private email use from news reports at the same time everyone else learned of them. That immediately caused concern inside the Hillary campaign.

*From:* Josh Schwerin <joshschwerin@gmail.com>
*Date:* March 7, 2015 at 6:33:44 PM EST
*Subject:* *POTUS on HRC emails*

Jen you probably have more on this but it looks like POTUS just said he
found out HRC was using her personal email when he saw it in the news.

...

From:cheryl.mills@gmail.com
To: john.podesta@gmail.com 
Date: 2015-03-07 21:41
Subject: Fwd: POTUS on HRC emails

we need to clean this up - he has emails from her - they do not say state.gov

They immediately knew that Obama lied and they will have to clean up the lie somehow.

To put this in context, about the "clean this up" part: Paul Combetta had a phone conversation with Cheryl Mills, the author of the above email. After this conversation took place Paul Combetta took it upon himself to use BleachBit and wipe out the emails in question, permanently deleting them. Including every single email between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. As the result of this action by Combetta after the conversation with Cheryl Mills the issue of President Obama's emails were indeed "cleaned up". The contents of those emails are not known to this day, two weeks before the election, as a result of Combetta's deletion after the conversation with Cheryl Mills. Quote from an old article regarding this topic:

http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/23/t...he-people-covering-for-hillary/#ixzz4O6sSBNMQ

Combetta used a software program called BleachBit to delete the backups between March 25-31, 2015. The deletion occurred just before Combetta took part in a conference call with Clinton’s lawyers, including Mills and Samuelson.

At the time all of the emails were under Congressional Subpoena to be preserved. The subpoena was issued on March 4 2015: The Benghazi committee issues a subpoena requiring Clinton to preserve all emails from her private server.

It is interesting to note, that FBI Director James Comey said in a July 2016 statement that the FBI investigation"found no evidence that any of the additional work-related emails were intentionally deleted in an effort to conceal them."

Now it may just be me, but "clean this up" sounds awfully close to "conceal them", when talking about emails.

----------------------------------

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/30774

This email is on the same day the NYT broke the story of the server.

Seems like some people in the inner circle like Neera Tanden did not know about everything the NYT revealed and some of it caught them by surprise.

On Mar 2, 2015:

Neera Tanden wrote:
This is a cheryl special. Know you love her, but this stuff is like her Achilles heal. Or kryptonite. she just can't say no to this ****.

John Podesta:
Unbelievable.

Neera Tanden:
i guess I know the answer they wanted to get away with it

Neera Tanden on 2 Mar 2015 19:40
a thought that I'm sure has occurred to you hours ago: the archives request them and she complies immediately (avoids subpeonas) don't yell at me.

This email went out two days before subpoenas were issued for the emails.


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## Desert Fox

flamer84 said:


> I'll leave PDF if he becomes president.



Lol, don't be so dramatic bro. I'm sure you'll end up loving a president Trump administration. Besides, it'd be a shame if PDF lost its only Romanian member.

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## Desert Fox

cloud4000 said:


> If Trumps draws his ideas by listening to the "people" then the "people" are truly a stupid lot.



Excellent analysis! @T-72

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## flamer84

Desert Fox said:


> Lol, don't be so dramatic bro. I'm sure you'll end up loving a president Trump administration. Besides, it'd be a shame if PDF lost its only Romanian member.




Well...there's @Declein to....He isn't much around though

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## Desert Fox

flamer84 said:


> Well...there's @Declein to....He isn't much around though



Wasn't aware we had another Romanian.


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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> From reddit:
> 
> https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/31077#efmAABABT
> 
> In early March 2015 Barack Obama made a statement that he only learned about Hillary's private email use from news reports at the same time everyone else learned of them. That immediately caused concern inside the Hillary campaign.
> 
> *From:* Josh Schwerin <joshschwerin@gmail.com>
> *Date:* March 7, 2015 at 6:33:44 PM EST
> *Subject:* *POTUS on HRC emails*
> 
> Jen you probably have more on this but it looks like POTUS just said he
> found out HRC was using her personal email when he saw it in the news.
> 
> ...
> 
> From:cheryl.mills@gmail.com
> To: john.podesta@gmail.com
> Date: 2015-03-07 21:41
> Subject: Fwd: POTUS on HRC emails
> 
> we need to clean this up - he has emails from her - they do not say state.gov
> 
> They immediately knew that Obama lied and they will have to clean up the lie somehow.
> 
> To put this in context, about the "clean this up" part: Paul Combetta had a phone conversation with Cheryl Mills, the author of the above email. After this conversation took place Paul Combetta took it upon himself to use BleachBit and wipe out the emails in question, permanently deleting them. Including every single email between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. As the result of this action by Combetta after the conversation with Cheryl Mills the issue of President Obama's emails were indeed "cleaned up". The contents of those emails are not known to this day, two weeks before the election, as a result of Combetta's deletion after the conversation with Cheryl Mills. Quote from an old article regarding this topic:
> 
> http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/23/t...he-people-covering-for-hillary/#ixzz4O6sSBNMQ
> 
> Combetta used a software program called BleachBit to delete the backups between March 25-31, 2015. The deletion occurred just before Combetta took part in a conference call with Clinton’s lawyers, including Mills and Samuelson.
> 
> At the time all of the emails were under Congressional Subpoena to be preserved. The subpoena was issued on March 4 2015: The Benghazi committee issues a subpoena requiring Clinton to preserve all emails from her private server.
> 
> It is interesting to note, that FBI Director James Comey said in a July 2016 statement that the FBI investigation"found no evidence that any of the additional work-related emails were intentionally deleted in an effort to conceal them."
> 
> Now it may just be me, but "clean this up" sounds awfully close to "conceal them", when talking about emails.
> 
> ----------------------------------
> 
> https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/30774
> 
> This email is on the same day the NYT broke the story of the server.
> 
> Seems like some people in the inner circle like Neera Tanden did not know about everything the NYT revealed and some of it caught them by surprise.
> 
> On Mar 2, 2015:
> 
> Neera Tanden wrote:
> This is a cheryl special. Know you love her, but this stuff is like her Achilles heal. Or kryptonite. she just can't say no to this ****.
> 
> John Podesta:
> Unbelievable.
> 
> Neera Tanden:
> i guess I know the answer they wanted to get away with it
> 
> Neera Tanden on 2 Mar 2015 19:40
> a thought that I'm sure has occurred to you hours ago: the archives request them and she complies immediately (avoids subpeonas) don't yell at me.
> 
> This email went out two days before subpoenas were issued for the emails.


This whole thing is like an endless pit of corruption that keeps giving. And this is just the tip of the ice berg.

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> This whole thing is like an endless pit of corruption that keeps giving. And this is just the tip of the ice berg.



If Hillary comes to power, I think there is no parallel to the amount of sleaze the public knows about from day one. It should mark for a very "interesting" first year.

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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> If Hillary comes to power, I think there is no parallel to the amount of sleaze the public knows about from day one. It should mark for a very "interesting" first year.



I don't think we'll survive her first 100 days in office, let alone a year.

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## Penguin

Nilgiri said:


> From reddit:
> 
> https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/31077#efmAABABT
> 
> In early March 2015 Barack Obama made a statement that he only learned about Hillary's private email use from news reports at the same time everyone else learned of them. That immediately caused concern inside the Hillary campaign.
> 
> *From:* Josh Schwerin <joshschwerin@gmail.com>
> *Date:* March 7, 2015 at 6:33:44 PM EST
> *Subject:* *POTUS on HRC emails*
> 
> Jen you probably have more on this but it looks like POTUS just said he
> found out HRC was using her personal email when he saw it in the news.
> 
> ...
> 
> From:cheryl.mills@gmail.com
> To: john.podesta@gmail.com
> Date: 2015-03-07 21:41
> Subject: Fwd: POTUS on HRC emails
> 
> we need to clean this up - he has emails from her - they do not say state.gov
> 
> They immediately knew that Obama lied and they will have to clean up the lie somehow..


If so, she/they protected POTUS i.e. did her job


----------



## LA se Karachi

gambit said:


> The point here is that when it comes issues that have great variations in perspectives and interpretations, such as ideologies, politics, and assorted 'soft sciences', dangers increases when we try to impose a 'universal' standard and assign an enforcement authority.




My point was only that the media is not checked by any entity, in any way. Even when they deliberately mislead people.



gambit said:


> Just as the people get the politicians they deserve, so do the people get the kind of media they deserve. In a functional democracy like ours, the people have no one to blame but themselves if they do not perform due diligence and fact check the media, the same media that their ancestors fought to make free from government restraints and that the people insisted today, even to the point of bearing arms, to remain so. What was the old Latin saying: " Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? " Who guards the guardians ? The answer is the people.
> 
> I feel that strongly about my freedom to knowledge and information that the idea is permanently etched on my body.




I couldn't agree more. But that's my point, though. The media will tell people what they want to hear. They are financially incentivized to do whatever will bring them the highest ratings, and generate the most revenue.This is their goal. Not to be as fair, accurate, thorough, and responsible as possible. They are biased _because_ of the people. And if the people are unwilling to demand a fair and accurate media, or aren't willing vote with their remotes and mouses and stop watching and reading biased and inaccurate media, little can be done about it.



gambit said:


> We fought to keep the media free because we are willing to take the media at its words that it will be 'fair and balanced', to quote Fox News of itself again. My point was that if a reporter like Halperin, regardless of his intelligence or biases, is willing to make a public declaration as to why he does not vote, even though the chance exist that he could be lying about it, we should take Halperin and the media at their words and hold them against what they publicly claimed to be.




Agreed. But again, what do you propose we do if most people are unwilling to demand that from the media, or don't keep up with current events at all?


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## T-72

*Donald Trump Rally in Sanford, FL 10/25/16 *






*Donald Trump Rally in Tallahassee, FL 10/25/16 
*

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## gambit

LA se Karachi said:


> My point was only that the media is not checked by any entity, in any way. Even when they deliberately mislead people.
> 
> Agreed. But again, *what do you propose we do if most people are unwilling to demand that from the media, or don't keep up with current events at all?*


We suffer because of our own complicity. Am not being melodramatic here. I am a product of the Cold War. I fled communism in 1975. Then once I got my citizenship, I did my part in being a member of the NATO line. I have literally touched live nuclear weapons as part of a Victor Alert crew. I played tourist in East Berlin when it existed. I do not want the government to be the final arbiter of what I may read or express.

It is only when we reach bottom that we realize how wrong we have been. The American people know how dishonest and corrupt their media, reaching the bottom is when the media no longer have any shame and that point is not yet here. As a whole, the American people is generous, or too generous in my opinion, with forgiveness. We have to suffer the arrogance of the American media all the way until the bottom.

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## T-72

gambit said:


> I have literally touched live nuclear weapons as part of a Victor Alert crew.


awesome, and were you ever tasked with deploying/flown with one ? AGM/69-SRAM ? 



gambit said:


> I played tourist in East Berlin when it existed.








tell us moar !


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## KAL-EL

Desert Fox said:


> Lol, don't be so dramatic bro. I'm sure you'll end up loving a president Trump administration. *Besides, it'd be a shame if PDF lost its only Romanian member*.



Indeed... we wouldn't want to lose him because he's the lone representative here from a country that was once home to the world's most powerful being.

A mighty being that to this modern-day, still might roam the Earth.

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## gambit

T-72 said:


> awesome, and were you ever tasked with deploying/flown with one ? AGM/69-SRAM ?


Victor Alert was basically Alert 60, meaning 60 minutes away from your jet. VA jets are loaded with two B61 free fall nuclear bombs and two 600 gallons external fuel tanks.

http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2011/March 2011/0311victor.aspx

The VA jets are in specially designated hardened aircraft shelters (HAS) assigned to VA alert status. VA crews can go anywhere on base as long as they are in duty uniform and can get to their jets in one hr or less. In heightened alert status, that time could be shortened to 15 minutes if necessary. During my time at RAF Upper Heyford, we never had to actually launched, but there were several times when we were restricted to being around the jets.


T-72 said:


> tell us moar !


It sounds 'scarier' than it actually was. Berlin, as a whole city, was actually easier to access as a tourist destination than people thought in light of the Cold War. But the tours were very controlled. We were escorted everywhere. Nevertheless, the closer to the West, the more lax the security measures and I actually had the chance to interact with some East Berliners. One was an attractive gal. She may have been a 'working girl', for all I know. Anyway, I was propositioned by a guy for my Levi's jeans. East Berliners wanted anything that was 'Western' and the more American it is, the more desirable.

What they said the about the differences between the two Berlins are true. The difference was not like day vs night. That is too much an exaggeration. But the differences, from the buildings to the people, were noticeable. West Berlin's atmosphere was more cheerful, for lack of a better word. East Berlin's attitude was more subdued, low keyed, and the people more reserved. There were less choices in shopping compared to West Berlin. There were no mistaking about that. Overall, the experience was eye opening. We were discouraged from taking pictures, otherwise I would have a lot of pictures to remember.

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## A_Poster

LA se Karachi said:


> I couldn't agree more. But that's my point, though. The media will tell people what they want to hear. They are financially incentivized to do whatever will bring them the highest ratings, and generate the most revenue.This is their goal. Not to be as fair, accurate, thorough, and responsible as possible. They are biased _because_ of the people. And if the people are unwilling to demand a fair and accurate media, or aren't willing vote with their remotes and mouses and stop watching and reading biased and inaccurate media, little can be done about it.




I think you are wrong on this count. I have not seen any news network make a profit or even break even from revenues ,subscription or advertising.All of them ,bar some alternate media houses, are dependent on some business-house or charity for writing off their losses. 

I think that this is the reason why there is uniformity in American media's content. They need to sing to the tune of their paymasters. This is a commonly observed phenomenon in India too, where most of media houses are part owned by a political party (congress) and interests aligned with that party. It is just that social media is a much bigger competitor of conventional media in India than it is in USA.

I would also like @gambit 's opinion on this as he too is a participant in this media debate.

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## maximuswarrior

forsigmar said:


> America totally screwed if Hillary becomes president . God help us if a we have a stroke patient in the white house. Special interests and Neocons will destroy the country.



You are screwed either way.

Some fools here think that Trump is their next messiah who only speaks the truth. They are wrong. Trump or Hillary won't make an iota of difference. A politician is just that. There are no good politicians.

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## KAL-EL

maximuswarrior said:


> You are screwed either way.
> 
> Some fools here think that Trump is their next messiah who only speaks the truth. They are wrong. Trump or Hillary won't make an iota of difference. A politician is just that. There are no good politicians.



Not really interested in voting for either of them quite frankly. And when I do walk into the voting booth, I'm going to write in my vote for Admiral William Adama.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Desert Fox said:


> Or is that what you feel?
> Most Americans don't support Hillary. And the only people trying to prevent Trump from getting elected are the corrupt elites.


Trump was popular before few months, but when his mentality exposed, his popularity is declining. Look at all recent surveys. And henry exposed his past when trump was found groping woman.


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## A_Poster

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Trump was popular before few months, but when his mentality is exposed, his popularity is declining. Look at all recent surveys. And henry exposed his past when trump was found groping woman.




Trump was Trump, and he was an even bigger boor few months ago than he is today. Any poll depicting him losing support on that count is obviously lying. There is a big chance that he didn't had too big a support to begin with. 

He may still lose, and I think he would lose, but the reason for that loss ,if happens, would be block voting by blacks,hispanics, and wimmins for Hillary. Hillary does not come out as a likable character. She has an aura of fakeness created by lot of scandal associated with her, and she has hitched he wagon to "Ze ebil males are oppressing wimmins" poll plank. And contrary to what talking heads believe; males despise feminists, and women who are in relationship and satisfied from it hate feminists too. Only people who love dykes are champagne liberals, lesbians, and miserable middle aged women with cropped hair who blame males for their lovelorn life.

Her being perceived as a feminists form a very big reason why males despise her.

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## Desert Fox

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Trump was popular before few months, but when his mentality exposed, his popularity is declining. Look at all recent surveys. And henry exposed his past when trump was found groping woman.


The surveys are over sampled in Hillary's favor since the media is heavily biased against Trump and is actively colluding with the Clinton campaign in an effort to demoralize Trump supporters. Regarding the whole dirty talk tape by Trump, nobody really cared about that. Little kids in America talk way worse than the things Trump said. It's not as if everyone but Trump is a saint.



KAL-EL said:


> Indeed... we wouldn't want to lose him because he's the lone representative here from a country that was once home to the world's most powerful being.
> 
> A mighty being that to this modern-day, still might roam the Earth.


Dracula?



T-72 said:


> you should consider joining us on the international Trump train here on PDF, 2 Indians, a Pakistani and a Romanian, it'll be fun


@flamer84 definitely bro, come join us.
_
_
_



_​

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## KAL-EL

@Desert Fox yes, the mighty being I was referring to was indeed Count Vlad Tepes Dracula.

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## RabzonKhan

Note, Hillary has a bigger lead (28%) over Trump than Obama had (19%) over Romney. 











*Hillary Clinton Expands Lead Among Younger Voters*

*Poll shows Democrat beating Donald Trump by 28 points among those aged 18 to 29*

By JANET HOOK
Oct. 26, 2016 

Hillary Clinton has expanded her lead over Republican rival Donald Trump to 28 percentage points among voters younger than 30, according to a new survey by the Harvard Institute of Politics that signals trouble ahead for Republicans with this crucial voting bloc.

The national survey, released Wednesday, found that Mrs. Clinton is backed by 49% of likely voters aged 18 to 29, compared with 21% for Mr. Trump, 14% for Libertarian Gary Johnson and 5% for Green Party candidate Jill Stein.

The poll suggests Mr. Trump could set back GOP efforts to improve its standing with millennials, a voting bloc that is about to surpass baby boomers as the largest generation of eligible voters. In Harvard’s October 2012 survey, GOP nominee Mitt Romney trailed President Barack Obama, who was a magnet for young voters, by just 19 points among those under 30, 55% to 36%.

John Della Volpe, polling director of the Harvard Institute of Politics, said Mrs. Clinton’s growing lead—up from 22 points in a July Harvard poll—was noteworthy because Mrs. Clinton has struggled to bring along millennials. During the Democratic primary campaign, Sen. Bernie Sanders was the prohibitive favorite among the group.

“She has had a very complicated relationship with this generation for eight years,” said Mr. Della Volpe, who believes Mrs. Clinton is reaping benefits from a concerted campaign effort to court them since the summer’s Democratic convention. “She understood the importance of this vote. If not for millennials, this would be a much closer race.”

Both candidates are viewed more negatively than positively, but Mrs. Clinton’s image has improved since July, while Mr. Trump’s stayed about the same. Among likely young voters, Mrs. Clinton is viewed favorably by 48% and unfavorably by 51%. For Mr. Trump, 22% are favorable and 76% unfavorable.

The poll found Mrs. Clinton’s dominance among young voters extended to all subgroups—besides Republicans—even among young white voters who in 2012 had favored Mr. Romney by 4 points. She also led Mr. Trump among young women and voters without a college degree by wider margins than Mr. Obama led Mr. Romney in 2012. However, her lead with young Hispanics is narrower than Mr. Obama’s, and among blacks, her lead is the same as his. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

Third Parties: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver


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## T-72

*Scott Adams' Blog*

Top Tech
Berkeley Start-ups

*Watch the Persuasion Battle*

If you want to watch the persuasion game-within-the-game, follow me on Twitter @ScottAdamsSays. Here’s the situation so you know what to look for.

1. Yesterday I announced my endorsement of Trump, primarily as a protest to the bullying culture of Clinton supporters. I don’t like bullies. And I don’t like that Clinton is turning citizens against each other. (My political preferences don’t align with any of the candidates.)

Yes, Trump is a bully, but he’s offering to provide that service on behalf of the country. When leaders do it, we call it leadership. (Think LBJ or Steve Jobs.) Trump isn’t encouraging his supporters to bully Clinton supporters. But Clinton has painted Trump and his supporters as Nazi-like deplorables, and that creates moral cover for the bullying you see all over the country against Trump supporters. It wouldn’t be a bad thing to bully a Nazi, would it? That’s the dangerous situation Clinton has created.

2. My anti-bullying message must have raised a flag somewhere in the Clinton campaign machinery. That means it hit a nerve and is seen as a persuasion reframing they don’t want to risk.

3. Huffington Post, Salon, Daily Kos and other liberal outlets “coincidentally” ran hit pieces on me on the same day. That’s a sign of media coordination with the Clinton campaign. (Or a big coincidence.)

4. Hordes of either paid or volunteer Twitter trolls descended on me with two specific types of attacks. The similarity of the attacks suggests central coordination. One attack involves insults about the Dilbert comic (an attack on my income) and the other is a coordinated attack to suggest I am literally insane or off my meds (to decrease my credibility).

You’re also supposed to think I’m crazy for seeing these “coincidences” as coordinated attacks. You’ll probably see this blog post retweeted as evidence of my further spiral into madness. The same happened when I noted that Twitter was shadowbanning me for talking about Trump. Shadowbanning is real, and well-documented in my case and others, but it sounds preposterous, so it is easy to frame me as crazy. Expect more of that.

The takeaway here is that my message about Clinton supporters being bullies is effective persuasion. Otherwise I would be ignored. This reframing is a kill shot because the bullies themselves are philosophically opposed to bullies. Once they realize they have been persuaded by Clinton’s campaign to _*become the thing they hate*_, the spell will be broken. And they won’t show up to vote.

The other plausible explanation for recent events is that I’m literally insane, and in a big way. You can be the judge of that.

I’ve never had this much fun in one year. I’ll be sad after election day, no matter who wins. Unless I am literally insane. In that case I’ll probably keep enjoying myself.

—

You might enjoy my book because it is entirely possible that I am insane.




===================================














^this is really good journalism, obviously very anti Trump lefty progressives, but no "racist/nazi" spin, and they're focusing on real issues like Clinton's warmongering and corruption, not just on pottymouth Trump's latest fumble.

also, Trump is like a harmless puppy compared to this evil witch.

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## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> The surveys are over sampled in Hillary's favor since the media is heavily biased against Trump and is actively colluding with the Clinton campaign in an effort to demoralize Trump supporters.


Well, if all the polls are rigged, then how come Trump's campaign manager Kellyanne Conway in interviews to different news channels has admitted that Trump is losing in the polls? Keep in mind, by profession, she’s a pollster. 






Trump and his stupid lies and now his followers are parroting the same BS. 







"Wikileaks also shows how John Podesta rigged the polls by oversampling Democrats, a voter suppression technique."
— Donald Trump on Monday, October 24th, 2016 in a rally in Florida


*Donald Trump absurdly claims Clinton campaign chairman rigged the polls. Pants on Fire!*
By Linda Qiu on Tuesday, October 25th, 2016

Two weeks away from the Nov. 8 election, Donald Trump is behind in the polls.

According to him, it’s because the Hillary Clinton campaign tampered with them.

"Wikileaks also shows how (Clinton campaign chairman) John Podesta rigged the polls by oversampling Democrats, a voter suppression technique," Trump said at a Oct. 24 rally in St. Augustine, Fla. "And that’s happening to me all the time. When the polls are even, when they leave them alone and do them properly, I’m leading. But you see these polls, where they’re polling Democrats -- ‘how’s Trump doing’ ‘oh he’s down’ -- they’re polling Democrats!"

We were curious about Trump’s charge of bogus polling.

*Trump is wrong that Wikileaks shows Podesta rigging the polls against him. He’s referring to an email obtained by the hacker group from Clinton’s 2008 (not 2016) campaign on what appears to be internal polling (not public ones published by media organizations). *And oversampling in this instance means polling more people in a specific demographic group for analysis -- not ignoring Republican voters to suppress their votes.

In short, oversampling is a common polling technique and not, as Trump says, one of "voter suppression."

*The email, one of thousands of Podesta emails released by Wikileaks, is a January 2008 exchange between Democratic strategists and employees of the Atlas Project, a political polling and data firm. *

Atlas sent over 98 pages of polling and media recommendations that includes several recommendations to oversample minorities, independent voters and Democrats in certain states.

Experts told us the technical term for this is "stratified disproportionate sampling," but most pollsters use "oversample" as a shorthand. It’s done not to skew the polls, but to gauge the attitudes of specific demographic groups, who would not be a statistically large enough group to analyze if sampled randomly.

For example, in a national sample of 1,000 eligible voters, only 12.5 percent, or 125, would be black. To accurately gauge black attitudes on certain issues, a pollster may oversample 500 black eligible voters (four times more than the random sample). Then, in analyzing the full sample, the sample of blacks would be assigned a weight of 0.25 to represent the overall population.

"If the analysis of the group is done separately, it is simply a large sample of that group. If combined with all respondents the oversample is weighted down proportionately so that the overall sample is representative of the population as a whole," said Charles Franklin, the director of Marquette Law School Poll. "This is a standard procedure and does not mean the weighted sample gives disproportionate weight to the oversampled group."

The Pew Research Center explained that it, for example, oversampled Hispanics for an in-depth look at the U.S. Hispanic population in June 2016. Analysts then weighted Hispanics when looking at the overall population to have both "more precise estimates when looking at Hispanics specifically" and also "the correct distribution when looking at the sample as a whole."

Roger Tourangeau, president of the American Association for Public Opinion Research, pointed out that monthly federal surveys on unemployment do the same. To get an accurate understanding of joblessness in Wyoming, pollsters would need to call a number of Wyoming residents disportionate to the number of people in the entire country.

*Trump’s overall charges of skewed polls is "nonsense," Tourangeau said, "Nobody wants to produce a biased assessment and look like an idiot (on Election Day). Why would people deliberately get it wrong? It’s business suicide."*

*Our ruling*

Trump said, "Wikileaks also shows how John Podesta rigged the polls by oversampling Democrats, a voter suppression technique."

A leaked email shows the Clinton campaign of 2008 consulted data firm that suggest oversampling in what is likely internal polling. The term refers to a common technique used by pollsters to analyze demographics groups more precisely than possible in a random sample.

We rate Trump’s claim Pants on Fire. *Link*


@Desert Fox stop embarrassing yourself.


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## RabzonKhan

*Clinton holds 9-point lead over Trump in new national poll*

By Nolan D. McCaskill 10/26/16

Hillary Clinton has a nearly double-digit lead over Donald Trump nationally, according to a Suffolk University/USA Today poll released Wednesday afternoon.

*Clinton tops Trump by 9 points with less than two weeks until Election Day. She leads a four-way race with 47 percent support, followed by Trump at 38 percent, Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson at 4 percent and Green Party candidate Jill Stein at 2 percent, with 7 percent undecided.*

In a head-to-head matchup, Clinton leads Trump by 10 points, 49 percent to 39 percent, with 10 percent undecided.

While Clinton is still viewed unfavorably, her net favorability is much better than Trump’s. The former secretary of state’s net favorability is -1 (46 percent favorable, 47 percent unfavorable), while Trump’s is -30 (31 percent favorable, 61 percent unfavorable). *Read more*


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## T-72

*Donald Trump Rally in Kinston, NC 10/26/16 




*

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## LA se Karachi

A_Poster said:


> I think you are wrong on this count. I have not seen any news network make a profit or even break even from revenues ,subscription or advertising.All of them ,bar some alternate media houses, are dependent on some business-house or charity for writing off their losses.




Most major American news networks are indeed making a profit, especially the most prominent ones:
_
"All three channels were projected to grow their profits in 2015. Fox News was projected to grow by about a fifth (21%) to $1.5 billion. CNN was projected to grow its profits by 17% to $381 million. And MSNBC was projected to grow by 10% to $227 million."

http://www.journalism.org/2016/06/15/cable-news-fact-sheet/#economics
_



gambit said:


> We suffer because of our own complicity. Am not being melodramatic here. I am a product of the Cold War. I fled communism in 1975. Then once I got my citizenship, I did my part in being a member of the NATO line. I have literally touched live nuclear weapons as part of a Victor Alert crew. I played tourist in East Berlin when it existed. I do not want the government to be the final arbiter of what I may read or express.




I wasn't suggesting heavy censorship. You seem to have misunderstood my previous comments. I was just implying that we Americans are doomed to our fate when it comes to the media.

Thank you for sharing your personal history, though. It was a fascinating read.



gambit said:


> It is only when we reach bottom that we realize how wrong we have been. The American people know how dishonest and corrupt their media, reaching the bottom is when the media no longer have any shame and that point is not yet here. As a whole, the American people is generous, or too generous in my opinion, with forgiveness. We have to suffer the arrogance of the American media all the way until the bottom.




And here, we disagree.

I don't think that there is a "rock-bottom" coming. Some people aren't interested current events. The ones that are often prefer a biased view to an unbiased one. Even those who are well-educated. In my opinion, the market has decided. And unfortunately, this is the media that most people want.

This applies to both sides of the aisle. You should talk to some Clinton or Trump supporters sometime. Most are unwilling to listen to negative information about their respective candidate, and often can't defend their own viewpoints. Many lack basic knowledge about politics and economics, but keep talking about both.


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## gambit

LA se Karachi said:


> I wasn't suggesting heavy censorship. You seem to have misunderstood my previous comments. I was just implying that we Americans are doomed to our fate when it comes to the media.


If we are 'doomed', then the optimist in me believes that we are 'doomed' only to the extent that we will finally see our worst. The same optimist also believes that as a whole, Americans will rise again.



LA se Karachi said:


> You should talk to some Clinton or Trump supporters sometime. Most are unwilling to listen to negative information about their respective candidate, and often can't defend their own viewpoints. Many lack basic knowledge about politics and economics, but keep talking about both.


I have talked to both.

You are correct that many, and I would dare say most, lack understanding of even the basics of the important issues.

It is very tempting to give in to the belief that such people should have either none or limited say in governance.

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## T-72



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## TimePass

I think its safe to say Clinton will be the next president. 

US first women president.


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## Solomon2

TimePass said:


> I think its safe to say Clinton will be the next president.


I don't think so. You can't trust the polls: people say one thing on the phone and may vote differently in private. In-person polls can be biased by the choices of the interviewer: I recall witnessing one exit pollster - in 2000, I think it was - who concentrated on polling pretty young women.


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## TimePass

Solomon2 said:


> I don't think so. You can't trust the polls: people say one thing on the phone and may vote differently in private. In-person polls can be biased by the choices of the interviewer: I recall witnessing one exit pollster - in 2000, I think it was - who concentrated on polling pretty young women.



What does your gut tell you ?


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## Solomon2

TimePass said:


> What does your gut tell you ?


My "gut" tells me that Trump is ipecac and Hillary is hemlock.


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## RabzonKhan

Solomon2 said:


> My "gut" tells me that Trump is ipecac and Hillary is hemlock.


Most probably the new guy did not understand your coded-language, I'll explain:

Trump called for a “total and complete” ban on Muslims entering the United States = ipecac

Hillary offers blistering rebuttal to Trump’s Muslim Ban = hemlock

and this is for you:

_First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist._

_Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—_ 
_Because I was not a Trade Unionist._

_Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—_ 
_Because I was not a Jew._

_Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me._


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## Solomon2

RabzonKhan said:


> Most probably the new guy did not understand your coded-language, I'll explain:
> 
> Trump called for a “total and complete” ban on Muslims entering the United States = ipecac
> Hillary offers blistering rebuttal to Trump’s Muslim Ban = hemlock


I did not have this in mind. Rather, it's that I find Trump's egocentric buffoonery offensive and Hillary's deliberate bending of laws and crooked conduct damaging to U.S. institutions.

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## T-72

RabzonKhan said:


> _Then they came for me_


come on, man, nobody is going to "come for the muslims" in the US if Trump is elected. 

There are too many checks and balances in your system to prevent that kind of thing, plus, that was never his idea to begin with, he's going to go after the jihadis in the middle east, not regular American muslims. 

It is crooked hillary who is directly responsible for destabilizing the middle east and hundreds of thousands of muslim lives that have been lost there... and she's promising to make it all much worse. 

btw, looks like new polls have tightened again, and, for a change, they're covering the Clinton scandals 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/27/us/politics/bill-hillary-clinton-foundation-wikileaks.html?_r=0

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...f84bba-9b92-11e6-b3c9-f662adaa0048_story.html






hmm  

a week and a bit of fair media coverage, he wins _big league_.

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## RabzonKhan

Solomon2 said:


> I did not have this in mind. Rather, it's that I find Trump's egocentric buffoonery offensive and *Hillary's deliberate bending of laws and crooked conduct damaging to U.S. institutions.*


Oh really, give me some examples?


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## Solomon2

RabzonKhan said:


> Oh really, give me some examples?


The email scandal.


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## LA se Karachi

gambit said:


> If we are 'doomed', then the optimist in me believes that we are 'doomed' only to the extent that we will finally see our worst.




_If _we finally see our worst. And only if we are willing to do something about it. That's the problem. But then again, I'm a pessimist when it comes to these issues. 



gambit said:


> It is very tempting to give in to the belief that such people should have either none or limited say in governance.




Well, I wouldn't go that far. Excluding people from democracy is a dangerous idea. Personally, I think that too few people vote and take the political process seriously. 

I think that the biggest problem is the media (aside from bad candidates). During the primaries, the media's bias against Sanders was unbelievable. I had to stop reading some sources that I liked because of how bad it was. And their obsession with Trump took away attention from other candidates. Meanwhile, it seemed like Hillary was handled with kid-gloves, and still is.

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## Darmashkian

LA se Karachi said:


> _If _we finally see our worst. And only if we are willing to do something about it. That's the problem. But then again, I'm a pessimist when it comes to these issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I wouldn't go that far. Excluding people from democracy is a dangerous idea. Personally, I think that too few people vote and take the political process seriously.
> 
> I think that the biggest problem is the media (aside from bad candidates). During the primaries, the media's bias against Sanders was unbelievable. I had to stop reading some sources that I liked because of how bad it was. And their obsession with Trump took away attention from other candidates. Meanwhile, it seemed like Hillary was handled with kid-gloves, and still is.


It is the media which created Trump  They gave him much more publicity than the gave to the others combined,publicity for which Trump spent almost nothing compared to what he received in terms of money!! Now it's amusing to see how biased they are towards Hillary & trying to help her campaign by attacking him.

One reason why Trump made so many outrageous statements was to get the media eye on him constantly & to put all the attention on him & drive his image in the voter's head which helped him win the primaries

They are all in HC's pocket-NBC,ABC,NYtimes,Washington Post etc etc.
That's why poor Bernie couldn't get any publicity & they are shamelessly advertising & rooting for Hillary now.

https://medium.com/@0rf/the-washington-post-bias-ae07f9b033c9#.8o2996tx5
http://inthesetimes.com/article/189...t-investigated-itself-for-anti-bernie-sanders
http://usuncut.com/politics/washington-post-bias-against-bernie-sanders/


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/707066660566515712


Solomon2 said:


> The email scandal.


The Clinton FOundation too is a good example...
@jha

I know one thing for sure,she took big money from Amar Singh(an Indian politico) & Sant Singh Chatwal(An Indian American hotellier) to support & lobby for the Indo-US nuclear deal & remove the sanctions her Husband placed on us.
Amar Singh's party was part of the Ruling coalition in power that timt which strongly supported & wanted this deal,he has good contacts wherever money can be made. He also acts as a conduit & works for other people/interests if the amount given is right

They donated big money to her foundation & Chatwal even sat on the Board for some time.

http://www.firstpost.com/world/hill...o-us-nuclear-deal-trump-campaign-2855212.html
http://www.firstpost.com/politics/f...n-donation-to-clinton-foundation-2218136.html

_A new book titled Clinton Cash has raised the issue again, questioning whether Singh was actually the source of the cash or was a conduit for other interests in India for pushing the deal forward in US Congress. Hillary Clinton, a Senator in 2008, was among the Democrats who supported the legislation in Congress and was reportedly at the meeting with Singh with her husband.

*The author, Peter Schweizer, noted as this Times of India report in 2008 did, that if the former Samajwadi Party general secretary was indeed the man behind the generous donation it would mean he had donated 20 percent of his declared financial assets at the time to the Clinton Foundation, which works on a range of issues from relief during natural calamities to health initiatives.*

For his part, Singh told some ministers that his name was listed by the Clinton Foundation because he had "facilitated the payment and, therefore, it 'erroneously' appeared in the records," according to the book.

Singh in 2008 had countered the report by saying that someone else could have made the donation on his behalf, and in response to the latest report continues to maintain that he never made any donation to the foundation.

"That is not my donation, I have not given that money to the The Clinton Foundation," Singh, who has long parted ways with the Samajwadi Party __told the Economic Times__._

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...to-Clinton-Foundation/articleshow/3864349.cms

_"Singh figures among those who made donations worth anywhere between Rs 4.6 crore to Rs 23 crore. Assuming that the SP general secretary just about made the grade, he would have parted with at least 20% of his declared assets to the Clinton Foundation._

_In his affidavit to the Election Commission, Singh, a member of Rajya Sabha, put the total value of his assets at Rs 37 crore. "
_

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## LA se Karachi

Darmashkian said:


> t is the media which created Trump  They gave him much more publicity than the gave to the others combined,publicity for which Trump spent almost nothing compared to what he received in terms of money!! Now it's amusing to see how biased they are towards Hillary & trying to help her campaign by attacking him.
> 
> One reason why Trump made so many outrageous statements was to get the media eye on him constantly & to put all the attention on him & drive his image in the voter's head which helped him win the primaries




I couldn't have said it better myself. The media helped create Trump. Their non-stop coverage of every stupid statement he made crowded out coverage for other candidates. And of course, that's why he said what he said, and did what he did. It brought him a tremendous amount of attention and helped him win the primary.

I can't tell you how many Clinton supporters were gleefully cheering him on, thinking that his nomination would lead to a landslide victory for their candidate. Now they are deathly serious about his candidacy, and tell everyone to vote for her because of him. Clearly, they grossly underestimated just how bad of candidate Hillary Clinton is (though we told them this many times). Some of them are finally beginning to realize this. Then again, maybe they were right to root for him after all, given that he was one of the few candidates she could actually beat.



Darmashkian said:


> https://medium.com/@0rf/the-washington-post-bias-ae07f9b033c9#.8o2996tx5
> http://inthesetimes.com/article/189...t-investigated-itself-for-anti-bernie-sanders
> http://usuncut.com/politics/washington-post-bias-against-bernie-sanders/
> 
> I actually gave them too much credit. Washington Post ran 16 negative Sanders stories in 16 hours. pic.twitter.com/4MvkxZIf3n— Adam H. Johnson (@adamjohnsonNYC) March 8, 2016




The Washington Post was the worst. Your tweet demonstrates this quite well. It was the source I had mind, more than any other, when I commented. I try to avoiding reading that newspaper now.

This election cycle exposed many different media sources. It exposed politicians, and people in general too. Many of them acted like the were progressive, putting down right-wingers, and making it seem like they were unbiased news sources. They took the money of liberals. But when Bernie came onto the scene, their liberalism seemed to disappear. They began relentlessly attacking the man over almost nothing, and largely played down the scandals surrounding Hillary. Many of us took notice.

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## Darmashkian

maximuswarrior said:


> You are screwed either way.
> 
> Some fools here think that Trump is their next messiah who only speaks the truth. They are wrong. Trump or Hillary won't make an iota of difference. A politician is just that. There are no good politicians.


No one person can bring change on their own,only a movement or group can do that

AI system says Trump will win
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/28/dona...pular-than-obama-in-2008-ai-system-finds.html

Astrologers give us ther take
http://www.inquisitr.com/3590535/election-2016-predictions-what-astrologers-are-saying/


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## RabzonKhan

A great man and a true patriot ! 



*Trump 'makes me fear for the ultimate well-being of the country,' says Libertarian Bill Weld*







Bill Weld, the Libertarian vice presidential nominee, explicitly warned Tuesday against the dangers of a Donald Trump presidency in a message aimed at voters torn between the two major parties’ nominees.

The Republican nominee, he warned, would not be able to stand up to the pressure and criticism that comes with the Oval Office job "without becoming unhinged and unable to perform competently the duties of his office.”

The former Massachusetts governor and former Republican stopped well short of endorsing Democrat Hillary Clinton. Weld is running with Gary Johnson, a former governor of New Mexico, and their third-party bid is drawing low single digits in the polls.

Earlier this month, Weld announced that his goal for the remaining days of the election was to deny Trump the White House and then to help rebuild the Republican Party in the aftermath.

On Tuesday, at a press conference in Boston, Weld effectively acknowledged that he and Johnson would not win on Nov. 8. He said third parties typically face long odds because they fail to meet the criteria to participate in candidates' debates.

*“Against that backdrop, I would like to address myself to all those in the electorate who remain torn between two so-called major party candidates whom they cannot enthusiastically support,” Weld said.

“I’m speaking particularly to those Republicans who feel that our president should exhibit commonly accepted standards of decency and discipline.”

Weld said Trump is unstable, has run a grievance campaign, sees those who look or speak differently than he does as enemies, and has proved himself incapable of handling criticism.*

All this makes Trump different from other politicians with whom he may have had political differences with in the past, Weld said.

*“Not in my lifetime … has there been a candidate for president who actually makes me fear for the ultimate well-being of the country, a candidate who might in fact put at risk the solid foundation of America that allows us to endure even ill-advised policies and the normal ebb and flow of politics,” Weld said.*

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## T-72

interesting conversation

@Nilgiri @Desert Fox @Darmashkian @jha @LA se Karachi @gambit

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## jha

This election is too close for Hillary backers. Relentless attacks on Trump, and Hillary still is not too ahead.

How many people you think are secretly backing Trump, but not admitting ?

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## Zibago

jha said:


> This election is too close for Hillary backers. Relentless attacks on Trump, and Hillary still is not too ahead.
> 
> How many people you think are secretly backing Trump, but not admitting ?


The funniest thing about this electiom is the more a candidate talks the more they are criticised when Hillary remains silent her popularity rises when she speaks its falls same with Trump they should just stop talking


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## T-72

Zibago said:


> The funniest thing about this electiom is the more a candidate talks the more they are criticised when Hillary remains silent her popularity rises when she speaks its falls same with Trump they should just stop talking


lmao, imagine if Trump wins, and continues to be a pottymouth.


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## Zibago

T-72 said:


> lmao, imagine if Trump wins, and continues to be a pottymouth.


Think of a roided up Duetro


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## T-72

Zibago said:


> Think of a roided up Duetro


yep, but he'd be a boss, Dueterte, badass as he's been, is still only a serf, Pinoys are small strategic fry, a USN flotilla still dwarfs anything the Chinese might put there, besides, it's just headlines anyway, it'll be a good many years of transition if China were ever to truly _replace _the US presence on the islands.

I want to see Trump chair G 20 meetings, speak at the UN, make deals with XI and Putin, kill ISIS....it'll be the most epic thing anyone's ever seen. I also want to see Melania help poor orphans etc, really hope she takes up animal conservatism as well, imagine, Melania saves the snow Leopard, the Bengal tiger, the whale shark, a rare frog 









vs


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## Darmashkian

Mein Gott!
@gambit @T-72 @Nilgiri @Desert Fox @KAL-EL @LA se Karachi@nick_Indian @RabzonKhan @boomslang

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/792057488275218432http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-re-open-investigation-clinton-email-server-n674631

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/29/us/politics/fbi-hillary-clinton-email.html?_r=0

http://www.dailywire.com/news/10318..._content=news&utm_campaign=twitterbenshapiro#









jha said:


> This election is too close for Hillary backers. Relentless attacks on Trump, and Hillary still is not too ahead.
> 
> How many people you think are secretly backing Trump, but not admitting ?


I expect many Americans from varying groups which aren't usually pro-Trump(ethnic minorities,white men with college degrees,people in liberal areas & circles) to secretly support Trump. I also expect married men & many university students to support him silently but not come out in open out of fear of their spouses or their liberal varsity campus!

But in the overall picture,I believe the actual no.s won't shift drastically towards Trump,but slightly.

I have written about this before on this thread,do use search to check it out

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## T-72

Darmashkian said:


> Mein Gott!
> @gambit @T-72 @Nilgiri @Desert Fox @KAL-EL @LA se Karachi
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/792057488275218432http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-re-open-investigation-clinton-email-server-n674631



Trump rally live, he opened this speech with news of the new e-mail investigation.

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> A great man and a true patriot !
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump 'makes me fear for the ultimate well-being of the country,' says Libertarian Bill Weld*



As a resident of Massachusetts, I loved him as Governor. Wished he won election to the Senate. Nevertheless, Massachusetts had some good Republican governors, including Mitt Romney. Unfortunately, Republicans from the Northeast are treated pretty badly by other Republicans elsewhere -- not conservative enough!

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## SQ8

cloud4000 said:


> As a resident of Massachusetts, I loved him as Governor. Wished he won election to the Senate. Nevertheless, Massachusetts had some good Republican governors, including Mitt Romney. Unfortunately, Republicans from the Northeast are treated pretty badly by other Republicans elsewhere -- not conservative enough!


Had Mitt Romney been running, the election would be much clearer and more civilized. Right now its just a quasi Nazi movement versus a career "we'll do things as we do".



jha said:


> This election is too close for Hillary backers. Relentless attacks on Trump, and Hillary still is not too ahead.
> 
> How many people you think are secretly backing Trump, but not admitting ?


Everyone with even the slightest hatred for Muslims is that is a given.

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## RabzonKhan

Solomon2 said:


> The email scandal.


So you really think Hillary Clinton's e-mail issue is more harmful then Trumps hate and fear mongering based campaign?

Don't you think Trumps dog whistle racist rhetoric is increasing hate against Muslims, Jews and other minorities? You must be knowing that Trump had hired Stephen Bannon as his campaign chief, who used to be publisher of Breitbart news the home of racist Alt-right. The Alt-right have a huge present on the web and they're involved in anti-Muslim, Hispanic, black and Jewish hate propaganda. Thanks to Trumps hate-based campaign anti-Semitism is on the rise.

Here is a report, compiled by the ADL:

“The report, the first of its kind, presents findings based on a broad set of keywords (and keyword combinations) designed by ADL to capture anti-Semitic language on social media. Using this metric, a total of *2.6 million tweets* containing language frequently found in anti-Semitic speech were posted across Twitter between August 2015 and July 2016. Those tweets had an estimated 10 billion impressions (reach), which ADL believes contributed to reinforcing and normalizing anti-Semitic language – particularly racial slurs.” *Link*






There are only 10 days left before the election, so far Trump is losing Electoral College battle, it's really going to be very difficult for him to turn battleground states to red, a comeback of this magnitude would be really unprecedented.


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## XenoEnsi-14

Oscar said:


> Everyone with even the slightest hatred for Muslims is that is a given.


Really? Thanks for the sucker punch. I'd rather have the Corporate in the White House than a lying middleman/woman career politician.

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## EgyptianAmerican

RabzonKhan said:


> So you really think Hillary Clinton's e-mail issue is more harmful then Trumps hate and fear mongering based campaign?
> 
> Don't you think Trumps dog whistle racist rhetoric is increasing hate against Muslims, Jews and other minorities? You must be knowing that Trump had hired Stephen Bannon as his campaign chief, who used to be publisher of Breitbart news the home of racist Alt-right. The Alt-right have a huge present on the web and they're involved in anti-Muslim, Hispanic, black and Jewish hate propaganda. Thanks to Trumps hate-based campaign anti-Semitism is on the rise.
> 
> Here is a report, compiled by the ADL:
> 
> “The report, the first of its kind, presents findings based on a broad set of keywords (and keyword combinations) designed by ADL to capture anti-Semitic language on social media. Using this metric, a total of *2.6 million tweets* containing language frequently found in anti-Semitic speech were posted across Twitter between August 2015 and July 2016. Those tweets had an estimated 10 billion impressions (reach), which ADL believes contributed to reinforcing and normalizing anti-Semitic language – particularly racial slurs.” *Link*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are only 10 days left before the election, so far Trump is losing Electoral College battle, it's really going to be very difficult for him to turn battleground states to red, a comeback of this magnitude would be really unprecedented.
> 
> View attachment 347119



Dude my home state always disappoints me, First Mit Romney then Donald Trump? 

Why does my State have to be so Red


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## RabzonKhan

*Comey's letter is not a bombshell: Donald Trump is still unfit, and we're unlikely to learn anything new about Hillary Clinton's email error
*
BY GABRIEL SCHOENFELD
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Friday, October 28, 2016

As October surprises go, news that the FBI is reviving its investigation of Hillary Clinton is a bomblet, not a bombshell. In a letter to Congress, FBI Director James Comey reports that in the course of an inquiry in an unrelated case, new emails surfaced which “appear to be pertinent to the investigation” of Clinton's private server and that his agency was taking steps to “determine whether they contain classified information, as well as to assess their importance” to the previously closed Clinton case. The unrelated case in question is reported by the New York Times to be an FBI inquiry into Anthony Weiner's sexting practices.

Those riding in the locomotive of the Trump train are certain to seize on this story as a way of saving themselves from what appears to be an almost inexorable wreck. At his rallies, Trump has been hammering away on WikiLeaks revelations about the Clinton Foundation, but little has emerged from that source which directly involves Hillary herself. This news from the FBI, resurrecting the email scandal just as it had begun to fade, and with a salacious but not yet understood connection to Anthony Weiner, is far better fodder for Trump's 11th hour electoral rescue attempt.

Already, Trump has tweeted “we must not let #CrookedHillary take her CRIMINAL SCHEME into the Oval Office,” and Republicans up and down the power scale are chiming in. House Speaker Paul Ryan has demanded that Hillary Clinton be denied further classified intelligence briefings of the kind that presidential candidates customarily enjoy.

Still, try as Trump and his acolytes might, this story alone is unlikely to change the near-term course of events. For one thing, according to one key clause in Comey's letter to Congress: “the FBI cannot yet assess whether or not this material may be significant.” In another key clause, Comey writes: "I cannot predict how long it will take us to complete this additional work." *Link*





EgyptianAmerican said:


> Dude my home state always disappoints me, First Mit Romney then Donald Trump?
> 
> Why does my State have to be so Red


Which state, my friend?


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## EgyptianAmerican

RabzonKhan said:


> Which states, my friend?



Alaska... 

It's kinda depressing considering I know a lot of the democrats in Alaska especially for the majority Inuit people.


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## RabzonKhan

EgyptianAmerican said:


> Alaska...
> 
> It's kinda depressing considering I know a lot of the democrats in Alaska especially for the majority Inuit people.


Oh yeah, Alaska is a solid Republican state, and the possibility of it turning blue is quite bleak, sorry my friend. The only positive thing is that it's a small state with only three electoral votes.





*Electoral College Projections as of October 26th*
*October 27, 2016*

*We gathered up the projections of 14 organizations again Wednesday.* While several forecasts have been updated since our last look on October 21st, not much has changed overall. Hillary Clinton now averages 306 electoral votes, Donald Trump 179. The changed forecasts are highlighted in bold in the table below.

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## KAL-EL

Currently watching secretary Clinton's live news conference regarding the FBI reopening the investigation over the emails.

EDIT: Wow, that was a pretty short news conference

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## forsigmar

maximuswarrior said:


> You are screwed either way.
> 
> Some fools here think that Trump is their next messiah who only speaks the truth. They are wrong. Trump or Hillary won't make an iota of difference. A politician is just that. There are no good politicians.


There is a huge difference between Hillary and Trump, such as the total collapse of US military morale.

http://www.militarycorruption.com/hillary4.htm
*ATTENTION ALL ACTIVE DUTY, NATIONAL GUARD
AND RESERVE MEMBERS - ALSO FAMILIES AND
LOVED ONES - LAST CHANCE TO SAVE COUNTRY
AND OUR MILITARY - STOP CROOKED HILLARY
ON NOVEMBER 8TH - VOTE LIKE SURVIVAL OF 
AMERICA IS AT STAKE, BECAUSE IT IS! - HONOR
THE MEMORY OF OUR FALLEN DEAD - DON'T MAKE
A POWER-MAD, CORRUPT LIAR THIS NATION'S
COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF - WE MUST DEFEAT HER
SHE'S UNFIT TO HOLD A SECURITY CLEARANCE*

*© 2016 MilitaryCorruption.com*

*By David Smallwood*

*

The stakes could not be higher on November 8th.*

* Venal Hillary Clinton must be stopped before she can gain control of our nation's armed forces and all the other elements of power. Vote against her in memory of our honored dead. It's our last chance to save our country.*

* Twenty years ago, William Safire in the New York TIMES correctly pegged her as a "congenital liar." Now, the newspaper that boasted it published "all the news that's fit to print" has become such a powerful propaganda tool - along with ABC, CBS, CNN and NBC/MSNBC - that Stalin would turn green with envy, were that murderous dictator still alive and ruling Russia.*

* The media whitewash of Clinton's crimes, plus a steady drumbeat of multiple "hit stories" attacking Donald J. Trump, have had the desired effect. The only way this evil woman can take over our country and rob us blind, is by demonizing Trump and conning the American people into electing her President of the United States.*

* A Hillary reign would spell disaster for our military. There's money to be made in waging continual war. How many soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines must die so she and her Globalist pals can pile up more billions of dollars? If you are an active duty, Guard, or Reserve member, if you're a family member or loved one, in the name of God, vote. *

*DON'T FORGET OUR VETERANS*

*Remember our wounded and disabled veterans. The VA system is broken. Fat cat officials are scoring salaries in excess of $200,000 a year. We at MilitaryCorruption.com have chronicled many instances of waste, fraud and abuse. What has Hillary had to say about it? Damn little, except for her flippant remark of several months ago when she claimed criticism of wrongdoing at VA was "over-blown."*

* Don't hold your breath waiting for justice from her. VA Director Robert McDonald lied about being in Special Forces his first month on the job. He should have been fired, but he's Obama's appointee, so nothing happened to him. Hillary doesn't give a damn about us. Her long-held contempt for members of the Marine Corps - they wisely turned her down when she tried to obtain a commission as a JAG officer - will extend to all Americans in uniform who aren't already her sycophantic toadies.*

* We need a genuine patriot and honorable leader like retired LT GEN Mike Flynn to become Secretary of Defense. Ashton Carter is nothing but a political hack. Ray Mabus has been a fiercely partisan Navy Secretary. His stupid tinkering with the enlisted rating system is just the latest example that this leftist Democrat has been an unmitigated disaster.*

* Trump has promised to rebuild our military. He aims to increase our Navy to a 350-ship fleet. The Republican deserves the vote of all who love our Naval Service and her hallowed traditions. We urge our thousands of readers from Norfolk to San Diego, Pensacola to Kitsap, please vote. The nation's survival is at stake.*

*VOTE TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT*

*In the 16 years we have been online, MilitaryCorrupiton.com has never endorsed a presidential candidate. In fact, we have rarely endorsed anyone, either Democrat or Republican, for any office. Politicians from both parties have been roundly criticized on these pages. Our motto remains: "fighting for the truth . . . exposing the corrupt."*

* We are proud to have editorialized against going into Iraq, although we backed our troops 100%, once they were committed to battle. MCC condemned Dick "Halliburton" Cheney, the war profiteer. We condemned former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and called for him to be fired. He was.*

* On the other side of the aisle, we have been unrelenting in our criticism of the most dangerous man ever to occupy the White House - Barack Hussein Obama. He showed his true feelings about us, who put our lives on the line in combat, by pulling out all stops to save the miserable hide of Army deserter Bowe Bergdahl.*

*HILLARY WILL SEEK RETRIBUTION*

*At a very minimum, Hillary Clinton has endangered our nation with her reckless operation of a private server. We don't know if that clear violation of federal law was to conceal her crooked dealings with the Clinton Foundation or to cover up alleged lesbian activities with her bedtime roommate in Chappaqua, New York, the mysterious and all-powerful Huma Abedin. whose momma is connected with the dangerous Muslim Brotherhood.*

* Here at MilitaryCorruption.com, we have no illusions about what will happen to us if Hillary is elected President. She has already vowed to use and abuse every lever of federal power to crush and silence opposition. If you, dear reader, want to go on reading MCC, vote for Donald Trump and send us a contribution via PayPal.*

* Our editor-in-chief, a retired "Mustang" officer who made sergeant E-5 at 20 years of age and served three consecutive tours (1966-69) as an Army combat correspondent in Vietnam, a man who proudly wore the uniform in the active Army, Guard and Reserve over a span of 33 years, has never taken a dime in salary or expenses since we went online July 4, 2000. Do you respect this disabled war veteran's sacrifice? Let us know.*

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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


>




Why does their map show Oklahoma going blue? That was a mistake, I assume?



cloud4000 said:


> As a resident of Massachusetts, I loved him as Governor. Wished he won election to the Senate. Nevertheless, Massachusetts had some good Republican governors, including Mitt Romney. Unfortunately, Republicans from the Northeast are treated pretty badly by other Republicans elsewhere -- not conservative enough!




Bill Weld should have been at the top of the ticket, in my opinion. The Libertarians would do better if he was. He's much more Presidential than Johnson. He also appeals more to wealthy, well-educated Republicans who don't like Trump.

On another note, how on earth did Trump get to 49% of the vote in the Massachusetts Primary, and win the state by such a wide margin? That night, I realized Trump would win the nomination. To me, it says a lot about some northeastern Republicans.

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## forsigmar

LA se Karachi said:


> Why does their map show Oklahoma going blue? That was a mistake, I assume?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Weld should have been at the top of the ticket, in my opinion. The Libertarians would do better if he was. He's much more Presidential than Johnson. He also appeals more to wealthy, well-educated Republicans who don't like Trump.
> 
> On another note, how on earth did Trump get to 49% of the vote in the Massachusetts Primary, and win the state by such a wide margin? That night, I realized Trump would win the nomination. To me, it says a lot about some northeastern Republicans.


Trump is a genuine New Yorker too, people in New England generally support probusiness/liberal policies, like Trump. Trump is also kind of a an asshole, and that makes people in NY, NJ, Boston think him as more genuine.

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## Desert Fox

EgyptianAmerican said:


> Alaska...
> 
> It's kinda depressing considering I know a lot of the democrats in Alaska especially for the majority Inuit people.


Don't worry, if Hillary gets elected through a rigged election, she'll send a couple of million refugees to Alaska and give them voting rights and turn it into a blue state in no time.

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## Desert Fox

*Hillary's America: Clinton Supporters Beat Up Homeless Black Woman*










@T-72 @Nilgiri @C130 @Falcon29



XenoEnsi-14 said:


> Really? Thanks for the sucker punch. I'd rather have the Corporate in the White House than a lying middleman/woman career politician.


Hillary has actually got Muslims killed in Libya and Syria and Iraq.

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## jha

Is this true ?

http://www.redflagnews.com/headline...obama-appearances-at-hillary-campaign-events-

Meanwhile..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/792301893091373056

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## T-72

jha said:


> Is this true ?
> 
> http://www.redflagnews.com/headline...obama-appearances-at-hillary-campaign-events-


wow, that is yuge if true ! 

check drudge, he's killing her with lots of other news too. 



jha said:


> Meanwhile..

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## Nilgiri

jha said:


> Is this true ?
> 
> http://www.redflagnews.com/headline...obama-appearances-at-hillary-campaign-events-
> 
> Meanwhile..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/792301893091373056



Could be Obama's final F U to Hillary for all the BS she did to him earlier hehe.


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## T-72

Nilgiri said:


> Could be Obama's final F U to Hillary for all the BS she did to him earlier hehe.


final FU wut ?

Some have speculated that there is some bad blood between the Obamas and the Clinton crime syndicate but she is also his only hope for saving both his legacy international and domestic policy legislations with the Iran and affordable healthcare act respectively. He was "really into electing Hillary" 






could this FBI re-investigation news really have changed things so much ? 

we should all hope so, god, I so want to see the witch and her crooked campaign crash, burn and go down in a pile of toxic shite, glorious !

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## RabzonKhan

I just had a laugh of my life. 

As I have been saying repeatedly that Trump is not presidential material, he is an idiot, oh but wait a minute, he's a billionaire, how can he be an idiot, some will say…………..well, it's the age, stupid, he's a 70-year-old who has totally lost his freaking mind. (Now I'm not saying that all 70-year-olds lose their mind)

The idiot and many of his supporters were praising far left wing Michael Moore’s new film, Michael Moore in TrumpLand, but guess what, they did not even realized that actually the film is pro-Hillary Clinton. 

Michael Moore appearing on the Fox news with Megyn Kelly a few hours after Donnie said he “agrees with Moore's assessment that his campaign is going to be the biggest **** you ever recorded in human history”

Since the clip is gone viral and has become a rallying cry for Donnie's campaign, Moore told Kelly, the clip that has gone viral in was DOCTORED, it cuts off just before he delivers his primary message, the tape is cut off after Moore says “it will feel good”, but then in the next line (which was cut off) ,he says *“for a day, or maybe a week”, but when you find out that your life isn't going to get any better under Pres. Trump and will probably get worse, that's when you're going to realize what the Brits have realized (Brexit vote BS). *

“If we elect Donald Trump as president of this country, it won't be the same country after four years”. “I'm absolutely convinced of that”.

*This is the most vile, disgusting candidates that's ever run for office in this country”.*

Moore, speaking directly to Donnie supporters on Fox news, said, “I understand why you are angry, you have every right to be angry, the system has failed you, but he is not the solution.

*Moore said, If Trump had watched the complete film, he wouldn't be promoting it, because the message is to get out and vote for Hillary Clinton.*

Kelly then asked Moore, “why were you against her when she ran against Obama and you were against her in the primaries, you like that Bernie, you seem to be reluctant Hillary supporter”. Moore said that he doesn't like that she voted for Iraq war and thinks she is too cozy with the Wall Street, the wiki leaks revelations don't bother him at all, “I care about woman should be paid the same as men, I care about the polar ice caps melting, the big big issues, we have a choice between somebody who is smart, who has a heart, who's going to stand up for kids and for families and working people and we have a billionaire who just say this these things trying to pretend that he cares”. Watch the entire video and have fun.

Damn idiot's tweak. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/791738173462310912

Micheal Moore to Trump Supporters: He is The Most "Vile," "Disgusting" Candidate Ever.







@Darmashkian the clip you posted was doctored (*Link*), you seem like a good person, but sorry to say you are supporting a jackass, the man is a total embarrassment.

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## Nilgiri

T-72 said:


> could this FBI re-investigation news really have changed things so much ?



I get what you are saying and its probably why the obamas leased michelle for hillary's use lately (given what michelle said about hillary way back in 08 during the bad blood)....but I think they are burning bridges now because the emails really are that bad (content wise). Could also just be a hedge to wait and see how much they can push the FBI to keep playing ball with them.

I think whatever it is, it could quite possibly be the real big stuff Russia was holding on to for the right time. They don't want this crazy hag anywhere near syria goading them for world war 3.

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## jha

T-72 said:


> final FU wut ?
> 
> Some have speculated that there is some bad blood between the Obamas and the Clinton crime syndicate but she is also his only hope for saving both his legacy international and domestic policy legislations with the Iran and affordable healthcare act respectively. He was "really into electing Hillary"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> could this FBI re-investigation news really have changed things so much ?
> 
> we should all hope so, god, I so want to see the witch and her crooked campaign crash, burn and go down in a pile of toxic shite, glorious !




Looks like, it was a propaganda...

https://hillaryspeeches.com/scheduled-events/

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## RabzonKhan

jha said:


> Looks like, it was a propaganda...
> 
> https://hillaryspeeches.com/scheduled-events/


That's typical, always double,triple check, because lying is very much part and parcel of Donnie's campaign.


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## T-72

Nilgiri said:


> I get what you are saying and its probably why the obamas leased michelle for hillary's use lately (given what michelle said about hillary way back in 08 during the bad blood)....but I think they are burning bridges now because the emails really are that bad (content wise). Could also just be a hedge to wait and see how much they can push the FBI to keep playing ball with them.
> 
> I think whatever it is, it could quite possibly be the real big stuff Russia was holding on to for the right time. They don't want this crazy hag anywhere near syria goading them for world war 3.


if that's the case, not only are they burning bridges, they are jumping ship, and abandoning all hope of a continued legacy by giving up on the ACA as well as the Iran deal (which we had heard surprisingly little of lately but Trump hammered that point all during the primaries and many times in the general)

Keep in mind also that he's also been outed with his *lie *of not knowing of her e-mails, could be that in his calculus now he's decided that his legacy as the 'first black guy' will endure, nevermind the historic legislations he signed, crooked Hillary and the Clinton crime syndicate stink just too much. 



RabzonKhan said:


> was doctored


what "doctored" ? everyone knows Moore is hardcore liberal lefty and hates Trump, what he said there was that because the system has failed a large section of Americans, he predicts that they will now use the vote to put him in the white house.

Trump is winning big league with 'working class' whites, and if they turn out en masse like it looks like they will, crooked hillary has no chance to offset that with her advantage with communist leaning minority and single mom votes. 

she is going down, big league, and nobody and nothing can stop the slide now, you should resign from CTR. 



jha said:


> Looks like, it was a propaganda...
> 
> https://hillaryspeeches.com/scheduled-events/


yeah, it would have been a bit much for him to cancel all campaigning with her, they'll fight, but they're still going down, game's over for crooked hillary.

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## RabzonKhan

T-72 said:


> what "doctored" ? everyone knows Moore is hardcore liberal lefty and hates Trump, what he said there was that because the system has failed a large section of Americans, he predicts that they will now use the vote to put him in the white house.
> 
> Trump is winning big league with 'working class' whites, and if they turn out en masse like it looks like they will, crooked hillary has no chance to offset that with her advantage with communist leaning minority and single mom votes.


Did you even read my post (1908) and watched the video that I posted?

And where are you getting this cheap propaganda from “communist leaning minority” and “single mom votes”. Poll after poll has shown that majority of Blacks, Hispanics, Asians (highly educated and many of them owned small businesses) women, young and voters with college degree are supporting her, on the other hand, Trump support comes from mostly white men without college degree and of course, the racist scums.

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## SQ8

RabzonKhan said:


> Did you even read my post (1908) and watched the video that I posted?
> 
> And where are you getting this cheap propaganda from “communist leaning minority” and “single mom votes”. Poll after poll has shown that majority of Blacks, Hispanics, Asians (highly educated and many of them owned small businesses) women, young and voters with college degree are supporting her, on the other hand, Trump support comes from mostly white men without college degree and of course, the racist scums.



Polls are not reflective. There is the basket of deplorables as Hillary puts it and the simply tired blue collar white and hispanic class that will vote for trump. Some not because they really care if is a child molester or not; but because they are sick of the system.

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## T-72

RabzonKhan said:


> Did you even read my post (1908) and watched the video that I posted?


yes I did, and so what ? Trump is a busy guy, obviously hasn't watched the movie, what he does agree with is Moore's analysis of disaffected citizens putting him in office, which they will.



RabzonKhan said:


> And where are you getting this cheap propaganda from “communist leaning minority” and “single mom votes”. Poll after poll has shown that majority of Blacks, Hispanics, Asians (highly educated and many of them owned small businesses) women, young and voters with college degree are supporting her, on the other hand, Trump support comes from mostly white men without college degree and of course, the racist scums.


there you go deriding regular people and Trump supporters again, could it be that the coastal elite have a bit of a disconnect with the 'murrican heartland ? 

Native whites, along with common sense minority voters who don't want ww3, will overwhelm the ballot to offset any big advantage she has with her core demographic of left leaning betas, SJWs, feminists and minorities, of which not all will be rabid followers and fans, but many will use this as a sign of protest, Trump their human wrecking ball/grenade/molotov cocktail, call him what you will. 

here, watch a Trump rally live:

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## Nilgiri

I am enjoying this immensely. 

Huma Abedin husband is a pedophile!!!!

The smoking gun is the emails (probably hillary emails) found among this disturbing content that everyone has now heard about the FBI "reopening".

Stay tuned and watch the hag go down in flames.

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## T-72

Nilgiri said:


> I am enjoying this immensely.
> 
> Huma Abedin husband is a pedophile!!!!
> 
> The smoking gun is the emails (probably hillary emails) found among this disturbing content that everyone has now heard about the FBI "reopening".
> 
> Stay tuned and watch the hag go down in flames.


lmao, even Cenk and his TYT muppets were joking that this is proof that the Clintons are innocent else they'd have murdered Wiener long ago when 

also, Trump's been on his case since the primaries 






big, bing, bong 

man, how I miss the primaries, those were explosive rallies, and regardless of who wins and loses, I'll have serious US Election withdrawals when this is done

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## EgyptianAmerican

T-72 said:


> lmao, even Cenk and his TYT muppets were joking that this is proof that the Clintons are innocent else they'd have murdered Wiener long ago when
> 
> also, Trump's been on his case since the primaries
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> big, bing, bong
> 
> man, how I miss the primaries, those were explosive rallies, and regardless of who wins and loses, I'll have serious US Election withdrawals when this is done




Nah man, After Clinton Wins, I will be Majorly relieved and hope we never put up with another one of these.

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## T-72

EgyptianAmerican said:


> Nah man, After Clinton Wins, I will be Majorly relieved and hope we never put up with another one of these.


we'll see in 10 days or so 


btw, not aware of your political leanings or situation but Mr Trump met the good General earlier when he was down for some UN business 






very presidential

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## Desert Fox

Trump is loyal to his supporters:

*BREAKING: Donald Trump Attorney Looking for Homeless Woman Beaten By Hillary Clinton Supporters in Hollywood*​
Kristinn Taylor Oct 28th, 2016 9:09 pm 390 Comments


The attorney for Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump is looking for the homeless Black woman seen on video being attacked by a mob of Hillary Clinton supporters as she protected Trump’s star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame after it was sledgehammered by a Clinton supporter earlier this week.

Before:



After:




Michael Cohen, Trump Organization EVP and Special Counsel to Donald J. Trump, spoke out on Twitter Friday evening about Mr. Trump’s desire–before it was known to him that she was attacked by the Clinton mob–to present an unspecified gift to the woman. Cohen said he had a friend in Hollywood looking for her.

After learning she had been attacked, Cohen promised she would have “the last laugh on these thugs.”

*Cohen told a supporter to not contact the Trump campaign about the woman but to DM him on Twitter with any information as to her whereabouts.*, indicating this is a personal matter for Trump.

.@DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump someone please help me locate this woman as Mr. Trump has a gift for her…

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

_“.@DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump someone please help me locate this woman as Mr. Trump has a gift for her…”_

.@aGirlisN0one @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump Someone please help me find this woman. No person should ever be treated this way!!!

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

_“.@aGirlisN0one @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump Someone please help me find this woman. No person should ever be treated this way!!!”_

.@can_texplain @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump I just had a friend who works close by look but she is not there. If someone sees her, DM me

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

_“.@can_texplain @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump I just had a friend who works close by look but she is not there. If someone sees her, DM me”_

Soon after Cohen responded to posters on Twitter who informed him the woman had been attacked and prayed for her to be found and helped. Cohen stayed engaged in conversation with the posters over the course of several hours Friday night.

@MichaelCohen212 @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump they assaulted her!! https://t.co/dyXxJiRW1c

— rjgafini (@downtownusa1) October 28, 2016

_“@MichaelCohen212 @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump they assaulted her!!”_

.@EOnAntisemitism @YouTube with everyone's help, we will.

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

_“.@EOnAntisemitism @YouTube with everyone’s help, we will.”_

.@IamBruceRussell @natashalarebel she will ultimately have the last laugh

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

_“.@IamBruceRussell @natashalarebel she will ultimately have the last laugh”_

.@can_texplain @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump no one should be treated like this. God bless her

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

_“.@can_texplain @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump no one should be treated like this. God bless her”_

.@aGirlisN0one @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump @Cernovich @PizzaPartyBen we will!!!

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

_“.@aGirlisN0one @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump @Cernovich @PizzaPartyBen we will!!!”_ (find her)

.@HeavenPeaceLove @aGirlisN0one @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump @Cernovich @PizzaPartyBen I have asked local friends to check daily.

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

_“.@HeavenPeaceLove @aGirlisN0one @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump @Cernovich @PizzaPartyBen I have asked local friends to check daily.”_

.@UnpopularTruth3 @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump No…please DM me.

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

_“.@UnpopularTruth3 @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump No…please DM me.”_

.@sandra48050139 with everyone's love and help, this woman will have the last laugh on these thugs

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

_“.@sandra48050139 with everyone’s love and help, this woman will have the last laugh on these thugs”_

.@Mallory_McLean @bocavista2016 @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump that's for the police to do. Let's hope

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

_“.@Mallory_McLean @bocavista2016 @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump that’s for the police to do. Let’s hope”_

.@WvBoy51 @can_texplain @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump or be treated like this.

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

_“.@WvBoy51 @can_texplain @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump or be treated like this.”_

.@Malthrax @CassandraRules I have a friend who went and she was gone. He will return daily until we find her.

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

_“.@Malthrax @CassandraRules I have a friend who went and she was gone. He will return daily until we find her.”_

.@CassandraRules @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump I sure will.

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

_“.@CassandraRules @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump I sure will.”_

.@DianaChic1 @can_texplain @Poppy_Fields1 @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump as did everyone I know who saw it

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

_“.@DianaChic1 @can_texplain @Poppy_Fields1 @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump as did everyone I know who saw it”_

.@taylorhamtakes @aGirlisN0one @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump @Cernovich @PizzaPartyBen how do you know that and how do I find her?

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

_“.@taylorhamtakes @aGirlisN0one @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump @Cernovich @PizzaPartyBen how do you know that and how do I find her?”_

.@BasedReporter @CassandraRules @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump Thank you

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 28, 2016

“.@BasedReporter @CassandraRules @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump Thank you”

.@sarahmint @taylorhamtakes No. still hoping

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 29, 2016

_“.@sarahmint @taylorhamtakes No. still hoping”_

.@mimiminniti @sarahmint @taylorhamtakes yes!

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 29, 2016

_“.@mimiminniti @sarahmint @taylorhamtakes yes!”_

.@russellwiley @ClydeStones @sarahmint @taylorhamtakes If anyone knows who the thugs are, call law enforcement immediately with their names.

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 29, 2016

*“.@russellwiley @ClydeStones @sarahmint @taylorhamtakes If anyone knows who the thugs are, call law enforcement immediately with their names.”*

.@PaulaGail4 @Cernovich @HeavenPeaceLove @aGirlisN0one @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump @PizzaPartyBen rest assured…I will

— Michael Cohen (@MichaelCohen212) October 29, 2016

_“Michael Cohen ‏@MichaelCohen212 39s39 seconds ago Manhattan, NY
.@PaulaGail4 @Cernovich @HeavenPeaceLove @aGirlisN0one @DiamondandSilk @realDonaldTrump @PizzaPartyBen rest assured…I will”_

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## RabzonKhan

Donnie (Putin's puppet) and his supporters are spreading false propaganda that if Hillary is elected she will start World War III. Isn't that rich, this comes from the madman, who wants to use nuclear weapons in the Middle East. 





*Trump World War Talk: Is Donald Trump Puppet Parroting Putin and Russian Claims President Hillary Clinton Will Start World War 3 In Syrian Civil War?*

By Daniel Ketchum

*The Donald Trump World War 3 talk we heard yesterday could be viewed as a sign of desperation by Trump’s campaign as they look at his likely crushing defeat in the 2016 election. *Trump’s drop in recent election polls results make this a possible answer for Trump’s world war rhetoric, but another possibility is that he is being influenced by similar statements by Putin in Russia.

*The Trump world war warning is odd, given that Donald Trump was asking only a few months ago in security briefings why he couldn’t just use nuclear weapons whenever he wanted to as president. He hardly seems like the one to be judging the future policies of President Hillary Clinton.*

*But is Trump’s accusation that a President Hillary Clinton administration will expand the Syrian Civil War into a World War Donald Trump’s idea, or is it Vladimir Putin’s? Is Donald Trump Putin’s puppet after all?*

*Putin and Trump*

*World War rhetoric is hardly unusual when coming from the Kremlin propaganda machine, but it’s a little more unsettling when the Republican nominee for president of the United States starts parroting what Putin and his cronies are saying.* And as _ABC News_ reports, the Russians have a certainly been talking about a world war in the media.

But throughout the 2016 election campaign, Donald Trump has made his admiration of – and even fondness for – Vladimir Putin clear. It’s led many people in the West to view Trump as nothing more than a puppet of the Putin regime – *what Vladimir Lenin referred to as a “useful idiot.”*

The Trump Putin bromance is deeply unsettling for both Democratic and Republican politicians. Even Speaker of the House Paul Ryan has condemned Donald Trump for praising Putin on a regular basis. Certainly, *Ronald Reagan would be spinning in his grave to hear the supposed leader of the Republican Party throwing in with a Russian dictator.*

*World War 3 Politics*

Using the threat of a new world war to try to influence voters in an upcoming election is – somewhat surprisingly for younger voters – not a new approach for a presidential candidate. Long before Donald Trump brought up the subject of World War 3 in the 2016 election, Lyndon Johnson was doing something very similar in a 1964 anti-Goldwater commercial.






But this kind of fear mongering rhetoric about the opponent in a presidential campaign starting a World War if elected should probably be out of bounds — whether Democrats or Republicans are behind it. Of course, in the current election it wasn’t “nasty woman” Hillary Clinton saying it, but Donald Trump.

*The Donald Trump Puppet*

Many commentators have noted Donald Trump’s fondness for self-praise. But if there’s anything Trump likes more than praising himself, it’s hearing someone else do it. This may be one reason why he’s so fond of Vladimir Putin and Russia, since Putin and his Kremlin minions have frequently said nice things about Trump.

*But there could be another reason why Donald Trump seems perfectly willing to repeat Putin’s World War 3 propaganda. Donald Trump has close business ties with Russia, having received hundreds of millions of dollars from Russia and Russian business interests over the last few years.*

As reported by _ABC News_, one of Donald Trump’s principal supporters — and his former campaign manager in the 2016 election — Paul Manafort has had very close ties to the Kremlin for years. Manafort received large sums of money helping Russia try to keep a pro-Russian dictator in place in the Ukraine.

Do the Donald Trump World War 3 claims prove that he’s just a puppet of Russian dictator Vladimir Putin? No, they don’t. But the alternative is almost worse. It could be that Donald Trump has no views of his own on world international relations, and simply grabs on to anything he sees in the media, such as Putin’s claims that American “aggression” in the Syrian Civil War will start a third world war. *Link*

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## maximuswarrior

How nasty and messy can it get? Just 11 days before the election the Republican FBI chief gets into the act LOL Now how suspicious is that? The most erratic elections ever.


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## EgyptianAmerican

T-72 said:


> we'll see in 10 days or so
> 
> 
> btw, not aware of your political leanings or situation but Mr Trump met the good General earlier when he was down for some UN business
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> very presidential


Trump won't critique Sisi while he is deporting millions of innocent people, hence why he likes him. That and all you need to do to become a personal favorite of donald trump is to praise him. Sissi is looking for that aid money like an idiot to spend on the military instead of fixing the economy.

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Did you even read my post (1908) and watched the video that I posted?
> 
> And where are you getting this cheap propaganda from “communist leaning minority” and “single mom votes”. Poll after poll has shown that majority of Blacks, Hispanics, Asians (highly educated and many of them owned small businesses) women, young and voters with college degree are supporting her, on the other hand, Trump support comes from mostly white men without college degree and of course, the racist scums.


If your concern is hate and violence then you have more to fear Hillary and her supporters who don't even spare homeless people from their violent, anti-free speech attacks. Hillary's campaign paid mentally disturbed people to go and disrupt Trump rallies and attack Trump supporters, and yet you're here b!tching about "racist scum"? When was the last time massive groups of Trump supporters jumped and hunted down Hillary supporters outside a Hillary rally like Hillary supporters did to Trump supporters in San Jose? The so called "alt-right" you keep bringing up is basically non-existent in real life, it's just a movement of a bunch of internet trolls who have nothing better to do than to trigger SJW morons who react like cry babies when their pacifier is taken away from them  and that is what feeds the trolls (honestly, i don't blame the trolls, if i could get a reaction like that out of someone then i would do it for the sake of amusement too). The only reason why the "alt-right" exists is because of SJW culture, ie; getting easily offended by words (freedom of speech).

Outside every Trump rally Trump supporters get brutally beat up and intimidated, Trump signs get stolen, Trump supporters properties get vandalized. Anyone wearing a MAGA hat gets attacked *for exercising their Freedom of Expression (a Constitutional RIGHT)*. Anyone openly voicing their support for Trump receive death threats, lose their jobs, are called racists, bigots, xenophobes, sexists, and all of those other politically correct buzzwords meant to suppress free speech. The fact that Trump supporters don't allow any of this to intimidate them from expressing their support for Trump goes to show their resilience and enthusiasm (something Hillary's (paid) "supporters" lack) and their commitment to preserving America.

People like YOU and your fellow Hillary supporters who fabricate and then propagate falsehoods, who cannot tolerate others *right to freedom of expression, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of association*, *etc.. prove Trump right* when he said that we should only allow those into America who are willing to honor, accept, and preserve our American Values (highlighted in bold), which YOU don't. After seeing all of the violence, bigotry, intolerance, blatant lies and unprecedented corruption from the Hillary camp and yet despite that you still support her only goes to show the kind of people Americans, due to their gullibility and naivety, have allowed into their ranks only so that you could throw dirt on their values by supporting a corrupt politician and her supporters who would do everything in their power to sh!t on the a rights of their fellow Americans to further their own agenda. People like YOU will stop at nothing until you turn this country into just another third world banana republic where using violence to suppress political dissent and opposing views will be the norm, where there will be no one to check the corruption in government and justice and law and order will take a back seat to everything else.



RabzonKhan said:


> Donnie (Putin's puppet) and his supporters are spreading false propaganda that if Hillary is elected she will start World War III. Isn't that rich, this comes from the madman, who wants to use nuclear weapons in the Middle East.
> 
> View attachment 347399
> 
> *Trump World War Talk: Is Donald Trump Puppet Parroting Putin and Russian Claims President Hillary Clinton Will Start World War 3 In Syrian Civil War?*
> 
> By Daniel Ketchum
> 
> *The Donald Trump World War 3 talk we heard yesterday could be viewed as a sign of desperation by Trump’s campaign as they look at his likely crushing defeat in the 2016 election. *Trump’s drop in recent election polls results make this a possible answer for Trump’s world war rhetoric, but another possibility is that he is being influenced by similar statements by Putin in Russia.
> 
> *The Trump world war warning is odd, given that Donald Trump was asking only a few months ago in security briefings why he couldn’t just use nuclear weapons whenever he wanted to as president. He hardly seems like the one to be judging the future policies of President Hillary Clinton.*
> 
> *But is Trump’s accusation that a President Hillary Clinton administration will expand the Syrian Civil War into a World War Donald Trump’s idea, or is it Vladimir Putin’s? Is Donald Trump Putin’s puppet after all?*
> 
> *Putin and Trump*
> 
> *World War rhetoric is hardly unusual when coming from the Kremlin propaganda machine, but it’s a little more unsettling when the Republican nominee for president of the United States starts parroting what Putin and his cronies are saying.* And as _ABC News_ reports, the Russians have a certainly been talking about a world war in the media.
> 
> But throughout the 2016 election campaign, Donald Trump has made his admiration of – and even fondness for – Vladimir Putin clear. It’s led many people in the West to view Trump as nothing more than a puppet of the Putin regime – *what Vladimir Lenin referred to as a “useful idiot.”*
> 
> The Trump Putin bromance is deeply unsettling for both Democratic and Republican politicians. Even Speaker of the House Paul Ryan has condemned Donald Trump for praising Putin on a regular basis. Certainly, *Ronald Reagan would be spinning in his grave to hear the supposed leader of the Republican Party throwing in with a Russian dictator.*
> 
> *World War 3 Politics*
> 
> Using the threat of a new world war to try to influence voters in an upcoming election is – somewhat surprisingly for younger voters – not a new approach for a presidential candidate. Long before Donald Trump brought up the subject of World War 3 in the 2016 election, Lyndon Johnson was doing something very similar in a 1964 anti-Goldwater commercial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But this kind of fear mongering rhetoric about the opponent in a presidential campaign starting a World War if elected should probably be out of bounds — whether Democrats or Republicans are behind it. Of course, in the current election it wasn’t “nasty woman” Hillary Clinton saying it, but Donald Trump.
> 
> *The Donald Trump Puppet*
> 
> Many commentators have noted Donald Trump’s fondness for self-praise. But if there’s anything Trump likes more than praising himself, it’s hearing someone else do it. This may be one reason why he’s so fond of Vladimir Putin and Russia, since Putin and his Kremlin minions have frequently said nice things about Trump.
> 
> *But there could be another reason why Donald Trump seems perfectly willing to repeat Putin’s World War 3 propaganda. Donald Trump has close business ties with Russia, having received hundreds of millions of dollars from Russia and Russian business interests over the last few years.*
> 
> As reported by _ABC News_, one of Donald Trump’s principal supporters — and his former campaign manager in the 2016 election — Paul Manafort has had very close ties to the Kremlin for years. Manafort received large sums of money helping Russia try to keep a pro-Russian dictator in place in the Ukraine.
> 
> Do the Donald Trump World War 3 claims prove that he’s just a puppet of Russian dictator Vladimir Putin? No, they don’t. But the alternative is almost worse. It could be that Donald Trump has no views of his own on world international relations, and simply grabs on to anything he sees in the media, such as Putin’s claims that American “aggression” in the Syrian Civil War will start a third world war. *Link*


*And what evidence does your Wall Street puppet Hillary have that Trump is working for Putin other than conspiracy theories? *

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## Nilgiri

If @RabzonKhan and @Desert Fox were neighbours:

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## T-72

Shift in the Electorate's Makeup Tightens the Presidential Contest (POLL)

"Sometimes Bill And Hillary Have The Worst Judgment": Wikileaks Releases Part 22 Of Podesta Files; 36,190 Emails Total











https://hillaryspeeches.com/scheduled-events/

looks crooked ILLary will campaign only 7 times before election day as Trump makes 3 or 4 stops a day.

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## Nilgiri

@Rachel Mad-cow


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## maximuswarrior

Let's hope Trump pulls it off by a miracle. He'll surely make America great again. I can't wait for this orange head to guide America in uncharted territory.

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## Darmashkian

RabzonKhan said:


> I just had a laugh of my life.
> 
> As I have been saying repeatedly that Trump is not presidential material, he is an idiot, oh but wait a minute, he's a billionaire, how can he be an idiot, some will say…………..well, it's the age, stupid, he's a 70-year-old who has totally lost his freaking mind. (Now I'm not saying that all 70-year-olds lose their mind)
> 
> The idiot and many of his supporters were praising far left wing Michael Moore’s new film, Michael Moore in TrumpLand, but guess what, they did not even realized that actually the film is pro-Hillary Clinton.
> 
> Michael Moore appearing on the Fox news with Megyn Kelly a few hours after Donnie said he “agrees with Moore's assessment that his campaign is going to be the biggest **** you ever recorded in human history”
> 
> Since the clip is gone viral and has become a rallying cry for Donnie's campaign, Moore told Kelly, the clip that has gone viral in was DOCTORED, it cuts off just before he delivers his primary message, the tape is cut off after Moore says “it will feel good”, but then in the next line (which was cut off) ,he says *“for a day, or maybe a week”, but when you find out that your life isn't going to get any better under Pres. Trump and will probably get worse, that's when you're going to realize what the Brits have realized (Brexit vote BS). *
> 
> “If we elect Donald Trump as president of this country, it won't be the same country after four years”. “I'm absolutely convinced of that”.
> 
> *This is the most vile, disgusting candidates that's ever run for office in this country”.*
> 
> Moore, speaking directly to Donnie supporters on Fox news, said, “I understand why you are angry, you have every right to be angry, the system has failed you, but he is not the solution.
> 
> *Moore said, If Trump had watched the complete film, he wouldn't be promoting it, because the message is to get out and vote for Hillary Clinton.*
> 
> Kelly then asked Moore, “why were you against her when she ran against Obama and you were against her in the primaries, you like that Bernie, you seem to be reluctant Hillary supporter”. Moore said that he doesn't like that she voted for Iraq war and thinks she is too cozy with the Wall Street, the wiki leaks revelations don't bother him at all, “I care about woman should be paid the same as men, I care about the polar ice caps melting, the big big issues, we have a choice between somebody who is smart, who has a heart, who's going to stand up for kids and for families and working people and we have a billionaire who just say this these things trying to pretend that he cares”. Watch the entire video and have fun.
> 
> Damn idiot's tweak.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/791738173462310912
> 
> Micheal Moore to Trump Supporters: He is The Most "Vile," "Disgusting" Candidate Ever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Darmashkian the clip you posted was doctored (*Link*), you seem like a good person, but sorry to say you are supporting a jackass, the man is a total embarrassment.


Hehe Who said I supported Trump? As I said before,I am just studying & going through this election because it is very different compared to the previous ones. Never before has such a candidate come so close to winning POTUS. Even Stephen Hawking & the GOP elite have no explanation for such a phenomena ever happening.

Hillary is just..... I'm sorry to say a typical establishment politico who is corrupt & boring unlike Trump who is very interesting & funny->publicly talking of jailing Hillary is a good example

Yes I admit a small part of me wants Trump to win to see the impact of his election on the USA & how he will "govern" the nation. But it is a small part.
*Frankly speaking both candidate suck,I have made this clear many times even while talking with LAsekarachi & KAl-El. I am not going to debate who is worse.*

& secondly read Micheal Moore's writings(5 reasons why Trump will win-post ) & my previous posts on this carefully.
He is a hard core leftie & opposes Trump totally,but he has illustrated really good reasons why so many Americans(Especially from the working class) support him. i NEVER indicated he supported Trump,Never. But he correctly illustrated why so many people support him. He has illustrated the strong hatred of the establishment among millions of Americans, they don't like Trump,but they hate DC more...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
& lastly,I should be the one laughing,not you. Tens of Millions of your fellow Americans love this guy  He has taken on women,muslims & many other groups. He has few consistent policy views & yet he is winning this election??

Neo-Nazis,White nationalists & supremacists LOVE this guy ..... & he is still in the running  So much for a tolerant multi-culti USA.

USA gives lectures to the rest of the world on religious freedom & one candidate with atleast 40%+ support proudly talks of banning Muslims from it.. LOL

& what's even more funny is that despite his impulsiveness,ignorance,arrogance & multiple flaws,he still has tens of millions of fans actually love him for that & he is still close to winning

The world is laughing,horrified & baffled at what is currently happening in USA. You should be very concerned the way Tens of Millions of Americans on both sides think..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/792106968479625221
*The American nation & it's elite should be the one embarrassed & concerned that such a guy could get this far in your nation,*that the guy who is Pro-Russia & has links with the Kremlin is close to becoming the POTUS & the leader of 'the free world' & NATO. Wasn't he asking his advisors a few weeks ago why can't we use nukes??
[If he starts a nuclear war,we are blaming the USA for it,though I don't think he will]

& the racists,xenophobes,white power guys have come out as his supporters in the open... & even if he loses they are going nowhere. They will stay & continue voting & if the time comes,turn to violence! Trump could be the beginning for all you know,he is not the end but the beginning. Now even if HC wins,immigration "reform" will be tougher to pass cause the Repubs will be anxious to keep all the anti-illegal immigration voters with them for example.

Trump's rise has shown that the masses are sick to death of the Leftist PC of their self-serving elite & want to give them a tight slap for the damage they have done! The fact that there are Tens of Millions of such people should keep any of the elite from sleeping at night.

& let me be clear,I hate the self-serving elite & MSM of any nation including mine & yours,that's why you think I support Trump.They are totally against him & that's why I post against them or attack them.

I don't like Trump & wouldn't vote/support him,but I hate & despire the Elite!

Had Sanders been the Dem nominee vs Jeb Bush, you would think I support Sanders(though I don't like him too,too socialistic for me)



maximuswarrior said:


> Let's hope Trump pulls it off by a miracle. He'll surely make America great again. I can't wait for this orange head to guide America in uncharted territory.


Hehe... how much do you think the American stocks(NASDAQ) on a whole will fall by on the day the results come out & this guy wins??

I am guessing15-20% , but there will be some exceptions like construction companies & the Fossil fuel ones. The mexican currency too will go down if he wins


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## Desert Fox

LMAO!!! CNN (*C*linton *N*ews *N*etwork) Just Got Thrashed Live:






​

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## T-72

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...clinton-emails-kass-1030-20161028-column.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/30/us/politics/huma-abedin-anthony-weiner-clinton.html?_r=0

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d-reaction-to-fbis-review-of-clinton-e-mails/

Nice, looks like even liberal publications (nyt/wapo) are giving the event and related fallout in the polls some good coverage in this final stretch. 

Expect the crooked clinton crime syndicate to try and strike back with another salacious scandal (which is about all they have ever managed on Trump) anytime now. I think he's probably wrapped this us by now *if* he doesn't fumble and give them any new _substantive_ ammo to use against him these next few days, weak sauce like Trump being an asshole 15 years ago to some random beauty queen type stuff just wont cut it in the face of crooked hillary being investigated by the FBI for criminal/professional misconduct while serving as the United State's secretary of state.

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> LMAO!!! CNN (*C*linton *N*ews *N*etwork) Just Got Thrashed Live:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​



Excellent.

I am looking forward to a media "revolution" after trump becomes president.

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## RabzonKhan

Republican used to dominate early voting, but in this election Democrats are not just catching up, but in many states are ahead of Republicans.


*Clinton enjoys solid lead in early voting: Reuters/Ipsos poll*

By Maurice Tamman | NEW YORK 10/30/2016


With 11 days to go before the U.S. presidential election, Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton leads Republican Donald Trump by 15 percentage points among early voters surveyed in the past two weeks, according to the Reuters/Ipsos States of the Nation project.

*Though data is not available for all early voting states, Clinton enjoys an edge in swing states such as Ohio and Arizona and in Republican Party strongholds such as Georgia and Texas.*

*An estimated 19 million Americans have voted so far in the election, according to the University of Florida’s United States Election Project, accounting for as much as 20 percent of the electorate.*

Overall, Clinton remained on track to win a majority of votes in the Electoral College, the Reuters/Ipsos survey showed.

Having so many ballots locked down before the Nov. 8 election is good news for the Clinton campaign. On Friday, the Federal Bureau of Investigation announced that it is examining newly discovered emails belonging to Clinton’s close aide, Huma Abedin. Those emails were found on a computer belonging to Anthony Weiner, Abedin’s estranged husband, during an unrelated investigation into illicit messages he is alleged to have sent to a teenage girl. The Reuters/Ipsos survey was conducted before the news emerged Friday afternoon.

It remains unclear whether the FBI inquiry will upset the balance in the race. The bureau disclosed nothing about the Abedin emails, including whether any of the messages were sent by or to Clinton. Over the summer, the FBI said it was closing its investigation into Clinton’s use of a private email system while secretary of state. Until Friday, her campaign seemed to have weathered the initial FBI email probe.

Clinton has held a lead averaging four to seven percentage points in polls in recent weeks as the Trump campaign wrestled with accusations by women of groping and other sexual advances. Trump has said none of the accusations are true. He also struggled in the recent presidential debates and faced questions about his taxes.

As of Thursday, Clinton’s odds of receiving the 270 Electoral College votes needed to win the presidency remained at greater than 95 percent, according to State of the Nation polling results released Saturday. The project estimated she would win by 320 votes to 218, with 278 votes solidly for the Democrat.

*Clinton’s lead among early voters is similar to the lead enjoyed by President Barack Obama over Republican Mitt Romney at this point of the 2012 race, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll taken at the time. Obama won the election by 332 electoral votes to Romney’s 206.*

But even before the latest email news, it had been a difficult week for Clinton. News coverage of Trump’s accusers had diminished, while Clinton confronted the almost daily release by WikiLeaks of emails purportedly hacked from her campaign manager’s account. This week’s leaked messages raised questions about former President Bill Clinton’s finances.

And her lead in the States of the Nation project fell slightly from last week. Though the projected Electoral College votes hardly moved, the number of states solidly for Clinton slid from 25 to 20 this week. Trump didn’t see any additional states tilt solidly to him, but he did see some gains: The swing states of Pennsylvania, Colorado, Iowa and Nevada all moved from leaning to Clinton to being too close to call.

*Still, Trump’s path to a victory is narrow, and any realistic chance rests on his winning Ohio, North Carolina and Florida. As of Thursday, Ohio remained a toss-up. Florida and North Carolina were still tilting toward Clinton, according to the States of the Nation results.*

Early voting data for Florida and North Carolina was not yet available this week. In Ohio, Clinton led Trump by double digits among early voters. The project’s broader polling suggests the state is deadlocked between the two candidates.

*In Arizona, Clinton also was solidly ahead among early voters. In the past month, Arizona has gradually moved from a solid Trump state to a marginal Clinton state, although it is still too close to call, according to the project results.*

*In Georgia, she enjoyed a similar lead among early voters. Overall, Georgia leans to Trump, but his lead narrowed to five percentage points this week, down from eights points last week and 13 points a month ago.*

*Even in Texas, where Trump enjoys a sizable lead, Clinton has a double-digit edge among early voters, according to project results.*

The States of the Nation project is a survey of about 15,000 people every week in all 50 states plus Washington D.C. State by state results are available by visiting here




Meanwhile a Trump supporter was arrested for voter fraud.

*Voter fraud suspect arrested in Des Moines*

A Des Moines woman has been arrested on suspicion of voting twice this month in the general election, police and court records show.

Terri Lynn Rote, 55, was booked into the Polk County Jail about 3:40 p.m. Thursday on a first-degree election misconduct charge, which is a Class D felony.

Rote, a registered Republican, reportedly cast an early voting ballot at the Polk County Election Office, 120 Second Ave., and another ballot at a county satellite voting location in Des Moines, according to a Des Moines police report.

Rote was one of three voter fraud suspects reported to police Wednesday by the Polk County Auditor's Office. *Read more*



T-72 said:


> yes I did, and so what ? Trump is a busy guy, obviously hasn't watched the movie, what he does agree with is Moore's analysis of disaffected citizens putting him in office, which they will.


Trump is promoting a doctored video, that's fraud, and you're telling me so what, “he is a busy man”, amazing. 



> there you go deriding regular people and Trump supporters again, could it be that the coastal elite have a bit of a disconnect with the 'murrican heartland ?
> 
> Native whites, along with common sense minority voters who don't want ww3, will overwhelm the ballot to offset any big advantage she has with her core demographic of left leaning betas, SJWs, feminists and minorities, of which not all will be rabid followers and fans, but many will use this as a sign of protest, Trump their human wrecking ball/grenade/molotov cocktail, call him what you will.


I just told you what the polls are showing, you on the other hand, are just making up stories.



Nilgiri said:


> If @RabzonKhan and @Desert Fox were neighbours:


My home is better looking

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## Desert Fox

T-72 said:


> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...clinton-emails-kass-1030-20161028-column.html
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/30/us/politics/huma-abedin-anthony-weiner-clinton.html?_r=0
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d-reaction-to-fbis-review-of-clinton-e-mails/
> 
> Nice, looks like even liberal publications (nyt/wapo) are giving the event and related fallout in the polls some good coverage in this final stretch.
> 
> Expect the crooked clinton crime syndicate to try and strike back with another salacious scandal (which is about all they have ever managed on Trump) anytime now. I think he's probably wrapped this us by now *if* he doesn't fumble and give them any new _substantive_ ammo to use against him these next few days, weak sauce like Trump being an asshole 15 years ago to some random beauty queen type stuff just wont cut it in the face of crooked hillary being investigated by the FBI for criminal/professional misconduct while serving as the United State's secretary of state.



At this point they have to, otherwise they risk looking like a bunch of buffoons if they overlook this whole mess.

LMAO, Hillary is sh!tting her pants over this new FBI investigation, whatta cry baby ha ha

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## Desert Fox

Wow this is fukced up, Hillary Clinton doesn't even spare dead Black people for her political gains @Nilgiri @T-72 @C130 @boomslang


*Eric Garner's Daughter Blasts Clinton Campaign After Latest WikiLeaks Emails Revelation*​



The Hillary Clinton campaign came under fire from Erica Garner on Thursday, the daughter of Eric Garner who was killed by a police officer in New York City, after the latest batch of emails released by WikiLeaks revealed how the Democratic presidential nominee talked about her father’s death.

In a series of tweets, Garner expressed anger at the information that poured out from the email release.

*“I’m troubled by the revelation that you and this campaign actually discussed ‘using’ Eric Garner … Why would you want to ‘use my dad?”* she said. “These people will co opt anything to push their agenda. Police violence is not the same as gun violence.

*WIKILEAKS: CLINTON VP LIST DIVIDED INTO RACE, GENDER 'FOOD GROUPS'*

“I'm vey (sic) interested to know exactly what @CoreyCiorciari meant when he said ‘I know we have an Erica Garner problem’ in the #PodestaEmails19,” she added.

Garner also tweeted out links to hacked emails from Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta that show staffers trying to figure out how to word an editorial on gun violence that would later run in the New York Daily News.

“I know we have Erica Garner issues but we don't want to mention Eric at all? I can see her coming after us for leaving him out of the piece,” Clinton press secretary Nick Merrill wrote in an email.

Another aide Maya Harris chimed in saying, “Eric Garner not included because not killed by gun violence.”

Garner responded to that quip, saying she was glad that the Clinton team had Harris to explain why they wouldn’t use her father in the gun violence piece.

Eric Garner died in July 2014 after he resisted arrest for allegedly selling cigarettes illegally in Staten Island. Officer Daniel Pantaleo was seen on video taking Garner down with a chokehold. Garner died minutes later.

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> Wow this is fukced up, Hillary Clinton doesn't even spare dead Black people for her political gains @Nilgiri @T-72 @C130 @boomslang
> 
> 
> *Eric Garner's Daughter Blasts Clinton Campaign After Latest WikiLeaks Emails Revelation*​
> View attachment 347642​
> The Hillary Clinton campaign came under fire from Erica Garner on Thursday, the daughter of Eric Garner who was killed by a police officer in New York City, after the latest batch of emails released by WikiLeaks revealed how the Democratic presidential nominee talked about her father’s death.
> 
> In a series of tweets, Garner expressed anger at the information that poured out from the email release.
> 
> *“I’m troubled bey th revelation that you and this campaign actually discussed ‘using’ Eric Garner … Why would you want to ‘use my dad?”* she said. “These people will co opt anything to push their agenda. Police violence is not the same as gun violence.
> 
> *WIKILEAKS: CLINTON VP LIST DIVIDED INTO RACE, GENDER 'FOOD GROUPS'*
> 
> “I'm vey (sic) interested to know exactly what @CoreyCiorciari meant when he said ‘I know we have an Erica Garner problem’ in the #PodestaEmails19,” she added.
> 
> Garner also tweeted out links to hacked emails from Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta that show staffers trying to figure out how to word an editorial on gun violence that would later run in the New York Daily News.
> 
> “I know we have Erica Garner issues but we don't want to mention Eric at all? I can see her coming after us for leaving him out of the piece,” Clinton press secretary Nick Merrill wrote in an email.
> 
> Another aide Maya Harris chimed in saying, “Eric Garner not included because not killed by gun violence.”
> 
> Garner responded to that quip, saying she was glad that the Clinton team had Harris to explain why they wouldn’t use her father in the gun violence piece.
> 
> Eric Garner died in July 2014 after he resisted arrest for allegedly selling cigarettes illegally in Staten Island. Officer Daniel Pantaleo was seen on video taking Garner down with a chokehold. Garner died minutes later.



Well hildabeest knows shes done if she loses, so has to throw absolutely every dirty trick and kitchen sink at the "deplorables" and "average americans" that she despises.

I am very pleased that finally a character like Trump has come around and not some typical republican establishment twit....its showing everyone exactly what the democrat political class is....and you can only vote for them under the guise of welfarism and leftism. Everything else (morals, leadership, ethics, maintaining world peace, social stability) has been thoroughly exposed to be a sham. You can only vote for this hag for free (short term) welfare....and hold your nose (if you have any decency) when you receive it.

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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> Well hildabeest knows shes done if she loses, so has to throw absolutely every dirty trick and kitchen sink at the "deplorables" and "average americans" that she despises.
> 
> I am very pleased that finally a character like Trump has come around and not some typical republican establishment twit....its showing everyone exactly what the democrat political class is....and you can only vote for them under the guise of welfarism and leftism. Everything else (morals, leadership, ethics, maintaining world peace, social stability) has been thoroughly exposed to be a sham. You can only vote for this hag for free (short term) welfare....and hold your nose (if you have any decency) when you receive it.


Trump really has been a great blessing in disguise for America. His running for President has exposed not only the Republican twits and that fake Socialist wannabe Bernie who betrayed his own supporters by endorsing the crazy hag, to be nothing more than controlled opposition supported by the same elitist special interest groups, but the mainstream media has also shown its true colors with its one sided coverage of the Presidential campaign and the non-stop round-th e-clock attacks on Donald Trump while completely ignoring Hillary's corruption scandals and the wikileaks exposure of her back door deals and two-faced stance on important issues, thus losing the 4% of credibility they even had left within the American people.

Trump truly is the "human molotov", the "biggest f*ck you" to the establishment.

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## LA se Karachi

Desert Fox said:


> fake Socialist wannabe Bernie who *betrayed his own supporters by endorsing the crazy hag*




Lol. He didn't "betray" anyone. A majority of his supporters are going to vote for her. That's a fact:





_http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilass...porters-backing-hillary-clinton/#592f2c21ba03_


They don't like her. But they hate Trump more, and that's why they will vote for her. Anyone is better than Trump.

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## Desert Fox

Apparently Hillary is above the law and to investigate her is to "damage our democracy". Is there any media/news outlet that hasn't been whored out to the Clintons? @Nilgiri @T-72 @boomslang @C130 

Clinton Mouthpiece Washington Post Cries Foul At FBI Director Comey For Doing His Job

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## T-72

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump is promoting a doctored video, that's fraud, and you're telling me so what, “he is a busy man”, amazing.


what is the "doctored" part in that Moore video ?

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## Desert Fox

Bernie, the fake Socialist, betrayed his own supporters by endorsing the ISIS supporting Corporate hag Hillary. Too bad he hasn't returned the millions in donations back to his supporters , what a fakester. Pi$$ed on his own people and now he's chilling in his new $600,000 home in Vermont (his THIRD HOME) while millions of his supporters are dirt poor and could barely afford their own apartment. Whatever happened to his Communist ideals?  No wonder he endorsed the corrupt Witch, because he's no different from her. Which is why millions of his supporters were disappointed in him when he went back on his words LMAO!!.


*Hillary Clinton has already made it clear she wants to start a Nuclear war with Russia in order to protect "moderate" Terrorists (AKA ISIS)*. Anyone claiming that the crazy hag Hillary is better than Trump lacks sanity.

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## LA se Karachi

Desert Fox said:


> Bernie, the fake Socialist, betrayed his own supporters by endorsing the ISIS supporting Corporate hag Hillary. Too bad he hasn't returned the millions in donations back to his supporters , what a fakester. Pi$$ed on his own people and now he's chilling in his new $600,000 home in Vermont (his THIRD HOME), whatever happened to his Communist ideals?  No wonder he endorsed the corrupt Witch, because he's no different from her. Which is why millions of his supporters were disappointed in him when he went back on his words LMAO!!.




Bernie, the life-long progressive, is a "fakester"? But the "populist" former reality TV star Manhattan billionaire isn't? Lol. And sorry to burst your bubble yet again, but Bernie's supporters are mostly voting for Clinton. Meanwhile, very few are voting for Trump. He's still a senator and will continue to fight for his ideas. 

While "successful capitalist" Trump will likely go back to running businesses into the ground, and claiming huge tax breaks from the government. What a fake...

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## T-72

*Donald Trump Rally in Greeley, CO 10/30/16 *





*Donald Trump Rally in Albuquerque, NM *




*

Donald Trump Rally in Las Vegas, NV *











Meanwhile crooked hillary campaigned at a Miami bar and drew a huge crowd of 5 people* 





*
crazy, and then there was the Kaine rally from a few days ago where 30 people showed up*, *I also noticed that she does quite a few campaign stops, that is, going to an event where people are already there for either a concert or a party or whatever, not specifically for her*, *because nobody wants to see her*. 


*

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## LA se Karachi



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## Clutch

Desert Fox said:


> Bernie, the fake Socialist, betrayed his own supporters by endorsing the ISIS supporting Corporate hag Hillary. Too bad he hasn't returned the millions in donations back to his supporters , what a fakester. Pi$$ed on his own people and now he's chilling in his new $600,000 home in Vermont (his THIRD HOME) while millions of his supporters are dirt poor and could barely afford their own apartment. Whatever happened to his Communist ideals?  No wonder he endorsed the corrupt Witch, because he's no different from her. Which is why millions of his supporters were disappointed in him when he went back on his words LMAO!!.
> 
> 
> *Hillary Clinton has already made it clear she wants to start a Nuclear war with Russia in order to protect "moderate" Terrorists (AKA ISIS)*. Anyone claiming that the crazy hag Hillary is better than Trump lacks sanity.
> 
> 
> View attachment 347666
> 
> 
> View attachment 347667
> 
> 
> View attachment 347669
> 
> 
> View attachment 347668​




Isis are overrated hacks... they just came around in the age of youtube and scared the piss out of others.

What ever happened to Al Qaeeda?... the boogie man of yesterday. These terrorists are pathetic laughable looser... but what is more entertaining are looser who are scared shytless ... the elites use these boogie men to keep the dim witted in line...

The only force on the planet actually fighting these terrorists in the Pak Army.. And we're kicking their khawarji arse.


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## T-72

Clutch said:


> Isis are overrated hacks... they just came around in the age of youtube and scared the piss out of others.
> 
> What ever happened to Al Qaeeda?... the boogie man of yesterday. These terrorists are pathetic laughable looser... but what is more entertaining are looser who are scared shytless ... the elites use these boogie men to keep the dim witted in line...
> 
> The only force on the planet actually fighting these terrorists in the Pak Army.. And we're kicking their khawarji arse.


overrated hacks, like a junior varsity team ?  

Trump is big league, he'll take care of them.

Al Qaeda are now the Syrian "rebels", its not fair to the American taxpayer that crooked politicians like hillary clinton want to arm and finance those scumbag jihadis with their money. Trump will dump them, ally with Putin, bomb the shit out of them and end the war.


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## Clutch

T-72 said:


> overrated hacks, like a junior varsity team ?
> 
> Trump is big league, he'll take care of them.
> 
> Al Qaeda are now the Syrian "rebels", its not fair to the American taxpayer that crooked politicians like hillary clinton want to arm and finance those scumbag jihadis with their money. Trump will dump them, ally with Putin, bomb the shit out of them and end the war.




Nah... the whole Isis, al Qaeeda types are over rated... they scare the crappie out of whitie.. Mexican Christian drug lords have beheaded thousands in Mexican drug wars... they just didn't youtube it.

We ( Pakistani army) know how to handle them terrorists by kicking their arse...

in Syria... Putin is in league with the shia extremists .. it's a shia Sunni civil war... Russia is aligned with the shia i.e Assad (who is shia) and Iran who is also shia... ultimately the Sunni are doomed because they (Saudi and Co.) over played their hand with the khawarji bloodletters... ultimately the war will end up at Israels doorsteps with the shia knocking on its door with the Russians as backup... " End the War"... lol... American shortsightedness and ignorance is comical...


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## T-72

Clutch said:


> Nah... the whole Isis, al Qaeeda types are over rated... they scare the crappie out of whitie.. We know how to handle them... Putin is in league with them too... it's a shia Sunni civil war... Russia is aligned with the shia i.e Assad (who is shia) and Iran who is also shia... ultimately the Sunni are doomed because they (Saudi and Co.) over played their hand with the khawarji bloodletters... ultimately the war will end up at Israels doorsteps with the shia knocking on its door with the Russians as backup... American shortsightedness and ignorance is comical...


we'll see, I don't want to get into the weeds of that discussion in this thread but if elected, Trump will move quickly and decisively to end the savagery and restore order in Iraq/Syria, crooked hillary, otoh, will make it much much worse, that much is for sure.

_you watch _


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## Clutch

T-72 said:


> we'll see, I don't want to get into the weeds of that discussion in this thread but if elected, Trump will move quickly and decisively to end the savagery and restore order in Iraq/Syria, crooked hillary, otoh, will make it much much worse, that much is for sure.
> 
> _you watch _


I don't care about Trump... he is a tool... it's corporate America that controls America and by and large the globe... we are just pawns... Trump is a nobody.. 

American century is coming to an end fast... no turning around that. You can't "bring back jobs" ... they are gone forever... American (whites) are too lazy to work as hard as the Asians in a globalized world... 

Sorry ... to burst your bubble.


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## T-72

Clutch said:


> I don't care about Trump... he is a tool... it's corporate America that controls America and by and large the globe... we are just pawns... Trump is a nobody..
> 
> American century is coming to an end fast... no turning around that. You can't "bring back jobs" ... they are gone forever... American (whites) are too lazy to work as hard as the Asians in a globalized world...
> 
> Sorry ... to burst your bubble.


no bubble here, hillary and Trump are each proposing radically divergent ideas on how to take American foreign policy forward, can't wait to see how this pans out.


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## Azeri440

Clutch said:


> I don't care about Trump... he is a tool... it's corporate America that controls America and by and large the globe... we are just pawns... Trump is a nobody..
> 
> American century is coming to an end fast... no turning around that. You can't "bring back jobs" ... they are gone forever... American (whites) are too lazy to work as hard as the Asians in a globalized world...
> 
> Sorry ... to burst your bubble.



I love how you talk about "corporate America" as some sort of evil organization, "corporate America" is responsible for the technological center of the world 

Jobs will come back, they will just go to robots, that's why countries with massive population will be facing equally massive problems in the future

"white Americans" aren't lazy, they just been moving towards higher paying jobs after NAFTA, that's what free trade does
it moves production to cheap countries while opening higher quality jobs in home countries 

and if American century is over, who is next? America controls the biggest consumer market in the world, not just itself but also its European allies, that's why American century will not be over as easily as you imagine

Then there is China, that still has massive economic gap with US, and will grow much slower in 2016 
the GDP gap will grow actually further in 2016 between US and China 
https://knoema.com/nwnfkne/world-gdp-ranking-2016-data-and-charts-forecast

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## maximuswarrior

LOL let this Trump b!tch win. The rest of the world is rubbing their hands to get it on. ISIS will flourish under Trump.

Russia is going to own the US under Trump. The Chinese are laughing their a$$ off with this clown in the office. No one is going to take the US seriously and it will be the last nail in the coffin. The Americans are already a divided bunch. Mexicans, Muslims, African Americans and other minorities are blamed for all the problems in the US. The white man is the victim and Trump is his savior and messiah LMAO Man, it is going to be so much fun with Trump the clown winning the elections. Not a day will go by dull. I say, let this clown win. Let him win big. We are going to feast big time.


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## Clutch

Azeri440 said:


> I love how you talk about "corporate America" as some sort of evil organization, "corporate America" is responsible for the technological center of the world
> 
> Jobs will come back, they will just go to robots, that's why countries with massive population will be facing equally massive problems in the future
> 
> "white Americans" aren't lazy, they just been moving towards higher paying jobs after NAFTA, that's what free trade does
> it moves production to cheap countries while opening higher quality jobs in home countries
> 
> and if American century is over, who is next? America controls the biggest consumer market in the world, not just itself but also its European allies, that's why American century will not be over as easily as you imagine
> 
> Then there is China, that still has massive economic gap with US, and will grow much slower in 2016
> the GDP gap will grow actually further in 2016 between US and China
> https://knoema.com/nwnfkne/world-gdp-ranking-2016-data-and-charts-forecast


I never said corporate America was evil... i said it is a fact of life in which American democracy is fractured. Corporations are not moral or immoral... they are amoral. Trump or Hillary... white privilege America ain't coming back. Unless there are the proverbial "gas Chambers" involved. Then yes, the old white America would be back... that's what Trumpers are secretly hoping for. But it would be an insular isolationist America. Because that America cannot compete in the global economy... corporate America will never allow that to happen.

You are right about automation. That is coming. Too bad all the programmers and engineers are Asian immigrants!

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## maximuswarrior

Clutch said:


> I never said corporate America was evil... i said it is a fact of life in which American democracy is fractured. Corporations are not moral or immoral... they are amoral. Trump or Hillary... white privilege America ain't coming back. Unless there are the proverbial "gas Chambers" involved. Then yes, the old white America would be back... that's what Trumpers are secretly hoping for. But it would be an insular isolationist America. Because that America cannot compete in the global economy... corporate America will never allow that to happen.
> 
> You are right about automation. That is coming. Too bad all the programmers and engineers are Asian immigrants!



Couldn't agree more. Corporate America would never allow someone like Trump to win. This guy stands for jobs at home and protectionism on steroids. Something corporate America won't accept.


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## Solomon2

RabzonKhan said:


> So you really think Hillary Clinton's e-mail issue is more harmful then Trumps hate and fear mongering based campaign?


I've been sure Trump's "hate and fear mongering based campaign" has been exaggerated in the press since he added the Muslim immigration freeze platform: it has been touted as racist, but if you really read Trump's statement you'd see it was temporary, until the federal gov't fixes its immigrant screening issues. 



> Here is a report, compiled by the ADL:


I'm most impressed you're quoting from ADL. But do you seek out their information to learn from it, or to pick here and there in an attempt to confirm what your stance is already? The distorted reporting on Trump has brought haters out of the woodwork, but as the ADL points out - and as I've posted previously - these folk are not endorsed by the Trump campaign and are rejected by many Trump supporters. 

(I'm not endorsing Trump here.)



> There are only 10 days left before the election, so far Trump is losing Electoral College battle, it's really going to be very difficult for him to turn battleground states to red, a comeback of this magnitude would be really unprecedented.


It's hard to say for sure. People can say one thing to pollsters yet vote differently on election day, or maybe not go to the voting booth at all.


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## maximuswarrior

Solomon2 said:


> I've been sure Trump's "hate and fear mongering based campaign" has been exaggerated in the press since he added the Muslim immigration freeze platform: it has been touted as racist, but if you really read Trump's statement you'd see it was temporary, until the federal gov't fixes its immigrant screening issues.
> 
> I'm most impressed you're quoting from ADL. But do you seek out their information to learn from it, or to pick here and there in an attempt to confirm what your stance is already? * The distorted reporting on Trump has brought haters out of the woodwork*, but as the ADL points out - and as I've posted previously - these folk are not endorsed by the Trump campaign and are rejected by many Trump supporters.
> 
> (I'm not endorsing Trump here.)
> 
> It's hard to say for sure. People can say one thing to pollsters yet vote differently on election day, or maybe not go to the voting booth at all.



LMAO You must be an avid Trump supporter. Don't say you are not.


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## Solomon2

maximuswarrior said:


> LMAO You must be an avid Trump supporter. Don't say you are not.


How do you arrive at such a conclusion?


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## maximuswarrior

Solomon2 said:


> How do you arrive at such a conclusion?



Read your own post. Not that hard.


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## Solomon2

maximuswarrior said:


> Read your own post. Not that hard.


Pointing out how a candidate's name has been unjustly blackened does not make me a supporter. It means I separate the metal from the dross.


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## maximuswarrior

Solomon2 said:


> Pointing out how a candidate's name has been unjustly blackened does not make me a supporter. It means I separate the metal from the dross.



LOL Just listen to yourself. You are a closet Trump supporter. You are defending the man who called Mexicans rapists, mocked disabled people and wanted a ban on Muslims.

What I'm so amazed about is how you go on to say that you are not endorsing him. LMAO


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## Solomon2

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL Just listen to yourself. You are a closet Trump supporter.


Do you only see the world in black and white?

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## maximuswarrior

Solomon2 said:


> Do you only see the world in black and white?



Stop fooling people. You are defending the despot. It is for everyone to read. I sincerely hope he becomes your next president. You deserve a despot like him.


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## T-72

Clutch said:


> Too bad all the programmers and engineers are Asian immigrants!


really, all of them ?


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## T-72

Trump rally live: 





coach Bobby Knight "Donald Trump is one tough son of a bitch." 

that he is 

an amazing historic event is unfolding in the US right now, the Trump revolution !


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## RabzonKhan

Pathetic, Trump got a black man kicked out of his rally, the poor man actually was his support. Trump yelled at him “we have a protester, by the way, were you paid 1500 to be a thug”.

Nash County resident C.J. Cary arrived at the Kinston Jet Center Wednesday night in eager anticipation of a Donald Trump rally.

“Cary says he wanted to deliver a note to Trump urging him to be less offensive and more inclusive to four demographic groups: black people, women, people with disabilities and college students”. Cary, an African-American, says he’s an ex-Marine who also worked in Afghanistan as a civilian for the U.S. Army. *Link*








*



Harry Reid accuses Comey of sitting on proof of Trump-Russia ties, possible Hatch Act violation
*
In his last few months in the Senate, Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, isn’t pulling any punches -- especially after the recent revelations by FBI Director James Comey that more emails were found that could be related to the Clinton email probe. 

*The pugilistic Reid, who plans to retire after finishing out this term in Congress, penned a blistering letter to Comey Sunday, accusing the FBI chief of holding back “explosive” information about Donald Trump’s close Russian ties while possibly violating the Hatch Act by reviving the Clinton email investigation. *

“Your actions in recent months have demonstrated a disturbing double standard for the treatment of sensitive information, with what appears to be a clear intent to aid one political party over another,” Reid wrote, adding that through Comey’s “partisan actions, you may have broken the law.”

*The Nevada Democrat went on to insinuate Comey’s violation of the Hatch Act, which prohibits “activity directed towards the success or failure” of a candidate by executive branch employees. *

“[Y]our highly selective approach to publicizing information, along with your timing, was intended for the success or failure of a partisan candidate or political group,” Reid wrote. 

*One example Reid posited of the “selective approach”: Comey’s methods in investigating Donald Trump and his campaign’s possible ties to the Russian government. *

*“In my communications with you and other top officials in the national security community, it has become clear that you possess explosive information about close ties and coordination between Donald Trump, his top advisors, and the Russian government - a foreign interest openly hostile to the United States, which Trump praises at every opportunity,” he said. “I wrote to you months ago calling for this information to be released to the public...and yet, you continue to resist calls to inform the public of this critical information.” *
Reid contrasted that with Comey’s approach to his public handling of emails from a computer used by top Clinton aide Huma Abedin and her estranged husband Anthony Weiner, which could be related to the Clinton email probe. 

“Your rushed to take this step eleven days before a presidential election, despite the fact that for all you know, the information you possess could be entirely duplicative of the information you already examined which exonerated Secretary Clinton,” he said. *Read more*


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## T-72




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## C130

RabzonKhan said:


> Pathetic, Trump got a black man kicked out of his rally, the poor man actually was his support. Trump yelled at him “we have a protester, by the way, were you paid 1500 to be a thug”.
> 
> Nash County resident C.J. Cary arrived at the Kinston Jet Center Wednesday night in eager anticipation of a Donald Trump rally.
> 
> “Cary says he wanted to deliver a note to Trump urging him to be less offensive and more inclusive to four demographic groups: black people, women, people with disabilities and college students”. Cary, an African-American, says he’s an ex-Marine who also worked in Afghanistan as a civilian for the U.S. Army. *Link*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Harry Reid accuses Comey of sitting on proof of Trump-Russia ties, possible Hatch Act violation
> *
> In his last few months in the Senate, Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, isn’t pulling any punches -- especially after the recent revelations by FBI Director James Comey that more emails were found that could be related to the Clinton email probe.
> 
> *The pugilistic Reid, who plans to retire after finishing out this term in Congress, penned a blistering letter to Comey Sunday, accusing the FBI chief of holding back “explosive” information about Donald Trump’s close Russian ties while possibly violating the Hatch Act by reviving the Clinton email investigation. *
> 
> “Your actions in recent months have demonstrated a disturbing double standard for the treatment of sensitive information, with what appears to be a clear intent to aid one political party over another,” Reid wrote, adding that through Comey’s “partisan actions, you may have broken the law.”
> 
> *The Nevada Democrat went on to insinuate Comey’s violation of the Hatch Act, which prohibits “activity directed towards the success or failure” of a candidate by executive branch employees. *
> 
> “[Y]our highly selective approach to publicizing information, along with your timing, was intended for the success or failure of a partisan candidate or political group,” Reid wrote.
> 
> *One example Reid posited of the “selective approach”: Comey’s methods in investigating Donald Trump and his campaign’s possible ties to the Russian government. *
> 
> *“In my communications with you and other top officials in the national security community, it has become clear that you possess explosive information about close ties and coordination between Donald Trump, his top advisors, and the Russian government - a foreign interest openly hostile to the United States, which Trump praises at every opportunity,” he said. “I wrote to you months ago calling for this information to be released to the public...and yet, you continue to resist calls to inform the public of this critical information.” *
> Reid contrasted that with Comey’s approach to his public handling of emails from a computer used by top Clinton aide Huma Abedin and her estranged husband Anthony Weiner, which could be related to the Clinton email probe.
> 
> “Your rushed to take this step eleven days before a presidential election, despite the fact that for all you know, the information you possess could be entirely duplicative of the information you already examined which exonerated Secretary Clinton,” he said. *Read more*




the black guy was disrupting Trumps rally that's a no-no!! even if he didn't mean any harm and actually supports Trump. should he have been called a thug?? nah, but can you blame Trump?? he's had people disrupting his events all year long. Project Veritas has proved that the DNC has set plants in Trumps rallys and instigated violence outside his rallies.

Hillary Clinton would have done the same thing. She actually has been worse to people disrupting her.






and Harry Reid is a joke. now they are the ones coming up with conspiracy theories.

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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


>



LMAO enough said.



C130 said:


> the black guy was disrupting Trumps rally that's a no-no!! even if he didn't mean any harm and actually supports Trump. should he have been called a thug?? nah, but can you blame Trump?? he's had people disrupting his events all year long. Project Veritas has proved that the DNC has set plants in Trumps rallys and instigated violence outside his rallies.
> 
> Hillary Clinton would have done the same thing. She actually has been worse to people disrupting her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and Harry Reid is a joke. now they are the ones coming up with conspiracy theories.



Soon, all you Trump supporters are going to come out of your virtual reality when you find out that Trump wasn't half the man he promised to be. Just wait and see. Right now you Trump folks are somewhere in a cloud. Thinking that this orange head hates Muslims, Mexicans, black African Americans and supporting your foul agenda. All the tall claims and big talk will amount to nothing. Wait and see.


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## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> LMAO enough said.


about what, that millions of Americans, including black, hispanic, jamaican, Indian, whatever origin folks are enthusiastically voting for Mr Trump ?

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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> about what, that millions of Americans, including black, hispanic, jamaican, Indian, whatever origin folks are enthusiastically voting for Mr Trump ?



LMAO at millions of Americans. Yeah that is white racist inbred red necks and Modi toadie Indians. Stop including Hispanics and the rest. They don't vote Trump.

As for diamond and silk LMAO What a joke.

I hope this orange head is elected. I pray this orange head is elected. A disgrace and humiliation of an unprecedented scale. The world has already lambasted Trump as a disgrace and a disaster of epic proportions. Trump supporters are living in a different universe.


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## Desert Fox



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## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> As for diamond and silk LMAO What a joke


why ?


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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> why ?



That requires no explanation. The video speaks volume.


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## C130

maximuswarrior said:


> LMAO enough said.
> 
> 
> 
> Soon, all you Trump supporters are going to come out of your virtual reality when you find out that Trump wasn't half the man he promised to be. Just wait and see. Right now you Trump folks are somewhere in a cloud. Thinking that this orange head hates Muslims, Mexicans, black African Americans and supporting your foul agenda. All these tall claims and big talk will amount to nothing. Wait and see.



are you stereotyping all Trump supporters now?? how quaint 

you think we hate all Muslims, Mexicans, and black people.

last time I checked Trump never killed any Muslims. started Middle East wars that created a humanity crisis and the refugee problem that threatens all of Western Europe. 

he isn't a war hawk looking to start WW3 against Russia and Iran. 

he isn't the one caught up in dozens of scandals.

Trump couldn't be half as bad at being POTUS as Hillary will be.

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## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> That requires no explanation. The video speaks volume.


I don't see anything there apart from 2 very enthusiastic Trump fans, what do you mean by "the video speaks volumes" ? 




----------------------------------------------------------


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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> I don't see anything there apart from 2 very enthusiastic Trump fans, what do you mean by "the video speaks volumes" ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------



Two brute turds trying to convince everyone how wonderful Trump is LMAO How much did Trump pay diamond and silk to put up a show? LMAO at the names diamond and silk.

LMAO at the wannabe hippie. The hippie is smoking too much ganja.



C130 said:


> are you stereotyping all Trump supporters now?? how quaint
> 
> you think we hate all Muslims, Mexicans, and black people.
> 
> last time I checked Trump never killed any Muslims. started Middle East wars that created a humanity crisis and the refugee problem that threatens all of Western Europe.
> 
> he isn't a war hawk looking to start WW3 against Russia and Iran.
> 
> he isn't the one caught up in dozens of scandals.
> 
> Trump couldn't be half as bad at being POTUS as Hillary will be.



You don't hear me cheering for Hillary, but stop fooling yourself that Trump is going to deliver rivers of honey.

Nothing that you say can justify Trump's insane rhetoric against Mexicans, Muslims and others. I have already on numerous occasions clarified my position regarding the Democrats and their cunning politics. I'm not a fan, but I'm not going to delusion myself by believing that Trump is a worthy alternative. They are both the other side of the same coin.

Admit it. You Americans are screwed with two terrible choices. We can argue which is worse, but both are indeed terrible.


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## Nilgiri

The comments are the best part!

"theres more flies in the room than people"

"the rats usually leave the ship when its sinking"

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## The Sandman

Nilgiri said:


> The comments are the best part!
> 
> "theres more flies in the room than people"
> 
> "the rats usually leave the ship when its sinking"


Damn and than i saw this vid.....

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## gambit

maximuswarrior said:


> LMAO at millions of Americans. Yeah that is white racist inbred red necks and Modi toadie Indians. Stop including Hispanics and the rest. They don't vote Trump.
> 
> As for diamond and silk LMAO What a joke.
> 
> I hope this orange head is elected. I pray this orange head is elected. A disgrace and humiliation of an unprecedented scale. *The world has already lambasted Trump as a disgrace and a disaster of epic proportions.* Trump supporters are living in a different universe.


We do not care what 'The world' thinks of our politics. You want Americans not to even opine on other countries' internal politics ? Then have the courtesy to not even opine about ours. But if you chose to opine, then do not bring in 'The world'.

Anyway...What you think 'The world' said is nothing but a rehash of what 'The world' said of Ronald Raygun. You never had any respect for US with Raygun. And look what happened to the Soviets and 'The world'. Under Raygun, we changed 'The world', pal. To put it bluntly, we made 'The world' our bttch...!!! Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko, and Gorbachev. In the end, Uncle Sam bent them all over and *BONED* them one by one. You think we give a shit on what 'The world' thinks of US after that ?

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## Nilgiri

The Sandman said:


> Damn and than i saw this vid.....



Yeah Clinton News Network and others in MSM never show the scale and size of the Trump Rallies. They keep cameras focused only on the podium at best for snippets to show alongside Hillary "rallies" (where they also focus on just Hillary).

BTW a shout out to one of the best bands ever, with their song in the background:

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## Desert Fox



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## RabzonKhan

Solomon2 said:


> I've been sure Trump's "hate and fear mongering based campaign" has been exaggerated in the press since he added the Muslim immigration freeze platform: it has been touted as racist, but if you really read Trump's statement you'd see it was temporary, until the federal gov't fixes its immigrant screening issues.


You should be his spokesman  No my friend, he did not say a word about “gov't fixes its immigrant screening issues”, that speech clearly showed his hatred for Muslims and their religion.

Here is his speech:


DECEMBER 07, 2015 -
*DONALD J. TRUMP STATEMENT ON PREVENTING MUSLIM IMMIGRATION*

(New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, -- *Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on.* According to Pew Research, among others, there is great hatred towards Americans by large segments of the Muslim population. Most recently, a poll from the Center for Security Policy released data showing "25% of those polled agreed that violence against Americans here in the United States is justified as a part of the global jihad" and 51% of those polled, "agreed that Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed according to Shariah." *Shariah authorizes such atrocities as murder against non-believers who won't convert, beheadings and more unthinkable acts that pose great harm to Americans, especially women.*

Mr. Trump stated, "Without looking at the various polling data, it is obvious to anybody the hatred is beyond comprehension. Where this hatred comes from and why we will have to determine. *Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life.* If I win the election for President, we are going to Make America Great Again." - _Donald J. Trump _*Link*









> I'm most impressed you're quoting from ADL. But do you seek out their information to learn from it, or to pick here and there in an attempt to confirm what your stance is already? The distorted reporting on Trump has brought haters out of the woodwork, but as the ADL points out - and as I've posted previously - these folk are not endorsed by the Trump campaign and are rejected by many Trump supporters.


Good that you brought this issue up, actually I'm a regular visitor to their website and I have learned a lot from them about racism in America. Actually, ADL position is not as simple as you want us to believe. The fact is, on numerous occasions ADL has condemned Trump, and they have also accused Trump for not strongly distancing himself from the racists.

Now just think about it, why they have only been criticizing Trump, do they have an agenda against him, are they pro-Hillary, or it could be, as I believe, he is a closet racist?

Bty, remember, you denied that the Star of David/Hillary tweet was anti-Jewish.






By: Marissa Stern | JE Staff JULY 13, 2016

…“The ADL immediately recognized it as an anti-Semitic image, and there was this trifecta of symbols — the Jewish star, next to a political leader, on a pile of money — referencing age-old stereotypes of Jews and money and Jews and government control,” said ADL assistant regional director Jeremy Bannett. “This adds to what we’ve been feeling for months, which is we’ve been troubled by the Trump campaign for what we see as a mainstreaming of bigotry.

“We’re a 501(c)(3) organization, and we don’t support or oppose candidates for office but we don’t think it is a Democratic or Republican issue. This is about the mainstreaming of hate.”

Despite Trump’s defense of the tweet and arguing that the image was not anti-Semitic, he has not directly apologized, which is what Bannett is hoping he does.

“The response we believe has not been the correct response so far,” he said. “We’re calling on Trump to number one, acknowledge the error; number two, to apologize; and number three, to vehemently renounce anti-Semitism and bigotry in his campaign.

“We’re not calling Trump an anti-Semite or a bigot, and we know we cannot control who supports him,” Bannett continued, “but his campaign has emboldened white supremacists and he needs to make it clear that bigotry and hate has no place in his campaign. He must say with the exact same passion that he uses to attack his opponent and to attack the media that hate will never make America great again.”









1. *ADL:*New York, NY, July 5, 2015… *The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today condemned Donald Trump’s recent remarks about immigrants as hate speech and stereotyping, and called on him to stop spreading misinformation and fomenting hatred against immigrants.* *Link*



2. *ADL: Trump’s Plan to Seal Borders Against Muslims Runs Contrary to Our Nation’s Deepest Values
*
New York, NY, December 7, 2015 … *The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) condemned Donald Trump’s* calls to bar entry into the United States for all Muslims, calling the plan “deeply offensive.” Earlier today, Mr. Trump said in a statement he was calling for a “total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.”

Jonathan A. Greenblatt, ADL CEO, issued the following statement:

Mr. Trump’s plan to bar people from entry to the United States based on their religion is unacceptable and antithetical to American values. The U.S. was founded as a place of refuge for those fleeing religious persecution, and religious pluralism is core to our national identity. A plan that singles out Muslims and denies them entry to the U.S. based on their religion is deeply offensive and runs contrary to our nation’s deepest values.

In the Jewish community, we know all too well what can happen when a particular religious group is singled out for stereotyping and scapegoating. We also know that this country must not give into fear by turning its back on its fundamental values, even at a time of great crisis. As we have said so many times, to do otherwise signals to the terrorists that they are winning the battle against democracy and freedom. *Link*



> It's hard to say for sure. People can say one thing to pollsters yet vote differently on election day, or maybe not go to the voting booth at all.


I do believe in polls, but we'll discuss it some other time.


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## KAL-EL

Desert Fox said:


> View attachment 348024



That's just brutal  but the New York Post has also had a field day with Anthony Weiner in the past.

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## LA se Karachi



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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> The comments are the best part!
> 
> "theres more flies in the room than people"
> 
> "the rats usually leave the ship when its sinking"


LMAO!!! they all look depressed, as if they were paid to waste their time at such a pathetic rally. And *@4:59 in the video* the guy with the British accent claims the FBI director Comey is a Trump agent and that this reopening of the investigation is an "inside job", what a bunch of loony conspiracy theorists @RabzonKhan they call Trump supporters "conspiracy theorists" yet how different are they??

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## T-72

Nilgiri said:


> The comments are the best part!
> 
> "theres more flies in the room than people"
> 
> "the rats usually leave the ship when its sinking"


LOL 

meanwhile, at a Trump rally:
















------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

also funny to see Rabzon mian having to fall back on his old "racis,sexis,islamophobe, antisemite" 








game over for crooked hillary, these next 4 years are going to be so much fun with president Trump.

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> LMAO!!! they all look depressed, as if they were paid to waste their time at such a pathetic rally. And *@5:03 in the video* the guy with the British accent claims the FBI director Comey is a Trump agent and that this reopening of the investigation is an "inside job", what a bunch of loony conspiracy theorists @RabzonKhan they call Trump supporters "conspiracy theorists" yet how different are they??



Whats funny is they were calling Comey their hero when the FBI let her off and pretty much took a bullet for her back then.

But now it seems:

a) FBI rank and file (esp field agents personally affected/compromised) are immensely fed up and have put pressure on Comey since then. (I was talking about this back when it happened already).

b) The Weiner (man what a name to have lulz) computer has a good chunk of sensitive classified emails, stuff Hillary thought she had fully deleted and left no trace....and the FBI just cant keep it hidden anymore, no matter how much the DOJ wants it to.....because if Hillary were to win, there would be even greater turmoil in the US if she faces impeachment proceedings within the first year especially under a very charged and vocal anti-hillary crowd (who would definitely be yelling/threatening about the stolen election at that point too).

c) Russia would blackmail Hillary with this stuff anyway down the road. It would be really bad for the US if she were president given the no-fly zone shenanigans and her strong Putin hate.

Comey probably saw the writing on the wall and is now hedging the best he can. He would suffer the least under a Trump presidency this way....and has some credibility in a hypothetical (short lived) Hillary presidency among the US population at large....who will be baying for her blood as time passes and everything gets exposed.

3 words: grab the popcorn

November 8th whoever wins is not going to be the end of this drama.

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## Desert Fox

"


Nilgiri said:


> Whats funny is they were calling Comey their hero when the FBI let her off and pretty much took a bullet for her back then.
> 
> But now it seems:
> 
> a) FBI rank and file (esp field agents personally affected/compromised) are immensely fed up and have put pressure on Comey since then. (I was talking about this back when it happened already).
> 
> b) The Weiner (man what a name to have lulz) computer has a good chunk of sensitive classified emails, stuff Hillary thought she had fully deleted and left no trace....and the FBI just cant keep it hidden anymore, no matter how much the DOJ wants it to.....because if Hillary were to win, there would be even greater turmoil in the US if she faces impeachment proceedings within the first year especially under a very charged and vocal anti-hillary crowd (who would definitely be yelling/threatening about the stolen election at that point too).
> 
> c) Russia would blackmail Hillary with this stuff anyway down the road. It would be really bad for the US if she were president given the no-fly zone shenanigans and her strong Putin hate.
> 
> Comey probably saw the writing on the wall and is now hedging the best he can. He would suffer the least under a Trump presidency this way....and has some credibility in a hypothetical (short lived) Hillary presidency among the US population at large....who will be baying for her blood as time passes and everything gets exposed.
> 
> 3 words: grab the popcorn
> 
> November 8th whoever wins is not going to be the end of this drama.


Ha ha, true that. You Canadians have that luxury of watching the show, while we across the border will live the show  . I'm beginning to agree with @T-72 , im gonna have election withdrawals too once this election is over.

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## LA se Karachi

Desert Fox said:


> Ha ha, true that. You Canadians have that luxury of watching the show, *while we across the border will live the show * . I'm beginning to agree with @T-72 , im gonna have election withdrawals too once this election is over.




We? Do you live here?


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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> "
> 
> Ha ha, true that. You Canadians have that luxury of watching the show, while we across the border will live the show  . I'm beginning to agree with @T-72 , im gonna have election withdrawals too once this election is over.



I'm waiting for a Trump win eagerly tbh. This is the only election I have cared to this extent about the result. Not just what Trump means for the US, but the fact many across the world will be emboldened immensely to cut the ultra PC-behaviour, globalist, leftist view and start reaping the merits of true civilisation again. Canada and western Europe take major cues from the US. The momentum from Brexit must continue and keep continuing for years and decades to have a chance at world success and even survival.

I don't want to see the world turn into one giant heap of homogeneous mediocrity accentuated with chaos and big govt run by the globalists and leftists.

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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> I'm beginning to agree with @T-72 , im gonna have election withdrawals too once this election is over.


I know man, just a week to go  

Hopefully the term will be just as fun, there's lots of juice left in this story. Really looking fwd to inauguration day with Trump and Melania standing next to the Obongos, that'll be so sweet for Trump (all that roasting at the 2011 white house correspondents dinner come full circle)

When president Trump meets Merkel lol, or delivers remarks at the UN, leading the G-5/20 etc, making deals with Putin, unleashing hell on ISIS.. 

_picture abhi baki hai _

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## Nilgiri

T-72 said:


> I know man, just a week to go
> 
> Hopefully the term will be just as fun, there's lots of juice left in this story. Really looking fwd to inauguration day with Trump and Melania standing next to the Obongos, that'll be so sweet for Trump (all that roasting at the 2011 white house correspondents dinner come full circle)
> 
> When president Trump meets Merkel lol, or delivers remarks at the UN, leading the G-5/20 etc, making deals with Putin, unleashing hell on ISIS..
> 
> _picture abhi baki hai _



The absolute best part will be when he gets to tell Obama....."you're fired" 

Then the whole legal process with investigating Hillary, Bill and other democrats and even republican establishment....in a fair, transparent manner with excellent AG appointed and also supreme court justice choice. Start taking action against the MSM too as necessary. No one should be spared....it needs to be utterly thorough and methodical. 

Trade, immigration, ISIS, Russia etc etc...can be done in concert....but they should be secondary to this urgent priority I feel.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Nilgiri said:


> Yeah Clinton News Network and others in MSM never show the scale and size of the Trump Rallies. They keep cameras focused only on the podium at best for snippets to show alongside Hillary "rallies" (where they also focus on just Hillary).
> 
> BTW a shout out to one of the best bands ever, with their song in the background:



Keep on Playing, while John Fogerty will be voting something else than Trump, LOL...

Luckily You are living in Canada because I am not 100% sure that Trump
is aware that Indians might not be Muslims.


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## Nilgiri

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Luckily You are living in Canada because I am not 100% sure that Trump
> are aware that Indians might not be Muslims.



Considering Trump knows India quite well, has interacted with many Indians and attended Hindu events....you need not speak for him....given his actions drown those by a country mile.


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## T-72

Nilgiri said:


> The absolute best part will be when he gets to tell Obama....."you're fired"


probably just politely whisper that in his ear, y'know, in keeping with being presidential etc.  



Nilgiri said:


> Then the whole legal process with investigating Hillary, Bill and other democrats and even republican establishment....in a fair, transparent manner with excellent AG appointed and also supreme court justice choice. Start taking action against the MSM too as necessary. No one should be spared....it needs to be utterly thorough and methodical.


He'll get a new AG, FBI and CIA directors for sure, probably a few others. Neocons like Lindsey Graham and John McCain will (hopefully) be purged from senate foreign relations committees, General Flynn gets SecDef or something as big league. Trump is going to shake things up and it'll very very interesting to watch him at work 

Strongly disagree about action against the media, though. That's not how they do it in the US, crooked hillary's staffers were recently caught talking about infowars and brietbart etc having no right to exist in one of their e-mails. MSM are dying on their own, Trump's election itself will be one of the final nails in their coffin. 



Nilgiri said:


> Trade, immigration, ISIS, Russia etc etc...can be done in concert....but they should be secondary to this urgent priority I feel.


There's domestic issues and then there are international problems that are plaguing the whole world, I think he'll move quickly to sort out the middle east, I hope he does.

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## T-72

classic Cenk outrage video:











lol

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## Penguin

*Putin's chaos strategy is coming back to bite him*
The saga of Russian meddling in America’s presidential election has managed to illustrate the “Putin Paradox” perfectly.

More here:
http://uk.businessinsider.com/putin...bite-him-2016-10?international=true&r=UK&IR=T

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## T-72

Penguin said:


> *Putin's chaos strategy is coming back to bite him*
> The saga of Russian meddling in America’s presidential election has managed to illustrate the “Putin Paradox” perfectly.
> 
> More here:
> http://uk.businessinsider.com/putin...bite-him-2016-10?international=true&r=UK&IR=T


_*"she is a pragmatic operator less interested in starting new crusades than clearing up old conflicts.."



*

_
bs article, Trump is the pragmatist, she's a neocon bully who has terrible judgement.

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## Penguin

T-72 said:


> _*"she is a pragmatic operator less interested in starting new crusades than clearing up old conflicts.."
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> _
> bs article, Trump is the pragmatist, she's a neocon bully who has terrible judgement.


Says you. And you are entitled to your opinion. I wish, though, that one isn't so simple as to discard an entire article based on a single sentence in it, that one happens to disagree with. How has HC harmed India while in public office? What crusade specifically has she started (could you even tell, considering one cannot and should not confuse US policy in general with the qualities of one single, specific person? And who says / what shows Tump is a pragmatist, and how is that better? In short, I think you can do better in your reply

I hope you realize I did not post this article in order to show a flag for one candidate or another, but rather because I thought the wider perspective was interesting and relevant.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Penguin said:


> Says you. And you are entitled to your opinion. I wish, though, that one isn't so simple as to discard an entire article based on a single sentence in it, that one happens to disagree with. How has HC harmed India while in public office? What crusade specifically has she started (could you even tell, considering one cannot and should not confuse US policy in general with the qualities of one single, specific person? And who says / what shows Tump is a pragmatist, and how is that better? In short, I think you can do better in your reply
> 
> I hope you realize I did not post this article in order to show a flag for one candidate or another, but rather because I thought the wider perspective was interesting and relevant.



1.Don't know too much and will leave this for others to comment. But American policy in Syria which Hillary supports is a disaster. Supporting the so-called "rebels" will turn out to be Taliban 2.0 situation for them. These rebels are like the Taliban in Afghanistan mostly extremists which the Americans are arming and we all know how well it ended for themselves and rest of the world. Hillary supports this and Trump actually pragmatically talks of joining hands with Russia and defeating ISIS.

2.On top of this she advocates a No fly Zone over Syria which will be effectively a declaration of war against Russia and the Syrian govt. which can drag the world into a WW 3 depending on how Putin reacts and surely Putin is no P*ssy. Trump opposes this.

3. Open borders will be a disaster for America. Cases in point, France, Germany, Britain. Something which Hillary advocates. Even though this is a local American issue. America still impacts the world. If America goes down, everyone goes down. Case in point the 2008 global financial crisis. Trump opposes this.

4. The biggest sources of funding of the Clinton foundation are the same places which are also sources of funding for global jihad. Something tells me Hillary will not wage an honest battle against this global menace and will face conflict of interest. Trump doesn't have this issue.

5 This I am not sure of but I have read she has support of Necons in America who are major advocates of wars and invasions. Will leave this this someone more knowledgeable on the issue to tackle.

These are majorly the reasons why I feel Trump will be better than Hillary. Besides don't forget everything Hillary has done in office. The major corruption allegations, the fact that her husband raped women, cheated on her and she still didnt leave him only because of the Clinton surname tells me that is she is a weak, power hungry woman who has no respect of either herself or women in general.She was the enabler of Bill Clinton's behaviour. Can't have a person like that as President. Whatever Trump has said or done was in his private life as a businessman before he entered the political scene and is nothing compared to Hillary's actions. Hillary is far more guilty I believe. Trump deserves a chance. If he does badly, remove him 4 years later. That's the beauty of democracy.

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## Desert Fox

nick_indian said:


> 4. The biggest sources of funding of the Clinton foundation are the same places which are also sources of funding for global jihad. Something tells me Hillary will not wage an honest battle against this global menace and will face conflict of interest. Trump doesn't have this issue.








nick_indian said:


> she is a weak, power hungry woman who has no respect of either herself or women in general.She was the enabler of Bill Clinton's behaviour.

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## T-72

Penguin said:


> Says you. And you are entitled to your opinion. I wish, though, that one isn't so simple as to discard an entire article based on a single sentence in it, that one happens to disagree with. How has HC harmed India while in public office? What crusade specifically has she started (could you even tell, considering one cannot and should not confuse US policy in general with the qualities of one single, specific person? And who says / what shows Tump is a pragmatist, and how is that better? In short, I think you can do better in your reply
> 
> I hope you realize I did not post this article in order to show a flag for one candidate or another, but rather because I thought the wider perspective was interesting and relevant.


It's a partisan article, that one line just happens to illuminate it perfectly. No, Hillary hasn't harmed India while in public office, not to my knowledge anyway but I must make clear that my support for Trump and general commentary here on this election has absolutely nothing to do with how the outcome might impact India-US ties which are irrelevant in the context of the race anyway. 

There are much bigger issues at hand here, such as the situation in Syria/Iraq and growing military tension between the US and Russia. Trump is proposing a detente in the face of rapidly declining relations and the festering proxy mess that is Syria, he realizes that an escalation in Syria will only lead to disaster, common sense pragmatism right there, a sharp (and welcome) contrast to crooked hillary's disastrous no fly zone idea.


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## Desert Fox

LMAO looks like the Democrats ahev completely lost it and are going full conspiracy nutjobs. On top of that this moron is a Democrat Campaign Strategist and he believes the KGB still exists. Someone needs to break it to this fool that the KGB was dissolved in 1991. Guy sounds like a classic example of a red neck. @Nilgiri @T-72 @C130 @RabzonKhan 


*Democrats B*tch and Whine, Accuse FBI of working for KGB & House Republicans*​








​*Famed Democratic strategist James Carville may be the first Clinton surrogate to have officially lost his mind over the FBI’s decision to reopen its investigation into Clinton’s private email server.*


*In an appearance on MSNBC on Monday, Carville relentlessly — and repeatedly — attacked the FBI’s decision to reopen the investigation, asserting it is part of a conspiracy to subvert American democracy.*

“This is in effect an attempt to hijack an election,” Carville claimed. “It’s unprecedented … the House Republicans and the KGB are trying to influence our democracy,” he said.

Apparently the fact that the Soviet security agency was disbanded in 1991 does not preclude its involvement in this vast, anti-Clinton, FBI-organized conspiracy, according to Carville. Poor Carville was clearly apoplectic at the news of Comey’s announcement, describing it as an assault or attack on American democracy multiple times.

He was also adamant about who was responsible. “Comey was acting in concert and coordination with the House Republicans,” Carville said. “We also have the extraordinary case of the KGB being involved in this race and selectively leaking things from the Clinton campaign that they hacked,” he added.

Carville was very upset that Comey's announcement thrust Clinton's behavior back into the spotlight. "It would seem to me that the FBI shouldn't be getting rolled by the House Republicans, that's what happened here — there's nothing else that's going on — and in the meantime … democracy is under assault by the KGB," he said. "To me that's something we ought to be talking about."

Unfortunately for Carville, fanciful tales about time-traveling Soviet spies and an FBI in the GOP's pocket certainly make for interesting entertainment — but they pale in importance to the real-life stories of Clinton's brazen lawlessness.

When the MSNBC anchor dared raise the fact that Democrats were praising Comey only a few months ago when he announced the FBI's decision not to recommend indictment, Carville went into a stuttering, sputtering fit.

"When the facts change I change my mind," Carville said. "Why are you defending this, why are you sitting here as American democracy is under assault?" he asked.

"This is an unprecedented event that was done on behalf of the House Republicans," Carville repeated. "And as we know the KGB is all over this election and this is what we are talking about? We ought to be talking about [how] our democracy is under assault right now and what we are going to do about it, not [what somebody said in July] about James Comey."

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## Penguin

How sad y'all can only look at the Trump and Clinton persona, and not beyond that to the information warfare aspects.

Have a nice day fulminating. (Mmmm. I thought this was a DEFENCE forum)


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## Darmashkian

Penguin said:


> How sad y'all can only look at the Trump and Clinton persona, and not beyond that to the information warfare aspects.
> 
> Have a nice day fulminating. (Mmmm. I thought this was a DEFENCE forum)


I read that article of yours(though I believe it is slightly biased towards Hillary Clinton) & have read many others on Trump & his connections with Putin/Russia. I believe that Trump is what the Russians would call an useful idiot..

He's not an agent of theirs,but what he does will definitely help Russia & be in it's national interest.

Add to that his suspicious financial dealings with the Russian banks on which we know little. I believe those deals may have given him a positive view of the Russians & their mindset.

Add to that his being surrounded by people like Paul Manafort,Roger Stone,Gen. Micheal Flynn(he appeared on Russia Today-a regime mouthpiece many times) etc

Afterall there is a reason why many Republican National Security experts & policymakers have endorsed Hillary Clinton. Trump will only help secure Russian power in Syria & Ukraine.

His talk of not helping NATO allies will be sweet music for Russia & bring nightmares to the Baltic nations! Poland too should be concerned
-----------------
& regarding your last line... this is a Defence Forum,but this particular thread is a Political thread

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## Gandhi G in da house

Penguin said:


> How sad y'all can only look at the Trump and Clinton persona, and not beyond that to the information warfare aspects.
> 
> Have a nice day fulminating. (Mmmm. I thought this was a DEFENCE forum)



You are doing exactly what you accused @T-72 of doing in post#1999.


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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> LMAO looks like the Democrats ahev completely lost it and are going full conspiracy nutjobs. On top of that this moron is a Democrat Campaign Strategist and he believes the KGB still exists. Someone needs to break it to this fool that the KGB was dissolved in 1991. Guy sounds like a classic example of a red neck. @Nilgiri @T-72 @C130 @RabzonKhan
> 
> 
> *Democrats B*tch and Whine, Accuse FBI of working for KGB & House Republicans*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 348209
> ​*Famed Democratic strategist James Carville may be the first Clinton surrogate to have officially lost his mind over the FBI’s decision to reopen its investigation into Clinton’s private email server.*
> 
> 
> *In an appearance on MSNBC on Monday, Carville relentlessly — and repeatedly — attacked the FBI’s decision to reopen the investigation, asserting it is part of a conspiracy to subvert American democracy.*
> 
> “This is in effect an attempt to hijack an election,” Carville claimed. “It’s unprecedented … the House Republicans and the KGB are trying to influence our democracy,” he said.
> 
> Apparently the fact that the Soviet security agency was disbanded in 1991 does not preclude its involvement in this vast, anti-Clinton, FBI-organized conspiracy, according to Carville. Poor Carville was clearly apoplectic at the news of Comey’s announcement, describing it as an assault or attack on American democracy multiple times.
> 
> He was also adamant about who was responsible. “Comey was acting in concert and coordination with the House Republicans,” Carville said. “We also have the extraordinary case of the KGB being involved in this race and selectively leaking things from the Clinton campaign that they hacked,” he added.
> 
> Carville was very upset that Comey's announcement thrust Clinton's behavior back into the spotlight. "It would seem to me that the FBI shouldn't be getting rolled by the House Republicans, that's what happened here — there's nothing else that's going on — and in the meantime … democracy is under assault by the KGB," he said. "To me that's something we ought to be talking about."
> 
> Unfortunately for Carville, fanciful tales about time-traveling Soviet spies and an FBI in the GOP's pocket certainly make for interesting entertainment — but they pale in importance to the real-life stories of Clinton's brazen lawlessness.
> 
> When the MSNBC anchor dared raise the fact that Democrats were praising Comey only a few months ago when he announced the FBI's decision not to recommend indictment, Carville went into a stuttering, sputtering fit.
> 
> "When the facts change I change my mind," Carville said. "Why are you defending this, why are you sitting here as American democracy is under assault?" he asked.
> 
> "This is an unprecedented event that was done on behalf of the House Republicans," Carville repeated. "And as we know the KGB is all over this election and this is what we are talking about? We ought to be talking about [how] our democracy is under assault right now and what we are going to do about it, not [what somebody said in July] about James Comey."


haha, love it, the wheels are coming off crooked hillary's cart. Saw the pundits at morning Joe earlier, the new clinton strategy now is apparently one to attack Comey relentlessly till election day hoping that he crumbles. They failed to mention this would involve taking their eye off the ball and that Trump will more wiggle room to take his message to the masses unobstructed, she's collapsed in the polls, even rigging them by oversampling wont work now. Comey, for his part, will not only be defended every step of the way by the republican establishment, he also has legit cover (not enough time left in the week to go through all 650k of them) 

mashallah, It's all coming together quite beautifully for Trump.

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## Penguin

nick_indian said:


> You are doing exactly what you accused @T-72 of doing in post#1999.



Not at all. I am not getting sucked into a Trump v. Clinton 'discussion' (which by definition isn't solvable, because it involves making a choice for one or the other candidate, which is what the US electorate will be doing, and people here have their opinions set) 

As I clearly pointed out, I'm not interested in swaying your 'vote' one way or another, as it is pointless to do so with non-US people. After all, only US people get to vote on this. However, I do think there is an information warfare element and I do think it important to point that out. GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF NON-DEFENCE RELATED PROPAGANDA SPEWED ON THIS FORUM.

And that is MY opinion, which I have already shared with forum management, which invited me here in ... oh, sometime around 2006 ... probably because I post so poorly. 

But you aren't require to listen or agree.

So, tada!


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## T-72

Darmashkian said:


> Add to that his suspicious financial dealings with the Russian banks on which we know little. I believe those deals may have given him a positive view of the Russians & their mindset.


link ? 



Darmashkian said:


> Add to that his being surrounded by people like Paul Manafort,Roger Stone,Gen. Micheal Flynn(he appeared on Russia Today-a regime mouthpiece many times) etc


Paul Manafort, from what I gathered was actually working against Putin/Russia's interests in Ukraine by helping them with the EU (which in itself was shady business, so he stepped away to take some heat off). I could be wrong here too, so let me know, I haven't looked into any big details of Manafort's dealings in the Ukraine etc.

Stone is a political operative for the right, worked with Reagan and Nixon, what's his deal ? His and Alex Jones' run in with Cenk at the RNC was hilarious.

Gen Flynn was fired by Obama for not being politically correct, look his bio up, that guy knows what he's talking about, and is about as far as you can get from being a traitor to the US.



Darmashkian said:


> Afterall there is a reason why many Republican National Security experts & policymakers have endorsed Hillary Clinton. Trump will only help secure Russian power in Syria & Ukraine.


many prominent Bushites and neo cons have endorsed her, because their doctrine fits right in with her.




There is unbelievable hypocrisy in this whole Russia narrative about Trump now, 8 years ago when Obama said he wants to stop the wars the world lauded him as some sort of messiah of peace, and Trump is painted as a Russian agent as he tries to avert WW3

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## Penguin

Desert Fox said:


> LMAO looks like the Democrats ahev completely lost it and are going full conspiracy nutjobs. On top of that this moron is a Democrat Campaign Strategist and he believes the KGB still exists. Someone needs to break it to this fool that the KGB was dissolved in 1991. Guy sounds like a classic example of a red neck.




*CRS INSIGHT
Information Warfare: Russian Activities*
September 2, 2016 (IN10563)
Catherine A. Theohary, Specialist in National Security Policy and Information Operations (ctheohary@crs.loc.gov, 7-
0844)
Kathleen J. McInnis, Analyst in International Security (kmcinnis@crs.loc.gov, 7-1416)
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IN10563.pdf

Note the .GOV adresses!

"the U.S. intelligence community has blamed the Russian government for attempting to interfere in U.S. elections by hacking and leaking documents."
http://www.bankinfosecurity.com/us-government-accuses-russia-election-hacking-a-9442
Not the democrats...

*Joint Statement from the Department Of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence on Election Security*
Release Date: October 7, 2016
The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process. Such activity is not new to Moscow—the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities.
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07...omeland-security-and-office-director-national



T-72 said:


> haha, love it, the wheels are coming off crooked hillary's cart. Saw the pundits at morning Joe earlier, the new clinton strategy now is apparently one to attack Comey relentlessly till election day hoping that he crumbles. They failed to mention this would involve taking their eye off the ball and that Trump will more wiggle room to take his message to the masses unobstructed, she's collapsed in the polls, even rigging them by oversampling wont work now. Comey, for his part, will not only be defended every step of the way by the republican establishment, he also has legit cover (not enough time left in the week to go through all 650k of them)
> 
> mashallah, It's all coming together quite beautifully for Trump.



http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/28/us-e...-with-a-lot-of-people-in-india-and-china.html



T-72 said:


> It's a partisan article, that one line just happens to illuminate it perfectly. No, Hillary hasn't harmed India while in public office, not to my knowledge anyway but I must make clear that my support for Trump and general commentary here on this election has absolutely nothing to do with how the outcome might impact India-US ties which are irrelevant in the context of the race anyway.
> 
> There are much bigger issues at hand here, such as the situation in Syria/Iraq and growing military tension between the US and Russia. Trump is proposing a detente in the face of rapidly declining relations and the festering proxy mess that is Syria, he realizes that an escalation in Syria will only lead to disaster, common sense pragmatism right there, a sharp (and welcome) contrast to crooked hillary's disastrous no fly zone idea.


*There Is a No-Fly Zone in Syria—One Russia Created*
http://observer.com/2016/10/there-is-a-no-fly-zone-in-syria-one-russia-created/


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## T-72

Penguin said:


> not getting sucked into a Trump v. Clinton 'discussion'


but this isn't exclusively a discussion about Trump vs Clinton, the personalities. All I'm interested in is the geopolitical fallout (military situation wise in particular) from the American people's verdict.

you like skirting around stuff, so I'll just ask you this directly, are you opposed to Trump's proposed détente with Russia ?

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## Gandhi G in da house

Penguin said:


> Not at all. I am not getting sucked into a Trump v. Clinton 'discussion' (which by definition isn't solvable, because it involves making a choice for one or the other candidate, which is what the US electorate will be doing, and people here have their opinions set)
> 
> As I clearly pointed out, I'm not interested in swaying your 'vote' one way or another, as it is pointless to do so with non-US people. After all, only US people get to vote on this. However, I do think there is an information warfare element and I do think it important to point that out. GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF NON-DEFENCE RELATED PROPAGANDA SPEWED ON THIS FORUM.
> 
> And that is MY opinion, which I have already shared with forum management, which invited me here in ... oh, sometime around 2006 ... probably because I post so poorly.
> 
> But you aren't require to listen or agree.
> 
> So, tada!



What is your nationality if you dont mind ?


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## jha

RCP average polls : Clinton ahead with 2.2%... lead shrunk even today.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...s/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html


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## Desert Fox

Penguin said:


> *CRS INSIGHT
> Information Warfare: Russian Activities*
> September 2, 2016 (IN10563)
> Catherine A. Theohary, Specialist in National Security Policy and Information Operations (ctheohary@crs.loc.gov, 7-
> 0844)
> Kathleen J. McInnis, Analyst in International Security (kmcinnis@crs.loc.gov, 7-1416)
> https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IN10563.pdf
> 
> Note the .GOV adresses!
> 
> "the U.S. intelligence community has blamed the Russian government for attempting to interfere in U.S. elections by hacking and leaking documents."
> http://www.bankinfosecurity.com/us-government-accuses-russia-election-hacking-a-9442
> Not the democrats...
> 
> *Joint Statement from the Department Of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence on Election Security*
> Release Date: October 7, 2016
> The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process. Such activity is not new to Moscow—the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities.
> https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07...omeland-security-and-office-director-national
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/28/us-e...-with-a-lot-of-people-in-india-and-china.html
> 
> 
> *There Is a No-Fly Zone in Syria—One Russia Created*
> http://observer.com/2016/10/there-is-a-no-fly-zone-in-syria-one-russia-created/



And yet there is no proof the KGB (which no longer exists except in the minds of Democrats) controls the FBI or the Republicans and thus* revealing Clinton Corruption*. Just peculation.


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## maximuswarrior

gambit said:


> We do not care what 'The world' thinks of our politics. You want Americans not to even opine on other countries' internal politics ? Then have the courtesy to not even opine about ours. But if you chose to opine, then do not bring in 'The world'.
> 
> Anyway...What you think 'The world' said is nothing but a rehash of what 'The world' said of Ronald Raygun. You never had any respect for US with Raygun. And look what happened to the Soviets and 'The world'. Under Raygun, we changed 'The world', pal. To put it bluntly, we made 'The world' our bttch...!!! Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko, and Gorbachev. In the end, Uncle Sam bent them all over and *BONED* them one by one. You think we give a shit on what 'The world' thinks of US after that ?



LOL he doesn't care about what the world thinks, but is using capitals and bold fonts to scream his lungs out. What a desperation and humiliation.

I dare you elect Trump. Just elect him and see what a laughing stock you become infront of the entire world. You do care. You care obsessively and you know it. Otherwise, you wouldn't be reacting so angrily to my post.

If this is what Trump has turned your country into during the elections one can only imagine what a racist and xenophobic crap hole it will be after the elections. Even dead heroic soldiers aren't spared. You deserve him every bit. Now just do us all a favor and elect this maniac. I can't wait for Putin to own the US in his back pocket. Putin is a fvcking genius.


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## T-72

Penguin said:


> http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/28/us-e...-with-a-lot-of-people-in-india-and-china.html


There are many reasons why I like Trump, but this whole anti-muslim thing around him has nothing to do with it, I also don't care about his wall, his views on abortion, gun control or his tax plan etc 

but, since you sort of brought it up, I always thought that the "muslim ban" was an atrocious idea, but because we know how things work in the US, it was always going to be an unenforceable rule, and he has since walked it back.. multiple redundant democracy ftw.. also, _their democracy is the best, it has tremendous fairness.




_

I like Trump because:

He called out the Bushes and the neocons for their failings in Iraq, he was brutal, singlehandedly destroyed that dynasty at that epic debate, he went where even democrats had only dared to tread lightly and slayed the beast.







He's not afraid of or beholden to foreign special interests and calls it like he sees it, on Turkey here, and has flayed the Saudis many times for their cultural practices and on issues dealing with women and gays, his outreach to the gay community, nevermind that it was a politically expedient thing to do, it was still unprecedented for a republican, so he's not a religious zealot by any stretch.

He'll have no trouble reigning in regional troublemaker minions like the Turks and Sauds should he decide to get serious and solve the Syrian issue.

Also extremely under-reported is how many times he's regretted and rued the great loss of life, _on the other side _in the US's senseless wars in the middle east, Libya, Iraq, Syria.. all disaster zones, Egypt would have been one too if she'd had her way.

so India or muslims etc has nothing to do with it as far as I'm concerned, but for the sake of our planet, Trump must win.

I've followed this campaign right from the start and watched hundreds of his rallies right from the primaries, what an amazing journey, steamrolling every single expert and pundit on the way, and now our hero must win !

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## Zibago

Interesting so now Trump is up hmm


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## jha

Trump is up by 1 point...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-table-main_tracking-poll-740a:homepage/story


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## RabzonKhan

The million dollar question is, why won't Trump release his taxes, what the hell is he hiding, could it be his business deals with Russia?

Here is an interesting fact, except for Trump, every Democrat/Republican nominee for the past 40 years has released their tax returns. Yeah, right, he's going to make America great again. It's time. Mr. Puppet release your taxes!

Hillary has released her tax returns from 2000 to 2015. *Link*

*
What Trump’s Tax Returns Could Tell Us About His Dealings with Russia*

*In the wake of Harry Reid’s accusations, it’s critical to America’s national security for Trump to open up.*

By Norman Eisen and Richard W. Painter

October 31, 2016

Over the weekend, as controversy raged over FBI Director James Comey’s letter to Congress about Anthony Weiner's laptop, *Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway responded by calling for “full disclosure and transparency, honesty and immediacy.”*

*That same standard should be applied by Trump to an issue he himself has avoided for months: his tax returns and what they might say about his dealings and holdings overseas. For the past four decades, every other presidential candidate has released his or her returns. Only Trump has refused.*

*And make no mistake: This is now a major national security issue, especially in light of Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid’s extraordinary allegation, in a letter of his own to the embattled Comey, that “in my communications with you and other top officials in the national security community, it has become clear that you possess explosive information about close ties and coordination between Donald Trump, his top advisors, and the Russian government.”*

Trump says his tax returns reveal nothing that is not already disclosed on his official candidate financial disclosure, called Form 278e. As ethics counsels to the past two presidents, we dealt with both their tax filings and their Form 278's and so we know that Trump is wrong. His tax filings have an enormous amount of additional information which, in this case, could be critically important to determining whether his business overseas might affect his decision-making as president. *That is because Trump’s 12,000-page tax return may tell us a great deal about his Russian and other foreign business ties that is not on his 104-page campaign financial disclosure. It’s now more vital than ever that we get that information in light of Trump's embrace of Russian hacking, leaking and interference in our election.*

If the public saw Trump's taxes, we could check his Russia connections for ourselves. That should start with the troubling discrepancies in how he and his closest associates talk about his Russia ties. Trump has claimed, for example, that “the reason they blame Russia [for hacking into Democratic emails] is they are trying to tarnish me with Russia. I know about Russia, but not about the inner workings. I have no business there and no loans from Russia. I have a great balance sheet.” But that’s very different from the claims that the Trump Organization was making before he decided to run for president. *Trump's son said in 2008 that “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross section of a lot of our assets” and “we see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”*

*Trump’s tax returns could reconcile the tension between these statements. Even if Trump really does have no loans from Russia and no business in that jurisdiction, what about other financial connections with Russians outside of their land? His statement does not rule out such ties, including shared partnership interests, equity interests, joint ventures or licensing agreements with Russia or Russians—both by Trump and his affiliated companies.*

More broadly there is the issue of Trump’s business dealings around the world. U.S. tax filers with financial dealings outside the country are required to provide detailed information about their foreign business activity to the IRS.

If we had Trump's tax returns, the documents could, for example, allow closer scrutiny of the widespread foreign deals licensing his name for projects and products. The needed vetting is not only a matter of who the foreign licensors are (including participants in partnerships and firms doing the licensing). It also concerns the critical question whether he is using offshore tax havens to own these licensing assets or shelter income from them. In his foreign licensing deals, Trump emphasizes the importance of political connections, Vanity Fair reported in August. “The nice part [of the licensing model] is you have local people, local developers: they know the government, they know the presidents of the country, the prime ministers of the country, and all of those things,” Trump said. “Now, I help them a lot: If they need zoning, and they say they are doing a Trump job, every single time they get their zoning because the government wants Trump.”

There are other problems with Trump's sole reliance on his 104-page campaign disclosure under the current circumstances. That document may be missing some foreign entities with which he is associated because of exclusions: The 278e need not show assets with losses, for example, if they no longer have a positive value. Given the way Trump does business, there may be many such assets that do show up on his tax returns, and that could reflect Russian or other foreign ties.

One other shortcoming of the campaign disclosure: It is a current report, which doesn’t go back before the reporting period. That period varies for the different parts of the 278e report, but is generally no longer than the preceding calendar year or two. By contrast, Hillary Clinton has provided 38 years of her tax filings. Given the heightened scrutiny called for by Trump's extraordinary statements about Russia, don't we need to know if he had Russian business dealings three or more years ago and what those dealings were?

*Trump may counter these questions by asserting that his taxes contain no such information. But should we take his word for it, given his apparent support for Russian criminal meddling in our democratic process? Clinton did not ask people to trust her assertions of what was on her tax filings; she disclosed them.* *So has every other recent presidential candidate. Ronald Reagan’s adage for arms negotiations with the Soviets two decades ago was “trust but verify.”*

Perhaps it is time for voters of all political persuasions to tell Trump the same thing that Reagan told Mikhail Gorbachev: no verification, no deal. *Link*

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## Solomon2

RabzonKhan said:


> You should be his spokesman  No my friend, he did not say a word about “gov't fixes its immigrant screening issues”, that speech clearly showed his hatred for Muslims and their religion.



"...Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life."​
I didn't present what I wrote as an exact quote, did I? I think I presented a fair summary of this statement in its given context.



> ....on numerous occasions ADL has condemned Trump, and they have also accused Trump for not strongly distancing himself from the racists.


Yes, indeed! There's a lot to criticize about Trump.



> Bty, remember, you denied that the Star of David/Hillary tweet was anti-Jewish.



“The ADL immediately recognized it as an anti-Semitic image, and there was this trifecta of symbols — the Jewish star, next to a political leader, on a pile of money — referencing age-old stereotypes of Jews and money and Jews and government control,”​
I had to look twice to realize that. They may simply have chosen the six-pointed star to fit the words inside, you know. So they get a one-time pass for ignorance - no apology necessary. Question is, once the ADL educated the Trump campaign about this, did they ever employ this or a similar ad a second time?

“We’re not calling Trump an anti-Semite or a bigot, and we know we cannot control who supports him,” Bannett continued, “but his campaign has emboldened white supremacists and he needs to make it clear that bigotry and hate has no place in his campaign...​
Yes, Trump has emboldened white supremacists. Part of that is the biased anti-Trump reporting, concentrating not on Trump but the extremists among supporters.. (I think I posted an example of how at least one of these was given the boot during a campaign rally.) No, Trump isn't going to "renounce bigotry" because such an un-nuanced wide call on the political stage would undermine his immigration-weeding agenda, whereas if he qualified it he would undermine supporters who like Trump because "he tells it like it is" - not that what Trump says is necessarily fact, but that it isn't wishy-washy. (They're wrong: Trump contradicts himself instead.)




> . He must say with the exact same passion that he uses to attack his opponent and to attack the media that hate will never make America great again.”


A very worthy call. I'll point out, however, that those who have crossed Hillary or her more militant supporters realize that hatred is very much a part of the Clinton campaign. "Deplorables", anyone?




> In the Jewish community, we know all too well what can happen when a particular religious group is singled out for stereotyping and scapegoating. We also know that this country must not give into fear by turning its back on its fundamental values, even at a time of great crisis. As we have said so many times, to do otherwise signals to the terrorists that they are winning the battle against democracy and freedom.


True, but this is the 21st century, not the late 1930s. There is essentially no well-functioning system to filter out militant immigrants, as existed even before immigration was restricted in the 1920s - back then it was anarchists, if I recall correctly.


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## Nilgiri

Im fookin loving it!!!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/01/donald-trump-polls-lead-hillary-clinton-campaign

_"A senior Clinton campaign official says a new ABC News/Washington Post tracking poll which put Trump one point ahead is ‘not what we see at all’"_



So when the heavily stacked democrat-skewed polls cant hold back the Trump wave anymore....its a case of "not what we see at all".

All 100% accurate and true when the rigging was doing its job earlier. Damn I think Trump is in for a pretty crazy landslide here to get hildabeest campaign panic-talking against their own rigged MSM polls in the most dumb way possible!

Then this little gem at the end:

_ “We’ve been able to raise a lot of money and it’s the last week to spend it. So you’ll see us spending in a lot of states where we haven’t.”_

Guess they are worried about even the "blue" states now (given they have only spent on swing states and "vulnerable" red states (in their minds) so far).

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## Penguin

T-72 said:


> but this isn't exclusively a discussion about Trump vs Clinton, the personalities. All I'm interested in is the geopolitical fallout (military situation wise in particular) from the American people's verdict.
> 
> you like skirting around stuff, so I'll just ask you this directly, are you opposed to Trump's proposed détente with Russia ?


Oh, so, because I want to talk about something other than you, I skirt things? My, my. You asking this is like me asking you "have you stopped beating your wife? - answer yes or no.

It is none of your business nor relevant what I think of either candidate. But if you look at the upcoming election in the US you have to ask of either candidate, what Is (s)he actual proposing v Russia? And will (s)he deliver upon election? Who advises them? What is their actual track record (as opposed to popular belief about it) ?

Hotspots: Support Russia, but with strings attached. (Jul 2000)
Foreign policy: Support NATO, but it's not us against Russia. (Aug 2015)
Diplomacy & respect crucial to our relationship with Russia. (Sep 2015)
Middle East: Good that Russia is involved in Syria. (Oct 2015)
Middle East: Let Russia bash ISIS; let Germany defend Ukraine. (Nov 2015)
Middle East: Let Russia make moves in Syria; it's a quagmire. (Nov 2015)
Snowden was a spy; if Russia respected us, they'd deport him. (Mar 2016)
Hotspots: Russia wants to defeat ISIS as badly as we do; work together. (Sep 2016)
Hotspots: Condemn Russian & any country's involvement in our elections. (Oct 2016)
http://www.ontheissues.org/Donald_Trump.htm

Focus on BRICs: Brazil, Russia, India, China, & South Africa. (Jun 2012)
Contain Russia or Putin will expand beyond Crimea. (Apr 2014)
Putin wants to reassert Russia's dominance in its own areas. (Jun 2014)
2012: Take a harder line with Russia's Putin. (Jun 2014)
Putin's annexing Crimea plays outdated zero-sum game. (Jun 2014)
Push Russia on press freedom; they've killed 20 journalists. (Jun 2014)
Russian reset: Pushed Obama to keep Putin at a distance. (Jun 2014)
We're already involved in Syria; deal with Russia there. (Oct 2015)
We won't have to shoot down Russians in Syrian no-fly zone. (Dec 2015)
Need more European contribution to defending against Russia. (Feb 2016)
Cooperate with Russia when possible & stand up when needed. (Oct 2016)
Unprecedented Russian interference in presidential election. (Oct 2016)
http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm

As a European, from a very small country, I'm all for detente with Russia. Heck, I'm for detente with every country. How can you not be? But - and this is a lesson of WW2 in Europe - it's not and cannot never a one way street. And I trust either candidate and campaign promises as far as I can throw them.



nick_indian said:


> What is your nationality if you dont mind ?










http://www.expatica.com/nl/about/30-facts-about-the-Netherlands_108857.html



Desert Fox said:


> And yet there is no proof the KGB (which no longer exists except in the minds of Democrats) hacked any of the *emails revealing Clinton Corruption*. Just peculation.


Yet somehow, I have more trust in the US Intelligence community's judgement than yours.

Indeed, since KGB was succeeded by FSK, which then became FSB, there is no longer KGB. The two major structural components of the former KGB that remain administratively independent of the FSB are the Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) and the State Guards (FSO). The FSB combines functions and powers similar to those exercised by the United States FBI National Security Branch, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the Federal Protective Service, the National Security Agency (NSA), U.S. Customs and Border Protection, United States Coast Guard, and partly the Drug Enforcement Administration. The FSB head answers directly to the RF president and the FSB director is the RF president's appointment, though he is a member of the RF government which is headed by the Chairman of Government; he also, _ex officio_, is a permanent member of the Security Council of Russia presided over by the president and chairman of the National Anti-terrorism Committee of Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Security_Service

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## Nilgiri

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ails-show-who-runs-america-and-how-they-do-it

Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run
Thomas Frank

WikiLeaks’ dump of messages to and from Clinton’s campaign chief offer an unprecedented view into the workings of the elite, and how it looks after itself

The emails currently roiling the US presidential campaign are part of some unknown digital collection amassed by the troublesome Anthony Weiner, but if your purpose is to understand the clique of people who dominate Washington today, the emails that really matter are the ones being slowly released by WikiLeaks from the hacked account of Hillary Clinton’s campaign chair John Podesta. They are last week’s scandal in a year running over with scandals, but in truth their significance goes far beyond mere scandal: they are a window into the soul of the Democratic party and into the dreams and thoughts of the class to whom the party answers.

The class to which I refer is not rising in angry protest; they are by and large pretty satisfied, pretty contented. Nobody takes road trips to exotic West Virginia to see what the members of this class looks like or how they live; on the contrary, they are the ones for whom such stories are written. This bunch doesn’t have to make do with a comb-over TV mountebank for a leader; for this class, the choices are always pretty good, and this year they happen to be excellent.

They are the comfortable and well-educated mainstay of our modern Democratic party. They are also the grandees of our national media; the architects of our software; the designers of our streets; the high officials of our banking system; the authors of just about every plan to fix social security or fine-tune the Middle East with precision droning. *They are, they think, not a class at all but rather the enlightened ones, the people who must be answered to but who need never explain themselves.*

Let us turn the magnifying glass on them for a change, by sorting through the hacked personal emails of John Podesta, who has been a Washington power broker for decades. I admit that I feel uncomfortable digging through this hoard; stealing someone’s email is a crime, after all, and it is outrageous that people’s personal information has been exposed, since WikiLeaks doesn’t seem to have redacted the emails in any way. There is also the issue of authenticity to contend with: we don’t know absolutely and for sure that these emails were not tampered with by whoever stole them from John Podesta. The supposed authors of the messages are refusing to confirm or deny their authenticity, and though they seem to be real, there is a small possibility they aren’t.

With all that taken into consideration, I think the WikiLeaks releases furnish us with an opportunity to observe the upper reaches of the American status hierarchy in all its righteousness and majesty.

The dramatis personae of the liberal class are all present in this amazing body of work: financial innovators. High-achieving colleagues attempting to get jobs for their high-achieving children. Foundation executives doing fine and noble things. Prizes, of course, and high academic achievement.

Certain industries loom large and virtuous here. Hillary’s ingratiating speeches to Wall Street are well known of course, but what is remarkable is that, in the party of Jackson and Bryan and Roosevelt, smiling financiers now seem to stand on every corner, constantly proffering advice about this and that. In one now-famous email chain, for example, the reader can watch current US trade representative Michael Froman, writing from a Citibank email address in 2008, appear to name President Obama’s cabinet even before the great hope-and-change election was decided (incidentally, an important clue to understanding why that greatest of zombie banks was never put out of its misery).

The far-sighted innovators of Silicon Valley are also here in force, interacting all the time with the leaders of the party of the people. We watch as Podesta appears to email Sheryl Sandberg. He makes plans to visit Mark Zuckerberg (who, according to one missive, wants to “learn more about next steps for his philanthropy and social action”). Podesta exchanges emails with an entrepreneur about an ugly race now unfolding for Silicon Valley’s seat in Congress; this man, in turn, appears to forward to Podesta the remarks of yet another Silicon Valley grandee, who complains that one of the Democratic combatants in that fight was criticizing billionaires who give to Democrats. Specifically, the miscreant Dem in question was said to be:

“… spinning (and attacking) donors who have supported Democrats. John Arnold and Marc Leder have both given to Cory Booker, Joe Kennedy, and others. He is also attacking every billionaire that donates to [Congressional candidate] Ro [Khanna], many whom support other Democrats as well.”

Attacking billionaires! In the year 2015! It was, one of the correspondents appears to write, “madness and political malpractice of the party to allow this to continue”.

There are wonderful things to be found in this treasure trove when you search the gilded words “Davos” or “Tahoe”. But it is when you search “Vineyard” on the WikiLeaks dump that you realize these people truly inhabit a different world from the rest of us. By “vineyard”, of course, they mean Martha’s Vineyard, the ritzy vacation resort island off the coast of Massachusetts where presidents Clinton and Obama spent most of their summer vacations. The Vineyard is a place for the very, very rich to unwind, yes, but as we learn from these emails, it is also a place of high idealism; a land of enlightened liberal commitment far beyond anything ordinary citizens can ever achieve.

Consider, for example, the 2015 email from a foundation executive to a retired mortgage banker (who then seems to have forwarded the note on to Podesta, and thus into history) expressing concern that “Hillary’s image is being torn apart in the media and there’s not enough effective push back”. The public eavesdrops as yet another financier invites Podesta to a dinner featuring “food produced exclusively by the island’s farmers and fishermen which will be matched with specially selected wines”. We learn how a Hillary campaign aide recommended that a policy statement appear on a certain day so that “It wont get in the way of any other news we are trying to make – but far enough ahead of Hamptons and Vineyard money events”. We even read the pleadings of a man who wants to be invited to a state dinner at the White House and who offers, as one of several exhibits in his favor, the fact that he “joined the DSCC Majority Trust in Martha’s Vineyard (contributing over $32,400 to Democratic senators) in July 2014”.

(Hilariously, in another email chain, the Clinton team appears to scheme to “hit” Bernie Sanders for attending “DSCC retreats on Martha’s Vineyard with lobbyists”.)

Then there is the apparent nepotism, the dozens if not hundreds of mundane emails in which petitioners for this or that plum Washington job or high-profile academic appointment politely appeal to Podesta – the ward-heeler of the meritocratic elite – for a solicitous word whispered in the ear of a powerful crony.

This genre of Podesta email, in which people try to arrange jobs for themselves or their kids, points us toward the most fundamental thing we know about the people at the top of this class: their loyalty to one another and the way it overrides everything else. Of course Hillary Clinton staffed her state department with investment bankers and then did speaking engagements for investment banks as soon as she was done at the state department. Of course she appears to think that any kind of bank reform should “come from the industry itself”. And of course no elite bankers were ever prosecuted by the Obama administration. Read these emails and you understand, with a start, that the people at the top tier of American life all know each other. They are all engaged in promoting one another’s careers, constantly.

Everything blurs into everything else in this world. The state department, the banks, Silicon Valley, the nonprofits, the “Global CEO Advisory Firm” that appears to have solicited donations for the Clinton Foundation. Executives here go from foundation to government to thinktank to startup. There are honors. Venture capital. Foundation grants. Endowed chairs. Advanced degrees. For them the door revolves. The friends all succeed. They break every boundary.

*But the One Big Boundary remains. Yes, it’s all supposed to be a meritocracy. But if you aren’t part of this happy, prosperous in-group – if you don’t have John Podesta’s email address – you’re out.*

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## RabzonKhan

Oh my, Donnie is back in love with polls, see the hypocrisy, when he is losing, “polls are rigged” but now he has a small lead of one point, it's “wow”. What an embarrassment!



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/793421274043285504


Hillary is still kicking his a$s 



*Electoral College Projections as of October 31st*

*October 31, 2016*
Hillary Clinton's advantage over Donald Trump has eroded somewhat since our last review of electoral forecasts on October 26th. Much of the change has been around forecasters moving states to toss-up that they had previously characterized as leaning toward Clinton.

Several forecasters followed this reclassification with Florida as it has tightened considerably in the polls. Trump has led in two of the last four polls there and only trailing by one in the other two. With its 29 electoral votes, the Sunshine State is pretty close to a must-win for the Republican nominee.

Hillary Clinton now averages 293 electoral votes, down 13 from last Wednesday. Donald Trump is at 183, a gain of four. The changed forecasts are highlighted in bold in the table below. You can find all the associated maps, as well as a few others, on our 2016 Presidential Election Forecasts page. *Link*


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## Kaniska

RabzonKhan said:


> The million dollar question is, why won't Trump release his taxes, what the hell is he hiding, could it be his business deals with Russia?
> 
> Here is an interesting fact, except for Trump, every Democrat/Republican nominee for the past 40 years has released their tax returns. Yeah, right, he's going to make America great again. It's time. Mr. Puppet release your taxes!
> 
> Hillary has released her tax returns from 2000 to 2015. *Link*
> 
> *
> What Trump’s Tax Returns Could Tell Us About His Dealings with Russia*
> 
> *In the wake of Harry Reid’s accusations, it’s critical to America’s national security for Trump to open up.*
> 
> By Norman Eisen and Richard W. Painter
> 
> October 31, 2016
> 
> Over the weekend, as controversy raged over FBI Director James Comey’s letter to Congress about Anthony Weiner's laptop, *Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway responded by calling for “full disclosure and transparency, honesty and immediacy.”*
> 
> *That same standard should be applied by Trump to an issue he himself has avoided for months: his tax returns and what they might say about his dealings and holdings overseas. For the past four decades, every other presidential candidate has released his or her returns. Only Trump has refused.*
> 
> *And make no mistake: This is now a major national security issue, especially in light of Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid’s extraordinary allegation, in a letter of his own to the embattled Comey, that “in my communications with you and other top officials in the national security community, it has become clear that you possess explosive information about close ties and coordination between Donald Trump, his top advisors, and the Russian government.”*
> 
> Trump says his tax returns reveal nothing that is not already disclosed on his official candidate financial disclosure, called Form 278e. As ethics counsels to the past two presidents, we dealt with both their tax filings and their Form 278's and so we know that Trump is wrong. His tax filings have an enormous amount of additional information which, in this case, could be critically important to determining whether his business overseas might affect his decision-making as president. *That is because Trump’s 12,000-page tax return may tell us a great deal about his Russian and other foreign business ties that is not on his 104-page campaign financial disclosure. It’s now more vital than ever that we get that information in light of Trump's embrace of Russian hacking, leaking and interference in our election.*
> 
> If the public saw Trump's taxes, we could check his Russia connections for ourselves. That should start with the troubling discrepancies in how he and his closest associates talk about his Russia ties. Trump has claimed, for example, that “the reason they blame Russia [for hacking into Democratic emails] is they are trying to tarnish me with Russia. I know about Russia, but not about the inner workings. I have no business there and no loans from Russia. I have a great balance sheet.” But that’s very different from the claims that the Trump Organization was making before he decided to run for president. *Trump's son said in 2008 that “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross section of a lot of our assets” and “we see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”*
> 
> *Trump’s tax returns could reconcile the tension between these statements. Even if Trump really does have no loans from Russia and no business in that jurisdiction, what about other financial connections with Russians outside of their land? His statement does not rule out such ties, including shared partnership interests, equity interests, joint ventures or licensing agreements with Russia or Russians—both by Trump and his affiliated companies.*
> 
> More broadly there is the issue of Trump’s business dealings around the world. U.S. tax filers with financial dealings outside the country are required to provide detailed information about their foreign business activity to the IRS.
> 
> If we had Trump's tax returns, the documents could, for example, allow closer scrutiny of the widespread foreign deals licensing his name for projects and products. The needed vetting is not only a matter of who the foreign licensors are (including participants in partnerships and firms doing the licensing). It also concerns the critical question whether he is using offshore tax havens to own these licensing assets or shelter income from them. In his foreign licensing deals, Trump emphasizes the importance of political connections, Vanity Fair reported in August. “The nice part [of the licensing model] is you have local people, local developers: they know the government, they know the presidents of the country, the prime ministers of the country, and all of those things,” Trump said. “Now, I help them a lot: If they need zoning, and they say they are doing a Trump job, every single time they get their zoning because the government wants Trump.”
> 
> There are other problems with Trump's sole reliance on his 104-page campaign disclosure under the current circumstances. That document may be missing some foreign entities with which he is associated because of exclusions: The 278e need not show assets with losses, for example, if they no longer have a positive value. Given the way Trump does business, there may be many such assets that do show up on his tax returns, and that could reflect Russian or other foreign ties.
> 
> One other shortcoming of the campaign disclosure: It is a current report, which doesn’t go back before the reporting period. That period varies for the different parts of the 278e report, but is generally no longer than the preceding calendar year or two. By contrast, Hillary Clinton has provided 38 years of her tax filings. Given the heightened scrutiny called for by Trump's extraordinary statements about Russia, don't we need to know if he had Russian business dealings three or more years ago and what those dealings were?
> 
> *Trump may counter these questions by asserting that his taxes contain no such information. But should we take his word for it, given his apparent support for Russian criminal meddling in our democratic process? Clinton did not ask people to trust her assertions of what was on her tax filings; she disclosed them.* *So has every other recent presidential candidate. Ronald Reagan’s adage for arms negotiations with the Soviets two decades ago was “trust but verify.”*
> 
> Perhaps it is time for voters of all political persuasions to tell Trump the same thing that Reagan told Mikhail Gorbachev: no verification, no deal. *Link*




Just wondering if Trump wins and US and Russia became ally to each other, then world order will change drastically.


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## Penguin

Nilgiri said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ails-show-who-runs-america-and-how-they-do-it
> 
> Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run
> Thomas Frank
> 
> WikiLeaks’ dump of messages to and from Clinton’s campaign chief offer an unprecedented view into the workings of the elite, and how it looks after itself


So, you think it is any different in the Republican Party? Or do you think there isn't an elite there too?

May I recommend "The Power Elite" by C. Wright Mills (1956)



> According to Mills, the eponymous "power elite" are those that occupy the dominant positions, in the dominant institutions (military, economic and political) of a dominant country, and their decisions (or lack of decisions) have enormous consequences, not only for the U.S. population but, "the underlying populations of the world." The institutions which they head, Mills posits, are a triumvirate of groups that have succeeded weaker predecessors: (1) "two or three hundred giant corporations" which have replaced the traditional agrarian and craft economy, (2) a strong federal political order that has inherited power from "a decentralized set of several dozen states" and "now enters into each and every crany of the social structure," and (3) the military establishment, formerly an object of "distrust fed by state militia," but now an entity with "all the grim and clumsy efficiency of a sprawling bureaucratic domain."
> 
> Importantly, and in distinction from modern American conspiracy theory, Mills explains that the elite themselves may not be aware of their status as an elite, noting that "often they are uncertain about their roles" and "without conscious effort, they absorb the aspiration to be ... The Ones Who Decide." Nonetheless, he sees them as a quasi-hereditary caste. The members of the "power elite," according to Mills, often enter into positions of societal prominence through educations obtained at eastern establishment universities like Harvard, Princeton, and Yale. But, Mills notes, "Harvard or Yale or Princeton is not enough ... the point is not Harvard, but which Harvard?" Mills identifies two classes of Ivy League alumni, those initiated into an upper echelon fraternity or final club, such as Porcellian and Fly Club, and those who are not. Those so initiated, Mills continues, receive their invitations based on social links first established in elite private preparatory academies, where they are enrolled as part of antebellum family traditions. In this manner, the mantle of the elite generally passes through families.
> 
> Historically prominent families, such as the Kennedy family, form the "Metropolitan 400." Shown here are Rose and Joseph Kennedy in 1940.
> 
> The resulting elites, who control the three dominant institutions (military, economic and political) can be generally grouped into one of six types, according to Mills:
> 
> 
> the "Metropolitan 400" - members of historically notable local families in the principal American cities, generally represented on the Social Register
> "Celebrities" - prominent entertainers and media personalities
> the "Chief Executives" - presidents and CEO's of the most important companies within each industrial sector
> the "Corporate Rich" - major landowners and corporate shareholders
> the "Warlords" - senior military officers, most importantly the Joint Chiefs of Staff
> the "Political Directorate" - "fifty-odd men of the executive branch" of the U.S. federal government, including the senior leadership in the Executive Office of the President, sometimes variously drawn from elected officials of the Democratic and Republican parties but usually professional government bureaucrats


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_Elite

Anyway, who stands to gain from helping create such a media circus?

*Reports detail Trump campaign’s alleged ties to Russia*
https://www.yahoo.com/news/reports-detail-trump-campaigns-alleged-ties-to-russia-190230912.html

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## Nilgiri

Penguin said:


> So, you think it is any different in the Republican Party? Or do you think there isn't an elite there too?



Of course its not different there. But none of their establishment candidates could prevail against outsider Trump. Should be interesting to see if the establishment is finally going to lose. Its come to desperation level now.

Democrat and Republican establishment are two sides of the same coin. They would prefer the other over a wild card...thus taking down Bernie and attempting to now do the same for Trump. I guess they didn't expect Trump to go all in and call their semi-bluff. Lets see who has the better hand come November 8th.

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## flamer84



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## RabzonKhan

C130 said:


> Hillary Clinton would have done the same thing. She actually has been worse to people disrupting her.


You must be kidding.

Ok, let's compare:






















Solomon2 said:


> "...Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life."
> 
> 
> I didn't present what I wrote as an exact quote, did I? I think I presented a fair summary of this statement in its given context.



Sorry, you are just cherry picking, if you read his entire statement, it was quite clearly a sweeping statement against all Muslims and their religion, and had nothing to do with “immigrant screening issues”.





> Yes, indeed! There's a lot to criticize about Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The ADL immediately recognized it as an anti-Semitic image, and there was this trifecta of symbols — the Jewish star, next to a political leader, on a pile of money — referencing age-old stereotypes of Jews and money and Jews and government control,”
> 
> 
> I had to look twice to realize that. They may simply have chosen the six-pointed star to fit the words inside, you know. So they get a one-time pass for ignorance - no apology necessary. Question is, once the ADL educated the Trump campaign about this, did they ever employ this or a similar ad a second time?



Oh my goodness, are you really serious, who is running his campaign, 10-year-olds, who did not know what that image symbolized?! But here is the problem with your hilarious excuse, that image came from a racist website and ended up in Trump's twitter account, so please, next time, come up with a better excuse.


Yes, after that controversy, Trump has made more anti-Jewish comments, I'll try to find them and post them here next time.




> “We’re not calling Trump an anti-Semite or a bigot, and we know we cannot control who supports him,” Bannett continued, “but his campaign has emboldened white supremacists and he needs to make it clear that bigotry and hate has no place in his campaign...
> 
> 
> Yes, Trump has emboldened white supremacists. Part of that is the biased anti-Trump reporting, concentrating not on Trump but the extremists among supporters.. (I think I posted an example of how at least one of these was given the boot during a campaign rally.) No, Trump isn't going to "renounce bigotry" because such an un-nuanced wide call on the political stage would undermine his immigration-weeding agenda, whereas if he qualified it he would undermine supporters who like Trump because "he tells it like it is" - not that what Trump says is necessarily fact, but that it isn't wishy-washy. (They're wrong: Trump contradicts himself instead.)
> 
> 
> 
> A very worthy call. I'll point out, however, that those who have crossed Hillary or her more militant supporters realize that hatred is very much a part of the Clinton campaign. "Deplorables", anyone?



Absolutely incorrect, all the statements were made by Trump himself, it is him who has been dog whistling the freaking racists scums. Since I don't have time now, but I will show you his statements (dog whistles) and their reaction.


But you also have to give me some examples, since you have joined Trump's bandwagon for blaming the media for everything.





> True, but this is the 21st century, not the late 1930s. There is essentially no well-functioning system to filter out militant immigrants, as existed even before immigration was restricted in the 1920s - back then it was anarchists, if I recall correctly.



So what are you suggesting?


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## gambit

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL he doesn't care about what the world thinks, but is using capitals and bold fonts to scream his lungs out. What a desperation and humiliation.


If I am desperate and humiliated, then I say you are scared -- of Trump.

People like you are sheeple, meaning you want everyone to be the same, preferably like you. Europeans never liked it that Americans consistently insists on being non-European. We do not even want to be Canadians. The more different we are, the more afraid you become, and the more interested in our affairs, hoping whatever petty criticisms you level at US will make a difference.

So instead of focusing on what I say and how I say it about our elections, go look in the mirror and see the terrified kid that you really are.

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## Desert Fox

@gambit he's not European, he's too ashamed to show his true flags. He's just a useless troll.

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> You must be kidding.
> 
> Ok, let's compare:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, you are just cherry picking, if you read his entire statement, it was quite clearly a sweeping statement against all Muslims and their religion, and had nothing to do with “immigrant screening issues”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my goodness, are you really serious, who is running his campaign, 10-year-olds, who did not know what that image symbolized?! But here is the problem with your hilarious excuse, that image came from a racist website and ended up in Trump's twitter account, so please, next time, come up with a better excuse.
> 
> 
> Yes, after that controversy, Trump has made more anti-Jewish comments, I'll try to find them and post them here next time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely incorrect, all the statements were made by Trump himself, it is him who has been dog whistling the freaking racists scums. Since I don't have time now, but I will show you his statements (dog whistles) and their reaction.
> 
> 
> But you also have to give me some examples, since you have joined Trump's bandwagon for blaming the media for everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what are you suggesting?


And Hillary called Black men "super predators with no conscience".








Penguin said:


> Yet somehow, I have more trust in the US Intelligence community's judgement than yours.
> 
> Indeed, since KGB was succeeded by FSK, which then became FSB, there is no longer KGB. The two major structural components of the former KGB that remain administratively independent of the FSB are the Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) and the State Guards (FSO). The FSB combines functions and powers similar to those exercised by the United States FBI National Security Branch, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the Federal Protective Service, the National Security Agency (NSA), U.S. Customs and Border Protection, United States Coast Guard, and partly the Drug Enforcement Administration. The FSB head answers directly to the RF president and the FSB director is the RF president's appointment, though he is a member of the RF government which is headed by the Chairman of Government; he also, _ex officio_, is a permanent member of the Security Council of Russia presided over by the president and chairman of the National Anti-terrorism Committee of Russia.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Security_Service


Like i said, no proof the FBI or Trump are working with "KGB", only speculation and scare mongering by Conspiracy nutjobs like Hillary.

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## T-72

Penguin said:


> As a European, from a very small country, I'm all for detente with Russia. Heck, I'm for detente with every country. How can you not be? But - and this is a lesson of WW2 in Europe - it's not and cannot never a one way street. And I trust either candidate and campaign promises as far as I can throw them.


Fair enough, no way to know how or what either would do once in office but their rhetoric is all we have to go by for now, and based on that, Trump is the common sense candidate.

besides, pick a side, man, much more fun that way. 

-------------------------------------------




*Donald Trump Rally in Eau Claire, WI 11/1/16 





*



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
random news bits: 





http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/303869-dems-anxious-over-tightening-race

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...nother-weak-story-about-trump-s-ties-to-putin

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## maximuswarrior

gambit said:


> If I am desperate and humiliated, then I say you are scared -- of Trump.
> 
> People like you are sheeple, meaning you want everyone to be the same, preferably like you. Europeans never liked it that Americans consistently insists on being non-European. We do not even want to be Canadians. The more different we are, the more afraid you become, and the more interested in our affairs, hoping whatever petty criticisms you level at US will make a difference.
> 
> So instead of focusing on what I say and how I say it about our elections, go look in the mirror and see the terrified kid that you really are.



LMAO I'm scared of Trump? He is a God sent to me. We have been waiting for someone like Trump forever. Trump is the true face of America and its hypocritical ways. Trump will do things to your country that even China and Russia combined couldn't have imagined. Elect him and get humiliated. I don't care.

Stop judging me. You don't even know my name and are handing out lectures about who I am. Doesn't that say something about you? That is the thing with you Americans, isn't it? Always ready to hand out lectures and point with that hypocritical finger. Arrogance and hypocrisy at its best, but like I said. Hopefully Trump will set the record straight.

Be whatever you want to be, but you have been exposed to the bone. Hate and xenophobia are part of your DNA and you are a living proof of it. The world will keep judging you because you claim to be the best shining role model for the rest of the world. You are not a shining role model and whether you like it or not, these elections have made that clear as daylight.



Desert Fox said:


> @gambit he's not European, he's too ashamed to show his true flags. He's just a useless troll.



LMAO Says a fake wannabe Indian. He puts me on his ignore list, yet keeps replying indirectly. What a desperate coward. Too afraid to quote me directly? Why don't you get me banned if I'm false flagging you useless Trump worshiper? Isn't false flagging prohibited and against the forum rules? Report me and I challenge you. I dare you, but you are just an insignificant lair. No wonder you are attracted to sleazebags like Trump. Makes you feel good doesn't it? You must be proud of a bigot who calls an entire group of people rapists, mocks disabled people, ridicules a Pakistani Muslim soldier who gave his life, wants to grab women by their genitals and wants to ban an entire group of people belonging to a certain faith. I hope he gets elected and you get your wish. I hope you get to see what this man does to the world whilst rubbing your regretful hands. I yearn for that day.



Penguin said:


> So, you think it is any different in the Republican Party? Or do you think there isn't an elite there too?
> 
> May I recommend "The Power Elite" by C. Wright Mills (1956)
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_Elite
> 
> Anyway, who stands to gain from helping create such a media circus?
> 
> *Reports detail Trump campaign’s alleged ties to Russia*
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/reports-detail-trump-campaigns-alleged-ties-to-russia-190230912.html



Everyone knows that the Russians are pulling the strings and I'm glad that they are. It is payback time. Arrogance and hypocrisy only go that far. The Americans are responsible for a lot of misery and crap in the world today. You reap what you sow and that is the bitter truth.


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## Penguin

Desert Fox said:


> Like i said, no proof the FBI or Trump are working with "KGB", only speculation and scare mongering by Conspiracy nutjobs like Hillary.


I wasn't talking about the FBI working with FSB, that's just your imagination. As for Trump working with FSB, I didn't say that either. I pointed out that Russia is actively interfering, in a varietyof ways. But that is a point lost on you, because you're too busy being partisan, in an election you can't even vote in (but then again, you're not much for democratic process anyway, right? So how come you spend so much time on this?)

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## maximuswarrior

Penguin said:


> I wasn't talking about the FBI working with FSB, that's just your imagination. As for Trump working with FSB, I didn't say that either. I pointed out that Russia is actively interfering, in a varietyof ways. But that is a point lost on you, because you're too busy being partisan, in an election you can't even vote in (but then again, you're not much for democratic process anyway, right? So how come you spend so much time on this?)



The Russians are actively supporting Trump and aren't hiding their covert activities under a rug. Also, everyone knows how thoroughly Trump is involved with Russia on many fronts. Trump is a guy who has praised Putin over Obama and Hillary. How unprecedented is that? The Trump lunatics will go to any extent to defend their bigot. You are witnessing it first hand.

You are talking to a brick wall. Stop wasting your precious time and effort. This is a guy who can only put people on ignore lists once he loses an argument.


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## Penguin

maximuswarrior said:


> Everyone knows that the Russians are pulling the strings and I'm glad that they are. It is payback time. Arrogance and hypocrisy only go that far. The Americans are responsible for a lot of misery and crap in the world today. You reap what you sow and that is the bitter truth.


Sure. So, what you actually say is that Russia plays no role on the world stage, and does not have dirty hands. Yes, that is very grown up.


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## maximuswarrior

Penguin said:


> Sure. So, what you actually say is that Russia plays no role on the world stage, and does not have dirty hands. Yes, that is very grown up.



Where did you gather that? I've never said that Russia is free of sin, but don't say that the Americans are angels either. All I'm saying is that you reap what you sow. Whether we like it or not, Trump didn't fall from the sky. He represents a vast segment of the American society. He represents how many Americans feel and think. We can't deny that. It is nasty and ugly and we cannot disguise this hatred in anyway. The blatant hate has come to the forefront and we have to call a spade a spade. Blaming Russia won't conceal the hate-mongering exposed during these election campaigns. The Russians didn't cheer when Mexicans were called rapists. The Russians didn't cheer when Trump mocked a disabled reporter. The Russians didn't cheer when Trump announced a complete ban on Muslims etc. We all know who cheer and support Trump despite such hateful rhetoric.

The Russians are merely returning the favor now. The Cold War wounds haven't healed and who can even blame them.


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## raazh

So it is ok for America to have opinion on all the countries, can attack them, overthrow governments, influence elections or back xyz candidates, sponsor coups etc etc .. but if any other country does that then its TERRORISM ??


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## Penguin

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/orde...-interfere-in-the-u-s-presidential-elections/
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/27/u...sensus-grows-that-russia-hacked-dnc.html?_r=0
http://crooksandliars.com/2016/10/us-formally-accuses-russia-interfering

AND not just recently!

http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...n-revolutionizing-information-warfare/379880/
http://www.diplomaatia.ee/en/article/the-challenge-of-russias-anti-western-information-warfare/

Luckily here ate PDF we're not bothered by it.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12290-016-0395-5


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## maximuswarrior

raazh said:


> So it is ok for America to have opinion on all the countries, can attack them, overthrow governments, influence elections or back xyz candidates, sponsor coups etc etc .. but if any other country does that then its TERRORISM ??



Payback is a b!tch. Today the same country that is crying rivers and accusing others of interference is bearing the brunt of its own doing.

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## Penguin

maximuswarrior said:


> Where did you gather that? I've never said that Russia is free of sin, but don't say that the Americans are angels either. All I'm saying is that you reap what you sow. Whether we like it or not, Trump didn't fall from the sky. He represents a vast segment of the American society. he represents how many Americans feel and think. We can't deny that. It is nasty and ugly and we cannot disguise this in anyway. The blatant hate has come to the forefront and we have to call a spade a spade. Blaming Russia won't conceal the hate-mongering exposed during these election campaigns. Russians didn't cheer when Mexicans were called rapists. Russians didn't cheer when Trump mocked a disabled reporter. Russians didn't cheer when Trump announced a complete ban on Muslims etc.
> 
> The Russians are merely returning the favor now. The Cold War wounds haven't healed and who can even blame them.


So now moving from election to US role in the world? Bla. Trump in fact represents a (disappointed) portion of the US electorate that once voted for Ronald Reagan but then had to deal with the fallout of his policies.



raazh said:


> So it is ok for America to have opinion on all the countries, can attack them, overthrow governments, influence elections or back xyz candidates, sponsor coups etc etc .. but if any other country does that then its TERRORISM ??


WTF are you on about?

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## raazh

Penguin said:


> WTF are you on about?



The Fc*k im saying is that if America interferes in other countries business then is it OK for you ??


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## maximuswarrior

Penguin said:


> So now moving from election to US role in the world? Bla. Trump in fact represents a (disappointed) portion of the US electorate that once voted for Ronald Reagan but then had to deal with the fallout of his policies.
> 
> 
> WTF are you on about?



Don't give me that. It is complete BS and you know it. Why do Trump supporters cheer when Mexicans are labelled rapists? Why do Trump supporters cheer when he calls for a complete ban on Muslims? Trump is a guy who claims he doesn't know David Duke. Who is he kidding? Trump supporters are renowned for their hate and racism towards minorities and he caters to their views. These are Americans and not Russians. There are millions of other examples that I could cite which clearly demonstrate that Trump is an absolute jerk. Trump is an abhorrent figure, yet he continues to enjoy mass support from a certain bloc in the US. These people are not aggrieved. That is just BS. They are hateful, vengeful and angry at others for their own shortcomings. That is the bitter truth. These people have been supporting and electing political leaders for years that have ruined their lives. Don't blame this on Russia. There is no justification for the hate and you know it. Russia has nothing to do with the hatred that exists in the US.


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## Penguin

maximuswarrior said:


> . Why do Trump supporters cheer when Mexicans are labelled rapists?Why do Trump supporters cheer when he calls for a complete ban on Muslims?


Because they are male WASPs, whose (present for the older and future for the younger) jobs have been outsourced to other countries, in the Reagan era. So they hurt. And they are equally afraid of women. Micheal More got that right.



maximuswarrior said:


> There are millions of other examples that I could cite which clearly demonstrate that Trump is an absolute jerk. Trump is an abhorrent figure, yet he continues to enjoy mass support from a certain bloc in the US. These people are not aggrieved. That is just BS. They are hateful, vengeful and angry at others for their own shortcomings. That is the bitter truth. These people have been supporting and electing political leaders for years that have ruined their lives. Don't blame this on Russia. There is no justification for the hate and you know it. Russia has nothing to do with the hatred that exists in the US.


I think, when I said Trump caters to disillusioned Reaganites, that that is exactly what I said. Nevertheless, that doesn't precluded the active interference of Russia with the US electoral process via information warfare tactics. These are two thinks that aren't mutually exclusive (indeed, quite the contrary, the former is a precondition for the latter to have any chance of succes)

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## maximuswarrior

Penguin said:


> Because they are male WASPs, whose (present for the older and future for the younger) jobs have been outsourced to other countries, in the Reagan era. So they hurt. And they are equally afraid of women. Micheal More got that right.
> 
> 
> I think, when I said Trump caters to disillusioned Reaganites, that that is exactly what I said. Nevertheless, that doesn't precluded the active interference of Russia with the US electoral process via information warfare tactics. These are two thinks that aren't mutually exclusive (indeed, quite the contrary, the former is a precondition for the latter to have any chance of succes)



Perhaps a small portion. There is no denying that many Trump supporters are cheering his awful ideas because they unequivocally relate to them. They cheer his insults and slurs towards Mexicans, Muslims, women, disabled people and so forth. I'm not buying that these are merely poor victims robbed of their jobs. They are vile and hateful creatures. Like I said, they are responsible for electing their own leaders. It was all dandy back then, but today everyone is reaping the harvest. Blaming others including Russia won't cut it.

There is absolutely no denying that Russia is cashing in and I say why not? Remember that the US is responsible for balkanizing and waging a Cold War against Russia. Russia and the US aren't the best of buddies to put it mildly. Yes, Russia would gladly interfere and support their man. Besides, can't we accuse the US of interfering in the elections of other nations? Russia is naturally going to support the guy which it deems as most favorable. Makes perfect sense. The US is renowned for overthrowing regimes and occupying nations because they are a threat to their interests. Russia is just hacking computer systems. I think we need to make that distinction.


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## jha

Lead shrinks to 1.7%. BTW the polls showing Clinton in lead were taken before 30th.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...s/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

Trump may still loose, but election is no cakewalk for Clinton .


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## gambit

maximuswarrior said:


> LMAO I'm scared of Trump? He is a God sent to me. *We have been waiting for someone like Trump forever.* Trump is the true face of America and its hypocritical ways. Trump will do things to your country that even China and Russia combined couldn't have imagined. Elect him and get humiliated. I don't care.


No, you do not. If Trump lives up to his own hype, he is going to be a nightmare for people like you. If Trump lives up to his promise and campaign slogan, America is going to run roughshod over whatever pissant country you are living in and there is not going to be a damn thing your country can do about it. We brought down the Soviet Union and changed China. No one can claim that credit, son. US humiliated ? By who ?



maximuswarrior said:


> Stop judging me.


Why ? For as long as you have been on this forum, you have no problems judging US and the Americans here. Now you are going to get a taste of your own medicine, little man.


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## Desert Fox

Penguin said:


> I wasn't talking about the FBI working with FSB, that's just your imagination. As for Trump working with FSB, I didn't say that either. I pointed out that Russia is actively interfering, in a varietyof ways. But that is a point lost on you, because you're too busy being partisan, in an election you can't even vote in (but then again, you're not much for democratic process anyway, right? So how come you spend so much time on this?)


You quoted (and edited, of course) my original post where i quoted the Democrat Campaign Manager *who clearly stated the FBI was involved in a conspiracy with the "KGB"*, i never mentioned anything about the FSB. So i think you veered of track, not me. Next time don't randomly quote people out of context and then not expect different answers.


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## Desert Fox

*Clinton Medias' Hypocrisy (WaPo): *
​*Before: Comey was "doing his job" when he absolved HRC. *

*Now: He's "damaging our Democracy" by reopening the investigation in light of new potential evidence.*

*




*​

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## maximuswarrior

gambit said:


> No, you do not. If Trump lives up to his own hype, he is going to be a nightmare for people like you. If Trump lives up to his promise and campaign slogan, America is going to run roughshod over whatever pissant country you are living in and there is not going to be a damn thing your country can do about it. We brought down the Soviet Union and changed China. No one can claim that credit, son. US humiliated ? By who ?
> 
> 
> Why ? For as long as you have been on this forum, you have no problems judging US and the Americans here. Now you are going to get a taste of your own medicine, little man.



Yes, I do. LMAO bring it on dude. LOL No one is afraid of Trump the lunatic. A guy who insults Muslims, Mexicans, women and disabled people. That is your potential president and you seem so proud. Disgusting to say the least. First things first though. You get your ugly fat a$$ out there to elect Trump and have a happy meal while you at it. LOL We won't have to do anything at all because each day Trump will humiliate and destroy your country little by little. Slowly and painfully. Just wait and see. His words have already caused so much controversy and division. Just imagine what his presidency will do to your country.

My country doesn't even piss on your hate mongering country. You are only good at waging wars and destroying other nations. Your history is filled with treachery. LMAO You are the creator of ISIS according to Trump's own admission. You are only good at ridiculing and blaming others for your own failures. Everyone is guilty in your book. Mexicans, Muslims and black African Americans. You are a citizen of a country that doesn't spare a Pakistani American Muslim soldier who gave his life for your country. No, instead you trample on his dead soul by ridiculing his sacrifices. His parents have to stand in front of the world to set the record straight. You mass spy on your people and the entire world. Edward Snowden has to flee for his life after exposing the truth to the world. What does that even say about you? You are in no position to lecture anyone. Have some darn shame you pathetic being. Yes, you are a disgrace and the irony is that you are too blind to see it.

LMAO at we brought down the Soviet Union! With the help of your Jihadi brothers who are today wreaking havoc all over the place. Splendid job!

You changed China? Fvck off. China doesn't even piss on you. China hasn't changed one iota and the paranoia shown by your pathetic leaders on a daily basis is enough testimony. Stop inventing stuff. The world isn't crazy.

I'm not judging the Americans. Stop believing in your conspiracy tales you pathetic insecure being. I'm solely criticizing hypocritical US policies which adversely affect the rest of the world. I denounce your arrogance which is at full display every single day. Not even this forum is spared from your disgraceful behavior. Learn to differentiate between judging someone and criticism. I know you lack the judgement, but still have a try.


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## Solomon2

*Grifters-in-Chief*
The Clintons don’t draw lines between their ‘charity’ and personal enrichment.





Hillary and Bill Clinton in New York City, Sept. 22, 2014. PHOTO: GETTY IMAGES




By KIMBERLEY A. STRASSEL
Oct. 27, 2016 7:26 p.m. ET

In an election season that has been full of surprises, let’s hope the electorate understands that there is at least one thing of which it can be certain: A Hillary Clinton presidency will be built, from the ground up, on self-dealing, crony favors, and an utter disregard for the law.

This isn’t a guess. It is spelled out, in black and white, in the latest bombshell revelation from WikiLeaks. It comes in the form of a memo written in 2011 by longtime Clinton errand boy Doug Band,who for years worked simultaneously at the Clinton Foundation and at the head of his lucrative consulting business, Teneo.

*It is astonishingly detailed proof that the Clintons do not draw any lines between their “charitable” work, their political activity, their government jobs or (and most important) their personal enrichment. Every other American is expected to keep these pursuits separate, as required by tax law, anticorruption law and campaign-finance law. For the Clintons, it is all one and the same—the rules be damned.*

The memo came near the end of a 2011 review by law firm Simpson Thacher & Bartlett into Clinton Foundation practices. Chelsea Clinton had grown concerned about the audacious mixing of public and private, and the review was designed to ensure that the foundation didn’t lose its charitable tax status. Mr. Band, Teneo boss and epicenter of what he calls “ Bill Clinton, Inc.,” clearly felt under assault and was eager to brag up the ways in which his business had concurrently benefited the foundation, Clinton political causes and the Clinton bank account. The memoed result is a remarkably candid look at the sleazy inner workings of the Clinton grifters-in-chief.

The cross-pollination is flagrant, and Mr. Band gives example after example of how it works. He and his partner Declan Kelly (a Hillary Clinton fundraiser whom Mrs. Clinton rewarded by making him the State Department’s special envoy to Northern Ireland) buttered up their clients with special visits to Bill’s home and tête-à-tête golf rounds with the former president. They then “cultivated” these marks ( Coca-Cola, Dow Chemical, UBS) for foundation dollars, and then again for high-dollar Bill Clinton speeches and other business payouts.

Teneo’s incestuous behavior also included Mrs. Clinton’s State Department. The Band memo boasts that Mr. Kelly (while he was Mrs. Clinton’s State envoy) introduced the then-head of UBS Wealth Management, Bob McCann, to Bill Clinton at an American Ireland Fund event in 2009. “Mr. Kelly subsequently asked Mr. Mccann [sic] to support the Foundation, which he did . . . Mr. Kelly also encouraged Mr. Mccann [sic] to invite President Clinton to give several paid speeches, which he has done,” reads Mr. Band’s memo. UBS ultimately paid Bill $2 million.

American Ireland Fund meanwhile became a Teneo client, and made Mr. Kelly (of former State envoy fame) a trustee, where he “ensured that the AIF is a significant donor to the Foundation.” AIF then bestowed upon Mrs. Clinton a major award on her final trip to Northern Ireland in 2012, in an event partly sponsored by . . . Teneo.

Not that this is all one way. Mr. Band let slip just how useful all these arrangements were for Teneo, too, when he backhandedly apologized in the memo for hosting 15 client meetings in a hotel room rented by the Clinton Global Initiative.

*The memo removes any doubt that the foundation is little more than an unregistered super PAC working on the Clintons’ behalf. *Donors to the charity are simultaneously tapped to give Bill speech requests and other business arrangements, including the $3.5 million he was paid annually to serve as “honorary chairman” of Laureate International Universities. Mr. Band’s memo also notes his success at getting donors to “support candidates running for office that President Clinton was supporting.”

It’s now 2016 and Bill’s most favorite candidate is running for the presidency. There’s no question foundation donors are being “leveraged” for Mrs. Clinton.

Mr. Band wants credit in the memo for prodding existing foundation donors to pony up more money, though the donation statistics he provides paint a different picture. By and large, donations to the foundation begin to spike dramatically in 2009 and 2010. Mr. Band didn’t form Teneo until 2011. What was happening in 2009? Mrs. Clinton was sworn in as one of the most powerful politicians on the planet.

The obvious question is where are the prosecutors? (For that matter, where is Lois Lerner when you need her?) *Any nonprofit lawyer in America knows the ironclad rule of keeping private enrichment away from tax-exempt activity, for the simple reason that mixing the two involves ripping off taxpayers. Every election lawyer in the country lives in fear of stepping over the lines governing fundraising and election vehicles. The Clintons recognize no lines.*

Here’s the lasting takeaway: The Clintons spent their White House years explaining endless sleazy financial deals, and even capping their exit with a scandal over whether Bill was paid to pardon financier Marc Rich. They know the risks. And yet they geared up the foundation and these seedy practices even as Mrs. Clinton was making her first bid for the presidency. They continued them as she sat as secretary of state. They continue them still, as she nears the White House.

This is how the Clintons operate. They don’t change. *Any one who pulls the lever for Mrs. Clinton takes responsibility for setting up the nation for all the blatant corruption that will follow.*

_Write to kim@wsj.com._


----------



## maximuswarrior

Solomon2 said:


> *Grifters-in-Chief*
> The Clintons don’t draw lines between their ‘charity’ and personal enrichment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary and Bill Clinton in New York City, Sept. 22, 2014. PHOTO: GETTY IMAGES
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By KIMBERLEY A. STRASSEL
> Oct. 27, 2016 7:26 p.m. ET
> 
> In an election season that has been full of surprises, let’s hope the electorate understands that there is at least one thing of which it can be certain: A Hillary Clinton presidency will be built, from the ground up, on self-dealing, crony favors, and an utter disregard for the law.
> 
> This isn’t a guess. It is spelled out, in black and white, in the latest bombshell revelation from WikiLeaks. It comes in the form of a memo written in 2011 by longtime Clinton errand boy Doug Band,who for years worked simultaneously at the Clinton Foundation and at the head of his lucrative consulting business, Teneo.
> 
> *It is astonishingly detailed proof that the Clintons do not draw any lines between their “charitable” work, their political activity, their government jobs or (and most important) their personal enrichment. Every other American is expected to keep these pursuits separate, as required by tax law, anticorruption law and campaign-finance law. For the Clintons, it is all one and the same—the rules be damned.*
> 
> The memo came near the end of a 2011 review by law firm Simpson Thacher & Bartlett into Clinton Foundation practices. Chelsea Clinton had grown concerned about the audacious mixing of public and private, and the review was designed to ensure that the foundation didn’t lose its charitable tax status. Mr. Band, Teneo boss and epicenter of what he calls “ Bill Clinton, Inc.,” clearly felt under assault and was eager to brag up the ways in which his business had concurrently benefited the foundation, Clinton political causes and the Clinton bank account. The memoed result is a remarkably candid look at the sleazy inner workings of the Clinton grifters-in-chief.
> 
> The cross-pollination is flagrant, and Mr. Band gives example after example of how it works. He and his partner Declan Kelly (a Hillary Clinton fundraiser whom Mrs. Clinton rewarded by making him the State Department’s special envoy to Northern Ireland) buttered up their clients with special visits to Bill’s home and tête-à-tête golf rounds with the former president. They then “cultivated” these marks ( Coca-Cola, Dow Chemical, UBS) for foundation dollars, and then again for high-dollar Bill Clinton speeches and other business payouts.
> 
> Teneo’s incestuous behavior also included Mrs. Clinton’s State Department. The Band memo boasts that Mr. Kelly (while he was Mrs. Clinton’s State envoy) introduced the then-head of UBS Wealth Management, Bob McCann, to Bill Clinton at an American Ireland Fund event in 2009. “Mr. Kelly subsequently asked Mr. Mccann [sic] to support the Foundation, which he did . . . Mr. Kelly also encouraged Mr. Mccann [sic] to invite President Clinton to give several paid speeches, which he has done,” reads Mr. Band’s memo. UBS ultimately paid Bill $2 million.
> 
> American Ireland Fund meanwhile became a Teneo client, and made Mr. Kelly (of former State envoy fame) a trustee, where he “ensured that the AIF is a significant donor to the Foundation.” AIF then bestowed upon Mrs. Clinton a major award on her final trip to Northern Ireland in 2012, in an event partly sponsored by . . . Teneo.
> 
> Not that this is all one way. Mr. Band let slip just how useful all these arrangements were for Teneo, too, when he backhandedly apologized in the memo for hosting 15 client meetings in a hotel room rented by the Clinton Global Initiative.
> 
> *The memo removes any doubt that the foundation is little more than an unregistered super PAC working on the Clintons’ behalf. *Donors to the charity are simultaneously tapped to give Bill speech requests and other business arrangements, including the $3.5 million he was paid annually to serve as “honorary chairman” of Laureate International Universities. Mr. Band’s memo also notes his success at getting donors to “support candidates running for office that President Clinton was supporting.”
> 
> It’s now 2016 and Bill’s most favorite candidate is running for the presidency. There’s no question foundation donors are being “leveraged” for Mrs. Clinton.
> 
> Mr. Band wants credit in the memo for prodding existing foundation donors to pony up more money, though the donation statistics he provides paint a different picture. By and large, donations to the foundation begin to spike dramatically in 2009 and 2010. Mr. Band didn’t form Teneo until 2011. What was happening in 2009? Mrs. Clinton was sworn in as one of the most powerful politicians on the planet.
> 
> The obvious question is where are the prosecutors? (For that matter, where is Lois Lerner when you need her?) *Any nonprofit lawyer in America knows the ironclad rule of keeping private enrichment away from tax-exempt activity, for the simple reason that mixing the two involves ripping off taxpayers. Every election lawyer in the country lives in fear of stepping over the lines governing fundraising and election vehicles. The Clintons recognize no lines.*
> 
> Here’s the lasting takeaway: The Clintons spent their White House years explaining endless sleazy financial deals, and even capping their exit with a scandal over whether Bill was paid to pardon financier Marc Rich. They know the risks. And yet they geared up the foundation and these seedy practices even as Mrs. Clinton was making her first bid for the presidency. They continued them as she sat as secretary of state. They continue them still, as she nears the White House.
> 
> This is how the Clintons operate. They don’t change. *Any one who pulls the lever for Mrs. Clinton takes responsibility for setting up the nation for all the blatant corruption that will follow.*
> 
> _Write to kim@wsj.com._



So what do you propose? We opt for a misogynistic, racist, Islamophobic, sexist xenophobe instead? What other choices are you offering?


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## Solomon2

maximuswarrior said:


> So what do you propose? We opt for a misogynistic racist Islamophobic xenophobe instead?


You left out, "ignorant", "rude", and "dishonest". But "Islamophobic" seems inaccurate as "phobia" is meant to depict an _unreasonable_ fear, whereas Trump's position is that "Muslims have to report the problems when they see them" - as is expected from everyone else, and was how some white supremacists planning terror were taken down last week: a girlfriend informed on them to law enforcement.

So what "Islamophobia" you perceive in Trump is likely just part of his already-existing xenophobia. Since Trump has married non-American women and hired (and then cheated) foreign workers for his projects he clearly doesn't fear foreign _individuals;_ rather, the fear he expresses appears to be that of invasive foreign _cultures_ - he rejects multi-culturalism, the idea that every culture is equally good and morally valid or acceptable.


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## maximuswarrior

Solomon2 said:


> You left out, "ignorant", "rude", and "dishonest". But "Islamophobic" seems inaccurate as "phobia" is meant to depict an _unreasonable_ fear, whereas Trump's position is that "Muslims have to report the problems when they see them" - as is expected from everyone else, and was how some white supremacists planning terror were taken down last week: a girlfriend informed on them to law enforcement.
> 
> So what "Islamophobia" you perceive in Trump is likely just part of his already-existing xenophobia. Since Trump has married non-American women and hired (and then cheated) foreign workers for his projects. So he doesn't fear foreign individuals; rather, the fear he expresses appears to be that of invasive foreign _cultures_ - he rejects multi-culturalism, the idea that every culture is equally good and morally valid or acceptable.



Your denial of Islamophobia is to be expected, but the world including sane American citizens luckily understand the reality. Trump is an ugly Islamofobe who wants to ban Muslims. Nothing more nothing less. There is no justification for his ugly and hateful message. No amount of sugarcoating can justify his heinous hatred.

You mean just like he fears black African Americans who get beaten up at his rallies? Or a disabled reporter which is mocked at his incredible rallies? What about the Mexicans who are labelled rapists and criminals? Trump and his white associates are afraid of everything around them. They are angry at everyone. It is not just Muslims. As for rejecting multiculturalism, that is a right wing myth to justify hate crimes against minorities including Muslims. The last time Breivik rejected multiculturalism he murdered innocent kids. We know what rejecting multiculturalism means nowadays. It is just a veil to justify hate against others.


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## Penguin

maximuswarrior said:


> Perhaps a small portion. There is no denying that many Trump supporters are cheering his awful ideas because they unequivocally relate to them. They cheer his insults and slurs towards Mexicans, Muslims, women, disabled people and so forth. I'm not buying that these are merely poor victims robbed of their jobs. They are vile and hateful creatures. Like I said, they are responsible for electing their own leaders. It was all dandy back then, but today everyone is reaping the harvest. Blaming others including Russia won't cut it.


Again, nobody blamed Russia for Trump, But that doesn't mean there isn't a relation between the two.

If you were 18 or older in 1980 and voted for Reagan, you are now 54 or older.

So, who supports Trump?

See for yourself:
http://www.usatoday.com/pages/interactives/trump-nation/#/?_k=061lw7
https://www.yahoo.com/news/who-s-re...traits-beyond-the-polls-061622809.html?ref=gs

Back in December, a _Washington Post_ analysis found that Trump's support skewed male, white, and poor. The male-female gap was 19 percentage points (47 percent support among men vs. 28 percent among women). He won a whopping 50 percent of voters making less than $50,000, 18 percentage points ahead of his support with those who earned more than that amount.
The single best predictor of Trump support in the GOP primary is the absence of a college degree. Diplomas are what Ron Brownstein calls the “new Republican fault line.” Although white men without a college education haven’t suffered the same historical discrimination as blacks or women, their suffering is not imagined. The Hamilton Project has found that the full-time, full-year employment rate of men without a bachelor's degree fell from 76 percent in 1990 to 68 percent in 2013. While real wages have grown for men and women with a four-year degree or better in the last 25 years, they've fallen meaningfully for non-college men. Non-college men have been trampled by globalization, the dissolution of manufacturing employment, and other factors, for the last few decades.
Voters who agreed with the statement “people like me don't have any say about what the government does” were 86.5 percent more likely to prefer Trump. This feeling of powerlessness and voicelessness was a much better predictor of Trump support than age, race, college attainment, income, attitudes towards Muslims, illegal immigrants, or Hispanic identity.
The classic definition of authoritarianism implies a tradeoff—more security for less liberty—but MacWilliams says it’s also about identifying threatening outsiders and granting individuals special powers to pursue aggressive policies to destroy them.The best predictor of Trump support isn't income, education, or age, he says. In South Carolina, it was “authoritarianism … [and] a personal fear of terrorism”
Find a map of the United States and draw a thick red mark just east of the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers. That's Trump Country. Trump’s support is strongest from the Gulf Coast, through the Appalachian Mountains, to New York, among marginally attached Republicans (possibly former Democrats). It is a familiar map for some demographers, since it’s similar to a heat map of Google searches for  racial slurs and jokes.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/who-are-donald-trumps-supporters-really/471714/




maximuswarrior said:


> There is absolutely no denying that Russia is cashing in and I say why not? Remember that the US is responsible for balkanizing and waging a Cold War against Russia. Russia and the US aren't the best of buddies to put it mildly.


Oh, so it is the US that is responsible for fear in Russia in former Warsaw Pact countries? It has no relation with the post-worldwar2 period of Russian dominance - occupation - of those countries? And Russia is not doing anything to bring about a Cold War itself? See e.g. military exercises, irresponsible military behaviour are sea and in the air? Placing moore troops and potentially nuclear short range ballistic missiles smack in the heart of Europe? If the US and Russia aren't best of friends, that is the fault of the US, and never Russia itself?



maximuswarrior said:


> Yes, Russia would gladly interfere and support their man. Besides, can't we accuse the US of interfering in the elections of other nations? Russia is naturally going to support the guy which it deems as most favorable. Makes perfect sense. The US is renowned for overthrowing regimes and occupying nations because they are a threat to their interests. Russia is just hacking computer systems. I think we need to make that distinction.


There is a very big difference between having and voicing a preference for one candidate or another and actively engaging in information warfare. But you know this. Apparently you think it is ok for Russia to hacks DNC computers.
And sure, the US never went anywhere with a UN mandate, right?. And the UN ok, that means your country's ok too!

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## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> Trump the lunatic. A guy who insults Muslims, Mexicans, women.. pussy grabbing Islamophobe mean tweeter nazi ..


weak sauce, bro







maximuswarrior said:


> My country doesn't even piss on your hate mongering country.


curious, which is _your_ country, the Netherlands or Pakistan ? 




-----------------------------------------------------------

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## Penguin

Desert Fox said:


> You quoted (and edited, of course) my original post where i quoted the Democrat Campaign Manager *who clearly stated the FBI was involved in a conspiracy with the "KGB"*, i never mentioned anything about the FSB. So i think you veered of track, not me. Next time don't randomly quote people out of context and then not expect different answers.


Oh really? Hang on.


YOUR Post #2032

https://defence.pk/threads/us-presi...6-news-and-views.374363/page-136#post-8873358

_Like i said, no proof the FBI or Trump are working with "KGB", only speculation and scare mongering by Conspiracy nutjobs like Hillary._


MY post #2035

https://defence.pk/threads/us-presi...6-news-and-views.374363/page-136#post-8873778

[_Desert Fox said: ↑ 


Like i said, no proof the FBI or Trump are working with "KGB", only speculation and scare mongering by Conspiracy nutjobs like Hillary._]


_I wasn't talking about the FBI working with FSB, that's just your imagination. As for Trump working with FSB, I didn't say that either. I pointed out that Russia is actively interfering, in a varietyof ways. But that is a point lost on you, because you're too busy being partisan, in an election you can't even vote in (but then again, you're not much for democratic process anyway, right? So how come you spend so much time on this?) _

Clearly there was no editting. More of your BS?

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## Solomon2

maximuswarrior said:


> Your denial of Islamophobia is to be expected -


Since you offer no counterargument AND say you expected my response, that implies you knew that you threw out "Islamophobic" as a smear. 

(Oh, and I forgot to add that Trump's a male chauvinist. Very important.)



> - but the world including sane American citizens luckily understand the reality.


It's not "luck" but the mainstream media.



> Trump is an ugly Islamofobe who wants to ban Muslims. Nothing more nothing less. There is no justification for his ugly and hateful message. No amount of sugarcoating can justify his heinous hatred.


9/11, ISIS, Hezbollah, Iran - they're all "no justification" to you. GOt it.



> You mean just like he fears black African Americans who get beaten up at his rallies?


Note that these few incidents are by individuals, whereas most of the campaign violence has been anti-Trump and if Wikileaks James O'Keefe is to be believed, may be politically organized by parts of the Clinton campaign.



> What about the Mexicans who are labelled rapists and criminals?


_See_ "9 Things You Need To Know About Illegal Immigration And Crime"



> Trump and his white associates are afraid of everything around them. They are angry at everyone. It is not just Muslims. As for rejecting multiculturalism, that is a right wing myth to justify hate crimes against minorities including Muslims. The last time Breivik rejected multiculturalism he murdered innocent kids. We know what rejecting multiculturalism means nowadays. It is just a veil to justify hate against others.


There's no indication that Trump supports violent anti-multiculturalism a la Breivik; cultural acceptance of such violence is, however, associated with may of the Muslim Arabs of the Middle East and their supporters, Dubai being the most notable exception.


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## cloud4000

I live in Massachusetts and it allows early voting. So I cast my vote today. I must tell you that living in Massachusetts is like living in China -- it's a one-party state. Most of the people running for the various offices, national and local, are not only all Democrats but are running unopposed. 

So I just voted for president, the only one that matters. And I voted for Johnson/Weld -- the only sane choice in a race filled with sociopaths and nutcases.

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## T-72

at this stage, Weld might as well come out as a Hillary Proxy, maybe we'll get confirmation in the next wikidump.


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## Desert Fox

Penguin said:


> Oh really? Hang on.
> 
> 
> YOUR Post #2032
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/us-presi...6-news-and-views.374363/page-136#post-8873358
> 
> _Like i said, no proof the FBI or Trump are working with "KGB", only speculation and scare mongering by Conspiracy nutjobs like Hillary._
> 
> 
> MY post #2035
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/us-presi...6-news-and-views.374363/page-136#post-8873778
> 
> [_Desert Fox said: ↑
> 
> 
> Like i said, no proof the FBI or Trump are working with "KGB", only speculation and scare mongering by Conspiracy nutjobs like Hillary._]
> 
> 
> _I wasn't talking about the FBI working with FSB, that's just your imagination. As for Trump working with FSB, I didn't say that either. I pointed out that Russia is actively interfering, in a varietyof ways. But that is a point lost on you, because you're too busy being partisan, in an election you can't even vote in (but then again, you're not much for democratic process anyway, right? So how come you spend so much time on this?) _
> 
> Clearly there was no editting. More of your BS?


And yet you proved my point again. You quote one thing and turn it into something else. Now stop wasting my time.


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## Solomon2

cloud4000 said:


> I live in Massachusetts and it allows early voting. So I cast my vote today. I must tell you that living in Massachusetts is like living in China -- it's a one-party state.


I don't think that's a fair comparison. You can register as a Democrat and vote in the primaries between different Democratic candidates. And these candidates don't need to get vetted by the Dem Party hierarchy to get on the ballot, do they? Just 10,000 signatures from other registered Dem Party voters will get you on a statewide ballot: link

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## Penguin

Desert Fox said:


> And yet you proved my point again. You quote one thing and turn it into something else. Now stop wasting my time.


`No, not really. Well, maybe in your alternate reality, but here in the real world, there was no editting, which was amply demonstrated. 

YOU keep posting, why don't YOU stop wasting both our time.


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## T-72




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## Penguin

T-72 said:


>


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## Desert Fox

Penguin said:


> `No, not really. Well, maybe in your alternate reality, but here in the real world, there was no editting, which was amply demonstrated.


I think you suffer from dementia.



Penguin said:


> `YOU keep posting


You quoted me first moron. Stop quoting me. Obsessed much?


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## Solomon2

Mississippi Church Torched And Vandalized With Pro-Trump Slogan

An ugly incident and due to its timing so close to the election itself, unlikely to determine before the election if it was a "dirty trick" by Clinton supporters or a genuine hate-crime by a Trumpkin.


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## T-72

Solomon2 said:


> Mississippi Church Torched And Vandalized With Pro-Trump Slogan
> 
> An ugly incident and due to its timing so close to the election itself, unlikely to determine before the election if it was a "dirty trick" by Clinton supporters or a genuine hate-crime by a Trumpkin.


most likely the former, Trump is winning big league, why would his supporters do that kind of thing now, it makes no sense.



Desert Fox said:


> I think you suffer from dementia.


lol, I think @Penguin is an oldschool European lefty idealist and is mostly mad at Trump for his mean sexist islamophobic tweets but is trying hard to not out his political/ideological bent here. 

hacking is nothing new








for example, the Han hacked Sam and stole his F-35 plans, made a made in China version, and will further undercut Sam by selling it to Pakistan, what are these fools crying about now ? 

what about Obama, ridiculing the very notion of hacked/rigged elections when Alex Jones first called it out.






"of course the elections wont be rigged, what does that mean ?" haha

and now Putin is somehow rigging it ? 

people really ought to be paying attention to what is in those hacked e-mails, and not Assange or Putin. Assange used to be a darling of the left when outing the Bush admin, and now the same wikileaks are evil Russian agents ?

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## Solomon2

@RabzonKhan :

“Mr. Trump and the campaign denounces hate in any form”
link​


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## OldTwilight

so when this big noisy show will end !? 

did you see WWE !? 

USA election is just like it .... a noisy battle with pre defined outcome ...



Solomon2 said:


> @RabzonKhan :
> 
> “Mr. Trump and the campaign denounces hate in any form”
> link​



we are not voter , so your propaganda is meaningless for us .... 
for Iran , nothing will change and I'm sure USA will continue its policy till it fail , just like other EMPIRE ....


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## RabzonKhan

Good news, 28% Republicans (most probably, Cuban-Americans), so far, have voted for Hillary 








*28 Percent of Early-Voting Florida Republicans Choose Hillary Clinton*

By NANCY SMITH November 2, 2016

A TargetSmart and William & Mary poll of early and likely voters released this morning shows some 28 percent of Florida Republicans who have already voted flipped to cast their ballots for Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.

"It's really quite remarkable," TargetSmart CEO Tom Bonier enthused to an MSNBC audience Tuesday. "Clinton has an 8 point lead among early voters in this key battleground state, and it's been fueled almost entirely by crossover GOP voters." 

*"This isn't entirely a surprise," retired Miami political consultant C. Ralph Weintraub told Sunshine State News. "But it gives us some idea how many in the GOP in Florida feel disenfranchised by their own nominee. We'll see if the FBI email drama playing out causes Donald Trump to pick up steam as we get closer to voting day." *

Clinton holds a 48 to 40 percent lead over Trump, a more advantageous position for her than most other publicly available polling has suggested in the last week or so. As of the morning of Nov. 1, TargetSmart had tracked 3,695,359 people who already cast their votes in Florida. 

The numbers amount to more than a quarter of early Florida voters picking Clinton over GOP nominee Donald Trump. 

The TargetSmart/William & Mary poll was shared early with MSNBC.

Leveraging TargetSmart’s proprietary voter file -- something that is updated daily through the early voting window -- this poll reached a significant number of voters who have already participated. Among those early voters (who were asked which candidate they had voted for), Clinton outpaces Trump by a 17-point margin, 55 to 38 percent. 

Reflective of the trends that have been published in other public polls in recent days, the TargetSmart/William & Mary poll shows the contest in Florida is very competitive among those who have yet to cast their ballot. Among those non-early voters (who were asked which candidate they will vote for), Clinton attracts 42 percent of the vote and 43 percent back Donald Trump. 

The poll also shows the U.S. Senate race tilting decidedly in Marco Rubio’s direction. Democratic challenger Patrick Murphy trails Rubio 43 to 49 percent. Unlike Clinton, Murphy only breaks even with early voters, having garnered 48 percent of the vote to Rubio’s 47 percent. And, among non-early voters, Rubio holds a solid lead with 51 percent of the vote to Murphy’s 39 percent.* Read more*

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## Penguin

Desert Fox said:


> I think you suffer from dementia.
> 
> 
> You quoted me first moron. Stop quoting me. Obsessed much?


"you quote me first" .... mymy, how old are you again? 8? Keep calling me names, pal, please do.



T-72 said:


> lol, I think @Penguin is an oldschool European lefty idealist and is mostly mad at Trump for his mean sexist islamophobic tweets but is trying hard to not out his political/ideological bent here.


I can't deny I'm European. As for the rest, you have no idea. I have no reason to be mad at Trump: he's not a compatriot, these elections aren't in my country, so in that sense he's not my problem. 

Idealism emphasizes how human ideas—especially beliefs and values—shape society. Looking around here, the label idealist could apply to many. 

"Lefty" in the context of the discussion of US Presidential elections fails to take into account that to many Americans even our conservative liberal Dutch politicians to the right of the political spectrum in the Netherlands would be considered 'leftist'. So, a statement like that is pretty much meaningless.


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## Nicky G

Solomon2 said:


> Mississippi Church Torched And Vandalized With Pro-Trump Slogan
> 
> An ugly incident and due to its timing so close to the election itself, unlikely to determine before the election if it was a "dirty trick" by Clinton supporters or a genuine hate-crime by a Trumpkin.



It seems a safe bet the it was orchestrated to generate fear among blacks - as democrats have always done. 

*U.S. ELECTION: AFRICAN-AMERICAN VOTER TURNOUT 'LOW' IN KEY STATES
*
As they say* 'cui bono?'.*


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## T-72

Penguin said:


> "you quote me first" .... mymy, how old are you again? 8? Keep calling me names, pal, please do.
> 
> 
> I can't deny I'm European. As for the rest, you have no idea. I have no reason to be mad at Trump: he's not a compatriot, these elections aren't in my country, so in that sense he's not my problem.
> 
> Idealism emphasizes how human ideas—especially beliefs and values—shape society. Looking around here, the label idealist could apply to many.
> 
> "Lefty" in the context of the discussion of US Presidential elections fails to take into account that to many Americans even our conservative liberal Dutch politicians to the right of the political spectrum in the Netherlands would be considered 'leftist'. So, a statement like that is pretty much meaningless.


you are team crooked Hillary

Trump will win, big league. 

-----------------------------------------------




interesting conversation here:


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## Solomon2

T-72 said:


> you are team crooked Hillary
> 
> Trump will win, big league.


*How the heck can voters think Donald Trump is more honest than Hillary Clinton?*

By Chris Cillizza November 2 at 1:33 PM 

Donald Trump has said, repeatedly, that he opposed the war in Iraq from the start. He didn't.

He said he saw “thousands” of Muslims celebrating on New Jersey rooftops on the night of Sept. 11, 2001. Didn't happen.

He said that 58 percent of black youths are unemployed. Nope.

These are far from isolated incidents. In fact, 63 percent of the 91 Trump statements that the WaPo's Fact Checker has checked were given a Four Pinocchio rating — meaning they were/are totally false. (A typical candidate gets 4 Pinocchios somewhere between 10 and 20 percent of the time; 14.2 percent of Clinton's claims have been given Four Pinocchios.)

In short: There is no doubt that even in the quadrennial truth-stretching that happens in presidential campaigns, Trump has set records for fabrication.

And yet, this:





By an eight-point margin, according to the latest Washington Post-ABC News tracking poll, Trump is seen as more honest than Clinton.

What? How?

Good questions.

Start here: Perception matters hugely in politics. What people perceive to be the facts — whether or not those actually _are_ the facts — are very powerful when it comes to what they think of the presidential candidates.

In that perception game, here's how the two candidates are seen:

Trump: Straight talker. Loud, brash and often offensive.

Clinton: Guarded and careful, maybe to the point of paranoia.

That explains how Trump, a candidate with a documented record of lying about past statements and past events, can be seen as the more honest of the two candidates. People look at Trump and conclude: How can anyone who says as many controversial things as he does on a daily basis possibly be dishonest? Trump exudes unmanaged and unpolitical and it is, therefore, very tough — despite oodles of evidence — for most people to believe the guy simply doesn't tell the truth all that much.

Now, Clinton. She comes across — always — as cautious, wary of saying or doing things that might lose her a vote. That perception, coupled with the ongoing buzz surrounding Clinton's private email server, which has grown much louder after FBI Director James B. Comey's announcement of new emails being found last Friday, makes people more inclined to believe that the Democratic nominee is hiding something or not telling the whole truth.

The easy scapegoat here is, wait for it . . . the media. If the media would simply fact-check Donald Trump and call out his lies over and over again, then people would have a much more accurate sense of who is telling the truth and who isn't, the argument goes.

Except not really. Scroll back up in this post. Our Fact Checker operation has fact-checked 91 statements Trump has made in this campaign. They have fact-checked 49 statements by Clinton. The problem here isn't the media. The problem is that people stick very hard to their own preconceived notions — evidence to the contrary be damned. One place where the media can be blamed is in the rise of partisan media outlets that offer confirmation bias galore to people who see the world through a particular partisan lens.

As much as many people hate to hear this, Trump's edge over Clinton on the honesty question is a classic example of perception mattering more than reality in our modern politics. There's simply no other explanation that makes any sense.

Chris Cillizza writes “The Fix,” a politics blog for The Washington Post, and hosts the Ciquizza podcast

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## T-72

big league, you watch.


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## RabzonKhan

Three hundred and seventy economists, including eight Nobel Prize winners, co-signed a letter that asserts, "Trump is a dangerous, destructive choice for the country. He misinforms the electorate, degrades trust in public institutions with conspiracy theories, and promotes willful delusion over engagement with reality.” 













*370 Economists: ‘Do Not Vote For Donald Trump’
*
The statement was published by the Wall Street Journal, 11/01/2016

We, the undersigned economists, represent a broad variety of areas of expertise and are united in our opposition to Donald Trump. We recommend that voters choose a different candidate on the following grounds: 

 He degrades trust in vital public institutions that collect and disseminate information about the economy, such as the Bureau of Labor Statistics, by spreading disinformation about the integrity of their work. 

 *He has misled voters in states like Ohio and Michigan by asserting that the renegotiation of NAFTA or the imposition of tariffs on China would substantially increase employment in manufacturing.* In fact, manufacturing’s share of employment has been declining since the 1970s and is mostly related to automation, not trade. 

 He claims to champion former manufacturing workers, but has no plan to assist their transition to well-compensated service sector positions. Instead, he has diverted the policy discussion to options that ignore both the reality of technological progress and the benefits of international trade. 

 *He has misled the public by asserting that U.S. manufacturing has declined. The location and product composition of manufacturing has changed, but the level of output has more than doubled in the U.S. since the 1980s.* 

 He has falsely suggested that trade is zero-sum and that the “toughness” of negotiators primarily drives trade deficits. 

 He has misled the public with false statements about trade agreements eroding national income and wealth. Although the gains have not been equally distributed—and this is an important discussion in itself—both mean income and mean wealth have risen substantially in the U.S. since the 1980s. 

 He has lowered the seriousness of the national dialogue by suggesting that the elimination of the Environmental Protection Agency or the Department of Education would significantly reduce the fiscal deficit. A credible solution will require an increase in tax revenue and/or a reduction in spending on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, or Defense. 

 *He claims he will eliminate the fiscal deficit, but has proposed a plan that would decrease tax revenue by $2.6 to $5.9 trillion over the next decade according to the non-partisan Tax Foundation. *

 *He claims that he will reduce the trade deficit, but has proposed a reduction in public saving that is likely to increase it.* 

 *He uses immigration as a red herring to mislead voters about issues of economic importance, such as the stagnation of wages for households with low levels of education.* Several forces are responsible for this, but immigration appears to play only a modest role. Focusing the dialogue on this channel, rather than more substantive channels, such as automation, diverts the public debate to unproductive policy options. 

 *He has misled the electorate by asserting that the U.S. is one of the most heavily taxed countries.* While the U.S. has a high top statutory corporate tax rate, the average effective rate is much lower, and taxes on income and consumption are relatively low. Overall, the U.S. has one of the lowest ratios of tax revenue to GDP in the OECD. 

 His statements reveal a deep ignorance of economics and an inability to listen to credible experts. He repeats fake and misleading economic statistics, and pushes fallacies about the VAT and trade competitiveness. 

 *He promotes magical thinking and conspiracy theories over sober assessments of feasible economic policy options. Donald Trump is a dangerous, destructive choice for the country. He misinforms the electorate, degrades trust in public institutions with conspiracy theories, and promotes willful delusion over engagement with reality. If elected, he poses a unique danger to the functioning of democratic and economic institutions, and to the prosperity of the country. For these reasons, we strongly recommend that you do not vote for Donald Trump.* 

Signed, Jason Abaluck, Yale University Dilip J. Abreu, Princeton University Daron Acemoglu, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Amir Ali Ahmadi, Princeton University Mohammad Akbarpour, Stanford University Stefania Albanesi, University of Pittsburgh David Albouy, University of Illinois S. Nageeb Ali, Pennsylvania State University Hunt Allcott, New York University Douglas Almond, Columbia University Daniel Altman, New York University Donald Andrews, Yale University Isaiah Andrews, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Andres Aradillas-Lopez, Pennsylvania State University Kenneth Ardon, Salem State University Timothy Armstrong, Yale University Nick Arnosti, Columbia University Kenneth J. Arrow, Stanford University Gaurab Aryal, University of Virginia Arash Asadpour, New York University Susan Athey, Stanford University Andrew Atkeson, University of California, Los Angeles Maximilian Auffhammer, University of California, Berkeley Mariagiovanna Baccara, Washington University, St. Louis Jonathan B. Baker, American University Laurence Ball, Johns Hopkins University Abhijit Banerjee, Massachusetts Institute of Technology James Bang, St. Ambrose University Chris Barrett, Cornell University Jean-Noel Barrot, Massachusetts Institute of Technology John C. Beghin, Iowa State University Jess Benhabib, New York University Lanier Benkard, Stanford University Alan Benson, University of Minnesota Ronald Berenbeim, New York University Dirk Bergemann, Yale University David Berger, Northwestern University Daniel Beunza, London School of Economics Joydeep Bhattacharya, Iowa State University Alberto Bisin, New York University Emily Blank, Howard University Francine D. Blau, Cornell University Nicholas Bloom, Stanford University Simon Board, University of California, Los Angeles Luigi Bocola, Northwestern University Elizabeth Bogan, Princeton University Michele Boldrin, Washington University, St. Louis Patrick Bolton, Columbia University Carl Bonham, University of Hawaii, Manoa John P. Bonin, Wesleyan University Severin Borenstein, University of California, Berkeley Tilman Borgers, University of Michigan William C. Brainard, Yale University Timothy Bresnahan, Stanford University Moshe Buchinsky, University of California, Los Angeles Eric Budish, University of Chicago Daniel D. Butler, Auburn University Sebastien Buttet, City University of New York Ricardo Caballero, Massachusetts Institute of Technology John Y. Campbell, Harvard University Christopher D. Carroll, Johns Hopkins University Gabriel Carroll, Stanford University Michael R. Carter, University of California, Davis Elizabeth Caucutt, University of Western Ontario Sewin Chan, New York University Arun G. Chandrasekhar, Stanford University David A. Chapman, University of Virginia Kalyan Chatterjee, Pennsylvania State University Victor Chernozhukov, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Bhagwan Chowdhry, University of California, Los Angeles Lawrence Christiano, Northwestern University Michael Chwe, University of California, Los Angeles Tim Classen, Loyola University Chicago Gian Luca Clementi, New York University Victor Couture, University of California, Berkeley Ian Coxhead, University of Wisconsin Eric W. Crawford, Michigan State University Sean Crockett, City University of New York, Baruch College Barbara Crockett, City University of New York, Baruch College Samuel Culbert, University of California, Los Angeles J. David Cummins, Temple University David Cutler, Harvard University Jaksa Cvitanic, California Institute of Technology Chetan Dave, New York University Paul A. David, Stanford University Donald R. Davis, Columbia University Angus Deaton, Princeton University Joyee Deb, Yale University Rajeev Dehejia, New York University Stefano DellaVigna, University of California, Berkeley Tatyana Deryugina, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign Ravi Dhar, Yale University Marco Di Maggio, Harvard Business School Dimitrios Diamantaras, Temple University Peter Diamond, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Avinash K. Dixit, Princeton University Rebecca Dizon-Ross, University of Chicago Matthias Doepke, Northwestern University Esther Duflo, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Steven Durlauf, University of Wisconsin William Easterly, New York University Federico Echenique, California Institute of Technology Florian Ederer, Yale University Aaron S. Edlin, University of California, Berkeley Lena Edlund, Columbia University Sebastian Edwards, University of California, Los Angeles J.P. Eggers, New York University Sara Fisher Ellison, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Jeffrey Ely, Northwestern University Ryan Fang, University of Chicago Langdana Farrokh, Rutgers University Daniel Fetter, Wellesley College David Figlio, Northwestern University Diana Fletschner Frederick Floss, State University of New York at Buffalo Dana Foarta, Stanford University Meredith Fowlie, University of California, Berkeley Jeffrey Frankel, Harvard University Guillaume Frechette, New York University Victor R. Fuchs, Stanford University Thomas Fujiwara, Princeton University David W. Galenson, University of Chicago Sebastián Gallegos, Princeton University Michael Gallmeyer, University of Virginia David Gamarnik, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Bernhard Ganglmair, University of Texas at Dallas Pedro Gardete, Stanford University Robert Garlick, Duke University Peter Garrod, University of Hawaii, Manoa Claudine Gartenberg, New York University François Geerolf, University of California, Los Angeles Christophre Georges, Hamilton College George Georgiadis, Northwestern University Andra Ghent, University of Wisconsin, Madison Suman Ghosh, Florida Atlantic University Stefano Giglio, University of Chicago Chuan Goh, University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee Ben Golub, Harvard University Daniel Gottlieb, Washington University, St Louis Lawrence H. Goulder, Stanford University William Greene, New York University Dan Greenwald, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Matthew Grennan, University of Pennsylvania Gene Grossman, Princeton University Jean Grossman, Princeton University Michael Grubb, Boston College Jonathan Gruber, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Martin J. Gruber, New York University Isabel Guerrero, Harvard University Veronica Guerrieri, University of Chicago Adam Guren, Boston University Isa Hafalir, Carnegie Mellon University Nima Haghpanah, Pennsylvania State University Jens Hainmueller, Stanford University Marina Halac, Columbia University Jeffrey Hammer, Princeton University Ben Handel, University of California, Berkeley Oliver D. Hart, Harvard University Tarek Alexander Hassan, University of Chicago Andreas Hauskrecht, Indiana University Brent Hickman, University of Chicago Kate Ho, Columbia University Saul D. Hoffman, University of Delaware Stephen Holland, University of North Carolina, Greensboro Thomas J. Holmes, University of Minnesota Adam Honig, Amherst College Roozbeh Hosseini, University of Georgia Sabrina Howell, New York University Peter Howitt, Brown University Hilary Hoynes, University of California, Berkeley Yasheng Huang, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Isaiah Hull, Sveriges Riksbank Jennifer Hunt, Rutgers University Barry W. Ickes, Pennsylvania State University Nicolas Inostroza, Northwestern University Oleg Itskhoki, Princeton University Kelsey Jack, Tufts University Sanford M. Jacoby, University of California, Los Angeles Paul Jakus, Utah State University Gerald Jaynes, Yale University Ely Jeffrey, Northwestern University Geoffrey Jehle, Vassar College Elizabeth J. Jensen, Hamilton College Barbara A.P. Jones, Alabama A&M University Derek C. Jones, Hamilton College Joseph P. Joyce, Wellesley College John H. Kagel, Ohio State University Lisa B. Kahn, Yale University Navin Kartik, Columbia University Barbara G. Katz, New York University Michael Klein, Tufts University Christopher R. Knittel, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Yilmaz Kocer, University of Southern California Michal Kolesár, Princeton University Charles Kolstad, Stanford University Gerald F. Kominski, University of California, Los Angeles Matthew Kotchen, Yale University Kate Krause, University of New Mexico Mordecai Kurz, Stanford University David Laitin, Stanford University Fabian Lange, McGill University Joe Langsam, University of Maryland and Massachusetts Institute of Technology Michel Lawrence, Economic Policy Institute Jonathan Leonard, University of California, Berkeley Jacob Leshno, Columbia University Dan Levin, Ohio State University David Levin, University of California, Berkeley Shengwu Li, Harvard University Annie Liang, University of Pennsylvania Marc Lieberman, New York University Benjamin Linkow, University of Chicago Dennis B. Liotta, New York University Elliot Lipnowski, University of Chicago Zachary Liscow, Yale University Adriana Lleras-Muney, University of California, Los Angeles Benjamin Lockwood, University of Pennsylvania Guido Lorenzoni, Northwestern University Jay Lu, University of California, Los Angeles Sydney C. Ludvigson, New York University Catherine Maclean, Temple University Mihai Manea, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Eric Maskin, Harvard University Costas Meghir, Yale University Marc Melitz, Harvard University Konrad Menzel, New York University Robert C. Merton, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Andrew Metrick, Yale University Atif Mian, Princeton University Ronald Miller, Columbia University Alan Miller, University of Haifa Kurt Mitman, Stockholm University Benjamin Moll, Princeton University Dilip Mookherjee, Boston University Jonathan Morduch, New York University Alan Moreira, Yale University John Morgan, University of California, Berkeley Stephen E. Morris, Princeton University Taylor Muir, University of California, Los Angeles Aldo Musacchio, Brandeis University Roger Myerson, University of Chicago John Nachbar, Washington University, St. Louis Barry Nalebuff, Yale University Paulo Natenzon, Washington University, St. Louis Roz Naylor, Stanford University Jack Needleman, University of California, Los Angeles Christopher A. Neilson, Princeton University David Neumark, University of California, Irvine Marina Niessner, Yale University Roger G. Noll, Stanford University John O'Trakoun, Ford Motor Company Ezra Oberfield, Princeton University James Orlin, Massachusetts Institute of Technology David L. Ortega, Michigan State University Pietro Ortoleva, Columbia University Sharon Oster, Yale University Emily Oster, Brown University Ann Owen, Hamilton College Thomas Palfrey, California Institute of Technology Giri Parameswaran, Haverford College Sahar Parsa, Tufts University David Pearce, New York University Lynne Pepall, Tufts University Michael Peters, Yale University Monika Piazzesi, Stanford University Robert S. Pindyck, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Laetitia Placido, City University of New York Jeffrey Pliskin, Hamilton College Steve Polasky, University of Minnesota Eswar Prasad, Cornell University Anita Prasad, Temple University Thomas Pugel, New York University Melissa Pumphrey Richard E. Quandt, Princeton University Hazhir Rahmandad, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Gautam Rao, Harvard University David S. Rapson, University of California, Davis Debraj Ray, New York University Thomas Reardon, Michigan State University Julian Reif, University of Illinois David Reiley, Pandora Media, Inc., and University of California, Berkeley Philip Reny, University of Chicago John Riley, University of California, Los Angeles Mario Rizzo, New York University John Roberts, Stanford University Yana Rodgers, Rutgers University Paul M. Romer, New York University Donald B. Rosenfield, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Esteban Rossi-Hansberg, Princeton University Alvin E. Roth, Stanford University Dan Sacks, Indiana University Maryam Saeedi, Carnegie Mellon University Maher Said, New York University Sarada Sarada, University of Wisconsin, Madison Christine Sauer, University of New Mexico Anja Sautmann, Brown University Laura Schechter, University of Wisconsin, Madison Jose A. Scheinkman, Columbia University and Princeton University Frank Schilbach, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Andrew Schotter, New York University William Schulze, Cornell University Stuart O. Schweitzer, University of California, Los Angeles Julia Schwenkenberg, Rutgers University, Newark Paul Scott, New York University Fiona M. Scott Morton, Yale University Douglas Shaw, Economist Mark Shepard, Harvard University Itai Sher, University of California Gerald Shively, Purdue University Ali Shourideh, Carnegie Mellon university Nirvikar Singh, University of California, Santa Cruz Marciano Siniscalchi, Northwestern University Jack Stecher, Carnegie Mellon University John Sterman, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Scott Stern, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Steven Stern, Stony Brook University Adam Storeygard, Tufts University Sandip Sukhtankar, University of Virginia Scott Sumner, Bentley University Ashley Swanson, University of Pennsylvania Steve Tadelis, University of California, Berkeley Joshua Tasoff, Claremont Graduate University Dmitry Taubinsky, Dartmouth College J. Edward Taylor, University of California, Davis Richard Thaler, University of Chicago Mallika Thomas, Cornell University Felix Tintelnot, University of Chicago Oana Tocoian, Claremont McKenna College Dan Tortorice, Brandeis University Nikos Trichakis, Massachusetts Institute of Technology David Tschirley, Michigan State University Robert W. Turner, Colgate University Stephen Turnovsky, University of Washington Kosuke Uetake, Yale University Utku Unver, Boston College Robert Valdez, University of New Mexico John Van Reenen, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Richard Van Weelden, University of Chicago Kerry D. Vandell, University of California, Irvine Laura Veldkamp, New York University Venky Venkateswaran, New York University Gianluca Violante, New York University Tom Vogl, Princeton University Paul Wachtel, New York University Joel Waldfogel, University of Minnesota Don Waldman, Colgate University Xiao Yu Wang, Duke University Leonard Wantchekon, Princeton University Mark Watson, Princeton University Jonathan Weinstein, Washington University, St. Louis Birger Wernerfelt, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Ivan Werning, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Silvia Weyerbrock, Princeton University E. Glen Weyl, Yale University Roger White, Whittier College Andrea Wilson, Georgetown University Larry Wimmer, Brigham Young University Justin Wolfers, University of Michigan Catherine Wolfram, University of California, Berkeley Richard Woodward, Texas A&M University Jeffrey Wooldridge, Michigan State University Bruce Wydick, University of San Francisco Dean Yang, University of Michigan Muhamet Yildiz, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Pai-Ling Yin, University of Southern California Gary Yohe, Wesleyan University Thomas C. Youle, Dartmouth College Albert Zevelev, Baruch College Frederick Zimmerman, University of California, Los Angeles Seth Zimmerman, University of Chicago Eric Zivot, University of Washington NOTE: Institutions are listed for identification purposes and should not be viewed as signatories to the letter. *Link*


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## Nicky G

Solomon2 said:


> *How the heck can voters think Donald Trump is more honest than Hillary Clinton?*
> 
> By Chris Cillizza November 2 at 1:33 PM
> 
> Donald Trump has said, repeatedly, that he opposed the war in Iraq from the start. He didn't.
> 
> He said he saw “thousands” of Muslims celebrating on New Jersey rooftops on the night of Sept. 11, 2001. Didn't happen.
> 
> He said that 58 percent of black youths are unemployed. Nope.
> 
> These are far from isolated incidents. In fact, 63 percent of the 91 Trump statements that the WaPo's Fact Checker has checked were given a Four Pinocchio rating — meaning they were/are totally false. (A typical candidate gets 4 Pinocchios somewhere between 10 and 20 percent of the time; 14.2 percent of Clinton's claims have been given Four Pinocchios.)
> 
> In short: There is no doubt that even in the quadrennial truth-stretching that happens in presidential campaigns, Trump has set records for fabrication.
> 
> And yet, this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By an eight-point margin, according to the latest Washington Post-ABC News tracking poll, Trump is seen as more honest than Clinton.
> 
> What? How?
> 
> Good questions.
> 
> Start here: Perception matters hugely in politics. What people perceive to be the facts — whether or not those actually _are_ the facts — are very powerful when it comes to what they think of the presidential candidates.
> 
> In that perception game, here's how the two candidates are seen:
> 
> Trump: Straight talker. Loud, brash and often offensive.
> 
> Clinton: Guarded and careful, maybe to the point of paranoia.
> 
> That explains how Trump, a candidate with a documented record of lying about past statements and past events, can be seen as the more honest of the two candidates. People look at Trump and conclude: How can anyone who says as many controversial things as he does on a daily basis possibly be dishonest? Trump exudes unmanaged and unpolitical and it is, therefore, very tough — despite oodles of evidence — for most people to believe the guy simply doesn't tell the truth all that much.
> 
> Now, Clinton. She comes across — always — as cautious, wary of saying or doing things that might lose her a vote. That perception, coupled with the ongoing buzz surrounding Clinton's private email server, which has grown much louder after FBI Director James B. Comey's announcement of new emails being found last Friday, makes people more inclined to believe that the Democratic nominee is hiding something or not telling the whole truth.
> 
> The easy scapegoat here is, wait for it . . . the media. If the media would simply fact-check Donald Trump and call out his lies over and over again, then people would have a much more accurate sense of who is telling the truth and who isn't, the argument goes.
> 
> Except not really. Scroll back up in this post. Our Fact Checker operation has fact-checked 91 statements Trump has made in this campaign. They have fact-checked 49 statements by Clinton. The problem here isn't the media. The problem is that people stick very hard to their own preconceived notions — evidence to the contrary be damned. One place where the media can be blamed is in the rise of partisan media outlets that offer confirmation bias galore to people who see the world through a particular partisan lens.
> 
> As much as many people hate to hear this, Trump's edge over Clinton on the honesty question is a classic example of perception mattering more than reality in our modern politics. There's simply no other explanation that makes any sense.
> 
> Chris Cillizza writes “The Fix,” a politics blog for The Washington Post, and hosts the Ciquizza podcast



Oversimplification. Moreover, underestimation of the electorates' intellect.

Quality matters. Lying over sex life is not as damaging as jeopardizing national security or lying about cause of death of a US diplomat. Another critical distinction is the position the liar hold - a private citizen vs a public figure.


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## Nicky G

RabzonKhan said:


> Three hundred and seventy economists, including eight Nobel Prize winners, co-signed a letter that asserts, "Trump is a dangerous, destructive choice for the country. He misinforms the electorate, degrades trust in public institutions with conspiracy theories, and promotes willful delusion over engagement with reality.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 348662
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *370 Economists: ‘Do Not Vote For Donald Trump’
> *
> The statement was published by the Wall Street Journal, 11/01/2016
> 
> We, the undersigned economists, represent a broad variety of areas of expertise and are united in our opposition to Donald Trump. We recommend that voters choose a different candidate on the following grounds:
> 
>  He degrades trust in vital public institutions that collect and disseminate information about the economy, such as the Bureau of Labor Statistics, by spreading disinformation about the integrity of their work.
> 
>  *He has misled voters in states like Ohio and Michigan by asserting that the renegotiation of NAFTA or the imposition of tariffs on China would substantially increase employment in manufacturing.* In fact, manufacturing’s share of employment has been declining since the 1970s and is mostly related to automation, not trade.
> 
>  He claims to champion former manufacturing workers, but has no plan to assist their transition to well-compensated service sector positions. Instead, he has diverted the policy discussion to options that ignore both the reality of technological progress and the benefits of international trade.
> 
>  *He has misled the public by asserting that U.S. manufacturing has declined. The location and product composition of manufacturing has changed, but the level of output has more than doubled in the U.S. since the 1980s.*
> 
>  He has falsely suggested that trade is zero-sum and that the “toughness” of negotiators primarily drives trade deficits.
> 
>  He has misled the public with false statements about trade agreements eroding national income and wealth. Although the gains have not been equally distributed—and this is an important discussion in itself—both mean income and mean wealth have risen substantially in the U.S. since the 1980s.
> 
>  He has lowered the seriousness of the national dialogue by suggesting that the elimination of the Environmental Protection Agency or the Department of Education would significantly reduce the fiscal deficit. A credible solution will require an increase in tax revenue and/or a reduction in spending on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, or Defense.
> 
>  *He claims he will eliminate the fiscal deficit, but has proposed a plan that would decrease tax revenue by $2.6 to $5.9 trillion over the next decade according to the non-partisan Tax Foundation. *
> 
>  *He claims that he will reduce the trade deficit, but has proposed a reduction in public saving that is likely to increase it.*
> 
>  *He uses immigration as a red herring to mislead voters about issues of economic importance, such as the stagnation of wages for households with low levels of education.* Several forces are responsible for this, but immigration appears to play only a modest role. Focusing the dialogue on this channel, rather than more substantive channels, such as automation, diverts the public debate to unproductive policy options.
> 
>  *He has misled the electorate by asserting that the U.S. is one of the most heavily taxed countries.* While the U.S. has a high top statutory corporate tax rate, the average effective rate is much lower, and taxes on income and consumption are relatively low. Overall, the U.S. has one of the lowest ratios of tax revenue to GDP in the OECD.
> 
>  His statements reveal a deep ignorance of economics and an inability to listen to credible experts. He repeats fake and misleading economic statistics, and pushes fallacies about the VAT and trade competitiveness.
> 
>  *He promotes magical thinking and conspiracy theories over sober assessments of feasible economic policy options. Donald Trump is a dangerous, destructive choice for the country. He misinforms the electorate, degrades trust in public institutions with conspiracy theories, and promotes willful delusion over engagement with reality. If elected, he poses a unique danger to the functioning of democratic and economic institutions, and to the prosperity of the country. For these reasons, we strongly recommend that you do not vote for Donald Trump.*
> 
> Signed, Jason Abaluck, Yale University Dilip J. Abreu, Princeton University Daron Acemoglu, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Amir Ali Ahmadi, Princeton University Mohammad Akbarpour, Stanford University Stefania Albanesi, University of Pittsburgh David Albouy, University of Illinois S. Nageeb Ali, Pennsylvania State University Hunt Allcott, New York University Douglas Almond, Columbia University Daniel Altman, New York University Donald Andrews, Yale University Isaiah Andrews, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Andres Aradillas-Lopez, Pennsylvania State University Kenneth Ardon, Salem State University Timothy Armstrong, Yale University Nick Arnosti, Columbia University Kenneth J. Arrow, Stanford University Gaurab Aryal, University of Virginia Arash Asadpour, New York University Susan Athey, Stanford University Andrew Atkeson, University of California, Los Angeles Maximilian Auffhammer, University of California, Berkeley Mariagiovanna Baccara, Washington University, St. Louis Jonathan B. Baker, American University Laurence Ball, Johns Hopkins University Abhijit Banerjee, Massachusetts Institute of Technology James Bang, St. Ambrose University Chris Barrett, Cornell University Jean-Noel Barrot, Massachusetts Institute of Technology John C. Beghin, Iowa State University Jess Benhabib, New York University Lanier Benkard, Stanford University Alan Benson, University of Minnesota Ronald Berenbeim, New York University Dirk Bergemann, Yale University David Berger, Northwestern University Daniel Beunza, London School of Economics Joydeep Bhattacharya, Iowa State University Alberto Bisin, New York University Emily Blank, Howard University Francine D. Blau, Cornell University Nicholas Bloom, Stanford University Simon Board, University of California, Los Angeles Luigi Bocola, Northwestern University Elizabeth Bogan, Princeton University Michele Boldrin, Washington University, St. Louis Patrick Bolton, Columbia University Carl Bonham, University of Hawaii, Manoa John P. Bonin, Wesleyan University Severin Borenstein, University of California, Berkeley Tilman Borgers, University of Michigan William C. Brainard, Yale University Timothy Bresnahan, Stanford University Moshe Buchinsky, University of California, Los Angeles Eric Budish, University of Chicago Daniel D. Butler, Auburn University Sebastien Buttet, City University of New York Ricardo Caballero, Massachusetts Institute of Technology John Y. Campbell, Harvard University Christopher D. Carroll, Johns Hopkins University Gabriel Carroll, Stanford University Michael R. Carter, University of California, Davis Elizabeth Caucutt, University of Western Ontario Sewin Chan, New York University Arun G. Chandrasekhar, Stanford University David A. Chapman, University of Virginia Kalyan Chatterjee, Pennsylvania State University Victor Chernozhukov, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Bhagwan Chowdhry, University of California, Los Angeles Lawrence Christiano, Northwestern University Michael Chwe, University of California, Los Angeles Tim Classen, Loyola University Chicago Gian Luca Clementi, New York University Victor Couture, University of California, Berkeley Ian Coxhead, University of Wisconsin Eric W. Crawford, Michigan State University Sean Crockett, City University of New York, Baruch College Barbara Crockett, City University of New York, Baruch College Samuel Culbert, University of California, Los Angeles J. David Cummins, Temple University David Cutler, Harvard University Jaksa Cvitanic, California Institute of Technology Chetan Dave, New York University Paul A. David, Stanford University Donald R. Davis, Columbia University Angus Deaton, Princeton University Joyee Deb, Yale University Rajeev Dehejia, New York University Stefano DellaVigna, University of California, Berkeley Tatyana Deryugina, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign Ravi Dhar, Yale University Marco Di Maggio, Harvard Business School Dimitrios Diamantaras, Temple University Peter Diamond, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Avinash K. Dixit, Princeton University Rebecca Dizon-Ross, University of Chicago Matthias Doepke, Northwestern University Esther Duflo, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Steven Durlauf, University of Wisconsin William Easterly, New York University Federico Echenique, California Institute of Technology Florian Ederer, Yale University Aaron S. Edlin, University of California, Berkeley Lena Edlund, Columbia University Sebastian Edwards, University of California, Los Angeles J.P. Eggers, New York University Sara Fisher Ellison, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Jeffrey Ely, Northwestern University Ryan Fang, University of Chicago Langdana Farrokh, Rutgers University Daniel Fetter, Wellesley College David Figlio, Northwestern University Diana Fletschner Frederick Floss, State University of New York at Buffalo Dana Foarta, Stanford University Meredith Fowlie, University of California, Berkeley Jeffrey Frankel, Harvard University Guillaume Frechette, New York University Victor R. Fuchs, Stanford University Thomas Fujiwara, Princeton University David W. Galenson, University of Chicago Sebastián Gallegos, Princeton University Michael Gallmeyer, University of Virginia David Gamarnik, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Bernhard Ganglmair, University of Texas at Dallas Pedro Gardete, Stanford University Robert Garlick, Duke University Peter Garrod, University of Hawaii, Manoa Claudine Gartenberg, New York University François Geerolf, University of California, Los Angeles Christophre Georges, Hamilton College George Georgiadis, Northwestern University Andra Ghent, University of Wisconsin, Madison Suman Ghosh, Florida Atlantic University Stefano Giglio, University of Chicago Chuan Goh, University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee Ben Golub, Harvard University Daniel Gottlieb, Washington University, St Louis Lawrence H. Goulder, Stanford University William Greene, New York University Dan Greenwald, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Matthew Grennan, University of Pennsylvania Gene Grossman, Princeton University Jean Grossman, Princeton University Michael Grubb, Boston College Jonathan Gruber, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Martin J. Gruber, New York University Isabel Guerrero, Harvard University Veronica Guerrieri, University of Chicago Adam Guren, Boston University Isa Hafalir, Carnegie Mellon University Nima Haghpanah, Pennsylvania State University Jens Hainmueller, Stanford University Marina Halac, Columbia University Jeffrey Hammer, Princeton University Ben Handel, University of California, Berkeley Oliver D. Hart, Harvard University Tarek Alexander Hassan, University of Chicago Andreas Hauskrecht, Indiana University Brent Hickman, University of Chicago Kate Ho, Columbia University Saul D. Hoffman, University of Delaware Stephen Holland, University of North Carolina, Greensboro Thomas J. Holmes, University of Minnesota Adam Honig, Amherst College Roozbeh Hosseini, University of Georgia Sabrina Howell, New York University Peter Howitt, Brown University Hilary Hoynes, University of California, Berkeley Yasheng Huang, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Isaiah Hull, Sveriges Riksbank Jennifer Hunt, Rutgers University Barry W. Ickes, Pennsylvania State University Nicolas Inostroza, Northwestern University Oleg Itskhoki, Princeton University Kelsey Jack, Tufts University Sanford M. Jacoby, University of California, Los Angeles Paul Jakus, Utah State University Gerald Jaynes, Yale University Ely Jeffrey, Northwestern University Geoffrey Jehle, Vassar College Elizabeth J. Jensen, Hamilton College Barbara A.P. Jones, Alabama A&M University Derek C. Jones, Hamilton College Joseph P. Joyce, Wellesley College John H. Kagel, Ohio State University Lisa B. Kahn, Yale University Navin Kartik, Columbia University Barbara G. Katz, New York University Michael Klein, Tufts University Christopher R. Knittel, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Yilmaz Kocer, University of Southern California Michal Kolesár, Princeton University Charles Kolstad, Stanford University Gerald F. Kominski, University of California, Los Angeles Matthew Kotchen, Yale University Kate Krause, University of New Mexico Mordecai Kurz, Stanford University David Laitin, Stanford University Fabian Lange, McGill University Joe Langsam, University of Maryland and Massachusetts Institute of Technology Michel Lawrence, Economic Policy Institute Jonathan Leonard, University of California, Berkeley Jacob Leshno, Columbia University Dan Levin, Ohio State University David Levin, University of California, Berkeley Shengwu Li, Harvard University Annie Liang, University of Pennsylvania Marc Lieberman, New York University Benjamin Linkow, University of Chicago Dennis B. Liotta, New York University Elliot Lipnowski, University of Chicago Zachary Liscow, Yale University Adriana Lleras-Muney, University of California, Los Angeles Benjamin Lockwood, University of Pennsylvania Guido Lorenzoni, Northwestern University Jay Lu, University of California, Los Angeles Sydney C. Ludvigson, New York University Catherine Maclean, Temple University Mihai Manea, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Eric Maskin, Harvard University Costas Meghir, Yale University Marc Melitz, Harvard University Konrad Menzel, New York University Robert C. Merton, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Andrew Metrick, Yale University Atif Mian, Princeton University Ronald Miller, Columbia University Alan Miller, University of Haifa Kurt Mitman, Stockholm University Benjamin Moll, Princeton University Dilip Mookherjee, Boston University Jonathan Morduch, New York University Alan Moreira, Yale University John Morgan, University of California, Berkeley Stephen E. Morris, Princeton University Taylor Muir, University of California, Los Angeles Aldo Musacchio, Brandeis University Roger Myerson, University of Chicago John Nachbar, Washington University, St. Louis Barry Nalebuff, Yale University Paulo Natenzon, Washington University, St. Louis Roz Naylor, Stanford University Jack Needleman, University of California, Los Angeles Christopher A. Neilson, Princeton University David Neumark, University of California, Irvine Marina Niessner, Yale University Roger G. Noll, Stanford University John O'Trakoun, Ford Motor Company Ezra Oberfield, Princeton University James Orlin, Massachusetts Institute of Technology David L. Ortega, Michigan State University Pietro Ortoleva, Columbia University Sharon Oster, Yale University Emily Oster, Brown University Ann Owen, Hamilton College Thomas Palfrey, California Institute of Technology Giri Parameswaran, Haverford College Sahar Parsa, Tufts University David Pearce, New York University Lynne Pepall, Tufts University Michael Peters, Yale University Monika Piazzesi, Stanford University Robert S. Pindyck, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Laetitia Placido, City University of New York Jeffrey Pliskin, Hamilton College Steve Polasky, University of Minnesota Eswar Prasad, Cornell University Anita Prasad, Temple University Thomas Pugel, New York University Melissa Pumphrey Richard E. Quandt, Princeton University Hazhir Rahmandad, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Gautam Rao, Harvard University David S. Rapson, University of California, Davis Debraj Ray, New York University Thomas Reardon, Michigan State University Julian Reif, University of Illinois David Reiley, Pandora Media, Inc., and University of California, Berkeley Philip Reny, University of Chicago John Riley, University of California, Los Angeles Mario Rizzo, New York University John Roberts, Stanford University Yana Rodgers, Rutgers University Paul M. Romer, New York University Donald B. Rosenfield, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Esteban Rossi-Hansberg, Princeton University Alvin E. Roth, Stanford University Dan Sacks, Indiana University Maryam Saeedi, Carnegie Mellon University Maher Said, New York University Sarada Sarada, University of Wisconsin, Madison Christine Sauer, University of New Mexico Anja Sautmann, Brown University Laura Schechter, University of Wisconsin, Madison Jose A. Scheinkman, Columbia University and Princeton University Frank Schilbach, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Andrew Schotter, New York University William Schulze, Cornell University Stuart O. Schweitzer, University of California, Los Angeles Julia Schwenkenberg, Rutgers University, Newark Paul Scott, New York University Fiona M. Scott Morton, Yale University Douglas Shaw, Economist Mark Shepard, Harvard University Itai Sher, University of California Gerald Shively, Purdue University Ali Shourideh, Carnegie Mellon university Nirvikar Singh, University of California, Santa Cruz Marciano Siniscalchi, Northwestern University Jack Stecher, Carnegie Mellon University John Sterman, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Scott Stern, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Steven Stern, Stony Brook University Adam Storeygard, Tufts University Sandip Sukhtankar, University of Virginia Scott Sumner, Bentley University Ashley Swanson, University of Pennsylvania Steve Tadelis, University of California, Berkeley Joshua Tasoff, Claremont Graduate University Dmitry Taubinsky, Dartmouth College J. Edward Taylor, University of California, Davis Richard Thaler, University of Chicago Mallika Thomas, Cornell University Felix Tintelnot, University of Chicago Oana Tocoian, Claremont McKenna College Dan Tortorice, Brandeis University Nikos Trichakis, Massachusetts Institute of Technology David Tschirley, Michigan State University Robert W. Turner, Colgate University Stephen Turnovsky, University of Washington Kosuke Uetake, Yale University Utku Unver, Boston College Robert Valdez, University of New Mexico John Van Reenen, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Richard Van Weelden, University of Chicago Kerry D. Vandell, University of California, Irvine Laura Veldkamp, New York University Venky Venkateswaran, New York University Gianluca Violante, New York University Tom Vogl, Princeton University Paul Wachtel, New York University Joel Waldfogel, University of Minnesota Don Waldman, Colgate University Xiao Yu Wang, Duke University Leonard Wantchekon, Princeton University Mark Watson, Princeton University Jonathan Weinstein, Washington University, St. Louis Birger Wernerfelt, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Ivan Werning, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Silvia Weyerbrock, Princeton University E. Glen Weyl, Yale University Roger White, Whittier College Andrea Wilson, Georgetown University Larry Wimmer, Brigham Young University Justin Wolfers, University of Michigan Catherine Wolfram, University of California, Berkeley Richard Woodward, Texas A&M University Jeffrey Wooldridge, Michigan State University Bruce Wydick, University of San Francisco Dean Yang, University of Michigan Muhamet Yildiz, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Pai-Ling Yin, University of Southern California Gary Yohe, Wesleyan University Thomas C. Youle, Dartmouth College Albert Zevelev, Baruch College Frederick Zimmerman, University of California, Los Angeles Seth Zimmerman, University of Chicago Eric Zivot, University of Washington NOTE: Institutions are listed for identification purposes and should not be viewed as signatories to the letter. *Link*



These economists should be asked if the current president and those who worked for him, lied grossly while trying to pass their healthcare bill that is now resulting in a severe jump in premium.


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## Solomon2

RabzonKhan said:


> Three hundred and seventy economists, including eight Nobel Prize winners, co-signed a letter that asserts, "Trump is a dangerous, destructive choice for the country. He misinforms the electorate, degrades trust in public institutions with conspiracy theories, and promotes willful delusion over engagement with reality.”


I don't think Hillary refrains from "misinforming the electorate" when it suits her convenience. While Trump may prove a "dangerous, destructive choice" we know that Hillary actually has been and is - trust in public institutions like the State Dept., FBI, and Justice Dept. has been severely shaken. Conspiracy "theories" are one thing, but conspiracies snap into reality under email revelations of "unbiased" reporters sharing "surprise" questions with Clinton before events. As for "delusion over reality" Hillary was the biggest pusher of the meme that a barely-noted anti-Muslim "movie" was the cause of the Benghazi debacle, rather than the failings of her own department.


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## RabzonKhan

*Libertarian Party VP nominee Bill Weld basically just endorsed Hillary Clinton*

By Aaron Blake November 2, 2016

He didn't say it directly, but the Libertarian Party's vice presidential nominee, former Massachusetts governor Bill Weld, for all intents and purposes endorsed Hillary Clinton on Tuesday night.

In an interview with MSNBC's Rachel Maddow, Weld, a former Republican, said he was "vouching" for Clinton and praised her effusively while arguing that the choice between the two major candidates is clear -- all while not really vouching for the top of his own ticket, former New Mexico governor Gary Johnson.

Weld has been hinting in this direction for weeks, saying nice things about Clinton, warning about Trump and suggesting people choosing between the two should pick Clinton. But at this juncture in the race, the Libertarian Party is struggling to get the 5 percent of the vote that would qualify it for federal matching funds and easier ballot access.

The whole thing is worth a gander. Below is the full transcript, with the most interesting parts highlighted and annotated.

MADDOW: I’m very pleased today that joining us live tonight in studio for the interview is Bill Weld, the Libertarian candidate for vice president this year. Governor Weld thank you so much for being here.

WELD: Thank you so much. It’s great to be here. Thank you.

MADDOW: I posited just a moment ago before the commercial break that what you and Gary Johnson are really aiming at this year is that 5 percent threshold, to try to get some federal matching funds, to try to get some ballot access, and all those other things. Basically so the Libertarians might be viable in the future. Is that fair?

WELD: I think you can — I think in the real world that’s probably correct. That would give federal matching funds. It would mean no more ballot access woes. You know we thought for the longest time we might have a chance to run the table because we’re such nice guys and centrist party, etcetera, but not getting into the debates really sort of foreclosed that option. So now it’s really the 5 percent, you’re right.

MADDOW: And when you—in the real world when you think about pursing that 5 percent option, for people who are in states where it’s really close, for people who are in North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Florida, Ohio, these states where the presidential race really might be decided among the two candidates who actually have a shot at it. Do you think that people in those states should vote for you?

WELD: Well, we are making our case that we’re fiscally responsible and socially inclusive and welcoming. And we think we’ve got on the merits the best ticket of the three parties, if you will, and so, you know, we’d like to get there. Having said that, as I think you’re aware, I see a big difference between the Republican candidate and the Democratic candidate. And I’ve been at some pains to say that I fear for the country if Mr. Trump should be elected. I think it’s a candidacy without any parallel that I can recall. It’s content-free and very much given to stirring up ambient resentment and even hatred. And I think it would be a threat to the conduct of our foreign policy and our position in the world at large.

MADDOW: When you say fear for the country do you mean — is that hyperbole or do you mean it literally? Do you think it would actually be a threat to us as a country if elected?

WELD: Well I think it would be a threat to our polity as Tom Brokaw has been saying over the past couple of days. You know we’re getting to the point where we’re impinging on democratic institutions in this country and I think, you know, it takes a certain-- not a suspension of disbelief -- but willingness to go along with other people to get the ship of state going forward. I’m not sure that happens in a Trump presidency, frankly.

*MADDOW: You’ve described him as unstable. Did you mean that sort of psychologically or—what’s the basis of that?*

*WELD: Oh yeah. No I mean that psychologically. I think he showed in the debates when he encounters criticism or challenge he behaves the way a bully would. He just doesn’t take it well. He doesn’t deal well with criticism and blame and I don’t think he could competently manage the office of the presidency given the criticism and challenge that you face every single day as the President of the United States. He just would not be in his element and I think he would wobble off course and I think the country just can’t have that.*

MADDOW: Given that, I'm gonna circle back to the question I asked before. Somebody listening to you right now in N.C. -- knowing that N.C. may decide who the next president of the U.S. is -- hearing you, in terms of what you think of Donald Trump and that you fear for the country if he is elected. Why wouldn't it be -- if those are the stakes, and that person is deciding well, I'm gonna vote against Donald Trump and you concede basically that you're not gonna win -- that you and Gary Johnson are not gonna win the presidency. Why would that person not weigh threat to the country, fear for the fate of the country against hope the libertarian party gets its five percent this year. Why would a person pick the Libertarian vote in that case if the stakes are that high between voting for Clinton and Trump?

*WELD:* *Well, the person could very well decide not to do that, and for someone deciding not to do that, I have a lot to say about Mrs. Clinton that has not been said by others recently and that I think needs to be said. I mean I've known her for 40 years. I worked with her, I know her well professionally. I know her well personally. I know her to be a person of high moral character. A reliable person and an honest person, however Mr. Trump may rant and rave to the contrary. So I'm happy to say that. People can make their own choices.* *Read more*







Amazing, 102-year-young, and still has great common sense! 


*102-Year-Old Born Before Women’s Suffrage Casts Ballot For Clinton*

*“It was the greatest thrill of my life,” Geraldine “Jerry” Emmett said.*

A 102-year-old woman who was born before women could vote cast an early ballot Tuesday for who she hopes will be the first female president.

“It was the greatest thrill of my life; I just wish my mother and dad could see all of this,” Geraldine “Jerry” Emmett told Tucson News Now after submitting her vote for Hillary Clinton.

The Prescott, Arizona woman arrived at the polls wearing a white and blue suit and positively beaming from ear-to-ear, for good reason. *Link*


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## Desert Fox

@T-72 @Nilgiri @C130


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_57617765e4b09c926cfdc0a8


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## Akasa

Solomon2 said:


> ... a classic example of perception mattering more than reality in our modern politics...



Quite ironic for camp Clinton to be saying this of anyone, isn't it?


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## Penguin

T-72 said:


> you are team crooked Hillary
> 
> Trump will win, big league.


Says you. In reality, as always, I was, am and will remain always team ME.



Nicky G said:


> These economists should be asked if the current president and those who worked for him, lied grossly while trying to pass their healthcare bill that is now resulting in a severe jump in premium.


So, how's healthcare coverage in India these days?



Desert Fox said:


> @T-72 @Nilgiri @C130[/USER



[IMG]http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/15/14536/desert-fox-632x389.jpg[/IMG]


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## KAL-EL

cloud4000 said:


> I live in Massachusetts and it allows early voting. So I cast my vote today. I must tell you that living in Massachusetts is like living in China -- it's a one-party state. Most of the people running for the various offices, national and local, are not only all Democrats but are running unopposed.
> 
> So I just voted for president, the only one that matters. And I voted for Johnson/Weld -- the only sane choice in a race filled with sociopaths and nutcases.



Wish there was early voting here in Pennsylvania. Still heavily leaning towards writing in a candidate and would quite frankly just like to get it over with.

thread looking a little like it's turning into Monday Night Raw

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## T-72

Penguin said:


> So, how's healthcare coverage in India these days?


govt run is a disaster, private insurers and hospitals milk you good for proper care, and are you seriously trying to compare India to the US ?



Desert Fox said:


> @T-72 @Nilgiri @C130
> 
> 
> http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_57617765e4b09c926cfdc0a8
> 
> View attachment 348679
> 
> 
> View attachment 348680
> 
> 
> View attachment 348681


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## T-72

--------------------------------------------------------






*Donald Trump MASSIVE Rally in Orlando, Florida (11/2/2016) 






*
random news bits:*
*
Senior FBI officials were told of new emails in early October but wanted more information before renewing Clinton probe

Likely Indictment..

Independents leaning toward Trump in polls after FBI furor erupts 

Nephew: George W. Bush may vote for Clinton
*




*

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## Desert Fox

Penguin said:


> "you quote me first" .... mymy, how old are you again? 8? Keep calling me names, pal, please do.


I'm older than you. That's for certain.



T-72 said:


> Nephew: George W. Bush may vote for Clinton


So George Bush, the NeoCon who bombed Iraq is voting for Hillary, the NeoCon who bombed Syria. No surprise there.


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## T-72

RabzonKhan said:


> woman arrived at the polls wearing a white and blue suit and positively beaming from ear-to-ear, for good reason. *Link*


*94-year old stumps for Trump on foot*






At age 94, you could say Arlene Borges is one of Donald Trump's biggest fans. 
"I like him, I liked him before he was even thinking about being a president," Borges said. 


And thanks to a morning routine that has become a ritual, you could also call her a super fan. 

Every day, when most people are going to work, Arlene is going the extra mile for Donald Trump.



the older demographic is going to turn out for Trump, remember they were the biggest component of the BREXIT vote. 



Desert Fox said:


> So George Bush, the NeoCon who bombed Iraq is voting for Hillary, the NeoCon who bombed Syria. No surprise there.


Paul Wolfowitz and other prominent Bushite neocons are also with her, she is the war and disaster candidate here.

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## maximuswarrior

*Obama warns fate of world at stake*






http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37854525



Penguin said:


> Again, nobody blamed Russia for Trump, But that doesn't mean there isn't a relation between the two.
> 
> If you were 18 or older in 1980 and voted for Reagan, you are now 54 or older.
> 
> So, who supports Trump?
> 
> See for yourself:
> http://www.usatoday.com/pages/interactives/trump-nation/#/?_k=061lw7
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/who-s-re...traits-beyond-the-polls-061622809.html?ref=gs
> 
> Back in December, a _Washington Post_ analysis found that Trump's support skewed male, white, and poor. The male-female gap was 19 percentage points (47 percent support among men vs. 28 percent among women). He won a whopping 50 percent of voters making less than $50,000, 18 percentage points ahead of his support with those who earned more than that amount.
> The single best predictor of Trump support in the GOP primary is the absence of a college degree. Diplomas are what Ron Brownstein calls the “new Republican fault line.” Although white men without a college education haven’t suffered the same historical discrimination as blacks or women, their suffering is not imagined. The Hamilton Project has found that the full-time, full-year employment rate of men without a bachelor's degree fell from 76 percent in 1990 to 68 percent in 2013. While real wages have grown for men and women with a four-year degree or better in the last 25 years, they've fallen meaningfully for non-college men. Non-college men have been trampled by globalization, the dissolution of manufacturing employment, and other factors, for the last few decades.
> Voters who agreed with the statement “people like me don't have any say about what the government does” were 86.5 percent more likely to prefer Trump. This feeling of powerlessness and voicelessness was a much better predictor of Trump support than age, race, college attainment, income, attitudes towards Muslims, illegal immigrants, or Hispanic identity.
> The classic definition of authoritarianism implies a tradeoff—more security for less liberty—but MacWilliams says it’s also about identifying threatening outsiders and granting individuals special powers to pursue aggressive policies to destroy them.The best predictor of Trump support isn't income, education, or age, he says. In South Carolina, it was “authoritarianism … [and] a personal fear of terrorism”
> Find a map of the United States and draw a thick red mark just east of the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers. That's Trump Country. Trump’s support is strongest from the Gulf Coast, through the Appalachian Mountains, to New York, among marginally attached Republicans (possibly former Democrats). It is a familiar map for some demographers, since it’s similar to a heat map of Google searches for  racial slurs and jokes.
> http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/who-are-donald-trumps-supporters-really/471714/
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, so it is the US that is responsible for fear in Russia in former Warsaw Pact countries? It has no relation with the post-worldwar2 period of Russian dominance - occupation - of those countries? And Russia is not doing anything to bring about a Cold War itself? See e.g. military exercises, irresponsible military behaviour are sea and in the air? Placing moore troops and potentially nuclear short range ballistic missiles smack in the heart of Europe? If the US and Russia aren't best of friends, that is the fault of the US, and never Russia itself?
> 
> 
> There is a very big difference between having and voicing a preference for one candidate or another and actively engaging in information warfare. But you know this. Apparently you think it is ok for Russia to hacks DNC computers.
> And sure, the US never went anywhere with a UN mandate, right?. And the UN ok, that means your country's ok too!



I've never denied that Russia and Trump don't have a relation. On the contrary, I'm saying exactly the same thing as you are. Except that I don't find it strange that Russia is picking its own guy. The United States has a vast record of interference in the elections and regime changes of other nations. The Russians are using jus computers and other low-tech means to create an impact whilst the Americans are renowned for using lethal force, blackmail and occupation as their preferred methods. You be the judge.

Well, that is sour grapes for the white male who didn't earn a degree or has a salary which doesn't satisfy him. It is also sour grapes when the white male blames others for terrorism etc. when his own government has groomed Jihadi elements during the Cold War against Russia. Blaming Obama, Russia, Muslims and the Mexicans won't resolve their educational and salary woes. I don't like to single out one ethnic group, but for the sake of this discussion I will have to use the term "white male". Unfortunately, this has been the problem of the angry and dissatisfied white male all along. It has always been a nasty blame game towards others and playing the victim card. Instead of blaming others, this specific groups needs to have a hard look at itself. To make matters worse, voting for Trump won't resolve their problems one bit. Trump has no political record and even if he had he wouldn't be able to address their personal issues. Besides, he says a lot of ridiculous stuff, but he can't deliver on half of his promises and you know this too. He backtracks every minute. I don't know whether the "aggrieved" white male should trust Trump because if his promises aren't fulfilled the disappointment is going to be immense.

You keep putting words in my mouth regarding Russia. I've never defended Russian actions pre and post WWII etc. I've already explained that Russia has its fair share of problems like any other country. They certainly made mistakes and are still committing errors. No country is perfect. The irony is that you keep singling out Russia as the primary evil when the country that you are defending is guilty of similar crimes and worse. We cannot dispute that Russia has always been considered a threat and an enemy by the US because it challenges their hegemonic designs. There is no other way of putting this. We can see a similar pattern for China now. The same rhetoric all over again. The truth is that Americans are insecure and are always on the outlook for enemies to unify. Their track record proves this. For the record, I'm not anti-American. I'm just very critical of the double standards and the hypocritical ways of this country.

Again, you accuse Russia of information warfare, but hasn't the US done worse by forcefully overthrowing regimes and waging wars on false pretenses? Doesn't the US interfere in the affairs of other nations? Don't you know that the US hacks Russian and other systems in the world? What about Edward Snowden's revelations? Should we just give the US a free pass? Russia might be guilty, but let's not kid ourselves. The Americans are the undisputed masters of duplicity.

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## -SINAN-

KAL-EL said:


> Wish there was early voting here in Pennsylvania.


You live in Pennsylvania ? 

Nowadays the word "Pennsylvania" irritates Turks beyond your imagination......

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## Nilgiri



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## XenoEnsi-14

Sinan said:


> Nowadays the word "Pennsylvania" irritates Turks beyond your imagination......


In that case Turkey is now New Pennsylvania.

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## -SINAN-

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> In that case Turkey is now New Pennsylvania.


  

But seriously bro....because of these Gülenists whom resides in Pennsylvania, people going nuts.....we would conquer Pennsylvania, if we could.

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## XenoEnsi-14

Sinan said:


> But seriously bro....because of these Gülenists whom resides in Pennsylvania, people going nuts.....we would conquer Pennsylvania, if we could.


That would only push people into the mountains, and mountains plus moonshine plus white people = Nightmare.

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## KAL-EL

Sinan said:


> You live in Pennsylvania ?
> 
> Nowadays the word "Pennsylvania" irritates Turks beyond your imagination......



Yep! Proud Pennsylvanian!

That 'individual' resides about an hour and a half from me. Don't think he's ever been down to my part of PA though.

^^^Assuming that's why you said the word Pennsylvania irritates Turks. 98% of the population here doesn't even know this individual exists and are innocent citizens.
Have fun trying to conquer though


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## Penguin

T-72 said:


> govt run is a disaster, private insurers and hospitals milk you good for proper care, and are you seriously trying to compare India to the US ?


No, I'm just wondering how come your concern with and criticism of US healthcare, in view of your flags. Healthcare coverage in my country no doubt is better than in the US.



Desert Fox said:


> I'm older than you. That's for certain.


Sure. That's probably also why I've been at this forum for more than a decade, which is easily half decade longer than you have.


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## T-72

Penguin said:


> No, I'm just wondering how come your concern with and criticism of US healthcare, in view of your flags. Healthcare coverage in my country no doubt is better than in the US.


none, not an issue that concerns me. 

ok, my bad, just checked, I missed that you were not quoting me in your post earlier.

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## -SINAN-

KAL-EL said:


> ^^^Assuming that's why you said the word Pennsylvania irritates Turks. 98% of the population here doesn't even know this individual exists and are innocent citizens.



Yeap, you assumed right. 

Erdoğan often talks about that individual as "The one resides's in Pennsylvania"......so everybody is like..... Pennsylvania = Coup 

Ofcourse population has no fault, and it's not about American people. 



KAL-EL said:


> Have fun trying to conquer though


Well, i think we would try...if
1-) You had not been the world's superpower.
2-) You didn't posses nuclear weapons.
3-) Your army had equal firepower to Greece's army.

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## Penguin

maximuswarrior said:


> The United States has a vast record of interference in the elections and regime changes of other nations. The Russians are using jus computers and other low-tech means to create an impact whilst the Americans are renowned for using lethal force, blackmail and occupation as their preferred methods.


The Russians have such a history too. But is there a history of US government actively interfering with the Russian process?



maximuswarrior said:


> Well, that is sour grapes for the white male who didn't earn a degree or has a salary which doesn't satisfy him. It is also sour grapes when the white male blames others for terrorism etc. when his own government has groomed Jihadi elements during the Cold War against Russia. Blaming Obama, Russia, Muslims and the Mexicans won't resolve their educational and salary woes. I don't like to single out one ethnic group, but for the sake of this discussion I will have to use the term "white male". Unfortunately, this has been the problem of the angry and dissatisfied white male all along. It has always been a nasty blame game towards others and playing the victim card. Instead of blaming others, this specific groups needs to have a hard look at itself. To make matters worse, voting for Trump won't resolve their problems one bit. Trump has no political record and even if he had he wouldn't be able to address their personal issues. Besides, he says a lot of ridiculous stuff, but he can't deliver on half of his promises and you know this too. He backtracks every minute. I don't know whether the "aggrieved" white male should trust Trump because if his promises aren't fulfilled the disappointment is going to be immense.


Agree. Mind you, we are talking about the US electorate here, not the world population of white males. 



maximuswarrior said:


> You keep putting words in my mouth regarding Russia. I've never defended Russian actions pre and post WWII etc. I've already explained that Russia has its fair share of problems like any other country. They certainly made mistakes and are still committing errors. No country is perfect. The irony is that you keep singling out Russia as the primary evil when the country that you are defending is guilty of similar crimes and worse. We cannot dispute that Russia has always been considered a threat and an enemy by the US because it challenges their hegemonic designs. There is no other way of putting this. We can see a similar pattern for China now. The same rhetoric all over again. The truth is that Americans are insecure and are always on the outlook for enemies to unify. Their track record proves this. For the record, I'm not anti-American. I'm just very critical of the double standards and the hypocritical ways of this country.


You mistake my comments for 'defending America'. As a European, how can one not be concerned with military sabre rattling from the East? E.g. http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-norway-nuclear-targets-2016-11 And how has Norway 'offended' Russia exactly? Norway agreed to host 330 U.S. Marines for a rotational training deployment. Mind you, during the 1980’s for example, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s commitment to the defense of northern Europe resulted in annual winter training exercise in Norway and the USMC routinely deployed to Norway with a regimental headquarters and an infantry battalion along with supporting aviation and logistics units. 



maximuswarrior said:


> Again, you accuse Russia of information warfare, but hasn't the US done worse by forcefully overthrowing regimes and waging wars on false pretenses? Doesn't the US interfere in the affairs of other nations? Don't you know that the US hacks Russian and other systems in the world? What about Edward Snowden's revelations? Should we just give the US a free pass? Russia might be guilty, but let's not kid ourselves. The Americans are the undisputed masters of duplicity.


I don't accuse Russia of that, the US Government does. That is a big difference, it is not simply my opion.
I don't have to like or defend US foreign policy, just like I don't have to like or defend Russia's foreign policy.
Where is the evidence of (comparable) US information warfare activities directed specifically against the Russian electoral processes?
As a citizen of a small (there are cities with a larger population than the Netherlands) Western European nation, lucky enough to have escaped replacement of Nazi-German occupation with Soviet occupation during/after WW2 (the country was mostly liberated by Canadian and Polish troops), I am acutely aware of the limited influence that my own country has and can have on these two giant countries, and the humongous concequences we stand to suffer from their actions. So I am concerned either way.

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## T-72

Penguin said:


> I don't accuse Russia of that, the US Government does. That is a big difference, it is not simply my opion.
> I don't have to like or defend US foreign policy, just like I don't have to like or defend Russia's foreign policy.
> Where is the evidence of (comparable) US information warfare activities directed specifically against the Russian electoral processes?
> 
> As a citizen of a small (there are cities with a larger population than the Netherlands) Western European nation, lucky enough to have escaped replacement of Nazi-German occupation with Soviet occupation during/after WW2 (the country was mostly liberated by Canadian and Polish troops), I am acutely aware of the limited influence that my own country has and can have on these two giant countries, and the humongous concequences we stand to suffer from their actions. So I am concerned either way.


Trump is still better equipped to deal with the Russian threat than that crazy woman.


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## T-Rex

T-72 said:


> Trump is still better equipped to deal with the Russian threat than that crazy woman.


*
There's only one reason why the indians worship modi as a bhagwan.*


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## Solomon2

SinoSoldier said:


> Quite ironic for camp Clinton to be saying this of anyone, isn't it?


It's hard for me to tell if groupthink blinds them or if they actually realize what they're doing.



T-72 said:


> Trump is still better equipped to deal with the Russian threat than that crazy woman.


The record suggests Hillary doesn't see the Russians as a "threat" but as a source of Clinton Foundation revenue and an occasionally useful political foil. How Trump sees the Russians is anybody's guess...maybe depends on his mood...


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## Desert Fox

*Democrats, Media, NeverTrump Have National Panic Attack*​






*Stunned by FBI bombshell, pundits and Clinton allies whip up new 'Red Scare'*
by Jim Stinson | _Updated_ 02 Nov 2016 at 10:24 AM

*There have been few political meltdowns such as the ones being seen in real time now, thanks to Democrat Hillary Clinton’s woes with the FBI.*

There’s James Carville turning into an exploding pumpkin on CNN on Monday. There’s Harry Reid threatening the FBI director with a violation of the 1939 Hatch Act.

*And there’s the new Red Scare — the suggestion that Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump is a Manchurian candidate, a tool of the Russian KGB. *That silly charge is back and bigger than ever. In their frenzy to tar Trump as somehow tied to Russian President Vladimir Putin, media big shots are not even watching their own reports.

On Tuesday morning, CBS News morning host Gayle King asked why the FBI wasn’t looking at Trump’s alleged ties to Russia. *Just minutes earlier, CBS News reporter Norah O’Donnell cited a New York Times article stating there were no Trump ties to Russia, per the FBI.*

Slate also got burned by, of all outlets, The Times. *The left-wing digital outlet reported, breathlessly, that Trump’s servers had been communicating with a Russian bank. Then The Times story came out debunking the claim as nonsense.*

And there's Geraldo Rivera, the old Clinton hatchet man from the 1990s. The commentator went ballistic on Monday and Tuesday when he suggested Clinton's email scandal was dumb and harmless. He called the Clinton email issue a "GOP plot."

*Reid sent the first command to attack President Obama's FBI director on Sunday. The Democratic Senate minority leader accused FBI Director James Comey of violating the 1939 Hatch Act, a law against government officials using their position or government resources for campaign purposes, for daring to mention a Democratic candidate within two weeks of an election.*

Longtime Democratic guru James Carville then freaked out on Monday.

In an already infamous meltdown on MSNBC, Carville, a longtime operative for the Clinton family, melted down in an extended rant. He even blamed the anchor for siding with the Republicans and the KGB.

"This is in effect an attempt to hijack an election," Carville said. "It's unprecedented … the House Republicans and the KGB are trying to influence our democracy."

Carville repeatedly asserted House Republicans and Russian intelligence were manipulating a pliant FBI.

*The meltdowns are a good sign that Trump is closing in on the target. Democrats know voters generally do not like to vote for candidates under current criminal investigation.*

On Friday, Comey said he was looking anew at Clinton's server, which she used from 2009 to 2013 while secretary of state. The FBI had declined to press charges on July 5, when Comey announced Clinton's handling of classified material did not constitute "gross negligence."

But when new emails were discovered in October on a laptop owned by Huma Abedin, longtime Clinton aide, the FBI changed its tune. Reportedly, there are 650,000 emails on a laptop owned by Abedin and her estranged husband, ex-Congressman Anthony Weiner.

Weiner is under investigation for repeatedly engaging in online sex talk with a minor.

And in one fell swoop, the Clinton campaign was hobbled. Here was a scandal that had sex and misbehavior mixed in, giving it long-term legs in the media.

But unlike Trump's trash talk caught on a hot mic, the FBI is involved in this one. It also resurrects the email issue, which the Clinton campaign has been dealing with since it was first broken by The New York Times on March 2, 2015.

Democrats have since been rushing to the media and sites such as fivethirtyeight.com, the equivalent of Valium for liberals, where they received assurances that Clinton is ahead in the polling averages and projections.

The New York Times chipped in to do its part. The newspaper resurrected the issue of Trump's income taxes with a story that Trump may have used a "legally dubious" tax deduction in the 1990s. Lower in the story, The Times admits the deduction was "outlawed" after Trump and other businessmen used it — which means it wasn't that dubious.

And, again, The Times admitted it didn't have a copy of Trump's income taxes. For any year. The anxiety is not just confined to media outlets and Democrats.

*The "NeverTrump" faction of the GOP is also in full panic mode as the Republican nominee increasingly looks likely to win or lose in a tight contest — leaving them out in the wind.*

The Weekly Standard, a chief proponent of NeverTrump elitism, is now in the third stage of grief: bargaining. It tweeted out a link to a story calling on Trump to pledge to serve one term.

And there is Ohio Gov. John Kasich who made a point of telling the media that he officially broke his pledge to support his party's presidential nominee. He instead wrote in Arizona Sen. John McCain on his ballot. Top Kasich aide John Weaver was a staffer on McCain's failed 2000 bid.

CNN then reported the Kasich story — and used three reporters to do so.

The election is in one week, so the panic is unlikely to subside. Expect the next stage to begin soon: the throwing of the kitchen sink.

@T-72 @Nilgiri @C130 @boomslang

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## cloud4000

T-72 said:


> Trump is still better equipped to deal with the Russian threat than that crazy woman.



Please explain how given the allegations that Trump is a Russian stooge?

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## T-72

Solomon2 said:


> The record suggests Hillary doesn't see the Russians as a "threat" but as a source of Clinton Foundation revenue and an occasionally useful political foil. How Trump sees the Russians is anybody's guess...maybe depends on his mood...





cloud4000 said:


> Please explain how given the allegations that Trump is a Russian stooge?




A nationalist or a traitor, they should make their minds up already, because it cant be both.

To anyone watching, it's clear as day, Trump is a strongman nationalist who wont let the US be bullied around by hostile actors. Him proposing a detente with Russia is common sense, not appeasement and not coming from a place of weakness. Dealmaker Trump setting the stage for negotiations by expressing a willingness to be flexible and work together, he's put a big idea out there, let's see how they respond..

read his book

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## Solomon2




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## cloud4000

T-72 said:


> A nationalist or a traitor, they should make their minds up already, because it cant be both.
> 
> To anyone watching, it's clear as day, Trump is a strongman nationalist who wont let the US be bullied around by hostile actors. Him proposing a detente with Russia is common sense, not appeasement and not coming from a place of weakness. Dealmaker Trump setting the stage for negotiations by expressing a willingness to be flexible and work together, he's put a big idea out there, let's see how they respond..
> 
> read his book


I have read Trump's book way back in the 1980s when I was in high school. I'm sorry, but negotiating a real estate deeal is vastly different excercise than negotiation with other countries. The stakes are so much higher and not always about dollars and cents. 

Even if we give Trump the advantage of doubt, what kind of deal will he be seeking from Russia and Putin? What interests will Trump sacrifice to reach such a deal? And why is so Putin so enamored with Trump that he's willing to help him win by hacking Democracts? And what about the rumors about Trump and his advisors being in bed with Russian moneymen?

Sorry. There are just too many questions. I may not trust Clinton, but when it comes to Russia, I trust Trump even less.

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## RabzonKhan

The Economist magazine, has endorsed Hillary for president. 

Hillary is going to be good for the economy and business, the madman on the other hand is going to be a disaster, since the race has tightened, thanks to Republican FBI chief's the so-called, October surprise, the markets are already shaky.








*America’s best hope*

*Why we would cast our hypothetical vote for Hillary Clinton*

Nov 5th 2016 

A QUARTER of Americans born since 1980 believe that democracy is a bad form of government, many more than did so 20 years ago. If the two main parties had set about designing a contest to feed the doubts of young voters, they could not have done better than this year’s presidential campaign. The vote, on November 8th, is now in sight, yet many Americans would willingly undergo the exercise all over again—with two new candidates. Of course that is not on offer: the next president will be either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton.

*The choice is not hard. The campaign has provided daily evidence that Mr Trump would be a terrible president. He has exploited America’s simmering racial tensions (see article). His experience, temperament and character make him horribly unsuited to being the head of state of the nation that the rest of the democratic world looks to for leadership, the commander-in-chief of the world’s most powerful armed forces and the person who controls America’s nuclear deterrent.*

*That alone would stop us from casting a vote, if we had one, for Mr Trump. As it happens, he has a set of policies to go with his personality. A Trump government would cut taxes for the richest while imposing trade protection that would raise prices for the poorest. We disagree with him on the environment, immigration, America’s role in the world and other things besides. His ideas on revenue and spending are an affront to statistics.* We would sooner have endorsed Richard Nixon—even had we known how he would later come to grief.

*Our vote, then, goes to Hillary Clinton. Those who reject her simply because she is a Clinton, and because they detest the Clinton machine, are not paying attention to the turpitude of the alternative. Although, by itself, that is not much of an endorsement, we go further. Mrs Clinton is a better candidate than she seems and better suited to cope with the awful, broken state of Washington politics than her critics will admit. She also deserves to prevail on her own merits. *

Like Mr Trump, Mrs Clinton has ideas we disagree with. Her tax plan is fiddly. Her opposition to the trade deal with Asia that she once championed is disheartening. The scale of these defects, though, is measured in tiny increments compared with what Mr Trump proposes. On plenty of other questions her policies are those of the pragmatic centre of the Democratic Party. She wants to lock up fewer non-violent offenders, expand the provision of early education and introduce paid parental leave. She wants to continue Barack Obama’s efforts to slow global warming. In Britain her ideological home would be the mainstream of the Conservative Party; in Germany she would be a Christian Democrat.

In one sense Mrs Clinton is revolutionary. She would be America’s first female president in the 240 years since independence. This is not a clinching reason to vote for her. But it would be a genuine achievement. In every other sense, however, Mrs Clinton is a self-confessed incrementalist. She believes in the power of small changes compounded over time to bring about larger ones. An inability to sound as if she is offering an overnight transformation is one of the things that makes her a bad campaigner. Presidential nominees are now expected to inspire. Mrs Clinton would have been better-suited to the first half-century of presidential campaigns, when the candidates did not even give public speeches.

*However, a prosaic style combined with gradualism and hard work could make for a more successful presidency than her critics allow. In foreign policy, where the president’s power is greatest, Mrs Clinton would look out from the Resolute desk at a world that has inherited some of the risks of the cold war but not its stability. China’s rise and Russia’s decline call for both flexibility and toughness. International institutions, such as the UN, are weak; terrorism is transnational.*

So judgment and experience are essential and, despite Republican attempts to tarnish her over an attack in Benghazi in 2012, Mrs Clinton possesses both. As a senator she did solid work on the armed-services committee; as secretary of state she pursued the president’s policies abroad ably. Her view of America has much in common with Mr Obama’s. *She rightly argued for involvement early on in Syria. She has a more straightforward view of America’s capacity to do good; her former boss is more alert to the dangers of good intentions. The difference is of degree, though. Mrs Clinton helped lay the foundations for ending the embargo on Cuba, striking a nuclear deal with Iran and reaching agreement with China on global warming. A Clinton presidency would build on this.*

Keep America great

The harder question is how Mrs Clinton would govern at home. It is surely no coincidence that voters whose political consciousness dawned in the years between the attempted impeachment of Bill Clinton and the tawdriness of Mr Trump have such a low opinion of their political system. Over the past two decades political deadlock and mud-slinging have become normalised. Recent sessions of Congress have shut the government down, flirted with a sovereign default and enacted little substantive legislation. Even those conservatives inclined to mistake inaction for limited government are fed up.

The best that can be said of Mr Trump is that his candidacy is a symptom of the popular desire for a political revival. Every outrage and every broken taboo is taken as evidence that he would break the system in order that, overseen by a properly conservative Supreme Court, those who come after him might put something better in its place.

*This presidential election matters more than most because of the sheer recklessness of that scheme. It draws upon the belief that the complexity of Washington is smoke and mirrors designed to bamboozle the ordinary citizen; and that the more you know, the less you can be trusted. To hope that any good can come from Mr Trump’s wrecking job reflects a narcissistic belief that compromise in politics is a dirty word and a foolhardy confidence that, after a spell of chaos and demolition, you can magically unite the nation and fix what is wrong.*

If she wins, Mrs Clinton will take on the burden of refuting the would-be wreckers. In one way she is the wrong candidate for the job. The wife of a former president, who first moved into the White House almost 24 years ago, is an unlikely herald for renewal. In her long career she has at times occupied a no-man’s-land between worthy and unworthy, legal and illegal. That is why stories about the Clinton Foundation and her e-mails, which the FBI is looking at again, have been so damaging. They may barely register on the Trump-o-Meter of indiscretions but, in office, Mrs Clinton’s reputation for rule-breaking could destroy her.

In another way, she is well-suited to the task. Herding bills through Congress to the point of signing requires a tolerance for patient negotiating and a command of sleep-inducing detail. Though it has been hard to hear above the demand to “lock her up”, Mrs Clinton has campaigned for an open, optimistic country. She can take heart from the fact that, outside Washington, there is more bipartisanship and problem-solving than most Americans realise, and from the fact that popular pessimism has far overshot reality. *Around 80% of Trump supporters say that, for people like them, America is worse than it was 50 years ago. That is false: half a century ago 6m households lacked a flushing lavatory. It is also a most un-American way to see the world. The time is ripe for a rebound.*

In elections we have sometimes hoped for Congress and the presidency to be controlled by different parties. Some who cannot bring themselves to vote for Mr Trump but do not care for Mrs Clinton either will opt for that choice. Yet the loss of Congress would increase the chances of a Republican Party reformation that both the party and the United States need.

Hence our vote goes to both Mrs Clinton and her party. Partly because she is not Mr Trump, but also in the hope she can show that ordinary politics works for ordinary people—the sort of renewal that American democracy requires.

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## Solomon2

_The Economist:_ "a prosaic style combined with gradualism and hard work could make for a more successful presidency than her critics allow."​





_"A Potemkin process is better than nothing."_
- Hillary Clinton​


RabzonKhan said:


> Around 80% of Trump supporters say that, for people like them, America is worse than it was 50 years ago. That is false: half a century ago 6m households lacked a flushing lavatory.


So this magazine plainly assumes Trump supporters are descendants of poor folks whose grandparents used outhouses; i.e., they aren't members or supporters of the civilized elite. A very British and very un-American attitude, yes?


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## T-72

cloud4000 said:


> I have read Trump's book way back in the 1980s when I was in high school. I'm sorry, but negotiating a real estate deeal is vastly different excercise than negotiation with other countries. The stakes are so much higher and not always about dollars and cents.


in the end, it's always about dollars and cents.



cloud4000 said:


> Even if we give Trump the advantage of doubt, what kind of deal will he be seeking from Russia and Putin?


something that is beneficial to the US ?



cloud4000 said:


> What interests will Trump sacrifice to reach such a deal?


(hopefully) US backed Syrian "rebels" for one ?



cloud4000 said:


> And why is so Putin so enamored with Trump that he's willing to help him win by hacking Democracts?


oh please, as if hacking and espionage is something new for these 2 rivals. As citizens of the US, it would serve you better if you guys were to actually look into the content of those hacked e-mails because they expose the criminality and corruption of the Clinton machine, DNC or foundation, take your pick.

and what makes you think Putin is 'enamoured' with Trump ? Let's hear directly from him on it:








cloud4000 said:


> And what about the *rumors *about Trump and his advisors being in bed with Russian moneymen?


like the Trump organization's secret server and ties to the Russian oligarchy and some banks ?

super weak sauce, even the Trump hating mainstream press is calling them out for it:

Bloomberg: Clinton Plugs Another Weak Story About Trump’s Ties to Putin



cloud4000 said:


> I may not trust Clinton, but when it comes to Russia, I trust Trump even less.


fair enough, everyone has their pov but apart from the rumors, what exactly about Trump is it that bothers you when it comes to Russia ?

Clinton is on record and doubles down on her 'no fly zone' idea every time when asked/speaking about it, I fear that might lead to greater conflict between the world's 2 biggest nuclear armed states. She's a fucking neocon warhawk proxy jihadist loving saudi money grabbing corrupt two faced bitch, a danger to the planet.

bu-but Trump says mean things  ?

give me a break.


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## cloud4000

T-72 said:


> oh please, as if hacking and espionage is something new for these 2 rivals. As citizens of the US, it would serve you better if you guys were to actually look into the content of those hacked e-mails because they expose the criminality and corruption of the Clinton machine, DNC or foundation, take your pick.



So it's okay for a foreign country to hack the servers of a political party of another foreign country? If this happens to India, would you be saying the same? And did Russia really do this out of the welfare for Americans? No. It did it to support its own interests, and one of those interests is to have Trump in power instead of Clinton? Why? May be Trump will be Russia's useful idiot.



T-72 said:


> fair enough, everyone has their pov but apart from the rumors, what exactly about Trump is it that bothers you when it comes to Russia ?



It's just not about Russia, I dislike Trump completely. He is incoherent. Short-tempered. Ill-informed. Someone sophisticated like Putin will eat him alive. 



T-72 said:


> Clinton is on record and doubles down on her 'no fly zone' idea every time when asked/speaking about it, I fear that might lead to greater conflict between the world's 2 biggest nuclear armed states. She's a fucking neocon warhawk proxy jihadist loving saudi money grabbing corrupt two faced bitch, a danger to the planet.



Both Clinton and Trump are horrible people and should not be president, but all things being equal, I would rather have Clinton face off with Putin rather than Trump. That Putin dislikes Clinton is all I need to know.



T-72 said:


> bu-but Trump says mean things  ?



Clinton might be a liar, but Trump is a fool. I'll take a liar over a fool any day.

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## Solomon2

cloud4000 said:


> Clinton might be a liar, but Trump is a fool. I'll take a liar over a fool any day.


Trump is a fool AND a liar! That may make him more dangerous than Hillary but also much easier to impeach in case of misbehavior (because a fool will be more careless than Clinton in hiding his tracks) and thus remove from office.

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## T-72

cloud4000 said:


> So it's okay for a foreign country to hack the servers of a political party of another foreign country?












cloud4000 said:


> If this happens to India, would you be saying the same? And did Russia really do this out of the welfare for Americans? No. It did it to support its own interests, and one of those interests is to have Trump in power instead of Clinton? Why? May be Trump will be Russia's useful idiot.


I tried to explain earlier, the hacking etc isn't new, happens 24/7, all major powers hack/snoop in on each other, even allies aren't spared.

What evidence is there that it's Russia who is behind the wikileaks, and even if you have evidence (which nobody will ever have a way to verify, we'll just have to take some US govt agencies' word on it), why ignore the incriminating content ? 

She stole the nomination from Sanders, colluded with media corporations hosting the debates, takes money from terror sponsoring states, pays to rig the polls, she sure wanted to rig the Palestinian election a decade ago.. destabilized the middle east, pro muslim brotherhood, pro syrian rebel, destroyed Libya.. 

and, because you didn't answer earlier, I'll ask again.. 

what specifically is it that you think Trump will do that will hurt the US and that makes him a "useful idiot" for Russia ? 



cloud4000 said:


> Both Clinton and Trump are horrible people and should not be president


bs, that's just the trendy politically correct acceptable thing to say. Anyone who would bother zooming out of the minutia of media sensationalism of mean tweets etc and focus on the big issues will see that Trump is common sense while she will be a disaster. (ww3 is in her manifesto)



cloud4000 said:


> I would rather have Clinton face off with Putin rather than Trump. That Putin dislikes Clinton is all I need to know.


you'd have to be a fool to believe that he's a great fan of Trump, and a bigger fool to not want to give peace a chance.


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## RabzonKhan

It will be an interesting night, guys, and don't forget








POLITICS 2016 ELECTION DAY

*A Viewer's Guide: What to Watch on Election Night
*
by CARRIE DANN

The 2016 election has been a wild ride from the very start, and Election Night promises to be a whirlwind of exit polls, anecdotes from polling places, concerns about voter suppression or fraud and a cascade of results beginning at 7 p.m. ET.

*5 p.m. ET: Exit polls*

At 5 p.m. ET, news network number-crunchers will get their first peek at early exit polls. Exit polls are surveys based on interviews of voters leaving their polling places. The exit polls provide the most complete picture of voter attitudes on Election Day. Keep your eyes peeled for what the early exit poll data show us about how voters are feeling about the direction of the country and the big themes both candidates have been pushing.

*7 p.m. ET: The first results*

Now it gets really interesting! Six states have a FINAL poll close at 7 p.m.: Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, South Carolina, Vermont and Virginia. Here are some key things to watch:


Positive early numbers in Virginia would be a great sign for Hillary Clinton, whose consistent advantage in the traditionally purple Commonwealth has been a significant part of her overall swing state advantage heading into the election. Keep in mind that the voter-rich DC suburbs may take some time to count votes, though.
For a good early indicator of how the Trump effect may be factoring into down-ballot races, keep an eye on VA-10, where incumbent Republican Rep. Barbara Comstock is in a tight race with Democrat LuAnn Bennett in a district with a lot of affluent suburban voters who might not be big fans of Trump.
Georgia, which could be far closer than in previous elections, is a particularly important state to watch: Look at how big minority turnout here was, and keep an eye on county results in Atlanta's affluent suburbs, where Trump could have turned off the high education white voters he would need to hold off a big Clinton surge.
Indiana's Senate race between former Democratic Sen. and Gov. Evan Bayh and Republican Todd Young pits experience and high name ID against GOP-led change. It's looking like a close race.
*7:30 p.m. ET: Two biggies: North Carolina and Ohio*


In the Tarheel State, keep an eye on population centers around Raleigh and Charlotte to see if Clinton is reaching or surpassing Barack Obama's 2008 margins (He narrowly won North Carolina in 2008 but lost to Mitt Romney in 2012.)
Don't miss the Senate race in North Carolina either; the match-up between incumbent Republican Richard Burr and Democrat Deborah Ross could be one of the closest in the country.
Ohio's relatively low share of college-educated white voters could make it a ripe pickup for Trump. Watch Clinton's margins in key swing areas like Hamilton County.
*8 p.m. ET: Florida, and more Clinton firewall states*

More than a dozen states have final poll closings now, but here are the most important ones: Florida, New Hampshire and Pennsylvania. All three have close presidential contests as well as Republican Senate incumbents fighting to hang on to their jobs.


Florida's famed I-4 corridor (running horizontally through the state between Orlando and Tampa) will be one of the top regions to watch.
In Pennsylvania, keep an eye on the Philadelphia suburbs — places like Bucks and Chester Counties. If Clinton runs up the score there, it'll be exceptionally difficult for Trump to swing things his way in other parts of the state.
Like Pennsylvania, New Hampshire is a firewall state for Clinton that could help insure against Trump wins in states like Nevada or Iowa.
Keep an eye on the competitive Senate races: New Hampshire's Kelly Ayotte vs. Maggie Hassan; Florida's Marco Rubio vs. Patrick Murphy; and Pennsylvania's Pat Toomey vs. Katie McGinty. In all of these races, watch how the Republican incumbents perform compared to Trump; they'll probably need to outstrip him by a pretty good clip.
Missouri's presidential contest is looking less close these days, but its Senate race between incumbent Republican Roy Blunt and Democrat Jason Kander could go down to the wire. This is one case where a good Trump performance could buoy a Republican to victory
*9 p.m. ET: Watch the Rust Belt — and demographics are destiny in Arizona?*

If Clinton is headed towards a historic sweep, we'll have a better idea of how big it is once we hit the 9 p.m. poll closings. If Trump is going to take things down to the wire, we'll know by watching the Rust Belt, too. A series of Midwestern, usually blue-leaning states close at this hour: Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin. Colorado, a big insurance-policy state for Team Clinton, closes as well, along with typically blue New Mexico.


Trump has hoped to make states like Wisconsin and Michigan competitive, predicting that a surge of white working class voters who had previously stayed home on Election Day will flock to support him. Trump will almost certainly have to flip one of these blue states red to get to 270 electoral votes.
The demographics-are-destiny crowd will have a lot to look for starting now, when both Arizona and Texas close. Despite both states' GOP leanings, Democrats hope that the growing share of Latinos in both states can tilt them purple. (Keep in mind that Arizona tends not to release votes til around 10 p.m. ET, though.)
Clinton has been polling well in Colorado, but Trump also looked to make a late play in the state. Watch whether Latino turnout approaches 2008 and 2012 levels early, and keep an eye on the split among younger voters.
An interesting House race to watch in Colorado is Denver-area incumbent Republican Mike Coffman, who's distanced himself from Trump in this growing Latino area.
*10 p.m. ET: Suspense in… Utah?*

Don't let the kids go to bed yet! No matter what happens, there's plenty of suspense with later races.


For example, if Evan McMullin bests Trump and Clinton in Utah, he would be the first third party candidate to win a state since 1968.
If it's a very good night for down-ballot Democrats, Nevada's Senate race could be what clinches the majority for them; if it's a good night for Republicans, it could give the GOP assurance that they'll keep the gavel.
Another 10 p.m. ET poll close: Iowa, which could be Trump's best swing state of the bunch.
*11 p.m. ET: Lights out in every state but Alaska*

The five states that close at 11 p.m. ET — California, Hawaii, Idaho, Oregon and Washington — are all solid Republican or Democratic states. But there could be some excitement in California, where House Democrats hope to oust a handful of Republicans who have been clinging to congressional districts despite growing Latino and college-educated populations.


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## RabzonKhan

Solomon2 said:


> So this magazine plainly assumes Trump supporters are descendants of poor folks whose grandparents used outhouses; i.e., they aren't members or supporters of the civilized elite. A very British and very un-American attitude, yes?


The magazine is not assuming, they are quoting opinion poll of Trump’s supporters, that's what his supporters believe.






A new national survey finds that Trump supporters overwhelmingly believe that life in America is worse than it was 50 years ago “for people like them.” Fully 81% of registered voters who support Trump say life has gotten worse, compared with just 11% who say it has gotten better (6% say it is about the same). *Link*






Melania is very angry at people who bully others on the Internet.
Look, whose wife is talking. Dumb, dumb, dumb!

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## Akasa

cloud4000 said:


> Please explain how given the allegations that Trump is a Russian stooge?



Those allegations have been proven false by the FBI investigation itself.

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## T-72




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## ARABIC

trump is dump he will destroy us

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## LA se Karachi

*Voters Express Disgust Over U.S. Politics in New Times/CBS Poll*

JONATHAN MARTIN, DALIA SUSSMAN and MEGAN THEE-BRENAN NOV. 3, 2016






Hillary Clinton in Las Vegas on Wednesday. Credit Doug Mills/The New York Times 


*An overwhelming majority of voters are disgusted by the state of American politics, and many harbor doubts that either major-party nominee can unite the country after a historically ugly presidential campaign, according to the final pre-election New York Times/CBS News Poll.

In a grim preview of the discontent that may cloud at least the outset of the next president’s term, Hillary Clinton and Donald J. Trump are seen by a majority of voters as unlikely to bring the country back together after this bitter election season.

With more than eight in 10 voters saying the campaign has left them repulsed rather than excited, the rising toxicity threatens the ultimate victor. Mrs. Clinton, the Democratic candidate, and Mr. Trump, the Republican nominee, are seen as dishonest and viewed unfavorably by a majority of voters.*

While her advantage has narrowed since mid-October, Mrs. Clinton still has an edge in the survey because of a commanding advantage among women and nonwhite voters. She has the support of 45 percent of likely voters while Mr. Trump has 42 percent. Gary Johnson, the Libertarian nominee, has slipped to 5 percent, and Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate, is at 4 percent.

If she wins, Mrs. Clinton will enter the White House to face immediate governing challenges not only from the deep partisanship ruling Washington but also from a large number of Mr. Trump’s supporters who say they are not prepared to accept the results.

After weeks of Mr. Trump’s accusations that the election is “rigged,” a little more than six in 10 of his supporters say they will accept the results as legitimate if he loses. More than a quarter of Mr. Trump’s supporters say they will probably not accept the outcome if Mrs. Clinton is declared the winner, and nearly 40 percent of them say they have little or no confidence that Americans’ votes will be counted properly.

Republican anger is directed not only at Mrs. Clinton or the electoral process. About as many Republican voters say Mr. Trump’s candidacy has been bad for the party as believe his campaign has been positive for Republicans, an extraordinary divide over their own standard-bearer on the eve of the election.

As Republicans face the possibility of their third consecutive presidential loss, their own voters overwhelmingly acknowledge the party is facing a schism: 85 percent of Republican voters said the party was divided, and only 14 percent said it was united.

But Republicans cannot even agree on who is to blame for the division, though they largely believe Mr. Trump has been the impetus for the breach, according to some follow-up interviews.

“I think Donald Trump has definitely divided the party,” said Sheila Wagner, 79, a Republican from Redmond, Wash. She said she had already marked her ballot for Mrs. Clinton, adding: “When he first declared he was going to run, I thought it was a joke. I just couldn’t believe anyone would favor him.”

Yet other Republicans point the finger at Republicans who have refused to support Mr. Trump.

“The old school, quote unquote, the Bushes, the people who have been around a long time, aren’t supporting Trump, and that’s creating division,” said Nora Reinhardt, 66, a farmer from Holt, Mo. “Some Republicans, because of comments Trump has made, which I grant are uncouth and certainly not politically correct, have found they can’t support him, although I think some of those people are coming around at this point.”

She said she was supporting Mr. Trump because she agreed with his policy positions.

Whatever their reasons, and despite how many of them think Mr. Trump has been detrimental to the party, more than eight in 10 Republican voters are falling in line behind their nominee.

The nationwide telephone poll was conducted with 1,333 registered voters from Oct. 28 to Nov. 1 on cellphones and landlines. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus three percentage points for all voters.

More than 22 million Americans had already cast their ballots when the poll was taken, and roughly one in five likely voters who participated said they had already voted.

National polling averages showed a growing lead for Mrs. Clinton in mid-October after the release of the “Access Hollywood” recording from 2005 in which Mr. Trump spoke crudely about women. As women from his past came out over the next weeks to accuse him of groping and forcibly kissing them, his poll numbers dipped.

Yet after a rough few weeks, enthusiasm among Mr. Trump’s supporters has rebounded: 52 percent now say they are very enthusiastic about voting. Enthusiasm among Mrs. Clinton’s supporters has been flat since September: 47 percent say they are very enthusiastic to vote.

Mrs. Clinton holds a 14-point advantage over her opponent among women, while Mr. Trump leads among men by 11 points. White women, who supported Republican candidates in the last three presidential elections, are now evenly split.

*There is also a wide class divide: Mrs. Clinton has the support of 48 percent of whites with college degrees — a constituency that historically votes for a Republican presidential nominee — while Mr. Trump is backed by 41 percent from the same voters. But Mr. Trump receives 55 percent from whites without college degrees, while Mrs. Clinton captures just 30 percent from that group.

Majorities of voters say that Mr. Trump is not qualified to be president and that he lacks the temperament to serve in that office.*

Last Friday, when the director of the F.B.I., James B. Comey, sent a letter to Congress about a renewed inquiry concerning Mrs. Clinton’s emails, Mr. Trump seized on the chance to shift campaign’s tenor and focus on the controversy over her handling of emails when she was secretary of state.

The Times/CBS poll began hours after Mr. Comey’s letter became public. Most voters who were contacted said they had heard about the development. More voters said they were aware of accusations that Mr. Trump had made unwanted sexual advances toward several women.

Yet about six in 10 voters over all said the 11th-hour disclosures about each candidate would make no real difference in their votes. However, more people said the allegations about Mr. Trump were likely to negatively affect their votes than those who said the new email developments would discourage them from voting for Mrs. Clinton.

Four in 10 likely voters said Mr. Trump’s behavior toward women made them less likely to support him while fewer, one-third, said the newest development in the F.B.I. investigation into Mrs. Clinton’s emails had that effect.

*Also bolstering Mrs. Clinton, and the possibility of a third straight Democratic term in the White House, is President Obama’s popularity. Fifty-two percent of registered voters approve of the job Mr. Obama is doing, an increase from earlier this year.

While Mr. Obama’s standing has increased, the campaign has taken a toll on Mrs. Clinton’s image. Only 32 percent of voters say she is honest and trustworthy, and a quarter of Democrats and nearly six in 10 independents do not think she will be able to unite the country if she wins.*

*“The campaign has gotten uglier and uglier,” said Michael Pappas, a real estate broker in Knoxville, Tenn., who is a Republican. “It’s been about mudslinging and attacking personalities instead of talking about issues, talking about how we can help our country move forward and succeed.”*
_
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/04/us/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-poll.html_

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## Desert Fox

ARABIC said:


> trump is dump he will destroy us


Right, i understand your pain 








​

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## Solomon2

ARABIC said:


> trump is dump he will destroy us


By my estimate Hillary will collect at least 266 electoral votes.. She needs only 270 to win.


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## maximuswarrior

Awesome explanation by Michael Moore. Explains it all in a nutshell. Angry people make unwise choices, but angry and malicious people make intentional unwise choices. Just my 2 cents.


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## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> Awesome explanation by Michael Moore. Explains it all in a nutshell. Angry people make unwise choices, but angry and malicious people make intentional unwise choices. Just my 2 cents.


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## RabzonKhan

*







Is Nate Silver right?

Most polling models show Hillary Clinton winning easily. Why is 538 more cautious?
*
By Steven Shepard 11/04/16

Polling averages and forecast models are supposed to bring order to the chaos, put outlier polls in proper perspective and provide a sober, unbiased picture of the state of the presidential race.

So why are they all over place in the final days, with some models asserting a Hillary Clinton victory is a near-certainty, and others giving Donald Trump a real chance at winning?
The HuffPost Pollster model, on the other hand, is far more confident in Clinton’s chances, giving her an 98.1 percent chance of winning as of Friday morning. It’s based on HuffPost Pollster’s polling charts — which, unlike RealClearPolitics, is not a simple average of the polls but is designed to make sense of seemingly contradictory results by discounting, though not dismissing, outlier polls.

“The advantage of that is that the model looks for the most likely polling estimate and doesn't change drastically when there's an outlier poll — whereas a straight average will move toward the outlier,” said Natalie Jackson, the senior polling editor at The Huffington Post. “The disadvantage is that it's slower to pick up on changes in polls; it requires a few polls showing a change in the trend before it will reflect a new trend. That's what we're seeing now — some polls are less positive for Clinton, but others are basically in line with what the trends have been saying.

“Since the evidence is conflicting, the model sticks with past trends,” Jackson continued in an email. “It's a trade-off in letting outliers and individual polls affect the aggregate, versus requiring more evidence to change a trend. Right now, we're on the latter side. Of course, we’ll assess how that worked after the election.”

That approach — in addition to other decisions about which polls are included — has also led to a massive divergence between the nation’s top two polling aggregation sites: RealClearPolitics’ and HuffPost Pollster’s polling charts.

As of late Friday morning, Clinton led by 1.7 points in a head-to-head matchup with Trump nationally, according to the RealClearPolitics average. But Clinton’s lead in the HuffPost Pollster model was a far more robust 6.1 points.

There’s always been some differences in the forecast models, but the models have pulled apart rather than converge as the election has drawn closer — in large part because of Trump’s late surge.

On the day of the third Clinton-Trump debate on October 19, the FiveThirtyEight model had Clinton an 87.3-percent chance of winning, more comparable to the Upshot’s 92 percent, and Daily Kos Elections’ 95 percent.

But since Trump’s polling recovery over the past two weeks, Clinton has slid more in some models than others.

The FiveThirtyEight model showed Clinton’s win-probability slipping nearly 22 points from its October high. Silver said that better reflects the volatility in the race — both in the most recent swing in the polls toward Trump, along with the significant number of voters still undecided or lining up behind minor-party candidates.

“[E]verything depends on one's assumptions, but I think that our assumptions — a Clinton lead, sure, but high uncertainty — has repeatedly been validated by the evidence we've seen over the course of the past several months,” Silver said. “The idea that she's a prohibitive, 95 percent-plus favorite is hard to square with polling that has frequently shown 5- or 6-point swings within the span of a couple weeks, given that she only leads by 3 points or so now.”

But other models are far more stable, confident in the balance of public polling, which still shows Clinton ahead.

“[The HuffPost Pollster model is] designed to get more certain as we get closer to the election, so we're seeing more certainty within the last few days,” Jackson said. “We have uncertainty built into the model for undecideds in the polls and the event that the polls could be wrong, but (clearly) not much. Basically, the approach is that we trust the polls, and if they go down we're going down, too.” *Link*

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## T-72

right, so they're all either poor and dumb, or they're klansmen. 

Trump might surprise a few people yet with his depth of support among all demographics.


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## Solomon2

T-72 said:


> Trump might surprise a few people yet with his depth of support among all demographics.


I don't think it's enough to make the difference. And while Hillary's latest troubles will keep some Dems away from the polls and garner some Trump support imo other voters will find her criminality appealing - even reassuring - and switch to her side as a result.


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## T-72

Solomon2 said:


> I don't think it's enough to make the difference. And while Hillary's latest troubles will keep some Dems away from the polls and garner some Trump support imo other voters will find her criminality appealing - even reassuring - and switch to her side as a result.




and apart from 'the establishment', what demographic might that be ?


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## RabzonKhan

*Political Cartoons*

*




*

*



*

*



*

*



*


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## T-72



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## Desert Fox

T-72 said:


>



Lol what a collection. Ben Garrison has one hell of a sense of humor.

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## Desert Fox

@Nilgiri @T-72 @RabzonKhan @C130

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## Desert Fox

@RabzonKhan @Nilgiri @T-72 @C130

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## RabzonKhan

Donald Trump comes to us only as “businessman.” So considering it’s his one and only qualification for the candidacy, you’d think he’d be better at it.








Of course, everyone is familiar with Trump’s real estate failings (more generally known as Atlantic City), but it’s the business ventures where his recklessness really shines. The man licensed his name to hundreds of trademarks (like the game show below that lasted but a year) and incorporated countless businesses-to-be, but only a select few (dozen) were actually led by the hand of the Donald himself.

*So to commemorate our country’s imminent President Trump-wrought downfall, we’ve compiled every major, non-real estate-related Trump business disaster out there (we think). Because while we aim for completeness, the man has failed—a lot. If you know of anything we missed, please do let us know down below. And Donald, good luck with that wall.

Trump Steaks





*
Launched: 2007

Service rendered: Steaks

Years in business: 1

What went wrong: Trump filed the trademark nearly ten years ago, noting that it would be used for “meat, namely, beef, veal, lamb, and pork.” The meat itself came from the Sysco-owned Buckhead Beef, and after first (and presumably, unsuccessfully) attempting to sell the Trump-branded meat on a custom steak-centric website...

As you would expect of anything worthy of bearing the Trump name, the steaks didn’t come cheap. For instance, $1,000 would buy you 24 burgers, 16 steaks, and the dull pangs of regret.

For whatever reason, the wildly expensive steaks sold by a novelty electronics chain didn’t fly off the shelves. Or, as Levin put it, “The net of all that [media attention] was we literally sold almost no steaks,” Levin said. “If we sold $50,000 of steaks grand total, I’d be surprised.”

But how did they _taste_? According to one reviewer, “They are really greasy, have no flavor, over-priced and just gross!! 


*GoTrump.com*

*



*

Launched: 2006

Service rendered: Travel search engine

Years in business: 1

What went wrong: Remember Orbitz? Expedia? What about Travelocity? GoTrump.com provided exactly the same service but with significantly more Trump (i.e. pictures of his face, a delightful mustard-gold trim, and “Trump Picks,” which highlighted “specific hotels and vacation packages that are his personal favorites”).

As Trump explained in the website’s About section, “I only put my name on the best, and at GoTrump.com you will get the best information and the best online rate available.” Unfortunately for the Donald, “the best” doesn’t really mean much of anything when you’re boasting both private jets _and_ cheap hotel deals.

When the site launched, a financial analyst told _The Washington Post _that it seemed like “a vanity site” that “won’t make much money.” He was right. The site shut down the following year. 

will continue....

*Trump Airlines*

*



*

Launched: 1989

Service rendered: Hourly flights between Boston, New York City, and Washington D.C.

Years in business: 4-ish

What went wrong: This was another case of Donald Trump attempting to turn a service that already exists into something a little more Trump-y. But this time, rather than build something entirely new, Trump purchased Eastern Air Lines Shuttle, which had been offering hourly flights on the East Coast since 1961 with moderate success. That all changed with Trump’s magic touch.

The airline had succeeded largely because of its no-frills service—you didn’t need a reservation ahead of time, there were no seat assignments, no check-ins, and no boarding passes. You’d show up and hop on a plane for relatively cheap. When Trump bought 17 of the company’s Boeing 727s for $365 million in 1988, “he added maple-wood veneer to the floors, chrome seat-belt latches and gold-colored bathroom fixtures.”

Apparently, customers who appreciated the service’s ease weren’t into the over-the-top makeover. Alienated customers combined with the high fuel prices of the late 80s translated to Trump Airlines never turning a profit. As _Time_explains,* “The high debt forced Trump to default on his loans, and ownership of the company was turned over to creditors. The Trump Shuttle ceased to exist in 1992 when it was merged into a new corporation, Shuttle Inc. No word on whether the gold-plated faucets survived the merger.”*


*Trump Vodka






*
Launched: 2006

Service Rendered: Drunk

Years in business: 5

What went wrong: After labeling the drink as “The World’s Finest Super Premium Vodka” and proudly quintuple-distilling it in Holland from “select European wheat,” Trump was proudly telling anyone who’d listen that T&Ts (Trump and tonic) were about to become the number one drink in the country.

*Trump was supposedly attempting to rival Grey Goose for a spot on the nation’s top shelves. No one else seemed to have gotten that message, though, and the drink went out of production in 2011 when no one ever wanted to drink it. *

more failures, will continue....

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## KAL-EL

This thread has gotten much more shall I say "fascinating" in the last few days 

I must remember to come here on Election night after I cast my vote


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## cleverrider

KAL-EL said:


> This thread has gotten much more shall I say "fascinating" in the last few days I must remember to come here on Election night after I cast my vote



What do you think, who is gonna Win? florida and north carolina?


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## manlion

*China’s ‘monkey king’ picks Trump as next US president*
In this photo taken on November 3, 2016, a monkey kisses the cardboard cutout of US Presidential candidate Donald Trump during a selection intended to predict the result of the US election at a park in Changsha. -AFP


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## Desert Fox

*Trump Gaining Among Women, Independent Voters*​



Weeks of wall-to-wall media coverage of Donald Trump's crude language and alleged misdeeds involving women don't seem to have hurt his standing among female voters, the IBD/TIPP presidential tracking poll shows.

That's not to say there isn't a gender gap — there's still a big one. But Trump's support among women has improved 5 points in the past three days in the wake of the FBI's stunning announcement that it is looking into a fresh batch of emails relating to Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server while secretary of state.




As of Tuesday, 39% of women said they're backing Trump, compared with 34% who supported Trump in Saturday's tracking poll.

And as result, the thrice-married, acid-tongued Trump is doing just as well among women as squeaky-clean Mitt Romney was doing at this point in the Oct. 28, 2012, IBD/TIPP tracking poll, when Romney also got 39% of the female vote. (Hurricane Sandy interrupted daily updates to the tracking poll after that date.)

It's worth noting that the 2012 poll asked only about Romney and Obama, while this year's results include Libertarian Gary Johnson (who is getting 4% of the female vote) and Green Party candidate Jill Stein (3%).

_*The Latest:* Trump and Clinton are now tied at 44% to 44% in IBD/TIPP presidential tracking poll._

While Trump is polling worse than Romney among married women — 46% vs 51% — he's doing better among single women — 28% to Romney's 23%.

On the other side of the gender gap, Trump gets 50% of the male vote, the same share as Romney. But Clinton is doing slightly _worse_ among men than Obama was at this point in the 2012 race — she captures just 38% of men's votes, compared with Obama's 40%.

Meanwhile, Trump's supposed problem with Republicans and the #NeverTrump crowd isn't showing up in the polls, either. While many prominent GOPers have refused to support his candidacy — Ohio Gov. John Kasich announced that he wrote in Sen. John McCain's name when he voted early — Trump gets 88% support among likely Republican voters, the same as Romney. Four percent of Republicans say they plan to vote for Clinton, which is also identical to the share of Republicans who said they supported Obama in 2012.

What's more, Trump is doing slightly better with independents than Romney — 48% support Trump vs. 46% who backed Romney.

Trump is also doing far better among working class voters — 50% of whom back Trump vs 35% who supported Romney.

None of this is to say anything about Trump's chances on Nov. 8. At this point in the race four years ago, Obama had an overall 1.3-point lead over Romney, and went on to win the race by a margin of more than three percentage points.

At the moment, Clinton is ahead of Trump by 0.9 percentage point, although this is down from 4 points just three days ago.

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## Desert Fox

God this is so funny, :"it's the KGB!!, it's the KGB!!", they've gone nuts 

*Clinton Camp. Launches All Out Attack On FBI, Accuses Comey Of Being "KGB Agent", Demand He Resign For Doing His Job*​



Top Democrats are ratcheting up their criticism of FBI Director James Comey for going public with a decision to revisit the Hillary Clinton email probe days before the election, *with a few even hinting they want him fired* -- though President Obama has shown little indication he'd oblige right now. 

Valerie Jarrett, Obama’s chief adviser, reportedly is among those who want Comey gone. 

“Valerie argued that Comey was interfering deliberately in the election process and had to be stopped,” a source told The New York Post. The same source said Obama, though, is “worried about the consequences of taking such an action – the tsunami of outrage that would come his way, and possibly become a major footnote, or worse, in the history of the presidency.” 

The outrage from Democrats in recent days has been matched by applause from Republicans, in a reversal from the summer -- *when GOP lawmakers were grumbling about Comey's decision not to pursue charges in the Clinton case and Democrats praised Comey's professionalism. *

House Homeland Security Committee Chairman Mike McCaul, R-Texas, called Comey a "hero" and ripped Jarrett. 

“I don’t think Valerie Jarrett has any credibility here,” he told Fox News.

Comey notified Congress last Friday that during an investigation of Clinton confidant Huma Abedin’s estranged husband Anthony Weiner, FBI agents found indications that a laptop used by the disgraced congressman contained some emails related to the FBI’s earlier probe of Clinton’s private computer server.

The disclosure, coming 11 days before the election, roiled the presidential campaign as top Democrats sprung into damage control.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi told CNN, “Maybe he’s not in the right job.”

She added, “I think that we have to just get through this election and just see what the casualties are along the way.”

New York Sen. Chuck Schumer called Comey’s actions “appalling,” adding that he has lost “confidence” in the director.

Schumer’s comments come on the heels of outgoing Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid accusing Comey of possibly violating federal law.

In an Oct. 30 letter to Comey, Reid said Comey may have violated the Hatch Act, which prohibits government officials from using their positon of power to influence an election.

Republicans blasted Reid for the letter. 

Meanwhile, as Democrats pile on the criticism, a new report in The Guardian seems to indicate many FBI agents are backing Donald Tump.

“The FBI is Trumpland,” one agent told the paper.

The unnamed agent said Clinton is “the antichrist personified to a large swath of FBI personnel” and is the reason why so many leaks about the investigation have been anti-Clinton and pro-Trump.

FoxNews.com has not independently verified the claims made by the FBI agent.

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## T-72

*
Full Speech: Donald Trump MASSIVE Rally in Hershey, PA 11/4/16*










http://harperpolling.com/polls/pennsylvania-statewide-poll--11-2-3#PresidentTIE
http://www.denverpost.com/2016/11/02/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-tied-in-colorado-new-poll-shows/
http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/04/exclusive-poll-trump-clinton-tied-in-michigan/
https://www.uml.edu/docs/TOPLINE-NH-GENERAL-20161103_tcm18-264691.pdf

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## ptldM3

Desert Fox said:


> God this is so funny, :"it's the KGB!!, it's the KGB!!", they've gone nuts
> 
> *Clinton Camp. Launches All Out Attack On FBI, Accuses Comey Of Being "KGB Agent", Demand He Resign For Doing His Job*​
> View attachment 349487​
> Top Democrats are ratcheting up their criticism of FBI Director James Comey for going public with a decision to revisit the Hillary Clinton email probe days before the election, *with a few even hinting they want him fired* -- though President Obama has shown little indication he'd oblige right now.
> 
> Valerie Jarrett, Obama’s chief adviser, reportedly is among those who want Comey gone.
> 
> “Valerie argued that Comey was interfering deliberately in the election process and had to be stopped,” a source told The New York Post. The same source said Obama, though, is “worried about the consequences of taking such an action – the tsunami of outrage that would come his way, and possibly become a major footnote, or worse, in the history of the presidency.”
> 
> The outrage from Democrats in recent days has been matched by applause from Republicans, in a reversal from the summer -- *when GOP lawmakers were grumbling about Comey's decision not to pursue charges in the Clinton case and Democrats praised Comey's professionalism. *
> 
> House Homeland Security Committee Chairman Mike McCaul, R-Texas, called Comey a "hero" and ripped Jarrett.
> 
> “I don’t think Valerie Jarrett has any credibility here,” he told Fox News.
> 
> Comey notified Congress last Friday that during an investigation of Clinton confidant Huma Abedin’s estranged husband Anthony Weiner, FBI agents found indications that a laptop used by the disgraced congressman contained some emails related to the FBI’s earlier probe of Clinton’s private computer server.
> 
> The disclosure, coming 11 days before the election, roiled the presidential campaign as top Democrats sprung into damage control.
> 
> House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi told CNN, “Maybe he’s not in the right job.”
> 
> She added, “I think that we have to just get through this election and just see what the casualties are along the way.”
> 
> New York Sen. Chuck Schumer called Comey’s actions “appalling,” adding that he has lost “confidence” in the director.
> 
> Schumer’s comments come on the heels of outgoing Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid accusing Comey of possibly violating federal law.
> 
> In an Oct. 30 letter to Comey, Reid said Comey may have violated the Hatch Act, which prohibits government officials from using their positon of power to influence an election.
> 
> Republicans blasted Reid for the letter.
> 
> Meanwhile, as Democrats pile on the criticism, a new report in The Guardian seems to indicate many FBI agents are backing Donald Tump.
> 
> “The FBI is Trumpland,” one agent told the paper.
> 
> The unnamed agent said Clinton is “the antichrist personified to a large swath of FBI personnel” and is the reason why so many leaks about the investigation have been anti-Clinton and pro-Trump.
> 
> FoxNews.com has not independently verified the claims made by the FBI agent.





KGB, she is a moron 


How is she even where she is at? She has cheated her way to the top. She is a dead corpse being dragged to the finish line.


The DNC colluded to unfairly get her the Democratic nomination.

From Wekileaks we know her campaign manager colluded with dozens of journalists. No wounder the media has been so anti Trump, nothing new hear we all know Hillary is a cheater.

Hillary was given debate questions ahead of time. Again a cheater.

Bribes the FBI with hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Has paid instigators cause fights at Trump rallies.

Spreads blatant lies about Trump and even now as you posted lies about the FBI director. She is a pathological lier and suffers from schizophrenia. She probably thinks there are KGB agents under her bed too.


Then if she can not get any lower she makes up claims about Trump and a Russian connection which the FBI debunked. Even if it was true, so what? She is the one that has taken hundreds of thousands from Russian companies and even from countries like Saudi Arabia that behead gays, outlaw Christianity, prosecute Shia, execute people for leaving Islam, treat women like trash ect.


And she has the nerve to talk about human and women's rights. 




She deserves prison.

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## T-Rex

manlion said:


> *China’s ‘monkey king’ picks Trump as next US president*
> In this photo taken on November 3, 2016, a monkey kisses the cardboard cutout of US Presidential candidate Donald Trump during a selection intended to predict the result of the US election at a park in Changsha. -AFP


*
This monkey must have been imported from india!*


----------



## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> Donald Trump comes to us only as “businessman.” So considering it’s his one and only qualification for the candidacy, you’d think he’d be better at it.
> 
> 
> View attachment 349436
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, everyone is familiar with Trump’s real estate failings (more generally known as Atlantic City), but it’s the business ventures where his recklessness really shines. The man licensed his name to hundreds of trademarks (like the game show below that lasted but a year) and incorporated countless businesses-to-be, but only a select few (dozen) were actually led by the hand of the Donald himself.
> 
> *So to commemorate our country’s imminent President Trump-wrought downfall, we’ve compiled every major, non-real estate-related Trump business disaster out there (we think). Because while we aim for completeness, the man has failed—a lot. If you know of anything we missed, please do let us know down below. And Donald, good luck with that wall.
> 
> Trump Steaks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Launched: 2007
> 
> Service rendered: Steaks
> 
> Years in business: 1
> 
> What went wrong: Trump filed the trademark nearly ten years ago, noting that it would be used for “meat, namely, beef, veal, lamb, and pork.” The meat itself came from the Sysco-owned Buckhead Beef, and after first (and presumably, unsuccessfully) attempting to sell the Trump-branded meat on a custom steak-centric website...
> 
> As you would expect of anything worthy of bearing the Trump name, the steaks didn’t come cheap. For instance, $1,000 would buy you 24 burgers, 16 steaks, and the dull pangs of regret.
> 
> For whatever reason, the wildly expensive steaks sold by a novelty electronics chain didn’t fly off the shelves. Or, as Levin put it, “The net of all that [media attention] was we literally sold almost no steaks,” Levin said. “If we sold $50,000 of steaks grand total, I’d be surprised.”
> 
> But how did they _taste_? According to one reviewer, “They are really greasy, have no flavor, over-priced and just gross!!
> 
> 
> *GoTrump.com*
> 
> *
> View attachment 349437
> *
> 
> Launched: 2006
> 
> Service rendered: Travel search engine
> 
> Years in business: 1
> 
> What went wrong: Remember Orbitz? Expedia? What about Travelocity? GoTrump.com provided exactly the same service but with significantly more Trump (i.e. pictures of his face, a delightful mustard-gold trim, and “Trump Picks,” which highlighted “specific hotels and vacation packages that are his personal favorites”).
> 
> As Trump explained in the website’s About section, “I only put my name on the best, and at GoTrump.com you will get the best information and the best online rate available.” Unfortunately for the Donald, “the best” doesn’t really mean much of anything when you’re boasting both private jets _and_ cheap hotel deals.
> 
> When the site launched, a financial analyst told _The Washington Post _that it seemed like “a vanity site” that “won’t make much money.” He was right. The site shut down the following year.
> 
> will continue....
> 
> *Trump Airlines*
> 
> *
> View attachment 349443
> *
> 
> Launched: 1989
> 
> Service rendered: Hourly flights between Boston, New York City, and Washington D.C.
> 
> Years in business: 4-ish
> 
> What went wrong: This was another case of Donald Trump attempting to turn a service that already exists into something a little more Trump-y. But this time, rather than build something entirely new, Trump purchased Eastern Air Lines Shuttle, which had been offering hourly flights on the East Coast since 1961 with moderate success. That all changed with Trump’s magic touch.
> 
> The airline had succeeded largely because of its no-frills service—you didn’t need a reservation ahead of time, there were no seat assignments, no check-ins, and no boarding passes. You’d show up and hop on a plane for relatively cheap. When Trump bought 17 of the company’s Boeing 727s for $365 million in 1988, “he added maple-wood veneer to the floors, chrome seat-belt latches and gold-colored bathroom fixtures.”
> 
> Apparently, customers who appreciated the service’s ease weren’t into the over-the-top makeover. Alienated customers combined with the high fuel prices of the late 80s translated to Trump Airlines never turning a profit. As _Time_explains,* “The high debt forced Trump to default on his loans, and ownership of the company was turned over to creditors. The Trump Shuttle ceased to exist in 1992 when it was merged into a new corporation, Shuttle Inc. No word on whether the gold-plated faucets survived the merger.”*
> 
> 
> *Trump Vodka
> 
> 
> View attachment 349444
> 
> *
> Launched: 2006
> 
> Service Rendered: Drunk
> 
> Years in business: 5
> 
> What went wrong: After labeling the drink as “The World’s Finest Super Premium Vodka” and proudly quintuple-distilling it in Holland from “select European wheat,” Trump was proudly telling anyone who’d listen that T&Ts (Trump and tonic) were about to become the number one drink in the country.
> 
> *Trump was supposedly attempting to rival Grey Goose for a spot on the nation’s top shelves. No one else seemed to have gotten that message, though, and the drink went out of production in 2011 when no one ever wanted to drink it. *
> 
> more failures, will continue....


Keep in mind, in 1995 the madman lost almost $1 billion and according to media reports has not paid any taxes for more than 18 years. Think about it what can this madman do to our economy, jobs, and businesses?!


*Trump Mortgage





*
Launched: 2006

Service rendered: Residential and commercial real estate financing

Years in business: 1.5

What went wrong: Even someone as deluded as Donald Trump probaby should have been able to predict this one. While the bubble hadn’t burst quite yet, in 2006, market prices were already starting to fall. And a few months after that is when Trump Mortgage decided to make its debut, with Trump telling CNBC that it was “a great time to start a mortgage company. I’ve been hearing about this bubble for so many years from you and everybody else in your world, but I haven’t seen it. I will let you know when I see it.”

 ask him about it _now__, _Trump calls the business a “tiny deal” that “he never ultimately moved forward with”—which is objectively untrue. Trump did move forward with the company, it’s just that no one wanted to follow. 


*Trump: The Game*

*



*

Launched: 1989

Service rendered: Family fun

Years in business: 1

What went wrong: In 1989, Donald Trump decided that if people love Monopoly, surely they’ll love what is essentially the same thing but Trump-themed. He convinced Milton Bradley to release the game, assuring them that this face could move 2 million units off shelves in a year.

His face, of course, could not, and the game went out of production after a year. But for the Trump purists among us, you can still buy a (lightly used version of) the game for an appropriate $69 on Amazon.


*Trump Magazine*

*



*

Launched: 2007

Service rendered: Entertainment for luxury-enthusiasts

Years in business: 2-ish

What went wrong: The magazine launched in late 2007—just after his mortgage company was forced to shut its doors. Most people might see a failing market and a just-failed business venture as a sign that maybe it’s_ not_ a great time to start a print publication dependent on a general interest in luxury goods. Donald Trump, however, is not most people. 

While the magazine “saw early success, cashing in on the booming advertising market for yachts and other high-end commodities” (at least according to the closing press release), in actuality, it... did not. As it turns out, people suffering from a major recession aren’t too keen on “yachts” or “high-end commodities” or “anything that requires money.” Who knew. 


more disasters coming, will continue.....

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## T-Rex

cleverrider said:


> What do you think, who is gonna Win? florida and north carolina?


*
Florida will go to Hillary but Trump will get North Carolina.*


----------



## ptldM3

RabzonKhan said:


> Keep in mind, in 1995 the madman lost almost $1 billion and according to media reports has not paid any taxes. Think about it what can this madman do to our economy, jobs, and businesses?!
> 
> 
> *Trump Mortgage
> 
> View attachment 349607
> 
> *
> Launched: 2006
> 
> Service rendered: Residential and commercial real estate financing
> 
> Years in business: 1.5
> 
> What went wrong: Even someone as deluded as Donald Trump probaby should have been able to predict this one. While the bubble hadn’t burst quite yet, in 2006, market prices were already starting to fall. And a few months after that is when Trump Mortgage decided to make its debut, with Trump telling CNBC that it was “a great time to start a mortgage company. I’ve been hearing about this bubble for so many years from you and everybody else in your world, but I haven’t seen it. I will let you know when I see it.”
> 
> ask him about it _now__, _Trump calls the business a “tiny deal” that “he never ultimately moved forward with”—which is objectively untrue. Trump did move forward with the company, it’s just that no one wanted to follow.
> 
> 
> *Trump: The Game*
> 
> *
> View attachment 349609
> *
> 
> Launched: 1989
> 
> Service rendered: Family fun
> 
> Years in business: 1
> 
> What went wrong: In 1989, Donald Trump decided that if people love Monopoly, surely they’ll love what is essentially the same thing but Trump-themed. He convinced Milton Bradley to release the game, assuring them that this face could move 2 million units off shelves in a year.
> 
> His face, of course, could not, and the game went out of production after a year. But for the Trump purists among us, you can still buy a (lightly used version of) the game for an appropriate $69 on Amazon.
> 
> 
> *Trump Magazine*
> 
> *
> View attachment 349610
> *
> 
> Launched: 2007
> 
> Service rendered: Entertainment for luxury-enthusiasts
> 
> Years in business: 2-ish
> 
> What went wrong: The magazine launched in late 2007—just after his mortgage company was forced to shut its doors. Most people might see a failing market and a just-failed business venture as a sign that maybe it’s_ not_ a great time to start a print publication dependent on a general interest in luxury goods. Donald Trump, however, is not most people.
> 
> While the magazine “saw early success, cashing in on the booming advertising market for yachts and other high-end commodities” (at least according to the closing press release), in actuality, it... did not. As it turns out, people suffering from a major recession aren’t too keen on “yachts” or “high-end commodities” or “anything that requires money.” Who knew.
> 
> 
> more disasters coming, will continue.....




He can not do any worse then Democrats like Obama (which Clinton was part of) which have caused more debt then all other presidents combined.


As for "mad man", the irony coming from a psychotic corporate whore that has been in support of the wars in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Lybia, Afghanistan and threatened war with Russia and China.

When the Clintons are referred to as a crime family by former FBI heads and they are under investigation more then mafia bosses, then something is terriblly wrong.

Quick Hillary should start smashing mobile devices with hammers at the state department. I wait, that already happened, quick delete thousands of emails while under subpoena. Shit already did that too, she should send Bill to talk to the attorney general, which will compromise the investigation, it's also highly immoral....darn already did that.


All it took was a pervert like weiner, well damn it. Quickly blame Russia, the KGB, and Putin.

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## T-Rex

ptldM3 said:


> He can not do any worse then Democrats like Obama (which Clinton was part of) which have caused more debt then all other presidents combined.
> 
> 
> As for "mad man", the irony coming from a psychotic corporate whore that has been in support of the wars in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Lybia, Afghanistan and threatened war with Russia and China.
> 
> When the Clintons are referred to as a crime family by former FBI heads and they are under investigation more then mafia bosses, then something is terriblly wrong.


*
The present FBI head is most probably a Russian mole that used to be a sleeping cell. *


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## ptldM3

T-Rex said:


> *The present FBI head is most probably a Russian mole that used to be a sleeping cell. *




And you're likely a moron. He is a mole for doing his job? He got much praise from the perverted Democrats (which according to weki leaks attend satanic dinners) and now that 650,000 emails from pervert weiner appear which have connections to clinton he is a Russian mole?










This next meme is factually true:

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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> Keep in mind, in 1995 the madman lost almost $1 billion and according to media reports has not paid any taxes. Think about it what can this madman do to our economy, jobs, and businesses?!
> 
> 
> *Trump Mortgage
> 
> View attachment 349607
> 
> *
> Launched: 2006
> 
> Service rendered: Residential and commercial real estate financing
> 
> Years in business: 1.5
> 
> What went wrong: Even someone as deluded as Donald Trump probaby should have been able to predict this one. While the bubble hadn’t burst quite yet, in 2006, market prices were already starting to fall. And a few months after that is when Trump Mortgage decided to make its debut, with Trump telling CNBC that it was “a great time to start a mortgage company. I’ve been hearing about this bubble for so many years from you and everybody else in your world, but I haven’t seen it. I will let you know when I see it.”
> 
> ask him about it _now__, _Trump calls the business a “tiny deal” that “he never ultimately moved forward with”—which is objectively untrue. Trump did move forward with the company, it’s just that no one wanted to follow.
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump: The Game*
> 
> *
> View attachment 349609
> *
> 
> Launched: 1989
> 
> Service rendered: Family fun
> 
> Years in business: 1
> 
> What went wrong: In 1989, Donald Trump decided that if people love Monopoly, surely they’ll love what is essentially the same thing but Trump-themed. He convinced Milton Bradley to release the game, assuring them that this face could move 2 million units off shelves in a year.
> 
> His face, of course, could not, and the game went out of production after a year. But for the Trump purists among us, you can still buy a (lightly used version of) the game for an appropriate $69 on Amazon.
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump Magazine*
> 
> *
> View attachment 349610
> *
> 
> Launched: 2007
> 
> Service rendered: Entertainment for luxury-enthusiasts
> 
> Years in business: 2-ish
> 
> What went wrong: The magazine launched in late 2007—just after his mortgage company was forced to shut its doors. Most people might see a failing market and a just-failed business venture as a sign that maybe it’s_ not_ a great time to start a print publication dependent on a general interest in luxury goods. Donald Trump, however, is not most people.
> 
> While the magazine “saw early success, cashing in on the booming advertising market for yachts and other high-end commodities” (at least according to the closing press release), in actuality, it... did not. As it turns out, people suffering from a major recession aren’t too keen on “yachts” or “high-end commodities” or “anything that requires money.” Who knew.
> 
> 
> more disasters coming, will continue.....


Just like his long list of flop businesses, his economic plan would be a disaster for the US economy...... more tax breaks for filthy rich and increase in national debt.

And that's why, three hundred and seventy economists, including eight Nobel Prize winners, co-signed a letter that asserts, "Trump is a dangerous, destructive choice for the country. He misinforms the electorate, degrades trust in public institutions with conspiracy theories, and promotes willful delusion over engagement with reality.”

Wake up people, before you lose your job, your business, your car, and your house!



*Trump Ice





*
Launched: 2004

Service rendered: Hydration

Years in business: Less than 1

What went wrong: In 2004, Donald Trump decided that people were crazy about the water available in his hotels and casinos, announcing that “it was so good that people wanted to buy cases of it.” Attempts to distribute widely failed, and the water is once again relegated to Trump’s own properties.


*The New Jersey Generals*

*



*

Owner: 1984-1985

Service rendered: Football

Years in business: 2

What went wrong: Since Trump couldn’t buy an NFL team of his own, he settled on the next best thing—the short-lived United States Football League established to challenge the NFL. Realizing he had a million other projects on his plate, though, Trump quickly sold the team only to buy them back again in the very same year.

Things only got worse from there, according to Business Insider, “The team folded one year later, in 1985, along with the entire USFL. People blamed Trump for the demise of not only the team, but the entire league. Allegedly, he was trying to pull the Generals into the NFL — and made poor investment decisions in the process.”

Talking about the ordeal now, Trump notes that he “did something I rarely do with the USFL. I went into something that was not good.” As rare as every single endeavor on this list. 



*Tour de Trump





*(Side note, listening to his BS, reminds me of his bogus election promises )


Launched: 1989

Service rendered: Bike races

Years in business: 2

What went wrong: Keeping with the theme of taking an iconic, wildly successful established tradition and turning it into a fucking mess, Donald Trump decided that he’d bring the Tour de France to us, just—you know, Trump-ier. When asked why he didn’t go with something that made sense, like the Tour de America, for instance, Trump said, “We could, if we wanted to have a less successful race. If we wanted to down-scale it.”

The first year, which sent riders from Albany to Atlantic City, actually managed to bring in some bag names, but unfortunately for Donald Trump, he just didn’t have the money to keep his name attached. Two years after starting the circuit, he was forced to sell his race to the DuPont Corporation, which then changed the name and removed every last trace of Trump. 



*Trump on the Ocean*
*



*

Launched: 2012

Service rendered: Restaurant/catering hall

Years in business: 0.3

What went wrong: Located on the boardwalk in Jones Beach, Long Island, the gargantuan dining space totaled 80,000-square-feet with a 14,000-square-foot basement, all of which we’re sure looked great for the four months before Hurricane Sandy hit. According to Eater, the state had actually shot down Trump’s proposal four separate times since 2006. Once the hurricane took down Trump, though, he agreed to kill his plan—much to the delight of the surrounding community who never wanted it there in the first place. (there you have it folks, short and stupid, disaster )


short break, business disaster will continue.......

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## T-72




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## RabzonKhan

Bill Maher does it again, super!

In his editorial New Rule, Bill thanks Trump for exposing his evangelical Christian supporters as the shameless hypocrites they've always been. 









Trump Supporter: Black People Were Better Off With Slavery





Trump Supporter: Jesus Wants Trump, No Female Leaders!





Neo-Nazi leader Andrew Anglin plans to muster thousands of poll watchers across all 50 states. His partners at the alt-right website “the Right Stuff” are touting plans to set up hidden cameras at polling places in Philadelphia and hand out liquor and marijuana in the city’s “ghetto” on Election Day to induce residents to stay home. The National Socialist Movement, various factions of the Ku Klux Klan and the white nationalist American Freedom Party all are deploying members to watch polls, either “informally” or, they say, through the Trump campaign...


----------



## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> Just like his long list of flop businesses, his economic plan would be a disaster for the US economy...... more tax breaks for filthy rich and increase in national debt.
> 
> And that's why, three hundred and seventy economists, including eight Nobel Prize winners, co-signed a letter that asserts, "Trump is a dangerous, destructive choice for the country. He misinforms the electorate, degrades trust in public institutions with conspiracy theories, and promotes willful delusion over engagement with reality.”
> 
> Wake up people, before you lose your job, your business, your car, and your house!
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump Ice
> 
> View attachment 349650
> 
> *
> Launched: 2004
> 
> Service rendered: Hydration
> 
> Years in business: Less than 1
> 
> What went wrong: In 2004, Donald Trump decided that people were crazy about the water available in his hotels and casinos, announcing that “it was so good that people wanted to buy cases of it.” Attempts to distribute widely failed, and the water is once again relegated to Trump’s own properties.
> 
> 
> *The New Jersey Generals*
> 
> *
> View attachment 349652
> *
> 
> Owner: 1984-1985
> 
> Service rendered: Football
> 
> Years in business: 2
> 
> What went wrong: Since Trump couldn’t buy an NFL team of his own, he settled on the next best thing—the short-lived United States Football League established to challenge the NFL. Realizing he had a million other projects on his plate, though, Trump quickly sold the team only to buy them back again in the very same year.
> 
> Things only got worse from there, according to Business Insider, “The team folded one year later, in 1985, along with the entire USFL. People blamed Trump for the demise of not only the team, but the entire league. Allegedly, he was trying to pull the Generals into the NFL — and made poor investment decisions in the process.”
> 
> Talking about the ordeal now, Trump notes that he “did something I rarely do with the USFL. I went into something that was not good.” As rare as every single endeavor on this list.
> 
> 
> 
> *Tour de Trump
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(Side note, listening to his BS, reminds me of his bogus election promises )
> 
> 
> Launched: 1989
> 
> Service rendered: Bike races
> 
> Years in business: 2
> 
> What went wrong: Keeping with the theme of taking an iconic, wildly successful established tradition and turning it into a fucking mess, Donald Trump decided that he’d bring the Tour de France to us, just—you know, Trump-ier. When asked why he didn’t go with something that made sense, like the Tour de America, for instance, Trump said, “We could, if we wanted to have a less successful race. If we wanted to down-scale it.”
> 
> The first year, which sent riders from Albany to Atlantic City, actually managed to bring in some bag names, but unfortunately for Donald Trump, he just didn’t have the money to keep his name attached. Two years after starting the circuit, he was forced to sell his race to the DuPont Corporation, which then changed the name and removed every last trace of Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump on the Ocean*
> *
> View attachment 349653
> *
> 
> Launched: 2012
> 
> Service rendered: Restaurant/catering hall
> 
> Years in business: 0.3
> 
> What went wrong: Located on the boardwalk in Jones Beach, Long Island, the gargantuan dining space totaled 80,000-square-feet with a 14,000-square-foot basement, all of which we’re sure looked great for the four months before Hurricane Sandy hit. According to Eater, the state had actually shot down Trump’s proposal four separate times since 2006. Once the hurricane took down Trump, though, he agreed to kill his plan—much to the delight of the surrounding community who never wanted it there in the first place. (there you have it folks, short and stupid, disaster )
> 
> short break, business disaster will continue.......


According to the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center (TPC) estimates that a plan consistent with the revised "Trump tax plan would reduce federal revenue by $6.2 trillion over the first decade of implementation and by an additional $8.9 trillion in the second decade".

"By 2024, the PWBM indicates that GDP would be smaller than it would be otherwise because growing budget deficits would push up interest rates and crowd out investment, and the *federal debt would increase by $22.1 trillion* by 2036".

Think about it people, do we really need more debt?!


*The Trump Network





*(Side note, as usual, typical BS )

Launched: 2009

Service rendered: Vitamin pyramid scheme

Years in business: 2

What went wrong: Since the folding of _Trump Magazine_ proved that people clearly didn’t have money to spare after the bubble burst, Trump decided to change strategies. With the Trump Network, Trump offered a get-rich-quick scheme centered around what else but nutritional supplements. The motto: Discover the Difference between Opportunity and Success.

The supplements came from Ideal Health, Inc, which Trump purchased in 2009. In addition to the supplements, though, Trump also offered the PrivaTest, which Trump’s site described as “a scientific window into your personal biochemistry.” A test that the Trump Network recommended be repeated every nine months for $100 a pop, which would be outrageous even if the test actually worked. But as Dr. Stephen Barrett, of health watchdog site Quackwatch, noted, “No single test can provide a rational basis for dietary supplement recommendations.”

What’s more, the company didn’t even deliver on its promised scam. A FOIA by Quackwatch in 2004 turned up the following complaint on Ideal Health filed in 2001:

The consumer states that she was working for this company trying to sell their dietary supplement products. The consumer states that she paid the company $5,412.50 for promotional leads, and marketing programs. The consumer states that the company never did the promotional leads, and took the consumers [sic] money and ran

And that’s what Donald Trump decided would be a great investment. 



*Trumped!*


Launched: 2004

Service rendered: Talk radio

Years in business: 4

What went wrong: Trump’s radio “show” was really just a two-minute-long segment (sponsored by Office Depot) of Donald Trump talking about whatever came into his head. Donald Trump, however, called it “the biggest launch in radio history.”

Buzzfeed recently tried to secure audio of the Trump’s hours of archived programs but couldn’t nail anything down but the demo. So we may never know _exactly _what Trump decided to share with the masses (since absolutely no one ever tuned in), but judging by segment descriptions such as “No More Viagra for Rapists” and “Stay out of the tabloids and, for goodness sake, don’t say hello to those little boys” (referring to Michael Jackson), it sounds like his stump speeches are the next best thing.


*
Trump New Media





*
Almost launched: 1998

Service rendered: Video-on-demand and high-speed internet

Years in business: None

What went wrong: Eager to get in on the exciting world of the information superhighway, Donald Trump was apparently about to dip his toes into the ISP world back in the summer of 1998, announcing that the newly formed Trump New Media would “wire his 20,000 residential apartments with high speed $30 monthly access.”

And sure, Trump could have gone with something vaguely within his realm of expertise—but why break with tradition? A local announcement at the time wrote that “Trump admits he’s hardly the man to head a new media firm. ‘I’ll tell you what I know about it: Absolutely nothing.’” He partnered with Freelinq Communications to launch the firm, but after getting shut out by his more competent competition, the endeavor failed to ever take off.

more business disasters will continue......it's time for

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## Desert Fox

*Hillary Clinton's Refugee Plan Will Increase Likely Hood of Terrorist Attacks On US Soil By 400%*​





*Politifact, the left-of-center mainstream media “fact-checker,” has some bad news for presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.*
Donald Trump was right when he said Hillary Clinton wants “a 500 percent increase in Syrians refugees” in his Manchester, New Hampshire speech on Monday:

Each year, the United States permanently admits more than 100,000 immigrants from the Middle East, and many more from Muslim countries outside the Middle East. Our government has been admitting ever-growing numbers, year after year, without any effective plan for our security.

In fact, Clinton’s State Department was in charge of the admissions process for people applying to enter from overseas.

*Having learned nothing from these attacks, she now plans to massively increase admissions without a screening plan, including a 500% increase in Syrian refugees. *(emphasis added)

This could be a better, bigger version of the legendary Trojan Horse.

We can’t let this happen.

Altogether, under the Clinton plan, you’d be admitting hundreds of thousands of refugees from the Middle East with no system to vet them, or to prevent the radicalization of their children.

The burden is on Hillary Clinton to tell us why she believes immigration from these dangerous countries should be increased without any effective system to screen who we are bringing in.

Politifact searched through some of Clinton’s previous statements on the issue and found this gem:

During a Sept. 20 appearance on CBS’ Face the Nation, Clinton was asked if President Barack Obama’s plan to increase the number allowed into the United States to 10,000 was enough. (The United States had accepted about 2,000 in 2015.)

“Look, we’re facing the worst refugee crisis since the end of World War II, and I think the United States has to do more, and I would like to see us move from what is a good start with 10,000 to 65,000 and begin immediately to put into place the mechanisms for vetting the people that we would take in,” Clinton said.

“A jump to 65,000 would be a 550 percent increase,” Politifact says.

Even the left-of-center Politifact was forced to rule that Trump’s statement was “mostly true.”

*Our ruling*

Trump said Clinton “plans to massively increase admissions (of Middle East refugees) … including a 500 percent increase in Syrian refugees coming into our country.”

Clinton has, in fact, said that in response to the refugee crisis she would raise Obama’s limit of 10,000 to 65,000. That’s 550 percent more, a bit higher than what Trump said. . .

Because the statement is mostly accurate but needs clarification or additional information, we rate it Mostly True.

Trump’s statement was entirely true, not merely “mostly true.”

But Politifact attempted to qualify Clinton’s claim.

“But Clinton has also made it clear that they would have to first be vetted by a screening process, an important detail in the context of Trump’s larger point that would-be terrorists have to be kept out of the country,” they wrote.

President Obama recently announced that he was accelerating the timeline for the vetting process of Syrian refugees from 18 months to three months in order to meet his target this year of 10,000 Syrian refugees resettled in the United States.

In the previous four years, slightly more than 2,300 Syrian refugees were admitted to the United States, almost all of them Muslims.

These refugees pose a public health risk as well as a security concern, and the current vetting process for both is questionable at best.

As Breitbart News reported previously, many of these refugees are arriving from Jordan, where recent medical studies have shown “[h]igh TB rates were found among Syrian refugees .”

The notion advanced by Politifact that Clinton’s caveat that these Syrian refugees “have to first be vetted by a screening process,” has no bearing on the validity of Trump’s assertion, since the current “screening process” already in place is being diminished, rather than improved by the Obama administration.

Increasing the number of Syrian refugees by another 550 percent next year, as Clinton proposes, will only make that vetting process even more of a sieve than it currently is.


----------



## LA se Karachi

ptldM3 said:


> He can not do any worse then Democrats like Obama (which Clinton was part of) which have caused more debt then all other presidents combined.




What an unbelievably foolish comment. Most of the debt that was accumulated in his term was due to George W. Bush's actions as President. Including giving tax breaks to the wealthy, starting an unnecessary and very expensive war (Iraq), removing regulations and pursuing an "easy money" monetary policy that led to the economic crash of 2008 which significantly decreased government revenue from taxation (and which also necessitated expensive stimulus packages and bailouts to recover from). Obama was left with these problems, and had to deal with them. This often entailed taking on debt. He did what he had to do.

The accumulation of government debt is an absurd way to measure the performance of a President. The country and its economy are better off than they were in 2009 when President Bush left office. Though they both still have a lot of problems.



ptldM3 said:


> As for "mad man", the irony coming from a psychotic corporate whore that has been in support of the wars in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Lybia, Afghanistan and threatened war with Russia and China.




And the irony coming from someone who hails from a country with a leader that has almost single-handedly started a pointless war in Ukraine. There is already a madman running Russia, don't worry about us.



ptldM3 said:


> When the Clintons are referred to as a crime family by former FBI heads and they are under investigation more then mafia bosses, then something is terriblly wrong.
> 
> Quick Hillary should start smashing mobile devices with hammers at the state department. I wait, that already happened, quick delete thousands of emails while under subpoena. Shit already did that too, she should send Bill to talk to the attorney general, which will compromise the investigation, it's also highly immoral....darn already did that.




Yes, the Russian political leaders never skirt the law and are far less corrupt. Lol.

In the Russian government, one doesn't even have to bother to cover up their crimes like some have to do in the US government.



ptldM3 said:


> Quickly blame Russia, the KGB, and Putin.




His comment only pointed out the many business failures of "successful businessman" Donald Trump. He made no mention of Russia. Kindly stop trying to derail the discussion. If you have nothing to constructive to add to what he posted, don't quote him.

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## Desert Fox

*Hillary Clinton's Latest Plan Would Ruin The U.S. Economy *​



*Fiscal Policy:* Hillary Clinton, sounding a populist note, says that she wants to raise tax rates on capital gains. *That would be a job-destroying disaster for both the middle class and the poor she pretends to care about. *

The details aren't all in, but it's clear Clinton wants higher taxes on capital gains as a kind of two-fer — a tax hike on the "rich" to give more money to Big Government, and more votes to her and other "inequality" warriors on the left.

An unnamed "campaign official" told the Wall Street Journal that Clinton seeks at least three new rates on capital gains, which would change based on how long a person holds the investment.

The upshot is it's a cap-gains tax hike: "The Clinton rate .. .would be higher than the 28% President Barack Obama proposed earlier this year for the highest earners," the article says, adding she may even raise the tax rate on capital gains to the same rate as regular income.

This will be sold, no doubt, on "fairness." But raising the rates on cap-gains taxes won't make our economy fairer; it will make it far less so. And it will make investment decisions more costly and complex to boot.

Start with a simple fact: Most investments are made with money that's already been taxed both at the corporate and personal level. So capital gains taxes really represent double or even triple taxation. That's unfair.

Clinton's plan is based on the idea that "short-termism" — corporations and investors focusing on the near term rather than the long term — is an evil, wreaking havoc on markets and creating volatility.

But any company that doesn't focus on quarterly results and relentless innovation in today's high-tech, digital economy is foolish — and likely to disappear. Investors channel capital to market winners, and we're all better for it. Clinton doesn't seem to understand this.

Nor does she understand that bad government policies — like higher tax rates, taxpayer bailouts for entire industries, piling up trillions of dollars in debt and putting left-wing bureaucrats in charge of Wall Street, to name just a few — are the real sources of market volatility and uncertainty. Not "short-termism."

Truth is, the U.S. already has one of the world's highest capital gains tax rates. In OECD nations, they averaged a little over 18% last year; in the U.S., the rate was 28.7%, or 58% higher.

Ironically, the so-called "Clinton boom" of the 1990s began after Hillary's husband signed a Republican measure to cut capital gains taxes. The economy took off.

Why is this important? Economic growth comes from capital. More capital means more businesses, better equipment, more jobs, higher incomes, faster economic growth and, ultimately, higher standards of living for all — including the poor and middle class.

A 2010 study by economist Allen Sinai supports this, finding a cap-gains tax hike "reduces growth in real GDP... (and) lowers employment and productivity."

It's an economic truism: When you raise taxes on anything you get less of it. Hillary Clinton's plan to hike taxes on capital is a recipe for fewer jobs, more income inequality, lower incomes and economic stagnation.

Haven't we already had that?

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## KAL-EL

Donald Trump rushed off stage by Secret Service agents in Reno Nevada because of an incident in the audience of his rally.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/secret-service-rushes-donald-trump-off-stage-at-rally-014038066.html


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## LA se Karachi

Desert Fox said:


> Ironically, the so-called "Clinton boom" of the 1990s began after Hillary's husband signed a Republican measure to cut capital gains taxes. The economy took off.




The primary beneficiaries of that "boom" were the wealthy.



Desert Fox said:


> More capital means more businesses, better equipment, more jobs, higher incomes, faster economic growth and, ultimately, higher standards of living for all* — including the poor and middle class.*




No, not at all. Economic growth does not necessarily mean rising incomes for the middle and working class as well. On the contrary, it has not for the past 40 years:










Desert Fox said:


> Hillary Clinton's plan to hike taxes on capital is a recipe for fewer jobs, more income inequality, lower incomes and economic stagnation.




Lol, nothing could be further from the truth:













Some people will never learn, will they? Insanity is sometimes defined as trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. We as a country have been part of the huge economic experiment for these last 35-40 years. And the verdict is in: lower tax rates (and stagnating wages, despite much higher productivity) equals benefit for the rich and the rich only. 

But keep voting for these policies. Ultimately, it's only you and future generations that are going to suffer. America wasn't always like this, of course.

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## T-Rex

*Trump's wife modeled in US before getting work visa, reports reveal*
*ASSOCIATED PRESS*
WASHINGTON
Published November 5, 2016




In this Nov. 3, 2016 file photo, Melania Trump, wife of Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, speaks in Berwyn, Pa. (AP Photo)
Melania Trump was paid for 10 modeling jobs in the United States worth $20,056 that occurred in the seven weeks before she had legal permission to work in the country, according to detailed accounting ledgers, contracts and related documents from 20 years ago provided to The Associated Press.

The details of Mrs. Trump's early paid modeling work in the U.S. emerged in the final days of a bitter presidential campaign in which her husband, Donald Trump, has taken a hard line on immigration laws and those who violate them. Trump has proposed broader use of the government's E-verify system allowing employers to check whether job applicants are authorized to work.

Mrs. Trump, who received a green card in March 2001 and became a U.S. citizen in 2006, has always maintained that she arrived in the country legally and never violated the terms of her immigration status.

The wife of the GOP presidential nominee has said through an attorney that she first came to the U.S. from Slovenia on Aug. 27, 1996, on a B1/B2 visitor visa and then obtained an H-1B work visa on Oct. 18, 1996.

The documents obtained by the AP show she was paid for 10 modeling assignments between Sept. 10 and Oct. 15, during a time when her visa allowed her generally to be in the U.S. and look for work but not perform paid work in the country.

It is highly unlikely the discovery will affect the citizenship status of Mrs. Trump. The government can seek to revoke the U.S. citizenship of immigrants after the fact in cases when it determines a person willfully misrepresented or concealed facts relevant to his naturalization. But it effectively does this in only the most egregious cases, such as instances involving terrorism or war crimes.

The disclosures about the payments come as Mrs. Trump takes on a more substantial role advocating for her husband's candidacy. She made her first speech in months Thursday, in which she spoke of her time working as a model in Europe and her decision to come to the U.S.

The documents obtained by the AP included ledgers, other accounting documents and a management agreement signed by Mrs. Trump from Metropolitan International Management that covered parts of 1996 and 1997. The AP obtained the files this week after seeking copies since August from employees of the now-defunct modeling firm, after Mrs. Trump made comments earlier this summer that appeared inconsistent with U.S. immigration rules.

A New York immigration lawyer whom Mrs. Trump asked to review her immigration documents, Michael J. Wildes, reviewed some of the ledgers at AP's request. Wildes said in a brief statement that "these documents, which have not been verified, do not reflect our records including corresponding passport stamps."

He did not elaborate or answer additional questions asking for clarification. Trump campaign spokeswoman Hope Hicks also did not answer additional written questions from the AP.

During the seven-week period between Mrs. Trump's arrival in the U.S. and her work visa, the ledgers list modeling work for clients that included Fitness magazine and Bergdorf Goodman department store. The management agreement, which said it was not an employment agreement, included a handwritten date of Aug. 27, 1996. The top of the document said it was "made and entered into as of this 4th day of September 1996."

Many of the documents were part of a legal dispute related to the dissolution of the firm in the late 1990s and found recently in storage. The accounting ledgers for the firm's models were listed on hundreds of pages of continuously fed paper that appeared yellowed with age. They were authenticated by a former employee who worked at the firm at the time. The employee spoke on condition of anonymity because this person feared retaliation and threats from Trump's presidential campaign.

A former partner, Paolo Zampolli, who previously told the AP that he recruited Mrs. Trump to come to the U.S. as a model, confirmed that the contract language was used by his firm and his signature appeared on the document. Mrs. Trump's signature on the contract resembled her signature on her marriage license recorded in 2005.

Asked about the two dates on the document, Zampolli said he usually vacationed in Europe each August and likely arranged for the contract to be formally executed when he returned to New York after Labor Day, even though Mrs. Trump had signed it eight days earlier.

Zampolli said the ledgers for Mrs. Trump were consistent with printouts used by his firm at the time, but he would not personally vouch for them because he said money matters were handled by the company's chief financial officer, who has since died. Zampolli said he did not recall Mrs. Trump working without legal permission.

Some ledgers were first made available to True.Ink, an online lifestyle publication, and then independently obtained and verified by the AP.

http://www.dailysabah.com/americas/...in-us-before-getting-work-visa-reports-reveal



T-Rex said:


> *Trump's wife modeled in US before getting work visa, reports reveal*
> *ASSOCIATED PRESS*
> WASHINGTON
> Published November 5, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> In this Nov. 3, 2016 file photo, Melania Trump, wife of Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, speaks in Berwyn, Pa. (AP Photo)
> Melania Trump was paid for 10 modeling jobs in the United States worth $20,056 that occurred in the seven weeks before she had legal permission to work in the country, according to detailed accounting ledgers, contracts and related documents from 20 years ago provided to The Associated Press.
> 
> The details of Mrs. Trump's early paid modeling work in the U.S. emerged in the final days of a bitter presidential campaign in which her husband, Donald Trump, has taken a hard line on immigration laws and those who violate them. Trump has proposed broader use of the government's E-verify system allowing employers to check whether job applicants are authorized to work.
> 
> Mrs. Trump, who received a green card in March 2001 and became a U.S. citizen in 2006, has always maintained that she arrived in the country legally and never violated the terms of her immigration status.
> 
> The wife of the GOP presidential nominee has said through an attorney that she first came to the U.S. from Slovenia on Aug. 27, 1996, on a B1/B2 visitor visa and then obtained an H-1B work visa on Oct. 18, 1996.
> 
> The documents obtained by the AP show she was paid for 10 modeling assignments between Sept. 10 and Oct. 15, during a time when her visa allowed her generally to be in the U.S. and look for work but not perform paid work in the country.
> 
> It is highly unlikely the discovery will affect the citizenship status of Mrs. Trump. The government can seek to revoke the U.S. citizenship of immigrants after the fact in cases when it determines a person willfully misrepresented or concealed facts relevant to his naturalization. But it effectively does this in only the most egregious cases, such as instances involving terrorism or war crimes.
> 
> The disclosures about the payments come as Mrs. Trump takes on a more substantial role advocating for her husband's candidacy. She made her first speech in months Thursday, in which she spoke of her time working as a model in Europe and her decision to come to the U.S.
> 
> The documents obtained by the AP included ledgers, other accounting documents and a management agreement signed by Mrs. Trump from Metropolitan International Management that covered parts of 1996 and 1997. The AP obtained the files this week after seeking copies since August from employees of the now-defunct modeling firm, after Mrs. Trump made comments earlier this summer that appeared inconsistent with U.S. immigration rules.
> 
> A New York immigration lawyer whom Mrs. Trump asked to review her immigration documents, Michael J. Wildes, reviewed some of the ledgers at AP's request. Wildes said in a brief statement that "these documents, which have not been verified, do not reflect our records including corresponding passport stamps."
> 
> He did not elaborate or answer additional questions asking for clarification. Trump campaign spokeswoman Hope Hicks also did not answer additional written questions from the AP.
> 
> During the seven-week period between Mrs. Trump's arrival in the U.S. and her work visa, the ledgers list modeling work for clients that included Fitness magazine and Bergdorf Goodman department store. The management agreement, which said it was not an employment agreement, included a handwritten date of Aug. 27, 1996. The top of the document said it was "made and entered into as of this 4th day of September 1996."
> 
> Many of the documents were part of a legal dispute related to the dissolution of the firm in the late 1990s and found recently in storage. The accounting ledgers for the firm's models were listed on hundreds of pages of continuously fed paper that appeared yellowed with age. They were authenticated by a former employee who worked at the firm at the time. The employee spoke on condition of anonymity because this person feared retaliation and threats from Trump's presidential campaign.
> 
> A former partner, Paolo Zampolli, who previously told the AP that he recruited Mrs. Trump to come to the U.S. as a model, confirmed that the contract language was used by his firm and his signature appeared on the document. Mrs. Trump's signature on the contract resembled her signature on her marriage license recorded in 2005.
> 
> Asked about the two dates on the document, Zampolli said he usually vacationed in Europe each August and likely arranged for the contract to be formally executed when he returned to New York after Labor Day, even though Mrs. Trump had signed it eight days earlier.
> 
> Zampolli said the ledgers for Mrs. Trump were consistent with printouts used by his firm at the time, but he would not personally vouch for them because he said money matters were handled by the company's chief financial officer, who has since died. Zampolli said he did not recall Mrs. Trump working without legal permission.
> 
> Some ledgers were first made available to True.Ink, an online lifestyle publication, and then independently obtained and verified by the AP.
> 
> http://www.dailysabah.com/americas/...in-us-before-getting-work-visa-reports-reveal


*
And this is the immigrant wife of Trump who screams about deporting immigrants.*



ptldM3 said:


> And you're likely a moron. He is a mole for doing his job?
> View attachment 349621


*
Of course moles do their jobs or else how are they going to hide their true colours? The question is how they do their job and the timing of doing certain things. Don't worry in time Comey's Russian links are going to be exposed.*

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## Devil Soul

*Pakistani American Muslims make final push for Hillary*
Home / Today's Paper / Top Story / Pakistani American Muslims make final push for Hillary
By Waseem Abbasi
November 06, 2016
Print : Top Story

0
0







WASHINGTON: As the presidential election in world’s most important country enters the final week with still no clear indication of a possible winner, Pakistani and Muslim Americans have geared up their efforts to ensure success of Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton.

Republican candidate Donald Trump’s plan to ban Muslim immigrations and his anti-Muslim rhetoric has mobilised Muslims to an unprecedented scale during the current elections doubling the number of their registered voters to more than one million, a record figure.

“This is a now or never time for us. The Muslim community has to make its presence count through the ballot,” said Saqib Nisar, a Pakistani American who is mobilising other Pakistanis in support of Hillary. “We are going door to door, mosque to mosque to ask our fellow Muslims and Pakistanis to participate in this decisive election as they will determine our rights in this great country,” he said.

The US Council of Muslim Organisations, an umbrella group of two dozen Muslim advocacy organisations announced this week that over one million American Muslims have registered to vote in the November 8 US elections.

Experts say the record registered Muslim voters may decide the race in some key battle states.

We believe we’ve exceeded the one million mark,” said Oussama Jammal, secretary general of the group. “We’ve been mobilising the community with voter registrations at mosques, schools and community events. That’s how we were able to make a difference this year." 

There is little doubt about the favourite candidate of Muslim voters. A fresh survey conducted by the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), a Washington-based advocacy organisation shows that 72 percent of registered Muslim voters planned to vote for Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton, while only 4 percent said they would cast their ballots for Trump. 

The one million voter drive was launched last December after Republican candidate Donald Trump called for “a total and complete shutdown” of Muslim immigration. To get more Muslims to vote, Muslim groups set up registration booths at more than 2,500 mosques, 500 schools and a multitude of community centers throughout the year.

“Imams have been instructed to give sermons about the importance of voting and participation in the public life," Jammal said in an interview with Voice of America here.

Speaking to The News, political expert and Associate professor at the University of Maryland Sahar Khamis said American Muslims are taking current elections very seriously and for the first time they were participating very actively in political process. “They know the importance of this election for their future,” she said.

Pakistanis are also expressing apprehensions about possible US policy for south Asian country under Trump. “Trump will be dangerous for Pakistan. No one knows his plans about the country,” said Shuja Nawaz founding director of the South Asia Center of the Atlantic Council and now a distinguished fellow at the Center. Talking to The News, he said Hillary Clinton will also be tough leader as far as Pakistan is concern as she had in past spoken about the country in tough tone. “However, Pakistani policy makers know about Hillary and they can deal with her more easily than someone who is a complete stranger”, Nawaz said. There are some 3.3 million Muslims living in America, representing roughly one percent of the US population, according to Pew Research. About 1.5 million Muslims are eligible to vote. Large numbers of Muslims live in predominantly Democratic states – California, New York and New Jersey - where Clinton is already ahead. However, there are also relatively large Muslim communities in several key battleground states - Florida, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Virginia - where polls show a tightening race. But even there, the number of Muslim voters is miniscule relative to the general electorate. Going by traditionally Muslim sounding names, CAIR estimates there are 15,000 registered Muslim voters in Pennsylvania, 25,000 in Florida and 27,000 in Michigan.

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## Desert Fox

T-Rex said:


> *Of course moles do their jobs or else how are they going to hide their true colours? The question is how they do their job and the timing of doing certain things. Don't worry in time Comey's Russian links are going to be exposed.*


Where is your proof Comey is working for Russia? If you don't have proof then please do everyone a favor and stop talking out of your @ss. Thanks.


































Devil Soul said:


> WASHINGTON: As the presidential election in world’s most important country enters the final week with still no clear indication of a possible winner, Pakistani and Muslim Americans have geared up their efforts to ensure success of Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton.


Let's see Hillary's track record with Muslims: She voted for the Iraq war ( *1 million+ dead Muslims*), she pushed for NATO intervention in Libya (*thousands of dead Muslims*), she supports the destabilization of Syria (*4 hundred thousand+ dead Muslims*). And she's promised to bomb Iran and more Muslim countries if she were President.

Yep, she's the perfect candidate for Muslims. But Donald Trump is the evil candidate because "oooh, he said some mean things"






​

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## T-Rex

Desert Fox said:


> Where is your proof Comey is working for Russia? If you don't have proof then please do everyone a favor and stop talking out of your @ss. Thanks.
> 
> View attachment 349788
> 
> View attachment 349789
> 
> View attachment 349791
> 
> 
> View attachment 349796
> 
> 
> View attachment 349794
> 
> 
> View attachment 349795
> 
> 
> View attachment 349793​
> 
> Let's see Hillary's track record with Muslims: She voted for the Iraq war ( *1 million+ dead Muslims*), she pushed for NATO intervention in Libya (*thousands of dead Muslims*), she supports the destabilization of Syria (*4 hundred thousand+ dead Muslims*). And she's promised to bomb Iran and more Muslim countries if she were President.
> 
> Yep, she's the perfect candidate for Muslims. But Donald Trump is the evil candidate because "oooh, he said some mean things"
> 
> 
> View attachment 349802
> 
> ​


*
Why didn't Comey disclose these information last year? Why three days before the election? The timing says he has ill motives. Those who say that Comey is simply doing his duty are farting with their mouth.*


----------



## Sanchez

I guess that AmerIcans would have to decide on which of the two bad guys will cause less damage of the US interests in the future.

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## Desert Fox

*John Podesta, Hillary's Head Of Campaign Linked To Occult Practices And Satan Worship*​

by Tyler Durden
Nov 5, 2016 1:20 PM
0
SHARES
   
_Submitted by Carey Wedler via TheAntiMedia.org,_

The internet was ablaze with speculation Friday morning following Wikileaks’ publication of a potentially disturbing email thread between John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman, and his brother Tony, an influential Democratic lobbyist.

In the email, *Tony asks his brother if he is able to attend a “Spirit Cooking dinner.” *He says the artist hosting the dinner, *Marina Abramovic, “wants [him] there,”* and a previous email in the thread shows the artist requesting John’s presence at her New York City home.




Abramovic, a Serbian performance artist, has apparently conducted these dinners since the 1990s. *While the title “Spirit Cooking dinner” suggests they constitute a harmless – if not spiritual — practice, some components of the “recipes” are raising alarm.*



The Podestas' "Spirit Cooking" dinner?
It's not what you think.
It's blood, sperm and breastmilk.
But mostly blood.https://t.co/gGPWFS3B2H pic.twitter.com/I43KiiraDh


— WikiLeaks (@WikiLeaks) November 4, 2016

The #Podestas' dinner "cook" Marina Abramovic on #SpiritCooking https://t.co/A1S4VrTRcW

Context: https://t.co/zQf0ZrbnWn pic.twitter.com/QF3WU2Y9or

— WikiLeaks (@WikiLeaks) November 4, 2016






_*Marina Abramovic*_​
In a video of the artist conducting a Spirit dinner in 1997, she uses a thick, red, liquid substance — bubbling at the top of a bucket — to scrawl unsettling phrases and commands on a white wall.

In a video of the artist conducting a Spirit dinner in 1997, she uses a thick, red, liquid substance — bubbling at the top of a bucket — to scrawl unsettling phrases and commands on a white wall.





*“With a sharp knife, cut deeply into the middle finger of your left hand. Eat the pain,”* one of the recipes reads.

Another calls for *breast milk and semen* to be mixed together and consumed on “earthquake nights.”

Still another reads, *“Fresh morning urine. Sprinkle on nightmare dreams.”*

*The vulgarity of these statements and others has convinced some that Abramovic and the Podestas engaged in satanic rituals. *At the very least, some recipes appear to be highly ritualistic. One advocates holding a python on one’s lap while sitting on a block of ice to fight high blood pressure.

Another says to “_[t]ake 13 leaves of uncut cabbage, 13,000 grams of jealousy. Steam for a long time in a deep iron pot until all water evaporates. Eat just before attack_.”

On the other hand, other phrases and sentences included in Spirit dinners appear to be fanciful, mystical activities — and less morbid:

*“7 days without eating. 7 days without talking. 7 days without sleeping. 7 days without sexual intercourse. 7 days not reading or writing. 7 days not watching television. 7 days not answering telephone or fax.*

*“On the 7th day, take a bath in almond oil. Eat one coriander seed. One almond. One tablespoon of honey mixed with royal jelly.”*

The recipes make frequent reference to crystals.

One recipe calls for “_3 glass of water that a ruby has been soaking in for 3 days. 1 pomegranate_.”

Another involves brushing one’s hair with a quartz brush until memories are released. Others reference tourmaline and meteorite, among other crystals.





_*John Podesta's Scarred Fingers*_​
On one hand, Abramovic is a provocative performance artist, and the extremeness of her work could easily be attributed to her offbeat take on art. She has claimed to be a mystic and that she predicted an earthquake in Italy, as well as the Pope being shot.

The _New York Times_ described her recent memoir:

“_You will need to be able to withstand a great deal of conversation about clairvoyants and tarot cards and didgeridoos and kundalini life forces and monks and gurus and ‘how the soul can leave the body through the center of the fontanel of the head’ to make it very far in this memoir._”


The _Times_ also observed that “_he likes to say things like, ‘I’m only interested in an art which can change the ideology of a society.’ Her art, judged on that scale, shrinks further in size_.”

*While the rituals she suggests performing with the Podestas are undoubtedly unsettling, they are not secretive.* The Museum of Modern Art called the recipes “_evocative instructions for actions or thoughts_,” and prints of her work are featured on their website.

However, just because the displays are in plain sight does not mean they are inherently innocent. Considering _Anti-Media_ does not have a satanic or occult specialist on staff, however, we are unable to provide insight into whether the “recipes” constitute actual satanic behavior or are simply the highly unusual expressions of an established Eastern European artist.

*One thing is clear: the Clinton campaign is attempting to distance itself from the emails and Spirit Cooking dinners.*

“_This is not the first or last time that WikiLeaks has tweeted propaganda while doing Putin’s bidding_,” _CNET_ reported the campaign said in an email, evidently continuing to invoke Cold War rhetoric to detract from Wikileaks’ publications.

*For her part, Abramovic tweeted Friday she is not a satanist (despite her Twitter handle being AbramovicM666) and asked people to enjoy art and stop asking her about politics*.

I'm not satanist!Stop it!

— Marina Abramovic (@AbramovicM666) November 4, 2016

My friends, please stop twittering me with tag spiritcooking! Just enjoy art and stop asking me about politics.

— Marina Abramovic (@AbramovicM666) November 4, 2016



This is puzzling considering she was the one who reached out to the Podestas to invite them to her dinner, though it’s unlikely she ever assumed those emails would make it into the public eye.

*Did Clinton’s campaign manager engage in satanic rituals? Were they simply spiritual? Were they the jumbled musings of an aging artist? What do you think?*


----------



## Darmashkian

Desert Fox said:


> *John Podesta, Hillary's Head Of Campaign Linked To Occult Practices And Satan Worship*​
> 
> by Tyler Durden
> Nov 5, 2016 1:20 PM
> 0
> SHARES
> _Submitted by Carey Wedler via TheAntiMedia.org,_
> 
> The internet was ablaze with speculation Friday morning following Wikileaks’ publication of a potentially disturbing email thread between John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman, and his brother Tony, an influential Democratic lobbyist.
> 
> In the email, *Tony asks his brother if he is able to attend a “Spirit Cooking dinner.” *He says the artist hosting the dinner, *Marina Abramovic, “wants [him] there,”* and a previous email in the thread shows the artist requesting John’s presence at her New York City home.
> 
> View attachment 349817​
> Abramovic, a Serbian performance artist, has apparently conducted these dinners since the 1990s. *While the title “Spirit Cooking dinner” suggests they constitute a harmless – if not spiritual — practice, some components of the “recipes” are raising alarm.*
> 
> 
> 
> The Podestas' "Spirit Cooking" dinner?
> It's not what you think.
> It's blood, sperm and breastmilk.
> But mostly blood.https://t.co/gGPWFS3B2H pic.twitter.com/I43KiiraDh
> 
> 
> — WikiLeaks (@WikiLeaks) November 4, 2016
> 
> The #Podestas' dinner "cook" Marina Abramovic on #SpiritCooking https://t.co/A1S4VrTRcW
> 
> Context: https://t.co/zQf0ZrbnWn pic.twitter.com/QF3WU2Y9or
> 
> — WikiLeaks (@WikiLeaks) November 4, 2016
> 
> 
> View attachment 349818
> 
> _*Marina Abramovic*_​
> In a video of the artist conducting a Spirit dinner in 1997, she uses a thick, red, liquid substance — bubbling at the top of a bucket — to scrawl unsettling phrases and commands on a white wall.
> 
> In a video of the artist conducting a Spirit dinner in 1997, she uses a thick, red, liquid substance — bubbling at the top of a bucket — to scrawl unsettling phrases and commands on a white wall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *“With a sharp knife, cut deeply into the middle finger of your left hand. Eat the pain,”* one of the recipes reads.
> 
> Another calls for *breast milk and semen* to be mixed together and consumed on “earthquake nights.”
> 
> Still another reads, *“Fresh morning urine. Sprinkle on nightmare dreams.”*
> 
> *The vulgarity of these statements and others has convinced some that Abramovic and the Podestas engaged in satanic rituals. *At the very least, some recipes appear to be highly ritualistic. One advocates holding a python on one’s lap while sitting on a block of ice to fight high blood pressure.
> 
> Another says to “_[t]ake 13 leaves of uncut cabbage, 13,000 grams of jealousy. Steam for a long time in a deep iron pot until all water evaporates. Eat just before attack_.”
> 
> On the other hand, other phrases and sentences included in Spirit dinners appear to be fanciful, mystical activities — and less morbid:
> 
> *“7 days without eating. 7 days without talking. 7 days without sleeping. 7 days without sexual intercourse. 7 days not reading or writing. 7 days not watching television. 7 days not answering telephone or fax.*
> 
> *“On the 7th day, take a bath in almond oil. Eat one coriander seed. One almond. One tablespoon of honey mixed with royal jelly.”*
> 
> The recipes make frequent reference to crystals.
> 
> One recipe calls for “_3 glass of water that a ruby has been soaking in for 3 days. 1 pomegranate_.”
> 
> Another involves brushing one’s hair with a quartz brush until memories are released. Others reference tourmaline and meteorite, among other crystals.
> 
> View attachment 349821
> 
> _*John Podesta's Scarred Fingers*_​
> On one hand, Abramovic is a provocative performance artist, and the extremeness of her work could easily be attributed to her offbeat take on art. She has claimed to be a mystic and that she predicted an earthquake in Italy, as well as the Pope being shot.
> 
> The _New York Times_ described her recent memoir:
> 
> “_You will need to be able to withstand a great deal of conversation about clairvoyants and tarot cards and didgeridoos and kundalini life forces and monks and gurus and ‘how the soul can leave the body through the center of the fontanel of the head’ to make it very far in this memoir._”
> 
> 
> 
> The _Times_ also observed that “_he likes to say things like, ‘I’m only interested in an art which can change the ideology of a society.’ Her art, judged on that scale, shrinks further in size_.”
> 
> *While the rituals she suggests performing with the Podestas are undoubtedly unsettling, they are not secretive.* The Museum of Modern Art called the recipes “_evocative instructions for actions or thoughts_,” and prints of her work are featured on their website.
> 
> However, just because the displays are in plain sight does not mean they are inherently innocent. Considering _Anti-Media_ does not have a satanic or occult specialist on staff, however, we are unable to provide insight into whether the “recipes” constitute actual satanic behavior or are simply the highly unusual expressions of an established Eastern European artist.
> 
> *One thing is clear: the Clinton campaign is attempting to distance itself from the emails and Spirit Cooking dinners.*
> 
> “_This is not the first or last time that WikiLeaks has tweeted propaganda while doing Putin’s bidding_,” _CNET_ reported the campaign said in an email, evidently continuing to invoke Cold War rhetoric to detract from Wikileaks’ publications.
> 
> *For her part, Abramovic tweeted Friday she is not a satanist (despite her Twitter handle being AbramovicM666) and asked people to enjoy art and stop asking her about politics*.
> 
> I'm not satanist!Stop it!
> 
> — Marina Abramovic (@AbramovicM666) November 4, 2016
> 
> My friends, please stop twittering me with tag spiritcooking! Just enjoy art and stop asking me about politics.
> 
> — Marina Abramovic (@AbramovicM666) November 4, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> This is puzzling considering she was the one who reached out to the Podestas to invite them to her dinner, though it’s unlikely she ever assumed those emails would make it into the public eye.
> 
> *Did Clinton’s campaign manager engage in satanic rituals? Were they simply spiritual? Were they the jumbled musings of an aging artist? What do you think?*


I heard that this making some religious Christians (Especially minorities) turn away from Hillary.




T-72 said:


> link ?
> 
> There is unbelievable hypocrisy in this whole Russia narrative about Trump now, 8 years ago when Obama said he wants to stop the wars the world lauded him as some sort of messiah of peace, and Trump is painted as a Russian agent as he tries to avert WW3


My exams are going on right now...will respond later.

So guy who do you think will win,Nate Silver says that Trump has a 1/3 chance of winning


----------



## Desert Fox

Darmashkian said:


> I heard that this making some religious Christians (Especially minorities) turn away from Hillary.


Even Atheists and non-religious folks are freaked out by this revelation. Who wouldn't be freaked out honestly when they're talking about consuming _"breast milk mixed with fresh semen, pigs blood and fresh morning urine"_ to gain some kind of _"spiritual advantage"_. This is some really disturbing sh!t.
_
*Here is Marina Abramovic, Podesta's close acquaintance holding *
*the famous goats head that symbolizes the occult deity the Baphomet.*_













*Here's John Podesta*










@Nilgiri @T-72 @RabzonKhan @C130 @vostok @ptldM3​
Here is more from this freak show Marina Abramovic

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## ptldM3

Desert Fox said:


> Even Atheists and non-religious folks are freaked out by this revelation. Who wouldn't be freaked out honestly when they're talking about consuming _"breast milk mixed with fresh semen, pigs blood and fresh morning urine"_ to gain some kind of _"spiritual advantage"_. This is some really disturbing sh!t.
> 
> View attachment 349824​
> View attachment 349822
> 
> 
> View attachment 349827
> 
> 
> *Here's John Podesta*
> View attachment 349825
> 
> 
> View attachment 349826
> 
> 
> @Nilgiri @T-72 @RabzonKhan @C130 @vostok @ptldM3​




I heard the news a few days ago. I don't know what to think of the Hillary camp anymore, just when you think you can't go any lower, they pull something else out of the hat. Of course none of this is hurting her, the mainstream media as we know from wekileaks is in bed with crooked Hillary. If these stories go viral it will be blamed on the Russians which has been customary by the Democraps.

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## T-72

Darmashkian said:


> My exams are going on right now...will respond later.
> 
> So guy who do you think will win,Nate Silver says that Trump has a 1/3 chance of winning


Trump seems to be surging big league, and for once it looks like he's being helped along by the MSM with their focusing on the FBI e-mail investigation in the final week of the race. All the momentum seems to be with him, he's tied in a lot of states with some polls even having him in a slim (within margin of error) lead.

Their closing messages are also a contrast with Donald being positive about where he wants to take them while she's still ranting about him being racist, sexist, xeno/islamophobe etc and blaming the FBI, a surrogate paper recently reported that the agency is 67% white male so they're out to get her. 

Trump's election will be the death of the social justice warrior movement/disease, the cultural impact will be tremendous. So, for this, and many other reasons, I hope he wins.. and it's looking quite good for now, let's see..

I don't know how it'll go, he might lose, he might win, but should he win a landslide, I won't be surprised.

good luck for you exams.

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## T-Rex

Desert Fox said:


> Even Atheists and non-religious folks are freaked out by this revelation. Who wouldn't be freaked out honestly when they're talking about consuming _"breast milk mixed with fresh semen, pigs blood and fresh morning urine"_ to gain some kind of _"spiritual advantage"_. This is some really disturbing sh!t.
> _
> *Here is Marina Abramovic, Podesta's close acquaintance with *
> *the famous goats head that symbolizes the occult deity the Baphomet.*_
> View attachment 349824​
> View attachment 349822
> 
> 
> View attachment 349827
> 
> 
> *Here's John Podesta*
> View attachment 349825
> 
> 
> View attachment 349826
> 
> 
> @Nilgiri @T-72 @RabzonKhan @C130 @vostok @ptldM3​
> Here is more from this freak show Marina Abramovic
> 
> View attachment 349829


*
And not Trump's head of campaign, Trump himself is linked to molesters club. I hear that he loves to fondle every single virgin withing his range.*


----------



## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> Even Atheists and non-religious folks are freaked out by this revelation. Who wouldn't be freaked out honestly when they're talking about consuming _"breast milk mixed with fresh semen, pigs blood and fresh morning urine"_ to gain some kind of _"spiritual advantage"_. This is some really disturbing sh!t.
> _
> *Here is Marina Abramovic, Podesta's close acquaintance with *
> *the famous goats head that symbolizes the occult deity the Baphomet.*_
> View attachment 349824​
> View attachment 349822
> 
> 
> View attachment 349827
> 
> 
> *Here's John Podesta*
> View attachment 349825
> 
> 
> View attachment 349826
> 
> 
> @Nilgiri @T-72 @RabzonKhan @C130 @vostok @ptldM3​
> Here is more from this freak show Marina Abramovic
> 
> View attachment 349829


probably just some weird edgy stuff these elites get up to, I doubt there's any real magic, more likely it's make believe drugged up orgy nonsense, the really rich and connected do this kind of stuff. What's really disturbing is the possible pedophilia links. 

disgusting people, the US people need to #DrainTheSwamp



T-Rex said:


> *And not Trump's head of campaign, Trump himself is linked to molesters club. I hear that he loves to fondle every single virgin withing his range.*


and I suppose your friend mominul told you that at the local madrassa ?

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## T-Rex

T-72 said:


> and I suppose your friend mominul told you that at the local madrassa ?


*
I didn't know that the women Trump molested went to madrasa. They all wear mini skirts. Perhaps they went to Bollywood madrasa.*


----------



## Desert Fox

ptldM3 said:


> I heard the news a few days ago. I don't know what to think of the Hillary camp anymore, just when you think you can't go any lower, they pull something else out of the hat. Of course none of this is hurting her, the mainstream media as we know from wekileaks is in bed with crooked Hillary. If these stories go viral it will be blamed on the Russians which has been customary by the Democraps.


The mainstream media will continue to ignore this due to their collusion with the Clintons, however #spiritcooking was trending on twitter and most people nowadays get their info from social media.

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## RabzonKhan

Hillary's poll numbers are on the rise again. 

Note, majority of white voters with a four-year college degree are supporting Hillary. And she leads with 18% among white woman with college degree.

In a nutshell, Hillary is the choice of educated voters, what does it tells us?!








*Hillary Clinton Leads Donald Trump by 4 Points in Latest Poll*
*Wall Street Journal/NBC poll finds 44% of likely voters support Mrs. Clinton compared with 40% support for Mr. Trump*

*



*


A significant weak spot for Mr. Trump is among college-educated white voters—a voting bloc that 2012 Republican nominee Mitt Romney won by 14 percentage points, exit polls found. Now, Mrs. Clinton leads among white voters with a four-year college degree by 7 points, 47% to 40%, on a ballot that includes third-party voters.

Among white women with a college degree, Mr. Trump is losing by an even larger margin, 18 percentage points. And by 8 points, Mr. Trump trails among suburban women, an important swing group that makes up nearly a third of the electorate.

On the other hand, Mr. Trump continues to be dominant among white voters without four-year college degrees, winning them by a margin of 57% to 25% on a ballot with third-party candidates. That 32-point edge compares with Mr. Romney’s 25-point margin in 2012.

*In one significant finding, the poll found that Mrs. Clinton leads by 12 percentage points among people who say they have already voted, likely a sign that Mrs. Clinton’s drive to get her supporters to vote early is paying off. Some 51% of early voters support Mrs. Clinton; 39% support Mr. Trump. Link*

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## Darmashkian

T-72 said:


> Trump seems to be surging big league, and for once it looks like he's being helped along by the MSM with their focusing on the FBI e-mail investigation in the final week of the race. All the momentum seems to be with him, he's tied in a lot of states with some polls even having him in a slim (within margin of error) lead.
> 
> Their closing messages are also a contrast with Donald being positive about where he wants to take them while she's still ranting about him being racist, sexist, xeno/islamophobe etc and blaming the FBI, a surrogate paper recently reported that the agency is 67% white male so they're out to get her.
> 
> Trump's election will be the death of the social justice warrior movement/disease, the cultural impact will be tremendous. So, for this, and many other reasons, I hope he wins.. and it's looking quite good for now, let's see..
> 
> I don't know how it'll go, he might lose, he might win, but should he win a landslide, I won't be surprised.
> 
> good luck for you exams.


Thanks a lot mate 
-------------------------------------------------------------
I came back to post this only
 OMG!!!


*http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...-clinton-one-state-away-from-losing-electoral*


Hillary Clinton is one state away from losing the presidential election, FiveThirtyEight's Nate Silver said Sunday.


While the Democratic presidential nominee has a 65.7 percent chance of winning the presidency on Tuesday, she is not "in a terribly safe position," the pollster said on ABC's "This Week."
"The electoral map is actually less solid for Clinton than it was for Obama four years ago," Silver said.

Silver came to notoriety by correctly predicting President Obama's victories in 2008 and 2012.

Clinton is weaker among Midwestern voters, while Obama had leads in states like Ohio.

In FiveThirtyEight's election forecast, Clinton has the 270 electoral votes needed to clinch the White House.

*"Clinton has about 270, so she's one state away from losing the Electoral College," he said. *

"You would rather be in her shoes than [Republican nominee] Donald Trump, but she's not in a terribly safe position."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/795297179384639488

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## T-72

Darmashkian said:


> Thanks a lot mate
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> I came back to post this only
> OMG!!!
> 
> 
> *http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...-clinton-one-state-away-from-losing-electoral*
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton is one state away from losing the presidential election, FiveThirtyEight's Nate Silver said Sunday.
> 
> 
> While the Democratic presidential nominee has a 65.7 percent chance of winning the presidency on Tuesday, she is not "in a terribly safe position," the pollster said on ABC's "This Week."
> "The electoral map is actually less solid for Clinton than it was for Obama four years ago," Silver said.
> 
> Silver came to notoriety by correctly predicting President Obama's victories in 2008 and 2012.
> 
> Clinton is weaker among Midwestern voters, while Obama had leads in states like Ohio.
> 
> In FiveThirtyEight's election forecast, Clinton has the 270 electoral votes needed to clinch the White House.
> 
> *"Clinton has about 270, so she's one state away from losing the Electoral College," he said. *
> 
> "You would rather be in her shoes than [Republican nominee] Donald Trump, but she's not in a terribly safe position."
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/795297179384639488


Nate Silver is a joke, look up what odds he gave Trump in the primaries, and that should be enough to disqualify him given where we are now.

Though he did also sort of predict that if a certain major league baseball team won the championship, Trump too would win the election or something 

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/politics-government/election/article112491722.html

https://www.dogonews.com/2016/11/3/...ar-championship-drought-with-world-series-win


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## Desert Fox

T-72 said:


> Trump seems to be surging big league, and for once it looks like he's being helped along by the MSM with their focusing on the FBI e-mail investigation in the final week of the race. All the momentum seems to be with him, he's tied in a lot of states with some polls even having him in a slim (within margin of error) lead.
> 
> Their closing messages are also a contrast with Donald being positive about where he wants to take them while she's still ranting about him being racist, sexist, xeno/islamophobe etc and blaming the FBI, a surrogate paper recently reported that the agency is 67% white male so they're out to get her.
> 
> Trump's election will be the death of the social justice warrior movement/disease, the cultural impact will be tremendous. So, for this, and many other reasons, I hope he wins.. and it's looking quite good for now, let's see..
> 
> I don't know how it'll go, he might lose, he might win, but if he wins in a landslide, I won't be surprised.
> 
> good luck for you exams.


Hillary has nothing new to offer for the most part, and what little she does have to offer will prove disastrous for this country which is why in all of her rallies she only bashes Trump rather than explain her strategy of which direction she wants to take America.

Regarding the FBI being against her because they're 67% White males, i believe this is the media's way of deflecting focus away from Hillary's corruption and focusing instead on race again in order to confuse the voters. One should ask why weren't they bringing up the "67% White male" theory in June when Comey absolved her? Reality is that White male or not, anyone in law enforcement hates the crooked hag for all of her corrupt dealings. I have three friends, all of them in law enforcement, one Pakistani and the other two Palestinians, and they hate the corrupt hag as well and will be voting Trump.


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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> Hillary's poll numbers are on the rise again.
> 
> Note, majority of white voters with a four-year college degree are supporting Hillary. And she leads with 18% among white woman with college degree.
> 
> In a nutshell, Hillary is the choice of educated voters, what does it tells us?!
> 
> 
> View attachment 349833
> 
> 
> 
> *Hillary Clinton Leads Donald Trump by 4 Points in Latest Poll*
> *Wall Street Journal/NBC poll finds 44% of likely voters support Mrs. Clinton compared with 40% support for Mr. Trump*
> 
> *
> View attachment 349834
> *
> 
> 
> A significant weak spot for Mr. Trump is among college-educated white voters—a voting bloc that 2012 Republican nominee Mitt Romney won by 14 percentage points, exit polls found. Now, Mrs. Clinton leads among white voters with a four-year college degree by 7 points, 47% to 40%, on a ballot that includes third-party voters.
> 
> Among white women with a college degree, Mr. Trump is losing by an even larger margin, 18 percentage points. And by 8 points, Mr. Trump trails among suburban women, an important swing group that makes up nearly a third of the electorate.
> 
> On the other hand, Mr. Trump continues to be dominant among white voters without four-year college degrees, winning them by a margin of 57% to 25% on a ballot with third-party candidates. That 32-point edge compares with Mr. Romney’s 25-point margin in 2012.
> 
> *In one significant finding, the poll found that Mrs. Clinton leads by 12 percentage points among people who say they have already voted, likely a sign that Mrs. Clinton’s drive to get her supporters to vote early is paying off. Some 51% of early voters support Mrs. Clinton; 39% support Mr. Trump. Link*





RabzonKhan said:


> Hillary's poll numbers are on the rise again.
> 
> Note, majority of white voters with a four-year college degree are supporting Hillary. And she leads with 18% among white woman with college degree.
> 
> In a nutshell, Hillary is the choice of educated voters, what does it tells us?!
> 
> 
> View attachment 349833
> 
> 
> 
> *Hillary Clinton Leads Donald Trump by 4 Points in Latest Poll*
> *Wall Street Journal/NBC poll finds 44% of likely voters support Mrs. Clinton compared with 40% support for Mr. Trump*
> 
> *
> View attachment 349834
> *
> 
> 
> A significant weak spot for Mr. Trump is among college-educated white voters—a voting bloc that 2012 Republican nominee Mitt Romney won by 14 percentage points, exit polls found. Now, Mrs. Clinton leads among white voters with a four-year college degree by 7 points, 47% to 40%, on a ballot that includes third-party voters.
> 
> Among white women with a college degree, Mr. Trump is losing by an even larger margin, 18 percentage points. And by 8 points, Mr. Trump trails among suburban women, an important swing group that makes up nearly a third of the electorate.
> 
> On the other hand, Mr. Trump continues to be dominant among white voters without four-year college degrees, winning them by a margin of 57% to 25% on a ballot with third-party candidates. That 32-point edge compares with Mr. Romney’s 25-point margin in 2012.
> 
> *In one significant finding, the poll found that Mrs. Clinton leads by 12 percentage points among people who say they have already voted, likely a sign that Mrs. Clinton’s drive to get her supporters to vote early is paying off. Some 51% of early voters support Mrs. Clinton; 39% support Mr. Trump. Link*


*Final poll: Clinton leads Trump by 3 as voters lock in *

The last *POLITICO/Morning Consult horse-race poll* before Election Day finds undecided voters making up their minds as Nov. 8 approaches. *Read more*

*

Clinton leads by five points nationally as Trump personality concerns persist, Post-ABC Tracking Poll finds  Read more*


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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> Hillary has nothing new to offer for the most part, and what little she does have to offer will prove disastrous for this country which is why in all of her rallies she only bashes Trump rather than explain her strategy of which direction she wants to take America.
> 
> Regarding the FBI being against her because they're 67% White males, i believe this is the media's way of deflecting focus away from Hillary's corruption and focusing instead on race again in order to confuse the voters. One should ask why weren't they bringing up the "67% White male" theory in June when Comey absolved her? Reality is that White male or not, anyone in law enforcement hates the crooked hag for all of her corrupt dealings. I have three friends, all of them in law enforcement, one Pakistani and the other two Palestinians, and they hate the corrupt hag as well and will be voting Trump.


wow nice 1, mashallah ! 

I've been hearing from other unlikely places too that there is a groundswell of support for Trump.

crooked Hillary, otoh, has virtually 0 independent support from any blogger/tweeter/vlogger of repute, the only people who have ever spoken up for her have been the media talking heads and big celebrities etc. I'm yet to come across a single good case for hillary, her side's entire argument begins and ends with "he's a racist kkk islamophobe..." 

low/bad/-ve energy messaging, and Trump is a master media manipulator, stole their message even, they're going low, and he's going high ! 















a Trump loss would be such an anticlimax, no way the Illuminati would break the trance now, right ?

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## RabzonKhan

A well-known progressive who supported Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primaries, the host of, The Young Turks, Cenk Uygur, has announced that he is supporting Hillary for president. 


America needs a brave leader, not bravado.

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## T-72

RabzonKhan said:


> A well-known progressive who supported Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primaries, the host of, The Young Turks, Cenk Uygur, has announced that he is supporting Hillary for president.

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## RabzonKhan

*Hillary Clinton Is Leading In A Greater Portion Of Polls Than Obama Was In The Last Two Elections*

*Things are looking good for the Democratic nominee.*

Hillary Clinton has consistently led in a greater portion of presidential polls in the two months heading into Election Day than President Barack Obama did in both 2008 and 2012. 

*The Democratic nominee is ahead of GOP nominee Donald Trump in 93 percent of polls conducted in the two months before Election Day. Trump leads in just 3 percent of the polls. Another 3 percent of polls show a tied race. *

The ratio of the surveys she leads in is slightly less when polls with third-party candidates are analyzed.

Overall, these statistics reflect a greater level of certainty of Clinton’s position as the leader than was present for Obama in 2008 and 2012. Obama led in 83 percent of polls against Sen. John McCain, who led in 11 percent, in 2008. The 2012 race was closer and that uncertainty was reflected in the lower ratio of polls Obama led to former Gov. Mitt Romney: 62 percent to 26 percent. 






*Read more*

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## RabzonKhan

T-72 said:


>


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## C130

Desert Fox said:


> Even Atheists and non-religious folks are freaked out by this revelation. Who wouldn't be freaked out honestly when they're talking about consuming _"breast milk mixed with fresh semen, pigs blood and fresh morning urine"_ to gain some kind of _"spiritual advantage"_. This is some really disturbing sh!t.
> _
> *Here is Marina Abramovic, Podesta's close acquaintance holding *
> *the famous goats head that symbolizes the occult deity the Baphomet.*_
> View attachment 349824​
> View attachment 349822
> 
> 
> View attachment 349827
> 
> 
> *Here's John Podesta*
> View attachment 349825
> 
> 
> View attachment 349826
> 
> 
> @Nilgiri @T-72 @RabzonKhan @C130 @vostok @ptldM3​
> Here is more from this freak show Marina Abramovic
> 
> View attachment 349829




the NWO elites are heavily into satanism and pedophilia.

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## T-72

RabzonKhan said:


> huffingtonpost

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## RabzonKhan

"Once the lawsuit hit, state education officials started hammering the school for operating under the name “university,” since it was never chartered as such and was operating as an “illegal educational institution.” So that same year, Trump changed the name to the Trump Entrepreneur Initiative. Already outed as a fraud, though, the business shut down a year later."


*Trump University
*







Launched: 2005

Service rendered: For-profit, non-accredited fake business degrees

Years in business: 6

What went wrong: For a “school” that can’t actually give you any sort of recognized degree, $35,000 is a hell of a lot of money to spend on tuition. Especially when that school, according to the lawsuit four students filed against the business in 2010, consists of classes described as “extended infomercials,” sells “non-accredited products,” and takes “advantage of these troubled economic times to prey on consumer’s fears.”







Once the lawsuit hit, state education officials started hammering the school for operating under the name “university,” since it was never chartered as such and was operating as an “illegal educational institution.” So that same year, Trump changed the name to the Trump Entrepreneur Initiative. Already outed as a fraud, though, the business shut down a year later.

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## LA se Karachi

T-72 said:


>




The Huffington Post has a very respectable polling aggregate arm. It has nothing to do with their writers. They put out an election forecast based on polls conducted by reputable pollsters.

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## RabzonKhan

*TRUMP UNIVERSITY: IT’S WORSE THAN YOU THINK*




RabzonKhan said:


> "Once the lawsuit hit, state education officials started hammering the school for operating under the name “university,” since it was never chartered as such and was operating as an “illegal educational institution.” So that same year, Trump changed the name to the Trump Entrepreneur Initiative. Already outed as a fraud, though, the business shut down a year later."
> 
> 
> *Trump University
> *
> 
> View attachment 349859
> 
> 
> 
> Launched: 2005
> 
> Service rendered: For-profit, non-accredited fake business degrees
> 
> Years in business: 6
> 
> What went wrong: For a “school” that can’t actually give you any sort of recognized degree, $35,000 is a hell of a lot of money to spend on tuition. Especially when that school, according to the lawsuit four students filed against the business in 2010, consists of classes described as “extended infomercials,” sells “non-accredited products,” and takes “advantage of these troubled economic times to prey on consumer’s fears.”
> 
> View attachment 349860
> 
> 
> 
> Once the lawsuit hit, state education officials started hammering the school for operating under the name “university,” since it was never chartered as such and was operating as an “illegal educational institution.” So that same year, Trump changed the name to the Trump Entrepreneur Initiative. Already outed as a fraud, though, the business shut down a year later.


Hillary is absolutely right for calling Trump a “fraud” who is “trying to scam America the way he scammed all those people at Trump University.” 
*

TRUMP UNIVERSITY: IT’S WORSE THAN YOU THINK
*
Following the release, earlier this week, of testimony filed in a federal lawsuit against Trump University, the United States is facing a high-stakes social-science experiment. Will one of the world’s leading democracies elect as its President a businessman who founded and operated a for-profit learning annex that some of its own employees regarded as a giant ripoff, and that the highest legal officer in New York State has described as a classic bait-and-switch scheme?

If anyone still has any doubt about the troubling nature of Donald Trump’s record, he or she should be obliged to read the affidavit of Ronald Schnackenberg, a former salesman for Trump University. Schnackenberg’s testimony was one of the documents unsealed by a judge in the class-action suit, which was brought in California by some of Trump University’s disgruntled former attendees.

*Schnackenberg, who worked in Trump’s office at 40 Wall Street, testified that “while Trump University claimed it wanted to help consumers make money in real estate, in fact Trump University was only interested in selling every person the most expensive seminars they possibly could.” The affidavit concludes, “Based upon my personal experience and employment, I believe that Trump University was a fraudulent scheme, and that it preyed upon the elderly and uneducated to separate them from their money.”*

In one sense, the latest revelations don’t break much new ground. Back in 2013, when the office of Eric Schneiderman, New York’s Attorney General, filed a civil lawsuit against Trump and some of his associates, the complaint, which is also worth reading in full, made perfectly clear what sort of organization it was targeting. Despite Trump University’s claim that it offered “graduate programs, post graduate programs, doctorate programs,” it wasn’t a university at all. It was a company that purported to be selling Trump’s secret insights into how to make money in real estate. From the time Trump University began operating, in 2005, the A.G.’s office repeatedly warned the company that it was breaking the law by calling itself a university. (In New York State, universities have to obtain a state charter.)

That was the bait—or, rather, the initial bait. According to the Attorney General’s complaint, the free classes were merely a marketing device. There, Trump University’s instructors “engaged in a methodical, Systematic Series of misrepresentations” designed to convince students to sign up for a three-day seminar, where they would learn Trump’s personal techniques and strategies for investing, at a cost of about fifteen hundred dollars.

When it began, Trump University offered online classes, but it quickly switched its focus to live classes and seminars, the first of which was free to attend. One of the company’s ads said of Trump, “He’s the most celebrated entrepreneur on earth. . . . And now he’s ready to share—with Americans like you—the Trump process for investing in today’s once-in-a-lifetime real estate market.” The ad said that Trump had “hand-picked” Trump University’s instructors, and it ended with a quote from him: “I can turn anyone into a successful real estate investor, including you.”

*In fact, Trump hadn’t handpicked the instructors, and he didn’t attend the three-day seminars. Moreover, the complaint said, “no specific Donald Trump techniques or strategies were taught during the seminars, Donald Trump ‘never’ reviewed any of Trump University’s curricula or programming materials, nor did he review any of the content for the free seminars or the three day seminars.” So what were the attendees taught? According to the complaint, “the contents and material presented by Trump University were developed in large part by a third-party company that creates and develops materials for an array of motivational speakers and Seminar and timeshare rental companies.” The closest that the attendees at the seminars got to Trump was when they were encouraged to have their picture taken with a life-size photo of him.*

*The alleged scam didn’t stop there. Trump University instructors told people who attended the three-day seminars that this wasn’t enough time to learn how to succeed, and encouraged them to purchase additional “mentorship” programs, which cost up to thirty-five thousand dollars. The complaint explained,*

This bait and switch was laid out in the Trump University Playbook (“Playbook”), which provided step-to-step directions to Trump University instructors on what to tell students during the seminars. . . . Trump University instructors and staff were given detailed guidance as to how to build rapport and approach consumers one-on-one to encourage further purchases. Trump University representatives were explicitly instructed to push the highest priced Elite programs. Even when students hesitated to purchase the expensive programs, Trump representatives were provided stock responses to encourage purchases, including encouraging students to go into debt to pay for the Elite programs.

The newly released documents, which included actual Trump University playbooks (one was also uncovered by Politico earlier this year), provide more detail about the sales tactics that its employees used. Some of these methods, such as encouraging customers to max out their credit cards and playing psychological tricks on them, are familiar from the world of time-shares and other dodgy industries. “If they can afford the gold elite don’t allow them to think about doing anything besides the gold elite,” one of the playbooks advised the sales staff. At another point, the manual said, “Don’t ask people what they think about something you’ve said. Instead, always ask them how they feel about it. People buy emotionally and justify it logically.”

told the _Times_ that other testimony in the California case had discredited the charges made by former employees. Hope Hicks, Trump’s campaign spokesperson, said that he was looking forward to his day in court.

So far, though, Trump has failed in his efforts to have the lawsuits in California and New York thrown out. And, whatever happens to the legal cases, the allegations will dog him all the way to November. On Wednesday, Hillary Clinton offered a preview of what is to come, calling Trump a “fraud” who is “trying to scam America the way he scammed all those people at Trump University.”

The Clinton campaign is clearly hoping that Trump University will be to Trump as Bain Capital was to Mitt Romney—a way to portray him as just another selfish rich guy who is out to profit at the expense of ordinary folk. Commenting on Twitter, Clinton’s press secretary, Brian Fallon, wrote, “Trump U is devastating because it’s metaphor for his whole campaign: promising hardworking Americans way to get ahead, but all based on lies.”

So will Trump University be the thing that brings Trump down? In a post for _The New Republic_, Brian Beutler argued that it will be “devastating” to him. On my Twitter feed, some people reacted more skeptically, pointing out that many of Trump’s supporters appear oblivious to any criticisms of him, and that Clinton isn’t necessarily the ideal prosecutor. It is also worth recalling that, in Italy, Silvio Berlusconi, another populist businessman, served as Prime Minister four times despite a list of allegations against him that included bribery, tax evasion, sexual misconduct, and having ties to the mafia.

One thing is clear, though. If the revelations about Trump University _don’t_ do any damage to Trump, it’s time to worry—or worry even more—about American democracy.* Link*

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## jha

Looks like, a speaker at Hillary's rally trashed her policies... " t*here was no point in voting for the "lesser of two evils.*"

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## RabzonKhan

*DONALD TRUMP'S MANY BUSINESS FAILURES, EXPLAINED*

In that 2007 deposition, Trump said he based estimates of his net worth at times on “psychology” and “my own feelings.” But those feelings are often wrong—in 2004, he presented unaudited financials to Deutsche Bank while seeking a loan, claiming he was worth $3.5 billion. The bank concluded Trump was, to say the least, puffing; it put his net worth at $788 million, records show. (Trump personally guaranteed $40 million of the loan to his company, so Deutsche coughed up the money. He later defaulted on that commitment.)

*Dependent on Daddy*

When he was ready for college, Trump wanted to be a movie producer, perhaps the first sign that he was far more interested in the glitz of business than the nuts and bolts. He applied to the University of Southern California to pursue a film career, but when that didn’t work out, he attended Fordham University; two years later, he transferred to the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania and got a degree in economics.

*Trump boasted when he announced his candidacy last year that he had made his money “the old-fashioned way,” but he is no Bill Gates or Michael Bloomberg, self-made billionaires who were mavericks, innovators in their fields. Instead, the Republican nominee’s wealth is Daddy-made. Almost all of his best-known successes are attributable to family ties or money given to him by his father.
*
The son of wealthy developer Fred Trump, he went to work for his father’s real estate business immediately after graduating from Wharton and found some success by taking advantage of his father’s riches and close ties to the power brokers in the New York Democratic Party, particularly his decades-long friend Abe Beame, the former mayor of the city.

Even with those advantages, a few of Trump’s initial deals for his father were busts, based on the profits. His first project was revitalizing the Swifton Village apartment complex in Cincinnati, which his father had purchased for $5.7 million in 1962. *After Trump finished his work, they sold the complex for $6.75 million, which, while appearing to be a small return, was a loss; *in constant dollars, the apartment buildings would have had to sell for $7.9 million to have earned an actual profit. Still, Trump happily boasted about his supposed success with Swifton Village and about his surging personal wealth. (Donnie, failed again )

He already ached to be part of the Manhattan elite rather than just be known as the son of a Brooklyn developer. So, in 1970, he took another shot at joining the entertainment business by investing $70,000, to snag a co-producer’s credit for a Broadway comedy called _Paris Is Out! _Once again, *Trump failed; the play bombed, closing after just 96 performances.* (yeah, he's going to make America great again ) *Link*

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## RabzonKhan

Breaking news...



*FBI clears Clinton in latest email review two days before election
*
By Alana Wise and John Whitesides | WASHINGTON 11/06/2016

*The FBI said on Sunday it still believed no charges were warranted against Democrat Hillary Clinton after finishing its review of newly discovered emails related to her private server, lifting a cloud over her presidential campaign two days before the U.S. election.*

FBI Director James Comey made the announcement in a letter to Congress on Sunday, saying the agency had not changed its conclusions from July that no criminal charges were warranted against Clinton for her use of a private email server for government work.

"The FBI investigative team has been working around the clock to process and review a large volume of emails from a device obtained in connection with an unrelated criminal investigation," Comey said in the letter.

"During that process, we reviewed all of the communications that were to or from Hillary Clinton while she was secretary of state."

A law enforcement source told Reuters the conclusion closes for now the FBI probe of the former secretary of state's email practices.

Comey had informed Congress of the newly discovered emails more than a week ago, throwing the race for the White House into turmoil and eroding Clinton's lead over Republican candidate Donald Trump in the final stretch before Tuesday's vote.

"I am very grateful to the professionals at the FBI for doing an extraordinary amount of high-quality work in a short period of time," Comey said.

Clinton communications director Jennifer Palmieri told reporters aboard Clinton's campaign plan that, "We are glad the matter is resolved." *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> *DONALD TRUMP'S MANY BUSINESS FAILURES, EXPLAINED*
> 
> In that 2007 deposition, Trump said he based estimates of his net worth at times on “psychology” and “my own feelings.” But those feelings are often wrong—in 2004, he presented unaudited financials to Deutsche Bank while seeking a loan, claiming he was worth $3.5 billion. The bank concluded Trump was, to say the least, puffing; it put his net worth at $788 million, records show. (Trump personally guaranteed $40 million of the loan to his company, so Deutsche coughed up the money. He later defaulted on that commitment.)
> 
> *Dependent on Daddy*
> 
> When he was ready for college, Trump wanted to be a movie producer, perhaps the first sign that he was far more interested in the glitz of business than the nuts and bolts. He applied to the University of Southern California to pursue a film career, but when that didn’t work out, he attended Fordham University; two years later, he transferred to the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania and got a degree in economics.
> 
> *Trump boasted when he announced his candidacy last year that he had made his money “the old-fashioned way,” but he is no Bill Gates or Michael Bloomberg, self-made billionaires who were mavericks, innovators in their fields. Instead, the Republican nominee’s wealth is Daddy-made. Almost all of his best-known successes are attributable to family ties or money given to him by his father.
> *
> The son of wealthy developer Fred Trump, he went to work for his father’s real estate business immediately after graduating from Wharton and found some success by taking advantage of his father’s riches and close ties to the power brokers in the New York Democratic Party, particularly his decades-long friend Abe Beame, the former mayor of the city.
> 
> Even with those advantages, a few of Trump’s initial deals for his father were busts, based on the profits. His first project was revitalizing the Swifton Village apartment complex in Cincinnati, which his father had purchased for $5.7 million in 1962. *After Trump finished his work, they sold the complex for $6.75 million, which, while appearing to be a small return, was a loss; *in constant dollars, the apartment buildings would have had to sell for $7.9 million to have earned an actual profit. Still, Trump happily boasted about his supposed success with Swifton Village and about his surging personal wealth. (Donnie, failed again )
> 
> He already ached to be part of the Manhattan elite rather than just be known as the son of a Brooklyn developer. So, in 1970, he took another shot at joining the entertainment business by investing $70,000, to snag a co-producer’s credit for a Broadway comedy called _Paris Is Out! _Once again, *Trump failed; the play bombed, closing after just 96 performances.* (yeah, he's going to make America great again ) *Link*


*Donald Trump’s Income Isn’t Always What He Says It Is, Records Suggest*

On the financial disclosure forms that Donald J. Trump has pointed to as proof of his tremendous success, no venture looks more gold-plated than his golf resort in Doral, Fla., *where he reported revenues of $50 million in 2014. That figure accounted for the biggest share of what he described as his income for the year.*

But this summer, a considerably different picture emerged in an austere government hearing room in Miami, where Mr. Trump’s company was challenging the resort’s property tax bill.

*Mr. Trump’s lawyer handed the magistrate an income and expense statement showing that the gross revenue had indeed been $50 million. But after paying operating costs, the resort had actually lost $2.4 million. *

Mr. Trump has repeatedly held out his financial disclosures as a justification for breaking with tradition and refusing to release his personal tax returns. “You don’t learn that much from tax returns,” he said in September during his first debatewith Hillary Clinton. “You learn a lot from financial disclosure. And you should go down and take a look at that.”

But an examination of his tax appeals on several properties, and other documents obtained by The New York Times through Freedom of Information requests, shows that what Mr. Trump has reported on those forms is nowhere near a complete picture of his financial state.

The records demonstrate that large portions of those numbers represent cash coming into his businesses before covering costs like mortgage payments, payroll and maintenance. After expenses, some of his businesses make a small fraction of what he reported on his disclosure forms, or actually lose money. In fact, it is virtually impossible to determine from the forms just how much he is earning in any year.

Mr. Trump appears to have used a provision in federal ethics laws that allows business owners to list gross revenue, as opposed to net income after expenses, on their disclosure forms. But he does not seem to have completely acknowledged that choice. Rather, he has suggested that the figures on the form represent money in his pocket.

*In news releases, the Trump campaign said that “Mr. Trump’s income” listed in a disclosure form filed last year was $362 million, and was more than $557 million in a form filed this year. During the debate with Mrs. Clinton in September, he mentioned an even larger figure.*

*“It shows income … in fact, the income — I just looked today — the income is filed at $694 million for this past year, $694 million,” Mr. Trump said. “If you would have told me I was going to make that 15 or 20 years ago, I would have been very surprised.”*

A spokeswoman for Mr. Trump, Hope Hicks, declined to answer questions about how Mr. Trump had reported his income, saying only that his disclosure form “speaks for itself.”

*Another seeming cash cow, at least as far as the forms portray it, is 40 Wall Street, an office building Mr. Trump has spoken of as perhaps the greatest bargain he ever struck. “I make approximately $20 million a year in rentals from 40 Wall Street and the building is now worth $500 million,” Mr. Trump wrote in “Trump Never Give Up,” published in 2008. *“So, aside from owning the most beautiful building in Lower Manhattan, I have the added attraction of making a profit.”

*On his financial disclosure forms, Mr. Trump listed the income he derived from rents in the building in the highest category on the form — more than $5 million. *(The form requires listing monetary ranges for most types of income, and precise dollar figures where the gross revenue of a business is provided.)

*But the income and expense statement that he filed with the New York City Tax Commission to appeal his property taxes shows that after mortgage payments and other costs, the building produced a cash flow of about $104,000 in 2014. Over the previous three years, it had generated a negative cash flow of $5.5 million, as the fallout of the 2008 financial crisis took a toll on downtown office buildings. Read more*


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## jha

Apparently Clinton's name has been cleared in the email scandal. Again..


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## Meengla

There is no question about that the MSM has steered the elections toward Hillary. Not that I'd ever vote for Trump--and that's not because he's 'Anti Muslim' or 'Anti Latino' etc. But because Trump is a SPOILED BRAT! Any person who's never had to face the consequences of his/her actions or felt pressured to use his/her brain is a dangerous human being. A lose Cannon. We have our own such in Pakistan--if you know what I mean 


I wouldn't trust my cow to Donald Trump.

Now to Hillary. Getting away from Libya and Syria fiascos by the same media which, rightly, lynched G.W.Bush for Iraq. If I HAD to pick between the two, I'd pick Hillary. *But luckily, there's Jill Stein--the Green Party candidate. Yes, a vote lost while my conscience wins.*

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Hillary's poll numbers are on the rise again.
> 
> Note, majority of white voters with a four-year college degree are supporting Hillary. And she leads with 18% among white woman with college degree.
> 
> In a nutshell, Hillary is the choice of educated voters, what does it tells us?!


Another feel good rigged poll huh? 

Enjoy:

Most College Graduates Can't Find Jobs

College Grads Are Still Hurting Over Debt And Joblessness

*So Hillary gets most of her support from the least productive segments of society* . Great to know @RabzonKhan



RabzonKhan said:


> Hillary is the choice of educated voters



You mean for people with useless college degrees like "gender studies" and "humanities" lmao!! What kind of jobs can you get with those degrees? No wonder these people are jobless and unproductive. 

*Meanwhile Trump has the endorsement and support from major Law Enforcement members and agencies, retired soldiers, generals, medal of honor recipients; ie people who actually contribute[d] to the well being of the entire country and made actual sacrifices.*


Typical Hillary supporter:


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## Hassan_Ishtiaq

Desert Fox said:


> View attachment 349883​


cringe worthy

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## Desert Fox

*Jill Stein: Trump Is Less Dangerous Than Clinton; She Will Start Nuclear War With Russia*​http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...d_syria_policy_could_start_a_nuclear_war.html
*



*​
Green party presidential candidate Jill Stein says Donald Trump is less scary on foreign wars, because he wants to work with Russia.


JILL STEIN: It's important to look at where we are going. It's not just a moment in time, but where has the strategy of voting for the lesser evil taken us? 

All these times you have been told to vote for the lesser evil because you didn't want the wars, or the meltdown of the climate, or the offshoring of our jobs, or the attack on immigrants, or the massive bailout for Wall Street, but that is actually what we have gotten. By the droves. 

Because we with public interest allow ourselves to be silent, and voted for the lesser evil. But the lesser evil doesn't solve the problem. 

The Obama administration, even with both houses of Congress, actually did all of these fossil fuel emissions. "All of the above" gave us some renewable energy but it completely amplified and intensified our carbon production, which has been incredibly destructive to the climate. 

The wars have gotten bigger, we are now bombing seven countries.

It is important to not just look at the rhetoric but also look at the track record and the reality is the lesser people and greater people is a race to the bottom, and even Donald Trump in the right wing extremism grows out of the policies of the Clintons, in particular Nafta, which sent our jobs overseas and Wall Street deregulation, which blew 9 million jobs up into smoke. 

That is what is creating this right wing extremism. A vote for Hillary Clinton isn't going to fix it...

It is now Hillary Clinton that wants to start an air war with Russia over Syria by calling for a no fly zone. 

We have 2000 nuclear missiles on hairtrigger alert. They are saying we are closer to a nuclear war than we have ever been. 

Under Hillary Clinton, we could slide into nuclear war very quickly from her declared policy in Syria. 

I sure won't sleep well at night if Donald Trump is elected, but I sure won't sleep well at night if Hillary Clinton elected. We have another choice other than these two candidates who are both promoting lethal policies. 

On the issue of war and nuclear weapons, it is actually Hillary's policies which are much scarier than Donald Trump who does not want to go to war with Russia. 

He wants to seek modes of working together, which is the route that we need to follow not to go into confrontation and nuclear war with Russia.



Hassan_Ishtiaq said:


> cringe worthy


That's the average Hillary supporter for you, the so called "educated" types according to our friend @RabzonKhan


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## Hassan_Ishtiaq

Desert Fox said:


> That's the average Hillary supporter for you, the so called "educated" types according to our friend @RabzonKhan


if that's considered educated then i honestly feel bad for America. No wonder you guys have the two worse presidential candidates in history of US elections.


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## Desert Fox

This is too funny, crooked hag Hillary had to use a rapper to attract thousands of people to a free concert, and still a low turnout compared to Trump's rally  Also, Jay-Z raps about "banging hoe's", "f*cking mothers" and "pimping" while Beyonce dresses up like a whore and Hillary embraces them both at the end. And yet she says Trump "degrades women". @Nilgiri @T-72 @C130 @boomslang @Falcon29

*Hillary Uses Jay-Z To Attract People To Rally With Free Tickets, Turnout Still Low Compared To Trump Rally*​




*Donald Trump clobbered Hillary Clinton on Saturday morning for appearing with Jay-Z in Cleveland*

*The rapper dropped one F-bomb and N-word after another, and then Hillary embraced him onstage*




*Clinton has been openly critical of Trump's 'tone' and the 'lewd' language he has used in the past*

*'I tell you what: I've never said what he said – in my life!' Trump declared in Tampa, Florida*

*Clinton held her campaign rally with Jay-Z and Beyoncé, drawing 10,000 people with free tickets*

*Many of them exited before Clinton spoke, and Trump drew a larger crowd by himself in Pennsylvania*

*He told a crowd in the town of Hershey: 'I'm here all by myself... No guitar, no piano, no nothing'*
Donald Trump mocked Hillary Clinton on Saturday for appearing alongside Jay-Z on a Cleveland, *Ohio concert stage after the music superstar dropped F-bombs and rapped with N-word after N-word.*

'I actually like Jay-Z. But you know, the language last night! Ohhh! Ooooh!' Trump said in Tampa, Florida. 'Maybe I'll just try it. Should I use that language? Can you imagine if I said that?'

'So he used every word in the book,' the Republican presidential nominee fumed. 'I won't even use the initials, because I'd get in trouble. It'll get me in trouble. He used every word in the book last night.'

'I tell you what: I've never said what he said – in my life!'

The rapper's repertoire Friday night included his hit 'F**kWithMeYouKnowIGotIt.'

He also performed a song called *'Jigga My N***a,' including a line that declared: '[I'm] Jay-Z, motherf***er!'*

As he took the stage, a PA announcer blared: *'You're tuned into the motherf**king greatest!'*

One portion of his rap included the lyrics: *'If you feelin' like a pimp n***a, go and brush your shoulders off.'*

*'Ladies is pimps too, go and brush your shoulders off. N***a is crazy,* baby, don't forget that boy told you. Get that dirt off your shoulders.'

After telling the audience that 'we're stronger together,' echoing Clinton's campaign slogan, he called her presidential bid 'historic – this is a moment in time.

Then minutes later he shifted gears and rapped, * 'I don't f**k with you. You little stupid-a*s b**ch, I ain't f**kin' with you.*'

Jay-Z said onstage after he was done performing: 'Ohio, we are on the doorstep of history. I am here tonight because respect matters. Respect matters to me.'

*Trump also mocked Clinton on Saturday morning for drawing a smaller crowd than his own on Friday night, despite having both Jay-Z and his wife Beyoncé at her side.*

The trio attracted 10,000 people – *many of whom filed out after the concert and before the Democratic nominee took the stage. *

*'We don't need Jay-Z to fill up arenas. We do it the old-fashioned way, folks,' Trump said. 'We fill it up because you love what we're saying and you want to make America great again.'*

As Clinton was trying to rally Ohioans with star power, *Trump attracted a larger crowd on his own in Hershey, Pennsylvania.*

*The local fire department estimated Trump's crowd at 11,500. Reports from outside describe an additional 3,000 people who arrived too late to get through Secret Service screening in time to hear the rally*.

Trump, as he frequently does, inflated his crowd-count for dramatic effect.

In Hershey, Pennsylvania last night we had an arena. We had 27,000 people show up!' he said.

Whatever the real number was, Trump gloated that his audience was bigger that Clinton's

'Jay-Z! They got free tickets – free tickets! ... and Beyoncé, and I like them both.'

But he had 'far more' people on his own, he said.

The Republican's Tampa stop was the first in a four-rally day that will cover four swing states and more than 4,400 miles of travel.

After southwestern Florida he goes to Wilmington, North Carolina, and then flies clear across the country for a rally in Reno, Nevada.

His plane then heads to Denver for a 9:30 p.m. rally. That's nearly midnight on the east coast.

Sunday will bring more fireworks with 11th-hour campaign events in Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania – and schedulers could still add an evening stop in Virginia.

Monday's schedule calls for Florida, North Carolina and New Hampshire before the campaign winds down and Trump wakes up to vote Tuesday morning in New York City.

Trump's warmup acts included comedian and former Saturday Night Live actor Joe Piscopo, and retired college football coach Lou Holtz. Both made surprise appearances.

'We're ready to send a message to politicians that we're ready to take our country back,' said Piscopo, 65.

'I am not drinking the Kool-Aid here ... It's the machine against the masses [and] the rigged against the respectful.'

Holtz said Florida's electoral votes will determine the outcome of Tuesday's presidential election.

'The future of this country rests with the people of this state,' he said.

'Donald Trump can change the direction of this country, and God knows we need it.'

Holtz, an ardent Roman Catholic who rose to fame coaching at the University of Notre Dame, blasted Clinton for her pro-abortion position, saving special scorn for her refusal to condemn late-term abortions.

'She's for late-term abortion – the day before the baby's being born!' Holtz claimed.

'If I destroy an eagle egg, I can go to jail! Who's going to speak for an unborn child?'

In case the biggest stars in rap aren't enough to get her supporters' attention, Clinton will campaign with hoops star LeBron James in Cleveland on Sunday, her campaign announced.

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## Desert Fox

Hassan_Ishtiaq said:


> if that's considered educated then i honestly feel bad for America. No wonder you guys have the two worse presidential candidates in history of US elections.


Trump is a safe bet than Hillary. All of her proposed policies are just amplified versions of Obama's disastrous policies. She's only going to do what Obama did but on a much larger scale.

*Hillary is going to bomb Syria's legitimate secular government and thus help ISIS, thus completing Obama's mission in Syria.*

*Trump's strategy is to work with the Russians to fight ISIS (the very ISIS that conducted terrorist attacks all throughout America and Europe) to fight a common threat of terrorism.*

*Hillary will then start a nuclear war with Russia over some "moderate" terrorists in Syria. (Her Syrian strategy involves imposing a no-fly-zone on the Russian Air Force there).*

*Trump opposes funding and arming the "moderate" terrorists because most of them aren't moderate at all and have questionable allegiances, as has been proven by countless intelligence sources. He wants to work with the Russians.*

*Hillary will increase Obama's Syrian refugee intake by 550%, right after bombing them some more first, so that this way when we take them in they will harbor desire for revenge against the average American, thus ensuring an increase in terrorist attacks on American soil.*

*Trump wants the Saudis to pick up the slack and do their share by taking in Syrian refugees (Saudi Arabia has not taken in a single Syrian refugee despite close geographic proximity, similar religion and culture and ethnicity as Syrians, yet they fund ISIS and "moderate" terrorists in Syria). *

*She will give the green light to the TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership) which she called "Gold Standard", and thus further destroy American jobs and sovereignty.*

*Trump wants to get rid of NAFTA (which Hillary and her husband Bill signed during Bill's presidency) which destroyed American jobs and which was only a small version of what the TPP is proposed to be and Trump opposes TTP as well as NAFTA.*

*Hillary wants to leave America without an efficient border enforcement and immigration enforcement, leaving America wide open to any random person who has questionable intentions and enters the country illegally. *

*Trump wants to enforce the currently neglected immigration laws and build a border wall which will drastically secure America's southern borderlands where billions of dollars worth of drugs, illegal guns, and human trafficking takes place every year. This is a common sense stance. Every country has a border and immigration enforcement. Illegally residing in any country can land you in trouble in said country as it is breaking the law of that country. Pakistanis know this better than anyone, especially people from Karachi who complain about illegal Afghans bringing drugs and guns into Karachi.* 

Trump's policies are grounded in common sense. Hillary's policies are grounded in treachery proven by her track record while she held political office for thirty years. Hillary's past speaks for itself.

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## T-Rex

Desert Fox said:


> *Hillary is going to bomb Syria's legitimate secular government and thus help ISIS, *


*
You have a twisted notion of legitimacy, it comes out of the barrel of a gun. That shows what a great democrat you are. Are you going to suggest to trump to behave like your favourite despot in Syria when he's going to lose the election? People like you are the real threat to world peace. You are ready to burn down the entire world if you can't grab the throne.*


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## T-72

T-Rex said:


> *You have a twisted notion of legitimacy, it comes out of the barrel of a gun. That shows what a great democrat you are. Are you going to suggest to trump to behave like your favourite despot in Syria when he's going to lose the election? People like you are the real threat to world peace. You are ready to burn down the entire world if you can't grab the throne.*


wahhabi terrorist infested areas like Aleppo, Mosul and Raqqa need to be bombed to shit. We want American JDAMS to join in on the fun the Syrian and Russian Air Forces are having.  





-------------------------------------------------

also, looks like Comey just cleared her, again  

hopefully the damage has been done because news takes time to seep in but what's very interesting is that this is exactly what Larry Nichols, guest on the Alex Jones show, had said when news of the re-investigation first broke a week ago, that Comey will clear her before election day. 


and was Bernie Sanders blackmailed ? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/794756750926876672


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## maximuswarrior

LOL Comey clears Hillary. Now watch how Trump maniacs start fabricating new excuses and conspiracies. I'm loving these KKK Bible extremists joining forces with Trump. Seems the aggrieved white supremacist has after all found a prophet who can alleviate his pain and anger. Trump already accusing the same FBI he praised a couple of days ago LMAO That didn't take long. What a clown fest. Finger licking good though.

I hope Trump wins it. Can't wait for this guy to singlehandedly ruin the USA. The Americans are screwed either way. On the one hand a lunatic orange head who believes that China is responsible for climate change hoax. On the other hand a corrupt politician who wants to keep the status quo in tact. Let's see what happens.

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## Nilgiri

T-72 said:


> also, looks like Comey just cleared her, again



Thats fine as long as Clinton and FBI keep appearing on the headlines.


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## maximuswarrior

*“I am a big fan of Hindu”: Donald Trump’s hideous love affair with Hindu nationalism*

http://www.salon.com/2016/10/22/i-a...s-hideous-love-affair-with-hindu-nationalism/

Very interesting facts about Hindu nationalist support for Trump. Explains it in a nutshell why we see some extremist nut jobs from that part of the world supporting Trump.

*This Indian-American Man Is One Of Donald Trump's Biggest Donors*

In an interview with _The Hill_, Kumar revealed he first met Trump in July and was impressed with his views on Muslim profiling, his policies on Pakistan and a stronger US-India relationship.

Kumar, who owns the electronics manufacturing company AVG Advanced Technologies, is also one of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's most powerful supporters in the US.

http://m.huffingtonpost.in/2016/10/...n-man-is-one-of-donald-trumps-biggest-donors/

Among the very few Indian Americans who do appear to support Trump, some have focused on, and have even expressed admiration for, his anti-Muslim rhetoric. They are hopeful it will ultimately translate into policies tough on Pakistan and thus beneficial to India, should Trump win the White House. It is not uncommon for these views to be accompanied by the bigotry, xenophobia and prejudice that have become such hallmark features of Trump’s own campaign.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ronakde...ans-do-not-support-donald-trump/#34401abd36ac


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## T-72

Nilgiri said:


> Thats fine as long as Clinton and FBI keep appearing on the headlines.


yeah, only a day to go, hopefully the combined effect of the past 10 days will dampen the positives for her. 



maximuswarrior said:


> Explains it in a nutshell why we see some nut jobs from that part of the world on this forum supporting Trump.


where ? I don't see any Hindu nationalists on this thread.


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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> yeah, only a day to go, hopefully the combined effect of the past 10 days will dampen the positives for her.
> 
> 
> where ? I don't see any Hindu nationalists on this thread.



Ever looked at yourself?



Meengla said:


> There is no question about that the MSM has steered the elections toward Hillary. Not that I'd ever vote for Trump--and that's not because he's 'Anti Muslim' or 'Anti Latino' etc. But because Trump is a SPOILED BRAT! Any person who's never had to face the consequences of his/her actions or felt pressured to use his/her brain is a dangerous human being. A lose Cannon. We have our own such in Pakistan--if you know what I mean
> 
> 
> I wouldn't trust my cow to Donald Trump.
> 
> Now to Hillary. Getting away from Libya and Syria fiascos by the same media which, rightly, lynched G.W.Bush for Iraq. If I HAD to pick between the two, I'd pick Hillary. *But luckily, there's Jill Stein--the Green Party candidate. Yes, a vote lost while my conscience wins.*



The irony is that the Trump supporter on this forum will keep throwing the accusation that Hillary is a warmonger, Muslim murderer etc. Yet, instead of voting for someone like Jill who totally opposes war and US meddling in other nations these people would opt for Trump who in reality would just up the ante. The absurdity is mindboggling. Only this absurdity is deliberate.

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## LA se Karachi

*Election 2016: America Deserved Better*​





Jonathan Ernst / Reuters


Election Day will be the culmination of a long painful presidential campaign that has pitted two unpopular candidates against each other in one the most offensive races in this nation’s history. The beacon of democracy has been soiled by scurrilous rhetoric that has blemished the character and stature of the United States. No matter the outcome, the healing process is sure to be long and difficult.

Republican Donald Trump fought like a pit bull to win his party’s nomination. He insulted all of his primary opponents, using demeaning language and derogatory terms to describe his foes. He succeeded to play on the anger of many citizens who feel left behind, who believe the government is not functioning properly, who are frustrated with illegal immigrants, who fear a terrorist attack, who are worried their guns will be taken away, and who are fed up with foreign wars.

Trump is a severely flawed candidate. He has been recorded on video making offensive remarks about women, even saying he would be sexually abusive to them. Now a dozen women have come forward to claim Trump made unwanted sexual advances to them, claims he has denied. This follows his long history of using degrading and slanderous insults against women.

Trump began his campaign insulting Mexicans immigrants as rapists and drug dealers, and promised to build a wall along the southern border that Mexico would pay for. He announced a ban on Muslims entering the U.S., and called for monitors to watch over mosques. He insulted Senator John McCain, saying the former POW was not a war hero. He insulted a disabled reporter, and has consistently attacked reporters covering his campaign as dishonest, which created an unsafe environment for journalists assigned to his events.

Recent news reports have revealed that Trump cut corners and used shady tax provisions for decades to keep his companies afloat. Trump used bankruptcy laws to leave several contractors and their employees high and dry, as well as investors and would-be homeowners. Trump brags that he gives money to charities, but recent news reports have revealed he often promises a lot, and then later reneges on his promises. The now defunct Trump University is currently facing three civil suits, and the biggest lesson its students learned is not to trust Trump. Trump claims he cannot release his tax returns because he says he is being audited. There is no proof he is being audited, but an audit is not a valid a reason for him to withhold his returns from the American public in an election year. It is likely he knows if he released them he would be exposed. Regretfully, he has gotten away with his lack of transparency.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has endorsed Trump, and Trump has said kind words about Putin. Since Trump has questioned the role of NATO, a vital national security organization for the U.S., of course Putin supports Trump because he wants a weakened NATO too. Russian hackers are doing their part to tip the election Trump’s way, while Putin is supporting the rise of nationalist movements throughout Europe in an effort to undermine that region’s stability. So it should be no surprise that those with nationalist sentiments in this country, and even the Ku Klux Klan, are supporting Trump.

Trump has no military or foreign policy experience, yet we are at a time when the world is in tremendous transition, and American forces are engaged in several conflicts. For decades efforts have been made to limit existing nuclear stockpiles and stop the spread of these massively destructive weapons to other countries, as well as to terrorists. But Trump has said he would not be opposed to using these weapons, and suggested that Japan and Saudi Arabia should be allowed to have them. His lack of understanding on this issue is scary — and may have profound consequences should he be elected. The president doesn’t need Congressional approval to launch a nuclear war.

On the campaign trail Trump has been the consummate showman and entertainer. He makes outrageous comments to fire up his supporters. He has dubbed his opponent “crooked” Hillary Clinton, yet he has lied hundreds of times according to every fact-checker. This man actually had the chutzpah to announce in a debate he would launch an investigation into Clinton if he were elected president, and even said she should be in jail.

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, has a serious trust issue with the American electorate dating back to her time as Arkansas First Lady. There have been many investigations into both Hillary and her husband, former President Bill Clinton. She has never been charged on convicted with a crime. Yet her use of a private Email server while U.S. Secretary of State has been the scandal that simply won’t go away. While she apologized, the fact that she had thousands of personal Emails destroyed that may have been relevant to an investigation into her handling of classified material has further undermined her credibility.

Clinton has enemies within the FBI. Last July, FBI chief James Comey cleared her of wrong doing but declared her handling of Emails as reckless. Republican members of Congress were sharply critical of Comey’s decision. Ten days ago former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who is also a former U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, appeared on _Fox News_ and predicted something big was about to come out that would hurt Clinton. Two days later Comey sent a letter to members of Congress informing them that the FBI would expand its investigation into Emails found on the laptop of former Congressman Anthony Weiner, the estranged husband of Clinton’s right-hand aide, Huma Abedin. Did disgruntled FBI agents tip off Giuliani? He says no. Even worse, _Fox News_ anchor Brett Baier, quoting FBI sources, reported that an indictment was likely against the Clinton Foundation. Later he had to retract his story and apologize, but the damage was done.

The Comey letter roiled the presidential race, and now Trump is within striking distance of being elected. The stock market suffered losses Friday, and many world leaders are on edge. Despite her problems, Clinton is considered one of the most experienced, knowledgeable, and hard working candidates to ever run for president. Her time as first lady of the United States, as a U.S. Senator from New York, and as U.S. Secretary of State, have given her a deep background and extensive connections to draw upon if she is elected president.

And on Sunday, James Comey sent a new letter to members of Congress regarding the Email’s on Weiner’s laptop. Comey wrote, “based on our review, we have not changed our conclusions that we expressed in July with respect to Secretary Clinton.” This apparently ended any further investigation, according to _The New York Times_. Comey’s latest letter comes at a time when Clinton appears to be holding on to a slim lead over Trump in the final hours before Election Day. Not surprisingly, Clinton has the support of most women, as well as most Latinos, African Americans, Asians and younger Americans. If they turnout in massive numbers Clinton will make history as the first woman to be elected U.S. president.

No matter the final outcome, most Americans will be relieved the presidential election is finally over. However, the country will remain deeply divided, and it will be difficult for the winner to govern the country. Meanwhile, books will be written about what went wrong with the 2016 presidential election. There will be plenty of blame to mete out, to Trump, to Clinton, to the political parties, to the presidential campaigns, to the FBI, to the media, and even to the Russians.

After all, America deserves far better.

 
_http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-peyronnin/election-2016-america-des_b_12835752.html_

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## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> Ever looked at yourself?


ever looked at what I post ? 

not a Hindu nationalist, though I don't think there's anything wrong with being one. The 2 or 3 other Indians regularly posting in this thread don't fit that description either. 




----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trump's final push, high energy

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## forsigmar

jha said:


> Apparently Clinton's name has been cleared in the email scandal. Again..


That is because Comey is a corrupt asshole.


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## T-Rex

*FBI: No charges against Hillary Clinton over emails*
*Trump says his opponent is 'protected by a rigged system' after FBI director rules out any charges against Clinton.*


FBI Director James Comey has told Congress a review of new Hillary Clinton emails has "not changed our conclusions" from earlier this year that she should not face charges.

Comey sent the letter on Sunday, just two days before the US presidental election. It followed one he sent last week saying agents would be reviewing newly discovered emails that may be connected to Clinton.

They were found on the device of Anthony Weiner, the disgraced congressman and estranged husband of Clinton's close aide Huma Abedin.

Clinton's Republican rival Donald Trump quickly responded to Comey's latest announcement, saying Clinton is protected by a "rigged system". 

"Right now she's being protected by a rigged system. It's a totally rigged system. I've been saying it for a long time," Trump told supporters in Sterling Heights, Michigan.

"Hillary Clinton is guilty, she knows it, the FBI knows it, the people know it and now it's up to the American people to deliver justice at the ballot box on November 8."


Since Comey dropped the bombshell that a review of Clinton's state department email practices would be revisited after new messages were uncovered, "the FBI investigative team has been working around the clock," Comey said in a widely circulated letter to lawmakers.

"During that process, we reviewed all of the communications that were to or from Hillary Clinton while she was secretary of state. Based on our review, we have not changed our conclusions that we expressed in July with respect to secretary Clinton."

Her campaign communications director Jennifer Palmieri welcomed the move. 

"We are glad to see that he has found, as we were confident that he would, that he's confirmed the conclusions that he reached in July," Palmieri told reporters travelling with the candidate.

"And we're glad that this matter is resolved."

Clinton holds a five-point lead over Trump in the latest Washington Post-ABC Tracking Poll released early Sunday.

In a Post-ABC poll on Friday, Clinton had led Trump by 47 percent to 44 percent.

Clinton had an advantage in affirmative support, the poll said, with 55 percent of backers saying they are mainly supporting her, compared with 43 percent of Trump voters. More Trump voters say they "mainly oppose Clinton".

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/11/fbi-charges-hillary-clinton-emails-161106211815632.html



forsigmar said:


> That is because Comey is a corrupt asshole.


*
Only yesterday he was 'doing his duty' and today he's a scoundrel! Typical Trump mentality!*



T-72 said:


> wahhabi terrorist infested areas like Aleppo, Mosul and Raqqa need to be bombed to shit. We want American JDAMS to join in on the fun the Syrian and Russian Air Forces are having.



*
As I said people like you are ready to burn down the entire world if you can't cling to power like a blood sucking leech! *


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## T-72

T-Rex said:


> As I said people like you are ready to burn down the entire world if you can't cling to power like a blood sucking leech!


Putin is going to massively ramp up punitive military action on US jihadi proxies in Syria if crooked hillary is elected. So either way, your beloved ISIS and FSA scum are going to be bombed even harder in the days to come.


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## Zarvan

I don't want my Muslim brothers and sisters in USA to be in trouble other wise I really want this trump to win. He is the best thing which can happen to Muslims and people around the world who is USA messing with and worst thing for USA.


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## T-Rex

T-72 said:


> Putin is going to massively ramp up punitive military action on US jihadi proxies in Syria if crooked hillary is elected. So either way, your beloved ISIS and FSA scum are going to be bombed even harder in the days to come.


*
Giving up on Trump so soon! BTW we don't supply the IED explosives to your beloved Daesh, you do and as for FSA, they are used to being bombed by the barrel bombers but something new is going to be added to this and I'm sure you know what that is. You wanted the US JDAMS, I tell you what, your genocidal buddies will get the US JDAMs alright but before that tell your barrel bombers to have their last suppers in case they haven't had their last suppers yet.*


----------



## CorporateAffairs

This election is already rigged by Billary.

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## forsigmar

Meengla said:


> There is no question about that the MSM has steered the elections toward Hillary. Not that I'd ever vote for Trump--and that's not because he's 'Anti Muslim' or 'Anti Latino' etc. But because Trump is a SPOILED BRAT! Any person who's never had to face the consequences of his/her actions or felt pressured to use his/her brain is a dangerous human being. A lose Cannon. We have our own such in Pakistan--if you know what I mean
> 
> 
> I wouldn't trust my cow to Donald Trump.
> 
> Now to Hillary. Getting away from Libya and Syria fiascos by the same media which, rightly, lynched G.W.Bush for Iraq. If I HAD to pick between the two, I'd pick Hillary. *But luckily, there's Jill Stein--the Green Party candidate. Yes, a vote lost while my conscience wins.*


Lol


T-Rex said:


> *FBI: No charges against Hillary Clinton over emails*
> *Trump says his opponent is 'protected by a rigged system' after FBI director rules out any charges against Clinton.*
> 
> 
> FBI Director James Comey has told Congress a review of new Hillary Clinton emails has "not changed our conclusions" from earlier this year that she should not face charges.
> 
> Comey sent the letter on Sunday, just two days before the US presidental election. It followed one he sent last week saying agents would be reviewing newly discovered emails that may be connected to Clinton.
> 
> They were found on the device of Anthony Weiner, the disgraced congressman and estranged husband of Clinton's close aide Huma Abedin.
> 
> Clinton's Republican rival Donald Trump quickly responded to Comey's latest announcement, saying Clinton is protected by a "rigged system".
> 
> "Right now she's being protected by a rigged system. It's a totally rigged system. I've been saying it for a long time," Trump told supporters in Sterling Heights, Michigan.
> 
> "Hillary Clinton is guilty, she knows it, the FBI knows it, the people know it and now it's up to the American people to deliver justice at the ballot box on November 8."
> 
> 
> Since Comey dropped the bombshell that a review of Clinton's state department email practices would be revisited after new messages were uncovered, "the FBI investigative team has been working around the clock," Comey said in a widely circulated letter to lawmakers.
> 
> "During that process, we reviewed all of the communications that were to or from Hillary Clinton while she was secretary of state. Based on our review, we have not changed our conclusions that we expressed in July with respect to secretary Clinton."
> 
> Her campaign communications director Jennifer Palmieri welcomed the move.
> 
> "We are glad to see that he has found, as we were confident that he would, that he's confirmed the conclusions that he reached in July," Palmieri told reporters travelling with the candidate.
> 
> "And we're glad that this matter is resolved."
> 
> Clinton holds a five-point lead over Trump in the latest Washington Post-ABC Tracking Poll released early Sunday.
> 
> In a Post-ABC poll on Friday, Clinton had led Trump by 47 percent to 44 percent.
> 
> Clinton had an advantage in affirmative support, the poll said, with 55 percent of backers saying they are mainly supporting her, compared with 43 percent of Trump voters. More Trump voters say they "mainly oppose Clinton".
> 
> http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/11/fbi-charges-hillary-clinton-emails-161106211815632.html
> 
> 
> *
> Only yesterday he was 'doing his duty' and today he's a scoundrel! Typical Trump mentality!*
> 
> 
> 
> *
> As I said people like you are ready to burn down the entire world if you can't cling to power like a blood sucking leech! *


He was NEVER doing his duty. He was always a scoundrel. It is amazing, how people would support such a corrupt candidate.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...-stack-resignation-letters-furious-fbi-agents

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/28/opinions/fbi-director-comey-should-resign-opinion-callan/

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion...ould-resign/10IGkgGMy5XKS6Zdw9Lz2I/story.html

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsmax-Tv/tom-delay-email-probe-fbi-agents/2016/11/01/id/756491/

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## gambit

forsigmar said:


> It is amazing, how people would support such a corrupt candidate.


Nothing 'amazing' about this. People supports A because they believe B is worse. And vice versa.

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## Desert Fox

T-Rex said:


> *You have a twisted notion of legitimacy, it comes out of the barrel of a gun. That shows what a great democrat you are. Are you going to suggest to trump to behave like your favourite despot in Syria when he's going to lose the election? People like you are the real threat to world peace. You are ready to burn down the entire world if you can't grab the throne.*


Shouldn't you be eating someone's heart like your brethren: Syrian Rebel Eats Dead Soldiers Heart- GRAPHIC 


​

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## Meengla

maximuswarrior said:


> Ever looked at yourself?
> 
> 
> 
> The irony is that the Trump supporter on this forum will keep throwing the accusation that Hillary is a warmonger, Muslim murderer etc. *Yet, instead of voting for someone like Jill who totally opposes war and US meddling in other nations these people would opt for Trump who in reality would just up the ante*. The absurdity is mindboggling. Only this absurdity is deliberate.



Yes sir! Mindboggling is the right word. 

Let's all sink this into our heads: Trump has no convictions, no principles, no ethics, and no morals! Oh, I wish he was in the Pakistani Parliament that day to be addressed by the Pakistani Defense Minister Kh. Asif: "Koi Sharam Hoti Hai...". Or to be addressed in U.S hearing: "At long last, sir, have no sense of decency?".


----------



## T-Rex

Desert Fox said:


> Shouldn't you be eating someone's heart like your brethren: Syrian Rebel Eats Dead Soldiers Heart- GRAPHIC


*
Irrelevant rants to cover up mind boggling desire of your favourite blood sucking leech trying to cling to power!*


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## T-72

Meengla said:


> Yes sir! Mindboggling is the right word.


No sir, I beg to disagree, there are many perfectly good and well-intentioned reasons to support Trump. 

First off, the US is _already_ neck deep in the cesspool that is the middle east now, Syria and Iraq in particular. There can be no disengagement from those issues going forward. Trump and Hillary have laid out radically different approaches to deal with it and I found Trump's breaking with norm and brutally taking the neocons down on his way to clinching his party's nomination quite refreshing. A detente with Russia, stop supporting rebels in Syria, hit ISIS harder.. these are all great ideas.

Hillary is promising to make a really bad situation even worse, she will be like a lethal cocktail of all the hubris of Bush plus the limp-wristed weak appeasement policies of Obama.




also, ignore my exchange with that jamaati pest T-rex earlier, that thing is like an annoying housefly, its all over the forum in every topic, and it types in bold.

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## Desert Fox

T-Rex said:


> *Irrelevant rants to cover up mind boggling desire of your favourite blood sucking leech trying to cling to power!*


He's your favorite "blood sucking leech" too, admit it


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## T-72

the Clinton News Network is airing crooked hillary's event, watch the Trump rally instead:

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## RabzonKhan

Told you, Hillary is stability, Trump is a disaster, the madman with horrible temperament will ruin our economy and would send the economy back into recession and this time it will be even worse.

Vote wisely, and remember, in the end, it's the economy, stupid!










*Dow surges 300 points as FBI clears Clinton on eve of election*

The broad market looks on track to break a nine-day losing streak, Wall Street's longest in 36 years, as investors again start to price in their base case of a Clinton win. *Read more*



*Market Stampede sees US Dollar Steamroll British Pound, Euro and other Foreign Exchange Majors*

The US Dollar is outperforming its rivals as global financial markets rapidly price a Clinton victory in the hours before polling stations open across the United States. *Read more*

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## T-72



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## RabzonKhan

*





Being Muslim in America in the era of Trump: A community’s view before voting
*
The campaign for the 2016 US presidential elections began against a backdrop of already rising Islamophobia with hundreds of incidents of anti-Muslim violence and vandalism being reported in the country.

Republican candidate Donald Trump’s rhetorics on Islam and Muslims have raised concerns among American Muslims and added to the anti-Muslim sentiments.

With barely a few hours remaining to the polling, Hindustan Times contacted some prominent American Muslims through email asking them about their views on Trump and the elections this year.

Here’s what they had to say:

*Wajahat Ali* is a writer and former journalist at Al Jazeera America. The 36-year-old is also the director of Affinis Labs, an award-winning social entrepreneurial hub in Virginia. He lives in Washington DC.

Growing up a Muslim in America, my life, for the most part, has been privileged, safe and I’ve lived and thrived with diverse community members. I never thought we’d live to see a day where a Republican presidential candidate will advocate a ban of 1.6 billion Muslims and promise to have the rest of us undergo “extreme vetting”. It is sad, discouraging and bit frightening - especially with the rise in anti-Muslim incidents, assaults, violent, vandalism against mosques and harassment and bullying of Muslim kids.

*Shadi Hamid, 33,* is a senior fellow in the Project on US Relations with the Islamic World at the Brookings Institution and author of Islamic Exceptionalism: How the Struggle Over Islam Is Reshaping the World. He lives in Washington DC.

To be a Muslim in the era of Trump has, sadly, become a more fraught thing. We have become an object of concern and fear. I remember walking into a cafe in a rural part of Florida after Trump announced his ban on Muslim immigration. There was something almost surreal about it and I’m not sure I ever felt anything quite like that before. I wasn’t me. I was part of this inchoate collective - a collective that was apparently a threat to the country I loved. 

*Murtuza Husain,* 29, is a New York-based journalist and political commentator. His work focuses on human rights, foreign policy and cultural affairs.

It is uncomfortable to witness the rise of anti-Muslim populism in the country as exemplified by Trump. We are hoping he will lose in the election ... He has unleashed negative passions in the society that are going to be with us for a long time. As Muslims, I think that most of us feel relatively secure and confident, but things can change quite quickly particularly when an economic downturn happens. His candidacy is a wake-up call for our activism and advocacy for the future.

*Omer Aziz,* 26, lives in New Haven. He is a student at Yale Law School and a writer who publishes in various magazines. He formerly worked for the United Nations.

In one awful respect, I am glad for Trump because he has brought the racism and xenophobia underlying our society to the forefront. Trump is not this foreign monster who has come out of nowhere; he is a representative of a large part of the American people; he is the winner of 14 million votes in the Republican primaries — the largest victory ever. Donald Trump is to America what the RSS is to India - a chauvinist and nationalist who exploits people’s worries by scapegoating others.

*Ambarien AlQadar* is an award-winning Indian filmmaker teaching at The Rochester Institute of Technology Film Program. She lives in Rochester.

At a local church event, the morning speaker sometimes asks the question: “Why are Muslims so violent?” It is a deeply discomforting moment because it forces me to speak as a Muslim in a moment when I am trying to find my new bearings. I am aware that Mr Trump might be the next president. If that’s the verdict of the American people, then I respect it. In the same moment, I feel the need for a grassroots movement lead by peace loving Muslims who can spread love in times of hate.


*Dr Sayed Ammar Nakshawani*, 35, is from London now settled in Washington DC. He is a professor and the Imam Ali Chair of Shia studies at Hartford Seminary as well as an Islamic subject matter expert, scholar and author. He is listed as one of the 500 Most Influential Muslims in the World.

It is an honour to be an American Muslim. There is more free thought in the United States of America than in many Muslim majority countries in Asia and Middle East and we live either as brethren in faiths or equals in humanity. Yes, naturally there may be some politically motivated people with prejudices or bigotry but the Muslims are not the first to face this in the United States, this period will pass and we shall overcome to live in peace.

*Abbas Kadhim,* 48, is a senior foreign policy fellow, FPI-SAIS, Johns Hopkins University. He lives in Washington.

The fears about “Donald Trump’s America” are exaggerated. We are going to elect a president, not an emperor. There are institutions and the constitution of the United States of America guarantees that it will preserve the rights of Muslim Americans no matter who the president will be, whether Hillary or Trump. Both candidates have merits and shortcomings in all political, social and economic fields. The election should focus on these and balance them on all aspects, not just the issue of their views on Muslims and Islam.

*Dr Zaineb Hussain* is a clinical pharmacist and a member of Baqee Organization, a coalition of American Muslim citizens. She is in her 40s and lives in Chicago.

I’m deeply concerned about my sisters in faith who have had their hijabs snatched due to religious discrimination in current times. Although I say as a Muslim woman I always take the opportunity to point out the difference between Wahhabism and Islam and hopefully more Muslims will jump on this bandwagon to seize this opportunity. I uphold the optimistic torch that maybe Mr Donald Trump’s racial discrimination will force the world to realise that there is no such thing as “Islamic terrorism”, rather the correct term is “Wahhabi terrorism”.

*Zahra Khan,* 58, is an accountant and lives in San Francisco. Her name has been changed on her request.

America is a multi-cultural country where everyone loves each other, cultures are respected, people respect each other’s faith, and most importantly for Muslims Americans, for Hijab wearing Muslim American women, the workspaces here have always been welcoming and with great warmth and respect. When Trump says, ‘Make American Great Again’, he actually means ‘Make America White Again’. Let us remind him that America was and is already a great country. It does not need people like Trump to add to its greatness. *Link
*

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## Deidara

My advice to the americans reading this............





Humanity needs men of action first and foremost in leadership roles. A fool in action is better than a wise man doing nothing.


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## Desert Fox

​

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## T-72

what fun, you can cut it with a knife

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## Meengla

T-72 said:


> No sir, I beg to disagree, there are many perfectly good and well-intentioned reasons to support Trump.
> 
> First off, the US is _already_ neck deep in the cesspool that is the middle east now, Syria and Iraq in particular. There can be no disengagement from those issues going forward. Trump and Hillary have laid out radically different approaches to deal with it and I found Trump's breaking with norm and brutally taking the neocons down on his way to clinching his party's nomination quite refreshing. A detente with Russia, stop supporting rebels in Syria, hit ISIS harder.. these are all great ideas..



All those are great policies which I'd support except Trump is not the guy. *I honestly don't believe a word he says*! He's tapped into a large segment of angry Americans and he is playing to their tune and making them dance on his return tune. 
*
Kind of like ("Deliverance" film is situated barely 90 minutes from my American home!) :*







He's making it as he goes and, as they say, better to deal with the devil you know then the one you don't.

My vote will be for Jill Stein. Had she not been in the contention then it would be for Hillary for sure.

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## T-72

Meengla said:


> All those are great policies which I'd support except Trump is not the guy. *I honestly don't believe a word he says*! He's tapped into a large segment of angry Americans and he is playing to their tune and making them dance on his return tune.
> *
> Kind of like ("Deliverance" film is situated barely 90 minutes from my American home!) :*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's making it as he goes and, as they say, better to deal with the devil you know then the one you don't.
> 
> My vote will be for Jill Stein. Had she not been in the contention then it would be for Hillary for sure.


sure thing, there is space for as many opinions as there are on all matters as far as I'm concerned, good on you for following through on your convictions.

on Trump, I don't think it even needs to be said because he's so obviously far from perfect lol, and also that the far right fringe is ugly wherever on earth you look but a little bit of nuance and not that broad strokes helps draw a clearer picture here. 

The hitler bit is just retarded, not only is the US way too advanced as a society, there are many constitutional safeguards and redundancies built and hard coded into that system for it to ever fall to *the nazis*. 

anywho, him blurting the occasional retardese and fumbling through a heated campaign is not how he will be in office, if he gets in, that is.


wheel to wheel out the final corner, game on !


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## forsigmar

T-Rex said:


> *Irrelevant rants to cover up mind boggling desire of your favourite blood sucking leech trying to cling to power!*


Why do people from Bangladesh care about Hillary so much? Why do foreigners think they know what is best for America?Do you think Indians should support a globalist candidate? 



RabzonKhan said:


> Told you, Hillary is stability, Trump is a disaster, the madman with horrible temperament will ruin our economy and would send the economy back into recession and this time it will be even worse.
> 
> Vote wisely, and remember, in the end, it's the economy, stupid!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 350099
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Dow surges 300 points as FBI clears Clinton on eve of election*
> 
> The broad market looks on track to break a nine-day losing streak, Wall Street's longest in 36 years, as investors again start to price in their base case of a Clinton win. *Read more*
> 
> 
> 
> *Market Stampede sees US Dollar Steamroll British Pound, Euro and other Foreign Exchange Majors*
> 
> The US Dollar is outperforming its rivals as global financial markets rapidly price a Clinton victory in the hours before polling stations open across the United States. *Read more*


Hahahaa, do you know how many places in America look like third world countries now? Looks like Detroit, Chicago, Compton, State of California etc. America doesn't have any manufacturing anymore. THAT is what "stability" of the Globalists look like. FTS.

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## maximuswarrior

LMAO

The president, during a rally in Florida on Sunday, said that if Mr Trump could not be trusted with a Twitter account, he should not be in charge of US nuclear weapons.

He was referring to a New York Times report that Mr Trump's team had taken control of his Twitter account from him.

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## A.P. Richelieu

forsigmar said:


> Why do people from Bangladesh care about Hillary so much? Why do foreigners think they know what is best for America?Do you think Indians should support a globalist candidate?
> 
> 
> Hahahaa, do you know how many places in America look like third world countries now? Looks like Detroit, Chicago, Compton, State of California etc. America doesn't have any manufacturing anymore. THAT is what "stability" of the Globalists look like. FTS.



Apple seems to be doing fine without local production...
I think most people would prefer working for Apple, than for the Chinese company manufacturing their phones.


----------



## Meengla

T-72 said:


> sure thing, there is space for as many opinions as there are on all matters as far as I'm concerned, good on you for following through on your convictions.
> 
> on Trump, I don't think it even needs to be said because he's so obviously far from perfect lol, and also that the far right fringe is ugly wherever on earth you look but a little bit of nuance and not that broad strokes helps draw a clearer picture here.
> 
> The hitler bit is just retarded, not only is the US way too advanced as a society, there are many constitutional safeguards and redundancies built and hard coded into that system for it to ever fall to *the nazis*.
> 
> anywho, him blurting the occasional retardese and fumbling through a heated campaign is not how he will be in office, if he gets in, that is.
> 
> 
> wheel to wheel out the final corner, game on !



I am at a loss trying to understand what you are trying to say here?!! If you meant, right-wing retards can be acceptable if they are little polished in their approach then, no, they will be still unacceptable. 

And this idea that constitutional checks and balances are great moderating tools is also very dangerous: There is a reason why POTUS office is the most coveted office in America. The President can do a lot of damage, 'veto' a lot of bills getting to him, pass a lot of 'executive orders', appoint senior most officials... Yes, his actions could be blocked but it would be like trying to constantly block a rain of falling objects from hitting you--*remember those 80's video games?*!!

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## maximuswarrior

*Trump team tries to ease global concern*

Donald Trump's campaign team has sought to allay negative views expressed overseas towards its candidate, a day before the US goes to the polls.

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37900080


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## RabzonKhan

*Silicon Valley Donated 60 Times More to Clinton Than to Trump*

by ARI LEVY, CNBC

For every $1 that employees at the world's biggest technology companies donated to Donald Trump, they gave $60 to Hillary Clinton.

People who work at Apple, Alphabet, Microsoft, Facebook, and Amazon sent a total of $3 million to the Democratic presidential nominee ahead of the 2016 election on Tuesday, compared with just over $50,000 to her Republican challenger, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

Said differently, as of October 19, Clinton attracted 97 percent of big tech money, with the remaining 3 percent split between Trump, Libertarian Gary Johnson, and Green Party nominee Jill Stein.

Silicon Valley and Seattle, home to the technology giants, have long leaned blue, but this sort of one-sidedness is unprecedented and speaks to the technology industry's rejection of Trump's attitudes toward minorities and women and concern around pressing issues like climate change (which he called a hoax) and immigration. *Read more*


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## T-72

Meengla said:


> I am at a loss trying to understand what you are trying to say here?!! If you meant, right-wing retards can be acceptable if they are little polished in their approach then, no, they will be still unacceptable.
> 
> And this idea that constitutional checks and balances are great moderating tools is also very dangerous: There is a reason why POTUS office is the most coveted office in America. The President can do a lot of damage, 'veto' a lot of bills getting to him, pass a lot of 'executive orders', appoint senior most officials... Yes, his actions could be blocked but it would be like trying to constantly block a rain of falling objects from hitting you--*remember those 80's video games?*!!


Trump is the least right wing republican ever (in the religious zealot sense anyway)

look, there's many aspects to this but a lot of the fear and negative hype surrounding a possible Trump term is just partisan bs and fear mongering, is all. 

I'm off now, we'll see how it all pans out tomorrow.


----------



## RabzonKhan

*







Hillary Clinton Is the World’s Choice for U.S. President, Poll Finds
*
*More than 100,000 people from 130 countries took the online poll*

Who would win the U.S. election if people from around the world were given a vote? A new poll aimed to find that out, and Hillary Clinton was the clear victor.

More than 100,000 people from 130 countries took part in the first ever Global Vote for a U.S. president, according to the global political movement The Good Country, which organized the online survey.

Participants were asked to select their preferred candidate in a non-scientific poll ahead of the official presidential election Tuesday. They were told to only consider the candidates’ international policies, as “domestic issues are the exclusive concern of US citizens”.

Clinton received over half of the vote (52%) and Green Party candidate Jill Stein secured second place with 19%. Donald Trump came in third place, with 14%, and Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson received 7%. Eight percent of voters chose to abstain, indicating that, in their view, none of the four official candidates were “good news for the world”.

“What is clear from commentary around this vote is that Donald Trump is seen by many as a threat to international prosperity and stability,” the Global Vote’s creator Simon Anholt said. *Read more*


*


Latino voting surge rattles Trump campaign*

'A certain group' appears to be turning out in big numbers in several key states.

Hispanic voters could be poised to deliver a historic rebuke to Donald Trump and the Republican Party.

Early-vote statistics from battleground states with large Hispanic populations show record turnout among a bloc that has voted at a lower rate than whites or blacks in past elections. If, as some polls suggest, Hispanic voters are supporting Hillary Clinton by blowout margins, these numbers could sink Trump in a handful of states that are essential to his path to 270 electoral votes.

In Nevada, Latino turnout propelled Democrats in Clark County — the population center that's home to Las Vegas — to a record-breaking close on Friday, driving up the Democratic lead in early ballots cast to 72,000. That's enough, according to veteran Nevada political analyst Jon Ralston, to essentially tie a bow on the state for Clinton.

Four years earlier, when President Barack Obama won the state by 7 points, Democrats led Clark County in ballots cast by 71,000 at the end of early voting in 2012. *Read more*

*


Fox News Poll: Clinton moves to 4-point edge over Trump
*
With one day before Election Day, Hillary Clinton has a four percentage-point lead over Donald Trump, according to the final Fox News national pre-election poll of likely voters. 

She’s ahead by 48-44 percent, while Gary Johnson receives 3 percent and Jill Stein 2 percent.
*

*
*Read more*

*

*

*Clinton 3 Points Ahead of Trump in Final Bloomberg National Poll*

*The Democrat has strong advantages among women, non-whites, Hispanics, and young voters.*

*



*

Clinton has more demographic strongholds than Trump, when the two are compared alone. She's leading among women (+15 percentage points), those under age 35 (+15 percentage points), non-whites (+37 percentage points), Hispanics (+25 percentage points), *those with college degrees (+15 percentage points), and suburban women (+22 percentage points).*

*Trump has some of his strongest support among those without college degrees (+8 percentage points), white men (+25 percentage points), rural dwellers (+30 percentage points), and those who are married (+9 percentage points). Read more*

*


Crystal Ball 2016 Electoral College Ratings*

Final Forecast: November 7th
Final projection for the 2016 election from Larry Sabato and the team at the University of Virginia Center for Politics. Use this map as a starting point to create and share your own 2016 presidential election forecast.

Kyle Kondik, managing editor of Sabato's Crystal Ball, has written a book called The Bellwether, about Ohio's record as a predictor of presidential elections. Only twice since 1896 have Ohio voters gotten it wrong.

NOTE: The actual total for Safe Clinton is 183; Likely Clinton 49. In Maine, Sabato rates the state Likely Clinton, with District 1 Safe.


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## Desert Fox



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## pakdefender

The world is watching


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## Desert Fox



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## Śakra

*As you can see Desis' support for Trump crosses religious lines. If you are a Desi living in America plz vote for Donald "Kalki" Trump.*

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## T-72

Trump's closing rally live:






Ted Nugent is tearing it up 

Fred Bear. 

\m/

Trump got the rock n roll, she got disgusting nigga bitch rap

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## 52051

The american democrazy is a complete joke

The best they can offer is either a serial killer/satan-worshipper/hideous witch or a convicted retarded loudmouth who has six bankruptcies in his track record and still claim he is the god at running business and only good at using other people's money to gamble, hehehe


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## noksss

Hillary Clinton is possibly the worst candidate in living memory for the US Presidency. Forgetting the dead US ambassador to Libya, the Arab nations that have been destroyed on her watch, and a whole trail of dead bodies would be unfair.

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/why-i-hope-hillary-loses/20161108.htm


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## KAL-EL

going to miss @RabzonKhan and @Desert Fox (among others) posting their dueling stories, meme's and other assorted things.

as I'm sure they didn't mean for some of those things to come off a little entertaining (and even sometimes comical) but they did none the less 

Today I will walk into the voting booth for main presidential candidates that I have absolutely no desire for.

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## maximuswarrior

Śakra said:


> *As you can see Desis' support for Trump crosses religious lines. If you are a Desi living in America plz vote for Donald "Kalki" Trump.*



LMAO Only to be deported after the elections.


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## SOHEIL

If trump wins ... Would be fun

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## Śakra

maximuswarrior said:


> LMAO Only to be deported after the elections.



Can you imagine Donald Trump kicking them out?

Donald: "Nikal jao saale gaand"

Desis: "but Sirji, ve voted for you, ve are Desis for Trump"



SOHEIL said:


> If trump wins ... Would be fun



He has the desi votes and approval he is going to win.


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## T-72

big league


----------



## forsigmar

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Apple seems to be doing fine without local production...
> I think most people would prefer working for Apple, than for the Chinese company manufacturing their phones.


I think apple is in decline, their new products aren't exciting anymore. Chinese companies do manufacturing because they are subsidized by the Government using protectionist measures. This trade relationship can no longer continue.


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## maximuswarrior

Śakra said:


> Can you imagine Donald Trump kicking them out?
> 
> Donald: "Nikal jao saale gaand"
> 
> Desis: "but Sirji, ve voted for you, ve are Desis for Trump"
> 
> 
> 
> He has the desi votes and approval he is going to win.



LOL at desi support. Whatever that means. You rather mean Indian Modi support. That would be more accurate.


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## SOHEIL

forsigmar said:


> I think apple is in decline, their new products aren't exciting anymore.



Apple died with Steve jobs...


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## terry5

latinos-blacks out in force to vote out the* racist *
women out in force to vote out the *rapist *

Indians the number one racist and number one rapists in the world they build a temple to worship him

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## maximuswarrior

Desert Fox said:


> View attachment 350133
> 
> 
> View attachment 350134
> 
> 
> View attachment 350135
> 
> 
> View attachment 350137
> 
> 
> View attachment 350136



Too bad your guy is going to lose. All these memes aren't going to help anymore. All that months of crying, sobbing and hating for nothing. LMAO I would get back to your normal life if I were you. Just my two cents.



terry5 said:


> latinos-blacks out in force to vote out the* racist *
> women out in force to vote out the *rapist *
> 
> Indians the number one racist and number one rapists in the world they build a temple to worship him



Just imagine Trump losing today. Months of memes and propaganda gone down the drain.

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## Devil Soul

*Hillary wins New Hampshire hamlet*
Home / World / Hillary wins New Hampshire hamlet
By AFP
November 08, 2016
Latest : World

0
0







DIXVILLE NOTCH, ETATS-UNIS: The US presidential election got underway -- on a small scale -- as seven people in a tiny New Hampshire village cast their ballots at the stroke of midnight.

Dixville Notch has had the honor of launching the voting, symbolically, since 1960.

Clay Smith was the first of seven people to cast their ballots as Tuesday´s long awaited Election Day began. An eighth resident voted by absentee ballot.

The tally was announced in a matter of minutes: four votes for Democrat Hillary Clinton and two for Donald Trump.

Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson won one vote, and there was a write-in vote for Mitt Romney, the losing Republican presidential candidate in 2012.

Two other hamlets in New Hampshire, which is on the Canadian border, also voted at midnight.

Voting begins in earnest at 6:00 am (1100 GMT) in several states along the East Coast.

*Clinton has 90 percent chance of winning: Reuters/Ipsos States of the Nation*
Home / World / Clinton has 90 percent chance of winning: Reuters/Ipsos States of the Nation
By REUTERS
November 08, 2016
Latest : World

0
0







NEW YORK: With hours to go before Americans vote, Democrat Hillary Clinton has about a 90 percent chance of defeating Republican Donald Trump in the race for the White House, according to the final Reuters/Ipsos States of the Nation project.

Her chances are roughly similar to last week's odds, and any upset by Trump on Tuesday depends on an unlikely combination of turnouts of white, black and Hispanic voters in six or seven states, according to the survey released on Monday.

The former secretary of state was leading Trump by about 45 percent to 42 percent in the popular vote, and was on track to win 303 votes in the Electoral College to Trump’s 235, clearing the 270 needed for victory, the survey found.

Trump's chances rest with his performance in Florida, Michigan, North Carolina and Ohio, which were too close to call on Sunday, when polling ended, and Pennsylvania, where Clinton enjoyed a slim lead of three percentage points. For Trump to win, he will have to take most of those states.

Any combination of two losses in the three states of Florida, Michigan and Pennsylvania would almost assuredly result in a Clinton victory. At the same time, Trump must hold onto the traditionally Republican state of Arizona, where the race has drawn close, and hope that independent candidate Evan McMullin does not claim another Republican bastion, Utah.

To win, Trump needs higher turnout among Republican white voters than that which materialized in 2012, a drop-off in ballots by African-American voters and a smaller-than-predicted increase in Hispanic voters, the project showed.

CLUES TO THE OUTCOME

North Carolina, one of the first states to report results on Tuesday night, might provide clues to the outcome. If Clinton wins the state, it probably means African Americans are turning out to vote at a similar rate to 2012, when President Barack Obama beat Republican Mitt Romney by four points nationally. Romney won North Carolina by two points.

The States of the Nation poll found that early votes have been cast evenly between Trump and Clinton in North Carolina. Trump enjoyed a slim one-point advantage among all likely voters, 47 percent to Clinton’s 46. He had a 30 percentage point lead among white voters, while Clinton led by about 85 points among black voters.

Florida, with its 29 electoral college votes, is crucial to Trump. If Clinton wins Florida, she just needs to win one of the three big swing states of Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania while Trump would have to win all three. If he wins Florida, Trump still must win both Ohio and Michigan or hope for an upset in Pennsylvania.

According to the project, Clinton enjoys the tiniest of leads in Florida, 48 percent to 47. Clinton leads Trump by 75 points among black voters and has about a 20 point lead among Hispanics. But Trump enjoys a 30 point lead among likely white voters. Clinton’s success in Florida depends on heavy turnout among black voters. Without it, the race becomes razor-thin, even with a large increase in Hispanic ballots.

Michigan and Ohio were too close to call on Sunday, according to the project. Clinton’s support is more solid in Pennsylvania. Still, a surge of white Republican voters combined with a drop in turnout among black Democrats could be enough to tilt Ohio and Michigan to Trump and put Pennsylvania in play.

If Trump remains in contention on Tuesday night after the eastern swing states have been decided, eyes will turn to Arizona. Trump led Clinton by five points on Sunday, but Arizona had moved steadily toward Clinton in recent weeks, according to the project. It is also a state where higher Hispanic turnout could tip the result in Clinton’s favour.

If Trump is in a position to win after Arizona, he could still be tripped up by Utah, where McMullin has remained a contender to the end.

Opinion polls have Trump up by five points or more in Utah. A McMullin upset could set up a low-probability scenario where neither Clinton or Trump reaches the 270 Electoral College votes needed to win. The election would then be decided by the Republican-controlled U.S. House of Representatives, where lawmakers would have a three-way choice among Trump, Clinton and McMullin, a Utah native and former CIA operative.

*10 outrageous statements made by Donald Trump*
Home / World / 10 outrageous statements made by Donald Trump
By Web Desk
November 08, 2016
Latest : World

0
0







WASHINGTON: As the world waits with bated breath to find out who assumes the role of the most powerful man in the world by becoming the next President of the United States of America, both candidates vying for the Oval Office are under the spotlight. Donald Trump, known for his blunt remarks and outrageous statements, could be the next US President. Here are ten statements made by the billionaire which have raised a few eyebrows in the past and continue to do so:-

1 If Ivanka weren't my daughter, I'd perhaps be dating her






During a talk show on a renowned channel, Trump once joked that if he weren't father to his daughter Ivanka Trump, he'd perhaps be dating her. The raunchy remark incited an awkward laugh from his daughter. 

2 Donald Trump is calling for a total shutdown of Muslims from entering the United States till our country's representatives can figure out what is happening

Taking bigotry and racism to an altogether new level, Donald Trump called for a ban on Muslims entering the United States following a terrorist attack. The statement was condemned from all quarters, including fellow Republicans who were shocked as well as disgusted at the obvious racism inflicted by Trump. 

3 All the women on The Apprentice flirted with me, consciously or unconsciously--that's to be expected

Trump made this presumptive and outrageous statement in his 2004 book How To Get Rich. Needless to say, the statement angered women around the world, with feminists urging the business tycoon to render an apology. 

4 When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime. They're rapists. 






Yes, he did label an enormous amount of Mexicans as drug dealers, criminals and rapists. Trump was gracious enough to say after bashing the whole Mexican nation that "Some, I assume, are good people". 

5 You wouldn't have your job if you weren't beautiful

Donald Trump was crude enough to say the above hurtful statement to a female reporter, right after saying that 'looks do matter'. 

6 I will build a wall and make Mexico pay for that wall

Talk about a weird manifesto. Donald J Trump actually went so far as to say that he would build a wall to keep out Mexicans and not only that but make the Mexican government pay for the expenses that would be incurred in the construction of such a wall. 

7 I am prepared to let South Korea and Japan become nuclear powers

Apparently, the potentially next US President would have no qualms with a nuclear arms race in Asia. 

8 We need unpredictability--Trump on the use of nuclear weapons

So Donald Trump apparently wants to be seen as unpredictable and ambiguous when it comes to ever using nuclear weapons. Probably not the best statement when you're trying to become the next leader of the world. 

9 I'd bring back waterboarding and a lot worse






In case you didn't know, waterboarding is a torture technique. Donald Trump said he would legalise that and, to quote him, 'a lot worse' as well. 

10 Crude statements about women in general

In a leaked video, Donald Trump can be seen and heard as well, making offensive remarks about women in general which are just too abusive to be written down.

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## maximuswarrior

Hillary is going to trounce the clown. No doubt about it. We are going to remember these elections for ever. Books are going to be written and children are going to be taught in schools. How a xenophobic, sexist islamofobe almost made it to the White House. The impact will be huge.

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## Vergennes

So,if Clinton wins,Bill will become the first lady ?

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## VCheng



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## T-Rex

terry5 said:


> latinos-blacks out in force to vote out the* racist *
> women out in force to vote out the *rapist *
> 
> Indians the number one racist and number one rapists in the world they build a temple to worship him


*
That's a good one! As it goes, birds of a feather flock together. Rapists around the globe support Trump and it's only natural.*


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## Tamilnadu

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> View attachment 350214


I guess you have for Ms.Clinton


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## F-22Raptor

Proud to say I just cast my vote!

There's 2,000 people watching this thread! Wow!

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## VCheng

The electoral vote map of USA looks like this:

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## Solomon2

*Hillary Clinton was asked a question this week prefaced with, "You've been often ahead of your time, you've been sometimes misunderstood, you've fought off a lot of prejudice…" Really, how could the questioner suck up any harder? (AP Photo/Andrew Harnik)*


*Political media need a reality check*
By WASHINGTON EXAMINER • 11/8/16 12:01 AM
The _Washington Examiner_ reported last weekend on emails released by WikiLeaks. They suggest that CNN asked the Democratic National Committee's staff for help last spring coming up with questions to put to Republican primary candidates, Donald Trump and Ted Cruz in particular.

Another leak shows CNBC's John Harwood asking Hillary Clinton's campaign team for advice on how to interrogate Jeb Bush. In an earlier WikiLeaks dump of DNC emails, Politico's Ken Vogel was caught sharing a complete advance copy of a story for DNC flaks to review, a no-no for journalists in general. And of course, it was disclosed last month that someone at CNN gave Democratic operative Donna Brazile (who has since resigned her contributor slot at the network) questions that would be asked of Clinton in televised forums, so she could warn her party's candidate in advance. Brazile duly leaked them, although she deflects questions about this disgraceful action with mumbo-jumbo excuses about the possibility of the emails having been alterered.

Is there collusion going on here? Of course there is. You don't need to delve into what happens secretly to see that. What happens in plain sight makes it clear enough. Hillary Clinton was asked a question this week prefaced with, "You've been often ahead of your time, you've been sometimes misunderstood, you've fought off a lot of prejudice…" Really? How could the interviewer suck up any harder?

Many have marveled at the way Donald Trump's supporters abuse and threaten news media figures. One does exonerate them or Trump, who has encouraged them, in pointing out the truth that their anger is not spontaneously combusting in a vacuum. It is a harvest that biased left-liberal news media have themselves sown.

Those who exoticize Trump's supporters as though they were strange beasts to marvel at like freaks in the Midway, should instead attempt honestly to understand how and why such a huge portion of the population has come to distrust and loathe the news media as enemy combatants or, rather, as spies, since they do not wear the uniform of the force they represent.

They had better start to understand this, for it will still be an issue after this election is over. When liberal and conservative writers scratch their heads over Trump's rise, they must weight the fact that the institutions for which they work are massively mistrusted by half the population.

The new leaked emails, like others before them, confirm what many believed already: that the relationship between Democrats and journalists is that between allied political activists, or between political activists and their sympathizers, rather than, as it should be, between political activists and professionally impartial observers.

Democrats have spent years framing every innocent comment from John McCain, Mitch McConnell, Mitt Romney and any other Republicans as racism or misogyny. Journalists routinely retail those absurd calumnies as though they had merit, without correcting or contradicting them the way they tend to when Trump or Republicans lob their partisan hand grenades.

Trump supporters conclude that it is just hyperbole when media, even the conservative media, depict Trump as a unique danger. The punditocracy that said it was racist to oppose Obamacare, or even to call it Obamacare, has so debased charges of racism that no one serious takes them seriously. The media have, as Bill Maher admitted last week, been crying wolf.

As a subpopulation, journalists do not think like the rest of the nation. They are overwhelmingly left-liberal in their personal views. This is not in itself damnable — conservatives are less attracted to media work than are liberals — but relatively few journalists possess sufficient self-reflection to understand the effect they have when they cannot be bothered to look at things from perspectives other than their own and, worse yet, never consider the possibility that those other perspectives may be right.

The antipathy in some conservative circles toward mainstream journalism has reached a point where it is harming the country. It may be amusing to look down on Trump's support base, but journalism must do better than amuse its practitioners. It is morally wrong for the press to write off half the country as nuts or bigots, or both. Journalists must re-establish their credibility, for it is draining away.

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## The Sandman

I think it will be Hillary this time. 
@Desert Fox @Nilgiri @XenoEnsi-14 ??

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## iPhone

This is it. Let's vote!



The Sandman said:


> I think it will be Hillary this time.
> @Desert Fox @Nilgiri @XenoEnsi-14 ??


I don't know, the FBI chief might announce another email scandal mid-day today and turn the table in Trump's favor. This crazy election anything is possible.

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## The Sandman

iPhone said:


> I don't know, the FBI chief might announce another email scandal mid-day today and turn the table in Trump's favor. This crazy election anything is possible.


Yea don't know what is wrong with FBI on whose side they're on  btw whom you voted for?


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## iPhone

The Sandman said:


> Yea don't know what is wrong with FBI on whose side they're on  btw whom you voted for?


Sorry, that's private.


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## The Sandman

iPhone said:


> Sorry, that's private.


No prob

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## cleverrider

Vergennes said:


> So,if Clinton wins,Bill will become the first lady ?



Call him billy! no one can call it with logic, just with polls done by biased media.



F-22Raptor said:


> Proud to say I just cast my vote!
> 
> There's 2,000 people watching this thread! Wow!



and the americans on the ground cant call it, we only have the media polls so far. Anything before the exist polls?


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## Śakra

F-22Raptor said:


> Proud to say I just cast my vote!
> 
> There's 2,000 people watching this thread! Wow!



Did you vote for The Donald or Crooked Hillary, if you don't mind me asking?


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## Zibago

Vergennes said:


> So,if Clinton wins,Bill will become the first lady ?


Is first Gentleman a word now?

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## Meengla

KAL-EL said:


> going to miss @RabzonKhan and @Desert Fox (among others) posting their dueling stories, meme's and other assorted things.
> 
> as I'm sure they didn't mean for some of those things to come off a little entertaining (and even sometimes comical) but they did none the less
> 
> Today I will walk into the voting booth for main presidential candidates that I have absolutely no desire for.



Yes, me too enjoyed these two gentlemen's tit-for-tat slandering photos about Trump and Hillary above! If they are banned then bring them back--till tomorrow at least?! We need some entertainment on this rather depressing elections day.

I just voted Jill Stein of the Green Party. No regrets. The vote was a lost-cause anyway otherwise would have voted Hillary if Jill was not on the ballot.

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## maximuswarrior

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> View attachment 350214



LOL you back again? I thought you left PDF.

Who did you vote for?


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## T-72

290 actually, he gets one in Maine. 

1 possible scenario for Trump.

next I'll look at some bad scenarios that favor crooked hillary.

post your maps, numbers predictions, guys !

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## cloud4000

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> View attachment 350214



No fair. I didn't get a sticker when I voted.

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## Solomon2

Meengla said:


> ...I just voted Jill Stein of the Green Party. No regrets. The vote was a lost-cause anyway otherwise would have voted Hillary if Jill was not on the ballot.


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## T-72

so, what time do the bigly swing states' results start coming in ?


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## KAL-EL

On my way to vote

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## WaLeEdK2

At this point it could go either way:


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## maximuswarrior

LMAO

http://www.thenewsminute.com/articl...nd-clinton-supporters-india-turn-prayer-52582

*Comparing Him To Nathuram Godse, Hindu Mahasabha Does Another 'Puja' For Trump Victory!*

http://m.indiatimes.com/news/world/...es-another-puja-for-trump-victory-265039.html

Ladoos were also distributed at the outfit's office after the havan. LMAO

Jantar mantar ho jaa sim sim Trump! LOL

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## A.P. Richelieu

SOHEIL said:


> Apple died with Steve jobs...



No problem!
Donald Trump has promised to bring Jobs back to America...


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## Mamluk

maximuswarrior said:


> LMAO
> 
> http://www.thenewsminute.com/articl...nd-clinton-supporters-india-turn-prayer-52582
> 
> *Comparing Him To Nathuram Godse, Hindu Mahasabha Does Another 'Puja' For Trump Victory!*



Indians hate Muslims more than they love themselves, LOL.

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## maximuswarrior

[USER=25628]@xxx[/USER][{::::::::::::::::::> said:


> Indians hate Muslims more than they love themselves, LOL.



LOL man what a characters. Absolutely gold. The whole bloody world is praying for a Trump loss. Indians are praying in their temples for a Trump win.

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## Desert Fox

T-Rex said:


> *That's a good one! As it goes, birds of a feather flock together. Rapists around the globe support Trump and it's only natural.*


And terrorists around the globe support Hillary


















The Sandman said:


> I think it will be Hillary this time.
> @Desert Fox @Nilgiri @XenoEnsi-14 ??


Lol, can't say. Like others said, its unpredictable.

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## maximuswarrior

Desert Fox said:


> And terrorists around the globe vote for Hillary
> 
> View attachment 350337
> 
> View attachment 350338
> 
> View attachment 350339
> 
> View attachment 350340​



LMAO man get some rest. You have done your Trump bidding. Just take a nap now. The most funny character on this entire forum. LMAO at the memes. You keep on posting the same memes. Get some new ones LOL


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## iPhone

T-72 said:


> so, what time do the bigly swing states' results start coming in ?


lol, bigly.


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## T-72

tremendous landslide, big league ! 

















iPhone said:


> lol, bigly.


bigly big league !

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## Akasa

Vergennes said:


> So,if Clinton wins,Bill will become the first lady ?



That requires victories for both Hillary & Monica.


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## Meengla

maximuswarrior said:


> LMAO man get some rest. You have done your Trump bidding. Just take a nap now. The most funny character on this entire forum. LMAO at the memes. You keep on posting the same memes. Get some new ones LOL



I agree. Fresh content please. And NO photos of poor Qaddafi in blood or ISIS doing beheadings. Just Hillary and Trump--like some of them above. I love the drain-the-swamp ones!

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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> tremendous landslide, big league !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bigly big league !



LOL keep up the spirit. You got a couple of hours left. It will be business as usual after that.


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## Akasa

Meengla said:


> I agree. Fresh content please. And NO photos of poor Qaddafi in blood or ISIS doing beheadings. Just Hillary and Trump--like some of them above. I love the drain-the-swamp ones!



Just out of curiosity, what made you choose Stein over Johnson or McMullin? Or does it not really matter given the obscurity of these candidates?


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## Desert Fox

*'This is a mushroom cloud waiting to happen: Jill Stein blasts 'warmonger' Hillary saying a vote for Clinton could lead to nuclear war with Russia*




*Stein, the Green Party candidate, told journalist Marc Lamont Hill Clinton's call for no-fly zone over Syria is tantamount to declaration of war against Russia *
*Said that while Donald Trump is 'a total wildcard,' Clinton has a 'proven record' of pro-conflict military policy *
*In another interview with Reason.com Sunday, Stein said: 'It's outrageous that people should be struggling right now with this questions of, “Do I prefer a fascist or a warmonger?"' *
*Stein and Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson together are drawing nearly 7 per cent in opinion polls *
Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein had some harsh words for both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump on the eve of the election, labeling the Democratic candidate a 'warmonger' and her Republican rival a 'fascist.'

Dr Stein, who is currently polling at just under 2 per cent going into Tuesday, warned in a Facebook Live conversation with journalist Marc Lamont Hill on Sunday *that if Clinton is elected president on Tuesday, Americans should be prepared to go to war with Russia.*

‘Yes, Donald Trump is a total wildcard, *but Hillary has the proven record of the most pro-conflict military policy possible,’ Stein argued.*

*The third-party presidential hopeful noted that Clinton was calling for a no-fly zone over Syria, which, she argued, was tantamount to a declaration of war against Russia*, the right-wing news site Breibart.com reported.

'Declaring war on Russia at a time when we have 2,000 nuclear weapons between us and the Russians on hair-trigger alert,’ she said. ‘This is a mushroom cloud waiting to happen.

‘This election, we are not only deciding what kind of world we will have, but whether we will have a world or not going forward.’

Stein described the acrimonious political contest between the two major party candidates as 'the race to the bottom between the greater and lesser evil.'

She added, 'there is no exit strategy if you buy into the lesser evil.'

The 66-year-old Harvard-educated physician has been vocal in her criticism of Clinton's candidacy throughout the race, repeatedly highlighting allegations of corruption that have been leveled at the Democrat, and bringing up in tweet after tweet the former first lady’s suspected ties to Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

Stein also has been intensely critical of Donald Trump’s bid for the White House.

‘We have every reason to be terrified of Donald Trump in the White House,’ Stein said in an interview with Reason.com last week. ‘But I don't think we should fool ourselves into thinking that we should sleep well at night with Hillary Clinton in the White House either.

‘They're both dangerous and unacceptable in different ways.’

In that interview, Stein took aim at America’s two-party system, in which voters are being forced to choose between two candidates they do not like, and argued that supporters of the Green Party and libertarians should work together to create a viable third party.

‘It's outrageous that people should be struggling right now with this questions of, “Do I prefer a fascist or a warmonger?"’ said Stein.

Stein and Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson together are drawing nearly 7 per cent in opinion polls, far more than normal for those parties.

Clinton will go into Election Day with a razor-thin lead of 2.2 points over Trump, according to the RealClearPolitics.



@T-72 @Nilgiri @C130 @Falcon29 @KAL-EL

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## Meengla

SinoSoldier said:


> Just out of curiosity, what made you choose Stein over Johnson or McMullin? Or does it not really matter given the obscurity of these candidates?



I am a liberal--very different from Libertarians, who, in my opinion, are Social Darwinists. I believe in a just society where there is better distribution of wealth. Jill Stein is ideal as is Green Party. 

In my State, it's all Trump, so my vote for Hillary wouldn't matter anyway. I had supported Nader in 2000. Now back to supporting Green Party. My conscience clean. If Hillary is going to start another war.. well--I didn't vote for her.

As for Trump--the less said the better. I will leave that up to some other ruthless fellows on this forum

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## maximuswarrior

Desert Fox said:


> *'This is a mushroom cloud waiting to happen: Jill Stein blasts 'warmonger' Hillary saying a vote for Clinton could lead to nuclear war with Russia*
> 
> View attachment 350345​
> *Stein, the Green Party candidate, told journalist Marc Lamont Hill Clinton's call for no-fly zone over Syria is tantamount to declaration of war against Russia *
> *Said that while Donald Trump is 'a total wildcard,' Clinton has a 'proven record' of pro-conflict military policy *
> *In another interview with Reason.com Sunday, Stein said: 'It's outrageous that people should be struggling right now with this questions of, “Do I prefer a fascist or a warmonger?"' *
> *Stein and Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson together are drawing nearly 7 per cent in opinion polls *
> Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein had some harsh words for both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump on the eve of the election, labeling the Democratic candidate a 'warmonger' and her Republican rival a 'fascist.'
> 
> Dr Stein, who is currently polling at just under 2 per cent going into Tuesday, warned in a Facebook Live conversation with journalist Marc Lamont Hill on Sunday *that if Clinton is elected president on Tuesday, Americans should be prepared to go to war with Russia.*
> 
> ‘Yes, Donald Trump is a total wildcard, *but Hillary has the proven record of the most pro-conflict military policy possible,’ Stein argued.*
> 
> *The third-party presidential hopeful noted that Clinton was calling for a no-fly zone over Syria, which, she argued, was tantamount to a declaration of war against Russia*, the right-wing news site Breibart.com reported.
> 
> 'Declaring war on Russia at a time when we have 2,000 nuclear weapons between us and the Russians on hair-trigger alert,’ she said. ‘This is a mushroom cloud waiting to happen.
> 
> ‘This election, we are not only deciding what kind of world we will have, but whether we will have a world or not going forward.’
> 
> Stein described the acrimonious political contest between the two major party candidates as 'the race to the bottom between the greater and lesser evil.'
> 
> She added, 'there is no exit strategy if you buy into the lesser evil.'
> 
> The 66-year-old Harvard-educated physician has been vocal in her criticism of Clinton's candidacy throughout the race, repeatedly highlighting allegations of corruption that have been leveled at the Democrat, and bringing up in tweet after tweet the former first lady’s suspected ties to Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
> 
> Stein also has been intensely critical of Donald Trump’s bid for the White House.
> 
> ‘We have every reason to be terrified of Donald Trump in the White House,’ Stein said in an interview with Reason.com last week. ‘But I don't think we should fool ourselves into thinking that we should sleep well at night with Hillary Clinton in the White House either.
> 
> ‘They're both dangerous and unacceptable in different ways.’
> 
> In that interview, Stein took aim at America’s two-party system, in which voters are being forced to choose between two candidates they do not like, and argued that supporters of the Green Party and libertarians should work together to create a viable third party.
> 
> ‘It's outrageous that people should be struggling right now with this questions of, “Do I prefer a fascist or a warmonger?"’ said Stein.
> 
> Stein and Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson together are drawing nearly 7 per cent in opinion polls, far more than normal for those parties.
> 
> Clinton will go into Election Day with a razor-thin lead of 2.2 points over Trump, according to the RealClearPolitics.
> 
> 
> 
> @T-72 @Nilgiri @C130 @Falcon29 @KAL-EL



LOL why are you so excited by this article? Jill calls both candidates unsuitable. In other words, both the Americans and the world are screwed with any candidate in power. One is a warmonger and the other a fascist. Hardly a reason to cheer.


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## Akasa

Meengla said:


> I am a liberal--very different from Libertarians, who, in my opinion, are Social Darwinists. I believe in a just society where there is better distribution of wealth. Jill Stein is ideal as is Green Party.
> 
> In my State, it's all Trump, so my vote for Hillary wouldn't matter anyway. I had supported Nader in 2000. Now back to supporting Green Party. My conscience clean. *If Hillary is going to start another war.. well--I didn't vote for her.*
> 
> As for Trump--the less said the better. I will leave that up to some other ruthless fellows on this forum



Can't say that you voted for the wrong person (in correspondence to your beliefs), since Stein plans to cut military spending by 50%. 
My presumption is that you would've voted for Sanders had he not lost to Hillary?


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## SOHEIL

A.P. Richelieu said:


> No problem!
> Donald Trump has promised to bring Jobs back to America...


----------



## maximuswarrior

neonbiz said:


> 4 years of killery means, destruction to the world in greater scale than observed during bomaba tenure.



You expect a green Shire during Trump's reign?


----------



## T-72

we'll also find out if this truly was the first social media and interwebs driven US presidential election or not, live stream numbers for their final rallies on youtube read 70k for Trump's final rally vs 3.5k for the Clinton event. Rally crowds wise too, he was filling stadiums size venues right from the primaries (smashing ZZ Top and Elton John etc attendance records on the way) 

and the tweets ! at times only a few hundred would retweet crooked hillary while countless tens of thousands shared and upvoted his blurts 

a Trump loss will be such an anticlimax

Reactions: Like Like:
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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> we'll also find out if this truly was the first social media and interwebs driven US presidential election or not, live stream numbers for their final rallies on youtube read 70k for Trump's final rally vs 3.5k for the Clinton event. Rally crowds wise too, he was filling stadiums size venues right from the primaries (smashing ZZ Top and Elton John etc attendance records on the way)
> 
> and the tweets ! at times only a few hundred would retweet crooked hillary while countless tens of thousands shared and upvoted his blurts
> 
> a Trump loss will be such an anticlimax



LOL don't worry man. We'll see whether those filled stadiums benefit Trump today. If not, the gatherings were all amusement LOL all the tweets and social media support. All going to waste.


----------



## Russell



Reactions: Like Like:
5


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## maximuswarrior

Technogaianist said:


> I can't wait to close this thread and put a moratorium on US politics until the swearing-in of the next president on January 20th (or 21st depending on what day the 20th falls).
> 
> The amount of garbage here is overwhelming. Not now, but soon. It'll be closed soon enough.



LOL Enjoy while it lasts. Chill. It is what it is. After all, no one can blame the forum members for the absurd claims made by a specific presidential candidate. The internet is awash with US election.



Russell said:


>



LOL look at orange head take a peak. He doesn't trust her.


----------



## RabzonKhan

Note, most of the racist scumbags support the madman.
Some interesting parts of the article:


*
What the World Thinks About the 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

The world has been watching the race unfold
*
The world has been watching the U.S. presidential election with a mix of fascination and horror. Many appear to believe a Hillary Clinton presidency would provide the stability needed in an increasingly volatile world, but some foreign players are rooting for a Donald Trump victory. Here, TIME’s staff in bureaus around the world round up what foreign politicians, experts and citizens are saying about the U.S. election:

*EUROPE*

Clinton would win by a landslide if Europeans had a vote, _Tara John writes_, helped in part by the popularity of U.S. President Barack Obama and the socially democratic continent’s history of favoring Democrats. Trump’s transition from reality show star to political candidate could not be further from Europe’s technocratic approach to governance. His foreign policy, which includes the renegotiation of NATO’s budget and a hint that he would not defend NATO allies under attack, has raised hackles. German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier called Trump a preacher of hate in August, an October poll by Infratest Dimap found that only 4% of Germans would vote for him compared to Clinton (86%) while the Hamburger _Morgenpost_ implored on its Nov. 8 cover, “Please, not the Horror Clown!”

*Despite the populist parallels between Trump’s rise and the U.K. vote to leave the E.U., more than half a million Brits signed a petition calling for Trump to be banned from entering the U.K. and Scottish National Party leader Nicola Sturgeon said she “fervently hoped” that Clinton would defeat the Republican candidate.* Trump has found some allies among Europe’s nationalist parties, however — their uptick in popularity has mirrored his, with similar messages about immigration eroding jobs and national identity. *France’s far-right National Front leader Marine Le Pen told Valeurs Actuelles that she would vote for Trump.* “What appeals to Americans is that he is a man free from Wall Street, from markets and from financial lobbies and even from his own party,” she said. *Nigel Farage, the interim leader of the U.K. Independence Party, and anti-Islam, far-right politician from the Netherlands, Geert Wilders, have each supported Trump on his U.S. campaign.*

*THE MIDDLE EAST*

Trump will further destabilise the Arab world, writes TIME’s Middle East Bureau Chief Jared Malsin:

Most people in the Middle East have a dim view of the U.S. government, but they seem to have an even lower opinion of Trump. Trump’s anti-immigrant rhetoric and his past calls for a ban on Muslims entering the U.S. have aliened the vast majority of the public across the Arab world. In one poll of more than 3,000 people across the Middle East and North Africa, 47 percent said they would simply refuse to vote in the U.S. presidential election if they were given the chance. The survey, conducted by YouGov and the Saudi newspaper Arab News found that, among those who would vote, 44 percent would choose Hillary Clinton, over Trump’s 9 percent. Fully 78 percent said Clinton would be better for the region if elected.

A separate survey released in October by the Arab Center in Washington posed similar questions about the election to 3,600 people in nine Arab countries. Fifty six percent of those surveyed had positive views of Clinton. Sixty percent had negative views of Trump.

In Israel, opinion is more divided. A recent poll conducted by Shiluv Millward Brown found the majority of Jewish Israelis (41%) favored Clinton as president over her Republican rival (31%). Israelis, however, thought Trump would “benefit” the Jewish state more. Clinton’s pro-Israeli and hawkish rhetoric during her tenureship as Secretary of State has leant her some authority on Israel. But Trump’s attempts to drum up support in Israel— by endorsing settlement expansion in the West Bank and promising to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem— has worked. He gained a slight edge (49%) over Clinton (44%) among dual Israeli-American citizens who cast their absentee ballots from Israel, according to a Nov. 3 exit survey .

*LATIN AMERICA*

Unsurprisingly, Trump, for all his proclamations about loving ‘Hispanics’, is not popular across Latin America, _Kate Samuelson writes_. The Republican candidate has been described by Mexico’s major national newspaper, _Milenio_, as “the man who managed to make us miss the Bush clan,” as well as the “undisputed record-holder for fake tanning”. Last Easter, celebrants burned effigies of Trump instead of Judas and, in a speech in March, President Enrique Peña Nieto compared his leadership race to the way the fascist dictators Mussolini and Hitler came to power. According to a poll published in Mexico in late September, Mexicans favor Clinton in the race by 10 to 1.

Trump vowing to stand with ‘oppressed’ Cubans and Venezuelans has not helped his popularity in those regions either, neither with the people nor politicians (Venezuela’s President Nicolás Maduro called Trump “mentally ill” last year). However, the Democratic National Committee also came under fire in Venezuela last month for posting a video that compared Trump to the late President Hugo Chavez. “The election campaign in the U.S. reflects the profound ethical, moral and political crisis of a degraded system that turns its back on the people,” Foreign Minister Delcy Rodriguez wrote on Twitter. “Comparing candidate Trump with Commander Chavez is an expression of the racist arrogance and irrationality of a party that does not serve its constituents.”

In the presidential debate on Oct. 19, Trump spoke about visiting “Little Haiti in Florida”. “I want to tell you, they hate the Clintons, because what’s happened in Haiti with the Clinton Foundation is a disgrace. And you know it, and they know it, and everybody knows it,” he said. Indeed, many people identify the Clintons with failures of humanitarianism and development in Haiti following the devastating earthquake in 2010; in 2015, Haitian activists protested outside the Clinton Foundation in New York, claiming the Clintons mismanaged hundreds of millions in taxpayer money through the Interim Haiti Reconstruction Commission, the _Washington Post_reports. But, despite fair criticism of the Clintons’ handling of the crisis, Trump’s interest in using Haiti to bash Clinton rather than anything else is transparent. Research conducted by the _Miami New Times_ in the area concluded that Little Haiti residents were unwaveringly in favor of Clinton – despite what Trump said. *Read more*

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## C130

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 350349
> 
> 
> 
> Note, most of the racist scumbags support the madman.
> Some interesting parts of the article:
> 
> 
> *
> What the World Thinks About the 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
> 
> The world has been watching the race unfold
> *
> The world has been watching the U.S. presidential election with a mix of fascination and horror. Many appear to believe a Hillary Clinton presidency would provide the stability needed in an increasingly volatile world, but some foreign players are rooting for a Donald Trump victory. Here, TIME’s staff in bureaus around the world round up what foreign politicians, experts and citizens are saying about the U.S. election:
> 
> *EUROPE*
> 
> Clinton would win by a landslide if Europeans had a vote, _Tara John writes_, helped in part by the popularity of U.S. President Barack Obama and the socially democratic continent’s history of favoring Democrats. Trump’s transition from reality show star to political candidate could not be further from Europe’s technocratic approach to governance. His foreign policy, which includes the renegotiation of NATO’s budget and a hint that he would not defend NATO allies under attack, has raised hackles. German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier called Trump a preacher of hate in August, an October poll by Infratest Dimap found that only 4% of Germans would vote for him compared to Clinton (86%) while the Hamburger _Morgenpost_ implored on its Nov. 8 cover, “Please, not the Horror Clown!”
> 
> *Despite the populist parallels between Trump’s rise and the U.K. vote to leave the E.U., more than half a million Brits signed a petition calling for Trump to be banned from entering the U.K. and Scottish National Party leader Nicola Sturgeon said she “fervently hoped” that Clinton would defeat the Republican candidate.* Trump has found some allies among Europe’s nationalist parties, however — their uptick in popularity has mirrored his, with similar messages about immigration eroding jobs and national identity. *France’s far-right National Front leader Marine Le Pen told Valeurs Actuelles that she would vote for Trump.* “What appeals to Americans is that he is a man free from Wall Street, from markets and from financial lobbies and even from his own party,” she said. *Nigel Farage, the interim leader of the U.K. Independence Party, and anti-Islam, far-right politician from the Netherlands, Geert Wilders, have each supported Trump on his U.S. campaign.*
> 
> *THE MIDDLE EAST*
> 
> Trump will further destabilise the Arab world, writes TIME’s Middle East Bureau Chief Jared Malsin:
> 
> Most people in the Middle East have a dim view of the U.S. government, but they seem to have an even lower opinion of Trump. Trump’s anti-immigrant rhetoric and his past calls for a ban on Muslims entering the U.S. have aliened the vast majority of the public across the Arab world. In one poll of more than 3,000 people across the Middle East and North Africa, 47 percent said they would simply refuse to vote in the U.S. presidential election if they were given the chance. The survey, conducted by YouGov and the Saudi newspaper Arab News found that, among those who would vote, 44 percent would choose Hillary Clinton, over Trump’s 9 percent. Fully 78 percent said Clinton would be better for the region if elected.
> 
> A separate survey released in October by the Arab Center in Washington posed similar questions about the election to 3,600 people in nine Arab countries. Fifty six percent of those surveyed had positive views of Clinton. Sixty percent had negative views of Trump.
> 
> In Israel, opinion is more divided. A recent poll conducted by Shiluv Millward Brown found the majority of Jewish Israelis (41%) favored Clinton as president over her Republican rival (31%). Israelis, however, thought Trump would “benefit” the Jewish state more. Clinton’s pro-Israeli and hawkish rhetoric during her tenureship as Secretary of State has leant her some authority on Israel. But Trump’s attempts to drum up support in Israel— by endorsing settlement expansion in the West Bank and promising to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem— has worked. He gained a slight edge (49%) over Clinton (44%) among dual Israeli-American citizens who cast their absentee ballots from Israel, according to a Nov. 3 exit survey .
> 
> *LATIN AMERICA*
> 
> Unsurprisingly, Trump, for all his proclamations about loving ‘Hispanics’, is not popular across Latin America, _Kate Samuelson writes_. The Republican candidate has been described by Mexico’s major national newspaper, _Milenio_, as “the man who managed to make us miss the Bush clan,” as well as the “undisputed record-holder for fake tanning”. Last Easter, celebrants burned effigies of Trump instead of Judas and, in a speech in March, President Enrique Peña Nieto compared his leadership race to the way the fascist dictators Mussolini and Hitler came to power. According to a poll published in Mexico in late September, Mexicans favor Clinton in the race by 10 to 1.
> 
> Trump vowing to stand with ‘oppressed’ Cubans and Venezuelans has not helped his popularity in those regions either, neither with the people nor politicians (Venezuela’s President Nicolás Maduro called Trump “mentally ill” last year). However, the Democratic National Committee also came under fire in Venezuela last month for posting a video that compared Trump to the late President Hugo Chavez. “The election campaign in the U.S. reflects the profound ethical, moral and political crisis of a degraded system that turns its back on the people,” Foreign Minister Delcy Rodriguez wrote on Twitter. “Comparing candidate Trump with Commander Chavez is an expression of the racist arrogance and irrationality of a party that does not serve its constituents.”
> 
> In the presidential debate on Oct. 19, Trump spoke about visiting “Little Haiti in Florida”. “I want to tell you, they hate the Clintons, because what’s happened in Haiti with the Clinton Foundation is a disgrace. And you know it, and they know it, and everybody knows it,” he said. Indeed, many people identify the Clintons with failures of humanitarianism and development in Haiti following the devastating earthquake in 2010; in 2015, Haitian activists protested outside the Clinton Foundation in New York, claiming the Clintons mismanaged hundreds of millions in taxpayer money through the Interim Haiti Reconstruction Commission, the _Washington Post_reports. But, despite fair criticism of the Clintons’ handling of the crisis, Trump’s interest in using Haiti to bash Clinton rather than anything else is transparent. Research conducted by the _Miami New Times_ in the area concluded that Little Haiti residents were unwaveringly in favor of Clinton – despite what Trump said. *Read more*



Trump is Hitler meme is ridiculous.


and Hitler was alright til he wanted to invade countries and take their resources. If he had just focused on Making Germany Great Again through trade then Germany would have been a superpower.

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## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL don't worry man. We'll see whether those filled stadiums benefit Trump today. If not, the gatherings were all amusement LOL all those tweets and social media support. All going to waste.


yeah, guess we'll all know in about 5 or 6 hours from now..

and no, none of it is a waste, a Trump loss probably means the right wing there splits right down the middle, RIP GOP

there going to be all sorts of fractures and groups and factions forming there, Trumpian nationalism vs whatever the hell the #nevertrumpers come up with, it'll continue to be interesting for a while but eventually fade out as an internal issue for the US, this right now is much more fun.


----------



## Russell

C130 said:


> Trump is Hitler meme is ridiculous.


Yeah...he has support from neo nazis and white supremacists...the KKK. But, the wrinkly comb over bastard isn't Hitler. It's a bit disingenuous and unfair to compare him with Old Adolf


----------



## maximuswarrior

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 350349
> 
> 
> 
> Note, most of the racist scumbags support the madman.
> Some interesting parts of the article:
> 
> 
> *
> What the World Thinks About the 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
> 
> The world has been watching the race unfold
> *
> The world has been watching the U.S. presidential election with a mix of fascination and horror. Many appear to believe a Hillary Clinton presidency would provide the stability needed in an increasingly volatile world, but some foreign players are rooting for a Donald Trump victory. Here, TIME’s staff in bureaus around the world round up what foreign politicians, experts and citizens are saying about the U.S. election:
> 
> *EUROPE*
> 
> Clinton would win by a landslide if Europeans had a vote, _Tara John writes_, helped in part by the popularity of U.S. President Barack Obama and the socially democratic continent’s history of favoring Democrats. Trump’s transition from reality show star to political candidate could not be further from Europe’s technocratic approach to governance. His foreign policy, which includes the renegotiation of NATO’s budget and a hint that he would not defend NATO allies under attack, has raised hackles. German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier called Trump a preacher of hate in August, an October poll by Infratest Dimap found that only 4% of Germans would vote for him compared to Clinton (86%) while the Hamburger _Morgenpost_ implored on its Nov. 8 cover, “Please, not the Horror Clown!”
> 
> *Despite the populist parallels between Trump’s rise and the U.K. vote to leave the E.U., more than half a million Brits signed a petition calling for Trump to be banned from entering the U.K. and Scottish National Party leader Nicola Sturgeon said she “fervently hoped” that Clinton would defeat the Republican candidate.* Trump has found some allies among Europe’s nationalist parties, however — their uptick in popularity has mirrored his, with similar messages about immigration eroding jobs and national identity. *France’s far-right National Front leader Marine Le Pen told Valeurs Actuelles that she would vote for Trump.* “What appeals to Americans is that he is a man free from Wall Street, from markets and from financial lobbies and even from his own party,” she said. *Nigel Farage, the interim leader of the U.K. Independence Party, and anti-Islam, far-right politician from the Netherlands, Geert Wilders, have each supported Trump on his U.S. campaign.*
> 
> *THE MIDDLE EAST*
> 
> Trump will further destabilise the Arab world, writes TIME’s Middle East Bureau Chief Jared Malsin:
> 
> Most people in the Middle East have a dim view of the U.S. government, but they seem to have an even lower opinion of Trump. Trump’s anti-immigrant rhetoric and his past calls for a ban on Muslims entering the U.S. have aliened the vast majority of the public across the Arab world. In one poll of more than 3,000 people across the Middle East and North Africa, 47 percent said they would simply refuse to vote in the U.S. presidential election if they were given the chance. The survey, conducted by YouGov and the Saudi newspaper Arab News found that, among those who would vote, 44 percent would choose Hillary Clinton, over Trump’s 9 percent. Fully 78 percent said Clinton would be better for the region if elected.
> 
> A separate survey released in October by the Arab Center in Washington posed similar questions about the election to 3,600 people in nine Arab countries. Fifty six percent of those surveyed had positive views of Clinton. Sixty percent had negative views of Trump.
> 
> In Israel, opinion is more divided. A recent poll conducted by Shiluv Millward Brown found the majority of Jewish Israelis (41%) favored Clinton as president over her Republican rival (31%). Israelis, however, thought Trump would “benefit” the Jewish state more. Clinton’s pro-Israeli and hawkish rhetoric during her tenureship as Secretary of State has leant her some authority on Israel. But Trump’s attempts to drum up support in Israel— by endorsing settlement expansion in the West Bank and promising to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem— has worked. He gained a slight edge (49%) over Clinton (44%) among dual Israeli-American citizens who cast their absentee ballots from Israel, according to a Nov. 3 exit survey .
> 
> *LATIN AMERICA*
> 
> Unsurprisingly, Trump, for all his proclamations about loving ‘Hispanics’, is not popular across Latin America, _Kate Samuelson writes_. The Republican candidate has been described by Mexico’s major national newspaper, _Milenio_, as “the man who managed to make us miss the Bush clan,” as well as the “undisputed record-holder for fake tanning”. Last Easter, celebrants burned effigies of Trump instead of Judas and, in a speech in March, President Enrique Peña Nieto compared his leadership race to the way the fascist dictators Mussolini and Hitler came to power. According to a poll published in Mexico in late September, Mexicans favor Clinton in the race by 10 to 1.
> 
> Trump vowing to stand with ‘oppressed’ Cubans and Venezuelans has not helped his popularity in those regions either, neither with the people nor politicians (Venezuela’s President Nicolás Maduro called Trump “mentally ill” last year). However, the Democratic National Committee also came under fire in Venezuela last month for posting a video that compared Trump to the late President Hugo Chavez. “The election campaign in the U.S. reflects the profound ethical, moral and political crisis of a degraded system that turns its back on the people,” Foreign Minister Delcy Rodriguez wrote on Twitter. “Comparing candidate Trump with Commander Chavez is an expression of the racist arrogance and irrationality of a party that does not serve its constituents.”
> 
> In the presidential debate on Oct. 19, Trump spoke about visiting “Little Haiti in Florida”. “I want to tell you, they hate the Clintons, because what’s happened in Haiti with the Clinton Foundation is a disgrace. And you know it, and they know it, and everybody knows it,” he said. Indeed, many people identify the Clintons with failures of humanitarianism and development in Haiti following the devastating earthquake in 2010; in 2015, Haitian activists protested outside the Clinton Foundation in New York, claiming the Clintons mismanaged hundreds of millions in taxpayer money through the Interim Haiti Reconstruction Commission, the _Washington Post_reports. But, despite fair criticism of the Clintons’ handling of the crisis, Trump’s interest in using Haiti to bash Clinton rather than anything else is transparent. Research conducted by the _Miami New Times_ in the area concluded that Little Haiti residents were unwaveringly in favor of Clinton – despite what Trump said. *Read more*


 
No doubt. Trump has tendency of a mini-Hitler if not a full one. The same hateful rhetoric against minorities.

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## C130

Russell said:


> Yeah...he has support from neo nazis and white supremacists...the KKK. But, the wrinkly comb over bastard isn't Hitler. It's a bit disingenuous and unfair to compare him with Old Adolf



so they support Trump, does that mean Trump supports them?

he's already denounced David Duke who has been riding his coat tails.


----------



## Russell

C130 said:


> so they support Trump, does that mean Trump supports them?


Ummm I'm agreeing with you! I said it was unfair to compare him to Hitler


----------



## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> yeah, guess we'll all know in about 5 or 6 hours from now..
> 
> and no, none of it is a waste, a Trump loss probably means the right wing there splits right down the middle, RIP GOP
> 
> there going to be all sorts of fractures and groups and factions forming there, Trumpian nationalism vs whatever the hell the #nevertrumpers come up with, it'll continue to be interesting for a while but eventually fade out as an internal issue for the US, this right now is much more fun.



All rhetoric aside. Trump has not only divided and fractured GOP. He has also divided the USA. That is a major achievement.


----------



## C130

Russell said:


> Ummm I'm agreeing with you! I said it was unfair to compare him to Hitler



I know.. just saying neo-nazis and the KKK are irrelevant even if they support Trump. there is what like less than a thousand KKK members, and maybe a few thousand die hard neo-nazis.....meanwhile you had the New Black Panther Party who supported Obama and even came out in force to intimidate voters at the polling stations in 2008/12.



maximuswarrior said:


> All rhetoric aside. Trump has not only divided and fractured GOP. He has also divided the USA. That is a major achievement.




GOP is a joke especially the Neocon faction.

Ted Cruz, John Kasich, and Jeb wouldn't have done any better against Hillary


----------



## maximuswarrior

C130 said:


> I know.. just saying neo-nazis and the KKK are irrelevant even if they support Trump. there is what like less than a thousand KKK members, and maybe a few thousand die hard neo-nazis.....meanwhile you had the New Black Panther Party who supported Obama and even came out in force to intimidate voters at the polling stations in 2008/12.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GOP is a joke especially the Neocon faction.
> 
> Ted Cruze, John Kasich, and Jeb wouldn't have done any better against Hillary



Ted Cruz and Jeb perhaps not. Kasich is a different animal though. Don't underestimate his candidacy against Hillary's. Kasich was the most well-spoken and suitable candidate to take on Hillary.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

C130 said:


> Trump is Hitler meme is ridiculous.
> 
> 
> and Hitler was alright til he wanted to invade countries and take their resources. If he had just focused on Making Germany Great Again through trade then Germany would have been a superpower.



Hitler stated his plans early on, so a peaceful Germany was never an option with him on top.
Trump is attacking the core of the US democratic process, and a lot of Americans seems to 
think a second civil war would be a good outcome.

I guess we will have to accept a lot of redneck refugees in the future, but maybe they want to go elsewhere...

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## Meengla

SinoSoldier said:


> Can't say that you voted for the wrong person (in correspondence to your beliefs), since Stein plans to cut military spending by 50%.
> *My presumption is that you would've voted for Sanders had he not lost to Hillary?*



Yes, absolutely, it would be Sanders. But I'd have voted for Hillary if Stein was not running.


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## terry5

Trump won't be allowed to win as he's not "establishment". There was never a race, only a charade.

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## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> All rhetoric aside. Trump has not only divided and fractured GOP. He has also divided the USA. That is a major achievement.


na, just tapped into something others hadn't dared to go near.


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## Desert Fox



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## Meengla

C130 said:


> Trump is Hitler meme is ridiculous.



I agree. The mustache doesn't match. Hahahaha! 

But, seriously, Trump is not even a Hitler. Hitler had some convictions of his own. Fought and suffered. Put in jail. Wrote a long book. Revived Germany's economy. Damn near took the rest of the world to beat him. However vile his ideas were--he was not a puny person in any sense of the word.

But for Trump and his followers: Once again, I present this to you this video--and I HAVE seen some scary creatures barely 60+ drive from American home--like the following. 
[Tang, tang tang tang tang tang tang... ding ding ding ding ding ding ding DING!...]


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## Desert Fox



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## KAL-EL



Reactions: Like Like:
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## T-123456

KAL-EL said:


> View attachment 350369


Im sure you voted for Obama 2.O.


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## Meengla

maximuswarrior said:


> Ted Cruz and Jeb perhaps not. Kasich is a different animal though. Don't underestimate his candidacy against Hillary's. Kasich was the most well-spoken and suitable candidate to take on Hillary.



Yes, Hillary is quite unpopular even among many, many Democrats. Look at me: I voted for Green Party because of Hillary. Had it been Sanders it would be very easy decision for me. GOP was forced to accept Trump by the masses. A Kasich candidacy against Hillary will be very powerful.

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## anon45

terry5 said:


> Trump won't be allowed to win as he's not "establishment". There was never a race, only a charade.




How convenient. 

What of the Tea Party? That was not establishment either.

Why did Trump win the primary if it's rigged? 

Why not an establishment candidate?


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## Desert Fox

@Nilgiri @T-72 @C130 @KAL-EL

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## XenoEnsi-14

The Sandman said:


> I think it will be Hillary this time.
> @Desert Fox @Nilgiri @XenoEnsi-14 ??


Could you jinx Trump too? I left it up to the sheep to decide, and voted Gary.

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## The Sandman

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> Could you jinx Trump too? I left it up to the sheep to decide, and voted Gary.


Why not go for Jill stein :p

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## RabzonKhan

Meengla said:


> Yes, Hillary is quite unpopular even among many, many Democrats. Look at me: I voted for Green Party because of Hillary. Had it been Sanders it would be very easy decision for me. GOP was forced to accept Trump by the masses. A Kasich candidacy against Hillary will be very powerful.


Meengla, I have a question, what if one of Pakistani politician running for PM elections went to India during the campaign as Indian government’s guest and from there criticized Pakistan's human rights and other policies, would you vote for him/her?

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## Vergennes

Quit sad that politics today is resumed to choosing the less worst than the best.

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## Meengla

RabzonKhan said:


> Meengla, I have a question, what if one of Pakistani politician running for PM elections went to India during the campaign as Indian government’s guest and from there criticized Pakistan's human rights and other policies, would you vote for him/her?



Let's not derail this thread, shall we? Let's leave for another time. This is a historic elections and we should focus on American elections; the whole world is watching the elections and whatever we write here will surely be recorded for history (maybe in some data banks on Mars!).


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## RabzonKhan

Meengla said:


> Let's not derail this thread, shall we? Let's leave for another time. This is a historic elections and we should focus on American elections; the whole world is watching the elections and whatever we write here will surely be recorded for history (maybe in some data banks on Mars!).


Actually, it is about American elections.


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## Desert Fox



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## Fawad Sadique

RabzonKhan said:


> Actually, it is about American elections.


----------



## maximuswarrior

Desert Fox said:


> @Nilgiri @T-72 @C130 @KAL-EL
> 
> View attachment 350375
> 
> 
> View attachment 350370
> 
> 
> View attachment 350372
> 
> 
> View attachment 350371
> 
> 
> View attachment 350373
> 
> 
> View attachment 350374



LMAO keep it up man. This is your last chance to post the memes. Make most of the opportunity. Keep posting some new stuff.


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## Fawad Sadique

RabzonKhan you are right. It is about American Elections. Actually Meengla did not know what to answer. People like her live in a fools paradise. I am sure she herself is confused about the Elections. Someone shud explain her where the elections are actually taking place.


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## Meengla

RabzonKhan said:


> Actually, it is about American elections.



Alright, please eleborate?
BTW, I voted for Jill Stein. Here..here's a proof I voted today! The T Shirt is of a rock band.


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## Fawad Sadique

Fawad Sadique said:


> RabzonKhan you are right. It is about American Elections. Actually Meengla did not know what to answer. People like her live in a fools paradise. I am sure she herself is confused about the Elections. Someone shud explain her where the elections are actually taking place.


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## XenoEnsi-14

The Sandman said:


> Why not go for Jill stein :p


It 's the large Third party running in the elections. He has the same number of available Electoral College votes as the Republican and Democrat candidates. 

Plus, I'm not a tree hugger.... I'm all for clean energy and stuff, but that shouldn't be politicized.

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## RabzonKhan

Meengla said:


> Alright, please eleborate?
> BTW, I voted for Jill Stein. Here..here's a proof I voted today! The T Shirt is of a rock band.
> 
> View attachment 350386


I was talking about Jill Stein, she went to Russia during the campaign and from there criticize United States human rights and foreign policy. Just like Trump, she is also spreading false Russian propaganda that if Hillary is elected she’ll start a war with Russia.


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## Desert Fox



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## Desert Fox




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## Meengla

RabzonKhan said:


> I was talking about Jill Stein, she went to Russia during the campaign and from there criticize United States human rights and foreign policy. Just like Trump, she is also spreading false Russian propaganda that if Hillary is elected she’ll start a war with Russia.



I see. Well, Hillary DOES have a rather long track record of being a 'hawk' and it doesn't need anyone to be Putin or Jill Stein or it does need cryptic references to being a Pakistani PM in India criticising Pakistan to call a spade a spade! I don't care who said that or where or how. And you should be more direct next time in any questions or insinuations. 

Having said that, I have voted for Jill but would have voted for Hillary if Jill was not around. In my State, it is an absolutely lost vote for Hillary or Jill--but at least I have my conscience clear.

And, yes, Hillary has repeatedly shown wanting to be aggressive in Syria and one has to draw conclusions from there.

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## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> View attachment 350397
> 
> 
> View attachment 350398
> 
> 
> View attachment 350399


Come on man, have some standards, stop posting garbage.

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## Meengla

Desert Fox said:


> View attachment 350397
> 
> 
> View attachment 350398
> 
> 
> View attachment 350399



You are too much fun! Keep it up--tomorrow work on some funeral images


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## Desert Fox



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## Desert Fox

Meengla said:


> You are too much fun! Keep it up--tomorrow work on some funeral images



 will do.

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## KAL-EL

Meengla said:


> You are too much fun! Keep it up--tomorrow work on some funeral images



I'm going to miss this thread


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## The Sandman

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> Plus, I'm not a tree hugger.... I'm all for clean *energy and stuff, but that shouldn't be politicized*.


I agree

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## XenoEnsi-14

KAL-EL said:


> I'm going to miss this thread


----------



## AMDR

http://www.slate.com/votecastr_election_day_turnout_tracker.html <------- live estimated turnout tracker

Clinton is closing in on the W if this track holds. If she gets FL, its over.

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## Desert Fox



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## RabzonKhan

*Florida Democrats hold 90,000 early vote lead, but will it carry Clinton to White House?*

By MARC CAPUTO 11/08/16

MIAMI — Election Day dawned in the nation’s biggest battleground state with Florida Democrats out-voting Republicans by about 90,000 early ballots cast before the polls opened Tuesday — a potentially big, but not insurmountable lead, that could help Hillary Clinton win the White House.

On a percentage basis, the Democratic advantage over Republicans was small as of Tuesday morning — 1.4 percentage points of the 6.5 million in-person early and mail-in absentee ballots. 

Though the votes won’t be tallied until Tuesday night, party registration strongly correlates with support for the top-of-the-ticket candidates. So the early vote totals help gauge the relative campaign strengths of Clinton and Donald Trump heading into Election Day. *Read more*


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## JanjaWeed

Red states seems to be off the blocks pretty quick..Kentucky & Indiana goes to Trump!

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## RabzonKhan

*



*


*What time do polls close? 2016 poll closing times by state (map)*


*Expected times are listed in Eastern Standard Time as provided by The Associated Press on Aug. 19.
*

First poll closing times by state

6 p.m. - Indiana, Kentucky

7 p.m. - Alabama, Florida, Georgia, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Vermont, Virginia

7:30 p.m. - North Carolina, Ohio, West Virginia

8 p.m. - Connecticut, Delaware, D.C., Illinois, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, New Jersey, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas

8:30 p.m. - Arkansas

9 p.m. - Arizona, Colorado, Louisiana, Minnesota, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, Wisconsin, Wyoming

10 p.m. - Idaho, Iowa, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, Utah

11 p.m. - Alaska, California, Hawaii, Washington

_Note: In the event of multiple poll closing times per state, states above are listed by their first closing time. For complete details please scroll to the alphabetized list below. _*Link*

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## terry5



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## JanjaWeed

Gonna look good for Trump supporters in the beginning...But once west coast starts opening their account, it's gonna be gloom n doom!

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## Desert Fox



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## terry5

He's a ****ing racist, mysoginitic, bigoted and childish peice of scum. Regardless of the Hilary situation he has no right being anywhere near an election. 

The sooner he loses and the can of worms spills out, the better.

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## JanjaWeed

So Hilary wins...& impeachment proceedings in her first year if republicans retain both house & senate!

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## Desert Fox



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## Śakra

Trump also known as Sher-e-Amreeka


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## Meengla

@Desert Fox come on, man. You have only a few hours left to come up with some more swamp pictures. Your later inputs are a bit lame. Oh, where is @T-72 -- possibly sleeping in India. He'll find out tomorrow.

PS. My uber-Democrat neighbor coming over in one hour to watch the results. Over some spicy Pakistani foods, beers, and wine. We'll both enjoy the show except he probably won't like me voting Jill. We'll manage it.

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## Śakra

Meengla said:


> We'll both enjoy the show except he probably won't like me voting Jill.



?????????????????????????????????????????????? If you wanted MAGA you should have voted for Trump.


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## RabzonKhan

*



*



*Record-breaking early voting fuels Democratic optimism*

More than 46 million votes have been cast before Election Day.

More than 46 million votes have been cast in advance of Election Day, breaking records in state after state and suggesting the prospect of a heightened Hispanic turnout that could upend politics in several battleground states.

While there’s no way to know whether Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump is ahead, the available data about who has voted so far, and where, provides some insight into what the results might hold. There are signs of an unusually diverse electorate, marked by robust Hispanic numbers in places like Florida and Nevada. Women seem to have turned out in disproportionately high numbers in some states. In others, Republicans appear to have made late gains.

Here are five storylines that have emerged from the early voting period:

*A Latino turnout surge*

Democrats had been muddling through the early voting periods in Nevada and Florida. Then in the final days, black and Latino voters flooded polling places, fueling Democratic optimism in both states.

“Just since last week, the percentage of the electorate that's white has gone from 71 then over the last few days from 68.6 to 68.0, to 67.4, to 68.8,” Florida Democratic strategist Steve Schale wrote in an early vote analysis on Monday. “Since Thursday, there has been no day when the electorate has been more than 61% white. This is the Clinton recipe for winning.”

Through last Wednesday, according to University of Florida early vote expert Daniel Smith, more than 429,000 Hispanic voters had cast ballots at in-person voting locations. That's a 158 percent increase from the same period four years earlier.

And Nevada – once considered one of the most Trump-friendly of the battleground states – may be out of reach for Republicans on Election Day. Surging Latino turnout in populous Clark County – where some polls stayed open hours passed their closing time to let voters in line finish casting ballots – helped drive up the Democratic vote margin over the weekend, if Trump is doing as poorly among Latinos as some polls suggest. That Clark County scene prompted an angry rebuke from state GOP chairman Michael McDonald at a Trump rally Saturday. McDonald, opening for Trump, said the polls were kept open late “so a certain group could vote.”

The African American vote in North Carolina is a different story. There, analysts say that black voters have been disproportionately affected by restrictions on early voting and a tightened early vote schedule. Still, black voters managed to narrow the disparity with 2012 turnout in the final days of the race, comprising increasingly bigger shares of the total ballots each day.

*An uptick in unaffiliateds*

It’s a nearly universal trend.

Unaffiliated voters made up a greater and greater share of the early electorate across the country — in particular in North Carolina and Florida, in an election where the nominees of both major parties face sky-high unfavorable ratings. In North Carolina, through Thursday, a quarter of the votes cast were from unaffiliated voters, up more than 40 percent over 2012 totals at the same time, according to data posted Sunday by Michael Bitzer, an expert on the early vote at Catawba College.

In Florida, according to Schale’s number-crunching, voters without party affiliation made up about 22 percent of the vote through Monday morning. That’s about 1.4 million votes.

While that development makes it harder to divine which candidate is leading, Michael McDonald, an early vote expert who runs the U.S. Elections Project, said there are signs that Clinton stands to gain at least some from unaffiliated voters. Many of them, he noted, are younger and members of minority communities — constituencies that lean left.

“In Florida, part of this has to do with age,” McDonald said. “Younger people tend not to affiliate with a party. In Florida, Latinos tend not to affiliate with a political party.” *Read more*

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## Meengla

JanjaWeed said:


> So Hilary wins...& impeachment proceedings in her first year if republicans retain both house & senate!



Yes, the Republicans won't take it sitting down. But, for impeachment, shouldn't there be 2/3rd in the Senate? Or an overall 2/3rd in the both houses? Either way, it is going to be logjams and ugly.
It doesn't look good for America at all. *This should have been something like Romney vs Biden!!*



Śakra said:


> ?????????????????????????????????????????????? If you wanted MAGA you should have voted for Trump.



What on Earth is 'MAGA'??????????????????????????????????????????

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## Śakra

Meengla said:


> What on Earth is 'MAGA'??????????????????????????????????????????



*MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN 

The slogan of Sher-e-Amreeka Shri Shri Donald "The Caterpillar" Kalki Trump.*

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## Meengla

RabzonKhan said:


> *
> View attachment 350431
> *



OMG! How do you guys come up with such images?! I am literally LOL!

You will probably end up making one of the most 'Viewed' topics for a time frame of 1.5 years?!


PS. I will have to leave the forum--can't be a rude host in about an hour. Carry on.



Śakra said:


> *MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
> 
> The slogan of Sher-e-Amreeka Shri Shri Donald "The Caterpillar" Kalki Trump.*



And what is 'Caterpillar' and 'Kalki'?

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## Śakra

Meengla said:


> And what is 'Caterpillar' and 'Kalki'?



This caterpillar looks like Trump





Some Hindus are calling Trump Kalki. Kalki is an god who comes during the End Times kind of like Mahdi in Islam

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## JanjaWeed

wow.. I'm bit taken aback by FL trend. With 2% counted Trump leading 58 to 30%? Thought this was going to be a tight one & Hillary would nic it!



Meengla said:


> Yes, the Republicans won't take it sitting down. But, for impeachment, shouldn't there be 2/3rd in the Senate? Or an overall 2/3rd in the both houses? Either way, it is going to be logjams and ugly.
> It doesn't look good for America at all. *This should have been something like Romney vs Biden!!*



Two of the most unpopular candidates ever to contest. Whatever it is..it's not going to be smooth sailing for Hillary! You need senate nod for most of the appointments to higher offices including US SC! If republicans manage to hold on to both the houses, they will make Hillary's life hell...& do all they can to garner enough support to impeach her! There are more grounds to impeach her than there ever was for Bill Clinton!

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## Śakra

JanjaWeed said:


> wow.. I'm bit taken aback by FL trend. With 2% counted Trump leading 58 to 30%? Thought this was going to be a tight one & Hillary would nic it!



Spoke too soon the Caterpillar is losing to Hilary


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## heisenberg

trump leading in 19 to 3

atlantic coast is the key


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## JanjaWeed

Śakra said:


> Spoke too soon the Caterpillar is losing to Hilary


Haha..it's neck & neck now! Could be an early night if Clinton manages to take that one!


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## Meengla

JanjaWeed said:


> Haha..it's neck & neck now! Could be an early night if Clinton manages to take that one!



Florida? Why would any Latino vote for Trump? He was unpopular to Black folks to begin with, then alienated whatever little Muslim votes there were, and then pi$$ed off the Latinos. Unless Latinos and Blacks stay home, I don't see a Republican President for years.
Trump's downfall will be his own *big mouth*! He had a real chance. Had it been Biden, instead of Hillary, Trump would be humiliated big time.
But then... the night depends on how many Latinos and Blacks come out. Trump surely has a passionate following--motivated, like Blacks were for Obama in 2008.

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## RabzonKhan

One person was killed and at least three others were wounded Tuesday in an active shooting near a polling place in Azusa.

Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Capt. Jeff Scroggin said police were dealing with at least one suspect who was heavily armed.

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## Desert Fox



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## Śakra

Meengla said:


> Trump's downfall will be his own *big mouth*! He had a real chance.



It was his too lose and it looks like he lost it. CNN projection of Florida is coming soon. He most likely lost it.


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## JanjaWeed

Meengla said:


> Florida? Why would any Latino vote for Trump? He was unpopular to Black folks to begin with, then alienated whatever little Muslim votes there were, and then pi$$ed off the Latinos. Unless Latinos and Blacks stay home, I don't see a Republican President for years.
> Trump's downfall will be his own *big mouth*! He had a real chance. Had it been Biden, instead of Hillary, Trump would be humiliated big time.
> But then... the night depends on how many Latinos and Blacks come out. Trump surely has a passionate following--motivated, like Blacks were for Obama in 2008.


& he is not doing bad in some of the swing states either! Florida trend.. Speechless! especially those south & south east part which is full of Latinos & blacks! I think Hillary would be saying rigged instead...


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## Śakra

JanjaWeed said:


> & he is not doing bad in some of the swing states either! Florida trend.. Speechless! especially those south & south east part which is full of Latinos & blacks! I think Hillary would be saying rigged instead...



Wait he's winning Florida now. He's losing Florida now. Can the Caterpillar win? Will this be Brexit 2.0

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## Meengla

JanjaWeed said:


> & he is not doing bad in some of the swing states either! Florida trend.. Speechless! especially those south & south east part which is full of Latinos & blacks!* I think Hillary would be saying rigged instead.*..



As they said in "Exorcist": "Possible but not likely". But who knows.

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## XenoEnsi-14

Just looked at Bing map, Hillary has 1 possibly 2 states so far, meanwhile Trump is shooting for Mars, probably landing on the moon tonight.

The Sheep did it.


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## RabzonKhan

Florida



CLINTON
3,329,176 50

TRUMP
3,135,638 47 

(72% Expected Vote Reporting)


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## JanjaWeed

Damn...Ohio looking too good for Clinton! Florida + Ohio...job done?


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## XenoEnsi-14

RIP Florida. You didn't turn Libertarian yellow.


----------



## Śakra

Hillz won Mass, Maryland, Illinois, Rhode Island, Delaware, DC

Caterpillar won Tennessee, Mississippi, Oklahoma


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## JanjaWeed

It's all coming thick & fast now...68 to 48 for Clinton...


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## RabzonKhan

North Carolina and Florida are the key battleground states if the madman loses both of these states,than the game is over.

North Carolina

CLINTON
904,046 52

TRUMP
808,805 46 


(37% Expected Vote Reporting)


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## Śakra

RabzonKhan said:


> Florida
> 
> 
> 
> CLINTON
> 3,329,176 50
> 
> TRUMP
> 3,135,638 47
> 
> (72% Expected Vote Reporting)



It's tied now 48.8 vs 48.2 in favour of Hillz


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## JanjaWeed

Śakra said:


> It's tied now 48.8 vs 48.2 in favour of Hillz


Haha..this may end up like Bush vs Gore contest back in 2000,


----------



## Emmie

Trends in swing states musn't be satisfactory for Trump!

Florida -- 49.2 to 47.8 for Clinton -- 53% reporting


----------



## Śakra

DONALD'S TAKEN LEAD OF FLORIDA!!!! 918 votes ahead only. God bless those later reporting ridings.

Hillz has taken the lead now


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## JanjaWeed

Ouch...could feel pain in Rudy Guilliani's voice! Just can't wait for Sean Hannity to come on Fox News!


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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> North Carolina and Florida are the key battleground states if the madman loses both of these states,than the game is over.
> 
> North Carolina
> 
> CLINTON
> 904,046 52
> 
> TRUMP
> 808,805 46
> 
> 
> (37% Expected Vote Reporting)



Well, is still too early, but I'm loving it! 





68
Hillary Clinton


270 of 538 electoral votes needed to win




37
Donald Trump


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## heisenberg

wtf happening in florida

it's 49-49% for both candidates


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## Meengla

bye bye.. the neighbor is here!


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## JanjaWeed

WTF...48.5% each with 88% results in? This is going to be 2000 all over again!

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## Śakra

Meengla said:


> bye bye.. the neighbor is here!



Is he cute?


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## JanjaWeed

OK..looks like FL is going Trump's way with 91% in!

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## Crixus

Trump is doing better then expected


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## Emmie

JanjaWeed said:


> WTF...48.5% each with 88% results in? This is going to be 2000 all over again!



That's the percentage of reporting, not total votes.


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## Śakra

Crixus said:


> Trump is doing better then expected



Caterpillars become butterflies.

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## The SC

Trump 66%.. Hillary 48%, but this is just in 11 states!


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## Crixus

He may attack Canada tomorrow   


Śakra said:


> Caterpillars become butterflies.


----------



## Śakra

Crixus said:


> He may attack Canada tomorrow



They say even Napoleon knew never to attack Canada for winter is coming.


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## Crixus

He will come from South , Napolean could have tried from North ...   , If you are in Toronto better avoid going work tomorrow  may be he will bomb go train and TTC


Śakra said:


> They say even Napoleon knew never to attack Canada for winter is coming.


----------



## C130

If Trump flips Michigan it's over

If Hillary wins Ohio it's over

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## Crixus

is it a swing state ??


C130 said:


> If Trump flips Michigan it's over
> 
> If Hillary wins Ohio it's over


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## C130

Crixus said:


> is it a swing state ??


Michigan isnt, but Ohio is.

I am from Ohio btw

no candidate has won without winning Ohio.

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## Crixus

Trump can win ..... what ever is saying must have appealed lower middle class and poor 


C130 said:


> Michigan isnt, but Ohio is.
> 
> I am from Ohio btw
> 
> no candidate has won without winning Ohio.


----------



## C130

Crixus said:


> Trump can win ..... what ever is saying must have appealed lower middle class and poor



I think it'll come down to Nevada if it's close


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## Crixus

lets see how things will turn up  ...this time American elections are as interesting as Indian elections


C130 said:


> I think it'll come down to Nevada if it's close


----------



## Śakra

Crixus said:


> He will come from South , Napolean could have tried from North ...   , If you are in Toronto better avoid going work tomorrow  may be he will bomb go train and TTC



*TRY US.* If our pants (America) tries any funny business we will have to take them over. Ask @C130 about War of 1812, they still have nightmares about it.

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## C130

Śakra said:


> *TRY US.* If our pants (America) tries any funny business we will have to take them over. Ask @C130 about War of 1812, they still have nightmares about it.


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## XenoEnsi-14

Śakra said:


> *TRY US.* If our pants (America) tries any funny business we will have to take them over. Ask @C130 about War of 1812, they still have nightmares about it.

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## Crixus

Oh man I forget Canada has super man as PM he can handle US 






Śakra said:


> *TRY US.* If our pants (America) tries any funny business we will have to take them over. Ask @C130 about War of 1812, they still have nightmares about it.


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## Meengla

Śakra said:


> Is he cute?



Women like him. Arent you a MAN?!

He's here and, as expected, a bit upset with me for voting Jill. But he's liking the spicy Aaloo, Mattar, Ghobi (Potato, Peas, and Cauliflower)

The race is pretty damn close. I told my friend: This is the last hurrah of the white nationalists. He agreed.


----------



## Mansoon

Donald Trump is winning. Hahaha

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## SQ8

Trump is going to take it Reagan style. Joe the Truck Driver sick of watching immigrants taking jobs he never qualifies for is going to vote him into office.

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## Śakra

Meengla said:


> Women like him. Arent you a MAN?!



No



> The race is pretty damn close. I told my friend: This is the last hurrah of the white nationalists. He agreed.



If you saw my post from yesterday I showed that Donald is being supported by desis of all religions.



Crixus said:


> Oh man I forget Canada has super man as PM he can handle US


----------



## Nilgiri

@RabzonKhan 

Enjoy! I sure am. 

Michigan Ohio....forget about Florida and Virginia!

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## Serpentine

For first time ever, NYT puts Trump's chances of winning elections at 51%. Wow.





And now it's 55%.

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## Meengla

Śakra said:


> No
> If you saw my post from yesterday I showed that Donald is being supported by desis of all religions.



So you are a chick?! Okay, then he's into women.

And, no, just because many Hindus support him and a few 'Desis', on the whole Trump is extremely unpopular outside of white nationalists.
And that popularity in the white nationalists--the majority group in America--is, as I said above, the last hurrah of a changing demographics of America.

Trump HAS a chance.


----------



## iPhone

So, the election is up for grabs. People thought she was gonna run away with it and that's it'll be a clean sweep or its in the bag, have their heads in their hands. This is literally 50/50 right now.

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## Śakra

Meengla said:


> So you are a chick?! Okay, then he's into women.



Aren't you didi?



> And, no, just because many Hindus support him and a few 'Desis', on the whole Trump is extremely unpopular outside of white nationalists.
> And that popularity in the white nationalists--the majority group in America--is, as I said above, the last hurrah of a changing demographics of America.
> 
> Trump HAS a chance.



Didi, Trump won because he is a sanskaari guy who appeals to sanskaari people.


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## Mansoon

Serpentine said:


> For first time ever, NYT puts Trump's chances of winning elections at 51%. Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now it's 55%.


NY Times is destroyed.


----------



## Nilgiri

BLUE FIREWALL BREACHED BIG LEAGUE.

MAGA INCOMING.

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## Mansoon

If Trump wins, all main stream media is destroyed for ever.

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## Solomon2

Nilgiri said:


> Michigan Ohio....forget about Florida and Virginia!


The big cities - Democratic strongholds - are the last to report results, so a state can flip even after the 90% counted mark.



Mansoon said:


> If Trump wins, all main stream media is destroyed for ever.


Why?

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## Mansoon

Solomon2 said:


> Why?


Why? Obviously they campaigned against Trump and are exposed completely.


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## Nilgiri

Solomon2 said:


> The big cities - Democratic strongholds - are the last to report results, so a state can flip even after the 90% counted mark.



Running out of options though in Florida. Remember how big the polls were saying Hildabeest was going to win.


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## Meengla

Śakra said:


> Aren't you didi?
> 
> 
> 
> Didi, Trump won because he is a sanskaari guy who appeals to sanskaari people.




If 'Didi' meant 'old sister', then, no, I am an old BROTHER! 
Anyway, only Hindu nationalist 'sanskaari'--whatever that is, support Trump. Outside of a certain ethnic (majority) American group.

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## Nilgiri

Mansoon said:


> If Trump wins, all main stream media is destroyed for ever.



Which is the first very welcome step. Pollsters put out of business. Momentum from Brexit continued. Hope for working class restored.

Next step: Trey Gowdy as Attorney General and Hillary prosecuted.

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## Mansoon

Vote Trump. Make America Great Again.



Nilgiri said:


> Which is the first very welcome step. Pollsters put out of business. Momentum from Brexit continued. Hope for working class restored.
> 
> Next step: Trey Gowdy as Attorney General and Hillary prosecuted.


Of course. I am tired of globalist elite.

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## Nilgiri

Mansoon said:


> Vote Trump. Make America Great Again.
> 
> 
> Of course. I am tired of globalist elite.



The night is early...and much more to go. Fingers crossed! I dont want to jinx it


----------



## C130

Oscar said:


> Trump is going to take it Reagan style. Joe the Truck Driver sick of watching immigrants taking jobs he never qualifies for is going to vote him into office.



we have no problem with immigrants, but illegal immigrants yes. without H1B Visa the U.S would be hurting bad.

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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> One person was killed and at least three others were wounded Tuesday in an active shooting near a polling place in Azusa.
> 
> Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Capt. Jeff Scroggin said police were dealing with at least one suspect who was heavily armed.




It happened not too far from where I live. 

However, I'm even more scared by the election results coming in right now.

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## SQ8

C130 said:


> we have no problem with immigrants, but illegal immigrants yes. without H1B Visa the U.S would be hurting bad.



WRONG!

The issue is with non-whites and the perception of losing power. This isn't a US centric problem, the UK just demonstrated it, other states with large racial/religious majority/minorities demonstrate it.

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## Śakra

Meengla said:


> If 'Didi' meant 'old sister', then, no, I am an old BROTHER!



WTH you have very feminine hands so I thought you were a girl...



> Anyway, only Hindu nationalist 'sanskaari'--whatever that is, support Trump. Outside of a certain ethnic (majority) American group.



I showed you Hindus, Sikhs, and Muslim desis supporting Trump.


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## F-22Raptor

I think Trump will win. The polls look massively flawed right now.

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## The SC

T: 140
H: 104


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## Meengla

Oscar said:


> WRONG!
> 
> The issue is with non-whites and the perception of losing power. This isn't a US centric problem, the UK just demonstrated it, other states with large racial/religious majority/minorities demonstrate it.




Oh yes sir! I have to yell now: MAKE NO MISTAKE: This is about RACE! If Mexicans were white looking then no problems. 
I can understand it. Even empathize with some of it. But the world is changing...


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## C130

Oscar said:


> WRONG!
> 
> The issue is with non-whites and the perception of losing power. This isn't a US centric problem, the UK just demonstrated it, other states with large racial/religious majority/minorities demonstrate it.



if you wanna get technical Latinos are considered White.

but let's be honest this country was founded by white men who killed POC,enslaved a few million Africans, and took advantage of the Chinese. White Europeans becoming a minority is very scary, and when you got millions of Latinos flooding into this country illegally that is just messed up. the U.S will become either a 2nd world or 3rd world country like Sweden is predicted to be by 2030. 

and whites don't run this country, but a few dozens Ashkenazim Jews do. we are all being taken advantage of.

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## LA se Karachi

Oscar said:


> WRONG!
> 
> The issue is with non-whites and the perception of losing power. This isn't a US centric problem, the UK just demonstrated it, other states with large racial/religious majority/minorities demonstrate it.




Economics and the working class had a lot to do with it too. _Obama _did much better in 2012 than Hillary is doing in many rural areas across the country tonight. 

Many rural and working class Americans are fed up with the establishment and the lack of attention given to their problems. Working and middle class Americans have moved backwards these past 40 years while the rich have gotten astronomically richer. With or without the immigration rhetoric, Trump would have gotten a lot of support.

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## Nilgiri

F-22Raptor said:


> I think Trump will win. The polls look massively flawed right now.



Trump going to win Florida. Stay tuned.



LA se Karachi said:


> Many rural and working class Americans are fed up with the establishment and the lack of attention given to their problems. Working and middle class Americans have moved backwards these past 40 years while the rich have gotten astronomically richer. With or without the immigration rhetoric, Trump would have gotten a lot of support.



This.

Serves the DNC right for rigging against Sanders to support the corrupt queenie.

I foresee the democrat party breaking apart quite soon actually if Trump takes this to the finish line.

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## LA se Karachi

Nilgiri said:


> Trump going to win Florida. Stay tuned.
> 
> 
> 
> This.
> 
> Serves the DNC right for rigging against Sanders to support the corrupt queenie.
> 
> I foresee the democrat party breaking apart quite soon actually if Trump takes this to the finish line.




Trump will indeed win Florida. And yes, the Democratic Party will undergo a huge change if Hillary loses tonight (and maybe even if she doesn't). 

Sanders would have won easily. Nothing we can do now...

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## SQ8

Meengla said:


> Oh yes sir! I have to yell now: MAKE NO MISTAKE: This is about RACE! If Mexicans were white looking then no problems.
> I can understand it. Even empathize with some of it. But the world is changing...


The world may be changing but that is due to education and exposure. All those voting for Trump are those with lower education and/or low exposure. Why do we see racism and bigotry more out of low education and low exposure areas? (aristocratic and elite bigotry too is a product of exposure). 

Because these people do not have the knowledge or the capacity to build that knowledge due to early educational/ societal difficulties that they end up voting on fears rather than information. Why is it that the poor and the lower middle class are the ones in upheaval?

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## Mansoon

This election is a lesson for all Pakistanis as well. If elections are not rigged, a populist always win unlike Pakistan where populist Imran Khan lost because of rigging.

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## Śakra

C130 said:


> we have no problem with immigrants, but illegal immigrants yes. without H1B Visa the U.S would be hurting bad.



Associating Republicans with Xenophobes is a typical Democrat tactic. No one hates immigrants more than Democrats.


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## Mansoon

Oscar said:


> All those voting for Trump are those with lower education and/or low exposure.


What?


----------



## xyxmt

F-22Raptor said:


> I think Trump will win. The polls look massively flawed right now.



because people tend to keep racists thoughts to themself and 99% people are racists everywhere

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## Mansoon

Oscar said:


> Why is it that the poor and the lower middle class are the ones in upheaval?


Its actually educated Middle Class that is voting for Trump.



xyxmt said:


> because people tend to keep racists thoughts to themself and 99% people are racists everywhere


What has this to do with Racism?


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## saiyan0321

According to Google it seems currently trump has 140 and Clinton has 104 with 270 to win. Trump is in the lead.


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## F-22Raptor

Looks like this race will come down to Wisconsin and Michigan.

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## saiyan0321

At the house the republicans are at 155 while the democrats are at 109 with 218 to win majority


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## Musafir117

saiyan0321 said:


> According to Google it seems currently trump has 140 and Clinton has 104 with 270 to win. Trump is in the lead.


Confused I heard last night Clinton leading with 210 and Trumph 165


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## Mansoon

saiyan0321 said:


> According to Google it seems currently trump has 140 and Clinton has 104 with 270 to win. Trump is in the lead.


Google is only quoting Reuters.


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## SQ8

C130 said:


> if you wanna get technical Latinos are considered White.
> 
> but let's be honest this country was founded by white men who killed POC,enslaved a few million Africans, and took advantage of the Chinese. White Europeans becoming a minority is very scary, and when you got millions of Latinos flooding into this country illegally that is just messed up. the U.S will become either a 2nd world or 3rd world country like Sweden is predicted to be by 2030.
> 
> and whites don't run this country, but a few dozens Ashkenazim Jews do. we are all being taken advantage of.



Regardless of history, insecurity has a large percentage in vote. something I told an angry gay dude at a starbucks ranting on about "white trash" and so on. The more you understand why the white trash is where he/she is, the more you feel less "hatred" and more empathic to their situation.

The Latinos will continue to flood in regardless of any "walls", the first person to suggest a wall I believe was some senator back in the 1980's, Arnie used it for his run as well.. so Trump is just another late comer to the wall it off concept.
The latinos voting for Trump are the long term settlers, or those that see their jobs being taken by the new influx.. again; insecurity.

The issue is no longer walls or controlling immigration, it has to do with taking in the disenfranchised.
Washington IS run by corporate concerns, and as much as Trump is the molotov to this system; he is sadly still good friends will all of them.
What I fear from Trump is not bans on Muslims or more racism, it is that he is at the end still a misogynistic businessman who will manipulate policies for self profit and leave all of us high and dry. The rust belt, Joe the mechanic or the GW1 vet who left after one tour and rants on Islam; he is not going to feel the actual crunch of it. The actual crunch of a failed economy hits small businesses, hits the middle class and hits jobs. Hillary was business as usual, and Sanders was too hip, but this is a case of a swindler making the top.

However, this is not unusual. Such results have happened in many other democratic states and the result has been economic ruin followed by a quick voting out of the swindler.. and another rebuild.



Mansoon said:


> Its actually educated Middle Class that is voting for Trump.
> 
> 
> What has this to do with Racism?


Lower middle class can be educated too. The issue is with exposure and insecurity more than anything else.

Education and exposure, both go hand in hand. One can be educated in nuclear physics but have the exposure to just one narrative; leading to a nuclear physicist but nothing more.

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## Mansoon

Musafir117 said:


> Confused I heard last night Clinton leading with 210 and Trumph 165


Where?


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## saiyan0321

Musafir117 said:


> Confused I heard last night Clinton leading with 210 and Trumph 165



Don't know. 

Google has to be the most updated. Don't think they will mess up.

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## Mansoon

Oscar said:


> Lower middle class can be educated too. The issue is with exposure and insecurity more than anything else.
> 
> Education and exposure, both go hand in hand. One can be educated in nuclear physics but have the exposure to just one narrative; leading to a nuclear physicist but nothing more.



Anyhow, education has not much to say in developed nation. Here in Norway we have 100 percent educated people with most having college degrees, and yet they vote foolishly in almost every election.



saiyan0321 said:


> Don't know.
> 
> Google has to be the most updated. Don't think they will mess up.
> 
> View attachment 350456


They are just quoting from Reuters.


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## LA se Karachi

It is an absolute blow-out in rural America for Trump. I expected him to over-perform in those areas for the reason I mentioned, but Hillary is under-performing Obama by_ a lot_.

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## saiyan0321

Mansoon said:


> Anyhow, education has not much to say in developed nation. Here in Norway we have 100 percent educated people with most having college degrees, and yet they vote foolishly in almost every election.
> 
> *
> They are just quoting from Reuters.*



As long as its latest and up to date.

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## Śakra

Donald took Ohio

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## Mansoon

LA se Karachi said:


> It is an absolute blow-out in rural America for Trump. I expected him to over-perform in those areas for the reason I mentioned, but Hillary is under-performing Obama by_ a lot_.


It was expected. This is called American White Middle Class Revolution.

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## saiyan0321

Senate.. 

Republicans need only 6 as they have 45 whilst democrats are at 42

Us house 

Republicans need 57 as they stand at 161 while the democrats need 104 more as they stand at 114

And with trump vs Hilary

We have 150 trump requiring 120 and we have Hilary at 109 requiring 161 to reach the majority of 270

Things not looking good for Hilary.

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## Emmie

It's over for Clinton! Ohio gone, Florida soon will be gone.

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## Śakra

This is really Hillz fault. She completely *ignored* the rural White vote. Why ignore the largest demographic in your country??

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## Water Car Engineer

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37450661


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## Solomon2

LA se Karachi said:


> It is an absolute blow-out in rural America for Trump. I expected him to over-perform in those areas for the reason I mentioned, but Hillary is under-performing Obama by_ a lot_.


True, but it's still not going to be enough to beat Clinton. I now figure she wins by six electoral votes.



Śakra said:


> This is really Hillz fault. She completely *ignored* the rural White vote. Why ignore the largest demographic in your country??


Because they are "Deplorables".

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## LA se Karachi

Mansoon said:


> It was expected. This is called American White Middle Class Revolution.




I expected it too. But I'm still taken aback by how much it came true today.

I was a strong Sanders supporter. I told all my Clinton-supporting friends just how terrible a candidate she would be if she was nominated and how much rural and working class/middle class Americans would oppose her, which coupled with low turnout among left-leaning voters would make things precarious. But even I didn't expect this...

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## Solomon2

Emmie said:


> It's over for Clinton! Ohio gone, Florida soon will be gone.


Try to remember that the big cities are usually Democratic strongholds and the last to report.

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## Mansoon

LA se Karachi said:


> I expected it too. But I'm still taken aback by how much it came true today.
> 
> I was a strong Sanders supporter. I told all my Clinton-supporting friends just how terrible a candidate she would be if she was nominated and how much rural and working class/middle class Americans would oppose her, which coupled with low turnout among left-leaning voters would make things precarious. But even I didn't expect this...


Well it was expected for me. So no shocker here.



Solomon2 said:


> Try to remember that the big cities are usually Democratic strongholds and the last to report.


Why you support Killary?


----------



## C130

Oscar said:


> Regardless of history, insecurity has a large percentage in vote. something I told an angry gay dude at a starbucks ranting on about "white trash" and so on. The more you understand why the white trash is where he/she is, the more you feel less "hatred" and more empathic to their situation.
> 
> The Latinos will continue to flood in regardless of any "walls", the first person to suggest a wall I believe was some senator back in the 1980's, Arnie used it for his run as well.. so Trump is just another late comer to the wall it off concept.
> The latinos voting for Trump are the long term settlers, or those that see their jobs being taken by the new influx.. again; insecurity.
> 
> The issue is no longer walls or controlling immigration, it has to do with taking in the disenfranchised.
> Washington IS run by corporate concerns, and as much as Trump is the molotov to this system; he is sadly still good friends will all of them.
> What I fear from Trump is not bans on Muslims or more racism, it is that he is at the end still a misogynistic businessman who will manipulate policies for self profit and leave all of us high and dry. The rust belt, Joe the mechanic or the GW1 vet who left after one tour and rants on Islam; he is not going to feel the actual crunch of it. The actual crunch of a failed economy hits small businesses, hits the middle class and hits jobs. Hillary was business as usual, and Sanders was too hip, but this is a case of a swindler making the top.
> 
> However, this is not unusual. Such results have happened in many other democratic states and the result has been economic ruin followed by a quick voting out of the swindler.. and another rebuild.
> 
> 
> Lower middle class can be educated too. The issue is with exposure and insecurity more than anything else.
> 
> Education and exposure, both go hand in hand. One can be educated in nuclear physics but have the exposure to just one narrative; leading to a nuclear physicist but nothing more.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3205724/How-65-countries-erected-security-walls-borders.html
you can't say a wall won't work til it's been built. funny how all these other countries are building walls and it is working (Israel,Saudi Arabia, Turkey, etc) pretty sure even Pakistan is building a wall or a ditch along the Afghan border.





it won't be full proofed but if it can cut down the number of illegals getting in by 50%to 80% that is a win

it's not only illegals crossing into the country but drugs (cocaine,heroine, and marijuana)

I don't have a problem with immigration. I would personal would welcome 50,000 refugees coming into country from Libya,Iraq,Afghanistan, and Syria (if they are thoroughly vetted) we owe these people since our leadership bombed their countries and let terrorists cause chaos.

but I also like how you like to bring up low educated/poor whites that vote republican, but it's funny how low educated/poor blacks always vote for Democrats. the same Democrats who have abandoned cities like Detroit,Chicago, Baltimore, Washington D.C.

the democrats and republicans are both jokes, but I feel Trump is the lesser of two evils.

if it was Ted Cruz vs Hillary I would vote Hillary.

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## LA se Karachi

Emmie said:


> It's over for Clinton! Ohio gone, Florida soon will be gone.




Not quite. She didn't need them. Trump did. But it could indeed be over soon if a few more states are called for him. 



Solomon2 said:


> True, but it's still not going to be enough to beat Clinton. I now figure she wins by six electoral votes.




I'm not so sure, my friend. If Trump wins Michigan or Wisconsin, it's over.

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## Mansoon

C130 said:


> the democrats and republicans are both jokes, but I feel Trump is the lesser of two evils.


Well said!


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## Solomon2

Mansoon said:


> Why you support Killary?


Why do you count me as a Clinton supporter, simply because I forecast her narrow victory?


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## LA se Karachi

*Hillary wins Virginia! *

She had to win it in order to win the election.

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## xyxmt

Mansoon said:


> What has this to do with Racism?



we were talking about flawed polls so figure out what it has to do with racism


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## saiyan0321

Trump at 168 needing 102 and Hillary at 122 needing 148


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## Meengla

LA se Karachi said:


> I expected it too. But I'm still taken aback by how much it came true today.
> 
> I was a strong Sanders supporter. I told all my Clinton-supporting friends just how terrible a candidate she would be if she was nominated and how much rural and working class/middle class Americans would oppose her, which coupled with low turnout among left-leaning voters would make things precarious. But even I didn't expect this...




Yes, sir.
This elections boiled down to mobilization: Trump's supporters--and my white American wife and several friends are Trump supporters--are far more mobilized, motivated. Like Obama's were in 2008. While the leftists/Blacks/Latinos were not quite that mobilized.
This is the last hurrah of a diminishing demographic group.

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## saiyan0321

Democrats 122 needing 96 and republicans 169 needing 49, 

This is going to be beyond close.


----------



## Śakra

Mansoon said:


> Well said!



Glad to see another desi supporting The Caterpillar


----------



## Desert Fox

People underestimated the Silent Majority, people kept poking at the sleeping giant, well now they must face it's wrath.

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## Mansoon

Śakra said:


> Glad to see another desi supporting The Caterpillar


I support principles not ideologies.

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## Musafir117

Mansoon said:


> Where?


Live with Dr Shahid Masood as usual may be just trolling.

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## saiyan0321

Desert Fox said:


> People underestimated the Silent Majority, people kept poking at the sleeping giant, well now they must face it's wrath.



Only fools underestimate the silent majority. The silent majority is the real power and it was the same case in the 2013 elections of pakistan. Everybody was imran khan Imran khan with hundreds of thousands showing at his jalsas sometimes reaching above millions but the silent majority voted for N. 

You can't underestimate them.

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## JanjaWeed

wtf...This is going BREXIT way! A big middle finger by the LA Times to every other pollster & media organizations in US!

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## Mansoon

saiyan0321 said:


> but the silent majority voted for N.


No, the elections were heavily rigged.


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## Śakra

Meengla said:


> leftists/*Blacks/Latinos* were not quite that mobilized.



I hate to sound racist but the bold are an ignorable as they have shown time and time again that they are not motivated to vote, even though voting is in their best interest. Contrast this with Indians in Canada. We are a dedicated voting block even though we are 2% of the population. All parties have to pander to us. In fact the Liberals gave us something like 12% of minister positions. I can't impress upon them enough the importance of voting.


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## saiyan0321

Yes gentlemen I am getting lazy. Taking a pic is far easier. :p :p :p

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## Mansoon

JanjaWeed said:


> wtf...This is going BREXIT way! A big middle finger by the LA Times to every other pollster & media organizations in US!


Yupp. Big Media is totally exposed. Social media is the real media.


----------



## Śakra

saiyan0321 said:


> Only fools underestimate the silent majority. The silent majority is the real power and it was the same case in the 2013 elections of pakistan. Everybody was imran khan Imran khan with hundreds of thousands showing at his jalsas sometimes reaching above millions but the silent majority voted for N.
> 
> You can't underestimate them.



@Desert Fox 

It's ignoring the Silent Majority and wasting resources on minorities that don't vote.

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## Emmie

Clinton overlooked rural white Americans & Obama failed to motivate blacks.


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## Mansoon

Śakra said:


> It's ignoring the Silent Majority and wasting resources on minorities that don't vote.


Killary had nothing to offer white majority Middle Class which it used years to destroy with globalization.



Emmie said:


> Clinton overlooked rural white Americans & Obama failed to motivate blacks.


What had Clinton to offer White Americans?

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## SQ8

C130 said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3205724/How-65-countries-erected-security-walls-borders.html
> you can't say a wall won't work til it's been built. funny how all these other countries are building walls and it is working (Israel,Saudi Arabia, Turkey, etc) pretty sure even Pakistan is building a wall or a ditch along the Afghan border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it won't be full proofed but if it can cut down the number of illegals getting in by 50%to 80% that is a win
> 
> it's not only illegals crossing into the country but drugs (cocaine,heroine, and marijuana)
> 
> I don't have a problem with immigration. I would personal would welcome 50,000 refugees coming into country from Libya,Iraq,Afghanistan, and Syria (if they are thoroughly vetted) we owe these people since our leadership bombed their countries and let terrorists cause chaos.
> 
> but I also like how you like to bring up low educated/poor whites that vote republican, but it's funny how low educated/poor blacks always vote for Democrats. the same Democrats who have abandoned cities like Detroit,Chicago, Baltimore, Washington D.C.
> 
> the democrats and republicans are both jokes, but I feel Trump is the lesser of two evils.
> 
> if it was Ted Cruz vs Hillary I would vote Hillary.


900km vs 3201km.. Heck I would love something similar between Afghanistan and Pakistan. 

Again, you are only reinforcing what I am trying to say. It is insecurities that fuel the vote, not actual performance or results. The republicans have started to represent the whites , the blacks see the democrats as their rebellion against former "massa". The politicians on top can screw them all and that is what they have been doing, but this is not just adversarial in terms of immigration or trade; it is battleground for races and religion and so on. 

Yes, Ted Cruz is a worse maniac than Trump is.. Hillary was never better than Sanders and so on. But the issue with a Trump win is that it isnt a win for all of us here; regardless of our skin color, our disagreements on races, religion and policy.. this is basically us cheering on derailing a rich preferring corporate controlled system by thinking that someone from that very society will save us.


----------



## LA se Karachi

Meengla said:


> This elections boiled down to mobilization: Trump's supporters--and my white American wife and several friends are Trump supporters--are far more mobilized, motivated. Like Obama's were in 2008. While the leftists/Blacks/Latinos were not quite that mobilized.




Exactly. I said the same thing again and again: turnout matters. Rural and working class white voters did. While urban and left-leaning voters, it seems, did not. 

Not to mention all of those who don't like either candidate deciding to vote for Trump. If Sanders had been the nominee, he would have won many of those voters against Trump. Polls showed him winning by a wide margin; there was a lot more room for error. 

And if Hillary does end up winning this thing, Republicans will kick themselves for not nominating a more electable nominee. It seems that most other candidates would have won against her easily.

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## Mansoon

Oscar said:


> this is basically us cheering on derailing a rich preferring corporate controlled system by thinking that someone from that very society will save us.


Still better than Clintons.


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## saiyan0321

Ohio falls to trump.














Its heating up gents


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## TaiShang

A Trump presidency is good news for China and its only most strategic partner, Russia.

I do not care it is good or bad news for the rest.

China-US relations will be tense, potentially, but, it will be more economized and less securitized.

East Asia international relations may be reconfigured under new conditions.

And, a Trump presidency is potentially a bad news for Islamic Jihadist terrorists in Syria and elsewhere. Hence, potentially bad news for Turkey, Qatar, Saudis.

Finally, we may have to move to Globalization 3.0, under China's leadership. Brexit pushed the UK into China's monetary arms.

USexit might push the US into China's economized regional and global configurations.

Under Hillary, all of the above, but the other way round.

Nonetheless, still too early to set up the fireworks for either camp.

@vostok , @Chinese Bamboo

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## Water Car Engineer

hill hill took the lead.


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## SQ8

Mansoon said:


> Still better than Clintons.


The Clinton's would just keep the same system, keep their corporate donors happy and lay the foundation for Chelsea. Trump is someone who has made his money using questionable tactics and means, and is always wanted recognition. How much of that will influence his time in office is what matters. 

It is not an issue of whether we needed the corporate interests gone, the neo-liberal hegemon that is enslaving the world; but rather was this molotov cocktail on the house the best way to do it? 

In a way though, there was nothing else left one could do. Bernie was the best sane hope against this system, when that went; we go with the insane hope.

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## C130

Oscar said:


> 900km vs 3201km.. Heck I would love something similar between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
> 
> Again, you are only reinforcing what I am trying to say. It is insecurities that fuel the vote, not actual performance or results. The republicans have started to represent the whites , the blacks see the democrats as their rebellion against former "massa". The politicians on top can screw them all and that is what they have been doing, but this is not just adversarial in terms of immigration or trade; it is battleground for races and religion and so on.
> 
> Yes, Ted Cruz is a worse maniac than Trump is.. Hillary was never better than Sanders and so on. But the issue with a Trump win is that it isnt a win for all of us here; regardless of our skin color, our disagreements on races, religion and policy.. this is basically us cheering on derailing a rich preferring corporate controlled system by thinking that someone from that very society will save us.




you make it sound like it's impossible to build a 3201km wall. the great wall of china is many times that, and everyone keeps forgetting that this wall will have doors to let people in and out

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## saiyan0321

The house is going to the repubs but the senate is a fight of epic proportions.

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## Mansoon

C130 said:


> you make it sound like it's impossible to build a 3201km wall. the great wall of china is many times that, and everyone keeps forgetting that this wall will have doors to let people in and out


Israel has a very well working wall. Also other countries use walls to keep the invaders out.


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## SQ8

C130 said:


> you make it sound like it's impossible to build a 3201km wall. the great wall of china is many times that, and everyone keeps forgetting that this wall will have doors to let people in and out


The great wall of China also took 1000 years. 
Not 4 years and project worth billions upon billions of dollars.

Again, a wall is NOT a bad idea; just that it is not feasible.

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## KAL-EL

Mansoon said:


> What had Clinton to offer White Americans?



Absolutely nothing!! All she did 99% of the time was pander and kiss major *ss to everyone else but whites.

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## saiyan0321

Oregan and California to Clinton. 







Hey Solomon maybe on to something.

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## Śakra

Water Car Engineer said:


> hill hill took the lead.



Cali is a guaranteed Blue state so you can ignore that result. Focus on Michigan and Wisconsin. If he wins both he's won.

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## Clutch

President Trump... nice!

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## LA se Karachi

Clinton wins Colorado. Trump wins North Carolina. 

It's all going to come down to two states: *Michigan and Wisconsin*.

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## Mansoon

KAL-EL said:


> Absolutely nothing!! All she did 99% of the time which pander and kiss major *ss to everyone else but whites.


Congratulations. USA is awake now finally.


----------



## WaLeEdK2

Every source I check has a different poll numbers. What gives?


----------



## saiyan0321

Here is the fun part. Clinton is currently leading in four states. 

Trump is leading in 8

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## Śakra

KAL-EL said:


> Absolutely nothing!! All she did 99% of the time which pander and kiss major *ss to everyone else but whites.



Refer to my post #2485



> I hate to sound racist but the bold are an ignorable as they have shown time and time again that they are not motivated to vote, even though voting is in their best interest. Contrast this with Indians in Canada. We are a dedicated voting block even though we are 2% of the population. All parties have to pander to us. In fact the Liberals gave us something like 12% of minister positions. I can't impress upon them enough the importance of voting.



She pandered to groups that don't vote. This is a typical Democrat play that always costs them. Idk why they don't ever learn from their mistakes.

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## saiyan0321




----------



## Śakra

WaLeEdK2 said:


> Every source I check has a different poll numbers. What gives?



Projections are done by the news agencies not by the government so it varies depending on the confidence of that agency with their numbers.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

This is crazy, Hillary really fucked up for letting this be this close. I cant say Im surprised.

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## Mansoon

Good Job President Trump! Make America Great Again!


----------



## LA se Karachi

Wisconsin is not looking good for Hillary....


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Boy, either way, there's going to be a lot of pissed off people tomorrow. 100% facts.

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## Mansoon

WaLeEdK2 said:


> Every source I check has a different poll numbers. What gives?


They are using different sources.



Water Car Engineer said:


> Boy, either way, there's going to be a lot of pissed off people tomorrow. 100% facts.


Why pissed? Its democracy.


----------



## UniverseWatcher

yeah Trump just won i think, looking at the states


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Mansoon said:


> Why pissed? Its democracy.



Yes, beautiful thing, but even leading up to this, you felt how divided the public is. One half will be pissed for the moment for sure.

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## Nair saab

This is Trumpamania ... Leftist on their knees... Fuccck Leftist ...

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## saiyan0321

Trump gains lead at Washington as clinton gains at Nevada

WA and NV

Meanwhile the repubs just need 28 to win the house while democrats need 88.. 

Yeah republicans are taking the house.


----------



## maximuswarrior

Wow, Trump winning some key swing states! Winning the House in the process. This is too tight. Seems like America might after all elect a loser like Trump LOL Red necks coming out on full force to support their man.


----------



## C130

Oscar said:


> The great wall of China also took 1000 years.
> Not 4 years and project worth billions upon billions of dollars.
> 
> Again, a wall is NOT a bad idea; just that it is not feasible.



the great wall of china is 7.5 meters tall and 5 meters wide, and was built by hand. we have machines and technology on our side.

i was just giving an example. our wall won't be as long,tall, or wide as the china wall.

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## Mansoon

maximuswarrior said:


> Wow, Trump winning some key swing states! This is too tight. Seems like America might after all elect a loser like Trump LOL


Why loser? He is a great man.


----------



## UniverseWatcher

Time to move to Canada before i start wearing a card just to show that i am mulsim

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## LA se Karachi

"It think it's fair to say that the Bernie Sanders/Elizabteh Warren wing of the Democratic Party will be emboldened"

"Democrats have ignored working-class white voter for too long"

---CNN


No doubt.

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## Meengla

Water Car Engineer said:


> Boy, either way, there's going to be a lot of pissed off people tomorrow. 100% facts.




Yes.
My neighbor is here "sick to his stomach".

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## Mansoon

LA se Karachi said:


> Democrats have ignored working-class white voter for too long


Its because they represent globalist elite.


----------



## LA se Karachi

saiyan0321 said:


> Trump gains lead at Washington




Yes, but there's no chance that Trump will win Washington. It's a very blue state.


----------



## Nair saab

American media sounds like they are Blaming White americans for Trump Victories... I Love seeing Leftist Media Butttt Hurt ...

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## maximuswarrior

Mansoon said:


> Why loser? He is a great man.



LOL Get him elected. We will see whether he bans all Muslims in his first hours as he promised. No ifs and buts.


----------



## saiyan0321

Republicans need 3 more senate seats for majority while the Democrats need 5. The close contest is starting to go Republicans way. 

Current tly it looks like complete and utter victory for the republicans is on its way with house and senate under their control and their candidate winning. Let's see

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## Mansoon

DjSmg said:


> Time to move to Canada before i start wearing a card just to show that i am mulsim


yeah, move along and take all Hollywood celebrities with you.


----------



## Mahmoud_EGY

good news so far hope it stays that way and trump win


----------



## Mansoon

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL Get him elected. We will see whether he bans all Muslims in his first hours as he promised. No ifs and buts.


I hope he does. A promise is a promise.


----------



## saiyan0321

LA se Karachi said:


> Yes, but there's no chance that Trump will win Washington. It's a very blue state.



So it will be a huge setback for clinton if trump somehow wins from there and huge boost for trump. Let's see. 

I don't know the ground thoughts of people since I live in pakistab so I will take your word for it about what is blue state and what is red state.


----------



## maximuswarrior

Mansoon said:


> I hope he does. A promise is a promise.



Fully agree. If he doesn't it will be a disgrace and a sign he took many for a false ride.


----------



## saiyan0321

Scratch that washingtone falls to blue as predicted by @LA se Karachi

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## Mansoon

HAHAHAHA. Donald Trump wins Florida!



maximuswarrior said:


> Fully agree. If he doesn't it will be a disgrace and a sign he took many for a false ride.


Well it all comes down to how many promises are kept.


----------



## LA se Karachi

Mansoon said:


> Its because they represent globalist elite.




The Republicans do so even more. Their policies overwhelmingly favor the rich. They take the votes of poor whites and enact policies that help the rich.

But, Trump has indeed given them the impression that he is on their side. Despite the fact that he is a Manhattan Billionaire and is apart of the very same globalist elite he rails against. I doubt that will change if he becomes President,

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## saiyan0321

Clinton takes lead at Nevada







She is making a comeback. 

She leads at 4 with trump leading at 7


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## maximuswarrior

Nair saab said:


> American media sounds like they are Blaming White americans for Trump Victories... I Love seeing Leftist Media Butttt Hurt ...



Don't underestimate the implications. The implications are very severe. If Trump gets elected America has altered its course drastically. Big corporate America will suffer and the status quo will suffer big time. It will be some feat if Trump won.


----------



## Mansoon

LA se Karachi said:


> The Republicans do so even more. Their policies overwhelmingly favor the rich. They take the votes of poor whites and enact policies that help the rich.
> 
> But, Trump has indeed given them the impression that he is on their side. Despite the fact that he is a Manhattan Billionaire and is apart of the very same globalist elite he rails against. I doubt that will change if he becomes President,


Give him a chance.



Nair saab said:


> American media sounds like they are Blaming White americans for Trump Victories... I Love seeing Leftist Media Butttt Hurt ...


Yeah they all hate democracy.

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## Water Car Engineer

Hillary is so unlikable it came down to this, neck and neck with Trump.

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## Meengla

My dear neighbor friend is all upset. He's calling, just now, "we live in the stupedest country in the world". He's stunned.


----------



## saiyan0321

Trump takes Georgia

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## Mansoon

Meengla said:


> My dear neighbor friend is all upset. He's calling, just now, "we live in the stupedest country in the world". He's stunned.


See they hate democracy when results are not what they expected.


----------



## maximuswarrior

Water Car Engineer said:


> Hillary is so unlikable it came down to this, neck and neck with Trump.



LOL it will be some sight with that pu$$y grabbing clown in the White House. It will be House of Cards on steroids LOL Russia and China are licking their lips and rubbing their hands.


----------



## cleverrider

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL Get him elected. We will see whether he bans all Muslims in his first hours as he promised. No ifs and buts.



Muslims are too important to ban or ignore. He will soon get a reality check by his advisors.

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## Water Car Engineer

Omfg, I am sorry, this should be serious, but this is some funny shit.

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## Mansoon

cleverrider said:


> Muslims are too important to ban or ignore. He will soon get a reality check by his advisors.


Nah, not really. They are less than 1 percent of total population.


----------



## T-72

big league !


----------



## maximuswarrior

cleverrider said:


> Muslims are too important to ban or ignore. He will soon get a reality check by his advisors.



Well, he has said things and that will be his litmus test along with the wall. He better keep those promises. Man I'm ready to rock and roll! The world on a collision course already.


----------



## saiyan0321

Oh by the way repubs need like 21 seats for the house. Demos need 79


----------



## Saho



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## Water Car Engineer

Yep, this be some crazy shit. cra cra.

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## Mansoon

Donald Trump becomes US President. Its official.


----------



## maximuswarrior

Saho said:


>



LOL nuke codes in the hands of Trump! Just the thought! LOL

NATO and other US allies are going to pay big time! Saudis will pull out their money as promised?

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## saiyan0321

Repubs need only 16 for house.


----------



## LA se Karachi

Mansoon said:


> Give him a chance.




If he's serious about helping the working and middle class, he will dramatically raise the minimum wage, raise taxes on the wealthy, introduce regulation on Wall Street, and stay away from unfavorable trade deals. 

It's a tall order, and he hasn't promised most of this. We'll see what happens. I remain skeptical.

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## saiyan0321

Saho said:


>


.lolzzz funny.


----------



## Mansoon

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL nuke codes in the hands of Trump! Just the thought! LOL


He is a businessman and not a politician.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Phone is blowing up. It's going to be very awkward walking around tomorrow.


----------



## cleverrider

Meengla said:


> My dear neighbor friend is all upset. He's calling, just now, "we live in the stupedest country in the world". He's stunned.



"Reuters in May _2012_, 22 percent of _Americans believed_ that the _world will end_ by the _end_ of _2012_"


----------



## Mansoon

Saho said:


>


Mindless propaganda. Exactly what that lead people to vote Trump.

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## TaiShang

In the event of an eventual defeat, I wonder Mrs. Hillary's situation will recover or not. She might be hunted by the ghost of Gaddafi she assisted and conspired to get murdered.

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## HAIDER

Good news Trump win.................

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## cleverrider

Water Car Engineer said:


> Omfg, I am sorry, this should be serious, but this is some funny shit.



It was gonna be boring with clinton, Trump all the way. I hope he sticks to his words, but soon he will find out the president is not the only powerful thing in america.

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## maximuswarrior

It is not only Hillary which might lose. Obama will be the biggest loser. Many people are forgetting this. The red necks have spoken loud and clear already. This is white angry America showing its colours. No other way to put it.

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## SQ8

cleverrider said:


> "Reuters in May _2012_, 22 percent of _Americans believed_ that the _world will end_ by the _end_ of _2012_"


I see it in that the world STARTED to end in 2012.


----------



## Mansoon

maximuswarrior said:


> It is not only Hillary which might lose. Obama will be the biggest loser. Many people are forgetting this.


Exactly. Obama is the biggest loser of all. 8 years of presidency and this is what he gets.


----------



## Śakra

maximuswarrior said:


> Wow, Trump winning some key swing states! Winning the House in the process. This is too tight. Seems like America might after all elect a loser like Trump LOL Red necks coming out on full force to support their man.



I told you desis were gonna put him in the Chitta house


----------



## HAIDER

But you never know......................................what will be the result ....wait till last moment.....miracle happened ...

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## maximuswarrior

Śakra said:


> I told you desis were gonna put him in the Chitta house



LOL Desi folks didn't do this. This is white angry 'Murica.

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## T-72

Saho said:


>


----------



## grey boy 2

244>197 TRUMP=the death of "TPP"


----------



## T-72

Trump that bitch !

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## Water Car Engineer

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL Desi folks didn't do this. *This is white angry 'Murica.*



Pretty much.


----------



## ranjeet

Has Donald Trump grabbed Uncle Sam by the P**** yet?

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## LA se Karachi

maximuswarrior said:


> This is white angry America showing its colours. No other way to put it.




Economics had a lot to do with it too. It wasn't just about race. Most of his voters were not racist. Many of these same voters voted for Obama twice.

Please stop repeating this over and over. You seem to be obsessed.

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## maximuswarrior

cleverrider said:


> It was gonna be boring with clinton, Trump all the way. I hope he sticks to his words, but soon he will find out the president is not the only powerful thing in america.



You know, the first few hours and days will be extremely critical. Trump will set the tone and everyone wil get the message. Whatever he intends to do he better do it fast and furious. Getting off to a slow start won't be good.


----------



## C130

Mansoon said:


> Mindless propaganda. Exactly what that lead people to vote Trump.




might as well blame Russia


----------



## maximuswarrior

LA se Karachi said:


> Economics had a lot to do with it too. It wasn't just about race. Most of his voters were not racist. Many of these same voters voted from Obama twice.
> 
> Please stop repeating this over and over. You seem to be obsessed.



It is both and you know it too. There are those who are angry because they have lost a job and there are those that are angry and racist. Can't deny it.

I'm very interested in the demographics and voting pattern once the elections are over. That will give us a clear indication what went on. I'm pretty sure it is what I said because Latinos, blacks and Muslims surely didn't mass vote for Trump LOL

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## WaLeEdK2

C130 said:


> might as well blame Russia



I saw someone blaming Putin lmao.


----------



## Mansoon

C130 said:


> might as well blame Russia


I am not against satire, humor of Trump but ridicule is only propaganda.


----------



## Nilgiri

LOCK HER UP.

DRAIN THE SWAMP.

MAGA IS HERE.

CLINTON CUCKS LEAVING THEIR PATHETIC STADIUM CRYING HAHAHAHAHAH

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## LA se Karachi

maximuswarrior said:


> It is both and you know it too.




Race was a factor, yes. But definitely not the biggest one.

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## T-72

Trump is killing it in Utah.

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## Meengla

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL Desi folks didn't do this. This is white angry 'Murica.



Absolutely.
Desis?!! A few Hindu nationalists and even fewer Sikhs or Muslims for Trump?

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## saiyan0321

Utah falls to trump. 

With trump at 238 he only needs 32 votes while Hillary needs 61


----------



## T-72

T-72 said:


> View attachment 350300


?


----------



## Nilgiri

@T-72 

No one expected Wisconsin!!!!!

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## saiyan0321

Oh and the repubs need only ten seats for the house. While demos need 70


----------



## Mansoon

BBC, CNN, Al Jazeera all crying like crazy and blaming the people aka democracy. Cry baby cry.

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## cleverrider

Oscar said:


> I see it in that the world STARTED to end in 2012.



may be thats what "mayan calender" meant -

The Mayan calendar will cycle back to zero on Dec. 21, 2012 for the first time since 3114 B.C. and people around the world—from Argentina to Asia and the Middle East—believe that fact to be an indicator of doomsday.

haha On the other note just heard sarah palin to sky news - "see Britain how we are “”hooking up””, brexit and now this"

Spoke like a true h00k£R, Zardari (the creep) failed. Should have taped that....


----------



## T-72

Nilgiri said:


> @T-72
> 
> No one expected Wisconsin!!!!!


have they called it ?


----------



## Sliver

canada immigration site is down

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## TaiShang

The US might be swaying from extreme liberalist radicalism (which involves strong interference and war making while feeding on the sentiments of not so productive minorities at home) to a complete Republican take over of the country.

This may be the golden opportunity for the Republican to restructure the country, preserve controlled isolationism and join China in reconfiguring a new form of major power relations.

Trump win does not make the US a friend of China; but it makes the US more predictable than an extremely formless and unpredictable Obama administration.

One thing we can, at least, agree about is how to define terrorism as terrorism, be it in Syria or in France.

If Trump eventually wins, hats off to the wisdom of the *real *American people, who are roughly half of the country.

It is good that Trump did not receive support from minorities (races and religion). Now he knows whose interests he represents and to whom the country really belongs.

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## cleverrider

maximuswarrior said:


> It is not only Hillary which might lose. Obama will be the biggest loser. Many people are forgetting this. The red necks have spoken loud and clear already. This is white angry America showing its colours. No other way to put it.



You can not just hide it for too long, happens all the time on this very forum with fake I.D,s.


----------



## Mansoon

Liberal Leftist media whining bitches.

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## maximuswarrior

LA se Karachi said:


> Race was a factor, yes. But definitely not the biggest one.



One of the biggest factors along with other major factors. You will see in the coming days if Trump really carries out his tough promises such as building the wall, banning Muslims and getting tough on black African Americans etc. by enabling the police. Race riots happening.


----------



## Nilgiri

T-72 said:


> have they called it ?



Its good as called bro. MSM doesnt want to show you the math....but I did it (just like I did for Florida earlier).

About 98% confidence now of him winning Wisconsin. For Michigan its around 70% currently (confidence level).

UPDATE: Iowa called

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## Saho

_Peace out USA - Canada.




_

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## maximuswarrior

cleverrider said:


> You can not just hide it for too long, happens all the time on this very forum with fake I.D,s.



LOL hold on bro. Let Trump win first. You can deport me afterwards from this forum LOL

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## Mansoon

Saho said:


> _Peace out USA - Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


----------



## saiyan0321

IOWA falls to trump as trumo stands at 244 with only 26 needed!!

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## Meengla

maximuswarrior said:


> One of the biggest factors along with other major factors. You will see in the coming days if Trump really carries out his tough promises such as building the wall, banning Muslims and getting tough on black African Americans etc. by enabling the police.



Nah, Trump is NOT a racist deep down. It may surprise you to hear me say that. Trump is nothing. No one. And that's actually worse than something.
Anything.

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## KAL-EL

LA se Karachi said:


> Race was a factor, yes. But definitely not the biggest one.



I keep thinking back to what Michael Moore said on Bill Maher's show not too long ago. Michael Moore who is not a fan of Donald Trump and voted for Hillary btw

He said that after talking to many Trump voters in Michigan, that essentially that most of those voters weren't fans of his personal character and antics, but that they were still going to vote for Trump because they saw him as one giant virtual Fu Molotov cocktail against 'the system'

That Trump was their instrument of striking back.

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## Nilgiri

Trump just gets ahead in pennsylvania again!

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## Desert Fox

Sliver said:


> canada immigration site is down


Too bad they won't go to Mexico, but prefer to go to Canada which is an even Whiter country then America. That is how you know these pathetic leftists and liberals are closet racists. They like to project their own mentality on to others.

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## maximuswarrior

TaiShang said:


> The US might be swaying from extreme liberalist radicalism (which involves strong interference and war making while feeding on the sentiments of not so productive minorities at home) to a complete Republican take over of the country.
> 
> This may be the golden opportunity for the Republican to restructure the country, preserve controlled isolationism and join China in reconfiguring a new form of major power relations.
> 
> Trump win does not make the US a friend of China; but it makes the US more predictable than an extremely formless and unpredictable Obama administration.
> 
> One thing we can, at least, agree about is how to define terrorism as terrorism, be it in Syria or in France.
> 
> If Trump eventually wins, hats off to the wisdom of the *real *American people, who are roughly half of the country.
> 
> It is good that Trump did not receive support from minorities (races and religion). Now he knows whose interests he represents and to whom the country really belongs.
> 
> View attachment 350480



Agree on the predictability part. We know what we got in the White House. Whether it is good or bad I'll leave upto to the inviduals to judge for themselves. America is about to change big time.


----------



## T-72

Nilgiri said:


> Its good as called bro. MSM doesnt want to show you the math....but I did it (just like I did for Florida earlier).
> 
> About 98% confidence now of him winning Wisconsin. For Michigan its around 70% currently (confidence level).
> 
> UPDATE: Iowa called


mashallah !

we are witnessing an epic victory of good vs evil here 

up 8k votes in PA !

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## Meengla

TaiShang said:


> The US might be swaying from extreme liberalist radicalism (which involves strong interference and war making while feeding on the sentiments of not so productive minorities at home) to a complete Republican take over of the country.




Yes!!!


----------



## LA se Karachi

maximuswarrior said:


> One of the biggest factors along with other major factors. You will see in coming days.




Significant, but not one of the biggest, no. African-American Barack Obama greatly outperformed her among rural and working-class white voters. Those were among his his worst groups, but he still performed respectably. Your comments make no sense. Look at 2008/2012 results in white counties and very white states vs results for (white) Hillary Clinton today. 

The anti-establishment mood, lack of attention given to and declining situation of the working and middle classes, along with the terrible candidate that is Hillary Clinton is what led us to this. Not race.

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## Desert Fox

KAL-EL said:


> I keep thinking back to what Michael Moore said on Bill Maher's show not too long ago. Michael Moore who is not a fan of Donald Trump and voted for Hillary btw
> 
> He said that after talking to many Trump voters in Michigan, that essentially that most of those voters weren't fans of his personal character and antics, but that they were still going to vote for Trump because they saw him as one giant virtual Fu Molotov cocktail against 'the system'


The system that f*cked them over (for lack of better word) and threw them under the bus. And its really sad that most of the minorities instead of sympathizing with the White working class decided to join in on the bashing and attacking of the White working class, thus feeding into a strong White identity movement which has now culminated into this massive force that has crushed every single career politician in its path.

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## Nilgiri

KAL-EL said:


> I keep thinking back to what Michael Moore said on Bill Maher's show not too long ago. Michael Moore who is not a fan of Donald Trump and voted for Hillary btw
> 
> He said that after talking to many Trump voters in Michigan, that essentially that most of those voters weren't fans of his personal character and antics, but that they were still going to vote for Trump because they saw him as a giant virtual Fu Molotov cocktail against 'the system'



Yup the anti-politician nature of Trump is probably the biggest asset he has.

He needs to put trey gowdy as AG ASAP after taking office. That will be his single biggest important first move.

Such an opportunity does not come along frequently. In fact probably once every 2 - 3 generations to take on the corrupt political class and beat the living crap out of them.

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## Water Car Engineer

This is the most divided I felt the country. It's really showing.




KAL-EL said:


> I keep thinking back to what Michael Moore said on Bill Maher's show not too long ago. Michael Moore who is not a fan of Donald Trump and voted for Hillary btw
> 
> *He said that after talking to many Trump voters in Michigan, that essentially that most of those voters weren't fans of his personal character and antics, but that they were still going to vote for Trump because they saw him as one giant virtual Fu Molotov cocktail against 'the system'*
> 
> That Trump was their instrument of striking back.




Yup, didnt like the current status quo.

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## maximuswarrior

Meengla said:


> Nah, Trump is NOT a racist deep down. It may surprise you to hear me say that. Trump is nothing. No one. And that's actually worse than something.
> Anything.



Perhaps, but he has a lot of racist support and he has made some insane promises to keep this base happy. We will see how much of an anti-politician Trump is. Just let him get elected and the first few days and weeks will prove decisive.


----------



## Mansoon

T-72 said:


> we are witnessing an epic victory of good vs evil here


Yup good people vs evil elite.



maximuswarrior said:


> Perhaps, but he has a lot of racist support and he has made some insane promises to keep this base happy.


So what? killary is also making a corrupt elite happy.



Water Car Engineer said:


> This is the most divided I felt the country. It's really showing.


Mass Immigration divides people. Not a shocker here.

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## saiyan0321

Hilary leads at Nevada, Maine and massachusetts 

Trump leads at Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, new Hampshire and arizone

Repubs at house with 215 needing only 3. Demos aren't even in the scene with requiring 60+

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## T-72

enjoy the sweet tears of these liberlol regressive lefty losers at junk uygur's young turds !






big big big league ! \m/

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## KAL-EL

maximuswarrior said:


> Perhaps, but *he has a lot of racist support* and he has made some insane promises to keep this base happy.



He sure did, and he sure didn't mind getting their vote im sure, but he doesn't give a damn about them.

Those poor white nationalists are going to be really upset with him when he doesn't fulfill what they think he should.

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## maximuswarrior

Mansoon said:


> Yup good people vs evil elite.
> 
> 
> So what? killary is also making a corrupt elite happy.
> 
> 
> Mass Immigration divides people. Not a shocker here.



LOL at good vs evil. That depends on how you define good and evil.

Just wait and hold your horse for a moment. We will see the true Trump after the inauguration. How much of an anti-politician he is as some claim here.


----------



## LA se Karachi

KAL-EL said:


> He said that after talking to many Trump voters in Michigan, that essentially that most of those voters weren't fans of his personal character and antics, but that they were still going to vote for Trump because they saw him as one giant virtual Fu Molotov cocktail against 'the system'
> 
> *That Trump was their instrument of striking back.*




I couldn't have said it better, myself.

Well, it seems they've gotten what they wanted.


----------



## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> Too bad they won't go to Mexico, but prefer to go to Canada which is an even Whiter country then America. That is how you know these pathetic leftists and liberals are closet racists. They like to project their own mentality on to others.



Bhai, no world war 3! We can rest easy finally!

Whole (wise) world must celebrate!

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## maximuswarrior

KAL-EL said:


> He sure did, and he sure didn't mind getting their vote im sure, but he doesn't give a damn about them.
> 
> Those poor white nationalists are going to be really upset with him when he doesn't fulfill what they think he should.



That is what I'm saying. 100% true.

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## saiyan0321

Oh by the way at the senate the repubs need 3 and demos need 4. Nail bitter here


----------



## Mansoon

KAL-EL said:


> Those poor white nationalists are going to be really upset with him when he doesn't fulfill what they think he should.


And Killary would?


----------



## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> Bhai, no world war 3! We can rest easy finally!
> 
> Whole (wise) world must celebrate!


Brother! If i could hug you right now, and @T-72

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## maximuswarrior

Desert Fox said:


> Brother! If i could hug you right now, and @T-72



LOL this guy is just a gem! The memes won't stop I guess.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Hillary should be ashamed of herself for losing to Trump. Just forget about politics after this. XD

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## Mansoon

T-72 said:


> enjoy the sweet tears of these liberlol regressive lefty losers at junk uygur's young turds !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> big big big league ! \m/


Young Turds. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Hillary should be ashamed of herself for losing to Trump. Just forget about politics after this. XD


Why should she? Its people who voted her out.

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## Desert Fox

Mansoon said:


> Young Turds.


Wait wait wait, you forgot an important detail, its : *The* Young Turds


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Mansoon said:


> Why should she? Its people who voted her out.



Politics in any shape or form. Just retire.

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## saiyan0321

The house falls to the republicans!!!!


----------



## Mansoon

CNN is blaming the people for voting Trump. How sick is that?

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## LA se Karachi

Water Car Engineer said:


> Politics in any shape or form. Just retire.




Indeed. She is probably the worst Democratic Presidential candidate in almost 30 years.


----------



## Meengla

maximuswarrior said:


> Perhaps, but he has a lot of racist support and he has made some insane promises to keep this base happy. We will see how much of an anti-politician Trump is. Just let him get elected and the first few days and weeks will prove decisive.




I just told my dejected uber-Democratic neighbor: Trumps is likely to be impeached long before his 4 years.


----------



## maximuswarrior

Desert Fox said:


> Wait wait wait, you forgot an important detail, its : *The* Young Turds



Man, this guy is having a field day!


----------



## SQ8

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I am at a Trump rally in Manhattan, and thousands are chanting &quot;We hate Muslims, we hate blacks, we want our great country back&quot;. Disgusting</p>&mdash; Simon Rowntree (@SRowntreeNews) <a href="

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796141495573155840">November 9, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


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## cleverrider

KAL-EL said:


> He sure did, and he sure didn't mind getting their vote im sure, but he doesn't give a damn about them.
> 
> Those poor white nationalists are going to be really upset with him when he doesn't fulfill what they think he should.



They can "make america great again" in their dreams  He does not care about his workers let alone random people


----------



## Mansoon

Water Car Engineer said:


> Politics in any shape or form. Just retire.


She wont as she is a career politician.

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## saiyan0321

Nevada falls to clinton as she needs 55 to win POTUS


----------



## KAL-EL

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL this guy is just a gem! The memes won't stop I guess.



I kid you not! I was literally just thinking to myself "desert fox is going to keep this thread alive forever" 

All hail the meme king @Desert Fox 

He's okay by me.

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## Shakuni & Ravan



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## Mansoon

Oscar said:


> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I am at a Trump rally in Manhattan, and thousands are chanting &quot;We hate Muslims, we hate blacks, we want our great country back&quot;. Disgusting</p>&mdash; Simon Rowntree (@SRowntreeNews) <a href="
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796141495573155840">November 9, 2016</a></blockquote>
> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


It clearly shows how fcked up White American Middle Class is.


----------



## anon45

Well its looking like a Trump win, I guess my view was inaccurate.

I hope he surprises and is actually a good president, but I feel he will do far more damage to the Republic than otherwise. Congratulations America, Here's hoping you were right and this doesn't come back to bite us. I'd love to be proven wrong, but my stock portfolio will take a beating in the meantime.

Regardless, it was definitively shown that white America is still the most powerful force in the country, I hope this doesn't inflame racial tensions.

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## Desert Fox

Mansoon said:


> CNN is blaming the people for voting Trump. How sick is that?


They don't call it *C*linton *N*ews *N*etwork for nothing.

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## maximuswarrior

Water Car Engineer said:


> Hillary should be ashamed of herself for losing to Trump. Just forget about politics after this. XD



It is not just her. Obama also has played his role.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

LA se Karachi said:


> Indeed. She is probably the worst Democratic Presidential candidate in almost 30 years.




I am pretty amazed at how many people really cant stand her. Let's be honest with a really good candidate, Trump would've lost, but she's that disliked by the public. Like the other guy said, a lot of these voters voted for Trump as a giant **** you to the current status quo combined with disliking her as a person.

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## heisenberg

16 may 2014 Deja Vu....happy. Feelings

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## maximuswarrior

Oscar said:


> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I am at a Trump rally in Manhattan, and thousands are chanting &quot;We hate Muslims, we hate blacks, we want our great country back&quot;. Disgusting</p>&mdash; Simon Rowntree (@SRowntreeNews) <a href="
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796141495573155840">November 9, 2016</a></blockquote>
> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



LOL and some members say to me this isn't about race! It is all about race. Welcome to the new reality. Welcome to the new America.

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## Desert Fox

KAL-EL said:


> I kid you not! I was literally just thinking to myself "desert fox is going to keep this thread alive forever"
> 
> All hail the meme king @Desert Fox
> 
> He's okay by me.


Bro, now i will definitely have to keep this thread alive for the next four years Insha Allah

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## LA se Karachi

Nilgiri said:


> Bhai, no world war 3! We can rest easy finally!




I wouldn't be so sure of that. I think chances of "World War III" just went way up.

Global markets and the dollar just took quite a hit too. Oh, what have we done...

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## T-72

Oscar said:


> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I am at a Trump rally in Manhattan, and thousands are chanting &quot;We hate Muslims, we hate blacks, we want our great country back&quot;. Disgusting</p>&mdash; Simon Rowntree (@SRowntreeNews) <a href="
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796141495573155840">November 9, 2016</a></blockquote>
> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


fake !

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## Desert Fox

Oscar said:


> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I am at a Trump rally in Manhattan, and thousands are chanting &quot;We hate Muslims, we hate blacks, we want our great country back&quot;. Disgusting</p>&mdash; Simon Rowntree (@SRowntreeNews) <a href="
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796141495573155840">November 9, 2016</a></blockquote>
> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Video or i don't believe it. This isn't the first time leftists try to spread misinfo to discredit their opponents. The left has a track record of throwing baseless accusations on their opponents and then just disappearing from the scene after the character assassination has been achieved.

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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> fake !



LOL perhaps, but for how long?


----------



## Desert Fox

T-72 said:


> fake !


I was thinking the same. Manhattan, the most LIBERAL part of New York, of all places

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## Water Car Engineer

Desert Fox said:


> Video or i don't believe it. This isn't the first time leftists try to spread misinfo to discredit their opponents. The left has a track record of throwing baseless accusations on their opponents and then just disappearing from the scene after the character assassination has been achieved.




Not buying that either.

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## Shakuni & Ravan

*Ab ki bar Trump ki sarkar*

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## T-72

*No, Trump supporters haven’t been chanting “We hate Muslims, we hate blacks” at a Manhattan rally.


The rumour comes from a tweet by a British parody account. It has been retweeted over 40,000 times already, including by journalists, enough to get the account trending in India and Malaysia. The account is known in the UK for doing this for all sorts of occasions, usually making false claims about chants at sports events. The fact that it subsequently claimed that the chant was being sung to the tune of “Enjoy The Silence” by Depeche Mode might have been a further clue that it didn’t happen.*

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/nov/08/us-election-2016-polls-trump-clinton-live

@maximuswarrior @Oscar

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## GiannKall

Trump will win and he will recognize Jerusalem as an official Israeli capital

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## Desert Fox

Water Car Engineer said:


> Not buying that either.


Maybe if it was Texas, Arizona, North Dakota, then maybe there would have been some credibility, but Manhattan for God's sake??? That's the Democrat heart of New York.

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## ranjeet

Award wapsi and intolerance brigades in US started preparing their placards.

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## maximuswarrior

Shakuni & Ravan said:


> *Ab ki bar Trump ki sarkar*



LMAO ho ja sim sim Trump!


----------



## Russell

Gotta hand it to Trump...this is HIS win. The party didn't get fully behind him, yet he gathered a new coalition of voters and kicked Hillary right in the you know what....

He took Iowa, Wisconsin(!)...and not to mention, Ohio and Florida.

Let's not forget, Obama won all these states TWICE and his popularity is as high as it's been in years and years.

Hillary was meant to be an extension of his work...yet, ppl went the other way.

- obamacare will be gone in 2 months
- supreme court will become right wing again
- with senate/house and presidency...republican agenda will get pushed through with no probably
- Roe v Wade is in trouble 

This is momentous...HUGE

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## JanjaWeed

Hillary got fooled by the pollsters! Every polling agency apart from LA Times gave Clinton huge lead! Maybe that allowed the complacency to set in! 
Oh well.. Trump should thank Julian Assange & FBI director for making his job easy!

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## Oldman1

Trump win! Its over guys! Game over for Hillary!

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## Desert Fox

T-72 said:


> *No, Trump supporters haven’t been chanting “We hate Muslims, we hate blacks” at a Manhattan rally.
> 
> 
> The rumour comes from a tweet by a British parody account. It has been retweeted over 40,000 times already, including by journalists, enough to get the account trending in India and Malaysia. The account is known in the UK for doing this for all sorts of occasions, usually making false claims about chants at sports events. The fact that it subsequently claimed that the chant was being sung to the tune of “Enjoy The Silence” by Depeche Mode might have been a further clue that it didn’t happen.*
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/nov/08/us-election-2016-polls-trump-clinton-live
> 
> @maximuswarrior @Oscar


That is a typical Leftist/Liberal tactic, throw dirt on you opponent and then leave them in the lurch babbling to defend themselves. The left is very dirty, and i'm glad Trump is a thorn in their sides.

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## SQ8

Mansoon said:


> Why is being White and great considered Racist?


Tells you a lot about a racist upbringing if you think colour defines greatness.


----------



## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> *No, Trump supporters haven’t been chanting “We hate Muslims, we hate blacks” at a Manhattan rally.
> 
> 
> The rumour comes from a tweet by a British parody account. It has been retweeted over 40,000 times already, including by journalists, enough to get the account trending in India and Malaysia. The account is known in the UK for doing this for all sorts of occasions, usually making false claims about chants at sports events. The fact that it subsequently claimed that the chant was being sung to the tune of “Enjoy The Silence” by Depeche Mode might have been a further clue that it didn’t happen.*
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/nov/08/us-election-2016-polls-trump-clinton-live
> 
> @maximuswarrior @Oscar



We can never say for sure, but why should we be surprised if it did happen? Won't Trump ban Muslims as promised? Won't he build the wall? Whether we like it or not this the new reality in America. These chants cannot be concealed for much longer because this sentiment exists.


----------



## LA se Karachi

Water Car Engineer said:


> I am pretty amazed at how many people really cant stand her. Let's be honest with a really good candidate, Trump would've lost, but she's that disliked by the public. Like the other guy said, a lot of these voters voted for Trump as a giant **** you to the current status quo combined with disliking her as a person.




Exactly. She's under-prerforming with suburban voters and white women too. Those were supposed to be her firewall. 

I was among her fiercest critics and thought that polls were exaggerating her support. But I didn't expect this. She's far worse of a candidate than even I thought.

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## KAL-EL

GiannKall said:


> Trump will win and he will recognize Jerusalem as an official Israeli capital



That's what he said he was going to do. Now whether he actually does it or not is another story.

Time will tell...

I really wish Admiral William Adama was alive right now. Would really like to hear his opinion of all this election stuff.


----------



## saiyan0321

Trump takes the lead at new Hampshire..

Hilary left with Minnesota and maine


----------



## iPhone

JanjaWeed said:


> Hillary got fooled by the pollsters! Every polling agency apart from LA Times gave Clinton huge lead! Maybe that allowed the complacency to set in!
> Oh well.. Trump should thank Julian Assange & FBI director for making his job easy!


Not really, she only led by one or two points up until end of last week. She only pulled a double digit lead for a short while after the first two debates.


----------



## heisenberg

maximuswarrior said:


> We can never say for sure, but why should we be surprised if it did happen? Won't Trump ban Muslims as promised? Won't he build the wall? Whether we like it or not this the new reality in America. These chants cannot be concealed for much longer because this sentiment exists.


He will do nothing sort of that..just wait for coming days and you will know why Trump haters were wrong


----------



## Devil Soul

Nevada goes to Clinton ... that's a boost


----------



## Desert Fox

Oh bhai saab @RabzonKhan , kithay ho thussi???

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## Shakuni & Ravan

*If Trump wins good news for India and Russia*

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## Mansoon

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL and some members say to me this isn't about race! It is all about race. Welcome to the new reality. Welcome to the new America.


No its not about race. Its about a diminishing White majority Middle Class.



LA se Karachi said:


> Oh, what have we done...


You just exercised your right to vote.



Shakuni & Ravan said:


> *If Trump wins good news for India and Russia*


It will be good for America.


----------



## Shakuni & Ravan

*If trump wins bad news for Mexico,China and Pakistan compared to clinton*


----------



## TaiShang

maximuswarrior said:


> We can never say for sure, but why should we be surprised if it did happen? Won't Trump ban Muslims as promised? Won't he build the wall? Whether we like it or not this the new reality in America. These chants cannot be concealed for much longer because this sentiment exists.



I think these are all good signs as we may now be reverting back to the long-weakened Westphalian nation state. Multiculturalism in extreme porous form is better be stopped because it breeds social uncohesiveness and creates pockets of areas with social ills are abundant.

The political correctness of not calling a terrorist a terrorist, but some sort of angry youth or freedom fighter may now be stopped.

No more every unhappy group of people deserving a state of their own.

I began to sympathize with Trump's ideas when he clearly referred to himself as being anti-globalist. The MSM has subdued most of his messages, but, he has very strong opinion of nation state and cultural clarity.

Perhaps, with Trump elected, the old regionalism is entirely dead (EU's disintegration might speed up). Now, the room is more open for new regionalism such as the OBOR.

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## Desert Fox

Shakuni & Ravan said:


> *If Trump wins good news for India and Russia*


Good news for the world as World War Three with Russia over "moderate" terrorists in Syria will be averted.

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## Mansoon

Oscar said:


> Tells you a lot about a racist upbringing if you think colour defines greatness.


I don't believe color defines greatness. What I said was that if someone is White and is considered great as part of majority Middle Class, it should not be defined as racist.


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## ranjeet




----------



## anon45

heisenberg said:


> He will do nothing sort of that..just wait for coming days and you will know why Trump haters were wrong



I really hope I'm wrong, he hasn't given any indication though.

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## LA se Karachi

ranjeet said:


>




I can only imagine what must be going on at the White House right now...

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## Shakuni & Ravan

Trump wins can make India and US more closer than clinton though his focus on creating jobs in US

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## JanjaWeed

Liberal leftists getting their *** wupped even in developed western world. More & more countries turning conservative & nationalistic! Political correctness gone mad...& elitists paying for it!

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## SOHEIL

Yesssss


----------



## Mansoon

TaiShang said:


> I began to sympathize with Trump's ideas when he clearly referred to himself as being anti-globalist. The MSM has subdued most of his messages, but, he has very strong opinion of nation state and cultural clarity.


Exactly. The big global elite fcked America and majority of Americans just reclaimed their country.

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## cleverrider

Shakuni & Ravan said:


> *If trump wins bad news for Mexico,China and Pakistan compared to clinton*



Calm down with the red font. He did mention India taking up their jobs and he will bring the jobs back.

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## SQ8

Mansoon said:


> I don't believe color defines greatness. What I said was that if someone is White and is considered great as part of majority Middle Class, it should not be defined as racist.


depends on the emphasis on white.


----------



## cleverrider

SOHEIL said:


> Yesssss



The geezer hates Iran to the hell and back. Are you happy because he will take america down the drain faster than Hillary

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## saiyan0321

Desert Fox said:


> Good news for the world as World War Three with Russia over "moderate" terrorists in Syria will be averted.



Not just that but Hilary's involvement in Libya and the current state of Libya highlights that all she would have done is forward an interventionist policy which is detrimental for the nations as the regions.

Personally I think she would have been worse for the middle east and even for Pakistan. Obama was hailed as a great guy for pakistan and the middle east and he played a huge hand in nearly destroying the region with supporting terrorists to kill other terrorists who were also getting support from some sectors of the deep state.

Let's see what happens. These were the least two liked candidates as far as I have observed the US elections.

Literally picking the lesser of evils


----------



## Śakra

Sliver said:


> canada immigration site is down



STAY OUTTA HERE WE'RE FULL 

jkjkjk but we need a ban on Americans until we can separate the good ones from the bad.


----------



## Clutch

Shakuni & Ravan said:


> *If Trump wins good news for India and Russia*


I predict many hindus and Sikhs being shot in the streets... ironically the Hindu look is confused as Muslim in America... sadly laughable...

BTW.. I am pro Trump... he is better for the world.. Puts China squarely in pakistan's block... 

Trump has China phobia...


----------



## Shakuni & Ravan

cleverrider said:


> Calm down with the red font. He did mention India taking up their jobs and he will bring the jobs back.



He make that concern more towards china than India.Indian software outsourcing industry have concern but US companies looking for profit and not what US presidents says neither he can't dictate to a certain limit over MNCs


----------



## KAL-EL

Mansoon said:


> And Killary would?



'Killary' I highly doubt would fulfill many of her promises to her base.

You seem to be a bit defensive based at what I said and there's no reason for it.

Just because I said Trump most likely wouldn't come through with what some of his white nationalist supporters hope and project onto him, doesn't mean it's automatically a pro Hillary comment.

As I'm not a big fan of hers at all.

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## cleverrider

Oscar said:


> Tells you a lot about a racist upbringing if you think colour defines greatness.




Political correctness, it’s not necessary to analyse everything sometimes you just judge it by a simple look.


----------



## KingRaj

Henceforth I name him Donaldus Triumphus.


----------



## JanjaWeed

Becomes easy to deal with the outcome when you are not a fan of either of the candidates! But have to ask..why there is a dearth of able leadership in a country like US? I mean..couldn't they find any better than Clinton & Trump?

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## Śakra

Meengla said:


> Nah, Trump is NOT a racist deep down. It may surprise you to hear me say that. Trump is nothing. No one. And that's actually worse than something.
> Anything.



Is he the Faceless Man?


----------



## manlion

if Trump wins, Melania will be the best looking 1st lady

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## Desert Fox

JanjaWeed said:


> Liberal leftists getting their *** wupped even in developed western world. More & more countries turning conservative & nationalistic! Political correctness gone mad...& elitists paying for it!


That's just history repeating itself. Whenever the extreme left takes over, they repress people's freedom to such an extent that a powerful right wing backlash is only a matter of time. It's the pendulum effect, and now the momentum has pushed the pendulum towards the right not just in the US but all throughout the West.

Wherever in you look in history, whether it was the Sparticus uprising in Germany that gave rise to the Nazis, or the Republican movement in Spain that gave rise to the Falangists, or the Bolshevik movement in Russia and 70+ years of Communism which now gave birth to a Orthodox Nationalist Russia, the left, with it's extreme utopian agenda, is what creates the Right.

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## Water Car Engineer

manlion said:


> if Trump wins, Melania will be the best looking 1st lady




Lmao...


----------



## Shakuni & Ravan

Clutch said:


> I predict many hindus and Sikhs being shot in the streets... ironically the Hindu look is confused as Muslim in America... sadly laughable...
> 
> BTW.. I am pro Trump... he is better for the world.. Puts China squarely in pakistan's block...
> 
> Trump has China phobia...



Pakistan already in china's block no matter who is the US president.He will be hostile towards China and so try to more close towards India


----------



## SQ8

Mansoon said:


> I don't believe color defines greatness. What I said was that if someone is White and is considered great as part of majority Middle Class, it should not be defined as racist.


depends on the emphasis on white


Desert Fox said:


> That's just history repeating itself. Whenever the extreme left takes over, they repress people's freedom to such an extent that a powerful right wing backlash is only a matter of time. It's the pendulum effect, and now the momentum has pushed the pendulum towards the right not just in the US but all throughout the West.
> 
> Wherever in you look in history, whether it was the Sparticus uprising in Germany that gave rise to the Nazis, or the Republican movement in Spain that gave rise to the Falangists, or the Bolshevik movement in Russia and 70+ years of Communism which now gave birth to a Orthodox Nationalist Russia, the left, with it's extreme utopian agenda, is what creates the Right.


Essentially, we are coming to the clash of civilisations as has happened many times before in the Earth's cycle.
Nothing to be afraid of.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

First immigrant first lady.


----------



## Meengla

KAL-EL said:


> I kid you not! I was literally just thinking to myself "desert fox is going to keep this thread alive forever"
> 
> All hail the meme king @Desert Fox
> 
> He's okay by me.




And just few hours ago I was advising @Desert Fox to do better memes of Hillary.
Oh, how, the mighties have fallen!!! 

My neighbor left just a couple of minutes ago. Dejected. No wine or beer would console him. Not even the Pakistani 'Aoolo Mutter'. 
As for me.. sad but not too dejected.
I think Trump will not last a year--he'll be IMPEACHED within one year

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## KAL-EL

We need the Justice League for this Brave New World.

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## Nair saab

maximuswarrior said:


> Don't underestimate the implications. The implications are very severe. If Trump gets elected America has altered its course drastically. Big corporate America will suffer and the status quo will suffer big time. It will be some feat if Trump won.


what ever it may be ... American politics and foreign policy would take a new turn ... a change weather good or bad is the need... Trump will shake things up... would be good for all... Never be afraid of the change ... 


World should embrace the decision ... We cant go with business as usual...

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## T-123456

Wow,looks like Trump will win it.

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## LA se Karachi

Though the networks haven't officially called it yet, it's all but over.

It looks like Trump will win Wisconsin and Michigan, and Hillary has fallen behind in Pennsylvania


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## cleverrider

Shakuni & Ravan said:


> He make that concern more towards china than India.Indian software outsourcing industry have concern but US companies looking for profit and not what US presidents says neither he can't dictate to a certain limit over MNCs



That is your opinion, I am telling you what he said directly quoting him

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-stealing-jobs-again/articleshow/51183534.cms

Donald Trump Accuses China,_* India,*_ Vietnam And Mexico Of Poaching American Jobs
http://www.ibtimes.com/donald-trump...vietnam-mexico-poaching-american-jobs-2320969

Hindus are looking for a saviour that can help them somehow with getting back at Muslims for their 1000 year of rule, not gonna happen. Not trump, not america, not putin. Not much will change, if Trump goes against the establishment and their plan for Asia it could be bad news for India.

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## Mansoon

Oscar said:


> Essentially, we are coming to the clash of civilisations as has happened many times before in the Earth's cycle.
> Nothing to be afraid of.


Clash between which civilisations?


----------



## SQ8

Mansoon said:


> Clash between which civilisations?


North/South, East and West.

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## Desert Fox

Meengla said:


> And just few hours ago I was advising @Desert Fox to do better memes of Hillary.
> Oh, how, the mighties have fallen!!!
> 
> My neighbor left just a couple of minutes ago. Dejected. No wine or beer would console him. Not even the Pakistani 'Aoolo Mutter'.
> As for me.. sad but not too dejected.
> I think Trump will not last a year--he'll be IMPEACHED within one year


Don't worry, i have more on the way.


----------



## KAL-EL

LA se Karachi said:


> Though the networks haven't officially called it yet, it's all but over.
> 
> It looks like Trump will win Wisconsin and Michigan, and Hillary has *fallen behind in Pennsylvania*



I live in Pennsylvania, and for months, I kept hearing how Republicans trying to win Pennsylvania was basically Fool's Gold. 

Just for some perspective, I think the last time a Republican presidential candidate won Pennsylvania was in 1988.

Even if she does end up winning Pennsylvania in a squeaker, that still shows how many people were so angry and upset.

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## Śakra

Oscar said:


> Tells you a lot about a racist upbringing if you think colour defines greatness.



Are you Punjabi and proud?
Are you Pathan and proud?

Are you proud of your ethnicity? White in America is an ethnicity because they are too mixed to point to one country alone.

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## JanjaWeed

Desert Fox said:


> That's just history repeating itself. Whenever the extreme left takes over, they repress people's freedom to such an extent that a powerful right wing backlash is only a matter of time. It's the pendulum effect, and now the momentum has pushed the pendulum towards the right not just in the US but all throughout the West.
> 
> Wherever in you look in history, whether it was the Sparticus uprising in Germany that gave rise to the Nazis, or the Republican movement in Spain that gave rise to the Falangists, or the Bolshevik movement in Russia and 70+ years of Communism which now gave birth to a Orthodox Nationalist Russia, the left, with it's extreme utopian agenda, is what creates the Right.


Just goes to show too much of everything is too bad! Political correctness reached a kind of level where it's almost shameful to be seen or known as nationalistic & have opposite ideological / political views! & it's 'enough is enough' for silent majority..It showed in BREXIT & it's showing now! 
Liberals underestimated & got fooled by the silent during BREXIT..& once again today!

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## Nair saab

Black Life matters lol... idiots Leftist ... they had a black president what more did they want ... they were asking for Trump...

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## ashok321



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## SQ8

Śakra said:


> Are you Punjabi and proud?
> Are you Pathan and proud?
> 
> Are you proud of your ethnicity? White in America is an ethnicity because they are too mixed to point to one country alone.


Not a bit. I dont suffer from delusions of skin colour. 
I am proud of being from one country perhaps, but never of one race or ethnicity. 
That boundary ends once you are part of a state.



JanjaWeed said:


> Just goes to show too much of everything is too bad! Political correctness reached a kind of level where it's almost shameful to be seen or known as nationalistic & have opposite ideological / political views! & it's 'enough is enough' for silent majority..It showed in BREXIT & it's showing now!
> Liberals underestimated & got fooled by the silent during BREXIT..& once again today!



What was underestimated was the people's tolerance for the same elitist quo. The rest of liberal , rightwing crap is IRRELEVANT in ANY scenario. Bhutto was right all the time; ROTI, Kapra and Makaan are the core motivations..only then does anything else come into play.

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## T-72

give us confirmation so I can crack open a rare morning beer already 

big big big league !!!!!!!!!!!!! 

infowars and young turds are both running livestreams, a true study in contrasts

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## OldTwilight

Wow, in Iran , reformists media were talking about " why it is necessary for democracy that Clinton win with big magin " 

First they were shocked , and now they are insulting Americans peoples ( just like what when they lose an election in Iran ) 

Well , look like Trump threat force system to honor American people choose and don't hijack it ....


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## LA se Karachi

KAL-EL said:


> I live in Pennsylvania, and for months, I kept hearing how Republicans trying to win Pennsylvania was basically Fool's Gold. I think the last time a Republican presidential candidate won Pennsylvania was in 1988.




I felt exactly the same way, before today. "Fool's gold" is the exact phrase I used to describe Pennsylvania whenever discussing Republican chances in Presidential elections there.

However, it seems that Hillary is the worst Democratic Presidential candidate since Michael Dukakis. Then again, George Bush Sr. was no Trump.



KAL-EL said:


> Even if she does end up winning Pennsylvania in a squeaker, that still shows how many people were so angry and upset.




Indeed.

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## Shakuni & Ravan

cleverrider said:


> That is your opinion, I am telling you what he said directly quoting him
> 
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-stealing-jobs-again/articleshow/51183534.cms
> 
> Donald Trump Accuses China,_* India,*_ Vietnam And Mexico Of Poaching American Jobs
> http://www.ibtimes.com/donald-trump...vietnam-mexico-poaching-american-jobs-2320969
> 
> Hindus are looking for a saviour that can help them somehow with getting back at Muslims for their 1000 year of rule, not gonna happen. Not trump, not america, not putin. Not much will change, if Trump goes against the establishment and their plan for Asia it could be bad news for India.



Trump already made ultimatum speech against pakistan try to take out the Dr. for osama episode and concern nuclear weapons program.So a very hostile US will also put pressure on pakistan to act against non-state actors as well.There might not be any significant financial or defence aid for pakistan during Trump administration.


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## saiyan0321

Repubs need only two seats at the senate.

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## KAL-EL

LA se Karachi said:


> I felt exactly the same way, before today. "Fool's gold" is the exact phrase I used to describe Pennsylvania whenever discussing Republican chances in Presidential elections there.
> 
> However, it seems that Hillary is the worst Democratic Presidential candidate since Michael Dukakis. Then again, George Bush Sr. was no Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed.



I'm from Philadelphia, which is a hugely democrat-leaning City.

I forget at the moment what the exact Democrat to Republican registered ratio is here.

But I know the gap is huge

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## JanjaWeed

Nair saab said:


> Black Life matters lol... idiots Leftist ... they had a black president what more did they want ... they were asking for Trump...


It's scary when you know Clinton foundation & ISIS is funded by the same source! looks like that message went through the electorate good & proper!

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## Clutch

Shakuni & Ravan said:


> Pakistan already in china's block no matter who is the US president.He will be hostile towards China and so try to more close towards India


No... i think he has a distain for the dark skinned people... like the indians. Watch and see. 

But i still prefer Donald trump over Hitlery 

At least there is no masking ... it's in the open.

Trump USA! Yeah!


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## Śakra

KAL-EL said:


> I'm from Philadelphia, which is a hugely democrat-leaning City.
> 
> I forget at the moment what the exact Democrat to Republican registered ratio is here.
> 
> But I know the gap is huge



Did you vote for The Caterpillar or Hillz?


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## Mansoon

6 more electorate votes needed. Come on Trump!

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## SOHEIL

Now we need some one like trump in iran... Then we will have so much fun 

Trump wins ... Iran wins !

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## Nair saab

JanjaWeed said:


> It's scary when you know Clinton foundation & ISIS is funded by the same source! looks like that message went through the electorate good & proper!


Yeah with Clinton it was clear that she would go for a war in Syria against Russia to push Oil prices a gratitude for Saudi funding to Clinton Foundation ... Saudi remain the biggest looser... 

I am loving This...

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## KAL-EL

Śakra said:


> Did you vote for The Caterpillar or Hillz?



LOL @ 'the caterpillar'

Some people here didn't like sharing who they voted for, but I don't mind, as I didn't vote for either of them.

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## T-72

Mansoon said:


> 6 more electorate votes needed. Come on Trump!


where are you watching the live map ?

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## Great Sachin

Now Modi is rruling India and US

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## Mansoon

T-72 said:


> where are you watching the live map ?


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2016/presidential-election-headquarters

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## T-72

Syrian rebels , ISIS, and rapefugees must be in tears.

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## KAL-EL

Great Sachin said:


> Now *Modi* is *rruling* India and *US*



Modi is ruling my country now? I must be more buzzed than I thought I was


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## LA se Karachi

KAL-EL said:


> I'm from Philadelphia, which is a hugely democrat-leaning City.




The Philadelphia Metro and Pittsburgh are islands of blue in a sea of red, this election. Hillary is under-performing in the Wyoming Valley and the Lehigh Valley. She barely won Lackawanna County, and lost Erie County altogether. She can't even win Democratic areas...

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## JanjaWeed

Nair saab said:


> Yeah with Clinton it was clear that she would go for a war in Syria against Russia to push Oil prices a gratitude for Saudi funding to Clinton Foundation ... Saudi remain the biggest looser...
> 
> I am loving This...


All those invested in Clintons must be feeling sick as fcuk (including few from our own neck of the woods )! Middleast calculations changed big time...ISIS' last hope dashed! Saudi & Qatar will have to ask for their money back!

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## libertad

Looks like Trump will win. I just hope he puts an end to US meddling in the ME. I won't hold my breath though.

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## saiyan0321

Oh by the way trump is leading in AK which is Alaska I guess


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## Nair saab

Hillary Spend more then 2 Billion Dollar with full celebrity intellectual backing for this 

Trump spend less then a Billion and u can see the results ...

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## T-72

Rachel Maddow, Ariana Huffington, Christine Amanpour.... all these feminist bitches just got grabbed by the pussy and flushed down the toilet.

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## GiannKall

So what exactly all you Trump supporters expect by Trump?


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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> Brother! If i could hug you right now, and @T-72



Theres a huge party right now over here. An isolated enclave of Trump supporters just outside Montreal. 

Feels good bro.

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## Nair saab

*My American Mission over... Whats next FSB*

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## Desert Fox

Trump just won Alaska

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## ashok321




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## Mansoon

Congratulations. Donald Trump is US's president.


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## saiyan0321

Trump needs only six with PA falling. 

The vote lead that was 1.2 million has now increased to 2.3 million. 

Trump is the new US president. Hilary needs 55

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## KAL-EL

GiannKall said:


> So what exactly all you Trump supporters expect by Trump?



They expect an awful lot!

and Trump promised a lot. I'm afraid though, that once he gets into the White House, he's going to find that it's going to be much easier said than done to accomplish some of the things he said he wants to do.

I certainly hope he can affect some change for the better, that's for sure!

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## GiannKall

Trump is just another tool of the system. He will do nothing different

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## JanjaWeed

T-72 said:


> Rachel Maddow, Ariana Huffington, Christine Amanpour.... all these feminist bitches just got grabbed by the pussy and flushed down the toilet.
> 
> View attachment 350487


Add Megyn Kelly too to that list!

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## maximuswarrior

heisenberg said:


> He will do nothing sort of that..just wait for coming days and you will know why Trump haters were wrong



LOL He promised. Is he going to break his promise?


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## Mansoon

GiannKall said:


> Trump is just another tool of the system. He will do nothing different


Still better than Killary

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## Mahmoud_EGY

trump is president at last


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## T-72

GiannKall said:


> So what exactly all you Trump supporters expect by Trump?


as a non American, all I want is for him to come good on his foreign policy ideas of not supporting the Syrian "rebels" and work with Russia to knock the hell out of the jihadis in the middle east. 

world peace and all of that  v

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## BDforever

JanjaWeed said:


> Add Megyn Kelly too to that list!


she is beautiful


----------



## Nilgiri

LA se Karachi said:


> Global markets and the dollar just took quite a hit too. Oh, what have we done...



I will be making a ton of coin form having shorted a lot of my stocks (Esp in Asia). The night keeps getting better.

Guess I really have Hillary's corrupt nature to thank for it! Feels weird.



Desert Fox said:


> Trump just won Alaska
> 
> View attachment 350488​



Reddits already called Trump the winner. Its over bro.

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## Saif al-Arab

I doubt that anything essential will change behind the scenes where the power lies but I will always prefer a more liberal conservative candidate rather than a proponent of liberal socialism.

Trump has a tendency to praise the infrastructure in the GCC and as we all know he loves a good solid wall so I suggest that King Salman shows him the Saudi Arabian-Iraqi border and the Saudi Arabian-Yemeni border.

Likely bad news for the Mullah's too and those states that have enjoyed and benefitted from the catastrophic foreign policy of Obama in the region.




















Remember who basically owns Fox News and many conservative media, lol.






http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...saudi-arabia-911-business-deals-a7038991.html

"The latest filing from Trump Victory, his presidential campaign committee, reveal that Trump now receives donations from lobbyists associated with the very regimes Trump denounced on stage.

Marc Lampkin, a lobbyist for Saudi Arabia, gave recently to the Trump campaign. Lobbyists for BGR Group, another firm representing the Saudi government, have given to the Trump campaign."​
https://theintercept.com/liveblogs/thirddebate/donald-trump-now-accepts-saudi-arabias-lobby-cash/

KSA essentially supported both candidates with symbolic sums of money. Smart business. Can't lose that way.

Trump understands the importance of money, power and influence.

Not to say that KSA always had better relations with the US whenever a Republican president was in power.



GiannKall said:


> Trump is just another tool of the system. He will do nothing different



Agree. No current US allies will be left "to themselves". In fact I predict that the US will do more to keep allies in their camp given the rise of China and what has been happening lately with a few traditional US allies (Philippines, KSA, Israel etc.).

As for Syria it was Obama's deliberate policy to prolong the madness in Syria and destabilize the Middle East. Trump will likely change that for the betterment of all countries in the region overall. Syria is a lost cause anyway and destroyed at least for the next 1-2 generations. Too late to fix it. Let Russia and the Mullah's continue to waste billions in the swamp and on a lost project. KSA has done well to mostly keep out. Besides Yemen is the by far biggest priority and the US is on the side of the legitimate Yemeni regime and will continue to be that as it is in their interests as well.

So all in all, a good result. As for internal US matters, Blacks, Latinos or whatever, none of our business as non-Americans.


----------



## JanjaWeed

BDforever said:


> she is beautiful


But she has blood coming out right now from wherever!

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## KAL-EL

I cordially invite all of my American and non-american friends here over for a giant BBQ.

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## maximuswarrior

TaiShang said:


> I think these are all good signs as we may now be reverting back to the long-weakened Westphalian nation state. Multiculturalism in extreme porous form is better be stopped because it breeds social uncohesiveness and creates pockets of areas with social ills are abundant.
> 
> The political correctness of not calling a terrorist a terrorist, but some sort of angry youth or freedom fighter may now be stopped.
> 
> No more every unhappy group of people deserving a state of their own.
> 
> I began to sympathize with Trump's ideas when he clearly referred to himself as being anti-globalist. The MSM has subdued most of his messages, but, he has very strong opinion of nation state and cultural clarity.
> 
> Perhaps, with Trump elected, the old regionalism is entirely dead (EU's disintegration might speed up). Now, the room is more open for new regionalism such as the OBOR.



It may have some positives, but also many negatives. Heck, I have no problem with Trump being the leader of the US and I have said this all along. In fact, he should win it because in my opinion the American people deserve a leader like him. The Americans have for too long supported wars and interfered in other nations. They have killed scores of innocent people including my native Pakistan. If Trump really means what he says, the US won't interfere in Syria and other places and that can only be a good thing.

Trump isn't bad news for Pakistan, China or Mexico. Trump cannot do jack sh!t to these nations. He will only shoot himself in the foot by opening new fronts.

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## saiyan0321

Social media reporting that senate is under republic control. 

So the 

HOUSE

SENATE

POTUS

all under republican control. They can basically shape america as they see fit.

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## bbccdd1470

KAL-EL said:


> They expect an awful lot!
> 
> and Trump promised a lot. I'm afraid though, that once he gets into the White House, he's going to find that it's going to be much easier said than done to accomplish some of the things he said he wants to do.
> 
> I certainly hope he can affect some change for the better, that's for sure!


At least Hillary will go to jail for her corruption, this is a good thing.

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## T-123456

maximuswarrior said:


> It may have some positives, but also many negatives. Heck, I have no problem with Trump being the leader of the US and I have said this all along. In fact, he should win it because in my opinion the American people deserve a leader like him. The Americans have for too long supported wars and interfered in other nations. They have killed scores of innocent people including my native Pakistan. If Trump really means what he says, the US won't interfere in Syria and other places and that can only be a good thing.
> 
> Trump isn't bad news for Pakistan, China or Mexico. Trump cannot do jack sh!t to these nations.


You know that the president doesnt control the US foreign policy,not much will change.

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## Śakra

Nilgiri said:


> I will be making a ton of coin form having shorted a lot of my stocks (Esp in Asia). The night keeps getting better.
> 
> Guess I really have Hillary's corrupt nature to thank for it! Feels weird.
> 
> 
> 
> Reddits already called Trump the winner. Its over bro.



Thx for the money making tip I really appreciated it.

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## maximuswarrior

T-123456 said:


> You know that the president doesnt control the US foreign policy,not much will change.



No, but the people under him will and we know who they are. They are even worse than Trump I can assure you. Trump is kindergarten stuff. You will forget the likes of Cheney and company. This team under Trump is going to wreak havoc. Remember, they have shaped his campaign and it wasn't a lie. We better start believing what is about to come our way just like Trump's insane victory. Pinch yourself. It really is happening.

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## Desert Fox

saiyan0321 said:


> Social media reporting that senate is under republic control.
> 
> So the
> 
> HOUSE
> 
> SENATE
> 
> POTUS
> 
> all under republican control. They can basically shape america as they see fit.


They can thank Obummer and his leftist policies

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## JanjaWeed

Entire world feeling helpless for Americans right now!

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## Śakra

bbccdd1470 said:


> At least Hillary will go to jail for her corruption, this is a good thing.



Maybe she'll flee to China or Europe for political asylum.


----------



## GiannKall

T-72 said:


> as a non American, all I want is for him to come good on his foreign policy ideas of not supporting the Syrian "rebels" and work with Russia to knock the hell out of the jihadis in the middle east.
> 
> world peace and all of that  v



Basically i want Trump to act like Bush. Send ground forces everywhere and have the Americans start counting coffins again. Bush started with a rhetoric similar to that of Trump. Now he is hiding somewhere in Texas countryside

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## bbccdd1470

Śakra said:


> Maybe she'll flee to China or Europe for political asylum.


This is possible to Europe, but China hate her.


----------



## T-72

Saif al-Arab said:


> Trump




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/675523728055410689

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## LA se Karachi

Nilgiri said:


> I will be making a ton of coin form having shorted a lot of my stocks (Esp in Asia). The night keeps getting better.
> 
> Guess I really have Hillary's corrupt nature to thank for it! Feels weird.




LOL. Saw the writing on the wall, did you? I guess you put your money where your mouth was. A true believer.

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## Robinhood Pandey

JanjaWeed said:


> Entire world feeling helpless for Americans right now!



Now the Americans know . . " how it feels to choose between Mayawati and Mulayam Singh "

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## T-123456

maximuswarrior said:


> No, but the people under him will and we know who they are. They are even worse than trump I can assure you. You will forget the likes of Cheney and co.


Didnt the Republicans controll the Senate and the House during Obama's terms,what do you expect to change now?


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## KAL-EL

Republican Pennsylvania senator Pat Toomey winning reelection and going back to the Senate.

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## Nair saab

Must say Indian media Poll Predictions are far Better then American ones... Bigly ...

American media cursing non white americans who didnt cast their vote...

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## saiyan0321

Hilary takes maine


----------



## Desert Fox

Woohoo

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## Mansoon

T-123456 said:


> You know that the president doesnt control the US foreign policy,not much will change.


He does of course.


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## T-123456

GiannKall said:


> Basically i want Trump to act like Bush. Send ground forces everywhere and have the Americans start counting coffins again. Bush started with a rhetoric similar to that of Trump. Now he is hiding somewhere in Texas countryside


Maybe but his focus is on business,the arms industry will florish but in what way,i dont know.


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## pakdefender

Maybe house prices will fall ? then again maybe not


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## T-72

GiannKall said:


> Basically i want Trump to act like Bush. Send ground forces everywhere and have the Americans start counting coffins again. Bush started with a rhetoric similar to that of Trump. Now he is hiding somewhere in Texas countryside


not going to happen, he's not a neocon.

all I want is dead terrorist rebels in Syria so order can be restored, SU27s in concert with F 15s bombing the shit out of jihadi scumbags, it'll be beautiful to watch.









but who knows, he might end up being a neocon too, we'll just have to wait to find out, lets just enjoy this yuge victory for now

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## maximuswarrior

T-123456 said:


> Didnt the Republicans controll the Senate and the House during Obama's terms,what do you expect to change now?



A lot of change. The House is just a name. Trump and particularly his donors and powerful supporters will dictate what will happen. Just like when Hillary would have been elected. I can assure you. It ain't good what is about to come.

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## Mansoon

5 votes needed.


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## T-123456

Mansoon said:


> He does of course.


Do you know how it all works in the US?


----------



## Mansoon

maximuswarrior said:


> A lot of change. The House is just a name. Trump and particularly his donors and powerful supporters will dictate what will happen. Just like when Hillary would have been elected. I can assure you. It ain't good what is about to come.


No one is funding Trump.


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## Saif al-Arab

T-72 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/675523728055410689



You mean the same Al-Waleed that owns Fox News and the same conservative media that supports Trump? The same guy that helped bail out Trump when he went bankrupt? The same guy who has done business with Trump and CONTINUES to do it. Ah, that guy. I guess that some irrelevant Twiter "rivalry" will change all that. I remember similar statements of Trump in regards to Israel just for him to say a few weeks later that he will support Israel unconditionally and that he supports a Jerusalem under full Jewish control.

The same guy whose family donated money to the Trump campaign?

It's cheap talk. Trump has been inconsistent in his statements and that is deliberate as he has tried to appeal to as many different voter types as possible.

Read my post again. Trump being elected is bad news for the Mullah's. Obama was the worst president for KSA/GCC/Arab world in ages if not in history. Clinton is Obama's henchmen.

Trump/US will definitely side with traditional US allies in the region (Israel, GCC, Turkey) rather than facilitate the rise of US enemies as Obama did and Clinton would do.

You foolishly believe that Obama was anti-Assad or that a unstable Syria benefits anyone in the region that is not Israel. You are wrong on both accounts. An unstable Syria or any Arab country for that matter (Iraq in 2003) only benefits the Mullahs and Israel.

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## Mansoon

T-123456 said:


> Do you know how it all works in the US?


There are some big foreign lobbies but still President has final say.


----------



## maximuswarrior

Desert Fox said:


> Woohoo
> 
> View attachment 350491​



I liked all you memes until you posted this.


----------



## pakdefender

America , what have thou done !


----------



## Clutch

GiannKall said:


> Basically i want Trump to act like Bush. Send ground forces everywhere and have the Americans start counting coffins again. Bush started with a rhetoric similar to that of Trump. Now he is hiding somewhere in Texas countryside


Trump isn't pro war... he is more of an isolationist. His bigotry will mostly be for his own country... which will be further torn apart with them versus us... Indians aren't going to be part of the "us" either... fyi

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## T-123456

maximuswarrior said:


> A lot of change. The House is just a name. Trump and particularly his donors and powerful supporters will dictate what will happen. Just like when Hillary would have been elected. I can assure you. It ain't good what is about to come.


I dont think much will change but lets wait and see.


----------



## ito

So Trump is the next president. Seem god is listening to the pujas by VHP and Bajrang Dal

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## maximuswarrior

Nair saab said:


> Must say Indian media Poll Predictions are far Better then American ones... Bigly ...
> 
> American media cursing non white americans who didnt cast their vote...



Let's get to the business end of things. So, how many jobs is India going to lose under Trump?


----------



## C130

Mansoon said:


> BBC, CNN, Al Jazeera all crying like crazy and blaming the people aka democracy. Cry baby cry.



I was watching some TYT, and basically all they were doing were crying about how white males are racist and sexist, and how white women are dumb for voting for Trump

it's stuff like that would make someone who isn't really racist a racist real quick. when you vilify white men constantly and gloat about the changing demographic. it just goes to show white males got sick and tired of the BS, and the silent majority made their decision.

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## GiannKall

Next secretary of state will be Newt Gingrich who has said that Palestinians are invented people whatever that means. Expect recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and more settlements on Palestinian territories

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## T-72

pedo podesta, "still counting votes, we're not saying anything more tonight" 

looks like crooked ILLary has gone to sleep

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## maximuswarrior

Mansoon said:


> No one is funding Trump.



Nonetheless, he has support from powerful and dubious groups in the US.


----------



## saiyan0321

What's going on at Maine.. It's coloured blue but highlighted red.. Both won from there?


----------



## Mansoon

4 more votes needed.


----------



## Nair saab

Indian American Republican candidate Kamala Harris elected from California defeating Democrat Loretta Sanchez...

Republicans on a Roll ...

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## maximuswarrior

GiannKall said:


> Next secretary of state will be Newt Gingrich who has said that Palestinians are invented people whatever that means. Expect recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and more settlements on Palestinian territories



No doubt wars are going to take place.


----------



## Mansoon

maximuswarrior said:


> He has support from powerful groups in the US.


Still he is a billionaire and can fund himself without blackmail.

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## Counterpunch

KAL-EL said:


> They expect an awful lot!
> 
> and Trump promised a lot. I'm afraid though, that once he gets into the White House, he's going to find that it's going to be much easier said than done to accomplish some of the things he said he wants to do.
> 
> I certainly hope he can affect some change for the better, that's for sure!


Yes you are right. A lot of what he said was for domestic consumption primarily and would (fortunately) be very hard to achieve. But this does also speak about the vision he carries and also about the people of US who have backed that vision up

And I think interest of people here on PDF is not about what he will give to the world, but more about what he might take away. We sincerely hope whatever he gives is good and whatever he takes away is the bad that's prevailing.

P.S: Not the US kind of a bad, but the REAL bad.

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## saiyan0321

Trump needs 4 and hilary needs 55

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## Mansoon

maximuswarrior said:


> No doubt wars are going to take place.


From debt money?


----------



## Nair saab

maximuswarrior said:


> Let's get to the business end of things. So, how many jobs is India going to lose under Trump?


Non for your disappointment ...


----------



## Akasa

So, Trump has Pennsylvania! The American people have once demonstrated the value of democracy no matter what the odds, administration-sponsored or otherwise.

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## maximuswarrior

Mansoon said:


> Still he is a billionaire and can fund himself without blackmail.



That remains to be seen.

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## Clutch

ito said:


> So Trump is the next president. Seem god is listening to the pujas by VHP and Bajrang Dal


Trumtards will shoot up more Sikhs and Hindus than Muslims... you watch and see... that is the common misconception in America...


----------



## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> Nonetheless, he has support from powerful and dubious groups in the US.


no LMAOing anymoar ? 





@Desert Fox

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## maximuswarrior

Nair saab said:


> Non for your disappointment ...



LOL According to Trump he is bringing all jobs back home. No point in waiving the American flag.


----------



## T-72

Clutch said:


> Trumtards will shoot up more Sikhs and Hindus than Muslims... you watch and see... that is the common misconception in America...


it's America, nor some sharia run arab hellhole.


----------



## Gessler

Mansoon said:


> No one is funding Trump.



The Republican Hindu Coalition certainly is. Almost a million dollars.

http://indianexpress.com/article/wo...ican-hindu-coalition-indian-american-2925413/

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## Clutch

GiannKall said:


> Next secretary of state will be Newt Gingrich who has said that Palestinians are invented people whatever that means. Expect recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and more settlements on Palestinian territories


I think it's extermination time for the Palestinians... they are soon to be an extinct race...


----------



## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> no LMAOing anymoar ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Desert Fox



I'm laughing and I'm enjoying it all along. In fact, my wish has come true. I'm going to enjoy every moment for the coming 4 years. Like I said, Trump is a God sent. LMAO

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## GiannKall

T-72 said:


> not going to happen, he's not a neocon.
> 
> all I want is dead terrorist rebels in Syria so order can be restored, SU27s in concert with F 15s bombing the shit out of jihadi scumbags, it'll be beautiful to watch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but who knows, he might end up being a neocon too, we'll just have to wait to find out, lets just enjoy this yuge victory for now



Obama already bombs 7 countries. I am surprised how people dont get it

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## Mansoon

Hillary supporters were sent home.

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## pakdefender

I feel sorry for Hillary Clinton , the glass ceiling for women remains unbroken

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## Desert Fox

​


T-72 said:


> no LMAOing anymoar ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Desert Fox


It's gotten very quite without @RabzonKhan bhai saab.

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## KAL-EL

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL According to Trump he is bringing all jobs back home. No point in waiving the American flag.



I would honestly love to see that happen, but the realist in me knows what the truth is unfortunately.


----------



## ito

Now Modi - Trump - Putin will become the new power Axis. 

Putin is sure to come out of the isolation...Modi will get more military gadgets and deeper support from US ...and Trump will get the ammunition to go after China. 

The world will sure change in the next 5 years.

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## Gessler

pakdefender said:


> America , what have thou done !



What they thought was best for them.

What did you think they were gonna do?

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## Nair saab

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL According to Trump he is bringing all jobs back home. No point in waiving the American flag.




Trump will steal american jobs from rest of the world for India ...


----------



## JanjaWeed

Time to feel the 'Bern' ! How democrats must be missing him right now!


----------



## Nilgiri

LA se Karachi said:


> LOL. Saw the writing on the wall, did you? I guess you put your money where your mouth was. A true believer.



I kinda knew it would sink even if trump lost (just probably more spaced out). Election jitters basically.


----------



## Clutch

T-72 said:


> it's America, nor some sharia run arab hellhole.


Tell that to the Sikhs gurdwara that was shot up a year ago... it isn't the government it's the people...the tumpers... they angry white male now working at walmart because his cushy factory job got shipped to China... and ain't coming back.

Nazi run... shariah run.. Potatoes ... potataatoes 

Again... i say this... I am pro Trump...

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## saiyan0321

Repubs need one more seat for the senate majority. They have 50 whereas demos need four as they have 47


----------



## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> Woohoo
> 
> View attachment 350491​



No concession from Hillary tonite. 

Tastes even better!


----------



## ito

Clutch said:


> Trumtards will shoot up more Sikhs and Hindus than Muslims... you watch and see... that is the common misconception in America...



The US elections is not in my hand. I would have preferred Clinton. But whatever, you have to take good point out of the outcome.

And Trump has soft corner for India. though visas and outsourcing Industry could suffer


----------



## maximuswarrior

ito said:


> Now Modi - Trump - Putin will become the new power Axis.
> 
> Putin is sure to come out of the isolation...Modi will get more military gadgets and deeper support from US ...and Trump will get the ammunition to go after China.
> 
> The world will sure change in the next 5 years.



LOL at *Modi* - Trump - Putin. You can take Modi out of the equation. *Putin* is the real winner and has been all along. Putin is about to become the strongest man in the world with Trump art the helm. No doubt about it.


----------



## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> I'm laughing and I'm enjoying it all along. In fact, my wish has come true. I'm going to enjoy every moment for the coming 4 years. LMAO


it's going to be entertaining, that is for sure. The Donald just became commander in chief of the worlds most powerful military, he will lead NATO, at the UN, chair G-5/10/20s, the beautiful Melania will help orphans and endangered species, it's all coming true. 

@LA se Karachi

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## maximuswarrior

Nair saab said:


> Trump will steal american jobs from rest of the world for India ...



Did he send you a memo?


----------



## saiyan0321

THE SENATE BELONGS TO THE REPUBLICANS. 

HOUSE AND SENATE


----------



## pakdefender

Wow full republican rout

House , Senate , President


----------



## GiannKall

Trumps mastery is the idea that he has managed to delude many Americans that he can solve issues like terrorism. Fact is that Bush sent armies he failed. Obama sent drones he failed. Now expect another 4-8 years of pointless wars

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## Clutch

ito said:


> The US elections is not in my hand. I would have preferred Clinton. But whatever, you have to take good point out of the outcome.


I couldn't stand Hitlery ... i think Trump is better for world peace... it's just that he isn't really good for America itself.

He will alienate the Black's... and 1990s Rodney king riots are going to become common place... and the white mass shootings wouldn't be far behind... on average there are two mass shooting in America. This will get worse.


----------



## Desert Fox

Memes incoming















​

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## T-72

Clutch said:


> Tell that to the Sikhs gurdwara that was shot up a year ago... it isn't the government it's the people...the tumpers... they angry white male now working at walmart because his cushy factory job got shipped to China... and ain't coming back.
> 
> Nazi run... shariah run.. Potatoes ... potataatoes
> 
> Again... i say this... I am pro Trump...


isolated incidents, nobody is going to start shooting up minorities just because Trump has won, despite their flaws, they are an advanced society, you made them sound like a bunch of sharia believing middle eastern jihadis.

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## Clutch

pakdefender said:


> Wow full republican rout
> 
> House , Senate , President


And don't forget Trump gets to nominate two supreme Court judges... in essence he has all the power

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## saiyan0321

pakdefender said:


> Wow full republican rout
> 
> House , Senate , President



Complete power at the hands of republicans.

That's like N winning every provincial election in all the provinces, national election and the senate. :p :p


----------



## JanjaWeed

Nilgiri said:


> No concession from Hillary tonite.
> 
> Tastes even better!


She must be cursing her luck right now..last time around it was Obama in primaries & this time Trump in the big one! Life is really a b!tch right now for the Clintons!

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## pakdefender

Gessler said:


> What they thought was best for them.
> 
> What did you think they were gonna do?



Didn't think that a guy talking about grabbing p**** would be the type that they would think would be best for them but I guess I was wrong [ like so many others ]


----------



## terry5

I can't believe it 
Guess the Americans are really pissed at having had their middle class decimated. Cut off their noses to spite their faces. Reminds me of another country where something similar happened

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## Nair saab

maximuswarrior said:


> Did he send you a memo?


They will make sure you get one soon ... Enjoy the barty bradher ...


----------



## SQ8

To put it mildly for Pakistanis; Trump is Asif Zardari with a bigger Ego.

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## T-72

Nilgiri said:


> No concession from Hillary tonite.
> 
> Tastes even better!


that bitch is curled up fetal position in huma's lap crying bucketloads of venomous witchy tears.

big league !

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## Desert Fox



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## LA se Karachi

Nilgiri said:


> I kinda knew it would sink even if trump lost (just probably more spaced out). Election jitters basically.




I wouldn't have thought that. But it's all a moot point because it worked out for you, I guess.

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## SarthakGanguly

Who did the NRIs vote for this time?


----------



## SQ8

Nair saab said:


> They will make sure you get one soon ... Enjoy the barty bradher ...





T-72 said:


> isolated incidents, nobody is going to start shooting up minorities just because Trump has won, despite their flaws, they are an advanced society, you made them sound like a bunch of sharia believing middle eastern jihadis.


Keep the religious bit out of it. Espeically if your understanding of Sharia is based off bigotry.

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## Mansoon

Oscar said:


> To put it mildly for Pakistanis; Trump is Asif Zardari with a bigger Ego.


Trump didn't become billionaire by looting public wealth


----------



## Clutch

T-72 said:


> isolated incidents, nobody is going to start shooting up minorities just because Trump has won, despite their flaws, they are an advanced society, you made them sound like a bunch of sharia believing middle eastern jihadis.


Actually shariah law middle east primarily exists in your head... but thats a separate topic... like i said... watch and see ... how America is further divided...

Trump is great for world peace... Hillary would have been a total disaster... American right wing is just as bad as the Isis type... the only difference is they can't get away with it... but they would happily be chopping brownie head and you tubing it... they can't... yet...


----------



## saiyan0321

Oscar said:


> To put it mildly for Pakistanis; Trump is Asif Zardari with a bigger Ego.



Asif zardari was a genius politician that could unite the entire opposition under his control while he destroyed the country. Don't think trump is at that level of political play and his destruction levels remain to be seen. :p .


----------



## ito

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL at *Modi* - Trump - Putin. You can take Modi out of the equation. *Putin* is the real winner and has been all along. Putin is about to become the strongest man in the world with Trump art the helm. No doubt about it.



Russian economy is half that off India's, so Modi has an edge. Moreover, Trump hates China, and US will depend more on India to take on China. I am seeing much closer relation between India and US than under Modi - Obama.

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## JanjaWeed

Nair saab said:


> They will make sure you get one soon ... Enjoy the barty bradher ...


NDTV must be saying to themselves right now..''Accha hota yeh ban rehne dete aaj ke liye''

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## ThinkLogically

WOW! Trump is going to win, my wish is coming true.

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## SQ8

Mansoon said:


> Trump didn't become billionaire by looting public wealth


Really?


----------



## Nair saab

Oscar said:


> Keep the religious bit out of it. Espeically if your understanding of Sharia is based off bigotry.


When and where did I bring in religion ...


----------



## GiannKall

Prepare for another 4-8 years of wars.All far right sites that create hatred against muslims are cheering because they want a man like Trump to bomb muslim countries to create hatred between muslims and christians. Its the agenda of far right


----------



## SarthakGanguly

JanjaWeed said:


> NDTV must be saying to themselves right now..''Accha hota yeh ban rehne dete aaj ke liye''


Who are the 'Indians' in the US voting for?


----------



## LA se Karachi

T-72 said:


> it's going to be entertaining, that is for sure. The Donald just became commander in chief of the worlds most powerful military, he will lead NATO, at the UN, chair G-5/10/20s, the beautiful Melania will help orphans and endangered species, it's all coming true.
> 
> @LA se Karachi

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## Śakra

SarthakGanguly said:


> Who did the NRIs vote for this time?



The Caterpillar.


----------



## Desert Fox



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## maximuswarrior

ito said:


> Russian economy is half that off India's, so Modi has an edge. Moreover, Trump hates China, and US will depend more on India to take on China. I am seeing much closer relation between India and US than under Modi - Obama.



Trump hates China? More than half of his stuff is made there. He doesn't hate China. We know how deep the relations between Trump and Russia run. They are more deep than India I can assure you. Putin definitely is the biggest winner here.

I'm all for more relationship between India and the US. *For Pakistan that is only a good thing because the burger elite in this country will be gobsmacked.*

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## Nilgiri

SarthakGanguly said:


> Who did the NRIs vote for this time?


 wait for the post poll data to come out. It will take time. Patience 

I have a feeling they overall picked hillary tho.

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## JanjaWeed

SarthakGanguly said:


> Who are the 'Indians' in the US voting for?


Mostly Clinton!


----------



## Desert Fox



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## SOHEIL

Hail trump


----------



## LA se Karachi

Me tonight:

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## Akasa

GiannKall said:


> Prepare for another 4-8 years of wars.All far right sites that create hatred against muslims are cheering because they want a man like Trump to bomb muslim countries to create hatred between muslims and christians. Its the agenda of far right



I hope you are aware that it was Clinton & Blumenthal who initially pushed for the Libyan intervention. The same could be said of the Syrian civil war.

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## Śakra

Night guys I'm going to sleep! Keep fighting that good fight.


----------



## Desert Fox



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## Nilgiri

JanjaWeed said:


> She must be cursing her luck right now..last time around it was Obama in primaries & this time Trump in the big one! Life is really a b!tch right now for the Clintons!



....and theres the small thing she will soon be prosecuted now.

She literally has bigger things on her mind now than losing this election. This was her last lifeline pretty much to live as a free person.

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## SarthakGanguly

Desert Fox said:


> View attachment 350505​


Calm Down.

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## powastick

All heil fuhrer Trump.


----------



## SirHatesALot

Dont expect anything new on foreign policy with President Trump.

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## Desert Fox

Damn, im beginning to feel bad for Hillary


----------



## Śakra

Desert Fox said:


> Damn, im beginning to feel bad for Hillary



Kyun? I'm too exited to sleep damn we won this one fellas

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## Saif al-Arab

GiannKall said:


> Prepare for another 4-8 years of wars.All far right sites that create hatred against muslims are cheering because they want a man like Trump to bomb muslim countries to create hatred between muslims and christians. Its the agenda of far right



Are you talking about the same Trump who was vehemently against the catastrophic Iraq war in 2003 which enabled the Mullah's to poison, destroy and plunder a once powerful adversary that they could not defeat, in Iraq? The same Trump who criticized Bush' policy in the Middle East. A policy that was largely followed by Obama and which would have been continued, even more so, by Lying Crooked Killary?

She should have been court-martialed ages ago anyway. Along with Obama, Bush, Cheney etc. The same people who were more anti-Trump than pro-their own party.
Trump will have a hard time keeping the warmongers and neocons in a tight collar. I fear that he will not succeed. But let us see. Our eggs are in the Chinese camp today so. However for the sake of the world I sure as hell hope that Trump will succeed.

Another good thing, liberals all across the world, including the Arab world, are crying currently.

As for internal US matters, who the hell cares that is a non-American citizen? I doubt that Muslims will suffer. In fact many Arab-Americans (3.5 million people) are pro-Trump.

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## Clutch

T-72 said:


> isolated incidents, nobody is going to start shooting up minorities just because Trump has won, despite their flaws, they are an advanced society, you made them sound like a bunch of sharia believing middle eastern jihadis.


Nazi gassing millions was probably as bad as the Isis maniacs.

But this thread is about trump.

I think economically Trump is a disaster... you don't make a country great by just wishing it. You need policies. He has none.

For world peace i think Trump is great. He would side with Russia and end the Isis, Khawarji, wahabbis nexus to an end. 

For American unity Trump is a walking disaster. He would disenfranchise a lot of the latino and Black's and left leaning whites 

For wallstreet cronies.. I.e. corrupt bankers ... he is a dream come true. They will run circles around the knuckle head.

For the American constitution (which i believe is the greatest political document ever) i think he is a disaster... especially when it comes to civil liberties. 

By the way to me i think the American constitution is the true Islamic Shariah Law... a shariah of love... and a jihaad of knowledge... just to make your head explode.


----------



## GiannKall

SinoSoldier said:


> I hope you are aware that it was Clinton & Blumenthal who initially pushed for the Libyan intervention. The same could be said of the Syrian civil war.



Basically it was the Europeans that wanted to do that and Obama followed. Breitbart, Pamella Geller, Jihadwatch etc etc all are far right sites that have the only task of creating hatred against muslims to justify eternal bombing by the US. Unfortunately they are quite popular and they succeed on misleading western public. They all support Trump and this means that his policies will be Bush-like


----------



## XenoEnsi-14

I found it interesting that the Young Turks 'Progressives'; who have been sleeping with and supporting the DNC aka Democratic party, knowing that they were corporate sellouts; started blaming the DNC for what it is. They are either incompetent or just plain hypocrites, if progressives like them didn't support them then this election would have came out differently.

Bernie Sanders was a sellout too, by joining the Democratic Party and then later supporting Hillary Clinton.

The Sheep reap what they sow...

Wolves my azz.


I love the smell of roasting sheep, Democrat or Republican, both smell the same to me.

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## ranjeet

PA counting went from 99% to 89% ... wtf just happened?


----------



## Śakra

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> I found it interesting that the Young Turks 'Progressives'; who have been sleeping with and supporting the DNC aka Democratic party, knowing that they were corporate sellouts; started blaming the DNC for what it is. They are either incompetent or just plain hypocrites, if progressives like them didn't support them then this election would have came out differently.
> 
> Bernie Sanders was a sellout too, by joining the Democratic Party and then later supporting Hillary Clinton.
> 
> The Sheep reap what they sow...
> 
> Wolves my azz.
> 
> 
> I love the smell of roasting sheep, Democrat or Republican, both smell the same to me.



At one point he said "F@ck". Real quality anchorman that guy is



ranjeet said:


> PA counting went from 99% to 89% ... wtf just happened?



Hills coming from the left field sigh voter fraud.

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## Nair saab

Desert Fox said:


> Damn, im beginning to feel bad for Hillary

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## SOHEIL

Trump is ethnically German !!!

& germans are originally aryan...

Hail trump


----------



## GiannKall

Saif al-Arab said:


> Are you talking about the same Trump who was vehemently against the catastrophic Iraq war in 2003, who criticized Bush' policy in the Middle East. A policy that was largely followed by Obama and which would have been continued, even more so, by Lying Crooked Killary?
> 
> She should have been court-martialed ages ago anyway. Along with Obama, Bush, Cheney etc. Trump will have a hard time keeping the warmongers and neocons in a tight collar. I fear that he will not succeed.



Trump supported the war on Iraq at first then he condemned it (just like all others did). He is heavily influenced by the zionist lobby(just like Bush did). His daughter married a jew and he has claimed that he will recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Its not a wonder why he has done all these anti-muslim comments. Obama was a weak president that he tried at first to draw back US from this story with the war on terror then Arab spring happened and he created a mess. But at least he was careful not to say things like "we are at war with muslims". With Trump expect more radical policies


----------



## KediKesenFare3

lol

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## powastick



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## Mansoon

GiannKall said:


> Prepare for another 4-8 years of wars.All far right sites that create hatred against muslims are cheering because they want a man like Trump to bomb muslim countries to create hatred between muslims and christians. Its the agenda of far right


What if Muslims bomb America first.


----------



## T-72

Oscar said:


> Keep the religious bit out of it. Espeically if your understanding of Sharia is based off bigotry.


ok, sorry about that.


----------



## Desert Fox

Saif al-Arab said:


> Another good thing, liberals all across the world, including the Arab world, are crying currently.


Death of Liberalism in the West is death of Liberalism everywhere. I'm basking in Liberal tears right now.



Saif al-Arab said:


> As for internal US matters, who the hell cares that is a non-American citizen? I doubt that Muslims will suffer. In fact many Arab-Americans (3.5 million people) are pro-Trump.


From my personal experience most Arabs, at least Arab women, are very leftist minded.

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## Saif al-Arab

SOHEIL said:


> Trump is ethnically German !!!
> 
> & germans are originally aryan...
> 
> Hail trump



Farsi delusion

There is nothing called an "Aryan ethnicity". Europeans are genetically and geographically closer to Arabs than Iranians. So are Turks. None of those two people are Indo-European speakers. Every single DNA test confirms this as well. However you likely have more to do with "Aryan" Sri Lankans indeed.

I have never seen Trump say a single positive thing about the Mullah's. In fact he has called the Iranian nuclear deal the worst deal in history numerous times.

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## KediKesenFare3

SOHEIL said:


> Trump is ethnically German !!!
> 
> & germans are originally aryan...
> 
> Hail trump


Why are you guys so happy? He is going to make the life very, very hard for Iran. There is no difference for him between Daesh and Iran in his own strange universe of foreign policy. Shias should be concerned about this outcome.

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## maximuswarrior

Mansoon said:


> What if Muslims bomb America first.



LOL That is an old broken record now. Just tell Trump tomind his business and not interfere in Muslim lands. We'll be more than glad.


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## LA se Karachi

Well, I guess you and the LA Times were right. @darmashkian

Good night.

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## T-72

Clutch said:


> Trump is great for world peace... Hillary would have been a total disaster... American right wing is just as bad as the Isis type... the only difference is they can't get away with it... but they would happily be chopping brownie head and you tubing it... they can't... yet...


we'll see, somehow I'm not too worried about a nazi takeover of the US


----------



## maximuswarrior

KediKesenFare said:


> Why are you guys so happy? He is going to make the life very, very hard for Iran. There is no difference for him between Daesh and Iran in his own strange universe of foreign policy. Shias should be concerned about this outcome.



The nuclear deal with Iran is going to the bin. Expect relations between US and Iran to deteriorate.


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## Desert Fox

powastick said:


> All heil fuhrer Trump.


lol imagine


----------



## saiyan0321

Wisconsin goes to trump and with that

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## Saif al-Arab

Desert Fox said:


> Death of Liberalism in the West is death of Liberalism everywhere. I'm basking in Liberal tears right now.
> 
> 
> From my personal experience most Arabs, at least Arab women, are very leftist minded.



You have to have in mind that around half of the 3.5 million Arab-Americans are Christians and most live on the East Coast or major US cities. Basically traditional Democratic areas. However I am quite sure that the average Arab-American in mostly Democratic states have a higher tendency to vote Republican simply due to shared values.

I mean @Falcon29 for instance, who is the only Arab-American that I know here, has supported Trump all the time and he told me that most Arabs in Michigan did the same.

This report confirms it.






In fact Hillary has harmed Muslims more than Trump could ever dream about.

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## ali_raza

he will take america to another direction.i feel he will change his policy when took oath


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## Mansoon

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL That is an old broken record now. Just tell Trump tomind his business and not interfere in Muslim lands. We'll be more than glad.


Barbary Muslim States attacked US Trade Ships back in 1800's. Old record?


----------



## ali_raza

Saif al-Arab said:


> You have to have in mind that around half of the 3.5 million Arab-Americans are Christians and most live on the East Coast or major US cities. Basically traditional Democratic areas. However I am quite sure that the average Arab-American in mostly Democratic states have a higher tendency to vote Republican simply due to shared values.
> 
> I mean @Falcon29 for instance, who is the only Arab-American that I know here, has supported Trump all the time and he told me that most Arabs in Michigan did the same.


trump will be dancing in saudi arabia like bush.u just wait

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## T-72

Clutch said:


> Nazi gassing millions was probably as bad as the Isis maniacs.
> 
> But this thread is about trump.
> 
> I think economically Trump is a disaster... you don't make a country great by just wishing it. You need policies. He has none.
> 
> For world peace i think Trump is great. He would side with Russia and end the Isis, Khawarji, wahabbis nexus to an end.
> 
> For American unity Trump is a walking disaster. He would disenfranchise a lot of the latino and Black's and left leaning whites
> 
> For wallstreet cronies.. I.e. corrupt bankers ... he is a dream come true. They will run circles around the knuckle head.
> 
> For the American constitution (which i believe is the greatest political document ever) i think he is a disaster... especially when it comes to civil liberties.
> 
> By the way to me i think the American constitution is the true Islamic Shariah Law... a shariah of love... and a jihaad of knowledge... just to make your head explode.


I agree with you on the world peace and isis bit, for the rest, they'll be fine.


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## ali_raza

saiyan0321 said:


> Wisconsin goes to trump and with that
> 
> View attachment 350508


viva la trump


----------



## Desert Fox



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## maximuswarrior

Saif al-Arab said:


> You have to have in mind that around half of the 3.5 million Arab-Americans are Christians and most live on the East Coast or major US cities. Basically traditional Democratic areas. However I am quite sure that the average Arab-American in mostly Democratic states have a higher tendency to vote Republican simply due to shared values.
> 
> I mean @Falcon29 for instance, who is the only Arab-American that I know here, has supported Trump all the time and he told me that most Arabs in Michigan did the same.
> 
> This report confirms it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In fact Hillary has harmed Muslims more than Trump could ever dream about.



The people who voted for Trump will get what they asked for. Be it Arabs, Latinos or Muslims.



Desert Fox said:


> View attachment 350509​



LOL Calm down man.


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## T-72

crooked Hillary called Trump and conceded over the phone ! 

bigly bigly !

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## Śakra

*TRUMP HAS JUST WON!!!!!!!! THE CATERPILLAR DID IT!!!!!!*

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## XenoEnsi-14

Saif al-Arab said:


> You have to have in mind that around half of the 3.5 million Arab-Americans are Christians and most live on the East Coast or major US cities. Basically traditional Democratic areas. However I am quite sure that the average Arab-American in mostly Democratic states have a higher tendency to vote Republican simply due to shared values.
> 
> I mean @Falcon29 for instance, who is the only Arab-American that I know here, has supported Trump all the time and he told me that most Arabs in Michigan did the same.
> 
> This report confirms it.



Democrats will still blame racists whites for this.

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## Mansoon

Its official. Trump is US president.


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## JanjaWeed

Done! 274 to Trump & he becomes 45th Prez !

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## SOHEIL

You have no idea why we Iranians are so happy 

Enjoy the show


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## Śakra

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> Democrats will still blame racists whites for this.



1/2 the people on this site already are

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## maximuswarrior

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> Democrats will still blame racists whites for this.



No doubt that Trump did it with his mainly white supporters. The minorities didn't mass vote for Trump. That is a fact.


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## Śakra

SOHEIL said:


> You have no idea why we Iranians are so happy
> 
> Enjoy the show



"We liked it better when we had sanctions anyways"- SOHEIL


@Desert Fox @Nilgiri @Saif al-Arab @C130 @all other zTrump supporters

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## T-72




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## maximuswarrior

Mansoon said:


> Barbary Muslim States attacked US Trade Ships back in 1800's. Old record?



1800 LMAO Bro, get some sleep now.


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## flamer84

Good morning folks,my ban just expired,on time to congratulate the US for electing Mr Trump as their 45th President.

A message for @AUz ,my brother who trolled the European section telling us how the US will never elect a right wing populist like us racist Europeans.This is for you man








@Vergennes

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## JanjaWeed

wow...it's 2nd shock in a year after Brexit! Crazy...

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## maximuswarrior

Mansoon said:


> Its official. Trump is US president.



Congrats. Now let's gear up for the consequences.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Monkey year with the bless from the Monkey King!

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## maximuswarrior

Donald Trump will become the 45th US president after a stunning victory over Democrat Hillary Clinton, the Associated Press news agency reports.

The Republican nominee's projected victory came down to a handful of key swing states, despite months of polling that favoured Mrs Clinton.

The battlegrounds of Florida, Ohio and North Carolina cleared the way for his Brexit-style upset.

*Global markets plummeted, with the Dow set to open 800 points down.*

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37920175


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## XenoEnsi-14

maximuswarrior said:


> That is a fact.


Keep saying that, it just might come true. 

By not voting they silently support the outcome.


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## T-72

*Tremendous !*

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## GiannKall

This will be a typical white old hawkish republican government of the Bush-type. Donald Trump 70, Mike Pence 58, Newt Gingrich 73, Rudy Giuliani 72 they all going to take important positions in the government


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## maximuswarrior

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Monkey year with the bless from the Monkey King!
> 
> View attachment 350511



LOL

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## Madali

Congratulations to Americans. Trump's path to victory was the true Rocky story. They made fun of him from day 1 and he kicked everyone's ***.

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## ChineseTiger1986

maximuswarrior said:


> Donald Trump will become the 45th US president after a stunning victory over Democrat Hillary Clinton, the Associated Press news agency reports.
> 
> The Republican nominee's projected victory came down to a handful of key swing states, despite months of polling that favoured Mrs Clinton.
> 
> The battlegrounds of Florida, Ohio and North Carolina cleared the way for his Brexit-style upset.
> 
> *Global markets plummeted, with the Dow set to open 800 points down.*
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37920175



Dow rally was fake, let's burst the bubble.


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## SQ8

Trump's speech.. GOOD so far

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## XenoEnsi-14

SOHEIL said:


> You have no idea why we Iranians are so happy


Because you all have masochistic tendencies when the Big Bad US pulls out the whip?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Monkey King and Michael Moore were the best predictors of the year, by far beating any other polls and magical animals.

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## LA se Karachi

maximuswarrior said:


> No doubt that Trump did it with his mainly white supporters. The minorities didn't mass vote for Trump. That is a fact.




Most of Trump's supporters were not racist.
*
Whites have also voted for all other Republican Presidential candidates, even when they lost. And Obama outperformed Hillary among them in 2008 and 2012. Minorities always vote for the Democratic candidate, no matter who is running against them.*

These are also facts. Try to let them sink in.



XenoEnsi-14 said:


> Democrats will still blame racists whites for this.




^You sound like him now.

Most Democrats won't. The snake-oil salesman idea is the dominant narrative coming from them. But comments like yours certainly don't help.


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## GiannKall

Oscar said:


> Trump's speech.. GOOD so far



Naaaah. Typical

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## KAL-EL

Oscar said:


> Trump's speech.. GOOD so far



Dare I say... Very presidential sounding. so far..

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## flamer84

Oscar said:


> Trump's speech.. GOOD so far




Not surprising to be honest.No jail for Hillary,walls or banns in it.


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## Curious_Guy

a bit surprised ...


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## Nair saab

White Americans just learned the game and trolled leftists by consistently saying they wont vote for Trump in poll predictions... 


You Rock Americans...

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## XenoEnsi-14

LA se Karachi said:


> Most Democrats won't. The snake-oil salesman idea is the dominant narrative coming from them. But comments like yours certainly don't help.


I didn't say all or most, just that they will most likely be a democrat.


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## maximuswarrior

LA se Karachi said:


> Most of Trump's supporters were not racist.
> *
> Whites have also voted for all other Republican Presidential candidates, even when they lost. And Obama outperformed Hillary among them in 2008 and 2012. Minorities typically vote for the Democratic candidate, no matter who is running against them.*
> 
> These are also facts. Try to let them sink in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^You sound like him now.
> 
> Most Democrats won't. The snake-oil salesman idea is the dominant narrative coming from them. But comments like yours certainly don't help.



It doesn't matter what you say. The whole world has heard what Trump has said about Muslims, Mexicans etc. during the election campaign. People who voted Trump also voted for these views. There is no way round it.

*Now, if trump is half the man he says he is, he will deliver on his promises.*


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## JanjaWeed

For the first time there no joy or disappointment in a electoral resilt of a campaign I followed keenly! wow..weird & easy feeling!


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## Nike

Trump won majority support from latinos hence he can bought votes from Florida

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## Saif al-Arab

GiannKall said:


> Trump supported the war on Iraq at first then he condemned it (just like all others did). He is heavily influenced by the zionist lobby(just like Bush did). His daughter married a jew and he has claimed that he will recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Its not a wonder why he has done all these anti-muslim comments. Obama was a weak president that he tried at first to draw back US from this story with the war on terror then Arab spring happened and he created a mess. But at least he was careful not to say things like "we are at war with muslims". With Trump expect more radical policies



All this supposed anti-Muslim rhetoric (which is in fact misunderstood) is a election tactic to appeal to the average White Republican voter in the Bible Belt, Midwest etc. whose knowledge about foreign policy is as big as the Grand Mufti of KSA's knowledge of French wines. That type of voter sees conflicts and terrorist attacks in the Muslim world and occasionally in the West and naturally is scared/worried. I have never seen Trump being against the average Muslim. If he was such an anti-Muslim he would not have done business with Muslims or have had investments in Muslim countries or travelled to Muslim countries. Mostly the GCC but other areas too.

Anyway I could care less if he loves, hates, dislikes or is indifferent to Muslims. What I care about is him not pursuing a similar disastrous policy in the MENA region as Bush Jr., Obama and Clinton did. I doubt this as he has put a lot of emphasis on criticizing such failed policies so it would be an own goal to follow it unless the powers behind him are simply too strong to combat.

Obama/Clinton are the foremost reason for the chaos to begin with. They are also responsible for prolonging the Syrian war by their indifference. You must be extremely naive to think that Obama was pro-anything in Syria. In fact I believe that every regional power and world power is perfectly fine with sacrificing Syria to accomplish their own agendas which vary.

Anyway I do not believe that it can be any worse than under Obama/Clinton or Bush Jr.

Trump has his faults like everyone but the reason why he was elected to begin with was due to his opposition to the establishment. Now copying them after becoming the president would be a gigantic own goal.

As for Israel, US would support them regardless of who would have been elected. Even if an Muslim Arab-American of Palestinian origin was elected as the president.

Of course I could very likely be wrong but I doubt so.

Anyway Trump was not elected by the American voter due to those reasons but many others which have more to do with local issues. Many times more.

And most importantly, president or not, he is just the figurehead. Behind him is the biggest political machinery on the planet. They make the choices for him. It is not like in the MENA/China etc. were most leaders can mostly decide on their own and decide/sack all officials at will without any or little accountability from the people. Which is why a well-run dictatorship is always better than a badly run democracy.

Anyway most importantly us conservatives/liberal conservatives will always prefer a leader in the mold of Trump rather than liberal socialists like Hillary, globalists and neocons. Besides Trump is good entertainment and I like the fact that a showman could become the president and beat people who have been politicians their entire adult lives almost. It is a big middle finger to the liberal/socialist establishment in the West and everywhere else where so-called "progressives" are trying to poison others with their moronic ideas.

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## Curious_Guy

Now what is left is to see were his views just for election or he firmly believes in them and materialize .....if he does arent we screwed ?


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## maximuswarrior

Oscar said:


> Trump's speech.. GOOD so far



Yeah, he has started looking more presidential. You think he can hold that feeling for another hour?


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## powastick

US media is a joke, fake pre-polls, demonizing trump.

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## LA se Karachi

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> I didn't say all or most, just that they will most likely be a democrat.




Fine. There won't be too many is what I meant. There are also some Trump supporters who were primarily motivated by xenophobia and race. That doesn't mean most of them were. Same goes for Democrats saying what happened tonight was because of immigration and ethnicity. Most don't think that. That was my only point.

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## maximuswarrior

LA se Karachi said:


> There won't be too many is what I meant. There are also a some Trump supporters who were primarily motivated by xenophobia and race. That doesn't mean most of them were. Same goes for Democrats saying what happened tonight was because of immigration and ethnicity. Most don't think that. That was my only point.



Unfortunately, Trump himself has said things which tell us a different story. *Of course, not all Trump supporters are racist, but most racists are Trump supporters.*


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## LA se Karachi

maximuswarrior said:


> *Of course, not all Trump supporters are racist, but most racists are Trump supporters.*




Some were, yes. But most weren't. That's the point.



maximuswarrior said:


> It doesn't matter what you say. The whole world has heard what Trump has said about Muslims, Mexicans etc. during the election campaign. People who voted Trump also voted for these views. There is no way round it.
> 
> *Now, if trump is half the man he says he is, he will deliver on his promises.*




No, you don't get it. He's a terrible guy who said terrible things, yes. But he said a lot of other things too that had nothing to do with immigration/race/religion. Many of his voters don't even like him.

Most of what he talked about had nothing to do with these issues. That's simply what the media covered most because it was the most outrageous and alarming. That's not why most people voted for him. His "crooked Hillary"/anti-establishment attacks were far more effective. Go look at some exit polling data. There's no way around it.


----------



## Musafir117

Well if American can chose a play boy as president and Indian an i....t what's wrong with our IK @Zibago


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## GiannKall

We live in a reactionary era were the people are fed up with globalization and they vote strong populist leaders who are anti-globalists whether its Trump, or Duterte, or Erdogan, or Modi etc

Bty i dont trust the physical condition of Trump. He was in far better shape 10-20 years ago.


----------



## Saif al-Arab

@XenoEnsi-14

It seems that the Cuban-Americans (great people overall) in Florida did not buy into the supposed anti-Latin comments of Trump. Similar to how many Arab-Americans and Muslim-Americans did not buy into his supposed anti-Muslim rhetoric. It seems that the average voter can figure out who is the more genuine candidate.

@KAL-EL how do you see this election and the immediate future? Do you buy the nation of Trump being a dividing figure rather than a unifying one? I think that a lot of Americans will be positively surprised in this regard. Pence also seems like a very capable politician. Much better than that Kaine guy.



GiannKall said:


> We live in a reactionary era were the people are fed up with globalization and they vote strong populist leaders who are anti-globalists whether its Trump, or Duterte, or Erdogan, or Modi etc
> 
> Bty i dont trust the physical condition of Trump. He was in far better shape 10-20 years ago.



Which is a good thing as that globalist nonsense has failed. Let countries trade with each other all they want to, let people visit and interact all they want to, but internal matters should be internal matters. We don't need Clinton's or other "Saints" telling the entire world how to live, act, what to think, do etc. in the name of "democracy" or whatever label is convenient to mention. Or a unified culture. With all due respect. Liberals of today do not even follow traditional liberalism anymore but some allen socialistic/communistic blend of some sorts.

Besides in a world were sane traditional and conservative values are under attack and ridicule we, people who still value many of those great values, must support people who support them as well and not those who want to undermine them at every opportunity.

Therefore Trump as the only sane choice IMO.

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## maximuswarrior

LA se Karachi said:


> Some were, yes. But most weren't. That's the point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don't get it. He's a terrible guy who said terrible things, yes. But he said a lot of other things too that had nothing to do with immigration/race/religion. Many of his voters don't even like him.
> 
> Most of what he talked about had nothing to do with these issues. That's simply what the media covered most because it was the most outrageous and alarming. That's not why most people voted for him. His "crooked Hillary"/anti-establishment attacks were far more effective. Go look at some exit polling data. There's no way around it.



I don't buy that for one moment. We have just scratched the surface and no doubt the US elections have revealed something deeply disturbing. Trump's statements didn't fall from the sky. He uttered those ugly words because he knew that he had to cater the views of his voter base. This ugly sentiment has been brewing for years now. With Trump it has now got a voice and a face. That cannot be taken lightly at all. I'm sorry, but with Trump al lot of things have changed now. Also, the US perception will not remain the same.


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## Hassan Guy

YEAASSSSS!!!!! TRUMP!!!!

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## heisenberg

anon45 said:


> I really hope I'm wrong, he hasn't given any indication though.


He is a smart businessman and no businessman ha


maximuswarrior said:


> LOL He promised. Is he going to break his promise?


May be Trump supporters are more mature than you think

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## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> *Of course, not all Trump supporters are racist, but most racists are Trump supporters.*


you wouldn't like to hear a very similar analogy about terrorists, would you ?


----------



## maximuswarrior

heisenberg said:


> He is a smart businessman and no businessman ha
> 
> May be Trump supporters are more mature than you think



Mature? What has maturity got to do with all of this? Why did trump make the false promise in the first place? You are backtracking now. *I expect trump to fulfill the promises he made.*

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## Akasa

GiannKall said:


> Basically it was the Europeans that wanted to do that and Obama followed. Breitbart, Pamella Geller, Jihadwatch etc etc all are far right sites that have the only task of creating hatred against muslims to justify eternal bombing by the US. Unfortunately they are quite popular and they succeed on misleading western public. They all support Trump and this means that his policies will be Bush-like



France (the nation that initiated the anti-Ghaddafi campaign) has little, if any, bearing on US internal politics. To put things in the right shoe, do recall that it was President Obama who called for cruise missile strikes into Libya on top of Hillary's lobbying; right-wing newspapers had little to do with the decision to go to war.

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## Clutch

SOHEIL said:


> You have no idea why we Iranians are so happy
> 
> Enjoy the show


Trump will tear the Iran deal apart... fyi


----------



## maximuswarrior

SinoSoldier said:


> France (the nation that initiated the anti-Ghaddafi campaign) has little, if any, bearing on US internal politics. To put things in the right shoe, do recall that it was President Obama who called for cruise missile strikes into Libya on top of Hillary's lobbying; right-wing newspapers had little to do with the decision to go to war.



The right-wing has already caused enough damage by going into Iraq if you recall. Of course, the right-wing is going to remain silent now after causing the sh!t storm in the first place. In all fairness, Obama made it worse when he was thinking that he was doing a splendid job. However, Obama simply inherited the mess from the Republicans.

I hope Trump delivers on his promise by making America great first instead of meddling in other nations. That will be one heck of a good thing for the world.


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## Clutch

Oscar said:


> Trump's speech.. GOOD so far


Nobody goes nuts on their inaugural speech. Its written by ghost writers for the teleprompter.


----------



## T-72

Clutch said:


> Trump will tear the Iran deal apart... fyi


he's a smart man, first he'll leverage them to fight isis, you watch. 

if there are any big losers tonight, it is the so called Syrian rebels and the countries that back those terrorists.

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## heisenberg

maximuswarrior said:


> Mature? What has maturity got to do with all of this? Why did trump make the false promise in the first place? You are backtracking now. *I expect trump to fulfill the promises he made.*


Only foolish can believe in all the promises made by a politician..when I voted for modi I didn't vote him because he is going to solve all the india problems or he will fulfill even 10 percent of his promises but I voted for him because he was the best alternative at that time so is Trump for america far better than clinton


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## lcloo

Arrogant mad man trashed manipulating female liar. Meanwhile Canadian immigration website is choked with inquiries by Americans seeking immigration.

And stock markets around the world are crashing down, down and down.

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## GiannKall

Saif al-Arab said:


> Which is a good thing as that globalist nonsense has failed. Let countries trade with each other all they want to but internal matters should be internal matters. We don't need Clinton's or other "Saints" telling the entire world how to live, act, what to think, do etc. in the name of "democracy" or whatever label is convenient to mention. With all due respect. Liberals of today do not even follow traditional liberalism anymore but some allen socialistic/communistic blend.



Globalization will prevail in the end, its inevitable. Its just the fact that history hasnt got a linear path(but goes 5 steps forward and 3 backwards in order to move forward again). The French revolution occured but some years later monarchy was restored. Then the monarchy was overthrown only to be restored again etc etc. Today France doesnt have a monarchy. The same will happen with globalization. After some ups and down it will prevail


----------



## Clutch

Saif al-Arab said:


> All this supposed anti-Muslim rhetoric (which is in fact misunderstood) is a election tactic to appeal to the average White Republican voter in the Bible Belt, Midwest etc. whose knowledge about foreign policy is as big as the Grand Mufti of KSA's knowledge of French wines. That type of voter sees conflicts and terrorist attacks in the Muslim world and occasionally in the West and naturally is scared/worried. I have never seen Trump being against the average Muslim. If he was such an anti-Muslim he would not have done business with Muslims or have had investments in Muslim countries or travelled to Muslim countries. Mostly the GCC but other areas too.
> 
> Anyway I could care less if he loves, hates, dislikes or is indifferent to Muslims. What I care about is him not pursuing a similar disastrous policy in the MENA region as Bush Jr., Obama and Clinton did. I doubt this as he has put a lot of emphasis on criticizing such failed policies so it would be an own goal to follow it unless the powers behind him are simply too strong to combat.
> 
> Obama/Clinton are the foremost reason for the chaos to begin with. They are also responsible for prolonging the Syrian war by their indifference. You must be extremely naive to think that Obama was pro-anything in Syria. In fact I believe that every regional power and world power is perfectly fine with sacrificing Syria to accomplish their own agendas which vary.
> 
> Anyway I do not believe that it can be any worse than under Obama/Clinton or Bush Jr.
> 
> Trump has his faults like everyone but the reason why he was elected to begin with was due to his opposition to the establishment. Now copying them after becoming the president would be a gigantic own goal.
> 
> As for Israel, US would support them regardless of who would have been elected. Even if an Muslim Arab-American of Palestinian origin was elected as the president.
> 
> Of course I could very likely be wrong but I doubt so.
> 
> Anyway Trump was not elected by the American voter due to those reasons but many others which have more to do with local issues. Many times more.
> 
> And most importantly, president or not, he is just the figurehead. Behind him is the biggest political machinery on the planet. They make the choices for him. It is not like in the MENA/China etc. were most leaders can mostly decide on their own and decide/sack all officials at will without any or little accountability from the people. Which is why a well-run dictatorship is always better than a badly run democracy.
> 
> Anyway most importantly us conservatives/liberal conservatives will always prefer a leader in the mold of Trump rather than liberal socialists like Hillary, globalists and neocons. Besides Trump is good entertainment and I like the fact that a showman could become the president and beat people who have been politicians their entire adult lives almost. It is a big middle finger to the liberal/socialist establishment in the West and everywhere else where so-called "progressives" are trying to poison others with their moronic ideas.


He is putting Rudy Giuliani as his chief Justice... enough said.


----------



## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> he's a smart man, first he'll leverage them to fight isis, you watch.
> 
> if there are any big losers tonight, it is the so called Syrian rebels and the countries that back those terrorists.



Can you name those countries? I'm interested.



heisenberg said:


> Only foolish can believe in all the promises made by a politician..when I voted for modi I didn't vote him because he is going to solve all the india problems or he will fulfill even 10 percent of his promises but I voted for him because he was the best alternative at that time so is Trump for america far better than clinton



That is BS and you know it. The Muslim ban and Mexican wall is something that Trump has made his election motto. He will have to deliver. No ifs and buts.


----------



## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> Can you name those countries? I'm interested.


Saudia and Turkey, who he has repeatedly called out for their horrible cultural practices and apparent support for ISIS.

He'll reign them in and deal directly with Russia, who are the real major power in the region to deal with the terrorism issue.


----------



## Clutch

T-72 said:


> he's a smart man, first he'll leverage them to fight isis, you watch.
> 
> if there are any big losers tonight, it is the so called Syrian rebels and the countries that back those terrorists.


Not sure about the smart part... he will try to prove he is a better negotiator... hence the tear apart... agree with the Isis part. Put he will align with the Russians while taking iran out of the nexus. 

Ultimately Trump will hopefully get the world rid of Isis and al Qaeeda...


----------



## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> Saudia and Turkey, who he has repeatedly called out for their horrible cultural practices and apparent support for ISIS.
> 
> He'll reign them in and deal directly with Russia, who are the real major power in the region to deal with the terrorism issue.



Interesting times ahead. Turkey and Saudi don't have a repulsive culture.

This is my prediction. Trump is going to worsen the conflict and ISIS and AQ will flourish under his rule. Simply because collateral damage will create only more resentment and fuel more vengeance. Trump is going to outsource the ISIS war to Russia.


----------



## Clutch

T-72 said:


> Saudia and Turkey, who he has repeatedly called out for their horrible cultural practices and apparent support for ISIS.
> 
> He'll reign them in and deal directly with Russia, who are the real major power in the region to deal with the terrorism issue.


Turkey's repulsive culture?... pretty sure it's more progressive than most of Christian Africa, Christian South America, etc.


----------



## Saif al-Arab

GiannKall said:


> Globalization will prevail in the end, its inevitable. Its just the fact that history hasnt got a linear path(but goes 5 steps forward and 3 backwards in order to move forward again). The French revolution occured but some years later monarchy was restored. Then the monarchy was overthrown only to be restored again etc etc. Today France doesnt have a monarchy. The same will happen with globalization. After some ups and down it will prevail



Globalization as in a unified culture everywhere? I highly doubt that as this would be the end of nation states as we know them. People are too tribal by nature to ever accept such a thing.

Globalization as in greater trade, travel, spread of technology etc. However to erase the 1000's upon 1000's of cultures, traditions, values etc. that exist all across the world for a unified culture sounds to me like not only a utopia but also a very boring and unpleasant place to be.

In the 1870's under President McMahon (after Napoleon III was forced to abdicate in 1870 and France became a Republic again) France was a few votes from reintroducing a constituional monarchy which likely would have lasted to this very day. So small details decide history and events that follow.



T-72 said:


> Saudia and Turkey, who he has repeatedly called out for their horrible cultural practices and apparent support for ISIS.
> 
> He'll reign them in and deal directly with Russia, who are the real major power in the region to deal with the terrorism issue.



Try harder, Indian troll. KSA and the US are on the exact same page in Syria. Wanting the removal of Al-Assad and FSA-like minded people as transitional figures. Trump too wants the removal of the Al-Assad regime. As for ISIS no regime supports it directly. In any way Al-Assad is the biggest reason for their rise and the same Al-Assad was the biggest supporter of Al-Qaeda in Iraq which later turned to ISIS and turned against him. It's called karma.






And you must be an idiot to believe that KSA is supporting MB-Islamists in Syria. If not for KSA Egypt would be ruled by the MB today. The same MB that received support from the US. Just like KSA is against Houthi Shia Islamists in Yemen and Shia Islamists in Lebanon (Hezbollah). The only place where KSA has supported Islamists outside of its borders were in Afghanistan 30 years ago when the US and the USSR had a proxy war which in hindsight was a mistake as Afghanistan and whatever happens in that failed country has nothing to do with KSA.

Also if KSA really wanted Al-Assad gone he would have been gone ages ago. I believe that the government ,rightly, wanted to get rid of its most hardcore extremists which has mostly succeeded as most have left. A wise policy.


----------



## Clutch

T-72 said:


> Saudia and Turkey, who he has repeatedly called out for their horrible cultural practices and apparent support for ISIS.
> 
> He'll reign them in and deal directly with Russia, who are the real major power in the region to deal with the terrorism issue.


Pretty sure CIA was supporting Isis... Clinton and company


----------



## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> That is BS and you know it. The Muslim ban and Mexican wall is something Trump has made his election motto. He will have to delivers. No ifs and buts.


there will be no muslim ban, he's going to suspend the refugee program, deport violent criminal illegals and probably introduce a slew of greater screening measures for people from terrorist overrun areas like some places in the middle east etc. I expect he will build the wall as well and introduce greater security measures along their southern border. 

nothing too sinister or evil.

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## Clutch

T-72 said:


> he's a smart man, first he'll leverage them to fight isis, you watch.
> 
> if there are any big losers tonight, it is the so called Syrian rebels and the countries that back those terrorists.


BTW... usa is the main backer of the "rebels" ... Saudis don't even Farther without getting big brothers permission... i.e. usa...


----------



## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> there will be no muslim ban, he's going to suspend the refugee program, deport violent criminal illegals and probably introduce a slew of greater screening measures for people from terrorist overrun areas like some places in the middle east etc. I expect he will build the wall as well and introduce greater security measures along their southern border.
> 
> nothing too sinister or evil.



In other words, he will be breaking his promise. He clearly said that he was going to ban Muslims until he had figured out what the hell was going on. Mexico was going to pay for the wall. Women were going to be punished for abortion etc. A whole list of promises which everyone expects to be fulfilled.


----------



## Clutch

T-72 said:


> there will be no muslim ban, he's going to suspend the refugee program, deport violent criminal illegals and probably introduce a slew of greater screening measures for people from terrorist overrun areas like some places in the middle east etc. I expect he will build the wall as well and introduce greater security measures along their southern border.
> 
> nothing too sinister or evil.



I hope to God he bans moslems! That would be the best thing ever!

Trump has to follow up on that.


----------



## T-72

Clutch said:


> Pretty sure CIA was supporting Isis... Clinton and company


CIA, FBI, DOJ, NSA, senate foreign relations committees.. there are going to be a lot of new appointments as he drains the swamp.


----------



## LA se Karachi

maximuswarrior said:


> I don't buy that for one moment.




I'm just trying to make a simple point: most of his supporters are not racist (though some undoubtedly are). I don't care if you "buy" it or not. Exit polling data, and pre-election polling data bear this out.

Most of the 55 million+ Americans who voted for him are not racist. That's far too many people. They had two bad choices this election. I know some Trump supporters, and they are not racist. They live alongside minorities everywhere. So unless you have some polling data showing most of them hold racist views, your words mean nothing.



Saif al-Arab said:


> Similar to how many Arab-Americans and Muslim-Americans did not buy into his supposed anti-Muslim rhetoric.




Not true. Most Arab-Americans and Muslim-Americans did not vote for Trump. When more exit polling is released, I will show it to you. Both groups are very Democratic (especially Muslim-Americans) by both party affiliation and exit polling data from past elections.


----------



## T-72

Clutch said:


> BTW... usa is the main backer of the "rebels" ... Saudis don't even Farther without getting big brothers permission... i.e. usa...


I know, and it's going to stop.


----------



## Clutch

T-72 said:


> CIA, FBI, DOJ, NSA, senate foreign relations committees.. there are going to be a lot of new appointments as he drains the swamp.



Conveniently you name acronyms when it comes to your countries involvement with ISIS... but with Turkey and Saudi you name the entire nation/culture... think about it.

Pretty sure American democracy is also flawed...


----------



## GiannKall

T-72 said:


> Saudia and Turkey, who he has repeatedly called out for their horrible cultural practices and apparent support for ISIS.
> 
> He'll reign them in and deal directly with Russia, who are the real major power in the region to deal with the terrorism issue.



A Russia-Turkey cooperation is more probable than a Russian-American cooperation


----------



## GiannKall

Saif al-Arab said:


> Globalization as in a unified culture everywhere? I highly doubt that as this would be the end of nation states as we know them. People are too tribal by nature to ever accept such a thing.
> 
> Globalization as in greater trade, travel, spread of technology etc. However to erase the 1000's upon 1000's of cultures, traditions, values etc. that exist all across the world for a unified culture sounds to me like not only a utopia but also a very boring and unpleasant place to be.
> 
> In the 1870's under President McMahon (after Napoleon III was forced to abdicate in 1870 and France became a Republic again) France was a few votes from reintroducing a constituional monarchy which likely would have lasted to this very day. So small details decide history and events that follow.



This will take centuries but in the end it will occur. And it has started since the 19th century at least.


----------



## Clutch

GiannKall said:


> This will take centuries but in the end it will occur. And it has started since the 19th century at least.


Trumps win is a backlash against Globalization... people have had enough!


----------



## Akasa

maximuswarrior said:


> The right-wing has already caused enough damage by going into Iraq if you recall. Of course, the right-wing is going to remain silent now after causing the sh!t storm in the first place. In all fairness, Obama made it worse when he was thinking that he was doing a splendid job. However, Obama simply inherited the mess from the Republicans.
> 
> I hope Trump delivers on his promise by making America great first instead of meddling in other nations. That will be one heck of a good thing for the world.



The Libya crisis largely emanated from the Arab Spring, which may or may not had ties to *but was not the direct precipitant of* the Iraq invasion. Of course, Iraq War was a terrible mistake in hindsight, but both Democrats and Republicans supported the initial invasion that was largely rationalized by poor intelligence and/or outright myths.


----------



## Saif al-Arab

LA se Karachi said:


> Not true. Most Arab-Americans and Muslim-Americans did not vote for Trump. When more exit polling is released, I will show it to you. Both groups are very Democratic (especially Muslim-Americans) by both party affiliation and exit polling data from past elections.



You have to have in mind that around half of the 3.5 million Arab-Americans are Christians and most live on the East Coast or major US cities. Even in Texas major cities such as Austin are majority-democratic which is natural as most city-dwellers tend to be less conservative than people living on the countryside. Basically traditional Democratic areas. However I am quite sure that the average Arab-American in mostly Democratic states have a higher tendency to vote Republican simply due to shared values.

I mean @Falcon29 for instance, who is the only Arab-American that I know here, has supported Trump all the time and he told me that most Arabs in Michigan did the same.

This report confirms it.






Anyway apparently ALL minorities voted for Hillary in their majority however if media are to be believed ZERO Muslims voted for Trump which is a big lie.

Almost all of my Muslim American friends voted for Trump.



GiannKall said:


> This will take centuries but in the end it will occur. And it has started since the 19th century at least.



That is your opinion. People said the same when other cultures were at the forefront in the world. What is "Western culture" today has only been dominating for at most 3-4 centuries. Before this many other cultures dominated for longer, mostly non-European. Yes, technology has enabled dominating cultures to become truly global (look at the spread of English which coincided with the Industrial Revolution) but all cultures will eventually die out or evolve. For a culture to be truly global and uniform all other cultures must die out or become completely irrelevant. I doubt that this will occur.

Today most people speak English and theoretically all other languages could be abolished on the long run but that is not happening at all and won't either. Neither this "global culture" that globalists push for everywhere.

How did communism evolve again? 120 years ago it was just a question before the masses would adopt it everywhere and the world would become one qual paradise etc.


----------



## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> He will breaking his promise. He clearly said that he was going to ban Muslims until he had figured out what the hell was going on. Mexico was going to pay for the wall. Women were going to be punished for abortion etc.


the muslim ban came 2 days after the san bernadino isis linked terrorist attack, months before the primaries while speaking to a very right wing audience, it was calculated to manipulate the media to do nothing but talk about him 24/7. 

He's a master media manipulator, I don't think he hates muslims or any other group of people, he just doesn't want the refugee hoards to get to the US, which is a fair position, Germany, Sweden etc are having major problems with those guys.


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## Desert Fox

To celebrate our great victory this evening, a great song to remind us of the great tasks that lay ahead and to motivate us to carry on the torch of hope, just as many a patriots have done in the generations long gone:





@T-72 @C130 @XenoEnsi-14 @anon45 @Falcon29
@Oscar @gambit @Nilgiri @LA se Karachi (apologize if i've left out any other American members)​

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## maximuswarrior

LA se Karachi said:


> I'm just trying to make a simple point: most of his supporters are not racist (though some undoubtedly are). I don't care if you "buy" it or not. Exit polling data, and pre-election polling data bear this out.
> 
> Most of the 55 million+ Americans who voted for him are not racist. That's far too many people. They had two bad choices this election. I know some Trump supporters, and they are not racist. They live alongside minorities everywhere. So unless you have some polling data showing most of them hold racist views, your words mean nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. Most Arab-Americans and Muslim-Americans did not vote for Trump. When more exit polling is released, I will show it to you. Both groups are very Democratic (especially Muslim-Americans) by both party affiliation and exit polling data from past elections.



Like I said, Trump has already done the damage. His ugly statements are there for everyone to see. Your denial isn't going to change that fact. No doubt that the Trump voters have elected him based on these racist and xenophobic views. Once you elect a leader you elect him based on his views. It is not pick and choose as you are trying to argue. Just because you know a handful of Trump supporters doesn't mean you know them all.


----------



## Zibago

Musafir117 said:


> Well if American can chose a play boy as president and Indian an i....t what's wrong with our IK @Zibago


Nothing i support IK

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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> To celebrate our great victory this evening, a great song to remind us of the great tasks that lay ahead and to motivate us to carry on the torch of hope, just as many a patriots have done in the generations long gone:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @T-72 @C130 @XenoEnsi-14 @anon45 @Falcon29
> @Oscar @gambit @Nilgiri​


good luck, 'murricans, you guys made the right choice both for yourself and for all of humanity tonight. What an amazing historic day this is. 

President Trump

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## ito

So it is President Trump


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## KAL-EL

Desert Fox said:


> To celebrate our great victory this evening, a great song to remind us of the great tasks that lay ahead and to motivate us to carry on the torch of hope, just as many a patriots have done in the generations long gone:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @T-72 @C130 @XenoEnsi-14 @anon45 @Falcon29
> @Oscar @gambit @Nilgiri @LA se Karachi (*apologize if i've left out any other American members*)​



Apology accepted

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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> the muslim ban came 2 days after the san bernadino isis linked terrorist attack, months before the primaries while speaking to a very right wing audience, it was calculated to manipulate the media to do nothing but talk about him 24/7.
> 
> He's a master media manipulator, I don't think he hates muslims or any other group of people, he just doesn't want the refugee hoards to get to the US, which is a fair position, Germany, Sweden etc are having major problems with those guys.



Not good enough. He has clearly stated that Muslims are going to banned from visiting the US. This ban would be implemented in the early days of his presidency. Every voter expects him to go through with his plan. It is a lame excuse on your part to play down Trump's pledges. If he doesn't follow through, he will be considered nothing, but a lying politician.


----------



## C130



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## Desert Fox

KAL-EL said:


> Apology accepted


Damn, my bad bro!! Here's one just for you

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## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> In other words, he will be breaking his promise. He clearly said that he was going to ban Muslims until he had figured out what the hell was going on. Mexico was going to pay for the wall. Women were going to be punished for abortion etc. A whole list of promises which everyone expects to be fulfilled.


honestly, I could care less about his immigration and wall policies. 

all I want is for him to come good on his foreign policy in Syria and the mena region in general



Clutch said:


> Turkey's repulsive culture?... pretty sure it's more progressive than most of Christian Africa, Christian South America, etc.


Saudi, not Turkey

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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> honestly, I could care less about his immigration and wall policies.
> 
> all I want is for him to come good on his foreign policy in Syria and the mena region in general
> 
> 
> Saudi, not Turkey



LOL He can't even fulfill on ISIS. You'll see. Just wait. What is this orange head going to do that Obama and Hillary already haven't tried? LMAO Everything is going to backfire and ISIS is going to get stronger. Assad is going to remain. The Americans don't have any solutions for ISIS because they created it in the first place. Remember, your own guy said this.

The Middle East is going to show the US a middle finger if the Americans don't tow the Saudi line. You'll see.


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## T-72

Clutch said:


> Not sure about the smart part... he will try to prove he is a better negotiator... hence the tear apart... agree with the Isis part. Put he will align with the Russians while taking iran out of the nexus.
> 
> Ultimately Trump will hopefully get the world rid of Isis and al Qaeeda...


interesting times ahead, nobody knows for sure what he'll do so we have to go by the rhetoric, a lot of which has been common sense about dealing with issues like isis, qaeda, fsa etc


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## CHACHA"G"

*Now its confirm that Mr Trump will be the President of USA , What I realy like to see who(other countries Leaders ) will bring there women (wife , daughters ). 
When they know Trump and his big and bad mouth about women and also when u cant trust him , He can say any thing about any visiting First Lady at any time.

Note: R we going to see wall on Mexican border , no Muslim in USA , No Mexican or other in USA , and what about EU(NATO) and other ally like in Middle East 
LOL man list is to long ....................................................................*

* BEST OF LUCK USA 

Bad time for Immigrants coming but extremely bad time for poor best ally (Arabs and NATO) *


----------



## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL He can't even fulfill on ISIS. You'll see. Just wait. What is this orange head going to do that Obama and Hillary already haven't tried? LMAO Everything is going to backfire and ISIS is going to get stronger. Assad is going to remain. The Americans don't have any solutions for ISIS because they created it in the first place. Remember, your own guy said this.


he doesn't want Assad to go, "the era of nation building will be brought to a swift end" .. or something.

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## heisenberg

maximuswarrior said:


> Can you name those countries? I'm interested.
> 
> 
> 
> That is BS and you know it. The Muslim ban and Mexican wall is something that Trump has made his election motto. He will have to deliver. No ifs and buts.


Only illegal migrants will be banned. Educated Muslim Indians with a visa will not be banned.


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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> he doesn't want Assad to go, "the era of nation building will be brought to a swift end" .. or something.



That's true, but he wants to tackle ISIS and that is going to backfire. Obama tried it and we know how that ended up.



heisenberg said:


> Only illegal migrants will be banned. Educated Muslim Indians with a visa will not be banned.



LOL at educated Muslim *Indians*. Has Trump said that? He has said *all* Muslims will be banned. Get your facts right. You can't make exceptions. It doesn't work that way.


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## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> That's true, but he wants to tackle ISIS and that is going to backfire. Obama tried it and we know how that ended up.


Trump =/= Ombango 

he'll get the job done. 




----------------------------------------------------
Trump's life recap:

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## gambit

maximuswarrior said:


> That's true, but he wants to tackle ISIS and that is going to backfire. Obama tried it and we know how that ended up.


Obama did it his way. Trump will have his own.

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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> Trump =/= Ombango
> 
> he'll get the job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Trump's life recap:



I hope for your sake, but we will see.



gambit said:


> Obama did it his way. Trump will have his own.



We'll indeed witness.

On a different note, I wonder whether Trump will go ahead with his plan to denuclearize Pakistan in cooperation with India? Another major Trump promise.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/intern...on-unstable-pakistan-nukes/article8531485.ece

*Very interesting times ahead for Pakistan. I think we can expect a more hostile and nasty USA towards Pakistan.*


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## T-72

future President Trump's foreign policy ad from September 2, 1987






a long time coming, eh ?

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## LA se Karachi

Saif al-Arab said:


> You have to have in mind that around half of the 3.5 million Arab-Americans are Christians and most live on the East Coast or major US cities. Even in Texas major cities such as Austin are majority-democratic which is natural as most city-dwellers tend to be less conservative than people living on the countryside. Basically traditional Democratic areas. However I am quite sure that the average Arab-American in mostly Democratic states have a higher tendency to vote Republican simply due to shared values.
> 
> I mean @Falcon29 for instance, who is the only Arab-American that I know here, has supported Trump all the time and he told me that most Arabs in Michigan did the same.
> 
> This report confirms it.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway apparently ALL minorities voted for Hillary in their majority however if media are to be believed ZERO Muslims voted for Trump which is a big lie.
> 
> Almost all of my Muslim American friends voted for Trump.




That's simply not true. Most Arab-Americans don't vote Republican. And the vast majority of Muslim Americans don't either. I will show you some polling data later (I'm about to go to bed). Look up the Pew Research Center's data.

That wasn't a report, just a video (that showed nothing anyway). More importantly, Dearborn is a very divided city. The Arab/Muslim dominated eastern half are very, very democratic (Obama got 80%+ vote in eastern Dearborn). The western half is mostly non-Arab, wealthier, and somewhat Republican-leaning. What happened was that Arabs in Dearborn voted for Bernie in the Democratic Primary because they are overwhelmingly Democratic. The non-Arabs voted for Trump in the Republican Primary. Arabs only make up about 30% of Dearborn's population:

_"The city's population includes 40,000 Arab Americans.[21] Arab Americans own many shops and businesses, offering services in both English and Arabic.[22]* Per the 2000 census, Arab Americans totaled 29,181 or 29.85% of Dearborn's population*; many are from families who have been in the city since the early 20th century."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dearborn,_Michigan#Demographics

_
Anecdotal evidence varies. I live here, and know of no Muslims supporting Trump. Everyone's scared to death of him. I've even heard conservative imams go so far as to ask people not to vote for him when giving Khutbahs. My family that live in other states report the same. 

Muslim-Americans are among the most Democratic-leaning groups in the country. That's a fact. All polling and party affiliation show this. You're crazy if you think that most Muslim-Americans voted for Trump. Come and visit sometime and you will see. Very, very few did.



maximuswarrior said:


> Your denial isn't going to change that fact. No doubt that the Trump voters have elected him based on these racist and xenophobic views.




This is the only part of your statement that I have a problem with. You're crazy of you think that most of his 58 million+ supporters are racist. Some of these people voted for Obama too. There is no exit-polling data to back up your outrageous claim, because it's false. You are the one in denial here.

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## C130

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL He can't even fulfill on ISIS. You'll see. Just wait. What is this orange head going to do that Obama and Hillary already haven't tried? LMAO Everything is going to backfire and ISIS is going to get stronger. Assad is going to remain. The Americans don't have any solutions for ISIS because they created it in the first place. Remember, your own guy said this.
> 
> The Middle East is going to show the US a middle finger if the Americans don't tow the Saudi line. You'll see.




for one he isn't going to air drop supplies to ISIS
second he isn't going to tell them when and where we will attack


----------



## maximuswarrior

LA se Karachi said:


> That's simply not true. Most Arab-Americans don't vote Republican. And the vast majority of Muslim Americans don't either. I will show you some polling data later (I'm about to go to bed). Look up the Pew Research Center's data.
> 
> That wasn't a report, just a video (that showed nothing anyway). More importantly, Dearborn is a very divided city. The Arab/Muslim dominated eastern half are very, very democratic (Obama got 80%+ vote in eastern Dearborn). The western half is mostly non-Arab, wealthier, and somewhat Republican-leaning. What happened was that Arabs in Dearborn voted for Bernie in the Democratic Primary because they are overwhelmingly Democratic. The non-Arabs voted for Trump in the Republican Primary. Arabs only make up about 30% of Dearborn's population:
> 
> _"The city's population includes 40,000 Arab Americans.[21] Arab Americans own many shops and businesses, offering services in both English and Arabic.[22]* Per the 2000 census, Arab Americans totaled 29,181 or 29.85% of Dearborn's population*; many are from families who have been in the city since the early 20th century."
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dearborn,_Michigan#Demographics
> 
> _
> Anecdotal evidence varies. I live here, and know of no Muslims supporting Trump. Everyone's scared to death of him. I've even heard conservative imams go so far as to ask people not to vote for him when giving Khutbahs. My family that live in other states report the same.
> 
> Muslim-Americans are among the most Democratic-leaning groups in the country. That's a fact. All polling and party affiliation show this. You're crazy if you think that most Muslim-Americans voted for Trump. Come and visit sometime and you will see. Very, very few did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the only part of your statement that I have a problem with. You're crazy of you think that most of his 58 million+ supporters are racist. Some of these people voted for Obama too. There is no exit-polling data to back up your outrageous claim, because it's false. You are the one in denial here.



I have never said that all of Trump's voters are racist. I only said that many are.



C130 said:


> for one he isn't going to air drop supplies to ISIS
> second he isn't going to tell them when and where we will attack



Like as if that was already happening LOL Don't be that simple.


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## forsigmar

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA Victory


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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> future President Trump's foreign policy ad from September 2, 1987
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a long time coming, eh ?



Hey, are South Korea, Japan and others that Trump mentioned going to become nuclear powers under Trump?

So many questions. So little answers.


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## Shakuni & Ravan

*I am a big fan of Modi, big big fan- Trump*

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## Fireurimagination

Shakuni & Ravan said:


> *I am a big fan of Modi, big big fan- Trump*



Birds of a feather flock together


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## T-72

maximuswarrior said:


> Hey, are South Korea, Japan and others that Trump mentioned going to become nuclear powers under Trump?
> 
> So many questions. So little answers.


we'll see, 4 years is plenty of time to get answers to those.


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## maximuswarrior

T-72 said:


> we'll see, 4 years is plenty of time to get answers to those.



LOL In other words, entirely possible. I'm loving it already.



GiannKall said:


> This will be a typical white old hawkish republican government of the Bush-type. Donald Trump 70, Mike Pence 58, Newt Gingrich 73, Rudy Giuliani 72 they all going to take important positions in the government



Only on steroids in my opinion. Bush is going to look like a feeble president in comparison.

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## ptldM3

I love how all the libs are eating their words. You have to love mainstream media projecting a Clinton win, not just a win but a landslide.


The corporate sleeze with all the cheating and media help could not pull off a win.

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> To celebrate our great victory this evening, a great song to remind us of the great tasks that lay ahead and to motivate us to carry on the torch of hope, just as many a patriots have done in the generations long gone:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @T-72 @C130 @XenoEnsi-14 @anon45 @Falcon29
> @Oscar @gambit @Nilgiri @LA se Karachi (apologize if i've left out any other American members)​



I am super sloshed rite now and cvan barely type but we had this playing full blast as we set off some fireworks and got the nighbourhood to call the cops who shut it downz:






Good night ALL!

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## Great Sachin

Abki bar Modi sarkar....Hindu voted and Modi won
Abki bar Cameron sarkar....Hindu voted and Cameron won
Abki bar Trump sarkar....Hindu voted and Trump won

Hilerry never said ....Abki bar Hilary sarkar ...so she lost 

Just fun

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## KAL-EL

Currently almost 5 o'clock in the morning for me, so I will now retire to try and get some sleep.

Goodnight all Americans and non-americans.

May the force be with you!!

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## Hindustani78

President's Secretariat
09-November, 2016 18:16 IST
*President of India Congratulates Mr. Donald Trump on his Election as President of the United States of America *

The President of India, Shri Pranab Mukherjee has congratulated Mr. Donald Trump on his election as the President of the United States of America.

In a message to Mr. Donald Trump, the President-elect of the United States of America, the President has said, “I extend to you my sincere congratulations on your election as the 45th President of the United States.

Your victory is a celebration of the spirit of individual heroism that has always defined the American national identity. It is also a celebration of people’s power that nurtures democracies like India and the U.S.

India and the U.S. share common values of democracy and pluralism. Strong people-to-people ties bind our nations. Our strategic and economic interests increasingly overlap. We also face common challenges. There is enormous potential for building synergies between our countries. I hope your Presidency will usher in a new era in the growing India-U.S. partnership.

As you prepare to take up your responsibilities. I convey my best wishes for your success in office and for your personal well-being”.

*****


*************

Prime Minister's Office
09-November, 2016 14:45 IST
*PM congratulates Donald Trump on Victory in US Elections*


The Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi today congratulated Mr Donald Trump on being elected as the President of the United States.

“Congratulations Donald Trump on being elected as the 45th US President.

We appreciate the friendship you have articulated towards India during your campaign.

We look forward to working with you closely to take India-US bilateral ties to a new height”, the Prime Minister said.

***
http://zeenews.india.com/news/india...donald-trump-on-election-victory_1948218.html

New Delhi: Congress President Sonia Gandhi on Wednesday congratulated Donald Trump on his election as the 45th President of the US and hoped that bilateral relations will be strengthened during his presidency.

Sonia wished him a great tenure at the Oval Office.

Republican Trump was on Wednesday elected the new US President, proving wrong the forecasters who predicted Hillary Clinton's win in one of the most bitterly fought presidential elections.


IANS

First Published: Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 00:33

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## ali_raza

trup will be very good for business


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## Hindustani78

http://zeenews.india.com/news/ameri...-hopes-for-constructive-dialogue_1947938.html
Last Updated: Wednesday, November 9, 2016 - 03:07

Moscow: Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday congratulated Donald Trump for his victory in US elections, hoping to work with him to improve relations, the Kremlin said in a statement.

Putin "expressed hope for mutual work on bringing US-Russia relations out of their critical condition" and said that "building constructive dialogue" would be in the interest of both countries and the world community, the Kremlin statement said.

AFP

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/382720.html
First Published: Wednesday, November 9, 2016 - 14:22

*Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has congratulated U.S. Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump on winning the elections and voiced the hope that U.S. leaders will continue to help Ukraine fight Russian aggression and conduct reforms.*

Poroshenko conveyed this message to U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch during a meeting in Kyiv on Wednesday, the Ukrainian president's press service reported.

*At the same time, Poroshenko said the U.S. highest office comes together with the responsibility for the country's global leadership in the democratic world.*

*"The head of state stressed that he values support given to Ukraine by political forces in the U.S., which has been demonstrated by the American people, the [House of Representatives] and the Senate, the president and the [Barrack Obama] administration," the Ukrainian presidential press service said.*

Poroshenko hopes the U.S. will continue this support in two vital areas, namely Ukraine's struggle against Russian aggression and the restoration of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and also the facilitation of major reforms in various fields, including the fight against corruption, energy sector reform, promotion of the rule of law, implementation of amendments to the Constitution regarding the national justice system, reforming of system of governance, defense and security sectors.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/ameri...e-pen-congratulates-donald-trump_1947884.html
Democratic Party nominee Hillary Clinton has congratulated Republican Donald Trump with a victory in the U.S. presidential election, according to CNN TV channel.

Clinton has called Trump on the phone thus admitting her defeat, CNN said

"Congratulations to the new president of the United States Donald Trump and to the free American people!" she said on Twitter.

Opinion polls show Le Pen likely to win the first round of French presidential elections next year but lose in the second round to whoever should be her opponent.

Reuters

First Published: Wednesday, November 9, 2016 - 13:21

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## Hindustani78



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## T-72




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## Solomon2

LA se Karachi said:


> I'm not so sure, my friend. If Trump wins Michigan or Wisconsin, it's over.


And Trump won Pennsylvania! I did not expect that.

No public statements from Clinton camp. I imagine they're exhausted but very busy: deleting e-mails, disappearing backups, and crashing hard drives...

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## VCheng

Tamilnadu said:


> I guess you have for Ms.Clinton



_Registered _Republican.

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## Solomon2

gambit said:


> Obama did it his way. Trump will have his own.


With Clinton's concession speech phone call, the ball is now back in Obama's court: what initiatives he will take to try to bind Trump, what pardons Obama will write, and whether he can be as supportive of the transition as GWB was after the 2008 election, vs. the (mild) sabotage and furniture-swiping carried out by the Clintons in 2000.

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## T-72




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## Archie

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796254492786200576


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## Indus Pakistan

@Providence What drink have you guy's been drinking in US? A country of 300 million could not find anything better than this loudmouth?

Not that I expect the loudmouth with his fake flashy gnashers to do anything extreme when he assumes office.

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## Archie

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796298938072662017

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## Mansoon




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## Solomon2

powastick said:


> US media is a joke, fake pre-polls, demonizing trump.


Not necessarily "fake" polls; rather, many people choose not to answer or participate in them. As for "demonizing Trump" - that's partly the media and partly the shock that someone so buffoonish and outrageous should seek the presidency. 

Of course, given the revelations that much of the mainstream media was working hand-in-glove with Democrats for years, it's hard to see how anyone o_ther _than Trump could have beaten them. Think of how the gentlemanly and accomplished Mitt Romney was trashed. Trump took a different tack, whether by temperament or calculation: to embrace the calumnies, rather than stand on the defensive.

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## Beast

Donald trump victory shows most American especially the white are racist. 

@gambit and @C130 Both of you better watch out while living in US. Life will never be the same again. I can forsee a lot of backlash for non white americans.

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## Solomon2

Beast said:


> @gambit and @C130 Both of you better watch out while living in US. Life will never be the same again. I can forsee a lot of backlash for non white americans.


I think what "backlash" occurs will be short-lived and rejected by all politicians.


----------



## Beast

Solomon2 said:


> I think what "backlash" occurs will be short-lived and rejected by all politicians.


You are wrong. Mark by words. Life will never be the same for non white. 

Trump is all about white supremacy. Many native white American support trump precisely for this point.

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## Mansoon

Beast said:


> Donald trump victory shows most American especially the white are racist.
> 
> @gambit and @C130 Both of you better watch out while living in US. Life will never be the same again. I can forsee a lot of backlash for non white americans.


Dumbest comment ever



Beast said:


> You are wrong. Mark by words. Life will never be the same for non white.
> 
> Trump is all about white supremacy. Many native white American support trump precisely for this point.


Prove it


----------



## Beast

Mansoon said:


> Dumbest comment ever
> 
> 
> Prove it


You never watch YouTube and see trump election speeches? You are in serious denial mode.

http://www.vox.com/identities/2016/11/9/13570922/trump-election-2016-racism

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## Penguin

Nilgiri said:


> I am super sloshed rite now and cvan barely type but we had this playing full blast as we set off some fireworks and got the nighbourhood to call the cops who shut it downz:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good night ALL!


The men that fought and died at Iwo Jima did so for a very different America/USA.


----------



## Mansoon

Beast said:


> You never watch YouTube and see trump election speeches? You are in serious denial mode.
> 
> http://www.vox.com/identities/2016/11/9/13570922/trump-election-2016-racism


Speeches? Have you heard his winning speech?


----------



## flamer84

Penguin said:


> The men that fought and died at Iwo Jima did so for a very different America/USA.




I'm sure they didn't die for a manipulative,lying,corrupt shedevil bankrolled by gulf arab money,campaigning with lady Gaga,Beyonce and her from the hood husband Jay z,to become President.

Today I'm navigating the internet on leftists liberals tears.

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## Penguin

flamer84 said:


> I'm sure they didn't die for a manipulative,lying,corrupt shedevil bankrolled by gulf arab money,campaigning with lady Gaga,Beyonce and her from the hood husband Jay z,to become President.


Would you agree that the invoking the memory of Iwo for either person is inappropriate?



flamer84 said:


> Today I'm navigating the internet on leftists liberals tears.


Good luck with that. What has it to do with me?


----------



## Russell

*2012 - 

Obama - 65,915,795 mil
Romney - 60,933,504 mil

2016 - 

Hillary - 58,879,687 mil
Trump - 58,844,144 mil

Some counting left to do still.
*
But can ppl see the difference? Romney got 60.9mil and got his butt kicked, while Trump has 58.9mil and has won in a landslide basically.

Democrats stayed home - Hillary not only didn't raise the game, she didn't get match what Obama got. People spoke about an enthusiasm gap,or not all Bernie Bros coming across and that's precisely what's happened.

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## powastick

Solomon2 said:


> Not necessarily "fake" polls; rather, many people choose not to answer or participate in them. As for "demonizing Trump" - that's partly the media and partly the shock that someone so buffoonish and outrageous should seek the presidency.
> 
> Of course, given the revelations that much of the mainstream media was working hand-in-glove with Democrats for years, it's hard to see how anyone o_ther _than Trump could have beaten them. Think of how the gentlemanly and accomplished Mitt Romney was trashed. Trump took a different tack, whether by temperament or calculation: to embrace the calumnies, rather than stand on the defensive.


Nice try. Your media isn't free, all control by Wall Street. I watch Stephen Colbert making fun of him months before. You don't even give fair coverage to him. I saw liberals censored trump supporters comments in social media and label them as trolls. Hillary misdeeds were given minimal coverage. Also giving illegals citizenship? That is 3rd world vote rigging. USA need to stop lecturing other people.

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## Beast

Mansoon said:


> Speeches? Have you heard his winning speech?


No I didn't. You seriously think some sane or non racist people will sprout nonsense about banning Muslim and build a wall away from Mexican?


----------



## T-72

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796315733819015168

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## heisenberg

maximuswarrior said:


> That's true, but he wants to tackle ISIS and that is going to backfire. Obama tried it and we know how that ended up.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL at educated Muslim *Indians*. Has Trump said that? He has said *all* Muslims will be banned. Get your facts right. You can't make exceptions. It doesn't work that way.


Politics is all about exceptions and play of words and it's ok to do so if serves the larger purpose


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## flamer84

Penguin said:


> Would you agree that the invoking the memory of Iwo for either person is inappropriate?



In all honesty,yes,he's just the lesser douchebag.

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## Penguin

Russell said:


> *2012 -
> 
> Obama - 65,915,795 mil
> Romney - 60,933,504 mil
> 
> 2016 -
> 
> Hillary - 58,879,687 mil
> Trump - 58,844,144 mil
> 
> Some counting left to do still.
> *
> But can ppl see the difference? Romney got 60.9mil and got his butt kicked, while Trump has 58.9mil and has won in a *landslide* basically.
> 
> Democrats stayed home - Hillary not only didn't raise the game, she didn't get match what Obama got. People spoke about an enthusiasm gap,or not all Bernie Bros coming across and that's precisely what's happened.


Landslide?

*a. * A percentage of votes greatly exceeding the required margin of victory. *<No*
*b. * An election that sweeps a party or candidate into office. *< only with a great deal of imagination*

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## Clutch

heisenberg said:


> Only illegal migrants will be banned. Educated Muslim Indians with a visa will not be banned.


You keep wishing that... there is Pandora's box opened ... h1 b1 visa are surely on the list



maximuswarrior said:


> I hope for your sake, but we will see.
> 
> 
> 
> We'll indeed witness.
> 
> On a different note, I wonder whether Trump will go ahead with his plan to denuclearize Pakistan in cooperation with India? Another major Trump promise.
> 
> http://www.thehindu.com/news/intern...on-unstable-pakistan-nukes/article8531485.ece
> 
> *Very interesting times ahead for Pakistan. I think we can expect a more hostile and nasty USA towards Pakistan.*


Baloney... Hindu wet dreams...

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## Penguin

flamer84 said:


> In all honesty,yes,he's just the lesser douchebag.


From where I sit, it's really disppointing to see that there were no better candidates and no real issues in this election.

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## Clutch

Solomon2 said:


> I think what "backlash" occurs will be short-lived and rejected by all politicians.


If you don't realize the paradigm shift... there is nothing that will.

Trump has named Rudy Giuliani as attorney general, newt Gingrich as sectarian of state, John Bolton as defence secatary, and Mike pence is his vice.... These guys a 100 times worse than Trump and Bolton has said American muslims should be rounded up in camps ... he is off the wall crazy... Trump is going to be a absent president those around him will call the shots while he plays golf... watch and see. He said sarah Palin is going to be energy secatary... lol... he is nuts... i love it! 
The show has just started...

Bolton makes Hitler look like Jesus... that's the level of hate this guy has... pure neocon

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## Vergennes

flamer84 said:


> Good morning folks,my ban just expired,on time to congratulate the US for electing Mr Trump as their 45th President.
> 
> A message for @AUz ,my brother who trolled the European section telling us how the US will never elect a right wing populist like us racist Europeans.This is for you man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Vergennes



Amazing. @Nilgiri

At least this election proved that polls and 'analysts' are total BS and that the real polls are during the voting days !
I remember when polls were giving Trump 1% during the Republican primary,and now he's the future POTUS.

Congratulations to the americans for electing their next president,let's hope for the best relations possible between the future US and french governments !

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## DJ_Viper

Penguin said:


> From where I sit, it's really disppointing to see that there were no better candidates and no real issues in this election.



Sir, every time you run a campaign based on Nationalistic views, "to change the system", and have a couple of groups of people or parties to blame all the mess on, your chances of winning are like 95%. It is hard to beat that type of a campaign as it is working on majority's fears and hitting people's views on how they really feel. The history is filled with these examples like France, India, Brexit in the modern history. You have Mr. Khan who is trying to run very similar campaign. The only difference is, there is no major race in Pakistan (like Whites still make up over 50% of the US). So he hasn't won. But you can see the intensity and anger just like you saw in Trump supporters. 

Now let's see if he can really "change" anything. That's very doubtful. But hey, he is our President now and we will give him the respect he deserves (unlike opening up our dirty laundry on this forum the way people do it on here on Pakistan's elected officials).

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## Russell

Penguin said:


> Landslide?
> 
> *a. * A percentage of votes greatly exceeding the required margin of victory. *<No
> b. * An election that sweeps a party or candidate into office. *< only with a great deal of imagination*


On reflection I was loose with my choice of words, but he was meant to get his butt kicked. All the talk 2 hours into the results was...how ugly is this going to get. He's overturned that and instead won comfortably.

Yes, he didn't get 300 electoral votes, but look around - no one is saying Trump just got over the line. The narrative is of a dominant victory.


----------



## maximuswarrior

DJ_Viper said:


> Sir, every time you run a campaign based on Nationalistic views, "to change the system", and have a couple of groups of people or parties to blame all the mess on, your chances of winning are like 95%. It is hard to beat that type of a campaign as it is working on majority's fears and hitting people's views on how they really feel. The history is filled with these examples like France, India, Brexit in the modern history. You have Mr. Khan who is trying to run very similar campaign. The only difference is, there is no major race in Pakistan (like Whites still make up over 50% of the US). So he hasn't won. But you can see the intensity and anger just like you saw in Trump supporters.
> 
> Now let's see if he can really "change" anything. That's very doubtful. But hey, he is our President now and we will give him the respect he deserves (unlike opening up our dirty laundry on this forum the way people do it on here on Pakistan's elected officials).



We know how much respect will be given to Trump. At least we Pakistanis have the courage to criticize corruption and fraud committed by our leaders. No, we don't appreciate it and we will openly criticize and humiliate them. That's part of our DNA. We won't accept malpractice by our leaders and we don't care whether they are officially elected. I hope you do as well, but that is highly unlikely given your conciliatory tone.

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## Blue Marlin

@James Jaevid i just refurbed my cabin, if you want you can come move to the uk but bring a coat.

ahhhh murica!!!!!!!!

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## maximuswarrior

Clutch said:


> If you don't realize the paradigm shift... there is nothing that will.
> 
> Trump has named Rudy Giuliani as attorney general, newt Gingrich as sectarian of state, John Bolton as defence secatary, and Mike pence is his vice.... These guys a 100 times worse than Trump and Bolton has said American muslims should be rounded up in camps ... he is off the wall crazy... Trump is going to be a absent president those around him will call the shots while he plays golf... watch and see. He said sarah Palin is going to be energy secatary... lol... he is nuts... i love it!
> The show has just started...
> 
> Bolton makes Hitler look like Jesus... that's the level of hate this guy has... pure neocon



The United States of America is now officially a segregated society. With the names you have mentioned only God can save America. Just watch how the American people become tired of this puppet show after 4 years. Obama still had a second term. I thought Bush had terrible company. Well, it can be a whole lot worse and Trump has proved it. LOL at Palin, Bolton, Gingrich and Giuliani. Really fvcked up times ahead for the USA. I feel for the reasonable folks over there.

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## Clutch

DJ_Viper said:


> Sir, every time you run a campaign based on Nationalistic views, "to change the system", and have a couple of groups of people or parties to blame all the mess on, your chances of winning are like 95%. It is hard to beat that type of a campaign as it is working on majority's fears and hitting people's views on how they really feel. The history is filled with these examples like France, India, Brexit in the modern history. You have Mr. Khan who is trying to run very similar campaign. The only difference is, there is no major race in Pakistan (like Whites still make up over 50% of the US). So he hasn't won. But you can see the intensity and anger just like you saw in Trump supporters.
> 
> Now let's see if he can really "change" anything. That's very doubtful. But hey, he is our President now and we will give him the respect he deserves (unlike opening up our dirty laundry on this forum the way people do it on here on Pakistan's elected officials).



He has the house, the Senate, the Congress (somewhat), and will have plus two supreme Court judges... he is going to be an absentee president... it's his nutty cabinet that will be running the show... watch and see... George Bush on steroids (dumb dumb steroids).... I love this guy...


----------



## DJ_Viper

Clutch said:


> He has the house, the Senate, the Congress (somewhat), and will have plus two supreme Court judges... he is going to be an absentee president... it's his nutty cabinet that will be running the show... watch and see... George Bush on steroids (dumb dumb steroids).... I live this guy...



Sir, he is a very sharp individual. He is for sure, smarter than a lot of people including very smart PhD's who predicted the entire game much differently. This guy alone, has changed the entire American political map against all odds. Whether he is absent or not, that's up to him on how he governs the country. But as far as his political ability is concerned he, against all odds, not only won, he won everything he was supposed to, and many from the Democratic areas. That is a very smart strategy. The entire time he knew he'd win as he referred to it a million times in terms of the silent majority that he had. And he also said he would change the political map of the US. He did that. This is a man who gets sh-it done when he starts something, just like his businesses.



maximuswarrior said:


> We know how much respect will be given to Trump. At least we Pakistanis have the courage to criticize corruption and fraud committed by our leaders. No, we don't appreciate it and we will openly criticize and humiliate them. That's part of our DNA. We won't accept malpractice by our leaders and we don't care whether they are officially elected. I hope you do as well, but that is highly unlikely given your conciliatory tone.



And you would do all this when you yourself may be corrupt, or your ethnic party may also be corupt? That is a pretty amazing logic!!

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## maximuswarrior

DJ_Viper said:


> Sir, he is a very sharp individual. He is for sure, smarter than a lot of people including very smart PhD's who predicted the entire game much differently. This guy alone, has changed the entire American political map against all odds. Whether he is absent or not, that's up to him on how he governs the country. But as far as his political ability is concerned he, against all odds, not only won, he won everything he was supposed to, and many from the Democratic areas. That is a very smart strategy. The entire time he knew he'd win as he referred to it a million times in terms of the silent majority that he had. And he also said he would change the political map of the US. He did that. This is a man who gets sh-it done when he starts something, just like his businesses.



Don't compare running a business with running a country. It remains to be seen whether he will get things done. he cannot even fulfill half of his promises and has already flip flopped on many like his supporters do on the internet. He has zero political experience. Trump alone won't be able to do anything at all. It is the people around him that matter and the initial names give me the impression that the US isn't going to do well. I wouldn't trust Palin to coach a soccer team as you would say in the US. Bolt is a first degree warmonger and his outrageous statements are well-known. So much for Trump's isolationism rhetoric. Well, what can we say about Rudy... It speaks for itself. Trump's relation with the GOP will remain rocky and he has to work with them to get things done. Let a few months pass by. We will assess his performance after that.

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## SALMAN F

happy trump's victory


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## Meengla

maximuswarrior said:


> No, but the people under him will and we know who they are. They are even worse than Trump I can assure you. Trump is kindergarten stuff. You will forget the likes of Cheney and company. This team under Trump is going to wreak havoc. Remember, they have shaped his campaign and it wasn't a lie. We better start believing what is about to come our way just like Trump's insane victory. Pinch yourself. It really is happening.



Yes sir. Very true. If Trump's lieutenants were like Rand Paul, Jill Stein, or Bernie Sanders--all for not interference in other countries--then it would be a different matter. But with 'Darth Vader' like Cheney and many like him...

But..what a night! I had to 'pinch' myself watching tv: Was it real?! Incredible upset. And an incredible counter attack by the white folks--after all, they are the majority. It was their last hurrah though. 

They may regret if/when Trump voids the Affordable Care Act and other 'benefits'. Buyers Remorse. 

Hello Canadians: Do you have room for a few more college educated, non violent, progressive folks?!

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## maximuswarrior

DJ_Viper said:


> Sir, he is a very sharp individual. He is for sure, smarter than a lot of people including very smart PhD's who predicted the entire game much differently. This guy alone, has changed the entire American political map against all odds. Whether he is absent or not, that's up to him on how he governs the country. But as far as his political ability is concerned he, against all odds, not only won, he won everything he was supposed to, and many from the Democratic areas. That is a very smart strategy. The entire time he knew he'd win as he referred to it a million times in terms of the silent majority that he had. And he also said he would change the political map of the US. He did that. This is a man who gets sh-it done when he starts something, just like his businesses.
> 
> 
> 
> And you would do all this when you yourself may be corrupt, or your ethnic party may also be corupt? That is a pretty amazing logic!!



Aren't we already criticizing them according to your own admission? Isn't that enough proof? That's a lot of presumption on your part regarding being corrupt.


----------



## flamer84

Vergennes said:


> Amazing. @Nilgiri
> 
> At least this election proved that polls and 'analysts' are total BS and that the real polls are during the voting days !
> I remember when polls were giving Trump 1% during the Republican primary,and now he's the future POTUS.
> 
> Congratulations to the americans for electing their next president,let's hope for the best relations possible between the future US and french governments !


 These elections proove that you can t constantly bully people with unsubstantieted racist accusations

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## Meengla

Oscar said:


> To put it mildly for Pakistanis; Trump is Asif Zardari with a bigger Ego.



Trump = Imran Khan, but with even bigger ego than I.K
Zardari is an extremely tolerant and compromising person in comparison, corruption aside.



Desert Fox said:


> View attachment 350505​



Even my American wife is laughing looking at this right now! She and my in laws are BIG Trump supporters.


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## Desert Fox

lol:

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## maximuswarrior

Nair saab said:


> They will make sure you get one soon ... Enjoy the barty bradher ...



LOL I'll be waiting. I hope it doesn't take as long as the proof for the surgical strike that never came LMAO



Desert Fox said:


> lol:
> 
> View attachment 350578​



LOL Nice comparison there.


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## Crixus

You are welcome buddy  , Canada is far better the US when it comes to tolerance and respect towards people 



Meengla said:


> Yes sir. Very true. If Trump's lieutenants were like Rand Paul, Jill Stein, or Bernie Sanders--all for not interference in other countries--then it would be a different matter. But with 'Darth Vader' like Cheney and many like him...
> 
> But..what a night! I had to 'pinch' myself watching tv: Was it real?! Incredible upset. And an incredible counter attack by the white folks--after all, they are the majority. It was their last hurrah though.
> 
> They may regret if/when Trump voids the Affordable Care Act and other 'benefits'. Buyers Remorse.
> 
> *Hello Canadians: Do you have room for a few more college educated, non violent, progressive folks?![/*QUOTE]

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## ChineseTiger1986

maximuswarrior said:


> The United States of America is now officially a segregated society. With the names you have mentioned only God can save America. Just watch how the American people become tired of this puppet show after 4 years. Obama still had a second term. I thought Bush had terrible company. Well, it can be a whole lot worse and Trump has proved it. LOL at Palin, Bolton, Gingrich and Giuliani. Really fvcked up times ahead for the USA. I feel for the reasonable folks over there.



Believe me, the overall US geopolitical strategies won't have any slight change regardless with Trump or not. The pivot to contain China, and other strategies in Europe/Middle East won't be affected at all. The US is doing everything to ensure its dollar hegemony regardless with who is the President. This fundamental basis won't change.

Every candidate will do the typical jobs of the US President when he/she becomes elected, even Bernie Sanders won't make exception. Just look at Obama, before he was elected, he was exactly Sanders type of guy, he was also trying to act nice with Russia, but look at now.

Most US voters are getting bored, so they need to elect someone who feels fresh, but the fundamental core regardless whom they elected won't change at all.

Trump might kill TPP, but he will soon come up with something similar with just a different name. Asian Pivot, TPP, those things were designated way before Obama getting elected by the US elites, so regardless who becomes the President, he will enact these policies to ensure the US hegemony.

I think the GOP establishment is trying to convert Trump into a typical establishment President by assigning Mike Pence as his assistant. Pence is also a typical establishment guy from the inner circle, I think he will be the one in charge with Trump running the show.


Just mark my words.

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## Desert Fox

powastick said:


> US media is a joke, fake pre-polls, demonizing trump.


Yeah the polling business is definitely going to die out now for sure. No one will ever take polls seriously , them and the Mainstream Media. They've lost all credibility.


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## Meengla

Russell said:


> *2012 -
> 
> Obama - 65,915,795 mil
> Romney - 60,933,504 mil
> 
> 2016 -
> 
> Hillary - 58,879,687 mil
> Trump - 58,844,144 mil
> 
> Some counting left to do still.
> *
> But can ppl see the difference? Romney got 60.9mil and got his butt kicked, while Trump has 58.9mil and has won in a landslide basically.
> 
> Democrats stayed home - Hillary not only didn't raise the game, she didn't get match what Obama got. People spoke about an enthusiasm gap,or not all Bernie Bros coming across and that's precisely what's happened.



Good summary.
True, the 'enthusiasm gap' cost Hillary the elections. Had it been Bernie it would be a different matter. Trump supporters have been just as passionate about Trump as Blacks were for Obama in 2008.

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## Mujraparty

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world...us-congress/story-yX2YZ66FxMJMBaAqufEOEM.html

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> No I didn't. You seriously think some sane or non racist people will sprout nonsense about banning Muslim and build a wall away from Mexican?



His foreign policies won't be much different from Obama.

Just because Obama appeals more to those liberals, hippies, LGBT groups, while Trump with the white working class, right-wing voters, conservatives, it doesn't mean that their foreign policies would be different.

The DEM/GOP's foreign policies are always consistent, so don't expect any major shift.

Obama and neocons keep rattling Russia not because they really hate Russia, but to create a rift between Russia and the West Europe will be good for the dollar hegemony. Trump will soon learn these when he becomes the President.

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## Desert Fox

flamer84 said:


> @Vergennes


Never gets old , BTW i told you he'd win.

BTW this was the only election where Social Media and Meme warfare played a major role in the victory of a Presidential Candidate

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## maximuswarrior

Desert Fox said:


> Never gets old , BTW i told you he'd win.
> 
> BTW this was the only election where Social Media and Meme warfare played a major role in the victory of a Presidential Candidate
> 
> View attachment 350587​



LOL Desert is still over the moon. Good for you buddy. Enjoy.

PS. Take me off the ignore list LMAO


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## Glorino

CONGRATULATIONS TO DONALD TRUMP for winning the President post.A very strong leader in the US is required for a peaceful and prosperous ASIA


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## Meengla

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> His foreign policies won't be much different from Obama.
> 
> Just because Obama appeals more to those liberals, hippies, LGBT groups, while Trump with the white working class, right-wing voters, conservatives, it doesn't mean that their foreign policies would be different..



To an extent, yes, the POTUS is a composite of various lobbies and forces--or a pyramid, if you will, where the POTUS sits on the very top and can't fly out or jump off. The President, thus, is more constrained that people realize.

But... the POTUS does have real powers too. Power of vetoing bills. Power of appointing high officials. Thus the POTUS can and all too often does surround himself with like minded people who'd not oppose him too much.

The very fact that the Republicans were luke warm to Trump, to put it mildly, should tell you that Trump is NOT a Republican--at least not the one who'd be bullied into policies.

*So I do expect substantial 'change'--a real change*, unlike Obama's 'change', who was not a real change maker.

But I don't think Muslims or legal immigrants have to fear Trump: American system is based on laws and Trump won't open more fronts when he already has 11 million illegals to deport.

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## Desert Fox

Crixus said:


> You are welcome buddy  , Canada is far better the US when it comes to tolerance and respect towards people


In the case of Leftists/Liberals i think they should move to Mexico instead of Canada which is Demographically more Whiter than America. Or are leftists too racist to move to a non-White country

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## Gijoe

Lol! American believe their country is democrazy, there is no country is real democrazy. They use voting to hide 1 party rules. There is no Democratic Party or Republican Party. American with their waste voting system. Everything is set and picked by congress.


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## Desert Fox

T-72 said:


> future President Trump's foreign policy ad from September 2, 1987
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a long time coming, eh ?


Wow, and that's from 1987? Goes to show Trump's consistency on important matters

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## Meengla

Desert Fox said:


> Never gets old , BTW i told you he'd win.
> 
> BTW this was the only election where Social Media and Meme warfare played a major role in the victory of a Presidential Candidate



And you are THE KING OF MEMES in this very large thread! Good job keeping us entertained.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Meengla said:


> To an extent, yes, the POTUS is a composite of various lobbies and forces--or a pyramid, if you will, where the POTUS sits on the very top and can't fly out or jump off. The President, thus, is more constrained that people realize.
> 
> But... the POTUS does have real powers too. Power of vetoing bills. Power of appointing high officials. Thus the POTUS can and all too often does surround himself with like minded people who'd not oppose him too much.
> 
> The very fact that the Republicans were luke warm to Trump, to put it mildly, should tell you that Trump is NOT a Republican--at least not the one who'd be bullied into policies.
> 
> *So I do expect substantial 'change'--a real change*, unlike Obama's 'change', who was not a real change maker.
> 
> But I don't think Muslims or legal immigrants have to fear Trump: American system is based on laws and Trump won't open more fronts when he already has 11 million illegals to deport.



To be a POTUS, it is either to work with your fellow establishment or to become the second JFK.

China is not naive to believe that Trump's administration will give us a free pass. China is the biggest competitor to the US in both economy and military strength. The rise of China means the end of the US hegemony, this is the fundamental conflict between China and the US. The coming Trump administration will just do what the Obama administration is doing now.

Russia should also not just listen what Trump is saying now, and also observe the coming actions from his administration. Will Trump's America give up the US hegemony in Europe and Middle East just because his personal honey moon with Russia? Highly unlikely.

Russia/Iran/Syria, their struggle won't end just because the switch of a POTUS, the new POTUS will do the exact same thing as his predecessor.


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## maximuswarrior

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Believe me, the overall US geopolitical strategies won't have any slight change regardless with Trump or not. The pivot to contain China, and other strategies in Europe/Middle East won't be affected at all. The US is doing everything to ensure its dollar hegemony regardless with who is the President. This fundamental basis won't change.
> 
> Every candidate will do the typical jobs of the US President when he/she becomes elected, even Bernie Sanders won't make exception. Just look at Obama, before he was elected, he was exactly Sanders type of guy, he was also trying to act nice with Russia, but look at now.
> 
> Most US voters are getting bored, so they need to elect someone who feels fresh, but the fundamental core regardless whom they elected won't change at all.
> 
> Trump might kill TPP, but he will soon come up with something similar with just a different name. Asian Pivot, TPP, those things were designated way before Obama getting elected by the US elites, so regardless who becomes the President, he will enact these policies to ensure the US hegemony.
> 
> I think the GOP establishment is trying to convert Trump into a typical establishment President by assigning Mike Pence as his assistant. Pence is also a typical establishment guy from the inner circle, I think he will be the one in charge with Trump running the show.
> 
> 
> Just mark my words.
> 
> View attachment 350585
> 
> 
> View attachment 350586



No doubt. Major US policies aren't going to change anytime soon. I agree that China containment is going to remain. However, the wars in the ME and particularly Syria are going to change I think. The American people are sick and tired of unending wars which were started during the Bush era. Trump is going to allow Russia to deal with rebel groups and ISIS.* One of the most positive developments during Trump's election win would be withdrawal of support for the various rebel groups in Syria and Iraq.* I absolutely applaud Trump for his courage to speak out against this duplicitous US policy. This hypocrisy needs to end immediately and has been the cause of much irritation. The Democrats have been hellbent on arming various groups fully knowing they were stoking an ethnic war. If we are to believe Trump that is about to change.

As for Europe, they are going to start paying upfront for US services to NATO. That is the biggest change related to Europe.

That's an amazing theory. The GOP trying to exert their influence on Trump through Pence. I think that remains to be seen, but a very viable theory. Trump isn't an easy individual though. He hates control and the GOP brass knows it all too well.



Desert Fox said:


> In the case of Leftists/Liberals i think they should move to Mexico instead of Canada which is Demographically more Whiter than America. Or are leftists too racist to move to a non-White country



Trump should nominate you as his immigration minister LMAO Man, you got some terrific ideas up your sleeve. Lock her up, right? LOL

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## Clutch

Meengla said:


> Trump = Imran Khan, but with even bigger ego than I.K
> Zardari is an extremely tolerant and compromising person in comparison, corruption aside.
> 
> 
> 
> Even my American wife is laughing looking at this right now! She and my in laws are BIG Trump supporters.



I think your in laws are not-so-secretly hoping you get deported!!... lol. Them dirty brownies... lol


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## ChineseTiger1986

maximuswarrior said:


> No doubt. Major US policies aren't going to change anytime soon. I agree that China containment is going to remain. However, the wars in the ME and particularly Syria is going to change I think. The American people are sick and tired of unending wars which were started during the Bush era. Trump is going to allow Russia to deal with rebel groups and ISIS. One of the most positive developments during Trump's election win would be withdrawal of support for the various rebel groups in Syria and Iraq. This hypocrisy needs to end immediately and has been the cause of much irritation. The Democrats have been hellbent on arming various groups fully knowing they were stoking an ethnic war. If we are to believe Trump that is about to change.
> 
> As for Europe, they are going to start paying upfront for US services to NATO. That is the biggest change related to Europe.
> 
> That's an amazing theory. The GOP trying to exert their influence on trump through Pence. I think that remains to be seen, but a very viable theory. Trump isn't an easy individual though. He hates control and the GOP brass knows it all too well.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump should nominate you his immigration minister LMAO Man, you got some terrific ideas up your sleeve.



The fate of the dollar hegemony is not depending on the mood of the American voters.

Trump might push for mass deportation just like Obama was pushing for his Obamacare, but those things are trivial.

The proxy wars between the major powers won't end.

The US dollar doesn't like the EURO to challenge its hegemony, an integrated Russia with Europe will only strengthen the EURO, so it is better to keep Russia and West Europe remaining hostile to each others.

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## Meengla

@ChineseTiger1986 : I think @maximuswarrior warrior sums up well just above me.

Yes, Trump will NOT be a typical POTUS!



Clutch said:


> I think your in laws are not-so-secretly hoping you get deported!!... lol. Them dirty brownies... lol



Yes, deport all brownies except me! I am too cute and nice. 

Really, people here amaze me: Yesterday, my father in law refused to cast vote. It's a 5 minute easy drive for us to vote. I came back from voting and asked him to vote, and he said: "It won't matter. They will steal the elections for Hillary." I don't want to embarrass him by discussing the result.

Yes, that's what the MAJORITY of Trump supporters are: Ill-informed.. I have some more choice words but..

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## ChineseTiger1986

Meengla said:


> @ChineseTiger1986 : I think @maximuswarrior warrior sums up well just above me.
> 
> Yes, Trump will NOT be a typical POTUS!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, deport all brownies except me! I am too cute and nice.
> 
> Really, people here amaze me: Yesterday, my father in law refused to cast vote. It's a 5 minute easy drive for us to vote. I came back from voting and asked him to vote, and he said: "It won't matter. They will steal the elections for Hillary." I don't want to embarrass him by discussing the result.
> 
> Yes, that's what the MAJORITY of Trump supporters are: Ill-informed.. I have some more choice words but..



His domestic policies will be atypical, but his foreign policies will be typical.


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## Meengla

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> His domestic policies will be atypical, but his foreign policies will be typical.


I think Trump's policy on Syria, if he really follows through with his words, will be a major departure from the Clinton/Obama (and the Republican policy) of past several years.
But, yes, on China, the game will continue.


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## Solomon2

Some of the mainstream media are in complete shock, even denial! Rather than post an image of the winning candidate, MSNBC has this on its website:





That's the podium at Hillary's election headquarters where MSNBC expected Mrs. Clinton to give her victory speech.

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## Desert Fox

*Hillary supporters reactions (  ):*​

















*Trump Supporters Reactions*


















@Nilgiri @T-72 @C130 @flamer84 @Vergennes​

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## Hindustani78

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1008531/saudi-arabia

Saudi Arabia’s ambassador to the United States has welcomed the election of a new president, saying that the Kingdom intends to continue its “hard work” in its relationship with America.

In a wide-ranging interview with Arab News, Prince Abdullah bin Faisal bin Turki said that he sees the “extensive relationship” between the two countries continuing under the new administration.

Republican candidate Donald Trump today emerged the 45th President of the United States, after a bitter and divisive election that divided America – and the world.

“We welcome anybody elected in any government,” Prince Abdullah said.

The ambassador said that there was no “to-do list” when it came to addressing issues with the new administration. Donald Trump is expected to be sworn in as president in January.

“We do not have a to-do list. We have a continuing list and continuing effort that I hope (is) up to the challenge. It’s just hard work, and better work, and more institutionalized work,” Prince Abdullah said.

In the full interview with Arab News, to be published in Thursday’s newspaper, the ambassador discussed the Yemen conflict and the controversial Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act (JASTA).

“The Saudi-U.S. relationship is very solid and is growing deeper in all areas, irrespective of who is in the White House, as it has over the past eight decades,” Prince Abdullah said in a statement.

“The relationship has flourished in the areas of defense cooperation, countering terrorism and violent extremism, educational and cultural exchange, as well as trade and commerce, and we expect that the United States, and specifically major U.S. corporations will play a major role as we embark on achieving the goals of our Vision 2030 plan.

“It is important to note that the two countries successfully navigated various challenges throughout the history of our relationship, from countering Soviet expansion, to the liberation of Kuwait, to fighting Al-Qaeda and Daesh (ISIL) side by side. We might at times differ on certain tactics, which is normal between close allies and friends, however, our overall objectives remain aligned, and we look forward to continuing our work with the next administration towards peace, stability, and prosperity in the region and the world over.”

The full interview will be published in Thursday's edition of Arab News and online.


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## Water Car Engineer

Gotta say man, that was one hell of an election. Well played by Trump.

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## Desert Fox

Meengla said:


> And you are THE KING OF MEMES in this very large thread! Good job keeping us entertained.


I'll be honest with you, those were not my memes and it would be unfair of me to take credit for them, but i just had to share the experience of meme magic with everyone on this thread before the election was over. The meme experience is what makes this election different from all of the others and to miss out on that would have been terrible.

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## T-72

Hillary Clinton had literally zero support from any independent media sources or commentators etc, the max she got out of them was people pledging to hold their nose and vote her in because Donald was so horrible to them.. weak sauce.

Hillary Clinton would tweet some generic political bs and 300 odd people would retweet, mostly CTR shills ? 

Hillary Clinton had really small rallies, unable to fill even high school gymnasiums. Her running mate, Kaine did even worse when only 30 people showed up to a big open air venue, that in the last week of the campaign. At her own rallies, when she did draw big crowds, it was for other attractions like Obama or Michelle, and she wasn't even the main speaker.. 

Hillary Clinton had no message apart from "he's racist, he's sexist, a failed businessman.." 

and then that failed businessman would show up in his yuge private jet and speak to crowds of tens of thousands of adoring fans. 





and how brilliantly did he use his Trump Force One as a prop, bravo.

One of his biggest assets was that he was a celebrity, and a star of a hugely successful reality shown where he played himself, a very rich and successful no nonsense boss. All through the 80s and 90s he'd already dealt with the media on his sleazy personal scandals, handled the "pussy grabber" bit like a veteran and with such ease and honesty at that debate "I'm embarrassed, I hate it, and lets move on to more important things" or something. I thought that was one of his great moments. 

I'd watched maybe a season or two of 'the apprentice' back in 06 or something before there was big news of his announcement about running where they said he went full racist and accused Mexicans of being rapists so I decided to check what it was and I was kind of blown away by how epic it was. 

I watched basically almost every single rally in the primaries following that and those were something else, he'd just be speaking off the cuff non teleprompter and talking about foreign policy and the wars in the middle east and not being enemies with Russia and about the Syrian rebels and regime change and the refugee mess and north Korea and China and NATO and all sorts of intense geopolitical issues and making complete sense. Famously gave out Lindsey Graham's phone number at one of his rallies and savaged him, McCain and the warhawk neocons nonstop and so hard it was unreal, spl considering it was a republican , sacrilege ! sacré bleu !  

months before the Orlando and San Bernadino ISIS inspired massacres, there were people at his rallies with signs that read 'gays for Trump, Mexicans for Trump' all sorts of minorities for Trump signs and he had a yuge following.
The guy was holding events in arenas and breaking all time attendance records previously set by Grammy award winning rock stars and what have you and the dishonest press never reported it.  

This was like a revolution, a real movement of the people, the only time it looked like it might face an ideologically rooted strong populist opponent was when comrade Sanders was whipping people into a frenzy on the left, people were very passionate about him, shame he sold out like he did. 

Finally, Hillary's final rallies with sleazy pop filth like Beyonce, Lady gaga and Miley Cyrus  because nobody would show up to her events was just  I don't know how she got Springsteen but his working class fans went to Trump 


America has spoken, ww3 has been averted (for now), and now we can all look fwd to some combined Russo-American bigly action vs isis and fsa in the months ahead.

I worry about a Trump assassination, but they know it'll cause a real revolution if they do that so we should be ok for a while. 

crooked h's concession speech and an Obama address coming up.

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## jha

Well Done

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## Water Car Engineer

Good speech.


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## Desert Fox

Water Car Engineer said:


> Gotta say man, that was one hell of an election. Well played by Trump.


With one hell of a climax. Imagine if he had not won despite all of the massive support from millions of passionate and enthusiastic Americans, the common man and woman who struggle to make ends meet, people who lost their jobs, their livelihood, their homes, their healthcare, people who witnessed the third worldization of their country. That would have sucked terribly had he not won despite the overwhelming support from the common people.

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## terry5

citizens of the most racist country on the planet ridden with a rape epidemic cheering ,distributing sweets for a racist rapist .








Indians Worship Donald Trump as The God of Humanity.

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## Desert Fox

SinoSoldier said:


> France (the nation that initiated the anti-Ghaddafi campaign) has little, if any, bearing on US internal politics. To put things in the right shoe, do recall that it was President Obama who called for cruise missile strikes into Libya on top of Hillary's lobbying; right-wing newspapers had little to do with the decision to go to war.


Exactly! But you see, if the shoe would have been on the other foot these same people would have cheered Hillary, but because Trump won they have to console themselves by saying things like "oh, but nothing will change, Trump will change nothing, he will start more wars" (even though the NeoCons hate his guts and supported all of his rivals during the campaign), just like they said he would never win the primaries against 16 veteran career politicians, just like they said he wouldn't get the GOP nomination, and just like they said he wouldn't win the seat of POTUS against Hillary.

Even though we all know that the entire establishment from both sides of the political spectrum; the NeoCons, the Foreign Lobbyists, the major corporations, the GOP Establishment, the entire Mainstream Media, the major Newspapers and all of the powerful politicians formed a united front against Trump and threw every imaginable dirt and garbage at him, painted him as the loser and did their best to demoralize his supporters with their rigged polls that were in favor of Hillary, so how can one believe the pathetic babbling buffoons who now claim "Oh, but Trump is just one of the establishment, it doesn't matter who wins", they wouldn't have said that had Hillary or anyone else won the POTUS, but only because they're still reeling from the massive burn from Trumps victory do they say feel good tripe like this.

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## Water Car Engineer

Desert Fox said:


> With one hell of a climax. Imagine if he had not won despite all of the massive support from millions of passionate and enthusiastic Americans, the common man and woman who struggle to make ends meet, people who lost their jobs, their livelihood, their homes, their healthcare, people who witnessed the third worldization of their country. That would have sucked terribly.




Was not, was not, was not, was not, expecting him to win... Wow, this was brilliant, all I can say. Even if you dont like the guy, you gotta give props to the campaign and the end results, epic.

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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> Wow, and that's from 1987? Goes to show Trump's consistency on important matters


yep, different countries now but same common sense, man's been on message for 30 years !

watch the long road clip, bro, it starts with a 30 year old DT being asked about running the US  



Hindustani78 said:


> http://www.arabnews.com/node/1008531/saudi-arabia
> 
> Saudi Arabia


probably wont happen but this is one US "ally" that really needs to be thrown under the bus, dismantle their cancerous ideological infrastructure and take their oil !

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## Desert Fox

Water Car Engineer said:


> Was not, was not, was not, was not, expecting him to win... Wow, this was brilliant, all I can say. Even if you dont like the guy, you gotta give probs to the campaign and the end results, epic.


To say that he won against all odds is an understatement. Once again the age old adage is proven right that "where there is a will there is a way".

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## Hindustani78

http://www.spa.gov.sa/viewstory.php?lang=en&newsid=1557115

Riyadh, Safar 9, 1438, Nov 9, 2016, SPA -- The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud sent a cable of congratulations to Donald Trump on his winning of the presidential elections in the United States of America.

In his cable, the King said, "I am pleased to send you, on behalf of the people and the Government of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and in my own name, the best congratulations and wishes of good health and happiness for you and the friendly people of the United States of America further progress and prosperity, wishing you every success in your missions to achieve security and stability in the Middle East region and the world as a whole.

The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques praised the historical deep-rooted close relations between the two friendly countries for which everyone is looking forward to developing in all fields for the interests of the two countries".
--SPA

13:55 LOCAL TIME 10:55 GMT


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## Water Car Engineer

Let me tell you, people are in a state of shock, LMAO. The anti Trump fans that is. I was leaning towards Trump, expecting a lose, honestly, and I am in a state of shock. I cant even imagine what the liberals are going through. We need suicide watch on high alert. They're about to do some crazy Buddhist self burning shit.

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## terry5

Trump is the true avatar 'of "KALIKI'. Indian-American :[Hindus] believe in the mighty power of Kalki, the Trump who alone could destroy the growing presence of the evil. Based of Vedic astrology, the moon will be in Dhanishtha nakshatra,---a very intelligent and powerful young man. will arrive at the end of Kaliyug, the age of anger/kalli, and will mark the advent of the Satya Yuga. Trump's coming at a time when darkness (evil) is the order of the day. symbolizes the Kalki Avatar

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## iPhone

This was slap on Obama's face and Hillary's. For doing what they did to Pakistan back in 2011 and all those Drone strikes. How do you like them apples now?


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## Desert Fox

T-72 said:


> This was like a revolution, a real movement of the people, the only time it looked like it might face an ideologically rooted strong populist opponent was when comrade Sanders was whipping people into a frenzy on the left, people were very passionate about him, shame he sold out like he did.


Shame indeed. Only Bernie had a real chance of beating Trump, but he backed out under pressure even though he knew he was cheated by the DNC. The GOP tried to cheat Trump as well but Trump fought back rather than back down. I guess Bernie just got tired due to his old age and wanted to get it over with lol.



T-72 said:


> Finally, Hillary's final rallies with sleazy pop filth like Beyonce, Lady gaga and Miley Cyrus  because nobody would show up to her events was just  I don't know how she got Springsteen but his working class fans went to Trump


Not to mention Madona offered to give free blowjobs to convince voters to vote for Hillary.

*Madonna Offers "Free Blowjobs" In Exchange For Votes For Hillary*

And yet they say Trump sets a bad example. Whatever Trump said, at least it was in a private conversation (which was publicized against his permission, *and most American men do talk like that privately among each other*).



T-72 said:


> crooked h's concession speech and an Obama address coming up.


Are they really????????

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## Hindustani78

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/an...tion.aspx?pageID=238&nID=105910&NewsCatID=510

The Turkish government has congratulated Donald Trump for his presidential victory on Nov. 9, while repeating its call for the extradition of U.S.-based Islamic preacher Fethullah Gülen, accused of orchestrating the failed coup attempt of July 15.

*“We congratulate Mr. Trump,” Prime Minister Binali Yıldırım said. “I am openly calling on the new president from here about the urgent extradition of Fethullah Gülen, the mastermind, executor and perpetrator of the heinous July 15 coup attempt, who lives on U.S. soil.” 

Yıldırım added that Gülen’s extradition could mark a “new beginning” in Turkey-U.S. relations. *

*“I am sure that the strategic partnership of Turkey and the U.S., which is based on a long history, has created an opportunity for the new president, paying attention to Turkey’s sensitivity in the fight against terrorism, carrying forward traditional friendly relations prioritizing peace and security in the region,” he said.*

Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu also congratulated Trump, vowing to strengthen strategic cooperation with Washington.

*“We congratulate @realDonaldTrump, President-elect of the USA. We desire to reinforce with the USA our strategic cooperation based on trust,” Çavuşoğlu tweeted. *

Later in the day, Çavuşoğlu said Turkey had always valued its relationship with the U.S. 

*“We believe that our relations that lie in trust will be further developed with Trump,” he said, adding that he believed relations between the two countries would grow stronger. *

Commenting on Gülen, Çavuşoğlu said Turkey was clear in demanding the extradition of the Islamic preacher and that the U.S. should not delay the issue.

Justice Minister Bekir Bozdağ, meanwhile, said the U.S. voters had “refused to have their national will dictated,”echoing a theme that the government frequently uses in Turkey.

“Eventually, it is the public who votes. What I see is that as an election strategy, the American public said ‘no’ to having their will be directed,” he said.

Before Trump’s victory became certain, Bozdağ said Turkey would continue to work with whoever wins the presidency.

Bozdağ underlined the importance of public support, arguing that the Hillary Clinton campaign had been supported by the elite segments of society.

“As I looked at the campaigns, I thought Clinton’s stance must be weak to necessitate a campaign from pollsters, television stations, newspapers, sportspeople and artists. I know the elections in Turkey and in other countries and it’s very important to reach the public. If the public supports you, you win. Nobody wins with newspaper headlines, polls and television stations,” he said.


*Turkey-US relations to be developed in new term*

The minister said Turkey would continue to work with the new president.

“We have joint interests, strategic partnerships, [and] there are many agreements between us. The change of presidents will not bring a radical revision of these relations,” Bozdag said. 

We hope US-Turkey relations will be better in this new term of the new president. We anticipate bringing our relationships further than today. We will see what will happen when the new president starts his duty,” he said.

November/09/2016


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## Water Car Engineer

OUCCCHHHHHH..............

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## Desert Fox

Water Car Engineer said:


> OUCCCHHHHHH..............


What a babbling buffoon this Barak Obongo. He can't even trash Donald Trump without a Teleprompter. At least Trump doesn't need a teleprompter to insult his opponents

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## F-22Raptor

I want to congratulate Donald Trump on his victory. I wish him the best over the next four years.

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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> Shame indeed. Only Bernie had a real chance of beating Trump, but he backed out under pressure even though he knew he was cheated by the DNC. The GOP tried to cheat Trump as well but Trump fought back rather than back down. I guess Bernie just got tired due to his old age and wanted to get it over with lol.


or, they had some dirt on him and the Clinton crime syndicate shook him down. 

how retarded of the democrats, though, guy was pulling them in by their thousands and had a bit of a revolution of his own going on the left but no, manipulate the media and take the most evil woman on earth and force her dying *** on the throne, but the 'murricans rejected her crooked ***, big league ! 



Desert Fox said:


> Madona offered to give free blowjobs


the sleaze and filth just never stopped flowing from the spirit cookers' evil vile campaign, you're right about the locker room bit too, men talk about pussy all the time (like some smell like fish and others smell like cheese) _it's true  
_


Desert Fox said:


> Are they really????????


yep, watch a CNN stream or something, Hillary will speak soon followed by Obama addressing the nation. 

remember this ?

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## Penguin

DJ_Viper said:


> Sir, every time you run a campaign based on Nationalistic views, "to change the system", and have a couple of groups of people or parties to blame all the mess on, your chances of winning are like 95%. It is hard to beat that type of a campaign as it is working on majority's fears and hitting people's views on how they really feel. The history is filled with these examples like France, India, Brexit in the modern history. You have Mr. Khan who is trying to run very similar campaign. The only difference is, there is no major race in Pakistan (like Whites still make up over 50% of the US). So he hasn't won. But you can see the intensity and anger just like you saw in Trump supporters.
> 
> Now let's see if he can really "change" anything. That's very doubtful. But hey, he is our President now and we will give him the respect he deserves (unlike opening up our dirty laundry on this forum the way people do it on here on Pakistan's elected officials).


Since anybody with half a brain should be able to understand that anyone that seeks to get elected for office IN the system, in order to change the system, is likely a fraud, I'm not at all happy with what that says about the US electorate. Anti-government sentiment is so ingrained in that political culture, that no matter how many times a supposed outsider is elected in to change the system and inevitably fails to do so, they keep falling for that line.



Russell said:


> On reflection I was loose with my choice of words, but he was meant to get his butt kicked. All the talk 2 hours into the results was...how ugly is this going to get. He's overturned that and instead won comfortably.
> 
> Yes, he didn't get 300 electoral votes, but look around - no one is saying Trump just got over the line. The narrative is of a dominant victory.


The electorate did, not Trump. It is a very marginal victory from a close finish. Not an overwhelming victory. But, granted, a victory nevertheless.

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## T-72

@Desert Fox @Meengla @LA se Karachi @Nilgiri @Solomon2 etc

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## F-22Raptor

Trump is actually losing the popular vote right now.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Meengla said:


> I think Trump's policy on Syria, if he really follows through with his words, will be a major departure from the Clinton/Obama (and the Republican policy) of past several years.
> But, yes, on China, the game will continue.



The Middle East pivot was made to ensure the petro-dollar hegemony, it has nothing to do with the party or President.

All GOP establishment now supporting Trump has no different view when it comes to the Middle East pivot.

Obama also made a promise of the nuclear free world, but a promise is still a promise, it wouldn't automatically turn into the reality.


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## T-72

crooked Hillary concession speech live













--------------------------------------------------

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## DJ_Viper

Penguin said:


> Since anybody with half a brain should be able to understand that anyone that seeks to get elected for office IN the system, in order to change the system, is likely a fraud, I'm not at all happy with what that says about the US electorate. Anti-government sentiment is so ingrained in that political culture, that no matter how many times a supposed outsider is elected in to change the system and inevitably fails to do so, they keep falling for that line..




Really? You are going to tell us, the Americans on our political and democratic system? What's the alternatives? Become like China and have no internet or have the local government decide if I should drink Starbucks or just water today? Or my tv should be censored? Or become like the ME, where either dictators rule and people are miserable, or dictators leave and people are still miserable? Or become like Pakistan where a system is never allowed to complete its terms under the failed "slogans" of "the other side is corrupt" and sit-ins and political violence is so ingrained that you wonder what century you live in?

And now the last question, out of which of the examples above, has a system worked to grow to be the biggest over centuries and has created a top line nation, economy and associations to the world? You are right, it is the American system!! If I, today, am authorized to find people for a US visa, citizens from any of the countries I mentioned above, would love to take that visa to the US. Now you'll tell me that our system doesn't work .

When you use comments like "half a brain", you may want to add yourself to that list also. Thanks

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## Providence

Kaptaan said:


> @Providence What drink have you guy's been drinking in US? A country of 300 million could not find anything better than this loudmouth?
> 
> Not that I expect the loudmouth with his fake flashy gnashers to do anything extreme when he assumes office.



I was involved a bit in the Hillary campaign but believe me, we are pretty astonished with the swing state results ! 

Pennsylvania and Florida in particular have been pretty disappointing. I am a firm believer in democracy though. The system would set thing in right direction when the dust settles every time !

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## T-72

Obama address now


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## cloud4000

Trump has won the election and Republic still stands. It's not just about the candidates, but the system. What will be interesting to see is what policies a Trump Administration will produce to address the problems he talked about in his campaign. Slogans are one thing, policy is another. Let's see what happens.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Meengla said:


> I think Trump's policy on Syria, if he really follows through with his words, will be a major departure from the Clinton/Obama (and the Republican policy) of past several years.
> But, yes, on China, the game will continue.



Check what Ron Paul said on the Infowars, the economy and foreign policy aren't going to change that much.

The US is going to keep printing more money, so more tension on Europe and Middle East.


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## anon45

Desert Fox said:


> To celebrate our great victory this evening, a great song to remind us of the great tasks that lay ahead and to motivate us to carry on the torch of hope, just as many a patriots have done in the generations long gone:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @T-72 @C130 @XenoEnsi-14 @anon45 @Falcon29
> @Oscar @gambit @Nilgiri @LA se Karachi (apologize if i've left out any other American members)​


Well at least Trump was gracious in victory, and a big turn from before.. though that is easy to do when you get what you want. Hopefully I've misjudged him and he is actually a wise leader who can simply play the fool very well, Hillary conceded with minimum fuss, and the transition of power will proceed largely smoothly, as it has done throughout almost all of our history.

As the song you posted is saying, the Republic will march on, and now that the elections are over it is time to give Trump a real chance, look with new eyes, and see what he does and its effects. All Americans want what's best for our country, and I'm pragmatic enough to give him a chance to win me over now that the vote is decided.

With the sweep in the elections, He will hardly get a better chance. He has his mandate, lets see if he puts it to better use than Obama did, along with the Republican congress.

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## XenoEnsi-14

Desert Fox said:


> To celebrate our great victory this evening, a great song to remind us of the great tasks that lay ahead and to motivate us to carry on the torch of hope, just as many a patriots have done in the generations long gone:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @T-72 @C130 @XenoEnsi-14 @anon45 @Falcon29
> @Oscar @gambit @Nilgiri @LA se Karachi (apologize if i've left out any other American members)​


A victory to those who voted a 3rd Party, we now have proved to the World yet again the Idiotic Power of the Sheep, and the harm they caused to themselves.

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## F-22Raptor

cloud4000 said:


> Trump has won the election and Republic still stands. It's not just about the candidates, but the system. What will be interesting to see is what policies a Trump Administration will produce to address the problems he talked about in his campaign. Slogans are one thing, policy is another. Let's see what happens.



Well said! The fact of the matter is that 4-8 years from now, a new administration will take over from Trumps. It's America's institutions that will survive and prosper.

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## RabzonKhan

*Democracy in Action *

*



*
Thank you. Thank you all very much. Thank you so much. A very rowdy group. Thank you, my friends. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you so very much for being here. I love you all, too. *Last night I congratulated Donald Trump and offered to work with him on behalf of our country.*

*I hope that he will be a successful president for all Americans. This is not the outcome we wanted or we worked so hard for, and I'm sorry we did not win this election for the values we share and the vision we hold for our country.*

But I feel pride and gratitude for this wonderful campaign that we built together. This vast, diverse, creative, unruly, energized campaign. You represent the best of America, and being your candidate has been one of the greatest honors of my life.

I know how disappointed you feel, because I feel it too. And so do tens of millions of Americans who invested their hopes and dreams in this effort. This is painful, and it will be for a long time. But I want you to remember this.

*Our campaign was never about one person, or even one election. It was about the country we love and building an America that is hopeful, inclusive, and big-hearted. We have seen that our nation is more deeply divided than we thought. But I still believe in America, and I always will. And if you do, then we must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead. Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power.*

*We don't just respect that. We cherish it. It also enshrines the rule of law; the principle we are all equal in rights and dignity; freedom of worship and expression. We respect and cherish these values, too, and we must defend them.*

[Applause]

*Let me add: Our constitutional democracy demands our participation, not just every four years, but all the time. So let's do all we can to keep advancing the causes and values we all hold dear.* Making our economy work for everyone, not just those at the top, protecting our country and protecting our planet.

And breaking down all the barriers that hold any American back from achieving their dreams. We spent a year and a half bringing together millions of people from every corner of our country to say with one voice that we believe that the American dream is big enough for everyone.

*For people of all races, and religions, for men and women, for immigrants, for LGBT people, and people with disabilities. For everyone.*

I am so grateful to stand with all of you. I want to thank Tim Kaine and Anne Holton for being our partners on this journey. [Cheers and applause]

It has been a joy get to go know them better and gives me great hope and comfort to know that Tim will remain on the front lines of our democracy representing Virginia in the Senate. [Cheers and applause]

To Barack and Michelle Obama, our country owes you an enormous debt of gratitude.

We thank you for your graceful, determined leadership that has meant so much to so many Americans and people across the world. And to Bill and Chelsea, Mark, Charlotte, Aidan, our brothers and our entire family, my love for you means more than I can ever express.

You crisscrossed this country, even 4-month-old Aidan, who traveled with his mom. I will always be grateful to the talented, dedicated men and women at our headquarters in Brooklyn and across our country.

You poured your hearts into this campaign. To some of you who are veterans, it was a campaign after you had done other campaigns. Some of you, it was your first campaign. I want each of you to know that you were the best campaign anybody could have ever expected or wanted.

And to the millions of volunteers, community leaders, activists and union organizers who knocked on doors, talked to their neighbors, posted on Facebook — even in secret private Facebook sites.

I want everybody coming out from behind that and make sure your voices are heard going forward. [Cheers and applause]

*To anyone that sent contributions, even as small as $5, that kept us going, thank you. To all of us, and to the young people in particular, I hope you will hear this — I have, as Tim said, I have spent my entire life fighting for what I believe in.*

I've had successes and setbacks and sometimes painful ones. Many of you are at the beginning of your professional, public, and political careers — you will have successes and setbacks too.

This loss hurts, but please never stop believing that fighting for what's right is worth it.

It is, it is worth it. [Cheers and applause]

And so we need — we need you to keep up these fights now and for the rest of your lives. And to all the women, and especially the young women, who put their faith in this campaign and in me: I want you to know that nothing has made me prouder than to be your champion.

Now, I know we have still not shattered that highest and hardest glass ceiling, but someday someone will — and hopefully sooner than we might think right now. [Cheers and applause]

And to all of the little girls who are watching this, never doubt that you are valuable and powerful and deserving of every chance and opportunity in the world to pursue and achieve your own dreams. 
[Cheers and applause]

Finally, finally, I am so grateful for our country and for all it has given to me.

*I count my blessings every single day that I am an American, and I still believe, as deeply as I ever have, that if we stand together and work together with respect for our differences, strengthen our convictions, and love for this nation, our best days are still ahead of us.*

Because, you know, I believe we are stronger together and we will go forward together. And you should never, ever regret fighting for that. You know, scripture tells us, let us not grow weary of doing good, for in good season we shall reap. My friends, let us have faith in each other, let us not grow weary and lose heart, for there are more seasons to come and there is more work to do.

*I am incredibly honored and grateful to have had this chance to represent all of you in this consequential election. May God bless you and may God bless the United States of America."*

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## JanjaWeed

Has Leftists around the world recovered from the shock yet? 
Libtards still think Trump has no right to enter the white house.. & it's right of the left to Govern the masses! Leftists need to open their eyes & make peace with the fact that ideology as has come full circle! You can not demean or show utter contempt to the ideology or those who are opposed to yours! Hence the wind of changes around the developed & developing world, from Europe to America to Asia!

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## T-72

anyone notice that Trump always maintained a degree of respect for Obama all through the campaign, no nicknames etc

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## ChineseTiger1986

T-72 said:


> anyone notice that Trump always maintained a degree of respect for Obama all through the campaign, no nicknames etc



He also claimed to pay the respect for Hillary, and still being old buddies after the election. Such thing "put her in jail" simply won't happen. This is the political compromisation between the elites.

- Hillary won't go to the jail and the Fed won't get audited.

- Trump will do everything to contain China just like Obama did before.

- Assad still needs to go and Ukraine has to join NATO.

Hillary just lost in the President interview, so he will do her jobs, and the jobs remain the same.

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## T-72

he could have branded Obama for life, and it would have stuck lol

poor crooked hillary 

Putin and Merkel, cant wait for that photo op


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## flamer84

Got to love the internet today,hollywood's a$$ on fire


T-72 said:


> anyone notice that Trump always maintained a degree of respect for Obama all through the campaign, no nicknames etc




Because he's smart,after the hispanics he didn't want to alienate the black vote altogether.



RabzonKhan said:


> *Democracy in Action *
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Thank you. Thank you all very much. Thank you so much. A very rowdy group. Thank you, my friends. Thank you. Thank you.
> 
> Thank you so very much for being here. I love you all, too. *Last night I congratulated Donald Trump and offered to work with him on behalf of our country.*
> 
> *I hope that he will be a successful president for all Americans. This is not the outcome we wanted or we worked so hard for, and I'm sorry we did not win this election for the values we share and the vision we hold for our country.*
> 
> But I feel pride and gratitude for this wonderful campaign that we built together. This vast, diverse, creative, unruly, energized campaign. You represent the best of America, and being your candidate has been one of the greatest honors of my life.
> 
> I know how disappointed you feel, because I feel it too. And so do tens of millions of Americans who invested their hopes and dreams in this effort. This is painful, and it will be for a long time. But I want you to remember this.
> 
> *Our campaign was never about one person, or even one election. It was about the country we love and building an America that is hopeful, inclusive, and big-hearted. We have seen that our nation is more deeply divided than we thought. But I still believe in America, and I always will. And if you do, then we must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead. Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power.*
> 
> *We don't just respect that. We cherish it. It also enshrines the rule of law; the principle we are all equal in rights and dignity; freedom of worship and expression. We respect and cherish these values, too, and we must defend them.*
> 
> [Applause]
> 
> *Let me add: Our constitutional democracy demands our participation, not just every four years, but all the time. So let's do all we can to keep advancing the causes and values we all hold dear.* Making our economy work for everyone, not just those at the top, protecting our country and protecting our planet.
> 
> And breaking down all the barriers that hold any American back from achieving their dreams. We spent a year and a half bringing together millions of people from every corner of our country to say with one voice that we believe that the American dream is big enough for everyone.
> 
> *For people of all races, and religions, for men and women, for immigrants, for LGBT people, and people with disabilities. For everyone.*
> 
> I am so grateful to stand with all of you. I want to thank Tim Kaine and Anne Holton for being our partners on this journey. [Cheers and applause]
> 
> It has been a joy get to go know them better and gives me great hope and comfort to know that Tim will remain on the front lines of our democracy representing Virginia in the Senate. [Cheers and applause]
> 
> To Barack and Michelle Obama, our country owes you an enormous debt of gratitude.
> 
> We thank you for your graceful, determined leadership that has meant so much to so many Americans and people across the world. And to Bill and Chelsea, Mark, Charlotte, Aidan, our brothers and our entire family, my love for you means more than I can ever express.
> 
> You crisscrossed this country, even 4-month-old Aidan, who traveled with his mom. I will always be grateful to the talented, dedicated men and women at our headquarters in Brooklyn and across our country.
> 
> You poured your hearts into this campaign. To some of you who are veterans, it was a campaign after you had done other campaigns. Some of you, it was your first campaign. I want each of you to know that you were the best campaign anybody could have ever expected or wanted.
> 
> And to the millions of volunteers, community leaders, activists and union organizers who knocked on doors, talked to their neighbors, posted on Facebook — even in secret private Facebook sites.
> 
> I want everybody coming out from behind that and make sure your voices are heard going forward. [Cheers and applause]
> 
> *To anyone that sent contributions, even as small as $5, that kept us going, thank you. To all of us, and to the young people in particular, I hope you will hear this — I have, as Tim said, I have spent my entire life fighting for what I believe in.*
> 
> I've had successes and setbacks and sometimes painful ones. Many of you are at the beginning of your professional, public, and political careers — you will have successes and setbacks too.
> 
> This loss hurts, but please never stop believing that fighting for what's right is worth it.
> 
> It is, it is worth it. [Cheers and applause]
> 
> And so we need — we need you to keep up these fights now and for the rest of your lives. And to all the women, and especially the young women, who put their faith in this campaign and in me: I want you to know that nothing has made me prouder than to be your champion.
> 
> Now, I know we have still not shattered that highest and hardest glass ceiling, but someday someone will — and hopefully sooner than we might think right now. [Cheers and applause]
> 
> And to all of the little girls who are watching this, never doubt that you are valuable and powerful and deserving of every chance and opportunity in the world to pursue and achieve your own dreams.
> [Cheers and applause]
> 
> Finally, finally, I am so grateful for our country and for all it has given to me.
> 
> *I count my blessings every single day that I am an American, and I still believe, as deeply as I ever have, that if we stand together and work together with respect for our differences, strengthen our convictions, and love for this nation, our best days are still ahead of us.*
> 
> Because, you know, I believe we are stronger together and we will go forward together. And you should never, ever regret fighting for that. You know, scripture tells us, let us not grow weary of doing good, for in good season we shall reap. My friends, let us have faith in each other, let us not grow weary and lose heart, for there are more seasons to come and there is more work to do.
> 
> *I am incredibly honored and grateful to have had this chance to represent all of you in this consequential election. May God bless you and may God bless the United States of America."*




Yeah right....9 hours later than she should have done it,after probably crying in a pillow all day and abandoning her supporters in the middle of the night.

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## T-72

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> He also claimed to pay the respect for Hillary, and still being old buddies after the election. Such thing "put her in jail" simply won't happen. This is the compromisation between the elites.
> 
> - Hillary won't go to the jail and the Fed won't get audited.
> 
> - Trump will do everything to contain China just like Obama did before.
> 
> - Assad still needs to go and Ukraine has to join NATO.
> 
> Hillary just lost in the President interview, so he will do her jobs, and the jobs remain the same.


we'll see, China figured prominently in his rhetoric all through the primaries and into the general campaign, but on stuff like fixing the trade deficit and to do with intellectual property etc, not so much for a military confrontation but he did drop a few "they're building fortresses in the SCS"

lets see, Trump and Duterte should be interesting..

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-reaction-philippines-idUSKBN13412N

So far there is no indication that he will want to remove Assad, no more Saudi terror influence in the white house, lets hope so anyway.



flamer84 said:


> Because he's smart,after the hispanics he didn't want to alienate the black vote altogether.


he did ok with the hispanics and blacks, much better than Romney, right ? 

His campaign was never racially motivated in that sense, the white nationalists just happened to find some common ground with him but there's nothing nefarious cooking there. The WN stuff is a reality that all western societies must eventual confront, regulation political fringe loonies for now.

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## Desert Fox

JanjaWeed said:


> Has Leftists around the world recovered from the shock yet?
> Libtards still think Trump has no right to enter the white house.. & it's right of the left to Govern the masses! Leftists need to open their eyes & make peace with the fact that ideology as has come full circle! You can not demean or show utter contempt to the ideology or those who are opposed to yours! Hence the wind of changes around the developed & developing world, from Europe to America to Asia!


I'm afraid that is a lesson the left will never learn.

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## Nilgiri

flamer84 said:


> I'm sure they didn't die for a manipulative,lying,corrupt shedevil bankrolled by gulf arab money,campaigning with lady Gaga,Beyonce and her from the hood husband Jay z,to become President.
> 
> Today I'm navigating the internet on leftists liberals tears.



Hey werent you gonna leave the forum if trump wins


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## xenon54 out

2016 was hell of a year, so many unexpected events happened.

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## Nilgiri

Vergennes said:


> Amazing. @Nilgiri
> 
> At least this election proved that polls and 'analysts' are total BS and that the real polls are during the voting days !
> I remember when polls were giving Trump 1% during the Republican primary,and now he's the future POTUS.
> 
> Congratulations to the americans for electing their next president,let's hope for the best relations possible between the future US and french governments !



Its the dawn of a new beginning.

The Right will begin to seriously feed off this Trump victory all across the civilised world. Its about time as people shed the political correct BS fed to them by the leftist cartel (who have cleverly transitioned into stealth + deception mode ever since the USSR imploded big league)....... and vote for common sense and hopefully non-political creatures (to stick it to the political elite abandoning them). This is what democracy is about truly....and it happened in the greatest democracy on Earth so there is hope for everyone else.

2016.....what a year! I was at my prime of my life when it happened.....do I have a story to tell my grandkids down the road

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## EgyptianAmerican

xenon54 said:


> 2016 was hell of a year, so many unexpected events happened.



How long Approximately would it take to learn Turkish? Also how long would it take to become a Citizen? 

Have any decent Universities?


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## Mansoon

Beast said:


> No I didn't. You seriously think some sane or non racist people will sprout nonsense about banning Muslim and build a wall away from Mexican?


It was election stuff


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## EgyptianAmerican

Desert Fox said:


> View attachment 350686​
> 
> I'm afraid that is a lesson the left will never learn.



Can't wait till we are 40 trillion dollars in debt while paying for a wall that is completely disastrous.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Wow, overall clinton got more votes than trump, but trump still won 279 w.r.t hillary 229.

Hillary Clinton secured 59,647,392 votes compared to trump 59,438,335 votes.

lol, bad luck for hillary. 

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president

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## KediKesenFare3

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Wow, overall clinton got more votes than trump, but trump still won 279 w.r.t hillary 229.
> 
> Hillary Clinton secured 59,647,392 votes compared to trump 59,438,335 votes.
> 
> lol, bad luck for hillary.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president



This is one of the reasons why I personally don't classify the United States of America as a full democracy.

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## xenon54 out

EgyptianAmerican said:


> How long Approximately would it take to learn Turkish? Also how long would it take to become a Citizen?
> 
> Have any decent Universities?


Speaking wont take very long, ofcourse it depends on your skills, citizenship on the other hand is quite hard to get in Turkey, there might be exceptions on talented or important people, other than that you must have lived a certain amount of time in Turkey, speak fluently, learn the political system, hymn, a little bit history etc.etc.

METU is one of the best universities in ME, also many Turkish uni's are among the top in BRICS and emerging markets.


Edit: Oh shit i just got your joke.  And i was thinking how this is related to the topic.

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## Nilgiri

DPRK News:

Strategy by former US Warlord Bill Clinton to encourage Donald Trump in seeking office seems unwise in retrospect, leading historians say.

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## T-72

Nilgiri said:


> DPRK News:
> 
> Strategy by former US Warlord Bill Clinton to encourage Donald Trump in seeking office seems unwise in retrospect, leading historians say.


wut ?


----------



## Mansoon

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Wow, overall clinton got more votes than trump, but trump still won 279 w.r.t hillary 229.
> 
> Hillary Clinton secured 59,647,392 votes compared to trump 59,438,335 votes.
> 
> lol, bad luck for hillary.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president


It's electoral vote that matters not total votes



KediKesenFare said:


> This is one of the reasons why I personally don't classify the United States of America as a full democracy.


It's full democracy. Different voting patterns can exist because of number of electorates

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## ChineseTiger1986

T-72 said:


> So far there is no indication that he will want to remove Assad, no more Saudi terror influence in the white house, lets hope so anyway.



Nope, Trump is less green friendly than Obama, so his economic policies will still be more depending on the oil, so the national relationship between the US and KSA won't cease to exist.

Not only Hillary, many prominent GOP figures also have a good relationship with the KSA, so nothing is going to change with Trump's presidency.

All his buddies in his administration are still keen to overthrow Assad with the FSA. This is the general consensus between the two parties.

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## cloud4000

F-22Raptor said:


> Well said! The fact of the matter is that 4-8 years from now, a new administration will take over from Trumps. It's America's institutions that will survive and prosper.



This is why I laugh when I see comments from liberals that we are seeing the second coming of Hitler. The founders of the United States created a system designed to handle anyone who has authoritarian tendencies. Being POTUS doesn't mean you can do what you want.

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## Nilgiri

T-72 said:


> wut ?



You have never seen this?:

https://twitter.com/DPRK_News?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

Welcome to a new world of entertainment.


----------



## T-72

Nilgiri said:


> You have never seen this?:
> 
> https://twitter.com/DPRK_News?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author
> 
> Welcome to a new world of entertainment.


lol

I'll bet Alejandro, the Spanish commie cartoon runs that account.







You have seen 'friends of Kim' , right ?

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## xenon54 out

Simpsons knew it!

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## flamer84



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## xenon54 out

flamer84 said:


>


Lol since when Constantinople was Russian?

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## cloud4000

And the campaign for President in 2020 begins...right now. It will be interesting to see what Democrats -- and Republicans -- will be visiting Iowa and New Hampshire to test the waters, so to speak. The campaign for the presidency never ends.

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## T-72

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Nope, Trump is less green friendly than Obama, so his economic policies will still be more depending on the oil, so the national relationship between the US and KSA won't cease to exist.
> 
> Not only Hillary, many prominent GOP figures also have a good relationship with the KSA, so nothing is going to change with Trump's presidency.
> 
> All his buddies in his administration are still keen to overthrow Assad with the FSA. This is the general consensus between the two parties.


not sure about their China policy specifically but this should be a more visible US policy shift than what Bush to Obama was, they need KSA for oil, that unholy alliance will sadly endure.

I doubt he goes the neocon way and continues current policies, Assad will probably stay if he's friendly to US interests and if they can find common ground with the Russians.


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## ChineseTiger1986

T-72 said:


> not sure about their China policy specifically but this should be a more visible US policy shift than what Bush to Obama was, they need KSA for oil, that unholy alliance will sadly endure.
> 
> I doubt he goes the neocon way and continues current policies, Assad will probably stay if he's friendly to US interests and if they can find common ground with the Russians.



Who cares about his China policy?

We are that strong, love it or leave it.

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## T-72

cloud4000 said:


> And the campaign for President in 2020 begins...right now. It will be interesting to see what Democrats -- and Republicans -- will be visiting Iowa and New Hampshire to test the waters, so to speak. The campaign for the presidency never ends.


Pocahontas ?


xenon54 said:


> Simpsons knew it!


much debunked already, that Simpsons episode was aired in late 2015


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## xenon54 out

T-72 said:


> much debunked already, that Simpsons episode was aired in late 2015


Really? Damn, i though it was legit since Simpsons had pretty much everything already.

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## AUz

flamer84 said:


> Good morning folks,my ban just expired,on time to congratulate the US for electing Mr Trump as their 45th President.
> 
> A message for @AUz ,my brother who trolled the European section telling us how the US will never elect a right wing populist like us racist Europeans.This is for you man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Vergennes





Getting my tickets for Pakistan I guess 

To be fair, it was expected that he might win (although everybody thought Hilary as favorite). What REALLY surprised me was that he won Pennsylvania!! Like holy shit!! His message resonated in the rust belt so his victory there wasn't as surprising. But a state like Pennsylvania. Crazy.

Let's see what happens in Europe now btw. I am rooting for Alain Juppe in France to win the nomination and eventually elections. 

On cultural front (more important)..left still won last night with major states legalizing Marijuana and what not. Hopefully Trump is a good president and doesnt start needless wars like Bush did.

I respect Trump though. He won fair and square so no qualms there. Hillary won the popular vote btw..



flamer84 said:


> Not surprising to be honest.No jail for Hillary,walls or banns in it.


 
So if Trump doesn't stop immigration, and does half Islamic immigration in the US, and things keep running the way they are with some changes off course...wouldn't that be a total defeat for alt-right camp hoping to reverse the trends, save their cultures, and blah blah blah

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## Vergennes

AUz said:


> Let's see what happens in Europe now btw. I am rooting for Alain Juppe in France to win the nomination and eventually elections.



Why btw ?


----------



## AUz

Vergennes said:


> Why btw ?



Because he is moderate, corruptionless, and a smart leader. He isn't batshit crazy like Marine Le Pen or an utter idiot like Sarkozy. He can united France 

Moreover, Juppe also respect *millions* of Muslim French and doesn't talk about stupid burkini bans or urging to feed pork to Muslim kids in order to assimilate them etc etc. 

Who are you supporting upcoming elections? Le Pen, Sakozy, or Juppe'


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## EgyptianAmerican

flamer84 said:


>

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## Vergennes

AUz said:


> Because he is moderate, corruptionless, and a smart leader. He isn't batshit crazy like Marine Le Pen or an utter idiot like Sarkozy. He can united France



Yeah... a guy that was sentenced by the justice and fled during 3 years to Canada to escape the french justice... lol.




> Moreover, Juppe also respect *millions* of Muslim French and doesn't talk about stupid burkini bans or urging to feed pork to Muslim kids in order to assimilate them etc etc



The same Juppé that has links with the MBs. Be sure that if Juppé is elected,Marine is coming in 2022. (Also for other reasons,but that would be too long to explain.)



> Who are you supporting upcoming elections? Le Pen, Sakozy, or Juppe'



The elections are in 5-6,we are currently in primary elections,the one of the center-right is coming (20th and 27th november) and I am rooting for François Fillon,the former PM. 
I wasn't too sure,but after following the debates on TV,he was the most convincing one,has the best project of all in my opinion.


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## boomslang

Desert Fox said:


> *Hillary Uses Jay-Z To Attract People To Rally With Free Tickets, Turnout Still Low Compared To Trump Rally*​
> View attachment 349886​
> ....




I can't wait for all of Killarys douche bag friends move to Canada. I once saw a Jay Z concert. It was unwatchable /listenable. Sure, it's just fine for a leftocrat to get all ghettoed up but conservative.... ? They slap you with some kind of "ist" or "phobe". Racist, sexist....... I just got home from work and the wife and I are hoisting Crown Royals and Heinekens to that filthy pig Killarys @ss-kicking. CHEERS !!

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## EgyptianAmerican

boomslang said:


> I can't wait for all of Killarys douche bag friends move to Canada. I once saw a Jay Z concert. It was unwatchable /listenable. Sure, it's just fine for a leftocrat to get all ghettoed up but conservative.... ? They slap you with some kind of "ist" or "phobe". Racist, sexist....... I just got home from work and the wife and I are hoisting Crown Royals and Heinekens to that filthy pig Killarys ***-kicking. CHEERS !!



It was hardly an ***-kicking. It was ridiculously close, and you shouldn't be boasting over a hard fought campaign. Show some respect. 

_Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle._
_-Plato

_

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## boomslang

EgyptianAmerican said:


> It was hardly an ***-kicking. It was ridiculously close, and you shouldn't be boasting over a hard fought campaign. Show some respect.
> 
> _Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
> -Plato
> _



The MSM polls had her winning handily. But even with all her celebrity 'friends', the media in her pocket and her big, corrupt machine the skank couldn't pull it off. A million ball-bags on her chin. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!


----------



## XenoEnsi-14

xenon54 said:


> Really? Damn, i though it was legit since Simpsons had pretty much everything already.


Sorry, Magical Donuts went with the Unicorn and Fairies into the Fictional Universe long long ago.


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## xenon54 out

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> Sorry, Magical Donuts went with the Unicorn and Fairies into the Fictional Universe long long ago.


Hmm ok.

On topic, the first contact with Trumps side make hope for better relations with US, the talks about strenghtening ties and extraditing Gülen started already.
Hillary was saying she would arm YPG even more, i must say im not upset about the outcome of the election so far, lets see how its gonna develop.

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## XenoEnsi-14

xenon54 said:


> Hmm ok.
> 
> On topic, the first contact with Trumps side make hope for better relations with US, the talks about strenghtening ties and extraditing Gülen started already.
> Hillary was saying she would arm YPG even more, i must say im not upset about the outcome of the election so far, lets see how its gonna develop.


I'm not upset either, but I think Gary Johnson (3rd party) may have left with the Unicorns too. Only hope is next Presidential election.


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## xenon54 out

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> I'm not upset either, but I think Gary Johnson (3rd party) may have left with the Unicorns too. Only hope is next Presidential election.


It always baffled me why no 3rd party is able to make it into the race in US.

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## XenoEnsi-14

xenon54 said:


> It always baffled me why no 3rd party is able to make it into the race in US.


Because they aren't Shepherds to the Sheep, and they aren't bought by big money. Only wolves vote for them.

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## EgyptianAmerican

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> Because they aren't Shepherds to the Sheep, and they aren't bought by big money. Only wolves vote for them.



Did you know Jill Stein's and Gary Johnson's policies other then pro-green?

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## xenon54 out

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> Because they aren't Shepherds to the Sheep, and they aren't bought by big money. Only wolves vote for them.


Funding political parties should be banned imo, its like a invitation to corruption.

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## Penguin

DJ_Viper said:


> Really? You are going to tell us, the Americans on our political and democratic system? What's the alternatives? Become like China and have no internet or have the local government decide if I should drink Starbucks or just water today? Or my tv should be censored? Or become like the ME, where either dictators rule and people are miserable, or dictators leave and people are still miserable? Or become like Pakistan where a system is never allowed to complete its terms under the failed "slogans" of "the other side is corrupt" and sit-ins and political violence is so ingrained that you wonder what century you live in?
> 
> And now the last question, out of which of the examples above, has a system worked to grow to be the biggest over centuries and has created a top line nation, economy and associations to the world? You are right, it is the American system!! If I, today, am authorized to find people for a US visa, citizens from any of the countries I mentioned above, would love to take that visa to the US. Now you'll tell me that our system doesn't work .
> 
> When you use comments like "half a brain", you may want to add yourself to that list also. Thanks


Yes, halfbrain I can and I will. 

NOTE: The basic ideas for your system come from Western Europe. 
PERHAPS YOU SHOULD NOTE: I didn't comment on your system, I commented on your VOTERS.

A-hole.


----------



## AUz

flamer84 said:


>




LMAOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!




Best of luck with your fantasy masturbations.


----------



## KAL-EL

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> He also claimed to pay the respect for Hillary, and still being old buddies after the election. Such thing "put her in jail" simply won't happen. This is the political compromisation between the elites.
> 
> - Hillary won't go to the jail and the Fed won't get audited.
> 
> - Trump will do everything to contain China just like Obama did before.
> 
> - Assad still needs to go and Ukraine has to join NATO.
> 
> Hillary just lost in the President interview, so he will do her jobs, and the jobs remain the same.




You summed about it up quite well.

Some of the people here who think that there's going to be some super dramatic multi world changes are in for some utter disappointment.

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

Now with all that being said, I hope a president Trump can affect some change for good.

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## XenoEnsi-14

EgyptianAmerican said:


> Did you know Jill Stein's and Gary Johnson's policies other then pro-green?


Just trying to make America interesting again.

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## Desert Fox

EgyptianAmerican said:


> It was hardly an ***-kicking. It was ridiculously close, and you shouldn't be boasting over a hard fought campaign. Show some respect.
> 
> _Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle._
> _-Plato
> 
> _



Shillary got her butt kicked real good, and the moronic left got their rear handed to them.

It's really funny to see Muslim Brotherhood members within the leftist movement with all of those child molesting homos and tranny's. I wonder which version of Islam they are following  .

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## Desert Fox

boomslang said:


> The MSM polls had her winning handily. But even with all her celebrity 'friends', the media in her pocket and her big, corrupt machine the skank couldn't pull it off. A million ball-bags on her chin. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!



Trump really grabbed her by the you know what real good.


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## EgyptianAmerican

Desert Fox said:


> It's really funny to see Muslim Brotherhood members within the leftist movement with all of those child molesting homos and tranny's. I wonder which version of Islam they are following  .



I hate the MB, In fact i'm pretty sure @mike2000 is back can vouch for me on this.

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## Penguin

boomslang said:


> I can't wait for all of Killarys douche bag friends move to Canada. I once saw a Jay Z concert. It was unwatchable /listenable. Sure, it's just fine for a leftocrat to get all ghettoed up but conservative.... ? They slap you with some kind of "ist" or "phobe". Racist, sexist....... I just got home from work and the wife and I are hoisting Crown Royals and Heinekens to that filthy pig Killarys @ss-kicking. CHEERS !!


You will not defile our Heineken, thank you

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## Desert Fox

EgyptianAmerican said:


> I hate the MB, In fact i'm pretty sure @mike2000 is back can vouch for me on this.



Oh, okay. I assumed you were judging from some of your previous posts. My apologies. I've come across plenty of MB supporters here in the states and many of them preach one thing and do another. A self contradicting bunch I must say. I'm not sure if they're like that in Egypt.


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## DJ_Viper

Penguin said:


> Yes, halfbrain I can and I will.
> 
> NOTE: The basic ideas for your system come from Western Europe.
> PERHAPS YOU SHOULD NOTE: I didn't comment on your system, I commented on your VOTERS.
> 
> *A-hole*.



Someone seems pretty hurt. Your knowledge about our system is much less than half-brain you claim to have. Our system was developed on European principles?? Really? This is the level of your knowledge!!

Our system was developed *opposing* the European and British systems. There is a reason why the British and the European back then had the Kings and Queens (some still do), and we went towards a Presidential system with an Electorate College made up of State's share represented by people. We adapted Fahrenheit and the Brits / Europeans used Celsius. They used 220 volts standard electricity, we decided we'd have 110. They drink Tea, we had a Tea party to show our revolt against them and we said Coffee is our drink. They turn off the switch and in the US, it would actually turn on the light. They had the "kingship", we had and have "The People"!!

So our forefathers, out of hate for their system and to get independence, did everything opposite from them. I don't understand why some people have to stick their nose up others near, just to smell sh-it. If you don't know anything, don't act like a smart Alec. You first tried to insult me, you still had no idea what you were talking about, this is the continuation of the same behavior!!

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## Desert Fox

Gotta keep the meme magic alive @KAL-EL @Meengla @T-72 @Nilgiri

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## Penguin

DJ_Viper said:


> Someone seems pretty hurt.


Right 



DJ_Viper said:


> Your knowledge about our system is much less than half-brain you claim to have. Our system was developed on European principles?? Really? This is the level of your knowledge!!


Enlightment, French revolotion? IDEAS travel, as do founding fathers, notably to Europe (e.g. John Adams, US embassador to Holland, the first state to recognize the US and sign trade agreements with it, thank you)

Thomas Hobbes, John Locke, Montesquieu? Adam Smith, Isaac Newton, Francis Bacon? Natural rights? Social contract? Ring a bell? Several Americans, especially Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, played a major role in bringing Enlightenment ideas to the New World. The Americans closely followed English and Scottish political ideas, as well as some French thinkers. Ideas of Montesqieu informed early American ideas of government and was a major influences on the Constitution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment



DJ_Viper said:


> Our system was developed *opposing* the European and British systems. There is a reason why the British and the European back then had the Kings and Queens (some still do), and we went towards a Presidential system with an Electorate College made up of State's share represented by people. We adapted Fahrenheit and the Brits / Europeans used Celsius. They used 220 volts standard electricity, we decided we'd have 110. They drink Tea, we had a Tea party to show our revolt against them and we said Coffee is our drink. They turn off the switch and in the US, it would actually turn on the light. They had the "kingship", we had and have "The People"!!


And you can say this by lumping together Britisch and 'European' political thought? How little your knowledge of thought in European countries, other than Britain.

The Enlightenment is all over the US constitution. Jefferson himself made references to the beliefs of the Enlightenment philosopher John Locke in the Declaration of Independence.
https://sites.google.com/site/enlightenmentinfluenceamerica/us-constitution

And then there is the 'American enlightenment'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enlightenment#European_sources



DJ_Viper said:


> So our forefathers, out of hate for their system and to get independence, did everything opposite from them. I don't understand why some people have to stick their nose up others near, just to smell sh-it. If you don't know anything, don't act like a smart Alec. You first tried to insult me, you still had no idea what you were talking about, this is the continuation of the same behavior!!



Tsk tsk. US PhD Public Administration. Over a decade residence in WashDC. Lots of US relatives. Don't cry.

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## DJ_Viper

Penguin said:


> Tsk tsk. US PhD Public Administration. Over a decade residence in WashDC. Lots of US relatives. Don't cry.



Obviously your background in Public Administration is far, far away from Political Science and American History, let alone Europeans and Brits. So what happened? No one gave you a work Visa after residency? I thought they were giving it way to everyone with a PhD? May be your PhD wasn't worth anything in terms of career growth? Sorry, sh-it happens. Now I know why you are burnt.


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## Penguin

DJ_Viper said:


> Obviously your background in Public Administration is far, far away from Political Science and American History, let alone Europeans and Brits. So what happened? No one gave you a work Visa after residency? I thought they were giving it way to everyone with a PhD? May be your PhD wasn't worth anything in terms of career growth? Sorry, sh-it happens. Now I know why you are burnt.


Lame response. Because essentially I do know the country, its people and political history (repeat: PhD from a US R1 research university in the DC area: lots of federalism, political culture and -history taught. That is, in addition to my Dutch university degree). I left the US after I met my wife there, who wasn't from the US. So, to sum up, you know nothing. You are the one and only sore looser here.

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## Desert Fox

Although not precisely American, but since America was founded by Anglo-Saxons and is a majority English speaking nation I think this poem applies, especially now in the current wake of events with the awakening of the White working class and rise of White identitarian movement:


THE WRATH OF THE AWAKENED SAXON
by Rudyard Kipling

It was not part of their blood,
It came to them very late,
With long arrears to make good,
When the Saxon began to hate.

They were not easily moved,
They were icy -- willing to wait
Till every count should be proved,
Ere the Saxon began to hate.

Their voices were even and low.
Their eyes were level and straight.
There was neither sign nor show
When the Saxon began to hate.

It was not preached to the crowd.
It was not taught by the state.
No man spoke it aloud
When the Saxon began to hate.

It was not suddently bred.
It will not swiftly abate.
Through the chilled years ahead,
When Time shall count from the date
That the Saxon began to hate.

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## Nilgiri

@Desert Fox @T-72

A great summation of all those involved that deserve thanks and why there can be no auto-"healing" for those that engaged in filthy despicable unethical behaviour:






"If you cant learn from ethics, you will be made to learn from consequences." 

Great quote!

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## iPhone

Desert Fox said:


> Says the faggot who immigrated to America
> 
> Butt hurt much?


You keep talking about butt hurt and I'm the fag? lol 

I wasn't kidding about exploring yourself, dude. They've identified gay rages in homosexual men as the first steps in coming out. So, it fine if you're homo. you can come to terms with it.


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## Desert Fox

iPhone said:


> You keep talking


A faggot who immigrated to America has the audacity to call me White wannabe , lulz 

PS, let me know when you plan on leaving the White man's country and go back to Pakistan, i'll pay for your one way ticket

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## gambit

Beast said:


> Donald trump victory shows most American especially the white are racist.
> 
> @gambit and @C130 Both of you better watch out while living in US. Life will never be the same again. I can forsee a lot of backlash for non white americans.


Buddy, for all my yrs, I have experienced more racism outside the US than inside. In England, in continental Europe, in the ME, and in *YOUR CHINA*.

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## T-72



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## Desert Fox

Apparently having an independent opinion makes me a "White wannabe", and the irony of it all is that the person lobbing this accusation himself left his home country to reside in America, a country founded by White men who owned slaves  Hypocrisy much?

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## Beast

gambit said:


> Buddy, for all my yrs, I have experienced more racism outside the US than inside. In England, in continental Europe, in the ME, and in *YOUR CHINA*.


Now it will be worst. Vietnamese , black or whatever will be treated like dirt.


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## T-72

Beast said:


> Now it will be worst. Vietnamese , black or whatever will be treated like dirt.


Trump will roll tanks over black and brown people in 5th Ave

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## Beast

T-72 said:


> Trump will roll tanks over black and brown people in 5th Ave


Trump will ban the expanding of Muslim and other religion like Hindu , buddlhism. Trying to apply license to build more temple or mosque will be impossible. Only white men from Europe will be given green card.

Minority will be discriminated and left with dirt job. The supremacy of white man will be promoted. White gang hunting and beating up of other races will be tolerated while beating of whiteman will be swiftly deal with. Trump is elected to empower the white American and going back to the wild Wild West time.

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## KAL-EL

Beast said:


> Now it will be worst. Vietnamese , black or whatever will be treated like dirt.



And pray tell, just how will a president Trump accomplish this exactly?

Will he try for a constitutional amendment?

Will he declare this on Twitter? Therefore automatically making it a law without Congress and the states ratifying a constitutional amendment?

Or will he circumvent the Illuminati and do it another way?

"meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

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## Beast

KAL-EL said:


> He literally thinks on day one will banned in Japan and South Korea
> 
> 
> And pray tell, just how will a president Trump accomplish this exactly?
> 
> Will he try for a constitutional amendment?
> 
> Will he declare this on Twitter? Therefore automatically making it a law without Congress approval a constitutional amendment?
> 
> Or will he circumvent the Illuminati and do it another way?
> 
> "meet the new boss, same as the old boss"


He is the president. He will instructed the immigration department to discreetly execute the green card application plan and give vague excuse on rejection of non white while whiteman even Tom dick Harry can be easily approved.

Nowadays NYPD are already practicing such practice like swiftly shoot black on sight based on vague evident of criminal provocation. With trump in seat. It will be worst.

Trump will discreetly order depart or state to cancel application or banned expanding of non Christian religion based on vague explanation and terrorism charges. There is no black and white but vague explanation and many grey area control by trump. He is the president and he can do many things.

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## Nilgiri

KAL-EL said:


> And pray tell, just how will a president Trump accomplish this exactly?
> 
> Will he try for a constitutional amendment?
> 
> Will he declare this on Twitter? Therefore automatically making it a law without Congress and the states ratifying a constitutional amendment?
> 
> Or will he circumvent the Illuminati and do it another way?
> 
> "meet the new boss, same as the old boss"



Scuse the old chap, he's from a country that doesnt understand how a democracy functions.

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## flamer84

EgyptianAmerican said:


> It was hardly an ***-kicking. It was ridiculously close, and you shouldn't be boasting over a hard fought campaign. Show some respect.
> 
> _Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
> -Plato
> _


Meh,who knows how many illegals voted for that witch? (Who,thsnks to obama giving them driver licences can vote)

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## gambit

Beast said:


> Now it will be worst. Vietnamese , black or whatever will be treated like dirt.


Mainland Chinese who have been to America cannot help but laugh at Chinese like you.

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## LA se Karachi

flamer84 said:


> Meh,who knows how many illegals voted for that witch? (Who,thsnks to obama giving them driver licences can vote)




Virtually none. Having a driver's license does not alone give you the ability to vote.


----------



## Desert Fox

Beast said:


> Trump will ban the expanding of Muslim and other religion like Hindu , buddlhism. Trying to apply license to build more temple or mosque will be impossible. Only white men from Europe will be given green card.
> 
> Minority will be discriminated and left with dirt job. The supremacy of white man will be promoted. White gang hunting and beating up of other races will be tolerated while beating of whiteman will be swiftly deal with. Trump is elected to empower the white American and going back to the wild Wild West time.



Dude wtf did I just read  , clearly you been watching too much TYT.

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## flamer84

AUz said:


> LMAOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best of luck with your fantasy masturbations.




You think I waste my time photoshopping this ? Neah,just having fun with what's thrown out there nowadays.

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## ChineseTiger1986

KAL-EL said:


> You summed about it up quite well.
> 
> Some of the people here who think that there's going to be some super dramatic multi world changes are in for some utter disappointment.
> 
> "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"
> 
> Now with all that being said, I hope a president Trump can affect some change for good.



Well, I totally figure out the pattern of the US election, all POTUS will have the same presidency, not even Bernie Sanders would make an exception.

Trump and Hillary will do the same jobs, but he just beat her in a job interview.


----------



## mike2000 is back

Desert Fox said:


> Oh, okay. I assumed you were judging from some of your previous posts. My apologies. I've come across plenty of MB supporters here in the states and many of them preach one thing and do another. A self contradicting bunch I must say. I'm not sure if they're like that in Egypt.


In Egypt and even Syria they are a hard-line Islamic extremist party, they almost wiped out Coptic Christians for example when they took power in Egypt and wanted to implement their radical Islamic ideology in Egypt.http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...m-brotherhood-s-war-on-coptic-christians.html

Luckily the Egyptian people noticed this and rose up against them and their military toppled their radical leader. They and their Hamas terrorist group offshoot should be properly dealt with by Egyptian authorities and Israel, which I think they are doing a good job so far.


----------



## Beast

gambit said:


> Mainland Chinese who have been to America cannot help but laugh at Chinese like you.


looks like you are in emotional distress after trump wins? The fear inside you this minority American is obvious. You all dont belong to there. Trump will return America to the true white American. You Vietnamese American are extra.

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## gambit

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Well, I totally figure out the pattern of the US election, all POTUS will have the same presidency, not even Bernie Sanders would make an exception.
> 
> Trump and Hillary will do the same jobs, but he just beat her in a job interview.


That is the positive of the American 'check and balances' system, that no personality can dominate. A charismatic person can charm and persuade during campaign, but once in office, he will be restrained by the Constitution and various institutions of governance. Notice I said 'governance', not 'government'. Americans would rather have an inefficient system over the long run than an efficient system for the short. For the latter, the lure of dictatorship is too great. A government efficient in doing good can be efficient in doing evil. That is the belief.

For the Trump administration, even though Trump may enjoy Republican dominance in the Congress and that he ran as a Republican, that does not mean all Republicans will simply rubber stamp whatever he want. The Tea Party is hint that conservatives will not hesitate to go against party leadership in various issues if the issues strike them at the relevant moral level.



Beast said:


> looks like you are in emotional distress after trump wins? The fear inside you this minority American is obvious. You all dont belong to there. Trump will return America to the true white American. You Vietnamese American are extra.


You avoided the racism in China. Why ? You think I would be better off in China ? From my personal experience, I would be better off in the US than in your racist China. The sad part is that I have met enough of your fellow Chinese who lived long enough in America to admit it.


----------



## Beast

gambit said:


> That is the positive of the American 'check and balances' system, that no personality can dominate. A charismatic person can charm and persuade during campaign, but once in office, he will be restrained by the Constitution and various institutions of governance. Notice I said 'governance', not 'government'. Americans would rather have an inefficient system over the long run than an efficient system for the short. For the latter, the lure of dictatorship is too great. A government efficient in doing good can be efficient in doing evil. That is the belief.
> 
> For the Trump administration, even though Trump may enjoy Republican dominance in the Congress and that he ran as a Republican, that does not mean all Republicans will simply rubber stamp whatever he want. The Tea Party is hint that conservatives will not hesitate to go against party leadership in various issues if the issues strike them at the relevant moral level.
> 
> 
> You avoided the racism in China. Why ? You think I would be better off in China ? From my personal experience, I would be better off in the US than in your racist China. The sad part is that I have met enough of your fellow Chinese who lived long enough in America to admit it.


When did I ever avoid that? If any Chinese felt discriminated, they can come back to China. Same as you who can go back to Vietnam


----------



## Penguin

DJ_Viper said:


>


Sore looser.



Desert Fox said:


> Apparently having an independent opinion makes me a "White wannabe", and the irony of it all is that the person lobbing this accusation himself left his home country to reside in America, a country founded by White men who owned slaves  Hypocrisy much?


Independent!?!?! 



Beast said:


> *He is the president.* He will instructed the immigration department to discreetly execute the green card application plan and give vague excuse on rejection of non white while whiteman even Tom dick Harry can be easily approved.
> 
> Nowadays NYPD are already practicing such practice like swiftly shoot black on sight based on vague evident of criminal provocation. With trump in seat. It will be worst.
> 
> Trump will discreetly order depart or state to cancel application or banned expanding of non Christian religion based on vague explanation and terrorism charges. There is no black and white but vague explanation and many grey area control by trump. He is the president and he can do many things.


No, he is the President-elect. Only come January 20, 2017, when he is sworn in, will he actually become the President. 

President-elect is the title used for an incoming president of the United States in the period between the general election on Election Day in November and noon Eastern Standard Time on Inauguration Day, January 20, during which the president-elect is not in office yet.


* President-elect Trump due to appear in court at trial starting later this month*
The Republican nominee will have to juggle his legal headaches as he prepares for the White House.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-court-university-231082

*Trump due in court before Oval Office*
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-lawsuit-idUSKBN1343KV

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## Immortan.Joe

T-72 said:


> lets see, Trump and Duterte should be interesting..
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-reaction-philippines-idUSKBN13412N



Duterte must be pissing his pants. He knows that Trump is temperamental enough that if he calls him a 'son of wh0re' , he would bring Freedom and Democracy to Philippines.

Duterte would need to watch is mouth till Trump is in office.


----------



## forsigmar

Penguin said:


> Sore looser.
> 
> 
> Independent!?!?!
> 
> 
> No, he is the President-elect. Only come January 20, 2017, when he is sworn in, will he actually become the President.
> 
> President-elect is the title used for an incoming president of the United States in the period between the general election on Election Day in November and noon Eastern Standard Time on Inauguration Day, January 20, during which the president-elect is not in office yet.
> 
> 
> * President-elect Trump due to appear in court at trial starting later this month*
> The Republican nominee will have to juggle his legal headaches as he prepares for the White House.
> http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-court-university-231082
> 
> *Trump due in court before Oval Office*
> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-lawsuit-idUSKBN1343KV


All his legal problems will go away after getting into office, you can't sue a sitting president due to sovereignty. Will have to wait 4-8 years


----------



## Immortan.Joe

AUz said:


> On cultural front (more important)..left still won last night with major states legalizing Marijuana and what not. Hopefully Trump is a good president and doesnt start needless wars like Bush did.



Left ,in USA, lost on all fronts big time.

It is not just that Trump has been elected as president; Right-wing has won control of Senate and Congress, and since there are three Supreme court opening this year, it ensure that there would be conservative majority in USA's supreme court for coming 2-3 decades. 

There is no opposition left for right wingers in USA, except that of media which has been heavily discredited.


----------



## maximuswarrior

Great Sachin said:


> Abki bar Modi sarkar....Hindu voted and Modi won
> Abki bar Cameron sarkar....Hindu voted and Cameron won
> Abki bar Trump sarkar....Hindu voted and Trump won
> 
> Hilerry never said ....Abki bar Hilary sarkar ...so she lost
> 
> Just fun



Ho ja mantar shantar Trump sarkaar LMAO LMAO Hindu shupar pawar!!!

Has the Mexican wall been built yet? Have the Muslims been banned yet? I'm still waiting. A promise is a promise.



Immortan.Joe said:


> Duterte must be pissing his pants. He knows that Trump is temperamental enough that if he calls him a 'son of wh0re' , he would bring Freedom and Democracy to Philippines.
> 
> Duterte would need to watch is mouth till Trump is in office.



LOL In your dreams. Duterte is going to say whatever is on his mind. What is orange head going to do? Grab Duterte by his genitals? LMAO


----------



## Penguin

forsigmar said:


> All his legal problems will go away after getting into office, you can't sue a sitting president due to sovereignty. Will have to wait 4-8 years


He won't be a sitting president untill January 20th 2017.

A hearing in federal court in San Diego is set for Thursday, November 10th 2016, and the trial is scheduled to begin on November 28th, 2016.

And, as explained in the articles I referenced:

"While presidents enjoy immunity from lawsuits arising from their official duties, the U.S. Supreme Court has held that this shield does not extend to acts alleged to have taken place prior to taking office. The 1997 ruling came in the sexual harassment lawsuit filed against President Bill Clinton by Paula Jones, which was settled before it went to trial. Lawyers said they could think of no similar situation like the one now involving Trump."
Reuters

"Pending suits involving Trump’s businesses could also head to trial after he’s in the White House. In a 1997 case involving President Bill Clinton and a woman suing him for sexual harassment, Paula Jones, the Supreme Court ruled that a sitting president is not immune from litigation over actions taken before he took office.

The high court did say deference to the president in terms of scheduling would be appropriate, though not a deferral until he leaves office."
Politico

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## flamer84

LA se Karachi said:


> Virtually none. Having a driver's license does not alone give you the ability to vote.


Rigging voting registry is simple when they have drivers license.Only God knows how many of these peole were hearded to vote for that witch,probably in their hundreds of thousands,atleast.

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## Desert Fox

T-72 said:


>


TYT morons were having an epic fit when it became clear Trump was the winner. God do i enjoy Cenk's meltdowns, (they're almost as epic as Alex Jone's meltdowns). Man, this was one hell of an election year.

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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> TYT morons were having an epic fit when it became clear Trump was the winner. God do i enjoy Cenk's meltdowns, (they're almost as epic as Alex Jone's meltdowns). Man, this was one hell of an election year.

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## flamer84

T-72 said:


>


Hilarious,the as when Alex Jones took a dump on the young turd Cenk,who,is also,despite his bleeding liberal heart,an Armenian genocide denier.I guess it s ok to be a nationalist for Turkey but a leftist for the US.

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## T-72

flamer84 said:


> Hilarious,the as when Alex Jones took a dump on the young turd Cenk,who,is also,despite his bleeding liberal heart,an Armenian genocide denier.I guess it s ok to be a nationalist for Turkey but a leftist for the US.


hate to defend them, but that's not true





anyway, I wont be surprised if Cenk himself does deny it, man's a total hypocrite with no sense of fairness.




--------------------------------

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## forsigmar

Penguin said:


> He won't be a sitting president untill January 20th 2017.
> 
> A hearing in federal court in San Diego is set for Thursday, November 10th 2016, and the trial is scheduled to begin on November 28th, 2016.
> 
> And, as explained in the articles I referenced:
> 
> "While presidents enjoy immunity from lawsuits arising from their official duties, the U.S. Supreme Court has held that this shield does not extend to acts alleged to have taken place prior to taking office. The 1997 ruling came in the sexual harassment lawsuit filed against President Bill Clinton by Paula Jones, which was settled before it went to trial. Lawyers said they could think of no similar situation like the one now involving Trump."
> Reuters
> 
> "Pending suits involving Trump’s businesses could also head to trial after he’s in the White House. In a 1997 case involving President Bill Clinton and a woman suing him for sexual harassment, Paula Jones, the Supreme Court ruled that a sitting president is not immune from litigation over actions taken before he took office.
> 
> The high court did say deference to the president in terms of scheduling would be appropriate, though not a deferral until he leaves office."
> Politico


Trump has thousands of lawsuits, once he picks a favorable Supreme court justice, the court may change its decision .

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## RabzonKhan

I'm not surprised, that was very much expected.



*Islamic extremists celebrate Trump victory: 'US struck with disaster at the hands of their own voters'*

BY LAURA BULT 
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
November 10, 2016

Islamic extremists are celebrating Donald Trump's shocking victory this week, claiming the election outcome proves half of Americans' anti-Muslim sentiment, according to a group monitoring jihadism.

Islamic terrorist organizations including Al Qaeda, the Islamic State and the Taliban are touting Trump's stunning win as a signal of the country’s downfall, according to reports in SITE Intelligence Group cited by USA Today.

“Pro #AQ (Al Qaeda) accounts: ‘On 9-11 US struck w disaster at the hands of AQ. On 11-9, US struck with disaster at the hands of their own voters,” wrote SITE founder Rita Katz on Twitter.

Katz published a series of memes posted by jihadist groups taunting the President-elect to make due on his promises of military intervention in the Middle East.

One meme shows an image of red boxing gloves and the words “Bring it on, Donald. The mujahideen are ready.” The “mujahideen” refers to a coaltion of jihadists.

Another image shows Trump clutching an American flag with a smirk on his face, with the words “Don’t try to hide, Donald. The mujahideen are ready.”

Trump focused a significant part of his campaign message on defeating ISIS, pledging to assign generals to come up with a plan to defeat the terrorist group in his first 30 days in office.

“I’m going to bomb the s--t out of them,” Trump said a year ago today.

*Trump also vowed during his bid for the presidency to ban all Muslim immigration and to surveil Muslim Americans and their mosques.

Katz reports that jihadists preferred Trump to Clinton because he supposedly shed light on how half of the country feels toward Muslims.

“Pro #ISIS & #Jihadis say they ‘prefer #Trump to #Clinton because he is ‘telling Muslims what half of America thinks of them,” she tweeted.*

Katz also reported that the Taliban is urging the President-elect to withdraw U.S. forces from the Taliban.

Domestic extremists are also rejoicing in a Trump win.

Former Klu Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke tweeted early Wednesday that “this is one of the most exciting nights of my life.”

*“Make no mistake about it, our people have played a HUGE role in electing Trump!," Duke posted to Twitter.*

Trump was condemned during his campaign for not refuting his support among white supremacists, most notably when it came from Duke. *Link*

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## T-72

RabzonKhan said:


> I'm not surprised, that was very much expected.
> 
> 
> 
> *Islamic extremists celebrate Trump victory: 'US struck with disaster at the hands of their own voters'*
> 
> BY LAURA BULT
> NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
> November 10, 2016
> 
> Islamic extremists are celebrating Donald Trump's shocking victory this week, claiming the election outcome proves half of Americans' anti-Muslim sentiment, according to a group monitoring jihadism.
> 
> Islamic terrorist organizations including Al Qaeda, the Islamic State and the Taliban are touting Trump's stunning win as a signal of the country’s downfall, according to reports in SITE Intelligence Group cited by USA Today.
> 
> “Pro #AQ (Al Qaeda) accounts: ‘On 9-11 US struck w disaster at the hands of AQ. On 11-9, US struck with disaster at the hands of their own voters,” wrote SITE founder Rita Katz on Twitter.
> 
> Katz published a series of memes posted by jihadist groups taunting the President-elect to make due on his promises of military intervention in the Middle East.
> 
> One meme shows an image of red boxing gloves and the words “Bring it on, Donald. The mujahideen are ready.” The “mujahideen” refers to a coaltion of jihadists.
> 
> Another image shows Trump clutching an American flag with a smirk on his face, with the words “Don’t try to hide, Donald. The mujahideen are ready.”
> 
> Trump focused a significant part of his campaign message on defeating ISIS, pledging to assign generals to come up with a plan to defeat the terrorist group in his first 30 days in office.
> 
> “I’m going to bomb the s--t out of them,” Trump said a year ago today.
> 
> *Trump also vowed during his bid for the presidency to ban all Muslim immigration and to surveil Muslim Americans and their mosques.
> 
> Katz reports that jihadists preferred Trump to Clinton because he supposedly shed light on how half of the country feels toward Muslims.
> 
> “Pro #ISIS & #Jihadis say they ‘prefer #Trump to #Clinton because he is ‘telling Muslims what half of America thinks of them,” she tweeted.*
> 
> Katz also reported that the Taliban is urging the President-elect to withdraw U.S. forces from the Taliban.
> 
> Domestic extremists are also rejoicing in a Trump win.
> 
> Former Klu Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke tweeted early Wednesday that “this is one of the most exciting nights of my life.”
> 
> *“Make no mistake about it, our people have played a HUGE role in electing Trump!," Duke posted to Twitter.*
> 
> Trump was condemned during his campaign for not refuting his support among white supremacists, most notably when it came from Duke. *Link*


CTR are still active ? go home, you people, Mr Trump is already in the white house right now in a meeting with President Obama 














RabzonKhan said:


> NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

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## RabzonKhan

T-72 said:


> CTR are still active ? go home, you people,


An Indian is going to tell me to go home, do I have to remind you that America is my home.


----------



## T-72

they discussed "some of the high flying assets as well as some of the tremendous achievements"  

Trump's been getting the highest level daily intel over the last 24 hours, same briefing Obama gets, maybe they have new satellite imagery of hostile Russian and Chinese formations ready to annex moar land from their smaller neighbours, or is crazy Kim readying a nuclear salvo to destroy evil capitalist Japan.. 

it begins ! 



RabzonKhan said:


> An Indian is going to tell me to go home, do I have to remind you that America is my home.


for someone living in America, I'd have expected you to know what "go home" meant.

also, remember this ? I made it for you a long time ago

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## RabzonKhan

T-72 said:


> for someone living in America, I'd have expected you to know what "go home" meant.
> 
> also, remember this ? I made it for you a long time ago
> 
> View attachment 350905


Okay, little misunderstanding there. It's you, I didn't realize, did you change your name?

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## T-72

cant see anything, maybe that's just as well ? 



RabzonKhan said:


> Okay, little misunderstanding there. It's you, I didn't realize, did you change your name?


just meant a little "go home, you're drunk" type thing, nothing mean and KKK 

yes, originally with an M1 to this name, and my backup account was cbu105, which was also mysteriously banned the same time around a month ago for some reason.

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> *
> “Pro #ISIS & #Jihadis say they ‘prefer #Trump to #Clinton because he is ‘telling Muslims what half of America thinks of them,” she tweeted.*


Whatta bunch of ballonie. We all know who Omar Mateen's father was rooting for, and lets not forget that Hillary received more than $100,000,000 in donations from Saudi Arabia and other Arab states, the largest sponsors of terrorist organizations like ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Al-Nusra.

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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> Whatta bunch of ballonie. We all know who Omar Mateen's father was rooting for, and lets not forget that Hillary received more than $100,000,000 in donations from Saudi Arabia and other Arab states, the largest sponsors of terrorist organizations like ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Al-Nusra.
> 
> View attachment 350917
> 
> 
> View attachment 350918
> 
> View attachment 350919
> 
> View attachment 350920​


honestly, this was the biggest reason why I felt that Americans have to reject the status quo and go for Trump, this unholy alliance between the fountainhead of all global terror, that is the Saudi clergy, and freedom lovin' 'murrica, 

"what the hell is going on" 





President Trump in 2011 stumping for loser Romnoy 









Mott Romnoy









Romnoy lost big league !

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## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> Whatta bunch of ballonie. We all know who Omar Mateen's father was rooting for, and lets not forget that Hillary received more than $100,000,000 in donations from Saudi Arabia and other Arab states, the largest sponsors of terrorist organizations like ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Al-Nusra.


Look, we like it or not, but all the countries that you mentioned are considered United States allies in the Middle East, and there is a very good possibility that they will be our friends under president Trump.

Now I should be the last person to defend Saudi Arabia, but the fact is, Saudi government does not "sponsor" or fund ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Al-Nusra, but yes, Saudi citizens do.

@T-72, you think Trump is anti-Saudi Arabia, actually, he's more anti-Iranian.

In an interview to CNN, Trump had no problem if Saudi Arabia gets nuclear weapons.






TRUMP: At some point we have to say, you know what, we're better off if Japan protects itself against this maniac in North Korea, we're better off, frankly, if South Korea is going to start to protect itself, we have…

*COOPER: Saudi Arabia, nuclear weapons?*

*TRUMP: Saudi Arabia, absolutely.*

COOPER: You would be fine with them having nuclear weapons?

TRUMP: No, not nuclear weapons, but they have to protect themselves or they have to pay us.

Here's the thing, with Japan, they have to pay us or we have to let them protect themselves.

*COOPER: * So if you said, Japan, yes, it's fine, you get nuclear weapons, South Korea, you as well, *and Saudi Arabia says we want them, too?*

*TRUMP: Can I be honest with you? It's going to happen, anyway. It's going to happen anyway. It's only a question of time.* They're going to start having them or we have to get rid of them entirely.

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## F-22Raptor

In just two an a half years the campaign for the 2020 election begins in earnest. There's lots of support for Michelle Obama on social media.


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## T-72

RabzonKhan said:


> @T-72, you think Trump is anti-Saudi Arabia..


no I don't, I know it's almost next to impossible because the al Sauds can regulate oil production and crash the world economy anytime they want.

I also know any rapprochement or detente with Russia etc will involve very difficult negotiations and might not work out and who knows, stuff might even get worse but Trump is a really smart guy, we should all thank god he'll make those calls now, not a crazy dying of many illnesses, (both mental and physical) evil witch.



F-22Raptor said:


> In just two an a half years the campaign for the 2020 election begins in earnest. There's lots of support for Michelle Obama on social media.


planning a comeback already ?

1999 - 2016 wasn't enough time for people to forget, the US electorate clearly does not like dynasties.


----------



## F-22Raptor

T-72 said:


> no I don't, I know it's almost next to impossible because the al Sauds can regulate oil production and crash the world economy anytime they want.
> 
> I also know any rapprochement or detente with Russia etc will involve very difficult negotiations and might not work out and who knows, stuff might even get worse but Trump is a really smart guy, we should all thank god he'll make those calls now, not a crazy dying of many illnesses, (both mental and physical) evil witch.
> 
> 
> planning a comeback already ?
> 
> 1999 - 2016 wasn't enough time for people to forget, the US electorate clearly does not like dynasties.


She may not run, but she's extremely popular and doesn't have the baggage Hillary did.


----------



## ultron

F-22Raptor said:


> In just two an a half years the campaign for the 2020 election begins in earnest. There's lots of support for Michelle Obama on social media.




What is Michelle Obama's credentials? She has never held any public office and has no political experience. Barack Obama was a senator when he started running in 2007.

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## EgyptianAmerican

ultron said:


> What is Michelle Obama's credentials? She has never held any public office and has no political experience. Barack Obama was a senator when he started running in 2007.



What is Trump's credentials? He has held no public office and has no political experience but he still got elected. As long as you meet the basic requirements you're good.

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## ultron

EgyptianAmerican said:


> What is Trump's credentials? He has held no public office and has no political experience but he still got elected. As long as you meet the basic requirements you're good.




Billionaire businessman, famed TV celebrity having a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, decades of TV performances, created thousands of jobs with one of the most famed companies in the world. Michelle Obama has far less fame compared to Donald Trump.

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## EgyptianAmerican

ultron said:


> Billionaire businessman, famed TV star with a Hollywood star, decades of TV performance.



That is not public office or political experience unlike Trump,Michelle arguably has been in politics longer then Trump and has seen how it works and the kind of problems that are brought up. Can you say the same for trump? Not really.


----------



## ultron

EgyptianAmerican said:


> That is not public office or political experience unlike Trump,Michelle arguably has been in politics longer then Trump and has seen how it works and the kind of problems that are brought up. Can you say the same for trump? Not really.




Michelle Obama has never been in politics. Being first lady is not political experience.


----------



## EgyptianAmerican

ultron said:


> Michelle Obama has never been in politics. Being first lady is not political experience.



Really? Please tell me you are kidding?


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## ultron

EgyptianAmerican said:


> Really? Please tell me you are kidding?




First lady is not a public office.


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## EgyptianAmerican

ultron said:


> First lady is not a public office.



I know this but she has Political experience.


----------



## ultron

EgyptianAmerican said:


> I know this but she has Political experience.




Experience in what? She has never been involved in politics other than making some speeches.

Michelle Obama is not half white like Barack Obama is. Whites won't vote for her and she'll never get elected if she runs. Blacks don't have the numbers to elect someone who is fully black.


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## EgyptianAmerican

ultron said:


> Experience in what? She has never been involved in politics other than making some speeches.
> 
> Michelle Obama is not half white like Barack Obama is. Whites won't vote for her and she'll never get elected if she runs. Blacks don't have the numbers to elect someone who is fully black.



Are you so dumb to think the first lady does not talk and work with her husband in Politics? Both have to coordinate, the first lady is usually informed about events going on in Poltics and her husband briefs her. Thats a heck of a lot more experience then trump.

Wow talk about a racist, people did not vote for Obama for being half-white. He was voted for having a better policy then his rival.


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## ultron

EgyptianAmerican said:


> Wow talk about a racist, people did not vote for Obama for being half-white. He was voted for having a better policy then his rival.




Whites voted for him in 2008 a lot more than they did in 2012. Obama won in 2008 with a 7.2% margin. This fell to less than 4% in 2012. He would have lost if he were able to run again in 2016. Whites voted for him to wash them of white guilt.


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## EgyptianAmerican

ultron said:


> Whites voted for him in 2008 a lot more than they did in 2012. Obama won in 2008 with a 7.2% margin. This fell to less than 4% in 2012. He would have lost if he were able to run again in 2016. Whites voted for him to wash them of white guilt.




Unlikely, Just because the margin of victory changes does not mean he was getting voted for his half-whiteness. People he had saw what he did in the first term and less people voted for him. Not because he was half-white, Racist dumbass.

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## Solomon2

ultron said:


> Whites voted for him in 2008 a lot more than they did in 2012. Obama won in 2008 with a 7.2% margin. This fell to less than 4% in 2012. He would have lost if he were able to run again in 2016. Whites voted for him to wash them of white guilt.


If it was just "white guilt" then why didn't the U.S. support Republican Alan Keyes back in 2008 over Democratic B.O. ?

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## ultron

Solomon2 said:


> If it was just "white guilt" then why didn't the U.S. support Republican Alan Keyes back in 2008 over Democratic B.O. ?




Whites won't vote for someone who is not half white.


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## Solomon2

ultron said:


> Whites won't vote for someone who is not half white.


Never heard that one before. Don't believe it, either.

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## boomslang

xenon54 said:


> It always baffled me why no 3rd party is able to make it into the race in US.



A lot of the time they are outright kooks.



ultron said:


> Whites won't vote for someone who is not half white.




I would vote for Condoleeza Rice in a heartbeat and I don't think there's a speck of white there. She's almost like deep space.


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## xenon54 out

boomslang said:


> A lot of the time they are outright kooks.


Would they have a chance even if they had a good candidate? The thing is it appears to us that in every election only republican and democrat candidates voices reach the masses while 3rd party candidates have no where near as much ressources as those two.


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## ultron

boomslang said:


> I would vote for Condoleeza Rice in a heartbeat and I don't think there's a speck of white there. She's almost like deep space.




Malik Obama is 100% black. Condolezza Rice is not.


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## boomslang

ultron said:


> Whites voted for him in 2008 a lot more than they did in 2012. Obama won in 2008 with a 7.2% margin. This fell to less than 4% in 2012. He would have lost if he were able to run again in 2016. Whites voted for him to wash them of white guilt.




I'm white, I didn't vote for Obama and I don't feel guilty.



ultron said:


> Malik Obama is 100% black. Condolezza Rice is not.



And she's not half white.


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## ultron

boomslang said:


> And she's not half white.




Somewhere between 50% to 60%, maybe even more. She's not blacker than Barack Obama.


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## boomslang

ultron said:


> Somewhere between 50% to 60%, maybe even more. She's not blacker than Barack Obama.




According to Wiki...

...Rice discovered on the PBS series _Finding Your Roots_[7] that she is of 51% African, 40% European, and 9% Asian or Native American genetic descent, while her mtDNA is traced back to the Tikar people of Cameroon.[8] Rice grew up in the Titusville[9] neighborhood of Birmingham, and then Tuscaloosa, Alabama, at a time when the South was racially segregated....

We're splitting hairs here. I actually believe that you are what your mom was. She fed you and carried you inside her body for 9 months while the old man just dropped his spunk and split.

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## ultron

boomslang said:


> ...Rice discovered on the PBS series _Finding Your Roots_[7] that she is of 51% African, 40% European, and 9% Asian or Native American genetic descent




bullshit


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## boomslang

ultron said:


> bullshit



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!! Hey, that's what it says. I also heard that she likes to play Led Zeppelin on the piano. And according to my theory, Obama would be a pretty dark white dude.



AUz said:


> Getting my tickets for Pakistan I guess
> 
> To be fair, it was expected that he might win (although everybody thought Hilary as favorite). What REALLY surprised me was that he won Pennsylvania!! Like holy shit!! His message resonated in the rust belt so his victory there wasn't as surprising. But a state like Pennsylvania. Crazy.
> 
> I live in Pennsylvania. Before the election there were a lot of people who weren't admitting to voting for Trump. That's why polls sucked. Then they just sprung on election day.
> 
> 
> 
> So if Trump doesn't stop immigration, and does half Islamic immigration in the US, and things keep running the way they are with some changes off course...wouldn't that be a total defeat for alt-right camp hoping to reverse the trends, save their cultures, and blah blah blah



We'll roll them dice. Adios, chief.


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## ultron

boomslang said:


> And according to my theory, Obama would be a pretty dark white dude.




Barack Obama has black hair. Condoleezza Rice is white enough to have European hair.


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## jha

I really admire this new generation leading TRUMP PROTEST..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796597718751838208
Hillary knows the reason behind her loss...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796613149759672320

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## boomslang

ultron said:


> ... Condoleezza Rice is white enough to have European hair.



Black chicks straighten their hair. I can't believe we're having this conversation.


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## jha

What a protest... Power to them..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796590387766984704

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## Mahmoud_EGY

jha said:


> What a protest... Power to them..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796590387766984704


wtf this is not normal there is something very wrong with these idiots

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## T-72

jha said:


> What a protest... Power to them..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796590387766984704


lmao, America's epic rejection of feminism is probably the best thing to come out of this election so far.

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## AUz

Immortan.Joe said:


> Left ,in USA, lost on all fronts big time.
> 
> It is not just that Trump has been elected as president; Right-wing has won control of Senate and Congress, and since there are three Supreme court opening this year, it ensure that there would be conservative majority in USA's supreme court for coming 2-3 decades.
> 
> There is no opposition left for right wingers in USA, except that of media which has been heavily discredited.



LOL.
Liberal worldview already won over US post 1990's. Whether it's gay rights, abortions, women issues, birth control, sex outside of marriage, or gay marriage...left has won on ALL social and cultural issues...with Christianity becoming a joke in US and conservative lifestyle dwindling to the peripheries of society. Irreligious liberal hedonism is MAINSTREAM culture of the US now...whether in tv shows,movies, songs, dressing, young people's lifestyles and so on.

You are only talking about victory in one political elections. It means nothing as lefts victory is permanent and the change to the American culture and outlook is irreversible.

The US has already transformed into a multiracial, multicultural diverse country with "whites" being in minority amongst US highschool population. That means that the demographic future with whites being minority in the country is INEVITABLE. Whites will still be the largest single minority group though as US turns into a minority majority country.

@flamer84 Few insights for you as well. Trumps victory means a lot of things, but it's doesn't mean the end of immigration, reversible of demographic trends, and especially it doesn't mean "Islam-less" Europe or Western world in general. 

By the time Trump ends his first term, there would be more than 2 billion Muslims worldwide...with Islam more global than ever and Muslim countries such as Turkey being 5th largest economy of Europe, surpassing Spain comprehensively. Unless offcourse you are counting on "Operation Eurabia" and "re conquest of Constantiople"


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Look, we like it or not, but all the countries that you mentioned are considered United States allies in the Middle East, and there is a very good possibility that they will be our friends under president Trump.



Of course, i'm not expecting Trump to pull the plug on America's relations with these Arab countries, however you are aware that there is a difference between being an "ally" and directly interfering in another country's internal politics by bribing it's politicians with huge sums of money in *order to gain political favors*.

And finally, the issue is with Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (the public and private stance), *for someone who claims to champion women's rights she gladly takes money from countries where beheading and lashing women is legal by law*  .



RabzonKhan said:


> Now I should be the last person to defend Saudi Arabia, but the fact is, Saudi government does not "sponsor" or fund ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Al-Nusra, but yes, Saudi citizens do.


No my friend,* the Saudi government is neck deep* in funding Hillary's "moderate" terrorists in Syria: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/w...audi-money-to-support-syrian-rebels.html?_r=0

Trump's approach to this whole Syrian crisis is a common sense, realistic approach: Make the filthy rich Arabs fund refugee safe zones in Syria instead of dumping their mess into Western countries. Time for the pathetic "Ummah" to take care of its own people for a change.

*Saudi Tent City With Capacity To House Half A Million People, yet Saudi Arabia Refuses To Take In A Single Syrian Refugee*​






AUz said:


> LOL.
> Liberal worldview already won over US post 1990's. Whether it's gay rights, abortions, women issues, birth control, sex outside of marriage, or gay marriage...left has won on ALL social and cultural issues...with Christianity becoming a joke in US and conservative lifestyle dwindling to the peripheries of society. Irreligious liberal hedonism is MAINSTREAM culture of the US now...whether in tv shows,movies, songs, dressing, young people's lifestyles and so on.
> 
> You are only talking about victory in one political elections. It means nothing as lefts victory is permanent and the change to the American culture and outlook is irreversible.
> 
> The US has already transformed into a multiracial, multicultural diverse country with "whites" being in minority amongst US highschool population. That means that the demographic future with whites being minority in the country is INEVITABLE. Whites will still be the largest single minority group though as US turns into a minority majority country.
> 
> @flamer84 Few insights for you as well. Trumps victory means a lot of things, but it's doesn't mean the end of immigration, reversible of demographic trends, and especially it doesn't mean "Islam-less" Europe or Western world in general.
> 
> By the time Trump ends his first term, there would be more than 2 billion Muslims worldwide...with Islam more global than ever and Muslim countries such as Turkey being 5th largest economy of Europe, surpassing Spain comprehensively. Unless offcourse you are counting on "Operation Eurabia" and "re conquest of Constantiople"



And then people wonder why there is rising Islamophobia in the West. Keep gloating, people like you are what makes Trump happen.




AUz said:


> By the time Trump ends his first term, there would be more than 2 billion Muslims worldwide


1.6 Billion Muslims and they amount to nothing. 

*Reality of the Muslim world today: 1/3 is dominated by Uncle Sam, 1/3 is dominated by Russia, and 1/3 is dominated by China. Truly pathetic. *


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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> And then people wonder why there is rising Islamophobia in the West. Keep gloating, people like you are what makes Trump happen.


. 

guy is in a lot of threads and always gloating about the dwindling number of practicing Christians and empty pews in Churches all over the west, and how Islam is all set to take over. Not going to get a lot of goodwill that way.

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## T-72




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## flamer84

AUz said:


> LOL.
> Liberal worldview already won over US post 1990's. Whether it's gay rights, abortions, women issues, birth control, sex outside of marriage, or gay marriage...left has won on ALL social and cultural issues...with Christianity becoming a joke in US and conservative lifestyle dwindling to the peripheries of society. Irreligious liberal hedonism is MAINSTREAM culture of the US now...whether in tv shows,movies, songs, dressing, young people's lifestyles and so on.
> 
> You are only talking about victory in one political elections. It means nothing as lefts victory is permanent and the change to the American culture and outlook is irreversible.
> 
> The US has already transformed into a multiracial, multicultural diverse country with "whites" being in minority amongst US highschool population. That means that the demographic future with whites being minority in the country is INEVITABLE. Whites will still be the largest single minority group though as US turns into a minority majority country.
> 
> @flamer84 Few insights for you as well. Trumps victory means a lot of things, but it's doesn't mean the end of immigration, reversible of demographic trends, and especially it doesn't mean "Islam-less" Europe or Western world in general.
> 
> By the time Trump ends his first term, there would be more than 2 billion Muslims worldwide...with Islam more global than ever and Muslim countries such as Turkey being 5th largest economy of Europe, surpassing Spain comprehensively. Unless offcourse you are counting on "Operation Eurabia" and "re conquest of Constantiople"




Nope,by the end of Trump's first term Turkish economy will be nowhere near Spain's.By 2021 Spain is projected at 1.476 trillion $ while Turkey will be at 985 billion $.That's a big difference

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft...br=1&pr1.x=55&pr1.y=12&c=186&s=NGDPD&grp=0&a=

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft...1.x=66&pr1.y=9&c=174,184,136&s=NGDPD&grp=0&a=

Also,being a consumption driven economy,with investors loosing faith,Turkey's economy is heading for rough times in the coming years.


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## Gothic

This picture pretty much sums it up






the situation in america i mean


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## T-Rex

Gothic said:


> This picture pretty much sums it up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the situation in america i mean


*
You got that right, yet may Iranians just like their indian friends were praying for this. Their prayers have been answered and here's the picture in the US now:*

*The foul stench of fascism in the US*
*"White America may be shocked by the election of Donald Trump. but black and brown America smelt it coming."*







Supporters of Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump rally in front of the White House on November 9, 2016 [Joshua Roberts/Reuters]
*By*
*John Metta*




@JohnMetta

John Metta is a writer on racial issues in the US.

Throughout this summer and autumn, I have interviewed fellow minorities, asking them about their feelings and experiences regarding this presidential election. In all of these interviews, one thing was clear: We knew this was coming.

To some of us, it hung like a foul smell in the air. The acrid stench that generations before somehow learned to live with, though it choked them. Many of us coughed and spluttered when that suffocating air filled our lungs. Some of us cried out in warning.

But when those of us who spoke up were heard at all, we were greeted with disbelief, or with laughter. Like some others, I wrote  about that laughter.

We were given the assurance that yes, there were some for whom that acrid stench was a breath of fresh air, but those foolish people were few and unimportant. We were told the smell would go away on its own. It went nowhere. It lingered. And it got stronger.

 READ MORE: Inside Owsley - America's poorest white county 

And for some of us, it was more than a smell. For some unlucky ones such as Kozen Sampson, it became a physical assault.

In February, Kozen parked his car in my beloved town of Hood River, Oregon, to take his dog for a walk. As Kozen told the town's newspaper, "I started to get out of the car, and heard someone yell, 'Hey,' … The car door smacked my head and then my head hit the door frame … I lost part of my memory for about 15 minutes."

When news of the assault hit our small town, it shocked us all. We had a hard time believing it, especially when Kozen reported that the only other words he heard were "F****** Muslim." Kozen, you see, is not a Muslim, he is a Buddhist monk and, in typical Buddhist monk fashion, his response was filled with compassion.

"I am happy it happened to me and not to a Muslim," he said.

*'I can't feel safe in a third of my own country' *
In my church, we spoke at length about the assault and what it meant. By February, we had already seen that racism and white nationalism were on the rise. The fact that an innocent Buddhist monk was attacked at all was shocking, but that he was attacked for being something he wasn't, for being nothing more than "probably not white" was what really smelled.

Still, my town assumed it was isolated. We assumed there was a small minority of people filled with hate.
We assumed that the smell would go away on its own.

For months, news stories abounded about white people verbally or physically attacking minorities, LGBT people, and people with disabilities. Still, many people - mostly white allies - thought that it was rare. Not something to worry about.

Miguel Carlos didn't believe that for a minute.

Miguel is a black designer who was living in Philadelphia in July, but was returning to his native San Francisco. "My white girlfriend and I are moving back to California this summer," he told me then.

I was jokingly worried about being 'a big, opinionated negro' in the south before this summer. But now? It's untenable

Miguel Carlos, designer

"We had originally planned to drive across the country and stop in Atlanta, New Orleans, Austin, and Phoenix. Needless to say, we're not doing that any more." Miguel and his girlfriend took an plane instead. Too many stories of white backlash attacks in too many disparate places made them cancel their trip.

"I was jokingly worried about being 'a big, opinionated negro' in the south before this summer," he said. "But now? It's untenable. It's incredibly sad that in 2016, I can't feel safe in a third of my own country."

Miguel is not alone. By spring, many minority people in America had already changed their behaviour and outlook. Marina (name changed), an Asian artist from Los Angeles, began to avoid eye contact with people on the metro when someone looked at her and said, "Chinese people are so filthy".

"These experiences with remarks, actions and violence have existed before but haven't gotten the attention they're getting now. Also, social media makes sharing these experiences easier than ever before, so things I've encountered I've kept to myself, but with Facebook and Twitter I'm talking about it."

Talking with people throughout the summer, I saw this pattern repeated. Minority people of various ethnic, religious, and racial groups were all doing the same things.

They were talking about the foul smell in the air, pointing out the real danger to anyone who would listen, and they were all being more cautious around white people. Many of them changed their behaviour in small, subtle ways. "I wear headphones more at work now," said Deborah (name changed), a white lesbian woman who wants to remain anonymous for fear of a backlash at the legal practice where she works outside Portland, Oregon.

"Because I just want to avoid the chance of getting into 'that interaction' again."

"That interaction" was being verbally assaulted and called "evil" because she spoke about wanting to marry her partner. Even in Portland, national symbol of quirkiness, a lesbian woman felt afraid to argue for her right to a marriage that the state had already given her.

OPINION: Racism in the US - the melting pot is boiling 

William James, a black writer and actor in Orlando, Florida, who did not want his real name used, had a somewhat similar take on avoiding arguments when he talked about the police. "The goal is not to win the argument," he told me. "The goal is to get home alive." William happens to be 4ft tall and his car is fitted with special gearing to allow him to drive only with his hands. It is a car that only someone his size can operate.

"But a white cop pulls me over one day," he told me, "and is looking me up and down, looking at my insurance and my registration, and he asks me 'Is this your car?' I mean, what is that question supposed to mean? We all know what it's supposed to mean. You're looking at my registration, and I have a car only I can drive. I know why you're asking that question, but I'm not going to say that, because the goal is to get home alive, so I just say 'Yes, sir. It is'."

This is America, 2016.

*' White men are taking America back … to the 1850s' *
I heard similar responses throughout the summer and autumn: Minority people universally spoke of this election as a threat, they spoke of being scared. White people universally saw it as comical, an accidental event that would just disappear, that couldn't really happen here.

Sarah Kendzior warned us of exactly that sentiment. A political writer who studied fascism, Sarah has written of the seriousness of this election in numerous essays, telling us that "it can't happen here" is exactly how fascism happens. Her essays are like a plan for how to avoid a catastrophe, yet it seems that no one wanted to bring her map on this journey.

In August, I warned us too, writing that "we are on the cusp of a historic decision in the US. We can make history and transition from the first black to the first female president. The alternative is to make history by electing our first fascist demagogue." America has made our choice.

Some of us knew this was coming.

 OPINION: Trump is a symptom not the disease 

Rebecca Romani, an adjunct professor of ESL (English as a second language) and Media Studies at San Diego State University, has seen this in other countries and has been "deeply appalled and offended that we are heading down the slippery slope to racially - and economically - inspired fascism".

"My grandparents were enemy aliens in World War II, we were almost in internment again in 2003, and I feel the icy breath of the ghost of E0 9066 rising for me, some of my friends and extended family." Executive Order 9066 was the presidential authorisation for Japanese internment during World War II.

"I fear a return to some dystopian 1950s idyll where women and others knew their place."

Miguel, now returned to his native San Francisco, put it more bluntly: "I've been saying all along that I'd wake up this morning still black in America, no matter who won. The south is unsafe for me because of the people there and their politics, not because of who's president."

William had been expecting it as well. "As people of colour we've known that racism has always been out there, but it's been 'somewhat' under wraps. Now it's been given a voice and subsequent free reign."

"I'm just so very sad," he continued, "that Obama has to hand over the keys to the very man who called his humanity into question. Just like those mothers of the movement, he doesn't get the luxury of voicing his anger. He has to be the role model."

That a white millionaire huckster won the presidency on the back of racism, misogyny, breaking of treaties with natives, and media trickery is the most American thing to ever happen in America

Miguel Carlos, designer

Some people feel sad, some are angry, many are just more scared than they were before. This summer, such an outcome was only a possibility; now, it is a reality.

The day after the election, William and I talked about our outlook and about the older generation of black people who are now speaking words like "Hold your tongue" and "Be careful," words they used in the days before and during the Civil Rights Movement.

"Being a part of that older generation," he said, "I have to agree with them. [White men] are taking America back … to the 1850s. The landscape is changing. Those in power who have a similar point of view as yourself may not be in power tomorrow. And let's not forget the promised bald-faced retribution."

William told me to be careful of that retribution when I write. "You can't afford to go full bore." But that is the silence that allows fascism to rise. That fear causes the silence  Sarah Kendzior  warns us about. She noted on Twitter that researchers pitched a story about how white nationalists were radicalised online, but the story was refused because the media was afraid to run it .

The New York Times  reported  that The American Bar Association refused to publish a report about the presidential candidate citing the threat of being sued. Let that sink in: The governing body of America's lawyers is afraid of being sued.

They were scared into silence by our (now) president elect. This is the silence that allows fascism to rise.

Silence is what hog-tied the Republican Party, fear of retribution caused them to accept their fate. The silence of Liberal America allowed a demagogue to rise as they laughed at him and his followers.

And then there's the silence of the Democratic Party. A silence of short-term economic goals and the knowledge that they didn't have to actually perform for marginalised communities in order to be "owed" their votes.





Supporters of US Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton react at her election night rally in Manhattan [Lucas Jackson/Reuters]
Many of us know that the Democratic Party was no small part of what was to come.

This has been brewing since the neo-liberals took over Congress, increasingly gutting anti-trust regulations, workers' protections, promoting violent policies towards other nations "in our national interests", and ever moving the party towards the right.

The appearance of Democrats as disconnected and "the educated elite" was bolstered by the fact that, by and large, the national party turned its back on both actual peace in the rest of the world and on the survival of the working-class whites who should have been part of its base.

 READ MORE: A look into America's NSM neo-Nazis 

Today working-class whites can't look to the Democrats for real support, and minority people are increasingly angered that their vote never results in substantive change for the better. Is it any surprise that the minority vote was apathetic and the white vote was against them?

And yet, still, many people were surprised.

There is nothing at all surprising here. This is a trend that has been nearly a century in the making. Minority people across America - especially black women - have been warning us about it while Liberal America laughed at John Oliver's jokes.

Now Liberal America is reeling. Hamid Dabashi wrote in Al Jazeera  that  "Liberal America is now scared that [he] will do to America what America has done to the world."

"… For the world at large," Dabashi wrote, "and at the receiving end of American military might, [he] is the very quintessence of America because [he] is what America does to the world, and now it has come dangerously close to do unto itself what it has habitually done unto others."

This is certainly true, but it's not the entire truth. The truth is that America is dangerously close to doing unto it's white self what it has habitually done to others. America, as a whole, has never had much of a problem doing exactly that to its black and brown citizens.

Ask black and Latino people who have lived for generations with an increasingly militarised police force if things will suddenly be different for them in America. Ask the Native people protesting for water security at Standing Rock if life will suddenly be different for them in America.

When has America not been a colonial power to its black and brown people? At its best, America holds a grudging tolerance for us - giving us access to the legal system, yes, but modifying it for white convenience and "safety". At its worst, America attacks black and brown citizens with laws designed to deny black agency and meets black freedom with military force. Even now,  America gasses indigenous brown people  on their native land in favour of a corporate entity.

The truth is that for many minority people America has always treated them the way that it has treated the world. The only thing that has changed is that now America is about to turn on its white citizens too.

 READ MORE: Whites projected to become a US minority 

This is what Jean-Paul Voilleque, a straight, white lawyer in Portland, found the day after the election. He was dressed in his business casual jeans and a bright blue shirt, and was met on his way to work by the new regime. Crossing a footbridge over the Willamette River, a white man "in well-worn clothes" shouted that he was "a faggot". Another white woman, wearing a scarf to cover her head from the chill, was told to go back to her own country.

Martha, a white public school teacher is "furious at myself, a middle-class heterosexual white woman, for being a part of what got this country to last night's horror show. My heart was shredded last night for those in our country whose lives have been pushed even further to the margins by their fellow Americans."

But this isn't about the historically marginalised any more. As of this election, even straight, white Americans will be pushed to the margins. We have not only emboldened a white racist backlash against black and brown people, we have emboldened a backlash against anyone who is not white in the right way.

This is what we have become. This is what decades of Democratic complacency and Republican racism have led to. This is what decades of liberals' silent acceptance of racism and misogyny have led to. This backlash is what comes from liberal talk of "post-racial" America simply because we had a black president.
It's disheartening, but it's not surprising. Many of us knew this was coming. We have choked on the foul stench of white supremacy for a very long time. In many ways, it was what we expected to happen.

Miguel put it best: "That a white millionaire huckster won the presidency on the back of racism, misogyny, breaking of treaties with natives, and media trickery is the most American thing to ever happen in America."

White America may be surprised by this election's result, but black and brown people have warned of this for a long time. It's just that white America doesn't seem able to listen to a black voice.


----------



## flamer84

jha said:


> What a protest... Power to them..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796590387766984704


White racist cops! Hipster fags lives matter!


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## Vergennes

jha said:


> What a protest... Power to them..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796590387766984704





Mahmoud_EGY said:


> wtf this is not normal there is something very wrong with these idiots





T-72 said:


> lmao, America's epic rejection of feminism is probably the best thing to come out of this election so far.





flamer84 said:


> White racist cops! Hipster fags lives matter!



Obelix strikes again ! 

Just kidding.

That was in France,those cops are from the Republican companies of security. (CRS)

You can recognize them with their helmets with yellow lines and their red insigna.

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## AUz

flamer84 said:


> Nope,by the end of Trump's first term Turkish economy will be nowhere near Spain's.By 2021 Spain is projected at 1.476 trillion $ while Turkey will be at 985 billion $.That's a big difference
> 
> http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft...br=1&pr1.x=55&pr1.y=12&c=186&s=NGDPD&grp=0&a=
> 
> http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2016/01/weodata/weorept.aspx?sy=2014&ey=2021&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&pr1.x=66&pr1.y=9&c=174,184,136&s=NGDPD&grp=0&a=
> 
> Also,being a consumption driven economy,with investors loosing faith,Turkey's economy is heading for rough times in the coming years.



Dude, modern economies are compared by PURCHASING POWER, not the currency (which isn't a very good metric to compare overall economic power of a nation).

Let me explain...MOST of economic transactions, production, movement, and consumption happens in LOCAL markets of a nation and NOT in International markets.

As countries get industrialized, local purchasing power becomes increasingly important. Since even critical products start being produced locally and not bought from International markets.

Now, go back and see Turkey's Purchasing power parity (GDP PPP) vs Spain's, and you'll understand 

Guess what? With increasing indigenousnization of Turkish military and its equipment--GDP PPP is becoming even more important because Turkey doesn't have to rely on international markets anymore to fulfill majority of its defence needs.

In terms of PPP, Turkey most likely has already surpassed slow, old, dead-fish Spain..by 2020, Turkey will most definitely surpass Spain in terms of GDP based on local purchasing power.


----------



## flamer84

AUz said:


> Dude, modern economies are compared by PURCHASING POWER, not the currency (which isn't a very good metric to compare overall economic power of a nation).
> 
> Let me explain...MOST of economic transactions, production, movement, and consumption happens in LOCAL markets of a nation and NOT in International markets.
> 
> As countries get industrialized, local purchasing power becomes increasingly important. Since even critical products start being produced locally and not bought from International markets.
> 
> Now, go back and see Turkey's Purchasing power parity (GDP PPP) vs Spain's, and you'll understand
> 
> Guess what? With increasing indigenousnization of Turkish military and its equipment--GDP PPP is becoming even more important because Turkey doesn't have to rely on international markets anymore to fulfill majority of its defence needs.
> 
> In terms of PPP, Turkey most likely has already surpassed slow, old, dead-fish Spain..by 2020, Turkey will most definitely surpass Spain in terms of GDP based on local purchasing power.


Sry,nominal GDP is what matters,you,ve had that discussion numerous times on this forum and told why.PPP is feel good but that s all
Also,feel free to google it,Turkey s economy is heading into a storm while Spain had good growth this year.


----------



## AUz

flamer84 said:


> Sry,nominal GDP is what matters,you,ve had that discussion numerous times on this forum and told why.PPP is feel good but that s all
> Also,feel free to google it,Turkey s economy is heading into a storm while Spain had good growth this year.



There is no "this one matters" thing here. It all depends on country's situation.

As I said, as country get industrialized and starts to rely less on international markets---purchasing power becomes increasingly important measure. Its common sense, isn't it?

Anyways.


----------



## flamer84

AUz said:


> There is no "this one matters" thing here. It all depends on country's situation.
> 
> As I said, as country get industrialized and starts to rely less on international markets---purchasing power becomes increasingly important measure. Its common sense, isn't it?
> 
> Anyways.


It is and you ve been told why.One is reality,the other one is a feel good concept for developing economies.


----------



## Penguin

forsigmar said:


> Trump has thousands of lawsuits, once he picks a favorable Supreme court justice, the court may change its decision .


Yeah, I'm sure you know better.


----------



## T-72



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## Desert Fox

@Nilgiri @T-72 @C130 @flamer84 @Vergennes Already Trump's victory is stimulating the economy.

*Trump Bounce: Dow Surges to Record High*​



U.S. stocks moved higher Thursday as investors enjoyed a second day rally on the heels of Donald Trump's presidential election. Shares of European Banks including Deutsche Bank and Credit Suisse rose on hopes of less burdensome regulations under a Trump administration.

*The Dow surged 218 points and blasted to a new closing high, marking Day 2 of the "Trump Bounce" as Wall Street fears related to Donald Trump’s stunning election win gave way to hopes that the president-elect's policies could boost the economy.*

The Dow Jones industrial average climbed 1.2% to its new all-time closing high of 18,807.88, setting a new intraday high of 18,873.66 in the process. Its previous record close was 18,636.05, notched in mid-August. The Dow jumped 256.95 points Wednesday to 18,589.69.

The broad Standard & Poor's 500 stock index inched up 0.2% as it moved closer to its record close of 2190.15. But tech stocks tumbled as the Nasdaq composite slid 0.8%.

*The post-election rally has been driven by investors reassessing their views on a Trump presidency and beginning to focus on the growth-friendly positives for the economy, such as fiscal spending, lower taxes and less regulation of businesses under Trump.*

In general, Wall Street is shifting its focus from Trump, the man and presidential campaigner, to Trump's policies.

Wall Street also is betting that Trump's growth-friendly policies have a better chance of getting enacted with Republicans controlling Congress, adds David Rosenberg, chief strategist at Gluskin Sheff.

"The rally could represent investors taking a breath and looking at these potential positives in terms of seeing government actually move economic policy forward," Rosenberg told clients in a report.

The sell-off in bonds continued Thursday, sending bond prices lower and kicking up the yield on the 10-year Treasury note to 2.10% from 2.06% late Wednesday.

Japan’s Nikkei 225 index surged 6.7% to finish at 17,344.42, while Hong Kong’s Hang Seng index rose 1.9%. The Shanghai composite index added 1.4% to close at 3,171.28.

Major European stock markets gave up early gains and were lower as Germany's DAX index was down 0.2% and France's CAC 40 dropped 0.3%.

Stocks jumped on Wall Street on Wednesday as the major indexes pared steep losses after volatile trading overnight ahead of Trump’s victory. Trump’s pledge to unify a deeply divided nation in his victory speech early Wednesday helped calm jitters in global financial markets.

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## ultron

If Governor Nikki Haley runs in 2024 I would support her. Hot woman. 

https://www.youtube.com/user/nikkihaley/videos


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## Desert Fox

The Memes shall continue, @KAL-EL :




@Vergennes @flamer84

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## Desert Fox

Wow, I'm sure Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) would be proud of this kind of behavior (He wouldn't). This Muslim girl just discredited any real victims of hate crimes. *You can thank her for further tarnishing the image of Muslims as being liars and scoundrels.*

*Muslim Student Fabricated Story of Trump Supporter Hate Crime*​

_Updated_

A student at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette fabricated a story that she was attacked and had her hijab ripped off, police said Thursday.

The attack was one of several reported in the wake of Donald Trump’s election victory.

In a press release Thursday afternoon, the Lafayette Police Department said that during the course of their investigation into the woman’s complaint, *she “admitted that she fabricated the story about her physical attack as well as the removal of her hijab and wallet by two white males.*

*“This incident is no longer under investigation”* by the department, the statement said.

_The original version of this story below has been updated to reflect the latest police statement._

In a incident Wednesday, *a female student at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette claimed to have been beaten, robbed and had her hijab ripped off by two men, one of them wearing a white “Trump” hat, police and university officials said.*

But on Thursday, Lafayette police said that during their investigation, the woman admitted fabricating that story.

The SDSU student was walking to her car about 2:30 p.m. when two men accosted her in the stairwell of a campus parking building and “made comments about President-elect Donald Trump and the Muslim community,” campus police said in a statement. The men grabbed the woman’s purse and backpack, and removed her car keys before fleeing, police said.

*The woman, who was not injured*, left the area to report the attack, police said. When authorities arrived on the scene, they said, her car was missing.

Police described the suspects as a white male between 20 and 25 years old and a Hispanic male about the same age. Investigators are treating the incident as a hate crime, robbery and vehicle theft.

The SDSU Muslim Student Association said the victim was a Muslim student wearing a hijab and “full Islamic garb.” The group is planning a demonstration next week to protest Trump’s victory, saying his campaign has encouraged discrimination against blacks and Muslims.

“We are calling on all students, faculty, staff, and community members to come and show solidarity with our sister that was attacked and also stand against anti-Blackness, Islamophobia, and all other forms of discrimination that have become increasingly normalized during the campaign and now election of Donald Trump,” the group said on Facebook. “It is time we make it clear that the hate and racism of Donald Trump will not find a home in San Diego.”

University President Elliot Hirshman said in a statement that the victim appeared to have been targeted because of her Muslim faith.

“We condemn this hateful act and urge all members of our community to join us in condemning such hateful acts,” Hirshman said. “Hate crimes are destructive to the spirit of our campus and we urge all members of our community to stand together in rejecting hate.”

Hours earlier, Hirshman sent out a statement calling on members of the university to “ensure fair and equitable treatment of all members of our community” in the wake of the election, the independent student newspaper reported.

Trump’s vows over the past year to ban, deport or use “extreme vetting” against Muslims entering the country has struck fear in many U.S. Muslims, who have faced a surge in hate crimes since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Those proposals, along with the president-elect’s repeated condemnations of Muslims on the campaign trail, have led some critics to accuse him of bringing anti-Islamic sentiment into the mainstream.

The incident in San Diego came less than two weeks after a Saudi Arabian student at the University of Wisconsin-Stout was assaulted and killed near campus. Allegations spread online that the attack on 24-year-old Hussain Saeed Alnahdi may have been a hate crime, but police have yet to identify a motive or name a suspect in the case.

@T-72 @Nilgiri @KAL-EL @C130 @Falcon29 @RabzonKhan @ultron @flamer84 @Vergennes @mike2000 is back

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## mike2000 is back

Desert Fox said:


> The Memes shall continue, @KAL-EL :
> 
> View attachment 351123​
> @Vergennes @flamer84
> 
> View attachment 351124
> 
> View attachment 351125​


WTF is this suppose to even mean?
Seriously some people here make me laugh.
Obviously, your image shows why western democratic countries are stable, since there is constant change of power through ballot boxes as the people get to freely decide who they want as leader. Not some tyrannical dynasty dictatorship who thinks they are born to rule a country. Lol For your infos our P.M David Cameron resigned without any pressure or call for him to do, this will never happen in your region ruled by despots. Lol 

Anyway you people can remain with your corrupt dictators for life. Who cares? Since you people are ok with them Lol



Desert Fox said:


> Wow, I'm sure Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) would be proud of this kind of behavior (He wouldn't). This Muslim girl just discredited any real victims of hate crimes. *You can thank her for further tarnishing the image of Muslims as being liars and scoundrels.*
> 
> *Muslim Student Fabricated Story of Trump Supporter Hate Crime*​
> 
> _Updated_
> 
> A student at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette fabricated a story that she was attacked and had her hijab ripped off, police said Thursday.
> 
> The attack was one of several reported in the wake of Donald Trump’s election victory.
> 
> In a press release Thursday afternoon, the Lafayette Police Department said that during the course of their investigation into the woman’s complaint, *she “admitted that she fabricated the story about her physical attack as well as the removal of her hijab and wallet by two white males.*
> 
> *“This incident is no longer under investigation”* by the department, the statement said.
> 
> _The original version of this story below has been updated to reflect the latest police statement._
> 
> In a incident Wednesday, *a female student at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette claimed to have been beaten, robbed and had her hijab ripped off by two men, one of them wearing a white “Trump” hat, police and university officials said.*
> 
> But on Thursday, Lafayette police said that during their investigation, the woman admitted fabricating that story.
> 
> The SDSU student was walking to her car about 2:30 p.m. when two men accosted her in the stairwell of a campus parking building and “made comments about President-elect Donald Trump and the Muslim community,” campus police said in a statement. The men grabbed the woman’s purse and backpack, and removed her car keys before fleeing, police said.
> 
> *The woman, who was not injured*, left the area to report the attack, police said. When authorities arrived on the scene, they said, her car was missing.
> 
> Police described the suspects as a white male between 20 and 25 years old and a Hispanic male about the same age. Investigators are treating the incident as a hate crime, robbery and vehicle theft.
> 
> The SDSU Muslim Student Association said the victim was a Muslim student wearing a hijab and “full Islamic garb.” The group is planning a demonstration next week to protest Trump’s victory, saying his campaign has encouraged discrimination against blacks and Muslims.
> 
> “We are calling on all students, faculty, staff, and community members to come and show solidarity with our sister that was attacked and also stand against anti-Blackness, Islamophobia, and all other forms of discrimination that have become increasingly normalized during the campaign and now election of Donald Trump,” the group said on Facebook. “It is time we make it clear that the hate and racism of Donald Trump will not find a home in San Diego.”
> 
> University President Elliot Hirshman said in a statement that the victim appeared to have been targeted because of her Muslim faith.
> 
> “We condemn this hateful act and urge all members of our community to join us in condemning such hateful acts,” Hirshman said. “Hate crimes are destructive to the spirit of our campus and we urge all members of our community to stand together in rejecting hate.”
> 
> Hours earlier, Hirshman sent out a statement calling on members of the university to “ensure fair and equitable treatment of all members of our community” in the wake of the election, the independent student newspaper reported.
> 
> Trump’s vows over the past year to ban, deport or use “extreme vetting” against Muslims entering the country has struck fear in many U.S. Muslims, who have faced a surge in hate crimes since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Those proposals, along with the president-elect’s repeated condemnations of Muslims on the campaign trail, have led some critics to accuse him of bringing anti-Islamic sentiment into the mainstream.
> 
> The incident in San Diego came less than two weeks after a Saudi Arabian student at the University of Wisconsin-Stout was assaulted and killed near campus. Allegations spread online that the attack on 24-year-old Hussain Saeed Alnahdi may have been a hate crime, but police have yet to identify a motive or name a suspect in the case.
> 
> @T-72 @Nilgiri @KAL-EL @C130 @Falcon29 @RabzonKhan @ultron @flamer84 @Vergennes @mike2000 is back


Well, people often do that for some reasons, she's not the only one. 
She probably wanted to gain more sympathy for their cause


----------



## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> Wow, I'm sure Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) would be proud of this kind of behavior (He wouldn't). This Muslim girl just discredited any real victims of hate crimes. *You can thank her for further tarnishing the image of Muslims as being liars and scoundrels.*
> 
> *Muslim Student Fabricated Story of Trump Supporter Hate Crime*​
> 
> _Updated_
> 
> A student at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette fabricated a story that she was attacked and had her hijab ripped off, police said Thursday.
> 
> The attack was one of several reported in the wake of Donald Trump’s election victory.
> 
> In a press release Thursday afternoon, the Lafayette Police Department said that during the course of their investigation into the woman’s complaint, *she “admitted that she fabricated the story about her physical attack as well as the removal of her hijab and wallet by two white males.*
> 
> *“This incident is no longer under investigation”* by the department, the statement said.
> 
> _The original version of this story below has been updated to reflect the latest police statement._
> 
> In a incident Wednesday, *a female student at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette claimed to have been beaten, robbed and had her hijab ripped off by two men, one of them wearing a white “Trump” hat, police and university officials said.*
> 
> But on Thursday, Lafayette police said that during their investigation, the woman admitted fabricating that story.
> 
> The SDSU student was walking to her car about 2:30 p.m. when two men accosted her in the stairwell of a campus parking building and “made comments about President-elect Donald Trump and the Muslim community,” campus police said in a statement. The men grabbed the woman’s purse and backpack, and removed her car keys before fleeing, police said.
> 
> *The woman, who was not injured*, left the area to report the attack, police said. When authorities arrived on the scene, they said, her car was missing.
> 
> Police described the suspects as a white male between 20 and 25 years old and a Hispanic male about the same age. Investigators are treating the incident as a hate crime, robbery and vehicle theft.
> 
> The SDSU Muslim Student Association said the victim was a Muslim student wearing a hijab and “full Islamic garb.” The group is planning a demonstration next week to protest Trump’s victory, saying his campaign has encouraged discrimination against blacks and Muslims.
> 
> “We are calling on all students, faculty, staff, and community members to come and show solidarity with our sister that was attacked and also stand against anti-Blackness, Islamophobia, and all other forms of discrimination that have become increasingly normalized during the campaign and now election of Donald Trump,” the group said on Facebook. “It is time we make it clear that the hate and racism of Donald Trump will not find a home in San Diego.”
> 
> University President Elliot Hirshman said in a statement that the victim appeared to have been targeted because of her Muslim faith.
> 
> “We condemn this hateful act and urge all members of our community to join us in condemning such hateful acts,” Hirshman said. “Hate crimes are destructive to the spirit of our campus and we urge all members of our community to stand together in rejecting hate.”
> 
> Hours earlier, Hirshman sent out a statement calling on members of the university to “ensure fair and equitable treatment of all members of our community” in the wake of the election, the independent student newspaper reported.
> 
> Trump’s vows over the past year to ban, deport or use “extreme vetting” against Muslims entering the country has struck fear in many U.S. Muslims, who have faced a surge in hate crimes since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Those proposals, along with the president-elect’s repeated condemnations of Muslims on the campaign trail, have led some critics to accuse him of bringing anti-Islamic sentiment into the mainstream.
> 
> The incident in San Diego came less than two weeks after a Saudi Arabian student at the University of Wisconsin-Stout was assaulted and killed near campus. Allegations spread online that the attack on 24-year-old Hussain Saeed Alnahdi may have been a hate crime, but police have yet to identify a motive or name a suspect in the case.
> 
> @T-72 @Nilgiri @KAL-EL @C130 @Falcon29 @RabzonKhan @ultron @flamer84 @Vergennes @mike2000 is back


just saw CNN running clips of kids being mean in highschool, including a doctored/snipped "white power" one with no full context, prepare for your own "growing intolerance" lefty media narrative now, maybe they'll go full retard and the intellectuals start returning awards in protest of all the fascism. 



mike2000 is back said:


> WTF is this suppose to even mean?
> Seriously some people here make me laugh.
> Obviously, your image shows why western democratic countries are stable, since there is constant change of power through ballot boxes as the people get to freely decide who they want as leader. Not some tyrannical dynasty dictatorship who thinks they are born to rule a country. Lol For your infos our P.M David Cameron resigned without any pressure or call for him to do, this will never happen in your region ruled by despots. Lol
> 
> Anyway you people can remain with your corrupt dictators for life. Who cares? Since you people are ok with them Lol
> 
> 
> Well, people often do that for some reasons, she's not the only one.
> She probably wanted to gain more sympathy for their cause


it means Assad > ISIS and the so called rebels

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## flamer84

T-72 said:


> just saw CNN running clips of kids being mean in highschool, including a doctored/snipped "white power" one with no full context, prepare for your own "growing intolerance" lefty media narrative now, maybe they'll go full retard and the intellectuals start returning awards in protest of all the fascism.
> 
> 
> it means Assad > ISIS and the so called rebels


Yeah,saw that to on CNN.What I didn t see was the video of a white man beaten to a pulp in Chicago because "you voted for Trump", " kill all whites" tweets,etc.

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## ultron

If Trump does a great job and Mike Pence runs in 2024, he could pick Nikki Haley as his running mate. IMO there should be a female vice president first before there is a female president. One step at a time. No rush.

Nikki Haley is only 44, has the looks, and is an ethnic minority. She would be widely popular.

https://www.youtube.com/user/nikkihaley/videos

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## forsigmar

Penguin said:


> Yeah, I'm sure you know better.


Alot of his lawsuits against him are weak anyway. Suing Trump University is like suing ITT tech, Uni of Pheonix saying your degree isn't worth the money. Then don't go. LOL


----------



## Penguin

forsigmar said:


> Alot of his lawsuits against him are weak anyway. Suing Trump University is like suing ITT tech, Uni of Pheonix saying your degree isn't worth the money. Then don't go. LOL


Yeah, I'm sure you know better.


----------



## T-72

flamer84 said:


> Yeah,saw that to on CNN.What I didn t see was the video of a white man beaten to a pulp in Chicago because "you voted for Trump", " kill all whites" tweets,etc.


I saw that as well, but not on CNN or MSNBC.

here, more big league liberal feminists reduced to tears

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## forsigmar

T-72 said:


> I saw that as well, but not on CNN or MSNBC.
> 
> here, more big league liberal feminists reduced to tears


Elizabeth Warren is another delusional feminist, fake anti banker supporting a banker Clinton candidate.


Penguin said:


> Yeah, I'm sure you know better.


LOL. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/10/us/politics/trump-supreme-court.html

“In the worst case, we end up with a 7-2 conservative court, and a relatively young one at that,” Professor Friedman said. “This could be a typhoon for the Supreme Court. An already very conservative jurisprudence will deepen and may broaden, encompassing areas that had long been resistant, such as abortion rights.”

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## Desert Fox

mike2000 is back said:


> WTF is this suppose to even mean?
> Seriously some people here make me laugh.
> Obviously, your image shows why western democratic countries are stable, since there is constant change of power through ballot boxes as the people get to freely decide who they want as leader. Not some tyrannical dynasty dictatorship who thinks they are born to rule a country. Lol For your infos our P.M David Cameron resigned without any pressure or call for him to do, this will never happen in your region ruled by despots. Lol
> 
> Anyway you people can remain with your corrupt dictators for life. Who cares? Since you people are ok with them Lol


Looks like someone didn't get the joke. 



mike2000 is back said:


> Well, people often do that for some reasons, she's not the only one.
> She probably wanted to gain more sympathy for their cause


And she ended up discrediting any real victims of Trump supporters hate crime (that's if there really are any).

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## mike2000 is back

T-72 said:


> it means Assad > ISIS and the so called rebels


Lol Syria is exactly in the situation of a failed state in civil war and chaos precisely because of his hunger and greed for power. Lol you can say all you want but that's the reality. 
He thinks his familly is born to rule for life. Just like many other middle eastern and African countries.
Egypt and Tunisia will be in the same situation as Syria today if the military had not intervened to remove dictator Mubarak from power and Ben Ali had not fled out if the country thus leading to creation of a transitional government. No man should be bigger than a COUNTRY.

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## forsigmar

mike2000 is back said:


> Lol Syria is exactly in the situation of a failed state in civil war and chaos precisely because of his hunger and greed for power. Lol you can say all you want but that's the reality.
> He thinks his familly is born to rule for life. Just like many other middle eastern and African countries.
> Egypt and Tunisia will be in the same situation as Syria today if the military had not intervened to remove dictator Mubarak from power and Ben Ali had not fled out if the country thus leading to creation of a transitional government. No man should be bigger than a COUNTRY.


Are you including ISIS/AQ being supporting by Hillary Clinton, Saudi Arabia, Israel, NATO, Qatar and other states as actors hungry for greed and power?

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## mike2000 is back

forsigmar said:


> Are you including ISIS/AQ being supporting by Hillary Clinton, Saudi Arabia, Israel, NATO, Qatar and other states as actors hungry for greed and power?


Lool You still don't get what I mean do you? 
Oh well, waste of time I guess.


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## flamer84

T-72 said:


> I saw that as well, but not on CNN or MSNBC.
> 
> here, more big league liberal feminists reduced to tears


"Who? Pocahantas?..."

"That s very offensive!"

"Oh,I m sry about that.So...Pocahantas..."

LOL 0 f$cks given


You know,I didn t really followed the US elections,I was convinced that all was set up for killery.I have trouble sleeping,I got up at 3 in the night and watched the elections,Florida wasn t declared yet,boy I was in for a treat!
Now I discovered all these videos,God,I lost so much fun!

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## T-72

hwhite nationalist Jared Taylor: 





but it looks like David Duke lost big league, 'Murrica is in good hands, people. Trump is not an evil man, and the fringe real racists have neither the political power and nor do they exist in any significant numbers there. Trump can do a lot of good, scandals aside, the man is very common sense on a lot of issues, people should stop the propaganda fear-mongering now that the race is over and they're in transition.


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## Desert Fox

flamer84 said:


> "Who? Pocahantas?..."
> 
> "That s very offensive!"
> 
> "Oh,I m sry about that.So...Pocahantas..."
> 
> LOL 0 f$cks given
> 
> 
> You know,I didn t really followed the US elections,I was convinced that all was set up for killery.I have trouble sleeping,I got up at 3 in the night and watched the elections,Florida wasn t declared yet,boy I was in for a treat!
> Now I discovered all these videos,God,I lost so much fun!


It's not too late. Thanks to modern advances in technology you can now relive the entire election year for however many times you want 

Starting with the great "Can't Stump The Trump Series":
































@KAL-EL @Nilgiri @vostok @T-72​

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## Desert Fox

Can't Stump The Trump cont'd:
































@T-72 @flamer84 @Nilgiri @KAL-EL

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## Desert Fox

Can't Stump The Trump Cont'd (part 3):

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## Desert Fox

Can't Stump The Trump Cont'd (part 4)

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## Desert Fox

Can't Stump The Trump Cont'd (part 5):

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## T-72

flamer84 said:


> "Who? Pocahantas?..."
> 
> "That s very offensive!"
> 
> "Oh,I m sry about that.So...Pocahantas..."
> 
> LOL 0 f$cks given
> 
> 
> You know,I didn t really followed the US elections,I was convinced that all was set up for killery.I have trouble sleeping,I got up at 3 in the night and watched the elections,Florida wasn t declared yet,boy I was in for a treat!
> Now I discovered all these videos,God,I lost so much fun!


you lost big league, in fact you were even anti Trump, weren't you ? 

nevermind though, this is such a big win for so many things, and the feminists mourning is probably the sweetest bit 

you should go back and watch some of his pre primaries rallies, non teleprompter, unscripted, he really has fought like hell to get here, savaged every single person who stood in his way, destroyed the Bush and Clinton dynasties... 

#tremendous









mike2000 is back said:


> Lol Syria is exactly in the situation of a failed state in civil war and chaos precisely because of his hunger and greed for power. Lol you can say all you want but that's the reality.
> He thinks his familly is born to rule for life. Just like many other middle eastern and African countries.
> Egypt and Tunisia will be in the same situation as Syria today if the military had not intervened to remove dictator Mubarak from power and Ben Ali had not fled out if the country thus leading to creation of a transitional government. No man should be bigger than a COUNTRY.


just stop helping the terrorists, Trump will take care of the rest.

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## AUz

flamer84 said:


> It is and you ve been told why.One is reality,the other one is a feel good concept for developing economies.



LOL!!! 

PPP reveals actual levels of prosperity within a country. It's not even close to being a "feel good measure."

What is feel good is your deniability of obvious facts just because you don't want to accept the increasingly irrelevant countries of Europe. 

Tell me, if a country's reliance on international markets for critical defense technology decreases significantly due to local industrialization..why would local purchasing power not become increasingly important?

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## forsigmar

Desert Fox said:


> Looks like someone didn't get the joke.
> 
> 
> And she ended up discrediting any real victims of Trump supporters hate crime (that's if there really are any).


Hey!, Rosie O Donnell is a real victim

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## Incog_nito

So, what we can expect from Trump for Pakistan? Complete blockade of Military hardware and it's support parts? Will it gonna send some Pakistanis back home???


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## Solomon2




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## RabzonKhan



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## Desert Fox



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## Desert Fox



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## vostok

Desert Fox said:


> It's not too late. Thanks to modern advances in technology you can now relive the entire election year for however many times you want
> 
> Starting with the great "Can't Stump The Trump Series":
> 
> 
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> 
> @KAL-EL @Nilgiri @vostok @T-72​

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## RabzonKhan

*How the world is viewing Trump's presidential victory in Cartoons:*

*



*

*



*

*



*

*



*

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## Nilgiri



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## forsigmar

Oxair Online said:


> So, what we can expect from Trump for Pakistan? Complete blockade of Military hardware and it's support parts? Will it gonna send some Pakistanis back home???


I think Trump may end the war in Afghanistan, and probably won't give Pakistan anymore aid. I don't think Trump will be playing the Pakistan vs India game, as the conflict is ultimately a political quagmire.


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## Nilgiri

Good job mom!

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## forsigmar

Nilgiri said:


> Good job mom!


Wow liberals are so screwed up

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## flamer84

Nilgiri said:


> Good job mom!




Jesus Christ! This is insanity and there are tons of videos of these...I don't know how to call them,calling them people seems inapropriate....creatures,doing all this awfull stuff while the media pushes tweets and fb post with invented stories to show us how right wingers are destroying America.

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## Nilgiri

flamer84 said:


> Jesus Christ! This is insanity and there are tons of videos of these...I don't know how to call them,calling them people seems inapropriate....creatures,doing all this awfull stuff while the media pushes tweets and fb post with invented stories to show us how right wingers are destroying America.



The fact Obama and Clinton have not denounced any of the violent protests taking place is quite telling.

If they think this is pressure they can put on Donald to go easy on them later/slip through, they are sorely mistaken.

Just imagine if all of this was reversed....what kind of language the media and PC crowd would be using...well past "deplorables".

I am actually happy all of this is happening and coming to light, it makes everyone that voted Trump breathe a sigh of relief and divides the other side even more as time goes by.


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## Desert Fox

forsigmar said:


> Hey!, Rosie O Donnell is a real victim



She's the original victim  she has the rightful claim to that title.

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## flamer84

Nilgiri said:


> The fact Obama and Clinton have not denounced any of the violent protests taking place is quite telling.
> 
> If they think this is pressure they can put on Donald to go easy on them later/slip through, they are sorely mistaken.
> 
> Just imagine if all of this was reversed....what kind of language the media and PC crowd would be using...well past "deplorables".
> 
> I am actually happy all of this is happening and coming to light, it makes everyone that voted Trump breathe a sigh of relief and divides the other side even more as time goes by.




Indeed,I always loathed the left,saw them as dangerous but,until now,everywhere in the world they got their way.Now that they didn't,they show a much darker face,these are anti humans,fascists,it's quite scary.

And the MSM is calling on Trump to talk to them,"heal the wounds"? WTF? You know,some of these days ,someone is going to fight back,we all know that many of the people who voted for Trump are gun loving folks....Thank God for the internet that they can't push their loathsome narative as an absolute truth.

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## Desert Fox

forsigmar said:


> I think Trump may end the war in Afghanistan, and probably won't give Pakistan anymore aid.



Which honestly would be beneficial to Pakistan in the long run by reducing dependency on American aid. This was one of the main reasons why I voted Trump.

While others saw the glass half empty, I saw the glass half full.

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## Nilgiri

To all you Hillary lovers, esp SJW cuck "protesters" on the street:

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## Desert Fox

vostok said:


> View attachment 351171



With Trump at the helm a potential war with Russia over the "moderate" terrorists in Syria has been avoided and the chances of Russian-American relations normalizing have drastically increased.

Had Hillary Clinton won then we would have had the following:

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## KAL-EL

flamer84 said:


> And the MSM is calling on Trump to talk to them,"heal the wounds"? WTF?



Today here in the states, I've been watching various news channels for post election coverage.

One of the most common things that I've been seeing are the various cry baby Talking Heads harping over and over again that Trump needs to try to get people to be ok.

I kept thinking to myself "WTF!?" umm no cry babies, get with the program, Trump won the election. get over it!!

And most of the people here know that I was never a big fan of trump, and I didn't vote for Trump or Clinton.

However, I recognize the results of the election. Elections have consequences, and Trump won.

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## ultron

Michigan is still not called. Hillary winning popular vote by 0.4%. 

http://www.cnn.com/election

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## forsigmar

ultron said:


> Michigan is still not called. Hillary winning popular vote by 0.4%.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/election


doesn't matter anymore, trump already won electoral college

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## fallstuff

It will be interesting to see how Trump is going to hold his end of the bargain. We shall find out.


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## boomslang

My investments made about $12,000 since Tuesday. HAHAHAHAHAHA !!! I'm waiting for the call to go downtown and deal out a little stick time. I'm just wishing.

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## T-72



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## jaunty

I said before the elections that Hillary was so unpopular that any decent republican other than the buffoon Trump would have won the elections, guess what I was wrong. The buffoon was good enough. A simple look at the numbers tell you the whole story. Trump did not get more votes than republican candidates in the previous two elections. Clinton got millions fewer than Obama. Democrats underestimated how unappealing Hillary Clinton was and paid the price.

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## T-72



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## vostok

Liberals are going away...

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## T-72

vostok said:


> Liberals are going away...


nothing wrong with being liberal, though in the US that has increasingly meant a far left victim seeker sjw mentality culturally, and in the corridors of power, corporatist war mongers, the neo-libs, not very different in their outlook than the neo-cons. 

this Trump revolution in the states was beautiful, faith in democracy restored, a real victory of good over evil and common sense over political correctness. Hopefully a new left emerges there, one that doesn't incessantly blame the native majority for everything that is wrong in the world, spl the men. I'm surprised they were even allowed to get that far with their 'everyone is racist' nonsense.

While nobody can deny that Trump has at times been a potty mouth, the man is socially pretty liberal himself. His running mate, Pence, is a bit of a right winger moralist ideologue but thankfully it seems the duo will have their hands full with real problems like Syria etc and the US has long since passed the stage where gay relations etc are even up for debate. 

Trump is essentially a normal independent who leans left or right depending on the subject and will leave those types of domestic matters down to their states to decide, no federal over-lording in people's bedrooms in the US, probably doesn't give a toss about recreational pot etc, and does not hate muslims or any other minority groups there. 

The liberal media in the US, having apparently learned no lessons from this yuge embarrassment, are continuing to push a very dangerous pro rioter and anti Trump narrative, and that worries me, hopefully they fizzle out in a few days but certain celebs are still pushing hard for unrest and chaos from their elite hollywood soapbox perches.

L.E.Trump might have to step in and teach them a fascy style lesson in Law & Order if things get bad:


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## ultron

jaunty said:


> Trump did not get more votes than republican candidates in the previous two elections.




He got more votes than McCain did in 2008.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016


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## jaunty

ultron said:


> He got more votes than McCain did in 2008.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016



Yeah but just a few hundred thousand votes more, which is negligible if you compare the difference between Obama and Clinton. Obama got 9 million more votes in 2008 and 5 million in 2012 than Clinton did this year.

I also think that opinion polls which had Clinton winning clearly did more harm than good to her. Democrats got complacent and stayed home thinking this was an easy win. Some even wrote in Harambe and whatnot.


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## Nilgiri

jaunty said:


> Yeah but just a few hundred thousand votes more, which is negligible if you compare the difference between Obama and Clinton. Obama got 9 million more votes in 2008 and 5 million in 2012 than Clinton did this year.



87% of those that voted for change this time voted for Trump.

When I saw that in the exit poll before the votes came in...I knew it was game over.

Democrat party has only itself to blame for this loss....especially the way they rigged it against Bernie.

Total blue votes dropped so drastically, Hillary just did not inspire the democrat voting base....many voted Trump (esp in the rust belt) or stayed home out of spite.

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## jaunty

Nilgiri said:


> 87% of those that voted for change this time voted for Trump.
> 
> When I saw that in the exit poll before the votes came in...I knew it was game over.
> 
> Democrat party has only itself to blame for this loss....especially the way they rigged it against Bernie.
> 
> Total blue votes dropped so drastically, Hillary just did not inspire the democrat voting base....many voted Trump (esp in the rust belt) or stayed home out of spite.



True. I personally underestimated Trump. He got more votes than I thought he would but Hillary's unpopularity was never in question. No one really likes her. Many voted for her as the lesser of the two evils, against a better republican candidate than Trump she probably would have lost even badly.

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## Nilgiri

jaunty said:


> True. I personally underestimated Trump. He got more votes than I thought he would but Hillary's unpopularity was never in question. No one really likes her. Many voted for her as the lesser of the two evils, against a better republican candidate than Trump she probably would have lost even badly.



I kinda knew Penn and Mich would be in play in a big way (Wisconsin was the only big surprise for me on election night.)....because Trump was a non-conventional republican. Pretty much an old-school democrat actually with protectionism etc being promoted among people who directly or indirectly suffered terrible unemployment for decades. Compared to Hillary who came off as typical establishment, even republican-like economy wise.

These people every day see the remnants of industries that once made them the greatest in the world...be it steel in PA, steel processing in Ohio and automobiles in Mich. I personally have seen these buildings driving around, huge and gutted....dens of drugs and homeless people to add insult to injury.

They gave Obama 8 years to bring the change he promised. 8 YEARS. Now they have either given up hope (and thus stay home) or are willing to take a gamble (but that needs a Trump or Bernie)....they have come to that desperate level. 8 years of a sex fiend, 8 years of a war looney half-wit and 8 years of a "presentable" incompetent....and people were seriously going to add crooked incompetent lady who relied on her name (of aforementioned sex fiend) and pretty much nothing else to this? MSM/democrats/establishment dug their hole...and they seem to be still stuck in it.

So when the they are whining right now about all trump voters being racist etc etc....just shows the underlying disconnect with the reality of the situation while they sit in their studios in their cocoons of deep urban wealth.

The lashing out by certain elements of theirs in these "protests" (turning into violent riots in areas), some quite possibly funded by Soros is just going to keep polarizing and isolating the US. Trump is going to have a very strong first year...his support base will strengthen and possible widen....whereas the other side will continue to split and divide I feel....they only have a long term chance with a complete overhaul of the democrat party (and by extension the MSM).....just like Trump promises to do with the republican party and establishment in general. Its really the promise and vision that matters a lot more for short term politics compared to results (which is something more long term)....Trump got that, the dems ultimately did not this time....but then they had 8 years of obama result to overcome so maybe it was always a tough ask....thats why Bernie was really their only chance....and even he sullied himself now by endorsing and supporting Hillary.

The disgusting smugness of the MSM continues:

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## ultron

The MSM is controlled by the powerful elites. In the 2020 election Trump would have the entire MSM behind him. Eric Trump and Tiffany Trump are expected to go into politics and leave The Trump Organization to Donald Trump Jr. and Ivanka Trump. That would boost him significantly. Expect a landslide victory for him in 2020.

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## SQ8

It is EXTREMELY important for Americans to unite now. More than ever. We CANNOT let these divides go further and end up in situations where are ready to spit in each other's faces in the streets. Libtards, Retardicans.. etc is an election idea and needs to be junked immediately. 

To echo Obama, we really need this guy to work out otherwise we are all screwed. The office is what matters, not the man in the chair. There are PLENTY of checks & balances that allow any significant percentage to object and prevent any ideas they dont agree with. But derailing the exact system is not one of them.

Those who oppose Trump have a chance to correct their non voting and third party candidate stupidity, those who support him need to weed out the dicks and bigoted arseholes within themselves so that he can get rid of that image and really be accepted by all.

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## Nilgiri

Oscar said:


> It is EXTREMELY important for Americans to unite now. More than ever. We CANNOT let these divides go further and end up in situations where are ready to spit in each other's faces in the streets. Libtards, Retardicans.. etc is an election idea and needs to be junked immediately.
> 
> To echo Obama, we really need this guy to work out otherwise we are all screwed. The office is what matters, not the man in the chair. There are PLENTY of checks & balances that allow any significant percentage to object and prevent any ideas they dont agree with. But derailing the exact system is not one of them.
> 
> Those who oppose Trump have a chance to correct their non voting and third party candidate stupidity, those who support him need to weed out the dicks and bigoted arseholes within themselves so that he can get rid of that image and really be accepted by all.



A good first step will be for Obama and Hillary to condemn the violent elements in these protests.

It is inexcusable and must be condemned.

Right of assembly, protest and free speech is one thing....abusing it to include destruction of private and public property as well as intimidation/physical attacks....is something the current president at least must make a statement of condemnation for. Otherwise they continue to look controlled/hypocritical in the eyes of many. Step 2 and further steps will be hard to achieve without this.

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## SQ8

Nilgiri said:


> A good first step will be for Obama and Hillary to condemn the violent elements in these protests.
> 
> It is inexcusable and must be condemned.
> 
> Right of assembly, protest and free speech is one thing....abusing it to include destruction of private and public property as well as intimidation/physical attacks....is something the current president at least must make a statement of condemnation for. Otherwise they continue to look controlled/hypocritical in the eyes of many. Step 2 and further steps will be hard to achieve without this.


Public property destruction is unacceptable. This is not a third world country like India and Pakistan, we do not destroy our own nation.

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## Nilgiri

Oscar said:


> Public property destruction is unacceptable. This is not a third world country like India and Pakistan, we do not destroy our own nation.



Right. So Obama at the very least needs to come out and state this unequivocally right now (and preferably as soon as it started happening....but that has somewhat elapsed now). Hillary also following in releasing this statement is required as well I feel.

I am somewhat surprised that he hasn't....and it will be quite telling if he doesn't....given how the establishment continually implied that Trump (and more importantly elements of his supporters) would not have done so if Trump lost badly like they predicted.

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## Clutch

Oscar said:


> Public property destruction is unacceptable. This is not a third world country like India and Pakistan, we do not destroy our own nation.


Apparently it's getting there... wait and see once Trump nominates his cabinet... you have people like John Bolton, Rudy Julian etc waiting to get theirs.

I have said thisany times... it isn't about trump... it's going to be the people who come along with him that's the concern. I bet in 3years from now usa will face a huge constitutional political crisis. One that will forever transform the nation to an unrecognizable one.


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## Nilgiri

Still not one word from Obama and Hillary regarding things like this:

http://www.king5.com/news/local/more-trump-protests-thursday-night/350970854


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## forsigmar

ultron said:


> The MSM is controlled by the powerful elites. In the 2020 election Trump would have the entire MSM behind him. Eric Trump and Tiffany Trump are expected to go into politics and leave The Trump Organization to Donald Trump Jr. and Ivanka Trump. That would boost him significantly. Expect a landslide victory for him in 2020.


US doesn't need another political dynasty. No more clintons and bushes. Chelsea Clinton is being groomed for congress, how messed up is that.


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## cloud4000

Oscar said:


> Those who oppose Trump have a chance to correct their non voting and third party candidate stupidity,



Voting third-party had nothing to do with Clinton losing or Trump winning. I voted Libertarian (and always have) and most of the votes came from disaffected GOP supporters. No it was the non-voters who killed Clinton, especially Democrats who chose to stay home, especially angry Bernie Sanders supporters.


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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> Right. So Obama at the very least needs to come out and state this unequivocally right now (and preferably as soon as it started happening....but that has somewhat elapsed now). Hillary also following in releasing this statement is required as well I feel.
> 
> I am somewhat surprised that he hasn't....and it will be quite telling if he doesn't....given how the establishment continually implied that Trump (and more importantly elements of his supporters) would not have done so if Trump lost badly like they predicted.


The left never compromises. The left is violent and uses violent means to achieve its goals. Just look at history, in every country where Leftists have taken power they ruthlessly eliminated those whom they call their "class enemies". They call for agitation, the destruction of private property, they slander their opponents in hopes of silencing them, they don't respect the rule of law so long as those laws do not favor them.

It's not the Republicans who need to "settle down" (as someone suggested) because it's not the Republicans who are burning down entire neighborhoods and attacking innocent people because of the candidate those people lawfully voted for, rather it's the LEFT, the so called "liberals", the so called "progressives", the so called "open minded" ones, the so called "anti-Establishment"ers who in fact are hand in hand with the establishment (George Soros, MSM, NeoCons).

No Republicans rioted or burned down neighborhoods or attacked Democrat voters when Obama won two terms as POTUS, despite all of the damage he's done to this country, they respected his victory and accepted him for two full terms. Yet it hasn't even been a week since President-elect Trump won the election FAIR & SQUARE despite all of the odds stacked against him: the Media, the NeoCons, the foreign Lobbyists, the Multi-National corporations, the Democrats, the establishment Republicans (who back-stabbed him), even Obama didn't spare the chance to bash Trump; they all did their best to pull him down, throw dirt on him, make him out to be the devil incarnate because they fear he will roll back all of their plans, and yet these pathetic leftists pretend to be anti-establishment but are in fact tools of the establishment by attacking the only man whom the establishment hate with a passion..

Trump is the real anti-establishment. Trump is the underdog. Trump is the revolutionary against the current corrupt system. Not these fake @$$ socialist wannabe iPhone using ungrateful brats who have it way too easy and who have no problem sh!tting where they sleep. F@ckin starbucks sipping faggs who want free stuff at the expense of hard working Americans tax money.

These people are parasites. They only speak the language of violence, and therefore it is only violence they understand. They have no respect for soft men who appease them. Soft men only end up losing their heads in the end at the hands of these thugs (see Czar Nicholas II who freed Lenin & Trotsky from prison only for them to later torture him and his family to death and then dismember and mutilate their bodies).






They accuse anyone even slightly right of them as a "Fascist" and "Nazi", even though Trump is no where near even a damn conservative, let alone a f@cking "Fascist" or a "Nazi", but one day these starbucks sipping p*ssies will get a real Fascist on their hands with the way they keep pushing the ordinary peaceful Americans towards the edge of extreme, after all Hitler wasn't a billionaire real estate dealer, he was in fact an average working class man who got tired of their sh!t and gave them a taste of their own violence, bigotry, and intolerance. All Fascist movements were a product of leftists doing the sh!t they do best: aggravate and agitate.

















@T-72 @flamer84 @C130​

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## powastick



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## forsigmar

powastick said:


>


Wow. Hilarious


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## T-72



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## James David

No thanks Grandpa it rains 360 days a year in the UK!!! English gals dont wear swimsuits bwahahahahahaha!!! I'd rather stay here in the colonies!



Blue Marlin said:


> @James Jaevid i just refurbed my cabin, if you want you can come move to the uk but bring a coat.
> 
> ahhhh murica!!!!!!!!

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## Blue Marlin

James Jaevid said:


> No thanks Grandpa it rains 360 days a year in the UK!!! English gals dont wear swimsuits bwahahahahahaha!!! I'd rather stay here in the colonies!


depends on where you live northern girls wear skirts when its -5c and windy and cant tell whilst southern girls dress up as the marshmellow man when its -5c.

and no it does not rain 365 days a year it did not rain yesterday.
i never asked what state do you live in ?
and are you republicain or democrat?


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## James David

Hahahahahaha!!! -5c? Really? This I got to see!!!! 

I'm from the Big Apple Grandpa!!! 

Republican. But what's the difference nowadays?



Blue Marlin said:


> depends on where you live northern girls wear skirts when its -5c and windy and cant tell whilst southern girls dress up as the marshmellow man when its -5c.
> 
> and no it does not rain 365 days a year it did not rain yesterday.
> i never asked what state do you live in ?
> and are you republicain or democrat?


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## ashok321

Here you go for a little shocker:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/797651009635921921


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## Blue Marlin

James Jaevid said:


> Hahahahahaha!!! -5c? Really? This I got to see!!!!
> 
> I'm from the Big Apple Grandpa!!!
> 
> Republican. But what's the difference nowadays?


i thought nyc was democratic territory or are you the odd red neck?
id imagine you to be from texas or ohio or maybe kansas
oh and yeah i saw that last year december of last year it was easily -5c at 7pm im walking across the street in multiple layers and i see a bunch of gilrs walking past me [overtaking] in skirts.
mind you it is a sterio type that northern girls are more .....er........"hardy" then their southern counterparts.


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## flamer84

This might seem childlish but I can get enough of these hypocrites tears and butthurt.

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## T-72

flamer84 said:


> This might seem childlish but I can get enough of these hypocrites tears and butthurt.

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## ashok321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/797715018066206722

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## flamer84

T-72 said:


>


These idiots haven t learned a thing,they still think they hold the absolute truth,that they can scold the people when things don t go their way.

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## Mugwop

The only way these anti-trump protests will end if he apologizes for his remarks.It's not so hard

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## ptldM3

Mugwop said:


> The only way these anti-trump protests will end if he apologizes for his remarks.It's not so hard




Apologize for what? You obviously don't know how liberal leftists operate, it's their way or nothing. You can't reason with them, they won't even listen to facts, all they know is violence and calling people racist and intolerant while they themselves use racial slurs and attack the innocent.

Half of the things people scold Trump for are made up, the other half is taken out of context. There is all sorts of lies about him, such as he hates gays and blacks yet there is zero evidence to back it up. People accuse him of being some crazy warmonger when he actually has stated he wants to get out of the Middle East and get along with countries. On the other hand Hillary is made out to be an angel when she is openly pushing for wars. She was for Yugoslavia, Libya and Iraq, she has threatened whipping Iran off the map. She wants war with Syria which can cause a conflict with Russia and she stated that cyber attacks should be dealt with, with military force.

Clearly she is bat shit psychotic but the media plays it the other way. You have a bunch of leftis, liberal crybabies that are by their nature unreasonable. Much of this is the fault of the media for the hysteria they caused but that is expected, leaked emails confirmed that Hillary and the Democrats were working together with the media to sway public opinion. Dozens of journalists from every major news network and publications minus Fox eww were privately meeting with her campaign chairman. The media fed the monster.

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## Zibago

Dejavu 
@django @Moonlight @The Sandman @The Eagle @Arsalan

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## T-72



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## Mugwop

ptldM3 said:


> Apologize for what? You obviously don't know how liberal leftists operate, it's their way or nothing. You can't reason with them, they won't even listen to facts, all they know is violence and calling people racist and intolerant while they themselves use racial slurs and attack the innocent.
> 
> Half of the things people scold Trump for are made up, the other half is taken out of context. There is all sorts of lies about him, such as he hates gays and blacks yet there is zero evidence to back it up. People accuse him of being some crazy warmonger when he actually has stated he wants to get out of the Middle East and get along with countries. On the other hand Hillary is made out to be an angel when she is openly pushing for wars. She was for Yugoslavia, Libya and Iraq, she has threatened whipping Iran off the map. She wants war with Syria which can cause a conflict with Russia and she stated that cyber attacks should be dealt with, with military force.
> 
> Clearly she is bat shit psychotic but the media plays it the other way. You have a bunch of leftis, liberal crybabies that are by their nature unreasonable. Much of this is the fault of the media for the hysteria they caused but that is expected, leaked emails confirmed that Hillary and the Democrats were working together with the media to sway public opinion. Dozens of journalists from every major news network and publications minus Fox eww were privately meeting with her campaign chairman. The media fed the monster.



trump supporters take the cake when it comes to bigotry and violence,Liberal leftists are no match for them in this field.
Hillary is a no angel but trump loves to fire people,Imagine him with nukes
He should apologize to Mr Khan's wife

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## ptldM3

Mugwop said:


> trump supporters take the cake when it comes to bigotry and violence,Liberal leftists are no match for them in this field.







You're another person that has been suckered into the leftists idiology. Show me Trump supporters committing 5% of what the leftists are doing. There are videos of leftists violently beating Trump supporters and screaming racial slurs at them, look at all the riots, tens of thousands of people are rioting, killing and destroying property. How many right wing people rioted when Obama won the presidency? Go ahead, how many?

This has been happening before Trump even won, the leftists liberals have been attacking Trump supporters for months now.






Mugwop said:


> Hillary is a no angel but trump loves to fire people,Imagine him with nukes
> He should apologize to Mr Khan's wife.





Yea, imagine Trump with nukes. You are thinking just like the dumb leftists with these hypocritical questions that don't line up with reality. Trump is very anti war, while Clinton is the most militaristic US politician ever. It's people like you that cause these riots with your hysteria, yes I have imagined Trump with nukes and nothing came of it.

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## T-72

Mugwop said:


> trump supporters take the cake when it comes to bigotry and violence,Liberal leftists are no match for them in this field.
> Hillary is a no angel but trump loves to fire people,Imagine him with nukes
> He should apologize to Mr Khan's wife


Trump supporters never rioted, it was always the anti Trump movement people who were the more aggressive ones. 

The mainstream media really is pathetic for continuing to push a false narrative even after he's won.

Trump already said many times that he thought captain Khan was a hero, and that he would have been alive if he were president then. The media need to stop putting him on air now, and not that his son's sacrifice was any less than others' but Trump has huge support from hundreds, if not thousands of gold star families.

The Dems should lick their wounds, get rid of ineffective bad leaders like crooked hillary in their party and gear up to fight politically in 2 years, and then in 4 for the white house again and stop crying. They're making a mockery of the process and shaming the US in front of the whole world.

my prediction: Trump's popularity will continue to grow in the years and months ahead and he's going to best Reagan in how fondly they remember him when he's finally done, which will be in 8 years.

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## ultron

After Trump's 2nd term, Pence would run as VP. Pence looks like that creepy preacher guy in Poltergeist 2.

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## T-72

ptldM3 said:


> Trump is very anti war, while Clinton is the most militaristic US politician ever.


True about evil crooked Hillary but I have a word of caution for all who cheered for Trump based on his non interventionist, anti foreign war/anti Bush admin stance. Let's wait and see, election rhetoric is very different from what politicians actually get down to doing, the world is a fluid situation, and as POTUS he might find himself compelled to act in ways that disappoint people on certain issues (both domestic and foreign). 

_*"sometimes you have to fold"*_






and I say that as one of those fervent long time Trump supporters who backed him right from the primaries.

for now all we can say for sure is that he's a breath of fresh air with his ideas, and I say the whole world should get behind him and support him for the next few years, give him some time to straighten things out.


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## Nilgiri

T-72 said:


>



"But then again what is Cher?....a ball of gas"

My reaction:






Owen Shroyer, I am glad this talent has been discovered ever since skrillex/carl the cuck which was just awesome.

You remember that one @T-72 @Desert Fox ?






 ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!



ashok321 said:


> Here you go for a little shocker:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/797651009635921921



No one intelligent gives a damn about the Soros cucks.

I know you have me on ignore, but this is a video for everyone else to watch:






First Modi, then Brexit and now Trump....you must be having a really bad migraine "ashok"....and I am glad for that....and may it be a permanent one.

Your liberal cuck tears taste very good, keep them coming.

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## flamer84

Mugwop said:


> The only way these anti-trump protests will end if he apologizes for his remarks.It's not so hard



There is nothing to apologise for and,CERTAINLY,there is nothing to discuss with the zombies protesting right now.These people are brainwashed,they are extremists and ,first of all,they're the first who don't want to compromise their ideology with othere.They think they have the absolute truth and the only solution for you is to bow to the warped image they have of this world.This is who they are,they're the product of this (and no,the Russians didn't do it,they just know the tecnique):






These people are just as fanatic and dangerous like the KKK types.Just like a clan member can't be convinced that a non white is a person like them,you just can't convince these leftist extremists that their world isn't the perfect world.But,I was wrong earlier,they're not as dangerous as the KKK ,they're FAR MORE dangerous because the KKK is on the fringe,we see them as crazies while these zombies are promoted as normal by the MSM.

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## Desert Fox

*Trump Vows to Cut Funding for ISIS, Affirms Support For Russia and Assad*​





*President-elect Trump appears to reiterate his position that an alliance with Syrian and Russian governments to defeat Isis is his preferred way forward in the Syrian conflict *


Bethan McKernan Beirut
Saturday 12 November 2016
473 comments
*President-elect Donald Trump has reaffirmed his campaign trail position that assisting the Syrian government in fighting Isis should be the US’ main objective in Syria, despite appeals from rebels for continued help in their fight against President Bashar al-Assad.*

*“I’ve had an opposite view of many people regarding Syria. My attitude was you’re fighting Syria, Syria is fighting Isis, and you have to get rid of Isis,”* he said in a wide-ranging interview with the _Wall Street Journal _on Friday.

Mr Trump has stated that while he “did not like [Mr Assad] at all”, shoring up his regime is the best way to stem the extremism that has flourished in the chaos of the civil war and threatens the US.

*He has also been emphatic about mending ties with Russia, Syria’s long-standing ally and military backer in the conflict.*

“Russia is now totally aligned with Syria, and now you have Iran, which is becoming powerful, because of us, is aligned with Syria… Now *we’re backing rebels against Syria, and we have no idea who those people are,” *he told the Journal, referring to the hardline Sunni Islamist elements present in rebel ranks. If the US attacks Mr Assad, “We end up fighting Russia,” he added.

*Mr Trump’s shock victory in the US election this week was welcomed by Moscow and Tehran, as well as Damascus*, where aides to Mr Assad were cautiously optimistic in interviews on Thursday. The president is “ready” to cooperate with Mr Trump going forward, they said.

To date the *US has tacitly supported rebels in Syria both logistically and financially, along with Turkey and Gulf allies Saudi Arabia and Qatar.*

The long-standing US position has been that Mr Assad must be removed from power and democratic elections take place to end the complex and multisided conflict, now in its sixth year.

Mr Assad's military strategy - including air strikes targeting civilian infrastructure, siege tactics and alleged use of chemical weapons - has been responsible for far more civilian deaths since 2011 than rebel groups or Isis militants, analysts and monitors say.

*Democrat nominee Hillary Clinton had proposed a no-fly-zone over Syria*, a position rebels had been hopeful could stem the aerial attacks that have turned the tide of the war in Mr Assad’s favour since Russia began lending the Syrian government military support in September 2015.

After Mr Trump’s victory this week, the main Syrian opposition group the Syrian National Coalition (SNC) reached out to his staff asking him to protect civilians.

President Anas Al-Abdah said the SNC had sent Mr Trump its congratulations and was in touch about a “comprehensive new approach” to Syria.

The US must “establish peace in our region and to find fair and swift solutions for the threat of terrorism... especially the state terrorism practiced by the Syrian regime against the Syrian people,” Riad Hijab, head of the opposition High Negotiations Committee, said in a statement on Wednesday.

Other rebels on the ground were less enthusiastic, predicting more bloodshed no matter what Mr Trump’s policy ultimately ends up being on a war which has killed more than 400,000 people to date and driven half the Syrian population from their homes.

“I guess most Syrians are reacting in a similar way today, trying to hide their disappointment by making [jokes],” said Wissam Zarqa, a rebel media activist in besieged east Aleppo.

“We live in hope... but the only bright side to this is that we will not live on false promises now,” he added, referring to the international community’s inability to stop Russian air strikes on the area’s 250,000 trapped civilians.

“With [US President] Obama, we had enough of his false promises and fake red lines.”

Abu Hamed, head of the military council of rebel group Liwa al-Haq Brigade, was similarly dismissive. “The Americans were never honest with us,” he said, speaking from Hama. “They left us in a quagmire that drowned the Syrians... everyone is trading with our blood and suffering.”

@vostok @flamer84 @C130 @T-72 @Nilgiri @Serpentine



Mugwop said:


> The only way these anti-trump protests will end if he apologizes for his remarks.It's not so hard


Apologize? F*ck that!  , i say let these sh!tlibs burn the whole b!tch down, they're only making themselves look bad.

If you think these sh!tlibs and their riots will somehow blackmail Trump into apologizing then you have another thing coming.






Mugwop said:


> trump supporters take the cake when it comes to bigotry and violence,Liberal leftists are no match for them in this field.


Yep, it's Trump supporters who are rioting and burning down neighborhoods right now. Oh, wait, that's the sh!tlibs who are doing that and you were excusing their behavior a couple of posts ago.



Mugwop said:


> Hillary is a no angel but trump loves to fire people,Imagine him with nukes



Enjoy while you eat your own words:

*Jill Stein: "Hillary Clinton Will Start Nuclear War With Russia In Syria"*






Mugwop said:


> He should apologize to Mr Khan



You mean that old buffoon who digs up his son every time his massa Hillary commands him to? That guy has no self respect for himself or *his son, who BTW died in a useless war that your candidate Hillary supported and in which more than 1,000,000 Iraqis died as a result and Al-Qaeda/ISIS was able to spread in the Levant. *

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## ultron

A white man is president again. Order has been restored.


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## Nilgiri

ultron said:


> A white man is president again. Order has been restored.


----------



## Desert Fox

*Trump Reveals Plan To Immediately Deport 3 Million Illegals After Inauguration In January*​




President-elect Donald Trump’s hard-line immigration stance was a central part of his campaign message in 2016 -- and he said in an interview airing Sunday that he plans to immediately deport approximately two to three million undocumented immigrants.

*“What we are going to do is get the people that are criminal and have criminal records, gang members, drug dealers, where a lot of these people, probably two million, it could be even three million, we are getting them out of our country or we are going to incarcerate,” Trump said in an interview with CBS’ “60 Minutes.” “But we’re getting them out of our country, they’re here illegally.”*

He continued by saying that after the border is “secure,” immigration officials will begin to make a “determination” about the remaining undocumented immigrants in the U.S.

“After the border is secure and after everything gets normalized, we’re going to make a determination on the people that they’re talking about who are terrific people, they’re terrific people but we are gonna make a determination at that,” he said. “But before we make that determination...it’s very important, we are going to secure our border.”

Asked whether he really plans to build a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border -- a proposal that served as a centerpiece of his campaign message -- Trump replied, “Yes.”

Since Trump’s election on Tuesday night, the realities of actually building that wall have begun to set in. The Mexican government has publicly reminded him that Mexico will not pay for the wall. And asked about the wall, Trump transition co-chair Newt Gingrich said the wall was “a great campaign device.”

Trump also told “60 Minutes” that the border wall, which was one of the centerpieces of his campaign platform, could be part wall and “some fencing,” in accordance with what congressional Republicans have proposed.

“For certain areas I would, but certain areas, a wall is more appropriate,” he said. “I’m very good at this, it’s called construction.”

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## ultron

Time to kick these illegal fags to where they come from. Democrats have cultivated minorities for votes for decades. Not anymore. White men established America. White men built America. White men made America the most powerful nation on the face of the this planet. White men taking it back. Adios muchachos.

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## KAL-EL

ultron said:


> After Trump's 2nd term, Pence would run as VP. Pence looks like that creepy preacher guy in Poltergeist 2.




LMAO after a very long day, the second half off your comment honestly made my night 


Speaking of comments, this thread is really turning into some serious entertainment Quality Gold.


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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> After Mr Trump’s victory this week, the main Syrian opposition group the Syrian National Coalition (SNC) reached out to his staff asking him to protect civilians.


Trump should respond by carpet bombing all their friends and families.


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## Zibago

T-72 said:


> Trump should respond by carpet bombing all their friends and families.


You tried it in Afghanistan how did that turn out?


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## ultron

Personally, I'm sick and tired of identical politics. Male this. Female that. This race. That race. This religion. That religion. This sexual orientation. That sexual orientation. It's all bullshit. It's absolutely crazy.

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## T-72

Zibago said:


> You tried it in Afghanistan how did that turn out?


nope, NATO fought like sissies in Afghanistan, so many vids of taliban just dumping their guns and walking away from firefights with groups of children as cover, and US forces would just curse while having them in their sights.

I don't expect Trump to go against the Geneva conventions, but it would be great if he did. Kill terrorist families, make sure there is no second generation.


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## Clutch

T-72 said:


> nope, NATO fought like sissies in Afghanistan, so many vids of taliban just dumping their guns and walking away from firefights with groups of children as cover, and US forces would just curse while having them in their sights.
> 
> I don't expect Trump to go against the Geneva conventions, but it would be great if he did. Kill terrorist families, make sure there is no second generation.



Maybe you were confusing them for the retarded coward arab isis...

How is a 5 year old particularly a terrorist family?

The Talibs pretty much kicked ***... armed with nothing but a AK and a rudimentary rpg.

They will fight for 1000 years.... Do you even know what the word Afghan means?


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## T-72

Clutch said:


> How is a 5 year old particularly a terrorist family?
> 
> The Talibs pretty much kicked ***... armed with nothing but a AK and a rudimentary rpg.
> 
> They will fight for 1000 years.... Do you even know what the ward Afghan means?


if there are terrorists hanging around 5 year olds, then those 5 year olds should be expendable. Take Syria for example, where the terrorists hide among civvie populations and blame the forces when there are casualties.

US fight with hands tied behind their back, these rats are otherwise no match for them.

Trump is right, go after their families. I don't know if he will but the idea is right.

also, your ninja edit failed, haha @Clutch outed as a Taliban fan boy !


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## Clutch

T-72 said:


> if there are terrorists hanging around 5 year olds, then those 5 year olds should be expendable. Take Syria for example, where the terrorists hide among civvie populations and blame the forces when there are casualties.
> 
> US fight with hands tied behind their back, these rats are otherwise no match for them.
> 
> Trump is right, go after their families. I don't know if he will but the idea is right.




I guess that too was the logic of the 9/11 hijackers... well if there are people in those building those suckers are expendable.... ?

Lol... welcome to Afghanistan... I'll grab a bag of pop corn.... Live leak would be worth visiting again.



T-72 said:


> if there are terrorists hanging around 5 year olds, then those 5 year olds should be expendable. Take Syria for example, where the terrorists hide among civvie populations and blame the forces when there are casualties.
> 
> US fight with hands tied behind their back, these rats are otherwise no match for them.
> 
> Trump is right, go after their families. I don't know if he will but the idea is right.
> 
> also, your ninja edit failed, haha @Clutch outed as a Taliban fan boy !



Nah... just against Yankees in the neighbourhood...

Real my posts... blow back... is a bitch



T-72 said:


> if there are terrorists hanging around 5 year olds, then those 5 year olds should be expendable. Take Syria for example, where the terrorists hide among civvie populations and blame the forces when there are casualties.
> 
> US fight with hands tied behind their back, these rats are otherwise no match for them.
> 
> Trump is right, go after their families. I don't know if he will but the idea is right.
> 
> also, your ninja edit failed, haha @Clutch outed as a Taliban fan boy !



Unless those 5 year old are blue eyes blond haired... let's say a terrorist in North Dakota hides behind a bus full of 5 year old blue eyes blond haired kids... blow the bus along with the terrorist?

I think you wouldnt wanna ... neither would I... but you are sectiive in your 5 year old...


Oh BTW... I am pro Trump. Read my past posts. I think he is the best think to ever happen to the USA. I really look forward to his neocon cabinet of John Bolton, Rudy Julian, newt Gingrich, my all time favourite Jose Rodriguez.... Go Team America.... And yes Sarah Palin... i hope she makes energy secatary.... Golly gee wiliker!


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## Zibago

T-72 said:


> nope, NATO fought like sissies in Afghanistan, so many vids of taliban just dumping their guns and walking away from firefights with groups of children as cover, and US forces would just curse while having them in their sights.
> 
> I don't expect Trump to go against the Geneva conventions, but it would be great if he did. Kill terrorist families, make sure there is no second generation.


You cant bomb terrorist into submission unless you plan on occupying the territory they control for decades thats a childish view

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## TaiShang

*Someone Should Tell Putin to Shut Up about Trump Lest He Prompt an Upset When the Electoral College Votes*

Innocent comments are fueling the cause advanced by enemies of improved US-Russia relations.

William Dunkerley
Sat, Nov 12, 2016 





Russian President Vladimir Putin congratulated Donald Trump for his election victory," said _Newsweek_. A _Washington Post_ headline read, "Putin: 'Trump's first statements give us hope.'"

But these and other positively expectant statements seem to be backfiring on Putin. Look at the headlines that followed:

--"_Vladimir Putin, Russians cheer Donald Trump's victory_," Washington Times
--"_Surprise! Trump was a Putin puppet all along_," Daily Kos
--"_For Russia and Putin, a Surprise Gift From America_," New York Times
--"_How Vladimir Putin won the US election_," AOL News
--"_Putin gains Trump card in geopolitical poker game_," Reuters

There undoubtedly would have been negative news stories even if Putin had not been so publically pleased about Trump's victory. But his triumphalism gave his critics more ammunition.

It looks to me like the Kremlin is already overplaying its hand. There's nothing to be gained but much to be lost when Putin is broadcasting his joy over Trump's election. *Somebody should put a sock in Putin's mouth.* Let him keep his point of view to himself for now.

I can understand Putin's belief that Trump might be able to set US-Russia relations on a better course. But Trump was not crowned king and will have a lot of entrenched domestic opposition to deal with.

Putin should be mindful that better relations with Russia is not a top priority topic for Trump. To get congressional support for his pet plans he will have to get the cooperation of members of Congress. Many of them either receive significant financial support for being anti Russian or have a lot of past negative rhetoric to back away from.

It's not hard to imagine deal-maker Trump selling out Russia in order to get cooperation on matters he deems more important.

And then there's also the American government bureaucracy that is filled with people with deep convictions about how bad Putin and Russia are.

Achieving better US-Russia relations will be no cakewalk. It's doable but not easily or simply.

I'm told by a well-connected and reliable source that Putin's comments on Trump's election were well thought-out and carefully said. But what was "carefully said" was grist enough for the adversarial Western media. They blew it into big "news stories" that support the malicious allegations that played such a conspicuous role in the campaign.

These stories confirm to the disinterested or gullible American public all the Clintonite warnings that a treacherous Putin-Trump connection secretly exists. There's no defense for such lack of journalistic integrity in the cited stories. But it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to have seen this coming.

Perhaps leadership on the issue from Trump can turn this around. But I won't hold my breath. Putin, meanwhile, should hold his tongue.

And another thing: There seems to be an embryonic effort to bring about an upset when the Electoral College votes.

If Putin keeps wagging his tongue he might very well have an impact on who is ultimately sworn in as POTUS after all. Can't someone tell Putin and his cronies to shut up?

http://russia-insider.com/en/someon...pt-upset-when-electoral-college-votes/ri17543

**

Wow @US neo-fascist media.

@vostok , @BRICSFTW

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## T-72

Clutch said:


> Nah... just against Yankees in the neighbourhood...


yep, you'd much rather have the Talibs running thing in Afghanistan again.



Clutch said:


> blue eyes blond haired


plenty of "blue eyed blond haired" Syrians fighting with FSA, Nusra, Qaeda and ISIS etc



Clutch said:


> you are sectiive in your 5 year old...


My point was that all of them (bad guys) need to be wiped out, that there might be civvie casualties should be no reason to not drop those bombs like has been happening under a limp-wristed weak Obama admin, sorties returning with all the munitions still sitting nicely on the pylons because the chain of command went all the way up to Obama himself in many cases.



Clutch said:


> Oh BTW... I am pro Trump. Read my past posts. I think he is the best think to ever happen to the USA. I really look forward to his neocon cabinet of John Bolton, Rudy Julian, newt Gingrich, my all time favourite Jose Rodriguez.... Go Team America.... And yes Sarah Palin... i hope she makes energy secatary.... Golly gee wiliker!


He has to hire from the pool of talent that's available to him. I have no problem with him appointing the likes of John Bolton et all to important positions just as long as he remains his own man and overrules or dismisses their advice should they tell him to support the rebels or enforce a no fly zone to shoot down Russian planes etc.

Sarah Palin is not getting anything significant lol



Zibago said:


> You cant bomb terrorist into submission unless you plan on accoupying the territory they control for decades thats a childish view


A stronger more assertive US policy in the middle east, not the insanity of Bush, not the weak duplicitous acts of Obama.

stop support for the rebels, reign in Turkey, Saudia and Qatar etc, work with Russia, no more regime change, bomb ISIS into oblivion and retake all territory they control, all this is common sense and can be done.


----------



## Clutch

T-72 said:


> yep, you'd much rather have the Talibs running thing in Afghanistan again.
> 
> 
> plenty of "blue eyed blond haired" Syrians fighting with FSA, Nusra, Qaeda and ISIS etc
> 
> 
> My point was that all of them (bad guys) need to be wiped out, that there might be civvie casualties should be no reason to not drop those bombs like has been happening under a limp-wristed weak Obama admin, sorties returning with all the munitions still sitting nicely on the pylons because the chain of command went all the way up to Obama himself in many cases.
> 
> 
> He has to hire from the pool of talent that's available to him. I have no problem with him appointing the likes of John Bolton et all to important positions just as long as he remains his own man and overrules or dismisses their advice should they tell him to support the rebels or enforce a no fly zone to shoot down Russian planes etc.
> 
> Sarah Palin is not getting anything significant lol
> 
> 
> A stronger more assertive US policy in the middle east, not the insanity of Bush, not the weak duplicitous acts of Obama.
> 
> stop support for the rebels, reign in Turkey, Saudia and Qatar etc, work with Russia, no more regime change, bomb ISIS into oblivion and retake all territory they control, all this is common sense and can be done.



Nah... not Syrian blonder.. Yankee doodle singing type... 


Good luck with... our future is with china. ...Go Trump... i hope he bans all them crazie moslems... 

Too bad the $50/hr steel jobs or pushing a button ain't coming back... and raju patel on h1b has the white collar one...


----------



## Nilgiri

TaiShang said:


> *Someone Should Tell Putin to Shut Up about Trump Lest He Prompt an Upset When the Electoral College Votes*
> 
> Innocent comments are fueling the cause advanced by enemies of improved US-Russia relations.
> 
> William Dunkerley
> Sat, Nov 12, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian President Vladimir Putin congratulated Donald Trump for his election victory," said _Newsweek_. A _Washington Post_ headline read, "Putin: 'Trump's first statements give us hope.'"
> 
> But these and other positively expectant statements seem to be backfiring on Putin. Look at the headlines that followed:
> 
> --"_Vladimir Putin, Russians cheer Donald Trump's victory_," Washington Times
> --"_Surprise! Trump was a Putin puppet all along_," Daily Kos
> --"_For Russia and Putin, a Surprise Gift From America_," New York Times
> --"_How Vladimir Putin won the US election_," AOL News
> --"_Putin gains Trump card in geopolitical poker game_," Reuters
> 
> There undoubtedly would have been negative news stories even if Putin had not been so publically pleased about Trump's victory. But his triumphalism gave his critics more ammunition.
> 
> It looks to me like the Kremlin is already overplaying its hand. There's nothing to be gained but much to be lost when Putin is broadcasting his joy over Trump's election. *Somebody should put a sock in Putin's mouth.* Let him keep his point of view to himself for now.
> 
> I can understand Putin's belief that Trump might be able to set US-Russia relations on a better course. But Trump was not crowned king and will have a lot of entrenched domestic opposition to deal with.
> 
> Putin should be mindful that better relations with Russia is not a top priority topic for Trump. To get congressional support for his pet plans he will have to get the cooperation of members of Congress. Many of them either receive significant financial support for being anti Russian or have a lot of past negative rhetoric to back away from.
> 
> It's not hard to imagine deal-maker Trump selling out Russia in order to get cooperation on matters he deems more important.
> 
> And then there's also the American government bureaucracy that is filled with people with deep convictions about how bad Putin and Russia are.
> 
> Achieving better US-Russia relations will be no cakewalk. It's doable but not easily or simply.
> 
> I'm told by a well-connected and reliable source that Putin's comments on Trump's election were well thought-out and carefully said. But what was "carefully said" was grist enough for the adversarial Western media. They blew it into big "news stories" that support the malicious allegations that played such a conspicuous role in the campaign.
> 
> These stories confirm to the disinterested or gullible American public all the Clintonite warnings that a treacherous Putin-Trump connection secretly exists. There's no defense for such lack of journalistic integrity in the cited stories. But it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to have seen this coming.
> 
> Perhaps leadership on the issue from Trump can turn this around. But I won't hold my breath. Putin, meanwhile, should hold his tongue.
> 
> And another thing: There seems to be an embryonic effort to bring about an upset when the Electoral College votes.
> 
> If Putin keeps wagging his tongue he might very well have an impact on who is ultimately sworn in as POTUS after all. Can't someone tell Putin and his cronies to shut up?
> 
> http://russia-insider.com/en/someon...pt-upset-when-electoral-college-votes/ri17543
> 
> **
> 
> Wow @US neo-fascist media.
> 
> @vostok , @BRICSFTW



Electoral college voting against Trump (mid december) will have no effect long run....because Congress has to vote on the electoral college decision in early January and they can effectively veto any potential EC shenanigans if it happens en masse (past a few faithless electors that dont change the result).

EC voting against trump (and against what the people voted for in their states) will just be a stalling tactic at best if they do that....and much of the establishment will open themselves up to massive litigation and even more punitive action from Trump once he does get in.

Its a free world and Putin can continue to keep saying whatever he wants.


----------



## Zibago

T-72 said:


> yep, you'd much rather have the Talibs running thing in Afghanistan again.
> 
> 
> plenty of "blue eyed blond haired" Syrians fighting with FSA, Nusra, Qaeda and ISIS etc
> 
> 
> My point was that all of them (bad guys) need to be wiped out, that there might be civvie casualties should be no reason to not drop those bombs like has been happening under a limp-wristed weak Obama admin, sorties returning with all the munitions still sitting nicely on the pylons because the chain of command went all the way up to Obama himself in many cases.
> 
> 
> He has to hire from the pool of talent that's available to him. I have no problem with him appointing the likes of John Bolton et all to important positions just as long as he remains his own man and overrules or dismisses their advice should they tell him to support the rebels or enforce a no fly zone to shoot down Russian planes etc.
> 
> Sarah Palin is not getting anything significant lol
> 
> 
> A stronger more assertive US policy in the middle east, not the insanity of Bush, not the weak duplicitous acts of Obama.
> 
> stop support for the rebels, reign in Turkey, Saudia and Qatar etc, work with Russia, no more regime change, bomb ISIS into oblivion and retake all territory they control, all this is common sense and can be done.


Obama.s policy was weak wtf he destroyed Middle East because of a hawkish policy

Nope the best policy for US would be to support govt forces of Iraq a US intervention will strengthen ISIS not weaken it



T-72 said:


> yep, you'd much rather have the Talibs running thing in Afghanistan again.
> 
> 
> plenty of "blue eyed blond haired" Syrians fighting with FSA, Nusra, Qaeda and ISIS etc
> 
> 
> My point was that all of them (bad guys) need to be wiped out, that there might be civvie casualties should be no reason to not drop those bombs like has been happening under a limp-wristed weak Obama admin, sorties returning with all the munitions still sitting nicely on the pylons because the chain of command went all the way up to Obama himself in many cases.
> 
> 
> He has to hire from the pool of talent that's available to him. I have no problem with him appointing the likes of John Bolton et all to important positions just as long as he remains his own man and overrules or dismisses their advice should they tell him to support the rebels or enforce a no fly zone to shoot down Russian planes etc.
> 
> Sarah Palin is not getting anything significant lol
> 
> 
> A stronger more assertive US policy in the middle east, not the insanity of Bush, not the weak duplicitous acts of Obama.
> 
> stop support for the rebels, reign in Turkey, Saudia and Qatar etc, work with Russia, no more regime change, bomb ISIS into oblivion and retake all territory they control, all this is common sense and can be done.


Obama.s policy was weak wtf he destroyed Middle East because of a hawkish policy

Nope the best policy for US would be to support govt forces of Iraq a US intervention will strengthen ISIS not weaken it

By reigning in on Saudi,Turkey,Qatar you mean?
US already damaged relations with many of its East Asian allies you will help Russia and China if you continue this policy



Nilgiri said:


> Electoral college voting against Trump (mid december) will have no effect long run....because Congress has to vote on the electoral college decision in early January and they can effectively veto any potential EC shenanigans if it happens en masse (past a few faithless electors that dont change the result).
> 
> EC voting against trump (and against what the people voted for in their states) will just be a stalling tactic at best if they do that....and much of the establishment will open themselves up to massive litigation and even more punitive action from Trump once he does get in.
> 
> Its a free world and Putin can continue to keep saying whatever he wants.


I dont think we should put Putin and Trump in the same bracket 
He is not a xenophobe and he us also not a climate change denier


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## T-72

Zibago said:


> Obama.s policy was weak wtf he destroyed Middle East because of a hawkish policy
> 
> Nope the best policy for US would be to support govt forces of Iraq a US intervention will strengthen ISIS not weaken it


Obama is a fool. The way he handled the mess he inherited was really pathetic, he was like a doctor who instead of performing an emergency trauma surgery, pulled the plug. Should have fought harder for a SOFA and kept a residual force.

The Iraqis are already being supported by the US and are on the offensive but ISIS are in Syria too, they're headquartered there so Trump has no choice but to work with Russia, good thing he always wanted to do so, much much better idea than supporting FSA terrorists and blowing up Russian jets.



Zibago said:


> By reigning in on Saudi,Turkey,Qatar you mean?


stop them from supporting the rebels too. 

look, Syria is the most complicated war ever, nothing is going to be easy but I'm looking forward to see how Trump handles it, things are going to change quite drastically from the previous two administrations, that we can be sure of. (I think)



Zibago said:


> US already damaged relations with many of its East Asian allies you will help Russia and China if you continue this policy


which east Asian allies ? Duterte already made a U turn. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-philippines-usa-rifles-idUSKBN1390DY?il=0 lol



Zibago said:


> He is not a xenophobe and he us also not a climate change denier


but he's still a homophobe !





and a sexist ! 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Putins-incredibly-sexist-Hillary-Clinton.html

lol, loving the global liberal meltdown. 

moar: 







Trump's first big interview post elections: 
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/watch-donald-trump-discusses-his-election-victory-on-60-minutes/

good interview, much more measured.


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## Desert Fox

TaiShang said:


> --"_Vladimir Putin, Russians cheer Donald Trump's victory_," Washington Times
> --"_Surprise! Trump was a Putin puppet all along_," Daily Kos
> --"_For Russia and Putin, a Surprise Gift From America_," New York Times
> --"_How Vladimir Putin won the US election_," AOL News
> --"_Putin gains Trump card in geopolitical poker game_," Reuters


These are nothing but *sensationalist Leftist media propaganda headlines.* Sure, the Russians (and the whole world) are happy that there will now be someone in the White House with whom they can reason with, unlike Obama and Hillary who wanted to start a nuclear war with Russia over some "moderate" terrorists in Syria.

Also, the first foreign head of state to congratulate Trump was Sissi of Egypt who called in. Putin gave his congratulations as well, but it was no different from the congratulations other head of states gave to Trump so this bullsh!t media needs to shut its trap.

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## TaiShang

Nilgiri said:


> Electoral college voting against Trump (mid december) will have no effect long run....because Congress has to vote on the electoral college decision in early January and they can effectively veto any potential EC shenanigans if it happens en masse (past a few faithless electors that dont change the result).
> 
> EC voting against trump (and against what the people voted for in their states) will just be a stalling tactic at best if they do that....and much of the establishment will open themselves up to massive litigation and even more punitive action from Trump once he does get in.
> 
> Its a free world and Putin can continue to keep saying whatever he wants.





Desert Fox said:


> These are nothing but *sensationalist Leftist media propaganda headlines.* Sure, the Russians (and the whole world) are happy that there will now be someone in the White House with whom they can reason with, unlike Obama and Hillary who wanted to start a nuclear war with Russia over some "moderate" terrorists in Syria.
> 
> Also, the first foreign head of state to congratulate Trump was Sissi of Egypt who called in. Putin gave his congratulations as well, but it was no different from the congratulations other head of states gave to Trump so this bullsh!t media needs to shut its trap.




President Putin looks nasty, LOL.


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## Nevsky

TaiShang said:


> Wow @US neo-fascist media.


Dont understand them.2 years ago Obama said that we are just a regional power, with no friends, no allies and now they are crying bcs somehow we manipulate their elections.We are just a former superpower which can't produce anything, we cant do such a stuff to the sole superpower.

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## TaiShang

BRICSFTW said:


> Dont understand them.2 years ago Obama said that we are just a regional power, with no friends, no allies and now they are crying bcs somehow we manipulate their elections.We are just a former superpower which can't produce anything, we cant do such a stuff to the sole superpower.



Russia is the enemy of convenience.

It is a monster about to gobble up the West, when they need demonization.

Yet, it is also just a regular small power of a long gone empire. I think all is political talk to feed the masses as the situation requires.

Shows the level and quality of governance in that part of the world. The elite is not really concerned about informing citizens. They are concerned about maintaining their own class interests. Hence, in this case, truth and logic become secondary.

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## Gothic

I think from the US perspective , Russia is a threat to europe by its haggin' of the european far right skinheads , it's just a bunch of russians trying to influence people in europe by the very far right propaganda that US exports herself , and you can find on sites like stormfront , the non-american version of de-KKKed white supramicy ideology


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## ultron

Hillary didn't get a majority in popular vote. No point even discussing popular vote.

BTW, in 2008 Hillary won in popular vote against Obama and still lost in delegate count.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2008

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## Solomon2

*Trump Victory Sparks Mental Health Crisis Among Dejected Dems*
*Colleges offering trauma care*



Demonstrators holds banners as they protest during a march in downtown Washington in opposition of President-elect Donald Trump / AP


BY: Adam Kredo
November 14, 2016 3:05 pm

Liberal voters psychologically disturbed by the election of Donald Trump are seeking out care from mental health professionals, while colleges across the country seek to help students facing similar mental health crises in the wake of Trump’s surprise victory, according to interviews and reports.

Mental health professionals practicing in Washington, D.C. described an unprecedented increase in patients worried about the country’s future as a result of Trump’s victory over Democratic contender Hillary Clinton.

“This is very different,” said David Sternberg, founder and director of D.C. Talk Therapy, a psychotherapy group that practices in the District’s upscale Woodley Park neighborhood.

“This is pretty unprecedented,” Sternberg said, explaining that patients are expressing feelings of “anger, frustration, anxiety, [and] sadness.”

“A lot of current patients and clients have wanted to talk about the election,” he said, adding that moods are “the reverse” of what many patients felt in 2008 after the election of Barack Obama.

The election-season issues are also being felt on college campuses across the country, as many higher learning institutions offer mental health resources to students stunned by Trump’s victory.

George Mason University, located in the Virginia suburbs just outside of D.C., established a “healing space” on campus the day after Trump was declared the winner, according to campus-wide communications obtained by the _Washington Free Beacon_.

The university also posted “staff members” to a post-election event to “to provide support and refer students to campus resources, as needed,” according to a separate email sent to university students and faculty.

Many other prominent universities and colleges provided students with mental health resources and so-called “safe spaces” for healing.

One prominent Democratic operative informed the _Free Beacon_ that many in D.C.’s elite political ranks have been traumatized by the election result, with some even forming support groups.

“For these people, they really are shocked,” said the source, who declined to be identified due to the sensitivity of the issue. “It’s really a problem for them.”

These Democratic support groups aim to “to create a safe space” where participants can “express their feelings to each other,” explained the source, who recalled dejected Democratic players breaking “out into tears” during last Tuesday’s election.

“Prime real estate was already booked at some of the most in-demand spots in Washington,” the source added. “I’m sure there are a few people who got ball gowns and had to send them back.”

“Going into Tuesday night, we had all carefully planned out victory parties to celebrate,” said the Democratic operative. “But late into the evening, it became more of a wake then a party. Every time I hear the phrase President-elect Trump I can’t believe it. I feel like I’m living in an alternate universe. The dream I was expecting of welcoming President Hillary Clinton has become the nightmare of President Donald Trump.”

Surprise, outrage, and anguish also have gripped Jewish communities across the country, which overwhelmingly supported Clinton.

One Jewish-majority organization, We’ve Seen This Before, started a petition to support minority groups that are purportedly “threatened by the president-elect and his administration.”

“American Jews are a multiracial and multiethnic community, and 76 percent of us voted against Donald Trump,” the group wrote in an open letter posted online. “We voted against him because we know all too well the dangers of fascistic regimes that rise to power through stigmatization and scapegoating of vulnerable minority populations. And we felt—in our bodies and in our bones—that Trump was presenting a vision of the country completely at odds with our Jewish and American values.”


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## RabzonKhan



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## ultron

Fred Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu became good friends in the 1980s. Donald Trump hired Steve Bannon who is an exec at Breibart. Breitbart was founded by Andrew Breitbart who was a Jewish Zionist. Donald Trump says he will be the first president to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. All 8 of Donald Trump's grand kids are Jewish.

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## RabzonKhan

*How Donald Trump Is Bringing the Alt-Right to the White House

The former media mogul is Trump's link to the right-wing fringe
*
Personnel is policy, runs the old Washington saying. Which is why Republicans and Democrats alike are studying Donald Trump’s staff hires for clues of how the President-elect will govern. And so far one name sticks out: Steve Bannon, who was named Sunday as Trump’s chief strategist and senior counselor.

In one respect, Bannon’s appointment is not a surprise: he was already a member of Trump’s innermost circle, serving since late summer as chief executive of the businessman’s campaign. But in many others, Bannon is an unorthodox, even startling hire.

Trump’s new top White House adviser is best known as a purveyor of right-wing agitprop. As boss of Breitbart News, Bannon helped nurture the populist uprising that swept Trump to victory in the Republican primaries. He has battled for years to transform the GOP into a more hard-edged party and given voice to some of the unsavory forces floating around its fringe, including a resurgence of white nationalism.

Bannon took an unusual route to the West Wing. Born in Virginia to a family of working-class Democrats, he served a stint in the Navy, earned an MBA at Harvard and became a banker at Goldman Sachs. From there he launched a boutique investment bank that specialized in media—he walked away from one lucrative deal with royalties from _Seinfeld_—and began to moonlight as a Hollywood producer. About a decade ago, he began making conservative films, including hagiographic documentaries about the Tea Party and Sarah Palin. His entreé into Breitbart came when he loaned office space in Los Angeles to the site’s namesake.

*Bannon built Breitbart into a right-wing juggernaut. He did it by serving up an acid brand of ethno-nationalism that attacks Republicans nearly as much as it does Democrats. Breitbart opposes illegal immigration, global trade deals, cultural progressives *and Washington cronyism. The site often targets GOP leaders it sees as insufficiently conservative, helping to oust former House Majority Leader Eric Cantor and hounding former Speaker John Boehner to quit. This year it has pumped out a steady stream of articles attacking Paul Ryan, Boehner’s successor.

*It would be one thing if Breitbart were merely arch-conservative. What worries many Republicans is the way it has given a voice to fringe groups. “We’re the platform for the alt-right,” Bannon boasted to Mother Jonesmagazine in July, referring to the rising right-wing movement that includes anti-Semites and proponents of white nationalism.*

*Critics say Breitbart’s coverage is shot through with racism, xenophobia and misogyny. *Under Bannon’s editorial direction, it has accused Planned Parenthood of perpetuating a “Holocaust” by performing abortions. The site targets women (sample headlines: “There’s No Hiring Bias Against Women in Tech, They Just Suck at Interviews”; “Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy”; “The Solution to Online ‘Harassment’ is Simple: Women Should Log Off.”). It mocks the LGBT community (“Lesbian Bridezillas Bully Bridal Shop Over Religious Beliefs”). It foments fears about Muslim refugees (“Twin Falls Refugee Rape Special Report: Why are the Refugees Moving In?”).

*Breitbart has played up the prospects of a looming “race war” between whites and blacks. It often vilifies Black Lives Matter protesters. It promotes far-right parties across Europe. It published a piece whose headline called conservative pundit and Trump foe Bill Kristol a “renegade Jew.” Bannon himself has been accused of anti-Semitism. In a 2007 court filing, Bannon’s ex-wife alleged that he made anti-Semitic remarks and did not want his daughters “going to school with Jews,” according to multiple media outlets that reviewed the documents. (A spokesperson for Bannon has denied he made the comments.)*

Some former employees describe Bannon as a combative and vindictive figure. “He is legitimately one of the worst people I’ve ever dealt with,” former Breitbart writer Ben Shapiro told TIME after Trump hired Bannon. “He regularly abuses people. He sees everything as a war. Every time he feels crossed, he makes it his business to destroy his opponent.”

Kurt Bardella, a former Breitbart spokesman, told TIME that Bannon would often launch into “provocative, expletive-laced tirades about any demographic group you can possibly think of. That’s just how Steve is.”

Trump has mostly staffed his presidential transition team with veteran lobbyists and policymakers, the same Washington figures he campaigned against. That cheered many Republicans, who hope that after a combative campaign, the non-ideological President-elect might govern as a moderate. But Bannon’s perch at the top echelons of the White House is a clear sign that Trump plans to maintain links to the forces that propelled him into power.

“The racist, fascist extreme right is represented footsteps from the Oval Office,” tweeted GOP strategist John Weaver. *“Be very vigilant America.”*

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## Mugwop

flamer84 said:


> There is nothing to apologise for and,CERTAINLY,there is nothing to discuss with the zombies protesting right now.These people are brainwashed,they are extremists and ,first of all,they're the first who don't want to compromise their ideology with othere.They think they have the absolute truth and the only solution for you is to bow to the warped image they have of this world.This is who they are,they're the product of this (and no,the Russians didn't do it,they just know the tecnique):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These people are just as fanatic and dangerous like the KKK types.Just like a clan member can't be convinced that a non white is a person like them,you just can't convince these leftist extremists that their world isn't the perfect world.But,I was wrong earlier,they're not as dangerous as the KKK ,they're FAR MORE dangerous because the KKK is on the fringe,we see them as crazies while these zombies are promoted as normal by the MSM.


Dude I want the protests to end just as much as you do and the only way to end them is if trump offers an apology for his remarks.What other way is there?


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## JanjaWeed

Very interesting interpretation!

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## Desert Fox

Mugwop said:


> Dude I want the protests to end just as much as you do and the only way to end them is if trump offers an apology for his remarks.What other way is there?


No apologies here for intolerant leftist brats.

*It's simple: if they can't tolerate free-speech then they should move to North Korea.*



RabzonKhan said:


> *How Donald Trump Is Bringing the Alt-Right to the White House
> 
> The former media mogul is Trump's link to the right-wing fringe
> *
> Personnel is policy, runs the old Washington saying. Which is why Republicans and Democrats alike are studying Donald Trump’s staff hires for clues of how the President-elect will govern. And so far one name sticks out: Steve Bannon, who was named Sunday as Trump’s chief strategist and senior counselor.
> 
> In one respect, Bannon’s appointment is not a surprise: he was already a member of Trump’s innermost circle, serving since late summer as chief executive of the businessman’s campaign. But in many others, Bannon is an unorthodox, even startling hire.
> 
> Trump’s new top White House adviser is best known as a purveyor of right-wing agitprop. As boss of Breitbart News, Bannon helped nurture the populist uprising that swept Trump to victory in the Republican primaries. He has battled for years to transform the GOP into a more hard-edged party and given voice to some of the unsavory forces floating around its fringe, including a resurgence of white nationalism.
> 
> Bannon took an unusual route to the West Wing. Born in Virginia to a family of working-class Democrats, he served a stint in the Navy, earned an MBA at Harvard and became a banker at Goldman Sachs. From there he launched a boutique investment bank that specialized in media—he walked away from one lucrative deal with royalties from _Seinfeld_—and began to moonlight as a Hollywood producer. About a decade ago, he began making conservative films, including hagiographic documentaries about the Tea Party and Sarah Palin. His entreé into Breitbart came when he loaned office space in Los Angeles to the site’s namesake.
> 
> *Bannon built Breitbart into a right-wing juggernaut. He did it by serving up an acid brand of ethno-nationalism that attacks Republicans nearly as much as it does Democrats. Breitbart opposes illegal immigration, global trade deals, cultural progressives *and Washington cronyism. The site often targets GOP leaders it sees as insufficiently conservative, helping to oust former House Majority Leader Eric Cantor and hounding former Speaker John Boehner to quit. This year it has pumped out a steady stream of articles attacking Paul Ryan, Boehner’s successor.
> 
> *It would be one thing if Breitbart were merely arch-conservative. What worries many Republicans is the way it has given a voice to fringe groups. “We’re the platform for the alt-right,” Bannon boasted to Mother Jonesmagazine in July, referring to the rising right-wing movement that includes anti-Semites and proponents of white nationalism.*
> 
> *Critics say Breitbart’s coverage is shot through with racism, xenophobia and misogyny. *Under Bannon’s editorial direction, it has accused Planned Parenthood of perpetuating a “Holocaust” by performing abortions. The site targets women (sample headlines: “There’s No Hiring Bias Against Women in Tech, They Just Suck at Interviews”; “Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy”; “The Solution to Online ‘Harassment’ is Simple: Women Should Log Off.”). It mocks the LGBT community (“Lesbian Bridezillas Bully Bridal Shop Over Religious Beliefs”). It foments fears about Muslim refugees (“Twin Falls Refugee Rape Special Report: Why are the Refugees Moving In?”).
> 
> *Breitbart has played up the prospects of a looming “race war” between whites and blacks. It often vilifies Black Lives Matter protesters. It promotes far-right parties across Europe. It published a piece whose headline called conservative pundit and Trump foe Bill Kristol a “renegade Jew.” Bannon himself has been accused of anti-Semitism. In a 2007 court filing, Bannon’s ex-wife alleged that he made anti-Semitic remarks and did not want his daughters “going to school with Jews,” according to multiple media outlets that reviewed the documents. (A spokesperson for Bannon has denied he made the comments.)*
> 
> Some former employees describe Bannon as a combative and vindictive figure. “He is legitimately one of the worst people I’ve ever dealt with,” former Breitbart writer Ben Shapiro told TIME after Trump hired Bannon. “He regularly abuses people. He sees everything as a war. Every time he feels crossed, he makes it his business to destroy his opponent.”
> 
> Kurt Bardella, a former Breitbart spokesman, told TIME that Bannon would often launch into “provocative, expletive-laced tirades about any demographic group you can possibly think of. That’s just how Steve is.”
> 
> Trump has mostly staffed his presidential transition team with veteran lobbyists and policymakers, the same Washington figures he campaigned against. That cheered many Republicans, who hope that after a combative campaign, the non-ideological President-elect might govern as a moderate. But Bannon’s perch at the top echelons of the White House is a clear sign that Trump plans to maintain links to the forces that propelled him into power.
> 
> “The racist, fascist extreme right is represented footsteps from the Oval Office,” tweeted GOP strategist John Weaver. *“Be very vigilant America.”*


So Trump's bringing Nazis to the White house?  Good. I hope they give the moronic left a good drubbing. *My my have the tables turned.*



ultron said:


> Personally, I'm sick and tired of identical politics. Male this. Female that. This race. That race. This religion. That religion. This sexual orientation. That sexual orientation. It's all bullshit. It's absolutely crazy.


You can thank Obummer and his coalition of sh!tlibs for racializing American politics.

Instead of voting for people based on merit, the left has started a trend of voting people into public offices simply for the color of their skin or their gender or whatever other social category that makes them a "minority"; the "first Black President", the "first Latino" President, the "first woman" President, the "first Transgender" President, the "first homosexual" President, the "first pedophile" President, the "first Latino woman" President, in other words as long as its not a heterosexual White male (which all of America's founding fathers were mind you), then lets just vote the most obscure, deranged, incompetent people into office simply because they are from a "minority" group.

This whole "left wing" vs "right wing" politics were mostly confined to Europe where they have a history of extreme left wing regimes and right wing governments. America for the most part has always been economically and politically Liberal (the original Liberalism of America's founding fathers, not the modern "Liberalism" of the deranged left). 

But now thanks to Leftist morons American politics have become racialized. And as always the left will never acknowledge its own wrongs, and this will only continue to push more Americans towards the Right wing.

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## Solomon2

*Quit Whining, Liberals. You Brought Trump on Yourselves*




BY TYLER O'NEIL NOVEMBER 11, 2016




(AP Photo/Jae C. Hong)
It barely took 24 hours for liberals to start protesting Donald Trump's victory on Tuesday. In fact, students walked out of school Wednesday morning and riots began in earnest that evening. But if liberals wanted to protest someone for Trump's success, they should be protesting themselves. In many ways, the Left brought Trump on the country, and it was completely avoidable if they had been just a little more reasonable.

Much has been written about the conservative media bubble, and not without reason. But a similar — and more pernicious — phenomenon is happening on the Left, and it is happening in the very seats of intellectual power. Liberals in the universities, the media, and the Democrat Party are largely responsible for Trump, and their echo chamber is so insulated they can barely see it.

Here are four ways American liberals brought Trump on themselves. If they want to protest someone, they should look in the mirror.


*1. Enforcing political correctness.*

Readers of PJ Media are likely familiar with the explosion of political correctness on college campuses. While the trend traces much further back, the recent fracas reached a fever pitch in the fall of last year: students complained that Halloween costumes constituted "cultural appropriation" and "microaggressions." The very idea of a microaggression — where speech or actions not intended to be insulting can be interpreted that way anyway — is arguably anti-free speech. But students took the idea and ran with it, demanding censorship.

From then on, things just started getting worse. A state university had a "stop white people" event for RA training. Racially segregated housing is making a comeback — only now it's black dorms ruled off limits to white people. Last month, University of California-Berkeley students formed a blockade to keep white people from using a bridge. Oh, and if you even disagree with "safe spaces," you're a white supremacist.

Students are being taught the ills of Western culture and history, but not its many positive contributions. Most college students now even think Americans invented slavery, an institution as old as history and universal in all developed cultures until Christians abolished it, _twice_, and starting in the West.

Given these recent events, is it any wonder that a group of young white males — constantly preached to about their "privilege" and the evils of their ancestors — are asserting themselves? The alt-right is racist and evil, but it is a backlash against the racial slant of today's political correctness.

Donald Trump's greatest strength — and his greatest sin in the eyes of liberals — was his much-vaunted ability to "tell it like it is." He was not afraid to say the politically incorrect thing, launching his campaign by calling many Mexican illegal immigrants rapists. Following the death of Kate Steinle two weeks beforehand, his immigration declarations struck a nerve.

If the Republican electorate wanted an anti-establishment candidate, they had a few to choose from. They did not have to vote for a man who had donated to Hillary Clinton's campaign in 2008 and who recently supported universal healthcare. They could have supported Ted Cruz, who was a true conservative, anti-establishment, and didn't have Trump's baggage. Of course, he didn't have Trump's name recognition either...

But the liberals were most scared of Donald Trump. Not only did he say unacceptable things, he was already a household name. Ted Cruz scared them, but Trump disgusted them, and Republicans _loved that_.

There was another reason political correctness helped Trump win. After _Obergefell v. Hodges_ legalized gay marriage, conservatives became terrified that the Supreme Court would further enshrine liberal ideas into American law. The sudden emphasis on "transgender rights" further reminded conservatives that they had to fight back. Even those who would not have supported Trump normally voted for him to ensure a conservative Supreme Court, and political correctness convinced them it was now or never.


*2. Crying wolf about Republican candidates.*

Mitt Romney was "out of touch," a heartless millionaire, and responsible for his employee's death from cancer. Long before Trump attacked John McCain for being captured, liberals denigrated his military service in 2008. George W. Bush was a "fascist."

This month, Bill Maher admitted it was "wrong" to cry wolf about previous Republican candidates. After Democrats and liberals had called Bush a "fascist" when he clearly wasn't anything of the sort, it meant next to nothing when they said the same thing about Donald Trump, even though the label arguably fits him better.

Even President Obama was at a loss for words when attacking Trump. The president was forced to admit that he considered Trump in a different league than the other two Republicans he himself defeated. He argued that he "never thought" Romney and McCain couldn't do the job, but he considered Trump unfit.

After crying wolf so many times in the past, however, liberals had no credibility when they used hyperbole to attack Trump. Indeed, these attacks seemed more likely to convince Republicans that Trump actually was one of them, a conservative who scared liberals because he would stand up for their values.

In the primary, conservative arguments against him fell on deaf ears, because liberals were so scared. Only a true conservative warrior could achieve that, and so many who might have been skeptical otherwise jumped on the Trump train.

As a conservative who firmly got on the Romney bandwagon in 2012, I found myself unable to trust Trump. Yes, he is better than Hillary Clinton would have been, but will a man whose political principles seem to change with the wind prove to be a conservative warrior in the White House? I can only hope so. But liberals can take the credit for convincing my fellow Republicans he was the savior they were looking for.


*3. Planting operatives to cause chaos.*

Last month, Project Veritas released a bombshell video about the violence at Trump rallies. The Clinton campaign and Democratic Party operatives planned to incite that violence, and it backfired.

The Democrats intended that violence to dissuade Trump supporters and convince most Americans that there was something very wrong with him. Instead, it merely convinced millions of Americans that Trump stands for something, in spite of strong opposition. Just as liberal attacks that Trump is a "fascist" convinced Republicans that he was their champion, so the violence at his rallies convinced Americans he was a real political force.

Once again, the Democrat attack backfired, and liberals themselves are responsible for Trump's political success.


*4. Allowing the media to prostrate themselves.*

In the Republican primary, Donald Trump received over $1.9 billion in media coverage. In any primary, a key feature is name recognition — voters won't choose a candidate they've never heard of. Trump consistently led in this category, and the media coverage only helped his lead over other Republicans.

FiveThirtyEight's Nate Silver analyzed three kinds of news stories: reports of Trump's high poll numbers, tales of Trump beating the Republican "establishment," and astonished reports of Trump saying unbelievable things.

Reports of Trump's inflammatory comments were presented as likely damning his candidacy, yet each poll showed Trump ahead of other candidates. These astonished poll reports left Republicans with the impression that he had beaten the "establishment," and that "telling it like it is" made him an electable candidate. Many of these polling reports emphasized that people viewed Trump as "electable," but did not focus on his negative favorable ratings.

The media coverage — not necessarily intended to prop up Trump, and even occasionally intended to destroy his candidacy — actually had the result of creating a hero in the minds of Republicans who distrusted the media and the "establishment." $1.9 billion can make a sensation out of anyone, and Trump was already a household name.

Just like liberals crying wolf, the breathless media coverage of Trump convinced many Republicans that he was a heroic underdog, consistently winning despite everything thrown against him.

Why did the media cover Trump so much? One word: ratings. The media chases its audience, and Trump attracted attention. Higher ratings and Internet traffic enables outlets to charge more for advertising, and so it was in their interest to cover stories which attract attention.

TV news even went so far as to stream Trump's speeches and rallies live — an unprecedented move which gave both Trump and news outlets more attention. It was a win-win, and while many feared they were "selling their souls" for ratings, they were also delivering people the stories which interested them most.

There are many, many reasons Trump defeated Clinton on Tuesday, and books will undoubtedly cover them in detail. But liberals and Democrats have themselves to blame for many of them.

Further protesting and rioting is likely to only make Trump stronger, and if he proves to be even a partially decent president, liberals will have to eat so much crow, Trump will likely become a true misunderstood American hero. But it's not like liberals were silenced — they made him, and now they have to live with him.


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## ptldM3

RabzonKhan said:


>




The butt hurt is still strong. Why is no one surprised that Hillary supporters get their news from these retarded liberal comedians? Quick... post something from Buzzfeed, MTV or Chelsea Handler 


I'm still balling at the fact that all the cocky Hillary supporters and the media thought they were not only going to beat Trump but "crush him". That would explain why they started crying like little children and after that ironically the racial attacks both verbal and physical started.

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## GiannKall

Personally i love the idea of Trump in power. He will accelerate the downfall of USA that started under Bush presidency.

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## T-72

Mugwop said:


> Dude I want the protests to end just as much as you do and the only way to end them is if trump offers an apology for his remarks.What other way is there?


it never ends with these people, once they get an apology they'll want him to go back on his policies.

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## Mugwop

Desert Fox said:


> No apologies here for intolerant leftist brats.
> 
> *It's simple: if they can't tolerate free-speech then they should move to North Korea.*
> 
> 
> So Trump's bringing Nazis to the White house?  Good. I hope they give the moronic left a good drubbing. *My my have the tables turned.*
> 
> 
> You can thank Obummer and his coalition of sh!tlibs for racializing American politics.
> 
> Instead of voting for people based on merit, the left has started a trend of voting people into public offices simply for the color of their skin or their gender or whatever other social category that makes them a "minority"; the "first Black President", the "first Latino" President, the "first woman" President, the "first Transgender" President, the "first homosexual" President, the "first pedophile" President, the "first Latino woman" President, in other words as long as its not a heterosexual White male (which all of America's founding fathers were mind you), then lets just vote the most obscure, deranged, incompetent people into office simply because they are from a "minority" group.
> 
> This whole "left wing" vs "right wing" politics were mostly confined to Europe where they have a history of extreme left wing regimes and right wing governments. America for the most part has always been economically and politically Liberal (the original Liberalism of America's founding fathers, not the modern "Liberalism" of the deranged left).
> 
> But now thanks to Leftist morons American politics have become racialized. And as always the left will never acknowledge its own wrongs, and this will only continue to push more Americans towards the Right wing.


No offence but both leftists and trump supporters are intolerant in their own ways.



T-72 said:


> it never ends with these people, once they get an apology they'll want him to go back on his policies.


What policies to be exact?

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## T-72

Mugwop said:


> What policies to be exact?


this one ?








the point is, they shouldn't be rioting, and Trump does not owe these troublemakers an apology.




=======================================

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## Desert Fox

Mugwop said:


> No offence but both leftists and trump supporters are intolerant in their own ways.


Trump supporters don't even do 10% of the things Liberals/Leftists have done and still are doing.


*Black Man Tells Black Trump Supporter "Niggas like you need to be KILLED"*

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## cloud4000

These #NotMyPresident protesters have to be the dumbest people alive. Who are you protesting and against whom and for what reason? You are wasting everybody's time. And you are protesting in areas -- mostly urban -- that more likely than not, voted for Clinton. 

Just accept the reality and move on. Go back to you job, if you have one. Clinton failed because she was a bad candidate with bad ideas. No one is listening to your moans about racism, sexism, xenophobia, etc., anymore.

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## Desert Fox

T-72 said:


> it never ends with these people, once they get an apology they'll want him to go back on his policies.


Never compromise with the left. If they push you, then push back ten times harder. We all know where apology and mercy landed Czar Nicholas II.

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## Mugwop

Desert Fox said:


> Trump supporters don't even do 10% of the things Liberals/Leftists have done and still are doing.
> 
> 
> *Black Man Tells Black Trump Supporter "Niggas like you need to be KILLED"*



A San Jose student said a man pulled her hijab.

A Muslim student wearing a hijab was targeted in a parking lot at San Diego State University, and her car keys were stolen.

An Assyrian-American woman “was called a terrorist by another passenger on the train,” in the Bay Area, according to NBC Bay Area. The woman who was targeted posted a cell phone video of the encounter on Facebook.

A Muslim teacher in Georgia “was told to hang herself with her headscarf in a frightening note which said it was no longer ‘allowed’ after Donald Trump’s election win,” said The UK Daily Mail.

There was also racist and anti-Semitic pro Trump graffiti found on a Massachusetts cliff side. The graffiti, which talked about gassing jews and killing blacks, appeared in early November, said MassLive.

Police in Ann Arbor said they were investigating allegations that a “man approached a Muslim student and threatened to set her on fire with a lighter unless she removed her hijab.” The University of Michigan Division of Public Safety & Security described the suspect as “White male, 20-30 years old, average height, athletic build, bad body odor, unkempt appearance, intoxicated with slurred speech.”


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796496565447880704
Middle school students in Michigan chanted “Build the wall” in a cafeteria incident captured on video.

https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20161110/downtown-brooklyn/trump-graffiti-muslim-prayer-room-nyu


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796736830586531840
In Syracuse, pickups – including one with a Confederate flag – drove through an anti-Trump rally, USA Today said.

https://www.facebook.com/nizamfariha/posts/1694693124181493

A Muslim woman in Columbus Ohio reported being called the “C” word and told to get out of the country, said ABC.











Church arson attack

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...-tells-supporters-committing-violence-stop-it 

Btw the dude who said "niggas like you should be killed" picked a fight he couldn't win and It wasn't entertaining at all

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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> *How Donald Trump Is Bringing the Alt-Right to the White House
> 
> The former media mogul is Trump's link to the right-wing fringe
> *
> Personnel is policy, runs the old Washington saying. Which is why Republicans and Democrats alike are studying Donald Trump’s staff hires for clues of how the President-elect will govern. And so far one name sticks out: Steve Bannon, who was named Sunday as Trump’s chief strategist and senior counselor.
> 
> In one respect, Bannon’s appointment is not a surprise: he was already a member of Trump’s innermost circle, serving since late summer as chief executive of the businessman’s campaign. But in many others, Bannon is an unorthodox, even startling hire.
> 
> Trump’s new top White House adviser is best known as a purveyor of right-wing agitprop. As boss of Breitbart News, Bannon helped nurture the populist uprising that swept Trump to victory in the Republican primaries. He has battled for years to transform the GOP into a more hard-edged party and given voice to some of the unsavory forces floating around its fringe, including a resurgence of white nationalism.
> 
> Bannon took an unusual route to the West Wing. Born in Virginia to a family of working-class Democrats, he served a stint in the Navy, earned an MBA at Harvard and became a banker at Goldman Sachs. From there he launched a boutique investment bank that specialized in media—he walked away from one lucrative deal with royalties from _Seinfeld_—and began to moonlight as a Hollywood producer. About a decade ago, he began making conservative films, including hagiographic documentaries about the Tea Party and Sarah Palin. His entreé into Breitbart came when he loaned office space in Los Angeles to the site’s namesake.
> 
> *Bannon built Breitbart into a right-wing juggernaut. He did it by serving up an acid brand of ethno-nationalism that attacks Republicans nearly as much as it does Democrats. Breitbart opposes illegal immigration, global trade deals, cultural progressives *and Washington cronyism. The site often targets GOP leaders it sees as insufficiently conservative, helping to oust former House Majority Leader Eric Cantor and hounding former Speaker John Boehner to quit. This year it has pumped out a steady stream of articles attacking Paul Ryan, Boehner’s successor.
> 
> *It would be one thing if Breitbart were merely arch-conservative. What worries many Republicans is the way it has given a voice to fringe groups. “We’re the platform for the alt-right,” Bannon boasted to Mother Jonesmagazine in July, referring to the rising right-wing movement that includes anti-Semites and proponents of white nationalism.*
> 
> *Critics say Breitbart’s coverage is shot through with racism, xenophobia and misogyny. *Under Bannon’s editorial direction, it has accused Planned Parenthood of perpetuating a “Holocaust” by performing abortions. The site targets women (sample headlines: “There’s No Hiring Bias Against Women in Tech, They Just Suck at Interviews”; “Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy”; “The Solution to Online ‘Harassment’ is Simple: Women Should Log Off.”). It mocks the LGBT community (“Lesbian Bridezillas Bully Bridal Shop Over Religious Beliefs”). It foments fears about Muslim refugees (“Twin Falls Refugee Rape Special Report: Why are the Refugees Moving In?”).
> 
> *Breitbart has played up the prospects of a looming “race war” between whites and blacks. It often vilifies Black Lives Matter protesters. It promotes far-right parties across Europe. It published a piece whose headline called conservative pundit and Trump foe Bill Kristol a “renegade Jew.” Bannon himself has been accused of anti-Semitism. In a 2007 court filing, Bannon’s ex-wife alleged that he made anti-Semitic remarks and did not want his daughters “going to school with Jews,” according to multiple media outlets that reviewed the documents. (A spokesperson for Bannon has denied he made the comments.)*
> 
> Some former employees describe Bannon as a combative and vindictive figure. “He is legitimately one of the worst people I’ve ever dealt with,” former Breitbart writer Ben Shapiro told TIME after Trump hired Bannon. “He regularly abuses people. He sees everything as a war. Every time he feels crossed, he makes it his business to destroy his opponent.”
> 
> Kurt Bardella, a former Breitbart spokesman, told TIME that Bannon would often launch into “provocative, expletive-laced tirades about any demographic group you can possibly think of. That’s just how Steve is.”
> 
> Trump has mostly staffed his presidential transition team with veteran lobbyists and policymakers, the same Washington figures he campaigned against. That cheered many Republicans, who hope that after a combative campaign, the non-ideological President-elect might govern as a moderate. But Bannon’s perch at the top echelons of the White House is a clear sign that Trump plans to maintain links to the forces that propelled him into power.
> 
> “The racist, fascist extreme right is represented footsteps from the Oval Office,” tweeted GOP strategist John Weaver. *“Be very vigilant America.”*


Press Release
*ADL Statement on President-Elect Trump's Appointment of Reince Priebus and Steve Bannon
*
New York, NY, November 13, 2016 … The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today commended President-Elect Trump for appointing Reince Preibus as White House Chief of Staff.

Priebus has had a long career in politics and public life, and ADL wishes him well in his new role.

At the same time, ADL strongly opposes the appointment of Steve Bannon as senior advisor and chief strategist in the White House.

"It is a sad day when a man who presided over the premier website of the Alt Right, a loose-knit group of white nationalists and unabashed anti-Semites and racists - is slated to be a senior staff member in the 'people's house,' said Jonathan A. Greenblatt, ADL CEO. "We call on President-elect Trump to appoint and nominate Americans committed to the well-being of all our country's people and who exemplify the values of pluralism and tolerance that makes our country great."

The Anti-Defamation League, founded in 1913, is the world's leading organization fighting anti-Semitism through programs and services that counteract hatred, prejudice and bigotry. *Link*




*
White Nationalists Rejoice at Trump's Appointment of Breitbart's Stephen Bannon

The Southern Poverty Law Center
*
Yesterday, President-elect Donald Trump made his official appointments, selecting Republican National Committee Chair Reince Priebus as his chief of staff and Stephen Bannon, head of Breitbart Media who temporarily took a leave of absence to become Trump’s campaign manager, as his “chief strategist and senior counselor.”

The move to appoint Bannon to such an important role goes directly against Trump’s pledge to be a president to “all Americans.” Bannon has a long history of bigotry. He has insinuated that African-Americans are “naturally aggressive and violent” and under his leadership, Breitbart’s publishing strategy turned to one that has made it the media arm of the racist Alternative-Right movement, publishing articles promoting popular white nationalist tropes such as “black on white crime” and that "rape culture" is inherent in Islam. 

Some of the key players in the Alt-Right movement, along with other well-established platforms for white nationalists have rejoiced in Trump’s appointment of Bannon to a key role. 

Richard Spencer, *a white nationalist who runs the “think tank” National Policy Institute (NPI, and one of the most prominent Alt-Right figures, took to Twitter last night to praise Bannon. “Strategist is the best possible position for Steve Bannon in the Trump White House,"* Spencer wrote. “Bannon will answer directly to Trump and focus on the big picture, not get lost in the weeds.”

Andrew Anglin, *whose neo-Nazi website Daily Stormer claims to be the “#1 Alt-Right” website, wrote, “I probably would have preferred Bannon as chief-of-staff and Priebus as press secretary,”* before cross-posting NPR's story. Comments to Anglin’s post read, “Bannon is _our_ _man _in the White House” and celebrated reports about Bannon’s alleged anti-Semitism.

Tony Hovater, a key member of the white nationalist Traditionalist Workers Party(TWP), who recently ran as a candidate for a New Carlisle, Ohio, City Council seat (and lost) responded gleefully on Facebook to Bannon’s appointment. “What timeline are we even on anymore? We’re like one or two degrees of separation away from the fucking President.” TWP is headed by another well-known white nationalist, Matthew Heimbach, who faces a charge of harassment with physical contact after he was filmed shoving a black woman at a Trump rally earlier this year.

*Ken Reed,* *the national director of the neo-Nazi group Aryan Renaissance Society, posted a news story about the Bannon appointment to a Facebook group with the comment, “Can you say WINNING boys and girls???”* and followed with the hashtags #WhiteLivesMatter and #AltRight.

Stormfont, the oldest neo-Nazi message board on the web, has many users cheering Trump’s decision to appoint Bannon. User Phoenix1933 wrote:

“Stephen Bannon: racist, anti-homo, anti-immigrant, anti-jewish, anti-establishment. Declared war on (((Paul Ryan))) Sounds perfect. Muhahahaha. The man who will have Trump’s ear more than anyone else. Being anti-jewish is not illegal. Nothing you dirty stinking jews can do to keep him out.” *Read more*





Desert Fox said:


> So Trump's bringing Nazis to the White house?  Good. I hope they give the moronic left a good drubbing. *My my have the tables turned.*


You can laugh, but those who know the horror of racism are not laughing.



cloud4000 said:


> Clinton failed because she was a bad candidate with bad ideas.


That “bad candidate” so far has won 797,724 more popular votes than Trump and all the ballots haven’t been counted yet.

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## Desert Fox

Mugwop said:


> A San Jose student said a man pulled her hijab.
> 
> A Muslim student wearing a hijab was targeted in a parking lot at San Diego State University, and her car keys were stolen.
> 
> An Assyrian-American woman “was called a terrorist by another passenger on the train,” in the Bay Area, according to NBC Bay Area. The woman who was targeted posted a cell phone video of the encounter on Facebook.
> 
> A Muslim teacher in Georgia “was told to hang herself with her headscarf in a frightening note which said it was no longer ‘allowed’ after Donald Trump’s election win,” said The UK Daily Mail.
> 
> There was also racist and anti-Semitic pro Trump graffiti found on a Massachusetts cliff side. The graffiti, which talked about gassing jews and killing blacks, appeared in early November, said MassLive.
> 
> Police in Ann Arbor said they were investigating allegations that a “man approached a Muslim student and threatened to set her on fire with a lighter unless she removed her hijab.” The University of Michigan Division of Public Safety & Security described the suspect as “White male, 20-30 years old, average height, athletic build, bad body odor, unkempt appearance, intoxicated with slurred speech.”
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796496565447880704
> Middle school students in Michigan chanted “Build the wall” in a cafeteria incident captured on video.
> 
> https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20161110/downtown-brooklyn/trump-graffiti-muslim-prayer-room-nyu
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796736830586531840
> In Syracuse, pickups – including one with a Confederate flag – drove through an anti-Trump rally, USA Today said.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/nizamfariha/posts/1694693124181493
> 
> A Muslim woman in Columbus Ohio reported being called the “C” word and told to get out of the country, said ABC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Church arson attack
> 
> http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...-tells-supporters-committing-violence-stop-it
> 
> Btw the dude who said "niggas like you should be killed" picked a fight he couldn't win and It wasn't entertaining at all



Many of these were proven to be fabrications.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...y-were-attacked-by-men-invoking-donald-trump/

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...e-hate-crimes-sweeps-anti-trump-imaginations/

http://www.gopusa.com/police-muslim-student-fabricated-assault-by-trump-supporters/


In this day and age where everyone has camera phones and can record the most controversial events, you would think they'd be able to catch at least one of these hate attacks on camera  . But not a single one from the numerous fabricated hate incidents was on camera footage.

PS how convenient, all of the attackers were straight White males wearing Trump hats. 

On the other hand there is plenty of video footage of leftist/libsh!ts attacking Trump supporters and stealing their cars:


----------



## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> That “bad candidate” so far has won 797,724 more popular votes than Trump and all the ballots haven’t been counted yet.



You know popular votes don't matter, it's all about electoral votes. Running against someone like Trump, she should've won by a mile yet she failed. Why? 

Fact will emerge in the coming weeks and months why this happened. You can't Trump for winning, but you can sure blame Clinton for losing. The answers lie with Clinton and her campaign.

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> You can laugh, but those who know the horror of racism are not laughing.



The only racists here are the leftists/Liberals who create racism where there is none and who think they can trash everyone else and impose their distorted worldview on the rest of humanity.

PS if it's that bad you can move to Mexico (don't go to Canada, Europe, Australia or New Zealand, there's more White people in those countries  ).

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## ultron

Only unitary countries like Syria and Ukraine use national popular vote. Federal countries like the US, Canada, Russia use popular vote on each federal subject, not on the nation as a whole. In federal countries each federal subject has its own sovereignty.


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## Nilgiri




----------



## ptldM3

Mugwop said:


> A San Jose student said a man pulled her hijab.
> 
> A Muslim student wearing a hijab was targeted in a parking lot at San Diego State University, and her car keys were stolen.
> 
> An Assyrian-American woman “was called a terrorist by another passenger on the train,” in the Bay Area, according to NBC Bay Area. The woman who was targeted posted a cell phone video of the encounter on Facebook.
> 
> A Muslim teacher in Georgia “was told to hang herself with her headscarf in a frightening note which said it was no longer ‘allowed’ after Donald Trump’s election win,” said The UK Daily Mail.
> 
> There was also racist and anti-Semitic pro Trump graffiti found on a Massachusetts cliff side. The graffiti, which talked about gassing jews and killing blacks, appeared in early November, said MassLive.
> 
> Police in Ann Arbor said they were investigating allegations that a “man approached a Muslim student and threatened to set her on fire with a lighter unless she removed her hijab.” The University of Michigan Division of Public Safety & Security described the suspect as “White male, 20-30 years old, average height, athletic build, bad body odor, unkempt appearance, intoxicated with slurred speech.”
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796496565447880704
> Middle school students in Michigan chanted “Build the wall” in a cafeteria incident captured on video.
> 
> https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20161110/downtown-brooklyn/trump-graffiti-muslim-prayer-room-nyu
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796736830586531840
> In Syracuse, pickups – including one with a Confederate flag – drove through an anti-Trump rally, USA Today said.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/nizamfariha/posts/1694693124181493
> 
> A Muslim woman in Columbus Ohio reported being called the “C” word and told to get out of the country, said ABC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Church arson attack
> 
> http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...-tells-supporters-committing-violence-stop-it
> 
> Btw the dude who said "niggas like you should be killed" picked a fight he couldn't win and It wasn't entertaining at all






More pathetic leftist logic. So you posted some random acts of racism and are trying to convince every it must be Trump supporters despite zero evidence.


I'm pretty sure the racist graffiti is probably from the leftists as well. They have been caught countless times trying sway public opinion. The media and even the democratic national committee did it on a grand scale, according to hacked emails. There has been cases of gays and other minorities that have been caught spraying hatful graffiti on their own property for sympathy, even blacks have been caught burning crosses on their own property claiming it was the evil white man.


Your proof, is really nothing. I can go spray some graffiti saying I'm a Clinton supporter and all whites should die. At the end of the day the actions of the leftists speak for themselves and the proof is real unlike some random graffiti.

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## JanjaWeed

Now you know the reason behind that 24hr delay in concession speech! 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/798264132055302144

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## Nilgiri

JanjaWeed said:


> Now you know the reason behind that 24hr delay in concession speech!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/798264132055302144



HAHAHAHAHAHA.

@Desert Fox called it so long ago.

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## ptldM3

JanjaWeed said:


> Now you know the reason behind that 24hr delay in concession speech!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/798264132055302144





The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Both Clinton and her supporters are psychotic lunatics that start attacking people and destroying things when things don't go their way.

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## boomslang

Three quarters of all this shit blamed on Trump supporters is just that. These are all Killary and Bernie goons doing. We've seen them used before.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Hahahahaah. Trump won. 

Sorry for the delayed celebrations, just came back from a ban.

Such a sucker punch to the blatantly and shamelessly biased American media. Totally deserved it. They played major role in trump's victory

And these protestors, OMG this media and these protestors will only ensure Trump's re-election in 2020 if they keep going like this. No shame at all. The other side tolerated and even supported your candidate for 8 years and you cant tolerate their candidate even for a day. Says a lot about their level of tolerance.

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## AndyWitt

Revoke Barack Obama's Nobel Peace Prize - Petition

We call on the Norwegian Nobel Committee to revoke Barack Obama's Nobel Peace Prize won by him on the grounds of absurd lies in 2009. Please join, sign the petition and share it if you also think that after eight years of continuous warfare Obama should return the prize and a full amount of prize money. The Nobel Peace Prize in hands of a true warmonger is a shameful betrayal of those who strive for real peace and justice, stand against wars and violence, stand against discrimination and human rights abuse.

Sing me: Revoke Barack Obama's Nobel Peace Prize - change org

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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


>


Damn, why did @Nilgiri get banned @WAJsal ?


----------



## Solomon2

​



*Here’s A Photo Of Hillary Signing Copies Of Newsweek’s ‘Madam President’ Issue*

RACHEL STOLTZFOOS
Reporter
9:13 AM 11/14/2016





U.S. Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton attends a campaign rally accompanied by vice presidential nominee Senator Tim Kaine (not pictured) in Pittsburgh, U.S., October 22, 2016. REUTERS/Carlos Barria/File Photo

Former secretary of State Hillary Clinton personally autographed copies of Newsweek’s “Madam President” issue following a campaign rally the day before the election.

The failed presidential candidate was photographed by Justin Sullivan for Reuters signing one of the copies backstage after a rally in Pittsburgh, Penn., that Monday. The issue was for “Cate.”





Democratic presidential nominee former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton signs an autograph on a Newsweek ‘Madam President’ commemerative magazine backstage after a campaign rally on November 7, 2016 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. (Justin Sullivan/Getty Images)

Betting Clinton would win, Newsweek chose to print the commemorative edition ahead of the election and sent out 125,000 copies of the issue to celebrate her win. “Hillary Clinton’s historic journey to the White House,” the cover read.

But after her stunning defeat, the magazine was forced to issue an embarrassing and expensive recall and publish the “President Trump” version of the issue.

“Like everybody else, we got it wrong,” Tony Romando, the chief executive of Newsweek’s production partner, said in a statement. “All wholesalers and retailers have been asked to return any issues they have as we need to clear room for the President Trump issue. We expect it to sell very well as there is obviously a great demand.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/14/h...ewsweeks-madam-president-issue/#ixzz4QC9oK6CX

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## iPhone

News were reporting that the orange gurella was so stunned to find out the overwhelming responsibilities of being President that he almost had an assAttack. He must've thought the trip would like hosting celebrity apprentice.

We'll kick this baboon out next election and
#make America smart again.


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## flamer84

iPhone said:


> News were reporting that the orange gurella was stunned to find out the overwhelming responsibilities of being President. He must've thought the trip would like hosting celebrity apprentice.
> 
> We'll kick this baboon out next election and
> #make America smart again.



For over a year and a half you're living under the illusion that you can stop the God Emperor 

"HAHAHA, He's running for the Republicans,what a clown! He'll never get the nomination hhaha"-Trumped !

"hahaha he's got the nomination,Hillary will destroy him,hahaha,"-Trumped!

Soon..."hahaha,he'll never get reelected".....Trumped ! 



iPhone said:


> News were reporting



Oh yes,the news...........



It worked out just fine lately

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## iPhone

flamer84 said:


> For over a year and a half you're living under the illusion that you can stop the God Emperor
> 
> "HAHAHA, He's running for the Republicans,what a clown! He'll never get the nomination hhaha"-Trumped !
> 
> "hahaha he's got the nomination,Hillary will destroy him,hahaha,"-Trumped!
> 
> Soon..."hahaha,he'll never get reelected".....Trumped !
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes,the news...........
> 
> 
> 
> It worked out just fine lately


Oh, you're laughing. You came broken up, seemed like you're Internet was cutting out around your trailer park.


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## flamer84

iPhone said:


> Oh, you're laughing. You came broken up, seemed like you're Internet wasn't cutting out around your trailer park.




lol...Triggered !

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## iPhone

flamer84 said:


> lol...Triggered !


Lol, yup seen that one, quiet funny


----------



## kamrananvaar

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democrats, civil rights groups and even some Republicans slammed U.S. President-elect Donald Trump on Monday for choosing right-wing firebrand Stephen Bannon as a key aide, saying it would elevate the white nationalist movement into the top levels of the White House.

Making his first appointments since last week's upset win over Democrat Hillary Clinton, Trump picked Bannon as his chief strategist and counselor, and Washington insider Reince Priebus as his chief of staff on Sunday, saying the two would share the task of steering his administration as "equal partners."

The choice of Priebus was seen as a conciliatory signal of Trump's willingness to work with Congress after he takes office on Jan. 20. But critics blasted the selection of Bannon, who spearheaded a shift of the Breitbart News website into a forum for the "alt-right," a loose online group of neo-Nazis, white supremacists and anti-Semites.

"There should be no sugarcoating the truth here: Donald Trump just invited a white nationalist into the highest reaches of the government," said Democratic Senator Jeff Merkley, who called on Trump to rescind the choice.

Democrats and advocacy groups on the left called Bannon a promoter of racism and misogyny who is backed by the white supremacist group the Ku Klux Klan.

"It is a sad day when a man who presided over the premier website of the ‘alt-right’- a loose-knit group of white nationalists and unabashed anti-Semites and racists - is slated to be a senior staff member in the ‘people’s house'," said Jonathan Greenblatt, head of the Anti-Defamation League.

The Democrats' leader in the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, said Bannon's appointment sent "an alarming signal that President-elect Trump remains committed to the hateful and divisive vision that defined his campaign."

Even some conservatives and Republicans voiced dismay. Evan McMullin, who ran as a conservative independent presidential candidate, wondered on Twitter if any national Republican leaders would condemn the pick of "anti-Semite" Bannon.

John Weaver, a top strategist for Republican Ohio Governor John Kasich, tweeted that the "racist, fascist extreme right is represented footsteps from the Oval Office. Be very vigilant America." Kasich was one of 16 Republican presidential hopefuls Trump defeated in the party primaries ahead of last Tuesday's election.

Priebus defended Bannon on Monday, calling him a wise and well-educated former naval officer and saying he had not encountered the sort of extremist or racist views that critics are assailing.

"He was a force for good on the campaign," Priebus said on Fox News, adding they were in agreement on "almost everything" in terms of advising the president-elect.

Kellyanne Conway, Trump's former campaign manager and a senior adviser, told reporters in New York she was offended by the reaction to Bannon. She described him as a "brilliant tactician" who was the general in charge of Trump's campaign.

Hardline Trump backers counting on the wealthy real estate developer to keep his campaign promise to "drain the swamp" of business-as-usual Washington insiders may be disappointed he has named Priebus as chief of staff, a position that serves as gatekeeper and agenda-setter for the president.

TRUMP MANAGEMENT STYLE

Throughout his career Trump has often pitted competing staff factions against each other to get a wide range of views.

"He likes taking opinions from a lot of different people. He's not a person who just listens to one person and does whatever that one person says. He decides," Priebus said on NBC's "Today Show."

The early stages of Trump's unorthodox presidential campaign were marked by frequent clashes between Paul Manafort, an experienced political insider, and brash manager Corey Lewandowski. Both eventually resigned.

Since the election, Trump has softened one of his major campaign promises of building a wall along the U.S. border with Mexico to keep out illegal immigrants. In an interview with the CBS program "60 Minutes" on Sunday, Trump said he would accept some fencing instead of a brick-and-mortar wall.

Trump also sought to play down the divisive nature of his candidacy and said Americans alarmed by his election had nothing to fear.


"Don't be afraid. We are going to bring our country back. But certainly, don't be afraid," he said.

Bannon, a former Goldman Sachs banker, over the past year led Breitbart News in a charge against the Republican Party establishment, including Priebus' friend Paul Ryan, the speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives.

The Breitbart attacks on Ryan continued on Sunday, with an article denouncing Ryan's comment on CNN that "we are not planning on erecting a deportation force."

"Speaker Ryan is now telling voters that he will not enact a central part of Trump's mandate," a Breitbart article said.

In the "60 Minutes" interview, Trump said he would move to deport up to 3 million immigrants who are in the country illegally and have criminal records.

Demonstrators in major U.S. cities took to the streets for a fifth straight day on Sunday to protest against Trump.

Police in New York on Monday were investigating two cases involving swastikas drawn or painted in public spaces, as civil rights activists said there had been a surge in hate crimes following last week's election.

The president-elect, a businessman who has never held public office, and his transition team are working on picking members of his Cabinet and the heads of federal agencies.

Among those reported to be under consideration for top posts are former U.S. House Speaker Newt Gingrich, as a possible secretary of state or secretary of health and human services; Stephen Hadley, former national security adviser under President George W. Bush, as a possible defense secretary; former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani as attorney general; and former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as interior secretary


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## Path-Finder

the rich and the billionaires stand to gain from right winged appointees,  the vulnerable and hapless who voted are gonna bust a nut when they find out they got shafted.


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## ultron

Steve Bannon is a right wing Zionist closely linked to Benjamin Netanyahu. Fred Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu became good friends in the 1980s when Benjamin Netanyahu was working at the UN headquarters. Steve Bannon, like Donald Trump, is a Zionist fanatic who aims to make Jerusalem the undivided capital of Israel.

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## cloud4000

Wait till his supporters find out he doesn't have a plan to create jobs without wrecking the economy. For every job Trump brings back from China, or elsewhere, he's going to lose two jobs in US. The man never had an incoherent economic policy from the start.


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## ultron

cloud4000 said:


> Wait till his supporters find out he doesn't have a plan to create jobs without wrecking the economy. For every job Trump brings back from China, or elsewhere, he's going to lose two jobs in US. The man never had an incoherent economic policy from the start.




Meh. Just rack up the debt. Obama doubled the debt. Trump is no Hitler of Mussolini who did a great job bringing jobs to Germany and Italy.


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## cloud4000

ultron said:


> Meh. Just rack up the debt. Obama doubled the debt. Trump is no Hitler of Mussolini who did a great job bringing jobs to Germany and Italy.



Trump plan calls for $1 trillion in infrastructure spending, but it's all going to be financed by private debt. How's this going to work? The guy is saying stuff off the top of his head.


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## ultron

cloud4000 said:


> Trump plan calls for $1 trillion in infrastructure spending, but it's all going to be financed by private debt. How's this going to work? The guy is saying stuff off the top of his head.




America used to be awesome in the 1980s. Now America is garbage. Someone has to do it. With or without debt.

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## Mentee

kamrananvaar said:


> Sarah Palin as interior secretary


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## ultron




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## iPhone

nick_indian said:


> Hahahahaah. Trump won.
> 
> Sorry for the delayed celebrations, just came back from a ban.
> 
> Such a sucker punch to the blatantly and shamelessly biased American media. Totally deserved it. They played major role in trump's victory
> 
> And these protestors, OMG this media and these protestors will only ensure Trump's re-election in 2020 if they keep going like this. No shame at all. The other side tolerated and even supported your candidate for 8 years and you cant tolerate their candidate even for a day. Says a lot about their level of tolerance.


Your country media may have decided to support and enable a right-wing nut job but that shitt wont fly here. We're gonna fight and resist this pussy grabbing, right wing fanatic orangutan.


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## ultron

iPhone said:


> this pussy grabbing, right wing fanatic orangutan




pussy grabbing - some people can't take a joke

right wing - no proof

fanatic orangutan - reported

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## iPhone

ultron said:


> this pussy grabbing - some people can't take a joke
> 
> right wing - no proof
> 
> fanatic orangutan - reported


Reported? why you being such a pussy?


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## ptldM3

iPhone said:


> Oh, you're laughing. You came broken up, seemed like you're Internet was cutting out around your trailer park.




Another Hillary supporter using a racial stereotype. Because every Trump supporter must be 'white trash' living in a trailer. It's ironic that your camp calls Trump supporters racists but the racist attacks both physical and verbal is coming from the liberal left.

According to a nationwide survey conducted by the liberal New York Times *Only 58% of whites voted Trump.* There goes the entire liberal lies that it is all white people that voted him in.


If you would actually get out of your 'safe space' which apparently liberal crybabies need and use you would see that Trump supporters voted Trump because they wanted lower taxes as opposed to higher taxes under Hillary's plan, they were sick of the skyrocketing costs of Obama care, they wanted someone that promised to stay out of the Middle East and make piece as opposed to Hillary which has supported wars in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Lybia and threatened war with Russia, China, North Korea, ect. Trump supporters were disgusted by Hillary excepting hundreds of millions in political bribes, they were disgusted that she committed a felony crime and then erased 33 thousand emailed while *under subpoena*, (she should have also been charged with tampering with evidence and obstructing an investigation). Her cronies smashed 20 mobile devices with hammers at the State Department in order to destroy more evidence. She lied to the FBI, congress and the American people about the emails. This was a major factor to why she lost and why people voted Trump. Hillary is just dishonest and corrupt.

On top of that, she cheated, she had the DNC propel her to the nomination over Sanders, which caused disgruntled Democratic Sanders supporters to vote Trump. According to leaked emails there was mass media collusion in favor of Hillary. Powerful Democrats were found to have payed people to start violence at Trump rallies, and Hillary was fed debate questions ahead of time.

So, move along, it has nothing to do with race, most of the things about Trump are outright lies anyways.

In the end the Democrats and Hillary committed mass cheating and they had the media, celebrities, special interest groups and hundreds of millions in money from special interest group all on their side and she still lost

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## ultron

Both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are WASPs. This election was not about race or religion.

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## iPhone

ptldM3 said:


> Another Hillary supporter using a racial stereotype. Because every Trump supporter must be 'white trash' living in a trailer. It's ironic that your camp calls Trump supporters racists but the racist attacks both physical and verbal is coming from the liberal left.
> 
> According to a nationwide survey conducted by the liberal New York Times *Only 58% of whites voted Trump.* There goes the entire liberal lies that it is all white people that voted



Your yellow baboon made wild assumptions and generalization about every minority in America and ran a hateful campaign to stoke fear and hate among public and ended up in the office. 

Now it's our turn to return the favor, pay him and his supporters back in the language they understand. Which is fact-free generalization. Now we are gonna tell it like it is.


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## ultron

iPhone said:


> Your yellow baboon made wild assumptions and generalization about every minority in America




What proof do you have?


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## ptldM3

iPhone said:


> Your yellow baboon made wild assumptions and generalization about every minority in America and ran a hateful campaign to stoke fear and hate among public and ended up in the office.
> 
> Now it's our turn to return the favor, pay him and his supporters back in the language they understand. Which is fact-free generalization. Now we are gonna tell it like it is.




I hit you with a wall of facts and your best rubutal is that you will get payback on Trump supporters 

What language do Trump supporters understand exactly? The violence has always come from leftist idiots and not Conservatives. Your generalizing about Trump supporters and what Trump stands for is false. You liberals don't respect fair elections, have no consideration for others and can not tolerate the fact that other people have different opinions. Most importantly is you are sore losers and crybabies that use violence and threats because that is all you know.

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## Gothic

AndyWitt said:


> Revoke Barack Obama's Nobel Peace Prize - Petition
> 
> We call on the Norwegian Nobel Committee to revoke Barack Obama's Nobel Peace Prize won by him on the grounds of absurd lies in 2009. Please join, sign the petition and share it if you also think that after eight years of continuous warfare Obama should return the prize and a full amount of prize money. The Nobel Peace Prize in hands of a true warmonger is a shameful betrayal of those who strive for real peace and justice, stand against wars and violence, stand against discrimination and human rights abuse.
> 
> Sing me: Revoke Barack Obama's Nobel Peace Prize - change org



Revoke his US citizenship aswell , as long as he exists within the american framework he's a threat not to american people but also to the democratic party whom they probably look up to as a mentor and top figure after the clinton legacy ..



ultron said:


> Both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are WASPs. This election was not about race or religion.



True that , those who thought hillary would win were proven wrong , aigh



ultron said:


> Fred Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu became good friends in the 1980s. Donald Trump hired Steve Bannon who is an exec at Breibart. Breitbart was founded by Andrew Breitbart who was a Jewish Zionist. Donald Trump says he will be the first president to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. All 8 of Donald Trump's grand kids are Jewish.



That will only make Trump only jealous of israelites , not fond of them , a vote for Trump was also a FU to israel and american jewry . It's like the movie american psycho where Trump was the only christian surrounded by jews in probably the most crappy sectors of business world in new york


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## T-72

speculation about the Trump cabinet on TYT





and a much more informed discussion on Infowars:


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## Gothic

*Robert Mugabe Wants To Restore Ties With The U.S.*


*







Zimbabwean president Robert Mugabe wants to return to the United States’ diplomatic fold after years of tense relations, and his administration is confident that president-elect Donald Trump will welcome him back.

Mugabe, 92, has been in power for 36 years, presiding over Zimbabwe’s slow descent from one of Africa’s most productive post-independence economies—know at one point as the continent’s “breadbasket“—into an economic basket casebesieged with angry protests. The US has imposed targeted sanctions against the Zimbabwean government since 2001, following a political and economic crisis that saw violent crackdowns by Mugabe and his supporters on opposition politicians and activists. Still, the superpower has continued to provide aid assistance to the impoverished southern African nation, investing nearly $100 million annually in health programs and other initiatives through USAID.

Mugabe’s government is looking forward to Trump’s inauguration next January as an opportunity to restore relations between Harare and Washington, Chris Mushowe, the country’s information, media and broadcasting services minister, toldThe Herald, a state-run, pro-Mugabe newspaper, last week.

“As a government, we were quite happy listening to Mr. Trump’s acceptance speech,” Mushowe said, welcoming what he saw as Trump’s pledge to work with every nation willing to cooperate with his administration. “Zimbabwe has never had any quarrel with America and does not need to have any quarrel with America.”

The Herald has been clear about the fact that it is not a fan of Democratic Party presidential nominee Hillary Clinton. It has accused the former secretary of state of being “a warmonger” at the “forefront” of supporting US sanctions against Zimbabwe. The newspaper also speculated that Clinton’s possible support of pro-democracy movements like the #ThisFlag campaign, an ongoing social media protest movement driven by young Zimbabweans, was aimed at unseating Mugabe and the ruling Zanu-PF.

It celebrated Trump’s “crushing” victory over Clinton last week, touting the potential benefits to the Zimbabwean government of the change in status quo, and mockingZimbabwean opposition parties and civic movements who expressed disappointment over her loss. Several articles hailed Trump’s “establishment-shaking populist victory” as a nod to nationalism, and a lengthy editorial argued that the media attacks and criticism Trump endured would help him “understand Western characterization of Zimbabwe.”

Mugabe has for years laid the blame for Zimbabwe’s economic troubles with the US, UK, and EU, rather than with his own failing policies and growing unpopularity. In his marathon speeches, he has insulted former US president George W. Bush, whose administration enacted sanctions against Zimbabwe, as well as president Barack Obama.

But his tune has changed for the incoming president. Mugabe has been rooting for a Trump presidency for some time now, reportedly warning visiting US lawmakers earlier this year that “Once [Trump] is your president, you’ll wish you’d been friendlier to me.”

*

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## Gandhi G in da house

iPhone said:


> Your country media may have decided to support and enable a right-wing nut job but that shitt wont fly here. We're gonna fight and resist this pussy grabbing, right wing fanatic orangutan.



Indian media actually has most channels which are left leaning and were not happy with Modi's election. 

And what do you mean by "that shitt wont fly here ?" Your shitty biased and dishonest media has already enabled his victory and made sure the shitt flew high, very high. Wake up he's won  . Thankfully a lot of the American public saw right through your media's lies.

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## T-72




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## heisenberg




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## Desert Fox

*Post Election, Dollar Soars to Highest Level in 14 Years*​





*The U.S. dollar index touched a near 14-year high on Wednesday, while oil prices fell in a volatile session as traders were caught between a build in U.S. stockpiles and the chance of an agreement on an output cut.*

On Wall Street, declines in bank stocks more than offset gains in the technology sector. *The S&P 500 had ended on Tuesday at a 10-week high while the Dow industrials set a record close, fueled by a post-U.S. election rally.*

“People with money on the sidelines are looking for a place to put it. They’re looking for names that haven’t rallied as much and ones that have rallied are taking a bit of a breather,” said Paul Hickey, co-founder at research firm Bespoke Investment Group in Harrison, New York.

*The dollar has surged in the past week, tracking Treasury yields higher on the expectation that increased U.S government spending could trigger higher inflation and force the Federal Reserve to tighten monetary policy more quickly than expected.*

*U.S. President-elect Donald Trump’s plans to cut taxes and increase infrastructure spending could boost economic activity while decreasing the deficit, and his proposals to deport illegal immigrants and impose tariffs on cheap imports are seen driving inflation lower.*

The dollar index, a measure of the greenback’s value against a basket of currencies, hit 100.57 , its highest since April 2003. It was last up 0.14 percent at 100.37.


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## Desert Fox

flamer84 said:


> "HAHAHA, He's running for the Republicans,what a clown! He'll never get the nomination hhaha"-Trumped !
> 
> "hahaha he's got the nomination,Hillary will destroy him,hahaha,"-Trumped!
> 
> Soon..."hahaha,he'll never get reelected".....Trumped !



*"Donald Trump Will Never Win" Compilation*





​Nobody can take the media or their rigged polls seriously after this epic fail.

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## Mugwop

trump supporters here still are angry even after his win.Just imagine if he had lost we would have anglo supremacists preying upon innocent and weak mexicans and Muslim women. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/us/politics/japanese-internment-muslim-registry.html?_r=0

^Leftist Propaganda






^Leftist Propaganda












^Another holocaust in the making to satisfy the sadistic nature of ring wingers


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## flamer84

Desert Fox said:


> *"Donald Trump Will Never Win" Compilation*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​Nobody can take the media or their rigged polls seriously after this epic fail.




Did you find out the latest news via the MSM ?

"Evil Trump goes out to dinner with his family without inviting the MSM!"

"Evil Trump wants to forego his salary,that's against the Constitution!"



These loosers re desperate.


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## Gandhi G in da house

Desert Fox said:


> *"Donald Trump Will Never Win" Compilation*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​Nobody can take the media or their rigged polls seriously after this epic fail.



This could possibly be the most epic and the most long lasting fail in the history of media .

Ironic that it happened in the sole superpower. Amazingly though, they still don't seem to have learnt their lesson.


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## flamer84

Mugwop said:


> trump supporters here still are angry even after his win.Just imagine if he had lost we would have anglo supremacists preying upon innocent and weak mexicans and Muslim women.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/us/politics/japanese-internment-muslim-registry.html?_r=0
> 
> ^Leftist Propaganda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^Leftist Propaganda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^Another holocaust in the making to satisfy the sadistic nature of ring wingers




1.One can't control who "supports" him.ISIS said they support him because it s bad for the US in their view.What can you do?.

2.Please save us a brain anevrism and don't list the young turds as a legitimate source.


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## Mugwop

flamer84 said:


> 1.One can't control who "supports" him.ISIS said they support him because it s bad for the US in their view.What can you do.
> 
> 2.Please save us a brain anevrism and don't list the young turds as a legitimate source.


isis need him and his speeches to brainwash more people to join their militia.
Well if you want I won't post any more videos from young turks.


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## flamer84

Mugwop said:


> isis need him and his speeches to brainwash more people to join their militia.
> Well if you want I won't post any more videos from young turks.



Man,you can do what you want but those guys have been prooved as class A liars and hypocrites.
As for the KKK ,don't tell me that they're on board with the fact that his daughter married a Jew and converted to Judaism.

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## ultron

flamer84 said:


> As for the KKK ,don't tell me that they're on board with the fact that his daughter married a Jew and converted to Judaism.




Both his sons from his first marriage also married Jews.

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## T-72

Navy SEAL destroys Hamas linked CAIR mullah

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## Russell

Ann Coulter on suggestions an Indian Nikki Haley might be up for the post of Sec of State

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## vostok

President-elect Donald Trump has named Reince Priebus, an Orthodox Christian, as his White House chief of staff come January 2017.

The forty-four year old Priebus has a long history in politics, and is a personal friend of House speaker Paul Ryan, which is expected to help in garnering legislative victories for the Trump administration, _The Guardian_ reports.

Priebus has served as state treasurer and Republican party chairman in Wisconsin, and took up the post of Republican National Convention chairman in 2011, becoming a loyal Trump campaign adviser and helping to garner broad support that led to his victory.

More importantly, the soon-to-be chief of staff is an Orthodox Christian, and through his efforts with fellow Orthodox Republicans, the need for defending religious freedom in places of high risk for Orthodox Christians was added to the Republic Party platform, according to the Greek Archdiocese’s official site.

Priebus is an active member of St. Sophia's Greek Orthodox Catheral in D.C. His 2016Paschal message reads:

_Christos anesti! I want to wish Orthodox Christians around the world a happy and blessed Easter. As our church has done for generations, we celebrate the resurrection of Christ and the love of God in providing a savior. Just as the first Christians praised God at the sight of the empty tomb, we too praise our good and merciful God today for his victory over the grave. Christ's sacrificial work provides an example for us all, and we join with the Psalmist in saying 'You make known to me the path of life.' Easter is a time for the celebration of new life, and I pray we will all draw on that new hope throughout the year,_

and on his personal Twitter account he exclaimed: “To my Greek Orthodox friends, Kalo Pascha and Christos Anesti!”
http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/98617.htm

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## DayDreamerz

Sir, he was known for being a chew,.. trumphooo and is also making his fun all around so if a so called Father cant reco him as a jew,,, who can he himself be ....Great.........its surly done by chew in you people i must not come here again and again cant send this much great english ,,,, why dont you come and check me i gave APP LOG MY ADDRES remember i am under their machine do not know what happens to my other posts too are they also made fudge like this as soo n as i leave,,is this making any sense NOW..maybe a little later it do not


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## Desert Fox

flamer84 said:


> Did you find out the latest news via the MSM ?
> 
> "Evil Trump goes out to dinner with his family without inviting the MSM!"
> 
> "Evil Trump wants to forego his salary,that's against the Constitution!"
> 
> 
> 
> These loosers re desperate.


They're pathetic losers. All they can do is continue to whine like the little b!tches they are. Nobody cares anymore about what they have to say. They're just clutching at straws now and looking ridiculous in the process.

I honestly hope all of the leftist "protests" continue to get more violent, it's doing great wonders for the Republican party and the Alt-Right.



Mugwop said:


> isis need him and his speeches to brainwash more people to join their militia.


ISIS was using Obama's speeches wherein he said he will bomb them in Syria, so it makes no difference.

And if you're implying a violent backlash from Muslims in the West as a result of Trump's victory then guess who that's going to hurt the most? Certainly not the non-Muslims if that's what you were hoping.

*Every terrorist attack and every Leftist riot pushes America further to the right.*


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## Darmashkian

LOL.... these guys are really horrible pollsters.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/795663593689808896




Though to be honest ,*every single pollster out there failed in predicting the conclusion. All of them have truly screwed up & have a LOT to answer for*. Their reputation is now in tatters
[Though I must add Nate Silver said there was a x<10% chance of Donald Trump becoming POTUS ,but HRC still gets the popular vote]

@KAL-EL @LA se Karachi I told you guys there was a "Silent" Trump voter out there which the polls didn't show 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*MY GOD HE ACTUALLY DID IT!! **He's becoming the next POTUS!  #M**A**G**A*





A small part of me always thought he would win... but I never believed he could actually do it!

@Desert Fox @T-72 @Nilgiri @boomslang Congrats guys!   YOU DID IT!! You were always positive about his victory even when the odds were low!!

So is there any party any of you are organizing? We have to celebrate the defeat of the Establishment & the MSM + the political destruction of the Bush & the Clinton families . 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Desert Fox said:


> *"Donald Trump Will Never Win" Compilation*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​Nobody can take the media or their rigged polls seriously after this epic fail.



I think this is the best one 

The last line gives it an excellent ending =D 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154488709621355





=================================================================================

Donald Trump was the focus of President Obama’s jokes at the 2011 White House Correspondents' Dinner. It was there that Trump resolved to run for president, adviser Roger Stone tells FRONTLINE in this scene from “The Choice 2016





"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

Guys this video could go down as one of the important moments in History!! He was invited by Obama to be humiliated & mocked!! 





& now a few years later,he has to teach the same guy the ropes of running the nation with the full knowledge his legacy is going to hell when he does become POTUS 





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@RabzonKhan @All those scared of Trump Mate.. don't worry too much.This is the USA we are talking about,not some random third world nation where a crazy religious mullah/army/tribal leader/out of control mob snatches control of the state ,brings suffering & torture upon their opponents & all institutions go to hell. Your nation has some pretty strong institutions! Your armed forces,judicial officials,state governors & reps. aren't walkovers politically,legally & psychologically .

Your Constitution & Bill of Rights won't be ignored & will always be held in great respect by EVERYONE.No Politico has the guts to say anything which isn't good about it, this includes Trump. If they go against it,the activists will go after them in the courts

No POTUS can ever have a free hand in doing whatever he wants,somebody will always oppose him for some reason(good or bad). Also the establishment,Democrats & the MSM will do their best to give him hell & oppose him.

& you live in Washington, a pretty Liberal State. Just keep yourself armed with a gun/some sort of weapon to keep the racists away if they attack you or ignore them if they mouth something at you. They are just drunk & elated with their success & they will stop later.

Already many of the Repubs don't like him anyway,so this will be no dictatorship. Yes,some choices/decisions of his will be pretty objectionable & controversial. But if he does anything totally ridiculous or totally self serving or serious like Nixon/HRC',he will be impeached. 
I bet he will be forced to scale down his Muslim ban(which even Paul Ryan said was wrong & could be challenged in the Supreme Court)

Add to that he is a businessman,they are always pragmatic(by nature & compulsion).He won't be a crazy ideologue like some politicos are! Yes he's gonna get stuff wrong,he's gonna make mistakes. (& yes he does do outrageous stuff & says stupid things)

But I can tell you after doing some research he has been planning this Presidential run for years, he truly loves his nation & cares about it & believes he as POTUS can do something good for it. He didn't enter the campaign for PR & money(which he is very sensitive about). He did it because he truly wants to help his nation...











Now that he has indeed become POTUS.. I do hope he succeeds in his aims, he can do it. He has many flaws.. but he can do it. 
Let us all HOPE for the best for the USA & the world. The last thing we need is for all his critics to be proved right. We don't need a nuclear war now, do we  

*One important point:-* A Professor who predicted Trump has a 87% chance of winning also said he could be impeached in his first term
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/16/alla...mpeached-in-office-within-his-first-term.html



jha said:


> Apparently Clinton's name has been cleared in the email scandal. Again..


Hehe ,but the damage has already been done Jhaji. People had remembered the scandal again.& the fact they examined so many emails in such less time had created suspicion & thus came the conclusion in many minds==> The system is rigged!! Trump is right! Drain the Swamp!/I'm not voting for her!

Even her own aides agree to this now



RabzonKhan said:


> Told you, Hillary is stability, Trump is a disaster, the madman with horrible temperament will ruin our economy and would send the economy back into recession and this time it will be even worse.
> 
> Vote wisely, and remember, in the end, it's the economy, stupid!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 350099
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Dow surges 300 points as FBI clears Clinton on eve of election*
> 
> The broad market looks on track to break a nine-day losing streak, Wall Street's longest in 36 years, as investors again start to price in their base case of a Clinton win. *Read more*
> 
> 
> 
> *Market Stampede sees US Dollar Steamroll British Pound, Euro and other Foreign Exchange Majors*
> 
> The US Dollar is outperforming its rivals as global financial markets rapidly price a Clinton victory in the hours before polling stations open across the United States. *Read more*


Well DOW jones did not collapse as was expected by many people.. It may not mean something positive,but atleast it was nothing negative.



Vergennes said:


> So,if Clinton wins,Bill will become the first lady ?


Naa I think HRC would be the first lady, Bill would be the First Husband/Gentleman/Man



Meengla said:


> Florida? Why would any Latino vote for Trump? He was unpopular to Black folks to begin with, then alienated whatever little Muslim votes there were, and then pi$$ed off the Latinos. Unless Latinos and Blacks stay home, I don't see a Republican President for years.
> Trump's downfall will be his own *big mouth*! He had a real chance. Had it been Biden, instead of Hillary, Trump would be humiliated big time.
> But then... the night depends on how many Latinos and Blacks come out. Trump surely has a passionate following--motivated, like Blacks were for Obama in 2008.


Trump insulted only the MEXICAN LATINOS!! Not all of them.

Latinos are divided among sub nationalities and religion! When he attacked Mexicans,it didn't bother the others-puerto Ricans,cubans,salvadorians,venezuelans,argentinians etc etc too much

& Florida is majority Cuban Latino! You find Mexican Latino in the border states or in Illinois+New York in good nos.!

& now It seems the Cuban Hispanics didn't care if he insulted the Mexicans, they are usually pro Repub as a group. They hate castro & are Christian conservatives! Though the younger ones are more liberal



Śakra said:


> This is really Hillz fault. She completely *ignored* the rural White vote. Why ignore the largest demographic in your country??


Arrogance or her team & of herself. She thought the Obama coalition+Moderate Repubs would sweep her to the White house. She also totally ignored Michigan & Wisconsin after the Democratic Primaries. -_- unlike Trump

In her entire team,only her husband talked of doing something to get the votes of Rural whites+white working class. He carried out some rallies,but it was far from enough

_"But in general,__ Bill Clinton’s viewpoint of fighting for the working class white voters was often dismissed with a hand wave by senior members of the team as a personal vendetta to win back the voters who elected him, fr__om a talented but aging politician who simply refused to accept the new Democratic map. At a meeting ahead of the convention at which aides presented to both Clintons the “Stronger Together” framework for the general election, senior strategist Joel Benenson told the former president bluntly that the voters from West Virginia were never coming back to his party."_

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-aides-loss-blame-231215

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-loses-2016-election-214439



Desert Fox said:


> People underestimated the Silent Majority, people kept poking at the sleeping giant, well now they must face it's wrath.


BANG ON

The Deplorables Trumped the Establishment,the MSM & the Obama Coalition!




LA se Karachi said:


> I can only imagine what must be going on at the White House right now...


Read this, it's long. But it gives you an idea what his reaction was like
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/28/obama-reckons-with-a-trump-presidency

https://bgr.com/2016/11/09/obama-speech-trump-election-white-house/

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## T-72

Darmashkian said:


> @Desert Fox @T-72 @Nilgiri @boomslang Congrats guys!   YOU DID IT!! You were always positive about his victory even when the odds were low!!


well, if you followed him right from the start and watched his rallies you knew there was something special happening with tens of thousands crowding those big arenas with some showing up 8 - 10 hours before his speech just to get a good spot, not normal for a politician, not even in the US. Shame the media establishment never truly showed the scale of his events, they'd talk about it in passing mentioning big crowds but were always dismissive and trying to dampen just how popular he really was/is. 

meanwhile Crooked Hillary, who now looks like she's dying for real, was struggling to even fill high school gymnasiums and people caught the media trying to prop her crowds up with camera techniques etc many times. 30 people showed up to a Tim Kaine event in the last 2 weeks of the race to see him in the crucial swing state of Florida.

apart from crazed feminists, there was never any enthusiasm for crooked neocon Hillary, she had zero independent commentators endorsing her, those who did, did so with their noses held tight. So apart from the msm, she had no support anywhere. Shame about Bernie, shame that he was treated the way he was, and shame that he sold out the way he did.



Darmashkian said:


> @RabzonKhan @All those scared of Trump Mate.. don't worry too much.This is the USA we are talking about..


yup, but their lefty msm is already flooding their airwaves with stories of bullying in random high schools etc, 'growing intolerance' 

Trump is too smart a person to be a hateful bigot, people see through that, which is why crooked illary lost. He seems to be pretty straightforward guy, not polished, but not evil either. I'm convinced he doesn't hate any specific group of people, those who support him because they think he does are going to be sorely disappointed.

Anyway, short of declaring war, where he'll need congressional approval, President Trump will be most free of shackles in how his administration conducts their foreign policy. John Bolton and Mitt Romney's name have been floating around as possible next Secretary of State, Bolton is probably the worst of the neocons, with Romney, maybe they have an insider system of rewarding past presidential race losers with plump postings like the SoS, who knows. 

Gen Flynn got NSA:





very impressive credentials, he's hardcore, fired for not being politically correct lol






I think he understands the sallafist threat quite well and is pro detente with Russia instead of helping those saudi al qaeda guys in Syria. Good to know he'll have President Trump's ear on that stuff. 



also, US citizens, allies, enemies, randoms, a lot of different people have a lot of different expectations of this Trump presidency  

not everyone will be pleased, let's see how he handles this mother of all pressure cooker situations.

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## Darmashkian

Nilgiri said:


> Its the dawn of a new beginning.
> 
> The Right will begin to seriously feed off this Trump victory all across the civilised world. Its about time as people shed the political correct BS fed to them by the leftist cartel (who have cleverly transitioned into stealth + deception mode ever since the USSR imploded big league)....... and vote for common sense and hopefully non-political creatures (to stick it to the political elite abandoning them). This is what democracy is about truly....and it happened in the greatest democracy on Earth so there is hope for everyone else.
> 
> *2016.....what a year! I was at my prime of my life when it happened.....do I have a story to tell my grandkids down the road *


The world is becoming more conservative!

World leaders like Abe,Cameroon,Modi,Trump,Duterte,Netanyahu,Erdogan etc are rising & wining elections.

UKIP,The National Front,BJP & other right wing forces are rising & becoming stronger!

The Liberal-Left consensus among global elites post WW2 & post the Cold war is Collapsing to make space for the simple conservative nationalism of the tired,frustrated & energized masses!

This entire story of their rise & fall, the inspirational stories of such world leaders will make amazing stories to younger generations in the future(nephews & nieces  )... & if I have kids with my crush 



T-72 said:


> Pocahontas ?
> 
> much debunked already, that Simpsons episode was aired in late 2015


@xenon54 No, you are right on the fact that the Simpsons predicted a President Trump 

Check this old episode from the year-2000 where Lisa becomes POTUS after Trump =D =D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_to_the_Future)
"I_n the opening credits of the episode "Havana Wild Weekend", aired on November 13, 2016, Bart writes "Being right sucks" as the chalkboard gag in reference to Donald Trump winning the 2016 U.S. presidential election, predicted by this episode.__[23_]" 





Show creator Matt Groening said last month: “Back in 2000 Trump was, of course, the most absurd placeholder joke name that we could think of at the time and that’s still true. It’s beyond satire.”

It talks of the budget crunch inherited from President TRUMP .

Could there be some oracle on the Simpsons show ??


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## Salman Janbaaz

I read a tweet which aptly gave the outline of trump's selection for key positions calling it "an Islamophobic's Wet Dream"


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## heisenberg

Salman Janbaaz said:


> I read a tweet which aptly gave the outline of trump's selection for key positions calling it "an Islamophobic's Wet Dream"


The man who earlier stood no chance in presidential elections, one who was mocked by liberals is now the POTUS. What if he wins as a President too and fulfills all his promises. Nothing can be ruled out for a confidant and tough personality like Trump in the land of dreams.

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## DayDreamerz

ha ha ha ,,, tweet is another problem WE have got another GREAT tweeter here , TELLING HIS HISTORY , about DR. A.Iqbal ,,, NO chance of winning a election AND WON same Like Imran KHan here 70% chances r his to win peo[ple have seen enough of Nawz.s ,, Byebye ,,, BUT just like H.Clinton was also too sure about her winning is know weaning RIGGING RIGGING ,,,, tough jews only knows this way ,,, thats how they r what ever they BECOME AND SHOW THE WORLD ,


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## T-72

DayDreamerz said:


> Sir was known for being a chew trumphooo and is also making his fun all around so if a so called Father cant reco him as a jew who can he himself be ....Great.........





DayDreamerz said:


> ha ha ha ,,, tweet is another problem WE have got another GREAT tweeter here , TELLING HIS HISTORY , about DR. A.Iqbal ,,, NO chance of winning a election AND WON same Like Imran KHan here 70% chances r his to win peo[ple have seen enough of Nawz.s ,, Byebye ,,, BUT just like H.Clinton was also too sure about her winning is know weaning RIGGING RIGGING ,,,, tough jews only knows this way ,,, thats how they r what ever they BECOME AND SHOW THE WORLD ,



can anyone make sense of that ?

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## Dr. Strangelove

T-72 said:


> can anyone make sense of that ?


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## LA se Karachi

Darmashkian said:


> Though to be honest ,*every single pollster out there failed in predicting the conclusion. All of them have truly screwed up & have a LOT to answer for*. Their reputation is now in tatters
> 
> [Though I must add Nate Silver said there was a x<10% chance of Donald Trump becoming POTUS ,but HRC still gets the popular vote]
> 
> @KAL-EL @LA se Karachi I told you guys there was a "Silent" Trump voter out there which the polls didn't show




I think it had more to do with turnout than the "silent voter" issue, given that we are talking about polls. Sure enough, just as I had warned us earlier, not enough young voters and disaffected Democrats showed up to the polls. While white, rural and working-class voters swung hard for Trump. 

But with that said, yes, pollsters did a terrible job. I said before that if Trump were to win despite what polling showed, it would be unprecedented. He did, and it was. 



Darmashkian said:


> *One important point:-* A Professor who predicted Trump has a 87% chance of winning also said he could be impeached in his first term
> http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/16/alla...mpeached-in-office-within-his-first-term.html




I remember reading articles about him before the election. I thought his prediction was interesting given what polling was showing, and wondered what would happen to him after the election. Well, it turns out that he was right. His streak continues. 



Darmashkian said:


> the political destruction of the Bush & the Clinton families



We can all toast to this. 

Hillary had just one job to do. _One simple job_. She manged to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory yet again. I never want to see any of the Clintons (or Bushes) in politics again. 



Darmashkian said:


> & Florida is majority Cuban Latino! You find Mexican Latino in the border states or in Illinois+New York in good nos.!
> 
> & now It seems the Cuban Hispanics didn't care if he insulted the Mexicans, they are usually pro Repub as a group. They hate castro & are Christian conservatives! Though the younger ones are more liberal




You sure seem to know a fair bit about American politics. Kudos. 



Darmashkian said:


> She thought the Obama coalition+Moderate Repubs would sweep her to the White house.




Indeed she did. I never thought that winning over some moderate Republicans would be enough. And sure enough, it wasn't. 



Darmashkian said:


> She also totally ignored Michigan & Wisconsin after the Democratic Primaries. -_- unlike Trump




It was very foolish of her to not spend time campaigning in those states (until the very end). She should have fallen back to these "firewall" states, instead of campaigning in states like North Carolina, Arizona, Ohio, and Iowa. She didn't need any from the latter group to to win. 



Darmashkian said:


> In her entire team,only her husband talked of doing something to get the votes of Rural whites+white working class. He carried out some rallies,but it was far from enough




We Sanders supporters repeatedly warned people about this. Ignoring the will of working-class whites and rural voters was a dangerous idea. Not only that, she did not appeal to either young voters or independents. Winning the primary with the votes of reliable Democrats and high-turnout, older voters was a bad idea. Sure enough, these issues proved to be fatal in the Presidential election. 



T-72 said:


> Shame about Bernie, shame that he was treated the way he was, and shame that he sold out the way he did.




With all due respect, please refrain from this "sold out" nonsense. His ideas were much closer to Hillary's (he's a leftist, obviously), and he's made his views about Trump very clear, regardless of what you might think. Sanders hates the man and his ideas. He will be fighting Trump on his first day in office. Other than on trade, Trump is diametrically opposed to just about everything Sanders believes in. 



Darmashkian said:


> Let us all HOPE for the best for the USA & the world. The last thing we need is for all his critics to be proved right. We don't need a nuclear war now, do we




Agreed. But I'm fairly certain that we will indeed be proven right. It's not just his views, but his total lack of experience in government that worries me. I'm not sure he has any idea what do on his first day in office. Not to mention his checkered past as businessman and as a person.

He also has an uneasy coalition of working-class rural voters, rich Republicans and business interests, religious/social conservatives, and xenophobic/"alt-right" types. Someone is almost always going to end up unhappy with his decisions. 



Darmashkian said:


> Read this, it's long. But it gives you an idea what his reaction was like
> http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/28/obama-reckons-with-a-trump-presidency




Thanks for the link. A very interesting read. Just what I was looking for. 

But the photo you posted says it all: 







 I have seen so many of these kinds photos of the US President meeting someone over the years. And this one takes the cake. Neither man can seem to believe that this is actually happening. Obama's face is priceless.


Trump: "I can't believe I'm actually going to be the next President of the United States."

Obama: "I can't believe he's actually going to be the next President of the United States." 



Darmashkian said:


> Check this old episode from the year-2000 where Lisa becomes POTUS after Trump =D =D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_to_the_Future)
> "I_n the opening credits of the episode "Havana Wild Weekend", aired on November 13, 2016, Bart writes "Being right sucks" as the chalkboard gag in reference to Donald Trump winning the 2016 U.S. presidential election, predicted by this episode.__[23_]"





Darmashkian said:


> Show creator Matt Groening said last month: “Back in 2000 Trump was, of course, the most absurd placeholder joke name that we could think of at the time and that’s still true. It’s beyond satire.”




Imagining Donald Trump as our President still makes me laugh. It's almost too comical of an idea to take seriously. Alas, these are the times we live in. The Simpsons jokes are real life now. I've believed for a while now that the world as I know it is ending. Everyday my belief gets stronger and stronger...

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## Devil Soul

SEOUL: US President-elect Donald Trump's national security adviser says North Korea's nuclear program would be given a high priority under the new administration, a South Korean official who held talks with him said on Saturday.

Michael Flynn, one of Trump's closest advisers, also said he would work to strengthen the US alliance with South Korea, calling the relationship "vital," the South's deputy presidential national security adviser Cho Tae-yong was quoted as saying by Yonhap news agency.

Cho was leading a South Korean delegation to the United States to meet with key advisers to the president-elect to discuss the two countries' response to the North's pursuit of nuclear weapons in defiance of international sanctions.

Cho spoke to South Korean reporters in Washington following the meeting with Flynn, Yonhap said.

Flynn is a retired Army lieutenant general and a military intelligence veteran of three decades who has championed Trump's promises to take a more aggressive approach to terrorism. His appointment as national security adviser this week does not require Senate confirmation.

The North conducted its fourth and fifth nuclear tests this year under young leader Kim Jong Un, who has vowed to build a nuclear arsenal and ballistic missiles to deliver them. The UN Security Council has held discussions to adopt a toughened new sanctions resolution following the North's Sept. 9 nuclear blast.

US President Barack Obama has been criticized by Congressional Republicans that his policy of "strategic patience" was a failure and that he must make full use of sanctions authorities given to him by Congress.

Trump pledged his commitment to defend South Korea under an existing security alliance during a phone call with South Korean President Park Geun-hye, Yonhap said last week.

Trump had suggested during the election campaign he would be willing to withdraw US military stationed in South Korea unless Seoul paid a greater share of the cost of the deployment. There are about 28,500 US troops based in South Korea in combined defense against North Korea.
http://dailytimes.com.pk/world/19-N...to-make-north-korea-nuclear-threat-a-priority


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## DayDreamerz

Dr. Stranglove said:


>


At least apP the Great loog have asked Me some thing if it refers to me but me not mentioned ,,, to me Big Sir then Dr. Sahab said that , i am tired of slave mentallity of my Nation , So he left for England among many others , But DR sahab convinced them Back , Please ASK IF ITS ME I AN NOT VERY GOOD AT ENGLISH but typos makes it more musiebAAt for mE as massi museebtAAy <<< Refered to no 1 again...... for the 1 who likes to AsK ,Me is a bit new and do not know why i am so disrespectful ...please refer to my mistakes maybe maybe havent done them i am against chews in you so they can have my ID used any time they LIKE as SHIAS,,,to cxhabge it to their likings or diskike

F,B was playing the same trick because of so many reasons 1 ,,, chews in you SHias ,, 2 hijacked juke box 3 hijacked songs , 4 hijacked Pictures , 5 telling or reminding you your doing of 80s which have been erased like hitlers doing it goes for the WORLD , 5 some 1 was climing this is her and theirs ,,, this is last for now ,, am i making any sense now DEAR SIRS G ,,, OR just chews are watching it ,,can change it any time ,,me here or not,,,Me not sure just a cockroach in my eye OR i have posted more then these just erased ,,,, just now was showing 63 jumped to 83


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## Dr. Strangelove

DayDreamerz said:


> At least apP the Great loog have asked Me some thing if it refers to me but me not mentioned ,,, to me Big Sir then Dr. Sahab said that , i am tired of slave mentallity of my Nation , So he left for England among many others , But DR sahab cpnvinced them Back , Please ASK IF ITS ME I AN NOT VERY GOOD AT ENGLISH but typos makes it more musiebAAt for mE as massi museebtAAy <<< Refered to no 1 again for the 1 who likes to AsK ,Me is a bit new and do not know why i am so disrespectful ...please refer to my mistakes maybe maybe havent done them i am against chews in you so they can have my ID used any time they LIKE as SHIAS
> 
> F,B was playing the same trick because of so many reasons 1 ,,, chews in you SHias ,, 2 hijacked juke box 3 hijacked songs , 4 hijacked Pictures , 5 telling or reminding you your doing of 80s which have been erased like hitlers doing it goes for the WORLD , 5 some 1 was climing this is her and theirs ,,, this is last for now ,, am i making any sense now DEAR SIRS G ,,, OR just chews are watching it ,,can change it any time ,,me here or not,,,


hey if u want to say something be straight forward and stop writing gibberish


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## DayDreamerz

WHY SHOULD I REPLY TO A shia IN YOU OR hidden ONE THEY R ALL T T P IN APP LOOG THATS WHAT I AM SAYING YOU GIVING THEM EXCESS TO ANY THING MEANS IT CAN BE HAPPENING WITH EVERY 1 ,NO BIGGIE now ,,, HAAN TU SAAB KUCH HI HOOTAA JAA RAHAA HAI SADAAR MAMOON IS A SHIA TOO ,,, SAME AS MAIN ITNA MASHOOR HOTAA JA RAHA HOON KIA MAIN GEN RAHEEL SHARIF HOOTA JA RAHA HOON ,,,

OOYYEE SHIOOO saghaab logoon ko apna madhab CHECK KARAOO R U STILL MUSLIMS OR NOT ,,HIDDEN 1 KAAY BARRAY MAIN ABHI PATA NAHIN ,,,,,,, CHAALO OYYEE ZARA JALDIIII KAROOOO,,,,,USELESS ABHI PHIR CHANGE MARRAY GA NEW id MAGAR JAISAY HI PARTHAY GA PHIR CHANGE

MAIN BHI KAHooN BARII KIOON NAHIN ATI ,,,,T T P KI ,, idher meray pass bhi machine paay or idher bhi khud yaa shia in contact ...eik hi baat hui taqreebann.............

or kia kia jaantaa hai tu merraaay barraay main zara tafseelaaan bata daay eik hi dafa ,, abb kia yee bhi bhool gaya main urdu kaisaay likhain,,, pull shit shia urf chew ,,,,


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## Zabaniyah

DayDreamerz said:


> WHY SHOULD I REPLY TO A shia IN YOU OR hidden ONE THEY R ALL T T P IN APP LOOG THATS WHAT I AM SAYING YOU GIVING THEM EXCESS TO ANY THING MEANS IT CAN BE HAPPENING WITH EVERY 1 ,NO BIGGIE now ,,, HAAN TU SAAB KUCH HI HOOTAA JAA RAHAA HAI SADAAR MAMOON IS A SHIA TOO ,,, SAME AS MAIN ITNA MASHOOR HOTAA JA RAHA HOON KIA MAIN GEN RAHEEL SHARIF HOOTA JA RAHA HOON ,,,
> 
> OOYYEE SHIOOO saghaab logoon ko apna madhab CHECK KARAOO R U STILL MUSLIMS OR NOT ,,HIDDEN 1 KAAY BARRAY MAIN ABHI PATA NAHIN ,,,,,,, CHAALO OYYEE ZARA JALDIIII KAROOOO,,,,,USELESS ABHI PHIR CHANGE MARRAY GA NEW id MAGAR JAISAY HI PARTHAY GA PHIR CHANGE
> 
> MAIN BHI KAHooN BARII KIOON NAHIN ATI ,,,,T T P KI ,, idher meray pass bhi machine paay or idher bhi khud yaa shia in contact ...eik hi baat hui taqreebann.............
> 
> or kia kia jaantaa hai tu merraaay barraay main zara tafseelaaan bata daay eik hi dafa ,, abb kia yee bhi bhool gaya main urdu kaisaay likhain,,, pull shit shia urf chew ,,,,



I'm planning to run a mental institution in case anyone is interested.


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## DayDreamerz

hahahah again they have done it
eik word sahab main G enter kia kaay nahin before any 1 have even read it<<<iska pata nahin kia hOOo shias nain madhaab check krwaya kaay nahin ...r u human chews whats inside tappuu???

daas dafa check ki hui post hai Pakistan went over Nepal was a heading of a thread was changed to bangladesh right infront of my foolish eyes ...ha ha ha give shias anything

abb tu yee bhi pata nahin mujhaay kia dikhaya hai or wahaan kia haaiiii IF ITS POSSIBLE
KOI sir yahaan se a kaar mu;aahizaa karnaa chahaain tu

mulahizaaaa this is how checked that old post and is still changed typos and what NOT ,,,, 

Main bahoot hi mashoor hootttaaa jaa rahaa hoonn ,,,kia main SIR gen SIR raheel shareef hootttaaa ja raha hooo,,,,,,though i never used GREAT NAME OF GREAT SIR here or any where else but just in this so called poetry ,,,,if ir can be called Poetry

the pic on avator is changed to something ,,,, you cant find it anywhere i can remake it or ask any 1 to do it IF HE SHE can all by urself SIR if its on AIR then Hijacked FROM HERE ,, means every thing is changed on face BOOK too while their r only shias sitting their or hidden at least they know each other

KOOn sa G C ,,,,,, see they are karting you not your class though the best trainned tomandos SIRS G they musnt leave now must have changed my address too,, its flat no 874 LDA FLATS MODEL TOWN Extention model town LHR ,, at least every shia knows it BUT not the real ones the MUSLIMS ,,

next to me above my head over it down 2 more 874 -B means floor no 2 he is in 875 B right shiayyy machine on me shiayy

GOOD luck shiaayyy Army operation here he will be informed pehlaay shia says here safe area shia says here ,,,,,,Every thing i have done or told you about you belongs to them is it true SIRS G ..? it was in you before shias have erased it have done that in 80s your old BIG BOSS TOLD THE NATION so we knows ,,,Every history is been changed m each and every thing single single of your trainning uptill then ,, thats what HE BY then told us by then how it all went round only app log can tell ,,, if u dont believe who shias r PLEASE RE CHECK ,, its your religion TOO its no shame sirs G too check every ones MUSLIM or it is a MUSLIM will not waste a Second ,,,

Just chacka of eyes recieved a Alert but been erased are net providing companies involved too ,,,, no alert its saying ,,,the shias their r not sleeping to as in thana here LIAQAT ABAD ,,, some 1 was suggesting you call thana to you and check thjeir T T P ,,, but first check inside you ,,,,,, otherwise they will make you look like POLICE

clearing shias from their will END all corruption from every where they are the one resposible for every thing in cities and every department comes under them spotted by APP LOG IN EIGHTIES

MDE of sirs G so so so sorry for what i have not donbe along others they RESPECT YOU WHOLE HEARTEDLY FOR SURE ,,, MEN AT THEIR BEST PAKISTAN ARMY aiseey hi nahin log kehtaay yaa app

nain invent kia tha this in 1980s re-invented by you again just a small mandaaak of you and your country sardarii copier of 1980s SIR GEN SIR M ZIA UL HAQ each and every thing ,,, BARAK OBAMA and more copying SIR GEN SIR PERVAIZ MUSHARAF EVEN IN WALKING what else me do not know yesterdays threat ,,thats why every one OLDIES of you is afraid of telling you any thing HOW and WHO have been doing it ,,,

LAST news warmest of welcome SIR GEN SIR R.SHAREEF IS COPIED BY THE PERSON YOU ARE SEEING IN AVATOR ,,,,,, ALL BY YOUR OLD ONES TO YOU ALREADY GIFTED APP LOG BUT DO NOT KNPOW WHAT HAPPENED ,,,, IS POISON IVY GOT EATEN TOO ALONG TRY THEIR TAPPUS TO SOME ACID MAKER AND HE CAN MAKE A BETTER ACID TO DESTROY IT ,, erased or still here ,,,,

check him speaking LOlz meanz my jokes r still publishing abroad thought its safe here hehehe khekhekhe and hahaha lolz every 1 is doing that great MUFT MAIN MILLAY HAIN but they r not spreading it muft ,,, lala zar ,, hehehe


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## T-72

LA se Karachi said:


> With all due respect, please refrain from this "sold out" nonsense. His ideas were much closer to Hillary's (he's a leftist, obviously), and he's made his views about Trump very clear, regardless of what you might think. Sanders hates the man and his ideas. He will be fighting Trump on his first day in office. Other than on trade, Trump is diametrically opposed to just about everything Sanders believes in.


When he endorsed crooked Hillary, he endorsed war and regime change.

Our perspectives on this are obviously very different, I'm not American, don't live there so I don't care about your domestic issues, nor would it be fair for me to take a stand on those. I never even cared too much for what it might mean for India or this region in specific, thankfully, bad as it is, this is not something that will keep the President of the US up at night and worrying all day (not just yet anyway lol). The middle east mess, and possible conflict with Russia aka ww3 will, and on those issues Donald has been really common sense and smart all along.

We want a new US foreign policy, a non interventionist and common sense one like Trump's been talking about for a year and a half. He's promised lots, I hope he delivers.

give Trump a chance !


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## Darmashkian

It seems that Mrs Nixon predicted Trump's victory & success in politics before any of us ever did ..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/796397087839703040







Atlantic Wolf said:


> While I'm willing to give Trump a chance, isn't it worrying that he puts people like Jeff Sessions and Stephan Bannon in high positions?


@Atlantic Wolf 
They remained loyal to him & supported him throughout his campaign when he received flak from so many Republicans & Conservatives. It's only natural that he reward them.

I won't defend Bannon ,but I will quote one of his best journos here:-"
_"I Am A Gay Jew And Steve Bannon Made Me Into A Star" _-Milo Yiannopaulos

http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/11/18/milo-channel-4-gay-jew-steve-bannon-made-star/

*DO NOT FALL FOR EVERYTHING THE MSM SAYS. *They are shamelessly biased in favour of the Democrats & they still can't beleive that Donald Trump just Trumped their candidate =D 

& Jeff Sessions isn't that bad of a person, yes he is anti-marijuana & anti-illegals. But I don't believe he is racist anymore
Read this article
http://theresurgent.com/how-the-med...-proves-they-learned-nothing-on-election-day/
This is from an Indian American

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/799675749796028420

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/799675882403205120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/799675957695148032
==========================================================
& look at how Trump is dealing with Chris Christie right now despite him being the first person to endorse Trump!! He & his loyalists have are begin marginalized & kicked out
https://nypost.com/2016/11/13/trump-is-dumping-christie-over-bridgegate-insiders/
_President-elect Donald Trump is so disgusted with Chris Christie’s handling of the Bridgegate scandal that he’s kicking the New Jersey governor out of his inner circle, The Post has learned.

“Trump thought it was shameful that Christie didn’t take the fall for [convicted aide] Bridget Kelly,” said a source close to the transition team. “Trump is really angry that Christie is sending a soccer mom to jail. He believes 100 percent that Christie was behind it all.”_
=============================================================================
So perhaps he isn't that bad of a person & his choices won't be that bad.

His choice of head for the CIA is a really good choice,one even #NeverTrump Repubs & libertarians like Justin Amash strongly endorse & support

@Desert Fox

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## T-72

lol

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## LA se Karachi

T-72 said:


> lol

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## XenoEnsi-14

iPhone said:


> Now it's our turn to return the favor, pay him and his supporters back in the language they understand. Which is fact-free generalization. Now we are gonna tell it like it is.


And I join PDF with two American flags and declared an anti-Muslim Islamophobe. So you mean to tell me fact-free generalization was non-existent from people like you prior to this election? ... I think not. 

You obviously hate Constitutional elections, or is it just this one? 


PS: You are doing exactly what he wants you to do.

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## LA se Karachi

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> And I join PDF with two American flags and declared an anti-Muslim Islamophobe. So you mean to tell me fact-free generalization was non-existent from people like you prior to this election? ... I think not.




I'm pretty sure that he was referring to crazier Trump supporters like Desert Fox, not to Americans in general. 

To lump him in with some other people who may have assumed some things about you is completely unfair. Just like some nativist right-wingers who assume things about immigrants, Muslims, and even non-whites in general.



XenoEnsi-14 said:


> You obviously hate Constitutional elections, or is it just this one?




People are free to express their opinions, even if you disagree with them, as long as they do it peacefully. Also, many people agree with him:

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## T-72

LA se Karachi said:


>


Trump's numbers went up after that.


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## Desert Fox

*Trump/Putin Billboard – “Make the World Great Again”*​




_Cars pass by a billboard showing US President-elect Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin placed by pro-Serbian movement in the town of Danilovgrad on November 16, 2016._

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## kamrananvaar

Mentee said:


>


If there was any doubt about whether Donald Trump meant business with his hard-line campaign pronouncements on immigration, race, terrorism and more, the president-elect went a long way to dispel them Friday with his first appointments to his national security team and at the Justice Department.

Trump's trifecta in selecting Sen. Jeff Sessions for attorney general, retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn for national security adviser and Rep. Mike Pompeo to lead the CIA sent a strong message that Americans are going to get what they voted for in electing a Republican whose campaign talk about national security matters largely toggled between tough and tougher.

There has been ongoing mystery about what to expect in a Trump presidency: Even some of Trump's own supporters wrote off some of his more provocative campaign comments. Trump's own policy statements have zigged and zagged depending on the audience. And his first two appointments to the White House staff — GOP Chairman Reince Priebus as chief of staff and onetime Breitbart News chief Steve Bannon as a senior adviser — sent a mixed message with the choice of an establishment figure and a flame-throwing outsider.

But Friday's picks offered a concrete indication that Trump's presidency may in fact be headed sharply to the right on issues of national security.

"If you believe in personnel as policy, it's pretty clear where the arrows are pointing," says Calvin Mackenzie, a presidential scholar at Colby College in Maine.

Princeton historian Julian Zelizer says the three choices all represent conservative figures with track records in government, not "wildly out-of-the-box people who don't even come from the world of politics."

"That's a message not just about him following through on his campaign promises, but it's about partisanship," says Zelizer. "He's giving a signal to the Republicans to stick with him because he'll deliver."

Trump still has plenty of big appointments yet to make, including secretary of state, that could telegraph other directions. And Congress, too, will have a say in setting national security policy.

Trump's three latest all have sharply differed with Obama administration policy:

—Sessions, the Alabama senator and former federal prosecutor, is known for his tough stance on immigration enforcement. He's questioned whether terrorism suspects should get the protection of the U.S. court system, opposes closing the detention center at Guantanamo Bay and has highlighted concerns about voting fraud, which the Obama administration sees as a non-issue. He has said Obama's counterterrorism policies have "emboldened our enemies" and those concerned about warrantless wiretaps have "exaggerated the extent to which this is somehow violative of our Constitution." His appointment to a federal judgeship in 1986 fell through after he was accused of making racially charged statements while U.S. attorney in Alabama.

—Pompeo, the three-term congressman from Kansas, is an outspoken opponent of the Iran nuclear deal, has said NSA leaker Edward Snowden is a traitor who deserves the death sentence and has said Muslim leaders are "potentially complicit" in terrorist attacks if they do not denounce violence carried out in the name of Islam.

—Flynn stepped down as director of the Defense Intelligence Agency in April 2014 and said he'd been forced out because he disagreed with Obama's approach to combatting extremism. Critics said he'd mismanaged the agency. Flynn has pressed for a more aggressive U.S. campaign against the Islamic State group, and favors working more closely with Russia.

The three appointments sync up with messages that Trump voters sent in the exit polls on Election Night.

Trump's backers put a higher priority on addressing terrorism and immigration than did Clinton's supporters. Three-fourths of them said the U.S. was doing very badly or somewhat badly at dealing with IS. Just 2 in 10 thought blacks are treated unfairly in the U.S. criminal justice system. Three-fourths backed building a wall on the southern border to control illegal immigration.

Trump's positions, meanwhile, have gone through different iterations, continue to evolve and still have big gaps.


On immigration, his views have arrived at a policy that sounds much like Washington as usual. The approach he sketched out in a post-election interview on "60 Minutes" would embrace the Obama administration's push to deport the most serious criminals who are in the U.S. illegally as well as the call by many Republican lawmakers to secure the border before considering any legal status for those who've committed immigration violations but otherwise lived lawfully. He even pulled back a bit on his vaunted southern wall, suggesting a fence may be enough for part of it.

Trump the campaigner also moved away from his inflammatory vow to freeze the entry of foreign Muslims into the U.S., settling late in the race on "extreme" vetting of immigrants from countries and regions plagued by violent radicalism.

He's vowed to crush the Islamic State group, but he won't say how.

Trump has also said he believes in enhanced interrogation techniques, which can include waterboarding and other types of torture that are against the law and that many experts argue are ineffective.

Republican Rep. Devin Nunes of California, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, on Friday dismissed Trump's comments about waterboarding as the talk of a "first-time neophyte running for office."

"Water-boarding coming back, I find that hard to believe," he said.

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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> *Trump/Putin Billboard – “Make the World Great Again”*​
> View attachment 353817​
> 
> _Cars pass by a billboard showing US President-elect Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin placed by pro-Serbian movement in the town of Danilovgrad on November 16, 2016._


this is great, the worlds 2 leading nuclear weapon and military powers might come to some sort of understanding and may even ally against groups like ISIS and FSA 

unless you're a crazy person who either wants a caliphate (a jihadi) or a crazy person who feeds off the idea of crazy people doing crazy things for sake of establishing one, and wants to wage wars for regime change all over the middle east (a neocon), why would anyone have a problem ? 

Marine Le Pen knows the score: 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-election-le-pen-idUSKBN13B230


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## LA se Karachi

T-72 said:


> Trump's numbers went up after that.




I was just reminding people what Romney really thinks of Trump.


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## ultron

Desert Fox said:


> *Trump/Putin Billboard – “Make the World Great Again”*​
> View attachment 353817​
> 
> _Cars pass by a billboard showing US President-elect Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin placed by pro-Serbian movement in the town of Danilovgrad on November 16, 2016._




Putin is a bastard dictator. To be fair, Merkel is an even bigger bastard dictator, in power since 2005.


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## T-72

LA se Karachi said:


> I was just reminding people what Romney really thinks of Trump.


There was also this in 2012






same elite club, this might be the great Trump deception, a populist experiment on the right.












or maybe he's just being magnanimous and pragmatic.


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## LA se Karachi

Well, Trump endorsing Romney in 2012 wasn't surprising. But what Romney said this year about Trump was very scathing:

_"I am far from the first to conclude that Donald Trump lacks the temperament of be president. After all, this is an individual who mocked a disabled reporter, who attributed a reporter's questions to her menstrual cycle, who mocked a brilliant rival who happened to be a woman due to her appearance, who bragged about his marital affairs, and who laces his public speeches with vulgarity."

"We will only really know if he is the real deal or a phony if he releases his tax returns and the tape of his interview with the New York Times. I predict that there are more bombshells in his tax returns. I predict that he doesn't give much if anything to the disabled and to our veterans. I predict that he told the New York Times that his immigration talk is just that: talk. And I predict that despite his promise to do so, first made over a year ago, he will never ever release his tax returns. Never. Not the returns under audit, not even the returns that are no longer being audited. He has too much to hide. Nor will he authorize the Times to release the tapes. If I'm right, you will have all the proof you need to know that Donald Trump is a phony."

"Mr. Trump is directing our anger for less than noble purposes. He creates scapegoats of Muslims and Mexican immigrants, he calls for the use of torture and for killing the innocent children and family members of terrorists. He cheers assaults on protesters. He applauds the prospect of twisting the Constitution to limit first amendment freedom of the press. This is the very brand of anger that has led other nations into the abyss.

Here's what I know. Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud. His promises are as worthless as a degree from Trump University. He's playing the American public for suckers: He gets a free ride to the White House and all we get is a lousy hat.

His domestic policies would lead to recession. His foreign policies would make America and the world less safe. He has neither the temperament nor the judgment to be president. And his personal qualities would mean that America would cease to be a shining city on a hill."_

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## T-72

just rhetoric, they're done campaigning and the race is over, so clean slate and back to business now ? 

Trump goes skinny dipping in the swamp lol


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## LA se Karachi

T-72 said:


> just rhetoric, they're done campaigning and the race is over, so clean slate and back to business now ?
> 
> Trump goes skinny dipping in the swamp lol




Try as you might, you can't dismiss everything he said as "rhetoric". He criticized not only his temperament and personality, but he criticized his political proposals and business failures as well. Those things about Donald Trump will not change.

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## RiazHaq

http://www.riazhaq.com/2016/11/impact-of-trumps-top-appointments-on-us.html

Who are President-Elect Donald Trump's top picks for his Cabinet and White House staff positions? What are their views on US domestic and foreign policies? How will they shape US policies on national security, immigration, minority rights and foreign relations?

Are critics right about their reservations regarding Trump's top choices of Steve Bannon (Chief White House Strategist), Gen Michael Flynn (National Security Advisor), Jeff Sessions (Attorney General), Michael Pompeo (CIA Director) and Chris Kobach (Immigration)?

What should Muslims do in response to appointments of known Islamophobes like Michael Flynn, Steve Bannon, Chris Kobach and others? Should they support civil rights groups like Council on Islamic Relations (CAIR), American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) to challenge any anti-Muslim policies and actions? Should they make common cause with other ethnic and religious minorities to defend their civil rights? Should they put more efforts into inter-faith harmony?

What will Team Trump's policy be toward India and Pakistan? Will they favor India over Pakistan? Will they pressure Pakistan to comply with US demands in the region, particularly with respect to Afghanistan? Will they collaborate with India to isolate Pakistan? How will Pakistan respond to such pressure? Is there a risk that Pakistan might go rogue?

Viewpoint From Overseas host Faraz Darvesh discusses these questions with panelists Misbah Azam and Riaz Haq (www.riazhaq.com)










Related Links:

Haq's Musings

Trump & Modi

Is Husain Haqqani Advising Trump?

US Elections 2016

Trump Phenomenon

Trump's Muslim Ban

Talk4Pak Think Tank

VPOS Youtube Channel

VPOS Vimeo Channel


VPOS Dailymotion Channel




http://www.riazhaq.com/2016/11/impact-of-trumps-top-appointments-on-us.html


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## Solomon2

Last week, The Post invited readers to share why they voted for Donald Trump. We’ve received more than 1,600 responses. Below are some of their answers.

*WHY I VOTED FOR TRUMP*​...11 of 29

*Deniz Dolun*
22 years old • Boca Raton, Fla.

My entire family — five Muslim immigrants from Turkey — voted for Donald Trump in Florida because of the Democratic Party’s pandering to Islamism. As people who have actually experienced Islamism in its purest form, back in Turkey, we supported the candidate who promised to help us fight that issue, regardless of any of his other policies. For us, the people of the Middle East, this election was just too important to hand over to someone such as Hillary Clinton.

...20 of 29
*James Brady*
74 years old • Tennessee

I voted for Donald Trump based on my Christian values. I didn’t know a lot about Trump but I knew too much about the Clintons. This country needs to get back on track with God, to give God praise, honor and glory each and every passing day. He is worthy. I pray for the new administration that will take office in January. I believe if Hillary Clinton had won the election we would be dead in the water. Too many things she sought to get passed were against any Christian belief for those who are true to Christ.


link
​

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## T-72

LA se Karachi said:


> Try as you might, you can't dismiss everything he said as "rhetoric". He criticized not only his temperament and personality, but he criticized his political proposals and business failures as well. Those things about Donald Trump will not change.


2 ways to look at it, either it's a big man move/magnanimous gesture from Trump to try and reach out and unify his party, or that the system is rigged and the elites are all in bed. Remember that they both took swipes at each other, if Romney made one big speech, Trump went out night after night calling him a choker and mocking him to huge crowds of tens of thousands of people.

The "failed" businessman thing is a ridiculous charge anyway, even if some of his ventures (airline/education) didn't succeed. Apart from his initial 'muslm ban/total shutdown' comment, which I thought was a bit extreme, what exactly has he proposed that is so radical ? He's walked back on the muslim ban since, and did end up doing better than Romney with Latinos and Blacks so...

Trump is not thin skinned either, he's probably made of some of the thickest skin ever, a year and a half of essentially being called Hitler by all major news outlets in the US, and he still wins the presidency. 

#tremendous


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## ultron

T-72 said:


> Apart from his initial 'muslm ban/total shutdown' comment, which I thought was a bit extreme, what exactly has he proposed that is so radical ?




He said that in the context of the huge Islamic State attack in Paris. Otherwise he would not have said that. Every country has the right to do what it sees necessary to protect its civilians from terrorism, even if it means temporarily banning a whole religion from entering.


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## T-72

ultron said:


> He said that in the context of the huge Islamic State attack in Paris. Otherwise he would not have said that. Every country has the right to do what it sees necessary to protect its civilians from terrorism, even if it means temporarily banning a whole religion from entering.


He made those comments in the wake of the San Bernardino attacks, which is why I sort of give him a pass on that too (heat of the moment etc) but either way, it was months before the primaries even began, and the fact is that he has since walked it back. 

Stuff like banning any people belonging to an entire race/religion is quite retarded in this day and age, but given the timing, Trump probably knew what he was doing.


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## ultron

T-72 said:


> Stuff like banning any people belonging to an entire race/religion is quite retarded in this day and age, but given the timing, Trump probably knew what he was doing.




Not really. Let's say there is a hate group in Cuba that hates Americans and one member kills 500 people in the US, you can bet your pants the US would ban all Cubans from entering.


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## T-72

ultron said:


> Not really. Let's say there is a hate group in Cuba that hates Americans and one member kills 500 people in the US, you can bet your pants the US would ban all Cubans from entering.


Muslims only make 2 or 3% of the total population in the US so in a sense it's understandable how people have reacted to Donald Trump's ideas. They're also not a monolithic group culturally or racially, black people from various parts of Africa, east Asians, white Slavs, there are all sorts of different muslim groups, a ban is retarded, you know it too, superboy.

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## ultron

T-72 said:


> Muslims only make 2 or 3% of the total population in the US




Not it doesn't. Even Jews are only 2% of the US population. Muslims is about 0.1% tops.


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## T-72

ultron said:


> Not it doesn't. Even Jews are only 2% of the US population. Muslims is about 0.1% tops.


Whatever it might be, the point was that most people, despite the regressive left's best efforts, didn't respond very sensitively to Donald Trump's rhetoric because Islam is alien to most of them.

Think about it, if Trump really follows through and knocks the hell out of ISIS, FSA etc with Putin, he'll end up making Islam great again too.


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## ultron

T-72 said:


> Whatever it might be, the point was that most people, despite the regressive left's best efforts, didn't respond very sensitively to Donald Trump's rhetoric because Islam is alien to most of them.
> 
> Think about it, if Trump really follows through and knocks the hell out of ISIS, FSA etc with Putin, he'll end up making Islam great again too.




The vast majority of Muslims don't even like Islamic State. If temporarily banning Muslims from entering the US makes American citizens including Muslim American citizens safer, Muslim American citizens may agree to that approach.

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## T-72

ultron said:


> The vast majority of Muslims don't even like Islamic State. If temporarily banning Muslims from entering the US makes Americans citizens including Muslim American citizens safer, Muslim American citizens may agree to that approach.


shorthand speech, he expects everyone to 'get it' when he says something like, in case of Mexicans, that they're "bringing drugs, crime and rape" and that it didn't mean all Latino or even all Mexican people.



ultron said:


> The vast majority of Muslims don't even like Islamic State. If temporarily banning Muslims from entering the US makes Americans citizens including Muslim American citizens safer, Muslim American citizens may agree to that approach.


shorthand speech, he expects everyone to 'get it' when he says something like, in case of Mexicans, that they're "bringing drugs, crime and rape" and that it didn't mean all Latino or even all Mexican people.


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## cloud4000

ultron said:


> The vast majority of Muslims don't even like Islamic State. If temporarily banning Muslims from entering the US makes American citizens including Muslim American citizens safer, Muslim American citizens may agree to that approach.



I would say feeling safe and actually being safe are two different things. Those Muslims immigrating or visiting from Muslim countries already face extra scrutiny, so I don't know how much more scrutiny you can add. In addition, how do you stop Muslims entering from non-Muslim countries like UK? I don't believe US asks for you religion on visa applications. 

The biggest threat of ISIS in US are homegrown terrorists. Muslims who have become radicalized online. No amount of immigration reform is going to stop this.


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## RabzonKhan

And that's just the start, people, agay agay dekho hota hai kya. 


*Trump camp denies he sought favor in Argentine call
*
Heidi M. Przybyla , USA TODAY3:32 p.m. EST November 21, 2016

President-elect Donald Trump's spokesman denied Monday an Argentine news report that Trump sought a business favor when that nation's president called to congratulate him on his Nov. 8 election victory.

"Not true," Trump transition spokesman Jason Miller told USA TODAY in an email.

Trump’s Buenos Aires office building project has been delayed by a series of issues, including financing and permitting requirements. When Argentine President Mauricio Macri called Trump to congratulate him on his election victory, Trump asked Macri to address the permitting issues, according to Jorge Lanata, one of the country’s most prominent journalists.

*“This still hasn’t emerged but Trump asked for them to authorize a building he’s constructing in Buenos Aires, it wasn’t just a geopolitical chat,” said Lanata, who is quoted in La Nacion, one of Argentina’s leading dailies. A translation was provided by Talking Points Memo.*

Reporter Will Carless in Buenos Aires tweeted that Macri's spokesman told him that the La Nacion was not true and that Trump did not ask about his project during the call with Macri.

*During the campaign, Trump said Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton was guilty of "pay to play" by accepting donations to her family charity, the Clinton Foundation, from foreign countries like Qatar. There was never any indication she granted favors on behalf of those donors as secretary of State.*

*Trump has been receiving a flurry of calls from foreign leaders after his Nov. 8 election victory. The report comes as he is facing scrutiny over his business empire, which he says he will hand off to his adult children. The Trump team has called the arrangement a “blind trust.” Government ethics experts say it is not blind since his kids will be running it and that it raises significant concerns about foreign and domestic policy decisions he’ll face that would impact his global business networks.*

Trump is also including his children in his transition team and his daughter, Ivanka, was seen attending a closed-door meeting last week with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. The Washington Post reported over the weekend that about 100 foreign diplomats gathered for a reception in a ballroom at Trump Hotel in Washington in which many of them openly questioned whether staying at a Trump hotel will help them curry favor with the new president.

*The New York Times reported that in the last week Trump met with three Indian business partners who flew from India to congratulate him. The trio is building a Trump-branded luxury apartment complex south of Mumbai. In a picture posted on Twitter, all four are smiling and giving a thumbs-up.* *Link*




Desert Fox said:


> The only racists here are the leftists/Liberals who create racism where there is none and who think they can trash everyone else and impose their distorted worldview on the rest of humanity.


Yeah, right! This is coming from someone who posts racist propaganda. 

William Johnson, page 25-----post 361

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/william-daniel-johnson

Jared Taylor Page 43-----post 641

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/jared-taylor

Now go ahead and deny that William Johnson and Jared Taylor are not racists.




> PS if it's that bad you can move to Mexico (don't go to Canada, Europe, Australia or New Zealand, there's more White people in those countries  ).


What nonsense, when did I say things are bad here? Almost 95% of my friends are white and I live in a white neighborhood, in fact, I showed your post to some of my buddies and they could not stop laughing.


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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> And that's just the start, people, agay agay dekho hota hai kya.
> 
> 
> *Trump camp denies he sought favor in Argentine call
> *
> Heidi M. Przybyla , USA TODAY3:32 p.m. EST November 21, 2016
> 
> President-elect Donald Trump's spokesman denied Monday an Argentine news report that Trump sought a business favor when that nation's president called to congratulate him on his Nov. 8 election victory.
> 
> "Not true," Trump transition spokesman Jason Miller told USA TODAY in an email.
> 
> Trump’s Buenos Aires office building project has been delayed by a series of issues, including financing and permitting requirements. When Argentine President Mauricio Macri called Trump to congratulate him on his election victory, Trump asked Macri to address the permitting issues, according to Jorge Lanata, one of the country’s most prominent journalists.
> 
> *“This still hasn’t emerged but Trump asked for them to authorize a building he’s constructing in Buenos Aires, it wasn’t just a geopolitical chat,” said Lanata, who is quoted in La Nacion, one of Argentina’s leading dailies. A translation was provided by Talking Points Memo.*
> 
> Reporter Will Carless in Buenos Aires tweeted that Macri's spokesman told him that the La Nacion was not true and that Trump did not ask about his project during the call with Macri.
> 
> *During the campaign, Trump said Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton was guilty of "pay to play" by accepting donations to her family charity, the Clinton Foundation, from foreign countries like Qatar. There was never any indication she granted favors on behalf of those donors as secretary of State.*
> 
> *Trump has been receiving a flurry of calls from foreign leaders after his Nov. 8 election victory. The report comes as he is facing scrutiny over his business empire, which he says he will hand off to his adult children. The Trump team has called the arrangement a “blind trust.” Government ethics experts say it is not blind since his kids will be running it and that it raises significant concerns about foreign and domestic policy decisions he’ll face that would impact his global business networks.*
> 
> Trump is also including his children in his transition team and his daughter, Ivanka, was seen attending a closed-door meeting last week with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. The Washington Post reported over the weekend that about 100 foreign diplomats gathered for a reception in a ballroom at Trump Hotel in Washington in which many of them openly questioned whether staying at a Trump hotel will help them curry favor with the new president.
> 
> *The New York Times reported that in the last week Trump met with three Indian business partners who flew from India to congratulate him. The trio is building a Trump-branded luxury apartment complex south of Mumbai. In a picture posted on Twitter, all four are smiling and giving a thumbs-up.* *Link*



Trump needs to get in his head that he is no longer a businessman, even as President-elect. He must get into the mindset that he's President and must act like a President, which not only means that he carries himself like one, but follow the rules that Presidents need to follow.

At the rate he's going, he going to be impeached. He's a scandal waiting to happen.

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## RabzonKhan

Darmashkian said:


> @RabzonKhan @All those scared of Trump Mate.. don't worry too much.


I have said it several times, it's not about me. My fear is that Trump and his hard-line aides, Mike Flynn and Steve Bannon, to name a few, inflammatory rhetoric will further damage our relationship with the Muslim world and could even fuel more Muslim extremism, and that will certainly benefit AQ, Taliban and IS terrorists.

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## ultron

Poroshenko became Ukraine president and never sold off his business. Donald Trump will pass power to Donald Trump. Donald Trump became CEO in 1971 at the age of only 25. Donald Trump keeps hogging it and not pass it to Donald Trump.

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## SQ8

ultron said:


> The vast majority of Muslims don't even like Islamic State. If temporarily banning Muslims from entering the US makes American citizens including Muslim American citizens safer, Muslim American citizens may agree to that approach.


Hardly. That is the idiocy of the whole idea that somehow people coming in bring the issues. We already have such strict measures that whatever does get past does so because it got through the internet. Even the wife of the guy who murdered his colleagues got connected with him via the internet. 
The florida nightclub guy was someone who coped with his own homosexuality and frustrations by turning to internet based Jihad elements for salvation. 

In all of this, the issue is the internet. We already solved the issue of who is coming in and who is not post September-11.

I'll tell you a plain thing. There is a guy whose facebook profile I have kept saved. He belongs to the Hizb-ut-tahrir; openly calls for caliphate and throwing the US out of "Muslim" lands. He is in Philly. I reported his profile, his posts to every possible reporting agency. 

Now, why is he still out there posting? What is the wait for? 
Are they waiting for some legal precedent under free speech? Are they waiting until he decides to go buy a assault rifle and then use it? 
What are they waiting to take him down for?

It is this inaction that leads to incidents like Florida and California, and will continue to do so. 
Those coming in are already scrutinized enough. In case of the California dude; they made the cardinal mistake of simply ignoring scrutiny under the Fiance guise.


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## LA se Karachi

T-72 said:


> 2 ways to look at it, either it's a big man move/magnanimous gesture from Trump to try and reach out and unify his party, or that the system is rigged and the elites are all in bed. Remember that they both took swipes at each other, if Romney made one big speech, Trump went out night after night calling him a choker and mocking him to huge crowds of tens of thousands of people.




Oh, I'm sure he's trying to unify his party and look good. I'm just saying that Romney had some choice words for him this year before he became President.



T-72 said:


> The "failed" businessman thing is a ridiculous charge anyway, even if some of his ventures (airline/education) didn't succeed.




It's not just that many of them failed, but also that he made so much money from these failures.



T-72 said:


> Apart from his initial 'muslm ban/total shutdown' comment, which I thought was a bit extreme, what exactly has he proposed that is so radical ? He's walked back on the muslim ban since, and did end up doing better than Romney with Latinos and Blacks so...




Well, I was just pointing out how much disdain Romney has for Trump. Obviously, our views differ greatly on Trump and his policies.

Although, Reince Priebus (an establishment Republican, by the way) recently said that while there are currently no plans for a registry of Muslim immigrants based on faith, he's "not going to rule anything out".

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## Solomon2

*SCOTT ADAMS' BLOG*
*Persuasion Versus Populism*
Posted November 21st, 2016 @ 12:24pm in #Trump

I’m hearing lots of after-the-fact explanations for why Trump won the election. The most common interpretation of events is that many citizens had a view of the country that pundits, pollsters, and the Clinton campaign missed. But somehow Trump accurately identified the mood of the people – especially in the Great Lakes region – and crafted a message to fit their emotions.

That explanation of events fits the observed data. Trump’s priorities do seem to match what polls tell us people are thinking and feeling. Or at least enough people feel that way to give Trump the Electoral College win. In this view of the world, Trump is a populist who has good instincts about what people want to hear.

But as I have been teaching you for the past year, people can be living in different movies while physically inhabiting the same spacetime. In your movie, Trump might be a populist as the experts are saying. But in my movie, Trump is a Master Persuader. And the script for my movie fits the observed facts just as well as yours. Maybe better.

The Master Persuader filter says Trump didn’t identify and match the preferences of the people so much as _*cause*_ them to think the way they are thinking. My filter on the election says that Trump’s skill for persuasion could have given him the victory with DIFFERENT policies than the ones he championed – such as Bernie Sanders policies. And Trump would look like a populist in that case too.

Keep in mind that most voters are handcuffed to their party’s candidate. That guarantees that most elections will be close, no matter who runs. The winner is the candidate who can move perhaps 5% of voters from column A to B. And the Master Persuader had a year-long election cycle and total media exposure to get that minor task accomplished. This is why I predicted Trump’s win a year before it happened. 

I don’t believe reality is something the human brain can understand. We didn’t evolve with the ability to see reality for what it is. Evolution only cares if we survive and procreate. In this case, people who think Trump is a populist can have babies, and so can the people who think we elected Hitler, and so can the people who think Trump is a well-meaning Master Persuader. That’s three different movies. Evolution doesn’t care which worldview is right, if any. It only cares that we can make more babies. And we can.

Still, it might matter who has the most “useful” movie among us. The Master Persuader movie did a good job in predicting Trump’s success. It also predicts Trump moving to the middle, persuading Pence to be more LGBTQ-friendly, and good relations with other countries. That’s the movie plot I see coming.

But some of you are in a movie that is dark and dangerous. Perhaps you see a world in which the next Hitler just came to power. Some of you see a clown with no skill coming to power because his populist message was effective. Those are scary movies compared to my feel-good film. If you could switch to my movie, and lose nothing but your anxiety for the future, wouldn’t you want to do it? In my movie, we have lots of Trump success ahead and none of the dark possibilities will come to pass.

So how can you tell whether or not you are in the wrong movie? I’ll give you a few clues.

Consider…

If Trump didn’t win because of his persuasion skills, which other Republican candidate can you imagine beating Clinton?

You might be thinking that Clinton’s email problems and the Comey announcements made her an unusually weak candidate, and that means any sane Republican could have beaten her. But you’d be wrong. The reason that the emails, the Comey decisions, and Wikileaks were so effective is that Trump had been labelling Clinton “Crooked Hillary” for months. That created the confirmation bias trap that made everything Clinton ever did sound suspicious. None of the other candidates would have crafted such a perfect persuasion trap.

I also have a hard time imagining any other candidate going after Bill Clinton so hard that it took him out of the game. Was Jeb going to do that?

If you believe Trump’s skill for persuasion _*wasn’t*_ the key variable in his win, you have to imagine some other candidate beating Clinton with the same set of policies as Trump. Personally, I can’t imagine it.

If you think Trump is the next Hitler, or a clown who got lucky with his populist message, you have to ask yourself why the stock market and the dollar are both up following the election. The smartest money-managers in the world have already abandoned their old movies and jumped over to movies they see as more useful for making money, apparently.

If you think Trump is the next Hitler, you have to ask yourself why every major world power has already said they think they can work with him, no problem.

If you think Trump is a lucky incompetent who inherited money from his father, you have to explain why he has succeeded in real estate, reality TV, and now politics. Can incompetent people win that bigly in three different arenas while everyone is watching?

If you think Trump has anti-semite advisors, you have to wonder why his son-in-law Jared Kushner hasn’t noticed any of that and is working hard for Trump.

If you think Trump is a racist, you have to wonder how he learned to act so well that he could be in this picture looking as non-racist as a person can look.





And if you think Trump is any or all of the things you heard from the mainstream media, you have to wonder why they were so thoroughly wrong about the one thing that can be measured objectively – the election results.

You might also wonder why the anti-Trump protests are petering out. If a real Hitler came to power, would people get tired of walking around outside to protest? 

The biggest demographic group opposing Trump – including the ones on the street – are young people. Objectively speaking, young people are the dumbest people within every demographic group. I was dumber when I was younger. So were you. So is everyone else. Ask yourself if it is a coincidence that the dumbest people within every demographic group lean in the same direction.

The Master Persuader filter says that young people have not yet experienced multiple situations in which the media scares the public over nothing. To them, the fear of Trump is real because the Internet and the media says it is real. To people my age, we have seen one fake media scare after another. We don’t believe in fake scares the same way that that young people do because we’ve been through it so many times.

As the election season fog begins to clear, most people will start to see Trump as an unconventional president whose policies conform to the preferences of the governed. But that simple movie is boring. I invite you to join my movie, in which each of us has a small role in making America Great Again. You just have to find your part.

It’s a good movie. I think you’ll like it.


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> Almost 95% of my friends are white and I live in a white neighborhood


*Why not move to a Black or Mexican neighborhood?* Oh, right, you're a racist hypocrite.

You "liberals" are the purest form of hypocrites; you preach diversity to others but live in White countries/neighborhoods yourselves and interact with Whites only.

I just showed your post to some of my Black and Mexican buddies and they laughed at your racist hypocrisy

PS, i'm enjoying the amount of liberal butt hurt caused by Trump and his new administration full of Alt-Righters.



RabzonKhan said:


> Yeah, right! This is coming from someone who posts racist propaganda.
> 
> William Johnson, page 25-----post 361
> 
> https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/william-daniel-johnson
> 
> Jared Taylor Page 43-----post 641
> 
> https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/jared-taylor
> 
> Now go ahead and deny that William Johnson and Jared Taylor are not racists.


So how many people has Jared Taylor killed? He has the right to his views no matter how much you might disagree with him. At least he's not preaching beheading people and selling women into sex slavery.

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## Hamartia Antidote

*Trump Dumps Pledge to Prosecute Clinton as He Refines Agenda*

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...ests-he-ll-drop-pledge-to-investigate-clinton


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## RabzonKhan

Agay agay dekho hota hai kya. 







*Trump Foundation admits to violating ban on ‘self-dealing,’ new filing to IRS shows*

By David A. Fahrenthold November 22

President-elect Donald Trump’s charitable foundation has admitted to the IRS that it violated a legal prohibition against “self-dealing,” which bars nonprofit leaders from using their charity’s money to help themselves, their businesses or their families.

That admission was contained in the Donald J. Trump Foundation’s IRS tax filingsfor 2015, which were recently posted online at the nonprofit-tracking site GuideStar. A GuideStar spokesman said the forms were uploaded by the Trump Foundation’s law firm, Morgan, Lewis and Bockius.

The Post could not immediately confirm if the same forms had actually been sent to the IRS.

*In one section of the form, the IRS asked if the Trump Foundation had transferred “income or assets to a disqualified person.” A disqualified person, in this context, might be Trump — the foundation’s president — or a member of his family, or a Trump-owned business.*

*The foundation checked “yes.”*

Another line on the form asked if the Trump Foundation had engaged in any acts of self-dealing in prior years. The Trump Foundation checked “yes” again.

Such violations can carry penalties including excise taxes, and the charity leaders can be required to repay money that the charity spent on their behalf.

*During the presidential campaign, The Washington Post reported on several instances in which Trump appeared to use the Trump Foundation’s money to buy items for himself or to help one of his for-profit businesses.*

But the new Trump Foundation tax filings provided little detail so it was unclear if these admissions were connected to the instances reported in The Post.

The Trump Foundation tax forms did not, for instance, describe any specific acts of self-dealing. They also did not say whether Trump had paid any penalties already. That kind of detail would be submitted on a separate IRS form, which was not included in the information posted online Monday.

Spokesmen for Trump’s presidential campaign did not respond to a request for comment early Tuesday.

*The New York attorney general’s office is investigating Trump’s charity, following up on reports in The Post that described apparent instances of self-dealing going back to 2007. A spokesman for Attorney General Eric Schneiderman declined to comment, other than to say “our investigation is ongoing.”*

The IRS also did not immediately respond. That agency has not said if it is investigating the president-elect’s charity.

*The Trump Foundation has existed since 1987. This appeared to be the first time that it had admitted committing such a violation.*

Philip Hackney, who formerly worked in the IRS chief counsel’s office and now teaches at Louisiana State University, said he wanted to know why the Trump Foundation was now admitting to self-dealing in prior years — when, in all prior years, it had told the IRS it had done nothing of the kind.

“What transactions led to the self-dealing that they’re admitting to? Why weren’t they able to recognize them in prior years,” Hackney said. He said that, since the prior years’ returns were signed by Trump, that opened the president-elect to questions about what he had missed and how.

*During the presidential campaign, The Post revealed several instances — worth about $300,000 — where Trump seemed to have used the Trump Foundation to help himself.*

In two cases, The Post reported, the Trump Foundation appeared to pay legal settlements to end lawsuits that involved his for-profit businesses.

In one case, Trump settled a dispute with the town of Palm Beach, Fla., over a large flagpole he erected at his Mar-a-Lago Club. The town agreed to waive $120,000 in unpaid fines if Trump’s club donated $100,000 to Fisher House, a charity helping wounded veterans and military personnel. The Trump Foundation paid that donation instead — effectively saving his business $100,000.

In another, Trump’s golf course in New York’s Westchester County was sued by a man who had won a $1 million hole-in-one prize during a tournament at the course. The man was later denied the money because Trump’s course had allegedly made the hole too short for the prize to be valid.

The lawsuit was settled, and details on that final settlement have not been made public. But on the day that the parties told the court that their lawsuit had been settled, the Trump Foundation donated $158,000 to the unhappy golfer’s charity. Trump’s golf course donated nothing.

*In three other cases, Trump’s foundation paid for items that Trump or his wife purchased at charity auctions. In 2012, Trump bid $12,000 for a football helmet signed by then-Denver Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow.*

*In another case, from 2007, Trump’s wife, Melania, bid $20,000 on a six-foot-tall portrait of Trump painted by “speed painter” Michael Israel during a gala at Mar-a-Lago. And in 2014, Trump bid $10,000 to buy a four-foot painting of himself by artist Havi Schanz at another charity gala.* *Read more*

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## Beidou2020

Hamartia Antidote said:


> *Trump Dumps Pledge to Prosecute Clinton as He Refines Agenda*
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...ests-he-ll-drop-pledge-to-investigate-clinton



Trump is playing it smart.

If he says he will prosecute Clinton, Obama will immediately pardon her. 

It is not up to Trump anyway, it's up to the FBI and AG.

Trump knows Obama still has the powers to Clinton off the hook.

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## RabzonKhan

Wow, it looks like draft-dodging is a family tradition. 


*In 1905 Bavaria Kicked Out Draft-Dodger Donald Trump’s Draft-Dodging Grandpa*
By Hrafnkell Haraldsson on Tue, Nov 22nd, 2016

Oh dear. Some things really do never change, do they?

Friedrich Trump returned to Bavaria in the early 1900s but since he had skipped out without completing his obligatory service in the Bavarian army (like grandson Donald would later dodge service in the United States Army) he was labeled a draft-dodger and had to go. *Read more*



Desert Fox said:


> *Why not move to a Black or Mexican neighborhood?* Oh, right, you're a racist hypocrite.
> 
> You "liberals" are the purest form of hypocrites; you preach diversity to others but live in White countries/neighborhoods yourselves and interact with Whites only.
> 
> I just showed your post to some of my Black and Mexican buddies and they laughed at your racist hypocrisy


As usual, you're not making any sense. See, I'm not a narrow-minded bigot, I don't see America as a white country, but a great country, and that's why I came here.

Why I don't “move to black or Mexican neighborhood”, because there are no black or Mexican neighborhoods in my city, genius. I live in a small city that is 92.7% white, the rest are mostly Natives, Vietnamese and others, and that is the reason most of my friends are white, understand, genius.

Bty, with the exception of your favorite Jared Taylor and the Alt-right racists, I don't think average decent whites have a problem with diversity.



> So how many people has Jared Taylor killed? He has the right to his views no matter how much you might disagree with him. At least he's not preaching beheading people and selling women into sex slavery.


Talk about diversion tactics, I mentioned Jared Taylor's name in response to your bogus claim that liberals “create racism where there is none”, sorry, if I embarrassed you.

Let me remind you that this thread is not about me, and I don't have time for such silly discussion.

Cheers!

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## Hamartia Antidote

RabzonKhan said:


> Friedrich Trump returned to Bavaria in the early 1900s but since he had skipped out without completing his obligatory service in the Bavarian army (like grandson Donald would later dodge service in the United States Army) he was labeled a draft-dodger and had to go. *Read more*!



Well to be fair the guy arrived in America at the age of 16, became a US citizen at age 23, and went back to visit after the year 1900 which would make him over 30. So if that makes him a Bavarian army dodger then probably a lot of immigrant people in the US today are technically also draft dodgers.

As for Donald...don't know what excuse he has.



Beidou2020 said:


> Trump is playing it smart.
> 
> If he says he will prosecute Clinton, Obama will immediately pardon her.
> 
> It is not up to Trump anyway, it's up to the FBI and AG.
> 
> Trump knows Obama still has the powers to Clinton off the hook.



Obama can (and probably will) do the same thing Ford did with Nixon.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Proclamation_4311


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## ultron

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Obama can (and probably will) do the same thing Ford did with Nixon.
> https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Proclamation_4311




Whatever Obama does can be undone by Trump.


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## Hamartia Antidote

ultron said:


> Whatever Obama does can be undone by Trump.



Well yes he can technically do that. Maybe that was really what his announcement meant...he wouldn't unpardon her.


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## Russell

Gov. Nikki Haley is to be the new US Ambassador to the UN.

Nikki Haley used to be Nimrata Randhawa - but then she converted to Christianity. She was a mediocre Governor in South Carolina.


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## HAIDER

WASHINGTON: US president-elect Donald Trump released a video message on Monday, sharing with his nation the executive actions he plans to take on his first day in the White House.

The two-minute, 38-second video made it clear that Trump’s election agenda was not just campaign rhetoric.

He is serious about the promises he made during the campaign and intends to implement them. During the campaign, Trump promised to withdraw from global trade agreements and instead make bilateral deals with the nations that would favour America.

And he announced in the video that on his very first day in office he would issue a notification announcing America’s withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), a 2015 trade agreement among a dozen Pacific-rim countries, including the United States, Japan, Malaysia, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and Mexico.

Reacting to Trump’s announcement, Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said the other 11 nations were still willing to ratify the agreement. “So, Mr Trump and his new congress will have to make their own decisions in America’s interest.”

Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said “as the democratically-elected next leader of the United States,” it was Mr Trump’s right to “make the policy decisions he thinks right”. Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said the agreement would be “meaningless” without the United States while economists warned that the withdrawal would increase Japan’s reliance on China.

Trump also vowed to end overseas hiring, a plan that may hurt developing economies across the globe that provide cheap labour for western companies. “Whether it’s producing steel, building cars or curing disease, I want the next generation of production and innovation to happen right here, in our great homeland America — creating wealth and jobs for American workers,” he said.

The president-elect, who looked directly into the camera as he laid out his early governing priorities, said the video was an update on the first 100 days of his administration. He said the transition team that prepared the list included “truly great and talented men and women” who will soon be a part of our government, “helping us to make America great again”.

Trump also announced his plan to loosen restrictions on shale energy and “clean coal”, saying those actions would create “millions of high-paying jobs”.

He said he would “formulate a rule that says that for every new regulation, two old regulations must be eliminated”.

On national security, Trump said he would work with the Department of Defence and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff “to develop a comprehensive plan to protect America’s vital infrastructure from cyber-attacks and all other forms of attack”.

On immigration, he said he had directed the Labour Department to “investigate all abuses of visa programmes that undercut the American worker”. According to the US Department of Homeland Security there are 11 million undocumented immigrants in the country.

Trump also pledged to crack down on former administration officials becoming lobbyists, saying he would institute a five-year ban on domestic lobbying and a lifetime ban on lobbying foreign governments.

*Not to pursue cases against Clinton*
Trump will not pursue investigation of Hillary Clinton related to her private email server and the Clinton Foundation, his close aide said on Tuesday.

He had earlier vowed to appoint a special prosecutor to pursue cases against his Democratic rival.

Besides charging her with criminal negligence for using a private server for official emails, the Trump campaign had also claimed that she used her position as secretary of state to solicit funds for her family’s foundation.

Trump’s campaign manager Kellyanne Conway said in an interview on MSNBC’s Morning Joe show on Tuesday that the president-elect now sees things differently.

“I think when the president-elect tells you before he’s even inaugurated that he doesn’t wish to pursue these charges, it sends a very strong message, tone and content” to fellow Republicans, she said.

“Look, I think he’s thinking of many different things as he prepares to become the president of the United States, and things that sound like the campaign are not among them,” she added.

*Cancels meeting with NYT, reverses decision*
Trump cancelled a meeting with reporters and editors from The New York Times, scheduled for Tuesday, only to reverse himself hours later.

“I cancelled today’s meeting with the failing @nytimes when the terms and conditions of the meeting were changed at the last moment. Not nice,” Trump tweeted early on Tuesday morning, the media reported.

“Perhaps a new meeting will be set up with the @nytimes. In the meantime they continue to cover me inaccurately and with a nasty tone!” he added in a second tweet minutes later.

He continued his tirade against the newspaper, writing that “the failing @nytimes just announced that complaints about them are at a 15 year high. I can fully understand that - but why announce?”

A Times spokeswoman told Politico, it learned of the meeting’s cancellation from Trump’s Twitter account on Tuesday morning.

She disputed Trump’s claim that the Times had attempted to change the terms of its meeting with the president-elect.

“We were unaware the meeting was cancelled until we saw the president-elect’s tweet this morning. We did not change the ground rules at all and made no attempt to,” Times spokeswoman Eileen Murphy said in a statement emailed to Politico.

Hope Hicks, Trump spokesperson, told reporters at Trump Tower the meeting was back on. “Mr. Trump’s staff has told us that the President Elect’s meeting with The Times is on again,” Murphy of the Times confirmed.

“He will meet with our publisher off-the-record and that session will be followed by an on-the-record meeting with our journalists and editorial columnists.”

_Published in Dawn, November 23rd, 2016_


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## Darmashkian

Guys read this excellent article on Gen. Flynn by a pro-HRC outlet
http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...flynn-became-americas-angriest-general-214362

Retired four-star General Barry McCaffrey is a Vietnam veteran and one of the most decorated officers of his generation. He is also among the prominent retired officers who have taken a public “Never Trump” stand, arguing in an op-ed that the New York developer is “a willful and abusive braggart” who is “remarkably ignorant and uneducated about the world we face and the means we may use to defend ourselves.” And yet when asked about the controversy surrounding Flynn’s support of Trump, McCaffrey can relate.

“_*Mike Flynn is the best intelligence officer of his generation, and he and Stan McChrystal are the principle reason we have not suffered a half-dozen 9/11-type attacks since 2001,*” he wrote in an email to the author. “Mike has an informed viewpoint, he’s honest and brutally frank, and he’s given a huge chunk of his life to this war against terrorists that has claimed tens of thousands of U.S. killed and wounded. That makes it very personal to senior war fighters like Flynn. *Mostly the Obama team has been cautious and sensible on national security, but they ignored Flynn’s input on the nature of the threat because it stepped on their narrative, and he got fired.* Now Mike is filled with anger. I find the situation very sad_.”

@T-72 This fits my opinion of Gen. Flynn.

He understands how Religious Extremism works & how it can warp your mind!(know your enemy & yourself & you can win any battle-Sun Tzu). He has his personal flaws,but he knows how to deal with Islamic Terrorist groups.

But his entire view is limited to Islamism,the fact is ISIS isn't the only problem with the USA. Russia,China & many such problems exist & we don't know his view towards them. To make matter worse for the USA ,he is suspected to be pro-Russia.

He is very passionate about his work,too passionate due to which he frequently got into fights with others(like the White House).

Now he is angry with the Left-liberal establishment & has enmity with too many generals & top ranking military leaders & that's where people are concerned where he allows his emotions to get in the way! That's why many people are very concerned about him. H

And he may be personally capable,but a NSA must also guide the president on complex long-term and short-term security issues.* He or she must also control the national-security bureaucracy to present the president with good options at short notice*. And Flynn is far from known to be patient or understanding when dealing with the bureaucrats. Infact a NSA spends a lot of time with them

Read these articles too:-

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/442350/mike-flynn-wrong-pick-national-security-adviser 

http://www.newsweek.com/michael-rubin-general-flynn-must-explain-himself-523911


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## T-72

Darmashkian said:


> @T-72 This fits my opinion of Gen. Flynn. He is very smart & capable,he knows how to get the job done.
> 
> He understands how Religious Extremism works & how it can warp your mind!(know your enemy & yourself & you can win any battle-Sun Tzu). He has his personal flaws,but he knows how to deal with Islamic Terrorist groups.
> 
> The fact is the White House thought it was smarter & knew better and did what any left-liberal does.. getting rid of opposite mindsets & viewpoints which disagree on even 1 point with it.
> 
> But his entire view is limited to Islamism,the fact is ISIS isn't the only problem with the USA. Russia,China & many such problems exist & we don't know his view towards them. To make matter worse for the USA ,he is suspected to be pro-Russia.
> 
> He is very passionate about his work,too passionate due to which he frequently got into fights with others(like the White House).
> 
> Now he is angry with the Left-liberal establishment & has enmity with too many generals & top ranking military leaders & that's where people are concerned where he allows his emotions to get in the way! That's why many people are very concerned about him


His most reassuring pick so far, it's great that a man like Flynn will have President Trump's ears on matters related to jihadi terror. "pro Russia" is nonsense, he's pro detente and rapprochement like any common sense person would be, only crooked Hillary's gang of terror sympathizing neocon thugs and insane liberals who were editing out all references to religion in their training manuals have a problem with him.

tremendous credentials, and we wont possibly ever even know of 99% of his achievements, it's foolish to try and question the mans loyalty to his country. On the US' problems with Russia and China, why would he make any public statements on strategic issues ? terror networks are a different kind of threat, one that the whole world (except possibly "saudi" arabia and co) should unite against.


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## Darmashkian

H


T-72 said:


> His most reassuring pick so far, it's great that a man like Flynn will have President Trump's ears on matters related to jihadi terror. "pro Russia" is nonsense, he's pro detente and rapprochement like any common sense person would be, only crooked Hillary's gang of terror sympathizing neocon thugs and insane liberals who were editing out all references to religion in their training manuals have a problem with him.
> 
> tremendous credentials, and we wont possibly ever even know of 99% of his achievements, it's foolish to try and question the mans loyalty to his country. On the US' problems with Russia and China, why would he make any public statements on strategic issues ? terror networks are a different kind of threat, one that the whole world (except possibly "saudi" arabia and co) should unite against.


have you read the articles I posted... read them

Regarding pro-Russia,then why was he a panelist of Russia Today which is a govt. outlet?He even sat on the same table with Putin. 

US problem with Russia is because of Russia's expansionist mindset (which is natural taking their geography & mindset into consideration) which US seeks to prevent

Add to that he allows his emotions to get in the way+is arrogant. The NSA has to deal with the bureaucrats as much as he has to with the Military.

He would make a good choice for some post/command/single issue advisor,but not the NSA.

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## T-72

Darmashkian said:


> H
> 
> have you read the articles I posted... read them
> 
> Regarding pro-Russia,then why was he a panelist of Russia Today which is a govt. outlet?He even sat on the same table with Putin.
> 
> US problem with Russia is because of Russia's expansionist mindset (which is natural taking their geography & mindset into consideration) which US seeks to prevent


I did, he's tough as nails, a battle hardened warrior, and not a diplomat. 

Russia isn't expansionist, NATO is. Annexing Crimea was strategic self preservation, or NATO would have swooped in and taken their only warm water port after the EU/US sponsored ultra nationalist coup in Ukraine. Georgia is also another old lingering conflict but there is no big threat to US allies in Europe or the Baltics from Russia, Putin isn't stupid enough to trigger an Article 5 response. Which leaves China, who actually are expansionist, and so far we haven't heard anything about a containment strategy in the SCS from anyone, not even their pundits on TV have had a word to say about how on earth the US is going to stop China.




Darmashkian said:


> Add to that he allows his emotions to get in the way+is arrogant. The NSA has to deal with the bureaucrats as much as he has to with the Military.
> 
> He would make a good choice for some post/command/single issue advisor,but not the NSA.


you're parroting a combination of liberal and neverTrump talking points now. 

remember what they all said about Trump and his temperament ? 

General Flynn is a great pick.

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## Darmashkian

T-72 said:


> I did, he's tough as nails, a battle hardened warrior, and not a diplomat.
> 
> Russia isn't expansionist, NATO is. Annexing Crimea was strategic self preservation, or NATO would have swooped in and taken their only warm water port after the EU/US sponsored ultra nationalist coup in Ukraine. Georgia is also another old lingering conflict but there is no big threat to US allies in Europe or the Baltics from Russia, Putin isn't stupid enough to trigger an Article 5 response. Which leaves China, who actually are expansionist, and so far we haven't heard anything about a containment strategy in the SCS from anyone, not even their pundits on TV have had a word to say about how on earth the US is going to stop China.
> 
> 
> 
> you're parroting a combination of liberal and neverTrump talking points now.
> 
> remember what they all said about Trump and his temperament ?
> 
> General Flynn is a great pick.


That's my point the NSA should not just be a warrior,he should be diplomatic!! That's how you get things done. Ajit Doval is both! Gen. Flynn will face a lot of people who disagree with him even now,he can't ram his way all the time!

NeverTrump guys were right on some of the stuff they said about his FP w.r.t the USA(TPP was meant to keep China out,Snowden helped Russian intel too much,Russia is not a friend of the USA ). TPP will hurt American workers,but will aid in American Foreign Policy in East Asia.
Libbies just wanted to stop him,I doubt they believed what they spouted about him.

Regarding Trump's temperament---> Even you have to admit he gets too impulsive & excited. Add to that tweeting at 4 AM about Alicia Machado does make one think,(whether she was wrong/right doesn't matter,the time of tweeting matters). And he is no grand strategist,he lives in the moment .

Though he does know how to make good choices regarding personnel who can help him in his larger plans/interests+he is recognizes good pragmatic deal makers like him.He knows his audience & how to play to them.His persuasion skills are also good.

He knows Flynn is good for dealing with ISIS which he sees as a threat,but not with Russia which he sees as an opportunity/friend(which from an American geo-politilcal POV(expansionist+non expansionist) is not right). He doesn't seem to know much about Russian geo-political mindset & their History.

& I am sorry to say, you are very wrong about the Baltics,they face a great threat from Russia taking recent events into consideration.Why else are their governments panicking now! Estonia & Lithuania of them have a significant pop. of ethnic Russians
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/28/europe/lithuania-war-manual/
https://www.neweurope.eu/article/lithuania-fears-putin-may-test-nato-resolve-trump-comes-office/
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38051155
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...t-trump-nato-latvia-estonia-lithuania-ukraine

Just check a geo-political map or Eurasia & then Russia's place in it.Have a look at Russian History too. Then you will know why they are so paranoid & determined+tough about their safety+nat sec.

They don't trust the americans(Rightly). who went expansionist first when they expanded NATO East due to which they are expansionist now to keep a large group of buffer states b/w them & the West..

Now I don't support HRC & her no fly zone. Nor do I advocate American foreign policy hawks.I don't agree with what NATO did in Ukraine & Russia was right there.
*But 2 wrongs make no right*
I just believe the Baltic nations have the right to remain what they are instead of being forced to be Russian.

There are people in the Baltic nations & Poland who are very scared of Russia & these nations are part of NATO. They don't wish to be part of Russia!! They don't want their culture & language subdued again as it was under the USSR

Russia won't invade them unless USA abandons them,the question is will Gen. Flynn & Trump do it? As of now,many fear yes.

It is one thing to have good relations & take down ISIS,it is another thing to abandon democratic allies for the sake of good relations .

+==============================================

& from an Indian POV,we need help in dealing with China. I really hope they don't leave East Asia to the Chinese..

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## Desert Fox

*Louisiana Muslim Student Charged for Trump Hate Crime Hoax*​




*LAFAYETTE, Louisiana – A Muslim student who reported her hijab was pulled from her head and was robbed by President-Elect Donald Trump supporters will now face charges for the false claims.*

The 18-year-old college student told police that white men shouting racial slurs at her drove up in a truck and struck her multiple times in the back, while also stealing her hijab and wallet.

Following the accusation, Lafayette police said there were no witnesses or surveillance footage to back up the story.

After the _New York Times, Times Picayune, Washington Post_ and _Huffington Post_ all ran with the woman’s claims, Lafayette police said the entire story was fabricated, as Breitbart Texas reported.

“During the course of the investigation, *the female complainant admitted that she fabricated the story about her physical attack as well as the removal of her hijab and wallet by two white males,”* Lafayette police said in a statement. “This incident is no longer under investigation by the Lafayette Police Department.”

Now, the Muslim student is being charged with filing a fake police report, as a Lafayette police spokesman confirmed to WWL-TV.

The police spokesman said the department would not be releasing the woman’s name, despite giving no reason as to why. The spokesman also said he did not have any information on the case.

Though the alleged hate crime has now been proven to be a hoax, it has not stopped the story from spreading across the mainstream media.

In an interview with CNN’s Anderson Cooper, Gold-Star family member Khizr Khan, who was used by the Hillary Clinton campaign to attack Trump on the issue of Islamic terrorism, trotted out the story as fact, referring to it at least once in the course of the segment.

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## T-72

Darmashkian said:


> That's my point the NSA should not just be a warrior,he should be diplomatic!! That's how you get things done. Ajit Doval is both! Gen. Flynn will face a lot of people who disagree with him even now,he can't ram his way all the time!


what if he isn't the mad man they're all making him out to be ? 

all we've seen of him is on the stump with Trump and a couple interviews with Mehdi Hasan, if he was that good in military intel, he should be ok for his new role.



Darmashkian said:


> tweeting at 4 AM about Alicia Machado


he was obviously up late planning his run, right ? 

the Alicia Machado thing was one of the weakest they threw at him, good example of a desperate crooked hillary campaign flailing in despair. "miss housekeeping, she likes to eat.." 








Darmashkian said:


> they are expansionist now to keep a large group of buffer states b/w them & the West..


what large group, the tiny enclave around Donetsk is all they have in Ukraine, and even there it looks like they're purging the separatist leadership (classic kgb/fsb style too).

Ukraine is very interesting now, Trump being anti EU/Globalist, he's said he'd rather make bilateral deals with countries, he is allied/friendly with the BREXIT people and Farage. The Trump admin will have a spot to replace Victoria Nuland with too. EU are dealing with growing euro-skepticism within the member countries, wonder how much of an appetite they have left for Ukraine, who knows, Putin and Trump might both fold their proxies and make a deal on Ukraine and Syria.

@vostok can shed some more light here.


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## vostok

T-72 said:


> what if he isn't the mad man they're all making him out to be ?
> 
> all we've seen of him is on the stump with Trump and a couple interviews with Mehdi Hasan, if he was that good in military intel, he should be ok for his new role.
> 
> 
> he was obviously up late planning his run, right ?
> 
> the Alicia Machado thing was one of the weakest they threw at him, good example of a desperate crooked hillary campaign flailing in despair. "miss housekeeping, she likes to eat.."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what large group, the tiny enclave around Donetsk is all they have in Ukraine, and even there it looks like they're purging the separatist leadership (classic kgb/fsb style too).
> 
> Ukraine is very interesting now, Trump being anti EU/Globalist, he's said he'd rather make bilateral deals with countries, he is allied/friendly with the BREXIT people and Farage. The Trump admin will have a spot to replace Victoria Nuland with too. EU are dealing with growing euro-skepticism within the member countries, wonder how much of an appetite they have left for Ukraine, who knows, Putin and Trump might both fold their proxies and make a deal on Ukraine and Syria.
> 
> @vostok can shed some more light here.


It is too early make forecasts.


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## T-72

vostok said:


> It is too early make forecasts.


true, but what the hell is going on with the separatists, big internal struggle or death by Putin ? Motorolla is gone, others are gone, I hope Givi makes it out alive, those guys had great spirit.


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## vostok

T-72 said:


> true, but what the hell is going on with the separatists, big internal struggle or death by Putin ? Motorolla is gone, others are gone, I hope Givi makes it out alive, those guys had great spirit.


Mozgovoi might be killed by internal forces, as he was 100% communist and a real threat for someone's economic interests. Everybody else are most likely work of mercenaries from the other side of the barricades.


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## ultron

Betsy DeVos is secretary of education


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## ultron

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/23/jill...unts-in-key-swing-states-where-trump-won.html


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## ultron

@500 @C130

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## cloud4000

Don't a recount will accomplish anything except to muddy the waters. Do the Democrats really want a replay of 2000 when the election was ultimately decided by the courts? The result doesn't change the fact the Democrats ran a slipshod campaign.


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## ultron

http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/23/donald-trump-wins-michigan-votes/94360852/


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## ultron

cloud4000 said:


> Don't a recount will accomplish anything except to muddy the waters. Do the Democrats really want a replay of 2000 when the election was ultimately decided by the courts? The result doesn't change the fact the Democrats ran a slipshod campaign.




Jill Stein is Green party, rival of Democrats.


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## Hamartia Antidote

ultron said:


> http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/23/jill...unts-in-key-swing-states-where-trump-won.html



It's a little late for her to have regrets about Trump. She probably stole more votes from Hillary than she did Trump. if she was that concerned she should have decided not to run...like Bloomberg.

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## ultron

Hamartia Antidote said:


> It's a little late for her to have regrets about Trump. She probably stole more votes from Hillary than she did Trump. if she was that concerned she should have decided not to run...like Bloomberg.




Green party only steals from Democrats, never from Republicans. Green party is an extremist version of Democrats.


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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> Damn, why did @Nilgiri get banned @WAJsal ?



I'm back now....not sure if I can talk about the reason for ban, but it was pretty funny (and surprised me lol).

Anyways I will be limiting my participation considerably since I am busy with other stuff though. Do continue to tag me wherever relevant though!

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## RabzonKhan

President Obama's last Thanksgiving message. 







*November 24, 2016*

Hi, everybody. On behalf of the Obama family - Michelle, Malia, Sasha, Grandma, Bo, and Sunny - I want to wish you a very happy Thanksgiving. Like so many of you, we'll spend the day with friends and family, turkey and touchdowns. We'll give thanks for each other, and for all that God has given us. And we'll reflect on what truly binds us as Americans.

*That's never been more important. As a country, we've just emerged from a noisy, passionate, and sometimes divisive campaign season. After all, elections are often where we emphasize what sets us apart. We face off in a contest of "us" versus "them." We focus on the candidate we support instead of some of the ideals we share. *

*But a few short weeks later, Thanksgiving reminds us that no matter our differences, we are still one people, part of something bigger than ourselves. We are communities that move forward together. We are neighbors who look out for one another, especially those among us with the least. We are always, simply, Americans.*

That's why, through the fog of Civil War, President Lincoln saw what mattered most - the unalienable truths for which so many gave their lives, and which made possible "a new birth of freedom." And so precisely when the fate of the Union hung in the balance, he boldly proclaimed a day of Thanksgiving, when the nation's gifts "should be solemnly, reverently, and gratefully acknowledged, as with one heart and one voice by the whole American people."

Today, we continue to give thanks for those blessings, and to all who ensured that they would be our inheritance. We remember the determined patriots who landed at the edge of the world in search of freedom. 
*We give thanks to the brave men and women who defend that freedom in every corner of the world. And we honor all people - from the First Americans to our newest arrivals - who continue to shape our nation's story, enrich our heritage, and give meaning to our founding values, values we must never take for granted. That in America, we are bound not by any one race or religion, but rather an adherence to a common belief - that all of us are created equal. That we may think, worship, and speak, and love as we please. That the gift of democracy is ours, and ours alone, to nurture and protect. * 

Never doubt, that is what makes us American - not where we come from, what we look like, or what faith we practice, but the ideals to which we pledge our allegiance. It's about our capacity to live up to the creed as old as our founding: "E Pluribus Unum" - that out of many, we are one. And as long as we continue to welcome the contributions of all people, as long as we stand up for each other, speak out for what is right, and stay true to these ideals - not just when it's easy, but when it's hard - then no one can ever take away our liberty. Our best days will always be ahead. And we will keep building a future where all of our children know the promise of America.

Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.

*


Happy Thanksgiving, everyone, and thank you all for participating in this thread.*

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> So a Jew and a Latino protestor got caught spray painting Swastikas and "Trump" on a Church, how wonderful  .These ShitLibs will sink to the lowest of levels to achieve their hateful agenda. This sudden explosion of so called "Trump supporters hate crimes" are fabrications and hoaxes being committed by the ShitLibs themselves. Not a single footage of any of these numerous alleged "Trump supporters hate crimes" are documented in video or eyewitness reports etc... On the other hand there's countless video footage, eyewitness accounts, and police reports of ShitLibs attacking Trump supporters, even killing them. When will the deranged Left disown it's own violent thugs? The Leftist establishment always demands Trump disown the Alt-Right (which has never attacked anyone and is peaceful, regardless of the movements political views), but why have they never demanded Hillary and the Democrats disown these leftist thugs who beat and kill people for their opposing views and burn down entire neighborhoods?
> 
> *Two Protestors Arrested Over Hateful Graffiti On Campus Chapel*​
> View attachment 355238
> 
> _*Anthony Morales*_
> 
> View attachment 355240
> 
> _*Matthew Kafker*_​
> 
> *Two Northwestern University freshmen were charged on Saturday with hate crimes and vandalism after admitting to spray-painting offensive symbols on the walls of a nondenominational campus chapel, the Chicago Tribune reported.*
> 
> Anthony Morales, 19 (at left), and Matthew Kafker (at right), 18, spent Saturday in jail and court, where they were reprimanded by Cook County Judge Peggy Chiampas. “These allegations are disgusting to me,” she said during their bond hearing. “I don’t know if any of you know how lucky you are to be at Northwestern University.”
> 
> Their bail was set at $50,000.
> 
> *Police said the students were filmed by security cameras breaking into the chapel on Friday night. The next day after which they appear to have spray-painted swastikas, pictures of genitals, racist slurs against African Americans and Muslims, homophobic slurs, and the word “Trump,” according to the Tribune.*
> 
> Both students admitted the vandalism in statements given to university police, the Tribune reported.
> 
> A university spokesman told the Daily Northwestern that the students have been placed on interim suspension, which bans them from campus, for what the University president denounced in an email to students on Friday evening as a “disgusting act of hatred.”
> 
> @T-72 @Nilgiri @boomslang @C130 @flamer84 @Vergennes @RabzonKhan @Mugwop



These are just pawns.

Sustained action has to be taken against Soros and co long term for there to be real deep consequences against all the real leeches behind the scenes and not just their brainwashed lowest minions.


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## RabzonKhan




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## Zibago

Jill Stein launches vote recount bid in key US states




Green party candidate says unexpected Trump wins in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania need to be investigated.
Stein polled little over one percent of the vote but a recount could swing the states over to Hillary Clinton [Reuters]
FAST FACTS

Stein calls for recount in three states that won Trump the presidency
Green party candidate has raised $3m of $7m needed to file recount application
Clinton won popular vote by 2.1m but defeat in states cost her 46 electoral votes and the presidency
Trump narrowly won the states, including Michigan by around 12,000 votes
US presidential candidate Jill Stein has launched an attempt to force recounts in three decisive states that won President-elect Donald Trump the November 8 election.

In a statement on her Twitter account on Wednesday evening, the Green Party leader said allegations of hacking by foreign states and voting anomalies made the results in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania unreliable.

"After a decisive and painful presidential race, in which foreign agents hacked in to party databases, private email servers, and voter databases in certain states, many Americans are wondering if our election results are reliable," Stein said.

"That's why the unexpected results of the election and reported anomalies need to be investigated before the 2016 presidential election is certified," she added.

The three states at the centre of the recount bid are traditional Democrat strongholds - yet, this time voters backed the Republican candidate.

Trump won by around 12,000 votes in Michigan, about 27,000 votes in Wisconsin, and roughly 68,000 votes in Pennsylvania.

Democrat challenger Hillary Clinton leads the popular vote by around 2.1 million ballots, but her defeat in the three states meant she lost out on their combined 46 electoral votes that would have secured her victory overall.

Stein has already raised $3m of the $7m needed to successfully file recount applications in the three states, at the time of publication.

Ballot box hacking

The possibility of electronic manipulation of ballots in some states was raised by the University of Michigan's J Alex Halderman.

In a blog post late on Wednesday , the professor of computer science described previous alleged attempts by hackers linked to the Russian intelligence services to change ballots in Ukraine. 

Halderman said the results of the election were "probably not" caused by a cyber attack, but added ballots should be scrutinised regardless.

"The only way to know whether a cyberattack changed the result is to closely examine the available physical evidence?- paper ballots and voting equipment in critical states like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania," Halderman wrote.

"Unfortunately, nobody is ever going to examine that evidence unless candidates in those states act now, in the next several days, to petition for recounts."

Stein has until Friday to file a recount petition in Wisconsin and until next week for the other two states.

Trump is due to take up office on January 20.


Clinton won the popular vote by 2.1 million ballots, but defeat in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, handed the presidency to Trump [EPA]
Source: Al Jazeera News
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/...e-recount-bid-key-states-161124151614787.html
Dhandli nahi dhandla ho gaya 
@django @Moonlight @The Sandman @The Eagle @PaklovesTurkiye @User

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## The Sandman

Zibago said:


> Jill Stein launches vote recount bid in key US states
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green party candidate says unexpected Trump wins in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania need to be investigated.
> Stein polled little over one percent of the vote but a recount could swing the states over to Hillary Clinton [Reuters]
> FAST FACTS
> 
> Stein calls for recount in three states that won Trump the presidency
> Green party candidate has raised $3m of $7m needed to file recount application
> Clinton won popular vote by 2.1m but defeat in states cost her 46 electoral votes and the presidency
> Trump narrowly won the states, including Michigan by around 12,000 votes
> US presidential candidate Jill Stein has launched an attempt to force recounts in three decisive states that won President-elect Donald Trump the November 8 election.
> 
> In a statement on her Twitter account on Wednesday evening, the Green Party leader said allegations of hacking by foreign states and voting anomalies made the results in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania unreliable.
> 
> "After a decisive and painful presidential race, in which foreign agents hacked in to party databases, private email servers, and voter databases in certain states, many Americans are wondering if our election results are reliable," Stein said.
> 
> "That's why the unexpected results of the election and reported anomalies need to be investigated before the 2016 presidential election is certified," she added.
> 
> The three states at the centre of the recount bid are traditional Democrat strongholds - yet, this time voters backed the Republican candidate.
> 
> Trump won by around 12,000 votes in Michigan, about 27,000 votes in Wisconsin, and roughly 68,000 votes in Pennsylvania.
> 
> Democrat challenger Hillary Clinton leads the popular vote by around 2.1 million ballots, but her defeat in the three states meant she lost out on their combined 46 electoral votes that would have secured her victory overall.
> 
> Stein has already raised $3m of the $7m needed to successfully file recount applications in the three states, at the time of publication.
> 
> Ballot box hacking
> 
> The possibility of electronic manipulation of ballots in some states was raised by the University of Michigan's J Alex Halderman.
> 
> In a blog post late on Wednesday , the professor of computer science described previous alleged attempts by hackers linked to the Russian intelligence services to change ballots in Ukraine.
> 
> Halderman said the results of the election were "probably not" caused by a cyber attack, but added ballots should be scrutinised regardless.
> 
> "The only way to know whether a cyberattack changed the result is to closely examine the available physical evidence?- paper ballots and voting equipment in critical states like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania," Halderman wrote.
> 
> "Unfortunately, nobody is ever going to examine that evidence unless candidates in those states act now, in the next several days, to petition for recounts."
> 
> Stein has until Friday to file a recount petition in Wisconsin and until next week for the other two states.
> 
> Trump is due to take up office on January 20.
> 
> 
> Clinton won the popular vote by 2.1 million ballots, but defeat in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, handed the presidency to Trump [EPA]
> Source: Al Jazeera News
> http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/...e-recount-bid-key-states-161124151614787.html
> Dhandli nahi dhandla ho gaya
> @django @Moonlight @The Sandman @The Eagle @PaklovesTurkiye @User


That's it time for a.....

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## WaLeEdK2

The Sandman said:


> That's it time for a.....



Hold on let me grab my popcorn

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## Zibago

The Sandman said:


> That's it time for a.....


Oye Trumpiya ye dhandli sey bani hakomat nahi chaley gi

Bill o Riely is like Salim Safi of US

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## war&peace

The recount won't change the make up of the congress to a larger extent so Trump is here to stay for the next four years.


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## The Eagle

But wait, it was our line not the worlds best and top democracy, the great system on earth and transparency at best that none have any doubt about the same yet copying what we the third world countries use to do.... That is actually a conspiracy theory against the greatest country and democracy.


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## XenoEnsi-14

The Sandman said:


> That's it time for a.....


Oh hell no!

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## Zibago

The Eagle said:


> But wait, it was our line not the worlds best and top democracy, the great system on earth and transparency at best that none have any doubt about the same yet copying what we the third world countries use to do.... That is actually a conspiracy theory against the greatest country and democracy.


Yahodi lobby in US equals Muslim Brotherhood
Geo =Fox
ARY=CNN
DPC=Alt right
Salim Safi =Bill o Reily
Cenk Uighyur=Hasan Nisar




XenoEnsi-14 said:


> Oh hell no!


Its dharna time

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## XenoEnsi-14

Zibago said:


> Its dharna time


We will deny them Wi-Fi. End of dharna.

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## Dragon Ball

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/802079619939729408

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## T-72



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## RabzonKhan

*More than 15,000 US lawyers sign letter asking Donald Trump to rescind appointment of Steve Bannon
*
'His contempt for our governmental institutions has no place in a crucial leadership position'

Thursday 24 November 2016






Steve Bannon has been accused of supporting white nationalist views Getty

Thousands of senior US lawyers have signed a letter asking President-elect Donald Trump to rescind his recent appointment of_ Breitbart News _chief Steve Bannon as head strategist for his transition team.

More than 15,000 attorneys and legal experts from across the United States have so far given their signatures to the letter penned by Professor Nancy Leong from the University of Denver law school, highlighting Mr Bannon’s “opposition to a stable, democratic form of government”.

It was circulated to all members of Congress, days after Mr Trump was forced to defend the appointment against widespread accusations Mr Bannon was a white nationalist with racist views, which he denies.

“We are attorneys whose political views span the ideological spectrum. We write to ask that you call upon President-elect Trump to rescind his appointment of Stephen Bannon as White House Chief Strategist,” the letter read.

“As attorneys, we swore an oath to uphold the Constitution. We committed to protect the institutions upon which our democracy depends. We committed to provide zealous representation for all our clients, regardless of their race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, or any other characteristic.

“Mr Bannon has demonstrated his opposition to the stable, democratic form of government that our profession embraces and strives to maintain…Mr Bannon has also enabled and promoted white supremacy.

“Mr Bannon has intentionally legitimised racism, anti-Semitism, and other hate-based ideologies. Such bigotry runs counter to the values enshrined in the Constitution we promised to defend.

“President-elect Trump has promised to be 'a President for all Americans'. The selection of Mr Bannon as a key advisor communicates exactly the opposite.”

“Many of the signatories to the letter self-identify as conservative or libertarian,” Professor Leong told _Huffington Post_. “Opposing the appointment of someone who has enabled white nationalism and other hate-based ideologies is not a partisan issue.”

As the executive chairman of _Breitbart News_, Mr Bannon has referred to the website as “the platform for the alt-right” and praised the group as a “populist, nationalist movement” of “right, young people, young activists”. 

In an interview with the _New York Times_, Mr Trump defended the decision and said he had known Mr Bannon “for a long time”. He confirmed he would not have considered hiring him “if I thought he was a racist”.





*Read the letter to Congress members in full below*

Dear members of Congress,

We are attorneys whose political views span the ideological spectrum. We write to ask that you call upon President-elect Trump to rescind his appointment of Stephen Bannon as White House Chief Strategist.

*As attorneys, we swore an oath to uphold the Constitution. We committed to protect the institutions upon which our democracy depends. We committed to provide zealous representation for all our clients, regardless of their race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, or any other characteristic.*

*Mr Bannon has demonstrated his opposition to the stable, democratic form of government that our profession embraces and strives to maintain. His words could not be more clear: 'Lenin wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal, too . . . I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment'. His contempt for our longstanding governmental institutions has no place in a crucial leadership position.*

*Mr Bannon has also enabled and promoted white supremacy. Under his leadership, Breitbart News has become what Mr Bannon himself describes as "a platform for the alt-right" - another term for white nationalism. Through Breitbart, Mr Bannon has intentionally legitimised racism, anti-Semitism, and other hate-based ideologies. Such bigotry runs counter to the values enshrined in the Constitution we promised to defend. Indeed, it threatens democracy itself by undermining the equality of all citizens.*

Of course we do not dispute that Mr Bannon has the right to voice his opinions. Indeed, some of us have devoted our careers to safeguarding a robust First Amendment that protects individuals, the media, and other organisations. But these extreme and hateful views do not belong in the White House.

This is not a partisan issue. The white supremacy and political insurgency that Mr Bannon has embraced and amplified contradicts everything we stand for as attorneys and as Americans.

*President-elect Trump has promised to be "a president for all Americans." The selection of Mr Bannon as a key adviser communicates exactly the opposite.* We call upon you to take all possible measures to ensure that Mr Trump rescinds his appointment of Mr Bannon. *Link*






Please sign the petition, let's try to stop this racist and keep him out of the White House.

*Steve Bannon's racist, anti-semitic, misogynistic views don't belong in the White House*

*Share this petition: Link*

President-elect Donald Trump has just appointed his campaign CEO and chairman of Breitbart News, Stephen Bannon, as chief White House strategist and senior counselor. Trump’s team said the position will be equal to the Chief of Staff -- making Steve Bannon one of the most powerful and influential people in the world. 

The appointment has drawn outrage from all sides of the political spectrum. Under Bannon’s leadership, Breitbart News has become the online destination for white nationalism, anti semitism, xenophobia, sexism, the spreading of lies and conspiracy theories, and hateful rhetoric.

Steve Bannon himself has been accused of horrible behavior. He referred to feminists as “a bunch of dykes” and reportedly didn’t want his children to go to school with “a bunch of jews.” Former employee Ben Shapiro left Breitbart News because he said Bannon was a “vindictive, nasty figure.”

Bannon’s abuse has even turned physical. In 1996, he was arrested for domestic violence. His ex-wife feared for their children, and reported Bannon threatened her and the kids if she appeared in court against him. She believed him and didn’t want to put her children in more danger. Bannon’s ex wife didn’t appear and the charges were dropped.

President-elect Trump can do better. Our country has a deep well of talent to help him lead our country. There is no reason to select a figure like Steve Bannon. Bannon's vitriol and divisiveness have no place in the White House. Please sign if you agree that this is NOT the person who should have the ear of the president.

Thank you.


Please sign the petition, let's try to stop this racist and keep him out of the White House.

@LA se Karachi @Desertfalcon @F-22Raptor @gambit @anon45 @Anubis @Moonlight @*Syed.Ali.Haider @TruthSeeker @Hamartia Antidote *

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## SALMAN F

Trump is the president get over with it 
muslims have to leave or assilimate or pay jizya to stay and live there


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## ultron

RabzonKhan said:


> reportedly didn’t want his children to go to school with “a bunch of jews.”




Reportedly is code word for fake. Breitbart is the most pro Jewish website out there.

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## Devil Soul

*Trump election: Request for Wisconsin vote recount sent*


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## Desert Fox

Devil Soul said:


> *Trump election: Request for Wisconsin vote recount sent*



Request denied  

These LibShits were the same people who kept demanding reassurances from Trump that he will peacefully accept the election results and tell his supporters to not riot. And yet they are rioting and burning down neighborhoods and asking for a recount.

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## Desert Fox

The ShitLibs project their own filth onto others.

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## RabzonKhan

Some interesting development.

*
Wisconsin to hold statewide recount of votes for president*
NOVEMBER 26,2016

The Wisconsin Elections Commission on Nov. 25 received two recount petitions from the Jill Stein for President Campaign and from Rocky Roque De La Fuente.

“The commission is preparing to move forward with a statewide recount of votes for president of the United States, as requested by these candidates,” WEC Administrator Michael Haas announced.

He continued, “We have assembled an internal team to direct the recount, we have been in close consultation with our county clerk partners, and have arranged for legal representation by the Wisconsin Department of Justice,.

“We plan to hold a teleconference meeting for county clerks next week and anticipate the recount will begin late in the week after the Stein campaign has paid the recount fee, which we are still calculating.”


The last statewide recount was of the Supreme Court election in 2011.

The state is working under a federal deadline of Dec. 13 to complete the recount.

As a result, county boards of canvassers may need to work evenings and weekends to meet the deadlines, according to a news release from the department.

Haas said, “The recount process is very detail-oriented, and this deadline will certainly challenge some counties to finish on time.”

A recount is different than an audit and is more rigorous.

More than 100 reporting units across the state were randomly selected for a separate audit of their voting equipment as required by state law, and that process has already begun.

Electronic voting equipment audits determine whether all properly-marked ballots are accurately tabulated by the equipment.

In a recount, all ballots — including those that were originally hand counted — are examined to determine voter intent before being retabulated.

In addition, the county boards of canvassers will examine other documents, including poll lists, written absentee applications, rejected absentee ballots, and provisional ballots before counting the votes.

Haas said the commission’s role is to order the recount, to provide legal guidance to the counties during the recount and to certify the results.

If the candidates disagree with the results of the recount, the law gives them the right to appeal in circuit court within five business days after the recount is completed.

The circuit court is where issues are resolved that may be discovered during the recount but are not resolved to the satisfaction of the candidates.

“Wisconsin has the most decentralized election system in the United States,” Haas said in his statement. *Link*


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## ultron

Any significant discrepancies from these = election fraud.

Wisconsin

Donald 0.49 * 0.54 + 0.51 * 0.43 = 48.39%

Hillary 0.49 * 0.40 + 0.51 * 0.53 = 46.63%

http://www.cnn.com/election/results/states/wisconsin#president

Pennsylvania

Donald 0.47 * 0.57 + 0.53 * 0.42 = 49.05%

Hillary 0.47 * 0.40 + 0.53 * 0.55 = 47.95%

http://www.cnn.com/election/results/states/pennsylvania#president

Michigan

Donald 0.48 * 0.53 + 0.52 * 0.42 = 47.28%

Hillary 0.48 * 0.41 + 0.52 * 0.53 = 47.24%

http://www.cnn.com/election/results/states/michigan#president


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## ultron

@500 @C130


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I think since Hilary won by whopping 2 Million Votes she should be allowed to transfer some votes to areas where she could have won only fair

She lost few areas by like 8,000-10,000 votes 

While she has 2,000,000 Million over all advantage (yet lost 30 electoral votes) ? Makes no sense
joke election


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## RabzonKhan

*




*


*8 New Reasons The Electoral College Shouldn’t Vote For Trump
*
David Halperin Attorney, advocate, writer 
11/26/2016

Soon after the election, I was one of those arguing that Republican electors should vote for someone other than Donald Trump when the electoral college convenes on December 19. My contention was simply that Trump is fundamentally unfit to be president. Many Republicans declared Trump unfit during the 2016 campaign, and Trump has a disturbing record of bigotry, misogyny and sexual abuse, dishonesty, predatory business practices, association with organized crime figures, and misuse of charitable entities. He also has advocated for torture, bombing civilians, and other reckless acts that no conscientious military officer could carry out.

*Since he declared victory, however, Trump’s own actions have made the case for dumping Trump much, much stronger. I still seriously doubt enough electors will do the right thing and deny Trump the 270 electoral votes he needs. But if they care about our country and its values, they must not vote for Trump.*

Here are the reasons why:

*8. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by nearly two million votes.*

This is by far the weakest of the eight reasons because, as Trump has rightly pointed out, the contest every four years, including this year, is to win the electoral vote, not the popular vote, and Trump might have pursued a different strategy if it were otherwise. But Hillary Clinton’s big, expanding margin in the popular vote reduces the moral force of any argument that electors must somehow consider themselves bound to vote for Trump. They are not bound because —

*7. The electoral college system created by the Framers did not prohibit electors from voting their own conscience. *

With Trump and his supporters hammering the point that the electoral college system is the relevant competition, they cannot escape that the system has two pieces — voting in the states and, later, the gathering of electors in their state capitals. In explaining a system that includes individual electors casting their own ballots, *Alexander Hamilton in the Federalist Papers warned of the risks of inaugurating a president with”[t]alents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity.” Hamilton argued for the electoral college system in these terms: “The process of election affords a moral certainty, that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.” The electors have not just a right, but an obligation, not to vote for a candidate lacking such qualifications.*

*Under our system, the electors may vote for anyone they want, whether they were on the November ballot or not. Some states impose penalties, mostly light penalties, on so-called faithless electors, but many states do not. (Congress, which must approve the electoral college results, is bound by the Constitution to consider only individuals who have received one or more votes from the electors.)*

*6. The Trump University settlement shines a new spotlight on Trump’s unethical business practices.*

*Trump insisted throughout the campaign that the lawsuits brought by students and by New York state against his unaccredited real estate school were worthless and would fail before a jury. Then, with the presiding federal judge — whom Trump had said was biased because he was “a Mexican” — holding to a November 28 trial date, Trump paid $25 million to settle the matters.*

In truth, the evidence was strong that Trump University was a predatory operation that, for starters, told prospective students that all instructors were hand-picked by Trump, when they were not. Trump University used high-pressure tactics to sell overpriced seminars. One of Trump University’s own sales managers testified, “I believe that Trump University was a fraudulent scheme, and that it preyed upon the elderly and uneducated to separate them from their money.” A trial would have exposed all these abuses for the world to see, which gave Trump a good reason to settle.

Since the election, even more reports have emerged of dishonest business practices by Trump, such as a golf club he built in Scotland: As described Friday by the _New York Times, _Trump promised the village of Balmedie that he would build “the world’s greatest golf course,” then “proceeded to lash out at anyone standing in his way,” and overcame objections about environmental harm with a series of “grand promises,” all of which he eventually broke: “A promised $1.25 billion investment has shrunk to what his opponents say is at most $50 million. Six thousand jobs have dwindled to 95. Two golf courses to one. An eight-story, 450-room luxury hotel never materialized, nor did 950 time-share apartments. Instead, an existing manor house was converted into a 16-room boutique hotel.”

The heavy dossier of examples of shady Trump business ventures, from the multilevel marketing schemes ACN and The Trump Network, to his mountain of unpaid bills to contractors, has just been capped by a $25 million payment to thousands of students over allegations of fraud at Trump’s “university.” The electors need to consider whether it could ever be responsible to hand over control of our government to such an individual.

*5. Trump has demonstrated a complete lack of trustworthiness by immediately abandoning campaign promises*.

In post-election interviews with “60 Minutes“ and the _New York Times_, Trump suggested he would back away from many of the hard-right promises he made in the campaign, promises that created red meat excitement at his rallies and drove highly conservative voters to the polls: promises to build a wall all across the Mexican border, to ban Muslims from coming to the U.S., to eliminate Obamacare, to hire a special prosecutor to go after Hillary Clinton, to waterboard suspects, to withdraw from the Paris climate accords, and to change the libel laws. Many people, including me, oppose those policies and would be relieved if Trump abandoned them. But his apparent willingness to break all these promises to his supporters as soon as the election is over demonstrates, once again, that Trump’s word is worthless.

*Trump also immediately undermined his popular pledge to “drain the swamp” in Washington — his promise to clean up the corruption and restore power to people — by loading up his transition team with corporate lobbyists. Trump subsequently announced the lobbyists would be removed, but then put his inauguration up for sale, permitting corporations and rich individuals to write big checks to pay for the celebration.*

Campaign promises get broken all the time, but not this many, this soon, with so little concern for the people who believed them. Electors must again consider whether a person so lacking in honesty and integrity should be our president.

*4. Trump has appointed to top White House jobs people with disturbing records of bigotry*.

This is where things get ugly. Two of Trump’s three White House appointments so far, for positions at the center of decision-making for our country in a Trump administration, are associated with angry expressions of racial and religious bigotry.

*Trump has named his campaign CEO Stephen Bannon to be White House chief strategist and senior adviser. Until August, Bannon was executive chairman of Breitbart News, which Bannon called this summer “the platform for the alt-right,” a term that seems to define people who believe in white supremacy, deride women’s rights, condemn Islam, harass Jews with vicious insults, and hold other extremists views.* Breitbart headlines have included: “Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy” and “Bill Kristol: Republican Spoiler, Renegade Jew.” Bannon’s ex-wife filed a declaration in 2007 court proceedings alleging that Bannon opposed sending the couples’ daughters to an elite Los Angeles private school because many of the students there were Jewish: “He said that he doesn’t like the way they raise their kids to be ‘whiny brats’ and that he didn’t want the girls going to school with Jews.” Bannon has denied making that statement, or that, as his ex-wife claimed, at another school, he “asked the director why there were so many Chanukah books in the library.”

*Trump’s pick to be White House national security advisor, the person in charge of coordinating the nation’s security policies, has his own issues demonizing an entire religion, one with 1.6 billion adherents worldwide. Army Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn has called Islam “a cancer,” tweeted a link to a YouTube video entitled, “Fear of Muslims is RATIONAL,” and tweeted a “dare” to Muslim world leaders to “declare their Islamic ideology sick.”*

*Meanwhile, Trump’s designated Secretary of Education, Betsy DeVos, daughter-in-law of the billionaire founder of Amway, has provided major funding for efforts to oppose LGBT rights — a troubling record for someone who would oversee policies related to America’s schools.*

Trump did not need to fill so many of his earliest appointments, for core senior jobs, with people who have records of promoting bigotry against millions of Americans. Electors should consider the dangers to our nation of selecting a president who would install such a divisive senior team.

*3. Trump has failed to disavow racism, bigotry, threats and violence by his supporters.*

In the days and weeks after the election, there have been reports across the country of Trump supporters carrying out vicious attacks against people of color, women, immigrants, and others in “celebration” of Trump’s apparent victory. Trump, while complaining right after the election about anti-Trump protests as “very unfair,” said nothing at all about the violence and abuse in his name until pressed during an interview with “60 Minutes” to disavow the hateful acts by his supporters. Even then, Trump claimed he knew nothing about the widely-reported incidents and wanly went through the motions, saying, “I would say don’t do it, that’s terrible, ‘cause I’m gonna bring this country together.... I am so saddened to hear that. And I say, “Stop it.” If it— if it helps. I will say this, and I will say right to the cameras: Stop it.”

Days later, a white nationalist group, the National Policy Institute, held a Washington gathering full of white supremacy rhetoric, anti-semitic suggestions, and Nazi-era salutes, with a centerpiece speech in which the group’s leader toasted, “Hail Trump! Hail our people!” and finally, “Hail victory!” - which in German translates to the Nazi cheer “Sieg Heil!” Again Trump said nothing, until pressed in the _New York Times_ interview, at which point he offered this lukewarm statement: “It’s not a group I want to energize, and if they are energized I want to look into it and find out why.”

In neither case has Trump issued his own statement, or even tweet, condemning or disavowing the parade of hate in his name. Instead, he has tweeted complaints about the media, “Saturday Night Live,” and the cast of the broadway musical “Hamilton.” This studied indifference to the hate and violence by his supporters is one more reason for electors to refrain from voting for Donald Trump.

*2. Russian covert action influenced the election*.

*While evidence of vote-tampering in this election is intriguing but far from conclusive, there is extensive evidence, most recently detailed in a Washington Post story, that operations emanating from Russia were aimed at influencing, and did influence voters — through fake news stories attacking Hillary Clinton, pushed by paid live trolls, phony social media accounts, and networks of automated botnets. These efforts, according to the Post, “portrayed Clinton as a criminal hiding potentially fatal health problems and preparing to hand control of the nation to a shadowy cabal of global financiers. The effort also sought to heighten the appearance of international tensions and promote fear of looming hostilities with nuclear-armed Russia.” The Russian disinformation machine is also linked to promotion of the false story that a protester was paid thousands of dollars to demonstrate at Trump rallies, a claim the Trump campaign later echoed. (More anti-Clinton fake news was generated by Trump associates, as Lee Fang reports today.)*

Russian hacking also led to the publication of troves of emails from top Democratic officials that became fodder for a range of attacks on Clinton. Last month, the U.S. government, in a statement by director of national intelligence James Clapper and the Department of Homeland Security, said of hacks into the Democratic National Committee, “We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia’s senior-most officials could have authorized these activities.” The statement added that the Russian hacks “are intended to interfere with the U.S. election process.” The Clinton campaign and security experts also linked Russia to the hack of the emails of Clinton campaign chair John Podesta; the Wikileaks founder Julian Assange denied that Russia was involved — in an interview aired on the RT Russian television network.

Although Russia has denied interfering in the election, the Vladimir Putin-controlled Russian media made clear their preference for Trump throughout the general election campaign. Trump has repeatedly expressed his admiration for Putin.

Although we can’t know for certain whether Russian influence helped tip the election to Trump, it’s one more factor that should give GOP electors pause in deciding whether they really owe their allegiance to Trump, or whether allegiance to country should push them to vote for a different candidate.

*1. Trump has made clear he will use the presidency to enrich himself, risking the corruption of our democracy. *

*Finally, and disturbingly, since the election Donald Trump has repeatedly mixed his new role as the incoming U.S. head of state with efforts to advance and promote his businesses. If Trump continued such a course as president, it would fundamentally compromise the integrity of our government, with a president seeking leverage for his corporations in his dealings with foreign governments. *Unfortunately, all indications are that Trump has no intention of holding himself to any meaningful standards of integrity in office.

*In post-election meetings and calls with foreign leaders and nationals, Trump has pushed his business interests. When Trump met with a group of British politicians he pressed them to oppose the kind of offshore wind farms that Trump believes will block the the view of one of his Scottish golf courses and that he had unsuccessfully sued to prevent. Trump admitted he “might have” raised the wind farm issue with the British delegation.*

Trump also, according to one report, mentioned on a congratulatory call with Argentina’s president, Mauricio Macri, the subject of pending permits for a Trump high-rise building in Buenos Aires. Trump denied the allegation, although there was other reporting that Trump’s daughter Ivanka, a top executive in his Trump Organization, also spoke with Macri, and the next day the Trumps’ Argentine business partner announced the project was moving ahead.

Trump also included Ivanka Trump in a meeting with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe; afterward her jewelry business publicist reached out to reporters to highlight a $10,800 bracelet Ivanka had worn on “60 Minutes.”

*Trump had a post-election meeting with his Indian partners in for a new Trump Towers in Pune, India, a meeting about which Robert S. Stern, a lawyer with expertise in government ethics said, “It already looks like he is using his position as president-elect to promote something in India that would benefit him financially.... It is not presidential — or at least presidential before him.” Pranav R. Bhakta, a former consultant to Trump in India, helpfully told the New York Times that the marketing tie-in was irresistible: “To say, ‘I have a Trump flat or residence’ — it’s president-elect branded.” The Indian partners tweeted out smiling pictures of their meeting with Trump.*

*The Washington Post reported that the week after the election Trump’s new hotel in Washington invited “about 100 foreign diplomats, from Brazil to Turkey... to sip Trump-branded champagne, dine on sliders and hear a sales pitch about the U.S. president-elect’s newest hotel.”*

*Trump has said that Ivanka Trump and his two adult sons will run his business while Trump runs America. But top White House ethics lawyers for both President Obama and President George W. Bush have said the electoral college should reject Trump unless he sells his business and puts his wealth in a blind trust — because otherwise his presidency will be on a collision course with the Constitution.*

Article 1, Section 9 of the Constitution prohibits U.S. office holders from accepting “any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.” Former Obama White House lawyer Norm Eisen explained to _ThinkProgress _that “the founders did not want any foreign payments to the president. Period.” Room rental fees by foreign governments to the Trump hotel in Washington, or any other Trump hotel, would constitute such payments. Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe told _ThinkProgress _that violation of this constitutional provision “would qualify as one of the ‘high Crimes and Misdemeanors’ that would require Trump to be ‘removed from Office.’”

In other words, from a constitutional perspective, the Trump presidency would be dead on arrival.

Richard Painter, the chief ethics lawyer in the George W. Bush White House, offered a similar view of Trump’s stance in an appearance on CNN: “I don’t think the electoral college can vote for someone to become president if he’s going to be in violation of the Constitution on day one and hasn’t assured us he’s not in violation.”

Trump insisted in his _New York Times_ interview that “I don’t want there to be a conflict of interest.” But he asserted the position that “the law is totally on my side, meaning, the president can’t have a conflict of interest” and opined that “in theory I could run my business perfectly, and then run the country perfectly.”

Every signal Trump has given since the election, through his actions, suggests he will not hold himself to any meaningful ethical standard to protect against him using his office, and distorting our national interest, to increase his family’s wealth.

*We as Americans can use the very procedures built into our constitutional system to avoid the inauguration of a man who has proven since election day that is he unfit to be president of the United States.*

The world has seen kleptocratic leaders who amassed vast fortunes while in office, from Marcos in the Philippines to Mobuto in the Congo to Milosevic in Serbia. We have seen leaders who pressured the media to report favorably on their governments, today including Putin in Russia and Erdogan in Turkey. We have seen leaders who trade in ethnic and religious hatreds, and who stand by and allow violent supporters to attack critics of their regimes. And we have seen countries have their elections and societies influenced by foreign powers. But we haven’t generally wanted these things for our government and our country, and we — Republicans, Democrats, and others — have often been strong enough to reject such forces through our democratic processes. That record is now threatened by the impending inauguration of Donald Trump.

Despite these concerns, it’s obviously still unlikely that a sufficient number of GOP electors, if any, will vote for someone other than Trump. There’s certainly a good argument that to avoid chaos, we should generally pick the winner, and move ahead, soon after the presidential election, or these things could be fought out in all manner of forums, from courtrooms to city streets, indefinitely. Certainly President Obama has seemed ready to move on since election night.

*A handful of Democratic electors now say they might vote for someone besides Clinton, perhaps a Republican like Ohio governor John Kasich, as they lobby Republican electors to do the same, but it’s unclear if they’re getting any traction. Even if a miracle occurred and enough electors came together to deny Trump 270 votes, the matter would go to Congress, whose GOP leaders now seem to have fallen in love with the man so many of them were running away from just weeks ago; Congress might well hand the election to Trump anyway. But electors could still do their job, vote their consciences, and force Congress to make the decision about whether to install Trump.*

*In any case, I’m not arguing what’s likely. I’m arguing that we are not powerless. We as Americans can use the very procedures built into our constitutional system to avoid an unprecedented risk to the integrity and safety of our country, to avoiding the inauguration of a man who has proven since election day, if there were any doubt before, that is he unfit to be president of the United States.* *Link*


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## Nair saab

Trump is the President of USA now get over it...

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## T-72

RabzonKhan said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> *The Huffington post says.. *




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/240462265680289792

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## Peaceful Civilian

Trump will remain president, 10 electoral votes will not impact anything.
Trump is safe


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## ultron

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> I think since Hilary won by whopping 2 Million Votes she should be allowed to transfer some votes to areas where she could have won only fair
> 
> She lost few areas by like 8,000-10,000 votes
> 
> While she has 2,000,000 Million over all advantage (yet lost 30 electoral votes) ? Makes no sense
> joke election




Millions of her votes are illegal Mexican votes. After Trump deports them, future elections will be fair.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Only Native indian Tribe vote count anyways , who own the whole land


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## RabzonKhan

T-72 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/240462265680289792


lol, maybe you did not notice, but she did not write the article.


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## ultron

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Only Native indian Tribe vote count anyways , who own the whole land




Native American tribes killed each other. They didn't have a nation. They didn't have civilization. The White man brought peace and prosperity to North America.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

white power, Hail Trump



Nair saab said:


> Trump is the President of USA now get over it...


 
Your country banned defence.pk please respect the wishes of your Modi ji


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## ultron

Heil Trump! Heil Fascism!


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## T-72

RabzonKhan said:


> lol, maybe you did not notice, but she did not write the article.


everyone knows which way they lean, they actually covered the Trump campaign in their entertainment section during the early days. 

but guess what, turns out the joke was always on her.  

you can't possibly get more discredited than this, why even bother posting huffpost liberalol bs now 

the American people have spoken, DJT will be no 45, and unless you're ISIS, al qaeda or any other saudi sponsored terror group such as the FSA, nobody has any reason to worry.

you could watch TYT Politics with Jordan and Emma to get accurate no spin hate on Trump if you want, time to flush CNN, NYT, Huffpost and the rest of them down the toilet.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Where is my big truck need to go hunting to build wall


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## KAL-EL

Jill Stein has raised an incredible amount of money in a relatively short amount of time. I wonder where most of it is really all going to go in the end?

Or to be more specific, whose pockets it will line?

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## cloud4000

KAL-EL said:


> Jill Stein has raised an incredible amount of money in a relatively short amount of time. I wonder where most of it is really all going to go in the end?
> 
> Or to be more specific, whose pockets it will line?



Obviously her pocket -- or, more specifically, her party's pockets. No doubt in my mind Clinton folks are behind this. They want the air of deniability by using Stein as their cat's paw. Green Party people are insane anyway. Nothing will happen if the recount is a failure.

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## ultron

heavy.com says Hillary won Florida, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, North Carolina exit poll numbers. My calculations confirm Trump won Florida, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, North Carolina exit poll numbers.

http://heavy.com/news/2016/11/2016-...lection-voter-fraud-donald-trump-lose-rigged/

Florida

Donald 0.47 * 0.52 + 0.53 * 0.46 = 48.82%

Hillary 0.47 * 0.43 + 0.53 * 0.50 = 46.71%

http://www.cnn.com/election/results/states/florida#president

Wisconsin

Donald 0.49 * 0.54 + 0.51 * 0.43 = 48.39%

Hillary 0.49 * 0.40 + 0.51 * 0.53 = 46.63%

http://www.cnn.com/election/results/states/wisconsin#president

Pennsylvania

Donald 0.47 * 0.57 + 0.53 * 0.42 = 49.05%

Hillary 0.47 * 0.40 + 0.53 * 0.55 = 47.95%

http://www.cnn.com/election/results/states/pennsylvania#president

North Carolina

Donald 0.46 * 0.56 + 0.54 * 0.45 = 50.06%

Hillary 0.46 * 0.38 + 0.54 * 0.52 = 45.56%

http://www.cnn.com/election/results/states/north-carolina#president


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## ultron

@500 @C130


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## Nilgiri

KAL-EL said:


> Jill Stein has raised an incredible amount of money in a relatively short amount of time. I wonder where most of it is really all going to go in the end?
> 
> Or to be more specific, whose pockets it will line?



She raised more money for this recount compared to her WHOLE campaign.

If that doesn't say something, I don't know what will.

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## T-72

Donald Trump's opponents are having something of a field day with news that Hillary Clinton's lead in the popular vote currently tops 1 million.

As US News put it, "Trump's legitimacy has been called into question by his adversaries because he didn't win the popular vote, adding to the desire among his critics to defy him from the start of his administration."

The Nation alerted its readers that "Republican nominee will become president with less popular support than a number of major-party candidates who lost races for the presidency." (The Nation conveniently ignores the fact that Bill Clinton won his first race with just 43% of the popular vote.)

California Sen. Barbara Boxer introduced a bill to eliminate the Electoral College, calling it an "undemocratic system that does not reflect our modern society that."

The feelings among those who supported Hillary Clinton is understandable. After all, as it stands, Trump currently has 46.78% of the vote, compared with Clinton's 47.69%. And as votes continue to be counted, her margin has increased, according to data from US Election Atlas. 






But a closer look at the election returns show that Hillary's lead in the popular vote _is entirely due_ to her oversized margin of victory in uber-liberal California.

First, let's look at the country as a whole.

So far, Trump has won the popular vote in 29 states, to Clinton's 20 states. (As of this writing, Michigan is still up in the air, although Trump currently leads in the vote count.) In other words, Trump carried 45% more states than Clinton.

Since winning state elections is what counts in the United States when running for president, Trump clearly outperformed Clinton. (Trump has 25% more electoral votes than Clinton.)

What's more, Trump's margin of victory in the states he won was, on average, higher than Clinton's.

Of the state's Trump won, he got 56.2% of the vote, on average. Of the states Clinton won, she got only 53.5% of the vote.

The only reason that Clinton is beating Trump in the overall popular vote is that California gave Clinton a _huge_ margin of victory — which currently stands at 61% to 33%.

The thing is, California is a very populous and very liberal state — so far, it has counted more than 10.7 million ballots. As a result, California alone is dumping vast numbers of votes into the Clinton column — where she currently has 3 million more than Trump.

But what if California's vote was in line with all the other Democratic states, where Clinton beat Trump 53.5% to 40.2%?

If that were the case, Clinton would have received 860,000 fewer votes in California. And if Trump had captured the same share he received in those same Democratic states, he'd have gotten 773,000 more California votes.

In other words, if California was more like the average Democratic state, Trump would currently have a _400,000 vote lead_ in the nationwide popular vote.

It's no wonder Boxer wants to do away with the Electoral College, since it would let her state decide presidential elections, even if — as in this election — the Republican candidate did much better in far more states across the country.

As IBD pointed out in a recent editorial, the Electoral College was specifically designed to prevent candidates from winning the presidency simply by appealing to a few heavily-populated, highly partisan regions of the country. The Electoral College forces candidates to compete nationwide if they want to be president. That's a good thing.

Trump was right to say that, if the election were based on the popular vote, he'd have campaigned differently, particularly in states like California and New York where he had no hope of winning the popular vote but could have cut into Hillary's outsized margins and won more votes than her nationwide.

Yes, the Electoral College occasionally produces the odd outcome where the popular vote winner is the election night loser. But without the Electoral College, abnormally partisan states like California could permanently dominate the nation's politics.

It's unlikely people in "flyover" country would consider that fair, or even democratic.
*

Merline* is deputy editor of Commentary and Opinion at IBD.

Outside California, Clinton Is A Big-Time Popular Vote Loser


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## XenoEnsi-14

SALMAN F said:


> Trump is the president get over with it
> muslims have to leave or assilimate or pay jizya to stay and live there


That won't happen, no jizya over here. They already assimilated prior to Trump, and it was voluntary not forced.

There's only two types of people in America, American Citizens and illegal immigrants. You need to get over your ignorant hatred of America


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## LA se Karachi

ultron said:


> In California whites are minority so most of the votes there are illegal Mexican votes. There is no law in California. There is no western civilization in California. There is no democracy in California. California is as third world as Mexico.




Essentially all of the votes were from US citizens, you idiot. Just because someone isn't white, it doesn't mean that they are "illegals".

Democracy and the law are well respected here, probably more so than wherever you are. I don't know what universe you live in. And I assure you that California is more economically successful than wherever you are as well. Clearly, we're doing something right.

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## LA se Karachi

T-72 said:


> Donald Trump's opponents are having something of a field day with news that Hillary Clinton's lead in the popular vote currently tops 1 million.
> 
> As US News put it, "Trump's legitimacy has been called into question by his adversaries because he didn't win the popular vote, adding to the desire among his critics to defy him from the start of his administration."
> 
> The Nation alerted its readers that "Republican nominee will become president with less popular support than a number of major-party candidates who lost races for the presidency." (The Nation conveniently ignores the fact that Bill Clinton won his first race with just 43% of the popular vote.)
> 
> California Sen. Barbara Boxer introduced a bill to eliminate the Electoral College, calling it an "undemocratic system that does not reflect our modern society that."
> 
> The feelings among those who supported Hillary Clinton is understandable. After all, as it stands, Trump currently has 46.78% of the vote, compared with Clinton's 47.69%. And as votes continue to be counted, her margin has increased, according to data from US Election Atlas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But a closer look at the election returns show that Hillary's lead in the popular vote _is entirely due_ to her oversized margin of victory in uber-liberal California.
> 
> First, let's look at the country as a whole.
> 
> So far, Trump has won the popular vote in 29 states, to Clinton's 20 states. (As of this writing, Michigan is still up in the air, although Trump currently leads in the vote count.) In other words, Trump carried 45% more states than Clinton.
> 
> Since winning state elections is what counts in the United States when running for president, Trump clearly outperformed Clinton. (Trump has 25% more electoral votes than Clinton.)
> 
> What's more, Trump's margin of victory in the states he won was, on average, higher than Clinton's.
> 
> Of the state's Trump won, he got 56.2% of the vote, on average. Of the states Clinton won, she got only 53.5% of the vote.
> 
> The only reason that Clinton is beating Trump in the overall popular vote is that California gave Clinton a _huge_ margin of victory — which currently stands at 61% to 33%.
> 
> The thing is, California is a very populous and very liberal state — so far, it has counted more than 10.7 million ballots. As a result, California alone is dumping vast numbers of votes into the Clinton column — where she currently has 3 million more than Trump.
> 
> But what if California's vote was in line with all the other Democratic states, where Clinton beat Trump 53.5% to 40.2%?
> 
> If that were the case, Clinton would have received 860,000 fewer votes in California. And if Trump had captured the same share he received in those same Democratic states, he'd have gotten 773,000 more California votes.
> 
> In other words, if California was more like the average Democratic state, Trump would currently have a _400,000 vote lead_ in the nationwide popular vote.
> 
> It's no wonder Boxer wants to do away with the Electoral College, since it would let her state decide presidential elections, even if — as in this election — the Republican candidate did much better in far more states across the country.
> 
> As IBD pointed out in a recent editorial, the Electoral College was specifically designed to prevent candidates from winning the presidency simply by appealing to a few heavily-populated, highly partisan regions of the country. The Electoral College forces candidates to compete nationwide if they want to be president. That's a good thing.
> 
> Trump was right to say that, if the election were based on the popular vote, he'd have campaigned differently, particularly in states like California and New York where he had no hope of winning the popular vote but could have cut into Hillary's outsized margins and won more votes than her nationwide.
> 
> Yes, the Electoral College occasionally produces the odd outcome where the popular vote winner is the election night loser. But without the Electoral College, abnormally partisan states like California could permanently dominate the nation's politics.
> 
> It's unlikely people in "flyover" country would consider that fair, or even democratic.
> *
> 
> Merline* is deputy editor of Commentary and Opinion at IBD.
> 
> Outside California, Clinton Is A Big-Time Popular Vote Loser




This is a nonsensical way of looking at the vote totals. I wouldn't mind us taking all the credit for Trump's failure to get the most votes from the American people. But that would be absolutely wrong and unfair. Other votes count too.

States like New York, Illinois, Massachusetts, Washington, and all the others she won contributed to her margin of victory as well. We have the largest population, so naturally, we contributed the most. Not to mention that the votes she received in the states she lost contributed just as much to her _total_. In the popular vote, every vote counts the same and she received far more of them in states other than California:






_
http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president_

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## ultron

http://time.com/4582868/donald-trump-people-illegally-voted-election/

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## ultron

@C130 @500

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## LA se Karachi

No they didn't. So-called "illegals" are so scared to death of the government, that they won't even allow themselves to be interviewed by the census. Only a lunatic would think that these people would try to vote and risk being deported.

Especially given that California is a solidly Democratic state, so there would have been no point in voting anyway, since it would not have actually have helped her become President. Not to mention that they wouldn't actually succeed if they tried, and it would become obvious rather quickly if millions of unregistered non-citizens showed up at the polls. A completely nonsensical thing to say. Hillary won the most votes, and there's nothing you or Trump can do about it.


_"There is no evidence that millions voted illegally.

Tallies of the popular vote show that Hillary Clinton beat Trump by more than 2 million votes, though Trump won more Electoral College vote and therefor the presidency."_

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## Desertfalcon

Millions of illegal aliens did not vote, but the popular vote doesn't matter in US presidential elections anyway. The states elect the president through the Electoral College, not the people directly. We are a *federal* republic.

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## LA se Karachi

And only so much of her votes came from California anyway, most of them did not:

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## gambit

> But a closer look at the election returns show that Hillary's lead in the popular vote _is entirely due_ to her oversized margin of victory in uber-liberal California.
> 
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/us-presi...-news-and-views.374363/page-238#ixzz4RFX96APi


This only further reinforce the impression that the Electoral College is a vital component of the US election process. US, not the rest of the world.

It is said that the further away from California's capital city -- Sacramento -- the less popular the decisions of the legislature and governor. Essentially, Californians often feels Sacramento and city dwellers have a grossly disproportionate influence on how the state is managed.

The same attitude can and have been observed in other states regarding their capital cities.

Now expand this to the country.

Here it is again...






The Electoral College maybe a flawed political device but it was designed to work in an equally flawed democratic process. For the US haters out there, spare US the jab that the US democratic system is 'not perfect'. Ours maybe flawed, but often where you live the politics are even shittier.

Anyway...Population concentration and economic wealth are usually hand-in-glove. The intention is that no state(s) should be able to wield disproportionate popular sentiments on who is to be the next President.

Here is what Donald Trump once said about the Electoral College:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...he-electoral-college-from-disaster-to-genius/


> When Trump thought President Obama had won the electoral college while losing the popular vote, Trump thought the electoral college was a “disaster for a democracy.”
> 
> Now that he himself won the electoral college with narrow wins in three states, while losing the popular vote, Trump thinks it’s a “genius” system. He’s right that campaign strategies would have been different if the election were determined by the popular-vote margin, but apparently that was not important to him in 2012.


The Electoral College works.

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## TruthSeeker

In the article that the OP is based on, Trump doesn't say anything about "Mexicans" or "California". He said millions of people voted illegally. Who knows if he is correct or not? A lot of college students in the USA vote illegally due to their dual residences, i.e. (1) their college dorm or apartment precinct and (2) the precinct where they live with parents when not at college. Voter rolls are notoriously rife with dead people, people who have moved and are registered in other places, ineligible felons in some states, and non-citizens who are either documented or undocumented. But really, since Trump wasn't under oath when he tweeted, his free speech rights allow him to say what he said, whether or not it is true. Anyone who believes what politicians say, anyway, is delusional.


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## TruthSeeker

I lived in Upstate New York for many years. It was very frustrating that my conservative vote never counted at the state level (i.e. for President, Senator, Governor, etc.), because the New York City vote always dominated the New York State popular vote. Maine and Nebraska apportion their electoral votes by congressional district, and by statewide vote for the two votes that go with their Senators. That is why Trump won one of Maine's four electoral votes and Hillary won three. If Electoral votes in all states were apportioned by Congregational District, which have close to equal population numbers by design, then the result might seem more fair. Still, however, Trump probably would have won since his party, the Republicans, won a majority of the Congressional Districts and the Senate races as well.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

This Trump guy looks like Pakistani politician every god damn thing he does is controversial


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## TruthSeeker

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> This Trump guy looks like Pakistani politician every god damn thing he does is controversial



What he does is controversial only because he loves controversy, the more the better.


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## ultron

LA se Karachi said:


> Especially given that California is a solidly Democratic state




Before 1992 California was solid Republican. After deportation by Trump, California will again be solid Republican.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1980

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1984

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1988

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## A.P. Richelieu

So basically Trump might have won a few states due to illegal voters, right?


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## TruthSeeker

ultron said:


> Before 1992 California was solid Republican. After deportation by Trump, California will again be solid Republican.



Instead of joining Canada with Oregon and Washington, perhaps California will join Mexico. That way California taxpayers could pay for the welfare of Mexican children, insitu.


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## ultron

A.P. Richelieu said:


> So basically Trump might have won a few states due to illegal voters, right?




Illegal Mexicans vote for Democrats.

Non Hispanic white used to be nearly 60% in California in 1990. Now non Hispanic white is below 40% in California.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hispanic_whites

That's why non Hispanic whites will get rid of illegal Mexicans in California and take back California.

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## TruthSeeker

A.P. Richelieu said:


> So basically Trump might have won a few states due to illegal voters, right?




Yes, of course.


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## LA se Karachi

A.P. Richelieu said:


> So basically Trump might have won a few states due to illegal voters, right?




*No.*


TruthSeeker said:


> Instead of joining Canada with Oregon and Washington, perhaps California will join Mexico. That way California taxpayers could pay for the welfare of Mexican children, insitu.




We have no plans to leave the union. And even in some crazy hypothetical scenario in which we did, we are the 6th largest economy in the world, we wouldn't need to join Mexico or Canada.


ultron said:


> Illegal Mexicans vote for Democrats.




Illegals don't vote, period.


ultron said:


> Non Hispanic white used to be nearly 60% in California in 1990. Now non Hispanic white is below 40% in California.




Mostly due to legal immigration and higher birthrates among Hispanics. Not everyone who isn't white is an illegal, idiot.


ultron said:


> Before 1992 California was solid Republican. After deportation by Trump, California will again be solid Republican.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1980
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1984
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1988




It was indeed solidly Republican in Presidential elections before 1992. Many other states like West Virginia were also solidly Democratic before 2000, but they aren't any longer. The parties have evolved somewhat, and people have changed their allegiances.

And no, California won't become Republican again whether or not illegal immigrants are deported from the state. Younger people of all ethnic groups in California favor Democrats. I also know of many moderate and suburban Republicans that voted for Clinton because they found Trump to be unacceptable. As long as the Republican Party continues to nominate people like him and continues to move to right, their appeal will be very limited out here.


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## LA se Karachi

gambit said:


> It is said that the further away from California's capital city -- Sacramento -- the less popular the decisions of the legislature and governor. Essentially, Californians often feels Sacramento and city dwellers have a grossly disproportionate influence on how the state is managed.




I have never heard that here before. Sacramento itself doesn't have an out-sized influence on California politics, and proximity to it doesn't make their decisions more popular. That's not true at all. People do have problems with decisions it makes, but it breaks down along political lines. In fact, the regions closest to Sacramento (the Central Valley and Sacramento itself) are the ones who often complain about their decisions given that the vast majority of Californians live along the coast. Also, almost all Californians are urban or suburban dwellers. 



gambit said:


> This only further reinforce the impression that the Electoral College is a vital component of the US election process. US, not the rest of the world.




Whatever you might think about the electoral college, I only want to say that it is absolutely incorrect to say (as that dishonest article does) that _California_ alone provided the margin of victory. It makes no sense to separate it from the rest of the country, because one could do the same with New York, Illinois, Massachusetts (or some other combination of states) and say the exact same thing.


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## gambit

LA se Karachi said:


> Whatever you might think about the electoral college, I only want to say that it is absolutely incorrect to say (as that dishonest article does) that _California_ alone provided the margin of victory. It makes no sense to separate it from the rest of the country, because one could do the same with New York, Illinois, Massachusetts (or some other combination of states) and say the exact same thing.


The point of that article is clear: That via popular votes Hillary Clinton would be President.

But equally valid is the point that since there are inevitable disparities in population concentration and wealth, and since wealth always means favorable influence in politics, there should be a compensatory device to that condition. Since the US is a federation, it made it easier for the Founders to come up with a device.

I pointed this out before, that every four yrs we have a national discussion on the EC, every four yrs there were always calls to abolish it, which would require a Constitutional Convention, and every time the 'nays' always got out-argued by the 'yeas'. The American public have repeatedly spoken 'yeas' and I predict the EC will be with US for the next hundred yrs.


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## LA se Karachi

gambit said:


> The point of that article is clear: That via popular votes Hillary Clinton would be President.




Well that part is true, obviously. What it also said was that California _alone_ was responsible for her victory in the popular vote, and nothing could be more misleading. That's the only thing I took issue with:

_
"But a closer look at the election returns show that Hillary's lead in the popular vote is *entirely* due to her oversized margin of victory in uber-liberal California."

"The *only reason* that Clinton is beating Trump in the overall popular vote is that California gave Clinton a huge margin of victory — which currently stands at 61% to 33%.

The thing is, California is a very populous and very liberal state — so far, it has counted more than 10.7 million ballots. As a result, California *alone* is dumping vast numbers of votes into the Clinton column — where she currently has 3 million more than Trump." 

_
In the popular vote, everyone's vote counts the same, whether Californian or otherwise. California (or other states) cannot be separated from other states when it comes to the popular vote. Because if one (misleadingly) does, one could do the same with New York, Illinois, Massachusetts (or some other combination of states) and say the exact same thing. This game could go on forever. Not to mention that she received far more votes from states other than California, including millions from states she lost.



gambit said:


> I pointed this out before, that every four yrs we have a national discussion on the EC, every four yrs there were always calls to abolish it, which would require a Constitutional Convention, and every time the 'nays' always got out-argued by the 'yeas'. The American public have repeatedly spoken 'yeas' and I predict the EC will be with US for the next hundred yrs.




Well like I said, I don't want to get into a debate on the electoral college. I have my thoughts on the matter. But ultimately, it determines who takes office.

With that said, the states themselves actually decide how to allocate their electoral votes. And if enough states decided to allocate all of their electoral votes to the winner of the popular vote, a constitutional convention wouldn't be necessary, because the effect would be the same. Many states have already passed such measures that would take effect only when the total amount of those states' electoral votes add up to 270 or more.

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## ultron

gambit said:


> The point of that article is clear: That via popular votes Hillary Clinton would be President.




It would depend on the system. Even if the US uses a nationwide popular vote system, it does not mean Hillary would win based on her popular vote plurality.

Under the Russia and Ukraine system of majority winner, a candidate must win a majority > 50% of votes to win. Hillary does not reach that threshold and therefore would not win under the Russia and Ukraine system.

Maybe there are countries that use the plurality winner popular vote system, but I do not know of any.

IMO, if the US is to switch to a nationwide popular vote system, regardless of what sort of system to adopt, the US must have 0 illegals. Because illegals muddy the water in such a voting system, the US cannot adopt it if there are illegals in the US voting in elections. It would not be fair to voters. Unless the US deports all illegals, the US would not switch to a popular vote system. 

Already in this election many illegals in California got caught trying to vote. Without doubt, many illegals did vote and were not caught. California has a Democrat governor and therefore no voter ID laws.

http://truthfeed.com/breaking-over-40-illegals-arrested-for-trying-to-vote-in-california/34639/


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## Zibago

ultron said:


> Illegal Mexicans vote for Democrats.
> 
> Non Hispanic white used to be nearly 60% in California in 1990. Now non Hispanic white is below 40% in California.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hispanic_whites
> 
> That's why non Hispanic whites will get rid of illegal Mexicans in California and take back California.


Why are trump supporters under the illusion that all non whites are illegal?
Illegals makeup at best 2 million of US population while Latinos makeup 50 million of US population according to some estimates


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## padamchen

I'm afraid the Democrats are crybabies with this recounting thing. I knew Trump was going to win early this year itself. Not a shred of doubt. California is out of touch with the rest of the nation it is part of. Too many tacos.

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## ultron

Zibago said:


> Why are trump supporters under the illusion that all non whites are illegal?
> Illegals makeup at best 2 million of US population while Latinos makeup 50 million of US population according to some estimates




Non Hispanic whites don't go to other people's countries illegally. Only non whites do that.


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## Zibago

ultron said:


> Non Hispanic whites don't go to other people's countries illegally. Only non whites do that.


Tell that to the Iraqis 
On topic
Not all Hispanics are illegal many are US citizens

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## ultron

Zibago said:


> Not all Hispanics are illegal many are US citizens




True. But many are. Millions are.


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## Zibago

ultron said:


> True. But many are. Millions are.


Calling them mostly illegals is over simplification and vilification of an ethnicity



Technogaianist said:


> I don't usually comment on threads that are likely to be closed, but the US invasion of Iraq does and does not have legal justification. The US did authorize use of force against Iraq in the _Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002. _Of course most of us would find this laughable at best. Like a criminal judge rendering their own crimes valid and ruling on their own case. The resolution enjoyed wide support within the US Congress and Senate and its passing shielded the US from any domestic legal actions. That the US does not ascribe to the ICC shields it from international legal action, by not accepting the court's jurisdiction over its affairs.
> 
> On an international scale there are conflicting views. Some arguments can be made for the UNSC - Russia and China included - having given legal justification and support for the US invasion of Iraq, others of course have a conflicting viewpoint.
> 
> It's debatable and still an ongoing debate, but the legality of the Second Iraq War can't tactically be dismissed as "illegal" since there's a case to be made for both sides and the debate hasn't yet been settled, though it wasn't with the support of Iraqis either. A lack of support from the population of the warred party does not render any action against them illegal by default, just as having their support doesn't make any actions legal either.
> 
> ...
> 
> As for undocumented persons voting, it is the purview of the accusing party to provide proof to their claims. That would be Mr. Trump. I'm not holding my breath waiting for any such evidence.


The second Iraq war was US invading a country over blatant lies and false accusitions and to take out all those in the region who dont play on their team
The congress will support war they get paid by the defence lobbyists to support all wars that boost their production we had cnn panelists say on live tv that US sanctioning Saudi over Yemen bombing will affect our defence sales and we should stay silent

If US was so concerned over Human rights in the Middle East why are they buddy buddy with folks who behead people and flog people?
US needs to learn it can win support and change nations over a barrel of a gun 

Lets hope Trump changes that policy i sure dont see it changing anytime soon

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## ito

Now it is time Trump act like a president. Everyone knew that California will not go Trump's way given that California had different economic conditions and requirements than rest of US.

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## ito

Shakeel Imtiaz said:


> You have to much faith. I'll bet he gets overthrown within his first year



If he continues with his loose talk, he might be impeached by the congress.

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## Beidou2020

It is obvious that illegals are voting especially in sanctuary cities and in states with very easy voting laws.

California has the largest illegal population and California has one of the easiest voting laws.

Obama even encouraged illegals to vote.

Clinton's popular vote lead is because of California.



ito said:


> If he continues with his loose talk, he might be impeached by the congress.



You don't get impeached for 'loose talk'.

Trump has 1st amendment rights just like every other American.



padamchen said:


> I'm afraid the Democrats are crybabies with this recounting thing. I knew Trump was going to win early this year itself. Not a shred of doubt. California is out of touch with the rest of the nation it is part of. Too many tacos.



Too many moronic liberals in California. Illegals too.


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## padamchen

ultron said:


> Too many moronic liberals in California. Illegals too.



I'm an unabashed Trump man. But I must admit recently an American colleague of mine from Washington state who absolutely hates him told me something that I found difficult to overlook or digest. And has since then put me a bit off of the guy.

Is it true that in his younger days he had a case against him for raping a child? I mean, that is just out of the park man. Of course the case was not proven.


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## Beidou2020

padamchen said:


> I'm an unabashed Trump man. But I must admit recently an American colleague of mine from Washington state who absolutely hates him told me something that I found difficult to overlook or digest. And has since then put me a bit off of the guy.
> 
> Is it true that in his younger days he had a case against him for raping a child? I mean, that is just out of the park man. Of course the case was not proven.



The woman that made the claim dropped the case a few weeks ago. It was an attempt to discredit Trump.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-case-casting-doubt-truth-claims.html?0p19G=c

I wouldn't support anyone that do pedophile shit either. Satan worshippers do pedophile shit. It's part of the rituals they do. Pedophiles are pure evil. It's sick and twisted beyond belief.

I believe Trump is a good guy. He does say some dumb stuff at times, but he is a good guy. I don't blindly support him, I disagree with some of his policies but he is infinitely better than that criminal witch Hillary.

I like Trump mainly because the elites hate his guts, especially the media and politicians. That's why I like him. He is the only one with balls that took them on and won. Others are too scared to take them on or just meekly surrender. Not Trump. The dude is a true bad a$$.

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## Solomon2

gambit said:


> The point of that article is clear: That via popular votes Hillary Clinton would be President.
> 
> But equally valid is the point that since there are inevitable disparities in population concentration and wealth, and since wealth always means favorable influence in politics, there should be a compensatory device to that condition. Since the US is a federation, it made it easier for the Founders to come up with a device.
> 
> I pointed this out before, that every four yrs we have a national discussion on the EC, every four yrs there were always calls to abolish it, which would require a Constitutional Convention, and every time the 'nays' always got out-argued by the 'yeas'. The American public have repeatedly spoken 'yeas' and I predict the EC will be with US for the next hundred yrs.


I'm amazed by the campaign on some networks - featuring Democratic members of Congress - to get the electors to not vote Trump and accede to the popular vote instead. I wonder how far the Dems will go with this.


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## RiazHaq

General David Petraeus, former CIA director and commander of US troops in Afghanistan, has said there is no evidence of Pakistan playing a double game and supporting terrorists in Afghanistan. Petraeus' remarks are now particularly significant given the fact that he is on a short list of President-Elect Donald Trump's nominees for Secretary of State. .... He has also ruled out cutting ties with Pakistan as an option. His recommendations have now assumed added significance because he is now on a short list of President-Elect Trump's nominees for secretary of state. http://www.riazhaq.com/2016/11/gen-petraeus-debunks-allegations-of.html

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## DayDreamerz

WeLL Sir its real headache to come here some very remark able people and their threads and posts to the thread I do take pity ON PAKISTAN ARMY ,, AS MIRACLE CREATORS ,, AND AS THE MOST GENIOUS PEOPLE OF ALL TIME ,, BUT THESE TRAINNED TOMANDOS are making no sense at all just time wasting people come and live HERE I mean ON THIS SITE ,, Their is so much happening in USA ,, they are saying what ever their agenda IS ,, WHAT CAN BE A JEWS AGENDA ,, THIS ALL Tells about jews they knows nothing ?? if they do not have machines then not even THIS MUCH ... HOW DO APP LOOG check T T P ,,, like is yu have to make a new MUSLIM what will you do ??? try to teach him side one ,,,, ALL THE SIX , one by one behind you here they will be CAPTURED shais open and HIDDEN ,, our shia PRIME MINISTER chaged all thje laws one by one ARMY MADE in 80s WHY cant you bring them BACK ? APP LOGON KAAY PASS SET DELETE HOING ,, 1 check every 1 how good MUSLIM 1 is thats the first PART OF INTERVIEW ,, including shias open or HIDDEN hehe zardari was out of country to prove us wrong NOW IS THIS AREA BECAME UNSAFE where is all ran T T P hidding ??? like back in 80s ,, every one flee cities and from areas their was TV ,, because on TV shias was asked to come and show if they r MUSLIMS or NO and they asked for TEN DAYS hahaha ,, and ran ,, HIDDING IN SAFE AREAS ,,, 10 days hahaha to just show ,, yes we are MUSLIMs ,, so till then they are not on any POST ,,, how can we forget who ever have TV in 80s knows all this ... a carore times it was repeated ON TV ,, that who are shias ???


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## T-72

Trump will handle India/Pak better than crooked Hillary would have.

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## ultron

updated map 

http://www.cnn.com/election


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## gambit

Solomon2 said:


> I'm amazed by the campaign on some networks - featuring Democratic members of Congress - to get the electors to not vote Trump and accede to the popular vote instead. *I wonder how far the Dems will go with this.*


From all my yrs in observing US politics, I have no problems saying for the US intellectual Left, 'the end justifies the mean' is always a viable tool in their toolbox.

By this I do not mean a Leftist will kill if he/she feels a need for it, although that drastic action cannot be ruled out. What I mean is that a Leftist will go to the end of his/her abilities in order to advance the cause of Marxism. A Leftist leaning journalist will have no problems violating the codes of the profession. A Leftist leaning academician will have no problems exploiting his/her authority in the classroom to indoctrinating young and pliable minds who are very much a captive audience.


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## ultron

Sami Ansari said:


> That a man like Trump wins in a country like America shows how dumb and ignorant Americans are.




Trump is highly popular in the US, even before the election. He hosted TV shows and been on TV for many decades. He's hardly a household name. He has been involved in politics for many decades.


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## ultron

Sami Ansari said:


> He should have remained in Hollywood. That's was better for him. An actor doesn't make a good politician.




Politics is about power. Who has power. Many in the entertainment industry, such as Schwarzzeneger, Reagan, Jesse Ventura became politicians and got power. 

No one is born a politician, a governor, a mayor, a senator, a representative. Every politician used to be a non politician.


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## Penguin

4000 political appointments for the plumbook


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## LA se Karachi

ultron said:


> Trump is highly popular in the US




Not quite. Even after being elected President, his unfavorable rating narrowly exceeds his favorable rating. He's far from being "highly popular in the US".


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## ultron

LA se Karachi said:


> Not quite. Even after being elected President, his unfavorable rating narrowly exceeds his favorable rating. He's far from being "highly popular in the US".




When he's on TV lots of people watch. He is popular.


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## ultron

0.000001 of a million is still considered millions. Plural. It doesn't have to be 1 million or more to be considered millions.


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## ultron

@500 @C130


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## cloud4000

ultron said:


> Politics is about power. Who has power. Many in the entertainment industry, such as Schwarzzeneger, Reagan, Jesse Ventura became politicians and got power.



All these people you have mentioned became and acted like politicians, not Trump. He's still behaving like he's a star of his own reality show. He hasn't shown anything that he's capable of being presidential. He lacks decorum.

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## T-72

cloud4000 said:


> All these people you have mentioned became and acted like politicians, not Trump. He's still behaving like he's a star of his own reality show. He hasn't shown anything that he's capable of being presidential. He lacks decorum.


That he's not a politician is his usp, it's why he connected to the people, he didn't get elected for being "presidential", he got elected for being real, when the time comes, he'll be presidential.

anti Trumpers, get over it already 

#YesYourPresident


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## cloud4000

T-72 said:


> That he's not a politician is his usp, it's why he connected to the people, he didn't get elected for being "presidential", he got elected for being real, when the time comes, he'll be presidential.
> 
> anti Trumpers, get over it already



Well the election is over. Trump is President-Elect now, and will be President in January. Being real means being Presidential, not tweeting like teenager. Trump needs to get on board. 


T-72 said:


> #YesYourPresident



Yes, Trump is my President. I will call him President Trump. Not because I like the guy. I don't. Not because I agree with him. On most things, I don't. But I do it out of respect for the office and the system of government and, most important, the Constitution, something Trump seems to have a very weak grasp of.

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## T-72

cloud4000 said:


> Well the election is over. Trump is President-Elect now, and will be President in January. Being real means being Presidential, not tweeting like teenager. Trump needs to get on board.


It's a very effective platform to communicate over, we saw him use it brilliantly during the course of his campaign, and because the msm is still a 100% opposed to him, he's sort of boxed in to that being the only place where he can communicate honestly to his supporters. 

Trump is a master media manipulator, his Mike Pence Hamilton incident 'safe space' tweet was just him taking the piss on the left, the 'only I know the *finalists*' one, again, he's just pissing all over his 'reality tv clown' detractor pundits.

He probably cant get enough of the wild speculation, and may well be playing Romney like a toy only to dump him big league later lol

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## cloud4000

T-72 said:


> Indian origin fearmonger scumbag spreads fear on MSNBC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> deport to guantanamo + waterboard the commie till he's cured



The only thing to fear is this guy's hair! I know him. He's very active on Twitter. He's the type of liberal that is well known: the urban hipster. In his case, it's Brooklyn, which is ground zero for rich liberal elite. Anything he says should be taken with a grain of salt.



Desert Fox said:


> These leftists are delusional. They're pissed at Trump because he's their ugly reflection in the mirror. They got their equivalent and they deserve it  .



This delusion led to their defeat. The liberal MSM let them down be predicting a Clinton victory. The polls said it would be a Clinton victory. No one on the left saw a Trump victory coming. Why? Because they all live in a bubble of their own making. They have no idea what the other half lives like. Have no idea whatsoever. They got hung by their own petard -- identity politics.

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## SALMAN F

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> That won't happen, no jizya over here. They already assimilated prior to Trump, and it was voluntary not forced.
> 
> There's only two types of people in America, American Citizens and illegal immigrants. You need to get over your ignorant hatred of America



It's not hatred I am just replying to the muslim hypocrisy 

They complain about trump but ya the same time if you want to live in their lands you have to pay jizya


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## T-72

cloud4000 said:


> The only thing to fear is this guy's hair! I know him. He's very active on Twitter. He's the type of liberal that is well known: the urban hipster. In his case, it's Brooklyn, which is ground zero for rich liberal elite. Anything he says should be taken with a grain of salt.


lol, and what a perfect caricature of trendy hipsterness he is too.


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## ultron

Jill Stein crazy conspiracy theory http://www.politicususa.com/2016/11/30/jill-stein-recount-promise-filing-recount-michigan.html

Michigan ballot and instruction http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,1607,7-127-1633_8716_45458-202640--,00.html


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## ultron

http://people.howstuffworks.com/electoral-college.htm


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## ultron

@C130 @500


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## T-72

lol, this guy isn't going anywhere for 8 years

next he'll come good on Syria, end that mess and do the whole planet a big favour.

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## Banglar Bir

*Anti-Muslim Activist Katharine Gorka Named to Homeland Security Transition Team*


Alex Emmons

Lee Fang
November 30 2016, 10:32 p.m

https://theintercept.com/2016/11/30/katie-gorka-trump/

.
KATHARINE GORKA, A CONTROVERSIAL national security analyst who specializes in discussing the threat posed by Muslims to the United States, has complained bitterly that the Department of Homeland Security trains its agents — falsely, in her opinion — that Islam is a “religion of peace.”

Now, Gorka will have a chance to help Donald Trump remake the department. On Tuesday, she was selected by Trump to be part of the DHS “landing team” that will meet with Obama’s DHS officials to manage the handoff to new leadership.

Gorka, the president of a think tank called the Council on Global Security and the president of Threat Knowledge Group, a consulting firm, is a well-known figure among anti-Muslim campaigners.

Gorka argues that defeating terrorism depends “upon our being able to call the enemy by its proper name: Global Jihadism.” She has pushed legislation to designate the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist group and impose sanctions on its “affiliates, associated groups, or agents.”

The affiliated groups mentioned in the legislation include mainstream civil rights organizations such as the Council on American-Islamic Relations and the Islamic Society of North America.

Gorka also writes about Islam for Breitbart News, a website described by its former executive chairman Steve Bannon as a “platform” for the white supremacist “alt-right” movement. Bannon is one of Trump’s top advisers. In one 2014 column, Gorka wrote that when “Presidents Bush and Obama both publicly declared Islam to be a religion of peace,” it “struck a sour chord for many,” and that “American and Western leaders have preemptively shut down any debate within Islam by declaring that Islam is the religion of peace.”

In another column, she defended five members of Congress, including then-presidential candidate Rep. Michelle Bachmann, R-Minn., who were widely denounced by their own party leaders for spreading conspiracy theories in 2012 after they accused a top Clinton aide of ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and called on President Obama to investigate.

Gorka claimed that the New York Times had “provided proof of Muslim Brotherhood influence” after it published an exposé on how Gulf-state monarchies were funding U.S. think tanks.

Katharine Gorka is married to Sebastian Gorka, another Breitbart contributor and former policy consultant to the Trump campaign. Sebastian Gorka has accused mainstream Muslim civil rights organizations like the Muslim Public Affairs Council and the Council on American-Islamic Relations of using “subversive tactics” and having ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas.

Speaking to the Family Research Council in June, Sebastian Gorka called the religious profiling of Muslims “a synonym for common sense.” When asked by The Intercept about Trump, Sebastian said Trump “is no fan of political correctness, he knows we are at war, and he wants to win. And my golly gosh isn’t that a refreshing attitude!”

Top photo: The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) seal stands at the agency’s headquarters in Washington, D.C.


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## T-72

Just looked her up, she's Dr Sebastian Gorka's wife. He's a frequent guest on Fox, Hannity was pushing hard to try and get him a spot in the Trump administration.

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## RabzonKhan

*Bernie Sanders: Carrier just showed corporations how to beat Donald Trump*

*We need a president who can stand up to big corporations, not fold to their demands.
*
By Bernie Sanders December 1

Today, about 1,000 Carrier workers and their families should be rejoicing. But the rest of our nation’s workers should be very nervous.

*President-elect Donald Trump will reportedly announce a deal with United Technologies, the corporation that owns Carrier, that keeps less than 1,000 of the 2,100 jobs in America that were previously scheduled to be transferred to Mexico. Let’s be clear: It is not good enough to save some of these jobs. Trump made a promise that he would save all of these jobs, and we cannot rest until an ironclad contract is signed to ensure that all of these workers are able to continue working in Indiana without having their pay or benefits slashed.*

*In exchange for allowing United Technologies to continue to offshore more than 1,000 jobs, Trump will reportedly give the company tax and regulatory favors that the corporation has sought. Just a short few months ago, Trump was pledging to force United Technologies to “pay a damn tax.” He was insisting on very steep tariffs for companies like Carrier that left the United States and wanted to sell their foreign-made products back in the United States. Instead of a damn tax, the company will be rewarded with a damn tax cut. Wow! How’s that for standing up to corporate greed? How’s that for punishing corporations that shut down in the United States and move abroad?*

In essence, United Technologies took Trump hostage and won. And that should send a shock wave of fear through all workers across the country.

Trump has endangered the jobs of workers who were previously safe in the United States. Why? Because he has signaled to every corporation in America that they can threaten to offshore jobs in exchange for business-friendly tax benefits and incentives. Even corporations that weren’t thinking of offshoring jobs will most probably be reevaluating their stance this morning. And who would pay for the high cost for tax cuts that go to the richest businessmen in America? The working class of America. 

Let’s be clear. United Technologies is not going broke. Last year, it made a profit of $7.6 billion and received more than $6 billion in defense contracts. It has also received more than $50 million from the Export-Import Bank and very generous tax breaks. In 2014, United Technologies gave its former chief executive Louis Chenevert a golden parachute worth more than $172 million. Last year, the company’s five highest-paid executives made more than $50 million. The firm also spent $12 billion to inflate its stock price instead of using that money to invest in new plants and workers.

*Does that sound like a company that deserves more corporate welfare from our government? Trump’s Band-Aid solution is only making the problem of wealth inequality in America even worse.*

I said I would work with Trump if he was serious about the promises he made to members of the working class. But after running a campaign pledging to be tough on corporate America, Trump has hypocritically decided to do the exact opposite. He wants to treat corporate irresponsibility with kid gloves. The problem with our rigged economy is not that our policies have been too tough on corporations; it’s that we haven’t been tough enough.

We need to re-instill an ethic of corporate patriotism. We need to send a very loud and clear message to corporate America: The era of outsourcing is over. Instead of offshoring jobs, the time has come for you to start bringing good-paying jobs back to America.

If United Technologies or any other company wants to keep outsourcing decent-paying American jobs, those companies must pay an outsourcing tax equal to the amount of money they expect to save by moving factories to Mexico or other low-wage countries. They should not receive federal contracts or other forms of corporate welfare. They must pay back all of the tax breaks and other corporate welfare they have received from the federal government. And they must not be allowed to reward their executives with stock options, bonuses or golden parachutes for outsourcing jobs to low-wage countries. I will soon be introducing the Outsourcing Prevention Act, which will address exactly that.

*If Donald Trump won’t stand up for America’s working class, we must.* *Link*

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> We need to re-instill an ethic of *corporate patriotism*. We need to send a very loud and clear message to corporate America: The era of outsourcing is over. Instead of offshoring jobs, the time has come for you to start bringing good-paying jobs back to America.



Corporate patriotism? Sounds something Hitler would say. Poor choice of words, Bernie. 



RabzonKhan said:


> If United Technologies or any other company wants to keep outsourcing decent-paying American jobs, those companies must pay an outsourcing tax equal to the amount of money they expect to save by moving factories to Mexico or other low-wage countries. They should not receive federal contracts or other forms of corporate welfare. They must pay back all of the tax breaks and other corporate welfare they have received from the federal government. And they must not be allowed to reward their executives with stock options, bonuses or golden parachutes for outsourcing jobs to low-wage countries. I will soon be introducing the Outsourcing Prevention Act, which will address exactly that.



Sometimes people need reminding that Bernie Sanders is a socialist. And socialism doesn't work. You just need to re-read Bernie's election platform to be reminded that -- humble and straightforward as he is -- the man has some pretty nutty ideas that borders on the insane. 

If the US becomes a hostile place to do business -- be it under Bernie or Trump -- they will just take their business elsewhere. If Bernie wants to see capital flight from the US, just keep coming up with these crazy ideas.


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## ultron



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## untitled

Is this going to be converted to a standby Air Force One?


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## KAL-EL

Sami Ansari said:


> He should have remained in Hollywood. That's was better for him.* An actor doesn't make a good *politician.



President Ronald Reagan. Now granted, he's probably more the exception than the rule. But he's one hell of an exception.

And to a smaller extent, former governor of California Arnold Schwarzenegger made a pretty decent politician.


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## untitled

Presidential Jet Smackdown: Is Trump’s Private Plane Better Than Air Force One?

_Of course, there are a few things that Air Force One has that Trump doesn’t. First, there are technically two Air Force One planes. As mentioned, Obama’s jets seat 76 passengers (to Trump’s 43), can travel 600 miles per hour (to Trump’s 500 mph), and it can refuel mid-air. There’s also a cache of weapons along with a small hospital on board. Plus, the outside of Air Force One is hand polished before each flight. Disappointingly, despite its depiction in the movie Air Force One with Harrison Ford, there are no escape pods onboard. We think Trump should definitely get one of those._

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## T-72

yay, one last round of rallies. President Trump's victory tour begins. *

Full Event: President-Elect Donald Trump Rally in Cincinnati, OH 12/1/16 *




*





*

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## LA se Karachi

cloud4000 said:


> He's the type of liberal that is well known: the urban hipster. In his case, it's Brooklyn, which is ground zero for rich liberal elite.




Brooklyn is indeed ground zero for hipsters. But not for the "rich liberal elite"---whatever that means. Why the focus on liberals? Rich people are more likely to be conservative. Republicans do support policies that benefit the rich, after all.



cloud4000 said:


> This delusion led to their defeat. The liberal MSM let them down be predicting a Clinton victory. The polls said it would be a Clinton victory. No one on the left saw a Trump victory coming.




It wasn't delusion. It was poor polling data. If the polls had shown a clear victory for Trump, the "MSM" would not have predicted a victory for Clinton. Polls let the nation down.

It was something I touched on in this very thread. Turnout was not as high as had been predicted among Democrats/young people/liberals, and she lost as a result (though she still received 2 million more votes in total than Trump). 



cloud4000 said:


> Sometimes people need reminding that Bernie Sanders is a socialist. And socialism doesn't work.




He doesn't support true socialism. I think that Democratic-socialism (what Bernie believes in) is working pretty well in countries like Norway, Austria, Finland, Denmark, Ireland, and Canada (among others). They're doing better than America in a lot of different economic categories. These countries tend to rank among the happiest on earth too.

Democratic-socialism (what Bernie believes in) is very common across Europe. It's not pure socialism and is rooted in the free market:
_
"Ever since Bernie Sanders announced his candidacy, much attention has been focused on the fact he calls himself a democratic socialist. Socialist, in the American lexicon, has a negative connotation, mainly because of common misunderstandings.

Sanders himself has tried many times to explain the difference between “socialism” and “democratic socialism,” but the right still seems hung up on misrepresenting his views and exploiting people’s fears. America has a rich socialist history many people are unaware of, but still fear the “S” word and picture evil dictators and red flags."_


_"*3. It Is Not A Replacement For Capitalism*

True socialism would replace the capitalist economy we live in now and replace it fully with a socialist one. While this is the dream of Marxists and socialists everywhere, this is not the plan under democratic socialism. Democratic socialism would instead put more restrictions on corporations and owners. This would include limitations on how much more money a CEO can make compared to their employees, and granting employees more rights and higher minimum wage.

*4. It Is Not The Same As Regular Socialism*

Democratic socialists have historically rejected the belief that the economy should be centrally planned (a centrally-planned economy is a socialist keystone belief). Instead, democratic socialism believes that some parts of society may be better if they are democratically planned: mass transit, medical care, minimum wage, etc. Democratic socialism still believes the capitalist market is best for consumer goods and services."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-arel/5-ways-democratic-sociali_b_8876476.html_



cloud4000 said:


> Corporate patriotism?* Sounds something Hitler would say. *Poor choice of words, Bernie.




Good grief. Talk about hyperbole.

President Obama in 2014:
_

"But I am interested in* economic patriotism*. Instead of doubling down on top-down economics, I want an *economic patriotism* that says we rise or fall together, as one nation, and as one people. (Applause.) _
_
*Economic patriotism* says it's a good thing when we close wasteful tax loopholes and invest in education, and invest in job training that helps the economy for everybody. Instead of tax breaks for millionaires, let’s give tax breaks to families to help on child care or college. (Applause.) Let’s stop rewarding companies that ship jobs overseas; give tax breaks to companies that are bringing jobs back to the United States. (Applause.) Let’s put America back to work rebuilding roads and bridges and airports. Let’s make sure the next generation of good manufacturing is happening right here in Los Angeles, and in Wisconsin, and in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.__ 

*Economic patriotism* says it’s a good thing when our fellow citizens have access to preschool, and college, and, yes, health care that is affordable. (Applause.) It’s a good thing when women earn the same as men for doing the same work. It’s a good thing when nobody who’s working full-time has to raise a family in poverty. (Applause.) That's not un-American. It’s how we built America -- together. That’s what *economic patriotism* is."

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/07/24/remarks-president-economy-los-angeles-ca
_

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## T-72



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## T-72

interesting conversation:

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## T-72




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## T-72

Ok, finally watched the speech..
*
"we will destroy ISIS...at the same time, we will pursue a new foreign policy that finally learns from the mistakes of the past, we will stop looking to topple regimes and overthrow governments" 

"our goal is stability, not chaos"*





*

*

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## cloud4000

Great post, as usual. Quite extensive that I cannot respond to all points, but I would like to touch on a few.



LA se Karachi said:


> Brooklyn is indeed ground zero for hipsters. But not for the "rich liberal elite"---whatever that means. Why the focus on liberals? Rich people are more likely to be conservative. Republicans do support policies that benefit the rich, after all.



That Republicans is the party of the rich and Democrats is the party of the working class is not as clear cut these days as it use to be. This election proved it, in my opinion. Look who voted for Democrats and who voted for Republicans. 



LA se Karachi said:


> It wasn't delusion. It was poor polling data. If the polls had shown a clear victory for Trump, the "MSM" would not have predicted a victory for Clinton. Polls let the nation down.
> 
> It was something I touched on in this very thread. Turnout was not as high as had been predicted among Democrats/young people/liberals, and she lost as a result (though she still received 2 million more votes in total than Trump).



No doubt poor polling data played their part in this election, but I must tell there is a sizable number of people who thought Clinton's victory was all but guaranteed. To the them Trump was a joke. Easily defeated...and by landslide too. I think this complacency also kept many Democrats at home too.

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## ultron

cloud4000 said:


> That Republicans is the party of the rich and Democrats is the party of the working class is not as clear cut these days as it use to be. This election proved it, in my opinion. Look who voted for Democrats and who voted for Republicans.




Some of the riches in the US are Democrats. Warren Buffet. George Soros. The Democratic party is definitely NOT the party of the poor. 

Democrats play upon the poor for votes. What do Democrats do for poor people? Nothing.

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## T-72

cloud4000 said:


> sizable number of people who thought Clinton's victory was all but guaranteed. To the them Trump was a joke. Easily defeated...and by landslide too. I think this complacency also kept many Democrats at home too.


and did most of these people really not care about their foreign policy at all, not even a little bit ? I'll tell you from an outsider's perspective, the choice was clear as day and night, black and white, piss and beer, pudding and poop.. 

crooked hillary was always about more war, maybe even ww3, and supporting terrorists, and taking money from shady arab regimes and doing their bidding etc 

Trump otoh, his campaign was always about no more war, no more supporting terrorists, no more regime change, diffuse tensions with Russia, make more allies, peace and common sense.

We, the rest of the world are so relieved that horrible evil bitch is not going to have a chance to destroy the planet like she planned to.


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## Solomon2

cloud4000 said:


> No doubt poor polling data played their part in this election -


Before the election the mainstream media thought "the jury was out" as to whether it made a difference: link.

I don't think it's always a good idea to answer political phone polls. Only the elections for president and senate are truly democratic; in the house of representatives the ruling party at the state level in many states uses polling data to gerrymander congressional districts to maximum advantage, creating many districts with small majorities in their favor vs. a few districts crammed with the opposition. In essence, the politicians are choosing their voters, rather than the other way 'round. The distortion leads to extremism at the political level: a state may be 60% Democrat and 40% Republican but end up with 80% Democrat and 20% Republican as its representation.

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## Desert Fox

Solomon2 said:


> Before the election the mainstream media thought "the jury was out" as to whether it made a difference: link.


They were just proven to be big liars. Though it seems they have learned very little.



T-72 said:


> Ok, finally watched the speech..
> *
> "we will destroy ISIS...at the same time, we will pursue a new foreign policy that finally learns from the mistakes of the past, we will stop looking to topple regimes and overthrow governments"
> 
> "our goal is stability, not chaos"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *


That is a very sensible policy. I don't see how anyone could disagree with Trump's foreign policy in the Middle East which is a far cry from the neo-Con Hillary's designs to overthrow stable governments.



RabzonKhan said:


> We need to re-instill an ethic of corporate patriotism. We need to send a very loud and clear message to corporate America: The era of outsourcing is over. Instead of offshoring jobs, the time has come for you to start bringing good-paying jobs back to America.


"We"? Who's this "we"? Didn't Bernie the fake commie chicken out to Hillary? So much for "feel the Berne" aye? 

It's easy for this "socialist" to make suggestions from his $600,000 lakefront home in Vermont. When it came to walking the talk he didn't even try to fight for his supporters.



cloud4000 said:


> Sometimes people need reminding that Bernie Sanders is a socialist. And socialism doesn't work. You just need to re-read Bernie's election platform to be reminded that -- humble and straightforward as he is -- the man has some pretty nutty ideas that borders on the insane.


Bernie's not humble. The guy reeks of hypocrisy. What kind of "socialist" owns three homes, the latest one of which is $600,000? Not to mention *his race baiting* comment that "no White person understands poverty" meanwhile the entire White Appalachian population which is 97% White lives under the national poverty line. Bernie's a conman who took $200,000,000 donations from his jobless supporters and still didn't even attempt to fight for them at the DNC like he promised. I'm glad Bernie supporters got what they deserved.


cloud4000 said:


> If the US becomes a hostile place to do business -- be it under Bernie or Trump -- they will just take their business elsewhere. If Bernie wants to see capital flight from the US, just keep coming up with these crazy ideas.


I have faith businesses will flourish under Trump as he is pushing for a business friendly evniornment to persuade big businesses to stay and encourage small businesses to flourish.


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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> That is a very sensible policy. I don't see how anyone could disagree with Trump's foreign policy in the Middle East which is a far cry from the neo-Con Hillary's designs to overthrow stable governments.


Make Syria Great Again






and an Israeli/Palestine peace deal sometime within these next 8 years, lulz away but I'm not joking.. I'll bump this in X years when it happens.

and he'll probably clear those free F-16s for Pakistan when India reject the block70IN or whatever the obongo regime are trying to push now.

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## Desert Fox

T-72 said:


> and he'll probably clear those free F-16s for Pakistan when India reject the block70IN or whatever the obongo regime are trying to push now.


I hope not. Pakistan needs to learn its lesson (if they haven't already) that depending on America for anything is bad for Pakistan's interests. One of the reasons i voted Trump because his tough stance on military and financial aid to Pakistan will finally end Pakistan's dependence on American support and shift Pakistan's priorities towards more self sufficiency and partnership with Russia (and other alternative sources) for military hardware. The West (including America) have a history of pulling the plug on Pakistan when it has needed their assistance the most.


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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> I hope not. Pakistan needs to learn its lesson (if they haven't already) that depending on America for anything is bad for Pakistan's interests. One of the reasons i voted Trump because his tough stance on military and financial aid to Pakistan will finally end Pakistan's dependence on American support and shift Pakistan's priorities towards more self sufficiency and partnership with Russia (and other alternative sources) for military hardware. The West (including America) have a history of pulling the plug on Pakistan when it has needed their assistance the most.


He's a businessman and a very astute strategist, expect him to dangle bait and even whip everyone (allies included) with all the leverage he's got whenever he can to get a deal for 'murrica.  

I don't think he'll be relaxing regulations on Pakistani F-16s to allow them to participate in any war games with Russia/China. Spl if they're US taxpayer subsided, "not gonna happen anymore, folks" 

These (western)monopolists pulled the plug on both India and Pak after we went nuclear as China and Russia stood by their junior partners (let's face it, India and Pak are exactly that)

Anyway, hopefully India/Pak remain slightly lower down the stack of shit the POTUS goes through every day. I'm happy about Trump winning, let's all make deals and make the planet great again, yes ?


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## GiannKall

Say that three times
"Global Jihadism"
"Global Jihadism"
"Global Jihadism"
!!!!
It didnt worked. What now?


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## Thəorətic Muslim

Damn... Not sure General Mad Dog can hold out now...


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## Indus Pakistan

Great news !


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## Mitro

That's very good trump has to do about saudi jihadi ideology which American use against USSR .
It will be a great service to peace loving Muslim all around the world .


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## ultron

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...2/boehner-trump-democrat-republican/94818948/

In 1988 he was described as conservative. Maybe what's considered conservative back then is considered liberal today.


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## ultron

@500 @C130


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## 52051

I cannot help but laughing, the title is so trumpish, hehehe

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## H!TchHiker

*It's official: Donald Trump has chosen Gen. James Mattis for defense secretary*







By: Leo Shane III, Military Times, December 1, 2016 (Photo Credit: Carolyn Kaster/AP)
Donald Trump on Thursday announced retired Marine Corps Gen. James Mattis as his pick for secretary of defense, tasking the popular military leader with carrying out the president-elect's planned overhaul of Pentagon operations and a shift in national security priorities. 

Speaking at a rally Thursday night in Cincinnati, Trump confirmed media reports published earlier in the day indicating the president-elect intended to nominate Mattis for the key Cabinet post. 

Neither Mattis nor Trump's transition team responded to Military Times' requests for comment. 

The 66-year-old retired general, who left active duty in 2013 after reportedly falling from favor with the Obama administration over disagreements about Iran, last served as the head of U.S. Central Command. The post afforded him oversight of all military activity in the Middle East, to include the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. He will require a waiver from Congress to hold the Pentagon's top post because law mandates a seven-year wait between active-duty service and working as defense secretary, a rule designed to reinforce the concept of civilian control of the military. 

Mattis is widely respected on Capitol Hill, and likely won't encounter any difficulty getting confirmed. Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John McCain, R-Ariz., has praised Mattis as "one of the finest military officers of his generation and an extraordinary leader," and has signaled Senate support for Trump's choice, saying it won't be a problem for Mattis to obtain the waiver he'll need to serve as secretary.

_Video by Daniel Woolfolk/Staff_ 

Trump will look to Mattis, if confirmed, to help navigate a host of global security challenges: Washington's standoff with Russia, China's imperial ambitions, ongoing violence in Africa and the Middle East. 

"The Afghan war is not going well," said Peter Bergen, a military analyst and vice president of the New America think tank. "One of the first things the Trump administration needs to do is to figure out its policy there." 

Inside the Pentagon, Mattis was known for being assertive with the use of U.S. forces, said Bryan Clark, who was a top aide to Adm. Jon Greenert, the chief of naval operations from 2011 to 2015. Mattis leaned on the Navy to keep two aircraft carriers in the Persian Gulf as a means to counter Iran, creating some strain on the service's budget and resources. 

“He pushed a lot more of a hawkish tone towards Iran” said Clark, now an analyst with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments. “At the time, the Obama administration was trying to use the ‘carrot and stick’ method to get Iran to the table: The carrot being the nuclear negotiations and the sticks being the stepped up carrier presence. Mattis favored using the stick until the adversary cedes to your wishes — then bring out the carrots.” 




Military Times
Here's why officers can't easily become defense secretaries
During his final years of service, Mattis sparred often with Obama’s national security team. As the president moved to set up his nuclear agreement with Iran, Mattis publicly advocated his aggressive approach to confronting the regime he has come to view as the greatest threat to stability in the Middle East. Trump made this a key foreign policy point on the campaign trail, repeatedly blasting Obama and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for the nuclear deal. 

While China and Russia might call for somewhat different approaches, Clark added that Mattis clearly believes in the power of U.S military muscle to solve problems. “He'll look to be a lot more assertive in our disagreements with other nations,” Clark said. “... He postured a large amount of forces with a lot of capabilities in the places they'd want to cause trouble.”




Military Times
Mattis: The man, the myths and the influential general's deep bond with his Marines
The general enjoys a cult-like following among past and present military members — particularly infantry Marines and soldiers — inspired by his swashbuckling rhetoric about the realities of war. He is known by an array of nicknames and military callsigns, including Mad Dog, Chaos and Warrior Monk. The last derives from his bachelor status, a rarity among those who attain four-star status. 

Regarded as an intellectual but tough-edged military leader, Mattis is known for his colorful quotes such as: "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." His 44-year military career, which includes experience on the ground in combat, buoys his credibility. After their initial meeting on Nov. 19, Trump called Mattis “the real deal.” 




Military Times
This is what General Mattis gets wrong about Iran
Mattis currently works as a national security fellow at the California-based Hoover Institution. In recent months he has spoken frequently in Washington, D.C., about the need for military leadership and vigilance in an increasingly dangerous world. 

The president-elect has indicated a strong desire for a bigger military and fewer spending restrictions. But Trump also has promised a less-confrontational foreign policy strategy, blasting the past two presidents' inclination toward “nation building,” calling the approach an unforgivable failure. 

It remains to be seen how that syncs with Mattis’ opinions. But in August, the general co-authored a report blasting the last three administrations for a perceived lack of national security vision, saying those leaders have largely ignored threats posed by Russia, China and terrorist groups worldwide. 

“If the world feels more dangerous to you, it should,” the report states. “We are seeing the results of 20 years of the United States operating unguided by strategy. We have been slow to identify emergent threats and unwilling to prioritize competing interests; we have sent confounding messages to enemies and allies alike. Our country urgently needs to up our game, make common cause with countries that are willing to help repair and sustain the international order that has served the United States and our allies so well.” 


Trump has said that Mattis may have changed his views on torturing terrorists — even before being formally offered the job. Trump and his surrogates have been advocates for a return to waterboarding and other controversial interrogation techniques, but in an interview with the New York Times on Nov. 22 the president-elect said Mattis made him rethink that position. 

Instead, Trump said, Mattis advocated building a relationship with detainees. He told Trump “give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple of beers, and I’ll do better,” an answer the president-elect called "impressive."




Military Times
Retired Gen. James Mattis says civilians know little about the military
Last spring, a group of Mattis fans unsuccessfully attempted to draft the retired general as an alternative presidential candidate to Trump and Clinton, but Mattis rebuffed the effort. And unlike a number of other high-profile former military leaders, he declined to condemn Trump’s campaign trail rhetoric about attacking the families of terrorists as dangerous and un-American. 

In September, Mattis co-authored the book "Warriors & Citizens" which addresses the cultural gap between the military and the civilian population it serves. The results revealed a surprising level of ignorance and unfamiliarity. 

His research found that one in three Americans have little or no familiarity with the military, and half of Americans cannot recall socializing with a service member or military spouse within the last year. This may point to at least one of his priorities as defense secretary: bridging the so-called civil-military divide. 

“There are many people who do not know if the U.S. Army has 60,000 men or 6 million," Mattis told Military Times when the book was published in September. "They do not have a clue about that. 

“America is quite right to be proud of their military, but at the same time there has got to be a sense of common purpose between these two elements. If, in fact, this gap grows and we lose the sense of common purpose, then I think we have a problem.” 

Mattis espouses and exudes the virtues of military leadership and will bring three "critical elements" to the Pentagon, said retired Adm. James Stavridis, who retired in 2013 as NATO's top commander. 

"First a deep profound and unshakable understanding of combat operations from having been there," Stavridis said. "Second an intellectual underpinning that comprehends the deepest elements of military history and strategy. And third an unbounded compassion for the troops that he serves."

_With reporting by Jeff Schogol of Marine Corps Times and David Larter of Navy Times. The Associated Press also contributed to this report. _ 



_Leo Shane III covers Congress, Veterans Affairs and the White House for Military Times. He can be reached at lshane@militarytimes.com_ _._
http://www.militarytimes.com/editorial-contacts

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## Desertfalcon

It's not only highly unusual for such a recently retired general to be Defence Secretary but he will be teamed up with the new National Security Advisor who is also a general, Michael Flynn.






_Gen. James "mad dog" Mattis-USMC DefSec designee




Gen. Michael Flynn-US Army NSC designee.
_
II wouldn't want to piss either of them off.


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## H!TchHiker

Desertfalcon said:


> It's not only highly unusual for such a recently retired general to be Defence Secretary but he will be teamed up with the new National Security Advisor who is also a general, Michael Flynn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Gen. James "mad dog" Mattis-USMC DefSec designee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gen. Michael Flynn-US Army NSC designee.
> _
> II wouldn't want to piss either of them off.


Indeed G. James Seems to be more ruthless ""*Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet"." No war is over until the enemy says its over. We may think it over, we may declare it over, but in fact, the enemy gets a vote"*

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

If you want to get a tough job done find a tough guy. As for Afganistan being an example, the toughest job is to get the hell out ASAP - as if it never had happened at the first place. Hint: Vietnam in 1975 or any US court order on divorce cases...

As for the folks willing to negotiate with these "tough guys", develop some manly demeanors (and possibly looks & voice). Qamar _Pasha_ appears to be more than OK...

As for thunder-voiced Raheel _Pasha_, possibly being the commander of a force comprising mostly of the ex _Osmanli Vilayets_ (Ottoman provinces), he will live up to his reputation _inshaAllah _while spending long hours and days in the negotiation table...

As for Mr. Trump, he is building his senior executive team with the folks who will bring him more businesses and reduce costs...

*Here, Trump and the USA are used interchangeably...

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## Beidou2020

Mad Dog Mattis.

I've read his quotes and listened to some of his interviews. Not a guy to be messed with.


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## JanjaWeed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/804829618154901504


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## LA se Karachi

cloud4000 said:


> Great post, as usual. Quite extensive that I cannot respond to all points, but I would like to touch on a few.




Thank you, my friend. Differences of opinion are healthy. The world would be a very boring place if everyone agreed all the time. I just like to point out the facts, and make my case.



cloud4000 said:


> That Republicans is the party of the rich and Democrats is the party of the working class is not as clear cut these days as it use to be. This election proved it, in my opinion. Look who voted for Democrats and who voted for Republicans.




Most low-income voters still voted for Clinton, though there was a bit of a shift towards Trump:





_Source: New York Times Exit Poll

_
Nor have people's opinions about the parties/candidates changed much this year:






More importantly, regardless of who voters vote for, Republicans cannot stop being termed a party of the rich and start being termed a party of the middle & working classes, until they stop supporting policies that favor the rich and start supporting policies that actually favor the middle & working classes.

That doesn't mean that they have to turn into Democrats, either. They could continue to hold the same positions on social issues and foreign policy that they do now.



ultron said:


> Democrats play upon the poor for votes. What do Democrats do for poor people? Nothing.




Quite the opposite, actually. Republicans prey on poor whites for votes, and then enact policies that help the rich and harm the poor/middle class.

What do Republicans for poor whites? Nothing.



cloud4000 said:


> No doubt poor polling data played their part in this election, but I must tell there is a sizable number of people who thought Clinton's victory was all but guaranteed. To the them Trump was a joke. Easily defeated...and by landslide too. I think this complacency also kept many Democrats at home too.




Well, I do agree with you on this. Polls did show the race tightening as the election day approached, but Clinton still led in almost all of them. But you're absolutely right that some people did not take him seriously enough and stayed home. But you can only blame them so much, given what polling what showing:







Months ago, I remember having a casual conversation with a friend, shortly before the primaries entered the final stage. We were talking about Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. He (a Bernie supporter, like me--and working in finance, by the way) said that although he was sad to see Hillary to be the likely nominee, she would still go on to beat Trump easily, in a somewhat nonchalant tone. I replied that was probably true, but Trump could still win if he over-performed and won Midwestern states, especially among working-class voters if many Sanders supporters stayed home. Even if she was winning the popular vote nationwide, he could win the electoral vote and become President.

At the time I said it, I hadn't given it much thought. I said it mainly because I wanted to point out Sanders' advantage over her as a nominee. I wasn't completely serious, though it was obviously a possibility. Sometimes it's shocking to be right...

And that brings me to another point. Although some lower-income voters did turn to Trump in the Midwest (which was what won him the electoral college), far more simply stayed home, and some voted third party:


_"*3. Trump did not flip white voters in the Rust Belt who had supported Obama. Democrats lost them.*

Relative to 2012, Democrats lost 950,000 white voters in the Rust Belt 5 (-13 percent). This figure includes a loss of 770,000 votes cast by white men (-24.2 percent). Compare that number to the modest gains Republicans made in terms of white voters: They picked up only 450,000 whites (+4.9 percent).

Democrats also lost the black, indigenous, and other people of color (BIPOC) vote in the Rust Belt 5, with 400,000 fewer voters in this category (-11.5 percent). While disaggregated exit-poll data on BIPOC voters was inconsistently available across the five states we examined, in those places where numbers were available, Democrats saw losses among both black American and Latino voters. Importantly, some of the greatest losses in BIPOC votes were in states such as Ohio and Wisconsin, both of which adopted voter suppression laws beginning in 2012. But even in states with no such laws, such as Pennsylvania, BIPOC turnout was significantly lower this election cycle. In short, more people of color stayed home in the Rust Belt in 2016 than in 2012._


_*4. The real story—the one the pundits missed—is that voters who fled the Democrats in the Rust Belt 5 were twice as likely either to vote for a third party or to stay at home than to embrace Trump*.

Compared with 2012, three times as many voters in the Rust Belt who made under $100,000 voted for third parties. Twice as many voted for alternative or write-in candidates. Similarly, compared with 2012, some 500,000 more voters chose to sit out this presidential election. If there was a Rust Belt revolt this year, it was the voters’ flight from both parties.

In short, the story of a white working-class revolt in the Rust Belt just doesn't hold up, according to the numbers. In the Rust Belt, Democrats lost 1.35 million voters. Trump picked up less than half, at 590,000. The rest stayed home or voted for someone other than the major party candidates.

This data suggests that if the Democratic Party wants to win the Rust Belt, it should not go chasing after the white working-class men who voted for Trump. The party should spend its energy figuring out why Democrats lost millions of voters to some other candidate or to abstention. Exit polls do not collect information about why voters stay home. Perhaps it’s time someone asked them."





http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...2016/12/the_myth_of_the_rust_belt_revolt.html_

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## LA se Karachi

Desert Fox said:


> "We"? Who's this "we"? Didn't Bernie the fake commie chicken out to Hillary? So much for "feel the Berne" aye?





Desert Fox said:


> Bernie's not humble. The guy reeks of hypocrisy. What kind of "socialist" owns three homes, the latest one of which is $600,000?




He was a democratic-socialist, not a communist or a true socialist, you imbecile. They're not even remotely the same thing. There is no hypocrisy. I've explained this to you multiple times now. I suggest laughing a little less and doing a little more research. It will save you a lot wasted time in the future.

Most of his supporters that showed up to the polls voted for Clinton. So I'm not sure how he "chickened out", given that he followed the lead of his supporters.



Desert Fox said:


> Bernie's a conman who took $200,000,000 donations from his jobless supporters and still didn't even attempt to fight for them at the DNC like he promised.




Every post, you stoop lower and lower. Kudos, let's see how low you can go. You make most Trump supporters look bad.

The vast majority of Bernie's supporters were employed. And yes, he accepted donations (like every other candidate) for a campaign that changed the political landscape of America. He also showed that you don't need huge corporations to bankroll a campaign. He re-focused the attention of Democratic Party on economic issues and showed the vulnerabilities of candidates like Hillary. Particularly important lessons, given how the election turned out.

At the convention, all his hopes rested on super-delegates. They backed Hillary, and paid the ultimate price in the general election. There was nothing else he could do. It was up to the Democratic Party to make the right choice. Unfortunately, they failed.



Desert Fox said:


> I'm glad Bernie supporters got what they deserved.




Bernie Sanders is still a Senator, and has more influence than ever before, especially with the Clintons out of the way. Not to mention that Democrats will likely make a comeback thanks to a renewed focus on economic issues and President Trump (he's going to be a disaster).

You, on the other hand, will have to defend Trump for the next four years. Good luck with that. You're about to get what you deserve. These next few years are going to be so much fun for us Bernie supporters.

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## Zabaniyah

Damn, those guys look tough 

I'm confident that they can do a better job than than Obama's administration.


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## T-72

Interesting discussion, don't get triggered just because it's Jared Taylor and listen to the conversation.






@Desert Fox

@LA se Karachi you too bro, have a listen if you have the time, good to know what the enemy is talking about, right ?




------------------------------------------------------------------
another big league deplorable ideologue


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## Desert Fox

T-72 said:


>



Even if I disagree with his views, I'd still prefer Jared Taylor as my neighbor over the "tolerant" leftists/liberals. At least I won't have to fear for my physical safety.





T-72 said:


>


Wtf  "Children of the sun"?? Can't believe people take these guys seriously. 

Though I have to say they're still more civilized compared to the leftists/liberals who are sh!tting in the streets (literally, just look it up), beating people up for having different political views and burning down neighborhoods.

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## T-72

Desert Fox said:


> Even if I disagree with his views, I'd still prefer Jared Taylor as my neighbor over the "tolerant" leftists/liberals. At least I won't have to fear for my physical safety.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wtf  "Children of the sun"?? Can't believe people take these guys seriously.
> 
> Though I have to say they're still more civilized compared to the leftists/liberals who are sh!tting in the streets (literally, just look it up), beating people up for having different political views and burning down neighborhoods.


they've really shot themselves in the foot with all these years of "normalizing" far left attitudes toward conservative people and thought, haven't they ?

I agree, the neo nazi stuff is completely retarded, and no matter how Jared Taylor tries to blunt the knife, racism makes no sense. You're still going to have to deal with your share of these guys though, never in recorded human history have major demographic changes, the likes of which are predicted for America in the relatively short term (20-40 years), gone smoothly.


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## LA se Karachi

T-72 said:


> Interesting discussion, don't get triggered just because it's Jared Taylor and listen to the conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Desert Fox
> 
> @LA se Karachi you too bro, have a listen if you have the time, good to know what the enemy is talking about, right ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> another big league deplorable ideologue




Thanks. Although, just to be clear, I don't necessarily consider Trump to be the enemy. But these "alt-right" people are. It's unfortunate that he's given this small fringe-movement a place in politics, however small.

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## T-72

LA se Karachi said:


> Thanks. Although, just to be clear, I don't necessarily consider Trump to be the enemy. But these "alt-right" people are. It's unfortunate that he's given this small fringe-movement a place in politics, however small.


good to know, from what I understand of it, it's a very big umbrella with neo nazis etc being at the fringe of it, not front and centre.

I really like that the alt media, Alex Jones and Infowars in particular, now have serious credibility. The left used to love him when he went after Bush etc. He even had Gen Hamid Gul on a few times discussing Afghanistan and Bin Laden etc


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## LA se Karachi

T-72 said:


> good to know, from what I understand of it, it's a very big umbrella with neo nazis etc being at the fringe of it, not front and centre.




White nationalists are at the forefront of it though, even if most of them aren't quite neo-Nazis.



T-72 said:


> I really like that the alt media, Alex Jones and Infowars in particular, now have serious credibility. The left used to love him when he went after Bush etc. He even had Gen Hamid Gul on a few times discussing Afghanistan and Bin Laden etc




They don't have much credibility at all. Most people still don't even know who they are. Though they do have a larger following now due to increased exposure.

Alex Jones is nothing more than a lunatic loudmouth. The left never liked him, it was always the "alt-right", conspiracy theorists, and isolationists that liked him the most. Not everyone who disliked Bush was a liberal, many were conservative.


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## T-72

LA se Karachi said:


> White nationalists are at the forefront of it though, even if most of them aren't quite neo-Nazis.


It was interesting how Jones and a few others, who are not white nationalists, took on the mantle after crooked hilary's speech on the alt right. I thought it was a good move and helped take away the spotlight from the lesser known fringe crazies like Spencer's NPI who are a nasty bunch.

Didn't stop CNN from trying though.








LA se Karachi said:


> They don't have much credibility at all. Most people still don't even know who they are. Though they do have a larger following now due to increased exposure.
> 
> Alex Jones is nothing more than a lunatic loudmouth. The left never liked him, it was always the "alt-right", conspiracy theorists, and isolationists that liked him the most. Not everyone who disliked Bush was a liberal, many were conservative.


He's hit the big league now with Trump. 

I've been watching him for a while, their coverage has improved a lot, not so much nwo illuminati fema camps and fluoride water conspiracies anymore, he's gone more mainstream current affairs and politics. He's ok, a little crazy at times, but definitely not racist in any way.


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## LA se Karachi

T-72 said:


> It was interesting how Jones and a few others, who are not white nationalists, took on the mantle after crooked hilary's speech on the alt right. I thought it was a good move and helped take away the spotlight from the lesser known fringe crazies like Spencer's NPI who are a nasty bunch.


 

The "alt-right" is still dominated by people like Jared Taylor:






_"Jared Taylor of American Renaissance addresses the 2015 American Renaissance conference. He proposes two ideas that could change the United States from a country that threatens white survival to one that promotes it: recognize race differences in ability and temperament, and accept the tribal nature of man. He warns that for only so long can a nation deny the obvious."
_


T-72 said:


> He's hit the big league now with Trump.
> 
> I've been watching him for a while, their coverage has improved a lot, not so much nwo illuminati fema camps and fluoride water conspiracies anymore, he's gone more mainstream current affairs and politics. He's ok, a little crazy at times, but definitely not racist in any way.




He's still crazy:







But no, I don't think he's truly racist. Though he does believe that white people are "victims":

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## T-72

LA se Karachi said:


> He's still crazy:


lol, he does put on a show sometimes, its part of the act, he's not crazy, watch a full show sometime.



LA se Karachi said:


> But no, I don't think he's truly racist. Though he does believe that white people are "victims":


I'd like to watch the whole thing in context, not looped and edited clips. He's ok, and thanks to Trump winning, he's becoming mainstream, good stuff.  

here's him in 2013: 






but, we're going offtopic, the authorities don't like that these days.


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## LA se Karachi

T-72 said:


> lol, he does put on a show sometimes, its part of the act, he's not crazy, watch a full show sometime.




I've watched some before (even before this election cycle). He's a conspiracy theorist who holds some kooky beliefs.



T-72 said:


> I'd like to watch the whole thing in context, not looped and edited clips. He's ok, and thanks to Trump winning, he's becoming mainstream, good stuff.




It's not any better. He predictably refers to Bernie as a communist/socialist (he's not one) and makes it seem as if Bernie's economic platform was about welfare benefits, when it was obviously about income inequality.

He and his friend then go off on a bunch of conspiracy theories and tie in some completely unrelated issues:








T-72 said:


> but, we're going offtopic, the authorities don't like that these days.




Yes, somewhat. Let's agree to disagree on Alex Jones.

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## T-72

lol fallout in California  






@LA se Karachi

and where did the pizzagate thread go ?


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## LA se Karachi

T-72 said:


> lol fallout in California
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @LA se Karachi




I could post some videos of conservatives that are far worse. People have heated political/social conversations all the time. Not that these people represent the average Californian (they don't). The woman in particular seems a bit kooky. Even her friend tries to get her to leave. I assume they had all been drinking as well.

Try dressing up in traditional Muslim garb in some parts of the country (especially if you're a woman). See what happens.


We're really going off-topic now. 



T-72 said:


> and where did the pizzagate thread go ?




It's "awaiting moderation". I suspect it'll get posted eventually.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*House G.O.P. Signals Break With Trump Over Tariff Threat*

By JENNIFER STEINHAUER DEC. 5, 2016








Representative Kevin McCarthy, Republican of California and the majority leader, indicated that he would not support a plan to tax companies that move jobs overseas. Credit Al Drago/The New York Times
WASHINGTON — House Republican leaders signaled on Monday that they would not support President-elect Donald J. Trump’s threat to impose a heavy tax on companies that move jobs overseas, the first significant confrontation over the conservative economic orthodoxy that Mr. Trump relishes trampling.

“I don’t want to get into some kind of trade war,” Representative Kevin McCarthy, Republican of California and majority leader, told reporters in response to Mr. Trump’s threats over the weekend to seek a 35 percent import tariff on goods sold by United States companies that move jobs overseas and displace American workers.

Speaker Paul D. Ryan also pushed back against Mr. Trump on Monday in an interview with a Wisconsin reporter, saying an overhaul of the corporate tax code would more effectively keep companies in the United States than tax penalties. “I think we can get at the goal here,” he said, “which is to keep American businesses American, build things in America and sell them overseas — that can be properly addressed with comprehensive tax reform.”

Mr. Trump’s economic positions clashed with traditional conservatives during the campaign, but now these differences — on trade, government spending on infrastructure, and tax policies — have set the incoming president on a perilous course with the lawmakers whose support he needs to keep his agenda on track.

“There will be a tax on our soon to be strong border of 35 percent for these companies wanting to sell their product, cars, A.C. units etc., back across the border,” Mr. Trump said in a series of Twitter messages over the weekend.

The response from Republican leaders underscored the limits of legislating 140 characters at a time on Twitter, and gave Democrats cause to believe they can work with Mr. Trump to outmaneuver congressional Republicans next year.

“The president-elect won in part by campaigning against the Republican establishment on many economic issues,” said Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the incoming Democratic leader. “If he wants to get something done for working families in this country, he’ll have to stand up to them when it comes time to govern, too.”

Mr. Trump first startled Republicans during the campaign when he attacked trade deals, putting himself more in line with Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont than Mr. Ryan.

He repeatedly insisted that trade deals had displaced American workers and harmed the economy, upending two centuries of American economic policies that held trade up as a good thing, a position that Republicans have pushed in recent decades.

His positions helped imperil President Obama’s trade pact with Asian nations, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, and abruptly stop further trade negotiations, which many experts in both parties believe limits the United States in its economic position against China, especially when paired with tariff threats.

“I respect President-elect Trump for fulfilling his campaign promise to withdraw from T.P.P.,” Representative Kevin Brady, Republican of Texas and chairman of the powerful House Ways and Means Committee, said shortly after the election. “We can’t abandon these markets to China and other competitors, because American businesses and customers will lose out,” he added.

Mr. Trump made Republicans bend to his will — and against their long-held opposition to picking “winners and losers” in the economy — even before his inauguration when he announced last month that the Indiana-based air-conditioning manufacturer Carrier would keep roughly 1,000 jobs in the state rather than moving them to Mexico, thanks to $7 million in tax incentives negotiated by Vice President-elect Mike Pence, the current governor of Indiana.

This is the sort of package Republicans have traditionally loathed. The once intensely conservative Mr. Pence channeled the views of Mr. Sanders when he explained the Carrier deal by saying, “The free market has been sorting it out, and America’s been losing.”

Mr. Ryan and many other fiscal conservatives appeared to agree. “Everyone here knows what it means to lose jobs in their districts,” said Representative Tom Cole, Republican of Oklahoma. “If Trump can keep a thousand families from going through such an ordeal, then good for him. And if it makes other companies think twice about the human consequences of their business decisions, so much the better.”

But big tariffs appear too much to abide. Both Mr. Ryan and Senator Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky and the majority leader, supported a bill that gave Mr. Obama and his successor special “fast track” authority to negotiate trade agreements, and are proponents of reducing tariff barriers.

Photo




Speaker Paul D. Ryan has also pushed back against President-elect Donald J. Trump’s tariff idea. Credit Al Drago/The New York Times

“Tax cuts and deregulation will make the American economy great again, but tariffs and trade wars will make it tank again,” David McIntosh, president of the conservative group Club for Growth, said in a statement, adding, “The majority leader is right to caution against protectionism and to urge a robust debate on free markets and trade.”

House leaders want to tackle the problem of companies’ moving operations overseas with a broad rewriting of the corporate tax code, which they say will make American manufacturing more competitive without resorting to punitive measures on individual companies.

“Tough talk plays well with his base and is arguably even long overdue,” said Brian Walsh, a Republican consultant and former official at the National Republican Senatorial Committee. “But ultimately, the legislative focus will be on tax reform and deregulation versus tariffs and trade wars. I don’t believe Republicans will let a golden opportunity to finally pass comprehensive tax reform fall victim to intraparty squabbling.”

Republicans also fought mightily this week to remove a provision from a water bill favored by Democrats — and aligned with Mr. Trump’s campaign promises — that would require the use of American-made iron and steel for domestic water infrastructure projects. They said they feared the measure would direct federal funding to some domestic companies but not others.

Mr. Trump has long been a proponent of propping up the American steel industry, even though he has used imported steel for some of his building projects.

Next on the horizon could be a Medicare fight. Mr. Trump said during his campaign that threats to change the program caused his party to lose its bid for the White House in 2012, name-checking Mr. Ryan in his swipe.

Mr. Trump and Mr. Ryan are in patch-up mode at present, but how much that holds up remains to be seen.

Mr. Ryan has a proposal to transform the Medicaid program into a block grant and change the Medicare program so that Americans now under 55 would get a specified amount of money from the federal government toward the premium for private health coverage.

Mr. Trump has been inconsistent on the Medicare issue, and his choice for secretary of health and human services, Representative Tom Price, shares Mr. Ryan’s views.

_http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/u...ackage-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_
And so it begins...

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## T-72

LA se Karachi said:


> I could post some videos of conservatives that are far worse. People have heated political conversations all the time. Try dressing up in traditional Muslim garb in some parts of the country (especially if you're a woman). See what happens.
> 
> 
> We're really going off-topic now.


True, I've seen some of those too, this one just went viral. Posted a thread on some lady cop who was harassed in NY, do you think there is post Trump spike in these incidents or it's just everyday* hate crimes which are getting more attention now ?

*300 million plus, I'm sure a bunch of people act retarded on a daily basis.

not that off-topic, the new forum authority is learning on the job just like Mr Trump will.

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## LA se Karachi

T-72 said:


> True, I've seen some of those too, this one just went viral. Posted a thread on some lady cop who was harassed in NY, do you think there is post Trump spike in these incidents or it's just everyday* hate crimes which are getting more attention now ?




A bit of both. Hate crimes have risen in the past year. However, it wasn't an extreme increase. Not yet, anyway. But we'll see have to wait and see what happens after Trump takes office and there's a social flare-up or terrorist attack.



T-72 said:


> *300 million plus, I'm sure a bunch of people act retarded on a daily basis.




Very true. These craizies don't speak for most of us.



T-72 said:


> not that off-topic




Not anymore. 



T-72 said:


> the new forum authority is learning on the job just like Mr Trump will.




I like the job she's doing so far. I have a lot of faith in her. Trump, not so much...

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## T-72

Looks like he's expanding his search for secretary of state, that's the next really big one. 

http://www.businessinsider.in/Trump...keeps-getting-bigger/articleshow/55821696.cms

enter Mr. Exxon CEO 
http://www.wsj.com/articles/exxon-c...r-donald-trumps-secretary-of-state-1480878402

scary ? Trump spoke a lot about taking people's oil, Libyan oil in particular. "we'll put our great companies to work, they'll build the infra in no time... my advisors tell me Libyan oil is the best, just 2 feet below ground, its clean and beautiful" - paraphrasing, but he said something of the sort.

secrets leaker disgraced General Petraeus
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/12/05/david-petraeus-would-be-a-great-secretary-of-state/

no way, not after he went after crooked h the way he did. 

neoconman John Bolton 
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...tate-john-bolton-would-be-the-anti-john-kerry

and Romney, who everyone around him, and the people who voted for him, loathe. Trump might be toying around him just for lulz though, wouldn't put it past him.  

a somewhat dubious list of swamp creatures so far, don't know what to make of it. Rand Paul would be amazing but he's not in reckoning.


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## T-72

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/806134244384899072


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## T-72

Technogaianist said:


> Was it this one?
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/alleged-...-c-pizza-shop-after-hearing-fictional.465127/
> 
> I approved it this morning.


yes that was the one, I saw it pop up on the livebox and clicked to find it missing. 

also, way too many Trump stories lately, and they're not going to stop, we should get a _Trump transition _or _President elect Trump _sticky going for stuff like that tweet and other stuff. An American member should start one, anything fairly titled, just not like peacefan's fear mongering title. 

Until Jan 20 when we can get a President Trump thread, man, feels good to say that..  


President Trump.


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## RabzonKhan

This man is going to be Trump's national security adviser. 


*Flynn under fire for fake news

A shooting at a D.C. pizza restaurant is stoking criticism of the conspiracy theories being spread by Donald Trump’s pick for national security adviser.*

By BRYAN BENDER and ANDREW HANNA 12/05/16






Michael Flynn has used social media to promote a series of outrageous conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton, President Barack Obama and their inner circles in recent months. | Getty

*As Donald Trump’s national security adviser, retired Army Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn will have to advise the president of the veracity of foreign and domestic threats, separating those that require immediate policy action from propaganda or misinformation.*

*But Flynn himself has used social media to promote a series of outrageous conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton, President Barack Obama and their inner circles in recent months — pushing dubious factoids at least 16 times since Aug. 9, according to a POLITICO review of his Twitter posts.* Flynn, who has 106,000 Twitter followers, has used the platform to retweet accusations that Clinton is involved with child sex trafficking and has "secretly waged war” on the Catholic Church, as well as charges that Obama is a “jihadi”who “laundered” money for Muslim terrorists.

*Now some say Flynn’s fondness for spreading fake news casts doubt on his fitness to serve as the White House’s national security adviser, suggesting that he either can’t spot a blatant falsehood or is just ideologically bent to believe the worst of his perceived enemies.*

The flak began flying anew after Sunday’s shootingat a Washington pizza restaurant that had been targeted by false, internet-fed rumors accusing it of being the epicenter of a satanic child-trafficking conspiracy involving Clinton and her allies. Flynn had twice used Twitter to promote similar, only slightly less outrageous hoaxes in the past month, including a claim that Clinton’s campaign manager takes part in occult rituals in which bodily fluids are consumed.
Those were far from isolated tweets for Flynn, the former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency.

In the vast majority of instances in the past four months, he was passing along other people’s conspiratorial tweets instead of casting them in his own voice. In one example, he retweeted a post about a Fox News story claiming that the Army had identified Clinton as an “insider threat.” Another time, he reposted a tweet by someone named “Eagle Wings” about an alleged United Nations one-world-government plot called Agenda 21.

Trump himself has faced criticism for his use of social media to spread misinformation, including his evidence-free claim that “millions of people” had voted illegally in the Nov. 8 election. But this kind of rumor-mongering is especially beyond the pale for someone who will have the next president’s ear, said former State Department policy adviser Peter Singer, one of many people who publicly lambasted Flynn after Sunday's shooting.

*"We are not talking about policy toward China or Russia," Singer, now a national security strategist at the think tank New America, said in an interview Monday. "We are talking about some of the most bizarre conspiracy theories out there. We are down the rabbit hole. How can you take him seriously when he is discussing people in D.C. drinking human blood? It is exasperating.”*

Rep. Adam Schiff of California, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, said late Monday that while nobody was injured in the shooting, the conspiracy theories spread on social media had "come close to having deadly results."

“It is incumbent on Trump, his nominee for national security adviser, Gen. Flynn, and his entire team to disavow these falsehoods and conspiracy theories," Schiff said in a statement. "They will soon have a country to run, and God help us if they conduct the nation's affairs like their transition — without the willingness or ability to separate fact from fiction.”

*Singer and others stressed that the position of national security adviser, which does not require Senate confirmation, "is one of, if not the, most important national security roles."

"It is a role that has been occupied by a history of thoughtful and sober thinkers, whether you are right or left," he said.*

The adviser serves as the primary counselor to the president on defense and foreign matters, running a 400-person staff in the White House that acts as the filter for the Pentagon, the State Department and intelligence and other security agencies, as well as the implementer of the president's policy. *Well-known individuals who have held the post include Henry Kissinger, Colin Powell, Brent Scowcroft and Zbigniew Brzezinski.*

Even one of Flynn’s former military colleagues expressed puzzlement Monday at the dark turn his pronouncements on social media have taken.

"That is not typically the behavior of someone who needs the necessary sobriety to advise the president on the most critical matters facing the nation," said the former military official, who worked with Flynn every day for more than a year in Afghanistan.

"This is not the Mike Flynn I once knew," added the former military official, who asked not to be identified because he currently holds a government position. "While he was given to reacting on a gut, rather than fact, this represents a departure from the intellectual rigor he demanded of those around him."

Flynn did not respond to several requests to be interviewed for this story. The Trump transition office also did not respond to requests for comment.

But Graham Plaster, a retired Navy officer and one of Flynn's acolytes in military intelligence, defended the general's social media habits, contending that sharing false information doesn't necessarily mean he believes it.

"Anything that gets retweeted or shared is done casually," he said in an interview. "Anyone who assumed more than that is walking on ice. Twitter is a different context than reading a speech and in some cases things are taken out of context based on how limited the character count is. There is no opportunity to explain yourself."

*Still, calls grew on Monday for Trump to rethink his choice following the shooting at Comet Ping Pong, a family eatery and concert space that has been the center of the child sex ring hysteria. The restaurant's owner, James Alefantis, is a former romantic partner of pro-Clinton political activist David Brock, a longtime lightning rod for the right, according to The New York Times.*

*"While deserving respect for the time he has served our country in uniform, we feel General Flynn is unfit for serving in this critical post,” a collection of 53 organizations representing Muslim and other religious and human rights group wrote to Trump on Monday. “His appointment will damage America’s standing in the world and pose a threat to our national security."

While not referring specifically to the pizza conspiracy theory, the groups asserted that “General Flynn has repeatedly made Islamophobic statements and peddled anti-Muslim conspiracy theories,” including his much-noted comment early this year that “Fear of Muslims is RATIONAL.” The groups also pointed to a “blatantly anti-Semitic tweet” that Flynn apologized for in July, after he retweeted a post critical of CNN that included the words: “Not anymore, Jews.”*

The Obama White House took a swipe Monday at the traffic in conspiracy theories, without referring to Flynn by name.

"We all hold a responsibility, regardless of whether or not we are planning to serve in a government position or if one of our family members is planning to serve in a government position, that we shouldn't be propagating false things that could inspire violence," press secretary Josh Earnest told reporters when asked about the incident at the pizza restaurant. "There's probably some overlap with the golden rule there, I think somewhere, that may be worth considering."

Flynn didn't specifically promote the Comet Ping Pong rumors on Twitter, although he promoted related conspiracy theories that were nearly as lurid.

In one tweet Nov. 2, Flynn promoted a "MUST READ!" post from a website called True Pundit alleging that emails found on a laptop owned by former Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) — the husband of top Clinton aide Huma Abedin — contained enough evidence "to put Hillary [Clinton] and her crew away for life” for crimes including "child exploitation" and "sex crimes with minors."

"U decide," Flynn wrote. But no such emails have ever surfaced.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/794000841518776320
Two days later, Flynn posed a tweet containing the hashtag "#spiritcooking," a reference to a bizarre rumor alleging that Clinton's campaign manager, John Podesta, took part in occult rituals in which people consume blood and other bodily fluids. That rumor, based on a wild reading of some Podesta emails that had been released by WikiLeaks, also took off on websites such as the Drudge Report and InfoWars, run by Trump-supporting conspiracy theorist Alex Jones.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/794651828981993473
The "#spiritcooking" rumor soon morphed into the "#pizzagate" conspiracy theory involving Comet Ping Pong, which alleges that virtually the entire D.C. establishment — including the Clintons, Obama, law enforcement and the media — is involved with or covering up a satanic plot to traffic in, sexually abuse and murder children. The debunked allegations have led to death threats and harassment against the restaurant and others associated with Comet, including owners of neighboring businesses and indie musicians who play concerts in the pizzeria’s back room.

While Flynn never promoted the pizza rumors himself, his son Michael Flynn Jr. has done so directly, including Sunday night.

"Until #Pizzagate proven to be false, it'll remain a story," tweeted the younger Flynn, who has been working for his father's international consulting firm. "The left seems to forget #PodestaEmails and the many 'coincidences' tied to it."

While the Flynns are in the fake-news spotlight now, one author on the topic says the influence of conspiracy series in U.S. politics dates back to the American Revolution.

*"We have had many leaders in American history that have been conspiratorial in their thinking," said Joseph Uscinski, author of "American Conspiracy Theories" and a political science professor at the University Miami. "But we just don't know about it because they didn't have Twitter accounts."

Nonetheless, he said the trend can go too far, especially given Trump's own track record.

"If you have a conspiracy theorist in the White House, you probably don't need any more in the inner circle," Uscinski said.*

The former military officer who knows Flynn well suggested that his former boss may have a proclivity for misinformation because of his long career in secret intelligence. "He also fancies himself as someone who is skilled as manipulation of actual fact in order to affect movement downstream," the ex-officer said, recalling that the U.S. military strategy in Afghanistan included spreading false information through the media to see how it might affect the enemy.

"If this is another example of his willingness to manipulate information in order to have a specific end goal it would not be a complete departure, I suppose," the former officer said.

What is most disconcerting to some is the influence Flynn will soon have in the White House.

The national security adviser "is the nexus where all the tools of foreign and national security policy come together," said David Rothkopf, editor of Foreign Policy magazine and author of "Running the World: The Inside Story of the National Security Council and the Architects of American Power."

"This is the least experienced president in American history," Rothkopf added. "That means that his advisers are more important than they have ever been. Getting balanced advice to the president is more important than ever."

_Bob King contributed to this report. _*Link*

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## RabzonKhan

Desertfalcon said:


> It's not only highly unusual for such a recently retired general to be Defence Secretary but he will be teamed up with the new National Security Advisor who is also a general, Michael Flynn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Gen. James "mad dog" Mattis-USMC DefSec designee_


Trump, for a change, has made the right choice, Gen Mattis is the right man for the job, he knows what is going on in the Middle East (*Link*)….what the Russian are up to, and how important it is to win the Afghan war.

He is rightly called, a warrior, scholar and straight shooter.

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## T-72

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/806340792247795715


----------



## خره مينه لګته وي

*Michael G. Flynn. Photo: @mflynnJR / Twitter*

President-elect Donald Trump has reportedly fired a member of his transition staff for spreading a fake news story about an alleged child sex ring run by Hillary Clinton. The story led to an armed confrontation at a Washington DC pizzeria.

Michael G. Flynn, son of Trump’s national security adviser choice Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn, was let go by the president-elect on Tuesday, according to The New York Times.

Although it has not been officially confirmed what exactly led to Flynn’s dismissal, the newspaper cited two Trump transition officials who said it had to do with his role in spreading a fake news story which alleged that Hillary Clinton was running a child sex ring from the backrooms of Comet Ping Pong restaurant in Washington DC, a story which has been dubbed ‘Pizzagate.’

*READ MORE: Trump offers ‘Russia-loving’ Michael Flynn national security adviser post*

The fake news story led to a dangerous incident on Sunday, in which a man who believed the report began shooting inside the restaurant while _“self-investigating”_ the situation. The story has also led to the restaurant’s employees and other nearby business owners receiving death threats.

*Just hours after the Sunday incident – and despite law enforcement confirming that there is no investigation taking place regarding any sort of child sex ring at the restaurant – Flynn took to Twitter to say that “until Pizzagate [is] proven to be false, it’ll remain a story…”*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/805611056009768960
Flynn’s exact role in the transition team is a bit fuzzy. Despite reports that he had a team email address, Vice President-elect Mike Pence denied on Tuesday that Flynn had ever worked for the team, telling MSNBC’s Morning Joe program that he had _“no involvement in the transition whatsoever.”_
_

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/806119394451435520_
Transition spokesman Jason Miller, however, later contradicted Pence’s statement, confirming that Flynn had worked for the transition team but that he was no longer involved.

Meanwhile, CBS News has reported that Flynn was not fired, but rather offered his resignation before he could be dismissed – possibly seconds before – after realizing that he had become a distraction.

Flynn’s apparent sacking is the latest in an ongoing debate on how much fake news influenced the 2016 election, with US President Barack Obama expressing concern about its prevalence while speaking in Germany last month.

*Source : RT*


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## cloud4000

T-72 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/806134244384899072



It's for two aircraft. It has unique requirements, including withstanding a nuclear blast. Perhaps there is not enough gold plating to his taste. The man loves gold. His whole house is gold plated. He would gold plate his family too if it was possible.

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## T-72

cloud4000 said:


> It's for two aircraft. It has unique requirements, including withstanding a nuclear blast. Perhaps there is not enough gold plating to his taste. The man loves gold. His whole house is gold plated. He would gold plate his family too if it was possible.


lol, god forbid, but if any future Air Force One Boeing 747 is unfortunate enough to be in the way on a nuclear explosion, no two billion dollar gadget is going to be able to save it, _believe me._


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## CBU-105




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## RabzonKhan

Stephen Colbert started off by talking about the fake news epidemic, saying it's important to distinguish between real news, entertainment and fake stories. "I really hope you don't get your news from me because, news flash: This isn't news; this is entertainment," said Colbert. "Don't go to some anonymous guy on social media, because a lot of the news on social media is a lie."

Colbert then explained the conspiracy theory behind Pizzagate: that Hillary Clinton and John Podesta were running a child sex ring out of a Washington, D.C., pizza restaurant, smuggling children in and out of tunnels connected to a basement (even though the pizzeria has no basement). The fake news story then became a real-life problem when a man who said he was investigating the theory fired an assault rifle in the popular pizza store Comet Ping Pong. Luckily, nobody was injured.

"Apparently, some alt-right folks were combing through Clinton campaign emails hacked by Russia and published by WikiLeaks and noticed there seems to be more references to pizza and pizzerias than they had expected," said Colbert, "which can only mean one thing: secret sex ring."

*He said a lot of "uninformed, gullible people" fell for this conspiracy theory, including Donald Trump's national security adviser pick, Michael Flynn. Flynn tweeted a link to a story about the theory, telling his followers: "U decide."

"OK, then I decide a guy who spreads this bullshit shouldn't be in charge of national security," said Colbert, adding a sarcastic compliment to the Trump transition team for responding to this by firing Flynn's son, who also spread the story on social media.





*




The Daily Show - Making Sense of the Electoral College

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## Solomon2

RabzonKhan said:


> Stephen Colbert started off by talking about the fake news epidemic, saying it's important to distinguish between real news, entertainment and fake stories. "I really hope you don't get your news from me because, news flash: This isn't news; this is entertainment," said Colbert.


For the "we are not a reliable source" defense to work media outfits must use the same approach National Enquirer and similar print newspapers use: they are not allowed to print ANY items that are real news, it _all _has to be fake.

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## RabzonKhan

Good going, we're in good hands! 








*Trump picks Goldman Sachs banker to lead National Economic Council*

December 09, 2016  FoxNews

Cohn, 56, has worked at Goldman Sachs for more than two decades. If he accepts the post, he would have a major role in shaping Trump’s economic policy, which could include lowering corporate taxes and a shift in U.S. trade policy.

Leaving the Wall Street gig for a Washington one would require Cohn to leave his $21 million a year job as president and chief operating officer at Goldman Sachs.

*Trump’s pick of another Wall Street insider from Goldman Sachs is raising some eyebrows. The president-elect repeatedly vilified Goldman on the campaign trail. However, since winning the election, he has chosen three bank alumni to fill top spots in his administration. *

Steven Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary nominee, and Steve Bannon, Trump's chief strategist and senior counselor, also worked at Goldman Sachs. *Read more*











*Donald Trump’s Labor Pick Would Be Expected To Enforce A Law His Company Has Broken*

*Hardee’s once agreed to pay workers nearly $60,000 after running afoul of overtime law. Trump’s choice for labor secretary is head of that brand.*

*The Huffington Post*

President-elect Donald Trump named a fast-food chief executive to be the next labor secretary Thursday. If confirmed, Andrew Puzder ― the head of CKE Restaurants, which owns the Hardee’s and Carl’s Jr. burger chains ― would be responsible for enforcing the country’s labor laws and holding unscrupulous employers accountable.

Puzder apparently has some experience when it comes to wage law enforcement, albeit on the other side. According to a review of Labor Department records, Hardee’s Food Systems Inc., a subsidiary of CKE Restaurants, agreed to pay $58,000 in back pay to a group of 456 workers after a wage-and-hour investigation by the agency in 2006 and 2007. At the time, Puzder was head of CKE, which fully controlled Hardee’s Food Systems, according to financial disclosure forms.

Records indicate all the money was owed for overtime. Asked for more information on the case, the Labor Department would provide only limited details. The investigation was company-wide, and Hardee’s Food Systems had failed to include workers’ incentive bonuses when it computed overtime pay, making the payouts smaller than they should have been. The department does not say whether an investigation was initiated by the agency or resulted from a worker’s complaint. *Read more*

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## Devil Soul

*Russia ‘helped’ Trump win US election: CIA report*







WASHINGTON: A secret CIA assessment has found that Russia sought to tip last month´s US presidential election in Donald Trump´s favor, The Washington Post reported Friday, a conclusion that drew an extraordinary rebuke from the president-elect´s camp.

"These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction," Trump´s transition team said, launching a broadside against the spy agency.

"The election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history. It´s now time to move on and ´Make America Great Again.´"

The Washington Post report comes after President Barack Obama ordered a review of all cyberattacks that took place during the 2016 election cycle, amid growing calls from Congress for more information on the extent of Russian interference in the campaign.

The newspaper cited officials briefed on the matter as saying that individuals with connections to Moscow provided anti-secrecy website WikiLeaks with emails hacked from the Democratic National Committee, Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton´s campaign chief and others.

Those emails were steadily leaked out via WikiLeaks in the months before the election, damaging Clinton´s White House run.

The Russians´ aim was to help Donald Trump win and not just undermine the US electoral process, the paper reported.

"It is the assessment of the intelligence community that Russia´s goal here was to favor one candidate over the other, to help Trump get elected," the newspaper quoted a senior US official briefed on an intelligence presentation last week to key senators as saying. "That´s the consensus view."

CIA agents told the lawmakers it was "quite clear" that electing Trump was Russia´s goal, according to officials who spoke to the Post, citing growing evidence from multiple sources.

- Question marks -

However, some questions remain unanswered and the CIA´s assessment fell short of a formal US assessment produced by all 17 intelligence agencies, the newspaper said.

For example, intelligence agents don´t have proof that Russian officials directed the identified individuals to supply WikiLeaks with the hacked Democratic emails.

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has denied links with Russia´s government.

Those individuals were "one step" removed from the Russian government, which is consistent with past practices by Moscow to use "middlemen" in sensitive intelligence operations to preserve plausible deniability, the report said.

At the White House, Deputy Press Secretary Eric Schultz said Obama called for the cyberattacks review earlier this week to ensure "the integrity of our elections."

"This report will dig into this pattern of malicious cyberactivity timed to our elections, take stock of our defensive capabilities and capture lessons learned to make sure that we brief members of Congress and stakeholders as appropriate," Schultz said.

Obama wants the report completed before his term ends on January 20.

"We are going to make public as much as we can," the spokesman added. "This is a major priority for the president."

The move comes after Democrats in Congress pressed the White House to reveal details, to Congress or to the public, of Russian hacking and disinformation in the election.

On October 7, one month before the election, the Department of Homeland Security and the Director of National Intelligence announced that "the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of emails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations."

"These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process," they said.

Trump dismissed those findings in an interview published Wednesday by Time magazine for its "Person of the Year" award. Asked if the intelligence was politicized, Trump answered: "I think so."

"I don´t believe they interfered," he said. "It could be Russia. And it could be China. And it could be some guy in his home in New Jersey."

Worried that Trump will sweep the issue under the rug after his inauguration, seven Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee called on November 29 for the White House to declassify what it knows about Russian interference.

The seven have already been briefed on the classified details, suggesting they believe there is more information the public should know.

On Tuesday this week, leading House Democrats called on Obama to give members of the entire Congress a classified briefing on Russian interference, from hacking to the spreading of fake news stories to mislead US voters.

Republicans in Congress have also promised hearings into Russian activities once the new administration comes in.

- Russian interference in Germany -

Obama´s homeland security advisor Lisa Monaco said the cyber interference goes back to the 2008 presidential race, with both the Obama and John McCain campaigns hit by malicious computer intrusions.

Russian hacking and election interference have also become a big issue in Germany.

On Thursday, Germany´s domestic intelligence agency BfV issued a stark warning over a rising Moscow-directed campaign of hacking and misinformation directed at "destabilizing" the country and influencing political discourse.

Last week, WikiLeaks published stolen documents on intelligence activities that embarrassed Chancellor Angela Merkel just as she began campaigning for elections slated for late 2017.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

very Pakistani election


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## vtnsx

Another fake news article. The losers really don't believe Trump is the winner and more witty than they are. They just simply couldn't believe how stupid they are. If Trump is stupid, he wouldn't be a Billionaire.

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## ptldM3

Obama and Clinton were scolding and mocking Trump for suggesting that elections could be rigged and so were liberals. Now the dumb liberals are crying and complaining while throwing around conspiracy theories and wanting recounts.

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## CBU-105

Giridhardas the clown and others get pwnd on MSNBC panel, watch till the end..





zing 

@Desert Fox @LA se Karachi @Nilgiri

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## RabzonKhan

Interesting, but I'm not surprised at all, I knew this was coming, 

“that plays great before the election, now we don't care, right” Trump responds to a “lock her up” chant from his supporters at a rally in Michigan. 

Remember, this was one of the main promises he made to his supporters and used to whip his campaign rallies into frenzy.


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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> Interesting, but I'm not surprised at all, I knew this was coming,
> 
> “that plays great before the election, now we don't care, right” Trump responds to a “lock her up” chant from his supporters at a rally in Michigan.
> 
> Remember, this was one of the main promises he made to his supporters and used to whip his campaign rallies into frenzy.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 359184


lol, another 2 second clip followed by a panel discussion on the Clinton News Network.  

Someone should tell these idiots that they lost, big league. CNN is fake news, the MSM is in their last throes, Trump should block them from flying on Air Force 1 and take Infowars, Breitbart and other real media along on his trips instead.


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## RabzonKhan

CBU-105 said:


> lol, another 2 second clip followed by a panel discussion on the Clinton News Network.
> 
> Someone should tell these idiots that they lost, big league. *CNN is fake news*, the MSM is in their last throes, Trump should block them from flying on Air Force 1 and* take Infowars*, Breitbart and other real media along on his trips instead.


A person, who gets his news from inforwars, should be the last person to call others idiots. And what was “fake” in that news clip? CNN is a million times more credible than that inforwars run by a lying maniac.

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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> A person, who gets his news from inforwars, should be the last person to call others idiots. And what was “fake” in that news clip? CNN is a million times more credible than that inforwars run by a lying maniac.


*Washington (CNN)Hillary Clinton's odds of winning the presidency rose from 78% last week to 91% Monday before Election Day, according to CNN's Political Prediction Market.*

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/07/politics/political-prediction-market-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/  

I don't "get my news" from Infowars, just good fun sticking it to people now. 

About this CNN "news" though, what do you think he should do, appoint that special prosecutor and really go after her ? Such a move will destabilize the US, that kind of thing is best left to dysfunctional middle east regimes etc. 

Trump won, and now wants to get on with the job, wtf are these crooked hillary shills trying to accomplish with their retarded *"haha, he's not going to lock her up, he's a liar"* bs now ?


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## FalconsForPeace

Looking forward to some evidence regarding this. Trump favors Russia a lot, so we will see some kind of help.


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## somebozo

it looks like America never emerged out of cold war obsession...and if Russia can go as far as impacting American elections..it simply speaks of the failing US state.

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## xyxmt

Russian have learned to Play American games.

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## RabzonKhan

Excellent news, Trump has been denying that Russia had played a role in the elections, in an interview with Fox news, he called the allegation against Russia as “ridiculous”, describing the claim as another “excuse” pushed by the Democrats to explain his upset victory.

But clearly, it looks like that his own Republican party has snubbed him. Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell held a news conference to announce bipartisan Senate probe of suspected Russian election interference. *Link*





‘The Russians Are Not Our Friends’ Mitch McConnell Comments on Russian Hacking.

Also, a bipartisan group of four senators is requesting for Congress to take closer look at allegations that Russia used cyberattacks to try to influence the American election. 

U.S. Senators John McCain (R-AZ), Chairman of the Senate Committee on Armed Services, Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Member of the Senate Committee on Armed Services, Charles E. Schumer (D-NY), Senate Democratic Leader-elect, and Jack Reed (D-RI), Ranking Member of the Senate Committee on Armed Services released the following joint statement today in response to news reports on the CIA’s analysis of Russian interference with the 2016 election:
Link






CBU-105 said:


> *Washington (CNN)Hillary Clinton's odds of winning the presidency rose from 78% last week to 91% Monday before Election Day, according to CNN's Political Prediction Market.*
> 
> http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/07/politics/political-prediction-market-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/


Did you even bother to read what you posted, most probably not, CNN's political prediction market is an online GAME, which allows Internet users to predict the outcome of the election, now, keep on laughing.

"CNN's Political Prediction Market is an online game administered by the company Pivit, which functions like an online market and allows Internet users to predict the outcome of the 2016 election. *It is not to be confused with polls from real voters."* *Link *



> About this CNN "news" though, what do you think he should do, appoint that special prosecutor and really go after her ? Such a move will destabilize the US, that kind of thing is best left to dysfunctional middle east regimes etc.
> 
> Trump won, and now wants to get on with the job, wtf are these crooked hillary shills trying to accomplish with their retarded *"haha, he's not going to lock her up, he's a liar"* bs now ?


That is not the point, the point is that throughout the election campaign, we were told by Trump and his supporters that he was not like the corrupt politicians who make false promises…..he says what he means, blah, blah, blah.

Of course, he cannot “lock her up” because he has no authority to do so and he knew that but he was only fooling the people with his BS.

Yes, he was elected for four years, but that does not mean he got a blank check, we are a democracy and we have a right to criticize our government, criticism, is part and parcel of our democracy.

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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> That is not the point, the point is that throughout the election campaign, we were told by Trump and his supporters that he was not like the corrupt politicians who make false promises…..he says what he means, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> Of course, he cannot “lock her up” because he has no authority to do so and he knew that but he was only fooling the people with his BS.
> 
> Yes, he was elected for four years, but that does not mean he got a blank check, we are a democracy and we have a right to criticize our government, criticism, is part and parcel of our democracy.


so now when he's telling his supporters to calm down when they chant 'lock her up' is a broken campaign promise because he's a liar ? lol

He or the republicans could appoint a special prosecutor to look into her situation if more e-mails are uncovered, why not ? 

Criticism is all well and fine, healthy even, but with Trump it's just over the top insanity, like cnn (fake news) and you complaining about him not locking her up. 



RabzonKhan said:


> Excellent news, Trump has been denying that Russia had played a role in the elections, in an interview with Fox news, he called the allegation against Russia as “ridiculous”, describing the claim as another “excuse” pushed by the Democrats to explain his upset victory.
> 
> But clearly, it looks like that his own Republican party has snubbed him. Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell held a news conference to announce bipartisan Senate probe of suspected Russian election interference. *Link*


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-intelligence-idUSKBN14204E?il=0


----------



## shadows888

xyxmt said:


> Russian have learned to Play American games.



Putin is a mad genius, i bet he barely spent 10 billion on RT, Sputniknews, and hacking etc. (which may or may not happen, we probability won't know the truth for a while). But right now, in the USA, there's a political civil war going on because of trump's election. Didn't help that he lost the popular vote.

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## WaLeEdK2

The CIA also reported of WMDs in Iraq. CIA nor any American intelligence agency has any credibility. There is such a thing is fake proof as demonstrated at the UN prior to the 2003 invasion. Disgusting.


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## CBU-105

Anyone see the Trump Sunday special on Fox ? Clearly there are factions within the CIA, Trump referred to them as 'their people', and that his administration will be replacing them with their own picks. Remember that John Brennan was also one of the chief architects of the Ukraine mess, a lot of people are going to get


----------



## XenoEnsi-14

BEEP ....... BEEP ....... BEEP ....... BEEP ....... BEEP ....... BEEP ........ BEEP ....... BEEP ....... BEEP.................



The sound of President Trump.


----------



## CBU-105

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> BEEP ....... BEEP ....... BEEP ....... BEEP ....... BEEP ....... BEEP ........ BEEP ....... BEEP ....... BEEP.................
> 
> 
> 
> The sound of President Trump.


is he going to explode ? 




-----------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Desertfalcon

The thread title doesn't match the info in the OP. I have no doubt that the Russians hacked....but did it help Trump win? Nah. It was not the Russians that caused Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, or Michigan to vote for him. It was decades of politicians in Washington that didn't give a crap about America's white working class. Trump did.


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## Rafael

4 halqay khulnaye chaaiye, 4 halqay!


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## XenoEnsi-14

CBU-105 said:


> is he going to explode ?


Sputnik.


----------



## Valar Dohaeris

*The Republican leader announces Rex Tillerson's name to serve as the top diplomat of the US.*

US President-elect Donald Trump on Tuesday formally announced Exxon-Mobil Corp chairman and CEO Rex Tillerson as his nomination to serve as US Secretary of State.

"His tenacity, broad experience and deep understanding of geopolitics make him an excellent choice for Secretary of State," the Republican leader said in a statement released by his transition team on Tuesday.

"He will promote regional stability and focus on the core national security interests of the United States."


More soon.


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## Chinese-Dragon

The oligarchy.


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## CBU-105

they're trying to kill him !


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## CBU-105

he's back  












"offered them 5 cents on the dollar for their fireworks but never heard back" - President Trump takes the piss on crooked hillary's yuge 7 million $ fireworks display that they had planned. 

man, did he ever Trump that bitch.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Elon Musk and the chief executive of Uber are now advising Donald Trump

Travis Kalanick, the chief executive of Uber, and Elon Musk, the chief executive of Tesla, will “meet with the president frequently” and offer their expertise to Trump as part of his Strategic and Policy Forum, Trump officials said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...the-ceo-of-uber-are-now-advising-donald-trump

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## Gothic

Of course Elon Tusk can only advance his sci fi projects under non other than Trump


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## jha

Why would he choose a businessman as Secretary of State ? Baffling.

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## CBU-105

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Elon Musk and the chief executive of Uber are now advising Donald Trump
> 
> Travis Kalanick, the chief executive of Uber, and Elon Musk, the chief executive of Tesla, will “meet with the president frequently” and offer their expertise to Trump as part of his Strategic and Policy Forum, Trump officials said.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...the-ceo-of-uber-are-now-advising-donald-trump


the best capitalists and the most tremendous minds. 

srsly though, he is putting together a formidable cabinet with all those generals, Tillerson is another big step toward peace and better ties with Russia (hopefully).

how about Kanye earlier ? lol, redemption for KW, the crazies in his life/entourage put him in the loony bin for being pro Trump but here he was






stuff like this could go a long way in busting the leftist propaganda about Trump being a racist etc, nice 1.


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## T-72



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## maximuswarrior

It is meant to be a heartfelt appeal from some of the US's most recognisable faces.

Actors Martin Sheen and Debra Messing are joined by a host of other celebrities - including musician Moby - to ask Republican electors to not cast their vote for President-elect Donald Trump on 19 December.

The argument put forward in the Unite for America clip is simple - Mr Trump is not fit to be president of the United States, and therefore members of the Electoral College should block his entry to the White House.

"Our founding fathers built the Electoral College to safeguard the American people from the dangers of a demagogue and to ensure that the presidency only goes to someone who is, to an eminent degree, endowed with the requisite qualifications," Sheen explains in the video.

*Celebrity power*

Mr Trump, the celebrities continue, is not "highly qualified for the job" - and therefore the electors could, and should, prevent him from taking office.

In theory, the Electoral College could do this: It would take 37 Republican electors to vote for someone other than Mr Trump - thereby taking the party under the 270-vote threshold necessary for victory - to technically block his path to the White House.

It is the latest stance taken by celebrities against Mr Trump's impending leadership. Others have been less direct - designers refusing to dress future First Lady Melania Trump, or rejecting offers to sing at the inauguration.

In stark contrast to his predecessor Barack Obama, only one A-list celebrity - Kanye West - has publicly endorsed Mr Trump since his election.

But in reality, how much does any of this matter - and how effective is such a direct plea to a group of Republicans?

If you believe the New York Daily News, not very.

"This video of celebs pleading with the Electoral College is why Hillary Clinton lost," the newspaper's website proclaimed in a headline.

Mrs Clinton did have a lot of celebrity supporters - on election night, actress Lena Dunham, singer Lady Gaga and comedian Amy Schumer were all in New York to support the Democrat they hoped would become the first female US leader.

They had all been vociferous campaigners for Mrs Clinton, as had Beyonce, whose plea to fans to vote for Mrs Clinton has had 2.4 million views to date.

In comparison, Mr Trump failed to attract any huge stars to support his campaign.

Yet Mr Trump won - suggesting celebrity endorsements do not have huge sway over voters.

Indeed, a study of possible voters in Ohio by professors Melissa Miller and David Jackson, both of Bowling Green State University, found that celebrity endorsements are potentially the opposite of helpful.

Writing in The Daily Beast, Mr Jackson revealed: "None of the celebrities [given as possible endorsers in the study] showed a net positive effect, and four of them showed double-digit net negative effects."

What's more, this election has taken a swipe at the so-called liberal elite - and nowhere is the elite more liberal than in Hollywood.

Oprah Winfrey may be credited with playing a major role in Barack Obama's 2008 election, but a quick glance at the response on Twitter to the Unite for America video shows there is no appetite for the 1% to lecture the majority on how they should vote.

"You stick to pretending to be somebody else," wrote one. "Nobody gives the rear end of a rodent what you and your pampered friends think."

Another tweeted: "Y'all prove one thing. being a so-called educated intellectual doesn't mean you have common sense."

Meanwhile, a meme mused whether celebrities were more upset about the election result, of "finding out people don't give a **** about their opinions".

And despite the odd tweet praising them for being a "glimmer of hope in an era of hopelessness", even fellow liberals have questioned the point of such a video.

So with a backlash against celebrities, it seems highly unlikely their doom-laden words will sway Republican electors on Sunday.

There is, of course, one huge irony in all of this: Mr Trump has, arguably, only been elected to the highest office in the land because he is a celebrity.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38340115


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## Hassan Guy



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## maximuswarrior



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## cloud4000

Celebrities couldn't get Clinton elected, so what influence do they have over the electors? Close to zero.

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## maximuswarrior

cloud4000 said:


> Celebrities couldn't get Clinton elected, so what influence do they have over the electors? Close to zero.



They don't have influence, but it does reveal how hostile and divided the US has become. A country that has been sowing division in other lands for decades is finally the victim of its own ploy.


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## TheNoob

Those corporates must have paid a hefty amounts.
Everyone knows Celebrities have no brain of their own.


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## Desertfalcon

_"Celebrity opinions" 





_

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## Hamartia Antidote

There are HUNDREDS of celebrities and they only got a handful.

The ONLY way Trump could be unseated is if all of Hillary's DEMOCRAT electors (who have nothing to lose) vote for a REPUBLICAN like Mitt Romney and convince some of the Trump electors to go along with it.

If they really want him out they should be sending a message to the Democrat electors to vote for Romney instead of pandering for Hillary.


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## LA se Karachi

maximuswarrior said:


> A country that has been sowing division in other lands for decades is finally the victim of its own ploy.




Good grief. And you think only Indians have a distorted view of the world....



maximuswarrior said:


> They don't have influence, but it does reveal how hostile and divided the US has become.




It's not hostile. That's absurd, come visit sometime. It has always been politically divided at the Presidential level. Perhaps more so this year than in years past. The truth is, though, that Americans liked neither candidate. 

Also, I would suggest focusing on your own country right now. It seems pretty divided too. At least Trump is a fake. The same cannot be said about Geert Wilders.

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## T-72

LA se Karachi said:


> Good grief. And you think only Indians have a distorted view of the world....


hey, 1.2 billion of us, not a monolithic group... #notall...  




--------------------------------------


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## LA se Karachi

T-72 said:


> hey, 1.2 billion of us, not a monolithic group... #notall...




Oh, l know. I wasn't implying that all Indians think that way. I was just responding to an otherwise rational member, who sometimes loses his mind when it comes to America.

I was pointing out that he was doing the same thing some Indians do to Pakistan. In his mind, America seems to be some sort of devil, while other countries are all angels, I suppose. No other country has ever gotten involved with the internal affairs of others.


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## T-72

LA se Karachi said:


> just responding to an otherwise rational member, who sometimes loses his mind when it comes to America.


otherwise rational ? all I see are foaming at the mouth posts at everything to do with India, the US, Israel, and white men wtf.. he's an insecure little prick for the most part as far as I can tell.

also, yaay, new Ben Garrison art:

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## ultron



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## Desertfalcon

I think they would rather meet their new 'First Lady'.


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## gambit

Desertfalcon said:


> _"Celebrity opinions"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


Just like how the average Americans dismissed the media and Leftist politicians and voted for Trump, they pretty much have ignored celebs and their hipocrisy regarding climate change.

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## Desert Fox

@T-72 @Nilgiri sorry guys, was a bit busy so hadn't logged in for a while.

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## Desert Fox

Lol @T-72 and @Nilgiri according to NPR more electors tried to defect from Hillary Clinton than Trump:

http://www.npr.org/2016/12/19/50618...cure-electoral-college-win-with-few-surprises

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## T-72

welcome back

yup, they've completely lost it.


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## Desertfalcon

The Electoral Collage confirmed Trump's election so they will move on to their next idiotic scheme.

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## CBU-105

grumpy white nationalists bitching about Trump's swamp creature cabinet picks






and the pendulum swings again, progressives will find a few areas of agreement with the alt-right here


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## CBU-105

interesting talk


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## Nilgiri

@Desert Fox Hope you are well

Just for you my friend 

http://ipatriot.com/hillarys-election-night-meltdown-revealed/

The most recent account of Hillary’s election night meltdown was forwarded to us by a secondary source of IPatriot’s. He’s not shy, mind you, but church talk would say…he’s humble.



As described by our “friend”, election night was like _The Wizard of Oz, _*complete with the witch melting down* to nothing after being splashed with water, screaming,* “AHHHH….what a world…what a world!”*



As we* fact-checked the story*, we found that a* similar version of the election night episode had been published*by_ American Spectator_ and _Breitbart,_ both credible news sources and so, here is what we received.



*Hillary Clinton’s post election celebration plans included hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of fireworks,* live performances by various celebrities, such as Cher, who came believing that Hillary was going to win the election, *a five-hundred-thousand-dollar special effect glass ceiling* that she would break through in a dramatic display once she walked out on stage at her H.Q., among millions of dollars worth of other celebratory preparations, *all paid for by the Clinton Foundation in full.*



The most notable damage was located deep in the VIP room of the Clinton camp. A custom 150 inch ultra HD TV, _a gift from the Saudi Arabian government_, was found with a broken screen. The *damage was caused by a $950,000 bottle of champagne that was believed to have been thrown at the screen by the former presidential candidate* some time during the election.



Early in the morning, the custodial staff were greeted by flipped-over tables as the floors were covered with expensive food, drinks, and appetizers. Broken champagne flutes and gilded silverware were also seen scattered around the would-be party room.



*The most telling sign of a massive meltdown was the cake.* The pastry that had once proudly displayed the presidential seal, was violently flung against the walls in chunks. A broken topper from the cake in the shape of the white house was discovered lodged firmly into the drywall near the dessert table.



Clinton ’s splurge on party supplies was merely an echo of all the left-leaning polls and hype that “confirmed” Hillary Clinton’s indubitable win. Misled by just about every prediction, Hillary Clinton personally planned one big party for her assumed victory. Once it became clear that it would not be Clinton ‘s night, however, the mood of the party soured rapidly.



A former staffer, who was fired during the rampage, said that the atmosphere around Clinton went from “queen of the hour” to “the girl who was dumped on prom night” in only a few moments.<



Hillary Clinton reportedly became *“physically violent” towards her own campaign staff* after she realized she had lost the presidential election, according to radio host Todd Kincannon. “CNN reporter tells me Hillary became physically violent towards Robby Mook and John Podesta around midnight; had to be briefly restrained,” tweeted Kincannon.



It was Podesta who was sent out to talk to Hillary’s dejected supporters shortly before Hillary called Donald Trump to concede, with Clinton nowhere to be seen until the following day.



When asked about rumors that Hillary was drunk on election night, Kincannon responded, “She was. I posted about that too. *She was in a “psychotic drunken rage”* according to my reporter friend. A doctor added sedatives to the mix.”



Kincannon then claimed that *CNN blocked the reporter from publishing what would have been a bombshell story.* “The CNN reporter didn’t fail to report it. His editors will not let him. CNN has banned all “Hillary in the bunker” stories,” he tweeted.



Secret Service officials and other staff who worked closely alongside Hillary have previously reported her problems with angry tantrums on numerous occasions. Last year it was also reported that Clinton ’s own campaign staffers feared she could have a serious meltdown and that Hillary had “been having screaming, child-like tantrums that have left staff members in tears and unable to work.”



In addition to claims that she became irate, author Ed Klein said a source told him *Hillary cried inconsolably to a friend after the results came in, blaming FBI director Comey and President Barack Obama for not doing enough to stop the FBI investigation into her email scandal.*



Having spent time in D.C. and in The West Wing where I talked with Hillary staffers I was told that Hillary, like a wicked queen, forbid staff members from making any eye contact with her in the hallways. Indeed when they did see her coming they could not look at her, and had to duck behind a pillar or anything else so as not to be seen by her. These and other things revealed to me makes this story seem perfectly plausible.



And to think that this is the woman we might have referred to as: Madame President. Phew! Thank you Lord.

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## CBU-105

Nilgiri said:


> Clinton’s post election celebration plans included hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of fireworks


Trump joked he offered them 5 cents on the dollar for the fireworks


----------



## Nilgiri

CBU-105 said:


> Trump joked he offered them 5 cents on the dollar for the fireworks


Yup he used that line in a lot of his thank you rallies....along with the polling on person vs man of the year.

Its been a great end of year for me heh. And next year is only going to get better.

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## padamchen

Nilgiri said:


> @Desert Fox Hope you are well
> 
> Just for you my friend
> 
> http://ipatriot.com/hillarys-election-night-meltdown-revealed/
> 
> The most recent account of Hillary’s election night meltdown was forwarded to us by a secondary source of IPatriot’s. He’s not shy, mind you, but church talk would say…he’s humble.
> 
> 
> 
> As described by our “friend”, election night was like _The Wizard of Oz, _*complete with the witch melting down* to nothing after being splashed with water, screaming,* “AHHHH….what a world…what a world!”*
> 
> 
> 
> As we* fact-checked the story*, we found that a* similar version of the election night episode had been published*by_ American Spectator_ and _Breitbart,_ both credible news sources and so, here is what we received.
> 
> 
> 
> *Hillary Clinton’s post election celebration plans included hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of fireworks,* live performances by various celebrities, such as Cher, who came believing that Hillary was going to win the election, *a five-hundred-thousand-dollar special effect glass ceiling* that she would break through in a dramatic display once she walked out on stage at her H.Q., among millions of dollars worth of other celebratory preparations, *all paid for by the Clinton Foundation in full.*
> 
> 
> 
> The most notable damage was located deep in the VIP room of the Clinton camp. A custom 150 inch ultra HD TV, _a gift from the Saudi Arabian government_, was found with a broken screen. The *damage was caused by a $950,000 bottle of champagne that was believed to have been thrown at the screen by the former presidential candidate* some time during the election.
> 
> 
> 
> Early in the morning, the custodial staff were greeted by flipped-over tables as the floors were covered with expensive food, drinks, and appetizers. Broken champagne flutes and gilded silverware were also seen scattered around the would-be party room.
> 
> 
> 
> *The most telling sign of a massive meltdown was the cake.* The pastry that had once proudly displayed the presidential seal, was violently flung against the walls in chunks. A broken topper from the cake in the shape of the white house was discovered lodged firmly into the drywall near the dessert table.
> 
> 
> 
> Clinton ’s splurge on party supplies was merely an echo of all the left-leaning polls and hype that “confirmed” Hillary Clinton’s indubitable win. Misled by just about every prediction, Hillary Clinton personally planned one big party for her assumed victory. Once it became clear that it would not be Clinton ‘s night, however, the mood of the party soured rapidly.
> 
> 
> 
> A former staffer, who was fired during the rampage, said that the atmosphere around Clinton went from “queen of the hour” to “the girl who was dumped on prom night” in only a few moments.<
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton reportedly became *“physically violent” towards her own campaign staff* after she realized she had lost the presidential election, according to radio host Todd Kincannon. “CNN reporter tells me Hillary became physically violent towards Robby Mook and John Podesta around midnight; had to be briefly restrained,” tweeted Kincannon.
> 
> 
> 
> It was Podesta who was sent out to talk to Hillary’s dejected supporters shortly before Hillary called Donald Trump to concede, with Clinton nowhere to be seen until the following day.
> 
> 
> 
> When asked about rumors that Hillary was drunk on election night, Kincannon responded, “She was. I posted about that too. *She was in a “psychotic drunken rage”* according to my reporter friend. A doctor added sedatives to the mix.”
> 
> 
> 
> Kincannon then claimed that *CNN blocked the reporter from publishing what would have been a bombshell story.* “The CNN reporter didn’t fail to report it. His editors will not let him. CNN has banned all “Hillary in the bunker” stories,” he tweeted.
> 
> 
> 
> Secret Service officials and other staff who worked closely alongside Hillary have previously reported her problems with angry tantrums on numerous occasions. Last year it was also reported that Clinton ’s own campaign staffers feared she could have a serious meltdown and that Hillary had “been having screaming, child-like tantrums that have left staff members in tears and unable to work.”
> 
> 
> 
> In addition to claims that she became irate, author Ed Klein said a source told him *Hillary cried inconsolably to a friend after the results came in, blaming FBI director Comey and President Barack Obama for not doing enough to stop the FBI investigation into her email scandal.*
> 
> 
> 
> Having spent time in D.C. and in The West Wing where I talked with Hillary staffers I was told that Hillary, like a wicked queen, forbid staff members from making any eye contact with her in the hallways. Indeed when they did see her coming they could not look at her, and had to duck behind a pillar or anything else so as not to be seen by her. These and other things revealed to me makes this story seem perfectly plausible.
> 
> 
> 
> And to think that this is the woman we might have referred to as: Madame President. Phew! Thank you Lord.



Hmmmmm. Sounds weirdly kinky. There must have been a seamier ending to that night ....


----------



## CBU-105

Nilgiri said:


> Yup he used that line in a lot of his thank you rallies....along with the polling on person vs man of the year.
> 
> Its been a great end of year for me heh. And next year is only going to get better.


The cultural aspect of Trump's win is probably what is panicking the liberals most, what a death blow to out of control feminism and political correctness, couldn't have come at a better time. 

#tremendous

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## CBU-105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/812450976670121985

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## CBU-105

I really like this guy's political commentary, have a listen, people.. 

@LA se Karachi @Nilgiri @RabzonKhan @Desertfalcon @Beidou2020 @jha et all

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## Desertfalcon

CBU-105 said:


> I really like this guy's political commentary, have a listen, people..
> 
> @LA se Karachi @Nilgiri @RabzonKhan @Desertfalcon @Beidou2020 @jha et all


Yup, much truth in what he says. It proves the quip that if you go "Right far enough, you will run into the "Left". I am far enough "Right", that I agree with him on most of what he says.


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## CBU-105




----------



## Solomon2

*

*
*HOW GEORGE SOROS DESTROYED THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY*
*The Left ultimately destroys itself.*
December 28, 2016

Daniel Greenfield






[George Soros]
_
Daniel Greenfield, a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the Freedom Center, is a New York writer focusing on radical Islam._

It was the end of the big year with three zeroes. The first X-Men movie had broken box office records. You couldn’t set foot in a supermarket without listening to Brittney Spears caterwauling, “Oops, I Did It Again.” And Republicans and Democrats had total control of both chambers of legislatures in the same amount of states. That was the way it was back in the distant days of the year 2000.

In 2016, Republicans control both legislative chambers in 32 states. That’s up from 16 in 2000.

What happened to the big donkey? Among other things, the Democrats decided to sell their base and their soul to a very bad billionaire and they got a very bad deal for both.

*It was 2004. The poncho was the hottest fashion trend, there were 5 million new cases of AIDS and a former Nazi collaborator had bought the Democrat Party using the spare change in his sofa cushions.*

*And gone to war against the will of the people. This was what he modestly called his own “Soros Doctrine”.*

“It is the central focus of my life,” George Soros declared. It was “a matter of life and death.” He vowed that he would become poor if it meant defeating the President of the United States.

Instead of going to the poorhouse, he threw in at least $15 million, all the spare change in the billionaire’s sofa cushions, dedicated to beating President Bush.

In his best lisping James Bond villain accent, Soros strode into the National Press Club and declared that he had “an important message to deliver to the American Public before the election” that was contained in a pamphlet and a book that he waved in front of the camera. Despite his “I expect you to die, Mr. Bond” voice, the international villain’s delivery was underwhelming. He couldn’t have sold brownies to potheads at four in the morning. He couldn’t even sell Bush-bashing to a roomful of left-wing reporters.

But he could certainly fund those who would. And that’s exactly what he did.

Money poured into the fringe organizations of the left like MoveOn, which had moved on from a petition site to a PAC. In 2004, Soros was its biggest donor. He didn’t manage to bring down Bush, but he helped buy the Democratic Party as a toy for his yowling dorm room of left-wing activists to play with.

Soros hasn’t had a great track record at buying presidential elections. The official $25 million he poured into this one bought him his worst defeat since 2004. But *his money did transform the Democrat Party.*

*And killed it.*

Next year the Democracy Alliance was born. A muddy river of cash from Soros and his pals flowed into the organizations of the left. Soros had helped turn Howard Dean, a Vermont politician once as obscure as this cycle’s radical Vermont Socialist, into a contender and a national figure. Dean didn’t get the nomination, but he did get to remake the DNC. Podesta’s Center for American Progress swung the Democrats even further to the left. And it would be Podesta who helped bring Hillary down.

*The Democrats became a radical left-wing organization and unviable as a national political party. The Party of Jefferson had become the Party of Soros.* And only one of those was up on Mount Rushmore.

Obama’s wins concealed the scale and scope of the disaster. Then the party woke up after Obama to realize that it had lost its old bases in the South and the Rust Belt. The left had hollowed it out and transformed it into a party of coastal urban elites, angry college crybullies and minority coalitions.

Republicans control twice as many state legislative chambers as the Democrats. They boast 25 trifectas , controlling both legislative chambers and the governor’s mansion. Trifectas had gone from being something that wasn’t seen much outside of a few hard red states like Texas to covering much of the South, the Midwest and the West.

The Democrats have a solid lock on the West Coast and a narrow corridor of the Northeast, and little else. The vast majority of the country’s legislatures are in Republican hands. The Democrat Governor’s Association has a membership in the teens. In former strongholds like Arkansas, Dems are going extinct. The party has gone from holding national legislative majorities to becoming a marginal movement.

And *the Democrats don’t intend to change course. *The way is being cleared for Keith Ellison, the co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus with an ugly racist past, to head the DNC. Pelosi will oversee the disaster in the House. And *Obama will remain the party’s highest profile national figure.*

There could hardly be a clearer signal that the left intends to retain its donkey herding rights. Soros and his ilk have paid for the reins. That is why Pelosi, with her access to donors, will retain her position.

The left had recreated the Democrat Party and marginalized it. Much of this disaster had been funded with Soros money. Like many a theatrical villain, the old monster had been undone by his own hubris. Had Soros aided the Democrats without trying to control them, he would have gained a seat at the table in a national party. Instead he spent a fortune destroying the very thing he was trying to control.

George Soros saw America in terms of its centers of economic and political power. He didn’t care about the vast stretches of small towns and villages, of the more modest cities that he might fly over in his jet but never visit, and the people who lived in them. Like so many globalists who believe that borders shouldn’t exist because the luxury hotels and airports they pass through are interchangeable, the parts of America that mattered to him were in the glittering left-wing bubble inhabited by his fellow elitists.

Trump’s victory, like Brexit, came because the left had left the white working class behind. Its vision of the future as glamorous multicultural city states was overturned in a single night. The idea that Soros had committed so much power and wealth to was of a struggle between populist nationalists and responsible internationalists. But, in a great irony, Bush was hardly the nationalist that Soros believed. Instead Soros spent a great deal of time and wealth to unintentionally elect a populist nationalist.

*Leftists used Soros money to focus on their own identity politics obsessions leaving the Dems with little ability to interact with white working class voters. *The Ivy and urban leftists who made up the core of the left had come to exist in a narrow world with little room for anything and anyone else. 

Soros turned over the Democrats to political fanatics least likely to be able to recognize their own errors. His protégés repeated the great self-destruction of the Soviet Union on a more limited scale

*Soros fed a political polarization while assuming, wrongly, that the centers of power mattered, and their outskirts did not. *He was proven wrong in both the United States of America and in the United Kingdom. He had made many gambles that paid off. But his biggest gamble took everything with it.

"I don’t believe in standing in the way of an avalanche," Soros complained of the Republican wave in 2010.

But he has been trying to do just that. And failing.

"There should be consequences for the outrageous statements and proposals that we've regularly heard from candidates Trump and Cruz," Soros threatened this time around. He predicted a Hillary landslide.

He was wrong.

As Soros plowed more money into the left, its escalating radicalism alienated more of the country. Each “avalanche” was a reaction to the abuses of his radicals. It wasn't Trump or Cruz who suffered the consequences. It wasn't even his own leftists. Rather it was the conservative and eventually the moderate wings of the Democrat party who were swept away by his left-wing avalanches.

*The left did not mourn the mass destruction of the moderates. Instead it celebrated the growing purity of the Democrats as a movement of the hard left. It did not notice or care that it was no longer a political force outside a limited number of cities. It anticipated that voters would have no choice but to choose it over the "extremist" Republicans.*

*It proved to be very, very wrong.*

George Soros spent a fortune to turn a national party favorable to the left into an organization that has difficulty appealing to anyone not on the left. He wanted to control a country he did not understand. And, as the left so often does, he achieved his goals and in doing so destroyed them.

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## CBU-105

The Young Turds year in review:

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## Hamartia Antidote

*"Happy New Year to all, including to my many enemies and those who have fought me and lost so badly they just don't know what to do. Love!"* Trump

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## CBU-105



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## Nilgiri

CBU-105 said:


>



Just fookin A+ perfect haha

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## CBU-105

Nilgiri said:


> Just fookin A+ perfect haha


Alex and Infowars going full legit, and gaining big league credibility is one of the best things to have come out of the election.  

I've watched the guy for 5 or 6 years now, I always thought he was cool even if a bit ott at times.

watch infowars for spicy 'murrican right wing news, and TyT for goofy left wing news, and that bust up at the RNC was epic.

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## CBU-105

*President Trump*

55:17Video duration: 55:17 Aired: 01/03/17 

FRONTLINE examines the key moments that shaped President-elect Donald Trump. Interviews drawn from The Choice 2016 with advisors, business associates and biographers reveal how Trump transformed himself from real estate developer to reality TV star to president. 

http://www.pbs.org/video/2365924612/

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## CBU-105

CBU-105 said:


> http://www.pbs.org/video/2365924612/



good fear ****, yes ? @LA se Karachi 

ominous score, slow down + crop people's faces, the narrator guy.. 

also extremely funny is how CNN and MSNBC are now doing interviews with neoconmen John McCain and Lindsey Graham to prove how the evil Russians helped steal it from crooked hillary. 

the msm, as we've know them, are finished.

random interesting new media interview here:














Infowars are also cool, I'd kill for a Dave Rubin/Alex Jones interview.


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## RabzonKhan

*




*

*DONALD TRUMP’S ALARMINGLY TRUMPIAN TRANSITION*

By John Cassidy January 4, 2017

With the House Republicans reversing themselves (temporarily, perhaps) on gutting the Office of Congressional Ethics, and Megyn Kelly jumping from Fox News to NBC News, the 2017 political-news cycle began with a bang on Tuesday. But there was no getting away from the story that overwhelms all others: in sixteen days, Donald Trump will become the forty-fifth President of the United States. Outside the Trump family and the alt-right, is there anyone who didn’t shudder a little as the ball dropped in Times Square on Saturday night?

*There have long been serious doubts, even among members of his own party, about Trump’s suitability for any public office, let alone the Presidency. His opponents in the Republican primary described him as a “*con artist*” (Marco Rubio), a “*delusional narcissist*” (Rand Paul), a purveyor of dangerous falsehoods (John Kasich), and a *descendant of Joseph McCarthy* (Lindsey Graham). When President Obama *suggested*, last August, that Trump “doesn’t have the judgment, the temperament, the understanding” to be President, many senior Republicans privately agreed with him.*

*If there were people expecting that Trump would use the lengthy interregnum between Election Day and Inauguration Day to offer reassurances about what lies ahead, he has gone out of his way to disabuse them. For the past two months, he has spent his time publicly congratulating himself on his victory (while greatly exaggerating its scale) and taunting those he defeated; putting together a Cabinet of conservative ideologues, billionaires, and generals; blithely dismissing calls for him to divest his business interests; and—this almost every day—running his mouth on Twitter. In short, it has been a distinctly Trumpian transition.*

Perhaps, as the _Times’_ David Brooks has suggested, we should regard Trump’s online efflorescences as nothing more than perishable Snapchat messages or Baudrillardian simulacra. It is a challenge, though, to be cavalier about a President-elect one day issuing menacing statements about North Korea’s pursuit of nuclear weapons and the next day publicly trashing the intelligence services whose job it will be to inform him about nuclear proliferation and other global dangers. Evidently, Trump doesn’t think he needs much professional advice: he already regards himself as an expert on foreign-policy issues, including nuclear negotiations.

And he’s just days away from gaining access to codes that could be used to launch a nuclear attack within minutes—a prospect that has many Americans and citizens of other countries unnerved. The Ploughshares Fund, a venerable arms-control organization, has circulated a petition urging Obama to take U.S. nuclear missiles off high alert before he leaves office. “It’s too late to stop Donald Trump from becoming president,” Joe Cirincione, the president of the Fund, wrote recently. “But it is not too late to stop him from impulsively blowing up the planet.”

To be sure, other men who were ill-qualified, ethically challenged, or potentially unhinged have occupied the Oval Office during the Republic’s long history. John Tyler and Millard Fillmore, two mid-nineteenth-century Whigs, are sometimes cited in the first category. During the nineteen-twenties, Warren G. Harding brought the stench of corruption right into the West Wing, where he played poker with his cronies from Ohio, some of whom were busy enriching themselves at federal expense. And, when it comes to addled Presidents, we have the accounts that have been handed down of Richard Nixon as the Watergate scandal reached its climax—brooding, cursing, drinking heavily, driven to the edge of madness.

But historical comparisons to Trump only go so far. Tyler and Fillmore, the tenth and thirteenth Presidents, were both experienced politicians who were serving as Vice-Presidents when their bosses died. (Tyler had been the governor of Virginia and also represented the state in the U.S. Senate. Fillmore was a former chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee.) Although Harding’s name will forever be associated with the Teapot Dome scandal, which involved the secret leasing out of federal oil reserves, he wasn’t accused of lining his own pockets. Nixon, a Shakespearean figure racked by personal insecurities, was also an intelligent man blessed with great powers of concentration. According to Arthur Burns, the economist he appointed to head the Federal Reserve, Nixon could have “held down a chair in political science or law in any of our major universities.”

Trump, then, is sui generis_. _He has no experience in elected office—in these demented times, that was part of his popular appeal. His reputation as a hugely successful businessman has little basis in fact, as does his claim of being worth ten billion dollars. Until he launched his Presidential campaign, in which he showed some genuine skill as a rabble-rouser, his talents had lain in attracting other people’s money, promoting himself in the media, and playing a role on reality television—the role of Donald Trump, the great dealmaker.

*If Trump has any ethics, they are self-serving ones. In his business dealings, he has a record of chiselling suppliers; bankrupting public companies; and operating a private outfit, Trump University, that recently settled charges that it was little more than a scam designed to part Americans of modest means from their savings. For many years, it seems, Trump exploited a loophole in the tax code to *avoid paying any federal taxes*. At times, he has associated with alleged mobsters and shadowy foreign businessmen, *including rich Russians* who have invested in some of his real-estate projects. (On this, *a lengthy article in _The American Interest_* gathers much of what can be gleaned from public filings and court records.) Although Trump poses as a champion of the common man, he is a prime exemplar and beneficiary of oligarchical capitalism.*

*He is also, as he displayed many times over the past year and a half, an inveterate bully who views the world almost exclusively in terms of winning and losing. Tony Schwartz, who ghostwrote Trump’s book “The Art of the Deal,” which helped define Trump’s public brand, has *described him* as a compulsive liar and a sociopath. Trump’s history of denigrating minorities, inciting racial fears, promoting birtherism, and boasting about sexually assaulting women surely doesn’t need recounting, but one lesser-known incident is perhaps worth recalling. In 2000, after some family members went to court and challenged his father’s will, *Trump cut off health coverage* to a nephew’s young son who was suffering from a chronic neurological disorder that caused violent seizures and brain damage. Asked by the *_*Times*_* why he took this action, he said, “I was angry because they sued.”*

This is the man about to join the lineage of Washington, Lincoln, and Roosevelt. In the coming days and weeks, some cynical Republican leaders who have made their self-serving peace with Trump will put on a show of support for him and claim that all is proceeding normally. Obama himself, whether out of a desire to go by protocol or in the hope of exercising some restraining influence, has so far avoided making any public criticisms, even though Trump has shown little sign of heeding the advice Obama offered a few days after the election, when he said, “There are going to be certain elements of his temperament that will not serve him well, unless he recognizes them and corrects them. Because when you’re a candidate and you say something that is inaccurate or controversial, it has less impact than it does when you’re President of the United States.”

Come two weeks from Friday, Trump will be in that position. It is to be fervently hoped that, as Obama predicted in November, entering the Oval Office will awaken Trump to the reality and enormousness of the responsibilities he faces and change the way he behaves. Such a possibility can’t be entirely discounted, I suppose. But, at this stage, does anybody really believe it will happen?

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## LA se Karachi

CBU-105 said:


> good fear ****, yes ? @LA se Karachi
> 
> ominous score, slow down + crop people's faces, the narrator guy..
> 
> also extremely funny is how CNN and MSNBC are now doing interviews with neoconmen John McCain and Lindsey Graham to prove how the evil Russians helped steal it from crooked hillary.
> 
> the msm, as we've know them, are finished.
> 
> random interesting new media interview here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infowars are also cool, I'd kill for a Dave Rubin/Alex Jones interview.




Well, that's Frontline's style---ominous and dramatic. I enjoy it personally. I think that they make some of the best documentaries out there.
But Trump is such a goofy/brash character that the style clashes. 

The mainstream media isn't going anywhere though. There is new media, but that is being primarily driven by young people. As a result, most of it is left-leaning.

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## CBU-105

LA se Karachi said:


> Well, that's Frontline's style---ominous and dramatic. I enjoy it personally. I think that they make some of the best documentaries out there.
> But Trump is such a goofy/brash character that the style clashes.


I've seen a few frontline shows, those were generally dealing with heavy stuff like wars etc, imo it's a bit of a shame they put Trump's win in there.

eh, the style clashes ?






yes he's goofy and brash and a potty-mouth and has been caught being crass at times, but Adolf Hitler he's not. This was the sort of documentary you'd expect an enemy state to make about the US President. This was also apparently just clips from an episode called the choice, which aired back in September or something, part 2 airs post inauguration on the 24th, looking fwd to it.



LA se Karachi said:


> The mainstream media isn't going anywhere though. There is new media, but that is being primarily driven by young people. As a result, most of it is left-leaning.


There's a few good right leaning ones too, not talking about the spicy right like infowars, regular right of centre, people who make good points and talk sense, Cenk and Jones are the 2 extremes.

the msm are on their way out, and not specifically to do with the horrible coverage of Trump, people in general have been moving away from cable, the big talking heads on 9 pm shows don't wield the same power they used to, and many feel online is where they get the real news.

Imagine if Trump gives his first big interview post assuming office to infowars, it could happen.


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## CBU-105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/817348644647108609

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/817350726800306177
lol


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## CBU-105

posted this in the Syrian War thread, worth sharing here too


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## LA se Karachi

CBU-105 said:


> I've seen a few frontline shows, those were generally dealing with heavy stuff like wars etc, imo it's a bit of a shame they put Trump's win in there.




Well it is a serious topic, whether one supported him or not. Also, his campaign and election to the Presidency is a bit of a "heavy" topic to some of us. 



CBU-105 said:


> This was the sort of documentary you'd expect an enemy state to make about the US President.




Lol, that's a bit of an exaggeration. Frontline did take a critical approach towards Trump and his campaign. But there is a lot to question, whatever your politics.



CBU-105 said:


> the msm are on their way out, and not specifically to do with the horrible coverage of Trump, people in general have been moving away from cable, the big talking heads on 9 pm shows don't wield the same power they used to, and many feel online is where they get the real news.




True, but they'll still be here. They're just shifting from print and television to online. The MSM still do the most of the actual _reporting_ in the country. Other sources feed of their news reports and write their own articles or commentary.

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## CBU-105

LA se Karachi said:


> Well it is a serious topic, whether one supported him or not. Also, his campaign and election to the Presidency is a bit of a "heavy" topic to some of us.


ok, fair enuff

but this is the president of the US, the bad vibes they're all casting around it is surreal.



LA se Karachi said:


> Lol, that's a bit of an exaggeration. Frontline did take a critical approach towards Trump and his campaign. But there is a lot to question, whatever your politics.


no it's not, it was very dark and scarily themed, unnecessarily so.

and sure, he should be held up for scrutiny but to the same standard as 44 and 43 etc were, "hitler" is way over the top, and we've seen plenty of that from everything from the NyT, WaPo, and other "reputable" print media as well as on CNN, MSNBC, FOX (when the right wingers had rabid guests on for sake of ratings etc).. they did everything they could to get crooked hillary elected and still lost.

this one is going down in lore, they'll be writing songs about it a hundred years from now. 



LA se Karachi said:


> True, but they'll still be here. They're just shifting from print and television to online. The MSM still do the most of the actual _reporting_ in the country. Other sources feed of their news reports and write their own articles or commentary.


they're finished and on a slow decline to zero, just like print media. Their whole format is outdated, other people, and with a _lot _fewer resources are doing a whole lot better reporting as well as with their commentary on msm reported stories, and people are smart, they'll sift through the piles and find the good stuff.

Dave Rubin is probably going to be very big in the future, one to watch out for, for sure.

also, you seem to be a very reasonable guy, I want to ask you a question, so give me an 'official' statement on your position, like frame it in a few sentences and give me the meat/crux/essence etc.

as a muslim? (I'm guessing) immigrant from Pakistan, what is your worst case scenario ? and does being a "minority" even figure in your analysis of Trump ? basically, do you just dislike the guy for saying some of the things he's said or maybe you always thought he was an asshole or are there specific policy positions you have a problem with ?

as a not US citizen watching this from a fair distance, I don't care about any of his domestic policies (the wall, taxes, guns, gays, abortion or whathaveyou)

so for me, and just purely from a US foreign policy pov, I see _a lot of good and common sense_ in what he's said so far, and based on that, I'm really positive on the whole thing and a big fan of the guy, but I'll switch sides in a hurry if he continues to arm and fund the so called rebels in Syria and starts new wars and so on. 

and did you watch that last secular talk vid I posted ? big league Syrian war truth bombs.

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## RabzonKhan

It is crystal-clear that the Russians tried to undermine our democracy, and now even Trumpanov accepts that they were involved in the hacking, though he is still denying that they intervened in the election to help him win, SAD.

Unfortunately, the fact is, the enemies would not have succeeded if we had an intelligent and informed voters.








*The key findings from the US intelligence report on the Russia hack, decoded*

Updated by Zack Beauchamp

Late Friday afternoon, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) released a declassified version of its report on Russia’s interference in the US presidential election. The report, which draws on intelligence gathered by the FBI, CIA, and NSA, concludes with “high confidence” that “Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election” that included hacking the personal email accounts of Democratic Party officials and political figures.

*According to the report, Putin’s aim was to impugn Hillary Clinton’s credibility and boost Donald Trump’s chances of winning the election, and more broadly to make the US electoral system look shady and untrustworthy.*

Much of this has already been reported publicly. But there are some key findings in this report, such as the precise nature of the link between WikiLeaks and the Russian hackers, that hadn’t been disclosed before.

Here’s a guide to the report — its most important findings and, in particular, the new and important disclosures it contains.

*All three intel agencies agree that Putin personally ordered the hack, and that the goal was to help Trump

*
The ODNI report states conclusively that Putin _personally_ ordered the email hacks of Democratic Party officials as part of a broader campaign to influence the US election in Trump’s favor. This seems to have sprung, in part, from Putin’s paranoia concerning perceived US attempts to undermine his government.

*The report explains that Putin was incensed about a series of scandals that embarrassed his government, such as the Panama Papers leak, which revealed (among other things) a secret $2 billion account held by Putin personally. The Russian hacking campaign was designed in part to throw a similar kind of dirt on the United States, which he held responsible for his embarrassment.*

“Putin publicly pointed to the Panama Papers disclosure and the Olympic doping scandal as US-directed efforts to defame Russia, suggesting he sought to use disclosures to discredit the image of the United States and cast it as hypocritical,” the ODNI report states.

The campaign was designed to disproportionately target Clinton, whom Putin saw as a threat — he blamed her, in particular, for the 2011 anti-government protests in Russia. So the “consistent goals” of the influence campaign, the report says, were “to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency.”

*As time went on, however, the Russian campaign shifted — evolving into an attempt not just to hurt Clinton but to outright elect Trump. The Kremlin, according to the report, saw Trump as potential ally — someone with the right policy views and the right dealmaking disposition.

“Putin has had many positive experiences working with Western political leaders whose business interests made them more disposed to deal with Russia, such as former Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder,” the report’s authors explain.*

There’s an interesting diversion at this point in the report. The CIA and FBI conclude that the hack was designed to help Trump “with high confidence,” whereas the NSA does so only with “moderate confidence.” This is a little hint as to the sources for this report’s conclusions.

*The CIA and the FBI rely more on “human intelligence” — that is, spies talking to sources. The NSA is responsible for what’s called “signals intelligence”: electronic intercepts, email surveillance, and so forth. This suggests that one of the report’s main conclusions — that the goal was to elect Trump — is based less on technical analysis and more on information American spies gleaned from their sources.*

Then, as the election got closer and closer and a Trump victory looked less and less likely, Russian aims shifted again — becoming a campaign aimed at weakening a future Clinton administration.

It seems the Kremlin was just as surprised as the rest of the world when Trump won — and, indeed, thrilled. CNN and the Washington Post reported that the classified version of the report includes quotes from leading Russian officials celebrating on the night of Trump’s victory. They were, in the Post’s telling, “congratulating themselves.”

*Russia gave the information to WikiLeaks *

The ODNI report clears up one key source of confusion about Russia’s efforts: how WikiLeaks got involved.

*We knew before this report that Russia was behind the hack of thousands of private emails from Clinton allies. We also knew that WikiLeaks published a huge number of those same emails. What we didn’t know is how the stolen emails got from the Russian hackers to WikiLeaks.*

*The report sheds some light on that question. It suggests that agents of Russia’s military intelligence service, the GRU, specifically chose WikiLeaks to be the outlet for much of its disclosures — and handed off the information to the organization.*

*“We assess with high confidence that the GRU relayed material it acquired from the DNC and senior Democratic officials to WikiLeaks,” the ODNI writes. “Moscow most likely chose WikiLeaks because of its self proclaimed reputation for authenticity.”*

This fits with what we knew publicly but directly contradicts WikiLeaks chief Julian Assange’s recent assertion that “our source is not the Russian government.” Which makes it seem like either the intelligence community’s assessment as well as the publicly available evidence are both way off base or Assange is lying.

*There’s a third option, though: that the Russian agents hid their identity from Assange, using a fake persona — Guccifer 2.0, an allegedly Romanian hacker who is, in all likelihood, a front for Russian intelligence — as a cutout. The ODNI report, in one sentence, kind of suggests that’s what happened (though the sentence is hard to parse):*

“We assess with high confidence that Russian military intelligence (General Staff Main Intelligence Directorate or GRU) used the Guccifer 2.0 persona and DCLeaks.com to release US victim data obtained in cyber operations publicly and in exclusives to media outlets and relayed material to WikiLeaks,” the report says.

Whether or not that interpretation is right, it’s quite clear from the report that US intelligence believes the Russian military intelligence service is WikiLeaks’ source. This was always the most likely scenario, and now we’ve got the ODNI report to back it up.

*Russian trolls were ready to delegitimize Clinton if she won*
The email hacks, according to ODNI, were only one part of a broader disinformation campaign targeting the US election.

“Moscow’s influence campaign followed a Russian messaging strategy that blends covert intelligence operations — such as cyber activity — with overt efforts by Russian Government agencies, state-funded media, third-party intermediaries, and paid social media users or ‘trolls,’” the report explains, in what might be the first ever use of the word “trolls” in an official ODNI report.

*One of the most interesting little tidbits about these Russian social media trolls is what they were planning to do in the event of a Clinton victory. According to ODNI, Russia’s social media operatives were primed to launch a massive propaganda campaign aimed at undermining the legitimacy of the election — playing into Trump’s theme that the election was “rigged.”*

*“Before the election, Russian diplomats had publicly denounced the US electoral process and were prepared to publicly call into question the validity of the results,” the report explains. “ProKremlin bloggers had prepared a Twitter campaign, #DemocracyRIP, on election night in anticipation of Secretary Clinton’s victory, judging from their social media activity.”*

Trump won, of course, so this plan never came to fruition. Official Moscow shut up after Trump’s victory, wanting to maximize its influence with its preferred president.

*“Putin, Russian officials, and other pro-Kremlin pundits stopped publicly criticizing the US election process as unfair almost immediately after the election because Moscow probably assessed it would be counterproductive to building positive relations,” ODNI writes.*

*RT is way more important than we think*

The ODNI report focuses, to an almost surprising degree, on RT — the Kremlin’s international, English-language propaganda media outlet. The report contains several striking observations about RT’s reach, message, and proximity to the Russian government.

For instance, RT videos get more YouTube views than many other prominent, mainstream media outlets (though it’s possible these numbers are goosed):






The report also reveals that top staff at RT’s bureaus are very, very close to the Kremlin: The head of RT's Arabic-language service, Aydar Aganin, was transferred from Russia’s diplomatic service to manage RT's Arabic-language expansion, suggesting a close relationship between RT and Russia's foreign-policy apparatus.

In addition, the report states that RT's London Bureau is managed by Darya Pushkova — the daughter of Aleksey Pushkov, the current chair of the Russian State Duma’s foreign affairs committee and a former speechwriter for former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev.

According to the report, RT — as well as Sputnik, another Russian government–funded English-language propaganda outlet — began aggressively producing pro-Trump and anti-Clinton content starting in March 2016. That just so happens to be the exact same time the Russian hacking campaign targeting Democrats began.

During the 2016 campaign, RT aired a number of weird, conspiratorial segments — some starring WikiLeaks’ Julian Assange — that cast Clinton as corrupt and funded by ISIS and portrayed the US electoral system as rigged.

Interestingly, the ODNI report also describes RT programming that promoted stories intended to benefit Russian economic interests — including what the report terms “anti-fracking programming.”

“This is likely reflective of the Russian Government's concern about the impact of fracking and US natural gas production on the global energy market and the potential challenges to Gazprom's profitability,” the report states. Gazprom is a huge Russian government-owned oil and gas company.

All of this makes it crystal clear that Russian information ops go way beyond just hacking — and that media outlets like RT and Sputnik are major elements of their US-focused propaganda campaign.

*This is the beginning, not the end*

The report concludes on an ominous note.

*Given the success of Russia’s hacking and information campaign in the 2016 election, the ODNI expects that Putin will try to run a similar playbook in future democratic elections — in both the United States and worldwide.*

“We assess the Russian intelligence services would have seen their election influence campaign as at least a qualified success because of their perceived ability to impact public discussion,” ODNI writes.

In fact, as the report explains, a new round of hacking began the day after the election:

*Immediately after Election Day, we assess Russian intelligence began a spearphishing campaign targeting US Government employees and individuals associated with US think tanks and NGOs in national security, defense, and foreign policy fields. This campaign could provide material for future influence efforts as well as foreign intelligence collection on the incoming administration’s goals and plans.*

In conclusion, Russia really did try to influence the 2016 US election — and there’s every reason to expect it will try again when the 2020 campaign kicks off.









CBU-105 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/817348644647108609
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/817350726800306177
> lol


Just shows what a cheap and vindictive nasty man he is, as many of us have been saying that he is not a presidential material, his petty tweets prove our point, of course, for foreigners it may be, “lol” but many Americans are disturbed with his childish behavior.

Does this man even realize that he has been elected President of the United States, only 13 days have left before he is sworn in as the 45th President of United States, instead of focusing his energies on important domestic and international issues he’s wasting his time on petty tweets.

One good example, how about, he stopped skipping important intelligence briefing!? *Link*

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> It is crystal-clear that the Russians tried to undermine our democracy, and now even Trumpanov accepts that they were involved in the hacking, though he is still denying that they intervened in the election to help him win, SAD.
> 
> Unfortunately, the fact is, the enemies would not have succeeded if we had an intelligent and informed voters.



We should be thankful that US is a republic and not a democracy. Democracy to me means mob rule. I can only imagine what damage Trump would cause in a parliamentary system. 



RabzonKhan said:


> Just shows what a cheap and vindictive nasty man he is, as many of us have been saying that he is not a presidential material, his petty tweets prove our point, of course, for foreigners it may be, “lol” but many Americans are disturbed with his childish behavior.
> 
> Does this man even realize that he has been elected President of the United States, only 13 days have left before he is sworn in as the 45th President of United States, instead of focusing his energies on important domestic and international issues he’s wasting his time on petty tweets.
> 
> One good example, how about, he stopped skipping important intelligence briefing!?



If Trump continues on this path, he won't last long. For now, he's a novelty, but in time he'll be pilloried for wasting everyone's time with such nonsense. The mid-term election will be a good indicator of his progress.

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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> Just shows what a cheap and vindictive nasty man he is, as many of us have been saying that he is not a presidential material, his petty tweets prove our point, of course, for foreigners it may be, “lol” but many Americans are disturbed with his childish behavior.
> 
> Does this man even realize that he has been elected President of the United States, only 13 days have left before he is sworn in as the 45th President of United States, instead of focusing his energies on important domestic and international issues he’s wasting his time on petty tweets.
> 
> One good example, how about, he stopped skipping important intelligence briefing!? *Link*


He's just trolling the media, toying with them. 

skipping briefings is no biggie when he's surrounded by people who are getting briefed daily, not like he can do anything till he takes office anyway, so for now he's busy building a cabinet.



RabzonKhan said:


> It is crystal-clear that the Russians tried to undermine our democracy, and now even Trumpanov accepts that they were involved in the hacking, though he is still denying that they intervened in the election to help him win, SAD.
> 
> Unfortunately, the fact is, the enemies would not have succeeded if we had an intelligent and informed voters.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/817748207694467072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/817750330196819968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/817753083707015168
reducing tensions between the worlds two foremost military and nuclear superpowers, seems to me he has a pretty good grasp of important international issues. 

amazing how the democrats have now become the party of war and keep pushing a false terrorist narrative on Syria while Trump makes peace.

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## Desert Fox

The intelligence bringing us the Russian hacking evidence ...which btw, they say from the other side of their mouth, that they cannot reveal that evidence... is the same intelligence that brought us the 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' evidence.

"Just trust us, we're the government."

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## Desert Fox

CBU-105 said:


> He's just trolling the media, toying with them.
> 
> skipping briefings is no biggie when he's surrounded by people who are getting briefed daily, not like he can do anything till he takes office anyway, so for now he's busy building a cabinet.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/817748207694467072
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/817750330196819968
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/817753083707015168
> reducing tensions between the worlds two foremost military and nuclear superpowers, seems to me he has a pretty good grasp of important international issues.
> 
> amazing how the democrats have now become the party of war and keep pushing a false terrorist narrative on Syria while Trump makes peace.


Don't you get it by now?? Who cares about a nuclear holocaust!! We just can't allow a "racist", "sexist", "misogynist" into office!!!

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## CBU-105

wtf, is this for real ? 

edit, it is real, she made a Trump painting with her puszy too, LOL ! 

SAD !


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## The SC

Why has Trump shown such eagerness to select former military brass for his Cabinet? The reasons may be both pragmatic and political.


Donald Trump didn’t always speak highly of military brass. “I know more about ISIS than the generals do,” he said in fall 2016. “Believe me.” In September, he added, “I think under the leadership of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, the generals have been reduced to rubble. They have been reduced to a point where it’s embarrassing for our country…. And I can just see the great—as an example—General George Patton spinning in his grave as ISIS we can’t beat.”

But Trump’s disdain had a caveat: “I have great faith in the military. I have great faith in certain of the commanders, certainly.”

These days, he’s leaning toward the second pole. Already, Trump has selected three retired generals for Cabinet-level jobs. On Tuesday, he formally announced that he’s nominating retired Marine General James Mattis as defense secretary. On Wednesday, multiple outlets reported that he has selected John Kelly, another retired Marine general, as secretary of homeland security. Former Lieutenant General Michael Flynn got the nod as national security adviser on November 17.

That may not be the last of it. Trump has met with General David Petraeus, the former head of the CIA, apparently about the secretary of state position. Stanley McChrystal, a former Army general, said this summer he’d decline a job with Trump if offered, but his name remains in circulation. So is that of Admiral Mike Rogers, the head of the NSA. Retired Army General Jack Keane says he declined an offer to lead the Pentagon.

It’s hard, if not impossible to remember such a brass-heavy Cabinet. Ulysses S. Grant, a former general, once had four former generals serving in his Cabinet in the same year—but that was in an era just after a disproportionate share of politically involved white men had served in high-ranking positions in the Civil War.

The predominance of generals is already raising some conflicts. Mattis’s appointment specifically contravenes a law, intended to help preserve “civilian control” of the armed forces, that says that no one who has served on active duty within the last 10 years can lead the Pentagon. A candidate can, however, obtain a waiver from Congress to circumvent that, and it appears Mattis will get one without too much trouble. Democrats (like Leon Panetta) seem to either think he should receive the waiver, or not to care enough to put up a huge fight.

There’s a debate between policy experts about the wisdom of appointing so many generals, and whether it poses a risk to the nation. Too many military leaders, critics say, warp national priorities at best and slouch toward a junta at worse.

“Appointing too many generals would throw off the balance of a system that for good reason favors civilian leadership,” writes _The New York Times_’ Carol Giacomo. “The concern is not so much that military leaders might drag the country into more wars. It is that the Pentagon, with its nearly $600 billion budget, already exercises vast sway in national security policymaking and dwarfs the State Department in resources.” In _The Washington Post_, Phillip Carter and Loren DeJonge Schulman warn that “great generals don’t always make great Cabinet officials” and add that “relying on the brass, however individually talented, to run so much of the government could also jeopardize civil-military relations.” Rosa Brooks, meanwhile, suggests this isn’t much to worry about, saying that the old, formalized notions of civilian control are obsolete.

There’s some concern within the military, too. During the presidential campaign, two former chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff criticized Flynn and retired Marine General John Allen, who backed Hillary Clinton, for intervening in politics, worrying about what effect their campaigning might have on civilian-military relations. One can imagine that leaders in the Navy and Air Force, thinking of the longstanding rivalries between branches, might be getting nervous seeing former Army and Marine generals gaining so much influence at the White House.

But setting aside the good or bad of the appointments, what might account for Trump’s disproportionate reliance on brass? It’s tempting to offer a psychoanalytic explanation. Trump seems somewhat star-struck by generals; this is a man who attended military school, but repeatedly obtained draft deferrals on somewhat questionable bases, and may glamorize generals in a vicarious way. Trump, the consummate entertainer, also seems enthralled by dramatic figures like Patton and MacArthur, as my colleague James Fallows has noted, either in real life or through on-screen depictions.

Some of the reasons may be more pragmatic, though. First, Trump has no national-security experience, and has shown very little interest in gaining it. It’s important for both his administration and his credibility to have people who know what they’re talking about around him, and the military imprimatur provides that. Second, Trump alienated so many civilian Republican figures—especially those in the national-security and defense realms—that he has little choice but to look outside the proven class of civil servants.

There’s also a political valence to it, however. Trump has spent the last few months promising to “drain the swamp,” and railing at the establishment and the Republican Party. That rules out almost anyone traditionally qualified for top jobs, even ones willing to serve in a Trump administration. The military is one of the few institutions that remains widely trusted by American society. In a Gallup poll this summer, it was the most highly ranked option, exceeding even small businesses and churches. At 73 percent, the number of people saying they trusted the military at least “quite a lot” was more than double those who said the same about the presidency.

Choosing ex-generals for top spots, then, checks a lot of boxes for Trump: He can appoint proven leaders who are willing to serve and will start out with a baseline level of trust with the American public. Of course, this explanation only goes so far: Trump’s other picks have included billionaire business leaders and former bankers including Steven Mnuchin, Wilbur Ross, and Betsy DeVos. In the Gallup poll, banks and big business, fared much worse, at 27 and 18 percent, respectively.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/12/all-the-president-elects-generals/509873/


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## Matirpola

Thread title..


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## CBU-105

another sinister themed Trump documentary, interesting stuff so far 






@LA se Karachi


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## LA se Karachi

CBU-105 said:


> another sinister themed Trump documentary, interesting stuff so far
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @LA se Karachi




Lol, well this isn't much of a documentary. I wouldn't worry. Websites and videos like this are very common these days. There are conspiracy theorists on both the right and left. 

Frontline, however, is a respected program produced by PBS, and I didn't find it to be sinister.


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## CBU-105

LA se Karachi said:


> Lol, well this isn't much of a documentary. I wouldn't worry. Websites and videos like this are very common these days. There are conspiracy theorists on both the right and left.
> 
> Frontline, however, is a respected program produced by PBS, and I didn't find it to be sinister.


yep, disappointing one, "evil right wing billionaires... ok, but they never bothered explaining why they're evil, just that Trump has no "workers" in his cabinet 

poorly made commie trash.

and he's been tweeting again, rips Brennan a new one


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/820786730257285120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/820789938887294977
also read that Brennan might be an undercover wahhabi, a saudi mole lol

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## The_Showstopper

*States Won by Trump Have Highest 'Obamacare' Enrollment*

A record number of people signed up for health insurance under the Affordable Care Act for the coming year, Barack Obama's administration announced Wednesday, with the most people selecting coverage in states that Donald Trump won in November.

Some 6.4 million people signed up by the mid-December deadline — 400,000 more enrollees than the same period last year, according to the Department of Health and Human Services.

In a twist, the states with the most people selecting coverage all went for Trump in the presidential election: Florida, with just under 1.3 million selections; Texas, with about 776,000; North Carolina, with 369,077; Georgia, with 352,000; and Pennsylvania, with 290,950.

Those tallies do not include states that created their own digital health insurance exchanges, like New York and California, instead of using the federal government's HealthCare.gov website.

The enrollment numbers include new subscribers (2.05 million) and returning consumers who had to renew their coverage and were not automatically enrolled. The tallies do not yet include automatic enrollments, which will be added to the total later.

HHS Secretary Sylvia Matthews Burwell did not directly attribute the spike to the election of Trump, who has promised to repeal and replace "Obamacare," but noted that more than 30,000 people have called HHS operators "worrying about the future of coverage in the wake of the election."

Speaking to reporters on a conference call, Burwell said officials have been assuring consumers that "Obamacare" remains the law of the land through the 2017 calendar year and that people will be guaranteed coverage at least until then under the existing law.


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/states-won-trump-highest-obamacare-enrollment/story?id=44344734

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## Hindustani78

*http://www.deccanherald.com/content/591948/trump-take-oath-abraham-lincoln.html*

*Trump to take oath on Abraham Lincoln Bible, Pence on Reagan's*
Washington, Jan 17, 2017 (PTI)




*Donald J Trump will be sworn-in as the US President on Friday using two Bibles: the one that President Abraham Lincoln used at his first inauguration, plus his own that dates back to the President-elect's childhood. US Chief Justice John Roberts will administer the oath of office to Trump, according to the 58th Presidential Inauguration Committee (PIC) which announced more details of swearing-in ceremony.*

"In his first inaugural address, President Lincoln appealed to the 'better angels of our nature'," said PIC Chairman Tom Barrack. "As he takes the same oath of office 156 years later, President-elect Trump is humbled to place his hand on Bibles that hold special meaning both to his family and to our country," he added.

Trump's Bible was presented to him by his mother upon his graduation of Sunday Church Primary School at First Presbyterian Church, Jamaica, New York, on Children’s Day, June 12, 1955, a media release said. The Bible is a revised standard version published by Thomas Nelson and Sons in New York in 1953 and is embossed with his name on the lower portion of the front cover. The inside cover is signed by church officials and is inscribed with his name and the details of when it was presented.

The Lincoln Bible was purchased for the first inauguration of President Lincoln by William Thomas Carroll, Clerk of the Supreme Court. The Bible is bound in burgundy velvet with a gold-washed white metal rim along the edges of the covers. It is part of the collections of the Library of Congress and has been used at three inaugurals: 1861, 2009, and 2013. Outgoing US President Barack Obama had used Lincoln's Bible for his inaugurations in 2009 and 2013.

On the other hand, vice president-elect Mike Pence would take oath using The Reagan Family Bible. Associate Justice of the Supreme Court Clarence Thomas will administer the Oath of Office to him on January 20. "President Reagan placed his faith in a loving God and the goodness of our country. He set out to change a nation and in doing so, he changed the world. In the march of history, Ronald Reagan's time in office was limited, but his legacy inspired a generation and will continue beyond," Pence said.

"It will be humbling to enter office with President Donald Trump, standing next to my family, with my wife Karen holding the same Bible used by President Reagan when he took office," he said. The Bible that Pence will place his right hand upon was used by Reagan for his gubernatorial and presidential inaugurations. This marks the first time a person other than Reagan has used it at an inauguration.

The Reagan Family Bible has never been out of the possession of the Reagan family or the Reagan Foundation, and is currently on permanent display at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum in Simi Valley, California.

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## خره مينه لګته وي

Those new polls giving Donald Trump low approval ratings?

They're rigged, too, says the president-elect.

"The same people who did the phony election polls, and were so wrong, are now doing approval rating polls," Trump tweeted early Tuesday. "They are rigged just like before."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/821344302651555840
In the latest survey, only 40% of respondents in a _Washington Post_/ABC News poll approve of the way Trump has handled the post-election transition, making him the least popular incoming president of the last seven chief executives.

His transition has featured frequent clashes with intelligence agencies, political opponents and reporters, particularly over evidence that the Russians interfered in the election by hacking emails from Democrats close to Hillary Clinton.

Many pre-election surveys forecast a Clinton victory, but Trump took enough states to win the Electoral College; Clinton won nearly 2.9 million more popular votes.

The recent approval surveys are largely divided along party lines. In general, Republicans support Trump while large numbers of Democrats oppose him even before he takes office.

*Stay with USA TODAY for full coverage of the 2017 inauguration.*


http://www.usatoday.com


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## خره مينه لګته وي

*The US government has given half a billion dollars to the UN's Green Climate Fund, just three days before Donald Trump takes office.*

Barack Obama's outgoing administration announced the contribution of $500m (£406m; €468m) on Tuesday, bringing the total funds to date to $1bn.

Mr Obama pledged in 2014 to give $3bn to help tackle the effects of climate change in the poorest countries.

*Mr Trump has previously called global warming a hoax.*

The president-elect has also threatened to pull the US out of the Paris accord - a global agreement on curbing greenhouse gas emissions - and America's commitment to the fund.

*Mr Trump could decide to withhold the rest of the fund.*

However, John Kirby, the State Department spokesman who announced the grant, said there was no "nefarious desire or intent" behind the timing.





*Donald Trump has previously called climate change a hoax, and a number of his cabinet members deny its existence


"It's not being done to try to provoke a reaction from the incoming administration or to try to dictate to them one way or the other how they are going to deal with climate issues," Mr Kirby said.*

*"This is an investment that had been long planned."*

Republican senators have previously stated their opposition to the fund, and called the payments a waste of money.

*But Mr Trump's team may not be taking such a hard line on climate change as initially thought.*

Last week Rex Tillerson, the former ExxonMobil chief and the president-elect's nominee for secretary of state, said he wants the US to keep "a seat at the table" regarding global warming.

*"No one country is going to solve this alone," he said at his Senate confirmation hearing.*

*"The risk of climate change does exist, and the consequences could be serious enough that actions should be taken."*



http://www.bbc.com


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## خره مينه لګته وي

On 20 January, inauguration day in the United States, a nameless, unknown military aide will be seen accompanying President Barack Obama to the handover ceremony at the US Capitol in Washington.

That military aide will be carrying a satchel over his or her shoulder containing a briefcase known as "the nuclear football". Inside will be a piece of digital hardware measuring 3in (7.3cm) by 5in, known as "the biscuit".

This contains the launch codes for a strategic nuclear strike. The briefing for the incoming president on how to activate them will have already taken place out of public sight, but the moment President-elect Donald Trump takes the oath of office that aide, and the satchel, will move quietly over to his side.

Donald Trump will then have sole authority to order an action that could result in the deaths of millions of people in under an hour. The question on a lot of people's minds right now is, given his thin skin and impulsive temperament, what are the safeguards, if any, to prevent an impetuous decision by one man with catastrophic consequences?

First off, it should be said that Donald Trump has rowed back on some of his earlier, provocative comments on the use of nuclear weapons. He has recently stated he would be "the last person to use them", although he has not ruled it out.


Donald Trump: US must greatly expand nuclear capabilities
Russia's top spin doctor in nuclear warning
North Korea's nuclear programme: How advanced is it?
Other senior figures are also involved in the chain of command, such as the incoming US Secretary of Defence, retired US Marine Gen James Mattis, But Mark Fitzpatrick, a nuclear non-proliferation expert at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in Washington, says that ultimately, the sole authority to launch a strike rests with the president.

"There are no checks and balances on the president's authority to launch a nuclear strike," he says. "But between the time he authorises one and the time it's carried out there are other people involved."

The idea of a rogue president taking such a monumental decision on his own is unrealistic. He gives the order and the secretary of defence is constitutionally obliged to carry it out.

The secretary of defence could, in theory, refuse to obey the order if he had reason to doubt the president's sanity, but this would constitute mutiny and the president can then fire him and assign the task to the deputy secretary of defence.





*Image captionDonald Trump says the US should "greatly strengthen and expand" its nuclear capabilities...Image copyrightDREW ANGERER/GETTY IMAGES*

Under the 25th Amendment of the US Constitution a vice-president could, in theory, declare the president mentally incapable of taking a proper decision, but he would need to be backed by a majority of the cabinet.

*So how would it work in practice?*

Inside that briefcase, the "nuclear football" that never leaves the president's side, is a "black book" of strike options for him to choose from once he has authenticated his identity as commander-in-chief, using a plastic card.

Washington folklore has it that a previous president temporarily mislaid his identification card when he left it inside a jacket that was sent to the dry cleaners.

Once the president has selected his strike options from a long-prepared "menu", the order is passed via the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the Pentagon's war room and then, using sealed authentication codes, on to US Strategic Command HQ in Offutt Airbase in Nebraska.

The order to fire is transmitted to the actual launch crews using encrypted codes that have to match the codes locked inside their safes.

The US and Russia both possess enough nuclear missiles to destroy each other's cities several times over - there are reported to be 100 US nuclear warheads aimed at Moscow alone. The two countries' arsenals account for more than 90% of the world's total number of nuclear warheads.

As of September 2016 Russia had the most, with an estimated 1796 strategic nuclear warheads, deployed on a mixed platform of intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs), submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs) and strategic bombers.

Under a programme ordered by President Vladimir Putin, Moscow has recently invested billions of roubles in upgrading its strategic nuclear missile force, keeping an arsenal of constantly mobile ballistic missiles travelling through tunnels deep beneath the forests of Siberia.

America had, in September 2016, 1,367 strategic nuclear warheads, similarly deployed in land-based underground missile silos, which by their static nature are vulnerable to a first strike, at sea onboard submarines, where they are harder to detect, and at airbases, where they can be loaded on to bombers.

The UK has about 120 strategic warheads, of which only a third are deployed at sea. The Royal Navy always keeps a portion of the nation's Trident nuclear force somewhere in the world's oceans, maintaining what is known as the continuous at sea deterrent.






*The Topol is one of Russia's mobile ICBMs*

ICBMs travel at a speed of over 17,000mph (Mach 23), flying high above the Earth's atmosphere before descending towards their pre-programmed targets at four miles a second.

The flight-time for land-based missiles flying between Russia and the US is between 25 and 30 minutes. For submarine-based missiles, where the boats may be able to approach a coast covertly, the flight time could be considerably shorter, even as little as 12 minutes.

This does not leave a president much time to decide whether it is a false alarm or imminent Armageddon. Once ICBMs have been launched they cannot be recalled, but if they remain in their silos they will probably be destroyed by the inbound attack.

A former senior White House official told me recently that much would depend on the circumstances in which a nuclear strike was being considered.

If this was a long-term, measured policy decision to say, carry out a pre-emptive strike on country X, then a lot of people would be involved. The vice-president, National Security Adviser, and much of the cabinet would all be likely to be included in the decision-making process.

But if there was an imminent strategic threat to the United States, ie if an inbound launch of ICBMs from a hostile state had been detected and were minutes from reaching the US then, he said, "the president has extraordinary latitude to take the sole decision to launch."


http://www.bbc.com


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## خره مينه لګته وي

With just days to go before inauguration, Donald Trump is making life rather difficult for his party's leadership in Congress.

It could be by accident. It could be part of a plan to establish his independent credentials. Or it could simply be an early attempt at framing Republican policies in terms palatable to his working-class supporters.

Whatever the reason, Mr Trump has staked out positions that are not exactly in harmony with Republican orthodoxy or the policy direction in which the Republican-led Congress seems to be heading.

*Better than Obamacare*
Over the weekend Mr Trump told the Washington Post that the goal of his healthcare reform plan, following repeal of the Affordable Care Act, is "insurance for everybody".

"There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it," the president-elect said. "That's not going to happen with us."

Universal coverage is an objective President Barack Obama's healthcare reform sought, but never actually achieved. According to the federal government, even with full implementation of Obamacare and its insurance-coverage mandate, the US uninsured rate was 8.6% in 2016 - albeit a 50-year low.

"Insurance for everybody," outside a single-payer government-provided healthcare plan, is virtually unachievable.

This is why, when Republican congressional leaders describe their healthcare reform proposals, they generally use the term "universal access" not "universal coverage".

"Our goal here is to make sure that everybody can buy coverage or find coverage if they choose to," a Republican House of Representatives aide told reporters in December.





Donald Trump and House Speaker Paul Ryan may not see eye-to-eye on universal healthcare coverage.


The yet-to-be announced plan congressional Republicans are currently formulating is more likely to be a blend of the measures floated by various conservatives in the past.

For instance Congressman Tom Price, Mr Trump's nominee to be health and human services secretary, suggested a system that leaned heavily on tax credits and an expansion of existing health-savings accounts, where individuals could put aside untaxed money to pay for future medical needs.

Speaker of the House Paul Ryan has proposed the creation of federally funded high-risk insurance pools that would enrol individuals who couldn't get insurances elsewhere because of pre-existing medical conditions or other complicating factors.

None of these would come close to approaching universal coverage or even Mr Obama's uninsured mark over the past few years, however.

As if that weren't enough, Mr Trump also advocated using the buying power of the federal Medicare prescription-drug programme for the elderly to drive down the cost of pharmaceuticals.

While this has long been a goal of Democrats, conservatives have opposed the idea for more than a decade. It's enough to make rank-and-file Republicans reach for their antacids.

Looming over this entire discussion is a Congressional Budget Office reportreleased on Tuesday that predicts a straight-up repeal of Obamacare without any kind of a replacement would result in a doubling of premiums in the individual insurance market by 2026, at which point a total of 32 million Americans would have lost their coverage.

Mr Trump, in his comments this weekend, has essentially laid down a marker that repeal will be quickly followed by a replacement that will do a better job advancing Democratic goals of lower drug prices and more universal coverage than the Democrats' own best attempt.

It is, to put it bluntly, a high bar to reach.

*A simple tax plan*
If reshaping the US healthcare system turns out to be a challenge, at least tax reform was considered a low-hanging fruit for Mr Trump and his party. Even here, however, the president-elect has made comments that undermine Republican efforts to achieve legislative consensus.

A key part of the nascent congressional tax plan involved something called "border adjustments", which would tax corporations based on their final point of sale and not on where they are based. This would allow the US to give preference to businesses based in the US - one of Mr Trump's key goals during the campaign. It would also raise enough revenue to allow the overall US tax rate to be lowered from its current 35% mark.





*Donald Trump doesn't want a "complicated" tax reform plan*


Mr Trump, however, said the idea was "too complicated".

"Anytime I hear border adjustment, I don't love it," he said. "Because usually it means we're going to get adjusted into a bad deal."

Mr Trump appears to support a more direct border tariff, not the more complicated congressional work-around. On Monday he threatened European automakers with a 35% tax on foreign-made vehicles sold in the US.

The problem this presents for both the president-elect and congressional leaders is it runs directly against his party's long-standing free-trade positions - principles many in Congress have campaigned, and won, on for years. They might be able to dance around the issue with border adjustments and corporate tax reform, but Mr Trump seems more like a bull than a ballerina.

*'Congress can't get cold feet'*
It's possible to imagine that Mr Trump's recent comments were just, to put it delicately, rhetorical missteps and that he, in fact, is actually on the same wavelength as his Republican colleagues in Congress.

Then again, when pressed by the Washington Post on how he could get his healthcare priorities advanced despite an apparent conflict with current Republican plans, Mr Trump dug in his heels.

"The Congress can't get cold feet because the people will not let that happen," Mr Trump said.

"I think we will get approval. I won't tell you how, but we will get approval. You see what's happened in the House in recent weeks."

That was an apparent reference to Mr Trump's Twitter-based effort to force House Republicans to back away from a plan to weaken an independent congressional ethics investigation office several weeks ago.





*Donald Trump says "the people" won't let Congress back away from his ideas*


Whether he was directly responsible for causing the legislators to change course or simply reflecting popular outcry is open to debate, but the president-elect seems to be feeling his oats.

And if it's this way on tax law and healthcare reform - areas where Republicans and Mr Trump have a fair amount of ideological common ground - imagine what might happen when the president tries to advance his more controversial ideas on immigration or trade. Or pushes his childcare proposal, which met with significant opposition from his party "allies" pretty much from the moment he proposed them last October.

And what's in store if Mr Ryan goes through with his long-sought dream of entitlement reform - despite Mr Trump's campaign pledges not to touch Medicare or Social Security benefits?

Candidate Trump was a political wild-card, willing to buck conventional wisdom and his own party seemingly on whim.

Early indications are President Trump could do more of the same. As Republicans celebrate this weekend, storm clouds may be forming on the horizon.

http://www.bbc.com


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## خره مينه لګته وي

*FILE - A man crosses the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) logo in the lobby of CIA Headquarters in Langley, Virginia.*


A White House spokesman says President-elect Donald Trump's administration will have to choose whether to side with the U.S. intelligence community, or Russia and WikiLeaks.

Josh Earnest was responding to a question about Russian President Vladimir Putin's accusing President Barack Obama's administration of attempting to undercut Trump by spreading false information.

Putin said last week's release of an unverified dossier containing salacious allegations about Trump was part of an effort to "undermine the legitimacy of the president-elect" in spite of Trump's "convincing" presidential win.

*Putin described as "fake" an allegation in the document that Trump engaged in sexual activities at a Moscow hotel in 2013. Putin added that those responsible for the allegations are "worse than prostitutes," and he questioned why Trump would "need prostitutes" when he has "been with the most beautiful women in the world."*

U.S. intelligence agencies released a report concluding that Russia, under Putin's orders, worked to undermine the U.S. presidential election and aspired to help Trump win.

Earnest defended the work of the intelligence community at Tuesday's White House briefing, saying this is not the first time those agencies have had "some uncomfortable things to say about Russia."

*"These are the kinds of things that I'm sure the Russians would rather not hear," Earnest said. "But ultimately -- and this is something that the next administration is going to have to decide -- there's a pretty stark divide here."*

Trump has blamed the intelligence community for leaking unsubstantiated information, which also linked Trump to the Russian government, and questioned whether Central Intelligence Director John Brennan was responsible.

*In a Twitter post last week, the president-elected compared the intelligence community to Nazi Germany.
*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/819393877174087682

In an interview Monday with _The_ _Wall Street Journal_, Brennan described the comparison to the Nazi's as "repugnant" and said Trump's criticism of the intelligence community's credibility was unwarranted. "Tell the families of those 117 CIA officers who are forever memorialized on our wall of honor that their loved ones, who gave their lives, were akin to Nazi's," said Brennan.

Brennan denied leaking the dossier, which was compiled by a retired British intelligence officer. Brennan said a synopsis of the report was included in briefing documents that were delivered to President Obama and President-elect Trump at the request of the FBI.

The dossier had circulated around Washington for months before it was published by BuzzFeed News last week.

*At a separate news conference Tuesday in Moscow, Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said relations with the U.S. could improve when Trump assumes the presidency.*

"If what Donald Trump and his team say about Russia, the readiness to search for joint approaches to the resolution of common problems and the deterrence of common threats ... we will reciprocate," Lavrov said.

*The Russian foreign minister said Trump administration officials should attend talks in Kazakhstan later this month devoted to ending Syrian civil war. Lavrov expressed hope that a Trump administration "will not apply double standards in order to use the war on terrorism to achieve goals that don't have anything to do with this goal."*

The U.S. and Russia have clashed over the Syrian conflict during the Obama administration, with Washington backing moderate rebel groups, while Russia has thrown its full support behind the government of Bashar al-Assad.


http://www.voanews.com


----------



## خره مينه لګته وي

President Obama will fail to keep one of his most high-profile promises — closing the detention facility for suspected terrorists at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba — the White House acknowledged on Tuesday.

*“At this point, I don’t anticipate that we will succeed in that goal of closing the prison, but it’s not for a lack of trying,” *press secretary Josh Earnest told reporters at his final media briefing.

*“The only reason it didn’t happen is because of the politics that members of Congress of both parties, frankly, played with this issue,” Earnest said with just two full days left in Obama’s term.*

The outgoing president had made a top priority of closing the facility, opened under his predecessor in 2002, at the dawn of the modern war on terrorism. Obama contended that it served as a terrorism-recruiting tool and later seized on the argument that keeping the facility open for a diminished population of prisoners was a waste of taxpayer dollars.

*“To overcome extremism, we must also be vigilant in upholding the values our troops defend — because there is no force in the world more powerful than the example of America,” Obama told a joint meeting of Congress in February 2009. “That is why I have ordered the closing of the detention center at Guantánamo Bay, and will seek swift and certain justice for captured terrorists — because living our values doesn’t make us weaker, it makes us safer and it makes us stronger.”*

But lawmakers blocked his proposals to shift the prisoners to prison facilities on U.S. soil and have criticized his efforts to transfer detainees overseas to countries willing to harbor them under close supervision.

In the latest transfer, 10 prisoners were shipped to Oman for what that country called a “temporary” stay. Just 45 detainees remain at the naval base, down from 242 when Obama took office.





*White House press secretary Josh Earnest (Photo: Yuri Gripas/Reuters)*


*Ironically, it was a liberal Democrat who dealt the first blow to Obama’s promise.*

*In May 2009, Democratic House Appropriations Committee Chairman Dave Obey stripped $80 million that Obama had requested to close the prison from an emergency funding bill. “While I don’t mind defending a concrete program, I’m not much interested in wasting my energy defending a theoretical program,” Obey said at the time. “So when they have a plan, they’re welcome to come back and talk to us about it.“*

Republican hardliners (with not just a few Democrats going along) seized on the issue to try to make Obama look weak on national security. The Obama administration provided all the ammo Republicans needed with its clumsy and ill-fated plan to transfer a handful of forlorn Chinese Uighur prisoners to a Northern Virginia suburb, touching off a full-blown NIMBY (not in my backyard) rebellion in Congress.

The Obama team members seriously underestimated how difficult a task they had assigned to themselves. “There was kind of this naiveté that somehow, if the president said we’re going to close Guantánamo, and we have a plan to close Guantánamo, that ultimately that would happen,” recalled former CIA Director Leon Panetta.


https://www.yahoo.com


----------



## خره مينه لګته وي

President-elect Donald Trump admitted that receiving intel briefings has shown him that the U.S. faces some formidable "enemies" but said he will "solve the problems."

"I've had a lot of briefings that are very ... I don't want to say 'scary' because I'll solve the problems," Trump told Axios in an interview published Wednesday. "But we have some big enemies out there in this country and we have some very big enemies -- very big and, in some cases, strong enemies."

He continued: "You also realize that you've got to get it right because a mistake would be very, very costly in so many different ways."

Of his intel briefings, Trump said he likes them short.

"I like bullets or I like as little as possible," he said. "I don't need, you know, 200-page reports on something that can be handled on a page. That I can tell you."


Donald Trump: 'I Don't Like Tweeting'

More Than 50 Democratic Congress Members Planning to Skip Inauguration

Trump Says He Doesn't Need Daily Intelligence Briefings That Say 'Same Thing' Every Day


In December, the president-elect told Fox News he doesn't need daily intelligence briefings because he is "a smart person" and doesn't "have to be told the same thing in the same words" every day.

"I get it when I need it," Trump said. "These are very good people that are giving me the briefings ... You know, I'm, like, a smart person. I don't have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day for the next eight years ... I don't need that. But I do say, 'If something should change, let us know.'"


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/


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## خره مينه لګته وي

*





A man passes security fence placed in preparation of inauguration of president-elect Donald Trump on Tuesday in Washington,DC (AFP/Brendon Smialowski)


WASHINGTON*: *Metal detectors, roadblocks, thousands of security officers — some with heavy automatic weapons — and barricades of metal and sand trucks have descended on Washington, DC in preparation for Donald Trump’s inauguration on Friday as the 45th US president.*

*Washington Mobilizes 42,500-Strong Security Force for Inaugural (2009)*

As many of its own locals fled the week of presidential festivities, Trump tweeted Tuesday: “The people are pouring into Washington in record numbers. Bikers for Trump are on their way. It will be a great Thursday, Friday and Saturday!”

*His inauguration is already standing out in its security measures, attendance and expectations.
The ceremony will miss the Hollywood presence, with stars such as Scarlett Johansson, Julianne Moore and Amy Schumer opting out and participating in protests the day after.*

The historic event is also being met by an unprecedented boycott from more than 40 House Democrats, who are making a statement against Trump’s rhetoric and ongoing Twitter storm against Congressman and civil rights icon John Lewis.

*The event will also be shrouded by massive protests by Trump’s opponents who have started arriving into DC, with some planning disruptions and street blockages during inauguration day.*

*DC as a security fortress, Around 3,200 police officers are preparing to take charge of downtown’s security on inauguration day, with a budget exceeding $110 million to safeguard the nation’s capital and Pennsylvania Avenue, which Trump will take from the Capitol building to the White House.*

Mike Litterst, spokesperson for the National Park Service, told _Arab News_: “The final preparations are taking place to secure the whole area from the Lincoln Memorial to Lafayette Park.”

Trump and Vice President-elect Mike Pence will take part in a “Make America Great Again!” welcome concert at the Lincoln Memorial Thursday, on the eve of the inauguration.

Also on Thursday, Trump and Pence are expected to visit Arlington National Cemetery to lay a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

The security plans involve more than 30 organizations, says Litterst, including the police, the Secret Service and Department of Homeland Security. Of particular focus are the protests; some have already begun nightly in DC this week, and will culminate in “The Million March” for women’s groups on Saturday. The Park Service is expecting around 400,000 protesters to take part in Saturday’s march from 28 groups.

For the inauguration itself, 900,000 people are expected to attend, higher than the attendance for George W. Bush’s inauguration but lower than Barack Obama’s record 1.8 million attendees in 2009.

While the larger protests are designed to be peaceful and organized, a group called DisruptJ20 is planning disruptions and blockages during the inauguration itself and for the parade.

“The idea is to shut down access to the parade as much as possible and slowing it down to a crawl,” DisruptJ20 organizer Legba Carrefour told NBC News.

“Then there’s the broader goal of shutting down the entire city around it, and creating a sense of paralysis that creates a headline that says, ‘Trump’s inauguration creates chaos,’” he added, although the security grid and restricted access could make such a task extremely complicated.

A divided country The security scene around the inauguration, and the charged rhetoric from both Trump and his opponents — some have called his election “illegitimate” — speaks to a deeper divide in US society and politics.

Staffers at the Sofitel and the May Flower hotels, situated a few blocks away from the White House, told _Arab News_ that they are taking extra security measures inside and outside the hotel to avoid clashes between Trump supporters and protesters.

A more visible security presence is seen in the lobbies of major DC upscale hotels, with a few installing metal detectors or hiring private security for the whole week.

Polls released on the eve of the inauguration show Trump with historically low approval ratings.
In a poll conducted by the Washington Post and ABC, his favorability is only 40 percent, compared with 79 percent for outgoing President Barack Obama in 2009.

A CNN-ORC poll gives Trump a 53 percent unfavorability rating, also unseen in recent US history.
These numbers will not stop Trump from taking the oath of office on Friday, administered by Chief Justice John Roberts, as the Marines band plays “Hail to the Chief” followed by the firing of a 21-gun salute.

However, the divide poses a big challenge for Trump in constraining his political capital and ability to build bridges with Democrats.


http://www.arabnews.com/node/1040586/world


----------



## خره مينه لګته وي

*WASHINGTON*: Donald Trump wants a “great relationship” with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, a member of his transition team said, after the US president-elect sparked anger with criticism of her and NATO.

Anthony Scaramucci, a hedge-fund investor who is representing the Trump team at the World Economic Forum in Davos, said the next US president was a “man of peace” who “recognizes the importance of the long-term alliances that we have got with Europe.”

But he acknowledged that Trump is also seeking to build bridges with Russian President Vladimir Putin, moving on from hostilities over the war in Syria, Ukraine and allegations of state-sponsored cyberattacks.
“He wants to have a great relationship with Angela Merkel as he does with President Putin,” Scaramucci said in Davos, where 3,000 members of the political and business elite are gathered for annual talks.

*“I do not see him as somebody who wants to have a bad relationship with people and he certainly does not view Europe as weak.*

*“In the next six months, in the next year, the relationship between the US and Europe will be stronger than ever,” Scaramucci said.*

But he added: “I think he said something that you guys should listen to — that we have to make sure that our structures, our alliances or charters are in preparation for the 21st and 22nd century, not the 20th century.”
Trump unleashed a volley of attacks on Europe in a hard-hitting interview with two European newspapers on Sunday, branding NATO “obsolete” and saying more countries would leave the European Union after Britain.
The Republican billionaire also criticized Merkel’s “catastrophic” decision to open Germany’s borders to hundreds of thousands of refugees and migrants.


*Backlash in Europe
*
Despite a backlash in Europe over the comments, Scaramucci said the interview reflected Trump’s “authenticity,” adding: “You should find this refreshing and not alarming. He is open with his views.”

*The senior adviser to Trump also said his comments about the NATO being “obsolete” reflect how the world has changed, but should not be interpreted as meaning that it needs to be consigned to history.*

*“NATO is working but there are things about it that need to change and there are parts of it that are, in the words of Trump, ‘obsolete’,” Scaramucci said.*

Scaramucci also said that the US wanted to have a “phenomenal relationship” with China.
He said the focus should now be on finding common cause with Russia.

*“Let us try to find a way to get along better (with Russia). We need to focus less on combating Communism and more on rejecting radical Islam,” he said.*

Trump’s comments about countries needing to pay their way in NATO reflected his background as a businessman and property developer and made sense, Scaramucci said.

Scaramucci also said the US wanted to create more symmetry in trade agreements and have a “phenomenal relationship” with China, calling on Beijing to “reach now toward us and allow us to create this symmetry.”

Addressing concerns which have been raised about the way Trump has communicated his ideas and thoughts so far, Scaramucci said people should not be worried or alarmed by his tweets.


*‘Reaganesque’ speech
*
Trump’s inauguration speech would be “Reaganesque,” he added, in reference to former US President Ronald Reagan.

As for his own business interests, Scaramucci said he had signed a deal for the sale of his Skybridge hedge fund.

European officials say they expect Trump to hear about the importance of the US-European alliance not only from diplomats and generals, but from fellow businessmen who recognize the need for close ties with the world’s biggest trading bloc.

Trump “would be well-advised to ask his international American companies how much sense it makes to operate in a single market in Europe. Then perhaps a sense of understanding would prevail,” said Johannes Hahn, the European Commissioner in charge of the bloc’s future expansion.

Still, despite the reassurance Europeans take from Trump’s cabinet picks, one EU diplomat said the conclusion in Brussels was that they were dealing with “a big unknown” in Trump himself. “Whatever Tillerson, Mattis and others say, it is not necessarily the new administration’s policy.”


*Valuable lesson

French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault said Europe could learn a valuable lesson from a skeptical Washington: European countries need to stick together to defend themselves.*

*“The best way to defend Europe, that’s what Mr. Trump is inviting us to do, is to remain united, is to stand together and not forget that the strength of Europeans is their unity,” Ayrault said.*

*Behind the scenes, European officials say they are still confident that the architecture of the Western security alliance will survive a Trump presidency.*

Many say they have taken heart from the more conventional foreign policy positions described by Trump’s picks for defense secretary and secretary of state, Gen. James Mattis and Exxon-Mobil ex-CEO Rex Tillerson, at confirmation hearings.

They also point to the strong support for NATO and the firm line on Russia expressed by senators from Trump’s Republican Party during the questioning.

Ultimately, they expect the post-World War II Western alliance to withstand a more skeptical approach from the White House, thanks to deep institutional understanding of its benefits on both sides of the Atlantic.
A stepped-up schedule of summits and meetings will give early chances to clear the air.

*“We are working on the basis that Trump will listen to Mattis, Tillerson and foreign policy Republicans,” said a senior EU diplomat involved in foreign policy planning in Brussels.*



http://www.arabnews.com/node/1040541/world


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## Hindustani78

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1040576/world

WASHINGTON: At his swearing-in on Friday, Donald Trump will stand before a crowd of thousands and place his hand on his own Bible and, symbolically, on that used by Abraham Lincoln 156 years before.

The president-election’s inauguration committee on Tuesday announced that Trump would be sworn by Chief Justice John Roberts, using two books.

The first — embossed with his name — was given to Trump by his mother when he graduated from New York’s Sunday Church Primary School in 1955.

Trump will also place his hand on the same Bible used by Lincoln at his first inauguration ceremony in 1861.
“President-elect Trump is humbled to place his hand on Bibles that hold special meaning both to his family and to our country,” said Trump’s pointman for the inauguration ceremony Tom Barrack.

The Lincoln Bible was also used by US President Barack Obama when he was sworn in as president in 2009 and then again after re-election in 2013.


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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump, for a change, has made the right choice, Gen Mattis is the right man for the job, he knows what is going on in the Middle East (*Link*)….*what the Russian are up to*, and how important it is to win the Afghan war.
> 
> He is rightly called, a warrior, scholar and straight shooter.


Told you so,

During confirmation hearing, General Mattis testified that Russia remains the principal threat faced by the United States, taking a much harder line than Trump.

Mattis said Russia, China and Islamist militants were presenting the biggest challenge to the U.S.-led world order since World War Two, and called for Congress to lift spending caps undermining military readiness.

"I'm all for engagement but we also have to recognize reality in what Russia is up to," Mattis said, adding there were a "decreasing number of areas" where the United States might cooperate with Moscow.

Asked about the main threats to U.S. interests, Mattis said: "I would consider the principle threats to start with Russia."

*Sen. McCain asked*, what do you think we ought to do about Russia, Gen. Mattis? Do you think we ought to maybe have sanctions against Russia all basically set by as we have for the last couple years and watched their aggression, by the way, including their precision guided weapons against hospital in Aleppo, the list goes on and on of their etrocities that have been committed by Putin while we again try a reset. I have watched three Presidents commit themselves to new relationships with Putin, all three have been and abysmal failure. Should we ignore the lesson of history, what should we be doing?

*Gen. Mattis reply,* Chairman, history is not the straitjacket but I have never found a better guide for the way ahead than studying the history. We have a long list of times we have tried to engage positively with Russia. We have a relatively short list of successes in that regard. And I think right now the most important thing is that we recognize the reality of what we deal with, Mr. Putin and we recognize that he is trying to break the North Atlantic alliance. *Link*






CBU-105 said:


> He's just trolling the media, toying with them.


Yeah, in other words, the incoming President of a superpower is a troll, right? As a foreigner, you most probably don’t care, but his early morning twitter tantrums are raising concerns at home and abroad.



> skipping briefings is no biggie when he's surrounded by people who are getting briefed daily, not like he can do anything till he takes office anyway, so for now he's busy building a cabinet.


Actually, the early briefing is very important, the whole idea of the early briefings to the elected President before the transition is as a way of deepening his understanding of national security threats facing the nation and it is extremely valuable to have before he steps into the White House.

Even though, VP Pence was regularly getting briefings, but it had not stopped Trump from disgracefully and ignorantly criticizing our intelligence community. It was only after he met intelligence community face to face that Trump accepted their assertion that Russia was deeply involved in undermining our election process.



> reducing tensions between the worlds two foremost military and nuclear superpowers, seems to me he has a pretty good grasp of important international issues.


No one in their right mind is opposed to more cooperation between the two countries, but the question is, at what cost, should we ignore their interference in our elections and their aggression in Europe?! And I always wonder, when it comes to Russia, why Trump always talks like little red riding hood, where all his bravado goes, why is he so scared of Putin, what is he hiding.

By calling NATO “obsolete”, criticizing European Community and Germany, trying to demoralize our intelligence community, does not seem like the man knows **** about international issues.




> amazing how the democrats have now become the party of war and keep pushing a false terrorist narrative on Syria while Trump makes peace.


That’s not true, If you have the time watch the confirmation hearing of Trump’s most important nominees, when it comes to Russia, it’s a bipartisan viewpoint.


Defense Secretary Confirmation Hearing General James Mattis (Retired) *Link*

Secretary of State Confirmation Hearing Rex Tillerson. *Link*

Central Intelligence Agency Director Confirmation Hearing Mike Pompeo. *Link*



cloud4000 said:


> We should be thankful that US is a republic and not a democracy. Democracy to me means mob rule. I can only imagine what damage Trump would cause in a parliamentary system.


The USA is a republic and a democracy: *Link Link*

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## LA se Karachi

*Poll: Trump will take office as most unpopular president in at least 4 decades*
_
By Dan Balz and Scott Clement _


After a tumultuous campaign and transition, President-elect Donald Trump will take the oath of office Friday as the least-popular incoming president in at least four decades, but a majority of Americans nevertheless express optimism that he will be able to fulfill campaign pledges to boost the economy and deal with threats of terrorism, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll.

Amid controversy and calls for additional investigations into possible Russian interference in the election, most Americans disapprove of Trump’s response to the hacking and other activities. But they are divided on the question of whether the president-elect has been too friendly toward Russia or taken the right approach in his public comments and posture.

On ethical matters, a bare majority say the steps Trump and his attorney outlined last week to turn over control of his sprawling business enterprise to his children create adequate separation while he serves as president. But the public is split almost evenly on whether he and his family are fully complying with federal ethics laws, and an overwhelming majority say he should release his federal tax returns, which he has long declined to do.

[ _Read full Post-ABC poll results_ ]







The Post-ABC survey offers a starting point and a measuring stick for a Trump presidency. As in the campaign, Trump is a polarizing figure who generates great enthusiasm among those who support him and deep hostility among those who do not. Attitudes toward Trump, along with deep partisan divisions that predated his candidacy, provide the backdrop for Friday’s ceremonies at the Capitol and the opening days of the 45th president’s tenure.

On the eve of his inauguration, 44 percent of Americans say they believe Trump is qualified to serve as president, compared with 52 percent who say he is not. The good news for Trump is that the 52 percent figure is the lowest since he became a candidate.

Trump will enter the Oval Office on Friday with his image upside down. Just 40 percent say they have a favorable impression of him, and 54 percent view him unfavorably — with 41 percent saying they have a strongly unfavorable impression of him. That is starkly different from current views of President Obama, whose favorable rating is at 61 percent.

Compared with other presidents, Trump’s handling of the transition has been judged harshly by respondents. As with his favorable rating, 40 percent say they approve and 54 percent disapprove. In comparison, roughly 8 in 10 approved of the way Obama and former presidents Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush handled their transitions. And about 7 in 10 approved of the way former president George W. Bush handled his, even though it came amid the rancorous 37-day recount of ballots in Florida and a controversial Supreme Court decision that helped put him in the Oval Office.








Independents have not rallied behind Trump, a change from what has consistently been the case for past presidents. But another reason for Trump’s lower-than-average numbers is that some segments of his political base are less enthusiastic than might be expected. Only 56 percent of conservatives give him positive marks on the transition, and only 62 percent say they have a favorable impression of him.

The transition has been dominated by the intelligence community’s report that concluded the Russians were responsible for hacking the Democratic National Committee and the private email of John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman, with the goal of helping Trump.

The Post-ABC poll finds that 64 percent of Americans believe that Russia was responsible for hacking Clinton campaign emails, and 45 percent think that was intended to boost Trump. More than 8 in 10 Democrats polled say the Russians were responsible, with three-quarters of all Democrats saying they believe that Moscow sought to undermine Clinton and aid Trump. Not quite half of the Republicans polled say the Russians were behind what happened, with about 1 in 5 saying they think the goal was to help the president-elect.

There are similar partisan divisions on Trump’s approach to the Russians. More than 2 in 3 Democrats say he is being too cozy in his treatment of Russia, while 3 in 4 Republicans say his posture has been about right — that from a party whose leaders have historically shown significant hostility toward that country.

On individual issues, however, the picture is strikingly different. Trump’s campaign slogan, “Make America Great Again,” has generated hope among many Americans that on economic issues at least he will be able to do just that.

Roughly 6 in 10 say they expect the New York businessman to do an excellent or good job in handling the economy and creating jobs. He has said repeatedly that both will be top priorities of his presidency. At the same time, he has stressed his determination to defeat the Islamic State and protect the country from threats of terrorism. The Post-ABC survey found that 56 percent of Americans say they think he will do a good or excellent job on that front.







On other issues, the outlook is less positive. The public appears about evenly divided on whether Trump will do well or not well in his nominations to the Supreme Court. Half of all Americans express optimism about how he will handle the federal budget deficit and help the middle class. Slightly more than half have negative views about how he would handle an international crisis and whether he can improve the health-care system.

His lowest ratings come on two areas that have been controversial since he first announced his candidacy in the summer of 2015: race relations and handling issues of concern to women.

Fifty-seven percent of Americans say they do not think he will do a good job on race relations. Those opinions came on a weekend in which Trump clashed with Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), the civil rights icon who had told NBC’s Chuck Todd that he did not regard Trump as a legitimate president because of Russian interference in the election.

Meanwhile, just over 6 in 10 say they do not think he will do a good job dealing with issues of special concern to women.

Trump’s policy agenda draws mixed assessments in terms of support or opposition. On immigration, for example, 6 in 10 Americans oppose his call for building a wall on the U.S.-Mexican border, one of the signature initiatives of his campaign. But over 7 in 10 support his call to deport roughly 2 million undocumented immigrants who have been convicted of a crime, a continuation of Obama administration policy but with a faster pace of deportations.

Majorities oppose his campaign recommendation to ban most Muslims who are not U.S. citizens from entering the country or the possibility of having the United States withdraw from the international treaty addressing climate change. A plurality of Americans say they oppose withdrawing from the nuclear agreement with Iran.

Americans are closely divided on repealing the Affordable Care Act, with 46 percent in support and 47 percent opposed, according to the survey. Two-thirds of repeal supporters say this should not occur before a replacement is created.

Where Trump finds support is on some of his economic initiatives. The Post-ABC poll finds small majorities support both his call to renegotiate the North American Free Trade Agreement and taking punitive action against companies that shift jobs from the United States to other countries. On taxes, majorities of Americans support cuts for the middle class and those with lower incomes and oppose cuts for higher-income taxpayers, while the public is split about evenly over cutting business taxes.

One pattern first seen during the presidential campaign continues to shape attitudes as Trump prepares to become president: a division among white Americans based on levels of education. In general on questions in the new poll, whites without college degrees expressed considerably more support for Trump than whites with college degrees.


_Emily Guskin contributed to this report.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...3375f271c9c_story.html?utm_term=.18b6d73e472a_

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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> Yeah, in other words, the incoming President of a superpower is a troll, right? As a foreigner, you most probably don’t care, but his early morning twitter tantrums are raising concerns at home and abroad.


No, he's a genius, which is why he'll be President of the United States of 'Murrica tomorrow. Trump is not going to be bullied by the media.

As a foreigner, I'm mostly concerned about how he handles your foreign policy, and I absolutely love what he's said so far on the big issues and conflicts concerning the world.

His early morning/late night tweets are not 'tantrums', that's how he manipulates the news cycle, and the mainstream media fall for it every-single-time, it's quite hilarious to see him toy with them. 



RabzonKhan said:


> Actually, the early briefing is very important, the whole idea of the early briefings to the elected President before the transition is as a way of deepening his understanding of national security threats facing the nation and it is extremely valuable to have before he steps into the White House.
> 
> Even though, VP Pence was regularly getting briefings, but it had not stopped Trump from disgracefully and ignorantly criticizing our intelligence community. It was only after he met intelligence community face to face that Trump accepted their assertion that Russia was deeply involved in undermining our election process.



He's gone after some of the leadership in the intelligence community, the anti Trump the partisan hacks, not your undercover agents all over the world. I thought he made a great point about the Iraq wmd fiasco. 



RabzonKhan said:


> No one in their right mind is opposed to more cooperation between the two countries, but the question is, at what cost, should we ignore their interference in our elections and their aggression in Europe?! And I always wonder, when it comes to Russia, why Trump always talks like little red riding hood, where all his bravado goes, why is he so scared of Putin, what is he hiding.
> 
> By calling NATO “obsolete”, criticizing European Community and Germany, trying to demoralize our intelligence community, does not seem like the man knows **** about international issues.



I don't think he's scared of Putin, he's just beginning a process of rapprochement with Russia, and that is a good thing for the world. 

He wants his NATO partners to pay their fair share, I don't see too much wrong in that.

Russian aggression in Ukraine ? I thought that was legit, the Obama admin and the CIA orchestrated a coup to oust the legitimate (no matter how corrupt) Yanukovych government in Ukraine. Trump knows the score "the people of Crimea, want to be with Russia" 

His anti EU stance is also great, he's making the idea of the sovereign nation state great again. 

So far he's promising to bring the 'hope and change' that Obama failed so miserably to deliver on.

Tomorrow the fairy tale ends and his real work begins, let's see how he does, be open minded and give him a chance, he's not as bad as you (and a lot of other people) are making him out to be. 



LA se Karachi said:


> *Poll: Trump will take office as most unpopular president in at least 4 decades*




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/821344302651555840


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## LA se Karachi

CBU-105 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/821344302651555840









All pollsters are showing this. They have been ever since he entered the Presidential race. He is disliked by most people, if you lived here you would know. But some people will only see what they want to see.

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## CBU-105

LA se Karachi said:


> All pollsters are showing this. They have been ever since he entered the Presidential race. He is disliked by most people, if you lived *here *you would know. But some people will only see what they want to see.


In LA ? probably.

all I see is that he won, big league.


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## LA se Karachi

CBU-105 said:


> In LA ? probably.
> 
> all I see is that he won, big league.




No, all across the country. And if you consider receiving almost 3 million fewer votes than a strongly-disliked Hillary Clinton as winning "big league", there's not much more I can say.


Hillary received 65,844,954 votes *(48%)* to Trump's 62,979,879 votes *(46%)*.







People don't like him. They never did.

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## CBU-105

LA se Karachi said:


> No, all across the country. And if you consider receiving almost 3 million fewer votes than a strongly-disliked Hillary Clinton as winning "big league", there's not much more I can say.
> 
> 
> Hillary received 65,844,954 votes *(48%)* to Trump's 62,979,879 votes *(46%)*.


304 to 227 in the electoral college, and that's the one that mattered. Trumped her by a solid 77 



LA se Karachi said:


> People don't like him. They never did.


some of you lot, true.

Don't you want him to do well ? He'll bring back yer jerbs and everything  

All I ever wanted from the start was to see a Trump-Putin tag team vs ISIS and co. It begins in T-2 days, can't wait.


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## LA se Karachi

CBU-105 said:


> 304 to 227 in the electoral college, and that's the one that mattered. Trumped her by a solid 77




True, though he won a few pivotal states by very close margins. But yes, he won the Electoral College and will be the next President of the United States. I don't dispute that, obviously.



CBU-105 said:


> some of you lot, true.




*Most* of us, by roughly a 55-40% margin.


CBU-105 said:


> Don't you want him to do well ?




I do, but his tweeting tantrums and actions after winning the election show that he won't, it seems.


CBU-105 said:


> He'll bring back yer jerbs and everything




I doubt it. He doesn't support any policies that would accomplish that.

However, there are plenty of jobs in America. The problem is that they don't pay enough. Income gains in this country have been quite concentrated at the very top (huge gains) over the past 35 years. Meanwhile, income for the bottom 90% has _decreased_ slightly. Trump hasn't even committed to raising the minimum wage, and tax-payers continue to subsidize low-wage workers on welfare and the multi-billion dollar corporations that they work for.


CBU-105 said:


> All I ever wanted from the start was to see a Trump-Putin tag team vs ISIS and co. It begins in T-2 days, can't wait.




Good luck with that....

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## Zibago

*Trump EPA pick: still 'some debate' over human role in climate change*


At Senate confirmation hearing to lead Environmental Protection Agency, Scott Pruitt defends his relationship with fossil fuel industry


Scott Pruitt confirmation hearing: the key points




Scott Pruitt testifies on Capitol Hill. The Oklahoma attorney general has sued the EPA 14 times over regulations. Photograph: Aaron P. Bernstein/Getty Images
Oliver Milman in New York


Wednesday 18 January 2017 20.15 GMTLast modified on Wednesday 18 January 2017 20.33 GMT

*Shares*
2,310

Scott Pruitt, Donald Trump’s pick to lead the US Environmental Protection Agency, has claimed there is still “some debate” over the role of human activity in climate change and has defended his relationship with the fossil fuel industry during a combative Senate confirmation hearing.

Pruitt, the Oklahoma attorney general, has sued the agency he is now set to lead 14 times over the EPA’s smog, mercury and other pollution regulations. Several of these cases are still ongoing and Pruitt said he would recuse himself in dealing with these cases if instructed to do so by the EPA’s ethics board.

In testy exchanges with senators including Bernie Sanders and Ed Markey, Pruitt said there was “some debate” over how much influence human activity has upon the climate but rejected the president-elect’s claim that climate change is a “hoax”. Pruitt also said the EPA had a “very important role” in regulating carbon dioxide.

“Science tells us that the climate is changing and that human activity in some manner impacts that change,” he said. “The ability to measure with precision the degree and extent of that impact and what to do about it are subject to continuing debate and dialogue ... so it should be.”

Last year was the warmest on record, scientists announced on Wednesday, with Nasa and Noaa both stressing the primary driver of the warming trend is the burning of fossil fuels and other human activity. Of the 17 hottest years on record, 16 have occurred this century.

Pruitt also seemed uncertain over how much lead can be safely ingested by children, in the wake of the toxic water crisis in Flint, Michigan. “I don’t know,” Pruitt said. “I’ve not looked at the scientific research on that. That’s not something I’ve reviewed nor know about.” The EPA itself states that any amount of lead consumption can be harmful.

Democrats on the Senate committee on environment and public works questioned Pruitt over his repeated challenges to the agency he now seeks to head, as well as his ties to the fossil fuel industry. The oil giant Exxon and coal firm Murray Energy have both given the maximum allowable amount of money to Pruitt, with the Oklahoma attorney general siding with donors 13 times in court cases against the EPA.

One Oklahoma firm, Devon Energy, even drafted a letter for Pruitt that he sent on to the EPA in 2011 under his letterhead with minimal alterations. The letter criticized federal regulations on greenhouse gas emissions from oil and gas producers. A boom in gas fracking activity in Oklahoma has contributed to a surge in earthquakes in the state.

Questioned over this letter by Democrat Jeff Merkley, Pruitt said: “I was representing the interests of the state. It was protecting the interests of the state, it wasn’t sent on behalf of any one company. It was particular to an industry – there’s an oil and gas industry that is vibrant and vital to the state.”

In his opening statement, Pruitt said: “We must reject as a nation the false paradigm that if you’re pro-energy you’re anti-environment and that if you’re pro-environment you’re anti-energy. In this nation we can grow our economy, harvest the resources God has blessed us with as well as being good stewards of the land, air of water by which we’ve been favored.”

Pruitt said he wanted a better partnership with the states, which he said had been subject to “duress and punishment” from the EPA. He said the states had the “resources and expertise” to safeguard America’s environment but accepted that pollution does cross state lines.

Republicans on the committee backed Pruitt, with Senator James Inhofe, who once brought a snowball to the senate floor in an attempt to disprove global warming, citing Pruitt’s fighting of “federal overreach” as praiseworthy. Fellow Republican attorney generals from other states have also supported Pruitt’s nomination.

However, Christine Todd Whitman, who was EPA administrator under George W Bush, warned there may be “war” within the agency unless Pruitt adopted a more conciliatory posture.

“I wish he hadn’t been nominated,” Whitman, a Republican, told Guardian US. “Mother Nature doesn’t care about states’ rights. You need some area of federal oversight to protect human health and the environment. You can’t just turn it back to the states; most of them don’t have the budget to do the scientific research.

“I think this new administration will try to back down some of the regulations and slow down enforcement of the regulations they don’t like. They will starve the agency for money.

“I would hope that Scott Pruitt will understand how important and complicated the EPA is once he gets in there but EPA people are assuming it will be a war. That won’t be pretty for anyone. Unless he makes real strides to outreach and respect the mission, it will be war.”

Thirteen former state EPA chiefs have urged the Senate to reject Pruitt, citing his “deeply troubling” position on climate change and his repeated courtroom challenges to EPA clean air and water standards.

“Rather than EPA acting as our partner in state-led efforts to ensure clean air and water for our residents, we fear that an EPA under Mr Pruitt would undermine the rules that help to make sure that our state regulations are successful,” the group wrote in a letter to the environment and public works committee.

More than 170 environment groups, including the Sierra Club and the Clean Air Task Force, have written a separate missive to senators decrying Pruitt’s views that “run counter to the EPA’s critical mission to protect our health and the environment”. The letter also calls for the Senate to reject the Oklahoma attorney general.

Pruitt is the “worst nominee ever tapped to lead the US Environmental Protection Agency”, according to Rhea Suh, president of the Natural Resources Defense Council.

“He doesn’t have a single environmental achievement to his name, doesn’t believe in the agency’s mission, and has made a career out of suing the EPA to try to block it from doing its job as the guardian of our environment and health,” she added.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-change-debate-confirmation-hearing?CMP=fb_gu
Trump has surrounded himself with American Mian Manshas 
@The Sandman @The Eagle @PaklovesTurkiye @Hell hound @Moonlight @Farah Sohail

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## The Eagle

Zibago said:


> Trump has surrounded himself with American Mian Manshas



They have been doing the same to others, seems like time has come to avenge the past..... Interesting times ahead and yeah, I mean not very peaceful that we can only hope as when corporate becomes priority than the need and people, we see a transition that claims many lives or even states...... Let's hope for the peace and humanity..... Not just this EPA picks but he has done many surprises in other selections as well that are mostly related with money/business and has nothing to do with ground realities...he sees everything with earning, business or money....


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## Hell hound

Zibago said:


> Trump has surrounded himself with American Mian Manshas


trump himself is american mian mansha

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## Zibago

*Anti-Trump protest in New York ahead of oath-taking*
January 20, 2017

By: Samaa Web Desk

Published in Global

Be the first to comment!















00:00





00:00







*New York: A-list celebrities joined several thousand protesters on the streets of New York on Thursday night to demonstrate against Donald Trump on the eve of the incoming Republican president's inauguration.*

Hollywood actors Robert de Niro and Alec Baldwin, Oscar-winning director Michael Moore and singer Cher were among those who joined the noisy gathering close to the Trump International Hotel on Central Park South.

A crowd of several thousand people thronged Columbus Circle and Central Park West, the boulevard outside the five-star hotel.

"Fight Trump every day" and "justice and civil rights for all," read placards at the rally in the president-elect's hometown, where a majority of people voted for his Democratic rival Hillary Clinton in last year's election.

Baldwin, who lampoons Trump in a regular slot on comedy TV show "Saturday Night Live" to rave reviews and repeated Twitter drubbings from the thin-skinned Republican billionaire, took to the podium to do his Trump impression.

"Are we going to have 100 days of resistance?" he said, revving up the crowd and switching to his regular voice. "Fantastic!" he hollered.

"He does not rule with a mandate," Moore said in reference to Clinton's win of the popular vote and Americans who voted for independent candidates.

"We are the majority. Don't give up. I won't give up," he said.

"He will not last four years."

De Niro also sought to inspire the crowd to not waver in their convictions.

"Whatever happens, we Americans, we New Yorkers, we patriots, will stand united for our rights and for the rights of our fellow citizens," he said.

Mayor Bill de Blasio, a Democrat, issued a rallying cry for progressive politics and urged Americans across the country to rise up and make their objections to the incoming administration heard.

"Donald Trump always liked to say he built a movement, well now it's time for us to build our movement and that starts tonight and it's all over the country, tonight, tomorrow and in the days to come," de Blasio said.

He championed universal healthcare, protecting the world from climate change and preserving rights gained under the outgoing Barack Obama administration.

"Look at the thousands here tonight and that is only the beginning," he added.

A poll released by Quinnipiac University said 46 percent of New York voters want to mayor to try to get along with the president-elect while 45 percent believe he should be a national leader against Trump's policies.

Graphic designer Patrick Mavros, a member of the crowd, said it was a demonstration against the Trump administration and what his cabinet -- predominantly white, wealthy and male -- stands for.

"Anywhere from LGBT rights to women's rights to Muslim rights. I think it's a symbol that people will not be standing idly and let them get away with what they want. We will be watching and hold them accountable," he told AFP.

"We are here because we feel we're going to lose all these gains from the past 50 years -- civil rights, freedom of speech, healthcare, women's rights, world peace, you name it," said Carol Bay, a therapist attending with her wife.

"We're going to lose it all because they've been asking to take them back for all these years," she said in reference to Republicans. - AFP 
https://www.samaa.tv/international/2017/01/anti-trump-protest-new-york-oath-taking-us/


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## F-22Raptor

Melania is looking stunningly beautiful today.


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## CBU-105

The Young Turks and Infowars live:


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## Akasa

We are merely 45 minutes away from a key junction in US history. FOX is streaming it live and has fairly good background commentary.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Lot of Bible and Jesus talk to calm down protestors

Quite the undertones , one side you have ...**** grabbing trump with his superficial Beauti shows and then here we are talking about God

Quite interesting 

3-4 Religious clerics !!!! Yikes , and 1 Jewish cleric 

Kinda feeling left out , where is a good Muslim Cleric we keep hearing about? 
Not good enough to be in presentation


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## INDIAPOSITIVE

*'We will eradicate radical, Islamic terrorism completely from the earth' *
Mr Trump states he plans to “eradicate” radical Islamist terorrism “completely from the earth”;

We do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone - we will shine, for everyone. 

We must speak our minds openly, debate honestly.

There should be no fear. We are protected and we will always be protected. We are protected by the great men and women of our law enforcement. And most importantly we will be protected by God. 

5:17pm
*'We must think big and dream even bigger'*
The time for talk is over, now begins the hour of action.

We stand at the birth of a new millennium: A new national pride will lift ourselves.. and heal our division.

Whether we are black, brown or white, we all bleed the same red blood of patriots.

5:15pm
*'Winning like never before'*
Mr Trump says he will build new roads, bridges, airports, railways "with American hands and American labour":

We will bring back our borders, we will bring back our wealth and we will bring back our dreams...

When you open your heart to patriotism there is no room for prejudice.

5:11pm
*'American carnage stops right here and right now'*
Mr Trump details his 'America First' strategy:

We've defended other nations' borders while refusing to defend out own and spent trillions of dollars overseas while America's infrastructure falls into decay.

One by one the factories shuttered and left our shoes..

The wealth of the middle class has been ripped from their homes and redistributed all over the world - but that is the past and we are looking now only to the future.

5:06pm
*Citizens of the world: Thank you! *
Mr Trump address the world and begins by stating he will remove power from Washington and "give it back to the people":

Together we will determine the course of America and the world for many, many years to come...

We are transferring power from Washington DC and giving back to you, the people!

This moment is your moment, it belongs to you.

5:00pm
*DONALD J. TRUMP IS SWORN IN AND BECOMES 45TH PRESIDENT OF AMERICA*
Mr Trump places his hands on two Bibles and takes the Oath of Office:

I Donald J Trump do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States and will to the best of my ability preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the United States, so help me God.

It's official. Trump is president.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/20/donald-trump-inauguration-speech-live/


*Full Text of Donald Trump's Inauguration Speech*
Chief Justice Roberts, President Carter, President Clinton, President Bush, President Obama, fellow Americans and people of the world, thank you. 

We, the citizens of America, are now joined in a great national effort to rebuild our country and restore its promise for all of our people. Together we will determine the course of America and the world for many, many years to come. 

We will face challenges. We will confront hardships. But we will get the job done. Every four years, we gather on these steps to carry out the orderly and peaceful transfer of power. 

And we are grateful to President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama for their gracious aid throughout this transition. They have been magnificent. Thank you. 

Today's ceremony, however, has very special meaning. Because today, we are not merely transferring power from one administration to another or from one party to another. 

But we are transferring power from Washington, D.C., and giving it back to you, the people. 

For too long, a small group in our nation's capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have borne the cost. Washington flourished, but the people did not share in its wealth. Politicians prospered, but the jobs left. And the factories closed. 

The establishment protected itself but not the citizens of our country. Their victories have not been your victories. Their triumphs have not been your triumphs. And while they celebrated in our nation’s capital, there was little to celebrate for struggling families all across our land. That all changes starting right here and right now. Because this moment is your moment. It belongs to you.

It belongs to everyone gathered here today and everyone watching all across America. This is your day. This is your celebration. And this, the United States of America, is your country. 

What truly matters is not which party controls our government but whether our government is controlled by the people. January 20th, 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again. 

The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer. 

Everyone is listening to you now. You came by the tens of millions to become part of a historic movement, the likes of which the world has never seen before. 

At the center of this movement is a crucial conviction -- that a nation exist to serve its citizens. Americans want great schools for their children, safe neighborhoods for their families and good jobs for themselves. 

These are just and reasonable demands of righteous people and a righteous public. But for too many of our citizens, a different reality exist. Mothers and children trapped in poverty in our inner cities, rusted out factories scattered like tombstones across the landscape of our nation, an education system flushed with cash but which leaves our young and beautiful students deprived of all knowledge. And the crime, and the gangs, and the drugs that have stolen too many lives and robbed our country of so much unrealized potential. This American carnage stops right here and stops right now. 

We are one nation, and their pain is our pain. Their dreams are our dreams, and their success will be our success. We share one heart, one home and one glorious destiny. 

The oath of office I take today is an oath of allegiance to all Americans. For many decades, we've enriched foreign industry at the expense of American industry, subsidized the armies of other countries while allowing for the very sad depletion of our military. 

We defended other nation’s borders while refusing to defend our own. 

And spent trillions and trillions of dollars overseas while America's infrastructure has fallen into disrepair and decay. 

We've made other countries rich while the wealth, strength, and confidence of our country has dissipated over the horizon. One by one, the factories shuttered and left our shores with not even a thought about the millions and millions of American workers that were left behind. 

The wealth of our middle class has been ripped from their homes and then redistributed all across the world. 

But that is the past and now we are looking only to the future. 

We assembled here today are issuing a new decree to be heard in every city, in every foreign capital and in every hall of power. From this day forward, a new vision will govern our land. From this day forward, it's going to be only America first -- America first. 

Every decision on trade, on taxes, on immigration, on foreign affairs will be made to benefit American workers and American families. We must protect our borders from the ravages of other countries making our products, stealing our companies and destroying our jobs. 

Protection will lead to great prosperity and strength. I will fight for you with every breath in my body. And I will never, ever let you down. 

America will start winning again, winning like never before. 

We will bring back our jobs. We will bring back our borders. We will bring back our wealth, and we will bring back our dreams. We will build new roads and highways and bridges and airports and tunnels and railways all across our wonderful nation. We will get our people off of welfare and back to work rebuilding our country with American hands and American labor. We will follow two simple rules -- buy American and hire American. 

We will seek friendship and goodwill with the nations of the world. 

But we do so with the understanding that it is the right of all nations to put their own interests first. We do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone but rather to let it shine as an example. We will shine for everyone to follow. 

We will reinforce old alliances and form new ones. And unite the civilized world against radical Islamic terrorism, which we will eradicate completely from the face of the earth 

At the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States of America and through our loyalty to our country, we will rediscover our loyalty to each other. When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice. 

The Bible tells us how good and pleasant it is when God's people live together in unity. We must speak our minds openly, debate our disagreement honestly but always pursue solidarity. When America is united, America is totally unstoppable. 

There should be no fear. We are protected, and we will always be protected. We will be protected by the great men and women of our military and law enforcement. And most importantly, we will be protected by God. 

Finally, we must think big and dream even bigger. In America, we understand that a nation is only living as long as it is striving. We will no longer accept politicians who are all talk and no action, constantly complaining but never doing anything about it. 

The time for empty talk is over. Now arrives the hour of action. 

Do not allow anyone to tell you that it cannot be done. No challenge can match the heart and fight and spirit of America. We will not fail. Our country will thrive and prosper again. We stand at the birth of a new millennium, ready to unlock the mysteries of space, to free the earth from the miseries of disease and to harness the energies, industries and technologies of tomorrow. A new national pride will stir ourselves, lift our sights and heal our divisions. It’s time to remember that old wisdom our soldiers will never forget -- that whether we are black or brown or white, we all bleed the same red blood of patriots. 

We all enjoy the same glorious freedoms, and we all salute the same great American flag. 

And whether a child is born in the urban sprawl of Detroit or the windswept plains of Nebraska, they look up at the same night sky, they fill their heart with the same dreams and they are infused with the breath of life by the same Almighty Creator. 

So to all Americans in every city near and far, small and large, from mountain to mountain, from ocean to ocean, hear these words -- you will never be ignored again. 

Your voice, your hopes and your dreams will define our American destiny. Together, And your courage and goodness and love will forever guide us along the way. We will make America strong again. We will make America wealthy again. We will make America proud again. We will make America safe again. And yes, together, thank you. we will make America great again. God bless you. And God bless America. Thank You.




http://www.iagreetosee.com/portfolio/donald-trumps-inauguration-day-speech-full-text-video/


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## YeBeWarned

If he do what he say he will ... that would be good for his country and other countries . Mind your OWN business , Stop Funding Terror Groups , Rebels , Stop Toppling Govt's , Stop supporting Dick-tators , and bring your Troops back home ..

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## YeBeWarned

GiannKall said:


> Send troops in Afghanistan...



For what ? American Cant Control Afghanistan. even with their Entire Army


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## CBU-105

quite the hyper nationalist speech, murrican leftists must've died a million deaths, and them some.





I liked that he threw the whole, 'we're not going to be interventionists/force our shite on others' bit in there.

we'll find out how much of it turns out to be total bs or if he is the real deal in the months and years ahead, obama sure turned out to be a total liar slimeball.

but cool, mashallah, we finally have *President Trump ! *





unbelievable, bastard finally cemented his place in history forever lol. 

I'd like to see an authoritarian USA led by strongman Trump making deals, supporting and _*installing *_other strongmen in the middle east who will take care of their own messes.. Bashar stays, and Trump and Putin appoint Khalifa Haftar or someone to be Gaddafi 2.0 like in Libya, Trump and Putin invite strongman Erdogan into their dictator club and everyone kills ISIS and FSA, peace in the middle east.

interesting times ahead. 















AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> one side you have ...**** grabbing trump with his superficial Beauti shows and then here we are talking about God


those don't have to be mutually exclusive.

who the hell do you think made puszy ?


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## Hindustani78

http://zeenews.india.com/americas/d...quotes-from-his-inaugural-speech_1969194.html

Washington: Donald Trump was sworn-in as the 45th President of the United States on Friday, capping a roller-coaster journey he began as a political outsider.


Trump, 70, took the oath of office in front of about 800,000 people who braved chilly weather to gather on the National Mall in the center of the capital to celebrate the rank political outsider, who defied all odds to defeat political heavyweight Hillary Clinton in the November polls.

Here are the top 10 quotes from his speech:


"This moment is your moment, it belongs to you...We are transferring power from Washington DC and giving it back to you," Donald Trump told a large crowd.
January 20, 2017 will be remembered as the day people became the rulers of this nation.
From this day forward a new vision will govern our land...From this day forward it`s going to be only America First.
Politicians prospered, but the jobs left and the factories closed. The establishment protected itself, but not the citizens of our country. Their victories have not been your victories. Their triumphs have not been your triumphs. And while they celebrated in our nation's capital, there was little to celebrate for struggling families all across our land.
The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer.
Together, we will determine the course of America and the world for many, many years to come. We will face challenges, we will confront hardships, but we will get the job done.
We will follow two rules-Buy American and Hire American.
Whether we are black or brown or white, we all bleed the same red blood of patriots.
We will reinforce old alliances and form new ones and unite the civilized world against radical Islamic terrorism, which we will eradicate completely from the face of the earth.
Together we will make America strong again. We will make America wealthy again. We will make America proud again. We will make America safe again. And, yes, together, we will make America great again.

First Published: Friday, January 20, 2017 - 23:26


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## Doctor-D

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1449365541763197

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hindustani78



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Deidara

Listening to Bush and now Trump i thought republicans like science more than democrats. Cause obviously from now onward Trump's speeches are not his alone but republican as well.


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## Hindustani78

President Pranab Mukherjee on Friday took to Twitter to congratulate President Donald J Trump as he took office as the 45th president of the United States of America.

Congratulating Trump President Mukherjee tweeted: “@*realDonaldTrump* Hearty congratulations on assumption of office as 45th President of USA.”



Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Friday tweeted congratulating President Donald Trump. Donald Trump was sworn in as the 45th President of the United States during a historic transfer of power.

“Congratulations Donald Trump on assuming office as US President. Best wishes in leading USA to greater achievements in the coming years,” PM Modi tweeted. Looking forward to working with President Trump to further deepen India-US ties and realise the full potential of our cooperation, he said in another tweet.

President Barack Obama, first lady Michelle Obama, President-elect Donald Trump and Melania Trump stand at the White House in Washington, Friday, Jan. 20, 2017. (AP Photo/Evan Vucci)


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## LA se Karachi

Awkward...

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## CBU-105

CNN now.. so much love for the Trumps, Melania, the family, glorious murrican democracy, ooohh


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Little boys is confused why Daddy using that mysterious book


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## EgyptianAmerican

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> View attachment 370146
> 
> 
> Little boys is confused why Daddy using that mysterious book




Democrats in general


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## RabzonKhan

American democracy! 




President Donald Trump shakes former Sec. of State Hillary Clinton's hand and thanks her.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/822472212569616385

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## Hindustani78

Prime Minister's Office
21-January, 2017 08:47 IST
*PM congratulates Donald Trump on his assumption of office as President of the USA*

The Prime Minister, Shri Narendra Modi has congratulated Mr. Donald Trump on his assumption of office as President of the United States of America.

"Congratulations to Donald Trump on assuming office as US President. Best wishes in leading USA to greater achievements in the coming years.

Strength of the India-USA strategic partnership lies in our shared values and common interests.

Looking forward to working with President to further deepen India-US ties & realise the full potential of our cooperation", the Prime Minister said.

***

Vice President's Secretariat
21-January, 2017 10:14 IST
*Vice President Congratulates American Vice President *



The Vice President of India, Shri M. Hamid Ansari has extended congratulations to his American counterpart, Mr. Michael R. Pence on assuming office of the Vice President of the United States of America, here today. While conveying a strong desire for working together in promoting bilateral relations, the Vice President has extended an invitation for the American Vice President to visit India at an early date.

Following is the text of Vice President’s message:


“Please accept my heartiest congratulations on your assumption of office as the Vice President of the United States of America. I am confident that under your leadership, our strong and deep relations will scale new heights. I look forward to working with you in promoting the common interests of our two nations and peoples and take this opportunity to invite you to visit India at your earliest convenience. 

Please accept, Excellency, my best wishes for success in office and for your personal well-being.”


***


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## ahojunk

*POLITICS *| Fri Jan 20, 2017 | 6:31pm EST | Reuters
*Trump is now president, but he still sees himself as leading an insurgency*





_Donald J. Trump arrives at the inauguration ceremonies swearing him in as the 45th president of the United States at the United States Capitol in Washington, D.C., January 20, 2017. REUTERS/Doug Mills/Pool_

By James Oliphant | WASHINGTON

Donald Trump took over as U.S. president on Friday in the same way he conducted his upstart campaign, with a mixture of blustery salesmanship and naked contempt for the established political order.

In doing so, he sent a clear signal to the country and the world: He plans to govern as he campaigned, refusing to align himself even with his own Republican Party and taking his message directly to the American people.

He did nothing to dispel concerns that he would bring the cult of personality he built over the election campaign into the White House, and he offered little in the way of olive branches to the tens of millions of Americans who did not vote for him in the most divisive election in modern U.S. history.

A former reality TV star, Trump offered an apocalyptic vision of reality: an America besieged by crime, immigration, terrorism and unfair trade deals.

"The American carnage stops right here and stops right now," he pledged, as he presented himself as a champion of the ordinary American.

The gloomy picture Trump sketched of the nation flies in the face of evidence that the economy is in healthy shape, crime is down and the nation is relatively safe and secure.

After warning the public on the extent of the problems, Trump suggested, as he did during his campaign, that he and his "movement" are the only solution. He did not mention the Republicans in Congress with whom he will partner to govern and certainly not the Democrats who have fiercely opposed him.

Trump campaigned as an outsider, railing against the sins of both his Republican Party and the Democratic Party. And, it became clear as he delivered his speech on the steps of the Capitol, that he intends to remain that outsider, the rebel leader who takes power with one foot still on the battlefield.

Continuing the populist themes from his campaign, he condemned the politicians who he said have for years prospered at the expense of the public.

He eschewed the high-flying rhetoric typical of such occasions in favor of more blunt, populist declarations.

*ALSO IN POLITICS*

Trump, now president, pledges to put 'America First' in nationalist speech
Violence flares in Washington during Trump inauguration

"Politicians prospered - but the jobs left, and the factories closed," he said. "The establishment protected itself, but not the citizens of our country."

"We are transferring power from Washington D.C. and giving it back to you, the American people."

Aundrea Friedley, 52, of Nampa, Idaho, who was in the crowd watching his speech, likened it to a “powerful punch” and praised Trump for returning power to the people.

Trump won the majority of the U.S. Electoral College vote, but lost the popular vote to his opponent, Hillary Clinton, by nearly 3 million votes, making any attempt to unify the country that much more difficult. 


*'AMERICA FIRST'*

"We assembled here today are issuing a new decree to be heard in every city, in every foreign capital and in every hall of power," Trump said. "From this day forward a new vision will govern our land. From this moment on, it's going to be America First."

His proposals though for ramped-up infrastructure spending, strong border controls and the strong isolationist tone of his speech may not jibe with traditional Republican priorities.

At the same time, however, Trump has assuaged nervous Republicans by selecting a Cabinet that has largely affirmed bedrock conservative principals, and he plans to quickly begin signing executive orders designed to roll back some of former President Barack Obama’s progressive policies.

In Trump's speech, historians said, there were echoes of Franklin D. Roosevelt with Trump mentioning "the forgotten" Americans left behind by the forces of trade and globalization, of Richard Nixon's "silent majority", and of Ronald Reagan’s pledge to restore the nation's greatness.

But, said Julian Zelizer, a historian at Princeton University, there was also "more anger physically and verbally than in the past" with Trump punctuating his speech with pointed hand gestures.

Trump spent little time trying to expand his appeal to the majority of Americans who view him unfavorably, according to opinion polls. Instead, he appeared to speak directly to his most fervent supporters.

His speech perhaps was most reflective of Reagan’s 1981 address, in which the then-president spoke of “economic affliction” and “idle industries.” But Reagan inherited an economy struggling with stagflation and an unemployment rate of 7.5 percent. By contrast, under the departing Obama, the economy has added private sector jobs in 80 consecutive months and the unemployment rate stands at 4.7 percent.

The picture painted by Trump "is probably not one that every American shares," said Thomas Alan Schwartz, a presidential historian at Vanderbilt University. Still, he said, Trump has tapped into a “sense of national crisis and decline.”

Belinda Bee, 56, came to see Trump from Mooresville, North Carolina, saying she believed he would successfully combat Islamic terrorism and that he would remain a political outsider.

“The country now belongs to the people and not the politicians,” she said.


(Reporting by Ginger Gibson, James Oliphant, Ayesha Rascoe, Roberta Rampton, and Emily Stephenson; Writing by James Oliphant, editing by Kieran Murray and Ross Colvin)
.

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## Hassan Guy

Trump is a great man, truly inspirational.


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## RabzonKhan




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## Dalit

LOL president pu$$y grabber is reality now. Just look at huge protests around the world including the US. Everyone is feeling unsafe. This is just going to be a lot of fun.

Waiting for Trump to deliver on all of his other promises.


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## biloo700

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/822502060717314048


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## LeGenD

ahojunk said:


> The gloomy picture Trump sketched of the nation flies in the face of evidence *that the economy is in healthy shape*, crime is down and the nation is relatively safe and secure.


I stopped reading after the bold part...

That alone should tell you about how much out of touch from the realities are these liberal fascists.


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## Dalit

America is what it is due to its own mistakes. You reap what you sow.

However, Trump is living in a different galaxy. LOL at crime taking place in every street corner and US companies turned to tombstones etc.

Trump you better deliver on all the promises including the Muslim ban and the Mexican wall. We are watching.


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## RabzonKhan

Okay, I was little impressed that was very gracious, I like it.

Trump honors Clinton's during luncheon remarks, Trump said he was honored that former President Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton were in attendance.

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## RabzonKhan

*Protesters pack the Mall for women's march on D.C.

Crowds stretch more than 14 blocks down Independence Avenue to express opposition to President Donald Trump.*

By ELANA SCHOR and MADELINE CONWAY 01/21/17 07:46 AM 


*




Demonstrators flooded into Washington on Saturday to express opposition to President Donald Trump in numbers exceeding the crowd that turned out for his inauguration, cheering for unity but also vowing to press elected Democrats on progressive causes.*

Crowds for the Women’s March on Washington, as the rally is known, stretched more than 14 blocks down Independence Avenue near the National Mall by midday Saturday—a turnout so large that some pockets of attendees began marching in place, anticipating less freedom to move along the anticipated route towards the Washington Monument.

Ridership on D.C.’s metropolitan area transit reached 275,000 as of 11 a.m. Saturday, according to Washington's WMATA transit agency, compared with 193,000 rides as of 11 a.m. on Friday and 513,000 at the same time on former President Barack Obama’s 2009 Inauguration Day.

Despite a pre-march controversy over organizers’ decision to exclude Hillary Clinton from the event’s official honorees, her presence was acknowledged and celebrated by multiple attendees and speakers who supported her presidential bid. Feminist icon Gloria Steinem name-checked both Clinton and Bernie Sanders—whose female supporters Steinem apologized for criticizing during his bitter 2016 Democratic primary battle with Clinton—in her remarks, while pro-Clinton actress and immigrant-rights activist America Ferrera was among the march’s first speakers.

Apparel and signs praising Clinton were visible among the hordes of marchers, but less so than those supporting liberal priorities such as abortion rights, voting rights, environmental protection, and Black Lives Matter. Most common of all by midday were anti-Trump signs, including many savaging his friendliness towards Vladimir Putin and his 2005 remarks that he can grab women “by the pussy” because of his fame.

Indeed, although organizers and early materials downplayed the march’s status as a rebuke of Trump, its slaps at the combative new president were often personal. Steinem portrayed Trump as untrustworthy at best and mentally ill at worst, telling attendees that the president’s “Twitter finger cannot become a trigger finger.” *Read more*










__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/822834279205969921
Womens March NYC


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## mrrehan

kahonapyarhai said:


> *'We will eradicate radical, Islamic terrorism completely from the earth' *
> Mr Trump states he plans to “eradicate” radical Islamist terorrism “completely from the earth”;
> 
> We do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone - we will shine, for everyone.
> 
> We must speak our minds openly, debate honestly.
> 
> There should be no fear. We are protected and we will always be protected. We are protected by the great men and women of our law enforcement. And most importantly we will be protected by God.
> 
> 5:17pm
> *'We must think big and dream even bigger'*
> The time for talk is over, now begins the hour of action.
> 
> We stand at the birth of a new millennium: A new national pride will lift ourselves.. and heal our division.
> 
> Whether we are black, brown or white, we all bleed the same red blood of patriots.
> 
> 5:15pm
> *'Winning like never before'*
> Mr Trump says he will build new roads, bridges, airports, railways "with American hands and American labour":
> 
> We will bring back our borders, we will bring back our wealth and we will bring back our dreams...
> 
> When you open your heart to patriotism there is no room for prejudice.
> 
> 5:11pm
> *'American carnage stops right here and right now'*
> Mr Trump details his 'America First' strategy:
> 
> We've defended other nations' borders while refusing to defend out own and spent trillions of dollars overseas while America's infrastructure falls into decay.
> 
> One by one the factories shuttered and left our shoes..
> 
> The wealth of the middle class has been ripped from their homes and redistributed all over the world - but that is the past and we are looking now only to the future.
> 
> 5:06pm
> *Citizens of the world: Thank you! *
> Mr Trump address the world and begins by stating he will remove power from Washington and "give it back to the people":
> 
> Together we will determine the course of America and the world for many, many years to come...
> 
> We are transferring power from Washington DC and giving back to you, the people!
> 
> This moment is your moment, it belongs to you.
> 
> 5:00pm
> *DONALD J. TRUMP IS SWORN IN AND BECOMES 45TH PRESIDENT OF AMERICA*
> Mr Trump places his hands on two Bibles and takes the Oath of Office:
> 
> I Donald J Trump do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States and will to the best of my ability preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the United States, so help me God.
> 
> It's official. Trump is president.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/20/donald-trump-inauguration-speech-live/
> 
> 
> *Full Text of Donald Trump's Inauguration Speech*
> Chief Justice Roberts, President Carter, President Clinton, President Bush, President Obama, fellow Americans and people of the world, thank you.
> 
> We, the citizens of America, are now joined in a great national effort to rebuild our country and restore its promise for all of our people. Together we will determine the course of America and the world for many, many years to come.
> 
> We will face challenges. We will confront hardships. But we will get the job done. Every four years, we gather on these steps to carry out the orderly and peaceful transfer of power.
> 
> And we are grateful to President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama for their gracious aid throughout this transition. They have been magnificent. Thank you.
> 
> Today's ceremony, however, has very special meaning. Because today, we are not merely transferring power from one administration to another or from one party to another.
> 
> But we are transferring power from Washington, D.C., and giving it back to you, the people.
> 
> For too long, a small group in our nation's capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have borne the cost. Washington flourished, but the people did not share in its wealth. Politicians prospered, but the jobs left. And the factories closed.
> 
> The establishment protected itself but not the citizens of our country. Their victories have not been your victories. Their triumphs have not been your triumphs. And while they celebrated in our nation’s capital, there was little to celebrate for struggling families all across our land. That all changes starting right here and right now. Because this moment is your moment. It belongs to you.
> 
> It belongs to everyone gathered here today and everyone watching all across America. This is your day. This is your celebration. And this, the United States of America, is your country.
> 
> What truly matters is not which party controls our government but whether our government is controlled by the people. January 20th, 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again.
> 
> The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer.
> 
> Everyone is listening to you now. You came by the tens of millions to become part of a historic movement, the likes of which the world has never seen before.
> 
> At the center of this movement is a crucial conviction -- that a nation exist to serve its citizens. Americans want great schools for their children, safe neighborhoods for their families and good jobs for themselves.
> 
> These are just and reasonable demands of righteous people and a righteous public. But for too many of our citizens, a different reality exist. Mothers and children trapped in poverty in our inner cities, rusted out factories scattered like tombstones across the landscape of our nation, an education system flushed with cash but which leaves our young and beautiful students deprived of all knowledge. And the crime, and the gangs, and the drugs that have stolen too many lives and robbed our country of so much unrealized potential. This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.
> 
> We are one nation, and their pain is our pain. Their dreams are our dreams, and their success will be our success. We share one heart, one home and one glorious destiny.
> 
> The oath of office I take today is an oath of allegiance to all Americans. For many decades, we've enriched foreign industry at the expense of American industry, subsidized the armies of other countries while allowing for the very sad depletion of our military.
> 
> We defended other nation’s borders while refusing to defend our own.
> 
> And spent trillions and trillions of dollars overseas while America's infrastructure has fallen into disrepair and decay.
> 
> We've made other countries rich while the wealth, strength, and confidence of our country has dissipated over the horizon. One by one, the factories shuttered and left our shores with not even a thought about the millions and millions of American workers that were left behind.
> 
> The wealth of our middle class has been ripped from their homes and then redistributed all across the world.
> 
> But that is the past and now we are looking only to the future.
> 
> We assembled here today are issuing a new decree to be heard in every city, in every foreign capital and in every hall of power. From this day forward, a new vision will govern our land. From this day forward, it's going to be only America first -- America first.
> 
> Every decision on trade, on taxes, on immigration, on foreign affairs will be made to benefit American workers and American families. We must protect our borders from the ravages of other countries making our products, stealing our companies and destroying our jobs.
> 
> Protection will lead to great prosperity and strength. I will fight for you with every breath in my body. And I will never, ever let you down.
> 
> America will start winning again, winning like never before.
> 
> We will bring back our jobs. We will bring back our borders. We will bring back our wealth, and we will bring back our dreams. We will build new roads and highways and bridges and airports and tunnels and railways all across our wonderful nation. We will get our people off of welfare and back to work rebuilding our country with American hands and American labor. We will follow two simple rules -- buy American and hire American.
> 
> We will seek friendship and goodwill with the nations of the world.
> 
> But we do so with the understanding that it is the right of all nations to put their own interests first. We do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone but rather to let it shine as an example. We will shine for everyone to follow.
> 
> We will reinforce old alliances and form new ones. And unite the civilized world against radical Islamic terrorism, which we will eradicate completely from the face of the earth
> 
> At the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States of America and through our loyalty to our country, we will rediscover our loyalty to each other. When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.
> 
> The Bible tells us how good and pleasant it is when God's people live together in unity. We must speak our minds openly, debate our disagreement honestly but always pursue solidarity. When America is united, America is totally unstoppable.
> 
> There should be no fear. We are protected, and we will always be protected. We will be protected by the great men and women of our military and law enforcement. And most importantly, we will be protected by God.
> 
> Finally, we must think big and dream even bigger. In America, we understand that a nation is only living as long as it is striving. We will no longer accept politicians who are all talk and no action, constantly complaining but never doing anything about it.
> 
> The time for empty talk is over. Now arrives the hour of action.
> 
> Do not allow anyone to tell you that it cannot be done. No challenge can match the heart and fight and spirit of America. We will not fail. Our country will thrive and prosper again. We stand at the birth of a new millennium, ready to unlock the mysteries of space, to free the earth from the miseries of disease and to harness the energies, industries and technologies of tomorrow. A new national pride will stir ourselves, lift our sights and heal our divisions. It’s time to remember that old wisdom our soldiers will never forget -- that whether we are black or brown or white, we all bleed the same red blood of patriots.
> 
> We all enjoy the same glorious freedoms, and we all salute the same great American flag.
> 
> And whether a child is born in the urban sprawl of Detroit or the windswept plains of Nebraska, they look up at the same night sky, they fill their heart with the same dreams and they are infused with the breath of life by the same Almighty Creator.
> 
> So to all Americans in every city near and far, small and large, from mountain to mountain, from ocean to ocean, hear these words -- you will never be ignored again.
> 
> Your voice, your hopes and your dreams will define our American destiny. Together, And your courage and goodness and love will forever guide us along the way. We will make America strong again. We will make America wealthy again. We will make America proud again. We will make America safe again. And yes, together, thank you. we will make America great again. God bless you. And God bless America. Thank You.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.iagreetosee.com/portfolio/donald-trumps-inauguration-day-speech-full-text-video/




Yes we all are waiting to see, not the decisions he is taking, but the consequences and U-turns he will face in future. The world today is designs and setups by US as interference king of the world. The second layer of decisions/defense will not let Trumph into the jungle alone that is full of traps now "still trump is not aware of", not even for US military establishment as well. The people he is choosing for his administration can't save him either for the mess they are already in. US public sentiment and election manipulations apart.

Meet the 'Mad Dog' Donald Trump wants to lead the Pentagon, possible US secretary of defense, retired Marine Gen. James Mattis who have given controversial remarks in 2005 "It's Fun to shoot some people....", in a panel discussion.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/03/politics/donald-trump-james-mattis/

Still you cant fight with the army have problems in itself nowadays Gangs in US Army.






What ever Trumph have said till this point was before the first briefing of CIA now let see how the things will unfold for him with new realities.



Starlord said:


> If he do what he say he will ... that would be good for his country and other countries . Mind your OWN business , Stop Funding Terror Groups , Rebels , Stop Toppling Govt's , Stop supporting Dick-tators , and bring your Troops back home ..




What ever Trumph have said till this point was before the first briefing of CIA now let see how the things will unfold for him with new realities.


----------



## war&peace

By SUSAN CHIRA and YAMICHE ALCINDORJAN. 21, 2017

Continue reading the main story Share This Page
Trump Inauguration 2017 By BRENT McDONALD and BEN C. SOLOMON 1:52
Three Generations of Women, Marching on Washington
Video
*Three Generations of Women, Marching on Washington*
For Amber Coleman-Mortley, the Women’s March on Washington was a family affair.

By BRENT McDONALD and BEN C. SOLOMON on Publish Date January 21, 2017. Photo by Ben C. Solomon/The New York Times. Watch in Times Video »
WASHINGTON — The day after what many had assumed would be the inauguration of the first female president, hundreds of thousands of women flooded the streets of Washington, and many more marched in cities across the country, in defiant, jubilant rallies against the man who defeated her.

Protesters jammed the streets near the Capitol for the main demonstration, packed so tightly at times that they could barely move. In Chicago, the size of a rally so quickly outgrew early estimates that the official march that was scheduled to follow was canceled for safety, though many paraded through downtown, anyway.

In Manhattan, Fifth Avenue became a tide of signs and symbolic pink hats, while in downtown Los Angeles, shouts of “love trumps hate” echoed along a one-mile route leading to City Hall, with many demonstrators spilling over into adjacent streets in a huge, festival-like atmosphere.

The marches were the kickoff for what their leaders hope will be a sustained campaign of protest in a polarized nation, riven by an election that raised unsettling questions about American values, out-of-touch elites and barriers to women’s ambitions.


Donald Trump and Women By NEETI UPADHYE 2:16
Women March Around the U.S.
Video
*Women March Around the U.S.*
Hundreds of thousands of women came out to march in Washington, D.C. There were also hundreds of solidarity marches held around the nation and the world.

By NEETI UPADHYE on Publish Date January 21, 2017. Photo by Jim Wilson/The New York Times. Watch in Times Video »
On successive days, two parallel and separate Americas were on display in virtually the same location. First there was President Trump’s inauguration, his message of an ailing society he would restore to greatness aimed at the triumphant supporters who thronged Washington on Friday.


Then on Saturday, in what amounted to a counterinauguration, the speakers, performers and marchers proclaimed allegiance to a profoundly different vision of the nation. They voiced determination to protect an array of rights that they believe Mr. Trump threatens, and that they thought only recently were secure.

“Thank you for understanding that sometimes we must put our bodies where our beliefs are,” Gloria Steinem, the feminist icon and an honorary chairwoman of the march, told those gathered in Washington. “Pressing ‘send’ is not enough.”

To mobilize a progressive movement reeling from Hillary Clinton’s defeat, organizers broadened the platform beyond longstanding women’s issues such as abortion, equal pay and sexual assault to include immigrant rights, police brutality, mass incarceration, voter suppression and environmental protection.

Photo




Protesters at the women’s march in Paris on Saturday. Credit Jacky Naegelen/Reuters
But the march’s origins were in the outrage and despair of many women after an election that placed gender in the spotlight as never before.

Mrs. Clinton assertively claimed the mantle of history, offering herself as the champion of women and families, and calling out her opponent for boasting of forcing himself on women in a recording that prompted a national conversation about sexual assault. In a sly allusion to the crude remarks Mr. Trump made on the tape, many marchers, women and men alike, wore pink “pussy hats” sporting cat ears.

In Washington, demonstrators old and young pushed strollers and hoisted children onto their shoulders or guided elderly parents through the milling crowds. They waved handmade signs: “Hate Does Not Make America Great,” “I Will Not Go Back Quietly to the 1950s” and “I’m 17 — Fear Me!” They chanted, “This is what democracy looks like.’”

Emma Wendt, 13, came with a large group of family members and schoolmates from Kensington, Md., for a simple reason: “being part of history.”


* Photographs *
* Pictures From Women’s Marches Around the World *
Crowds in hundreds of cities around the world gathered Saturday in conjunction with the Women’s March on Washington.



OPEN Photographs
The marchers were confronting a president who has appointed just a handful of women to his cabinet and inner circle, and who has pledged to nominate a Supreme Court justice who opposes abortion rights and to dismantle a health care act that covers contraception. His appointees have track records of voting to cut funding for anti-domestic violence programs, opposing increases in the minimum wage and restructuring Medicaid — moves that disproportionately affect women and minorities.

Crowd estimates were not available in some locations, but a city official in Washington said that participation there likely surpassed half a million, according to The Associated Press. Added to the more than 400,000 that Mayor Bill de Blasio’s office said had marched in New York City, hundreds of thousands more in Chicago and Los Angeles, and those who showed up at many other marches nationwide, the total attendance easily surpassed one million in the United States. Marches also took place in a number of cities abroad, including Berlin, Paris, Rome, Amsterdam and Cape Town.

In Boston, where the crowd swelled to 175,000, Senator Elizabeth Warren looked out at the admiring throngs and conjured up the image of Mr. Trump’s being sworn in the day before.

“The sight is now burned into my eyes forever,” Ms. Warren said, adding, “We will use that vision to fight harder.”


* Graphic *
* Where Women’s Marches Are Happening Around the World *
The Women’s March on Washington is expected to be the largest inauguration-related demonstration in United States history.



OPEN Graphic
Yet women did not protest — or vote — as a bloc. About 53 percent of white women voted for Mr. Trump, according to exit polls, and many said his demeaning comments about women mattered less to them than their belief that he had the independence and business experience to bring about change, restore well-paying jobs and protect America’s borders.

“The women’s march clearly doesn’t represent all women,” Alex Smith, the national chairwoman of the College Republicans, said in an email. She noted the exclusion of anti-abortion women’s groups from the event. “It is precisely this type of dogmatic intransigence that voters rejected.”

The marches came a day after confrontations between anti-Trump protesters and the police led to more than 200 arrests in Washington. But Saturday’s demonstrations were peaceful, and counterprotests were few. In St. Paul, one man was arrested after marchers reported he had “sprayed irritants” into the crowd, the police said.

By midafternoon, the target of the protests had not said anything about the marchers, verbally or on Twitter. Though the Washington march ended within sight of the White House, and some demonstrators passed by his recently opened hotel, Mr. Trump did not cross paths with the crowd.

Photo




A woman wore a United States flag as a hijab during a protest in front of the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin. Credit Gregor Fischer/DPA, via Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
The march had strong echoes of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign events, with some of the celebrities, performers and slogans. Madonna, who gave a speech, said toward the end of it: “I have thought a lot about blowing up the White House. But I know that this will not change anything.” (The Secret Service declined to comment on the remark, though an investigation seemed unlikely.)

After attending the inauguration on Friday, Mrs. Clinton herself was not seen at the march. She did, however, acknowledge the moment on Twitter.

“Thanks for standing, speaking & marching for our values @womensmarch,” she wrote.

The marches captured the potential and the perils for the progressive movement — whether it can frame its message to appeal to new generations and whether it can translate protests into action locally and nationally.

Plans for Saturday’s march in Washington began as Facebook posts just after the election by a retired lawyer in Hawaii and a fashion designer in New York, both of whom are white and had no experience organizing protests. Soon, protests flooded the feeds urging them to diversify. In the end, a triumvirate of African-American, Latina and Muslim women joined the leadership team.

Photo




In a sly allusion to crude remarks made by Mr. Trump about sexual assault, many marchers wore hats sporting cat ears. Credit Hilary Swift for The New York Times
The march’s initial struggles echoed broader debates in the movement about whether the courting of new demographic groups alienated the white working-class voters who had carried Mr. Trump to victory, or whether white women had betrayed gender solidarity by voting for him. Yet on Saturday, these tensions did not deter a multiracial, multigenerational turnout. Mothers marched with daughters and granddaughters; whole families, including husbands and sons, marched arm in arm.

Mikhael Tara Garver, 37, of Brooklyn, who marched with her mother, recalled how her family had reacted after the election: “We were all calling my great-aunts because we all knew how important Hillary was to them and how important surviving to see that moment was for them.”

Another family came from Baltimore. “We have to get away from fear,” said Lureen Grace Wiggins, 49. Her daughter, Eden, 17, was exhilarated by the size of the crowd: “When you’re out here and people see you, they know you care.”

The march was rich in historical allusions — most deliberately, the 1963 march led by the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. But it echoed many other marches, including those in the 1970s that brought hundreds of thousands of women to the streets championing an Equal Rights Amendment that was ultimately defeated, and those from the late 1990s and on for abortion rights, culminating in a 2004 March for Women’s Lives that organizers said drew more than one million to the capital.

Saturday’s march happened to come just six days before quite a different one: the annual March for Life by opponents of abortion.

But perhaps the most apt analogy, said Ellen Fitzpatrick, the author of “The Highest Glass Ceiling,” was to the 1913 suffragists’ march on Washington, timed to coincide with the inauguration of President Woodrow Wilson. Led by the renowned suffragist Alice Paul, it featured a lawyer, Inez Milholland, riding a white horse down Pennsylvania Avenue, with 24 floats, nine marching bands and luminaries like Helen Keller. The women were hooted and jeered at and roughed up by the police, prompting congressional hearings and generating public sympathy. They won the vote seven years later.

Faye Wattleton, the former president of Planned Parenthood, said that women have always had to regroup, even after they thought battles were won. “This is not new,” she said. “We have to go back to the battlefield and re-fight the wars against women.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/21/...ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

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## war&peace

Women are not happy with Trump @Doordie @SherDil

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dalit

Where are all the Indian Trump supporters LOL Nowhere to be found.


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## INDIAPOSITIVE

*Madonna thought about "blowing up the White House" after Donald Trump's Presidential victory*
*The singer spoke out against the President*


Madonna has spoken out against President Donald Trump saying she thought about blowing up the White House.

The singer was amongst thousands of women who joined together to protest the 45th President of the United States.

Speaking at the Women's March in Washington DC, she said: "Good didn’t win this election, but good will win in the end.

"So what today means is that we are far from the end. Today marks the beginning of our story.

"The revolution starts here. The fight for the right to be free, to be who we are, to be equal.






Madonna performed at the Women's March

"Let’s march together through this darkness and with each step know that we are not afraid, that we are not alone, that we will not back down."

The star continued: "And to our detractors that insist that this march will never add up to anything, f*** you!

"Yes, I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House."





She was very vocal in how she feels about Trump
Madonna went on to perform a song, called Express Yourself, which included the lyrics: "Donald Trump, suck a d**k."

She joined women around the globe who were marching against Trump today.

In London, thousands of people descended on Grosvenor Square to march up to Trafalgar Square and stand against Trump.

Demonstrations are also taking place in Belfast, Cardiff, Lancaster, Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Shipley and Edinburgh.





She clearly isn't a fan of the President
And in Washington DC, tens of thousands more are expected to turn out to stand up for gender equality, healthcare for women and other issues thought to be threatened under Trump's presidency.

Among the famous faces joining the protests are singer Cher, Harry Potter star Emma Watson and The Avengers actress Scarlett Johansson .



http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/madonna-thought-blowing-up-white-9669647

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## UKBengali

These idiots do not realise that in a democracy, people like Donald Trump have every right to become leaders and be given a chance to show what they are made of.

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## Hassan Guy

LOL, 

tell her old *** to retire, her music is shit.


----------



## The Accountant

Its surprising ... i always see medona as part of cult system .. which she has demonstrated in her songs ... such a mass protest and backing from such powerful persons ... CIA is openly critisizing trump specially the hacking episode and links with Russia ... something is definitly cooking up ... is there any chance that usa being steered towards anarchy ... an unpredictable trump who has no control over his tongue whereas so much opposition in a crucial time where american economy has still not recovered ...

although direct effects on Pakistan are minimal but there is a chance of global chaos if a chaos appeared in usa ...


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## gambit

The Democrats used and hoped celebrities would make a difference. Did not. And Trump won.

Therefore, this thread about what Madonna said is pointless. She was pointless before Trump won and she is pointless now. Let this thread die.

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## Spring Onion

and that is not hate speech by her?


gambit said:


> The Democrats used and hoped celebrities would make a difference. Did not. And Trump won.
> 
> Therefore, this thread about what Madonna said is pointless. She was pointless before Trump won and she is pointless now. Let this thread die.


 It seems people like her want a kind of democracy which suits their likes and dislikes. he is democratically elected president hence running a campaign against his election is a disrespect to the American public mandate.



Hassan Guy said:


> LOL,
> 
> tell her old *** to retire, her music is shit.


it seems her career now survives on FB where she posts childish stuff about herself daily.


----------



## Zibago

More than 1 million marched against Trump in US -- and that's without counting DC
By Z. Byron Wolf, Christina Walker and Travis Caldwell, CNN

Updated 9:52 PM ET, Sat January 21, 2017





(CNN)More than a million Americans took to the streets of the United States to protest Donald Trump the day after his inauguration. And that doesn't include the many thousands of people who took part in the main event -- The Women's March on Washington -- for which there was no official crowd estimate.

CNN did not make its own crowd estimates, but compiled official estimates from law enforcement agencies for many of the "sister marches" around the country that drew large crowds. There were other marches in cities around the world.
Marchers planned events in many cities outside the nation's capitol. CNN looked at media reports citing law enforcement figures in many of those cities. Massive gatherings in places like New York and Denver were not included because authorities there did not offer an official estimate.




Crowd sizes became an issue in Washington Saturday when Trump visited the CIA and during remarks to employees there, accused an unnamed news organization of misrepresenting the attendance for his own inauguration.
"We had a massive field of people," he told the US intelligence agency. "You saw that. Packed. I get up this morning, I turn on one of the networks, and they show an empty field. I'm like, wait a minute. I made a speech. I looked out, the field was, it looked like a million, million and a half people. They showed a field where there were practically nobody standing there. And they said, 'Donald Trump did not draw well,' " the President said.
"It looked honestly like a million and a half people, whatever it was, it was, but it went all the way back to the Washington Monument and I turn on, by mistake, I get this network, and it showed an empty field. Said we drew 250,000 people. Now, that's not bad. But it's a lie," he said.
It wasn't clear which outlet Trump was referring to. CNN has not reported a specific size to the crowd since there has been no official estimate.
Later, White House press secretary Sean Spicer went on a tear against the political press for reporting on crowd size. The National Park Service, which oversees the National Mall, has been instructed by Congress not to offer crowd size estimates.
"This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period," Spicer said, although evidence suggests otherwise.

Photos of Trump's inauguration compared to Barack Obama's in 2009 and also to the Women's March suggest the President drew a smaller crowd, although there could be other reasons, including a heightened security perimeter on Friday for the inauguration that was not in place on Saturday for the Women's March and protesters on Friday, who obstructed entrance points to the inauguration and parade route.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/21/polit...ton/index.html0930AMStoryLink&linkId=33648295
Lol now America has their own Pervaiz Rawshit 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...guration-attendance-sean-spicer-a7539776.html




American politics got Pakistanified 
@django @Hell hound @The Sandman @The Eagle @PaklovesTurkiye @haviZsultan @User @Mugwop @RealNapster 
Baboons Trumpians bhai bhai

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## Hell hound

Zibago said:


> More than 1 million marched against Trump in US -- and that's without counting DC
> By Z. Byron Wolf, Christina Walker and Travis Caldwell, CNN
> 
> Updated 9:52 PM ET, Sat January 21, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (CNN)More than a million Americans took to the streets of the United States to protest Donald Trump the day after his inauguration. And that doesn't include the many thousands of people who took part in the main event -- The Women's March on Washington -- for which there was no official crowd estimate.
> 
> CNN did not make its own crowd estimates, but compiled official estimates from law enforcement agencies for many of the "sister marches" around the country that drew large crowds. There were other marches in cities around the world.
> Marchers planned events in many cities outside the nation's capitol. CNN looked at media reports citing law enforcement figures in many of those cities. Massive gatherings in places like New York and Denver were not included because authorities there did not offer an official estimate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crowd sizes became an issue in Washington Saturday when Trump visited the CIA and during remarks to employees there, accused an unnamed news organization of misrepresenting the attendance for his own inauguration.
> "We had a massive field of people," he told the US intelligence agency. "You saw that. Packed. I get up this morning, I turn on one of the networks, and they show an empty field. I'm like, wait a minute. I made a speech. I looked out, the field was, it looked like a million, million and a half people. They showed a field where there were practically nobody standing there. And they said, 'Donald Trump did not draw well,' " the President said.
> "It looked honestly like a million and a half people, whatever it was, it was, but it went all the way back to the Washington Monument and I turn on, by mistake, I get this network, and it showed an empty field. Said we drew 250,000 people. Now, that's not bad. But it's a lie," he said.
> It wasn't clear which outlet Trump was referring to. CNN has not reported a specific size to the crowd since there has been no official estimate.
> Later, White House press secretary Sean Spicer went on a tear against the political press for reporting on crowd size. The National Park Service, which oversees the National Mall, has been instructed by Congress not to offer crowd size estimates.
> "This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period," Spicer said, although evidence suggests otherwise.
> 
> Photos of Trump's inauguration compared to Barack Obama's in 2009 and also to the Women's March suggest the President drew a smaller crowd, although there could be other reasons, including a heightened security perimeter on Friday for the inauguration that was not in place on Saturday for the Women's March and protesters on Friday, who obstructed entrance points to the inauguration and parade route.
> http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/21/polit...ton/index.html0930AMStoryLink&linkId=33648295
> Lol now America has their own Pervaiz Rawshit
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...guration-attendance-sean-spicer-a7539776.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American politics got Pakistanified
> @django @Hell hound @The Sandman @The Eagle @PaklovesTurkiye @haviZsultan @User @Mugwop @RealNapster
> Baboons Trumpians bhai bhai


Next step dharna in Washington

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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 370415
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 370416

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## Zibago

The American spring @2800 @Malik Alashter @EgyptianAmerican 



Hell hound said:


> Next step dharna in Washington


A dharna without DJ Butt  ?

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## Zibago

They are moderate rebels who want to overthrow a facist dictator


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## T-123456

They should at least give him the first 100 days.


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## Hell hound

Zibago said:


> The American spring @2800 @Malik Alashter @EgyptianAmerican
> 
> 
> A dharna without DJ Butt  ?


whats the USA equivalent of D chok  @Moonlight


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## H!TchHiker

Hail Trump..America First


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## Hell hound

H!TchHiker said:


> Hail Trump..America First


make america great again

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## Zibago

Trump tweets criticism over US protests
January 22, 2017 By: Samaa Web Desk Published in Global Be the first to comment!

Demonstrators gather on The Ellipse during the Women’s March on Washington January 21, 2017 in Washington, DC. -AFP

WASHINGTON: President Donald Trump took to Twitter early Sunday to needle the estimated two million people who marched in women-led mass protests against him a day earlier, including celebrities who took part.

“Watched protests yesterday but was under the impression that we just had an election! Why didn’t these people vote? Celebs hurt cause badly,” Trump tweeted.

A second, more formally worded, missive followed an hour later in which the Republican leader stressed that he respected the right to demonstrate.

“Peaceful protests are a hallmark of our democracy. Even if I don’t always agree, I recognize the rights of people to express their views,” he tweeted.

There was no official crowd count for the largest march, in Washington, but organizers told AFP they were confident it drew one million people, protesting any rollback of the rights of women, immigrants and minorities under Trump’s presidency.

At least a million people marched in other US cities, according to a tally of official counts for 15 major demonstrations compiled by CNN.

That figure did not include the many smaller sister marches held across the country and worldwide, which organizers numbered at over 600.

The scale of the mass protests highlights the depth of resistance to the former reality TV star, two days after he was sworn in as president with an approval rating of just 37 percent.

Pop diva Madonna made an unannounced appearance Saturday in Washington, joining hundreds of thousands of protesters who rallied for women’s rights in defiance of Trump.

Other celebrities at the massive demonstration included actresses Scarlett Johansson, Ashley Judd and America Ferrera, filmmaker Michael Moore and the feminist icon Gloria Steinem. -AFP
https://www.samaa.tv/international/2017/01/trump-tweets-criticism-over-us-protests/

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## T-72

Alex Jones bumps into an Indian Christian zealot.


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## Aramagedon

Zibago said:


> More than 1 million marched against Trump in US -- and that's without counting DC
> By Z. Byron Wolf, Christina Walker and Travis Caldwell, CNN
> 
> Updated 9:52 PM ET, Sat January 21, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (CNN)More than a million Americans took to the streets of the United States to protest Donald Trump the day after his inauguration. And that doesn't include the many thousands of people who took part in the main event -- The Women's March on Washington -- for which there was no official crowd estimate.
> 
> CNN did not make its own crowd estimates, but compiled official estimates from law enforcement agencies for many of the "sister marches" around the country that drew large crowds. There were other marches in cities around the world.
> Marchers planned events in many cities outside the nation's capitol. CNN looked at media reports citing law enforcement figures in many of those cities. Massive gatherings in places like New York and Denver were not included because authorities there did not offer an official estimate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crowd sizes became an issue in Washington Saturday when Trump visited the CIA and during remarks to employees there, accused an unnamed news organization of misrepresenting the attendance for his own inauguration.
> "We had a massive field of people," he told the US intelligence agency. "You saw that. Packed. I get up this morning, I turn on one of the networks, and they show an empty field. I'm like, wait a minute. I made a speech. I looked out, the field was, it looked like a million, million and a half people. They showed a field where there were practically nobody standing there. And they said, 'Donald Trump did not draw well,' " the President said.
> "It looked honestly like a million and a half people, whatever it was, it was, but it went all the way back to the Washington Monument and I turn on, by mistake, I get this network, and it showed an empty field. Said we drew 250,000 people. Now, that's not bad. But it's a lie," he said.
> It wasn't clear which outlet Trump was referring to. CNN has not reported a specific size to the crowd since there has been no official estimate.
> Later, White House press secretary Sean Spicer went on a tear against the political press for reporting on crowd size. The National Park Service, which oversees the National Mall, has been instructed by Congress not to offer crowd size estimates.
> "This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period," Spicer said, although evidence suggests otherwise.
> 
> Photos of Trump's inauguration compared to Barack Obama's in 2009 and also to the Women's March suggest the President drew a smaller crowd, although there could be other reasons, including a heightened security perimeter on Friday for the inauguration that was not in place on Saturday for the Women's March and protesters on Friday, who obstructed entrance points to the inauguration and parade route.
> http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/21/polit...ton/index.html0930AMStoryLink&linkId=33648295
> Lol now America has their own Pervaiz Rawshit
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...guration-attendance-sean-spicer-a7539776.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American politics got Pakistanified
> @django @Hell hound @The Sandman @The Eagle @PaklovesTurkiye @haviZsultan @User @Mugwop @RealNapster
> Baboons Trumpians bhai bhai


Donald Trump is the most unpopular American president ever. His popularity is less than 40%.

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## Zibago

2800 said:


> Donald Trump is the most unpopular American president ever. His popularity is less than 40%.


We must support legitimate struggle of moderate rebels against a facist dictator world must not stay silent on Trump,s suppression of opposition 

Lol

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## Aramagedon

Zibago said:


> We must support legitimate struggle of moderate rebels against a facist dictator world must not stay silent on Trump,s suppression of opposition
> 
> Lol


  American democracy style.

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## Zibago

2800 said:


> American democracy style.


Karma is a mo,fukin bitch

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## Hindustani78

*President Donald Trump greets Bishop Harry Jackson of the Hope Christian Church in Maryland at an interfaith prayer service at the Washington National Cathedral. At right is Narayanachar L Dialakote of the Sri Siva Vishnu Temple in Maryland. (NYT Photo)*


----------



## RabzonKhan

It is very embarrassing to watch White House press secretary lie like hell in his first news conference from the White House. 



*



*
*Sean Spicer told at least 5 untruths in 5 minutes*
By KYLE CHENEY and DAN DIAMOND


01/21/17 10:06 PM EST


Updated 01/22/17 12:51 PM EST

In his first post-inauguration news conference Saturday, White House press secretary Sean Spicer immediately accused reporters of making inaccurate claims.

He then proceeded to make no fewer than four inaccurate claims in five minutes and 30 seconds of speaking, took no questions, and left.

Here they are.

*1. "This was the first time in our nation's history that floor coverings have been used to protect the grass on the Mall. That had the effect of highlighting any areas where people were not standing, while in years past the grass eliminated this visual."*

Actually, 2013 was the first time a special floor covering was installed to protect the grass on the National Mall. The Washington Post reported shortly before the second Obama inauguration that officials placed “several acres of a special plastic flooring.”

Getty Images includes in its archives an image of workers laying the flooring just ahead of Obama’s swearing-in that year. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/823271984754626560

And other reporters dredged up their own photos from 2013 that revealed the protective covering.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/822941369266216960
*
2. "All of this space [from Trump’s platform to the Washington Monument] was full when the president took the Oath of Office."*

This photograph, taken during Trump’s inaugural address and published by CNN, shows considerable crowd gaps between the Capitol and the Washington Monument on the National Mall. To believe the area was full when Trump took the oath, one would have to believe the watchers left en masse in the minutes between the oath and the speech.









*3. "We know that 420,000 people used the D.C. Metro public transit yesterday, which actually compares to 317,000 that used it for President Obama's last inaugural."*

On Friday, the D.C. Metro published ridership statistics for the past four inauguration days. The figures go up until 11 a.m., presumably on the assumption that riders using the system after that are unlikely to be attending the noon-time ceremony.

Spicer is correct that, per Metro, there were 317,000 trips taken before 11 a.m. in 2013, “President Obama’s last inaugural.” But by that metric, the 2017 figure would be 193,000 — less than half of the 420,000 Spicer claimed.

In terms of full-day ridership, Metro told The Washington Post that riders took 570,557 trips Friday. But by that metric, Spicer is wrong about Inauguration Day 2013, when there were 782,000 trips taken. On Inauguration Day 2009, per the Post, that figure hit 1.1 million.

*4. "This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration — period — both in person and around the globe."*

While the new administration disputes the count, the visual evidence from overhead photography is overwhelming: Far more people stood on the Mall and witnessed Obama’s inauguration in 2009 than Trump’s inauguration on Friday.

The global viewing audience is nearly impossible to calculate, but at least four previous presidents drew bigger domestic TV audiences than Trump. According to Nielsen ratings, 30.6 million viewers tuned in across 12 networks to watch Trump’s inauguration. That falls well short of the 41.8 million viewers who watched Ronald Reagan’s 1981 inauguration, the 37.7 million who watched Obama’s 2009 inauguration, the 34.1 million who watched Jimmy Carter’s 1977 inauguration and the 33 million who watched Richard Nixon’s 1973 inauguration.

Millions of viewers also tuned in for livestreams of Trump’s inauguration, and CNN says that there were 16.9 million livestreams on its site and apps across the day. But Obama’s 2009 inauguration drew then-record online audiences, with CNN reporting more than 25 million livestreams across the day — and so much demand during Obama’s speech that many viewers were shunted to online waiting rooms.

Update: Spicer's fifth falsehood was confirmed by multiple sources Saturday evening and Sunday morning.

*5. "This was also the first time that fencing and magnetometers went as far back on the Mall, preventing hundreds of thousands of people from being able to access the Mall as quickly as they had in inaugurations past."*

Spicer said enhanced security techniques had delayed inauguration attendees from taking their places as early as they had in years past. But the U.S. Secret Service told The New York Times that security measures were largely unchanged. CNN reporter Robert Acosta tweeted that the Secret Service told him they were not — contrary to what Spicer said — using magnetometers.

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## H!TchHiker

Hell hound said:


> make america great again

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## Hell hound

H!TchHiker said:


>


 seriously


----------



## F-22Raptor

RabzonKhan said:


> It is very embarrassing to watch White House press secretary lie like hell in his first news conference from the White House.
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Sean Spicer told at least 5 untruths in 5 minutes*
> By KYLE CHENEY and DAN DIAMOND
> 
> 
> 01/21/17 10:06 PM EST
> 
> 
> Updated 01/22/17 12:51 PM EST
> 
> In his first post-inauguration news conference Saturday, White House press secretary Sean Spicer immediately accused reporters of making inaccurate claims.
> 
> He then proceeded to make no fewer than four inaccurate claims in five minutes and 30 seconds of speaking, took no questions, and left.
> 
> Here they are.
> 
> *1. "This was the first time in our nation's history that floor coverings have been used to protect the grass on the Mall. That had the effect of highlighting any areas where people were not standing, while in years past the grass eliminated this visual."*
> 
> Actually, 2013 was the first time a special floor covering was installed to protect the grass on the National Mall. The Washington Post reported shortly before the second Obama inauguration that officials placed “several acres of a special plastic flooring.”
> 
> Getty Images includes in its archives an image of workers laying the flooring just ahead of Obama’s swearing-in that year.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/823271984754626560
> 
> And other reporters dredged up their own photos from 2013 that revealed the protective covering.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/822941369266216960
> *
> 2. "All of this space [from Trump’s platform to the Washington Monument] was full when the president took the Oath of Office."*
> 
> This photograph, taken during Trump’s inaugural address and published by CNN, shows considerable crowd gaps between the Capitol and the Washington Monument on the National Mall. To believe the area was full when Trump took the oath, one would have to believe the watchers left en masse in the minutes between the oath and the speech.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 370888
> 
> 
> 
> *3. "We know that 420,000 people used the D.C. Metro public transit yesterday, which actually compares to 317,000 that used it for President Obama's last inaugural."*
> 
> On Friday, the D.C. Metro published ridership statistics for the past four inauguration days. The figures go up until 11 a.m., presumably on the assumption that riders using the system after that are unlikely to be attending the noon-time ceremony.
> 
> Spicer is correct that, per Metro, there were 317,000 trips taken before 11 a.m. in 2013, “President Obama’s last inaugural.” But by that metric, the 2017 figure would be 193,000 — less than half of the 420,000 Spicer claimed.
> 
> In terms of full-day ridership, Metro told The Washington Post that riders took 570,557 trips Friday. But by that metric, Spicer is wrong about Inauguration Day 2013, when there were 782,000 trips taken. On Inauguration Day 2009, per the Post, that figure hit 1.1 million.
> 
> *4. "This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration — period — both in person and around the globe."*
> 
> While the new administration disputes the count, the visual evidence from overhead photography is overwhelming: Far more people stood on the Mall and witnessed Obama’s inauguration in 2009 than Trump’s inauguration on Friday.
> 
> The global viewing audience is nearly impossible to calculate, but at least four previous presidents drew bigger domestic TV audiences than Trump. According to Nielsen ratings, 30.6 million viewers tuned in across 12 networks to watch Trump’s inauguration. That falls well short of the 41.8 million viewers who watched Ronald Reagan’s 1981 inauguration, the 37.7 million who watched Obama’s 2009 inauguration, the 34.1 million who watched Jimmy Carter’s 1977 inauguration and the 33 million who watched Richard Nixon’s 1973 inauguration.
> 
> Millions of viewers also tuned in for livestreams of Trump’s inauguration, and CNN says that there were 16.9 million livestreams on its site and apps across the day. But Obama’s 2009 inauguration drew then-record online audiences, with CNN reporting more than 25 million livestreams across the day — and so much demand during Obama’s speech that many viewers were shunted to online waiting rooms.
> 
> Update: Spicer's fifth falsehood was confirmed by multiple sources Saturday evening and Sunday morning.
> 
> *5. "This was also the first time that fencing and magnetometers went as far back on the Mall, preventing hundreds of thousands of people from being able to access the Mall as quickly as they had in inaugurations past."*
> 
> Spicer said enhanced security techniques had delayed inauguration attendees from taking their places as early as they had in years past. But the U.S. Secret Service told The New York Times that security measures were largely unchanged. CNN reporter Robert Acosta tweeted that the Secret Service told him they were not — contrary to what Spicer said — using magnetometers.




I'm trying my best to support our new President, but this is flat out embarrassing. The media has every right to annihilate the administration if they continue to conduct themselves in such a manner.

If Trump doesn't drop his petty act and focus on real issues, his party will lose control of Congress next year and he won't make it to a 2nd term.

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## gambit

F-22Raptor said:


> I'm trying my best to support our new President, but this is flat out embarrassing. The media has every right to annihilate the administration if they continue to conduct themselves in such a manner.
> 
> If Trump doesn't drop his petty act and focus on real issues, his party will lose control of Congress next year and he won't make it to a 2nd term.


Both Trump and Clinton are embarrassments.

But here is what I think will happen now that Dump is Prez...

Clump is not a 'details' kind of man, whereas Obama had to fight off the urge to be the typical micro-manager. Both leaders were observed by their people of their styles of leadership and management bent. Any corporation is a dictatorship and this environment is where Chump is most comfortable. If Bump is faced with an opposition Congress, then America will be in deep shit, but that is not the case. The Democrats lost badly at both state and federal level and the electoral stats proved it.

What this means -- in my opinion -- is that the political operating environment that could have challenged Frump's management style now works in the Republicans' favor. The Republicans will let Dump be their 'point man' on major issues. Let him, via his press secretary and social media tools, fight, and therefore distract, the press on those major issues. They will work out the details of the visions presented and of the promises made during the campaign. This is the Republicans' show and even Sump knows it.

It will be the Republicans who can create disasters for Trump, not the other way around, now that they are the legislative majority over the country. If they do not remain cohesive and learned the mistakes made by the Democrats, especially regarding the arrogance consistently made by Democrat leaders, it is the Republicans who will deny Trump the second term.

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## Penguin

RabzonKhan said:


>


January 2009





January 2017





The Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority, which operates the subway system, said in a tweet that 193,000 had taken the Metro as of 11 a.m., far fewer than the 513,000 who’d ridden by the same hour in 2009. The ridership ahead of President George W. Bush’s second inauguration in 2005 was 197,000.

'Nuff said

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## Nilgiri

Penguin said:


> January 2009
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> January 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority, which operates the subway system, said in a tweet that 193,000 had taken the Metro as of 11 a.m., far fewer than the 513,000 who’d ridden by the same hour in 2009. The ridership ahead of President George W. Bush’s second inauguration in 2005 was 197,000.
> 
> 'Nuff said



Trump supporters generally have jobs to go to on friday (unlike the govt welfare dependent obama/democrat freeloaders who have nothing better to do)....and they really can't take a day off because of Obamacare premiums in many cases.

They generally aren't leeches on govt welfare and neither were there massively numbered genuine threats made against their lives and safety by an anti-president crowd for obama (which would have been acted out on those that still did show had it not been for the police, national guard and bikers for trump...as we saw with the rioting terrorists in DC earlier).

Trump should be judged on policy and accomplishments he makes as president, not how many attended his inauguration.

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## LA se Karachi

Nilgiri said:


> Trump supporters generally have jobs to go to on friday (unlike the govt welfare dependent obama/democrat freeloaders who have nothing better to do)....





Nilgiri said:


> They generally aren't leeches on govt welfare and neither were there massively numbered genuine threats made against their lives and safety by an anti-president crowd for obama





Desert Fox said:


> Wow, look at all of those illegals and welfare recipients congregate in one place. Trump must be very jealous.




Sigh... This is completely false. Most of the areas that are most heavily tied to welfare are strongly Republican:







You will also notice that he did very well in these counties, often garnering 70-85% of the vote:





_ http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president
_

Also, poor people in liberal urban areas (often ethnic minorities) have significantly lower rates of welfare enrollment than those in conservative rural areas:

_"In spite of the prevailing stereotypes and assumptions about who uses SNAP Food Stamp benefits the most in the United States, the highest usage is not in Compton, Queens, nor the South Side of Chicago. Instead, a city that is 99.22% white and 95% Republican comes in the lead. Owsley County, Kentucky is a community of about 5,000, residents earning the lowest median household income in the country outside of Puerto Rico, according to the U.S. Census."

http://politicalblindspot.com/the-food-stamp-capital-of-the-u-s-is-white-and-republican/_

^ Trump received roughly 84%(!) of the vote in that county, by the way. Almost all of the rural, white counties with the highest amount of people on welfare voted for Trump by a wide margin.

It's not new, by the way:

_"Among the 254 counties where food stamp recipients doubled between 2007 and 2011, Republican Mitt Romney won 213 of them in last year’s presidential election, according to U.S. Department of Agriculture data compiled by Bloomberg. Kentucky’s Owsley County, which backed Romney with 81 percent of its vote, has the largest proportion of food stamp recipients among those that he carried."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ut-backed-by-republicans-with-voters-on-rolls_

Educated white voters who are usually gainfully employed, and not on welfare, tend to split their votes between both parties (they actually favor Democrats if you exclude white Southerners who are very Republican at all levels):

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## Nilgiri

LA se Karachi said:


> Sigh... This is completely false. Most of the areas that are most heavily tied to welfare are strongly Republican:
> 
> View attachment 370935
> 
> 
> 
> You will also notice that he did very well in these counties, often garnering 70-85% of the vote:
> 
> View attachment 370939
> 
> _ http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president
> _
> 
> Also, poor people in liberal urban areas (often ethnic minorities) have significantly lower rates of welfare enrollment than those in conservative rural areas:
> 
> _"In spite of the prevailing stereotypes and assumptions about who uses SNAP Food Stamp benefits the most in the United States, the highest usage is not in Compton, Queens, nor the South Side of Chicago. Instead, a city that is 99.22% white and 95% Republican comes in the lead. Owsley County, Kentucky is a community of about 5,000, residents earning the lowest median household income in the country outside of Puerto Rico, according to the U.S. Census."
> 
> http://politicalblindspot.com/the-food-stamp-capital-of-the-u-s-is-white-and-republican/_
> 
> ^ Trump received roughly 84%(!) of the vote in that county, by the way. Almost all of the rural, white counties with the highest amount of people on welfare voted for Trump by a wide margin.
> 
> It's not new, by the way:
> 
> _"Among the 254 counties where food stamp recipients doubled between 2007 and 2011, Republican Mitt Romney won 213 of them in last year’s presidential election, according to U.S. Department of Agriculture data compiled by Bloomberg. Kentucky’s Owsley County, which backed Romney with 81 percent of its vote, has the largest proportion of food stamp recipients among those that he carried."
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ut-backed-by-republicans-with-voters-on-rolls_
> 
> Educated white voters who are usually gainfully employed, and not on welfare, tend to split their votes between both parties (they actually favor Democrats if you exclude white Southerners who are very Republican at all levels):
> 
> 
> View attachment 370937



I'm talking about people around the DC metro area and probably eastern coastal area within short travelling distance. Sorry for not adding that.

The welfare I am talking about also isn't the food stamp bare basics variety but a few levels above that...many times the very concept that govt should be actively involved in "wealth distribution" by taxing + neverending cacophony of "spending" programs....and the blind belief that it is the most efficient agent of this. Thus there is a "sweet spot" that the democrats target and keep captive ever since the LBJ days with all kinds of govt welfare programs and there has been a vicious undercurrent that has permeated the rank and file of the democrat party (and many western parties in general) every since Socialism started to massively fail in its posterboy across the Iron Curtain.

But at least many minority community leaders are now increasingly aware of the big democrat hoax being perpetrated on their people:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5283286180001/?#sp=show-clips

Not to mention this (DC area) is the hub of govt to begin with, of course govt employees and all the people from companies attached to the govt teat (and all levels of real spending welfare this encompasses) would have been doey eyed for Obama compared to Trump....people that would form the bulk of any crowd in the DC area given their proximity.

Those are the people that definitely would have turned out for Obama but not for relatively anti-govt drain the swamp Trump....if they could even get past Obama and Trump's skin colour in the first place.

There is no precise sampling or surveying of the breakdown of people that attend inaugurations, especially ones that put time and money for travelling from outside the immediate massive pro-democrat hub that is the washington-baltimore-northern VA area....(and its branches extending north easterly through urban PA and NY)...so the media attention on how many attend these in total and making all kinds of assertions on that (as representative of the entire US) is just like their earlier "polling" regarding Trump.

To me the number of people that turned out for Obama is more an indication of the massive mandate he received and then squandered (if you look at his uncompromising and aloof approach to the republicans), because ultimately he is a good political actor, had his skin tone and background going for him yet demonstrably (as we see now) did not have the fortitude or capability of being the genuine instrument of change that he projected himself to be. He paid all the proper obeisances to all the other corridors of power (media and so on) and never detracted from the clear path laid out to him by the establishment puppet masters. A consummate politician, I will give that to him.

A lot of people (both with vested interests in welfare and govt and those that are regular folk) got swept up in that nonsense, remain and will remain on that cloud, thats human nature in many cases....but enough in the states that mattered this election were able to see through all of that and saw an even worse version of it about to be continued by Hillary. Multitudes of them gave Obama a chance and were genuinely hopeful about him...to them yesterday's McCain and Romney were like Hillary today....and Obama threw it all away (well his puppet masters did...because of their overconfidence in show-boating rather than genuine economic development of estranged, overburdened America).

So people have invested their confidence for the first time in a really really long time into someone that is not from the political class. A potential mix of Ike, Teddy and Andrew Jackson (the way I see it)....with his own unique approach. Love him or hate him, the reason for him is 8 years of Obama and the democrats/establishment imposing hillary as a crowning legacy of that. That is something the inauguration pictures simply cannot show. But when have the media been anything of depth rather than displaying a skewed veneer?


----------



## Zibago

Donald Trump Will Not Release Tax Returns, White House Adviser Says
by ALEXANDRA JAFFE
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Kellyanne Conway, counselor to President Donald Trump, said Sunday that the president would not be releasing his tax returns, reversing months of repeated campaign-trail promises to do so after an audit is completed.

Conway's comments came in response to a Whitehouse.gov petition with more than 200,000 signatures calling on Trump to release his tax returns. Any petition on the site that receives 100,000 signatures in 30 days receives a response from the White House; this petition reached twice that in two days.

"The White House response is that he's not going to release his tax returns," Conway said in an interview on ABC's "This Week."

Related: Donald Trump's Taxes: What We Know and What We Don't

Trump broke with decades of precedent during the campaign by becoming the first major party nominee since the 1970s to refuse to release his tax returns. He repeatedly cited an ongoing IRS audit in refusing to do so but said he would eventually release them when the audit was completed.

But Trump and his allies have argued that his tax returns are irrelevant, a statement Conway made again on Sunday.

"We litigated this all through the election. People didn't care," she said.

"They voted for him, and let me make this very clear: Most Americans are very focused on what their tax returns will look like while President Trump is in office, not what his look like. And you know full well that President Trump and his family are complying with all the ethical rules, everything they need to do to step away from his businesses and be a full-time president."

Both of Conway's statements are false — multiple polls showed a majority of Americans believe Trump should release his tax returns, including an ABC News/Washington Post survey out last week that found three-fourths of Americans believe he should release them.

And a ProPublica investigation out Friday revealed that despite Trump's pledge to transfer control of his businesses to his children as part of an ethics agreement as president, he hasn't filed any of the necessary documents to do so in Florida, Delaware and New York.

Play Facebook Twitter Google PlusEmbed
Analysis: Key Takeaways From Pres.-elect Trump's Press Conference 0:55
Experts agree that Trump's ethics plan falls short of eliminating conflicts of interest for multiple reasons, including the fact that his business will be operated by his sons and his assets will not be placed in a blind trust under independent control. 
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...white-house-adviser-n710511?cid=sm_fb_nbcnews
@The Sandman

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## Hamartia Antidote

Zibago said:


> More than 1 million marched against Trump in US -- and that's without counting DC
> By Z. Byron Wolf, Christina Walker and Travis Caldwell, CNN
> 
> Updated 9:52 PM ET, Sat January 21, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (CNN)More than a million Americans took to the streets of the United States to protest Donald Trump the day after his inauguration. And that doesn't include the many thousands of people who took part in the main event -- The Women's March on Washington -- for which there was no official crowd estimate.
> 
> CNN did not make its own crowd estimates, but compiled official estimates from law enforcement agencies for many of the "sister marches" around the country that drew large crowds. There were other marches in cities around the world.
> Marchers planned events in many cities outside the nation's capitol. CNN looked at media reports citing law enforcement figures in many of those cities. Massive gatherings in places like New York and Denver were not included because authorities there did not offer an official estimate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crowd sizes became an issue in Washington Saturday when Trump visited the CIA and during remarks to employees there, accused an unnamed news organization of misrepresenting the attendance for his own inauguration.
> "We had a massive field of people," he told the US intelligence agency. "You saw that. Packed. I get up this morning, I turn on one of the networks, and they show an empty field. I'm like, wait a minute. I made a speech. I looked out, the field was, it looked like a million, million and a half people. They showed a field where there were practically nobody standing there. And they said, 'Donald Trump did not draw well,' " the President said.
> "It looked honestly like a million and a half people, whatever it was, it was, but it went all the way back to the Washington Monument and I turn on, by mistake, I get this network, and it showed an empty field. Said we drew 250,000 people. Now, that's not bad. But it's a lie," he said.
> It wasn't clear which outlet Trump was referring to. CNN has not reported a specific size to the crowd since there has been no official estimate.
> Later, White House press secretary Sean Spicer went on a tear against the political press for reporting on crowd size. The National Park Service, which oversees the National Mall, has been instructed by Congress not to offer crowd size estimates.
> "This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period," Spicer said, although evidence suggests otherwise.
> 
> Photos of Trump's inauguration compared to Barack Obama's in 2009 and also to the Women's March suggest the President drew a smaller crowd, although there could be other reasons, including a heightened security perimeter on Friday for the inauguration that was not in place on Saturday for the Women's March and protesters on Friday, who obstructed entrance points to the inauguration and parade route.
> http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/21/polit...ton/index.html0930AMStoryLink&linkId=33648295
> Lol now America has their own Pervaiz Rawshit
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...guration-attendance-sean-spicer-a7539776.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American politics got Pakistanified
> @django @Hell hound @The Sandman @The Eagle @PaklovesTurkiye @haviZsultan @User @Mugwop @RealNapster
> Baboons Trumpians bhai bhai



I wonder how many of them actually voted.


----------



## LA se Karachi

Nilgiri said:


> 'm talking about people around the DC metro area and probably eastern coastal area within short travelling distance. Sorry for not adding that.




Nothing wrong with a geographic argument for his inauguration crowd.

In any case, I was only responding to your completely false claim that his supporters aren't welfare recipients. The places in this country where the highest proportion of people receive welfare voted for Trump by a wide margin. That is a fact.



Nilgiri said:


> The welfare I am talking about also isn't the food stamp bare basics variety but a few levels above that...many times the very concept that govt should be actively involved in "wealth distribution" by taxing + neverending cacophony of "spending" programs....and the blind belief that it is the most efficient agent of this. Thus there is a "sweet spot" that the democrats target and keep captive ever since the LBJ days




Yes, because people who are getting poorer or whose incomes stagnate while they increase dramatically for the wealthy should be ignored. And those who cannot escape poverty are better off starving, not having healthcare, and being homeless, I suppose. The economy is holding people captive, not welfare.

Many people who don't enroll in welfare programs, despite being eligible, don't escape poverty either. That's the truth. Working in retail or food service for $8-13 an hour doesn't move people into the middle class, even after many years of work experience. Not to mention that many of these people can't find steady work at all and bounce from job to job, often unable to get enough hours.

Republicans have controlled the South for some time now, and these states often have lowest tax rates, fewest regulations, and least amount of welfare benefits. What has resulted? The least economically dynamic, most uneducated, poorest, and unhealthiest part of the country, often with low levels of GDP per capita. These are facts.



Nilgiri said:


> with all kinds of govt welfare programs and there has been a vicious undercurrent that has permeated the rank and file of the democrat party (and many western parties in general) every since Socialism started to massively fail in its posterboy across the Iron Curtain.




That's quite a mouthful. Don't confuse Democratic Socialism with Soviet-style Communism. The two are very, very different things. Democratic Socialism is primarily a form of capitalism with some socialism mixed in. I suppose countries like Norway, Denmark, Sweden, New Zealand, Iceland, and Austria are all doing terribly in your opinion. Not to mention that countries like Australia, Canada, the UK, Switzerland, Japan, and Germany are considerably more "socialist" than the US, but they seem to be doing just fine too.

I can go on and on about the problems and potential solutions for our country, but I'm not interested in a protracted discussion on the subject. I've had enough of them over the years. I'm not trying to get you to come over to my side. You're just as entitled to your opinion as I am. I was only responding to your false claim that people on welfare didn't vote for Trump, that's all.



Nilgiri said:


> But at least many minority community leaders are now increasingly aware of the big democrat hoax being perpetrated on their people:




Most minorities are overwhelmingly Democratic. I can post some exit polls if you'd like. Secondly, they don't vote for Democrats because of "welfare". Most of them are not on welfare. There are many issues that make them do so. And minimum wage raises, gun control, etc are not "hoaxes". Polling has consistently shown that minorities are much more liberal on almost all political issues than the country as a whole.

And, even very economically successful minorities like Asians are more Democratic than ever before thanks to the rightward, nativist lurch of the Republican party.



Nilgiri said:


> Not to mention this (DC area) is the hub of govt to begin with, of course govt employees and all the people from companies attached to the govt teat (and all levels of real spending welfare this encompasses) would have been doey eyed for Obama compared to Trump....people that would form the bulk of any crowd in the DC area given their proximity.
> 
> Those are the people that definitely would have turned out for Obama but not for relatively anti-govt drain the swamp Trump....if they could even get past Obama and Trump's skin colour in the first place.




The vast majority of the people in the DC area are not tied to the federal government. This is a myth that has been debunked many times. It's just a self-deluding talking point parroted by right-wingers. The Washington DC metro does well because of the educational attainment of its workforce, the diversity of its economy, and simply because it is a major urban area to begin with that attracts professionals and corporations.

Another thing, most of the states that are most dependent on Federal aid are ones that Trump won:






Also, I have no idea what Trump's skin color has to do with it. I can assure you that this is not the case. Minorities liked Bill Clinton quite a bit. Although, there were a chunk of people who didn't like Obama because of the color of his skin (though certainly not a majority).



Nilgiri said:


> There is no precise sampling or surveying of the breakdown of people that attend inaugurations, especially ones that put time and money for travelling from outside the immediate massive pro-democrat hub that is the washington-baltimore-northern VA area....(and its branches extending north easterly through urban PA and NY)...so the media attention on how many attend these in total and making all kinds of assertions on that (as representative of the entire US) is just like their earlier "polling" regarding Trump.




Again, your point about his inauguration crowd may or may not be a fair one---I don't know as I haven't compared his crowds to Bush or Clinton. I don't really care, personally.

However, the polling was fine when it came to understanding people's political preferences. Where it failed was when it came to predicting voter _turnout_. More of those people did not vote than expected. This is why he continues to have an abysmal favorable rating. Many Democrats and moderates in the Midwest simply stayed home and some voted third party. I warned about that phenomenon on this very thread before the election. Trump narrowly won these states and the election (though Hillary still won the popular vote 48% to 46%).



Nilgiri said:


> To me the number of people that turned out for Obama is more an indication of the massive mandate he received and




True, people turned out in large numbers because of "hope" and "change"---rightly or wrongly.



Nilgiri said:


> and then squandered




Debatable. He made many changes, though perhaps not as many as he promised. Keep in mind that only Congress can pass laws, not the President. All he has is veto power. From 2011-2017 at least one house of Congress was controlled by the Republicans.



Nilgiri said:


> (if you look at his uncompromising and aloof approach to the republicans)




Absolutely false, I'm afraid. President Obama _repeatedly_ tried to work with the Republicans and compromise. So much so that many of his original backers like me became somewhat disappointed in him. But even then, the Republicans stonewalled everything he tried and even shut the Federal Government down at one point. In fact, Mitch McConnell (the Senate leader of the Republicans) set a _record _for most filibusters in the Senate when his party was in the minority (until 2015), preventing a lot legislation from being passed.



Nilgiri said:


> because ultimately he is a good political actor, had his skin tone and background going for him yet demonstrably (as we see now) did not have the fortitude or capability of being the genuine instrument of change that he projected himself to be. He paid all the proper obeisances to all the other corridors of power (media and so on) and never detracted from the clear path laid out to him by the establishment puppet masters.




Debatable. He's not an actor though. He's about as no-nonsense, straight-forward, and boring a President as we've had in years.

As for the "instrument of change" part, I personally agree that he came up a bit short. Though again, it largely wasn't up to him, but Congress. Still, he was a vast improvement over the disastrous Bush Administration.



Nilgiri said:


> A lot of people (both with vested interests in welfare and govt and those that are regular folk) got swept up in that nonsense, remain and will remain on that cloud, thats human nature in many cases....but enough in the states that mattered this election were able to see through all of that and saw an even worse version of it about to be continued by Hillary. Multitudes of them gave Obama a chance and were genuinely hopeful about him...to them yesterday's McCain and Romney were like Hillary today




Let's just agree to disagree on Trump. In my opinion, he's a fake, and he doesn't support many policies that will help bring about positive change---especially economically. But again, we all have our opinions.



Nilgiri said:


> Obama threw it all away (well his puppet masters did...because of their overconfidence in show-boating rather than genuine economic development of estranged, overburdened America).




Certainly not "overconfidence" or "show-boating"---again, he was pretty low-key and no-nonsense. But I do agree that he came up short on genuine economic development for the middle and working classes. Though he did pull the economy out of a nasty recession. I give him credit for that.



Nilgiri said:


> So people have invested their confidence for the first time in a really really long time into someone that is not from the political class.




Yes, though a very bad choice, in my opinion. And Trump is very much a part of the economic elite, political or not.



Nilgiri said:


> *A potential mix of Ike, Teddy and Andrew Jackson* (the way I see it)....with his own unique approach.




 Not at all.

He may have the brashness of Jackson, but without any of the economic and political benefits for the middle and working classes.



Nilgiri said:


> Love him or hate him, the reason for him is 8 years of Obama and the democrats/establishment imposing hillary as a crowning legacy of that.




Hillary, perhaps. But not exactly Obama, he left office with a 60% approval rating:

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
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## Nilgiri

LA se Karachi said:


> Nothing wrong with a geographic argument for his inauguration crowd.
> 
> In any case, I was only responding to your completely false claim that his supporters aren't welfare recipients. The places in this country where the highest proportion of people receive welfare voted for Trump by a wide margin. That is a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, because people who are getting poorer or whose incomes stagnate while they increase dramatically for the wealthy should be ignored. And those who cannot escape poverty are better off starving, not having healthcare, and being homeless, I suppose. The economy is holding people captive, not welfare.
> 
> Many people who don't enroll in welfare programs, despite being eligible, don't escape poverty either. That's the truth. Working in retail or food service for $8-13 an hour doesn't move people into the middle class, even after many years of work experience. Not to mention that many of these people can't find steady work at all and bounce from job to job, often unable to get enough hours.
> 
> Republicans have controlled the South for some time now, and these states often have lowest tax rates, fewest regulations, and least amount of welfare benefits. What has resulted? The least economically dynamic, most uneducated, poorest, and unhealthiest part of the country, often with low levels of GDP per capita. These are facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's quite a mouthful. Don't confuse Democratic Socialism with Soviet-style Communism. The two are very, very different things. Democratic Socialism is primarily a form of capitalism with some socialism mixed in. I suppose countries like Norway, Denmark, Sweden, New Zealand, Iceland, and Austria are all doing terribly in your opinion. Not to mention that countries like Australia, Canada, the UK, Switzerland, Japan, and Germany are considerably more "socialist" than the US, but they seem to be doing just fine too.
> 
> I can go on and on about the problems and potential solutions for our country, but I'm not interested in a protracted discussion on the subject. I've had enough of them over the years. I'm not trying to get you to come over to my side. You're just as entitled to your opinion as I am. I was only responding to your false claim that people on welfare didn't vote for Trump, that's all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most minorities are overwhelmingly Democratic. I can post some exit polls if you'd like. Secondly, they don't vote for Democrats because of "welfare". Most of them are not on welfare. There are many issues that make them do so. And minimum wage raises, gun control, etc are not "hoaxes". Polling has consistently shown that minorities are much more liberal on almost all political issues than the country as a whole.
> 
> And, even very economically successful minorities like Asians are more Democratic than ever before thanks to the rightward, nativist lurch of the Republican party.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The vast majority of the people in the DC area are not tied to the federal government. This is a myth that has been debunked many times. It's just a self-deluding talking point parroted by right-wingers. The Washington DC metro does well because of the educational attainment of its workforce, the diversity of its economy, and simply because it is a major urban area to begin with that attracts professionals and corporations.
> 
> Another thing, most of the states that are most dependent on Federal aid are ones that Trump won:
> 
> View attachment 370964
> 
> 
> Also, I have no idea what Trump's skin color has to do with it. I can assure you that this is not the case. Minorities liked Bill Clinton quite a bit. Although, there were a chunk of people who didn't like Obama because of the color of his skin (though certainly not a majority).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, your point about his inauguration crowd may or may not be a fair one---I don't know as I haven't compared his crowds to Bush or Clinton. I don't really care, personally.
> 
> However, the polling was fine when it came to understanding people's political preferences. Where it failed was when it came to predicting voter _turnout_. More of those people did not vote than expected. This is why he continues to have an abysmal favorable rating. Many Democrats and moderates in the Midwest simply stayed home and some voted third party. I warned about that phenomenon on this very thread before the election. Trump narrowly won these states and the election (though Hillary still won the popular vote 48% to 46%).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, people turned out in large numbers because of "hope" and "change"---rightly or wrongly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Debatable. He made many changes, though perhaps not as many as he promised. Keep in mind that only Congress can pass laws, not the President. All he has is veto power. From 2011-2017 at least one house of Congress was controlled by the Republicans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely false, I'm afraid. President Obama _repeatedly_ tried to work with the Republicans and compromise. So much so that many of his original backers like me became somewhat disappointed in him. But even then, the Republicans stonewalled everything he tried and even shut the Federal Government down at one point. In fact, Mitch McConnell (the Senate leader of the Republicans) set a _record _for most filibusters in the Senate when his party was in the minority (until 2015), preventing a lot legislation from being passed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Debatable. He's not an actor though. He's about as no-nonsense, straight-forward, and boring a President as we've had in years.
> 
> As for the "instrument of change" part, I personally agree that he came up a bit short. Though again, it largely wasn't up to him, but Congress. Still, he was a vast improvement over the disastrous Bush Administration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's just agree to disagree on Trump. In my opinion, he's a fake, and he doesn't support many policies that will help bring about positive change---especially economically. But again, we all have our opinions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly not "overconfidence" or "show-boating"---again, he was pretty low-key and no-nonsense. But I do agree that he came up short on genuine economic development for the middle and working classes. Though he did pull the economy out of a nasty recession. I give him credit for that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, though a very bad choice, in my opinion. And Trump is very much a part of the economic elite, political or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all.
> 
> He may have the brashness of Jackson, but without any of the economic and political benefits for the middle and working classes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary, perhaps. But not exactly Obama, he left office with a 60% approval rating:
> 
> View attachment 370974



Fair enough. You bring up several valid points, but I don't have the time and neither is this the place to explain a lot of whats stuck in my head (and digging up all the explaining evidence etc).

I guess we can agree to disagree and move on.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## T-72M1

Penguin said:


> 'Nuff said


no, I don't think it says anything.

First off, Obama was obviously way more popular coming in to office, thanks in some part to the fawning drooling mainstream media, though his was truly a historic inauguration.. him being the first (half)black man etc, and the people were really fed up of the wars the incumbent had started.

Now have a look at the demographics of the city itself:





There was never a chance of Trump drawing in more people than Obama, if the capital was in Tennessee or something, then maybe the opposite would have held true, who knows..

People should stop trying to diminish Trump's win, which was historic in it's own right, and imo, more significant than Obama's because he had literally the entire mainstream media in not just America, but the world over, essentially calling him Hitler for 2 years, and he still won. Obama had it easy.


----------



## Devil Soul

*Trump asks CIA to be ready for wars against ‘Islamic terrorism’*
ANWAR IQBAL — UPDATED 18 minutes ago
WHATSAPP
 6 COMMENTS
 PRINT
WASHINGTON: On his first full working day as US president, Donald Trump reiterated his pledge to eradicate “Islamic terrorism” from the face of the planet and alerted the American intelligence agencies to be ready for wars. 

“Radical Islamic terrorism. And I said it yesterday — it has to be eradicated just off the face of the Earth. This is evil. This is evil,” Mr Trump told officers of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) when he visited its headquarters at Langley, Virginia, on Saturday. 



In his inaugural speech on Friday, the new US president vowed to “unite the civilised world against radical Islamic terrorism” and pledged to “eradicate (it) completely from the face of the Earth”. 

*President says journalists among most dishonest human beings*
During the long campaign for the 2016 presidential election, Mr Trump often criticised Barack Obama for not using the terms “radical Islamic terrorism” and said that unless the enemy was openly identified, it could not be defeated. 

In his speech at the CIA headquarters, the new president went a step ahead and warned his intelligence officials, and the American nation, that the war against the radical form of Islam was far from over. 

Mr Trump said that when he was young, he heard from one of his instructors that “the United States has never lost a war”. But now, “it’s like we haven’t won anything. We don’t win anymore.” 

Referring to America’s longest foreign war, in Afghanistan, Mr Trump said it had continued for so long because the United States did not use its full might. “We have not used the real abilities that we have. We’ve been restrained,” he said while promising CIA officials more powers than they have ever had to combat the country’s enemies. 

“We have to get rid of ISIS [Islamic State militant group]. Have to get rid of ISIS. We have no choice,” he declared, earning a warm applause from the audience. 

“There can be wars between countries, there can be wars.… This is a level of evil that we haven’t seen. And you’re going to go to it, and you’re going to do a phenomenal job. But we’re going to end it. It’s time. It’s time right now to end it,” he said. 

He told CIA officials that previous governments had not given them enough support but he would change this. “I want to just let you know that I am so behind you and I know, maybe sometimes you haven’t gotten the backing that you’ve wanted and you’re going to get so much backing. Maybe you’re going to say — please don’t give us so much backing,” he said. 

Mr Trump also criticised the US media for reporting that he had a feud with the American intelligence community. “They are among the most dishonest human beings on Earth …. I am with you 1,000 per cent,” he said. 

Before taking oath, Mr Trump had criticised the CIA for saying that the Russian intelligence had hacked the 2016 elections and that the Russians had materials that they could use to blackmail him. 

“Intelligence agencies should never have allowed this fake news to ‘leak’ into the public. One last shot at me. Are we living in Nazi Germany?” Mr Trump had tweeted on Jan 11. 

The president’s decision to talk about his war with the media and complain about the reporting of the size of the crowd at his inauguration ceremony, however, irked CIA veterans. 

“Former CIA director Brennan is deeply saddened and angered at Donald Trump’s despicable display of self-aggrandisement in front of CIA’s Memorial Wall of Agency heroes,” Mr Brennan’s former deputy chief of staff Nick Shapiro said in a statement. 

Other veterans said that many in the audience were troubled by the political tone of the speech, in which Mr Trump speculated about how many people in the room might have voted for him. 

CIA veterans argued that their agency was not a political party, it was always loyal to the president, whoever he or she might be.

_Published in Dawn, January 23rd, 2017_


WHATSAPP
 6 COMMENTS
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## Respect4Respect01

Devil Soul said:


> he heard from one of his instructors that “the United States has never lost a war”. But now, “it’s like we haven’t won anything. We don’t win anymore.”





Devil Soul said:


> “I want to just let you know that I am so behind you and I know, maybe sometimes you haven’t gotten the backing that you’ve wanted and you’re going to get so much backing. Maybe you’re going to say — please don’t give us so much backing,”



Are CIA officers also trained to hold their laugh?


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## Pakistan First

Trump will do for US what Bush couldn't achieve. Congrats to all Americans.


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## T-72M1



Reactions: Like Like:
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## T-Rex

Devil Soul said:


> *http://www.dawn.com/news/1310199/trump-asks-cia-to-be-ready-for-wars-against-islamic-terrorism*
> He told CIA officials that previous governments had not given them enough support but he would change this. “I want to just let you know that I am so behind you and I know, maybe sometimes you haven’t gotten the backing that you’ve wanted and you’re going to get so much backing. Maybe you’re going to say — please don’t give us so much backing,” he said.


*
The CIA guys should start wearing metal trousers. In case 'so much backing' should reach their rear end.*


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## The Eagle

@Zibago @Hell hound

The famous Hitman ....

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## Penguin

T-72M1 said:


> People should stop trying to diminish Trump's win, which was historic in it's own right, and imo, more significant than Obama's because he had literally the entire mainstream media in not just America, but the world over, essentially calling him Hitler for 2 years, and he still won. Obama had it easy.


Trump is diminishing Trumps victory by his own petty behavior: who cares how many people attended? Is it important? Does it matter if another President had a greater/lesser attendence? Personally, I wouldn't have wasted any presidential time on this (there would be more important things). This is in the same category as:

_"The US President’s team has made clear he wants a “full Monty” visit that will eclipse the trips of his predecessors in pomp and ceremony." _

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/donald-t...-to-visit-new-president.473821/#ixzz4Waj5MQcj


That's what the coming four years will be all about. You know, the important stuff.

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## T-72M1

Penguin said:


> You know, the important stuff.


Everything he's had to say about the important stuff so far has been great, let's hope he can deliver.


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## Penguin

T-72M1 said:


> Everything he's had to say about the important stuff so far has been great, let's hope he can deliver.


Yeah, if you think scalding the press and demanding royal treatment is important. He'll deliver much theater.

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## T-72M1

Penguin said:


> Yeah, if you think scalding the press and demanding royal treatment is important. He'll deliver much theater.


and that is a perfect example of people focusing on the wrong things.

Trump is an unconventional potus, he's broken all the conventions, smashed them to bits even. Being who he is got him to where he is, the mainstream media couldn't stop him then, and they're not going to rein him in or tame him now. His fiery inaugural address (where he tore through _both_ the 2 previous administrations/presidential terms) should have made that clear to everyone. 

The media still has it all wrong, as an example, they were obsessing over his meryl streep tweet earlier, "he's so petty and thin skinned, why is he doing this ?" 

but what he did was not only brilliant, but fair, because it was in self-defence, he didn't go out of his way to smear her, but merly streep did use a massive platform (20 million watching live) to personally attack his character, Trump counter punched right back in under 140 of his own and destroyed her, bing !

He's going to fight back when people are unfair, sometimes he'll swing and miss, like this recent and extremely unimportant/non consequential garbage about the size of the crowd, he's just swinging back because they're trying their best to diminish his victory. Btw, I haven't even bothered to look into the story because it's a tabloidy crap, I wouldn't be surprised if they're lying about stuff here too, just not worth wasting time on.

He won, he's the most powerful man on earth, domestically, he could just do talk radio in the US and the occasional appearance on a somewhat friendly network like Fox for press and completely ignore CNN, MSNBC etc... and still win his next term easy, which I'm predicting he will. The left in the US need to realize they're not dealing with an idiot like dubya anymore, call Trump 'chimpy', and he'll make a yo mamma joke of it and tweet-slam them back so hard they won't know what hit them.

All this rage is because the left in the US is in the process of losing the cultural war of ideas, obsessing about political correctness, the oppression olympics, radical 3rd wave feminism, all this crap that a weaponized hollywood propaganda machine churns out and wants to push _globally _! That crap is over, President Trump has drained their mana






and as far as the real important stuff is concerned, global islamic terror, detente with Russia.. etc, his rhetoric has been great, let us hope that he can deliver because the whole world will be better off for it if he succeeds.


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## Penguin

T-72M1 said:


> and that is a perfect example of people focusing on the wrong things.


Trump focussed on it, I could not avoid it. So much for the important stuff.


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## T-72M1

Penguin said:


> Trump focussed on it, I could not avoid it. So much for the important stuff.


Important stuff here -> clicky


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## Penguin

T-72M1 said:


> Important stuff here -> clicky


Sorry, I can't be bothered. Someone in the press just claimed the attendance to my new years reception was low. Lying bastards! I have to fight back. 

(great, now we're coopted, complicit)


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## T-72M1

Penguin said:


> Sorry, I can't be bothered. Someone in the press just claimed the attendance to my new years reception was low. Lying bastards! I have to fight back.
> 
> (great, now we're coopted, complicit)


Wouldn't it be nice if we were to see ruski flankers buddy refuel 'murrican hornets and strike eagles as they unleash combined tremendous death on islamic terrorists groups like fsa/isis etc ?


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## Penguin

T-72M1 said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if we were to see ruski flankers buddy refuel 'murrican hornets and strike eagles as they unleash combined tremendous death on islamic terrorists groups like fsa/isis etc ?


... and remain stuck with the Assad regime?

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## T-72M1

Penguin said:


> ... and remain stuck with the Assad regime?


hell yes !

“If I become president, the _era of nation building will be brought to a very swift and decisive end_,” 

_"We will partner with every nation that is willing to join us in the effort to defeat ISIS and radical Islamic terrorism"

"We will destroy ISIS. At the same time, we will pursue a new foreign policy that finally learns from the mistakes of the past. We will stop looking to topple regimes and overthrow governments, folks,"

“reinforce old alliances and form new ones, and unite the civilised world against radical Islamic terrorism, which we will eradicate completely from the face of the earth".
_
Assad stays, and new pro US Gaddafis and Saddams are installed to handle the mess locally, Trump and Putin provide the muscle to deal with the jihadist cancer whenever required.


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## Penguin

T-72M1 said:


> Important stuff here -> clicky


https://defence.pk/threads/russia-and-turkey-conduct-first-joint-air-strikes-against-isil.473299/

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## T-72M1

Penguin said:


> https://defence.pk/threads/russia-and-turkey-conduct-first-joint-air-strikes-against-isil.473299/


good, strongman Erdogan joins the party, the whole world should unite and kill these jihadists.


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## ahojunk

H!TchHiker said:


>


.
This is blatantly untrue and used to defame and belittle Trump.
Trump's script was genuine, but not the Bee movie's script.
I am not a fan of Trump but he is elected President according to the US system.
It doesn't matter he didn't win the popular vote as the election rules are well set and agreed by all.
Hillary didn't complain about the electoral system, why should we?
.

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## T-72M1



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## H!TchHiker

ahojunk said:


> .
> This is blatantly untrue and used to defame and belittle Trump.
> Trump's script was genuine, but not the Bee movie's script.
> I am not a fan of Trump but he is elected President according to the US system.
> It doesn't matter he didn't win the popular vote as the election rules are well set and agreed by all.
> Hillary didn't complain about the electoral system, why should we?
> .


Global citizen, US effect all directly or indirectly so we can comment i believe.. I am not complaining ,US has elected its President and it doesn't matter whether he win popular vote or not..Agree with this.Nobody is questioning his legitimacy here.


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## Nilgiri

T-72M1 said:


>



Appreciate you putting the young turds on now and then hehe, when even they have to admit trump did something good.

Otherwise I really wouldn't be keeping track of those guys lulz.

The best moment for me regarding them so far was that guy asking them about why they chose the name Young Turks and Sargon of Akkad analysis of that lol. You ever watch that one?


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## T-72M1

Nilgiri said:


> Appreciate you putting the young turds on now and then hehe, when even they have to admit trump did something good.
> 
> Otherwise I really wouldn't be keeping track of those guys lulz.



Their live meltdown on election night was awesome. I've been watching them for years, still do, they used to be ok before taking a very dramatic extreme left and their commentary went down the toilet, wonder what happened there. 

They've lost though, and just like Obama ushered in a liberal era and a lot of people like The Young Turks rode those cultural winds and into prominence, people on the right are now going to rise riding on President Trump's coattails, the cultural jetstreams are blowing hard and fast.

Crowder trolls Soros' women's march:










Nilgiri said:


> The best moment for me regarding them so far was that guy asking them about why they chose the name Young Turks and Sargon of Akkad analysis of that lol. You ever watch that one?


LOL, seen a few of his TyT vids, not that one though, link ? 

and how about this in Germany:

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## Nilgiri

T-72M1 said:


> LOL, seen a few of his TyT vids, not that one though, link ?



There was a better one he had in an alternate channel that I cant seem to find for some reason.

Here is a larger overall video about TYT, the whole one is good (includes the election meltdown, alex jones trolling them etc) but the part im talking about starts at about the 17 minute mark:

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## RabzonKhan

*Is American Democracy Strong Enough for Trump?*

*The case against panic.*

By FRANCIS FUKUYAMA
January 23, 2017

*As an American citizen, I have been rather appalled, like many others, at the rise of Donald Trump. I find it hard to imagine a personality less suited by temperament and background to be the leader of the world’s foremost democracy.*

*On the other hand, as a political scientist, I am looking ahead to his presidency with great interest, since it will be a fascinating test of how strong American institutions are. Americans believe deeply in the legitimacy of their constitutional system, in large measure because its checks and balances were designed to provide safeguards against tyranny and the excessive concentration of executive power. But that system in many ways has never been challenged by a leader who sets out to undermine its existing norms and rules. So we are embarked in a great natural experiment that will show whether the United States is a nation of laws or a nation of men.*

President Trump differs from almost every single one of his 43 predecessors in a variety of important ways. His business career has shown a single-minded determination to maximize his own self-interest and to get around inconvenient rules whenever they stood in his way, for example by forcing contractors to sue him in order to be paid. He was elected on the basis of a classic populist campaign, mobilizing a passionate core of largely working-class voters who believe—often quite rightly—that the system has not been working for them. He has attacked the entire elite in Washington, including his own party, as being part of a corrupt cabal that he hopes to unseat. He has already violated countless informal norms concerning presidential decorum, including overt and egregious lying, and has sought to undermine the legitimacy of any number of established institutions, from the intelligence community (which he compared to Nazis) to the Federal Reserve (which he accused of trying to elect Hillary Clinton) to the American system of electoral administration (which he said was rigged, until he won).

*Daron Acemoglu, an economist who studies failing states, has argued that American checks and balances are not as strong as Americans typically believe: Congress is controlled by Trump’s party and will do his bidding; the judiciary can be shifted by new appointments to the Supreme Court and the federal judiciary; and the executive branch bureaucracy’s 4,000 political appointees will bend their agencies to the president’s will. The elites who opposed him are coming around to accepting him as normal president. He could also have argued that the mainstream media, which thinks of itself as a fourth branch holding the president accountable, is under relentless attack from Trump and his followers as politicized purveyors of “fake news.” Acemoglu argues that the main source of resistance now is civil society, that is, mobilization of millions of ordinary citizens to protest Trump’s policies and excesses, like the marches that took place in Washington and cities around the country the day after the inauguration.*

*Acemoglu is right that civil society is a critical check on presidential power, and that it is necessary for the progressive left to come out of its election funk and mobilize to support policies they favor. I suspect, however, that America’s institutional system is stronger than portrayed. *I argue in my most recent book that the American political system in fact has too many checks and balances, and should be streamlined to permit more decisive government action. Although Trump’s arrival in the White House creates huge worries about potential abuses of power, I still believe that my earlier position is correct, and that the rise of an American strongman is actually a response to the earlier paralysis of the political system. More paralysis is not the answer, despite the widespread calls for “resistance” on the left.

Many institutional checks on power will continue to operate in a Trump presidency. While Republicans are celebrating their control of both houses of Congress and the presidency, there are huge ideological divisions within their coalition. Trump is a populist nationalist who seems to believe in strong government, not a small-government conservative, and this fracture will emerge as the new administration deals with issues from ending Obamacare to funding infrastructure projects. Trump can indeed change the judiciary, or more troubling, simply ignore court decisions and try to delegitimize those judges standing in his way. But shifting the balance in the courts is a very slow process whose effects will not be fully felt for a number of years. More overt attacks on the judiciary will produce great blowback, as happened when he attacked Federal District Judge Gonzalo Curiel during the campaign.

Trump will have enormous difficulties controlling the executive branch, as anyone who has worked in it would understand. Many of Trump’s Cabinet appointees, like James Mattis, Rex Tillerson and Nikki Haley, have already expressed views clearly at odds with his. Even if they are loyal, it takes a huge amount of skill and experience to master America’s enormous bureaucracy. It is true that the U.S. has a far higher number of political appointees than other democracies. But Trump does not come into office with a huge cadre of loyal supporters that he can insert into the bureaucracy. He has never run anything bigger than a large family business, and does not have 4,000 children or in-laws available to staff the U.S. government. Many of the new assistant and deputy secretaries will be Republican careerists with no particular personal ties to El Jefe.

Finally, there is American federalism. Washington does not control the agenda on a host of issues. Undermining Obamacare on a federal level will shift a huge burden onto the states, including those run by Republican governors who will have to balance budgets on the backs of the default from Washington. California, where I live, is virtually a different country from Trumpland and will make its own environmental rules regardless of what the president says or does.

*In the end, Trump’s ability to break through institutional constraints will ultimately come down to politics, and in particular to the support he gets from other Republicans. His strategy right now is clear: He wants to use his “movement” to intimidate anyone who gets in the way of his policy agenda. And he hopes to intimidate the mainstream media by discrediting them and undermining their ability to hold him accountable. He is trying to do this, however, using a core base that is no more than a quarter to a third of the American electorate. There are already enough Republican senators who might break with the administration on issues like Russia or Obamacare to deny their party a majority in that body.* And Trump has not done a great job since Election Day in alleviating the skepticism of anyone outside of his core group of supporters, as his steadily sagging poll numbers indicate. Demonizing the media on the second day of your administration does not bode well for your ability to use it as a megaphone to get the word out and persuade those not already on your side.

While I hope that all of these checks will operate to constrain Trump, I continue to believe that we need to change the rules to make government more effective by reducing certain checks that have paralyzed government. Democrats should not imitate the behavior of Republicans under President Barack Obama and oppose every single initiative or appointee coming out of the White House. It is absurd that any one of 100 senators can veto any midlevel executive branch appointee they want. In some respects, unified government will alleviate some of our recent dysfunctions, which Trump’s opponents need to recognize. The last time Congress passed all of its spending bills under “regular order” was two decades ago. The U.S. desperately needs to spend more money on its military to meet challenges from countries like China and Russia; it has not been able to do so because the Defense Department was operating under the 2013 sequester that was in turn the product of congressional gridlock.

Or take infrastructure, which is the one part of the Trump agenda that I (and many Democrats) would support. The country has been gridlocked here as well, with the biggest source of opposition being the Tea Party wing of Trump’s own party, who would have stymied Hillary Clinton’s own initiative had she been elected instead. Trump has the opportunity now to break with the Freedom Caucus in the House and push for major new spending on infrastructure, which he could do with help from Nancy Pelosi’s Democrats. Even so, such an initiative will face enormous obstacles due to the layers of regulation at federal and state levels. It is these small checks that make new infrastructure projects so costly and protracted. Anyone serious about the substance of this policy should see this an opportunity to streamline this process.

It is important to remember that one of the reasons for Trump’s rise is the accurate perception that the American political system was in many respects broken—captured by special interests and paralyzed by its inability to make or implement basic decisions. This, not a sudden affinity for Russia, is why the idea of a Putin-like strongman has suddenly gained appeal in America. The way democratic accountability is supposed to work is for the dominant party to be allowed to govern, and then be held accountable in two or four years time for the results it has produced. Continued stalemate and paralysis will only convince people that the system is so fundamentally broken that it needs to be saved by a leader who can break all rules—if not Trump, then a successor.

So I’m willing to let Trump govern without trying to obstruct every single initiative that comes from him. I don’t think his policies will work, and I believe the American people will see this very soon. However, the single most dangerous abuses of power are ones affecting the system’s future accountability. What the new generation of populist-nationalists like Putin, Chávez in Venezuela, Erdogan in Turkey, and Orbán in Hungary have done is to tilt the playing field to make sure they can never be removed from power in the future. That process has already been underway for some time in America, through Republican gerrymandering of congressional districts and the use of voter ID laws to disenfranchise potential Democratic voters. The moment that the field is so tilted that accountability becomes impossible is when the system shifts from being a real liberal democracy to being an electoral authoritarian one.

_Francis Fukuyama is senior fellow at Stanford University and author of _Political Order and Political Decay: From the Industrial Revolution to the Globalization of Democracy.

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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 371636
> 
> 
> 
> *Is American Democracy Strong Enough for Trump?*
> 
> *The case against panic.*
> 
> By FRANCIS FUKUYAMA
> January 23, 2017
> 
> *As an American citizen, I have been rather appalled, like many others, at the rise of Donald Trump. I find it hard to imagine a personality less suited by temperament and background to be the leader of the world’s foremost democracy.*
> 
> *On the other hand, as a political scientist, I am looking ahead to his presidency with great interest, since it will be a fascinating test of how strong American institutions are. Americans believe deeply in the legitimacy of their constitutional system, in large measure because its checks and balances were designed to provide safeguards against tyranny and the excessive concentration of executive power. But that system in many ways has never been challenged by a leader who sets out to undermine its existing norms and rules. So we are embarked in a great natural experiment that will show whether the United States is a nation of laws or a nation of men.*
> 
> President Trump differs from almost every single one of his 43 predecessors in a variety of important ways. His business career has shown a single-minded determination to maximize his own self-interest and to get around inconvenient rules whenever they stood in his way, for example by forcing contractors to sue him in order to be paid. He was elected on the basis of a classic populist campaign, mobilizing a passionate core of largely working-class voters who believe—often quite rightly—that the system has not been working for them. He has attacked the entire elite in Washington, including his own party, as being part of a corrupt cabal that he hopes to unseat. He has already violated countless informal norms concerning presidential decorum, including overt and egregious lying, and has sought to undermine the legitimacy of any number of established institutions, from the intelligence community (which he compared to Nazis) to the Federal Reserve (which he accused of trying to elect Hillary Clinton) to the American system of electoral administration (which he said was rigged, until he won).
> 
> *Daron Acemoglu, an economist who studies failing states, has argued that American checks and balances are not as strong as Americans typically believe: Congress is controlled by Trump’s party and will do his bidding; the judiciary can be shifted by new appointments to the Supreme Court and the federal judiciary; and the executive branch bureaucracy’s 4,000 political appointees will bend their agencies to the president’s will. The elites who opposed him are coming around to accepting him as normal president. He could also have argued that the mainstream media, which thinks of itself as a fourth branch holding the president accountable, is under relentless attack from Trump and his followers as politicized purveyors of “fake news.” Acemoglu argues that the main source of resistance now is civil society, that is, mobilization of millions of ordinary citizens to protest Trump’s policies and excesses, like the marches that took place in Washington and cities around the country the day after the inauguration.*
> 
> *Acemoglu is right that civil society is a critical check on presidential power, and that it is necessary for the progressive left to come out of its election funk and mobilize to support policies they favor. I suspect, however, that America’s institutional system is stronger than portrayed. *I argue in my most recent book that the American political system in fact has too many checks and balances, and should be streamlined to permit more decisive government action. Although Trump’s arrival in the White House creates huge worries about potential abuses of power, I still believe that my earlier position is correct, and that the rise of an American strongman is actually a response to the earlier paralysis of the political system. More paralysis is not the answer, despite the widespread calls for “resistance” on the left.
> 
> Many institutional checks on power will continue to operate in a Trump presidency. While Republicans are celebrating their control of both houses of Congress and the presidency, there are huge ideological divisions within their coalition. Trump is a populist nationalist who seems to believe in strong government, not a small-government conservative, and this fracture will emerge as the new administration deals with issues from ending Obamacare to funding infrastructure projects. Trump can indeed change the judiciary, or more troubling, simply ignore court decisions and try to delegitimize those judges standing in his way. But shifting the balance in the courts is a very slow process whose effects will not be fully felt for a number of years. More overt attacks on the judiciary will produce great blowback, as happened when he attacked Federal District Judge Gonzalo Curiel during the campaign.
> 
> Trump will have enormous difficulties controlling the executive branch, as anyone who has worked in it would understand. Many of Trump’s Cabinet appointees, like James Mattis, Rex Tillerson and Nikki Haley, have already expressed views clearly at odds with his. Even if they are loyal, it takes a huge amount of skill and experience to master America’s enormous bureaucracy. It is true that the U.S. has a far higher number of political appointees than other democracies. But Trump does not come into office with a huge cadre of loyal supporters that he can insert into the bureaucracy. He has never run anything bigger than a large family business, and does not have 4,000 children or in-laws available to staff the U.S. government. Many of the new assistant and deputy secretaries will be Republican careerists with no particular personal ties to El Jefe.
> 
> Finally, there is American federalism. Washington does not control the agenda on a host of issues. Undermining Obamacare on a federal level will shift a huge burden onto the states, including those run by Republican governors who will have to balance budgets on the backs of the default from Washington. California, where I live, is virtually a different country from Trumpland and will make its own environmental rules regardless of what the president says or does.
> 
> *In the end, Trump’s ability to break through institutional constraints will ultimately come down to politics, and in particular to the support he gets from other Republicans. His strategy right now is clear: He wants to use his “movement” to intimidate anyone who gets in the way of his policy agenda. And he hopes to intimidate the mainstream media by discrediting them and undermining their ability to hold him accountable. He is trying to do this, however, using a core base that is no more than a quarter to a third of the American electorate. There are already enough Republican senators who might break with the administration on issues like Russia or Obamacare to deny their party a majority in that body.* And Trump has not done a great job since Election Day in alleviating the skepticism of anyone outside of his core group of supporters, as his steadily sagging poll numbers indicate. Demonizing the media on the second day of your administration does not bode well for your ability to use it as a megaphone to get the word out and persuade those not already on your side.
> 
> While I hope that all of these checks will operate to constrain Trump, I continue to believe that we need to change the rules to make government more effective by reducing certain checks that have paralyzed government. Democrats should not imitate the behavior of Republicans under President Barack Obama and oppose every single initiative or appointee coming out of the White House. It is absurd that any one of 100 senators can veto any midlevel executive branch appointee they want. In some respects, unified government will alleviate some of our recent dysfunctions, which Trump’s opponents need to recognize. The last time Congress passed all of its spending bills under “regular order” was two decades ago. The U.S. desperately needs to spend more money on its military to meet challenges from countries like China and Russia; it has not been able to do so because the Defense Department was operating under the 2013 sequester that was in turn the product of congressional gridlock.
> 
> Or take infrastructure, which is the one part of the Trump agenda that I (and many Democrats) would support. The country has been gridlocked here as well, with the biggest source of opposition being the Tea Party wing of Trump’s own party, who would have stymied Hillary Clinton’s own initiative had she been elected instead. Trump has the opportunity now to break with the Freedom Caucus in the House and push for major new spending on infrastructure, which he could do with help from Nancy Pelosi’s Democrats. Even so, such an initiative will face enormous obstacles due to the layers of regulation at federal and state levels. It is these small checks that make new infrastructure projects so costly and protracted. Anyone serious about the substance of this policy should see this an opportunity to streamline this process.
> 
> It is important to remember that one of the reasons for Trump’s rise is the accurate perception that the American political system was in many respects broken—captured by special interests and paralyzed by its inability to make or implement basic decisions. This, not a sudden affinity for Russia, is why the idea of a Putin-like strongman has suddenly gained appeal in America. The way democratic accountability is supposed to work is for the dominant party to be allowed to govern, and then be held accountable in two or four years time for the results it has produced. Continued stalemate and paralysis will only convince people that the system is so fundamentally broken that it needs to be saved by a leader who can break all rules—if not Trump, then a successor.
> 
> So I’m willing to let Trump govern without trying to obstruct every single initiative that comes from him. I don’t think his policies will work, and I believe the American people will see this very soon. However, the single most dangerous abuses of power are ones affecting the system’s future accountability. What the new generation of populist-nationalists like Putin, Chávez in Venezuela, Erdogan in Turkey, and Orbán in Hungary have done is to tilt the playing field to make sure they can never be removed from power in the future. That process has already been underway for some time in America, through Republican gerrymandering of congressional districts and the use of voter ID laws to disenfranchise potential Democratic voters. The moment that the field is so tilted that accountability becomes impossible is when the system shifts from being a real liberal democracy to being an electoral authoritarian one.
> 
> _Francis Fukuyama is senior fellow at Stanford University and author of _Political Order and Political Decay: From the Industrial Revolution to the Globalization of Democracy.




Good to see you around Rabzon. Lets have an honest exchange about all of this stuff after 100 days of Trump so we have clearer picture.

I just checked, that will be May 1st. Easy to remember (May Day).

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Good to see you around Rabzon. Lets have an honest exchange about all of this stuff after 100 days of Trump so we have clearer picture.
> 
> I just checked, that will be May 1st. Easy to remember (May Day).



If the planet is still here.

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## Nilgiri

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> If the planet is still here.



I was promised thermonuclear war on the first few hours of the trump presidency by the lunatic liberals, but so far looks like we are in the clear. 

Phew! Dodged that bullet!

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> I was promised thermonuclear war on the first few hours of the trump presidency by the lunatic liberals, but so far looks like we are in the clear.
> 
> Phew! Dodged that bullet!



Things may not be so bad after all!

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## Penguin

RabzonKhan said:


> *Is American Democracy Strong Enough for Trump?*
> 
> *The case against panic.*
> 
> By FRANCIS FUKUYAMA
> January 23, 2017
> 
> *As an American citizen, I have been rather appalled, like many others, at the rise of Donald Trump. I find it hard to imagine a personality less suited by temperament and background to be the leader of the world’s foremost democracy.*
> 
> *On the other hand, as a political scientist, I am looking ahead to his presidency with great interest, since it will be a fascinating test of how strong American institutions are. Americans believe deeply in the legitimacy of their constitutional system, in large measure because its checks and balances were designed to provide safeguards against tyranny and the excessive concentration of executive power. But that system in many ways has never been challenged by a leader who sets out to undermine its existing norms and rules. So we are embarked in a great natural experiment that will show whether the United States is a nation of laws or a nation of men.*
> 
> President Trump differs from almost every single one of his 43 predecessors in a variety of important ways. His business career has shown a single-minded determination to maximize his own self-interest and to get around inconvenient rules whenever they stood in his way, for example by forcing contractors to sue him in order to be paid. He was elected on the basis of a classic populist campaign, mobilizing a passionate core of largely working-class voters who believe—often quite rightly—that the system has not been working for them. He has attacked the entire elite in Washington, including his own party, as being part of a corrupt cabal that he hopes to unseat. He has already violated countless informal norms concerning presidential decorum, including overt and egregious lying, and has sought to undermine the legitimacy of any number of established institutions, from the intelligence community (which he compared to Nazis) to the Federal Reserve (which he accused of trying to elect Hillary Clinton) to the American system of electoral administration (which he said was rigged, until he won).
> 
> *Daron Acemoglu, an economist who studies failing states, has argued that American checks and balances are not as strong as Americans typically believe: Congress is controlled by Trump’s party and will do his bidding; the judiciary can be shifted by new appointments to the Supreme Court and the federal judiciary; and the executive branch bureaucracy’s 4,000 political appointees will bend their agencies to the president’s will. The elites who opposed him are coming around to accepting him as normal president. He could also have argued that the mainstream media, which thinks of itself as a fourth branch holding the president accountable, is under relentless attack from Trump and his followers as politicized purveyors of “fake news.” Acemoglu argues that the main source of resistance now is civil society, that is, mobilization of millions of ordinary citizens to protest Trump’s policies and excesses, like the marches that took place in Washington and cities around the country the day after the inauguration.*
> 
> *Acemoglu is right that civil society is a critical check on presidential power, and that it is necessary for the progressive left to come out of its election funk and mobilize to support policies they favor. I suspect, however, that America’s institutional system is stronger than portrayed. *I argue in my most recent book that the American political system in fact has too many checks and balances, and should be streamlined to permit more decisive government action. Although Trump’s arrival in the White House creates huge worries about potential abuses of power, I still believe that my earlier position is correct, and that the rise of an American strongman is actually a response to the earlier paralysis of the political system. More paralysis is not the answer, despite the widespread calls for “resistance” on the left.
> 
> Many institutional checks on power will continue to operate in a Trump presidency. While Republicans are celebrating their control of both houses of Congress and the presidency, there are huge ideological divisions within their coalition. Trump is a populist nationalist who seems to believe in strong government, not a small-government conservative, and this fracture will emerge as the new administration deals with issues from ending Obamacare to funding infrastructure projects. Trump can indeed change the judiciary, or more troubling, simply ignore court decisions and try to delegitimize those judges standing in his way. But shifting the balance in the courts is a very slow process whose effects will not be fully felt for a number of years. More overt attacks on the judiciary will produce great blowback, as happened when he attacked Federal District Judge Gonzalo Curiel during the campaign.
> 
> Trump will have enormous difficulties controlling the executive branch, as anyone who has worked in it would understand. Many of Trump’s Cabinet appointees, like James Mattis, Rex Tillerson and Nikki Haley, have already expressed views clearly at odds with his. Even if they are loyal, it takes a huge amount of skill and experience to master America’s enormous bureaucracy. It is true that the U.S. has a far higher number of political appointees than other democracies. But Trump does not come into office with a huge cadre of loyal supporters that he can insert into the bureaucracy. He has never run anything bigger than a large family business, and does not have 4,000 children or in-laws available to staff the U.S. government. Many of the new assistant and deputy secretaries will be Republican careerists with no particular personal ties to El Jefe.
> 
> Finally, there is American federalism. Washington does not control the agenda on a host of issues. Undermining Obamacare on a federal level will shift a huge burden onto the states, including those run by Republican governors who will have to balance budgets on the backs of the default from Washington. California, where I live, is virtually a different country from Trumpland and will make its own environmental rules regardless of what the president says or does.
> 
> *In the end, Trump’s ability to break through institutional constraints will ultimately come down to politics, and in particular to the support he gets from other Republicans. His strategy right now is clear: He wants to use his “movement” to intimidate anyone who gets in the way of his policy agenda. And he hopes to intimidate the mainstream media by discrediting them and undermining their ability to hold him accountable. He is trying to do this, however, using a core base that is no more than a quarter to a third of the American electorate. There are already enough Republican senators who might break with the administration on issues like Russia or Obamacare to deny their party a majority in that body.* And Trump has not done a great job since Election Day in alleviating the skepticism of anyone outside of his core group of supporters, as his steadily sagging poll numbers indicate. Demonizing the media on the second day of your administration does not bode well for your ability to use it as a megaphone to get the word out and persuade those not already on your side.
> 
> While I hope that all of these checks will operate to constrain Trump, I continue to believe that we need to change the rules to make government more effective by reducing certain checks that have paralyzed government. Democrats should not imitate the behavior of Republicans under President Barack Obama and oppose every single initiative or appointee coming out of the White House. It is absurd that any one of 100 senators can veto any midlevel executive branch appointee they want. In some respects, unified government will alleviate some of our recent dysfunctions, which Trump’s opponents need to recognize. The last time Congress passed all of its spending bills under “regular order” was two decades ago. The U.S. desperately needs to spend more money on its military to meet challenges from countries like China and Russia; it has not been able to do so because the Defense Department was operating under the 2013 sequester that was in turn the product of congressional gridlock.
> 
> Or take infrastructure, which is the one part of the Trump agenda that I (and many Democrats) would support. The country has been gridlocked here as well, with the biggest source of opposition being the Tea Party wing of Trump’s own party, who would have stymied Hillary Clinton’s own initiative had she been elected instead. Trump has the opportunity now to break with the Freedom Caucus in the House and push for major new spending on infrastructure, which he could do with help from Nancy Pelosi’s Democrats. Even so, such an initiative will face enormous obstacles due to the layers of regulation at federal and state levels. It is these small checks that make new infrastructure projects so costly and protracted. Anyone serious about the substance of this policy should see this an opportunity to streamline this process.
> 
> It is important to remember that one of the reasons for Trump’s rise is the accurate perception that the American political system was in many respects broken—captured by special interests and paralyzed by its inability to make or implement basic decisions. This, not a sudden affinity for Russia, is why the idea of a Putin-like strongman has suddenly gained appeal in America. The way democratic accountability is supposed to work is for the dominant party to be allowed to govern, and then be held accountable in two or four years time for the results it has produced. Continued stalemate and paralysis will only convince people that the system is so fundamentally broken that it needs to be saved by a leader who can break all rules—if not Trump, then a successor.
> 
> So I’m willing to let Trump govern without trying to obstruct every single initiative that comes from him. I don’t think his policies will work, and I believe the American people will see this very soon. However, the single most dangerous abuses of power are ones affecting the system’s future accountability. What the new generation of populist-nationalists like Putin, Chávez in Venezuela, Erdogan in Turkey, and Orbán in Hungary have done is to tilt the playing field to make sure they can never be removed from power in the future. That process has already been underway for some time in America, through Republican gerrymandering of congressional districts and the use of voter ID laws to disenfranchise potential Democratic voters. The moment that the field is so tilted that accountability becomes impossible is when the system shifts from being a real liberal democracy to being an electoral authoritarian one.
> 
> _Francis Fukuyama is senior fellow at Stanford University and author of _Political Order and Political Decay: From the Industrial Revolution to the Globalization of Democracy.



AS FOR CONTROL OF BOTH HOUSE AND SENATE, THE NEXT ELECTION IS JUST 2 YEARS AWAY....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_elections,_2018

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## LA se Karachi

Penguin said:


> AS FOR CONTROL OF BOTH HOUSE AND SENATE, THE NEXT ELECTION IS JUST 2 YEARS AWAY....
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2018
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_elections,_2018




Lol. Hilarious video.


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## T-72M1

Though it’s become a go-to slur for Trump supporters sounding off on _Fox News_, the term ‘snowflake’ started out among the Left, a way of criticising its own for being too sensitive, too easily outraged and too entitled.

If it rings a bell, it’s because it originated in Chuck Palahniuk’s _Fight Club_ novel, the Tyler Durden line being notably emphasised in David Fincher’s 1999 film adaptation.

Asked about the popularisation of the term by the Evening Standard, Palahniuk said: “It does come from _Fight Club_. There is a line, ‘You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.’”

You could argue the film is about rejecting the kind of slacktivism that is widespread today in favour of actual action (albeit the pyromaniacal kind). Palahniuk does take issue with this generation’s mindset.

“There is a kind of new Victorianism,” he said. “Every generation gets offended by different things but my friends who teach in high school tell me that their students are very easily offended.”

He believes in the face of a renewed Right under Trump, the Left needs to change its approach.

“The modern Left is always reacting to things, once they get their show on the road culturally they will stop being so offended.” He claimed, though added: “That’s just my bullsh*t opinion.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...ub-unique-snowflake-phrase-term-a7543406.html

=====================================================================

By Julia Edwards Ainsley | WASHINGTON

President Donald Trump is expected to sign executive orders starting on Wednesday that include a temporary ban on most refugees and a suspension of visas for citizens of Syria and six other Middle Eastern and African countries, according to several congressional aides and immigration experts briefed on the matter.

Trump, who tweeted on Tuesday night that a "big day" was planned on national security on Wednesday, is expected to order a multi-month ban on allowing refugees into the United States except for religious minorities escaping persecution, until more aggressive vetting is in place.

Another order will block visas being issued to anyone from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen, said the aides and experts, who asked not to be identified.

In his tweet late on Tuesday, Trump said: "Big day planned on NATIONAL SECURITY tomorrow. Among many other things, we will build the wall!"

The border security measures likely include directing the construction of a border wall with Mexico and other actions to reduce the number of illegal immigrants living inside the United States.

The sources have said the first of the orders will be signed on Wednesday. With Trump considering measures to tighten border security, he could turn his attention to the refugee issue later this week.

Stephen Legomsky, who was chief counsel at U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services in the Obama administration, said the president had the authority to limit refugee admissions and the issuance of visas to specific countries if the administration determined it was in the public’s interest.

“From a legal standpoint, it would be exactly within his legal rights,” said Legomsky, a professor at Washington University School of Law in St. Louis. “But from a policy standpoint, it would be terrible idea because there is such an urgent humanitarian need right now for refugees.”


The Republican president, who took office last Friday, was expected to sign the first of the orders at the Department of Homeland Security, whose responsibilities include immigration and border security.

On the campaign trail, Trump initially proposed a temporary ban on Muslims entering the United States, which he said would protect Americans from jihadist attacks.

Both Trump and his nominee for attorney general, U.S. Senator Jeff Sessions, have since said they would focus the restrictions on countries whose migrants could pose a threat, rather than placing a ban on people who follow a specific religion.

Many Trump supporters decried former President Barack Obama's decision to increase the number of Syrian refugees admitted to the United States over fears that those fleeing the country's civil war would carry out attacks.


LEGAL CHALLENGES POSSIBLE

Detractors could launch legal challenges to the moves if all the countries subject to the ban are Muslim-majority nations, said immigration expert Hiroshi Motomura at UCLA School of Law. Legal arguments could claim the executive orders discriminate against a particular religion, which would be unconstitutional, he said.

"His comments during the campaign and a number of people on his team focused very much on religion as the target," Motomura said.


To block entry from the designated countries, Trump is likely to instruct the State Department to stop issuing visas to people from those nations, according to sources familiar with the visa process. He could also instruct U.S. Customs and Border Protection to stop any current visa holders from those countries from entering the United States.

White House spokesman Sean Spicer said on Tuesday that the State and Homeland Security Departments would work on the vetting process once Trump's nominee to head the State Department, Rex Tillerson, is installed.

Other measures may include directing all agencies to finish work on a biometric identification system for non-citizens entering and exiting the United States and a crackdown on immigrants fraudulently receiving government benefits, according to the congressional aides and immigration experts.

To restrict illegal immigration, Trump has promised to build a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border and to deport illegal migrants living inside the United States.

Trump is also expected to take part in a ceremony installing his new secretary of homeland security, retired Marine General John Kelly, on Wednesday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-exclusive-idUSKBN1582XQ?il=0

looks like he's going to build that wall after all.






===================================================================

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (Reuters) - The election of Republican businessman Donald Trump as president of the United States has some Californians dreaming - of their own country.

One in every three California residents supports the most populous U.S. state's peaceful withdrawal from the union, according to a new Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll, many of them Democrats strongly opposed to Trump's ascension to the country's highest office.

The 32 percent support rate is sharply higher than the last time the poll asked Californians about secession, in 2014, when one-in-five or 20 percent favored it around the time Scotland held its independence referendum and voted to remain in the United Kingdom.

California also far surpasses the national average favoring secession, which stood at 22 percent, down from 24 percent in 2014.

The poll surveyed 500 Californians among more than 14,000 adults nationwide from Dec. 6 to Jan. 19 and has a credibility interval, a measure of accuracy, of one percentage point nationally and five percentage points in California.

The idea of secession is largely a settled matter in the United States, though the impulse to break away carries on in some corners of the country, most notably in Texas.

While interest has remained about the same nationwide, it has found more favor in California and the concept has even earned a catchy name - "Calexit."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/more-californians-dreaming-country-without-trump-poll-192311764.html

lol


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## T-72M1




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## Solomon2

*DisruptJ20 Anarchists Torched Muslim Immigrant's Limo, Costing Him $70,000 in Damage*




BY DEBRA HEINE JANUARY 23, 2017





A Muslim immigrant who saw his livelihood set on fire by a mob of hateful and violent American hooligans would seem to be the perfect poster child for the liberal cult of victimhood.

Yet I'm not detecting much sympathy from the left on behalf of Muhammad Ashraf, the owner of Nationwide Chauffeur Services, whose limousine was torched and driver injured during the anti-Trump anarchist riots in downtown Washington on Inauguration Day.

Ashraf spoke out against the anti-Trump demonstration to Red Alert Politics, saying that while he wasn’t a supporter of Donald Trump during the campaign, Friday’s protests were completely counter-productive. The left's massive temper tantrum could end up costing the fellow Trump critic $70,000 with the loss of his limo. Ashraf said, "I did not agree with many of the things he said, but that still does not give me the right to go and affect someone's livelihood."

“I really don’t think we need to take this [violent] route,” he said.

Ashraf’s employee, Luis Villarroel, 58, was dropping a client off at their destination when things turned ugly. Protesters smashed doors and windows in the vicinity, but then turned their attention to Villarroel and the limo. People began pounding on the car and started throwing stones and bricks in his direction. The driver ended up going to the hospital for cuts on his hands and arms from glass being shattered by thrown projectiles.

"[We've] been in business for over 25 years and this is the first time this has happened," Ashraf said.

Ashraf explained that with the loss of the vehicle, his company is now in the hole for $70,000 (if insurance doesn’t cover riots) plus commission and the medical bills for his driver.

It’s ironic to think that protesters are angry with President Trump for his proposed plan to harm and demonize immigrants and Muslims, yet they personally have a hand in destroying the livelihood of a Muslim immigrant.

But when people are in need, there are other decent Americans to pay it forward and help.​

One anarchist who participated in the riots told the _Washington Post_ that the attacks were done with “nuance and intention.”

The limousine set ablaze on K Street near 13th Street NW was attacked as an “explicit demonstration of our increasingly corporate state, which Trump’s presidency epitomizes,” said Tom Faison, 22, a District resident who works in film production and was part of the protests. He was not arrested but was outside court waiting for a friend who had been charged.​
Instead of hurting Trump and "our increasingly corporate state," these buffoons actually damaged the livelihood of a Muslim immigrant and fellow Trump critic who was trying to make it in America with his own company.According to the _Post_, 230 anti-Trump agitators are facing up to 10 years in jail for rioting. Unsurprisingly, most of the rioters were not from the D.C. area.

A GoFundMe page has been set up to help Ashraf, his employee, and his small limo company.

______________

_Solomon2 note:_ more on the Inauguration Day violence in D.C. here.


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## RabzonKhan

Fake slogan, fake hats.*

'It's made in Vietnam!' At inauguration, origin of red Trump hats shocks many
*
By Melissa Fares and Dustin Volz | WASHINGTON

One of the biggest cheers President Donald Trump received from supporters watching his inaugural address on Friday was his call to "buy American and hire American."

It was a moment rich in irony.

*Many of those supporters were sporting Trump's trademark red "Make America Great Again" baseball caps that were made in China, Vietnam and Bangladesh.*

Some were horrified when they discovered their Trump hats were foreign made.

Rob Walker, 44, who had driven to Washington from Georgia with his wife Abby, 36, had stopped at a truck stop on the way to buy a "Make America Great Again" cap.

"Oh God, I hope it's not made in China," Abby said, flipping the cap over to check. She looked at its label. "China! Don't tell anyone!"

The Trump hats available for purchase on Trump's official campaign website are made in the United States and cost between $25 and $30, according to the label inside those caps.

But they are also more expensive than the $20 versions sold by street vendors in Washington on Friday.

Joshua Rojas, 25 and Alyssa Young, 28, had traveled from Texas to watch the inauguration. Young was wearing a pink "Make America Great Again" hat.

"I loved it as soon as I saw it. I bought it right over there from one of the vendors for $20," she said.

So was it made in America?

"I don't know where it was made actually," Young said. "Let me check." She took off the hat to check the label. "Oh no," she cried. "It's made in Vietnam!"

Austin Araco, 22, from Arkansas, was attending his first inauguration and wearing a Trump hat. 

"I bought this hat the day he won the election," said Araco. "From his website, of course. I wanted to make sure I supported his fund. I don't want to buy a knock-off. I bought the hat for $30, shipping included."

Victoria Scott, 13 and her brother Andrew Scott, 12, each bought a "Make America Great Again" hat before the inauguration. Victoria's hat cost $25 - and was made in China. 

She did not seem to mind. 

Andrew then checked his hat. "Banglakesh?" he said after checking the tag. His father corrected him. "You mean Bangladesh."

Robert Morrison from Queens, New York, was carrying his "Make America Great Again" hat - bought from a street vendor for $20 - and wearing a New York Yankees cap. Both were made in China.

In his speech, Trump struck a fiery, protectionist tone.

"From this moment on, it's going to be America First," he said. "We will follow two simple rules: Buy American and hire American." *Link*



(Reporting by Melissa Fares and Dustin Volz, writing by Tim Reid, Editing by Jason Szep and Ross Colvin)

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## T-72M1

CNN,BBC and other mainstream media fake news about crowd size debunked:


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## T-72M1




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## The_Showstopper

*The State Department’s entire senior administrative team just resigned*



By Josh Rogin January 26 at 11:02 AM 
*Here's what happened at Rex Tillerson's rocky Senate confirmation hearing*
Embed Share 
Play Video5:14

Rex Tillerson, President-elect Trump's nominee for secretary of state, had a rocky first day facing members of the Senate during his confirmation hearing on Jan. 11 at the Capitol. (Video: Peter Stevenson/Photo: Melina Mara/The Washington Post/The Washington Post)

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson’s job running the State Department just got considerably more difficult. The entire senior level of management officials resigned Wednesday, part of an ongoing mass exodus of senior foreign service officers who don’t want to stick around for the Trump era.

Tillerson was actually inside the State Department’s headquarters in Foggy Bottom on Wednesday, taking meetings and getting the lay of the land. I reported Wednesday morning that the Trump team was narrowing its search for his No. 2, and that it was looking to replace the State Department’s long-serving undersecretary for management, Patrick Kennedy. Kennedy, who has been in that job for nine years, was actively involved in the transition and was angling to keep that job under Tillerson, three State Department officials told me.

Then suddenly on Wednesday afternoon, Kennedy and three of his top officials resigned unexpectedly, four State Department officials confirmed. Assistant Secretary of State for Administration Joyce Anne Barr, Assistant Secretary of State for Consular Affairs Michele Bond and Ambassador Gentry O. Smith, director of the Office of Foreign Missions, followed him out the door. All are career foreign service officers who have served under both Republican and Democratic administrations.

Opinions newsletter

Thought-provoking opinions and commentary, in your inbox daily.

_[In his first major TV interview as president, Trump is endlessly obsessed with his popularity]_

Kennedy will retire from the foreign service at the end of the month, officials said. The other officials could be given assignments elsewhere in the foreign service.

In addition, Assistant Secretary of State for Diplomatic Security Gregory Starr retired Jan. 20, and the director of the Bureau of Overseas Building Operations, Lydia Muniz, departed the same day. That amounts to a near-complete housecleaning of all the senior officials that deal with managing the State Department, its overseas posts and its people.

“It’s the single biggest simultaneous departure of institutional memory that anyone can remember, and that’s incredibly difficult to replicate,” said David Wade, who served as State Department chief of staff under Secretary of State John Kerry. “Department expertise in security, management, administrative and consular positions in particular are very difficult to replicate and particularly difficult to find in the private sector.”

*Trump jokes Tillerson finding Senate confirmation 'tougher than he thought'*
Embed Share 
Play Video1:31

Addressing a crowd of diplomats at a dinner event Jan. 17, Donald Trump joked that secretary of state nominee Rex Tillerson is finding his Senate confirmation tougher than anticipated. (AP)
Several senior foreign service officers in the State Department’s regional bureaus have also left their posts or resigned since the election. But the emptying of leadership in the management bureaus is more disruptive because those offices need to be led by people who know the department and have experience running its complicated bureaucracies. There’s no easy way to replace that via the private sector, said Wade.

“Diplomatic security, consular affairs, there’s just not a corollary that exists outside the department, and you can least afford a learning curve in these areas where issues can quickly become matters of life and death,” he said. “The muscle memory is critical. These retirements are a big loss. They leave a void. These are very difficult people to replace.”

Whether Kennedy left on his own volition or was pushed out by the incoming Trump team is a matter of dispute inside the department. Just days before he resigned, Kennedy was taking on more responsibility inside the department and working closely with the transition. His departure was a surprise to other State Department officials who were working with him.

_[‘They never saw this coming’: A Q&A with Kellyanne Conway]_

One senior State Department official who responded to my requests for comment said that all the officials had previously submitted their letters of resignation, as was required for all positions that are appointed by the president and that require confirmation by the Senate, known as PAS positions.

“No officer accepts a PAS position with the expectation that it is unlimited. And all officers understand that the President may choose to replace them at any time,” this official said. “These officers have served admirably and well. Their departure offers a moment to consider their accomplishments and thank them for their service. These are the patterns and rhythms of the career service.”

Ambassador Richard Boucher, who served as State Department spokesman for Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice, said that while there’s always a lot of turnover around the time a new administration takes office, traditionally senior officials work with the new team to see who should stay on in their roles and what other jobs might be available. But that’s not what happened this time.

The officials who manage the building and thousands of overseas diplomatic posts are charged with taking care of Americans overseas and protecting U.S. diplomats risking their lives abroad. The career foreign service officers are crucial to those functions as well as to implementing the new president’s agenda, whatever it may be, Boucher said.

_[What’s the method in Trump’s madness?]_

“You don’t run foreign policy by making statements, you run it with thousands of people working to implement programs every day,” Boucher said. “To undercut that is to undercut the institution.”

By itself, the sudden departure of the State Department’s entire senior management team is disruptive enough. But in the context of a president who railed against the U.S. foreign policy establishment during his campaign and secretary of state with no government experience, the vacancies are much more concerning.

Tillerson’s job No. 1 must be to find qualified and experienced career officials to manage the State Department’s vital offices. His second job should be to reach out to and reassure a State Department workforce that is panicked about what the Trump administration means for them.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-management-team-just-resigned/?tid=ss_fb-amp


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## RabzonKhan

*Donald Trump Falsely Claims He Never Campaigned in California, New York*
by Alex Griswold | 9:11 am, January 26th, 2017

In his Wednesday interview with ABC’s *David Muir* , President *Donald Trump* falsely claimed that he never campaigned in New York and then he never even set foot in California during the 2016 election.

“I would’ve won the popular vote if I was campaigning for the popular vote,” Trump said while defending his popular vote loss.* “I would’ve gone to California where I didn’t go at all. I would’ve gone to New York where I didn’t campaign at all.”*

Both claims are blatantly false. For one thing, Trump visited California in August, making stops in the Bay Area and Central Valley. But it’s particularly odd that he doesn’t remember his San Jose rally in June, given that it was marred with violent clashes between supporters and anti-Trump protesters.

Meanwhile, Trump didn’t just make campaign stops in New York, he frequently said he planned to _win_ New York. “Just so you understand, we are going to play New York. You know, we’re not just doing this for fun. We’re going to play New York,” Trump told the New York Conservative Party in September. Trump made more post-RNC campaign stops in New York than he did in swing states like New Hampshire and Wisconsin.

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## T-72M1




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## T-72M1

"do you trust Saudi Arabia ?"

he wouldn't say directly but he did add that 'certain countries are spending a lot of money radicalizing people and he doesn't like that' - or something to that extent. 

that is so good to hear ! I hope he dumps the saudis, takes all their oil and wipes their evil sallafist ideology of the face of the earth.  

also loved how he said he has no respect for "that character that just left" john brennan, who some say might have converted to wahhabi islam.

I'd say it's very likely that the joint ops with Russia vs the jihadis have already begun, that earlier Russian report was refuted by the US military only because he doesn't want to announce to FSA terror supporting countries like Turkey, saudi etc just yet.

The whole world is ready to _win_ with Trump is leading the charge vs ISIS etc. 






go Trump !


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## T-72M1

@LA se Karachi @RabzonKhan

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## Gothic

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2017/01/28/508178/US-politics-Donald-Trump-Jews


US President Donald Trump has given crucial roles to pro-Israel American Jews by appointing at least eleven influential members in his administration, reports say.

The president’s Jewish advisers, who are expected to play key roles in shaping the US policy during Trump’s four years in office, include his son-in law, Jared Kushner, who is serving as a senior adviser in his administration.

Jared Kushner: Senior adviser

Kushner, 36, who is married to Trump’s daughter, Ivanka, will work on the Middle East and Israel as well as partnerships with the private sector and free trade, without receiving a salary, according to _The New York Times._

Kushner also played an influential role in Trump’s presidential campaign, especially on Israel. He also worked on Trump’s speech to the annual conference of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee _(_AIPAC) in March 2016.

David Friedman: US ambassador to Israel 

Trump has appointed Friedman to serve as ambassador to Israel. Friedman has previously expressed support for Israeli’s illegal settlements, and funded construction in the occupied territories. He has even expressed doubt about the future of the two-state solution.

Friedman, who speaks Hebrew, has decided to live in his own personal apartment in al-Quds (Jerusalem) rather than residing in the Ambassador's Residence in Herzliya.

Stephen Miller: Senior adviser 

Miller, who has described himself as “a practicing Jew,” has played a key role in Trump’s campaign by writing his speeches for rallies. The thirty-one-year-old joined the Trump campaign in early 2016. 

Jason Greenblatt: Special representative 

Trump has appointed Greenblatt to work as special representative for international negotiations focusing on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as well as US-Cuba ties and American trade agreements with other countries.

Greenblatt has long been chief legal officer for the Trump Organization. He studied at West Bank Yeshiva University in the mid-1980s and did armed guard duty in the occupied territories.





President Donald Trump and his special representative Jason Greenblatt (File Photo)
Gary Cohn: Top Economic adviser 

Cohn is walking away from a career at Goldman Sachs to head the White House National Economic Council with a salary of $285 million. 

Steven Mnuchin: Treasury secretary 

Mnuchin, who worked as Trump’s national finance chairman during the campaign, serves as Treasury Secretary. Trump and Mnuchin have been friends for 15 years.

Boris Epshteyn: Special assistant 

Epshteyn, a Republican political strategist, works as special assistant to the president. He is in his early 30s and has appeared as a surrogate for Trump on TV during his presidential campaign. 

David Shulkin

Shulkin, 57, will lead the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), if confirmed by the Senate. He is the current undersecretary for health, and would be the first holdover appointment from the administration of former President Barack Obama.





David Shulkin
Carl Icahn: Special adviser 

Icahn, 80, a businessman and investor, is Trump’s special adviser on regulatory reform issues. He is working as a private citizen rather than a federal employee or special government employee. 

Reed Cordish 

Cordish, a longtime friend of Trump’s family, serves as assistant to the president for intra-governmental and technology initiatives.


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## Zibago

@Mugwop @Moonlight @The Eagle

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## Mugwop

T-72M1 said:


> "do you trust Saudi Arabia ?"
> 
> he wouldn't say directly but he did add that 'certain countries are spending a lot of money radicalizing people and he doesn't like that' - or something to that extent.
> 
> that is so good to hear ! I hope he dumps the saudis, takes all their oil and wipes their evil sallafist ideology of the face of the earth.
> 
> also loved how he said he has no respect for "that character that just left" john brennan, who some say might have converted to wahhabi islam.
> 
> I'd say it's very likely that the joint ops with Russia vs the jihadis have already begun, that earlier Russian report was refuted by the US military only because he doesn't want to announce to FSA terror supporting countries like Turkey, saudi etc just yet.
> 
> The whole world is ready to _win_ with Trump is leading the charge vs ISIS etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> go Trump !


@Saif al-Arab

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## Gothic

I wonder how Trump is going to confront those who enter america via canada


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## T-72M1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/825822320128303110

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/825823217025691648


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## Zibago

Mugwop said:


> @Saif al-Arab





Fenrir said:


> Trump has reached a majority disapproval rating faster then any president in since 1945 (when approval records first started) taking just 8 days to reach that dubious distinction:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/825781634330980352
> This was before the "Executive Order - Protecting the Nation from Terrorist Attacks by Foreign Nationals" - President Trump's immigration and travel ban.
> 
> President Trump's approval rating is at 41% versus 51% disapproval.
> 
> Given the reaction to the EO, it's expected to get worse still.
> 
> *...*
> 
> Persons with Green cards are likely to be given an exemption from the travel ban, but will require additional screening before gaining entry into the US:
> _
> The announcement came Sunday in __a brief statement__ from Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly, who wrote, “In applying the provisions of the president’s executive order, I hereby deem the entry of lawful permanent residents to be in the national interest.”
> _
> Good, and welcomed news for the 500,000 US Green Card holders.
> 
> http://www.vox.com/2017/1/29/14432788/trump-immigration-order-green-cards
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-greencard-idUSKBN15C0KX


He said he was all about winning no

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## Fenrir

For the first time in US history, the US Congress is proposing to limit the President's ability to order a nuclear strike without their approval.

Here's the bill:

https://lieu.house.gov/sites/lieu.house.gov/files/documents/LIEU_002_xml (115th Congress).pdf

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## truthseeker2010

Fenrir said:


> For the first time in US history, the US Congress is proposing to limit the President's ability to order a nuclear strike without their approval.
> 
> Here's the bill:
> 
> https://lieu.house.gov/sites/lieu.house.gov/files/documents/LIEU_002_xml (115th Congress).pdf



Given the current situation and the mental state of Trump, its very important........... does trump knows about MAD? if not he needs these lessons ASAP................


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## Solomon2

*
Outrage Dilution*
Posted January 26th, 2017 @ 8:24am in #Trump #Whenhub

I’m having a fun time watching President Trump flood the news cycle with so many stories and outrages that no one can keep up. Here’s how the math of persuasion works in this situation:

1 outrage out of 3 headlines in a week: Bad Persuasion

25 outrages out of 25 headlines in a week: Excellent Persuasion

At the moment there are so many outrages, executive orders, protests, and controversies that none of them can get enough oxygen in our brains. I can’t obsess about problem X because the rest of the alphabet is coming at me at the same time. 

When you encounter a situation that is working great except for one identifiable problem, you can focus on the problem and try to fix it. But if you have a dozen complaints at the same time, none of them looks special. The whole situation just looks confusing, and you don’t know where to start. So you wait and see what happens. Humans need contrast in order to make solid decisions that turn into action. Trump removed all of your contrast by providing multiple outrages of similar energy.

You’re probably seeing the best persuasion you will ever see from a new president. Instead of dribbling out one headline at a time, so the vultures and critics can focus their fire, Trump has flooded the playing field. You don’t know where to aim your outrage. He’s creating so many opportunities for disagreement that it’s mentally exhausting. Literally. He’s wearing down the critics, replacing their specific complaints with entire encyclopedias of complaints. And when Trump has created a hundred reasons to complain, do you know what impression will be left with the public?

_*He sure got a lot done.*_

Even if you don’t like it. 

In only a few days, Trump has made us question what-the-hell every other president was doing during their first weeks in office. Were they even trying? 

—

For a fun party trick, ask your most liberal friends if they think the Federal government should have a say in whether a woman gets an abortion or not. When they say the Federal government should stay out of that decision, inform them that President Trump shares their opinion. He doesn’t want the Federal government to be in the business of making health care choices for women. He prefers leaving that decision to the woman, her doctor, and state laws. 

—

Many of you have thought of different uses for WhenHub because those situations keep popping up in your life. It’s hard to avoid them.

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## Solomon2

Priceless: 

"I’m a white woman, I don’t get it...My job is to listen and be a voice and shut other white people down when they want to interrupt."​
- Sally Boynton Brown, the executive director of Idaho's Democratic Party: link


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## Nilgiri

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156540315831/be-careful-what-you-wish-for-especially-if-it-is

Scott Adams' Blog
Be Careful What You Wish For (especially if it is Hitler)
Posted January 29th, 2017 @ 11:50am in #Trump #immigration 

As a trained persuader, I’m seeing a dangerous situation forming that I assume is invisible to most of you. The setup is that during the presidential campaign Trump’s critics accused him of being Hitler(ish) and they were sure other citizens would see it too, thus preventing this alleged monster from taking office.

They were wrong. The alleged monster took office.

Now you have literally millions of citizens in the United States who were either right about Trump being the next Hitler, and we will see that behavior emerge from him soon, or they are complete morons. That’s a trigger for cognitive dissonance. The science says these frightened folks will start interpreting all they see as Hitler behavior no matter how ridiculous it might seem to the objective observer. And sure enough, we are seeing that.

To be fair, Trump made it easy this week with his temporary immigration ban. If you assume Trump is Hitler, that fits with your hypothesis. But of course it also fits the hypothesis that he’s just doing his job. We’re all seeing what we expect to see. 

But lately I get the feeling that Trump’s critics have evolved from expecting Trump to be Hitler to preferring it. Obviously they don’t prefer it in a conscious way. But the alternative to Trump becoming Hitler is that they have to live out the rest of their lives as confirmed morons. No one wants to be a confirmed moron. And certainly not after announcing their Trump opinions in public and demonstrating in the streets. It would be a total embarrassment for the anti-Trumpers to learn that Trump is just trying to do a good job for America. It’s a threat to their egos. A big one.

And this gets me to my point. When millions of Americans want the same thing, and they want it badly, the odds of it happening go way up. You can call it the power of positive thinking. It is also the principle behind affirmations. When humans focus on a desired future, events start to conspire to make it happen.

I’m not talking about any new-age magic. I’m talking about ordinary people doing ordinary things to turn Trump into an actual Hitler. For example, if protesters start getting violent, you could expect forceful reactions eventually. And that makes Trump look more like Hitler. I can think of dozens of ways the protesters could cause the thing they are trying to prevent. In other words, they can wish it into reality even though it is the very thing they are protesting.

In the 3rd dimension of persuasion, the protesters need to be proven right, and they will do whatever it takes to make that happen. So you might see the protesters inadvertently create the police state they fear.

If you are looking for the tells that this dangerous situation is developing, notice how excited/happy the Trump critics seem to be – while angry at the same time – that Trump’s immigration ban fits their belief system. If you see people who are simply afraid of Trump, they are probably harmless. But the people who are excited about any Hitler-analogy-behavior by Trump might be leading the country to a police state without knowing it.

So watch for that.


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## Nilgiri

Put very succinctly.

@Desert Fox

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## T-72M1

heh, Milo triggers a leftist riot, again.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-milo-yiannopoulos-berkeley-20170201-story.html

snowflakes can't handle the truth.

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## Nilgiri

Democrat party put everything into Hillary (nefariously sidelining Bernie, hoping no one would find out and then blaming the Russians when that oops bottle was spilled)

Now they are in a desperate state of affairs, lieing directly to people's directly faces and thinking its business as usual:






The democrat party is not admitting the honest real mistake they made in choosing Hillary (much less taking corrective action to rectify...starting with an apology) and then cheating to get her past Bernie....so things are not going to look good for them and their staunch voter base if they do not seriously shape up, reform and bring their A game instead of crawling further into what defeated them badly on nov 8th.


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## kamrananvaar

It's hard to separate Donald Trump's businesses from his politics. As a result, some are calling for a boycott of any company that sell Trump products.


Shannon Coulter, a brand and digital strategist, started the #GrabYourWallet hashtag in October following the publication of a leaked tape that showed Trump making lewd comments about women. Coulter used the hashtag to encourage people who were offended by Trump's language and actions to boycott companies doing business with his family.

In the months since the election, she and other anti-Trump Twitter users have circulated a spreadsheet with retailers that do business with the Trump family. 

The list includes Trump Hotels and other Trump Organization businesses on its "consider boycotting" list. Yuengling Beer, whose founder endorsed Trump, and The Honest Company, which has advertised on Celebrity Apprentice," are also included.

A few retailers have dropped Trump brands, including Shoes.com and Zulily since the movement started. Others have been added to the list as Coulter and others collect more info. 

As of Monday, Grab Your Wallet's list of brands that carry Trump products included 33 retailers, including Amazon, Walmart, and Bloomingdales.

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-boycott-retailers-sell-trump-products-2017-1/#6pm-1


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## Nilgiri

Good job democrats, well done








T-72M1 said:


> heh, Milo triggers a leftist riot, again.
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-milo-yiannopoulos-berkeley-20170201-story.html
> 
> snowflakes can't handle the truth.



Actually this has happened a few times already to Milo. He's triggered them all big league. I'm loving it, since true colours are being exposed left right and centre.

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## T-72M1

Nilgiri said:


> Actually this has happened a few times already to Milo. He's triggered them all big league. I'm loving it, since true colours are being exposed left right and centre.


yep, they're losing the battle of ideas and they're going to lose the cultural war. wtf kind of losers can't tolerate a differing opinion, fascist ones maybe ? which would make sense with all the hammer and sickle flags and their faces covered etc.

good job, Milo.. hope he keeps sticking it to them.

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## LA se Karachi

T-72M1 said:


> yep, they're losing the battle of ideas and they're going to lose the cultural war. wtf kind of losers can't tolerate a differing opinion, fascist ones maybe ? which would make sense with all the hammer and sickle flags and their faces covered etc.
> 
> good job, Milo.. hope he keeps sticking it to them.




Sorry, but the left is winning the cultural "war"---if you want to call it that. Gay rights, acceptance of other religions, acceptance of other ethic groups and immigrants, multiculturalism, strict separation of church and state, etc. are increasingly supported by the public these days.

In any case, young people as whole in this country support these and other things by a wide margin (polls and exit polls show that). Even many young Republicans do as well. Live and let live is the motto most of us have when it comes to social issues.

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## T-72M1

LA se Karachi said:


> Sorry, but the left is winning the cultural "war"---if you want to call it that. Gay rights, acceptance of other religions, acceptance of other ethic groups and immigrants, multiculturalism, strict separation of church and state, etc. are increasingly supported by the public these days.
> 
> In any case, young people as whole in this country support these and other things by a wide margin (polls and exit polls show that). Even many young Republicans do as well. Live and let live is the motto most of us have when it comes to social issues.


Milo is gay, and he loves black... men. 

Here's your president:






nobody's calling for a Christian theocratic state as far as I'm aware. 

why can't these Berkley rioters tolerate a differing opinion ?

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## KAL-EL

T-72M1 said:


> why can't these Berkley rioters tolerate a differing opinion ?



Really sad to see that many college campuses have become completely susceptible to groupthink and extremely intolerant if one dares to express differing ideological opinions.

The answer to free speech is more free speech. not less..

What are these self-entitled brats going to do when they get out into the real world and work for various companies where there will be no "safe spaces"

Surrounding yourself in an insulated echo chamber will not help you in the real world.

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## LA se Karachi

T-72M1 said:


> Milo is gay, and he loves black... men.
> 
> Here's your president:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nobody's calling for a Christian theocratic state as far as I'm aware.
> 
> why can't these Berkley rioters tolerate a differing opinion ?




Well, I was talking about the "culture war" in general.

People have a right to protest though, so long as they do it peacefully. I really don't care one way or another about this "incident" at Berkeley.

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## T-72M1

LA se Karachi said:


> Well, I was talking about the "culture war" in general.
> 
> People have a right to protest though, so long as they do it peacefully. I really don't care one way or another about this "incident" at Berkeley.


but it _is_ a culture war when they violently suppress speakers like Milo who offer a different perspective on cultural issues, which is what the guy does. Milo is a cultural critic, and these lefty students are afraid that his ideas might resonate with people which is why they want to shut down his free speech. It's like they have nothing left to counter what the guy is saying but cry "racist/sexist" (but not homophobe, can't do that here lol) and riot.


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## LA se Karachi

T-72M1 said:


> but it _is_ a culture war when they violently suppress speakers like Milo who offer a different perspective on cultural issues, which is what the guy does.




That's not what most people refer to as the "culture war".



T-72M1 said:


> Milo is a cultural critic, and these lefty students are afraid that his ideas might resonate with people which is why they want to shut down his free speech.




Um no, they simply hate the derogatory things he has to say. I can assure you that there are few colleges of repute where his "ideas" would resonate.



T-72M1 said:


> It's like they have nothing left to counter what the guy is saying but cry "racist/sexist"




He has said quite a few terrible things over the years. He's not someone who just simply holds a "conservative" viewpoint. Personally, I really don't care about him one way or another. He's a nobody.



T-72M1 said:


> (but not homophobe, can't do that here lol)




Actually, he is in fact a homophobe, even though he is gay. He fights against gay rights and says they're bad for the human race, and writes articles titled this:

_"Gay Rights Have Made Us Dumber, It’s Time to Get Back in the Closet"_



T-72M1 said:


> and riot




Not every college or liberal student in it riots when he shows up. The vast majority of students go about their day without any issue.
_
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------_

Please keep the title of this thread in mind. This "incident" at Berkeley has little to do with US politics itself. Start a new thread, if you want. 

I'll just leave it there. I have no interest in discussing this further. I can't believe I've spent this much time talking about this Milo loser.

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## T-72M1

LA se Karachi said:


> I'll just leave it there. I have no interest in discussing this further. I can't believe I've spent this much time talking about this Milo loser.


students protesting Milo and shutting down his events isn't a new thing, it's happened quite a few times over the past year and I wouldn't have cared too much about it either but this one made global news... and will only help get his name, and word, out, more people are going to look him up and buy his book now, another self goal by violent American leftists.






lol


----------



## 艹艹艹

A speech by conservative firebrand and British writer Milo Yiannopoulos was canceled at UC Berkeley on Wednesday amid violent protests that sparked a fire in a campus plaza.

University officials called off the event about two hours before Yiannopoulos was to speak at the student union, where more than 1,500 people had gathered outside. Some hurled metal barricades and others smashed windows at the student union.

“This is not a proud night for this campus, the home of the free speech movement,” said Dan Mogulof, a Berkeley spokesman. He noted that the vandalism interfered with the ability of the Berkeley College Republicans — who hosted Yiannopoulos — to exercise their 1st Amendment rights.

Yiannopoulos, 32, writes for Breitbart News — a popular website among the far right — and he is an avowed supporter of President Trump. He’s also a flamboyant provocateur who has been denounced for propagating racism, misogyny and anti-Islam views, but he styles himself a champion of free speech.

This summer, he gained notoriety for encouraging a barrage of harassment against “Ghostbusters” actress Leslie Jones, which prompted Twitter to ban him from the social media platform.

Controversy, unrest and, occasionally, violence has followed his speaking tour at colleges across the U.S., for which Berkeley was to be the final event. Last month, a man was shot outside a University of Washington hall where Yiannopoulos was scheduled to speak.





























Slide 1 of 11: A rioter smashes a window at a Mechanics Bank branch during a protest against Breitbart News editor Milo Yiannopoulos in Berkeley, California, USA, 01 February 2017. Hundreds of protesters rallied against Yiannopoulos, forcing the cancellation of his speech at UC Berkeley, eventually vandalizing dozens of businesses and smashing dozens of storefront windows. University police locked down all buildings after the protests turned violent.
1/11 SLIDES© Noah Berger/EPA/Rex/Shutterstock
A rioter smashes a window at a Mechanics Bank branch during a protest against Breitbart News editor Milo Yiannopoulos in Berkeley, California, Feb 1, 2017. Hundreds of protesters rallied against Yiannopoulos, forcing the cancellation of his speech at UC Berkeley, eventually vandalizing dozens of businesses and smashing dozens of storefront windows. University police locked down all buildings after the protests turned violent.



Wednesday’s decision by Berkeley officials is the second time in two weeks that rowdy protests have forced the cancellation of one of his lectures. UC Davis also canceled one of his speeches last month.

At Berkeley, police clashed with protesters, and much of the university was placed on lockdown. Campus police repeatedly ordered protesters to leave the area, threatening the crowd with arrest. Most refused to leave.

At one point, some toppled a generator that was powering a flood light, and the machinery caught fire in the plaza outside the student union. The flames made for dramatic images, and TV helicopters captured the on-campus blaze.

On his Facebook page, Yiannopoulos said that “violent left-wing protesters” had broken into a building’s ground floor, ripped down barricades and thrown rocks.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/vi...r-at-uc-berkeley/ar-AAmwj5R?OCID=ansmsnnews11

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## RabzonKhan

As we all know, few days ago, Pres Trump issued an executive order that banned travel into the United States citizen from seven majority Muslim countries for three months (Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen).

In my opinion, Trump’s ban is totally ridiculous and counterproductive, it does not improve our security, in fact, it played right into the hands of the religious terrorist (ISIS, AQ, Taliban), remember, the terrorists want us to turn this into a war of the West against Islam, they want to start a holy war between 1.7 billion Muslims and the West, particularly US, now, we don’t want to start an unnecessary war with all of them, because that will be a total disaster, our focus should be mainly on the ISIS, AQ, Taliban and other terrorist, and as a smart strategy, we should let the Muslim countries fight the terrorist, after all, it’s their war too, in fact, they are affected more than us, we can provide them financial, intelligence and aerial warfare help.

Now one can understand Trump administration’s fear about having people come in and commit terrorist acts, but that can be accomplished in a rational way, simply put, anyone who wants to come to the United States must go through “extreme vetting” (as Trump likes to call it), but banning entire countries is absolutely counterproductive and unnecessary, and as I said, it plays right into the hand of our enemies and badly tarnish our image abroad, or, perhaps tarnish it even more.

And, are the citizen of the seven countries really that dangerous as Trump and his supporters want us to believe, well, according to the New America org: “None of the deadly attackers since 9/11 emigrated or came from a family that emigrated from one of these countries nor were any of the 9/11 attackers from the listed countries.” *Link*

Now, one wonders what was the real agenda?

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## T-72M1




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## T-72M1




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## Rashid Mahmood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/827399118326620162


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## T-72M1

Rashid Mahmood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/827399118326620162


so ? everyone knew he was in showbiz/entertainment.










Linda McMahon is heading the small businesses committee or something for Trump now.


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## Sanchez

These are all forplays before Trump gang takes on China. A war or military conflict is imminent between China and the US on SCS/ECS not only based on the comments of hawkish Trump's assistants but also deduced from a famous Chinese prophet book published in the 7th century. It postulated that China would win over the West aggression once for all.


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## RabzonKhan

Never a dull moment, President Trump's telephone conversation with Australian PM Malcolm Turnbull reportedly didn't end well last weekend.






*John McCain, Other Senators Call Australia’s Ambassador To Clean Up Trump’s Mess*

*How often will this happen over the next four years?*

WASHINGTON ― Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) called Australia’s ambassador to the United States Thursday morning to do damage control after President Donald Trump’s disastrous recent call with the country’s prime minister. 

McCain said he expressed his “unwavering support for the U.S.-Australia alliance” in the call with Ambassador Joe Hockey. 

“I asked Ambassador Hockey to convey to the people of Australia that their American brothers and sisters value our historic alliance, honor the sacrifice of the Australians who have served and are serving by our side, and remain committed to the safer, freer, and better world that Australia does far more than its fair share to protect and promote,” the senator said in a statement.

The reason McCain felt it necessary to seemingly state the obvious ― that the United States and Australia are strong allies ― is that Trump reportedly berated Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull during a call Saturday. *Read more*

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## F-22Raptor

The Department of Homeland Security said Saturday it won't force airlines to block foreigners with visas from boarding planes into the U.S. under President Donald Trump's travel ban.

The move comes as the State Department also announced it has reversed the cancellation of visas under Trump's executive order, which bars people from seven predominantly Muslim nations from traveling into America. The State Department had said up to 60,000 foreigners had their visas "provisionally revoked" since the order went into effect a week ago.

The departments' decisions essentially back up a federal judge who on Friday halted Trump's executive order.

"Those individuals with visas that were not physically cancelled may now travel if the visa is otherwise valid," the State Department said, adding that it is working with the Department of Homeland Security to enforce the move.

On Saturday, normal air service resumed following the judge's decision, which Trump blasted in a series of tweets as "ridiculous."

The order by U.S. District Court Senior Judge James L. Robart means that holders of U.S. visas or green cards allowing them to live and work in the U.S. can fly into the country as before. Trump's order affected citizens of Sudan, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Iran, Iraq and Yemen.

Qatar Airways issued a statement saying that, "as directed by the U.S. Customs and Border Protection," nationals of the seven affected countries and all refugees presenting a valid U.S. visa or green card allowing them to work in the U.S. would be permitted to travel to the United States.

Egyptair said the same thing.

"There is no stopping any passenger if they have a visa," Egyptair's manager for flights to New York, Hossam Hussein, told NBC by phone. He said people from any nation could travel to the U.S.

Lufthansa, too, said passengers previously blocked were now free to fly to the U.S.

Early Saturday, the International Air Transport Association sent a note to all airlines confirming that the ban, for the moment, was completely inoperative. Visas that were rescinded have now been reinstated, the note said. And business was back to the way it was before Trump issued his executive order.

"It is as if the Executive Order never existed," the note said.

The Department of Homeland Security issued a statement saying it had "suspended any and all actions" regarding the affected sections of the executive order. "DHS personnel will resume inspection of travelers in accordance with standard policy and procedure."

The statement said the Department of Justice intended to file an emergency legal action to overturn the stay.

"The Order is intended to protect the homeland and the American people, and the President has no higher duty and responsibility than to do so," the statement said.

Trump himself expressed his dismay at the court ruling in a series of tweets on Saturday morning, saying "the opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned!"

On Saturday morning, people began immediately to resume efforts to fly to the U.S.

"I heard about the judge's ruling and I immediately got on a plane to Frankfurt to see if we got a connecting flight to Boston," said Saira Rafiei who is Iranian and heard about the news while she was in Tehran.

NBC News spoke to her as she waited for a plane in Frankfurt.

The temporary restraining order applies nationwide, Washington state Attorney General Bob Ferguson's office said.

"The Constitution prevailed today," Ferguson said in a statement. "No one is above the law — not even the President."

The restraining order will be in effect until Robart considers a legal challenge filed by the U.S. attorney general, Ferguson's office said.

The White House press secretary said the administration would seek an emergency stay at the earliest possible time, and initially called the judge's action an "outrageous order." An updated statement issued a short time later dropped the term "outrageous."

"The president's order is intended to protect the homeland and he has the constitutional authority and responsibility to protect the American people," both statements said.

The order, and its swift and seemingly unplanned implementation had created chaos in airports around the U.S. with people detained and families separated.

Among those reported temporarily detained were an Iraqi refugee who worked with the U.S. government, green card holders, students and professors. Protests erupted at several large airports across the country after Trump signed the order.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-banned-countries-citizens-able-board-n716801

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## WiderMan

About damn time, travel ban was a catastrophic move that betrayed Moral and American values.


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## RabzonKhan

This heartbreaking story just shows how ridiculous Trump’s travel ban was. A four-month-old Iranian baby will now be allowed into the US for life-saving heart surgery, most probably after a federal judge in Seattle ordered a halt to Trump’s controversial travel ban. She was all set to have that surgery at a hospital (OSHU) in Portland, OR, but it was canceled after Trump announced his executive order banning travel to the US by people from seven majority Muslim countries.

Is she a terrorist Mr. President? 








More on the story:

*Iranian baby caught in travel ban will get surgery in US, hospital says*

By Azadeh Ansari, Joe Sutton and Marlena Baldacci, CNN February 4, 2017

(CNN)An Iranian baby with a serious heart defect will soon get the medical attention she needs in the United States.

The girl and her family -- caught up in President Donald Trump's immigration ban -- have received an all-clear to enter the United States for critical surgery, officials at the Oregon Health & Science University's Doernbecher Children's Hospital said.
Fatemeh Reshad and her parents are expected to arrive in the United States in a few days, the Portland hospital said Saturday.
They initially had been scheduled to meet Sunday with doctors in Portland but had been barred from traveling from Tehran, Fatemeh's uncle, Samad Teghizadeh, told CNN.
Several congressional Democrats released a letter Friday evening asking Secretary of State Rex Tillerson to grant a waiver for the child and her parents.
The delay came after Trump's executive order put an abrupt stop on travel to the United States for citizens of seven Muslim-majority countries, including Iran. A federal judge on Friday temporarily stopped the order. *Read more*

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## LA se Karachi



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## T-72M1

lel


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## Naheed Janjua

For someone who has been in favour of progressive politics all my life, it may come as a surprise that I support the shakeup of the establishment initiated by President Donald J. Trump. 

Representative democracy is failing worldwide mainly because of entrenched status-quo. Elected representatives of the people come to the corridors of power with high hopes, but find themselves cornered and helpless against the forces of stagnation unleashed by the establishment.

read more: Time to give Donald Trump a pat on the back!


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## Providence

? what is this all about ?


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## asad71

*Bannon has long yearned for a civilizational conflict between the West and the Muslim world. Now he may get it*
February 5, 2017 | Filed under: News | Posted by: The Bangladesh Chronicle
Steve Bannon’s war with Islam: Trump may not even understand his adviser’s apocalyptic vision

*Bannon has long yearned for a civilizational conflict between the West and the Muslim world. Now he may get it*
Jalal Baig



(Credit: Getty/Win McNamee/AP/Evan Vucci/Muhamed Huwais)
There seems to be considerable urgency right now to enshrine Donald Trump’s Islamophobia into law. Talk of an immigration ban, a Muslim registry and even internment camps once sounded like the machinations of a spray-tanned salesman looking to indulge the electorate’s need for a good villain narrative. Amid an atmosphere of overwhelming chaos, the early days of Trump’s reign have made clear, however, that Islam is Public Enemy No. 1 and serves as the centerpiece of Steve Bannon’s ethno-nationalist agenda. (Trump’s ban on immigration and travel from certain Muslim-majority nations is currently on hold, thanks to a Friday federal court order. That does nothing to resolve the larger questions.)

Bannon called Trump “a blunt instrument for us” in an interview last summer with Vanity Fair. He added, “I don’t know whether he really gets it or not.” That the former Breitbart executive editor would have an outsized role in a Trump administration should have been evident long ago. In Trump, Bannon found a petulant Twitterphile and a manipulable tool who has minimal interest in policymaking and little insight into his own limitations. As he sought an upheaval to remake an America rife with perceived threats, Trump was, as Lawrence Douglas wrote, “the proper vehicle to carry the fight forward.”

For Bannon, the fight is against Islam. There are echoes of Samuel Huntington’s 1993 essay in Foreign Affairs called “The Clash of Civilizations?” Huntington wrote of a world that had been divided along “fault lines” such as culture, which could spur conflict between Islamic civilization and the West. Bannon speaks of the current war with “jihadist Islamic fascism” in apocalyptic terms and sees it as the latest iteration, as Uri Friedman wrote, “of an existential, centuries old-struggle between the Judeo-Christian West and the Islamic world.”

Further, Muslim immigration gnaws at Trump’s foremost consigliere. He evinces ignorance in his ideas about sharia, yet uses the term frequently when discussing Muslim immigrants, who “are not people with thousands of years of democracy in their DNA.” Though roughly 100,000 Muslims have entered the United States in each of the last few years, he claimed in December 2015 that 1 million would be entering in each of the next two years.

These statements were a prelude to Trump’s “Muslim ban,” an executive order that was signed shortly after inauguration (and is now on hold, at least for the moment). Its swift enactment was the first sign that Bannon’s war on Islam had begun. He hastily crafted the ban without regard for the Department of Homeland Security — or for that matter the State, Defense and Justice departments. Soon court orders were being defied and acting attorney general Sally Yates was fired for her refusal to enforce Bannon’s opening salvo. Christian refugees would be given priority over others to enter the country, as an individual’s religious identity is apparently the only indicator of his or her suffering.

Bannon’s temerity was on full display as he sought to engineer the civilizational crisis that he has clearly relished for years. His consolidation of power was complete when Trump took the unprecedented step of offering Bannon — a man with no experience or background in national security, foreign policy or the military — a permanent seat on the National Security Council. (Yes, Bannon was once a Navy officer. He left the service in 1983.) Now the man who admires darkness, Satan and Darth Vader will influence major decisions of war and peace.

All this unrestrained jingoism risks causing a conflagration at a time of isolated fires that are being managed and contained adequately. As Robin Wright of the New Yorker noted, the Obama administration “has turned the tide on jihadism over the past two years. The two premier movements — the Islamic State and Al Qaeda — are both on the defensive.” In the United States, attacks by Muslims were responsible for only one-third of 1 percent of all murders in 2016.

Even Bernard Lewis, who fathered the phrase “clash of civilizations” when he wrote of the Arab world’s need to expunge Islam from its politics, cautioned against an exaggerated response to the Judeo-Christian world’s ancient rival. “It is crucially important,” he noted, “that we on our side should not be provoked into an equally historic but equally irrational reaction against that rival.”

But Bannon desires carnage.

Through the immigration ban and its associated rhetoric, jihadists and at least seven Muslim-majority countries have been given notice of the Trump administration’s intentions. This is a not a U.S. government that will call Islam a religion of peace, as George W. Bush did. Or one that will be reluctant to use the term “Islamic” to prevent giving groups like ISIS legitimacy, as Barack Obama did.

Yet ISIS is emboldened now because Bannon’s undaunted pursuit of a clash will help its goal to “eliminate the gray zone” of coexistence between Muslims residing in the West and their non-Muslim neighbors. ISIS hopes that Bannon’s stark intentions will make Muslims in the West disillusioned about its acceptance and tolerance, boosting recruitment and sympathy for their deranged cause. As Abu Omar Khorasani, a senior Islamic State commander in Afghanistan, said, “This guy [Trump] is a complete maniac. His utter hate towards Muslims will make our job much easier because we can recruit thousands.”

In addition, as Dan Byman, a staff member of the 9/11 commission, noted, Muslims in the United States may become more disenchanted “and thus easier to recruit or inspire to be lone wolves. In addition, it may make communities feel they are suspect and decrease vital cooperation with law enforcement. The hostile rhetoric that goes with these bans makes all this more likely.”

Source: Salon

http://bangladeshchronicle.net/2017...-west-and-the-muslim-world-now-he-may-get-it/


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## T-72M1

"We're not so innocent.. made a lot of mistakes, a lot of people were killed"

He's talking about the countless innocents killed in the US' senseless wars, not just their soldiers. Honest and straightforward, admitting mistakes, expressing sorrow, and this was his rhetoric all through the campaign. Real liberals should love this, real liberals should have been going wild when he said he doesn't want a 4 billion air force one program, imagine if crazy Bernie had pulled that move after being elected, they'd have gone nuts. lol

Real liberals would have been elated when he, as the leader of the right wing party in the US, waved the LGBT flag at the republican convention.

Donald Trump wants (to try for) peace with Russia and to stop supporting jihadist groups against them in proxy wars overseas.. in normal circumstances that sounds like something that might give the hippie peaceniks a boner.. but no, because Donald Trump is Hitler.  

There's a lot to like about Donald Trump, spl on the really big issues. He'll also need a minimum of 8 years to push and implement his agenda, I don't think we're going to see him rush into any big wars with Iran or China etc in his first term, unless they (or anyone else) give him good reason to.

Personally, I'd take an honest brash potty-mouth over a slimy charmer like Obama eleven times out of ten. 







@LA se Karachi @RabzonKhan


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## asad71

Fol is an excellent documentary which would help in understanding the Trump enigma. No one has any real idea where Trump is coming from, though he is certain to impact all of our lives. We only have a very speculative image of him. After watching this, you will have a very good idea of who he is, and how he is likely to act in various situations. And being able to predict how he will act may not make you feel very comfortable, but at least you will not feel like a boxer with a blind-fold in the ring with Donald Trump.






Attachments area
Preview YouTube video FRONTLINE - President Trump (PBS) (2017)




FRONTLINE - President Trump (PBS) (2017)


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## Nilgiri




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## LA se Karachi

February 7, 2017 -* American Voters Oppose Trump Immigration Ban*, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Big Gender Gap As Voters Disapprove Of Trump 
*

American voters oppose 51 - 46 percent President Donald Trump's order suspending for 90 days all travel to the U.S. from seven nations*, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today. 

*Voters oppose 60 - 37 percent President Trump's order suspending immigration of all refugees from any nation to the U.S. for 120 days*, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University Poll finds. 

*Voters also oppose 70 - 26 percent Trump's order suspending indefinitely all immigration of Syrian refugees to the U.S. *

Trump's executive order on immigration will make the nation more safe, 38 percent of voters say, while 39 percent say it will make the U.S. less safe and 21 percent say the order won't affect safety. 

The executive order on immigration is intended to be a ban on Muslims, voters say 51 - 45 percent. Mainstream Islam is a peaceful religion, 58 percent of American voters say, while 26 percent say Islam encourages violence. 

"Homegrown jihadists" pose the greater terrorist threat to the U.S., 56 percent of voters say, while 17 percent say "radicalized foreign visitors" are a greater threat and 14 percent say "terrorists hiding among Syrian refugees" are a greater threat. 

"Message to President Donald Trump: 'Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free' still has profound resonance with Americans," said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll. 

"Significant pushback on immigration tells the president that many voters are not on board with a ban on refugees and that voters are strongly opposed to holding back those most threatened, Syrian refugees." 

*American voters oppose 50 - 44 percent "suspending immigration from 'terror prone' regions, even if it means turning away refugees..." This reverses the findings of a Quinnipiac University poll conducted January 5 - 9, before President Trump was inaugurated, showing voters supported this measure 48 - 42 percent. *

A total of 70 percent of American voters say it is "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that there will be a terrorist attack in the U.S. with a large loss of life. 

President Trump's Approval Rating 

*American voters give President Trump a slightly negative 42 - 51 percent job approval rating*, compared to his negative 36 - 44 percent job approval in a January 26 survey by the independent Quinnipiac University. Today, men approve 50 - 43 percent, while women disapprove 58 - 35 percent. 

*Trump gets a negative 43 - 52 percent favorability rating*, while Vice President Mike Pence gets a positive 43 - 39 percent favorability. 

Looking at Trump's personal qualities, American voters say:

* 54 - 42 percent that he is not honest;*
* 50 - 47 percent that he does not have good leadership skills;*
* 52 - 45 percent that he does not care about average Americans;*
* 60 - 35 percent that he is not level-headed;*
* 70 - 26 percent that he is a strong person;*
* 65 - 31 percent that he is intelligent;*
* 58 - 38 percent that he does not share their values. *
*Donald Trump will do more to divide the country, rather than unite the nation, voters say 58 - 37 percent. * *He will mostly bring the right kind of change, 41 percent of voters say, while 44 percent say he will bring the wrong kind of change.* 

*Voters approve 44 - 41 percent of the way Trump is handling the economy*. Looking at his handling of other issues, voters:

*Disapprove 56 - 38 percent of the way he is handling foreign policy;*
* 44 percent approve of his handling of terrorism, as 49 percent disapprove;*
* Disapprove 56 - 41 percent of the way he is handling immigration issues. *

From February 2 - 6, Quinnipiac University surveyed 1,155 voters nationwide with a margin of error of +/- 2.9 percentage points. Live interviewers call landlines and cell phones. 

The Quinnipiac University Poll, directed by Douglas Schwartz, Ph.D., conducts public opinion surveys in Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Florida, Ohio, Virginia, Iowa, Colorado and the nation as a public service and for research. 

Visit poll.qu.edu or www.facebook.com/quinnipiacpoll 

Call (203) 582-5201, or follow us on Twitter @QuinnipiacPoll.

_https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2427_

@RabzonKhan

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## VCheng



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## VCheng

"You've got to give the guy credit. He gets a lot of stuff undone." - Stephen Colbert, The Late Show.


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## Nilgiri

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> "You've got to give the guy credit. He gets a lot of stuff undone." - Stephen Colbert, The Late Show.



Yeah like liberal tear glands 

WTF LOL:


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## T-72M1

Nilgiri said:


> Yeah like liberal tear glands
> 
> WTF LOL:


and Trump and Putin invaded Korea

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Yeah like liberal tear glands
> 
> WTF LOL:



Perhaps the best part of Trump's win is that the complacency of the American people in taking their freedoms for granted has been shaken a little bit. Their increasing involvement in the political processes to ensure that their liberties and protections remain sacrosanct will be good for the country in the long run.


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## Solomon2

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Perhaps the best part of Trump's win is that the complacency of the American people in taking their freedoms for granted has been shaken a little bit. Their increasing involvement in the political processes to ensure that their liberties and protections remain sacrosanct will be good for the country in the long run.


The "waking up" that's taking place appears to be pushing people to become Trump supporters. The "temporary suspension" of Trump's travel ban was issued without an expiration date and without citing supporting law, procedure, or the Constitution. Then on appeal the famously left-leaning Ninth Circuit judges repeatedly grilled the gov't lawyer not about the order, but about straw man issues that aren't part of it. All these reinforce Trump's contention that the courts have been out-of-control, making laws and policy that are properly in the scope of the legislature and executive branch.


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## VCheng

Solomon2 said:


> The "waking up" that's taking place appears to be pushing people to become Trump supporters. The "temporary suspension" of Trump's travel ban was issued without an expiration date and without citing supporting law, procedure, or the Constitution. Then on appeal the famously left-leaning Ninth Circuit judges repeatedly grilled the gov't lawyer not about the order, but about straw man issues that aren't part of it. All these reinforce Trump's contention that the courts have been out-of-control, making laws and policy that are properly in the scope of the legislature and executive branch.



Let us see what the Circuit Court decides by tomorrow, and where the case goes next. It is a long process to follow, still.


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## Nilgiri

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Perhaps the best part of Trump's win is that the complacency of the American people in taking their freedoms for granted has been shaken a little bit. Their increasing involvement in the political processes to ensure that their liberties and protections remain sacrosanct will be good for the country in the long run.



Yeah enough people are realising a lot now through what was fed to them in the media about trump and what would happen in the unthinkable situation should he win in the impossible world. 

When a much larger critical mass truly realise this dissonance (and it is inevitable given Trump has 4 years with what looks like a democrat party gettysburg in just 2 years time), there will actually be genuine dialogue about Trump....rather than catchword reactionary behaviour that is going to be dominant in the short term.

It will also be accelerated by the actions (not just theory) of antifa and the other extreme SJW groups (who have overtly become the very things they claim to be against)...and the best part is they dont seem to realise that at all.



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Let us see what the Circuit Court decides by tomorrow, and where the case goes next. It is a long process to follow, still.



It will be SCOTUS 99%....and the ban will be upheld there. The USC 1182 is very crystal clear on it:

(f)Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President

_Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline._

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182

Either antony kennedy will quash the stay himself or the whole board will do so (probably unanimously).


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Yeah enough people are realising a lot now through what was fed to them in the media about trump and what would happen in the unthinkable situation should he win in the impossible world.
> 
> When a much larger critical mass truly realise this dissonance (and it is inevitable given Trump has 4 years with what looks like a democrat party gettysburg in just 2 years time), there will actually be genuine dialogue about Trump....rather than catchword reactionary behaviour that is going to be dominant in the short term.
> 
> It will also be accelerated by the actions (not just theory) of antifa and the other extreme SJW groups (who have overtly become the very things they claim to be against)...and the best part is they dont seem to realise that at all.
> 
> 
> 
> It will be SCOTUS 99%....and the ban will be upheld there. The USC 1182 is very crystal clear on it:
> 
> (f)Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
> 
> _Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline._
> 
> https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182
> 
> Either antony kennedy will quash the stay himself or the whole board will do so (probably unanimously).



Let the case get up to SCOTUS first, and then let's see what is decided there.


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## Nilgiri

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Let the case get up to SCOTUS first, and then let's see what is decided there.



Given this was pretty much a stunt for judge shopping, like I said, its going to go to SCOTUS 99% of the time (1% it gets overturned in the 9th given I dont believe in absolutes) where it is resolved....and there can be only one ruling there because not every liberal judge there can ignore USC 1182 which has tons of precedent in action (incl obama) and decide to legislate from the bench...and all it takes is one (given the current 50 50 split) and thats only if Kennedy lets it get to that.

9th circuit is easily the most pro-legislation from bench, anti-actual merit based judging court out there....one only needs to look at their overturn rate....and also listen in to what was actually deliberated over the phone in the ongoing hearing (quite ridiculous waffle external to the defined purview of a judge in so many parts). The DOJ lawyer did not do a good job either (though probably wouldn't have mattered given its the 9th circuit).

Democrats knew what they are doing (as desperate and ultimately counter-productive that it will be given Trump only gets aggravated more in response e.g. Mexico wall 10 feet higher attitude). Its the same policy they are employing in the senate to slow down confirmations and such. It seems this is the policy they have chosen instead of actually concisely targetting Trump's economic and security agenda specifics in genuine factual debate (but that would mean admitting they were wrong about the degree of the overall negative aura they have projected around Trump..and retreating in a big way from that....which I guess is sadly anathema to political parties in general). They are betting on the long term polarisation on aiding them and hoping that Trump trips on something in some significant way. Its pretty poor planning to be honest (relying on the opposition rather than yourself), its hard to believe they feel they have run out of all other options....unless we soon see a resistance from enough quarters of the democrat party against their elite running them into the gutter like this.


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Given this was pretty much a stunt for judge shopping, like I said, its going to go to SCOTUS 99% of the time (1% it gets overturned in the 9th given I dont believe in absolutes) where it is resolved....and there can be only one ruling there because not every liberal judge there can ignore USC 1182 which has tons of precedent in action (incl obama) and decide to legislate from the bench...and all it takes is one (given the current 50 50 split) and thats only if Kennedy lets it get to that.
> 
> 9th circuit is easily the most pro-legislation from bench, anti-actual merit based judging court out there....one only needs to look at their overturn rate....and also listen in to what was actually deliberated over the phone in the ongoing hearing (quite ridiculous waffle external to the defined purview of a judge in so many parts). The DOJ lawyer did not do a good job either (though probably wouldn't have mattered given its the 9th circuit).
> 
> Democrats knew what they are doing (as desperate and ultimately counter-productive that it will be given Trump only gets aggravated more in response e.g. Mexico wall 10 feet higher attitude). Its the same policy they are employing in the senate to slow down confirmations and such. It seems this is the policy they have chosen instead of actually concisely targetting Trump's economic and security agenda specifics in genuine factual debate (but that would mean admitting they were wrong about the degree of the overall negative aura they have projected around Trump..and retreating in a big way from that....which I guess is sadly anathema to political parties in general). They are betting on the long term polarisation on aiding them and hoping that Trump trips on something in some significant way. Its pretty poor planning to be honest (relying on the opposition rather than yourself), its hard to believe they feel they have run out of all other options....unless we soon see a resistance from enough quarters of the democrat party against their elite running them into the gutter like this.



So a unanimous _per curiam_ rejection of Trump's order in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, and now we go on to the next step in due process.

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## RabzonKhan

Nilgiri said:


> WTF LOL:


Okay, that was embarrassing, but this is even worse, at a meeting with sheriffs, Pres. Trump repeated a false (nothing new there though) statistic about the US murder rate and then had the cheek to criticize the press, sad.

He said, “the murder rate in our country is the highest it's been in 47 years, right? Did you know that? Forty-seven years. I used to use that — I'd say that in a speech and everybody was surprised, because the press doesn't tell it like it is. It wasn't to their advantage to say that. But the murder rate is the highest it's been in, I guess, from 45 to 47 years.”

In fact, according to the FBI, the murder rate is currently at less than half its peak.

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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> Okay, that was embarrassing, but this is even worse, at a meeting with sheriffs, Pres. Trump repeated a false (nothing new there though) statistic about the US murder rate and then had the cheek to criticize the press, sad.
> 
> He said, “the murder rate in our country is the highest it's been in 47 years, right? Did you know that? Forty-seven years. I used to use that — I'd say that in a speech and everybody was surprised, because the press doesn't tell it like it is. It wasn't to their advantage to say that. But the murder rate is the highest it's been in, I guess, from 45 to 47 years.”
> 
> In fact, according to the FBI, the murder rate is currently at less than half its peak.
> 
> View attachment 376333



The current murder rate is still way too high, so he is not wrong when he says 47 years was roughly the last time the rate was this high:

https://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/State/RunCrimeStatebyState.cfm

He didn't even account for the population being lower back then (so honestly the real number of years would be even more to have the same rate). Not to mention it gets even worse when we are talking about violent crimes in total.

Now the part that he said was technically wrong was of course: _But the murder rate is the highest it's been in, I guess, from 45 to 47 years.”_

But he did say "I guess" (and "guessed" wrong). Obama and almost every president have said far worse (I did not have sexual relations with that woman!) and promised far worse (if you like your plan, you can keep it!)....and they didn't qualify it with anything like "I guess".

Trump on the other hand is going all out to get the inner cities to get behind him, or at least continue to diminish their support to the democrats....so of course he is going to engage in some showmanship. He wants to secure the rust belt fully, push in the message that bad trade deals, illegal immigrants and violent crime (be it murder or anything else) does not need to be the accepted default....so he is going to be bending the facts to get the broader message through.

So you are going to compare that with Pelosi and what that other lady said? Sorry in Trump's case its crafty populism (and it worked big league as you saw in Nov 8th against ALL the polls you spent so much time putting up each day). In Pelosi and other lady's case....its just senility....and its indicative of the democrat party problem that they actually in their infinite wisdom elected this lady yet again as their house leader. So like I said....WTF?


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## LA se Karachi

Nilgiri said:


> The current murder rate is still way too high, so he is not wrong when he says 47 years was roughly the last time the rate was this high:
> 
> https://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/State/RunCrimeStatebyState.cfm
> 
> He didn't even account for the population being lower back then (so honestly the real number of years would be even more to have the same rate). Not to mention it gets even worse when we are talking about violent crimes in total.
> 
> Now the part that he said was technically wrong was of course: _But the murder rate is the highest it's been in, I guess, from 45 to 47 years.”_




He was wrong. As someone who spent his entire life in New York City, he of all people should know that the murder rate is much lower than it was in the 1970s, 1980s, and early 1990s.



Nilgiri said:


> But he did say "I guess" (and "guessed" wrong).




A President shouldn't be "guessing" when it comes to things like this. If he was unsure, he could have simply asked his advisors before speaking. It is a very clear statistic that can be checked immediately. He was on camera here and making a public statement. This was not an off-hand remark that he made in a private conversation that later became public. And this was not a case of the President making a prediction about one of his policies that didn't pan out quite as expected. What he said was wrong.



Nilgiri said:


> Trump on the other hand is going all out to get the inner cities to get behind him, or at least continue to diminish their support to the democrats....so of course he is going to engage in some showmanship.




Cities are never, ever going to get behind Trump. Urban denizens and their suburban counterparts (rich and poor alike) have been steadily moving away from the Republican Party. Trump exacerbated this problem in 2016. Many urban and suburban areas backed Clinton by a wider margin than they did Obama in 2012, even though she was far less popular.

His nativism, xenophobia, and personality are exactly what they find most distasteful about the present-day Republican Party. He became the first Republican to lose Orange County in 80 years. Hillary won by a 51%-42% margin, something not even Obama could do in either of his runs in 2008 or 2012, when he lost by 48-51% and 45%-53% margins, respectively. As long they keep nominating people like Trump, their problems will only get worse, not better.



Nilgiri said:


> He wants to secure the rust belt fully, push in the message that bad trade deals, illegal immigrants and violent crime (be it murder or anything else) does not need to be the accepted default....so he is going to be bending the facts to get the broader message through.


 

He has every right to push his message and campaign for his policies, but stating obvious falsehoods is never okay.



Nilgiri said:


> So you are going to compare that with Pelosi and what that other lady said? Sorry in Trump's case its crafty populism




Populism that isn't actually populism, unfortunately.



Nilgiri said:


> and its indicative of the democrat party problem that they actually in their infinite wisdom elected this lady yet again as their house leader. So like I said....WTF?




The_ Democratic _Party. Are we going to have to do this every time? I don't mind, but I don't see why some conservatives are unable to say this.

I would rather they elected someone other than Pelosi, it's time for someone new. But she is still far better than Trump.




Nilgiri said:


> Democrats knew what they are doing (as desperate and ultimately counter-productive that it will be given Trump only gets aggravated more in response e.g. Mexico wall 10 feet higher attitude). Its the same policy they are employing in the senate to slow down confirmations and such.




Trump has put together one of the worst cabinets in recent memory. Mattis, Elaine Chao, and other noncontroversial nominees had no problem getting confirmed.

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## Nilgiri

LA se Karachi said:


> Cities are never, ever going to get behind Trump. Urban denizens and their suburban counterparts (rich and poor alike) have been steadily moving away from the Republican Party. Trump exacerbated this problem in 2016. Many urban and suburban areas backed Clinton by a wider margin than they did Obama in 2012, even though she was far less popular.
> 
> His nativism, xenophobia, and personality are exactly what they find most distasteful about the present-day Republican Party. He became the first Republican to lose Orange County in 80 years. Hillary won by a 51%-42% margin, something not even Obama could do in either of his runs in 2008 or 2012, when he lost by 48-51% and 45%-53% margins, respectively. As long they keep nominating people like Trump, their problems will only get worse, not better.



Its funny you always bring up california and other voter fraud + illegal affected areas.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/illegal-immigrant-charged-voter-fraud-132216684.html

Its fine, give it some time for it to get sorted out so a nov 8th like reality comes smashing through down the road. It's one of those topics you cant convince me and I can't convince you on it, so best to let the actual events transpire.

I certainly had my own on the ground analysis of the rust belt (including cities) when I was there last time....that stood in stark contrast to what the polls put out....and the result spoke for itself. I thus am not amenable to believing any statistics put out by the same groups ever again....especially those with political topics.

California itself may now always remain solid blue (given the Reagan amnesty) overall, but I'm talking about the new swing states further east. If trump can consolidate in the inner cities there (by delivering what was promised as far as economy and security goes)...its game over for the democrats.

I'm not talking about existing popularity levels, I'm talking trends (compared to 2012) and the fact there is a good opportunity for Trump to deliver here past what people immediately perceive of the chap. That is what they will judge him on in large part in 2018 and 2020. Its also why the polls were so very wrong about Trump in the swing states. Unfortunately for the dems, 2018 sees the majority of their seats coming up for re-election...so anti-incumbency is going to be pretty cruel even without the Trump factor (though I guess many will argue Trump would have resolutely failed/exposed or whatever by then....the glass of milk paradox etc).

Rest of your post, we'll have to agree to disagree as usual.

As for Pelosi being "better" than Trump....yeah another one I'd have to disagree with:






Looking a victim straight in the eyes and lieing like that ...that "in sanctuary cities, our people are not disobeying the law" and that they are "law abiding citizens" @Desert Fox you should see this.

Again its really ok, she gets to see her edifice collapse even more around her now...I really don't care what happens to the Democrat party now. They deserve it all and more. Hopefully their sane components can pull away from the direction their elite is taking them and fracture to become stronger if they need to. But lets wait and see.

Pelosi said Obamacare has to be passed before people know whats in it. Well the people have spoken as far as that goes, I still remember the big talk:


----------



## LA se Karachi

Nilgiri said:


> Its funny you always bring up california and other voter fraud + illegal affected areas.
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/illegal-immigrant-charged-voter-fraud-132216684.html




Oh my goodness, again with the virtually non-existent "voter fraud". I've discussed it with you before. You keep bringing up this laughable claim. People do not have the ability to impersonate millions of legitimate voters and get away with it. Trying to find out the necessary information to do so is almost impossible itself.

And if many people even tried to do so, it would become apparent immediately. Voter information on voting registration forms is cross-checked with federal data like Social Security numbers (it's required when you fill out a voter registration form here). The truth is the truth, you cannot run away from it.
_

"Voters acting on their own have no rational cause to vote fraudulently. The odds of casting a deciding vote are miniscule and cheaters risk criminal prosecution under state laws on the books for decades. The costs of fraudulent voting are steep and the benefits practically non-existent. Spurious, politically-motivated allegations of voter fraud are a distraction from the real problems in U.S. elections."

_


_

Replicating my methodology, 24 journalism students at twelve universities reviewed some 2,000 public records and identified just six cases of voter impersonation between 2000 and 2012.

Under Republican President George W. Bush, the U.S. Justice Department searched for voter fraud. But in the first three years of the program, just 26 people were convicted or pled guilty to illegal registration or voting. Out of 197,056,035 votes cast in the two federal elections held during that period, the rate of voter fraud was a miniscule 0.00000132 percent!

No state considering or passing restrictive voter identification laws has documented an actual problem with voter fraud. In litigation over the new voter identification laws in Wisconsin, Indiana, Georgia and Pennsylvania, election officials testified they have never seen cases of voter impersonation at the polls. Indiana and Pennsylvania stipulated in court that they had experienced zero instances of voter fraud. 

When federal authorities challenged voter identification laws in South Carolina and Texas, neither state provided any evidence of voter impersonation or any other type of fraud that could be deterred by requiring voters to present photo identification at the polls."
_
_http://www.scholarsstrategynetwork.org/brief/misleading-myth-voter-fraud-american-elections_


Most illegal immigrants are so afraid of the government, that they won't even let themselves be interviewed by the census, even though they are assured that no harm will come to them. They avoid the police and other government institutions too. The idea that millions of them filled out voter registration forms and tried to vote (and somehow got away with it) is nothing short of hilarious. And in any case, there was _no incentive_ for people to vote illegally in safe states anyway. Hillary Clinton was going to win California easily, and everyone knew that.



Nilgiri said:


> Its fine, give it some time for it to get sorted out so a nov 8th like reality comes smashing through down the road.




Some of us are very happy that Trump won on November 8th. The more you mention it, the more I smile. The unpopular Hillary Clinton is gone forever, but the unpopular Trump is still here, enacting many unpopular policies. We're in agreement that we like Trump is President. Please don't take my comments as a reaction to his election.



Nilgiri said:


> It's one of those topics you cant convince me and I can't convince you on it, so best to let the actual events transpire.




Well, I'm not trying to get you to change your positions on issues, or for you to abandon your support for Trump. I'm merely stating some facts. Urban areas have been steadily moving away from the Republican Party, while less-populated rural areas have been moving towards it. This is a fact. Please compare the election maps for the elections of the last 35 years.



Nilgiri said:


> California itself may now always remain solid blue (given the Reagan amnesty) overall, but I'm talking about the new swing states further east.




California has turned blue due to the changing voter patterns in the West Coast and the Northeast, along with legal immigration. Look at Washington and Oregon too. Areas in the South have become much more Republican, in contrast. If you lived out here, you would realize how liberal white voters in coastal California are (where the vast majority of the state lives), and how even independent and Republican Whites are pretty moderate as well. I know of many who voted for Clinton, personally (despite having voted for Romney and/or McCain).



Nilgiri said:


> but I'm talking about the new swing states further east. If trump can consolidate in the inner cities there (by delivering what was promised as far as economy and security goes)...its game over for the democrats.





Nilgiri said:


> I'm not talking about existing popularity levels, I'm talking trends (compared to 2012) and the fact there is a good opportunity for Trump to deliver here past what people immediately perceive of the chap.




Well, if you're talking about the urban areas in the Midwest (which has always been a swingy area in recent elections), then they too moved away from the Republicans in most areas (with a few exceptions). You can see it on the map. It was the rural areas in these states that moved strongly towards Trump, which resulted in very narrow victories in a few states that ultimately won him the Electoral College. Keep in mind that many Midwestern Democrats simply stayed home or voted third-party. This was the biggest reason he won, although there was a shift in support towards him.

Not to mention that these areas are diversifying and younger whites are much more Democratic than their older counterparts (see exit polls). The Republican voter base of rural whites, older generations, and non-college educated whites is steadily shrinking. College educated-whites, in contrast, shifted strongly towards Clinton, and their ranks are growing. These are facts.



Nilgiri said:


> That is what they will judge him on in large part in 2018 and 2020. Its also why the polls were so very wrong about Trump in the swing states.




Well the polls weren't exactly wrong. They measured people's preferences correctly. However, they incorrectly predicted turnout, and that's what doomed Hillary Clinton in those states.



Nilgiri said:


> Unfortunately for the dems, 2018 sees the majority of their seats coming up for re-election...so anti-incumbency is going to be pretty cruel even without the Trump factor (though I guess many will argue Trump would have resolutely failed/exposed or whatever by then....the glass of milk paradox etc).




Actually, that's very fortunate for the Democrats. Republicans are the incumbent Party now. The President's party almost always loses seats in midterm elections:







I don't think he's necessarily going to be a "failure" by 2018. I don't expect things to change too much between now and then. But if things simply stay the same, a President with an approval rating in the low 40s, will not do well in the midterm election.



Nilgiri said:


> Looking a victim straight in the eyes and lieing like that ...that "in sanctuary cities, our people are not disobeying the law" and that they are "law abiding citizens" @Desert Fox you should see this.
> 
> Again its really ok, she gets to see her edifice collapse even more around her now...I really don't care what happens to the Democrat party now. They deserve it all and more. Hopefully their sane components can pull away from the direction their elite is taking them and fracture to become stronger if they need to. But lets wait and see.
> 
> Pelosi said Obamacare has to be passed before people know whats in it. Well the people have spoken as far as that goes, I still remember the big talk:




Well, you can keep posting videos of Nancy Pelosi. I certainly don't mind. I don't really even like her.

But yes, I definitely prefer her to this:

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## Nilgiri

LA se Karachi said:


> Oh my goodness, again with the virtually non-existent "voter fraud". I've discussed it with you before. You keep bringing up this laughable claim. People do not have the ability to impersonate millions of legitimate voters and get away with it. Trying to find out the necessary information to do so is almost impossible itself.
> 
> And if many people even tried to do so, it would become apparent immediately. Voter information on voting registration forms is cross-checked with federal data like Social Security numbers (it's required when you fill out a voter registration form here). The truth is the truth, you cannot run away from it.
> _
> 
> "Voters acting on their own have no rational cause to vote fraudulently. The odds of casting a deciding vote are miniscule and cheaters risk criminal prosecution under state laws on the books for decades. The costs of fraudulent voting are steep and the benefits practically non-existent. Spurious, politically-motivated allegations of voter fraud are a distraction from the real problems in U.S. elections."
> 
> _
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Replicating my methodology, 24 journalism students at twelve universities reviewed some 2,000 public records and identified just six cases of voter impersonation between 2000 and 2012.
> 
> Under Republican President George W. Bush, the U.S. Justice Department searched for voter fraud. But in the first three years of the program, just 26 people were convicted or pled guilty to illegal registration or voting. Out of 197,056,035 votes cast in the two federal elections held during that period, the rate of voter fraud was a miniscule 0.00000132 percent!
> 
> No state considering or passing restrictive voter identification laws has documented an actual problem with voter fraud. In litigation over the new voter identification laws in Wisconsin, Indiana, Georgia and Pennsylvania, election officials testified they have never seen cases of voter impersonation at the polls. Indiana and Pennsylvania stipulated in court that they had experienced zero instances of voter fraud.
> 
> When federal authorities challenged voter identification laws in South Carolina and Texas, neither state provided any evidence of voter impersonation or any other type of fraud that could be deterred by requiring voters to present photo identification at the polls."
> _
> _http://www.scholarsstrategynetwork.org/brief/misleading-myth-voter-fraud-american-elections_
> 
> 
> Most illegal immigrants are so afraid of the government, that they won't even let themselves be interviewed by the census, even though they are assured that no harm will come to them. They avoid the police and other government institutions too. The idea that millions of them filled out voter registration forms and tried to vote (and somehow got away with it) is nothing short of hilarious. And in any case, there was _no incentive_ for people to vote illegally in safe states anyway. Hillary Clinton was going to win California easily, and everyone knew that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I'm not trying to get you to change your positions on issues, or for you to abandon your support for Trump. I'm merely stating some facts. Urban areas have been steadily moving away from the Republican Party, while less-populated rural areas have been moving towards it. This is a fact. Please compare the election maps for the elections of the last 35 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California has turned blue due to the changing voter patterns in the West Coast and the Northeast, along with legal immigration. Look at Washington and Oregon too. Areas in the South have become much more Republican, in contrast. If you lived out here, you would realize how liberal white voters in coastal California are (where the vast majority of the state lives), and how even independent and Republican Whites are pretty moderate as well. I know of many who voted for Clinton, personally (despite having voted for Romney and/or McCain).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you're talking about the urban areas in the Midwest (which has always been a swingy area in recent elections), then they too moved away from the Republicans in most areas (with a few exceptions). You can see it on the map. It was the rural areas in these states that moved strongly towards Trump, which resulted in very narrow victories in a few states that ultimately won him the Electoral College. Keep in mind that many Midwestern Democrats simply stayed home or voted third-party. This was the biggest reason he won, although there was a shift in support towards him.
> 
> Not to mention that these areas are diversifying and younger whites are much more Democratic than their older counterparts (see exit polls). The Republican voter base of rural whites, older generations, and non-college educated whites is steadily shrinking. College educated-whites, in contrast, shifted strongly towards Clinton, and their ranks are growing. These are facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the polls weren't exactly wrong. They measured people's preferences correctly. However, they incorrectly predicted turnout, and that's what doomed Hillary Clinton in those states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, that's very fortunate for the Democrats. Republicans are the incumbent Party now. The President's party almost always loses seats in midterm elections:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think he's necessarily going to be a "failure" by 2018. I don't expect things to change too much between now and then. But if things simply stay the same, a President with an approval rating in the low 40s, will not do well in the midterm election.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you can keep posting videos of Nancy Pelosi. I certainly don't mind. I don't really even like her.
> 
> But yes, I definitely prefer her to this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of us are very happy that Trump won on November 8th. The more you mention it, the more I smile. The unpopular Hillary Clinton is gone forever, but the unpopular Trump is still here, enacting many unpopular policies. We're in agreement that we like Trump is President. Please don't take my comments as a reaction to his election.



Like I said, we have to wait and see how it all goes.

It has only been 3 weeks or so of Trump...theres plenty of time left where things will be done and underlying issues exposed. We can only see who is right and who is wrong then....be it voter fraud investigation, inner city trends and of course the larger aspects of security and economy.


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## OMG!!PONIES!!!

Quick heads up everyone.

As of Monday (2.13.17) I will no longer be moderating this section (or the Europe and Russia section) and will no longer be an active participant on PDF. After eight months of maternity leave I'm set to return to work where, unfortunately (or fortunately for you rule breakers), I can not maintain a presence on the internet for security reasons - as is mandated by my terms of employment - let alone on a defense forum where conflict of interest and the possibility of revealing compromising information is an issue. Sorry for being so sudden about it, but that's life.

Have fun,

Fenrir

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## LA se Karachi

OMG!!PONIES!!! said:


> Quick heads up everyone.
> 
> As of Monday (2.13.17) I will no longer be moderating this section (or the Europe and Russia section) and will no longer be an active participant on PDF. After eight months of maternity leave I'm set to return to work where, unfortunately (or fortunately for you rule breakers), I can not maintain a presence on the internet for security reasons - as is mandated by my terms of employment - let alone on a defense forum where conflict of interest and the possibility of revealing compromising information is an issue. Sorry for being so sudden about it, but that's life.
> 
> Have fun,
> 
> Fenrir




You will be missed. Best of luck though.


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## JanjaWeed



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## T-72M1

LA se Karachi said:


>


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## KAL-EL

*BREAKING* :

National Security advisor Michael Flynn has resigned.

Tried to copy and paste articles from several news sources, but my phone/browser has not been cooperating and it's frustrating the living **** out of me.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/13/polit...te-house-national-security-adviser/index.html

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## T-72M1

KAL-EL said:


> Michael Flynn has resigned.


unfortunate development that, big league even.  

The silver lining is that he's had Trump's ear for the better part of 2 years now so he's probably passed on a lot of his worldview, knowledge and laid a solid foundation on which Trump can now build on.


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## Nilgiri

T-72M1 said:


> unfortunate development that, big league even.
> 
> The silver lining is that he's had Trump's ear for the better part of 2 years now so he's probably passed on a lot of his worldview, knowledge and laid a solid foundation on which Trump can now build on.



He will remain in touch. Its unfortunate more wasn't done to preemptively shield better from any of this Russian stuff, now MSM will latch on to it like the blood sucking tick they are.


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## T-72M1

Nilgiri said:


> He will remain in touch. Its unfortunate more wasn't done to preemptively shield better from any of this Russian stuff, now MSM will latch on to it like the blood sucking tick they are.


it is a big loss for team Trump, and could Pence be playing 5th column here ? 

could a John Bolton style neocon replacement be coming ?


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## Nilgiri

T-72M1 said:


> it is a big loss for team Trump, and could Pence be playing 5th column here ?
> 
> could a John Bolton style neocon replacement be coming ?



Will have to wait and see. I started getting a sinking feeling about some of the appointments ever since Preibus and the paul ryan butt buddies claimed their stake.


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## F-22Raptor

Trump Campaign Aides Had Repeated Contacts With Russian Intelligence

WASHINGTON — Phone records and intercepted calls show that members of Donald J. Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and other Trump associates had repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials in the year before the election, according to four current and former American officials.

American law enforcement and intelligence agencies intercepted the communications around the same time they were discovering evidence that Russia was trying to disrupt the presidential election by hacking into the Democratic National Committee, three of the officials said. The intelligence agencies then sought to learn whether the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians on the hacking or other efforts to influence the election.

The officials interviewed in recent weeks said that, so far, they had seen no evidence of such cooperation.

But the intercepts alarmed American intelligence and law enforcement agencies, in part because of the amount of contact that was occurring while Mr. Trump was speaking glowingly about the Russian president, Vladimir V. Putin. At one point last summer, Mr. Trump said at a campaign event that he hoped Russian intelligence services had stolen Hillary Clinton’s emails and would make them public.

The officials said the intercepted communications were not limited to Trump campaign officials, and included other associates of Mr. Trump. On the Russian side, the contacts also included members of the government outside of the intelligence services, they said. All of the current and former officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because the continuing investigation is classified.

The officials said that one of the advisers picked up on the calls was Paul Manafort, who was Mr. Trump’s campaign chairman for several months last year and had worked as a political consultant in Ukraine. The officials declined to identify the other Trump associates on the calls.

The call logs and intercepted communications are part of a larger trove of information that the F.B.I. is sifting through as it investigates the links between Mr. Trump’s associates and the Russian government, as well as the hacking of the D.N.C., according to federal law enforcement officials. As part of its inquiry, the F.B.I. has obtained banking and travel records and conducted interviews, the officials said.

Mr. Manafort, who has not been charged with any crimes, dismissed the officials’ accounts in a telephone interview on Tuesday. “This is absurd,” he said. “I have no idea what this is referring to. I have never knowingly spoken to Russian intelligence officers, and I have never been involved with anything to do with the Russian government or the Putin administration or any other issues under investigation today.”

He added, “It’s not like these people wear badges that say, ‘I’m a Russian intelligence officer.’”

Several of Mr. Trump’s associates, like Mr. Manafort, have done business in Russia. And it is not unusual for American businessmen to come in contact with foreign intelligence officials, sometimes unwittingly, in countries like Russia and Ukraine, where the spy services are deeply embedded in society. Law enforcement officials did not say to what extent the contacts might have been about business.

The officials would not disclose many details, including what was discussed on the calls, the identity of the Russian intelligence officials who participated, and how many of Mr. Trump’s advisers were talking to the Russians. It is also unclear whether the conversations had anything to do with Mr. Trump himself.

A report from American intelligence agencies that was made public in January concluded that the Russian government had intervened in the election in part to help Mr. Trump, but did not address whether any members of the Trump campaign had participated in the effort.

The intercepted calls are different from the wiretapped conversations last year between Michael T. Flynn, Mr. Trump’s former national security adviser, and Sergey I. Kislyak, Russia’s ambassador to the United States. In those calls, which led to Mr. Flynn’s resignation on Monday night, the two men discussed sanctions that the Obama administration imposed on Russia in December.

But the cases are part of American intelligence and law enforcement agencies’ routine electronic surveillance of the communications of foreign officials.

The F.B.I. declined to comment. The White House also declined to comment Tuesday night, but earlier in the day, the press secretary, Sean Spicer, stood by Mr. Trump’s previous comments that nobody from his campaign had contact with Russian officials before the election.

“There’s nothing that would conclude me that anything different has changed with respect to that time period,” Mr. Spicer said in response to a question.

Two days after the election in November, Sergei A. Ryabkov, the deputy Russian foreign minister, said “there were contacts” during the campaign between Russian officials and Mr. Trump’s team.

“Obviously, we know most of the people from his entourage,” Mr. Ryabkov told Russia’s Interfax news agency.

The Trump transition team denied Mr. Ryabkov’s statement. “This is not accurate,” Hope Hicks, a spokeswoman for Mr. Trump, said at the time.

The National Security Agency, which monitors the communications of foreign intelligence services, initially captured the calls between Mr. Trump’s associates and the Russians as part of routine foreign surveillance. After that, the F.B.I. asked the N.S.A. to collect as much information as possible about the Russian operatives on the phone calls, and to search through troves of previous intercepted communications that had not been analyzed.

The F.B.I. has closely examined at least three other people close to Mr. Trump, although it is unclear if their calls were intercepted. They are Carter Page, a businessman and former foreign policy adviser to the campaign; Roger Stone, a longtime Republican operative; and Mr. Flynn.

All of the men have strongly denied that they had any improper contacts with Russian officials.

As part of the inquiry, the F.B.I. is also trying to assess the credibility of the information contained in a dossier that was given to the bureau last year by a former British intelligence operative. The dossier contained a raft of allegations of a broad conspiracy between Mr. Trump, his associates and the Russian government. It also included unsubstantiated claims that the Russians had embarrassing videos that could be used to blackmail Mr. Trump.

The F.B.I. has spent several months investigating the leads in the dossier, but has yet to confirm any of its most explosive claims.

Senior F.B.I. officials believe that the former British intelligence officer who compiled the dossier, Christopher Steele, has a credible track record, and he briefed investigators last year about how he obtained the information. One American law enforcement official said that F.B.I. agents had made contact with some of Mr. Steele’s sources.

The agency’s investigation of Mr. Manafort began last spring as an outgrowth of a criminal investigation into his work for a pro-Russian political party in Ukraine and for the country’s former president, Viktor F. Yanukovych. It has focused on why he was in such close contact with Russian and Ukrainian intelligence officials.

The bureau did not have enough evidence to obtain a warrant for a wiretap of Mr. Manafort’s communications, but it had the N.S.A. scrutinize the communications of Ukrainian officials he had met.

The F.B.I. investigation is proceeding at the same time that separate investigations into Russian interference in the election are gaining momentum on Capitol Hill. Those investigations, by the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, are examining not only the Russian hacking but also any contacts that Mr. Trump’s team had with Russian officials during the campaign.

On Tuesday, top Republican lawmakers said that Mr. Flynn should be one focus of the investigation, and that he should be called to testify before Congress. Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, the top Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, said the news about Mr. Flynn underscored “how many questions still remain unanswered to the American people more than three months after Election Day, including who was aware of what, and when.”

Mr. Warner said Mr. Flynn’s resignation would not stop the committee “from continuing to investigate General Flynn, or any other campaign official who may have had inappropriate and improper contacts with Russian officials prior to the election.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/us/politics/russia-intelligence-communications-trump.html?_r=0

A thorough investigation needs to be conducted into the Trump administration ties with Russia. Good riddance to that Russian stooge Flynn.

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## T-72M1

F-22Raptor said:


> that Russian stooge Flynn.


that's about the last thing he was, you lost a good fighter in the war against islamic terror, one of the best. 

hopefully there's many others just like and even more hardcore than him who can take his place. 

Flynn out is a win for saudi arabia, isis, al qaeda, wahhabism etc.


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## The Eagle

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/831840174246133761


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## F-22Raptor

Trump is having a meltdown at this press conference. No one can convince me he doesn't have mental problems. Every American should be embarrassed by his performance today.

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## Nilgiri

You call this a meltdown? LOL.....pure ownage is what I see








@T-72M1 @Desert Fox

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## KAL-EL

F-22Raptor said:


> Trump is having a meltdown at this press conference. No one can convince me he doesn't have mental problems. Every American should be embarrassed by his performance today.



I found some of it was almost uncomfortable to watch.

I'm really trying to give President Trump the benefit of the doubt and give him an unbiased chance before casting any permanent judgment so soon into his administration.

I think most politicians are at least little narcissistic by nature, but he was displaying narcissism that almost seemed like it was on a cartoon level.

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## Nilgiri

KAL-EL said:


> I found some of it was almost uncomfortable to watch.
> 
> I'm really trying to give President Trump the benefit of the doubt and give him an unbiased chance before casting any permanent judgment so soon into his administration.
> 
> I think most politicians are at least little narcissistic by nature, but he was displaying narcissism that almost seemed like it was on a cartoon level.



You have to remember he is at war here with entrenched anti-american, pro-status quo forces. One casualty has just happened (Flynn) through illegal leaks:






So Trump basically has little option. His anti-MSM tirade plays to popular (and growing) sentiment in the US public....while buying him time to take more behind the scenes action against a real problem to his presidency.


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## T-72M1

Nilgiri said:


> You call this a meltdown? LOL.....pure ownage is what I see
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @T-72M1 @Desert Fox


watching now, Trump's ripping everyone a new one.

what a badass President he is, respek !

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## F-22Raptor

*Does Donald Trump Hate His New Job?*

Have you ever had a job you loved, but one where you felt like you’d achieved everything you could? So you looked for a new job, went through a fairly grueling application process, if you do say so yourself, got the offer. Then you started the job, and you hated it. Worse, all the tricks you’d learned in your old job seemed to be pretty much useless in the new one. Did you ever have that experience?

The president of the United States can sympathize.

Donald Trump held the first extended press conference of his presidency on Thursday, and it was a stunning, disorienting experience. He mused about nuclear war, escalated his feud with the press, continued to dwell on the vote count in November, asked whether a black reporter was friends with the Congressional Black Caucus, and, almost as an afterthought, announced his selection for secretary of labor.

One of the few continuous themes through the otherwise disjointed performance was how little fun Trump is having. “As you know, our administration inherited many problems across government and across the economy,” Trump started in, continuing:

To be honest, I inherited a mess. It’s a mess. At home and abroad, a mess. Jobs are pouring out of the country; you see what’s going on with all of the companies leaving our country, going to Mexico and other places, low pay, low wages, mass instability overseas, no matter where you look. The middle east is a disaster. North Korea—we’ll take care of it folks; we’re going to take care of it all. I just want to let you know, I inherited a mess.

Much of the press conference proceeded as an airing of grievances, as Trump unspooled his frustrations—principally with the press, but also quite clearly with the federal judiciary, the Senate, the Democratic Party, the intelligence community, ISIS, and whoever else came to mind.

The litany of misery wasn’t always consistent. On the one hand, “Jobs have already started to surge,” he said. On the other, “Jobs are pouring out of the country.” Trump’s doomsaying on the economy cut directly against a triumphant tweet Thursday morning, in which he boasted, “Stock market hits new high with longest winning streak in decades. Great level of confidence and optimism - even before tax plan rollout!”

There’s been a boom in the cottage industry of diagnosing the president’s mental health from afar these days, the kind of thing that shouldn’t even be done by licensed professionals, much less amateurs. But it’s hard not to suspect that Trump isn’t having a lot of fun. He’s eyed the presidency for decades, and now that he’s in the White House, he seems deeply unhappy.

And who can blame him? The administration is plagued by leaks, from rival factions sniping at each other within the West Wing to intelligence officials speaking for stories that have damaged the administration and brought down National Security Adviser Michael Flynn. (Yes, Virginia, that was _this week_, even though it feels like forever ago.) Trump’s signature immigration executive order has been halted by federal courts. The storied wall isn’t under construction, and Mexico still won’t pay. Several Cabinet spots remain unfilled. There’s little progress on repealing and replacing Obamacare. He is beginning to learn just how slowly the wheels of action turn in politics. Meanwhile, congressional Republicans have slowly begun to agitate for investigations into various questionable Trump moves.

Trump tried to insist everything was fine. “I turn on the TV, open the newspapers and I see stories of chaos. Chaos,” he said. “Yet it is the exact opposite. This administration is running like a fine-tuned machine, despite the fact that I can’t get my cabinet approved.”

He argued that, in the face of the evidence, he had already accomplished much. “In each of these actions, I’m keeping my promises to the American people. These are campaign promises,” he said. “Some people are so surprised that we’re having strong borders.”

His mood and words suggested otherwise. “I’m not ranting and raving,” he ranted and raved. There are other signs of frustration. Rather than spend weekends at the White House, he has made a habit of going to Mar-a-Lago, the Florida resort where he apparently feels more comfortable. On Saturday, he’ll hold what his aides have described as a campaign rally, effectively starting his 2020 reelection race. These are excuses to leave Washington, but they also point to a president who misses the presidential campaign, when he was an underdog who kept beating expectations, and before he had to wrestle with the work of governing. That nostalgia manifested itself in a reverie about the election, and how no one thought he could win.

“We got 306 because people came out and voted like they’ve never seen before so that’s the way it goes,” he said. In fact, he got 304. “I guess it was the biggest electoral college win since Ronald Reagan,” Trump said, again falsely.

Trump is not alone in encountering some challenges in his early presidency. John Kennedy joked to Robert McNamara, “I'm not aware of any school for presidents.” After receiving his first classified briefing as president-elect, in 2008, Barack Obama quipped, “It’s good that there are bars on the windows here because if there weren’t, I might be jumping out.”

Nor is Trump alone in his battles with the press. “I'm kind of sitting back and enjoying Trump's war with the press,” Leon Panetta, the former White House chief of staff, CIA director, and defense secretary, told me recently. “I've worked in one way or another under nine presidents. There isn't one of them that had a loving relationship with the press. The nature of it is presidents hate bad stories.”

But Trump seems to take this unusually personally, perhaps because he has always recognized the power of the media to craft his image, and so masterfully manipulated it in building his business legend and his presidential campaign. Now he can’t seem to catch a break from the press.

What about the problems he identified—ISIS, the economy, and so on: Did Trump not expect them to be intractable, thorny problems? After all, his campaign was predicated on a dark vision of America coming apart at the seams. On stumps from Arizona to Appalachia to Akron, he warned of the evils of the establishment, the threats of ISIS, the struggles of the economy. “I alone can fix it,” he pledged. Did Trump not believe his own rhetoric, or did he imagine that these problems would melt away simply by virtue of his inauguration?

The early Trump presidency has been more chaotic than any other recent launch, even the hectic first days of the Clinton administration. It’s hard to know what to make of Trump’s jeremiad, which, beneath the bluster and fury, telegraphed a plaintive frustration that he had been unable to accomplish more, and perhaps moreover to convince the press and the public that he was accomplishing more. The catch-22 for Trump is this: As his ratings obsession shows, he desperately wants to be loved. Yet that desire for approval is leading Trump toward campaign events, to Mar-a-Lago, to searingly weird press conferences—all things that distract him from getting down to the real work of governing, without which his performance and approval are unlikely to rise.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/the-president-hates-his-new-job/517029/

Trump was woefully unprepared to be President. He looked and sounded miserable today. There's a reason every President looks like they've aged 20 years at the end of their terms. I don't know if he can handle the stress for the next 4 years.

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## pakdefender

Donald Trump is right about the following

a) The world is a mess , he inherited a mess created by 2x terms of Obama and 2x terms of Bush
b) The media does indeed propagate one point of view , they have been at the forefront of propagating the war hysteria

Tony Blair , Bush , Obama , Clinton .. they were/are part of the same global cabal that created the mess. They are indeed the 'Washington Elite' that Donald Trump is not

Sure Donald Trump has said that he'll ban Mulsims and even enacted the ban but there is more at stake here then just traveling to America

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## LA se Karachi

*Poll: Trump's approval rating at 39 percent *

*




*

President Trump’s approval rating is at 39 percent, according to a new poll.

The latest Pew Research Center poll released Thursday shows Trump at a historic low compared with prior presidents in their first weeks in office.

The poll found just 39 percent approve of his job performance while 56 percent disapprove.

By comparison, President Barack Obama’s approval was at 64 percent in the February after he began his first term. President George W. Bush had a 53 percent approval rating in his first month in office. His father, President George H.W. Bush, had a 63 percent approval rating, while President Bill Clinton had a 56 percent approval rating. President Ronald Reagan had a 55 percent approval rating.
The poll found opinion on Trump is sharply polarized — 75 percent either strongly approve or strongly disapprove of the president.

The poll found that 60 percent believe Trump has kept his promises and 54 percent believe in his ability to get things done. Sixty-eight percent of those surveyed do not believe Trump is "even-tempered" while just 28 percent believe he is.

The Pew Research Center survey of 1,503 adults was conducted Feb. 7–12.

_http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...ll-trumps-approval-rating-drops-to-39-percent_

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## Nilgiri

"Polls"

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_feb17


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## LA se Karachi

Nilgiri said:


> "Polls"
> 
> http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_feb17




Rasmussen 


Gallup:

*Trump Job Approval 21 Points Below Average at One-Month Mark*
by Jeffrey M. Jones

*Story Highlights*

Trump job approval rating at 40%
Average approval in mid- to late February of first year in office is 61%
Trump approval among his party's supporters similar to that of prior presidents

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- President Donald Trump's 40% job approval rating about one month into his presidency is 21 percentage points below the historical average rating for elected presidents in mid-February (61%). It is also 11 points below the lowest mid-February reading for any other president.






Bill Clinton held the previous low for a president near the end of his first month in office, at 51%. Ronald Reagan was the only other president with ratings at this point in his tenure below 60%. John F. Kennedy and Jimmy Carter enjoyed approval ratings above 70% at similar points in their presidencies.

Trump's initial job approval rating was 45%, making him the first president to begin his term with less-than-majority approval. Since then, his approval has fallen by five percentage points.

Clinton and Barack Obama are the only other presidents whose approval ratings declined significantly during their first month in office. Clinton's seven-point decrease represents the biggest first-month drop in Gallup's records.

On the other hand, four presidents enjoyed a significant increase in approval during their first month, with George H.W. Bush's 12-point increase being the biggest.

The average first-month change in approval from Dwight Eisenhower through Trump has been a one-point gain...
_
http://www.gallup.com/poll/204050/trump-job-approval-points-below-average-one-month-mark.aspx_

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## Nilgiri

LA se Karachi said:


> Rasmussen
> 
> 
> Gallup:
> 
> *Trump Job Approval 21 Points Below Average at One-Month Mark*
> by Jeffrey M. Jones
> 
> *Story Highlights*
> 
> Trump job approval rating at 40%
> Average approval in mid- to late February of first year in office is 61%
> Trump approval among his party's supporters similar to that of prior presidents
> 
> WASHINGTON, D.C. -- President Donald Trump's 40% job approval rating about one month into his presidency is 21 percentage points below the historical average rating for elected presidents in mid-February (61%). It is also 11 points below the lowest mid-February reading for any other president.
> 
> View attachment 377917
> 
> 
> Bill Clinton held the previous low for a president near the end of his first month in office, at 51%. Ronald Reagan was the only other president with ratings at this point in his tenure below 60%. John F. Kennedy and Jimmy Carter enjoyed approval ratings above 70% at similar points in their presidencies.
> 
> Trump's initial job approval rating was 45%, making him the first president to begin his term with less-than-majority approval. Since then, his approval has fallen by five percentage points.
> 
> Clinton and Barack Obama are the only other presidents whose approval ratings declined significantly during their first month in office. Clinton's seven-point decrease represents the biggest first-month drop in Gallup's records.
> 
> On the other hand, four presidents enjoyed a significant increase in approval during their first month, with George H.W. Bush's 12-point increase being the biggest.
> 
> The average first-month change in approval from Dwight Eisenhower through Trump has been a one-point gain...
> _
> http://www.gallup.com/poll/204050/trump-job-approval-points-below-average-one-month-mark.aspx_



I just don't take polls seriously anymore ...both the ones that say good and bad about trump. The sampling strategies and post-analysis leave much to be desired and can be skewed relatively easily.

The real verifiable result will be the mid terms as far as I am concerned. That will also give time for some of Trump's policy results to filter through and we shall see how they are perceived by the US public at large then....esp in crucial rust belt and inner cities.


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## LA se Karachi

Nilgiri said:


> I just don't take polls seriously anymore ...both the ones that say good and bad about trump. The sampling strategies and post-analysis leave much to be desired and can be skewed relatively easily.




Well, to each their own, I guess. Gallup is a reputable pollster though, and has been at the forefront of conducting
Presidential approval rating polls going back to the 1950s. Like most Americans, I find them to be a trusted source. Best in the business on this topic.



Nilgiri said:


> The real verifiable result will be the mid terms as far as I am concerned. That will also give time for some of Trump's policy results to filter through and we shall see how they are perceived by the US public at large then




Among those who turnout to vote in the midterm, yes.


Nilgiri said:


> esp in crucial rust belt and inner cities.




It will indeed be interesting to see what happens in the rust belt. He did very well in the rural areas there.

All major cities will stay opposed to Trump though. Republicans always do poorly there---in rich and poor neighborhoods alike, irrespective of ethnicity. Those voters are never coming back (and they've gone for a while now). They even shifted to the Democrats this year, despite the unpopular candidate the party nominated (Hillary Clinton). No doubt Trump was the reason why.

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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/832708293516632065
In an interview, Sen. Mccain indirectly criticize Trump for declaring the media “enemy of the American people”.

“A fundamental part of that new world order was a free press. I hate the press. I hate you especially,” McCain said with a smile. “But the fact is we need you. We need a free press. We must have it. It’s vital. If you want to preserve – I’m very serious now – if you want to preserve democracy as we know it, you have to have a free and many times adversarial press. And without it, I am afraid that we would lose so much of our individual liberties over time. That’s how dictators get started.” Watch the video for more:

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## F-22Raptor

Watching this rally, does Donald realize he won the election? I get it, this is his security blanket, but the fact of the matter is that he'll head back to Washington with an approval rating at historic lows this early in a Presidency. Is he still going to yap about how terrible things are, and how he's going to fix it a year from now? Eventually he's going to have to work with Congress to get his proposals passed. The American people want results, an if they don't get it, he and members of his party are going to be run out of office in the mid-terms and 2020 election.

This war with the media is one he will never win. The hits will keep on coming. He's wasting time and energy on things he has little control over and Americans are getting fed up with it. It's time to get back to reality Donald.

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## T-72M1

F-22Raptor said:


> This war with the media is one he will never win.


He's already won that war, now he's out to destroy them. Look at the media's poll ratings, the American people, it seems, just trust them anymore.. and with good reason, CNN is just disgusting on every level, pushed peegate and tried to give it credibility, they're pushing a pro saudi and jihadi narrative on Syria, colluded with crooked hillary's campaign, did everything they could possibly do and Trump still won the popular vote in 31 out of 50 states.

They don't have much credibility left, and they're making it worse for themselves with still trying to take on Trump, and it's not working, no one and nothing can stump the Trump.


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## F-22Raptor

T-72M1 said:


> He's already won that war, now he's out to destroy them. Look at the media's poll ratings, the American people, it seems, just trust them anymore.. and with good reason, CNN is just disgusting on every level, pushed peegate and tried to give it credibility, they're pushing a pro saudi and jihadi narrative on Syria, colluded with crooked hillary's campaign, did everything they could possibly do and Trump still won the popular vote in 31 out of 50 states.
> 
> They don't have much credibility left, and they're making it worse for themselves with still trying to take on Trump, and it's not working, no one and nothing can stump the Trump.



Your kidding right? Trump just fired his National Security Advisor due to press leaks that exposed his dishonesty. The Trump-Russia connection cloud still hangs over his head, and he's had multiple meltdowns on camera since. Clearly, you haven't been paying attention. 

I think it's important to mention here that freedom of the press is a 1st Amendment Right. An based on the onslaught of lies from the Trump Administration over the 1st month, I trust the media far more than I do Trump and his bootlickers.

Whose been the real enemy of truth? Lets take a look at the latest lie:


*Donald Trump Appears To Make Up Sweden Terror Attack*

President Donald Trump falsely suggested at a Florida rally Saturday that Sweden had suffered a terror attack the previous night.

After announcing that the White House planned to renew its efforts to restrict immigration, Trump cited several European countries and cities that he said showed the dangers of admitting immigrants, particularly refugees. 

“You look at what’s happening in Germany, you look at what’s happening last night in Sweden,” Trump told a large crowd of supporters in a hangar at the Orlando-Melbourne International Airport. “Sweden. Who would believe this? Sweden,” he added. “They took in large numbers. They’re having problems like they never thought possible.”

Trump’s subsequent remarks made clear he was referring to European locales that had endured terrorist attacks in the past two years.

“You look at what’s happening in Brussels. You look at what’s happening all over the world,” he said. “Take a look at Nice. Take a look at Paris.” 

Observers on Twitter pointed out that no such attack took place on Friday night.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-sweden-terror-lie_us_58a8f397e4b045cd34c263d3

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## F-22Raptor

Trump calls the media the enemy of the American people, yet when you look over his Twitter feed it's clear that he devours this information on a daily basis. Trump is a hypocrite and a liar. I hope the media continues to hold him and his administration accountable.

*A Back-Channel Plan for Ukraine and Russia, Courtesy of Trump Associates*

A week before Michael T. Flynn resigned as national security adviser, a sealed proposal was hand-delivered to his office, outlining a way for President Trump to lift sanctions against Russia.

Mr. Flynn is gone, having been caught lying about his own discussion of sanctions with the Russian ambassador. But the proposal, a peace plan for Ukraine and Russia, remains, along with those pushing it: Michael D. Cohen, the president’s personal lawyer, who delivered the document; Felix H. Sater, a business associate who helped Mr. Trump scout deals in Russia; and a Ukrainian lawmaker trying to rise in a political opposition movement shaped in part by Mr. Trump’s former campaign manager Paul D. Manafort.

At a time when Mr. Trump’s ties to Russia, and the people connected to him, are under heightened scrutiny — with investigations by American intelligence agencies, the F.B.I. and Congress — some of his associates remain willing and eager to wade into Russia-related efforts behind the scenes.

Mr. Trump has confounded Democrats and Republicans alike with his repeated praise for the Russian president, Vladimir V. Putin, and his desire to forge an American-Russian alliance. While there is nothing illegal about such unofficial efforts, a proposal that seems to tip toward Russian interests may set off alarms.

The amateur diplomats say their goal is simply to help settle a grueling, three-year conflict that has cost 10,000 lives. “Who doesn’t want to help bring about peace?” Mr. Cohen asked.

But the proposal contains more than just a peace plan. Andrii V. Artemenko, the Ukrainian lawmaker, who sees himself as a Trump-style leader of a future Ukraine, claims to have evidence — “names of companies, wire transfers” — showing corruption by the Ukrainian president, Petro O. Poroshenko, that could help oust him. And Mr. Artemenko said he had received encouragement for his plans from top aides to Mr. Putin.

“A lot of people will call me a Russian agent, a U.S. agent, a C.I.A. agent,” Mr. Artemenko said. “But how can you find a good solution between our countries if we do not talk?”

Mr. Cohen and Mr. Sater said they had not spoken to Mr. Trump about the proposal, and have no experience in foreign policy. Mr. Cohen is one of several Trump associates under scrutiny in an F.B.I. counterintelligence examination of links with Russia, according to law enforcement officials; he has denied any illicit connections.

The two others involved in the effort have somewhat questionable pasts: Mr. Sater, 50, a Russian-American, pleaded guilty to a role in a stock manipulation scheme decades ago that involved the Mafia. Mr. Artemenko spent two and a half years in jail in Kiev in the early 2000s on embezzlement charges, later dropped, which he said had been politically motivated.

While it is unclear if the White House will take the proposal seriously, the diplomatic freelancing has infuriated Ukrainian officials. Ukraine’s ambassador to the United States, Valeriy Chaly, said Mr. Artemenko “is not entitled to present any alternative peace plans on behalf of Ukraine to any foreign government, including the U.S. administration.”

At a security conference in Munich on Friday, Mr. Poroshenko warned the West against “appeasement” of Russia, and some American experts say offering Russia any alternative to a two-year-old international agreement on Ukraine would be a mistake. The Trump administration has sent mixed signals about the conflict in Ukraine.

But given Mr. Trump’s praise for Mr. Putin, John Herbst, a former American ambassador to Ukraine, said he feared the new president might be too eager to mend relations with Russia at Ukraine’s expense — potentially with a plan like Mr. Artemenko’s.

It was late January when the three men associated with the proposed plan converged on the Loews Regency, a luxury hotel on Park Avenue in Manhattan where business deals are made in a lobby furnished with leather couches, over martinis at the restaurant bar and in private conference rooms on upper floors.

Mr. Cohen, 50, lives two blocks up the street, in Trump Park Avenue. A lawyer who joined the Trump Organization in 2007 as special counsel, he has worked on many deals, including a Trump-branded tower in the republic of Georgia and a short-lived mixed martial arts venture starring a Russian fighter. He is considered a loyal lieutenant whom Mr. Trump trusts to fix difficult problems.

The F.B.I. is reviewing an unverified dossier, compiled by a former British intelligence agent and funded by Mr. Trump’s political opponents, that claims Mr. Cohen met with a Russian representative in Prague during the presidential campaign to discuss Russia’s hacking of Democratic targets. But the Russian official named in the report told The New York Times that he had never met Mr. Cohen. Mr. Cohen insists that he has never visited Prague and that the dossier’s assertions are fabrications.

Mr. Cohen has a personal connection to Ukraine: He is married to a Ukrainian woman and once worked with relatives there to establish an ethanol business.

Mr. Artemenko, tall and burly, arrived at the Manhattan hotel between visits to Washington. (His wife, he said, met the first lady, Melania Trump, years ago during their modeling careers, but he did not try to meet Mr. Trump.) He had attended the inauguration and visited Congress, posting on Facebook his admiration for Mr. Trump and talking up his peace plan in meetings with American lawmakers.

He entered Parliament in 2014, the year that the former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych fled to Moscow amid protests over his economic alignment with Russia and corruption. Mr. Manafort, who had been instrumental in getting Mr. Yanukovych elected, helped shape a political bloc that sprang up to oppose the new president, Mr. Poroshenko, a wealthy businessman who has taken a far tougher stance toward Russia and accused Mr. Putin of wanting to absorb Ukraine into a new Russian Empire. Mr. Artemenko, 48, emerged from the opposition that Mr. Manafort nurtured. (The two men have never met, Mr. Artemenko said.)

Before entering politics, Mr. Artemenko had business ventures in the Middle East and real estate deals in the Miami area, and had worked as an agent representing top Ukrainian athletes. Some colleagues in Parliament describe him as corrupt, untrustworthy or simply insignificant, but he appears to have amassed considerable wealth.

He has fashioned himself in the image of Mr. Trump, presenting himself as Ukraine’s answer to a rising class of nationalist leaders in the West. He even traveled to Cleveland last summer for the Republican National Convention, seizing on the chance to meet with members of Mr. Trump’s campaign.

“It’s time for new leaders, new approaches to the governance of the country, new principles and new negotiators in international politics,” he wrote on Facebook on Jan. 27. “Our time has come!”

Mr. Artemenko said he saw in Mr. Trump an opportunity to advocate a plan for peace in Ukraine — and help advance his own political career. Essentially, his plan would require the withdrawal of all Russian forces from eastern Ukraine. Ukrainian voters would decide in a referendum whether Crimea, the Ukrainian territory seized by Russia in 2014, would be leased to Russia for a term of 50 or 100 years.

The Ukrainian ambassador, Mr. Chaly, rejected a lease of that kind. “It is a gross violation of the Constitution,” he said in written answers to questions from The Times. “Such ideas can be pitched or pushed through only by those openly or covertly representing Russian interests.”

The reaction suggested why Mr. Artemenko’s project also includes the dissemination of “kompromat,” or compromising material, purportedly showing that Mr. Poroshenko and his closest associates are corrupt. Only a new government, presumably one less hostile to Russia, might take up his plan.

Mr. Sater, a longtime business associate of Mr. Trump’s with connections in Russia, was willing to help Mr. Artemenko’s proposal reach the White House.

Mr. Trump has sought to distance himself from Mr. Sater in recent years. If Mr. Sater “were sitting in the room right now,” Mr. Trump said in a 2013 deposition, “I really wouldn’t know what he looked like.”

But Mr. Sater worked on real estate development deals with the Trump Organization on and off for at least a decade, even after his role in the stock manipulation scheme came to light.

Mr. Sater, who was born in the Soviet Union and grew up in New York, served as an executive at a firm called Bayrock Group, two floors below the Trump Organization in Trump Tower, and was later a senior adviser to Mr. Trump.

He said he had been working on a plan for a Trump Tower in Moscow with a Russian real estate developer as recently as the fall of 2015, one that he said had come to a halt because of Mr. Trump’s presidential campaign. (Mr. Cohen said the Trump Organization had received a letter of intent for a project in Moscow from a Russian real estate developer at that time but determined that the project was not feasible.)

Mr. Artemenko said a mutual friend had put him in touch with Mr. Sater. Helping to advance the proposal, Mr. Sater said, made sense.

“I want to stop a war, number one,” he said. “Number two, I absolutely believe that the U.S. and Russia need to be allies, not enemies. If I could achieve both in one stroke, it would be a home run.”

After speaking with Mr. Sater and Mr. Artemenko in person, Mr. Cohen said he would deliver the plan to the White House.

Mr. Cohen said he did not know who in the Russian government had offered encouragement on it, as Mr. Artemenko claims, but he understood there was a promise of proof of corruption by the Ukrainian president.

“Fraud is never good, right?” Mr. Cohen said.

He said Mr. Sater had given him the written proposal in a sealed envelope. When Mr. Cohen met with Mr. Trump in the Oval Office in early February, he said, he left the proposal in Mr. Flynn’s office.

Mr. Cohen said he was waiting for a response when Mr. Flynn was forced from his post. Now Mr. Cohen, Mr. Sater and Mr. Artemenko are hoping a new national security adviser will take up their cause. On Friday the president wrote on Twitter that he had four new candidates for the job.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/19/us/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-russia.html?_r=0

The Trump-Russia stinch just won't go away.

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## AMDR

IMO by interfering in the 2016 election Russia won a short-lived tactical victory but may have committed a severe strategic mistake. This whole Russian scandal within the White House currently involves someone who was, even before it, not popular with most people and politicians (almost all Democrats and many establishment Republicans). 

Before, many regular people didn't really care about Ukraine or Russia or anything like that because like very other foreign policy problem for America it was so far away. Now that Russia has threatened US institutions and processes _on our own soil, _their could be an awakening by many people, especially democrats, that Russia is a hostile foreign power that must be contained. The Russian Federation is not an equal to the United States and it likely never will be. It is a authoritarian, corrupt, stagnant power that wants to push revisionism so it can regain a sphere of influence in Eastern Europe an Central Asia. As we have seen, it will go to great lengths to make that path easier for them. 

If this scandal persists right up to the 2020 election and Trump loses, that president will almost certainty have a tougher stance on Russia than any president since Ronald Reagan. We might see administrations take a hard line stance on Russia in the 2020s and most of the 2030s if this gets any worse.

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## T-72M1

AMDR said:


> IMO by interfering in the 2016 election Russia won a short-lived tactical victory but may have committed a severe strategic mistake. This whole Russian scandal within the White House currently involves someone who was, even before it, not popular with most people and politicians (almost all Democrats and many establishment Republicans).
> 
> Before, many regular people didn't really care about Ukraine or Russia or anything like that because like very other foreign policy problem for America it was so far away. Now that Russia has threatened US institutions and processes _on our own soil, _their could be an awakening by many people, especially democrats, that Russia is a hostile foreign power that must be contained. The Russian Federation is not an equal to the United States and it likely never will be. It is a authoritarian, corrupt, stagnant power that wants to push revisionism so it can regain a sphere of influence in Eastern Europe an Central Asia. As we have seen, it will go to great lengths to make that path easier for them.
> 
> If this scandal persists right up to the 2020 election and Trump loses, that president will almost certainty have a tougher stance on Russia than any president since Ronald Reagan. We might see administrations take a hard line stance on Russia in the 2020s and most of the 2030s if this gets any worse.


wow, some of you lot have truly lost the plot. 

you have people chopping your heads off in Iraq, Syria, Libya and all over the world but Putin is the enemy ? 

Russia are the good guys, if anything, you owe them a debt of gratitude for exposing crooked hillary and the demonrats... John Podesta and his satanic parties with prepubescent kids in the hot tub, Donna Brazile and fake news CNN illegally helping crooked H with debate and townhall questions, her foreign policy of helping al qaeda "rebels" in Syria and promise to start WW3 to help saudi arabia (the most disgusting *illiberal *fascist country on earth) 

Donald Trump saved your asz, you should be very grateful for that.

-------------------------------------------------------

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## RabzonKhan

*Trump family trips cost taxpayers $11.3m in one month – almost as much as Obama’s cost in a year*

Jaunts to estate in Mar-a-Lago, and secret service charges for his son's business trips across the globe, are costing American taxpayers

By Peter Walker

Donald Trump’s family’s trips have cost taxpayers nearly as much in a month as Barack Obama’s cost in an entire year.

The US President’s three visits to his Mar-a-Lago club in Florida since his presidential inauguration, combined with his sons’ business trips, reportedly cost $11.3m (£9.1m).

*Conservative watchdog Judicial Watch estimated Mr Obama’s travel expenses totalled an average $12.1m in each of his eight years in the White House.*

“This is an expensive way to conduct business, and the President should recognise that,” said Judicial Watch president Tom Fitton, speaking to the _Washington Post_.

“The unique thing about President Trump is that he knows what it costs to run a plane.

“Going down [to Mar-a-Lago] ain’t free.”

The three Mar-a-Lago trips in Palm Beach cost the federal treasury around $10m, based on figures used in an October government report analysing White House travel.

This includes cash for coast guards to patrol the exposed shoreline.

Palm Beach County Sheriff Ric Bradshaw also says it has cost local taxpayers $360,000 in police overtime for his three weekends in Florida since 20 January. 

*The Post also revealed it cost $88,320 to put secret service agents up in a hotel while son Eric Trump visited Uruguay to promote a Trump-brand condo tower.*

Records show it cost $5,470 to put up secret service officials at the AlSol Del Mar hotel in the Dominican Republic, as they scoped out the area, ahead of a similar visit by Eric Trump.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/503973652522885120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/155014799909064704
*The same records show more than $16,000 has been spent on secret service hotel bills for his two sons’ visit for a grand opening of a Trump-brand golf resort in Dubai. *

*The 70-year-old leader of the free world repeatedly criticised Mr Obama for his taxpayer-funded travel during his tenure.*

He tweeted in January 2012: “President @BarackObama’s vacation is costing taxpayers millions of dollars----Unbelievable!”

_The Independent_ has contacted Mr Trump's communications director for comment. *Link*

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## RabzonKhan

*Hypocrisy Meter Off The Charts As Trump Has Golfed 6 Times Since Taking Office*

By Sean Colarossi Feb 20th, 2017

Perhaps the new president should finish reading his job description instead of jetting off to Florida every weekend.

*After repeatedly criticizing Barack Obama for his golfing habits, the hypocrisy meter is flying off the charts as Donald Trump has visited his golf course half a dozen times in the span of a single month in office.*

For some reason, though, Trump’s team won’t admit that he’s actually golfing when he drops by his Sunshine State courses.

According to a new report from CNN, “[Trump’s] aides are trying to obscure whether Trump is actually golfing during the visits.”

Goodness, I can’t imagine why.

Could it have anything to do with the fact that Trump spent an entire campaign season waging attacks – like this one – on his predecessor?

Video:






“I don’t have time for that. I love golf, I think it’s one of the greats, but I don’t have time,” Trump said on the campaign trail in 2015. “We don’t have time for this. We have to work.”

On Twitter, President Obama’s golfing habits were brought up by Trump on numerous occasions, as this image from Brian Klaas points out:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/830565403361304576
One tweet read: “Can you believe that, with all of the problems and difficulties facing the U.S., President Obama spent the day playing golf. Worse than Carter.”

*Despite these attacks, Trump has spent three weekends in a row at his Mar-A-Lago Estate in Florida, where he has visited his nearby golf courses a half dozen times. Obama, on the other hand, didn’t play his first round of golf until the end of April in his first term.*

The difference, of course, is that former President Obama led a scandal-free administration that saved the economy from a second Great Depression, revived the American auto industry, disposed of Osama bin Laden, and provided health insurance to more than 20 million Americans – to name a few.

On the contrary, Trump’s White House has been a magnificent dumpster fire, plagued by scandal and incompetence literally from day one. Perhaps he should finish reading his job description before jetting off to Florida every weekend.

*To paraphrase the president, can you believe that, with all the problems and difficulties facing the new administration, that Trump has spent every weekend of his first month as president playing golf? Link*

.....................................................................


Meanwhile, there are reports that Trump is set to introduce a new “Muslim ban”. *Read*

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## RabzonKhan

A man is known by the company he keeps. 


*Trump Parties Over Presidents’ Day Weekend With Bigoted Conspiracy Theorist Who Called For Killing 100 Million Muslims*

*Trump Attends Closed Event With Michael Savage And Newsmax CEO Who Criticized Reince Priebus For "Weakness"*

*ALEX KAPLAN *February 21, 2017

President Donald Trump spent time over the Presidents’ Day weekend in the company of right-wing media figures who have a history of pushing anti-Muslim bigotry and conspiracy theories.

At a private event at his Florida property, Mar-a-Lago, on February 18, Trump met with Newsmax CEO Chris Ruddy and radio host Michael Savage. Savage, whose wife Janet Weiner is a member of Mar-a-Lago, tweeted a photo of the get-together, writing, “PRES. TRUMP THANKS SAVAGE FOR VICTORY! W/ CHRIS RUDDY NEWSMAX! Mar-a-Lago.”


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/833158147309178880
*Savage, a conspiracy theorist with an extensive history of bigotry, was an early backer of Trump’s campaign and said last February that he was “the architect of Trump’s messaging.” In 2006, Savage called for “kill[ing] 100 million” Muslims. Following the terrorist attacks in Brussels, Belgium, in March 2016, Savage asked Trump to consider “closing the radical mosques in America.” In December, Savage mocked Muslim-Americans worried about Trump’s election, suggested Muslim immigrants came here “to stab people in the street, jump the curb with a car and run them over,” and argued that if you “interpret” the Quran “literally, you'll wind up cutting everyone's throat, blowing things up, and killing children.” Savage was also a birther, like Trump, who said Obama’s birth certificate was not valid, and claimed that Obama was gearing up to “fight a war against white people” and that Obama was engaging in “genocide” against white people. *He has demanded a “revolution” in response to multiculturalism.

Savage regularly hosted Trump on his program throughout his campaign, and Trump has thanked him for being “amazing,” “really nice,” and “so loyal.” Last year after Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia died, Trump went on Savage’s show and questioned whether Scalia had been murdered. Savage claimed that Scalia "was found dead under suspicious circumstances,” and Trump said that "they found a pillow on his face, which is a pretty unusual place to find a pillow.”

In 2008, Savage claimed that autism was “a fraud” because “in 99 percent of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out.” Savage also has claimed that former President Barack Obama wanted “to infect the nation with Ebola,” attacked those with PTSD as “weak” and “narcissistic” “losers,” claimed lesbians are “jealous that they don't have an AIDS epidemic that they can cash in on,” and suggested that seltzer water and its “little bubbles of carbon dioxide” have driven liberals to “insanity.” More recently, Savage said in Decemberthat homeless people were “bums” and that the word “homeless” was “a construct of the radical left.” Trump has said that America would get “common sense” if Savage headed the National Institutes of Health (NIH). 

Ruddy, a longtime personal friend of Trump’s and the CEO of Newsmax, said in 2011 that _Media Matters_ was “right” that Newsmax was an “early and enthusiastic promoter of Trump's presidential ambitions.” The website also repeatedly pushed the false claim that Obama’s birth certificate was not real. Ruddy himself said in 2009 that while there was “no evidence" Obama wasn't born in the United States, "there's some legitimate issues involving the birth certificate." Earlier this month, Ruddy criticized Trump’s chief of staff, Reince Priebus, saying there’s “a lot of weakness coming out of the chief of staff."

Another radio host, Laura Ingraham, who also was in Florida with Trump, shared the same photo on Twitter of the Mar-a-Lago event as Savage. *Ingraham, a staunch supporter of Trump and one of Trump’s initial considerations for press secretary, has a history of using xenophobic rhetoric, such as claiming that Mexicans “have come here to murder and rape our people,” suggesting that northern Virginia is “a problem” because of an “illegal immigrant population” and “mosques going up,” and saying that she doesn’t “think of Jewish people as minorities because they're so successful.”* Earlier this month, she speculated about whether former national security adviser Michael Flynn’s resignation, which came after he lied about discussing Russian sanctions with a Russian ambassador, was due to a “setup” by “neoconservatives.”


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## RabzonKhan

Candidate Trump: “I would rarely leave the White House because there’s so much work to be done,” Trump, 69, tells ITK. "I would not be a president who took vacations. I would not be a president that takes time off.” 

Pres. Trump: will once again spend the weekend at his Florida private club, as his 4th straight taxpayer funded trip will set a record by spending more money on travel in a month than former President Obama spent in a year. 

What a hypocrite, SAD! 


*Trump Waste Of Taxpayer Money Sets A New Record With 4th Weekend Trip To Florida
*
By Jason Easley Feb 23rd, 2017

President Trump will once again spend the weekend at his Florida private club, as his 4th straight taxpayer funded trip will set a record by spending more money on travel in a month than former President Obama spent in a year.

Ken Vogel of Politico reported that Trump is heading back to Palm Beach, FL to meet with donors, “The party’s biggest donors are gathering in Palm Beach for a retreat organized by the Republican National Committee, and the president has been announced as the featured speaker, according to people with knowledge of the plans. A number of senior administration officials will also attend the retreat, the people familiar with the planning said, a key draw for the donors.”

*Taxpayers will now be paying for Donald Trump and senior administration officials to meet with Republican donors in Florida.* It is not a coincidence that the RNC is holding the donor retreat on the weekend in the same city as Trump’s private club.

When President Trump makes his fourth trip to his club in Florida, he will have spent more money on those trips alone ($13 million) than former President Obama spent during an entire year on travel ($12.1 million).

Trump’s recently complained that the country’s finances were a mess, and he promised to cut government waste and get the government’s finances cleaned up. If President Trump is serious about cutting government waste, his first move should be to stop taking needless trips to his winter vacation home at taxpayer expense.

The RNC could have held their retreat in the Washington, D.C., but that would have forced President Trump to spend a weekend in the nation’s capitol.

While he plans to take health care of millions of Americans, President Trump is living like a king on the taxpayers’ dime. 43,000 Americans will die each year if the ACA is repealed, but Trump will always make sure that the government has the cash to fly him to Florida. *Link*

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## F-22Raptor

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 379390
> 
> 
> 
> Candidate Trump: “I would rarely leave the White House because there’s so much work to be done,” Trump, 69, tells ITK. "I would not be a president who took vacations. I would not be a president that takes time off.”
> 
> Pres. Trump: will once again spend the weekend at his Florida private club, as his 4th straight taxpayer funded trip will set a record by spending more money on travel in a month than former President Obama spent in a year.
> 
> What a hypocrite, SAD!
> 
> 
> *Trump Waste Of Taxpayer Money Sets A New Record With 4th Weekend Trip To Florida
> *
> By Jason Easley Feb 23rd, 2017
> 
> President Trump will once again spend the weekend at his Florida private club, as his 4th straight taxpayer funded trip will set a record by spending more money on travel in a month than former President Obama spent in a year.
> 
> Ken Vogel of Politico reported that Trump is heading back to Palm Beach, FL to meet with donors, “The party’s biggest donors are gathering in Palm Beach for a retreat organized by the Republican National Committee, and the president has been announced as the featured speaker, according to people with knowledge of the plans. A number of senior administration officials will also attend the retreat, the people familiar with the planning said, a key draw for the donors.”
> 
> *Taxpayers will now be paying for Donald Trump and senior administration officials to meet with Republican donors in Florida.* It is not a coincidence that the RNC is holding the donor retreat on the weekend in the same city as Trump’s private club.
> 
> When President Trump makes his fourth trip to his club in Florida, he will have spent more money on those trips alone ($13 million) than former President Obama spent during an entire year on travel ($12.1 million).
> 
> Trump’s recently complained that the country’s finances were a mess, and he promised to cut government waste and get the government’s finances cleaned up. If President Trump is serious about cutting government waste, his first move should be to stop taking needless trips to his winter vacation home at taxpayer expense.
> 
> The RNC could have held their retreat in the Washington, D.C., but that would have forced President Trump to spend a weekend in the nation’s capitol.
> 
> While he plans to take health care of millions of Americans, President Trump is living like a king on the taxpayers’ dime. 43,000 Americans will die each year if the ACA is repealed, but Trump will always make sure that the government has the cash to fly him to Florida. *Link*



As I've said before, Trump is a liar and a hypocrite. It's clear that he can't handle the heat out of DC. I wonder who he'll be golfing with this weekend?

An while VP Pence and Secretaries Tillerson and Mattis are in foreign countries cleaning up his mess, he'll be on the green with god knows who. Trump is FOS....

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## F-22Raptor

So now the White House has asked the FBI to essentially cover up the Trump-Russia story. Trump is ridiculously close to breaking the law and impeachment territory. This is amazing to me, really.


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## cloud4000

F-22Raptor said:


> So now the White House has asked the FBI to essentially cover up the Trump-Russia story. Trump is ridiculously close to breaking the law and impeachment territory. This is amazing to me, really.



The White House has a whole team of lawyers to ensure POTUS follows the law. Everything he says, does, asks is vetted through these lawyers. Trump doesn't know he's only running the United States.


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## F-22Raptor

Watching Trump's CPAC speech now, and it sounds like yet another campaign speech. Fake news....bad dudes....election/Hillary....wall.....polls....promise after promise. Signing a bunch of symbolic executive orders means little in the long run Donald.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

Interesing times ahead


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## RabzonKhan

It is quite interesting to note that throughout during his campaign, Trump had criticized Obamacare and had promised to repeal and replace it on his first day in office. Well, it’s crystal clear that all the promises he made during the campaign were FAKE, since it’s been over a month now and it doesn’t look like Trump administration even has a plan to replace it, sad!









*Fake news? What about Trump’s fake promises?*
BY MIKE PURDY, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR - 02/25/17

After one month in office, President Donald Trump is still experiencing a steep learning curve, as he discovers that the business of governing is far more complicated than campaigning.

*There are strong indications that the president has not yet made the transition away from campaigning into acting presidential. On Feb. 18, he delivered his standard campaign stump speech to a crowd of 9,000 adoring fans in Florida. And the president continues to tweet “policy” pronouncements along with vitriolic attacks at all hours of the day — just like he did during the campaign. *

*Campaign mode enables a candidate to tear down and attack everything and everyone. Once in office, though, a president must proactively produce thoughtful results — not just blame others by whining that “I inherited a mess.” *

As Mario Cuomo once said “You campaign in poetry; you govern in prose.” But for Donald Trump, who is not known as a details guy, the details of governing that are part and parcel of the presidency has been somewhat of a shock to him. Of course, the Trump administration has been a shock to many Americans. 

*For all of President Trump’s dangerous and unsubstantiated attacks on the “dishonest media” for promoting “fake news,” it’s ironic that he has produced one fake deadline after another for his promise to repeal and replace ObamaCare.*

*His repeal schedule appears to be more bluster than strategy and seems to shift almost daily. Of course, one reason it has shifted so often is because — despite Trump’s branding of the Affordable Care Act as a “total disaster” — he and the Republican Party can’t agree on the details of a replacement plan that will still protect Americans’ healthcare coverage.*

Let’s examine Donald Trump’s shifting ObamaCare repeal and replace schedule. 

As a candidate, Trump’s website stated that “on day one of the Trump Administration, we will ask Congress to immediately deliver a full repeal of Obamacare.” Fake schedule — perhaps excusable as mere campaign poetry.

Just before the election, Trump proclaimed in Philadelphia on Nov. 1 that “When we win on Nov. 8 and elect a Republican Congress, we will be able to immediately repeal and replace Obamacare. We have to do it.” He continued by declaring that “I will ask Congress to convene a special session so we can repeal and replace” ObamaCare. Fake schedule — and Congress would already be in session. 

On Jan. 10, before his inauguration, the president-elect pontificated that there would be a repeal vote “probably sometime next week” and that a replacement of ObamaCare would occur “very quickly or simultaneously, very shortly thereafter.” Fake schedule and a misleading statement. 

The next day, the president-elect held a press conference in which he changed the schedule yet again.

This time he tied the introduction of the repeal and replace legislation to the Senate’s approval of Tom Price as his secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services. "We're going to be submitting,” Trump said, “as soon as he [Price] is approved, we'll almost simultaneously — shortly thereafter — have a plan. It will be repeal and replace. It will be simultaneously."

Price was confirmed on Feb. 10. Another fake schedule with no sign of actual legislation on the horizon. 

In an interview on Jan. 14, the president-elect again said he was waiting for Price’s confirmation, but that the legislation for repeal and replace was essentially done. “It’s very much formulated down to the final strokes. We haven’t put it in quite yet but we’re going to be doing it soon,” Trump said. Fake.

In a Feb. 5 interview on Fox News with Bill O’Reilly, the president backed off from his earlier optimistic schedule and statements that the legislation to repeal and replace ObamaCare was essentially written. He stated that “It statutorily takes a while to get. We’re going to be putting it in fairly soon. I think that yes, I would like to say by the end of the year — at least the rudiments — but we should have something within the year and the following year.”

Just weeks earlier, he’d indicated the legislation was already “formulated down to the final strokes.” But now the schedule had apparently slipped by up to a year. Another fake schedule. 

Finally, on Feb. 18, the president noted at a campaign-style rally in Florida that "We are going to be submitting in a couple of weeks a great healthcare plan that's going to take the place of the disaster known as ObamaCare." In less than two weeks, the schedule had shifted from being a year out to being ready in a couple of weeks. 

It remains to be seen whether he meets his latest deadline or if it just one more fake schedule based on the president’s wishful thinking rather than on a deliberate plan and strategy. It also remains to be seen whether the replacement legislation to ObamaCare honors his commitment in his November victory speech in which he declared that “I will be president for all Americans.” 

*The common thread in all of Donald Trump’s schedule announcements about the repeal and replacement of ObamaCare is the use of simple words: immediately, quickly, soon, in a couple of weeks. These and other simple words are a hallmark of his rhetoric.*

All new presidents have a steep learning curve. But, to be effective, President Trump must recognize that he is an apprentice — more so than any previous man who has ever assumed the office of the presidency — and he must apply himself to understanding the subtleties of complicated issues. He must pivot from being a bombastic campaigner to doing the challenging, intellectual work of governing based on facts and not gut impulses.

*Perhaps hardest of all for this president, who generally speaks only using very simple words, he must realize that words make a difference in articulating and explaining policies, and that governing is far more nuanced than reciting poetry.*



F-22Raptor said:


> As I've said before, Trump is a liar and a hypocrite. It's clear that he can't handle the heat out of DC. I wonder who he'll be golfing with this weekend?
> 
> An while VP Pence and Secretaries Tillerson and Mattis are in foreign countries cleaning up his mess, he'll be on the green with god knows who. Trump is FOS....


No doubt, he’s a walking talking disaster. It is nice to see that you have become quite active, keep up the good work, my friend.

Cheers!

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## RabzonKhan

Sen. Bernie just burned Trump.

He reminding Pres. Trump that the rally already happened at his inauguration and it was far smaller than Pres. Obama’s. Super! 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/835488569850494976


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## RabzonKhan

I think Democratic party made the right choice.

*Tom Perez elected as first Latino leader of Democratic Party*

By David Weigel February 25 20017

ATLANTA — Former Labor Secretary Tom Perez was elected as the first Latino chair of the Democratic National Committee on Saturday, defeating Rep. Keith Ellison at a contentious party meeting in Atlanta.

“With hard work and a hell of a lot of organizing, we will turn this party around,” Perez said before he had locked up enough votes to win 235 to 200 votes on a second ballot. *Read more*


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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> I think Democratic party made the right choice.
> 
> *Tom Perez elected as first Latino leader of Democratic Party*
> 
> By David Weigel February 25 20017
> 
> ATLANTA — Former Labor Secretary Tom Perez was elected as the first Latino chair of the Democratic National Committee on Saturday, defeating Rep. Keith Ellison at a contentious party meeting in Atlanta.
> 
> “With hard work and a hell of a lot of organizing, we will turn this party around,” Perez said before he had locked up enough votes to win 235 to 200 votes on a second ballot. *Read more*




I don't. It seems like the Democratic Party still hasn't learned its lessons....

Keith Ellison would have been the first Muslim head of the Democratic Party (though that's not why I supported him, obviously).

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## RabzonKhan

LA se Karachi said:


> I don't. It seems like the Democratic Party still hasn't learned its lessons....
> 
> Keith Ellison would have been the first Muslim head of the Democratic Party (though that's not why I supported him, obviously).


I’m not a Democrat my friend, it’s your party and you should know better, but don’t you think Keith Ellison was little controversial figure, he used to work for black-racist Louis Farrakhan, who called Judaism as a “gutter religion”, and never misses an opportunity to demonize whites.


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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> I think Democratic party made the right choice.
> 
> *Tom Perez elected as first Latino leader of Democratic Party*
> 
> By David Weigel February 25 20017
> 
> ATLANTA — Former Labor Secretary Tom Perez was elected as the first Latino chair of the Democratic National Committee on Saturday, defeating Rep. Keith Ellison at a contentious party meeting in Atlanta.
> 
> “With hard work and a hell of a lot of organizing, we will turn this party around,” Perez said before he had locked up enough votes to win 235 to 200 votes on a second ballot. *Read more*



*Perez appoints Ellison deputy DNC chair*
BY JESSE BYRNES - 02/25/17

Tom Perez used his first motion as chairman of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) on Saturday to appoint his top rival for the position, Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.), as deputy chair of the DNC.

"I would like to begin by making a motion, it is a motion that I have discussed with a good friend, and his name is Keith Ellison," Perez said during his acceptance speech, announcing the appointment.

"Did I hear a second?" asked Perez, the former Labor secretary during the Obama administration.

"Second!" the DNC audience shouted.

Ellison and Perez embraced. When Ellison took to the mic, he congratulated Perez for "successfully passing his first motion" and called on his supporters to back the new DNC chairman.

“We don’t have the luxury to walk out of this room divided,” Ellison said during his speech. “If we waste even a moment of going at it over who supported who, we are not going to be standing up for those people." *Read more*


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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> never misses an opportunity to demonize whites




That is an outright lie. Most of his district is White too. Where are you getting this from?



RabzonKhan said:


> I’m not a Democrat my friend, it’s your party and you should know better, but don’t you think Keith Ellison was little controversial figure, he used to work for black-racist Louis Farrakhan, who called Judaism as a “gutter religion"




Louis Farrakhan said those things, not Keith Ellison.

_"CNN's KFile reviewed Ellison's past writings and public statements during the late 1980s through the 1990s, which revealed his decade-long involvement in the Nation of Islam. However, none of the records reviewed found examples of Ellison making any anti-Semitic comments himself, and Ellison disavowed his early comments in 2006 after it became an issue during his run for Congress."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/01/politics/kfile-keith-ellison-nation-of-islam/_


Here's what Keith Ellison himself said about Farrakhan in a letter he wrote to the Jewish Community Relations Council of Minnesota & the Dakotas in 2006:
_
"I wrongly dismissed concerns that they [Farrakhan's remarks] were anti-Semitic. They were and are anti-Semitic and I should have come to that conclusion earlier than I did."

"I have long since distanced myself from and rejected the Nation of Islam due to its propagation of bigoted and anti-Semitic ideas and statements, as well as other issues. I have a deep and personal aversion to anti-Semitism regardless of its source, and I reject and condemn the anti-Semitic statements and actions of the Nation of Islam, Louis Farrakhan, and Khalid Muhammed."

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3Ds-8NoJgE1TkhUOVpKbE1lam9hbjJYdm8xb0pEcmZrSnN3/preview

_
Many Jewish Leaders endorsed him too:
_
"Some 300 Jewish community leaders have signed a letter in support of Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., who is running to serve as head of the Democratic National Committee.

About 100 rabbis are among the signatories, most of them noted liberals, to the letter that was issued ahead of the DNC-sponsored regional candidate forum in Phoenix on Saturday. The letter states that it is not an endorsement of Ellison for DNC chair, but rather “a call to reject the unfair and baseless accusations some have leveled at him.”

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/300-Jewish-leaders-sign-letter-supporting-Rep-Keith-Ellison-478580

_
So did Chuck Schumer, the Jewish (and very pro-Israel, establishment Democratic) Minority Leader of the Senate.



RabzonKhan said:


> don’t you think Keith Ellison was little controversial figure, he used to work for black-racist Louis Farrakhan




Also, remember Reverend Jeremiah Wright, who said things like this?

_"The government gives them [African Americans] the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

"After September 11, 2001, he said: "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back into our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/DemocraticDebate/story?id=4443788&page=1

_
Here's how the Obama campaign responded at the time:
_
"In a statement to ABCNews.com, Obama's press spokesman Bill Burton said, "Sen. Obama has said repeatedly that personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they're offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church. Sen. Obama does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Sen. Obama deeply disagrees. But now that he is retired, that doesn't detract from Sen. Obama's affection for Rev. Wright or his appreciation for the good works he has done."

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/DemocraticDebate/story?id=4443788&page=1_

Do you think Obama was so "controversial" too?


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## T-72M1

lol no gaffes, good address by President Trump.

he's allrite, give him a chance, people.


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## F-22Raptor

T-72M1 said:


> lol no gaffes, good address by President Trump.
> 
> he's allrite, give him a chance, people.



I'd like nothing more than to see Trump succeed as our President, but when he and his administration lie to the American people almost on a daily basis and this Trump-Russia connection gets dirtier by the day, it's hard to.
An he needs to drop the "fake news" and "enemy of the American people" crap, because it's stupid as all hell. It's only fake to Donald because his massive ego can't take the heat, and everyone except his worshippers know it.

Hopefully we won't have to listen to another campaign speech on Tuesday night when he addresses Congress.

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## cloud4000

LA se Karachi said:


> I don't. It seems like the Democratic Party still hasn't learned its lessons....
> 
> Keith Ellison would have been the first Muslim head of the Democratic Party (though that's not why I supported him, obviously).



Keith Ellison is perceived to be anti-Israel and pro-Palestinean , which caused a lot of consternation for some Democrats. Law Professor Alan Dershowitz threatened to leave the Democrats if he was chosen. In fact, the progressive wing of the Democrats, led by Bernie Sanders, are considered anti-Israel...actually anti-Zionist. 

Interesting how even among Democratic circles there are splits along racial and s religious lines.

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## LA se Karachi

cloud4000 said:


> Keith Ellison is perceived to be anti-Israel and pro-Palestinean , which caused a lot of consternation for some Democrats.




That wasn't the main the issue here. It was more about the establishment vs. the younger (under 55) and more progressive, economically-focused wing of the party that supported Bernie Sanders in the primary (younger people, rural voters, independents, the working and middle class, etc.).

Keith Ellison endorsed Bernie Sanders in the primary, and shared a similar outlook on the issues and the future of the party. Tom Perez supports the TTP, for example (Ellison does not). 



cloud4000 said:


> Law Professor Alan Dershowitz threatened to leave the Democrats if he was chosen.




So, who cares?



cloud4000 said:


> In fact, the progressive wing of the Democrats, led by Bernie Sanders, are considered anti-Israel...actually anti-Zionist.




Less pro-Israel, yes. However, both Keith Ellison and Bernie Sanders have declared Hamas to be a terrorist organization, and called it the biggest obstacle to peace in the conflict. Look up some videos of Bernie Sanders. They are just also very insistent on a Palestinian state too, and don't overlook Israel constant settlement-bulding. 

Also, Chuck Schumer (along with many Jewish leaders) endorsing Ellison over Perez was a pretty big deal. He is the second most powerful Democrat in Washington now, and an experienced establishment (and less liberal) figure from New York City who is Jewish himself and very pro-Israel. 



cloud4000 said:


> Interesting how even among Democratic circles there are splits along racial and s religious lines.




I'm not quite sure what this means. Democrats are pretty united, ideologically:







A bit more united than Republicans, in fact:






_http://www.people-press.org/2016/06/22/5-views-of-parties-positions-on-issues-ideologies/_

Polls have also consistently shown ethnic minorities (all of them) to be significantly more liberal than the population as a whole. If you are referring to the Democratic Primary, the biggest dividing factor by far was age, not race. The average age of a Sanders supporter was about 45. While the average Clinton supporter was well into their 60s. Age was the single biggest predictor of how someone would vote. 

As for religious division in the Democratic Party, there isn't much of one. Even with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the dividing factor is again age.

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## F-22Raptor

Check out Trump and his administrations "First 100 Lies."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-administration-lies-100_us_58ac7a0fe4b02a1e7dac3ca6

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## cloud4000

LA se Karachi said:


> That wasn't the main the issue here. It was more about the establishment vs. the younger (under 55) and more progressive, economically-focused wing of the party that supported Bernie Sanders in the primary (younger people, rural voters, independents, the working and middle class, etc.).
> 
> Keith Ellison endorsed Bernie Sanders in the primary, and shared a similar outlook on the issues and the future of the party. Tom Perez supports the TTP, for example (Ellison does not).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, who cares?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Less pro-Israel, yes. However, both Keith Ellison and Bernie Sanders have declared Hamas to be a terrorist organization, and called it the biggest obstacle to peace in the conflict. Look up some videos of Bernie Sanders. They are just also very insistent on a Palestinian state too, and don't overlook Israel constant settlement-bulding.
> 
> Also, Chuck Schumer (along with many Jewish leaders) endorsing Ellison over Perez was a pretty big deal. He is the second most powerful Democrat in Washington now, and an experienced establishment (and less liberal) figure from New York City who is Jewish himself and very pro-Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not quite sure what this means. Democrats are pretty united, ideologically:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A bit more united than Republicans, in fact:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _http://www.people-press.org/2016/06/22/5-views-of-parties-positions-on-issues-ideologies/_
> 
> Polls have also consistently shown ethnic minorities (all of them) to be significantly more liberal than the population as a whole. If you are referring to the Democratic Primary, the biggest dividing factor by far was age, not race. The average age of a Sanders supporter was about 45. While the average Clinton supporter was well into their 60s. Age was the single biggest predictor of how someone would vote.
> 
> As for religious division in the Democratic Party, there isn't much of one. Even with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the dividing factor is again age.



You make good points, as usual. You are so much smarter than I am. 

You are right that the Israel-Palestinian issue was not the main issue, but it was a litmus test for some. This is the reason I raised the name of Alan Dershowitz, who represents many who want the Democrats to be clearly pro-Israel. I think this could be a contributing, but not decisive, factor in Perez being chosen instead of Ellison.

As for the Democrats being ideologically united, I don't know given what we've saw in 2016 elections, from primary to general election. Sanders' and Clinton's supporters were really fighting it out and many Sanders voted to stay home than vote for Clinton. I personally think there are deeper issues within the Democratic Party.

The election of Perez says to me that the party is, for the moment, in the hands of Clinton supporters, but their hold is tenuous, at best. Unless the make advances in mid-term elections, I believe Perez will fall and Ellison will be given the chance. That Perez is head of DNC and Ellison as deputy, will show a united front, but there will be plenty of friction behind the scenes, especially on certain policy issues. 

I may be wrong. Nevertheless, I'm old enough to remember that Democrats were controlled by progressives, especially during the 1980s. But the fall of communism, and the discrediting of socialism, the Clintons made the Democrats lurch to the right with pro-business, pro-trade policies. Now we are seeing a lurch back to the left.

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## LA se Karachi

cloud4000 said:


> You make good points, as usual. You are so much smarter than I am.




You made me blush . I wouldn't say I'm smarter than you. Just more knowledgeable about US politics, perhaps. I think you're one of the smarter people on this forum.



cloud4000 said:


> You are right that the Israel-Palestinian issue was not the main issue, but it was a litmus test for some. This is the reason I raised the name of Alan Dershowitz, who represents many who want the Democrats to be clearly pro-Israel. I think this could be a contributing, but not decisive, factor in Perez being chosen instead of Ellison.




Well, you are right that there is a bit of disagreement within the Democratic Party on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Younger Democrats tend to be more "pro-Palestine", and older Democrats tend to be more "pro-Israel". However, even among older Democrats, there has been a noticeable shift on the issue as it becomes increasingly clear that Israel isn't really interested in a two state solution.

As for the DNC race, it was a minor factor. But both the narrative, and the maneuvering behind the scenes, suggested that this was an establishment vs. grassroots contest.



cloud4000 said:


> As for the Democrats being ideologically united, I don't know given what we've saw in 2016 elections, from primary to general election. Sanders' and Clinton's supporters were really fighting it out and many Sanders voted to stay home than vote for Clinton. I personally think there are deeper issues within the Democratic Party.




Well, you're absolutely right about that. Note the North-South divide in the primary (Green=Sanders, Gold=Clinton):







As for the issues, there is mostly agreement. However, the problem seems to be one of emphasis. The "Sanders-wing" of the party is focused most on economic issues, strongly emphasizing income growth for the middle and working classes. This movement has proven very popular with political independents, Midwesterners, Westerners, swing voters, younger votes, working-class whites, and less political voters. 

It's no coincidence that Hillary performed worst in the areas that Bernie performed best in during the primaries. This platform gives the party the most support. Both for President, and down-ballot.



cloud4000 said:


> The election of Perez says to me that the party is, for the moment, in the hands of Clinton supporters, but their hold is tenuous, at best. Unless the make advances in mid-term elections, I believe Perez will fall and Ellison will be given the chance. That Perez is head of DNC and Ellison as deputy, will show a united front, but there will be plenty of friction behind the scenes, especially on certain policy issues.




Correct. If Democrats do not emphasize economic issues enough (and take the right positions), or do not do an effective enough of a job of communicating their message, they will not be able to fully utilize the political gift that is Trump.



cloud4000 said:


> I may be wrong. Nevertheless, I'm old enough to remember that Democrats were controlled by progressives, especially during the 1980s. But the fall of communism, and the discrediting of socialism, the Clintons made the Democrats lurch to the right with pro-business, pro-trade policies. Now we are seeing a lurch back to the left.




Correct, the changing economic situation that began in the 1980s has resulted in a shift in the political outlook on economic issues by many Americans.

This is what happened:



















And this is how people feel about it:






















Minimum wage increase:






The path of victory for the Democratic Party is very clear, but they have to choose it.

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## خره مينه لګته وي

*Trump blames Obama for town hall protests and security leaks*

US President Donald Trump has said he believes Barack Obama is behind a wave of protests against Republican lawmakers, and national security leaks.

He told Fox News: "I think President Obama's behind it because his people are certainly behind it", but added: "I also think it's just politics."

Mr Trump offered no evidence for his claims and his predecessor in the White House has not commented.

The president also spoke about his budget plans and other issues.

President Trump's interview was broadcast hours before he is due to give his first address to a joint session of Congress.

A senior White House official told the BBC the president would talk about a "renewal of the American spirit", offering an "optimistic vision".

In the speech he is expected to set out in greater detail his plans to cut spending and boost the economy.

Mr Trump has said his proposal to increase the defence budget by $54bn (£43bn) would be paid for by a "revved up economy".

The foreign aid purse and the environmental department face a squeeze to pay for it, but analysts are doubtful the spending promises can be kept without increasing the deficit.

The president said he would get "more product for our buck" in terms of buying military hardware and would ask for a "form of reimbursement" from countries making use of the US military.

*In other developments:*


Mr Trump is to sign an executive order that reviews an Obama-era rule protecting waterways from development and pollution
He said he would be a "hypocrite" if he attended the White House Correspondents' Dinner, given his difficult relationship with the media
More than 120 retired military officers have sent a letter to lawmakers urging them to keep funding for diplomacy, saying it prevents conflict
Billionaire Wilbur Ross is the new commerce secretary, having taken the oath of office
In the Fox News interview, Mr Trump was asked about the protests faced by some Republican politicians at town hall meetings across the country.

He said he was certain Obama loyalists were behind both those protests and White House leaks.

"In terms of him being behind things, that's politics. And it will probably continue," he added.

He was asked for more detail on how he would find the money for the 10% increase in military spending he has proposed for 2018. Proposed cuts elsewhere are unlikely to cover the proposed increase.

*Which Trump will show up? Anthony Zurcher, BBC News, Washington*
An address to Congress is a different kind of presidential speech. Will the American public see a different Donald Trump?

If history is any guide, that seems unlikely. Every time there has been talk of a pivot or shift of focus for candidate Trump, or president-elect Trump, or President Trump, the end result has been the same Donald Trump as always - blustering and belligerent, unvarnished and unapologetic.

Mr Trump would be well-served to take a different tack tonight, however. While he's spent his first month in office in a blizzard of activity, issuing executive orders and squelching controversies, there's been little progress with his agenda in Congress.

Top-line items like tax cuts and healthcare reform will be heavy legislative lifts with a balky conservative caucus in the House and a narrow Republican majority in the Senate, requiring presidential leadership of a kind not yet demonstrated by Mr Trump.

Recent opinion polls have shown the president's standing with the public improving after a dismal first few weeks, but any progress can quickly evaporate if his "man of action" bravado runs headfirst into congressional obstinance.

Tuesday night's speech is the president's first major opportunity to avoid that outcome.

The White House sent Mr Trump's 2018 budget blueprint, which begins on 1 October, to federal agencies on Monday.

The agencies will then review the plan and propose changes to the cuts as the White House prepares for negotiations with Congress.

The Republican-controlled Congress must approve any federal spending.

Mr Trump's plan is expected to face a backlash from Democrats and some Republicans over the planned cuts to domestic programmes.






http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39113446


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> Even though, Donald Trump is leading in all polls so far, but his chances of getting Republican nomination is quite bleak.



Trip down memory lane for me

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## CBU-105

Nilgiri said:


> Trip down memory lane for me


whole thread is a great read leading up to Nov 8, anti/never Trumpers ki proper hawa nikal gayi thi.

also, caught bits of his congressional address,



, very presidential, and no one heckled like some were saying, even Pocahontas was applauding bits of it.

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## F-22Raptor

I thought Trump did a good job tonight. It might be his best speech to date. When he sticks to the issues, he's not to bad. When he goes off on his tangents about fake news, the election was rigged, and all the other crap he's a total train wreck. I hope the Donald Trump we saw tonight is what what we get moving forward. I'm not holding my breath though.

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## cloud4000

F-22Raptor said:


> I thought Trump did a good job tonight. It might be his best speech to date. When he sticks to the issues, he's not to bad. When he goes off on his tangents about fake news, the election was rigged, and all the other crap he's a total train wreck. I hope the Donald Trump we saw tonight is what what we get moving forward. I'm not holding my breath though.



Surprising what the man can do if he sticks to a script and stops free-lancing. He would accomplish so much more and people would take him more seriously. The key will be if he's learning or will he revert to being the same old Donald.

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## RabzonKhan

Must watch, Bernie Sanders’ brilliant response to Trumps speech to Congress.
Sanders criticized Trump for leaving out important issues, especially Medicare and Medicaid. He also criticized him for breaking his pledge to “drain the swamp”.




DNC chair Perez and vice chair Ellison comment on President Trump's speech:










LA se Karachi said:


> That is an outright lie. Most of his district is White too. Where are you getting this from?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Louis Farrakhan said those things, not Keith Ellison.
> 
> _"CNN's KFile reviewed Ellison's past writings and public statements during the late 1980s through the 1990s, which revealed his decade-long involvement in the Nation of Islam. However, none of the records reviewed found examples of Ellison making any anti-Semitic comments himself, and Ellison disavowed his early comments in 2006 after it became an issue during his run for Congress."
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/01/politics/kfile-keith-ellison-nation-of-islam/_
> 
> 
> Here's what Keith Ellison himself said about Farrakhan in a letter he wrote to the Jewish Community Relations Council of Minnesota & the Dakotas in 2006:
> _
> "I wrongly dismissed concerns that they [Farrakhan's remarks] were anti-Semitic. They were and are anti-Semitic and I should have come to that conclusion earlier than I did."
> 
> "I have long since distanced myself from and rejected the Nation of Islam due to its propagation of bigoted and anti-Semitic ideas and statements, as well as other issues. I have a deep and personal aversion to anti-Semitism regardless of its source, and I reject and condemn the anti-Semitic statements and actions of the Nation of Islam, Louis Farrakhan, and Khalid Muhammed."
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3Ds-8NoJgE1TkhUOVpKbE1lam9hbjJYdm8xb0pEcmZrSnN3/preview
> 
> _
> Many Jewish Leaders endorsed him too:
> _
> "Some 300 Jewish community leaders have signed a letter in support of Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., who is running to serve as head of the Democratic National Committee.
> 
> About 100 rabbis are among the signatories, most of them noted liberals, to the letter that was issued ahead of the DNC-sponsored regional candidate forum in Phoenix on Saturday. The letter states that it is not an endorsement of Ellison for DNC chair, but rather “a call to reject the unfair and baseless accusations some have leveled at him.”
> 
> http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/300-Jewish-leaders-sign-letter-supporting-Rep-Keith-Ellison-478580
> 
> _
> So did Chuck Schumer, the Jewish (and very pro-Israel, establishment Democratic) Minority Leader of the Senate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, remember Reverend Jeremiah Wright, who said things like this?
> 
> _"The government gives them [African Americans] the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
> 
> "After September 11, 2001, he said: "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back into our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/DemocraticDebate/story?id=4443788&page=1
> 
> _
> Here's how the Obama campaign responded at the time:
> _
> "In a statement to ABCNews.com, Obama's press spokesman Bill Burton said, "Sen. Obama has said repeatedly that personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they're offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church. Sen. Obama does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Sen. Obama deeply disagrees. But now that he is retired, that doesn't detract from Sen. Obama's affection for Rev. Wright or his appreciation for the good works he has done."
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/DemocraticDebate/story?id=4443788&page=1_
> 
> Do you think Obama was so "controversial" too?


I was talking about racist Louis Farrakhan, sorry if I was not clear enough, anyhow, as I said, I’m not a Democrat and quite frankly I’m not interested in the nitty-gritty of Democratic Party’s politics.

But I hope Democrats can focus on what unites them, hint,



Nilgiri said:


> Trip down memory lane for me


Very funny, maybe you missed it, but I also said: “No one knows the answer to that question, too far out to tell.”

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## RabzonKhan

Well, well, well, Trump’s Atty. Gen. Jeff Sessions has been caught lying, (thanks to the Washington Post, one of the best *Link*), not once, but twice, he lied to Sen. Al Franken and to Sen. Patrick Leahy at his confirmation hearing.

Sen. Al Franken asked Jeff Sessions, “if there was any evidence that anyone affiliated with Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what would you do?”

Sessions replied, “I’m not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and *I did not have communication with the Russians*.”

Al Franken Questions Jeff Sessions On Russia:





A questionnaire from Sen. Patrick Leahy, asked Jeff Sessions, “several President-elect’s nominees or senior advisers have Russian ties. Have you been in contact with anyone connected to any part of the Russian government about the 2016 election, either before or after election day?”

Jeff Sessions answered, “no”. 

Even though, Sessions has announced that he will recuse himself from any Russian probe, I think that is not enough, he has lied under oath....he should resign.

No matter how much Trump administration and the Republican Party tries to cover up, but this issue is going nowhere, there is something very fishy. To really find out what the heck is going on, Congress should appoint a special prosecutor to investigate potential ties between Trump and Russia.





Tiny hands!

Trump used two hands to drink a glass of water. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/836779213298544640

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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> Tiny hands!
> 
> Trump used two hands to drink a glass of water.


classic sign of the nerves, body language 101. 

He delivered quite well though, addressed the recent news about some of the anti semitic and hate crime stuff, said he'll work with allies in the muslim world to stop the radicals.. and had a powerful moment with the poor widow of that fallen DEVGRU SEAL. 

I thought it was very classy and charismatic of him to comfort her with that 'joke' or whatever you call it, people do that at funerals, it's a normal human comforting someone who's hurting badly thing. I found that fat pig Michael Moore's remarks quite deplorable. 

Van Jones' initial remarks were telling, he spoke the truth while under the influence of the shock that President Trump had delivered by being so Presidential, too bad they bullied the shit out of him to later say "the virus is mutating" or something  but it is, he's quickly learning on the job and easing into the statesman's role he needs to fulfill. 

Good stuff, on an interview on Fox' _fox and friends _earlier that day he'd graded himself a 'C' on messaging and said he's going to change it with the speech.

I don't think he's going anywhere till he serves his 2 terms proper, it's almost a given already. He's not perfect (nobody is) but he's not a nazi, and he's certainly not a 'gift' to his political opponents and enemies, he's a jack in the box real venomous viper cobra hybrid 'gift'.

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## ptldM3

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 381354
> 
> 
> 
> Well, well, well, Trump’s Atty. Gen. Jeff Sessions has been caught lying, (thanks to the Washington Post, one of the best *Link*), not once, but twice, he lied to Sen. Al Franken and to Sen. Patrick Leahy at his confirmation hearing.
> 
> Sen. Al Franken asked Jeff Sessions, “if there was any evidence that anyone affiliated with Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what would you do?”
> 
> Sessions replied, “I’m not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and *I did not have communication with the Russians*.”
> 
> Al Franken Questions Jeff Sessions On Russia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A questionnaire from Sen. Patrick Leahy, asked Jeff Sessions, “several President-elect’s nominees or senior advisers have Russian ties. Have you been in contact with anyone connected to any part of the Russian government about the 2016 election, either before or after election day?”
> 
> Jeff Sessions answered, “no”.
> 
> Even though, Sessions has announced that he will recuse himself from any Russian probe, I think that is not enough, he has lied under oath....he should resign.
> 
> No matter how much Trump administration and the Republican Party tries to cover up, but this issue is going nowhere, there is something very fishy. To really find out what the heck is going on, Congress should appoint a special prosecutor to investigate potential ties between Trump and Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tiny hands!
> 
> Trump used two hands to drink a glass of water.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/836779213298544640




I'm hoping for your sake and dignity you are drunk because I find it hard to believe a sober person can be this foolish. The democrat sock puppet asked Sessions if he had contacts with Russians during the campaign. He truthfully answer no. He met with the Russian embassador 2 times prior to being involved with the Trump campaign but that is not what was asked and it was not a secret he met with the embassador, there was 49 other embassador when Sessions spoke with Kislyak about gulf and grandchildren at a convention in plain view. I also didn't know it was illegal to communicate with Russian diplomats, if that's the case, the Obama administration is guilty but of course its the job of senators to speak to foreign dignitaries and diplomats.

Funny thing is many democrats also met with that same Russian embassador. The democrats are malicious and desperate, basically they are doing everything in there power to derail the Trump administration even causing this drama. It's no secret that Sessions met with the Russian embassador, it was part of his job but the democrats worded the question in a way that will make Sessions look bad and since most liberals are brain dead morons that just riot over everything. The democrats are hoping that stupid liberals fall for the false narrative and fake news and start riots hoping to destroy the administration.


By the way, where were you when the Eric Holder lied? When there is real lying by democrats they play it off but like to play word games with others and accuse the Republicans of lying when they are in fact telling the truth.


Same Russian embassador that Sessions spoke with is seen sitting and talking with democrats:

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## F-22Raptor

Inside Trump’s fury: The president rages at leaks, setbacks and accusations


President Trump spent the weekend at “the winter White House,” Mar-a-Lago, the secluded Florida castle where he is king. The sun sparkles off the glistening lawn and warms the russet clay Spanish tiles, and the steaks are cooked just how he likes them (well done). His daughter Ivanka and son-in-law Jared Kushner — celebrated as calming influences on the tempestuous president — joined him. But they were helpless to contain his fury.

Trump was mad — steaming, raging mad.

Trump’s young presidency has existed in a perpetual state of chaos. The issue of Russia has distracted from what was meant to be his most triumphant moment: his address last Tuesday to a joint session of Congress. And now his latest unfounded accusation — that Barack Obama tapped Trump’s phones during last fall’s campaign — had been denied by the former president and doubted by both allies and fellow Republicans.

When Trump ran into Christopher Ruddy on the golf course and later at dinner Saturday, he vented to his friend. “This will be investigated,” Ruddy recalled Trump telling him. “It will all come out. I will be proven right.”

“He was pissed,” said Ruddy, the chief executive of Newsmax, a conservative media company. “I haven’t seen him this angry.”

Trump enters week seven of his presidency the same as the six before it: enmeshed in controversy while struggling to make good on his campaign promises. At a time when White House staffers had sought to ride the momentum from Trump’s speech to Congress and begin advancing its agenda on Capitol Hill, the administration finds itself beset yet again by disorder and suspicion.

At the center of the turmoil is an impatient president increasingly frustrated by his administration’s inability to erase the impression that his campaign was engaged with Russia, to stem leaks about both national security matters and internal discord and to implement any signature achievements.

This account of the administration’s tumultuous recent days is based on interviews with 17 top White House officials, members of Congress and friends of the president, many of whom requested anonymity to speak candidly.

Gnawing at Trump, according to one of his advisers, is the comparison between his early track record and that of Obama in 2009, when amid the Great Recession he enacted an economic stimulus bill and other big-ticket items.

Trump’s team is trying again to reboot this week, with the president expected to sign a new executive order Monday implementing an entry ban for some countries after the initial one was blocked in federal court. The administration also intends to introduce a legislative plan later in the week to repeal and replace Obama’s health-care law, officials said.

The rest of Trump’s legislative plan, from tax reform to infrastructure spending, is effectively on hold until Congress first tackles the Affordable Care Act.

White House legislative staffers concluded late last week that the administration was spinning in circles on the health-care plan, amid mounting criticism from conservatives that the administration was fumbling.

With Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price on the road with Vice President Pence, a decision was made: Mick Mulvaney, director of the Office of Management and Budget, would become the point person, though officials insisted Price had not been sidelined.

On Friday, Mulvaney convened a meeting at the Eisenhower Executive Office Building with top administration officials and senior staff of House and Senate leaders to hammer out the final details of the proposal to replace the Affordable Care Act.

“Mulvaney has been essential in helping us get health care over the finish line,” said Marc Short, the White House legislative affairs director.

On Capitol Hill, Price is seen by some Republicans as more knowledgeable about health-care policy than Mulvaney, given his experience as a physician and his time as chairman of the House Budget Committee. But Mulvaney benefits from the close relationships he has forged with Trump’s top advisers and with the House’s conservative wing.

Trump, meanwhile, has been feeling besieged, believing that his presidency is being tormented in ways known and unknown by a group of Obama-aligned critics, federal bureaucrats and intelligence figures — not to mention the media, which he has called “the enemy of the American people.”

That angst over what many in the White House call the “deep state” is fomenting daily, fueled by rumors and tidbits picked up by Trump allies within the intelligence community and by unconfirmed allegations that have been made by right-wing commentators. The “deep state” is a phrase popular on the right for describing entrenched networks hostile to Trump.

Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-
Calif.), an advocate of improved relations between the United States and Russia, said he has told friends in the administration that Trump is being punished for clashing with the hawkish approach toward Russia that is shared by most Democrats and Republicans.

“Remember what Dwight Eisenhower told us: There is a military-industrial complex. That complex still exists and has a lot of power,” he said. “It’s everywhere, and it doesn’t like how Trump is handling Russia. Over and over again, in article after article, it rears its head.”

The president has been seething as he watches round-the-clock cable news coverage. Trump recently vented to an associate that Carter Page, a onetime Trump campaign adviser, keeps appearing on television even though he and Trump have no significant relationship.

Stories from Breitbart News, the incendiary conservative website, have been circulated at the White House’s highest levels in recent days, including one story where talk-radio host Mark Levin accused the Obama administration of mounting a “silent coup,” according to several officials.

Stephen K. Bannon, the White House chief strategist who once ran Breitbart, has spoken with Trump at length about his view that the “deep state” is a direct threat to his presidency.

Advisers pointed to Bannon’s frequent closed-door guidance on the topic and Trump’s agreement as a fundamental way of understanding the president’s behavior and his willingness to confront the intelligence community — and said that when Bannon spoke recently about the “deconstruction of the administrative state,” he was also alluding to his aim of rupturing the intelligence community and its influence on the U.S. national security and foreign policy consensus.

Bannon’s view is shared by some top Republicans.

“It’s not paranoia at all when it’s actually happening. It’s leak after leak after leak from the bureaucrats in the [intelligence community] and former Obama administration officials — and it’s very real,” said Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. “The White House is absolutely concerned and is trying to figure out a systemic way to address what’s happening.”

The mood at the White House on Tuesday night was different altogether — jubilant. Trump returned from the Capitol shortly before midnight to find his staff assembled in the residence cheering him. Finally, they all thought, they had seized control. The president had even laid off Twitter outbursts — a small victory for a staff often unable to drive a disciplined message.

“He nailed it, and he knew it,” said Kellyanne Conway, counselor to the president.

The merriment came to a sudden end on Wednesday night, when The Washington Post first reported that Attorney General Jeff Sessions met with the Russian ambassador despite having said under oath at his Senate confirmation hearing that he had no contact with the Russians.

Inside the West Wing, Trump’s top aides were furious with the defenses of Sessions offered by the Justice Department’s public affairs division and felt blindsided that Sessions’s aides had not consulted the White House earlier in the process, according to one senior White House official.

The next morning, Trump exploded, according to White House officials. He headed to Newport News, Va., on Thursday for a splashy commander-in-chief moment. The president would trumpet his plan to grow military spending aboard the Navy’s sophisticated new aircraft carrier. But as Trump, sporting a bomber jacket and Navy cap, rallied sailors and shipbuilders, his message was overshadowed by Sessions.

Then, a few hours after Trump had publicly defended his attorney general and said he should not recuse himself from the Russia probe, Sessions called a news conference to announce just that — amounting to a public rebuke of the president.

Back at the White House on Friday morning, Trump summoned his senior aides into the Oval Office, where he simmered with rage, according to several White House officials. He upbraided them over Sessions’s decision to recuse himself, believing that Sessions had succumbed to pressure from the media and other critics instead of fighting with the full defenses of the White House.

In a huff, Trump departed for Mar-a-Lago, taking with him from his inner circle only his daughter and Kushner, who is a White House senior adviser. His top two aides, Chief of Staff Reince Priebus and Bannon, stayed behind in Washington.

As reporters began to hear about the Oval Office meeting, Priebus interrupted his Friday afternoon schedule to dedicate more than an hour to calling reporters off the record to deny that the outburst had actually happened, according to a senior White House official.

“Every time there’s a palace intrigue story or negative story about Reince, the whole West Wing shuts down,” the official said.

Ultimately, Priebus was unable to kill the story. He simply delayed the bad news, as reports of Trump dressing down his staff were published by numerous outlets Saturday.

Trouble for Trump continued to spiral over the weekend. Early Saturday, he surprised his staff by firing off four tweets accusing Obama of a “Nixon/Watergate” plot to tap his Trump Tower phones in the run-up to last fall’s election. Trump cited no evidence, and Obama’s spokesman denied any such wiretap was ordered.

That night at Mar-a-Lago, Trump had dinner with Sessions, Bannon, Homeland Security Secretary John F. Kelly and White House senior policy adviser Stephen Miller, among others. They tried to put Trump in a better mood by going over their implementation plans for the travel ban, according to a White House official.

Trump was brighter Sunday morning as he read several newspapers, pleased that his allegations against Obama were the dominant story, the official said.

But he found reason to be mad again: Few Republicans were defending him on the Sunday political talk shows. Some Trump advisers and allies were especially disappointed in Sen. Marco Rubio (Fla.), who two days earlier had hitched a ride down to Florida with Trump on Air Force One.

Pressed by NBC’s Chuck Todd to explain Trump’s wiretapping claim, Rubio demurred.

“Look, I didn’t make the allegation,” he said. “I’m not the person that went out there and said it.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...22680e18d10_story.html?utm_term=.53b84bc2d5fd

Trump is an utter s**t show...

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## CBU-105

F-22Raptor said:


> Trump was brighter Sunday morning as he read several newspapers, pleased that his allegations against Obama were the dominant story, the official said.


lol, that read hilariously.  

but this is exactly the kind of yellow journalism/fake news that Trump's always railing against, what "sources" ? 

make what you want of the guy or his policies but he does have reason to be mad about the leaks, anyone in his position would.

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## Darmashkian

LA se Karachi said:


> I don't. It seems like the Democratic Party still hasn't learned its lessons....
> 
> Keith Ellison would have been the first Muslim head of the Democratic Party (though that's not why I supported him, obviously).


Both candidates seem bad to me,though I would choose Ellison to lead the Dems if I wanted victory for them.
He is a risky bet,but he seems smart & knows how to strengthen the party base.He is willing to go in a new direction & he recognized the fact that Trump could win pretty early.

i believe that Tom Vilsack could have helped to get back the forgotten rural dems back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...f8e0dd91dc7_story.html?utm_term=.af925a9070cb

=================================================================
Tom Perez brings nothing new to the table from what I can say.He has the establishment support+fundraisers behind him which HRC has. & the Latino head/representation card doesn't matter because to all those to whom it appeals already vote Dem.

Oh yes,wasn't he the* Secretary for Labour in Obama's administration*? Shouldn't some of the blame for white unionized workers abandoning the Dems which has has been going on since Obama won gone to him? Getting the support of the Union heads & managements does not matter much.They endorsed HRC & campaigned for her too, yet the white workers went for Trump.

& hasn't he been accused of being a race baiter & anti-white(which many cultural liberals & even white ones are). What a way to polarize white people away from you. Isn't that one other reason why the most unpopular guy to run for POTUS post WW2 won?

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...le-not-entitled-protection-voting-rights-act/

http://freebeacon.com/politics/5-sc...t-democrats-if-thomas-perez-is-their-vp-pick/ (read the black panther part)
http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/25/democrats-unify-around-shutting-down-white-people/

& he's not moderate to many people,he is a leftist idealogue as many conservatives see(& so do I)
https://capitalresearch.org/article...-be-near-the-top-of-hillary-clintons-vp-list/
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/445269/new-dnc-chairman-tom-perez-no-moderate-all
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Keith Ellison is a Muslim convert... that's enough to make lots of new conspiracy theories about him(Check Obama as reference;the present POTUS himself made numerous insinuations about him[He's a muslim??,He was not born here]etc).
Add to that his past is very shady. Allegations of being anti-white,anti-semitic,pro-Islamism etc...

https://thefederalist.com/2017/02/28/keith-ellison-wasnt-smeared-he-was-exposed/
http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/26/keith-ellison-once-proposed-making-a-separate-country-for-blacks/

I'm not going to get into any argument about him. Remember ,* "IN POLITICS- Perception matter more than facts" . *
& all these allegations+articles & Trump's tweets would have energized the Republican base & could have turned off independents.

BUT... wasn't Trump supposed to make HRC win. Infact during primary time her surrogates in the media gave him excessive coverage for this very reason with the belief that him as POTUS candidate will make HRC the POTUS!!

Repubs are thinking the same way about Ellison as Democrats thought about Trump-[They are screwed,LOL HRC will sweep the floor, 4 more years of the WH for us  ] & look what happened. =D

Ellison will only be DNC head,not the POTUS candidate.If he could have stayed in the shadows & focused on building the grassroots & wining the trust of the white working class which Bernie(who endorsed Ellison) got. Then perhaps Victory in 2020 would be possible. 

He did a good job strengthening the party in Minneapolis & winning the trust of voters & even non-voters who he encouraged to vote. He lives in Dem bastion but never takes his voters for granted & always spends time with them answering thei queries!

His 3000+ county strategy sounded good to me & was one which I saw could help the Dems nationally.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...y-in-dnc-bid/?utm_term=.e48e46d92619#comments
http://www.startribune.com/rep-ellison-hones-new-voter-turnout-strategy-for-democrats/363536691/
=====================================================================
Anyway Perez has a long way to unify the party. He has to get the moderates,the economic leftists,the cultural leftists, the union workers,Silicon valley,the liberal free market guys etc etc together.

& the way the DNC was biased against Bernie & the lack of repentance it has displayed since then doesn't help to unite the party & it also shows what they think of Bernie & his supporters

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/0...-backfired-and-democrats-began-bashing-perez/

Look at the comments in the videos below. Trump,the liberal MSM(exaggerating fake news media)+Bannon & everybody else will get them to vote for the Dems. But the same passion & hope which Obama created in them & got them to campaign & get voters out will be very tough for any "usual establishment person" to do.









Perez has a tough job ahead of him,but if he can gain the trust & loyalty of everyone then he can change things

@Nilgiri @T-72M1 What do you think?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CBU-105

Darmashkian said:


> What do you think?



I don't know man, not qualified to opine on the inner workings of the Democratic party, I'm a Trump watcher (and fan) but not that deep into US politics. 

@RabzonKhan @LA se Karachi and other murricans here probably have a better idea on it. 

I will say this though, the opposition there don't have an answer to Trump and are very unlikely to come up with a suitable contender to face him next time around either. The man is a relentless campaigner, and unlike other prominent right wing American leaders of the past, nobody can bully him by calling him racist, sexist etc, he'll get in the gutter and beat them to a pulp instead. 






he's no homophobe either





so that's another one of the left's favorite cultural weapons blunted and rendered useless. 

and because the mainstream media is so maniacally opposed to him, being a Trump supporter is becoming cool and the new counter culture for young people, easy to see why too. 

for god's sake, the guy took on the pope, and won ! 






so far so good, I just hope he doesn't march into Iran for Israel's sake or something stupid like that.


----------



## RabzonKhan

*Trump's 'Muslim Ban 2.0' is still the same flawed, un-American mess*
BY MARIA CARDONA, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR - 03/06/17

*Trump Muslim ban take two! Or you could call it a kinder, gentler Muslim ban. But make no mistake: It is a Muslim ban, no matter how much the Trump administration tries to wrap it in better legal reasoning, more docile language, and ribbon that screams national security.* 

Trump and his Muslim ban still have a huge uphill battle waiting for him simply because truth, reality, facts, his own quotes, and a country who yearns to uphold American values, are not on his side.

Let’s break down the difficulties Trump will face starting immediately:

*First and foremost, and incredibly damning, are the reports that intelligence analysts from Trump’s own DHS agency dispute Trump’s notion that these countries that are part of the ban pose a major threat to our national security. They found scant evidence that citizens from these countries are a danger to us.* 

In fact, DHS found that additional vetting before entry won’t make us safer because most foreign-born, U.S.-based violent extremists become radicalized after living in the U.S. for a number of years rather than being radicalized when they first arrive.

*Second, there is still that pesky fact that, from 9/11 through today, no immigrant or refugee from the countries included in the Muslim ban has ever successfully perpetrated a terror attack on U.S. soil that resulted in any deaths of American citizens.* 

*Trump’s team has expanded the notion to counter that there have been attempts by nationals of these countries to hurt Americans, and some have succeeded. Fair enough. This is where actual vetting (not banning), FBI, police and intelligence work comes into play and becomes more important than ever. *

And if the Trump administration’s reasoning continues to be the 9/11 terrorist attacks, then the burning question is why aren’t any of the countries whose citizens have perpetrated the most horrific acts of terror on our soil, part of the Muslim ban? Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Pakistan are all countries that people came from to do us harm in the U.S.

Could it be that Trump has major business dealings in these countries and he doesn’t want to do anything to harm those business relationships that continue to enrich him while he is in the Oval Office? We will never know since Trump refuses to release his tax returns. 

*Third, Trump is on the record from many times during the campaign saying he wants a complete ban on Muslims entering the country.* 

Period. 

*This was his intent from the beginning and he cannot escape the echo of his own campaign promise that excited his base, pushing many to a frenzied anti-Muslim bias that has sadly resulted in violence and hate crimes perpetrated against Muslim citizens and those who look like they might be Muslim. *

*To put it simply, Trump’s new version of the same ole’ Muslim ban seeks to codify bias, discrimination, fear and hatred against Muslims, and in essence helps validate some of his supporters’ anti-Muslim attitudes. You can’t get more un-American than that.* 

Fourth, the arbitrary nature of the list of countries in the ban is underscored by the removal of Iraq from the original list. I am glad they removed Iraq and Trump realized they are our allies, but it lays bare that the Trump administration is simply using the “Obama list” of countries that it designated as needing more vetting, as an excuse and not a real reason based on national security measures.

*Trump officials say that Iraq has enhanced their security procedures for vetting. That’s great! But is it true? They did that in three weeks, just since the last Muslim ban?* 

*In fact, Former DHS Deputy General Counsel Jonathan Meyer said “Taking Iraq off does harm the case for the travel ban” and “adds to the mounting evidence that this order is not based on risk-based policy-making.”

Reports state Iraq lobbied hard to get off the list, and Secretary Tillerson pushed Trump to take them off, again proving the capricious reasoning behind the list of Muslim countries included in the ban.* 

Fifth, the ban was supposed to be a matter of extremely “urgent national security.” Reince Priebus and Trump himself said the reason the first ban was done so quickly was so dangerous people could not sneak in with several days’ notice.

And yet, they have waited this long. Not to get it right, but apparently so Trump could enjoy more time in the positive after-glow of his so-called “presidential” speech before Congress from last Tuesday. I guess for this administration any positive press is more important than keeping Americans safe. 

Good to know where we stand.

*The new Muslim ban even has a phase-in period of 10 days. Aren’t they afraid some “bad hombres” will rush in? *

*Sixth, the Muslim ban, even though many of the courts have upheld our American values and prevented the first one from going into effect, has already had negative economic outcomes. There has since been a “devastating drop” in tourism and a 17 percent reduction in international flights to the U.S.*

And last but not least, the new “and improved” Muslim ban, just like the first Muslim ban, will not increase our national security. It will do exactly the opposite. 

*It puts us more at risk and makes us less safe, by allowing radical terrorist groups like ISIS to point to the Muslim ban as a reason Islam should be at war with the west. 

Trump’s insistence on the ban gives these groups a powerful recruiting tool that increases the chances of radicalization that can come from anywhere, including (and most likely) from inside the United States. 

We are not fighting terrorism with this ban. We are feeding it. *

Americans deserve better. We deserve a day when the president and the administration govern with facts, live in reality, listen to the experts, understand history, are rigorous in seeking out the truth, and ultimately legislates to continue making this country great. 

*Sadly, that day is not today, and that president is not Donald Trump. Link*

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## RabzonKhan

*Vermont Elects Nation’s First Muslim Party Chair, Sends ‘Strong Message to Trump’*

by ALEX SEITZ-WALD

Two days before the Trump administration rolled out the new version of what critics call a Muslim ban, Vermont Democrats elected the nation's first Muslim state party chairman.

*Faisal Gill, who was elected Saturday, said the decision of the Democratic State Committee to name him interim chair is a clear rebuke of Trump.

"To have a Muslim and immigrant to be the state party chair sends a really strong message to Trump and his type of politics that this is not where the country is at," he told NBC News.*

The White House released a new executive order Monday restricting travel from six Muslim-majority countries after a federal court halted an earlier version. Trump says the move is necessary for security, but Gill and other critics say it's merely an attempt to legally discriminate against Muslims.

*Gill is an outsider to ultra-white, ultra-liberal Vermont in more ways than one. In a state that is nearly 95 percent white, a Pakistani-born former Republican from Virginia stands out.*

"Us and Wyoming keep going back and forth for least diverse," Gill quipped.

*After emigrating to the U.S. and going to law school, Gill served five years in the Navy's JAG corps before entering Republican politics in Virginia. That led to a post in the Department of Homeland Security under George W. Bush.*

A clear majority *of Muslim-Americans had voted for Bush in 2000, finding a natural home in the socially conservative, pro-business GOP. And after the September 11 terror attacks, Bush went out of his way to preach tolerance for the racial minority.*

But Gill was a canary in the coalmine for a darker view of political Islam that crept into the party from its right flank, and eventually overtook it when Trump won the Republican nomination.

Far-right activists like Frank Gaffney, who last year denied reports that he was advising Trump, accused Gill of hiding ties to shady Muslim groups, which led to critical coverage on conservative blogs and Fox News and then, most importantly, letters from leading Republican Sens. Jon Kyl and Charles Grassley calling on DHS to investigate Gill.

*By the time the investigation was concluded, Gil was cleared of wrongdoing, but done with the Republican Party for good.*

Be became a Democrat and moved to California, where he volunteered on campaigns, before moving again to Vermont.

*"The Republican Party basically has embraced this intense level of hatred and, to me, it's no surprise that it led to Donald Trump," he said. "The Republican Party is just not a party that speaks to minorities anymore."*

Gill supported Bernie Sanders, Vermont's hometown hero, in the Democratic presidential primary last year and backed fellow Muslim Keith Ellison to be chairman of the Democratic National Committee this year. But he had to overcome a 29-year-old self-described "Berniecrat" to win the Vermont party chairmanship.

Ellison, a Minnesota congressman, would have been the first Muslim to lead a national party, but fell short in a vote this month to former Labor Sec. Tom Perez.

In a statement, Ellison also condemned Trump's new travel ban. "Let's not kid ourselves: the new Muslim Ban is still a Muslim Ban. Yes, it's lawyered up a bit, but that's all," he said.

Gill will have to run again for a full term as party chairman, and could face stiffer opposition next time in a state where Sanders wins elections by 3-to-1 margins. He's fairly new to the state and failed to win a Democratic primary for a state Senate seat last year. *Link*

@LA se Karachi, your views?


----------



## Nilgiri

Darmashkian said:


> Both candidates seem bad to me,though I would choose Ellison to lead the Dems if I wanted victory for them.
> He is a risky bet,but he seems smart & knows how to strengthen the party base.He is willing to go in a new direction & he recognized the fact that Trump could win pretty early.
> 
> i believe that Tom Vilsack could have helped to get back the forgotten rural dems back
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...f8e0dd91dc7_story.html?utm_term=.af925a9070cb
> 
> =================================================================
> Tom Perez brings nothing new to the table from what I can say.He has the establishment support+fundraisers behind him which HRC has. & the Latino head/representation card doesn't matter because to all those to whom it appeals already vote Dem.
> 
> Oh yes,wasn't he the* Secretary for Labour in Obama's administration*? Shouldn't some of the blame for white unionized workers abandoning the Dems which has has been going on since Obama won gone to him? Getting the support of the Union heads & managements does not matter much.They endorsed HRC & campaigned for her too, yet the white workers went for Trump.
> 
> & hasn't he been accused of being a race baiter & anti-white(which many cultural liberals & even white ones are). What a way to polarize white people away from you. Isn't that one other reason why the most unpopular guy to run for POTUS post WW2 won?
> 
> http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...le-not-entitled-protection-voting-rights-act/
> 
> http://freebeacon.com/politics/5-sc...t-democrats-if-thomas-perez-is-their-vp-pick/ (read the black panther part)
> http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/25/democrats-unify-around-shutting-down-white-people/
> 
> & he's not moderate to many people,he is a leftist idealogue as many conservatives see(& so do I)
> https://capitalresearch.org/article...-be-near-the-top-of-hillary-clintons-vp-list/
> http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/445269/new-dnc-chairman-tom-perez-no-moderate-all
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Keith Ellison is a Muslim convert... that's enough to make lots of new conspiracy theories about him(Check Obama as reference;the present POTUS himself made numerous insinuations about him[He's a muslim??,He was not born here]etc).
> Add to that his past is very shady. Allegations of being anti-white,anti-semitic,pro-Islamism etc...
> 
> https://thefederalist.com/2017/02/28/keith-ellison-wasnt-smeared-he-was-exposed/
> http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/26/keith-ellison-once-proposed-making-a-separate-country-for-blacks/
> 
> I'm not going to get into any argument about him. Remember ,* "IN POLITICS- Perception matter more than facts" . *
> & all these allegations+articles & Trump's tweets would have energized the Republican base & could have turned off independents.
> 
> BUT... wasn't Trump supposed to make HRC win. Infact during primary time her surrogates in the media gave him excessive coverage for this very reason with the belief that him as POTUS candidate will make HRC the POTUS!!
> 
> Repubs are thinking the same way about Ellison as Democrats thought about Trump-[They are screwed,LOL HRC will sweep the floor, 4 more years of the WH for us  ] & look what happened. =D
> 
> Ellison will only be DNC head,not the POTUS candidate.If he could have stayed in the shadows & focused on building the grassroots & wining the trust of the white working class which Bernie(who endorsed Ellison) got. Then perhaps Victory in 2020 would be possible.
> 
> He did a good job strengthening the party in Minneapolis & winning the trust of voters & even non-voters who he encouraged to vote. He lives in Dem bastion but never takes his voters for granted & always spends time with them answering thei queries!
> 
> His 3000+ county strategy sounded good to me & was one which I saw could help the Dems nationally.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...y-in-dnc-bid/?utm_term=.e48e46d92619#comments
> http://www.startribune.com/rep-ellison-hones-new-voter-turnout-strategy-for-democrats/363536691/
> =====================================================================
> Anyway Perez has a long way to unify the party. He has to get the moderates,the economic leftists,the cultural leftists, the union workers,Silicon valley,the liberal free market guys etc etc together.
> 
> & the way the DNC was biased against Bernie & the lack of repentance it has displayed since then doesn't help to unite the party & it also shows what they think of Bernie & his supporters
> 
> http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/0...-backfired-and-democrats-began-bashing-perez/
> 
> Look at the comments in the videos below. Trump,the liberal MSM(exaggerating fake news media)+Bannon & everybody else will get them to vote for the Dems. But the same passion & hope which Obama created in them & got them to campaign & get voters out will be very tough for any "usual establishment person" to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perez has a tough job ahead of him,but if he can gain the trust & loyalty of everyone then he can change things
> 
> @Nilgiri @T-72M1 What do you think?



I honestly dont care much of what the democrat party does now. If they decide to veer further to the left or whatever, they can go right on ahead and see how that works out. They have all the time in the world to find something that actually works


----------



## ptldM3

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 382174
> 
> 
> *Trump's 'Muslim Ban 2.0' is still the same flawed, un-American mess*
> BY MARIA CARDONA, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR - 03/06/17
> 
> *Trump Muslim ban take two! Or you could call it a kinder, gentler Muslim ban. But make no mistake: It is a Muslim ban, no matter how much the Trump administration tries to wrap it in better legal reasoning, more docile language, and ribbon that screams national security.*
> 
> Trump and his Muslim ban still have a huge uphill battle waiting for him simply because truth, reality, facts, his own quotes, and a country who yearns to uphold American values, are not on his side.
> 
> Let’s break down the difficulties Trump will face starting immediately:
> 
> *First and foremost, and incredibly damning, are the reports that intelligence analysts from Trump’s own DHS agency dispute Trump’s notion that these countries that are part of the ban pose a major threat to our national security. They found scant evidence that citizens from these countries are a danger to us.*
> 
> In fact, DHS found that additional vetting before entry won’t make us safer because most foreign-born, U.S.-based violent extremists become radicalized after living in the U.S. for a number of years rather than being radicalized when they first arrive.
> 
> *Second, there is still that pesky fact that, from 9/11 through today, no immigrant or refugee from the countries included in the Muslim ban has ever successfully perpetrated a terror attack on U.S. soil that resulted in any deaths of American citizens.*
> 
> *Trump’s team has expanded the notion to counter that there have been attempts by nationals of these countries to hurt Americans, and some have succeeded. Fair enough. This is where actual vetting (not banning), FBI, police and intelligence work comes into play and becomes more important than ever. *
> 
> And if the Trump administration’s reasoning continues to be the 9/11 terrorist attacks, then the burning question is why aren’t any of the countries whose citizens have perpetrated the most horrific acts of terror on our soil, part of the Muslim ban? Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Pakistan are all countries that people came from to do us harm in the U.S.
> 
> Could it be that Trump has major business dealings in these countries and he doesn’t want to do anything to harm those business relationships that continue to enrich him while he is in the Oval Office? We will never know since Trump refuses to release his tax returns.
> 
> *Third, Trump is on the record from many times during the campaign saying he wants a complete ban on Muslims entering the country.*
> 
> Period.
> 
> *This was his intent from the beginning and he cannot escape the echo of his own campaign promise that excited his base, pushing many to a frenzied anti-Muslim bias that has sadly resulted in violence and hate crimes perpetrated against Muslim citizens and those who look like they might be Muslim. *
> 
> *To put it simply, Trump’s new version of the same ole’ Muslim ban seeks to codify bias, discrimination, fear and hatred against Muslims, and in essence helps validate some of his supporters’ anti-Muslim attitudes. You can’t get more un-American than that.*
> 
> Fourth, the arbitrary nature of the list of countries in the ban is underscored by the removal of Iraq from the original list. I am glad they removed Iraq and Trump realized they are our allies, but it lays bare that the Trump administration is simply using the “Obama list” of countries that it designated as needing more vetting, as an excuse and not a real reason based on national security measures.
> 
> *Trump officials say that Iraq has enhanced their security procedures for vetting. That’s great! But is it true? They did that in three weeks, just since the last Muslim ban?*
> 
> *In fact, Former DHS Deputy General Counsel Jonathan Meyer said “Taking Iraq off does harm the case for the travel ban” and “adds to the mounting evidence that this order is not based on risk-based policy-making.”
> 
> Reports state Iraq lobbied hard to get off the list, and Secretary Tillerson pushed Trump to take them off, again proving the capricious reasoning behind the list of Muslim countries included in the ban.*
> 
> Fifth, the ban was supposed to be a matter of extremely “urgent national security.” Reince Priebus and Trump himself said the reason the first ban was done so quickly was so dangerous people could not sneak in with several days’ notice.
> 
> And yet, they have waited this long. Not to get it right, but apparently so Trump could enjoy more time in the positive after-glow of his so-called “presidential” speech before Congress from last Tuesday. I guess for this administration any positive press is more important than keeping Americans safe.
> 
> Good to know where we stand.
> 
> *The new Muslim ban even has a phase-in period of 10 days. Aren’t they afraid some “bad hombres” will rush in? *
> 
> *Sixth, the Muslim ban, even though many of the courts have upheld our American values and prevented the first one from going into effect, has already had negative economic outcomes. There has since been a “devastating drop” in tourism and a 17 percent reduction in international flights to the U.S.*
> 
> And last but not least, the new “and improved” Muslim ban, just like the first Muslim ban, will not increase our national security. It will do exactly the opposite.
> 
> *It puts us more at risk and makes us less safe, by allowing radical terrorist groups like ISIS to point to the Muslim ban as a reason Islam should be at war with the west.
> 
> Trump’s insistence on the ban gives these groups a powerful recruiting tool that increases the chances of radicalization that can come from anywhere, including (and most likely) from inside the United States.
> 
> We are not fighting terrorism with this ban. We are feeding it. *
> 
> Americans deserve better. We deserve a day when the president and the administration govern with facts, live in reality, listen to the experts, understand history, are rigorous in seeking out the truth, and ultimately legislates to continue making this country great.
> 
> *Sadly, that day is not today, and that president is not Donald Trump. Link*




You libs still don't get it. That "Muslim ban" was crafted by the Obama administration. Of course when the eveil white man does it it's "racist" but when Obama does it no one minds. Amazing how the Obama administration wire tapped journalists, got subpoenas to target phone records of Associated Press reporters and the liberals are silent about these police state tactics, lets not forget the IRS targeting conservatives but throw up a shit storm about fake news about Sessions, the "Muslim ban" and in general trivial matters that democrats bring up to cause civil unrest.

Oh yes and the illegal activities of Eric Holder, Loretta Lynch, and Hillary Clinton are swept under the rug. Funny how you preach democracy, and try to act like you are on the moral high ground like all dems do but show me one instance where you posted your distain for the illegal, dishonest police state tactics of the Obama administion. Liberals like yourself are more concerned about Trump's hair and skin complexion then any facts or I'll doing of the Democrats.

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## LA se Karachi

Darmashkian said:


> Both candidates seem bad to me,though I would choose Ellison to lead the Dems if I wanted victory for them.
> He is a risky bet,but he seems smart & knows how to strengthen the party base.He is willing to go in a new direction & he recognized the fact that Trump could win pretty early.
> 
> i believe that Tom Vilsack could have helped to get back the forgotten rural dems back
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...f8e0dd91dc7_story.html?utm_term=.af925a9070cb




Yes, he represented the "Sanders-wing" of the party. He may have been a bit more risky, but he appealed more to the groups I mentioned in my previous post. Those groups are crucial to the future of the Democratic Party.

But yes, you bring up a good point about rural voters and White working-class Democrats, particularly in the Midwest, that we need to focus on. I wish Tom Vilsack and others like him the best of luck. Many rural voters voted for Obama in 2008, despite his political background. But they have since been forgotten in many ways by the Democratic Party. They were reminded of them in the 2016 election. Hopefully, Democrats will remember them from now on.



Darmashkian said:


> Tom Perez brings nothing new to the table from what I can say.He has the establishment support+fundraisers behind him which HRC has. & the Latino head/representation card doesn't matter because to all those to whom it appeals already vote Dem.
> 
> Oh yes,wasn't he the* Secretary for Labour in Obama's administration*? Shouldn't some of the blame for white unionized workers abandoning the Dems which has has been going on since Obama won gone to him? Getting the support of the Union heads & managements does not matter much.They endorsed HRC & campaigned for her too, yet the white workers went for Trump.




Agreed. Tom Perez brings nothing to the table, as you say, he is just another establishment Democrat. And yes, Democrats do indeed need to appeal to union workers after they only narrowly favored Hillary Clinton, despite having backed Obama by wide margins in both 2008 and 2012.

And you are right again that him being Hispanic will not help in the slightest. Most non-Cuban Hispanic votes are already overwhelmingly Democratic, and Trump will be the biggest motivating factor for many of them anyway. After trying to appeal to the ever-growing Hispanic share of the electorate for the past two decades (which is crucial in some swing states), Republicans destroyed most of whatever little goodwill they had among those communities with Trump.



Darmashkian said:


> & hasn't he been accused of being a race baiter & anti-white(which many cultural liberals & even white ones are). What a way to polarize white people away from you. Isn't that one other reason why the most unpopular guy to run for POTUS post WW2 won?
> 
> http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...le-not-entitled-protection-voting-rights-act/
> 
> http://freebeacon.com/politics/5-sc...t-democrats-if-thomas-perez-is-their-vp-pick/ (read the black panther part)
> http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/25/democrats-unify-around-shutting-down-white-people/
> 
> & he's not moderate to many people,he is a leftist idealogue as many conservatives see(& so do I)
> https://capitalresearch.org/article...-be-near-the-top-of-hillary-clintons-vp-list/
> http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/445269/new-dnc-chairman-tom-perez-no-moderate-all




Well, I don't agree with your comments about Tom Perez here at all. He's not race-baiter, and he's certainly not "anti-White"---whatever that means. That's completely false. And he isn't far left either. He's more of your typical establishment, technocratic Democrat.

Trump's win had far less to do with race, and far more to do with economics and a strong anti-establishment feeling across the country (along with Hillary being the Democratic candidate---she was quite unpopular). Many younger voters, Midwestern Democrats, rural Democrats, white-working class Democrats, and independents simply stayed home or voted third-party in the election. This led to Trump narrowly winning a few swing states (margins of less than 1%) that won him the Presidency. Keep in mind that he still did lose the popular vote to Hillary Clinton by a 46-48% margin.



Darmashkian said:


> Keith Ellison is a Muslim convert... that's enough to make lots of new conspiracy theories about him(Check Obama as reference;the present POTUS himself made numerous insinuations about him[He's a muslim??,He was not born here]etc).
> Add to that his past is very shady. Allegations of being anti-white,anti-semitic,pro-Islamism etc...
> 
> https://thefederalist.com/2017/02/28/keith-ellison-wasnt-smeared-he-was-exposed/
> http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/26/keith-ellison-once-proposed-making-a-separate-country-for-blacks/
> 
> I'm not going to get into any argument about him. Remember ,* "IN POLITICS- Perception matter more than facts" . *
> & all these allegations+articles & Trump's tweets would have energized the Republican base & could have turned off independents.




Well, I've addressed this in another post before, it's mostly just a smear campaign. Ellison never said anything anti-Semitic himself, apologized for his relatively brief involvement in the Nation of Islam, disavowed Louis Farrakhan, and many Jewish leaders (including Chuck Schumer---the Minority Leader in the Senate) endorsed his candidacy or defended him against false allegations.

And yes, perceptions matter more than reality, unfortunately. However, I think his benefits outweighed any "risks". I like Ellison a lot, but I wouldn't have minded if someone less exotic than him had run to represent the Sanders-wing of the party. However, no one really did.



Darmashkian said:


> Ellison will only be DNC head,not the POTUS candidate.If he could have stayed in the shadows & focused on building the grassroots & wining the trust of the white working class which Bernie(who endorsed Ellison) got. Then perhaps Victory in 2020 would be possible.
> 
> He did a good job strengthening the party in Minneapolis & winning the trust of voters & even non-voters who he encouraged to vote. He lives in Dem bastion but never takes his voters for granted & always spends time with them answering thei queries!
> 
> His 3000+ county strategy sounded good to me & was one which I saw could help the Dems nationally.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...y-in-dnc-bid/?utm_term=.e48e46d92619#comments
> http://www.startribune.com/rep-ellison-hones-new-voter-turnout-strategy-for-democrats/363536691/




Precisely. This was the key to his candidacy. He wanted to reach out to rural voters and younger voters, building up a base of support county by county, replicating Sanders' success. There are very motivated Democrats across the country who can get the support of independents, working class voters, and rural voters that we need to win elections. But the Democratic Party has to give them a platform, without suppressing their power or ignoring their demands.

Older Democrats, African-Americans, other older minorities, and wealthy Democrats are reliable voters that will almost always show up to the polls and vote Democratic, especially against Trump. It is the votes of the _other_ groups that we need the most, which Sanders' campaign and platform appealed to the most. 



Darmashkian said:


> nyway Perez has a long way to unify the party. He has to get the moderates,the economic leftists,the cultural leftists, the union workers,Silicon valley,the liberal free market guys etc etc together.
> 
> & the way the DNC was biased against Bernie & the lack of repentance it has displayed since then doesn't help to unite the party & it also shows what they think of Bernie & his supporters
> 
> http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/0...-backfired-and-democrats-began-bashing-perez/
> 
> Look at the comments in the videos below. Trump,the liberal MSM(exaggerating fake news media)+Bannon & everybody else will get them to vote for the Dems. But the same passion & hope which Obama created in them & got them to campaign & get voters out will be very tough for any "usual establishment person" to do.




To be honest, all of those groups are pretty united against Trump. And in general, those groups are pretty united ideologically as well. More so than Republicans, in fact. The problem is one of emphasis, however.

Senator Sanders' campaign showed that even a liberal Jewish Democrat originally from Brooklyn could get the overwhelming support of rural voters, working class whites, and independents. All while getting strong support from younger voters, college-educated voters, and many urban voters as well. The key is emphasizing _economic_ issues, and putting Republicans on the defensive.

The Democratic Party has to return to its roots as the party of the middle and working classes. This is the road to victory, as polling and the Democratic Primary showed. And yes, it has to truly open the gates of power to Sanders' supporters. Obama did fill many of us passion and hope for change, though he squandered that somewhat. But if the Democrats choose the right path, it can rekindle that passion (and then some).



Darmashkian said:


> Perez has a tough job ahead of him,but if he can gain the trust & loyalty of everyone then he can change things




True. Across the country, many "Berniecrats" have been winning local office and positions within the Democratic Party. Right here in California, in fact, Berniecrats won most of the California Democratic Party's State Delegate positions, which are crucial to choosing party leaders and the influencing the party as a whole.

Similar things have taken place in many other places across the country. Especially in rural states and swing states, where local Democrats are doing their best to tie themselves to Senator Sanders' popular campaign and ideas as much as possible (even if they didn't vote for him). There is hope yet.

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## CBU-105

LA se Karachi said:


> Keep in mind that he still did lose the popular vote to Hillary Clinton by a 46-48% margin.


He won the popular vote in 30 out of 50 states, and narrow as his margins might have been in those few crucial swing states, he still flipped them red after decades of them being blue bastions, did he not ?

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## RabzonKhan

In 2013, Trump said that he has “done lot of business with the Russians” and also said that he “met Putin once”, but in 2015 debate with Hillary Clinton, Trump said “he never met Putin”. Now the question is, why is he lying, what is he trying to hide?

2013, he met Putin:






2015, he never met Putin:

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## Darmashkian

@Nilgiri @CBU-105 @T-72 @F-22Raptor 

Read these links. What if Trump was a women & Hillary the man?? What would their debate performance be like & would it change minds?
http://hotair.com/archives/2017/03/...ential-debate-and-the-results-surprised-them/




https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publ...ch/trump-clinton-debates-gender-reversal.html


After watching the second televised debate between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in October 2016—a battle between the first female candidate nominated by a major party and an opponent who’d just been caught on tape bragging about sexually assaulting women—Maria Guadalupe, an associate professor of economics and political science at INSEAD, had an idea. Millions had tuned in to watch a man face off against a woman for the first set of co-ed presidential debates in American history.* But how would their perceptions change, she wondered, if the genders of the candidates were switched? *She pictured an actress playing Trump, replicating his words, gestures, body language, and tone verbatim, while an actor took on Clinton’s role in the same way. What would the experiment reveal about male and female communication styles, and the differing standards by which we unconsciously judge them?

..
.
.
.


_Many were shocked to find that they couldn’t seem to find in Jonathan Gordon what they had admired in Hillary Clinton—or that Brenda King’s clever tactics seemed to shine in moments where they’d remembered Donald Trump flailing or lashing out. For those Clinton voters trying to make sense of the loss, it was by turns bewildering and instructive, raising as many questions about gender performance and effects of sexism as it answered._
_._
_._
_._
_._
_._

*Based on the conversations after the performances, it sounded like audience members had their beliefs rattled in a similar way. What were some themes that emerged from their responses?*

We heard a lot of “*now I understand how this happened*”—meaning how Trump won the election. People got upset. There was a guy two rows in front of me who was literally holding his head in his hands, and the person with him was rubbing his back. The simplicity of Trump’s message became easier for people to hear when it was coming from a woman—that was a theme. One person said, “I_’m just so struck by how precise Trump’s technique is.” Another—a musical theater composer, actually—said that Trump created “hummable lyrics,_” while Clinton talked a lot, and everything she was was true and factual, but there was no “hook” to it. Another theme was about not liking either candidate—you know, “I wouldn’t vote for either one.” Someone said that* Jonathan Gordon [the male Hillary Clinton] was “really punchable” because of all the smiling. And a lot of people were just very surprised by the way it upended their expectations about what they thought they would feel or experience. There was someone who described Brenda King [the female Donald Trump] as his Jewish aunt who would take care of him,* even though he might not like his aunt. Someone else described her as the middle school principal who you don’t like, but you know is doing good things for you.

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## RabzonKhan

Remember how Trump used to claim that on the first day in office he will repeal Obama care, the fact is, he still has no plan of his own, but now he has shamelessly accepted a useless Republican establishment’s plan, yeah, the same politicians he used to repeatedly criticize during his campaign, remember his bogus mantra, “drain the swamp”.



*Republicans’ Obamacare Replacement Just Got A Powerful Enemy*

*AARP announces its opposition to the bill.*

By Daniel Marans, Laura Barron-Lopez

WASHINGTON ― Provisions in the House Republicans’ Obamacare replacement bill that would raise insurance costs for older Americans are drawing resistance from the influential seniors’ lobby.

The American Health Care Act, as Republicans are calling it, would allow insurers to make premiums for older Americans five times what they charge younger workers ― provided that a state’s regulations allow for it. Obamacare had capped this ratio, known as an “age rating,” at 3 to 1.

The measure was chief among the reasons AARP, the nation’s largest organization for older Americans, cited in explaining its opposition to the House bill on Tuesday evening.

*“Older Americans need affordable health care services and prescriptions,” AARP Executive Vice President Nancy LeaMond said in a statement. “This plan goes in the opposite direction, increasing insurance premiums for older Americans and not doing anything to lower drug costs.”*

*AARP, which has nearly 38 million members ages 50 and older, is also firmly opposed to a pair of major changes to Medicaid that the House bill includes. One is a rollback of Obamacare’s Medicaid expansion, which made the program available to millions of low-income adults, many of them seniors, who had no insurance before.* The other is a new Medicaid funding formula that could leave states on the hook for more and more money, a report from the left-leaning Center on Budget and Policy Priorities concluded Tuesday. That might force states to make cuts that hurt seniors, many of whom rely on Medicaid for nursing home care and other health services.

*“Medicaid cuts could impact people of all ages and put at risk the health and safety of 17.4 million children and adults with disabilities and seniors by eliminating much needed services that allow individuals to live independently in their homes and communities,” LeaMond said. “This harmful legislation would make health care less secure and less affordable.”*

AARP used its considerable political power to help pass Obamacare in 2010, despite the opposition of many members ― about 400,000 left the organization in protest. AARP’s objection to key elements of the Republican bill to replace the landmark law could prove just as influential.

“[AARP] backed it and paid the price for backing it, so why not support it against repeal?” said Fred Lynch, a professor at Claremont McKenna College and author of “One Nation Under AARP.” “The Congress is genuinely afraid of age power, and they’d just as soon let the sleeping giant go on sleeping.”

“The only possible leader right now is AARP, so it’s sort of in their hands,” he said.

The mammoth organization has already registered its opposition to the two measures in letters to Congress in late January and early February.

AARP premiered a new video advertisement for the campaign on Monday, suggesting it was ramping up its efforts to kill the provision.

In the tongue-in-cheek ad that runs for just over a minute, a man chopping wood alongside a squirrel named Charlie expresses his anger at the “age tax.”


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/838847647033274369
“You know, Charlie and I were watching the news this morning, and they said that Congress has just introduced a new age-rating bill,” the wood-chopping narrator says. “And I was like, ‘What the heck is age rating?’ Then Charlie explained that it’s Washington politician-speak for overcharging older Americans for their health insurance while lining the insurance companies’ pockets.”

The ad is part of an advocacy campaign AARP launched Feb. 15 to specifically combat a rise in the “age rating,” which it is calling an “age tax.” At the time, the organization encouraged its members to call those in Congress who were active in drafting the health care legislation to oppose the rating provision. *Read more*

*


American Medical Association Opposes GOP Health Care Plan*
by MAGGIE FOX

The American Medical Association, which represents about 200,000 physicians and medical students, rejected the Republican plan to replace the Affordable Care Act Wednesday.

"While the ACA is imperfect, the current version of the [American Health Care Act] is not legislation we can support," Dr. Andrew Gurman, president of the AMA, said in a statement posted to the association's website. "The replacement bill, as written, would reverse the coverage gains achieved under the ACA, causing many Americans to lose the health care coverage they have come to depend upon." *Read more*

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## RabzonKhan

As I said in one of my previous post that AG Jeff Sessions lied under oath, should resign, and Congress should appoint a special prosecutor to investigate potential ties between Trump and Russia,(*Link*)majority of American voters agree. In a new Quinnipiac poll:

52 – 40% say that Atty. Gen. Jeff Sessions lied under oath during his confirmation hearings.

51 – 42% say that he should resign.

66 – 30% support an independent commission investigating potential links between some of Trump’s campaign advisors and the Russian government. *Link*

*


Authorities looked into Manafort protégé*

An associate of an ex-Trump campaign chairman is suspected of connections to Russian intelligence.

By KENNETH P. VOGEL and DAVID STERN 03/08/17

U.S. and Ukrainian authorities have expressed interest in the activities of a Kiev-based operative with suspected ties to Russian intelligence who consulted regularly with Paul Manafort last year while Manafort was running Donald Trump’s presidential campaign.

The operative, Konstantin Kilimnik, came under scrutiny from officials at the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the State Department partly because of at least two trips he took to the U.S. during the presidential campaign, according to three international political operatives familiar with the agencies’ interest in Kilimnik.

Kilimnik, a joint Russian-Ukrainian citizen who trained in the Russian army as a linguist, told operatives in Kiev and Washington that he met with Manafort during an April trip to the United States. And, after a late summer trip to the U.S., Kilimnik suggested that he had played a role in gutting a proposed amendment to the Republican Party platform that would have staked out a more adversarial stance towards Russia, according to a Kiev operative. *Read more*

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## ptldM3

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 382798
> 
> 
> As I said in one of my previous post that AG Jeff Sessions lied under oath, should resign, and Congress should appoint a special prosecutor to investigate potential ties between Trump and Russia,(*Link*)majority of American voters agree. In a new Quinnipiac poll:
> 
> 52 – 40% say that Atty. Gen. Jeff Sessions lied under oath during his confirmation hearings.
> 
> 51 – 42% say that he should resign.
> 
> 66 – 30% support an independent commission investigating potential links between some of Trump’s campaign advisors and the Russian government. *Link*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> Authorities looked into Manafort protégé*
> 
> An associate of an ex-Trump campaign chairman is suspected of connections to Russian intelligence.
> 
> By KENNETH P. VOGEL and DAVID STERN 03/08/17
> 
> U.S. and Ukrainian authorities have expressed interest in the activities of a Kiev-based operative with suspected ties to Russian intelligence who consulted regularly with Paul Manafort last year while Manafort was running Donald Trump’s presidential campaign.
> 
> The operative, Konstantin Kilimnik, came under scrutiny from officials at the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the State Department partly because of at least two trips he took to the U.S. during the presidential campaign, according to three international political operatives familiar with the agencies’ interest in Kilimnik.
> 
> Kilimnik, a joint Russian-Ukrainian citizen who trained in the Russian army as a linguist, told operatives in Kiev and Washington that he met with Manafort during an April trip to the United States. And, after a late summer trip to the U.S., Kilimnik suggested that he had played a role in gutting a proposed amendment to the Republican Party platform that would have staked out a more adversarial stance towards Russia, according to a Kiev operative. *Read more*




Your liberal fake news never ends. How did Sessions lie when he said he did not have contacts with Russian officials while associated with the Trump campaign. Give us an explanation how that is a lie. You might want to go listen to what Franklen asked and how Sessions responded before making a fool out of yourself.

This is an attempt by the democrats to cause social unrest via hordes of brain dead liberal zombies.


Give the Trump Russia conspiracy a rest. The FBI has already concluded that Trump has no links to Russia. Liberals lost the election and power through all branches of government because of the lies and fake news. Keep it...


Here are the 3 democrat idiots that keep pushing the Russian conspiracy. We should trust these people because well they say Russia invaded Korea, Bush is still president and non of them met Russian embassadors.

Al Franklen the ex failed SNL comedian making an idiot of himself both in congress and as a failed comedian:



More proof democrats are nasty perverts:







This is what democrats have experienced after losing:







Typical conspiracy nut:







Pelosi apparently "never met with Kislyak". Also bush is still president according to this dementia patient.







This idiot think "Russia invaded Korea". She also got prank called by Russian pranksters exposing just how dumb she is:

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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> As I said in one of my previous post that AG Jeff Sessions lied under oath, should resign, and Congress should appoint a special prosecutor to investigate potential ties between Trump and Russia,(*Link*)majority of American voters agree. In a new *Quinnipiac poll:*
> 
> 52 – 40% say that Atty. Gen. Jeff Sessions lied under oath during his confirmation hearings.
> 
> 51 – 42% say that he should resign.
> 
> 66 – 30% support...


I find your undying faith in polls disturbing.

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## LA se Karachi

_*Graham ready to subpoena for Trump wiretap information*_

By Manu Raju and Tom LoBianco, CNN


Washington (CNN) - Sen. Lindsey Graham said Wednesday he is ready to subpoena the intelligence agencies for evidence that would prove President Donald Trump's claims that he was wiretapped last year by then-President Barack Obama.

Asked by CNN if he would subpoena for any evidence, the South Carolina Republican said, "Yes."
"All I can say is that the country needs an answer to this. The current President has accused the former President of basically wiretapping his campaign," Graham said, one day after he joined Trump for a one-on-one lunch at the White House.

Graham and Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, a Rhode Island Democrat, sent a letter to FBI Director James Comey and the acting deputy attorney general Wednesday, requesting any information regarding Trump's claims.

"We request that the Department of Justice provide us copies of any warrant applications and court orders — redacted as necessary to protect intelligence sources and methods that may be compromised by disclosure, and to protect any ongoing investigations — related to wiretaps of President Trump, the Trump Campaign, or Trump Tower," Graham and Whitehouse wrote.

The Trump administration has declined to provide any information about Trump's allegations since the President tweeted them last Saturday. Obama's former aides have completely denied Trump's claims, and sources told CNN Obama himself was exasperated after learning of the accusations.

Ranking member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Mark Warner, was among four senators who met with the CIA to see "raw intel" related to Russia' meddling in the US election.

"In many ways we've got even more questions now," the Virginia Democrat told reporters. "We've got more information we've got to get access to."

Asked about whether he'd seen evidence related to Trump's claims, Warner responded, "Of course we'll follow the information, we're going to follow the truth but what we have right now is ... an accusal with absolutely ... no basis in fact that anyone from the Intel community or even anybody in the staff in the White House has laid out."

Republican leaders in the Capitol, meanwhile, have largely distanced themselves from the accusations as they attempt to focus on their own internal rifts that have hobbled the effort to repeal and replace Obamacare. But Trump's accusations only added to a swirl of questions about Russia's meddling in the 2016 elections already being investigated by House and Senate lawmakers.

Sen. Susan Collins, a Maine Republican and member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, left the door open to requesting Trump's tax returns as part of their investigation -- something that could detail or dispel pervasive rumors of Trump's business ties in Russia.

"I don't know yet. It's too early to say," Collins told CNN. "What I do think that it would be helpful for us to do on the intelligence committee is to have a public hearing, where we can hear from some Russian experts."

House Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes, who is leading a separate investigation into Russia's efforts, said Monday that he did not want to subpoena Trump's tax returns. But the top Democrat on that panel, Rep. Adam Schiff, said Democrats may seek the returns.

House investigators have set an aggressive timeline for their investigation, requesting a slew of documents from the FBI, CIA and Justice Department by March 17 and asking top current and former intelligence officials to testify in public at a March 20 hearing. 

Members of the House and Senate intelligence committees, meanwhile, have been trekking to CIA headquarters to review raw intelligence.

Nunes said he wants to know why top intelligence officials changed their assessment of Russia's influence between December and January.

"What we're trying to get to the bottom of, is how did the assessment on December 5 that they gave us, how did it radically change -- with the major change being that specifically that the Russians were trying to get Donald Trump elected, and that's what we're trying to get to the bottom of," Nunes told CNN Wednesday. "It's just a major shift we need to understand and we're the oversight body."

_http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/08/politics/graham-wiretap-russia-subpoena/_


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## T-72M1

LOL

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## RabzonKhan

Thank goodness that Flynn guy is gone, that man was a total disaster.
*
Flynn Attended Intel Briefings While Taking Money To Lobby for Turkey
*
by KEN DILANIAN 3/11/2017

Former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn was attending secret intelligence briefings with then-candidate Donald Trump while he was being paid more than half a million dollars to lobby on behalf of the Turkish government, federal records show.

Flynn stopped lobbying after he became national security advisor, but he then played a role in formulating policy toward Turkey, working for a president who has promised to curb the role of lobbyists in Washington.

White House spokesman Sean Spicer on Friday defended the Trump administration's handling of the matter, even as he acknowledged to reporters that the White House was aware of the potential that Flynn might need to register as a foreign agent.

When his firm was hired by a Turkish businessman last year, Flynn did not register as a foreign lobbyist, and only did so a few days ago under pressure from the Justice Department, the businessman told The Associated Press this week.

Attempts by NBC News to reach the Turkish businessman, Ekim Alptekin, were unsuccessful Friday.

Price Floyd, a spokesman for Flynn, said the retired general would have no comment.

Flynn was fired last month after it was determined he misled Vice President Mike Pence about Flynn's conversations with the Russian ambassador to the United States. His security clearance was suspended. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

ptldM3 said:


> Your liberal fake news never ends. How did Sessions lie when he said he did not have contacts with Russian officials while associated with the Trump campaign. Give us an explanation how that is a lie. You might want to go listen to what Franklen asked and how Sessions responded before making a fool out of yourself.


Actually, it’s the other way around, you are the one who is making fake claims.



> Give the Trump Russia conspiracy a rest. The FBI has already concluded that Trump has no links to Russia.


Just shows how little you know about the issue. Don’t make false claim, the fact is, that there are several investigation pursuing this issue:

FBI is pursuing at least three separate probes. *Link*

The US Congress is pursuing at least five separate investigation into Russian interference in the US election and contacts between Trump campaign and Russians:

1. The Senate Intelligence Committee, with jurisdiction over 17 intelligence agencies, is in the early stages of a probe launched in January. Initially focused on Russian hacking and misinformation efforts during the election, it has since been broadened to cover what committee members have described as contacts between Russian officials and the U.S. political campaigns.

2. The Senate Judiciary Committee, with oversight over the Department of Justice and the FBI, is carrying out its own investigation and has asked the Department of Justice for a briefing and documents related to circumstances leading up to Flynn's resignation.

3. The Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime and Terrorism, chaired by Russia hawk Lindsey Graham, announced in early February plans to investigate Russian meddling. The panel has jurisdiction over the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice, as well as the FBI.

4. The House Intelligence Committee, charged with oversight of 17 intelligence agencies, is investigating "intelligence or counter-intelligence issues" involving Russia and the election.

5. The House Judiciary Committee, with oversight over the Department of Justice, is conducting its own investigation, with Republican members planning to write a letter to Attorney General Sessions requesting his cooperation with the Russia probe. *Link*

*CIA providing raw intelligence as Trump-Russia probes heat up*
Congress has entered a new phase in its investigation.

Lawmakers are trekking to CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, to review classified evidence on Russia’s involvement in the presidential election. The House has scheduled its first public hearing on the issue. And the Senate is preparing to interview witnesses.

The congressional investigations into ties between President Donald Trump's campaign and Russian officials are in full swing. *Link*


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## ptldM3

RabzonKhan said:


> Actually, it’s the other way around, you are the one who is making fake claims.





What is funny is you posting a wall of rubbish in which you haven't got a clue about what you are talking about.





RabzonKhan said:


> FBI is pursuing at least three separate probes. *Link*




Read your own sources. The FBI is looking into:

1. The people behind the DNC breaches.

2. The Identity of Guciffer2 (Believed to have posted Padestas emails.)

3. Russian contacts and *companies* with possible links to Trump *associates*.



In your liberal mind this equates to Trump having contacts with Russia and since when was it illegal to do business in Russia? Hillary and Bill Clinton made a lot of money from Russia, 500k for one speach but that's okay, it's only wrong if Trump or his business partners do it.



Meanwhile:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/us/politics/fbi-russia-election-donald-trump.html


The FBI already investigating Trump/Russia and found nothing. Meanwhile Hillary raised over 600 million from the presidential campaign some of which came from gulf states that armed Isis and have Isis ideology themselves which includes beheading gays, adulterers, people that leave Islam, subjigating Christians and banning churches and allowing virtually no rights to women.

But hey, its the Russians that are evil, let's ignore Clinton's taking money from terrorist sponsors and ignor countries such as Israel and many others which are spying on the US and stealing US secrets but let's go after evil Russia.





RabzonKhan said:


> The US Congress is pursuing at least five separate investigation into Russian interference in the US election and contacts between Trump campaign and Russians:
> 
> 1. The Senate Intelligence Committee, with jurisdiction over 17 intelligence agencies, is in the early stages of a probe launched in January. Initially focused on Russian hacking and misinformation efforts during the election, it has since been broadened to cover what committee members have described as contacts between Russian officials and the U.S. political campaigns.
> 
> 2. The Senate Judiciary Committee, with oversight over the Department of Justice and the FBI, is carrying out its own investigation and has asked the Department of Justice for a briefing and documents related to circumstances leading up to Flynn's resignation.
> 
> 3. The Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime and Terrorism, chaired by Russia hawk Lindsey Graham, announced in early February plans to investigate Russian meddling. The panel has jurisdiction over the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice, as well as the FBI.
> 
> 4. The House Intelligence Committee, charged with oversight of 17 intelligence agencies, is investigating "intelligence or counter-intelligence issues" involving Russia and the election.
> 
> 5. The House Judiciary Committee, with oversight over the Department of Justice, is conducting its own investigation, with Republican members planning to write a letter to Attorney General Sessions requesting his cooperation with the Russia probe. *Link*
> 
> *CIA providing raw intelligence as Trump-Russia probes heat up*
> Congress has entered a new phase in its investigation.
> 
> Lawmakers are trekking to CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, to review classified evidence on Russia’s involvement in the presidential election. The House has scheduled its first public hearing on the issue. And the Senate is preparing to interview witnesses.
> 
> The congressional investigations into ties between President Donald Trump's campaign and Russian officials are in full swing. *Link*





Blah.. blah..blah. Mostly a bunch of disgruntled political hack Democrats and a handful of Rupblicans that openly hate Russians are kicking up dirt. They can launch as many inquiries as they want, *the FBI has already concluded Trump had no connection to Russia*. That is a hard pill to swallow for libs.

*The same morons that are pushing for these investigations are the same morons that claimed Russia invaded North Korea.  they can launch an inquiry into Putin being a shape shifting reptilian for all I care.*


Meanwhile the latest weki links prove once again the CIA is gustapo and Obama a thug. We already knew the US had interfered in dozens of election around the world, wire tapped US journalists and went through their phones, as well as spied on allies such Merkel but now we know the US under
*Obama infiltrated French elections *as well. oh and the *CIA stole Russian malware. *The CIA can commit cyber attacks and then blame Russia, which the CIAs job has always been to hurt Russia and deceive.

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## LA se Karachi

*McCain calls on Trump to clarify wiretapping claim*

By Eli Watkins, CNN







Washington (CNN) - Sen. John McCain said Sunday that President Donald Trump should either retract or substantiate his claim that President Barack Obama wire-tapped him in the final weeks of the presidential campaign and added he expects more to come on Russia's meddling in the US election.

McCain said on CNN's "State of the Union" that he had "no reason to believe" Trump's allegation, which the President has not supported with any evidence and which a White House official said was prompted by a Breitbart article.

"I have no reason to believe that the charge is true, but I also believe that the President of the United States could clear this up in a minute," McCain told anchor Jake Tapper. "All he has to do is pick up the phone, call the director of the CIA, director of national intelligence and say, 'OK, what happened?'"

The Arizona senator's comments marked the latest high-profile call for the President to explain a series of tweets he sent on March 4 in which he claimed, without evidence, that Obama had the "wires tapped" at Trump Tower. Since Trump leveled the stunning accusations, several current and former national security officials denied the accusation, including former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, as did Obama himself through his spokesman. Sources have told CNN that FBI Director James Comey also pushed back against Trump's claim. 

Under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, law enforcement agencies must obtain a warrant from a secret court to undertake such monitoring. But communications of Americans may be swept up in the monitoring of foreigners, as was reportedly the case with ex-national security adviser Michael Flynn, whose leaked contacts with Russian diplomat Sergey Kislyak led to his ouster.

Reports that Trump's associates contacted Russians known to US intelligence during the campaign have dogged Trump for months, raising questions about whether those contacts had anything to do with Russia's meddling in the US election. The US intelligence community has concluded that Moscow launched an aggressive hacking campaign to undermine the candidacy of Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton. 

The Russian government has denied these claims, with Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov telling CNN's Fareed Zakaria in an interview that aired Sunday: "Russia is being demonized."

Facing political pressure over reports that he, too, met with Kislyak but did not acknowledge it during his confirmation hearing, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced earlier this month that he would recuse himself from any investigation into Trump's campaign.

The House and Senate Intelligence committees have said they are investigating alleged Russian involvement in the election, and the White House has asked Congress to include Trump's unsubstantiated wiretapping claims in its investigations.

House Speaker Paul Ryan said on CBS "Face the Nation" in an interview that aired Sunday that he had not seen any evidence to back Trump's claims. Ryan is a member of the "Gang of Eight" of congressional leaders with access to the nation's top intelligence. FBI Director James Comey met behind closed doors with those lawmakers Thursday.

In his interview Sunday, McCain said Trump's accusation must be resolved; if left hanging, "it undermines the confidence the American people have in the entire way the that the government does business," he said.

McCain also expressed his concern with the mounting questions about the relationships between Russian officials and people tied to Trump, who advocated for better relations with Russia during the campaign.

"There's a lot of aspects of this whole relationship with Russia and (Russian President) Vladimir Putin that requires further scrutiny, and so far, I don't think the American people have gotten all the answers,"McCain said. "In fact, I think there's a lot more shoes to drop from this centipede." 

McCain, who has advocated a hard line against Russia, called into question the failure of the Republican Party to adopt at its 2016 national convention a plank for the provision of defensive weapons to Ukraine following Russia's invasion of Crimea.

"Why was that taken out of the Republican platform?" McCain asked. "Clearly, it was not the will of most Republicans."

As president, Obama weighed the idea of arming Ukraine, but ultimately did not proceed with such a move.
McCain named Flynn as one person about whom he had questions. He went on to say that former Trump adviser Roger Stone also needed to be questioned in addition to former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort, accusing both of questionable ties to the ousted Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych. 

"This whole issue of the relationship with the Russians and who communicated with them and under what circumstances clearly cries out for investigations, but I would also point out, we should not assume guilt until we have a thorough investigation," McCain said.

_http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/12/politics/john-mccain-donald-trump/_

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## Dragon Ball

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/841369900123865088

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## RabzonKhan

I really cannot understand how can poor blue-collar workers vote for him and think that this filthy rich man was going to take care of them? Hopefully they will learn their lesson and next time will vote more wisely.


*Trump promised not to cut Medicaid. His health bill will cut $880 billion from it.
*
Updated by Andrew Prokopandrew Mar 13, 2017

As a candidate, Donald Trump promised that he wouldn’t cut Medicaid. He’d “save Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security without cuts,” he pledged during his announcement speech. “Have to do it.”

The House Republican health care bill doesn’t just break that promise — it makes a mockery of it.

According to the Congressional Budget Office estimate released Monday, the American Health Care Act would slash $880 billion in federal funds from Medicaid in the next 10 years. As a result, 14 million fewer people would have Medicaid coverage in 2026, the agency estimates.

*Trump’s promise not to cut Medicaid wasn’t a one-off — he used it specifically to argue that he was different from other Republicans. *In May 2015 when he was preparing his campaign, he said, “I’m not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid. Every other Republican is going to cut.”


That same month, he tweeted the following:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/596338364187602944
*Trump has also repeatedly promised, even after his election, that his health care plan would provide insurance for everyone. “We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” he said in January. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”*

The American Health Care Act utterly breaks that promise. Not only does it roll back Obamacare’s Medicaid expansion, it would overhaul the entire Medicaid program to cap how many federal dollars states would get per enrollee, as Dylan Matthews explains. As a result, it would cause millions of people to be tossed off Medicaid without offering them an affordable alternative. *Link*


*

CBO: Republican health care bill raises premiums for older, poor Americans by more than 750%*

*The American Health Care Act would make a low-income 64-year-old in the individual market pay more than half his income for health insurance.*

by German Lopez Mar 13, 2017

The Republican-backed American Health Care Act would be totally devastating to older Americans who rely on the individual market for insurance, according to an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).

The bill does bring down overall premiums in the individual market by about 10 percent by 2026 compared with what they would be under current law, the CBO found. But the CBO includes a big caveat: This would greatly differ based on age and income.

The CBO offers an example of a single individual with an annual income of $26,500.

If that person is 21 years old, he’ll largely benefit from the Republican health care bill. Under the Affordable Care Act (also known as Obamacare), he would on average pay $1,700 in premiums for insurance. Under the Republican plan, he would pay $1,450.

*But if that person is 64 years old, he would be hurt by the Republican bill. Under Obamacare, he would also pay $1,700 in premiums for insurance. But under the Republican bill, he would pay $14,600 — more than half his annual income. That amounts to more than a 750 percent increase in premiums from Obamacare to the Republican bill.*

A 64-year-old who’s making $68,200 a year would fare a bit better. Under Obamacare, he’s expected to pay $15,300 in premiums for insurance — because his income would be too high to receive the law’s tax credits. But under the Republican bill, everyone below $75,000 gets a tax credit based on age (with a phaseout for higher incomes). So he would get a subsidy that would reduce his premium to $14,600 — just barely enough to be lower than it would be under Obamacare.

Here’s how all of that looks in chart form:







Older people with an annual income of $75,000 or more would get fewer to no subsidies under the Republican bill. So they would likely face higher premiums than they did under Obamacare, much like the lower-income consumer.

The Republican bill accomplishes all of this in two ways.

First, it abandons Obamacare’s income-based tax credits (which give more money to people with lower incomes) to instead give anyone with an annual salary below $75,000 a tax credit based on age, with older people getting more money and a phaseout for higher incomes.

But it also peels back an Obamacare rule that protects older people from higher premiums. Under Obamacare, insurers are generally only allowed to charge an older person about three times what they would charge a younger person — under the theory that older people are often sicker and therefore need to use more insurance. But under the Republican bill, the limit of three times would go up to five times, effectively letting insurers charge older people 66 percent more than they would under Obamacare.

Republicans argue this is necessary because it would also let insurers charge younger people less, which would encourage younger and generally healthier people to come into the insurance pool — and therefore bring down the overall cost of health care by making it so more younger, healthier people are effectively subsidizing everyone’s care.

The CBO found that’s broadly true. It would bring insurance premiums down in general, and it would cost young people less to get signed up for a health plan. But it would do all of that at a high cost for older Americans.


Correction: This article originally misstated how the individual market tax credit phaseout works under the American Health Care Act. *Link*

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## RabzonKhan

ptldM3 said:


> What is funny is you posting a wall of rubbish in which you haven't got a clue about what you are talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read your own sources. The FBI is looking into:
> 
> 1. The people behind the DNC breaches.
> 
> 2. The Identity of Guciffer2 (Believed to have posted Padestas emails.)
> 
> 3. Russian contacts and *companies* with possible links to Trump *associates*.
> 
> 
> 
> In your liberal mind this equates to Trump having contacts with Russia and since when was it illegal to do business in Russia? Hillary and Bill Clinton made a lot of money from Russia, 500k for one speach but that's okay, it's only wrong if Trump or his business partners do it.
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile:
> 
> http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/us/politics/fbi-russia-election-donald-trump.html
> 
> 
> The FBI already investigating Trump/Russia and found nothing.


Are you really that gullible? You said: “give the Trump Russian conspiracy rest. The FBI has already concluded that Trump has no links to Russia.” In response to your bogus claim, I gave you the reference/link to shows you that the FBI is still continuing with the investigation, now, at this time, nobody knows where these investigations (remember, five men were arrested that led to the resignation of president Nixon *Link*) will lead.

The other point is, the New York Times article that you quoted is of *November 2016*, clearly, looks like you’re not very up to date, now, read this: 

Note, the report is from *January 6, 2017*

“We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump. We have high confidence in these judgments.

We also assess Putin and the Russian Government aspired to help President-elect Trump’s election chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably to him. All three agencies agree with this judgment. *CIA and FBI have high confidence in this judgment*; NSA has moderate confidence.” *Link*



> Blah.. blah..blah. Mostly a bunch of disgruntled political hack Democrats and a handful of Rupblicans that openly hate Russians are kicking up dirt. They can launch as many inquiries as they want, *the FBI has already concluded Trump had no connection to Russia*. That is a hard pill to swallow for libs.


“Handful of Republicans”, really? clearly, you really don’t know what the heck you’re talking about. Since Republicans are in majority in the Congress, all of these important committees Chairman’s are Republicans as well as majority of its members. *Link*

FBI is still continuing the investigation, so please, stop repeating rubbish.



ptldM3 said:


> I'm hoping for your sake and dignity you are drunk because I find it hard to believe a sober person can be this foolish. The democrat sock puppet asked Sessions if he had contacts with Russians during the campaign. He truthfully answer no. He met with the Russian embassador 2 times prior to being involved with the Trump campaign but that is not what was asked


Looks like you just made that story up, didn’t you?  Let me give you some facts here:

On February 28, 2016 Jeff Sessions becomes the first senator to endorse Trump for president.

*On March 3, 2016* Trump announces Sessions will lead his national security advisory committee. *Link*

New York, NY) March 3rd, 2016 – Today Donald J. Trump announced Senator Jeff Sessions, who has advised the GOP frontrunner on issues such as trade and immigration and endorsed Mr. Trump on Sunday in Alabama, will serve as Chairman of Mr. Trump’s National Security Advisory Committee.

Mr. Trump stated, “It is an honor to have Jeff as a member of the team.

Senator Sessions added, "I am grateful for the opportunity to recommend and facilitate discussions among exceptional and experienced American military and diplomatic leaders to share insight and advice with Donald Trump.

On *July 18, 2016* Jeff sessions spoke with Sergey I. Kislyak, the Russian ambassador, during the Republican National Convention.

On *Sept. 8, 2016* Sessions and two of his senior aides meet with *Kislyak* in Sessions’s Senate office.

*Jan. 10, 2017* At the confirmation hearing for attorney general, *Senator Al Franken*, a Democrat, asks Mr. Sessions what he would do if “there is any evidence that anyone affiliated
with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign.” *Sessions* replies, “I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign, and I didn’t have —did not have communications with the Russians, and I’m unable to comment on it.”

*Jan. 10, 2017* *Senator Patrick J. Leahy,* a Democrat, asks Mr. Sessions in a written questionnaire whether he had been “in contact with anyone connected to any part of the Russian government about the 2016 election, either before or after Election Day.” Mr. Sessions replies, “No.”

March 1, 2017 *The Washington Post* reports that Sessions met twice with *Kislyak.*

The fact is, he was working for Trump’s campaign, when he testified under oath “I did not have communication with the Russians” he was not being truthful, only after the Washington Post broke the news and he was caught red handed, he came up with more lame excuses, absolutely pathetic.

So now, what say you?

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## ptldM3

@RabzonKhan were you not one of the many liberals that was occussing Trump of not paying any taxes for the last 20 years?

*Turns out he payed more then 38 million in taxes* *in 2005. *Trump Was taxed at over 25%, while Sanders payed just 13%. He payed 100s of millions in taxes but for some bum liberals that have never contributed to society that is not enough.

Liberals being exposed for being liars again. Proof once again the liberals put out fake news, and I love the scoundrel Racheal madcow bragging and brandishing stolen financial information. How dare weki leaks expose corrupt Democrats but stealing personal tax information and showing it to millions is fine.


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## RabzonKhan

There goes Trumps Muslim ban part two, I’m loving it. 








*Federal judges block Trump's travel ban*

By Laura Jarrett, CNN March 16, 2017

(CNN) Two federal judges have temporarily blocked President Donald Trump's travel ban, both citing Trump's statements about Muslims during the presidential campaign as part of their rulings.

A ruling by a federal judge in Hawaii Wednesday resulted in a temporary restraining order nationwide, hours before it was set to go into effect. In a decision published Thursday morning, another federal judge in Maryland specifically blocked the 90-day ban on immigration for citizens of six Muslim-majority countries.
In a 43-page ruling, US District Court Judge Derrick Watson, who presides in Honolulu, concluded in no uncertain terms that the new executive order failed to pass legal muster at this stage and the state had established "a strong likelihood of success" on their claims of religious discrimination.

Trump decried Watson's ruling during a rally Wednesday night in Nashville, introducing his statement as "the bad, the sad news."
"The order he blocked was a watered-down version of the first one," Trump said, as the crowd booed the news.

"This is, in the opinion of many, an unprecedented judicial overreach," he added, before pledging to take the issue to the Supreme Court if necessary.
The practical effect of Watson's ruling -- which applies nationwide -- is that travelers from six Muslim-majority countries and refugees will be able to travel to the US.
Unlike the previous executive order, the new one removed Iraq from the list of banned countries, exempted those with green cards and visas and removed a provision that arguably prioritizes certain religious minorities.

The new ban was announced earlier this month and was set to take effect Thursday. It would have banned people from Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen from entering the US for 90 days and all refugees for 120 days.

"The illogic of the Government's contentions is palpable. The notion that one can demonstrate animus toward any group of people only by targeting all of them at once is fundamentally flawed," Watson wrote.

"Equally flawed is the notion that the Executive Order cannot be found to have targeted Islam because it applies to all individuals in the six referenced countries," Watson added. "It is undisputed, using the primary source upon which the Government itself relies, that these six countries have overwhelmingly Muslim populations that range from 90.7% to 99.8%." *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

What a childish behavior!







Trump apparently refused to shake German Chancellor Merkel’s hand during a joint appearance at the White House.

Photographers, can we get a handshake…….Merkel whispers to Trump, do you want to have a handshake…….Trump ignores her request (absolutely disgusting)…….Merkel, makes awkward face.









British novelist, best known as the author of the Harry Potter fantasy series. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/843013819597312000

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## T-72M1




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## RabzonKhan

I’m watching House select intelligence committee’s hearing:

Russian interference in our elections,

Trump campaigns links with Russia 

Trump’s bogus claims that former Pres. Obama ordered a wiretap on Trump Tower.

NSA Dir. Adm. Michael Rogers and FBI director James Comey are testifying.

FBI director Comey drop two bombshells,

First, he completely rejected Pres. Trump’s claim that Pres. Obama had ordered a wiretap on Trump Tower.

Second, he confirmed that the FBI is investigating links between Pres. Trump campaign's links to Russia’s election interference.

I’ll post more after the hearing is completed.

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## F-22Raptor

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 385346
> 
> 
> I’m watching House select intelligence committee’s hearing:
> 
> Russian interference in our elections,
> 
> Trump campaigns links with Russia
> 
> Trump’s bogus claims that former Pres. Obama ordered a wiretap on Trump Tower.
> 
> NSA Dir. Adm. Michael Rogers and FBI director James Comey are testifying.
> 
> FBI director Comey drop two bombshells,
> 
> First, he completely rejected Pres. Trump’s claim that Pres. Obama had ordered a wiretap on Trump Tower.



Rep. Speier: "Is Russia our adversary?"

Comey: "Yes"
Rogers: "Yes"

This just confirms why it's so important to get to the bottom of the Trump-Russia story.

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## F-22Raptor

Trump has asked Paul Ryan to pull his health care bill due to lack of support in the House. Big loss for Trump...

Apparently Ryan told some reps that health care is basically dead for the rest of Congress. This is a massive blow for Trump and his team.

Paul Ryan just now, "Obamacare is the law of the land."

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## F-22Raptor

1. Trump lost the popular vote by the largest margin ever.
2. Travel ban failed twice
3. Mexico won't pay for the wall
4. Trumpcare failed
5. His administration is under investigation by the FBI
6. Trump's a pathological liar

When does the winning start?

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## LA se Karachi

*Nunes admits meeting with source of Trump surveillance documents on White House grounds*






_House Intelligence Committee Chair Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) apologized to colleagues, March 23, after facing backlash for going to the White House before consulting them about what he said was fresh intelligence about surveillance of the president. (Reuters)_


*The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee acknowledged Monday that he had made a secret visit to the White House last week to view intelligence files he then cited as proof of potentially improper spying activity against President Trump, casting new doubt on the independence of a congressional investigation into Russian election interference.

The admission by Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) triggered calls among Democrats for his removal as chairman of the House panel, and bipartisan appeals for an independent probe of Kremlin meddling in the 2016 election and potential connections between Russia and Trump associates.*

The committee’s ranking Democrat, Adam B. Schiff (Calif.), called late Monday for Nunes to “recuse himself from any further involvement in the Russia investigation” and all “oversight matters pertaining to any incidental collection of the Trump transition,” noting Nunes was a member of Trump’s transition team.

*The development coincided with the disclosure that Trump’s son-in-law and close adviser, Jared Kushner, had privately met in December with the chief executive of a Russian bank being targeted by U.S. sanctions, and that Kushner has agreed to discuss such contacts with the Senate Intelligence Committee.*

Trump administration officials sought to play down the significance of both developments, describing Kushner’s contacts as inconsequential and refusing to answer questions about the Nunes visit. “I’m not going to get into who he met with or why he met with them,” White House spokesman Sean Spicer said.

*The meeting with a source and his review of intelligence material apparently occurred in a secure space for handling classified files within the Old Executive Office Building adjacent to the White House. Nunes returned to the White House the next day — bypassing colleagues on the House committee — supposedly to brief Trump on what he had learned.*

*The attempts to keep such matters hidden from public view, however, added to the perception that the Trump administration has failed to be forthcoming about contacts with Russia and is working with allies on Capitol Hill to blunt congressional probes.*

The Senate’s top Democrat said that House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) should remove Nunes to salvage that chamber’s investigation of Moscow influence. “If Speaker Ryan wants the House to have a credible investigation, he needs to replace Chairman Nunes,” Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) said.

*Schiff said, “There was no legitimate justification for bringing that information to the White House instead of the committee. That it was also obtained at the White House makes this departure all the more concerning.”*

*Asked about Nunes’s White House visit, Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said, “Not good. It’s not a confidence builder.” He said “we’re rapidly getting” to the point where a select committee or independent commission is need to conduct the investigation into Russian meddling. *

Nunes said in an interview Monday that no one in the Republican leadership had asked him to step aside, and he defended his actions as part of an attempt to investigate potential misconduct by U.S. spy agencies against Trump associates.

“Everybody is worried by process and they should be worried about what I’ve actually said about what I’ve seen,” Nunes said, when asked whether it was proper for him to visit the White House under those circumstances. “Why all the worry about where I saw information? We go to the White House all the time, our job is providing oversight of the executive branch.”

Nunes had previously refused to say how or where he had seen classified files he cited in a hastily arranged news conference last week, saying that he had obtained troubling evidence that U.S. spy agencies “incidentally collected information about U.S. citizens involved in the Trump transition.”

At a time when the White House was struggling to defend Trump’s baseless accusation that he had been wiretapped under orders issued by then-President Barack Obama, the Nunes assertion helped shift public attention and, to some, cast Trump as a victim of espionage abuse.

*In reality, Nunes appeared to be referring to legitimate intelligence operations against foreign individuals who were either in contact with Trump associates or mentioned them in conversations that were monitored as part of routine U.S. surveillance. Nunes reiterated Monday that he has seen no evidence of illegality.*

*Current and former national security officials described Nunes’s trip to the White House complex, apparently late in the evening after he had slipped away from his staff, as highly unusual. Doing so would ordinarily require Nunes and the person he met with to have been cleared in advance and accompanied by an escort — requirements that seemed to undercut White House claims to have no information about the encounter.*

“How incredibly irregular,” said Matt Olsen, who served in the Obama administration as the head of the National Counterterrorism Center and the general counsel at the National Security Agency. “The only explanation you’re left with is that this is all being orchestrated by the White House.”

*Nunes again declined to disclose with whom he met, citing the need “to protect people who bring information to the committee, and I’m going to protect my source.” His office said he met the source on the White House grounds.*

The House Intelligence Committee is authorized to handle classified information and routinely meets with officials — including whistleblowers — from U.S. spy agencies.

Nunes spokesman Jack Langer said that because of limitations on House computer systems, Nunes could not have used secure facilities at the Capitol to review the files. He added that “the White House grounds was the best location to safeguard the proper chain of custody and classification of these documents.”

Nunes has said that the documents include references to Trump advisers and associates, but do not pertain to Russia. In the past few days, former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and former campaign advisers Carter Page and Roger Stone volunteered to make themselves available for interviews with the Senate and House Intelligence committees.

On Monday, officials from the White House and Senate said that Kushner had also offered himself for an interview with the Senate Intelligence Committee, at a date yet to be determined. The development was first reported by the New York Times.

A senior congressional official said Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr (R-N.C.) spoke with the White House counsel “some weeks ago” to warn that the panel would be seeking to speak with administration officials, including Kushner. The White House indicated to the committee over the weekend that Kushner would be willing to participate.

*The White House had previously disclosed that Kushner met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak at Trump Tower in December, a session also attended by former national security adviser Michael Flynn, who was fired for lying about the nature of his contacts with Kislyak.*

*On Monday, the White House acknowledged a previously undisclosed meeting between Kushner and Sergey N. Gorkov, chief of Russian government-owned Vnesheconombank. The bank, which handles Russia’s pension funds and deals with development activity for the state, including foreign debts and investments, has been under U.S. sanctions since July 2014, in response to Russia’s intervention in Ukraine. *

*The bank also has been tied to Russian intelligence services.*

*In early 2015, one of the bank’s New York-based employees, Evgeny Buryakov, was arrested and accused of being an unregistered spy for Russia’s foreign intelligence service, working with two Russian diplomats who were also secretly acting as spies. According to the U.S. government, they collected information about U.S. sanctions against Russia, and American efforts to develop alternative energy resources. 

Buryakov pleaded guilty in March 2016 to conspiring to act as an agent of a foreign government, though he never admitted to being an employee of Russia’s foreign intelligence service.*

Spicer defended Kushner’s meetings, saying that he was the “official primary point of contact” with foreign governments and officials during the campaign and transition period.

Robert Costa and Devlin Barrett contributed to this report.


_https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...489b735b3a3_story.html?utm_term=.41f5cd697a21_

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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 385346
> 
> 
> I’m watching House select intelligence committee’s hearing:
> 
> Russian interference in our elections,
> 
> Trump campaigns links with Russia
> 
> Trump’s bogus claims that former Pres. Obama ordered a wiretap on Trump Tower.
> 
> NSA Dir. Adm. Michael Rogers and FBI director James Comey are testifying.
> 
> FBI director Comey drop two bombshells,
> 
> First, he completely rejected Pres. Trump’s claim that Pres. Obama had ordered a wiretap on Trump Tower.
> 
> Second, he confirmed that the FBI is investigating links between Pres. Trump campaign's links to Russia’s election interference.
> 
> I’ll post more after the hearing is completed.









Sorry, got little busy.

Below are the Key highlights from the hearing:

FBI director James Comey confirmed at the hearing what long has been reported in the liberal media that the FBI is investigating Russia’s interference during the presidential election, including possible links between the Trump campaign and the Russians to influence the election and any coordination between them. He described it as a “counterintelligence investigation”, and that “also include an assessment of whether any crimes were committed”.







Comey also clearly said that the Russian wanted to help Trump win the election:







Rep. Adam Schiff is the ranking member of the House intelligence committee hearing on Russian interference in the 2016 US election.

His opening statement is little long, but worth the read:





Rep. Schiff Opening Statement Laying Out Facts of Russia Investigation

Adam Schiff, Last summer at the height of a bitterly contested and hugely consequential presidential campaign, a foreign adversarial power intervened in an effort to weaken our democracy and to influence the outcome for one candidate and against the other. That foreign adversary was of course Russia and it activated through its intelligence agencies and upon the direct instructions of its autocratic ruler Vladimir Putin, in order to help Donald J. Trump become the 45th president of the United States.

The Russian active measures campaign may have begun as early as 2015, when Russian intelligence services launched a series of spear fishing attacks designed to penetrate the computers of a broad array of Washington based Democratic and Republican party organizations, think tanks and other entities. This continued at least through the winter of 2016.

While at first the hacking may have been intended solely for the collection of foreign intelligence. In mid-2016 the Russians weapon eyes the stolen data and used platforms established by the Intel services, such as D.C. leaks in existing third-party channels like WikiLeaks to dump the documents. The stolen documents were almost uniformly damaging to the candidate Putin despised, Hillary Clinton. And by forcing her campaign to constantly respond to the daily drip of disclosures, the releases greatly benefited Donald Trump's campaign.

None of these facts is seriously in question. And they're reflected in the consensus conclusion of our intelligence agencies. We will never know whether the Russian intervention was determinative in such a close election. Indeed, it is unknowable in a campaign to which so many small changes could have dictated a different result. More importantly, and for the purposes of our investigation, it simply does not matter.

What does matter is this, the Russians successfully meddled in our democracy and our intelligence agencies have concluded they will do so again. Ours is not the first democracy to be attacked by the Russians in this way. Russian intelligence has been simile interfering in the internal and political affairs of our European and other allies for decades.

SCHIFF: What is striking here is the degree to which the Russians were willing to undertake such an audacious and risky action against the most powerful nation on Earth. That ought to be a warning to us that if we thought that the Russians would not dare to so blatantly interfere in our affairs, we were wrong.
And if we do not do our very best to understand how the Russians accomplished this unprecedented attack on our democracy and what we need to do to protect ourselves in the future, we will only have ourselves to blame. We know a lot about the Russian operation, about the way they amplified the damage their hacking and dumping of stolen documents was causing through the use of slick propaganda like R.T., the Kremlin's media arm. But there is a lot we don't know.

Most important, we do not yet know whether the Russians have the help of U.S. citizens including people associated with the Trump campaign. Many of the Trump's campaign personnel, including the president himself, have ties to Russia and Russian interests. This is of course no crime. On the other hand, if the Trump campaign or anyone associated with it aided or abetted the Russians, it would not only be a serious crime, it would also represent one of the most shocking betrayals of democracy in history.

In Europe, where the Russians have a much longer history of political interference, they've used a variety of techniques to undermine democracy. They employed the hacking and dumping of documents and slick propaganda as they clearly did here. But they've also used bribery, blackmail, compromising material, and financial entanglement to secure needed cooperation from individual citizens of targeted countries.

The issue of U.S. person involvement is only one of the important matters that the chairman and I have agreed to investigate and which is memorialized in the detailed and bipartisan scope of investigation that we have signed. We'll also examine whether the intelligence community's assessment of the Russian operation is supported by the raw intelligence, whether the U.S. government responded properly or missed the opportunity to stop this Russian attack much earlier and whether the leak of information about Michael Flynn or others is indicative of a systemic problem.

We have also reviewed whether there is any evidence to support President Trump's claim that he was wiretapped by President Obama in Trump Tower and found no evidence whatsoever to support that slanderous accusation. And we hope that Director Comey can now put that matter permanently to rest. Today, most of my Democratic colleagues will be exploring with the witnesses the potential involvement of U.S. persons in the Russian attack on our democracy. It is not that we feel the other issues are less important; they are very important, but rather because this issue is least understood by the public. We realize of course that the witnesses may not be able to answer many of the questions in open session.

They may or may not be willing to disclose even whether there is an investigation. But we hope to present to you directors and the public why we believe this is a matter of such gravity that it demands a thorough investigation not only by us as we intend to do but by the FBI as well.

Let me give you a short preview of what I expect you'll be asked by our members. Whether the Russian active measures campaign began as nothing more than an attempt to gather intelligence or was always intended to be more than that, we do not know and is one of the questions we hope to answer. But we do know this; the months of July and August 2016 appear to have been pivotal.

It was at this time the Russians began using the information they had stolen to help Donald Trump and harm Hillary Clinton. And so the question is, why? What was happening in July, August of last year and were U.S. persons involved? Here are some of the matters drawn from public sources alone since that is all we can discuss in this setting that concern us and we believe should concern all Americans.

In early July, Carter Page, someone candidate Trump identified as one of his national security advisors, travels to Moscow on a trip approved by the Trump campaign. While in Moscow, he gives a speech critical of the United States and other western countries for what he believes is a hypocritical focus on democratization and efforts to fight corruption.

According to Christopher Steele, a British — a former British intelligence officer, who is reportedly held in high regard by U.S. intelligence, Russian sources tell him that Page has also had a secret meeting with Igor Sechin, CEO of the Russian gas giant, Rosneft. Sechin is reported to be a former KGB agent and close friend of Putin's.

According to Steele's Russian sources, Page is offered brokerage fees by such an on a deal involving a 19 percent share of the company. According to Reuters, the sale of a 19.5 percent share of Rosneft later takes place with unknown purchasers and unknown brokerage fees. Also, according to Steele's Russian sources, the campaign has offered documents damaging to Hillary Clinton which the Russians would publish through an outlet that gives them deniability like WikiLeaks.

The hacked documents would be in exchange for a Trump administration policy that de-emphasizes Russia's invasion of Ukraine and instead focuses on criticizing NATO countries for not paying their fair share. Policies which even as recently as the President's meeting last week with Angela Merkel have now presently come to pass. In the middle of July, Paul Manafort, the — the Trump campaign manager and someone who was a long on the payroll of Pro Russian- Ukrainian interests attends the Russian — the Republican Party Convention. Carter Page, back from Moscow, also attends the convention. According to Steele, it was Manafort who chose Page to serve as a go-between for the Trump campaign and Russian interests.

Ambassador Kislyak, who presides over a Russian Embassy in which diplomatic personnel would later be expelled as likely spies, also attends the Republican Party Convention and meets with Carter Page, and additional Trump advisors J.D. Gordon and Walid Phares. It was J.D. Gordon who approved Page's trip to Moscow.

Ambassador Kislyac also meets with Trump national campaign chair, National Security Campaign Chair and now attorney general, Jeff Sessions. Sessions would later deny meeting with Russian officials during his Senate confirmation hearing. Just prior to the convention, the Republican Party platform is changed, removing a section that supports the provision of lethal defensive weapons to Ukraine, an action that would be contrary to Russian interests.

Manafort categorically denies involvement by the Trump campaign and altering the platform, but the Republican Party delegate who offered the language in support of providing defensive weapons to Ukraine states it was removed at the insistence of the Trump campaign. Later, J.D. Gordon admits opposing the inclusion of the provision of the time it was being debated and prior to its being removed.

Later in July and after the convention, the first stolen emails detrimental to Hillary Clinton appear on WikiLeaks. A hacker who goes by the moniker, Guccifer 2.0, claims responsibility for hacking the DNC and giving the documents to WikiLeaks. A leading private cyber security firms including Crowdstrike, Mandiant and ThreatConnect review the evidence of the hack and conclude with high certainty that it was the work of APT 28 and APT 29 who are known to be Russian intelligence services.

The U.S. intelligence committee also later confirms that the documents were in fact stolen by Russian intelligence and Guccifer 2.0 acted as a front. Also in late July, candidate Trump praises WikiLeaks, says he loves them and openly appeals to the Russians to hack his opponents emails telling them that they will be richly rewarded by the press.

On August 8th, Roger Stone, a long time Trump political advisor and self-proclaimed political dirty trickster, boasts in his speech that he has communicated with Assange and that more documents would be coming, including an October surprise. In the middle of August, he also communicates with the Russian cut out Guccifer 2.0 and authors a Breitbart piece denying Guccifer's links to Russian intelligence.

*Then later, in August, Stone does something truly remarkable. When he predicts that John Podesta's personal emails will soon be published, trust me he says, it will soon be Podesta's time in the barrel, #crookedHillary. In the weeks that follow, Stone shows remarkable prescience. I have total confidence that WikiLeaks and my hero, Julian Assange will educate the American people soon, he says, #LockHerUp. Payload coming, he predicts and two days later it does.

WikiLeaks releases its first batch of Podesta emails. The release of John Podesta's emails would then continue on a daily basis, up until the election. On Election Day in November, Donald Trump wins. Donald Trump appoints one of his high-profile surrogates, Michael Flynn, to be his national security advisor. Michael Flynn has been paid by the Kremlin's propaganda outfit RT in the past, as well as another Russian entity.*

*In December, Michael Flynn has a secret conversation with Ambassador Kislyak, about sanctions imposed by President Obama on Russia over attacking designed to help the Trump campaign. Michael Flynn lies about the secret conversation. The vice president unknowingly then assures the country that no — no such conversation ever happened. The president is informed that Flynn has lied and Pence has misled the country. The president does nothing.*

Two weeks later, the press reveals that Flynn has lied and the president is forced to fire Mr. Flynn. The president then praises the man who lied, Mr. Flynn, and castigates the press for exposing the lie.

*Now, is it possible that the removal of the Ukraine provision from the GOP platform was a coincidence? Is it a coincidence that Jeff Sessions failed to tell the Senate about his meetings with a Russian ambassador, not only at the convention, but a more private meeting in his office and at a time when the U.S. election was under attack by the Russians?*

*Is it a coincidence that Michael Flynn would lie about a conversation he had with the same Russian Ambassador Kislyak, about the most pressing issue facing both countries at the time they spoke, the U.S. imposition of sanctions over Russian hacking of our election designed to help Donald Trump?* Is it a coincidence that the Russian gas company, Rosneft, sold a 19 percent share after former British intelligence officer Steele was told by Russian sources that Carter Page was offered fees on a deal of just that size?

Is it a coincidence that Steele's Russian sources also affirmed that Russian had stolen documents hurtful to Secretary Clinton that it would utilize in exchange for Pro Russian policies that would later come to pass? *Is it a coincidence that Roger Stone predicted that John Podesta would be a victim of a Russian hack and have his private emails published and did so even before Mr. Podesta himself, was fully aware that his private emails would be exposed?*

Is it possible that all of these events and reports are completely unrelated and nothing more than an entirely unhappy coincidence? Yes, it is possible. But it is also possible, maybe more than possible, that they are not coincidental, not disconnected and not unrelated and that the Russians use the same techniques to corrupt U.S. persons that they employed in Europe and elsewhere. We simply don't know, not yet. And we owe it to the country to find out.

Transcript of Schiff's Opening Statement was from the Washington Post *Link*

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## RabzonKhan

*Senate Intelligence Chairman: Our Investigation on Russia's Election Meddling Will Go Wherever The Facts Lead
*
Katie Pavlich
Mar 29, 2017

Speaking to reporters on Capitol Hill Wednesday afternoon, Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr and Ranking Member Mark Warner gave an update about their investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election.

"Our staff is currently working though thousands of intelligence and analytic products," Burr said, adding they are waiting for additional documents from the intelligence community related to their investigation. "This investigation will go absolutely wherever the intelligence leads it."

*Burr revealed seven full time staff members from the Committee are working on the investigation and have been provided an unprecedented number of documents currently being analyzed.*

*This week, Burr and Warner scheduled the first interviews of the probe. They've sent 20 requests to individuals they would not name. Five have already been confirmed and scheduled. They also said a number of people have volunteered for interviews, including White House senior advisor Jared Kushner. *

*The goals of the investigation are simple and include finding out the extent of Russia's influence on the 2016 election in addition to investigating any collusion between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin.* 

"We're here to assure you, and more importantly the American people watching, we're going to get to the bottom of this," Warner said. "This is the most important thing I've done in my professional career. We're going to get it right."

Burr and Warner refused to take questions about the controversy surrounding House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes, who is under fire for sharing information about his Committee's investigation into Russia with the White House. He's been asked to recuse himself by Republicans and Democrats. 

*The Senate Intelligence Committee investigation is one of three about Russia's meddling. The FBI is also criminally investigating a number of individuals who worked on the Trump campaign for possible ties to Russia.* *Link*



*







The pressure on Nunes is intensifying. He won’t be able to hold off a reckoning forever.*

If not now, when?

New signs of increased pressure on House Intelligence Committee Devin Nunes are emerging that could complicate his efforts to prevent a serious investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election and possible collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign. Yet most Republicans are still standing by him. What will it take to change this?

*The hits on Nunes keep on coming. His hometown newspaper, the Fresno Bee, editorialized this week that his conduct has been “inept and bewildering” as he “betrayed the Constitution and its separation of powers by running like an errand boy to the White House.” A writer at the conservative National Review bluntly called on Nunes to step down, pointedly asking “why is Devin Nunes still chair of the House Intelligence Committee” when the country “needs leaders. It needs competence. It needs integrity.”*

*A few Republicans are turning on Nunes. Rep. Charlie Dent, a moderate Pennsylvania Republican, is calling for the Senate Intelligence Committee to take the lead on the Russia investigation, characterizing the House investigation as “paralyzed.” Meanwhile, Trump’s approval in Gallup hit a new low today of 35 percent, which theoretically should induce Republicans to contemplate whether it might soon be time to distance themselves from him.*

Yet Nunes has cavalierly dismissed calls that he step aside. Sen. John McCain has called for a bipartisan select committee to investigate, and Sen. Lindsay Graham has questioned Nunes’ “objectivity,” but very few other Republicans have joined them.

*Still, the optics of this story are just getting worse and worse for Nunes. On Monday, Democrats on the Intelligence Committee called for Nunes to step down, following his admission that the source for the classified information he refused to share with his colleagues — and which he claimed proved that Trump campaign associates were targets of U.S. spying — came from inside the White House itself.*

What’s more, new press reports will make it increasingly difficult for Nunes, by fleshing out the ways in which Trump’s ties to Russia may extend beyond an admiration for President Vladimir Putin or an intention to recast U.S. foreign policy in the region.* Media scrutiny is focusing daily on Trump’s financial ties with Russian oligarchs. As Reuters reported earlier this month, dozens of people with Russian passports or addresses have spent nearly $100 million on Trump-branded luxury properties in Florida, including businessmen with political, military, and intelligence connections. This week brought new reports of meetings between Trump’s son-in-law and advisor, Jared Kushner, and the head of a state-owned Russian bank with close ties to President Vladimir Putin. And a new USA Today piece raises additional questions about Russian investments in Trump real estate holdings.*

*Trump vehemently denies any business dealings with Russia. But his unprecedented refusal to disclose his tax returns has effectively blocked scrutiny of his financial dealings *— a fact that is highlighted by the continued drumbeat of reporting that is revealing how little we really know, and by Democrats who are all too happy to remind everyone of Trump’s lack of transparency in the context of the Russia story.

*Indeed, Democrats are increasingly focusing attention on Trump’s financial ties, seeing this as fertile ground for potential new revelations. Sen. Ron Wyden, the Oregon Democrat, has formally asked the Senate Intelligence Committee, which is running its own investigation, to examine Trump’s financial ties to Russia.* As Wyden wrote to his Committee colleagues: “Efforts to understand these relationships and to separate fact from speculation have been hampered by the opacity of the finances of President Trump and his associates.”

On the House side, Trump is getting a huge assist from Nunes. But if his Senate counterparts heed Wyden’s call, Nunes’ collaboration with the White House could start to look even thornier than it does now. Nunes cannot hold to this posture forever. *Link*

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## RabzonKhan

The Senate Intelligence Committee held its first hearing on Russian interference in the 2016 election today. A panel of foreign policy scholars were invited to provide an analysis of Russia’s international agenda and its disinformation propaganda methods against the West.

The following are the eye-opening testimonies of two experts:


*RUSSIAN ACTIVE MEASURES AND INFLUENCE CAMPAIGNS *

Eugene B. Rumer Senior Fellow and Director Russia and Eurasia Program Carnegie Endowment for International Peace Testimony before U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence March 30, 2017

Chairman Burr, Vice Chairman Warner, distinguished members of Senate Select Committee on Intelligence! It is a great honor to appear here today. The issue before this panel is Russian active measures and influence campaigns. It rose to the top of our national agenda in 2016, when we became aware of Russian interference in our presidential campaign. *It remains one of the most contentious issues in our national conversation, for the very idea that another nation could put at risk the integrity of our country’s most essential institution—the process of electing our president—is hard for us to comprehend. *

*I would like to state at the outset that based on media reporting, on statements of senior U.S. and other countries’ law enforcement and intelligence officials, and my professional experience as a student of Russian foreign policy, I am convinced that Russian intelligence services, their proxies, and other related actors directly intervened in our election in 2016.*

You might ask why I am so confident of this. I have not seen the classified evidence that supports the findings presented in the Intelligence Community Assessment “Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections” published by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence on January 6, 2017. Some observers have been critical of that Assessment for not presenting detailed evidence of Russian cyber intrusions or covert activities. *They miss the mark—it is the totality of the Russian effort to interfere, mislead, misinform, outright falsify, influence, etc. that is just as, if not more convincing than the cyber evidence of the Russian break in into the Democratic National Committee (DNC) server and other intrusions. *

That Russian effort is before us in plain sight—in state-sponsored propaganda broadcasts on RT (Russia Today), in countless internet trolls, fake or distorted news spread by fake news services, *in the recent Kremlin get together of Russian president Vladimir Putin with the French far right presidential candidate Marine Le Pen. The list can go on. That effort is also an integral part of Russian foreign policy and domestic politics. *

It’s More than the Economy To understand why the Russian government is engaged in this large-scale and diversified influence operation, which blends overt and covert activities, one needs to step back and put it in the context of events of the quarter century since the end of the Cold War. Every country’s foreign policy is a product of its history, its geography, and its politics. Russia is no exception to this rule, and to understand the pattern of Russian behavior at home and abroad, we need to look at Russian history, Russian geography, and Russian domestic politics.

War in Europe is integral to the formative experience of every Russian. The country’s national narrative is impossible without the record of two wars—the Patriotic War of 1812, which Russians view as a war of liberation from Napoleon’s invasion of Russia, and the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945. Both wars were fought to liberate Patria, the Fatherland, from foreign occupiers. In 1812, Napoleon entered Moscow and the city was burned. In 1941, Hitler’s armies were stopped 2 just outside the city limits of Moscow. Americans, too, had their war of 1812, and Washington too was burned, but few Russians know or remember it, just as they think little of the fighting in the Pacific theater against Japan in the second world war. Stalin’s armies didn’t enter it until nearly the very end, three months after the war in Europe ended.

The end of the Great Patriotic War is celebrated in Russia every year as a great national holiday on May 9. The greatest Russian novel of all times is Leo Tolstoy’s War and Peace, all Russians read it in high school. They are also taught in history classes that their country’s greatest accomplishment of the 20th century was the defeat of fascism in the Great Patriotic War. The war of 1812 ended for Russia when the armies of Tsar Alexander I entered Paris in 1814. The Great Patriotic War ended in 1945 when Stalin’s armies entered Berlin. From 1945 to 1989, when the Berlin Wall came down, Russia was at its most secure, or so successive generations of Russian leaders have been taught to believe. The history and the strategy taught in Russian military academies for decades after it ended were the history and the strategy of the Great Patriotic War.

The map for tabletop exercises at the Military Academy of the General Staff in 2001 was a giant map of the European theater. U.S. strategists were by that time “done” with Europe and shifting their focus from the Balkan edge of the continent to South Asia and the Middle East. Russia was not “done” with Europe. *Little appreciated in the West at the time was the trauma suffered by the Russian national security establishment when it lost its outer and inner security buffers—the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet empire. The sense of physical security afforded by this dual buffer between NATO’s armies and the Russian heartland was gone.*

Russian declaratory policy may have been to sign on to the 1990 Charter of Paris as the Cold War ended, but the historical legacy and the geography of Russian national security could not be altered with the stroke of a pen. Even as the Communist system was dismantled and the Soviet Union disbanded, Russia’s national security establishment, which had been brought up for generations to think in terms of hard power, could not and did not embrace the new vision of European security based on shared values.

In 1991, with their society in turmoil, their economy in tatters, their military in retreat from the outer and inner empires, and their country literally falling apart, Russian leaders had no choice but to go along with that vision. They also accepted as given that history is written by the victors, and that the victors would also make the rules for the new era. Russia would have to go along with it for as long as it remained weak.

The 1990s were a terrible decade for Russia. Its domestic politics remained in turmoil, its economy limped from one crisis to the next, and its international standing—only recently that of a superpower—collapsed. Western students of Russia were entertaining the prospect of a world without Russia. It was not lost on Russian political elites that the 1990s were also a time of great prosperity and global influence for the West. For them, brought up on the idea of importance of hard power, the dominance of the West was inextricably tied to its victory in the Cold War, the defeat of Russia, its retreat from the world stage, and the expansion of the West in its wake. 3 Russia Is Back But Russia would not remain weak indefinitely.

Its economic recovery after the turn of the century, buoyed by soaring global prices for commodities and hydrocarbons, and its domestic political consolidation around Vladimir Putin and his brand of increasingly authoritarian leadership, so different from the leadership of Boris Yeltsin, have laid the groundwork for a return to Russia’s more assertive posture on the world stage.

That increasingly assertive posture has manifested itself on multiple occasions and in different forms over the past decade and a half—in Vladimir Putin’s speech at the Munich Security Conference in 2007; in the war with Georgia in 2008 and the statement in its aftermath by then president Dmitry Medvedev about Russia’s claim to a sphere of “privileged interests” around its periphery; and finally in the annexation of Crimea in 2014 and the undeclared war in eastern Ukraine to keep Ukraine from slipping from Russia’s orbit.

*For the West, Russia’s return to the world stage has been nothing more than pure revanchism. It violates the basic, core principles of the post-Cold War European security architecture—which Russia pledged to observe over a quarter-century ago. For Russia, it is restoring a balance—not the old balance, but some semblance of it. Currently, NATO troops are deployed to deter Russian aggression against Estonia. (Curiously, former speaker of the House Newt Gingrich has described it as the “suburbs of St. Petersburg.”) Russia’s security establishment views this commitment by NATO countries to its vulnerable ally as a threat to the heartland.*

The narrative of restoring the balance, correcting the injustice and the distortions of the 1990s, when the West took advantage of Russia’s weakness, has been the essential element of Russian state-sponsored propaganda since the beginning of the Putin era. Whether or not we choose to accept this narrative, these beliefs undergird Russia’s comeback on the world stage and political consolidation at home.

*In public and private, top Russian officials proclaim that the wars in Georgia and Ukraine were fought to prevent Western encroachment on territories vital to Russian security. The military deployment in Syria merely restores Russia’s traditional foothold in the Middle East, from which Russia withdrew when it was weak, and where it was replaced by the West with consequences that have been tragic for the entire region. *

In domestic politics, Putin’s authoritarian restoration is treated by the majority of average and elite members of Russian society as the return to the country’s traditional political health, free from foreign interference in its political and economic life. The more pluralistic system and dramatic decline of the 1990s are linked in this narrative to the influence of the United States and other foreign interests in Russia’s economy and politics, to their desire to introduce alien values in Russia’s political culture and take Russia’s oil. U.S. support for Russian civil society is an effort to undermine the Russian state, to bring Russia back to its knees, and take advantage of it, both at home and abroad.

*Western economic sanctions imposed on Russia in the wake of its annexation of Crimea and the undeclared war in eastern Ukraine are a form of warfare designed to weaken Russia and gain unfair advantage over it. Western support for democracy in countries around Russia’s periphery is an effort to encircle it and weaken it too. This narrative has dominated the airwaves inside Russia, where the Kremlin controls the television, which is the principal medium that delivers news to most Russians.*

With independent media in retreat and alternative sources of information marginalized, this narrative has struck a responsive chord with many Russians. The narrative has been effective because it contains an element of truth—Russia did implode in the 1990s, and the West prospered; Russia did recover from its troubles and regained a measure of its global standing on Putin’s watch; the West did promote democracy in Russia, which coincided with its time of troubles; and the West has been critical of the Russian government’s retreat from democracy as Russia regained strength.

Moreover, foreign policy traditionally was and is the preserve of the country’s political elite and its small national security establishment. Whereas there are some voices inside Russia who, like the leading anti-corruption activist Alexei Navalny, have challenged the many domestic failings and authoritarian leanings of the Putin government, there are hardly any who have challenged its foreign policy record.

*Worse yet, the Kremlin propaganda has been apparently so effective, and the legal constraints imposed by it so severe, that few Russian opposition voices dare to challenge the government’s foreign policy course for fear of being branded as foreign agents, enemies of the people, and fifth columnists. Warfare by Other Means For all the talk about Russian recovery and resurgence on the world stage, its capabilities should not be overestimated. Its GDP is about $1.3 trillion vs. U.S. GDP of over $18 trillion. The Russian economy is not “in shambles,” but in the words of a leading Russian government economist it is doomed to “eternal stagnation” unless the government undertakes major new reforms.*

Russian defense expenditures are estimated at about $65 billion, or little more than President Trump’s proposed increase in U.S. defense spending for FY 2018. The Russian military is estimated at just over 750,000—well short of its authorized strength of one million—vs. U.S. 1.4 million active duty military personnel. By all accounts, the Russian military has made huge strides in the past decade, benefiting from farreaching reforms and generous defense spending.

*It is undeniably far superior militarily to its smaller, weaker neighbors and enjoys considerable geographic advantages in theaters around its periphery. Yet, the overall military balance does not favor Russia when it is compared to the United States and its NATO allies. They have bigger economies, spend more on defense, have bigger, better equipped militaries, and are more technologically sophisticated. A NATO-Russia war would be an act of mutual suicide, and the Kremlin is not ready for it. *

*Its campaign against the West has to be prosecuted by other means. That is the backdrop for the subject of today’s hearings. Since Russia cannot compete toe-to-toe with the West, its leaders have embraced a wide range of tools—information warfare in all its forms, including subversion, deception, dis- and mis-information, intimidation, espionage, economic tools, including sanctions, bribery, selective favorable trading regimes, influence campaigns, etc. *

This toolkit has deep historical roots in the Soviet era and performs the function of the equalizer that in the eyes of the Kremlin is intended to make up for Russia’s weakness vis-à- vis the West. In employing this toolkit, the Kremlin has a number of important advantages. There is no domestic audience before which it has to account for its actions abroad. The Kremlin has few, if any external restraints in employing it, and its decisionmaking mechanism is streamlined. There is no legislature to report to, for the Duma is a rubber stamp body eager to sign off on any Kremlin foreign policy initiative.

The circle of deciders is far smaller than the Soviet-era Politburo, and it is limited to a handful of Putin associates with similar worldviews and backgrounds. They are determined to carry on an adversarial relationship with the West. They can make decisions quickly and have considerable resources at their disposal, especially given the relatively inexpensive nature of most of the tools they rely on. A handful of cyber criminals cost a lot less than an armored brigade and can cause a great deal more damage with much smaller risks.

Shame and reputational risks do not appear to be a factor in Russian decision-making. In early- 2016, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov did not shy away from repeating a patently false fake media story about the rape of a Russian-German girl by a Syrian asylum-seeker in Germany. Moreover, a version of selective naming and shaming—or targeting of political adversaries with false allegations of misconduct—has been used by Russian propaganda to discredit political adversaries in the West.

*Russian propaganda, and Putin personally, have sought to deflect the attention from the fact of the intrusion into the DNC server and the top leadership of Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign to the information released as a result of it that has presented various political operatives in an unfavorable light. This not only deflects the attention from Russia’s role in this episode, it helps the Kremlin convey an important message to its domestic audience about the corrupt nature of U.S. politics. *

*Russia therefore is no worse than the United States, which has no right to complain about corruption and democracy deficit in Russia. Russian meddling in the 2016 U.S. presidential election is likely to be seen by the Kremlin as a major success regardless of whether its initial goal was to help advance the Trump candidacy.*

*The payoff includes, but is not limited to a major political disruption in the United States, which has been distracted from many strategic pursuits; the standing of the United States and its leadership in the world have been damaged; it has become a common theme in the narrative of many leading commentators that from the pillar of stability of the international liberal order the United States has been transformed into its biggest source of instability; U.S. commitments to key allies in Europe and Asia have been questioned on both sides of the Atlantic and the Pacific.*

*And last, but 6 not least, the Kremlin has demonstrated what it can do to the world’s sole remaining global superpower. It Is Not a Crisis, It Is the New Normal Events of the past three years, since the annexation of Crimea by Russia, have been referred to as a crisis in relations between Russia and the West. However, this is no longer a crisis. The differences between Russia and the West are profound and are highly unlikely to be resolved in the foreseeable future without one or the other side capitulating.*

*The U.S.-Russian relationship is fundamentally broken, and this situation should be treated as the new normal rather than an exceptional period in our relations. For the foreseeable future our relationship is likely to remain competitive and, at times, adversarial. *

The full extent of Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election is not yet publicly known. But the melding of various tools (e.g, the use of cyber operations to collect certain information covertly) and the provision of this information to outlets such as Wikileaks and the news media was certainly a first.

*Unfortunately, it is not a first for U.S. allies and partners in Europe and Eurasia. It is not the last either. Just a few days ago, Vladimir Putin received France’s right-wing presidential candidate Marine Le Pen in the Kremlin. Previously, her National Front had received a loan from a Moscow-based bank, and Russian media outlets have tried to injure the reputation of her chief opponent Emmanuel Macron by spreading rumors about his sexuality and ties to financial institutions. *

*The chiefs of British and German intelligence services have warned publicly about the threat from Russia to their countries’ democratic processes. The Netherlands recently chose to forego reliance on certain computer vote tabulation systems due to elevated fears of Russian interference and hacking. *

*The experience of Russian meddling in the 2016 U.S. election should be judged an unqualified success for the Kremlin. It has cost it little and paid off in more ways than can be easily counted. To be sure, U.S. officials should expect it to be repeated again and again in the future. 2016 was a crisis, but it was not an aberration and should be treated as the new normal. Cyber is merely a new domain. Deception and active measures in all their incarnations have long been and will remain a staple of Russia’s dealings with the outside world for the foreseeable future. Link*

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## LA se Karachi

*Trump, Ryan Both Hit Record Low Approval*

*PPP's newest national poll finds Donald Trump's approval rating falling to its lowest level yet in our polling. Only 40% of voters approve of the job he's doing, to 53% who disapprove.*

_*Health Care:*_

The upshot of last week's health care debate is that *the Affordable Care Act is now the most popular it's ever been in our polling, with 52% of voters approving of it to only 37% who disapprove. By contrast there is only 23% support for the American Health Care Act, with 56% of voters in opposition to it. Asked which of the two plans voters prefer, the Affordable Care Act wins out by 21 points at 49-28.* At this point just 32% of voters think the best path forward on health care is to repeal the ACA, with 62% saying they'd rather keep it and fix whatever needs to be fixed in it.

Donald Trump blamed the failure of the AHCA last week on Congressional Democrats, but voters aren't buying that. Just 31% think Democrats are responsible for the bill's failure, to 52% who pin the blame on Congressional Republicans. Trump may be losing out to Democrats on this issue, but he's coming out ahead on the health care blame game within his own party. Overall voters blame Paul Ryan more than Trump for the failure of the AHCA, 42/33. But specifically among GOP voters, 54% blame Ryan to only 13% who pin the blame on Trump.

*This issue has made Paul Ryan into the most unpopular politician in the country.* At the start of the Trump administration he had a 33% approval rating, with 43% of voters disapproving of him. Now his approval has plunged to 21%, with his disapproval spiking all the way up to 61%. Ryan's particularly seen his image crater with Trump voters- what was a 53/23 approval rating with them in mid-January is now negative at 35/41.

*Congress as a whole isn't doing too well in the wake of the health care discussion, with its approval rating as a body standing at 11%, with 68% of voters disapproving of it.* Mitch McConnell has a 19% approval rating, with 54% of voters disapproving of him but for the first time ever that at least gives him a better net approval rating than Ryan has. *Democrats lead the generic Congressional ballot 48-43 at this early point in the cycle.*
_

*Russia:*_

Our new poll gives a clear picture of just how damaging continued revelations about Russia could be to Donald Trump's political standing. As it stands a plurality of voters- 44%- think Trump's campaign team worked in association with Russia to help Trump win the election for President. 42% don't think it did, and another 14% are unsure. *We find that if evidence comes out that proves conclusively that members of Trump's campaign team worked in association with Russia to help him win the election, 53% of voters think he should resign to only 39% who believe he should continue to serve as President. *Already 44% of voters support impeaching Trump to 45% who are opposed to impeachment, and these numbers suggest that more Russia revelations could very well lead to majority support for impeachment.

Voters are taking the issue pretty seriously. *62% support an independent investigation into Russia's involvement with the election, to only 28% who are opposed.* That's an outgrowth of 60% of voters believing that Russia wanted Trump to win the election last year, to 22% who think it wanted Hillary Clinton win. (Although among Trump voters, 41% say Russia wanted Clinton to win to only 26% who say it wanted Trump to win.) Just 39% of voters consider the Russia story to be 'fake news,' to 48% who say it's not. *And as we've consistently found in our polling both Russia as a whole (13/64 favorability) and Vladimir Putin specifically (9/72 favorability) are very unpopular.*

_*2020:*_

*We took an early look ahead to 2020 and how Trump would match up right now against some hypothetical Democratic opponents for reelection. He trails Joe Biden 54/40, Bernie Sanders 52/41, Elizabeth Warren 48/43, Al Franken 46/41, and Cory Booker 45/42 in head to head match ups. Biden (56/33 favorability) and Sanders (53/36) are among the most popular political figures in the country. Voters are more divided on Warren (42/39) *and Franken (34/34). Booker is not as well known nationally as the rest of this group yet, coming in at 27/24.

_*Other Notes:*_

-Voters continue to have a lot of the same transparency concerns about Trump that they've had ever since he took office.* 61% think he should release his tax returns, to just 33% who don't think it's necessary for him to. On a related note 58% of voters would support a law requiring that a candidate for President release 5 years of tax returns in order to appear on the ballot, to 33% opposed to that. Additionally, 64% of voters think Trump should fully divest himself from his business interests, to only 30% who don't think he should.
*
-Trump continues to come out on the wrong side when it comes to who voters trust more between him and the media outlets he's attacked most recently. *By a 54/39 spread voters say NBC has more credibility than Trump, 53/38 they say ABC has more credibility than Trump, and 53/39 they say CNN has more credibility than Trump.*

*-Voters continue to be uninterested in paying for the wall with Mexico. Only 37% support it if American taxpayers have to front the cost for it, to 55% who are opposed to the wall in that case.*

*-Only 30% of voters think Barack Obama tapped Trump's phone during the election last year, to 59% who don't think Trump did that.* Among Trump voters though, 62% think Obama did tap Trump's phone to 18% who don't believe he did. When it comes to their conflicting sides of the story, voters say they trust Obama more than Trump 53/42. That's an outgrowth of general trust issues Trump is facing with voters though- * only 39% consider him to be honest compared to 55% who say he's dishonest. And in fact 50% of voters come right out and say they think Trump is a liar, compared to 44% who disagree with that characterization.

*
_http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/03/trump-ryan-both-hit-record-low-approval.html_

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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> The Senate Intelligence Committee held its first hearing on Russian interference in the 2016 election today. A panel of foreign policy scholars were invited to provide an analysis of Russia’s international agenda and its disinformation propaganda methods against the West.
> 
> The following are the eye-opening testimonies of two experts:
> 
> 
> *RUSSIAN ACTIVE MEASURES AND INFLUENCE CAMPAIGNS *
> 
> Eugene B. Rumer Senior Fellow and Director Russia and Eurasia Program Carnegie Endowment for International Peace Testimony before U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence March 30, 2017
> 
> Chairman Burr, Vice Chairman Warner, distinguished members of Senate Select Committee on Intelligence! It is a great honor to appear here today. The issue before this panel is Russian active measures and influence campaigns. It rose to the top of our national agenda in 2016, when we became aware of Russian interference in our presidential campaign. *It remains one of the most contentious issues in our national conversation, for the very idea that another nation could put at risk the integrity of our country’s most essential institution—the process of electing our president—is hard for us to comprehend. *
> 
> *I would like to state at the outset that based on media reporting, on statements of senior U.S. and other countries’ law enforcement and intelligence officials, and my professional experience as a student of Russian foreign policy, I am convinced that Russian intelligence services, their proxies, and other related actors directly intervened in our election in 2016.*
> 
> You might ask why I am so confident of this. I have not seen the classified evidence that supports the findings presented in the Intelligence Community Assessment “Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections” published by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence on January 6, 2017. Some observers have been critical of that Assessment for not presenting detailed evidence of Russian cyber intrusions or covert activities. *They miss the mark—it is the totality of the Russian effort to interfere, mislead, misinform, outright falsify, influence, etc. that is just as, if not more convincing than the cyber evidence of the Russian break in into the Democratic National Committee (DNC) server and other intrusions. *
> 
> That Russian effort is before us in plain sight—in state-sponsored propaganda broadcasts on RT (Russia Today), in countless internet trolls, fake or distorted news spread by fake news services, *in the recent Kremlin get together of Russian president Vladimir Putin with the French far right presidential candidate Marine Le Pen. The list can go on. That effort is also an integral part of Russian foreign policy and domestic politics. *
> 
> It’s More than the Economy To understand why the Russian government is engaged in this large-scale and diversified influence operation, which blends overt and covert activities, one needs to step back and put it in the context of events of the quarter century since the end of the Cold War. Every country’s foreign policy is a product of its history, its geography, and its politics. Russia is no exception to this rule, and to understand the pattern of Russian behavior at home and abroad, we need to look at Russian history, Russian geography, and Russian domestic politics.
> 
> War in Europe is integral to the formative experience of every Russian. The country’s national narrative is impossible without the record of two wars—the Patriotic War of 1812, which Russians view as a war of liberation from Napoleon’s invasion of Russia, and the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945. Both wars were fought to liberate Patria, the Fatherland, from foreign occupiers. In 1812, Napoleon entered Moscow and the city was burned. In 1941, Hitler’s armies were stopped 2 just outside the city limits of Moscow. Americans, too, had their war of 1812, and Washington too was burned, but few Russians know or remember it, just as they think little of the fighting in the Pacific theater against Japan in the second world war. Stalin’s armies didn’t enter it until nearly the very end, three months after the war in Europe ended.
> 
> The end of the Great Patriotic War is celebrated in Russia every year as a great national holiday on May 9. The greatest Russian novel of all times is Leo Tolstoy’s War and Peace, all Russians read it in high school. They are also taught in history classes that their country’s greatest accomplishment of the 20th century was the defeat of fascism in the Great Patriotic War. The war of 1812 ended for Russia when the armies of Tsar Alexander I entered Paris in 1814. The Great Patriotic War ended in 1945 when Stalin’s armies entered Berlin. From 1945 to 1989, when the Berlin Wall came down, Russia was at its most secure, or so successive generations of Russian leaders have been taught to believe. The history and the strategy taught in Russian military academies for decades after it ended were the history and the strategy of the Great Patriotic War.
> 
> The map for tabletop exercises at the Military Academy of the General Staff in 2001 was a giant map of the European theater. U.S. strategists were by that time “done” with Europe and shifting their focus from the Balkan edge of the continent to South Asia and the Middle East. Russia was not “done” with Europe. *Little appreciated in the West at the time was the trauma suffered by the Russian national security establishment when it lost its outer and inner security buffers—the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet empire. The sense of physical security afforded by this dual buffer between NATO’s armies and the Russian heartland was gone.*
> 
> Russian declaratory policy may have been to sign on to the 1990 Charter of Paris as the Cold War ended, but the historical legacy and the geography of Russian national security could not be altered with the stroke of a pen. Even as the Communist system was dismantled and the Soviet Union disbanded, Russia’s national security establishment, which had been brought up for generations to think in terms of hard power, could not and did not embrace the new vision of European security based on shared values.
> 
> In 1991, with their society in turmoil, their economy in tatters, their military in retreat from the outer and inner empires, and their country literally falling apart, Russian leaders had no choice but to go along with that vision. They also accepted as given that history is written by the victors, and that the victors would also make the rules for the new era. Russia would have to go along with it for as long as it remained weak.
> 
> The 1990s were a terrible decade for Russia. Its domestic politics remained in turmoil, its economy limped from one crisis to the next, and its international standing—only recently that of a superpower—collapsed. Western students of Russia were entertaining the prospect of a world without Russia. It was not lost on Russian political elites that the 1990s were also a time of great prosperity and global influence for the West. For them, brought up on the idea of importance of hard power, the dominance of the West was inextricably tied to its victory in the Cold War, the defeat of Russia, its retreat from the world stage, and the expansion of the West in its wake. 3 Russia Is Back But Russia would not remain weak indefinitely.
> 
> Its economic recovery after the turn of the century, buoyed by soaring global prices for commodities and hydrocarbons, and its domestic political consolidation around Vladimir Putin and his brand of increasingly authoritarian leadership, so different from the leadership of Boris Yeltsin, have laid the groundwork for a return to Russia’s more assertive posture on the world stage.
> 
> That increasingly assertive posture has manifested itself on multiple occasions and in different forms over the past decade and a half—in Vladimir Putin’s speech at the Munich Security Conference in 2007; in the war with Georgia in 2008 and the statement in its aftermath by then president Dmitry Medvedev about Russia’s claim to a sphere of “privileged interests” around its periphery; and finally in the annexation of Crimea in 2014 and the undeclared war in eastern Ukraine to keep Ukraine from slipping from Russia’s orbit.
> 
> *For the West, Russia’s return to the world stage has been nothing more than pure revanchism. It violates the basic, core principles of the post-Cold War European security architecture—which Russia pledged to observe over a quarter-century ago. For Russia, it is restoring a balance—not the old balance, but some semblance of it. Currently, NATO troops are deployed to deter Russian aggression against Estonia. (Curiously, former speaker of the House Newt Gingrich has described it as the “suburbs of St. Petersburg.”) Russia’s security establishment views this commitment by NATO countries to its vulnerable ally as a threat to the heartland.*
> 
> The narrative of restoring the balance, correcting the injustice and the distortions of the 1990s, when the West took advantage of Russia’s weakness, has been the essential element of Russian state-sponsored propaganda since the beginning of the Putin era. Whether or not we choose to accept this narrative, these beliefs undergird Russia’s comeback on the world stage and political consolidation at home.
> 
> *In public and private, top Russian officials proclaim that the wars in Georgia and Ukraine were fought to prevent Western encroachment on territories vital to Russian security. The military deployment in Syria merely restores Russia’s traditional foothold in the Middle East, from which Russia withdrew when it was weak, and where it was replaced by the West with consequences that have been tragic for the entire region. *
> 
> In domestic politics, Putin’s authoritarian restoration is treated by the majority of average and elite members of Russian society as the return to the country’s traditional political health, free from foreign interference in its political and economic life. The more pluralistic system and dramatic decline of the 1990s are linked in this narrative to the influence of the United States and other foreign interests in Russia’s economy and politics, to their desire to introduce alien values in Russia’s political culture and take Russia’s oil. U.S. support for Russian civil society is an effort to undermine the Russian state, to bring Russia back to its knees, and take advantage of it, both at home and abroad.
> 
> *Western economic sanctions imposed on Russia in the wake of its annexation of Crimea and the undeclared war in eastern Ukraine are a form of warfare designed to weaken Russia and gain unfair advantage over it. Western support for democracy in countries around Russia’s periphery is an effort to encircle it and weaken it too. This narrative has dominated the airwaves inside Russia, where the Kremlin controls the television, which is the principal medium that delivers news to most Russians.*
> 
> With independent media in retreat and alternative sources of information marginalized, this narrative has struck a responsive chord with many Russians. The narrative has been effective because it contains an element of truth—Russia did implode in the 1990s, and the West prospered; Russia did recover from its troubles and regained a measure of its global standing on Putin’s watch; the West did promote democracy in Russia, which coincided with its time of troubles; and the West has been critical of the Russian government’s retreat from democracy as Russia regained strength.
> 
> Moreover, foreign policy traditionally was and is the preserve of the country’s political elite and its small national security establishment. Whereas there are some voices inside Russia who, like the leading anti-corruption activist Alexei Navalny, have challenged the many domestic failings and authoritarian leanings of the Putin government, there are hardly any who have challenged its foreign policy record.
> 
> *Worse yet, the Kremlin propaganda has been apparently so effective, and the legal constraints imposed by it so severe, that few Russian opposition voices dare to challenge the government’s foreign policy course for fear of being branded as foreign agents, enemies of the people, and fifth columnists. Warfare by Other Means For all the talk about Russian recovery and resurgence on the world stage, its capabilities should not be overestimated. Its GDP is about $1.3 trillion vs. U.S. GDP of over $18 trillion. The Russian economy is not “in shambles,” but in the words of a leading Russian government economist it is doomed to “eternal stagnation” unless the government undertakes major new reforms.*
> 
> Russian defense expenditures are estimated at about $65 billion, or little more than President Trump’s proposed increase in U.S. defense spending for FY 2018. The Russian military is estimated at just over 750,000—well short of its authorized strength of one million—vs. U.S. 1.4 million active duty military personnel. By all accounts, the Russian military has made huge strides in the past decade, benefiting from farreaching reforms and generous defense spending.
> 
> *It is undeniably far superior militarily to its smaller, weaker neighbors and enjoys considerable geographic advantages in theaters around its periphery. Yet, the overall military balance does not favor Russia when it is compared to the United States and its NATO allies. They have bigger economies, spend more on defense, have bigger, better equipped militaries, and are more technologically sophisticated. A NATO-Russia war would be an act of mutual suicide, and the Kremlin is not ready for it. *
> 
> *Its campaign against the West has to be prosecuted by other means. That is the backdrop for the subject of today’s hearings. Since Russia cannot compete toe-to-toe with the West, its leaders have embraced a wide range of tools—information warfare in all its forms, including subversion, deception, dis- and mis-information, intimidation, espionage, economic tools, including sanctions, bribery, selective favorable trading regimes, influence campaigns, etc. *
> 
> This toolkit has deep historical roots in the Soviet era and performs the function of the equalizer that in the eyes of the Kremlin is intended to make up for Russia’s weakness vis-à- vis the West. In employing this toolkit, the Kremlin has a number of important advantages. There is no domestic audience before which it has to account for its actions abroad. The Kremlin has few, if any external restraints in employing it, and its decisionmaking mechanism is streamlined. There is no legislature to report to, for the Duma is a rubber stamp body eager to sign off on any Kremlin foreign policy initiative.
> 
> The circle of deciders is far smaller than the Soviet-era Politburo, and it is limited to a handful of Putin associates with similar worldviews and backgrounds. They are determined to carry on an adversarial relationship with the West. They can make decisions quickly and have considerable resources at their disposal, especially given the relatively inexpensive nature of most of the tools they rely on. A handful of cyber criminals cost a lot less than an armored brigade and can cause a great deal more damage with much smaller risks.
> 
> Shame and reputational risks do not appear to be a factor in Russian decision-making. In early- 2016, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov did not shy away from repeating a patently false fake media story about the rape of a Russian-German girl by a Syrian asylum-seeker in Germany. Moreover, a version of selective naming and shaming—or targeting of political adversaries with false allegations of misconduct—has been used by Russian propaganda to discredit political adversaries in the West.
> 
> *Russian propaganda, and Putin personally, have sought to deflect the attention from the fact of the intrusion into the DNC server and the top leadership of Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign to the information released as a result of it that has presented various political operatives in an unfavorable light. This not only deflects the attention from Russia’s role in this episode, it helps the Kremlin convey an important message to its domestic audience about the corrupt nature of U.S. politics. *
> 
> *Russia therefore is no worse than the United States, which has no right to complain about corruption and democracy deficit in Russia. Russian meddling in the 2016 U.S. presidential election is likely to be seen by the Kremlin as a major success regardless of whether its initial goal was to help advance the Trump candidacy.*
> 
> *The payoff includes, but is not limited to a major political disruption in the United States, which has been distracted from many strategic pursuits; the standing of the United States and its leadership in the world have been damaged; it has become a common theme in the narrative of many leading commentators that from the pillar of stability of the international liberal order the United States has been transformed into its biggest source of instability; U.S. commitments to key allies in Europe and Asia have been questioned on both sides of the Atlantic and the Pacific.*
> 
> *And last, but 6 not least, the Kremlin has demonstrated what it can do to the world’s sole remaining global superpower. It Is Not a Crisis, It Is the New Normal Events of the past three years, since the annexation of Crimea by Russia, have been referred to as a crisis in relations between Russia and the West. However, this is no longer a crisis. The differences between Russia and the West are profound and are highly unlikely to be resolved in the foreseeable future without one or the other side capitulating.*
> 
> *The U.S.-Russian relationship is fundamentally broken, and this situation should be treated as the new normal rather than an exceptional period in our relations. For the foreseeable future our relationship is likely to remain competitive and, at times, adversarial. *
> 
> The full extent of Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election is not yet publicly known. But the melding of various tools (e.g, the use of cyber operations to collect certain information covertly) and the provision of this information to outlets such as Wikileaks and the news media was certainly a first.
> 
> *Unfortunately, it is not a first for U.S. allies and partners in Europe and Eurasia. It is not the last either. Just a few days ago, Vladimir Putin received France’s right-wing presidential candidate Marine Le Pen in the Kremlin. Previously, her National Front had received a loan from a Moscow-based bank, and Russian media outlets have tried to injure the reputation of her chief opponent Emmanuel Macron by spreading rumors about his sexuality and ties to financial institutions. *
> 
> *The chiefs of British and German intelligence services have warned publicly about the threat from Russia to their countries’ democratic processes. The Netherlands recently chose to forego reliance on certain computer vote tabulation systems due to elevated fears of Russian interference and hacking. *
> 
> *The experience of Russian meddling in the 2016 U.S. election should be judged an unqualified success for the Kremlin. It has cost it little and paid off in more ways than can be easily counted. To be sure, U.S. officials should expect it to be repeated again and again in the future. 2016 was a crisis, but it was not an aberration and should be treated as the new normal. Cyber is merely a new domain. Deception and active measures in all their incarnations have long been and will remain a staple of Russia’s dealings with the outside world for the foreseeable future. Link*


Every American should read this. Mr. Clint Watts testified at the Senate intelligence committee’s hearing:

*Clint Watts*
• Robert A. Fox Fellow, Foreign Policy Research Institute • Senior Fellow, Center for Cyber and Homeland Security, the George Washington University Statement Prepared for the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence hearing: “Disinformation: A Primer In Russian Active Measures And Influence Campaigns” 30 March 2017 On 26 October 2015, I authored a post at the Foreign Policy Research Institute (FPRI) entitled “Russia Returns As Al Qaeda And The Islamic State’s Far Enemy” noting: “The Russians have used social media driven information campaigns to discredit the U.S. for years. Facebook and Twitter remain littered with pro-Russian, Western looking accounts and supporting automated bots designed to undermine the credibility of the U.S. government.”1 Just a few weeks later in November 2015, the FBI visited FPRI notifying their leadership that I had been targeted by a cyber attack. The FBI didn’t say who exactly had targeted me, but I had a good idea who it might be. In the eighteen months prior to the above quote and in the three years leading up to today, two colleagues and I watched and tracked the rise of Russia’s social media influence operations witnessing their update of an old Soviet playbook known as Active Measures.

*For me, I began watching these influence operations in January 2014 after I co-authored an article in Foreign Affairs entitled “The Good and The Bad of Ahrar al Sham.” Hecklers appearing to be English-speaking Europeans and Americans trolled me for my stance on Syrian President Bashar Assad. But these social media accounts, they didn’t look right - their aggression, persistence, biographies, speech patterns and synchronization were unnatural. I wasn’t the only one who noticed this pattern.* *Andrew Weisburd and J.M. Berger, the two best social media analysts I’d worked with in counterterrorism, noticed similar patterns around the troll discussions of Syria, Assad, al Qaeda and the Islamic State.*

Shortly after, in March 2014, we noticed a petition on the WhiteHouse.gov website. “Alaska Back To Russia” appeared as a public campaign to give America’s largest state back to the nation from which it was purchased. 3 Satirical or nonsensical petitions appearing on the White House website are not out of the norm. This petition was different though, having gained more than 39,000 online signatures in a short time period. Our examination of those signing and posting on this petition revealed an odd pattern – the accounts varied considerably from other petitions and appeared to be the work of automated bots. These bots tied in closely with other social media campaigns we had observed pushing Russian propaganda.

Through the summer and fall of 2014, we studied these pro-Russia accounts and automated bots. Hackers proliferated the networks and could be spotted amongst recent data breaches and website defacements. Closely circling them were honeypot accounts, attractive looking women or passionate political partisans, which appeared to be befriending certain audience members through social engineering. Above all, we observed hecklers, synchronized trolling accounts that would attack political targets using similar talking points and follower patterns. These accounts, some of which overtly supported the Kremlin, promoted Russian foreign policy positions targeting key English speaking audiences throughout Europe and North America. From this pattern, we realized we were observing a deliberate, well organized, well resourced, well funded, wide ranging effort commanded by only one possible adversary – Russia.

*Active Measures: Everything Old Is New Again*

Soviet Active Measures strategy and tactics have been reborn and updated for the modern Russian regime and the digital age. Today, Russia seeks to win the second Cold War through “the force of politics as opposed to the politics of force”. As compared to the analog information wars of the first Cold War, the Internet and social media provide Russia cheap, efficient and highly effective access to foreign audiences with plausible deniability of their influence.

*Russia’s new and improved online Active Measures shifted aggressively toward U.S. audiences in late 2014 and throughout 2015. They launched divisive messages on nearly any disaffected U.S. audience. Whether it be claims of the U.S. military declaring martial law during the Jade Helm exercise , chaos amongst Black Lives matter protests or tensions in the Bundy Ranch standoff in Oregon7 , Russia’s state sponsored outlets of RT and Sputnik News, characterized as “white” influence efforts in information warfare, churned out manipulated truths, false news stories and conspiracies. Four general themes outlined these propaganda messages:*

*• Political Messages – Designed to tarnish democratic leaders and undermine democratic institutions 

• Financial Propaganda – Created to weaken confidence in financial markets, capitalist economies and Western companies 

• Social Unrest – Crafted to amplify divisions amongst democratic populaces to undermine citizen trust and the fabric of society 

• Global Calamity – Pushed to incite fear of global demise such as nuclear war or catastrophic climate change*

From these overt Russian propaganda outlets, a wide range of English language conspiratorial websites (“gray” outlets), some of which mysteriously operate from Eastern Europe and are curiously led by pro-Russian editors of unknown financing, sensationalize conspiracies and fake news published by white outlets further amplifying their reach in American audiences. American looking social media accounts, the hecklers, honeypots and hackers described above, working alongside automated bots further amplify and disseminate Russian propaganda amongst unwitting Westerners. These covert, “black” operations influence target audience opinions with regards to Russia and undermine confidence in Western elected leaders, public officials, mainstream media personalities, academic experts and democracy itself. 

Through the end of 2015 and start of 2016, the Russian influence system outlined above began pushing themes and messages seeking to influence the outcome of the U.S. Presidential election. Russia’s overt media outlets and covert trolls sought to sideline opponents on both sides of the political spectrum with adversarial views toward the Kremlin. The final months leading up to the election have been the predominate focus of Russian influence discussions to date. However, Russian Active Measures were in full swing during both the Republican and Democratic primary season and may have helped sink the hopes of candidates more hostile to Russian interests long before the field narrowed.

*The final piece of Russia’s modern Active Measures surfaced in the summer of 2016 as hacked materials from previous months were strategically leaked. On 22 July 2016, Wikileaks released troves of stolen communications from the Democratic National Committee and later batches of campaign emails. Guccifer 2.0 and DC Leaks revealed hacked information from a host of former U.S. government officials throughout July and August 2016.* For the remainder of the campaign season, this compromising material powered the influence system Russia successfully constructed in the previous two years.

*On the evening of 30 July 2016, my colleagues and I watched as RT and Sputnik News simultaneously launched false stories of the U.S. airbase at Incirlik being overrun by terrorists. Within minutes, pro-Russian social media aggregators and automated bots amplified this false news story and expanded conspiracies asserting American nuclear missiles at the base would be lost to extremists. More than 4,000 tweets in the first 78 minutes after launching of this false story linked back to the Active Measures accounts we’d tracked in the previous two years. These previously identified accounts, almost simultaneously appearing from different geographic locations and communities, amplified this fake news story in unison. The hashtags incrementally pushed by these automated accounts were #Nuclear, #Media, #Trump and #Benghazi. The most common words found in English speaking Twitter user profiles were: God, Military, Trump, Family, Country, Conservative, Christian, America, and Constitution. These accounts and their messages clearly sought to convince Americans a U.S. military base was being overrun in a terrorist attack like the 2012 assault on a U.S. installation in Benghazi, Libya. 8 In reality, a small protest gathered outside the Incirlik gate and the increased security at the airbase sought to secure the arrival of the U.S. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff the following day.*

This pattern of Russian falsehoods and social media manipulation of the American electorate continued through Election Day and persists today. Many of the accounts we watched push the false Incirlik story in July now focus their efforts on shaping the upcoming European elections, promoting fears of immigration or false claims of refugee criminality. They’ve not forgotten about the United States either. This past week, we observed social media campaigns targeting Speaker of the House Paul Ryan hoping to foment further unrest amongst U.S. democratic institutions, their leaders and their constituents.

As we noted two days before the Presidential election in our article describing Russian influence operations, Russia certainly seeks to promote Western candidates sympathetic to their worldview and foreign policy objectives. But winning a single election is not their end goal. Russian Active Measures hope to topple democracies through the pursuit of five complementary objectives:

*• Undermine citizen confidence in democratic governance • Foment and exacerbate divisive political fractures 

• Erode trust between citizens and elected officials and democratic institutions 

• Popularize Russian policy agendas within foreign populations 

• Create general distrust or confusion over information sources by blurring the lines between fact and fiction*

*From these objectives, the Kremlin can crumble democracies from the inside out creating political divisions resulting in two key milestones: 1) the dissolution of the European Union and 2) the break up of the North American Treaty Organization (NATO). Achieving these two victories against the West will allow Russia to reassert its power globally and pursue its foreign policy objectives bilaterally through military, diplomatic and economic aggression.* Russia’s undeterred annexation of Crimea, conflict in Ukraine and military deployment in Syria provide recent examples.

*Why did Soviet Active Measures fail during the Cold War but succeed for Russia today?*

Russia’s Active Measures today work far better than that of their Soviet forefathers. During the Cold War, the KGB had to infiltrate the West, recruit agents and promote communist parties and their propaganda while under watch by Western counterintelligence efforts. Should they be too aggressive, Soviet spies conducting Active Measures amongst U.S. domestic groups could potentially trigger armed conflict or would be detained and deported.

*Social media provides Russia’s new Active Measures access to U.S. audiences without setting foot in the country, and the Kremlin smartly uses these platforms in seven ways to win Western elections. 
First, Russia chooses close democratic contests where a slight nudge can usher in their preferred candidate or desired outcome. 

Second, Russia targets specific audiences inside electorates amenable to their messages and resulting influence – in particular alt-right audiences incensed over immigration, refugees and economic hardship. 

Third, Russia plans and implements their strategy long before an election allowing sufficient time for cultivating an amenable audience ripe for manipulation. 

Fourth, their early entry into electoral debates allows them to test many messages and then reinforce those messages that resonate and bring about a measurable, preferred shift in public opinion. 

Fifth, Russia brilliantly uses hacking to compromise adversaries and power their influence messaging – a tactic most countries would not take. 

Sixth, their employment of social media automation saturates their intended audience with narratives that drown out opposing viewpoints. 

Finally, Russia plays either side should the contest change – backing an individual candidate or party so long as they support a Kremlin policy position and then turning against the same party should their position shift against Russia.*

*The implications of Russia’s new Active Measures model will be two fold. The first is what the world is witnessing today – a Russian challenge to democracies throughout the West. Russian influence surfaced in Eastern Europe elections and the United Kingdom’s Brexit vote before the U.S. Presidential election, helped bolster a losing far-right candidate recently in the Netherlands and right now works diligently to shape the upcoming 2017 elections in France and Germany. Over the horizon, Russia has provided any authoritarian dictator or predatory elite equipped with hackers and disrespectful of civil liberties a playbook to dismantle their enemies through information warfare. Fledgling democracies and countries rife with ethnic and social divisions will be particularly vulnerable to larger authoritarian regimes with the time, resources and patience to foment chaos in smaller republics.*

*The U.S. Can Counter Russia’s Modern Active Measures*

*America can defuse Russia’s Active Measures online by undertaking a coordinated and broad range of actions across the U.S. government. Currently, the U.S. ignores, to its own detriment, falsehoods and manipulated truths generated and promoted by Russia’s state sponsored media and their associated conspiratorial websites. While many Active Measures claims seem ridiculous, a non-response by the U.S. government introduces doubt and fuels social media conspiracies. The U.S. should generate immediate public refutations to false Russian claims by creating two official government webpages acting as a U.S. government “Snopes” for disarming falsehoods.* The U.S. State Department would host a website responding to false claims regarding U.S. policy and operations outside U.S. borders. The U.S. Department of Homeland Security would host a parallel website responding to any and all false claims regarding U.S. policy and operations domestically – a particularly important function in times of emergency where Russian Active Measures have been observed inciting panic.

*Criminal investigations bringing hackers to justice will continue to be vital. However, the FBI must take a more proactive role during investigations to analyze what information has been stolen by Russia and then help officials publicly disclose the breach in short order. Anticipating rather than reacting to emerging Russian data dumps through public affairs messaging will help U.S. officials and other American targets of kompromat prepare themselves for future discrediting campaigns.*

*Russian propaganda sometime peddles false financial stories causing rapid shifts in American company stock prices that hurt consumer and investor confidence and open the way for predatory market manipulation and short selling. At times, U.S. business employees unwittingly engage with Russian social media hecklers and honeypots putting themselves and their companies at risk. *The Departments of Treasury and Commerce should immediately undertake an education campaign for U.S. businesses to help them thwart damaging, false claims and train their employees in spotting nefarious social media operations that might compromise their information.

The Department of Homeland Security must continue to improve existing public-private partnerships and expand sharing of cyber trends and technical signatures. This information will be critical in helping citizens and companies prevent the hacking techniques propelling Russian kompromat. Finally, U.S. intelligence agencies have a large role to play in countering Russian Active Measures in the future, but my recommendations in this regard are not well suited for open discussion.

The most important actions to diffuse Russia’s modern Active Measures actually come from outside the U.S. government – the private sector and civil society. Russia’s social media influence campaigns achieve great success because mainstream media outlets amplify the salacious claims coming from stolen information. If forewarned by law enforcement of a Russian compromise (as noted above), the world’s largest newspapers, cable news channels and social media companies could join in a pact vowing not to report on stolen information that amplified Russia’s influence campaigns. While they would stand to lose audience in the near term to fringe outlets, Russia’s Active Measures would be far less effective at discrediting their adversaries and shaping polities if they lacked access to mainstream media outlets. Mainstream media outlets unifying and choosing not to be Kremlin pawns would also be a counter to Russia’s suppression of free speech and harsh treatment of journalists and the press.

Social media companies have played an outsized role in recent elections as they increasingly act as the primary news provider for their users. Tailored news feeds from social media platforms have created information bubbles where voters see only stories and opinions suiting their preferences and biases – ripe conditions for Russian disinformation campaigns. In the lead up to the 2016 election, fake news stories were consumed at higher rates than true stories. As a result, Facebook initiated a noble effort to tag fake news stories for their readers. But Facebook’s push must be expanded and joined by other social media companies or they will be overwhelmed by the volume of stories needing evaluation and will find difficulty protecting freedom of speech and the freedom of the press.

Social media companies should band together in the creation of an Information Consumer Reports. This non-governmental agency would evaluate all media organizations, mainstream and otherwise, across a range of variables producing news ratings representative of the outlet’s accuracy and orientation. The score would appear next to each outlet’s content in web searches and social media streams providing the equivalent of a nutrition label for information. Consumers would not be restricted from viewing fake news outlets and their erroneous information, but would know the risks of their consumption. The rating, over time, would reduce consumption of Russian disinformation specifically and misinformation collectively, while also placing a check on mainstream media outlets that have all too often regurgitated false stories.

*Over the past three years, Russia has implemented and run the most effective and efficient influence campaign in world history. Russian propaganda and social media manipulation has not stopped since the election in November and continues fomenting chaos amongst the American populace. American allies in Europe today suffer from an onslaught of hacks and manipulation, which threaten alliances that brought U.S. victory in the Cold War. The U.S., in failing to respond to Russia’s Active Measures, will surrender its position as the world’s leader, forgo its role as chief promoter and defender of democracy, and give up on over seventy years of collective action to preserve freedom and civil liberties around the world.*

*Our nation’s democratic principles and ideals are under attack by a kleptocratic Russian regime sowing divisions amongst the American public and Western society through information warfare. Russia’s strategic motto is “divided we stand, divided we fall”. It’s time the United States remind the world, that despite our day-to-day policy debates and political squabbles, we stand united, alongside our allies, in defending our democratic system of government from the meddling of power-hungry tyrants and repressive authoritarians that prey on their people and suppress humanity. *

For references please visit the Link










Clinton Watts said during his testimony to the Senate Intelligence Committee hearing on Russian intelligence activities that Russia's efforts were successful in meddling in the U.S. election because Donald Trump used Russia's active measures against his political opponents while the mainstream media also fed into fake news being distributed.

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## RabzonKhan

*A judge rules Trump may have incited violence … and Trump again has his own mouth to blame*

By Aaron Blake April 2 2017

The courts keep taking Donald Trump both seriously and literally. And the president's word choices are proving to be a real headache.

*A federal judge in Kentucky is the latest to take Trump at his word when he says something controversial. Judge David J. Hale ruled against efforts by Trump's attorneys to throw out a lawsuit accusing him of inciting violence against protesters at a March 2016 campaign rally in Louisville.*

*At the rally, Trump repeatedly said “get 'em out of here” before, according to the protesters, they were shoved and punched by his supporters. Trump's attorneys sought to have the case dismissed on free speech grounds, arguing that he didn't intend for his supporters to use force. But Hale noted that speech inciting violence is not protected by the First Amendment and ruled that there is plenty of evidence that the protesters' injuries were a “direct and proximate result” of Trump's words.*

“It is plausible that Trump’s direction to ‘get 'em out of here’ advocated the use of force,” Hale wrote. “It was an order, an instruction, a command.”

It's merely the latest example of Trump's team arguing that his controversial words shouldn't be taken literally. But though that argument may have held water politically during the 2016 campaign, it has since repeatedly hurt Trump's cause when his words have been at issue in legal proceedings.

*Just last week, a federal judge in Hawaii rejected an argument from Trump's attorneys asking that his travel ban executive order be evaluated without considering Trump's and his team's past comments about the motive behind the ban and whether it targets Muslims.*

*Trump's campaign in 2015 proposed a blanket ban on all Muslim immigration to the United States — the news release remains on his campaign website — and the courts ruled that this rhetoric was relevant when it halted his first travel ban, despite Trump's team arguing that it wasn't a Muslim ban. In striking down the first travel ban, the courts cited Rudolph W. Giuliani's comments that suggested Trump sought to make his Muslim ban idea legally practical.*

“So when first announced it, he said, 'Muslim ban,'" Giuliani said. “He called me up. He said, 'Put a commission together. Show me the right way to do it legally.'”

When Trump and his team issued a revised travel ban a few weeks ago, the courts again halted it and again cited that past rhetoric.

And in extending that order last week, the federal judge in Hawaii yet again cited the words of Trump's team — specifically, top adviser Stephen Miller, who had suggested the second ban would be, practically speaking, the same as the first.

“Fundamentally, you're still going to have the same basic policy outcome for the country, but you're going to be responsive to a lot of very technical issues that were brought up by the court, and those will be addressed,” Miller said. “But, in terms of protecting the country, those basic policies are still going to be in effect.”

Trump and his team will undoubtedly dismiss this latest example as yet another activist judge who is out to get him. But yet again, they are forced into the position of saying that Trump's words shouldn't be taken at face value — that he didn't mean what he actually, literally said.

I've argued before that this is a completely unworkable standard when it comes to the media's coverage of Trump. It allows Trump team members to retroactively downgrade whatever they want to, while leaving the good stuff intact — essentially a Get Out of Jail Free card they can redeem anytime they want.

But while Trump's supporters have certainly bought into that arrangement, the courts have yet again proved unwilling to grant the president that Get Out of Jail Free card. *Link*


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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> I really cannot understand how can poor blue-collar workers vote for him and think that this filthy rich man was going to take care of them? Hopefully they will learn their lesson and next time will vote more wisely.



Because there's implicit racism involved here. Majority of folks on Medicaid are white and blue-collar, this goes unnoticed by Trump supporters, of course. But many of them believe that minorities -- and illegal immigrants -- are taking the lion share. Of course, there's no proof for this, but then again we are living in the era of "fake news."



ptldM3 said:


> @RabzonKhan were you not one of the many liberals that was occussing Trump of not paying any taxes for the last 20 years?



Wasn't it Trump who bragged about paying little to no taxes? Interesting that of all the tax returns that was made public, it happens to be the one where he may have paid the most.

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## RabzonKhan

Eric Prince the founder of Blackwater, met with a confident of Putin secretly in Seychelles to establish Trump – Putin back channel. Prince was a major donor to the Trump campaign and is the brother of Betsy DeVos who is Trump’s Secretary of Education and is a friend of Steve Bannon. Something is very fishy.

*Blackwater founder held secret Seychelles meeting to establish Trump-Putin back channel*

By Adam Entous, Greg Miller, Kevin Sieff and Karen DeYoung April 3 2017

The United Arab Emirates arranged a secret meeting in January between Blackwater founder Erik Prince and a Russian close to President Vladimir Putin as part of an apparent effort to establish a back-channel line of communication between Moscow and President-elect Donald Trump, according to U.S., European and Arab officials.

The meeting took place around Jan. 11 — nine days before Trump’s inauguration — in the Seychelles islands in the Indian Ocean, officials said. Though the full agenda remains unclear, the UAE agreed to broker the meeting in part to explore whether Russia could be persuaded to curtail its relationship with Iran, including in Syria, a Trump administration objective that would be likely to require major concessions to Moscow on U.S. sanctions.

Though Prince had no formal role with the Trump campaign or transition team, he presented himself as an unofficial envoy for Trump to high-ranking Emiratis involved in setting up his meeting with the Putin confidant, according to the officials, who did not identify the Russian.

Prince was an avid supporter of Trump. After the Republican convention, he contributed $250,000 to Trump’s campaign, the national party and a pro-Trump super PAC led by GOP mega-donor Rebekah Mercer, records show. He has ties to people in Trump’s circle, including Stephen K. Bannon, now serving as the president’s chief strategist and senior counselor. Prince’s sister Betsy DeVos serves as education secretary in the Trump administration. And Prince was seen in the Trump transition offices in New York in December.

U.S. officials said the FBI has been scrutinizing the Seychelles meeting as part of a broader probe of Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. election and alleged contacts between associates of Putin and Trump. The FBI declined to comment.

The Seychelles encounter, which one official said spanned two days, adds to an expanding web of connections between Russia and Americans with ties to Trump — contacts that the White House has been reluctant to acknowledge or explain until they have been exposed by news organizations.

“We are not aware of any meetings, and Erik Prince had no role in the transition,” said Sean Spicer, the White House press secretary.

A Prince spokesman said in a statement: “Erik had no role on the transition team. This is a complete fabrication. The meeting had nothing to do with President Trump. Why is the so-called under-resourced intelligence community messing around with surveillance of American citizens when they should be hunting terrorists?” *Read more*

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## LA se Karachi

*Devin Nunes' 16 days from leader of House Russia investigation to target of ethics probe*







(CNN) - House Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes stepped aside from leading the House investigation into Russia's meddling in the US election Thursday, capping a chaotic ride that began with a secret trip to the White House grounds that would eventually form the core of President Donald Trump's counter-offensive.

In just 16 days, Nunes fell from leading the House's Russia's probe to becoming the target of a House probe himself, as House Ethics investigators announced their inquiry into whether Nunes illegally revealed classified intelligence.

It marked a stunning change for the former cattle rancher from Central California who drew as much heat himself as the Russia probe itself. Nunes' decision to present intelligence gathered by the White House, almost derailed the House investigation, but instead Nunes was forced aside.

The timeline of Nunes' fall starts the day after the stunning public hearing Nunes led where FBI Director James Comey announced that federal investigators have been examining ties between the campaign of President Donald Trump and Russian operatives since last July.

*Tuesday, March 21 *-- Nunes takes a secret trip to the White House grounds, where he reviews intelligence gathered for him by two top White House staffers that Trump and his supporters would say backs the President's claims that he was a victim of surveillance. The intelligence will later form the core of Trump's counter-offensive against the Russia investigations.

*Wednesday, March 22 *-- Nunes calls a news conference where he reveals that he has seen new evidence that communications from Trump's transition aides -- and possibly Trump himself -- were picked up in "incidental" collection by US intelligence. Nunes travels to the White House to personally brief Trump on his findings (although it remains unclear why Trump's staff did not directly brief him on the findings they presented to Nunes).

*Thursday, March 23 *-- Nunes apologizes to other members of the House Russia investigation for not showing them the intelligence he viewed before going to Trump with it. Nunes promises lawmakers they will soon get copies of the same reports he viewed.

*Friday, March 24 *-- Nunes announces he is delaying a public hearing with former acting Attorney General Sally Yates because he wants Comey and National Security Agency Director Mike Rogers instead in a private briefing. It later reported by the Washington Post that the White House attempted, but failed, to block Yates' testimony, which is expected to focus on communications between former national security adviser Michael Flynn and Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak. The White House denies it sought to prevent Yates' testimony.

Meanwhile, former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, former Trump foreign policy adviser Carter Page and former Trump adviser Roger Stone said they would gladly testify before investigators.

*Monday, March 27 *-- House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi and Rep. Adam Schiff, the lead Democrat on the House Russia investigation, call on Nunes to recuse himself, following reports from CNN and others that Nunes secretly gathered his intelligence on the White House grounds. Nunes, meanwhile, cancels all meetings of the House intelligence committee for the week -- the newest sign that the House Russia investigation is close to running off the rails.

Nunes says he sees no reason to step aside.

*Tuesday, March 28 *-- House Russia investigators were supposed to have their second public hearing with Yates -- instead Republicans and Democrats are locked in a power struggle over who will testify. Comey alerts House Russia investigators he won't return to testify before them if they can't agree on a plan.

*Wednesday, March 29 *-- House Speaker Paul Ryan continues saying in public that he supports Nunes and will not ask for him to step aside. But in an interview with CBS, Ryan keeps Nunes at arm's length -- downplaying how much Nunes told him about the intelligence he gathered at the White House.

*Thursday, March 30 *-- Nunes and Schiff talk for the first time since the ranking Democrat said the chairman had to be removed from the investigation. Flynn's lawyer, a former "Never Trump" Republican, announces that Flynn is ready to testify before House and Senate investigators in return for a guarantee of immunity from prosecution.

*Friday, March 31 *-- CNN and others report that Nunes' sources were not whistleblowers, but instead top staff on the National Security Council -- a former Nunes staffer, Mike Ellis, and a close Flynn ally, Ezra Cohen-Watnick. Schiff travels to the White House to review the intelligence Nunes saw and emerges Friday evening, accusing Nunes and the White House engaging in sleight of hand to distract investigators from the Russia investigation.
Schiff meets briefly with Trump at the White House that evening. Trump promises him that all members of the House intelligence committee will be allowed to view the same intelligence, Schiff says.

*Monday, April 3 *-- Nunes responds to the growing chorus of critics calling for him to step aside: "I don't really listen to what anyone says." Nunes says the Russia investigation is moving along fine and that witnesses could be called in for interviews as the second week of the House's Easter Recess.

The White House, meanwhile, grasps hold of news that the intelligence Nunes viewed at the White House shows former National Security Adviser Susan Rice approved the "unmasking" of Trump aides in intelligence reports -- the charge that becomes the centerpiece of Trump's counter-offensive against the Russia investigations.

*Tuesday, April 4 *-- Ryan meets with Republicans on the House intelligence committee. Later that day, Nunes stops answering questions from the press. Pelosi's staff travels to the White House to view the intelligence reports. House Democrats are briefed on the contents of the intelligence reports that Nunes reviewed.

*Wednesday, April 5* -- Nunes meets with Ryan that night, where he says he will step aside the next day. A Ryan aide refuses to say whether Ryan asked for Nunes to leave the Russia investigation.

Trump tells the New York Times that he thinks Susan Rice committed a crime, but says he doesn't want to talk about the intelligence documents that would show that, when asked if he would declassify them.

*Thursday, April 6 *-- Shortly after 9:30 a.m., Nunes announces he is stepping aside and the House ethics committee announces it is investigating whether Nunes illegally revealed classified information.

A spokesperson for Trump said the White House will not comment on Nunes: "This is an internal matter for the House."

_http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/06/politics/devin-nunes-russia-investigation-ethics/_

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## RabzonKhan

Pres. Trump has done the right thing, so far, I think this was the biggest security crisis his administration faced and he handled it very appropriately (thanks to McMaster, Mattis and Kushner) and I for one, fully support the strikes on Syria, it was long overdue.

Although I was little surprised for his decision, because it clearly represented a reversal from his noninterventionist campaign promises.

I have no doubt, Putin knew, now the million-dollar question is, why did he allowed dictator Assad to carry out chemical attack on its own people, was Putin trying to test or undermine Trump?






Excellent job, I have started to like our ambassador:







LA se Karachi said:


> *Devin Nunes' 16 days from leader of House Russia investigation to target of ethics probe*


One more, Russiangate casualty. I'm loving it!

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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> Pres. Trump has done the right thing, so far, I think this was the biggest security crisis his administration faced and he handled it very appropriately (thanks to McMaster, Mattis and Kushner) and I for one, fully support the strikes on Syria, it was long overdue.
> 
> Although I was little surprised for his decision, because it clearly represented a reversal from his noninterventionist campaign promises.




Agreed. Though the hypocrisy is unbelievable.

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## Nilgiri

LA se Karachi said:


> Agreed. Though the hypocrisy is unbelievable.
> 
> View attachment 389714



Trump clearly has dramabaaz pumping in him hehe. Anyone that uses twitter/social media as much as he has and continues to do....is just setting themselves up for hypocrisy related fact checking.

But he understood there is much bigger problem for him if confronted with military grade (forget CIA grade) evidence of what Assad did and he still chose to do nothing (for the sake/optics of improving Russian relations etc)....because simply put at the very basic level....there are US military bases and larger interests that simply cannot afford chemical warfare in the region (even if its "just" phosgene instead of sarin as claimed earlier).

It is why even though I do not support regime change and other neocon agenda...I am willing to extend him support to this level to draw and enforce a red line esp after the agreement previous admin (Obama) made with russia/assad concerning chemical weapon stockpiles/use.

I am very dissapointed in Tulsi Gabbard and bunch of others spouting their "disappointment" etc.. to be honest. US "establishment" is not always 100% wrong no matter which perspective you may be viewing them from. Assad is no saint and Putin is no angel. They definitely do need to be managed within a threshold....even while allowing optics of "greater good" (i.e strategic fight againt ISIS etc) to proceed.

I wanted to ask both you and @RabzonKhan about it earlier....but forgot....thanks for your views.



RabzonKhan said:


> have no doubt, Putin knew, now the million-dollar question is, why did he allowed dictator Assad to carry out chemical attack on its own people, was Putin trying to test or undermine Trump?



Will have to give some more time to analyse this. I have a suspicion that all is not wunderbar in the Russia-Iran-Assad triangle. Assad was desperate earlier (so a complete sop under his leash)....he decided to strain against the leash (and fling his poop wherever he wanted for whatever reason) as he has felt more assured and just got a big fat smack from the park ranger...and the leash handler/owner may not be happy about it....but maybe he also kinda wanted it to happen deep down ( so the mutt is back to being more controllable/servile as before)...so he didn't have to do it. Lets wait and see how this all plays out. We can speculate now....but only confirm in hindsight.

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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> I for one, fully support the strikes on Syria





LA se Karachi said:


> Agreed



why do you American "liberals" love ISIS, al qaeda and military interventions so much ?



Nilgiri said:


> I am very dissapointed in Tulsi Gabbard and bunch of others spouting their "disappointment" etc..


and I am very disappointed in your jihad loving neocon attitude to these developments

look at the people cheering for this, CNN rat fareed zarakia "today trump became president" , McCain, Graham, the saudis, the "rebels".. only the absolute scum of the earth support this.

not looking good for Trump going forward but I'm willing to give him a chance, it's very possible that this was a carefully choreographed exercise for sake of optics at home (get all the naysayers on board) and as a negotiation tactic when he's hosting Premier Xi.

but given that his anti regime change/intervention stance was pretty much the only reason I supported him strongly, I'm fecking disgusted by Trump helping the murderous salafist scumbag rebel filth and ISIS in Syria. That lot deserves to be gassed, and nuked...


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## Nilgiri

T-72M1 said:


> jihad loving



Jihad loving? Haha....you want to know how many jihadi lunatics Assad has used to fight for him as well? I mean like as bad as ISIS. No side is clean here regarding extremism and civilian murder.

This is not a black and white world out there buddy.

This was a correction for Assad to get back to playing within the rules (and get the job done)...he was probably testing Trump to see if he could get away with it.

All I'm asking is we give this more time to develop so we have a clearer picture rather than jumping up and down like neocons, lefties and alt-right are in all different ways on social media and the MSM. None of them have access to the military intelligence that prompted this move.



T-72M1 said:


> but given that his anti regime change/intervention stance was pretty much the only reason I supported him strongly,



Well you better unsupport him and fast then if this was enough to disgust you...because WMD use after a deal that explicitly called for their destruction is not something any US president...no matter how globalist or isolationist they may be...is going to ignore....not with US bases in the area and Israel and NATO right next door as well (past the optics of civilian populations getting phosgened). Taking out such infrastructure that accomplished WMD delivery in a red line move is pretty much SOP if its not a major power. Reagan notably did purely punitive strikes on Gaddafi without pushing for his removal (which Obama rather recklessly did). I doubt Trump is going to press the regime change button either.....this is rather a mid course guidance re-establishing boundaries.

Latest news is that Trump ordered a CBG deployment to the korean peninsula as well. So stay tuned. There are some chess pieces being moved here and the position needs to settle before we can analyse deeply.

I grounded my support for Trump much more on his domestic economic and immigration policy. So far he is chugging along on that alright....could be doing better, but also a lot worse. I am looking to hire at least 10 Americans this year for a new project at my company, first time we have considered it in 5 years at least past the regular attrition/retirement replacing.


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## T-72M1

Nilgiri said:


> Jihad loving? Haha....you want to know how many jihadi lunatics Assad has used to fight for him as well? I mean like as bad as ISIS. No side is clean here regarding extremism and civilian murder.
> 
> This is not a black and white world out there buddy.


it's clear as day to me, you have the sharia freak rebel terrorist jihadi alliance on side, and then there's those who are killing them.

I strongly support killing the shit out of the rebels and isis, I want max brutality, turn it to 11 and roast them alive, zero sympathy from me.



Nilgiri said:


> This was a correction for Assad to get back to playing within the rules (and get the job done)...he was probably testing Trump to see if he could get away with it.


no, he had no reason to do this, the "rebels" had everything to gain from this, and they did.

what's worrying is that now that their false flag has worked, I fear we're pretty much guaranteed another chemical incident, one that will draw the US all in, not good.



Nilgiri said:


> All I'm asking is we give this more time to develop so we have a clearer picture rather than jumping up and down like neocons, lefties and alt-right are in all different ways on social media and the MSM. None of them have access to the military intelligence that prompted this move.


intelligence my ***, those who fail to learn from history..








Nilgiri said:


> Well you better unsupport him and fast then if this was enough to disgust you...because WMD use after a deal that explicitly called for their destruction is not something any US president...no matter how globalist or isolationist they may be...is going to ignore....not with US bases in the area and Israel and NATO right next door as well (past the optics of civilian populations getting phosgened). Taking out such infrastructure that accomplished WMD delivery in a red line move is pretty much SOP if its not a major power. Reagan notably did purely punitive strikes on Gaddafi without pushing for his removal (which Obama rather recklessly did). I doubt Trump is going to press the regime change button either.....this is rather a mid course guidance re-establishing boundaries.


like I said, I'm willing to give him a chance because it might have been a carefully choreographed move, all this going down during the Xi visit, hmm..



Nilgiri said:


> Latest news is that Trump ordered a CBG deployment to the korean peninsula as well. So stay tuned. There are some chess pieces being moved here and the position needs to settle before we can analyse deeply.


yep, I'm watching that too but the MENA front is the bigger festering wound, that's where the big visible moves will happen.

Trump also recently said that isis is just one of many groups he wants to take out, so that gives me hope, and the recent bombing of the terror mosque where they attacked people running away from the initial bombing, that was some good shit. 

let's see, fun times ahead but I still hate that he helped the rebels in Syria on this one.


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## Nilgiri

T-72M1 said:


> it's clear as day to me, you have the sharia freak rebel terrorist jihadi alliance on side, and then there's those who are killing them.
> 
> I strongly support killing the shit out of the rebels and isis, I want max brutality, turn it to 11 and roast them alive, zero sympathy from me.
> 
> 
> no, he had no reason to do this, the "rebels" had everything to gain from this, and they did.
> 
> what's worrying is that now that their false flag has worked, I fear we're pretty much guaranteed another chemical incident, one that will draw the US all in, not good.
> 
> 
> intelligence my ***, those who fail to learn from history..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> like I said, I'm willing to give him a chance because it might have been a carefully choreographed move, all this going down during the Xi visit, hmm..
> 
> 
> yep, I'm watching that too but the MENA front is the bigger festering wound, that's where the big visible moves will happen.
> 
> Trump also recently said that isis is just one of many groups he wants to take out, so that gives me hope, and the recent bombing of the terror mosque where they attacked people running away from the initial bombing, that was some good shit.
> 
> let's see, fun times ahead but I still hate that he helped the rebels in Syria on this one.



Well you seem to be banned now. Please tag me when you are back. More will have developed by then probably so more hindsight offered. In the mean time I suggest you to watch blackpigeonspeaks on kabuki theatre....he brings up quite a few good points to the end of the video.....which if how it plays out is very interesting move by Trump.


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## RabzonKhan

He’s a tough guy and a straight shooter, and that’s why I like him. 

*Mattis Sends Don't-Mess-With-Us Message to Syria*
Military.com | 11 Apr 2017 | by Richard Sisk and Oriana Pawlyk







Don't even think about it, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said Monday to the Syrian regime of President Bashar al-Assad on employing chemical weapons.

*"The Syrian government would be ill-advised ever again to use chemical weapons," Mattis said, suggesting that the U.S. response would far more intense than the 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles launched last Thursday from the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers Ross and Porter in the eastern Mediterranean.*

In a characteristically brief statement, Mattis rejected the claims of Russia, Assad's chief supporter, that many of the T-LAMs, or Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles, missed their targets and the rest caused little damage to the Shayrat airfield north of Damascus.

"The assessment of the Department of Defense is that the strike resulted in the damage or destruction of fuel and ammunition sites, air defense capabilities, and 20 percent of Syria's operational aircraft," he said.

Mattis also suggested that Syrian state TV showing aircraft taking off the day after the attacks was meant to cover up the severe damage that had been inflicted. The Pentagon said on the night of the attacks that the runways deliberately were not targeted since they were easy to repair.

Mattis said, "The Syrian government has lost the ability to refuel or rearm aircraft at Shayrat airfield and, at this point, use of the runway is of idle military interest."

The missile strikes were the latest sign of the more aggressive stance taken by the Pentagon since Mattis took over in January. The U.S. has sent more troops into Iraq and Syria in line with what Mattis has called an "accelerated" campaign against the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. *Link*

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## RabzonKhan

Nilgiri said:


> Trump clearly has dramabaaz pumping in him hehe. Anyone that uses twitter/social media as much as he has and continues to do....is just setting themselves up for hypocrisy related fact checking.
> 
> But he understood there is much bigger problem for him if confronted with military grade (forget CIA grade) evidence of what Assad did and he still chose to do nothing (for the sake/optics of improving Russian relations etc)....because simply put at the very basic level....there are US military bases and larger interests that simply cannot afford chemical warfare in the region (even if its "just" phosgene instead of sarin as claimed earlier).
> 
> It is why even though I do not support regime change and other neocon agenda...I am willing to extend him support to this level to draw and enforce a red line esp after the agreement previous admin (Obama) made with russia/assad concerning chemical weapon stockpiles/use.
> 
> I am very dissapointed in Tulsi Gabbard and bunch of others spouting their "disappointment" etc.. to be honest. US "establishment" is not always 100% wrong no matter which perspective you may be viewing them from. Assad is no saint and Putin is no angel. They definitely do need to be managed within a threshold....even while allowing optics of "greater good" (i.e strategic fight againt ISIS etc) to proceed.
> 
> I wanted to ask both you and @RabzonKhan about it earlier....but forgot....thanks for your views.
> 
> 
> 
> Will have to give some more time to analyse this. I have a suspicion that all is not wunderbar in the Russia-Iran-Assad triangle. Assad was desperate earlier (so a complete sop under his leash)....he decided to strain against the leash (and fling his poop wherever he wanted for whatever reason) as he has felt more assured and just got a big fat smack from the park ranger...and the leash handler/owner may not be happy about it....but maybe he also kinda wanted it to happen deep down ( so the mutt is back to being more controllable/servile as before)...so he didn't have to do it. Lets wait and see how this all plays out. We can speculate now....but only confirm in hindsight.


I based my opinion on the fact that without Russian help the bloodsucking dictator would be history.

And there is tons of circumstances evidence that shows Russia was definitely involved:

1. In 2013 the Russians signed an agreement with the Obama administration to act as guarantor for securing, destroying and continuing to monitor that there are no chemical weapons in Syria. In other words, they must have had pretty good information on their chemical weapons.

2. Russia has a military base at the Shaayrat base, note, this is the same base from where the Syrian planes flew. How is it possible that the Russians will not know that there is a stockpile of siren gas in the base, absolutely impossible. *Link*

3. And according to a senior US official after Syria’s chemical weapon attack a Russian drone was flying over the hospital where the victim of the attack were being treated. Hours after the drone left, a Russian-made fighter jet bombed the hospital in what American officials believe was an attempt to cover up usage of the chemical weapons. *Link*

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## RabzonKhan

*The Russia story just keeps getting worse for President Trump
*
Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-Large April 12, 2017

Washington (CNN)Two stories dealing with Russia's meddling in the election broke Tuesday night. And both were full of bad news for President Donald Trump.

*The first, an exclusive to CNN, revealed that a number of Democratic and Republican lawmakers on the House and Senate intelligence committees who have seen classified documents see no evidence that Obama administration officials did anything unusual or illegal, further suggesting Rep. Devin Nunes, R-California, misled Trump (and the public) when he described documents relating to the unmasking of Trump campaign officials caught up in an incidental collection operation by the intelligence community.*

_"Their private assessment contradicts President Donald Trump's allegations that former Obama national security adviser Susan Rice broke the law by requesting the "unmasking" of US individuals' identities. Trump had claimed the matter was a 'massive story.'"_
The second, broken by The Washington Post, reveals that the FBI obtained a secret 

*Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court court warrant in August 2016 aimed at monitoring the communications of one-time Trump foreign policy adviser Carter Page. The key paragraph:*
_*"The FBI and the Justice Department obtained the warrant targeting Carter Page's communications after convincing a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court judge that there was probable cause to believe Page was acting as an agent of a foreign power, in this case Russia, according to the officials."*_

*Scroll up. Read that one again. It's a "wow."* Page has denied any wrongdoing. What's become clear over the first few months of the Trump White House is that we aren't in the midst of a "he said-she said" when it comes to the campaign's ties to Russia. It's more of a "he alleged-he said, he said, she said, he said, he said" sort of situation.

*As in, on the one hand, we have Trump asserting that the whole story of Russia's attempts to influence the election via connections within his campaign apparatus is "fake news," and grasping at the idea that somehow, some way he will be eventually proven right in his baseless claims that then-President Barack Obama ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower.*

On the other, we have FBI Director James Comey, former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, the heads of both the House and Senate intelligence committees -- both Republicans -- and lots and lots of other prominent voices within the intelligence community insisting the Russian investigation is entirely justified and that no evidence exists for Trump's claims.

It's not a fair fight -- and shouldn't be presented as one. And that has zero to do with partisanship and everything to do with the facts as we know them.

The best path forward for President Trump as it relates to Russia is to pivot from his current this-is-all-fake-news stance to one in which he embraces both the congressional and Justice Department investigations into the Russian meddling into the election. Given the amount of smoke surrounding Trump's campaign and Russia, it's no longer really a question whether it merits an investigation into whether there's some fire at its center.

Simply because that's the path Trump _should_ take, of course, doesn't mean it's the one he _will_choose. In fact, for someone who prides himself on zigging when everyone thinks he should zag, Trump likely won't follow this path. But all that ensures is that the Russia story will just keep getting worse for him and his administration. *Link*













Devin Nunes, the chairman of the House intelligence committee is gone, thank goodness, but unfortunately, Mike Conaway the new chairman, totally lacks logic and is a pro-Trump guy.

Few months ago he gave an interview to a Dallas newspaper, he compared the use of Mexican entertainers to the Russians hacking of the election. According to the genius:

“Democrats brought in Mexican soap opera stars, singers and entertainers who had immense influence in those communities into Las Vegas, to entertain, get out the vote and so forth,” “Those are foreign actors, foreign people, influencing the vote in Nevada. You don’t hear the Democrats screaming and saying one word about that.” 

Asked whether he considers that on par with Russian cyber-intrusions that aimed to damage Hillary Clinton’s campaign, Conaway said: “Sure it is, it’s foreign influence. If we’re worried about foreign influence, let’s have the whole story.”

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> I based my opinion on the fact that without Russian help the bloodsucking dictator would be history.
> 
> And there is tons of circumstances evidence that shows Russia was definitely involved:
> 
> 1. In 2013 the Russians signed an agreement with the Obama administration to act as guarantor for securing, destroying and continuing to monitor that there are no chemical weapons in Syria. In other words, they must have had pretty good information on their chemical weapons.
> 
> 2. Russia has a military base at the Shaayrat base, note, this is the same base from where the Syrian planes flew. How is it possible that the Russians will not know that there is a stockpile of siren gas in the base, absolutely impossible. *Link*
> 
> 3. And according to a senior US official after Syria’s chemical weapon attack a Russian drone was flying over the hospital where the victim of the attack were being treated. Hours after the drone left, a Russian-made fighter jet bombed the hospital in what American officials believe was an attempt to cover up usage of the chemical weapons. *Link*



Remember Putin is an old KGB hand. You know how these intel guys work: they are professional liars. Putin is very good at it.

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## RabzonKhan

What’s going on with our president, over the past week, Pres. Trump has flip-flopped on many issues. Once upon a time, he campaigned as a noninterventionist, well, he fired 59 Tomahawks at Syria and dropped MOAB (mother of all bombs) on a ISIS terrorist base in Afghanistan, he no longer considers Chinese as currency manipulating “cheaters”, NATO is not “obsolete” but is a relevant alliance, did not defend Russia’s position on Syria and now he calls the media “honorable people”. 

I'm loving it!

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> What’s going on with our president, over the past week, Pres. Trump has flip-flopped on many issues. Once upon a time, he campaigned as a noninterventionist, well, he fired 59 Tomahawks at Syria and dropped MOAB (mother of all bombs) on a ISIS terrorist base in Afghanistan, he no longer considers Chinese as currency manipulating “cheaters”, NATO is not “obsolete” but is a relevant alliance, did not defend Russia’s position on Syria and now he calls the media “honorable people”.
> 
> I'm loving it!



May be he's sobering up on what being POTUS actually entails. It's all about compromise, incremental changes. I can only imagine what some of his hardcore supporters think about his flip-flopping, but it's a bit early to say they are going to rebel.

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## VFY

You cannot overthrow Assad without also overthrowing Khamanei. Otherwise the job is half-done.


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> What’s going on with our president, over the past week, Pres. Trump has flip-flopped on many issues. Once upon a time, he campaigned as a noninterventionist, well, he fired 59 Tomahawks at Syria and dropped MOAB (mother of all bombs) on a ISIS terrorist base in Afghanistan, he no longer considers Chinese as currency manipulating “cheaters”, NATO is not “obsolete” but is a relevant alliance, did not defend Russia’s position on Syria and now he calls the media “honorable people”.
> 
> I'm loving it!



Trump is compromising where he sees maximum mileage at little cost...I expected him to do it.

This is right out of the Andrew Jackson and W.T Sherman playbooks.

You have to put the extreme position down initially so there is a favourable exchange in the long term...its pretty business-like if you ask me.

Being PC to start with means you pander to lots of people (and lessen your own USP esp in a crowd of PCers)....but there is no overall impulse to the status quo.

BTW the "honorable" comment on the media was more a tongue in cheek thing hehe. 

NATO compromised (on budgeting and more optics on ISIS) with Trump, so Trump naturally changed how he labels them as well.

Same with China (greater access to their financial services market, and cooperation on the norks in return for Trump not attacking them openly)...but they remain along with 5 other countries on a watchlist of currency problem-makers which leaves more negotiating down the road as the US economy stabilizes in 1 - 2 years.

Overall Trump has to deliver one major thing: jobs and economic revival to the rust belt. If he keeps those states red, his 2nd term is assured (because the southern, midwestern bedrock of his support will always be assured given the dems are moving further away from what those folk vote for). The rest is open for creative compromises where needed.

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## T-72M1

Nilgiri said:


> Trump is compromising where he sees maximum mileage at little cost...I expected him to do it.
> 
> This is right out of the Andrew Jackson and W.T Sherman playbooks.
> 
> You have to put the extreme position down initially so there is a favourable exchange in the long term...its pretty business-like if you ask me.
> 
> Being PC to start with means you pander to lots of people (and lessen your own USP esp in a crowd of PCers)....but there is no overall impulse to the status quo.
> 
> BTW the "honorable" comment on the media was more a tongue in cheek thing hehe.
> 
> NATO compromised (on budgeting and more optics on ISIS) with Trump, so Trump naturally changed how he labels them as well.
> 
> Same with China (greater access to their financial services market, and cooperation on the norks in return for Trump not attacking them openly)...but they remain along with 5 other countries on a watchlist of currency problem-makers which leaves more negotiating down the road as the US economy stabilizes in 1 - 2 years.
> 
> Overall Trump has to deliver one major thing: jobs and economic revival to the rust belt. If he keeps those states red, his 2nd term is assured (because the southern, midwestern bedrock of his support will always be assured given the dems are moving further away from what those folk vote for). The rest is open for creative compromises where needed.


but even a 4D chess grandmaster like Trump can make mistakes, came close to a big one with the Syrian firework display, and that danger still looms.

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## gambit

Nilgiri said:


> You have to put the extreme position down initially so there is a favourable exchange in the long term...its pretty business-like if you ask me.


You cannot be a 'moderate' unless you must *FIRST* be in the 'extreme'. From one extreme, you can at least infer the other extreme, if you are not able to study and understand it. Only then, can you moderate your *RESPONSES* according to the situation at hand.

You believe in honesty, but will you tell your friend that his tie is clashes with his suit ? Maybe you will, but if you *CHOSE* not to, then you have moderated your response from that absolute belief of being honest.

Clump is a political animal in the truest sense of the phrase.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/21/politics/trump-religion-gospel/


> "I don't like to analyze myself," Trump told biographer D'Antonio, "because I might not like what I see."


And that animal -- if you are willing to use the Native American belief of having a totem (spirit) animal -- would be a chameleon for Dump.

Frump's lack of moral convictions is evident throughout his life and that gives him the freedom to change his political colors, views, and finally -- responses to situations. Bump is *THE* businessman. Whether he is a good businessman and deal maker as he portrays himself to be is for a different debate and one that would involve intimate details of his business empire to assess his business acumen at the technical level. But if we are talking about the man's basic nature, Chump is all business and nothing else.

Maybe at this time in American political life, a chameleon businessman is needed and Stump just happened to be the most attractive. Americans -- even his supporters -- do find him distasteful, but it seems the collective instinct here is that 'we' can overlook Crump's moral lacking and let his business skills to work, hopefully, to our benefits.


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## gambit

http://www.refinery29.com/2016/11/128994/secret-voter-donald-trump-hillary-clinton


> "I’m a lot more scared of what Hillary does than what Trump says..."


Here is where people, from American Hillary Clinton supporters to interested observers from other countries, really *DO NOT* understand how much Hillary Clinton is disliked by Americans.

American conservatives are generally not as vocal about their politics as their liberal cousins, never mind Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. The result is that foreigners confused being vocal with being popular. They think that all those American liberals marching in the streets protesting Trump equals to overwhelming anti-Trump sentiments among the American electorate. So when Trump won, they were shocked and in their despair, they insult Americans in general.

News for the foreigners...

Trump may usually display an elementary school vocabulary, but he is far from stupid. He may not be an intellectual in the sense that Eurosnobs placed themselves over the hoi-polloi, but he is shrewd enough to understand people's desires and anxieties. He understands that the broken John Deere tractor is more important than debating Nietzche in the university quad, so he appropriately tailored his campaign.

Underestimate Trump at your peril.


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## LA se Karachi

*State Department Posts on Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Raises Ethics Concern*

by Tracy Connor






*A glowing description of President Donald Trump's Florida estate, Mar-a-Lago — calling it the "winter White House" — has been posted on two State Department websites, drawing criticism from ethics watchdogs and Democrats. 

The item, published ahead of an early April meeting with China's president at the Palm Beach club, recounts the club's history and Trump's purchase and gilded redecoration of the property where he's spent half his weekends since taking office. *

Under the heading "A Dream Deferred" — drawing on a famous line from the Langston Hughes poem "Harlem" — it says the original socialite owner wanted Mar-a-Lago to be a retreat for American presidents but notes it didn't happen until Trump won the election.

The text appears on the website for Share America, a State Department platform intended to "spark discussion and debate on important topics" and on the website for the U.S. Embassy in the United Kingdom.

Democratic House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi was among those taking to Twitter to question whether the posts violated government ethics rules.

A State Department spokesman declined to comment on the posts. But three ethics watchdogs who reviewed the posts told NBC News they are troubling.

"They represent violations of a federal ethics regulation which prohibits the use of public office to endorse a product or enterprise," said Kathleen Clark, a professor at Washington University Law.

"Calling it the 'winter White House' appears to suggest that Mar-a-Lago has an official governmental role, which would appear to provide a governmental endorsement."

Jordan Libowitz of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington said the post "reads almost like an ad for Mar-a-Lago."

"If they weren't trying to drive business there, you have to wonder what they were doing," said Libowitz, who has previously sued Trump over other alleged ethics violations.

John Wonderlich of the Sunlight Foundation said it didn't matter that the context for the posts was Trump's meeting with China's Xi Jinping.

"Publishing promotional materials for the President's private business is clearly inappropriate, whether he is using it for official business or not," he said. "There is only one White House. If you're telling the story of Mar-a-Lago, it's the president's private business."

*Mar-a-Lago has been a lightning rod for those accusing the Trump administration of conflicts of interest. 

While Trump has turned over control his businesses to his sons, critics have pointed out that initiation fees were doubled to $200,000 after his election and that the president's frequent appearances there could provide unique access to him for those who can pay. 

As NBC News has reported, since his January inauguration, Trump has spent seven of 14 weekends at Mar-a-Lago and at least 28 percent of his term traveling to or staying at the estate. 
*
_http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...rump-s-mar-lago-raises-ethics-concern-n750406_

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## F-22Raptor



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## F-22Raptor

American democracy is winning... so far


On the 100th day of his presidency, Donald Trump again attacked the media and stoked the embers of divisiveness that fueled his election. But on the very same day, Americans -- even the majority who disapprove of Trump's presidency -- could find reasons to celebrate.

No, Trump has not turned out to be any less inflammatory as a president than he was as a candidate. And it's far too early to claim the US has averted disaster. But the American people's reaction to Trump's election has proven much stronger than anyone expected.

And with the 100-day marker signaling the end of the beginning of his presidency, Americans, and a closely-watching world, can take note: America's system of democracy is strong. It's strong enough to stand up to a man with visceral authoritarian tendencies and who came to power surrounded by conspiracy-minded ideologues vowing to "deconstruct" the system.

As Trump spoke before a large crowd (not an "all-time record," as he claimed) in Pennsylvania, journalists gathered in Washington to highlight the importance of a free press for the survival of democracy.

Trump was the first president to stay away from the White House correspondents' dinner since 1981, when Ronald Reagan couldn't attend because he was recovering from an assassination attempt. Reagan sent his regrets.

Trump insulted the press, calling them "enemies of the people" -- a phrase favored by Stalin -- in the hopes that people will ignore the news that is not to his liking, including approval ratings that are lower than any modern president's at this point in his term.

Complaining about his failure to achieve very much, Trump also called the American system "archaic," or bad for the country.

The reality is rather the opposite. The system is working surprisingly well.

From the day he took office, it became clear that Americans who saw Trump as a threat to the country's fundamental values would not sit home and mope -- or run off to hide in Canada.

Incensed to see a man who bragged about sexual assault become president, women on Inauguration Day organized marches in every state of the union. And they succeeded, with millions taking to the streets in what may have been the biggest single day of demonstration in US history. That sent a powerful message to Congress and helped energize the nation.

By then, Trump's disdain for the First Amendment, his constant efforts to discredit the media, his blatant efforts to cash in on the presidency, his verbal attacks on refugees and immigrants and his entourage of conspiracy theorists and climate deniers had already sounded the alarm. Many started calling themselves "the resistance," a term more commonly used during times of foreign occupation, and a sign that they view Trump not as a president with whom they disagree, but as a genuine and severe threat to the country.

Popular resistance to Trump started paying off immediately. When the White House issued an executive order banning immigrants from seven Muslim majority countries from entering the country, spontaneous demonstrators swarmed airports across the country. Lawyers with laptops sitting on airport floors drafted legal documents. Attorneys general and state prosecutors filed emergency cases before judges in several states.

Incredibly, Trump's orders were blocked. The president was furious. And when he rewrote the plan, it was blocked again.

The separation of powers worked. Independent judges did their job. The federal system worked. Independent states challenged the federal government. The Constitution worked. The Founding Fathers, who might have been turning in their graves hearing Trump's multiple verbal assaults on the freedoms they espoused, would have been happy to see their design hold up under fire.

A free press has shone a bright light on the Trump team's secret ties to Russia. Because of journalists, we learned that Mike Flynn, Trump's dangerous choice for National Security Advisor, lied about meetings with Russian officials and was paid as an agent of Turkey. Trump replaced him with Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster, a widely praised addition to a foreign policy team that now includes some well-qualified, reasonable figures.

In the meantime, multiple congressional investigations and an FBI probe are looking into Russia's involvement in the election and the possible links with Trump's campaign. The Republican-led congressional side of the investigations is far from impressive, but it is occurring. In most countries, this would be unimaginable. The FBI and Congress, investigating a foreign government the president praised repeatedly on the campaign trail and in the early days of his administration, are seemingly open to following the evidence as far as it leads, even if it leads to Trump himself.

But perhaps nothing is more astonishing that Trump's failure to make progress on most of his signature promises, even though his party controls all three branches of government.

In the meantime, multiple congressional investigations and an FBI probe are looking into Russia's involvement in the election and the possible links with Trump's campaign. The Republican-led congressional side of the investigations is far from impressive, but it is occurring. In most countries, this would be unimaginable. The FBI and Congress, investigating a foreign government the president praised repeatedly on the campaign trail and in the early days of his administration, are seemingly open to following the evidence as far as it leads, even if it leads to Trump himself.

But perhaps nothing is more astonishing that Trump's failure to make progress on most of his signature promises, even though his party controls all three branches of government.

So far, the presidency has proven a difficult and frustrating exercise for Trump. No wonder he said the job is harder than he expected. But it's early yet. One hundred days still leaves more than 90% of a presidential term.

History will record that the Trump presidency was a major test for American democracy and its system of government. The good news is that Americans are actively defending their rights. Democracy is winning. So far.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/30/opinions/american-democracy-strong-opinion-ghitis/index.html

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## Vergennes



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## F-22Raptor

Note to President Trump: Andrew Jackson wasn't alive for the Civil War


In audio posted on Monday, President Trump said Andrew Jackson, the seventh president of the United States, was "really angry" about what was happening with the Civil War.

There's one major problem with that statement: Jackson died in 1845, nearly 16 years before the Civil War began.

Let's dissect the full quote, sentence by sentence.

*"I mean, had Andrew Jackson been a little bit later, you wouldn't have had the Civil War."*

This is in the vein of imagining various alternate histories of the United States.

*"He was a very tough person, but he had a big heart."*

Jackson was known for his temper and his loyalty to his friends, so this is OK.

*"He was really angry that-- he saw what was happening with regard to the Civil War."*

Jackson did not, because Jackson was dead.

*"He said, 'There's no reason for this.'"*

See above.

Trump's quote came during an interview with the _Washington Examiner_'s Salena Zito. The two discussed Trump's visit to Tennessee in March, during which he toured the Hermitage, laid a wreath at Jackson's tomb and called him the "people's president."

SiriusXM revealed the quote in audio of the interview, which will air on SiriusXM P.O.T.U.S.'s Main Street Meets the Beltway show later on Monday. The _Examiner_ story only mentions Jackson to note that the seventh president's portrait now hangs in the Oval Office.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...drew-jackson-wasnt-alive-civil-war/101149060/






Thought this was hilarious.

"How do you like me now?"- W

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## cloud4000

We have survived 100-days of Trump. The sky has not fallen as Democrats claimed it would. Trump thought he could do what he wanted, but has been checked by both Congress and the courts.

I think the US system of government is actually working!


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## Nilgiri

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 394031



Illegal immigration down more than 50% (higher depending how you measure it).

Constitutionalist judge gets into supreme court.

Education turning into pro-voucher + pro-decentralisation.

Business optimism at 12 year high. Small business optimism at 43 year high.

It is how they will now translate on the ground that matters the most compared to arbitrary allocation of time to judge (100 days).

Trump took a extreme position initially (esp in foreign policy) so negotiation and compromise is more favourable (like how he has got other NATO countries to cough up their fair share over time and got China to keep tighter leash on fat kim, and same concerning Russia with Assad). If you start out politically correct, you turn into another DC swamper like obama over time....everyone effectively ends up walking all over you in the end and at best its status quo.

Obama's idea that democracy would work in the middle east magically is one such result of it. Trump on the other hand is getting along with Sisi and the host of M.E monarchs as necessary pragmatic people to establish stability, law and order in their countries....but not beyond administering a focused slap when they go overboard like with Assad.


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## gambit

cloud4000 said:


> We have survived 100-days of Trump. The sky has not fallen as Democrats claimed it would. Trump thought he could do what he wanted, but has been checked by both Congress and the courts.
> 
> *I think the US system of government is actually working!*


The system never failed. I lived before the Internet, basically, prehistoric to you kids. There was an article -- on printed paper -- that essentially said of all the types of leaders in modern times, the US President is the least powerful. Of all the office's duties and responsibilities, only foreign affairs is the US President comparable to other types.


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## CBU-105

lol, so what's everyone's thoughts on Colbert's 'cock-holster' comment ?  

@Nilgiri @LA se Karachi @cloud4000 @RabzonKhan and others


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## F-22Raptor

A disgusting abuse of power today by Trump. His firing of Comey is up there with Nixon firing Archibald Cox in the Watergate Scandal.

I hope Congress and the intel community fight this doofus to the very end.

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## Nilgiri

F-22Raptor said:


> A disgusting abuse of power today by Trump. His firing of Comey is up there with Nixon firing Archibald Cox in the Watergate Scandal.
> 
> I hope Congress and the intel community fight this doofus to the very end.



You realise the recommendation for his firing came from the deputy AG (Rosenstein) who was served as maryland attorney under the obama administration and passed in the senate by 94 - 6?

Stop grabbing on to everything CNN hollers as the verbatim truth.

Just listen to what pretty much every former AG and deputy AG have said regarding Comey (including Eric Holder) thus far if you don't believe me.

https://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/d...s-from-the-white-house-attorney-general/2430/

Worth reading:

http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...od-rosenstein-memo-gives-bipartisan-rationale


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## LA se Karachi

F-22Raptor said:


> A disgusting abuse of power today by Trump. His firing of Comey is up there with Nixon firing Archibald Cox in the Watergate Scandal.




Not quite as bad as Nixon. But pretty bad, nonetheless. Even members of his own party are criticizing him.



F-22Raptor said:


> I hope Congress and the intel community fight this doofus to the very end.




Agreed.

At the end of the day, however, Trump is his own worst enemy. He briefly righted the ship with his actions regarding Flynn/Russia, Assad/Syria, and China. But he inevitably reverted to making mistakes again, and will continue to do so, as he has demonstrated thus far.

@RabzonKhan, @cloud4000, @anon45, @AMDR --- Your thoughts?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Reactions to Trump firing James Comey *
Carolyn Kaster / AP

President Trump fired FBI Director James Comey suddenly on Tuesday evening, noting that his decision came on the recommendations of Attorney General Jeff Sessions and deputy AG Rod Rosenstein. The reactions:


*Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer on* Trump's firings of Sally Yates, Preet Bharara, and James Comey: "This does not seem to be a coincidence."
*Edward Snowden: *"Set aside politics: every American should condemn such political interference in the Bureau's work. This FBI Director has sought for years to jail me on account of my political activities. If I can oppose his firing, so can you."
*Sen. Ed Markey (D-MA):* Comey firing "disturbingly reminiscent of the Saturday Night Massacre during the Watergate scandal &the natl turmoil that it caused."
Keep reading ... words

*ACLU: *"The independence of the FBI director is meant to ensure that the president does not operate above the law. For President Trump to fire the man responsible for investigating his own campaign's ties to the Russians imperils that fundamental principle."
*Rep. Justin Amash (R-MI):* My staff and I are reviewing legislation to establish an independent commission on Russia. The second paragraph of this letter is bizarre.
*Sen. Richard Burr (R-NC*), Intel committee chairman: "I am troubled by the timing and reasoning of Director Comey's termination."
*Sen. Jeff Flake (R-AZ)*: "I've spent the last several hours trying to find an acceptable rationale for the timing of Comey's firing. I just can't do it."
*Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA):* "The FBI Director serves at the pleasure of the president. Under these circumstances, president Trump accepted the recommendation of the Justice Department that the Director lacked the confidence needed to carry out his important duties."
*Sen. John McCain (R-AZ): *"I am disappointed in the President's decision to remove James Comey from office. James Comey is a man of honor and integrity, and he has led the FBI well in extraordinary circumstances."
*Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA), *ranking member on House Oversight committee: The firing "harkens back to a similarly tainted decision by President Nixon."
*Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)*: "But does anyone seriously believe @realDonaldTrump fired the top person investigating his ties to Russia because he was unfair to Hillary?"
*Sen. Tim Kaine (D-VA): *"Trump firing Comey shows how frightened the Admin is over Russia investigation."
*Sen. Bob Casey (D-PA):* "This is Nixonian." Called for immediate appointment of special counsel on Trump/Russia.
*Fox News' Sean Hannity:* "Comey Fired!!! Finally."
*Brian Fallon,* *national press secretary for Hillary* Clinton's 2016 campaign: "I'm not shedding any tears for Comey personally -he hurt FBI's reputation- but I do worry whether we ever get to the bottom of Russia now."
*DNC Chair Tom Perez:* "Trump fired the man investigating him — a deeply dangerous abuse of power. We need a special prosecutor, now."
*Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD):* Calls for emergency hearings, says it's "mind boggling" that Sessions "was directly involved" in call to fire.
*Rep. Gerry Connolly (D-VA): *"Time to revive Watergate vocabulary: obstruction, cover-up, suborn, conspiracy, inoperative, criminal conspiracy, independent prosecutor."
_https://www.axios.com/reactions-to-trump-firing-james-comey-live-updates-2400475532.html_

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## Nilgiri

Worth revisiting what Eric Holder wrote in 2016:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...3a007c77bb4_story.html?utm_term=.63d71ed8026a

Especially important excerpt:

The department has a practice of not commenting on ongoing investigations. Indeed, except in exceptional circumstances, the department will not even acknowledge the existence of an investigation. The department also has a policy of not taking unnecessary action close in time to Election Day that might influence an election’s outcome. These rules have been followed during Republican and Democratic administrations. They aren’t designed to help any particular individual or to serve any political interest. Instead, they are intended to ensure that every investigation proceeds fairly and judiciously; to maintain the public trust in the department’s ability to do its job free of political influence; and to prevent investigations from unfairly or unintentionally casting public suspicion on public officials who have done nothing wrong.

Director Comey broke with these fundamental principles. I fear he has unintentionally and negatively affected public trust in both the Justice Department and the FBI. And he has allowed — again without improper motive — misinformation to be spread by partisans with less pure intentions. Already, we have learned that the importance of the discovery itself may have been overblown. According to the director himself, there is no indication yet that the “newly discovered” emails bear any significance at all. And yet, because of his decision to comment on this development before sufficient facts were known, the public has faced a torrent of conspiracy theories and misrepresentations.

This controversy has its roots in the director’s July decision to hold a news conference announcing his recommendation that the Justice Department bring no charges against Hillary Clinton. Instead of making a private recommendation to the attorney general — consistent with Justice Department policy — he chose to publicly share his professional recommendation, as well as his personal opinions, about the case. That was a stunning breach of protocol. It may set a dangerous precedent for future investigations. It was wrong.

The director said in July that he chose to take that extraordinary step in response to intense public interest. During my 12-year service in the Public Integrity Section and as attorney general, I worked on some of the most politically sensitive cases that our country saw. The additional public scrutiny such investigations provoke makes it even more important that we handle those cases consistently and responsibly. That is exactly why guidelines are put in place: so that Justice Department leaders, including FBI directors, will not substitute their own judgments and opinions for reasoned, fair, coherent and time-tested policy.

I am mindful of the unique facts that surrounded the July decision. The airplane meeting between the attorney general and former President Bill Clinton led to the perception among some that inappropriate communications occurred. Perceptions matter. But the solution was not for the FBI director to announce the department’s decision about whether to proceed. That determination — and how or whether it should have been be publicly revealed — rested with department lawyers, after consultation with FBI counterparts.

If the attorney general determined that she could not participate in the process, the deputy attorney general, Sally Yates, a respected, apolitical, career prosecutor, should have stood in her place. Any comments should have come from the attorney general or deputy attorney general, the people who always communicate prosecutorial decisions made by the department. And let me be clear: Far less than that which was shared in the July news conference, and afterward, should have been revealed.


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## F-22Raptor

Grand jury subpoenas issued in FBI's Russia investigation

Federal prosecutors have issued grand jury subpoenas to associates of former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn seeking business records, as part of the ongoing probe of Russian meddling in last year's election, according to people familiar with the matter. CNN learned of the subpoenas hours before President Donald Trump fired FBI director James Comey.

The subpoenas represent the first sign of a significant escalation of activity in the FBI's broader investigation begun last July into possible ties between Trump campaign associates and Russia.

The subpoenas issued in recent weeks by the US Attorney's Office in Alexandria, Virginia, were received by associates who worked with Flynn on contracts after he was forced out as director of the Defense Intelligence Agency in 2014, according to the people familiar with the investigation.

Robert Kelner, an attorney for Flynn, declined to comment. The US Attorney's Office in Alexandria, the Justice Department and the FBI also declined to comment.

Investigators have been looking into possible wrongdoing in how Flynn handled disclosures about payments from clients tied to foreign governments including Russia and Turkey, US officials briefed on the matter have told CNN.

The Flynn inquiry is one piece of the broader investigation, which FBI Director James Comey testified in a Senate hearing last week is led jointly by the Alexandria US Attorney's Office and the Justice Department's National Security Division.

Flynn was forced to resign as Trump's national security advisor in February after failing to disclose the nature of phone discussions with Russia's ambassador in Washington, Sergey Kislyak.

Congressional investigators have also accused Flynn of possibly breaking the law by not properly disclosing a $45,000 payment for an appearance he made at an event in Moscow to celebrate Russia Today. The Russian government-funded news outlet that US intelligence agencies say played a key role in disseminating stolen emails intended to damage the candidacy of Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential election.

lynn's lawyer, Robert Kelner, has said that Flynn was not hiding anything, noting that he briefed the DIA on his trip to Russia.

"As has previously been reported, General Flynn briefed the Defense Intelligence Agency, a component agency of DoD, extensively regarding the RT speaking event trip both before and after the trip, and he answered any questions that were posed by DIA concerning the trip during those briefings," Kelner said in a statement.

In March, Flynn's lobbying firm registered as a foreign agent for the Turkish government, under a $500,000 contract.

Flynn, a retired Army lieutenant general, emerged in 2015 as a strident critic of the Obama administration, which fired him. He built a close relationship last year with then-candidate Trump and became a frequent Trump campaign surrogate before assuming a brief tenure as national security advisor.

US Attorney Dana Boente, whose office issued the subpoenas, is also leading the investigation into WikiLeaks and the effort to bring possible charges against the group's founder, Julian Assange. Boente is also acting as head of the Justice Department's national security section.

The FBI interviewed Flynn about the December calls with Kislyak and determined that he wasn't intentionally trying to be deceptive about the nature of what was discussed, according to US officials briefed on the investigation. But investigators have been investigating Flynn's business ties after he left the government and before he joined the Trump administration.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/index.html

Looks like Flynn may be the first traitor to fall.

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## KAL-EL

I don't think what Trump did tonight was on the level of what Nixon did, but it was very Nixonian like for sure.

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## Nilgiri

F-22Raptor said:


> Looks like Flynn may be the first traitor to fall.



Keep dreaming. The first real traitors dug out will probably be those that unmasked Flynn's name and then leaked that to the press (highly illegal....and Comey not posing one question about that to Sally Yates as she testified in the hearing is a real clincher as far as his incompetency is concerned...whether it had intent or not).

There are some real nice pressure points for the Trump administration to work with now....with Comey out of the way.
Susan Rice and McCabe are looking especially juicy....though there's plenty more from where that came from (draining the swamp and all). Susan Rice I am sure you are familiar with already. Here is more on deputy (and now acting) FBI director McCabe:

https://www.grassley.senate.gov/sites/default/files/judiciary/upload/2017-03-28 CEG to FBI (McCabe Conflict in Trump Associates Investigation).pdf

Let's see what political shenanigans that exposes down the road. One thing's clear, the next FBI director has to be a competent, independent non-political leader to purge the political hue (somewhat inevitably) found in the higher echelons and reduce the dissonance with the FBI rank and file.

Its funny why people cry "why now"? regarding Comey....Trump needed and secured his 3rd and final confirmation from Comey that he was not being investigated, and also needed to wait for bipartisan Dep AG Rosenstein (confirmed April 24th - just two weeks ago) to get in to move with the final paperwork (given AG Sessions recused himself from the Russia-investigation)...and also give more time to Comey to provide his own rope for what happened today...without making it seem like some personal retribution after Jan 20th.

Btw the MSM may have made up its mind (just like when they leaked debate questions to Hillary) on the whole Russia-Trump thing, but in reality we are all still waiting for the evidence:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/j...collusion-with-trump-campaign/article/2622452


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## cloud4000

LA se Karachi said:


> At the end of the day, however, Trump is his own worst enemy. He briefly righted the ship with his actions regarding Flynn/Russia, Assad/Syria, and China. But he inevitably reverted to making mistakes again, and will continue to do so, as he has demonstrated thus far.



This looks like something Steve Bannon would advise Trump to do. Nevertheless, the firing of Comey seems out of place. If Trump is trying to derail FBI's investigation into Russia tampering with US elections, this is no way to go about it. In fact, the opposite will happen now, the focus will intensify further. Not even Congress can stand still on this issue. And Trump has few friends in Congress even among the GOP. 

A bad, impulsive move committed by a POTUS who's known to be impulsive.

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## F-22Raptor

Behind Comey's firing: An enraged Trump, fuming about Russia


President Donald Trump weighed firing his FBI director for more than a week. When he finally pulled the trigger Tuesday afternoon, he didn't call James Comey. He sent his longtime private security guard to deliver the termination letter in a manila folder to FBI headquarters.

He had grown enraged by the Russia investigation, two advisers said, frustrated by his inability to control the mushrooming narrative around Russia. He repeatedly asked aides why the Russia investigation wouldn’t disappear and demanded they speak out for him. He would sometimes scream at television clips about the probe, one adviser said.

Trump's firing of the high-profile FBI director on the 110th day since the president took office marked another sudden turn for an administration that has fired its acting attorney general, national security adviser and now its FBI director, whom Trump had praised until recent weeks and had even blew a kiss to during a January appearance.

The news stunned Comey, who saw news of his dismissal on TV while speaking inside the FBI office in Los Angeles. It startled all but the uppermost ring of White House advisers, who said grumbling about Comey hadn't dominated their own morning senior staff meetings. Other top officials learned just before it happened and were unaware Trump was considering firing Comey. "Nobody really knew," one senior White House official said. "Our phones all buzzed and people said, 'What?'"

By ousting the FBI director investigating his campaign and associates, Trump may have added more fuel to the fire he is furiously trying to contain — and he was quickly criticized by a chorus of Republicans and Democrats. "The timing of this firing was very troubling," said Sen. Ben Sasse, a Nebraska Republican.

Trump had grown angry with the Russia investigation — particularly Comey admitting in front of the Senate that the FBI was investigating his campaign — and that the FBI director wouldn't support his claims that President Barack Obama had tapped his phones in Trump Tower.

Bipartisan criticism of Comey had mounted since last summer after the director delivered lengthy statement outlining why no charges would be brought against former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for her use of a private email server.

But the fallout seemed to take the White House by surprise. Trump made a round of calls around 5 p.m., asking for support from senators. White House officials believed it would be a "win-win" because Republicans and Democrats alike have problems with the FBI director, one person briefed on their deliberations said.

Instead, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer told him he was making a big mistake — and Trump seemed "taken aback," according to a person familiar with the call.

By Tuesday evening, the president was watching the coverage of his decision and frustrated no one was on TV defending him, a White House official said. He wanted surrogates out there beating the drum.

Instead, advisers were attacking one anotherr for not realizing the gravity of the situation as events blew up. "How are you not defending your position for three solid hours on TV?" the White House aide asked.

Two White House officials said there was little communications strategy in handling the firing, and that staffers were given talking points late Tuesday for hastily arranged media appearances. Aides soon circulated previous quotes from Schumer hitting Comey. After Schumer called for a special prosecutor, the White House huddled in press secretary Sean Spicer's office to devise a strategy and sent "fresh faces" to TV, one White House official said.

By Tuesday night, aides were using TV appearances to spin the firing as a simple bureaucratic matter and call for an end to the investigation. "It's time to move on," Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the deputy press secretary, said on Fox News.

In his letter dismissing Comey, Trump said the FBI director had given him three private assurances that he wasn't under investigation. The White House declined to say when those conversations happened — or why Comey would volunteer such information. It is not the first time Trump has publicly commented on an ongoing investigation — typically a no-no for presidents. He said earlier this month that Comey had done Clinton a favor by letting her off easy.

Trump received letters from Rod Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, and Jeff Sessions, the attorney general, calling for Comey's dismissal, on Tuesday, a spokesman said. The president then decided to fire the FBI director based on the recommendations and moved quickly. The spokesman said Trump did not ask for the letters in advance, and that White House officials had no idea they were coming.

But several other people familiar with the events said Trump had talked about the firing for more than a week, and the letters were written to give him rationale to fire Comey.

The decision marked a turnabout for Trump. On the campaign trail, the candidate led chants of "Lock her up!" and praised Comey’s “guts” in October for reopening the probe into her email server. He joked openly with Comey at the White House two days after the inauguration.

Trump, as one White House official noted, believed Comey was too soft on Clinton — not too unfair, as Rosenstein’s letter Tuesday indicated.

At FBI headquarters, one senior official said the bureau was essentially in lockdown, not answering calls flooding in and referring all questions to the Justice Department. "I got nothing for you. Sorry," said the official. "We were caught totally off guard. But we are not commenting in any kind of way, and referring calls to DOJ."

Comey had flown on an FBI plane to Los Angeles for a "diversity and recruiting" event. Trump’s director of Oval Office operations, longtime security aide Keith Schiller, hand-delivered the dismissal letter to FBI headquarters.

By Tuesday evening, the shock that had spread throughout the ranks of current and former FBI officials was mixed with a growing sense of anger among the many Comey loyalists, and demands for answers as to why the director had been fired — and why now.

“We just have no idea why this happened. No idea,” said one recently retired top FBI official who worked closely with Comey on many high-profile investigations. “No one knew this was coming. Everyone is just shocked that this happened.”

There was no immediate front-runner for the job, one White House official said. "If there's a list, I haven't seen it," said one senior White House official.

While shock dominated much of the FBI and the White House, the mood was more elated at Roger Stone's house in Florida. Several Stone allies and friends said Stone, who has been frequently mentioned in the investigation, encouraged the president to fire Comey in conversations in recent weeks.

On Twitter, Stone signaled praise for the move by posting an image of Trump from The Apprentice saying, "You're fired."

Stone declined to comment Tuesday night but said he was enjoying a fine cigar.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/10/comey-firing-trump-russia-238192

Further proof we have a mental midget running the show.

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## Nilgiri

cloud4000 said:


> A bad, impulsive move committed by a POTUS who's known to be impulsive.



It was not at Trump's instigation. That came from the bipartisan Rosenstein (Deputy AG) and plenty of bipartisan names have thoroughly criticized Comey acting way past the purview of FBI director. Just read my previous posts here.


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## cloud4000

Nilgiri said:


> It was not at Trump's instigation. That came from the bipartisan Rosenstein (Deputy AG) and plenty of bipartisan names have thoroughly criticized Comey acting way past the purview of FBI director. Just read my previous posts here.



Who instigated it, be it the Deputy AG or Democrats, but it was ultimately Trump's decision. If Trump wanted Comey gone he should have asked for his resignation (not fire) at the start of his presidency, not three months later, in midst of investigating Russian interference in US elections. 

Trump is well within his rights to fire Comey, but the timing was horrible and will have to suffer the consequences for it.

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## F-22Raptor

The acting FBI director in testimony denied that FBI employees lost faith in Comey, and that the Russia-Trump investigation was a "low priority."

The White House story is falling apart at the seams.

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## F-22Raptor

So Trump admits he compromised the independence of this investigation.

Trump is a total train wreck. Is it even possible to go a day without a scandal or controversy under this administration?

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## Nilgiri

cloud4000 said:


> Who instigated it, be it the Deputy AG or Democrats, but it was ultimately Trump's decision.



And the burden would be greater had he not fired Comey with the recommendation from the AG office. That would just give rope to the anti-Trumpers (dumbocrats and RINOs) later when it came to the light (you acted against the D AG AND the AG's recommendations and personally kept Comey on????oooh fishy fishy fishy! coup! coup! coup!)

Dumbocrats would be crying whatever he does, whenever he does it....so he might as well have done it now. Its a better time (not too soon, not too late).



cloud4000 said:


> If Trump wanted Comey gone he should have asked for his resignation (not fire) at the start of his presidency



That would have optically been a lot worse (just like if Comey was fired if Hillary won, though the MSM would be cheering that instead)....i.e immediate retribution with no basis from the AG office.

Like I have said, Trump first ensured/guaranteed from Comey he was not being investigated on 3 seperate occaisions.

AG Sessions recused himself from the Russia investigation, thus he could not act earlier on it.

Thus only when the bipartisan D AG came in (only 2 weeks ago) and practically recommended Comey be dropped....did Trump take the decision.

It also gave enough time for Comey to produce even more rope to hang himself with (i.e continue to dither on several key investigations as Sally Yates testified about recently)....to add to his massive fundamental mistakes he made in 2016 (Esp listing the hillary crimes regarding emailgate, but then producing judgement/recommendation not to prosecute based on intent....which is NEVER a law enforcement directors call)



cloud4000 said:


> in midst of investigating Russian interference in US elections.



These will keep going for quite some time yet. FBI is way bigger than any one person/director. Comey can also be subpoenaed as required.



cloud4000 said:


> Trump is well within his rights to fire Comey, but the timing was horrible and will have to suffer the consequences for it.



Why not wait and see? You will see some pretty interesting "consequences" pretty soon with Swampy Comey out of the way (and removed from his files and computers during the firing, probably for a very important reason). They might even compete with nov 8th on scale of liberal tear production. Just sit back and relax....I do enjoy politicians being genuinely worried and fearful for the first times in their lives, thus kicking up their whining and senility a few octaves higher like Mad Maxine....as their sock puppets the MSM bray in equal fervour.

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## AMDR

After seeing what has happened over the past four months, I'm thoroughly convinced that if American credibility can come out still intact after his term is over, the US can survive anything and do anything. This is the ultimate test of American democracy and American society.

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## LA se Karachi

*






American voters, who gave President Donald Trump a slight approval bump after the missile strike in Syria, today give him a near-record negative 36 - 58 percent job approval rating, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today. Critical are big losses among white voters with no college degree, white men and independent voters. *

Today's job approval rating compares to a negative 40 - 56 percent approval rating in an April 19 survey by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University and a negative 35 - 57 percent score April 4, his lowest approval rating since he became president. 

The president is losing support among independent voters and groups which are important parts of his base. Approval ratings are:

Negative 29 - 63 percent among independent voters, down from a negative 38 - 56 percent April 19;
A split among white voters with no college degree, as 47 percent approve and 46 percent disapprove, compared to a 57 - 38 percent approval April 19;
White men go from a 53 - 41 percent approval April 19 to a split today with 48 percent approving and 46 percent disapproving.
*
American voters' opinions of several of Trump's personal qualities are down: *

61 - 33 percent that he is not honest, compared to 58 - 37 percent April 19;
56 - 41 percent that he does not have good leadership skills, little change;
59 - 38 percent that he does not care about average Americans, compared to 57 - 42 percent April 19;
66 - 29 percent that he is not level-headed, compared to 63 - 33 percent last month;
62 - 35 percent that he is a strong person, little change;
56 - 41 percent that he is intelligent, compared to 58 - 38 percent;
64 - 32 percent that he does not share their values, compared to 61 - 35 percent.
"There is no way to spin or sugarcoat these sagging numbers," said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll. 

"The erosion of white men, white voters without college degrees and independent voters, the declaration by voters that President Donald Trump's first 100 days were mainly a failure and deepening concerns about Trump's honesty, intelligence and level headedness are red flags that the administration simply can't brush away," Malloy added. 


*American voters disapprove 52 - 40 percent of the way Trump is handling the economy. His grades on handling other issues are: *

44 percent approve of the way he is handling U.S. policy toward North Korea and 48 percent disapprove;
Disapprove 59 - 36 percent of the way he is handling foreign policy;
45 percent approve of the way he is handling terrorism and 48 percent disapprove;
Disapprove 62 - 35 percent of the way he is handling immigration.

*Trump and the Media *

American voters disapprove 58 - 37 percent of the way the news media covers Trump. Voters disapprove 65 - 31 percent of the way Trump talks about the media. And voters trust the media more than Trump 57 - 31 percent to tell the truth about important issues. 

Trump's first 100 days in office have been "mainly a failure," 58 percent of voters say, while 38 percent say they have been "mainly a success." 


*By a 54 - 38 percent margin, American voters want the Democratic Party to win control of the U.S. House of Representatives. This is the widest margin ever measured for this question in a Quinnipiac University poll, exceeding a 5 percentage point margin for Republicans in 2013. *

If Democrats had won control of the U.S. Senate in the 2016 elections, the country would be in a better place than it is now, 41 percent of voters say, while 27 percent say it would be in a worse place and 30 percent say it would be the same. 

American voters dislike Democrats less than they dislike Republicans:

Voters disapprove 71 - 22 percent of the way Republicans in Congress do their job;
Voters disapprove 58 - 34 percent of the way Democrats in Congress are doing their job.
_
From May 4 - 9, Quinnipiac University surveyed 1,078 voters nationwide with a margin of error of +/- 3 percentage points. Live interviewers call landlines and cell phones. 

The Quinnipiac University Poll, directed by Douglas Schwartz, Ph.D., conducts public opinion surveys in Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Florida, Ohio, Virginia, Iowa, Colorado and the nation as a public service and for research. 

Visit poll.qu.edu or www.facebook.com/quinnipiacpoll Call (203) 582-5201, or follow us on Twitter @QuinnipiacPoll. 

_




_
https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2456_

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## F-22Raptor

In a series of tweets this morning, Trump threatened Comey and warned he may stop all press briefings. Considering Comey may testify before Congress, Trump just committed witness intimidation. 

Trump is a total lunatic. He's completely lost it.

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## cloud4000

Nilgiri said:


> And the burden would be greater had he not fired Comey with the recommendation from the AG office. That would just give rope to the anti-Trumpers (dumbocrats and RINOs) later when it came to the light (you acted against the D AG AND the AG's recommendations and personally kept Comey on????oooh fishy fishy fishy! coup! coup! coup!)
> 
> Dumbocrats would be crying whatever he does, whenever he does it....so he might as well have done it now. Its a better time (not too soon, not too late).
> 
> 
> 
> That would have optically been a lot worse (just like if Comey was fired if Hillary won, though the MSM would be cheering that instead)....i.e immediate retribution with no basis from the AG office.
> 
> Like I have said, Trump first ensured/guaranteed from Comey he was not being investigated on 3 seperate occaisions.
> 
> AG Sessions recused himself from the Russia investigation, thus he could not act earlier on it.
> 
> Thus only when the bipartisan D AG came in (only 2 weeks ago) and practically recommended Comey be dropped....did Trump take the decision.
> 
> It also gave enough time for Comey to produce even more rope to hang himself with (i.e continue to dither on several key investigations as Sally Yates testified about recently)....to add to his massive fundamental mistakes he made in 2016 (Esp listing the hillary crimes regarding emailgate, but then producing judgement/recommendation not to prosecute based on intent....which is NEVER a law enforcement directors call)
> 
> 
> 
> These will keep going for quite some time yet. FBI is way bigger than any one person/director. Comey can also be subpoenaed as required.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not wait and see? You will see some pretty interesting "consequences" pretty soon with Swampy Comey out of the way (and removed from his files and computers during the firing, probably for a very important reason). They might even compete with nov 8th on scale of liberal tear production. Just sit back and relax....I do enjoy politicians being genuinely worried and fearful for the first times in their lives, thus kicking up their whining and senility a few octaves higher like Mad Maxine....as their sock puppets the MSM bray in equal fervour.



Good post.

Don't care what Democrats say about Comey. Hillary still blames him for her pitiful election, campaign, but many Democrats back him on his investigation of Trump's Russia connection. They will do their own flip-flop when its convenient. Trump had every right to fire Comey, I just think there's a better way to do it.

As for the MSM...nobody cares what they think. They had it in for Trump from day one. They will never give Trump the benefit of the doubt.

No the main issue with Trump seems to be within the GOP, a party he nominally leads. He needs to do some work there.

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## Nilgiri

cloud4000 said:


> Good post.
> 
> Don't care what Democrats say about Comey. Hillary still blames him for her pitiful election, campaign, but many Democrats back him on his investigation of Trump's Russia connection. They will do their own flip-flop when its convenient. Trump had every right to fire Comey, I just think there's a better way to do it.
> 
> As for the MSM...nobody cares what they think. They had it in for Trump from day one. They will never give Trump the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> No the main issue with Trump seems to be within the GOP, a party he nominally leads. He needs to do some work there.



I have a feeling Trump fired him suddenly and when he was on the other side of the country (from his office) for reasons we will probably only fully understand later.

Can only judge fully from hindsight basically. Hence I sit back and watch mostly....rather than get engaged on every issue that pops up almost daily that prompt dem and MSM tears. When its big enough like Comey-firing here, I will offer some comment about certain stark matters that may have been ignored due to the decibel fervour everywhere....esp if unfounded conclusions are reached and presented like fact.

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## LA se Karachi

*Trump's warning to Comey deepens White House crisis

By Jordan Fabian - 05/12/17




*

President Trump added fuel to the fire engulfing his White House on Friday by warning now-fired FBI Director James Comey not to reveal anything about their conversations.

In an early-morning tweetstorm Friday, Trump suggested there might be recordings of his conversations with Comey that could be used to undercut anything the former director might tell the public.

“James Comey better hope that there are no 'tapes' of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!” Trump tweeted. 

The stunning pronouncement gave more ammunition to critics who say Trump fired Comey to thwart his bureau’s investigation into whether Trump associates colluded with Russia in the 2016 election. 

*Later Friday, White House press secretary Sean Spicer repeatedly refused to say whether Trump secretly recorded his conversations with Comey — or has done so with any other White House visitors, including members of Congress and foreign dignitaries.*

“*I’ve talked to the president. The president has nothing further to add on that," Spicer told reporters.

Democrats quickly demanded that Trump turn over any tapes, if they exist.

“For a president who baselessly accused his predecessor of illegally wiretapping him, that Mr. Trump would suggest that he, himself, may have engaged in such conduct is staggering,” said Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee.

“The president should immediately provide any such recordings to Congress or admit, once again, to have made a deliberately misleading — and in this case threatening — statement,” he added.*

The remark deepened the sense of crisis surrounding the White House since Trump’s dismissal of Comey on Tuesday evening. 

His suggestion that he taped conversations with Comey played right into the hands of critics who were already comparing his actions to that of President Richard Nixon during the Watergate scandal.

*Nixon secretly monitored visitors at the White House complex and Camp David using an elaborate recording system, which was ultimately exposed in 1973 and helped lead to his downfall. No president is known to have used such a system since.*

Trump has also vented his frustration with media coverage focusing on the White House’s often-contradictory accounts of how and why he decided to fire the FBI director amid the active Russia investigation. 

The president has rarely been seen at the White House this week, but in his first question-and-answer session about Comey’s firing, he contradicted accounts offered by his press team and Vice President Pence that he acted on the recommendation of Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. 

*Trump told NBC News on Thursday that the decision was his alone and he would have fired Comey “regardless of the recommendation” from Rosenstein. 

The president also suggested that the Russia investigation had played a part in firing Comey, something his aides had vehemently denied. 

“And in fact, when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, ‘You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made up story,’ ” he said.*

“It’s an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should have won. ... This was an excuse for having lost an election.” 

*Those comments, plus another Friday tweet claiming his aides can’t be expected to convey his views with “perfect accuracy,” raised new questions about the credibility of his top spokespeople: Spicer and Sarah Huckabee Sanders.

Clearly frustrated, the president on Friday threatened to scrap the daily White House briefings for reporters. *

Asked by host Jeanine Pirro if he’s moving too fast for his press team, Trump replied, “yes.”

“We don’t have press conferences ... just don’t have them,” the president said. “Unless I have them every two weeks and I do them myself, we don’t have them. I think it’s a good idea.” 

At the same time, he defended Spicer, whose job is said to be in jeopardy. “Well he’s doing a good job but he gets beat up.”

“Again you know they don’t show the 90 questions that they asked and answered properly,” Trump continued. “I’m saying if they’re off just a little bit, just a little bit, it’s the big story.”

*Spicer and Sanders have been tasked with rebutting damaging leaks of Comey’s conversations with Trump, including reports that the president demanded the director’s personal loyalty during a late January dinner.

This week’s events have made their task harder; Sanders conceded Wednesday that at least one discrepancy in the dueling accounts of Comey’s firing happened because she did not speak with the president.*

Trump’s shoot-from-the-hip style has served him well in the past, and especially during the 2016 campaign, when he was able to keep his foes on the defensive. 

But Trump’s unpredictability has at time inflicted damage to his presidency, and is now putting him in dangerous legal waters.

Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), a liberal ethics watchdog, on Friday called on the Justice Department to investigate whether Trump obstructed justice by firing Comey.

*“That tweet shows very, very poor judgment,” said Richard Painter, a former ethics lawyer for former President George W. Bush and CREW board vice chairman. “I don’t think he did anything illegal with the tweet. If he is trying to influence Comey’s possible testimony to Congress, however, then he could get into serious trouble.”*

Comey declined an invitation to appear before the Senate Intelligence Committee next week, but leaders of the panel still hope to bring him in on another date.

*Lauren Ouziel, a Temple University law professor and former federal prosecutor, said not enough facts are known to determine whether obstruction occurred, but that Trump’s firing of Comey combined with his “threat” on Twitter should be enough to pique the interest of investigators.

“There’s enough there that makes it worth looking into, based on what’s been publicly reported,” she said. “It raises a significant question as to whether obstruction took place.”*

Spicer on Friday insisted the tweet was “not a threat.”

“He simply stated a fact. The tweet speaks for itself," he said.

Ouziel said Trump’s conduct with regard to Comey “clearly amounts to an egregious flouting of the constitutional norms of the office of the presidency, and an abuse of the power of that office.”

*Comey hasn’t spoken publicly since his surprise firing Tuesday. But those who know him have told news outlets he’s confident any recording of the conversation would reflect well on him.

“He hopes there are tapes,” one Comey confidant told NBC News. “That would be perfect.”*

_http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...rning-to-comey-deepens-crisis-for-white-house_

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## T-72M1



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## LA se Karachi



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## T-72M1

The Ben Garrison ones are nicer 











Hope Gen. McMaster, the Bushite neocon goes next. Word is they don't have good chemistry and that Trump may "promote" him. 

The world will be a better place when there's true peace between the US and Russia. They really should get together and knock the hell out of the terrorist infestation in the MENA and other places.

What an action packed roller coaster this presidency has been so far, so despite the gloomy neocon lows it touched with the Syrian fireworks show which Putin was warned about beforehand and which left the runway uncratered from where Syrian jets bombed the jihadis the very next day, I still have hope that he'll deliver peace.

go Trump ! 'Murrica's greatest president ! 

I like these little oval office bits they keep putting out, apart from being a political genius par excellence, the man is also a master strategist and media manipulator.






good stuff, Rachel Maddow and the the rest of the MSM are not going to be able to stop this man.


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## LA se Karachi

*Congress exasperated as White House in 'downward spiral'







(CNN)* - Republicans in Congress barely had time to get their footing Monday, as another wild development, this time reports that President Donald Trump had revealed sensitive intelligence to Russia's foreign minister and US ambassador, swept the Capitol.

Senators mulled over the latest stunning news, first reported by The Washington Post, as they met inside the chamber. 

Tennessee Republican Sen. Bob Corker said the wave of negative stories related to Trump and intelligence meant the White House is in a "downward spiral."

"They are in a downward spiral right now and have got to figure out a way to come to grips with all that's happening," Corker told reporters. "You know the shame of it is there's a really good national security team in place, there's good productive things that are underway through them, and through others. But the chaos that is being created by the lack of discipline is creating an environment that I think — it creates a worrisome environment."

Even some of who had been reluctant to criticize Trump said Monday's report raised questions that needed answers.

"We have no way to know what was said, but protecting our nation's secrets is paramount," said Doug Andres, a spokesman for House Speaker Paul Ryan. "The speaker hopes for a full explanation of the facts from the administration."

Republican Susan Collins, a Maine senator, put her party's apparent exasperation more concisely in a light-hearted aside comment to reporters. "Can we have a crisis-free day? That's all I'm asking." 

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican leading one of four congressional probes into Russia's meddling in the US elections, said he was not sure yet if Trump had leaked any intelligence to the Russians -- noting that other stories have been inaccurate. 

But he noted that he had a problem with Trump's tweet Friday, threatening to release possible tapes of conversations with Comey. 

"I think it was inappropriate, I think if there is a tape we need to know about it. I don't think we can dodge that issue. I want to get back to doing the business of the country. North Korea is developing a missile that can hit the American homeland," Graham said. "I want to help the President where I can, but tweets like that take us off in a ditch."

Lawmakers were largely caught off guard by Monday's development. Many Republican lawmakers said they had not seen details about the report and did not want to comment. 

Democratic leaders said that if the report is true, then the President put American lives at risk.

"If the report is true, it is very disturbing," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said in a statement. 

"Revealing classified information at this level is extremely dangerous and puts at risk the lives of Americans and those who gather intelligence for our country."

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi also slammed Trump and called for a briefing.

"Congress must be given a full briefing on the extent of the damage President Trump has done in compromising highly classified code-word intelligence to the Russians," the California Democrat said. 

Asked what senators could do if Trump leaked this information to the Russian officials, Senate Democratic Whip Dick Durbin said, "I wish I knew." 

"This is really concerning that he doesn't understand that certain information you don't share with Russia. You just don't. Share. With. Russia," said Sen. Claire McCaskill, a Missouri Democrat. "Our only chance of keeping this country safe is good intelligence sources. And if he (Trump) thinks classified intelligence information is something you're supposed to brag about to Russia. I mean, this shows a complete lack of information about what classified information is and how important."

Asked if Trump should still have access to sensitive intelligence if he leaks it to Russian officials, McCaskill said: "He's president of the United States. That's the dilemma. He's going to be called upon to make decisions about how we fight our enemies, so you don't want to withhold information from the President of the United States. 
_
This story is developing and will be updated._

_CNN's Manu Raju, Jeremy Herb, Phil Mattingly, Ashley Killough, Betsy Klein, Lauren Fox and Jeff Zeleny contributed to this report. _

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/15/politics/congress-reactions-trump-classified/

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## F-22Raptor

LA se Karachi said:


> *Congress exasperated as White House in 'downward spiral'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (CNN)* - Republicans in Congress barely had time to get their footing Monday, as another wild development, this time reports that President Donald Trump had revealed sensitive intelligence to Russia's foreign minister and US ambassador, swept the Capitol.
> 
> Senators mulled over the latest stunning news, first reported by The Washington Post, as they met inside the chamber.
> 
> Tennessee Republican Sen. Bob Corker said the wave of negative stories related to Trump and intelligence meant the White House is in a "downward spiral."
> 
> "They are in a downward spiral right now and have got to figure out a way to come to grips with all that's happening," Corker told reporters. "You know the shame of it is there's a really good national security team in place, there's good productive things that are underway through them, and through others. But the chaos that is being created by the lack of discipline is creating an environment that I think — it creates a worrisome environment."
> 
> Even some of who had been reluctant to criticize Trump said Monday's report raised questions that needed answers.
> 
> "We have no way to know what was said, but protecting our nation's secrets is paramount," said Doug Andres, a spokesman for House Speaker Paul Ryan. "The speaker hopes for a full explanation of the facts from the administration."
> 
> Republican Susan Collins, a Maine senator, put her party's apparent exasperation more concisely in a light-hearted aside comment to reporters. "Can we have a crisis-free day? That's all I'm asking."
> 
> Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican leading one of four congressional probes into Russia's meddling in the US elections, said he was not sure yet if Trump had leaked any intelligence to the Russians -- noting that other stories have been inaccurate.
> 
> But he noted that he had a problem with Trump's tweet Friday, threatening to release possible tapes of conversations with Comey.
> 
> "I think it was inappropriate, I think if there is a tape we need to know about it. I don't think we can dodge that issue. I want to get back to doing the business of the country. North Korea is developing a missile that can hit the American homeland," Graham said. "I want to help the President where I can, but tweets like that take us off in a ditch."
> 
> Lawmakers were largely caught off guard by Monday's development. Many Republican lawmakers said they had not seen details about the report and did not want to comment.
> 
> Democratic leaders said that if the report is true, then the President put American lives at risk.
> 
> "If the report is true, it is very disturbing," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said in a statement.
> 
> "Revealing classified information at this level is extremely dangerous and puts at risk the lives of Americans and those who gather intelligence for our country."
> 
> House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi also slammed Trump and called for a briefing.
> 
> "Congress must be given a full briefing on the extent of the damage President Trump has done in compromising highly classified code-word intelligence to the Russians," the California Democrat said.
> 
> Asked what senators could do if Trump leaked this information to the Russian officials, Senate Democratic Whip Dick Durbin said, "I wish I knew."
> 
> "This is really concerning that he doesn't understand that certain information you don't share with Russia. You just don't. Share. With. Russia," said Sen. Claire McCaskill, a Missouri Democrat. "Our only chance of keeping this country safe is good intelligence sources. And if he (Trump) thinks classified intelligence information is something you're supposed to brag about to Russia. I mean, this shows a complete lack of information about what classified information is and how important."
> 
> Asked if Trump should still have access to sensitive intelligence if he leaks it to Russian officials, McCaskill said: "He's president of the United States. That's the dilemma. He's going to be called upon to make decisions about how we fight our enemies, so you don't want to withhold information from the President of the United States.
> _
> This story is developing and will be updated._
> 
> _CNN's Manu Raju, Jeremy Herb, Phil Mattingly, Ashley Killough, Betsy Klein, Lauren Fox and Jeff Zeleny contributed to this report. _
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/15/politics/congress-reactions-trump-classified/



Here is yet another Trump disaster worthy of impeachment. Trump and his administrations behavior are just exhausting at this point. At this rate, Trump will go down as the worst President in US history since James Buchanan and his failure to prevent the Civil War.

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## LA se Karachi

F-22Raptor said:


> Trump and his administrations behavior are just exhausting at this point.



Indeed. There's something new every week.



F-22Raptor said:


> At this rate, Trump will go down as the worst President in US history since James Buchanan and his failure to prevent the Civil War.



Well, he still has three and a half years to learn from his mistakes and turn things around. But, like you, I don't see much hope for that. Things just seem to get progressively worse...

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## cloud4000

F-22Raptor said:


> Here is yet another Trump disaster worthy of impeachment. Trump and his administrations behavior are just exhausting at this point. At this rate, Trump will go down as the worst President in US history since James Buchanan and his failure to prevent the Civil War.



I think you are going overboard here. Give the man at least one year before hanging him out to dry. Trump, for all his faults, has yet to reach the level of incompetence achieved by George W. Bush. Trump could be worse, but only time will tell.



LA se Karachi said:


> Well, he still has three and a half years to learn from his mistakes and turn things around. But, like you, I don't see much hope for that. Things just seem to get progressively worse...



Trump moves one step forward than two steps back. He's his own worst enemy. He says and does things that sabotages his presidency. Unless he can change his attitude and behavior, he will be a failure.

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## AMDR

This just keeps on coming, doesn't it?

--------

*Comey Memo Says Trump Asked Him to End Flynn Investigation*

_WASHINGTON — President Trump asked the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, to shut down the federal investigation into Mr. Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, in an Oval Office meeting in February, according to a memo Mr. Comey wrote shortly after the meeting.

“I hope you can let this go,” the president told Mr. Comey, according to the memo.

The documentation of Mr. Trump’s request is the clearest evidence that the president has tried to directly influence the Justice Department and F.B.I. investigation into links between Mr. Trump’s associates and Russia. Late Tuesday, Representative Jason Chaffetz, the Republican chairman of the House Oversight Committee, demanded that the F.B.I. turn over all “memoranda, notes, summaries, and recordings” of discussions between Mr. Trump and Mr. Comey._

The rest of the article at: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/...ey-trump-flynn-russia-investigation.html?_r=0

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## F-22Raptor

AMDR said:


> This just keeps on coming, doesn't it?
> 
> --------
> 
> *Comey Memo Says Trump Asked Him to End Flynn Investigation*
> 
> _WASHINGTON — President Trump asked the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, to shut down the federal investigation into Mr. Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, in an Oval Office meeting in February, according to a memo Mr. Comey wrote shortly after the meeting.
> 
> “I hope you can let this go,” the president told Mr. Comey, according to the memo.
> 
> The documentation of Mr. Trump’s request is the clearest evidence that the president has tried to directly influence the Justice Department and F.B.I. investigation into links between Mr. Trump’s associates and Russia. Late Tuesday, Representative Jason Chaffetz, the Republican chairman of the House Oversight Committee, demanded that the F.B.I. turn over all “memoranda, notes, summaries, and recordings” of discussions between Mr. Trump and Mr. Comey._
> 
> The rest of the article at: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/...ey-trump-flynn-russia-investigation.html?_r=0



If that's not obstruction of justice I don't know what is. Trump is woefully unqualified to be President. If that wasn't clear last year, it certainly is now.

The mistakes made by him almost everyday is incredible. He almost certainly has mental issues.

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## cloud4000

F-22Raptor said:


> If that's not obstruction of justice I don't know what is. Trump is woefully unqualified to be President. If that wasn't clear last year, it certainly is now.
> 
> The mistakes made by him almost everyday is incredible. He almost certainly has mental issues.



His mistakes should not be a surprise given his inexperience in government, but the number of incidents is indeed disturbing. Like I mentioned in a previous post, Trump is his own worst enemy. I think many of his problems would be solved if he stopped tweeting like a teenager.

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## Nilgiri

cloud4000 said:


> His mistakes should not be a surprise given his inexperience in government, but the number of incidents is indeed disturbing. Like I mentioned in a previous post, Trump is his own worst enemy. I think many of his problems would be solved if he stopped tweeting like a teenager.



Nope. He needs to keep doing exactly what he's doing now and see who blinks first.

Its good that he calls the dumbocrats and MSM bluffs whenever he can....so that the public understand the dumbocrats and MSM are going all in here and lose, just like they did in nov 8th....except this time they dont get to fight another day afterwards. This is the aegis they are putting up because they (incl RINOs) are truly scared of how exposed/vulnerable the clinton foundation and the deeper political swamp tentacles are right now. They feel going all in with pre-emptive action right now is the only answer....when they have enough sway with the MSM and anti-trump sentiment among the sheeple....because that is only going to degrade over time. I don't blame them, I would be doing the same thing if I were them. Whether it works out remains to be seen.

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## LA se Karachi



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## F-22Raptor

So we found out today that Trump told Kislyak and Lavrov that Comey was a "nutjob" and that his firing "took great pressure" off of him. Once again, if that's not obstruction of justice I don't know what is.

Then later it's reported that a White House official, thought to be Jared Kushner, is now under investigation.

An now CNN reports that Russian officials were caught bragging that they could use Michael Flynn to influence Trump.

Trump and his administration are a total disaster. Trump absolutely deserves impeachment. I'm embarrassed of their behavior.

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## LA se Karachi

*Nominee for deputy treasury secretary withdraws from consideration*

*TREASURY

Nominee declines deputy secretary job*

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin’s efforts to fill out the top ranks of the department were dealt a setback as a Goldman Sachs banker withdrew from consideration to serve as his deputy.

Jim Donovan cited personal reasons for declining President Trump’s nomination to be deputy treasury secretary.

“At this time I want to focus on my family, and I can no longer accept it,” Donovan said in statement Friday.

The decision could impede Mnuchin’s effort to deliver an ambitious economic agenda that includes a tax overhaul, deregulation of the financial industry and reform of the housing finance system. Mnuchin has been in office since February with most key senior-level Treasury positions unfilled.

Donovan was an “enormous asset” in helping build Mnuchin’s team at the Treasury, Tony Sayegh, the department’s spokesman, said in a statement.

_https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.c8645fe12cf3_

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## RabzonKhan

Pres Trump lost again, SAD! 

Federal appeals court upholds block on his religious discrimination travel ban, yep, that’s what I believe it is.

Trump repeatedly told his supporters during the campaign that he is a great negotiator and a winner. In one of his speeches he said:

_“We’re going to win so much, you’re going to be so sick and tired of winning, you’re going to come to me and go ‘Please, please, we can’t win anymore.’ You’ve heard this one. You’ll say ‘Please, Mr. President, we beg you sir, we don’t want to win anymore. It’s too much. It’s not fair to everybody else. And I’m going to say ‘I’m sorry, but we’re going to keep winning, winning, winning. We’re going to make America great again.”_

Talk about mother of all bragging, isn’t he hilarious. Damn, his supporters must be wondering when the heck will the winning start.


*Appeals court upholds block on Trump's travel ban*
By Ariane de Vogue and Laura Jarrett, CNN
Updated 2:45 PM ET, Thu May 25, 2017

(CNN)A federal appeals court upheld Thursday a ruling blocking President Donald Trump's travel ban against six Muslim-majority countries.

*The 10-3 ruling from the 4th US Circuit Court of Appeals upholds a lower court's decision to halt core portions of the executive order indefinitely.*

The ban was announced in March, but never got off the ground because federal courts blocked it just hours before it was set to go into effect. It would have banned people from Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen from entering the US for 90 days and all refugees for 120 days.

The court makes extensive use of Trump's comments during his campaign when he called for a full ban on Muslims from entering the United States as evidence against this executive order. *Read more*

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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> Pres Trump lost again, SAD!



There is no need to be sad, when Rule of Law wins. No one is above the law in USA, which is a cornerstone of its great foundations. Let us see what the next steps are afforded by Due Process, whatever the end result.

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## Nilgiri

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> There is no need to be sad, when Rule of Law wins. No one is above the law in USA, which is a cornerstone of its great foundations. Let us see what the next steps are afforded by Due Process, whatever the end result.



SCOTUS will have the actual nov 8th moment anyway  Let's see who's happy and sad then.

Circuit court drama (aka judge shopping) is pretty much the equivalent of the pre-election polling. We all know how the final result turned out in the end


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> SCOTUS will have the actual nov 8th moment anyway  Let's see who's happy and sad then.
> 
> Circuit court drama (aka judge shopping) is pretty much the equivalent of the pre-election polling. We all know how the final result turned out in the end



What the Supreme Court decides becomes the law of the land, whether one agrees with it or not, but all citizens win when due process prevails.

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## Nilgiri

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> What the Supreme Court decides becomes the law of the land, whether one agrees with it or not, but all citizens win when due process prevails.



Right, I'm saying the due process is still in process right now, early celebrations by either side (to poke and counter poke) seem kinda silly to me.


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Right, I'm saying the due process is still in process right now, early celebrations by either side (to poke and counter poke) seem kinda silly to me.



I am celebrating the rule of law as due process continues, and not anything else. To me, that alone is priceless.

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## LA se Karachi

*Boehner: Trump’s Term ‘Disaster,’ Aside From Foreign Affairs*
_
by Associated Press_


WASHINGTON — Former House Speaker John Boehner says that aside from international affairs and foreign policy, President Donald Trump's time in office has so far been a "complete disaster."

Speaking at an energy conference Thursday in Houston, Boehner praised Trump for his approach abroad and his aggressiveness in fighting Islamic State militants, according to the energy publication Rigzone.

"Everything else he's done (in office) has been a complete disaster," the Ohio Republican said, according to the publication. "He's still learning how to be president."

Boehner said he's been friends with Trump for 15 years, but still has a hard time envisioning him as president. He also said Trump shouldn't be allowed to Tweet overnight.

David Schnittger, a spokesman for Boehner, confirmed the comments on Friday.

According to Rigzone, Boehner said that the Republican tax reform effort "is just a bunch of happy talk" and that the border adjustment tax — a major priority for Boehner's successor, Speaker Paul Ryan — is "deader than a doornail." He said he was more optimistic about tax reform earlier in the year, but "now my odds are 60/40."

Earlier this year, Boehner said he was pessimistic about another congressional Republican priority — repealing and replacing former President Barack Obama's Affordable Care Act.

Boehner said that while Republicans would fix some problems of Obama's law, repeal and replacement is "not going to happen."

He added, "Republicans never ever agree on health care."

The GOP-led House narrowly passed a bill earlier this month. The Senate has struggled to produce legislation that all in the GOP can back.

On investigations into Russia, Boehner told the Texas forum that "they need to get to the bottom of this" but said Democratic talk of impeachment is the best way to rile up Trump supporters.

Boehner made it clear he's happier now that he's left Capitol Hill.

"I wake up every day, drink my morning coffee and say, 'Hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah,'" he said, according to Rigzone.

And unsurprisingly, Boehner said he doesn't want to be president.

"I drink red wine. I smoke cigarettes. I golf. I cut my own grass. I iron my own clothes. And I'm not willing to give all that up to be president," he said.

_http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/whi...s-term-disaster-aside-foreign-affairs-n765131_

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## LA se Karachi



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## T-72

​


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## RabzonKhan

*JARED KUSHNER AND THE KREMLIN: TRUMP SON-IN-LAW AND ADVISER HAD UNDISCLOSED CONTACTS WITH RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR
*
BY REUTERS ON 5/27/17

U.S. President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and close adviser, Jared Kushner, had at least three previously undisclosed contacts with the Russian ambassador to the United States during and after the 2016 presidential campaign, seven current and former U.S. officials told Reuters.

Those contacts included two phone calls between April and November last year, two of the sources said. *By early this year, Kushner had become a focus of the FBI investigation into whether there was any collusion between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin, said two other sources - one current and one former law enforcement official.*

*Kushner initially had come to the attention of FBI investigators last year as they began scrutinizing former national security adviser Michael Flynn’s connections with Russian officials, the two sources said.*

While the FBI is investigating Kushner’s contacts with Russia, he is not currently a target of that investigation, the current law enforcement official said.

The new information about the two calls as well as other details uncovered by Reuters shed light on when and why Kushner first attracted FBI attention and show that his contacts with Russian envoy Sergei Kislyak were more extensive than the White House has acknowledged.

*Read more: Why Jared Kushner reportedly wanted a secret channel for Trump to talk to Putin*

*NBC News reported on Thursday that Kushner was under scrutiny by the FBI, in the first sign that the investigation, which began last July, has reached the president’s inner circle.*

The FBI declined to comment, while the Russian embassy said it was policy not to comment on individual diplomatic contacts. The White House did not respond to a request for comment.

Kushner's attorney, Jamie Gorelick, said Kushner did not remember any calls with Kislyak between April and November.

"Mr Kushner participated in thousands of calls in this time period. He has no recollection of the calls as described. We have asked (Reuters) for the dates of such alleged calls so we may look into it and respond, but we have not received such information," she said.

*In March, the White House said that Kushner and Flynn had met Kislyak at Trump Tower in December to establish “a line of communication.” Kislyak also attended a Trump campaign speech in Washington in April 2016 that Kushner attended. The White House did not acknowledge any other contacts between Kushner and Russian officials. *

Before the election, Kislyak’s undisclosed discussions with Kushner and Flynn focused on fighting terrorism and improving U.S.-Russian economic relations, six of the sources said. Former President Barack Obama imposed sanctions on Russia after it seized Crimea and started supporting separatists in eastern Ukraine in 2014.

After the November 8 election, Kushner and Flynn also discussed with Kislyak the idea of creating a back channel between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin that could have bypassed diplomats and intelligence agencies, two of the sources said. Reuters was unable to determine how those discussions were conducted or exactly when they took place.

*Reuters was first to report last week that a proposal for a back channel was discussed between Flynn and Kislyak as Trump prepared to take office. The Washington Post was first to report on Friday that Kushner participated in that conversation.*

*Separately, there were at least 18 undisclosed calls and emails between Trump associates and Kremlin-linked people in the seven months before the November. 8 presidential election, including six calls with Kislyak, sources told Reuters earlier this month. *Two people familiar with those 18 contacts said Flynn and Kushner were among the Trump associates who spoke to the ambassador by telephone. Reuters previously reported only Flynn’s involvement in those discussions. *Read more*




Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> There is no need to be sad, when Rule of Law wins. No one is above the law in USA, which is a cornerstone of its great foundations. Let us see what the next steps are afforded by Due Process, whatever the end result.


Maybe you didn’t catch the sarcasm, the word, SAD is one of Trump’s favorites, he often ends his tweets with it. I don’t know about you, but as a liberal, I celebrate every defeat he suffers.



LA se Karachi said:


>


How disgraceful, he was caught on camera literally shoving the PM of Montenegro so he could be at the front of their photo. What have we elected?!

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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> What have we elected?!



An Orange Twit-in-Chief, obviously.

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## Gomig-21

F-22Raptor said:


> Here is yet another Trump disaster worthy of impeachment. Trump and his administrations behavior are just exhausting at this point. At this rate, Trump will go down as the worst President in US history since James Buchanan and his failure to prevent the Civil War.



You mean "Andrew Jackson?"  That one was a beauty! It really highlighted this guy's ignorance among other undesirable attributes.



F-22Raptor said:


> So we found out today that Trump told Kislyak and Lavrov that Comey was a "nutjob" and that his firing "took great pressure" off of him. Once again, if that's not obstruction of justice I don't know what is.
> 
> Then later it's reported that a White House official, thought to be Jared Kushner, is now under investigation.
> 
> An now CNN reports that Russian officials were caught bragging that they could use Michael Flynn to influence Trump.
> 
> Trump and his administration are a total disaster. Trump absolutely deserves impeachment. I'm embarrassed of their behavior.



It seems every day there's a bombshell coming out of this joke of a group of self entitled wealthielites. If nothing else, it's entertaining us.

It will be fascinating to watch Comey testify before the Senate Intel Committee and see if the former head of the FBI exacts revenge on Trump by laying out any additional memos that we haven't been privy to through the media. I do think, though, that there won't be enough to initiate a process of impeachment based on written memos, even if they come from a credible individual such a James Comey. It's hearsay and he said/he said which doesn't hold enough weight for burden of proof. Now if there are secret tapes that recorded the conversation, that would be a totally different story.

With all the Russian hacking and even if there was collusion, as long as it wasn't directly with Trump and there is no solid evidence that he ordered any of that, it will be tough to impeach him. But Kushner and the likes can all be brought down as scapegoats. If they temporarily revoked Kusher's security clearance until they figure out why he didn't list them on his application and to what extent is he involved in this mess, it makes you wonder why does Ivanca still have hers, never mind why she even was issued any level of SC in the first place!?

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## Destrius

The trump presidency is a sinking ship. The republicans in congress should just impeach him quickly and spend the next couple years doing damage control so they won't lose too badly in the midterms and 2020 elections.

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


>


The video clip is fake, *Link* 
but overall a good post.

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> The video clip is fake, *Link*
> but overall a good post.



Of course it was fake, just funny as heck.

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## Destrius

Funny how the Republicans complained about nothing getting done during the Obama years. They now control the presidency, congress, and supreme court. I wonder what exactly meaningful accomplishments they have done over these past 5 months.

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## T-72

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/05/hillary-clinton-life-after-election.html


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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> *“We’re going to win so much, you’re going to be so sick and tired of winning, you’re going to come to me and go ‘Please, please, we can’t win anymore.’ You’ve heard this one. You’ll say ‘Please, Mr. President, we beg you sir, we don’t want to win anymore. It’s too much. It’s not fair to everybody else. And I’m going to say ‘I’m sorry, but we’re going to keep winning, winning, winning. We’re going to make America great again.”*




But don't you see, my friend, he was exactly right. 

America is winning, the Democratic Party is winning, and the rule of law is winning. Trump _is_ going to make America (and the Democratic Party) great again---at his own expense.

The Democratic Party is changing for the better, and is finally getting the message to focus on economic issues (not divisive social issues). Recruitment and enthusiasm in the party are the highest they've been since 2008. Bernie-crats are taking the party back to its roots (to one for the middle and working classes) and winning positions in state parties across the country.

Democrats are doing startlingly well in special elections in Republican and Trump-won districts (and winning many of them). Their lead on the congressional ballot is the highest ever recorded in some polls. Russia's evil intentions are being exposed. Obamacare is more popular than ever before too. Trump's nativist/xenophobic bullying style and tone have received significant push-back from the general public. Not just from Democrats, but from most moderates, independents, and some Republicans too. His approval rating has never been positive---not once.

I hope you understand why some us advocated not voting for Hillary Clinton last year. The truth is that a President Clinton was a far worse outcome for the Democratic Party (and America) long-term than a President Trump. Yes Trump is terrible, but the damage he's doing to right-wing politicians that think and act like him is invaluable. Plus, the comedy and late-night talk shows are funnier than they've been in years. They have so much material to work with these days. 

I don't know about you, but I've been having a blast since November 8th.

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> *JARED KUSHNER AND THE KREMLIN: TRUMP SON-IN-LAW AND ADVISER HAD UNDISCLOSED CONTACTS WITH RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR
> *
> BY REUTERS ON 5/27/17
> 
> U.S. President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and close adviser, Jared Kushner, had at least three previously undisclosed contacts with the Russian ambassador to the United States during and after the 2016 presidential campaign, seven current and former U.S. officials told Reuters.
> 
> Those contacts included two phone calls between April and November last year, two of the sources said. *By early this year, Kushner had become a focus of the FBI investigation into whether there was any collusion between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin, said two other sources - one current and one former law enforcement official.*
> 
> *Kushner initially had come to the attention of FBI investigators last year as they began scrutinizing former national security adviser Michael Flynn’s connections with Russian officials, the two sources said.*
> 
> While the FBI is investigating Kushner’s contacts with Russia, he is not currently a target of that investigation, the current law enforcement official said.
> 
> The new information about the two calls as well as other details uncovered by Reuters shed light on when and why Kushner first attracted FBI attention and show that his contacts with Russian envoy Sergei Kislyak were more extensive than the White House has acknowledged.
> 
> *Read more: Why Jared Kushner reportedly wanted a secret channel for Trump to talk to Putin*
> 
> *NBC News reported on Thursday that Kushner was under scrutiny by the FBI, in the first sign that the investigation, which began last July, has reached the president’s inner circle.*
> 
> The FBI declined to comment, while the Russian embassy said it was policy not to comment on individual diplomatic contacts. The White House did not respond to a request for comment.
> 
> Kushner's attorney, Jamie Gorelick, said Kushner did not remember any calls with Kislyak between April and November.
> 
> "Mr Kushner participated in thousands of calls in this time period. He has no recollection of the calls as described. We have asked (Reuters) for the dates of such alleged calls so we may look into it and respond, but we have not received such information," she said.
> 
> *In March, the White House said that Kushner and Flynn had met Kislyak at Trump Tower in December to establish “a line of communication.” Kislyak also attended a Trump campaign speech in Washington in April 2016 that Kushner attended. The White House did not acknowledge any other contacts between Kushner and Russian officials. *
> 
> Before the election, Kislyak’s undisclosed discussions with Kushner and Flynn focused on fighting terrorism and improving U.S.-Russian economic relations, six of the sources said. Former President Barack Obama imposed sanctions on Russia after it seized Crimea and started supporting separatists in eastern Ukraine in 2014.
> 
> After the November 8 election, Kushner and Flynn also discussed with Kislyak the idea of creating a back channel between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin that could have bypassed diplomats and intelligence agencies, two of the sources said. Reuters was unable to determine how those discussions were conducted or exactly when they took place.
> 
> *Reuters was first to report last week that a proposal for a back channel was discussed between Flynn and Kislyak as Trump prepared to take office. The Washington Post was first to report on Friday that Kushner participated in that conversation.*
> 
> *Separately, there were at least 18 undisclosed calls and emails between Trump associates and Kremlin-linked people in the seven months before the November. 8 presidential election, including six calls with Kislyak, sources told Reuters earlier this month. *Two people familiar with those 18 contacts said Flynn and Kushner were among the Trump associates who spoke to the ambassador by telephone. Reuters previously reported only Flynn’s involvement in those discussions. *Read more*
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you didn’t catch the sarcasm, the word, SAD is one of Trump’s favorites, he often ends his tweets with it. I don’t know about you, but as a liberal, I celebrate every defeat he suffers.
> 
> 
> How disgraceful, he was caught on camera literally shoving the PM of Montenegro so he could be at the front of their photo. What have we elected?!



Not even Jared Kushner -- the sanest member of the Trump family -- is tainted by an alleged Russian connection. It could be nothing, or it may be something, but the optics are just horrible.



LA se Karachi said:


> But don't you see, my friend, he was exactly right.
> 
> America is winning, the Democratic Party is winning, and the rule of law is winning. Trump _is_ going to make America (and the Democratic Party) great again---at his own expense.
> 
> The Democratic Party is changing for the better, and is finally getting the message to focus on economic issues (not divisive social issues). Recruitment and enthusiasm in the party are the highest they've been since 2008. Bernie-crats are taking the party back to its roots (to one for the middle and working classes) and winning positions in state parties across the country.
> 
> Democrats are doing startlingly well in special elections in Republican and Trump-won districts (and winning many of them). Their lead on the congressional ballot is the highest ever recorded in some polls. Russia's evil intentions are being exposed. Obamacare is more popular than ever before too. Trump's nativist/xenophobic bullying style and tone have received significant push-back from the general public. Not just from Democrats, but from most moderates, independents, and some Republicans too. His approval rating has never been positive---not once.
> 
> I hope you understand why some us advocated not voting for Hillary Clinton last year. The truth is that a President Clinton was a far worse outcome for the Democratic Party (and America) long-term than a President Trump. Yes Trump is terrible, but the damage he's doing to right-wing politicians that think and act like him is invaluable. Plus, the comedy and late-night talk shows are funnier than they've been in years. They have so much material to work with these days.
> 
> I don't know about you, but I've been having a blast since November 8th.



No doubt Democrats will benefit from Trump's missteps, but what are Democrats actually offering beside being anti-Trump? Where are their plans besides the same old, same old?


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## T-72




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## Nilgiri

Watch it to the end


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## Gomig-21

Should get even more interesting in the next few weeks with Comey testifying about his meeting with Trump.

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## LA se Karachi



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## Nilgiri

LA se Karachi said:


> View attachment 400510
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This one was the best, kudos to the creator haha:

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## LA se Karachi

Nilgiri said:


> This one was the best, kudos to the creator haha:




I agree.

She doesn't seem to be taking much responsibility for her performance in the election.

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## CBU-105

*Trump announces US withdrawal from Paris climate deal*






https://www.theguardian.com/environ...onald-trump-paris-climate-agreement-live-news
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4563932/Trump-announces-U-S-Paris-climate-accord.html

mashallah, big league !

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## LA se Karachi

*Ex-DNC aide hits back hard at Clinton, says her campaign ignored data on Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin*

By Aaron Blake



Hillary Clinton has found plenty of non-Hillary Clinton things to blame for her 2016 loss, including Russia, James B. Comey, debate moderators and misogyny. But her decision Wednesday to add the Democratic National Committee to that list is predictably proving pretty sensitive inside her own party.

A top former DNC aide tweeted overnight that Clinton's allegations were “f‑‑‑ing bulls‑‑‑” and even suggested that the Clinton campaign ignored its warnings about how competitive Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin were. Those three states proved decisive for President Trump and, especially in the case of Michigan and Wisconsin, were neglected by the Clinton campaign.

In a Wednesday appearance at Recode's Code Conference in California, Clinton pointed to the DNC's data deficit when she became the Democratic nominee.

“I set up my campaign and we have our own data operation. I get the nomination. So I’m now the nominee of the Democratic Party. I inherit nothing from the Democratic Party,” Clinton said, according to a transcript. “I mean it was bankrupt, it was on the verge of insolvency, its data was mediocre to poor, nonexistent, wrong. I had to inject money into it — the DNC — to keep it going.”

Andrew Therriault, who served as the DNC's director of data science and now works for the City of Boston, took exception to Clinton's criticisms in tweets that have since been deleted.

A top former DNC aide tweeted overnight that Clinton's allegations were “f‑‑‑ing bulls‑‑‑” and even suggested that the Clinton campaign ignored its warnings about how competitive Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin were. Those three states proved decisive for President Trump and, especially in the case of Michigan and Wisconsin, were neglected by the Clinton campaign.

In a Wednesday appearance at Recode's Code Conference in California, Clinton pointed to the DNC's data deficit when she became the Democratic nominee.

“I set up my campaign and we have our own data operation. I get the nomination. So I’m now the nominee of the Democratic Party. I inherit nothing from the Democratic Party,” Clinton said, according to a transcript. “I mean it was bankrupt, it was on the verge of insolvency, its data was mediocre to poor, nonexistent, wrong. I had to inject money into it — the DNC — to keep it going.”

Andrew Therriault, who served as the DNC's director of data science and now works for the City of Boston, took exception to Clinton's criticisms in tweets that have since been deleted.






Another Therriault tweet captured by the Tax Foundation's Alan Cole and another Twitter user pointed to the Clinton campaign ignoring DNC warnings about Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Therriault said the DNC data never had those states as “even close to safe,” but the Clinton team “thought they knew better.”






It's important to note here that Therriault left the DNC midway through 2016, so he's not necessarily privy to late DNC data in those states. But he seems to be saying that the DNC saw early in the general election what the Clinton campaign failed to really ever see. Clinton never made a concerted effort in Michigan or Wisconsin, and these two states and Pennsylvania proved the difference after they each went by less than a point for Trump.

And his broader criticism that Clinton's complaints don't add up was echoed by other top Democratic data types, including Tom Bonier:






And here's John Hagner, a former aide to the DNC and Democrats' House and Senate campaign committees:






Clinton's rehashing of the 2016 election results and the reasons she lost that were outside her control have become a regular feature of her public appearances and apparently will account for a significant portion of her forthcoming book. But there is also an emerging divide inside the Democratic Party about whether her continued presence on the national political stage is helping her party move forward.

Witness this from the New Republic from last week. And here's Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel's tortured response this weekend when asked if Clinton running for president again would be good for the party.






Whatever you think about Clinton's excuses for her loss and how credible they are, it's clear this whole thing is threatening to expose some real rifts within a Democratic Party that is also eager to move forward. And now that Clinton is casting blame upon her own national party for her loss, that's only going to exacerbate things.

_https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ennsylvania-wisconsin/?utm_term=.82be8dfaf062_

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## CBU-105

another ominous Frontline documentary 






that almost mirrors Bannon's own documentaries in style, theme and delivery lol 

@LA se Karachi

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## LA se Karachi

CBU-105 said:


> another ominous Frontline documentary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that almost mirrors Bannon's own documentaries in style, theme and delivery lol
> 
> @LA se Karachi




Well, like I said, that's just Frontline's style. They produce every documentary like that. 

However, even if you feel that Frontline's approach to the Trump documentary was a bit unfair, I think it's very fair in Bannon's case. Steve Bannon is a very ominous figure.

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## CBU-105

LA se Karachi said:


> Well, like I said, that's just Frontline's style. They produce every documentary like that.
> 
> However, even if you feel that Frontline's approach to the Trump documentary was a bit unfair, I think it's very fair in Bannon's case. Steve Bannon is a very ominous figure.


I saw 'generation zero', and if that's anything to go by, he does have a gloomy worldview. Apparently the rest of them are just like that too. 

I don't think he's that scary, just another right wing ideologue with a nativist bent, and Trump will put him in his place if he feels the need to, though he is likely to keep him around for doing his magic in the rust belt for his 2020 rerun.

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## faithfulguy

CBU-105 said:


> another ominous Frontline documentary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that almost mirrors Bannon's own documentaries in style, theme and delivery lol
> 
> @LA se Karachi



Watched the whole thing. Bannon is Trump's alter ego. He is not going anywhere.

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## RabzonKhan

Oh, he’s so good in knocking himself down. 






*Trump’s latest tweets will likely hurt effort to restore travel ban*

By Matt Zapotosky June 5

President Trump on Monday derided the revised travel ban as a “watered down” version of the first and criticized his own Justice Department’s handling of the case — potentially hurting the administration’s defense of the ban as the legal battle over it reaches a critical new stage.

Trump in a tweet called the new ban “politically correct,” ignoring that he himself signed the executive order replacing the first ban with a revised version that targeted only six, rather than seven, Muslim-majority countries and blocked the issuance of new visas, rather than revoking current ones.

*Trump said the Justice Department should seek a “much tougher version” and made clear — despite his own press secretary’s past remarks to the contrary — that the executive order is a “ban,” not a pause on some sources of immigration or an enhanced vetting system.*

*“People, the lawyers and the courts can call it whatever they want, but I am calling it what we need and what it is, a TRAVEL BAN!” Trump wrote.*

The president’s tweets could significantly damage his administration’s effort to restore the ban, which has been put on hold by two federal courts.

Next week, those suing are expected to file arguments on the matter with the Supreme Court, and Trump’s latest remarks will surely be a part of their briefs. The administration appealed to the nation’s highest court after the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit upheld the freeze on the ban last month.

*Neal Katyal, the lawyer who argued for the challengers in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, wrote on Twitter, “Its kinda odd to have the defendant in Hawaii v Trump acting as our co-counsel. We don’t need the help but will take it!” He also wrote that he was “waiting now for the inevitable cover-my-tweet posts from him that the Solicitor General will no doubt insist upon.”*

Even George Conway, a prominent lawyer who recently took himself out of the running to lead the Justice Department’s Civil Division and the husband of top Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway, posted on Twitter that the remarks might hurt the legal case.

“These tweets may make some ppl feel better, but they certainly won’t help OSG get 5 votes in SCOTUS, which is what actually matters. Sad,” he wrote, using abbeviations for Office of Solicitor General and the Supreme Court. *Read more*






LA se Karachi said:


> But don't you see, my friend, he was exactly right.
> 
> America is winning, the Democratic Party is winning, and the rule of law is winning. Trump _is_ going to make America (and the Democratic Party) great again---at his own expense.
> 
> The Democratic Party is changing for the better, and is finally getting the message to focus on economic issues (not divisive social issues). Recruitment and enthusiasm in the party are the highest they've been since 2008. Bernie-crats are taking the party back to its roots (to one for the middle and working classes) and winning positions in state parties across the country.
> 
> Democrats are doing startlingly well in special elections in Republican and Trump-won districts (and winning many of them). Their lead on the congressional ballot is the highest ever recorded in some polls. Russia's evil intentions are being exposed. Obamacare is more popular than ever before too. Trump's nativist/xenophobic bullying style and tone have received significant push-back from the general public. Not just from Democrats, but from most moderates, independents, and some Republicans too. His approval rating has never been positive---not once.
> 
> I hope you understand why some us advocated not voting for Hillary Clinton last year. The truth is that a President Clinton was a far worse outcome for the Democratic Party (and America) long-term than a President Trump. Yes Trump is terrible, but the damage he's doing to right-wing politicians that think and act like him is invaluable. Plus, the comedy and late-night talk shows are funnier than they've been in years. They have so much material to work with these days.
> 
> I don't know about you, but I've been having a blast since November 8th.


I don’t want to dampen your enthusiasm, my friend, but I cannot be happy as long as Trump is in the White House. Though I’m happy for your party, Democrats have won some districts that voted for Trump, but I think the real test will be 2018 elections and I hope Democrats can retake the House, and sure that would be a great victory.

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## RabzonKhan

It seems even pro-Trump Fox News is getting fed up with his erratic behavior. I’m loving it!

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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> It seems even pro-Trump Fox News is getting fed up with his erratic behavior. I’m loving it!



Only really matters if its Tucker or Hannity.

Shep and Cavuto are RINO types....trying to "balance" fox. Go further and you will stumble into Juan and Bob (but Bob got fired lol).


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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> It seems even pro-Trump Fox News is getting fed up with his erratic behavior. I’m loving it!



It's all about self-preservation. Trump's erratic behavior is making it hard for even the right-wing media to defend him.

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## Nilgiri

cloud4000 said:


> It's all about self-preservation. Trump's erratic behavior is making it hard for even the right-wing media to defend him.



Seriously shep is right wing? LOL.

Fox is overall centrish because of such characters. Everything else is varying shades of left wing paranoia and butthurt


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> It seems even pro-Trump Fox News is getting fed up with his erratic behavior. I’m loving it!



Should be one heck of a day tomorrow, only rivaled by Bill Clinton's impeachment process. Jim Comey will drop the sledge hammer and his testimony will be very powerful since he has much more credibility, unlike the commander in chief. So the validity of the information on his memos will outweigh any denial from the POTUS.

This White House has been a comedy of incompetence, disguised in nefariousness. At least show a semblance of professionalism behind all these sneaky acts, maybe some cohesion with your staff even if your position is that of a delusional, right wing hack. But he's such a control freak and not having any idea how to embrace the position of the most powerful man in the world, he should at least solicit some form of advice from someone who could teach him, so he can show some sense of integrity, much less delegate his authority without creating even a small sense of ambiguity as to his incompetence. But he's chosen this arrogant way that frankly makes him look the opposite of that 'tough guy' persona he tries to portray all the time. It's like handing the position of CEO of a multi billion $ investment bank to a minor league baseball bat boy. It's a comedy of embarrassment we witness on almost a daily basis.

Despite the weight of Comey's testimony tomorrow, I doubt any impeachment process will take place, but it will be fascinating to watch these events unfold, and the ensuing Russia investigations.

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## CBU-105

@flamer84


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## LA se Karachi

*Trump approval rating hits new low in Quinnipiac poll*

By  Madeline Conway 






_President Donald Trump’s previous low in the Quinnipiac survey was a 35 percent positive and 57 percent negative rating, registered on April 4._

​President Donald Trump’s approval rating hit another low in Quinnipiac University’s poll, which found this week that 34 percent of voters approve of his job performance and 57 percent disapprove.

Trump’s previous low in the Quinnipiac survey was a 35 percent positive and 57 percent negative rating, registered on April 4.

The university’s most recent poll, released Wednesday and conducted from May 31 to June 6, also found that a large majority of respondents — 68 percent — believe that the president is “not level-headed” (29 percent say he is). Even among members of his own party, this holds true: 64 percent of Republicans say Trump is not level-headed, while 32 percent think he is.

Majorities of respondents similarly told Quinnipiac that Trump is not honest; does not have good leadership skills; does not care about average Americans; and does not share their values. Sixty-two percent described him as a strong person and 57 percent said he is intelligent.

Ahead of the highly anticipated testimony of James Comey, the former FBI director Trump fired, the survey also found that most voters are skeptical of the president’s relationship with Russia.

Thirty-one percent of respondents said they believe that Trump did something illegal with Russia, 29 percent think he is guilty of unethical but not illegal behavior, and 32 percent said he did not do anything wrong. A bit more, 40 percent, think advisers on the Trump campaign did something illegal with Russia.

The poll found that 54 percent of voters believe that Trump is too friendly with the Kremlin, which the U.S. intelligence community says carried out cyberattacks targeting Democrats during the presidential campaign last year in an attempt to help Trump’s standing in the race.

The White House has repeatedly denied that Trump or his associates colluded with Russian hackers, a question that is the subject of ongoing federal investigation. Comey was overseeing the FBI’s investigation into the matter until Trump fired him.

Seventy-three percent of respondents said they approve of Robert Mueller being named special counsel to oversee the Russia investigation, while 15 percent disapprove.

On policy, the Quinnipiac survey found that most voters disapprove of Trump’s decision to exit the Paris Climate Agreement, an international pact to combat climate change and decrease carbon emissions. Sixty-two percent of voters surveyed said they disapprove of the decision, while 32 percent approve, though 72 percent of Republicans agree with the president.
_
The poll had a sample size of 1,361 and a margin of error of 3.2 percent._

_http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/07/trump-approval-rating-quinnipiac-poll-239250_

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## Gomig-21

Blockbuster testimony on Thursday.

Based on everything that's taken place so far, who out of these two does anyone suppose has A LOT more credibility than the other, specifically with regards to telling the truth and not lying? 






Putting aside the "feud" between these two and any potential obstruction of justice, but rather focusing on the undeniable Russian interference in the 2016 elections -- since the former FBI director says there was interference without question -- and more importantly if there is confirmation that the interfering is traced and sourced to the Kremlin, what then becomes the determination of an 'act of war?" Putin's silly comment that the hacking could've come from any source outside and without the consent or knowledge of the Kremlin is laughable, at the least. I think that is the scariest part of this whole debacle. 

If the US interfered with Russian "elections," would they consider that an act of war? How bad does any intrusion have to be before there is such a consideration?

When Gary Powers was shot down in this U-2 spyplane close to the height of the cold war, there wasn't any declaration of war so how bad would this be? Meddling in another superpower's election process is serious business. 

Russian Su-30s intercepting US B-52's and B-1B's over the Baltic Sea just a few days ago. Not something you see very often. As a matter of fact, it's mostly the opposite with Bears getting picked up by F-22's and Canadians F-18s in the Pacific.

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## CBU-105

crooked Hillary would have fired him on day 1.



Gomig-21 said:


> Putting aside the "feud" between these two and any potential obstruction of justice, but rather focusing on the undeniable Russian interference in the 2016 elections -- since the former FBI director says there was interference without question -- and more importantly if there is confirmation that the interfering is traced and sourced to the Kremlin, what then becomes the determination of an 'act of war?" Putin's silly comment that the hacking could've come from any source outside and without the consent or knowledge of the Kremlin is laughable, at the least. I think that is the scariest part of this whole debacle.


crooked Hillary also promised a military response to cyber attacks.

How do you define a cyber attack anyway, hacking voting machines, an electricity grid or air traffic control or other such, sure.. a state sanctioned sustained online propaganda campaign, which is about as far as they went.. act of war ?

and wikileaks has been at it for years now, Assange has been a real champion exposing evil and corruption around the world for a long time.

she lost because of who she is, even people on her side have had enough:

*But we can’t stay friendly to Hillary forever. There’s a fine line—or maybe not even so fine a line—between boosting morale and monopolizing the spotlight. One reason Bill Clinton was able to make a name for himself decades ago was that previous candidates had the grace to get out of the way. Jimmy Carter and Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis weren’t trying to place themselves at center stage during the campaign of 1992. The Clintons, by contrast, kept sticking around. When it comes to power, and a few other things, they can’t control their urges. As a friend of mine recently wrote to me in an e-mail, “They both had to be president?”

Even the name of Clinton’s PAC has a presumptuous ring to it..
*
read the rest here.

Besides, there were Mexico based political advocacy groups going door to door campaigning for Hillary on immigration issues. Would Mexico have been held responsible for interfering and putting Hillary in the white house had she won ?

With the collusion thing basically dead, hope he moves forward and makes a deal with Putin on Syria.



Gomig-21 said:


> Russian Su-30s intercepting US B-52's and B-1B's over the Baltic Sea just a few days ago. Not something you see very often. As a matter of fact, it's mostly the opposite with Bears getting picked up by F-22's and Canadians F-18s in the Pacific.


probably a routine interception around Kaliningrad.


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## RabzonKhan

Holy cow, Trump speaking Hindi.

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## RabzonKhan

This is the most corrupt and controversial government the US has ever had.






*D.C. and Maryland sue President Trump, alleging breach of constitutional oath*

By Aaron C. Davis June 12

Attorneys general for the District of Columbia and the state of Maryland sued President Trump on Monday, alleging that he has violated anti-corruption clauses in the Constitution by accepting millions in payments and benefits from foreign governments since moving into the White House.

The lawsuit, the first of its kind brought by government entities, centers on the fact that Trump chose to retain ownership of his company when he became president. Trump said in January that he was shifting his business assets into a trust managed by his sons to eliminate potential conflicts of interests.

But D.C. Attorney General Karl A. Racine (D) and Maryland Attorney General Brian E. Frosh (D) say Trump has broken many promises to keep separate his public duties and private business interests. For one, his son Eric Trump has said the president would continue to receive regular updates about his company’s financial health.

The lawsuit, a signed copy of which Racine and Frosh provided to The Washington Post on Sunday night, alleges “unprecedented constitutional violations” by Trump. The suit says Trump’s continued ownership of a global business empire has rendered the president “deeply enmeshed with a legion of foreign and domestic government actors” and has undermined the integrity of the U.S. political system.

“Fundamental to a President’s fidelity to [faithfully execute his oath of office] is the Constitution’s demand that the President ... disentangle his private finances from those of domestic and foreign powers. Never before has a President acted with such disregard for this constitutional prescription.”

The suit could open a new front for Trump as he navigates investigations by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III and congressional committees of possible collusion between his associates and the Russian government during the 2016 presidential campaign.

If a federal judge allows the case to proceed, Racine and Frosh say, one of the first steps will be to demand through the discovery process copies of Trump’s personal tax returns to gauge the extent of his foreign business dealings. That fight would most likely end up before the Supreme Court, the two said, with Trump’s attorneys having to defend why the returns should remain private.

“This case is, at its core, about the right of Marylanders, residents of the District of Columbia and all Americans to have honest government,” Frosh said. To fully know the extent of Trump’s constitutional violations “we’ll need to see his financial records, his taxes that he has refused to release.”

Racine said he felt obligated to sue Trump in part because the Republican-controlled Congress has not taken the president’s apparent conflicts seriously.

“We’re getting in here to be the check and balance that it appears Congress is unwilling to be,” he said.

The constitutional question D.C. and Maryland will put before a federal judge is whether Trump’s business holdings amount to violations of parts of the Constitution known as the foreign and domestic emoluments clauses.

To guard against foreign countries gaining sway over the new republic’s ambassadors in the late 1700s, drafters of the Constitution prohibited any “Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust” from accepting “any present, Emolument, Office or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.” *Read more*

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> This is the most corrupt and controversial government the US has ever had.



It's unbelievable what is happening on a daily basis. Sessions will be drilled tomorrow. Then add all the things that are coming up one after the other and they make you think how much longer can this guy and his posse survive all these calamities? One bombshell after the other on an almost daily basis. I hope things stabilize before he brings this country down with him.

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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> Holy cow, Trump speaking Hindi.




LOL!

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## RabzonKhan

Lol, Trump lost again, every time he loses it reminds me of his bragging, how he was going to "win, win, win." 





I salute the judges they are true heroes they are defending the Constitution and American values.

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## RabzonKhan

Yesterday Trump held his first bizarre Cabinet meeting. Normally one sees this kind of stuff happening in countries like North Korea, it was beyond ridiculous. First, Trump started by praising himself, (no surprise there) “never has there been a president, with few exceptions, who has passed more legislation, done more things, (but the fact is, Congress has not passed any MAJOR legislative bills) and more blah blah blah, but then the things got more bizarre when his Cabinet appointees one by one started praising him, damn, I almost fell from my chair.

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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> Yesterday Trump held his first bizarre Cabinet meeting. Normally one sees this kind of stuff happening in countries like North Korea, it was beyond ridiculous. First, Trump started by praising himself, (no surprise there) “never has there been a president, with few exceptions, who has passed more legislation, done more things, (but the fact is, Congress has not passed any MAJOR legislative bills) and more blah blah blah, but then the things got more bizarre when his Cabinet appointees one by one started praising him, damn, I almost fell from my chair.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 403631
> 
> 
> View attachment 403632

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## Submariner

I voted on Tuesday in the Virginia Democratic Primary, 2017 for Ralph Northam. Come November 7, 2017 I will be joining other Virginians in keeping Virginia a Blue state by electing Northam as our governor.






For the first time in a long time more Democrats turned out for the Primary then did Republicans - 550,000 voters to 350,000 - echoing shifting demographics in Northern Virginia and general displeasure with Washington right now. Virginia's opinion of the Trump Administration is the lowest in the country.

The Republican Primary Candidates split the vote between a moderate and a Trumpist. The Trumpist candidate has said he will not support his opponent and victor in the Republican Primary in the Gubernatorial come November 7, 2017. Interesting times for the Republican party post-Trump election.



LA se Karachi said:


> View attachment 403644



This. This is the biggest concern I have about President Trump and the core issue in his presidency. It's not the Russia investigation or his tense, often contradictory relationship with Congress, or even his inexperience or business-like approach to government, it's that he's unwilling by all reports and accounts to learn how to be the President, read the material and take advice from people who have been there and done that.

He could be a fine (not good) president if he actually tried, but he gets in his own way and his ignorance on governmental affairs - foreign policy, chain of command, judicial independence, Congressional oversight - is what's causing him the most grief.

To add, this week I'm undergoing training in how to testify before Congress and have gotten an opportunity to sit in on both House and Senate sessions, though yesterday's House sessions were cancelled due to the shooting in Virginia. I feel like I'm more prepared, having less then a week of formal training in governmental procedures outside of my purview for the agency I work for, then President Trump is with six months on the job and hundreds of advisers.

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## F-22Raptor

Now Trump is claiming that him being investigated for obstruction of justice is a phony story.

Trump literally admitted in an interview that he had Russia on his mind when he fired Comey. What a mental midget!

Trump Tried to Convince NSA Chief to Absolve Him of Any Russian Collusion: Report

A recent National Security Agency memo documents a phone call where U.S. President Donald Trump pressures agency chief Admiral Mike Rogers to publicly state there is no evidence of collusion between his campaign and Russia, say reports.

The memo was written by Rick Ledgett, the former Deputy Director of the National Security Agency (NSA), sources familiar with the memo told _ The Wall Street Journal_. Ledgett stepped  down from his job this spring.

The memo said Trump questioned the findings of America’s intelligence community that Russia interfered in the 2016 election. American intelligence agencies issued a report early this year that found Russian intelligence agencies hacked the country’s political parties and worked to sway the election to Trump.

The Russia investigation’s special counsel Robert Mueller plans to interview Ledgett as part of his investigation into Russia’s efforts to manipulate in the 2016 vote, a source told the _ WSJ_ . Mueller is also probing whether  Trump himself obstructed justice when he fired former FBI Director James Comey on May 9, according to the _ Washington Post_ .

“They made up a phony collusion with the Russians story, found zero proof, so now they go for obstruction of justice on the phony story. Nice,”  Trump tweeted Thursday. “You are witnessing the single greatest WITCH HUNT in American political history - led by some very bad and conflicted people!”  he wrote.

Comey testified a week ago that Trump had pressured him to “let go” an investigation into fired National Security Advisor Michael Flynn after Flynn misled Vice President Mike Pence about contacts he had had with Russian officials.

Comey also testified that Trump asked him to publicly deny that the president was being investigated by the FBI. Comey said that at the time Trump was not being investigated, but he demurred from Trump’s request because he would have to publicly correct his statement if the facts changed.

On March 20 Comey testified that his investigation into Russian interference was looking at whether Trump’s campaign colluded with the foreign power. British  intelligence agencies first picked up contacts between Trump’s campaign members and associates in 2015.

Two current and two former officials told the _ Washington Post_ that in March Trump asked Rogers and Director of National Intelligence Daniel Coats to publicly deny the existence of any evidence of collusion between his campaign and Russia during the 2016 election. 

During testimony to the Senate Intelligence Committee on June 7, neither Coats nor Rogers would answer many specific questions, but both said they did not feel pressure. Coats  testified that he “never felt pressure to intervene” in the Russia investigation.

“In the three-plus years that I have been the director of the National Security Agency, to the best of my recollection, I have never been directed to do anything I believed to be illegal, immoral, unethical or inappropriate,” Rogers said. “And to the best of my recollection … I do not recall ever feeling pressured to do so.”

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-tried...ogers-russia-investigation-fake-report-626073

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## LA se Karachi

_https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2462_

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## cloud4000

LA se Karachi said:


> _https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2462_



Not surprising given that Clinton won the popular vote, so Trump was starting with lower approval ratings, to begin with. I would like to see a breakdown by both his hardcore supporters and independents who voted for him. I presume many of the latter regret voting for him.

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## Zabaniyah

This whole drama is starting to make me feel....nauseating!


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## cloud4000

Max Boot is a noted Republican and neo-con. That he thinks that Donald Trump is stupid is a telling sign that not even the GOP is full on board; and, in fact, are probably looking at ways to jettison him less he single-handily destroys their party.

http://www.businessinsider.com/is-d...tm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer-bi

*MAX BOOT: Donald Trump is proving too stupid to be president*




Max Boot, Foreign Policy





Donald Trump. Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images

I’m starting to suspect that Donald Trump may not have been right when he said, "You know, I’m like a smart person."

The evidence continues to mount that he is far from smart — so far, in fact, that he may not be capable of carrying out his duties as president.

There is, for example, the story of how Trump met with the pastors of two major Presbyterian churches in New York.

"I did very, very well with evangelicals in the polls," he bragged.

When the pastors told Trump they weren’t evangelicals, he demanded to know, "What are you then?"

They told him they were mainline Presbyterians. "But you’re all Christians?" he asked. Yes, they had to assure him, Presbyterians are Christians. The kicker: Trump himself is Presbyterian.

Or the story of how Trump asked the editors of the _Economist_ whether they had ever heard of the phrase "priming the pump." Yes, they assured him, they had. "I haven’t heard it," Trump continued. "I mean, I just … I came up with it a couple of days ago, and I thought it was good." The phrase has been in widespread use since at least the 1930s.

Or the story of how, after arriving in Israel from Saudi Arabia, Trump told his hosts, "We just got back from the Middle East."

These aren’t examples of stupidity, you may object, but of ignorance.

These aren’t examples of stupidity, you may object, but of ignorance.
This has become a favorite talking point of Trump’s enablers.

House Speaker Paul Ryan, for example, excused Trump’s attempts to pressure FBI Director James Comey into dropping a criminal investigation of former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn on the grounds that "the president’s new at this" and supposedly didn’t realize that he was doing anything wrong.

But Trump has been president for nearly five months now, and he has shown no capacity to learn on the job.

More broadly, Trump has had a lifetime — 71 years — and access to America’s finest educational institutions (he’s a graduate of the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School, he never tires of reminding us) to learn things.




Trump in the 80's. AP

And yet he doesn’t seem to have acquired even the most basic information that a high school student should possess. Recall that Trump said that Frederick Douglass, who died in 1895, was "an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job and is being recognized more and more."

He also claimed that Andrew Jackson, who died 16 years before the Civil War, "was really angry that he saw what was happening in regard to the Civil War."

Why does he know so little? Because he doesn’t read books or even long articles.

"I never have," he proudly told a reporter last year. "I’m always busy doing a lot."

As president, Trump’s intelligence briefings have been dumbed down, denuded of nuance, and larded with maps and pictures because he can’t be bothered to read a lot of words. He’d rather play golf.

As president, Trump’s intelligence briefings have been dumbed down.
The surest indication of how not smart Trump is that he thinks his inability or lack of interest in acquiring knowledge doesn’t matter.

He said last year that he reaches the right decisions "with very little knowledge other than the knowledge I [already] had, plus the words ‘common sense,’ because I have a lot of common sense and I have a lot of business ability."

How’s that working out? There’s a reason why surveys show more support for Trump’s impeachment than for his presidency.

From his catastrophically ill-conceived executive order on immigration to his catastrophically ill-conceived firing of Comey, his administration has been one disaster after another. And those fiascos can be ascribed directly to the president’s lack of intellectual horsepower.




President Donald Trump shakes hands with then-FBI director James Comey.Andrew Harrer/Pool,Getty Images

How could Trump fire Comey knowing that the FBI director could then testify about the improper requests Trump had made to exonerate himself and drop the investigation of Flynn? And in case there was any doubt about Trump’s intent, he dispelled it by acknowledging on TV that he had the "Russia thing" in mind when firing the FBI director.

That’s tantamount to admitting obstruction of justice. Is this how a smart person behaves?

Is this how a smart person behaves?
If Trump decides to fire the widely respected special counsel Robert Mueller, he will only be compounding this stupidity.

Or what about Trump’s response to the June 3 terrorist attack in London?

He reacted by tweeting his support for the "original Travel Ban," rather than the "watered down, politically correct version" under review by the Supreme Court. Legal observers — including Kellyanne Conway’s husband — instantly saw that Trump was undermining his own case, because the travel ban had been revised precisely in order to pass judicial scrutiny.

Indeed, the 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals, in refusing to reinstate the travel ban on June 12, cited Trump’s tweets against him. Is this how a smart person behaves?

You could argue that Trump’s lack of acumen is actually his saving grace, because he would be much more dangerous if he were cleverer in implementing his radical agenda. But you can also make the case that his vacuity is imperiling American security.

You could argue that Trump’s lack of acumen is actually his saving grace. But you can also make the case that his vacuity is imperiling American security.
Trump shared "code-word information" with Russia’s foreign minister, apparently without realizing what he was doing.

In the process, he may have blown America’s best source of intelligence on Islamic State plots — a top-secret Israeli penetration of the militant group’s computers.

Trump picked a fight on Twitter with Qatar, apparently not knowing that this small, oil-rich emirate is host to a major US air base that is of vital importance in the air war against the Islamic State.

Trump criticized London’s mayor, Sadiq Khan, based on a blatant misreading of what Khan said in the aftermath of the June 3 attack: The mayor had said there was "no reason to be alarmed" about a heightened police presence on the streets — not, as Trump claimed, about the threat of terrorism.

In the process, Trump has alienated British public opinion and may have helped the anti-American Labour Party leader, Jeremy Corbyn, win votes in Britain’s general election.




President Donald Trump and other world leaders at the G7 summit on May 26, 2017 in Taormina, Italy. Guido Bergmann/Bundesregierung via Getty Images

Trump pulled out of the Paris climate accord apparently because he thinks that global warming — a scientifically proven fact — is a hoax. His speech announcing the pullout demonstrated that he has no understanding of what the Paris accord actually is — a nonbinding compact that does not impose any costs on the United States.

Trump failed to affirm Article V, a bedrock of NATO, during his visit to Brussels, apparently because he labors under the misapprehension that European allies owe the United States and NATO "vast sums of money."

In fact, NATO members are now increasing their defense spending, but the money will not go to the United States or to the alliance; it will go to their own armed forces. Trump has since said he supports Article V, but his initial hesitation undermines American credibility and may embolden Russia.

Trump supporters used to claim that sage advisors could make up for his shortcomings. But he is proving too willful and erratic to be steered by those around him who know better. As Maggie Haberman of the _New York Times_notes: "Trump doesn’t want to be controlled. In [the] campaign, [he] would often do [the] opposite of what he was advised to do, simply because it was opposite."

The 25th Amendment to the US Constitution provides that if the vice president and a majority of the cabinet certify that the president is "unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office," he can be removed with the concurrence of two-thirds of both houses.

That won’t happen, because Republicans are too craven to stand up to Trump. But on the merits perhaps it should.

After nearly five months in office, Trump has given no indication that he possesses the mental capacity to be president.

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## RabzonKhan

John Oliver hilariously exposed Trumps coal job lies.

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## Nilgiri




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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> John Oliver hilariously exposed Trumps coal job lies.




Love the squirrel! Yes, the biggest delusion Trump ever uttered was that coal miners would get their jobs back if only onerous regulations are repealed when, in fact, economic and technology factors are killing coal jobs. Oliver showed this with great effect, in addition to proving that coal companies are, in fact, screwing over coal workers.

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## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> John Oliver hilariously exposed Trumps coal job lies.


Steven Crowder hilariously rebutts John Oliver's segment on Coal

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## Nilgiri

@CBU-105

Georgia 

Dems are raging pretty hard right now....they made it a "referendum" on Trump and poured 30 million dollars in (for just one seat - a historical record apparently) and had a few % improvement to show for it (but performed way worse than nov 8th federal result and thus lost pretty badly).

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## CBU-105

Nilgiri said:


> @CBU-105
> 
> Georgia
> 
> Dems are raging pretty hard right now....they made it a "referendum" on Trump and poured 30 million dollars in (for just one seat - a historical record apparently) and had a few % improvement to show for it (but performed way worse than nov 8th federal result and thus lost pretty badly).


Yep, watched bits of a panel discussion on fake news CNN earlier. Don Lemon, Symone 'harambe' Sanders and others looked pretty ruffled lol

btw, not super interested in this run off stuff but it's great to see the party of Trump win. That Gianforte body slammer guy winning was also epic 

Dems are doomed with crooked H refusing to fade away gracefully, great news for Trump.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/877357653260980224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/875112655836643328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/877353720169676801

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/877352643286278145
lmao, Nate Silver is getting trolled hard.

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## CBU-105

@Nilgiri @Jacob Martin @LA se Karachi and others...

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## LeGenD

Democrats performance (i.e. losses) in special elections 2017 at a glance:

Georgia = L
Montana = L
South Carolina = L
Kansas = L

Republicans = 4
Democrats = 0

------

Democrats tried an inoffensive moderate message in Georgia. They ran a banjo-strumming populist in Montana. They called in the cavalry in South Carolina and tried to catch their foe sleeping through a long-shot in Kansas.

None of it worked.

Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/21/politics/democrats-georgia-elections-analysis/

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## Nilgiri

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/877554831648542720

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## CBU-105

tedayeda said:


> "Not surprising given that Clinton won the popular vote"


The President's detractors really should let that particular false talking point go. He won the popular vote in 30 out of 50 states, she won by a huge margin in California.

Americans overwhelmingly voted for President Trump.


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## CBU-105

tedayeda said:


> Republicans know it is unwinnable and they are not wasting their money or energy in that state.


True. 

LIVE now President Trump rally:


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## Jacob Martin

CBU-105 said:


> @Nilgiri @Jacob Martin @LA se Karachi and others...



Democrats will not win elections unless they dump the SJW, PC, wannabe-Fascist brigade. They are literally sitting on the notion that their control of mainstream media and emerging demographics will eventually turn things in their favour.

Well guess what, they don't understand the internet and use it exclusively as a tool to supplement their control over the discourse, by doubling down in their own echo chamber. So they think that BuzzFeed is the entire internet because they go there.

If you don't include people in the discussion today, they will invite themselves to the party through social media. This elitist nonsense will not do anymore.

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## CBU-105

Jacob Martin said:


> Democrats will not win elections unless they dump the SJW, PC, wannabe-Fascist brigade. They are literally sitting on the notion that their control of mainstream media and emerging demographics will eventually turn things in their favour.
> 
> Well guess what, they don't understand the internet and use it exclusively as a tool to supplement their control over the discourse, by doubling down in their own echo chamber. So they think that BuzzFeed is the entire internet because they go there.
> 
> If you don't include people in the discussion today, they will invite themselves to the party through social media. This elitist nonsense will not do anymore.


Yep, they've moved too far left with the name-calling, bullying, and labeling everyone who disagrees with their SJW platform a racist, sexist and homo/zeno/islamophobe etc nonsense and have alienated a bunch of regular working class white people, who also happen to be the majority.

iski suno, chutiye water buffalo ki: 






the blue dogs




(aka white working class democrats) are _worse _than republicans because they're helping the capitalist "1%ers" 

posted this more than a year ago, and the article was right, these are the Obama voters who flipped it for Trump in all those formerly blue bastions.

http://www.cnbc.com/heres-a-map-of-the-us-counties-that-flipped-to-trump-from-democrats/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/obama-trump-counties/

and they want to call them racist, and raise their taxes.. 






prediction: dems go "populist progressive" in 2020 and will be defeated again, by a bigger margin.

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## Jacob Martin

CBU-105 said:


> Yep, they've moved too far left with the name-calling, bullying, and labeling everyone who disagrees with their SJW platform a racist, sexist and homo/zeno/islamophobe etc nonsense and have alienated a bunch of regular working class white people, who also happen to be the majority.
> 
> iski suno, chutiye water buffalo ki:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the blue dogs
> View attachment 405576
> 
> (aka white working class democrats) are _worse _than republicans because they're helping the capitalist "1%ers"
> 
> posted this more than a year ago, and the article was right, these are the Obama voters who flipped it for Trump in all those formerly blue bastions.
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/heres-a-map-of-the-us-counties-that-flipped-to-trump-from-democrats/
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/obama-trump-counties/
> 
> and they want to call them racist, and raise their taxes..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> prediction: dems go "populist progressive" in 2020 and will be defeated again, by a bigger margin.



Yes that's right. All we need is for Cenk "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT A PROGRESSIVE IS!!!" Uygur to tell us what the Democrats should do. He is one of the top ten reasons why they lost support in a demographic that they should have owned. His aggressive and condescending tone is nauseating at best. It would take a special type of tool to enjoy the garbage he spews.

Having said that, I think political promiscuity should be encouraged. Except for registered voters (and I don't see why someone would do that in today's world), everyone else should be free and willing to change support depending upon their immediate priorities. Political loyalty is seriously over-hyped as a virtue; in fact I don't think it is a virtue at all.

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## bhimram

Jacob Martin said:


> Political loyalty is seriously over-hyped as a virtue; in fact I don't think it is a virtue at all.



Ever wondered who made it as a virtue?
It's not the republicans but the democrats with their holier than thou attitude of how they are better than the savage hillbilly republicans.

It's eerily similar to how Congress, Left, TMC, SP, BSP etc treat BJP & it's supporters in India.

How can parties treat people as garbage just because they don't support your thinking and yet expect the same people to vote for you?!


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## Jacob Martin

bhimram said:


> Ever wondered who made it as a virtue?
> It's not the republicans but the democrats with their holier than thou attitude of how they are better than the savage hillbilly republicans.
> 
> It's eerily similar to how Congress, Left, TMC, SP, BSP etc treat BJP & it's supporters in India.
> 
> How can parties treat people as garbage just because they don't support your thinking and yet expect the same people to vote for you?!



Condescending attitude towards opponents is a different issue. Not pledging lifelong allegiance applies to the average voter who must evaluate each party/candidate as per their own priorities. So if the economy is my priority, I should be able to assess what each party brings to the table on the issue. Same applies to security, immigration, etc.

It is not to say that there is no hierarchy of desirability among issues. It is for each voter to identify their hierarchy using both information and good sense.


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## bhimram

Jacob Martin said:


> Condescending attitude towards opponents is a different issue. Not pledging lifelong allegiance applies to the average voter who must evaluate each party/candidate as per their own priorities. So if the economy is my priority, I should be able to assess what each party brings to the table on the issue. Same applies to security, immigration, etc.



Absolutely agree with you.

Now the question is, who made it about people and not the issues? When I look at the democratic loonies running amok in US, curtailing even free speech just because the speaker happens to support republican, what should I think?

Couple of weeks back, these loonies in an university disbarred all whites from campus as symbolic protest of "white oppression". I am not making up this shit man. This really happened.
Imagine you are a white voter looking at this.......

Yeah - These left loonies ensured a looney entered the white house.


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## Jacob Martin

bhimram said:


> Absolutely agree with you.
> 
> Now the question is, who made it about people and not the issues? When I look at the democratic loonies running amok in US, curtailing even free speech just because the speaker happens to support republican, what should I think?
> 
> Couple of weeks back, these loonies in an university disbarred all whites from campus as symbolic protest of "white oppression". I am not making up this shit man. This really happened.
> Imagine you are a white voter looking at this.......
> 
> Yeah - These left loonies ensured a looney entered the white house.



Refer to the work of Jordan Peterson in this area. Very relevant, although he is Canadian. Standing up for free speech.

What is happening today in American universities is essentially postmodernism run amok. Safe spaces, trigger warnings and micro-aggression are distopian concepts - they will take us towards an Orwellian future.

If you are a student at an American University then I suggest you organize others who share your views and stand up to these crypto-fascists (yeah I know I labeled them, bit it so happens that's exactly what they are).

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## bhimram

Jacob Martin said:


> What is happening today in American universities is essentially postmodernism run amok. Safe spaces, trigger warnings and micro-aggression are distopian concepts - they will take us towards an Orwellian future.



It's not just the universities man.

Other day, I was watching a debate on CNN, the whole point of the debate was why a 40 year old man dressed as a 5 year old girl, (This man apparently feels like a 5 year old girl inside) is not allowed to enter a girls bathroom to use it.
The CNN anchor was actually saying since this person feels like a girl inside, this person should be allowed to use girls rest room.


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## Jacob Martin

bhimram said:


> It's not just the universities man.
> 
> Other day, I was watching a debate on CNN, the whole point of the debate was why a 40 year old man dressed as a 5 year old girl, (This man apparently feels like a 5 year old girl inside) is not allowed to enter a girls bathroom to use it.
> The CNN anchor was actually saying since this person feels like a girl inside, this person should be allowed to use girls rest room.



Welcome to the brave new world. Where you cannot expect a 40 year-old to adhere to simple rules if they happen to be in the Western world. Now contrast that with what would happen to this person if they were anywhere in less developed nations.

Is it a wonder that so many people consider it the ultimate achievement to migrate? I just wish that people are able to comprehend the ethos of a system that allows such liberty. If one cannot integrate into a society that offers such freedom, then I don't know what one desires out of life.

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## bhimram

I watch this video and I understand why Democrats are finished.


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## Gomig-21

Didn't Ted Nugent tell Trump he should kill Clinton and Obama? lol, not much different than what Jonny Dep said. Many of these celebrities are nuts, anyway. Both parties are insane and partisanship seems to be at its peak. I thought it was bad during Bill Clinton's days, but got worst with W and even worst with Obama. Now it's at a new, unprecedented high with this clown. 

If the AHCA gets passed by the senate, the Dems will have taken their greatest hit to date. It will be interesting to see if the Republicans get together on this one. Small margin of nays is a great hurdle for them.

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## Nilgiri

More winning with SCOTUS


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## LA se Karachi

*Poll: Trump's approval rating plummets after Senate releases health care bill *

*William Steakin






*
President Donald Trump's approval rating plummeted over the weekend as controversy continues to swirl around Senate Republican's revised health care bill.

Just 38 percent of Americans now say they approve of the job the president is doing in office, a drop of four points in just three days, according to the latest Gallup survey released on Sunday.

Trump's disapproval also increased by three points up to 57 percent.

After sinking as low as 37 percent a few weeks ago, Trump's numbers bounced back last week, reaching as high as 42 percent approval -- a near month-long high for the president.

However, the president's approval rating began to dive again following the backlash that erupted after Senate Republicans released their revised Obamacare replacement bill.

Not only has the bill faced harsh criticism from Democratic lawmakers, but top Republicans in the Senate including Rand Paul, Ted Cruz and Mike Lee all revealed in a joint statement they were "not ready to vote for this bill."

"There's no way we should be voting on this next week. No way," Republican Sen. Ron Johnson said on Sunday. "I have a hard time believing Wisconsin constituents or even myself will have enough time to properly evaluate this, for me to vote for a motion to proceed. So I've been encouraging leadership, the White House, anybody I can talk to for quite some time, let's not rush this process. Let's have the integrity to show the American people what it is, show them the truth."

The president, however, says he remains confident health care reform will get done, and soon.

"I don't think they're that far off. Famous last words, right? But I think we're going to get there," Trump said in an interview Sunday on FOX News' "Fox & Friends."

*https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/06/26/poll-trump-approval-plummets-health-care/22981092/*


*



*

*https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/06/26/poll-trump-approval-plummets-health-care/22981092/*

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## Nilgiri

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/sarah-sanders-cnn-a-disgrace-to-journalism/article/2627242

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/3...ducer-calling-russia-coverage-mostly-bullshit

@Desert Fox


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## salimpheku

If we go by the left media projections of Trump's approval ratings, which have been "plummeting" for past 6 months, the ratings should be in negative by now, or near ZERO.


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## LA se Karachi



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## Nilgiri




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## LA se Karachi

*Before: *




















*After:*






@RabzonKhan

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## salimpheku

LA se Karachi said:


> *Before: *
> 
> 
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Dude, the democrats have become a full time running time in US.
Have you even seen the new expose by CNN's own employees? Or may be you missed all the election results in last year.


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## LA se Karachi



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## Nilgiri

LA se Karachi said:


>



You solved what these endless amounts of "fact finding/reporting" ...erm...vectors have not in producing an iota of evidence on "russian collusion"...with just a meme! Oh wait:


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## LA se Karachi

Nilgiri said:


> You solved what these endless amounts of "fact finding/reporting" ...erm...vectors have not in producing an iota of evidence on "russian collusion"...with just a meme! Oh wait:




Read the post again. First of all, it's not a meme. They are quotes from each of the men. That should be self-evident. What you posted above is an example of a meme. Secondly, no one mentioned anything about "collusion". You used that word, not me. Feel free to post whatever you like, but with all due respect, please don't twist my words. 

You are more than welcome to have a different opinion on Trump and his problems. There's no sense in debating the topic. We've done it multiple times before, and it doesn't seem to lead anywhere. So long as your facts are correct, you are just as much entitled to your opinion as I am. We can agree to disagree. I'll leave it there.

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## Nilgiri

LA se Karachi said:


> Read the post again. First of all, it's not a meme. They are quotes from each of the men. That should be self-evident. What you posted above is an example of a meme. Secondly, no one mentioned anything about "collusion". You used that word, not me. Feel free to post whatever you like, but with all due respect, please don't twist my words.
> 
> You are more than welcome to have a different opinion on Trump and his problems. There's no sense in debating the topic. We've done it multiple times before, and it doesn't seem to lead anywhere. So long as your facts are correct, you are just as much entitled to your opinion as I am. We can agree to disagree. I'll leave it there.



Just messin whichu

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## Gomig-21

Despite the huge problems in the country and around the world, this obsessed, self absorbed, off the hinge, egomaniac lunatic, self destructing, petulant child can't learn to have the dignity of the most powerful man in the world and is so concerned about what people are saying about him that he reacts like a 13 year-old girl fighting for popularity in school.

George W. was bashed by the media left and right and even that nitwit showed thick skin. Obama was constantly pounded by the right wing media -- including this psycho who's miraculously president now -- and never showed the character of a butt-hurt teenage girl. Instead they had better judgement and showed restraint and class and never reacted like what we just witnessed.

The king of "fake news accusing" does what? Has a fake Time magazine cover with his face on it!







Then gets called on it and this is how he reacts.

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## salimpheku

Gomig-21 said:


> Despite the huge problems in the country and around the world, this obsessed, self absorbed, off the hinge, egomaniac lunatic, self destructing, petulant child can't learn to have the dignity of the most powerful man in the world and is so concerned about what people are saying about him that he reacts like a 13 year-old girl fighting for popularity in school.
> 
> George W. was bashed by the media left and right and even that nitwit showed thick skin. Obama was constantly pounded by the right wing media -- including this psycho who's miraculously president now -- and never showed the character of a butt-hurt teenage girl. Instead they had better judgement and showed restraint and class and never reacted like what we just witnessed.
> 
> The king of "fake news accusing" does what? Has a fake Time magazine cover with his face on it!



The left media & democrats still don't understand what Trump is doing.

You think Trump is a fool & Lunatic? How delusional are you people?
He is playing the left media & democrats like a pied piper and they are falling for it hook, line & sinker.

The left voters are never going to vote for Trump, no matter what. Every thing he says or does endears him to his voter base. The more the left get triggered, the more Trump comes off as champion to the Middle America.

I am absolutely aghast seeing the Left falling for this obvious Trump trap!!


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## RabzonKhan

Trump’s latest tweet is a recipe for disaster, since his healthcare plan is going nowhere, because his own Republican Senators cannot even agree on it, so his solution, let’s take away healthcare coverage from millions of poor and middle-class Americans, this just shows how clueless this filthy rich man is, he doesn’t give a damn about poor or middle-class Americans and how they will suffer if Obama care is repealed and not immediately replaced.

But here’s the sad fact, during the campaign, candidate Trump repeatedly promised the American people that he will repeal and replace Obama care with some kind of “great health care Plan”. But now he wants to “immediately repeal and then replace at a later date”, how damn heartless!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/880737163247267840

Trump says he will repeal and replace Obamacare | 3rd Presidential Debate | Election 2016:







LA se Karachi said:


> *Before: *
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> @RabzonKhan


Well, at least now Mr hypocrite and chief admits that Russia interfered in our elections, what a joke.

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## maximuswarrior

salimpheku said:


> The left media & democrats still don't understand what Trump is doing.
> 
> You think Trump is a fool & Lunatic? How delusional are you people?
> He is playing the left media & democrats like a pied piper and they are falling for it hook, line & sinker.
> 
> The left voters are never going to vote for Trump, no matter what. Every thing he says or does endears him to his voter base. The more the left get triggered, the more Trump comes off as champion to the Middle America.
> 
> I am absolutely aghast seeing the Left falling for this obvious Trump trap!!



LOL at the constant left media BS argument. Dude, get a life and stop blaming the left. This conspiracy theory is very old now. Trump is a failed jerk. Admit it. Your Trump has turned America into a complete circus.

Trump is so utterly pathetic. Ever seen a sitting president of any nation picking fights with anchors on Twitter? LMAO

It is amazing how these Indians keep defending Trump when almost the entire universe is opposed to orangeman.


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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> Despite the huge problems in the country and around the world, this obsessed, self absorbed, off the hinge, egomaniac lunatic, self destructing, petulant child can't learn to have the dignity of the most powerful man in the world and is so concerned about what people are saying about him that he reacts like a 13 year-old girl fighting for popularity in school.
> 
> George W. was bashed by the media left and right and even that nitwit showed thick skin. Obama was constantly pounded by the right wing media -- including this psycho who's miraculously president now -- and never showed the character of a butt-hurt teenage girl. Instead they had better judgement and showed restraint and class and never reacted like what we just witnessed.
> 
> The king of "fake news accusing" does what? Has a fake Time magazine cover with his face on it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then gets called on it and this is how he reacts.


Once again it shows that he is not presidential material, his tweet was absolutely disgusting and beneath the dignity of the office of the US President.

He is an embarrassment to all decent Americans!

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## salimpheku

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL at the constant left media BS argument. Dude, get a life and stop blaming the left. This conspiracy theory is very old now. Trump is a failed jerk. Admit it. Your Trump has turned America into a complete circus.
> 
> Trump is so utterly pathetic. Ever seen a sitting president of any nation picking fights with anchors on Twitter? LMAO
> 
> It is amazing how these Indians keep defending Trump when almost the entire universe is opposed to orangeman.



Trump is all you said.
Guess what, he still won against Hillary.

It's not me defending Trump dumbo. I hate the guy as well. What I am pained to see is the obvious strategy of Trump which you keep falling to.
Trump voters are not the ones tweeting or the ones coming to TV studios. How many elections have the democrats won in the last year? What do you think the reason for it is?

Democrats do not have majority in any segment of governance. Now they have lost the edge on Supreme Court too.

I am here pointing to the obvious failed strategy by left targeting trump in the wrong way. Oppose his policies minus the rhetoric. Don't debate Trump at his level. The left will never win that battle. Change the parameters of the fight to have a chance. Right now, Trump is whooping them & moping the floor with them and these morons are too dumb to realize it.


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## maximuswarrior

salimpheku said:


> Trump is all you said.
> Guess what, he still won against Hillary.
> 
> It's not me defending Trump dumbo. I hate the guy as well. What I am pained to see is the obvious strategy of Trump which you keep falling to.
> Trump voters are not the ones tweeting or the ones coming to TV studios. How many elections have the democrats won in the last year? What do you think the reason for it is?
> 
> Democrats do not have majority in any segment of governance. Now they have lost the edge on Supreme Court too.
> 
> I am here pointing to the obvious failed strategy by left targeting trump in the wrong way. Oppose his policies minus the rhetoric. Don't debate Trump at his level. The left will never win that battle. Change the parameters of the fight to have a chance. Right now, Trump is whooping them & moping the floor with them and these morons are too dumb to realize it.



Good thing he won because now is payback time and he isn't disappointing either. What Trump has done in a matter of months, no one could do in a decade. Chaos and anarchy. Keep it up Trump!


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## salimpheku

https://www.yahoo.com/news/bill-cre...ietly-picks-democratic-support-124521145.html

Lookie here.

More hit yourself in the testicles strategy from Democrats.
I have no idea WTF they are smoking.


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## T-72

LOL he's back !

campaign Trump is back. 

and these idiots in the msm were thinking they can win a gutter brawl with him.

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## gambit

RabzonKhan said:


> Once again it shows that he is not presidential material, his tweet was absolutely disgusting and beneath the dignity of the office of the US President.
> 
> *He is an embarrassment to all decent Americans!*


Trump does not care, and aside from coastal Americans, the rest of the America also does not care.







Disregard the spikes. Trump campaigned in the states that are *BETWEEN* the spikes. The result is Trump won.

Your definition of 'decent Americans' most likely are those in the spikes, and like it or not, that is not representative of the US. The American electoral system is rigged to favor the states, not the general population, and that is the biggest misconception foreigners have of US. Trump is not an intellectual man, but neither is he stupid. Between him and his advisors, they devised a campaign strategy that targeted states, not population count.

So even though personally, I despised Trump, I am saying you are making a big mistake in underestimating Trump, just like so many have,

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## T-72




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## T-72

another great Crowder episode, interesting segments with James O'Keefe about fake news CNN and Sargon. 

don't be upset about the Sweden cultural appropriation bit, he took the piss on India and open pooping last week. 

@Nilgiri @Desert Fox and others

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## T-72

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/881271748280365056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/881271809433374721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/881273362454118400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/881281755017355264


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## T-72

MOAR !


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/881503147168071680


 this is great 







feck CNN, piece of shite pro jihad fake news network


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## LA se Karachi



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## T-72

LA se Karachi said:


>


politics and personal dislike aside, how can people not love what Trump's doing to the fake/lame-stream dinosaur "news" media. remember how they shafted your guy, Bernie ? 

also, this one pwns all of those put together:


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## LA se Karachi

T-72 said:


> politics and personal dislike aside, how can people not love what Trump's doing to the fake/lame-stream dinosaur "news" media. remember how they shafted your guy, Bernie ?




Um, politics aside? What does that even mean? He's the most important and influential politician in the country as the President. Trump is an abomination politically. I doubt that's going change. 

And what exactly is he doing to the mainstream media, with his 35-38% approval rating? If anything, he's greatly strengthened the mainstream media, for better or for worse. 

Anyway, back to the cartoons :

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## VCheng

It is going to be a long and weary three-and-a-half years.


https://www.economist.com/news/lead...-bad-situation-worse-donald-trumps-washington

*American politics*
*Donald Trump’s Washington is paralysed*
_And the man in the Oval Office is making a bad situation worse_

* Print edition | Leaders*
Jul 1st 2017

JULY 4th ought to bring Americans together. It is a day to celebrate how 13 young colonies united against British rule to begin their great experiment in popular government. But *this July 4th Americans are riven by mutual incomprehension: between Republicans and Democrats, yes, but also between factory workers and university students, country folk and city-dwellers. And then there is President Donald Trump, not only a symptom of America’s divisions but a cause of them, too.*

Mr Trump won power partly because he spoke for voters who feel that the system is working against them, as our special report this week sets out. *He promised that, by dredging Washington of the elites and lobbyists too stupid or self-serving to act for the whole nation, he would fix America’s politics.

His approach is not working.* Five months into his first term, Mr Trump presides over a political culture that is even more poisonous than when he took office. His core voters are remarkably loyal. Many business people still believe that he will bring tax cuts and deregulation. But their optimism stands on ever-shakier ground. *The Trump presidency has been plagued by poor judgment and missed opportunities. The federal government is already showing the strain. Sooner or later, the harm will spread beyond the beltway and into the economy.*

*From sea to shining sea*

*America’s loss of faith in politics did not start with Mr Trump. For decades, voters have complained about the gridlock in Washington and the growing influence of lobbyists, often those with the deepest pockets.* Francis Fukuyama, a political theorist, blamed the decay on the “vetocracy”, a tangle of competing interests and responsibilities that can block almost any ambitious reform. When the world changes and the federal government cannot rise to the challenge, he argued, voters’ disillusion only grows.

Mr Trump has also fuelled the mistrust. He has correctly identified areas where America needs reform, but botched his response—partly because of his own incontinent ego. Take tax. No one doubts that America’s tax code is a mess, stuffed full of loopholes and complexity. But Mr Trump’s reform plans show every sign of turning into a cut for the rich that leaves the code as baffling as ever. So, too, health care. Instead of reforming Obamacare, Republicans are in knots over a bill that would leave millions of Mr Trump’s own voters sicker and poorer.

Institutions are vulnerable. The White House is right to complain about America’s overlapping and competing agencies, which spun too much red tape under President Barack Obama. Yet its attempt to reform this “administrative state” is wrecking the machinery the government needs to function. *Mr Trump’s hostility has already undermined the courts, the intelligence services, the state department and America’s environmental watchdog.* He wants deep budget cuts and has failed to fill presidential appointments. Of 562 key positions identified by the _Washington Post_, 390 remain without a nominee.

*As harmful as what Mr Trump does is the way he does it. *In the campaign he vowed to fight special interests. But his solution—to employ business people too rich for lobbyists to buy—is no solution at all. Just look at Mr Trump himself: despite his half-hearted attempts to disentangle the presidency and the family business, nobody knows where one ends and the other begins. He promised to be a deal maker, but his impulse to belittle his opponents and the miasma of scandal and leaks surrounding Russia’s role in the campaign have made the chances of cross-party co-operation even more remote. The lack of respect for expertise, such as the attacks on the Congressional Budget Office over its dismal scoring of health-care reform, only makes Washington more partisan. Most important, Mr Trump’s disregard for the truth cuts into what remains of the basis for cross-party agreement. If you cannot agree on the facts, all you have left is a benighted clash of rival tribes.

*Til selfish gain no longer stain*

*Optimists say that America, with its immense diversity, wealth and reserves of human ingenuity and resilience can take all this in its stride. Mr Trump is hardly its first bad president.* He may be around for only four years—if that. In a federal system, the states and big cities can be islands of competence amid the dysfunction. *America’s economy is seemingly in rude health, with stockmarkets near their all-time highs. The country dominates global tech and finance, and its oil and gas producers have more clout than at any time since the 1970s.*

*Those are huge strengths. But they only mitigate the damage being done in Washington.* Health-care reform affects a sixth of the economy. Suspicion and mistrust corrode all they touch. If the ablest Americans shun a career in public service, the bureaucracy will bear the scars. Besides, a bad president also imposes opportunity costs. The rising monopoly power of companies has gone unchallenged. Schools and training fall short even as automation and artificial intelligence are about to transform the nature of work. If Mr Trump serves a full eight years—which, despite attacks from his critics, is possible—the price of paralysis and incompetence could be huge.

*The dangers are already clear in foreign policy. By pandering to the belief that Washington elites sell America short, Mr Trump is doing enduring harm to American leadership. *The Trans-Pacific Partnership would have entrenched America’s concept of free markets in Asia and shored up its military alliances. He walked away from it. His rejection of the Paris climate accord showed that he sees the world not as a forum where countries work together to solve problems, but as an arena where they compete for advantage. His erratic decision-making and his chumminess with autocrats lead his allies to wonder if they can depend on him in a crisis.

*July 4th is a time to remember that America has renewed itself in the past;* think of Theodore Roosevelt’s creation of a modern, professional state, FDR’s New Deal, and the Reagan revolution. In principle it is not too late for Mr Trump to embrace bipartisanship and address the real issues. In practice, *it is ever clearer that he is incapable of bringing about such a renaissance. That will fall to his successor.*

_This article appeared in the Leaders section of the print edition under the headline "A divided country"._

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## T-72

LA se Karachi said:


> Um, politics aside? What does that even mean? He's the most important and influential politician in the country as the President. Trump is an abomination politically. I doubt that's going change.


It means that he's more than a politician, he's a personality, a unique shaksiat. While you might not like his politics, as a politician, he's very good, as evidenced by his winning the highest office in the world in his first foray into the world of politics.



LA se Karachi said:


> And what exactly is he doing to the mainstream media, with his 35-38% approval rating?


Stripping away what little they have left of their credibility, one tweet at a time. 

and what about the media's ratings ?



> If anything, he's greatly strengthened the mainstream media, for better or for worse.


No, they're not stronger, just that their liberal echo chambers have grown louder. His election signaled the beginning of the end for mainstream news media in the US. The interwebs is where it's at. 

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump 



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The Trans-Pacific Partnership would have entrenched America’s concept of free markets in Asia and shored up its military alliances. He walked away from it. His rejection of the Paris climate accord showed that he sees the world not as a forum where countries work together to solve problems, but as an arena where they compete for advantage.


Getting out of the TPP and the Paris deal were campaign promises that he kept.

The article is an opinion piece, not news.


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## Hamartia Antidote

okay, I'm not political but this one is funny

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## salimpheku

Hamartia Antidote said:


> okay, I'm not political but this one is funny



All the left liberals challenged fate.
You know what happens when you spit at fate, right? Yeah, Fate always has the last laugh.

On the counting day, I was watching CNN & NBC and I can still see the shell shocked expression on their faces. Oh yeah, John Oliver, the moron who challenged fate by challenging Trump to run for presidency. Oh the crap on his face.


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## Hamartia Antidote

salimpheku said:


> All the left liberals challenged fate.
> You know what happens when you spit at fate, right? Yeah, Fate always has the last laugh.
> 
> On the counting day, I was watching CNN & NBC and I can still see the shell shocked expression on their faces. Oh yeah, John Oliver, the moron who challenged fate by challenging Trump to run for presidency. Oh the crap on his face.



Meh, they deserve to feel stupid for not learning a thing when the Republicans felt they were sitting pretty during the 2012 election.


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## salimpheku

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Meh, they deserve to feel stupid for not learning a thing when the Republicans felt they were sitting pretty during the 2012 election.



I don't mind the stupidity.
It's the arrogance, holier than thou & look at me I am better attitudes that offend me

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## LA se Karachi



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## T-72

LA se Karachi said:


>


lol, those are pretty good.

also, he's leaving for the G-20






The Arab and NATO summits, meeting the pope, and his Jerusalem wall trip was blockbuster, spl the NATO part where he scolded them, the Macron handshake, and shoving the Montenegro guy.

First meeting with Putin at the G-20, a speech to a receptive audience of Polish right wingers, should be interesting, he might use it to hit back at Macron/Merkel and the EU. She recently said they (EU) couldn't count on the US anymore, and Macron's been taking various digs at him, the handshake, make earth great again with Arnold etc

Can't wait for the UN address. 

it's all happening, muahahaa

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## LA se Karachi



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## T-72

Good speech in Warsaw, nicely delivered, presidential (no goof ups). Probably read it beforehand and had some input and say in what went in it to Stephen Miller, who is an excellent propagandist and speechwriter.

- praised the poles' toughness in fighting the commies and the nazis
- Russian destabilization
- radical islamic terror
- our way of life, our ancestors, western civilization is the best
- western civilization is under threat 
- borders forever closed to terrorists and extremists
- west needs will to survive

then there was that bit about burdening sovereign states with supranational bureaucracies that he would like to see fail, hmm, dig at EU ? 

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/here-s-full-text-donald-trump-s-speech-poland-n780046 

next to watch, his chemistry with Putin and another handshake with slimy Macron.


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## T-72




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## T-72

terrified liberals react to Trump's "alt-right" speech.


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## T-72




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## F-22Raptor

Trump Jr. Was Told in Email of Russian Effort to Aid Campaign

WASHINGTON — Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...rt-to-aid-campaign/ar-BBEd1QN?ocid=spartanntp

Donald Jr. colluded with a foreign adversary in an attempt to acquire damaging information on his fathers opponent. This is utter treason.

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## Gomig-21

F-22Raptor said:


> Trump Jr. Was Told in Email of Russian Effort to Aid Campaign
> 
> WASHINGTON — Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email.
> 
> http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...rt-to-aid-campaign/ar-BBEd1QN?ocid=spartanntp
> 
> Donald Jr. colluded with a foreign adversary in an attempt to acquire damaging information on his fathers opponent. This is utter treason.



Wait a minute! I thought this "Russia thing" was just a "nothing burger?" Isn't all this some "brilliant move" from the POTUS to "rile up the left," and expose the "fake news" from the likes of CNN and MSNBC etc.? 

Watch out, people will be AGHAST that some might take this news seriously and can't figure out that this is all some genius plan from a super duper brilliant tweeting billionaire who's ultimate goal is to strengthen the conservatives and drown the liberals by draining the swamp!

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## LA se Karachi

Gomig-21 said:


> Wait a minute! I thought this "Russia thing" was just a "nothing burger?" Isn't all this some "brilliant move" from the POTUS to "rile up the left," and expose the "fake news" from the likes of CNN and MSNBC etc.?
> 
> Watch out, people will be AGHAST that some might take this news seriously and can't figure out that this is all some genius plan from a super duper brilliant tweeting billionaire who's ultimate goal is to strengthen the conservatives and drown the liberals by draining the swamp!



He's manipulating the media to an approval rating below 40%.

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## Gomig-21

LA se Karachi said:


> He's manipulating the media to an approval rating below 40%.



I'm surprised, no childish reactionary tweets.........yet! lol.

I think Tim Kaine might've stretched it a bit today by calling this whole thing treasonous. It might be criminally negligent and worthy of an indictment or whatever, and whether the old man knew about the meeting...or not...lol...is also not something that should be defined as treason IMO. 

Either way, I've lost track of how many bombshells have come out of this administration that I'm almost immune to the shock factor now. It's like "oh, what now?" loool.

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## F-22Raptor

Gomig-21 said:


> I'm surprised, no childish reactionary tweets.........yet! lol.
> 
> I think Tim Kaine might've stretched it a bit today by calling this whole thing treasonous. It might be criminally negligent and worthy of an indictment or whatever, and whether the old man knew about the meeting...or not...lol...is also not something that should be defined as treason IMO.
> 
> Either way, I've lost track of how many bombshells have come out of this administration that I'm almost immune to the shock factor now. It's like "oh, what now?" loool.



It's absolutely treason. Trump Jr. attempted to gain damaging information against the Clinton campaign from a foreign adversary. An adversary he knew was backing his father's campaign, and would have gained said information from espionage against the Clinton campaign and the United States. The Trump admin has repeatedly lied to the American people on Russian meddling, and have been caught with their pants down. If you think this is the end of the story, think again. Conspiracy, perjury, obstruction of justice/witness tampering, and treason charges are realistic IMO. It's hard to say what will happen to Trump himself, but I'd be shocked if some of Trump's associates don't end up in prison. There's a reason why Mueller has assembled such a highly acclaimed legal team. These guys aren't going to waste their time over a bunch of smoke and 'fake news' as Trump would lead us to believe.

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## CBU-105




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## Gomig-21

F-22Raptor said:


> It's absolutely treason.



I wouldn't be so sure. The definition of "treason," as outlined in the Constitution reads as follows:

_“Treason against the United States, shall consist *only* in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.”_



F-22Raptor said:


> Trump Jr. attempted to gain damaging information against the Clinton campaign from a foreign adversary. An adversary he knew was backing his father's campaign, and would have gained said information from espionage against the Clinton campaign and the United States. The Trump admin has repeatedly lied to the American people on Russian meddling, and have been caught with their pants down. If you think this is the end of the story, think again.



I never said it was the end of the story. But so far, it's all "potentially" criminal. We've yet to see anything that constitutes treason.



F-22Raptor said:


> Conspiracy, perjury, obstruction of justice/witness tampering,



All potentially criminal.



F-22Raptor said:


> and treason charges are realistic IMO.



That's where I think people like Kaine and a couple other Dem congressmen need to slow down and not throw that word out there. It's a bit premature to think treason. Treason is a very tight statute, many lawyers have come out and said that.



F-22Raptor said:


> It's hard to say what will happen to Trump himself, but I'd be shocked if some of Trump's associates don't end up in prison. There's a reason why Mueller has assembled such a highly acclaimed legal team. These guys aren't going to waste their time over a bunch of smoke and 'fake news' as Trump would lead us to believe.



By the time Muller gets around to finding anything worthy of congressional hearings, then pressing charges, issuing indictments and subpoenas and if they can successfully get the POTUS for anything, it will be a long and very difficult process to impeach him. If they can't and don't impeach, Trump will pardon Jr, Kuchner and whomever else was in his party that might be found guilty of any crimes.

But so far, I think Russian meddling is a fact, collusion is still to be determined if it happened but this latest bombshell and the way Jr has been spinning and changing his story 3 times over is about as close as it has come. Collusion is still circumstantial, though, without solid evidence.

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## F-22Raptor

Gomig-21 said:


> I wouldn't be so sure. The definition of "treason," as outlined in the Constitution reads as follows:
> 
> _“Treason against the United States, shall consist *only* in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.”_
> 
> 
> 
> I never said it was the end of the story. But so far, it's all "potentially" criminal. We've yet to see anything that constitutes treason.
> 
> 
> 
> All potentially criminal.
> 
> 
> 
> That's where I think people like Kaine and a couple other Dem congressmen need to slow down and not throw that word out there. It's a bit premature to think treason. Treason is a very tight statute, many lawyers have come out and said that.
> 
> 
> 
> By the time Muller gets around to finding anything worthy of congressional hearings, then pressing charges, issuing indictments and subpoenas and if they can successfully get the POTUS for anything, it will be a long and very difficult process to impeach him. If they can't and don't impeach, Trump will pardon Jr, Kuchner and whomever else was in his party that might be found guilty of any crimes.
> 
> But so far, I think Russian meddling is a fact, collusion is still to be determined if it happened but this latest bombshell and the way Jr has been spinning and changing his story 3 times over is about as close as it has come. Collusion is still circumstantial, though, without solid evidence.



Trump Jr. was aware that the Russian government supported Trump. Thereby, he had the intention to acquire damaging information on Clinton, information Trump Jr. knew Russia would have acquired through espionage. Trump Jr. was a participant in Russia's overall effort to subvert and corrupt the US electoral process.

I also believe it's highly unlikely Russian intelligence was unaware of this meeting. They could have blackmailed Trump Jr., Manafort, and Kushner.

Maybe "intent" is not enough to indict on treason charges, but this meeting was highly unethical, arrogant, selfish, and anti-American. Then they've been caught lying over and over on Russia. Trump and his son are frauds.

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## F-22Raptor

All of these men are geniuses relative to the fraud currently in office. Can't wait for the post Trump era.


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## CBU-105




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## LA se Karachi



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## LA se Karachi

* Poll: Trump's six-month approval rating hits historic low *

*By  Rebecca Morin *07/16/2017

*



*
_Thirty-six percent of those surveyed approve of the president's job performance. | Getty_​President Donald Trump has hit the lowest approval rating of any president during their first six months in office in 70 years, according to a new ABC News/Washington Post poll.

Thirty-six percent of those surveyed approve of the president's job performance, which is six points down from his 100-day mark, while 58 percent disapprove of Trump's performance.

Gerald Ford was the last president to be near that mark in the poll half-a-year into his presidency, with a 39 percent approval rating in February 1975. At the six-month mark, both former Presidents Barack Obama and George W. Bush were at 59 percent.

In regards to Donald Trump Jr.'s meeting with a Russian lawyer aimed at getting information on Hillary Clinton during the 2016 election, 63 percent said his actions were inappropriate.

Sixty percent think Russia tried to influence the 2016 presidential race and 67 percent believe Trump aides helped them.

Trump Jr.'s meeting with Natalia Veselnitskaya, a politically-connected Russian lawyer whom the Trump team believed had damaging information on Clinton in June 2016, has stirred controversy for the White House.

In addition, 38 percent of those surveyed said Trump has not made significant progress toward his goals, with 55 percent thinking otherwise. Two-thirds of respondents also don't trust Trump to negotiate with world leaders on the U.S.'s behalf, specifically Russian leader Vladimir Putin, following the G-20 summit.

Just 27 percent said the U.S.'s world leadership has gotten stronger under Trump, while about half said it's gotten weaker.

The poll was conducted by landline and cell phone from July 10 to 13 in both English and Spanish among a random sample of 1,001 adults with a margin of error of 3.5 points.
_
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/16/trump-approval-rating-historic-low-240598_

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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> I don’t want to dampen your enthusiasm, my friend, but I cannot be happy as long as Trump is in the White House.




I understand. But honestly, life will go on. My life has barely changed since November. In blue states, we are mostly shielded from right-wing policies anyway.

While Trump is a bit embarrassing as President, his antics have made watching TV a lot fun. Late-night talk shows, political satire programs, and SNL are so much fun to watch again. Most of the country is laughing at him. In any case, we are more than halfway done with his first year in office. It's gone by pretty quickly.



RabzonKhan said:


> Though I’m happy for your party, Democrats have won some districts that voted for Trump, but I think the real test will be 2018 elections and I hope Democrats can retake the House, and sure that would be a great victory.




It's unlikely that Democrats can re-take the House in 2018, because of GOP gerrymandering. However, if Trump's popularity doesn't drastically improve between now and then, Democrats will make major gains. They can also pick up seats in the Senate, where every vote matters. Democrats can, however, flip many state chambers in 2018---if they run on the right economic policies.

2020 will be the real test, however. To those that dislike Trump the most, I say that they must vote to nominate a strong candidate who understands the needs of the working class this time, and appeals most to voters in Midwestern swing-states. The right candidate will have coattails that will help flip the Senate and allow Democrats to make huge gains in legislative chambers across the country.

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## Gomig-21

LA se Karachi said:


> To those that dislike Trump the most, I say that they must vote to nominate a strong candidate who understands the needs of the working class this time,



Very true. That's where Obama was strong and had leverage in both his campaigns. His campaign slogans were spot on to take advantage of the financial dilemma the country was facing, especially with the working class you mentioned and of course, minorities. The problem is, the current unemployment rate is at its lowest since 2009. If it stays this way or gets even lower, Dems will have a tough time in '18 and even '20. 

Yet to see if Repeal & Replace Obama Care succeeds. This could be the biggest test for the GOP in deciding the next elections.

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## Gothic

Donald Trump is not anti-semitic , he's just ignorant


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## F-22Raptor

So Trump and the Republicans attempt to repeal and replace Obamacare has failed again.

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## Gomig-21

F-22Raptor said:


> So Trump and the Republicans attempt to repeal and replace Obamacare has failed again.



They knew better than to put it for a vote a 2nd time around with the way things were going. 

Now Pence is pushing for just repealing it and then figure a new plan latter. I just don't understand how heartless they can be to just have millions of people lose their health care while they fight out another plan. That idea is much worst than the new plan. Just unfathomable.

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## F-22Raptor

Gomig-21 said:


> They knew better than to put it for a vote a 2nd time around with the way things were going.
> 
> Now Pence is pushing for just repealing it and then figure a new plan latter. I just don't understand how heartless they can be to just have millions of people lose their health care while they fight out another plan. That idea is much worst than the new plan. Just unfathomable.



Trump doesn't give a crap what it would do to the average American. The only thing he cares about is obtaining a "win" to boast about to his base. Screw the details...

I don't think Republicans would dare repeal a bill that would force 32 million off their health insurance. I know they voted for it in 2015, but they knew Obama would veto it. Those Repubs would be signing their death warrants.

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## F-22Raptor

Just read the interview Trump gave to the Times. He is simply a disgrace.

He warned Mueller not to look into his family's finances. That is obstruction of justice, and an impeachable offense.

He is an arrogant, delusional, narcissistic, sick man. He needs to undergo a psychological evaluation. I truly believe he has mental problems. 

He has no business being anywhere near the Oval Office.

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## KAL-EL

I'm wondering how Attorney General Sessions will rationalize staying in the job after having his legs cut out from under him so publicly.

Although the news only very recently broke, so I don't want to speak too soon. Jeff sessions might actually have some dignity and resign.

I also think it's ironic that Trump granted yet another interview to "the failing New York Times"

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## F-22Raptor

An why did Trump give the 'failing' and 'fake' New York Times an interview? Does that mean the interview is 'fake' news?

What a clown...



KAL-EL said:


> I'm wondering how Attorney General Sessions will rationalize staying in the job after having his legs cut out from under him so publicly.
> 
> Although the news only very recently broke, so I don't want to speak too soon. Jeff sessions might actually have some dignity and resign.
> 
> I also think it's ironic that Trump granted yet another interview to "the failing New York Times"



Trump tells so many lies, he literally can't keep them straight.

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## LA se Karachi



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## LA se Karachi

*Al Gore Breaks With Democratic Party Leadership to Support Single-Payer Healthcare*

*Eleanor Sheehan
*
*



*

A day after the Republican party’s effort to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act crumbled, Al Gore spoke at a community college in Manhattan, NY, about his new climate change movie. Completely unrelated to the documentary, however, Gore expressed his support for a single-payer healthcare system.

The Huffington Post first reported Gore’s comments during Tuesday’s event. Breaking with ranking Democrats like House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and Senator Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Gore told the audience that private health insurance has failed to provide accessible coverage for all Americans.

“The private sector has not shown any ability to provide good, affordable health care for all. I believe we ought to have single-payer health care,” Gore said at the event hosted by _The New York Times_.

As the GOP struggles — despite its Senate and House majority — to come to a consensus on an adequate bill to replace the ACA, some Democrats have gradually moved left and embraced a “Medicare for All” solution. Sen. Bernie Sanders campaigned on the platform and said he would introduce a single-payer bill when the GOP failed to repeal the ACA (he said this in early July).

Sanders’s push is gaining traction. A House Bill introduced by Rep. John Conyers predicated on a single-payer healthcare system now has the majority of House Democrats’ support. The bill has 115 cosponsors, including single-payer advocate and DNC Deputy Chair Rep. Keith Ellison.

Democratic Senators are also joining Sanders in endorsing single-payer. Sen. Elizabeth Warren said “the next step” was single-payer in June. Sen. Kristin Gillibrand has expressed support for single-payer and Sen. Kamala Harris offered a measured backing of the solution.

If the ACA does fail, as President Trump so hopes it does, the Democrats might have a viable option with single-payer — and a third of Americans back it according to a Pew Research Center study released in June (52% of registered Democrats support single-payer, too). It’s such a viable solution, in fact, that Republican Sen. Jerry Moran warned single-payer might happen if the GOP can’t find another way to repeal the ACA; he even said it was probable.

“If we leave the federal government in control of everyday healthcare decisions, it is more likely that our healthcare system will devolve into a single-payer system,” Sen. Moran said in his decision to oppose the GOP’s healthcare bill.

The Democratic Party leadership is reluctant to get on board with Medicare for All, but they may have no other choice and it would certainly help the party with its dwindling popularity and inability to counteract Trumpism.
_
http://fusion.kinja.com/al-gore-breaks-with-democratic-party-leadership-to-supp-1797040928_

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## LA se Karachi

*In 47 states, a smaller part of the population now approves of Trump than voted for him*


By Philip Bump

Donald Trump eked his way into the White House last fall on the strength of 78,000 votes in three states. He lost the popular vote by about two percentage points, earning the support of just under 46 percent of voters who cast a ballot.

Since Nov. 8, polling has consistently shown that an even smaller percentage of the country thinks the president is doing a good job. The most recent weekly approval rating average from Gallup, for example, has Trump at 39 percent approval — seven percentage points lower than the support he got at the ballot box.

On Monday, Gallup offered a more detailed set of data. Using interviews conducted over Trump’s first six months in office — during which his approval slipped slightly nationally — Gallup determined the average approval in each of the 50 states.

In 17 states Trump’s approval rating was at or above 50 percent. In 31 states, more people disapproved of his job performance than approved.






Unsurprisingly, those states that view Trump positively are also among those that supported him the most during last year’s election. Some states stick out, though: Texas, where Trump is viewed net negatively; and Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, the three states that gave him that crucial 78,000-vote margin of victory.

It’s worth noting that in 47 of the states, Trump’s approval rating is now below the percentage of the vote he received. The three exceptions: Hawaii, Utah and Montana.






Those exceptions give a hint of what’s going on. Utah was unusually lukewarm about Trump’s candidacy, compared with other Republican states, and Hawaii was fervently opposed to Trump. The former case was a reversion to the norm; the latter, a nowhere-to-go-but-up situation.

The more important factor here is that Gallup’s approval polling samples all adults, while voting results are, obviously, just those people who went to the polls. In other words, a lot of people dislike Trump who probably won’t go to the polls in 2020.

_https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ion-now-approves-of-trump-than-voted-for-him/_

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## RabzonKhan

*Jared Kushner just threw Donald Trump Jr. under the bus. Bigly.*

By Greg Sargent 7/24/2017

*Opinion* 

Presidential son-in-law Jared Kushner is set to testify before the Senate Intelligence Committee this morning, and what is striking about his extensive opening statement is the degree to which it seeks to insulate Kushner himself from any culpability or responsibility for the problematic _known_ facts about the Russia affair — particularly the known facts that concern Donald Trump Jr.

Kushner’s statement takes exceptional care to separate him, with scalpel-like precision, from the now-notorious meeting that Trump Jr. arranged with a Russian lawyer — a meeting that Trump Jr. had been informed would furnish the Trump campaign with information about Hillary Clinton supplied by the Russian government. Here is what Kushner’s statement says about the meeting (emphasis added):

In June 2016, my brother-in-law, Donald Trump Jr. asked if I was free to stop by a meeting on June 9 at 3:00 p.m. The campaign was headquartered in the same building as his office in Trump Tower, and it was common for each of us to swing by the other’s meetings when requested. *He eventually sent me his own email changing the time of the meeting to 4:00 p.m. That email was on top of a long back and forth that I did not read at the time.* As I did with most emails when I was working remotely, I quickly reviewed on my iPhone the relevant message that the meeting would occur at 4:00 PM at his office. Documents confirm my memory that this was calendared as “Meeting: Don Jr.| Jared Kushner.” No one else was mentioned.

*I arrived at the meeting a little late. When I got there, the person who has since been identified as a Russian attorney was talking about the issue of a ban on U.S. adoptions of Russian children.* I had no idea why that topic was being raised and quickly determined that my time was not well-spent at this meeting. Reviewing emails recently confirmed my memory that the meeting was a waste of our time and that, in looking for a polite way to leave and get back to my work, I actually emailed an assistant from the meeting after I had been there for ten or so minutes and wrote “Can u pls call me on my cell? Need excuse to get out of meeting.”

I had not met the attorney before the meeting nor spoken with her since. I thought nothing more of this short meeting until it came to my attention recently. I did not read or recall this email exchange before it was shown to me by my lawyers when reviewing documents for submission to the committees. *No part of the meeting I attended included anything about the campaign*, there was no follow up to the meeting that I am aware of, I do not recall how many people were there (or their names), and *I have no knowledge of any documents being offered or accepted.* Finally, after seeing the email, I disclosed this meeting prior to it being reported in the press on a supplement to my security clearance form, even if that was not required as meeting the definitions of the form.

It’s not entirely clear that the “long back and forth” that Kushner claims he “did not read at the time” is the email chain that Trump Jr. released, under duress, which demonstrated that the meeting was taken with the express purpose of getting information advertised as coming from the Russian government. But it seems clear that this is what he is referring to. Note that Kushner does not say one way or the other whether he had been sent this email chain before. What we do know, however, is that Kushner says he never read it. And if Kushner is to be believed, he agreed to, and showed up at, this meeting without having any idea why it was being held.

This, even though Trump Jr. was quite excited about what this meeting might yield (“I love it,” Trump Jr. exulted in the email chain), and even though Trump’s then-campaign chair Paul Manafort was also present. This was a meeting attended by Trump’s top brain trust, on the expectation that it would yield greatly damaging information about Trump’s opponent, just as the campaign was shifting into general election mode — but Kushner was unaware of its purpose.

Also note the exceptional care that went into Kushner’s characterization of the meeting. He claims he arrived just late enough to miss the incriminating part of the meeting. Trump Jr. admitted in his second statement that the Russian lawyer brought up the campaign (after an initial statement claiming the meeting was just about Russian adoptions):

After pleasantries were exchanged, the woman stated that she had information that individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Ms. Clinton.

Kushner’s statement _does not deny outright_ either that the meeting did address the campaign or that any documents had been offered to the Trump camp, which the email chain appears to confirm. All it does is insulate Kushner from those facts.

It is certainly possible that Kushner’s account is accurate. But these things are now investigable: Efforts can be made to determine whether Kushner had been told of, or discussed, the purpose of the meeting beforehand, and to determine whether he arrived just late enough to miss the part of the meeting that concerned the campaign.

But whatever the truth turns out to be on those fronts, what Kushner’s statement _does not_ do is contest any of the known facts about that meeting — known facts that are deeply problematic for Trump Jr. and even for Trump himself. The meeting, at a minimum, shows that Trump Jr. was eager to collude with the Russian government, which, he had been told, was trying to get his father elected president. Kushner’s statement denies any collusion on _his own_ part, and claims no _awareness_ of any other collusion:

I did not collude, nor know of anyone else in the campaign who colluded, with any foreign government.

Of course, what Trump Jr.’s email chain showed is that the campaign _jumped at the chance_ to collude, even if it ended up not happening at that meeting. Recall that Trump Jr.’s original statement covered up the real reason for the meeting, and that President Trump himself reportedly signed off on that initial false statement, which means the president actively participated in an effort to mislead the country about his own campaign’s eagerness to collude with Russia to help him win. Kushner’s statement offers nothing to challenge these underlying facts. It just separates him from them. *Link*





gambit said:


> Trump does not care, and aside from coastal Americans, the rest of the America also does not care.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disregard the spikes. Trump campaigned in the states that are *BETWEEN* the spikes. The result is Trump won.
> 
> Your definition of 'decent Americans' most likely are those in the spikes, and like it or not, that is not representative of the US. The American electoral system is rigged to favor the states, not the general population, and that is the biggest misconception foreigners have of US. Trump is not an intellectual man, but neither is he stupid. Between him and his advisors, they devised a campaign strategy that targeted states, not population count.
> 
> So even though personally, I despised Trump, I am saying you are making a big mistake in underestimating Trump, just like so many have,


I think you got me wrong there, I believe majority of Trump supporters are decent people, unfortunately, they voted for him despite what he is. They voted for him because they were angry with the political class and brought into his lies that as an outsider only he can fix things. He is a good damn liar.

No, I don’t underestimate him. I agree with you it will be a mistake to underestimate him, we like it or not, with the disastrous six-months, he still has his base very much intact, and there is no widespread voter’s remorse so far.



LA se Karachi said:


> I understand. But honestly, life will go on. My life has barely changed since November. In blue states, we are mostly shielded from right-wing policies anyway.
> 
> While Trump is a bit embarrassing as President, his antics have made watching TV a lot fun. Late-night talk shows, political satire programs, and SNL are so much fun to watch again. Most of the country is laughing at him. In any case, we are more than halfway done with his first year in office. It's gone by pretty quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's unlikely that Democrats can re-take the House in 2018, because of GOP gerrymandering. However, if Trump's popularity doesn't drastically improve between now and then, Democrats will make major gains. They can also pick up seats in the Senate, where every vote matters. Democrats can, however, flip many state chambers in 2018---if they run on the right economic policies.
> 
> 2020 will be the real test, however. To those that dislike Trump the most, I say that they must vote to nominate a strong candidate who understands the needs of the working class this time, and appeals most to voters in Midwestern swing-states. The right candidate will have coattails that will help flip the Senate and allow Democrats to make huge gains in legislative chambers across the country.


My life is good, in less than eight years, I became an American citizen, bought my house, and just recently started a new business, I’ll say, all in all, so far so good.

But my fear, you never know, but that can change because we have a very unstable man in the White House, he is a walking talking disaster. To make my point let me give you an example, remember George Bush, how he dragged us into a totally useless war in Iraq, so far that war has cost us more than 2 trillion and some studies show that it can cost us over 6 trillion in the next four decades. The consequence of that stupid war is that we are still stuck in Afghanistan, the damn, terrorist Taliban are as stronger as ever and Al Qaeda is regaining strength again and terrorist ISIS is another disastrous outcome of that useless war.

Trillions of dollars wasted on the war could have been spent on the infrastructure, that means more jobs more prosperity and....maybe, maybe the white men with no college degree would not be so angry. 

I agree with the rest of your post.

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## F-22Raptor

Trump had a nervous breakdown again on Twitter this morning.

It's looks like he's attempting to lay the groundwork to firing Mueller. That would be catastrophic for Trump. He's a mentally ill man with no moral compass whatsoever. His final day in office can't come soon enough.

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## RabzonKhan

In 26 hours, 29 BS (excuse my French) claims!







*Analysis | 26 hours, 29 Trumpian false or misleading claims *

*The Washington Post Glenn Kessler, Michelle Ye Hee Lee 7/26/2017*

In a period of less than 26 hours — from 6:31 p.m. on July 24 to 8:09 p.m. on July 25 — President Trump made two fired-up speeches, held a news conference and tweeted with abandon, leaving a trail of misinformation in his wake. Here’s a roundup of his suspect claims.

*National Scout Jamboree at Glen Jean, W.Va., 6:31 p.m. EST, July 24, 2017*

“19th Boy Scout Jamboree, wow, and to address such a tremendous group. Boy, you have a lot of people here. The press will say it’s about 200 people. It looks like about 45,000 people. You set a record today. You set a record. That’s a great honor, believe me.”

The figure of 45,000 is not official but if so, that would not be a record. The most-attended single-site jamboree was held in 1964, in Valley Forge, Pa., with 50,960 attendees. In 1973, the jamboree was held in two sites, in Idaho and Pennsylvania, for a total of 73,610 attendees. (Those are raw numbers. In terms of percentage of Boy Scouts attending, 2010 holds the record.) At last count, 26,000 Scouts were expected at the 2017 event, suggesting it would fall well short of the record.

“Our stock market has picked up — since the election November 8th. Do we remember that date? Was that a beautiful date? What a date.”

*Trump equates the rise of the stock market since the election as a demonstration of a good economy. But the stock market had already been rising for years before he was elected — and he called it “a big, fat, ugly bubble.”*

“And you know we have a tremendous disadvantage in the Electoral College — popular vote is much easier.”

According to a tally by John Pitney of Claremont McKenna College, every Republican president since Rutherford B. Hayes in 1876 won a larger share of the electoral college votes than Trump, with the exception of George W. Bush (twice) and Nixon in 1968.

“We had the best jobs report in 16 years. The stock market on a daily basis is hitting an all-time high.”

Trump appears to referring to the fact that the unemployment rate was 4.4 percent in June, which is a 16-year low. (This was a slight increase from 4.3 percent in May.) The unemployment rate was 4.8 percent in January, when Trump took office — and when he campaigned for president he routinely said the unemployment numbers were phony and were actually as high as 42 percent. (The actual jobs report was nothing special, with fewer jobs created than in June 2016.) As we noted, during the campaign Trump often said the stock market was in “a big, fat, ugly bubble.” Now he celebrates its continued rise.

*“And very soon, Rick, we will be an energy exporter. Isn’t that nice — an energy exporter? In other words, we’ll be selling our energy instead of buying it from everybody all over the globe.”

The United States is already exporting energy, and has exported more than it has imported since 2015. *Led by the hydraulic fracturing techniques, the United States and the rest of the world have been in the midst of an energy revolution that began nearly 15 years ago. Saudi Arabia leads the world with one-fifth of the world’s oil reserves.

*Twitter, through the night and into morning*



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/889672374458646528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/889673743873843200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/889675644396867584
The Washington Post is owned by Jeffrey P. Bezos, the founder of Amazon. Amazon does not own The Post, but in any case the president’s claims about “no-tax” Amazon are out of date. Amazon used to lobby to keep Internet sales free from state taxes, but no more. As of March, Amazon is collecting sales tax on purchases in every state that has one.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/889788202172780544
Trump is referring to efforts by a Ukrainian-American operative to expose former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort’s ties to the Russian government. But the comparison to the Russian probe is overblown and facile, making a similar criminal probe problematic.

One fundamental difference is that Ukraine is considered a U.S. ally, and Russia is considered an adversary. Moreover, U.S. intelligence officials found a top-down effort, initiated by Russian President Vladimir Putin, to illegally hack and release information in a deliberate attempt to meddle in the U.S. election and undermine the democratic system. There is no such evidence of a top-down effort in the Ukrainian case.

Instead, a Ukrainian American Democratic operative named Alexandra Chalupa began looking into Manafort’s ties to Viktor Yanukovych, a former pro-Russia president of Ukraine, as a part of her volunteer work in 2014. She apparently received some guidance from the Ukrainian Embassy in order to locate public documents. That’s entirely different from state-sponsored illegal hacking. There’s also no evidence that the DNC used information gathered by Chalupa or that the Ukrainians coordinated opposition research with the DNC. *Read more*

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## RabzonKhan

During the election:







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/742771576039460864

And now:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/890193981585444864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/890196164313833472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/890197095151546369
What a lying hypocrite, during the election he was waving their rainbow flag, pretending to be pro-LGBT, promising them that “I will fight for you” and now, he’s showing his true colors, but it does not surprise me at all.

Anyone who is capable and wants to join the Armed Forces should not be discriminated because of their race, creed or sexual orientation, period.





Here are some interesting facts:

*Transgender people are twice as likely as the general population to serve in the military*

*Eliza Relman*
*Business InsiderJuly 26, 2017*

President Trump announced on Wednesday a new policy barring trans people from serving "in any capacity" in the military and claiming that their service creates "tremendous medical costs and disruption."' data-reactid="22">President Trump announced on Wednesday a new policy barring trans people from serving "in any capacity" in the military and claiming that their service creates "tremendous medical costs and disruption."

*But about one-fifth of the transgender population in the US are veterans of the military — meaning that transgender people serve in the military at approximately twice the rate of the general population, according to a 2014 report by researchers at the UCLA School of Law.* 

*There are approximately 15,500 transgender people on active duty or serving in the Guard or Reserve forces and 134,300 veterans or retired Guard or Reserve members, according to the 2014 data.*

*8,800 of those serving are on active duty.* 

These numbers were determined by the National Transgender Discrimination Survey (NTDS), conducted by the advocacy groups the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and the National Center for Transgender Equality, and reported in the UCLA study.

*The UCLA study found that around 20% of transgender people enlist in the military, compared to around 10% for the general population.* 

Trans military members give a wide range of reasons for their decision to enlist, according to an LA Times article exploring the issue in 2015. Some said they joined the military with the hopes of gaining financial security and community support that they had difficulty finding elsewhere. Others said they used their military service as an escape from pressures to conform within their communities.

There is insufficient research to support any general theories about why transgender Americans disproportionately enlist. 

In July 2016, former President Barack Obama lifted a ban on trans individuals from serving openly in the military. The implementation of the new policy was delayed for a year. But on Wednesday, President Donald Trump reversed Obama's decision.

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> What a lying hypocrite, during the election he was waving their rainbow flag, pretending to be pro-LGBT, promising them that “I will fight for you” and now, he’s showing his true colors, but it does not surprise me at all.



The cartoon says it all, liar liar pants on fire. Everyone knows politicians lie to get elected, but this guy has taken it to another level.

The in-fighting is getting really good, though. With Scaramuchi in now to control all the leaking coming out and exposing all this good stuff, things might heat up to a new level. He's already called out Ryan Priebus for all the leaks which is an indication that there is some serious tension inside the White House.

The big bombshell with Scaramuchi is what he said on CNN today, that there are several people in the WH who think that Trump is not fit to run the country. Even if the context of what he was saying was that these people need to be either gotten rid of or they need to be replaced with people who are more loyal is irrelevant. It just shows the major in-fighting that is going on and that people within the administration are saying he's unfit?! Wow!

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## LA se Karachi

*
BREAKING: The Senate has dealt a devastating setback to the Republican efforts to repeal Obamacare, defeating a GOP "skinny repeal" bill early Friday morning.

Sens. John McCain, Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins joined with Democrats to oppose the measure.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/27/politics/health-care-debate-thursday/index.html


1:31 a.m. *
_
_
_FLASH GOP BILL FAILS in senate. McCaine, Murkowski, Collins nos. chamber gasped as McCain voted._
_

— Lisa Desjardins (@LisaDNews) July 28, 2017

_
*Update 1:16 a.m.*
_

WOW, this appears over. McCain just spoke w Schumer, 13 Dem senators in huddle. Put hands up. McConnell seems to have left floor temp.


— Lisa Desjardins (@LisaDNews) July 28, 2017

_
*Update 1:02 a.m.*_ 

The Senate floor has stalled. Outside the Capitol, NewsHour’s Josh Barajas reports, protesters are chanting: “John McCain, do the right thing!” 


SEE BELOW. TUCSON, THE GOP HAS A PROBLEM. @VP pence has been talking to McCain since 12:43 p ET. Amazing. https://t.co/sNj81fIcc0


— Lisa Desjardins (@LisaDNews) July 28, 2017


Here's that bipartisan McCain huddle with several Dem's smiling – pic.twitter.com/vVGZb35uy7


— Travis (@tcd004) July 28, 2017_

*http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/senate-debates-skinny-repeal-affordable-care-act/





*

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## F-22Raptor

Looks like the GOP's plan to repeal and replace Obamacare is dead. Trump probably just had a heart attack.

Proud of McCain for doing the right thing. The GOP's "plans" were utter garbage from the get go.

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## LA se Karachi

F-22Raptor said:


> Looks like the GOP's plan to repeal and replace Obamacare is dead. Trump probably just had a heart attack.



Watching McConnell's reaction was even more funny.


F-22Raptor said:


> Proud of McCain for doing the right thing. The GOP's "plans" were utter garbage from the get go.



Glad to know that there are still some GOP Senators with a conscience and a brain. The CBO predicted that 16 million Americans would lose their health insurance, and that premiums would rise by an average of 20% each year under the GOP healthcare plan.

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## KAL-EL

F-22Raptor said:


> Looks like the GOP's plan to repeal and replace Obamacare is dead. Trump probably just had a heart attack.
> 
> Proud of McCain for doing the right thing. The GOP's "plans" were utter garbage from the get go.




There are a lot of people in this country with pre-existing conditions and/or have to rely on Medicaid because they have a physical or mental disability that makes them unable to work who are breathing a huge sigh of relief right now.

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## ChineseTiger1986

F-22Raptor said:


> Trump had a nervous breakdown again on Twitter this morning.
> 
> It's looks like he's attempting to lay the groundwork to firing Mueller. That would be catastrophic for Trump. He's a mentally ill man with no moral compass whatsoever. His final day in office can't come soon enough.



Why hating him so much? He is making the US a big soap opera everyday which is fun to watch.

You won't have a President with a such high rating on the viewership in the coming decades.


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## F-22Raptor

KAL-EL said:


> There are a lot of people in this country with pre-existing conditions and/or have to rely on Medicaid because they have a physical or mental disability that makes them unable to work who are breathing a huge sigh of relief right now.



The sick part of all of this is that Trump didn't care what came across his desk, just as long as it was a "win."

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## KAL-EL

F-22Raptor said:


> The sick part of all of this is that Trump didn't care what came across his desk, just as long as it was a "win."



And I'm sure you remember Trump promising over and over again not to mess with Medicaid while he was campaigning.

Yet another promise he went back on.

He essentially said what everybody wanted to hear on just about everything.

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## F-22Raptor

The satisfaction I'm feeling right now knowing that Trump probably chucked his TV out the window is orgasmic. What a great day to be an American.

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## LA se Karachi

KAL-EL said:


> There are a lot of people in this country with pre-existing conditions and/or have to rely on Medicaid because they have a physical or mental disability that makes them unable to work who are breathing a huge sigh of relief right now.




Don't forget about the employer mandate part of the bill. It's not a nice feeling knowing that your employer no longer _has_ to offer health insurance, even if it almost certainly still will. Not everyone has the luxury of working for a good company, like we do.

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## Raphael

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Why hating him so much? He is making the US a big soap opera everyday which is fun to watch.
> 
> You won't have a President with a such high rating on the viewership in the coming decades.



Strange to me as well. @F-22Raptor is one of those neocons who want to see American hegemony continue, until all nonwhites across the world are squirming and toiling under the white man's boot. Trump can only expedite that dream, no?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Raphael said:


> Strange to me as well. @F-22Raptor is one of those neocons who want to see American hegemony continue, until all nonwhites across the world are squirming and toiling under the white man's boot. Trump can only expedite that dream, no?



After voting him, and they now all suddenly want Clinton to be the POTUS.

Those Americans are really difficult to be compromised.

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## KAL-EL

LA se Karachi said:


> Don't forget about the employer mandate part of the bill. It's not a nice feeling knowing that your employer no longer _has_ to offer health insurance, even if it almost certainly still will. Not everyone has the luxury of working for a good company, like we do.



Very true! But I specifically focused on the Medicaid part of all this because I personally know of someone who is on Medicaid because he was hurt badly on the job, and can no longer earn an income

If it wasn't for Medicaid, he would be bankrupt by now with all the medical bills he would be receiving.

To be blunt, he was scared to death that he would be cut off.. it was literally affecting his mental health because his anxiety was going through the roof constantly worrying about it.

I'm fairly sure most of us have personal connections to people like that. Or at least people who are in similar type of situations.

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## LA se Karachi

KAL-EL said:


> Very true! But I specifically focused on the Medicaid part of all this because I personally know of someone who is on Medicaid because he was hurt badly on the job, and can no longer earn an income
> 
> If it wasn't for Medicaid, he would be bankrupt by now with all the medical bills he would be receiving.
> 
> To be blunt, he was scared to death that he would be cut off.. it was literally affecting his mental health because his anxiety was going through the roof constantly worrying about it.
> 
> I'm fairly sure most of us have personal connections to people like that. Or at least people who are in similar type of situations.



Ya, there's no doubt that Medicaid would essentially be gutted, and that people with pre-existing conditions would not be eligible for insurance.

But I also find it reprehensible that employers with dozens of employees would no longer be required to offer insurance to people who are working full time. That's just not fair. The government can take care of those who are injured or incapable of working. But it shouldn't have to step in for those that are working full time.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> After voting him, and they now all suddenly want Clinton to be the POTUS.
> 
> Those Americans are really difficult to be compromised.



No, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are incredibly unpopular. In fact, Hillary is even more unpopular than Trump. Actually, most Americans don't want either to be President. It's sad that they weren't given better choices in the general election. Now look where we are....

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## KAL-EL

LA se Karachi said:


> Ya, there's no doubt that Medicaid would essentially be gutted, and that people with pre-existing conditions would not be eligible for insurance.
> 
> But I also find it reprehensible that employers with dozens of employees would no longer be required to offer insurance to people who are working full time. That's just not fair. The government can take care of those who are injured or incapable of working. But it shouldn't have to step in for those that are working full time.
> 
> 
> 
> No, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are incredibly unpopular. In fact, Hillary is even more unpopular than Trump. Actually, most Americans don't want either to be President. It's sad that they weren't given better choices in the general election. Now look where we are....



I concur with everything you said. People working full-time should not be penalized either and should not have to worry that their employer might not have to provide a health insurance option.

Regarding your response to the other member about Hillary Clinton. Him assuming that now all of a sudden Americans want Clinton just because of this event is a giant leap in non logic and makes no sense.

But then, I have the feeling his comment was at least based in subtle stealth trolling.

And to this day, most Americans don't want either as president. I know I sure as hell didn't want either of them as president.

I don't have to tell you that obviously when most people went into that voting booth, they essentially were choosing the lesser of two evils in their mind.

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## LA se Karachi

KAL-EL said:


> I concur with everything you said. People working full-time should not be penalized either and should not have to worry that their employer might not have to provide a health insurance option.



Yes. To be clear, most employers will provide adequate health insurance, with or without a mandate. However, some less-reputable employers may not. It's not right that anyone working full-time should not have the option of purchasing health insurance through their employer.


KAL-EL said:


> And to this day, most Americans don't want either as president. I know I sure as hell didn't want either of them as president.



Correct. They are essentially just as equally unpopular.


KAL-EL said:


> But then, I have the feeling his comment was at least based in some stealth anti-American trolling.



Probably. But either way, his comment made no sense.


KAL-EL said:


> I don't have to tell you that obviously when most people went into that voting booth, they essentially were choosing the lesser of two evils in their mind.



No doubt, and I certainly don't blame people for voting for Hillary Clinton in the general election over this disastrous mess.

But that's why I said a over a year ago that the primaries really matter. You cannot vote for an unpopular candidate like Hillary Clinton in the primary (or not vote at all) and expect everyone to hold their noses and vote for her in the general election---especially in Midwestern swing-states. You have to select strong candidates, or you might get people like Trump in the White House.

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## Vergennes

@LA se Karachi @KAL-EL @F-22Raptor 

As I see,there's lot of daily fun in the US,with the super twitter President. 

(It's pretty sad actually,but thankfully the Americans and their institutions are strong!  )

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## LA se Karachi

Vergennes said:


> @LA se Karachi @KAL-EL @F-22Raptor
> 
> As I see,there's lot of daily fun in the US,with the super twitter President.
> 
> (It's pretty sad actually,but thankfully the Americans and their institutions are strong!  )



America will be fine. I just hope that both parties learn from the mistakes they made in 2016. Especially the Democratic Party, or we might have to put up with eight years of Donald Trump.

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## Gomig-21

LA se Karachi said:


> Watching McConnell's reaction was even more funny.
> 
> 
> Glad to know that there are still some GOP Senators with a conscience and a brain. The CBO predicted that 16 million Americans would lose their health insurance, and that premiums would rise by an average of 20% each year under the GOP healthcare plan.



You wonder if Lindsey Graham and especially good ol' John McCain will become pariahs within the Republican party because of this defeated skinny vote. Susan Collins was always against this health care bill from the start and doubtful her position will be affected. The other two, however, and especially McCain have always been staunch Republicans and to see them smiling and working with the Democrats in this age of ultimate bipartisanship might not bode well for them. That was true governance and neat to watch because they didn't vote based on party lines and to secure their seats in their next elections, they voted on principle. Good for them. I don't think either of those two have to worry about their seats, least of all McCain, but now they'll have to deal with the abusive and bashing remarks that will come from the head chief when he speaks at his next rally. Who knows, maybe it'll be in front of a bunch of 3-4 year-old toddlers at the Day-Care Convention.

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## Gomig-21

Submariner said:


> McCain disappointed me when he returned to vote to advance the debate, to be honest I was sure he'd vote on each repeal or replace measure. True, he's always voted to advance a debate and I admire that about him. Regardless of whether or not he agrees with a bill, he at least wants to talk about it. But the brutal irony of his bout with cancer and trying to strip millions of their health care was a bitter pill for me to swallow.
> 
> I'm very happy with him this morning though. Woke up to news the Skinny Repeal failed... thanks to McCain. Still, the fight goes on and I hope, likely in vain, that Republicans will drop this stupid obsession with ending the ACA and focus on making it more stable. Fix, don't replace the damn thing for Christ's sake.



Couldn't agree more. Well said.

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## LA se Karachi

Gomig-21 said:


> You wonder if Lindsey Graham and especially good ol' John McCain will become pariahs within the Republican party because of this defeated skinny vote.



Graham is indeed a bit of a pariah because of his willingness to cross party-lines. He also threatened Trump earlier this week when he was asked about Sessions and Mueller. I believe he voted for the bill, however.

It was Lisa Murkowski of Alaska that voted against the bill and prevented it from passing. She's been a bit more independent ever since the Sarah Palin-endorsed Joe Miller defeated her in the Republican Primary in 2010. She won the general election decisively, however, when she chose to run as a write-in candidate.



Gomig-21 said:


> Susan Collins was always against this health care bill from the start and doubtful her position will be affected.



Correct. She comes from a Democratic-leaning state (Maine), and she should become more popular as result of her vote.



Gomig-21 said:


> The other two, however, and especially McCain have always been staunch Republicans and to see them smiling and working with the Democrats in this age of ultimate bipartisanship might not bode well for them. That was true governance and neat to watch because they didn't vote based on party lines and to secure their seats in their next elections, they voted on principle. Good for them. I don't think either of those two have to worry about their seats, least of all McCain...



Yes, it was quite nice. McCain definitely won't have to worry about his seat, if he is able to run again in 2022. His state also became more Democratic in 2016. Trump won it by only about 3.5%.



Gomig-21 said:


> but now they'll have to deal with the abusive and bashing remarks that will come from the head chief when he speaks at his next rally.



No doubt. A man who bashed McCain's service and capture in the Vietnam War has no morals. He will probably make remark about McCain, despite McCain's brain cancer.

Not that they care, I'm sure.



Gomig-21 said:


> Who knows, maybe it'll be in front of a bunch of 3-4 year-old toddlers at the Day-Care Convention.



Have to start the indoctrination early, right?

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## AMDR

2020 is going to be an absolute bloodbath.

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## T-72

interesting conversation/interview.

@Nilgiri @LA se Karachi @Gomig-21 @Submariner (sorry didn't realize you're Sven earlier) etc

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## RabzonKhan

Really freaking funny, not only is Scaramucci, Trump’s new communication director, vulgar as hell like his boss, but it seems he is even an expert in Trump’s hand gesture, what a damn fake.

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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> Really freaking funny, not only is Scaramucci, Trump’s new communication director, vulgar as hell like his boss, but it seems he is even an expert in Trump’s hand gesture, what a damn fake.



He's gone:

*Anthony Scaramucci removed as White House communications director*
_http://www.cbsnews.com/news/anthony...-role-as-white-house-communications-director/_
_Who will be next? _* *

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## RabzonKhan

Breaking News, Anthony Scaramucci out after brief, turbulent stint at White House.

President Trump removed newly appointed White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci Monday, just over a week after the president had hired him to help force out chief of staff Reince Priebus.
The stunning move came just hours after Mr. Trump swore in his new chief of staff, retired Gen. John F. Kelly, former Homeland Security secretary. *Link*

And yet, we’re supposed to believe that there is no chaos in the White House!

@LA se Karachi, oops, you already posted it.

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## Gomig-21

LA se Karachi said:


> He's gone:
> 
> *Anthony Scaramucci removed as White House communications director*
> _Who will be next? _* *



You mean Sean Spicer was actually right about this guy? No way!

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> The cartoon says it all, liar liar pants on fire. Everyone knows politicians lie to get elected, but this guy has taken it to another level.
> 
> The in-fighting is getting really good, though. With Scaramuchi in now to control all the leaking coming out and exposing all this good stuff, things might heat up to a new level. He's already called out Ryan Priebus for all the leaks which is an indication that there is some serious tension inside the White House.
> 
> The big bombshell with Scaramuchi is what he said on CNN today, that there are several people in the WH who think that Trump is not fit to run the country. Even if the context of what he was saying was that these people need to be either gotten rid of or they need to be replaced with people who are more loyal is irrelevant. It just shows the major in-fighting that is going on and that people within the administration are saying he's unfit?! Wow!


I am not surprised at all, and can we blame them for not taking him seriously, I mean, there is no doubt the man is unfit to be the president of this great Nation.

The chaos and infighting was inevitable, one just have to look at who’s who in the White House, on one hand, you have far right-wing white extremist like Bannon and Gorka pushing their extremist agenda, Reince Priebus was most probably more loyal to the Republican party than to Trump and then you have Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner, who is also one of his advisers, according to the Federal election commission records, he has contributed $101,950 to Democratic campaigns and committees since 1999, he also contributed $ 2,000 to Hillary Clinton’s 2000 campaign for U.S. Senate election and contributed $ 4,000 to the committee supporting then Sen Clinton in 2003. *Link*

In short, white house is a mess!

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## F-22Raptor

What a circus this administration is!

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> one just have to look at who’s who in the White House, on one hand,



Replace White House with Animal House.

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## KAL-EL

Count Vlad Dracula for stealth president 2020!

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## F-22Raptor

Trump dictated son’s misleading statement on meeting with Russian lawyer

On the sidelines of the Group of 20 summit in Germany last month, President Trump’s advisers discussed how to respond to a new revelation that Trump’s oldest son had met with a Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign — a disclosure the advisers knew carried political and potentially legal peril. 

The strategy, the advisers agreed, should be for Donald Trump Jr. to release a statement to get ahead of the story. They wanted to be truthful, so their account couldn’t be repudiated later if the full details emerged.

But within hours, at the president’s direction, the plan changed.

Flying home from Germany on July 8 aboard Air Force One, Trump personally dictated a statement in which Trump Jr. said that he and the Russian lawyer had “primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children” when they met in June 2016, according to multiple people with knowledge of the deliberations. The statement, issued to the New York Times as it prepared an article, emphasized that the subject of the meeting was “not a campaign issue at the time.”

The claims were later shown to be misleading.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...eb7d3a2d304_story.html?utm_term=.b3fba1740221


Here's further evidence of Trump's attempt to lie to and mislead the American people, and obstruct the Russia investigation. What are you hiding Donnie?

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## F-22Raptor

Trump's approval rating has dropped to 33%, a new low.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trumps-...-new-low/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=40500788

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## RabzonKhan

Closer and closer!








*Mueller impanels grand jury in Russia probe: report
*
BY BRANDON CARTER - 08/03/17

Special counsel Robert Mueller has reportedly impaneled a grand jury in Washington as part of the ongoing investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 presidential election, The Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.

*Such a move would signal that the investigation is growing and entering a new phase. The special counsel is looking into Russia's efforts to influence the election and any ties between President Trump's campaign and Moscow.*

Mueller’s spokesman declined to comment to the newspaper, while White House special counsel Ty Cobb said he was unaware of the new development.

“Grand jury matters are typically secret. The White House favors anything that accelerates the conclusion of his work fairly," Cobb told the Journal. "The White House is committed to fully cooperating with Mr. Mueller."

The grand jury, located in Washington, D.C., follows a separate grand jury previously convened in Alexandria, Va., by federal prosecutors investigating former national security adviser Michael Flynn.

*The news follows efforts from some in Congress to protect Mueller from Trump and his administration’s ability to fire him.*

*Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Cory Booker (D-N.J.) introduced a bill on Monday that would require the Justice Department to seek a request from a federal judge before firing Mueller or any other special counsel. *

*"Our bill allows judicial review of any decision to terminate a special counsel to make sure it’s done for the reasons cited in the regulation rather than political motivation. I think this will serve the country well," Graham said in a statement.*

Booker added that special counsel should never be subjected to "interference or intimidation because of where an investigation takes them."

*Mueller continues to expand the team investigating Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election with the addition of former Justice Department official Greg Andres, who became the 16th lawyer to join Mueller’s team. Andres previously worked in the Justice Department’s criminal division.*

*Trump has ratcheted up attacks on Mueller as the investigation proceeds. In an interview with The New York Times in July, Trump warned Mueller against investigating his family’s finances. *

“I think that’s a violation. Look, this is about Russia,” Trump told The Times.

Trump also argued that Mueller has hired “Hillary Clinton supporters” and is good friends with former FBI Director James Comey.

“Well he’s very, very good friends with Comey. Which is very bothersome,” Trump told Fox News. “We’re going to have to see. But there has been no obstruction, there has been no collusion. There has been leaking by Comey. And virtually everyone agrees on that.”

“The people who have been hired are all Hillary Clinton supporters,” he said. “Some of them worked for Hillary Clinton. I mean the whole thing is ridiculous if you want to know the truth from that standpoint."

Trump’s own legal team has reportedly been looking into Mueller’s team for potential conflicts of interest to potentially undermine or discredit the investigation.

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## RabzonKhan

Today’s headline news, Pres Trump announced a new immigration policy. What a joke,
first, it is a Republican (remember, “the swamp”) immigration policy (I can bet, Trump did not even read) he has borrowed, just like he borrowed their health care plan, now one wonders, does he even have anything of his own, remember, throughout the campaign he used to refer to Republican politicians as swamp and now he has no problem borrowing their health and immigration plans, SAD.

Second, this is all cheap gimmicks, because technically speaking, the bill will need 60 Senate votes, that means at least eight Democrat senators will have to vote in favour of the bill, yeah, good luck with that.

Now remember, his flop healthcare bill needed 50 Republican votes to pass, now imagine, if the “great negotiator” could not even get his own parties 50 Republican senators to support the health care bill, now how the hell, is he going to get all the 52 Republicans and 8 Democrats to support this bill?!

And the most funny part of the bill is that Trump’s own grandfather would not have been able to migrate to the United States, because his grandpa did not speak English, and that means, there would have been no Pres Trump. 

*Under Trump’s new immigration rule, his own grandfather likely wouldn’t have gotten in*

By Philip Bump August 3 2017

It wasn’t until the media started asking questions that the White House’s introduction of a law curtailing legal immigration got contentious. During the daily press briefing, CNN’s Jim Acosta, himself a son of Cuban immigrants, challenged senior adviser Stephen Miller on a component of the proposed bill which would grant English-speakers more favor in gaining admission to the United States.

“Aren’t you trying to change what it means to be an immigrant coming into this country if you’re telling them you have to speak English?” Acosta asked. “Can’t people learn how to speak English when they get here?”

The answer is, of course, that they can. As President Trump’s grandfather did. As Stephen Miller’s great-grandparents did. And as a member of Trump’s own Cabinet did.

The policy, the Raise Act, would introduce a point-based system for new applicants to enter the United States. In addition to speaking English, points would be awarded based on answers to these other questions that Miller mentioned: “Can they support themselves and their families financially? Do they have a skill that will add to the U.S. economy? Are they being paid a high wage?

Were that policy in place in 1885, Friedrich Trumpf would likely not have gained entry to the United States. The immigration record for his arrival that year indicates that he arrived without an identifiable “calling”: The word “none” sits next to his name in that column.

A biographer of Trumpf — father of Fred Trump, who was the father of the president — told Deutsche Welle that Donald Trump’s grandfather didn’t speak English when he got here.

“He came to New York,” Gwenda Blair said, “and, after he learnt English, he went to the West Coast, ran restaurants, amassed a nest egg, then went back to Kallstadt, married the girl next door and brought her to New York.” *Read more*

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## F-22Raptor

RabzonKhan said:


> Closer and closer!
> 
> View attachment 415921
> 
> 
> 
> *Mueller impanels grand jury in Russia probe: report
> *
> BY BRANDON CARTER - 08/03/17
> 
> Special counsel Robert Mueller has reportedly impaneled a grand jury in Washington as part of the ongoing investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 presidential election, The Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.
> 
> *Such a move would signal that the investigation is growing and entering a new phase. The special counsel is looking into Russia's efforts to influence the election and any ties between President Trump's campaign and Moscow.*
> 
> Mueller’s spokesman declined to comment to the newspaper, while White House special counsel Ty Cobb said he was unaware of the new development.
> 
> “Grand jury matters are typically secret. The White House favors anything that accelerates the conclusion of his work fairly," Cobb told the Journal. "The White House is committed to fully cooperating with Mr. Mueller."
> 
> The grand jury, located in Washington, D.C., follows a separate grand jury previously convened in Alexandria, Va., by federal prosecutors investigating former national security adviser Michael Flynn.
> 
> *The news follows efforts from some in Congress to protect Mueller from Trump and his administration’s ability to fire him.*
> 
> *Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Cory Booker (D-N.J.) introduced a bill on Monday that would require the Justice Department to seek a request from a federal judge before firing Mueller or any other special counsel. *
> 
> *"Our bill allows judicial review of any decision to terminate a special counsel to make sure it’s done for the reasons cited in the regulation rather than political motivation. I think this will serve the country well," Graham said in a statement.*
> 
> Booker added that special counsel should never be subjected to "interference or intimidation because of where an investigation takes them."
> 
> *Mueller continues to expand the team investigating Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election with the addition of former Justice Department official Greg Andres, who became the 16th lawyer to join Mueller’s team. Andres previously worked in the Justice Department’s criminal division.*
> 
> *Trump has ratcheted up attacks on Mueller as the investigation proceeds. In an interview with The New York Times in July, Trump warned Mueller against investigating his family’s finances. *
> 
> “I think that’s a violation. Look, this is about Russia,” Trump told The Times.
> 
> Trump also argued that Mueller has hired “Hillary Clinton supporters” and is good friends with former FBI Director James Comey.
> 
> “Well he’s very, very good friends with Comey. Which is very bothersome,” Trump told Fox News. “We’re going to have to see. But there has been no obstruction, there has been no collusion. There has been leaking by Comey. And virtually everyone agrees on that.”
> 
> “The people who have been hired are all Hillary Clinton supporters,” he said. “Some of them worked for Hillary Clinton. I mean the whole thing is ridiculous if you want to know the truth from that standpoint."
> 
> Trump’s own legal team has reportedly been looking into Mueller’s team for potential conflicts of interest to potentially undermine or discredit the investigation.



Just a matter of time before Mueller starts dropping indictments.

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## RabzonKhan

Trump is on a 17-day vacation (though he denies it’s a vacation), he often used to criticized Obama for taking time off from work.

When it comes to lying and hypocrisy, Trump is the king!



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/270609412480192513
“I would rarely leave the White House because there’s so much work to be done,” Trump, 69, tells ITK. "I would not be a president who took vacations. I would not be a president that takes time off.” “You don’t have time to take time off,” *Link*

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## KAL-EL

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump is on a 17-day vacation (though he denies it’s a vacation), *he often used to criticized Obama for taking time off from work*.
> 
> When it comes to lying and hypocrisy, Trump is the king!
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/270609412480192513
> “I would rarely leave the White House because there’s so much work to be done,” Trump, 69, tells ITK. "I would not be a president who took vacations. I would not be a president that takes time off.” “You don’t have time to take time off,” *Link*
> 
> View attachment 416715



I remember him criticizing Obama over and over again on the campaign Trail for taking too many vacations.

And I'm paraphrasing here, but I recall him saying he would be too busy to take a vacation because of all the work he would be doing on behalf of the American people.

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

I salute Heather Heyer a true American Patriot, who was killed by a racist terrorist in Charlottesville, VA on Aug. 13, 2017. *Link* 






A memorial of flowers and a photo of victim, Heather Heyer, sits in Charlottesville, Va., Sunday, Aug. 13, 2017. Heyer died when a car rammed into a group of people who were protesting the presence of white supremacists who had gathered in the city for a rally. (AP Photo/Steve Helber)


Pres Trump, once again showed his hypocrisy and his soft corner for the racist terrorist, after violent clashes between the racist and anti-racist protesters, Trump issued a statement without naming the racist terrorist: 


“We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides,” Trump told press at his golf course in Bedminster, New Jersey, on Saturday. “This hate and division must stop, and it must stop now.”

As we can notice, Trump failed to call the evil by its name, but once upon a time, Trump used to repeatedly criticize Obama for not referring AQ, ISIS and others as “radical Islamic terrorists”.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/665896711685087237
Meanwhile his statement was welcomed by many racists, including David Duke, the former imperial wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and Daily Stormer, a popular neo-Nazi website of racist Alt-Right movement.

But thankfully, that outraged many Americans, who condemned and questioned Trump’s lousy and apologetic statement.

Thanks to the bipartisan criticism, Trump was forced to issue a new statement: (I’m loving it)

“Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans,” “We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal.”








What a great victory!

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## RabzonKhan

Steve Bannon, Trump's controversial chief strategist, caught lying red-handed.






*STEVE BANNON SAID HE LEARNED TO FEAR MUSLIMS WHEN HE VISITED PAKISTAN. EXCEPT HE WAS PROBABLY IN HONG KONG.*

Peter Maass August 11 2017

IF YOU ASK Steve Bannon how he got the idea that Muslims in the Middle East are a civilizational threat to America, he will say that his eyes were first opened when he served on a Navy destroyer in the Arabian Sea. At least that’s what he told the journalist Joshua Green, whose new book about President Donald Trump’s senior counselor is a best-seller.

“It was not hard to see, as a junior officer, sitting there, that [the threat] was just going to be huge,” Bannon said. He went on:

*We’d pull into a place like Karachi, Pakistan – this is 1979, and I’ll never forget it – the British guys came on board, because they still ran the port.*  The city had 10 million people at the time. We’d get out there, and 8 million of them had to be below the age of fifteen. It was an eye-opener. We’d been other places like the Philippines where there was mass poverty. But it was nothing like the Middle East. It was just a complete eye-opener. It was the other end of the earth.

That’s Bannon’s version. There are a few problems with it, however.

*The port of Karachi was not run by the British in 1979. Karachi, which is the commercial hub of Pakistan, had a population that was well short of 10 million (it was about half that) and is not usually considered part of the Middle East. But the biggest problem is that the destroyer Bannon served on, the USS Paul F. Foster, never visited Karachi while Bannon was aboard. *

Six sailors who served on the Foster with Bannon told The Intercept that the vessel did not stop at Karachi during its 1979-1980 deployment. The recollections of these enlisted men and officers are supported by the ship’s deck logs, which show no stop on the way to the Arabian Sea and are available to the public at the National Archives. And a map of the Foster’s port calls that was published in its “cruisebook” shows stops in Hawaii, Guam, the Philippines, Christmas Island, Hong Kong, and Singapore — but not Karachi.

*It turns out that Bannon, who has drawn a large amount of criticism for his exclusionary stances on race, religion, and immigration, has also inaccurately described his military service, simultaneously creating an erroneous narrative of how he came to an incendiary anti-Muslim worldview that helps shape White House policy.* *Read more*

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## F-22Raptor

Trump's retweet storm: A Pizzagate conspiracy theorist, a train hitting CNN, and accusations of fascism

President Trump started off Tuesday morning by retweeting a number of controversial images and sources – ranging from a known conspiracy theorist to an image depicting violence against the media. 

The retweet storm came as critics wondered why Trump's scripted statement denouncing white supremacists for their role in the violence in Charlottesville came 48 hours after his initial remarks chiding "many sides" were criticized as inadequate. 

Trump retweeted Jack Posobiec, an alt-right figure who pushed the Pizzagate and Seth Rich conspiracy theories, who questioned why there was no similar outrage over the violence in Chicago.

"Meanwhile: 39 shootings in Chicago this weekend, 9 deaths. No national media outrage. Why is that?" 

The retweet remained on the president's account as of Tuesday morning.

The president also retweeted the account @slandinsocal, who posted an image of a person holding a CNN sign being hit by a train, with the commentary, "Nothing can stop the #TrumpTrain!!" 

The White House said in a statement that this tweet was inadvertently posted and as soon it was noticed it was immediately deleted. The president has deleted tweets and retweets in the past.

Yet the image was reminiscent of another controversial tweet, when the president posted a gif that depicted him punching CNN. The retweet also comes the day after the president called a CNN reporter "fake news" during an exchange at the White House.

And the retweet's timing struck many social media users as in especially poor taste, just days after a 20-year-old alleged white nationalist drove a car into a crowd of people protesting the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville – killing one and wounding 19 others in an incident Attorney General Jeff Sessions said appeared to fit the legal definition of domestic terrorism. 

Walter Shaub, the former head of the Office of Government Ethics, called on Congress to condemn the president, given the recent violence in Charlottesville, Va.

Trump also retweeted Mike Holden, who called the president a "fascist" in response to news that the president was "seriously considering" a pardon for former Arizona sheriff Joe Arpaio.

Trump had retweeted a story about a possible pardon for Arpaio, who was found guilty of criminal contempt related to a racial profiling case – which in itself would be highly controversial in the immediate aftermath of Charlottesville. 

Trump's retweet of the accusation of fascism, the White House said, was also inadvertent and deleted. 

Yet Holden's Twitter bio reads, "Officially Endorsed by the President of the United States. I wish that were a good thing." 

He said he'd never top the retweet.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...te-conspiracy-theorist-cnn-cartoon/567843001/

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## RabzonKhan

Bravo, former President Obama’s tweet on Charlottesville violence has become the second most liked tweet ever. It got more than 2.5 million likes.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896523232098078720

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## F-22Raptor

Trump's PC today was a total disgrace. He's already one of the worst President's in our history, but strictly on a human level, he's an awful person. A total POS. Here is a man with no moral compass whatsoever.



RabzonKhan said:


> Bravo, former President Obama’s tweet on Charlottesville violence has become the second most liked tweet ever. It got more than 2.5 million likes.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896523232098078720


Say what you want about his politics, but Obama is loved around the world, and is one of the most popular political leaders in history. One day, when he passes, he is going to be mourned by millions/billions.

Trump on the other hand will be an afterthought. History is not going to be kind to Trump at all.

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## gambit

F-22Raptor said:


> Trump's PC today was a total disgrace. He's already one of the worst President's in our history, but strictly on a human level, he's an awful person. A total POS. Here is a man with no moral compass whatsoever.
> 
> Say what you want about his politics, but Obama is loved around the world, and is one of the most popular political leaders in history. One day, when he passes, he is going to be mourned by millions/billions.
> 
> Trump on the other hand will be an afterthought. History is not going to be kind to Trump at all.


Trump is the consequence of Obama's and the Left's policies. That is not to say I am a Trumpster.

What I am saying is that Obama and the Left, when they were in power, did a series of things, from major policies like the ACA to small stuff like Obama's often negative stances against the police, left an overall sour aftertaste in enough Americans' mouths that they chose to rebel in putting a Republican in the White House. Not only that, when they contrast brash Donald Trump against a slate of Republican candidates, from too young looking Rubio to the bookish Bush to preacher-like Huckabee, they chose Trump. They were tired of *BOTH* sides.


----------



## maximuswarrior

RabzonKhan said:


> Bravo, former President Obama’s tweet on Charlottesville violence has become the second most liked tweet ever. It got more than 2.5 million likes.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896523232098078720



Obama is the reason why Trump got elected in the first place.

America is a racially charged country. Nothing good will happen.



RabzonKhan said:


> Steve Bannon, Trump's controversial chief strategist, caught lying red-handed.
> 
> View attachment 418419
> 
> 
> *STEVE BANNON SAID HE LEARNED TO FEAR MUSLIMS WHEN HE VISITED PAKISTAN. EXCEPT HE WAS PROBABLY IN HONG KONG.*
> 
> Peter Maass August 11 2017
> 
> IF YOU ASK Steve Bannon how he got the idea that Muslims in the Middle East are a civilizational threat to America, he will say that his eyes were first opened when he served on a Navy destroyer in the Arabian Sea. At least that’s what he told the journalist Joshua Green, whose new book about President Donald Trump’s senior counselor is a best-seller.
> 
> “It was not hard to see, as a junior officer, sitting there, that [the threat] was just going to be huge,” Bannon said. He went on:
> 
> *We’d pull into a place like Karachi, Pakistan – this is 1979, and I’ll never forget it – the British guys came on board, because they still ran the port.*  The city had 10 million people at the time. We’d get out there, and 8 million of them had to be below the age of fifteen. It was an eye-opener. We’d been other places like the Philippines where there was mass poverty. But it was nothing like the Middle East. It was just a complete eye-opener. It was the other end of the earth.
> 
> That’s Bannon’s version. There are a few problems with it, however.
> 
> *The port of Karachi was not run by the British in 1979. Karachi, which is the commercial hub of Pakistan, had a population that was well short of 10 million (it was about half that) and is not usually considered part of the Middle East. But the biggest problem is that the destroyer Bannon served on, the USS Paul F. Foster, never visited Karachi while Bannon was aboard. *
> 
> Six sailors who served on the Foster with Bannon told The Intercept that the vessel did not stop at Karachi during its 1979-1980 deployment. The recollections of these enlisted men and officers are supported by the ship’s deck logs, which show no stop on the way to the Arabian Sea and are available to the public at the National Archives. And a map of the Foster’s port calls that was published in its “cruisebook” shows stops in Hawaii, Guam, the Philippines, Christmas Island, Hong Kong, and Singapore — but not Karachi.
> 
> *It turns out that Bannon, who has drawn a large amount of criticism for his exclusionary stances on race, religion, and immigration, has also inaccurately described his military service, simultaneously creating an erroneous narrative of how he came to an incendiary anti-Muslim worldview that helps shape White House policy.* *Read more*



They just can't refrain from mentioning Pakistan. Their hate for us is immensely deep. I think we are heading for total disaster in the next few years. Something big is going to happen.


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## T-72M1

Great press conference, President Trump laid the smack down on the fake news media again.






Trump got the facts on his side again, there's plenty of evidence that clearly shows both sides being very violent.

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## T-72M1

yaay, another Trump rally. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897974118959783937
hope he goes off script and talks about the kkk and antifa teleprompter free.

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## LA se Karachi

*Trump Job Approval Rating Now at 34%, New Low*
by Frank Newport





President Donald Trump's job approval rating in Gallup Daily tracking is at 34% for the three-day period from Friday through Sunday -- by one point the lowest of his administration so far.

It is difficult to pinpoint the precise cause of the new low rating, but the changes were apparent on Friday, with his day-by-day ratings near 34% across Saturday and Sunday as well. Trump has consistently been in the news over the past week, including the continued focus on North Korea, even while taking a working vacation at one of his golf properties in New Jersey. The events in Charlottesville, Virginia, that resulted in the deaths of a 32-year-old woman and two Virginia State Police officers dominated news coverage on Saturday and Sunday. Trump's prior three-day low reading was 35%, registered March 26-28.

From a broader perspective, Trump's rating of 36% for the week ending Aug. 13 was also by one point his lowest on a weekly basis. The president has talked in recent days about doing well with his "base," but Republicans' latest weekly approval rating of 79% was the lowest from his own partisans so far, dropping from the previous week's 82%. Democrats gave Trump a 7% job approval rating last week, while the reading for independents was at 29%. This is the first time independents' weekly approval rating for Trump has dropped below 30%.

For the three-day period ending Sunday, Republicans' approval of Trump was at 77%.

Trump's highest three-day reading to date has been 46%, recorded most recently on Jan. 23-25, shortly after his Jan. 20 inauguration. He has averaged 40% so far since taking office.

Although he has the lowest rating in Gallup's history for any newly elected president in the summer of his first term in office, Trump's current 34% remains higher than the low points reached by a number of presidents during their administrations. Presidents George W. Bush, George H.W. Bush, Jimmy Carter, Richard Nixon and Harry Truman all had job approval ratings lower than 34%, including the all-time low of 22% recorded by Truman in 1952.

Trump's current approval rating is lower than any reading for his immediate predecessor, Barack Obama, who reached a three-day low of 38% several times in 2011 and 2014.

_http://www.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/216125/trump-job-approval-rating-new-low.aspx

 _

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## LA se Karachi



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## Gomig-21

^^ Colbert is great. I heard Letterman is coming back for a show or two. That should be fun.



T-72M1 said:


> hope he goes off script and talks about the kkk and antifa teleprompter free.



I don't think you have to worry about that not happening loooool

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## T-72M1

Gomig-21 said:


> I don't think you have to worry about that not happening loooool


I like that the msm have put him in a bind where there is no way he can get his message out positively without them smearing/spinning every little thing he tries to do, so he has to keep doing these rallies lol.

Should be fun, hope the msm keep the heat up till then.

I predict he's walking away from this just like he has from all previous scandals, unscathed, until the next msm hysteria inducing episode. They're risking it all on this one.

Cenk thinks he's gone.










8 Trump years, man's not a racist. The whole swamp, including both sides of the isle against him screaming "Hitler" will only endear him to more people.


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## Gomig-21

T-72M1 said:


> I like that the msm have put him in a bind where there is no way he can get his message out positively without them smearing/spinning every little thing he tries to do, so he has to keep doing these rallies lol.



You know what they say about digging yourself a hole;
_What do you do when you're trapped in a hole you can't get out of? Dig yourself in deeper! _



T-72M1 said:


> Should be fun, hope the msm keep the heat up till then.



I think it would be safe to bet the house on that happening. There hasn't been the likes of anything like this since ever and what more can the media ask for? Not even just msm, alternative and underground are all having a ball with what's going on.



T-72M1 said:


> I predict he's walking away from this just like he has from all previous scandals, unscathed, until the next msm hysteria inducing episode. They're risking it all on this one.



You could be right, but I'm guessing it's going to catch up to him at some point. You can always get away with things, but you have to right the ship at some point before it sinks. One can only be so incompetent, alienating, insulting, untruthful and self destructing for so long before your world caves in on you. Even for the most powerful man in the world. I think there is way too much weight piling up, eventually it has to cave in unless there is some miraculous recovery, but we've seen nothing that indicates this guy is capable of doing that.



T-72M1 said:


> Cenk thinks he's gone.



I like Cenk but he's giving himself way too much credit for predicting Trump would win 6 months ahead of the primaries. Just because he got that right doesn't mean he's going to be right in this case, but I do think he is right! lol.

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## LA se Karachi



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## ptldM3

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump is on a 17-day vacation (though he denies it’s a vacation), he often used to criticized Obama for taking time off from work.
> 
> When it comes to lying and hypocrisy, Trump is the king!
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/270609412480192513
> “I would rarely leave the White House because there’s so much work to be done,” Trump, 69, tells ITK. "I would not be a president who took vacations. I would not be a president that takes time off.” “You don’t have time to take time off,” *Link*
> 
> View attachment 416715




There was major construction in the White House. You leftist and your propaganda is hilarious. The floors are being replaced, the place is being repaired, and in general everything is being replaced or renovated but leave it to leftist propaganda to exploit the situation and spread misinformation: 


The 3.4 million dollar renovation was also approved by Obama. The leftist love to accuse Trump of wasting tax dollars on the renovation. That is the reason for the "vacation".















LA se Karachi said:


>



Liberals get their news from this leftis cuck, if this guy had a bad case of diarrhea he would blame Trump 

I didn't see this cuck complain when Black Lives matters murdered 7 police officer, I didn't see him complaining when Obama invited that hate group to the White House and I did not see him or other liberals complaining when Obama fueled the riots in Ferguson by glorifying a criminal that robbed an old man and tried to murder a police officer. When leftist gun down politicians, the leftist media is silent, when Antifa throws explosives and Molotov cocktails into crowds, the leftists are silent, when radical Islamic terrorists kill dozens and injure hundreds by ramming vans into crowds or shooting automatic weapons into crowds, the leftist don't blame Obama, they don't blame Islam, on the contrary, it's always Trumps fault, or someone else's fault.

But when some racist white nationalist rammed a car into a crowd and killed 1 person, the leftists are literally crying on television and pretending like this is equivalent to 911 or Pearl Harbor all the while sweeping leftist and Islamic attacks under the rug.

The white nationalist had a permit to protest. Antifa did not have a permit and only came to start a fight. Antifa is a facist violent leftist group that advocates for whites to be stripped of their constitutional rights.

Both sides are to blame but the leftists that warships communists that murdered 10s of millions of people somehow are spinning it as Trump's fault.

The facist left came for a fight and got hurt and now they are crying. The other side has tolerated them long enough so is anyone surprised?


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## T-72M1

Gomig-21 said:


> You know what they say about digging yourself a hole;
> _What do you do when you're trapped in a hole you can't get out of? Dig yourself in deeper! _


They've been saying he's been digging that hole since he announced his candidacy, he's now commander in chief. 



Gomig-21 said:


> I think it would be safe to bet the house on that happening. There hasn't been the likes of anything like this since ever and what more can the media ask for? Not even just msm, alternative and underground are all having a ball with what's going on.


It's the media who've been digging themselves in a hole, they've got no credibility left. Trump will wipe the floor with them again, wait for it 



Gomig-21 said:


> You could be right, but I'm guessing it's going to catch up to him at some point. You can always get away with things, but you have to right the ship at some point before it sinks. One can only be so incompetent, alienating, insulting, untruthful and self destructing for so long before your world caves in on you. Even for the most powerful man in the world. I think there is way too much weight piling up, eventually it has to cave in unless there is some miraculous recovery, but we've seen nothing that indicates this guy is capable of doing that.


He has stepped in it on occasion and inflicted harm on himself in the past but gotten away with it. On this occasion, however, he did/said nothing wrong. There _was _violence on both sides and antifa and other far left anarchists are a nasty bunch. It was a bad situation that culminated when that nazi drove into a crowd and killed that girl.

He's not infallible, and might well do something stupid in the future that leads to his political downfall but he said/did nothing wrong here.



Gomig-21 said:


> I like Cenk


Cenk is a moron, so are his most of his main co hosts, Ana Kasparian, John, Hasan etc.

TyT Politics is a much better channel with more common sense hosts like Jordan and Emma, Michael Tracy etc, much more measured in their analysis.

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## T-72M1



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## LA se Karachi

RabzonKhan said:


> But my fear, you never know, but that can change because we have a very unstable man in the White House, he is a walking talking disaster. To make my point let me give you an example, remember George Bush, how he dragged us into a totally useless war in Iraq, so far that war has cost us more than 2 trillion and some studies show that it can cost us over 6 trillion in the next four decades. The consequence of that stupid war is that we are still stuck in Afghanistan, the damn, terrorist Taliban are as stronger as ever and Al Qaeda is regaining strength again and terrorist ISIS is another disastrous outcome of that useless war.




You're right that foreign policy decisions made by a President have far-reaching consequences that can last for decades. Luckily, however, Trump actually seems to be doing alright in this category---excluding Russia. Congress passed new sanctions on Russia with strong support from both parties (and a veto-proof majority). Even there, his hands are somewhat tied.

While it may be sad to hear his statements on Charlottesville, and traitorous Confederate monuments, it's very interesting from a purely political perspective. It's like the man is on a mission to become as unpopular and un-electable as possible. The amount of damage he's doing to himself and the Republican Party is immeasurable. We should thank him for that.

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## T-72M1

Bannon got the boot !

Liberlols shouldn't get ahead of themselves, this might very well be very deep 18 dimensional chess that we can't comprehend yet. 

Bannon, having been in the inner circle of Trump, might have been deputed to be the administration's man on the outside, unrestricted by fears of tarnishing the presidency anymore.

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## RabzonKhan

What a wonderful day for America! Steve racist Bannon is gone! I am loving it!

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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> What a wonderful day for America! Steve racist Bannon is gone! I am loving it!


Trump made a bigly move with this to take the heat off, but this reeks of 18/24/32 D chess..


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## Gomig-21

T-72M1 said:


> They've been saying he's been digging that hole since he announced his candidacy, he's now commander in chief.



Although, even you would have to agree it's one thing to be a civilian billionaire candidate digging your own hole and another being the POTUS. The limelight, the critics, the checks and balances and the consequences are on a completely different level. 



T-72M1 said:


> It's the media who've been digging themselves in a hole, they've got no credibility left. Trump will wipe the floor with them again, wait for it



Really? I think many would argue that point and say it's pretty clear he's actually empowered the media, especially the msm, by giving them more material to sail to China with and back. He's given them ratings beyond their imagination. Essentially, he's made them billions at his expense! That's why it's impossible to buy this theory of ingenuity to expose the "fake media" and the left on his behalf.



T-72M1 said:


> He has stepped in it on occasion and inflicted harm on himself in the past but gotten away with it. On this occasion, however, he did/said nothing wrong. There _was _violence on both sides and antifa and other far left anarchists are a nasty bunch. It was a bad situation that culminated when that nazi drove into a crowd and killed that girl.
> 
> He's not infallible, and might well do something stupid in the future that leads to his political downfall but he said/did nothing wrong here.



I don't think many disagree with that. I think most of us have been consistent about the freedoms that all groups should be able to exercise and that he was right in that respect and that there was blame on both sides and yes, the supremacists were attacked by the leftists and the latter should be held accountable for their actions. The problem is his inability to articulate and to understand that there is a major, conflicting moral issue with what many of those supremacists promote as well as the violence with the leftist and all of that should have been clearly addressed and it wasn't. He failed in that regard and I think the reasons are obvious. 



T-72M1 said:


> Cenk is a moron, so are his most of his main co hosts, Ana Kasparian, John, Hasan etc.



I never claimed Cenk was a genius, lol. You should've quoted my entire quote for context.

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## T-72M1

Gomig-21 said:


> Although, even you would have to agree it's one thing to be a civilian billionaire candidate digging your own hole and another being the POTUS. The limelight, the critics, the checks and balances and the consequences are on a completely different level.


True, but he really hasn't done anything catastrophic as POTUS yet, still a long ways to go though. 



Gomig-21 said:


> Really? I think many would argue that point and say it's pretty clear he's actually empowered the media, especially the msm, by giving them more material to sail to China with and back. He's given them ratings beyond their imagination. Essentially, he's made them billions at his expense! That's why it's impossible to buy this theory of ingenuity to expose the "fake media" and the left on his behalf.


I think it's half manufactured outrage by the media, the other half is Trump whipping them into a frenzy, like the General Pershing tweet right on the heels of this nazi madness, controlled chaos with Trump pulling all the strings. It works to his advantage when they go over the top, even tweeted about it. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/898130328916824064


Gomig-21 said:


> I don't think many disagree with that. I think most of us have been consistent about the freedoms that all groups should be able to exercise and that he was right in that respect and that there was blame on both sides and yes, the supremacists were attacked by the leftists and the latter should be held accountable for their actions. The problem is his inability to articulate and to understand that there is a major, conflicting moral issue with what many of those supremacists promote as well as the violence with the leftist and all of that should have been clearly addressed and it wasn't. He failed in that regard and I think the reasons are obvious.


He's not very articulate, is he  

Weird, because if you watch some of his interviews from years ago and he's basically talking about a lot of the same things he speaks about now, just a lot more coherent back then.



Gomig-21 said:


> I never claimed Cenk was a genius, lol. You should've quoted my entire quote for context.


I just find him really annoying, still watch a lot of his material though. 

Here we go, was waiting for this one.

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## Gomig-21

T-72M1 said:


> I think it's half manufactured outrage by the media, the other half is Trump whipping them into a frenzy, like the General Pershing tweet right on the heels of this nazi madness, controlled chaos with Trump pulling all the strings. It works to his advantage when they go over the top, even tweeted about it.



lol. You know he quoted that bogus story about General Pershing during the campaign also, right? I think the numbnuts really believes it!

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## RabzonKhan

I couldn’t have said it better!

The great Arnold Schwarzenegger’s message for Pres Trump and racist Alt-right on Charlottesville violence.






"Let me help you write your speech a little bit," says Arnold the Terminator to Trump, you have "moral responsibility to send an unequivocal message that you won't stand for hate and racism." In the video Terminator drafts the speech that he says Trump should have given after the violence in Charlottesville:

“As Pres of the United States, and as a Republican, I reject the support of white supremacists. The country that defeated Hitler’s armies is no place for the Nazi flags. The party of Lincoln won’t stand for those who carry the battle flag of the failed Confederacy.”

And in the video he also had a message for the KKK, Alt-Right and white supremacists:

“Your heroes are losers” 

“I knew the original Nazis, growing up, I was surrounded by broken men, men who came home from war filled with shrapnel and guilt, men who were misled into a losing ideology, and I tell you, that these ghosts you idolize spent the rest of their lives living in shame and right now, they are resting in hell.”






RabzonKhan said:


> Bravo, former President Obama’s tweet on Charlottesville violence has become the second most liked tweet ever. It got more than 2.5 million likes.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/896523232098078720


Meanwhile, former Pres Obama’s response to Charlottesville violence shatters Twitter record. That’s the difference between a decent President and an embarrassment.

Twitter announced after midnight on Wednesday that the former president's tweet had hit the milestone. *Link*

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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> I couldn’t have said it better!
> 
> The great Arnold Schwarzenegger’s message for Pres Trump and racist Alt-right on Charlottesville violence.
> 
> 
> 
> "Let me help you write your speech a little bit," says Arnold the Terminator to Trump, you have "moral responsibility to send an unequivocal message that you won't stand for hate and racism." In the video Terminator drafts the speech that he says Trump should have given after the violence in Charlottesville:
> 
> “As Pres of the United States, and as a Republican, I reject the support of white supremacists. The country that defeated Hitler’s armies is no place for the Nazi flags. The party of Lincoln won’t stand for those who carry the battle flag of the failed Confederacy.”
> 
> And in the video he also had a message for the KKK, Alt-Right and white supremacists:
> 
> “Your heroes are losers”
> 
> “I knew the original Nazis, growing up, I was surrounded by broken men, men who came home from war filled with shrapnel and guilt, men who were misled into a losing ideology, and I tell you, that these ghosts you idolize spent the rest of their lives living in shame and right now, they are resting in hell.”


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## Gomig-21

ptldM3 said:


> The 3.4 million dollar renovation was also approved by Obama. The leftist love to accuse Trump of wasting tax dollars on the renovation. That is the reason for the "vacation".



Here's the problem, though; maybe the left wouldn't bitch and complain and constantly rag on him and specifically with vacationing time -- regardless of whether the oval office was being renovated or not -- if he had only kept that erratic, flapping, gum glap of his shut when he constantly criticized Obama for taking "so many vacations." It's like so many things with this lunatic. He had to add something when questioning Obama's birth certificate and that's what he used, too much vacation time which now has come back (like with many other things) to bite him in the derriere.

So on top of this 17 day vacation (which BTW, has exhausted the yearly budget of the secret service protecting the president and his large family during all these vacations in less than 8 months) but there has also been ridiculous misuse (or a better term is inconsiderate) of the SS budget when for some bizarre reason, Melania had to stay at Trump Tower for the first few months instead on sleeping with her husband in the WH, adding much more SS to protect her and their kid or whomever. Jersey golf club weekends, Mara Lago weekend after weekend and blowing the budget and surpassing what Obama spent on vacations.

So maybe if he hadn't gum glapped all these years and showed some semblance of practicing what he preaches, (specifically in this matter since we can list a gazillion other lies and and phony claims he's gone back on), maybe this wouldn't be a big issue.

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## T-72M1

So, the msm are rolling in Trump's poo just like they did after the Syria tomahawk attack..

but..

Fears of a complete neo-con takeover of the Trump administration are greatly exaggerated, though not entirely unfounded.

Missed the Trump speech earlier but saw CNN flash scary headlines about a very divisive speech and bits about 
"muh confederacy and are heritage" 






lol

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## LA se Karachi

*US Science Envoy resigns*
_
"Mr. President, I am resigning as Science Envoy. Your response to Charlottesville enables racism, sexism, & harms our country and planet."
_

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## T-72M1

LA se Karachi said:


> *US Science Envoy resigns*
> _
> "Mr. President, I am resigning as Science Envoy. Your response to Charlottesville enables racism, sexism, & harms our country and planet."
> _
> View attachment 420492


by a UC Berkeley prof

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## LA se Karachi

T-72M1 said:


> by a UC Berkeley prof



It's still embarrassing.

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## F-22Raptor

Trump is effectively destroying his relationships with Senate and House Republicans, the very people he needs to advance his agenda. He's also threatening to shutdown the government if the wall isn't funded. Good luck with that Donnie.

An wait, I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall? What gives?

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## Figaro

F-22Raptor said:


> Trump is effectively destroying his relationships with Senate and House Republicans, the very people he needs to advance his agenda. He's also threatening to shutdown the government if the wall isn't funded. Good luck with that Donnie.
> 
> An wait, I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall? What gives?


I mean, Trump could theoretically get Mexico to pay for the wall ... via increased (and illegal) tariffs on Mexican exports that could seriously damage trade relations. I don't believe Trump was "ridiculous" on claiming to shut down the government; much of his supporter base voted for him based on his campaign promise and doing so would alleviate their concerns.


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## KAL-EL

F-22Raptor said:


> Trump is effectively destroying his relationships with Senate and House Republicans, the very people he needs to advance his agenda. He's also threatening to shutdown the government if the wall isn't funded. Good luck with that Donnie.
> 
> An wait, I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall? What gives?



President Trump seems to be of the belief that the Senate and House work for him. 

Like they're his employees or something.

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## T-72M1

LA se Karachi said:


> It's still embarrassing.


Grandstanding is what it is. 

Very entertaining though, great fun to watch. The man ran an insurgent campaign and now he's taking on the swamp on both sides of the isle in an insurgent manner. He's solidifying his 'outsider' credentials with stuff like the Phoenix rally.

Trump might end up doing a lot of good for the world if he can keep the neocons at bay.

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## Figaro

T-72M1 said:


> Grandstanding is what it is.
> 
> Very entertaining though, great fun to watch. The man ran an insurgent campaign and now he's taking on the swamp on both sides of the isle in an insurgent manner. He's solidifying his 'outsider' credentials with stuff like the Phoenix rally.
> 
> Trump might end up doing a lot of good for the world if he can keep the neocons at bay.


Whatya mean by neo-cons? The Cheney neo-cons or the dumb alt-right "neo-cons"? American politics is radically fwacked up these days ... The alt-right (or wannabe Nazis) are what Trump needs to counter ...


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## T-72M1

Figaro said:


> Whatya mean by neo-cons? The Cheney neo-cons or the dumb alt-right "neo-cons"? American politics is radically fwacked up these days ... The alt-right (or wannabe Nazis) are what Trump needs to counter ...


John McCancer and Lindsey Graham et all, the perpetual war and regime change hawks.

Non interventionism is the one thing the alt right actually gets right, you can't fault them on that one. What is the alt-right anyway ? Used to be non pc kids posting pepe memes and trolling back during the early days of his campaign, the term got co-opted later by the likes of Richard Spencer causing many within the original movement to distance themselves from the identitarians, these are the non racist alt-lite/ new right.


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## T-72M1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/900694348257517568


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## LA se Karachi

_From PPP's latest poll: _
*

Trump, His Promises, and 2020*

Trump continues to be unpopular, with a 40/53 approval spread. Voters think he has failed on two of the core promises of his campaign. Only 15% believe he has been successful in 'draining the swamp,' to 64% who say he hasn't. Even among Trump's own voters just 26% think he has delivered on this promise to 53% who say he hasn't. When it comes to whether Trump has come through on 'Making America Great Again,' just 33% of voters say he has to 59% who say he hasn't.

Some of Trump's issues are related to policy. For instance only 31% of voters agree with his edict to ban transgender individuals from the military, to 57% who oppose it. Similarly only 34% of voters support his proposed wall with Mexico, to 55% of voters who oppose it.

Trump also has issues with how voters feel about his character. Only 39% think he is honest, to 55% who say he is not. In fact 49% of voters come right out and call Trump a liar, with only 43% disagreeing with that characterization. By a 39/34 spread voters express the belief that Trump is more corrupt than Richard Nixon.

Another thing hurting Trump's standing is a perceived lack of transparency. 61% of voters still think he should release his tax returns to 33% who don't think it's necessary for him to. In fact by a 55/31 spread voters support a law requiring the release of 5 years of tax returns for a Presidential candidate to even appear on the ballot.

*The upshot of all this is for the fourth month in a row we find a plurality of voters in support of impeaching Trump- 48% say he should be impeached to 41% who disagree. And there continues to be a significant yearning for a return to the days of President Obama- 52% of voters say they wish Obama was still President to only 39% who prefer having Trump in the White House.

Trump continues to trail both Bernie Sanders (51/38) and Joe Biden (51/39) by double digits in possible 2020 match ups. PPP never found Hillary Clinton up by more than 7 points on Trump in 2016. Sanders and Biden each win over 12-14% of the folks who voted for Trump last year. Also leading Trump in hypothetical contests at this point are Elizabeth Warren (45/40), Mark Cuban (42/38), and Cory Booker and Trump Twitter Target Richard Blumenthal (42/39). Trump ties Kamala Harris at 39% each and John Delaney at 38% each.

Generally speaking just 57% of Republicans want Trump to be the party's nominee again in 2020 to 29% who say they would prefer someone else. That 28 point margin for Trump against 'someone else' is the same as his 28 point lead over Mike Pence at 52/24. Both Ted Cruz (a 40 point deficit to Trump at 62/22) and John Kasich (a 47 point deficit to Trump at 68/21) are evidently weaker potential opponents than 'someone else.'*

*Trump and the Media*

With the absence of a 'Crooked Hillary,' 'Lying Ted,' 'Little Marco,' or 'Low Energy Jeb' to use as his foil while President, Trump has taken to attacking various media outlets as his new foes. He's losing to them in a way that he never trailed during the campaign in our polling though:

Who do you trust more: Donald Trump or _____

Winner

ABC

ABC, 53/35

CBS

CBS, 53/35

NBC

NBC, 53/35

New York Times

New York Times, 53/36

Washington Post

Washington Post, 51/36

CNN

CNN, 50/35

And suffice it to say, Trump's attacks on Amazon aren't having much impact on the company's image. 60% of voters see the company favorably to only 13% with a negative opinion of it. Amazon gets positive reviews from Clinton voters (67/9) and Trump voters (53/20) alike.

Full results here

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## Gomig-21

LA se Karachi said:


> The upshot of all this is for the fourth month in a row we find a plurality of voters in support of impeaching Trump- 48% say he should be impeached to 41% who disagree. And there continues to be a significant yearning for a return to the days of President Obama- 52% of voters say they wish Obama was still President to only 39% who prefer having Trump in the White House.



48% support his impeachment even based on nothing solid enough that would be required to impeach him lol!
_"Just impeach him, we don't care why just find something and do it!" _A lot of his supporters seem to be thinking twice now.

And 48% yearning for Obama says a lot. But then again, counters will claim polling isn't indicative of reality.
I think A LOT of people have forgotten and are slowly being reminded of what Obama inherited and the adversity of his first term. Worst, who's reaping the benefits of his successful 8-year presidency and turn-around, besides us, and who's taking the false credit for it? Ugh.



LA se Karachi said:


> Trump continues to trail both Bernie Sanders (51/38) and Joe Biden (51/39) by double digits in possible 2020 match ups. PPP never found Hillary Clinton up by more than 7 points on Trump in 2016. Sanders and Biden each win over 12-14% of the folks who voted for Trump last year. Also leading Trump in hypothetical contests at this point are Elizabeth Warren (45/40), Mark Cuban (42/38), and Cory Booker and Trump Twitter Target Richard Blumenthal (42/39). Trump ties Kamala Harris at 39% each and John Delaney at 38% each.



You know you're in trouble when you're surpassed by Elizabeth Warren (we know her quite well here in MA lol) and Mark Cuban? 



LA se Karachi said:


> And suffice it to say, Trump's attacks on Amazon aren't having much impact on the company's image. 60% of voters see the company favorably to only 13% with a negative opinion of it. Amazon gets positive reviews from Clinton voters (67/9) and Trump voters (53/20) alike.



If anything, his attacks on Amazon have probably increased its status. If I'm not mistaken, Amazon is #1 in sales and is on the way to forcing Sears and K-mart to close. Maybe it's part of his "genius" plan that we're all missing.

I wonder if Biden will run in 2020. This might be his best chance with the way things are going.

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## RabzonKhan

Thanks to White House chief of staff, Gen Kelly, Bannon’s ally, Sebastian Gorka is shown the door. 

*Sebastian Gorka, a fiery nationalist and Bannon ally, abruptly exits White House*

By Philip Rucker August 25 2017

Sebastian Gorka, a controversial White House staffer who served as a fiery spokesman for President Trump on national security matters, abruptly left the administration on Friday as his nationalist faction was being silenced, four people briefed on Gorka’s exit confirmed.

*Gorka, a deputy assistant to the president, is a close ally of former chief strategist Stephen K. Bannon, who departed the White House last week. Together they saw their roles as enabling and promoting the president’s combative populism and revolutionary impulses.*

Although Trump enjoyed watching his cable television appearances, in which he performed like a pit bull and taunted many news anchors for peddling what he and the president deemed “fake news,” Gorka had run afoul of many of his colleagues, including some on the National Security Council who considered him a fringe figure.

*Officials said it was widely known that White House chief of staff, John F. Kelly, who has been restructuring the West Wing to stem infighting and chaos within the staff, was eager for Gorka to depart the administration.*

While Gorka publicly released a resignation letter expressing his displeasure with the changes that he felt left his faction silenced, two White House officials insisted Gorka did not resign but rather was forced out. A third White House official said the “writing was on the wall” that Kelly wanted Gorka to leave.






White House deputy assistant to the president 

Gorka’s departure spells the end of the Bannon era inside the White House, though he indicated he intended to be a potent force outside the administration.

Gorka previously worked at Breitbart News alongside Bannon, who rejoined the conservative news organization last week as executive chairman vowing to wage war against anyone — including West Wing officials — who stand in the way of Trump’s nationalist agenda.

Gorka did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Friday evening. The Federalist, which first reported Gorka’s departure, published what it says was Gorka’s resignation letter to Trump. Someone close to Gorka confirmed the letter’s authenticity to The Washington Post.

It was unclear whether Gorka shared his letter with anyone besides The Federalist. One White House official said that Gorka spoke with Kelly on Friday to discuss his exit and asked to visit Trump in person on Monday to hand him a departure letter, but was not granted that permission.

“It is clear to me that forces that do not support the [Make America Great Again] promise are — for now — ascendant within the White House,” he wrote. “As a result, the best and most effective way I can support you, Mr. President, is from outside the People’s House.”

Gorka cited Trump’s speech Monday night announcing a new strategy for the war in Afghanistan.

“The fact that those who drafted and approved the speech removed any mention of Radical Islam or radical Islamic terrorism proves that a crucial element of your presidential campaign has been lost,” Gorka wrote.

He added, “Just as worrying, when discussing our future actions in the region, the speech listed operational objectives without ever defining the strategic victory conditions we are fighting for. This omission should seriously disturb any national security professional, and any American who is unsatisfied with the last 16 years of disastrous policy decisions which have led to thousands of Americans killed and trillions of taxpayer dollars spent in ways that have not brought security or victory.”

Born in England to Hungarian parents, Gorka, 46, is known for his hard-line stands on Islam and his past involvement in right-wing Hungarian politics.

He was recruited into the White House as a senior member of the Strategic Initiatives Group, an internal think tank that was to report to Bannon and Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser. But the group quickly disbanded, leaving Gorka without a clear portfolio.







T-72M1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/900694348257517568




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/901312588201377792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/901108999206129664

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## T-72M1

RabzonKhan said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/901312588201377792
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/901108999206129664


Only that this one will last a good 8 long years, obongo isn't coming back, and muller has nothing.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Trump’s business sought deal on a Trump Tower in Moscow while he ran for president

While Donald Trump was running for president in late 2015 and early 2016, his company was pursuing a plan to develop a massive Trump Tower in Moscow, according to several people familiar with the proposal and new records reviewed by Trump Organization lawyers.

As part of the discussions, a Russian-born real estate developer urged Trump to come to Moscow to tout the proposal and suggested that he could get President Vladimir Putin to say “great things” about Trump, according to several people who have been briefed on his correspondence.

The developer, Felix Sater, predicted in a November 2015 email that he and Trump Organization leaders would soon be celebrating — both one of the biggest residential projects in real estate history and Donald Trump’s election as president, according to two of the people with knowledge of the exchange.

Sater wrote to Trump Organization Executive Vice President Michael Cohen, “something to the effect of, ‘Can you believe two guys from Brooklyn are going to elect a president?’ ” said one person briefed on the email exchange. Sater emigrated from what was then the Soviet Union when he was 6 and grew up in Brooklyn.


Trump never went to Moscow as Sater proposed. And although investors and Trump’s company signed a letter of intent, they lacked the land and permits to proceed and the project was abandoned at the end of January 2016, just before the presidential primaries began, several people familiar with the proposal said.


Nevertheless, the details of the deal, which have not previously been disclosed, provide evidence that Trump’s business was actively pursuing significant commercial interests in Russia at the same time he was campaigning to be president — and in a position to determine U.S.-Russia relations. The new details from the emails, which are scheduled to be turned over to congressional investigators soon, also point to the likelihood of additional contacts between Russia-connected individuals and Trump associates during his presidential bid.

White House officials declined to comment for this report. Cohen, a longtime Trump aide who remains Trump’s personal attorney, and his lawyer have also declined to comment.


In recent months, contacts between high-ranking and lower- level Trump aides and Russians have emerged. Attorney General Jeff Sessions, then a U.S. senator and campaign adviser, twice met Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak.

Donald Trump Jr. organized a June 2016 meeting with campaign aide Jared Kushner, campaign manager Paul Manafort and a Russian lawyer after the president’s eldest son was promised that the lawyer would bring damaging information about Hillary Clinton as part of a Russian government effort to help the campaign.

Internal emails also show campaign adviser George Papadopoulos repeatedly sought to organize meetings with campaign officials, including Trump, and Putin or other Russians. His efforts were rebuffed.

The negotiations for the Moscow project ended before Trump’s business ties to Russia had become a major issue in the campaign. Trump denied having any business connections to Russia in July 2016, tweeting, “for the record, I have ZERO investments in Russia” and then insisting at a news conference the following day, “I have nothing to do with Russia.”

Discussions about the Moscow project began in earnest in September 2015, according to people briefed on the deal. An unidentified investor planned to build the project and, under a licensing agreement, put Trump’s name on it. Cohen acted as a lead negotiator for the Trump Organization. It is unclear how involved or aware Trump was of the negotiations.

As the talks progressed, Trump voiced numerous supportive comments about Putin, setting himself apart from his Republican rivals for the nomination.

By the end of 2015, Putin began offering praise in return.

“He says that he wants to move to another, closer level of relations. Can we really not welcome that? Of course, we welcome that,” Putin told reporters during his annual end-of-the year news conference. He called Trump a “colorful and talented” person. Trump said afterward that the compliment was an “honor.”

Though Putin’s comments came shortly after Sater suggested that the Russian president would speak favorably about Trump, there is no indication that the two are connected.

There is no public record that Trump has ever spoken about the effort to build a Trump Tower in 2015 and 2016.

Trump’s interests in building in Moscow, however, are long-standing. He had attempted to build a Trump property for three decades, starting with a failed effort in 1987 to partner with the Soviet government on a hotel project.

“Russia is one of the hottest places in the world for investment,” he said in a 2007 court deposition.

“We will be in Moscow at some point,” he promised in the deposition.

Sater was involved in at least one of those previous efforts. In 2005, the Trump Organization gave his development company, the Bayrock Group, an exclusive one-year deal to attempt to build a Moscow Trump Tower. Sater located a site for the project — an abandoned pencil factory — and worked closely with Trump on the deal, which did not come to fruition.

In an unrelated court case in 2008, Sater said in a deposition that he would personally provide Trump “verbal updates” on the deal.

“When I’d come back, pop my head into Mr. Trump’s office and tell him, you know, ‘Moving forward on the Moscow deal.’ And he would say, ‘All right,’ ” Sater said.

In the same testimony, Sater described traveling with Trump’s children, including joining Ivanka and Donald Trump Jr. on a trip to Moscow at their father’s request.

“They were on their way by themselves, and he was all concerned,” Sater said. “He asked if I wouldn’t mind joining them and looking after them while they were in Moscow.”

Alan Garten, a lawyer for the Trump Organization, told The Washington Post last year that Sater happened to be in Moscow at the same time as Trump’s two adult children. “There was no accompanying them to Moscow,” he said.

Neither Sater nor his attorney responded to requests for comment.

Trump has repeatedly tried to distance himself from Sater, who served time in jail after assaulting a man with the stem of a broken margarita glass during a 1991 bar fight and then pleaded guilty in 1998 to his role in an organized- crime-linked stock fraud. Sater’s sentencing was delayed for years while he cooperated with the federal government on a series of criminal and national security-related investigations, federal officials have said.

During that time, Sater worked as an executive with Bayrock, whose offices were in Trump Tower, and brokered deals to license Trump’s name for developments in multiple U.S. and foreign cities. In 2010, Trump allowed Sater to briefly work out of Trump Organization office space and use a business card that identified him as a “senior adviser to Donald Trump.”

Still, when asked about Sater in 2013 court deposition, Trump said: “If he were sitting in the room right now, I really wouldn’t know what he looked like.” He added that he had spoken with Sater “not many” times.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...b4e4bb76a3a_story.html?utm_term=.b23dd7bae11f

But Trump said he's got nothing to do with Russia? What gives?

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## RabzonKhan

*'We Are Living Through a Battle for the Soul of This Nation'*

*The former vice president calls on Americans to do what President Trump has not.*

JOE BIDEN AUG 27, 2017

In January of 2009, I stood waiting in Wilmington, Delaware, for a train carrying the first African American elected president of the United States. I was there to join him as vice president on the way to a historic Inauguration. It was a moment of extraordinary hope for our nation—but I couldn’t help thinking about a darker time years before at that very site.

My mind’s eye drifted back to 1968. I could see the flames burning Wilmington, the violence erupting on the news of Martin Luther King Jr.’s assassination, the federal troops taking over my city.

*I was living history—and reliving it—at the same time. And the images racing through my mind were a vivid demonstration that when it comes to race in America, hope doesn’t travel alone. It’s shadowed by a long trail of violence and hate.*

*In Charlottesville, that long trail emerged once again into plain view not only for America, but for the whole world to see. The crazed, angry faces illuminated by torches. The chants echoing the same anti-Semitic bile heard across Europe in the 1930s. The neo-Nazis, Klansmen, and white supremacists emerging from dark rooms and remote fields and the anonymity of the web into the bright light of day on the streets of a historically significant American city.*

If it wasn’t clear before, it’s clear now: We are living through a battle for the soul of this nation.

*The giant forward steps we have taken in recent years on civil liberties and civil rights and human rights are being met by a ferocious pushback from the oldest and darkest forces in America. Are we really surprised they rose up? Are we really surprised they lashed back? Did we really think they would be extinguished with a whimper rather than a fight?*

Did we think the charlatans and the con-men and the false prophets who have long dotted our history wouldn’t revisit us, once again prop up the immigrant as the source of all our troubles, and look to prey on the hopelessness and despair that has grown up in the hollowed-out cities and towns of Ohio and Michigan and Pennsylvania and the long-forgotten rural stretches of West Virginia and Kentucky?

We have fought this battle before—but today we have a special challenge.

*Today we have an American president who has publicly proclaimed a moral equivalency between neo-Nazis and Klansmen and those who would oppose their venom and hate.*

*We have an American president who has emboldened white supremacists with messages of comfort and support.*

This is a moment for this nation to declare what the president can’t with any clarity, consistency, or conviction: There is no place for these hate groups in America. Hatred of blacks, Jews, immigrants—all who are seen as “the other”—won’t be accepted or tolerated or given safe harbor anywhere in this nation.

*That’s the America I know. That’s who I believe we are. And in the hours and days after Charlottesville, America’s moral conscience began to stir. The nation’s military leadership immediately took a firm stand. Some of America’s most prominent CEOs spoke out. Political, community, and faith leaders raised their voices. Charitable organizations have begun to take a stand. And we should never forget the courage of that small group of University of Virginia students who stared down the mob and its torches on that Friday night.*

The greatness of America is that—not always at first, and sometimes at enormous pain and cost—we have always met Lincoln’s challenge to embrace the “better angels of our nature.” Our history is proof of what King said—the long arc of history does “bend towards justice.”

A week after Charlottesville, in Boston, we saw the truth of America: Those with the courage to oppose hate far outnumber those who promote it.

*Then a week after Boston, we saw the truth of this president: He won’t stop. His contempt for the U.S. Constitution and willingness to divide this nation knows no bounds. Now he’s pardoned a law-enforcement official who terrorized the Latino community, violated its constitutional rights, defied a federal court order to stop, and ran a prison system so rife with torture and abuse he himself called it a “concentration camp.”*

You, me, and the citizens of this country carry a special burden in 2017. We have to do what our president has not. We have to uphold America’s values. We have to do what he will not. We have to defend our Constitution. We have to remember our kids are watching. We have to show the world America is still a beacon of light.

Joined together, we are more than 300 million strong. Joined together, we will win this battle for our soul. *Because if there’s one thing I know about the American people, it’s this: When it has mattered most, they have never let this nation down.* *Link*













T-72M1 said:


> Only that this one will last a good 8 long years, obongo isn't coming back, and muller has nothing.


Looking at his seven months disastrous record, one can clearly see that he is more isolated than ever, almost every poll shows that he’s lost the support of majority of independents and without the support of independent voters he has no chance of getting re-elected.

You are right, Obama is not coming back, but his election victories record:

2008, electoral vote 365, popular vote 69.5 million.

2012, electoral vote 332, popular vote 65.9 million. *Link* No matter what, Trump will never be able to overcome, that’s for sure! 

I don’t have a crystal ball to predict the outcome of Robert Mueller’s investigation, but looking at the developments in the investigation, I don’t think it would be wise to just reject it off the cuff.

And now the million-dollar question, what is your secret for getting banned almost every week?

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## ptldM3

F-22Raptor said:


> Trump’s business sought deal on a Trump Tower in Moscow while he ran for president
> 
> While Donald Trump was running for president in late 2015 and early 2016, his company was pursuing a plan to develop a massive Trump Tower in Moscow, according to several people familiar with the proposal and new records reviewed by Trump Organization lawyers.
> 
> As part of the discussions, a Russian-born real estate developer urged Trump to come to Moscow to tout the proposal and suggested that he could get President Vladimir Putin to say “great things” about Trump, according to several people who have been briefed on his correspondence.
> 
> The developer, Felix Sater, predicted in a November 2015 email that he and Trump Organization leaders would soon be celebrating — both one of the biggest residential projects in real estate history and Donald Trump’s election as president, according to two of the people with knowledge of the exchange.
> 
> Sater wrote to Trump Organization Executive Vice President Michael Cohen, “something to the effect of, ‘Can you believe two guys from Brooklyn are going to elect a president?’ ” said one person briefed on the email exchange. Sater emigrated from what was then the Soviet Union when he was 6 and grew up in Brooklyn.
> 
> 
> Trump never went to Moscow as Sater proposed. And although investors and Trump’s company signed a letter of intent, they lacked the land and permits to proceed and the project was abandoned at the end of January 2016, just before the presidential primaries began, several people familiar with the proposal said.
> 
> 
> Nevertheless, the details of the deal, which have not previously been disclosed, provide evidence that Trump’s business was actively pursuing significant commercial interests in Russia at the same time he was campaigning to be president — and in a position to determine U.S.-Russia relations. The new details from the emails, which are scheduled to be turned over to congressional investigators soon, also point to the likelihood of additional contacts between Russia-connected individuals and Trump associates during his presidential bid.
> 
> White House officials declined to comment for this report. Cohen, a longtime Trump aide who remains Trump’s personal attorney, and his lawyer have also declined to comment.
> 
> 
> In recent months, contacts between high-ranking and lower- level Trump aides and Russians have emerged. Attorney General Jeff Sessions, then a U.S. senator and campaign adviser, twice met Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak.
> 
> Donald Trump Jr. organized a June 2016 meeting with campaign aide Jared Kushner, campaign manager Paul Manafort and a Russian lawyer after the president’s eldest son was promised that the lawyer would bring damaging information about Hillary Clinton as part of a Russian government effort to help the campaign.
> 
> Internal emails also show campaign adviser George Papadopoulos repeatedly sought to organize meetings with campaign officials, including Trump, and Putin or other Russians. His efforts were rebuffed.
> 
> The negotiations for the Moscow project ended before Trump’s business ties to Russia had become a major issue in the campaign. Trump denied having any business connections to Russia in July 2016, tweeting, “for the record, I have ZERO investments in Russia” and then insisting at a news conference the following day, “I have nothing to do with Russia.”
> 
> Discussions about the Moscow project began in earnest in September 2015, according to people briefed on the deal. An unidentified investor planned to build the project and, under a licensing agreement, put Trump’s name on it. Cohen acted as a lead negotiator for the Trump Organization. It is unclear how involved or aware Trump was of the negotiations.
> 
> As the talks progressed, Trump voiced numerous supportive comments about Putin, setting himself apart from his Republican rivals for the nomination.
> 
> By the end of 2015, Putin began offering praise in return.
> 
> “He says that he wants to move to another, closer level of relations. Can we really not welcome that? Of course, we welcome that,” Putin told reporters during his annual end-of-the year news conference. He called Trump a “colorful and talented” person. Trump said afterward that the compliment was an “honor.”
> 
> Though Putin’s comments came shortly after Sater suggested that the Russian president would speak favorably about Trump, there is no indication that the two are connected.
> 
> There is no public record that Trump has ever spoken about the effort to build a Trump Tower in 2015 and 2016.
> 
> Trump’s interests in building in Moscow, however, are long-standing. He had attempted to build a Trump property for three decades, starting with a failed effort in 1987 to partner with the Soviet government on a hotel project.
> 
> “Russia is one of the hottest places in the world for investment,” he said in a 2007 court deposition.
> 
> “We will be in Moscow at some point,” he promised in the deposition.
> 
> Sater was involved in at least one of those previous efforts. In 2005, the Trump Organization gave his development company, the Bayrock Group, an exclusive one-year deal to attempt to build a Moscow Trump Tower. Sater located a site for the project — an abandoned pencil factory — and worked closely with Trump on the deal, which did not come to fruition.
> 
> In an unrelated court case in 2008, Sater said in a deposition that he would personally provide Trump “verbal updates” on the deal.
> 
> “When I’d come back, pop my head into Mr. Trump’s office and tell him, you know, ‘Moving forward on the Moscow deal.’ And he would say, ‘All right,’ ” Sater said.
> 
> In the same testimony, Sater described traveling with Trump’s children, including joining Ivanka and Donald Trump Jr. on a trip to Moscow at their father’s request.
> 
> “They were on their way by themselves, and he was all concerned,” Sater said. “He asked if I wouldn’t mind joining them and looking after them while they were in Moscow.”
> 
> Alan Garten, a lawyer for the Trump Organization, told The Washington Post last year that Sater happened to be in Moscow at the same time as Trump’s two adult children. “There was no accompanying them to Moscow,” he said.
> 
> Neither Sater nor his attorney responded to requests for comment.
> 
> Trump has repeatedly tried to distance himself from Sater, who served time in jail after assaulting a man with the stem of a broken margarita glass during a 1991 bar fight and then pleaded guilty in 1998 to his role in an organized- crime-linked stock fraud. Sater’s sentencing was delayed for years while he cooperated with the federal government on a series of criminal and national security-related investigations, federal officials have said.
> 
> During that time, Sater worked as an executive with Bayrock, whose offices were in Trump Tower, and brokered deals to license Trump’s name for developments in multiple U.S. and foreign cities. In 2010, Trump allowed Sater to briefly work out of Trump Organization office space and use a business card that identified him as a “senior adviser to Donald Trump.”
> 
> Still, when asked about Sater in 2013 court deposition, Trump said: “If he were sitting in the room right now, I really wouldn’t know what he looked like.” He added that he had spoken with Sater “not many” times.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...b4e4bb76a3a_story.html?utm_term=.b23dd7bae11f
> 
> But Trump said he's got nothing to do with Russia? What gives?




Do you liberals ever get tired of your lies? Why should we believe this when almost literally everything the liberal media has claimed about Trump was a hoax?

He didn't pay taxes in over 20 year remember? In reality he payed 32 million in a single year. The Russian hotel tapes are a complete hoax as well. Even James Comey testified that he never claimed Trump asked him to stop an investigation like the media was claiming. Then the media claimed Trump was lying about being wire taped when he was actually under surveillance and the media as well as Obama was the one lying. The list is dismal, leftist media is less credible then the National Enquirer. There is undercover video of CNN producers and staff admitting they are spreading "bullshit" about Russia for ratings 



When you liberal are not too busy making up fake news stories you are busy talking about Trumps skin color (who is racist again) too busy praising Antifa, too busy denying Antifa causes violence, too busy praising the assasination of a Russian diplomat, too busy making up hysteria about some fantom Nazis that are poping up out of everyone's bed and in general the leftist are too busy attacking Trumps family and mocking his wife's accent accent (again who is racists)?


----------



## CBU-105

RabzonKhan said:


> Looking at his seven months disastrous record, one can clearly see that he is more isolated than ever, almost every poll shows that he’s lost the support of majority of independents and without the support of independent voters he has no chance of getting re-elected.


Not at all, as far as the Trump voters go:

he pulled out of the TPP his first? day in office.

he got out of the Paris climate thing. (yes, this is a win for a lot of people on the other side, both blue and white collar)

he got an uber literalist conservative judge into your supreme court. no small thing, for such an appointment will far outlast president Trump's own time in office, and probably his lifetime.

he got the supreme court to go along with his travel ban from enemy nation Iran plus the other failed terror ravaged states.

don't go by the polls, remember how horribly wrong they had it earlier ? 



RabzonKhan said:


> You are right, Obama is not coming back, but his election victories record:
> 
> 2008, electoral vote 365, popular vote 69.5 million.
> 
> 2012, electoral vote 332, popular vote 65.9 million. *Link* No matter what, Trump will never be able to overcome, that’s for sure!


You do realize that a lot of those same "white" voters flipped for Trump in a lot of those formerly democrat party bastions, right ? The slim margins mean nothing, he pulled off the impossible.

Trump is a populist, and socially he's a liberal.. for example he's way more relaxed on the gay issue than Obama, who had to wait for years before he went all in. Yes, he banned "trans" frrom your military and Mike Pence is his VP but Trump will never go after gay marriage for instance. Those are victories that the libs have won, not open for debate, a win for personal liberty etc.



RabzonKhan said:


> I don’t have a crystal ball to predict the outcome of Robert Mueller’s investigation, but looking at the developments in the investigation, I don’t think it would be wise to just reject it off the cuff.



Muller's got nothing on the president, at most they'll try and force nail Flynn or Manafort or someone like that on petty (or srs) charges.

That whole story is BS, Trump is an American nationalist, not a russian anything.



> And now the million-dollar question, what is your secret for getting banned almost every week?


talking shit about saudi arabia and related topics ?


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## LA se Karachi

*It's been more than a week since Trump was above 35% approval in the gold standard of presidential indicators*
 
Allan Smith




President Donald Trump appears to have bottomed out in the Gallup daily presidential tracking poll.

*For the past eight days, Trump's approval rating in the poll has not risen above 35%, falling each day at either 35% or 34%, tied for the lowest mark of his presidency. 


His disapproval mark over that stretch has stuck at either 59% or 60%, close to his presidential high of 61%. *

*The eight-day stretch, which began with Gallup's August 20 poll, is the worst of his presidency. Before then, Trump's approval had twice slipped to 35% or below: He hit 34% on August 13 and 35% on March 28. *

On the disapproval side, Trump's rating had reached at least 59% on 13 occasions before his current eight-day slide.

 
*Here's the Gallup tracking poll:*







Gallup has tracked the approval of every president since Harry S. Truman. Only Gerald Ford and Bill Clinton have hit ratings nearly as low as Trump this early in an administration — Ford had 37% approval on his 157th day in office, and Clinton had 37% approval on his 137th day.

No president has gone below 37% within their first 520 days in office — a percentage Trump has met consistently within his first 220 days as president.
_
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gallup-poll-low-approval-rating-2017-8_

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## LA se Karachi

*Kamala Harris joins with Bernie Sanders to back ‘Medicare-for-all’ health care bill*
*
By Angela Hart*






_Sen. Kamala Harris said she would joining with Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders to support a Medicare-for-all health care system._​
U.S. Sen. Kamala Harris on Wednesday told a crowd of mostly liberal activists that she plans to co-sponsor a “Medicare-for-all” bill pushed by Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders that would create a national health insurance system.

Hundreds of people who packed the Beebe Memorial Cathedral church roared and cheered in applause when Harris said she’d “break some news” about her plans. Harris posted on Twitter shortly after that she intends to “co-sponsor the Medicare for All bill because it’s just the right thing to do.”

The term is synonymous with single-payer health care, a system in which the government organizes health care financing, ending the need for insurance companies.

Her message was the opposite to that of her U.S. Senate colleague, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, who balked at supporting a single-payer system at an event in San Francisco Tuesday night, instead voicing support for a public insurance option to compete with private plans.
Sanders quickly responded to Harris on Twitter, saying “Thank you @KamalaHarris for your support. Let’s make health care a right, not a privilege.”

In a follow-up interview, Harris told The Sacramento Bee that public attention on the national health care debate, following two failed Republican attempts to repeal and replace Obamacare, could be a signal that the time is right to adopt a single-payer system.

“As we talk about moving toward a single-payer system, I think that there’s certainly momentum and energy around that, and when I get back to D.C., I’ll have a better sense of where people are now that they’ve been home,” Harris said. “I think that the recent history on the issue of health care is very telling...Americans are making it very clear when they defeated the repeal of the (Affordable Care Act) that they don’t want us playing politics with their health care.”

During the town hall, Harris implored hundreds of people in the audience to fight Trump and the national Republican agenda.

“This is a moment in time that is challenging us to fight – to not turn a blind eye, but to face and confront the truths that are challenging this country,” Harris said, repeating the phrase several times.

Harris said Democrats in Washington and California must continue fighting the stance of Trump and his administration on health care, climate change, gay marriage and white supremacy.

“I believe we should keep an open mind...but the wrong side is the side with the torches and the swastikas,” Harris said, a dig at Trump’s initial response to the August white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va.

Outside the town hall, some who identified themselves as strong Harris supporters carried signs endorsing a shelved California Senate proposal to create a universal, single-payer system for the state.

“Everyone deserves good health care,” said Abhimanyudas Das, 66, of Vallejo, who carried a sign showing his support for Senate Bill 562 from state Sens. Ricardo Lara, D-Bell Gardens, and Toni Atkins, D-San Diego.

“We all deserve it,” Das said.

_http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article170350962.html_

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## cloud4000

LA se Karachi said:


> *Kamala Harris joins with Bernie Sanders to back ‘Medicare-for-all’ health care bill*
> *
> By Angela Hart*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Sen. Kamala Harris said she would joining with Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders to support a Medicare-for-all health care system._​
> U.S. Sen. Kamala Harris on Wednesday told a crowd of mostly liberal activists that she plans to co-sponsor a “Medicare-for-all” bill pushed by Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders that would create a national health insurance system.
> 
> Hundreds of people who packed the Beebe Memorial Cathedral church roared and cheered in applause when Harris said she’d “break some news” about her plans. Harris posted on Twitter shortly after that she intends to “co-sponsor the Medicare for All bill because it’s just the right thing to do.”
> 
> The term is synonymous with single-payer health care, a system in which the government organizes health care financing, ending the need for insurance companies.
> 
> Her message was the opposite to that of her U.S. Senate colleague, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, who balked at supporting a single-payer system at an event in San Francisco Tuesday night, instead voicing support for a public insurance option to compete with private plans.
> Sanders quickly responded to Harris on Twitter, saying “Thank you @KamalaHarris for your support. Let’s make health care a right, not a privilege.”
> 
> In a follow-up interview, Harris told The Sacramento Bee that public attention on the national health care debate, following two failed Republican attempts to repeal and replace Obamacare, could be a signal that the time is right to adopt a single-payer system.
> 
> “As we talk about moving toward a single-payer system, I think that there’s certainly momentum and energy around that, and when I get back to D.C., I’ll have a better sense of where people are now that they’ve been home,” Harris said. “I think that the recent history on the issue of health care is very telling...Americans are making it very clear when they defeated the repeal of the (Affordable Care Act) that they don’t want us playing politics with their health care.”
> 
> During the town hall, Harris implored hundreds of people in the audience to fight Trump and the national Republican agenda.
> 
> “This is a moment in time that is challenging us to fight – to not turn a blind eye, but to face and confront the truths that are challenging this country,” Harris said, repeating the phrase several times.
> 
> Harris said Democrats in Washington and California must continue fighting the stance of Trump and his administration on health care, climate change, gay marriage and white supremacy.
> 
> “I believe we should keep an open mind...but the wrong side is the side with the torches and the swastikas,” Harris said, a dig at Trump’s initial response to the August white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va.
> 
> Outside the town hall, some who identified themselves as strong Harris supporters carried signs endorsing a shelved California Senate proposal to create a universal, single-payer system for the state.
> 
> “Everyone deserves good health care,” said Abhimanyudas Das, 66, of Vallejo, who carried a sign showing his support for Senate Bill 562 from state Sens. Ricardo Lara, D-Bell Gardens, and Toni Atkins, D-San Diego.
> 
> “We all deserve it,” Das said.
> 
> _http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article170350962.html_



Government-run healthcare? I don't think so. Wait till people hear what it entails: rationing.


----------



## LA se Karachi

cloud4000 said:


> Government-run healthcare? I don't think so. Wait till people hear what it entails: rationing.




The single-payer system seems to be working just fine in Canada...

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## Gomig-21

LA se Karachi said:


> *Kamala Harris joins with Bernie Sanders to back ‘Medicare-for-all’ health care bill*
> *
> By Angela Hart*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Sen. Kamala Harris said she would joining with Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders to support a Medicare-for-all health care system._​
> U.S. Sen. Kamala Harris on Wednesday told a crowd of mostly liberal activists that she plans to co-sponsor a “Medicare-for-all” bill pushed by Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders that would create a national health insurance system.
> 
> Hundreds of people who packed the Beebe Memorial Cathedral church roared and cheered in applause when Harris said she’d “break some news” about her plans. Harris posted on Twitter shortly after that she intends to “co-sponsor the Medicare for All bill because it’s just the right thing to do.”
> 
> The term is synonymous with single-payer health care, a system in which the government organizes health care financing, ending the need for insurance companies.
> 
> Her message was the opposite to that of her U.S. Senate colleague, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, who balked at supporting a single-payer system at an event in San Francisco Tuesday night, instead voicing support for a public insurance option to compete with private plans.
> Sanders quickly responded to Harris on Twitter, saying “Thank you @KamalaHarris for your support. Let’s make health care a right, not a privilege.”
> 
> In a follow-up interview, Harris told The Sacramento Bee that public attention on the national health care debate, following two failed Republican attempts to repeal and replace Obamacare, could be a signal that the time is right to adopt a single-payer system.
> 
> “As we talk about moving toward a single-payer system, I think that there’s certainly momentum and energy around that, and when I get back to D.C., I’ll have a better sense of where people are now that they’ve been home,” Harris said. “I think that the recent history on the issue of health care is very telling...Americans are making it very clear when they defeated the repeal of the (Affordable Care Act) that they don’t want us playing politics with their health care.”
> 
> During the town hall, Harris implored hundreds of people in the audience to fight Trump and the national Republican agenda.
> 
> “This is a moment in time that is challenging us to fight – to not turn a blind eye, but to face and confront the truths that are challenging this country,” Harris said, repeating the phrase several times.
> 
> Harris said Democrats in Washington and California must continue fighting the stance of Trump and his administration on health care, climate change, gay marriage and white supremacy.
> 
> “I believe we should keep an open mind...but the wrong side is the side with the torches and the swastikas,” Harris said, a dig at Trump’s initial response to the August white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va.
> 
> Outside the town hall, some who identified themselves as strong Harris supporters carried signs endorsing a shelved California Senate proposal to create a universal, single-payer system for the state.
> 
> “Everyone deserves good health care,” said Abhimanyudas Das, 66, of Vallejo, who carried a sign showing his support for Senate Bill 562 from state Sens. Ricardo Lara, D-Bell Gardens, and Toni Atkins, D-San Diego.
> 
> “We all deserve it,” Das said.
> 
> _http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article170350962.html_



This would be a monumental task, considering the Republicans are the majority in the Senate and Congress and conservatives are almost guaranteed to oppose beneficial programs and especially one of this magnitude that would essentially deny hundreds of billions of $ to insurance companies. Sad but true, and even if a bill like this would miraculously make it to the President's desk, you know this guy would veto it without even reading it.

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## pothead

LA se Karachi said:


> The single-payer system seems to be working just fine in Canada...



Canada population -30 + million
US population - 300+ million

Canada and Australia have excellent primary health care system but the wait times are a killer. The healthcare system does not cover things like eyes, dental etc etc as well.
Emergency - very good
non-Emergency - you are fooked.

Many in these countries do have outside health insurance which are excellent and cover a lot of things.

A nice article on the same.

https://www.formosapost.com/pros-and-cons-of-universal-health-care-in-canada/


----------



## LA se Karachi

pothead said:


> Canada population -30 + million
> US population - 300+ million
> 
> Canada and Australia have excellent primary health care system but the wait times are a killer. The healthcare system does not cover things like eyes, dental etc etc as well.
> Emergency - very good
> non-Emergency - you are fooked.
> 
> Many in these countries do have outside health insurance which are excellent and cover a lot of things.
> 
> A nice article on the same.
> 
> https://www.formosapost.com/pros-and-cons-of-universal-health-care-in-canada/




I don't agree with your simple conclusions. But your article isn't bad. I read it. 



Gomig-21 said:


> This would be a monumental task, considering the Republicans are the majority in the Senate and Congress and conservatives are almost guaranteed to oppose beneficial programs and especially one of this magnitude that would essentially deny hundreds of billions of $ to insurance companies. Sad but true, and even if a bill like this would miraculously make it to the President's desk, you know this guy would veto it without even reading it.




Ya, there's no chance of a Republican Senate passing it, or a Republican President signing it. But, it is nice to gather support for the measure. Support for these things takes time. It would be nice to have the Democratic Party support single payer health insurance at some point. I do realize that it could take years, however.

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## pothead

LA se Karachi said:


> I don't agree with your simple conclusions. But your article isn't bad. I read it.



They are not so simple, I agree.

My point was, universal health care is NOT really universal health care in Canada or Australia.
It's only Emergency Health care.

One of the reasons why a patient waits years for a simple knee replacement in these countries, is a pointer to the other side, which deals with economics.
If USA wants a universal health care on par with even that of Canada, the taxes have to substantially improve and I don't mean by 5%. we are talking about double digits.

There was a debate on numbers between Bernie and a republican. It was eye opening.


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## Gomig-21

pothead said:


> If USA wants a universal health care on par with even that of Canada, the taxes have to substantially improve and I don't mean by 5%. we are talking about double digits.
> 
> There was a debate on numbers between Bernie and a republican. It was eye opening.



I've followed some of this stuff and there was someone (I forget who it was) who formulated the math that would be needed to create an effective universal health plan and he claimed that the amount of money paid in premiums would essentially offset the increase in tax that would be needed to pay for a universal health care program. But the offset wouldn't be distributed evenly to those who pay premiums for their health insurance and it ends up falling more so in the hands of those who earn that proverbial "$200K a year or more," and that kind of proposition never sat well with any of the many who always oppose raising taxes on the wealthy. Conservatives have opposed that type of tax increase since the forefathers that basically promotes a welfare system at the cost of those who have earned their success and why should these people, essentially be penalized for being successful and earning more money in a capitalistic society, especially one that takes away profits form large institutions such as insurance companies which are tied into mega financial institutions as well. Once those entities are threatened, all hell breaks loose. Those are the institutions that get bailed out by the government, not penalized. It's a tough nut to crack.

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## RabzonKhan

Well, he does it again, what freaking embarrassment.

Pres Trump posted a picture of him with his wife and wished the country a happy Labor Day on Twitter:

“We are building our future with American hands, American labor, American iron, aluminum and steel. Happy Labor Day”

But there is one huge problem, in the picture his wife is wearing a dress by Greek designer and was made in Italy. There goes, American hands, American labor 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/904745562771259392


Trump got Lost, while standing directly in front of his limousine...

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> But there is one huge problem, in the picture his wife is wearing a dress by Greek designer and was made in Italy. There goes, American hands, American labor



Not to mention that she is an immigrant...possibly an illegal one? LOL! 
_
An AP investigation last November found Melania Trump lacked proper work visas when she was employed as a model after arriving in the U.S. from her native Slovenia more than two decades ago.

“No one in the Trump operation has released any of the documentation to indicate what was the circumstance, or whether she had full legal status,’’ Skinner told POLITICO California in an interview this week. “We only know they had a lawyer look at whatever papers she chose to give."

http://www.politico.com/states/cali...ding-melania-trump-immigration-records-109126
_
Maybe she's a DACA member! lol

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## RabzonKhan

*Top senator: Russian Facebook ads were 'just the tip of the iceberg'*
Natasha Bertrand

The vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Mark Warner, said Thursday that the purchase of $100,000 worth of Facebook ads from Russian-linked accounts during the 2016 election was only "the tip of the iceberg."Warner said during a panel event hosted by the Intelligence and National Security Alliance that it may be time to pass legislation requiring social-media companies to disclose the sources of campaign-related ads, and that he wanted to see "the back end" of Facebook's ad operations during the election.The Senate Intelligence Committee is investigating Russia's election interference, carried out via hacks on the Democratic National Committee and a fake-news campaign targeting Hillary Clinton and Democrats across various social-media platforms.

Days after Donald Trump won the election, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg dismissed the idea that the platform had been used to manipulate voters as "pretty crazy."
*
But Facebook's chief security officer, Alex Stamos, said in a statement Wednesday that after a months-long review, the company found "approximately $100,000 in ad spending from June of 2015 to May of 2017 — associated with roughly 3,000 ads — that was connected to about 470 inauthentic accounts and Pages in violation of our policies."

Facebook found upon analyzing those accounts and pages that they "were affiliated with one another and likely operated out of Russia," Stamos said.*

Americans "ought to be able to know if there is foreign-sponsored [internet] content coming into their electoral process," Warner said Thursday. "That becomes a method of influence exponentially, I would argue, bigger than TV and radio."

Democratic Rep. Adam Schiff, the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, said in a statement on Wednesday that he too was "keenly interested in Russia's use of social media platforms, both the use of bots and trolls to spread disinformation and propaganda, including through the use of paid online advertising."
*
An 'army of well-paid trolls'*

Schiff told MSNBC on Thursday morning that he also wanted to know how sophisticated the ads were — in terms of their content and targets — to determine whether they had any help from the Trump campaign.
*
Facebook said in its statement that about 25% of the ads purchased by Russians "were geographically targeted." Facebook representatives told lawmakers behind closed doors Wednesday that the ad sales had been traced back to a notorious Russian "troll farm,"* according to The Washington Post.
*
Warner said Thursday that while "we know about the hacking, as a former tech guy, what really concerns me is that there were upwards of 1,000 paid internet trolls working out of Russia taking over computers, making botnets, and generating news down to specific areas."

Adrian Chen, a freelance journalist who's now a staff writer at The New Yorker, researched Russia's "army of well-paid trolls" for an explosive exposé published in The New York Times Magazine in June 2015. He told Longform's Max Linsky in a podcast that December that he found that many of the trolls he had been monitoring "turned into conservative accounts, like fake conservatives" as the election progressed.*

"I don't know what's going on, but they're all tweeting about Donald Trump and stuff," Chen told Linsky.

Linsky asked Chen who he thought "was paying for that."

"I don't know," Chen replied. "I feel like it's some kind of really opaque strategy of electing Donald Trump to undermine the US or something. Like false-flag kind of thing. You know, that's how I started thinking about all this stuff after being in Russia."

In his research from St. Petersburg, Chen discovered that Russian internet trolls — paid by the Kremlin to spread false information — had been behind several "highly coordinated campaigns" to deceive the American public.

It's a brand of information warfare known as "dezinformatsiya" that the Russians have used since at least the Cold War. The disinformation campaigns are only one "active measure" tool used by Russian intelligence to sow discord among — and within — allies perceived as hostile to Russia.

"Part of our responsibility is to put the American public on a higher level of alert that this time it was Russia, but it could be other foreign nations as well," Warner said Thursday. "We are in a whole new realm around cyber that provides opportunities — but also huge, huge threats for basic democracy." *Link*





ptldM3 said:


> Do you liberals ever get tired of your lies? Why should we believe this when almost literally everything the liberal media has claimed about Trump was a hoax?
> 
> He didn't pay taxes in over 20 year remember? In reality he payed 32 million in a single year. The Russian hotel tapes are a complete hoax as well. Even James Comey testified that he never claimed Trump asked him to stop an investigation like the media was claiming. *Then the media claimed Trump was lying about being wire taped when he was actually under surveillance and the media as well as Obama was the one lying.* The list is dismal, leftist media is less credible then the National Enquirer. There is undercover video of CNN producers and staff admitting they are spreading "bullshit" about Russia for ratings


The media and Pres Obama was telling the truth, Trump was lying and now even his own Justice Department has admitted that there is no evidence to support Trump’s claim that Pres Obama ordered the wiretapping of Trump Towers during the election campaign.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/837989835818287106

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/837996746236182529
"There is no evidence to support President Donald Trump's claim that President Barack Obama ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower during the 2016 presidential campaign, the Justice Department said in a new court filing.

The DOJ made the statement in a motion for summary judgment filed Friday in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by the watchdog group American Oversight." *Link*

Trump is an embarrassment!


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## RabzonKhan

CBU-105 said:


> Not at all, as far as the Trump voters go:


Mind you, I was specifically talking about independent voters.

On one thing, we both can agree is that most independents voted for Trump because they believe he will be better for the economy and jobs. During the election campaign, Trump always had a commanding lead over Hillary on the economy in most polls. In a latest poll, 49% of independents said they believed Trump’s decisions in the office have weakened the US economy and only 31% said it has grown stronger under him. *Link*



> he pulled out of the TPP his first? day in office.


Well, that was easy, since the agreement was not approved by the Congress, all he had to do was sign a piece of paper. The sad part is that he had very little knowledge about TPP, for example, he ignorantly thought that China was part of it. Anyhow, the big question is, can protectionist policies going to be good for the US economy, will it create good paying jobs as Trump promised, only time will tell, but so far one thing is very clear, it’s a big win for China. *Links [1] [2]*




> he got out of the Paris climate thing. (yes, this is a win for a lot of people on the other side, both blue and white collar)


It was a bad decision, the United States now joins Nicaragua and Syria as the only Nations not part of the accord, SAD! China again jumps in to benefit from Trumps isolationist decision. *Link *

And the interesting fact is, by more than 5 to 1 margin, voters say the US should remain in the Paris agreement, including 61% of independents and almost half of Trump’s voters. *Link *




> he got an uber literalist conservative judge into your supreme court. no small thing, for such an appointment will far outlast president Trump's own time in office, and probably his lifetime.


Agree.




> he got the supreme court to go along with his travel ban from enemy nation Iran plus the other failed terror ravaged states.


Now, that’s a spin, Trump’s original plan was to ban all Muslims, that’s what he promised his followers during the campaign, remember? *Link* But once the candidate Trump became President Trump reality hit him on the head and he soon realized that the Constitution does create a system of checks and balances over a President, so he had to abandon his original plan and settle with a seven majority Muslim nations temporary ban, it was rightly struck down by a federal court, and then he came with yet another plan, this time only six-nation would be banned with some revised amendments, once again, the courts smacked down his revised ban. The Trump administration then appealed to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court accepted the ban with conditions: “with respect to foreign nationals who lack any bona fide relationship with the person or entity in the United States”, in other words, any person from the six countries who’s been accepted or sponsored by college, university or any business will be able to travel to the United States, and American citizens can sponsor their husband, wife, children, grandchildren, grandparents, brother in laws, sister in laws, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces and cousins. Well, well, well, that definitely does not look like Trump’s original plan or even his other two revised plans!?




> don't go by the polls, remember how horribly wrong they had it earlier ?


Actually, they were not “horribly wrong”, check it out: *Link*




> You do realize that a lot of those same "white" voters flipped for Trump in a lot of those formerly democrat party bastions, right ? The slim margins mean nothing, he pulled off the impossible.


That was not the main reason Hillary lost the election, but that is a separate debate and if you are interested we can discuss that some other time.

But here’s an interesting poll from the Rust Belt: Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin, the three key states that send Trump to the White House.

Former Pres Obama is perceived favorably by more than six in ten residents in Michigan, 64%, Pennsylvania, 62%, and Wisconsin, 61%.

On the other hand, Trump’s favorable rating are upside down. 59% of Michigan residents, 55% of those in Pennsylvania, and 61% of adults in Wisconsin’s have an unfavorable opinion of Trump. *Link*




> Trump is a populist, and socially he's a liberal.. for example he's way more relaxed on the gay issue than Obama, who had to wait for years before he went all in. Yes, he banned "trans" frrom your military and Mike Pence is his VP but Trump will never go after gay marriage for instance. Those are victories that the libs have won, not open for debate, a win for personal liberty etc.


Trump is neither liberal nor conservative, he is a sham. Liberal on drugs can only have VP Mike Pence or pick Neil Gorsuch for Supreme Court, or think a woman should be punished for having an abortion, so please.




> Muller's got nothing on the president, at most they'll try and force nail Flynn or Manafort or someone like that on petty (or srs) charges.
> 
> That whole story is BS, Trump is an American nationalist, not a russian anything.


I don’t want to go in circles, let’s just wait and see.




> talking shit about saudi arabia and related topics ?


But Trump has become Saudi Arabia’s friend now, didn’t you see him dancing on their tunes.

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## pothead

As long as the left continues to bury their head in the sand and continue to insult and drown the voices of those with opposing views, they are not winning any voters back.

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## RabzonKhan

Trump suffers yet another defeat. An appeal court in Washington, has upheld a lower court’s ruling. 







*9th Circuit narrows scope of Trump travel ban
*
By Ariane de Vogue, CNN Supreme Court Reporter
Updated 9:07 PM ET, Thu September 7, 2017

(CNN)The 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals narrowed the scope of President Donald Trump's travel ban Thursday, ruling that extended family members such as grandparents are exempt from the ban, as well as a certain class of refugees, while the legality of the ban is under review.

The ruling from a three-judge panel changes the status quo, as it allows a group of refugees with contractual commitments from resettlement organizations to come into the country. The ruling will take effect in five days, the appeals court specified.

*The case stems from a Supreme Court order back in June. In that order, the justices allowed the travel ban to go into effect pending appeal -- which will be heard October 10 -- except as it applies to those individuals with a "bona fide" relationship with the United States.*
The travel ban bars people from Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen from entering the US.

Almost as soon as the order was issued, parties from both sides scurried back to court seeking clarification of the exact meaning of a "bona fide" relationship.

*Challengers to the travel ban, including lawyers for the state of Hawaii, argued that the Supreme Court did not mean for the ban to extend to some family members such as grandparents, or to a category of refugees that have a contractual commitment from resettlement organizations.*

Lawyers for the Trump administration, on the other hand, argued that the challengers read the Supreme Court ruling too broadly.

The three judges hearing the case, Michael Hawkins, Ronald Gould and Richard Paez, who were all nominated to the bench by President Bill Clinton, were skeptical of the administration's arguments.

*"The Government does not meaningfully argue how grandparents, grandchildren, brothers-in-law, sisters-in-law, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, and cousins of persons in the United States can be considered to have 'no connection' to or 'lack any bona fide relationship' with persons in the United States," the judges wrote.*

They also said that refugees in this case would be "in vulnerable limbo" in the meantime without action.
"Refugees have only a narrow window of time to complete their travel, as certain security and medical checks expire and must then be reinitiated. Even short delays may prolong a refugee's admittance," the judges wrote.

*"Today's unanimous ruling is another big loss in court for the Trump administration on the travel ban," said Steve Vladeck, CNN Supreme Court analyst and law professor at the University of Texas. *"The Supreme Court's interim June ruling had created ambiguity about who the ban could still apply to pending the court's full consideration of the case, but the Ninth Circuit held that the government was wrong to resolve that ambiguity against grandparents and refugees with prior connections to the United States. *It's only a small change to the status quo legally, but it's a big slap in the face to the government for so badly misreading the Supreme Court's June decision."* *Link*





pothead said:


> As long as the left continues to bury their head in the sand and continue to insult and drown the voices of those with opposing views, they are not winning any voters back.


Would you care to elaborate?

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## RabzonKhan

Trump throws Republicans under the bus, by making a deal with Democrats.

When the Democrats propose a three-month extension to the debt ceiling, Speaker Paul Ryan called the proposal “ridiculous” and “disgraceful”, the Republicans and Trump’s Treasury Secretary wanted an 18 month extension. But Trump, the so-called great negotiator accepted Democrats proposal without hardly negotiating.

The Republicans wanted 18 month, so they did not have to deal with the debt ceiling until after the 2018 midterm elections (34 Senate and all 435 House seats will be on the ballot on November 6, 2018) on the other hand, Democrats strategy was to keep the pressure on the Republicans before 2018 primaries, so they can create a rift between Republican incumbents and primary challengers.

Good job Democrats!







*‘Trump betrays everyone’: The president has a long record as an unpredictable ally*

By Ashley Parker and Philip Rucker September 9

President Trump prepared for the pivotal meeting with congressional leaders by huddling with his senior team — his chief of staff, his legislative director and the heads of Treasury and the Office of Management and Budget — to game out various scenarios on how to fund the government, raise the debt ceiling and provide Hurricane Harvey relief.

But one option they never considered was the one the president ultimately chose: cutting a deal with Democratic lawmakers, to the shock and ire of his own party.

In agreeing to tie Harvey aid to a three-month extension of the debt ceiling and government funding, Trump burned the people who are ostensibly his allies. The president was an unpredictable — and, some would say, untrustworthy — negotiating partner with not only congressional Republicans but also with his Cabinet members and top aides. Trump saw a deal that he thought was good for him — and he seized it.

The move should come as no surprise to students of Trump’s long history of broken alliances and agreements. In business, his personal life, his campaign and now his presidency, Trump has sprung surprises on his allies with gusto. His dealings are frequently defined by freewheeling spontaneity, impulsive decisions and a desire to keep everyone guessing — especially those who assume they can control him.

He also repeatedly demonstrates that, while he demands absolutely loyalty from others, he is ultimately loyal to no one but himself.

“It makes all of their normalizing and ‘Trumpsplaining’ look silly and hollow,” said Rick Wilson, a Republican strategist sharply critical of Trump, referring to his party’s congressional leaders. “Trump betrays everyone: wives, business associates, contractors, bankers and now, the leaders of the House and Senate in his own party. They can’t explain this away as [a] 15-dimensional Trump chess game. It’s a dishonest person behaving according to his long-established pattern.”

But what many Republicans saw as betrayal was, in the view of some Trump advisers, an exciting return to his campaign promise of being a populist dealmaker able to cut through the mores of Washington to get things done. 

In that Wednesday morning Oval Office meeting, Trump was impressed with the energy and vigor of Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D.-Calif.) relative to the more subdued Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.). Far from fretting over the prospect of alienating McConnell and Ryan or members of his administration, he relished the opportunity for a bipartisan agreement and the praise he anticipated it would bring, according to people close to the president. 

On Thursday morning, he called Pelosi and Schumer to crow about coverage of the deal — “The press has been incredible,” he told Pelosi, according to someone familiar with the call — and point out that it had been especially positive for the Democratic leaders. *Read more*

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## RabzonKhan

Beauty with brains, it seems Miss Texas Margana Wood has more commonsense and decency than our President. 

During the question and asked portion of the Miss America pageant , she was asked about Pres Trump’s disgraceful and apologetic response to white supremacist violence in Charlottesville last month.

She said:

“I think that the white supremacist issue, it was very obvious, that it was a terrorist attack. And I think that President Donald Trump should’ve made a statement earlier addressing the fact, and in making sure all Americans feel safe in this country. That is the number one issue right now.”






*


How California could jolt the 2020 presidential race
*
*The nation's largest state is poised to upend the primary election schedule.*

By DAVID SIDERS and GABRIEL DEBENEDETTI 09/10/2017

LOS ANGELES — California is pushing forward with a plan to change the state’s primary date from June to March, a move that could scramble the 2020 presidential nominating contest and swing the early weight of the campaign to the West.

If adopted by the legislature this week — as is widely expected — and signed into law by Gov. Jerry Brown, the early primary would allocate California’s massive haul of delegates just after the nation’s first contests in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina.

The earlier primary could benefit at least two potential presidential contenders from California — U.S. Sen. Kamala Harris and Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti — while jeopardizing the prospects of other candidates who will struggle to raise enough early money to compete in expensive media markets in the nation’s most populous state. *Read more*
http://www.politico.com/staff/gabriel-debenedetti

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## RabzonKhan

*How Donald Trump Lied to Conceal His Moscow Business Partner*

*Perhaps this was his greatest deception of the 2016 campaign.*

DAVID CORNSEP. 12, 2017

Donald Trump has told many lies and falsehoods. He’s lied about the Russia scandal. He’s lied about his ties to organized crime. Perhaps he’s lied so much that freshly excavated prevarications don’t register greatly. *Yet recent news reports revealing that Trump was pursuing a huge development deal in Moscow in late 2015 and early 2016 show that during the campaign Trump committed a tremendous act of deception.*

This mammoth duplicity was encompassed in a small fib. On December 2, 2015, during an interview with an Associated Press reporter, Trump was asked about his relationship with a fellow named Felix Sater. *Trump, who was then the front-runner in the GOP presidential nomination contest, replied, “Felix Sater, boy, I have to even think about it. I’m not that familiar with him.” He referred questions to his Trump Organization. One of his lawyers, Alan Garten, subsequently told the AP that Sater once prospected for real estate deals for the Trump Organization and that the arrangement lasted for six months in 2010.

What neither Trump nor Garten said was that—at that very moment—Trump was in the middle of the deal to build a Trump Tower in the Russian capital and that Sater had put together the venture. As he was running for president, Trump was hiding this project from the American public, and he was insisting he barely knew the man at the center of it. This was serious deceit.*

Trump’s claim that he was unfamiliar with Sater was regarded at the time as absurd by journalists who have followed Trump’s career; it appeared the candidate was attempting to distance himself from a one-time felon. Sater had a substantial criminal record. In the early 1990s, when he was in his mid-20s, Sater went to jail for about a year after he smashed a broken margarita glass into the face of a man during a barroom altercation. After that, he became part of a mid-1990s stock swindle tied to the Mafia and Russian organized crime. To escape going back to jail, he pleaded guilty to racketeering and became a cooperating witness for the FBI.

While an informant for the bureau, Sater hooked up with a real estate development firm in New York City called Bayrock, and in the 2000s he cooked up various projects with Trump. Many fizzled out and ended up in lawsuits. But at least one was built: the Trump SoHo hotel and condominium project. (That deal also prompted a lawsuit in which buyers of units there claimed to have been defrauded by Trump, his adult children, and others. Trump and his co-defendants settled the case, agreeing to refund 90 percent of $3 million in deposits but admitting no wrongdoing.) Throughout this stretch, Sater, who was born in what is now Russia and who boasted connections there, worked with Trump to try to land a tower project in Moscow, which had long been a dream for Trump.

In 2007, the _New York Times _revealed Sater’s past as a criminal and reported that Trump was in business with a man who had been accused of “conspiring with the Mafia to launder money and defraud investors.” Trump told the _Times_ he knew nothing of Sater’s dark past. Though Sater departed Bayrock after the _Times’ _article, Trump’s organization brought him on board three years later, and Sater was wheeling and dealing, seeking projects for Trump and handing out Trump Organization business cards describing him as a “senior advisor to Donald Trump.”

In subsequent years, Trump issued conflicting statements about his relationship with Sater. In a 2011 deposition, Trump acknowledged that he used to speak to Sater “for a period of time.” Yet in a 2013 deposition, Trump said, “If he were sitting in the room right now, I really wouldn’t know what he looked like.” Trump had plenty of reason to distance himself from his felonious onetime business partner. Sater wasn’t simply controversial; he posed a serious risk for Trump. If Trump had been aware of Sater’s felonious and fraudulent past before the _Times_ story came out, such knowledge could taint business deals the Trump Organization made involving Bayrock and possibly create a legal liability.

*So it was no surprise when Trump in late November 2015 acted as if he had never met Sater. But now it’s obvious that his dishonest response to the question about Sater was far more significant.*

Around September 2015, Sater approached Michael Cohen—a lawyer for Trump and an executive vice president at the Trump Organization—with a proposal for the construction of a luxury hotel, office, and residential condominium building in the Russian capital that would be called Trump Tower Moscow. In a recently released statement, Cohen noted that the project called for a Russian company named I.C. Expert Investment Company to develop the building, and Trump would license his name to the venture. Cohen said he “primarily communicated” with the Russian firm through Sater. Cohen recalled, “Sater claimed to have appropriate relationships within the business community in Russia in order to obtain the real estate, financing, government permits, and other items necessary for such a development…Sater acted as a deal broker and would have been compensated by the licensee if the proposal had been successful. I have known Mr. Sater for several decades and I routinely handled communications with him regarding the proposal.”

*This was Sater’s deal. According to a source familiar with this aspect of the Trump-Russia investigation, Trump was fully aware that Sater had brokered the agreement. And around late October 2015, Trump himself signed a letter of intent with I.C. Expert Investment to proceed with the project.*

*The arrangement would have put $4 million in upfront fees in Trump’s pocket. Trump’s company solicited building designs from different architects and engaged in discussions regarding potential financing for the proposal. (I.C. Expert Investment projects were sometimes financed by Russian banks under US economic sanctions. Last month, Sater told the New York Times that he lined up financial support from VTB Bank, an institution partially owned by the Kremlin and now under US sanctions.)*

Sater considered this endeavor related—perhaps crucial—to Trump’s presidential campaign. In October, when he forwarded Cohen the letter of intent for Trump to sign, he wrote, “Lets make this happen and build a Trump Moscow. And possibly fix relations between the countries by showing everyone that commerce & business are much better and more practical than politics. That should be Putins message as well, and we will help him agree on that message. Help world peace and make a lot of money, I would say thats a great lifetime goal for us to go after.” *A few weeks later, Sater emailed Cohen: “I arranged for Ivanka to sit at Putins private chair at his desk and office in the Kremlin. I will get Putin on this program and we will get Donald elected…Our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it. I will get all of Putins team to buy in on this, I will manage this process.” In mid-January, Cohen, at Sater’s suggestion, sent a letter to Vladimir Putin’s office to ask for help in obtaining permission for the construction from the Russian government.*

Ponder all this for a moment. At the time Trump was running for president, he was endeavoring to pull off a major deal in Moscow that required government permission. That is, if Putin didn’t favor this project, it wouldn’t happen. *Trump’s right-hand legal man even asked Putin’s office to help them. And through all this, Trump was making positive statements about Putin. *One example: In mid-December 2015, Trump said on MSNBC’s _Morning Joe_ that Putin was a better leader than Barack Obama, and when Joe Scarborough asserted that Putin “kills journalists that don’t agree with him,” Trump scoffed at him and said, “He’s running his country and at least he’s a leader, unlike what we have in this country…I think our country does plenty of killing also.”

*Trump was defending a repressive leader—but one with whom he was trying to do business in private. Throughout the 2016 election, people wondered why Trump consistently made oddly positive remarks about Putin. Part of the answer is clear: You cannot develop major construction projects in Moscow if you criticize Putin. *

*Back to Sater. As Trump was in the thick of it with this Sater-brokered project, he gave the impression he hardly had any idea who Sater was. It is hard to see Trump’s answer as anything other than a deceptive reply designed to hide the fact that he was attempting to land a Putin-sanctioned deal in Russia (that would earn him several million dollars) at the same time he was pitching himself as the best possible president of the United States. The truthful answer would have been: “Sure, I know Felix Sater, and right now I am working with him to develop a major hotel-residential-retail project in Moscow that can only move forward with the permission of the Russian government.” How would such a reply have played in the campaign?*

The Sater project, like Trump’s previous efforts to develop a Trump Tower in Moscow, eventually fell apart. Cohen says he decided to abandon the idea “for business reasons” in late January 2016. But Sater remained in the Trump orbit. In early 2017, he and Cohen worked on a Russia-friendly peace plan for Ukraine and tried to get the Trump White House to adopt it.

*Trump pulled off a con during the presidential campaign. He insisted he cared only about US interests—while he was privately negotiating a deal in Moscow that could only happen with the assent of Putin’s government. In and of itself, this should be a major scandal. Yet Trump got away with it. And to do so, he had to lie about his relationship with Sater. This was not the first instance in which he had misrepresented his connection to Sater. But it was the most important one. Link*










Daily Beast: Russia used Facebook to organize and promote anti-immigrant rallies in U.S.

By Gabe Ortiz 
Tuesday Sep 12, 2017

”Facebook was the indispensable messenger” for Russia in their hacking of our democracy this past November, media columnist Margaret Sullivan wrote last week,“even more obvious now after Wednesday’s news that Facebook sold ads during the campaign to a Russian ‘troll farm,’ targeting American voters with ‘divisive social and political messages’ that fit right in with Donald Trump’s campaign strategy.”

*But now, the Daily Beast reports there’s also evidence that Russia went beyond spreading fake news and used Facebook’s event management tool to “remotely organize and promote political protests in the U.S.,” including an anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim rally in Idaho in August 2016. This is “the first indication that the Kremlin’s attempts to shape America’s political discourse moved beyond fake news and led unwitting Americans into specific real-life action”:*

Much of the Russian Facebook propaganda campaign has since been deleted. But bits and pieces remain visible in search engine caches, including a 2016 notice on Facebook Events—the site’s event management and invitation tool—announcing an August 27 rally in a rural Idaho town known to welcome refugees.

“Due to the town of Twin Falls, Idaho, becoming a center of refugee resettlement, which led to the huge upsurge of violence towards American citizens, it is crucial to draw society's attention to this problem,” the event notice began. The three hour protest was titled “Citizens before refugees”, and would be held at the City Council Chambers beginning at 11:00 am. The notice provided the street address and ended with a fiery exhortation.

*“We must stop taking in Muslim refugees! We demand open and thorough investigation of all the cases regarding Muslim refugees! All government officials, who are covering up for these criminals, should be fired!”*

The event was “hosted” by “SecuredBorders,” a putative U.S. anti-immigration community that was outed in March as a Russian front.

Event turnout bombed just like it did at Trump’s inauguration, but as _Fortune_ notes,“the action taken by Secured Borders clearly amounts to an incitement to real-world political action by American citizens during the election campaign.” One former FBI agent told the Daily Beast that “this is the next step. The objective of influence is to create behavior change. The simplest behavior is to have someone disseminate propaganda that Russia created and seeded. The second part of behavior influence is when you can get people to physically do something.” *Link*

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> But Trump has become Saudi Arabia’s friend now, didn’t you see him dancing on their tunes.



I must admit, that was fun to watch.  Saudis rolled out the red carpet. It must've been a cultural shock for the likes of Melania, Ivanca and the rest getting exposed to such Arabic culture. And credit the Saudis for making it a very traditional reception and not making any attempt to westernize the gathering. Even down the the way they served tea and pastry, pure Saudi/Arab style.

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## RabzonKhan

Excellent job, recently Congress unanimously passed a resolution that condemns White Nationalists, White Supremacist, KKK, neo-Nazis and other hate groups for domestic terrorist attack on August 11/12 in Charlottesville, Virginia. Since the bill was passed unanimously, Trump had no choice but to sign the bill, in a way, Trump was forced to sign the bill without putting his apologetic spins for the racist scums.

What an irony, Congress had to force the President to categorically condemn the racist scums. 






S.J.Res.49 - A joint resolution condemning the violence and domestic terrorist attack that took place during events between August 11 and August 12, 2017, in Charlottesville, Virginia, recognizing the first responders who lost their lives while monitoring the events, offering deepest condolences to the families and friends of those individuals who were killed and deepest sympathies and support to those individuals who were injured by the violence, expressing support for the Charlottesville community, rejecting White nationalists, White supremacists, the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis, and other hate groups, and urging the President and the President's Cabinet to use all available resources to address the threats posed by those groups.115th Congress (2017-2018) *Read more*



Gomig-21 said:


> I must admit, that was fun to watch.  Saudis rolled out the red carpet. It must've been a cultural shock for the likes of Melania, Ivanca and the rest getting exposed to such Arabic culture. And credit the Saudis for making it a very traditional reception and not making any attempt to westernize the gathering. Even down the the way they served tea and pastry, pure Saudi/Arab style.


I agree, but here’s a funny thing, during the campaign, Trump and his supporters on this thread used to repeatedly criticize Hillary for accepting money from Saudi Arabia, “the largest sponsors of terrorist” for her charity. After becoming president, Trump picked, not Canada, Britain, Germany, but Saudi Arabia as his first foreign destination, and accepted 83 gifts from the kingdom.

Trump also criticize Pres Obama for Bowing front of the Saudi king, but then, of course, he did the same, watch the video and have fun.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/230033235407671297
President Trump Bows as he accepts Gold Medal in Saudi Arabia





And here an exchange between me and Trump supporters:



Desert Fox said:


> Whatta bunch of ballonie. We all know who Omar Mateen's father was rooting for, and lets not forget that Hillary received more than $100,000,000 in donations from Saudi Arabia and other Arab states, the largest sponsors of terrorist organizations like ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Al-Nusra.





RabzonKhan said:


> Look, we like it or not, but all the countries that you mentioned are considered United States allies in the Middle East, and there is a very good possibility that they will be our friends under president Trump.
> 
> Now I should be the last person to defend Saudi Arabia, but the fact is, Saudi government does not "sponsor" or fund ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Al-Nusra, but yes, Saudi citizens do.
> 
> @T-72, you think Trump is anti-Saudi Arabia, actually, he's more anti-Iranian

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump also criticize Pres Obama for Bowing front of the Saudi king, but then, of course, he did the same, watch the video and have fun.



One of the many, many hypocritical and shameless gum flaps from this guy, lol. And truly shameless! He couldn't care less if you called him out on any of them. As a matter of fact, he'll defend them with another outrageous, hypocritical lie right to all our faces. 

Which brings us to the wire-tapping; apparently he wasn't completely off with that one, in light of what's come out today with the FBI surveillance that was revealed about Paul Manafort. Although it's not exactly wire-tapping Trump himself, it's pretty close. More importantly, it's another bombshell with regards to this mafiosi crew just as we've become immune to all this stuff now. We need a block-busting, slamajamamama to be even mildly moved nowadays. Maybe something like financial records making their way to the Washington Post that show he owed Russia $2.1 billion and sent them an email promising them America in return payment or something along those lines. That might do it.

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## F-22Raptor

Gomig-21 said:


> One of the many, many hypocritical and shameless gum flaps from this guy, lol. And truly shameless! He couldn't care less if you called him out on any of them. As a matter of fact, he'll defend them with another outrageous, hypocritical lie right to all our faces.
> 
> Which brings us to the wire-tapping; apparently he wasn't completely off with that one, in light of what's come out today with the FBI surveillance that was revealed about Paul Manafort. Although it's not exactly wire-tapping Trump himself, it's pretty close. More importantly, it's another bombshell with regards to this mafiosi crew just as we've become immune to all this stuff now. We need a block-busting, slamajamamama to be even mildly moved nowadays. Maybe something like financial records making their way to the Washington Post that show he owed Russia $2.1 billion and sent them an email promising them America in return payment or something along those lines. That might do it.



I think that the information Mueller obtained through a search warrant of Facebook is also huge. It means he convinced a federal judge that a crime had taken place by the use of Facebook.

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## F-22Raptor

Manafort offered to give Russian billionaire ‘private briefings’ on 2016 campaign


Less than two weeks before Donald Trump accepted the Republican presidential nomination, his campaign chairman offered to provide briefings on the race to a Russian billionaire closely aligned with the Kremlin, according to people familiar with the discussions.

Paul Manafort made the offer in an email to an overseas intermediary, asking that a message be sent to Oleg Deripaska, an aluminum magnate with whom Manafort had done business in the past, these people said.

“If he needs private briefings we can accommodate,” Manafort wrote in the July 7, 2016, email, portions of which were read to The Washington Post along with other Manafort correspondence from that time.

The emails are among tens of thousands of documents that have been turned over to congressional investigators and special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s team as they probe whether Trump associates coordinated with Russia as part of Moscow’s efforts to interfere in the 2016 U.S. election.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...d975285475e_story.html?utm_term=.d1d2c582901c

The noose is tightening around Manafort's neck.

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## Gomig-21

F-22Raptor said:


> Manafort offered to give Russian billionaire ‘private briefings’ on 2016 campaignPaul Manafort made the offer in an email to an overseas intermediary, asking that a message be sent to Oleg Deripaska, an aluminum magnate with whom Manafort had done business in the past, these people said.
> 
> The noose is tightening around Manafort's neck.



lol, you know, what is wrong with these peoples' level of intelligence using emails to send these messages back and forth? That's worst than using your cell phone! Aside from the inappropriate actions, the level of stupidity is dumbfounding.

I thought John Kelly's reaction at Trump's UN speech was priceless! This was probably when Trump called Kim Jong Un "Rocket Man." He probably went off-script on that one, drawing Kelly's reaction.

The poor guy's thinking "WTH is it gonna take to control this guy's gum flap! Jesus, he can't help himself!" 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/910191941442310144

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## Gomig-21

You know, despite Colin Kaepernick choosing not the stand and instead kneeling during the national anthem in protest and solidarity to BLM, and the controversy it's unleashed in the NFL and social media along with the backlash it's caused him has turned out to be an unwanted baggage causing hesitation for other teams to consider signing him.






It's still his right and no matter how "un-American" or disrespectful it might be, taking it on is a slippery slope especially for the president of the United States. 

Being pretty good friends with many NFL owners might even complicate this whole battle Trump has started in an obvious attempt to cling on to his base. Is this another lame attempt at that or is this also an entitlement to the President who should also be able to express his opinion on the matter? As much as Kaepernick should be able to protest in this manner, I guess Trump can flap his gums just as much. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/911654184918880260

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/911655987857281024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/911718138747727872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/911904261553950720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/911911385176723457
Problem is, it's now empowered Kaepernick and might not be something the powerful and influential NFL owners -- whom for the most part are good friends of Trump -- necessarily would've wanted to see coming from the POTUS lol.

*N.F.L. Owners Support Kneeling Players in Protest of Trump Comments*

*https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/24/sports/nfl-trump-anthem-protests.html?mcubz=0*

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## RabzonKhan

Trump and the Republicans failed again. 








*Senate won’t vote on last-ditch Obamacare repeal bill*

*Republicans made the decision after it was clear their latest plan would fail.*


By SEUNG MIN KIM, JENNIFER HABERKORN and BURGESS EVERETT
09/26/2017 10:20 AM EDT

The Senate will not vote on Republicans' latest bill to repeal Obamacare this week, putting an end, for now, to the GOP's seven-year campaign promise to dismantle the health care law.

The decision was reached at a party lunch Tuesday after it became clear the plan would fail, GOP senators said. Three Senate Republicans had already said they would vote against the measure, and the GOP could only afford two defections. *Link*





Gomig-21 said:


> One of the many, many hypocritical and shameless gum flaps from this guy, lol. And truly shameless! He couldn't care less if you called him out on any of them. As a matter of fact, he'll defend them with another outrageous, hypocritical lie right to all our faces.


I totally agree, but we should not give up or ignore his outrageous lies and bogus claims, because the moment we start ignoring his abnormal behavior, is the moment his abnormal behavior starts to become normal. And that’s exactly what he and his supporters want, remember, alternate facts. 








> Which brings us to the wire-tapping; apparently he wasn't completely off with that one, in light of what's come out today with the FBI surveillance that was revealed about Paul Manafort. Although it's not exactly wire-tapping Trump himself, it's pretty close.


I respect your views, but I have a little different take on it, let’s not forget, he’s the President of United State (the sole superpower) and the leader of the Western world, let’s not give him a pass so easily, we must judge him from the high standard we come to expect from our Presidents.

Let’s look at what Trump was alleging in his four tweets:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/837989835818287106

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/837993273679560704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/837994257566863360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/837996746236182529
Trump’s allegation that Obama had ordered wiretap on him, note, he uses the term “my phones”. We both agree was a lie. Pres Obama had no power to order wiretap on an American citizen, to get a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA) warrant, Intelligence official would need to convince federal judges that Manafort was working as an agent of a foreign power and only the Court can order wiretap.

He also mentions “Nixon/Watergate”, this is a clear reference to Richard Nixon’s attempt to bug the Democratic party headquarters. Again, I’m sure you’ll agree with me that is complete fabrication.

He also claimed without any evidence that “Nothing found”. Meanwhile, there are reports that Manafort can soon be indicted, so maybe they did find something.

Now, his allegation that “my wires tapped in Trump Tower”, is not true either, though we still do not know for sure if Trump Tower was targeted, but there are reports, Manafort did have an apartment at Trump Tower. So maybe, Manafort’s, not Trumps, phone was tapped in Trump Tower. Trump’s claim is still far-fetched.

Now, the important points are that to this day, Pres Trump has offered no evidence to support his far-fetched allegation. On the other hand, earlier this month Justice Department said in a court filing that it had zero evidence to support Trump’s claims. The motion came in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by a group for government transparency, American Oversight. *Link*




> More importantly, it's another bombshell with regards to this mafiosi crew just as we've become immune to all this stuff now. We need a block-busting, slamajamamama to be even mildly moved nowadays. Maybe something like financial records making their way to the Washington Post that show he owed Russia $2.1 billion and sent them an email promising them America in return payment or something along those lines. That might do it.


I agree with you, it’s very hard to follow all the news that keeps on pouring. I don’t believe in witch hunt, as an American citizen, all I want is the truth.

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## RabzonKhan

*9 ways Trump’s tax plan is a gift to the rich, including himself*

By Heather Long September 28

President Trump and congressional Republicans keep saying their tax plan doesn't help the rich. But that's not true.

The nine-page outline released Wednesday is full of goodies that will make millionaires and billionaires happy. Republicans say it's a starting point, but it would have to be turned on its head to be anything other than a windfall for the wealthy. In fact, in nine pages, The Washington Post counts at least nine ways the wealthy benefit, including Trump himself. Here's our list:

*1) A straight-up tax cut for the rich. *The top tax rate in the United States is 39.6 percent. Trump and GOP leaders propose lowering that to 35 percent. It's also worth noting the 39.6 percent tax rate applies only to income above $418,400 for singles and $470,700 for married couples. The outline doesn't specify what income level the new 35 percent rate would kick in at. It's possible the rich will get an every bigger tax cut if the final plan raises that threshold.

*2) The estate tax goes bye-bye. *Trump likes to call the estate tax the “death tax.” At the moment, Americans who pass money, homes or other assets on to heirs when they die pay a 40 percent tax. But here's the important part Trump leaves out: The only people who have to pay this tax are those passing on more than $5.49 million. (And a married couple can inherit nearly $11 million without paying the tax.)

Trump frequently claims the estate tax hurts farmers and small-business owners. But as The Post's Fact Checker team points out, only 5,500 estates will pay any estate tax at all in 2017 (out of about 3 million estates). And of those 5,500 hit with the tax, only 80 (yes, you read that right) are farms or small businesses.

*3) Hedge funds and lawyers get a special tax break.* The plan calls for the tax rate on “pass-through entities” to fall from 39.6 percent to 25 percent. Republicans claim this is a tax break for small-business owners because “pass-through entities” is an umbrella term that covers the ways most people set up businesses: sole proprietorships, partnerships and S corporations. But the reality is, most small-business owners (more than 85 percent) already pay a tax rate of 25 percent or less, according to the Brookings Institution.

Only 3 percent pay a rate greater than 30 percent. That 3 percent includes doctors, lawyers, hedge fund managers and other really well-off people. Instead of paying a 35 percent income tax, these rich business owners would be able to pass off their income as business income and pay only a 25 percent tax rate. (The tax outline released Wednesday “contemplates” that Congress “will adopt measures to prevent” this kind of tax dodging. But there's no guarantee that will happen).

*4) The AMT is over.* Republicans want to kill the alternative minimum tax, a measure put in place in 1969 to ensure the wealthy aren't using a bunch of loopholes and credits to lower their tax bills to paltry sums. The AMT starts to phase in for people with earnings of about $130,000, but the vast majority of people subject to the AMT earn over $500,000, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

Trump himself would benefit from repealing the AMT. As The Post's Fact Checker team notes, Trump's leaked tax return from 2005 shows that the AMT increased his tax bill from about $5.3 million to $36.5 million. In 2005 alone, he potentially could have saved $31 million.

*5) The wealthy get to keep deducting mortgage interest. *Only about 1 in 4 taxpayers claims the mortgage interest deduction, the Brookings Institution says. “Upper-income households primarily benefit from the subsidy,” wrote Brookings scholar Bruce Katz in a report last year. In fact, the wealthy can deduct interest payments on mortgages worth up to $1 million. There have been many calls over the years to lower that threshold, but the Trump tax plan is keeping it in place.

The GOP is doing this even though the tax cuts would add to the United States' debt, since it doesn't raise enough revenue to offset all the money lost from the new tax breaks. The outline also calls for the charitable deduction to stay, another deduction used heavily by the top 1 percent.

*6) Stockholders are going to be very happy. *Trump is calling for a super-low tax rate on the money big businesses such as Apple and Microsoft bring back to the United States from overseas, a process known as “repatriation.” Trump argues companies will use all this money coming home to build new U.S. factories. But the last time the United States did this, in the early 2000s, it ended up being a big win for people who own stocks. Companies simply took most of the money and gave it to shareholders in the form of dividends and share buybacks.

Guess what? Just about everyone (outside the White House) predicts the same thing will happen again. Corporations are even admitting it.

*7) The favorite tax break of hedge fund billionaires is still safe. *There's no mention in the tax-overhaul rubric of “carried interest.” Those two words make most people's eyes glaze over, but they are a well-known tax-dodging trick for millionaires and billionaires on Wall Street. Hedge fund and private-equity managers earn most of their money from their investments doing well. But instead of paying income taxes on all that money at a rate of 39.6 percent, the managers are able to claim it as “carried interest” so they can pay tax at the low capital gains rate of 20 percent.

Trump called this totally unfair on the campaign trail. During the primaries, he said he would eliminate this loophole because hedge fund managers were “getting away with murder.” But that change didn't end up in the GOP plan.

*8) Capital gains taxes stay low. *The nine-page document also says nothing about capital gains, the tax rate people pay when they finally sell a stock or asset after holding on to it for many years. At the moment, the wealthiest Americans pay a 20 percent capital gains rate. Trump and Republican leaders aren't proposing any changes to that, even though it is a popular way for millionaires to lower their tax bill.

*9) The Obamacare investment tax goes away. *The Affordable Care Act put in place a 3.8 percent surcharge on investment income (known formally as the Net Investment Income Tax). It applies only to individuals earning more than $200,000 a year and married couples earning more than $250,000. There's no mention of this tax in the outline released this week, but Republicans clearly want to get rid of it. Repealing it was part of the GOP health-care bills that failed to pass Congress in recent weeks. One way or another, Republicans are likely to roll back this tax. *Read more*

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## RabzonKhan

Now, one must wonder, what’s wrong with the Republicans, they elected Roy Moore in an Alabama GOP Senate primary election, and guess what, even Trump thought the man was nuts, Trump was supporting his opponent Luther Strange.

Roy Moore is a dangerous extremist unfit to be a Senator, no surprise, he was supported by Steve Bannon, Sarah Palin and right-wing British scumbag Nigel Farage.

Poor Trump was so embarrassed after Luther Strange lost the election that he deleted all the tweets endorsing him and was quick to congratulate Roy Moore.












Roy Moore with a tiny gun. lol

Here is a small sample of Roy Moore beliefs:

*God's wrath is felt on Earth*

Moore has suggested that the 11 September 2001 attacks against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were a sign of God's divine anger. (America’s enemies think the same way) "Sounds a little bit like the Pentagon" he remarked after reading a Bible passage about "the great slaughter when the towers will fall".

*Obama might not be US-born*

Trump's predecessor was disqualified to be president, Moore claimed as far back as 2008. The so-called "birther" theory, alleging that Obama was born in Kenya, was heavily promoted by Donald Trump until very late in his campaign.


*'Red and yellows' don't get along*

He appeared to use pejorative racial terms for Asians and Native Americans *at a rally this month*."We have blacks and whites fighting, reds and yellows fighting, Democrats and Republicans fighting, men and women fighting. What's going to unite us? What's going to bring us back together? A president? A Congress? No. It's going to be God."


*Islam is a 'false religion'*

It is also a threat to US laws, Moore claims. Over the summer *he falsely alleged*that Sharia law was already being enforced in parts of the states of Illinois and Indiana, offering no evidence.


*Homosexuality should be illegal*

He has *likened it to bestiality*, and called it "abhorrent, immoral, detestable, a crime against nature, and a violation of the laws of nature and of nature's God upon which this nation and our laws are predicated".


*A Ten Commandments sculpture is worth fighting for*

He was dismissed from the Alabama Supreme Court after he refused a federal order to remove a massive stone statue of the Ten Commandments from inside his courthouse.


*The law comes from God*

"God is the only source of our law, liberty and government," he *said from the debate stage* last week. *Link*

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## ptldM3

More allegations of Russian hacking has been proven false yet again. Just one of dozens of fake claims debunked about Russia/Trump.

https://theintercept.com/2017/09/28...ry-falls-apart-is-skepticism-permissible-yet/


It's comical how none of the liberal hacks on here bother to post this news or retract their prior statements. Liberals are known to be stubborn liars after all.


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## RabzonKhan

Trump has been criticized for his weak response to the hurricane in Puerto Rico, well, Trump has an excuse, according to him:

“*This is an island surrounded by water. Big water. Ocean water.*” 

So there you have it folks, it’s not that majority of them are nonwhites, or vote for the Democrats, it’s the water, big water, ocean water, that’s preventing him from helping them. 










ptldM3 said:


> More allegations of Russian hacking has been proven false yet again. Just one of dozens of fake claims debunked about Russia/Trump.
> 
> https://theintercept.com/2017/09/28...ry-falls-apart-is-skepticism-permissible-yet/
> 
> 
> It's comical how none of the liberal hacks on here bother to post this news or retract their prior statements. Liberals are known to be stubborn liars after all.


First, you need to take a chill pill, there is no need to make sweeping statements.

It is still a developing story, Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is still standing by their story, so at present we really don’t know what the heck is going on.

Now, you’re quick to criticize the liberal media for reporting the story, but maybe you didn’t notice, that the source of the story was Department of Homeland Security (DHS), and the Secretary of the Department, Elaine Duke is a Trump nominee, in other words, DHS is under the Trump Administration. So, if you are so impatient, and want to criticize someone, then criticize the Trump Administration not the media.

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump has been criticized for his weak response to the hurricane in Puerto Rico, well, Trump has an excuse, according to him:
> 
> “*This is an island surrounded by water. Big water. Ocean water.*”
> 
> So there you have it folks, it’s not that majority of them are nonwhites, or vote for the Democrats, it’s the water, big water, ocean water, that’s preventing him from helping them.



No fan of Trump, of course, and the man does not get any benefit of the doubt because of his behavior and outlandish remarks, but it's unfair to pin the slow response to the hurricane in Puerto Rico on him alone. I think Democrats are playing politics, including the mayor of San Juan and the governor of Puerto Rico. If it weren't for their profligate spending ways and the massive debt loads, maybe they would've had the resources to better deal with the natural calamity that befell them.


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## Gomig-21

cloud4000 said:


> but it's unfair to pin the slow response to the hurricane in Puerto Rico on him alone.



Maybe, but unlike Texas and Florida, he never said a single word about it for almost a week. I think that was another hint at his tendency to be racially insensitive, giving the media more legroom to go after him. Then he calls them fake lol. Instead, he was preoccupied with deflecting yet another shameful and failed attempt at repealing & replacing Obama Care by tweeting his displeasure at the NFL players for kneeling during the national anthem. He tweeted and made such a big stink about that before saying anything about Puerto Rico. Priorities a bit skewed? He might think he's a genius for manipulating people's attention from the real and pertinent issues (and in particular the colossal failures of this administration to pass any meaningful legislation so far) and instead, he ends up again looking like the racially insensitive person that he is, much like he did with DACA.

It's really sickening that the president of the United States of America goes on TV in front of his dwindling followers and calls an African American -- for the most part -- exercising his right to protest "a son of a b****." I find that so shameful and so unbecoming of the most powerful man in the world but more importantly, the leader of the free world. It's an embarrassment. 

Funny, a friend of mine who's one of the 40 million or so subscribed to his Twitter account wanted to reply to him and curse him out. I told him he better not. He asked why and I said "before you finish that tweet, the secret service will probably have your front door knocked down and you in cuffs, you better be careful with this freak!"

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## RabzonKhan

Who can disagree with Sen Bob Corker. 







*Corker calls White House ‘an adult day care center’ in response to Trump’s latest Twitter tirade*

By Philip Rucker and Karoun Demirjian October 8 2017

Sen. Bob Corker, the Republican chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, on Sunday called the White House “an adult day care center” after President Trump attacked him in a morning Twitter tirade.

Setting off an extraordinary squabble between two leaders of the same party, Trump alleged in a trio of tweets that Corker “begged” him for his endorsement, did not receive it and decided to retire because he “didn't have the guts” to run for reelection next year.

In response, Corker (Tenn.) tweeted, “It's a shame the White House has become an adult day care center. Someone obviously missed their shift this morning.”


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/917045348820049920
By alienating Corker, Trump risks further endangering his legislative agenda. As chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, Corker would be a leading voice on Capitol Hill determining the future of the Iran nuclear deal, should Trump “decertify” the agreement and punt to Congress a decision about whether to restore sanctions against Iran.

Corker also sits on the Senate Budget Committee and looks to play a key role in the upcoming debate over taxes. The senator already has expressed some concerns with the Trump administration's proposal on tax cuts. 

In an apparent response to Corker's "adult day care center" charge, Trump tweeted on Sunday afternoon that Corker was an ineffective senator and could not "get the job done."

"Bob Corker gave us the Iran Deal, & that's about it," Trump wrote. "We need HealthCare, we need Tax Cuts/Reform, we need people that can get the job done!"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/917130468025348096
Trump's public lashing of Corker comes after the senator made headlines last week when he starkly suggested that the national security team provides the president with badly needed adult supervision. In a remarkable statement, Corker told reporters that Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly “are those people that help separate our country from chaos.”

Trump, who has little tolerance for public criticism and prides himself on counterpunching those who cross him, fired off a trio of tweets Sunday morning attacking Corker, who announced last month that he plans to retire and not seek reelection in 2018.

Trump tweeted, “Senator Bob Corker 'begged' me to endorse him for re-election in Tennessee. I said 'NO' and he dropped out (said he could not win without... ..my endorsement). He also wanted to be Secretary of State, I said 'NO THANKS.' He is also largely responsible for the horrendous Iran Deal! Hence, I would fully expect Corker to be a negative voice and stand in the way of our great agenda. Didn't have the guts to run!”

*Todd Womack, Corker's chief of staff, disputed Trump's claims, saying that the president repeatedly has offered to support Corker, and as recently as last week asked the senator to change his mind and run for reelection.*

*“The president called Senator Corker on Monday afternoon and asked him to reconsider his decision not to seek reelection and reaffirmed that he would have endorsed him, as he has said many times,” Womack said in a statement*. *Read more*




cloud4000 said:


> No fan of Trump, of course, and the man does not get any benefit of the doubt because of his behavior and outlandish remarks, but it's unfair to pin the slow response to the hurricane in Puerto Rico on him alone. I think Democrats are playing politics, including the mayor of San Juan and the governor of Puerto Rico. If it weren't for their profligate spending ways and the massive debt loads, maybe they would've had the resources to better deal with the natural calamity that befell them.


I agree with you, no one should politicize tragedy, but come on my friend, the Pres versus San Juan’s mayor? Trump’s response was totally despicable, and it just shows lack of leadership for attacking the victims of a severe hurricane.

As noted by @Gomig-21 Trump did not even talk publicly about Puerto Rico for days as he chose instead to quarrel with the NFL players, and when he finally did, it was mostly to criticize and insult them through his tweets. Under these tiring circumstances he should not be talking about how the islands politician messed up the economy prior to the storm, as the Pres, his entire focus should be on saving people’s life.

And his double standards were clearly on display. After Hurricane Harvey struck Texas on August 25, Trump visited the state on August 29. When Florida was hit by Hurricane Irma on September 10, Trump paid a visit to the state on September 14. But it took Trump more than 13 days after much criticism to visit Puerto Rico.


*AP-NORC Poll: Low marks for Trump’s Puerto Rico response
*
New polling from the Associated Press and its pollsters at NORC indicates that more Americans have embraced the latter assumption. Only 32 percent think Trump has handled the Puerto Rico crisis well, while 48 percent approve of his handling of the responses to Harvey and Irma. A plurality approve of his handling of the Texas and Florida storms; nearly half disapprove of his handling of Maria. *Read more*

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## RabzonKhan

*Democrats are winning some impressive statehouse elections. What does that mean for 2018?*

By Amber Phillips October 8 2017

Let's put this into perspective first. Democrats are in the minority at nearly every single level of government, and nowhere is that more obvious than in the nation's statehouses. Republicans effectively control 68 of 99 state legislative chambers. At the congressional level, House Democrats would need to net 24 seats in November 2018 to take back control of the House of Representatives.













*But despite all this, statehouse Democrats have a lot to celebrate. Democrats have flipped eight statehouse seats across the nation since President Trump got elected, 7 in districts Trump won last fall*, according to data broken down by left-leaning political blog Daily Kos. _*(Annette Taddeo recently won a state senate seat in Florida that Trump did not win.)_

To better understand what's going on — and whether this translates to any broader Democratic Party momentum for the 2018 midterm elections — The Fix pinged Carolyn Fiddler, a former Democratic statehouse operative and current political editor for Daily Kos. We spoke by email this week and our conversation is lightly edited for length.

*The Fix: What makes these eight wins so significant for Democrats?*

*Fiddler:* Those eight Democratic pickups are a significant percentage of the 27 total state and congressional special elections held in Republican seats this cycle — almost 30 percent, actually. If Democrats were to flip 30 percent of Republican-held congressional seats in 2018, the House GOP caucus would lose 72 of its members. Republicans haven't picked up a single seat in a contested Democrat-vs.-Republican special election this year.

*Yet even in the seats Democrats aren't picking up, there's good news for team blue. Analysis of these special elections reveals that Democrats are consistently outperforming the presidential elections results from both 2016 and 2012. Democrats have beaten Hillary Clinton’s numbers in 30 of the 39 contested special elections this cycle, and they improved on Obama’s 2012 numbers in 27 of them.* Compared to Clinton’s numbers, Democrats are performing an average of 12 percent better, and they’re even performing 9 percent better than Obama did in these same seats.

*The Fix: What’s been the most impressive win so far?*

*Fiddler:* That distinction probably goes to the most recent Oklahoma flip (there have been three there this cycle!). Oklahoma is a reliably red state, and this house district also had been reliably GOP, consistently sending a Republican to the statehouse since 1995. Democrat Jacob Rosecrants actually lost this seat last fall, 60 to 40 percent. On Sept. 13, he literally flipped the script: Rosecrants won this special election 60 to 40 percent.

*The Fix: Your best guess of what’s going on here?*

*Fiddler:* I think a few things are in play. First, Democratic voters are energized and Republican voters seem to be unenthused. Also, recruitment for these seats — like in Virginia's races this fall and even at the congressional level for 2018 — is going incredibly well for Democrats, producing strong candidates who are well-positioned to take advantage of voter enthusiasm. Grass-roots energy is manifesting in dollars and volunteers for these races. The Daily Kos community alone has raised over $245,000 for state legislative candidates already this year. And groups like the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee are making key investments in many of these races, from field to digital to direct contributions.






*The Fix: Could it be that Hillary Clinton was just a lackluster candidate, and these Democrats are performing as expected? Flipside of that question: How much can we pin Democrats’ performance on Trump’s unpopularity?*

*Fiddler: *That first argument is definitely not supported by the numbers. Democrats aren't just doing better than Clinton — they're doing better than Obama, too. They've beaten Obama's margin in 27 races so far, nearly as many as they have Clinton's (30). They're also outperforming Obama by an average of 9 percent and Clinton by 12 percent. And considering that Obama's nationwide margin in 2012 was about 2 points better than Clinton's, those outperformances are nearly identical.

Conversely, Trump's unpopularity can't account for some of the enormous swings against the GOP in so many of these special elections. Trump's net job approval is about minus 15 or so, which is around a dozen points below his “winning” national margin of minus 2 percent last year. That drop can't account for some of the enormous swings we've seen of 20 or 30 points or more in many of these races in dark-red territory.

*The Fix: Some of these statehouse races have a few thousand votes cast, and at the congressional level this year, Democrats haven’t won a special election of note. Do Democrats have a problem of scale?*

*Fiddler: *Trump got to handpick the congressional playing field by choosing Cabinet members whose seats were safely red — or were thought to be. Despite that, the Democrat over-performed Trump's numbers by double digits in three of four races, [in Kansas, Montana and South Carolina].

Republicans shouldn't have struggled to hold on to any of these seats, yet they eked out each of these wins by the relative skin of their teeth.

These flaccid Republican congressional performances are an extension of the success Democrats are having at the statehouse level, and the GOP can't afford near-misses in dark-red seats if they want to hold onto the U.S. House in 2018, when they'll be defending a whole lot of much bluer turf. *Source
*

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Democrats are winning some impressive statehouse elections. What does that mean for 2018?



Really fascinating statistics. It seems like it works both ways, in some respect, or even as a general rule of thumb. If the Democrats win the presidency and have a majority, in time they lose strength in numbers and eventually give way to the Republicans. The Republicans take over until they're slowly ousted which seems to be happening now. It just looks like a repetitive an inevitably natural cycle.



RabzonKhan said:


> Who can disagree with Sen Bob Corker.


 
Apparently he's not the only one who feels that way, just the only one who's speaking out (so far) because he's on this way to retirement so he's obviously not worried about the implications of what he says, and according to many credible people, the sentiment is shared by several others within the Republican party. That just doesn't bode well for the president who seems to add to his list of enemies on a daily basis.

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## RabzonKhan

*U.S. Economy Losing Billions As 'Trump Slump' Continues In Tourism Sector*

Alexandra Talty 10/12/2017

Disney Land. The Grand Canyon. The Golden Gate Bridge. Yosemite. The World Trade Center.

The United States has long been a bucket-list destination, but as executive announcement piles on executive announcement, international visitors are wary of choosing the tourism-behemoth for their next vacation.




Forbes
Inbound arrivals have fallen 1.4% since January, while global arrivals have jumped 4.6%, leading many travel industry experts to say the 'Trump Slump' is real. Credit: Nick DeSantis, Forbes.

After the announcement of the first two travel bans in January and March, 
the number of international travelers arriving in the U.S. has dramatically dropped, according to ForwardKeys, a European travel-prediction firm.

Looking at the number of U.S. inbound arrivals – or the number of international tourists arriving at airports around the country – the firm found that the number of visitors dropped 1.3 percent following the announcement of the first travel ban on January 27. On June 26, when the second ban was partially re-instated, inbound visitors dropped again by 2.4 percent.

Experts expected to see falling arrivals following the first executive announcement in January, when European interest in visiting the U.S. fell 12 percent  but to see the number of arrivals impacted so quickly is startling.

“The confusing and convoluted travel bans have done nothing but worsen the country's reputation around the world,” said Lee Abbamonte, an American travel expert who has been to every country in the world, in an email. Although he believes there should be a vetting process, he says that as it stands now, it is too stringent, and confusing for many international citizens.

A small percentage drop in arrivals is no small potatoes when translated into a dollar amount. In 2016, the U.S. travel and tourism industry generated over $1.5 trillion in economic output, supporting 7.6 million jobs, according to SelectUSA, an international trade analyst firm. That represents 2.7 percent of overall GDP.

“I'm not surprised inbound travel is dropping,” agrees Liz Carlson, a travel expert blogger who was recently named New Zealand’s top blogger, in an email. An American, Carlson lives in Wanaka, New Zealand. Most of her friends are foreigners, and Carlson says that each of the executive announcements, as well as laptop bans, have put many off from traveling to the land of the free and the brave.

She says, “Whenever I meet people traveling, everyone says something about it, and nothing is positive ... My friends who have traveled there recently are worried about the rules where TSA can look through your phones or laptops.”

In March, after the second travel ban, Oxford Economics, an advisory and analysis firm, found that travel could drop by 8 percent due to the executive announcements and procedures to restrict immigration to the U.S.

For now, inbound U.S. arrivals have dropped a total of 1.4 percent since January 1, while global inbound arrivals grew by 4.6 percent, according to ForwardKeys.

“Our latest detailed findings confirm what our data has been predicting since the first travel ban. There has been a 'Trump Slump,' and the strong dollar has compounded it,” said ForwardKeys co-founder and CEO, Olivier Jager, in an email. “This must be worrying for the US economy – travel is a huge earner for the United States, and relative to the rest of the world, its tourism exports are losing ground.”

Tourism is the seventh largest employer in the US economy. In 2012, nearly 84 percent of travel companies identified themselves as small businesses. For those Americans, the outlook is bleak.

*Over the first three months of Donald Trump's presidency, 697,791 fewer foreigners visited the U.S. than normal, down 4.2 percent to 15.8 million people, according to new figures released by the U.S. Department of Commerce. That drop accounted for $2.7 billion in spending, according to Tourism Economics.*

In cities like New York, foreign tourists spend four times as much as domestic tourists, so even slight drops in inbound arrivals spell big losses for the U.S. economy. According to US Travel, international travel spending directly supports 1.2 million American jobs, accounting for nearly $32.4 billion in wages. They estimate that the typical overseas traveler spends around $4,360 when visiting the United States, over an 18 night stay.

Cities across the U.S. have seen the writing on the wall and are bracing for declining tourism revenues. Los Angeles Tourism board led the charge earlier this year, putting millions towards a marketing campaign to welcome foreigners with a gigantic human powered sign that welcomed incoming planes in four languages. Other tourism boards have followed suit with their own campaigns.

But as the third executive announcement is implemented and the Supreme Court hearing on the previous travel bans is cancelled, many industry experts wonder if this is just the beginning of another lagging sector in the U.S. economy as tourists choose destinations with easier, more comprehensive visa policies. *Link*






Gomig-21 said:


> Apparently he's not the only one who feels that way, just the only one who's speaking out (so far) because he's on this way to retirement so he's obviously not worried about the implications of what he says, and according to many credible people, the sentiment is shared by several others within the Republican party. That just doesn't bode well for the president who seems to add to his list of enemies on a daily basis.


I agree, but still, it’s unusual, even those who are retiring and don’t fear electrical retribution, don’t criticize the Presidents from their own party.

And the other thing that I observed was that most of the Republican Senators have avoided taking sides, in other words, none of them defended their own Republican President.


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## Gomig-21

Rachel got it right. Typical infant when he doesn't get his way. Great gif lol.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/919900250621521921

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## RabzonKhan

Since the Republicans failed several times to destroy Obama care through Congress, Trump is now trying to destroy it through his callous executive order. Once again it shows that filthy rich Trump does not give a damn about the poor people.






*Pro-Trump states most affected by his health care decision
*
By CHRISTINA A. CASSIDY and MEGHAN HOYER

President Donald Trump’s decision to end a provision of the Affordable Care Act that was benefiting roughly 6 million Americans helps fulfill a campaign promise, but it also risks harming some of the very people who helped him win the presidency.

*Nearly 70 percent of those benefiting from the so-called cost-sharing subsidies live in states Trump won last November, according to an analysis by The Associated Press. The number underscores the political risk for Trump and his party, which could end up owning the blame for increased costs and chaos in the insurance marketplace.*

The subsidies are paid to insurers by the federal government to help lower consumers’ deductibles and co-pays. People who benefit will continue receiving the discounts because insurers are obligated by law to provide them. But to make up for the lost federal funding, health insurers will have to raise premiums substantially, potentially putting coverage out of reach for many consumers.

*Some insurers may decide to bail out of markets altogether.*

“I woke up, really, in horror,” said Alice Thompson, 62, an environmental consultant from the Milwaukee area who purchases insurance on Wisconsin’s federally run health insurance exchange.

Thompson, who spoke with reporters on a call organized by a health care advocacy group, said she expects to pay 30 percent to 50 percent more per year for her monthly premium, potentially more than her mortgage payment. Officials in Wisconsin, a state that went for a Republican presidential candidate for the first time in decades last fall, assumed the federal subsidy would end when they approved premium rate increases averaging 36 percent for the coming year.

*An estimated 4 million people were benefiting from the cost-sharing payments in the 30 states Trump carried, according to an analysis of 2017 enrollment data from the U.S. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Of the 10 states with the highest percentage of consumers benefiting from cost-sharing, all but one — Massachusetts — went for Trump.*

Kentucky embraced former President Barack Obama’s Affordable Care Act under its last governor, a Democrat, and posted some of the largest gains in getting its residents insured. Its new governor, a Republican, favors the GOP stance to replace it with something else.

Roughly half of the estimated 71,000 Kentuckians buying health insurance on the federal exchange were benefiting from the cost-sharing subsidies Trump just ended. Despite the gains from Obama’s law, the state went for Trump last fall even as he vowed to repeal it.

Consumers such as Marsha Clark fear what will happen in the years ahead, as insurers raise premiums on everyone to make up for the end of the federal money that helped lower deductibles and co-pays.

“I’m stressed out about the insurance, stressed out about the overall economy, and I’m very stressed out about our president,” said Clark, a 61-year-old real estate broker who lives in a small town about an hour’s drive south of Louisville. She pays $1,108 a month for health insurance purchased on the exchange.

While she earns too much to benefit from the cost-sharing subsidy, she is worried that monthly premiums will rise so high in the future that it will make insurance unaffordable.

Sherry Riggs has a similar fear. The Fort Pierce, Florida, barber benefits from the deductible and co-pay discounts, as do more than 1 million other Floridians, the highest number of cost-sharing beneficiaries of any state.

She had bypass surgery following a heart attack last year and pays just $10 a visit to see her cardiologist and only a few dollars for the medications she takes twice a day.

Her monthly premium is heavily subsidized by the federal government, but she worries about the cost soaring in the future. Florida, another state that swung for Trump, has approved rate increases averaging 45 percent.

“Probably for some people it would be a death sentence,” she said. “I think it’s kind of a tragic decision on the president’s part. It scares me because I don’t think I’ll be able to afford it next year.”

Rates already were rising in the immediate aftermath of Trump’s decision. Insurance regulators in Arkansas, another state that went for Trump, approved premium increases on Friday ranging from 14 percent to nearly 25 percent for plans offered through the insurance marketplace. Had federal cost-sharing been retained, the premiums would have risen by no more than 10 percent.

*In Mississippi, another state Trump won, an estimated 80 percent of consumers who buy coverage on the insurance exchange benefit from the deductible and co-pay discounts, the highest percentage of any state. Premiums there will increase by 47 percent next year, after regulators assumed Trump would end the cost-sharing payments.*

*The National Association of Insurance Commissioners has estimated the loss of the subsidies would result in a 12 percent to 15 percent increase in premiums, while the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has put the figure at 20 percent. Experts say the political instability over Trump’s effort to undermine Obama’s health care law could prompt more insurers to leave markets, reducing competition and driving up prices.*

Trump’s move concerned some Republicans, worried the party will be blamed for the effects on consumers and insurance markets.

“I think the president is ill-advised to take this course of action, because we, at the end of the day, will own this,” Republican Rep. Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania said Friday on CNN. “We, the Republican Party, will own this.”

Dent is not running for re-election.

In announcing his decision, Trump argued the subsidies were payouts to insurance companies, and the government could not legally continue to make them. The subsidies have been the subject of an ongoing legal battle because the health care law failed to include a congressional appropriation, which is required before federal money can be spent.

The subsidies will cost about $7 billion this year.

Many Republicans praised Trump’s action, saying Obama’s law has led to a spike in insurance costs for those who have to buy policies on the individual market.

Among them is Republican Rep. Andy Biggs of Arizona, a state Trump won. An estimated 78,000 Arizonans were benefiting from the federal subsidies for deductibles and co-pays.

“While his actions do not take the place of real legislative repeal and revitalization of free-market health care, he is doing everything possible to save Americans from crippling health care costs and decreasing quality of care,” Biggs said. *Link*

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## Gomig-21



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## RabzonKhan

*Instead of U.S. midterms, Sanders focuses on smaller races
*
Amanda Becker, Richard Cowan

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders will focus on getting liberal candidates elected to state and local offices ahead of next year’s midterm elections rather than on higher-profile U.S. congressional races, to help build a national progressive movement from the ground up.

U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) is interviewed by Reuters reporters at his office on Capitol Hill in Washington, U.S. October 17, 2017. REUTERS/Eric Thayer

Sanders said he hoped his emphasis on school boards, city councils and statehouses will help support the next generation of activist progressive candidates and dovetail with the mission of Our Revolution, a nonprofit political group run by former staffers and volunteers for his 2016 presidential campaign.

“I look at politics a little bit differently than some of my colleagues in the sense that I believe that we need to build a national grassroots movement,” Sanders told Reuters in an interview on Tuesday.

“So I think my emphasis is going to be more on grassroots politics,” he added.

Sanders, an independent in the U.S. Senate, galvanized the Democratic Party’s progressive wing last year with his primary challenge against eventual nominee Hillary Clinton.

Sanders, 76, drew huge crowds and won 43 percent of Democratic primary voters with his calls to end the influence of big money in politics, create Medicare-for all healthcare and establish free tuition at public universities.

Democrats are arguing over the best way out of a deep electoral rut capped by Clinton’s presidential election defeat by Republican Donald Trump. The party lost nearly 1,000 state legislative seats nationally during former President Barack Obama’s two terms in the White House, and hold the fewest governor’s offices in nearly a century.

*NEW GENERATION*

“There is an absolute need for the development of a new generation of leadership,” said Democratic strategist Erik Smith, adding that current Republican victories are the result of grassroots investment in the 1980s.

Sanders said the type of progressive policies he espoused during his campaign are winning support around the country.

He traveled to Georgia last month to campaign for Vincent Fort, a state senator running for Atlanta mayor. Sanders called Fort, who supports a $15 per hour minimum wage and the expansion of the Medicaid health insurance program for the poor and disabled, a “life-long progressive.”

Sanders also pointed to the success of local candidates backed by Our Revolution, including Randall Woodfin, a school board president who triumphed in a crowded field to oust the incumbent Democratic mayor of Birmingham, Alabama, and Chokwe Antar Lumumba, who defeated an incumbent and a state senator to become the Democratic nominee for mayor in Jackson, Mississippi.

“Democrats suffer from thin-bench syndrome in so many states,” said Matt Barron, a Massachusetts Democratic strategist focusing on rural issues.

Barron pointed out that in Mississippi, just one of eight statewide offices is held by a Democrat and both chambers of the legislature are controlled by Republicans. “There is almost nobody to run,” he said.

Sanders said he plans to travel to Somerville, Massachusetts, next week to support a half dozen candidates in city council races.


“If you look at cities and town and school boards, what you see all over the country is that we are in fact making progress,” Sanders said.

While Sanders frequently exasperated Clinton and her supporters, his policy prescriptions won support from many Democrats and the party has shifted to the left since Clinton’s defeat. Many potential 2020 Democratic presidential candidates back Sanders’ Medicare-for-all proposal.

Republicans hold 52 seats in the 100-member U.S. Senate, and Democrats and independents will be defending 25 of the 34 seats up for re-election in 2018. In the U.S. House of Representatives, Democrats hold 194 of 435 seats and all are up for re-election next year. *Link*



*
*


Gomig-21 said:


>


Playing politics with the deaths of fallen soldiers is absolutely disgusting, it seems he just can’t stop slandering Obama, he really needs to get over his inferiority complex.

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## RabzonKhan

White House chief of staff Gen. Kelly embarrassed himself by trying to defend the indefensible. Yesterday at the White House press briefing, Gen. Kelly defended his lying boss and unnecessarily criticized Democrat congresswoman Frederica Wilson.

At the briefing Gen. Kelly recalled a ceremony at a FBI building in Florida, he said:

that a “congresswoman stood up, and in the long tradition of empty barrels making the most noise, stood up there and all of that and talked about how she was instrumental in getting the funding for that building, and how she took care of her constituents because she got the money, and she just called up Pres Obama, and on that phone call he gave the money – the $20 million – to build the building. And she sat down, and we were stunned. Stunned that she had done it. Even for someone that is that empty a barrel, we were stunned.” *Link*

I am stunned, because it seems that every word Gen. Kelly said was a lie, Gen. Kelly just lost my respect and I’m pretty sure of millions of other Americans. One wonders, what’s wrong with this White House, are these people allergic to honesty?

Here is a video from the event that Gen. Kelly was referring to: *Link*





I didn’t know that the House Speaker Paul Ryan has a good sense of humor, It was really a pleasant surprise. 





House Speaker Paul Ryan Cracks Jokes About President Donald Trump At Al Smith Dinner | NBC News

*Speaker Paul Ryan Roasts President Trump at Al Smith Dinner*

by LEIGH ANN CALDWELL

House Speaker Paul Ryan opened his speech at the Al Smith Dinner in New York City with a joke about President Donald Trump.

"Please, enough. You sound like the Cabinet when Donald Trump walks into the room," he said as the audience applauded while he walked up to the podium, likely referring to the repeated occurrence of Cabinet officials' praising the president in front of television cameras.

Ryan, R-Wis., was the keynote speaker at the 72nd annual charity dinner for the Alfred E. Smith Foundation, which has close ties to the Catholic Archdiocese of New York. It's named for the Democrats' 1928 presidential nominee, the first Catholic nominated by a major party.

Ryan maintained the tradition of speeches that are traditionally roasts, mostly of high-profile politicians. And many of Ryan's jokes were directed at the president.

"Every morning, I wake up in my office and scroll Twitter to see which tweets I will have to pretend that I didn't see later," said Ryan, who is often asked what he thinks about Trump's controversial tweets. For months, he responded by saying he didn't respond to the president's tweets.

The white-tie affair gets its most attention in presidential election years, when the major-party nominees roast each other.

Last year's dinner was a rather tense affair, as Trump's comments were biting and he was mostly defensive. Ryan didn't let that night a year ago pass unremarked upon:

"I know last year at this dinner Donald Trump offended some people with his comments, which critics said went too far. Some said it was unbecoming of a public figure and that his comments were offensive. ... Well, thank God he's learned his lesson."

Related: How An Awkward Charity Dinner Summed Up the 2016 Campaign

Not all of Ryan's jokes targeted Trump. He didn't forget Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer and the news media:


"I'm from Wisconsin. It's a great state to visit in the fall. Looking back, someone should have told Hillary Speaking of which, I got Hillary's new book. This sums up today's politics perfectly. She took eight months, writing 10 hours a day, to explain what happened in 512 pages. The president explained it in a tweet. Hash tag, I won."
"Everyone will report what happened here tonight differently. Breitbart will lead with 'Ryan slams the president amongst liberal elites.' The New York Times will report 'Ryan defends the President in a state Hillary won.' And the president will tweet, '300,000 at Al Smith dinner cheer mention of my name.'"
"Every afternoon, former Speaker John Boehner calls me up. Not to give advice. Just to laugh."
"I learned how to handle insults. Steve Bannon said I was born in a petri dish at the Heritage Foundation. This is amazing — no one knew Steve believed in science."
"I know why Chuck [Schumer] has been so hard on President Trump. It's not ideological. Chuck is just mad he lost his top donor." *Link*

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## recon scout




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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Trump's first budget passed Senate with 51 votes yes to 49 votes no.


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## RabzonKhan

Lol, Sen McCain throws another punch at Trump, in an interview about the Vietnam war, the senator said:

“One aspect of the conflict, by the way, that I will never ever countenance is that we drafted the lowest-income level of America, and the highest-income level found a doctor that would say that they had a bone spur,” That is wrong. That is wrong. If we are going to ask every American to serve, every American should serve.”

Note, draft dodger, Trump was granted five draft deferments, four for college and one for bone spurs in his heel, while the record shows that he played high school basketball. *Link*










recon scout said:


>


Just to clarify, the video that you posted is of Army staff Sgt. Mark De Alencar, who was killed in Afghanistan, the ongoing controversy is about Trump’s insensitive phone call to the widow of Sgt. La David Johnson, who was killed in Niger.

Myeshia Johnson Widow of 'Sgt. La David Johnson' Slams Trump:








undertakerwwefan said:


> Trump's first budget passed Senate with 51 votes yes to 49 votes no.


It’s a long process, since the Senate bill is quite different from the Republican House bill, the Senate will have to either reconcile their budget resolution with the House bill, or the House will have to pass a new bill similar to the Senate bill. And only after that the the Republicans can start writing a tax bill that they’re hoping to pass this year.

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## RabzonKhan

*Democrats’ early money haul stuns GOP*

*A historic number of well-funded candidates have flooded Republican House districts ahead of 2018.*

By ELENA SCHNEIDER 10/23/2017 

Democratic candidates are reporting historic early fundraising totals, alarming GOP strategists and raising the prospect that 2018 could feature the most expansive House battlefield in years.

*Animated by opposition to President Donald Trump and the Republican congressional majorities, at least 162 Democratic candidates in 82 GOP-held districts have raised over $100,000 so far this year, according to a POLITICO analysis of the latest FEC data. That’s about four times as many candidates as House Democrats had at this point before the 2016 or 2014 elections, and it’s more than twice as many as Republicans had running at this point eight years ago, on the eve of capturing the House in the 2010 wave election.*

Nearly three dozen Republican incumbents were outraised by Democratic challengers in the third quarter of this year – a stunning figure. Nine GOP incumbents already trail a Democratic opponent in cash on hand, increasing the likelihood that many veteran incumbents will face tough opposition for the first time in years.

*The Democrats’ fundraising success, especially from a glut of candidates who have never run for office before, is unsettling to those charged with protecting the GOP majority.

“That’s something that should get every Republican’s attention in Washington,” said Jason Roe, a Republican strategist who works on House races. “These first-timers are printing money."*

Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen (R-N.J.), who has never gotten less than 58 percent of the vote in 12 terms in Congress, is among those suddenly facing cash-flush opposition. Three Democratic opponents outraised Frelinghuysen in the third quarter, and each has already brought in more money than any challenger Frelinghuysen has faced in a quarter-century.

In Texas, GOP Rep. John Culberson, whose Houston-area district attracted little attention from either party before Hillary Clinton carried it in 2016, finished the summer with less campaign cash than two different Democratic opponents.

*The long slate of well-funded Democratic candidates, coupled with a favorable political environment and poor polling numbers for Trump, is raising Democratic hopes of erasing the GOP’s 24-seat majority.*

“The Democrats in 2017 are starting to very much resemble the Republicans in 2009,” said former Rep. Steve Israel, who chaired the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee in 2012 and 2014. “People are talking about a wave developing, but in order to even begin to think about a wave, you have to be in a position to take advantage in [case of] a wave. And Democrats are clearly in that position.”

Many Republican representatives, especially ones battle-hardened from past campaigns, are already preparing hard for 2018 by shoring up their positions. Reps. Martha McSally (R-Ariz.) and Barbara Comstock (R-Va.), for example, vastly outraised all of their Democratic challengers in the last quarter as they ready for reelection campaigns in districts Trump lost in 2016.

“The fact that the environment is so intense so early is ultimately a good thing, as it makes sure more members will be prepared,” said Mike DuHaime, a Republican operative. “They can see it coming.”

Republican groups are also raising tens of millions of dollars to help bolster their party. The Republican National Committee in particular has outstripped the Democratic National Committee, raising over $100 million and building up cash reserves of over $44 million this year, ahead of the 2018 elections. House Speaker Paul Ryan has also raised record-setting amounts of money for House Republicans.

The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee raised $8.9 million in September, beating its Republican counterpart for the fifth month in a row. But the National Republican Congressional Committee still has more than $10 million more in its bank account — money that will come in handy across the sprawling battleground, especially if more incumbents retire.

Democrats and Republicans each have a handful of costly, open battleground seats to defend, from Rep. Dave Reichert’s (R-Wash.) suburban district outside Seattle to Democratic Rep. Tim Walz’s rural seat in southern Minnesota.

“Resources will be spread thin because no incumbent — in the primary or in the general — can afford to not take this seriously,” said Roe, the Republican consultant. “We’re just spread thin. That’s our vulnerability, the strain on resources."

That strain was apparent in recent comments by Rep. Glenn Grothman, who represents a solidly Republican block of eastern Wisconsin, easily won reelection in 2016, and has not typically made lists of GOP incumbents vulnerable to a 2018 challenge. Grothman told a local radio program earlier this month that he’s “very apprehensive about the future,” because “the fundraising is not going as well as I’d like.”

“We’re not raising as much money as we should,” Grothman added.

A week later, his Democratic opponent, Dan Kohl, filed a campaign finance disclosure showing him outpacing the Republican incumbent.

*“Clearly there is an intensity among the Democratic base that is similar to what Republicans had in 2009, but it’s hard to tell what it’s going to be like a year from now,” said DuHaime. “But you can’t deny the enthusiasm.”*

Stung by over-optimistic projections in past years, Democratic operatives have been careful to avoid declaring a wave on the horizon. With so many candidates piling into crowded Democratic primaries, they worry about their own resources being drained and fear nominees could be pulled too far to the left before difficult general election battles next year.

*“It’s way too early to start measuring the drapes,” said former DCCC executive director Kelly Ward, now a top staffer at the National Democratic Redistricting Committee, adding that under the current congressional map, “you need a tsunami, not just a wave, to overcome how badly the [district] lines are broken."*

The party’s first order of business in 2018 will be to navigate an unusual number of expensive primaries looming due to the free-flowing money and the opportunity Democrats smell in dozens of districts. In southern California, two of the biggest Democratic self-funders in the country — Andy Thorburn, who loaned his campaign $2 million, and Gil Cisneros, who gave his campaign over half a million dollars — are both running against GOP Rep. Ed Royce, along with a handful of other candidates. Three other districts in Orange County alone are similarly crowded, and drenched in campaign money.

*In some primaries, local Democrats are pushing back on national party leaders’ anointment of candidates, as in the fight to take on Rep. Mike Coffman in Colorado. Democrats also expect issues like Sen. Bernie Sanders’ Medicare-for-all plan to divide candidates, and Republicans are ready to pounce on statements that may play well in Democratic primaries but could be damaging in swing-district general elections.*

“Nothing beats watching candidates blow their cash trying to explain how progressive they are and how they are ‘still on the fence’ about Nancy Pelosi’s place in their party,” said Jesse Hunt, the press secretary for the National Republican Congressional Committee.

Israel acknowledged the debates within his party but said he does not believe they will weaken Democratic candidates next November.

“To the extent that there are differences, they are certainly not sapping Democrats’ fundraising abilities, not sapping Democratic recruitment and certainly not sapping Democratic energy,” Israel said. “There may be fissures, but they are not swallowing up our party. The Republicans have fissures that are swallowing up their party.” *Link*

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## RabzonKhan

Oh, my goodness, as usual, Trump lied again, he is again blaming Sen Bob Corker for the Iran deal. The fact is, the Senator not only voted against the deal, but was one of the strongest opponent of the deal. *Link*








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/922798321739161600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/922807083526914049


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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> Democratic candidates are reporting historic early fundraising totals, alarming GOP strategists and raising the prospect that 2018 could feature the most expansive House battlefield in years.



The coming midterms are going to be crucial.


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## RabzonKhan

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The coming midterms are going to be crucial.


No doubt, and I am hoping the Democrats can retake the House.


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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> No doubt, and I am hoping the Democrats can retake the House.



That is why the gerrymandering case before the SC is going to be very important, since it will determine whether popular support for the Democrats can be translated into actual seats. Or not.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Jeff Flake announces he will not seek re election in 2018

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul Ryan issues statement on Iraq

https://www.speaker.gov/press-release/statement-iraq


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## RabzonKhan

undertakerwwefan said:


> Jeff Flake announces he will not seek re election in 2018


Thanks for posting.

Wow, Sen Jeff Flake delivered an absolutely stunning take down of Trump on the Senate floor.

The following is the text of Sen. Jeff Flake's remarks from the floor of the U.S. Senate on Oct. 24, 2017:

*Mr. President, I rise today to address a matter that has been much on my mind, at a moment when it seems that our democracy is more defined by our discord and our dysfunction than it is by our values and our principles. Let me begin by noting a somewhat obvious point that these offices that we hold are not ours to hold indefinitely. We are not here simply to mark time. Sustained incumbency is certainly not the point of seeking office. And there are times when we must risk our careers in favor of our principles.*

*Now is such a time. * 

*It must also be said that I rise today with no small measure of regret. Regret, because of the state of our disunion, regret because of the disrepair and destructiveness of our politics, regret because of the indecency of our discourse, regret because of the coarseness of our leadership, regret for the compromise of our moral authority, and by our — all of our — complicity in this alarming and dangerous state of affairs. It is time for our complicity and our accommodation of the unacceptable to end.*

*In this century, a new phrase has entered the language to describe the accommodation of a new and undesirable order — that phrase being “the new normal.” But we must never adjust to the present coarseness of our national dialogue — with the tone set at the top.*

*We must never regard as “normal” the regular and casual undermining of our democratic norms and ideals. We must never meekly accept the daily sundering of our country — the personal attacks, the threats against principles, freedoms, and institutions; the flagrant disregard for truth or decency, the reckless provocations, most often for the pettiest and most personal reasons, reasons having nothing whatsoever to do with the fortunes of the people that we have all been elected to serve.*

None of these appalling features of our current politics should ever be regarded as normal. We must never allow ourselves to lapse into thinking that this is just the way things are now. If we simply become inured to this condition, thinking that this is just politics as usual, then heaven help us. Without fear of the consequences, and without consideration of the rules of what is politically safe or palatable, we must stop pretending that the degradation of our politics and the conduct of some in our executive branch are normal. They are not normal.

*Reckless, outrageous, and undignified behavior has become excused and countenanced as “telling it like it is,” when it is actually just reckless, outrageous, and undignified.*

*And when such behavior emanates from the top of our government, it is something else: It is dangerous to a democracy. Such behavior does not project strength — because our strength comes from our values. It instead projects a corruption of the spirit, and weakness.*

*It is often said that children are watching. Well, they are. And what are we going to do about that? When the next generation asks us, Why didn’t you do something? Why didn’t you speak up? — what are we going to say?*

Mr. President, I rise today to say: Enough. We must dedicate ourselves to making sure that the anomalous never becomes normal. With respect and humility, I must say that we have fooled ourselves for long enough that a pivot to governing is right around the corner, a return to civility and stability right behind it. We know better than that. By now, we all know better than that.

Here, today, I stand to say that we would better serve the country and better fulfill our obligations under the constitution by adhering to our Article 1 “old normal” — Mr. Madison’s doctrine of the separation of powers. This genius innovation which affirms Madison’s status as a true visionary and for which Madison argued in Federalist 51 — held that the equal branches of our government would balance and counteract each other when necessary. “Ambition counteracts ambition,” he wrote.

But what happens if ambition fails to counteract ambition? What happens if stability fails to assert itself in the face of chaos and instability? If decency fails to call out indecency? Were the shoe on the other foot, would we Republicans meekly accept such behavior on display from dominant Democrats? Of course not, and we would be wrong if we did.

When we remain silent and fail to act when we know that that silence and inaction is the wrong thing to do — because of political considerations, because we might make enemies, because we might alienate the base, because we might provoke a primary challenge, because ad infinitum, ad nauseum — when we succumb to those considerations in spite of what should be greater considerations and imperatives in defense of the institutions of our liberty, then we dishonor our principles and forsake our obligations. Those things are far more important than politics.

Now, I am aware that more politically savvy people than I caution against such talk. I am aware that a segment of my party believes that anything short of complete and unquestioning loyalty to a president who belongs to my party is unacceptable and suspect.

*If I have been critical, it is not because I relish criticizing the behavior of the president of the United States. If I have been critical, it is because I believe that it is my obligation to do so, as a matter of duty and conscience.* The notion that one should stay silent as the norms and values that keep America strong are undermined and as the alliances and agreements that ensure the stability of the entire world are routinely threatened by the level of thought that goes into 140 characters — the notion that one should say and do nothing in the face of such mercurial behavior is ahistoric and, I believe, profoundly misguided.

*A Republican president named Roosevelt had this to say about the president and a citizen’s relationship to the office:*

*“The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants.He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the nation as a whole.* Therefore, it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly as necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile.” President Roosevelt continued: “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

Acting on conscience and principle is the manner in which we express our moral selves, and as such, loyalty to conscience and principle should supersede loyalty to any man or party. We can all be forgiven for failing in that measure from time to time. I certainly put myself at the top of the list of those who fall short in that regard. I am holier-than-none. But too often, we rush not to salvage principle but to forgive and excuse our failures so that we might accommodate them and go right on failing — until the accommodation itself becomes our principle.

In that way and over time, we can justify almost any behavior and sacrifice almost any principle. I’m afraid that is where we now find ourselves.

When a leader correctly identifies real hurt and insecurity in our country and instead of addressing it goes looking for somebody to blame, there is perhaps nothing more devastating to a pluralistic society. Leadership knows that most often a good place to start in assigning blame is to first look somewhat closer to home. Leadership knows where the buck stops. Humility helps. Character counts. Leadership does not knowingly encourage or feed ugly and debased appetites in us.

*Leadership lives by the American creed: E Pluribus Unum. From many, one. American leadership looks to the world, and just as Lincoln did, sees the family of man. Humanity is not a zero-sum game. When we have been at our most prosperous, we have also been at our most principled. And when we do well, the rest of the world also does well.*

These articles of civic faith have been central to the American identity for as long as we have all been alive. They are our birthright and our obligation. We must guard them jealously, and pass them on for as long as the calendar has days. To betray them or to be unserious in their defense is a betrayal of the fundamental obligations of American leadership. And to behave as if they don’t matter is simply not who we are.

*Now, the efficacy of American leadership around the globe has come into question. When the United States emerged from World War II we contributed about half of the world’s economic activity. It would have been easy to secure our dominance, keeping the countries that had been defeated or greatly weakened during the war in their place. We didn’t do that. It would have been easy to focus inward. We resisted those impulses. Instead, we financed reconstruction of shattered countries and created international organizations and institutions that have helped provide security and foster prosperity around the world for more than 70 years.*

*Now, it seems that we, the architects of this visionary rules-based world order that has brought so much freedom and prosperity, are the ones most eager to abandon it.*

*The implications of this abandonment are profound. And the beneficiaries of this rather radical departure in the American approach to the world are the ideological enemies of our values. Despotism loves a vacuum. And our allies are now looking elsewhere for leadership. Why are they doing this? None of this is normal. And what do we as United States Senators have to say about it?*

The principles that underlie our politics, the values of our founding, are too vital to our identity and to our survival to allow them to be compromised by the requirements of politics. Because politics can make us silent when we should speak, and silence can equal complicity.

I have children and grandchildren to answer to, and so, Mr. President, I will not be complicit.

I have decided that I will be better able to represent the people of Arizona and to better serve my country and my conscience by freeing myself from the political considerations that consume far too much bandwidth and would cause me to compromise far too many principles.

To that end, I am announcing today that my service in the Senate will conclude at the end of my term in early January 2019.

It is clear at this moment that a traditional conservative who believes in limited government and free markets, who is devoted to free trade, and who is pro-immigration, has a narrower and narrower path to nomination in the Republican party — the party that for so long has defined itself by belief in those things. It is also clear to me for the moment we have given in or given up on those core principles in favor of the more viscerally satisfying anger and resentment. To be clear, the anger and resentment that the people feel at the royal mess we have created are justified. But anger and resentment are not a governing philosophy.

There is an undeniable potency to a populist appeal — but mischaracterizing or misunderstanding our problems and giving in to the impulse to scapegoat and belittle threatens to turn us into a fearful, backward-looking people. In the case of the Republican party, those things also threaten to turn us into a fearful, backward-looking minority party.

We were not made great as a country by indulging or even exalting our worst impulses, turning against ourselves, glorying in the things which divide us, and calling fake things true and true things fake. And we did not become the beacon of freedom in the darkest corners of the world by flouting our institutions and failing to understand just how hard-won and vulnerable they are. 

This spell will eventually break. That is my belief. We will return to ourselves once more, and I say the sooner the better. Because to have a healthy government we must have healthy and functioning parties. We must respect each other again in an atmosphere of shared facts and shared values, comity and good faith. We must argue our positions fervently, and never be afraid to compromise. We must assume the best of our fellow man, and always look for the good. Until that days comes, we must be unafraid to stand up and speak out as if our country depends on it. Because it does.

I plan to spend the remaining fourteen months of my senate term doing just that.

*Mr. President, the graveyard is full of indispensable men and women — none of us here is indispensable. Nor were even the great figures from history who toiled at these very desks in this very chamber to shape this country that we have inherited. What is indispensable are the values that they consecrated in Philadelphia and in this place, values which have endured and will endure for so long as men and women wish to remain free. What is indispensable is what we do here in defense of those values. A political career doesn’t mean much if we are complicit in undermining those values.*

I thank my colleagues for indulging me here today, and will close by borrowing the words of President Lincoln, who knew more about healing enmity and preserving our founding values than any other American who has ever lived. His words from his first inaugural were a prayer in his time, and are no less so in ours:

“We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.”

Thank you, Mr. President. I yield the floor. *Link*



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> That is why the gerrymandering case before the SC is going to be very important, since it will determine whether popular support for the Democrats can be translated into actual seats. Or not.


Exactly, time and again the Democrats have won more votes and still the Republicans ended up with more seats.

Unfortunately, it looks like it all depends on Justice Anthony Kennedy and one can hope this time it will be different than 2004. The minimum the court can do is set some clear standards and at least put an end to the extreme gerrymandering. I believe gerrymandering is a bigger threat to our democracy then Donald Trump, Trump will be gone in a few years, but the curse of gerrymandering is becoming more extreme.


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## Nilgiri

Ben Shapiro posted a good rebuke on Jeff "Snow" Flake from even a conservative largely anti-Trump perspective:


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## RabzonKhan

*Since Trump Took Office, State Democrats' Chances Have Improved for 2018
*
*The GOP holds the majority of governorships, but the number of those vulnerable next year has doubled.*

BY LOUIS JACOBSON | OCTOBER 27, 2017


With the Democrats out of power in Washington, D.C., next year’s governors’ races have become crucial for salvaging the party’s political future. The good news for the party is that there will be a bounty of pickup opportunities.

Today, the GOP holds a 34-15 edge in gubernatorial offices, with one -- Alaska’s Bill Walker -- an independent. Of course, that balance could slightly change next month when voters in New Jersey and Virginia elect their next governors. But looking ahead to the 36 races next year, Republicans will have more governorships to defend: 26 to the Democrats’ nine.

Another bit of good news for Democrats is that for the first time since 2006, Republicans will control the White House and Congress during a midterm election. Historically, voters have chosen to use midterms to register their frustration with the incumbent party at the federal level. If that pattern holds, it could affect the governors' races.

But the best news for Democrats is that the number of competitive races is growing, at least compared to the last time we handicapped them in January.

Back then, we rated 10 of the 36 seats up for grabs in 2018 as vulnerable for the incumbent party. Of those, six are held by Republicans and four by Democrats. By contrast, we now find that 17 seats are vulnerable for the party in power -- 12 held by the GOP and five by the Democrats. That’s a more than 50 percent increase in vulnerable seats.

Drilling down further, the Republicans have seven vulnerable open seats and five vulnerable incumbents.

Three Republican-held governorships are so vulnerable that we’ve rated them lean Democratic. Those are the open seats being vacated by Paul LePage of Maine and Susana Martinez of New Mexico, as well as the seat held by incumbent Illinois Gov. Bruce Rauner, who announced his run for re-election earlier this week.

We’ve rated another three Republican-held governorships as tossups, each of them open seats: Florida, Michigan and Nevada.

The rest of the competitive Republican-held seats fall in the lean Republican category. They include the race in Ohio, where John Kasich is term-limited; in Iowa, where the governor has only been in office since Terry Branstad, the longest-serving governor, took a job with the Trump administration earlier this year; in Kansas, where a new governor is expected to take office once Sam Brownback gets confirmed as the nation's religious ambassador; and in Maryland, New Hampshire and Wisconsin, where incumbents are all running for re-election.

The Democrats, meanwhile, have three vulnerable open seats and two vulnerable incumbents. Three of those are in the tossup category -- the open seats in Colorado, Connecticut and Minnesota – and the remaining two, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island, are in the lean Democratic category.

In Alaska, we’re predicting that the race is leaning independent -- or, in other words, toward Walker. The Republican-turned-independent’s polling shows his approval ratings in the high 30s, which is why Republicans are lining up to challenge him. The candidates include state Sen. Mike Dunleavy, former state Sen. Charlie Huggins, former Lt. Gov. Loren Lehman, businessman and former state Sen. John Binkley, activist Scott Hawkins and former state Sen. Ben Stevens, the son of the late U.S. Sen. Ted Stevens. Walker’s chances of getting another term may hinge on the results of the 2018 legislative session, which will dwell on the state’s fiscal difficulties.

All told, in a neutral political environment, Democrats could gain up to three governorships nationally. If political winds are working in their favor, though, their net gain could be as high as five to seven seats.

The Trump administration's historically low approval ratings could hurt Republican gubernatorial candidates next year in purple and blue states if they express too much support for the president. Such pro-Trump rhetoric -- even if made during primaries when a candidate is appealing to his or her base -- could dampen enthusiasm among independents and Republicans in the general election.

Still, it’s worth remembering that the national political environment doesn’t always impact gubernatorial candidates, since many voters distinguish between political factors that affect federal races and state races.

The gubernatorial battleground in 2018 will be especially important because it offers Democrats the biggest potential haul of governorships in advance of the once-every-decade legislative and congressional redistricting process that will begin after the 2020 Census. In most states, governors play a role in redistricting, and with the Republicans currently controlling the majority of legislatures, Democrats will need a seat at the table to avoid being drawn out of most of the maps.

Before we delve in to the state-by-state breakdown of each 2018 race, a few notes: Vulnerability, in our ratings, does not mean an incumbent governor is at risk of losing a primary contest -- only a general election. As usual, our handicapping is based on consultations with multiple experts in the states as well as national party strategists. And within all categories the seats are listed from most to least vulnerable. The categories are safe Republican, likely Republican, lean Republican, tossup, lean Democratic, likely Democratic and safe Democratic.

*Safe Republican*

*Idaho:* Open seat; held by Gov. Butch Otter (R)

Otter has finally confirmed that he is not running again. While he was making his decision, though, the GOP field got pretty crowded. His lieutenant governor, Brad Little, has already been actively running for months. So has U.S. Rep. Raul Labrador and Boise developer Tommy Ahlquist, who’s less well-known around the state but has been throwing money into early ads.

For now, the Democrats don’t have a candidate, although the 2014 Democratic nominee, A.J. Balukoff might run again.

Barring something unexpected, the seat looks as safely Republican as any in the nation.

*South Dakota:* Open seat; held by Gov. Dennis Daugaard (R)

The race to replace term-limited Daugaard is wide open, although GOP Attorney General Marty Jackley may have a modest early edge. If U.S. Rep. Kristi Noem decides to jump in, she would be tough for Jackley to beat in the Republican primary.

The Democrats are expected to nominate state Sen. Billie Sutton, a former rodeo star who was injured in the ring and is now in a wheelchair. In this heavily red state, though, Sutton would be an enormous underdog.

*Arkansas* Gov. Asa Hutchinson (R)

Hutchinson remains highly likely to win a second term, though there have been rumors that gun activist and Fox News personality Jan Morgan might challenge him from the right in the GOP primary. While Democrats have shown a few signs of life in Arkansas after several rough campaign cycles, any candidate would still face long odds.

*Texas* Gov. Greg Abbott (R)

Abbott is a virtual lock to be re-elected. He is the most popular politician in the state and has more than $50 million in his campaign war chest, along with a strong team of advisers. Unlike in the Texas U.S. Senate race -- in which Democrats have recruited U.S. Rep. Beto O’Rourke to run against Republican incumbent Ted Cruz -- no credible Democrat has volunteered for a kamikaze mission against Abbott. One late-breaking possibility would be a run by outgoing state House Speaker Joe Straus, a Republican considered more moderate than Abbott and many others in the Texas GOP.

*Nebraska* Gov. Pete Ricketts (R)

Ricketts remains heavily favored to win a second term. An independent bid by moderate state Sen. Bob Krist could pose Ricketts his biggest challenge, more than any Democrat.

*Wyoming:* Open seat; held by Gov. Matt Mead (R)

The two leading candidates in the Republican field are state Treasurer Mark Gordon and Secretary of State Ed Murray. On the Democratic side, former state House Minority Leader Mary Throne is running. She’s moderate enough to be a credible candidate, but any Democrat faces long odds in Wyoming these days.

*Likely Republican
*
*Alabama* Gov. Kay Ivey (R)

Ivey ascended to the governor’s office when fellow Republican Robert Bentley resigned amid a sex scandal. But Ivey won’t have a free ride to a full term. Huntsville Mayor Tommy Battle may be her strongest challenger, but other candidates in the race include Jefferson County Commissioner David Carrington, preacher Scott Dawson, state Sen. Bill Hightower, businessman Joshua Jones and Agriculture Commissioner John McMillan.

The Democrats are pinning their hopes on one of two credible candidates: Tuscaloosa Mayor Walt Maddox and former Alabama Chief Justice Sue Bell. To have any hope, the Democrats would need to bank on widespread voter disgust with Alabama Republicans’ scandals in recent years.

*Oklahoma:* Open seat; held by Gov. Mary Fallin (R)

Even though term-limited Fallin has experienced a rough stretch due to falling oil prices, the state’s heavy Republican lean gives the GOP the edge. The two Republican frontrunners are Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett and Lt. Gov. Todd Lamb. Other contenders include Tulsa businessman Kevin Stitt, who has promised to spend several million dollars on his campaign, and Tulsa attorney Gary Richardson.

Democrats, for their part, hope that residual concerns about the economy and divisions on the GOP side will give them a boost. Democrats in the legislature are also doing their best to send the message that Republicans’ lack of unity means they can’t govern. The Democratic frontrunner is former Attorney General Drew Edmondson.

If Cornett is the GOP nominee, however, Democratic chances for an upset grow long.

*Tennessee:* Open seat; held by Gov. Bill Haslam (R)

There are several well-known, potentially well-funded Republicans who are looking to succeed Haslam, and that gives Republicans a big leg up. The GOP field includes U.S. Rep. Diane Black, former state economic development chief Randy Boyd, House Speaker Beth Harwell, businessman Bill Lee and longtime state Rep. Mae Beavers. Black and Boyd are probably the early favorites, although with a large field any of them could win.

The Democrats have two candidates: former Nashville Mayor Karl Dean and House Minority Leader Craig Fitzhugh. Dean is a modest favorite for the nomination. While Tennessee has been solidly red in recent years, it’s not inconceivable that a Democrat could defeat a weakened GOP nominee.

That said, the likeliest outcome is still a Republican victory.

*Georgia:* Open seat; held by Gov. Nathan Deal (R)

Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle and Secretary of State Brian Kemp are the most likely Republican candidates to succeed Deal, though they have plenty of competition from state senators Hunter Hill and Michael Williams, as well as Clay Tippins, an ex-Navy SEAL and tech executive.

The Democrats find themselves, somewhat uncomfortably, with a race of the Staceys: House Minority Leader Stacey Abrams and state Rep. Stacey Evans. Abrams is African-American and more liberal, and Evans is white and more moderate. The contest has been riven by black-white and progressive-centrist friction, as evidenced by the recent Netroots conference in Atlanta at which Evans was booed by Abrams supporters. Observers say Evans could pose a stronger general election challenge to whoever wins the GOP primary, but emerging from the Democratic primary will not be easy. While the Democrats gained ground in suburban Atlanta in 2016, they may not have enough juice yet to pull off a gubernatorial win.

*Vermont* Gov. Phil Scott (R)

Despite Vermont’s record as one of the nation’s bluest states, Scott won office in 2016 on a formula that has worked in the past -- running as a moderate Republican. It’s likely to work again, too. Scott hasn’t made any major errors yet, and Vermont voters tend not to throw out governors after one two-year term.

*South Carolina* Gov. Henry McMaster (R)

McMaster, who moved up from lieutenant governor after Nikki Haley resigned to become U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, won’t have a free ride to the GOP nomination. While he’s the favorite, he still faces a primary field that includes Kevin Bryant, the new lieutenant governor, and Catherine Templeton, who ran two agencies under Haley and who has posted strong fundraising numbers.

On the Democratic side, state Rep. James Smith is the front runner. Observers consider him a strong contender because of his Vietnam War background. Another expected Democratic hopeful is consultant Phil Noble. Democrats are strengthening their organization in the state, and some demographic trends point in their direction.

Nevertheless, South Carolina is still a red state, and the GOP nominee starts with the edge.

*Massachusetts* Gov. Charlie Baker (R)

Baker is just about the nation’s most popular governor, with a moderate Republican approach that has historically been popular in this otherwise heavily blue state. Massachusetts voters also haven’t denied an incumbent governor re-election in a general election since 1974, although governors lost primaries in 1978 and 1982.

The long odds of success are likely why no top-tier Democrat has entered the race yet. The Democratic field is led by Newton Mayor Setti Warren and former state finance secretary Jay Gonzalez. Unless something dramatic happens, Baker should survive even a challenging national midterm environment for the GOP.

*Arizona* Gov. Doug Ducey (R)

Ducey has had a relatively quiet first term, which may make him a tricky target for Democrats. The Democratic field features state Sen. Steve Farley and Arizona State University professor David Garcia. In 2016, Democrats were able to energize Latino voters with both Donald Trump and then-Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio on the ballot. Neither will be on the ballot again in 2018, but if fallout from the Trump presidency can continue energizing Latinos, Democrats will have a shot at winning. *Read more*

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## RabzonKhan

Breaking News: CNN and Reuters are reporting that Robert Mueller, the special counsel investigating Russian interference/obstruction of justice, has brought the first charges in a sealed indictment. Someone is going to be arrested on Monday.

Yes, locked them up! locked them up! locked them up! 

I’m just loving it! 




*First on CNN: First charges filed in Mueller investigation*
By Pamela Brown, Evan Perez and Shimon Prokupecz, 10/28/2017

Washington (CNN)A federal grand jury in Washington on Friday approved the first charges in the investigation led by special counsel Robert Mueller, according to sources briefed on the matter.

The charges are still sealed under orders from a federal judge. Plans were prepared Friday for anyone charged to be taken into custody as soon as Monday, the sources said. It is unclear what the charges are.
A spokesman for the special counsel's office declined to comment. The White House also had no comment, a senior administration official said Saturday morning.
Mueller was appointed in May to lead the investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election.

Under the regulations governing special counsel investigations, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who has oversight over the Russia investigation, would have been made aware of any charges before they were taken before the grand jury for approval, according to people familiar with the matter.

On Friday, top lawyers who are helping to lead the Mueller probe, including veteran prosecutor Andrew Weissmann, were seen entering the court room at the DC federal court where the grand jury meets to hear testimony in the Russia investigation.
Reporters present saw a flurry of activity at the grand jury room, but officials made no announcements.

Shortly after President Donald Trump abruptly fired then-FBI Director James Comey, Rosenstein appointed Mueller as special counsel. Mueller took the reins of a federal investigation that Comey first opened in July 2016 in the middle of the presidential campaign.
Mueller is authorized to investigate "any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation," according to Rosenstein's order.

The special counsel's investigation has focused on potential collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, as well as obstruction of justice by the President, who might have tried to impede the investigation. CNN reported that investigators are scrutinizing Trump and his associates' financial ties to Russia. *Read more*

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RabzonKhan said:


> Breaking News: CNN and Reuters are reporting that Robert Mueller, the special counsel investigating Russian interference/obstruction of justice, has brought the first charges in a sealed indictment. Someone is going to be arrested on Monday.
> 
> Yes, locked them up! locked them up! locked them up!
> 
> I’m just loving it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *First on CNN: First charges filed in Mueller investigation*
> By Pamela Brown, Evan Perez and Shimon Prokupecz, 10/28/2017
> 
> Washington (CNN)A federal grand jury in Washington on Friday approved the first charges in the investigation led by special counsel Robert Mueller, according to sources briefed on the matter.
> 
> The charges are still sealed under orders from a federal judge. Plans were prepared Friday for anyone charged to be taken into custody as soon as Monday, the sources said. It is unclear what the charges are.
> A spokesman for the special counsel's office declined to comment. The White House also had no comment, a senior administration official said Saturday morning.
> Mueller was appointed in May to lead the investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election.
> 
> Under the regulations governing special counsel investigations, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who has oversight over the Russia investigation, would have been made aware of any charges before they were taken before the grand jury for approval, according to people familiar with the matter.
> 
> On Friday, top lawyers who are helping to lead the Mueller probe, including veteran prosecutor Andrew Weissmann, were seen entering the court room at the DC federal court where the grand jury meets to hear testimony in the Russia investigation.
> Reporters present saw a flurry of activity at the grand jury room, but officials made no announcements.
> 
> Shortly after President Donald Trump abruptly fired then-FBI Director James Comey, Rosenstein appointed Mueller as special counsel. Mueller took the reins of a federal investigation that Comey first opened in July 2016 in the middle of the presidential campaign.
> Mueller is authorized to investigate "any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation," according to Rosenstein's order.
> 
> The special counsel's investigation has focused on potential collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, as well as obstruction of justice by the President, who might have tried to impede the investigation. CNN reported that investigators are scrutinizing Trump and his associates' financial ties to Russia. *Read more*



No one is getting arrested and it's just going to be someone no one even heard of.


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## Gomig-21

undertakerwwefan said:


> No one is getting arrested and it's just going to be someone no one even heard of.



I wouldn't be so sure, the FBI did raid Manafort's house and seized a lot of files they thought he might destroy. There's a couple of key figures that might be the culprits in this indictment. Tomorrow will be huge, if someone does in fact get arrested since that's the only way we'll find out who the indictment was issued against.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

No one is getting arrested. He'll probably indict someone so irrelevant no one's even heard of.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/30/politics/paul-manafort-russia-investigation-surrender/index.html

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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> Breaking News: CNN and Reuters are reporting that Robert Mueller, the special counsel investigating Russian interference/obstruction of justice, has brought the first charges in a sealed indictment. Someone is going to be arrested on Monday.
> 
> Yes, locked them up! locked them up! locked them up!
> 
> I’m just loving it!


I told ya, as expected, the first Trump crony surrenders. The game is on! I’m loving it! 


*Paul Manafort Has Surrendered To Federal Agents
*
October 30, 2017

Paul Manafort, President Trump's former campaign chairman, surrendered himself to federal law enforcement authorities on Monday morning, a Justice Department source tells NPR's Ryan Lucas, representing a new phase of the investigations into figures from Trump's inner circle.

Both Manafort and Rick Gates, his former deputy, were told to surrender, The New York Times reports. Over the summer, the pair registered with the U.S. government as foreign agents.

Manafort was taken into federal custody days after news emerged that a federal grand jury assembled by Department of Justice special counsel Robert Mueller had voted to indict a figure in Mueller's investigation into possible coordination between Russia and people close to the Trump campaign in last year's presidential election.

Manafort is perp walked through the front door of the FBI field office pic.twitter.com/LQdppFwTeW

— Tom Namako (@TomNamako) October 30, 2017
The grand jury's indictment may be unsealed on Monday; in addition to the main focus on Russia's efforts to tamper with the U.S. democratic process, Mueller's mandate also allows his team to probe any other criminal matters that arise during the course of its investigation.

FBI agents raided Manafort's home in Alexandria, Va., over the summer. *Link*

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## Gomig-21

Pretty obvious that it was going to be Manafort TBH, if one has been following what has going on, especially with the FBI raids on his house. This is also a federal indictment which is VERY serious business. This isn't a felony that has a $10,000 bail and ends up costing $15,000 in fines and 3 years probation. Once we find out what exactly the charges are, we'll be able to tell if he faces any time in prison and then what are the after-effects of Manafort's crimes to the rest of the campaign.















































PDF of the full indictment, 12 counts!

https://www.justice.gov/file/1007271/download

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## RabzonKhan

*Former Trump Campaign Chair Paul Manafort Faces 12 Federal Charges
*
*An indictment against him for conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, false statements, and other charges, is the first to emerge from special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russia interference in the 2016 election.*

David A. Graham 10/30/2017

Paul Manafort, the veteran GOP operative who chaired Donald Trump’s presidential campaign during the summer of 2016, along with his business partner Rick Gates, have been indicted by a federal grand jury in connection with special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation.

* The indictment, which was unsealed on Monday, contains 12 counts, including conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading statements under the Foreign Agent Registration Act, false statements, and seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts.*

Manafort walked into the FBI’s Washington Field Office, accompanied by his attorney, on Monday morning, and CNN reported Gates also turned himself in. The indictments represent the first cases to emerge from Mueller’s apparently wide-ranging investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election, including whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russians to influence the outcome. Reports on Friday had indicated that the first charges were expected Monday.

There have been many signs that Manafort, 68, was a target of the Mueller investigation, including a no-knock, early-morning raid on an apartment that he owns in Alexandria, Virginia, in July. Among the possible areas of interest are millions that Manafort apparently received from the political party of deposed Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, a client of Vladimir Putin for whom Manafort worked; an agreement with Oleg Deripaska, another Putin ally with whom Manafort signed an eight-figure lobbying contract; and a series of suspicious wire transfers and cash movements that some experts say could indicate money-laundering.

In June, Manafort retroactively filed disclosures under the Foreign Agents Registration Act for work between 2012 and 2014.

Gates, who is 45, is a junior partner and protégé of Manafort’s. Like Manafort, he joined the Trump campaign. He remained after Manafort left, but was forced out of a pro-Trump outside group in April amid the Russia probe.
*Political Repercussions*
The first charges in Mueller’s case come at a delicate time, and the way Washington reacts to them could set the stage for the next weeks, months, or even years in American politics.

* In recent days, an increasing number of Republican officeholders and conservative pundits have suggested that Mueller’s investigation should be disbanded. A campaign among conservative journalists has sought to recirculate an old story about a uranium deal as new information, framing it as more pressing than potential Russian collusion with the Trump team.*
*Although it sometimes feels as though the Russia probe has been years in the making, Mueller was only appointed to his post in May, shortly after President Trump fired FBI Director James Comey. In comparison with other, similar investigations, like the Clinton-era Whitewater case, the first charges here come unusually soon. While Mueller, a respected former FBI director himself, has tended to shun politics, and his team has been unusually leak-resistant, bringing charges now could serve the purpose of justifying his investigation by showing results.*

The president’s reaction to the charges is another x-factor. At times in the past, Trump and his allies have issued threats to the Mueller team through the press, attempting to restrict the scope of the investigation by suggesting that Trump might fire Mueller. Sunday morning, Trump tweeted, “All of this ‘Russia’ talk right when the Republicans are making their big push for historic Tax Cuts & Reform. Is this coincidental? NOT!” 
*Although Trump has been less eager to defend Manafort than some other former aides swept up in the investigation—former Press Secretary Sean Spicer once claimed Manafort “played a very limited role” on the campaign—the president could still attempt to force Mueller out. That would threaten a reprise of the 1973 Saturday night massacre, in which President Richard Nixon, seeking to fire the Watergate special prosecutor, saw his attorney general and deputy attorney general resign. Solicitor General Robert Bork did fire the prosecutor, but the incident ultimately hastened the end of Nixon’s presidency.*

*Manafort’s Background*
Although news of the pending indictment inspired fevered political oddsmaking over the weekend, Manafort should perhaps always have been the favorite for the first indictment. Although Mueller only took up his role in May, he took over a pre-existing investigation of Manafort when he began. Reports in September indicated that Manafort had been under FBI surveillance in his apartment at Trump Tower for at least two stretches, once starting in 2014 and ending before
Manafort joined the Trump campaign, and again starting some time in 2016.

Manafort, a veteran Republican operative, joined the Trump campaign in March 2016. He was hired for his expertise in counting delegates at conventions, stemming from his work successfully defending President Gerald Ford against a challenge from Ronald Reagan at the 1976 Republican National Convention. Manafort was also a former business partner of Roger Stone, the flamboyant on-again, off-again Trump adviser who is also said to be under scrutiny in the current probe.

Shortly after Manafort joined the campaign, Trump locked up enough delegates to effectively clinch the nomination, but on a troubled campaign filled with inexperienced and often ineffective workers, Manafort soon rose through the ranks, becoming campaign chair in May. Previous campaign manager Corey Lewandowski was soon pushed out amid campaign struggles and a controversy over his grabbing and manhandling a journalist at a Florida campaign event. *Read more*





@Gomig-21, thanks for the funny pics

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> @Gomig-21, thanks for the funny pics



He's getting pounded on Twitter lol. Seriously, you look at all the other president's accounts and then you look at his and it's like going from an adult conversation to a junior-high girl fight! It's pure gold, as scary as it is, to know this is the president of the United States being berated like a child, no pun intended. Never thought I'd see the day when a common citizen is telling the POTUS "you going to jail, bro" LOL! What times we live in.






His first tweet regarding the matter. Look at the first word he uses, "sorry"! That is unbelievable!!! Then the predictable deflection.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/925005659569041409
Followed by of course..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/925006418989715456
Also a 3rd person has pleaded guilty - George Papadopolous Trump's Ex-Foreign policy adviser.

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> He's getting pounded on Twitter lol. Seriously, you look at all the other president's accounts and then you look at his and it's like going from an adult conversation to a junior high girl fight! It's pure gold as scary as it is to know this is the president of the United States being berated like a child, no pun intended. Never thought I'd see the day when a common citizen is telling the POTUS "you going to jail, bro" LOL! What times we live in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His first tweet regarding the matter. Look at the first word he uses, "sorry"! That is unbelievable!!! Then the predictable deflection.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/925005659569041409
> Followed by of course..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/925006418989715456
> Also a 3rd person has pleaded guilty - George Papadopolous Trump's Ex-Foreign policy adviser.


I agree with you, every decent American is ashamed, and I blame Trump’s vulgar behavior and constant lies, you reap what you sow. He is a disgrace to the office of President and the United States.






Trump’s nasty buddy, Roger Stone has been banned from Twitter, what a shame, a man is known from the company he keeps.

Roger Stone was kicked off Twitter Saturday after a profanity-laced tirade targeting journalists. His rant occurred hours after news organizations began reporting on an impending indictment coming from Robert Mueller's investigation into Russia's election interference. Stone has been seen as one of the major players from the Trump campaign who possibly helped collude with Russia in the 2016 election.

On Saturday Stone used abusive and homophobic language on Twitter to harass CNN reporters, including Don Lemon. *Link*

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> I agree with you, every decent American is ashamed, and I blame Trump’s vulgar behavior and constant lies, you reap what you sow. He is a disgrace to the office of President and the United States.



Here's a question for you and any others feel free to jump in: this is obviously to get Manafort to open up the flood gates of information or face serious prison time. In that case, will he keep his lips sealed in hopes (or under a deal with Trump) that the latter would pardon him? Or does he have no choice but to give up any incriminating information in exchange for a plea deal?


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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> Here's a question for you and any others feel free to jump in: this is obviously to get Manafort to open up the flood gates of information or face serious prison time. In that case, will he keep his lips sealed in hopes (or under a deal with Trump) that the latter would pardon him? Or does he have no choice but to give up any incriminating information in exchange for a plea deal?


Yesterday I was listening to Adam Schiff’, top ranking Democrat on the House intelligence committee investigating Russian-gate, He told ABC News that, “the president cannot pardon people if it’s an effort to obstruct justice, if it’s an effort to prevent Bob Mueller from learning about the Pres’s own conduct”.

I think that makes a lot of sense, I don’t think Trump will be successful to undermine Mueller’s investigation by pardoning his cronies, and if he does try, that will be a clear case of obstruction of justice.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

It's just a nothing burger. Someone Manafort did in 2006.


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Yesterday I was listening to Adam Schiff’, top ranking Democrat on the House intelligence committee investigating Russian-gate,



BTW, a little off-topic but the use of "gate" added to any named scandal gets me every time lol. The reason is we're huuuuuuuuuuuuugeah New England Patriots fans here and you know that the whole "gate" thing started with Spy-Gate lol. I believe it's the first time it's been used since the original Watergate scandal broke out under Nixon's but I can't help think every time someone uses "gate," that it's following in the footsteps of the Pats an Spy Gate lol. 



RabzonKhan said:


> He told ABC News, In an interview that, “the president cannot pardon people if it’s an effort to obstruct justice, if it’s an effort to prevent Bob Mueller from learning about the Pres’s own conduct”. I think that makes a lot of sense, I don’t think Trump will be successful to undermine Mueller’s investigation by pardoning his cronies, and if he does try, that will be a clear case of obstruction of justice.



That makes a lot of sense. Basically he'll either have his lawyers make deal with Trump's lawyers behind closed doors that he keeps his mouth shut, take the sentence and then get pardoned OR... his lawyers might not trust that it would work out that smoothly and besides, he and his family's name would be shamed for ever if he goes that route and so he would have no choice but to take some sort of plea deal and open the floodgates of information on the presidents or his close associates' involvement with campaign and Russia. This is quite the bombshell.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The charge is making a false statement to FBI. Seems like the sentence will be light and there will be a bail. 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/30/politics/paul-manafort-russia-investigation-surrender/index.html


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## F-22Raptor

That is 3 former Trump officials that have now been charged. This is just the tip of the iceberg.



Gomig-21 said:


> He's getting pounded on Twitter lol. Seriously, you look at all the other president's accounts and then you look at his and it's like going from an adult conversation to a junior high girl fight! It's pure gold as scary as it is to know this is the president of the United States being berated like a child, no pun intended. Never thought I'd see the day when a common citizen is telling the POTUS "you going to jail, bro" LOL! What times we live in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His first tweet regarding the matter. Look at the first word he uses, "sorry"! That is unbelievable!!! Then the predictable deflection.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/925005659569041409
> Followed by of course..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/925006418989715456
> Also a 3rd person has pleaded guilty - George Papadopolous Trump's Ex-Foreign policy adviser.



An literally a short time after Trump's "no collusion" tweet, Papadopolous pleads guilty to lying about colluding with Russia. You can't make this stuff up.  What a disgrace.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/30/politics/tax-reform-preview-republican-plan/index.html


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## RabzonKhan

*Trump Campaign Adviser Met With Russian to Discuss ‘Thousands’ of Clinton Emails 
*
The New York Times By MATT APUZZO

WASHINGTON — A professor with close ties to the Russian government told an adviser to Donald J. Trump’s presidential campaign in April 2016 that Moscow had “dirt” on Hillary Clinton in the form of “thousands of emails,” according to court documents unsealed Monday.

*The adviser, George Papadopoulos, has pleaded guilty to lying to the F.B.I. about that conversation. The plea represents the most explicit evidence connecting the Trump campaign to the Russian government’s meddling in last year’s election.*

“They have dirt on her,” the professor told him, according to the documents. “They have thousands of emails.”

*Mr. Papadopoulos was quietly arrested in July and has since been cooperating with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, records show. Mr. Papadopoulos’s conversation in April raises more questions about a meeting in June at Trump Tower, where Mr. Trump’s eldest son and senior advisers met with Russians who were similarly promising damaging information on Mrs. Clinton.*

*Taken together, the meetings show that early in the presidential race, people at the heart of Trump campaign and on its fringes were aware that Russian government officials were trying to help Mr. Trump.*

The professor whom Mr. Papadopoulos met was not identified in court documents. The professor introduced Mr. Papadopoulos to a woman identified as a relative of the Russian president, Vladimir V. Putin, and to someone in the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Mr. Papadopoulos repeatedly tried to arrange a meeting between the Trump campaign and Russian government officials, court records show. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

*What Mueller's Indictments Mean For Trump Now*

*Newsweek* *Greg Price *10/30/2017

President Donald Trump was not charged with any crimes Monday morning, but Monday's flurry of activity worsened a political quagmire that’s rocked and distracted Trump for his first 10 months in office.

Twelve charges were handed down by Special Counsel Robert Mueller against former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort and a business associate, Rick Gates—who joined the Trump campaign when Manafort did back in March 2016. Both were charged with running a money laundering scheme for more than a decade, allegedly funneling millions through offshore accounts, and also face tax evasion and failure to disclose work as foreign agent charges.

*Trump is not named in the indictment, but Mueller and his team may be using the indictment to gain leverage on Manafort and Gates in hopes of flipping them to get information on someone much higher in the campaign or administration.

Manafort and Gates are "the first of many dominoes to fall,” Fox News commentator Andrew Napolitano said on Monday, adding that Mueller was working his way up "the totem pole" to "the big prize...the president of the United States."*

*More critically, former Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos pleaded guilty earlier this month to lying to the FBI about his interactions with a Russian professor who claimed to have “dirt” on Democrat Hillary Clinton, according to The New York Times. That guilty plea was unsealed Monday—and once again links the Trump campaign to collusion with Russia.*

Papadopoulos had previously told the FBI in January that his meeting with the Russian professor was “a nothing,” but his just-unsealed indictment explained Papadopoulos knew the professor sought him out for a meeting due to his role in the campaign. At the April, 2016 meeting, the professor told Papadopoulos about emails that could be used against Clinton, and Papadopoulos later admitted to knowing the professor had deep ties to the Russian government.

"The professor only took interest in defendant Papadopoulos because of his status with the campaign," the indictment read, "and the professor told Papadopoulos about the 'thousands of emails' on or about April 26, 2016, when defendant Papadopoulos had been a foreign policy adviser to the campaign for over a month."

Still, the Papadopoulos plea now means there are at least two instances known of Trump campaign officials directly setting up—or trying to set up—meetings with Russians who promised damaging information on Clinton. The president’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., admitted that he held a June 2016 meeting with a Kremlin-linked Russian lawyer for that exact purpose.

*Papadopoulos’s guilty plea offers evidence of collusion, or attempted collusion, with Russia, even if the president publicly refused to acknowledge it.*

Trump stood by his claim that Mueller’s investigation was a “witch hunt” over the weekend, further asking why there was no probe into Clinton’s emails or that her campaign funded the research that led to the infamous Trump-Russia dossier. Some took the president’s twitter barrage Sunday as a means to distract after it was revealed Friday Mueller would officially file charges Monday morning.

Trump’s response Monday morning was that Manafort’s actions happened years before he ever signed on to the Trump campaign. He also added: “…Also, there is NO COLLUSION!”

Trump did not mention that Manafort worked for him as far back as the 1980s, when Manafort was hired to do some lobbying related to Trump's gaming and real estate interests. Manafort had long been considered a major player Washington D.C. and was known to have worked for a pro-Russian Ukrainian president who was eventually ousted in 2014.

Papadopoulos's lawyer said his client had no comment on Monday. "We will have the opportunity to comment on George's involvement when called upon by the court at a later date," his lawyers said in a statement. "We look forward to telling all of the details of George's story at that time." *LINK*

*
*


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## Gomig-21

So I guess Manafort pleaded not guilty and so did Rick Gates. Bail for Manafort was set at $10 million and Gates at $5 mill. That's a little chunk of loot for sure. I think the "not guilty" plea was very predictable but what is interesting is that they're basically both under house arrest for the duration of the trial, which could be a very long time. Tremendous stuff.

Minutes ago from the head kahuna.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/925333956110757888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/925335577217683456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/925336826717593600
BTW, that 2nd tweet about Popodopoulos is unbelievable! The shameless lying is incomprehensible. "A few knew the low level volunteer who has proven to be a liar?"
Really?





loooool. Un-be-liev-a-buuuuull. 

Check out Obama's record compared to the others. The only one who comes close is Jimmy Carter & Bush Sr. but those two only served 1 term. Obama's perfect record was through 8 years.





















Ahahaaaa I thought this was one of the better ones thrown at him.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/tax-reform-republican-plan/index.html


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## Gomig-21

Someone took down his Twitter account for a little while last night loool. He probably had a panic attack.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/926401530013642765

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## RabzonKhan

*News through the eyes of cartoonists*

*




*

*



*

*



*

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## RabzonKhan

There are reports that Trump’s another crony, Gen Flynn will soon be arrested. During the campaign Trump often used to brag that if he is elected he’ll hire the best, and of course, he’d “drain the swamp”.

Now, there should be no doubt in anyone’s mind that most of the people he hired are lying crooks, hopefully the American voters will drain the swamp in 2020.






*
Why the White House Dreads a Flynn Indictment*

*Unlike the Paul Manafort case, charges against the former national-security adviser would touch the White House itself and could ensnare the president.

The Atlantic
David A. Graham 11/6/2017
*
In the indictments sweepstakes ahead of last week’s first moves by special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia probe, Paul Manafort was the odds-on favorite, but Michael Flynn, the former national-security adviser, was a good bet too.

Monday, and the rest of the week, came and went, bringing indictments for Manafort and his deputy Rick Gates and a guilty plea from George Papadopoulos, but nothing on Flynn. But NBC News reported over the weekend that federal investigators have enough evidence to charge Flynn, and that’s a prospect that should be particularly worrisome to the White House.

*It’s worth noting that Flynn might already have been indicted. Papadopoulos’s guilty plea, for example, came on October 5 but wasn’t revealed until October 30; he was arrested months earlier. There’s speculation that Mueller’s grand jury may have already handed down new indictments that haven’t been unsealed yet.*

Whether a Flynn indictment is sealed or still forthcoming, any charges would make the administration’s situation, already complex, even more headache-inducing. From any rational point of view, the Manafort indictment was bad news for President Trump: No one wants a former campaign chairman to be accused of moving around $75 million, and charged with money laundering and lying to the federal government. But the White House quickly adopted a positive spin, noting that the charges concerned behavior before Manafort joined the Trump campaign.

As I wrote last week, that reflects poorly on Trump as a judge of character and as an employer, but it also allowed the president to distance himself from the investigation and point out that none of the charges against Manafort indicated collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. (The Papadopoulos plea, though somewhat enigmatic, struck much closer to that matter.) As Trump made that point publicly, _The Washington Post _and _Axios _both reported that staffers inside the White House were relieved that Manafort had been charged, rather than Flynn.

The charges that Flynn seems most likely to face are similar to some that were brought against Manafort. Like Manafort, Flynn did not register under the Foreign Agent Registration Act at the time he did work for foreign governments, though like Manafort, he retroactively registered. Like Manafort, who is chargedwith making false statements, Flynn may have lied to the FBI. Flynn was pushed out of his job as national-security adviser on February 14, making him the shortest-tenured holder of that job in history, after the _Post _revealed that he had lied to Vice President Mike Pence and others about conversations he had with 
then-Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. But the paper later reported that Flynn had also lied to the FBI about those conversations.

There are also other counts on which Flynn might be in trouble: His conversations with Kislyak could violate a law that prevents private citizens from conducting foreign policy, though it has never successfully been used to prosecute an American, and many analysts doubt it will be here. There is scrutiny of Flynn’s work for Turkey, for which he retroactively filed under FARA, including an alleged scheme to kick Fethullah Gulen, a cleric and enemy of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan out of the country. Members of Congress have focused on trips he made overseas, including one to celebrate the anniversary of the Kremlin propaganda network RT. As a former top general, Flynn was required to seek permission to be paid for those trips, and he also stands accused of not disclosing them when seeking renewed security clearance. Flynn was also involved in a bizarre Middle Eastern civil-nuclear scheme.

*Whatever the superficial similarities between the Manafort and Flynn situations, though, the key difference is that a Flynn indictment would put the Mueller probe in the White House. Manafort was pushed out of the campaign in August and never worked in the Trump administration (though he is said to have remained in contact with Trump for months). Flynn, however, worked in the White House for almost a month. That means he could have discussed many of the potential areas for charges—from conversations with Kislyak to Gulen to who knows what—with any number of White House staffers on any level. Mueller could call them in for questioning. Even if none of those staffers did anything illegal, and at this point there’s no indication they did, the threat of testimony will create new stress and distraction in a White House already riven with both. They’ll also all need lawyers, and good expensive ones; the Papadopoulos plea-deal is a vivid illustration of the dangers of talking to federal agents. (Trump has offered to contribute $430,000 to legal fees, but the more staffers involved, the faster that will be used up.)*

Moreover, a Flynn investigation would move things much closer to Trump himself. The president distanced himself from Manafort—former Press Secretary Sean Spicer claimed he played a “very limited role” in the campaign—but not from Flynn. Trump allowed Flynn to stay in the administration even after it became clear he had lied to Pence, and also after a conversation between then-Acting Attorney General Sally Yates and White House Counsel Don McGahn. Yates would not divulge the contents of that late-January conversation when she testified to Congress in May, but if Flynn did lie to the FBI, it appears likely that Yates told McGahn then. *Read more*

*
*

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Now, there should be no doubt in anyone’s mind that most of the people he hired are lying crooks, hopefully the American voters will drain the swamp in 2020.



lol, that was good.

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## RabzonKhan

Two very important races, voters in Virginia and New Jersey are set to elect new Governors today. The stakes are quite high, the Democrats desperately need to win both races to build momentum for 2018 elections, on the other hand, it is also a sort of referendum on Trump’s nine-month-old government.


*Virginia Governor - Ed Gillespie (R) vs. Ralph Northam (D)



*
On left, Ralph Northam And Ed Gillespie

In the real clear politics average Ralph Northam (Democrat) is leading Ed Gillespie (Republican) with a margin of 3.3% *Link*



*New Jersey Governor - Kim Guadagno (R) vs. Phil Murphy (D)*




On left, Kim Guadagno And Phil Murphy

In the real clear politics average Phil Murphy (Democrat) is leading Kim Guadagno with a margin of 14.4% *Link*

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Two very important races, voters in Virginia and New Jersey are set to elect new Governors today. The stakes are quite high, the Democrats desperately need to win both races to build momentum for 2018 elections, on the other hand, it is also a sort of referendum on Trump’s nine-month-old government.
> 
> 
> *Virginia Governor - Ed Gillespie (R) vs. Ralph Northam (D)
> View attachment 435568
> *
> On left, Ralph Northam And Ed Gillespie
> 
> In the real clear politics average Ralph Northam (Democrat) is leading Ed Gillespie (Republican) with a margin of 3.3% *Link*
> 
> 
> 
> *New Jersey Governor - Kim Guadagno (R) vs. Phil Murphy (D)*
> View attachment 435569
> 
> On left, Kim Guadagno And Phil Murphy
> 
> In the real clear politics average Phil Murphy (Democrat) is leading Kim Guadagno with a margin of 14.4% *Link*



Looks like it's a sweep for both of those Democrats as of 1/2 hour ago. The interesting part was one of Gillespie campaign people actually came out and told the media this is very much the result of the negative background of the Trump administration weighing on the Republican party.

And Trump has been Tweeting all week trying to support Gillespie but is silent so far tonight.

They claimed he didn't end up visiting the DMZ because of bad weather, but rumors that is was a safety issue.

Speaking of twitter...

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## Gomig-21

It seems thousands of Koreans showed up in the streets this week prior to Trump's visit and speech to the Korean National Assembly in protest of Trump and his aggressive tone with North Korea. Really amazing stuff but at the same time, it makes a lot of sense; why would these people want some crazy lunatic who's arguably been the worst president in US history after nearly a year in office to threaten their lives and their country? These people are speaking out and good for them. Let the people be heard!






*Attendees used playful slogans to express their opinions. “I want President Trump to know we do not want a war,” said a 32-year-old activist to The Washington Post on Saturday.*






*A recent Pew poll found that South Korean attitudes toward Trump are generally negative, with three-quarters of respondents calling Trump “dangerous."*






*“War brings tragedy,” a 49-year-old protester told The Washington Post on Saturday.*






*“We hate Trump,” some of the protesters at the rally sang on Saturday. “We love peace. We love equality.”*

*



*

*Demonstrators say they hope their messages will inspire a more peaceful future.







“We oppose war! Negotiate peace!” protesters chanted on Sunday.







Nearby, a small number of South Koreans rallied in support for Trump. "I'm not very worried about Trump putting South Korea in danger,” a 60-year-old protester told The Washington Post on Saturday.







Protesters on Monday held signs saying: "We denounced the deployment of an advanced US missile defense system, THAAD."







Police in South Korea were on high alert for other demonstrations during Trump's visit to the country.







http://www.businessinsider.com/sout...-a-multi-day-event-called-a-no-trump-no-war-1




*


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Now, one must wonder, what’s wrong with the Republicans, they elected Roy Moore in an Alabama GOP Senate primary election, and guess what, even Trump thought the man was nuts, Trump was supporting his opponent Luther Strange.
> 
> Roy Moore is a dangerous extremist unfit to be a Senator, no surprise, he was supported by Steve Bannon, Sarah Palin and right-wing British scumbag Nigel Farage.
> 
> Poor Trump was so embarrassed after Luther Strange lost the election that he deleted all the tweets endorsing him and was quick to congratulate Roy Moore.
> 
> 
> View attachment 428643
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 428644
> 
> Roy Moore with a tiny gun. lol
> 
> Here is a small sample of Roy Moore beliefs:
> 
> *God's wrath is felt on Earth*
> 
> Moore has suggested that the 11 September 2001 attacks against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were a sign of God's divine anger. (America’s enemies think the same way) "Sounds a little bit like the Pentagon" he remarked after reading a Bible passage about "the great slaughter when the towers will fall".
> 
> *Obama might not be US-born*
> 
> Trump's predecessor was disqualified to be president, Moore claimed as far back as 2008. The so-called "birther" theory, alleging that Obama was born in Kenya, was heavily promoted by Donald Trump until very late in his campaign.
> 
> 
> *'Red and yellows' don't get along*
> 
> He appeared to use pejorative racial terms for Asians and Native Americans *at a rally this month*."We have blacks and whites fighting, reds and yellows fighting, Democrats and Republicans fighting, men and women fighting. What's going to unite us? What's going to bring us back together? A president? A Congress? No. It's going to be God."
> 
> 
> *Islam is a 'false religion'*
> 
> It is also a threat to US laws, Moore claims. Over the summer *he falsely alleged*that Sharia law was already being enforced in parts of the states of Illinois and Indiana, offering no evidence.
> 
> 
> *Homosexuality should be illegal*
> 
> He has *likened it to bestiality*, and called it "abhorrent, immoral, detestable, a crime against nature, and a violation of the laws of nature and of nature's God upon which this nation and our laws are predicated".
> 
> 
> *A Ten Commandments sculpture is worth fighting for*
> 
> He was dismissed from the Alabama Supreme Court after he refused a federal order to remove a massive stone statue of the Ten Commandments from inside his courthouse.
> 
> 
> *The law comes from God*
> 
> "God is the only source of our law, liberty and government," he *said from the debate stage* last week. *Link*



Have you seen the latest on this guy? Innocent until proven guilty but with all the Hollywood sexual harassment that's now found it's way into the US Navy and even politics is pretty damming. Even if he's somehow not guilty, the court of public opinion will destroy any of these people trying to hold government positions. And Steve Bannon is protecting this guy. I think despite all the tweets you posted here of Trump supporting him, he will have no choice but to distance himself from anything associate with this judge.

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## cloud4000

*economist.com*
*America’s global influence has dwindled under Donald Trump*
*Apr. 20th, 2017*
A YEAR ago this week Donald Trump was elected president. Many people predicted that American foreign policy would take a disastrous turn. Mr Trump had suggested that he would scrap trade deals, ditch allies, put a figurative bomb under the rules-based global order and drop literal ones willy-nilly. NATO was “obsolete”, he said; NAFTA was “the worst trade deal maybe ever”; and America was far too nice to foreigners. “In the old days when you won a war, you won a war. You kept the country,” he opined, adding later that he would “bomb the shit out of” Islamic State (IS) and “take the oil”.

So far, Mr Trump’s foreign policy has been less awful than he promised. Granted, he has pulled America out of the Paris accord, making it harder to curb climate change, and abandoned the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a big trade deal. However, he has not retreated pell-mell into isolationism. He has not quit NATO; indeed, some of America’s eastern European allies prefer his tough-talk to the cool detachment of Barack Obama. He has not started any wars. He has stepped up America’s defence of Afghanistan’s beleaguered government, and helped Iraq recapture cities from IS. In the parts of the world to which he pays little attention, such as Africa, an understaffed version of the previous administration’s policy continues on autopilot. As Mr Trump makes a 12-day visit to Asia, it is hard to dismiss him as a man wholly disengaged from the world.

Many people find reassurance in the sober, capable military men who surround him (see article). His chief of staff, his defence secretary and his national security adviser all understand the horrors of war and will stop him from doing anything rash, the argument goes. Optimists even speculate that he might emulate Ronald Reagan, by shaking up the diplomatic establishment, restoring America’s military muscle and projecting such strength abroad that a frightened, overstretched North Korea will crumble like the Soviet Union. Others confidently predict that even if he causes short-term damage to America’s standing in the world, Mr Trump will be voted out in 2020 and things will return to normal.

Reagan, he ain’t

All this is wishful thinking. On security, Mr Trump has avoided some terrible mistakes. He has not started a needless row with China over Taiwan’s ambiguous status, as he once threatened to do. Congress and the election-hacking scandal prevented him from pursuing a grand bargain with Vladimir Putin that might have left Russia’s neighbours at the Kremlin’s mercy. And he has apparently coaxed China to exert a little more pressure on North Korea to stop expanding its nuclear arsenal.

However, he has made some serious errors, too, such as undermining the deal with Iran that curbs its ability to make nuclear bombs. And his instincts are atrocious. He imagines he has nothing to learn from history. He warms to strongmen, such as Mr Putin and Xi Jinping. His love of generals is matched by a disdain for diplomats—he has gutted the State Department, losing busloads of experienced ambassadors. His tweeting is no joke: he undermines and contradicts his officials without warning, and makes reckless threats against Kim Jong Un, whose paranoia needs no stoking. Furthermore, Mr Trump has yet to be tested by a crisis. Level-headed generals may advise him, but he is the commander-in-chief, with a temperament that alarms friend and foe alike.

On trade, he remains wedded to a zero-sum view of the world, in which exporters “win” and importers “lose”. (Are the buyers of Ivanka Trump-branded clothes and handbags, which are made in Asia, losers?) Mr Trump has made clear that he favours bilateral deals over multilateral ones, because that way a big country like America can bully small ones into making concessions. The trouble with this approach is twofold. First, it is deeply unappealing to small countries, which by the way also have protectionist lobbies to overcome. Second, it would reproduce the insanely complicated mishmash of rules that the multilateral trade system was created to simplify and trim. The Trump team probably will not make a big push to disrupt global trade until tax reform has passed through Congress. But when and if that happens, all bets are off—NAFTA is still in grave peril.

Ideas matter

Perhaps the greatest damage that Mr Trump has done is to American soft power. He openly scorns the notion that America should stand up for universal values such as democracy and human rights. Not only does he admire dictators; he explicitly praises thuggishness, such as the mass murder of criminal suspects in the Philippines. He does so not out of diplomatic tact, but apparently out of conviction. This is new. Previous American presidents supported despots for reasons of cold-war realpolitik. (“He’s a bastard, but he’s our bastard,” as Harry Truman is reputed to have said of an anti-communist tyrant in Nicaragua.) Mr Trump’s attitude seems more like: “He’s a bastard. Great!”

This repels America’s liberal allies, in Europe, East Asia and beyond. It emboldens autocrats to behave worse, as in Saudi Arabia this week, where the crown prince’s dramatic political purges met with Mr Trump’s blessing (see article). It makes it easier for China to declare American-style democracy passé, and more tempting for other countries to copy China’s autocratic model (see article).

The idea that things will return to normal after a single Trump term is too sanguine. The world is moving on. Asians are building new trade ties, often centred on China. Europeans are working out how to defend themselves if they cannot rely on Uncle Sam. And American politics are turning inward: both Republicans and Democrats are more protectionist now than they were before Mr Trump’s electoral triumph.

For all its flaws, America has long been the greatest force for good in the world, upholding the liberal order and offering an example of how democracy works. All that is imperilled by a president who believes that strong nations look out only for themselves. By putting “America First”, he makes it weaker, and the world worse off.

https://www.economist.com/news/lead...fact-america-has-turned-inward-hurting-itself

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## Gomig-21

cloud4000 said:


> he has gutted the State Department, losing busloads of experienced ambassadors.



This is just a small part of the chaos that is the current White House.

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## Gomig-21

loooool! This guy is a beauty! 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/929511061954297857

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Gomig-21 said:


> loooool! This guy is a beauty!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/929511061954297857


I think hes retarded... and no i aint joking... 

He says the dumbest shyt.... next on the list is the filipino maniac..

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> Looks like it's a sweep for both of those Democrats as of 1/2 hour ago. The interesting part was one of Gillespie campaign people actually came out and told the media this is very much the result of the negative background of the Trump administration weighing on the Republican party.
> 
> And Trump has been Tweeting all week trying to support Gillespie but is silent so far tonight.
> 
> They claimed he didn't end up visiting the DMZ because of bad weather, but rumors that is was a safety issue.


It was truly an amazing anti-Trump blue wave. The Democrats won big in Virginia, New Jersey, Maine, Georgia, North Carolina, Florida and Washington.

Democrat’s biggest victories were in Virginia, the voters overwhelmingly rejected, Trump, Steve Bannon and Ed Gillespie, the Republican candidate for governor’s divisive rhetoric. The Democrats won the Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Attorney General and flipped at least 15 seats in the Virginia House races.

In New Jersey, the Democrats won Governor and Lt Governor races.

Washington, in my evergreen state, the Democrats now have control of both state legislative bodies and Governor’s mansion, it was a sweet victory, I am loving it. 




> Speaking of twitter...


And talking of Twitter, I just noticed, former Pres Obama has 96.8 million followers and Trump has 42.6 million followers, oops, Pres Obama beats Trump again. 



Gomig-21 said:


> Have you seen the latest on this guy? Innocent until proven guilty but with all the Hollywood sexual harassment that's now found it's way into the US Navy and even politics is pretty damming. Even if he's somehow not guilty, the court of public opinion will destroy any of these people trying to hold government positions. And Steve Bannon is protecting this guy. I think despite all the tweets you posted here of Trump supporting him, he will have no choice but to distance himself from anything associate with this judge.


I think the religious bigot’s days are numbered, a fifth woman has accused him of sexual assault when she was 16-year-old, the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said he believes the women and that Roy Moore should leave the Senate race and the worst part is he’s now trailing his Democrat rival in the deep red Alabama.

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## cloud4000

Gomig-21 said:


> loooool! This guy is a beauty!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/929511061954297857



Thanks to Donald Trump, Kim Jung Un is more popular than ever; and for Kim there's no such thing as bad publicity. Good job, Donald!



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I think hes retarded... and no i aint joking...
> 
> He says the dumbest shyt.... next on the list is the filipino maniac..



Trump is not retarded, the man is a genius. But those who voted for him, on the other hand...

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## RabzonKhan

Pres Trump at the Asian Summit.


Learning funny looking Asian handshake:






Trying to figure out what the heck is going on:






Okay, it looks like he figured it out and looks happy:






Wow, now look at that damn killer smile:

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/14/politics/rand-paul-individual-mandate-tax-bill/index.html


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Wow, now look at that damn killer smile:



Was this some Halloween party?
This photo is so scary on so many levels it's more frightening than funny, but funny nonetheless. Look at that murdering cretin on the far right with that evil wink, ooof!



RabzonKhan said:


> I think the religious bigot’s days are numbered, a fifth woman has accused him of sexual assault when she was 16-year-old, the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said he believes the women and that Roy Moore should leave the Senate race and the worst part is he’s now trailing his Democrat rival in the deep red Alabama.



There hasn't been a Democrat in that seat in over 20 years, and the race is tightening. But what does it tell you about this freaky individual when senator Mitch McConnell has basically said he won't seat the guy in the senate if he wins, right? Calling for him to step down is pretty much denying his seat in the senate. 



cloud4000 said:


> Thanks to Donald Trump, Kim Jung Un is more popular than ever; and for Kim there's no such thing as bad publicity. Good job, Donald!



President Xi Jinping is on his way to NK to speak to Kim Jung Un, probably at the behest of the Donald. We'll see what comes out of that. There's a man who carries himself like a president of a superpower, Xi Jinping. That man is respected across the world.

BTW, 4 tweets prior to 6am EST, but the best one is this one. The president of the USA forced to watch CNN? lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/930748627642998784

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> Was this some Halloween party?
> This photo is so scary on so many levels it's more frightening than funny, but funny nonetheless. Look at that murdering cretin on the far right with that evil wink, ooof!


Yeah, that guy makes me sick, and did you notice how Donald Trump was enjoying his company, absolutely disgusting.




> There hasn't been a Democrat in that seat in over 20 years, and the race is tightening. But what does it tell you about this freaky individual when senator Mitch McConnell has basically said he won't seat the guy in the senate if he wins, right? Calling for him to step down is pretty much denying his seat in the senate.


Well if the scumbag is elected the Senate can remove him with the two third majority, according to “article 1, section 5, of the United States Constitution provides that each House of Congress may determine the rules of its proceeding, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and with the concurrence of two-third, expel a member.”

There is still a possibility that he can win, I was looking at the real clear politics average poll, it shows he is three point ahead of his Democratic rival. Now, the million-dollar question is, what’s wrong with the Republican voters?

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Yeah, that guy makes me sick, and did you notice how Donald Trump was enjoying his company, absolutely disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> Well if the scumbag is elected the Senate can remove him with the two third majority, according to “article 1, section 5, of the United States Constitution provides that each House of Congress may determine the rules of its proceeding, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and with the concurrence of two-third, expel a member.”
> 
> There is still a possibility that he can win, I was looking at the real clear politics average poll, it shows he is three point ahead of his Democratic rival. Now, the million-dollar question is, what’s wrong with the Republican voters?
> 
> View attachment 437161



And the president's silence and refusing to answer questions or even weigh in on the matter is quite the reflection of him since we all know he's not saying anything because of his own past transgressions regarding the treatment of women and the media hysteria that would ensue. And this case with Roy Moore is beyond inappropriate behavior, it's basically child abuse. I'm hearing some radio personality numbnuts coming out and questioning these women's credibility and why they took so long to come out and why now etc. which I found absurd beyond belief. These women don't have an agenda! That's the most ridiculous thing ever and shame on those who even go down that route. These poor victims who suffer these kinds of abuses have a very difficult time coming out and talking about what happened to them that the last thing they'd do is attempt to shame themselves into the spotlight for anything other than doing the right thing. And a lot of times when these things happen, they're afraid to come out because of many reasons including guess what, they're children!!!

I think it'll be quite damning to all the registered voters in Alabama if this guy actually gets any votes, never mind if they actually vote him in now. 

What about Ivanca coming out and saying what she said about predators who abuse children and/or teenagers? She should up the ante and go tell her father that he needs to speak up and do the right thing even if he has to take the heat for his own past.
_
“There’s a special place in hell for people who prey on children,” Trump told the Associated Press Wednesday in an interview. “I’ve yet to see a valid explanation and I have no reason to doubt the victims’ accounts.”

http://fortune.com/2017/11/15/ivanka-trump-roy-moore-response/_

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-republicans-pass-long-awaited-tax-reform-bill/story?id=51194812


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## Gomig-21

Well, I guess Al Franken might as well rent a room next to Roy Moore and Harvey Wientsein in their new senior citizen home for the rehabilitation of molesters and gropers. And what a horrible apology he gave today when he had no way out of it after Leeann Tweeden decided to tell her story on her Twitter account and now that the most incriminating photo is all over the place. Makes you wonder if he would've denied it had there not been a photo circulating the internet, given that lousy apology.

https://twitter.com/LeeannTweeden?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/16/franken-apologizes-after-woman-alleges-he-groped-her-244976


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## Gomig-21

Oop, he did it! And he's getting hammered for it haha.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/931357870024687616

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## RabzonKhan

What goes around, comes around. During the presidential election Trump made fun of Marco Rubio for drinking water during a televised speech, Trump, had to drink twice during his short speech. 

Notice, Trump used both of his hands to drink from a tiny water bottle, once again, it proves, he has tiny hands. 







Here’s some more fun, from Huffington Post:

On Wednesday, the tables were turned when Trump himself had an awkward moment involving an ill-timed water break during a televised speech ― and it quickly made waves on social media as well as late-night TV.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/930973713389850624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/930945568192397312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/930905613718126593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/930919538744545280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/930902480623321088


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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> And the president's silence and refusing to answer questions or even weigh in on the matter is quite the reflection of him since we all know he's not saying anything because of his own past transgressions regarding the treatment of women and the media hysteria that would ensue.


You’re absolutely right, his silence, speaks volume about his character. But just imagine, if Roy Moore’s Democrat opponent, Doug Jones faced similar allegations, would Trump remained silent, I very much doubt it. Since, now we know, he was quick to criticize Sen Al Franken. Hypocrite!




> And this case with Roy Moore is beyond inappropriate behavior, it's basically child abuse. I'm hearing some radio personality numbnuts coming out and questioning these women's credibility and why they took so long to come out and why now etc. which I found absurd beyond belief. These women don't have an agenda! That's the most ridiculous thing ever and shame on those who even go down that route. These poor victims who suffer these kinds of abuses have a very difficult time coming out and talking about what happened to them that the last thing they'd do is attempt to shame themselves into the spotlight for anything other than doing the right thing. And a lot of times when these things happen, they're afraid to come out because of many reasons including guess what, they're children!!!
> 
> I think it'll be quite damning to all the registered voters in Alabama if this guy actually gets any votes, never mind if they actually vote him in now.
> 
> What about Ivanca coming out and saying what she said about predators who abuse children and/or teenagers? She should up the ante and go tell her father that he needs to speak up and do the right thing even if he has to take the heat for his own past.
> _
> “There’s a special place in hell for people who prey on children,” Trump told the Associated Press Wednesday in an interview. “I’ve yet to see a valid explanation and I have no reason to doubt the victims’ accounts.”
> 
> http://fortune.com/2017/11/15/ivanka-trump-roy-moore-response/_


You hit the nail on the head, when you said; “they're afraid to come out because of many reasons including guess what, they're children!!!”.

But, I’m surprised there are so many shameful people who still say that they’re going to vote for him, including Alabama Republican Gov Kay Ivey "I believe in the Republican Party, what we stand for, and most important, we need to have a Republican in the United States Senate to vote on things like the Supreme Court justices, other appointments the Senate has to confirm and make major decisions,” Ivey said at a Thanksgiving turkey pardon event, according to AL.com. “So that's what I plan to do, vote for Republican nominee Roy Moore." *Link*

But here’s the Bombshell, White House counsellor Kellyanne Conway wants Republican to vote for the child molester. During an appearance on Fox News, she said if the Republicans lose the Alabama Senate seat, it will be difficult for Pres Trump to get his agenda passed, and then the shameless woman criticized Democrat Doug Jones; “he will be a vote against tax cuts, he is weak on crime, weak on borders” blah blah. And when one of the anchors asked her does that means she wants Republicans to vote for Roy Moore? She replied: “I’m telling you that we want the votes in the Senate to get this tax bill through.”

I think that says it all, Trump’s White House is supporting a child molester!








Breaking News, oh my goodness, I can’t damn believe, Trump is supporting a child molester Roy Moore. Trump is a disgusting human being, whatever little respect I had for him is gone.






"I can tell you one thing for sure, we don't need a liberal person in there, a Democrat," the president told reporters shortly before departing the White House to head to his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida for Thanksgiving.

"I've looked at his record — it's terrible on crime, it's terrible on the border, it's terrible on the military," Trump said of Moore's Democratic opponent, former U.S. Attorney Doug Jones.

When asked about the allegations that Moore pursued multiple teenage girls while he was in his 30s and an assistant district attorney in Alabama, Trump responded that Moore "totally denies it" and pointed out that the allegations are from roughly 40 years ago.

Trump also said he will announce next week whether he will campaign for Moore, who has been abandoned by the National Republican Senatorial Committee and the Republican National Committee in the wake of the accusations. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., and other national Republicans have called on Moore to step aside, but the former state Supreme Court chief justice has refused. *Link*

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> But here’s the Bombshell, White House counsellor Kellyanne Conway wants Republican to vote for the child molester.



I saw that, bro. I'll tell you, Kellyanne Conway is the last person one should even think of getting any type of advice from. That whole "alternative facts" comment and so much more dillweeded comments that came out of her mouth just show how insane of a freak she is. Pffft, brush her aside is the best thing to do lol. Probably the WORST mouthpiece of any political figure we've ever seen. She gives the word "muzzle" a whole new meaning.



RabzonKhan said:


> Breaking News, oh my goodness, I can’t damn believe, Trump is supporting a child molester Roy Moore. Trump is a disgusting human being, whatever little respect I had for him is gone.



It's just incredible. It's so ridiculously obvious also how he's out on a personal vendetta to undo everything that has an Obama signature on it. Frankly, it's a disturbing trend because he's doing these things based on solely that and partisanship. Let's take one example out of the zillions out there - the Ivory ban on elephant tusks. Is he really thinking about the conservation and the well-being of those magnificent, gentle giant creatures....or does he want his kids (and other wealthy friends) to be able to bring back the elephant tails and whatever hunting trophies they accumulate from Zimbabwe? This is the character of this individual.






Then when junior got clobbered on social media about this, he claimed it wasn't wasteful hunting and the villagers were happy to get the meat that they don't get to eat very often....yeah, riiiiiiight!

And you know that if Obama, or either of the Bushes, or Clinton, or Reagan or ANY sane person would've condemned Roy Moore the minute the first allegation came out and never played party lines for the sake of gaining a pawn who will suck up to them and vote for any bill they tries to pass. These people have a sense of dignity and righteousness, something that eludes this guy because of his character, or lack of. Not surprising.

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## RabzonKhan

Some very interesting development on Russia-gate investigation. General Flynn’s lawyers have said that they no longer will share information with Trump’s lawyers. Looks like either Flynn is already cooperating with Mueller or is moving in that direction. 


*Flynn’s legal team cuts ties to Trump lawyers*

by KRISTEN WELKER, KELLY O'DONNELL and PHIL HELSEL NOV 24 2017

In a move that could signal an impending shift in the special counsel investigation being conducted by Robert Mueller, former national security adviser Michael Flynn’s legal team has formally cut ties with lawyers around President Donald Trump and his family.

Citing four people involved in the case, The New York Times first reported the development Thursday. Mueller is the special counsel leading a probe into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.

Legal experts say defense teams will often share information and materials they have in common while advocating for separate clients until no longer willing or able under the law to do so. *Read more*



Gomig-21 said:


> I saw that, bro. I'll tell you, Kellyanne Conway is the last person one should even think of getting any type of advice from. That whole "alternative facts" comment and so much more dillweeded comments that came out of her mouth just show how insane of a freak she is. Pffft, brush her aside is the best thing to do lol. Probably the WORST mouthpiece of any political figure we've ever seen. She gives the word "muzzle" a whole new meaning.
> 
> 
> 
> It's just incredible. It's so ridiculously obvious also how he's out on a personal vendetta to undo everything that has an Obama signature on it. Frankly, it's a disturbing trend because he's doing these things based on solely that and partisanship. Let's take one example out of the zillions out there - the Ivory ban on elephant tusks. Is he really thinking about the conservation and the well-being of those magnificent, gentle giant creatures....or does he want his kids (and other wealthy friends) to be able to bring back the elephant tails and whatever hunting trophies they accumulate from Zimbabwe? This is the character of this individual.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then when junior got clobbered on social media about this, he claimed it wasn't wasteful hunting and the villagers were happy to get the meat that they don't get to eat very often....yeah, riiiiiiight!
> 
> And you know that if Obama, or either of the Bushes, or Clinton, or Reagan or ANY sane person would've condemned Roy Moore the minute the first allegation came out and never played party lines for the sake of gaining a pawn who will suck up to them and vote for any bill they tries to pass. These people have a sense of dignity and righteousness, something that eludes this guy because of his character, or lack of. Not surprising.


I don’t waste my time on her, she lost my respect when she said in an interview that US citizens should consider all appliances compromised, *even their microwaves*, she was reacting to the false news that CIA was spying on Trump, I thought that was highly paranoid. And then of course the alternative facts, bs. But when I read her comments on Roy Moore I instantly knew that she can’t say all this without the blessing of the White House, and as we saw, Trump used the same words to defend that pedophile/child molester.

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## RabzonKhan

Disgusting, once again, right-wing supporters of child-molester Republican Roy Moore have failed in their attempt to undermine Washington Post credibility. The shameless right-wing nuts have been trying all kinds of dirty tricks, since the paper published interviews of Roy Moore’s victims, including a so-called fake robocall from Bernie Bernstein falsely claiming to be a reporter from the Washington Post. Just when you thought this couldn’t get any weirder, yet another well-known right-wing nut, James O Keefe who runs Project Veritas with the sole aim of by hook or crook undermining liberal media sent a woman to a Washington Post reporter claiming that Roy Moore impregnated her when she was 15, and then drove her to another state to terminate the pregnancy.

But when Washington Post began to investigate her story they quickly discovered that she was a fake. It just proves that Washington Post industriously investigates and seek facts.


*James O'Keefe on the defensive after failed anti-Post plot*
by Brian Stelter *CNN* 11/28/2017

*James O'Keefe's anti-media organization Project Veritas schemed to hurt The Washington Post and help Roy Moore.*

But the Post turned the tables and exposed the plot. Now O'Keefe is the one on the defensive.

It's an extraordinary and sordid story that begins with a fake sexual assault allegation. The apparent goal was to discredit the real women who previously spoke with the Post about alleged sexual misconduct by Moore, the Republican nominee for Senate in Alabama.

O'Keefe, a highly controversial activist, had one of his colleagues reach out to the Post with a new, made-up account of Moore's behavior. The woman claimed that Moore had slept with her and even urged her to get an abortion.

The hope within Project Veritas appears to have been that the Post would reveal anti-Moore bias in the initial conversations and perhaps eventually publish the lie.

But the paper didn't bite. Instead, as it would with anyone who came forward with an explosive allegation, it looked into the new accuser's credibility and background -- and found a trail of breadcrumbs that led back to Project Veritas.

The Post described what happened, in exquisite detail, on Monday night. The account has been the most-read story on WashingtonPost.com for the past eighteen hours. *Read more*

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## Gomig-21

That lower cartoon is brutal, Rabzon lol.

Another big one bites the dust; Matt Lauer fired from NBC for alleged sexual misconduct. Man, are they dropping like flies or what?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/935844881825763328

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## Gomig-21

CNN just breaking news that Michael Flynn has been officially charges by Robert Mueller for making false statements and lying to the FBI about the meeting with the Russians.

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> CNN just breaking news that Michael Flynn has been officially charges by Robert Mueller for making false statements and lying to the FBI about the meeting with the Russians.


I’m having a ball, lock him up, lock him up, lock him up

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## Solomon2

Gomig-21 said:


> CNN just breaking news that Michael Flynn has been officially charges by Robert Mueller for making false statements and lying to the FBI about the meeting with the Russians.


It's a very "small-potatoes" issue and involves little if any jail time: link. 

It's been clear to me for quite some time - since Flynn wrote about Turkey relations the week after the election without making it clear that he was compensated by the Turkish gov't for it - that Flynn has some sort of problem when it comes to disclosure. It might be a personality quirk or failing memory but no one has yet found it points to some sort of conspiracy - which is surely what the special prosecutor has been digging for.


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## RabzonKhan

Solomon2 said:


> It's a very "small-potatoes" issue and involves little if any jail time: link.
> 
> It's been clear to me for quite some time - since Flynn wrote about Turkey relations the week after the election without making it clear that he was compensated by the Turkish gov't for it - that Flynn has some sort of problem when it comes to disclosure. It might be a personality quirk or failing memory but no one has yet found it points to some sort of conspiracy - which is surely what the special prosecutor has been digging for.


You can try as hard as you want, but this isn’t “a very small potatoes issue”. The point is, if he cooperates with Mueller’s investigation, most probably there will be little jail time, but otherwise he can end up in jail for five years, and you think five years is “little” time for US General, really?

The fact is we don’t know for certain what kind of corporation Flynn is providing to Mueller, but judging from the documents that were submitted in the court it is quite clear that Flynn’s plea is just the beginning and that there is more to come.

According to the Washington Post, Flynn’s court documents suggest that Flynn acted with the knowledge and advice of senior Trump transition officials, which quite frankly exposes Trump and his supporter’s narrative that Flynn acted alone. Most probably that senior official is Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner.


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## Gomig-21

Solomon2 said:


> It's a very "small-potatoes" issue and involves little if any jail time: link.
> 
> It's been clear to me for quite some time - since Flynn wrote about Turkey relations the week after the election without making it clear that he was compensated by the Turkish gov't for it - that Flynn has some sort of problem when it comes to disclosure. It might be a personality quirk or failing memory but no one has yet found it points to some sort of conspiracy - which is surely what the special prosecutor has been digging for.



I think it will be very difficult to convince a grand jury, or even a Mueller-led investigation team that a US lieutenant army general who was also appointed to one of the highest governmental position as the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency of the United States and then a National Security Adviser to the current administration has some sort of "forgetful" problem when it comes to disclosing specific information that is essential to determine whether someone can be appointed to an important position in the White House that requires the highest form of security clearance. I think it's very hard for anyone to believe that. That forgetfulness reeks of selective amnesia. 

Also, the fact that he took the guilty plea on a charge like lying to the FBI suggests that his lawyers advised him that the chances of beating that charge are very slim and non-existent and that he would be much better served admitting guilt so that his sentence is commuted to a lesser one than the maximum, which 5 years in prison is no joke. 

What this looks more like is not necessarily the charge to Flynn but obviously using that to get to the closer nitty gritty, most probably Jared Kuchner's involvement. 

The article you linked also tries to make light of these charges by stating how Manafort's charges are ones that don't even coincide with the time of the Trump campaign. But that's also another way of putting the squeezes on him to give up other people.

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## RabzonKhan

Trump on Monday called child molester Roy Moore and endorsed his campaign.

And the shameless Republican party has resumed funding the child molester.

In the latest RCP average poll (11/20 – 12/2) child molester Republican Roy Moore is leading Democratic Doug Jones by 2.6 points.






This damn church should not receive tax exemptions since they have now endorsed the child molester candidate, freaking scums.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

*Final GOP tax bill will likely scrap Obamacare individual mandate, top House tax writer Brady says*

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/05/kev...l-to-repeal-obamacare-individual-mandate.html


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## Gomig-21

undertakerwwefan said:


> *Final GOP tax bill will likely scrap Obamacare individual mandate, top House tax writer Brady says*
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/05/kev...l-to-repeal-obamacare-individual-mandate.html



This is one of the very few things in the bill that I actually support. I think Obama botched this one when he mandated everyone must have insurance or they get penalized on their tax returns. That just doesn't sit right because it hurts the millions who can't afford to buy insurance and they do exist, in the millions. So then on top of not being able to afford health insurance, they get fined for it on their low incomes!? Where was the logic in that? Then they either have to go out and get a plan with a huge deductible that is practically useless just to keep the cost down. Other than that, this bill has a lot of major issues. Aside from the fact that there are no guarantees it will pay for itself or any provisions to insure that, the major beneficiaries are of course, the corporations who are getting the biggest cuts. The middle class is still getting shanked.

Thinking the corporate taxes will bring jobs back from overseas because these companies will now pay less taxes so they can afford to operate in the US is simply flawed thinking or more like disingenuous than anything else. Without a mandate to force these huge companies to invest those extra earning into bringing those jobs back to the US, they'll only pocket the additional revenues or invest them in stocks or simply make more money lol. Where's the guarantee that they will recycle the money? It's so ridiculously conning that no wonder not a single democrat is voting for this thing. And of course they cannot mandate how these companies can spend that extra revenue since that goes completely against democratic and capitalistic values. So essentially these huge corporations will earn more, get away with paying less taxes, and certainly won't guarantee any rise in jobs here in the US or anything of the sort. In essence, we've been scammed.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

*Conyers' exit after decades could open political floodgates*

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wire...ed-conyers-alleges-sexual-harassment-51613701

* John Conyers Son and Heir Apparent Arrested for Felony Domestic Violence *

*http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/06/john-conyers-son-arrested-felony-domestic-violence/*


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## RabzonKhan

Democrat Sen Al Franken is resigning, I think he made the right decision, now, while a Democrat senator is resigning, Republican party, the party of “Church and family values” is supporting a child molester for Senate seat, what a disgrace.
*
Al Franken announces intention to resign from Senate over sexual misconduct allegations
*
Christopher Wilson Yahoo News•December 7, 2017

Sen. Al Franken, D-Minn., on Thursday announced his plans to resign following a series of allegations from women accusing him of sexual harassment and misconduct.

Franken said that while he believes an ethics committee investigation would find him innocent, he didn’t feel he could continue to serve and would be stepping down in the coming weeks.

“Some of the allegations against me are simply not true,” said Franken during his address, “others I remember very differently.”

He also took a shot at Republicans on his way out the door.

“There is some irony that I am leaving while a man who bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office, and a man who preyed on young girls runs for Senate with the full support of his party,” said Franken, referencing President Trump and Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore. Read more








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/938160754490052609Very well said, Sir. Country should always be above party. Republican Sen. Jeff Flake of Arizona is supporting Democrat candidate Doug Jones for Alabama Senate seat.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/937799838082781186Former Republican presidential candidate, Mitt Romney is also supporting Democrat Doug Jones.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RabzonKhan said:


> Democrat Sen Al Franken is resigning, I think he made the right decision, now, while a Democrat senator is resigning, Republican party, the party of “Church and family values” is supporting a child molester for Senate seat, what a disgrace.
> *
> Al Franken announces intention to resign from Senate over sexual misconduct allegations
> *
> Christopher Wilson Yahoo News•December 7, 2017
> 
> Sen. Al Franken, D-Minn., on Thursday announced his plans to resign following a series of allegations from women accusing him of sexual harassment and misconduct.
> 
> Franken said that while he believes an ethics committee investigation would find him innocent, he didn’t feel he could continue to serve and would be stepping down in the coming weeks.
> 
> “Some of the allegations against me are simply not true,” said Franken during his address, “others I remember very differently.”
> 
> He also took a shot at Republicans on his way out the door.
> 
> “There is some irony that I am leaving while a man who bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office, and a man who preyed on young girls runs for Senate with the full support of his party,” said Franken, referencing President Trump and Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore. Read more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/938160754490052609Very well said, Sir. Country should always be above party. Republican Sen. Jeff Flake of Arizona is supporting Democrat candidate Doug Jones for Alabama Senate seat.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/937799838082781186Former Republican presidential candidate, Mitt Romney is also supporting Democrat Doug Jones.



There is no proof Roy Moore molested anyone. In the west, the law is very clear, innocent unless proven guilty.


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## Gomig-21

undertakerwwefan said:


> There is no proof Roy Moore molested anyone. In the west, the law is very clear, innocent unless proven guilty.



You're 100% correct, innocent until proven guilty. But it is hard not to believe at least 5 women who have come forward and accused this creep. While there have been some cases of women making false accusations, there are also terrible consequences to doing that and the percentage are much higher that they're telling the truth. It doesn't make much sense that these women would come out and make these claims under false pretenses, especially when most of them were teenagers at the time and are elder women now. 

It also doesn't mean he's innocent by any stretch of the imagination. Look what Anita Hill went through back in 1990, and she took a beating for standing her ground in front of the world, and where is Clarence Thomas today? He's still a supreme court justice!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Gomig-21 said:


> You're 100% correct, innocent until proven guilty. But it is hard not to believe at least 5 women who have come forward and accused this creep. While there have been some cases of women making false accusations, there are also terrible consequences to doing that and the percentage are much higher that they're telling the truth. It doesn't make much sense that these women would come out and make these claims under false pretenses, especially when most of them were teenagers at the time and are elder women now.
> 
> It also doesn't mean he's innocent by any stretch of the imagination. Look what Anita Hill went through back in 1990, and she took a beating for standing her ground in front of the world, and where is Clarence Thomas today? He's still a supreme court justice!



They never cared when Roy Moore run for chief justice of Alabama supreme court. Why would they care now? Oh, because Roy Moore is running for US Senate which would tilt power away from Democrats.


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## katsung47

GOP Senators Believe Roy Moore's Accusers But Not Donald Trump's

Jennifer Bendery,HuffPost• November 14, 2017

Moore’s scandal has put his party in an incredibly uncomfortable predicament: the more Republicans say the allegations by five women against Moore are proof that he doesn’t belong in the Senate, the more hypocritical they look for ignoring the 16 women who have accused Trump of sexual assault and helping him become president.

The White House position on the president’s accusers is that they are all liars. Trump denied all of the allegations again last month, calling them “fake news” and “made-up stuff.”

So why do Republicans believe Moore’s accusers but not Trump’s? HuffPost spent Tuesday asking GOP senators why the situations are different. Few could offer a convincing argument, instead opting to shrug their shoulders, pivot or abruptly walk away.


news/senators-believe-roy-moore-apos-232401331.html

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## Gomig-21

undertakerwwefan said:


> They never cared when Roy Moore run for chief justice of Alabama supreme court. Why would they care now? Oh, because Roy Moore is running for US Senate which would tilt power away from Democrats.



They care now because ever since Harvey Weinstein, many women have been empowered to come out of their shells and aren't afraid or embarrassed or shamed to talk about a horrible time of abuse in their lives. It's called "strength in numbers." Not a difficult thing to understand. Look at all the celebrities and politiians dropping like flies and women coming out of the woodwork left and right. That's why. 

Should be an interesting special senate election tonight in Alabama. Let's hope it goes the right way.

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## F-22Raptor

This Alabama race is insane right now. It's a dead heat.


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## KAL-EL

Fox News just called it for Doug Jones. Wow..


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## F-22Raptor

Trump and Moore are about to have egg on their faces.

CNN has just called Jones.

This is pretty remarkable considering how deeply red Alabama is. Huge warning sign for the Republicans heading into next years midterms.

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## KAL-EL

F-22Raptor said:


> Trump and Moore are about to have egg on their faces.



Don't forget about good ole Steve Bannon who up till now has basically become drunk on power and ego.

He's fashioned himself a king maker

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## F-22Raptor

KAL-EL said:


> Don't forget about good ole Steve Bannon who up till now has basically become drunk on power and ego.



I'd be worried if I was a Republican up for reelection in next years midterms.

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## KAL-EL

F-22Raptor said:


> I'd be worried if I was a Republican up for reelection in next years midterms.



Yep... Alabama as I'm sure you already know is one of the deepest of deep red states in the country.

I think it's been around 25 years (or so?) since a republican won down there.

Wouldn't be at all surprised if moore and/or Trump came out and screamed

it's rigged! It's rigged!!

Fake news!! Fake news!!

Brainwashing! Brainwashing!

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## F-22Raptor

Lot of speculation that Jones win could derail tax reform.

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## Gomig-21

Awesome! Jones had the lead at the start, when it was around 5% then when it when got up to 20% it was Moore ahead and it went up by 29K+ votes and something like 7 points ahead, I thought it was over then Jones made a heck of a comeback.

I hope he derails the tax reform bill, nothing attractive about that as far as I'm concerned, as a small business owner, there's only 1 tiny item besides the health care mandate, other than that, nada.

Just in from the head chief.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/940795587733151744

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## KAL-EL

Gomig-21 said:


> Awesome! Jones had the lead at the start, when it was around 5% then when it when got up to 20% it was Moore ahead and it went up by 29K+ votes and something like 7 points ahead, I thought it was over then Jones made a heck of a comeback.
> 
> I hope he derails the tax reform bill, nothing attractive about that as far as I'm concerned, as a small business owner, there's only 1 tiny item besides the health care mandate, other than that, nada.
> 
> Just in from the head chief.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/940795587733151744



I must say, I'm almost shocked that Trump didn't go on a Twitter temper tantrum screaming things like...

Fake news!!!

Rigged election!!

None of its real !!

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## Gomig-21

KAL-EL said:


> I must say, I'm almost shocked that Trump didn't go on a Twitter temper tantrum screaming things like...
> 
> Fake news!!!
> 
> Rigged election!!
> 
> None of its real !!









What's incredible is Moore hasn't even conceded the loss yet. He never called Jones to congratulate him because his campaign thinks that since the difference is so close and they'll still be counting votes for the next few weeks, they think it's possible it could change! Now they're gonna try to push this tax bill through legislation before Jones gets sworn-in in January. Crazy.

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## AUz

Hopefully that disgusting tax reform bill dies out without passing.

Republicans have betrayed the common man and worked for their rich donor class, as always.

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## cloud4000

KAL-EL said:


> I must say, I'm almost shocked that Trump didn't go on a Twitter temper tantrum screaming things like...
> 
> Fake news!!!
> 
> Rigged election!!
> 
> None of its real !!



Remember Trump didn't Moore in the primary, but his opponent. Trump only backed Moore because he needed to keep a GOP majority in the Senate, not because he agreed or liked the key. In a sense, Trump feels vindicated. Strange at this may sound. 



Gomig-21 said:


> I hope he derails the tax reform bill, nothing attractive about that as far as I'm concerned, as a small business owner, there's only 1 tiny item besides the health care mandate, other than that, nada.



I'm not against tax cuts. I think more money left in people's pockets the better. My issue is the increase in deficits that this tax cut will cause. It's always the same problem year-after-year: too much spending. It seems neither party is interested in cutting spending, but only increasing or decreasing taxes.

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## RabzonKhan

What a great victory! I am loving it! 

Against all odds, for the first time after almost 25 years, a Democrat would represent Alabama in the U.S. Senate.

After the victories in Virginia and New Jersey the Democratic base is energized, get ready Republicans the blue wave could be approaching in the 2018 midterm elections.










Doug Jones’s victory speech, in three minutes

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## katsung47

Trump turns US into an totalitarian country
Quote, 
TRUMP WHITE HOUSE WEIGHING PLANS FOR PRIVATE SPIES TO COUNTER “DEEP STATE” ENEMIES
Matthew Cole, Jeremy Scahill
December 4 2017,

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION is considering a set of proposals developed by Blackwater founder Erik Prince and a retired CIA officer — with assistance from Oliver North, a key figure in the Iran-Contra scandal — to provide CIA Director Mike Pompeo and the White House with a global, private spy network that would circumvent official U.S. intelligence agencies, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials and others familiar with the proposals. The sources say the plans have been pitched to the White House as a means of countering “deep state” enemies in the intelligence community seeking to undermine Donald Trump’s presidency.

The creation of such a program raises the possibility that the effort would be used to create an intelligence apparatus to justify the Trump administration’s political agenda.

“Pompeo can’t trust the CIA bureaucracy, so we need to create this thing that reports just directly to him,” said a former senior U.S. intelligence official with firsthand knowledge of the proposals, in describing White House discussions. “It is a direct-action arm, totally off the books,” this person said, meaning the intelligence collected would not be shared with the rest of the CIA or the larger intelligence community. “The whole point is this is supposed to report to the president and Pompeo directly.”



The proposals would utilize an army of spies with no official cover in several countries deemed “denied areas” for current American intelligence personnel, including North Korea and Iran. The White House has also considered creating a new global rendition unit meant to capture terrorist suspects around the world, as well as a propaganda campaign in the Middle East and Europe to combat Islamic extremism and Iran.

“I can find no evidence that this ever came to the attention of anyone at the NSC or [White House] at all,” wrote Michael N. Anton, a spokesperson for the National Security Council, in an email. “The White House does not and would not support such a proposal.” But a current U.S. intelligence official appeared to contradict that assertion, stating that the various proposals were first pitched at the White House before being delivered to the CIA. The Intercept reached out to several senior officials that sources said had been briefed on the plans by Prince, including Vice President Mike Pence. His spokesperson wrote there was “no record of [Prince] ever having met with or briefed the VP.” North did not respond to a request for comment.

According to two former senior intelligence officials, Pompeo has embraced the plan and lobbied the White House to approve the contract. Asked for comment, a CIA spokesperson said, “You have been provided wildly inaccurate information by people peddling an agenda.”


/2017/12/04/trump-white-house-weighing-plans-for-private-spies-to-counter-deep-state-enemies/

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## RabzonKhan

Trump, Steve Bannon, Roy Moore and GOP, the big losers.

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## RabzonKhan

It seems the American voters are fed up with Trump's lies and bogus rhetoric. Democrats have the biggest lead in congressional preference over the Republican since 2008, in 2008 they won the White House and seats in the Senate and House.

According to the NBC/WSJ poll, 50% preferred Democrats and 39% Republican for next year’s midterms.

The poll also found that 59% of Democratic voters are showing the highest level of interest in the coming midterms, compared with 49% of Republicans. *Link*








cloud4000 said:


> Remember Trump didn't Moore in the primary, but his opponent. Trump only backed Moore because he needed to keep a GOP majority in the Senate, not because he agreed or liked the key. In a sense, Trump feels vindicated. Strange at this may sound.


No, Trump is not vindicated, he is just making lame excuses for backing another loser. It should be a wake-up call for Trump and his supporters, after winning Alabama by 28 points in 2016 presidential elections, in a way, he has lost twice there, by supporting two losers.



> I'm not against tax cuts. I think more money left in people's pockets the better. My issue is the increase in deficits that this tax cut will cause. It's always the same problem year-after-year: too much spending. It seems neither party is interested in cutting spending, but only increasing or decreasing taxes.


I agree.

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## Gomig-21

cloud4000 said:


> I'm not against tax cuts. I think more money left in people's pockets the better. My issue is the increase in deficits that this tax cut will cause. It's always the same problem year-after-year: too much spending. It seems neither party is interested in cutting spending, but only increasing or decreasing taxes.



If you really simplify it, most of the tax cuts go to the very wealthy, it's that simple. That is the #1 problem with this bill. The business rate is the primary concern for the orange-headed baboon, not the average middle-class voter and that tells a lot. Then you mentioned the deficit; think of who is gong to be stuck with a $4 trillion rise in the current deficit as a result of this bill? Our kids and grand-kids, that's who. Yes, it's going to be $4 trillion and not $1.3 trillion that they're trying to sell us. The great Leon Panetta (former Secretary of Defense, CIA director, White House Chief of Staff and director of Management and Budget so if anyone knows what they're talking about it's this guy,) he had a very detailed description of how it will get to that number and it made a ton of sense. 

And probably the worst part is the blatant con from the baboon and his fearful pawns, that this will bring back jobs to the US! Does this goofball really think we are that stupid!? This is the genius that people were touting about?

You saw his cutting of all the federal regulations and who do these federal regulations control? All the banks and the crooks on wall street, that's who. And who would benefit from that? You and me? Or the other 93% of Americans out there? Look at the deregulation of banks that got us into the epic, economic collapse of 2008. All the people making millions and billions don't want regulations so they can weasel the system and take advantage of the smaller guys. This is textbook, crook Donald Trump in action. It's amazing how blatantly obvious this is. At the same time, we're being thrown crumbs to appease us ad make it sound like we're the ones that are being helped. Yeah, ok.

Then they asked the department of treasury to submit an outline that explains what the tax changes are and how this tax bill will pay for itself and how it will bring jobs back to the US and what are the conditions that need to change (AUTOMATICALLY) in the bill so that if they see the numbers not working n a few years, the new regs are changed automatically to make the proper adjustments, sort of a "fail safe" so that we can avert a fiscal abyss in time. So you figured a document by the secretary of treasury on how all of this would be solved, would be the size of an encyclopedia, right? It was 1 page!!! 1 PAGE! Look at the language on this thing they handed out to the media. Look at the first line for the the "Goals" of the plan loool.






Written by the biggest money hoarding mongrel clown and his twisted money grubbing trophy wife. These are the wonderful people who are in public service because they really care about you and me.






You know the story about these two idiots who took a government plane (and not just a small jet, but one of the big turquoise ones) and went to Fort Knox just to look at the money!? This was part of their lovely honeymoon. lobolobo.

Look at this!






This is the guy who wrote a 1 page paper memo on how this tax bill will not affect the country's eventual rise in deficit or $4 BILLION. People really don't realize how bad the situation is in that zoo that's called the White House. It looks like a bunch of children are running the biggest and most powerful government in the world.

If it truly was a good, sound tax bill that everyone benefited from and actually helped reduce spending and showed proper, fiscal judgment on the future of the deficit and the country, it wouldn't be voted on right down the middle of party lines, for a 3rd time. You would see at least a solid majority vote for it, not straight down party lines. Can you imagine what the other plans that were voted against looked like if this 1 con-job page passed?

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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> According to the NBC/WSJ poll, 50% preferred Democrats and 39% Republican for next year’s midterms.



The next mid-terms may be the most crucial elections as far as mid-terms go.

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## cloud4000

Gomig-21 said:


> If you really simplify it, most of the tax cuts go to the very wealthy, it's that simple. That is the #1 problem with this bill. The business rate is the primary concern for the orange-headed baboon, not the average middle-class voter and that tells a lot. Then you mentioned the deficit; think of who is gong to be stuck with a $4 trillion rise in the current deficit as a result of this bill? Our kids and grand-kids, that's who. Yes, it's going to be $4 trillion and not $1.3 trillion that they're trying to sell us. The great Leon Panetta (former Secretary of Defense, CIA director, White House Chief of Staff and director of Management and Budget so if anyone knows what they're talking about it's this guy,) he had a very detailed description of how it will get to that number and it made a ton of sense.
> 
> And probably the worst part is the blatant con from the baboon and his fearful pawns, that this will bring back jobs to the US! Does this goofball really think we are that stupid!? This is the genius that people were touting about?



Good post!

But don't the wealthy pay most of the taxes in US? So won't they benefit the most when there's a tax cut? Like I said in my post, I don't mind tax cuts as long as you can afford to pay for them, meaning cutting spending, which Congress never does. I hate deficits.

US is going to learn the hard way that borrowing and printing money is no way to finance government. Sooner or later it's going to reach a tipping point when no one will be buying US debt. And where does that leave the country?

As for Trump thinking companies will reinvest their overseas cash hordes into creating jobs, he is delusional. Such investments will be marginal at best. Companies will only make such investments if there is increase demand, both at a micro and macro level. What will happen, in reality, is that companies will use it to buy back stock or give it to shareholders as dividends. Pension funds and retirement accounts will benefit, but it won't lead to the economic boom Trump is expecting.

In addition, Trump wants to spend trillions more on infrastructure, which will balloon the deficit even more. 



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The next mid-terms may be the most crucial elections as far as mid-terms go.



In my opinion, GOP sees the writing on the wall and are in a rush to pass key pieces of legislation before the elections, which are only eleven months away. The tax bill is one of them. The other could be either immigration or infrastructure.

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## KAL-EL

Those supposedly Republican deficit Hawks in Congress are hypocrites.

But hey.. Gotta make sure the donor class is happy.

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## VCheng

cloud4000 said:


> In my opinion, GOP sees the writing on the wall and are in a rush to pass key pieces of legislation before the elections, which are only eleven months away. The tax bill is one of them. The other could be either immigration or infrastructure.



Their majority in the Senate will be down to 1 in January. Next year will be interesting to watch in the lead up to November.


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## katsung47

The core is to help Trump to grab the president power. 
The mastermind is the FBI. 
Russian is only a scapegoat hired to get the thing done. 

Clinton is victim but has been targetted by the FBI

Hillary's email was hacked. She is a victim. Russian (or the FBI) is the thief. But in this election the FBI attacked Clinton all the way to help their candidate Trump to steal the president seat.


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## cloud4000

KAL-EL said:


> Those supposedly Republican deficit Hawks in Congress are hypocrites.
> 
> But hey.. Gotta make sure the donor class is happy.



It was the same when Obamacare was passed. Yes, it's a flawed piece of legislation, and will probably have to re-visit it in the future, but the main goal is just to get it done. Same with this GOP tax cut. Once passed, it will be difficult to reverse.


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## Mugwop

katsung47 said:


> The core is to help Trump to grab the president power.
> The mastermind is the FBI.
> Russian is only a scapegoat hired to get the thing done.
> 
> Clinton is victim but has been targetted by the FBI
> 
> Hillary's email was hacked. She is a victim. Russian (or the FBI) is the thief. But in this election the FBI attacked Clinton all the way to help their candidate Trump to steal the president seat.


Why would the feds do such a thing? trump is a fool and a hot head who can't be controlled which makes him dangerous. Hillary on the other hand has experience in politics.

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## VCheng

Mugwop said:


> Why would the feds do such a thing? trump is a fool and a hot head who can't be controlled which makes him dangerous. Hillary on the other hand has experience in politics.




Why not just accept that Trump won the election fair and square, just like the Gore v. Bush result, without resorting to conspiracy theories? Political upsets are part of the process.

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## Nilgiri

KAL-EL said:


> Those supposedly Republican deficit Hawks in Congress are hypocrites.
> 
> But hey.. Gotta make sure the donor class is happy.



The deficit is a bad thing when you are out of power.

When you are in power, its your best friend 

Dems are literally attacking the same deficit now that they added to lulz. Always funny to seem em cry about 1.5 Trillion deficit of the tax cuts, but ignore the 10 Trillion obama added (doubling the deficit). 

Only if Trump somehow gets spending cuts through (at some combo of where it actually matters - medicare, medicaid, social security, military given those are the biggest parts of the budget by far) at some point will there be some extra meagre points of consistency for GOP. But its not a populist thing to do in the swing vote areas (the blue firewall breach states on nov 8th and the suburb voters in general).

The democrats with their identity politics and populism-welfare linkage have altered the battleground permanently, GOP largely will only tinker on it ( I don't see a Ted Cruz + Rand Paul surge in GOP make up do you?), they wont actually put their neck out to risk political loss BUT try to reclaim on the ground ideological victory with evidence (unlike what the democrats have done for sometime now, heck obama gave up 1000+ seats for it, but its probably worth it in the long run). GOP still doesnt get what its up against, or how it needs to play to win....could cost the US a lot long term (esp if the parties start getting pulled further and further from the centre by their respective Sanders/Trump style personalities while maintaining these sham binary coalitions).

US sorely needs a fracture long term of its two parties (ideally there should be 5, far left, left, centre, right and far right). These broad coalitions to present binary choice to US public is very stupid for 350 million people in 50 states of high variance in the ground issues. One side also wouldnt have such high prevalence in the propaganda outlets too.


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Dems are literally attacking the same deficit now that they added to lulz. Always funny to seem em cry about 1.5 Trillion deficit of the tax cuts, but ignore the 10 Trillion obama added (doubling the deficit).



Remember how Bush cried about the deficit and entitlements and then expanded the prescription drug benefit to add to both?

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## RabzonKhan

Trump left with egg on his face! 

The United Nations Gen assembly voted on a resolution condemning Trump’s unilateral recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. The vote was 128 in favor, 9 against, and 35 abstentions.

Our closest allies, Britain, France, Germany, Finland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden voted in favor of the resolution.

US Amb Nikki Haley made a fool of herself and embarrassed United States by saying “that the US will be closely watching who votes against it”, and threatened that “the US will be taking names”.

The vote was a good example of just how isolated the United States is in the world under Trump administration, and just shows how his arrogant policies are undermining US global leadership, Putin must be happy.

Remember his BS campaign slogan “America first”, now, it looks like “America alone”. 









Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The next mid-terms may be the most crucial elections as far as mid-terms go.


Absolutely, they are important on two levels. First, it will be a nationwide referendum on Trump’s presidency. Second, more importantly, the results will have a significant impact on the once a decade redistricting process, in most states, governors and state senators who win in 2018 will play a vital role in redistricting process, the maps they draw will be in place through 2030.

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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> Absolutely, they are important on two levels. First, it will be a nationwide referendum on Trump’s presidency. Second, more importantly, the results will have a significant impact on the once a decade redistricting process, in most states, governors and state senators who win in 2018 will play a vital role in redistricting process, the maps they draw will be in place through 2030.



If anything, 2018 will be even more exciting to follow than 2017. The Trump presidency will not have any dull moments, that is for sure.

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## Mugwop

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Why not just accept that Trump won the election fair and square, just like the Gore v. Bush result, without resorting to conspiracy theories? Political upsets are part of the process.


Hey it's not my conspiracy theory! Even after hillary's defeat I congratulated some trump supporters here.


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## VCheng

Mugwop said:


> Hey it's not my conspiracy theory! Even after hillary's defeat I congratulated some trump supporters here.



As I mentioned, let us see what happens in the midterms. They are important.


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## Nilgiri

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Remember how Bush cried about the deficit and entitlements and then expanded the prescription drug benefit to add to both?



That was Bush's biggest one? It was tiny to that terrible war spending (but maybe long term spending its different)

But as far as before and after specific contrast, yes thats a good one you mention.

There is broad based agreement between dems and repubs on deficit spending (they just have slightly different preferences) and harnessing the reverse optics during the respective power cycles (shamelessly and hypocritically using the level of ignorance/amnesia present at the US electorate buffet)....because the (largely same) economists both sides use, given to them by broadly the same special interests/donors...have said the seigniorage of the US dollar can be assumed as a bottomless pit....because hey why not drive to the cliff full speed ahead, there are chances the cliff is just a small sand dune right? 

Trump kind of upset that gentlemans agreement, but how much he can do or even wants to do remains to be seen. He has mentioned welfare reform recently, paul ryan has largely got a "framework" for it....but I dont hold my breath.


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> That was Bush's biggest one? It was tiny to that terrible war spending (but maybe long term spending its different)
> 
> But as far as before and after specific contrast, yes thats a good one you mention.
> 
> There is broad based agreement between dems and repubs on deficit spending (they just have slightly different preferences) and harnessing the reverse optics during the respective power cycles (shamelessly and hypocritically using the level of ignorance/amnesia present at the US electorate buffet)....because the (largely same) economists both sides use, given to them by broadly the same special interests/donors...have said the seigniorage of the US dollar can be assumed as a bottomless pit....because hey why not drive to the cliff full speed ahead, there are chances the cliff is just a small sand dune right?
> 
> Trump kind of upset that gentlemans agreement, but how much he can do or even wants to do remains to be seen. He has mentioned welfare reform recently, paul ryan has largely got a "framework" for it....but I dont hold my breath.



May be the collective wisdom of the American voters saw that the disruption cause by the orange twit-in-chief rather than the comfortable same old same old of another Clinton would be good for the country in the long run?

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## Nilgiri

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> May be the collective wisdom of the American voters saw that the disruption cause by the orange twit-in-chief rather than the comfortable same old same old of another Clinton would be good for the country in the long run?



Tweet-in-chief more like. 

It could very well be....given the obama voters that specifically did not turn out for clinton in say michigan, wisc and pennsylvania (and the more traditional swing states like ohio). Trump got fewer votes there than Romney overall I believe....but nearly no one really wanted Clinton (esp when you take away the anti-Trump votes lol).

A funny delicious irony as well that the polls suggesting a comfortable clinton win helped to further depress the turnout (hey we GOT this easily phenomenon) of reluctant voters (who probably 1 - 10% leaned clinton and would have voted if the proper polling/MSM charade showed them the danger).

BTW buddy out of interest, do you follow any of what Ben Shapiro puts out there? He normally has a frank, sane take on the situation overall.


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Tweet-in-chief more like.
> 
> It could very well be....given the obama voters that specifically did not turn out for clinton in say michigan, wisc and pennsylvania (and the more traditional swing states like ohio). Trump got fewer votes there than Romney overall I believe....but nearly no one really wanted Clinton (esp when you take away the anti-Trump votes lol).
> 
> A funny delicious irony as well that the polls suggesting a comfortable clinton win helped to further depress the turnout (hey we GOT this easily phenomenon) of reluctant voters (who probably 1 - 10% leaned clinton and would have voted if the proper polling/MSM charade showed them the danger).
> 
> BTW buddy out of interest, do you follow any of what Ben Shapiro puts out there? He normally has a frank, sane take on the situation overall.



Some computer models were suggesting a 98% chance of a Clinton win (!). I do not follow any one source for my inputs which are quite diverse on purpose.



(I like "Twit-in-Chief" better.  )

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## Mugwop

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> As I mentioned, let us see what happens in the midterms. They are important.


Ok, btw why did nilgiri got banned?


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## VCheng

Mugwop said:


> Ok, btw why did nilgiri got banned?



I am not privy to any decisions made by management or their rationale, or lack thereof.


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## Gomig-21

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> (I like "Twit-in-Chief" better.  )



Speaking of...lol...the level of delusion is frighteningly comical. It's like when you read this tweet from a few minutes ago, you can't help but laugh with a concerned face.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/945030174290186241


- 32% approval rating, the worst EVER for a president in his first year
- 1 for 5 on passing any meaningful legislation 
- Has no clue about the US history he supports (Andrew Jackson!)
- Supported white supremacists and has created divisiveness in the country
- His presidential campaign is under investigation for collusion
- Attacks people like a classless ingnoramus and certainly not like a president
- Had 3 members of his cabinet indicted on criminal charges
- Supported a pedophile for senator and lost 
- Has alienated the majority of the top, world leaders
- 93% of everything he says is a lie
- Screams "Fake News" any time he doesn't like what he hears
- Lies about his phantom success 
- Has hired and fired more people than we can keep track of
- Constantly takes credit for the economy when he has nothing to do with it
- Has absolutely 0 sense of environmental issues (Dakota pipeline, Alaska, wall & elephants) 
- Is only raving about the stock market because he's making a ton of money
- What the heck was Omarosa doing in the white house, again?
- Lies again for good measure
- Has members of his own party come out and openly criticize him as incompetent
- Puts 800,000 people on the verge of deportation to no fault of their own
- Is called a "moron" by his own secretary of state
- Lies again 
- Tweets like a butt-hurt child at 3 am
- Tweets racist and bigoted anti Muslim videos
- Has pissed off the entire world (except for 8 countries) with his selfish Jerusalem announcement
- Lies some more

And he thinks he's had a great year.

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## VCheng

Gomig-21 said:


> Speaking of...lol...the level of delusion is frighteningly comical. It's like when you read this tweet from a few minutes ago, you can't help but laugh with a concerned face.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/945030174290186241
> 
> 
> - 32% approval rating, the worst EVER for a president in his first year
> - 1 for 5 on passing any meaningful legislation
> - Has no clue about the US history he supports (Andrew Jackson!)
> - Supported white supremacists and has created divisiveness in the country
> - His presidential campaign is under investigation for collusion
> - Attacks people like a classless ingnoramus and certainly not like a president
> - Had 3 members of his cabinet indicted on criminal charges
> - Supported a pedophile for senator and lost
> - Has alienated the majority of the top, world leaders
> - 93% of everything he says is a lie
> - Screams "Fake News" any time he doesn't like what he hears
> - Lies about his phantom success
> - Has hired and fired more people than we can keep track of
> - Constantly takes credit for the economy when he has nothing to do with it
> - Has absolutely 0 sense of environmental issues (Dakota pipeline, Alaska, wall & elephants)
> - Is only raving about the stock market because he's making a ton of money
> - What the heck was Omarosa doing in the white house, again?
> - Lies again for good measure
> - Has members of his own party come out and openly criticize him as incompetent
> - Puts 800,000 people on the verge of deportation to no fault of their own
> - Is called a "moron" by his own secretary of state
> - Lies again
> - Tweets like a butt-hurt child at 3 am
> - Tweets racist and bigoted anti Muslim videos
> - Has pissed off the entire world (except for 8 countries) with his selfish Jerusalem announcement
> - Lies some more
> 
> And he thinks he's had a great year.



I will reserve judgement on his performance until the results of the midterm elections. None of what you have posted matters unless he loses both chambers.


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## Security Counsil

.


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## katsung47

Trump is not elected by people but selected by the Feds (FBI)
One thing you should know that US is a covert totalitarian. It is run by a terror group. They control the government system and select politicians by rigged election. They also control the media to make the election result reasonable by fake poll.


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## Gomig-21

katsung47 said:


> Trump is not elected by people but selected by the Feds (FBI)
> One thing you should know that US is a covert totalitarian. It is run by a terror group. They control the government system and select politicians by rigged election. They also control the media to make the election result reasonable by fake poll.



Oh, ma, gosh.

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## VCheng

katsung47 said:


> Trump is not elected by people but selected by the Feds (FBI)
> One thing you should know that US is a covert totalitarian. It is run by a terror group. They control the government system and select politicians by rigged election. They also control the media to make the election result reasonable by fake poll.




All your elections are belong to us!


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## RabzonKhan

Hypocrite, this guy likes to call others “low energy”. 




*Link*

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Hypocrite, this guy likes to call others “low energy”.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/946416486054285314

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## RabzonKhan

This government is a clown show. Trump’s ambassador to the Netherlands, Pete Hoekstra got caught red-handed lying in an interview with Dutch TV. Dutch reporter asks ambassador Hoekstra: “you mentioned in a debate that there are no-go zones in the Netherlands, and that cars and politicians are being set on fire in Netherlands.” Hoekstra replies, (or should I say, lies) “I didn’t say that, this is actually an incorrect statement, we will call it fake news”

Then the Dutch reporter shows him a clip of him exactly saying that, “the Islamic movement has now gotten to a point where they have put Europe into chaos. Chaos in the Netherlands, there are car being burnt, there are politicians that are being burnt, and yes there are no-go zones in the Netherlands.”

After watching the clip, Hoekstra shamelessly then went on to deny that he had in fact used the phrase “fake news.” “I didn’t call that fake news, I didn’t use the words, I don’t think I did.”

Watch the video and have fun. 






Looks like, US Amb to the United Nations, Nikki Haley is going downhill, first, she made a fool of herself on the United Nations resolution on Jerusalem, and now if this story is true, then it's quite embarrassing.


*Was Nikki Haley pranked by Russians, or are these tricksters fooling us all? * 

U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley may have been fooled by a pair of Russian pranksters pretending to be the prime minister of Poland.

The duo, known as Vovan and Lexus, claims to have arranged a crank phone call Thursday with the former South Carolina governor.

The pair, whose real names are Alexei Stolyarov and Vladimir Kuznetsov, posted a nearly 22-minute video clip this weekend in which a woman who sounds like Haley speaks to a man who she thinks is the new Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki.

"Yes, this is Nikki. How are you Mr. Minister?" the woman who sounds like Haley said. "Let me start with very much thanking you for the support we've received on the vote today. We will never forget it."

The alleged phone call happened the same day the United Nations voted to reject America's decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, much to the frustration of President Donald Trump and Haley. But Poland did not vote with the United States in opposing the resolution. Poland, instead, joined 35 member nations who abstained from the vote altogether.

*Between questions about Ukraine and Russia, the fake prime minister asked Haley about Binomo — a fake island that does not exist.

"You know Binomo?" the prankster said.

"Yes, yes," Haley responded.

"They had elections and we suppose Russians had its intervention," the joker said.

"Yes, of course they did, absolutely," Haley said.*

When asked about America's plans to do about the situation in Binomo, Haley said, "Let me find out exactly what our stance is on that, and what if anything the U.S. is doing or thinks should be done and I will report back to you on that as well."






The pranksters claim the full conversation with Haley lasted about 30 minutes. *Link*

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> This government is a clown show. Trump’s ambassador to the Netherlands, Pete Hoekstra got caught red-handed lying in an interview with Dutch TV. Dutch reporter asks ambassador Hoekstra: “you mentioned in a debate that there are no-go zones in the Netherlands, and that cars and politicians are being set on fire in Netherlands.” Hoekstra replies, (or should I say, lies) “I didn’t say that, this is actually an incorrect statement, we will call it fake news”
> 
> Then the Dutch reporter shows him a clip of him exactly saying that, “the Islamic movement has now gotten to a point where they have put Europe into chaos. Chaos in the Netherlands, there are car being burnt, there are politicians that are being burnt, and yes there are no-go zones in the Netherlands.”
> 
> After watching the clip, Hoekstra shamelessly then went on to deny that he had in fact used the phrase “fake news.” “I didn’t call that fake news, I didn’t use the words, I don’t think I did.”
> 
> Watch the video and have fun.



Not surprising. Now Trump is tweeting about Amazon cheating USPS out of revenue. I don't know if I can three more years of him...

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## Gomig-21

cloud4000 said:


> Not surprising. Now Trump is tweeting about Amazon cheating USPS out of revenue. I don't know if I can three more years of him...



First tweet of 2018 from the nitwit is a blast against Pakistan!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/947802588174577664

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## cloud4000

Gomig-21 said:


> First tweet of 2018 from the nitwit is a blast against Pakistan!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/947802588174577664



I wonder if Trump will tweet about the trillions spent on Afghanistan, including supporting a vehemently corrupt and consistently incompetent Kabul government. I doubt it.

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## Gomig-21

cloud4000 said:


> I wonder if Trump will tweet about the trillions spent on Afghanistan, including supporting a vehemently corrupt and consistently incompetent Kabul government. I doubt it.



Funny, that was the first thing that came to my mind after seeing this tweet. The $4.5 billion in aid is on top of US military expenditure which is really staggering. It's hard to answer whether it's been effective or not, since the only way we -- as the laymen civilians -- can measure it is by noticing less terrorism originating from there. If that's a good way to judge the return in investment, I guess it is working. But it begs the question if that level of success can be attained without such a high cost.

There was a program (I think it was VICE) where they showed how terribly managed a lot of the funding is in Afghanistan. Hundreds of millions in contracts on foolish projects, many of which are standing still or abandoned and squandered or wasted and robbed. In a sad and kind of twisted way of looking at it, the vermin of 9/11 succeeded in the end, beyond the death and destruction they inflicted that terrible day. Our everyday lives have changed to some extent or another and the perpetual cost of that day has been beyond comprehension.

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## RabzonKhan

Trump is China's Gorbachev. I was reading a fascinating piece by Evan Osnos about how Trump is making China great again. It’s long, but worth the read.


*Making China Great Again*

*As Donald Trump surrenders America’s global commitments, Xi Jinping is learning to pick up the pieces.*

By Evan Osnos

When the Chinese action movie “Wolf Warrior II” arrived in theatres, in July, it looked like a standard shoot-’em-up, with a lonesome hero and frequent explosions. Within two weeks, however, “Wolf Warrior II” had become the highest-grossing Chinese movie of all time. Some crowds gave it standing ovations; others sang the national anthem. In October, China selected it as its official entry in the foreign-language category of the Academy Awards.

The hero, Leng Feng, played by the action star Wu Jing (who also directed the film), is a veteran of the “wolf warriors,” special forces of the People’s Liberation Army. In retirement, he works as a guard in a fictional African country, on the frontier of China’s ventures abroad. A rebel army, backed by Western mercenaries, attempts to seize power, and the country is engulfed in civil war. Leng shepherds civilians to the gates of the Chinese Embassy, where the Ambassador wades into the battle and declares, “Stand down! We are Chinese! China and Africa are friends.” The rebels hold their fire, and survivors are spirited to safety aboard a Chinese battleship.

*Leng rescues an American doctor, who tells him that the Marines will come to their aid. “But where are they now?” he asks her. She calls the American consulate and gets a recorded message: “Unfortunately, we are closed.” In the final battle, a villain, played by the American actor Frank Grillo, tells Leng, “People like you will always be inferior to people like me. Get used to it.” Leng beats the villain to death and replies, “That was fucking history.” The film closes with the image of a Chinese passport and the words “Don’t give up if you run into danger abroad. Please remember, a strong motherland will always have your back!”*

When I moved to Beijing, in 2005, little of that story would have made sense to a Chinese audience. With doses of invention and schmalz, the movie draws on recent events. In 2015, China’s Navy conducted its first international evacuation, rescuing civilians from fighting in Yemen; last year, China opened its first overseas military base, in Djibouti. There has been a deeper development as well. For decades, Chinese nationalism revolved around victimhood: the bitter legacy of invasion and imperialism, and the memory of a China so weak that, at the end of the nineteenth century, the philosopher Liang Qichao called his country “the sick man of Asia.” “Wolf Warrior II” captures a new, muscular iteration of China’s self-narrative, much as Rambo’s heroics expressed the swagger of the Reagan era.

Recently, I met Wu Jing in Los Angeles, where he was promoting the movie in advance of the Academy Awards. Wu is forty-three, with short, spiky hair, a strong jaw, and an air of prickly bravado. He was on crutches, the result of “jumping off too many buildings,” he told me, in Chinese. (He speaks little English.) “In the past, all of our movies were about, say, the Opium Wars—how other countries waged war _against_ China,” he said. “But Chinese people have always wanted to see that our country could, one day, have the power to protect its own people and contribute to peace in the world.”

As a favored son of China, celebrated by the state, Wu doesn’t complain about censorship and propaganda. He went on, “Although we’re not living in a peaceful time, we live in a peaceful country. I don’t think we should be spending much energy thinking about negative aspects that would make us unhappy. Cherish this moment!”

China has never seen such a moment, when its pursuit of a larger role in the world coincides with America’s pursuit of a smaller one. Ever since the Second World War, the United States has advocated an international order based on a free press and judiciary, human rights, free trade, and protection of the environment. It planted those ideas in the rebuilding of Germany and Japan, and spread them with alliances around the world. *In March, 1959, President Eisenhower argued that America’s authority could not rest on military power alone. “We could be the wealthiest and the most mighty nation and still lose the battle of the world if we do not help our world neighbors protect their freedom and advance their social and economic progress,” he said. “It is not the goal of the American people that the United States should be the richest nation in the graveyard of history.”*

*Under the banner of “America First,” President Trump is reducing U.S. commitments abroad. On his third day in office, he withdrew from the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a twelve-nation trade deal designed by the United States as a counterweight to a rising China. To allies in Asia, the withdrawal damaged America’s credibility. “You won’t be able to see that overnight,” Lee Hsien Loong, the Prime Minister of Singapore, told me, at an event in Washington. “It’s like when you draw a red line and then you don’t take it seriously. Was there pain? You didn’t see it, but I’m quite sure there’s an impact.”*

*In a speech to Communist Party officials last January 20th, Major General Jin Yinan, a strategist at China’s National Defense University, celebrated America’s pullout from the trade deal. “We are quiet about it,” he said. “We repeatedly state that Trump ‘harms China.’ We want to keep it that way. In fact, he has given China a huge gift. That is the American withdrawal from T.P.P.” Jin, whose remarks later circulated, told his audience, “As the U.S. retreats globally, China shows up.”*

For years, China’s leaders predicted that a time would come—perhaps midway through this century—when it could project its own values abroad. In the age of “America First,” that time has come far sooner than expected.

*Barack Obama’s foreign policy was characterized as leading from behind. Trump’s doctrine may come to be understood as retreating from the front. Trump has severed American commitments that he considers risky, costly, or politically unappealing. In his first week in office, he tried to ban travellers from seven Muslim-majority countries, arguing that they pose a terrorist threat. (After court battles, a version of the ban took effect in December.) He announced his intention to withdraw the U.S. from the Paris Agreement on climate change and from unesco, and he abandoned United Nations talks on migration. He has said that he might renege on the Iran nuclear deal, a free-trade agreement with South Korea, and nafta.* His proposal for the 2018 budget would cut foreign assistance by forty-two per cent, or $11.5 billion, and it reduces American funding for development projects, such as those financed by the World Bank. *In December, Trump threatened to cut off aid to any country that supports a resolution condemning his decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. (The next day, in defiance of Trump’s threat, the resolution passed overwhelmingly.)*

To frame his vision of a smaller presence abroad, Trump often portrays America’s urgent task as one of survival. As he put it during the campaign, “At what point do you say, ‘Hey, we have to take care of ourselves’? So, you know, I know the outer world exists and I’ll be very cognizant of that, but, at the same time, our country is disintegrating.”

So far, Trump has proposed reducing U.S. contributions to the U.N. by forty per cent, and pressured the General Assembly to cut six hundred million dollars from its peacekeeping budget. In his first speech to the U.N., in September, Trump ignored its collective spirit and celebrated sovereignty above all, saying, “As President of the United States, I will always put America first, just like you, as the leaders of your countries, will always and should always put your countries first.”

*China’s approach is more ambitious. In recent years, it has taken steps to accrue national power on a scale that no country has attempted since the Cold War, by increasing its investments in the types of assets that established American authority in the previous century: foreign aid, overseas security, foreign influence, and the most advanced new technologies, such as artificial intelligence. It has become one of the leading contributors to the U.N.’s budget and to its peacekeeping force, and it has joined talks to address global problems such as terrorism, piracy, and nuclear proliferation.

And China has embarked on history’s most expensive foreign infrastructure plan. Under the Belt and Road Initiative, it is building bridges, railways, and ports in Asia, Africa, and beyond. If the initiative’s cost reaches a trillion dollars, as predicted, it will be more than seven times that of the Marshall Plan, which the U.S. launched in 1947, spending a hundred and thirty billion, in today’s dollars, on rebuilding postwar Europe.*

China is also seizing immediate opportunities presented by Trump. Days before the T.P.P. withdrawal, President Xi Jinping spoke at the World Economic Forum, in Davos, Switzerland, a first for a paramount Chinese leader. Xi reiterated his support for the Paris climate deal and compared protectionism to “locking oneself in a dark room.” He said, “No one will emerge as a winner in a trade war.” This was an ironic performance—for decades, China has relied on protectionism—but Trump provided an irresistible opening. China is negotiating with at least sixteen countries to form the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, a free-trade zone that excludes the United States, which it proposed in 2012 as a response to the T.P.P. If the deal is signed next year, as projected, it will create the world’s largest trade bloc, by population. 

Some of China’s growing sway is unseen by the public. In October, the World Trade Organization convened ministers from nearly forty countries in Marrakech, Morocco, for the kind of routine diplomatic session that updates rules on trade in agriculture and seafood. The Trump Administration, which has been critical of the W.T.O., sent an official who delivered a speech and departed early. “For two days of meetings, there were no Americans,” a former U.S. official told me. “And the Chinese were going into every session and chortling about how they were now guarantors of the trading system.”

By setting more of the world’s rules, China hopes to “break the Western moral advantage,” which identifies “good and bad” political systems, as Li Ziguo, at the China Institute of International Studies, has said. In November, 2016, Meng Hongwei, a Chinese vice-minister of public security, became the first Chinese president of Interpol, the international police organization; the move alarmed human-rights groups, because Interpol has been criticized for helping authoritarian governments target and harass dissidents and pro-democracy activists abroad.

By some measures, the U.S. will remain dominant for years to come. It has at least twelve aircraft carriers. China has two. The U.S. has collective defense treaties with more than fifty countries. China has one, with North Korea. Moreover, China’s economic path is complicated by heavy debts, bloated state-owned enterprises, rising inequality, and slowing growth. The workers who once powered China’s boom are graying. China’s air, water, and soil are disastrously polluted.

And yet the gap has narrowed. In 2000, the U.S. accounted for thirty-one per cent of the global economy, and China accounted for four per cent. Today, the U.S.’s share is twenty-four per cent and China’s fifteen per cent. If its economy surpasses America’s in size, as experts predict, it will be the first time in more than a century that the world’s largest economy belongs to a non-democratic country. *At that point, China will play a larger role in shaping, or thwarting, values such as competitive elections, freedom of expression, and an open Internet. Already, the world has less confidence in America than we might guess. Last year, the Pew Research Center asked people in thirty-seven countries which leader would do the right thing when it came to world affairs. They chose Xi Jinping over Donald Trump, twenty-eight per cent to twenty-two per cent.*

*Facing criticism for his lack of interest in global leadership, Trump, in December, issued a national-security strategy that singled out China and Russia and declared, “We will raise our competitive game to meet that challenge, to protect American interests, and to advance our values.” But, in his speech unveiling the strategy, he hailed his pullout from “job-killing deals such as the Trans-Pacific Partnership and the very expensive and unfair Paris climate accord.” The next day, Roger Cohen, of the Times, described the contradictions of Trump’s foreign policy as a “farce.” *Some allies have taken to avoiding the Administration. “I’ll tell you, honestly, for a foreigner, in the past we were used to going to the White House to get our work done,” Shivshankar Menon, India’s former foreign secretary and national-security adviser to the Prime Minister, told me. “Now we go to the corporations, to Congress, to the Pentagon, wherever.”

*On his recent visit to Washington, Prime Minister Lee, of Singapore, said that the rest of the world can no longer pretend to ignore the contrasts between American and Chinese leadership. “Since the war, you’ve held the peace. You’ve provided security. You’ve opened your markets. You’ve developed links across the Pacific,” he said. “And now, with a rising set of players on the west coast of the Pacific, where does America want to go? Do you want to be engaged?” He went on, “If you are not there, then everybody else in the world will look around and say, I want to be friends with both the U.S. and the Chinese—and the Chinese are ready, and I’ll start with them.” Read more*
https://www.newyorker.com/cartoon/a21524



Gomig-21 said:


> First tweet of 2018 from the nitwit is a blast against Pakistan!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/947802588174577664


Nothing new, the US–Pak relations has never been free of friction, even in the best of times, we always had ups and downs, and it’s quite sad that over all these years both countries have failed to develop broad base long-lasting ties based on mutual interest.

As far as Trump threats are concerned, Pakistani leaders, and especially its military establishment very well known that it’s all hot air, before Trump, Bush did it, Obama did it, and guess what, nothing happened.

To make a long story short, the bottom line is that Pakistan very well knows that America is not going to destabilize a nuclear Pakistan to stabilize Afghanistan.

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## RabzonKhan

What a childish behavior, once again, his tweet shows he is unfit to be president.

*
Trump to North Korean leader Kim: My nuclear button ‘is bigger & more powerful’*

by HASANI GITTENS

My button is bigger than yours.

President Donald Trump, reacting to North Korean leader Kim Jong Un saying he had a "nuclear button on his desk" and was ready to use it against the United States, said on Twitter late Tuesday that his own nuclear button "is a much bigger & more powerful one than his, and my Button works!"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/948355557022420992
In a televised speech Monday, Kim had said: "The entire United States is within range of our nuclear weapons, and a nuclear button is always on my desk. This is reality, not a threat."

While Trump boasted about his "nuclear button," the president doesn't actually have a physical one.

The process for launching a nuclear strike is secret and complex and involves the use of a nuclear "football," which is carried by a rotating group of military officers everywhere the president goes and is equipped with communication tools and a book with prepared war plans.

If the president were to order a strike, he would identify himself to military officials at the Pentagon with codes unique to him. Those codes are recorded on a card known as the "biscuit" that is carried by the president at all times. He would then transmit the launch order to the Pentagon and Strategic Command. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

A bitter war of words has broken out between Steve Bannon and the Trump coterie. I’m loving it, and hoping that it further escalates.

Steve Bannon, Trump’s former chief strategist, called the meeting between Donald Trump Jr, Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner, Trump’s campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Russians in the Trump Tower treasonous.

He spoke to the author Michael Wolff for his upcoming book, Fire and Fury: Inside Trump White House. He sarcastically said: “the three senior guys in the campaign thought it was a good idea to meet with a foreign government inside Trump Tower in the conference room on 25th floor, with no lawyers. Even if you thought that this was not treasonous, or unpatriotic, or bad shit, and I happen to think it’s all of that, you should have called the FBI immediately”.

I agree with Steve Bannon 100%, he is damn right, no doubt, the meeting was completely unpatriotic and they should have contacted the FBI.

Steve Bannon also speculated that Trump Jr had involved his father in the meeting. “The chance that Don Jr did not walk these jumos up to his father’s office on the 26th floor is zero.”

I think that infuriated Trump, the White House released an angry statement from Trump.

Trump’s full statement:

Steve Bannon has nothing to do with me or my Presidency. When he was fired, he not only lost his job, he lost his mind. Steve was a staffer who worked for me after I had already won the nomination by defeating seventeen candidates, often described as the most talented field ever assembled in the Republican party.

Now that he is on his own, Steve is learning that winning isn’t as easy as I make it look. Steve had very little to do with our historic victory, which was delivered by the forgotten men and women of this country. Yet Steve had everything to do with the loss of a Senate seat in Alabama held for more than thirty years by Republicans. Steve doesn’t represent my base—he’s only in it for himself.

Steve pretends to be at war with the media, which he calls the opposition party, yet he spent his time at the White House leaking false information to the media to make himself seem far more important than he was. It is the only thing he does well. Steve was rarely in a one-on-one meeting with me and only pretends to have had influence to fool a few people with no access and no clue, whom he helped write phony books.

We have many great Republican members of Congress and candidates who are very supportive of the Make America Great Again agenda. Like me, they love the United States of America and are helping to finally take our country back and build it up, rather than simply seeking to burn it all down.

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## TaiShang

RabzonKhan said:


> By some measures, the U.S. will remain dominant for years to come. It has at least twelve aircraft carriers. China has two. The U.S. has collective defense treaties with more than fifty countries. China has one, with North Korea. Moreover, China’s economic path is complicated by heavy debts, bloated state-owned enterprises, rising inequality, and slowing growth. The workers who once powered China’s boom are graying. China’s air, water, and soil are disastrously polluted.






***

*China has no intention of leading, replacing any country: FM*

(People's Daily) 09:59, January 04, 2018






Geng Shuang, Spokesperson of China's Foreign Ministry presides a regular press conference/File photo

China reiterated Wednesday that its diplomacy in the new era aims to foster *a new type of international relations and build a community with a shared future for mankind*, and that it has *no intention of leading or replacing any country in international affairs* after a US think tank said China will fill the vacuum left by the US as President Donald Trump accelerates divisions and unravels the world order.

Geng Shuang, spokesperson of China's Foreign Ministry, told a regular press conference on Wednesday that the 19th CPC Congress has made it clear that major-country diplomacy with Chinese characteristics aims to foster a new type of international relations and build a community with a shared future for mankind. He said China follows the principle of achieving shared growth through discussion and collaboration in engaging in global governance.

The Eurasia Group released an outlook on the top 10 global risks for 2018, saying that the world is moving toward crisis and a state of "geopolitical depression" as the presidency of Donald Trump accelerates divisions among citizens and the unraveling of the global order, while China will fill the vacuum left by the US, which will be the top global risk in 2018.

Previously, the Eurasia Group's report said that China's political model is now perceived as stronger than it has ever been at a time when the US political model is weakened and will end up with a moment of global reordering.

"*China has no intention to lead or replace any country in international affairs,*" Geng added.

http://en.people.cn/n3/2018/0104/c90000-9311553.html

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> What a childish behavior, once again, his tweet shows he is unfit to be president.



Since the new year, it seems the tweets are getting more and more deranged, hence the whispering of a worried White House about an "unstable" president. Fire & Fury is only going to flame things even more than it already has, especially after his reaction to it, threatening to sue if released is unbelievable!

And now this. This is how low we've sunk with this obsessive fool and child, and frankly, and complete tool bag.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/950103659337134080

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## cloud4000

Gomig-21 said:


> Since the new year, it seems the tweets are getting more and more deranged, hence the whispering of a worried White House about an "unstable" president. Fire & Fury is only going to flame things even more than it already has, especially after his reaction to it, threatening to sue if released is unbelievable!
> 
> And now this. This is how low we've sunk with this obsessive fool and child, and frankly, and complete tool bag.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/950103659337134080



I doubt whether the book Fire & Fury will have the impact its author is claiming. For Trump haters, it's nothing more than confirmation. For his supporters, it will just harden their stance.

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## katsung47

Bannon Called Donald Trump Jr.'s Meeting with Russian Lawyer 'Treasonous' and 'Unpatriotic' but now he says he regrets. His boss is unhappy?


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## RabzonKhan

Shamelessly Trump once again degraded the office of the President, he is digging himself and the Republican party into a shithole, and just continues to undermine the standing of United States around the world, his disgusting behavior and racist comments are alienating and embarrassing our friends and are encouraging our adversaries. 






*Trump referred to Haiti and African nations as ‘shithole’ countries
*
by ALI VITALI, KASIE HUNT and FRANK THORP 

WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump referred to Haiti and African nations as "shithole countries" during a meeting with a bipartisan group of senators at the White House, a Democratic aide briefed on Thursday's meeting told NBC News.

Trump's comments were first reported by The Washington Post, which said the nations referred to by Trump also included El Salvador.

The U.N. human rights office said the comments, if confirmed, were "shocking and shameful" and "racist," while Haiti's foreign minister summoned the U.S. Chargé d’Affaires Robin Diallo for clarification.

Two sources briefed on the conversation say that during the portion of the conversation about Haiti — which came at the top of the exchange that led to the “shithole” comment — the president questioned why Haitians should be given specific consideration.

“Why do we need more Haitians, take them out,” he said, according to sources. Someone else in the room responded: “Because if you do, it will be obvious why.” *Read more*

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## Muhammed45

RabzonKhan said:


> Shamelessly Trump once again degraded the office of the President, he is digging himself and the Republican party into a shithole, and just continues to undermine the standing of United States around the world, his disgusting behavior and racist comments are alienating and embarrassing our friends and are encouraging our adversaries.
> 
> View attachment 448462
> 
> 
> *Trump referred to Haiti and African nations as ‘shithole’ countries
> *
> by ALI VITALI, KASIE HUNT and FRANK THORP
> 
> WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump referred to Haiti and African nations as "shithole countries" during a meeting with a bipartisan group of senators at the White House, a Democratic aide briefed on Thursday's meeting told NBC News.
> 
> Trump's comments were first reported by The Washington Post, which said the nations referred to by Trump also included El Salvador.
> 
> The U.N. human rights office said the comments, if confirmed, were "shocking and shameful" and "racist," while Haiti's foreign minister summoned the U.S. Chargé d’Affaires Robin Diallo for clarification.
> 
> Two sources briefed on the conversation say that during the portion of the conversation about Haiti — which came at the top of the exchange that led to the “shithole” comment — the president questioned why Haitians should be given specific consideration.
> 
> “Why do we need more Haitians, take them out,” he said, according to sources. Someone else in the room responded: “Because if you do, it will be obvious why.” *Read more*


Trump's mind is like a diaper, self-absorb and full of shit

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## RabzonKhan

Here is a small sample of how the world is reacting to Trump’s racist comments:

African UN ambassadors and the African Union have called for "a retraction and an apology" from US President Donald Trump after he reportedly described them as "s***hole" countries. Trump has denied using the phrase.

All 54 African ambassadors to the United Nations decried Donald Trump's reported remarks as "outrageous, racist, and xenophobic" on Friday, a day after US media reported that Trump had referred to African states, Haiti, and El Salvador as "s***hole countries."

The UN diplomats met for an emergency session before issuing a joint statement to demand a "retraction and an apology" from the US president.

"For once, we are all on the same page," an ambassador told the Agence France-Presse news agency.

The ambassadors also thanked American citizens "from all walks of life who have condemned the remarks." *Read more*



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/951586161931235328

UN Human Rights Commissioner Zeid Ra’ad al-Hussein's spokesman, Rupert Colville, did not mince words: "There is no other word one can use but racist."

"You cannot dismiss entire countries and continents as 'shitholes', whose entire populations, who are not white, are therefore not welcome," Colville added. "The future of the Dreamers should not be used as a bargaining chip to negotiate the most severe and restrictive immigration and security measures possible. These are human beings, not commodities."

Source: Sky News

*Johannesburg (CNN) *South Africa issued a diplomatic protest to the United States Monday over President Donald Trump's "shithole countries" comments, according to its foreign ministry. *Read more*

South African diplomats also met with the US Embassy's Charge d'Affaires Monday to express their concerns.


"We view the utterances by the current American President as highly irresponsible, reprehensible, and racist," the Ministry of International Affairs of Botswana said in a statement. *Read more*

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## RabzonKhan

Interesting times ahead! 
*
NYT: Mueller subpoenas Bannon
*
Washington (CNN)Special counsel Robert Mueller subpoenaed former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon last week, The New York Times reported Tuesday.

Bannon was on Capitol Hill testifying before the House Intelligence Committee when the news broke that Mueller had issued the subpoena for the now-estranged associate of President Donald Trump to testify before a grand jury.
Bannon's testimony on the Hill on Tuesday was his first appearance before any of the congressional committees investigating alleged Russian interference in the 2016 election or potential coordination with Trump's associates, and it comes just days after the White Housebroke with Bannon over comments attributed to him disparaging Trump and the Trump family.
Several White House staffers have come forward voluntarily for interviews with the special counsel team. The New York Times, citing a person with direct knowledge, said the grand jury subpoena for Bannon "could be a negotiating tactic" and that Mueller would likely allow Bannon to speak with investigators instead of going before the grand jury.


The subpoena came after Bannon's comments to author Michael Wolff became public, according to The New York Times. In Wolff's book "Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump White House," Bannon is quoted as saying a June 2016 meeting Donald Trump Jr., Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner and then-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort had with a Russian lawyer promising dirt on Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton was "treasonous" and "unpatriotic."

Bannon also said he assumed Trump Jr. delivered information about the meeting to Trump, despite denials from the two, and downplayed the likelihood of illegal coordination with Russia while saying there was dread that Mueller's investigation could turn up something else nefarious, such as money laundering.
Trump disavowed Bannon, saying his former top aide had "lost his mind," and later nicknamed him "Sloppy Steve." A source close to Bannon subsequently provided a statement saying Bannon expressed regret over the timing of his response to the book and that he thinks Trump Jr. is a "patriot."
Trump appointed Bannon his campaign's chief executive at the outset of the general election, and Bannon, along with now-White House counselor Kellyanne Conway, led the Trump campaign through Election Day. Bannon assumed a top post as chief strategist in the White House after the election and left last August amid a major staff shakeup.
He returned to his perch atop Breitbart News but left the site in the wake of Wolff's book and Trump's rebuke. *Source*




TaiShang said:


> ***
> 
> *China has no intention of leading, replacing any country: FM*
> 
> (People's Daily) 09:59, January 04, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Geng Shuang, Spokesperson of China's Foreign Ministry presides a regular press conference/File photo
> 
> China reiterated Wednesday that its diplomacy in the new era aims to foster *a new type of international relations and build a community with a shared future for mankind*, and that it has *no intention of leading or replacing any country in international affairs* after a US think tank said China will fill the vacuum left by the US as President Donald Trump accelerates divisions and unravels the world order.
> 
> Geng Shuang, spokesperson of China's Foreign Ministry, told a regular press conference on Wednesday that the 19th CPC Congress has made it clear that major-country diplomacy with Chinese characteristics aims to foster a new type of international relations and build a community with a shared future for mankind. He said China follows the principle of achieving shared growth through discussion and collaboration in engaging in global governance.
> 
> The Eurasia Group released an outlook on the top 10 global risks for 2018, saying that the world is moving toward crisis and a state of "geopolitical depression" as the presidency of Donald Trump accelerates divisions among citizens and the unraveling of the global order, while China will fill the vacuum left by the US, which will be the top global risk in 2018.
> 
> Previously, the Eurasia Group's report said that China's political model is now perceived as stronger than it has ever been at a time when the US political model is weakened and will end up with a moment of global reordering.
> 
> "*China has no intention to lead or replace any country in international affairs,*" Geng added.
> 
> http://en.people.cn/n3/2018/0104/c90000-9311553.html


I don’t want to sound cynical, but it’s almost impossible to predict the future intentions of countries, because we don’t even know who will be running China in the next 20 years.

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## katsung47

Spy agency rules US. 

The Feds(FBI) rule this country by extortion and intimidation. Many politicians committed sex crimes. Roy Moore unfortunately is pick up as the scapegoat to intimidate others, be obedient or otherwise be Moore likewise. The purpose is to push through new law - tax reform bill. Trump is the candidate of the Feds. So he is exempted from such accusations.


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## RabzonKhan

Trump’s doctor says he is in excellent health, and we’re supposed to believe that…. I mean, look at that overweight fat man, does he really look in excellent health, of course not.

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## Gomig-21

lol, Rabzonkhan. Sorry, even he should be exempt from body-shaming ......................................................................How about the size of that toilet! .
And that wrist watch is just a little bit too tight, me thinks.

*People are having a laugh at Trump's watch*






https://au.be.yahoo.com/style/fashi...umps-watch-is-too-tight-and-twitter-loves-it/

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## katsung47

Trump's Deputy Drug Czar Is A 24-Year-Old With A Flimsy Work History
HuffPost 
Dominique Mosbergen,HuffPost• January 22, 2018

A 24-year-old appointed to a top position in the White House drug policy office has come under scrutiny in recent days for his scanty résumé and lack of qualifications.

A new Washington Post report reveals that one of Taylor Weyeneth’s few previous jobs ended ignominiously. Weyeneth was “let go” from a New York law firm in 2015 because he didn’t show up to work, the paper reports.


yahoo/news/trump-apos-deputy-drug-czar-121016887.html


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## RabzonKhan

Trump and his Republican party, controls the Senate, the House, and the presidency, but blame the Democrats for the shutdown, damn losers!






Here’s what hypocrite Trump said during the 2013 government shutdown under Pres Obama, Trump gave an interview to the Fox and Friends, when he was asked who would be fired during the government shutdown, he replied, “Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top, I mean, problem starts from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the President’s the leader. And he’s got to get everybody in the room and he’s got to lead".

But now the “great negotiator” wants to blame the Democrats for the shutdown, the fact is, if he showed some leadership and "got to get everybody in the room", and of course ,stop lying, then there was a good chance there would have been no shutdown.






Karma’s a bitch and it will come back and bite you in the rear!

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> lol, Rabzonkhan. Sorry, even he should be exempt from body-shaming ......................................................................How about the size of that toilet! .
> And that wrist watch is just a little bit too tight, me thinks.
> 
> *People are having a laugh at Trump's watch*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://au.be.yahoo.com/style/fashi...umps-watch-is-too-tight-and-twitter-loves-it/


I agree with you, next time I’ll try to be more diplomatic. 

Here are some interesting facts about his “excellent” health. *Link:* He is 6.3 and weighs 239 pounds with body mass index of 29.9, which means he is overweight. Since last year, he’s gained three pounds, his cholesterol has increased from 169 (*Link* *2016*) to 223 and has LDL (bad) cholesterol has increased from 94 to 143. With those numbers he is at increased risk of heart attack.

He is taking 10 mg of Crestor and aspirin (cholesterol lowering drugs). His doctor says he’ll be increasing his dose of Crestor. Now the question is if he was in such a good health why would his doctor wants to increase his medication.

How can someone be in excellent health who does not exercise and eat junk food at the age of 71?

The best way to lower your LDL level is through diet, exercise and medication.

Trump does not exercise, in an interview to the Reuters, he said, walking would leave him on the course longer than he prefers “I don’t want to spend the time.” In other words, he choose to ride in a cart rather than walk. *Link*

and Mr “excellent health” likes to eat junk food:











Yes, I also notice that tiny watch, I thought he borrowed it from his daughter Ivanka.

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## ptldM3

RabzonKhan said:


> Shamelessly Trump once again degraded the office of the President, he is digging himself and the Republican party into a shithole, and just continues to undermine the standing of United States around the world, his disgusting behavior and racist comments are alienating and embarrassing our friends and are encouraging our adversaries.
> 
> View attachment 448462
> 
> 
> *Trump referred to Haiti and African nations as ‘shithole’ countries
> *
> by ALI VITALI, KASIE HUNT and FRANK THORP
> 
> WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump referred to Haiti and African nations as "shithole countries" during a meeting with a bipartisan group of senators at the White House, a Democratic aide briefed on Thursday's meeting told NBC News.
> 
> Trump's comments were first reported by The Washington Post, which said the nations referred to by Trump also included El Salvador.
> 
> The U.N. human rights office said the comments, if confirmed, were "shocking and shameful" and "racist," while Haiti's foreign minister summoned the U.S. Chargé d’Affaires Robin Diallo for clarification.
> 
> Two sources briefed on the conversation say that during the portion of the conversation about Haiti — which came at the top of the exchange that led to the “shithole” comment — the president questioned why Haitians should be given specific consideration.
> 
> “Why do we need more Haitians, take them out,” he said, according to sources. Someone else in the room responded: “Because if you do, it will be obvious why.” *Read more*





Prominent Liberals and media figures smear Russia as a race on a daily basis by calling us "scum" and claiming Russia can't produce anything but are offended by Trump calling a continent a shithole. Whites are barred from events and told they need to give minorities things, liberals print propaganda in school newspapers how whites need to die but..but Africa.


Back to Africa, its a beacon of democracy and opportunity. The world should aspire to be like Africans, they have contributed so much to humanity science, literature, mathematics, and engineering. Human rights and religious freedoms are second to none and the living standards are the highest in the world. 

Between African warlords, Islamic terrorists, modern slavery, dictators, AIDS, Ebola, malaria, starvation, droughts, corruption, and the worst human rights violations in the world I would say Trumps supposed comments were mild. 

I have met Africans that said Africa is trash.


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## RabzonKhan

*Analysis: Day of bombshells takes Mueller probe to critical point
*
Finally, inexorably, special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation has clawed all the way up to Donald Trump himself.

Now a foreboding moment looms for his presidency and for the nation.

A stunning barrage of revelations on Tuesday suggested that at least one strand of Mueller's Russia probe is racing toward its end game, emphasizing the gravity of the situation facing the White House and the potential vulnerability of the President.

Mueller's request to question Trump, *and news that his team has already interviewed fired FBI Director James Comey and Attorney General Jeff Sessions, indicate that the special counsel has a clear picture of where he is headed in what could turn into an obstruction of justice case, legal experts said.

"It's possible that Mueller is closing in on his determination about what obstruction looks like, whether it is a criminal offense in his mind, whether it is an impeachable offense, or whether it amounts to nothing," Michael Zeldin, a former senior aide to Mueller at the Justice Department, told CNN's Brooke Baldwin.*

Tuesday's bombshells came amid new signs that Trump is still pushing up against constitutional norms in his conduct toward judicial authorities usually seen as independent of the President.

*The current FBI Director Christopher Wray threatened to quit, a source familiar with the situation told CNN, after coming under pressure from Sessions, to clean out senior leadership figures dating from the Comey era who the President believes are biased against him. The development was first reported by Axios.*

The Washington Post reported that Trump had asked then acting FBI director Andrew McCabe who he voted for in the 2016 election in an introductory Oval Office meeting and criticized his wife's Democratic affiliation, in a move that infringed customary treatment of a civil servant.

And there are signs Rick Gates, the former Trump campaign staffer who pleaded not guilty in October to eight charges of money laundering and failing to register foreign lobbying and other business, may be ready to cooperate with Mueller, CNN's Katelyn Polantz reported Tuesday night.

And on a day of intense drama, efforts by Republicans to discredit the Russia probe gathered pace, as the White House said Trump was ready to declassify a memo written by GOP committee staff in the House claiming misconduct by FBI officials investigating the President.

Four Trump associates have so far been charged in the Mueller investigation, but there is still neither proof of wrongdoing by the President nor indications of the special counsel's eventual conclusions.

Yet the prospect of the President of the United States testifying to the investigation would lift the intrigue to an unprecedented level, and would be a spectacle not seen since Bill Clinton's grand jury appearance 20 years ago that led to his eventual impeachment over an affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky.

*The fact that Mueller's team has already spoken to Comey and Sessions and now wants to talk to the President suggests the investigation into whether Trump obstructed justice by asking the former FBI director to go easy on former national security adviser Michael Flynn and then fired him when he demurred, is at an advanced stage.* *CNN also reported last week that Trump's former top political adviser Steve Bannon had struck a deal to be interviewed by Mueller's prosecutors.
"It seems to indicate that the investigation is in its 11th hour," said Jens David Ohlin, a professor and vice dean at Cornell Law School.*

Ohlin said the seniority of those questioned points to Mueller reaching a defining moment at least in the obstruction of justice portion of an investigation that is also considering whether anyone in the Trump campaign broke the law by cooperating with a Russian election meddling effort.

"We are at the top of the heap politically with Steve Bannon. We are at the top of the heap in terms of law enforcement in terms of the attorney general and the former head of the FBI," said Ken Cuccinelli, Virginia's former Republican attorney general. *Read more*




ptldM3 said:


> *Prominent Liberals and media figures smear Russia as a race on a daily basis* by calling us "scum" and claiming Russia can't produce anything but are offended by Trump calling a continent a shithole.


Who are you referring to, any names? 

You can try to justify as much as you want, but what Trump said was disgusting, period.

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## RabzonKhan

It’s outrageous how Russia used every information-warfare dirty tricks to undermine our election and create confusion and dissent. But more outrageous is when Trump tries to defend Putin, just last November Trump met Putin at the APEC summit in Vietnam, Trump told reporters in his lying double-talk style that “every time he (Putin) sees me he says I didn’t do that and I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it. 


*Russians got tens of thousands of Americans to RSVP for their phony political events on Facebook *

The Washington Post 
Craig Timberg 17 hrs ago

*Russian operatives used Facebook to publicize 129 phony event announcements during the 2016 presidential campaign, drawing the attention of nearly 340,000 users -- many of whom said they were planning to attend -- according to a company document released by the Senate Intelligence Committee Thursday.*

It's not possible to know how often people gathered in response to the sham announcements, but the numbers highlight how Russian operatives were successful in prompting Americans to express a willingness to take action. *In some cases, Russians allegedly working in an office building in St. Petersburg motivated at least some people to mobilize behind various causes, a striking accomplishment for a foreign influence operation.*

*“Not only did they influence how people viewed Russian policy, they got people to take physical action. That’s unprecedented,” said Clinton Watts, a former FBI agent who studies Russian disinformation for the Foreign Policy Research Institute. “They just did it persistently, and they did it well.”*

Facebook gives groups the ability to announce events and solicit interest from users, who can register their intention to attend. Facebook, which along with other big tech giants sought to downplay the Russian activity for months, declined to disclose a list of the 129 events publicized by the operatives. The company has said the operatives were linked to the Internet Research Agency.

Previous disclosures by the company make clear that the operatives focused in their disinformation campaigns on sensitive social issues, including racial and religious controversies, gun rights, police violence, southern heritage and immigration.

*Facebook had previously disclosed details about a particular event highlighted by Russian-controlled accounts. A group called Heart of Texas, announced a rally to take place May 21, 2016, under the banner of “Stop Islamization of Texas.” A separate Russian-controlled group, United Muslims of America, publicized a competing rally to “Save Islamic Knowledge” at the same place and time, prompting two groups to face off in competing demonstrations in Houston — a sign of how Russians hoped to turn divisions into open conflict.*

The document, which includes written responses by Facebook to questions posed by members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, includes several revelations, including that there was some "overlap" between targeting of voters by Russian accounts and the campaign of Donald Trump, though Facebook calls this overlap "insignificant" in the document -- echoing remarks made in a Nov. 1 hearing by the company's general counsel Colin Stretch.

Facebook in its written response did not directly answer a question about whether it has found evidence that Russians sought to meddle last year's state elections in Virginia and New Jersey. But a spokesman said Thursday night that the company has not yet seen any sign of Russian influence during those campaigns.

The revelation about the events publicized on Facebook came in response to a question by Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) about the subject. The company wrote in the document released Thursday that, a "A total of 129 events were created across 13 IRA Pages. Approximately 338,300 unique accounts viewed these events. About 25,800 accounts marked that they were interested in an event, and about 62,500 marked that they were going to an event. We do not have data about the realization of these events." *Link*

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## ptldM3

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump’s doctor says he is in excellent health, and we’re supposed to believe that…. I mean, look at that overweight fat man, does he really look in excellent health, of course not.
> 
> View attachment 448763
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 448765





Your butthurt is strong. Over a year later and you're still pouting and insulting as if it's going to change anything. You leftists are laughable, the entire Trump Collusion conspiracies have fallen apart so now you resort to attacking Trumps weight, health, diet, size, skin color, and hair color.

Then you leftists attack Russia (in the most dispicle ways) white men, and Christianity.


Here use some of this you leftists race baiter. It might releave that burn.

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## katsung47

The World's Ugliest American

Richard North Patterson,HuffPost• January 23, 2018

One year into the Trump administration, as our president prepares for his trip to address the annual World Economic Forum in Davos, here is the dynamic abroad: No foreign enemy could have degraded America’s global standing so completely in so short a time.

In word and deed, Donald Trump personifies the American ignoramus abroad. He insults foreign leaders in tweets, then melts in their presence. He switches positions based on personal flattery. He parades his ignorance of geopolitics. His erratic behavior and bellicose boasts provoke alarm in a nuclear age.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/world-apos-ugliest-american-104716003.html

------------------


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## katsung47

FBI Agent Trump Accused Of 'Treason' Wrote Letter That Helped Get Trump Elected

Paige Lavender,HuffPost• January 31, 2018

WASHINGTON ? FBI agent Peter Strzok helped draft a letter that, in the final days of the 2016 presidential campaign, signaled the re-opening of a probe into Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton’s emails, CNN reported Wednesday.

Strzok is one of the FBI agents whom some Republicans have accused of scheming to undermine President Donald Trump ahead of the 2016 election. He worked on both the Clinton probe as well as the Russia probe when it was in its early stages, and later joined special counsel Robert Mueller’s team.

The letter Strzok helped draft, sent to Congress by then-FBI Director James Comey on Oct. 28 ? days ahead of the 2016 election ? dealt a blow to Clinton, whom Trump repeatedly attacked for using a personal email while serving as secretary of state. Comey penned another letter just before the election saying no new relevant information was found, and stood by the FBI’s prior decision not to recommend charges

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-agent-trump-accused-apos-220323734.

I think that is done by the real "secret society" of the FBI. 

1. Everybody has his own politic view. So do Strzok and Page. Must they have to support Donald Trump? Did they commit any crime in that Trump Russian gate investigation team?

2. It's more like a sting project as the FBI used to do. Strzok and Page could be false flag embedded in that team to sabotage "anti-Trump" plot. They were monitored. Their email were intercepted. As I know the culture of the FBI is anti-Clinton, and Trump is their representative. see #930. 

3. The articles is to cut relationship between Trump and the FBI when Trump became notorious that he won the election by the help of Russians.


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## Pepsi Cola

Trump's trump card is Hilary's investigation, because Trump knows that Hilary definitely did violated the law and he can prosecute her. 

The reason why he waited this long to focus on the Hilary's investigation, even though he said that it would be one of the first thing he would pursue, is because the Russian investigation is just starting to zero down on him. He waited this long, because he wants to make sure he has something to counter when he's in trouble. And frankly, he's currently in big trouble.

Trump's time in the white house is numbered.


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## RabzonKhan

Trump’s State of the Union address was as usual full of exaggerations, distortions, boasting and outright lies. 











Here are few examples:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/959034299222843394
*THE FACTS:* Not the highest in history. Trump's TV viewership as measured by Nielsen (45.6 million, as he said) trailed that for first State of the Union speeches by Barack Obama (48 million), George W. Bush (51.7 million) and Bill Clinton (46.8 million). 

*TRUMP:* "We've signed into law the biggest tax cuts and reforms in American history." — remarks Thursday to Republican lawmakers' retreat.

*THE FACTS:* No. The December tax overhaul ranks behind Ronald Reagan's in the early 1980s, post-World War II tax cuts and at least several more. He made the same claim Tuesday night and countless times before that.

An analysis by the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget in the fall put Trump's package as the eighth biggest since 1918. 

*TRUMP:* "We are now very proudly an exporter of energy to the world."

*THE FACTS:* There's nothing new in that. The U.S. has long exported all sorts of energy, while importing even more. If Trump meant that the U.S. has become a net exporter of energy, he's rushing things along. The U.S. Energy Information Administration projects that the U.S. will become a net energy exporter in the next decade, primarily because of a boom in oil and gas production that began before Trump's presidency. 

*TRUMP:* "Many car companies are now building and expanding plants in the United States, something we haven't seen for decades."

*THE FACTS:* He's wrong about recent decades. The auto industry has regularly been opening and expanding factories since before Trump became president. Toyota opened its Mississippi factory in 2011. Hyundai's plant in Alabama dates to 2005. In 2010, Tesla fully acquired and updated an old factory to produce its electric vehicles.

*Trump* twice boasted that the U.S. image abroad has improved under his leadership.

“As we rebuild America’s strength and confidence at home, we are also restoring our strength and standing abroad,” Trump said. He later said the U.S. has strengthened its “friendships all around the world.”

*THE FACTS:* the U.S. image abroad has suffered under Trump, particularly among its allies.

Gallup Poll released a poll on Jan. 18 that found “the image of U.S. leadership is weaker worldwide than it was under his two predecessors.” The median approval of U.S. leadership fell to a “new low” of 30 percent, down from 48 percent in 2016, across 134 countries and areas, according to Gallup.

Last spring, a Pew Research Center survey of 37 countries reported “a global median of 49% hold a favorable view of the U.S,” down 15 percentage points from the end of the Obama presidency.

Among U.S. neighbors, Pew’s polling found 30 percent of Mexicans viewed the U.S. favorably, down by a full 36 percentage points under Trump, and only 43 percent of Canadians viewed the U.S. favorably, down 22 percentage points. Among NATO allies, the U.S. favorability rating dropped 22 points among Germans, 17 points among the French, 28 points among the Dutch, and 11 points among the British.

The only big improvement was in Russia, where 41 percent of Russians view the U.S. favorably, an increase of 26 points under Trump, according to Pew.

Sources: *AP FACT CHECK and Fact Check ORG*




ptldM3 said:


> You leftists are laughable, the entire Trump Collusion conspiracies have fallen apart


I don’t know what you’re smoking, but it’s quite clear that the investigation is not winding down.

So far, Mueller has indicted former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort, Richard Gates, George Papadopoulos a Trump campaign staffer and his former national security adviser Michael Flynn. Michael Flynn and George Papadopoulos have both pleaded guilty to charges and are cooperating with Mueller’s investigation.

There are reports that Mark Carollo, a former spokesperson for Trump’s legal team has agreed to be interviewed by Mueller. Carollo has information on Trump’s role in drafting his son’s false statement about a Trump Tower meeting between Trump campaign and a Russian agent.

Last November, Mueller hired prosecutor Ryan Dickey, a senior lawyer in the Justice Department’s computer crime with significant cybercrime expertise to his team.

And most importantly, Mueller has asked Trump for an interview, now that’s going to be very interesting. In my opinion, lying Trump is no match to an experienced investigator like Mueller.

These developments clearly contradict your views, and these are just a few examples.



> so now you resort to attacking Trumps weight, health, diet, size, skin color, and hair color.


I was just debunking “Trump is in excellent health” nonsense of his doctor.



> Then you leftists attack Russia (in the most dispicle ways) white men, and Christianity.


It’s not only the leftists, but majority of Americans have negative views of Putin’s Russia.

Enjoy:
*
Putin's Already Negative U.S. Image Worsens*

Putin’s image in U.S 74% unfavourable – 13% favourable. *Source*

*Senate approves sanctions bill to punish Russia for meddling*

The Republican-led Senate voted decisively to punish Moscow for interfering in the 2016 election by approving a wide-ranging sanctions package that targets key sectors of Russia’s economy and individuals who carried out cyber attacks.

Senators on Wednesday passed the bipartisan sanctions legislation *97-2,* underscoring broad support among Republicans and Democrats for rebuking Russia after U.S. intelligence agencies determined Moscow had deliberately interfered in the presidential campaign. Source

*House Decisively Passes Sanctions Bill Curbing Trump's Power*

Eager to punish Russia for meddling in the 2016 election, the House on Tuesday overwhelmingly backed a new package of sanctions against Moscow that prohibits President Donald Trump from waiving the penalties without first getting permission from Congress.

Lawmakers passed the legislation, *419-3*. Source

“White men, and Christianity”? Stop, with your BS Russian propaganda.

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## RabzonKhan

Hooray, the Democrats just flipped their 35th State legislative seat since Trump assumed the presidency. I’m loving it! 

In 2016 presidential election Trump won the deep-red Missouri state House district by 28 points, on Tuesday the Democrat won with a 31-point swing.

This gives me hope for the November 6, 2018 midterm elections, around 33 Senate seats, all 435 House seats and 36 governorships are up for election.

If the Democrats win control of either the House of representative or the Senate they will be able to put a stop to Trump’s dangerous legislative agenda.




*Democrats flip deep-red Missouri state House seat, signal problems for GOP*

Lukas Mikelionis 2/7/2018 Fox News





Provided by Fox News Democrat Mike Revis won the special election in Missouri on Tuesday, flipping a deep-red seat.

Democrats flipped a Missouri House seat in Tuesday’s special election in a district that President Trump won by 28 points in 2016, signaling problems for the GOP ahead of the 2018 midterm elections.

Democrat Mike Revis won the election with nearly 52 percent of the vote while Republican David Linton received 48 percent. Tuesday’s election marks a 31-point swing to Democrats in the district compared to the 2016 presidential election.

“Representative-elect Mike Revis’s victory tonight will undoubtedly send another shockwave through the GOP as we continue to run the best candidates focused on addressing local issues and improving their neighbors’ quality of life,” Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee Executive Director Jessica Post said in a statement.

“The DLCC continues to be impressed by our dedicated and talented slate of candidates, who have stepped up to run in these precedent-setting special elections."

*Revis, a 27-year-old procurement manager, ran on a platform as a centrist Democrat with particular focus on education, access to health care and support for the labor community, The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported.*

State Rep. Peter Merideth, D-St. Louis, told the newspaper that Revis’ win was “enormous” and made possible only due to “a lot of grass-roots support and a hardworking, authentic moderate candidate from his community.” 

*The election result might signal the changing tide for the GOP that is heading into the midterm elections this year against a highly-mobilized Democratic opposition united against the president.*

In December, embattled Republican Roy Moore lost a deep-red Senate seat in Alabama to Democrat Doug Jones, making him the first Democrat in a decade to win any statewide office in the state.

*Last month, Democrat Patty Schachtner flipped a state Senate seat in Wisconsin that had been held by Republicans since the start of the century in a district that Trump carried by 17 points in the presidential election*. *Read more*

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## Mugwop



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## RabzonKhan

I’m really very impressed, the 77-year-old Democrat House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi sets record with 8 hour and 7 minutes long speech on the House floor. She has broken a record set in 1909 by a Rep from Missouri, who spoke for 5 hours and 15 minutes. I’m sure Trump will be jealous.




*Pelosi stages 8-hour speech to push for vote for 'dreamers'






*
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi staged a record-breaking, eight-hour speech Wednesday in an attempt to force a House vote on protections for the "Dreamer" immigrants — and to prove to an increasingly angry wing of progressives and activists that she has done all she could.

Wearing four-inch heels and forgoing any breaks, Pelosi spent much of the rare talkathon reading personal letters from the young immigrants whose temporary protection from deportation is set to expire next month. The California Democrat quoted from the Bible and Pope Francis, as Democrats took turns sitting behind her in support. The Office of the House Historian said it was the longest continuous speech in the chamber on record. *Read more*

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


My blood boils whenever I read something like this. And damn, so far Trump has done nothing substantial to punish Russia and have been playing delaying tactics to implement new sanctions on Russia approved by the Congress. This will only encourage the Russians to continue with their nefarious games.

*DHS cyber chief: Russia 'successfully penetrated' some state voter rolls
*
*BY **BRETT SAMUELS **- *02/07/18

A U.S. cybersecurity official said Wednesday that Russia "successfully penetrated" the voter rolls in a small number of states in 2016.

Jeanette Manfra, the head of cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), told NBC News that Russia targeted 21 states and “an exceptionally small number of them were actually successfully penetrated.”

DHS previously notified the 21 states that Russia had attempted to hack their elections systems before the 2016 election.

It was Manfra who first revealed to the Senate Intelligence Committee last June that the states had their systems targeted by Russian hackers ahead of the election.

It was previously known that voter registration databases in Arizona and Illinois were breached by hackers. Alabama, California, Colorado, Wisconsin and Florida are among the other states that have confirmed they were targeted.

Officials told NBC there is no evidence any of the voter rolls were altered in any way. 

Homeland Security formally notified election officials in the states that were targeted. Officials said then that most of the targeting amounted to mere preparations for hacking, such as probing for vulnerabilities.

The targeting was part of a broader effort by Moscow to meddle in the presidential election, according to the U.S. intelligence community. The systems targeted were not involved in vote tallying.

The revelations have sparked widespread fears that Russia or another foreign actor could seek to interfere in future elections using cyberattacks and other tactics.

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson warned Tuesday that Russia is already attempting to meddle in the U.S. midterm elections this year.

But Manfra told The Hill in a recent interview that, while she is unaware of any credible targeting efforts related to the 2018 midterm elections, she remains worried about the threat.

“I will always be worried about it and it is always something that entities are going to look to influence our democratic processes,” she said. “As a country, we should be in a position to counter that.”

The department is providing vulnerability tests and other services to states looking to shore up the cybersecurity of their election systems ahead of future votes, as part of its new designation of voting systems as critical infrastructure.

Homeland Security is also working with state election officials to share information on cyber threats. *Source*

*
*


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Trump poll numbers up

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2018/02/president_trumps_latest_approv.html


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> I’m really very impressed, the 77-year-old Democrat House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi sets record with 8 hour and 7 minutes long speech on the House floor. She has broken a record set in 1909 by a Rep from Missouri, who spoke for 5 hours and 15 minutes. I’m sure Trump will be jealous.



No question. She doesn't look 77 either. And how can anyone talk about anything for 8 hours?! I even marvel at radio talk-show hosts who have 4 hour shows on a daily basis but at least with that there are new, daily news topics and they have a lot of material to discuss etc. This here is really something, even though it is about one of the most pertinent issues the US government is facing, that's a lot of time.

I hope the Dems hold their ground against the wall in exchange for the Dreamers and put the onus on the Republicans to make the decision. Even though immigration laws need serious work and I understand that, still, to give up the wall which was falsely promised to be paid for by Mexico for a deal on the Dreamers is a no-no IMO. Not to mention the negative environmental impacts of that thing, fighting against it being a condition for the Dreamers is the best strategy.

Personally, I would tell the Republicans you can have a section of the wall in the troubled Texas areas only if Mexico pays for it as promised and that would be the only thing I'd give up in exchange to the Dreamers. Then it would be pretty tough for the Republicans -- and the president -- to end DACA because they didn't get the wall and the fallout of that decision will be on them, but particularly the head baboon.

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## katsung47

Trump's "Fake news award" is an attempt to wipe out the news agency which doesn't obey to his rule. It's easy to create a news with flaw, then feed it to an agency he doesn't like. When the news agency swallow the bait, then it became an "enemy of people". Or Trump just denies what he has said before, that's something he always does.


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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/963010628020527105
And as usual, Trump and the White House were caught lying:

FBI Director Christopher Wray on Tuesday contradicted the White House version of events surrounding the background check for a former top aide accused of domestic abuse by two ex-wives, triggering more disarray around the controversy.

Wray, in testimony on Capitol Hill, said the agency in late July completed a background check for security clearance for former White House staff secretary Rob Porter, who resigned a week ago amid allegations of abuse from two former wives.

Wray's comments conflict with the White House assertion that the Federal Bureau of Investigation and intelligence agencies had not completed investigations into Porter. White House officials had no immediate explanation.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What is wrong with the Republicans, how low are they going to go? Trump, Roy Moore, Joe Arpaio and now this Nazi, he’s running unopposed for a Republican nomination to Congress.








Gomig-21 said:


> No question. She doesn't look 77 either. And how can anyone talk about anything for 8 hours?! I even marvel at radio talk-show hosts who have 4 hour shows on a daily basis but at least with that there are new, daily news topics and they have a lot of material to discuss etc. This here is really something, even though it is about one of the most pertinent issues the US government is facing, that's a lot of time.
> 
> I hope the Dems hold their ground against the wall in exchange for the Dreamers and put the onus on the Republicans to make the decision. Even though immigration laws need serious work and I understand that, still, to give up the wall which was falsely promised to be paid for by Mexico for a deal on the Dreamers is a no-no IMO. Not to mention the negative environmental impacts of that thing, fighting against it being a condition for the Dreamers is the best strategy.
> 
> Personally, I would tell the Republicans you can have a section of the wall in the troubled Texas areas only if Mexico pays for it as promised and that would be the only thing I'd give up in exchange to the Dreamers. Then it would be pretty tough for the Republicans -- and the president -- to end DACA because they didn't get the wall and the fallout of that decision will be on them, but particularly the head baboon.


I agree. I damn still remember how Trump repeatedly used to bragged that he will “have Mexico pay for that wall, mark my words.” And there were many idiots who really believed him. In many of his rallies he’ll ask, “who’s going to pay for the wall?” and the fools will shout “Mexico”. 

And now he wants $ 25 billion to build that useless wall, even the US border patrol does not necessarily see the need for a wall. In a 2016 internal US government study the border patrol called for the creation of a virtual wall and requested 23 more miles of fences, better radios and more aerial drones, according to an unpublished US government study that influences budget requests. Source

Poll after poll has shown that most American are opposed to the wall, in a recent national poll, voters oppose 59 – 37% building a wall along the border with Mexico. Opposition jumps to 65 – 33% in a question noting that Trump has asked Congress for 25 billion for the wall. Source

On the other hand, majority of Americans support Dreamers, in a recent poll 81 – 14% support Dreamers to stay in the U.S. and eventually apply for citizenship. Support for them is strong among every party, gender, education, age and racial group. Source

And as you rightly pointed out, on these two issues, Trump and the Republican are in a tough situation and the Democrats have an upper hand, rather than offer concessions from a position of weakness, they instead should negotiate from a position of strength.

November 2018 is a critical election year, I hope, the Democrats would take extra caution not hand over any propaganda victories to Trump and the Republicans that they can use as a talking point for November election.



undertakerwwefan said:


> Trump poll numbers up
> 
> http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2018/02/president_trumps_latest_approv.html


Trump still is the most unpopular president at the 1-year mark.

*PRESIDENT* *INAUGURATION YEAR* *APPROVE* *DISAPPROVE* *NET APPROVAL:
*
John Kennedy 1961 79% 10% +69

George W. Bush 2001 81 13 +68

George H.W. Bush 1989 78 11 +67

Lyndon Johnson 1963 74 15 +59

Dwight Eisenhower 1953 71 18 +53

Richard Nixon 1969 60 23 +38

Jimmy Carter 1977 55 27 +28

Bill Clinton 1993 57 34 +22

Harry Truman 1945 50 35 +15

Ronald Reagan 1981 49 40 +9

Barack Obama 2009 50 43 +7

Gerald Ford 1974 44 39 +5

Donald Trump 2017 40 55 -15

Average without Trump 62 26 +37

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## RabzonKhan

*Breaking News:* special counsel Robert Mueller has indicted 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities for interfering in the U.S. election.

The indictment says that Russian paid US persons to participate in rallies supporting Donald Trump. One American was even paid by the Russians to dress up as Hillary Clinton in a prison uniform.

It also says that a Russian organisation called the Internet research agency sought to wage information warfare against the United States by using fictitious American personas and social media platforms and other Internet based media.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RabzonKhan said:


> *Breaking News:* special counsel Robert Mueller has indicted 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities for interfering in the U.S. election.
> 
> The indictment says that Russian paid US persons to participate in rallies supporting Donald Trump. One American was even paid by the Russians to dress up as Hillary Clinton in a prison uniform.
> 
> It also says that a Russian organisation called the Internet research agency sought to wage information warfare against the United States by using fictitious American personas and social media platforms and other Internet based media.



No names. Fake. I have seen Mexican flags at anti Trump rallies. That's not fake.


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## RabzonKhan

*U.S. v. Internet Research Agency, et al (1:18-cr-32, District of Columbia)*

A federal grand jury in the District of Columbia returned an indictment on Feb. 16, 2018, against 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities accused of violating U.S. criminal laws in order to interfere with U.S. elections and political processes. The indictment charges all of the defendants with conspiracy to defraud the United States, three defendants with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and bank fraud, and five defendants with aggravated identity theft.

*Indictment* *Link*



undertakerwwefan said:


> No names. Fake. I have seen Mexican flags at anti Trump rallies. That's not fake.


Don’t jump to conclusions, read the indictment.





*Here are some of the most important quotes from Mueller's indictment of Russians*

*CNBC*

Special counsel Robert Mueller on Friday released a surprise indictment of 13 Russian individuals and three Russian entities alleged to have sown discord through "information warfare" in then-candidate Donald Trump's favor during the 2016 presidential election.

The 37-page document outlines specific ways in which Russia, through numerous individuals and organizations, sought to influence the election — from abroad, online and on U.S. soil.

*Here are some of the most important quotes:*



The so-called Internet Research Agency, a Russian corporate entity registered in July 2013, "sought, in part, to conduct what it called 'information warfare against the United States of America' through fictitious U.S. personas on social media platforms and other Internet-based media.'"
The Internet Research Agency "focused on the U.S. population and conducted operations on social media platforms such as YouTube, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter."
"By in or around May 2014, the organization's strategy included interfering with the 2016 U.S. presidential election, with the stated goal of 'spread[ing] distrust towards the candidates and the political system in general.'"
*The Russian entity "had a strategic goal to sow discord in the U.S. political system, including the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Defendants posted derogatory information about a number of candidates, and by early to mid-2016, Defendants' operations included supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump ('Trump Campaign') and disparaging Hillary Clinton."*
The defendants sought disruption by staging events for and against Trump after the election: "After the election of Donald Trump in or around November 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators used false U.S. personas to organize and coordinate U.S. political rallies in support of then president-elect Trump, while simultaneously using other false U.S. personas to organize and coordinate U.S. political rallies protesting the results of the 2016 U.S. presidential election."
It goes on: "For example, in or around November 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators organized a rally in New York through one organization-controlled group designed to 'show your support for President-Elect Donald Trump' held on or about November 12, 2016. At the same time, Defendants and their co-conspirators, through another organization-controlled group, organized a rally in New York called 'Trump is NOT my President' held on or about November 12, 2016. Similarly, Defendants and their co-conspirators organized a rally entitled 'Charlotte Against Trump' in Charlotte, North Carolina, held on or about November 19, 2016."
*The defendants attempted to discourage African-American turnout in the election: "In or around the latter half of 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators, through their organization-controlled personas, began to encourage U.S. minority groups not to vote in the 2016 U.S. presidential election or to vote for a third-party U.S. presidential candidate."*
The entity allegedly used an account on Instagram called "Woke Blacks" to post: "'[A] particular hype and hatred for Trump is misleading the people and forcing Blacks to vote Killary. We cannot resort to the lesser of two devils. Then we'd surely be better off without voting AT ALL.'"
The defendants allegedly stole Americans' identities to open online payment accounts — an allegation appearing to connect the Russians with the actions of Richard Pinedo, who was also indicted separately by the special counsel on Friday. "Defendants and their co-conspirators also used, without lawful authority, the social security numbers, home addresses, and birth dates of real U.S. persons to open accounts at PayPal, a digital payments company...[they] purchased credit card and bank account numbers from online sellers for the unlawful purpose of evading security measures at PayPal..."
They also allegedly used cryptocurrency exchanges to maintain their accounts: "Additionally, and in order to maintain their accounts at PayPal and elsewhere, including online cryptocurrency exchanges, Defendants and their co-conspirators purchased and obtained false identification documents, including fake U.S. driver's licenses."
The indictment describes Trump campaign officials who communicated with the Russians as "unwitting" in the defendants' plans: "Some defendants, posing as U.S. persons and without revealing their Russian association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities."
_This is breaking news. Please check back for updates._

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## RabzonKhan

*



*

*Robert Mueller just made it impossible for Trump to call the special counsel probe a 'total hoax'*

Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large

(CNN)On Friday afternoon, the Justice Department announced that special counsel Robert Mueller had indicted 13 Russian nationals for their roles in attempted meddling in the 2016 election.

Most of these people do not live in the United States, and you can bet your bottom dollar that Russia won't be extraditing them any time soon. But that's not the point.
The point is this: The indictments of a baker's dozen of Russians gives us a very clear window into not only the depth and breadth of the Mueller investigation, but also makes crystal clear what the Russians wanted in the 2016 election and the elaborate measures they undertook to make it happen.

This paragraph stands out:


_"Defendant ORGANIZATION had a strategic goal to sow discord in the U.S. political system, including the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Defendants posted derogatory information about a number of candidates, and by early to mid-2016, Defendants' operations included supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump ("Trump Campaign") and disparaging Hillary Clinton. Defendants made various expenditures to carry out those activities, including buying political advertisements on social media in the names of U.S. persons and entities. Defendants also staged political rallies inside the United States, and while posing as U.S. grassroots entities and U.S. persons, and without revealing their Russian identities and ORGANIZATION affiliation, solicited and compensated real U.S. persons to promote or disparage candidates. Some Defendants, posing as U.S. persons and without revealing their Russian association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities."_

OK. So what we know from that paragraph of the charging documents, which you can read in full here, is this:

By "early to mid-2016," Russians had decided to use whatever means at their disposal to help Donald Trump win.
The Russians bought political ads on social media sites and organized political rallies to achieve those goals.
Russians, disguising their identities, "communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump campaign" in an attempt to "coordinate political activities."
None of that is a smoking gun of collusion.
"Unwitting" members of Trumpworld working with Russians, who didn't identify themselves as Russians, is not the same as a willful effort on behalf of members of the Trump campaign to actively collude with the Russian government.

But what this latest set of indictments proves beyond a shadow of a doubt is that, yes, Russia staged an aggressive and elaborate effort to influence the 2016 election.

This was a multi-pronged campaign -- social media, in-person meetings, political rallies -- by the Russians to beat Hillary Clinton and elect Donald Trump. It employed hundreds of people.
That analysis, of course, jibes with the unanimous conclusion of the intelligence community in 2017 that Russia actively sought to influence the 2016 election in support of Trump.
What it runs directly counter to is Trump's ongoing -- and persistent -- attempts to cast the entire special counsel investigation as nothing more than a politically motivated sideshow. *Read more


*

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## RabzonKhan

Since special counsel Mueller indicted 13 Russians and three of their entities, Trump has gone on a Twitter-storm, reading some of his tweets reminds me of the famous Urdu proverb, chor ke daari mein tinka (a guilty conscious needs no accuser). 

Trump has not altered a single word against the Russians, who used all kind of dirty tricks to undermine our election process, or given any hint how he plans to protect our coming elections from such attacks in the future? In fact, he has tried everything to undermine Mueller’s investigation.

Something is damn very fishy, what is he hiding, what has he done, what Putin has on him?

Here are some of his tweets:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/964594780088033282

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/965075589274177536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/965079126829871104


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RabzonKhan said:


> Since special counsel Mueller indicted 13 Russians and three of their entities, Trump has gone on a Twitter-storm, reading some of his tweets reminds me of the famous Urdu proverb, chor ke daari mein tinka (a guilty conscious needs no accuser).
> 
> Trump has not altered a single word against the Russians, who used all kind of dirty tricks to undermine our election process, or given any hint how he plans to protect our coming elections from such attacks in the future? In fact, he has tried everything to undermine Mueller’s investigation.
> 
> Something is damn very fishy, what is he hiding, what has he done, what Putin has on him?
> 
> Here are some of his tweets:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/964594780088033282
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/965075589274177536
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/965079126829871104



13 Russian punks with no ties to the Russian government. I bet hundreds of Chinese meddled in the US election. That's okay. Because there is no trade between Russia and the US while there is trade between China and the US.

Out of 150 million Russians, you think NO Russian messed with election? I call that bull.


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## RabzonKhan

BREAKING FEB 20 2018


*Mueller charges lawyer Alex van der Zwaan, oligarch’s son-in-law*

by KEN DILANIAN, PETE WILLIAMS, TOM WINTER, DANIEL ARKIN and TRACY CONNOR

Special counsel Robert Mueller has filed a new charge against an attorney — the son-in-law of a Ukranian-Russian oligarch named in the controversial Donald Trump dossier — who is accused of lying to investigators in the Russia investigation.

Alex van der Zwaan was charged with making false statements about his communications with former Trump campaign aide Rick Gates, according to a court document obtained by NBC News. He is expected to plead guilty Tuesday afternoon.

Gates and his longtime business associate, former Trump campaign chief Paul Manafort, were indicted in October on charges of money laundering, conspiracy and other offenses tied to their lobbying on behalf of Ukrainian political figures.

Van der Zwann worked in the London office of international law firm Skadden, Arps, Slate Meagher & Flom for a decade. The firm said it fired him last year and has been cooperating with Mueller, who is investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election and possible links to the Trump campaign. *Read more*



RabzonKhan said:


> Since special counsel Mueller indicted 13 Russians and three of their entities, Trump has gone on a Twitter-storm, reading some of his tweets reminds me of the famous Urdu proverb, chor ke daari mein tinka (a guilty conscious needs no accuser).
> 
> Trump has not altered a single word against the Russians, who used all kind of dirty tricks to undermine our election process, or given any hint how he plans to protect our coming elections from such attacks in the future? In fact, he has tried everything to undermine Mueller’s investigation.
> 
> Something is damn very fishy, what is he hiding, what has he done, what Putin has on him?
> 
> Here are some of his tweets:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/964594780088033282
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/965075589274177536
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/965079126829871104


That’s almost exactly what I said. Shepard Smith of Fox News criticized Trump for not condemning Putin’s Russia.

*Shepard Smith goes after Trump for not condemning Russia in tweetstorm*

Fox News host Shepard Smith slammed President Trump on Monday for failing to condemn Moscow but instead attacking Democrats and the FBI after more than a dozen Russians were indicted for election interference.

"The president spent the weekend defending himself, misrepresenting the truth and attacking others from his phone in Florida," Smith said "Shepard Smith Reporting."

Smith noted that Trump attacked the Department of Justice, the FBI, national security adviser H.R. McMaster, as well as Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), former President Obama and Oprah Winfrey.


*"He did not attack Vladimir Putin or Russia, nor did he express concern that the Russians attacked the United States. Nor did he pledge in any way to put measures in place to stop future attacks," Smith said.*

Smith also highlighted Trump's tweet claiming that he "never said Russia did not meddle in the election."

"But he reality is the president has questioned the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election over, and over, and over again," the Fox News host said.

He noted Trump's past tweets calling the probe into Russian election interference "a hoax" and the president saying he believed Russian President Vladimir Putin when Putin said Russia didn't meddle in the election.

"The president's spokespersons have been on television denouncing the meddling, the president has not. Not once, not on camera, not on Twitter, not anywhere," Smith said. *Read more*

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

It's be pretty surprising if out of 150 MILLION Russians not a SINGLE one of them meddled in the US election. That said, the Russian government is not responsible for the deeds of its citizens. They are free to do anything unless they break Russian law. Thousands of Russian citizens joined Islamic State. That does not mean the Russian government supports Islamic State. Government and private citizens. Totally different things.

BTW, Obama personally flew to Britain before Brexit to meddle in Brexit. Now THAT is unacceptable for a head of state.


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## RabzonKhan

undertakerwwefan said:


> It's be pretty surprising if out of 150 MILLION Russians not a SINGLE one of them meddled in the US election. That said, the Russian government is not responsible for the deeds of its citizens. They are free to do anything unless they break Russian law. Thousands of Russian citizens joined Islamic State. That does not mean the Russian government supports Islamic State. Government and private citizens. Totally different things.
> 
> BTW, Obama personally flew to Britain before Brexit to meddle in Brexit. Now THAT is unacceptable for a head of state.


The indictment of Internet Research Agency (IRA), also known as troll farm is a well-known Russian government linked organization. Yevgeny Prigozhin, who is one of 13 Russians named in indictment was charge of IRA operations, the man is also known as Putin’s Chef. Outsourcing cyber espionage is a tactic used by Putin’s Russia to create plausible – deniability.






Yevgeny Prigozhin, left, one of 13 Russians named in Mueller’s indictment, serves dinner to Vladimir Putin. Photograph: Reuters

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RabzonKhan said:


> Shepard Smith goes after Trump for not condemning Russia in tweetstorm



Love trumps hate.


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## RabzonKhan

*Opinions | Trump is ignoring the worst attack on America since 9/11 *

The Washington Post 
Max Boot

*Imagine if, after 9/11, the president had said that the World Trade Center and Pentagon could have been attacked by “China” or “lots of other people.” Imagine if he had dismissed claims of al-Qaeda’s responsibility as a “hoax” and said that he “really” believed Osama bin Laden’s denials. Imagine if he saw the attack primarily as a political embarrassment to be minimized rather than as a national security threat to be combated. Imagine if he threatened to fire the investigators trying to find out what happened. *

*Imagine, moreover, if the president refused to appoint a commission to study how to safeguard America. Imagine if, as a result, we did not harden cockpit doors. If we did not create a Transportation Security Administration and a Department of Homeland Security. If we did not lower barriers between law enforcement and intelligence. If we did not pass a USA Patriot Act to enhance surveillance. And if we did not take myriad other steps to prevent another 9/11. *

*That’s roughly where we stand after the second-worst foreign attack on America in the past two decades. The Russian subversion of the 2016 election did not, to be sure, kill nearly 3,000 people. But its longer-term impact may be even more corrosive by undermining faith in our democracy.*

The evidence of Russian meddling became “incontrovertible,” in the word of national security adviser H.R. McMaster, after special counsel Robert S. Mueller III indicted 13 Russians and three Russian organizations on Friday for taking part in this operation. “Defendants’ operations included supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump (‘Trump Campaign’) and disparaging Hillary Clinton,” the indictment charges.

*Yet in a disturbing weekend tweetstorm, President Trump attacked the FBI, Democrats, even McMaster — anyone but the Russians.* He sought to minimize the impact of the Kremlin’s intrusion, tweeting: “The results of the election were not impacted. The Trump campaign did nothing wrong - no collusion!” Actually, there’s plenty of evidence of collusion, including the infamous June 2016 meeting that Trump’s son, son-in-law and campaign manager held with Russian representatives who promised to “incriminate” Hillary Clinton. 

*There is also considerable evidence that the Kremlin impacted the election, which was decided by fewer than 80,000 votes in three states. Trump must have thought the Russian operation was significant because he mentioned its handiwork — the release of Democratic Party documents via WikiLeaks — 137 times in the final month of the campaign. On top of that, Russian propaganda reached at least 126 million Americans via Facebook alone.*

The onslaught did not end in 2016. Russian trolls have continued promoting hashtags such as #ReleaseTheMemo to sow dissension and division. Director of National Intelligence Daniel Coats just testified that Russia “views the 2018 U.S. midterm elections as a potential target for Russian influence operations.” Yet Trump has never convened a Cabinet meeting to address this threat and has resisted implementing sanctions passed by Congress. 

The president’s obstructionism makes it impossible to appoint an 11/8 Commission to study this cyber-assault and to recommend responses. Various agencies, such as the FBI, are trying to combat the Russians on their own, but there is no coordinated response. 

Much of the work has been left to social media platforms such as Google, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram and Twitter that had to be dragged kicking and screaming into revealing the extent of Russian penetration, because they don’t want to lose ad revenue and users. Their apathy was underscored by a Friday tweet from Facebook vice president Rob Goldman that was eagerly quoted by Trump himself: “Most of the coverage of Russian meddling involves their attempt to effect the outcome of the 2016 US election. I have seen all of the Russian ads and I can say very definitively that swaying the election was *NOT* the main goal.” That may be technically accurate as it applies to Facebook ads, but it is also highly deceptive. These ads were only a small part of a vast Russian operation utilizing hackers and trolls that, as Mueller noted, was designed to sway the election.

*Just as Sept. 11 made clear that private security could not safeguard the aviation system, so the 2016 Russian attack made clear that social media companies cannot safeguard the electoral system. A greater federal role is needed, yet Trump refuses to even admit that the problem exists. *

*The most benign explanation is that he is putting his vanity — he can’t have anything taint his glorious victory — above his obligation to “protect and defend the Constitution.” The more sinister hypothesis is that he has something to hide and, having benefited from Russia’s assistance once, hopes for more aid in 2018 and 2020. Either way, we are at war without a commander in chief.*

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## RabzonKhan

Democrats just flipped deep red Kentucky House seat in District Trump won by 49 points, the victory for Linda Belcher is the 37th flip from red to blue control of the state legislative seat since Trump assumed the presidency.

Since Trump’s inauguration, Democrats have won state legislative seats in 11 different states, they are winning elections across the country as voters reject Trump’s dangerous agenda.



*Kentucky Democrat Wins Special Election To Reclaim Seat After Lawmaker's Suicide*
February 21, 2018





Democratic candidate Linda Belcher thanks her supporters in Shepherdsville, Ky., following her victory Tuesday in the special election to fill the vacant seat for the Kentucky House of Representatives 49th District. Read more

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## katsung47

Julian Assange Offered Hannity Impersonator ‘News’ About Top Democrat
The head of Wikileaks told @SeanHannity__ to seek ‘other channels’ for information on Sen. Mark Warner of the Trump-Russia investigation. ‘@SeanHannity__’ was a woman in Texas.


BEN COLLINS 01.29.18 8:16 PM ET

At about 4 a.m. on Saturday morning, a couple hours after she started pretending to be Sean Hannity, Dell Gilliam says she got a direct message back from the head of WikiLeaks, Julian Assange. That’s when she said she “kind of panicked.”

“I felt bad. He really thought he was talking to Sean Hannity,” said Gilliam.

Gilliam, a technical writer from Texas, was bored with the flu when she created @SeanHannity__ early Saturday morning. The Fox News host's real account was temporarily deleted after cryptically tweeting the phrase “Form Submission 1649 | #Hannity” on Friday night. Twitter said the account had been “briefly compromised,” according to a statement provided to The Daily Beast, and was back up on Sunday morning.

When Gilliam made the account, she did not expect to be setting up a meeting over “other channels” for Assange to send “some news about Warner,” an apparent reference to Sen. Mark Warner, the top Democrat on the Senate intelligence committee investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election.

During the election, WikiLeaks’ dumped Democratic emails stolen by Kremlin hackers, even leading President Donald Trump’s CIA director to brand Assange’s organization a “hostile intelligence service” last year.

Just minutes after @SeanHannity disappeared, several accounts quickly sprung up posing as the real Hannity, shouting from Twitter exile. None were as successful as Gilliam’s @SeanHannity__ account, which has since amassed over 24,000 followers.


Gilliam then used her newfound prominence to direct message Assange as Hannity within hours.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/julia...-democrat-investigating-trump-russia?ref=home

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## RabzonKhan

Thank goodness! 

When it comes to Russia, Americans have more trust in special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation than they do in President Trump's denials of collusion, a new USA TODAY/Suffolk University Poll finds. 

Mueller's level of credibility is significant because of attacks by Trump and his allies on the professionalism and nonpartisanship of the special counsel, the FBI and the Justice Department. Now, 31% express "a lot" of trust in Mueller and 27% "some" trust; 28% have little or no trust.

In comparison, 24% have "a lot" of trust in Trump's denials of collusion and 12% have "some" trust; 57% have little or no trust.

By wide margins, those surveyed are convinced that Russians meddled in the 2016 presidential election and that they will try it again.

In the new poll, nearly seven in 10, *69%, say they believe Russians made a serious effort to meddle in the 2016 election.* Fewer than one in five doubt that. 

* There is a broad consensus, 76%-17%, that Russians will continue to try to meddle in American elections. Six in 10 say Trump isn't doing enough to respond to that.

Three of four of those surveyed, 75%, say they take the charges filed by Mueller seriously; most of them say they take them "very" seriously. Just one in five, 20%, dismiss them as not particularly serious. Read more


*



katsung47 said:


> Julian Assange Offered Hannity Impersonator ‘News’ About Top Democrat
> The head of Wikileaks told @SeanHannity__ to seek ‘other channels’ for information on Sen. Mark Warner of the Trump-Russia investigation. ‘@SeanHannity__’ was a woman in Texas.
> 
> 
> BEN COLLINS 01.29.18 8:16 PM ET
> 
> At about 4 a.m. on Saturday morning, a couple hours after she started pretending to be Sean Hannity, Dell Gilliam says she got a direct message back from the head of WikiLeaks, Julian Assange. That’s when she said she “kind of panicked.”
> 
> “I felt bad. He really thought he was talking to Sean Hannity,” said Gilliam.
> 
> Gilliam, a technical writer from Texas, was bored with the flu when she created @SeanHannity__ early Saturday morning. The Fox News host's real account was temporarily deleted after cryptically tweeting the phrase “Form Submission 1649 | #Hannity” on Friday night. Twitter said the account had been “briefly compromised,” according to a statement provided to The Daily Beast, and was back up on Sunday morning.
> 
> When Gilliam made the account, she did not expect to be setting up a meeting over “other channels” for Assange to send “some news about Warner,” an apparent reference to Sen. Mark Warner, the top Democrat on the Senate intelligence committee investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election.
> 
> During the election, WikiLeaks’ dumped Democratic emails stolen by Kremlin hackers, even leading President Donald Trump’s CIA director to brand Assange’s organization a “hostile intelligence service” last year.
> 
> Just minutes after @SeanHannity disappeared, several accounts quickly sprung up posing as the real Hannity, shouting from Twitter exile. None were as successful as Gilliam’s @SeanHannity__ account, which has since amassed over 24,000 followers.
> 
> 
> Gilliam then used her newfound prominence to direct message Assange as Hannity within hours.
> 
> https://www.thedailybeast.com/julia...-democrat-investigating-trump-russia?ref=home


I don’t want to sound controversial, but quite frankly, these days it’s very hard to distinguish between, right-wing Jews, Nazis/Alt-right, fake nationalist and Russian spies, they are all in bed together.

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Thank goodness!



Hopefully Ivanka follows suit, along with another slew of shady characters within this incompetent posse! These are two that have absolutely no business with access to the country's most top secret information. This guy was even targeted by Israel and other countries to be manipulated because they smelt blood in a weak and probably sleazy individual.

The laughable part of this entire thing was this guy getting assigned to the Palestinian peace process LOLOL! Ma goodness. He was going to get eaten alive in that process.

*Kushner loses access to top-secret intelligence*
*
A memo sent Friday downgraded the presidential son-in-law and adviser and other White House aides who had been working on interim clearances.




*

*https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/27/jared-kushner-security-clearance-downgrade-427178*

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Gomig-21 said:


> Hopefully Ivanka follows suit, along with another slew of shady characters within this incompetent posse! These are two that have absolutely no business with access to the country's most top secret information. This guy was even targeted by Israel and other countries to be manipulated because they smelt blood in a weak and probably sleazy individual.
> 
> The laughable part of this entire thing was this guy getting assigned to the Palestinian peace process LOLOL! Ma goodness. He was going to get eaten alive in that process.
> 
> *Kushner loses access to top-secret intelligence
> 
> A memo sent Friday downgraded the presidential son-in-law and adviser and other White House aides who had been working on interim clearances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/27/jared-kushner-security-clearance-downgrade-427178*



This man looks like a woman.

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## Gomig-21

undertakerwwefan said:


> This man looks like a woman.



He's definitely one of the luckiest men on this earth...

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## RabzonKhan

Since Trump’s inauguration, Democrats flipped their 38th and 39th Republican-held state legislative seats in Connecticut and New Hampshire. I’m loving it! 






Democrat Phil Young

In Connecticut, Phil Young picked up the seat in the state house of representative that’s been held by Republicans for more than 40 years.






Philip Spagnuolo

And in New Hampshire, Philip Spagnuolo defeated his opponent with 54% to 46%, in a district Trump won by 13% point in the 2016 elections.

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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> Since Trump’s inauguration, Democrats flipped their 38th and 39th Republican-held state legislative seats in Connecticut and New Hampshire. I’m loving it!
> 
> 
> View attachment 456675
> 
> Democrat Phil Young
> 
> In Connecticut, Phil Young picked up the seat in the state house of representative that’s been held by Republicans for more than 40 years.
> 
> 
> View attachment 456676
> 
> Philip Spagnuolo
> 
> And in New Hampshire, Philip Spagnuolo defeated his opponent with 54% to 46%, in a district Trump won by 13% point in the 2016 elections.




The upcoming midterms will sure be interesting. And important.

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> Hopefully Ivanka follows suit, along with another slew of shady characters within this incompetent posse! These are two that have absolutely no business with access to the country's most top secret information. This guy was even targeted by Israel and other countries to be manipulated because they smelt blood in a weak and probably sleazy individual.
> 
> The laughable part of this entire thing was this guy getting assigned to the Palestinian peace process LOLOL! Ma goodness. He was going to get eaten alive in that process.
> 
> *Kushner loses access to top-secret intelligence
> 
> A memo sent Friday downgraded the presidential son-in-law and adviser and other White House aides who had been working on interim clearances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/27/jared-kushner-security-clearance-downgrade-427178*


Trump’s White House is a disaster, I still remember, how during the election, Trump promised that he is going to hire the most qualified people in the world to serve in his government, and now we all can see, with the exception of a few, most of them are bunch of losers.

And I’m sure you must have read Intelligence reports that at least four countries, Israel, China, Mexico and the UAE discussed exploiting Kushner via business ties. And why not, Kushner and his family are desperate to find investors to fund their 666 skyscraper, with a 1.2 billion loan due in Feb 2019.

Last year, Kushner had met with a Chinese investor with close ties to Chinese government to raise the funding for the building and he also was reported negotiating with former Prime Minister of Qatar for the same purpose. And his sister raised eyebrows for wooing Chinese investors by promoting her ties to the White House.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Not a fan of either party. They are both war mongers. I'd vote for Libertarians or Greens if I am an American citizen.


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## TaiShang

RabzonKhan said:


> It also says that a Russian organisation called the Internet research agency sought to wage information warfare against the United States by using fictitious American personas and social media platforms and other Internet based media.



US regime has proven to be weaker than I thought, if that's true. That bad news is good news. With a few hundred thousands dollars, one allegedly can rig US elections and put there someone who likes to grab ****** but hates to read .

Even McCarthy should not be that hysterical as the neoliberal US media. 

Yet, it is a double-edged sword. Next time if a neo-liberal wins and Hillary Clinton gets the regime's powers, the anti camp can easily claim election rig by Germany or Canada. I am sure they will also be spending several hundred thousand dollars on a candidate. 

Rather interesting.



RabzonKhan said:


> And I’m sure you must have read Intelligence reports that at least four countries, Israel, China, Mexico and the UAE discussed exploiting Kushner via business ties. And why not, Kushner and his family are desperate to find investors to fund their 666 skyscraper, with a 1.2 billion loan due in Feb 2019.
> 
> Last year, Kushner had met with a Chinese investor with close ties to Chinese government to raise the funding for the building and he also was reported negotiating with former Prime Minister of Qatar for the same purpose. And his sister raised eyebrows for wooing Chinese investors by promoting her ties to the White House.



I think this is nothing new or special to Trump. This is not even corruption as it is legal. In Singapore or China, that would be considered near-treason corruption but in the US it is how things are get going. 

Their system and I will not criticize or lecture them or bomb them into a better democracy. But, arguing that all these suddenly happened when Trump got president woefully underscores the systemic nature of all of these elite games.

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump’s White House is a disaster



I couldn't even keep up with all the events of this week alone! People quitting left and right because they're getting berated for admitting telling white lies for him, McMaster possibly on his way out, Kuschner stripped of his security clearance, Ivanka getting probed by the FBI for conflict of interest and shady business dealing and big questions about her security, Sessions being compared to Mr Magoo by the biggest cartoon character himself this has been an awesome week.






Now the back & forth mudslinging with Alec Baldwin is absolutely priceless! 

LOL @ the Russian pin! 






This was the original tweet which the orange baboon deleted shortly after and corrected the typos and retweeted a slightly milder one. First of all it's "Alec" not Alex and look at the way he spelled "dying" you gotta be kidding me! This is the president of the United States who can't spell one of the simplest words. This was no typo! lolzo.
_
“Alex Baldwin, whose dieing mediocre career was saved by his impersonation of me on SNL, now says playing DJT was agony for him,” the president wrote online. “Alex, it was also agony for those who were forced to watch. You were terrible. Bring back Darrell Hammond, much funnier and a far greater talent!”_

Baldwin's replies were awesome!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/969552646498643968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/969563908037062657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/969567042650148864


undertakerwwefan said:


> This man looks like a woman.



Wwefan, here you go, fits perfectly. This might be before your time, though, but an Aerosmith CLASSIC!

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## katsung47

Hillary was attacked doing same thing. 

Quote, "Kushner used private email to conduct White House business

The senior adviser set up the account after the election. Other West Wing officials have also used private email accounts for official business.

By JOSH DAWSEY 09/24/2017

Presidential son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner has corresponded with other administration officials about White House matters through a private email account set up during the transition last December, part of a larger pattern of Trump administration aides using personal email accounts for government business.

Kushner uses his private account alongside his official White House email account, sometimes trading emails with senior White House officials, outside advisers and others about media coverage, event planning and other subjects, according to four people familiar with the correspondence. POLITICO has seen and verified about two dozen emails.


https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/24/jared-kushner-private-email-white-house-243071

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## Gomig-21

This is unbelievable how senator Lindsey Graham goes off on these generals and openly discusses the removal of Bashar Al Assad in a congressional hearing leaving the generals rather uncomfortable and dumbfounded. Probably one of the more dramatic hearings I've heard over the Syrian war.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Gomig-21 said:


> This is unbelievable how senator Lindsey Graham goes off on these generals and openly discusses the removal of Bashar Al Assad in a congressional hearing leaving the generals rather uncomfortable and dumbfounded. Probably one of the more dramatic hearings I've heard over the Syrian war.



And that's why he is not president, and never will be.


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## RabzonKhan

Trump Kick-started his Campaign for 2020, with the same old fear mongering racist BS.


*'Are you concerned by sharia law?': Trump canvasses supporters for 2020*

Donald Trump’s re-election campaign is canvassing supporters about the potential spread of sharia law, whether English should be the official language of the US and whether they regard Russia as “a concern”.

The online survey, funded by the Trump Make America Great Again Committee, offers an early insight into likely themes in what is set to be a bitter battle for the White House in 2020. This week Trump named digital strategist Brad Parscale as his campaign manager.

The multiple-choice questionnaire appears to be aimed squarely at the so-called Trump base, as it delves into slashing regulations, support for “merit based” legal immigration and imposing tariffs to protect American industry. One question reads: “Do you believe many universities indoctrinate rather than teach students?” Read more

*

Democrats buoyed by Texas voter turnout in quest to retake U.S. House
*
AUSTIN, Texas, March 6 (Reuters) - After record-high early voter turnout, Democrats hope Texas' primary election on Tuesday will show that anger over U.S. President Donald Trump’s policies could help them flip congressional seats from Republican control in November.

Democrats need to gain 24 seats nationwide to retake the U.S. House of Representatives, a feat that would allow the party to block the Republican president's legislative agenda.

In the first U.S. primary of the 2018 midterm election season, Texas Democrats were fielding their largest contingent of congressional and legislative candidates in a primary in several decades, and were encouraged the strong early turnout was a sign of electoral success to come in the most populous Republican-held state. Texas Democrats, however, have not won a statewide race for posts such as governor or U.S. senator in more than two decades. Read more



TaiShang said:


> US regime has proven to be weaker than I thought, if that's true. That bad news is good news. With a few hundred thousands dollars, one allegedly can rig US elections and put there someone who likes to grab ****** but hates to read .


Keep in mind, Mueller’s investigation is not all about Trump’s collusion with the Russian and his (firing of FBI Dir James Comey.) obstruction. The main purpose of the investigation is Russia’s meddling in our election. Mueller was appointed after the office of the Dir of National intelligence reported that the US military and civilian intelligence agencies had concluded with high confidence that the Russian government interfered in our election.

You are somehow right, clearly it seems our government and intelligence agencies had no clue what the heck was going on. According to the Robert Mueller’s indictment, Russian spies landed in the United States way back in 2014 to lay groundwork for an intelligence operation targeting the 2016 election. They stole American identities, credit card information and opened PayPal to pay for social media advertising etc. But at this time, I really don’t know how much role the Russians played in Trump’s victory, I’ll rather wait for Robert Mueller to complete his investigation.

But so far one thing is very clear it was quite a sophisticated operation, not as simple as you are describing it, and If you are really interested then I will urge you to read the 37-page indictment.

US is not the only target, Russia has been meddling in European elections for almost 10 years now and they have become masters in the cyber espionage operations. Russians very smartly used our social media (Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Google, YouTube etc.) to exploit our racial, religious, gender, and political divisions that unfortunately already existed in our society.

Russia’s short-term agenda was to undermine Hillary Clinton, and according to Mueller indictment, they mainly supported Trump but also supported Bernie and Jill Stein. And their long-term agenda is to undermine Western democracies and discredit our election process.

Here are few examples:

As many as 126 million people — or one-third the U.S. population — may have seen material posted by a Russian troll farm under fake Facebook identities between 2015 and 2017, according to testimony presented by Facebook's general counsel at a hearing before the Senate on Tuesday. 

Facebook's new disclosures that a Kremlin-linked misinformation agency used original content in users' feeds, as well as paid ads. Previously Facebook said 10 million people saw Russia-linked advertising that sought to sway U.S. voters.

Twitter, which originally said it found 201 accounts linked to Russia that were sending out automated, election-related content, also increased its estimates of the reach these operatives had on its platform. It has now found 36,746 such accounts

Twitter says the Russia-related accounts sent “approximately 1.4 million automated, election-related Tweets,” which were seen by approximately 288 million Twitter users. 

That was just one part of their cyber war, the other was the hacks and leaks of Democratic party and Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman John Podesta’s emails.





> I think this is nothing new or special to Trump. This is not even corruption as it is legal. In Singapore or China, that would be considered near-treason corruption but in the US it is how things are get going.
> 
> Their system and I will not criticize or lecture them or bomb them into a better democracy. But, arguing that all these suddenly happened when Trump got president woefully underscores the systemic nature of all of these elite games.


I’m not an expert on American law. But Trump’s former campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Rick Gates have been charged for almost similar reason by the special prosecutor Robert Mueller. One of the charges against them were “conspiracy to defraud the United States”, meaning, that they were really serving the interest of foreigner governments, and that by hiding their true intent, the defendants prevented the United States government from protecting our politics from undisclosed outside influence. Rick Gates has accepted guilty plea to the same charge.

And according to reports, Mueller is pursuing Kushner for the same reason. And most probably one of the reason he was stripped of his top-secret security clearance last week by Trump’s chief of staff John Kelly. Even after 13 months, the FBI has still not given him top-secret clearance, so clearly, something is very fishy.



Gomig-21 said:


> This is unbelievable how senator Lindsey Graham goes off on these generals and openly discusses the removal of Bashar Al Assad in a congressional hearing leaving the generals rather uncomfortable and dumbfounded. Probably one of the more dramatic hearings I've heard over the Syrian war.


That clip is from 2015, most probably he was indirectly criticizing Pres Obama’s Syrian policy.
Interestingly, Trump is following the same policy.


----------



## RabzonKhan

I told you so, he is a snake oil salesman. 

He repeatedly promised to “drain the swamp” in his rallies and tweets. But has filled, not drained, the swamp.

Trump supporters, you were fooled. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/788402585816276992Donald Trump Says He Is Will "Drain The Swamp in Washington DC:






*What We Found in Trump’s Drained Swamp: Hundreds of Ex-Lobbyists and D.C. Insiders*

ProPublica
Derek Kravitz, Al Shaw, Isaac Arnsdorf 50 mins ago

When the Trump administration took office early last year, hundreds of staffers from lobbying firms, conservative think tanks and Trump campaign groups began pouring into the very agencies they once lobbied or whose work they once opposed.

*Today we’re making available, for the first time, an authoritative searchable database of 2,475 political appointees, including Trump’s Cabinet, staffers in the White House and senior officials within the government, along with their federal lobbying and financial records. *Trump Town is the result of a year spent filing hundreds of Freedom of Information Act requests; collecting and organizing staffing lists; and compiling, sifting through and publishing thousands of financial disclosure reports.

*Here’s what we found: At least 187 Trump political appointees have been federal lobbyists, and despite President Trump’s campaign pledge to “drain the swamp,” many are now overseeing the industries they once lobbied on behalf of. We’ve also discovered ethics waivers that allow Trump staffers to work on subjects in which they have financial conflicts of interest. In addition, at least 254 groups affiliated with Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and at least 125 staffers came from prominent conservative think tanks, many of whom are on teams to repeal Obama-era regulations.*

*Drilling down even further, at least 35 Trump political appointees worked for or consulted with groups affiliated with the the billionaire libertarian brothers Charles and David Koch, *who also have a network of advocacy groups, nonprofits, private companies and political action committees. At least 25 Trump appointees came from the influential Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank founded in 1973, and at least two came from Heritage Action, its related political nonprofit. Heritage says the Trump administration, in just its first year, has enacted nearly two-thirds of its 334 policy recommendations.

We also found — for the first time — dozens of special-government employees, or SGEs, who work as paid consultants or experts for federal agencies while keeping their day jobs in the private sector. This rare government gig allows them to legally work for both industry and the Trump administration at the same time. Under the Obama administration, Huma Abedin, the longtime aide to former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, benefited from this policy while simultaneously working at the State Department, the Clinton Foundation and a corporate consulting firm, drawing scrutiny from the Senate Judiciary Committee and the Government Accountability Office.

Roughly 60 percent of the Trump administration officials included in our analysis have financial disclosure reports. We have requested these reports for the rest. Since our last update of financial disclosure records in August, we have added 660 such reports from across the government.

We also did a more limited version of this project in 2009, at the start of the Obama administration. As part of this year’s analysis, we compared the number of appointees in the first year of both the Obama and Trump administrations who had been active lobbyists in the two years prior to their nomination for Senate-confirmed government jobs. Even though the Trump administration has lagged significantly behind previous administrations in appointing people for such positions, more Trump appointees were recent lobbyists than Obama appointees: Trump had 18 in his first year, while Obama had 14.

“Focusing on novel scandals alone can distract from the enormous scale of the Trump administration’s embrace of revolving-door hiring,” said Jeff Hauser, executive director of the Revolving Door Project at the nonpartisan Center for Economic and Policy Research.

The pipelines between conservative policy think tanks — namely the Heritage Foundation and the Koch Brothers’ Freedom Partners Chamber of Commerce — and the Trump administration are clear, as is their effect on federal policy.

Just before Trump took office last January, Freedom Partners Chamber of Commerce, one of the main conservative advocacy groups funded by the Koch Brothers, unveiled a deregulatory wish list. The action plan highlighted 19 Obama-era policies affecting the environment, labor and technology that Freedom Partners wanted gone. “This strategy can help to unravel eight years of regulatory overreach starting immediately,” the organization’s vice president, Andy Koenig, wrote in an accompanying press release.

A few weeks later, Koenig joined the White House as a policy assistant, putting him in a position to implement his former employer’s agenda. Sure enough, just over a year later, the administration has acted on 16 of the 19 suggestions that Freedom Partners listed.

The moratorium on federal coal leases? Lifted. The Paris climate agreement? Withdrawn. The Clean Power Plan? Repealed. The FCC’s net neutrality policy, the EPA’s Waters of the United States rule, and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau’s arbitration rules? All reversed.

Freedom Partners and the White House didn’t respond to requests for comment.

The Trump campaign had a small staff and was light on policy chops, so it leaned heavily on personnel from the Koch network and the Heritage Foundation during the transition. “When you have a president committed to strong deregulatory policy, there’s no better place to figure out what regulations put a stranglehold on the economy than to go to the Koch network and the Heritage Foundation,” said Marc Lampkin, the co-chair of Brownstein Hyatt Farber Schreck’s lobbying practice and a former aide to House Speaker John Boehner. “It makes perfect sense that they would be part of the intellectual breeding ground for the administration.”

The Heritage Foundation has touted its influence over Trump’s agenda. On Jan. 23, the organization said the Trump administration embraced two-thirds of the 334 policy recommendations in its “Mandate for Leadership,” such as shrinking national monuments in Utah, preventing taxpayer funding for international groups involved in abortion (known as the Mexico City Policy), raising military spending, and withdrawing from UNESCO.

Heritage cited the efforts of about 70 of its former employees working throughout the transition and administration. Our analysis found 28 officials who used to work at the Heritage Foundation and its advocacy arm, Heritage Action.

Not all political appointments are announced. In digging through lists of special-government employees, we found several in key positions in the Trump administration, including Wendy Teramoto, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross’s chief of staff and a longtime aide at his private equity firm; James D. Ray, a George W. Bush-era staffer who worked as an unpaid consultant at the Department of Transportation while keeping his job as a principal in KPMG’s infrastructure consulting practice; and Leonard Wolfson, who was lobbying on behalf of the Mortgage Bankers Association on Capitol Hill while getting paid $64 per hour as an expert at the Department of Housing and Urban Development.

Wolfson’s case is a prime example of the inherent business conflicts in such arrangements: Wolfson is a well-known housing lobbyist among House Republicans and served in the Bush administration at HUD from 2005 to 2008. Senate records show Wolfson was actively lobbying on banking legislation and regulatory issues in April and May.

By mid-May, Wolfson had taken a relatively rare position as an outside “expert” at HUD while he was still employed at the 2,200-member lobbying group. To take the HUD gig, Wolfson took an unpaid leave from the Mortgage Bankers Association. He didn’t fully resign from the group until July 31.

At HUD, Wolfson worked on getting nominees for senior positions at the agency through the backlogged and slow Senate confirmation process, according to HUD officials.

Reached for comment, a HUD spokesman denied there was any conflict. “There was absolutely no overlap,” said Brian Sullivan. “He took one hat off and put another one on.”

His paid government consulting work this past summer was not previously disclosed. And in December, Wolfson himself was appointed and confirmed as HUD’s assistant secretary for congressional and intergovernmental relations.

We’re releasing Trump Town as a resource for journalists, researchers and the public. Its goal: to increase understanding of who the current administration’s taxpayer-funded decision-makers are and how their work histories and financial holdings might influence public policy. Source


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## RabzonKhan

P.orn star Stormy Daniels sues Pres of the United States of America, the role model of the conservatives and the Leader of the family party, what a damn disgrace.







*Stormy Daniels Lawsuit Raises Election Law Questions for Trump
*
Roll Call
Griffin Connolly 4 hrs ago

As Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller continues to probe members of President Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign for possible collusion with Russia, some lawmakers have raised ethical concerns over the president’s alleged preemptive coverup of an affair with **** actress Stormy Daniels.

Reps. Kathleen Rice of New York and Ted Lieu of California, both former prosecutors, have asked the FBI to investigate payments from Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen, to Daniels, who filed a lawsuit Tuesday against the president in Los Angeles Superior Court.

NBC News first reported the lawsuit.

Lieu and Rice believe the alleged “hush” agreement — which involved a $130,000 payment from Cohen to Daniels — violates federal election laws.

“[The] hush agreement & side letter attached to Stormy Daniels’ filing essentially shows coordination between @*realDonaldTrump*, Cohen & Daniels,” Lieu tweeted Tuesday night. “That means the $130k payment from Cohen to Daniels to silence her during the campaign violated federal election law.”

The penalty, he added, is a five-year felony sentencing.

In the lawsuit complaint filed Tuesday, Daniels, whose real name is Stephanie Clifford, states that her nondisclosure agreement regarding her alleged 2006 affair with Trump is invalid because Trump never actually signed the document — only Cohen and Daniels did.

According to the lawsuit, Daniels’ affair with Trump lasted “well into 2007.”

The suit alleges that Cohen has tried to intimidate Daniels into silence on the matter as recently as Feb. 27.

“To be clear, the attempts to intimidate Ms. Clifford into silence and ‘shut her up’ in order to ‘protect Mr. Trump’ continue unabated,” the suit claims. “On or about February 27, 2018, Mr. Trump’s attorney Mr. Cohen surreptitiously initiated a bogus arbitration proceeding against Ms. Clifford in Los Angeles.” Read more

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> I couldn't even keep up with all the events of this week alone! People quitting left and right because they're getting berated for admitting telling white lies for him, McMaster possibly on his way out, Kuschner stripped of his security clearance, Ivanka getting probed by the FBI for conflict of interest and shady business dealing and big questions about her security, Sessions being compared to Mr Magoo by the biggest cartoon character himself this has been an awesome week.


And the chaos continues, my friend. Gary Cohn, Trump’s chief economic adviser is out of the Mad House, oh I mean, White House. Looks like Trump is determined to plunge us in a global trade war.

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> P.orn star Stormy Daniels sues Pres of the United States of America, the role model of the conservatives and the Leader of the family party, what a damn disgrace.
> 
> View attachment 458125
> 
> 
> 
> *Stormy Daniels Lawsuit Raises Election Law Questions for Trump
> *
> Roll Call
> Griffin Connolly 4 hrs ago
> 
> As Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller continues to probe members of President Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign for possible collusion with Russia, some lawmakers have raised ethical concerns over the president’s alleged preemptive coverup of an affair with **** actress Stormy Daniels.
> 
> Reps. Kathleen Rice of New York and Ted Lieu of California, both former prosecutors, have asked the FBI to investigate payments from Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen, to Daniels, who filed a lawsuit Tuesday against the president in Los Angeles Superior Court.
> 
> NBC News first reported the lawsuit.
> 
> Lieu and Rice believe the alleged “hush” agreement — which involved a $130,000 payment from Cohen to Daniels — violates federal election laws.
> 
> “[The] hush agreement & side letter attached to Stormy Daniels’ filing essentially shows coordination between @*realDonaldTrump*, Cohen & Daniels,” Lieu tweeted Tuesday night. “That means the $130k payment from Cohen to Daniels to silence her during the campaign violated federal election law.”
> 
> The penalty, he added, is a five-year felony sentencing.
> 
> In the lawsuit complaint filed Tuesday, Daniels, whose real name is Stephanie Clifford, states that her nondisclosure agreement regarding her alleged 2006 affair with Trump is invalid because Trump never actually signed the document — only Cohen and Daniels did.
> 
> According to the lawsuit, Daniels’ affair with Trump lasted “well into 2007.”
> 
> The suit alleges that Cohen has tried to intimidate Daniels into silence on the matter as recently as Feb. 27.
> 
> “To be clear, the attempts to intimidate Ms. Clifford into silence and ‘shut her up’ in order to ‘protect Mr. Trump’ continue unabated,” the suit claims. “On or about February 27, 2018, Mr. Trump’s attorney Mr. Cohen surreptitiously initiated a bogus arbitration proceeding against Ms. Clifford in Los Angeles.” Read more



The really crazy thing about this whole Stormy Daniels saga is the payoff of that $130K since it happened during the campaign and could be subject to campaign finance laws which is apparently why Cohen made the payment and claims he paid it out of his own money and never sought any reimbursement from Trump in any fashion.

Here's the problem, though, how many lawyers do you know would go out of their way to dish out $130K out of the kindness of their own heart and out of their own pocket as a favor to a multi-billionaire like Trump and that billionaire not know anything about it? lol Obviously it was done in a way not to connect Trump to the hush-hush payment but if there ever was proof to link the payment to him....yikes. 

And the whole thing with Trump talking to witnesses about things they discussed with the special council is absolutely insane. To think that no one around him is capable of advising him that doing such a thing is a complete no-no or that even if there was someone warning him, he obviously isn't listening to them. Crazy, crazy.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Gomig-21 said:


> The really crazy thing about this whole Stormy Daniels saga is the payoff of that $130K since it happened during the campaign and could be subject to campaign finance laws which is apparently why Cohen made the payment and claims he paid it out of his own money and never sought any reimbursement from Trump in any fashion.
> 
> Here's the problem, though, how many lawyers do you know would go out of their way to dish out $130K out of the kindness of their own heart and out of their own pocket as a favor to a multi-billionaire like Trump and that billionaire not know anything about it? lol Obviously it was done in a way not to connect Trump to the hush-hush payment but if there ever was proof to link the payment to him....yikes.
> 
> And the whole thing with Trump talking to witnesses about things they discussed with the special council is absolutely insane. To think that no one around him is capable of advising him that doing such a thing is a complete no-no or that even if there was someone warning him, he obviously isn't listening to them. Crazy, crazy.



This whole thing is fake.


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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> The really crazy thing about this whole Stormy Daniels saga is the payoff of that $130K since it happened during the campaign and could be subject to campaign finance laws which is apparently why Cohen made the payment and claims he paid it out of his own money and never sought any reimbursement from Trump in any fashion.
> 
> Here's the problem, though, how many lawyers do you know would go out of their way to dish out $130K out of the kindness of their own heart and out of their own pocket as a favor to a multi-billionaire like Trump and that billionaire not know anything about it? lol Obviously it was done in a way not to connect Trump to the hush-hush payment but if there ever was proof to link the payment to him....yikes.
> 
> And the whole thing with Trump talking to witnesses about things they discussed with the special council is absolutely insane. To think that no one around him is capable of advising him that doing such a thing is a complete no-no or that even if there was someone warning him, he obviously isn't listening to them. Crazy, crazy.


Absolutely. Isn’t it amazing, we’re supposed to believe Trump’s lawyer paid $130,000 out of his own pocket to a p.orn star to keep her quiet about an affair that supposedly never happened. 

Of course, there is not an ounce of credibility to the claim. I have heard many lies in my life, but this one is the stupidest lie I have heard so far.

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## Gomig-21

undertakerwwefan said:


> This whole thing is fake.



Come on with the fake news excuse! Everything we don't like now is immediately "Fake News!"

What did Sarah Sanders mean then when she said "the case has already been won in arbitration?"

What it means is they're doing everything they can to keep her quiet. 

Look, Clinton was a GREAT president but he couldn't keep it in his pants either and this guy here?



RabzonKhan said:


> Absolutely. Isn’t it amazing, we’re supposed to believe Trump’s lawyer paid $130,000 out of his own pocket to a p.orn star to keep her quiet about an affair that supposedly never happened.
> 
> Of course, there is not an ounce of credibility to the claim. I have heard many lies in my life, but this one is the stupidest lie I have heard so far.
> 
> View attachment 458368


 
I love the way they put Trump's alias on that hush-hush agreement, what was it, DD? LOL!

Seriously, though, if I was packing this package, I would've asked for a hell of a lot more than $130K!
















I thought this was a goodone, Rabzon! lol






This was KILLER LOL!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/972059861809811456
Oh, and anyone who thinks North Korea is going to give up its nukes or ballistic missiles without asking for at least a complete withdrawal of all US involvement in SK as well as billions upon billions of $ for compensation for almost 2 decades of sanctions is sadly mistaken. What they'll want will make what Iran settled for look like child's play.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Gomig-21 said:


> Look, Clinton was a GREAT president but he couldn't keep it in his pants either and this guy here?



A GREAT president? The man who sold out the factories to China. Maybe the worst in my books.


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## Gomig-21

undertakerwwefan said:


> A GREAT president? The man who sold out the factories to China. Maybe the worst in my books.



A GREAT president! Some of his accomplishments were things that hadn't been done for 25 years and up to the days of Teddy Roosevelt! 

Here's just a sampling of the accomplishments under his presidency.

https://clintonwhitehouse1.archives.gov/White_House/Accomplishments/html/accomp-plain.html

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen



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## recon scout

undertakerwwefan said:


>


full rally here: 






I really don't understand how anyone can NOT like this man ! 

what a guy, POTUS 45, you fecking legend.. there will never be another like him ! 

Trump !


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

recon scout said:


> full rally here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't understand how anyone can NOT like this man !
> 
> what a guy, POTUS 45, you fecking legend.. there will never be another like him !
> 
> Trump !



Yes and he is funniest president ever. A stand up comedian basically.


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## recon scout

undertakerwwefan said:


> Yes and he is funniest president ever. A stand up comedian basically.


an amazing stand up comedian !

and he means business, like no US president has ever meant business before.. love this guy !


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## RabzonKhan

The blue wave continues! Tomorrow is very interesting special election in Pennsylvania’s 18th Congressional District between, moderate Democrat, Conor Lamp, a former Marine and a federal prosecutor and Republican Rick Saccone, an Air Force veteran.

The district was designed by the Republican, an extreme case of gerrymandering, and still, Republicans are really very nervous about the race in so-called “Trump country”. Saccone should win the race easily, given its solidly Republican performance in recent elections. Former Republican Rep. Tim Murphy, (who disgracefully resigned), ran unopposed in both 2014 and 2016, won the district by 28 points in 2012. And Trump won the district in presidential election 2016 by 20 points.

Trump has visited the state twice now supporting Rick Saccone and the Republican party has poured in almost $ 11 million supporting their candidate. But still, thanks to the blue wave, the polls are showing the race is neck to neck.

And thanks to a recent ruling by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court throwing out the state’s Congressional map as too gerrymandered in favor of the Republicans, the district will not even exist in the regularly scheduled November 2018 election.

@Gomig-21, I don’t know if you have been following the race, but I’m loving it, I have even contributed $ 10 to Conor’s campaign. The Republicans and Trump are really panicked, Conor is really a tough guy, and I think there are 90% chances that he can win this red district. Tomorrow is the big day, let’s hope for the best.











Gomig-21 said:


> Come on with the fake news excuse! Everything we don't like now is immediately "Fake News!"
> 
> What did Sarah Sanders mean then when she said "the case has already been won in arbitration?"
> 
> What it means is they're doing everything they can to keep her quiet.
> 
> Look, Clinton was a GREAT president but he couldn't keep it in his pants either and this guy here?
> 
> 
> 
> I love the way they put Trump's alias on that hush-hush agreement, what was it, DD? LOL!
> 
> Seriously, though, if I was packing this package, I would've asked for a hell of a lot more than $130K!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought this was a goodone, Rabzon! lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was KILLER LOL!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/972059861809811456
> Oh, and anyone who thinks North Korea is going to give up its nukes or ballistic missiles without asking for at least a complete withdrawal of all US involvement in SK as well as billions upon billions of $ for compensation for almost 2 decades of sanctions is sadly mistaken. What they'll want will make what Iran settled for look like child's play.


Fake Jews, fake orgasms and fake president. Super! 

I love the tweet it very smartly exposed Trump’s meeting with North Korean dictator drama, as an attempt by him to knock down Stormy Daniels controversy from the front page/headline news.

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> @Gomig-21, I don’t know if you have been following the race, but I’m loving it, I have even contributed $ 10 to Conor’s campaign. The Republicans and Trump are really panicked, Conor is really a tough guy, and I think there are 90% chances that he can win this red district. Tomorrow is the big day, let’s hope for the best.



I am watching it, bro. We're snowed in today and tonight so I'll be able to follow it closely but what just happened a couple of minutes ago is just incredible, again, with this fruitcake of a president. Or should I say moron? Rex Tillerson just fired 5 minutes ago! loool. 

And then think of all the positions that are still empty and have never been filled because this guy doesn't have a clue what he's doing.

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> I am watching it, bro. We're snowed in today and tonight so I'll be able to follow it closely but what just happened a couple of minutes ago is just incredible, again, with this fruitcake of a president. Or should I say moron? Rex Tillerson just fired 5 minutes ago! loool.
> 
> And then think of all the positions that are still empty and have never been filled because this guy doesn't have a clue what he's doing.


Yeah, I just read it. Trump administration is just a clown show. And the chaos continues.

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Yeah, I just read it. Trump administration is just a clown show. And the chaos continues.



I actually liked Tillerson. Seemed like his head was in the right place and represented the US in a very dignified and powerful way to other nations just like the way it should be. AND, knowing that he was dealing with North Korea in a certain diplomatic way and wasn't going around threatening to nuke it to "bolivion" etc., that his stance on the Iran deal was also very firm and he accepted the fact that Iran was abiding by the deal. This idiot wants war, or to use the threat of war to get things done to come off like he's the tough guy who got things done with a stick and that's so dangerous and you know Rex Tillerson realizes that crucial fact. So the NK and the Iran deal are certainly what caused this which sucks because now you know this clown is going to find a way to shove the Iran deal aside an cause all kinds of problems just for his buddy Netanyahu and that thorn called Israel.

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## RabzonKhan

*Top Intel Dem excoriates GOP over end of Russia probe

The Hill *
Julia Manchester 15 hrs ago

The top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) ripped into Republicans on the committee on Monday after they announced they were ending the probe into alleged ties between the Trump campaign and Russian election meddling.

"While the Majority members of our committee have indicated for some time that they have been under great pressure to end the investigation, it is nonetheless another tragic milestone for this Congress, and represents yet another capitulation to the executive branch," Schiff said in a statement.

"By ending its oversight role in the only authorized investigation in the House, the Majority has placed the interests of protecting the President over protecting the country, and history will judge its actions harshly," he continued.

"If the Russians do have leverage over the President of the United States, the Majority has simply decided it would rather not know," he said. Read more


*Papadopoulos says that Trump personally encouraged him to arrange meeting with Putin, new book reports
*
George Papadopoulos, a former foreign policy adviser to the Trump campaign and potentially a key witness in special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia probe, told federal investigators that before the election, Donald Trump personally encouraged him to pursue a summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin, according to a new book being published Tuesday. 

Papadopoulos’s account to Mueller — as reported in “Russian Roulette: The Inside Story of Putin’s War on America and the Election of Donald Trump,” by Yahoo News’ Michael Isikoff and Mother Jones’ David Corn — contradicts the public accounts of what took place at a critical meeting of Trump’s foreign policy team on March 31, 2016. It was at that meeting that Papadopoulos first informed Trump and the then candidate’s other foreign policy advisers that he had contacts in Britain who could arrange a summit between the GOP candidate and Putin.

Although one of the campaign officials present, J.D. Gordon, has said the idea was shot down by then Alabama Sen. Jeff Sessions, Papadopoulos told Mueller’s investigators that Trump encouraged him, saying he found the idea “interesting,” according to the book, which cites sources familiar with his questioning by Mueller’s investigators.

Trump looked at Sessions, as if he expected him to follow up with Papadopoulos, and Sessions nodded in response, the authors write. Sessions has said he has “no clear recollection” of the exchange with Papadopoulos. A White House official said that others at the meeting remember it differently than Papadopoulos. Read more




Gomig-21 said:


> I actually liked Tillerson. Seemed like his head was in the right place and represented the US in a very dignified and powerful way to other nations just like the way it should be. AND, knowing that he was dealing with North Korea in a certain diplomatic way and wasn't going around threatening to nuke it to "bolivion" etc., that his stance on the Iran deal was also very firm and he accepted the fact that Iran was abiding by the deal. This idiot wants war, or to use the threat of war to get things done to come off like he's the tough guy who got things done with a stick and that's so dangerous and you know Rex Tillerson realizes that crucial fact. So the NK and the Iran deal are certainly what caused this which sucks because now you know this clown is going to find a way to shove the Iran deal aside an cause all kinds of problems just for his buddy Netanyahu and that thorn called Israel.


I was a little suspicious of him because of his close relationship with Russia when he was the CEO of ExxonMobil. But you’re right, on NATO, North Korea and Iran he was on the right track and had almost refused to follow Trump’s mad hawkish agenda. Netanyahu is a war monger, remember how he lobbied for Iraq War and now he’s trying to push the US to kill the Iran nuclear deal. Even though I do not trust the Iranian Ayatollahs, but so far, it seems the deal is working.

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## RabzonKhan

recon scout said:


> full rally here:


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> @Gomig-21, I don’t know if you have been following the race, but I’m loving it, I have even contributed $ 10 to Conor’s campaign. The Republicans and Trump are really panicked, Conor is really a tough guy, and I think there are 90% chances that he can win this red district. Tomorrow is the big day, let’s hope for the best.



Looks like your donation paid off, ma friend. For a lousy 18th congressional district vote to be this exciting and close!? That was ridiculous. As of this morning it's what, Lamb 49.9% to Saccone 49.5%? Has it ever been this close where they actually call it "too close to call?" 

I remember checking in when it was pretty much over but they still had something like 7800 absentee ballots to count and even before counting them, the spread was under 1% and after counting those 8000 ballots to have almost the same exact difference in the result is nuts. 

If this is what a lousy congressional district vote turns out to be, imagine the midterms? lol

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## VCheng

Gomig-21 said:


> imagine the midterms?



This is just the run up. As I have said many times before, these mid-terms will be _crucial _in determining not only the rest of this Presidential term but also the next elections.

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## recon scout

RabzonKhan said:


>


lol nobody cares about these "comedian" leftist hacks 

Donald J Trump = 45th President of the United States of America. 

late night loser leftists hacks = comedians. 

funny thing is, President Trump wipes the floor with them when it comes to comedy too..


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## F-22Raptor

VCheng said:


> This is just the run up. As I have said many times before, these mid-terms will be _crucial _in determining not only the rest of this Presidential term but also the next elections.



I think we may see record turnout in November.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hopefully Democrats take back the House or Senate so Trump don't start war in Syria and butcher innocent Syrians in the name of fighting Iran.


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## Solomon2

*Minister Farrakhan Responds After CBC Accused of Burying 2005 Photo of Him Alongside President Obama*
By
Tanasia Kenney
-
January 29, 2018





Photographer Askia Muhammad said he was contacted by the CBC the same day he took the photo of Obama and Farrakhan. (Youtube video screenshot)


Nation of Islam leader Minister Louis Farrakhan is setting the record straight amid reports the Congressional Black Caucus tried to bury a 2005 photo of he and then-Illinois senator Barack Obama.

Farrakhan took to Twitter, Sunday, Jan. 28, to share a 2016 video explaining why he chose NOT to release the photo of him and the Black senator who would be elected president just three years later.






“You’ve never seen it,” Farrakhan said of the photo during a past speaking event in Atlanta, Ga. ” … It’s of me a Barack shaking hands [but ] I knew if I ever let that go out, they’d use that to hurt that brother. So, you never saw it.”







MINISTER FARRAKHAN

✔@LouisFarrakhan

A message for those wondering why I chose not to release the photo I took with former President Barack Obama.

Watch more: http://dld.bz/g8K4A 

7:08 PM - Jan 28, 2018



“I have always, by God’s grace, been able to see the bigger picture,” he wrote in a follow-up tweet.

The minister’s response comes after photojournalist Askia Muhammad released the top–secret photo last week, revealing that the Congressional Black Caucus pressured him to keep it under wraps all these years. Speaking to the Trice Edney News Wire, Muhammad said he believed it “absolutely would’ve made a difference” in the 2008 election had the photo been made public.

The photographer also appeared on Fox News’ “Tucker Carlson Tonight,” where he claimed the CBC reached out to him the same day he took the photo of the pair following a group meeting on Capitol Hill.

“A staff member from the black caucus called me and said ‘we have to have the picture back,’ and I was kind of taken aback,” he told Carlson. “… And we talked a couple of times on the phone after that, and I said ‘Okay, I will give the picture back to Minister Farrakhan’s chief of staff.’ ”

After giving the original copy to a member of Farrakhan’s staff, Muhammad said he kept a secret copy for himself because “it’s my art, and it’s my intellectual property.”

“I owned it, and I wanted to keep it,” he said.

Like Farrakhan, however, Muhammad acknowledged that the minister’s reputation had the potential to hurt someone like Obama, who was at the time working “to win acceptance in the broad cross-section.” The young senator was also poised to make his bid for the U.S. presidency.

“The members of the Nation of Islam helped him in his Senate campaign and on the South Side of Chicago,” he revealed. ” … “In fact he had people from the Nation of Islam working on his staff and in his office in Chicago, his Senate staff.”

Watch the full interview below:


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> @Gomig-21



Our weekly dose of Trump bashing is due, Rabzon. Here we go.










This one is excellent! Love the creativity.






LOL!






















LOOOOOOOL!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen



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## RabzonKhan

The Supreme Court rejects Republican case. The Republican wanted to preserve a 2011 gerrymandered map that the state Supreme Court said violated a provision in the state constitution guaranteeing free and equal elections, which gave Republicans a 13 – 5 advantages in elections. This was a great victory for voters, Democrat party, and most importantly, our democracy. 



*Supreme Court Delivers Blow To Republicans, Declines To Take Up Pa. Redistricting*
March 19, 2018

The U.S. Supreme Court declined to take up a Republican challenge to the newly drawn Pennsylvania congressional map ahead of the 2018 elections.

The decision means Republicans have few, if any, options remaining to try to stem a map that will almost certainly result in Democrats picking up potentially three or four seats and could make half a dozen or more competitive.

Tuesday is the filing deadline for candidates for Pennsylvania's April 26 primaries.

Last month, the Supreme Court also declined to block the state court decision that said the old GOP-drawn map violated the Pennsylvania Constitution.

Republicans drew a gerrymandered map in 2011 that resulted in a 13-5 congressional district advantage. That was despite Democrats having won the state in five straight presidential elections at the time.

Democrats need to win a net of 24 seats to win a majority in the U.S. House.

The decision comes on the same day a federal court dismissed a lawsuit filed by Republican congressmen challenging the new map. It's a double gut punch to the GOP and all but guarantees that Democrats pick up a few seats, and in an election with control of Congress at stake, every seat counts. Read more





Hooray, in a stunning upset, Democrat Conor Lamb last week won hotly-contested election in Pennsylvania’s 18th Congressional District. Thanks to gerrymandering by the Republicans, it is, the mother of all red district.

Republican Tim Murphy who disgracefully resigned from the House seat, had won the district by 34 points in 2010 and by 28 points in 2012. And ran unopposed in the 2014 and 2016 general elections.

In the presidential election 2012, Mitt Romney defeated former Pres Obama with 17 points.

In the presidential election 2016, Trump carried the district by nearly 20 points.

More than 95% population are white, only 33% are college graduates, it has substantial number of Steelworkers and coal miners, in other words, white working class without college degree, rustbelt voters, they overwhelmingly supported Trump in the last election and were considered Trump’s powerful base. But now it seems Trump is losing some support among them.







Conor Lamb Democrat victory speech





Conor Lamb supporters celebrating his victory.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Lamb seems like a good man, not like one of those GOP warmongers like Trump.


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## RabzonKhan

recon scout said:


> lol nobody cares about these "comedian" leftist hacks
> 
> Donald J Trump = 45th President of the United States of America.
> 
> late night loser leftists hacks = comedians.
> 
> funny thing is, President Trump wipes the floor with them when it comes to comedy too..


Well, the bottom line is, Trump’s 75 minutes of circus was a big flop, he failed in his mission, his candidate lost. 



Gomig-21 said:


> Our weekly dose of Trump bashing is due, Rabzon. Here we go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This one is excellent! Love the creativity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOOOOOOOL!


Thanks for the laughs

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## recon scout

RabzonKhan said:


> Well, the bottom line is, Trump’s 75 minutes of circus was a big flop, he failed in his mission, his candidate lost.


yep, lost bigly, with a yuge less than 1000 vote margin. Honestly, haven't paid too much attention to it but the winner was apparently leaning firmly to the right on stuff like gun control etc ? 

Rabzon mian, not my country, not my business.. don't care about your local politics there, why should I ? 

but take off these partisan horse blinders about the guy, maybe you hate him for your reasons and that is fine, keep hating.. 

but please realize that this is a very charismatic man, his superpowers are showmanship.. he wielded them brilliantly all through 15 and 16.. look where he is now. 

He actually began his campaign with the Obama birther stuff in 2012 or around that, the birther stuff might or might not be true, but it should not be such blasphemy to question things in a place like the USA

Stormy Daniels, and isn't she lovely <3

is NOT going to stop him being reelected


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

recon scout said:


> yep, lost bigly, with a yuge less than 1000 vote margin. Honestly, haven't paid too much attention to it but the winner was apparently leaning firmly to the right on stuff like gun control etc ?
> 
> Rabzon mian, not my country, not my business.. don't care about your local politics there, why should I ?
> 
> but take off these partisan horse blinders about the guy, maybe you hate him for your reasons and that is fine, keep hating..
> 
> but please realize that this is a very charismatic man, his superpowers are showmanship.. he wielded them brilliantly all through 15 and 16.. look where he is now.
> 
> He actually began his campaign with the Obama birther stuff in 2012 or around that, the birther stuff might or might not be true, but it should not be such blasphemy to question things in a place like the USA
> 
> Stormy Daniels, and isn't she lovely <3
> 
> is NOT going to stop him being reelected



Trump is a racist man who openly hates Muslims and in cahoots with another racist Netanyahu and warmongering bombing Iran. He is not fit to be leader of the free world.


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## recon scout

undertakerwwefan said:


> Trump is a racist man who openly hates Muslims and in cahoots with another racist Netanyahu and warmongering bombing Iran. He is not fit to be leader of the free world.


you missed these 3:


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

*Trump May Be Deposed in ‘Apprentice’ Groping Lawsuit*

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-apprentice-suit-saying-he-lied-about-groping

*Ex-Playmate Sues Tabloid Publisher for Burying Trump Story*

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ues-tabloid-publisher-for-burying-trump-story


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/976532956557737984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/976535330835836929


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## Gomig-21

recon scout said:


> but please realize that this is a very charismatic man, his superpowers are showmanship..



Most definitely, but reaching quite a new and unprecedented low.
Nope, this is not some 8th grader taking about another 8th grader, this is the current president of the United States of America.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/976765417908776963

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## recon scout

Gomig-21 said:


> Most definitely, but reaching quite a new and unprecedented low.
> Nope, this is not some 8th grader taking about another 8th grader, this is the current president of the United States of America.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/976765417908776963


you fail to mention what it is that "crazy" Joe Biden has been saying about him 

Trump, man ! 

he is not a racist, he does not hate minorities or muslims, he is not "far right" in any sense of the word.. you guys got the coolest President ever.. cherish the rest of these (hopefully 7) years, you fools.

Crooked Hillary cant so much as walk up (or down) a flight of stairs.. that disgusting bitch, be grateful, guys.. you got saved, big league.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

*Schumer praises Trump's China trade crackdown*

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/379738-schumer-praises-trumps-china-trade-crackdown


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

*Trump replaces H.R. McMaster as national security adviser with John Bolton*

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/22/poli...l-security-adviser-mcmaster-bolton/index.html


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Thanks for the laughs



Currently watching the Karen McDougal interview by Anderson Cooper on CNN wow, that is some crazy stuff. Makes you wonder how funny the timing of the McMaster letgo yet again on Twitter by this guy and what a lame attempt at using that to distract from this highly anticipated interview that is airing as I type this! Commercial break ATM and next she's going to reveal the first time she ran into Melania after having an intimate relationship with him for months. Wow.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/22/politics/karen-mcdougal-donald-trump/index.html

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## recon scout

Who the hell cares if Trump banged these women, good for him.. 

He's the president now, surely there are more pressing issues that people should be worried about ?


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## Gomig-21

recon scout said:


> you fail to mention what it is that "crazy" Joe Biden has been saying about him
> 
> Trump, man !



Joe Biden is a civilian now, he can say whatever he wants. This goon is the president of the United States which comes with a certain expected level of behavior, decorum and diplomacy, not this childish crap. It's bad enough the US is despised around the world we don't need this tool bag to make matters worst with his perpetual lies, his outlandish and disgusting behavior, his chaotic inability to fill all the positions in the WH that are required, the mockery he's made of the highest position in the world. An idiot who doesn't understand that the president needs to be at the daily briefings EVERYDAY lol. This guy is a clown of the highest order.

You younglings and millennials don't understand these things. The boat has sailed and you missed all of that. You look at how people treat each other on twitter or facebook or like on this forum here and think that's ok for someone like the president of the US to be, or "it's cool man it's funny I love this guy he's crazy!" That's the sad road we're heading to. Sad. 



recon scout said:


> he is not a racist,



lol, of course he is. Go back and follow his and his family's life. How quick we forget the things he said during the campaign. 



recon scout said:


> he does not hate minorities or muslims,



Damn right he does but I don't blame you if you live in India and aren't up to speed on all that has happened since he's miraculously taken office. Or has followed this clown through at least the past 20 years. 



recon scout said:


> he is not "far right" in any sense of the word..



This is the only part I agree with you but who cares about that when he's just plain crazy!? And he just hired the most far-right extremist war mongering pig as the NS adviser so he's teetering on the brink of far right lunacy, especially with that pawn of a vice president he picked but I'd rather see Pence in charge (despite this kind of lunacy) than this pile of dung. 



recon scout said:


> you guys got the coolest President ever.. cherish the rest of these (hopefully 7) years, you fools.



Coolest? That's what it's about, image? Look at the history of US presidents and even the dimwitted GWB had more class than this lugnut. This goon is the gutter of US presidents. He's the sewage of US presidents. His statue will be the only one vandalized with graffiti and derogatory curses. 

Only a fool can hope he gets reelected. We can only hope he never lasts to the end of this disaster of a term and the greatest economy in the world with a $19 trillion GDP doesn't fall too far down the gutter before the next guy can have a chance to pull it back out and save us from what this disaster of a subhuman cretin is doing to it. 

He's so lucky that he reaped the accomplishments of the Obama era in his first year and how with the stock market taking a 3% crash in one day just yesterday, because of this jerk and where is he with his tweets of taking credit like he was when it was soaring? lol, he's the worst kind of hypocrite. He's a crazy bastard and a total disgrace between him and that entire criminal family of his that surrounds him and has access to this great country's most important secrets. It's actually frightening. 

One thing for sure, it says a lot about how the population of the United States sees things, and the division that exists.



recon scout said:


> Crooked Hillary cant so much as walk up (or down) a flight of stairs.. that disgusting bitch, be grateful, guys.. you got saved, big league.



No offense, but we don't care about the business the Trump family has and does in India. I know he's loved there but that has zero relevance for us here. That doesn't shape our opinion of him. We worry about what this crazy lunatic fool will do next to ruin this country. We can only hope that he's outta here before that happens.



recon scout said:


> Who the hell cares if Trump banged these women, good for him..
> 
> He's the president now, surely there are more pressing issues that people should be worried about ?



Oh there certainly are MANY pressing issues, mainly a white house administration that is in turmoil and in chaos!

And we do care about these things because they're a huge indication of an individual's character, let alone the president of the United States! You might not care in New Deli but that's irrelevant for us here. No one wants a disgraceful lowlife in office who enjoys groping women (who obviously lied about all these women he had affairs with) and lies and lies and lies again and again and again are you kidding me. Guess what, the last time a Democrat got a BJ under the oval office desk, the republicans did everything they could to impeach him lol. You're probably too young to remember that but that's the kind of thing that goes on in this partisan world.

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## recon scout




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## RabzonKhan

*






Suburban voters angry with Trump threaten GOP’s grip on House*

The Washington Post 
Kari Lydersen, Michael Scherer

In a suburb outside of Chicago, Sullivan is determined to replace her congressman, six-term Rep. Peter J. Roskam (R), whom she has supported in the past. His sin, she said, was his affiliation with President Trump.

“Just the lack of respect for women, the authoritarianism, it’s too much,” said Sullivan, 47, a digital consultant. “As a professional woman, it’s very difficult for me to reconcile.”

She is not alone. In Illinois’ 6th Congressional District, 62,990 people voted Democratic last week for seven candidates, up from just 8,615 in the 2014 primary. In a district that voted for Mitt Romney in 2012 and Hillary Clinton in 2016, a warning is being sent in letters as big and bold as any that have hung on a Trump building.

*If Republicans want to hold onto the House, they will have to compete in communities that had little to do with the working-class regions that sent Trump to the White House in 2016: affluent, white-collar suburbs of Democratic cities. Many of the most competitive House seats this year are in the tony bedroom communities of Los Angeles, Chicago, Denver, Houston, Philadelphia, New York and Washington.*

The balancing act for these Republicans is appealing to moderate voters enraged by Trump while trying to avoid alienating a party base enamored with the president. Democrats had targeted Roskam early on — a GOP incumbent in a Clinton seat. Beyond those races, the Democrats’ House win this month in a suburban-and-rural Pennsylvania district Trump won handily, as well as last year’s wins in Alabama and Virginia, underscore that dozens more districts are competitive.

*Suburban voters tend to be richer and better-educated than the country as a whole. That is bad news for Republicans, who are struggling with a massive divide among white voters. Those with college degrees disapprove of the president by a margin of about 20 points. Those without college degrees approve of him by nearly the same margin.*

*Residents of the 21 Republican seats recently rated by the Cook Political Report to be the most vulnerable to Democratic takeover have a median household income 33 percent higher than the country as a whole, according to an analysis by The Washington Post. Thirty percent of the voters in those districts are college-educated whites, well higher than the 23 percent average for the country. Read more

*




recon scout said:


> yep, lost bigly, with a yuge less than 1000 vote margin. Honestly, haven't paid too much attention to it but the winner was apparently leaning firmly to the right on stuff like gun control etc ?
> 
> Rabzon mian, not my country, not my business.. don't care about your local politics there, why should I ?
> 
> but take off these partisan horse blinders about the guy, maybe you hate him for your reasons and that is fine, keep hating..
> 
> but please realize that this is a very charismatic man, his superpowers are showmanship.. he wielded them brilliantly all through 15 and 16.. look where he is now.
> 
> He actually began his campaign with the Obama birther stuff in 2012 or around that, the birther stuff might or might not be true, but it should not be such blasphemy to question things in a place like the USA
> 
> Stormy Daniels, and isn't she lovely <3
> 
> is NOT going to stop him being reelected


You may try to downplay it, which I can understand, but trust me, Trump and the Republican establishment did not see it that way, after all, this was a district gerrymandered by and for the Republican, for them it was a YUGE loss. Trump tried everything he could, he went there twice to campaign for Saccone, he also sent his VP Mike Pence, his son, daughter and aide Kellyanne Conway there. The timing of Trump’s announcement of tariffs on steel and aluminum was seen by many as an effort by him to help Saccone, but lol, nothing worked.

As I explained in my previous post, Republican Rep Tim Murphy, who disgracefully resigned last year, had won the district by 34 points in 2010 and by 28 points in 2012, and didn’t even have a Democratic challenger in 2014 and 2016. Even though Pres Obama had won the state, but Mitt Romney defeated him with 17 points and Trump carried the district by nearly 20 points. Based on these results, Conor Lamb, outperformed his partisan baseline by more than 22 points.

He is a Conservative Democrat, also commonly known as the blue dog Democrat. The funny thing is that before the election, Trump and the Republicans were portraying him as a hardcore Liberal, but after he won the election they falsely started claiming that he had run to the right, which, of course, was a lie. The fact is, Conor Lamb supported enhanced background check system quite similar to what the Democrat Sen Joe Manchin and Republican Sen Patrick Toomey had proposed, unfortunately, their background checks proposal was defeated in the Senate by the Republicans. He also opposed Trump/Republican corporate tax cuts, and strongly opposed Trump/Republican agenda against Social Security, Medicare and Obamacare.



recon scout said:


> Trump fights back, he’ll get in the gutter and beat you to a pulp if you sling shit at him


But, he never fights back against Stormy Daniels and Comrade Putin?

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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/375705302382817281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/976948306927607810
Told you, he is a sham! During the presidential campaign he repeatedly criticized Bush administration for the Iraq war, just recently, he called the invasion of Iraq “the single worst decision ever made”, but now he’s made pro-Iraq war neocon, John Bolton, his national security adviser. I think Trump is not going to ratify the Iran agreement, May 12 is the deadline.

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## RabzonKhan

*The News in Cartoons














*

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## RabzonKhan

Sinclair Broadcast Group owns close to 200 local TV stations, has become Trump’s propaganda mouthpiece, it reminds me of what I have read about Pakistan’s PTV. In the 60s Pakistan used to have just one TV channel, PTV (Pakistan television Corporation), it was a propaganda mouthpiece for successive governments, but thank goodness those days are gone, today Pakistan has many private channels and the media is considered quite free.

Sinclair, for a long time has been spreading BS right-wing propaganda, since Trump was elected, it now spreads pro-Trump propaganda and echo his talking points, in other words, Trump has hundreds of PTV’s at his service.

But now, shamelessly they have gone little further, they are forcing all its news anchors across the country to parrot Trump’s “fake news” BS.

Here’s an example:

The Post-Intelligencer published one of the scripts this week; in it, the authors lament the “trend of irresponsible, one sided news stories” and the “sharing of biased and false news,” referencing President Trump’s preferred term for the press, “fake news.”

Hi, I’m(A) ____________, and I’m (B) _________________…

(B) Our greatest responsibility is to serve our Northwest communities. We are extremely proud of the quality, balanced journalism that KOMO News produces.

(A) But we’re concerned about the troubling trend of irresponsible, one sided news stories plaguing our country. The sharing of biased and false news has become all too common on social media., Blah, blah, blah.

Now watch the video and be amazed:

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## Nilgiri

Now watch the response and be amazed:






(22.24 minute mark)

But of course Ben Shapiro is clearly Nazi Alt right so what does he know

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## RabzonKhan

Another sweet victory, the blue wave continues! 




*Republican Walker sounds alarm, Democrats see hope after win*

Associated Press. SCOTT BAUER 

*MADISON, Wis. (AP) — The dominating victory by a liberal candidate in Wisconsin's Supreme Court race emboldened Democrats deflated by years of defeats, pushing Republican Gov. Scott Walker to issue a series of warnings Wednesday about a possible "blue wave" in the red state.*

*Democrats heralded Rebecca Dallet's victory as the clearest sign yet voters are back on their side after seven years of Republican control of the Wisconsin Statehouse and Donald Trump's 1-point victory in the state in 2016.*

"Last night is another indication that every Republican in Wisconsin should be running scared," said Democratic strategist Joe Zepecki on Wednesday. "The progressive candidate here over-performed recent history in every type of community, rural, urban, suburban, exurban and that puts everything in play for this fall."

Walker, who is up for re-election in November, extolled supporters on Twitter to see the warning signs.

"We are at risk of a Blue Wave in Wisconsin," Walker said in a fundraising email Wednesday. "After these two defeats, it is clear that our big bold reforms are in jeopardy."

Democratic U.S. Sen. Tammy Baldwin, a top GOP target, also is on the ballot in November, along with the entire state Assembly and half the Senate.





The Associated Press FILE - In this June. 1, 2017, file photo, Milwaukee County Circuit Judge and Wisconsin Supreme Court candidate, Rebecca Dallet poses for a photo in Madison, Wis. The battle for a supposedly nonpartisan seat on the Wisconsin…


*Dallet won 24 counties across the state that Trump had carried in 2016, a troubling sign for Republicans. Her win also comes after a surprise Democratic victory in a special state Senate election that had been under Republican control for 17 years and that Trump carried.*

Three months ago, Walker called the special election loss a "wake up call."

Those two wins, coupled with Doug Jones' victory over Republican Roy Moore for an Alabama U.S. Senate seat in December, shows Democrats are on pace for big gains nationally in November, said Paul Maslin, a Wisconsin-based national Democratic pollster.

"Everything is lining up in one direction," Maslin said. "There's no question they're headed for a major defeat and we're headed for a major victory. ... Our people are motivated and are taking action in the best way possible which is at the ballot box."

But Republicans argue spring elections — where turnout is roughly half of what it will be in November — are poor indicators of what will happen in the fall. Still, longtime political observers in Wisconsin on both sides agreed the win emphasizes that Democrats are more energized at the moment than Republicans.

"It's clearly a wake-up call," said Republican strategist Brandon Scholz. "I don't think a poorly run campaign makes a blue wave, but I do think the Republicans are challenged with having to draw the passion factor equal."

Walker last month was forced to call special elections for two other legislative vacancies after three judges ordered him to proceed against his wishes. Those elections, for seats that had been held by Republicans until they left to join Walker's administration, will be June 12.

*Martha Laning, director of the Wisconsin Democratic Party, cast the Dallet victory was a referendum on Walker since he had endorsed her opponent in the officially nonpartisan race.

"How many more wake-up calls do Walker and the GOP need before they realize their extremism is out-of-touch with Wisconsin values?" Laning said.*

*Dallet trounced conservative challenger Michael Screnock by 12 points — 56 percent to 44 percent — to become the first liberal candidate to win election to the Wisconsin Supreme Court when there's an open seat since 1995. *Her victory means that six of the seven seats on the state's highest court will be women, but conservatives will still control it 4-3.

Only Washington state has more women on its highest court, but in percentage terms Wisconsin is the highest, according to the University of Minnesota's Smart Politics.

*Turnout was 22.2 percent, the highest for a spring election since 2011 and second-highest over the past 12 Supreme Court elections.*

Dallet's candidacy won support from national Democrats, something never-before-seen in a state Supreme Court race, with an endorsement from U.S. Sen. Cory Booker, of New Jersey, former Vice President Joe Biden recording robocalls and a group run by former U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder dumping half a million dollars into the contest.

Holder, who sued to force Walker to call the two upcoming legislative special elections, said the Dallet win was really about Walker.

"Under the leadership of Scott Walker and his administration, the right to vote has been systematically attacked and the concerns of corporations, outside special interests and the Republican party placed ahead of the people," he said in a statement. "Today, the voters of Wisconsin took a critical first step toward a state government that better reflects their needs and interests." Source




Nilgiri said:


> Now watch the response and be amazed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (22.24 minute mark)
> 
> But of course Ben Shapiro is clearly Nazi Alt right so what does he know


Sorry, I don’t have the time to watch the clip now, but I will check it out tonight.

Cheers.

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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> Sorry, I don’t have the time to watch the clip now, but I will check it out tonight.
> 
> Cheers.



Hope you are well my friend and good to see you still active here heh.

BTW Ben Shapiro is worth subscribing to, just to get the other side perspective (without being "Trumptard" etc) on the matters of note. Extra information and perspective never hurts after all.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Trump passes Obama in approval rating

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...p_administration/prez_track_apr04?fullbrowser


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## Gomig-21

Nilgiri said:


> Now watch the response and be amazed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (22.24 minute mark)
> 
> But of course Ben Shapiro is clearly Nazi Alt right so what does he know



He's actually pretty level-headed. And he's right about Laura Ingraham that she shouldn't be fired for what she said. Despite the fact that it was really uncalled for and she has a big mouth, she's entitled to that big mouth and I'm sure she's aware that there are consequences for what media personalities say, especially ones of her caliber. But what she said about David Hogg was definitely stupid and even childish but even so, she doesn't deserve to be fired for that. Chastised, maybe. Lose some of her sponsors, ok. Fired? No. And Shapiro even brought up CNN's Brian Seltzer commenting that whatever Ingraham said and said the same thing, she wasn't deserving of a firing. I agree, a balanced perspective is a very good thing.

Latest developments are pretty interesting. Trump not getting his financing for the wall in the last package is trying something else. After saying he would use part of the military budget to "protect the border" he's getting the "army" which is in this case the National Guard deployed to guard a stretch of land along the border that belongs to the army which amounts to roughly 30 miles out of the 1900+ long border. I think that's hilarious since I'm not sure if illegals would actually cross army-owned land areas where they're stationed? It's a desperate sign. 

And all the criticism of previous presidents is just awful. He's so tactless when it comes to his self-aggrandizing and trying to stroke his own image by insulting previous presidents is actually not only just another reflection of his horrible character, but it's just a further step by this guy in the painful destruction of the reputation of what was once the hallowed presidency of the United States. 

I ironic part is his terrible criticism always comes back and slaps him in the face, just like it did again this week when he said the US is pulling out of Syria when all he touted about during the campaign on many occasions that he would ever advertise the military's moves lol. What a shlep.

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## Nilgiri

Gomig-21 said:


> He's actually pretty level-headed. And he's right about Laura Ingraham that she shouldn't be fired for what she said. Despite the fact that it was really uncalled for and she has a big mouth, she's entitled to that big mouth and I'm sure she's aware that there are consequences for what media personalities say, especially ones of her caliber. But what she said about David Hogg was definitely stupid and even childish but even so, she doesn't deserve to be fired for that. Chastised, maybe. Lose some of her sponsors, ok. Fired? No. And Shapiro even brought up CNN's Brian Seltzer commenting that whatever Ingraham said and said the same thing, she wasn't deserving of a firing. I agree, a balanced perspective is a very good thing.



Agree about the Ben analysis, its why I really watch him, he sort of represents the "logic-driven center" to me now....that nice place to be for me at one time (and I still have much grounding there)....that I still like to check whats going on with finger to the wind etc.

All I want is equal standards applied to everyone. Certain media ppl have been attacking Kyle Kashuv (another parkland survivor that is not quite in the MSM limelight like Hogg ....namely because he is pro gun rights and thus inconvenient to cover) quite atrociously (not calling them simply whiner etc but all sort of nasty nasty stuff, like real libel kind of stuff), but apparently thats completely fine according to many of the same people crying foul about Laura.



Gomig-21 said:


> Latest developments are pretty interesting. Trump not getting his financing for the wall in the last package is trying something else. After saying he would use part of the military budget to "protect the border" he's getting the "army" which is in this case the National Guard deployed to guard a stretch of land along the border that belongs to the army which amounts to roughly 30 miles out of the 1900+ long border. I think that's hilarious since I'm not sure if illegals would actually cross army-owned land areas where they're stationed? It's a desperate sign.



Its a fine idea to do imo (Ben is also supportive of it overall). Dubya and Obama both did this at various times too.

California probably won't be part of it (yay for Jerry Brown!), but it will afford extra protection in the current holes from Brownsville to about Yuma....till the proper wall funding is acquired later.

Besides if there are good results, won't the left's argument that a wall really isn't needed be bolstered?  Left really should pick a consistent argument (and then we can actually debate the logic of it using facts) rather than rail against everything on the Anti-Trump feelz. Swing voters are already getting quite tired and weary of it (just like with the Trump tweeting and uninformed over-reactions etc).



Gomig-21 said:


> And all the criticism of previous presidents is just awful. He's so tactless when it comes to his self-aggrandizing and trying to stroke his own image by insulting previous presidents is actually not only just another reflection of his horrible character, but it's just a further step by this guy in the painful destruction of the reputation of what was once the hallowed presidency of the United States.



Part of Trump's nature . I'm no fan of the way Obama and his henchmen in the PACs went after Mitt Romney in (quite untrue but optically expedient) character assassin way....nor how Obama now feels its ok to criticize (esp in the way he has) a current president, out of line with what the policy has always been thus far. Nor how Obama weaponised the IRS against the Tea Party...and the multitude of other things he did past the exterior presentation/optics*.

*Which in Canada's case Trudeau has over-commited too and is very likely a one term PM as a result.

Look I get Trump is a bit of a brash sleazeball rather than a hidden under-current one that Presidents tend to be (there's a hillarious line from the TV Show _Mindhunter** _when the guy asks the psychology expert...._which presidents were sociopaths?_..... and she answers..._erm which ones weren't?_ LOL).....but I think the US overall (and especially since the Clinton/Monica + other women + bimbo eruption squad of Hillary etc.. thing) have moved on to judging really by policy rather than character (not saying this is a good thing, its just what has happened).

**which i highly recommend btw if you havent watched

This is the only reason why Trump still does well with say Evangelical support, even though he is clearly less than ideal character wise for what an Evangelical would espouse in a person. Ben also analyses this phenomenon well if you follow him.



Gomig-21 said:


> I ironic part is his terrible criticism always comes back and slaps him in the face, just like it did again this week when he said the US is pulling out of Syria when all he touted about during the campaign on many occasions that he would ever advertise the military's moves lol. What a shlep.



Its not even in the top 75% percentile of the larger phenomenon/trend with announcement/attack/blah on twitter + scaleback (and how that fits in with the consistency of the earlier campaign platforms) tbh really. Again this is all being baked into the wider public perception of Trump now. The delivery/policy sandwich will be what charges the base (with the hot sauce of the extra stuff that they like) for their turnout....the swing vote doesn't care and/or hates the hot sauce but will judge on the sandwich made regarding turnout.....and the lefties/hard dems/anti-trumpsters simply hate trump hot sauce and all trump sandwiches period LOL...and will turnout to voice that. Lets see how it all goes down.

I for one feel the left will have to deliver a much cleaner, concise and relevant message to USA. Otherwise they are just going to (even when they take over at some point the presidency again) will simply stoke an even bigger Trumpian figure down the road. It really shouldnt be a game of who can polarise and coalesce more to the extremes (which by current measures favours the left currently given near full control of the traditional routes of information/perception and large domination of the new alternatives still).....very sad to see this taking root....it will spell doom if left unchecked....it comes from a primal feel that if I cant win/prosper in some way I perceive individually, I will the salt the land so no one can....and the country shall only exist by tyranny of majority period and for nothing else (Jefferson warned about this big time). Such a condition breaks apart anything over time, even something as great, mighty and as close to theoretical political ideal (imo) as the USA.

@Joe Shearer @Desert Fox

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## katsung47

Saudi crown prince bragged that Jared Kushner gave him CIA intelligence about other Saudis saying 'here are your enemies' days before 'corruption crackdown' which led to torture and death

5 April 2018 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-handed-U-S-intelligence.html#ixzz5CIz1PiyB


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## Gomig-21

Pretty amazing pic at Barbara Bush's funeral.






And another one.

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## Nilgiri

Gomig-21 said:


> Pretty amazing pic at Barbara Bush's funeral.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another one.



Apparently Barbara Bush's bodyguards stood on vigil 24/7 next to her casket till the final burial. Respect to them for that.

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## Gomig-21

lol.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/989172750899179520
Melania looked good today with that outfit and hat, though, even if she didn't want to hold the creep's hand LOL.

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## Nilgiri

Gomig-21 said:


> lol.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/989172750899179520
> Melania looked good today with that outfit and hat, though, even if she didn't want to hold the creep's hand LOL.



You can select photo at any moment since they are snapped a million in series 

They were holding hands nicely/casually when receiving the Macrons....video matters much more for judgement imo.

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## Gomig-21

Nilgiri said:


> You can select photo at any moment since they are snapped a million in series
> 
> They were holding hands nicely/casually when receiving the Macrons....video matters much more for judgement imo.


 
Yeah but that was funny how he crept in there with his pinky first, kinda carefully making his way in there since that one time she batted that little hand away, lol.

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## Nilgiri

Gomig-21 said:


> Yeah but that was funny how he crept in there with his pinky first, kinda carefully making his way in there since that one time she batted that little hand away, lol.



Yeah the pinky was hillarious....yes yes yes???....and NO


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## Nilgiri

=====================

 @kanye tweets + bigly triggering it has caused

@Desert Fox @Hamartia Antidote @undertakerwwefan 

Looks like finally, a few black celebrities are making a break out of the groupthink plantation, saying screw the Pravda BS.....and realising its pretty fun mocking those that staunchly remain behind ( who are getting triggered at all of this big time). Hopefully it creates an even larger defection over time.






About first 30 minutes (feel free to skip thru, its pretty hillarious + serious analysis in parts):






If a chunk of woke, red pilled black people form (i.e I have heard as small as 5 - 10% swing needed in some places)....its basically game over for democrat party....they invested all they had into the far left identity politics....now they are getting their comeuppance and karma.

I am watching with interest  @Ashes @Mage @Gomig-21 

BTW @Desert Fox , I told ya it was just kabuki part II in syria.

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## 24 Hours

Nilgiri said:


> =====================
> 
> @kanye tweets + bigly triggering it has caused
> 
> @Desert Fox @Hamartia Antidote @undertakerwwefan
> 
> Looks like finally, a few black celebrities are making a break out of the groupthink plantation, saying screw the Pravda BS.....and realising its pretty fun mocking those that staunchly remain behind ( who are getting triggered at all of this big time). Hopefully it creates an even larger defection over time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About first 30 minutes (feel free to skip thru, its pretty hillarious + serious analysis in parts):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If a chunk of woke, red pilled black people form (i.e I have heard as small as 5 - 10% swing needed in some places)....its basically game over for democrat party....they invested all they had into the far left identity politics....now they are getting their comeuppance and karma.
> 
> I am watching with interest  @Ashes @Mage @Gomig-21
> 
> BTW @Desert Fox , I told ya it was just kabuki part II in syria.


I'm not seeing much enthusiasm for Trump among blacks aside from a few cases like Kanye. Though the trend of not caring about both parties definitely feels present. 

Didn't Kanye already endorse him before?

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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> =====================
> 
> @kanye tweets + bigly triggering it has caused
> 
> @Desert Fox @Hamartia Antidote @undertakerwwefan
> 
> Looks like finally, a few black celebrities are making a break out of the groupthink plantation, saying screw the Pravda BS.....and realising its pretty fun mocking those that staunchly remain behind ( who are getting triggered at all of this big time). Hopefully it creates an even larger defection over time.
> 
> 
> 
> About first 30 minutes (feel free to skip thru, its pretty hillarious + serious analysis in parts):
> 
> 
> 
> If a chunk of woke, red pilled black people form (i.e I have heard as small as 5 - 10% swing needed in some places)....its basically game over for democrat party....they invested all they had into the far left identity politics....now they are getting their comeuppance and karma.
> 
> I am watching with interest  @Ashes @Mage @Gomig-21


Wow, man that's good  look at CNN's reaction!! @Mark Dice's facial expressions/reaction is priceless as usual.

I believe Kanye endorsed Trump during the 2016 election campaign. It's good to see his wife and in-laws backing him though and other Black rappers coming out in support for him too.

But the reaction of the MSM is what's extremely childish and rash. Calling Kanye a "darling" of the Alt-Right, like really? 


Nilgiri said:


> BTW @Desert Fox , I told ya it was just kabuki part II in syria.


True, you were right. Hopefully it will never exceed that point.

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## Nilgiri

Ashes said:


> I'm not seeing much enthusiasm for Trump among blacks aside from a few cases like Kanye. Though the trend of not caring about both parties definitely feels present.
> 
> Didn't Kanye already endorse him before?



Point is now the far left (and Ben correctly asks why the hell does far left crap become the mainstream left position in less than 5 minutes?) is overtly (even with those people that are not into politics in social media) taking the position that only their think is the correct one and you are literally evil if you leave them in any way that they also define. 

This is exactly what Leia meant when she said "the tighter you grip, the more slips through your fingers".....and with the black community there need not really be a mass shift or anything....just a 10% (or even as low as 5%) swing away from democrats ruins the political strategy for them. 

Going after Kanye like this (who now easily solidifies the freethinker position with little effort) for pretty much no reason (Kanye has said he also "loves" Hillary, his wife was a fundraiser for Hillary etc)....after having previously made him into a darling (when he went after Bush as "not liking black people")....is definitely a real stupid, desperate thing to do for the far-left/left (it will only blowback now, and take away sensitive % points of broader support)...but I guess their nature just cannot help it....it is all about absolute control, with strait jackets long term if needed.

I am no fan of Kanye, his wife or the rest of the hollywood/music industry ppl, BUT the point is he has illustrated just how easily triggered the left becomes when you decide to shift from them even a little bit....and more importantly that it is FUN to trigger them 



Desert Fox said:


> I believe Kanye endorsed Trump during the 2016 election campaign. It's good to see his wife and in-laws backing him though and other Black rappers coming out in support for him too.
> 
> But the reaction of the MSM is what's extremely childish and rash. Calling Kanye a "darling" of the Alt-Right, like really?



Yep watch the domino effect. Its about time a few woke celebrities called this all out as a free thinking vs controlled 1984 big brother....rather than the plain grey "left vs right" stuff the left wants it to be.



Desert Fox said:


> True, you were right. Hopefully it will never exceed that point.



Yep...there is a pattern here of interplay between Trump and Deep State that is quite interesting all by itself.

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## Nilgiri

@Mage @Joe Shearer @Gibbs @Godman @jhungary @Vergennes @Ashes

Would like for you all to read this (when you have a little time to spare) and tell me what you think of it.

https://www.heritage.org/political-...overnment-how-government-shapes-the-character

A Moral Case Against Big Government: How Government Shapes the Character, Vision, and Virtue of Citizens
by Ryan Messmore

*Introduction*

To advocate good government is to recognize the indispensable role that political authority plays in a healthy community. To advocate limited government is to understand that not everything necessary for a community to be healthy is the responsibility of government. A good but limited government is one that serves its citizens by exercising well its particular task and refraining from other tasks. Essential to government's particular task is ensuring that other social institutions are free to exercise their own particular tasks.

Identifying the proper tasks and limits of various social institutions is bound up with a society's understanding of the good life and the good community-its moral vision of its defining goods and purposes. The case for good, limited government is therefore incomplete if it proceeds only in terms of the effects upon individual freedom or the fiscal implications of expanded government programs. Governing is a moral task, and the size and scope of government have moral implications for society, including its members' ability to fulfill their ethical obligations to one another.

The primary task of government is administering judgment according to standards of justice. Because law by its very nature concerns moral judgments, a government that stands under the rule of law presupposes the existence of a moral order, expresses the social concept of that order, and in turn encourages the fundamental moral principles of a society, particularly regarding justice. Citizens' assumptions and expectations of government therefore shape not only their national character, but also their approach to issues like poverty and economic justice. Moreover, our assumptions about government influence the formation of the social bonds required to cultivate virtue, and thus sustain freedom, as well as the way citizens think about and relate to neighbors in need.

Sustaining limited government and freedom turns on the question of how virtue is cultivated and which communities and institutions are most appropriate for this task. Local forms of association, especially the family and religious congregations, generate the thick, personal bonds that unite and motivate individuals toward the good for themselves and others. The proper exercise of political authority articulates a society's understanding of good through law and enacts judgment upon those who violate it through certain acts of wrongdoing. Citizens thus render a proper level of trust and appreciation for the crucial role that good government plays in a healthy society.

As government assumes greater political authority, however, it is more able to shape the terms of public discourse and draw to itself expectations and levels of trust beyond those appropriate to good government, often at the expense of smaller institutions of civil society. Such a shift in the public's attitude toward expansive government can weaken democracy, given that diversification of authority among local associations is a strong check against government tyranny. Moreover, not only does unhealthy reliance upon government social programs discourage genuine compassion and personal relations between wealthy and poor citizens, but the cost of funding such programs actually threatens future generations with unsustainable debt. A good but limited government will thus acknowledge that other social institutions are better able to cultivate virtuous citizens, care for those in need, and further true democratic freedom while exercising its own crucial responsibility to protect its citizens and social institutions from injustice.


*How Big Government Shapes Public Imagination*

Today the United States government claims responsibility to provide a vast number of goods and services, which increases its potential to influence the attitudes and expectations-the public imagination-of its citizens.

The national government provides all citizens with protection of basic freedoms, national security and defense, a judicial court system, federal prisons, immigration control, stable financial markets, free trade, and a national currency.
It also aims to provide a reliable infrastructure, public schools, affordable energy, clean air and water, safe foods and medicines, innovative technologies, postal service, national parks and recreational sites, arts and humanities programs, emergency relief, space exploration, a national library, railroad corporation, archives, and botanic garden and numerous other goods.
In addition, federal social programs supply money, food stamps, housing, prescription drugs, medical care, transportation, training, counseling, rehabilitation programs, and other forms of care to the persistently poor, the provisionally poor, the elderly, the sick, the addicted, the immobile, the unemployed, the uneducated, the undereducated, the unmarried with children, children without parents, and children who are parents.

On the other side of the equation, the government expects citizens to render due allegiance in a variety of ways. At a minimum, the government asks its citizens to pledge allegiance to its flag; to value certain concepts such as individual freedom, religious liberty, popular sovereignty, and private ownership; to obey the rule of law and the rulings of the judicial process; and to be willing to fight and die for its defense. Most AmericThe Entitlement Mentality's Distortion of Our Vision of Moral Responsibilityans comply with such requests for allegiance, viewing them as both prudential and patriotic measures.

In other areas, government does not ask, but requires, certain actions. Citizens must pay taxes, meet official regulations, and obey specific laws to avoid fine or imprisonment. Most citizens also acknowledge these kinds of demands as necessary for a functioning nation-state (even if they disagree with specific policies and laws).

What goes less noticed is the subtle influence that the government's power of enforcement wields on the public imagination. The official, explicit, first-order authority to mandate payment of taxes and to enforce laws carries informal, implicit, derivative powers. These include the power to promote certain causes, prioritize certain risks, endorse certain values and beliefs, uphold certain standards, encourage certain expectations, and define and interpret certain terms. For example, the government dictates that American taxpayers must contribute to certain retirement savings mechanisms established by the government; give financial support to value-laden programs (such as diversity training in government agencies); and bankroll supposedly secular public schools whose curricula are inevitably embedded with assumptions about the true, good, and beautiful.

Moreover, the expansion of government carries over into the power to define influential legal categories and terms-such as what counts as discrimination, secular, and marriage. It also shapes social expectations and outlooks among citizens-such as where to look for assistance (the welfare state); who to blame in times of crisis (FEMA, the President, the Federal Reserve); and what people are entitled to by right (privacy, cheap prescription drugs, same-sex marriage, etc.).

The central place the government occupies among serious public discussions and debates about such issues as health care or welfare testifies to its centripetal influence over the thoughts and expectations of its citizens. Public discourse often implies that the national government is the primary-if not only-institution responsible for addressing pressing issues that face us as individuals and communities.

Rather than asking who should take responsibility for an issue (whether, family, neighborhood, government, religious congregation, etc.), the public debate too often blithely assumes that the answer is government and instead focuses on how it should address the problem. For example, when the issues of health care and welfare are raised in public discourse, they are often referenced in terms of "the health care debate" or "welfare reform" in general, with government as the implied referent. Seldom does public discourse acknowledge the possibility of other institutions taking an important role in addressing such issues: Seldom does it include talk of "this congregation's health care debate" (i.e., the discussion going on among a group of religious co-congregants about how they will address the health care needs within and around their community) or "that neighborhood's welfare reform" (i.e., the projects a community has undertaken to form a network of mutual support and interdependence for those in need). Government crowds out other institutions from the public imagination, and this is reflected and reinforced by prevailing public discourse.

In short, the powers to pass laws and collect taxes entail the power to define, to some extent, the terms of public understanding, involvement, and debate. In this way, government has power to help shape citizens' thoughts, words, and deeds and influence where they place their trust, hope, and expectations.[16]

Policymakers and government officials should neither ignore the power that comes with the exercise of political authority nor pretend that government's task can be morally neutral. A good but limited government should acknowledge that it governs according to a certain conception of good and right but has a limited role in bringing about or realizing that conception. The government's responsibility vis-à-vis the good and right is judgment: The government judges social relationships and activities in light of a moral vision.[17] This differs from a more expansive understanding of government's role-the kind that justifies the nanny state, whereby, for example, the state replaces local, non-government initiatives that actively pursue public goods with its own programs.

*Misplaced Allegiance Threatens Democracy*

Citizens' cultural allegiances to family, church, and local associations, claims Nisbet, are some of "the most powerful resources of democracy." [18] The diversification of authority and allegiance among social institutions helps to prevent any one institution from becoming too powerful. In the words of 19th century French priest and political writer Felicite Robert de Lamennais, "Who says liberty, says association." [19]

A healthy democratic society trusts its government to exercise certain defined tasks. Citizens actually weaken democracy, however, by placing in the government the trust, hope, and loyalty that properly belong to local associations. Government officials encourage this erosion when they use rhetoric that implies that they can "save" people from society's most serious problems by top-down social engineering or that government programs are primarily responsible for overcoming these ills. This comes close to utopian thinking, implying that the state has omnicompetence that rivals God's.

When government exercises power outside its proper boundaries, not only does it assume responsibilities that it is not qualified to fulfill, but it also undermines its legitimate task of protecting freedom and justice. By taking over the functions of smaller institutions, rendering them less socially relevant, government weakens the check against tyranny that diversification of authorities provides. A nation-state avoids both explicit and implicit establishment of religion when it encourages citizens to give government only the amount of trust, hope, and loyalty it deserves without diminishing their trust or allegiance in other institutions and authorities. The trust and loyalty that are appropriate to government derive from the indispensable role that it plays in promoting justice and punishing injustice in society, a function without which the social bonds and cooperative behavior that comprise healthy communities would be jeopardized.

In sum, the authority that citizens vest in government carries significant moral implications. The amount of responsibility ceded to or claimed by government can shape attitudes, motivations, expectations, and even the terms in which we debate public issues. Moreover, the government can influence the cultivation of character and the strength of social bonds by protecting virtue-forming institutions such as the family or religious congregations against unjust interference from other institutions, including the state.

Another important aspect of the government's moral influence upon society is its contribution toward a pervasive mentality that interprets the state's responsibility toward its citizens through a hyperindividualistic lens of entitlement. The case for a good but limited government should also recognize the deleterious effects of this mentality and the corresponding cost of government-funded social programs on our moral vision and the social relationships that bind us together.

*The Problematic Notion of Government as Provider*

The moral vision according to which government officials make judgments about the common good entails fundamental ideas about human nature, justice, moral obligation, and responsibility. Given the power of government to shape the attitudes and discourse of its citizenry, the particular moral notions dominant in government not only depend upon, but also contribute to and reinforce the moral vision of the larger society.

A conception of broad government responsibility to provide for those in need has exercised great influence since the days of Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal. This in turn has fed a notion of individual entitlement. "Necessitous men are not free men," said President Roosevelt in 1944, expounding a long list of goods that government should supply its citizens to ensure their freedom and security-which he called a new bill of rights-including decent housing, health care, and a good job.[20] Those who conceive of government responsibility and individual rights in this expansive way argue that the nation's responsibility to care for its citizens in need calls for more, not less, government power, authority, and spending. They often therefore justify ballooning federal budgets on moral grounds, assuming that corporate care and concern for other human beings must correlate with spending more on government-funded social programs.

A closer examination reveals that raising federal spending is not the only way that we can corporately address need, nor is it the most just, effective, compassionate, or responsible way to meet our moral obligations to those in need. The idea that individuals are owed an ever-increasing number of rights by the government weakens the concept of justice by approaching it only from the side of the isolated individual. Moreover, the "care" provided by government social programs-often in the form of impersonal checks-is less holistic and humanizing than that provided by smaller, more personal approaches.

Beyond being less just and compassionate, expensive government social programs can lead to additional unhealthy moral consequences, including damaging dependence on government handouts and unsustainable budget deficits for future generations. Finally, this "government as provider" mentality can foster a sense of resentment among taxpayers, sapping our propensity to give and receive gifts and misconstruing the social obligations that bind us together, thus further weakening the moral fiber of our nation.


*The Entitlement Mentality's Incomplete Notion of Justice*

Voluntary sacrifice of one's time or money to give to the poor, the sick, and the elderly is a virtue. Indeed, one could argue that healthy communities depend upon some members giving to other members who are in need. And it is certainly proper for those in need to ask for help from others. However, the notion that people are entitled to or deserve other people's time or money is not the best moral rationale for giving to those who are in need.


*The Entitlement Mentality's Ineffective Compassion*

The word "compassion" means "suffering with," while care implies acting in ways that provide assistance while avoiding harm. Compassionate care is the kind of aid or attention that comes alongside those who suffer and acknowledges their dignity. In contrast to government social service programs, the myriad unsung heroes who come alongside those who suffer and give of themselves voluntarily and often without compensation better express justice, responsibility, and compassion and can provide more holistic and humanizing care by fostering face-to-face interaction and relationships with those in need.


*The Entitlement Mentality's Short-sighted View of Social Obligation*

Society has a moral obligation to help the poor, the sick, and the elderly.[23] However, government-funded programs fail to meet such obligations in the most just or compassionate way, and the rising cost of funding these programs also ignores other moral obligations-namely, those directed to all citizens, including the needy, in future generations.


*The Entitlement Mentality's Distortion of Our Vision of Moral Responsibility*

Government social service programs also shape the way citizens think about and relate to neighbors in need. These programs encourage a vision of their recipients not as holistic persons with dignity, but as bundles of costly needs or, worse, wretched dependents. On the other hand, such programs support a view of the wealthy in impersonal, financially reductionist terms-not as responsible servants, but as revenue sources.


*Conclusion*

The moral nature of governing and the moral implications for society of the nature, size, and scope of government are inescapable. The case for limited government will therefore inevitably need to take these moral considerations into account. A government that understands its main responsibility to be that of administering judgment in terms of justice will play an essential, and essentially limited, role in sustaining a healthy society. A good but limited government will both exercise the authority it is competent to wield-i.e., the power to use legitimate force to defend right-and provide conditions of justice in which local associations can exercise the authority that rightly belongs to them.

The moral case for good but limited government rests on the competency of other institutions to provide for the needs of citizens and to cultivate the virtues necessary to fulfill the moral obligations that sustain a free society. Not only can the fundamental institutions of family and religious congregations, as well as other communities of civil society, provide more personal, humanizing, holistic, and compassionate care, but they can better engender the trust and responsibility required for citizens to fulfill their moral obligations to each other.

Families and churches, as well as such other institutions as schools, businesses, sports teams, community orchestras, professional organizations, neighborhood watch committees, and faith-based and other nonprofit groups, bind their members not to abstract laws, but to other people. They are premised not on individual autonomy, but on the authority of knowledgeable and competent parents, pastors, teachers, coaches, conductors, and other leaders with the power to discipline. They motivate not solely by fear but by trust, and they are united not only by their opposition to unjust interference, but also by substantial positive goals, commitments, and convictions that they share in common.

It is therefore the responsibility of a modern nation-state that desires to bind its "many" into "one" to limit its power and its purse, leaving primary responsibility for moral formation in the hands of local moral communities. Only these associations and institutions can foster true justice and compassion for those in need-a fact that makes them essential for the cultivation of virtuous citizens and the prevention of governmental tyranny.

-Ryan Messmore is William E. Simon Fellow in Religion and a Free Society in the Richard and Helen DeVos Center for Religion and Civil Society at The Heritage Foundation.

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## 24 Hours

Nilgiri said:


> Point is now the far left (and Ben correctly asks why the hell does far left crap become the mainstream left position in less than 5 minutes?) is overtly (even with those people that are not into politics in social media) taking the position that only their think is the correct one and you are literally evil if you leave them in any way that they also define.
> 
> This is exactly what Leia meant when she said "the tighter you grip, the more slips through your fingers".....and with the black community there need not really be a mass shift or anything....just a 10% (or even as low as 5%) swing away from democrats ruins the political strategy for them.


I find the far left becoming mainstream hard to believe. One of Bernie's top supporters, Keith Ellison ran for Democratic chairman and lost to a Clinton loyalist. Right now the Democract's top Trump counter is simply blaming Russia without trying to come up with a viable strategy to counter Trump while keeping their position the same. 

Also doesn't help the media focuses on dumb shit as well, like the Stormy Daniels case. Whether or not he slept with her is relevant, as it does nothing about his public policies. 


Nilgiri said:


> Going after Kanye like this (who now easily solidifies the freethinker position with little effort) for pretty much no reason (Kanye has said he also "loves" Hillary, his wife was a fundraiser for Hillary etc)....after having previously made him into a darling (when he went after Bush as "not liking black people")....is definitely a real stupid, desperate thing to do for the far-left/left (it will only blowback now, and take away sensitive % points of broader support)...but I guess their nature just cannot help it....it is all about absolute control, with strait jackets long term if needed.
> 
> I am no fan of Kanye, his wife or the rest of the hollywood/music industry ppl, BUT the point is he has illustrated just how easily triggered the left becomes when you decide to shift from them even a little bit....and more importantly that it is FUN to trigger them


Kanye's character makes sense, just listen to his song "I am a God" and you'll understand him from there.


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## Nilgiri

Ashes said:


> I find the far left becoming mainstream hard to believe.



https://www.investors.com/politics/...t-democrats-have-shifted-to-the-extreme-left/

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/01/will-the-democrats-nuke-the-party-to-win-the-presidency

Ben Shapiro has done a good analysis over many of his episodes on this phenomenon. It may seem somewhat static if you are in California (or some other largely liberal area)....but in the swingy parts of the country, the far-left induced polarisation is really playing a role now.



Ashes said:


> One of Bernie's top supporters, Keith Ellison ran for Democratic chairman and lost to a Clinton loyalist.



The fact the dems even let him run says a lot compared to the dems just a few decades before (say right before and after the cold war ended).



Ashes said:


> Right now the Democract's top Trump counter is simply blaming Russia without trying to come up with a viable strategy to counter Trump while keeping their position the same.



Yep agree....this static edifice is now springing major leaks (something like 54% of the US public want a special counsel to investigate the FBI high end actors now too), the timing with the midterms couldn't be worse esp if Trump gets something done on North Korea. I personally know some pretty anti-trumpers who are giving him kudos w.r.t the Norks and likely wont turnout against him (like they were fully planning to earlier) if he gets that stuff done.



Ashes said:


> Also doesn't help the media focuses on dumb shit as well, like the Stormy Daniels case. Whether or not he slept with her is relevant, as it does nothing about his public policies.



Yah spot on. But they have become mouthpieces of the dem party pretty much, so its not really surprising. They play to Trump's long term strengths and seem to not realise it. A really critical, solid analysis (and giving fair credit/criticism as appropriate from all perspectives) would do them much better in the long run in "defeating" Trump....but instead they want to play hand-over-hand on the emotional-feelz sword hilt....that's Trump's natural game.

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## Gomig-21

@RabzonKhan , are you following this crazy stuff that came out from that complete clown of an ignoramus Rudy Guliani and what he said on FOX last night and this morning?

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## Nilgiri

Gomig-21 said:


> @RabzonKhan , are you following this crazy stuff that came out from that complete clown of an ignoramus Rudy Guliani and what he said on FOX last night and this morning?



Rudy is pretty much singlehandedly the reason why NYC is liveable now with regards to its crime rate (as much as Deblashit is trying his best to reverse that back)....I would not label him ignoramus....he has already said everything he said was with the permission of both Trump and his legal team.

There is much strategy why he chose to say what he said (seeing how things are now coming to a head finally)...it will be revealed to you when Mueller ends/wraps up this nothing burger Russian collusion nonsense regardless of what the MSM chooses to cling on to and bray in its delusional pravda groupthink....just like what happened on Nov 8th 2016  .

@Desert Fox

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## Gomig-21

Nilgiri said:


> he has already said everything he said was with the permission of both Trump and his legal team.



That's the problem. There is NO WAY he had permission to say that crap and the permission he's talking about is some form of power of attorney which doesn't always sit well with clients, trust me, lol, I've dealt with those sharks on several occasions. 

This guy is an old bufoon, bro. He went off on a silly tangent that basically proved Trump is a liar and lied about the payment to Stormy Daniels and threw the WH public relations into total chaos today! Oh ma gosh. He's washed up and thinks he's some old, crusty mafia boss who's gonna come in and take control. When he said he's going to push the investigation and get it wrapped up, I just about fell outta my chair loool. Who the frig does this bongo think he is? Can you imagine what Mueller must've thought when he heard that joke?  He must've told his handler to send a special pizza with meatballs to Guliani's new office. 



Nilgiri said:


> There is much strategy why he chose to say what he said (seeing how things are now coming to a head finally)...it will be revealed to you when Mueller ends/wraps up this nothing burger Russian collusion nonsense regardless of what the MSM chooses to cling on to and bray in its delusional pravda groupthink....just like what happened on Nov 8th 2016  .



The election is long gone. That's a thing of the past. This administration has a boatload to worry about between possible campaign finance law violations to obstruction of justice to collusion and the list goes on. We'll see if it's a nothing burger but things are pointing at a huge roast beef sub!

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## Gomig-21

And here's yet another travesty. This old mafiosi gumba comes out and calls the FBI agents who raided Micheal Cohen's office or home or whatever, "Nazi paratroopers." The top, federal justice department in the Federal Bureau of Investigation who's responsibility is to control the mega criminals in this country he calls them "Nazi Paratroopers." @Nilgiri , this guy is a plump, buffoon. He thinks he's some god or something. He just flipped the white house upside down in less than 1 hour with his total lack of professionalism and off the cuff arrogance. 

And those guys whom he's calling Nazi Stormtroopers were all FBI agents out of the NY Southern District! They're all his gumbas! What a disaster.

And now to this clown. How many lies can he say in one sentence?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/991843153953964033
Guess what, 2 of those prisoners were captured during HIS administration! Baboon, lol.

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## Nilgiri

Gomig-21 said:


> That's the problem. There is NO WAY he had permission to say that crap and the permission he's talking about is some form of power of attorney which doesn't always sit well with clients, trust me, lol, I've dealt with those sharks on several occasions.



No idea what you are talking about now. Please don't rely on the MSM take for this crap (cherry picking with no context)....at least launder it through Ben first....and Ben basically said....a bit of a whoopsie optically, but no biggie in the end really....given the MSM has proven again and again it has done a LOT worse.

I mean just recently the NBC Cohen wiretapping 100% confirmed, the tapes are coming at any moment!!!!......and fake news fact check and rollback with full egg on face.....and just keep believing us anyway 



Gomig-21 said:


> This guy is an old bufoon, bro. He went off on a silly tangent that basically proved Trump is a liar and lied about the payment to Stormy Daniels and threw the WH public relations into total chaos today! Oh ma gosh. He's washed up and thinks he's some old, crusty mafia boss who's gonna come in and take control. When he said he's going to push the investigation and get it wrapped up, I just about fell outta my chair loool. Who the frig does this bongo think he is? Can you imagine what Mueller must've thought when he heard that joke?  He must've told his handler to send a special pizza with meatballs to Guliani's new office.



Step away from "no path to 270" CNN blah blah if you want a serious talk 

Like @Ashes said indulging in the stormy daniels nothing burger to this level just gonna blowback in the end against "Killary's Bimbo eruption squad = perfectly fine if its a democrat" sort of hypocrites.

God those faces at CNN and MSM were the best friggin part of nov 8th....way more than the celebrations outside their little pravda circlejerk haha. Madcow face, "whitelash" tears...the whole dealio haha.

Now if you have something personal against Rudy, thats fine....he's not for everyone....I mean being all mean to NYC like that and setting it straight and ending the 70s + 80s crime wave (Remember how the bronx was literally a warzone?)....dayum that really sucked. 



Gomig-21 said:


> The election is long gone. That's a thing of the past. This administration has a boatload to worry about between possible campaign finance law violations to obstruction of justice to collusion and the list goes on. We'll see if it's a nothing burger but things are pointing at a huge roast beef sub!



The election may be over....but the MSM/leftard delusion (which led to that election result) is quite permanent and entrenched. Clear warning signs even among the MSM cabal are propping up, but lets see if they can change the downward loser territory Democrats and co are headed down:

http://time.com/5264153/the-fbi-is-in-crisis-and-america-is-paying-the-price/

The FBI Is in Crisis. It's Worse Than You Think

By Eric Lichtblau May 3, 2018

In normal times, the televisions are humming at the FBI’s 56 field offices nationwide, piping in the latest news as agents work their investigations. But these days, some agents say, the TVs are often off to avoid the crush of bad stories about the FBI itself. The bureau, which is used to making headlines for nabbing crooks, has been grabbing the spotlight for unwanted reasons: fired leaders, texts between lovers and, most of all, attacks by President Trump. “I don’t care what channel it’s on,” says Tom O’Connor, a veteran investigator in Washington who leads the FBI Agents Association. “All you hear is negative stuff about the FBI … It gets depressing.”

Many view Trump’s attacks as self-serving: he has called the renowned agency an “embarrassment to our country” and its investigations of his business and political dealings a “witch hunt.” But as much as the bureau’s roughly 14,000 special agents might like to tune out the news, internal and external reports have found lapses throughout the agency, and longtime observers, looking past the partisan haze, see a troubling picture: something really is wrong at the FBI.

The Justice Department’s Inspector General, Michael Horowitz, will soon release a much-anticipated assessment of Democratic and Republican charges that officials at the FBI interfered in the 2016 presidential campaign. That year-long probe, sources familiar with it tell TIME, is expected to come down particularly hard on former FBI director James Comey, who is currently on a high-profile book tour. It will likely find that Comey breached Justice Department protocols in a July 5, 2016, press conference when he criticized Hillary Clinton for using a private email server as Secretary of State even as he cleared her of any crimes, the sources say. The report is expected to also hit Comey for the way he reopened the Clinton email probe less than two weeks before the election, the sources say.

The report closely follows an earlier one in April by Horowitz, which showed that the ousted deputy director of the FBI, Andrew McCabe, had lied to the bureau’s internal investigations branch to cover up a leak he orchestrated about Clinton’s family foundation less than two weeks before the election. (The case has since been referred to the U.S. Attorney’s office in Washington, D.C., for potential prosecution.) Another IG report in March found that FBI retaliation against internal whistle-blowers was continuing despite years of bureau pledges to fix the problem. Last fall, Horowitz found that the FBI wasn’t adequately investigating “high-risk” employees who failed polygraph tests.

There have been other painful, more public failures as well: missed opportunities to prevent mass shootings that go beyond the much-publicized overlooked warnings in the Parkland, Fla., school killings; an anguishing delay in the sexual-molestation probe into Olympic gymnastics doctor Larry Nassar; and evidence of misconduct by agents in the aftermath of standoffs with armed militias in Nevada and Oregon. FBI agents are facing criminal charges ranging from obstruction to leaking classified material. And then there’s potentially the widest-reaching failure of all: the FBI’s miss of the Russian influence operation against the 2016 election, which went largely undetected for more than two years.

In the course of two dozen interviews for this story, agents and others expressed concern that the tumult is threatening the cooperation of informants, local and state police officials, and allies overseas. Even those who lived through past crises say the current one is more damaging. “We’ve seen ups and downs, but I’ve never seen anything like this,” says Robert Anderson, a senior official at the FBI who retired in 2015.

The FBI’s crisis of credibility appears to have seeped into the jury room. The number of convictions in FBI-led investigations has declined in each of the last five years, dropping nearly 11% over that period, according to a TIME analysis of data obtained from the Justice Department by researchers at Syracuse University. “We’ve already seen where the bad guys and witnesses look at those FBI credentials, and it might not carry the same weight anymore,” says O’Connor.

Indeed, public support for the FBI has plunged. A PBS NewsHour survey in April showed a 10-point drop–from 71% to 61%–in the prior two months among Americans who thought the FBI was “just trying to do its job” and an 8-point jump–from 23% to 31%–among those who thought it was “biased against the Trump Administration.”

The FBI, of course, continues to do good work. On April 25, local authorities in Sacramento and the FBI announced the dramatic arrest of the Golden State Killer. That same day it helped bust 39 people in Pennsylvania in a cocaine-trafficking investigation, 14 prison employees in South Carolina in a bribery case and two men in New Jersey in a $5.3 million tax-evasion probe. Assistant FBI Director William F. Sweeney Jr., who runs the New York field office and oversaw the April 9 raid against Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen, says his agents’ response to the turmoil has been to “double down and [say], ‘Hey, we’re gonna keep on moving.'”

Some question whether the FBI has gotten too big and has been asked to do too many things. After 9/11, then FBI director Robert Mueller, who is now the special counsel leading the Russia probe, made massive new investments in counterterrorism and intelligence, shifting resources and investigative focus from white collar crime and bank robberies.

Many of the bureau’s woes developed on Comey’s 3½-year watch. They extend beyond the most visible controversies, like the Clinton email and Russia investigations, to his costly confrontation with Apple over unlocking an iPhone used by one of the terrorists in the San Bernardino, Calif., shooting in 2015, and beyond. Critics say Comey’s penchant for high-profile moral fights has, ironically, undermined the bureau’s reputation. Trump himself has used that line of argument to challenge the FBI.

Democrats have questioned the integrity of the bureau as well, with Clinton and her aides claiming Comey and the FBI helped tip the election to Trump. But the biggest difference between past crises and the current one, according to virtually everyone interviewed for this article, is the President. Trump has continually attacked the integrity of the institution and its leaders, alleging not just incompetence but bad faith in the commission of justice. Ronald Hosko, who retired in 2014 after 30 years at the bureau, compares the moment to a wildfire, saying Trump “is either the spark that creates the flames, or he’s standing there with a can of gas to stoke the flames.”

The bureau’s current director, Christopher Wray, recently said his first priority is to “try to bring a sense of calm and stability back to the bureau.” But the FBI is facing one of the greatest tests of its 110 years. In the coming months, it must fix a litany of internal problems, fend off outside attacks on its trustworthiness and pursue investigations touching on a sitting President, at the same time a growing number of Americans are asking themselves: Can we trust the FBI?

Last May, McCabe, then the FBI’s deputy director, sat down at the table in his seventh-floor office for a meeting with two agents from the inspections division. The agents had some questions about the Clinton Foundation leak just before the election. It was a quick meeting. McCabe, an FBI veteran who rose through the ranks over a 21-year career, told them he had “no idea” where the leak came from. The agents left after just five minutes or so, according to the Inspector General’s April 13 report.

McCabe had offered that same basic assurance months earlier to his boss, then director Comey, investigators said, and had angrily lit into FBI officials under him, suggesting the Clinton leak had come from their offices and telling one senior agent in Washington to “get his house in order.” But as it turned out, McCabe knew exactly where the leak had come from. He personally authorized it, Horowitz’s investigators found, to counter charges that he favored Clinton. (His wife received $467,500 from the PAC of a Clinton ally, then Virginia governor Terry McAuliffe, in a failed 2015 bid for state office.)

The McCabe findings have shaken the FBI. The bureau has massive power, and as a result, it has strict rules. Lying to investigators is considered a dire breach in an organization built on trust. The referral to the U.S. Attorney’s office, which emerged a week after the report was released, could result in charges against McCabe of making a false sworn statement. He has challenged the findings, disputing even the most basic elements, like how many people were in the room. The IG said it did not find many of his objections credible, with some elements contradicted by notes taken contemporaneously by an agent. McCabe previously called his firing part of a “war on the FBI” and the Russia investigation. But viewed against the backdrop of other Horowitz reports, McCabe’s alleged rule-breaking looks like part of a much larger problem.

In September, Horowitz found that bureau investigators had allowed employees with dubious polygraph results to keep their top-secret clearances for months or even years, posing “potential risks to U.S. national security.” In one instance, an FBI IT specialist with top-secret security clearance failed four polygraph tests and admitted to having created a fictitious Facebook account to communicate with a foreign national, but received no disciplinary action for that. In late 2016, Horowitz found that the FBI was getting information it shouldn’t have had access to when it used controversial parts of the Patriot Act to obtain business records in terrorism and counterintelligence cases.

Just as troubling are recent FBI missteps not yet under the IG’s microscope. At 2:31 p.m. on Jan. 5, the FBI’s round-the-clock tip center in West Virginia received a chilling phone call. The caller gave her name and said she was close to the family of an 18-year-old in Parkland, Fla., named Nikolas Cruz. Over 13 minutes, she said Cruz had posted photos of rifles he owned and animals he mutilated and that he wanted “to kill people.” She listed his Instagram accounts and suggested the FBI check for itself, saying she was worried about the thought of his “getting into a school and just shooting the place up,” according to a transcript of the call.

The FBI specialist checked Cruz’s name against a database and found that another tipster had reported 3½ months earlier that a “Nikolas Cruz” posted a comment on his YouTube channel saying, “I’m going to be a professional school shooter.” But neither tip was passed on to the FBI field agents in Miami or local officials in Parkland. After Cruz allegedly killed 17 people with an AR-15 rifle at his old school just six weeks later, the bureau admitted that it had dropped the ball and ordered a full review. “You look at this and say, ‘You’ve got to be kidding me,'” says Anderson, the former FBI official.

The Parkland shooting was only the latest in a string of devastating misses. After Omar Mateen shot and killed 49 people at the nightclub Pulse in Orlando in June 2016, the FBI said it had investigated him twice before on terrorism suspicions, but shut the inquiries for lack of evidence. The year before, after Dylann Roof shot to death nine African-American parishioners at a South Carolina church, the FBI acknowledged that lapses in its gun background-check system allowed him to illegally buy the .45-caliber handgun he used in the massacre. And in 2011, the FBI received a tip from Russian intelligence that one of the Boston Marathon bombers had become radicalized and was planning an overseas trip to join radical Islamic groups. The FBI in Boston investigated him but found no “nexus” to terrorism.

The Orlando shooting provoked more second-guessing in late March, when the shooter’s widow, Noor Salman, was acquitted on charges of aiding and abetting him and obstructing justice. The jury foreman pointed to inconsistencies in the FBI’s accounts of the disputed admissions that agents said Salman had made, according to the Orlando Sentinel. The judge also scolded the government after an FBI agent contradicted the government’s earlier claims that Salman and Mateen had cased the club.

The concerns about FBI testimony in a major terrorist prosecution underscore a larger question: Are people less likely to believe what the bureau says these days? In January, a federal judge threw out all the criminal charges against renegade Nevada cattleman Cliven Bundy, his two sons and a supporter who had been in an armed standoff over unpaid grazing fees. Judge Gloria Navarro accused the government of “outrageous” and “flagrant” misconduct, citing failures by both prosecutors and the FBI to produce at least 1,000 pages of required documents. The judge said the FBI misplaced–or “perhaps hid”–a thumb drive revealing the existence of snipers and a surveillance camera at the site of the standoff.

A related case in Oregon, growing out of the 2016 takeover of a wildlife refuge by Bundy’s sons and their followers, has not gone well for the FBI either. An agent at the scene, W. Joseph Astarita, is now charged with five criminal counts after prosecutors say he falsely denied shooting twice at an occupation leader who was fatally shot by police, who said he appeared to be reaching for his handgun during a roadside encounter. The Bundy sons and five supporters who helped in the takeover were found not guilty of conspiracy and weapons charges, in another jarring setback for the government.

Some legal experts and defense advocates see the string of recent not guilty verdicts as a sign that jurors and judges are less inclined to take what the FBI says in court at face value. Data examined by TIME support that conclusion. The number of convictions in FBI-led investigations dropped last year for the fifth consecutive year–from 11,461 in 2012 to 10,232, according to Syracuse University data, which was obtained under Freedom of Information Act requests.

Moreover, TIME’s analysis shows a surprisingly low rate of success for the thousands of cases the FBI investigates and sends to the Justice Department for possible prosecution. Over that same time period, the Justice Department has ultimately won convictions in fewer than half the cases the FBI referred for prosecution, with a conviction rate of 47% last year, the data showed. That fell well below the average of 72% for all agencies. Prosecutors themselves have rejected many of the FBI’s referrals before they ever got to court. The bureau’s low success rate in these cases has remained largely unchanged in recent years.

Federal prosecutors still win the bulk of the thousands of cases they choose to bring based on FBI investigations. Justice Department spokesman Ian Prior says a variety of factors could play into the drop in prosecutions and convictions over the last five years, including “de-emphasizing” some crimes under Obama-era policies and cutbacks in prosecutors in recent years. Prior says that “judging the performance of the FBI based on a minuscule sample of cherry-picked cases” ignores its thousands of annual convictions.

Gina Nichols, a nurse in Minnesota, says she never had strong impressions one way or the other about the FBI until her daughter Maggie Nichols, who was a member of the national gymnastics team, reported three years ago that team physician Larry Nassar had molested her. Gina waited anxiously for the FBI to contact her and interview Maggie. But no one did so for nearly a year as the case languished among different FBI field offices in Indianapolis, Detroit and Los Angeles. Nassar is believed to have molested dozens of additional victims over the course of that year. “It makes you sick,” Gina tells TIME. “I have a child who was sexually abused for 2½ years by an Olympic doctor, and the FBI did nothing.”

The FBI has opened an internal inquiry to determine why the Nassar investigations appear to have dragged on for so long. John Manly, a Southern California lawyer representing many of the women, says he is angry that no one from the FBI has contacted the victims to explain the delay. “Knowing that the best law-enforcement agency in the world knew exactly what he was up to and did nothing–I can’t explain that to them,” Manly says. “You’ve got people who were really hurt here, so fix it,” he says.

Perhaps the easiest problems to address are the internal lapses. Experts say putting assets and management attention back to work on cyber, counterintelligence and traditional crime after Mueller shifted them to counterterrorism would help. “There’s an overextension of the mission,” says Brian Levin, a professor of criminal justice at California State University, San Bernardino, who has worked with the FBI. Most of Horowitz’s reports include measures the FBI can take to address their problems, including stricter rules for investigating polygraph test failures and training to protect whistle-blowers.

A failure of imagination is harder to fix. Mueller’s Russia probe has found that Moscow’s operation against the 2016 election first got under way in 2014, but the FBI failed to grasp the scope and danger of what was unfolding. The bureau missed the significance of the damaging 2015 hack of the DNC database. And when the Russian operation began to heat up in the summer of 2016, the FBI was always a step behind the Russians, struggling to understand intelligence reports they were getting about possible connections between Moscow and Trump aides. The bureau also sat on the disputed “dossier” prepared by former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele.

A report released on April 27 by Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee found that the FBI was slow to confront the election meddling, especially in its failure to notify U.S. victims of Russian hacking quickly enough. The committee also charged that the bureau’s decision to surveil former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page was influenced by politics. At the same time, the GOP has pointed to text messages between FBI special agent Peter Strzok and FBI lawyer Lisa Page, which were critical of Trump–as well as many Democrats–to argue the bureau is fundamentally biased.

FBI Director Wray says the bureau has started “specific activities” to prevent election meddling by Moscow, but outsiders worry that the U.S. remains vulnerable this fall and beyond.

The most important thing the FBI can do to fix itself? Follow its own rules. In his handling of the Clinton email probe ahead of the 2016 election, Comey acted without telling the Justice Department what he planned to do. Comey is expected to come under fire in the upcoming IG report for breaking with Justice Department rules and norms by assuming authority usually held by prosecutors and speaking in public about a case that did not produce criminal charges, sources with knowledge of the report tell TIME. He will likely also be criticized for weighing in so close to the election in a way that could impact the outcome, sources familiar with the investigation say.

On his book tour, Comey has defended his decisions as the best way out of a bad situation. Facing what he called “a series of no-win decisions,” Comey says he did what he thought was necessary and transparent to protect the integrity of both the FBI and the legal process in such a high-profile case.

As he faces the crises at the FBI, Wray has told his senior aides to “keep calm and tackle hard.” Asked if recent misconduct cases concern Wray, FBI spokeswoman Jacqueline Maguire said the bureau’s 36,000 employees “are held to the highest standards of conduct–but as in any large organization, there may be occasions when an employee exercises poor judgment or engages in misconduct.” While she declined to discuss specific cases, Maguire said claims of misconduct are “taken seriously [and] investigated thoroughly,” leading to discipline when needed.

At FBI headquarters, agents and supervisors say they are keeping their heads down and focusing on their investigations. But the building is literally crumbling around them–Comey kept in his office a slab of concrete that had fallen off the side. Designs for a new complex were scrapped in February. Visible across Pennsylvania Avenue from the main entrance, with J. Edgar Hoover’s tarnished name above it, is the gleaming, gold-plated sign on the newly renovated Trump International Hotel.

Trump’s attacks on the FBI have been filled with inaccuracies and innuendo, wrongly claiming on Twitter, for instance, that McCabe was in charge of the Clinton email investigation. Trump makes a point of praising rank-and-file agents, but his punches have landed inside the FBI and out. Some worry the damage may take years to repair. “I fear Trump’s relentless attacks on the institution are having an effect on the public’s confidence in the FBI,” says Matthew S. Axelrod, a senior Justice Department official in the Obama Administration.

Mueller may play an outsize role in how his old agency gets through the current crisis. If the special counsel finds that Russia did collude with members of the Trump campaign–the central question in his investigation–and any perpetrators are charged and found guilty in court, it would rebut Trump’s charges of a “witch hunt.” If Mueller finds no evidence of collusion, or declines to make it public, it would open the door for Trump and his campaign to paint the FBI as a band of partisan hacks with a reputation, as he has tweeted, “in tatters.”

There may be no immediate way to fix a place with as many missions and masters as the FBI. One official, asked what it would take for the FBI to move past all the controversy, paused and said simply, “Time.” Many hope that the extraordinary confluence of events that drew the FBI into the 2016 election will prove to be, as Comey called it, “a 500-year flood” that won’t repeat itself anytime soon.

Others are doubtful. Jeffrey Danik, a retired FBI agent in Florida who now works with whistle-blowers at the bureau, blames the state of affairs on “a severe lack of leadership” and transparency at headquarters in owning up to recent mistakes. Those damaging failures, he says, “have just about pushed our incredible organization over the brink.” For now, everyone inside and out who cares about the reliability of law enforcement in America is left hoping that the bureau has at least started on the road back.

This appears in the May 14, 2018 issue of TIME.

Comment from a good friend of mine (about the significance of this article), TIFWIW he has not put a foot wrong on what has happened thus far since Trump announced his run @Desert Fox :



> And we have just hit the turning point. The key facts are not in the article. The key facts are the existence of the article and where the article was published: Time.
> 
> Were a conservative to have written this article, there would be a lot more about the incompetence of the FBI, and it probably would have gone back further than Obama. I watch documentaries when I get sick, and American Experience has two good documentaries on Ruby Ridge and the parts of Waco that led to the Oklahoma City bombing. Both are fair, balanced, have input from both sides, and portray not malevolence, but massive amounts of overconfidence, misunderstanding, poor to no tactical awareness and bull-headed stupidity. Frontline has an even more damning account of the FBI's handling of Waco, and it's very clear their negotiators and tactical operators were not only not coordinated, they were actively working to cross purposes. The final assault plan was sold to Janet Reno on a lie - the abuse of children that didn't happen. We could easily add the mishandling of dozens of cases between 1991 and 2017 to said list, along with a distinct lack of oversight and resistance toward same. Whitey Bulger springs to mind.
> 
> But that will come.
> 
> It really doesn't matter how badly mishandled and deeply incompetent the FBI is. What matters is that they're being thrown under the bus. Yes, the article has the obligatory jabs at Trump, but we still have both Comey and McCabe being taken down in a prominent, left-leaning news magazine. We have it not only taking the FBI to task for screwing up the 2016 election, but it is actively attacking previous Democrat memes about Muslims, terrorism, and the competence of the Obama Administration to vet. Obama is not mentioned by name, but the FBI's failure to clearly identify Islamic terror - Boston, San Bernadino, Orlando - is prominent. Most importantly, Time is not trying to defend the FBI, and certainly not the integrity of the FBI.
> 
> They are showing the loss of confidence in the FBI by the American public as the reasonable response to this mess. That is the kill shot.
> 
> Unless there is a massive firestorm in response, we can reasonably conclude Mueller et al. will also go under the bus very shortly, because the entire Insurance Policy rests on one thing - the American public believing the investigation has integrity. That requires believing Mueller has integrity. Which requires believing the FBI has integrity.
> 
> Time just shot that belief dead.





Gomig-21 said:


> And here's yet another travesty. This old mafiosi gumba comes out and calls the FBI agents who raided Micheal Cohen's office or home or whatever, "Nazi paratroopers." The top, federal justice department in the Federal Bureau of Investigation who's responsibility is to control the mega criminals in this country he calls them "Nazi Paratroopers." @Nilgiri , this guy is a plump, buffoon. He thinks he's some god or something. He just flipped the white house upside down in less than 1 hour with his total lack of professionalism and off the cuff arrogance.
> 
> And those guys whom he's calling Nazi Stormtroopers were all FBI agents out of the NY Southern District! They're all his gumbas! What a disaster.



Good timing LOL:

Federal judge accuses Mueller's team of 'lying,' trying to target Trump: 'C'mon man!'


A federal judge on Friday harshly rebuked Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team during a hearing for ex-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort – suggesting they lied about the scope of the investigation, are seeking “unfettered power” and are more interested in bringing down the president.

"You don't really care about Mr. Manafort,” U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis III told Mueller’s team. “You really care about what information Mr. Manafort can give you to lead you to Mr. Trump and an impeachment, or whatever."

Further, Ellis demanded to see the unredacted “scope memo,” a document outlining the scope of the special counsel’s Russia probe that congressional Republicans have also sought.
A round of Robert Mueller's Russia Investigation, who's been indicted, how are the tied to President Trump, and who's gotten plea deals? Video
Michael Cohen, Paul Manafort: Mueller's probe key moves

The hearing, where Manafort’s team fought to dismiss an 18-count indictment on tax and bank fraud-related charges, took a confrontational turn as it was revealed that at least some of the information in the investigation derived from an earlier Justice Department probe – in the U.S. attorney’s office for the Eastern District of Virginia.

Manafort’s attorneys argue the special counsel does not have the power to indict him on the charges they have brought – and seemed to find a sympathetic ear with Ellis.

The Reagan-appointed judge asked Mueller’s team where they got the authority to indict Manafort on alleged crimes dating as far back as 2005.
Judge TS Ellis

Judge T.S. Ellis III rebuked Robert Mueller's team.

The special counsel argues that Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein granted them broad authority in his May 2, 2017 letter appointing Mueller to this investigation. But after the revelation that the team is using information from the earlier DOJ probe, Ellis said that information did not “arise” out of the special counsel probe – and therefore may not be within the scope of that investigation.

“We don’t want anyone with unfettered power,” he said.

Mueller’s team says its authorities are laid out in documents including the August 2017 scope memo – and that some powers are actually secret because they involve ongoing investigations and national security matters that cannot be publicly disclosed. 

Ellis seemed amused and not persuaded.

He summed up the argument of the Special Counsel’s Office as, "We said this was what [the] investigation was about, but we are not bound by it and we were lying."

He referenced the common exclamation from NFL announcers, saying: "C'mon man!" 
Paul Manafort leaves Federal District Court in Washington, Monday, Oct. 30, 2017. Manafort, President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman, and Manafort's business associate Rick Gates have pleaded not guilty to felony charges of conspiracy against the United States and other counts. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)

Attorneys for former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort argue that the special counsel does not have the power to indict their client on the charges they brought. (AP)

The judge also gave the government two weeks to hand over the unredacted “scope memo” or provide an explanation why not -- after prosecutors were reluctant to do so, claiming it has material that doesn’t pertain to Manafort.

“I’ll be the judge of that,” Ellis said.

House Republicans have also sought the full document, though the Justice Department previously released a redacted version, which includes information related to Manafort but not much else.

The charges in federal court in Virginia were on top of another round of charges in October. Manafort has pleaded not guilty to both rounds. The charges filed earlier this year include conspiring against the United States, conspiring to launder money, failing to register as an agent of a foreign principal and providing false statements.

Earlier this year, Ellis suggested that Manafort could face life in prison, and “poses a substantial flight risk” because of his “financial means and international connections to flee and remain at large.”

Fox News’ Brooke Singman and Judson Berger contributed to this report.



Gomig-21 said:


> Guess what, 2 of those prisoners were captured during HIS administration! Baboon, lol.



Who cares honestly....Obummer never got anything done regarding hostages held (or anything really) by the Norks....zilch...nada. That's what Trump is basically saying, if you want to get hung up on the details like MSM cherrypicking wants...you are welcome to.

Meanwhile Kanye pretty much singlehandedly bumped up support among African American males for Trump from 11% (already higher than Romney) to 22% in just one week  (and remember 5% sensitivity is already enough in many c. districts). 

Millenial polls show their support to the dems declined from like 56% to 45% (largely because of the dems pushing hard left, leaving distaste in the centrish people)....huge swings are underway right now in sensitive voting blocs....and the MSM will simply tell you to keep believing them after that all rudely transpires in the actual elections yet again lol....and then throw crying faces your way, I suppose their version of screaming at the sky haha.

But hey if you think people really super care about Trump saying "3 hostages" instead of just "hostages" more broadly when it comes to the Norks....after the dems/MSM invested THAT much blood and treasure pushing optics of a nuclear war with the Norks (remember not long ago????....omg Trump is gonna start a nuuuuuuclear waaaaaaaar!!!!)....and now there is strong chance of exact opposite (denuclearisation + even Nobel peace prize suggested by the South korean PM for trump lol). 

Really your lot setting up the doom and gloom scenario w.r.t Trump to the level that you did (economy, war, security, waissisississm, X-phobia blah etc) then bunkering into the "russian collusion" as last resort when none of the other stuff caught on (in enough minds or ground reality)........, and what is transpiring instead on the ground (i.e that doom and gloom nowhere near happening, but a lot of good stuff instead) is the biggest fact check for average US voters in the end. Like my buddy said (and remember what Time Warner is):

_Unless there is a massive firestorm in response, we can reasonably conclude Mueller et al. will also go under the bus very shortly, because the entire Insurance Policy rests on one thing - the American public believing the investigation has integrity. That requires believing Mueller has integrity. Which requires believing the FBI has integrity.

Time just shot that belief dead._

Truly as Ben said, the dems are going far left (including all the conspiracy nutjob theory territory that come with that) instead of more centre....and they get to lose in the end because of it . Combine with polling now saying (54% and increasing) people want to see a special consul for the FBI top elite pertaining to the last cpl years 



Gomig-21 said:


> crusty mafia boss



BTW buddy I did enjoy reading your take on it a lot. Please continue haha....

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## Nilgiri

@Desert Fox @Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL @Ashes 

https://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/is-robert-mueller-destroying-the-democratic-party/

Is Robert Mueller Destroying the Democratic Party?
By Roger L Simon May 6, 2018 


It would probably give Robert Mueller a nervous breakdown, not to mention James Comey, Andrew McCabe and the rest of the FBI cabal, past and present, but at this point the special counsel seems to be actually causing the reelection of Donald Trump. Most of the country, other than the greed heads in the media and extreme Democratic Party operatives, no longer gives a hoot in Hades about the "Russia Probe." They're frustrated and sick of it.

There's a dawning national consensus of "enough already" reflected by Judge Ellis when he demanded to know exactly what Paul Manafort's possible money laundering schemes of years ago had to do with Trump colluding with Russia in the 2016 election. The same might be said of Stormy Daniels, whose Russia connection is even more remote.

But let's skip past the subplots of the moment to the greatest of all unintended consequences of this endless investigation -- the decline and fall of the Democratic Party.

White House Says Trump 'Eventually Learned' of Cohen Reimbursement for Stormy Payoff

Yes, you read that correctly. Like a crackhead addicted to the next puff, Democrats and their media allies have spent most of the last sixteen months fixated on whether Trump somehow, some way, colluded with Putin. Meanwhile, a zillion issues slipped by, some important, others less so, but the Democrats barely weighed in on anything, other than to whine about Trump.

What a dumb mistake. And it was compounded by the assumption that the public agreed with them, which was true for a while, to some extent, but has now worn surpassingly thin. It didn't help that the tedious late-night talk show hosts and SNL comics fixated on Trump as well, creating a perfect (but utterly useless) storm.

Mueller and the FBI were the ringmasters in all this along with their media friends whom we might dub the Leak Squad (not to be confused with the Geek Squad at your local Best Buy). This "righteous circle," if we can call it that, continually convinced themselves of the goodness of their calling, when in reality it wasn't a calling at all, but a complete of waste of time and a distraction from discovering what exactly their party stood for.

Finally, the Democrats are waking up, but I strongly suspect it is too late. They are clearly out of practice at making policy or coming up with ideas. That was evident from an article in The Hill over the weekend -- "Dems face pressure to focus on economy, not Trump."

Senate Democratic Leader Charles Schumer (N.Y.) and House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi(Calif.) have unveiled a variety of ambitious proposals, such as raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour and creating a national system of paid family and sick leave. 

Ambitious proposals? They sound more like shopworn boilerplate from a Democratic Party platform circa 1992.

Maybe they are better off banging their shoes about Trump. After all, the way the economy's going, $15 an hour may be in the rear-view mirror all by itself before November and the hoary "paid family leave" proposal made irrelevant in an increasingly competitive job market.

So Mueller may be, in the end, the Democrats' best bet. But he is also their bête noir. He is the man of supposed great moral rectitude who promised to rid them of the obvious injustice of the last election. Unfortunately, Mueller turned out to be an extreme moral narcissist who, consciously or not, led the Democratic Party down a primrose path of impeachment that could never happen and would inflate (slowly, but still...) Trump's poll numbers while assuring him a second term and giving plenty of cannon fodder to Republican congressional candidates once embarrassed by the president. Everything is ironic. Nothing, as Lawrence reminded us, is written.

Devin Nunes Says He's Pressing to Have AG Jeff Sessions Held in Contempt of Congress

Novelist and screenwriter Roger L. Simon is the co-founder and CEO Emeritus of PJ Media. You can find a recent interview with him on BookTV here.

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## 24 Hours

Nilgiri said:


> @Desert Fox @Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL @Ashes
> 
> https://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/is-robert-mueller-destroying-the-democratic-party/
> 
> Is Robert Mueller Destroying the Democratic Party?
> By Roger L Simon May 6, 2018
> 
> 
> It would probably give Robert Mueller a nervous breakdown, not to mention James Comey, Andrew McCabe and the rest of the FBI cabal, past and present, but at this point the special counsel seems to be actually causing the reelection of Donald Trump. Most of the country, other than the greed heads in the media and extreme Democratic Party operatives, no longer gives a hoot in Hades about the "Russia Probe." They're frustrated and sick of it.
> 
> There's a dawning national consensus of "enough already" reflected by Judge Ellis when he demanded to know exactly what Paul Manafort's possible money laundering schemes of years ago had to do with Trump colluding with Russia in the 2016 election. The same might be said of Stormy Daniels, whose Russia connection is even more remote.
> 
> But let's skip past the subplots of the moment to the greatest of all unintended consequences of this endless investigation -- the decline and fall of the Democratic Party.
> 
> White House Says Trump 'Eventually Learned' of Cohen Reimbursement for Stormy Payoff
> 
> Yes, you read that correctly. Like a crackhead addicted to the next puff, Democrats and their media allies have spent most of the last sixteen months fixated on whether Trump somehow, some way, colluded with Putin. Meanwhile, a zillion issues slipped by, some important, others less so, but the Democrats barely weighed in on anything, other than to whine about Trump.
> 
> What a dumb mistake. And it was compounded by the assumption that the public agreed with them, which was true for a while, to some extent, but has now worn surpassingly thin. It didn't help that the tedious late-night talk show hosts and SNL comics fixated on Trump as well, creating a perfect (but utterly useless) storm.
> 
> Mueller and the FBI were the ringmasters in all this along with their media friends whom we might dub the Leak Squad (not to be confused with the Geek Squad at your local Best Buy). This "righteous circle," if we can call it that, continually convinced themselves of the goodness of their calling, when in reality it wasn't a calling at all, but a complete of waste of time and a distraction from discovering what exactly their party stood for.
> 
> Finally, the Democrats are waking up, but I strongly suspect it is too late. They are clearly out of practice at making policy or coming up with ideas. That was evident from an article in The Hill over the weekend -- "Dems face pressure to focus on economy, not Trump."
> 
> Senate Democratic Leader Charles Schumer (N.Y.) and House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi(Calif.) have unveiled a variety of ambitious proposals, such as raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour and creating a national system of paid family and sick leave.
> 
> Ambitious proposals? They sound more like shopworn boilerplate from a Democratic Party platform circa 1992.
> 
> Maybe they are better off banging their shoes about Trump. After all, the way the economy's going, $15 an hour may be in the rear-view mirror all by itself before November and the hoary "paid family leave" proposal made irrelevant in an increasingly competitive job market.
> 
> So Mueller may be, in the end, the Democrats' best bet. But he is also their bête noir. He is the man of supposed great moral rectitude who promised to rid them of the obvious injustice of the last election. Unfortunately, Mueller turned out to be an extreme moral narcissist who, consciously or not, led the Democratic Party down a primrose path of impeachment that could never happen and would inflate (slowly, but still...) Trump's poll numbers while assuring him a second term and giving plenty of cannon fodder to Republican congressional candidates once embarrassed by the president. Everything is ironic. Nothing, as Lawrence reminded us, is written.
> 
> Devin Nunes Says He's Pressing to Have AG Jeff Sessions Held in Contempt of Congress
> 
> Novelist and screenwriter Roger L. Simon is the co-founder and CEO Emeritus of PJ Media. You can find a recent interview with him on BookTV here.



I think it's too early to state whether the Democrats are really destroyed yet. Right now, there's no clear candidate to go against Trump. That being said, if the Korean peace talks keep going smoothly and with the economy in decent shape, Trump's future looks fine. Now, if he can capture Baghdadi, it would be another win, both both for the military and politics.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Ashes said:


> I think it's too early to state whether the Democrats are really destroyed yet. Right now, there's no clear candidate to go against Trump. That being said, if the Korean peace talks keep going smoothly and with the economy in decent shape, Trump's future looks fine. Now, if he can capture Baghdadi, it would be another win, both both for the military and politics.



I think you are correct. If the Korea thing goes through Trump will have a field day roasting the Democrats as a bunch of Liberal sore losers concentrating on chasing after a peep show of Stormy Daniels, Putin stuff, and handing out free money and immigration visas instead of focusing on real issues.

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## Nilgiri

Hamartia Antidote said:


> I think you are correct. If the Korea thing goes through Trump will have a field day roasting the Democrats as a bunch of Liberal sore losers concentrating on chasing after a peep show of Stormy Daniels, Putin stuff, and handing out free money and immigration visas instead of focusing on real issues.



About half the staunch anti-trump ppl here in Canada that I know are willing to give Trump another look if he can pull through on North Korea. One of my buds even told me he hates Trump but no other President could really do that kind of stuff and actually bring pressure to bear unconventionally and get results in the end....and that if he succeeds, yes he should get the Peace Prize, heck Obama got one for simply being black.



Ashes said:


> I think it's too early to state whether the Democrats are really destroyed yet. Right now, there's no clear candidate to go against Trump. That being said, if the Korean peace talks keep going smoothly and with the economy in decent shape, Trump's future looks fine. Now, if he can capture Baghdadi, it would be another win, both both for the military and politics.



Dems missed a real trick in going all in with the remove Trump stuff as their only real talking point. Its catching up with them now, and they seem to be retreating further into that shell. They have pushed away a lot of centrish ppl who have no real love for Trump (or even despise him etc) BUT want actual policy and results on the ground (which needs some level of bipartisanship etc on the hill)....because now the optics is all just stormy and Russian collusion....former is stuff people already knew before the elections (Trump isnt morally or talkingwise 100% sound/moral.... kewl....and?)...and the latter is already what last year was supposed to produce something on if the dems were all right (and clean of things like Uranium one and hillary server bleach etc themselves).

If the dems were smart they would have rode this thing through as more centrists, like they did with Reagan for 8 years (and Reagan friggin threw them a real big bone politically for them in return in the form of the cali amnesty, turning that state full blue from red as a result in no time at all). But nope they have turned into the Trotsky brigade instead....the "deep state" knows best etc etc (when that was exactly what they attacked W. Bush on earlier).


----------



## 24 Hours

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/993926510003277825
Ok so the Iran Deal is out and Paris Climate Agreement is out. Well at least Korean Peace Talks are going nicely.



Nilgiri said:


> If the dems were smart they would have rode this thing through as more centrists, like they did with Reagan for 8 years (and Reagan friggin threw them a real big bone politically for them in return in the form of the cali amnesty, turning that state full blue from red as a result in no time at all). But nope they have turned into the Trotsky brigade instead....the "deep state" knows best etc etc (when that was exactly what they attacked W. Bush on earlier).


Eh, I think Dems are already sticking to the center under Trump. Though, depending on the environment of 2020, we can expect the final democratic nomination to be between both a centrist and a more left leaning candidate.


----------



## Nilgiri

Ashes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/993926510003277825
> Ok so the Iran Deal is out and Paris Climate Agreement is out. Well at least Korean Peace Talks are going nicely.
> 
> 
> Eh, I think Dems are already sticking to the center under Trump. Though, depending on the environment of 2020, we can expect the final democratic nomination to be between both a centrist and a more left leaning candidate.



LOL:

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## Nilgiri

The Trump Land Mine

Explosives require careful handling. Sometimes they blow up in your face.

By VICTOR DAVIS HANSON
May 8, 2018 7:55 AM
nationalreview.com

After the 2016 election, the so-called deep state was confident that it had the power easily to either stop, remove, or delegitimize the outlier Donald Trump and his presidency.

Give it credit, the Washington apparat quite imaginatively pulled out all the stops: implanting Obama holdover appointees all over the Trump executive branch; filing lawsuits and judge shopping; organizing the Resistance; pursuing impeachment writs; warping the FISA courts; weaponizing the DOJ and FBI; attempting to disrupt the Electoral College; angling for enactment of the 25th Amendment or the emoluments clause; and unleashing Hollywood celebrities, Silicon Valley, and many in Wall Street to suffocate the Trump presidency in its infancy.

But now the administrative state’s multifaceted efforts are starting to unwind, and perhaps even boomerang, on the perpetrators. If a federal judge should end up throwing out most of the indictments of Paul Manafort on the rationale that they have nothing much to do with the original mandate of the special counsel’s office, or if Michael Flynn’s confession to giving false statements is withdrawn successfully because the FBI politicized its investigation and FISA courts were misled in approving the surveillance of Flynn, then the Mueller investigation will implode.

Indeed, the Mueller investigation would likely lose so much public support that the Department of Justice could probably dismiss it with impunity. So, in an ironic sense, Mueller’s overreach might well end once and for all the absurdities of the special counsel/prosecutor law that for nearly half a century has plagued the nation.

Until recently, deep-state apparatchiks such as John Brennan, James Clapper, James Comey, and Andrew McCabe seemed immune from accountability after lying either to Congress or to federal authorities. In a perverse sort of way, the more Robert Mueller plays the role of the obsessed but impotent Inspector Javert, the more he demonstrates that there is no Russian-Trump collusion. Meanwhile, he is establishing precedents that those whom he exempts from his own zeal will inevitably have to account for their own lawbreaking. One cannot justifiably hound Michael Flynn for supposedly misleading FBI agents, when agency investigators were told by Huma Abedin and Cheryl Mills that they had known nothing about Hillary Clinton’s private server during her tenure as secretary of state — despite evidence that they themselves had communicated over it (as had the former president of the United States).

In his increasing desperation, Mueller may manage to finish off the declining reputation of FBI’s Washington office to the degree that there is not much left of it after the work of James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Lisa Page, and Peter Strzok. And he may only fuel more criminal complaints against deep-state bureaucrats who worked at the FBI and the DOJ.

In truth, the multiplex world of the establishment is crumbling in a variety of arenas, from entertainment to the workplace. Certainly, the NFL is both bleeding viewers and now seen as an ancillary of the progressive movement. The sports channel ESPN is losing its audience that is tired of being lectured about its supposed ethical shortcomings instead of being enlightened about three-point shots and no-hitters. The century-old White House Correspondents’ Dinner is going the way of the 90-year-old Oscars: It’s an increasingly incestuous night of progressive virtue-signaling, crudity, and mediocrity that permanently turned off millions of former viewers. Americans can forgive a lot of shortcomings in their entertainers; boredom is not one of them.

Between the Me Too movement and the Russian-collusion hysteria, not much remains of the reputations of Hollywood and the media. When, fairly or not, Tom Brokaw is lumped into the ranks of Mark Halpern, Dustin Hoffman, Garrison Keillor, Larry King, Matt Lauer, Ryan Lizza, Charlie Rose, Tavis Smiley, Kevin Spacey, Harvey Weinstein, and a host of others, there is really not much left of the old power brokers. Once upon a time, Americans assumed that a Tom Brokaw, Matt Lauer, Dan Rather, or Charlie Rose were their go-tos for ethical and sober journalism. Again, justly or not, that norm no longer holds. NBC and CNN, which have long routinely parodied Fox News, are far less likely than Fox to permit ideological and political diversity on the air.

Silicon Valley likewise has lost its luster. Once upon a time, America loved a hip Steve Jobs, decked out in black, fiddling with a new Apple gadget on stage in front of an entranced televised audience of millions. Jobs appeared as a brilliant and typically American entrepreneur, not a partisan talking down to hoi polloi.

Things have radically changed since then. The reputation of Big Tech is one of hyper-partisan politics, data miners, snoops, Bowdlerizers and censors, monopolists, progressive multibillionaires, and adolescents in arrested development who exempt themselves from the consequences of what their ideologies inflict on others.

In Wizard of Oz fashion, it’s as if the public is no longer frightened of the omnipotent imperial faces on their screens — once it drew apart the high-tech curtains and exposed tiny little nerds with nasal voices furiously working levers and gears to project deceptive all-powerful images. Even a four-trillion-dollar industry can take only so many scandals like those at Theranos, Facebook data mining, deliberately slowed-down iPhones, fatally texting drivers, and Mark Zuckerbergs.

Donald Trump proved to be a catalyst for much of the implosion of the deep state. Land mines require careful handling. Only arrogant naïfs think that they can rush in, grab them, and carelessly and safely toss them away — clueless that they themselves are exposed as reckless moments before they blow themselves up.

If the deep state really wanted to dismantle and disarm Donald Trump, it would have been wise first to carefully learn how he was constructed and wired — and thus why he was especially dangerous to them. Then to disarm him, elites would have had to offer superior agendas to his supporters, while engaging in reasoned debates and alternative visions — working with him when they found common and shared solutions, playing the loyal opposition when there did not.

Instead, the government, the political apparat, the media, tech, and entertainment conglomerates sought to reduce Trump to some monstrous entity deserving of hanging, stabbing, decapitation, incineration, and shooting. It sought to indict, impeach, and remove a sitting president, as the ancien régime rushed to break federal law with assumed ethical exemption — tapping, surveilling, lying, and leaking with impunity, assured that supposedly morally superior ends justified any means necessary to achieve them.

In other words, the custodians of the status quo arrogantly grabbed up the Trump land mine and thought they could easily toss it away — as it has blown them sky-high.


VICTOR DAVIS HANSON — NRO contributor Victor Davis Hanson is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and the author, most recently, of The Second World Wars: How the First Global Conflict Was Fought and Won. @vdhanson

@Desert Fox @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote @Ashes

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## Hamartia Antidote

Nilgiri said:


> The Trump Land Mine



Truly they have taken the term "sore loser" to the extreme. The sad thing is they still don't understand Hillary was unelectable. They honestly think they got robbed of an easy win.

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## Gomig-21

Nilgiri said:


> *Trump’s attacks on the FBI have been filled with inaccuracies and innuendo, wrongly claiming on Twitter, for instance, that McCabe was in charge of the Clinton email investigation.* Trump makes a point of praising rank-and-file agents, but his punches have landed inside the FBI and out. Some worry the damage may take years to repair. “I fear Trump’s relentless attacks on the institution are having an effect on the public’s confidence in the FBI,” says Matthew S. Axelrod, a senior Justice Department official in the Obama Administration.



And this is really the main issue I have with this clown show of an administration. The credibility is that of a pile of cow dung. The constant lying and perpetual untruthful statements are denigrating this hallowed institution and are the reason for the chaos and the media blitz. I don't give a rat's tail if he cheated on his wife with a **** star way back when, it's how he and his pack of gangsters are dealing with it. This clown show is behaving in an unprecedented way. You ask "well who gives a crap," right? "The economy is doing well and he's getting this and that done etc." Well, many care about that little silly thing called "integrity" because it's essential to the leader of the free world and more importantly to the individual that has been awarded to position of representing the best interests of the American people. We simply cannot put a veil on that aspect and ignore it simply because some might think it doesn't matter. The core values of what represents the US presidency are being bastardize to no end and that's not something that can be ignored. 



Nilgiri said:


> Mueller may play an outsize role in how his old agency gets through the current crisis. If the special counsel finds that Russia did collude with members of the Trump campaign–the central question in his investigation–and any perpetrators are charged and found guilty in court, it would rebut Trump’s charges of a “witch hunt.” If Mueller finds no evidence of collusion, or declines to make it public, it would open the door for Trump and his campaign to paint the FBI as a band of partisan hacks with a reputation, as he has tweeted, “in tatters.”



And there you go. This is what we want to see. But to sit here ahead of the completion of the investigation and call it a "nothing burger" and a "witch hunt" and all that goes exactly against what the critics of the investigation are perpetrating is the epitome of hypocrisy. We need to get to the bottom of what happened because it is important. Everyone (including the president of the United States) is subject to the laws and must abide by them. And if there was any collusion or not, until then, a self deluded, power hungry Gumba like Julliani is not going to make a difference like he seems to think he will. That was the biggest laughable thought about that entire process and if that was why he was brought in like he said, then he's failing miserably at it since all he's done is contradict what Trump has been saying about all those little insignificant things like Stormy Daniels and creating even more contradictions which have brought even more chaos. This is what happens when these guys who have some history of success in big, historic events start thinking they're all that and start flying off the cuff. He's caused more issues for the presidency than there was before he started flapping his yap. And to think he has any say in wrapping up the special counsel's investigation is laughable beyond belief. He's gonna have to get back in line and wait it out just like the rest of us.

And here's the other thing: if there wasn't any collusion -- FBI history and failing issues not withstanding -- then why not just sit back and let it take its course without any of the stupidity that keeps fueling it? Why keep calling it a witch hunt and whisper in the ear of the former FBI director that you hope to "let it go," a specific and VERY serious criminal investigation of a powerful individual who has been proven to be a criminal? Why even promote a semblance of obstruction of justice when you're supposedly not guilty and this is all nothing but a nothing burger? Maybe that's why we don't really know if it is indeed a nothing burger, since almost all the behavior that we're witnessing, is to the contrary. 



Nilgiri said:


> Who cares honestly....Obummer never got anything done regarding hostages held (or anything really) by the Norks....zilch...nada. That's what Trump is basically saying, if you want to get hung up on the details like MSM cherrypicking wants...you are welcome to.



I completely disagree. If that was his point, then what's stopping him from articulating the point the way you just did? If you, an outstanding individual and a normal Canadian citizen is capable of outlining the point with such ease but the president of the United States can't even come close and says it in a way that is untruthful is nothing short of ineptitude, compiled with a narcissistic desire to unravel and dismantle and denigrate everything his predecessor has done. Maybe some are ok with his lying, his constant lying, lying and lying and lying and lying again, but some of us find it repulsive and frankly disturbing. That might be ok with some, but not for those who brazenly think that there needs to be some integrity to the position of the president of the United States. How dare we! lol.

Why is there a constant need to lie to the American public or to take us as morons who don't know what's really going on? It's because he's a compulsive liar and the reality is that he constantly brings it on himself. It's his blind, self aggrandizing that is getting the best of him. Most people would say that's a strong sign of insecurity and the lying comes without a single, second thought of the consequence. It's a sad reality of the character of the current president of the United States. Where he's definitely succeeding is with his base, and that doesn't say much about their character either if they're easily manipulated by this constant need for self-promotion at any cost.

And you need to put aside the MSM stuff, my friend. We're not looking at it solely from a one-sided telescope. There's a difference between those who camp exclusively on one side or the other at any cost and those who want to see the entire picture as it stands through an objective lens and want to see the best of both worlds. If you think it's ok to just dismiss the guidelines that keep those who are in power -- including the president of the United States -- accountable for _all_ their actions and accountable to the highest standards of leadership, then you're doing exactly what you're accusing others of doing. 

To me it's not about crazy liberals, democrats, republicans or right-wing nut-jobs. It's about integrity, accountability, strong purpose, the best representation of public service to the American people and of course, results. These are essential to the position of president of the United States and this freak is the worst representation of the majority of those values.

One thing I will say about this amazing North Korean turnaround; it's still way to early to be popping the cap of a champagne bottle. North Korean exports fell *91%* from 2017 to the start of 2018. That a brutal hit that I'm sure had a lot to do with Trump's tactless way of handling that situation, and the pressure he most definitely put on Xi Jinping. I'm sure that the pressure bore down onto NK by the Trump administration has yielded this amazing result that we're seeing right now. However, I see a lot of obstacles in the way for denuclearizing the Korean peninsula and what Kim Jong Un will want in return for whatever he's willing to offer that there is a long way to do. Not to mention the way the Iran deal and JCPOA was handled and the timing of it that suggests that it might backfire since now who would ever trust the US to hold it's end of the bargain to an agreement when it can flip-flop from one administration to the other. We shall see.

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## Nilgiri

Gomig-21 said:


> And this is really the main issue I have with this clown show of an administration. The credibility is that of a pile of cow dung. The constant lying and perpetual untruthful statements are denigrating this hallowed institution and are the reason for the chaos and the media blitz. I don't give a rat's tail if he cheated on his wife with a **** star way back when, it's how he and his pack of gangsters are dealing with it. This clown show is behaving in an unprecedented way. You ask "well who gives a crap," right? "The economy is doing well and he's getting this and that done etc." Well, many care about that little silly thing called "integrity" because it's essential to the leader of the free world and more importantly to the individual that has been awarded to position of representing the best interests of the American people. We simply cannot put a veil on that aspect and ignore it simply because some might think it doesn't matter. The core values of what represents the US presidency are being bastardize to no end and that's not something that can be ignored.
> 
> 
> 
> And there you go. This is what we want to see. But to sit here ahead of the completion of the investigation and call it a "nothing burger" and a "witch hunt" and all that goes exactly against what the critics of the investigation are perpetrating is the epitome of hypocrisy. We need to get to the bottom of what happened because it is important. Everyone (including the president of the United States) is subject to the laws and must abide by them. And if there was any collusion or not, until then, a self deluded, power hungry Gumba like Julliani is not going to make a difference like he seems to think he will. That was the biggest laughable thought about that entire process and if that was why he was brought in like he said, then he's failing miserably at it since all he's done is contradict what Trump has been saying about all those little insignificant things like Stormy Daniels and creating even more contradictions which have brought even more chaos. This is what happens when these guys who have some history of success in big, historic events start thinking they're all that and start flying off the cuff. He's caused more issues for the presidency than there was before he started flapping his yap. And to think he has any say in wrapping up the special counsel's investigation is laughable beyond belief. He's gonna have to get back in line and wait it out just like the rest of us.
> 
> And here's the other thing: if there wasn't any collusion -- FBI history and failing issues not withstanding -- then why not just sit back and let it take its course without any of the stupidity that keeps fueling it? Why keep calling it a witch hunt and whisper in the ear of the former FBI director that you hope to "let it go," a specific and VERY serious criminal investigation of a powerful individual who has been proven to be a criminal? Why even promote a semblance of obstruction of justice when you're supposedly not guilty and this is all nothing but a nothing burger? Maybe that's why we don't really know if it is indeed a nothing burger, since almost all the behavior that we're witnessing, is to the contrary.
> 
> 
> 
> I completely disagree. If that was his point, then what's stopping him from articulating the point the way you just did? If you, an outstanding individual and a normal Canadian citizen is capable of outlining the point with such ease but the president of the United States can't even come close and says it in a way that is untruthful is nothing short of ineptitude, compiled with a narcissistic desire to unravel and dismantle and denigrate everything his predecessor has done. Maybe some are ok with his lying, his constant lying, lying and lying and lying and lying again, but some of us find it repulsive and frankly disturbing. That might be ok with some, but not for those who brazenly think that there needs to be some integrity to the position of the president of the United States. How dare we! lol.
> 
> Why is there a constant need to lie to the American public or to take us as morons who don't know what's really going on? It's because he's a compulsive liar and the reality is that he constantly brings it on himself. It's his blind, self aggrandizing that is getting the best of him. Most people would say that's a strong sign of insecurity and the lying comes without a single, second thought of the consequence. It's a sad reality of the character of the current president of the United States. Where he's definitely succeeding is with his base, and that doesn't say much about their character either if they're easily manipulated by this constant need for self-promotion at any cost.
> 
> And you need to put aside the MSM stuff, my friend. We're not looking at it solely from a one-sided telescope. There's a difference between those who camp exclusively on one side or the other at any cost and those who want to see the entire picture as it stands through an objective lens and want to see the best of both worlds. If you think it's ok to just dismiss the guidelines that keep those who are in power -- including the president of the United States -- accountable for _all_ their actions and accountable to the highest standards of leadership, then you're doing exactly what you're accusing others of doing.
> 
> To me it's not about crazy liberals, democrats, republicans or right-wing nut-jobs. It's about integrity, accountability, strong purpose, the best representation of public service to the American people and of course, results. These are essential to the position of president of the United States and this freak is the worst representation of the majority of those values.
> 
> One thing I will say about this amazing North Korean turnaround; it's still way to early to be popping the cap of a champagne bottle. North Korean exports fell *91%* from 2017 to the start of 2018. That a brutal hit that I'm sure had a lot to do with Trump's tactless way of handling that situation, and the pressure he most definitely put on Xi Jinping. I'm sure that the pressure bore down onto NK by the Trump administration has yielded this amazing result that we're seeing right now. However, I see a lot of obstacles in the way for denuclearizing the Korean peninsula and what Kim Jong Un will want in return for whatever he's willing to offer that there is a long way to do. Not to mention the way the Iran deal and JCPOA was handled and the timing of it that suggests that it might backfire since now who would ever trust the US to hold it's end of the bargain to an agreement when it can flip-flop from one administration to the other. We shall see.



I have to give you thumbs up just for typing all of that 

I did go through it buddy, and you bring up many good points....at one point I also was very much sharing your opinion overall. But others things we are going to be going in circles, esp in a forum atmosphere (I do so prefer face to face chat for this kinda stuff).

BTW at the root of the issue, I think todays Sunday special by Ben (featuring Dave Rubin) covers a lot of what I think gave rise to Trump, its well worth watching when you have some time to spare:


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## Nilgiri

Gomig-21 said:


> The constant lying



Ben nicely summarizes the difference in_ what_ is being lied about effectively (and the clear double standard in reporting this regarding MSM-friendly obama admin and current trump admin), you should watch at least the first 20 minutes of this or so:






The issue of note that has now come up on how the Obama admin deliberately LIED on a significant policy matter (if much higher actionable significance to the US public and world), not once, not twice but repeatedly and comprehensively...but the MSM (even with this report) used a significant double standard and have clearly failed the "if the shoe were on the other foot" test in both past and present:

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/06/06/us/politics/ap-us-united-states-iran.html

@Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL @TexasJohn @jhungary

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## jhungary

Nilgiri said:


> The Trump Land Mine
> 
> Explosives require careful handling. Sometimes they blow up in your face.
> 
> By VICTOR DAVIS HANSON
> May 8, 2018 7:55 AM
> nationalreview.com
> 
> After the 2016 election, the so-called deep state was confident that it had the power easily to either stop, remove, or delegitimize the outlier Donald Trump and his presidency.
> 
> Give it credit, the Washington apparat quite imaginatively pulled out all the stops: implanting Obama holdover appointees all over the Trump executive branch; filing lawsuits and judge shopping; organizing the Resistance; pursuing impeachment writs; warping the FISA courts; weaponizing the DOJ and FBI; attempting to disrupt the Electoral College; angling for enactment of the 25th Amendment or the emoluments clause; and unleashing Hollywood celebrities, Silicon Valley, and many in Wall Street to suffocate the Trump presidency in its infancy.
> 
> But now the administrative state’s multifaceted efforts are starting to unwind, and perhaps even boomerang, on the perpetrators. If a federal judge should end up throwing out most of the indictments of Paul Manafort on the rationale that they have nothing much to do with the original mandate of the special counsel’s office, or if Michael Flynn’s confession to giving false statements is withdrawn successfully because the FBI politicized its investigation and FISA courts were misled in approving the surveillance of Flynn, then the Mueller investigation will implode.
> 
> Indeed, the Mueller investigation would likely lose so much public support that the Department of Justice could probably dismiss it with impunity. So, in an ironic sense, Mueller’s overreach might well end once and for all the absurdities of the special counsel/prosecutor law that for nearly half a century has plagued the nation.
> 
> Until recently, deep-state apparatchiks such as John Brennan, James Clapper, James Comey, and Andrew McCabe seemed immune from accountability after lying either to Congress or to federal authorities. In a perverse sort of way, the more Robert Mueller plays the role of the obsessed but impotent Inspector Javert, the more he demonstrates that there is no Russian-Trump collusion. Meanwhile, he is establishing precedents that those whom he exempts from his own zeal will inevitably have to account for their own lawbreaking. One cannot justifiably hound Michael Flynn for supposedly misleading FBI agents, when agency investigators were told by Huma Abedin and Cheryl Mills that they had known nothing about Hillary Clinton’s private server during her tenure as secretary of state — despite evidence that they themselves had communicated over it (as had the former president of the United States).
> 
> In his increasing desperation, Mueller may manage to finish off the declining reputation of FBI’s Washington office to the degree that there is not much left of it after the work of James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Lisa Page, and Peter Strzok. And he may only fuel more criminal complaints against deep-state bureaucrats who worked at the FBI and the DOJ.
> 
> In truth, the multiplex world of the establishment is crumbling in a variety of arenas, from entertainment to the workplace. Certainly, the NFL is both bleeding viewers and now seen as an ancillary of the progressive movement. The sports channel ESPN is losing its audience that is tired of being lectured about its supposed ethical shortcomings instead of being enlightened about three-point shots and no-hitters. The century-old White House Correspondents’ Dinner is going the way of the 90-year-old Oscars: It’s an increasingly incestuous night of progressive virtue-signaling, crudity, and mediocrity that permanently turned off millions of former viewers. Americans can forgive a lot of shortcomings in their entertainers; boredom is not one of them.
> 
> Between the Me Too movement and the Russian-collusion hysteria, not much remains of the reputations of Hollywood and the media. When, fairly or not, Tom Brokaw is lumped into the ranks of Mark Halpern, Dustin Hoffman, Garrison Keillor, Larry King, Matt Lauer, Ryan Lizza, Charlie Rose, Tavis Smiley, Kevin Spacey, Harvey Weinstein, and a host of others, there is really not much left of the old power brokers. Once upon a time, Americans assumed that a Tom Brokaw, Matt Lauer, Dan Rather, or Charlie Rose were their go-tos for ethical and sober journalism. Again, justly or not, that norm no longer holds. NBC and CNN, which have long routinely parodied Fox News, are far less likely than Fox to permit ideological and political diversity on the air.
> 
> Silicon Valley likewise has lost its luster. Once upon a time, America loved a hip Steve Jobs, decked out in black, fiddling with a new Apple gadget on stage in front of an entranced televised audience of millions. Jobs appeared as a brilliant and typically American entrepreneur, not a partisan talking down to hoi polloi.
> 
> Things have radically changed since then. The reputation of Big Tech is one of hyper-partisan politics, data miners, snoops, Bowdlerizers and censors, monopolists, progressive multibillionaires, and adolescents in arrested development who exempt themselves from the consequences of what their ideologies inflict on others.
> 
> In Wizard of Oz fashion, it’s as if the public is no longer frightened of the omnipotent imperial faces on their screens — once it drew apart the high-tech curtains and exposed tiny little nerds with nasal voices furiously working levers and gears to project deceptive all-powerful images. Even a four-trillion-dollar industry can take only so many scandals like those at Theranos, Facebook data mining, deliberately slowed-down iPhones, fatally texting drivers, and Mark Zuckerbergs.
> 
> Donald Trump proved to be a catalyst for much of the implosion of the deep state. Land mines require careful handling. Only arrogant naïfs think that they can rush in, grab them, and carelessly and safely toss them away — clueless that they themselves are exposed as reckless moments before they blow themselves up.
> 
> If the deep state really wanted to dismantle and disarm Donald Trump, it would have been wise first to carefully learn how he was constructed and wired — and thus why he was especially dangerous to them. Then to disarm him, elites would have had to offer superior agendas to his supporters, while engaging in reasoned debates and alternative visions — working with him when they found common and shared solutions, playing the loyal opposition when there did not.
> 
> Instead, the government, the political apparat, the media, tech, and entertainment conglomerates sought to reduce Trump to some monstrous entity deserving of hanging, stabbing, decapitation, incineration, and shooting. It sought to indict, impeach, and remove a sitting president, as the ancien régime rushed to break federal law with assumed ethical exemption — tapping, surveilling, lying, and leaking with impunity, assured that supposedly morally superior ends justified any means necessary to achieve them.
> 
> In other words, the custodians of the status quo arrogantly grabbed up the Trump land mine and thought they could easily toss it away — as it has blown them sky-high.
> 
> 
> VICTOR DAVIS HANSON — NRO contributor Victor Davis Hanson is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and the author, most recently, of The Second World Wars: How the First Global Conflict Was Fought and Won. @vdhanson
> 
> @Desert Fox @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote @Ashes



I don't generally talk about US politic nowadays, I see that like a freak show or witch hunt of some sort. 

I personally dislike Trump, but what the other guy do is not making things easier for normal people as well, time to think why Trump get elected in the first place, instead of digging his dirt, the Demo should have done something benefit the country, not start a topic on the latest talk show.

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## Nilgiri

Just to give an idea about the red guard operating in US right now:

@nang2 @Desert Fox @jhungary @Hamartia Antidote @TexasJohn






Remember Crowder is not really a trump supporter and overall pretty centrish guy.

...and of course _he_ has to leave, not the ones actually making the threats and big commie scene. Cops have to start actually doing their job fairly with these things....rather than do "whoever is in larger number gets to stay, minority leaves".

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## nang2

Nilgiri said:


> Just to give an idea about the red guard operating in US right now:
> 
> @nang2 @Desert Fox @jhungary @Hamartia Antidote @TexasJohn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember Crowder is not really a trump supporter and overall pretty centrish guy.
> 
> ...and of course _he_ has to leave, not the ones actually making the threats and big commie scene. Cops have to start actually doing their job fairly with these things....rather than do "whoever is in larger number gets to stay, minority leaves".


I like this dude.

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## RabzonKhan

Long live United States of America! Happy Fourth of July to all Americans!

Cheers!

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Long live United States of America! Happy Fourth of July to all Americans!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> View attachment 484333



lol, the clown in chief.

I'll tell you what, brace up for the backfire his whole imposing tariffs policy is going to do to this economy.
We're in for a real treat that is not going to be pleasant and the after-effects will last for many years.

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## Desert Fox

@Nilgiri @Hamartia Antidote @Gomig-21



Nilgiri said:


> Just to give an idea about the red guard operating in US right now:
> 
> @nang2 @Desert Fox @jhungary @Hamartia Antidote @TexasJohn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember Crowder is not really a trump supporter and overall pretty centrish guy.
> 
> ...and of course _he_ has to leave, not the ones actually making the threats and big commie scene. Cops have to start actually doing their job fairly with these things....rather than do "whoever is in larger number gets to stay, minority leaves".


Strange. I never got the notification for this.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Desert Fox said:


> .



Interesting at 7:23 he says "The good Liberals in the Boston suburbs.."
This is @Gomig-21 and my backyard.

So...hmm..sure I think this is a great experiment with the commuter rail stations.
There is definitely more than a little bit of hypocrisy at play here. Although singling out Latinos is a bit unfair as you could have easily put two black people there too and probably would have gotten an even worse result. Then you kind of wonder what the real issue is.

Oddly the narrator seemed to go out of his way to talk about Latinos declaring themselves white...which is a bit weird since they pretty much already are. That is a whole other story in itself. In fact everybody's fear of that crazy delinquent Puerto Rican from "Welcome Back Kotter" Juan Epstein moving in next door or hanging out at the station





was unfounded since he was played by a Hungarian-Italian actor...but who knew? Everybody actually assumed he was a Puerto Rican actor so somehow in people's eyes he became/looked less white?

Anyways...it probably has more to do with a fear of crime and poverty which people see personified by our friend Juan above or his friend Freddie Washington.

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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> Long live United States of America! Happy Fourth of July to all Americans!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> View attachment 484333



Haha, hey rabzon bud, you aren't around too much lately...hope you are doing well and enduring the "Trump-pression" well 

We should chat more closer to midterms etc.

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## Gomig-21

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Interesting at 7:23 he says "The good Liberals in the Boston suburbs.."
> This is @Gomig-21 and my backyard.



lol. While I would never suppose to speak on your behalf, I think I can guess pretty correctly that while I do share certain, minor, liberal views, I think it's safe to say that neither you or myself are anything near "liberals"! 



Hamartia Antidote said:


> Oddly the narrator seemed to go out of his way to talk about Latinos declaring themselves white...which is a bit weird since they pretty much already are. That is a whole other story in itself. In fact everybody's fear of that crazy delinquent Puerto Rican from "Welcome Back Kotter" Juan Epstein moving in next door or hanging out at the station



LOL Juan Epstein! That was a great show. Always wondered how Gabe Kotter had such a gorgeous wife lol.  And what a character that Alrnold Horskack loool.



Nilgiri said:


> Haha, hey rabzon bud, you aren't around too much lately...hope you are doing well and enduring the "Trump-pression" well



Hey, your buddy is taking a beautiful beating right now isn't he? lol. Clown can't bring himself to admit Russian interference in the election despite all intelligence reports because he's so afraid of the notion that it might cast that inevitable dark cloud on his election's legitimacy. That clownship royale he's parading with those absolutely pathetic walkbacks of his Helsinki summit disaster are worst than my 7th grade excuses that my dog ate my homework. The "sort of a double negative" was pure gold LOL!

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## Nilgiri

Gomig-21 said:


> Hey, your buddy is taking a beautiful beating right now isn't he? lol. Clown can't bring himself to admit Russian interference in the election despite all intelligence reports because he's so afraid of the notion that it might cast that inevitable dark cloud on his election's legitimacy. That clownship royale he's parading with those absolutely pathetic walkbacks of his Helsinki summit disaster are worst than my 7th grade excuses that my dog ate my homework. The "sort of a double negative" was pure gold LOL!



Ben Shapiro addresses it all quite well, you should watch 

As Rand Paul said "people should be really worried that Brennan with this level of bias (and outright communist party voting in the 70s), was a CIA director".

Not even going to again bring up Clapper outright perjuring himself about "NSA doesn't spy on US citizens to the best of my knowledge blah blah".

Also the Russian interference we're talking about occured under "hot mic - Obama's watch " i will have more flexibility after the election"  (Medvedev - "i transmit this to putin immediately").

Who is really standing up to Russia and Putin where it actually counts? Let's hear it from someone who had to actually fight a conflict against them....not some intersectional triggered swamp-crats who give Obama a big ole pass:

https://thefederalist.com/2018/07/18/just-like-obama-trumps-russia-policy-speaks-louder-words/

Or is he simply another Trumpkin?

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## Nilgiri



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## Desert Fox

@Gomig-21 @Nilgiri @Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL

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## Gomig-21

Desert Fox said:


> @Gomig-21 @Nilgiri @Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL
> 
> AntiFa Communists get a taste of their own medicine. This is some crazy stuff but this is just an example of the polarization of American politics which are increasingly become ideological and indentity based rather than political alone.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1023194776466870273



These idiots need to find girlfriends or get a job or something.

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## Desert Fox

@Nilgiri @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote​

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> @Nilgiri @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote​



I think it was crowder that did a bunch of episodes on this same topic, here is the most famous one:

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## Desert Fox

*"No Trump, no wall, no USA at all"*,
From the recent Leftist protests
In DC and Charlottesville on 8/12/2018






@Nilgiri @Hamartia Antidote @LeGenD @Gomig-21


Here is Tucker Carlsons take on the recent Leftist violence:

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## Desert Fox

Leftist mob rule. Trump win in 2020 doesn't sound so bad






@Nilgiri @Hamartia Antidote @Gomig-21

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## Gomig-21

Desert Fox said:


> Leftist mob rule. Trump win in 2020 doesn't sound so bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Nilgiri @Hamartia Antidote @Gomig-21



I can only listen to about 10 seconds of these people screaming at each other, but I must say, no matter my views about this current clown of an administration, people like those two don't deserve that kind of harassment and certainly not the physical abuse they went through. And honestly, this is not necessarily a new thing. This division was very front and center and super violent in the late 50's into the early 60's for much different reasons. This is almost a certain when you have such a huge, melting pot that's not really sitting on the table, it's simmering on an open flame and it's not being helped by what is most certainly a bigot of a president. 

As far as 2020, if the country continues to stay on top the way it has, and the economy continues on its track and we don't see that inevitable recession that's bound to happen from these policies that were put in place during this administration especially that tax cut, then I don't see a reason why he shouldn't be elected again, especially when the democrats don't have anyone that can stand to him ATM. 

I just felt the result of the tariffs he put on Canada when I went to order these certain western red cedar beams for a project we're doing and their availability and lead time AND cost were greatly affected by the imposed tariffs. While that was a drag and a half for sure, I actually don't mind him imposing tariffs on these other countries that have been milking us to no end through the decades. I think that's actually a great thing and I'll even be more honest with the fact that I'm super happy at the tariffs imposed on Turkey. While the reason is a bit pathetic if it really has everything to do with the pastor in prison, but it's astounding what the implications to the Turkish lira have been and I couldn't be happier about that, especially with the riff that complete clown Erdogan created with Egypt. But Turkey is a spec when it comes to the US economy and has almost 0 relevance in that respect. It's China and Europe that will really test this bold strategy by the clown in chief.

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## VCheng

Gomig-21 said:


> As far as 2020, if the country continues to stay on top the way it has, and the economy continues on its track and we don't see that inevitable recession that's bound to happen from these policies that were put in place during this administration especially that tax cut, then I don't see a reason why he shouldn't be elected again, especially when the democrats don't have anyone that can stand to him ATM.



As always, the health of the economy will be the key in any Presidential election, as you rightly mention. The upcoming mid-terms will be crucial in setting the political tone of the remaining term of the present circus.

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## cloud4000

VCheng said:


> As always, the health of the economy will be the key in any Presidential election, as you rightly mention. The upcoming mid-terms will be crucial in setting the political tone of the remaining term of the present circus.



We will see how the health of US economy will be two years on. US is enjoying short-term benefits right now, so everybody is buoyant. But rising deficits and interest rates plus a rising trade war with rest of the planet will have a negative impact, just not right now.

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## VCheng

cloud4000 said:


> We will see how the health of US economy will be two years on. US is enjoying short-term benefits right now, so everybody is buoyant. But rising deficits and interest rates plus a rising trade war with rest of the planet will have a negative impact, just not right now.



Yes, I know. The dollar is dead. USA will soon follow.

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## cloud4000

VCheng said:


> Yes, I know. The dollar is dead. USA will soon follow.



The dollar is dead and so is the USA are recurring themes on PDF.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

*Trump's approval rating hits rock bottom in latest ABC-Washington Post poll*

https://boingboing.net/2018/08/31/trumps-approval-rating-hits.html


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## Nilgiri

Gomig-21 said:


> I can only listen to about 10 seconds of these people screaming at each other, but I must say, no matter my views about this current clown of an administration, people like those two don't deserve that kind of harassment and certainly not the physical abuse they went through. And honestly, this is not necessarily a new thing. This division was very front and center and super violent in the late 50's into the early 60's for much different reasons. This is almost a certain when you have such a huge, melting pot that's not really sitting on the table, it's simmering on an open flame and it's not being helped by what is most certainly a bigot of a president.
> 
> As far as 2020, if the country continues to stay on top the way it has, and the economy continues on its track and we don't see that inevitable recession that's bound to happen from these policies that were put in place during this administration especially that tax cut, then I don't see a reason why he shouldn't be elected again, especially when the democrats don't have anyone that can stand to him ATM.
> 
> I just felt the result of the tariffs he put on Canada when I went to order these certain western red cedar beams for a project we're doing and their availability and lead time AND cost were greatly affected by the imposed tariffs. While that was a drag and a half for sure, I actually don't mind him imposing tariffs on these other countries that have been milking us to no end through the decades. I think that's actually a great thing and I'll even be more honest with the fact that I'm super happy at the tariffs imposed on Turkey. While the reason is a bit pathetic if it really has everything to do with the pastor in prison, but it's astounding what the implications to the Turkish lira have been and I couldn't be happier about that, especially with the riff that complete clown Erdogan created with Egypt. But Turkey is a spec when it comes to the US economy and has almost 0 relevance in that respect. It's China and Europe that will really test this bold strategy by the clown in chief.



Economically it is somewhat temporary relief because there is still no concrete plan (and I doubt there ever will be since it needs common sense bipartisan support...good luck with that with the level of polarisation over the simplest of things now) to tackle the commited mandatory spending (mainly medicare, medicaid, welfare etc) that exceeds revenue by huge factor (and thus adds to national debt + underlying stripping of USD seigniorage - most of the latter being accumulated from the early 20th century up to the vietnam war) and is ramping up significantly with time at current projection.

Basically trump tax cuts give a debt-fuelled subsidy to the US economy....the greater economic growth (esp with deregulation reforms) could indeed grow the tax revenue more in the long run...but is it enough to surmount the fundamental problem of the long term national debt and USD value erosion?...I don't think so...it may delay it, but enough people at some point soon need to not care about political careers and bite the bullet and take much needed crucial and unpopular decisions (i.e willing to be unpopular and hated their whole lives by many many people, but remembered well in the longer term). This was somewhat easier to do when the economy was a lot simpler like say during the Civil war (Lincoln is a good example of an unpopular president during his time gaining much respect well after for the decisions he took)....but now its increasingly solidified into a case of the "emperor's new clothes" kind of story in the political elite....with no one wanting to call it out (well Ron Paul and his son come somewhat close but they never were in contention probably because of that reason).

However that is all beyond Trump tbh, it has more to do with the political class having completely absconded from pragmatic Economics 101. We need 100 milton friedmans as senators right about now...and about 500 of them in the house....instead there is a intersectional cacophony that thrives on politicking and kicking the can and continually ignoring/denying what the long term problem is with the fed. This is the basic problem when you have dissonance in political term lengths (president limited to 2, but no term limits on senators or congressmen) compared to the short term renewal/common sense dynamics agreement on long term objectives that a continually changing economy needs.

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## RabzonKhan

With the death of Sen McCain, America has lost one of its most influential leaders. Sen McCain was not just a war hero but was an American hero. Though he was a conservative and I am a liberal, but I respected him for many great things he did for this country.

He was a courageous man, as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, despite solitary confinement and torture, he refused early release ahead of fellow prisoners.

He was a decent man, during the 2008 presidential campaign, a woman at his campaign rally said, “I can’t trust Obama, I have read about him, he is an Arab”. McCain took the microphone from her and said: “no ma’am, no ma’am, he is a decent family man, a citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues, and that’s what this campaign is all about.”






McCain also never hesitated from criticizing his own fellow Republican President’s destructive policies, he rightfully called Trump’s Helsinki news conference with Putin “one of the most disgraceful performances by an American Pres in memory.”

He also did the right thing by voting against his Republican party sponsored re-appeal of Obama care.
I will always remember him as an American hero!

==============================================


Mid-term elections are heating up, November 6, 2018 is going to be an exciting day, hopefully.

Bravo, Pres Obama broke tradition and came out swinging at Trump. Here are some of the main points of the speech:








Nilgiri said:


> Haha, hey rabzon bud, you aren't around too much lately...hope you are doing well and enduring the "Trump-pression" well
> 
> We should chat more closer to midterms etc.


I’m really very excited, it’s now less than 60 days left for the big day. Even though I’ve been extremely busy, but I still take time to donate to Democrats as much as I can especially to the House of Representative since I believe they have a far better chance taking back control of the House, in the house of 435 the Democrats just need 23 to win the majority.

Mid-term elections are usually referendum on President and historically ruling party loses seats and with Trump’s approval rating hovering in the low 40s, the Democrats have a good chance.

And if the Democrats take control of the House they could undermine Trump’s perilous agenda, his tax cuts for the filthy rich, anti-immigration agenda, his crazy trade wars, especially with our Western friends (I think most Democrats are okay with US-China trade war) etc.

@Gomig-21, my friend, I hope you are doing your part.

Cheers!


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## Darmashkian

I'm back after a long time, I hope you haven't forgotten me.

The way things are going, I see the republicans winning more seats in the Senate,but losing some in the House.

I think we can actually see this:-
1.Senate:- Rep gets 55-57+
2.House:-Dems get a slim majority of 10.


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## RabzonKhan

It seems Trump and his attack dog Giuliani’s attacks on Mueller to undermine his investigation are not working, the American people are not buying into their lies and BS conspiracies. I’m loving it! 








*CNN Poll: Gap between Mueller, Trump approval grows
*
By Jennifer Agiesta, CNN Polling Director

Special counsel Robert Mueller's approval rating for handling the Russia investigation stands at 50% in a new CNN Poll conducted by SSRS. That outpaces President Donald Trump's approval rating on the matter by 20 points.

The poll is CNN's first since the conviction of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort on tax and bank fraud charges stemming from Mueller's investigation and guilty pleas from Trump's former lawyer Michael Cohen on several charges after an investigation that Mueller had referred to the US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York. *Read more*

* 
*





Darmashkian said:


> I'm back after a long time, I hope you haven't forgotten me.
> 
> The way things are going, I see the republicans winning more seats in the Senate,but losing some in the House.
> 
> *I think we can actually see this:-
> 1.Senate:- Rep gets 55-57+
> 2.House:-Dems get a slim majority of 10.*


May I ask, based on what?

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## cloud4000

Darmashkian said:


> I'm back after a long time, I hope you haven't forgotten me.
> 
> The way things are going, I see the republicans winning more seats in the Senate,but losing some in the House.
> 
> I think we can actually see this:-
> 1.Senate:- Rep gets 55-57+
> 2.House:-Dems get a slim majority of 10.



I think Republicans will retain control of the Senate, but it's majority will be razor thin. This is why the Senate is so keen on confirming Kavanaugh for SCOTUS. They know what's coming.

Democrats will control the House. By how much? Nobody knows. It, too, could be razor thing even with so many Republicans deciding not to run.



RabzonKhan said:


> It seems Trump and his attack dog Giuliani’s attacks on Mueller to undermine his investigation are not working, the American people are not buying into their lies and BS conspiracies. I’m loving it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CNN Poll: Gap between Mueller, Trump approval grows
> *
> By Jennifer Agiesta, CNN Polling Director
> 
> Special counsel Robert Mueller's approval rating for handling the Russia investigation stands at 50% in a new CNN Poll conducted by SSRS. That outpaces President Donald Trump's approval rating on the matter by 20 points.
> 
> The poll is CNN's first since the conviction of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort on tax and bank fraud charges stemming from Mueller's investigation and guilty pleas from Trump's former lawyer Michael Cohen on several charges after an investigation that Mueller had referred to the US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York. *Read more*



It wouldn't surprise me if Trump gets impeached...In fact, I'm expecting it. The man thinks he's untouchable.

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## RabzonKhan

*3 new polls show Democrats really could flip the House in November*

*These are the generic ballot numbers Democrats want to see.*
By Tara Golshan Sep 12, 2018

The 2018 midterms are looking even better for Democrats less than two months from Election Day, according to three polls released Wednesday.

Here’s what they found:


Registered voters prefer the Democratic candidate over the Republican candidate in their district by 52 percent to 38 percent — a 14-point advantage for Democrats — in US House races, according to a new poll from Quinnipiac University.
Another generic ballot poll from NPR and Marist College finds Democrats with a 12-point advantage in the 2018 midterms.
And Politico and Morning Consult found Democrats with a 10-point advantage over Republicans, 45 percent to 35 percent.
*Read more*

What a beautiful story: 




This Aug. 31, 2018 photo shows Safiya Wazir and her daughters Aaliyah, 2, and Mahwash outside their home in Concord, N.H. Wazir, an Afghan refugee, defeated District 17 State Rep. Dick Patten in the Democratic primary for a seat in the New Hampshire legislature, Tuesday, Sept. 11, 2018. (Geoff Forester/The Concord Monitor via AP) *Read more*


And that’s why I’m supporting Democrats, not that they are perfect, but look at the other side, that openly supports racism and religious discrimination.

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## Gomig-21

Nilgiri said:


> Economically it is somewhat temporary relief because there is still no concrete plan (and I doubt there ever will be since it needs common sense bipartisan support...good luck with that with the level of polarisation over the simplest of things now) to tackle the commited mandatory spending (mainly medicare, medicaid, welfare etc) that exceeds revenue by huge factor (and thus adds to national debt + underlying stripping of USD seigniorage - most of the latter being accumulated from the early 20th century up to the vietnam war) and is ramping up significantly with time at current projection.
> 
> Basically trump tax cuts give a debt-fuelled subsidy to the US economy....the greater economic growth (esp with deregulation reforms) could indeed grow the tax revenue more in the long run...but is it enough to surmount the fundamental problem of the long term national debt and USD value erosion?...I don't think so...it may delay it, but enough people at some point soon need to not care about political careers and bite the bullet and take much needed crucial and unpopular decisions (i.e willing to be unpopular and hated their whole lives by many many people, but remembered well in the longer term). This was somewhat easier to do when the economy was a lot simpler like say during the Civil war (Lincoln is a good example of an unpopular president during his time gaining much respect well after for the decisions he took)....but now its increasingly solidified into a case of the "emperor's new clothes" kind of story in the political elite....with no one wanting to call it out (well Ron Paul and his son come somewhat close but they never were in contention probably because of that reason).
> 
> However that is all beyond Trump tbh, it has more to do with the political class having completely absconded from pragmatic Economics 101. We need 100 milton friedmans as senators right about now...and about 500 of them in the house....instead there is a intersectional cacophony that thrives on politicking and kicking the can and continually ignoring/denying what the long term problem is with the fed. This is the basic problem when you have dissonance in political term lengths (president limited to 2, but no term limits on senators or congressmen) compared to the short term renewal/common sense dynamics agreement on long term objectives that a continually changing economy needs.



This is one of the best posts I have read on this entire forum since I joined. Very well said, Nilgiri. Everything is spot on and I actually couldn't disagree with any of the points you made. Between you and a very few other members such as @Desert Fox , it's enjoyable to read you guys' comments because of not only the level of intelligence, the understanding and ability to make the point is clearly displayed. Something that only comes with a certain, obvious level an excellent education and writing skills as well. Cheers, ma man. Namaste!  



RabzonKhan said:


> @Gomig-21, my friend, I hope you are doing your part.
> 
> Cheers!



Good to see you, Rabzon. Been a while, my friend. I am and will be doing my part, bro, fo sho! 



cloud4000 said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if Trump gets impeached...In fact, I'm expecting it. The man thinks he's untouchable.



Never seen anything like this. What did you think of that NYT OP ED? lol. If that doesn't give you a glimpse of the chaos and disorganization and most importantly, the threat this clown poses to this country, not sure what else does besides his obvious, child-like behavior that he has no qualms about displaying on Twitter on an hourly basis.

I think Bob Woodward's book is on it's 5th printing or some crazy thing like that before it's even on the stands! And some of the stuff in there is quite alarming, particularly the one he talked about that stuck out at me the most which was that piece of paper that was on his desk from either the Pentagon or some high-ranking official that contained the information about US military spending & presence in South Korea. Apparently with all the "money savings" this guy is totally obsessed about, he complained about the millions of $ that is being spent on keeping troops, especially intelligence observation posts in SK. So he asked why are we spending all this money and someone sent him this memo that described the absolute necessity of maintaining such military presence because that intel observation post keeps an eye on North Korea and if they fired anything that would be considered a threat, this observation station will be able to notify the proper authorities within 7 minutes so that a counter reaction can be processed as fast as possible. Obviously some really important stuff and this clown leaves that piece of paper with all that sensitive information on it on the corner of his desk and forgets about it while a bunch of people (including journalists etc.) without any security clearance are in the oval office -- and he's yacking it up with them and shooting off his mouth bragging about how great his comedy of chaos of an administration is -- and not only have a complete view of that piece of sensitive paper, but access to just grab it! So one of these guys who's part of this "team" that is looking out for the country against this clown's detrimental actions grabs the paper and puts it away until he was able to grab the clown aside and tell him about it and actually lecture him on that particular type of carelessness that can be a MAJOR problem. How crazy is that? Puts that OP ED into clear perspective for sure.

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## Desert Fox

Gomig-21 said:


> This is one of the best posts I have read on this entire forum since I joined. Very well said, Nilgiri. Everything is spot on and I actually couldn't disagree with any of the points you made. Between you and a very few other members such as @Desert Fox , it's enjoyable to read you guys' comments because of not only the level of intelligence, the understanding and ability to make the point is clearly displayed. Something that only comes with a certain, obvious level an excellent education and writing skills as well. Cheers, ma man. Namaste!
> 
> 
> 
> Good to see you, Rabzon. Been a while, my friend. I am and will be doing my part, bro, fo sho!
> 
> 
> 
> Never seen anything like this. What did you think of that NYT OP ED? lol. If that doesn't give you a glimpse of the chaos and disorganization and most importantly, the threat this clown poses to this country, not sure what else does besides his obvious, child-like behavior that he has no qualms about displaying on Twitter on an hourly basis.
> 
> I think Bob Woodward's book is on it's 5th printing or some crazy thing like that before it's even on the stands! And some of the stuff in there is quite alarming, particularly the one he talked about that stuck out at me the most which was that piece of paper that was on his desk from either the Pentagon or some high-ranking official that contained the information about US military spending & presence in South Korea. Apparently with all the "money savings" this guy is totally obsessed about, he complained about the millions of $ that is being spent on keeping troops, especially intelligence observation posts in SK. So he asked why are we spending all this money and someone sent him this memo that described the absolute necessity of maintaining such military presence because that intel observation post keeps an eye on North Korea and if they fired anything that would be considered a threat, this observation station will be able to notify the proper authorities within 7 minutes so that a counter reaction can be processed as fast as possible. Obviously some really important stuff and this clown leaves that piece of paper with all that sensitive information on it on the corner of his desk and forgets about it while a bunch of people (including journalists etc.) without any security clearance are in the oval office -- and he's yacking it up with them and shooting off his mouth bragging about how great his comedy of chaos of an administration is -- and not only have a complete view of that piece of sensitive paper, but access to just grab it! So one of these guys who's part of this "team" that is looking out for the country against this clown's detrimental actions grabs the paper and puts it away until he was able to grab the clown aside and tell him about it and actually lecture him on that particular type of carelessness that can be a MAJOR problem. How crazy is that? Puts that OP ED into clear perspective for sure.


Thanks my friend. I hold the same view of yourself, @Nilgiri, @Psychic and a few other members on this forum who contribute with quality posts and pose challenging arguments.

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## RabzonKhan

*Mid-term election 2018 in cartoons





*


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## Nilgiri

Gomig-21 said:


> This is one of the best posts I have read on this entire forum since I joined. Very well said, Nilgiri. Everything is spot on and I actually couldn't disagree with any of the points you made. Between you and a very few other members such as @Desert Fox , it's enjoyable to read you guys' comments because of not only the level of intelligence, the understanding and ability to make the point is clearly displayed. Something that only comes with a certain, obvious level an excellent education and writing skills as well. Cheers, ma man. Namaste!



Sokran my friend


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## Nilgiri

https://amgreatness.com/2018/09/14/why-black-voters-are-turning-to-trump/

Why Black Voters Are Turning to Trump

By Karin McQuillan
September 14th, 2018
amgreatness.com






The growing positive attitude of black voters towards President Trump is the wildcard in the coming midterm elections. It is real and it is expanding. Polls are showing anywhere from 20 percent to 36 percent of blacks approve of President Trump. The Democrats even may have lost 11 percent of black women.

The cracks in the black Democrat bloc voting are one of the most consequential results of Barack Obama’s presidency and the phenomenal effectiveness of President Trump’s pro-business policies. This could be a historic turning point.

Measurable Progress

Trump’s economic policies have improved the lives of black Americans, just as he promised they would during the election. Unlike Obama’s media hype, Trump’s progress is as real and as solid as his buildings. Black unemployment continues to fall. Good manufacturing jobs are coming back. Paychecks are rising, too.

The roots of this political watershed in the black community are more complex than job figures and will last beyond Trump’s tenure. I have been listening for hours to ordinary black Americans on the #Walkaway movement’s YouTube channel. This is a movement of former Democrats explaining why they are leaving their party. While each face, voice, and story is unique and fascinating, there are some striking recurring themes.

Ironically, the change seems to have started with President Obama’s election.

President Obama raised the hopes of black Americans to the highest they’ve been since Martin Luther King. The entire country expected he would devote himself to getting blacks better schools, more jobs, higher wages, and safer neighborhoods. Instead, Obama ignored those bread-and-butter needs. His signature initiative was to send Eric Holder to stoke up publicity and fear in the wake of the Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown shootings.

In the short term, hyping fake white racism and police brutality worked to stanch the bleeding in black turnout in the 2012 election. In the long term, however, Obama’s reliance on racial fear and grievance increased black suffering. He broke people’s hearts and blew up many black voters’ loyalty to the Democrats.

The #Walkaway videos are remarkably consistent on that score. Obama got them paying attention to party politics for the first time. Next came the emotional roller coaster, as joy turned to disappointment. Obama’s identity politics agenda, now amplified by progressive Democrats, was a cynical ploy and it has become is a total turn off to those now paying attention. These black voters hate illegal immigration. Obama marked the end of their romance with the Democrat Party, not a new beginning.

Surprised by the Truth

Few of these ex-Democrats voted for Trump, but they were willing to give Trump a chance after the election. They find Trump Derangement Syndrome ludicrous. In fact, they love what he is doing. They appreciate the jobs he is creating, and they share his patriotism.

They are listening to—in some case meeting—deplorables and finding them kind, decent, and not racist.

A last, and very interesting theme, is after Obama got them engaged, most of these black Democrats started doing research on the internet. They were riveted learning the history of the Democratic Party. They care deeply and viscerally about slavery. What a shock to discover they had been lied to about it all their lives.

President Lincoln was not a Democrat, as they’d been led to think in school. It was not Republicans who were the party of racism, but Democrats. They learned for the first time that Democrats were slave owners. Over and over, they share their surprise at learning the Democrats are the party of Jim Crow and the Ku Klux Klan. Democrats are the party that destroyed the black family. Bill Clinton set off the explosion of black incarceration. They are done permanently as Democrats.

This is a revolutionary change of perspective on the identity of the two parties. It was mentioned in almost every video I watched.

Virtually every video begins with a statement like this one from a GenX woman: “I always followed the crowd. . . . Everybody is supposed to be a Democrat. Black people vote Democrat . . . . We were taught Republicans are all bad, racist, only care about the rich. I fell for that for quite a long time.”

Same words from a young business major: “I never truly chose the Democrat Party. Being the family I’m in, the area I’m in, the color I am. Everyone was Democrat by default . . . I never heard anyone debate any political issue . . . I was on a conveyor belt of ‘next Democrat’ . . . never had any information . . . I didn’t know which side was left (or) right. I was so uninformed, so many people around me uninformed.”

A working guy sounds a similar theme: “Way back when I was a kid, I was taught Republicans were evil white people who didn’t want to share with black people. Black people were Democrats. . . . there was a black party and a white party . . . I voted straight Democrat . . . I finally stopped voting . . . They’re all greedy, just another white man in the White House . . . I forgot all about it to be honest . . . didn’t know who was in office.”

Obama Raised Hopes—and Dashed Them

President Obama got millions of blacks interested in following politics for the first time in a long time. “Hope and change” was not an empty slogan to them. They felt it, deeply, emotionally. Even uninterested, cynical, disengaged people allowed themselves to get invested.

A young vet speaks for many. “I was so happy, I cried. I can’t believe I live in this day and age. I was told this would never happen because white America hates black people. That’s how I was raised . . . I was into him . . . I joined the military ’cause I wanted to serve Barack Obama.”

Another woman expressed what many others also said: “[Obama was] so eloquent, seemed intelligent, real cool . . . thought he’d try to get the inner cities together, get better education for black children. That’s what I assumed. Make things better for black people.”

A Millennial man who first voted in 2012 repeats the typical story. Obama got him interested. “This is going to be historic.” He began to do “binge political researching.”

Obama got these supporters involved, and euphorically hopeful. Then he let them down.

“As soon as he got in office, this dude started going sideways . . . this isn’t what we voted for,” the Millennial says. Obama focused on getting money and votes from greens, gays, feminists, and illegals, and used race-baiting to keep the black vote. They noticed nothing got better.

These are people who did not have the luxury to make excuses for Obama. Many in the black community are enduring real suffering—not the snowflake variety. They were looking for results, not left-wing virtue signaling. Obama broke the spell. Here was the ultimate Democrat who had a shot to come through and improve black lives, and he fired blanks.

Under Obama, says a YouTuber who calls himself “That Black Dude,” “I watched my paycheck decrease from $860 . . . after four more years to 690 bucks every two weeks . . . I can’t survive like this . . . and the news kept telling me that everything was great . . . this was the hope and change, and we have to get used to unemployment.”

“They just make promises and don’t do anything,” says another young black woman, “and our communities . . . education for our children are still jacked up . . . I didn’t see any progress for Americans, for working, everyday average Americans . . . Obama, all these promises he had not made and weren’t being kept.”

“Democrat Party have no plan, no direction, no future, no way of looking at growth . . . growing on hate is not what this country should be, wants to be,” says a man who goes by the handle “NtenseFit Way.”

A thoughtful young man explains his thinking in a video well worth your time:
All [Democrats] want to do is monetize white guilt . . . it’s not really productive, man, because we never address the core issues . . . . [Democrat] policies do not work . . . enough is enough. It is time to break the cycle. Me, I made a decision, man, I can no longer support the Democrat Party. Because they are not the party for black people, they’re not even the party of America. They are such a far-Left socialist party . . . I don’t know who they’re working for—it ain’t us. In every state they run . . . opportunities diminish . . . their policies are failed. . . . I can’t do it anymore. I’m conservative.
Some blame Obama by name. Many do not. But his failure to help, or even try, was their final break with the Democratic Party.

“All you seen since you were a kid and you were black were promises on things they were gonna change, things would become better. All you seen, things have become worse,” says a man who identifies himself as an ex-felon.

He asks and answers: “Who’s responsible, who’s running this system? It’s the Democrats. Destroyed the black family. Destroyed the black home . . . . They come every four years and they take take take and they don’t give you shit back. I’m tired of it, tired of the excuses.”

Identity Politics is a Loser 

Hillary Clinton tried to follow in Obama’s footsteps with identity politics. But many black men feel targeted by feminism. Others are appalled by the Democratic Party’s promotion of abortion, which disproportionately targets black communities. Black men and women are furious that illegal aliens seem to receive better treatment from Democrats than American citizens. Intersectionality is failing to unite them with the other privileged grievance groups. These voters realize their interests are not identical or even similar to leftist politics.

Hillary personally was a turn-off and her corruption was appalling. A former Bernie Sanders supporter expresses his disgust, which extended from Clinton to all progressives, eventually including Sanders himself. “The thing that completely opened my eyes like someone threw cold water on you in the middle of the night . . . was the DNC rigging the election,” he says. “Those emails . . . money laundering through the Clinton Foundation . . . the whole shit show . . . The motherf—-r had all the questions to the debate, and she still lost the f—ing debate . . . starting with the election and past two years, male bovine excrement and f—ery coming from liberals.”

The progressive Democratic Party has no positive message for blacks. “Party of victimhood. Party of excuses,” says Hermes Justin Wilson. “Those who see themselves as eternal victims will always stay that way . . . using black people as a stepping stool . . . keeping them low by having them stuck in this mindset.”

And then Donald Trump happened. Trump was not a turn off to them. He is familiar. Trump was known and liked by many blacks because of “The Apprentice.” They are fine with his braggadocio and outsized personality. They admire his success as a businessman. Some know his reputation as a friend of blacks. Some were willing to give him a hearing and a chance.

Even those who did not vote for Trump are open about how much they love him now. President Trump is delivering, big time, on jobs, on crime, on actually improving their daily lives.

Making Patriotism Cool Again

Trump is delivering on another thing a lot of these #Walkaways care about: patriotism and unity.

“We live in the greatest country on earth and I am proud to be an American,” says a well-dressed man who calls himself YG Nyghtstorm. “I am so happy to see so many of my fellow citizens standing against hatred and putting America first.”

Vanessa Rogers says: “I’m proud to say I’m an American. I love my country . . . Trump is doing a fabulous job.”

A Millennial who calls himself Mike Nificent says: “I am all about personal responsibility, individual liberty . . . I believe in the Constitution, I love America. I’m proud, I’m patriotic.”

A gay woman with the handle Bethegoldenera Ray explains: “I’m realizing conservative is not bad. It’s American values. I want free speech. I want the right to bear arms . . . .The only thing I heard the right say is get up, make something of yourself, this is America . . . why would people want socialism in this country? As a gay, black woman who is all about equality, I cannot believe the (Democrat) party I once believed in is so anti-American.”

The media crusade against President Trump leaves them cold. “A lot of black people like ,” says a closet Trump supporter. Rappers talk about him all the time. . . . Let’s give the guy a try . . . Once I started researching things, watching his speech and how they reported it. It really is fake news. . . . Resist? What are you resisting? He’s president.”

From a well-educated, mature man: “Convince people through evidence and facts why your point of view is superior than your opponents and why your direction of the country is better. To say Donald Trump is going to destroy America while you’re destroying America is an oxymoron, it’s hypocritical . . . You need to get control of your emotions, brother . . . if you want to convince me, show me through your policies.”

They are listening to Republicans, they’re meeting them at work. They like them and realize they have shared values. They are finding out for themselves that Republicans are not racist. These black voters have Republican values on abortion, marriage, hard work, creating opportunities for people to make something of themselves, and loving America.

A college grad says: “I like that people on the right are way more open for conversation, for dialogue . . . examples, details, facts . . . being consistent . . . people on the right are way better at that.”

He concludes: “I’m about unity. I want this country to get better. I want race relations to get better. I want America to keep building and get stronger . . . we can barely make jobs for people. . .. I’m walking away from bad policies . . . corruption . . . Drain the swamp.”

If these were the opinions of a small group of mavericks, it would be interesting. If the poll numbers of black voters liking Trump are accurate at only 11 or 14 percent, it will seriously impact the swing states, lowering Democrats chances in 2020. If the numbers actually are 21 or 38 percent, America will never be the same. Democrats tell themselves that black voters turning to Trump is not real and it will go away. It is not going away.

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## RabzonKhan

So far one of the most *crooked* government in US history!






*All of Robert Mueller’s indictments and plea deals in the Russia investigation so far *

*Vox *Andrew Prokop 9/15/2018

With Paul Manafort’s new plea deal Friday, special counsel Robert Mueller’s team has now indicted or gotten guilty pleas from 32 people and three companies — that we know of.

That group is composed of four former Trump advisers, 26 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, one California man, and one London-based lawyer. Six of these people (including now all four former Trump aides) have pleaded guilty.

If you also count investigations that Mueller originated but then referred elsewhere in the Justice Department, you can add plea deals from two more people to the list.

It’s a sprawling set of allegations, encompassing both election interference charges against overseas Russians, and various other crimes by American Trump advisers.

However, Mueller hasn’t yet alleged any crimes directly connecting the two — that is, alleging that Trump advisers conspired with Russian officials to impact the election. He is continuing to investigate that.

Other reported focuses of Mueller’s investigation — such as potential obstruction of justice by the Trump administration — have also not resulted in any indictments yet.

*The full list of known indictments and plea deals in Mueller’s probe *

*Read More*


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## cloud4000

Nilgiri said:


> https://amgreatness.com/2018/09/14/why-black-voters-are-turning-to-trump/
> 
> Why Black Voters Are Turning to Trump
> 
> By Karin McQuillan
> September 14th, 2018
> amgreatness.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The growing positive attitude of black voters towards President Trump is the wildcard in the coming midterm elections. It is real and it is expanding. Polls are showing anywhere from 20 percent to 36 percent of blacks approve of President Trump. The Democrats even may have lost 11 percent of black women.
> 
> The cracks in the black Democrat bloc voting are one of the most consequential results of Barack Obama’s presidency and the phenomenal effectiveness of President Trump’s pro-business policies. This could be a historic turning point.
> 
> Measurable Progress
> 
> Trump’s economic policies have improved the lives of black Americans, just as he promised they would during the election. Unlike Obama’s media hype, Trump’s progress is as real and as solid as his buildings. Black unemployment continues to fall. Good manufacturing jobs are coming back. Paychecks are rising, too.
> 
> The roots of this political watershed in the black community are more complex than job figures and will last beyond Trump’s tenure. I have been listening for hours to ordinary black Americans on the #Walkaway movement’s YouTube channel. This is a movement of former Democrats explaining why they are leaving their party. While each face, voice, and story is unique and fascinating, there are some striking recurring themes.
> 
> Ironically, the change seems to have started with President Obama’s election.
> 
> President Obama raised the hopes of black Americans to the highest they’ve been since Martin Luther King. The entire country expected he would devote himself to getting blacks better schools, more jobs, higher wages, and safer neighborhoods. Instead, Obama ignored those bread-and-butter needs. His signature initiative was to send Eric Holder to stoke up publicity and fear in the wake of the Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown shootings.
> 
> In the short term, hyping fake white racism and police brutality worked to stanch the bleeding in black turnout in the 2012 election. In the long term, however, Obama’s reliance on racial fear and grievance increased black suffering. He broke people’s hearts and blew up many black voters’ loyalty to the Democrats.
> 
> The #Walkaway videos are remarkably consistent on that score. Obama got them paying attention to party politics for the first time. Next came the emotional roller coaster, as joy turned to disappointment. Obama’s identity politics agenda, now amplified by progressive Democrats, was a cynical ploy and it has become is a total turn off to those now paying attention. These black voters hate illegal immigration. Obama marked the end of their romance with the Democrat Party, not a new beginning.
> 
> Surprised by the Truth
> 
> Few of these ex-Democrats voted for Trump, but they were willing to give Trump a chance after the election. They find Trump Derangement Syndrome ludicrous. In fact, they love what he is doing. They appreciate the jobs he is creating, and they share his patriotism.
> 
> They are listening to—in some case meeting—deplorables and finding them kind, decent, and not racist.
> 
> A last, and very interesting theme, is after Obama got them engaged, most of these black Democrats started doing research on the internet. They were riveted learning the history of the Democratic Party. They care deeply and viscerally about slavery. What a shock to discover they had been lied to about it all their lives.
> 
> President Lincoln was not a Democrat, as they’d been led to think in school. It was not Republicans who were the party of racism, but Democrats. They learned for the first time that Democrats were slave owners. Over and over, they share their surprise at learning the Democrats are the party of Jim Crow and the Ku Klux Klan. Democrats are the party that destroyed the black family. Bill Clinton set off the explosion of black incarceration. They are done permanently as Democrats.
> 
> This is a revolutionary change of perspective on the identity of the two parties. It was mentioned in almost every video I watched.
> 
> Virtually every video begins with a statement like this one from a GenX woman: “I always followed the crowd. . . . Everybody is supposed to be a Democrat. Black people vote Democrat . . . . We were taught Republicans are all bad, racist, only care about the rich. I fell for that for quite a long time.”
> 
> Same words from a young business major: “I never truly chose the Democrat Party. Being the family I’m in, the area I’m in, the color I am. Everyone was Democrat by default . . . I never heard anyone debate any political issue . . . I was on a conveyor belt of ‘next Democrat’ . . . never had any information . . . I didn’t know which side was left (or) right. I was so uninformed, so many people around me uninformed.”
> 
> A working guy sounds a similar theme: “Way back when I was a kid, I was taught Republicans were evil white people who didn’t want to share with black people. Black people were Democrats. . . . there was a black party and a white party . . . I voted straight Democrat . . . I finally stopped voting . . . They’re all greedy, just another white man in the White House . . . I forgot all about it to be honest . . . didn’t know who was in office.”
> 
> Obama Raised Hopes—and Dashed Them
> 
> President Obama got millions of blacks interested in following politics for the first time in a long time. “Hope and change” was not an empty slogan to them. They felt it, deeply, emotionally. Even uninterested, cynical, disengaged people allowed themselves to get invested.
> 
> A young vet speaks for many. “I was so happy, I cried. I can’t believe I live in this day and age. I was told this would never happen because white America hates black people. That’s how I was raised . . . I was into him . . . I joined the military ’cause I wanted to serve Barack Obama.”
> 
> Another woman expressed what many others also said: “[Obama was] so eloquent, seemed intelligent, real cool . . . thought he’d try to get the inner cities together, get better education for black children. That’s what I assumed. Make things better for black people.”
> 
> A Millennial man who first voted in 2012 repeats the typical story. Obama got him interested. “This is going to be historic.” He began to do “binge political researching.”
> 
> Obama got these supporters involved, and euphorically hopeful. Then he let them down.
> 
> “As soon as he got in office, this dude started going sideways . . . this isn’t what we voted for,” the Millennial says. Obama focused on getting money and votes from greens, gays, feminists, and illegals, and used race-baiting to keep the black vote. They noticed nothing got better.
> 
> These are people who did not have the luxury to make excuses for Obama. Many in the black community are enduring real suffering—not the snowflake variety. They were looking for results, not left-wing virtue signaling. Obama broke the spell. Here was the ultimate Democrat who had a shot to come through and improve black lives, and he fired blanks.
> 
> Under Obama, says a YouTuber who calls himself “That Black Dude,” “I watched my paycheck decrease from $860 . . . after four more years to 690 bucks every two weeks . . . I can’t survive like this . . . and the news kept telling me that everything was great . . . this was the hope and change, and we have to get used to unemployment.”
> 
> “They just make promises and don’t do anything,” says another young black woman, “and our communities . . . education for our children are still jacked up . . . I didn’t see any progress for Americans, for working, everyday average Americans . . . Obama, all these promises he had not made and weren’t being kept.”
> 
> “Democrat Party have no plan, no direction, no future, no way of looking at growth . . . growing on hate is not what this country should be, wants to be,” says a man who goes by the handle “NtenseFit Way.”
> 
> A thoughtful young man explains his thinking in a video well worth your time:
> All [Democrats] want to do is monetize white guilt . . . it’s not really productive, man, because we never address the core issues . . . . [Democrat] policies do not work . . . enough is enough. It is time to break the cycle. Me, I made a decision, man, I can no longer support the Democrat Party. Because they are not the party for black people, they’re not even the party of America. They are such a far-Left socialist party . . . I don’t know who they’re working for—it ain’t us. In every state they run . . . opportunities diminish . . . their policies are failed. . . . I can’t do it anymore. I’m conservative.
> Some blame Obama by name. Many do not. But his failure to help, or even try, was their final break with the Democratic Party.
> 
> “All you seen since you were a kid and you were black were promises on things they were gonna change, things would become better. All you seen, things have become worse,” says a man who identifies himself as an ex-felon.
> 
> He asks and answers: “Who’s responsible, who’s running this system? It’s the Democrats. Destroyed the black family. Destroyed the black home . . . . They come every four years and they take take take and they don’t give you shit back. I’m tired of it, tired of the excuses.”
> 
> Identity Politics is a Loser
> 
> Hillary Clinton tried to follow in Obama’s footsteps with identity politics. But many black men feel targeted by feminism. Others are appalled by the Democratic Party’s promotion of abortion, which disproportionately targets black communities. Black men and women are furious that illegal aliens seem to receive better treatment from Democrats than American citizens. Intersectionality is failing to unite them with the other privileged grievance groups. These voters realize their interests are not identical or even similar to leftist politics.
> 
> Hillary personally was a turn-off and her corruption was appalling. A former Bernie Sanders supporter expresses his disgust, which extended from Clinton to all progressives, eventually including Sanders himself. “The thing that completely opened my eyes like someone threw cold water on you in the middle of the night . . . was the DNC rigging the election,” he says. “Those emails . . . money laundering through the Clinton Foundation . . . the whole shit show . . . The motherf—-r had all the questions to the debate, and she still lost the f—ing debate . . . starting with the election and past two years, male bovine excrement and f—ery coming from liberals.”
> 
> The progressive Democratic Party has no positive message for blacks. “Party of victimhood. Party of excuses,” says Hermes Justin Wilson. “Those who see themselves as eternal victims will always stay that way . . . using black people as a stepping stool . . . keeping them low by having them stuck in this mindset.”
> 
> And then Donald Trump happened. Trump was not a turn off to them. He is familiar. Trump was known and liked by many blacks because of “The Apprentice.” They are fine with his braggadocio and outsized personality. They admire his success as a businessman. Some know his reputation as a friend of blacks. Some were willing to give him a hearing and a chance.
> 
> Even those who did not vote for Trump are open about how much they love him now. President Trump is delivering, big time, on jobs, on crime, on actually improving their daily lives.
> 
> Making Patriotism Cool Again
> 
> Trump is delivering on another thing a lot of these #Walkaways care about: patriotism and unity.
> 
> “We live in the greatest country on earth and I am proud to be an American,” says a well-dressed man who calls himself YG Nyghtstorm. “I am so happy to see so many of my fellow citizens standing against hatred and putting America first.”
> 
> Vanessa Rogers says: “I’m proud to say I’m an American. I love my country . . . Trump is doing a fabulous job.”
> 
> A Millennial who calls himself Mike Nificent says: “I am all about personal responsibility, individual liberty . . . I believe in the Constitution, I love America. I’m proud, I’m patriotic.”
> 
> A gay woman with the handle Bethegoldenera Ray explains: “I’m realizing conservative is not bad. It’s American values. I want free speech. I want the right to bear arms . . . .The only thing I heard the right say is get up, make something of yourself, this is America . . . why would people want socialism in this country? As a gay, black woman who is all about equality, I cannot believe the (Democrat) party I once believed in is so anti-American.”
> 
> The media crusade against President Trump leaves them cold. “A lot of black people like ,” says a closet Trump supporter. Rappers talk about him all the time. . . . Let’s give the guy a try . . . Once I started researching things, watching his speech and how they reported it. It really is fake news. . . . Resist? What are you resisting? He’s president.”
> 
> From a well-educated, mature man: “Convince people through evidence and facts why your point of view is superior than your opponents and why your direction of the country is better. To say Donald Trump is going to destroy America while you’re destroying America is an oxymoron, it’s hypocritical . . . You need to get control of your emotions, brother . . . if you want to convince me, show me through your policies.”
> 
> They are listening to Republicans, they’re meeting them at work. They like them and realize they have shared values. They are finding out for themselves that Republicans are not racist. These black voters have Republican values on abortion, marriage, hard work, creating opportunities for people to make something of themselves, and loving America.
> 
> A college grad says: “I like that people on the right are way more open for conversation, for dialogue . . . examples, details, facts . . . being consistent . . . people on the right are way better at that.”
> 
> He concludes: “I’m about unity. I want this country to get better. I want race relations to get better. I want America to keep building and get stronger . . . we can barely make jobs for people. . .. I’m walking away from bad policies . . . corruption . . . Drain the swamp.”
> 
> If these were the opinions of a small group of mavericks, it would be interesting. If the poll numbers of black voters liking Trump are accurate at only 11 or 14 percent, it will seriously impact the swing states, lowering Democrats chances in 2020. If the numbers actually are 21 or 38 percent, America will never be the same. Democrats tell themselves that black voters turning to Trump is not real and it will go away. It is not going away.



It's surprising the number of non-white people who voted for Trump. My father is one of them. Not because he likes Trump, but because he hates Democrats and Hillary Clinton. I always thought Democrats were arrogant when it came to treating minorities, thinking their support is automatic when it's not. Sometimes I think Democrats have a plantation mentality when it comes to minorities.

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## Nilgiri

cloud4000 said:


> It's surprising the number of non-white people who voted for Trump. My father is one of them. Not because he likes Trump, but because he hates Democrats and Hillary Clinton. I always thought Democrats were arrogant when it came to treating minorities, thinking their support is automatic when it's not. Sometimes I think Democrats have a plantation mentality when it comes to minorities.



Democrat leadership always have kept a certain attitude deep down regarding minorities needing to be "managed" rather than truly integrated (by allowing a proper dynamic debate of free will versus responsibility....individuality versus collective morality take root across the population....free of intersectionality and identity politics)....i.e deferring to people's potential to become better and you serve them....rather than you charge to take the lead to control how they shape up because you have no inherent trust in them.

This comes from their KKK origins if you really dig back, they have just re-arranged the optics around by switching from outright oppression on the old plantation to being the new saviours on the new plantations and more subtle, nuanced suppression of true breakout of any minority group + blue collar....to fit the way the societal currents have changed. But the underlying goal is the same: political control by promoting authoritarian groupthink and dependency (on big govt i.e them).

The response of the republicans over time to this strategy of the dems has also been quite a lengthy subject. In summary I would say Trump is result of decades of frustration at no GOP figure giving it back to the dems in the same token that the dems have been running with in the national discourse against "Middle America" norms....and adding to it the larger takeover by their far leftist agents in the media (MSM), culture (hollyweird) and academia (pretty much every university esp the paper degree programs that lead to nowhere except finalise and embolden the propaganda in young adult age group as the natural conclusion of the earlier public school indoctrination....oh and saddle them with debt so you can promise optics as needed to "relieve and liberate" them later ala Bernie by more big govt elsewhere)....esp ever since two key events: Vietnam war (where the massive anti-national thought first came about in a large way among the left leaning intelligentsia) and the USSR breaking up (affording the complacency that could create more identity politics given there was no looming threat anymore).

The largest egregious recent examples are for example how John McCain took all the claims he was racist etc on the chin (in 08) instead of retaliating like an honest non democrat (instead of democrat trojan horse which he turned out to be) character would ..... and how Joe Biden loudly proclaimed Mitt Romney would put black people back in chains etc etc....not to mention Harry Reid literally admitting that the tax evasion stunt on Romney was fake from the get go but "served its purpose".

The "deplorables" are done playing "nice" when they are continually told they are the root of all evil that exists not only in the US but the whole world. Silly gimmicks by the political establishment and its paid and controlled media only further embolden this. I find it interesting they have seen in Trump something so anti-thetical to their very existence that they have gone all in with this russian collusion narrative....I figure they think they have gamed the system to the degree needed where they can gamble high stakes like this....but Trump is still here, and they seem to not realise Trump may just be the start of things to come if they continue to be brittle on power lust rather than actually reform their attitude to create something more sustainable (i.e serve the people rather than other way around).

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> but Trump is still here, and they seem to not realise Trump may just be the start of things to come if they continue to be brittle on power lust rather than actually reform their attitude to create something more sustainable




That is why the coming mid-terms are all important.


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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> That is why the coming mid-terms are all important.



In more ways than one actually. If dems do take back the house and proceed with impeachment (which will be quashed in the senate for sure)...that will do something quite interesting to the trump + independent voter base in 2020....(esp if the much more clear cut case + results against Bill Clinton perjury impeachment + trial is anything to go by).

If dems don't take back the house, that is also very interesting....as to where they proceed from there w.r.t 2020 candidate (i.e will they bite the bullet and choose someone far left or play safer?).

If dems take back the house but do not proceed with impeachment is another thing to analyse w.r.t what that would do ceterus paribus to their turnout in 2020.

The X-factor is the late turnout of undecideds that are not captured in the polling that was a huge factor in Trump beating the poll odds in 2016. That will need many more cycles of data to happen before polling can capture that factor somewhat better, if that helps at all even.

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## cloud4000

Nilgiri said:


> In more ways than one actually. If dems do take back the house and proceed with impeachment (which will be quashed in the senate for sure)...that will do something quite interesting to the trump + independent voter base in 2020....(esp if the much more clear cut case + results against Bill Clinton perjury impeachment + trial is anything to go by).
> 
> If dems don't take back the house, that is also very interesting....as to where they proceed from there w.r.t 2020 candidate (i.e will they bite the bullet and choose someone far left or play safer?).
> 
> If dems take back the house but do not proceed with impeachment is another thing to analyse w.r.t what that would do ceterus paribus to their turnout in 2020.
> 
> The X-factor is the late turnout of undecideds that are not captured in the polling that was a huge factor in Trump beating the poll odds in 2016. That will need many more cycles of data to happen before polling can capture that factor somewhat better, if that helps at all even.



If Democrats are so focused about impeaching Trump -- and impeaching him only -- they will fail to pay attention what will happen to them in 2020. Even if Trump is gone, Pence is still there. And if Democrats nominate some socialist, Bernie Sanders type as POTUS candidate, all bets are off.

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## Nilgiri

cloud4000 said:


> If Democrats are so focused about impeaching Trump -- and impeaching him only -- they will fail to pay attention what will happen to them in 2020. Even if Trump is gone, Pence is still there. And if Democrats nominate some socialist, Bernie Sanders type as POTUS candidate, all bets are off.



There was a recent FISA application declassification by Trump too now (which at this point looks like it will clear a lot of fuzziness about what exactly was used as the raison d'etre to spy on Trump campaign by the Obama admin). Notable dems are livid about it, and Adam Schiff is likely to come of as a complete liar too (given he was one of those that had read these already yet dismissed their relevance in the narrative he was trying to form).

Combined with the recent testimony under oath by Lisa Page (that there was no evidence of collusion when the mueller special consul was formed)....there is much danger in the Democrat strategy to go all in with this narrative....that too with the midterms coming up.

I have a hunch Trump consulted a few ppl as to when was the best time to declassify this stuff....and give the dems and media their own self-created position of taking the quite ludicrous stance that info should not be released to the US public to look for themselves as much as possible!...and at an opportune politically sensitive moment like the midterms too.

If so, well played by Trump on this...but lets see how this goes. Kavanaugh stuff is really hogging most of the discussion right now.


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## RabzonKhan

Unbelievable, the most hilarious news of the mid-term elections!

In a generic poll conducted by Public opinion Strategies for the Republican National committee, Nancy Pelosi beats Trump by five points. 


*Republican poll shows Nancy Pelosi more popular than President Trump




*
In a generic poll conducted by Public Opinion Strategies for the Republican National Committee, Americans were more likely to say they would support a candidate backed by Nancy Pelosi (50%) than a candidate backed by Donald Trump (45%), according to Bloomberg, which obtained a copy of the poll.

The big picture: Pelosi, who would likely become House Speaker if Democrats take control of the House in November, has become a polarizing figure, even within the Democratic party. Republicans have made her a primary target in their midterm campaigns, and Trump's tweet tirades are often directed toward her. The poll also found that criticizing Pelosi — and Hillary Clinton — often works in riling up the GOP base, and could help the GOP win over some independent women and Hispanic men, per Bloomberg. *Source*






Nilgiri said:


> https://amgreatness.com/2018/09/14/why-black-voters-are-turning-to-trump/
> 
> Why Black Voters Are Turning to Trump
> 
> 
> The growing positive attitude of black voters towards President Trump is the wildcard in the coming midterm elections. It is real and it is expanding. Polls are showing anywhere from 20 percent to 36 percent of blacks approve of President Trump. The Democrats even may have lost 11 percent of black women.


Now imagine, if there was a poll that shows 36% former Trump supporters, mostly middle-age whites without college degree have overnight become pro-Democrats, how many Trump supporters would believe that poll, most probably none, and as usual, they would’ve called it fake news, fake polls, and what not, but now they are cheering clearly an outlier poll. Notice, I’m not calling it a fake poll, but an outlier, which clearly it is, because no other polls even come close to the so-called 36% Blacks approve of Trump joke.

But to be fair, since Trump was elected he has increased his support among Blacks. In 2016 election he got 8% black vote, now most mainstream polls show that his support is hovering at around 12%, (his disapproval rating has averaged 84%.) but of course, not damn 36%.





> Measurable Progress
> 
> Trump’s economic policies have improved the lives of black Americans, just as he promised they would during the election. Unlike Obama’s media hype, Trump’s progress is as real and as solid as his buildings. Black unemployment continues to fall. Good manufacturing jobs are coming back. Paychecks are rising, too.
> 
> The roots of this political watershed in the black community are more complex than job figures and will last beyond Trump’s tenure. I have been listening for hours to ordinary black Americans on the #Walkaway movement’s YouTube channel. This is a movement of former Democrats explaining why they are leaving their party. While each face, voice, and story is unique and fascinating, there are some striking recurring themes.
> 
> Ironically, the change seems to have started with President Obama’s election.
> 
> President Obama raised the hopes of black Americans to the highest they’ve been since Martin Luther King. The entire country expected he would devote himself to getting blacks better schools, more jobs, higher wages, and safer neighborhoods. Instead, Obama ignored those bread-and-butter needs. His signature initiative was to send Eric Holder to stoke up publicity and fear in the wake of the Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown shootings.
> 
> In the short term, hyping fake white racism and police brutality worked to stanch the bleeding in black turnout in the 2012 election. In the long term, however, Obama’s reliance on racial fear and grievance increased black suffering. He broke people’s hearts and blew up many black voters’ loyalty to the Democrats.


Oh my goodness, Obama is soooooo bad, “he broke people’s hearts and blew up many black voters loyalty to the Democrats.”  Really, looks like the author has been reading fantasy novels let’s look at some facts:

In 2008, 95% Blacks voted for Obama and 93% in 2012 presidential elections. Now the 2% drop in Pres Obama’s second term is considered normal as most of the Presidents normally get less vote in their second terms.

http://www.pewresearch.org/2008/11/05/inside-obamas-sweeping-victory/

https://www.statista.com/statistics...xit-polls-of-the-2012-elections-by-ethnicity/

So, there you have it folks, the author is daydreaming and is full of hot air!

The fact is, percentagewise, majority of Blacks are still the most loyal supporters of the Democrat party.

I’m not going to waste my time responding to the rest of the nonsense.


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## RabzonKhan

*When We All Vote*






Michelle Obama gave an excellent speech at “When We All Vote” rally in Las Vegas. She warned people who might be frustrated by the current political climate that democracy continues with or without you. Believe me, “I am frustrated too. I am sick of all the chaos and the nastiness of our politics. It’s exhausting, and, frankly, it’s depressing. I understand wanting to shut it all out.”

“When you don’t vote, you’re letting other people make decisions for you,” she said. “We get the leaders we vote for. We get the policies we vote for. And when we don’t vote, that’s when we wind up with government of, by and for other people.”

In short, her message was, don’t stay home on election day, get out and vote, let’s stop Trump dangerous agenda.


----------



## RabzonKhan

Great news for Democrats, Fox News poll shows that the Democrats are on the path of winning the midterm elections:

Majority of Americans now support Obama care.

Trump’s massive tax cuts is not appealing to the Majority of Americans.

Majority of Americans reject Trump’s racist wall.

These are the three main issues that Trump and the Republicans thought they could win midterms and the 2020 Presidential election.

Poor Trump and his supporters they can’t even call it fake polls, since Fox News is their favorite. Trump is addicted to Fox News and often starts his day by appearing at his favorite show, Fox and Friends, the show normally has four hosts, two boot licking idiots and two beauties without brains.

Hands down, one of the most stupid programs of all time.








*Fox News Poll: Health care boosts Democrats in upcoming midterm elections
*
There is a deluge of bad news for Republicans in the latest Fox News poll.

Most voters are unhappy with the direction the country is taking. Majorities disagree with President Trump on the border wall, and extra tax-cut cash is nowhere to be seen. And, by a wide margin, Democrats are considered the party that would better handle health care -- at a time when most prioritize health care in deciding their vote for Congress. 

With only 44 days until Election Day, maybe the thing that passes for good news for the GOP is that Democrats lead by only seven points in the generic congressional ballot among likely voters. That suggests the battle for control of the House of Representatives could still go either way.








The poll, released Sunday, shows how much Americans have warmed to Obamacare. Four years ago, 48 percent thought the law “went too far” (September 2014). That’s down to 36 percent today. And a majority believes Obamacare is “about right” (21 percent) or “didn’t go far enough” (30 percent).

Plus, 64 percent want more people insured, even if it costs the government more money.

Republican campaigning on the new tax law will have limited appeal, as 6 voters in 10 aren’t seeing additional money in their paycheck since Trump signed the law, and only 32 percent think the law has helped the economy.

Voters also disagree with the president on building a U.S.-Mexico border wall (more oppose by 12 points) and increasing tariffs (more say they will hurt than help the economy by 6 points).












*Read more*


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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> In short, her message was, don’t stay home on election day, get out and vote, let’s stop Trump dangerous agenda.



You know who stayed home during 2016 election and handed the election to Trump? It was Bernie Sanders supporters and progressives. I foresee a Democratic-controlled House, at least. What will be interesting to see how the "justice democrats" and "corporate democrats" will treat each other. I know the GOP is simply going to circle the wagon against Democrats.



RabzonKhan said:


> Majority of Americans now support Obama care.
> 
> Trump’s massive tax cuts is not appealing to the Majority of Americans.
> 
> Majority of Americans reject Trump’s racist wall.



National healthcare is coming -- some form of it. I don't think we'll be seeing the Medicare for all scheme that Bernie Sanders is talking about, but something that will cover everybody. 

People don't like tax cuts because no one is benefiting from them except corporations and, at the same time, ballooning the deficit. I don't mind tax cuts per se, but they should be coupled with spending decreases and Trump is spending even more. I don't know why people continue to believe Republicans like to cut spending. They just like to cut taxes.

The wall was always a stupid idea and will continue to be a stupid idea. But I'm afraid Democrats will compromise on this if they want some other program -- like healthcare. 

All I know is 2019 is going to be interesting from a legislative point of view. There's even the possibility of impeachment.

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## RabzonKhan

Update on the midterm election. On November 6, voters will be electing 36 state governors, all 435 member of the House of Representatives and 35 senators. Mid-term election are normally considered as a referendum on the president and since Trump’s approval rating is the low, hovering around 40%, there is a very good chance Democrats can win back the House, win more governor races and even win back the Senate.

Most polls are showing that the Democrats have far better odds in winning back the House. At present (the 115th United States Congress) Democrats and 193, Republicans 235 and there are 7 vacancies.

According to the Cook political report, out of the 435 seats Democrats have 182 and Republican 147 solid seats.

Likely/Lean seats: Democrats have 10 and Republicans 51. Likely means, these seats are not considered competitive at this point but have the potential to become engaged. Lean means, these are considered competitive races, but one party has an advantage.

Toss-up or worse: Democrats have 3 and Republicans 42 seats.

Democrats need 23 seats to win the house, they have a clear advantage in the House race, they are focusing on Republican toss-up seats to turn them from red to blue, and they have plenty to choose from.


Republican Dana Rohrabacher VS Democrat Harley Rouda CA-48

This is one of the House races I am closely watching, I will love to see Harley Rouda wins this important race. Dana Rohrabacher is a disgrace he is so pro-Russian that he is called Putin’s favorite congressman.


Meet Harley Rouda:

One of his hard-hitting ads:





*About Harley Rouda*

I’m a businessman, husband, father, and a patriot – not a politician. I love this country, and I’m running for Congress because Washington politicians have failed us for too long.

I’ve spent my career working to grow businesses large and small – helping create and support thousands of jobs. We helped our workers get ahead. Hard work, honesty, fairness and respect. Those values drove us everyday.

My wife Kaira and I have worked hard to raise our four children. We’re involved in our community and Orange County charities that help the homeless; protect victims of domestic violence; support veterans, reduce gun violence, advance educational opportunities, strengthen human rights and protect our environment.

But in Washington, too many politicians only care about themselves and their special interest campaign contributors. That’s why they’ve done nothing to reduce the cost of health care and prescription drugs, fix our crumbling roads and bridges, or make college more affordable.

I’m refusing to take any money from corporate PACs – because I will only answer to you, not drug companies, the gun lobby, or Wall Street bankers.

In Congress, I’ll use common sense to find common ground. We can make health care more affordable. We can invest in schools and career training. And we can protect Social Security and Medicare. It all starts by putting country ahead of party, and people ahead of special interests.

I respectfully ask for your vote to change Washington, and make Congress work for America and Orange County.






Rouda with his family.



cloud4000 said:


> You know who stayed home during 2016 election and handed the election to Trump? It was Bernie Sanders supporters and progressives. I foresee a Democratic-controlled House, at least. What will be interesting to see how the "justice democrats" and "corporate democrats" will treat each other. I know the GOP is simply going to circle the wagon against Democrats.


I agree, one can argue how much role they played, but there is no doubt they played a negative role in Hillary’s defeat, and the worse was some of them even voted for Trump. I don’t see progressives as “justice Democrats”, I think majority of them are socialist, I’m not a socialist but I do agree with some of their proposals.




> National healthcare is coming -- some form of it. I don't think we'll be seeing the Medicare for all scheme that Bernie Sanders is talking about, but something that will cover everybody.


I support national healthcare, if are Canadian and European friends can have it, why can’t we, but I think rather than coming up with something new, we should try to improve Obama care.




> People don't like tax cuts because no one is benefiting from them except corporations and, at the same time, ballooning the deficit. I don't mind tax cuts per se, but they should be coupled with spending decreases and Trump is spending even more. I don't know why people continue to believe Republicans like to cut spending. They just like to cut taxes.


The tax cut was unnecessary, most governments increase spending and cut taxes during a recession, we were not in recession when Trump took over, but we were in heavy debt and that should have been the administration’s focus. But as you rightly pointed out Trump administration has cut taxes and increased spending putting more pressure on our debt, that’s called recipe for disaster.

The tax cut has become a liability for the Republicans, most of their candidates are not even mentioning tax-cuts in their campaigns, it’s the Democrats who are running negative ads on the tax cuts scam.




> The wall was always a stupid idea and will continue to be a stupid idea. But I'm afraid Democrats will compromise on this if they want some other program -- like healthcare.
> 
> All I know is 2019 is going to be interesting from a legislative point of view. There's even the possibility of impeachment.


I hope Democrats do not impeach him for the sake of impeachment, because I think that will be a huge mistake on their part. Anyhow, interesting times ahead.

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## RabzonKhan

Bombshell news from New York Times.

Democrats have promised that if they win the House in midterm elections they will force Trump to disclose his tax returns. In the last two years the Democrats have tried almost 11 times in the House of Representatives to require that IRS hand over Trump tax returns, but since they do not have a majority in the House they have not been successful. I’m confident after the midterm we will find out what Trump was trying to hide, it’s just a matter of time.









* Trump Engaged in Suspect Tax Schemes as He Reaped Riches From His Father *

By DAVID BARSTOW, SUSANNE CRAIG and RUSS BUETTNER 
40 mins ago


President Trump participated in dubious tax schemes during the 1990s, including instances of outright fraud, that greatly increased the fortune he received from his parents, an investigation by The New York Times has found.
Mr. Trump won the presidency proclaiming himself a self-made billionaire, and he has long insisted that his father, the legendary New York City builder Fred C. Trump, provided almost no financial help.

But The Times’s investigation, based on a vast trove of confidential tax returns and financial records, reveals that Mr. Trump received the equivalent today of at least $413 million from his father’s real estate empire, starting when he was a toddler and continuing to this day.

Much of this money came to Mr. Trump because he helped his parents dodge taxes. He and his siblings set up a sham corporation to disguise millions of dollars in gifts from their parents, records and interviews show. Records indicate that Mr. Trump helped his father take improper tax deductions worth millions more. He also helped formulate a strategy to undervalue his parents’ real estate holdings by hundreds of millions of dollars on tax returns, sharply reducing the tax bill when those properties were transferred to him and his siblings.

These maneuvers met with little resistance from the Internal Revenue Service, The Times found. The president’s parents, Fred and Mary Trump, transferred well over $1 billion in wealth to their children, which could have produced a tax bill of at least $550 million under the 55 percent tax rate then imposed on gifts and inheritances.

The Trumps paid a total of $52.2 million, or about 5 percent, tax records show.

The president declined repeated requests over several weeks to comment for this article. But a lawyer for Mr. Trump, Charles J. Harder, provided a written statement on Monday, one day after The Times sent a detailed description of its findings. “The New York Times’s allegations of fraud and tax evasion are 100 percent false, and highly defamatory,” Mr. Harder said. “There was no fraud or tax evasion by anyone. The facts upon which The Times bases its false allegations are extremely inaccurate.”

Mr. Harder sought to distance Mr. Trump from the tax strategies used by his family, saying the president had delegated those tasks to relatives and tax professionals. “President Trump had virtually no involvement whatsoever with these matters,” he said. “The affairs were handled by other Trump family members who were not experts themselves and therefore relied entirely upon the aforementioned licensed professionals to ensure full compliance with the law.”

The president’s brother, Robert Trump, issued a statement on behalf of the Trump family:

“Our dear father, Fred C. Trump, passed away in June 1999. Our beloved mother, Mary Anne Trump, passed away in August 2000. All appropriate gift and estate tax returns were filed, and the required taxes were paid. Our father’s estate was closed in 2001 by both the Internal Revenue Service and the New York State tax authorities, and our mother’s estate was closed in 2004. Our family has no other comment on these matters that happened some 20 years ago, and would appreciate your respecting the privacy of our deceased parents, may God rest their souls.”

The Times’s findings raise new questions about Mr. Trump’s refusal to release his income tax returns, breaking with decades of practice by past presidents. According to tax experts, it is unlikely that Mr. Trump would be vulnerable to criminal prosecution for helping his parents evade taxes, because the acts happened too long ago and are past the statute of limitations. There is no time limit, however, on civil fines for tax fraud.

The findings are based on interviews with Fred Trump’s former employees and advisers and more than 100,000 pages of documents describing the inner workings and immense profitability of his empire. They include documents culled from public sources — mortgages and deeds, probate records, financial disclosure reports, regulatory records and civil court files.

The investigation also draws on tens of thousands of pages of confidential records — bank statements, financial audits, accounting ledgers, cash disbursement reports, invoices and canceled checks. Most notably, the documents include more than 200 tax returns from Fred Trump, his companies and various Trump partnerships and trusts. While the records do not include the president’s personal tax returns and reveal little about his recent business dealings at home and abroad, dozens of corporate, partnership and trust tax returns offer the first public accounting of the income he received for decades from various family enterprises.

*Read more*

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## RabzonKhan

Senate election 2018

The current Senate has 51 Republican and 49 Democrats and therefore Democrats would need to flip at least two seats to take back the Senate, but unfortunately that’s not going to be easy since Democrats have to defend 26 seats and the Republican only 9 in this year’s midterm elections. On top of that 10 Democrats are running for re-election in states that Trump decisively won in the 2016 presidential election. In the coming days I’ll be posting polls from some of the most important races.






Mandel Ngan/AFP/Getty Images French President Emmanuel Macron, left, stands next to Former New York mayor Michael R. Bloomberg on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in New York on Sept. 26.


*
Michael Bloomberg jolts Senate battle with $20 million for Democrats
*
*Robert Costa 22 hrs ago*

*Michael R. Bloomberg, the billionaire former mayor of New York City who is considering a 2020 presidential campaign, will give $20 million to the main Democratic Senate super PAC this week — jolting the national battle for control of the chamber just five weeks away from the midterm elections.*

Bloomberg’s intervention bolsters the Democrats’ Senate chances by infusing significant late-season capital into the Senate Majority PAC, a group that had $29 million on hand at the end of August and has been purchasing advertising in expensive media markets.

Bloomberg — a former Republican and declared political independent — says the emotional national debate over sexual assault allegations against President Trump’s Supreme Court nominee Brett M. Kavanaugh has energized Democratic voters and provides an opening for the party to be more competitive in rallying women and swing voters, his advisers said Tuesday, adding that he sees last week’s contentious hearings as a tipping point.

“Mike was extraordinarily disappointed in the Republican leadership in the Senate and feels increasingly passionate about changing it,” Bloomberg adviser Kevin Sheekey said. “And he’s already enthusiastic about the impact he’s having on House races and increasingly confident that he can contribute to a Democratic takeover.”

*The enormous sum brings Bloomberg — who has already pledged to spend $80 million to support Democratic congressional candidates — up to $100 million in spending commitments for the 2018 election cycle, firmly positioning himself in the Democratic camp as he contemplates a bid for the White House*. *Read more*

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## Nilgiri

You know just how far demonrat scum (and MSM mouthpieces) have gone into the dirt/swamp sludge when Never trumper Ben Shapiro has this to say:






That polling analysis in the middle


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## Gomig-21

It's a true sham that the incompetent, sexually abusing and stone-cold drunken puke of a Kavanaugh is most likely getting confirmed into the highest court of our land. But that's ok, he'll be remembered worst than that other scum sucking hog Clearance Thomas who till this day is associated with nothing but his disturbing, sexual connotations and behavior towards Anita Hill. I was a witness to that shameful part of history and watched those hearings live back then and at least that lowlife Thomas showed restraint and the temperament of someone who could hold the highest court position in our land despite the disturbing things he did. But this guy, here? This was the most despicable exhibition of a poor character with the lowest form public skills (and this guy is a judge vying for a position on the United State Supreme Court!?!?!?!?!?!?!) who showed an angry disposition that despite it being ok to show, it came out in the worst way and if there is any reason he should NEVER sit on that seat, is solely on his temperament as a human being and his inability to show restraint and professionalism.. The latter part is what has dropped off the face of the earth in these characters that hold all political positions, starting from the clown in the highest position who is in fact, destroying this country slowly but surely.

Of course Dr. Christine Blasey Ford was attacked by that POS! And to be mocked at, laughed at and treated with such indignity by the clown in chief and all his minions at that rally (and how about the mothers in that rally that were clapping...what character claps at that? I wonder how many of them would be ok with their daughters or sisters or mothers getting jumped by a drunk like this guy?) is nothing short of despicable and a sign of how low the Republican party and the extreme right loony bins have gone. Can't wait till this idiot is out of office and we can have our country's leadership back with the dignity it deserves.

And the even more disturbing part is how this guy is being confirmed strictly on partisan reasons and not a single consideration for the things that really matter! God Bless Lisa Murkowski, the ONLY republican with the decency and wherewithal to vote no on this incompetent POS. And shame on Susan Collins and Jeff Flake who after all he went through in the elevator and recommending this joke of an FBI "limited investigation" and the entire rest of the Rep. party. No guts whatsoever and all they care about is their decrepit, shrink-laden asses sitting on their seats. I hope they all get voted out because of this.

What's the matter, they couldn't find another judge out of all the federal judges in this country instead of this scumbag?!?! Was it so necessary to push this POS through for all the wrong reasons? Amazing.

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## Nilgiri

Gomig-21 said:


> It's a true sham that the incompetent, sexually abusing and stone-cold drunken puke of a Kavanaugh is most likely getting confirmed into the highest court of our land. But that's ok, he'll be remembered worst than that other scum sucking hog Clearance Thomas who till this day is associated with nothing but his disturbing, sexual connotations and behavior towards Anita Hill. I was a witness to that shameful part of history and watched those hearings live back then and at least that lowlife Thomas showed restraint and the temperament of someone who could hold the highest court position in our land despite the disturbing things he did. But this guy, here? This was the most despicable exhibition of a poor character with the lowest form public skills (and this guy is a judge vying for a position on the United State Supreme Court!?!?!?!?!?!?!) who showed an angry disposition that despite it being ok to show, it came out in the worst way and if there is any reason he should NEVER sit on that seat, is solely on his temperament as a human being and his inability to show restraint and professionalism.. The latter part is what has dropped off the face of the earth in these characters that hold all political positions, starting from the clown in the highest position who is in fact, destroying this country slowly but surely.
> 
> Of course Dr. Christine Blasey Ford was attacked by that POS! And to be mocked at, laughed at and treated with such indignity by the clown in chief and all his minions at that rally (and how about the mothers in that rally that were clapping...what character claps at that? I wonder how many of them would be ok with their daughters or sisters or mothers getting jumped by a drunk like this guy?) is nothing short of despicable and a sign of how low the Republican party and the extreme right loony bins have gone. Can't wait till this idiot is out of office and we can have our country's leadership back with the dignity it deserves.
> 
> And the even more disturbing part is how this guy is being confirmed strictly on partisan reasons and not a single consideration for the things that really matter! God Bless Lisa Murkowski, the ONLY republican with the decency and wherewithal to vote no on this incompetent POS. And shame on Susan Collins and Jeff Flake who after all he went through in the elevator and recommending this joke of an FBI "limited investigation" and the entire rest of the Rep. party. No guts whatsoever and all they care about is their decrepit, shrink-laden asses sitting on their seats. I hope they all get voted out because of this.
> 
> What's the matter, they couldn't find another judge out of all the federal judges in this country instead of this scumbag?!?! Was it so necessary to push this POS through for all the wrong reasons? Amazing.



Your tears are delicious!

Bless Joe Manchin for being the only sane democrat that understands fundamentally why due process + presumption of innocence is important . (See how that works both ways?)

Bless Lindsey Graham for showing the demoscum hypocrisy to their faces too...he has manned up big time.

Bless Susan Collins for showing how you can believe the credibility of and sympathise with Ford...but still highlighting why conflicting testimony needs evidence/corroboration (and due process and presumption of innocence) and not feelz.

Im enjoying the red wave sentiment now. Triggered demturds (and Ben Shapiro analyses it all quite well...you should watch his recent podcasts if you dare to get any actual non-groupthink/non-CNN perspective at all) are doing what Trump could never do....getting more and more #walkaway ppl to vote GOP alongside never trumper groups (like Bush and McCain republicans) and plenty of independents.

Lastly bless the republicans for again showing exactly how the KKK party (what they should actually be called) has not changed one bit....just filled up their plantations with different slaves nowadays....but the aim is the same....lynching of anyone that gets in their way to absolute power and throwing a racist identity politics type hissy fit when things go awry for them (and their agenda of destroying the USA like the rabid traitors they always were, always are and always will be is exposed).

Demoscum think only feminazi feelz matter...and launched all into it (with all the related intersectionality)....forgetting that majority of women in US have husbands, sons and brothers that they never ever want to see being dragged through the muck and ruined for life...on the basis of accusation only with ZERO due process. Demscum overplayed their weak hand big time....the results of that will come in with time. Its just getting started.

Not to mention w.r.t Ford:

- All 3 witnesses named not only deny her version of events, they outright refute it (her best friend Leeland Kaiser went so far as to say she doesnt even know Brett Kavanaugh).

- Several inconsistencies in her testimony. If it was court of law, she would be pulled up right around now for perjury investigation.

- Lawyers of Ford are in hot water now, for apparently not forwarding the senate commitee offer to hear her testimony privately to give her privacy (as she wanted initially)....and also putting pressure on her to talk to the media and do polygraph. (The detailed supporting material concerning the polygraph and other key material like medical records regarding the "sudden memory" has still not been released by the lawyers....Grassley is following up on it...this should be good).

- Ford lawyers in deep doodoo for not releasing what kind of contact they had with other witnesses, democrat senators and the media beforehand (i.e to see if any undue collaboration) as requested by Senate commitee chairman. This is also being followed up again now. Stay tuned!

- Senate follow up on how the Ford letter got leaked. Feinstink body language was a big tell...hope they catch they demoscum (staffer, media associate or whoever) that did it!

This all plays well in showing exactly which side is the deranged one that wants to destroy the institutions of the USA (set up the way they are for a reason by the founding fathers). For all the demoscum talk of tea party radicals and "far right extremism"....not one Senator ever needed to be escorted by security to and from proceedings (because of far-right/tea party) like they are now with these sick Soros scum protestors....one of whom even doxxed (stupidly if you know what ARP is within the govt server network and why that was the reason killary put her private server into place) the health information of children of GOP senators....and now gets to sing like a canary too hopefully soon.

@Hamartia Antidote @jhungary @KAL-EL @cloud4000 @F-22Raptor


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## Hamartia Antidote

Nilgiri said:


> @Hamartia Antidote @jhungary @KAL-EL @cloud4000 @F-22Raptor



I can't say I've been following this Kavanaugh thing. I thought the issue was when they were in High School they both independently went to some beer party at a house with no parents around and she got groped by a drunken Kavanaugh on a bed or something.


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## cloud4000

Nilgiri said:


> Your tears are delicious!
> 
> Bless Joe Manchin for being the only sane democrat that understands fundamentally why due process + presumption of innocence is important . (See how that works both ways?)
> 
> Bless Lindsey Graham for showing the demoscum hypocrisy to their faces too...he has manned up big time.
> 
> Bless Susan Collins for showing how you can believe the credibility of and sympathise with Ford...but still highlighting why conflicting testimony needs evidence/corroboration (and due process and presumption of innocence) and not feelz.
> 
> Im enjoying the red wave sentiment now. Triggered demturds (and Ben Shapiro analyses it all quite well...you should watch his recent podcasts if you dare to get any actual non-groupthink/non-CNN perspective at all) are doing what Trump could never do....getting more and more #walkaway ppl to vote GOP alongside never trumper groups (like Bush and McCain republicans) and plenty of independents.
> 
> Lastly bless the republicans for again showing exactly how the KKK party (what they should actually be called) has not changed one bit....just filled up their plantations with different slaves nowadays....but the aim is the same....lynching of anyone that gets in their way to absolute power and throwing a racist identity politics type hissy fit when things go awry for them (and their agenda of destroying the USA like the rabid traitors they always were, always are and always will be is exposed).
> 
> Demoscum think only feminazi feelz matter...and launched all into it (with all the related intersectionality)....forgetting that majority of women in US have husbands, sons and brothers that they never ever want to see being dragged through the muck and ruined for life...on the basis of accusation only with ZERO due process. Demscum overplayed their weak hand big time....the results of that will come in with time. Its just getting started.
> 
> Not to mention w.r.t Ford:
> 
> - All 3 witnesses named not only deny her version of events, they outright refute it (her best friend Leeland Kaiser went so far as to say she doesnt even know Brett Kavanaugh).
> 
> - Several inconsistencies in her testimony. If it was court of law, she would be pulled up right around now for perjury investigation.
> 
> - Lawyers of Ford are in hot water now, for apparently not forwarding the senate commitee offer to hear her testimony privately to give her privacy (as she wanted initially)....and also putting pressure on her to talk to the media and do polygraph. (The detailed supporting material concerning the polygraph and other key material like medical records regarding the "sudden memory" has still not been released by the lawyers....Grassley is following up on it...this should be good).
> 
> - Ford lawyers in deep doodoo for not releasing what kind of contact they had with other witnesses, democrat senators and the media beforehand (i.e to see if any undue collaboration) as requested by Senate commitee chairman. This is also being followed up again now. Stay tuned!
> 
> - Senate follow up on how the Ford letter got leaked. Feinstink body language was a big tell...hope they catch they demoscum (staffer, media associate or whoever) that did it!
> 
> This all plays well in showing exactly which side is the deranged one that wants to destroy the institutions of the USA (set up the way they are for a reason by the founding fathers). For all the demoscum talk of tea party radicals and "far right extremism"....not one Senator ever needed to be escorted by security to and from proceedings (because of far-right/tea party) like they are now with these sick Soros scum protestors....one of whom even doxxed (stupidly if you know what ARP is within the govt server network and why that was the reason killary put her private server into place) the health information of children of GOP senators....and now gets to sing like a canary too hopefully soon.
> 
> @Hamartia Antidote @jhungary @KAL-EL @cloud4000 @F-22Raptor



I haven't been too much attention to the Kavanaugh confirmation process, but all these SCOTUS nominations come down to bare-knuckle politics. Democrats know that they don't have the votes, so they resorted to smearing Kavanaugh's character with rape allegation to derail his nomination and they have failed. 

This is what happens when one party controls the White House and both houses of Congress. Democrats did the same when they were in charge so why complain now. Democrats will have their chance one day again. US politics is always cyclical. 

What's disturbing about Kavanaugh's nomination was the automatic assumption of guilt san due process for an alleged rape allegation that happened years ago. This "I believer her" nonsense is quite disturbing in that Kavanaugh was convicted of rape without the right of due process. And why didn't Ford come forward when Kavanaugh was a federal judge? Why now? 

And to add to the hypocrisy, if the roles were reversed and Republicans made the same accusations against a SCOTUS nominated by a Democrat, a different tune would be sung by them. Excuses will be made. Behavior condoned. Complaints about denying the candidate his due process rights. 

The tipping point for me was Bill Clinton. Feminists and women rights advocates looked the other way as one allegation after allegation was made against Clinton because he was politically their guy and supported their positions.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Gomig-21 said:


> IBut that's ok, he'll be remembered worst than that other scum sucking hog Clearance Thomas who till this day is associated with nothing but his disturbing, sexual connotations and behavior towards Anita Hill. I was a witness to that shameful part of history and watched those hearings live back then and at least that lowlife Thomas showed restraint and the temperament



I remember that. That was some pretty messed up stuff with the coke can. He wasn't some young teen either. I guess he was only confirmed because he kept his mouth shut so he didn't make it a million times worse.


----------



## Gomig-21

Nilgiri said:


> Your tears are delicious!
> 
> Bless Joe Manchin for being the only sane democrat that understands fundamentally why due process + presumption of innocence is important . (See how that works both ways?)
> 
> Bless Lindsey Graham for showing the demoscum hypocrisy to their faces too...he has manned up big time.
> 
> Bless Susan Collins for showing how you can believe the credibility of and sympathise with Ford...but still highlighting why conflicting testimony needs evidence/corroboration (and due process and presumption of innocence) and not feelz.
> 
> Im enjoying the red wave sentiment now. Triggered demturds (and Ben Shapiro analyses it all quite well...you should watch his recent podcasts if you dare to get any actual non-groupthink/non-CNN perspective at all) are doing what Trump could never do....getting more and more #walkaway ppl to vote GOP alongside never trumper groups (like Bush and McCain republicans) and plenty of independents.
> 
> Lastly bless the republicans for again showing exactly how the KKK party (what they should actually be called) has not changed one bit....just filled up their plantations with different slaves nowadays....but the aim is the same....lynching of anyone that gets in their way to absolute power and throwing a racist identity politics type hissy fit when things go awry for them (and their agenda of destroying the USA like the rabid traitors they always were, always are and always will be is exposed).
> 
> Demoscum think only feminazi feelz matter...and launched all into it (with all the related intersectionality)....forgetting that majority of women in US have husbands, sons and brothers that they never ever want to see being dragged through the muck and ruined for life...on the basis of accusation only with ZERO due process. Demscum overplayed their weak hand big time....the results of that will come in with time. Its just getting started.
> 
> Not to mention w.r.t Ford:
> 
> - All 3 witnesses named not only deny her version of events, they outright refute it (her best friend Leeland Kaiser went so far as to say she doesnt even know Brett Kavanaugh).
> 
> - Several inconsistencies in her testimony. If it was court of law, she would be pulled up right around now for perjury investigation.
> 
> - Lawyers of Ford are in hot water now, for apparently not forwarding the senate commitee offer to hear her testimony privately to give her privacy (as she wanted initially)....and also putting pressure on her to talk to the media and do polygraph. (The detailed supporting material concerning the polygraph and other key material like medical records regarding the "sudden memory" has still not been released by the lawyers....Grassley is following up on it...this should be good).
> 
> - Ford lawyers in deep doodoo for not releasing what kind of contact they had with other witnesses, democrat senators and the media beforehand (i.e to see if any undue collaboration) as requested by Senate commitee chairman. This is also being followed up again now. Stay tuned!
> 
> - Senate follow up on how the Ford letter got leaked. Feinstink body language was a big tell...hope they catch they demoscum (staffer, media associate or whoever) that did it!
> 
> This all plays well in showing exactly which side is the deranged one that wants to destroy the institutions of the USA (set up the way they are for a reason by the founding fathers). For all the demoscum talk of tea party radicals and "far right extremism"....not one Senator ever needed to be escorted by security to and from proceedings (because of far-right/tea party) like they are now with these sick Soros scum protestors....one of whom even doxxed (stupidly if you know what ARP is within the govt server network and why that was the reason killary put her private server into place) the health information of children of GOP senators....and now gets to sing like a canary too hopefully soon.



This issue goes well beyond partisanship for me, and I'm surprised you don't see that after many of the discussions we've had. I'm hardly interested in the ridiculous display of politicizing such an unfortunate event because this turned into a spectacle from both sides, not just from the demoscums or whatever you want to call them. The gutless Republicans are just as bad. The process is faulty which allowed this circus to happen and when this circus happens with a viciously divided public -- let alone government -- it clearly demonstrates what a dangerously sad state we are in.

If these elected officials can't see what is so plain in front of their eyes and make their decisions solely based on party loyalty when it comes to such an important nomination, then there is no hope. Yes, there is due process, but the essential factor of credibility under the circumstances needs to be accounted for much more than physical proof because this was an appointment for a lifetime position for one of the highest and most important, law-governing seat in the land where not only is your ENTIRE life's record to be taken seriously into consideration, but your character and how you display it is VITAL to you being granted this position, and this guy failed remarkably at that and it's just despicable that none of that was taken into consideration.

There's no need to get into all the silly details of who leaked the letter, or get all excited about some follow-up investigation to find out who it was so you can get your kicks off of some vengeful wish. Who the hell cares about all that frivolous BS? This is about what was presented right in front of all our faces for all of us to see and for anyone who says that proverbial load of crap again that we've all been hearing as the sorriest excuse "I think Dr. Ford's testimony was credible and I think she was assaulted, but I don't think it was Bret Kavanaugh" can literally go to hell. This is not some vengeful 13 year-old girlfriend looking for spiteful satisfaction after 35 years for crying out loud. Or some evil plan concocted by the Democrats to stick it to the president and Republicans. This isn't about CNN or Antifa or the leftist or feminists or mob rules and all that divisive politicization you seem to enjoy promoting. It's about denying the obvious for the sake of holding political power through an extremely politically divided partisanship no matter what, and not even taking an ounce of the shameful, angry character display by this guy who is supposed to be a supreme court justice!? Coming up with some angry conspiracy concoction of a phantom Clinton's revengeful plot against the 2016 elections are you kidding me! lol

I'll tell you one thing for sure: if this was yours or my sister, or mother, or daughter.........and she told this story and went in front of the senate and the ENTIRE COUNTRY AND WORLD to reveal a horrible case of abuse by an individual who was picked by this despicable president of the United States to be the next Supreme Court Justice, I would find it impossible, literally IMPOSSIBLE to question a single ounce of its veracity. If you know any victim of any kind of sexual abuse, you would know that the one thing that is unequivocally certain is who it was that assaulted them and not just that, but almost 100% of the time there aren't any witnesses to the actual assault and the fact that that was needed to prove whether he did it or not is not only pathetic, it's an insult to the victim and none of that was even remotely taken into consideration.

And Lindsey Graham manned up? Is that what it's all about now that just because he voted for a democratic president's nominations without any resistance means he should be treated the same way? Are we serious that this is nothing but quid pro quo now? It's not about the essence and the substance of the nominee's character and qualification and ANY form of dirt in his past? This is the problem and it has all started from the top and every one of these Republicans who voted for this guy are all guilty of this shameful lack of dignity in basing their decision. Every one of them. Funny how we suddenly forget what Mitch McConnell did with Obama's appointee that started this whole form of despicable behavior, because it's all about how badly the Democrats are behaving only, right?

But why should we be surprised, anyway? After all, if they're willing to vote in a guy who was clear-handed in talking about grabbing women's pussies and essentially what this *** did also which is outright groping, why should it be any different? No wonder he picked this guy. Birds of a feather, flock together.



Hamartia Antidote said:


> I remember that. That was some pretty messed up stuff with the coke can. He wasn't some young teen either. I guess he was only confirmed because he kept his mouth shut so he didn't make it a million times worse.



Exactly. Despite being a scumbag, he was smart enough to show discipline and he even displayed the character of a judge in his comments at the end. That went a long way in helping him win the votes he needed. What did we get from this idiot? "I like beer, always liked beer, still like beer, beer, beer, beer" and an angry temperament that showed poor character to boot.  That's just perfect for a supreme court justice, isn't it? It's a shameful disaster what this country's politics is becoming.

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## Nilgiri

Hamartia Antidote said:


> I can't say I've been following this Kavanaugh thing. I thought the issue was when they were in High School they both independently went to some beer party at a house with no parents around and she got groped by a drunken Kavanaugh on a bed or something.



Shapiro has some good analysis of it if you are interested.



Gomig-21 said:


> This issue goes well beyond partisanship for me, and I'm surprised you don't see that after many of the discussions we've had. I'm hardly interested in the ridiculous display of politicizing such an unfortunate event because this turned into a spectacle from both sides, not just from the demoscums or whatever you want to call them. The gutless Republicans are just as bad. The process is faulty which allowed this circus to happen and when this circus happens with a viciously divided public -- let alone government -- it clearly demonstrates what a dangerously sad state we are in.
> 
> If these elected officials can't see what is so plain in front of their eyes and make their decisions solely based on party loyalty when it comes to such an important nomination, then there is no hope. Yes, there is due process, but the essential factor of credibility under the circumstances needs to be accounted for much more than physical proof because this was an appointment for a lifetime position for one of the highest and most important, law-governing seat in the land where not only is your ENTIRE life's record to be taken seriously into consideration, but your character and how you display it is VITAL to you being granted this position, and this guy failed remarkably at that and it's just despicable that none of that was taken into consideration.
> 
> There's no need to get into all the silly details of who leaked the letter, or get all excited about some follow-up investigation to find out who it was so you can get your kicks off of some vengeful wish. Who the hell cares about all that frivolous BS? This is about what was presented right in front of all our faces for all of us to see and for anyone who says that proverbial load of crap again that we've all been hearing as the sorriest excuse "I think Dr. Ford's testimony was credible and I think she was assaulted, but I don't think it was Bret Kavanaugh" can literally go to hell. This is not some vengeful 13 year-old girlfriend looking for spiteful satisfaction after 35 years for crying out loud. Or some evil plan concocted by the Democrats to stick it to the president and Republicans. This isn't about CNN or Antifa or the leftist or feminists or mob rules and all that divisive politicization you seem to enjoy promoting. It's about denying the obvious for the sake of holding political power through an extremely politically divided partisanship no matter what, and not even taking an ounce of the shameful, angry character display by this guy who is supposed to be a supreme court justice!? Coming up with some angry conspiracy concoction of a phantom Clinton's revengeful plot against the 2016 elections are you kidding me! lol
> 
> I'll tell you one thing for sure: if this was yours or my sister, or mother, or daughter.........and she told this story and went in front of the senate and the ENTIRE COUNTRY AND WORLD to reveal a horrible case of abuse by an individual who was picked by this despicable president of the United States to be the next Supreme Court Justice, I would find it impossible, literally IMPOSSIBLE to question a single ounce of its veracity. If you know any victim of any kind of sexual abuse, you would know that the one thing that is unequivocally certain is who it was that assaulted them and not just that, but almost 100% of the time there aren't any witnesses to the actual assault and the fact that that was needed to prove whether he did it or not is not only pathetic, it's an insult to the victim and none of that was even remotely taken into consideration.
> 
> And Lindsey Graham manned up? Is that what it's all about now that just because he voted for a democratic president's nominations without any resistance means he should be treated the same way? Are we serious that this is nothing but quid pro quo now? It's not about the essence and the substance of the nominee's character and qualification and ANY form of dirt in his past? This is the problem and it has all started from the top and every one of these Republicans who voted for this guy are all guilty of this shameful lack of dignity in basing their decision. Every one of them. Funny how we suddenly forget what Mitch McConnell did with Obama's appointee that started this whole form of despicable behavior, because it's all about how badly the Democrats are behaving only, right?
> 
> But why should we be surprised, anyway? After all, if they're willing to vote in a guy who was clear-handed in talking about grabbing women's pussies and essentially what this *** did also which is outright groping, why should it be any different? No wonder he picked this guy. Birds of a feather, flock together.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Despite being a scumbag, he was smart enough to show discipline and he even displayed the character of a judge in his comments at the end. That went a long way in helping him win the votes he needed. What did we get from this idiot? "I like beer, always liked beer, still like beer, beer, beer, beer" and an angry temperament that showed poor character to boot. That's just perfect for a supreme court justice, isn't it? It's a shameful disaster what this country's politics is becoming.



Demoscum can first believe Bill Clinton's accusers first (who have actual credible corroborating evidence in most cases, quite unlike ford) before they open their mouth on anything else. (fair's fair right?....one should put shoe on the other foot). No due process needed, just accusation is enough.

Then when a person gets riled up for his defense, you can say he is not showing judicial temperament...or that hes obviously an angry drunk. If he remains robotic and overly-calm....then he is not capable of emotion and obviously a creep. This is typical witch-hunt tactic (drown the witch to see if she floats)....and has not gone over well at all with the American public.

An apt summary:











(Remember Diaper Diane sat on Ford's letter for 6 whole weeks and did nothing....except leak it)

6 weeks where it increasingly looks like Demonrats were preparing the strategy with Ford lawyers and the media hacks.

They went all in and got rekt. @cloud4000

And BTW, you should ask yourself who's side you would have been on in to kill a mockingbird. Because the KKK-plantationist side was in full effect there too (believe the woman accusation rather than look at the evidence and understand importance of presumption of innocence till then). Tell me would Mayella Ewell have convinced you right off the bat?






You are a nice fella @Gomig-21 , but you will have to go through a never trumper neutral guy like Ben Shapiro first at the very least to have a proper discussion on this topic with me.

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## Nilgiri

Democrats Have Become A Dangerous Threat To Our Institution

Liberals' inability to distinguish between process and partisanship undermines the Constitution.

By David Harsanyi
OCTOBER 8, 2018
thefederalist.com

When modern Democrats talk about preseving “norms,” traditions,” or even the “Constitution,” they’re really talking about preserving their preferred policies. We know this because “liberals” have shown themselves not only willing to destroy the legitimacy of institutions like the presidency, the Senate ,and Supreme Court to protect those policies, they’re willing to break down basic norms of civility, as well.

Take the example of Hillary Clinton. In the very first sentence in her new scaremongering essay, which makes the case that America’s “democratic institutions and traditions are under siege,” she attacks our democratic institutions and traditions. “It’s been nearly two years since Donald Trump won enough Electoral College votes to become president of the United States,” the piece begins.

The intimation, of course, widely shared by the mainstream left, is that Trump isn’t a legitimate president even though he won the election in the exact same way every other president in U.S. history has ever won election. According to our long-held democratic institutions and traditions, you become president through the Electoral College, not the non-existent popular vote.

So when Clinton, or writers at Vox, or The Atlantic, or Politico, or new liberal favorite Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, say it’s “well past time we eliminate the Electoral College, a shadow of slavery’s power on America today that undermines our nation as a democratic republic,” you’re either tragically ignorant about our system or cynically delegitimizing it. Or maybe it’s both.

The Electoral College isn’t ornamental; it exists to undercut the tyranny of direct democracy and ensure the entire nation is represented in national elections. When you attack it, you’re not condemning Trump, you are, in a very palpable way, attacking a core idea that girds much of our governance.

With this in mind, it’s not surprising that the anti-majoritarian Senate is also suddenly problematic for many Democrats. When a NBC reporter, commenting on a Washington Post article, says “the idea that North Dakota and New York get the same representation in the Senate has to change,” he’s probably not ignorant about why the Founders implemented proportional voting, or why there is a difference between the House and Senate, or why the Tenth Amendment exists. He simply favors a system he thinks would allow liberals to force others to accept his preferred policies.

That’s the thing, of course. North Dakotans can’t make New Yorkers ban abortion, even if Roe v. Wade is overturned. They can’t make New Yorkers legalize “assault weapons” if Heller is upheld. But New Yorkers are perfectly content to force North Dakotans to accept both abortion and gun control. So, then, surely nothing could be more frustrating to the contemporary liberal than the existence of an originalist court that values the self-determination of individuals and states.

That is why the effort to destroy Brett Kavanaugh wasn’t only about the nominee, but the legitimacy of the Supreme Court. When you can’t corrode constitutional protections by seating justices that simply ignore the words and purpose of the founding documents, you can proactively smear the people whose decisions do uphold those values.

When Sen. Mazie Hirono, who rejected basic tenets of due process throughout the Kavanaugh hearings, argues Kavanaugh “is going to be on the Supreme Court with a huge taint and a big asterisk after his name,” she, like many others, is giving her followers a pretext to ignore the court.

If there is a “taint,” a proper constitutionally mandated solution exists: provide evidence and impeach him. Otherwise, there is no asterisk. Republicans didn’t break any constitutional norms. Trump nominated a candidate with a blemish-free ten-year record on the DC appellate court.

Republicans in the judiciary committee had hearings in which Democrats could question the nominee. Republicans even added additional hearings after Democrats leaked uncorroborated accusations. Republicans then asked for a seventh FBI investigation into the nominee before voting. Then the entire Senate voted. There is no asterisk.
Of course, if Democrats had been in charge of the Senate, they would have been free to shelve that nomination just as Republicans had done with Merrick Garland, when they also decided adopt the “ Biden Rule.” If Democrats had followed the norms of the Senate in 2013, rather than using the nuclear option, they might have been able to filibuster Kavanaugh. They didn’t.

Instead, during this entire constitutionally mandated process we just went through, Democrats demonstrated a malicious disregard for the institution, not only by slandering those they disagreed with, and by leaking uncorroborated accusations, and by attacking the principles of Fifth and Sixth Amendments, and by ignoring long-held Senate rules during the proceedings in their Spartacus moments, but by preemptively declaring the pick illegitimate the day the president announced it.

According to liberals, every conservative-run institution is illegitimate. Working out how it’s illegitimate is the only question.

Even the questions in the aftermath of the Kavanaugh vote point to misunderstanding of process. Did Democrats “fight hard enough” to stop a nomination? What does that even mean? You fight by winning the argument, and by appealing to a large swath of Americans to win the Senate, and by winning the vote. In a decent nation, you don’t win by smearing your political opponents as gang rapists, and you don’t win by acting like a mob and screaming at your fellow citizens in restaurants and elevators.

After all, Hillary, and others who write about Trump’s supposed annihilation of our institutions, seem wholly concerned about aesthetics, manners, and policy, not procedure or institutions. Civility is a worthwhile issue, but it is a separate issue. You might find immigration and environmental policy of primary importance, but not getting your way isn’t a constitutional crisis. When they act like it is, liberals—and it’s getting progressively difficult to give them that descriptor—are destabilizing the institutions they are claiming to save.

How many times did a Democrat even mention the Constitution during the Kavanaugh hearings? I imagine, if we’re lucky, a perfunctory handful. Trump, far more than the previous administration, has strengthened proper separations of power. One of the ways he’s done it is by his judicial appointments. And Democrats’ inability to make any distinction between the neutral processes of governing and their partisan goals makes them, to this point, a far bigger threat to constitutional norms than the president.

David Harsanyi is a Senior Editor at The Federalist. He is the author of the new book, First Freedom: A Ride Through America's Enduring History with the Gun, From the Revolution to Today.


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## 大汉奸柳传志

*Taylor Swift endorses Democrats in Tennessee with rare political statement*

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/taylor-swift-endorses-democrats-tennessee-065456360.html


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## RabzonKhan

The first poll is out, after judge Brett Kavanaugh was approved by the Senate to become Chief Justice. According to a CNN poll conducted by SSRS, if the election for Congress was held today 54% likely voters will vote for Democrats and 41% for the Republicans, a margin of 13%, wow.

45% men will vote Democrats and 50% Republicans, the Republicans have five-point lead, but it looks like the Republicans will be severely punished by the woman voters, 63% will vote Democrats and only 33% will vote for Republicans.

Well, we'll wait and see, but if this trend continues and more polls show similar results, than for sure, Trump’s honeymoon would be over on November 6. *Link*

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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> The first poll is out, after judge Brett Kavanaugh was approved by the Senate to become Chief Justice. According to a CNN poll conducted by SSRS, if the election for Congress was held today 54% likely voters will vote for Democrats and 41% for the Republicans, a margin of 13%, wow.
> 
> 45% men will vote Democrats and 50% Republicans, the Republicans have five-point lead, but it looks like the Republicans will be severely punished by the woman voters, 63% will vote Democrats and only 33% will vote for Republicans.
> 
> Well, we'll wait and see, but if this trend continues and more polls show similar results, than for sure, Trump’s honeymoon would be over on November 6. *Link*
> 
> View attachment 504103
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 504104



How did the CNN polling do in nov 8th 2016? 

How are the polls that did a lot better in nov 8th 2016 doing now?:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/political_updates/prez_track_oct09

https://www.investors.com/politics/ibdtipp-poll-presidential-approval-direction-of-country/


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## Nilgiri

*Five Lessons About the Left*

SCOTT MCKAY
October 9, 2018, 12:05 am
spectator.org

What the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation ordeal taught us.

They can say what they want about Brett Kavanaugh. Except after Saturday, they’re going to have to say it about Supreme Court Associate Justice Brett Kavanaugh.

As painful as that is for the Democrat Party and the American Left, it can’t be avoided after Saturday’s 50-48 vote in what might turn out to be the most self-destructive political gambit in the country’s recent history; we’ll know that for sure in a month, when the November midterms have come and gone and the Democrats’ supposed Blue Wave sweeping them back into power on Capitol Hill either happens or (more likely) it doesn’t.

The Democrats had to know they couldn’t stop Kavanaugh’s nomination. To do that would entail getting two Republicans to vote their way and keeping all of their red-state senators in the fold — something that wasn’t going to happen with a mainstream, qualified jurist as the nominee.

Kavanaugh turned out to be a brilliant choice by President Trump — he’s a reliable, if not by reputation rabid, conservative but one who’s very well-respected in Washington and a bit of a crossover choice within the Republican Party given his Bush pedigree (the fight over Kavanaugh has done more to bring NeverTrumpers into the fold than anyone could have imagined). And Kavanaugh’s personal record was so clean that it would take a dive into pure falsehood and insanity in order to derail him.

To which the Democrat Party said, “Hold my beer.”

The campaign to destroy Kavanaugh told us a lot about the Democrats and the Hard Left advocacy groups who control that party. The main lessons fall under five basic truths.

*The Ends Justify the Means, Even if the Means Are Ridiculous and Highly Unlikely to Produce the Ends.*

Give the Dems credit, because they did at least try to convince the American people Kavanaugh wasn’t a mainstream jurist first before attempting to smear him with accusations he’s a sexual predator. Where they went wrong was that when the first argument didn’t convince the public and wasn’t persuasive against the Jeff Flakes and Susan Collinses of the world, they neglected to make the best of the situation and use the impending loss of the Kavanaugh fight to motivate their voters.

Somebody atop George Soros’ network of tin pot revolutionaries got together with Tom Perez and legitimate woman abuser Keith Ellison at the DNC, not to mention Chuck Schumer and Dianne Feinstein, and decided, to paraphrase Sen. John Kennedy, to hit bottom and start digging. Drumming up an allegation by a mentally unstable California psychology professor that Kavanaugh had been inappropriate and perhaps abusive during a high school encounter 36 years in the past, and then doubling and tripling down with even less plausible allegations, all the while leaving what looks like a fairly clear paper trail of coordination, is the kind of all-in bluff no credible political operative would say was worth the risk.

But Schumer, Feinstein et al. pushed those chips into the middle, expecting Trump and Kavanaugh would fold. When they didn’t, and when Trump went further and derisively offered a true characterization of Christine Ford’s testimony in a 36-second outburst in a Mississippi campaign appearance the entire political class treated as an unforgivable breach of presidential protocol, it became clear the entire episode was a lost cause.

Even then, the professional Left failed to sound the retreat. Some 567 protesters were arrested at the Capitol in the last three days of the Kavanaugh confirmation process, many for engaging in behavior that normal Americans would regard as evidence of insanity. In a campaign appearance in Kansas, Trump again skewered the Left as “ too dangerous and extreme to govern,” which is exactly the characterization the Democrats can’t afford to have the country accept where they’re concerned. And it’s exactly the characterization their antics have lent an air of truth to.

*The Modern Left Is a Movement by and for People Incapable of Doing a Proper Job at Honest Work.*

This isn’t just a fun thing I say in this space all the time. It can’t be disputed any more after the Kavanaugh ordeal.

We already know many, if not most, of those protesters at the Capitol were paid; we know this because they admitted as much. And their employers hardly got their money’s worth; other than when a couple of Soros-funded apparatchiks cornered Flake in an elevator and managed to get him to call for an expanded FBI background investigation into the Christine Ford and Deborah Ramirez allegations — something which raised the ire of lots of Republicans but actually ended up being a good idea, as the FBI all but confirmed those allegations were uncorroborated rubbish, building support for Kavanaugh among the nonpolitical and giving Flake, Collins, and West Virginia Democrat Joe Manchin cover to support his confirmation — every time the Democrats’ protesters interacted with Republican Senators they came away looking like abject fools.

But it wasn’t just the protesters who came off looking like unemployable dunces. Consider how the hearings went for the Democrats’ supposed best and brightest. There was Mazie Hirono and her non-stop fact-free tirades about how all the men in America need to shut up, there was “Spartacus” Booker and his inanities too numerous to count, there was the comic irony of “Da Nang Dick” Blumenthal, with his falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus challenge to Kavanaugh after riding a Stolen Valor claim of having served in Vietnam to the Senate in the first place, there was the hard-to-believe interrogation of Kavanaugh about references to farting in his high school yearbook.

These were not indications of people capable of being effective in their jobs. I’ve said it before, but when you embrace intersectional feminism, postmodern identity politics, and socialist economics as the three-legged stool of your political philosophy you’re not going to attract a lot of people grounded in the kind of reality necessary to do objectively good work — and sooner or later it’s going to become obvious that none of your people can make your trains run on time.

*They Don’t Like Straight White Guys. At All.*

This is clear enough without a lot of explanation, no? The Kavanaugh allegations were wholly unsupported by any corroborating evidence at all, something that the Republicans’ hired-gun outside counsel Rachel Mitchell exposed in a highly underrated manner during Christine Ford’s testimony, and at the end of the fact-finding process the Democrats found themselves whining about Kavanaugh’s tone. This after accusing a family man with an impeccable reputation of being a gang rapist, of all things; the effect of which was to put every male — and in particular every straight white male — in America on the defensive with eyes wide open to the threat a hypercynical and loony American Left poses to them when their New Rules migrate out of the academic fever swamps and into the real world.

But it’s worse than that, because the seething hatred for the “patriarchy” doesn’t just scare the bejesus out of the male voters the Dems used to be able to call upon to make a majority — what we’re seeing is it might even have a more corrosive effect on married women who have husbands and sons, and it’s not very helpful among black and Hispanic voters, either.

The people who used to run the Democrat Party could have told them running out with “Believe All Women” was a bad idea, and not just because it makes Bill Clinton look like a rapist; it also recalls similar sentiments used to justify the lynch mobs of Scottsboro, Alabama and Money, Mississippi. And no, switching from railroading black men to railroading white ones doesn’t help the situation.

*They’ve Bought in to the Academic Left’s War on Facts and Evidence, Hook, Line and Sinker.*

At Powerline and other sites there has been a good discussion of the “ Grievance Studies” scandal, in which three self-described “left-leaning liberal” academics submitted a raft of papers for peer review in a number of social science journals which were purposely filled with patent absurdities, and had five of them published — including, hilariously enough, a 3,000 word excerpt of Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf, rewritten in the language of Intersectionality theory and published in the Gender Studies journal Affilia.

Nobody is particularly surprised at the scandal, as the declining quality of left-wing scholarship is quite well known. What the Kavanaugh hearings indicated was that the idiotic thought processes which created the Grievance Studies scandal are alive and well in the top echelons of the Democrat Party. If this weren’t true you wouldn’t see senators like Hirono and Chris Coons intone against the presumption of innocence in the Kavanaugh case. Their justification for such insane statements were that the hearings were merely a job interview — a poor attempt, to be sure, given that the Senate’s advise and consent function is a constitutional act and to disparage one of the most fundamental rights in American jurisprudence amid that process is a prima facie abuse, and also because any corporate recruiter will tell you no employer much cares about what a 51-year-old job candidate did in high school.

*Drag a $100 Bill Through a Faculty Lounge, Government Bureau, or Union Hall, and You’ll Never Know What You’ll Find.*

That’s a paraphrase of a quote James Carville, Clinton’s ethically-challenged political consultant, offered up about trailer parks amid the former president’s many “bimbo eruptions,” but it’s become an unmistakable characteristic of the Democrats’ politics of late. After all, it’s clear Christine Ford was recruited to produce her allegation against Kavanaugh — as time goes by we’re going to find out more about the roles Monica McLean and David Laufman, formerly of the FBI, played in producing Ford’s allegations in concert with Schumer and Feinstein.

In any other profession, the risk to Ford’s career from going national with a clearly false allegation against a Supreme Court nominee would be fatal to future job prospects. But Ford is an academic at Palo Alto University in California, and nobody seriously believes she’ll suffer from it. After all, Anita Hill didn’t.

And if you can’t find a huckleberry in the left-wing monopolized universities, there’s always the unionized state and governmental bureaucracy which doesn’t exactly tolerate a panoply of differing political views. Let’s remember that Ramirez and Julie Swetnik, whose allegations about Kavanaugh were nothing short of farcical, were government bureaucrats at least at some point in their careers (as were McLean and Laufman); there might be even less sanction against liars among the Deep State than on campus.

Just ask Valerie Plame. She’d have fit right into last week’s mess.

@cloud4000 @my2cents @Desert Fox @Hamartia Antidote @SorryNotSorry

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## SorryNotSorry

Nilgiri said:


> *Five Lessons About the Left*
> 
> SCOTT MCKAY
> October 9, 2018, 12:05 am
> spectator.org
> 
> What the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation ordeal taught us.
> 
> They can say what they want about Brett Kavanaugh. Except after Saturday, they’re going to have to say it about Supreme Court Associate Justice Brett Kavanaugh.
> 
> As painful as that is for the Democrat Party and the American Left, it can’t be avoided after Saturday’s 50-48 vote in what might turn out to be the most self-destructive political gambit in the country’s recent history; we’ll know that for sure in a month, when the November midterms have come and gone and the Democrats’ supposed Blue Wave sweeping them back into power on Capitol Hill either happens or (more likely) it doesn’t.
> 
> The Democrats had to know they couldn’t stop Kavanaugh’s nomination. To do that would entail getting two Republicans to vote their way and keeping all of their red-state senators in the fold — something that wasn’t going to happen with a mainstream, qualified jurist as the nominee.
> 
> Kavanaugh turned out to be a brilliant choice by President Trump — he’s a reliable, if not by reputation rabid, conservative but one who’s very well-respected in Washington and a bit of a crossover choice within the Republican Party given his Bush pedigree (the fight over Kavanaugh has done more to bring NeverTrumpers into the fold than anyone could have imagined). And Kavanaugh’s personal record was so clean that it would take a dive into pure falsehood and insanity in order to derail him.
> 
> To which the Democrat Party said, “Hold my beer.”
> 
> The campaign to destroy Kavanaugh told us a lot about the Democrats and the Hard Left advocacy groups who control that party. The main lessons fall under five basic truths.
> 
> *The Ends Justify the Means, Even if the Means Are Ridiculous and Highly Unlikely to Produce the Ends.*
> 
> Give the Dems credit, because they did at least try to convince the American people Kavanaugh wasn’t a mainstream jurist first before attempting to smear him with accusations he’s a sexual predator. Where they went wrong was that when the first argument didn’t convince the public and wasn’t persuasive against the Jeff Flakes and Susan Collinses of the world, they neglected to make the best of the situation and use the impending loss of the Kavanaugh fight to motivate their voters.
> 
> Somebody atop George Soros’ network of tin pot revolutionaries got together with Tom Perez and legitimate woman abuser Keith Ellison at the DNC, not to mention Chuck Schumer and Dianne Feinstein, and decided, to paraphrase Sen. John Kennedy, to hit bottom and start digging. Drumming up an allegation by a mentally unstable California psychology professor that Kavanaugh had been inappropriate and perhaps abusive during a high school encounter 36 years in the past, and then doubling and tripling down with even less plausible allegations, all the while leaving what looks like a fairly clear paper trail of coordination, is the kind of all-in bluff no credible political operative would say was worth the risk.
> 
> But Schumer, Feinstein et al. pushed those chips into the middle, expecting Trump and Kavanaugh would fold. When they didn’t, and when Trump went further and derisively offered a true characterization of Christine Ford’s testimony in a 36-second outburst in a Mississippi campaign appearance the entire political class treated as an unforgivable breach of presidential protocol, it became clear the entire episode was a lost cause.
> 
> Even then, the professional Left failed to sound the retreat. Some 567 protesters were arrested at the Capitol in the last three days of the Kavanaugh confirmation process, many for engaging in behavior that normal Americans would regard as evidence of insanity. In a campaign appearance in Kansas, Trump again skewered the Left as “ too dangerous and extreme to govern,” which is exactly the characterization the Democrats can’t afford to have the country accept where they’re concerned. And it’s exactly the characterization their antics have lent an air of truth to.
> 
> *The Modern Left Is a Movement by and for People Incapable of Doing a Proper Job at Honest Work.*
> 
> This isn’t just a fun thing I say in this space all the time. It can’t be disputed any more after the Kavanaugh ordeal.
> 
> We already know many, if not most, of those protesters at the Capitol were paid; we know this because they admitted as much. And their employers hardly got their money’s worth; other than when a couple of Soros-funded apparatchiks cornered Flake in an elevator and managed to get him to call for an expanded FBI background investigation into the Christine Ford and Deborah Ramirez allegations — something which raised the ire of lots of Republicans but actually ended up being a good idea, as the FBI all but confirmed those allegations were uncorroborated rubbish, building support for Kavanaugh among the nonpolitical and giving Flake, Collins, and West Virginia Democrat Joe Manchin cover to support his confirmation — every time the Democrats’ protesters interacted with Republican Senators they came away looking like abject fools.
> 
> But it wasn’t just the protesters who came off looking like unemployable dunces. Consider how the hearings went for the Democrats’ supposed best and brightest. There was Mazie Hirono and her non-stop fact-free tirades about how all the men in America need to shut up, there was “Spartacus” Booker and his inanities too numerous to count, there was the comic irony of “Da Nang Dick” Blumenthal, with his falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus challenge to Kavanaugh after riding a Stolen Valor claim of having served in Vietnam to the Senate in the first place, there was the hard-to-believe interrogation of Kavanaugh about references to farting in his high school yearbook.
> 
> These were not indications of people capable of being effective in their jobs. I’ve said it before, but when you embrace intersectional feminism, postmodern identity politics, and socialist economics as the three-legged stool of your political philosophy you’re not going to attract a lot of people grounded in the kind of reality necessary to do objectively good work — and sooner or later it’s going to become obvious that none of your people can make your trains run on time.
> 
> *They Don’t Like Straight White Guys. At All.*
> 
> This is clear enough without a lot of explanation, no? The Kavanaugh allegations were wholly unsupported by any corroborating evidence at all, something that the Republicans’ hired-gun outside counsel Rachel Mitchell exposed in a highly underrated manner during Christine Ford’s testimony, and at the end of the fact-finding process the Democrats found themselves whining about Kavanaugh’s tone. This after accusing a family man with an impeccable reputation of being a gang rapist, of all things; the effect of which was to put every male — and in particular every straight white male — in America on the defensive with eyes wide open to the threat a hypercynical and loony American Left poses to them when their New Rules migrate out of the academic fever swamps and into the real world.
> 
> But it’s worse than that, because the seething hatred for the “patriarchy” doesn’t just scare the bejesus out of the male voters the Dems used to be able to call upon to make a majority — what we’re seeing is it might even have a more corrosive effect on married women who have husbands and sons, and it’s not very helpful among black and Hispanic voters, either.
> 
> The people who used to run the Democrat Party could have told them running out with “Believe All Women” was a bad idea, and not just because it makes Bill Clinton look like a rapist; it also recalls similar sentiments used to justify the lynch mobs of Scottsboro, Alabama and Money, Mississippi. And no, switching from railroading black men to railroading white ones doesn’t help the situation.
> 
> *They’ve Bought in to the Academic Left’s War on Facts and Evidence, Hook, Line and Sinker.*
> 
> At Powerline and other sites there has been a good discussion of the “ Grievance Studies” scandal, in which three self-described “left-leaning liberal” academics submitted a raft of papers for peer review in a number of social science journals which were purposely filled with patent absurdities, and had five of them published — including, hilariously enough, a 3,000 word excerpt of Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf, rewritten in the language of Intersectionality theory and published in the Gender Studies journal Affilia.
> 
> Nobody is particularly surprised at the scandal, as the declining quality of left-wing scholarship is quite well known. What the Kavanaugh hearings indicated was that the idiotic thought processes which created the Grievance Studies scandal are alive and well in the top echelons of the Democrat Party. If this weren’t true you wouldn’t see senators like Hirono and Chris Coons intone against the presumption of innocence in the Kavanaugh case. Their justification for such insane statements were that the hearings were merely a job interview — a poor attempt, to be sure, given that the Senate’s advise and consent function is a constitutional act and to disparage one of the most fundamental rights in American jurisprudence amid that process is a prima facie abuse, and also because any corporate recruiter will tell you no employer much cares about what a 51-year-old job candidate did in high school.
> 
> *Drag a $100 Bill Through a Faculty Lounge, Government Bureau, or Union Hall, and You’ll Never Know What You’ll Find.*
> 
> That’s a paraphrase of a quote James Carville, Clinton’s ethically-challenged political consultant, offered up about trailer parks amid the former president’s many “bimbo eruptions,” but it’s become an unmistakable characteristic of the Democrats’ politics of late. After all, it’s clear Christine Ford was recruited to produce her allegation against Kavanaugh — as time goes by we’re going to find out more about the roles Monica McLean and David Laufman, formerly of the FBI, played in producing Ford’s allegations in concert with Schumer and Feinstein.
> 
> In any other profession, the risk to Ford’s career from going national with a clearly false allegation against a Supreme Court nominee would be fatal to future job prospects. But Ford is an academic at Palo Alto University in California, and nobody seriously believes she’ll suffer from it. After all, Anita Hill didn’t.
> 
> And if you can’t find a huckleberry in the left-wing monopolized universities, there’s always the unionized state and governmental bureaucracy which doesn’t exactly tolerate a panoply of differing political views. Let’s remember that Ramirez and Julie Swetnik, whose allegations about Kavanaugh were nothing short of farcical, were government bureaucrats at least at some point in their careers (as were McLean and Laufman); there might be even less sanction against liars among the Deep State than on campus.
> 
> Just ask Valerie Plame. She’d have fit right into last week’s mess.
> 
> @cloud4000 @my2cents @Desert Fox @Hamartia Antidote @SorryNotSorry


The Democrats must’ve already known the ploy was prone to failure, but what’s ridiculous is the hordes of super entitled mindless genderless colorful leftist zombies who get swept away by these antics. The levels of retardation still surprise me.

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## Nilgiri

https://www.breitbart.com/big-journ...ence-and-harassment-against-trump-supporters/

*Rap Sheet: ***583** Acts of Media-Approved Violence and Harassment Against Trump Supporters*

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## Nilgiri

Watch the first half of this at least @SorryNotSorry when you got a little time, it basically ties in what you wrote earlier:

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## Hamartia Antidote

Nilgiri said:


> *Five Lessons About the Left*
> 
> SCOTT MCKAY
> October 9, 2018, 12:05 am
> spectator.org
> 
> What the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation ordeal taught us.
> 
> They can say what they want about Brett Kavanaugh. Except after Saturday, they’re going to have to say it about Supreme Court Associate Justice Brett Kavanaugh.
> 
> As painful as that is for the Democrat Party and the American Left, it can’t be avoided after Saturday’s 50-48 vote in what might turn out to be the most self-destructive political gambit in the country’s recent history; we’ll know that for sure in a month, when the November midterms have come and gone and the Democrats’ supposed Blue Wave sweeping them back into power on Capitol Hill either happens or (more likely) it doesn’t.
> 
> The Democrats had to know they couldn’t stop Kavanaugh’s nomination. To do that would entail getting two Republicans to vote their way and keeping all of their red-state senators in the fold — something that wasn’t going to happen with a mainstream, qualified jurist as the nominee.
> 
> Kavanaugh turned out to be a brilliant choice by President Trump — he’s a reliable, if not by reputation rabid, conservative but one who’s very well-respected in Washington and a bit of a crossover choice within the Republican Party given his Bush pedigree (the fight over Kavanaugh has done more to bring NeverTrumpers into the fold than anyone could have imagined). And Kavanaugh’s personal record was so clean that it would take a dive into pure falsehood and insanity in order to derail him.
> 
> To which the Democrat Party said, “Hold my beer.”
> 
> The campaign to destroy Kavanaugh told us a lot about the Democrats and the Hard Left advocacy groups who control that party. The main lessons fall under five basic truths.
> 
> *The Ends Justify the Means, Even if the Means Are Ridiculous and Highly Unlikely to Produce the Ends.*
> 
> Give the Dems credit, because they did at least try to convince the American people Kavanaugh wasn’t a mainstream jurist first before attempting to smear him with accusations he’s a sexual predator. Where they went wrong was that when the first argument didn’t convince the public and wasn’t persuasive against the Jeff Flakes and Susan Collinses of the world, they neglected to make the best of the situation and use the impending loss of the Kavanaugh fight to motivate their voters.
> 
> Somebody atop George Soros’ network of tin pot revolutionaries got together with Tom Perez and legitimate woman abuser Keith Ellison at the DNC, not to mention Chuck Schumer and Dianne Feinstein, and decided, to paraphrase Sen. John Kennedy, to hit bottom and start digging. Drumming up an allegation by a mentally unstable California psychology professor that Kavanaugh had been inappropriate and perhaps abusive during a high school encounter 36 years in the past, and then doubling and tripling down with even less plausible allegations, all the while leaving what looks like a fairly clear paper trail of coordination, is the kind of all-in bluff no credible political operative would say was worth the risk.
> 
> But Schumer, Feinstein et al. pushed those chips into the middle, expecting Trump and Kavanaugh would fold. When they didn’t, and when Trump went further and derisively offered a true characterization of Christine Ford’s testimony in a 36-second outburst in a Mississippi campaign appearance the entire political class treated as an unforgivable breach of presidential protocol, it became clear the entire episode was a lost cause.
> 
> Even then, the professional Left failed to sound the retreat. Some 567 protesters were arrested at the Capitol in the last three days of the Kavanaugh confirmation process, many for engaging in behavior that normal Americans would regard as evidence of insanity. In a campaign appearance in Kansas, Trump again skewered the Left as “ too dangerous and extreme to govern,” which is exactly the characterization the Democrats can’t afford to have the country accept where they’re concerned. And it’s exactly the characterization their antics have lent an air of truth to.
> 
> *The Modern Left Is a Movement by and for People Incapable of Doing a Proper Job at Honest Work.*
> 
> This isn’t just a fun thing I say in this space all the time. It can’t be disputed any more after the Kavanaugh ordeal.
> 
> We already know many, if not most, of those protesters at the Capitol were paid; we know this because they admitted as much. And their employers hardly got their money’s worth; other than when a couple of Soros-funded apparatchiks cornered Flake in an elevator and managed to get him to call for an expanded FBI background investigation into the Christine Ford and Deborah Ramirez allegations — something which raised the ire of lots of Republicans but actually ended up being a good idea, as the FBI all but confirmed those allegations were uncorroborated rubbish, building support for Kavanaugh among the nonpolitical and giving Flake, Collins, and West Virginia Democrat Joe Manchin cover to support his confirmation — every time the Democrats’ protesters interacted with Republican Senators they came away looking like abject fools.
> 
> But it wasn’t just the protesters who came off looking like unemployable dunces. Consider how the hearings went for the Democrats’ supposed best and brightest. There was Mazie Hirono and her non-stop fact-free tirades about how all the men in America need to shut up, there was “Spartacus” Booker and his inanities too numerous to count, there was the comic irony of “Da Nang Dick” Blumenthal, with his falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus challenge to Kavanaugh after riding a Stolen Valor claim of having served in Vietnam to the Senate in the first place, there was the hard-to-believe interrogation of Kavanaugh about references to farting in his high school yearbook.
> 
> These were not indications of people capable of being effective in their jobs. I’ve said it before, but when you embrace intersectional feminism, postmodern identity politics, and socialist economics as the three-legged stool of your political philosophy you’re not going to attract a lot of people grounded in the kind of reality necessary to do objectively good work — and sooner or later it’s going to become obvious that none of your people can make your trains run on time.
> 
> *They Don’t Like Straight White Guys. At All.*
> 
> This is clear enough without a lot of explanation, no? The Kavanaugh allegations were wholly unsupported by any corroborating evidence at all, something that the Republicans’ hired-gun outside counsel Rachel Mitchell exposed in a highly underrated manner during Christine Ford’s testimony, and at the end of the fact-finding process the Democrats found themselves whining about Kavanaugh’s tone. This after accusing a family man with an impeccable reputation of being a gang rapist, of all things; the effect of which was to put every male — and in particular every straight white male — in America on the defensive with eyes wide open to the threat a hypercynical and loony American Left poses to them when their New Rules migrate out of the academic fever swamps and into the real world.
> 
> But it’s worse than that, because the seething hatred for the “patriarchy” doesn’t just scare the bejesus out of the male voters the Dems used to be able to call upon to make a majority — what we’re seeing is it might even have a more corrosive effect on married women who have husbands and sons, and it’s not very helpful among black and Hispanic voters, either.
> 
> The people who used to run the Democrat Party could have told them running out with “Believe All Women” was a bad idea, and not just because it makes Bill Clinton look like a rapist; it also recalls similar sentiments used to justify the lynch mobs of Scottsboro, Alabama and Money, Mississippi. And no, switching from railroading black men to railroading white ones doesn’t help the situation.
> 
> *They’ve Bought in to the Academic Left’s War on Facts and Evidence, Hook, Line and Sinker.*
> 
> At Powerline and other sites there has been a good discussion of the “ Grievance Studies” scandal, in which three self-described “left-leaning liberal” academics submitted a raft of papers for peer review in a number of social science journals which were purposely filled with patent absurdities, and had five of them published — including, hilariously enough, a 3,000 word excerpt of Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf, rewritten in the language of Intersectionality theory and published in the Gender Studies journal Affilia.
> 
> Nobody is particularly surprised at the scandal, as the declining quality of left-wing scholarship is quite well known. What the Kavanaugh hearings indicated was that the idiotic thought processes which created the Grievance Studies scandal are alive and well in the top echelons of the Democrat Party. If this weren’t true you wouldn’t see senators like Hirono and Chris Coons intone against the presumption of innocence in the Kavanaugh case. Their justification for such insane statements were that the hearings were merely a job interview — a poor attempt, to be sure, given that the Senate’s advise and consent function is a constitutional act and to disparage one of the most fundamental rights in American jurisprudence amid that process is a prima facie abuse, and also because any corporate recruiter will tell you no employer much cares about what a 51-year-old job candidate did in high school.
> 
> *Drag a $100 Bill Through a Faculty Lounge, Government Bureau, or Union Hall, and You’ll Never Know What You’ll Find.*
> 
> That’s a paraphrase of a quote James Carville, Clinton’s ethically-challenged political consultant, offered up about trailer parks amid the former president’s many “bimbo eruptions,” but it’s become an unmistakable characteristic of the Democrats’ politics of late. After all, it’s clear Christine Ford was recruited to produce her allegation against Kavanaugh — as time goes by we’re going to find out more about the roles Monica McLean and David Laufman, formerly of the FBI, played in producing Ford’s allegations in concert with Schumer and Feinstein.
> 
> In any other profession, the risk to Ford’s career from going national with a clearly false allegation against a Supreme Court nominee would be fatal to future job prospects. But Ford is an academic at Palo Alto University in California, and nobody seriously believes she’ll suffer from it. After all, Anita Hill didn’t.
> 
> And if you can’t find a huckleberry in the left-wing monopolized universities, there’s always the unionized state and governmental bureaucracy which doesn’t exactly tolerate a panoply of differing political views. Let’s remember that Ramirez and Julie Swetnik, whose allegations about Kavanaugh were nothing short of farcical, were government bureaucrats at least at some point in their careers (as were McLean and Laufman); there might be even less sanction against liars among the Deep State than on campus.
> 
> Just ask Valerie Plame. She’d have fit right into last week’s mess.
> 
> @cloud4000 @my2cents @Desert Fox @Hamartia Antidote @SorryNotSorry



Meh, I'm not leaning much either way in terms of Democrats vs Republicans or way left or way right as I think they are all dopey. I am amused at how the Liberal Left has taken the Absolute Nutjob Award away from the Conservative Right which has held it tight for several decades.

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## Nilgiri

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Meh, I'm not leaning much either way in terms of Democrats vs Republicans or way left or way right as I think they are all dopey. I am amused at how the Liberal Left has taken the Absolute Nutjob Award away from the Conservative Right which has held it tight for several decades.



For all the talk by MSM over the decades of the "conservative right" (tea party etc etc)....not once did senators need security details (like in the last few weeks) around them to enter the Capitol.

The reason you have this impression of the conservative right is because of the media slant/bias on it (ever since the times of Walter Cronkite tbh)....in fact much of them are not even endorsed by the republican party (unlike the progressive movement which is very much part and parcel of the Democrat party now) It is quite astounding for example how much the NYT suppressed w.r.t the communist atrocities worldwide....because it would conflict with the agenda they sought w.r.t the US political system.

I for one wonder what the MSM would report if a republican president did even 0.01% of the unleashing of the IRS on their political opponents like Obama openly did (with the tea party)....or spent even 0.01% of the money obama did on suppressing information from the media (to the tune of 36 million dollars w.r.t only Iran deal related stuff iirc) which otherwise would have been released under right to information act/free press act.

Anyways, the chickens are coming to roost now regarding who is truly the non-civil, violence prone, antifa thug type side (aided all the more by Hillary clinton literally announcing that the time for civility towards opponents only exists when the dems are in power).

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## my2cents

Nilgiri said:


> *Five Lessons About the Left*
> 
> SCOTT MCKAY
> October 9, 2018, 12:05 am
> spectator.org
> 
> What the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation ordeal taught us.
> 
> They can say what they want about Brett Kavanaugh. Except after Saturday, they’re going to have to say it about Supreme Court Associate Justice Brett Kavanaugh.
> 
> As painful as that is for the Democrat Party and the American Left, it can’t be avoided after Saturday’s 50-48 vote in what might turn out to be the most self-destructive political gambit in the country’s recent history; we’ll know that for sure in a month, when the November midterms have come and gone and the Democrats’ supposed Blue Wave sweeping them back into power on Capitol Hill either happens or (more likely) it doesn’t.
> 
> The Democrats had to know they couldn’t stop Kavanaugh’s nomination. To do that would entail getting two Republicans to vote their way and keeping all of their red-state senators in the fold — something that wasn’t going to happen with a mainstream, qualified jurist as the nominee.
> 
> Kavanaugh turned out to be a brilliant choice by President Trump — he’s a reliable, if not by reputation rabid, conservative but one who’s very well-respected in Washington and a bit of a crossover choice within the Republican Party given his Bush pedigree (the fight over Kavanaugh has done more to bring NeverTrumpers into the fold than anyone could have imagined). And Kavanaugh’s personal record was so clean that it would take a dive into pure falsehood and insanity in order to derail him.
> 
> To which the Democrat Party said, “Hold my beer.”
> 
> The campaign to destroy Kavanaugh told us a lot about the Democrats and the Hard Left advocacy groups who control that party. The main lessons fall under five basic truths.
> 
> *The Ends Justify the Means, Even if the Means Are Ridiculous and Highly Unlikely to Produce the Ends.*
> 
> Give the Dems credit, because they did at least try to convince the American people Kavanaugh wasn’t a mainstream jurist first before attempting to smear him with accusations he’s a sexual predator. Where they went wrong was that when the first argument didn’t convince the public and wasn’t persuasive against the Jeff Flakes and Susan Collinses of the world, they neglected to make the best of the situation and use the impending loss of the Kavanaugh fight to motivate their voters.
> 
> Somebody atop George Soros’ network of tin pot revolutionaries got together with Tom Perez and legitimate woman abuser Keith Ellison at the DNC, not to mention Chuck Schumer and Dianne Feinstein, and decided, to paraphrase Sen. John Kennedy, to hit bottom and start digging. Drumming up an allegation by a mentally unstable California psychology professor that Kavanaugh had been inappropriate and perhaps abusive during a high school encounter 36 years in the past, and then doubling and tripling down with even less plausible allegations, all the while leaving what looks like a fairly clear paper trail of coordination, is the kind of all-in bluff no credible political operative would say was worth the risk.
> 
> But Schumer, Feinstein et al. pushed those chips into the middle, expecting Trump and Kavanaugh would fold. When they didn’t, and when Trump went further and derisively offered a true characterization of Christine Ford’s testimony in a 36-second outburst in a Mississippi campaign appearance the entire political class treated as an unforgivable breach of presidential protocol, it became clear the entire episode was a lost cause.
> 
> Even then, the professional Left failed to sound the retreat. Some 567 protesters were arrested at the Capitol in the last three days of the Kavanaugh confirmation process, many for engaging in behavior that normal Americans would regard as evidence of insanity. In a campaign appearance in Kansas, Trump again skewered the Left as “ too dangerous and extreme to govern,” which is exactly the characterization the Democrats can’t afford to have the country accept where they’re concerned. And it’s exactly the characterization their antics have lent an air of truth to.
> 
> *The Modern Left Is a Movement by and for People Incapable of Doing a Proper Job at Honest Work.*
> 
> This isn’t just a fun thing I say in this space all the time. It can’t be disputed any more after the Kavanaugh ordeal.
> 
> We already know many, if not most, of those protesters at the Capitol were paid; we know this because they admitted as much. And their employers hardly got their money’s worth; other than when a couple of Soros-funded apparatchiks cornered Flake in an elevator and managed to get him to call for an expanded FBI background investigation into the Christine Ford and Deborah Ramirez allegations — something which raised the ire of lots of Republicans but actually ended up being a good idea, as the FBI all but confirmed those allegations were uncorroborated rubbish, building support for Kavanaugh among the nonpolitical and giving Flake, Collins, and West Virginia Democrat Joe Manchin cover to support his confirmation — every time the Democrats’ protesters interacted with Republican Senators they came away looking like abject fools.
> 
> But it wasn’t just the protesters who came off looking like unemployable dunces. Consider how the hearings went for the Democrats’ supposed best and brightest. There was Mazie Hirono and her non-stop fact-free tirades about how all the men in America need to shut up, there was “Spartacus” Booker and his inanities too numerous to count, there was the comic irony of “Da Nang Dick” Blumenthal, with his falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus challenge to Kavanaugh after riding a Stolen Valor claim of having served in Vietnam to the Senate in the first place, there was the hard-to-believe interrogation of Kavanaugh about references to farting in his high school yearbook.
> 
> These were not indications of people capable of being effective in their jobs. I’ve said it before, but when you embrace intersectional feminism, postmodern identity politics, and socialist economics as the three-legged stool of your political philosophy you’re not going to attract a lot of people grounded in the kind of reality necessary to do objectively good work — and sooner or later it’s going to become obvious that none of your people can make your trains run on time.
> 
> *They Don’t Like Straight White Guys. At All.*
> 
> This is clear enough without a lot of explanation, no? The Kavanaugh allegations were wholly unsupported by any corroborating evidence at all, something that the Republicans’ hired-gun outside counsel Rachel Mitchell exposed in a highly underrated manner during Christine Ford’s testimony, and at the end of the fact-finding process the Democrats found themselves whining about Kavanaugh’s tone. This after accusing a family man with an impeccable reputation of being a gang rapist, of all things; the effect of which was to put every male — and in particular every straight white male — in America on the defensive with eyes wide open to the threat a hypercynical and loony American Left poses to them when their New Rules migrate out of the academic fever swamps and into the real world.
> 
> But it’s worse than that, because the seething hatred for the “patriarchy” doesn’t just scare the bejesus out of the male voters the Dems used to be able to call upon to make a majority — what we’re seeing is it might even have a more corrosive effect on married women who have husbands and sons, and it’s not very helpful among black and Hispanic voters, either.
> 
> The people who used to run the Democrat Party could have told them running out with “Believe All Women” was a bad idea, and not just because it makes Bill Clinton look like a rapist; it also recalls similar sentiments used to justify the lynch mobs of Scottsboro, Alabama and Money, Mississippi. And no, switching from railroading black men to railroading white ones doesn’t help the situation.
> 
> *They’ve Bought in to the Academic Left’s War on Facts and Evidence, Hook, Line and Sinker.*
> 
> At Powerline and other sites there has been a good discussion of the “ Grievance Studies” scandal, in which three self-described “left-leaning liberal” academics submitted a raft of papers for peer review in a number of social science journals which were purposely filled with patent absurdities, and had five of them published — including, hilariously enough, a 3,000 word excerpt of Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf, rewritten in the language of Intersectionality theory and published in the Gender Studies journal Affilia.
> 
> Nobody is particularly surprised at the scandal, as the declining quality of left-wing scholarship is quite well known. What the Kavanaugh hearings indicated was that the idiotic thought processes which created the Grievance Studies scandal are alive and well in the top echelons of the Democrat Party. If this weren’t true you wouldn’t see senators like Hirono and Chris Coons intone against the presumption of innocence in the Kavanaugh case. Their justification for such insane statements were that the hearings were merely a job interview — a poor attempt, to be sure, given that the Senate’s advise and consent function is a constitutional act and to disparage one of the most fundamental rights in American jurisprudence amid that process is a prima facie abuse, and also because any corporate recruiter will tell you no employer much cares about what a 51-year-old job candidate did in high school.
> 
> *Drag a $100 Bill Through a Faculty Lounge, Government Bureau, or Union Hall, and You’ll Never Know What You’ll Find.*
> 
> That’s a paraphrase of a quote James Carville, Clinton’s ethically-challenged political consultant, offered up about trailer parks amid the former president’s many “bimbo eruptions,” but it’s become an unmistakable characteristic of the Democrats’ politics of late. After all, it’s clear Christine Ford was recruited to produce her allegation against Kavanaugh — as time goes by we’re going to find out more about the roles Monica McLean and David Laufman, formerly of the FBI, played in producing Ford’s allegations in concert with Schumer and Feinstein.
> 
> In any other profession, the risk to Ford’s career from going national with a clearly false allegation against a Supreme Court nominee would be fatal to future job prospects. But Ford is an academic at Palo Alto University in California, and nobody seriously believes she’ll suffer from it. After all, Anita Hill didn’t.
> 
> And if you can’t find a huckleberry in the left-wing monopolized universities, there’s always the unionized state and governmental bureaucracy which doesn’t exactly tolerate a panoply of differing political views. Let’s remember that Ramirez and Julie Swetnik, whose allegations about Kavanaugh were nothing short of farcical, were government bureaucrats at least at some point in their careers (as were McLean and Laufman); there might be even less sanction against liars among the Deep State than on campus.
> 
> Just ask Valerie Plame. She’d have fit right into last week’s mess.
> 
> @cloud4000 @my2cents @Desert Fox @Hamartia Antidote @SorryNotSorry


I didñt watch the full confirmation hearings, only snippets. Democrats tried their best with their usual innuendos, insinuation of their character, only this time it made them look outright disperate and silly. Democrats have no chance to get the majority in the senate or the house this coming November elections. You will see more of those shenanigans and dishonest conduct in coming months.

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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> *For the Left: The Ends Justify the Means, Even if the Means Are Ridiculous and Highly Unlikely to Produce the Ends.*





Nilgiri said:


> The Modern Left Is a Movement by and for People Incapable of Doing a Proper Job at Honest Work.





Nilgiri said:


> They’ve Bought in to the Academic Left’s War on Facts and Evidence, Hook, Line and Sinker.



The Left has been waging a total cultural war, using any and all means, even the most ridiculous ones to achieve their ends, and they have been getting away with it due to the sellouts who call themselves "conservatives" who have been giving ground to these rabid Marxists, that is up until Trump (who isn't a conventional "conservative"). This is why the Left has been deploying desparate tactics like false accusations because they know that the damage will be done regardless if the allegations are proven to be false.



Hamartia Antidote said:


> Meh, I'm not leaning much either way in terms of Democrats vs Republicans or way left or way right as I think they are all dopey. I am amused at how the Liberal Left has taken the Absolute Nutjob Award away from the Conservative Right which has held it tight for several decades.


At some point you will be forced to choose a side, if not now then maybe when being a "privileged white heterosexual male" is finally criminalized.

This is the problem all throughout the West, people are still too comfortable because for many, things haven't yet started impacting their lives (or their money). Perhaps when people like Occasio Cortez and her supporters become the majority (which they are projected to become within your and my lifetimes) and a "white privilege" tax is imposed you will finally make up your mind. For your sake (and for other normies) you better hope their will still be a "nutjob" Right to defend your rights or you (& your descendants) might end up in the GULAG for not paying up their privilege tax and contributing to the wealth redistribution of the People's Soviet Socialist States of America.

Another great video on the Kavanaugh situation 
By VertigoPolitix





@Nilgiri @Psychic @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote @Metanoia

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## RabzonKhan

Nilgiri said:


> *How did the CNN polling do in nov 8th 2016?*
> 
> How are the polls that did a lot better in nov 8th 2016 doing now?:
> 
> http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/political_updates/prez_track_oct09
> 
> https://www.investors.com/politics/ibdtipp-poll-presidential-approval-direction-of-country/


Sorry, I know you won’t like the answer. CNN final poll was quite good, it gave Hillary 5-point leads over Trump, with margin of error for results based on the total sample plus or minus 3-point. In the final vote count, Hillary won with 2.1% points, in other words, the results were under the margin of error of the poll. *Link* 

I have noticed a pattern, Trump and his supporters only accept polls when they are favorable to their agenda, I really find it quite funny, our friend would have gladly accepted the results if it were the other way around, and I can prove it.

Meanwhile, there’s another new poll, Reuters/Ipsos generic congressional ballot shows that 50% of all likely voters say they would vote for Democratic candidate while about 38% say they would vote for the Republican candidate – a 12-point margin. The results are similar to the CNN polls.

This week’s Reuters/Ipsos generic congressional ballot shows that half of all likely voters say they would vote for the Democratic candidate (50%) while about two-fifths say they would vote for the Republican candidate (38%) – a 12-point margin. There is also a 7-point difference in the amount of Democrat likely voters (94%) and Republican likely voters (87%) who say they would vote for the candidate in their own party.

Trump’s approval rates currently stand at 39% amongst all Americans and 42% amongst all likely voters. *Link*

===============================

In his new book “How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them,” Yale professor Jason Stanley warns about the dangers of normalizing fascist politics, writing, “What normalization does is transform the morally extraordinary into the ordinary. It makes us able to tolerate what was once intolerable by making it seem as if this is the way things have always been.”


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> Sorry, I know you won’t like the answer. CNN final poll was quite good, it gave Hillary 5-point leads over Trump, with margin of error for results based on the total sample plus or minus 3-point. In the final vote count, Hillary won with 2.1% points, in other words, the results were under the margin of error of the poll. *Link*
> 
> I have noticed a pattern, Trump and his supporters only accept polls when they are favorable to their agenda, I really find it quite funny, our friend would have gladly accepted the results if it were the other way around, and I can prove it.
> 
> Meanwhile, there’s another new poll, Reuters/Ipsos generic congressional ballot shows that 50% of all likely voters say they would vote for Democratic candidate while about 38% say they would vote for the Republican candidate – a 12-point margin. The results are similar to the CNN polls.
> 
> This week’s Reuters/Ipsos generic congressional ballot shows that half of all likely voters say they would vote for the Democratic candidate (50%) while about two-fifths say they would vote for the Republican candidate (38%) – a 12-point margin. There is also a 7-point difference in the amount of Democrat likely voters (94%) and Republican likely voters (87%) who say they would vote for the candidate in their own party.
> 
> Trump’s approval rates currently stand at 39% amongst all Americans and 42% amongst all likely voters. *Link*
> 
> ===============================
> 
> In his new book “How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them,” Yale professor Jason Stanley warns about the dangers of normalizing fascist politics, writing, “What normalization does is transform the morally extraordinary into the ordinary. It makes us able to tolerate what was once intolerable by making it seem as if this is the way things have always been.”



Yale is a leftie communist infected hellhole. There is a reason why their "profs" get triggered by the likes (just to name a few) of Sam Harris, Dave Rubin and Eric Weinstein (people on traditional left now part of the intellectual dark web thanks to the angry leftie "progressive" mob getting their feelz hurt).

As for the polling, you can have as many slaves, zombies, dead people and general serfs in commiefornia et al show up in the libtard one party state rule of west coast....as you want. What matters is the swing districts and late (non polled people) turnout:

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018...ems-they-may-fall-short-of-winning-the-house/

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## SorryNotSorry

Nilgiri said:


> Watch the first half of this at least @SorryNotSorry when you got a little time, it basically ties in what you wrote earlier:


*trigger warning* Ben Shapiro speaks the truth. Logic is the best libtard repellent.

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## RabzonKhan

*The Nation’s Cartoonists On The Week In Politics





*

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## Gomig-21

Nilgiri said:


> You are a nice fella @Gomig-21 , but you will have to go through a never trumper neutral guy like Ben Shapiro first at the very least to have a proper discussion on this topic with me.



My friend, being a nice fella or a jerk shouldn't be a prerequisite to have any discussion, even in disagreement, while I do appreciate the sentiment and don't want to sound ungrateful. And neither is listening to Ben Shapiro with his 1000 words a second talking ability loool. I have my opinion based on what I read and see and hear and witness, not what someone else tells me. This is the problem with some of the right wing nuts jobs out there that come out and scream LEFT LIBERAL NUTJOBS! The first thing I say to that is people aught to know that a Muslim is ultra conservative by virtue of simply being a Muslim, and what we practice in all our daily lives as Muslims is predicated on what is put in simple terms as conservative values. Some of us are truer to those values than others, that's true. But that's not to say that anything on the right necessarily resembles conservative values, either, but it certainly leans a lot more to that side than the leftist liberals you despise so much. So the argument about being leftist, or liberal, or mainstream oriented it poopooed straight out the door and is based on much more sincere thoughts and values.

That being said, the last thing I'll say about the Kavanaugh ordeal is how insulting it was to hear people like Susan Collins (and the whole Republican party) look into the camera and tell us that she believed Dr. Christine Blasy Ford was assaulted, but doesn't believe it was Bret Kavnaugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO x 1,00000000000000000000000000000000000000! 
That's all I'm going to say.

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## Desert Fox

*Democrat Mob chases 
Police out of Portland, Attacks
Random cars*






@Nilgiri @Psychic @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote @Metanoia​

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## Gomig-21

Desert Fox said:


> *Democrat Mob chases
> Police out of Portland, Attacks
> Random cars*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Nilgiri @Psychic @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote @Metanoia​



They need to make special laws for these particular animals. Some of them get run over when they block roads, it's happened. And the interesting dynamic is how shy the cops were. They're apprehensive which creates this situation and the violent freaks smell that fear and take advantage of it, like rabid predators.

BTW, cruising down a river in Cape Ann and I came across this banner, thought it was hilarious. Not only the message, the fact that someone took the time to create it and hang it on these tennis courts. 
@RabzonKhan

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## Gomig-21

Anyone catch that disaster of an interview with Leslie Stall on 60 minutes? loool. For anyone who had any ounce of doubt as to the intelligence of the clown in chief, that was a confirmation! I've heard interviews of 3rd world bangup country dictators hack tribal junkies that had more brains than this guy lool. I think the affirmation that this guy is ANYTHING but a genius has been confirmed once again and for all.

They haven't released the entire interview yet so this is just a snippet lol. @RabzonKhan did you see this disaster? I actually delayed watching our huge Boston sports night just to catch this and it was worth it!

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## Desert Fox

LOL this is too funny. Rabid leftist lunatics vs. Trump supporters.

These Trump supporters are all _classical_ Liberals or Libertarians, but I have to say they kept their calm in the face of these rabid Marxist Democrats and managed to use their own shaming technique against them.







@Nilgiri @Psychic @Metanoia @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote​

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## RabzonKhan

There are 36 Governors’ races this year. Democrats will have to defend nine, Republican 26 and there is one independent governor. Democrats are expected to make big gains.

Here’s an interesting article on important gubernatorial races:
*
The 13 most important governor elections in 2018, briefly explained*

*With many GOP seats open, Democrats could gain a lot of ground in the 2018 gubernatorial elections.*
By Stavros Agorakis and Dylan Scott Oct 15, 2018


Republicans currently hold an astonishing two-thirds of the governors’ mansions across the country, giving the GOP an overwhelming advantage in controlling state governments. This year, 26 of those seats are on the ballot.

Forecasts from leading election watchers show about 18 of the most competitive governor races in the 2018 midterm elections are currently Republican-held seats. Democrats finally have a lot of chances to regain some ground.

Beyond the usual issues, there’s one other big reason to pay attention to governors this year: Governors who are elected in 2018 will almost all still be in office in 2021, when the next round of congressional redistricting starts. In many states, governors will wield a veto pen over the new House and state legislative maps.

As in all elections this year, Donald Trump will loom large over the gubernatorial campaigns. In some major races, like Florida, his handpicked candidate is running up against an upstart Democrat who is betting on a big blue wave. Democrats are polling strongly even in states like Ohio, which Trump won by 8 points.

A few seem sure to flip: Republican Gov. Bruce Rauner in Illinois, for example, is considered all but a goner; Democrat J.B. Pritzker has a 16-point lead in the polls, on average. In Michigan, Democratic nominee Gretchen Whitmer has established an impressive 9-point lead in the polling over her Republican opponent to replace the outgoing, unpopular GOP Gov. Rick Snyder.

But a dozen or more other races look like they could go either way. Here they are: 2018’s most competitive gubernatorial races, ranked by the current polling average, according to Real Clear Politics. *Read more*



Gomig-21 said:


> Anyone catch that disaster of an interview with Leslie Stall on 60 minutes? loool. For anyone who had any ounce of doubt as to the intelligence of the clown in chief, that was a confirmation! I've heard interviews of 3rd world bangup country dictators hack tribal junkies that had more brains than this guy lool. I think the affirmation that this guy is ANYTHING but a genius has been confirmed once again and for all.
> 
> They haven't released the entire interview yet so this is just a snippet lol. @RabzonKhan did you see this disaster? I actually delayed watching our huge Boston sports night just to catch this and it was worth it!


Yes, I tried to watch it, but it was too much, I gave up, and I admit, he definitely “qualify as not smart, but genius…… and a very stable genius at that!” 

I’m sure you know what I mean.

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## RabzonKhan

Trump's friend is at it again!

*DHS finds increasing attempts to hack U.S. election systems ahead of midterms *

Pete Williams and Ken Dilanian 
23 hrs ago

WASHINGTON — The Department of Homeland Security says it's working to identify who — or what — is behind an increasing number of attempted cyber attacks on U.S. election databases ahead of next month's midterms.


"We are aware of a growing volume of cyber activity targeting election infrastructure in 2018," the department's Cyber Mission Center said in an intelligence assessment issued last week and obtained by NBC News. "Numerous actors are regularly targeting election infrastructure, likely for different purposes, including to cause disruptive effects, steal sensitive data, and undermine confidence in the election."

The assessment said the federal government does not know who is behind the attacks, but it said all potential intrusions were either prevented or mitigated.

The techniques used by the hackers are available to nation-state and non-state hackers alike, DHS said, including malicious e-mails that appear to be legitimate and denial of service attacks. The attempted hacks have been intensifying since April and were detected as recently as early October.

For example, the assessment said, three different methods were used in late August in an attempt to get access to Vermont's online voter registration database, but they were unsuccessful.

Vermont Secretary of State Jim Condos confirmed that account, which had not been previously reported, describing it Monday as the kind of attempted hack that states face every day.

"The good news is that our defenses are robust, were in place, and did their job," he said in a telephone interview.

The voter registration list is backed up every day, Condos added, "so if it were somehow to be breached, we would just go back 24 hours and reset it. We'd only lose one day's worth. And we also have same-day voter resignation, which means that no one would be denied on election day."

*As for attempts by foreign governments to influence the U.S. political environment, the intelligence bulletin said Russia and China remain active, though in different ways. Russia attempts to spread disinformation with hackers posing as Americans, while China is engaged in more conventional propaganda efforts.

Read more*




Nilgiri said:


> Yale is a leftie communist infected hellhole. There is a reason why their "profs" get triggered by the likes (just to name a few) of Sam Harris, Dave Rubin and Eric Weinstein (people on traditional left now part of the intellectual dark web thanks to the angry leftie "progressive" mob getting their feelz hurt).
> 
> As for the polling, you can have as many slaves, zombies, dead people and general serfs in commiefornia et al show up in the libtard one party state rule of west coast....as you want. What matters is the swing districts and late (non polled people) turnout:
> 
> https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018...ems-they-may-fall-short-of-winning-the-house/


See, I told you, you won’t like the answer  “Commiefornia”, that’s funny, you can rant as much as you want, but the fact is that California is the richest state and is now the world’s fifth largest economy, according to the data released by the Trump administration’s US Department of Commerce. Its 2017 Gross State Product was $2.747 trillion. California trails only Germany ($ 3.685 trillion), Japan ($4.872 trillion), China ($12.0153 trillion) and the United States ($16.644 trillion without California) among the world’s leading economies.

You have been missed, what did you do this time? Take it easy man, life is too short 



Desert Fox said:


> *Democrat Mob chases
> Police out of Portland, Attacks
> Random cars*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Nilgiri @Psychic @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote @Metanoia​


Nice try, Antifa is an anarchist terrorist organization, which has nothing to do with the Democrat party.

Democrat leader Nancy Pelosi in the past has strongly condemned them.

Here's a statement:

*Pelosi Statement Condemning Antifa Violence in Berkeley*

San Francisco — Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi released the following statement denouncing the violent protests carried out this weekend in Berkeley, California:

“Our democracy has no room for inciting violence or endangering the public, no matter the ideology of those who commit such acts. The violent actions of people calling themselves antifa in Berkeley this weekend deserve unequivocal condemnation, and the perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted.

“In California, as across all of our great nation, we have deep reverence for the Constitutional right to peaceful dissent and free speech. Non-violence is fundamental to that right. Let us use this sad event to reaffirm that we must never fight hate with hate, and to remember the values of peace, openness and justice that represent the best of America.” *Source*

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## F-22Raptor

Only 3 more weeks until the midterms!


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> which has nothing to do with the Democrat party.


They don't attack Democrats and have endorsed Democratic candidates and members of Democrat party like Bernie Sanders and Occasio Cortez, both of whom are open Communists and Socialists.

Here's serving Democrat politician Keith Ellison with Antifa handbook:






​https://nypost.com/2018/01/04/keith-ellison-invites-antifa-to-the-party/

_"That’s not a good look for a party that needs to appeal to moderates to win back a majority in the House. A better message would be one that denounces violence and reaffirms free speech, something like what Pelosi shared back in August._

_*When a Trump supporter was curb stomped by an antifa gang* on a sunny California Sunday at Berkeley, Pelosi came down hard. Pelosi demanded the self-styled "anti-fascists" “be arrested and prosecuted.” Everyone liked that statement, even conservatives who hate to praise the Democrat. *But after a grinning Ellison decided to plug the group, all that goodwill is gone*."_

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/democrats-cant-make-up-their-mind-on-antifa


Pelosi is a closet supporter of these Communist street thugs like all Democrats are (as Hillary Clinton recently proved with her veiled threat), she's just concerned about her party's public image, whereas our gud ol' boi Keith couldn't conceal his honesty.

AntiFa are good for conservatives in America, they expose the true ugly face of DemonRats, I mean Democrats, because smashing property of random people and bashing their heads with bike locks pushes the center further "Right". This is good. Looking forward to another four years of Trump, and hopefully more AntiFa antics.











@Nilgiri @Psychic @Metanoia​

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## RabzonKhan

I like this guy, he’s tough, retired major Richard Ojeda is a very interesting Democratic candidate running for 3rd Congressional District of West Virginia Trump won by 49% points. In 2016 elections he voted for Trump, but now he says Trump has failed to deliver on his promises. Recently Trump held a rally in the district for Ojeda’s Republican opponent and called Ojeda “the total wacko”. Ojeda shot back: “Right now it seems that it’s a circus. It’s all about Twitter. Dude, you’re the President. Don’t worry about that. Focus on elevating this country”.

Here are two of his most hard-hitting ads:











@Gomig-21 watch the ads, my friend, Democrats have far better chance of winning red districts with candidates like Ojeda.



=========================================


Note: the case is not related to 2016 election, but 2018 midterm election and she was not charged by the Mueller investigation, in fact, she was charged by Justice Department, Dir of National intelligence, FBI, and the Department of Homeland Security. They released a joint statement expressing concern about foreign interference in US elections by Russia, China and Iran to “undermine confidence in democratic institutions and influence public sentiment and government policies, they warned these activities also may seek to influence voter perception and decision making in the 2018 and 2020 US elections”.

But I doubt Trump will do anything substantial against Russia.

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> @Gomig-21 watch the ads, my friend, Democrats have far better chance of winning red districts with candidates like Ojeda.



These are the type of guys whom I would lean more towards as would the regular kinda guys like myself. Someone who's been in the military, who's had his share of hardships who has a young family and who has strong, principles that align with the same ones as us majority. Hope he wins, especially against that opponent of his. I'd like to see the Dems take the house and impeach Kavanaugh but more importantly, perhaps the divisiveness will decrease a little bit, and the brutal bickering and despicable partisanship that was on display a few weeks ago will never happen again. Plus someone needs to knock that turtle Mitch McConnell in the mouth and shut his *** up! Oh I can't stand that old man who's completely out of touch with reality and to stop him from pushing the next supreme court nominee before the end of this disastrous presidency. He fought Obama from doing that but now he wants to do it with the Republican majority, hypocrisy much? 



RabzonKhan said:


> Note: the case is not related to 2016 election, but 2018 midterm election and she was not charged by the Mueller investigation, in fact, she was charged by Justice Department, Dir of National intelligence, FBI, and the Department of Homeland Security. They released a joint statement expressing concern about foreign interference in US elections by Russia, China and Iran to “undermine confidence in democratic institutions and influence public sentiment and government policies, they warned these activities also may seek to influence voter perception and decision making in the 2018 and 2020 US elections”.
> 
> But I doubt Trump will do anything substantial against Russia.



Tremendous. Whether the Trump campaign was or wasn't involve in 2016 isn't so much the danger at this point. The danger is the actual meddling since it cannot be denied anymore, no matter who jumps up and down and cries. Yes, it's a fact and it is a fact that Russia was HEAVILY involved and the Justice Department has its work cut out for it. This will not be easy to curb as it falls right in between that fine line of what's free speech as well as freedom of the press. And add that to social media which is a super difficult web tangle to penetrate and weed out all the culprits. All these factors put together and you realize how big of a problem this meddling thing is.

Then when we find out from Robert Mueller (which BTW sound like it will be coming very soon but probably after the primaries) that the clown in chief was involved and did know about it, get ready for the fireworks!

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## RabzonKhan

Trump has unexpectedly announced that he wants new middle-class tax cut of about 10%, though, no one even in his own party has heard of it, goodness, this man will say anything to win elections, liar.

But now one thing has become crystal clear, the Democrats were 100% right for criticizing his massive tax cuts, which they rightly pointed out was mainly for the filthy rich and the corporations. Trump has realized that his tax cuts are not resonating with the voters like he had hoped, so now he pulls this middle-class tax cuts from nowhere. But the scary part is his proposal came a week after his Treasury Department announced that U.S. budget deficit jumped to $779 billion in the full fiscal year. Clearly, the result of Trump’s massive tax cuts, increase spending and interest payments on the national debt.

Let’s not forget, Trump and his Republican party were falsely claiming before the massive tax cuts that the tax cuts will pay for themselves. Republican Senate leader McConnell claimed that “I not only don’t think it will increase the deficit, I think it will be beyond revenue neutral. In other words, I think it will produce more than enough to fill that gap.” But last week in an interview with the Bloomberg TV he blamed the budget deficit on the Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare, in other words, first they gave a massive tax break to the filthy rich and now they want to cut social programs that help disabled, elderly, veterans and the poor. 

I think McConnell has given a mid-term election gift to the Democrats, hopefully they will take full advantage of it and inform the people of Republicans dangerous agenda.


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## RabzonKhan

From 'Lyin' Ted' To 'Beautiful Ted:' Trump was in Texas to Stump for Cruz. Typical politician! 









Sorry for the late response, let me break it down one by one:



Desert Fox said:


> They don't attack Democrats


They also never used to attack Republican rallies, but after 2016 they started attacking Trump rallies, which were attended by white supremacists.



> and have endorsed Democratic candidates and members of Democrat party like Bernie Sanders and Occasio Cortez, both of whom are open Communists and Socialists.


I don’t know what endorsements you’re talking about? Since Antifa does not even have an organization with an actual head and hierarchical structure.

I don’t know much about Cortez, but Bernie Sanders has condemned their actions:

*Sanders slams UC Berkeley is anti-free speech Zealots: *

“it’s a sign of intellectual weakness” “To me, it’s a sign of intellectual weakness,” he said. “If you can’t ask Ann Coulter in a polite way questions which expose the weakness of her arguments, if all you can do is boo, or shut her down, or prevent her from coming, what does that tell the world?”

“What are you afraid of ? her ideas? Ask her the hard questions,” he concluded. “Confront her intellectually. Booing people down, or intimidating people, or shutting down events, I don’t think that that works in any way.” *Source*

BTY, Bernie Sanders may be a socialist, but definitely he is not a Communist.



> Here's serving Democrat politician Keith Ellison with Antifa handbook:


I think the right-wing media, Republicans and Trump supporters made a mountain out of a molehill. Keith Ellison is a provocateur he knew what reaction his tweet will generate and that’s exactly what happened. After the controversy, his spokesman Karthik Ganapathy said Ellison has not read the book but has exposed nonviolence throughout his career.

Actually the book is a detailed survey of full history of anti-fascist movements throughout the world, from its origins in Germany to the present day and is the first transnational history of postwar anti-fascism in English. It was written by historian and former occupy Wall Street organizer Mark Bray.

Keith Ellison, just like Bernie and Pelosi has in the past criticize antifa’s violent tactics:

“but the solution to bad speech is good speech, the solution to bad speech is more speech”. *Source*

On the other hand, it’s a fact, Trump has openly defended and courted white racists. During the 2016 campaign he retweeted many of their tweets. And almost all white racists from KKK, neo-Nazis, to Altright not only endorse him, but openly campaigned for him.



> AntiFa are good for conservatives in America, they expose the true ugly face of DemonRats, I mean Democrats, because smashing property of random people and bashing their heads with bike locks pushes the center further "Right". This is good. Looking forward to another four years of Trump, and hopefully more AntiFa antics


Antifascista are a bunch of idiots they are giving an excuse to the right-wing to play victim, when in fact it is the right-wing supremacists who are the real violent terrorists.​


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## maximuswarrior

LMAO

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## RabzonKhan

*Political Cartoons*

*



*


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## RabzonKhan

Jordan Klepper is a genius! Watch him how he fools Trump supporters and the idiots don’t even realize it. Super hilarious, no wonder they voted for Trump. 






*


Democrats suddenly look strong again in the Midwest
*
*The Midwest’s central role in the 2018 midterms, explained.*
By Dylan Scott@dylanlscottdylan.scott@vox.com Updated Oct 25, 2018, 2:00pm EDT

Donald Trump shocked election watchers on November 8, 2016, by winning states across the Midwest — states that were supposed to be part of Hillary Clinton’s “blue wall.” This year, Democrats have an enormous opportunity to start regaining ground in those same states.

Political pundits have wondered if Trump’s wins in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Ohio represented a realignment of American politics for good. Republicans in some of those states dreamed of turning them permanently red with big wins in the 2018 midterms.

*But in the weeks before Election Day 2018, Democrats are poised for huge wins across the Midwest, a resurgence that seemed unimaginable just two years ago.*

Incumbent senators in Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylvania seem assured of reelection. Democratic Sen. Tammy Baldwin, a coveted target for Republicans, is leading by 10 points in Wisconsin, where Republican Gov. Scott Walker could finally lose a reelection campaign. And in Ohio and Iowa, states Trump won handily, Democratic candidates for governor have a narrow advantage in the polls.

Of course, polls do not guarantee election victories. After all, Democrats were polling well in the Midwest in 2016, too, before an undetected Trump wave won him the White House. All it would take is a small polling error, which happens all the time, to swing many of these races to Republicans once the votes are counted.

Still, no one factor explains this apparent Democratic strength. The minority party typically performs well in midterm elections. Democrats have particularly strong incumbents in Ohio and Pennsylvania. The Republican brand is tarnished in Michigan and Ohio over some state-specific scandals. But those variables only explain so much. Run-of-the-mill Democrats have big leads in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan.

*Rather, these states have the right ingredients for a blue wave in 2018. Suburban, mostly white women seem to be drifting toward Democrats. Working-class whites, historically Democratic voters who broke for Trump, show signs of returning to their economically left-leaning roots. Strong black turnout would deepen the Democratic advantage.*

The omens are good, and Democrats have reason to hope that 2016 was just an aberration. But, until the election returns come in, it is still only a hope.

*The obvious reason Democrats suddenly look strong in the Midwest*
It is a fact of American politics that voters seem to strive for balance: One party wins the White House in presidential years, and then the other party makes gains in the midterms two years later.

To some extent, the apparent swing in the Midwest simply follows that history. Wisconsin elected Walker governor two years after voting for Barack Obama. Ohio elected Democrat Dick Celeste governor two years after voting for Ronald Reagan. Voters do seem to like a partisan equilibrium.

“The Midwest is the most consistently competitive region of the United States, and it oscillates between the two parties,” Kyle Kondik, who follows elections at the University of Virginia’s Center for Politics and wrote a book on Ohio politics, told me. “Trump’s election may suggest a longer-term realignment toward Republicans given how white the Midwest is, but for the time being it remains hard to classify as being solidly in either camp.”

Some Democratic gains in the Midwest in 2018 were to be expected. Democrats look dominant in the Illinois governor’s race and in Minnesota’s Senate and governor elections, poised to score important victories in the bluest Midwestern states.

But there seems to be more happening than history repeating and blue-leaning states staying blue, according to Democratic and Republican operatives across the region. Democrats aren’t just shoring up the elections they were already expected to take. They also have a chance to hold onto Joe Donnelly’s Indiana Senate seat, in the reddest state in the Midwest region.

*The path to a big Democratic wave in the Midwest in 2018 runs through three voting blocs: Suburban Republican-leaning women who don’t like Trump, the white working-class Democrats who voted for the president, and black voters who are less likely to vote in off-year elections.*

*Democrats need to win back some Obama-Trump voters in 2018*
The difficulty of the Democratic task can’t be overstated.

*Take Ohio. In 46 of Ohio’s 88 counties, Barack Obama got at least 40 percent of the vote. Hillary Clinton hit that floor of 40 percent in just 13 counties. Or look at it this way: Obama lost the 50 smallest counties by 180,000 votes; Clinton lost them by 400,000 votes. 
Read more*

*
Breaking News*
*
1 person in custody related to the 12 bomb-like packages, Department Of Justice says
*
Ken Alltucker,Kevin Johnson and Kevin McCoy, USA TODAYPublished 8:48 a.m. ET Oct. 26, 2018 | Updated 11:13 a.m. ET Oct. 26, 2018

One person is in custody in connection with a sweeping investigation of the 12 bomb-like devices addressed to prominent Democrats, the Department of Justice said. *Read more*


----------



## RabzonKhan

What a slap on the faces of pathetic Trump supporters who have spent the last few days spreading all kinds of BS conspiracy theories, of course, without any evidence, that it was a Democrat sponsored false flag operation to win the mid-term elections. But now we all know the Mail bomber is a hardcore Trump supporter!

Shamelessly since 2015 Trump has been using hateful rhetoric to fire up his supporters and even at times has called for violence against his opponents. Looks like the terrorist took Trump’s words to heart.



*Package bomb suspect arrested, charged with 5 federal crimes - live updates
*
A suspect was arrested in the investigation of bombs sent to prominent Democrats and critics of President Trump, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced Friday. FBI Director Chris Wray identified the suspect as Cesar Sayoc.

Sayoc was charged with five federal crimes, Sessions said during a nationally televised press conference. Sessions had said Sayoc faced up to 58 years in prison, but a Justice Department spokesperson later corrected the number to 48 years.

Several law enforcement sources told CBS News that Sayoc was born in 1962. Records show that his full name is Cesar Altieri Sayoc and that he appears to have a criminal history in Broward County, Florida.

A fingerprint was uncovered from a package bomb sent to Democratic Rep. Maxine Waters, Wray said. The print was then connected to Sayoc.

Wray also said there was a possible DNA connection relating to one of Sayoc's past arrests. A law enforcement source had said that DNA evidence on one of the devices played a part in leading investigators to the suspect, CBS News senior investigative producer Pat Milton reported. 




Cesar Altieri Sayoc is seen in a police booking photo from August 2015.





A picture believed to be of a van seized by authorities in the package bomb investigation shows a sticker with a target around former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's face. The picture was taken on an earlier date before authorities seized the van late Friday morning.

Other stickers show President Trump and Vice President Mike Pence giving the thumbs-up sign. Another sticker read "CNN sucks" in all capital letters.

The van was taken to the FBI's field office in Miramar, Florida. *Read more*


Terrorist at Trump rally:







*Hear What President Donald Trump Said During Campaign Rally Attended By Bomb Suspect:*


----------



## Desert Fox

*'How to' Guide When Dealing with Pipe Bombs, CNN Style (LOL)*​

Step one:

When receiving a suspicious package in the mail, do not call the authorities, just open it.


Step two

After opening the suspicious package and recognizing it as a pipe bomb, *do not clear the area,* but take pictures of it and upload it to Twitter


Step three:

Concoct a story to blame Trump and his supporters.


Step four:

*Finally*, call the authorities and clear the area 

#CNNisFakeNews





@Nilgiri @Psychic @Metanoia

 those are some conveniently fresh stickers, almost like they were put on that van yesterday. No wear and tear from weather (rain, wind, sunshine, dirt etc.). I can even see the border of each individual sticker LOL

Conveniently a Trump "supporter" would do this right before the midterm elections when Democrats are doing sh!tty because they just are. This story is completely believable I must say, *as believable as Saddam Hussain's mythical WMD's* 






With that much blatant Trump support making his car stick out like a sore thumb somehow it went unscathed by AntiFa? 

Unlike these guys even with their tiny Trump stickers got their cars smashed by Democrat supporting AntiFa communist trash:

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> They also never used to attack Republican rallies, but after 2016 they started attacking Trump rallies, _which were attended by white supremacists._


Eventhough that's not true, still doesn't give them the right to attack people for attending a political rally. Surely you aren't justifying violence?



RabzonKhan said:


> Bernie Sanders may be a socialist, but definitely he is not a Communist


David Duke may be a White Nationalist, but definitely not a White supremacist


Or:

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi may be in ISIS, but definitely not in al-Qaeda.

You don't sound too good my friend.


RabzonKhan said:


> I think the right-wing media, Republicans and Trump supporters made a mountain out of a molehill.


You mean they did what Democrats have been doing this whole time? 







RabzonKhan said:


> Keith Ellison is a provocateur he knew what reaction his tweet will generate and *that’s exactly what happened.*


Except that's not exactly what happened. Republicans didn't go out and smash people's cars, like Democrats do.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...o-muslim-immigrant-may-cost-70-000-in-damages






RabzonKhan said:


> Keith Ellison is a provocateur


You wouldn't be saying the same if a serving Republican posed with Mein Kampf, so spare us the excuses.

AntiFa is a recognized domestic terrorist group by the state department and Keith Ellison and other Democrats covertly and overtly endorse/support them



RabzonKhan said:


> After the controversy, his spokesman Karthik Ganapathy said Ellison has not read the book but has exposed nonviolence throughout his career.


Lol that's damage control. They realized they screwed up big time. Too late for that.



RabzonKhan said:


> Actually the book is a detailed survey of full history of anti-fascist movements throughout the world, from its origins in Germany to the present day and is the first transnational history of postwar anti-fascism in English. It was written by historian and former occupy Wall Street organizer Mark Bray.


I would love to see you try equally hard to defend a book titled "Nazi Handbook".

Come on dude, no shame in admitting that Keith Ellison royally screwed the Democrat party's image by posing with a book about a domestic terrorist organization.




​


RabzonKhan said:


> Trump has openly defended and courted white racists


No he hasn't. Maybe he said some things out of ignorance, but so has every other president, and this only proves Trump is a human being.

But you won't see Trump posing with books written for domestic terrorist organizations, that much I can assure you.



RabzonKhan said:


> Antifascista are a bunch of idiots


This much we can agree. They got Hitler elected in 1933 and they got Trump elected in 2016, and no Trump is not "literally Hitler". It takes a idiot to hand the victory to their enemy, and AntiFa are doing a fine job of screwing the Democrat party's reputation with the average folks, no matter how hard the media tries to cover for them or the pathetically organized false flag's to discredit Trump and his supporters 

@Nilgiri @Psychic @Metanoia

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## Desert Fox

*Bombs are Hoaxes, Not Intended to Explode
says Expert*





​*A local bomb expert tells us he's fairly confident that the bombs sent coast-to-coast are hoax devices.*

Retired Capt. Kelly Mayer believes the bomber will be identified very soon.

Mayer retired after 23 years on the job as an FBI-certified bomb technician and firefighter.

“It’s disturbing, clearly someone has a political aim,” Mayer said. “They have a grievance and they’re a dangerous person.”

But from the photos and X-rays that have been released so far*, particularly with the one sent to CNN, he’s “fairly confident that they’re hoax devices."*

*That’s because the devices are missing two key components to make it a true explosive device: an external battery and an initiator to trigger the explosion.
*
https://www.wsaz.com/content/news/L...mbs-are-hoax-explosive-devices-498583471.html


Lol even fake news CNN forced to admit bombs were hoaxes intended to achieve a political agenda.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/26/politics/bombs-clinton-obama-waters-biden/index.html

_"*Outside experts have pointed to the lack of a triggering mechanism, suggesting they were never meant to explode."*_

_"“*Whoever is doing this is just trying to elicit a fear or disrupt something*,” said Ryan Morris, founder of Tripwire Operations Group, a company that provides explosives training to law enforcement and military officials. He had examined images of the devices sent to Soros and to CNN’s New York offices."_

Yes, DemonRats know they're going to get trashed in the midterm elections so they resort to lowlife tactics like this.

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## Gomig-21

maximuswarrior said:


> LMAO



"Further south than South America" loool. Not surprised since that one time he said "we just came from the Middle East" when he was in Israel after his famous visit to Saudi Arabia.  That was one of many of those epic Trump moments.

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## Desert Fox

Lol some Political memes worth contemplating

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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


>


Didn't this guy get the memo? He needs to check his "White heterosexual cisgender-male privilege".

No more White male patriarchy will be allowed to hold leadership positions within the _People's Democratic Socialist Party_.




​
The future of the Democrat Party belongs to empowered women of color like Alexandra Ocasio Cortez who will finally smash the evil White male patriarchy plaguing America since the days of George Washington who was literally a racist slave owner (God, i can't wait till they replace his face on the dollar bill with a Black tranny).

Alexandra Ocasio Cortes is the future of the Democratic _Soviet Socialist_ Party of America 

She has an AWESOME platform for further demolishing her party's image which is already increasingly viewed as the party of left-wing lunatics who play identity politics and are proposing "free" stuff (nothing is for free, everything comes at a cost).


Meet The Future of the Democrat Party: Alexandra 
Ocasio Cortes​




_"Who is Alexandria Ocasio Cortez? Well, a 28 year old millennial and a member of Democratic Socialists of America. She ran on a communist platform of guaranteed housing and jobs for everyone, as per Karl Marx’s immortal words: “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”. Cortez also promised to abolish ICE, being a hardcore pro-open borders globalist, together with guaranteeing free healthcare and free education for all, because what the heck? We’re all friends here, right? Bernie Sanders taught her good, didn’t he? Free this, free that, until other people’s money run out and you end up hunting rats with bows and arrows, Venezuela style."_









@Nilgiri @Psychic @Metanoia

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## Desert Fox

*Facts:*
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/you...thtub-interview-obama-today/story?id=28398889

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## Desert Fox

Recently more than a thousand Black Trump supporters marched to Washington DC and visited the White House at the invitation of President Trump.

For some reason #FakeNewsMedia didn't cover this event, because _"orange man bad"_, _"he be nazi and white supremist".

_





@Nilgiri @Psychic @Metanoia @LeGenD​

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## Desert Fox

All lives matter to Liberals, except when they can't be used as tools of political propaganda against President Trump and his supporters, _#LiberalHypocrites_

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

It looks like GOP will sweep House and Senate on November 8. Unemployment is lowest since 1969. Only 3.7%. There is no incentive for people to vote Democrats.

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## RabzonKhan

Wow, In a new poll Democrats have a 17 point lead over the Republican's. 

In 2016 presidential election, USC Dornsife/Los Angeles Times polls used to be favourite of Trump and his supporters. I know it most probably is a outlier, But I'm having fun. 






*Source*


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RabzonKhan said:


> Wow, In a new poll Democrats have a 17 point lead over the Republican's.
> 
> In 2016 presidential election, USC Dornsife/Los Angeles Times polls used to be favourite of Trump and his supporters. I know it most probably is a outlier, But I'm having fun.
> 
> View attachment 510999
> 
> 
> *Source*



Seems not accurate. Or GOP voters don't answers phones.

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## RabzonKhan

@Desert Fox, today, I don't have the time to respond, I'll be back tomorrow.

Cheers!


----------



## Desert Fox

undertakerwwefan said:


> It looks like GOP will sweep House and Senate on November 8. Unemployment is lowest since 1969. Only 3.7%. There is no incentive for people to vote Democrats.


Exactly! What alternative are the Dems offering? They have none. They have no platform that appeals to the working class Americans or to the middle class.

And no, tranny bathrooms and the right of faggots to parade dildos in public does not appeal to the working class folks who are conservatives in their outlook.

Neither does open border and loose immigration policies appeal to the working class.

All the Dems have left to offer is "free" stuff , a rehash of Lenin's promise of "peace, bread and land" only today's leftists mantra is "free universal healthcare, free universal housing, free universal income, etc.....".

The average working class Joe know's nothings for free because he's the one footing the bill.



undertakerwwefan said:


> Seems not accurate. Or GOP voters don't answers phones.


Most people who vote Trump will not display their support in public or make it known, because Democrat sanctioned political violence will commence against them (eg, boycotting their employer/business, AtiFa attacks, death threats, loss of employment, etc..).

@RabzonKhan still believing the polls I see 



RabzonKhan said:


> Wow, In a new poll Democrats have a 17 point lead over the Republican's.
> 
> In 2016 presidential election, USC Dornsife/Los Angeles Times polls used to be favourite of Trump and his supporters. I know it most probably is a outlier, But I'm having fun.
> 
> View attachment 510999
> 
> 
> *Source*


Bro, you have too much faith in these polls. Forgot 2016 already? 















Anyhow, can't wait for the _Crimson Tide_ (pun intended, if anyone gets the ironical hint )





@Psychic @Nilgiri @Metanoia @LeGenD

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## Desert Fox



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## Desert Fox

Another high-IQ talented mind from the Left 






@Nilgiri @Psychic @LeGenD @Hamartia Antidote​

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## Hamartia Antidote

Desert Fox said:


> Another high-IQ talented mind from the Left
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Nilgiri @Psychic @LeGenD @Hamartia Antidote​



I already saw it. The guy is pulling stuff out of the air without naming names to back it up. “US companies did this that and the the other” which “companies”?

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## Desert Fox

Hamartia Antidote said:


> I already saw it. The guy is pulling stuff out of the air without naming names to back it up. “US companies did this that and the the other” which “companies”?


And which war?  he mentions wars in Honduras but when asked which war he keeps trying to dodge the question

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## Hamartia Antidote

Desert Fox said:


> And which war?  he mentions wars in Honduras but when asked which war he keeps trying to dodge the question



He might as well be saying people from Honduras should be allowed in because of the Syrian War.

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## maximuswarrior

A bloodbath is on its way. The mid term elections are bitter and both camps are at boiling temperature. The Americans are divided. All one has to do is watch American media and the social media to get a good taste of what is in its way.


----------



## Desert Fox

Hamartia Antidote said:


> He might as well be saying people from Honduras should be allowed in because of the Syrian War.


Oh right, Hondurans fleeing the Syrian civil war in central America. Assad and those pesky Russians need to stop gassing those Hondurans.


----------



## Desert Fox

*Liberal "comedian" Jon Stewart Complains
"Trump's Hurting Journalists' Ego" *​




















@Nilgiri @Psychic @LeGenD @Metanoia @Hamartia Antidote​

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## Desert Fox

*When an Attempted Trashing of Trump goes wrong *​
Idiot Democrat politician makes demeaning comments about his Indian and Black colleagues on stage in a failed attempt to smear Trump and his supporters

_"He's an Indian, but he does an amazing job"

"She's an African American, but she does an amazing job"_

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## RabzonKhan

There goes Trump’s BS propaganda!  He has been trying very hard to sell BS propaganda against the Democrats, calling them a party of mobs overtaken by socialists and communists.

In fact, when it comes to violence, a new poll by NBC News/Marist shows the national mood. When specifically asked: 

*About the tone in politics during Trump Presidency*

*Gotten Worse 75%

Stayed The Same 16%

Improved 7%

When given choices whom to blame for lack of civility in politics

Trump 42%

The Media 28%

Democrats 18% 
Source*

Not only the American public blames the clown for violence, but even the Wall Street, Real Estate and Insurance sector has had enough of him, they are now supporting Democrats more than his party. I’m loving it! 

*Wall Street is backing Democrats for the first time in a decade*

There's still a week to go before the midterm elections, but Wall Street has already voted -- with its campaign contributions. 

The securities and finance industry has backed Democratic congressional candidates 63 percent to 37 percent, according to data compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics. Democratic candidates and political action committees have received $56.8 million, compared to Republicans' $33.4 million. (The data cover the current electoral cycle through Sept. 30.)

It's the first time in a decade that the securities industry has given more to Democrats than Republicans. The broader sector of finance, insurance and real estate is following a similar pattern. Its firms have given $174 million to Democratic candidates against $157 million to Republicans. *Read more*


----------



## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> Eventhough that's not true, still doesn't give them the right to attack people for attending a political rally. Surely you aren't justifying violence?


To my best of knowledge antifa never used to attack Republicans rallies, but if you think it’s not true, then please go ahead, proved be wrong?

No, I was not trying to justify violence, I am a firm believer in first Amendment, throwing rocks, setting fire to cars or using any kind of violence to stop someone (no matter how pathetic they may be) from holding political rally is totally unjustified and wrong, period.




> David Duke may be a White Nationalist, but definitely not a White supremacist
> 
> 
> Or:
> 
> Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi may be in ISIS, but definitely not in al-Qaeda.
> 
> You don't sound too good my friend.


Before I say anything, I would like to make one thing clear, I’m a proud liberal capitalist not a socialist.

I don’t know why you think there is no difference between democratic socialist and communist?

In Bernie Sanders own words:

Senator Bernie Sanders on Democratic Socialism in the United States.
So, the next time you hear me attacked as a socialist, remember this:
During a speech at Georgetown University, “I don’t believe government should take over the grocery store down the street or own the means of production,” he said, thus disavowing the strict Marxist definition of socialism with a dose of grandfatherly humor. “But I do believe that the middle class and the working families who produce the wealth of America deserve a decent standard of living and that their incomes should go up, not down. I do believe in private companies that thrive and invest and grow in America, companies that create jobs here, rather than companies that are shutting down in America and increasing their profits by exploiting low-wage labor abroad.”

Bernie also give the example of FDR: And, by the way, almost everything he proposed was called “socialist.” Social Security, which transformed life for the elderly in this country was “socialist.” The concept of the “minimum wage” was seen as a radical intrusion into the marketplace and was described as “socialist.” Unemployment insurance, abolishing child labor, the 40-hour work week, collective bargaining, strong banking regulations, deposit insurance, and job programs that put millions of people to work were all described, in one way or another, as “socialist.” Yet, these programs have become the fabric of our nation and the foundation of the middle class.

Thirty years later, in the 1960s, President Johnson passed Medicare and Medicaid to provide health care to millions of senior citizens and families with children, persons with disabilities and some of the most vulnerable people in this county. Once again these vitally important programs were derided by the right wing as socialist programs that were a threat to our American way of life.









> You wouldn't be saying the same if a serving Republican posed with Mein Kampf, so spare us the excuses.
> 
> AntiFa is a recognized domestic terrorist group by the state department and Keith Ellison and other Democrats covertly and overtly endorse/support them
> 
> Lol that's damage control. They realized they screwed up big time. Too late for that.
> 
> I would love to see you try equally hard to defend a book titled "Nazi Handbook".
> 
> Come on dude, no shame in admitting that Keith Ellison royally screwed the Democrat party's image by posing with a book about a domestic terrorist organization.



Look, the book is not “about a domestic terrorist organization”, I already tried to explain it in
my previous post, but I'll try again. Here is an example:

Mein Kampf (“My Struggle”) is a political manifesto written by Adolf Hitler.




The Nazis - A Warning from History tells the powerfully gripping story of the rise and fall of the Third Reich.





Both books are about Nazism, but the difference is one promotes Nazism the other tells the history of Nazism. The book Antifa The antifascist handbook tells the history of antifa movements from around the world. Does that make any sense to you? If not, then let me ask you, since you have rejected his spokesman’s clarification and Ellison’s criticism of antifa, can you show any statements from Ellison supporting antifa violence or even a dog whistle? And if you can, I’ll be more than happy to condemn him.



> No he hasn't. Maybe he said some things out of ignorance, but so has every other president, and this only proves Trump is a human being.





> But you won't see Trump posing with books written for domestic terrorist organizations, that much I can assure you.


Trump is a racist bigot and that is a fact. Here is a small sample:

When he was running his father’s housing business the federal government sued him for housing discrimination, in other words, he is officially documented for being a racist.

He tweeted a despicable racist meme that used dog-whistle anti-Semitism. The use of a six-pointed star to slam Clinton particularly when combined with piles of money amounted to the use of anti-Semitic imagery and age-old stereotypes. The meme was first used by a white supremacist who listed his location as Jewmerica and his account also had many more racist memes.






He has repeatedly re-tweeted messages of well-known racists:

After months of echoing the American racist right—promising to catalogue all American Muslims, accusing immigrants of being rapists, proposing to build a wall covering the entire U.S.-Mexico border—Donald Trump was caught retweeting a racist Twitter account.

Trump used his official Twitter account on Friday to retweet the account @WhiteGenocideTM. The account, which has claimed “Hitler SAVED Europe” and that “Jews/Israel did 9/11,” is named after an increasingly popular racist idea that white nationalist have worked hard to push into the mainstream –– the idea of “white genocide.” *Source*

I can go on and on and on, but I will leave it there for time being. After the election we can discuss further if you want.



> This much we can agree. They got Hitler elected in 1933 and they got Trump elected in 2016, and no Trump is not "literally Hitler". It takes a idiot to hand the victory to their enemy, and AntiFa are doing a fine job of screwing the Democrat party's reputation with the average folks, no matter how hard the media tries to cover for them or the pathetically organized false flag's to discredit Trump and his supporters


I agree with you all you said about antifa, no doubt these terrorist scumbags helps right-wing to play victim. But the rest Of your comments are your opinion, and the polls tells a different story. Check out my previous post.

Cheers!

=================================


----------



## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> No, I was not trying to justify violence, I am a firm believer in first Amendment, throwing rocks, setting fire to cars or using any kind of violence to stop someone (no matter how pathetic they may be) from holding political rally is totally unjustified and wrong, period.


And yet Democrats, like the pathetic people they are, still do it and make themselves look like violent goons, because pathetic people can't keep their hands to themselves i guess.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/...attempt-short-story-the-papers-reported-reply


RabzonKhan said:


> I don’t know why you think there is no difference between democratic socialist and communist?


Because anyone proposing socialism, be it of whatever variety, especially in the US context is a scam artist, just like all lefty loony-toons were in history. Bernie the fraud who never worked a a real job in his life, just like his ideological grandpapa Karl Marx who actually HATED the working class, will teach us about socialism  .

Now before you drag in Japan, Scandinavian countries, etc... Keep in mind these countries are racially/ethnically, religiously and culturally homogenous and don't have different groups of people at each others throats vying for power and control of the limited resources.


RabzonKhan said:


> In Bernie Sanders own words:



Lol, how about David Duke in his own words too? You seriously think Bernie will write anything but praise for himself and rationalize his ideology?


RabzonKhan said:


> Both books are about Nazism, but the difference is one promotes Nazism the other tells the history of Nazism.


Actually, one can argue that both promote Nazism, because any publicity is good publicity.


RabzonKhan said:


> When he was running his father’s housing business the federal government sued him for housing discrimination, in other words, he is officially documented for being a racist.
> 
> He tweeted a despicable racist meme that used dog-whistle anti-Semitism. The use of a six-pointed star to slam Clinton particularly when combined with piles of money amounted to the use of anti-Semitic imagery and age-old stereotypes. The meme was first used by a white supremacist who listed his location as Jewmerica and his account also had many more racist memes.


Harry Truman signed up for KKK membership. Robert Byrd was an ex KKK Grand Wizard & Hillary Clinton adores him, founding fathers like George Washington owned slaves and didn't consider the likes of you and me as full humans, Winston Churchill considered our people savages and *yet he his still glorified by both Democrats and Republicans as a defender of Democracy*.

What can i say, the world isn't perfect!

But one thing i can say is that Trump is right not to give a F*ck about the Left's expectations of him or others because they are unrealistic & impossible to live up to (not even the Left itself lives up to their own expectations/standards they hold others to).




RabzonKhan said:


> spokesman’s clarification


Damage control


RabzonKhan said:


> Ellison’s criticism of antifa


That smirk on his face didn't look like criticism.

*Actions* speak *louder* than words.



RabzonKhan said:


> the rest Of your comments are your opinion


Just as yours too.


RabzonKhan said:


> the polls tells a different story


As they did in 2016 . im sure.

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## Desert Fox

Lol, according to _#FakeNewsNYT_ which is another Democrat mouth piece (as are all Liberal propaganda outlets) American soldiers should occupy, fight and die in a middle eastern country for a Zionist war than guard and protect the borders of their own Nation.

The best part is the amount of backlash these war-mongers received from the general public on Twitter, showing how out-of-touch these Liberal goons are from the rest of the country.


*Liberal Mouthpiece NYT reveals it's pro-war Agenda in an attack-piece against Trump *​


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058146136807096320

*Lol the responses are pure GOLD:*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058516463890456577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058418538996793346

​*This one takes the cake:*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058396363657015296


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058362792921591808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058385751379992577


*What do Liberals really think of those who ENLIST (not "enroll") in the Military?*​Liberals have nothing but pure hatred for the rural and country folk who make up the bulk of the United States Armed Forces. This is why they use belittling and dehumanizing terms like "_fly-over country_" when referring to the territories between New York and San Francisco (two of many Liberal strongholds on the eastern and western coasts) from where bulk of American servicemen enlist.

From Liberal source The Hill, Link

_"A flyover state is the huge region between the coasts. As opposed to the eastern seaboard, northern post-industrial states and Pacific Ocean states. *They're overwhelmingly Republican, stanchly conservative, regressive right wing, evangelical Christian and working class*, well, the loudest, most ill-informed of them are."_

Pay attention to the demeaning and dehumanizing way in which these so-called "champions of the working class" speak exactly of the very working class, using words like "regressive".






_What Liberals really think 
Of the men and women who enlist 
In the armed forces._​

Liberals celebrated and cheered when a wild fire broke out in the rural mountainous region known as Appalachia and killed rural folk while displacing thousands more and destroying homes. Gatlinburg, which is a town in the Appalachian region, was burned down as a result and 7 lives were lost to the inferno.
















Appalachia is where many great American military commanders like Chuck Yeager and Medal of Honor recipients like Desmond Doss (the 2016 film _Hacksaw Ridge_ depicts his experience in the Pacific theater of WWII) hailed from and to this day this mountainous region provides soldiers for the American military and has been since the days of the Revolutionary War.

_"The Appalachian’s love for their country and long tradition of patriotism and military heritage dates back to the Revolutionary War with the defeat of the British troops at the Battle of Kings Mountain."_

_"Studies show that Appalachian soldiers were 25% more likely to be killed in the Vietnam War than soldiers from other regions. Appalachian states had the highest number of casualties with an average of 59 battle deaths per 100,000. Appalachians made up 8% of our troops and 13% received Medals of Honor. Appalachian soldiers were more likely to be assigned combat duty and pit patrol and many of them volunteered for hazardous assignments. Seven out of nine soldiers who lead patrols died. Appalachian soldiers also suffered more trauma-related combat stress disorders than those from other regions of the country."_

_"The people of Appalachia and other working class people have long been the backbone of the military and have endured much of the physical, psychological and emotional cost we call FREEDOM."_

_"Economics play a large role in the number of armed service-related fatalities from Appalachia and the South. Poor and working-class Appalachians continue to leave economically depressed areas and dead-end jobs for an armed service salary of $1,300 per month, free room and board, skills and training with the prospects of a college education. They continue to be called to the front lines, fighting and dying while wealthy policymakers, less likely have served, will continue to authorize war." -_Source Link

Appalachia is also the poorest region of America with *the highest poverty rate in the country*, despite being 97% White (I guess their White "privilege" didn't help them).

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/12/beattyville-kentucky-and-americas-poorest-towns


So while your average Liberal is concerned about the right of faggots to bugger each other in the butt hole and mentally deranged persons to chop their genitals and replace them with those of the opposite gender while shooting up with artificial harmones and playing dress-up, the people of the rural regions remain neglected, wallowing in an opioid epidemic that is plaguing the region and wiping out entire towns of its inhabitants along with rampant poverty and joblessness due to globalistic economic policies of previous administrations.





_Patton was a man of excellent judgement.
How else was he such a great General?_

@Nilgiri @Psychic @Cobra Arbok @LeGenD @Metanoia​
@RabzonKhan @Hamartia Antidote

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## Cobra Arbok

Desert Fox said:


> Lol, according to _#FakeNewsNYT_ which is another Democrat mouth piece (as are all Liberal propaganda outlets) American soldiers should occupy, fight and die in a middle eastern country for a Zionist war than guard and protect the borders of their own Nation.
> 
> The best part is the amount of backlash these war-mongers received from the general public on Twitter, showing how out-of-touch these Liberal goons are from the rest of the country.
> 
> 
> *Liberal Mouthpiece NYT reveals it's pro-war Agenda in an attack-piece against Trump *​
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058146136807096320
> 
> *Lol the responses are pure GOLD:*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058516463890456577
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058418538996793346
> 
> ​*This one takes the cake:*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058396363657015296
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058362792921591808
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058385751379992577
> 
> 
> *What do the Liberal really think of those who ENLIST (not "enroll") in the Military?*​Liberals have nothing but pure hatred for the rural and country folk who make up the bulk of the United States Armed Forces. This is why they use belittling and dehumanizing terms like "_fly-over country_" when referring to the territories between New York and San Francisco (two of many Liberal strongholds on the eastern and western coasts) from where bulk of American servicemen enlist.
> 
> From Liberal source The Hill, Link
> 
> _"A flyover state is the huge region between the coasts. As opposed to the eastern seaboard, northern post-industrial states and Pacific Ocean states. *They're overwhelmingly Republican, stanchly conservative, regressive right wing, evangelical Christian and working class*, well, the loudest, most ill-informed of them are."_
> 
> Pay attention to the demeaning and dehumanizing way in which these so-called "champions of the working class" speak exactly of the very working class, using words like "regressive".
> 
> 
> View attachment 514458​
> 
> Liberals celebrated and cheered when a wild fire broke out in the rural mountainous region known as Appalachia and killed rural folk while displacing thousands more and destroying homes. Gatlinburg, which is a town in the Appalachian region, was burned down as a result and 7 lives were lost to the inferno.
> 
> View attachment 514462
> 
> 
> View attachment 514463
> 
> 
> View attachment 514464​
> 
> 
> Appalachia is where many great American military commanders like Chuck Yeager and Medal of Honor recipients like Desmond Doss (the 2016 film Hacksaw Ridge depicts his experience in the Pacific theater of WWII) hailed from and to this day this mountainous region provides soldiers for the American military and has been since the days of the Revolutionary War.
> 
> _"The Appalachian’s love for their country and long tradition of patriotism and military heritage dates back to the Revolutionary War with the defeat of the British troops at the Battle of Kings Mountain."_
> 
> _"Studies show that Appalachian soldiers were 25% more likely to be killed in the Vietnam War than soldiers from other regions. Appalachian states had the highest number of casualties with an average of 59 battle deaths per 100,000. Appalachians made up 8% of our troops and 13% received Medals of Honor. Appalachian soldiers were more likely to be assigned combat duty and pit patrol and many of them volunteered for hazardous assignments. Seven out of nine soldiers who lead patrols died. Appalachian soldiers also suffered more trauma-related combat stress disorders than those from other regions of the country."_
> 
> _"The people of Appalachia and other working class people have long been the backbone of the military and have endured much of the physical, psychological and emotional cost we call FREEDOM."_
> 
> _"Economics play a large role in the number of armed service-related fatalities from Appalachia and the South. Poor and working-class Appalachians continue to leave economically depressed areas and dead-end jobs for an armed service salary of $1,300 per month, free room and board, skills and training with the prospects of a college education. They continue to be called to the front lines, fighting and dying while wealthy policymakers, less likely have served, will continue to authorize war." -_Source Link
> 
> Appalachia is also the poorest region of America with the highest poverty rate in the country, despite being 97% White (I guess their White "privilege" didn't help them).
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/12/beattyville-kentucky-and-americas-poorest-towns
> 
> 
> So while your average Liberal is concerned about the right of faggots to bugger each other in the butt hole and mentally deranged persons to chop their genitals and replace them with those of the opposite gender while shooting up with artificial harmones and playing dress-up, the people of the rural regions remain neglected, wallowing in an opioid epidemic that is plaguing the region and wiping out entire towns of its inhabitants along with rampant poverty and joblessness due to globalistic economic policies of previous administrations.
> 
> View attachment 514488
> 
> 
> @Nilgiri @Psychic @Cobra Arbok @LeGenD @Metanoia​
> @RabzonKhan @Hamartia Antidote


I still do not get why liberals are so averse to the idea of deploying troops to guard the border. That is what literally every other country uses its military for. The US is one of the few countries that uses its military for regime changes and wars for oil.

Here are some examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Security_Force
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Rangers

*Does Mexico have Border Patrol?*
That's illegal, like it happens in the United States. *Mexico* does not have a *border* *patrol*. The security perimeter on the *border* is mostly in the hands of the Mexican military and, in particular, the Mexican navy. And they have a very strong presence in that area, and there's not an open-*border* policy.
http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2018/04/04/mexico-border-enforcement-migrants

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## Cobra Arbok

Anyway, I am lucky enough to live in Florida, a swing state. I already voted early for Rick Scott and Ron DeSantis. I just hope that corrupt socialist Andrew Gillum never comes close to the Governor's mansion. Unfortunately, that might actually happen, despite his terrible policy ideas, contempt for Law Enforcement, and corruption.






@Desert Fox @Nilgiri

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## Yankee-stani

Cobra Arbok said:


> Anyway, I am lucky enough to live in Florida, a swing state. I already voted early for Rick Scott and Ron DeSantis. I just hope that corrupt socialist Andrew Gillum never comes close to the Governor's mansion. Unfortunately, that might actually happen, despite his terrible policy ideas, contempt for Law Enforcement, and corruption.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Desert Fox @Nilgiri




Lucky SOB I hate American Federal Politics to be honest but I care about the State and Local Affairs here in NYS we are bound to become a one party state in the future Cuomo is gonna beat Marc Molinaro *** handly and the Dems will take control the State Senate cause no one really likes Trump and since NYC and Long Island is all that matters in winning the State


----------



## Cobra Arbok

OsmanAli98 said:


> Lucky SOB I hate American Federal Politics to be honest but I care about the State and Local Affairs here in NYS we are bound to become a one party state in the future Cuomo is gonna beat Marc Molinaro *** handly and the Dems will take control the State Senate cause no one really likes Trump and since NYC and Long Island is all that matters in winning the State


There is a very good chance Gillum will be elected, but fortunately Republicans control the majority of the House and Senate here, so they will block most of his socialist agenda. What I am worried about is whoever wins the Governorship will get to appoint up to three judges on the state supreme court.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Desert Fox said:


> Lol, according to _#FakeNewsNYT_ which is another Democrat mouth piece (as are all Liberal propaganda outlets) American soldiers should occupy, fight and die in a middle eastern country for a Zionist war than guard and protect the borders of their own Nation.
> 
> The best part is the amount of backlash these war-mongers received from the general public on Twitter, showing how out-of-touch these Liberal goons are from the rest of the country.
> 
> 
> *Liberal Mouthpiece NYT reveals it's pro-war Agenda in an attack-piece against Trump *​
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058146136807096320
> 
> *Lol the responses are pure GOLD:*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058516463890456577
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058418538996793346
> 
> ​*This one takes the cake:*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058396363657015296
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058362792921591808
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058385751379992577
> 
> 
> *What do Liberals really think of those who ENLIST (not "enroll") in the Military?*​Liberals have nothing but pure hatred for the rural and country folk who make up the bulk of the United States Armed Forces. This is why they use belittling and dehumanizing terms like "_fly-over country_" when referring to the territories between New York and San Francisco (two of many Liberal strongholds on the eastern and western coasts) from where bulk of American servicemen enlist.
> 
> From Liberal source The Hill, Link
> 
> _"A flyover state is the huge region between the coasts. As opposed to the eastern seaboard, northern post-industrial states and Pacific Ocean states. *They're overwhelmingly Republican, stanchly conservative, regressive right wing, evangelical Christian and working class*, well, the loudest, most ill-informed of them are."_
> 
> Pay attention to the demeaning and dehumanizing way in which these so-called "champions of the working class" speak exactly of the very working class, using words like "regressive".
> 
> 
> View attachment 514458
> 
> _What Liberals really think
> Of the men and women who enlist
> In the armed forces._​
> 
> Liberals celebrated and cheered when a wild fire broke out in the rural mountainous region known as Appalachia and killed rural folk while displacing thousands more and destroying homes. Gatlinburg, which is a town in the Appalachian region, was burned down as a result and 7 lives were lost to the inferno.
> 
> View attachment 514462
> 
> 
> View attachment 514463
> 
> 
> View attachment 514464​
> 
> 
> Appalachia is where many great American military commanders like Chuck Yeager and Medal of Honor recipients like Desmond Doss (the 2016 film _Hacksaw Ridge_ depicts his experience in the Pacific theater of WWII) hailed from and to this day this mountainous region provides soldiers for the American military and has been since the days of the Revolutionary War.
> 
> _"The Appalachian’s love for their country and long tradition of patriotism and military heritage dates back to the Revolutionary War with the defeat of the British troops at the Battle of Kings Mountain."_
> 
> _"Studies show that Appalachian soldiers were 25% more likely to be killed in the Vietnam War than soldiers from other regions. Appalachian states had the highest number of casualties with an average of 59 battle deaths per 100,000. Appalachians made up 8% of our troops and 13% received Medals of Honor. Appalachian soldiers were more likely to be assigned combat duty and pit patrol and many of them volunteered for hazardous assignments. Seven out of nine soldiers who lead patrols died. Appalachian soldiers also suffered more trauma-related combat stress disorders than those from other regions of the country."_
> 
> _"The people of Appalachia and other working class people have long been the backbone of the military and have endured much of the physical, psychological and emotional cost we call FREEDOM."_
> 
> _"Economics play a large role in the number of armed service-related fatalities from Appalachia and the South. Poor and working-class Appalachians continue to leave economically depressed areas and dead-end jobs for an armed service salary of $1,300 per month, free room and board, skills and training with the prospects of a college education. They continue to be called to the front lines, fighting and dying while wealthy policymakers, less likely have served, will continue to authorize war." -_Source Link
> 
> Appalachia is also the poorest region of America with *the highest poverty rate in the country*, despite being 97% White (I guess their White "privilege" didn't help them).
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/12/beattyville-kentucky-and-americas-poorest-towns
> 
> 
> So while your average Liberal is concerned about the right of faggots to bugger each other in the butt hole and mentally deranged persons to chop their genitals and replace them with those of the opposite gender while shooting up with artificial harmones and playing dress-up, the people of the rural regions remain neglected, wallowing in an opioid epidemic that is plaguing the region and wiping out entire towns of its inhabitants along with rampant poverty and joblessness due to globalistic economic policies of previous administrations.
> 
> View attachment 514488
> 
> _Patton was a man of excellent judgement.
> How else was he such a great General?_
> 
> @Nilgiri @Psychic @Cobra Arbok @LeGenD @Metanoia​
> @RabzonKhan @Hamartia Antidote



There's some stupid paranoia law stating the US military can't do law enforcement.

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## Desert Fox

Lol @ Liberal cognitive dissonance

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## Desert Fox

*Kavanaugh Accusers Recanting as Grassley Brings Down The Hammer*​

Just days before the midterm elections, Sen. Chuck Grassley asked the federal authorities on Friday to investigate another person he says made false claims against Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh.

*Grassley, in a letter to the Department of Justice and FBI, said a woman by the name of Judy Munro-Leighton took responsibility for authoring an anonymous letter that made allegations that Kavanaugh and a friend raped her.* After she was tracked down and interviewed by Senate investigators, the woman recanted and said she was not, in fact. the author and *had never met Kavanaugh*.

*Grassley claims the woman is a left-wing activist and told investigators it was “just a ploy,” he wrote in the letter.*

Grassley asked for federal authorities to investigate her on allegations of making false statements and obstruction.





The letter marks at least the fourth request Grassley has made of federal authorities to investigate those involved in the controversial Kavanaugh proceedings, which were extended due to a series of sexual assault allegations surfacing when Kavanaugh was in high school and college.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058715144442781696
*Grassley has thus far asked federal authorities to investigate: Julie Swetnick, who accused Kavanaugh of drunken behavior and sexual assault; Michael Avenatti, her lawyer who also represented **** star Stormy Daniels in a suit against President Donald Trump; and a man, who was never publicly identified but recanted an allegation he’d made against Kavanaugh.*

Munro-Leighton was brought into the saga after a graphic and anonymous letter was sent to Sen. Kamala Harris in California. The letter included a story about Kavanaugh and another male groping, sexually assaulting and ultimately raping a woman in a vehicle after a party.

The letter was signed by a Jane Doe from Oceanside, Calif.

Grassley says Munro-Leighton wrote an email that included her name. He said Senate investigators were able to track her down and found she lived in Kentucky, not California, and was a Democrat.

*Investigators got in touch with her over the phone and Munro-Leighton admitted she wrote the email after seeing the “Jane Doe” letter in news reports. She said she claimed to be Jane Doe so the letter would gain attention, “I was angry and I sent it out,” the woman told investigators, according to Grassley’s letter, but in fact did not write it.*

Grassley said the false allegation diverted resources on a time-sensitive matter. It’s unclear whether the true author was located or whether the inidivudal came forward.

“The Committee is grateful to citizens who come forward with relevant information in good faith, even if they are not one hundred percent sure about what they know,” he wrote in the letter to the FBI and DOJ. “*But when individuals intentionally mislead the Committee, they divert Committee resources during time-sensitive investigations and materially impede our work. Such acts are not only unfair; they are potentially illegal.*”

@Nilgiri @Psychic @Hamartia Antidote @Metanoia

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## RabzonKhan

@Desert Fox Thanks for the response, so far, I think we had a good discussion, comments focused on the arguments, not the person presenting them, way to go. Hopefully we can resume after the election.

*Watch Live: Steve Kornacki Previews Tomorrow’s Must-Watch House Races | NBC News*

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## Cobra Arbok

@Desert Fox so far, Republicans are ahead in Missouri, North Dakota, Nevada, Texas, and Tennessee. Democrats have slight leads in Florida and Arizona(although I think Arizona will vote Republican). However, what's interesting is right before the election, Democrats' leads in Ohio and West Virginia are down to single digits, with Manchin's lead down to 5 percent, lower than its ever been. It looks like Trump's visits paid off. My prediction is that Republicans will keep Arizona and Nevada and pick up three seats in North Dakota, Missouri, and either Montana, Indiana, or Florida. However, more pickups are possible. As for the house, my prediction is that Democrats will pick up 18 to 20 seat, just barely short of the number required to win the House, allowing Republicans to barely hold on to the House. If they do win the House(which is possible, I predict they won't pick up more than 30 seats, and will have only a slim majority.

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## Cobra Arbok

Georgia republican gubernatorial candidate Brian Kemp has double digit lead over liberal democrat opponent.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2018/governor/ga/georgia_governor_kemp_vs_abrams-6628.html
@Desert Fox @OsmanAli98

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## cloud4000

Today is election day in US. For those that are registered to vote, please do. As US citizens, we have a duty to participate in a democracy even though we are not obligated to.

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## VCheng

I voted.

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## Solomon2

*MSNBC Puts Florida Governor Race Vote-Total Graphic Onscreen A Wee Bit Early*
by Erik Pedersen
and David Robb

November 5, 2018 6:31pm








It’s the kind of goof that the folks who scream about “fake news” likely will scream about. MSNBC this evening briefly put a graphic onscreen that showed “vote counts” for the Florida gubernatorial race — you know, the one being held tomorrow.




MSNBC screenshot
“Quick clarification here,” a rather embarrassed _All In_ host Chris Hayes told viewers. “Just want to say, earlier this hour, uh, we showed a graphic of the Florida gubernatorial race. May have caught your eye because our system had inadvertently populated some test numbers. Obviously, we do not yet have any vote totals here, the night before the election. That was a misfire. Don’t worry. I was pretty confused when I saw it up there, to see it myself.”

And, of course, MSNBC had Democrat Andrew Gillum leading the GOP’s Ron DeSantis by six-tenths of a percentage point with 99% of the ballots counted.

It’s going to be a long day and night in America — and, to a lesser extent, around the world — on Tuesday, so stick with Deadline for coverage of the key national races along with what’s going on here in California.

That is, except while you’re out casting your vote in one on the most important midterm elections in recent memory.


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## Desert Fox

*Operation Faithful Patriot In Action*​


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## RabzonKhan

Happy election day! 

I voted this morning, have you?

Keep in mind, it’s a privilege that many people in the world don’t have.

Make your voice heard.

Every vote counts.

Cheers!


======================================

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## F-22Raptor

I voted!

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan




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## Cobra Arbok

Its almost here folks. In just a couple of hours, the one poll that really counts. polls close in Kentucky and Indiana at 6:00 pm Eastern. On presidential elections, nobody cares about these states, but this year there is a very close senate race in Indiana and a tight House race in Kentucky. These races could determine whether there will actually be a blue wave. I'll try and keep you guys updated.

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## Cobra Arbok

update 6;10 Eastern: Early results show Braun leading by 10 points.


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## Cobra Arbok

update 6:50 Eastern: Braun approximately 25 points ahead of Donnely, Andy Barr and McGrath are neck and neck

update 7:00 Eastern: With 1% in, Scott and DeSantis hold narrow leads in Florida


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## KAL-EL

Voted a few hours back and now watching election coverage.

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## Cobra Arbok

update 7:40 things don't look good for florida republicans right now

interesting that Desantis appears to be outperforming Scott. Also, Dems made their first pickup

the western panhanfle came in Desantis is in lead with less than 20 percent

8:15 O Rourke is surprisingly leading in texas

desantis up 0.5 with 90 percent in

dems got another pickup in the house

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## Cobra Arbok

Repubs might actually win florida and beto might actually win texas. Dems have a good chane of taking the house.

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## Falcon29

CNN and others believe Republicans will retain the Senate. Also believe there is a high chance of Democrats taking the house. Although no official CNN projection yet.


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## Cobra Arbok

things are looking good for desantis and scott with 98 percent in

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## Falcon29

Democrats need to flip 21 more seats in House to get majority-CNN

Now:

Democrats win two seats in Pennsylvania

...
...

19 more seats to flip House, but Republicans leading some Dem districts too, so real number around 24-26


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## Cobra Arbok

Kris kobach lost in Kansas, Scott and Desnatis still ahead in florida with 99 percent in

Also, mitt romney finally won something



Falcon29 said:


> Democrats need to flip 21 more seats in House to get majority-CNN
> 
> Now:
> 
> Democrats win two seats in Pennsylvania
> 
> ...
> ...
> 
> 19 more seats to flip House, but Republicans leading some Dem districts too, so real number around 24-26


It looks like they are going to pick up two in virginia and texas. They will also pick up several in California.

10:15- McSally slightly ahead in Arizona with 36 percent in. Republicans are also leading in Missouri and North Dakota.


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## Falcon29

Looks like Ted Cruz wins Texas



Cobra Arbok said:


> Kris kobach lost in Kansas, Scott and Desnatis still ahead in florida with 99 percent in
> 
> Also, mitt romney finally won something
> 
> 
> It looks like they are going to pick up two in virginia and texas. They will also pick up several in California.
> 
> 10:15- McSally slightly ahead in Arizona with 36 percent in. Republicans are also leading in Missouri and North Dakota.



They will get eight more seats than what is needed in House according to CNN as of now ...

New projections:

Three Republicans win Senate seats again, Republicans need three more seats to win majority in Senate. Was expected by everyone.

....
....

MSNBC projects Democrats will win the House

CNN projects Republicans will retain Senate

CNN projects Ted Cruz will win in Texas


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## Cobra Arbok

10:20 50 percent in, Sinema now leads McSally by 1 point

Taylor just lost, it looks like Brat is also going to lose.

Bit early, but it looks like Kemp will win the governorship of Georgia without having to win a run-off

Looks like Mike DeWine will be elected governor of Ohio

10 45- Rick Scott looks likely to flip Bill nelson's senate seat in Florida. DeSantis is also in a good position


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## Falcon29

Dems going to take the House, which is big. Interesting two years ahead of us.


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## Cobra Arbok

It also looks like Republicans can win the governorship of Conneticut, which will be a pretty big upset



Falcon29 said:


> Dems going to take the House, which is big. Interesting two years ahead of us.


Although it is possible Republicans get up to 55 seats in the Senate.


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## gambit

Falcon29 said:


> Dems going to take the House, which is big. Interesting two years ahead of us.


Not as 'big' as you think...

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/demo...rst-time-in-eight-years.585595/#post-10922059


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## Falcon29

gambit said:


> Not as 'big' as you think...
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/demo...rst-time-in-eight-years.585595/#post-10922059



Go finish your debate with that guy, I didn't bring up 2020 race.


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## Cobra Arbok

11:00 Its official, democrats will take the house. Also, DeSantis won in Florida

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## KAL-EL

Committee gavel power


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## gambit

Falcon29 said:


> Go finish your debate with that guy, I didn't bring up 2020 race.


You are being shortsighted. The Democrats have been looking at 2020. And this is the US Politics thread, no?


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## Falcon29

gambit said:


> You are being shortsighted. The Democrats have been looking at 2020. And this is the US Politics thread, no?



It's too early to tell who the democrats will rally around in 2020. If Joe Biden decides to make a run, he is going to put up an effective fight. 

As far as midterms go, some things did go right for Republicans. Some went right for Democrats. Democrat majority in House will change some political realities depending how things play out. So as I said it will be interesting two years ahead of us.


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## Cobra Arbok

Falcon29 said:


> It's too early to tell who the democrats will rally around in 2020. If Joe Biden decides to make a run, he is going to put up an effective fight.
> 
> As far as midterms go, some things did go right for Republicans. Some went right for Democrats. Democrat majority in House will change some political realities depending how things play out. So as I said it will be interesting two years ahead of us.


If we are discussing 2020, its important to note that Scott and DeSantis won in Florida, and Mark DeWine won in Ohio, and Kim Reynolds is ahead in Iowa. There's also a chance Scott Walker could hold onto his office in Wisconsin. So in terms of statewide votes in swing states Trump is in good condition.

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## Cobra Arbok

1:25 am- Matt Rosendale takes a slim lead in Montana with over half the vote in

in Wisconsin, Walker and Evers are almost tied with 97 percent of the vote in

1:40- Matt Rosendale has a good chance of winning in Montana, and Scoot Walker looks like he is going to lose.


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## Cobra Arbok

2:10 am- Rosendale has a real chance of winning in Montana, but Dean Heller could be in trouble considering there are no results form Clark County.

2:25- Jacky Rosen defeats Dean Heller in Nevada


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## Cobra Arbok

3:40 am- Scott Walker loses in Wisconsin


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## Desert Fox

Lol on a lighter note, saw this in facebook


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## Falcon29

Cobra Arbok said:


> If we are discussing 2020, its important to note that Scott and DeSantis won in Florida, and Mark DeWine won in Ohio, and Kim Reynolds is ahead in Iowa. There's also a chance Scott Walker could hold onto his office in Wisconsin. So in terms of statewide votes in swing states Trump is in good condition.



Trump is expected to win 2020 election if Democrats don't get a good candidate to run up against him.


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## Vergennes

@Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote @gambit @Cobra Arbok @KAL-EL & all.

Don't you guys have enough of always voting democrats and republicans ?  

Why isn't there any credible opposition to the two above ?


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## maximuswarrior

Falcon29 said:


> Trump is expected to win 2020 election if Democrats don't get a good candidate to run up against him.



Let's hope he does. We need another good 4 years of pu$$grabber in the White House.

Ron DeSantis the racist despot won LOL Well done 'Murica. You never disappoint.


----------



## Falcon29

maximuswarrior said:


> Let's hope he does. We need another good 4 years of pu$$grabber in the White House.



It will be another 4 years of what there is now ... not much different ....


----------



## maximuswarrior

Falcon29 said:


> It will be another 4 years of what there is now ... not much different ....



That's exactly why I hope Trump the chief sower of chaos wins.

Trump divides America. That is his main strength. He is not a unifier. He is a divider.


----------



## maximuswarrior

Haque said:


> Unfortunately he's doing a bad job of it, unlike you Pak!s who lost Bangladesh and will soon lose Balochistan and KPK



LOL Getting rid off BD was hardly a loss you little Hindu cvnt.

We are too resilient to be broken fool. LOL your daddy America has been predicting the end of Pakistan since the last 17 years. We know how their wish ended up. They are still begging for Pakistan to do more LMAO Ask that witch Alice who is a on her usual begging visit.

You just worry about climate change Bangi cvnt. There might be very little left to call Bangiland.


----------



## GHALIB

maximuswarrior said:


> Let's hope he does. We need another good 4 years of pu$$grabber in the White House.
> 
> Ron DeSantis the racist despot won LOL Well done 'Murica. You never disappoint.


granted.


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

Vergennes said:


> @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote @gambit @Cobra Arbok @KAL-EL & all.
> 
> Don't you guys have enough of always voting democrats and republicans ?
> 
> Why isn't there any credible opposition to the two above ?



I’m confused as to why “credible” is suddenly a requirement when I’m not sure the current ones can even pass this.


----------



## maximuswarrior

Haque said:


> We Banglas broke you and sent you racist Pak! cunnts home with your tails between your legs
> 
> 
> Says Uncles Sam's Bitch, how did that American d!ck taste pu$$y?
> 
> https://tribune.com.pk/story/297979/nato-jets-attack-checkpost-on-pak-afghan-border/
> 
> 
> View attachment 516488​



LOL You accuse Pakistanis of raping your daughters and mothers. It is your own admission. What are you going to taunt others LMAO

Uncle Sam begs for Pakistan to do more. Uncle Sam begs Pakistan to keep Afghan refugees inside Pakistan. Uncle Sam begs Pakistan to abandon its relationship with China. Uncle Sam begs and keeps begging for more. How is that being a bitch of Uncle Sam you Bangi cvnt? You are confused and contradicting.

You know how we paid back Uncle Sam for killing Pakistani soliders at Salala? 17 years of failure in Afghanistan.

*The war America can't win: how the Taliban are regaining control in Afghanistan*

*



*

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/03/afghanistan-war-helmand-taliban-us-womens-rights-peace

Ask your daddy America how it feels to be shafted in Afghanistan.


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## Cobra Arbok

guys c'mon. This is a thread on us politics, not ****-bangla dick measuring contest.


12.25 pm nov 7th- senate races in arizona, montana, and florida too close yo call, with republicans leading all of them. Florida senate race is going to head to an automatic recount. the georgia gov race is too close to call, and there is a chance it might go to a runoff after thw absenteee and mail in ballots are counted. Republican Mike dunleavy won the Alaska gubernatorial election. The democrat is likely to in the conneticut gubernatorial election. Dems have flipped several state legislatures and gained complete control over colorado, new york, maine, and likely conneticut. Republicans hold control over florida, ohio, iowa, texs,arizona, among others. they may also flip the alaska house of representatives to gain complete control over alaska.



maximuswarrior said:


> Let's hope he does. We need another good 4 years of pu$$grabber in the White House.
> 
> Ron DeSantis the racist despot won LOL Well done 'Murica. You never disappoint.


i voted for scott and dedantis. better than the sociaist crook gillum and do-nothing nelson.


----------



## Cobra Arbok

update 1:40 pm- Jon Tester win s in Montana. Arizona is not likely to be called until as late as Saturday. Also, the Georgia gubernatorial race may go to a runoff.


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## RabzonKhan

Donald Trump’s honeymoon is over!

Democrats have won control of the House.

It seems Trump is already panicking.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1060155917059219461
Talk about, a guilty conscience needs no accuser or in Urdu we say Chor ki dari mein tinka


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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> Donald Trump’s honeymoon is over!
> 
> Democrats have won control of the House.
> 
> It seems Trump is already panicking.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1060155917059219461
> Talk about, a guilty conscience needs no accuser or in Urdu we say Chor ki dari mein tinka




It's okay. The great US system of checks and balances at work, nothing else.


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## Cobra Arbok

RabzonKhan said:


> Donald Trump’s honeymoon is over!
> 
> Democrats have won control of the House.
> 
> It seems Trump is already panicking.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1060155917059219461
> Talk about, a guilty conscience needs no accuser or in Urdu we say Chor ki dari mein tinka


Don't expect House Democrats to do anything significant. The best they can do is create circuses with investigations and hearings like the Republicans did with Perer Strzok and Rod Rosentstein. Worst comes to worst, the Senate will definitely vote against impeachment. I'd say the Senate is more important to Rump because the Senate confirms Judges and executive positions, and the Senate will have at least 53 seats, potentially 54. This means the Senate will confirm pretty much anyone Trump nominates, so he will continue to confirm federal judges and should be able to easily reshape his cabinet(assuming he fires Sessions and Rod Rosenstein). And to bring up a dark horse, there is a chance of another Supreme Court vacancy.

update 3:05 PM- Sessions has resigned

update 3:10- CNN reported that Rudy Giluani said Mueller "is done"

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## RabzonKhan

This was truly a historic midterm election. According to New York Times estimates, approximately hundred and 114 million votes were cast in House races, compared to 83 million in 2014.

And according to CBS news:


*The most women ever elected to the House*
The record-breaking number of women running led to another historic moment. With more than 90 women elected to the House as of early Wednesday morning, this election led to more women winning House seats than in any election in American history.







*Sharice Davids and Deb Haaland, the first Native American congresswomen*
Haaland, a member of the Pueblo of Laguna tribe in New Mexico, will be one of the first two Native American women to serve in the House of Representatives. Davids, who won the race for Kansas' 3rd Congressional District, is a first in two ways: Besides being Native American, she'll also be the first lesbian congresswoman from Kansas. And she's a former MMA fighter, as well.

*Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar, the first Muslim congresswomen*
Two Democratic candidates will become the first Muslim women to serve in Congress. Tlaib, who ran unopposed to represent Michigan's 17th Congressional District, will become the first Palestinian-American congresswoman. Omar, a former refugee, will be the first Somali-American congresswoman after winning the race for Minnesota's 5th Congressional District.








VCheng said:


> It's okay. The great US system of checks and balances at work, nothing else.


I agree, I think many voters voted for the Democrats for the House races for the same reason.


----------



## maximuswarrior

LOL epic.






"You are the enemy of the people."

Trump you bloody beauty.


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## RabzonKhan

Cobra Arbok said:


> Don't expect House Democrats to do anything significant. The best they can do is create circuses with investigations and hearings like the Republicans did with Perer Strzok and Rod Rosentstein. Worst comes to worst, the Senate will definitely vote against impeachment. I'd say the Senate is more important to Rump because the Senate confirms Judges and executive positions, and the Senate will have at least 53 seats, potentially 54. This means the Senate will confirm pretty much anyone Trump nominates, so he will continue to confirm federal judges and should be able to easily reshape his cabinet(assuming he fires Sessions and Rod Rosenstein). And to bring up a dark horse, there is a chance of another Supreme Court vacancy.


I think there are some legitimate issues that the House Dems should look into, but never go overboard, opening up unnecessary investigations or hearings will only play into Trump’s hand. Nancy Pelosi is a shrewd politician I don’t think she’s going to embarrass herself or her party by starting impeachment proceedings.





> update 3:05 PM- Sessions has resigned
> 
> update 3:10- CNN reported that *Rudy Giluani said Mueller "is done"*


I think that will be a bad idea. Let him complete his investigation.[/QUOTE]

@Cobra Arbok welcome to the forum. And thanks for the updates.

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## maximuswarrior

The first casualty is in. Jeff Sessions the little racist grandpa just got fired LOL It is going apeshit in Trumpland.


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## Desert Fox

Lol Dems didn't get their much taunted "blue wave", in stead they got a blue ripple (or _fart_ to be precise). Republicans gained more seats in Senate where it matters most.
*
Blue Wave? More Like Blue Ripple*​

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> LOL this is too funny. Rabid leftist lunatics vs. Trump supporters.
> 
> These Trump supporters are all _classical_ Liberals or Libertarians, but I have to say they kept their calm in the face of these rabid Marxist Democrats and managed to use their own shaming technique against them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Nilgiri @Psychic @Metanoia @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote​



Millenial millie is great! She does some good coverage of just how nutty a lot are hah.



Desert Fox said:


> Lol Dems didn't get their much taunted "blue wave", in stead they got a blue ripple (or _fart_ to be precise). Republicans gained more seats in Senate where it matters most.
> *
> Blue Wave? More Like Blue Ripple*​
> View attachment 516543​



Here's a good sane analysis from Washpo of all places (surprised it made it there):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...rump-won-the-election/?utm_term=.580e38858c04

@Gomig-21

Dems were counting on a similar wave to what GOP got in 2010 (that dems seem to be wary in talking about now whenever they bring up this as some referendum on Trump's first 2 years).

They might have gotten at least half of it (say 30 - 40) if they didnt abandon fundamental due process (with Kavanaugh) and go all in with the russian nothing burger (and instead actually work with Trump to get some of that old working democrat legislation w.r.t immigration, healthcare etc through). Instead they barely got under 30ish?..and thus very slim majority in house.

Combine with project veritas exposing dem treachery in crucial states (MO, FL, AZ), and GOP actually looks to now increase Senate by 3 seats to 54.

They (Dems) spent 70 million bucks on just Beto O Rourke lol....and nothing to show for it in the end haha...and they are contemplating running Beta as president candidate LOL.

No wonder Obama bankrupted the DNC and lost 1000 state legislature seats to show for it too in just few years time. Dems seem to have lost the plot entirely in how to position and play pragmatically (i.e harness some of that earlier working class street smart they used to have in 20th century till it was abandoned under Clinton).

Redistricting wise (esp if you look at key new england, iowa and Arizona governor holds by GOP, cross-correlated with their state legislature control), 2020-2021 (next 10 year chunk till 2030) is looking quite solid for GOP for both Trump term 2 and the follow on. It sucks they lost Wisc + Mich govs tho, those would have been good to hold for same reason.

Trump now has a big silver lining in that he can attack the Dem house for 2020 on key campaign issues that got him to the presidency....because lets face it, all the dems are going to do is continue with the inquisition ( satisfying 1/3rd of American population but ignoring the solid 1/3rd neutrals that are already getting increasingly frustrated with them and completely angering the 1/3rd pro-trump people that will turnout much more in 2020). I'd say everything is falling into place quite nicely overall. Trump can just get through more judges as needed with no dems or even the 2 RINO ladies needing to vote....thanks Harry Reid!


Good to see Sessions got the boot too.



Desert Fox said:


> Didn't this guy get the memo? He needs to check his "White heterosexual cisgender-male privilege".
> 
> No more White male patriarchy will be allowed to hold leadership positions within the _People's Democratic Socialist Party_.
> 
> View attachment 509292
> ​
> The future of the Democrat Party belongs to empowered women of color like Alexandra Ocasio Cortez who will finally smash the evil White male patriarchy plaguing America since the days of George Washington who was literally a racist slave owner (God, i can't wait till they replace his face on the dollar bill with a Black tranny).
> 
> Alexandra Ocasio Cortes is the future of the Democratic _Soviet Socialist_ Party of America
> 
> She has an AWESOME platform for further demolishing her party's image which is already increasingly viewed as the party of left-wing lunatics who play identity politics and are proposing "free" stuff (nothing is for free, everything comes at a cost).
> 
> 
> Meet The Future of the Democrat Party: Alexandra
> Ocasio Cortes​
> View attachment 509285​
> 
> _"Who is Alexandria Ocasio Cortez? Well, a 28 year old millennial and a member of Democratic Socialists of America. She ran on a communist platform of guaranteed housing and jobs for everyone, as per Karl Marx’s immortal words: “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”. Cortez also promised to abolish ICE, being a hardcore pro-open borders globalist, together with guaranteeing free healthcare and free education for all, because what the heck? We’re all friends here, right? Bernie Sanders taught her good, didn’t he? Free this, free that, until other people’s money run out and you end up hunting rats with bows and arrows, Venezuela style."_
> 
> View attachment 509291
> 
> 
> View attachment 509293​
> @Nilgiri @Psychic @Metanoia



Heh you have taken over for me while I was away. Good job bud.

The actual results in NYC district ocasio cortes runs in are showing some very interesting trends now (as democrats go full on with the progressive socialism and abandon traditional working class pragmatic common sense stuff that was once their forte):

https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...-divide-wars-working-class-blue-collar-221913

A key bit:

_New York's 14th Congressional District is more than 70 percent people of color, and 50 percent Hispanic. Ocasio-Cortez, who was born in the Bronx to a Puerto Rican mother, fit the district’s changing demographics, and neatly fit a larger narrative of a national Democratic Party in which increasing progressivism and diversity go hand and hand.

But a closer examination of the data tells a different story. Ocasio-Cortez’s best precincts were places like the neighborhood where Bonthius and his friends live: highly educated, whiter and richer than the district as a whole. In those neighborhoods, Ocasio-Cortez clobbered Crowley by 70 percent or more. Crowley’s best precincts, meanwhile, were the working-class African-American enclave of LeFrak City, where he got more than 60 percent of the vote, and portions of heavily Hispanic Corona. He pulled some of his best numbers in Ocasio-Cortez’s heavily Latino and African-American neighborhood of Parkchester, in the Bronx—beating her by more than 25 points on her home turf._

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## Cobra Arbok

Nilgiri said:


> Millenial millie is great! She does some good coverage of just how nutty a lot are hah.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a good sane analysis from Washpo of all places (surprised it made it there):
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...rump-won-the-election/?utm_term=.580e38858c04
> 
> @Gomig-21
> 
> Dems were counting on a similar wave to what GOP got in 2010 (that dems seem to be wary in talking about now whenever they bring up this as some referendum on Trump's first 2 years).
> 
> They might have gotten at least half of it (say 30 - 40) if they didnt abandon fundamental due process (with Kavanaugh) and go all in with the russian nothing burger (and instead actually work with Trump to get some of that old working democrat legislation w.r.t immigration, healthcare etc through). Instead they barely got under 30ish?..and thus very slim majority in house.
> 
> Combine with project veritas exposing dem treachery in crucial states (MO, FL, AZ), and GOP actually looks to now increase Senate by 3 seats to 54.
> 
> They (Dems) spent 70 million bucks on just Beto O Rourke lol....and nothing to show for it in the end haha...and they are contemplating running Beta as president candidate LOL.
> 
> No wonder Obama bankrupted the DNC and lost 1000 state legislature seats to show for it too in just few years time. Dems seem to have lost the plot entirely in how to position and play pragmatically (i.e harness some of that earlier working class street smart they used to have in 20th century till it was abandoned under Clinton).
> 
> Redistricting wise (esp if you look at key new england, iowa and Arizona governor holds by GOP, cross-correlated with their state legislature control), 2020-2021 (next 10 year chunk till 2030) is looking quite solid for GOP for both Trump term 2 and the follow on. It sucks they lost Wisc + Mich govs tho, those would have been good to hold for same reason.
> 
> Trump now has a big silver lining in that he can attack the Dem house for 2020 on key campaign issues that got him to the presidency....because lets face it, all the dems are going to do is continue with the inquisition ( satisfying 1/3rd of American population but ignoring the solid 1/3rd neutrals that are already getting increasingly frustrated with them and completely angering the 1/3rd pro-trump people that will turnout much more in 2020). I'd say everything is falling into place quite nicely overall. Trump can just get through more judges as needed with no dems or even the 2 RINO ladies needing to vote....thanks Harry Reid!
> 
> 
> Good to see Sessions got the boot too.
> 
> 
> 
> Heh you have taken over for me while I was away. Good job bud.
> 
> The actual results in NYC district ocasio cortes runs in are showing some very interesting trends now (as democrats go full on with the progressive socialism and abandon traditional working class pragmatic common sense stuff that was once their forte):
> 
> https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...-divide-wars-working-class-blue-collar-221913
> 
> A key bit:
> 
> _New York's 14th Congressional District is more than 70 percent people of color, and 50 percent Hispanic. Ocasio-Cortez, who was born in the Bronx to a Puerto Rican mother, fit the district’s changing demographics, and neatly fit a larger narrative of a national Democratic Party in which increasing progressivism and diversity go hand and hand.
> 
> But a closer examination of the data tells a different story. Ocasio-Cortez’s best precincts were places like the neighborhood where Bonthius and his friends live: highly educated, whiter and richer than the district as a whole. In those neighborhoods, Ocasio-Cortez clobbered Crowley by 70 percent or more. Crowley’s best precincts, meanwhile, were the working-class African-American enclave of LeFrak City, where he got more than 60 percent of the vote, and portions of heavily Hispanic Corona. He pulled some of his best numbers in Ocasio-Cortez’s heavily Latino and African-American neighborhood of Parkchester, in the Bronx—beating her by more than 25 points on her home turf._



I think its great Sessions was shown the door. I thought his appointment was a big mistake. For the pas two years he has been underwhelming and unable to stand up to the Democrats on issues such as sanctuary cities. Trump should have appointed someone like Trey Gowdy who doesn't tolerate liberal BS. Not to mention, his appointment caused the whole Roy Moore fiasco.

On a side note, I think Sessions will run for his old Senate seat in Alabama in 2020.

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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> I agree, I think many voters voted for the Democrats for the House races for the same reason.



The system, despite its present turmoil, shall endure very well. Of that, there is no doubt.

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## gambit

Vergennes said:


> @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote @gambit @Cobra Arbok @KAL-EL & all.
> 
> Don't you guys have enough of always voting democrats and republicans ?
> 
> Why isn't there any credible opposition to the two above ?


Believe it or not, the Communist Party of the USA is a legal entity.

http://www.cpusa.org/
https://www.facebook.com/cpusa/

So not only technically but also in practice, the US is a multi-party politics country. But there is also another issue...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting

To summarize, FPTP electoral system tends to favor an eventual two-party engagement.



> ...which says that constituencies that use first-past-the-post methods will lead to two-party systems, given enough time.


FPTP puts the burden of representation upon the voters and the parties. It is upon *YOU* to convince me that you are worthy of my vote. If the commies somehow managed to make their ideology palatable, the first thing that will happen is the CPUSA will gain prominence, then begins to affect voting percentages as the CPUSA takes votes away from both Democrats and Republicans, then as the CPUSA increases its influence, with FPTP, it will be Commies vs Democrats or Commies vs Republicans.


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## RabzonKhan




----------



## Cobra Arbok

looking back, it is surprising that republicans kept most of their seats in california, but lost seats in south carolina, texas, and oklahoma.

they really got wrecked in new york, new jersey, pennsylvania, and virginia.


----------



## RabzonKhan

In the 2018 midterm elections, Democrats took back control of the House of Representatives, ending a two-year streak in which Republicans controlled the White House and both houses of Congress.

Meanwhile, Republicans gained seats in the Senate in a highly anticipated referendum on the leadership of President Donald Trump.

*These elections broke major records for:*

· Fundraising for congressional elections

· Early-voter turnout in a non-presidential election

· The number of candidates running

· The number of female candidates running

· The number of female candidates elected

· The number of LGBT candidates running

· The number of women of color running

· The youngest woman ever elected to Congress

· The first Native American women elected to Congress

· The first Muslim women elected to Congress

· The first Korean-American woman elected to Congress

· The first openly LGBT governor


And one more thing, the Republicans elected a DEAD MAN, yes, a dead man. The dead candidate was a owner of many brothels and was for famously known as a pimp, he loved Trump and always used to compare himself to him, he almost received 68% of the vote. Oh man, I really don’t know what the heck they’re smoking, it’s not just injurious to their health, but also to United States health. *Source*


----------



## Cobra Arbok

update 4:00 pm November 8th- Rick Scott's lead has fallen to 0.2 percent, which means it is headed for a hand recount. Ron DeSantis' lead is down to 0.4 percent and headed for an automatic recount. Nikki, Fried, the democratic candidate for agricultural commissioner, has taken a lead of almost 500 votes over republican Matt Caldwell. It is also headed for a hand recount. Currently there are still precints reporting in Miami-Dade and Bay counties, and thousands of absentee and provisional ballots being counted, many of them in Broward and Palm Beach. The military vote will also be counted by next week. Things are looking really close, and it could very well be a repeat of 2000

Also, Trump is considering Florida's current outgoing Attorney General Pam Bondi as a replacement for Jeff Sessions.

Trump is also considering former New Jersey Gov. Chris Cristie, current Health and Human services secretary Alex, Azar, and losing Kansas gubernatorial candidate Kris Kobach. Unfortunately, he does not seem to be seriously considering Trey Gowdy, probably because he supports Mueller. Out of all those potential nominees, I think Bondi is the only decent one.


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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> Heh you have taken over for me while I was away. Good job bud.


No problem. That's what we're here for my friend 



Nilgiri said:


> Here's a good sane analysis from Washpo of all places (surprised it made it there):
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...rump-won-the-election/?utm_term=.580e38858c04


Interesting analysis. Another great defeat for the Liberal Left.

Looks like Americans are satisfied with the economic boom under President Trump, while Dems can keep sending AntiFa hordes and push for tranny bathrooms.


Nilgiri said:


> Dems were counting on a similar wave to what GOP got in 2010 (that dems seem to be wary in talking about now whenever they bring up this as some referendum on Trump's first 2 years).
> 
> They might have gotten at least half of it (say 30 - 40) if they didnt abandon fundamental due process (with Kavanaugh) and go all in with the russian nothing burger (and instead actually work with Trump to get some of that old working democrat legislation w.r.t immigration, healthcare etc through). Instead they barely got under 30ish?..and thus very slim majority in house.


Indeed. 


Nilgiri said:


> They (Dems) spent 70 million bucks on just Beto O Rourke lol....and nothing to show for it in the end haha...and they are contemplating running Beta as president candidate LOL.


Lol, I read Beto isn't even his real name. He goes by that name in order to appeal to Latino voters 

Otherwise he's just a "cisgendered White privileged patriarchal" male according to the official ShitLib narrative (tbh he is a privileged White Liberal who only wants non-White votes but lives in gated all-White communities, just like Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton).

Hopefully he gets _me-too'ed_ and Dems replace him with an "empowered" Black tranny.


Nilgiri said:


> Trump now has a big silver lining in that he can attack the Dem house for 2020 on key campaign issues that got him to the presidency....because lets face it, all the dems are going to do is continue with the inquisition ( satisfying 1/3rd of American population but ignoring the solid 1/3rd neutrals that are already getting increasingly frustrated with them and completely angering the 1/3rd pro-trump people that will turnout much more in 2020). I'd say everything is falling into place quite nicely overall. Trump can just get through more judges as needed with no dems or even the 2 RINO ladies needing to vote....thanks Harry Reid!


Dems are the gift that keeps giving.

I say good on them. Let them double down. Let the frankensteins they created and protected continue to push the normies towards the Right.

The radical left makes Trump look like an angel in comparison. Now throw in the elitist ShitLib media which is completely out-of-touch with the average American, couple that with the retarded Democrat platform of open borders and loose immigration + free gibs for everyone and you get the disaster known as the American left which is only doubling down on its suicidal war path.



Nilgiri said:


> The actual results in NYC district ocasio cortes runs in are showing some very interesting trends now (as democrats go full on with the progressive socialism and abandon traditional working class pragmatic common sense stuff that was once their forte):
> 
> https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...-divide-wars-working-class-blue-collar-221913
> 
> A key bit:
> 
> _New York's 14th Congressional District is more than 70 percent people of color, and 50 percent Hispanic. Ocasio-Cortez, who was born in the Bronx to a Puerto Rican mother, fit the district’s changing demographics, and neatly fit a larger narrative of a national Democratic Party in which increasing progressivism and diversity go hand and hand.
> 
> But a closer examination of the data tells a different story. Ocasio-Cortez’s best precincts were places like the neighborhood where Bonthius and his friends live: highly educated, whiter and richer than the district as a whole. In those neighborhoods, Ocasio-Cortez clobbered Crowley by 70 percent or more. Crowley’s best precincts, meanwhile, were the working-class African-American enclave of LeFrak City, where he got more than 60 percent of the vote, and portions of heavily Hispanic Corona. He pulled some of his best numbers in Ocasio-Cortez’s heavily Latino and African-American neighborhood of Parkchester, in the Bronx—beating her by more than 25 points on her home turf_


Lol, she mostly got her support from the White Liberals and champaign socialists (AKA Starbucks socialists, AKA iPhone socialists).

Meanwhile her own ethnic demographic voted more for Crowley the White man.

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## Cobra Arbok

update 7:15 pm November 8th: Democrat Kyrsten Sinema takes slim lead over Republican McSally, still over 500,00 votes left to count.

Labor secretary Alex Acosta has been named as a possible replacement for Sessions
Acting AG Whitigar says there was no Russian interference.

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## Arsalan

@maximuswarrior and @Haque may be you guys can share your contact numbers and take the trash talk to whatsapp? This is not the place to do it.

Thank you.

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## maximuswarrior

Arsalan said:


> @maximuswarrior and @Haque may be you guys can share your contact numbers and take the trash talk to whatsapp? This is not the place to do it.
> 
> Thank you.



I apologize, but it is clearly visible who initiated the trolling.


----------



## Desert Fox

Hear these Democrat terrorists make open threats to Fox News anchorman Tucker Carlson and his wife and kids right outside their home. I wonder what DemonRat party has to say about its supporters using violence and terrorism to intimidate those with differing opinions?

_"Tucker Carlson we're here to fight, we know where you sleep at night"_, hear these zombies chant.

*Rabid Democrat Lynch Mob Besieges Home of Fox News Reporter Tucker Carlson*​


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1060341999142871040

*A protest outside the Washington, D.C. home of Fox News host Tucker Carlson has lead to a criminal investigation from police. Twitter has suspended the anti-fascist group that promoted the protest and tweeted Carlson's address.*

About 20 protesters gathered in front of Carlson’s home Wednesday night, chanting loudly and using a bullhorn, according to a police report obtained by CBS News. Carlson said he was at his Fox News office, preparing for his 8 p.m. show, and his wife Susie was home alone at the time. The couple’s four children were not there.

Carlson’s wife said she heard “loud banging and pounding on her front door,” the police report says. When officers arrived, they found politically-charged signs left on cars in the driveway, a sign on the front door and the anarchy symbol spray painted on the driveway.

The police report describes the protest as “anti-political” and a “suspected hate crime.” *Police are investigating an offense of defacing public property, but the department told CBS News no arrests have been made.*

A group called Smash Racism D.C. posted messages on social media encouraging the protest and revealing Carlson’s address. “Fascists are vulnerable. Confront them at their homes!” the group wrote in a Facebook post. In a tweet, Smash Racism D.C. said Carlson spreads “fear into our homes” every night and would be reminded “that you are not safe either.”

In videos posted on Facebook and Twitter, protesters are heard calling Carlson a “racist scumbag” and chanting,* “Tucker Carlson, we will fight! We know where you sleep at night!”*




@Nilgiri @Psychic @LeGenD @Gomig-21 @Metanoia

@OsmanAli98

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> Hear these Democrat terrorists make open threats to Fox News anchorman Tucker Carlson and his wife and kids right outside their home. I wonder what DemonRat party has to say about its supporters using violence and terrorism to intimidate those with differing opinions?
> 
> _"Tucker Carlson we're here to fight, we know where you sleep at night"_, hear these zombies chant.
> 
> *Rabid Democrat Lynch Mob Besieges Home of Fox News Reporter Tucker Carlson*​
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1060341999142871040
> 
> *A protest outside the Washington, D.C. home of Fox News host Tucker Carlson has lead to a criminal investigation from police. Twitter has suspended the anti-fascist group that promoted the protest and tweeted Carlson's address.*
> 
> About 20 protesters gathered in front of Carlson’s home Wednesday night, chanting loudly and using a bullhorn, according to a police report obtained by CBS News. Carlson said he was at his Fox News office, preparing for his 8 p.m. show, and his wife Susie was home alone at the time. The couple’s four children were not there.
> 
> Carlson’s wife said she heard “loud banging and pounding on her front door,” the police report says. When officers arrived, they found politically-charged signs left on cars in the driveway, a sign on the front door and the anarchy symbol spray painted on the driveway.
> 
> The police report describes the protest as “anti-political” and a “suspected hate crime.” *Police are investigating an offense of defacing public property, but the department told CBS News no arrests have been made.*
> 
> A group called Smash Racism D.C. posted messages on social media encouraging the protest and revealing Carlson’s address. “Fascists are vulnerable. Confront them at their homes!” the group wrote in a Facebook post. In a tweet, Smash Racism D.C. said Carlson spreads “fear into our homes” every night and would be reminded “that you are not safe either.”
> 
> In videos posted on Facebook and Twitter, protesters are heard calling Carlson a “racist scumbag” and chanting,* “Tucker Carlson, we will fight! We know where you sleep at night!”*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Nilgiri @Psychic @LeGenD @Gomig-21 @Metanoia
> 
> @OsmanAli98



MSM is too focused on how Jim Acosta got his *** handed to him by Trump lol....rather than cover actual genuine threat to both life and first amendment. One deranged vox piece of crap actually openly supported these anitfa scumbags doing this.

In all honesty, Tucker's wife should get a firearm and learn to use it and they should probably get a bodyguard too. Antifa only learns the hard way.

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## Yankee-stani

The Polarization of American Politics is getting in my nerves


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## RabzonKhan

This guy really lives in La La land! He’s lost the House and he is still bragging, unbelievable.

Trump and his friends celebrating his "Big Victory" 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1060400336991674369
Okay, on a serious note, Trump and his supporters can pretend as much as they want, like nothing happened.

Here are some interesting facts:

So far Democrats have flipped 31 House Seats.

328 State Legislature Seats. Note, Democrats had already flipped 44 seats since 2017, the total is 372.

7 Governor seats.

In other words, since getting elected (2 years), Trump has lost 410 seats, Obama had lost 1040 seats in eight years.

Well, that hardly looks like “Big Victory”.


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> This guy really lives in La La land! He’s lost the House and he is still bragging, unbelievable.
> 
> Trump and his friends celebrating his "Big Victory"
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1060400336991674369
> Okay, on a serious note, Trump and his supporters can pretend as much as they want, like nothing happened.
> 
> Here are some interesting facts:
> 
> So far Democrats have flipped 31 House Seats.
> 
> 328 State Legislature Seats. Note, Democrats had already flipped 44 seats since 2017, the total is 372.
> 
> 7 Governor seats.
> 
> In other words, since getting elected (2 years), Trump has lost 410 seats, Obama had lost 1040 seats in eight years.
> 
> Well, that hardly looks like “Big Victory”.


Well, let's see what ShitLibs themselves think of their own "victory", in fact they seem rather disappointed.

From the HuffPo article @Nilgiri linked to earlier:


*Democrats won the House, but Trump won the election*​
While Tuesday night was not a complete win for Republicans, *there was no blue wave*, either. By most measures, *Republicans beat the odds of history and nearly everyone’s expectations, while Democrats were left disappointed as the fantasy of Beto O’Rourke, Andrew Gillum, Stacey Abrams and others winning fizzled*. Not one new progressive Democrat was successful bursting onto the scene. It will take a few days to process the meaning of this year’s election returns, but the instant analysis is clear: Democrats may have won the House, but Trump won the election.

As I always say, in politics, what is supposed to happen tends to happen. I predicted in August that the *Democrats would take the House but that alone was not enough for most Democrats*. As much as this year’s midterms offered an obvious opportunity to rebuke President Trump, little of what the arrogant Democrats and members of the mainstream media expected would happen actually did. So much of what they said turned out to be wrong that it will take a while before the significance becomes clear. And *if the 2018 midterms prove anything, it is that Trump is standing strong while Democrats and their allies who thought Trump would have been affirmatively rejected are in fact the ones who have themselves been denied.*

*Democrats have underperformed in comparison with the historical markers and general expectations of a midterm cycle. *The president’s party loses 37 seats in the House on average in midterm elections when his approval is below 50 percent — but Democrats aren’t projected to pick up nearly that many seats. No liberal will want to admit it, but *Trump is an asset to the Republican Party, while President Barack Obama was a disaster for the Democratic Party*.(  )


Let the message be clear: *Voters had a chance to repudiate Trump and they did not*. Much of the commentariat has said this year’s elections are about who we are as a country and what America is all about. Well, a lot of America seems to be about supporting Trump. The Democrats thought Trump’s negatives would be enough to propel them to victory. The 2018 results show it is clear they need a different plan if they think they can win in 2020.

*The midterms largely followed the conventional wisdom of how midterms are supposed to go*. The* president’s party lost some seats, but by and large what happened was far from the blue-wave rebuke that Democrats and their allies in the media said was going to happen. *So if the midterms were supposed to be bad for the GOP and all eyes were on Trump this year, the big question is whether anything about Tuesday night’s results supports the idea that Trump was a weight on Republican candidates. Is Trumpism a political blight on the Republican Party? *The answer is that Trumpism is a net plus*. What that says about the GOP and America is unclear. *But for the purposes of the 2018 midterms, Trump is a winner.*

Trump and his allies have an appeal that the elites in New York and Hollywood cannot dismiss or combat. *All of the 2018 Democratic heartthrobs lost.* That must sap the enthusiasm of the resistance. For the most part, when voters had to decide, the angry left was rejected and Trump was rewarded.



*CNN Crying "This was not a blue wave" (LOL)*​

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## Desert Fox

*Democrats Have No Platform, Other Than Hatred for Trump And Republican Voters*​

So now that Democrats have won the house, people are wondering _'what's their agenda?' _

Will they push for creating more jobs and bringing down uneployment?

Will they bolster law and order within the country and support law enforcement?

Will they fight for America's economic interests against rivals like China?

The answer to all three is a big fat: *NO! *


*So what exactly is the Democrat Party's Agenda then?*

Their agenda is to get Trump to release his tax returns to prove he's not as rich as he claims

And to impeach Justice Bret Kavanaugh.

Apparently, in the eyes of the Democrat party these things are more important than creating jobs, bolstering law enforcement and protecting America's economic interests against rivals like China.

You might be wondering _'but why?'_ Well, because "orange man bad" "he be a waicist" and "white supreemist".






https://thehill.com/policy/finance/415808-dems-mark-trump-tax-returns-as-key-part-of-agenda​




_Liberal automaton's repeating
the same mantra like mindless zombies_​




In a nutshell the Democrat party's agenda is to oppose Trump in everything he does, even if it means at the expense of the American people.

The entire Democrat platform is a _negative_ platform, it is _reactive_ rather than _proactive_, and often in the most retarded ways. It is not offering anything _positive_, unless of course one considers promises of "Free Stuff" and a "borderless country" as positives, neither of which is a practical strategy in the real world because Democrats themselves don't practice them in their personal lives by leaving the doors of their own homes open for complete strangers to enter and eat their food, sleep in their bed with their wife, daughter, sister or mother, use their bathrooms and wear their clothes.

In other words, Democrats are just a bunch of desperate hypocrites with no platform other than extreme hate, incitement of terrorism, and identity politics.







@Nilgiri @Psychic @Gomig-21 @RabzonKhan @OsmanAli98​

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> Well, let's see what ShitLibs themselves think of their own "victory", in fact they seem rather disappointed.
> 
> From the HuffPo article @Nilgiri linked to earlier:
> 
> 
> *Democrats won the House, but Trump won the election*​
> While Tuesday night was not a complete win for Republicans, *there was no blue wave*, either. By most measures, *Republicans beat the odds of history and nearly everyone’s expectations, while Democrats were left disappointed as the fantasy of Beto O’Rourke, Andrew Gillum, Stacey Abrams and others winning fizzled*. Not one new progressive Democrat was successful bursting onto the scene. It will take a few days to process the meaning of this year’s election returns, but the instant analysis is clear: Democrats may have won the House, but Trump won the election.
> 
> As I always say, in politics, what is supposed to happen tends to happen. I predicted in August that the *Democrats would take the House but that alone was not enough for most Democrats*. As much as this year’s midterms offered an obvious opportunity to rebuke President Trump, little of what the arrogant Democrats and members of the mainstream media expected would happen actually did. So much of what they said turned out to be wrong that it will take a while before the significance becomes clear. And *if the 2018 midterms prove anything, it is that Trump is standing strong while Democrats and their allies who thought Trump would have been affirmatively rejected are in fact the ones who have themselves been denied.*
> 
> *Democrats have underperformed in comparison with the historical markers and general expectations of a midterm cycle. *The president’s party loses 37 seats in the House on average in midterm elections when his approval is below 50 percent — but Democrats aren’t projected to pick up nearly that many seats. No liberal will want to admit it, but *Trump is an asset to the Republican Party, while President Barack Obama was a disaster for the Democratic Party*.(  )
> 
> 
> Let the message be clear: *Voters had a chance to repudiate Trump and they did not*. Much of the commentariat has said this year’s elections are about who we are as a country and what America is all about. Well, a lot of America seems to be about supporting Trump. The Democrats thought Trump’s negatives would be enough to propel them to victory. The 2018 results show it is clear they need a different plan if they think they can win in 2020.
> 
> *The midterms largely followed the conventional wisdom of how midterms are supposed to go*. The* president’s party lost some seats, but by and large what happened was far from the blue-wave rebuke that Democrats and their allies in the media said was going to happen. *So if the midterms were supposed to be bad for the GOP and all eyes were on Trump this year, the big question is whether anything about Tuesday night’s results supports the idea that Trump was a weight on Republican candidates. Is Trumpism a political blight on the Republican Party? *The answer is that Trumpism is a net plus*. What that says about the GOP and America is unclear. *But for the purposes of the 2018 midterms, Trump is a winner.*
> 
> Trump and his allies have an appeal that the elites in New York and Hollywood cannot dismiss or combat. *All of the 2018 Democratic heartthrobs lost.* That must sap the enthusiasm of the resistance. For the most part, when voters had to decide, the angry left was rejected and Trump was rewarded.
> 
> 
> 
> *CNN Crying "This was not a blue wave" (LOL)*​



They were desperately hoping for something like 2010 which was a complete rout for Obama (which they still have not recovered from if you look at state legislatures).

Instead, even though they were aided big time by like (big record) 50 or so House republican resignations (esp in crucial suburbia), they barely managed to scrape to a majority.....and got walloped in the Senate. Incumbency counts for a lot in house seats....Troy Balderson for example won his seat neck to neck against connor in the earlier special election in Ohio (suburb) district...but this time he pulled close to 5% ahead (against same guy) because he was incumbent this time. So tons of resignations/resets definitely squanders incumbency force....which is probably what lot of these GOP RINOs counted on as some kind of Parthian shot at Trump/MAGA base.

Its clear to see if GOP house had few resignations and got behind the Trump Agenda (which they didn't in those cases and thus resigned), they would have likely held there too. So the house is likely a necessary thing to happen for greater good of GOP and 2020. 

Democrats are in a really bad shape if these trends hold.....especially now its clear to Trump that suburbs are where the battle is to be brought to now....something he can easily adapt to...whereas Democrats simply have no adaptation in their thought process at all.

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## RabzonKhan

RabzonKhan said:


> This is one of the House races I am closely watching, I will love to see Harley Rouda wins this important race. Dana Rohrabacher is a disgrace he is so pro-Russian that he is called Putin’s favorite congressman.
> 
> 
> Meet Harley Rouda:
> 
> One of his hard-hitting ads:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *About Harley Rouda*
> 
> I’m a businessman, husband, father, and a patriot – not a politician. I love this country, and I’m running for Congress because Washington politicians have failed us for too long.
> 
> I’ve spent my career working to grow businesses large and small – helping create and support thousands of jobs. We helped our workers get ahead. Hard work, honesty, fairness and respect. Those values drove us everyday.
> 
> My wife Kaira and I have worked hard to raise our four children. We’re involved in our community and Orange County charities that help the homeless; protect victims of domestic violence; support veterans, reduce gun violence, advance educational opportunities, strengthen human rights and protect our environment.
> 
> But in Washington, too many politicians only care about themselves and their special interest campaign contributors. That’s why they’ve done nothing to reduce the cost of health care and prescription drugs, fix our crumbling roads and bridges, or make college more affordable.
> 
> I’m refusing to take any money from corporate PACs – because I will only answer to you, not drug companies, the gun lobby, or Wall Street bankers.
> 
> In Congress, I’ll use common sense to find common ground. We can make health care more affordable. We can invest in schools and career training. And we can protect Social Security and Medicare. It all starts by putting country ahead of party, and people ahead of special interests.
> 
> I respectfully ask for your vote to change Washington, and make Congress work for America and Orange County.
> 
> 
> View attachment 502684
> 
> Rouda with his family.


*Putin loses his best buddy in Congress! *

Dana Rohrabacher (Putin’s favorite congressman) defeat by the Democrat Harley Rouda ended his 30-year career in the US Congress. I was watching this race very closely, I could not wait for this loser’s defeat. I’m loving it!


May be the loser can now move to Russia.







==========================================


Kyrsten Sinema became the first Democrat to win an Arizona Senate seat in 30 years.

Thank you, Pres Trump, for the help!

WATCH: Democrat Kyrsten Sinema gives her victory speech:


----------



## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> Well, let's see what ShitLibs themselves think of their own "victory", in fact they seem rather disappointed.
> 
> From the HuffPo article @Nilgiri linked to earlier:
> 
> 
> *Democrats won the House, but Trump won the election*​
> While Tuesday night was not a complete win for Republicans, *there was no blue wave*, either. By most measures, *Republicans beat the odds of history and nearly everyone’s expectations, while Democrats were left disappointed as the fantasy of Beto O’Rourke, Andrew Gillum, Stacey Abrams and others winning fizzled*. Not one new progressive Democrat was successful bursting onto the scene. It will take a few days to process the meaning of this year’s election returns, but the instant analysis is clear: Democrats may have won the House, but Trump won the election.
> 
> As I always say, in politics, what is supposed to happen tends to happen. I predicted in August that the *Democrats would take the House but that alone was not enough for most Democrats*. As much as this year’s midterms offered an obvious opportunity to rebuke President Trump, little of what the arrogant Democrats and members of the mainstream media expected would happen actually did. So much of what they said turned out to be wrong that it will take a while before the significance becomes clear. And *if the 2018 midterms prove anything, it is that Trump is standing strong while Democrats and their allies who thought Trump would have been affirmatively rejected are in fact the ones who have themselves been denied.*
> 
> *Democrats have underperformed in comparison with the historical markers and general expectations of a midterm cycle. *The president’s party loses 37 seats in the House on average in midterm elections when his approval is below 50 percent — but Democrats aren’t projected to pick up nearly that many seats. No liberal will want to admit it, but *Trump is an asset to the Republican Party, while President Barack Obama was a disaster for the Democratic Party*.(  )
> 
> 
> Let the message be clear: *Voters had a chance to repudiate Trump and they did not*. Much of the commentariat has said this year’s elections are about who we are as a country and what America is all about. Well, a lot of America seems to be about supporting Trump. The Democrats thought Trump’s negatives would be enough to propel them to victory. The 2018 results show it is clear they need a different plan if they think they can win in 2020.
> 
> *The midterms largely followed the conventional wisdom of how midterms are supposed to go*. The* president’s party lost some seats, but by and large what happened was far from the blue-wave rebuke that Democrats and their allies in the media said was going to happen. *So if the midterms were supposed to be bad for the GOP and all eyes were on Trump this year, the big question is whether anything about Tuesday night’s results supports the idea that Trump was a weight on Republican candidates. Is Trumpism a political blight on the Republican Party? *The answer is that Trumpism is a net plus*. What that says about the GOP and America is unclear. *But for the purposes of the 2018 midterms, Trump is a winner.*
> 
> Trump and his allies have an appeal that the elites in New York and Hollywood cannot dismiss or combat. *All of the 2018 Democratic heartthrobs lost.* That must sap the enthusiasm of the resistance. For the most part, when voters had to decide, the angry left was rejected and Trump was rewarded.
> 
> 
> 
> *CNN Crying "This was not a blue wave" (LOL)*​


First of all, opinions do not change the facts, everyone has a right to their opinion, but they do not change the facts. So far, Democrats have defeated more than 418 Republicans and that number is still growing.

But just for fun, I did watch the two CNN clips you posted, both are from November 6, and the reaction of CNN commentators were when the initial results were coming in, you should check what they’re saying NOW, trust me, you won’t like it. 

And sorry to disappoint you, since you put so much effort in highlighting Ed Rogers Washington Post opinion piece, you and *@Nilgiri* certainly did not even know that Ed Rogers is not “ShitLibs” , he is actually a Right-Wing pro-Trump lifelong Republican. What would one expect from him?!

For your information, Washington Post has an opinions section where right-wing and conservatives can write their opinions.


----------



## RabzonKhan

*DISGRACEFUL!!! Donald Trump is a NO SHOW at Event to Honor Fallen Marines!*






*VOTER ALERT!!! Republicans are Endangering Our Democracy!*
*



*


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> First of all, opinions do not change the facts, everyone has a right to their opinion, but they do not change the facts. So far, Democrats have defeated more than 418 Republicans and that number is still growing.
> 
> But just for fun, I did watch the two CNN clips you posted, both are from November 6, and the reaction of CNN commentators were when the initial results were coming in, you should check what they’re saying NOW, trust me, you won’t like it.
> 
> And sorry to disappoint you, since you put so much effort in highlighting Ed Rogers Washington Post opinion piece, you and *@Nilgiri* certainly did not even know that Ed Rogers is not “ShitLibs” , he is actually a Right-Wing pro-Trump lifelong Republican. What would one expect from him?!
> 
> For your information, Washington Post has an opinions section where right-wing and conservatives can write their opinions.




So Jake "there is no blue wave" Tapeworm on CNN is a conservative now too LOL.

Or how about Trevor "a blue smurf peeing" Noah?

Lets face it, blue wave would entail a senate flip given the level of voter fraud dems are engaged in now. Too bad the patriot Americans stopped it again.

Only 25% state legislature seats were reclaimed (of the 1000+ of those lost by Obummer) in the midterm by dems....thats a pathetic showing. Its gonna be fun to gerrymander swing states in 2021 so that the democrat cancer can be totally expunged once and for all from the executive branch. Phase 2 is to let Antifa do their thing as they get more desperate, cordoned off in the inner cities with only libtards around them....the whole "liberals get the bullet too" rigmarole.

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## RabzonKhan

Oh my goodness, Fox News supports CNN over Trump, after losing the election Bigley, that’s the last thing Trump wants…….Et tu Brute. 



*Fox News stands with CNN: ‘Passes for working White House journalists should never be weaponized’
*
Fox News announced on Wednesday that it supports CNN’s efforts to restore Jim Acosta’s White House credential after the network filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration.

“Fox News supports CNN in its legal effort to regain its White House reporter’s press credential. We intend to file an amicus brief with the U.S. District Court. Secret Service passes for working White House journalists should never be weaponized. While we don’t condone the growing antagonistic tone by both the president and the press at recent media avails, we do support a free press, access and open exchanges for the American people,” Fox News President Jay Wallace said in a statement. *Read more*



===========================

*Diversity on stark display as House’s incoming freshmen gather in Washington





*
© Melina Mara/The Washington Post Photographs of the members-elect of the 116th Congress were distributed on Capitol Hill in Washington on Nov. 13, 2018.


The most diverse House freshman class in history convened Tuesday for the first time since last week’s elections.

But of the two political parties’ freshman gatherings, only one looked something like the country as a whole.

The incoming lawmakers — memorialized in a flier that circulated on Capitol Hill — are overwhelmingly white on the Republican side, with only one woman, while women and people of color are a majority of the newcomers on the Democratic side.

As the incoming members gathered at a hotel in Southeast Washington, several Democrats said they hoped that the diversity of their numbers would inform the party’s approach to policy.

“It brings a different perspective to the table,” said Rep.-elect Kendra Horn (Okla.), the first Democratic woman elected to Congress from her state, adding: “I’m very excited to be part of this new class that looks a lot more like our communities.”

The freshmen were projected ahead of the election to be younger, more female and more racially diverse, the embodiment of a coalition that helped Barack Obama win the White House in 2008. The new members include several firsts for Congress — the first Muslim women, the first Native American women and the first African American women from several states.

The diversity underscored a looming debate for Democrats ahead of 2020, when the party will choose its candidate to challenge President Trump. A large group of up-and-coming Democrats, including several women and minorities, have shown interest in presidential bids. *Read more*


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## Nilgiri




----------



## RabzonKhan

The blue wave continues! Democrats win more House seats: 

*Maine:*

Democrat Jared Golden defeated Republican Rep. Bruce Poliquin in Maine's 2nd District House race.

*New Jersey:*

Republican Tom MacArthur lost his seat to Democratic challenger Andy Kim, resulting in a near-wipeout for the GOP in New Jersey. 

With MacArthur's loss, Democrats successfully flipped four Republican seats in New Jersey in the midterm elections this year, some of which had been held by the GOP for decades. 

*California:*

Katie Porter defeated California incumbent Republican Rep. Mimi Walters.

Democrat Josh Harder beat out four-term Republican Rep. Jeff Denham in California’s 10th Congressional District.


----------



## RabzonKhan

Nilgiri said:


> So Jake "there is no blue wave" Tapeworm on CNN is a conservative now too LOL.
> 
> Or how about Trevor "a blue smurf peeing" Noah?
> 
> Lets face it, blue wave would entail a senate flip given the level of voter fraud dems are engaged in now. Too bad the patriot Americans stopped it again.
> 
> Only 25% state legislature seats were reclaimed (of the 1000+ of those lost by Obummer) in the midterm by dems....thats a pathetic showing. Its gonna be fun to gerrymander swing states in 2021 so that the democrat cancer can be totally expunged once and for all from the executive branch. Phase 2 is to let Antifa do their thing as they get more desperate, cordoned off in the inner cities with only libtards around them....the whole "liberals get the bullet too" rigmarole.


I did not say Jake was a conservative please read my post again, in any case, quite frankly, opinions of journalists and commentators does not matter, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. I will respond once election results are complete and prove through historical data analysis that this was indeed a blue wave.


----------



## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 519569
> 
> 
> The blue wave continues! Democrats win more House seats:
> 
> *Maine:*
> 
> Democrat Jared Golden defeated Republican Rep. Bruce Poliquin in Maine's 2nd District House race.
> 
> *New Jersey:*
> 
> Republican Tom MacArthur lost his seat to Democratic challenger Andy Kim, resulting in a near-wipeout for the GOP in New Jersey.
> 
> With MacArthur's loss, Democrats successfully flipped four Republican seats in New Jersey in the midterm elections this year, some of which had been held by the GOP for decades.
> 
> *California:*
> 
> Katie Porter defeated California incumbent Republican Rep. Mimi Walters.
> 
> Democrat Josh Harder beat out four-term Republican Rep. Jeff Denham in California’s 10th Congressional District.



Democrats are well known to bring out the zombie votes (as usual) when the % difference is close enough on the ground. Only now are GOP finally starting to actually fight back and not fold over (loving the reaction of Mimi Walters, Young Kim, not to mention Florida GOP so far)....and now the champion of Dumbocrat party Avenatti (creepy **** lawyer) is now arrested and charged with domestic abuse (and suddenly all the anti-kavanaugh ppl all hypocritically revert back to supporting due process LOL)

Thank god for GOP going to be able to gerrymander the shit out of them again come 2021 (pushing suburbia dems to increasingly live electorally next to antifa/inner city scum and see just what levels of self-harm they are supporting). Thanks Obama! Your legacy of losing 1000 state legislature seats (bankrupting DNC in the process and needing a killary bailout in exchange for okaying the primary rigging) and creating the rise of Trump (due to your unfettered intersectional identity politicking) has some great long term consequences for the real USA.

@Desert Fox @Psychic @Hamartia Antidote more and more people are now finally understanding the base-ideology of the progressive wing (taking over) the Demonrat party (warning: this is all sickening but all true, NSFW etc):






Crowder channel has really grown, they passed 1 million subs not too long ago and now they are past 3 million. Again nice timing for 2020....some great anti-incumbency against house dems (who cant even all get behind Piglosi) going to happen.



RabzonKhan said:


> I did not say Jake was a conservative please read my post again,



Didn't say you did. I'm just saying since he is major voice on CNN, its clear there is a recognition by the pragmatists there that this was not a blue wave. (Trevor Noah another leftie wanting an actual blue wave as promised, called it a blue smurf peeing LOL.....finally he said something half funny).

2010 was a red wave.....(and GOP simply campaigned on basically one thing: where are the jobs? where is the real change?). What was it 63 seat house change in their favour....AND 6 seat gain in the senate. Not a 1/2 result with only half the change in house based on much more spread local issues (and near complete media control by one side). 

Trump was helped a lot (against all the media bias) by the economy improving big time on the ground (real facts, real truth) inspite of what demtards said from day 1 (that trump will ruin the economy, ORANGE MAN BAD NPC stuff etc etc) and then promised a comprehensive mueller verdict and impeachment on top of it (which is now fizzing out big time and going to be a huge self-goal come 2020). I mean Roger Stone and some other no name crap-thrower are the next (rumored) "indictments"? LOL....this is all going to be priceless given the time and effort and guarantees invested by the demonrat party. No wonder CNN viewership is at an all time low and declining even further. People are realising just how sycophantic the media is, completely partisan and controlled by the groupthink plantation party that literally has a jackass as its symbol haha.

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## Arsalan

maximuswarrior said:


> I apologize, but it is clearly visible who initiated the trolling.


It is, and i have not issued an infraction/warning or anything to anyone. Just a suggestion to both involved parties that this is not the way to do it. I hope both of you will avoid the useless exercise bro. Thank you.

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## Cobra Arbok

the fact is dems will likely pick up 33-35 seats, which is good for them but nothing unusual for midterm elections. If anything, that is unimpressive compared to the number of seats repubs picked up in 2010. dems are also bragging about how the picked up 7 governorships and flipped 6 legislative chambers, but most of those were in blue leaning states which had open deats. Republicans won the most important sttes in florida, iowa, ohio, new hampshire, flipped alaska and nearly flipped conneticut. the dems biggest wins were flipping arizona and nevada in the senate because it means they have a chance of winning in 2020, but repubs will have 23 seats, enough to confirm trumps judicial nominees and block anything the house does, and dems will still have to win 4 seats in 2020 to flip the senate if trump does not win. in the meantime, dems will not be able to do anything but start investigations thatblead nowhere, sonrepubs still have a more powerful position in government.

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## cloud4000

Ever since the election, Trump has not tweeted or mentioned about the migrant caravan that is about to invade the US, or the fact that thousands of US troops are at a border waiting for them, costing the taxpayer millions.


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## Nilgiri

Cobra Arbok said:


> the fact is dems will likely pick up 33-35 seats, which is good for them but nothing unusual for midterm elections. If anything, that is unimpressive compared to the number of seats repubs picked up in 2010. dems are also bragging about how the picked up 7 governorships and flipped 6 legislative chambers, but most of those were in blue leaning states which had open deats. Republicans won the most important sttes in florida, iowa, ohio, new hampshire, flipped alaska and nearly flipped conneticut. the dems biggest wins were flipping arizona and nevada in the senate because it means they have a chance of winning in 2020, but repubs will have 23 seats, enough to confirm trumps judicial nominees and block anything the house does, and dems will still have to win 4 seats in 2020 to flip the senate if trump does not win. in the meantime, dems will not be able to do anything but start investigations thatblead nowhere, sonrepubs still have a more powerful position in government.



There is massive systemic voter fraud going on by the dems...that will only now slowly change back to previous status quo:

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## gangsta_rap

dems are gonna kick *** of all these edgelords. expect chimpouts from these freaks and mass shootings as usual


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## Cobra Arbok

GIANTsasquatch said:


> dems are gonna kick *** of all these edgelords. expect chimpouts from these freaks and mass shootings as usual


yes the dems with a whoppong 15 seat majority in the house are going to defeat the 53 republicans in the senae who can approve judicial nominees and have the power to block whatever the house passes
The dems will not be able to do anything but start circuses that will be put down by the senate. The senate meanwhile will be able to confirm 64 judicial nominees and give trump more judicial confirmations than likely any other president in us history.

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## Nilgiri

Democrat congressman swallwell tweets that AR-15 owners could be nuked in a disarmament (anti-2A) war effort:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1063527635114852352





Lovely fella aint he? @Desert Fox @Cobra Arbok @Psychic @OsmanAli98 @Metanoia

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## Metanoia

Nilgiri said:


> Democrat congressman swallwell tweets that AR-15 owners could be nuked in a disarmament (anti-2A) war effort:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1063527635114852352
> View attachment 520077
> 
> 
> Lovely fella aint he? @Desert Fox @Cobra Arbok @Psychic @OsmanAli98 @Metanoia



Typical retardation of the society as a whole.

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## RabzonKhan

*We’re Tracking The Unresolved Midterm Races*
*And which way they’re leaning.*

UPDATE (Nov. 16, 7:00 p.m., 2018): We’ve updated the text below with the latest news and data. We’ve also removed the Arizona U.S. Senate race,
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-16-races-still-too-close-to-call/#fn-1
Everyone has voted, the results are in and we know who will control the Senate and the House — but several races remain unresolved. (We warned you this might happen.) As of 7:00 p.m. on Friday, Nov. 16, news outlets have yet to project winners in 10 races: two for the U.S. Senate, seven for the U.S. House and one for governor. These races have the potential to meaningfully change the narrative around this election — for example, Democrats could pick up 43 House seats instead of 36, or turn a disappointing showing in the Senate into a draw. Here’s the state of each undecided race — including our best estimate of who might prevail when all is said and done. *Read more*



Nilgiri said:


> *Didn't say you did. I'm just saying since he is major voice on CNN, its clear there is a recognition by the pragmatists there that this was not a blue wave.* (Trevor Noah another leftie wanting an actual blue wave as promised, called it a blue smurf peeing LOL.....finally he said something half funny).
> 
> 2010 was a red wave.....(and GOP simply campaigned on basically one thing: where are the jobs? where is the real change?). What was it 63 seat house change in their favour....AND 6 seat gain in the senate. Not a 1/2 result with only half the change in house based on much more spread local issues (and near complete media control by one side).
> 
> Trump was helped a lot (against all the media bias) by the economy improving big time on the ground (real facts, real truth) inspite of what demtards said from day 1 (that trump will ruin the economy, ORANGE MAN BAD NPC stuff etc etc) and then promised a comprehensive mueller verdict and impeachment on top of it (which is now fizzing out big time and going to be a huge self-goal come 2020). I mean Roger Stone and some other no name crap-thrower are the next (rumored) "indictments"? LOL....this is all going to be priceless given the time and effort and guarantees invested by the demonrat party. No wonder CNN viewership is at an all time low and declining even further. People are realising just how sycophantic the media is, completely partisan and controlled by the groupthink plantation party that literally has a jackass as its symbol haha.


You clearly missed the point I was trying to make, I was trying to point out that Jake made those comments prematurely only two hours after election results started coming in from the East Coast and I’m pretty sure you already know that we have four time zones, the polls were not even closed on the Pacific (where I live) and Mountain. And that’s why I think his comments are rubbish.


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## Cobra Arbok

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 520391
> 
> *We’re Tracking The Unresolved Midterm Races*
> *And which way they’re leaning.*
> 
> UPDATE (Nov. 16, 7:00 p.m., 2018): We’ve updated the text below with the latest news and data. We’ve also removed the Arizona U.S. Senate race,
> Everyone has voted, the results are in and we know who will control the Senate and the House — but several races remain unresolved. (We warned you this might happen.) As of 7:00 p.m. on Friday, Nov. 16, news outlets have yet to project winners in 10 races: two for the U.S. Senate, seven for the U.S. House and one for governor. These races have the potential to meaningfully change the narrative around this election — for example, Democrats could pick up 43 House seats instead of 36, or turn a disappointing showing in the Senate into a draw. Here’s the state of each undecided race — including our best estimate of who might prevail when all is said and done. *Read more*
> 
> 
> You clearly missed the point I was trying to make, I was trying to point out that Jake made those comments prematurely only two hours after election results started coming in from the East Coast and I’m pretty sure you already know that we have four time zones, the polls were not even closed on the Pacific (where I live) and Mountain. And that’s why I think his comments are rubbish.


Still democrats are at most going to win a net of 38 seats because republicans also picked up 3 seats. that is consistent witj historical trends. A real wave was 2010, when the gop won over 60 seats and picked up seats in the senate. Also Rick Scott was just announced the winner in florida which means Republicans will have 53 seats unless dems somehow win in Mississippi. This is one of the first times since ww2 that the party in the white house gains rather than loses senate seats. Losing arizona and nevada was unfortunate, but the gop still has enough seats that the democrats will have a hard time taking control of the senate in 2020. So if this is a blue wave, it was not enough to wash away trump's red wall. If anything, the red wall grew bigger.


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## RabzonKhan

Democrats have won all six House seats in Orange County, California. History is made, first time since 1930 not a single Republican was able to win from there. Orange County was known as Reagan country, birthplace of Richard Nixon and bastion of conservatism, but thanks to Trump’s politics of racial demagoguery the largely suburban county’s college-educated middle-class Whites turned their backs on the Republicans. 









Cobra Arbok said:


> Still democrats are at most going to win a net of 38 seats because republicans also picked up 3 seats. that is consistent witj historical trends. A real wave was 2010, when the gop won over 60 seats and picked up seats in the senate. Also Rick Scott was just announced the winner in florida which means Republicans will have 53 seats unless dems somehow win in Mississippi. This is one of the first times since ww2 that the party in the white house gains rather than loses senate seats. Losing arizona and nevada was unfortunate, but the gop still has enough seats that the democrats will have a hard time taking control of the senate in 2020. So if this is a blue wave, it was not enough to wash away trump's red wall. If anything, the red wall grew bigger.


Three House and one Senate races are still undecided, let’s wait for all the results to come in and then we can discuss this further.



Nilgiri said:


> Democrat congressman swallwell tweets that AR-15 owners could be nuked in a disarmament (anti-2A) war effort:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1063527635114852352
> View attachment 520077
> 
> 
> Lovely fella aint he? @Desert Fox @Cobra Arbok @Psychic @OsmanAli98 @Metanoia








But never mind, carry on, whatever floats your boat.


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> Democrats have won all six House seats in Orange County, California. History is made, first time since 1930 not a single Republican was able to win from there. Orange County was known as Reagan country, birthplace of Richard Nixon and bastion of conservatism, but thanks to Trump’s politics of racial demagoguery the largely suburban county’s college-educated middle-class Whites turned their backs on the Republicans.



Commiefornia has pretty much unsurmountable amounts of voter fraud now (even never-trumpers are saying so and highlighting the evidence for it). Not to mention there is a long term trend going on inside california (esp ever since Reagan amnesty that legalised millions of latino voters) well before Trump ever arrived on the scene (similar to long term trend how the KKK-democrat party lost the south once the KKK couldn't operate like it once used to anymore). Byrd the KKK grand wizard was after all Hillary "black youth are superpredators" Clinton's mentor. Where did the platforms of gun control and pro-abortion come from after all in the democrat party? It was to keep guns away from black people and impose forced statist eugenics on them. This is what is causing more and more black people to abandon the democrap party now as they realise the dems never ever really changed at heart....just optically tried to make it so. Those gated elite dems dont care about the working class or minorities at all...just want their votes so absolute groupthink based power can prevail. It is seen even in NYC now (occasio cortez is not winning the areas of the city where working class latinos and blacks are present....rather only gated NPC white elite vote for her in droves).

Demonrats have basically shifted to new ways of enforcing the same groupthink identity politics (With antifa now replacing the KKK - same tactics, just optical ideology feelz shift) on the dem plantation. It will be finally conclusive to have the weakling inner city dem antifa types (and NPC enablers) actually face off in an actual civil war they seem hellbent on instigating and pulling rest of demonrat party with....they don't get to run to mommy's basement in those....and their complete lack of experience with firearms (waaaaah 2nd amendment BAD, orange man BAD) will be brutally highlighted to them. Hence I support demonrat party going further and further left and pandering to its "progressive" radicals....including woman-beater Keith Ellison (dont believe that woman though, its a democrat!) and Woman face puncher Avennati (again dont believe that woman!, democrats can never be guilty of that...much less doing that AND then claiming to be a defender of #metoo movement lol)



RabzonKhan said:


> But never mind, carry on, whatever floats your boat.



So demonrats get the "sarcasm" excuse....but never can be applied to republicans (they must be taken at their word only all the time??). 

All you have to personally do is put shoe on the other foot, what if Trump "sarcastically" used the same language as swallow-well? Would you have replied "meh its just sarcasm"? 

But then again what can we expect from those fully in the dbl standard hypocrite koolaid, heck even Jake Tapper (an example of one of the more fairer hosts not completely soaked in it) is calling out the double standards on display by the demonrats (notably both Killary and Sherrod Brown) in saying the Georgia and Florida Governor elections were unfair and results not valid. The double standards by the dems has gotten to that appalling level that even CNN calls it out lol:

(Time stamp 5.20 Jake tapper):






And of course there we have the same deluded dem "analysts" justifying it away hahaha. Its "real issues" when its the dems LOL....but actual evidence of voter fraud by the dems (and now Brenda Snipes having to resign haha)....nope! nothing to see there!

Anyways its going to be real fun gerrymandering the crap out of the loser dems come 2021. Good 2018 midterm suburb data to help with it now too.

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## RabzonKhan

*Thanksgiving Themed Political Cartoons*

*



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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> Democrat congressman swallwell tweets that AR-15 owners could be nuked in a disarmament (anti-2A) war effort:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1063527635114852352
> View attachment 520077
> 
> 
> Lovely fella aint he? @Desert Fox @Cobra Arbok @Psychic @OsmanAli98 @Metanoia


Democrats with their usual terrorist rhetoric, threatening to behead people (Kathy Griffin), shoot Republicans and now threatening to use Nuclear weapons on own people? If these people get into power they will make Stalin look like a boy scout in comparison.

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## Falcon29

Both Republicans and Democrats are weird people who are passionate(likely fake passion) about weird causes. Meant to distract for more important causes.


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> but thanks to Trump’s politics of racial demagoguery the largely suburban county’s college-educated middle-class Whites turned their backs on the Republicans.


Actually not true, those Republicans who lost those areas were not Trumpservatives but rather cuckservatives, the Jeb Bush types, who are pro globalist policies, etc. In other words they are not that much different from the Demonrats.



RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 521473


So dems all of a sudden care that the Saudi regime is ruthless and murders dissidents? Is that why under Obama, Clinton and every Democrat administration Saudi Arabia was placed under sanctions?

Oh wait, never mind, Obummer the useless babbler made defense and trade agreements with the Saudis even as they supported ISIS in Libya and Syria.

PS, Demonrats only care about dead people when they can use them for political purpose

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## Desert Fox

get a load of this

*Hillary Clinton Blames “Vitriolic Jew Media” for 2016 Election Loss*​

By Shmuley Ben Shekelheim
*New York Times*
November 24, 2018




“I think Europe needs to get a handle on migration because that is what lit the flame,” Clinton told The Guardian 1 earlier this week when asked why she lost the 2016 election.

For many, it appeared that by blaming her election loss on child refugees escaping the brutal civil war in Syria, Clinton was going down a dark new path *in her seemingly never-ending quest to find new people, institutions and abstract concepts to blame for the results of the 2016 election*. Those concerned now appear to be completely vindicated.

Speaking at a forum in Washington on Friday, the former Secretary of State and 2016 Democratic Presidential nominee indulged in virulent anti-Semitic canards and *blamed an alleged Jewish conspiracy for her 2016 election loss*.

At the forum put on by The Atlantic, Clinton told publisher Jeffrey Goldberg that* “the vitriolic Jew media” played a role in her failure to win the election,* before spinning off the rails into an extended anti-Semitic rant.

The video of the event has since been deleted from The Atlantic’s YouTube channel, but has been reuploaded on several other video-sharing sites.

Most politicians and media pundits are claiming that this is “the final end of Hillary Clinton,” however, many in the emergent “progressive wing” of the Party appeared to endorse Clinton’s hate-filled, white supremacist, neo-Nazi and inaccurate rant.




The event started out comfortably, until the question of blaming Syrian children was raised by Goldberg.

“Earlier this week, you told The Guardian that you feel that child refugees from Syria held some of the blame for the rise of Trump. Do you think it’s fair to blame innocent children who were fleeing the dictator Assad’s brutal barrel-bombing campaign for an election loss on a separate continent?” Goldberg asked.

“I don’t know if it is fair or unfair, Goldberg,” Clinton replied. “It’s simply a fact that the decision to march an army of Middle Easterners into Europe is something that was used by Donald Trump to win the 2016 election. *And, you know, I just want to add that you people weren’t so helpful either, with all of your outrageous sensationalism and bad advice.”*

“And by ‘you people,’ I assume you mean the media,” Goldberg said, beginning to look visibly uncomfortable.

*“Yes, the vitriolic Jew media in this country simply did not know when to dial it back*. *Far from promoting me, you Jews simply attacked Trump as some kind of cartoonishly maniacal Hitler figure in a way that struck normal working and middle class voters as bizarre and unhinged,” *Clinton said while angrily throwing out a finger at Goldberg.




“Secretary Clinton, I really don’t think it’s appropriate to talk about the ‘Jewish media.’ This is a well-known anti-Semitic canard that goes back decades, and has been used by the very right-wing populists that support Donald Trump and his racist agenda,” Goldberg said, his forehead shiny with sweat. “Would you maybe like to rephrase that statement? This is being broadcast live on YouTube.”

“What is your ethnicity, Goldberg?” Clinton demanded of her host.

After a pause, Goldberg eventually replied: “As you know, Secretary Clinton, I happen to be the publisher of The Atlantic and I happen to be Jewish, but that doesn’t mean that -”

Hillary Clinton interrupted Goldberg, and began a virulently anti-Semitic rant, engaging in multiple false tropes and canards.

*"Oh give me a break, Goldberg. The heads of CNN, NBC, ABC, the New York Times and the Washington Post also are just Jewish by coincidence?* Do you really believe that people are still buying that? You Jews claimed to support me, that rat Nate Silver told me I was going to win every single day, that the people were behind me, but you media Jews drove people over the edge. The hysteria, Goldberg, it was more than anyone could handle. These vicious attacks on all white people are simply going over the top, and you don’t seem to be able to grasp that.

*"Look around you, at what is going on in the Democratic Party now. It is being taken over by communists, with your man Bernie leading the charge. These communists are people of color who you know the average white American is never going to support. *Furthermore, you Jews sunk your own ship, because this new version of the Democrat Party is never going to go along with this program to send all of these billions and billions to your home country of Israel.

"And they don’t even know that you lot are not white people - they want to wipe you out just like they’re going to wipe out Nancy Pelosi and every other white Democrat. Alexandria whatever-her-name is is already calling for whites to be removed from the Party - as she at the same time calls you Jews murderers for killing all those Arabs and starting all those wars.

"And where was your girl Debbie during the election, Goldberg? People want to talk about my emails, but how about her emails? How about her server, that she didn’t secure? At least my server was secure - Julian Assange never got a hold of anything on my server, did he Goldberg? But Debbie let the whole thing go, straight to Russia, and then you Jews hand me Donna Brazil, who is, well… We all know all about her.

*“If I’m going to be perfectly honest with you, Goldberg, you Jews are the single group most responsible for my loss. *If you would have let me run on the same platform as Bill ran on, we’d have sailed through. *Instead, you’ve continued to go up and up and away with your weird transsexual stuff and the endless immigration and calls for murder of white people *- what did you think was going to happen? Why would white people vote for a political party which is openly saying it is going to replace them with brown people from the third world? It doesn’t make any sense, Goldberg, and you Jews should have calculated this better. You should have gone a little bit more slowly. That’s why I lost the election. Because you Jews simply couldn’t wait. You’ve run this Party straight into the ground, and now it’s you that are going to have to deal with the consequences.”

When she stopped ranting, her face was visibly red, while Goldberg was dripping with sweat, his swollen, bloated face looking like a melting scoop of ice cream.

“Are you finished?” Goldberg asked.

Secretary Clinton nodded her head.

“Well, I would just like to tell the audience that everything she just said is a falsehood and a distortion. These are classic anti-Semitic canards. I am not Israeli, I am American, there is no ‘Jewish agenda,’ Jews do not control the media, nor do we manipulate politics. All of this is false, and I am not sure if Secretary Clinton has lost her mind or if she’s just been spending too much time reading Infowars.com, but this is a travesty, and I apologize to everyone here in the audience and everyone watching this online,” Goldberg said, before getting up and walking off stage.

Hillary could be seen laughing as the video stream cut out.




Politicians were quick to denounce, with Chuck Schumer *calling Clinton “a vile and evil monster,” and saying she is “spreading the same message of hate that caused the Holocaust of six million Jews by Adolf Hitler.”*

Hours after the event, the House and Senate each issued bipartisan resolutions denouncing Clinton as “the purest incarnation of true evil on planet earth,” which added that “her words are likely to lead to more shootings of synagogues, just as the Holocaust was caused by words.”

Donald Trump, who is himself a white supremacist, has yet to make a statement on Clinton’s white supremacist statements. However, shortly after The Atlantic event, he tweeted “ayy lmao.”




"lmao” is internet slang for “laughing my @ss off,” and according to knowyourmeme.com 1, “ayy lmao” is a phrase often accompanied by an image of an alien smoking marijuana. It is unclear what the President meant by this.

The estate of John McCain issued a statement saying: “We must all remember that the Holocaust began with people claiming falsely that Jews are powerful and influential in society. John McCain denounces Hillary Clinton’s hateful white supremacist statements from beyond the grave.”

Jonathan Greenblatt, the head of the Anti-Defamation League, an anti-racist group, *issued a statement denouncing Clinton as both a white supremacist and a neo-Nazi.*

“The white supremacist and neo-Nazi leader Hillary Clinton is about to find out what happens to people who claim that Jews are powerful and influential,” the statement said.

Greenblatt later told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria that Hillary Clinton’s rant was exactly why there needs to be more censorship on the internet, saying, “someone radicalized Hillary Clinton. Clearly, she was not a neo-Nazi or a white supremacist two years ago, and now she has become both, so we need to look at how people are being radicalized, and it’s because they’re reading all these websites and seeing all of these memes on social media.”




David Frum, a writer for The Atlantic who also appeared on the panel, agreed with Greenblatt that there is simply no reason that a person would believe in Nazi concepts like Jews controlling the media “unless they’ve been radicalized by memes.”

The Southern Poverty Law Center, another anti-racism group which often defends Jewish people from attacks by neo-Nazis and the KKK, announced that they are filing multiple lawsuits against Clinton.

They also updated their Hate Map to identify Hillary Clinton as a statewide neo-Nazi hate group.




Hillary Clinton’s Wikipedia page was updated to reflect the fact that she is now a hate leader identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a “hate leader” and a “hate group.”




News agencies quickly and brutally moved to simultaneously denounce Hillary Clinton as a neo-Nazi and white supremacist for claiming that Jews are powerful and influential in society, which was widely interpreted as a call for genocide.

*“Clearly, this event symbolizes the final end to Hillary Clinton’s post-election rampage*, which had already begun its third year,” said CNN’s Jake Tapper. *“It seemed that she had already blamed every other group in the world, so she had to resort to blaming the oldest group of victims who have been wrongly blamed for things constantly for thousands and thousands of years: the Jews.”*




However, not all were bothered by the comments.

On Twitter, newly-elected Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez posted a video clip of the rant with the hashtags “#micdrop” and “#FreePalestine.”




When contacted by the Times, Ocasio-Cortez refused to give a statement, saying she “has nothing to say to Jews,” before accusing this reporter of “stealing the land” and calling him a “Zionist shill.”

Stacey Abrams, a progressive candidate who ran for governor in Georgia and had the election stolen from her because she is black, also appeared to endorse the statements in an interview with MSNBC’s Rev. Al Sharpton.




"You know I ain’t like dat b!tch Hill, but she be right doe,” Abrams said of Clinton. “You get in da politic, and dem Jews all be all up on you sh!t, be all like, tell a b!tch what she posed to be say, blah blah blah. Muffugguhs be like roaches, crawlin up on a b!tch. You know, a n!gga turn on the light at night, finds a buncha Jews scurryin around the room.”

“Ms. Abrams, I’m not sure you want to say that, especially since you still have a chance to win the election in Georgia *if the people working in the polling stations, who might be of a certain ethnicity, find more votes,”* Sharpton replied.

“Yeah, you right, I ain’t even be try to said nothing you know, anti-semantic, but n!gga you know those Jews be all up everywhere, get up in you face,” Abrams said.

“Well, you’re not supposed to say that on TV, that’s one thing I know. And I’m thinking you’d best just go ahead and apologize now to get it out of the way, girl, or you’re gonna be in a whole messa trouble,” Jackson said.

*Abrams then apologized to Jews, and asked them to keep finding more hidden votes in Georgia.*

However, a spokesman for the SPLC said that the apology did not seem sincere, and that they are looking into lawsuits they can file against her as revenge for the promotion of neo-Nazism. *The SPLC also issued a statement publicly asking the Jewish community of Georgia to “stop finding more votes for a woman who promotes neo-Nazism.”*




"The last thing that Georgia needs is a governor who is a follower of the ideals of Adolf Hitler,” the SPLC’s Heidi Beirich told CNN.

Following The Atlantic forum event, Twitter, Facebook, PayPal and GoDaddy all banned Hillary Clinton from using their services. Although all companies made it clear that their decisions to ban her were not connected, and they did not communicate with each other beforehand, they each issued nearly identical statements stating that it is morally wrong to suggest that Jews are powerful and influential.

Clinton’s American bank accounts were all closed. The various banks issued a joint statement that claiming Jews are powerful and influential “leads to genocide.”

Antifa showed up at the Clintons’ Chappaqua, New York home and attempted to kick in the door while shouting “hey hey, ho ho, no Nazis, no KKK, no fascist USA.” They burned an American flag in the yard and spraypainted the driveway. Bill Clinton was home alone and got scared, but police told him that the Antifa could not be arrested because they did nothing wrong.

World leaders came out to denounce Clinton’s newfound adherence to neo-Nazism and white supremacy as well. French President Emmanuel Macron broke down into tears, and said that he would be flying to Auschwitz “on the next flight out” to “pray for the souls lost to the ideology espoused by Hillary Clinton.”

Canada’s Premier Justin Trudeau held a press conference with the country’s chief rabbi, Ari Shmelheim, and was also in tears as he shouted “no more!” Trudeau also said that he would be giving “free counseling” to all Jews and anyone else who felt threatened by Hillary Clinton’s virulent hatred.

“It is simply astonishing to know that in 2018, just across our southern border, there are people who actually believe that Jews are powerful and influential,” Trudeau said. “This is what Adolf Hitler falsely believed, and it is what led him to murder 6 million Jews.”

In Germany, *Chancellor Angela Merkel remained stone-faced as she announced that she has issued a warrant for Clinton’s arrest.*

Justice Department head Rod Rosenstein *announced that the FBI would be reopening their investigation into Hillary Clinton’s email server, and also opening two different investigations into the Clinton Foundation, an investigation into collusion with Russia, and another investigation into Benghazi. After announcing the series of investigations,* *Rosenstein added that it was completely unrelated to her statements claiming that Jews are powerful and influential, and that the timing was “pure coincidence.”*




Morning Joe Scarborough, host of MSNBC’s Morning Joe, responded to the announcement live on air by saying “that really is a strange coincidence.”

His co-host, Mika Scarborough, said, “Joe, what do you mean by that?”




*He replied that he “just thinks” it is a strange coincidence that the Justice Department would announce five separate investigations into Hillary Clinton an hour and a half after she made worldwide news for having embraced neo-Nazism and white supremacy.* “It was a big day for Hillary Clinton, is all I’m saying, Mika. I’m not… look, I’m not saying anything, okay. Hillary Clinton is an evil person.”

Within minutes after the show went off air, MSNBC issued a statement saying that they had canceled Scarborough’s show, and his employment at the network has been “totally terminated.”

Four minutes later, the FBI announced that they are reopening an investigation into the 2001 death of a female intern in Joe Scarborough’s office, with a spokesperson saying “we can’t say for sure yet, but it looks like he probably killed her.”

Shortly thereafter, the SPLC announced that they are suing Scarborough for organizing a campaign of anti-Semitic harassment against Rod Rosenstein.




Source



@Nilgiri @Psychic @LeGenD @Metanoia @Hamartia Antidote

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> get a load of this
> 
> *Hillary Clinton Blames “Vitriolic Jew Media” for 2016 Election Loss*​
> 
> By Shmuley Ben Shekelheim
> *New York Times*
> November 24, 2018
> 
> View attachment 521967​
> “I think Europe needs to get a handle on migration because that is what lit the flame,” Clinton told The Guardian 1 earlier this week when asked why she lost the 2016 election.
> 
> For many, it appeared that by blaming her election loss on child refugees escaping the brutal civil war in Syria, Clinton was going down a dark new path *in her seemingly never-ending quest to find new people, institutions and abstract concepts to blame for the results of the 2016 election*. Those concerned now appear to be completely vindicated.
> 
> Speaking at a forum in Washington on Friday, the former Secretary of State and 2016 Democratic Presidential nominee indulged in virulent anti-Semitic canards and *blamed an alleged Jewish conspiracy for her 2016 election loss*.
> 
> At the forum put on by The Atlantic, Clinton told publisher Jeffrey Goldberg that* “the vitriolic Jew media” played a role in her failure to win the election,* before spinning off the rails into an extended anti-Semitic rant.
> 
> The video of the event has since been deleted from The Atlantic’s YouTube channel, but has been reuploaded on several other video-sharing sites.
> 
> Most politicians and media pundits are claiming that this is “the final end of Hillary Clinton,” however, many in the emergent “progressive wing” of the Party appeared to endorse Clinton’s hate-filled, white supremacist, neo-Nazi and inaccurate rant.
> 
> View attachment 521969​
> The event started out comfortably, until the question of blaming Syrian children was raised by Goldberg.
> 
> “Earlier this week, you told The Guardian that you feel that child refugees from Syria held some of the blame for the rise of Trump. Do you think it’s fair to blame innocent children who were fleeing the dictator Assad’s brutal barrel-bombing campaign for an election loss on a separate continent?” Goldberg asked.
> 
> “I don’t know if it is fair or unfair, Goldberg,” Clinton replied. “It’s simply a fact that the decision to march an army of Middle Easterners into Europe is something that was used by Donald Trump to win the 2016 election. *And, you know, I just want to add that you people weren’t so helpful either, with all of your outrageous sensationalism and bad advice.”*
> 
> “And by ‘you people,’ I assume you mean the media,” Goldberg said, beginning to look visibly uncomfortable.
> 
> *“Yes, the vitriolic Jew media in this country simply did not know when to dial it back*. *Far from promoting me, you Jews simply attacked Trump as some kind of cartoonishly maniacal Hitler figure in a way that struck normal working and middle class voters as bizarre and unhinged,” *Clinton said while angrily throwing out a finger at Goldberg.
> 
> View attachment 521970​
> “Secretary Clinton, I really don’t think it’s appropriate to talk about the ‘Jewish media.’ This is a well-known anti-Semitic canard that goes back decades, and has been used by the very right-wing populists that support Donald Trump and his racist agenda,” Goldberg said, his forehead shiny with sweat. “Would you maybe like to rephrase that statement? This is being broadcast live on YouTube.”
> 
> “What is your ethnicity, Goldberg?” Clinton demanded of her host.
> 
> After a pause, Goldberg eventually replied: “As you know, Secretary Clinton, I happen to be the publisher of The Atlantic and I happen to be Jewish, but that doesn’t mean that -”
> 
> Hillary Clinton interrupted Goldberg, and began a virulently anti-Semitic rant, engaging in multiple false tropes and canards.
> 
> *"Oh give me a break, Goldberg. The heads of CNN, NBC, ABC, the New York Times and the Washington Post also are just Jewish by coincidence?* Do you really believe that people are still buying that? You Jews claimed to support me, that rat Nate Silver told me I was going to win every single day, that the people were behind me, but you media Jews drove people over the edge. The hysteria, Goldberg, it was more than anyone could handle. These vicious attacks on all white people are simply going over the top, and you don’t seem to be able to grasp that.
> 
> *"Look around you, at what is going on in the Democratic Party now. It is being taken over by communists, with your man Bernie leading the charge. These communists are people of color who you know the average white American is never going to support. *Furthermore, you Jews sunk your own ship, because this new version of the Democrat Party is never going to go along with this program to send all of these billions and billions to your home country of Israel.
> 
> "And they don’t even know that you lot are not white people - they want to wipe you out just like they’re going to wipe out Nancy Pelosi and every other white Democrat. Alexandria whatever-her-name is is already calling for whites to be removed from the Party - as she at the same time calls you Jews murderers for killing all those Arabs and starting all those wars.
> 
> "And where was your girl Debbie during the election, Goldberg? People want to talk about my emails, but how about her emails? How about her server, that she didn’t secure? At least my server was secure - Julian Assange never got a hold of anything on my server, did he Goldberg? But Debbie let the whole thing go, straight to Russia, and then you Jews hand me Donna Brazil, who is, well… We all know all about her.
> 
> *“If I’m going to be perfectly honest with you, Goldberg, you Jews are the single group most responsible for my loss. *If you would have let me run on the same platform as Bill ran on, we’d have sailed through. *Instead, you’ve continued to go up and up and away with your weird transsexual stuff and the endless immigration and calls for murder of white people *- what did you think was going to happen? Why would white people vote for a political party which is openly saying it is going to replace them with brown people from the third world? It doesn’t make any sense, Goldberg, and you Jews should have calculated this better. You should have gone a little bit more slowly. That’s why I lost the election. Because you Jews simply couldn’t wait. You’ve run this Party straight into the ground, and now it’s you that are going to have to deal with the consequences.”
> 
> When she stopped ranting, her face was visibly red, while Goldberg was dripping with sweat, his swollen, bloated face looking like a melting scoop of ice cream.
> 
> “Are you finished?” Goldberg asked.
> 
> Secretary Clinton nodded her head.
> 
> “Well, I would just like to tell the audience that everything she just said is a falsehood and a distortion. These are classic anti-Semitic canards. I am not Israeli, I am American, there is no ‘Jewish agenda,’ Jews do not control the media, nor do we manipulate politics. All of this is false, and I am not sure if Secretary Clinton has lost her mind or if she’s just been spending too much time reading Infowars.com, but this is a travesty, and I apologize to everyone here in the audience and everyone watching this online,” Goldberg said, before getting up and walking off stage.
> 
> Hillary could be seen laughing as the video stream cut out.
> 
> View attachment 521971​
> Politicians were quick to denounce, with Chuck Schumer *calling Clinton “a vile and evil monster,” and saying she is “spreading the same message of hate that caused the Holocaust of six million Jews by Adolf Hitler.”*
> 
> Hours after the event, the House and Senate each issued bipartisan resolutions denouncing Clinton as “the purest incarnation of true evil on planet earth,” which added that “her words are likely to lead to more shootings of synagogues, just as the Holocaust was caused by words.”
> 
> Donald Trump, who is himself a white supremacist, has yet to make a statement on Clinton’s white supremacist statements. However, shortly after The Atlantic event, he tweeted “ayy lmao.”
> 
> View attachment 521972​
> "lmao” is internet slang for “laughing my @ss off,” and according to knowyourmeme.com 1, “ayy lmao” is a phrase often accompanied by an image of an alien smoking marijuana. It is unclear what the President meant by this.
> 
> The estate of John McCain issued a statement saying: “We must all remember that the Holocaust began with people claiming falsely that Jews are powerful and influential in society. John McCain denounces Hillary Clinton’s hateful white supremacist statements from beyond the grave.”
> 
> Jonathan Greenblatt, the head of the Anti-Defamation League, an anti-racist group, *issued a statement denouncing Clinton as both a white supremacist and a neo-Nazi.*
> 
> “The white supremacist and neo-Nazi leader Hillary Clinton is about to find out what happens to people who claim that Jews are powerful and influential,” the statement said.
> 
> Greenblatt later told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria that Hillary Clinton’s rant was exactly why there needs to be more censorship on the internet, saying, “someone radicalized Hillary Clinton. Clearly, she was not a neo-Nazi or a white supremacist two years ago, and now she has become both, so we need to look at how people are being radicalized, and it’s because they’re reading all these websites and seeing all of these memes on social media.”
> 
> View attachment 521973​
> David Frum, a writer for The Atlantic who also appeared on the panel, agreed with Greenblatt that there is simply no reason that a person would believe in Nazi concepts like Jews controlling the media “unless they’ve been radicalized by memes.”
> 
> The Southern Poverty Law Center, another anti-racism group which often defends Jewish people from attacks by neo-Nazis and the KKK, announced that they are filing multiple lawsuits against Clinton.
> 
> They also updated their Hate Map to identify Hillary Clinton as a statewide neo-Nazi hate group.
> 
> View attachment 521974​
> Hillary Clinton’s Wikipedia page was updated to reflect the fact that she is now a hate leader identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a “hate leader” and a “hate group.”
> 
> View attachment 521975​
> News agencies quickly and brutally moved to simultaneously denounce Hillary Clinton as a neo-Nazi and white supremacist for claiming that Jews are powerful and influential in society, which was widely interpreted as a call for genocide.
> 
> *“Clearly, this event symbolizes the final end to Hillary Clinton’s post-election rampage*, which had already begun its third year,” said CNN’s Jake Tapper. *“It seemed that she had already blamed every other group in the world, so she had to resort to blaming the oldest group of victims who have been wrongly blamed for things constantly for thousands and thousands of years: the Jews.”*
> 
> View attachment 521976​
> However, not all were bothered by the comments.
> 
> On Twitter, newly-elected Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez posted a video clip of the rant with the hashtags “#micdrop” and “#FreePalestine.”
> 
> View attachment 521977​
> When contacted by the Times, Ocasio-Cortez refused to give a statement, saying she “has nothing to say to Jews,” before accusing this reporter of “stealing the land” and calling him a “Zionist shill.”
> 
> Stacey Abrams, a progressive candidate who ran for governor in Georgia and had the election stolen from her because she is black, also appeared to endorse the statements in an interview with MSNBC’s Rev. Al Sharpton.
> 
> View attachment 521978​
> "You know I ain’t like dat b!tch Hill, but she be right doe,” Abrams said of Clinton. “You get in da politic, and dem Jews all be all up on you sh!t, be all like, tell a b!tch what she posed to be say, blah blah blah. Muffugguhs be like roaches, crawlin up on a b!tch. You know, a n!gga turn on the light at night, finds a buncha Jews scurryin around the room.”
> 
> “Ms. Abrams, I’m not sure you want to say that, especially since you still have a chance to win the election in Georgia *if the people working in the polling stations, who might be of a certain ethnicity, find more votes,”* Sharpton replied.
> 
> “Yeah, you right, I ain’t even be try to said nothing you know, anti-semantic, but n!gga you know those Jews be all up everywhere, get up in you face,” Abrams said.
> 
> “Well, you’re not supposed to say that on TV, that’s one thing I know. And I’m thinking you’d best just go ahead and apologize now to get it out of the way, girl, or you’re gonna be in a whole messa trouble,” Jackson said.
> 
> *Abrams then apologized to Jews, and asked them to keep finding more hidden votes in Georgia.*
> 
> However, a spokesman for the SPLC said that the apology did not seem sincere, and that they are looking into lawsuits they can file against her as revenge for the promotion of neo-Nazism. *The SPLC also issued a statement publicly asking the Jewish community of Georgia to “stop finding more votes for a woman who promotes neo-Nazism.”*
> 
> View attachment 521979​
> "The last thing that Georgia needs is a governor who is a follower of the ideals of Adolf Hitler,” the SPLC’s Heidi Beirich told CNN.
> 
> Following The Atlantic forum event, Twitter, Facebook, PayPal and GoDaddy all banned Hillary Clinton from using their services. Although all companies made it clear that their decisions to ban her were not connected, and they did not communicate with each other beforehand, they each issued nearly identical statements stating that it is morally wrong to suggest that Jews are powerful and influential.
> 
> Clinton’s American bank accounts were all closed. The various banks issued a joint statement that claiming Jews are powerful and influential “leads to genocide.”
> 
> Antifa showed up at the Clintons’ Chappaqua, New York home and attempted to kick in the door while shouting “hey hey, ho ho, no Nazis, no KKK, no fascist USA.” They burned an American flag in the yard and spraypainted the driveway. Bill Clinton was home alone and got scared, but police told him that the Antifa could not be arrested because they did nothing wrong.
> 
> World leaders came out to denounce Clinton’s newfound adherence to neo-Nazism and white supremacy as well. French President Emmanuel Macron broke down into tears, and said that he would be flying to Auschwitz “on the next flight out” to “pray for the souls lost to the ideology espoused by Hillary Clinton.”
> 
> Canada’s Premier Justin Trudeau held a press conference with the country’s chief rabbi, Ari Shmelheim, and was also in tears as he shouted “no more!” Trudeau also said that he would be giving “free counseling” to all Jews and anyone else who felt threatened by Hillary Clinton’s virulent hatred.
> 
> “It is simply astonishing to know that in 2018, just across our southern border, there are people who actually believe that Jews are powerful and influential,” Trudeau said. “This is what Adolf Hitler falsely believed, and it is what led him to murder 6 million Jews.”
> 
> In Germany, *Chancellor Angela Merkel remained stone-faced as she announced that she has issued a warrant for Clinton’s arrest.*
> 
> Justice Department head Rod Rosenstein *announced that the FBI would be reopening their investigation into Hillary Clinton’s email server, and also opening two different investigations into the Clinton Foundation, an investigation into collusion with Russia, and another investigation into Benghazi. After announcing the series of investigations,* *Rosenstein added that it was completely unrelated to her statements claiming that Jews are powerful and influential, and that the timing was “pure coincidence.”*
> 
> View attachment 521980​
> Morning Joe Scarborough, host of MSNBC’s Morning Joe, responded to the announcement live on air by saying “that really is a strange coincidence.”
> 
> His co-host, Mika Scarborough, said, “Joe, what do you mean by that?”
> 
> View attachment 521981​
> *He replied that he “just thinks” it is a strange coincidence that the Justice Department would announce five separate investigations into Hillary Clinton an hour and a half after she made worldwide news for having embraced neo-Nazism and white supremacy.* “It was a big day for Hillary Clinton, is all I’m saying, Mika. I’m not… look, I’m not saying anything, okay. Hillary Clinton is an evil person.”
> 
> Within minutes after the show went off air, MSNBC issued a statement saying that they had canceled Scarborough’s show, and his employment at the network has been “totally terminated.”
> 
> Four minutes later, the FBI announced that they are reopening an investigation into the 2001 death of a female intern in Joe Scarborough’s office, with a spokesperson saying “we can’t say for sure yet, but it looks like he probably killed her.”
> 
> Shortly thereafter, the SPLC announced that they are suing Scarborough for organizing a campaign of anti-Semitic harassment against Rod Rosenstein.
> 
> View attachment 521982​
> Source
> 
> 
> 
> @Nilgiri @Psychic @LeGenD @Metanoia @Hamartia Antidote



Gotta hand it to the daily stormer, at least they are pretty funny lol.

_ Shmuley Ben Shekelheim <-----_

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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> Gotta hand it to the daily stormer, at least they are pretty funny lol.
> 
> _ Shmuley Ben Shekelheim <-----_


Honestly, the best website for political humor and satire

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## Yankee-stani

Desert Fox said:


> Honestly, the best website for political humor and satire



I use to read it but its only funny the whole weev and Charlottesville shit made their rep bad and Weev the admin is a J...w

The best Alt Right Site is now Occidental Dissent

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/

I am glad there is another Ameri-**** like @Desert Fox who is blind Obama lover and in general woke on Juden control over America the old gen of my uncles and my father who immigrated here are more woke on American politics than the 2nd gen now



Desert Fox said:


> Some of the names on Occidental dissent wrote for the daily stormer.
> 
> Regarding weev, yeah I've heard that, but who really knows?



There was spilt in the Alt Right last year I am no way an Alt Right supporter but a observer the ones with Andrew Anglin Daily Stormer spilt up when he went crazy or something to be fair the Alt Right has become a shitfest of young males who are horny sadly and Trump basically showing his true colors

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## Desert Fox

OsmanAli98 said:


> There was spilt in the Alt Right last year I am no way an Alt Right supporter but a observer the ones with Andrew Anglin Daily Stormer spilt up when he went crazy or something to be fair the Alt Right has become a shitfest of young males who are horny sadly and Trump basically showing his true colors


Yeah, it has, but the conditions that created the Alt-Right and other similar movements are not abating but rather intensifying so trust me even though there is a fracture the movement is not going anywhere but rather still growing mainly because of Democrats and other leftist lunatics hell-bent on implementing their crazy utopian worldview at all costs.

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## Yankee-stani

Desert Fox said:


> Yeah, it has, but the conditions that created the Alt-Right and other similar movements are not abating but rather intensifying so trust me even though there is a fracture the movement is not going anywhere but rather still growing mainly because of Democrats and other leftist lunatics hell-bent on implementing their crazy utopian worldview at all costs.



My concern is that American Muslims are allying with the Anti Islamic Left who wants us to atomized LGBTQ crap and eventually de Islamized the next gen again a plan by Juden Alt Right has a point the current ((Multicultural)) America pushed after WW2 has been a failure cmon the two parties only work for corporate and Israel and would sell out,

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## Desert Fox

OsmanAli98 said:


> My concern is that American Muslims are allying with the Anti Islamic Left who wants us to atomized LGBTQ crap and eventually de Islamized the next gen again a plan by Juden Alt Right has a point the current ((Multicultural)) America pushed after WW2 has been a failure cmon the two parties only work for corporate and Israel and would sell out,


Yeah well every people have their fair share of sheeple and we Muslims are not exempt from that. The best thing to do is to continue on self improvement like get a good job, be a good role model for the youngsters and always vote against Liberals/leftists. And whatever you do, avoid any form of violence and those who advocate violence because it will always play into the hands of the lefty lunatics. Spiritual change through good work and role modeling is the most effective way to counter negative influences. We Muslims just like any other community are lacking in good role models.

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## Yankee-stani

Desert Fox said:


> Yeah well every people have their fair share of sheeple and we Muslims are not exempt from that. The best thing to do is to continue on self improvement like get a good job, be a good role model for the youngsters and always vote against Liberals/leftists. And whatever you do, avoid any form of violence and those who advocate violence because it will always play into the hands of the lefty lunatics. Spiritual change through good work and role modeling is the most effective way to counter negative influences. We Muslims just like any other community are lacking in good role models.



((Multiculturalism)) in the west is leading to the cucking of the Muslims and the wahhabi cancer to spread I mean sadly when I look at Iranians and Pakistanis in the west none of us know in the Persian or Urdu not just them but most Muslim 2nd Gen as well then when they reach late teens and early 20s they question their identity this is why ((Multiculturalism)) is just destoying the host country and just using people from 2nd world and 3rd world for skills and cheap labor

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## Solomon2

*More questions than answers in too many Trump stories*
*BY SHARYL ATTKISSON, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR — 11/25/18 08:00 AM EST 835*
*THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY CONTRIBUTORS ARE THEIR OWN AND NOT THE VIEW OF THE HILL*

Something strange has happened to the news. We’ve largely suspended our normal ethical practices and standards when it comes to covering President Trump.

Maybe it doesn’t seem strange to the usual crowd: the Washington and New York-centric media, political figures, insiders and pundits. They act like it’s not happening. Or maybe they don’t even notice. But to a lot of fair-minded, ordinary Americans, it’s just odd.

A good example is the recent rash of stories about President Trump reportedly wanting the Justice Department to investigate two of his political nemeses: former presidential candidate Hillary Clinton and former FBI Director James Comey.

I’m not as smart as a lot of people, but my initial reaction was a big “So what?” First, it’s unsurprising that Trump would have wanted his Justice Department to investigate two officials widely accused of wrongdoing. Second, even Trump’s critics acknowledge his right to ask for such investigations. Third, the investigations were never ordered.

Yet the story, reported by The New York Times — and therefore guaranteed to be copied by news outlets internationally — portrayed the big “news” as if it were proof of politically motivated interference of the worst kind.

I’m not arguing that the allegations, if deemed credible, aren’t worthy of examination. And Trump’s critics have every right to have their views heard on the national news. But the fairness that once was routinely expected in news stories is notably absent.

Here are four ways the story falls short of upholding routine journalistic standards.


The story relies on anonymous sources. Risky to begin with, creating international headlines on the basis of nameless, faceless people becomes even more perilous considering how many leaked stories by anonymous sources have proven factually incorrect.
The story lacks appropriate context. When the only way to tell a story is through anonymous sources, their self-interests and identities must be described with as much specificity as possible so viewers can weight the allegations. Do the sources oppose Trump? Do they work in the White House? Were they fired? Disgruntled? Could they be trying to cover up their own wrongdoing? How are they in position to know what they claim to know? None of this information was provided. Likewise, the story failed to include the context that the main subject, former White House counsel Donald McGahn, had repeatedly clashed with Trump and was ultimately forced out of his job. 
There are numerous instances of missing attribution. If a reporter didn’t personally witness an event, he generally should not present allegations or facts as if true and verified; they should be attributed to their source. Here’s one paragraph full of examples of missing attribution:
“The lawyer, Donald F. McGahn II, rebuffed the president, saying that he had no authority to order a prosecution. Mr. McGahn said that while he could request an investigation, that too could prompt accusations of abuse of power. To underscore his point, Mr. McGahn had White House lawyers write a memo for Mr. Trump warning that if he asked law enforcement to investigate his rivals, he could face a range of consequences, including possible impeachment.”​
4. In a news piece, the reporters’ opinions shouldn’t be reported as facts. But in this story, after accepting one-sided, leaked information as true, the writers add their own opinions. Here’s one example:

“The encounter was one of the most blatant examples yet of how Mr. Trump views the typically independent Justice Department as a tool to be wielded against his political enemies.”​
*Unasked and unanswered questions*

It seems to me, smart and fair reporting wouldn’t only report the allegations against Trump, but also would examine competing questions.

Are all the figures who have warded off Trump from being involved in his own Justice Department really trying to keep him away so that he doesn’t uncover facts related to allegedly politically motivated acts, surveillance and wrongdoing by some officials over the years? 

Is the strategy to accuse Trump of “obstruction” every time he interacts with his Justice Department part of the “insurance policy” discussed by multiple Trump opponents — including two FBI officials and a Comey associate?

Does the press risk being used as a propaganda tool by reporting a series of what appear to be orchestrated, anonymous leaks of unverified, derogatory information against Trump?

In the end, journalistic standards aren’t designed for us to follow only when we write stories about people we like. They’re to hold us to a level of professionalism when we’re reporting on political figures we don’t like — even ones we may hate or who attack us personally. If we can’t maintain our standards under the most challenging circumstances, then we shouldn’t pretend to have them to begin with.

_Sharyl Attkisson (@SharylAttkisson) is an Emmy Award-winning investigative journalist, author of The New York Times best-sellers “The Smear” and “Stonewalled,” and host of Sinclair’s Sunday TV program, “Full Measure.”_

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## Nilgiri

Solomon2 said:


> *More questions than answers in too many Trump stories*
> *BY SHARYL ATTKISSON, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR — 11/25/18 08:00 AM EST 835*
> *THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY CONTRIBUTORS ARE THEIR OWN AND NOT THE VIEW OF THE HILL*
> 
> Something strange has happened to the news. We’ve largely suspended our normal ethical practices and standards when it comes to covering President Trump.
> 
> Maybe it doesn’t seem strange to the usual crowd: the Washington and New York-centric media, political figures, insiders and pundits. They act like it’s not happening. Or maybe they don’t even notice. But to a lot of fair-minded, ordinary Americans, it’s just odd.
> 
> A good example is the recent rash of stories about President Trump reportedly wanting the Justice Department to investigate two of his political nemeses: former presidential candidate Hillary Clinton and former FBI Director James Comey.
> 
> I’m not as smart as a lot of people, but my initial reaction was a big “So what?” First, it’s unsurprising that Trump would have wanted his Justice Department to investigate two officials widely accused of wrongdoing. Second, even Trump’s critics acknowledge his right to ask for such investigations. Third, the investigations were never ordered.
> 
> Yet the story, reported by The New York Times — and therefore guaranteed to be copied by news outlets internationally — portrayed the big “news” as if it were proof of politically motivated interference of the worst kind.
> 
> I’m not arguing that the allegations, if deemed credible, aren’t worthy of examination. And Trump’s critics have every right to have their views heard on the national news. But the fairness that once was routinely expected in news stories is notably absent.
> 
> Here are four ways the story falls short of upholding routine journalistic standards.
> 
> 
> The story relies on anonymous sources. Risky to begin with, creating international headlines on the basis of nameless, faceless people becomes even more perilous considering how many leaked stories by anonymous sources have proven factually incorrect.
> The story lacks appropriate context. When the only way to tell a story is through anonymous sources, their self-interests and identities must be described with as much specificity as possible so viewers can weight the allegations. Do the sources oppose Trump? Do they work in the White House? Were they fired? Disgruntled? Could they be trying to cover up their own wrongdoing? How are they in position to know what they claim to know? None of this information was provided. Likewise, the story failed to include the context that the main subject, former White House counsel Donald McGahn, had repeatedly clashed with Trump and was ultimately forced out of his job.
> There are numerous instances of missing attribution. If a reporter didn’t personally witness an event, he generally should not present allegations or facts as if true and verified; they should be attributed to their source. Here’s one paragraph full of examples of missing attribution:
> “The lawyer, Donald F. McGahn II, rebuffed the president, saying that he had no authority to order a prosecution. Mr. McGahn said that while he could request an investigation, that too could prompt accusations of abuse of power. To underscore his point, Mr. McGahn had White House lawyers write a memo for Mr. Trump warning that if he asked law enforcement to investigate his rivals, he could face a range of consequences, including possible impeachment.”​
> 4. In a news piece, the reporters’ opinions shouldn’t be reported as facts. But in this story, after accepting one-sided, leaked information as true, the writers add their own opinions. Here’s one example:
> 
> “The encounter was one of the most blatant examples yet of how Mr. Trump views the typically independent Justice Department as a tool to be wielded against his political enemies.”​
> *Unasked and unanswered questions*
> 
> It seems to me, smart and fair reporting wouldn’t only report the allegations against Trump, but also would examine competing questions.
> 
> Are all the figures who have warded off Trump from being involved in his own Justice Department really trying to keep him away so that he doesn’t uncover facts related to allegedly politically motivated acts, surveillance and wrongdoing by some officials over the years?
> 
> Is the strategy to accuse Trump of “obstruction” every time he interacts with his Justice Department part of the “insurance policy” discussed by multiple Trump opponents — including two FBI officials and a Comey associate?
> 
> Does the press risk being used as a propaganda tool by reporting a series of what appear to be orchestrated, anonymous leaks of unverified, derogatory information against Trump?
> 
> In the end, journalistic standards aren’t designed for us to follow only when we write stories about people we like. They’re to hold us to a level of professionalism when we’re reporting on political figures we don’t like — even ones we may hate or who attack us personally. If we can’t maintain our standards under the most challenging circumstances, then we shouldn’t pretend to have them to begin with.
> 
> _Sharyl Attkisson (@SharylAttkisson) is an Emmy Award-winning investigative journalist, author of The New York Times best-sellers “The Smear” and “Stonewalled,” and host of Sinclair’s Sunday TV program, “Full Measure.”_



Only Fox News deigned to even broach this topic when it surfaced.

Its crazy how far dbl standards have goose step marched in the media world in recent years.


----------



## RabzonKhan

Since Democrat congressman-elect Harley Rouda (I donated almost 3 times to his campaign and I’m glad I did) won election against Republican Rohrabacher (Putin’s favorite congressman) I have received two emails from him, I think are worth sharing:

Kaira (She is his wife) and I have spent last few days in Washington, D.C. for new member orientation.

What an energizing experience. Our 116th Congress boasts an unprecedented number of women, diverse perspectives, and experience. 

At home, our campaign has culminated in a historic victory. We couldn't have done any of this without you. You had my back, and I am honored and eager to represent our community.

Your grassroots support has fueled my campaign from the beginning. *By the time we got to Election Day, we had over 5,000 volunteers.





*
After 30 years, Rohrabacher is out. But the real work is only just beginning.

We are overdue for action on climate change, a commitment to clean energy, and plans to improve infrastructure.

We need forward-thinking economic policies. That means a thriving, innovative, and balanced economy that is focused on creating the jobs of tomorrow. For California to continue being a global economic leader, we must provide high-quality education to our kids.

We need to work towards health care as a right, not a privilege.

We need common sense gun reform.

And as the list keeps going — we need _you._ It's time to come together for a better Orange County.

I'm in, are you?

_Harley_
*
Second email:

This is what democracy looks like
*

I want to share a few updates from Week 2 of New Member Orientation.

I started the week catching up with Greta Brawner of CSPAN to discuss my background, climate change, infrastructure, and homelessness.





*Yesterday, I attended a briefing on the Democracy Reform Agenda to discuss how we can get the corrupting influence of money out of our elections. *I look forward to working with Congressman Sarbanes and other leaders on this important work.

This morning, we attended a "bi-partisan breakfast." That trend continued this afternoon.

I had the opportunity to sit down with Congressman Rohrabacher in his Washington, D.C. office. I thanked him for his 30 years of service and listened as he shared some of the lessons he's learned over his career.

*



*
Congressman Rohrabacher (Left) and congressman-elect Harley Rouda

I am grateful that the Congressman and his staff have offered to be helpful in this transition.

This is how Democracy is supposed to work. *We can and will have a difference of ideas. But we can all come together to work for the common good.*

More soon,

_Harley _

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## RabzonKhan

Interesting developments, Trump’s former lawyer, Michael Cohen pleads guilty, says he lied about Trump’s knowledge of Moscow project. Trump’s misconduct piling up.

In addition to lurid stories, the Steele dossier makes claims about Michael Cohen being a key figure in secret connections with the Kremlin. Stephanie Ruhle breaks down how the dossier ties into the allegations of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.


----------



## RabzonKhan

R.I.P

*George H.W. Bush, 41st president of the United States, dies at 94*





Karen Tumulty 2 hrs ago 






*George H.W. Bush, the 41st president of the United States and the father of the 43rd, was a steadfast force on the international stage for decades, from his stint as an envoy to Beijing to his eight years as vice president and his one term as commander in chief from 1989 to 1993.*

The last veteran of World War II to serve as president, he was a consummate public servant and a statesman who helped guide the nation and the world out of a four-decade Cold War that had carried the threat of nuclear annihilation.

His death, at 94 on Nov. 30, also marked the passing of an era.

*Although Mr. Bush served as president three decades ago, his values and ethic seem centuries removed from today’s acrid political culture. His currency of personal connection was the handwritten letter — not the social media blast.*

He had a competitive nature and considerable ambition that were not easy to discern under the sheen of his New England politesse and his earnest generosity. He was capable of running hard-edge political campaigns, and took the nation to war. But his principal achievements were produced at negotiating tables.

*“When the word moderation becomes a dirty word, we have some soul searching to do,” he wrote a friend in 1964, after losing his first bid for elective office.*

*Despite his grace, Mr. Bush was an easy subject for caricature. He was an honors graduate of Yale University who was often at a loss for words in public, especially when it came to talking about himself. Though he was tested in combat when he was barely out of adolescence, he was branded “a wimp” by those who doubted whether he had essential convictions.*

This paradox in the public image of Mr. Bush dogged him, as did domestic events. His lack of sure-footedness in the face of a faltering economy produced a nosedive in the soaring popularity he enjoyed after the triumph of the Persian Gulf War. In 1992, he lost his bid for a second term as president.

“It’s a mixed achievement,” said presidential historian Robert Dallek. “Circumstances and his ability to manage them did not stand up to what the electorate wanted.”

*His death was announced in a tweet by Jim McGrath, his spokesman. The cause of his death was not immediately available. In 2012, he announced that he had vascular Parkinsonism, a condition that limited his mobility. His wife of 73 years, Barbara Bush, died on April 17.*

*The afternoon before his wife’s service, the frail, wheelchair-bound former president summoned the strength to sit for 20 minutes before her flower-laden coffin and accept condolences from some of the 6,000 people who lined up to pay their respects at St. Martin’s Episcopal Church in Houston.*

Mr. Bush came to the Oval Office under the towering, sharply defined shadow of Ronald Reagan, a onetime rival for whom he had served as vice president.

*No president before had arrived with his breadth of experience: decorated Navy pilot, successful oil executive, congressman, United Nations delegate, Republican Party chairman, envoy to Beijing, director of Central Intelligence.*

*Over the course of a single term that began on Jan. 20, 1989, Mr. Bush found himself at the helm of the world’s only remaining superpower. The Berlin Wall fell; the Soviet Union ceased to exist; the communist bloc in Eastern Europe broke up; the Cold War ended.*

His firm, restrained diplomatic sense helped assure the harmony and peace with which these world-shaking events played out, one after the other.

In 1990, Mr. Bush went so far as to proclaim a “new world order” that would be “free from the threat of terror, stronger in the pursuit of justice and more secure in the quest for peace — a world in which nations recognize the shared responsibility for freedom and justice. A world where the strong respect the rights of the weak.”

Mr. Bush’s presidency was not all plowshares. He ordered an attack on Panama in 1989 to overthrow strongman Manuel Antonio Noriega. After Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait in the summer of 1990, Mr. Bush put together a 30-nation coalition — backed by a U.N. mandate and including the Soviet Union and several Arab countries — that routed the Iraqi forces with unexpected ease in a ground war that lasted only 100 hours.

*However, Mr. Bush decided to leave Hussein in power, setting up the worst and most fateful decision of his son’s presidency a dozen years later.*

*In the wake of that 1991 victory, Mr. Bush’s approval at home approached 90 percent. It seemed the country had finally achieved the catharsis it needed after Vietnam. A year-and-a-half later, only 29 percent of those polled gave Mr. Bush a favorable rating, and just 16 percent thought the country was headed in the right direction.*

The conservative wing of his party would not forgive him for breaking an ill-advised and cocky pledge: “Read my lips: No new taxes.” What cost him among voters at large, however, was his inability to express a connection to and engagement with the struggles of ordinary Americans or a strategy for turning the economy around.

That he was perceived as lacking in grit was another irony in the life of Mr. Bush. His was a character that had been forged by trial. He was an exemplary story of a generation whose youth was cut short by the Great Depression and World War II.

*The early years*

George Herbert Walker Bush was born in Milton, Mass., on June 12, 1924. He grew up in tony Greenwich, Conn., the second of five children of Prescott Bush and the former Dorothy Walker.

His father was an Ohio native and business executive who became a Wall Street banker and a senator from Connecticut, setting a course for the next two generations of Bush men to follow. His mother, a Maine native, was the daughter of a wealthy investment banker.

Mr. Bush’s early years were hard ones for the country, although his family — which had a cook, a maid and a chauffeur — felt none of it. He attended the private Phillips Academy in Andover, Mass. The close-knit Bushes spent summers at the family house at Walker’s Point, Maine, and Christmases at his grandfather’s shooting lodge in South Carolina.

*At a prep school party during the 1941 Christmas season, he spotted a girl in a red-and-green dress. He asked another boy to introduce him to Barbara Pierce, whose father was head of the McCall’s publishing empire.

“I thought he was the most beautiful creature I had ever laid eyes on. I couldn’t even breathe when he was in the room,” Barbara Bush would later say, adding, “I married the first man I ever kissed.”*

Prescott Bush wanted his son to go right to Yale upon graduation from Andover. But Mr. Bush said his father had also insisted that privilege carried a responsibility to “put something back in, do something, help others.”

*His own time to serve came on his 18th birthday, when he enlisted in the Navy; within a year, he received his wings and became one of the youngest pilots in the service.

Sent to the Pacific, he flew torpedo bombers off the aircraft carrier San Jacinto. On Sept. 2, 1944, his plane was hit by Japanese ground fire during a bombing run on Chichi Jima in the Bonin Islands in the western Pacific. He pressed his attack even though his plane was aflame.

Mr. Bush bailed out over the ocean and was rescued by a submarine. His two crewmen were killed. The future president was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross.*

After the war, he went to Yale, where he was a member of Skull and Bones, the university’s storied secret society, and captain of the baseball team. Barbara took their baby son, George W., to the games. *Read more*

=============================================


His handwritten letter to Bill Clinton who had defeated him in the election shows his character.


*'Your success now is our country’s success. I am rooting hard for you': Read the heartfelt letter George H.W. Bush left for Bill Clinton after the 1992 election 
*
Sarah Gray 1 hr ago 






After losing the 1992 presidential election, former President H.W. Bush -  following in a long-standing tradition - left a heartfelt note to his successor, and the man who defeated him for the presidency, then-President Bill Clinton.

"Your success now is our country's success," Bush wrote in closing. "I am rooting hard for you."

That letter was being shared on social media Friday night, as people remembered the 41st president,  who died at age 94 on November 30.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/904390445278617600
Read the full letter is below:

_Jan. 20, 1993 _

_Dear Bill, _

_When I walked into this office just now I felt the same sense of wonder and respect that I felt four years ago. I know you will feel that, too. _

_I wish you great happiness here. I never felt the loneliness some Presidents have described. _

_There will be very tough times, made even more difficult by criticism you may not think is fair. I'm not a very good one to give advice; but just don't let the critics discourage you or push you off course. _

_You will be our President when you read this note. I wish you well. I wish your family well. _

_Your success now is our country's success. I am rooting hard for you. _

_Good Luck - George _







==================================================


*Touching cartoon reunites George H.W. Bush with wife Barbara and daughter Robin
*
Kirk A. Bado, USA TODAY

On Friday, George H.W. Bush took his final flight, reuniting with his wife of 73 years, Barbara, and 3-year-old daughter, Robin.

Clarion Ledger cartoonist Marshall Ramsey shows Bush flying his TBM Avenger, the same plane he flew in the Navy during World War II, up into the clouds to join his wife who passed away in April and their young daughter who died from leukemia at age 3 in 1953.

Ramsey's latest cartoon is a follow-up to his viral cartoon depicting Barbara reuniting with her daughter after decades apart. 






"I received a very kind note from President George H.W. Bush's Chief of Staff for the Barbara Bush cartoon. President Bush was unable to write due to his Parkinson's, but it was his sentiments. And it was very humble and gracious," Ramsey said.

When thinking about how to commemorate George H.W. Bush, Ramsey thought of a striking scene from Barbara's memorial service.






"One moment from Barbara Bush's passing that struck me was that he greeted every mourner (almost 6000) who came to her casket. He sat his wheelchair and showed remarkable strength. It was a powerful and frail moment," Ramsey said.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> R.I.P
> 
> *George H.W. Bush, 41st president of the United States, dies at 94*
> 
> View attachment 523939
> 
> Karen Tumulty 2 hrs ago
> 
> View attachment 523941
> 
> 
> *George H.W. Bush, the 41st president of the United States and the father of the 43rd, was a steadfast force on the international stage for decades, from his stint as an envoy to Beijing to his eight years as vice president and his one term as commander in chief from 1989 to 1993.*
> 
> The last veteran of World War II to serve as president, he was a consummate public servant and a statesman who helped guide the nation and the world out of a four-decade Cold War that had carried the threat of nuclear annihilation.
> 
> His death, at 94 on Nov. 30, also marked the passing of an era.
> 
> *Although Mr. Bush served as president three decades ago, his values and ethic seem centuries removed from today’s acrid political culture. His currency of personal connection was the handwritten letter — not the social media blast.*
> 
> He had a competitive nature and considerable ambition that were not easy to discern under the sheen of his New England politesse and his earnest generosity. He was capable of running hard-edge political campaigns, and took the nation to war. But his principal achievements were produced at negotiating tables.
> 
> *“When the word moderation becomes a dirty word, we have some soul searching to do,” he wrote a friend in 1964, after losing his first bid for elective office.*
> 
> *Despite his grace, Mr. Bush was an easy subject for caricature. He was an honors graduate of Yale University who was often at a loss for words in public, especially when it came to talking about himself. Though he was tested in combat when he was barely out of adolescence, he was branded “a wimp” by those who doubted whether he had essential convictions.*
> 
> This paradox in the public image of Mr. Bush dogged him, as did domestic events. His lack of sure-footedness in the face of a faltering economy produced a nosedive in the soaring popularity he enjoyed after the triumph of the Persian Gulf War. In 1992, he lost his bid for a second term as president.
> 
> “It’s a mixed achievement,” said presidential historian Robert Dallek. “Circumstances and his ability to manage them did not stand up to what the electorate wanted.”
> 
> *His death was announced in a tweet by Jim McGrath, his spokesman. The cause of his death was not immediately available. In 2012, he announced that he had vascular Parkinsonism, a condition that limited his mobility. His wife of 73 years, Barbara Bush, died on April 17.*
> 
> *The afternoon before his wife’s service, the frail, wheelchair-bound former president summoned the strength to sit for 20 minutes before her flower-laden coffin and accept condolences from some of the 6,000 people who lined up to pay their respects at St. Martin’s Episcopal Church in Houston.*
> 
> Mr. Bush came to the Oval Office under the towering, sharply defined shadow of Ronald Reagan, a onetime rival for whom he had served as vice president.
> 
> *No president before had arrived with his breadth of experience: decorated Navy pilot, successful oil executive, congressman, United Nations delegate, Republican Party chairman, envoy to Beijing, director of Central Intelligence.*
> 
> *Over the course of a single term that began on Jan. 20, 1989, Mr. Bush found himself at the helm of the world’s only remaining superpower. The Berlin Wall fell; the Soviet Union ceased to exist; the communist bloc in Eastern Europe broke up; the Cold War ended.*
> 
> His firm, restrained diplomatic sense helped assure the harmony and peace with which these world-shaking events played out, one after the other.
> 
> In 1990, Mr. Bush went so far as to proclaim a “new world order” that would be “free from the threat of terror, stronger in the pursuit of justice and more secure in the quest for peace — a world in which nations recognize the shared responsibility for freedom and justice. A world where the strong respect the rights of the weak.”
> 
> Mr. Bush’s presidency was not all plowshares. He ordered an attack on Panama in 1989 to overthrow strongman Manuel Antonio Noriega. After Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait in the summer of 1990, Mr. Bush put together a 30-nation coalition — backed by a U.N. mandate and including the Soviet Union and several Arab countries — that routed the Iraqi forces with unexpected ease in a ground war that lasted only 100 hours.
> 
> *However, Mr. Bush decided to leave Hussein in power, setting up the worst and most fateful decision of his son’s presidency a dozen years later.*
> 
> *In the wake of that 1991 victory, Mr. Bush’s approval at home approached 90 percent. It seemed the country had finally achieved the catharsis it needed after Vietnam. A year-and-a-half later, only 29 percent of those polled gave Mr. Bush a favorable rating, and just 16 percent thought the country was headed in the right direction.*
> 
> The conservative wing of his party would not forgive him for breaking an ill-advised and cocky pledge: “Read my lips: No new taxes.” What cost him among voters at large, however, was his inability to express a connection to and engagement with the struggles of ordinary Americans or a strategy for turning the economy around.
> 
> That he was perceived as lacking in grit was another irony in the life of Mr. Bush. His was a character that had been forged by trial. He was an exemplary story of a generation whose youth was cut short by the Great Depression and World War II.
> 
> *The early years*
> 
> George Herbert Walker Bush was born in Milton, Mass., on June 12, 1924. He grew up in tony Greenwich, Conn., the second of five children of Prescott Bush and the former Dorothy Walker.
> 
> His father was an Ohio native and business executive who became a Wall Street banker and a senator from Connecticut, setting a course for the next two generations of Bush men to follow. His mother, a Maine native, was the daughter of a wealthy investment banker.
> 
> Mr. Bush’s early years were hard ones for the country, although his family — which had a cook, a maid and a chauffeur — felt none of it. He attended the private Phillips Academy in Andover, Mass. The close-knit Bushes spent summers at the family house at Walker’s Point, Maine, and Christmases at his grandfather’s shooting lodge in South Carolina.
> 
> *At a prep school party during the 1941 Christmas season, he spotted a girl in a red-and-green dress. He asked another boy to introduce him to Barbara Pierce, whose father was head of the McCall’s publishing empire.
> 
> “I thought he was the most beautiful creature I had ever laid eyes on. I couldn’t even breathe when he was in the room,” Barbara Bush would later say, adding, “I married the first man I ever kissed.”*
> 
> Prescott Bush wanted his son to go right to Yale upon graduation from Andover. But Mr. Bush said his father had also insisted that privilege carried a responsibility to “put something back in, do something, help others.”
> 
> *His own time to serve came on his 18th birthday, when he enlisted in the Navy; within a year, he received his wings and became one of the youngest pilots in the service.
> 
> Sent to the Pacific, he flew torpedo bombers off the aircraft carrier San Jacinto. On Sept. 2, 1944, his plane was hit by Japanese ground fire during a bombing run on Chichi Jima in the Bonin Islands in the western Pacific. He pressed his attack even though his plane was aflame.
> 
> Mr. Bush bailed out over the ocean and was rescued by a submarine. His two crewmen were killed. The future president was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross.*
> 
> After the war, he went to Yale, where he was a member of Skull and Bones, the university’s storied secret society, and captain of the baseball team. Barbara took their baby son, George W., to the games. *Read more*
> 
> =============================================
> 
> 
> His handwritten letter to Bill Clinton who had defeated him in the election shows his character.
> 
> 
> *'Your success now is our country’s success. I am rooting hard for you': Read the heartfelt letter George H.W. Bush left for Bill Clinton after the 1992 election
> *
> Sarah Gray 1 hr ago
> 
> View attachment 523956
> 
> 
> After losing the 1992 presidential election, former President H.W. Bush -  following in a long-standing tradition - left a heartfelt note to his successor, and the man who defeated him for the presidency, then-President Bill Clinton.
> 
> "Your success now is our country's success," Bush wrote in closing. "I am rooting hard for you."
> 
> That letter was being shared on social media Friday night, as people remembered the 41st president,  who died at age 94 on November 30.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/904390445278617600
> Read the full letter is below:
> 
> _Jan. 20, 1993 _
> 
> _Dear Bill, _
> 
> _When I walked into this office just now I felt the same sense of wonder and respect that I felt four years ago. I know you will feel that, too. _
> 
> _I wish you great happiness here. I never felt the loneliness some Presidents have described. _
> 
> _There will be very tough times, made even more difficult by criticism you may not think is fair. I'm not a very good one to give advice; but just don't let the critics discourage you or push you off course. _
> 
> _You will be our President when you read this note. I wish you well. I wish your family well. _
> 
> _Your success now is our country's success. I am rooting hard for you. _
> 
> _Good Luck - George _
> 
> 
> View attachment 523959
> 
> 
> ==================================================
> 
> 
> *Touching cartoon reunites George H.W. Bush with wife Barbara and daughter Robin
> *
> Kirk A. Bado, USA TODAY
> 
> On Friday, George H.W. Bush took his final flight, reuniting with his wife of 73 years, Barbara, and 3-year-old daughter, Robin.
> 
> Clarion Ledger cartoonist Marshall Ramsey shows Bush flying his TBM Avenger, the same plane he flew in the Navy during World War II, up into the clouds to join his wife who passed away in April and their young daughter who died from leukemia at age 3 in 1953.
> 
> Ramsey's latest cartoon is a follow-up to his viral cartoon depicting Barbara reuniting with her daughter after decades apart.
> 
> View attachment 523962
> 
> 
> "I received a very kind note from President George H.W. Bush's Chief of Staff for the Barbara Bush cartoon. President Bush was unable to write due to his Parkinson's, but it was his sentiments. And it was very humble and gracious," Ramsey said.
> 
> When thinking about how to commemorate George H.W. Bush, Ramsey thought of a striking scene from Barbara's memorial service.
> 
> View attachment 523963
> 
> 
> "One moment from Barbara Bush's passing that struck me was that he greeted every mourner (almost 6000) who came to her casket. He sat his wheelchair and showed remarkable strength. It was a powerful and frail moment," Ramsey said.



First POTUS I remember...will hold special place.

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## Nilgiri

Rest in Peace Bush Sr.

@RabzonKhan @VCheng @Hamartia Antidote an acquaintance just told me now, while in office he normally stuck around DC Thanksgiving and Christmas Days, so his Secret Service and Staff could spend the day with their families.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Rest in Peace Bush Sr.
> 
> @RabzonKhan @VCheng @Hamartia Antidote an acquaintance just told me now, while in office he normally stuck around DC Thanksgiving and Christmas Days, so his Secret Service and Staff could spend the day with their families.



He was the quintessential American President. One of his speech writers is a professor here and there are so many similar good stories about him. His quote about "Faith, Family and Friends" was not just words, but his motto that he lived by.

Rest in Peace, Mr President!

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## RabzonKhan

Nilgiri said:


> Rest in Peace Bush Sr.
> 
> @RabzonKhan @VCheng @Hamartia Antidote an acquaintance just told me now, while in office he normally stuck around DC Thanksgiving and Christmas Days, so his Secret Service and Staff could spend the day with their families.





VCheng said:


> He was the quintessential American President. One of his speech writers is a professor here and there are so many similar good stories about him. His quote about "Faith, Family and Friends" was not just words, but his motto that he lived by.
> 
> Rest in Peace, Mr President!


He was the kind of person, the more you know him, the more you like him. Truly a gentleman!

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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> He was the kind of person, the more you know him, the more you like him. Truly a gentleman!



Of course @Dubious might differ strongly with that assessment. Even react virulently, in fact.

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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> Of course @Dubious might differ strongly with that assessment. Even react virulently, in fact.


Everyone has their own opinions

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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> Everyone has their own opinions



Of course!

I hope you watched part of the ceremonies in the Capitol to have some idea of the respect accorded to him.


----------



## Dubious

VCheng said:


> Of course!
> 
> I hope you watched part of the ceremonies in the Capitol to have some idea of the respect accorded to him.


Naahh...like I said everyone has their own opinions...Some can love him and shock me...and other like me point out what he really was...they wont agree with me and I wont with them so why waste time on a dead man's ceremony [esp 1 who has innocent blood on his hands both directly and indirectly]?


----------



## VCheng

Dubious said:


> Naahh...like I said everyone has their own opinions...Some can love him and shock me...and other like me point out what he really was...they wont agree with me and I wont with them so why waste time on a dead man's ceremony [esp 1 who has innocent blood on his hands both directly and indirectly]?



Well, the ceremonies do give some idea of who he really was.


----------



## Dubious

VCheng said:


> Well, the ceremonies do give some idea of who he really was.


Depends....with so much coverage and so much at stake...many are probably lying through their teeth then again to each their own opinion about the dead! RIP!


----------



## VCheng

Dubious said:


> Depends....with so much coverage and so much at stake...many are probably lying through their teeth then again to each their own opinion about the dead! RIP!



One has to admit, the sober grandeur of the ceremonies is quite effectively impressive.


----------



## Dubious

VCheng said:


> One has to admit, the sober grandeur of the ceremonies is quite effectively impressive.


Depends on how quick you get impressed about dead man's "ceremony"


----------



## VCheng

Dubious said:


> Depends on how quick you get impressed about dead man's "ceremony"



Well, he is just lying in state. The ceremonies are being performed by a nation grateful for his service to the country that he led.


----------



## Dubious

VCheng said:


> Well, he is just lying in state. The ceremonies are being performed by a nation grateful for his service to the country that he led.


Same nation also elected Trump...so we can expect anything from them


----------



## VCheng

Dubious said:


> Same nation also elected Trump...so we can expect anything from them



That nation, which everyone love to hate here, can, and do, elect Presidents for themselves, who are duty-bound to serve the American people, and not anyone else. A useful point to keep in mind, methinks.


----------



## Dubious

VCheng said:


> That nation, which everyone love to hate here, can, and do, elect Presidents for themselves, who are duty-bound to serve the American people, and not anyone else. A useful point to keep in mind, methinks.


Oh, no one doubted their ability to vote...Was just reminding you of the result of that ability


----------



## VCheng

Dubious said:


> Oh, no one doubted their ability to vote...Was just reminding you of the result of that ability



And I merely reiterated that their ability to vote applies only to their own government that serves the Americans, first and foremost, not the rest of the world.


----------



## Dubious

VCheng said:


> And I merely reiterated that their ability to vote applies only to their own government that serves the Americans, first and foremost, not the rest of the world.


I never brought the world in ...after all it is a US politics thread in the American section


----------



## VCheng

Dubious said:


> I never brought the world in ...after all it is a US politics thread in the American section



Oh so declaring him a war criminal due to international issues does not count here!


----------



## Dubious

VCheng said:


> Oh so declaring him a war criminal due to international issues does not count here!


Well what stays in America doesnt count like them voting but what is international does matter to international community and they have every right to declare him a criminal


----------



## VCheng

Dubious said:


> Well what stays in America doesnt count like them voting but what is international does matter to international community and they have every right to declare him a criminal



They have every right to hold an opinion, but such declarations are meaningless without any legal enforcement, that is all I can say here. The same hold true for Americans too.

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## Solomon2

*Trump calls memorial for George H.W. Bush 'a day of celebration for a great man'*

*

*
President Donald Trump salutes alongside first lady Melania Trump in front of the flag-draped casket of former President George H.W. Bush in the Capitol Rotunda in Washington, Monday, Dec. 3, 2018. (AP Photo/Patrick Semansky) 
Dave Boyer - The Washington Times - _Updated: 9:45 a.m. on Wednesday, December 5, 2018_

President Trump isn’t speaking at the memorial service for the late President George H.W. Bush, but he’s tweeting about it.

“This is not a funeral, this is a day of celebration for a great man who has led a long and distinguished life. He will be missed!” Mr. Trump said on Twitter, adding that he is “looking forward to being with the Bush family.”

The president and first lady Melania Trump are attending the service at the Washington National Cathedral for Mr. Bush, who died Friday at age 94. Among those delivering eulogies is his son, former President George W. Bush.


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## Cobra Arbok

HUGE losses for Democrats in Georgia. Republicans won the race for secretary of Sate and Public Service Commission. The thing is Brian Kemp is no longer SOS, so Dems can't blame voter suppression. Looks like the dems' plan to steal the 2020 elections in Georgia has been foiled.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/republ...noff-election-for-georgia-secretary-of-state/
https://www.11alive.com/article/new...n-race/85-5af47542-9e0d-4376-8541-1f11b18f37b
@Nilgiri @Desert Fox @OsmanAli98 @RabzonKhan @nathanbob

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## Nilgiri

Cobra Arbok said:


> HUGE losses for Democrats in Georgia. Republicans won the race for secretary of Sate and Public Service Commission. The thing is Brian Kemp is no longer SOS, so Dems can't blame voter suppression. Looks like the dems' plan to steal the 2020 elections in Georgia has been foiled.
> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/republ...noff-election-for-georgia-secretary-of-state/
> https://www.11alive.com/article/new...n-race/85-5af47542-9e0d-4376-8541-1f11b18f37b
> @Nilgiri @Desert Fox @OsmanAli98 @RabzonKhan @nathanbob



I didn't know about this vote harvesting issue in cali that is new this year either @OsmanAli98 :


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## RabzonKhan

*Senate measure holds Saudi Crown Prince accountable for killing of Jamal Khashoggi*

WASHINGTON – U.S. Senators Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina), Dianne Feinstein (D-California), Marco Rubio (R-Florida), Ed Markey (D-Massachusetts), Todd Young (R-Indiana) and Chris Coons (D-Delaware) today introduced a Senate Resolution that holds Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia Mohammed bin Salman accountable for contributing to the humanitarian crisis in Yemen, the blockade of Qatar, the jailing of political dissidents within Saudi Arabia, the use of force to intimidate rivals, and the abhorrent and unjustified killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

_“I believe it’s vitally important to U.S. national security interests to make a definitive statement about the brutal murder of an American resident – Mr. Khashoggi – who has three American citizen children,” *said Senator Graham.* “This resolution – without equivocation – definitively states that the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia was complicit in the murder of Mr. Khashoggi and has been a wrecking ball to the region jeopardizing our national security interests on multiple fronts. It will be up to Saudi Arabia as to how to deal with this matter. But it is up to the United States to firmly stand for who we are and what we believe.”_

_“The world is entitled to know all the perpetrators of this terrible murder, and they must be held accountable. President Trump’s willingness to ignore the crown prince’s role in the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi is unacceptable,” *said Senator Feinstein.* “Our resolution corrects that by condemning the crown prince’s actions and stating he should be held responsible for this murder, the blockade in Qatar and for human rights abuses in the Saudi Arabia and Yemen.”_

_“Our values as Americans must be central to our foreign policy. Saudi Arabia is an important ally but not an ally at any cost. There is no doubt that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman knew about the murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, condoned it, and at worst was actually involved in directing it,” *Rubio said.* “The U.S. must demand accountability and press for the release of all Saudi political prisoners, including blogger Raif Badawi and women’s rights activists.”_

_“Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is not the reformer he pretends to be. He is a thug and under his rule, the Kingdom has cracked down forcefully on dissent, taken aggressive actions against neighbors like Lebanon and Qatar that have destabilized the region, created an unprecedented humanitarian crisis through its brutal war in Yemen, and decided it may commit extraterritorial killings with impunity,” *said Senator Markey.* “Saudi Arabia is heading in the wrong direction, and the benefits of our relationship with the Kingdom are quickly being outweighed by Mohammad bin Salman’s blatant disregard for fundamental freedoms and international norms. It is time to re-think our relationship with Saudi Arabia, and President Trump must make publicly clear that the United States will not tolerate this behavior by anyone, even our so-called friends. This resolution would ensure that the United States Senate is on the record as condemning the Crown Prince’s murdering of an American journalist and that we will not tolerate the actions of a regime that violates basic human rights and freedoms.”_

_“The failure over the last year and half to utilize all available U.S. leverage with respect to Saudi Arabia’s actions in Yemen has left the Crown Prince with the mistaken impression that the United States will turn a blind eye to his increasingly brazen atrocities. Those who suggest we must sacrifice our principles for security will have neither,” *said Senator Young.*_ 

_“The United States Senate should speak in a clear, bipartisan voice to say that we will not tolerate the kinds of egregious human rights violations we’ve seen from Saudi leadership and, in particular, from Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman,” *said Senator Coons.* “The world has long looked to the United States to lead on human rights, and this is an important moment to show that we will not compromise our core values.”_

*The Graham-Feinstein-Rubio-Markey-Young-Coons Resolution:*


condemns in the strongest possible terms the murder of Jamal Khashoggi;
finds that as Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman was in control of the security forces at the time of Jamal Khashoggi’s murder;
based on evidence and analysis made available to this institution, the Senate has a high level of confidence that Mohammed bin Salman was complicit in the murder of Jamal Khashoggi;
urges the United States Government and the international community to hold all parties, including Mohammed bin Salman, involved in the murder of Jamal Khashoggi accountable;
calls on the Government of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to negotiate directly with representatives of the Houthi movement in order to end the war in Yemen, agree on a political resolution, reverse the humanitarian crisis, and refocus efforts on defeating al Qaeda and ISIS in Yemen;
Full text of the resolution is *here*

So why is Trump defending the murderer?

Could it be because:

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## RabzonKhan

Trump’s Republican party 










*Some Republicans want to oust a Muslim doctor from his GOP leadership role – because he’s Muslim *
*



*
Shahid Shafi, right, with Gov. Greg Abbott (R) at the Tarrant County Republican Party’s Lincoln Day Dinner. (Courtesy of Shahid Shafi) ((Courtesy of Shahid Shafi)

By Meagan Flynn | The Washington Post

The first time Shahid Shafi ran for a seat on the city council in Southlake, Texas, in 2011, advisers assured him a Muslim in post-9/11 America who spoke with an accent and immigrated from Pakistan would never win an election in Texas.

It’s a story that Shafi, a Republican trauma surgeon, likes to tell because he didn’t believe them. He won the Southlake City Council seat on his second try, in 2014, has since served as a delegate to multiple Texas GOP conventions and, in July, was appointed vice chairman of the Tarrant County Republican Party, located in Fort Worth.

*But that’s when his religion somehow became a problem again – in the eyes of some Republican colleagues.*

Shafi hadn’t held the position in the North Texas county for more than a couple days before a precinct chairwoman urged Darl Easton, chairman of the Tarrant County Republican Party, to “reconsider” appointing Shafi to a leadership role, a request that was soon echoed by several other precinct chairs.

*“The only reason she had was because he was a Muslim,” Easton told The Washington Post. “That was the only reason she gave.”*

Since then, that precinct chairwoman, Dorrie O’Brien, and a small group of her supporters have put forth a formal motion to remove Shafi as vice chairman because of his religion, a motion that is slated for a vote on Jan. 10. To Easton, who opposes the measure, the move is an embarrassment to the Republican Party. And to Shafi, it amounts to exactly what he believed didn’t exist in the United States when he arrived here 28 years ago: a religious test.

Over the past week, the movement to oust Shafi has drawn loud condemnation from Texas GOP leaders, including Land Commissioner George P. Bush and House Speaker Joe Straus. On Saturday, the Texas GOP Executive Committee passed a formal resolution reaffirming the GOP’s commitment to religious freedom and seeking to distance the party from xenophobia they fear the motion against Shafi may embolden. *In Texas, it would not be the first time Republicans have tried to block Muslims from participating in GOP leadership roles. A Houston City Council staffer attempted, unsuccessfully, to block a Republican Harris County precinct chair in 2016.*

*“Let’s show everybody, this is the Republican Party of Texas. We are not the party of bigots,” said J.T. Edwards, a member of the State Republican Executive Committee, on Saturday while urging support for the resolution, the Austin American-Statesman reported.*

*O’Brien, who declined to speak with The Post, has publicly asserted that Shafi promotes Sharia law and is affiliated with terrorist groups while offering no evidence other than that he is a mosque-attending Muslim. In lengthy tirades on Facebook reviewed by The Post, she has accused Shafi of being a “fake Republican” who perhaps became one at the urging of the Muslim Brotherhood so that he could infiltrate the party – again, without any evidence.*

“This is, unfortunately, not the first time that people or my political opponents have tried to use my religion against me to distract the voters,” Shafi, who has fiercely denied O’Brien’s assertions, told The Post, “and unfortunately, I don’t think it will be the last either.” *Read more*


============================================

Stephen Colbert poked fun at President Donald Trump’s approval rating boasts on Thursday’s broadcast of “The Late Show.”

Colbert noted that Trump earlier in the day touted a “dubious” Rasmussen Reports poll that put his approval rating at 50 percent.

“50 percent? That’s like saying, I have two children, one of them still talks to me. ‘Father of the Year,’ please!” Colbert joked.

The comedian explained Trump followed up with a tweet claiming his rating would be at 75 percent if not for special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election and possible Trump campaign collusion.

“He’s not even trying that hard anymore,” said Colbert, who then imitated Trump to say: “Look, you would all like me a lot more if I were not me.”


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## RabzonKhan

*






Fox News’ Tucker Carlson Loses Patience With Donald Trump: ‘I Don’t Think He’s Capable’
*
*“I don’t think he’s capable of sustained focus. I don’t think he understands the system,” Carlson said in an interview with a Swiss magazine.*

Tucker Carlson is usually quick to go after critics of President Donald Trump on his nightly Fox News show.

But in a new interview with conservative Swiss magazine Die Weltwoche, the “Tucker Carlson Tonight” host called out Trump himself for his boastfulness and for failing to keep his promises to voters.

*“His chief promises were that he would build the wall, de-fund Planned Parenthood and repeal Obamacare, and he hasn’t done any of those things,” said Carlson, per The Washington Post. *

Carlson said he’d “come to believe” Trump’s role was “not as a conventional president who promises to get certain things achieved to the Congress and then does.”

“I don’t think he’s capable,” Carlson explained. “I don’t think he’s capable of sustained focus. I don’t think he understands the system. I don’t think the Congress is on his side. I don’t think his own agencies support him. He’s not going to do that.”

Carlson said it was “mostly” Trump’s fault that he hadn’t been able to deliver on his pledges, because “you really have to understand how” the legislative process works and “be very focused on getting it done.”

Trump “knows very little about the legislative process, hasn’t learned anything, hasn’t surrounded himself with people that can get it done, hasn’t done all the things you need to do so. It’s mostly his fault that he hasn’t achieved those things. I’m not in charge of Trump,” he added.

Instead, Carlson suggested Trump’s role had been “to begin the conversation” on issues such as immigration — which the conservative TV host has frequently and fervently railed against. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

*2020 Democratic primary: California and Texas look to become the new Iowa and New Hampshire

Early voting and the involvement of big states could dramatically alter the party's presidential nominating contest — and empower minority voters.




Senate candidate Beto O'Rourke pumps his fist for a cheering crowd before departing a campaign rally at the Alamo City Music Hall on Nov. 4, 2018 in San Antonio, Texas.Chip Somodevilla / Getty Images
*
Dec. 9, 2018 / 4:59 AM PST
By Alex Seitz-Wald

*WASHINGTON — A little over a year from now, millions of Californians will be mailed their ballots on the same day that Iowans head to their famous first-in-the-nation presidential caucuses. They could start mailing them back before New Hampshire holds its first-in-the-nation primary in 2020*.

Meanwhile, Texans will likely have a chance to vote early, too — even before Nevada and South Carolina, which typically round out the earliest portion of the primary calendar.

The explosion of early voting and reshuffling of the primary calendar in 2020 could transform the Democratic presidential nominating contest, potentially diminishing the power of the traditional, tiny and homogeneous early states in favor of much larger and more diverse battlegrounds. That would be a boon to the best-known candidates with warchests sizable enough to compete in big states early.

And it would empower black and Hispanic voters in large, multiracial states like California, which was a virtual afterthought at the back of the primary calendar in 2016. Criticism has mounted for years about the primacy of New Hampshire and Iowa, which are both around 90 percent white.

"Candidates will not be able to ignore the largest, most diverse state in the nation," California Secretary of State Alex Padilla said when the state moved its primary last year.

Josh Putnam, a political scientist at the University of North Carolina-Wilmington, who has for years tracked the intricacies of the presidential primary process on his blog Frontloading HQ, said the new calendar will highlight the disparity between the "have and the have nots."

"We should expect a bifurcation between the candidates who are well-financed and well-organized and who are gaming out the early vote and those who cannot," he said.

At the same time, the early states may not have the winnowing power they once did. Candidates with the resources to campaign in the bigger, delegate-rich states of March might decide to hang on regardless of their showing in the early states of February. Many strategists expect a split decision in the first four states anyway given the unusually large number of Democrats expected to run.

*Iowa helped catapult a peanut farmer from Georgia named Jimmy Carter to the White House, while New Hampshire did the same for Bill Clinton, who was little known outside his native Arkansas.*

*This time, however, the two biggest states in the country, California and Texas, will for the first time vote on the same day — March 3, "Super Tuesday," the earliest possible date that states can schedule their primaries without running afoul of Democratic National Committee rules.*

That's exactly one month after Iowa's caucuses on Feb. 3 and three weeks past New Hampshire's primary on Feb. 11.

And since both Texas and California have a robust culture of early voting — nearly six-in-10 California Democratic voters cast a ballot by mail in the 2016 presidential primary — the contests for both delegate-rich states will start even earlier.

"You have to treat California as an early state," said one top adviser to a potential candidate.
*Source*




Solomon2 said:


> *Trump calls memorial for George H.W. Bush 'a day of celebration for a great man'*
> 
> *
> 
> *
> President Donald Trump salutes alongside first lady Melania Trump in front of the flag-draped casket of former President George H.W. Bush in the Capitol Rotunda in Washington, Monday, Dec. 3, 2018. (AP Photo/Patrick Semansky)
> Dave Boyer - The Washington Times - _Updated: 9:45 a.m. on Wednesday, December 5, 2018_
> 
> President Trump isn’t speaking at the memorial service for the late President George H.W. Bush, but he’s tweeting about it.
> 
> “This is not a funeral, this is a day of celebration for a great man who has led a long and distinguished life. He will be missed!” Mr. Trump said on Twitter, adding that he is “looking forward to being with the Bush family.”
> 
> The president and first lady Melania Trump are attending the service at the Washington National Cathedral for Mr. Bush, who died Friday at age 94. Among those delivering eulogies is his son, former President George W. Bush.


Every word Trump said, as usual, was a lie, he never respected him, just this year in a rally in Montana he unnecessarily mocked him.

Trump mocks George H.W. Bush at campaign rally:


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## RabzonKhan

Trump can’t spell smoking gun! 






It wasn’t an innocent typo because he misspelled the same word twice.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1072095127894667265
And of course, Twitter erupted.

Here are some of my favorite tweets:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1072104088878399490

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1072209638722924546

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1072213540080099328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1072108070665416705

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1072099881278332929


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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1072214660043153408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1072223359985831936


Nilgiri said:


> I didn't know about this vote harvesting issue in cali that is new this year either @OsmanAli98 :


Other than this unknown guy, I have not heard anyone complaining that the Republicans lost because of ballot harvesting, not even the Republican candidates who lost, have you?

Bty, Are you following North Carolina’s voter fraud case?


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> Other than this unknown guy, I have not heard anyone complaining that the Republicans lost because of ballot harvesting, not even the Republican candidates who lost, have you?



If you watched the entire video, you would have seen Dana Rohrbacher team bring it up in their post-analysis.

Also plenty of GOP on the record quotes here:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/ballo...a-house-races-after-election-day_2730138.html

@Desert Fox @OsmanAli98 @VCheng



RabzonKhan said:


> Bty, Are you following North Carolina’s voter fraud case?



Yup, seems hypocritical from democrat party that indulges and supports voter fraud openly.

Dieing gasps from a party about to get gerrymandered to the nines come 2021.

_Forgive them father, they know not what they do._

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> If you watched the entire video, you would have seen Dana Rohrbacher team bring it up in their post-analysis.
> 
> Also plenty of GOP on the record quotes here:
> 
> https://www.theepochtimes.com/ballo...a-house-races-after-election-day_2730138.html
> 
> @Desert Fox @OsmanAli98 @VCheng
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, seems hypocritical from democrat party that indulges and supports voter fraud openly.
> 
> Dieing gasps from a party about to get gerrymandered to the nines come 2021.
> 
> _Forgive them father, they know not what they do._



If you think there is a circus going on now, just wait until the leadership of the House passes to the Democrats and Mueller winds up his investigation.

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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> If you think there is a circus going on now, just wait until the leadership of the House passes to the Democrats and Mueller winds up his investigation.



I got lot of popcorn ready ....simply because its clear Mueller has squat on an actual crime by Trump.

Anything else (and democrat desperation in pushing such in house over actual concerns voiced by electorate like health, economy, infra etc) will serve only to rile up Trump base and moderates that have been screamed at nonstop (by paid dem media) that theres a crime somewhere in the end....and thats just gonna help 2020 result. Even MSM polling puts 54+% of American people (right now) believing the mueller probe is politically biased.

Oh and lets see if pelosi even gets elected as speaker first


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> I got lot of popcorn ready ....simply because its clear Mueller has squat on an actual crime by Trump.
> 
> Anything else (and democrat desperation in pushing such in house over actual concerns voiced by electorate like health, economy, infra etc) will serve only to rile up Trump base and moderates that have been screamed at nonstop (by paid dem media) that theres a crime somewhere in the end....and thats just gonna help 2020 result. Even MSM polling puts 54+% of American people (right now) believing the mueller probe is politically biased.
> 
> Oh and lets see if pelosi even gets elected as speaker first



Trump's greatest utility will be to act as a disruptor of the existing system by washing out the old guard. It will be interesting to watch all the turmoil, but I am sure it will all work out for the better in the end. Trump might even get a second term.

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## VCheng

Cohen gets three years in jail and $50k fine. Who's next?

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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> Trump's greatest utility will be to act as a disruptor of the existing system by washing out the old guard. It will be interesting to watch all the turmoil, but I am sure it will all work out for the better in the end. Trump might even get a second term.



Trump will definitely get a 2nd term. Did you see schoomer and pelosi in the white house ...."lets not disagree so openly on policy in front of the public mr president" 

They still are clueless as to what the public thinks of such elitism....people voted Trump to see exactly the issues being brought to knifeedge openly and clearly in the light by the people they elected....not the same ole same ole monolith party + "talk"/wink+nodding in the nooks and crannies of the dark swamp that pelosi and schoomer are clearly still tethered to.


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## RabzonKhan

Trump is such a clown he took Democrat senator Schumer’s bait, for shutting down his own government, "I am proud to shut down the government for border security,".

Clearly an average American has more commonsense than Trump, according to newly released poll by the NPR – PBS NewsHour –Marist poll, 57% appear in favor of a compromise and oppose risking a government shutdown over the wall. And 69% do not believe building a wall should even be an immediate priority.

Here’s something interesting, Trump wants 5 billion this year for the wall or he will shut down his own government, Sen Schumer claimed that 1.3 billion Congress gave Trump administration last year for the border Security (wall) less than 6% have been spent, in other words, they could not even spend all of the 1.3 billion, but now he wants 5 billion.

And then as usual, Trump lied, the man cannot breathe without lying, he claimed that “10 terrorists were arrested over the last very short period of time,” now imagine that, we’re supposed to believe 10 terrorists were arrested and damn fox news did not even reported it, if that had happened, they would have be running headline news after every 10 freaking minutes.






Bty, what the heck happened, we were told Mexico was going to pay for the wall? 








VCheng said:


> Cohen gets three years in jail and $50k fine. Who's next?


Remember, candidate Trump promised American people that he will only hire the best and brightest.

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## RabzonKhan

Nilgiri said:


> If you watched the entire video, you would have seen Dana Rohrbacher team bring it up in their post-analysis.


I did watch the entire video, Dana Rohrbacher did not even mentioned anything about ballot harvesting or voter fraud, he was complaining about outside billionaires funding his opponent, now that’s rich, the party of big corporate, supported by the Koch brothers, are complaining about billionaires, looks like they don’t like dose of their own medicine. 




> Also plenty of GOP on the record quotes here:
> 
> https://www.theepochtimes.com/ballo...a-house-races-after-election-day_2730138.html


None of them were claiming voter fraud. In fact, Matt Fleming a spokesman for the California GOP told Fox News:

“To say we were caught flat-footed by this (new law) is just not true. “We were well aware of this, *we even did it ourselves*, we pay attention to election laws.”

He blamed the GOP losses in California on changing demographics in the state, a large cash infusion for Democrat candidates and a heightened enthusiasm among the Democratic base in the run-up to the election. “Democrats desire to send a message to the president and the blue wave that occurred everywhere but in the U.S. Senate, really affected the outcome,”.

There you have it, no cheating, no fraud, it was the blue wave!




> Yup, seems hypocritical from democrat party that indulges and supports voter fraud openly.
> 
> Dieing gasps from a party about to get gerrymandered to the nines come 2021.
> 
> _Forgive them father, they know not what they do._


Sorry to say but that’s Republican baseless propaganda. Let’s look at some solid facts, a five-year probe initiated by Pres W. Bush administration found 120 cases of voter fraud.

In spite of Trump’s big claims that 3 to 5 million people voted illegally, before his panel pack their bags they found no voter fraud. That’s beyond hilarious, don’t you think?

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Trump will definitely get a 2nd term. Did you see schoomer and pelosi in the white house ...."lets not disagree so openly on policy in front of the public mr president"
> 
> They still are clueless as to what the public thinks of such elitism....people voted Trump to see exactly the issues being brought to knifeedge openly and clearly in the light by the people they elected....not the same ole same ole monolith party + "talk"/wink+nodding in the nooks and crannies of the dark swamp that pelosi and schoomer are clearly still tethered to.



The next election will be a memorable one, no matter what the outcome, that is for sure.



RabzonKhan said:


> Remember, candidate Trump promised American people that he will only hire the best and brightest.



Candidates say many things, and not just in USA, as we know.

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## RabzonKhan

*The nation’s cartoonists on the week in politics




*











=========================================================

*Stephen Colbert unpacks Trump's heated Pelosi and Schumer meeting





*


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## Cobra Arbok

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump is such a clown he took Democrat senator Schumer’s bait, for shutting down his own government, "I am proud to shut down the government for border security,".
> 
> Clearly an average American has more commonsense than Trump, according to newly released poll by the NPR – PBS NewsHour –Marist poll, 57% appear in favor of a compromise and oppose risking a government shutdown over the wall. And 69% do not believe building a wall should even be an immediate priority.
> 
> Here’s something interesting, Trump wants 5 billion this year for the wall or he will shut down his own government, Sen Schumer claimed that 1.3 billion Congress gave Trump administration last year for the border Security (wall) less than 6% have been spent, in other words, they could not even spend all of the 1.3 billion, but now he wants 5 billion.
> 
> And then as usual, Trump lied, the man cannot breathe without lying, he claimed that “10 terrorists were arrested over the last very short period of time,” now imagine that, we’re supposed to believe 10 terrorists were arrested and damn fox news did not even reported it, if that had happened, they would have be running headline news after every 10 freaking minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bty, what the heck happened, we were told Mexico was going to pay for the wall?
> 
> View attachment 526151
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, candidate Trump promised American people that he will only hire the best and brightest.


Actually, Trump came out on top after that meeting because he was able to expose the Democrats' lies that they care about border security. Trump showed that all he wants is a wall and that he is willing to compromise on anything else, and he can now claim the democrats do not care about Us National Security. Pelosi probably looked tough enough to impress her fellow dems and win the speakership, but she will get as much if not more blame if there is a shutdown in January. Keep in mind that government shutdowns rarely have significant economic effects and will hurt the democrats more than trump. If there is a shutdown, Schumer will fold like he did last year and rump will come on top. Overall, trump has made it clear he is going to fight for border security and not give in to the democrats and he made pelosi and Schumer look weak. He will win any shutdown fight and there i nothing democrats can do to stop him.

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## Nilgiri

Cobra Arbok said:


> Actually, Trump came out on top after that meeting because he was able to expose the Democrats' lies that they care about border security. Trump showed that all he wants is a wall and that he is willing to compromise on anything else, and he can now claim the democrats do not care about Us National Security. Pelosi probably looked tough enough to impress her fellow dems and win the speakership, but she will get as much if not more blame if there is a shutdown in January. Keep in mind that government shutdowns rarely have significant economic effects and will hurt the democrats more than trump. If there is a shutdown, Schumer will fold like he did last year and rump will come on top. Overall, trump has made it clear he is going to fight for border security and not give in to the democrats and he made pelosi and Schumer look weak. He will win any shutdown fight and there i nothing democrats can do to stop him.



Its ok....Killary "won" all the debates with Trump as well...handily!

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## Nilgiri

Why Allegations of Campaign Finance Violations Won’t Bring Down Trump 

https://pjmedia.com/trending/why-allegations-of-campaign-finance-violations-wont-bring-down-trump/

Obama is guilty of WORSE and nothing happened.

By Matt Margolis December 13, 2018

pjmedia.com

I think we can all agree that the whole Trump-Russia collusion thing has gone down the toilet because Democrats are not talking about it anymore. Instead, they are pinning their hopes on weak allegations of “illegal” campaign finance violations over hush money payments made to two women alleging affairs. To hear Trump’s enemies talk about it, they think they’ve finally found the issue that will take Trump down.

Like the Trump-Russia nonsense before it, this campaign finance violation approach to bringing down Trump will fail. Why? One only has to look to Trump’s predecessor, who committed far worse campaign violations, for the answer.

In 2008, Barack Obama’s presidential campaign, riding high on grassroots donations, failed to incorporate basic verification and security protocols to prevent fraudulent or perhaps international donations to the campaign.

The Washington Post reported on October 29, 2008:

Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign is allowing donors to use largely untraceable prepaid credit cards that could potentially be used to evade limits on how much an individual is legally allowed to give or to mask a contributor's identity, campaign officials confirmed. Faced with a huge influx of donations over the Internet, the campaign has also chosen not to use basic security measures to prevent potentially illegal or anonymous contributions from flowing into its accounts, aides acknowledged. Instead, the campaign is scrutinizing its books for improper donations after the money has been deposited.

Now, why would the Obama campaign have such faulty security for donations? Remember, in 2008, Obama was raising record amounts of money, and he flip-flopped on his promise to accept public funding in the general election. Donations were the life-blood of his campaign, enabling him to outraise and outspend John McCain in the crucial final months of the campaign. Why were they using shoddy security that would “make it impossible to tell whether foreign nationals, donors who have exceeded the limits, government contractors or others who are barred from giving to a federal campaign are making contributions”? Does anyone really believe no one on the Obama team knew that from the beginning?

Would you believe that the Obama campaign was up to the same shenanigans in 2012? Former PJ Media editor Bryan Preston reported that of all the presidential campaigns that year, the Obama campaign, once again, was the only one not using basic security measures to prevent fraudulent or untraceable donations. That's right, despite the Washington Post report in 2008, and despite the ongoing audit of their 2008 campaign, they didn't clean up their act in 2012. Why would they do that? Because they knew that the worst that could happen was that they would have to pay a fine—after the election was over. Which is exactly what happened. In April 2012, the Obama campaign was fined $375,000 for campaign finance violations over their shady 2008 donations and other reporting issues. It was a huge fine that Obama supporters and the media said wasn't a big deal.

Attempts to compare Obama’s campaign finance violations with what Trump is being accused of now (offering hush money to women he allegedly had affairs with to—gasp!—influence the election) are scoffed at by Trump’s critics by writing off the Obama violations as merely clerical issues rather than intentional subversions of campaign finance laws. Seriously? Are we expected to believe that no one in Obama’s campaign organization believed that standard security on credit card donations was necessary in 2008? Or how about the fact that even after being called out on it in 2008, they were still accepting shady donations, enabling foreign nationals to donate, and others to skirt donation limits in 2012? Dinesh D’Souza was tried, convicted, and sentenced to five years probation and eight months in a community confinement center for less.

As others have pointed out, hush money payments are not illegal, nor are they matters of campaign finance. Bradley Smith, the former chairman of the Federal Election Commission, goes into detail at National Review to explain why Michael Cohen, Donald Trump’s former personal attorney, actually pled guilty to something that isn’t even a crime because hush money payments are not campaign expenditures and therefore there was “no violation of the Federal Election Campaign Act.”

...imagine a wealthy entrepreneur who decides to run for office. Like many men and women with substantial business activities, at any one time there are likely several lawsuits pending against him personally, or against those various businesses. The candidate calls in his company attorney: “I want all outstanding lawsuits against our various enterprises settled.” His lawyer protests that the suits are without merit — the company should clearly win at trial, and he should protect his reputation of not settling meritless lawsuits. “I agree that these suits lack merit,” says our candidate, “but I don’t want them as a distraction during the campaign, and I don’t want to take the risk that the papers will use them to portray me as a heartless tycoon. Get them settled.” The settlements in this hypothetical are made “for the purpose of influencing the election,” yet they are not “expenditures” under the Federal Election Campaign Act. Indeed, if they were, the candidate would have to pay for them with campaign funds. Thus, an unscrupulous but popular businessman could declare his candidacy, gather contributions from the public, use those contributions to settle various preexisting lawsuits, and then withdraw from the race. A nice trick!

Another relevant example would be the hush money Obama attempted to pay his former pastor, the anti-American racist Jeremiah Wright. According to Wright, Barack Obama secretly met with him and asked him not to do “any more public speaking until after the November election” because it would “hurt the campaign.” A close friend of Obama then offered Wright $150,000 to keep quiet. Wright refused, but the offer was made.

Keep in mind, top Democrats are saying Trump should be impeached and possibly jailed over his alleged campaign finance violations. By the standard they’re setting, Obama should have been impeached, and should, even now, face jail time for his far more egregious campaign finance violations.

Democrats know they’re barking up the wrong tree, but their base wants them to pull no punches in their quest to stop Trump. Just sit back and relax. Everything that’s playing out now is simply political theater at its most extreme level.


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## RabzonKhan

*Nevada will be first state with female-majority Legislature*

*Women will hold 51 percent of the 63 seats in the Nevada Legislature.*

*By Associated Press*

LAS VEGAS — Nevada became the first state in the U.S. with an overall female majority in the Legislature on Tuesday when county officials in Las Vegas appointed two women to fill vacancies in the state Assembly.

The appointments of Democrats Rochelle Thuy Nguyen and Beatrice "Bea" Angela Duran to two Las Vegas-area legislative seats give women 51 percent of the 63 seats in the Legislature.


Women will hold nine of 21 seats in the state Senate, falling short of a majority in that chamber. But they will hold 23 of 42 seats in the Assembly, comprising 55 percent in that chamber and giving women enough numbers to make the two chambers an overall female majority.

No state has previously had a female-majority or even a 50 percent-female Legislature, according to the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers University, which tracks women's political representation.

Women picked up seats in the Nevada Assembly and Senate during the 2018 November election but fell short of an overall majority. Vacancies created by lawmakers who won election to other offices in November, along with one sitting female lawmaker then allowed women to gain additional seats.

Before 2018, New Hampshire was the first state to have a female majority in any legislative chamber, when women held a majority in the New Hampshire state Senate in 2009 and 2010.

With the 2018 election, women cracked the 50 percent threshold in the Nevada state Assembly and Colorado State House, but no overall majority was reached until the Nevada appointments.

"It is unprecedented at this point to see a majority female legislature overall," said Kelly Dittmar, an assistant professor of political science at Rutgers-Camden.

With the two Nevada appointments, women will make up 28.6 percent of state legislators nationwide when new legislators are sworn into office in 2019, according to data from the Center for American Women and Politics. *Read more*



Cobra Arbok said:


> Actually, Trump came out on top after that meeting because he was able to expose the Democrats' lies that they care about border security. Trump showed that all he wants is a wall and that he is willing to compromise on anything else, and he can now claim the democrats do not care about Us National Security. Pelosi probably looked tough enough to impress her fellow dems and win the speakership, but she will get as much if not more blame if there is a shutdown in January. Keep in mind that government shutdowns rarely have significant economic effects and will hurt the democrats more than trump. If there is a shutdown, Schumer will fold like he did last year and rump will come on top. Overall, trump has made it clear he is going to fight for border security and not give in to the democrats and he made pelosi and Schumer look weak. He will win any shutdown fight and there i nothing democrats can do to stop him.


When Trump took Schumer’s bait during the White House brawl and said, he would be “proud” to shut down the government, “I will be the one to shut it down,” “I’m not going to blame you for it.” Boom, right there, he lost the leverage, now he cannot blame the Democrats, because he took full responsibility for shutting down the government, big blunder.

He is not going to get 5 billion, that’s for sure. He has stuck himself in a shithole, too bad, he and his Republican party will soon have to find a face-saving rope to pull him out of the shithole. 

If they do not act fast, a shutdown could occur at midnight Friday four days before Christmas disrupting government operation and leaving thousands of federal employees without pay over the holiday season.

No, my friend, he is not going to win this battle and we’ll know who won in two days.

Cheers!


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## RabzonKhan

There he goes again, since he put himself in a shithole over his stupid wall demands, to change the news cycle, he has put himself in a deeper shithole. The genius woke up and tweeted:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1075397797929775105
Of course, most experts and even his own Pentagon knows that’s a lie.

So, what happened to the so-called policy goals, defeating ISIS, protecting our Kurdish allies, kicking out Iran from Syria among other issues? Maybe Trump forgot he was quick in criticizing Pres Obama for his decision to pull troops out of Iraq, isn’t he making a similar mistake, I think he knows ISIS has not been fully defeated, despite his BS claim. 

But one thing is quite clear, this is a great victory for ISIS, Iran and Russia. Putin was quick in welcoming Trump’s decision to withdraw American troops from Syria, calling it the right decision.

==============================================


The Late Show host mocked Trump after reading his tweet and added his own hot take in his Trumpian voice saying, “…but after the Trump presidency I might head over there because I’ll be on the run from the law and there will be no troops to find me.”

Colbert sarcastically added, “I know that this might shock you…what he said might not be true.” He said that the tweet might have come as a surprise to a little organization called the Pentagon because according to the Defense Department, the number of ISIS members in Syria and Iraq is as high as 30,000…and allies are on the cusp of capturing the last major town held by ISIS east of the Euphrates.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1075566453951057920


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## RabzonKhan

A sad day for America and its allies around the world. Defense Secretary Gen Mattis resigns in protest at Trump’s stupid policies. He will leave Trump’s madhouse at the end of February. It is well known that he disagreed with clown’s many foreign policy decisions, but I think pulling out troops from Syria was the final straw, clearly the great General had enough with the clown.

In his resignation letter he didn’t hide his feelings. He cited the importance of US alliances, “One core belief I have always held is that our strength as a nation is inextricably linked to the strength of our unique and comprehensive system of alliances and partnerships.” “While the US remains the indispensable nation in the free world, we cannot protect our interests or that role effectively without maintaining strong alliances and showing respect to those allies.” Clearly a rebuke to Trump’s treatment of our NATO allies. He also warned the dangers US faces from authoritarian countries such as China and Russia.

I noticed at no point in the letter he offered any gratitude or praise of Trump.

============================================

Chaos, Gen Mattis resigns, Stocks sink, shutdown looms, who needs enemies.


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## SALMAN F

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 527987
> 
> 
> A sad day for America and its allies around the world. Defense Secretary Gen Mattis resigns in protest at Trump’s stupid policies. He will leave Trump’s madhouse at the end of February. It is well known that he disagreed with clown’s many foreign policy decisions, but I think pulling out troops from Syria was the final straw, clearly the great General had enough with the clown.
> 
> In his resignation letter he didn’t hide his feelings. He cited the importance of US alliances, “One core belief I have always held is that our strength as a nation is inextricably linked to the strength of our unique and comprehensive system of alliances and partnerships.” “While the US remains the indispensable nation in the free world, we cannot protect our interests or that role effectively without maintaining strong alliances and showing respect to those allies.” Clearly a rebuke to Trump’s treatment of our NATO allies. He also warned the dangers US faces from authoritarian countries such as China and Russia.
> 
> I noticed at no point in the letter he offered any gratitude or praise of Trump.
> 
> ============================================
> 
> Chaos, Gen Mattis resigns, Stocks sink, shutdown looms, who needs enemies.


It’s up to the americans to decide what the best for their country you are Pakistani you have no say and don’t act you care about America you just hate trump because he is against you unlike the demo liberal leftist scumbags

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## RabzonKhan

SALMAN F said:


> It’s up to the americans to decide what the best for their country you are Pakistani you have no say and don’t act you care about America you just hate trump because he is against you unlike the demo liberal leftist scumbags


I don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m a proud American and I do care because this is my country. Became an American citizen in 2014.

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## SALMAN F

RabzonKhan said:


> I don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m a proud American and I do care because this is my country. Became an American citizen in 2014.


No you only care about your own interests 

Because we know trump is doing the best for America


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## RabzonKhan

Trump’s government shutdown begins as talks falter over his stupid border wall that supposedly Mexico was going to pay for.

Departments and Agencies that can be impacted by the shutdown are Homeland Security, Interior, Transportation, Treasury, Housing, State, Agriculture, Commerce and Environment. Thanks to Trump, more than 800,000 federal employees will have to work without pay over the Christmas season.

It’s so disgusting he has shut down the government during Christmas season (where is his damn Christmas spirit) over the border wall that he repeatedly during his campaign and after he became president said Mexico was going to pay for it.

And then there is so much confusion, first he said he would be proud to shut down the government, then he gave the green light to his Republican Senators to pass a temporarily spending bill without border funding, but then he changed his mind again because some of his crazy right-wing supporters like, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham and the so-called Conservative Freedom Caucus got upset with him, in other words, the Pres of United States shutdown the government to please his right-wing nuts supporters.

But here’s the irony, his supporters are saying by shutting down the government Trump is fulfilling the promise he made to them, but maybe they forgot that his original promise was that he is going to build wall that Mexico was going to pay for, but now he wants to force American taxpayers to pay for that useless wall.

On numerous occasions Trump said Mexico was going to pay for the wall: *Sources*

But now, Trump is threatening a very long government shutdown as he tries to shift blame to Democrats. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1076082577281347584

Here’s what he was saying last week. Notice, he was telling the Democrats that "I will take the mantle" "I'm not going to blame you for it".


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1076135495938265088
Democrat Sen Schumer and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi rightly countered that the shutdown was the result of Trump’s temper tantrum and said they had offered him multiple proposals to keep the government open, which of course, he rejected.

They also pointed out that the Republicans control the White House, Senate and the House, but instead of honoring his responsibility to the American people he has pushed our nation into a destructive shutdown during the Christmas season. And said that during the White House meeting Trump had said more than 25 times that he wanted a shutdown and now he has gotten what he wanted. So true!



SALMAN F said:


> No you only care about your own interests
> 
> Because we know trump is doing the best for America


I don’t want to sound rude, but you are making no sense. So please go ahead and tell me what are my “own interest”?

Thanks @Nilgiri I really appreciate that.


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> Thanks @Nilgiri I really appreciate that.



As I have told @Joe Shearer I much appreciate those that can cogently put down their point of view and argument...esp for those I disagree with. There is no question you love the US and want whats best for it....just the amount of time you have dedicated in this thread should amply illustrate it. I for one do much appreciate to see how events gather and percolate as you see fit to present them...it gives me a valued reference point.

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## SALMAN F

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump’s government shutdown begins as talks falter over his stupid border wall that supposedly Mexico was going to pay for.
> 
> Departments and Agencies that can be impacted by the shutdown are Homeland Security, Interior, Transportation, Treasury, Housing, State, Agriculture, Commerce and Environment. Thanks to Trump, more than 800,000 federal employees will have to work without pay over the Christmas season.
> 
> It’s so disgusting he has shut down the government during Christmas season (where is his damn Christmas spirit) over the border wall that he repeatedly during his campaign and after he became president said Mexico was going to pay for it.
> 
> And then there is so much confusion, first he said he would be proud to shut down the government, then he gave the green light to his Republican Senators to pass a temporarily spending bill without border funding, but then he changed his mind again because some of his crazy right-wing supporters like, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham and the so-called Conservative Freedom Caucus got upset with him, in other words, the Pres of United States shutdown the government to please his right-wing nuts supporters.
> 
> But here’s the irony, his supporters are saying by shutting down the government Trump is fulfilling the promise he made to them, but maybe they forgot that his original promise was that he is going to build wall that Mexico was going to pay for, but now he wants to force American taxpayers to pay for that useless wall.
> 
> On numerous occasions Trump said Mexico was going to pay for the wall: *Sources*
> 
> But now, Trump is threatening a very long government shutdown as he tries to shift blame to Democrats.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1076082577281347584
> 
> Here’s what he was saying last week. Notice, he was telling the Democrats that "I will take the mantle" "I'm not going to blame you for it".
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1076135495938265088
> Democrat Sen Schumer and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi rightly countered that the shutdown was the result of Trump’s temper tantrum and said they had offered him multiple proposals to keep the government open, which of course, he rejected.
> 
> They also pointed out that the Republicans control the White House, Senate and the House, but instead of honoring his responsibility to the American people he has pushed our nation into a destructive shutdown during the Christmas season. And said that during the White House meeting Trump had said more than 25 times that he wanted a shutdown and now he has gotten what he wanted. So true!
> 
> 
> I don’t want to sound rude, but you are making no sense. So please go ahead and tell me what are my “own interest”?
> 
> Thanks @Nilgiri I really appreciate that.


You want a president prefer the immigrants over a president that care only for Americans so that’s say much about you and your love and loyalty for USA


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## Cobra Arbok

RabzonKhan said:


> *Nevada will be first state with female-majority Legislature*
> 
> *Women will hold 51 percent of the 63 seats in the Nevada Legislature.*
> 
> *By Associated Press*
> 
> LAS VEGAS — Nevada became the first state in the U.S. with an overall female majority in the Legislature on Tuesday when county officials in Las Vegas appointed two women to fill vacancies in the state Assembly.
> 
> The appointments of Democrats Rochelle Thuy Nguyen and Beatrice "Bea" Angela Duran to two Las Vegas-area legislative seats give women 51 percent of the 63 seats in the Legislature.
> 
> 
> Women will hold nine of 21 seats in the state Senate, falling short of a majority in that chamber. But they will hold 23 of 42 seats in the Assembly, comprising 55 percent in that chamber and giving women enough numbers to make the two chambers an overall female majority.
> 
> No state has previously had a female-majority or even a 50 percent-female Legislature, according to the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers University, which tracks women's political representation.
> 
> Women picked up seats in the Nevada Assembly and Senate during the 2018 November election but fell short of an overall majority. Vacancies created by lawmakers who won election to other offices in November, along with one sitting female lawmaker then allowed women to gain additional seats.
> 
> Before 2018, New Hampshire was the first state to have a female majority in any legislative chamber, when women held a majority in the New Hampshire state Senate in 2009 and 2010.
> 
> With the 2018 election, women cracked the 50 percent threshold in the Nevada state Assembly and Colorado State House, but no overall majority was reached until the Nevada appointments.
> 
> "It is unprecedented at this point to see a majority female legislature overall," said Kelly Dittmar, an assistant professor of political science at Rutgers-Camden.
> 
> With the two Nevada appointments, women will make up 28.6 percent of state legislators nationwide when new legislators are sworn into office in 2019, according to data from the Center for American Women and Politics. *Read more*
> 
> 
> When Trump took Schumer’s bait during the White House brawl and said, he would be “proud” to shut down the government, “I will be the one to shut it down,” “I’m not going to blame you for it.” Boom, right there, he lost the leverage, now he cannot blame the Democrats, because he took full responsibility for shutting down the government, big blunder.
> 
> He is not going to get 5 billion, that’s for sure. He has stuck himself in a shithole, too bad, he and his Republican party will soon have to find a face-saving rope to pull him out of the shithole.
> 
> If they do not act fast, a shutdown could occur at midnight Friday four days before Christmas disrupting government operation and leaving thousands of federal employees without pay over the holiday season.
> 
> No, my friend, he is not going to win this battle and we’ll know who won in two days.
> 
> Cheers!


trump made it clear he did not want to shut down the government, but Nancy and Chuck gave him no choice. trump does not go back on his promises to his constituents, and he cares about the safety and security of Americans. Thus he is willing to shut down non-essential gov departments. And the house approved a budget with 5 billion for the border wall, which means the shutdown is only Schumer's fault. 

Schumer thought he was acting tough and baiting Trump, but he was only cornering himself. At the best he just looked like Nancy's minion, at the worst he embarrassed himself on National television. And now he is responsible for shutting down the gov.

As for Nevada, yeah that state has been trending blue. it's all the California transpants and illegal immigrants. Quite a shame, since it is actually a decent state due to its libertarian policies. I was actually there last year.

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## Nilgiri

Worth reading when you have a little time to get things a little more from my perspective @hellfire :

https://www.americanthinker.com/art...he_adults_who_act_and_govern_as_children.html

@Desert Fox

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## Solomon2

​
*

 KAROL MARKOWICZ*
OPINION

*How the Trump presidency made me a better American*
By Karol Markowicz

December 30, 2018 | 11:10pm






Donald TrumpAFP/Getty Images

Nearly two years after his inauguration, I have concluded that President Trump has made me a better person.

For starters, I’m more compassionate. After the election, I was as dazed and confused as anyone in the political-media bubble. To understand what happened, I devoured reporting about Trump voters and sought to understand them.

I wasn’t some liberal, mind you. I had worked for years in Republican politics. Yet I hadn’t known any Trump primary voters. I didn’t know his fans, his base.

Reading their concerns was eye-opening. They weren’t stupid, and they weren’t hateful. Mainstream politicians had ignored them for so long that they took a wild chance on the reality-TV star from Queens.

At the same time, because I wasn’t a Trump voter, I understood the pain of people frightened by his win. Caring about his voters didn’t preclude caring about his opponents, I found.

I talked down friends who thought America was over because of his presidency. I exulted in our institutions and checks and balances, and I defended them when they were attacked by Trump — or his adversaries.

America seemed more divided than ever, but being scared of change is a human emotion that we all share. And whatever you think of Trump, he represented a massive change from the status quo ante.

That change has transformed me in another way, as well. To wit, Trump has made me less partisan. I’ve disagreed with plenty of policies of Republican presidents in the past, but I still always felt the need to defend GOP administrations; they were on “my team.”

The beauty, and the curse, of the Trump administration is that the man at the top is on his own team. I can see clearly the good and the bad that his office produces, and there is no need to sugarcoat any of it. Tax cut, good. Tariffs, bad. I can praise the first, criticize the second and stay true to my own beliefs.

His presidency also helped me refine which issues truly matter to me and which only appeared to matter because “my party” happened to be pushing them.

I remember caring deeply about President George W. Bush’s effort to partially privatize Social Security. But when the issue faded away, it barely left an imprint on my mind. No longer tied to a political personality or party, my main issues now remain fairly consistent.

Then, too, the mainstream media were largely on a break from history during the eight years of President Barack Obama’s tenure, and it has been gratifying watching them catch up. So many stories about the outrages of the Trump administration are immediately followed by stories of how, actually, “Obama did this, too.”

This made me face my own hypocrisy. When the story broke that Trump was separating migrant children from their parents at the border, I was heartbroken and disgusted. But the follow-up reports, about how the Obama administration took similar action, were even harder to stomach.

Where was I? Where were any of us?

As Franco Ordoñez and Anita Kumar reported for McClatchy in June, when it comes to illegal immigration, the two administrations mainly differ over rhetoric.

According to Ordoñez and Kumar, the Obama administration separated children from their parents, built more and larger facilities that have since been criticized and took other controversial steps, “including fighting to block efforts to require unaccompanied children to have legal representation.”

That this went ignored is shameful, and it has impelled me to be more vigilant going forward.

I have also resisted the siren call of “Trump does it, so it makes it OK.” As I have written in these pages, Trump’s name-calling has made me check my own impulse to let insults fly.

Trump being a mirror for my conduct was clarifying. It didn’t make any sense for me to criticize the president for behavior that I engaged in. Yet so many people lean into the Trumpian way as a way of . . . countering Trump.

There must be a way to move beyond Trump and our culture’s ugliness, which transcends one presidency. Americans can resolve to be better people, instead of racing to the bottom. We won’t always have Trump to blame for our bad behavior. It might be best to start improving it now.

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## RabzonKhan

*Nancy Pelosi elected Speaker of the House. 
*
Pelosi, the only woman to have ever served as House speaker, was re-elected to the post on Thursday as Democrats took control of the House after eight years in the minority.
*




*
Two key lines in Nancy Pelosi's victory speech were about Reagan and Bush.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) in her first address to the 116th Congress declared the beginning of "a new dawn" but pledged to work across the aisle, citing two past Republican presidents in the process.

Pelosi in her address said Democrats will protect DREAMers, and she made her case by citing former President Ronald Reagan, who said in his last speech as president, "If we ever closed the door to new Americans, our leadership in the world would soon be lost." When Republicans in the chamber didn't clap along with Democrats in response to this line, Pelosi said, "You don't applaud for Ronald Reagan?"

Soon after, Pelosi paid tribute to former President George H.W. Bush, who she called a "cherished former member of this body" and a "beloved" commander-in-chief. She said, "Today, I single out one of his great achievements: working with both Democrats and Republicans to write the Americans With Disabilities Act into the laws of our land."

Pelosi also promised that the 116th Congress will be "transparent, bipartisan and unifying" and that Democrats will "seek to reach across the aisle in this chamber and across the divisions in this great nation." At the same time, she pledged to address income inequality, protect Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, and work to combat climate change, saying that in the midterm elections, "the American people spoke, and demanded a new dawn."


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## RabzonKhan

SALMAN F said:


> You want a president prefer the immigrants over a president that care only for Americans so that’s say much about you and your love and loyalty for USA


Now, you are talking like a lousy psychic.  No president in his right mind would “prefer the immigrants over the Americans”. Look, America is a democracy, not some third world sectarian country, the first Amendment gives us the right to criticize our government without fear.

The fact is, we are a Nation of immigrants, Trump himself is the son, and grandson, of immigrants. His grandfather was a German immigrant and his mother was from Scotland, both of whom did not even damn speak English. Two of his three wives were immigrants from Czech Republic and Slovenia. Only one of his five children, Tiffany, is the child of two American-born citizens.

Here’s a very interesting quote from President Ronald Reagan, hopefully this will make you understand what America is all about: Reagan appreciated that America is a nation of immigrants, but more than that, he understood that the great attraction of immigrants to America was not simply greater economic opportunity but the dream of freedom--the American dream--that the nation represents. The promise of America is not just a better material life but that you can become an American.

Becoming an American is much more than simply getting a legal document attesting to the bearer's privileges of citizenship. Here's how Reagan explained it in a 1988 speech:

"America represents something universal in the human spirit. I received a letter not long ago from a man who said, 'You can go to Japan to live, but you cannot become Japanese. You can go to France to live and not become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany or Turkey, and you won't become a German or a Turk.' *But then he added, 'Anybody from any corner of the world can come to America to live and become an American.


*


Cobra Arbok said:


> trump made it clear he did not want to shut down the government, but Nancy and Chuck gave him no choice.


The fact of the matter is, after getting green signal from the Trump administration, the Republican-controlled Senate passed a bipartisan spending bill that included 1.3 billion for the border Security and for a while it seemed everything was going smoothly, but then all of the sudden Trump changed his mind, we all know why, because Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Laura Ingraham, and Fox News guests and hosts severely criticized and condemned him for reneging on his campaign promise to construct a wall.

So, how is it Nancy and Chuck’s fault if the Pres of United States gets scared and changes his mind because he could not handle criticism from the right-wing extremist?

And no one was holding a gun to his head, the president did have a choice, he could have avoided the TrumpShutdown had he agreed to sign on to Senate spending bill (that initially he was okay with) and would have kept the government open. Shutting down his own government for the wall was not worth it, there was no emergency or crisis on the border, according to Trump, thanks to Border Patrol, ICE, and our Military, border is tight:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1075732375169060869
On December 11, Trump’s words “I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck (addressing Democrat senator Chuck Schumer) I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I’m not going to blame you for it.” The “great negotiator” took the bait and lost the leveraged, he can try as hard as he wants to blame the Democrats for the shutdown, but it’s too late, majority of Americans are not buying it. *Link* 

The bottom line is, in 2016 elections American voters elected him, not Nancy or Schumer to lead the country. It is his responsibility to keep the government open and running smoothly, the shutdown is his fault. 

Here’s something interesting for you:

In a September 2013 Fox & Friends phone interview, Trump blasted Obama for failing to "get everybody in a room."

"If you say who gets fired, it always has to be the top. Problems start from the top, and they have to get solved from the top, and the president’s the leader, and he’s got to get everybody in a room, and he’s got to lead. And he doesn’t do that, he doesn’t like doing that, that’s not his strength."

Trump also said that further down in history "when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of, who the president was at that time. They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington. So I really think the pressure is on the president." *Source*




> trump does not go back on his promises to his constituents, and he cares about the safety and security of Americans.


The million-dollar question is, then why is he not keeping his promise to his constituents?

Just to refresh everyone’s memory:

from 2015 to 2018, Trump repeatedly told his supporters that Mexico will pay for the wall, mark my words.

"I would build a great wall, and nobody builds walls better than me. Believe me. And I'll build it very inexpensively. I'll build a great, great wall on our southern border and I will have Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words,"

And here’s more:

*Trump says Mexico Will Pay for a Wall Compilation*









> Thus he is willing to shut down non-essential gov departments.


Let’s not ignore the plight of roughly 800,000 federal employees who are furloughed or working without pay. What is their fault, why should they suffer for Trump’s false promise (Mexico will pay) to his supporters?




> And the house approved a budget with 5 billion for the border wall, which means the shutdown is only Schumer's fault.
> 
> Schumer thought he was acting tough and baiting Trump, but he was only cornering himself. At the best he just looked like Nancy's minion, at the worst he embarrassed himself on National television. And now he is responsible for shutting down the gov.


My friend, Trump has put himself in a ditch, Democrats are not going to pull him out of it. At present there is no incentive for them to compromise, Nancy Pelosi has become the Speaker of the House and as she has promised the first thing she is going to do is to send a funding bill, minus 5 billion for the wall, to the Republican-controlled Senate, in other words the ball is going to be in Republican and Trump’s hand.

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## RabzonKhan

*Cartoons of the week





*

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## Nilgiri

_I think I skipped a couple pages but I'm not sure _






@Desert Fox @OsmanAli98 @VCheng

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## RabzonKhan

*Here are 5 industries feeling the squeeze from the government shutdown*

Marilyn Haigh *CNBC*

*KEY POINTS
*


*

An estimated 450,000 federal employees are working without pay through the partial government shutdown, but even those who don’t get a federal paycheck have been affected.

As funding for some operations run out, more agencies are closing as a result of the standoff between Democrats and President Donald Trump over funding for a proposed border wall.
*
Hundreds of thousands of federal employees are working without pay through the partial government shutdown, but even people who don’t get a federal paycheck are feeling the squeeze.

Industries, consumers and business owners around the country are feeling the impact from losing government services — all as a result of the standoff between Democrats and President Donald Trump over funding for a southern border wall.


A report from Democrats on the Senate Appropriations Committee, which was released ahead of the partial shutdown, said 9 out of 15 federal departments and “dozens” of U.S. agencies would close. As funding runs out, more agencies are closing. The shutdown is in its 14th day.

Here are five industries that are being affected by the stalemate in Washington.

*Agriculture*

With some functions of the U.S. Department of Agriculture suspended, the fast-moving agriculture industry has gone without some data and services it relies on.

The USDA announced Friday that it would not release several key reports including the monthly World Agricultural Supply and Demand Estimates.

“Due to the government shutdown, farmers and ranchers have limited market information that can be used for these price discovery and risk management operations of their business,” Mace Thornton, spokesman for the American Farm Bureau Federation, said via email. “Farmers and ranchers rely on government reports from USDA as they manage their businesses on a day-to-day basis.”

Thornton said the closure of local Farm Service Agency offices has posed problems for farmers because they can’t apply for new loans or receive payments for relief from U.S.-China trade tensions.

*Telecom*

On Thursday, the Federal Communications Commission suspended “most operations” due to a lapse in funding, according to a public notice. While many systems remained online, consumer complaint services are unavailable until the shutdown ends.

In the notice, the FCC said it would suspend its “180-day time clock” for reviewing transactions including mergers, which includes the on-again, off-again Sprint-T-mobile deal currently under review.

FCC Chairman Ajit Pai canceled his trip to the Consumer Electronics Show, which starts Tuesday, because of the shutdown, a representative for the event said.

*Small businesses*

The Small Business Administration, an agency that gives entrepreneurs loans, stopped issuing new loan approvals on Dec. 21.

Tony Wilkinson, CEO of the National Association of Government Guaranteed Lenders, said the halt on loans slows economic growth and prevents small-business owners from expanding.

“The longer (the shutdown) goes, the harder it is for some of them,” he said. “It ends up costing jobs.”

The small benefit of the shutdown, he said, is its timing — the holiday period is usually the slowest time of year for NAGGL.

“I expect on Monday, we’ll start having our phones ring a lot as applicants are not able to get their loans approved,” he said.

*Tourism at parks and museums*

Some national parks have closed to visitors, while others have stayed open with minimal staffing and help from volunteers to contain overflowing trash bins and toilets.

Joshua Tree National Park in California closed Wednesday due to health and safety corners as toilets reached capacity, according to a National Park Service news release.

“I want to extend a sincere thanks to local businesses, volunteer groups, and tribal members who have done their best to assist in picking up litter and helping maintain campgrounds,” Joshua Tree’s superintendent, David Smith, said in the release.

The Smithsonian Institution said it kept its 19 museums and the National Zoo temporarily open during the partial shutdown by using “prior-year funds.” On Wednesday, however, the Smithsonian announced it would close.

In Philadelphia, the Liberty Bell Center and other historical sites have been closed since Dec. 22.

*Housing*

The suspension of many Department of Housing and Urban Development enforcement activities is hurting poor families, according to a report from NBC News.

Mandatory health and safety inspections for housing for low-income families, the elderly and people with disabilities has been suspended, according to the department’s contingency plan. Officials told NBC News they don’t know how long rental assistance payments will continue.

About 95 percent of the department’s 7,500 employees were furloughed without pay. Some employees are exempt to provide emergency services and housing for the homeless and people with AIDS and pay out grant and disaster recovery funds, according to the contingency plan.

=====================================================


Meanwhile, as promised, the Democrat led House passed bills to reopen government without wall money. The stopgap spending bill for the Department of Homeland Security that did not allocate any new wall funding, the bill passed 239 –192, with five Republicans joining Democrats.

Now, the ball is in Trump and Republicans court.

More bad news for Trump, Republican Senators Susan Collins and Cory Gardner broke with fellow Republicans by calling on Trump to sign a spending bill and end the ongoing shutdown without securing funding for border wall.

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## RabzonKhan

*Weird Trump*


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## RabzonKhan

In the latest poll, once again, majority of Americans blame Trump for the shutdown. Clearly, Americans are not buying Trump’s lies, lies and lies. *Source*

According to a Reuters/IPSOS poll, which ran from Jan. 1 to 7, found that 51% of adults believe Trump deserves most of the blame for the shutdown. That is up 4% from a similar poll that ran from December 21-25.

Another 32% blame Democrats for the shutdown and 7% blame Republicans, those percentages are mostly unchanged from the previous poll.

When you combine all the numbers together, almost 58% blame Trump and Republicans. The poll also found that 41% supports building additional border fencing and only 35% support a spending bill that includes funding for the wall.

But most importantly, only 25% support Trump’s decision to keep the government closed until Congress approves funding for the wall.

Republicans wake up and smell the coffee, Trump is taking your party into the gutter.

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## Desert Fox

Lol I have never seen a creepier duo on TV than Nancy and Chuck.

Gotta give it to the Dems, they sure know how to pull off a major creeper and talk down to the average American in a demeaning manner. No wonder they are adamant on importing millions of illegal third worlders who will do their bidding for a few 'gibs' here and there, because Dems know that the average American is waking up to their hypocrisy.






Trump delivered an amazing address to the American people, highlighting the recent murders and other violent crimes committed by illegals. Crimes that Democrat politicians like Nancy and Chuck can afford to ignore as they live in their wealthy, *majority White gated communities*, in the comfort of their four WALLS and a roof.

Meanwhile they expect the average American to welter in crime, joblessness and a drug epidemic.






@Nilgiri @Hamartia Antidote @LeGenD @Psychic @Metanoia @OsmanAli98

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## RabzonKhan

*Watch the president's immigration address? Here's a fact-check.*

*By Calvin Woodward and Colleen Long Associated Press*

In his prime-time speech to the nation, President Donald Trump wrongly accused Democrats of refusing to pay for border security and ignored the reality of how illicit drugs come into the country as he pitched his wall as a solution to trafficking.

A look at his Oval Office remarks Tuesday night:

*Drugs*
*
Trump:* "Our southern border is a pipeline for vast quantities of illegal drugs, including meth, heroin, cocaine and fentanyl. Every week, 300 of our citizens are killed by heroin alone, 90 percent of which floods across from our southern border."

*The Facts:* A wall can't do much about that when drug trafficking is concentrated at land ports of entry, not remote stretches of the border.

The Drug Enforcement Administration says "only a small percentage" of heroin seized by U.S. authorities comes across on territory between ports of entry. The same is true of drugs generally.

In a 2018 report, the agency said the most common trafficking technique by transnational criminal organizations is to hide drugs in passenger vehicles or tractor-trailers as they drive into the U.S. though entry ports, where they are stopped and subject to inspection. They also employ buses, cargo trains and tunnels, the report says, citing other smuggling methods that also would not be choked off by a border wall.

Trump recently denied that traffickers use entry ports at the southern border, contradicting the evidence and assertions of his drug enforcement personnel.

Trump stretched credulity even more by comparing the wall money he wants from Congress to the cost of the entire drug problem in the U.S.: "The border wall would very quickly pay for itself. The cost of illegal drugs exceeds $500 billion a year, vastly more than the $5.7 billion we have requested from Congress."

*Wall money*
*
Trump:* "Democrats will not fund border security."

*The facts:* That's not true. They just won't fund it the way he wants. They have refused his demand for $5.7 billion to build part of a steel wall across the U.S.-Mexico border

Democrats passed legislation the day they took control of the House that offered $1.3 billion for border security, including physical barriers and technology along the U.S. southern border.

Senate Democrats have approved similar funding year after year.

Democrats have also supported broader fence-building as part of deals that also had a path to legal status for millions of immigrants living in the country illegally.

In 2013, Senate Democrats voted for a failed immigration bill that provided roughly $46 billion for a number of border security measures — including new fencing — but that legislation would have created a pathway to citizenship for some of the estimated 11 million immigrants living in the U.S. illegally.

The 2013 Border Security, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Modernization Act had money to double the number of miles of fencing, to 700 miles, as well as for more border patrol agents. It also had a mandatory employment verification system to ensure all U.S. employees are authorized to work in the country. In exchange, however, the bill allowed immigrants living in the country illegally to apply for a provisional legal status if they paid a $500 fine and had no felony convictions.

As well many Democrats voted for the Secure Fence Act of 2006, which has resulted in the construction of about 650 miles of border barrier. But that legislation didn't authorize the kind of wall Trump has long been advocating since he launched his campaign.

*Violence*
*
Trump:* "Over the years thousands of Americans have been brutally killed by those who illegally entered our country and thousands more lives will be lost if we don't act right now."

*The facts:* His statement that people in the country illegally are a special menace to public safety is at odds with plentiful research.

Multiple studies from social scientists and the libertarian think tank Cato Institute have found that people here illegally are less likely to commit crime than U.S. citizens, and legal immigrants are even less likely to do so.

A March study by the journal Criminology found "undocumented immigration does not increase violence."

The study, which looked at the years 1990 through 2014, said states with bigger shares of such people have lower crime rates.

As well, a study in 2017 by Robert Adelman, a sociology professor at University of Buffalo, analyzed 40 years of crime data in 200 metropolitan areas and found that immigrants helped lower crime. New York City, for example, has the nation's largest population of immigrants living in the country illegally — about 500,000 — and last year had only 289 murders among a total population of 8.5 million people, according to preliminary data. Those numbers mean a person's odds of becoming a victim of a homicide in tightly packed, diverse New York City were about the same as they were in Wyoming, Montana and South Dakota.

Those numbers mean a person's odds of becoming a victim of homicide in tightly packed, diverse New York City were about the same as they were last year in Montana.

And Ruben Rumbaut, a University of California, Irvine sociology professor, co-authored a recent study that noted crime rates fell sharply from 1990 to 2015 at a time when illegal immigration spiked.

*Is it a 'crisis'?*

*Trump:* "Tonight I am speaking to you because there is a growing humanitarian and security crisis at our southern border."

*The facts:* Few would argue that a humanitarian crisis is unfolding, as the demand for entry by migrants and the Trump administration's hardline response to them are overwhelming border resources, further backlogging the asylum system and forcing migrants to live in abysmal conditions on the Mexican side of the border. Two sick children recently died in the administration's custody after making the journey to the U.S.

The debate is much sharper over whether a national security crisis exists at the border. Whether he is right or wrong, Trump has exaggerated the problem by repeatedly promoting the discredited notion that terrorism suspects are pouring into the U.S. from Mexico by the thousands.

While the number of families coming over the border has risen sharply, the number of border arrests — the leading gauge of how many people are trying to cross illegally — is actually one-quarter of what it was in 2000, dropping from 1.6 million then to 400,000 in 2018. Also noteworthy: The contingent of active-duty U.S. troops at the border has been more than halved, dropping from a peak in the fall of about 5,900 to about 2,350 last week.

*That new trade deal*

*Trump:* "The wall will also be paid for indirectly by the great new trade deal we have made with Mexico."

*The facts:* Mexico is not paying for the wall despite what Trump promised during the 2016 campaign, and nothing in the trade agreement would cover or refund the construction cost.

Trump is assuming a wide variety of economic benefits will come from the agreement, but they can't be quantified or counted on. For example, he has said the deal will dissuade some U.S. companies from moving operations to Mexico and he credits that possibility as a payment by Mexico for his wall.

The deal updates the North American Free Trade Agreement, in the main preserving NAFTA's liberalized environment of low or no tariffs among the U.S., Mexico and Canada, while making certain improvements for each country. Trump stated inaccurately that it's "brand new. It's totally different."

Moreover, it's not in effect. The deal has yet to be ratified in any member country and its chances of winning legislative approval are not assured.

*Do walls work? *
*
Trump:* "This barrier is absolutely critical to border security."

*The facts:* The evidence is inconclusive as to whether walls are "absolutely critical" or actually work in deterring illegal crossings.

Congress' main watchdog reported in 2017 that the government does not have a way to measure how well barriers work to deter immigrants crossing illegally from Mexico. Despite $2.3 billion spent by the government on such construction from 2007 to 2015, the Government Accountability Office found that authorities "cannot measure the contribution of fencing to border security operations along the southwest border because it has not developed metrics for this assessment."

Few people dispute that fences contributed to a sharp drop in crossings in cities like San Diego and El Paso, Texas, where people can easily blend in once they enter the country. Before fences were built in San Diego, crossers played soccer on U.S. soil as vendors hawked tamales, waiting until night fell to overwhelm agents. However, those barriers also pushed people into more remote and less-patrolled areas like in Arizona, where thousands of migrants have perished in extreme heat.

When barriers were built in the Border Patrol's Yuma, Arizona, sector in the mid-2000s, arrests for illegal crossings plummeted 94 percent in three years to 8,363 from 138,438. When barriers were built in San Diego in the 1990s and early 2000s, arrests fell 80 percent over seven years from 524,231 in 1995 to 100,681 in 2002. But both areas also saw sharp increases in Border Patrol staffing during that time, making it difficult to pinpoint why illegal crossings fell so dramatically.

*Immigrant costs v. benefits*

*Trump:* "America proudly welcomes millions of lawful immigrants who enrich our society and contribute to our nation but all Americans are hurt by uncontrolled illegal migration. It strains public resources and drives down jobs and wages."

*The facts:* The U.S. is not experiencing "uncontrolled" illegal immigration. The debate is over whether the controls are strong enough.

As for the costs, a major academic study in 2016 by the National Academy of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine found the job impacts of immigration, when measured over at least 10 years, are very small. It found immigration — legal and illegal — is an overall benefit to long-term economic growth.

Some evidence suggests that skilled immigrants boost wages. Native-born Americans without a high-school degree are most likely to suffer.

The academy study said estimating fiscal impacts of immigration is complex. Young and old immigrants tend to drain government resources while working-age immigrants contribute.

_Associated Press writers Jill Colvin and Hope Yen in Washington, Amanda Seitz in Chicago, Barbara Whitaker in New York and Elliot Spagat in San Diego contributed to this report._


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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> Lol I have never seen a creepier duo on TV than Nancy and Chuck.
> 
> Gotta give it to the Dems, they sure know how to pull off a major creeper and talk down to the average American in a demeaning manner. No wonder they are adamant on importing millions of illegal third worlders who will do their bidding for a few 'gibs' here and there, because Dems know that the average American is waking up to their hypocrisy.
> 
> View attachment 531740​
> 
> 
> Trump delivered an amazing address to the American people, highlighting the recent murders and other violent crimes committed by illegals. Crimes that Democrat politicians like Nancy and Chuck can afford to ignore as they live in their wealthy, *majority White gated communities*, in the comfort of their four WALLS and a roof.
> 
> Meanwhile they expect the average American to welter in crime, joblessness and a drug epidemic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Nilgiri @Hamartia Antidote @LeGenD @Psychic @Metanoia @OsmanAli98



The funniest part is they released it just a cpl minutes after the Trump border speech. They had it pre-recorded and pre-scripted and openly brazenly admitted to it by doing so (that they didn't even want to actually watch and digest what Trump said). They have basically admitted that Trump is correct all along about their attitude, nothing he says can convince them away from their position, no matter the merit of the issue....simply because he is Trump.

I mean at least give a good 15 minute or so delay to make it look like you watched what you are supposed to be responding to lol. What a bunch of idiots these dems are.

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> The funniest part is they released it just a cpl minutes after the Trump border speech. They had it pre-recorded and pre-scripted and openly brazenly admitted to it by doing so (that they didn't even want to actually watch and digest what Trump said). They have basically admitted that Trump is correct all along about their attitude, nothing he says can convince them away from their position, no matter the merit of the issue....simply because he is Trump.
> 
> I mean at least give a good 15 minute or so delay to make it look like you watched what you are supposed to be responding to lol. What a bunch of idiots these dems are.



This is only the beginning. It is going to be a long and tedious two years.

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## Nilgiri



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## RabzonKhan

A new poll by CBS news/YOUGOV conducted Jan 9 –11, 2019, once again shows the American people are not buying Trump’s lies and exaggerations.

Among all Americans, the president does draw relatively more of the blame for the shutdown in the first place: 47 percent blame the president and 30 percent blame the Democrats. Twenty percent blame the two, along with congressional Republicans, all equally. Independents are more apt to blame the president:






Two-thirds of Americans -- 67 percent -- oppose the idea of President Trump declaring a national emergency to pay for a wall if Congress doesn't fund one:






Republicans echo the president's language and describe what's happening on the border as a crisis. Democrats – and Americans overall – describe it as a problem, but not a crisis:





*Source*

==================================

*Cartoons Of The Week




*

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## Nilgiri

*The Silly Arguments Against a Border Wall*

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-silly-arguments-against-a-border-wall-11547165119

This week saw the culmination of the great wall debate. President Trump made his case—one I generally agree with—and explained what an extra $5.7 billion (approximately 0.1% of the budget) would do for the security of our southern border. Democratic leaders Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi immediately dismissed it. It is honestly surprising how quickly and thoroughly Democrats adopted the notion that a wall of any kind is such an obviously stupid and immoral idea. Well, is it? Let’s lay out the claims one by one: 


• They’ll just climb over it, dig under it or break through it. Just like that huh? I spent 10 years as a Navy SEAL, and people often say, “Dan, you know better than anyone how ineffective a wall is.” Actually, I know how effective walls are, even against skilled SEALs. Planning to scale a 30-foot steel slatted barrier is a daunting challenge. Do you bring an enormous ladder all the way there? How do you get down from the top? Jump? Rappel? This isn’t a Tough Mudder course. A few skilled and well-equipped people may figure it out, but the reality is that most will be deterred.

The same goes for “digging” or “breaking.” Tunneling would require special equipment and hundreds of hours to dig under the barrier, the base of which would penetrate many feet underground. To break through it, you’d need specialized circular saws, torches or explosives. Typical equipment for a special-ops team, but not exactly on the packing list for a migrant. And Border Patrol agents would easily detect such a ruckus.

This isn’t to argue that a wall is completely impenetrable given the right equipment, but to state the obvious: A barrier is far preferable to an open space, where migrants can simply walk across.

• They’ll just go around it. Exactly—that’s the point. A deterrent at the busiest sections of the border would allow more effective allocation of manpower. If a mile of the border is walled off, that’s one less mile the Border Patrol needs to worry about. Agents can still respond to the location if a special-ops caravan shows up with a blowtorch, but otherwise they can focus on open areas where it is simply not viable to build a barrier.

• You can’t put a wall on the Rio Grande. Fair enough—there are places where a physical barrier can’t work, such as private land along the river in Texas. You can’t build a wall everywhere—but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t build one anywhere. 

This whole debate is a classic case of one side attacking the other’s worst arguments instead of seriously addressing the actual proposal. Democrats need to stop assuming we are talking about a contiguous 2,000-mile wall. Republicans know that’s not practical. The budget’s small allocation of $5.7 billion that President Trump has requested would build 234 miles of wall. It’s a start. 

We know that border security is a multifaceted problem, that security at unwalled segments can be enhanced by drones, sensors and additional patrols, and that the Rio Grande requires a different approach. Let’s start looking for a multifaceted solution instead of automatically dismissing the critical role that physical barriers play.

Do Democrats agree that it’s a problem when hundreds of thousands of people illegally cross our border each year or not? If we all still agree on the sanctity of our country’s borders and rule of law—and I have faith that most of us do—then we should be looking for solutions. My fear is that Democrats have staked out a position so extreme that any common-sense compromise involving a physical barrier will constitute a serious political loss for them. It doesn’t have to. The president’s proposal—a mix of physical barriers, technology and more Border Patrol agents—is one that benefits everyone. 

Mr. Crenshaw, a Republican, represents Texas’ Second Congressional District. 

@VCheng @Desert Fox @Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL @jhungary

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> This week saw the culmination of the great wall debate. President Trump made his case—one I generally agree with—and explained what an extra $5.7 billion (approximately 0.1% of the budget) would do for the security of our southern border. Democratic leaders Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi immediately dismissed it. It is honestly surprising how quickly and thoroughly Democrats adopted the notion that a wall of any kind is such an obviously stupid and immoral idea.



How do you think the present stalemate will end in DC?

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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> How do you think the present stalemate will end in DC?



Honestly no idea on the specifics. I don't see Trump backing down on this. Its literally a small pittance of an amount hes asking for....even some dem celebs/hosts like Cher and trevor noah are like...just give him the darn money and get the govt open again (coz they do love their big govt).

Longer this goes, the longer more US people see...hey govt shutdowns are kinda fine lol....and get even more desensitized to it. So I see this only with dems working wall/barrier (call it whatever they want) into the spending bill. Otherwise Trump is gonna go the national emergency route...and dems simply lose a bargaining chip (given the opponent just bypasses them) and pretty much squander their control of the house... which is interesting stuff for 2020 (given the whole higher level idea of many voters voting for the dems in swingey areas...was to give them some balance/bargaining power with Trump...but not to squander it).

I have a gut feeling Trump's giving them a bit more time till the SOTU comes up....which they are forced to attend and listen to him....and he might just announce something to their faces (just to show the american people their reaction...live) during it heh.

A high level Trump 2020 campaign aide recently hinted that a good number of swing/suburb voters in the rust belt (And swing states more generally)... as much as they may be disliking Trump on various other things, are pretty strong in their support for the wall and for Trump not to back down on it. TIFWIW of course.

LOL:

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Honestly no idea on the specifics. I don't see Trump backing down on this. Its literally a small pittance of an amount hes asking for....even some dem celebs/hosts like Cher and trevor noah are like...just give him the darn money and get the govt open again (coz they do love their big govt).
> 
> Longer this goes, the longer more US people see...hey govt shutdowns are kinda fine lol....and get even more desensitized to it. So I see this only with dems working wall/barrier (call it whatever they want) into the spending bill. Otherwise Trump is gonna go the national emergency route...and dems simply lose a bargaining chip (given the opponent just bypasses them) and pretty much squander their control of the house... which is interesting stuff for 2020 (given the whole higher level idea of many voters voting for the dems in swingey areas...was to give them some balance/bargaining power with Trump...but not to squander it).
> 
> I have a gut feeling Trump's giving them a bit more time till the SOTU comes up....which they are forced to attend and listen to him....and he might just announce something to their faces (just to show the american people their reaction...live) during it heh.
> 
> A high level Trump 2020 campaign aide recently hinted that a good number of swing/suburb voters in the rust belt (And swing states more generally)... as much as they may be disliking Trump on various other things, are pretty strong in their support for the wall and for Trump not to back down on it. TIFWIW of course.
> 
> LOL:



Mueller's report to come out soon may suddenly change everything.


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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> Mueller's report to come out soon may suddenly change everything.



Anything of game changing importance (i.e an actual crime) would have "leaked" a long time ago 

It, like all else, will just be added to the pile of political gamesmanship/bickering in the end. The "undecideds/neutrals" are very rare set of ppl...everything is basically on turnout/satisfying the base now in the end.


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Anything of game changing importance (i.e an actual crime) would have "leaked" a long time ago
> 
> It, like all else, will just be added to the pile of political gamesmanship/bickering in the end. The "undecideds/neutrals" are very rare set of ppl...everything is basically on turnout/satisfying the base now in the end.



You are probably correct in that endless bickering will last until the next elections.

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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> You are probably correct in that endless bickering will last until the next elections.



Nah far beyond that...certain nasty stuff has been set into motion for a much longer timeframe (because its populist + people sourced in the end)...after building up a long time.

Political correctness may have acted as temporary lubricant under bush 2 and obama...but now gears are starting to grind and mash. A lesser country would have ruptured in some big way quite some time back....its a real testament to the resilience + design of the American system in the end. I stand in awe, always.

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Nah far beyond that...certain nasty stuff has been set into motion for a much longer timeframe (because its populist + people sourced in the end)...after building up a long time.
> 
> Political correctness may have acted as temporary lubricant under bush 2 and obama...but now gears are starting to grind and mash. A lesser country would have ruptured in some big way quite some time back....its a real testament to the resilience + design of the American system in the end. I stand in awe, always.



I have always said it openly that USA will come through its present turmoil stronger than ever as a testament to the system of checks and balances in place.

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## nahtanbob

VCheng said:


> How do you think the present stalemate will end in DC?



Democrats should give him the wall in return for something else


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## VCheng

nahtanbob said:


> Democrats should give him the wall in return for something else



I am sure they can work out a deal; that is the way politics is done.


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## RabzonKhan

*The warnings are getting starker: Trump's government shutdown is becoming catastrophic for the economy
*
Callum Burroughs and Bob Bryan


The US government shutdown is now the longest in the country's history and has shown no signs of abating.
JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon has suggested that US economic growth could go to zero, and one analyst said it could even go negative.
The US-China trade war and a looming conflict about the debt ceiling are creating a perfect storm.

We're 26 days into the record-breaking US government shutdown, and while most economists agree it will weigh on US economic growth, the chorus of warnings about doomsday scenarios is getting louder.

Government shutdowns have typically lasted a few days or a couple of weeks, but the fight between President Donald Trump and Democrats appears set to continue for much longer. According to economists, the negative effects of the shutdown will only grow as the ripple effects from the 800,000 federal employees and millions of government contractors going without pay spread throughout the economy.

*Adding to the gloom is the negative effect of the US-China trade war, falling stock prices, growing worries about a slowdown in international growth, and a looming conflict about the debt ceiling.*

Given all of the worries facing the US economy, warnings about the shutdown are only amplifying:


Bank of America Merrill Lynch on Wednesday reiterated its concern about the economic cost of the shutdown. It "definitely becomes a significant shock if it lasts for months rather than weeks," Ethan Harris, the head of global economics research, told the Financial Times. "There is a sensitivity in the markets to signs of dysfunction in Washington."
Standard & Poor's said the cost of the shutdown could soon equal Trump's demand for $5.7 billion to build a wall along the US-Mexico border.
The White House even increased its internal estimate of the hit to gross domestic product. A White House official confirmed to Business Insider that the Trump administration's model estimated that the shutdown would shave off 0.13 percentage points from GDP for every week of the shutdown — higher than the 0.08 percentage points originally assumed.
JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon said Tuesday that the shutdown was a serious problem for the US economy and cited research that found US GDP growth could go to zero if the shutdown continued.
Pantheon Macroeconomics' Ian Shepherdson was even more bearish, warning that if the shutdown were to last through March, the US's first-quarter GDP growth could be negative.
BAML's figures actually suggest that for each week the government is shut down, US GDP growth is cut by 0.05 percentage points. This is half the economic impact of the 2013 shutdown because this one affects only part of the government. But the economists warned that the pain could get exponentially worse as the fight continues.
Another major concern is the possibility that the shutdown will affect the US's credit rating. During the 2013 shutdown fight over the debt ceiling, the US was downgraded to AA+ by S&P, a historic first for the country. While Fitch maintained the US's AAA rating in 2013, James McCormack, the agency's global head of sovereign ratings, warned that a downgrade was possible in 2019.
*"The longer this shutdown drags on, the more collateral damage the economy will suffer," analysts at S&P said last week.*

There are a variety of reasons for the shutdown slowdown. For instance, figures from 2013 suggest that federal workers spent 10% to 15% less while they went unpaid, reducing consumer spending.

The shutdown also exacerbates worried about potentially more economically damaging fights in Congress, the most pressing of which is the need to raise the debt ceiling in the coming months.

As it stands, the debt ceiling, or the statutory limit on the amount of debt the federal government can hold, kicks back in on March 1. While the US Treasury can maintain funding through special measures, the ceiling will still need to be lifted by Congress sometime over the summer.

*Some analysts have said the historic dysfunction over the shutdown sets a nasty precedent for a debt-ceiling fight. Without an increase in the ceiling, the US could default on some of its debt, an unprecedented move that would send shockwaves throughout the global economy.*

"Normally, the debt ceiling ends up being lifted, but with deadlock in Congress" there's added risk, said Neil MacKinnon, a global macro strategist at VTB Capital. *Source*


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## RabzonKhan

*The 2020 marathon has started with a sprint

Analysis by Chris Cillizza and Harry Enten, CNN*
*January 17, 2019*

(CNN)There's been lots (and lots) of action in the 2020 Democratic primary race over the past month, but few actual changes.

A handful of candidates have either announced exploratory committees (Elizabeth Warren, Kirsten Gillibrand) or have outright announced that they are running (Julian Castro).

But aside from Warren (potentially), the candidates who comprise the top tier -- at least at this early stage of the race -- are still on the sidelines. Former Vice President Joe Biden seems to be moving toward a candidacy, but has given no indication of when he might make a decision. California Sen. Kamala Harris is an all-but-announced candidate but continues to play somewhat coy about when she will officially enter. Former Texas Rep. Beto O'Rourke is in soul-searching mode at the moment.

Those decisions -- we'd be surprised if any of the three _didn't_ run -- have the potential to shake up the race in a meaningful way. At the moment, however, the movement in the 2020 field is all in the second tier.

*Speaking of which, here's our latest look at the 10 men and women most likely to win the Democratic presidential nomination in 2020, ranked.*

*




*

*10. Julian Castro:* To the credit of the former San Antonio mayor, he didn't fiddle around much -- he just got in, announcing his candidacy last weekend. "I am not a frontrunner in this race, but I have not been a frontrunner at any time in my life," he said in making his candidacy official. The question now for Castro is how he stands out in the race -- especially if fellow Texan O'Rourke gets in. _(Previous ranking: 9)_

*9. Amy Klobuchar:* The pitch from the senior senator from Minnesota to voters will come down to electability and pragmatism. Klobuchar's wide 2018 reelection margin in a state Trump nearly won may sell with voters who desperately want to beat Trump. That, combined with a prosecutorial streak and a fairly moderate record (which may be rare among 2020 contenders), could give her a unique lane to the nomination. _(Previous ranking: 7)_

*8. Kirsten Gillibrand:* The New York Senator got into the race earlier this week -- casting herself as a leading voice for women in national politics. In the announcement of her exploratory committee, Gillibrand put her young family front and center -- and noted that she was running to fight for them. Speaking of fighting, her pledge that she is not afraid of Trump could win her some support among Democrats looking for a scrapper. The problem? She has a long voting record in the House that is considerably more conservative than her Senate votes. (She's already trying to clean up that record; she told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow Wednesday night that her past positions on guns and immigration were wrong.) _(Previous ranking: 10)_

*7. Bernie Sanders:* The 2016 runner-up continues to place a (distant) second in 2020 primary polls behind Biden. That, along with the growing liberalness of the Democratic base, is enough for him to still be a contender. Make no mistake though: his stock has fallen. Despite universal name recognition, he cannot break out of the teens in primary polling. There will also be candidates like O'Rourke who can eat into Sanders' base of young voters. And the last few months have been especially harsh for the Vermont senator. For example, he had to apologize to women who were "harassed or mistreated" during his 2016 campaign by male campaign workers. _(Previous ranking: 6)_

*6. Sherrod Brown:* If you're looking for a credible dark horse, the Ohio senator is it. Now Brown isn't in the race yet, but his announcement this week that he is embarking on an early state listening tour suggests he is likely to be a candidate. Brown has a proven record of winning votes in a swing state in the Midwest, a long record of liberal advocacy and an authentic populist streak. But can he raise the money to compete with the big girls and boys?_ (Previous ranking: 8)_

*5. Cory Booker:* Iowa and New Hampshire will play a big role in the 2020 nomination process. That's good news for the junior senator from New Jersey, who's been working his butt off to build relationships in the two early states. Booker, like others in the field, can point to a progressive Senate record. He's also one of only two black candidates in the field. (Black voters make up around 20% of the Democratic primary electorate.) Booker has two obvious potential flaws. First, many Sanders supporters regard him as a "neoliberal" for his ties to Wall Street. Second, Booker can be very energetic, but sometimes that may come across as insincere. You may recall his "Spartacus moment." (Previous ranking: 4)

*4. Elizabeth Warren:* After a very rocky run-up to her announcement, the Massachusetts senator had a nice rollout of her exploratory committee -- which she announced somewhat surprisingly on December 31. While Warren flubbed her attempt to put questions of her Native American heritage behind her, she remains a potent figure in the party. She's a liberal's liberal with anti-corporatist cred and an ability to raise tens of millions of dollars. (Previous ranking: 5)

*3. Joe Biden:* The case for the former vice president is what it's always been: he holds a clear lead in primary polls; his favorable ratings with Democrats are through the roof; he holds a 
 lead in early polls against Trump (which bolsters an electability argument); and he was second in command to the very popular President Barack Obama. Additionally, it now seems like Biden wants to run, which obviously increases his chance of winning. But Biden's problems are clear too. He's an old white moderate man in a young diversifying party keen on electing progressives and women. (Previous ranking: 3)

*2. Beto O'Rourke:* The former Texas congressman is the buzziest potential candidate in the field -- by a lot. He's being touted by many as the closest thing to Obama since, well, Obama. And while O'Rourke hasn't made his intentions clear, his solo road trip seems like the sort of thing someone who wants to run for president would do. While O'Rourke still has some time to fix this problem, his fuzziness on issues could come back to bite him if he doesn't get up to speed -- and quickly. (Previous ranking: 2)

*1. Kamala Harris:* When you're trying to think of who will win the nomination, you have a look at a checklist of attributes that play well within today's Democratic Party. The junior senator from California pretty much checks all of them. Progressive? Check. Woman? Check. Black? Check. Can take it to Trump? She's the former attorney general of California. Still, Harris is well back in the early polls, which keeps us from going all in on her. (Previous ranking: 1)



=====================================

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## RabzonKhan

As Trump’s disastrous shutdown continues, a new poll by NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist shows that only 30% registered voters will vote for him in 2020. Almost 25% of his supporters aren’t committed to voting for him and among independents, who he won in 2016, 62% plan to vote against him. 

*Recession warnings pile up as shutdown wraps up fourth week*

*The impasse is triggering alarms about an already fragile economic environment.*

By BEN WHITE 01/17/2019 

*The partial government shutdown was supposed to be a brief non-event for the economy. Now it’s starting to look like a serious crisis that could nudge the U.S. toward recession and threaten President Donald Trump's economic message during his reelection campaign.*

*Across Wall Street, analysts are rushing out warnings that missed federal paychecks, dormant government contractors and shelved corporate stock offerings could push first-quarter growth close to or even below zero if the shutdown, which is wrapping up its fourth week, drags on much longer.*

Their broader fear: The protracted impasse could convince consumers and businesses that the federal government will spend all of 2019 on the brink of crisis — whether on the border wall, trade with China or the debt limit. That could choke business investment and consumer spending, bringing an end to one of the longest economic expansions on record.

Recessions don’t just happen, after all. They are usually triggered by largely unforeseen shocks to the system, like the tech over-investment and dot-com crash of the late 1990s or the credit crisis of 2008. The government shutdown is not there yet. But the longer it drags on, the closer it gets.

“You can take the ruler out right now and calculate the exact impact from missed paychecks and contracts and you don’t have to go many months to get to zero growth,” said Torsten Slok, chief international economist at Deutsche Bank. “But this is not just some linear event. It can get exponentially worse in very unpredictable ways, from government workers quitting, to strikes, to companies not going public. It’s no longer just a political sideshow, it’s a real recession risk.”

*Part of the reason for the increased alarm is that economists and Wall Street forecasters were already worried about the direction of the economy in 2019 as stimulus from the big tax-cut bill fades, growth slows outside the U.S. and Trump’s trade battles send shock waves through the stock market. Consensus estimates for growth this year were already down to under 3 percent before the shutdown.*

Now some are slashing their estimates even further. Ian Shepherdson of Pantheon Macroeconomics this week said if the shutdown lasts through March it could push first-quarter growth below zero, a sentiment echoed by J.P. Morgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon on the bank’s earnings call on Tuesday in which he implored Trump and Congress to make a deal.

*The White House itself, through the Council of Economic Advisers, said this week that the shutdown impact would be roughly double what it originally anticipated. That could push first-quarter growth below 2 percent.

That’s a number Trump, who promised sustained growth over 3 percent, will not like. And while the president and congressional Republicans are trying to blame Democrats’ intransigence on border wall funding, polls show voters overwhelmingly blame Trump and the GOP.*

*And incumbent presidents almost always take the blame if the economy goes sour on their watch.*

*“Herbert Hoover said, ‘The president takes the credit for the sunshine and blame for the rain,’ and he should know,’” said Allan Lichtman, a political historian at American University. “One of the keys that always counts against the sitting president or the party of the sitting is an election-year recession. And in fact no president or their party has ever been re-elected in the midst of an election-year recession.”*

The White House for the moment is counting on the shutdown only having a limited and short-term impact. If the government were to reopen soon — before another round of missed federal paychecks next week, for instance — then much of the lost growth could be restored. Trump on Wednesday signed legislation ensuring swift back pay for those who missed paychecks last week.

Some spending that would have happened without a shutdown will never come back. Credit damage to those who missed payments or took out high-interest loans to cover expenses will not be quickly repaired. But if it ends soon, the shutdown is not likely to be the kind of shock that pushes the U.S. toward the next recession.

The risk could rise significantly if the shutdown continues to drag on, directly impacting paychecks and spending and making businesses and consumers more concerned about the March 1 deadline to make a trade deal with China and a summer deadline to raise the nation’s borrowing limit.

In that sense, it would not be the shutdown alone that constitutes the shock to the system. Instead it would be the shutdown instilling in Americans a feeling that the government simply cannot function as currently constructed.

“One thing that we worry about is what is going to break consumer confidence, what is going to shake consumers and shake business confidence, what is going to make people worried enough that maybe they pull back a little bit,” Betsey Stevenson, a member of the Council of Economic Advisers under President Barack Obama now at the University of Michigan, said on the POLITICO Money podcastthis week. “And that’s why a lot of people are a bit worried that the government shutdown could have long-lasting negative effects if it goes on long enough that it shakes both consumer and business confidence.”

*The shutdown itself is limiting the amount of economic data available.

The Commerce Department on Wednesday, for instance, did not release a report on December retail sales due to the lapse in funding. A report on gross domestic product for 2018 scheduled to be released Jan. 30 will not come out if the shutdown is still in effect.*

*But data that are coming out are increasingly troubling. A private-sector reading on manufacturing activity in the New York region on Tuesday fell to its lowest level in over a year. That followed a reading on manufacturing nationally that fell in December to its lowest level since November 2016, suggesting the shutdown began as the economy was already losing some traction. A key reading on small-business owners’ confidence fell for a fourth straight month in December with respondents citing in part the fractured political climate.*

So far, Wall Street has mostly shrugged off both the shutdown and recession warnings, preferring to focus instead on still-solid corporate earnings and signals from the Federal Reserve that it could respond to economic weakness in 2019 by stopping its plans for future rate hikes.

People close to the president say he tends to gauge economic risks by market reaction, so the lack of any big drops on Wall Street could be among the reasons he does not yet feel significant pressure to change his wall demands in ways that could end the shutdown.

A significant shutdown-related selloff on Wall Street could be one of the few things that might shift Trump’s thinking, much as it did on trade with China — pushing the president toward seeking a deal rather than engaging in bruising rhetorical attacks.

In the meantime, visible evidence of shutdown impacts from trash-strewn national parks, to longer lines at airports due to unpaid TSA agents not showing up, have not moved the president.

Less visible impacts, like a shuttered Securities and Exchange Commission being unable to move on potential big IPOs like those planned for Uber and Lyft, are also not yet changing the political conversation. These delays — like those for small businesses unable to get necessary approvals from government agencies — likely won’t show up in economic data for several months. But they are already subtracting from growth.

And concern is growing that the consensus view — that the economy is basically fine despite the Washington sideshow — could wind up being wrong.

“Markets are hanging onto the view that the economic data are just fine, there’s just something going on with politics that’s got nothing to do with the economy,” said Slok.

“Now we have policy choices being made because of the gridlock in Washington and the shutdown and the trade war that are having real consequences,” he said. “That can no longer be ignored.” *Source*


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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> Recession warnings pile up as shutdown wraps up fourth week



A recession is overdue anyway. I reckon it will hit in the election run-up.


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## RabzonKhan

*Cartoons Of The Week




*













VCheng said:


> A recession is overdue anyway. I reckon it will hit in the election run-up.


I agree, most economists see the economy slowing down drastically this year and most probably recession in mid-2020, but the point is, the government should not recklessly be contributing to it.


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## Nilgiri

This was fun to write:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/why-...khalin-and-kurils.597230/page-2#post-11109874


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## Nilgiri

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/01/why_mueller_wont_produce_an_impeachment_report.html

Why Mueller Won't Produce an Impeachment Report

January 17, 2019
By Jim Daws

This past week offered some signs that Robert Mueller is finally winding down his cover-up operation with no findings of high crimes or misdemeanors against the president. Considering the damage the political hacks in Obama's law enforcement and intelligence agencies have inflicted on the nation, let's consider the reasons we can hope so and where this sorry saga goes from here.

Last Wednesday, Rod Rosenstein announced that as soon as newly appointed attorney general William Barr takes over the reins at DOJ, he will exit stage left. Knowing what we do about Rosenstein's defense of the Spygate conspirators, his willingness to wear a wire to record Trump, and his refusal to cooperate with investigating congressional committees, we can surmise that he's not anxious to explain his actions to the un-recused incoming A.G.


On Friday, the New York Times published a Deep State-sourced article that was headlined as a bombshell implication that Trump was a Russian agent but was really just a thinly veiled apologia for Comey & Company's illicit political surveillance. The report was widely scorned by conservative media as justifying the FBI's attempted coup because Trump was insufficiently committed to a new Cold War with Russia.

Then came Jonathan Karl's Sunday revelation on This Week with (Clinton flack) George Stephanopoulos in which Karl quoted sources "interacting with the special counsel" who caution that Mueller's report will be "anti-climatic." This can be interpreted as a leak that Mueller will stop short of attempting to frame Trump for collusion or obstruction.

It shouldn't be surprising that Mueller won't "produce" a report that the Democrats and NeverTrumps can use to impeach Trump. Determining whether Trump colluded or obstructed, which was always absurd on its face, was never the purpose of this special counsel. Mueller was brought in by Rosenstein to put the new administration on the defensive and prevent Trump from uncovering the depth and the breadth of the wrongdoing by the Obama administration and Hillary Clinton. In that effort, he has largely succeeded.


No one is investigating whether the DNC was in fact hacked or if its emails were leaked internally. The hundreds of millions collected by Clinton foundations from foreign interests while Hillary was secretary of state, and presumed 45th president, is just water under the bridge. Whether Joseph Mifsud, Henry Greenberg, Felix Sader, and others were working for CIA head John Brennan and interacted with the Trump campaign peddling Russia-related pretexts may never be known. These and a hundred other Spygate questions appear destined to go unanswered.

The last thing Mueller would want now is further scrutiny of this whole sordid affair that impeachment proceedings could bring. Those proceedings might actually steel the spines of establishment Republicans to defend their party's president and maybe even go on the offense.

As a side benefit to Mueller and his band of Democrat prosecutors, they have given the president's opponents plenty of conspiracy fodder to fling against him during his 2020 re-election bid. And with guilty pleas from associates to process crimes (pleas made to avoid financial ruin) and the indictments of shadowy Russians who will never be tried, Mueller has given the opposition media plenty of grist to continue accusing Trump of being an agent of the Kremlin.

The lasting harm Obama, Clinton, and the Deep State have done to our political discourse and this president's ability to deliver on his America First agenda is incalculable. Voters sent Trump to Washington to secure our borders, rebalance our disastrous trade agreements, keep us out of foreign wars, and improve relations with nuclear-armed Russia. While putting its own interests above the nation's, the swamp has done everything in its power to sabotage those efforts, and it appears that the swamp creatures may never be held to account.

While authors such as Stephen F. Cohen, Gregg Jarrett, and Dan Bongino have published well researched books arguing that we're living through the greatest political scandal of modern times, the final word on how future generations remember this affair will be produced by Hollywood. One can imagine that those movies will take on the breathtakingly dishonest narratives of CNN and MSNBC. It will be critical for conservative film producers to set the record straight. In this case, both the facts and the fiction are strange, indeed.

The author hosts Right Now with Jim Daws, a video podcast of news, politics, and culture from an American nationalist perspective. https://twitter.com/RightNowJimDaws

=====================================================================

https://thefederalist.com/2019/01/1...s-coordinated-with-fusion-gps-spouse-in-2016/

Top Mueller Officials Coordinated With Fusion GPS Spouse In 2016

thefederalist.com 

Mollie Hemingway 

A senior Department of Justice official says he repeatedly and specifically told top officials at the FBI and DOJ about dossier author Christopher Steele’s bias and his employer Fusion GPS’ conflicts of interest, information they kept hidden from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. These conversations involved high-level officials, including some who are now senior officials in the special counsel probe. And the conversations began taking place in the earliest days of August 2016, much earlier than previously revealed to congressional investigators seeking to learn the facts about the FBI’s decision to spy on the Trump campaign.

Testimony from Bruce Ohr, the demoted associate attorney general at Justice, informs a years-long partisan debate about the role he played in funneling information to the FBI from the terminated source.

Republicans on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, led by Rep. Devin Nunes, R-Calif., expressed concern in February 2018 about Ohr’s role in their memo warning about abuses of the process by which the federal government spied on Trump affiliates. They claimed the high-ranking Justice official was in contact with Steele after the foreign actor had supposedly been terminated with cause as the primary source of negative and outlandish information on Trump.

They also said Ohr, whose wife worked for the very same information operation that Steele did, had shared critical information about the source that did not appear in the applications to spy on Carter Page. Finally, they claimed that Ohr funneled to the FBI his wife’s opposition research, which had been secretly bought and paid for by the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton Campaign.

All of that is true. If anything, it understates what Ohr admitted to congressional investigators.

Meanwhile, Democrats on the committee, led by Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said the Republican majority overstated Ohr’s role. They claimed Steele’s conversations with the FBI “ occurred weeks after the election and more than a month after the Court approved the initial FlSA application.”

In fact, Ohr met with Steele on July 30, 2016, and initiated discussions with top officials within days, continuing to share information from and about the supposedly terminated source, not just through the election but well into the first year of the Trump administration.

Early Meetings With Top Officials Shortly before Ohr’s testimony in August, The New York Times took part in a bizarre effort to get investigators looking elsewhere. Reporters Michael Shear, Katie Benner, and Nicholas Fandos claimed that it was a “ conspiracy theory” to view him as having a role in the Trump dossier saga.

Ohr is an interesting character in the Russia-Trump collusion investigation because his role was unknown for a long time. The former top career official at the Department of Justice was a 27-year veteran with no role in counterintelligence operations. Initially, the FBI and Department of Justice claimed he had no involvement in the probe, despite his marriage to a Fusion GPS contractor. Then they claimed his role was unique and was unknown by others in the department.

It turns out that Ohr kept top officials at both the FBI and Department of Justice apprised of his conversations with Steele, passed along electronic and written materials from multiple Fusion GPS employees, and shared key information that was excluded from the FISA application to the courts.

According to Ohr’s testimony, just days after his July 30, 2016, meeting with Steele, he sought out top FBI officials. His first meeting involved none other than Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, who later lost his job for lying about some of his leaks to reporters. Shortly thereafter, Ohr met with top Justice Department officials, including two who now serve on the special counsel.

Mr. Gowdy. How did you find out who to meet with? Who did you call to find out.
Mr. Ohr. So, prior to that meeting, I had — okay. After the July 30th meeting with Chris Steele, I wanted to provide the information he had given me to the FBI. I reached out for Andrew McCabe, at that time, deputy director of the FBI and somebody who had previously led the organized crime, Russian organized crime squad in New York and who I had worked with in the past, and asked if he could meet with me.
I went to his office to provide the information, and Lisa Page was there. So I provided the information to them. And some point after that, I think, I was given Peter Strzok, or somehow put in contact with Peter Strzok.
Mr. Gowdy. And that would have been when?
Mr. Ohr. I don’t recall the exact date. I’m guessing it would have been in August since I met with Chris Steele at the end of July, and I’m pretty sure I would have reached out to Andrew McCabe soon afterwards.

Ohr also admitted he was talking to top DOJ officials about his chats with Steele and Fusion GPS’ Glenn Simpson. (For what it’s worth, Simpson testified under oath that he had not met with Ohr during the campaign but Ohr testified that the two did meet during the campaign.)

Mr. Gowdy. Who at the Department knew that you were talking to Chris Steele and Glenn Simpson?
Mr. Ohr. I spoke with some people in the Criminal Division, other career officials who dealt with some of these matters. So —
Mr. Gowdy. Any of them have names?
Mr. Ohr. Yes. So I was about to tell you. One of them was Bruce Swartz, who is the Counselor for International Affairs in the Criminal Division; a person who was working with him at the time, working on similar matters in the Criminal Division was Zainab Ahmad; and a third person who was working on some — some of the matters I believe was Andrew Weissman.

Bruce Swartz was deputy assistant attorney general in the criminal division. Andrew Weissmann was the head of the criminal division’s fraud section. A top official on the special counsel, Weissmann is known for destroying the 85,000-employee Arthur Anderson before the Supreme Court unanimously overturned the conviction he got. Zainab Ahmad also works for the special counsel. She previously worked for none other than Attorney General Loretta Lynch, as this glowing profile of her in The New Yorker details.

That Ohr was briefing one of Lynch’s top deputies, and heads of various divisions, counters the previous narrative that Justice officials were in the dark about Ohr’s work. That it took place in late summer refutes the claims he only got involved after the election. Ohr also testified that he met with Peter Strzok and others.

Revealing Bias In conversations with various members, Ohr claimed he repeatedly made it clear to the FBI that the information was not verified, risked bias, and had been obtained under political circumstances.

He said he was open about his relationship with Steele and Simpson and about the fact his wife was on Simpson’s payroll, working on the same project Steele was. Asked if they were aware of Steele’s bias against Donald Trump, Ohr said “I provided information to the FBI when I thought Christopher Steele was, as I said, desperate that Trump not be elected. So, yes, of course, I provided that to the FBI.” He said he told the bureau that Simpson was doing opposition research against Trump.

Rep. John Ratcliffe, R-Texas, asked specifically about what the FBI had been told before their first FISA application. He said, “So, again, so the record is clear, what the Department of Justice and the FBI was aware of prior to the first FISA application was your relationship with Christopher Steele and Glenn Simpson, your wife’s relationship with Christopher Steele and Glenn Simpson, Mr. Steele’s bias against Donald Trump, your wife’s compensation for work for Glenn Simpson and Fusion GPS, correct?”

Ohr conferred with his lawyer but said, “Right,” and went on to list the things he told the FBI, including “At some point, and I don’t remember exactly when, I don’t think it was the first conversation, I told them that Chris Steele was desperate that Donald Trump not get elected. So those are all the facts that I provided to the FBI.”

He went on in other lines of questioning, such as this one from Rep. Trey Gowdy, R-S.C.:

Mr. Ohr. So when I provided it to the FBI, I tried to be clear that this is source information. I don’t know how reliable it is. You’re going to have to check it out and be aware. These guys were hired by somebody relating to — who’s related to the Clinton campaign, and be aware —
Mr. Gowdy. Did you tell the bureau that?
Mr. Ohr. Oh, yes.
Mr. Gowdy. Why did you tell the bureau that?
Mr. Ohr. I wanted them to be aware of any possible bias or, you know, as they evaluate the information, they need to know the circumstances.
Mr. Gowdy. So you specifically told the bureau that the information you were passing on came from someone who was employed by the DNC, albeit in a somewhat triangulated way?
Mr. Ohr. I don’t believe I used — I didn’t know they were employees by the DNC, but I certainly said, yes, that — that they were working for — you know, they were somehow working associated with the Clinton campaign. And I also told the FBI that my wife worked for Fusion GPS or was a contractor for GPS, Fusion GPS.
Mr. Gowdy. And, again, you thought it was important to tell the bureau that for bias —
Mr. Ohr. Yes.
Mr. Gowdy. — motive, interest in the outcome, all of the reasons that you have to produce —
Mr. Ohr. Yes.
Mr. Gowdy. — not complimentary information?
Mr. Ohr. Yes.

This information did not make it into the FISA applications, which asserted on the basis of an unverified dossier that Page was an agent of Russia. Carter Page, whom the U.S. government spied on for at least a year, has not been charged with any crime.

Mollie Ziegler Hemingway is a senior editor at The Federalist.


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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> I agree, most economists see the economy slowing down drastically this year and most probably recession in mid-2020, but the point is, the government should not recklessly be contributing to it.



The government itself is not reckless; it is only the orangutan in the Oval Office.


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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> The government itself is not reckless; it is only the orangutan in the Oval Office.



Was there a simian before this orangutan or that one was ok?


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Was there a simian before this orangutan or that one was ok?



As I have said many times before, USA is what it is despite its Presidents, not because of them.

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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1086395559504764930
Meanwhile, Democrats are proposing over $ 1 billion to border security by adding additional infrastructure at port of entry, hiring more border security personnel, immigration judges, sensors and other technology, but no funds for the nasty boy’s wall.



VCheng said:


> The government itself is not reckless; it is only the orangutan in the Oval Office.


Be careful buddy, you know he doesn’t like to be called orangutan, you know the genius sued Bill Maher for calling him son of an orangutan, imagine that, who could have thought at that time (2013) that this idiot will become president of this great country, SAD.


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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> Be careful buddy, you know he doesn’t like to be called orangutan, you know the genius sued Bill Maher for calling him son of an orangutan, imagine that, who could have thought at that time (2013) that this idiot will become president of this great country, SAD.



As a fellow American, I have right to my opinion. Is calling him orange-u-tan more acceptable?

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## RabzonKhan

VCheng said:


> As a fellow American, I have right to my opinion. Is calling him orange-u-tan more acceptable?


You just saved yourself from a Yuge suit.

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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> You just saved yourself from a Yuge suit.



The primate cannot spell correctly anyway.

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## RabzonKhan

*Live: Trump makes 'major announcement' on border and shutdown*





Here is a second link if the first does not work.

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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> As I have said many times before, USA is what it is despite its Presidents, not because of them.



So who would you say was the last effective president that did net good in his tenure?


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> So who would you say was the last effective president that did net good in his tenure?



It is not a matter of net good vs bad. US Presidents tend to be judged more by how the economy does under their watch more than anything else.

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## RabzonKhan

Kamala Harris announced that she is running for president in 2020. In a brief video posted on her Twitter account, she called her supporters to join with her to claim our future. “Justice. Decency. Equality. Freedom. Democracy. These aren’t just words. They are the values we as Americans cherish. And they are all on the line now.” She has an interesting background, her mother was from Tamil Nadu, India and her father from Jamaica.

She is the fourth woman to announce presidential bid, Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren, Sen. Kristen Gillibrand and Rep. Tulsi Gabbard are already in the race. Interesting times ahead.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1087327713277460481


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## Nilgiri

That incident you brought up regarding 1st amendment @Cookie Monster has much more behind it than the media initially projected/extrapolated, this is why I cannot trust it anymore (at least not in the short time frame before the context/facts is actually made available):






This is how its being walked back by the more international media (as bad as they covered it too):

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46943364

I don't really bother to check with US media anymore on it.....buzzfeed sticking to its guns after the mueller team fact checked them pretty badly is just the most recent thing in a long line of the attitude I was talking about with @Joe Shearer @VCheng @KAL-EL @Hamartia Antidote and others.


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> That incident you brought up regarding 1st amendment @Cookie Monster has much more behind it than the media initially projected/extrapolated, this is why I cannot trust it anymore (at least not in the short time frame before the context/facts is actually made available):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is how its being walked back by the more international media (as bad as they covered it too):
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46943364
> 
> I don't really bother to check with US media anymore on it.....buzzfeed sticking to its guns after the mueller team fact checked them pretty badly is just the most recent thing in a long line of the attitude I was talking about with @Joe Shearer @VCheng @KAL-EL @Hamartia Antidote and others.



US media is truly horrible these days, serving agendas rather than the truth, no matter which type or inclination.

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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> US media is truly horrible these days, serving agendas rather than the truth, no matter which type or inclination.



Tbh tho, I have never seen fox go after and destroy a persons life over such non-contextualised clips (the content of which even by itself warrants nothing given these were kinda douchey teenagers in the first place, which teens arent?). Whatever happened to lets actually check the larger context, and give it a 24 hour (at the very minimum) cool down period before we run something like this? Looks like they just want to lead, damage (a few wrong-political side ppl) and then say ooops muh bad..."Walk it back" a tiny bit after the damage is done. They still seem so oblivious to how much damage this does to _them_ in the long term.

Rest of legacy media literally aired all the social media celeb voices that were calling for this and that action against the kid (and far far worse on their twitter accounts)....including a congressman saying he has a very punchable face....and of course walked it back as a "big joke that I didn't mean". What in the flying F is this.....and then they complain and wonder about how and why they got Trump?

Crowder (who I am glad is back) says it best ....this was a (one side initiated) war long before Trump got here (and gives good evidence on it), Trump is the result...not the symptom:

(you may not like some of the crass humour, but bear with it if you can for the larger message)






_First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you. Then you win._


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## RabzonKhan

Looks like Trump has met his match. 

*Pelosi tells Trump: No State of the Union address in the House until government is opened*

*Felicia Sonmez, Seung Min Kim 3 hrs ago*

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) will not allow President Trump to deliver the State of the Union in the House chamber next week, writing to him on Wednesday afternoon that he can give the annual speech at the Capitol once the government shutdown is over.

Pelosi said when she extended Trump the invitation earlier this month on Jan. 3, “there was no thought that the government would still be shut down.” The partial shutdown, triggered by a partisan standoff over Trump’s demand for a border wall, is now on its 33rd day.

“I am writing to inform you that the House of Representatives will not consider a concurrent resolution authorizing the President’s State of the Union address in the House Chamber until government has opened,” Pelosi wrote to Trump. “Again, I look forward to welcoming you to the House on a mutually agreeable date for this address when government has been opened.”

Pelosi’s letter came just a few hours after Trump had informed her that he planned to show up at the Capitol on Jan. 29 to deliver his annual speech to Congress. The sparring between the two leaders reflects the growing acrimony as the partial federal government is now the longest in history, with 800,000 federal workers forced to go without pay and states scrambling to mitigate the impact on the poorest Americans.

The House and Senate must pass a concurrent resolution for a joint session of Congress to hear the president.

Asked about Pelosi’s letter at a White House event Wednesday afternoon, Trump responded, “I’m not surprised.” *Read more*




Nilgiri said:


> Tbh tho, I have never seen fox go after and destroy a persons life over such non-contextualised clips (the content of which even by itself warrants nothing given these were kinda douchey teenagers in the first place, which teens arent?). Whatever happened to lets actually check the larger context, and give it a 24 hour (at the very minimum) cool down period before we run something like this? Looks like they just want to lead, damage (a few wrong-political side ppl) and then say ooops muh bad..."Walk it back" a tiny bit after the damage is done. They still seem so oblivious to how much damage this does to _them_ in the long term.
> 
> Rest of legacy media literally aired all the social media celeb voices that were calling for this and that action against the kid (and far far worse on their twitter accounts)....including a congressman saying he has a very punchable face....and of course walked it back as a "big joke that I didn't mean". What in the flying F is this.....and then they complain and wonder about how and why they got Trump?
> 
> Crowder (who I am glad is back) says it best ....this was a (one side initiated) war long before Trump got here (and gives good evidence on it), Trump is the result...not the symptom:
> 
> (you may not like some of the crass humour, but bear with it if you can for the larger message)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you. Then you win._


It was not only the liberals, but some on the right also jump to wrong conclusion after watching that misleading clip.

I found CNN’s coverage was quite balance, not only did they publish Nick Sandmann’s statement, but they also got Twitter account @2020fight suspended, the person who instigated the uproar against Nick Sandmann.


*How the video confrontation between Catholic students and a Native American elder blew up*
By Paul P. Murphy and Gianluca Mezzofiore, CNN
Updated 12:53 AM ET, Wed January 23, 2019

(CNN)The discussion over what happened between competing groups of people on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial on Friday doesn't appear to be going away anytime soon.

It all started that evening when someone posted an Instagram video of a tense encounter between a Native American elder and a group of Catholic high school students from Kentucky.
Twenty-four hours later, the video was everywhere: trending on social networks, splashed across news sites and airing on TV.
How did it spread so fast? Here's a closer look.

*What happened that day at the Lincoln Memorial*





After participating in the March for Life rally on Capitol Hill, a group of students from Covington Catholic High School in northern Kentucky were wrapping up their day in Washington with a sightseeing visit to the Lincoln Memorial. At the same time, a small group of Native Americans were holding an Indigenous People's March on the memorial's steps.

*Kaya Taitano posts the original video*
Taitano had attended the Indigenous People's March and shot video of the encounter, which appeared to show the students, some wearing Make America Great Again caps, mocking Omaha tribe elder Nathan Phillips. She uploaded the video to Instagram on Friday at 7:33 p.m. She also posted a longer version to her YouTube account.
The Instagram video drew more than 179,000 views.
*A Twitter user amplifies the encounter, adding commentary*





*Almost four hours later, at 11:13 p.m. Friday, the Twitter account @2020fight reposted Taitano's video.
"This MAGA loser gleefully bothering a Native American protestor at the Indigenous People's March," read the tweet accompanying the video.*

*The internet outrage machine snapped into action and the video quickly gained traction. Social media influencers, celebs and some journalists retweeted it.
Before the account was taken down by Twitter, @2020fight's version of the video was viewed more than 2.5 million times and retweeted more than 14,400 times, according to a cached version of the tweet seen by CNN Business.
*
*Social media accounts repost it over and over*
Like all videos that go viral, Taitano's original clip was downloaded and reposted by other people and accounts, over and over and over again — often without her permission or knowledge.
Her original YouTube video now has more than 4.5 million views. But some reposts of her videos, with their added assumptions and commentaries, have even more.
A number of people and organizations, including the Roman Catholic Diocese of Covington, Kentucky, quickly condemned the students seen in the video.

*News organizations learn there's more to the story*





Another video shows members of the Hebrew Israelites agitating others in the crowd.
When legitimate news outlets attempt to investigate videos like this, it can be difficult to wade through hundreds — sometimes thousands — of reposts to find the original post.

*CNN tracked down Taitano, who said the incident started when a shouting match erupted between the students and four African-American men who were preaching about the Bible nearby.
Newly discovered video, which came to light after CNN published its first story on the incident, showed the group of black men, who identify themselves as members of the Hebrew Israelites, shouting slurs at the Native Americans and the Catholic students.*





Nick Sandmann: "I would caution everyone passing judgment based on a few seconds of video. ..."

*At 7:10 p.m. on Sunday, CNN obtained a statement from Nick Sandmann, the Covington student seen confronting Phillips, the Native American elder. He denied allegations he was mocking Phillips and said he was trying to defuse a tense situation.*
"I was not intentionally making faces at the protester," Sandmann said in his three-page statement. "I did smile at one point because I wanted him to know that I was not going to become angry, intimidated or be provoked into a larger confrontation."

*The @2020fight Twitter account is suspended*
*
The account claimed to belong to a California schoolteacher. But CNN Business found that its profile photo was not of a schoolteacher but of a blogger based in Brazil.
Twitter suspended the @2020fight account Monday evening after CNN revealed that information to the company.
It's unclear who ran the @2020fight account. Twitter is investigating.*

But the tweeter was able to sway the opinions of many people with just one tweet.
It's the latest example of social media's glaring problem: snap judgments, without full context, spread by people who themselves could be trying to deceive or sway opinions.
CNN's David Williams contributed to this report. *Source*


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> but some on the right also jump to wrong conclusion



Hence no one should come to conclusions on small clips played by media. Its often best to follow 48 hr policy to see what actually the whole picture is. Media (and twitter mobs) are culprit here...they blew it out of proportion so quickly....just like they did with the Buzzfeed "trump ordered cohen to lie proof"...that Mueller team itself had to slap down hard.


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## Nilgiri




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## VCheng

Roger Stone indicted.

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## RabzonKhan

Nancy Pelosi wins again! 

Trump is reopening the government without any money for his border wall.

Clearly, it was a win for Nancy Pelosi, who had insisted on no negotiation until Trump reopened the government.








VCheng said:


> Roger Stone indicted.


I am loving it.


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> Nancy Pelosi wins again!
> 
> Trump is reopening the government without any money for his border wall.
> 
> Clearly, it was a win for Nancy Pelosi, who had insisted on no negotiation until Trump reopened the government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am loving it.



Uh wrong. 3 week reopening means the dems have to get a wall in there (just like their position under Bush AND Obama) and prove they negotiate in good faith.

This is not a 6 month or 1 year reopening "continuing resolution" usual blah crap....its just to get the SOTU in so trump can get some good coverage right in front of the dems faces. He always wins those handily (in case you forgot the debates with killary too lol)....I wont forget schoomer and pelosi blank expression "response" and those twitter memes following haha. More moments like that to follow for SOTU.








VCheng said:


> Roger Stone indicted.



Zero crimes during the actual election period that the whole dem, MSM, deep state have gone all in for...and are now going to reamed by US public when the mueller report comes out lol.

All these non-relevant indictments will easily be defeated by Roger Stone...its becoming increasingly clear what this actually is about ever since what they did to General Flynn (and even the FBI agents who interviewed him literally admitted he did no crime....definitely nothing that comes close to bit bleach servergate of uranium-one killary...i.e destroying subpoenaed evidence and claiming no intent = no crime  ).


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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> Nancy Pelosi wins again!



No, she won this round. Now comes the next. And the one after that. It is a never-ending game.



Nilgiri said:


> Zero crimes during the actual election period that the whole dem, MSM, deep state have gone all in for...and are now going to reamed by US public when the mueller report comes out lol.
> 
> All these non-relevant indictments will easily be defeated by Roger Stone...its becoming increasingly clear what this actually is about ever since what they did to General Flynn (and even the FBI agents who interviewed him literally admitted he did no crime....definitely nothing that comes close to bit bleach servergate of uranium-one killary...i.e destroying subpoenaed evidence and claiming no intent = no crime  ).



The full report will be interesting either way: bombshell or damp squib.


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## Gomig-21

Nilgiri said:


> Heh you have taken over for me while I was away. Good job bud.



looooooooooooooool!


Desert Fox said:


> No problem. That's what we're here for my friend



Oh come on! You guys give out a membership to this little self-stroking click you got going on, here?  Is there a fee join in or you just have to be some right-wing nut and that suffices? lmfao!



Nilgiri said:


> Trump will definitely get a 2nd term. Did you see schoomer and pelosi in the white house ...."lets not disagree so openly on policy in front of the public mr president"



Well, all I can say is I'm glad you don't have an official say in the matter! 



RabzonKhan said:


> Looks like Trump has met his match.



Great job keeping up the work in my absence, Rabzon.  And way to go Pelosi!  Keep that shyster mobster in check, him and his clown of a gumba attorney who does nothing but shoot himself in the foot every time he opens that stink mouth of his.

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## Desert Fox

Gomig-21 said:


> Oh come on! You guys give out a membership to this little self-stroking click you got going on, here?  Is there a fee join in or you just have to be some right-wing nut and that suffices? lmfao!


Well, as they say, it takes one to know one.


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## Nilgiri

Gomig-21 said:


> looooooooooooooool!
> 
> 
> Oh come on! You guys give out a membership to this little self-stroking click you got going on, here?  Is there a fee join in or you just have to be some right-wing nut and that suffices? lmfao!
> 
> 
> 
> Well, all I can say is I'm glad you don't have an official say in the matter!
> 
> 
> 
> Great job keeping up the work in my absence, Rabzon.  And way to go Pelosi!  Keep that shyster mobster in check, him and his clown of a gumba attorney who does nothing but shoot himself in the foot every time he opens that stink mouth of his.



Welcome back! Its been while eh?

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## Nilgiri

Credit to Vice, they actually explored some of the other side perspectives somewhat neutrally:






Most of legacy media wouldn't even think to do this... and have just bunkered down on their SJW-leftist-NPC only overton window side (and let the trend of dissatisfaction and disenchantment with the democrat party grow).


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## RabzonKhan

*Cartoons of the week





*













Gomig-21 said:


> Great job keeping up the work in my absence, Rabzon.  And way to go Pelosi!  Keep that shyster mobster in check, him and his clown of a gumba attorney who does nothing but shoot himself in the foot every time he opens that stink mouth of his.


Welcome, good to see you back.


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## RabzonKhan

Nilgiri said:


> Uh wrong. 3 week reopening means the dems have to get a wall in there (just like their position under Bush AND Obama) and prove they negotiate in good faith.
> 
> This is not a 6 month or 1 year reopening "continuing resolution" usual blah crap....its just to get the SOTU in so trump can get some good coverage right in front of the dems faces. He always wins those handily (in case you forgot the debates with killary too lol)....I wont forget schoomer and pelosi blank expression "response" and those twitter memes following haha. More moments like that to follow for SOTU.


My friend, you are far more intelligent than that right-wing hippie -looking guy. I watched the clip the guy lied several times in that six-minute clip.

Let’s recap: Trump had agreed on a bipartisan Senate short-term spending bill that was passed in December, it would have kept the government open till February 8, and during that period Democrats and Republicans were going to negotiate on more funds for the border security, but then the right-wing extremist, especially Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News hosts and guests rebelled, Trump got scared and pulled 180- degree U-turn and refused to sign the bill without $ 5.7 billion.

And then, week after week, he said government will stay partially shut down until Democrats agreed to pay 5.7 billion for his wall. He even rejected a proposal from Republican Sen Lindsey Graham to reopen the government for three weeks.

He ignored several polls that showed American people were not buying his exaggeration, lies and fear mongering, but when six Republican senators voted for Democrat’s bill to reopen the government without wall funding and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell told him that he had no way out. Finally, Trump came to see what many had known for weeks that he was fighting a losing battle.

He has lost the battle, his SOTU speech will make no difference.

Bottom line, after 35 days of chaos, Trump ended up signing the same bill that was offered to him before all this drama began. He gained nothing, not a single dime for his wall, lost bigly!

There is a Punjabi proverb for a situation like this: Jithay di khoti uthe aan khaloti.
Meaning, (khoti is a female donkey in Punjabi) the donkey has come to stop at the very place it started off from.



Nilgiri said:


> Credit to Vice, they actually explored some of the other side perspectives somewhat neutrally:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of legacy media wouldn't even think to do this... and have just bunkered down on their SJW-leftist-NPC only overton window side (and let the trend of dissatisfaction and disenchantment with the democrat party grow).


in 2016 election, 8% blacks voted for Trump, good for them.


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> than that right-wing hippie -looking guy.



He's not "right wing actually"....he has several left wing tendencies too. I like to keep tabs on people that are gathering large audiences now, thanks to MSM failing repeatedly and not learning.



RabzonKhan said:


> Trump had agreed



Who fed you that? CNN? LOL. There was a reason the bill was given back to house to put the wall in it...and they did and passed it. The senate vote never got done on the revised one...because Mitch did not want to use the nuclear option.

So Trump was right in that the issue needed to be made....and made again to show its the democrats that are completely being unfair (this is literally the stuff they were supporting under Bush and Obama). Its literally 5.7 billion dollars out of 4 trillion spending. AND he threw in a DACA extension.

Anyways he will get the SOTU now (to make his case again in front of grumpy hostile non-clapping dems), and gives plenty of time to these dems to literally agree to what they agreed under the last 2 presidents. If they do not go for it yet again with ball in their court (that Trump has handed them back craftily to show some responsibility from their side), they lose the argument (in their own setting) and Trump will simply not entertain anything they need him for from their end after that....and get the wall done through Executive actions, come what may.



RabzonKhan said:


> He ignored several polls



Oooooh polls! Polls STRONK! How was Reagan doing polls wise 2 years in? 




RabzonKhan said:


> He ignored several polls that showed American people were not buying his exaggeration, lies and fear mongering, but when six Republican senators voted for Democrat’s bill to reopen the government without wall funding and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell told him that he had no way out. Finally, Trump came to see what many had known for weeks that he was fighting a losing battle.
> 
> He has lost the battle, his SOTU speech will make no difference.
> 
> Bottom line, after 35 days of chaos, Trump ended up signing the same bill that was offered to him before all this drama began. He gained nothing, not a single dime for his wall, lost bigly!



Whooo CNN STRONK! Why don't you actually wait to see the 3 weeks (notice thats not a CR of 6 months or a year) first? I mean you waited (with bated breath and huge anticipation that MSM was feeding you feelz wise) 2 years for the lovely Mueller report that CNN et al. already walking back big time now (and derpy little buzzfeed left charging into the windmills alone hahaha). It was supposed to deliver a crime and impeachment!...but now even pelosi crying that the house will "continue" looking into it past the mueller report....dayum! Guess it was a nothing burger after all. 

If the dems don't put a wall in in these 3 weeks, Trump is proven right that the original shutdown was the right call. If the dems want to be proven correct that there was no need for the shutdown to happen....they have to put a wall in this time. Either way Trump wins in the end with his base and what his team say are significant pockets of support in swing states and crucial suburbia for 2020 (but of course thats all fake compared to the MSM polls that got the last federal election so spot on lol).

An Actual AG (Barr) hopefully gets things rolling soon to get things done on the demoscum (and their FBI "insurance plan" cabal in hot water now). Stuff like bleach bit on subpoenaed evidence by a certain actual witch....that claims intent is all that matters in a crime. Stuff like laundering dirty dossier through the clinton foundation + FBI to both spy on political opponent and hamstring him should the unthinkable happen (i.e the fake polls/MSM blah dont do their job to depress turnout on opponents end just like witch's basic look and bernie-rigging did to her end...i.e the "insurance plan").



RabzonKhan said:


> in 2016 election, 8% blacks voted for Trump, good for them.



More than McCain and Romney. Same thing with hispanic vote. Are those two more WAISSSIST than Trump or something or what?  Lets see 2020...I'm sure the trend will be quite clear. Its why Dems go "all in" these days with all the conspiracy theories....they got the MSM in their pocket...its the typical predictable move for gated elites against the plantations they have made when they see its enforcement fraying.


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## RabzonKhan

*Senator Cory Booker announces 2020 presidential campaign





*
Sen. Cory Booker of New Jersey said Friday that he will seek the Democratic nomination for president, adding his name to a growing and increasingly diversified field of 2020 candidates intent on taking on President Trump.

Booker made his announcement via an email and video to supporters, and he had interviews scheduled throughout the day.

“The history of our nation is defined by collective action; by interwoven destinies of slaves and abolitionists; of those born here and those who chose America as home; of those who took up arms to defend our country, and those who linked arms to challenge and change it,” Booker said in his video, which made repeated references to Trump and his actions as president.

“I believe that we can build a country where no one is forgotten, no one is left behind; where parents can put food on the table; where there are good paying jobs with good benefits in every neighborhood; where our criminal justice system keeps us safe, instead of shuffling more children into cages and coffins; where we see the faces of our leaders on television and feel pride, not shame,” he said.

Booker joined a race already occupied by three other senators — Kamala D. Harris of California, Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts and Kirsten Gillibrand of New York — as well as several other candidates.

That same day, Harris announced that she was running for president. Booker’s entry makes this the first nomination contest with at least two major African American contenders. Former Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. is also considering a run.

Booker’s announcement came toward the close of a week that raised the prospect of a significantly more complicated 2020 campaign. Former Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz confirmed on CBS’s “60 Minutes” that he was considering an independent run for the presidency.


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## Nilgiri

Good job CNN, reporting accurately as always:


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## Nilgiri




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## Nilgiri

@Hamartia Antidote


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## RabzonKhan

LEAKED SCHEDULES Reveal Donald Trump Only Works About 40% of the Time!


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## Nilgiri

The Northam vs Fairfax fight is really turning out to be hillarious . Which is more hypocritical approach by the left when they consume their own like Goya's Saturn? 

Past KKK yearbook feelz or selective rejection of #Metoo (BELIEVE ALL WOMEN PERIOD) when its a dumbocrat?

I for one give "support" to all the characters...may this continue good, nasty and as long as possible . May such things get sniffed out and pick up even more in the months to come  ...and may the final truth come out in the end of it all. The swing state suburbia is watching intently  @Joe Shearer @VCheng @Desert Fox @jbgt90 @OsmanAli98 

BTW Joe I propose we continue "that" discussion over here at your leisure....seems most appropriate thread for it.

Anyway to take mind off this blue on blue dumbocrat fight that CNN et al are now in hillarious damage control mode about:

A few musings (not gonna reveal where or who these people are...though it would surprise many how high up the chain they are) on the grapevine...

=============

_The argument will be made that by releasing the classified information, Trump is deliberately compromising the Mueller investigation in ways that hinder further evidence gathering activities by the FBI and the DOJ while they are looking into matters that have not yet been resolved. 

The argument will also be made that the document releases will slow or prevent effective investigation and prosecution of the criminal activities of those being investigated. 

Those who designed The Insurance Policy and who are now carrying it out with such good effect are experts in using their knowledge of FBI and DOJ agency procedures in ways that make it exceptionally easy to abuse the investigative and prosecutorial power the federal government against someone they don't like. 

The Deep State knows this; the Democrats in Congress know this. It is quite likely that if Trump indicates he will be releasing the classified material, Mueller will then state in writing to the AG and to the Congressional Democrats that he considers declassification and release of the classified FISA material to constitute obstruction of justice.

If Donald Trump actually goes through with declassification -- how can he not go through with it and still remain as president to the end of his term -- the act of releasing the FISA material will instantly move the impeachment process into high gear. The order of lawfare battle on each side is fairly evident if you look closely enough.

==========

So we're fast approaching the GO/NO Go point for the Samson Option and bring the whole corrupt temple down?

==============

The big battle will come on quickly, but I suspect it will be a long drawn out affair as each side executes its lawfare battle plan and then assesses the subsequent results, making further moves and countermoves as the developing situation dictates. 

The Democrats and their allies in the MSM and in the Deep State already have their entire strategy, schedule, and tactical plan mapped out. Its success depends on Trump and his closest advisors taking few if any strong counter measures to defend themselves. 

If the classified Spygate material is in fact released at some point, we can predict the Democrats and the MSM will either ignore the content of all that released material, or will blatantly misrepresent what it actually contains. 

Whatever happens, the Democrats and the Deep State are completely confident they can bring Trump and his administration down, if not directly through impeachment and a follow-on trial then indirectly by damaging his administration too such an extent politically that it is incapable of carrying out Trump's policy agenda in its last two years. 

Suppose Trump counter attacks with everything he's got, deliberately luring his enemies into a lawfare battle which those enemies are certain they can win. And now suppose Trump wins in a protracted lawfare exercise and clearly demonstrates to the voters what kinds illegal methods and means were being used against him. 

If it happens this way, will we see Kamala Harris or Michele Obama accusing Trump of collusion with the Russians, assuming one of those two is nominated in the summer of 2020? More probably than not, the Democrats will not let loose of the Russia collusion narrative regardless of what happens between now and November, 2020.
===============================

The Democrats can be summed up as sadistic bastards who use government to break your legs, destroy your livelihood, then congratulate themselves on handing you a few ibuprophen. The sick bastards do it so they can get rich and feel superior to you.

Time to get medieval on their asses. Make that our public message. We will use government to end their killing spree, strip them of their ill-gotten booty, and hand them over to a vengeful public for justice._

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## Joe Shearer

We could shift the discussion here; perhaps one of the Mods. will help??



Nilgiri said:


> The Northam vs Fairfax fight is really turning out to be hillarious . Which is more hypocritical approach by the left when they consume their own like Goya's Saturn?
> 
> Past KKK yearbook feelz or selective rejection of #Metoo (BELIEVE ALL WOMEN PERIOD) when its a dumbocrat?
> 
> I for one give "support" to all the characters...may this continue good, nasty and as long as possible . May such things get sniffed out and pick up even more in the months to come  ...and may the final truth come out in the end of it all. The swing state suburbia is watching intently  @Joe Shearer @VCheng @Desert Fox @jbgt90 @OsmanAli98
> 
> BTW Joe I propose we continue "that" discussion over here at your leisure....seems most appropriate thread for it.
> 
> Anyway to take mind off this blue on blue dumbocrat fight that CNN et al are now in hillarious damage control mode about:
> 
> A few musings (not gonna reveal where or who these people are...though it would surprise many how high up the chain they are) on the grapevine...
> 
> =============
> 
> _The argument will be made that by releasing the classified information, Trump is deliberately compromising the Mueller investigation in ways that hinder further evidence gathering activities by the FBI and the DOJ while they are looking into matters that have not yet been resolved.
> 
> The argument will also be made that the document releases will slow or prevent effective investigation and prosecution of the criminal activities of those being investigated.
> 
> Those who designed The Insurance Policy and who are now carrying it out with such good effect are experts in using their knowledge of FBI and DOJ agency procedures in ways that make it exceptionally easy to abuse the investigative and prosecutorial power the federal government against someone they don't like.
> 
> The Deep State knows this; the Democrats in Congress know this. It is quite likely that if Trump indicates he will be releasing the classified material, Mueller will then state in writing to the AG and to the Congressional Democrats that he considers declassification and release of the classified FISA material to constitute obstruction of justice.
> 
> If Donald Trump actually goes through with declassification -- how can he not go through with it and still remain as president to the end of his term -- the act of releasing the FISA material will instantly move the impeachment process into high gear. The order of lawfare battle on each side is fairly evident if you look closely enough.
> 
> ==========
> 
> So we're fast approaching the GO/NO Go point for the Samson Option and bring the whole corrupt temple down?
> 
> ==============
> 
> The big battle will come on quickly, but I suspect it will be a long drawn out affair as each side executes its lawfare battle plan and then assesses the subsequent results, making further moves and countermoves as the developing situation dictates.
> 
> The Democrats and their allies in the MSM and in the Deep State already have their entire strategy, schedule, and tactical plan mapped out. Its success depends on Trump and his closest advisors taking few if any strong counter measures to defend themselves.
> 
> If the classified Spygate material is in fact released at some point, we can predict the Democrats and the MSM will either ignore the content of all that released material, or will blatantly misrepresent what it actually contains.
> 
> Whatever happens, the Democrats and the Deep State are completely confident they can bring Trump and his administration down, if not directly through impeachment and a follow-on trial then indirectly by damaging his administration too such an extent politically that it is incapable of carrying out Trump's policy agenda in its last two years.
> 
> Suppose Trump counter attacks with everything he's got, deliberately luring his enemies into a lawfare battle which those enemies are certain they can win. And now suppose Trump wins in a protracted lawfare exercise and clearly demonstrates to the voters what kinds illegal methods and means were being used against him.
> 
> If it happens this way, will we see Kamala Harris or Michele Obama accusing Trump of collusion with the Russians, assuming one of those two is nominated in the summer of 2020? More probably than not, the Democrats will not let loose of the Russia collusion narrative regardless of what happens between now and November, 2020.
> ===============================
> 
> The Democrats can be summed up as sadistic bastards who use government to break your legs, destroy your livelihood, then congratulate themselves on handing you a few ibuprophen. The sick bastards do it so they can get rich and feel superior to you.
> 
> Time to get medieval on their asses. Make that our public message. We will use government to end their killing spree, strip them of their ill-gotten booty, and hand them over to a vengeful public for justice._

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## Nilgiri

I'll just post it here and you can quote from it as you want to:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what...ght-now-round-2.146915/page-694#post-11149851

===========================================



Joe Shearer said:


> More later.



I propose we move this to the "whatever thread" or some other such. This is the music thread after all.



Joe Shearer said:


> Is @Nilgiri a closet leftist, forced to conceal his alignment and beliefs due to pressure from in-vogue, politically correct leftists haranguing him on PDF?



This is the classical liberal vs neo-liberal fight in a nutshell. Yes I count myself as classical liberal in many ways still (its not really all too different from classical conservative either). As they say, if you were not on the "left" when you were young...you have no heart....if you are not on the "right" when you have grown up...you have no brain. 



Joe Shearer said:


> Now I wonder WHO those 'they' could be.



Oh just regular working class people who have voted democrat all their lives (many also voted Hillary this time around too)....as the democrat party of the bulk of their lives aligned with their classical liberal views much more than the country club Republican party.

I meet them through various channels, mostly the music (share + discuss) world funnily enough but also work related and random meetings or friends of friends, families etc....given thats all the sort of thing that brings people together a lot rather than divide them...and then we meander to other topics and develop links and bonds.

I present to you 3 of them (a, b and c)..TIFWIW...there are many many more but I would rather flesh 3 out a bit:

a) People like the fella who has to drive two kids to school each day (Portland OR), and has to shield their eyes when there is a homeless person taking a dump on the grass median of the road...thanks to the more recent far left taking over the city politics (after the long long unbroken, unchallenged tenure of the democrats since forever)...and then the kids to add insult to injury are taught to hate themselves for being of a certain race and gender....and this fella has to un-doctrinate them the best he can, he can't afford private school...he (and wife) are working two shifts as it is to make ends meet AND pay for the big leftie state govt leaching off of them....and stopping any fresh investment to provide a better job security....given they control all the leaders of the trade union he is forced to be part of to have a job in first place. Yay for dialogue/debate in land of the 1st amendment!

b) Or maybe the fella I met and struck up a friendship with (through his son who I was trying to poach for my company at that time and succeeded only a lot later) when I visited Michigan (and few other states of the "Rust belt") who had such hope for Jimmy Carter presidency in his youth, yet ended up respecting Reagan (who he disagreed with mostly) as well.

A well respected tool and die guy, worked for Ford all his career....has a finger to the wind on what the working class sentiments are in the area....a big proponent of there being something special in the water of Michigan for the great music talent the State has produced over any other (in his opinion). But he couldn't for the life of him help wondering why Hillary didn't visit his area even ONCE to explain what she was going to do for his folks (so they could at least judge on what she delivered in the end)....why did she treat them as guaranteed vote INSPITE of him and others literally begging her campaign to get over there and address the concerns they saw building up in the disgruntled laid off masses....that were given the silent ear by Obama too (after his whole "change" campaign in 08). Like he said to me as he took me on tour of some of the hollowed out factories that once made this area produce HALF the output of automobiles for the world...."you don't quite understand what the rust belt is, till you have seen and smelled the inside of its once-proud titan fossils for yourself". He will not be voting for the democrats or anyone ever again...and I believe him.

He told me each day he would drive down a certain road, he would see a certain Bernie supporter's house that stood out in its signage "VOTE BERNIE"....and it stayed up there even after Hillary (and cabal) rigged the primary, ignored the underlying reasons that brought out Bernie support completely and felt/assumed somehow all these people that did vote Obama would vote for her at beck and call without doing anything to earn it from them. Well he drove past that house after Nov 8th and the signage of that house simply read "WE WON". You have to be from here to understand 

c) Then there are people like the woman who voted democrat all her life, both her parents having marched with Martin Luther King...proudly BEHIND the US flag (for that was the symbol of the great potential to be realised). A woman sadly that has had to bury her son draped in that flag forever...for he fought for the flag and country and paid the ultimate sacrifice for it. Yet now this woman has to see the democrat party she supported so long and so strongly....get on the side of "Black lives matter" who have hijacked the message of the civil rights movement to frequently something quite perverse (reverse racism and grand identity politics...everything against what Mr. King stood for when he said "content of character over colour of your skin")....and then add to that the neo-democrat (because of far left take over) support towards those that disrespect the US flag, that her son died for.

There is a reason these spectacles the dems and their overpaid celebrity/athlete hacks do...keep away military families from the microphone to have just one narrative in the stadium where they do this buffoonery. They would not like to hear what they have to say...nope not one bit.

Really really easy to "take a knee" when you have millions of dollars each year and legions of fans that idolize you and in your ego you want to show them you can even disrespect a symbol that means something deep to so many...and still have all of that....because thats apparently freedom. But the Media and dems say its soooo hard to do, that such people are "heroes"....and the echo chamber nods dully and claps in blind applause.

Not so easy to support that when you lost a son... that barely anyone knows his name, certainly didnt earn millions each year and all you have left of him is that flag he fought for. I still tear up sometimes when I think of all she (and her hubby) told me about it. It speaks to me on whole different plane...I'm sure it does for you too.

You see such people do not fundamentally like being taken for granted just because they voted all their life as classical liberals (when the Republican party was far more snobbish and country club like to them)....street fighter "rough and tough" "pro working class" Democrats like Joe Biden and Jerry Brown really spoke to them...(who have now been turned and laundered into far left muppets too). Like take illegal immigration vs open borders issue. There was full bipartisan consensus with the democrats funding precisely (under Clinton and Obama) what they simply refuse to fund now. People aren't as stupid as the democrats think they are to forget this....and what it means to working class wages in the end (using the original Democrat messaging itself like that of Cesar Chavez).

It is made all too clear what kind of people are hijacking the democrat party now....people that will not tolerate any dialogue at all...given you can just throw insults like "racist" and "sexist" now and "win". I encourage you to watch/flick thru this video to get what I mean:






The poignant part for me is when Nuance bro finally does get to have a serious discussion (away from the anti-dialogue ANTIFA types) 1 on 1 with that black lady at the end and the kind of thing that I also gleam from lot of traditional democrats (who WANT to talk and explain and are not so young, brash and ignorant) surfaces around the 20.35 mark....yet during the demonstration she would have guaranteed been assumed by the ANTIFA types there (attacking, shoving and preventing nuance bro from having any dialogue) to be someone that blindly supports full repeal of the 2nd amendment.

This is case in point for me. The people that can think for themselves, have common sense and put personal responsibility and self-improvement FIRST (and practice what they preach....say unlike those that shout "global warming" and "open borders" from their gated complexes which they leave only to take holidays on private jets)....I do not care if they identify as left or right or centre, liberal or conservative.....they are fundamentally people I can have a dialogue and compromise with. The new left/far left are people that do not want to have any dialogue at all. It is a mistake of the democrat party to pander to them as a base. They will learn it the hard way again if this is the route they persist with.

Because such people forget where America came from and what it was founded upon...that a man must be responsible for himself first and foremost before preaching responsibility for others (why you think the wild west stories are so fundamentally appealing?). The classical liberals, classical conservatives etc ALL get this....the far-left and their emotional lackeys have this fundamentally reversed and think (in their ego and insidious hijacking of the traditional narrative channels) they can pull this off (sometimes posing as the "alt-right" too). Little do they know the real nuanced America and its sheer bulk.

This is music thread and I have posted way too much here without an accompaniment for it.....so let me rectify that now (and I hope we can move this to another more appropriate thread for the discussion part)....it's the true message found deep in this song by Bocephus (given the old country roots many even in Urban-for-generations do acknowledge at some level if they are fair/responsible enough to themselves and their history)....as much as his dad was overall the better musician, Junior did surpass his dad's zenith in some ways in this one:






I mean you tell me yourself Joe Saab, where are the toughest most resilient and grounded folks found in India? The big cities....or the towns and villages?  ...its not too hard to think why they are picked upon and ridiculed by those that want to strip identity, culture and nationhood...to form some conceptual brave new world that only exists in their head if that. This is not exclusive to any country, its quite a common and ever-present thing in the end.

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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> The Northam vs Fairfax fight is really turning out to be hillarious . Which is more hypocritical approach by the left when they consume their own like Goya's Saturn?
> 
> Past KKK yearbook feelz or selective rejection of #Metoo (BELIEVE ALL WOMEN PERIOD) when its a dumbocrat?
> 
> I for one give "support" to all the characters...may this continue good, nasty and as long as possible . May such things get sniffed out and pick up even more in the months to come  ...and may the final truth come out in the end of it all. The swing state suburbia is watching intently


It is indeed interesting but not surprising. 

*The Liberal Left self-projects it's own internal image onto others. *

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## RabzonKhan

*Trump's full 2019 State of the Union address:*






*

Stacey Abrams' Official Democratic Response to State of the Union (FULL)





*


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## RabzonKhan

*Joe: This Speech Was Packed With Lies | Morning Joe | MSNBC*


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> *Trump's full 2019 State of the Union address:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Stacey Abrams' Official Democratic Response to State of the Union (FULL)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Its not working!!!! (Even according to MSM poll now haha):









Desert Fox said:


> *The Liberal Left self-projects it's own internal image onto others. *



Yep check this out hahahahahahaah:






@VCheng

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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> Its not working!!!! (Even according to MSM poll now haha):
> 
> View attachment 537579
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep check this out hahahahahahaah:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @VCheng


Lol Trump states the obvious facts and the Dems make faces and refuse to show support for the President's mentioning of positive things that all humans can agree on regardless of their differences:

Trump: "innocent life is worth preserving"

Dems: sad faces/refuse to applaud

Trump: "Blacks and Hispanics are doing well"

Dems: sad faces/refuse to applaud

Trump: "socialism is a failure"

Dems: sad faces/refuse to applaud

And LOL @ Bernie's face when Trump mentions the failure of socialism

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## Nilgiri

Desert Fox said:


> And LOL @ Bernie's face when Trump mentions the failure of socialism



AOC also was looking all triggered when he said it hahaha (most MSM showed bernie, but I was on PBS and it zoomed on her too)...what an effin twit she is!

Then they (dem wimmen) all stand and applaud each other (yaaay us!!!!) ONLY when its about "women" getting elected in the highest number in US history etc....as though thats some massive glass ceiling in the USA/west now compared to the other stuff. AOC even thought that was a "self trolling" by Trump to bring it up because it was "mostly us the dems that are wimmen in politics blah blah".....literally proving Trump's whole (underlying nuanced mocking) point they fell right into (perception wise for the public). They literally are this stupid and rabid.

Even controlled opposition Ben rightfully rips them apart for it. This is not playing well at all to US public when they see dems doing this stuff (all glum and angry when its black, minority, disabled unemployment improving to the lowest they have ever been etc....but patting themselves "YAY me, GO me" style while showing no gratitude one bit to the ACTUAL people that did something to get that stuff done back in the day). 

Ben also makes one really good point that I have will have to steal now to trigger some more lefties I come across.......i.e aren't these the same people saying Gender is fluid and doesn't matter to begin with (you just need to identify feelings wise)....so why are they celebrating identity-accomplishment-wise something so fluid and non-delineated in first place?  

Technically all it requires is for congress politicians to feel like they are wimmen and you can get a 100% wimmen congress even! Think of the progressiveness!

But of course this part of the argument is not allowed in NPC-feelz-landia....just likes its fine to wear KKK hoods and have blackface photos in your yearbook when you are a democrat....or not believe ALL women first thing....or any other of the PC-SJW rules.

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## KAL-EL

Some in the house chamber looked like they could use a nice trip to the Olive Garden.

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Its not working!!!! (Even according to MSM poll now haha):
> 
> View attachment 537579
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep check this out hahahahahahaah:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @VCheng



Forget all that. I am still laughing at the New Green Deal.

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## KAL-EL

VCheng said:


> Forget all that. I am still laughing at the New Green Deal.



The world will end in 12 years.

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## VCheng

KAL-EL said:


> The world will end in 12 years.




Well, then I am partying all I can till then.

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## Nilgiri

Well in this time and age of fake hero posturing/drama regarding the "system"....I think a little time out to acknowledge one that actually did something quite heroic can't hurt:






@VCheng @Joe Shearer @Vibrio @jbgt90 @Hamartia Antidote @Gomig-21 @KAL-EL 

From wiki:

While stationed in the South, he "waged a one man battle against Jim Crow from inside the army". He challenged the racial order with provocative statements to his fellow soldiers. This resulted in an overseeing officer filing a court-martial proceeding against Williams. Williams argued his own case and was found not guilty.[4] While considering filing countercharges against the officer that had brought him up for court martial, Williams found himself transferred to Korea. Upon arriving there, Williams marked "Caucasian" for race on his personnel form. When challenged on this, Williams replied wryly if he had marked "Black", he would end up getting all the worst jobs. From Korea, Williams wrote a letter to President John F. Kennedy denouncing the pervasive racism in the American government and military and questioning the actions black Americans should take given the state of affairs, writing:

_Should Negroes be relieved of their service obligation or continue defending and dying for empty promises of freedom and equality? Or should we demand human rights as our Founding Fathers did at the risk of being called extremists ... I contend that we relieve ourselves of oppression in a manner that is in keeping with the great heritage of our nation._[4]

He received a reply from the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense, Alfred B. Fitt, a response which he termed "the most reasonable response that I received from any official."[7]

Williams was described as follows by Richard W. Rahn in a December 20, 2010 _Washington Times_ column:

_Friends who knew Mr. Williams long before I did have told me that he, by manner and dress, was viewed as a black radical during his earlier student days. He also freely confesses to having been a troublemaker when he was in the Army and elsewhere. But unlike others less wise, Mr. Williams grew to understand that he could do far more for both his black brothers and sisters and all other Americans by teaching them how free markets don't discriminate on the basis of race, religion or national origin, and hence lead to the greatest opportunity and prosperity for all.[8]_

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## TruthSeeker

KAL-EL said:


> The world will end in 12 years.



I'm 73 years old. Not my problem.

And, Walter Williams is one of the smartest most sensible economists I have ever read or listened. I lived in Northern Virginia where he was an economics professor at George Mason University for many years. He was frequently a guest on radio shows and wrote columns for the newspapers such as the Washington Post, Examiner or Times. I loved to hear him on talk radio.

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## RabzonKhan




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## Nilgiri

Gotta give props to the Italians for this LOL:






I mean the twitter symbols around the sword and everything hahaha.

@Zibago @Retired Troll @RabzonKhan @VCheng @Desert Fox @OsmanAli98 @James Jaevid @Hamartia Antidote @Tps43 @Mentee @Joe Shearer @The Sandman @GeraltofRivia 

This comment kinda says it all really:

_I don't care if you like Trump or not or think this is supporting him or mocking him. This is one badass float. Look at that detail on the sword and uniform. They eyes even move. Holy crap, the artists who did this were phenomenal._

@KAL-EL will of course say a cheeseburger or two were missing

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## James David

TruthSeeker said:


> I'm 73 years old. Not my problem.
> 
> And, Walter Williams is one of the smartest most sensible economists I have ever read or listened. I lived in Northern Virginia where he was an economics professor at George Mason University for many years. He was frequently a guest on radio shows and wrote columns for the newspapers such as the Washington Post, Examiner or Times. I loved to hear him on talk radio.



Well since I'm calling @VCheng Grandpa, I will call you Great Grandpa @TruthSeeker

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## Zibago

Nilgiri said:


> Gotta give props to the Italians for this LOL:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean the twitter symbols around the sword and everything hahaha.
> 
> @Zibago @Retired Troll @RabzonKhan @VCheng @Desert Fox @OsmanAli98 @James Jaevid @Hamartia Antidote @Tps43 @Mentee @Joe Shearer @The Sandman @GeraltofRivia
> 
> This comment kinda says it all really:
> 
> _I don't care if you like Trump or not or think this is supporting him or mocking him. This is one badass float. Look at that detail on the sword and uniform. They eyes even move. Holy crap, the artists who did this were phenomenal._
> 
> @KAL-EL will of course say a cheeseburger or two were missing


I used to hate him but now seeing the whole world order falling apart and American influence falling makes me want to like him
He has no clear policy on anything it changes with the wind which has helped Pakistan
As for America well you deserve a loon for a change maybe that will stop from interfering in other countries 
The America that is running a more or less treason trial against it's president has the audacity to call similar laws in other countries as outdated and tools of autocratic regimes
I mean you can't make this fukin shit up


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## GeraltofRivia

Nilgiri said:


> Gotta give props to the Italians for this LOL:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean the twitter symbols around the sword and everything hahaha.
> 
> @Zibago @Retired Troll @RabzonKhan @VCheng @Desert Fox @OsmanAli98 @James Jaevid @Hamartia Antidote @Tps43 @Mentee @Joe Shearer @The Sandman @GeraltofRivia
> 
> This comment kinda says it all really:
> 
> _I don't care if you like Trump or not or think this is supporting him or mocking him. This is one badass float. Look at that detail on the sword and uniform. They eyes even move. Holy crap, the artists who did this were phenomenal._
> 
> @KAL-EL will of course say a cheeseburger or two were missing


Holy xxxx, this is such an incredible piece of artwork, a great combination of details (look at that armor) and functionality (moving eyes, moving heads). think about the man hours that need to spend no this status.

Look like still no one can outplay Italian in term of sculpture after 400 years. Lol.

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## VCheng

James Jaevid said:


> Well since I'm calling @VCheng Grandpa, I will call you Great Grandpa @TruthSeeker



Are you an age-racist?

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## The Sandman

Nilgiri said:


> Gotta give props to the Italians for this LOL:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean the twitter symbols around the sword and everything hahaha.
> 
> @Zibago @Retired Troll @RabzonKhan @VCheng @Desert Fox @OsmanAli98 @James Jaevid @Hamartia Antidote @Tps43 @Mentee @Joe Shearer @The Sandman @GeraltofRivia
> 
> This comment kinda says it all really:
> 
> _I don't care if you like Trump or not or think this is supporting him or mocking him. This is one badass float. Look at that detail on the sword and uniform. They eyes even move. Holy crap, the artists who did this were phenomenal._
> 
> @KAL-EL will of course say a cheeseburger or two were missing


His face looks so funny and real at the same time

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## RabzonKhan

*Sen. Amy Klobuchar has won every one of her elections by huge margins. Now she’s running for president.*

*The Minnesota Democrat has a reputation of being the Senate’s pragmatist.*






Democratic Sen. Amy Klobuchar is running for president in 2020 during a speech at a rally along the Mississippi River on Sunday. She joins a record number of women in the most diverse Democratic primary field in U.S. history.

There are reasons to consider her a serious contender. In her 12 years as Minnesota’s senator, Amy Klobuchar has built a reputation as a quick-witted, hardworking, pragmatist: the *“senator next door.”*

Klobuchar is popular with voters. At 58, she’s on her third term in the Senate — elections she’s won by landslide margins. She won reelection in 2018 by a whopping 26 points over Republican opponent Jim Newberger, including in 43 counties that President Donald Trump won in 2016. *Read more*


And she already had a tit-for-tat with our Man-Child President 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1094744351803170816

=============================================

Saturday Night Live paid homage to the women of Congress


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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> Are you an age-racist?



Ageism/ageist....its a thing.


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Ageism/ageist....its a thing.



Hence my question.


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## Nilgiri

Zibago said:


> I used to hate him but now seeing the whole world order falling apart and American influence falling makes me want to like him
> He has no clear policy on anything it changes with the wind which has helped Pakistan
> As for America well you deserve a loon for a change maybe that will stop from interfering in other countries
> The America that is running a more or less treason trial against it's president has the audacity to call similar laws in other countries as outdated and tools of autocratic regimes
> I mean you can't make this fukin shit up



You have made your view of him clear to me a number of times. I agree with some, disagree with other stuff (like US influence waning because of Trump, or waning significantly at all tbh).

Its just a float in the end....that made me chuckle when I saw it.....and impressed by the detail that went into it.

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## KAL-EL

TruthSeeker said:


> I'm 73 years old. Not my problem.
> 
> And, Walter Williams is one of the smartest most sensible economists I have ever read or listened. I lived in Northern Virginia where he was an economics professor at George Mason University for many years. He was frequently a guest on radio shows and wrote columns for the newspapers such as the Washington Post, Examiner or Times. I loved to hear him on talk radio.



Well I was making reference to something Alexandria Ocasio Cortez mentioned recently.



Nilgiri said:


> Gotta give props to the Italians for this LOL:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean the twitter symbols around the sword and everything hahaha.
> 
> @Zibago @Retired Troll @RabzonKhan @VCheng @Desert Fox @OsmanAli98 @James Jaevid @Hamartia Antidote @Tps43 @Mentee @Joe Shearer @The Sandman @GeraltofRivia
> 
> This comment kinda says it all really:
> 
> _I don't care if you like Trump or not or think this is supporting him or mocking him. This is one badass float. Look at that detail on the sword and uniform. They eyes even move. Holy crap, the artists who did this were phenomenal._
> 
> @KAL-EL will of course say a cheeseburger or two were missing



Looks good, and yes, a cheeseburger or two would have definitely added even more pizzazz

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## Nilgiri




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## RabzonKhan

*President Donald Trump Seems To Borrow Clinton's 'Stronger Together' | Morning Joe | MSNBC *


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## RabzonKhan

Nilgiri said:


> Who fed you that? CNN? LOL. There was a reason the bill was given back to house to put the wall in it...and they did and passed it. The senate vote never got done on the revised one...because Mitch did not want to use the nuclear option.


Sorry for the late response, I’m a busy person and I had to find news stories sources/links that are almost 2 months old, but I was really surprised that you had forgotten how the whole drama started?

I stand by what I said, the drama was triggered after the Republican controlled Senate passed a bipartisan short-term spending bill on December 19, that Trump had indicated he will sign, otherwise think about it, why would Republican Senators pass a bill that their own President was not going to sign, that’s not how our system works.

Here we go:

*Senate passes short-term spending bill to avert shutdown*
12/19/2018

The legislation was passed by voice vote and will keep the government open until Feb. 8, *Source *



Meanwhile it looks like Trump is again ready to cave, and the new deal is even worse than the deal he rejected in December last year. 

Of course, his extremist crazy supporters, Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity are not happy:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1095373889113251841
Sean Hannity called it a garbage compromise “On this new, so-called compromise, I’m getting details,” Fox News host Sean Hannity said, referring to the tentative agreement reached by a bipartisan conference committee that would allocate roughly $1.3 billion for physical barriers along the U.S.-Mexico border. “1.3 billion? That’s not a — not even a wall, a barrier?” Hannity said. *Source*


*With Shutdown Looming, Border Deal Is Reached ‘in Principle’*

WASHINGTON — *House and Senate negotiators on Monday night agreed in principle to provide $1.375 billion for fencing and other physical barriers at the Mexican border, part of a broader agreement that would stave off another partial government shutdown without funding President Trump’s wall.*

*The agreement would allow for 55 miles of new bollard fencing*, with some restrictions on location based on community and environmental concerns, according to two congressional aides, who requested anonymity to disclose details of the private negotiations. T*hat is a fraction of the more than 200 miles of steel-and-concrete wall that Mr. Trump demanded — and 10 miles less than negotiators agreed on last summer, before Democrats took control of the House.*

The deal, which must still pass the House and the Senate, and secure Mr. Trump’s signature, came together just before Mr. Trump, framed by banners emblazoned with “Finish the Wall” at an event in El Paso, doubled down on his demands.

“We’re building the wall anyway,” he told the crowd, saying that aides had told him that the negotiators had made progress.

*The funding for 55 miles of new fencing is a figure far lower than the $5.7 billion that Mr. Trump had demanded and marginally less than the $1.6 billion for 65 miles of pedestrian fencing in the bill that the Senate Appropriations Committee had passed last year.*

In December, the president, concerned about reneging on his signature campaign promise, refused to sign onto that legislation, forcing the nation’s longest government shutdown. *Source*


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> Sorry for the late response, I’m a busy person and I had to find news stories sources/links that are almost 2 months old, but I was really surprised that you had forgotten how the whole drama started?
> 
> I stand by what I said, the drama was triggered after the Republican controlled Senate passed a bipartisan short-term spending bill on December 19, that Trump had indicated he will sign, otherwise think about it, why would Republican Senators pass a bill that their own President was not going to sign, that’s not how our system works.
> 
> Here we go:
> 
> *Senate passes short-term spending bill to avert shutdown*
> 12/19/2018
> 
> The legislation was passed by voice vote and will keep the government open until Feb. 8, *Source *
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile it looks like Trump is again ready to cave, and the new deal is even worse than the deal he rejected in December last year.
> 
> Of course, his extremist crazy supporters, Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity are not happy:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1095373889113251841
> Sean Hannity called it a garbage compromise “On this new, so-called compromise, I’m getting details,” Fox News host Sean Hannity said, referring to the tentative agreement reached by a bipartisan conference committee that would allocate roughly $1.3 billion for physical barriers along the U.S.-Mexico border. “1.3 billion? That’s not a — not even a wall, a barrier?” Hannity said. *Source*
> 
> 
> *With Shutdown Looming, Border Deal Is Reached ‘in Principle’*
> 
> WASHINGTON — *House and Senate negotiators on Monday night agreed in principle to provide $1.375 billion for fencing and other physical barriers at the Mexican border, part of a broader agreement that would stave off another partial government shutdown without funding President Trump’s wall.*
> 
> *The agreement would allow for 55 miles of new bollard fencing*, with some restrictions on location based on community and environmental concerns, according to two congressional aides, who requested anonymity to disclose details of the private negotiations. T*hat is a fraction of the more than 200 miles of steel-and-concrete wall that Mr. Trump demanded — and 10 miles less than negotiators agreed on last summer, before Democrats took control of the House.*
> 
> The deal, which must still pass the House and the Senate, and secure Mr. Trump’s signature, came together just before Mr. Trump, framed by banners emblazoned with “Finish the Wall” at an event in El Paso, doubled down on his demands.
> 
> “We’re building the wall anyway,” he told the crowd, saying that aides had told him that the negotiators had made progress.
> 
> *The funding for 55 miles of new fencing is a figure far lower than the $5.7 billion that Mr. Trump had demanded and marginally less than the $1.6 billion for 65 miles of pedestrian fencing in the bill that the Senate Appropriations Committee had passed last year.*
> 
> In December, the president, concerned about reneging on his signature campaign promise, refused to sign onto that legislation, forcing the nation’s longest government shutdown. *Source*



Why dont you actually wait and see what happens.....remember all the stuff you posted expecting 100% a grand Hillary win? 

There are things at a President's disposal.....and right now the focus is on the democrats giving him free gifts to smack them around with so easily (just watch first 15 minutes or so LOL):






Its kinda creepy how Kamala Harris does that awkward laugh (when uncomfortable/lying) just like Hillary......

"what were you listening to while getting stoned in college?"

"Snoop dawg I think....or maybe tupac?"

......coming from a head narc ...a frggin DA/AG that graduated in 86 (before either released an album).

You really can't make this crap up!!! 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ka...-weed-in-college-years-before-they-made-music

Another slam dunk for Trump to use if this dumb broad makes it to the finals lol.

@Desert Fox @OsmanAli98 @VCheng @Hamartia Antidote

_Harris’ office did not immediately respond to a request for comment._

Yeah no sh!t sherlocks!

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## Nilgiri

@VCheng ....Green new deal is the gift that keeps on giving

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## James David

VCheng said:


> Are you an age-racist?



I started to have white hair a year ago. On my last count, I have exactly 11... OMG this is not happening!!!

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## VCheng

James David said:


> I started to have white hair a year ago. On my last count, I have exactly 11... OMG this is not happening!!!



LOL. And that is how it begins!

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## Nilgiri

James David said:


> I started to have white hair a year ago. On my last count, I have exactly 11... OMG this is not happening!!!



No white hairs yet for me on the top (yet!).

I do have a couple already in my beard (gotta look for em tho), and couple other beard hairs are transitioning to copper colour slowly too (I'm assuming they will turn white later)


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## nahtanbob

RabzonKhan said:


> And she already had a tit-for-tat with our Man-Child President



i can never complain Trump is boring


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## Nilgiri

*WILLIAM BARR, FROM UNANIMOUS DEMOCRATIC SUPPORT TO NONE*

POSTED ON FEBRUARY 10, 2019 BY PAUL MIRENGOFF

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archi...from-unanimous-democratic-support-to-none.php

Last week, the Senate Judiciary Committee approved the nomination of William Barr for Attorney General. His nomination now moves to the Senate floor where, in all likelihood, Barr will be confirmed very soon.

The vote in the Judiciary Committee was 12-10. Every Democrat on the Committee voted against Barr.

This is the same William Barr whom the Senate confirmed unanimously three times during the Reagan-Bush years. The last of these times, when Barr was nominated to be Attorney General under Bush, the Judiciary Committee approved him by unanimous vote, and the full Senate confirmed him by a voice vote.

Barr was confirmed unanimously even though he testified that _Roe v. Wade_ was incorrectly decided. Joe Biden, then the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, praised Barr for his candor. Biden added that Barr, who had been serving as Deputy Attorney General, as “a throwback to the days when we actually had attorneys general that would talk to you.”

This time around, Barr received no votes from Committee Democrats. In all likelihood, he will receive virtually no Democratic votes on the Senate floor.

Democrats will try to explain their negativity by citing the Mueller investigation. But Barr had nothing but praise for Mueller, and is a personal friend of the special counsel.

Barr testified that he doesn’t believe Mueller would engage in a witch hunt. Matthew Whitaker who is the acting Attorney General and will remain in the job if Barr is not confirmed, refused to deny that Mueller’s probe is a witch hunt.

It’s true that Barr made no categorical commitment to release Mueller’s report in its entirety. Instead, he promised to release as much of it as is permitted by law.

The Democrats weren’t satisfied with this answer. However, they cannot reasonably expect Mueller to violate the law, including applicable regulations. A promise to release more of the Mueller report than the law permits would be legitimate grounds for voting against Barr. A promise to release all that the law permits is not.

The Democrats’ unanimous opposition to Barr isn’t about Mueller, a personal friend of Barr. Rather, it’s the product of their resistance to President Trump. Indeed, any number of Trump appointees have been approved without any Democrat support or with virtually none.

Accordingly, the next time a Democrat is president, Republicans will be well within their rights unanimously to oppose his or her nominees. They should exercise this right freely, though not indiscriminately.

If Republicans happen to control the Senate, meaning that the nominee can’t be confirmed without some GOP votes, this should not deter them from saying no. I suspect it will deter a few GOP members, but it shouldn’t.


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## Nilgiri

*Trump the Ninth Circuit*

*https://donsurber.blogspot.com/2019/02/trump-ninth-circuit.html*

While the talking heads and experts yammer on about a compromise no one has read, the wall along the Mexican border rises, slowly and surely.

Even the Ninth Circuit will not stand in its way.

The Daily Caller reported, "The ruling is another legal victory for Trump in the case after U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel ruled against California in February 2018. Curiel found 'Congress delegated to its executive counterpart, the responsibility to construct border barriers as needed in areas of high illegal entry to detect and deter illegal entries.'

"Trump accused Curiel of being biased against him in an earlier case involving Trump University. Curiel ruled against then-presidential candidate Trump on several points throughout the 2016."

After the election, President Trump settled for everything the plaintiffs wanted. He did so late on a Friday, and then picked a fight with the cast of "Hamilton," which then dominated the news instead of the Trump University settlement.

Pick your battles. Donald Trump selects carefully. California does not.

The court said, "Having determined that the border barrier projects were authorized under section 102(a), we have little trouble concluding that the environmental claims were also properly dismissed. The Secretary has waived the legal requirements that California and the environmental groups allege DHS violated…we lack jurisdiction to consider any argument challenging the waivers themselves."

But this was just a three-member panel of the Ninth. California likely will appeal to the full court.

We shall see how this plays out.

But the wall is endangering one species -- alienus illegali -- which is an invasive species.

Posted by Don Surber at 2/12/2019


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## RabzonKhan

As expected, Trump caved and signed $1.3 billion spending bill, which is similar to the one he refused to sign last year in December, but now he has started even more dangerous drama, the “stable genius” has declared a national emergency to build his BS wall.

Nancy Pelosi has already issued a warning to gutless Republicans poised to support Trump’s decision to declare a national emergency at the border, saying that the next Democratic president could do the same on guns.

Trump claims there is a crisis at the border, the data suggest otherwise. Majority of illegals in the US are who came to the country legally and then overstayed their visas, not crossed the border illegally. And according to US custom and border protection statistics majority of narcotics enters through US port of entry, not through the border illegally.

Trump doesn’t give a damn about the long-term consequences of his actions, it’s all about winning by hook or crook.



Nilgiri said:


> Why dont you actually wait and see what happens


I like to set the record straight.



> remember all the stuff you posted expecting 100% a grand Hillary win?


Well, who could have thought a Bozo will lose the popular vote by nearly 3 million and still end up in the White House? 



nahtanbob said:


> i can never complain Trump is boring


We all have our likes and dislikes.

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## Nilgiri

@RabzonKhan whatever happened to:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/02/politics/pelosi-nbc-nothing-wall/index.html

*Pelosi says Democrats will give 'nothing for the wall'*

i.e ZILCH...nada...ZERO 

Yet gives 1.4 billion for wall in the bill directly (and reneges on her promise to her progressive "human shit on the streets of san francisco is A-OK" base).

Then Trump bypasses her anyway LOL....and gonna win on it whatever 9th circuit (dem court) throws his way....as proven with the travel ban in SCOTUS (with one more constitutionalist judge added since, the one dems tried "believe all women" with and now hypocritically silent about it for Virginia drama). All timed well with 2020 election fervour as dems keep moving further and further left to try "out do" trump in posturing.

The real conversation thread is here btw:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/trum...ree-billions-for-border.602105/#post-11174011

You should add your two cents there  ...and tell all the folks there why ORANGE MAN BAD when it comes to something so common sense as having a wall on the border with mexico. 

@VCheng @Hamartia Antidote @Desert Fox @OsmanAli98



RabzonKhan said:


> Well, who could have thought a Bozo will lose the popular vote by nearly 3 million and still end up in the White House?



California illegal voters STRONK! Get a license at DMV and yer good to go to cast ballot!

_"No, no. Nothing for the wall," Pelosi replied. "We're talking about border security."
"We can go through this all back and forth -- no," Pelosi added. "How many more times can we say no? Nothing for the wall."_

= 1.4 billion bucks in the end AND egg on face anyway

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> You should add your two cents there  ...and tell all the folks there why ORANGE MAN BAD when it comes to something so common sense as having a wall on the border with mexico.
> 
> @VCheng



This is just the beginning of the acrimony for the next two years.


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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> This is just the beginning of the acrimony for the next two years.



I think its going to last far longer than that tbh.

This is an issue the traditional cold war era democrats were in favour of big time, front, left and centre (protecting labour unions by cutting down on illegals undercutting wages).

But like the pre WW2 KKK stuff (when it comes to civil rights movement)....gotta put a "hood" over all of that and embrace the traditional country club republican "open borders = cheap labour yaaaay!" position (of course laundered as to not be "waissssist" in todays projectioneering of virtue signalling in the voter plantations).

Its funny how Trump fits into the early Joe Biden mold nearly to a T lol. But democrats just want people to forget all of that or ignore it in the haze of intersectional, socialist posturing today.

Like with anything when a spoiled brat starts grabbing more of another's political pie for itself (thinking it can get away with it and solely determine the full colour, shape and scope of the pies to be made in future)....it will inevitably throw a tantrum when you start grabbing back what it took for granted. The republicans were too tighty-whitey snooty snob types to realise that during the post-reagan era/haze....but Trump has made them revisit and relook it big time (look at these rust belt types, they dont care about your moral posturing and gimmicking, they care about JOBS and SECURITY that they have to deal with day in day out, not you sitting pretty with the dems that have joined you and have left them behind but leaving an opportunity for you by their posturing to still be with them and taken them for "granted")....or simply perish in the end.

This beyond anything and everything else will be the Trump presidency (all 8 years of it, and it will likely crystallize on this more and more with time even after it, esp given the free gifts dems keep throwing his way).....an exposure of what the democrats are and how they went all in with the alinsky playbook...and the time it will take for them to mend their ways and become more balanced again (by leaving their gated elite complexes and actually try becoming working class again), if they can even do that.

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## RabzonKhan

*An emergency of the moment may set precedent for the ages *
Fred Barbash, Ellen Nakashima

*The Constitution is filled with ambiguities. But it has a few commands the framers wanted crystal clear. The president is commander in chief. Supreme Court justices have life terms.*

*And, it states, “No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law.”*

Article I, section 9, clause 7 *is constitutional bedrock, popularly known as “the power of the purse.” James Madison called it “a weapon” arming “the immediate representatives of the people” against the sweeping powers of the president.*

But it’s been weakened over the years, often with the collusion of Congress, which enacts flexible spending laws, and by the courts, in their silence.

President Trump’s declaration of a national emergency to build a wall on the southern border “shines the brightest of lights on how much power Congress has given away,” tweeted Jack Goldsmith, a Harvard Law School professor and former assistant attorney general under President George W. Bush, “and how much extraordinary power presidents have amassed.”

*Trump invoked both coequal branches Friday, citing the National Emergencies Act passed by Congress in 1976 in support of spending more money on a wall than Congress chose to provide. At the same time, he predicted that the question of his power to do so will inevitably rest with the Supreme Court.*

A historic decision, then, may be approaching. Despite at least 58 emergency declarations since 1976, the high court has yet to confront the issues raised by them and the laws 
authorizing them.

*Wherever the court lands will make history: If it strikes down Trump’s action or upholds it, the justices will redefine presidential power; if it refuses to consider the merits of the challenges, deciding instead that it is a “political question,” the court could foreclose challenges against future presidents who go even further.*

The long-term importance of this case deeply worries even some conservatives who believe Trump is acting constitutionally.

“Frustrated with Washington, President Trump believes he has no choice but to take this action today,” Kay Coles James, president of the Heritage Foundation, said in a statement Friday. “While it is strictly constitutional . . . this creates a dangerous precedent for future administrations.”

In 2011, the Heritage Foundation’s “guidance for lawmakers” told them flatly that their power of the purse means presidents “can’t spend what you don’t approve.”

With promises of lawsuits Friday from the state of California, the American Civil Liberties Union, the leadership of the House and many others, clashes are imminent. If the courts say they don’t have standing to sue, which is possible, next in line would be landowners of property the government tries to take for the wall.

Litigants will muster at least several lines of attack, lawyers said Friday.

*They will challenge the constitutionality of Trump’s actions, citing Madison’s “weapon.” “The power of the purse is the most important checking and balancing tool that the Congress holds with respect to the separation of powers,” said Peter Shane, a law professor at Ohio State University.*

*The framework for a constitutional challenge will be the Supreme Court landmark ruling on presidential power, the 1952 decision in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, which struck down President Harry S. Truman’s seizure of American steel plants. “Youngstown,” as lawyers call it, will be “the most famous Supreme Court case in Washington for the next couple of months,” said Rep. Jamie B. Raskin (D-Md.) *

Under the Youngstown test, a president who exercises power “incompatible with the expressed or implied will of Congress” is in trouble. His power is at “the lowest ebb,” Justice Robert Jackson wrote in a legendary concurrence in the case. With Trump repeatedly saying the emergency arose because Congress would not pay for his wall, he may be in the ebbing zone.

But the federal courts try to avoid constitutional issues when they can.

*So another line of attack will be the legitimacy of the emergency Trump declared. As a chorus of legal experts tweeted Friday, Trump didn’t help his case by declaring in the Rose Garden at the White House that “I didn’t need to do this . . . I just want to do it faster.”*

*“Whatever a national emergency may be, that’s not it,” tweeted former acting U.S. solicitor general Neal Katyal. “That quote is going right in the lawsuit.”*

Finally, litigants will challenge Trump’s use of the specific laws he said he is using to come up with the money.

Among them, for example, is a law granting the president “emergency military construction authority.” It applies to a situation “that requires the use of the armed forces,” permitting the Pentagon to “undertake military construction projects . . . not otherwise authorized by law that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces.”

“There is no emergency that justifies the use of the military,” said Sam Berger, a former senior lawyer at the Office of Management and Budget and the vice president of the liberal-leaning Center for American Progress.

And even if there was, he said, the construction would have to be necessary to support the military.

In the end, if Trump loses, it may be a deeply conservative principle that does it: the sanctity of private property.

*Much of the land he would need to build the wall is in private hands, and “the president can’t take private property to build something” without the permission of Congress, said Robert Turner, a conservative lawyer and member of the Federalist Society. The president, he believes, is on shaky legal ground.*

“My sense is this is going to be a hard fight for the president,” he said. “I can’t say I’m certain he’s going to lose. But it would surprise me if he wins.” *Source*




Nilgiri said:


> @RabzonKhan whatever happened to:
> https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/02/politics/pelosi-nbc-nothing-wall/index.html
> *Pelosi says Democrats will give 'nothing for the wall'*
> i.e ZILCH...nada...ZERO
> 
> Yet gives 1.4 billion for wall in the bill directly (and reneges on her promise to her progressive "human shit on the streets of san francisco is A-OK" base).


Actually Pelosi did exactly what she said, “nothing for the wall” zilch… nada.. zero. 

Trump got almost the same amount for the fence, but not the wall, that he had rejected in December last year:

*Last December’s bill that Trump rejected:*

As some Republicans grumbled that Trump caved, McConnell lashed out at Democrats for failing to give Trump any of the $5 billion that he wanted for the wall. The bill keeps funding at current levels, $1.3 billion, for border security and fencing, but not for the wall. *Source*

*The new bill that Trump just signed two days ago:*

In addition to funding for roughly a quarter of the government, the bill includes $1.375 billion for barriers along the U.S.-Mexico border including 55 miles of fencing. *Source*



> California illegal voters STRONK! Get a license at DMV and yer good to go to cast ballot!


Come on now, you are just repeating Trump’s accusations, of course, without any proof.


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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> Come on now, you are just repeating Trump’s accusations, of course, without any proof.



@Nilgiri 's posts are typical of people taking sides before due process has been completed. Let this one play out in the courts first, I say.

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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> Actually Pelosi did exactly what she said, “nothing for the wall” zilch… nada.. zero.
> 
> Trump got almost the same amount for the fence, but not the wall, that he had rejected in December last year:



Wall and fence is literally the same thing dude. Its a physical barrier. Piglosi said no money for it (physical barrier - call it what you want as Trump said to her long time back)...and now funded it...breaking her promise.

It will start the ball rolling while the court stuff goes on till SCOTUS gives the all clear. Pretty sure we all know kavanaugh is a safe vote now compared to kennedy....again thanks to democrat hypocrisy (added even more by virginia now....seems that boil gonna keep festering for dems a good long time now).



VCheng said:


> @Nilgiri 's posts are typical of people taking sides before due process has been completed. Let this one play out in the courts first, I say.



LOL, tell me how do you bring charges, trial and conviction against an entire rigged state apparatus that has gone all in to push its voter rolls with illegals? 

Sanctuary cities are clearly illegal too from federal standpoint....but it would involve full RICO charges against the democraps of california (and democrap party more largely). It just won't happen because there are too many battles trump admin has already taken on that need to play out first.

Don't worry though, after the 2020 election win and 2021 redistricting....things are going to get very painful for the democraps. Nothing past their utter destruction for their outright treason is going to be enough.


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> LOL, tell me how do you bring charges, trial and conviction against an entire rigged state apparatus that has gone all in to push its voter rolls with illegals?
> 
> Sanctuary cities are clearly illegal too from federal standpoint....but it would involve full RICO charges against the democraps of california (and democrap party more largely). It just won't happen because there are too many battles trump admin has already taken on that need to play out first.
> 
> Don't worry though, after the 2020 election win and 2021 redistricting....things are going to get very painful for the democraps. Nothing past their utter destruction for their outright treason is going to be enough.



Like I said, I am going to let this one play out in the courts first.


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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> Like I said, I am going to let this one play out in the courts first.



Which one?

That part of convo was about illegals on the voter rolls of california. Nothing has been brought to the courts about that (or how illegal it is to get put on voter registration database by simply getting a DMV license, not to mention how illegal it is to give an illegal a govt ID in first place).

Like I said, Republicans simply know the battle lies in the rust belt and swing state suburbia (i.e bypass the states that democraps have rigged thanks to Reagan's stupid trust in them). Far left democraps dig their own graves doing what they are doing. Trump got them triggered perfectly, its great!

As for the border wall funding now (through appropriating other funds)....its clear Trump will win, just like he won on the Travel ban (which you said the exact same thing for - let it play out). The language is very clear in the relevant statutes....there is a reason for the 90% overturn rate the 9th circuit has at (that too far more liberal in the past) SCOTUS.

90% is great betting odds. Hey if it was more like 50/50 I would start to say the same as you (and it really ought to be as close to 0% as possible)....but its not...its 90-10. Basically they suck royally at "due process"...and it will be great to see them get slapped yet again. Worthless activist judges....symptom of the greater disease of democrap party.


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Which one?
> 
> That part of convo was about illegals on the voter rolls of california. Nothing has been brought to the courts about that (or how illegal it is to get put on voter registration database by simply getting a DMV license, not to mention how illegal it is to give an illegal a govt ID in first place).
> 
> Like I said, Republicans simply know the battle lies in the rust belt and swing state suburbia (i.e bypass the states that democraps have rigged thanks to Reagan's stupid trust in them). Far left democraps dig their own graves doing what they are doing. Trump got them triggered perfectly, its great!
> 
> As for the border wall funding now (through appropriating other funds)....its clear Trump will win, just like he won on the Travel ban (which you said the exact same thing for - let it play out). The language is very clear in the relevant statutes....there is a reason for the 90% overturn rate the 9th circuit has at (that too far more liberal in the past) SCOTUS.
> 
> 90% is great betting odds. Hey if it was more like 50/50 I would start to say the same as you (and it really ought to be as close to 0% as possible)....but its not...its 90-10. Basically they suck royally at "due process"...and it will be great to see them get slapped yet again. Worthless activist judges....symptom of the greater disease of democrap party.



I meant letting the next two years play out in the courts. I like due process in all matters.

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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> I meant letting the next two years play out in the courts. I like due process in all matters.



There are certain things that simply will not be brought to the courts in first place (in those 2 years). Doesn't mean that stuff is not happening and is highly illegal.

If everything gets brought to and aired out in the courts fairly, sure. But when it involves entire political parties (of a 2 party state with massive cooperation between those two parties...i.e a mono-party monolith), it wont (certainly not in one or even 2 terms of a presidency)....you need to start a process right from the base and invest long term inertia into it....which needs actual consolidated political opponents. That is only vaguely taking shape now.

So its wrong to look in a time frame of "2 years" as though everything is some be-all end-all for every issue of deepset political corruption and treason in the US.

As for specific thing like executive statute interpretation....well we can simply look at the record and precendent on such matters of the specific court in question. The go-to court for dems (filled with their activist judges) is the 9th circuit. When their grand body of decisions is given to SCOTUS, SCOTUS overturns their decisions at a rate of around 90 PERCENT. What does that tell any layman? That court is doing its job fairly? So its pretty clear Trump will get this won and done just like the travel ban, where the exact same noises and drama were made (and it ended with a complete smackdown and whimper).


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> So its pretty clear Trump will get this won and done just like the travel ban, where the exact same noises and drama were made (and it ended with a complete smackdown and whimper).



Let us see what happens first.


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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> Let us see what happens first.



Yep I see the 90% overturning rate of 9th circuit by SCOTUS and wish I always had those clear defined odds on everything I stick my neck out for


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Yep I see the 90% overturning rate of 9th circuit by SCOTUS and wish I always had those clear defined odds on everything I stick my neck out for



It's okay. The system of checks and balances still works. I am sure we can talk about this in the coming months.


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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> It's okay. The system of checks and balances still works. I am sure we can talk about this in the coming months.



Sure...so how did the travel ban stuff go?  I think we promised to come around to that at some point but we never did a post-analysis . It's a good starting point for this in the interim while we wait for this new border wall drama in the courts stuff.


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Sure...so how did the travel ban stuff go?  I think we promised to come around to that at some point but we never did a post-analysis . It's a good starting point for this in the interim while we wait for this new border wall drama in the courts stuff.



The travel ban was implemented in its modified form to meet the requirements of the law. I had no problem with that at all.

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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> The travel ban was implemented in its modified form to meet the requirements of the law. I had no problem with that at all.



Didnt say you did. But the people running to the 9th circuit back then (like they are now yet again) had a clear major problem with it (yet ignored how the whole thing started under the Obama admin, just like the border detentions of children etc)....they wanted it fully done away with (and promised everyone they would get their way against the evil orangutan)....and we all know what happened in the end.....and why they gone even more batsh!t crazy since lol.


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## RabzonKhan

Bernie is back, announces 2020 White House bid. And raised nearly $ 6 million in 24 hours.


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> Bernie is back, announces 2020 White House bid. And raised nearly $ 6 million in 24 hours.
> 
> 
> View attachment 540724



Too easy to beat him now with this:






Good Bernie, just sit there all angry and glum (and likely worried) while other democrats (incl pelosi) stand to applaud 

"BREAD LINES ARE GOOD!" .....*lives in millions of dollars houses*

The kind of super credible "lives by example" "socialist" we all have come to identify with the left (way before the downstream current "in vogue" lunacy of "green new deal" + *crazy glaring eyes of demon-rage*...and "I listened to snoop dawg in college in the 1980s while smoking pot"...DUHHHHH *awkward laugh* and "I have native american ancestry I used to get into harvard, because I have high cheekbones....*swigs beer bottle awkwardly*)

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/bernie-sanders-slams-billionaires-gets-reminded-he-owns-3-houses

Going for the jugular is just so easy with hypocrite turds. But best to let them fight themselves a bit (or preferably a whole lot) for even more juicy material to use later....especially with the "already ran and lost" types with nice juicy bigger chip on shoulder now 

@Desert Fox @VCheng @Hamartia Antidote @Metanoia @Psychic @KAL-EL @OsmanAli98

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## Yankee-stani

Will Diversity be the Death of the Democrats?

Both of America’s great national parties are coalitions.

But it is the Democratic Party that never ceases to celebrate diversity — racial, religious, ethnic, cultural — as its own and as America’s “greatest strength.”

Understandably so, for the party is home to a multitude of minorities.

It is the domain of the LGBTQ movement. In presidential elections, Democrats win 70 percent of Hispanics, Jews and Asian-Americans, and 90 percent of African-Americans.

Yet, lately, the party seems to be careening into a virtual war of all against all.

Democratic Governor Ralph Northam and Attorney General Mark Herring of Virginia have both admitted to using blackface.

Northam imitated Michael Jackson’s “moonwalk” in a 1984 dance contest. Herring, in 1980 at the University of Virginia, did a blackface impression of rap icon Kurtis Blow, who called it ugly and degrading.

The resignations of both have been demanded by Virginia’s black leadership. Northam and Herring, however, are defying the demands.

Meanwhile, Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax, only the second black ever to win statewide office, has been charged by two women with rape. And the demands for his resignation are growing louder and most insistent.

Yet if Fairfax is forced out, while the white governor and white attorney general get a pass, black leaders warn, all hell is going to bust loose.

The Democratic Party of Virginia was already convulsed over all the monuments, statues, schools, parks, highways and streets that bear the names of slave owners, Confederate soldiers and 19th- and 20th-century segregationists.

Across the Potomac, Ilhan Omar, the first ever Somali-American to serve in Congress, and a Muslim, ignited a firestorm last week when she gave this as the reason Congress faithfully votes the AIPAC line on Israel: “It’s all about the Benjamins, baby.”

The reference is to $100 bills, on which Ben Franklin’s face appears. The line is a rap lyric from a 1997 song by Puff Daddy.

Omar was saying Congress has been bought.

The House Democratic leadership demanded and got an apology from Omar for her use of an “anti-Semitic trope.”

But Omar now his company in the House. Palestinian-American Rep. Rashida Tlaib, also a Muslim, shares and airs her views on Israel.

The problem for Democrats?

These provocateurs are magnets for media. They speak for a rising minority in the party that regards Israel as an apartheid state that oppresses Palestinians. And they find an echo among millennials on the party’s socialist left.

As Thursday’s Washington Post headlined, this Omar flap “could forecast a Democratic divide on Israel.”

Indeed, it may have already done so.

When Senate Republicans proposed legislation to allow states to refuse to hire individuals or contractors who support the BDS movement to boycott Israel, Senators Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders all voted no.

The four say they are supporting freedom of speech to condemn Israeli policy. But to others it looks like a progressive Democratic blessing for those urging that Israel be treated the same way Ian Smith’s Rhodesia and apartheid South Africa were treated.

Within the Democratic coalition, Asian-Americans are now in conflict with blacks and Hispanics over admission policies at elite schools and universities.

Asian-Americans are “overrepresented” where students are admitted based on test scores or entrance exams. Black and Hispanic leaders are demanding that student bodies, regardless of test scores, look like the community. And if this requires affirmative action based upon race and ethnicity, so be it.

The LBGTQ community is now in court demanding all the rights and protections of the civil rights laws of the ’60s. This will bring gay groups into constant collisions with religious communities that adhere to traditional moral views on homosexuality.

The minorities of color in the Democratic coalition are growing, as the base of the GOP is aging and shrinking. But these minorities are also becoming more rivalrous, competitive and demanding. And the further they move left, they more they move outside the American mainstream.

The pledge of allegiance this writer recited every day of school, reads: “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

Today, the antifa left desecrates the flag, as liberals praise NFL players who “take a knee” during the national anthem. Militant migrants march under Mexican flags to protest border security policies. The “republic” has been replaced by “our democracy.”

We are no longer “one nation … indivisible” We have almost ceased talking to one another. As for “under God,” added in 1954, Democrats at their Charlotte Convention sought to have God excised from the party platform.

“Liberty” has been supplanted by diversity, “justice” by equality.

But as Revolutionary France, Stalin’s USSR, Mao’s China, Castro’s Cuba and Hugo Chavez’s Venezuela proved, regimes that promise utopian and egalitarian societies inevitably reveal themselves to be undertakers of freedom, America’s cause.

Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of “Nixon’s White House Wars: The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided America Forever.”

Copyright 2019 Creators.com.

The Growing Anti-Semitism Scam

In his novel _1984_ George Orwell invented the expression “newspeak” to describe the ambiguous or deliberately misleading use of language to make political propaganda and narrow the “thought options” of those who are on the receiving end. In the context of today’s political discourse, or what passes for the same, it would be interesting to know what George would think of the saturation use of “anti-Semitism” as something like a tactical discussion stopper, employed to end all dispute while also condemning those accused of the crime as somehow outside the pale, monsters who are consigned forever to derision and obscurity.

The Israelis and, to be sure, many diaspora Jews know exactly how the expression has been weaponized. Former Israeli Minister Shulamit Aloni explained how it is done“Anti-Semitic”…”its a trick, we always use it.”

If one were to read the U.S. mainstream media, reflective as it nearly always is of a certain institutional Jewish viewpoint, one would think that there has been a dramatic increase in anti-Semitism worldwide, but that claim is incorrect. What has been taking place is not hatred of Jews but rather a confluence of two factors. First is the undeniable fact that Israel has been behaving particularly badly, even by its admittedly low standards. Its slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza has been unusually observable in spite of media attempts to avoid mentioning it, plus its support of terrorists in Syria and attacks on that country have also raised questions about the intentions of the kleptocratic regime in Tel Aviv, which is currently pushing for an attack on Iran. That all means that the perception of Israel, which boasts that it is the exclusively Jewish state, inevitably raises questions about the international Jewish community that provides much of its support. But the shift in perception is driven by Israeli behavior, not by Jews as an ethnicity or a religion.

Second, the alleged increase in anti-Semitic incidents is largely fueled by how those incidents are defined. Israel and its friends have worked hard to broaden the parameters of the discussion, making any criticism of Israel or its activities either a hate crime or _ipso facto_ an anti-Semitic incident. The U.S. State Department’s working definition of anti-Semitism includes “…the targeting of the state of Israel” and it warns that anti-Semitism is a criminal offense. Recent legislation in Washington and also in Europe has criminalized hitherto legal and non-violent efforts to pressure Israel regarding its inhumanity vis-à-vis the Palestinians. Legitimate criticism of Israel thereby becomes both anti-Semitism and criminal, increasing the count of so-called anti-Semitic incidents. That means that the numbers inevitably go up, providing fodder to validate a repressive response.

One might add that Hollywood, the mainstream media and academia have contributed to the allegations regarding surging anti-Semitism, relentlessly unleashing a torrent of material rooting out alleged anti-Semites and so-called holocaust deniers, while simultaneously heaping praise on Israel and its achievements. Professor of Holocaust Studies Deborah Lipstadt has written a book _Anti-Semitism: Here and Now_ about what she regards as the new anti-Semitism, supporting her belief that it is getting markedly worse in both Europe and the U.S. There is also a movie about her confrontation with holocaust critic David Irving called _Denial_. All of the media exposure of so-called anti-Semitism has a political objective, whether intended or not, which is to insulate Israel itself from any criticism and to create for all Jews the status of perpetual victimhood which permits many in the diaspora to unflinchingly support a foreign country against the interests of the nations where they were born, raised and made their fortunes. That is called dual loyalty and, in spite of frequent denials from Israel-apologists, it clearly exists for many American Jews who are passionate about the Jewish state, including members of the Trump Administration Jason Greenblatt, David Friedman and Jared Kushner.

In the past week, a newly elected member of congress has been derided, shunned and then forced to both recant and apologize for having said something that is manifestly true: that Jewish money corrupts the American political system to favor Israel. The controversy erupted after House minority leader Republican Kevin McCarthy said he would initiate investigations of two Muslim congresswomen, Rashida Tlaib of Michigan and Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, over their criticisms of Israel. McCarthy called for the two to be denounced by the Democratic Party as anti-Semites after Tlaib had said that the sponsors of recent legislation intended to benefit Israel by limiting free speech “…forgot what country they represent. This is the U.S. where boycotting is a right and part of our historical fight for freedom and equality. Maybe a refresher on our U.S. Constitution is in order, then get back to opening up our government instead of taking our rights away.”

Indeed, Tlaib had a point as the Congressional Israel boosters have long since forgotten that they are supposed to uphold the Constitution of the United States while also promoting the interests of their constituents, not those of a country seven thousand miles away. Glenn Greenwald of the Intercept responded to the news of the McCarthy threat with a tweet “It’s stunning how much time US political leaders spend defending a foreign nation even if it means attacking free speech rights of Americans.” Ilhan Omar then tweeted her own pithy rejoinder to Greenwald on Sunday February 10th: “It’s all about the Benjamins, baby!” which was in reference to the Founder Benjamin Franklin’s portrait on hundred-dollar bills. Her comment was almost immediately interpreted as meaning that she was accusing McCarthy of being bought by Jews. She followed up on a question about who was doing the buying she tweeted “AIPAC,” an elaboration that unleashed something like an anti-Semitism shit storm in her direction.

It was manufactured outrage, with political leaders from both parties latching on to a media frenzy to score points against each other. Even though it is perfectly legitimate for a Congresswoman on the Foreign Affairs Committee to challenge what AIPAC does and where its money comes from, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi complained that Omar’s “use of anti-Semitic tropes and prejudicial accusations about Israel’s supporters” was “deeply offensive.” Chelsea Clinton accused Omar of “trafficking in anti-Semitism.” President Donald Trump, who has admitted that his Mideast policy is intended to serve Israeli rather than U.S. interests, also jumped in, saying “I think she should either resign from congress or she should certainly resign from the House Foreign Affairs Committee.”

Ilhan Omar quickly understood that she had touched a live wire, surrendered, and recanted. She apologized by Monday afternoon, 18 hours after her original tweet, saying “Anti-Semitism is real and I am grateful for Jewish allies and colleagues who are educating me on the painful history of anti-Semitic tropes. My intention is never to offend my constituents or Jewish Americans as a whole. We have to always be willing to step back and think through criticism, just as I expect people to hear me when others attack me for my identity. This is why I unequivocally apologize.” But she also bravely wrote “At the same time, I reaffirm the problematic role of lobbyists in our politics, whether it be AIPAC, the NRA or the fossil fuel industry. It’s gone on too long and we must be willing to address it.”

Pelosi approved of the apology. Senator Amy Klobuchar, a Democrat from Minnesota who is running for president in 2020, chimed in to make sure that everyone knew how much she loves Israel, saying “I’m glad she apologized. That was the right thing to do. There is just no room for those kinds of words. I think Israel is our beacon of democracy. I’ve been a strong supporter of Israel and that will never change.”

Two days later, a motion sponsored by Congressman Lee Zeldin of New York passed by a 424 to 0 vote. It was specifically intended to serve as a rebuke to Omar. It stated that “it is in the national security interest of the United States to combat anti-Semitism around the world because…there has been a significant amount of anti-Semitic and anti-Israel hatred that must be most strongly condemned.”

Congressional votes professing love for Israel notwithstanding, the fact is that there is a massive, generously funded effort to corrupt America’s government in favor of Israel. It is euphemistically called the Israel Lobby even though it is overwhelmingly Jewish and it boasts fairly openly of its power when talking with its closest friends about how its money influences the decisions made on Capitol Hill and in the White House. Its combined budget exceeds one billion dollars per year and it includes lobbying powerhouses like the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) which alone had $229 million in income in 2017, supporting more than 200 employees. It exists only to promote Israeli interests on Capitol Hill and throughout the United States with an army of lobbyists and its activities include using questionably legal all expenses paid “orientation” trips to Israel for all new congressmen and spouses.

McCarthy and the other stooges in Congress deliberately sought to frame the argument in terms of Ilhan Omar having claimed that he personally was receiving money from pro-Israel sources and that money influenced his voting. Well, the fact is that such activity does take place and was documented three years ago by the respected Foreign Policy Journal, which published a piece entitled “The Best Congress AIPAC can Buy” as well as more recently in an _al-Jazeera_ investigative expose using a concealed camera.

And Kevin McCarthy does indeed receive money from Israel PACs – $33,200 in 2018. The amount individual congressmen receive is dependent on their actual or potential value to Israel. Completely corrupt and enthusiastically pro-Israel Senator Robert Menendez of New Jersey received $548,507 in 2018. In the House, Beto O’Rourke of Texas received $226,690. The numbers do not include individual contributions of under $200, which are encouraged by AIPAC and can be considerable. In general, congressmen currently receive over $23,000 on averagefrom the major pro-Israel organizations while Senators get $77,000.

But, of course, direct donations of money are not the whole story. If a congressman is unfriendly to Israel, money moves in the other direction, towards funding an opponent when re-election is coming up. Former Rep. Brian Bard has observed that “Any member of Congress knows that AIPAC is associated indirectly with significant amounts of campaign spending if you’re with them, and significant amounts against you if you’re not with them.” Lara Friedman, who has worked on the Hill for 15 years on Israel/Palestine, notes how congressmen and staffs of “both parties told me over and over that they agreed with me but didn’t dare say so publicly for fear of repercussions from AIPAC.”

A good example of how it all worked involves one honest congressman, Walter Jones of North Carolina, who recently passed away. In 2014, “Wall Street billionaires, financial industry lobbyists, and neoconservative hawks” tried to unseat Jones by bankrolling his primary opponent. The “dark money” intended to defeat him came from a PAC called “The Emergency Committee for Israel,” headed by leading neoconservative Bill Kristol. Jones’ war views, including avoiding a war with Iran, were clearly perceived as anti-Israel.

And one should also consider contributions directly to the political parties. Israeli/U.S. dual nationals Sheldon Adelson and Haim Saban are the largest single donors to the GOP and to the Democrats, having contributed $82 million and $8,780,000respectively in the 2016 presidential campaign. Both have indicated openly that Israel is their top priority.

If they have demonstrated fealty to Israel while in office, many Congressmen also find that loyalty pays off after retirement from government with richly remunerated second careers in Jewish dominated industries, like financial services or the media. And there are hundreds of Jewish organizations that contribute to Israel as charities, even though the money frequently goes to fund illegal activity, including the settlements. Money also is used to buy newspapers and media outlets which then adhere to a pro-Israel line, or, where that does not work, to buy advertising that is conditional on being friendly to Israel. So the bottom line is indeed “the Benjamins” and the corruption that they buy.

Karen Pollock of the Holocaust Education Trust said in January that “One person questioning the truth of the Holocaust is one too many.” That is nonsense. Any, and all, historical events should be questioned regularly, a principle that is particular true regarding developments that carry a lot of emotional baggage. The Israel Lobby would have all Americans believe that any criticism of Israel is motivated by historic hatred of Jews and is therefore anti-Semitism. Don’t believe it. When the AIPAC crowd screams that linking Jews and money is a classic anti-Semitic trope respond by pointing out that Jews and money are very much in play in the corruption of congress and the media over Israel. Terrible things are being done in the Middle East in the name of Jews and of Israel and it all comes down to those Benjamins and the silence they buy by accusing all critics of anti-Semitism. Just recall what the Israeli minister admitted, “It’s a trick, we always use it.”

← Is Tulsi Gabbard for Real?

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## Solomon2

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1098344503717416961
_Solomon2 comment:_ at first I thought it was a mistake, then I thought I'd die laughing. Best political joke of the year!

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## Nilgiri

Solomon2 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1098344503717416961
> _Solomon2 comment:_ at first I thought it was a mistake, then I thought I'd die laughing. Best political joke of the year!



Bwahahahaahaha....

@VCheng @Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL @RabzonKhan @TruthSeeker

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## RabzonKhan

*Congress could block big chunk of Trump’s emergency wall money*

*Full funds likely to be unavailable from the sources president has identified*

*John M. Donnelly *

More than one-third of the money President Donald Trump wants to redirect from other federal programs to build a border barrier is likely to be unavailable from the sources he has identified.

*As a result, it may be difficult for the president to circumvent Congress, even if a resolution disapproving of his “emergency” moves is never enacted.*

Trump announced Feb. 15 that, using emergency powers, he wants to divert as much as $6.7 billion from other programs to finance the construction of barriers along the U.S.-Mexico border. That includes $3.6 billion from unspent military construction money, $2.5 billion in unspent Pentagon counterdrug funds and $600 million from a Treasury Department asset forfeiture account.

*But the Defense Department has told lawmakers that only $85 million remains unspent in the counterdrug account, a House Appropriations spokesman said Thursday.*

The Pentagon is planning to ask Congress for authority to reprogram more than $2.4 billion from other military programs into the counterdrug account in order to then take it right back out and move it to the wall project.

“The Department would need to reprogram additional funding into the account to reach the up to $2.5 billion that may be required for border security support,” said Christopher Sherwood, a Defense Department spokesman.

*However, a reprogramming request must be approved by both Republicans and Democrats on the four authorizing and appropriating panels that oversee the Pentagon.*

*Such approval in this case is all but certain to fail. All it would take is one chairman or ranking member to say no.*

*On Thursday, one of those lawmakers, Indiana Democrat Peter J. Visclosky, chairman of the House Defense Appropriations Subcommittee, said in a statement that he would turn down any request to reprogram military money to pay for a border wall.*

“I am adamantly opposed to the use of any funds provided by Congress to the Department of Defense for the unauthorized construction of a wall on the Southwest border,” Visclosky said. “I and the other members of the House Appropriations Committee will carefully examine each element of the President’s proposal and the serious jurisdictional and Constitutional concerns that it raises.”

*The $2.5 billion comprises about 37 percent of the money Trump wants to redirect to the border initiative and away from its congressionally approved purposes.*

Trump could still find other ways to pay for the project against Congress’ wishes, including adding to the amount of military construction money he will tap. According to a House Appropriations Committee spreadsheet, there appears to be some billions of dollars in previously appropriated but unobligated military construction money that could be available to be redirected from the projects the military and Congress approved.

The Pentagon has yet to announce which military construction projects it will tap to bankroll this year’s installment of wall money.

The additional border barriers could eventually cost an estimated $25 billion.

Some on Capitol Hill say they are bracing for another possibility: that the president could move money as he wishes in the Pentagon budget and just disregard the traditional requirement that a president must get congressional approval for shifting sizable amounts of money from one account to another. Source: *Roll Call*


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## Nilgiri

@Joe Shearer @VCheng @TruthSeeker

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## TruthSeeker

I haven't heard Walter Williams on the radio for a few years. He used to guest host for Rush Limbaugh sometimes. He is a delightful economist in that he explains the way the free market works as the most democratic of systems. Your dollars are your votes. If you are free to vote (spend) and have decent information or personal savvy, the highest quality products and most efficient providers will be rewarded by your votes; and both you and they will prosper!

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## Nilgiri

TruthSeeker said:


> I haven't heard Walter Williams on the radio for a few years. He used to guest host for Rush Limbaugh sometimes. He is a delightful economist in that he explains the way the free market works as the most democratic of systems. Your dollars are your votes. If you are free to vote (spend) and have decent information or personal savvy, the highest quality products and most efficient providers will be rewarded by your votes; and both you and they will prosper!



It is why I am in favour of free markets established (after a revolution/independence) and allowed to permeate for some time (to erode any chasms of prejudice etc).... rather than too much govt "social" intervention/correction right off the bat first thing (which tends to divide the population long term).


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> It is why I am in favour of free markets established (after a revolution/independence) and allowed to permeate for some time (to erode any chasms of prejudice etc).... rather than too much govt "social" intervention/correction right off the bat first thing (which tends to divide the population long term).



Correct, but certain things need some government support: infrastructure, health, education.

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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> Correct, but certain things need some government support: infrastructure, health, education.



Yes where there is high public (merit) good, the argument can be made. 

We obviously make one for defense, courts, basic administration etc. 

As far as possible the argued "market failure" must be given to every individual as direct as possible (voucher for health, education and insurance pool for those etc). This is why I am not opposed to concept of UBI either (as long as it replaces the several layers of assistance/interventionist headache now and costs much less). All of this should be focused only on basic poverty and basic equivalent social care in health +education.

What I am totally against is concept of wealth redistribution to address "inequality" past (aboslute) poverty. Relative poverty is always slippery slope argument and always is a vote buy in a democracy. It is not and never has been a true social goal (meriting social intervention)....mostly because the people engaged in this agenda are the worst representatives for it...always....esp compared to hard data of the free market.

None have practiced what they preached and set any kind of example of themselves.

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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> What I am totally against is concept of wealth redistribution to address "inequality" past (aboslute) poverty. Relative poverty is always slippery slope argument and always is a vote buy in a democracy. It is not and never has been a true social goal (meriting social intervention)....mostly because the people engaged in this agenda are the worst representatives for it...always....esp compared to hard data of the free market.



I agree with the above 100%.

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## RabzonKhan

*Political cartoons *
*







*

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## RabzonKhan

*Republican Silence On Actual Voter Fraud Is Deafening*

*After a decade of using the alleged problem of "voter fraud" to justify things like Voter ID Laws, Republicans are remarkably silent in the fact of an actual example of fraud and election tampering.*
DOUG MATACONIS · 

After years of decrying “voter fraud” as justification for Voter ID Laws, Republicans have been strangely silent when it comes to one of the most extensive examples of actual voter and election fraud in recent memory:

RALEIGH, N.C. — Republican politicians across the country have for years railed against the threat of voter fraud. Some have made unproven claims about how rampant it has become in order to pass voter ID laws and open sweeping investigations. The sanctity of the vote, they have said, must be protected at all costs.

*But when a hard-fought congressional election in North Carolina — in which a Republican candidate appeared to narrowly beat his Democratic opponent — was overturned this week because of election fraud by a Republican political operative, the party was measured, and largely muted, in its response.*

The state party chairman, Robin Hayes, issued a statement after officials ordered a new election calling the affair “a tremendously difficult situation for all involved.” National Republicans have been mostly mum. President Trump, who has made election fraud one of the hallmarks of his administration, was quiet on Twitter, although on Friday, facing reporters at the Oval Office, he condemned fraud — “all of it, and that includes North Carolina.”

Mark Harris, the Republican nominee, had eked out a 905-vote lead over Dan McCready. But the North Carolina Board of Elections refused to certify Mr. Harris as the winner and opened an investigation into irregularities. This week, the five-member board, made up of Republicans and Democrats, convened an evidentiary hearing in Raleigh at which witnesses described a voter-turnout effort that relied on the rogue collection of absentee ballots.

In several hours of testimony on Thursday, after his campaign acknowledged that it had withheld damning records from the board, Mr. Harris denied wrongdoing but also appeared to mislead regulators. He then surprised everyone by abandoning his claim to the Ninth Congressional District seat, which covers part of Charlotte and much of southeastern North Carolina.

Witnesses detailed how people working for a Harris campaign operative, L. McCrae Dowless Jr., had filled out parts of some absentee ballots and improperly collected others. *On Friday, Lorrin Freeman, the district attorney in Wake County, said she could seek charges within weeks against Mr. Dowless and some of the people he hired.*

“Obviously, it’s within the province of the grand jury as to whether they will return indictments,” Ms. Freeman said. “But do I anticipate there will be a criminal prosecution going forward? I do.”

*State Republicans, who over the past few years have tightened voting laws and had fought to preserve Mr. Harris’s victory, were far less vociferous in denouncing voter fraud than they have been in the past.

That stands in marked contrast to 2016, when the state’s Republicans filed many complaints and claimed for a month that Roy Cooper, the Democrat who was elected governor that year, should not be seated because rampant fraud had enabled his victory. The charge proved baseless.*

Much like North Carolina Republicans, Republicans on the national level have been strangely silent as this story has unfolded since election day. This has been true regardless of the fact that it has become apparent that the Republican candidate, Mark Harris, was involved in the entire scheme to some extent or at least had reason to think it was taking place. 

The person principally most likely knowingly conspired with someone who worked with the campaign as an outside consultant and who is the one who carried out the actions that clearly led to votes for Harris’s opponent being lost, buried, destroyed, or changed to votes for Harris. It’s possible, I suppose, that Harris was completely unaware of all of this but from the testimony during the hearing held before the state elections board, it seems quite clear that a candidate and campaign would almost have to have been willfully blind to not be aware of what was going on. While that falls short of actual conspiracy with the underlying bad actor, it is a strong indication that the candidate didn’t care how he won, even if it involved nefarious means such as those undertaken in this case.

As for national Republicans, the silence is equally telling. For the better part of the past decade, Republicans have talked about the alleged problem of in-person voter fraud, specifically meaning instances in which a person seeks to vote under the name of someone else or to vote multiple times in the same election. The only solution for such fraud, they claim, is to require that every voter obtain some form of identification which must be presented at their polling place before they’re allowed to vote. As numerous studies have shown, though, this form of voter fraud is so exceedingly rare as to be non-existent or at least not prevalent enough to justify passage of Voter ID Laws that have been shown to have a discriminatory impact on poor and minority voters such as those in Texas, Wisconsin, and North Carolina, all three of which have seen their Voter ID laws struck down by Federal Courts. 

*President Trump has picked up on these themes with his continued and unsupported claims that millions of people voted illegally in the 2016 and 2018 elections. While Trump’s voters and the GOP eat this red meat right up, there’s no evidence to support the truth behind any of the allegations.*

Now we have an example of real, proven, voter fraud that seems to have clearly had an impact on the outcome that was significant enough for the North Carolina Elections Board to order a new election, something that has never happened before in the context of an election to Federal office. Where are the Republicans who have spent a decade or more decrying voter fraud? *Where’s the President of the United States who finds the time to tweet about virtually everything else in the news and who has advanced baseless and unsupported claims about voter fraud in each of the past two elections? They are silent, of course, and that should tell you a lot about what they really think and what the real motivation behind their push for Voter ID laws is all about.*

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## RabzonKhan

*House votes to terminate Trump's national emergency declaration for border wall *

The House voted Tuesday to pass a resolution to terminate President Donald Trump's national emergency proclamation to build the border wall, presenting their opening salvo in a battle that's expected to drag into the next presidential campaign, both in the courts and on Capitol Hill. 

*The bill passed 245-182, with just 13 Republicans joining 232 Democrats to approve the measure.*

The measure now heads to the Senate, where its prospects are less certain. Even if it does pass the upper chamber, Trump has vowed to veto the measure. 

Given Tuesday's tally in the House, it's unlikely Congress would have the two-thirds majorities needed to override a veto. 

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told reporters that Trump's "power grab usurps" the legislative branch's constitutional responsibilities and "fundamentally violates the balance of power envisioned by our founders

"We would be delinquent in our duties if we did not resist, if we did not fight back to overturn the president's declaration. To not do that would be to abandon our own responsibilities. We do not intend to do that," Pelosi, D-Calif., said Monday. "What the president is saying about the border is mythology. It's not reality, but this is not about the wall. Whatever you think about the wall, think about the Constitution of the United States." Read more


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## RabzonKhan

What a disgrace, Trump believes North Korea’s brutal dictator, just like he believed Putin over our own intelligence agencies. The clown thinks Kim did not know that his bloodsucking special police were torturing American student Otto Warmbier. 

Yeah, America first, my foot.

"He felt badly about it. He felt very badly," Trump said after his failed waste of time summit with Kim, adding they discussed Warmbier’s death privately. "He tells me that he didn't know about it and I will take him at his word."



*'I don't believe he knew about it.' Trump defends Kim Jong Un on Otto Warmbier's death*

John Fritze, USA TODAY Published 3:54 a.m. ET Feb. 28, 2019

WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump said Thursday he did not hold Kim Jong Un responsible for the death of Otto Warmbier, the U.S. college student who died after being imprisoned in North Korea. 

In 2016, Warmbier, then 21 years old, was arrested and accused of committing a "hostile act" as he tried to leave North Korea. He was sent home to his parents in Ohio in June 2017 in a coma with a massive brain injury and died afterward.

Trump, who abruptly ended a Vietnam summit with Kim on nuclear disarmament, was asked by a reporter about the discussions he had with the North Korean leader on Warmbier's death.

"I don't believe he knew about it," Trump said of Kim. "He tells me that he didn't know about it and I will take him at his word." *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

*Blue states band together looking to bypass Electoral College*






*Michael Burke 19 hrs ago*

A plan to circumvent the Electoral College is gaining momentum among blue states after Democrats suffered two crushing defeats in presidential elections over the past two decades.

The plan has been given new impetus after Colorado Gov. Jared Polis (D) said this week that he will sign a bill to have his state become the 12th state along with the District of Columbia to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.


*The states making up the compact, which already includes New York, Illinois and all the New England states except for New Hampshire, would commit to awarding their electoral votes to whoever wins the popular vote nationally, regardless of the results in the Electoral College.*

*So far, these states, with Colorado, add up to 181 electoral votes, well short of the 270 needed to ascend to the White House.*

Advocates are doubtful that enough states can join the compact for it to take effect by 2020, but hold hope of garnering enough support by 2024, as a handful of states like New Mexico also consider the measure, though proponents acknowledge the path to get to 270 will be far from easy.

Colorado state Rep. Emily Sirota (D), one of the sponsors of that state's legislation, said she sees the compact "as a way to ensure that every vote is counted equally" and force candidates to campaign nationwide instead of targeting a few battleground states that can deliver success in the electoral math.

*"If we had presidential candidates campaigning across the country, instead of a handful of swing states, you'd see a lot more participation from across the country and I think that is good and healthy for our electoral process," Sirota told The Hill.*

*The renewed push comes after 2016 Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton lost the election that year despite winning the popular vote, the second time it has happened since the turn of the century.*

*The defeat was especially crushing to Democrats after a similar loss suffered by former Vice President Al Gore in 2000.*

All states that are now part of the compact voted for Gore in 2000 and Clinton in 2016.

Colorado voted for Clinton last time but picked former President George W. Bush in 2000.

*Critics of the Electoral College system have long argued it incentivizes candidates to target swing states with a bounty of electoral votes, while discouraging turnout by voters in states that are reliably red or blue.*

Opponents of the current electoral system also say that electing a president through a popular vote could improve how presidents govern in office.

John Koza, the chairman of the National Popular Vote, a group that advocates for the compact, said the Electoral College "distorts" public policy by incentivizing presidents to cater to key swing states while in office, particularly in their first term.

"It's not only unfair that the second place candidate can win, it's also not good for the office of president or the country," he said.

"When you're sitting in the White House ... you say, 'What states do I have to win and what do I have to do to win them?' That's just not a good way for public policy to be set," Koza added.

Advocates of the compact are holding up hope that more steps will follow Colorado in joining the compact, which was first introduced in academic research papers as a way to effectively get rid of the electoral college system without going through the daunting process of a constitutional amendment.

*The most promising is New Mexico, which has already passed a popular vote bill through one chamber and has a Democratic Governor.*

*Should it pass, the state would add 5 electoral votes to the compact, bringing the total to 186.*

Meanwhile, legislators in 16 states have introduced bills this session seeking to join the compact, according to National Popular Vote.

Of those, Democratically-controlled Delaware, Maine, Nevada and Oregon look the most promising, with a total tally of 20 additional votes that could bring the total to 206 - though even there, the prospects are far from guaranteed.

Oregon state Rep. Diego Hernandez (D), a sponsor of the state's popular vote bill, said there may not be enough momentum in the current legislative session to pass.

"We have so many big issues we're tackling this session, when it comes to housing and the environment and education and revenue reform, that although the conversation's happening, I'm not sure that it's the top priority in terms of the collective agenda," Hernandez said.

But the prospect of passage in some of the other 16 states where a popular vote bill has been introduced look far less certain given many have split powers or are deep-red, like South Carolina or Mississippi.

*Republicans are mostly opposed to any measure to derail the Electoral College system, seeing as unconstitutional.*

Opponents of using the popular vote to elect presidents have long argued it would result in candidates catering to large cities and large states to rack up votes, which tend to have a bigger share of Democratic voters, ignoring smaller or rural areas.

Rose Pugliese, a county commissioner in Colorado, said in a tweet she had petitioned the Secretary of State not to award the state's votes to the winner of the popular vote, saying such a move "allows California and New York to decide Colorado's votes for President."

Nonetheless advocates of the compact remain hopeful.

Koza, the National Popular Vote chairman, said garnering the necessary support by 2020 was "theoretically" possible, but believed it was more likely by 2024.

*"You never know how a bandwagon can get rolling," he said. "So at the moment, I couldn't name states that would get us there in time for 2020, although there's theoretically ways to do it. It seems perfectly plausible that we should get there by 2024." Source*

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## RabzonKhan

Now, this is an actual case of election fraud, not a false Trumpian claim.

Five fraudsters were indicted for ballot tampering, and so far, two have been arrested.

The states election board has announced new election dates. The primary election will take place on May 14 and after that September 10 will either be the date of run-off primary election, or the general election.









*5 were indicted in alleged ballot fraud scheme. A week later, only 2 have been arrested*
*
By Carli Brosseau, The News & Observer (Raleigh, N.C.) 12 hrs ago *


RALEIGH, N.C. - In the week since a Wake County grand jury indicted five people on charges related to an alleged ballot-harvesting scheme in Bladen County, just two of the accused have been arrested.

The State Bureau of Investigation arrested the alleged ringleader, Leslie McCrae Dowless, a 63-year-old political operative and elected official, last week. He made his initial appearance in court Tuesday, Wake County District Attorney Lorrin Freeman said.

Dowless had been scheduled to appear in court March 25, but he received incorrect information from a magistrate and showed up weeks early, Freeman said. Since Dowless and his attorney, Cynthia Singletary, had driven hours from Bladen County, Freeman decided to go ahead with the hearing, she said.

Dowless faces three counts of felony obstruction of justice, two counts of conspiracy to commit obstruction of justice and two counts of possession of an absentee ballot. Under North Carolina law, a voter's mail-in absentee ballot may be handled by others only in very limited circumstances.

The charges relate to the 2016 general election and 2018 primary. Charges stemming from the 2018 general election are expected to follow.

*In 2018, Dowless' most high-profile client was the Republican congressional candidate in the state's 9th district, Mark Harris. The North Carolina State Board of Elections recently held a hearing about absentee ballot irregularities in that race and ordered a new election after about four days of testimony. The board's unanimous vote came shortly after Harris conceded that a new election was warranted. Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

*The Making of the Fox News White House*
*Fox News has always been partisan. But has it 
become propaganda?

By Jane Mayer
*
In January, during the longest government shutdown in America’s history, President Donald Trump rode in a motorcade through Hidalgo County, Texas, eventually stopping on a grassy bluff overlooking the Rio Grande. The White House wanted to dramatize what Trump was portraying as a national emergency: the need to build a wall along the Mexican border. The presence of armored vehicles, bales of confiscated marijuana, and federal agents in flak jackets underscored the message.

*But the photo op dramatized something else about the Administration. After members of the press pool got out of vans and headed over to where the President was about to speak, they noticed that Sean Hannity, the Fox News host, was already on location. Unlike them, he hadn’t been confined by the Secret Service, and was mingling with Administration officials, at one point hugging Kirstjen Nielsen, the Secretary of Homeland Security.* The pool report noted that Hannity was seen “huddling” with the White House communications director, Bill Shine. After the photo op, Hannity had an exclusive on-air interview with Trump. Politico later reported that it was Hannity’s seventh interview with the President, and Fox’s forty-second. Since then, Trump has given Fox two more. He has granted only ten to the three other main television networks combined, and none to CNN, which he denounces as “fake news.”

*Hannity was treated in Texas like a member of the Administration because he virtually is one. The same can be said of Fox’s chairman, Rupert Murdoch. Fox has long been a bane of liberals, but in the past two years many people who watch the network closely, including some Fox alumni, say that it has evolved into something that hasn’t existed before in the United States. *Nicole Hemmer, an assistant professor of Presidential studies at the University of Virginia’s Miller Center and the author of “Messengers of the Right,” a history of the conservative media’s impact on American politics, says of Fox, “It’s the closest we’ve come to having state TV.”

*Hemmer argues that Fox—which, as the most watched cable news network, generates about $2.7 billion a year for its parent company, 21st Century Fox—acts as a force multiplier for Trump, solidifying his hold over the Republican Party and intensifying his support. “Fox is not just taking the temperature of the base—it’s raising the temperature,” she says. “It’s a radicalization model.” For both Trump and Fox, “fear is a business strategy—it keeps people watching.” As the President has been beset by scandals, congressional hearings, and even talk of impeachment, Fox has been both his shield and his sword.* The White House and Fox interact so seamlessly that it can be hard to determine, during a particular news cycle, which one is following the other’s lead. All day long, Trump retweets claims made on the network; his press secretary, Sarah Sanders, has largely stopped holding press conferences, but she has made some thirty appearances on such shows as “Fox & Friends” and “Hannity.” Trump, Hemmer says, has “almost become a programmer.”

Fox’s defenders view such criticism as unfounded and politically biased. Ken LaCorte, who was in senior management at Fox News for nearly twenty years, until 2016, and recently started his own news service, told me, “The people at Fox said the same thing about the press and Obama.” Fox’s public-relations department offers numerous examples of its reporters and talk-show hosts challenging the Administration. Chris Wallace, a tough-minded and ecumenical interviewer, recently grilled Stephen Miller, a senior Trump adviser, on the need for a border wall, given that virtually all drugs seized at the border are discovered at checkpoints. Trump is not the first President to have a favorite media organization; James Madison and Andrew Jackson were each boosted by partisan newspapers. But many people who have watched and worked with Fox over the years, including some leading conservatives, regard Fox’s deepening Trump orthodoxy with alarm. Bill Kristol, who was a paid contributor to Fox News until 2012 and is a prominent Never Trumper, said of the network, “It’s changed a lot. Before, it was conservative, but it wasn’t crazy. Now it’s just 
*propaganda.” Joe Peyronnin, a professor of journalism at N.Y.U., was an early president of Fox News, in the mid-nineties. “I’ve never seen anything like it before,” he says of Fox. “It’s as if the President had his own press organization. It’s not healthy.”*

*Nothing has formalized the partnership between Fox and Trump more than the appointment, in July, 2018, of Bill Shine, the former co-president of Fox News, as director of communications and deputy chief of staff at the White House. Kristol says of Shine, “When I first met him, he was producing Hannity’s show at Fox, and the two were incredibly close.” Both come from white working-class families on Long Island, and they are so close to each other’s children that they are referred to as “Uncle Bill” and “Uncle Sean.” *Another former colleague says, “They spend their vacations together.” A third recalls, “I was rarely in Shine’s office when Sean didn’t call. And I was in Shine’s office a lot. They talked all the time—many times a day.”

Shine led Fox News’ programming division for a dozen years, overseeing the morning and evening opinion shows, which collectively get the biggest ratings and define the network’s conservative brand. Straight news was not within his purview. In July, 2016, Roger Ailes, the co-founder and C.E.O. of Fox, was fired in the face of numerous allegations of chronic sexual harassment, and Shine became co-president. But within a year he, too, had been forced out, amid a second wave of sexual-harassment allegations, some of them against Fox’s biggest star at the time, Bill O’Reilly. Shine wasn’t personally accused of sexual harassment, but several lawsuits named him as complicit in a workplace culture of coverups, payoffs, and victim intimidation.

Shine, who has denied any wrongdoing, has kept a low profile at the White House, and rejects interview requests, including one from this magazine. But Kristol contends that Shine’s White House appointment is a scandal. “It’s been wildly under-covered,” he said. “It’s astounding that Shine—the guy who covered up Ailes’s horrible behavior—is the deputy chief of staff!” 

The Washington _Post_ columnist Jennifer Rubin, another conservative Never Trumper, used to appear on the network, but wouldn’t do so now. “Fox was begun as a good-faith effort to counter bias, but it’s morphed into something that is not even news,” she says. “It’s simply a mouthpiece for the President, repeating what the President says, no matter how false or contradictory.” The feedback loop is so strong, she notes, that Trump “will even pick up an error made by Fox,” as when he promoted on Twitter a bogus Fox story claiming that South Africa was “seizing land from white farmers.” Rubin told me, “It’s funny that Bill Shine went over to the White House. He could have stayed in his old job. The only difference is payroll.”

*With Shine, the Fox and White House payrolls actually do overlap. The Hollywood Reporter obtained financial-disclosure forms revealing that Fox has been paying Shine millions of dollars since he joined the Administration.* Last year, he collected the first half of a seven-million-dollar bonus that he was owed after resigning from Fox; this year, he will collect the remainder. That sum is in addition to an $8.4-million severance payment that he received upon leaving the network. In December, four Democratic senators sent a letter to the White House counsel’s office, demanding proof that Fox’s payments to Shine don’t violate federal ethics and conflict-of-interest statutes.

*Shine is only the most recent Fox News alumnus to join the Trump Administration. Among others, Trump appointed the former Fox contributor Ben Carson to be his Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, the former Fox commentator John Bolton to be his national-security adviser, and the former Fox commentator K. T. McFarland to be his deputy national-security adviser. (McFarland resigned after four months.) Trump recently picked the former Fox News anchor Heather Nauert to be the Ambassador to the United Nations, but she soon withdrew herself from consideration, reportedly because her nanny, an immigrant, lacked a work permit.* The White House door swings both ways: Hope Hicks, Shine’s predecessor in the communications job, is now slated to be the top public-relations officer at Fox Corporation. Several others who have left the Trump White House, including Sebastian Gorka, a former adviser on national security, regularly appear on Fox. Gorka recently insisted, on Fox Business, that one of Trump’s biggest setbacks—retreating from the shutdown without securing border-wall funds—was actually a “masterstroke.”

*Other former Fox News celebrities have practically become part of the Trump family. Kimberly Guilfoyle, a former co-host of “The Five,” left Fox in July; she is now working on Trump’s reëlection campaign and dating Donald Trump, Jr. *(Guilfoyle left the network mid-contract, after a former Fox employee threatened to sue the network for harassment and accused Guilfoyle of sharing lewd images, among other misconduct; Fox and the former employee reached a multimillion-dollar settlement. A lawyer who represents Guilfoyle said that “any suggestion” that she “engaged in misconduct at Fox is patently false.”) *Pete Hegseth, the Fox News host, and Lou Dobbs, the Fox Business host, have each been patched into Oval Office meetings, by speakerphone, to offer policy advice. Sean Hannity has told colleagues that he speaks to the President virtually every night, after his show ends, at 10 p.m. According to the Washington Post, White House advisers have taken to calling Hannity the Shadow Chief of Staff.* A Republican political expert who has a paid contract with Fox News told me that Hannity has essentially become a “West Wing adviser,” attributing this development, in part, to the “utter breakdown of any normal decision-making in the White House.” The expert added, “The place has gone off the rails. There is no ordinary policy-development system.” As a result, he said, Fox’s on-air personalities “are filling the vacuum.”

*Axios recently reported that sixty per cent of Trump’s day is spent in unstructured “executive time,” much of it filled by television. Charlie Black, a longtime Republican lobbyist in Washington, whose former firm, Black, Manafort & Stone, advised Trump in the eighties and nineties, told me, “Trump gets up and watches ‘Fox & Friends’ and thinks these are his friends. He thinks anything on Fox is friendly. But the problem is he gets unvetted ideas.” Trump has told confidants that he has ranked the loyalty of many reporters, on a scale of 1 to 10. Bret Baier, Fox News’ chief political anchor, is a 6; Hannity a solid 10. Steve Doocy, the co-host of “Fox & Friends,” is so adoring that Trump gives him a 12.*

It is hardly unprecedented for American media barons to go beyond theirpages to try to influence the course of politics. At the 1960 Democratic National Convention, Philip Graham, the co-owner of the Washington _Post_, helped broker a deal in which John F. Kennedy selected Lyndon Johnson as his running mate. But now a direct pipeline has been established between the Oval Office and the office of Rupert Murdoch, the Australian-born billionaire who founded News Corp and 21st Century Fox. Multiple sources told me that Murdoch and Trump often talk on the phone. A former aide to Trump, who has been in the Oval Office when Murdoch has called, says, “It’s two men who’ve known each other for a very long time having frank conversations. The President certainly doesn’t kowtow to Murdoch, but Murdoch also doesn’t to him. He speaks to him the same way he would have five years ago.” *According to Michael Wolff’s 2018 book, “Fire and Fury,” Murdoch derided Trump as “a fucking idiot” after a conversation about immigration. The aide says Trump knows that Murdoch has denigrated him behind his back, but “it doesn’t seem to matter” that much. Several sources confirmed to me that Murdoch regales friends with Trump’s latest inanities. But Murdoch, arguably the most powerful media mogul in the world, is an invaluable ally to any politician. Having Murdoch’s—and Fox’s—support is essential for Trump, the aide says: “It’s very important for the base.”* *Read more*



*




Sean Hannity recently joined Trump at a rally. Greta Van Susteren, a former Fox host, calls the move an “egregious mistake.”
*


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## RabzonKhan

*2020 rankings: It's now or never for Democrats who want to be president*

Analysis by Chris Cillizza and Harry Enten, CNN

(This is the ninth edition of our monthly power rankings of Democrats most likely to get their party's presidential nomination in 2020.)
(CNN)Since Monday, four candidates have made their final go/no-go decisions about the 2020 Democratic presidential race.

Washington Gov. Jay Inslee is in. Former Attorney General Eric Holder, former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Oregon Sen. Jeff Merkley are out.
And the 2020 election is only 607 days away!

The rapid-fire decisions made by that quartet of candidates speaks to how quickly the 2020 race has gone from a standstill to a dead sprint. The battle for key early-state operatives is on. The fight for online dollars is joined. And any candidate not in the race by now runs the risk of getting lapped.

There are two exceptions to that rule: Joe Biden and Beto O'Rourke.
Biden remains the poll frontrunner due to his residual name ID from eight years as vice president and four decades in the Senate. He keeps inching ever closer to the race -- he said last month in Delaware that the "most important people in my life want me to run" -- but hasn't officially jumped in yet. At this point, Biden's official announcement feels like a formality. He's running, the only question is _how_ he will run.
While O'Rourke is on the other end of the political experience spectrum from Biden, he, like the former VP, can afford to wait a little while longer before making his plans plain because of his national celebrity. O'Rourke became the Democratic golden child during the 2018 campaign and even though he didn't beat Republican Sen. Ted Cruz in Texas, the shine apparently has not worn off. O'Rourke, like Biden, seems to be an all-but-announced candidate. The question is whether the energy he built behind his Senate candidacy in Texas can be replicated -- or even approximated -- at the presidential level.
Below, our rankings of the 10 candidates most likely to wind up as the Democratic presidential nominee against Donald Trump in November 2020.






OUT: Sherrod Brown: The Ohio senator was originally ranked at No. 8 on this list before he announced Thursday that he will not run for president in 2020. The updated rankings are below.

10. *Jay Inslee:* With Brown out, the Washington governor is in. Inslee recently announced for president and made clear that he is running as, basically, a one-issue candidate -- seeking to draw attention to what he believes is the urgent crisis of climate change. Inslee has an intriguing resume -- he spent time in Congress before being elected governor -- but it's not yet clear if his climate change focus will be enough to distinguish him in the already crowded field. _(Previous ranking: Unranked)_

9. *Kirsten Gillibrand:* The case for the junior senator from New York remains the same as it's always been. She's got the most anti-Trump record of any senator and is running in a primary in which voters strongly dislike President Donald Trump. We're also of the belief that Democrats want to nominate a woman (e.g. 91% of Democrats said they would be comfortable or enthusiastic about nominating a woman in the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll). Gillibrand, though, just hasn't caught on yet. Her poll numbers for the Democratic nomination remain in the low single digits. Charges of flip-flopping dog Gillibrand's campaign. It's not clear that Democrats have any interest in her given they have a wide variety of choices. _(Previous ranking: 9)_

8. *Julian Castro: *Of the major announced candidates, Castro, the former mayor of San Antonio, is the only major Latino candidate in the race. That's not insignificant, given the rising political power of the Hispanic community -- particularly in Democratic politics -- and the centrality of the immigration issue in Trump's presidency. (Castro is already seeking to organize Hispanic voters in Iowa in advance of the state's first-in-the-nation caucuses.) Castro's argument that he is the strongest candidate against Trump revolves around the notion that he can win Florida, Arizona and Texas due to his appeal to Hispanics. His is an intriguing candidacy though, realistically, he's likely running to be VP rather than for the top spot. _(Previous ranking: 8)_

7. *Elizabeth Warren: *When the Massachusetts senator, finally, officially entered the race last month, there just wasn't all that much buzz around her candidacy. She raised around $300,000 in her first day as a candidate -- a total that paled in comparison to the stunning nearly $6 million Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) collected in his first 24 hours in the race. And since Warren has been running, she's struggled to draw much attention. That may -- emphasis on may -- be part of Warren's plan, given how badly she botched her attempt to put questions about her Native American heritage behind her last fall: Lay low and wait for things to settle._ (Previous ranking: 4)_

6. *Cory Booker:* New Jersey's junior senator polled as well in February as O'Rourke. He may have more potential support in the endorsement primary than all but Harris. Booker's play as a healer sets him apart from the rest of the Democratic field and may actually be what Democratic voters want. His launch generated more Google searches than all but Harris and Sanders. Democratic voters are more enthusiastic or comfortable nominating an African-American than someone matching any other attribute. Yet, Booker hasn't caught fire. He remains well in back in polls of folks like Biden, Harris and Sanders, even though he's been running for over a month. We continue to ponder whether charges of being a neoliberal will hurt him, and whether his passion sometimes comes across as overdramatic. _(Previous ranking: 5)_

5. *Amy Klobuchar:* Klobuchar's announcement in a near-blizzard was epic -- and very, very memorable. Unfortunately for her, the early days of her candidacy have been defined by a series of stories about her bad treatment of staff. (Also, she ate a salad with a comb once.) Assuming that story line has run its course -- and there haven't been any flare-ups in the last few weeks -- then the Minnesota senator should be fine going forward. Her focus on grit as her strongest attribute and her Midwestern roots should play well in Iowa where she must perform well to have a serious chance at the nomination. _(Previous ranking: 7)_

4. *Beto O'Rourke:* We know an announcement of some type regarding a presidential run is coming soon from the man simply known as "Beto." We wonder whether O'Rourke will be able to recapture the excitement on display during his Senate bid. His appeal was not ideologically based, which could help him unite the different parts of the Democratic Party. O'Rourke demonstrated a unique ability to raise a lot of money in 2018. Since then though, things have cooled off. He's dropped from an average of 13% in national polling in December to only 5% in February. Other candidates have entered the race and have commanded a lot of media attention. Until he runs, we're in a holding pattern. We recognize that O'Rourke has shown ability to connect with Democrats, but we want to see if he can do it again. _(Previous ranking: 3)_

3. *Bernie Sanders:* We've been notably skeptical of Sanders in these rankings -- driven by a belief that the success of his 2016 campaign was fueled, in large part, by the fact that Hillary Clinton ignored him and never laid a glove on him. While we still think there is truth to that argument, and that 2020 is a totally different race for Sanders, it's impossible to ignore the grassroots energy that exists for him. One example: Sanders raised almost $6 million in the first 24 hours of his candidacy, an absolutely eye-popping sum. Sanders has what other candidates all want (and need): Organic grassroots energy for his campaign. _(Previous ranking: 6)
_
2. *Joe Biden:* No one confounds us more than the former vice president. Biden continues to lead national polling and has strength in all the early states. Polling indicates that many of the qualities voters are looking for fit well with Biden's resume. He can probably pick up a number of endorsements when he declares. Importantly, there are more and more signs Biden will actually run. Biden, though, has weaknesses. He has a long record that can easily be attacked. Democratic voters are not enthusiastic about nominating someone over the age of 75. He could also be stale from not having run a campaign for a long time. We wonder how much of his polling advantage will evaporate once he is no longer just President Barack Obama's vice president and he is his own entity. (Previous ranking: 2)

1. *Kamala Harris:* The California senator has held down the top spot in our rankings for five straight months now. She continues to run a practically flawless campaign, a hard thing to do for someone who is doing this for the first time. The only potential hurdle for Harris is the nominating calendar; if she doesn't win, place or show in Iowa or New Hampshire, does that make her less viable in her must-win state of South Carolina? If she can make it that far, the map gets friendlier, with the massive treasure trove of California's delegates waiting in early March. (Previous ranking: 1)


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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

Trump’s two years trade war is a Yuge failure. Told ya, he’s a big mouth loser.

Remember his tweet, “trade wars are good, and easy to win”. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/969525362580484098
According to the commerce Department, the U.S. trade deficit grows to 10-year high under Trump. Trade deficit grew to *$621 billion* in 2018, its highest level since 2008. *Link*


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## RabzonKhan

Trump promised during the campaign that he would hire the best people for the country. 










* New York Charges Paul Manafort With 16 Crimes. If He’s Convicted, Trump Can’t Pardon Him. *
WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM 2 hrs ago 


Paul J. Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, has been charged in New York with mortgage fraud and more than a dozen other state felonies, the Manhattan district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance, Jr., said Wednesday, an effort to ensure he will still face prison time if Mr. Trump pardons him for his federal crimes.

*News of the indictment came shortly after Mr. Manafort was sentenced to his second federal prison term in two weeks; he now faces a combined sentence of more than seven years for tax and bank fraud and conspiracy in two related cases brought by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III.
*
The president has broad power to issue pardons for federal crimes, but has no such authority in state cases.

While Mr. Trump has not said he intends to pardon his former campaign chairman, he has often spoken of his power to pardon and has defended Mr. Manafort on a number of occasions, calling him a “brave man.”

The new state charges against Mr. Manafort are contained in a 16-count indictment that alleges a yearlong scheme in which he falsified business records to obtain millions of dollars in loans, Mr. Vance said in a news release after the federal sentencing.

“No one is beyond the law in New York,” he said, adding that the investigation by the prosecutors in his office had “yielded serious criminal charges for which the defendant has not been held accountable.” 

The indictment grew out of an investigation that began in 2017, when the Manhattan prosecutors began examining loans Mr. Manafort received from two banks.

Last week, a grand jury hearing evidence in the case voted to charge Mr. Manafort with residential mortgage fraud, conspiracy, falsifying business records and other charges. A lawyer for Mr. Manafort could not immediately be reached for comment.

Earlier this month, Mr. Manafort, 69, was sentenced in Virginia to nearly four years in prison on one of his two federal cases, far less time than prosecutors had requested; on Wednesday, he was sentenced in Washington, D.C., to serve an additional three and a half years. He could face up to 25 years in New York state prison if convicted of the most serious charges in the new indictment, which is expected to be announced later on Wednesday.

The loans were also the subject of Mr. Mueller’s investigation and were the basis for some of the counts in the federal indictment that led to Mr. Manafort’s conviction last year in Virginia. But the Manhattan prosecutors deferred their inquiry in order not to interfere with Mr. Mueller’s larger investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election.
*Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

*Beto O'Rourke announces campaign for president*






========================================

Democrat led House has already rejected Trump’s (fake) emergency, as the U.S. Senate prepares to vote for Trump’s border wall emergency later today, it’s test time for the Republican Senators, will they stand for America’s constitutional checks and balances or will they support the wannabe thug.


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## RabzonKhan

Bravo, 12 Republican Senators joined Democrats to block Trump’s declaration of fake national emergency. What a rebuke, Trump lost again. I am loving it!






* Senate votes to reject Trump’s emergency declaration, setting up president’s first veto
*
 
Erica Werner, Seung Min Kim, John Wagner 

The Senate passed a resolution Thursday to overturn President Trump’s declaration of a national emergency at the U.S.-Mexico border, with 12 Republicans joining all Democrats to deliver a bipartisan rebuke to the president.

The disapproval resolution passed the House last month, so the 59-41 Senate vote will send the measure to the Trump’s desk. Trump has promised to use the first veto of his presidency to strike it down, and Congress does not have the votes to override the veto.

“VETO!” Trump tweeted moments after the vote.

Still, the Senate vote stood as a rare instance of Republicans breaking with Trump in significant numbers on an issue central to his presidency — the construction of a wall along the southern border. 

For weeks Trump had sought to frame the debate in terms of immigration, arguing that Republican senators who supported border security should back him up on the emergency declaration. But for many GOP lawmakers, it was about a bigger issue: The Constitution itself, which grants Congress — not the president -- control over government spending.

By declaring a national emergency in order to bypass Congress to get money for his wall, Trump was violating the separation of powers and setting a potentially dangerous precedent, these senators argued.

“It’s imperative for the president to honor Congress’ constitutional role,” Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) said Thursday on the Senate floor as he announced his vote in favor of the disapproval resolution. “A national emergency declaration is a tool to be used cautiously and sparingly.”

Republicans who voted with Trump and against the disapproval resolution said the president was acting within his authority under the National Emergencies Act, and taking necessary steps to address a humanitarian and drug crisis at the border that Democrats had ignored.

“There is a crisis at the border and Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer have prevented a solution,” said Sen. Cory Gardner (R-Colo.), naming the House speaker and Senate minority leader. “It should never have come to this, but in the absence of congressional action, the President did what Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer refused to do.”

Many GOP senators agonized at length before deciding how to vote, with significant numbers of them — including Portman and Gardner, who is up for re-election next year — waiting until Thursday to announce their positions.

In the end only one Republican who is up for re-election next year — Susan Collins (R-Maine) — voted for the disapproval resolution.

*In addition to Collins and Portman, the other 10 GOP senators voting for the disapproval resolution were: Lamar Alexander (Tenn.), Roy Blunt (Mo.), Mike Lee (Utah), Jerry Moran (Kan.), Lisa Murkowski (Alaska), Rand Paul (Ky.), Mitt Romney (Utah), Marco Rubio (Fla.), Patrick J. Toomey (Pa.), and Roger F. Wicker (Miss.)*. 

*Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

Since, Pelosi said on impeaching Trump: he is just not worth it.

Trump is all kisses for Pelosi, looks like the old man is really scared of impeachment. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1106250869648093187
Fox News reporter Chad Pergram reported that Trump similarly greeted Pelosi when he arrived for the event.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1106244600426049537


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## RabzonKhan

*OPINION
New Zealand shooting proves how soft Donald Trump is on right-wing terrorists
*
EJ Montini, *Arizona Republic* Published 12:54 p.m. MT March 15, 2019

*Opinion: If the New Zealand attack had been inspired and/or carried out by a jihadi militant, would Trump’s remarks would have been so nondescript?*

The gunman behind mosque shootings in New Zealand that left 49 people dead on Friday was a white nationalist terrorist.

You wouldn’t know that from the sympathy tweet offered by President Donald Trump, which read:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1106520743855251456

*Do you think if this attack had been inspired and/or carried out by a jihadi militant that Trump’s remarks would have been so nondescript?*

Not a chance.

*Trump has gone easy since Charlottesville*

But ever since the president spoke of “both sides” being to blame in Charlottesville, knowing that white supremacist demonstrators were chanting racist and anti-Semitic slogans, Trump seems to have gone out of the way to be soft on right wing terror.

*The Center for Strategic and International Studies reports that in 2017 there were 31 attacks by right-wing extremists. According to the Anti-Defamation League, right-wing extremists were responsible for 71 percent of extremist-related murders from 2008 to 2017. Islamic extremists were said to be responsible for 26 percent.*

*America may recently have avoided a massacre like the one in New Zealand when federal authorities arrested Christopher Hasson, a white nationalist with apparent plans to murder Democratic politicians and what he believed to be anti-Trump journalists.*

*The right-wing threat is growing*

Daniel Byman of the Brookings Institution, a public policy think tank, wrote in part after the New Zealand attack, “In the United States, right-wing violence has grown, with Jews and Muslims in particular being targets. The Trump administration has cut programs focusing on right-wing groups even amid a growing threat. Given the recent decline in jihadi violence in the United States, transferring some resources is appropriate.”

Ya think?

Jacinda Ardern, New Zealand’s Prime Minister, spoke of the attack in her country the way Trump – as the supposed leader of the free world – should be talking.

*She said, “Many of those who will have been directly affected by the shooting may be migrants to New Zealand. They may even be refugees here. They are us. The person who has perpetuated this violence against us is not.”*

*If only Trump said what Ardern did*

The White House rejected any link between the shooting and President Donald Trump. "It's outrageous to even make that connection," says the White House's director of strategic communication Mercedes Schlapp. (March 15) AP

Instead of mirroring those words, President Trump – after his non-specific condolence tweet concerning the New Zealand attack – went on twitter rants about the Obama administration and the Mueller report.

*Meantime, New Zealand’s Prime Minister Arden said, “It is clear that this can only be described as a terrorist attack … These are people who I would describe as having extremist views that have absolutely no place in New Zealand and, in fact, have no place in the world … You may have chosen us – but we utterly reject and condemn you.”*

*Damn.*

*We could use someone like that.* *Link*


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## Nilgiri

Of course everything bad that happens under the sun is Trump's fault.

I'll be back for the 2020 election to gloat about another win then (given the full fledged commie party the demonrat party seems to enjoy turning into)....keep telling everyone that cow farts are going to destroy the world in 12 years time  ...crazy eyes AOC and wild gesticulating irish idiot that thinks its latino BETA lol.....and "dad's angry at her for lieing about smoking pot and stereotyping jamaicans" Kamala and pocahauntus and the list just keeps going on.

...till then this thread is a waste of time....and this is my last reply on it till the commies + gated elite cabal + their brainwashed minions create another flood of delicious salty tears like the last time.  @Desert Fox @OsmanAli98 

Lot better stuff out there anyway....where actual conversation goes on.

Like they were hoping mueller delivered something....anything and went all in on it.......and now they got a big epic fail instead lol.

I for one am going to enjoy ATT purging CNN....its looking very likely now.

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## Desert Fox

Nilgiri said:


> Of course everything bad that happens under the sun is Trump's fault.
> 
> I'll be back for the 2020 election to gloat about another win then (given the full fledged commie party the demonrat party seems to enjoy turning into)....keep telling everyone that cow farts are going to destroy the world in 12 years time  ...crazy eyes AOC and wild gesticulating irish idiot that thinks its latino BETA lol.....and "dad's angry at her for lieing about smoking pot and stereotyping jamaicans" Kamala and pocahauntus and the list just keeps going on.
> 
> ...till then this thread is a waste of time....and this is my last reply on it till the commies + gated elite cabal + their brainwashed minions create another flood of delicious salty tears like the last time.  @Desert Fox @OsmanAli98
> 
> Lot better stuff out there anyway....where actual conversation goes on.
> 
> Like they were hoping mueller delivered something....anything and went all in on it.......and now they got a big epic fail instead lol.
> 
> I for one am going to enjoy ATT purging CNN....its looking very likely now.


Well said buddy. There is absolutely no sense of logic in the other camp. It is virtually nonexistent. Democrats are just a circus show with each clown bigger than the last one. Pretty much why I dont take part in this thread unless its nearing elections.

@OsmanAli98 @Metanoia @LeGenD @Hamartia Antidote

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## Hamartia Antidote

Desert Fox said:


> Well said buddy. There is absolutely no sense of logic in the other camp. It is virtually nonexistent. Democrats are just a circus show with each clown bigger than the last one. Pretty much why I dont take part in this thread unless its nearing elections.
> 
> @OsmanAli98 @Metanoia @LeGenD @Hamartia Antidote



Elizabeth Warren...’nuff said!

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## Hamartia Antidote

Desert Fox said:


> Well said buddy. There is absolutely no sense of logic in the other camp. It is virtually nonexistent. Democrats are just a circus show with each clown bigger than the last one. Pretty much why I dont take part in this thread unless its nearing elections.
> 
> @OsmanAli98 @Metanoia @LeGenD @Hamartia Antidote



BTW I bet the count of Liberal celebrities who actually moved to Canada is still zero.

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## Metanoia

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Elizabeth Warren...’nuff said!



Pocahontas.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Metanoia said:


> Pocahontas.



1/1024th Native American

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## Gomig-21

Let's see if there is any Republican with enough balls to step up and put this disaster of a clown of a president in his place and rock his boat into sinking. So much of the focus is on the Democrats or the liberals (better yet, the "radical Liberals lol) but not much given to a conservative who would actually be a great choice for the GOP to back up and get this idiot out of office before it's too late. There might just be that one guy in Bill Weld. Someone who is not easily intimidated by the douchebaggery and sleazy and insulting tactics of this idiot who's the current president. And as a native of Massachusetts, we know Bill Weld since he was governor and did a hell of a job here during his tenure. 

For me, this is not about parties or democrats or Liberals or Republicans, it's about the right candidate who properly represents this great country in a dignified manner and has the country's interest first and foremost in mind, not his own personal and self-aggrandizing motivation like this scum-sucking racist hog.

And for those of you who might disagree with what I say, put yourself in my position for one second and then see how you feel. When a racist pig like Donald Trump first comes out and says he's calling on a complete ban of all Muslims entering this country until they find out what the hell is going on.................followed by his disgustingly racist anecdote of general Pershing dipping his bullets in pig's blood and killing Muslims and that supposedly effectively took care of things for 17 years.............says NOTHING to support American Muslims when 50 of them are gunned down in mosques but when the Jewish people suffered the same, unfortunate fate in Pittsburgh last year, there was nothing but empathy for the Jews and Jewish people. Now, if you were a Muslim American, would any of this just blow over your head because you simply hate Democrats and Liberals and be ok with it? Well, guess what, I (along with millions of Muslim Americans) are not ok with a filthy, racist, bigot of a scumbag as the president of the United States and I truly hope he doesn't get elected for a 2nd term. We deserve MUCH MUCH MUCH better than this POS. Rant over!

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## RabzonKhan

*The difference is crystal clear!*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1106520743855251456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1106532154232766465
Let’s not forget, Trump repeatedly used to criticize Pres Obama for not using the words “radical Islamic terrorism”, he also criticized Hillary for not using the phrase during the presidential debates 2016.

As Trump stated then, “now, to solve a problem, you have to be able to state what the problem is or at least say the name”.

Looks like he forgot his own advice, because he did not condemn white racist terrorist by name or acknowledge the victims by name.


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## Nilgiri

We want "non-racist" "decent" presidents....ok here ya go...even smiling for you....probably good warm memories of the black supremacist preacher at his church too:







But naaaaah....lets not release that picture for voters to make a decision on. Lets release it AFTER he's done with 2 terms making all kinds of commie talk like "nothing you work for/do is truly owned by only you" (Marx couldn't have said it much better tbh) and outright lies like "if you like your doctor, you can keep him!"....all while IN the presidency. 

Plus I'm confused by dumbocrats neo-standards/arguments now....was the Iran nuclear deal a good or bad thing regarding helping Russia? Like why did this black racist president muffle on hot mic to Medvedev what he did? See...somethings do escape the demoncrap tried and tested policy of bleach bit for subpoenaed evidence (to go along with their voter fraud and the rest)....but only by complete accident.

Rest of your CNN talking points you two quote to each other are hillarious too....typical of people that don't actually *READ* the manifesto of the killer...but rely on the demoncrap media to feed them hand to mouth. 

Sorry, you are in complete dissonance with actual people that matter out there and reaching to larger and larger audiences (precisely because of that lieing echo chamber media)






...but you have our empathy for it....we all know people like you that shout "la-la-la-la" while putting hands to ears, because you dont like the actual truth...just "yours".

We shudder at living in such a cocoon as yours .....but we do revel at each opportunity it gets shattered.


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## RabzonKhan

*Democratic presidential candidates on CNN town hall.*

*Sen. Amy Klobuchar Directly Criticized the Dirty Political Tricks of Trump on CNN Town Hall*






*FULL CNN TOWN HALL WITH TULSI GABBARD*


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## RabzonKhan

Desert Fox said:


> Well said buddy. There is absolutely no sense of logic in the other camp. It is virtually nonexistent. Democrats are just a circus show with each clown bigger than the last one.


And this guy is a genius 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1107741187337830406

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1075454869635510273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1107702154553450496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1107734583154565121







Nilgiri said:


>


I watched the whole clip, the guy kept on saying the mainstream media is spreading false propaganda, “read the manifesto of the terrorist”, but he did not give one example of what false propaganda the media was spreading?

I did read the white racist terrorist’s manifesto. In the manifesto, he hopes to spark a “civil war in the US”. And he supported Trump as a *“symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose*”.

Isn’t that clear enough?


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## Desert Fox

RabzonKhan said:


> And this guy is a genius
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1107741187337830406
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1075454869635510273
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1107702154553450496
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1107734583154565121
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched the whole clip, the guy kept on saying the mainstream media is spreading false propaganda, “read the manifesto of the terrorist”, but he did not give one example of what false propaganda the media was spreading?
> 
> I did read the white racist terrorist’s manifesto. In the manifesto, he hopes to spark a “civil war in the US”. And he supported Trump as a *“symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose*”.
> 
> Isn’t that clear enough?


Well Rabzon, the fact that he beat Democrats in obtaining the highest office in America despite their candidate having more resources shows that they are far bigger buffoons for losing ground to him.


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## Nilgiri

RabzonKhan said:


> I watched the whole clip, the guy kept on saying the mainstream media is spreading false propaganda, “read the manifesto of the terrorist”, but he did not give one example of what false propaganda the media was spreading?



Yes you are part of the media haze.....if the media tells you someone is "right wing"....you just accept it....not even looking at the entire manifesto which reads like something AOC put out (eco-fascist and all).



RabzonKhan said:


> And he supported Trump as a *“symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose*”.



Don't put the full stop there....continue.

What would your reaction be if we put a full stop at the picture with Obummer meeting and smiling with Farrakhan?



RabzonKhan said:


> Isn’t that clear enough?



For pravda snipetting sure.

For actual facts and truth that need full context.....nope.

Its why the MSM dies more and more....and can only dbl down on what it has incestually bred into itself.

This was after all the MSM that made a huge hue and cry about David Duke endorsing Trump....which you posted here too I am sure.

But who did david duke endorse recently?

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/mar/7/david-duke-praises-rep-ilhan-omar/






Tell me when CNN and rest of the MSM covers it to 0.00001% like they did with Trump (who they conveniently ignored is linked by marriage to jews)....using exact same standard on the issue they used. 

Of course they won't....and this dbl/triple/quad standard does the job of exposing them (and dumbocrat party now) easily. 

Got some more earlier democrat people to never vote dumbocrat (in crucial swing spot too) just on the back of this one. They will be spreading the word too.

Enjoy 2020.



RabzonKhan said:


> Isn’t that clear enough?



Also answer me this....is Bernie Sanders responsible for the baseball game shooter?

You can't use one standard in one case, and another one for another.

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## RabzonKhan

Now, without any delay Atty Gen William Barr should release the entire report.
*
Mueller report sent to attorney general, signaling his Russia investigation has ended *

Devlin Barrett, Matt Zapotosky, Josh Dawsey

Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III submitted a long-awaited report to Attorney General William P. Barr on Friday, marking the end of his investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election and possible obstruction of justice by President Trump.

The submission of Mueller’s report ends his closely watched inquiry — a case that has engulfed the Trump administration since its inception, leading to criminal charges against 34 people, including six former Trump associates and advisers.

A senior Justice Department official said the special counsel has not recommended any further indictments — a revelation that buoyed Trump’s supporters, even as other Trump-related investigations continue in other parts of the Justice Department. It is also unclear whether a Mueller report that does not result in additional charges could still hurt the president politically. 

Justice Department officials notified Congress late Friday that they had received Mueller’s report, but they did not describe its contents. Barr is expected to summarize the findings for lawmakers as early as this weekend. 

Only a small number of people inside the Justice Department know the document’s contents, but it immediately sparked a furious political reaction, with Democrats vying for the presidential nomination in 2020 demanding a public release of the findings and the two top Democrats in Congress, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.), calling for the full report and its “underlying documentation” to be provided to Congress.

Trump’s supporters viewed the news as an optimistic indication that he was on the cusp of being vindicated. 

“The fact that there are no more indictments is a big deal,” said David Bossie, a Trump ally. “This president has had his entire two-year presidency under a cloud of this fake, made-up Russian collusion story.”

Trump flew to his Florida resort Friday, accompanied by senior aides and White House lawyers. Trump did not immediately speak or tweet about the report’s delivery. Privately, some Trump advisers expressed relief that the report had been filed, but the president’s spokeswoman and lawyers were more guarded in their initial reaction.

White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said that the next steps “are up to Attorney General Barr, and we look forward to the process taking its course. The White House has not received or been briefed on the special counsel’s report.” 

In a letter to the leaders of the House and Senate judiciary committees, Barr wrote that Mueller “has concluded his investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election and related matters.”

Barr wrote that Mueller submitted a report to him explaining his prosecution decisions. The attorney general told lawmakers he was reviewing the report and anticipated that “I may be in a position to advise you of the Special Counsel’s principal conclusions as soon as this weekend.”

The attorney general wrote he would consult with Mueller and Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein “to determine what other information from the report can be released to Congress and the public consistent with the law, including the Special Counsel regulations, and the Department’s long-standing practices and policies.” *Read more*

@Nilgiri @Desert Fox thanks for the response, I'll be back


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## RabzonKhan

Since Mueller concluded his investigation, Trump and his supporters are calling Democrat Adam Schiff the House Intelligence Committee Chairman to resign.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1111217169730338816
Republicans on the House Intelligence committee also called on Schiff to resign his post as chairman.

Adam Schiff delivered a scathing takedown of Trump and his cronies. All the points he raised are supported by evidence, which has never been contested by Trump and his cronies. Just because Mueller could not bring criminal conviction beyond a reasonable doubt, it does not exonerate Trump and his associates.

Here is Adam Schiff’s powerful response/shut up call: 

“My colleagues might think it’s OK that the Russians offered dirt on the Democratic candidate for president as part of what’s described as the Russian government’s effort to help the Trump campaign. You might think that’s OK.

*“My colleagues might think it’s OK that when that was offered to the son of the president, who had a pivotal role in the campaign, that the president’s son did not call the FBI; he did not adamantly refuse that foreign help – no, instead that son said that he would ‘love’ the help with the Russians.*

“You might think it’s OK that he took that meeting. You might think it’s OK that Paul Manafort, the campaign chair, someone with great experience running campaigns, also took that meeting. *You might think it’s OK that the president’s son-in-law also took that meeting. You might think it’s OK that they concealed it from the public.* You might think it’s OK that their only disappointment after that meeting was that the dirt they received on Hillary Clinton wasn’t better. You might think that’s OK.

*“You might think it’s OK that when it was discovered, a year later, that they then lied about that meeting and said that it was about adoptions. You might think that it’s OK that it was reported that the president helped dictate that lie. You might think that’s OK. I don’t.*

*“You might think it’s OK that the campaign chairman of a presidential campaign would offer information about that campaign to a Russian oligarch in exchange for money or debt forgiveness. You might think that’s OK, I don’t.*

“You might think it’s OK that that campaign chairman offered polling data to someone linked to Russian intelligence. I don’t think that’s OK.

*“You might think it’s OK that the president himself called on Russia to hack his opponent’s emails, if they were listening. You might think it’s OK that later that day, in fact, the Russians attempted to hack a server affiliated with that campaign. I don’t think that’s OK.*

*“You might think it’s OK that the president’s son-in-law sought to establish a secret back channel of communication with the Russians through a Russian diplomatic facility. I don’t think that’s OK.*

*“You might think it’s OK that an associate of the president made direct contact with the GRU through Guccifer 2.0 and WikiLeaks, that is considered a hostile intelligence agency.* You might think it’s OK that a senior campaign official was instructed to reach that associate and find out what that hostile intelligence agency had to say in terms of dirt on his opponent.

*“You might think it’s OK that the national security adviser designate secretly conferred with the Russian ambassador about undermining U.S. sanctions, and you might think it’s OK that he lied about it to the FBI.*

*“You might say that’s all OK, that’s just what you need to do to win. But I don’t think it’s OK. I don’t think it’s OK. I think it’s immoral, I think it’s unethical, I think it’s unpatriotic and, yes, I think it’s corrupt – and evidence of collusion.”*

“Now I have always said that the question of whether this amounts to proof of conspiracy was another matter. Whether the special counsel could prove beyond a reasonable doubt the proof of that crime would be up to the special counsel, and I would accept his decision, and I do. He’s a good and honorable man, and he is a good prosecutor.

“But I do not think that conduct, criminal or not, is OK. And the day we do think that’s OK is the day we will look back and say that is the day that America lost its way.”

*“And I will tell you one more thing that is apropos of the hearing today: I don’t think it’s OK that during a presidential campaign Mr. Trump sought the Kremlin’s help to consummate a real estate deal in Moscow that would make him a fortune – according to the special counsel, hundreds of millions of dollars. I don’t think it’s OK to conceal it from the public. I don’t think it’s OK that he advocated a new and more favorable policy towards the Russians even as he was seeking the Russians’ help, the Kremlin’s help to make money. I don’t think it’s OK that his attorney lied to our committee. There is a different word for that than collusion, and it’s called ‘compromise.’*

“And that is the subject of our hearing today.” 

Here is a heated exchange between Trump's cronies and Chairman Schiff:

Adam Schiff HUMILIATES Trump Lackeys Who Told Him to Resign with Facts on Trump, Russia, & Mueller


----------



## RabzonKhan

Here’s another interesting perspective, Fox News senior judicial analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano appearing on the Fox News Cavuto’ program, Judge Napolitano tried to explain from where Chairman Schiff was coming from:







Here’s Judge Napolitano’ interview with Cavuto:

“We saw on Sunday a four-page summary of a 700-page report,”. “The 700-page report is a summary of two million pages of documents, of raw evidence.”

*“In the 700-page summary of the two million pages of raw evidence, there is undoubtedly some evidence of a conspiracy and some evidence of obstruction of justice, just not enough evidence—I’m thinking the way I believe Congressman Schiff is thinking—according to Attorney General Barr, not enough evidence to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, which is the standard.”*

*Judge went on to note that if “there were no evidence of conspiracy and no evidence of obstruction, the attorney general would have told us so,” adding that Barr didn’t, so “there is something there” that Democrats and Trump opponents want to see. And they’ll have a “field day” with it.*

Host Neil Cavuto wondered that if Barr possibly characterized the Mueller report incorrectly or misleadingly, wouldn’t Mueller have issued a clarifying statement, prompting Napolitano to answer “yes and no.”

*“On the conspiracy charge...Mueller, Rosenstein, Barr are on the same page,” the Judge said. “There is something there, but it is not enough to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.”*

He added: “On the obstruction charge, Mueller did what a lot of prosecutors do—they kick it upstairs. Let the boss decide this”.

===================

And of course, we all know that the Atty Gen Barr works for one of the most corrupt President, there is no way he’s going to charge his corrupt boss.


----------



## RabzonKhan

*Colbert: All The Other Reasons Trump Is A Bad President*

*



*

*Monologue: Trump's "Got Away with Treason" Tour | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)*


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## RabzonKhan

Goodness, Trump can’t even pronounce origins, as he attempted to pronounce the word multiple times saying “oranges” instead. 

And our mega Pres doesn’t even know where the hell his dad was born. 






No wonder they voted for him


----------



## RabzonKhan

*Obama Fears Progressives Are Too Obsessed With ‘Purity’

The former president said he worries about “a circular firing squad” among Democrats as 2020 approaches.

By Amy Russo*

As progressives continue to challenge the Democratic Party’s moderate members, former President Barack Obama says he fears that some may be going a step too far.

During an Obama Foundation town hall in Berlin on Saturday, he warned that without compromise, the conflicting ideologies could spur infighting among the left.

*“One of the things I do worry about sometimes among progressives in the United States ... is a certain kind of rigidity where we say, ‘I’m sorry, this is how it’s going to be,’ and then we start sometimes creating what’s called a circular firing squad where you start shooting at your allies because one of them is straying from purity on the issues, and when that happens, typically the overall effort and movement weakens,” he told the audience.*

Obama recalled his days breaking into the political arena as a young community organizer, admitting that he, too, “wanted change now and I wanted 100% of what I wanted,” only to be disappointed by officials who couldn’t make it all happen at once.

His reaction, he said, was one of furor and frustration.

“I’ve been on both sides of the equation,” he added, emphasizing that principles matter, but so does effective negotiation.

*“I think whether you are speaking as a citizen or as a political leader or as an organizer ... you have to recognize that the way we structure democracy requires you to take into account people who don’t agree with you, and that by definition means you’re not going to get 100% of what you want.”* *Read more*

========================

*Pelosi outlines a path to victory for House Democrats in 2020 — and guarantees it *

*Paul Kane *

Barely three months into her second turn in charge, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has already mapped out a plan to overwhelm Republicans in the 2020 elections.

*“I’m going to have our races won by this November,” the California Democrat said.

Yes, the House speaker predicted that she will have locked down the majority a full year ahead of schedule, leaving the political battlefield to what she considers an intense presidential race all the way up to November 2020.*

It’s a remarkably bold guarantee for Pelosi, who will celebrate this new majority’s 100-day mark at a Democratic retreat later this week outside Leesburg. Her caucus has had its share of growing pains in the first quarter of the year, with younger, more-liberal Democrats trying to push Pelosi’s leadership team as far to the left as possible.

A small but vocal faction of newcomers sparked a bitter debate over the party’s long-standing support of Israel. And a growing Democratic presidential primary field is advancing policies that are out of step with a couple dozen freshman Democrats who won swing seats in districts that favored President Trump in the 2016 election.

At the center of this storm sits Pelosi, 79, back where she ruled the House for four years last decade. Her office is assembled almost exactly the way she left it in 2010, a set of four chairs in a circle by the fireplace serving as the central nervous system for House Democrats. Through the window is a view of the Mall.

In a wide-ranging interview with The Washington Post, Pelosi acknowledged that the job now is different from her first go-round, most notably because President Trump is such a different personality than Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama. But, she also notes, the rise of social media has transformed politics since her last tenure, allowing newcomers to become instant stars in a way that she could not imagine when she arrived in the Capitol 32 years ago.

She considers her biggest mistake during her first stint as speaker was allowing Republicans to relentlessly attack her and her policy achievements such as the Affordable Care Act without any coordinated pushback. Democrats lost a staggering 63 seats and the majority in the 2010 midterms, leaving Pelosi’s public image battered for years to come.

“I was in this office, but I didn’t — I didn’t — relish being speaker. I relished the power of legislative accomplishments,” she said. “I didn’t see a public role.”

*In 2018, she became her own biggest advocate, touting her insider expertise in a campaign to reclaim her old job as Republicans ran what her office estimates were 137,000 ads warning voters about the danger of “Speaker Nancy Pelosi.” Democratic candidates were given free rein to criticize her, inoculating themselves from the GOP campaign and leading to a net gain of 40 seats.*

*She reclaimed the speaker’s gavel midway through a 35-day partial government shutdown and won a clear victory over Trump in his demand for border-wall funding. Her mocking clap toward Trump during the State of the Union address became a viral moment that completed her return to being liberal heroine, a status that had begun to fade over eight previous years of defeat for House Democrats.*

But her posture in the first 100 days has been anything but wild-eyed liberal. Fifteen Democrats did not vote for her in the Jan. 3 roll call for speaker, but several now praise her for taming the more liberal indulgences of the caucus.

“Don’t mistake not voting for her and not having a great, deep respect and admiration for her skills and talents and her pragmatism,” said Rep. Ron Kind (D-Wis.), one of her sharpest critics. “This is where, I think, her experience comes in handy. Because she has been around, she knows how this place functions.”

*In the interview, Pelosi dismissed the far left’s Medicare-for-all as a still emerging proposal that might provide worse health care than the landmark 2010 law she muscled through Congress.* She backed up the decision of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee to “black list” any consulting firm that works for candidates mounting primary challenges to incumbents, a move that has drawn calls from Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), who rose to fame defeating a 20-year Democrat, to boycott donating to the DCCC.

*And Pelosi rejected the idea that today’s Democrats are further to the left than a decade ago, suggesting that it was “just a few people” with high profiles and some of the “presidentials.”

Instead, she has charted a course of again appealing to moderate suburbanites and some rural voters frustrated by Trump’s reality-TV-style presidency. She doesn’t want to focus on impeaching Trump or on far-fetched legislation that has no hope of passing in divided government. She promises not to repeat the mistakes leading up to 2010.*

“You cannot let your opponents characterize — mischaracterize — what you’re about. So, what was missing from that was a strong messaging piece, and that’s what we had in this last election,” she said.

Republicans have mocked the new majority as a Congress focused on nonbinding resolutions, not real policy. There was the resolution to disapprove of the Justice Department’s legal opposition to the ACA and a resolution to condemn almost every form of hate.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) cited Pelosi’s oft-repeated line that budgets are about values, noting that Democrats are not offering a budget proposal. “They have no budget,” McCarthy said. “Does that mean they have no values?”

But Pelosi believes her endangered incumbents are shoring themselves up through a steady diet of town halls. And leadership is particularly pushing the freshmen running their first reelection to raise as much money as possible.

By Thanksgiving, if all goes according to her plan, potential GOP challengers will “think twice” about running against Democrats. And then she will deliver a stern warning to Republicans who remain in swing seats.

“We fully intend to win this election, and some of you are vulnerable. It’s going to cost you millions of dollars, to win or lose. And if you win — say you win — you’re in the minority, probably want to teach at the university,” Pelosi said, drawing out every syllable like the daughter of a Baltimore mayor who watched her father stare down rivals. “So we get the A-team, and they get the retirements. That’s my plan.”

*It’s quite a turnabout from less than two years ago, June 2017, when Democrats lost a special election in the Atlanta suburbs amid a flurry of anti-Pelosi ads. Calls for her to step aside grew louder, but she stuck to her plan, and last November, Democrats won that seat in their landslide victory.*

*Now, the ousted Republican, Karen Handel, is running again. Except this time, in the opening video, Pelosi’s image appeared only for a split second. Republicans might be moving on to other Democratic villains after the speaker’s comeback.

“Self-promotion is a terrible thing,” Pelosi said, “but somebody’s got to do it.”* 

*Source*


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## RabzonKhan

*Beto O'Rourke: Netanyahu a 'racist'*
By Eli Watkins and Donald Judd, CNN

Former Texas Democratic Rep. Beto O'Rourke offered sweeping criticism of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday, outright calling him "racist" and an obstacle to peace.

Speaking in Iowa as he campaigns for the Democratic nomination for president, O'Rourke said the US-Israeli relationship was among the most important "on the planet" and singled out Netanyahu.

*"That relationship, if it is to be successful, must transcend partisanship in the United States, and it must be able to transcend a prime minister who is racist, as he warns about Arabs coming to the polls, who wants to defy any prospect for peace as he threatens to annex the West Bank, and who has sided with a far-right, racist party in order to maintain his hold on power," O'Rourke said.*

*O'Rourke continued, saying he did not believe Netanyahu "represents the true will of the Israeli people" or the "best interests" of the relationship between the US and Israel. He went on to endorse a two-state solution to achieve peace between Israel and the Palestinians. *

"We must be able to transcend his current leadership to make sure that that alliance is strong, that we continue to push for and settle for nothing less than a two-state solution, because that is the best opportunity for peace for the people of Israel and the people of Palestine," O'Rourke said. "It is the best opportunity for the full human rights of everyone who is living in that region."

CNN has reached out to the Israeli Embassy in Washington for comment. 






O'Rourke made his comment to reporters after a rally where a voter asked about the conflict in the region. In the rally itself, O'Rourke offered similar criticism of Netanyahu, while also saying the Palestinian Authority had not acted in good faith.

O'Rourke's comments joined a larger debate taking place in the US and Democratic Party about Israel and Netanyahu, whom President Donald Trump hosted in the White House just weeks before Israel is set to hold decisive elections in which Netanyahu is up for re-election.

Trump has sought to seize on the issue, including by invoking a controversy in the House over anti-Semitism, while many Democrats running to challenge Trump in 2020 have rebuffed the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, a political group strongly supportive of Netanyahu.

*Trump signed a proclamation in March recognizing the Golan Heights as part of Israel, overturning longstanding US policy regarding the area and handing Netanyahu a significant foreign policy victory in the run-up to the upcoming election. 

A report from Haaretz quoted Netanyahu as telling Channel 12 News Saturday, "A Palestinian state will endanger our existence and I withstood huge pressure over the past eight years. No prime minister has withstood such pressure. We must control our destiny."*

Netanyahu went on to say, "I will extend sovereignty but I don't distinguish between the settlement blocs and the isolated ones, because each settlement is Israeli and I will not hand it over to Palestinian sovereignty." 

Netanyahu has tacked further right in the leadup to the April elections, including working openly to improve the electoral prospects of lawmakers with roots in a party banned in the 1980s for racism. *Source*


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## RabzonKhan

*The News In Cartoons *
*




*


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## RabzonKhan

A new survey by Pew Research Center released today (4/9/2019) that asked Americans their views about race relations in the United States.







*
Views of Trump’s handling of race relations are far more negative than views of how Obama handled the issue:








Most Americans (65%) – including majorities across racial and ethnic groups – say it has become more common for people to express racist or racially insensitive views since Trump was elected president:




*

*Read more
*


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## RabzonKhan

Trump disgracefully mocks Democrat congresswoman Omar while speaking to right-wing Jews in Las Vegas, his sarcastic remarks against her came a day after one of his supporters was charged by the FBI for threatening to assault and kill her because she is a Muslim, and of course, no surprise, just like Trump he hates Muslims.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114602898195873793


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## RabzonKhan

Bravo, the scumbag rapist Julian Assange was dragged out of Ecuadorian Embassy, can’t wait to welcome the damn Russian agent to US prison.







===========================

*Lawmakers call for immediate extradition of Assange*

Rebecca Shabad and Frank Thorp V and Marianna Sotomayor

WASHINGTON — Members of Congress from both sides of the aisle applauded the arrest Thursday in London of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange and called for his immediate extradition to the United States.

The lawmakers said Assange, who was charged by the Justice Department with computer hacking, had acted as an agent of the Russian government and had harmed U.S. national security.

"He has time after time compromised the national security of the United States and our allies by publicly releasing classified government documents and confidential materials related to our 2016 presidential election," House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Eliot Engel, D-N.Y., said in a statement. "Today this dark chapter hopefully begins to near its end."

Sen. Mark Warner, D-Va., ranking member on the Senate Intelligence Committee, said in a statement that whatever Assange's intentions were when he started WikiLeaks, "what he's really become is a direct participant in Russian efforts to undermine the West and a dedicated accomplice in efforts to undermine American security."

Sen. Angus King, I-Maine, told reporters that Assange has effectively been "an agent of the Russian intelligence agencies." So did Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr, R-N.C. "Under the guise of transparency, Julian Assange and WikiLeaks have effectively acted as an arm of the Russian intelligence services for years," he said in a statement. "Mr. Assange engaged in a conspiracy to steal classified information, putting millions of lives at risk all over the world. Hopefully, he will now face justice."

It was revealed Thursday that Assange was charged with one count of "conspiracy to commit computer intrusion for agreeing to break a password to a classified U.S. government computer," after he was arrested on behalf of a U.S. extradition request. As the head of WikiLeaks, Assange published secret American documents in 2010 that embarrassed the U.S. and other countries. Assange will face extradition hearings on May 2 and June 12. If convicted, he faces up to five years in prison.

He had been living as a fugitive for nearly seven years in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London to avoid extradition to the U.S. He was also wanted in Britain for skipping bail in 2012, when he was under investigation in Sweden on charges of sexual assault and rape.

Sen. Ben Sasse, R-Neb., tweeted Thursday that Assange's arrest was "good news" and that Assange has "long been a wicked tool of Vladimir Putin and the Russian intelligence services." Sasse added that Assange should serve the rest of his life in prison.

Speaking to reporters at the Capitol, Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., said Assange has "done a lot of harm" to the U.S. and "he should pay for that."

Sen. Cory Gardner, R-Colo., called on Twitter for "immediate extradition of Assange to the U.S., while Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, D-N.H., noted that the U.S. will likely "have to fight with other countries to get him extradited." 

*Asked whether President Donald Trump should have praised Assange when he was running for president in 2016, Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said Thursday, "That's up to the president."

"I have repeatedly condemned the guy," Graham said of Assange. "He's never been a hero. He released classified information and put our troops in danger, equally important to those who came to our aid, I think, in Iraq and Afghanistan."

Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

After the arrest of Russian agent Julian Assange, Trump is claiming “I know nothing about WikiLeaks. It’s not my thing.”

Oh my goodness, this lying man makes me sick, he is an embarrassment to this great Nation. According to Politico Magazine, Trump had nice things to say about WikiLeaks more than *140 times* during the 2016 campaign.

Here’s a compilation of Trump praising WikiLeaks:


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## Hamartia Antidote

Gomig-21 said:


> There might just be that one guy in Bill Weld. Someone who is not easily intimidated by the douchebaggery and sleazy and insulting tactics of this idiot who's the current president.



People’s prayers have been answered.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/15/politics/bill-weld-2020-trump/index.html

*Bill Weld officially announces he is challenging Trump for GOP nomination in 2020*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RabzonKhan

Hamartia Antidote said:


> People’s prayers have been answered.
> https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/15/politics/bill-weld-2020-trump/index.html
> 
> *Bill Weld officially announces he is challenging Trump for GOP nomination in 2020*


Bill Weld he is a decent man and I like some of the policies he has proposed. Though chances of him winning the primary against Trump are quite bleak, but you never know, who would have thought Trump would win the primaries and the general election.

But I will definitely vote for him in the Republican primaries, since I am from Washington state and our state is one of the 20 states where independents can vote in the Republican primaries.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

*Iowa's longest-serving GOP lawmaker joins the Democrats because of Trump*
By Jamie Ehrlich and Eric Bradner, CNN
Updated 9:09 AM ET, Wed April 24, 2019

Washington (CNN)Iowa's longest-serving Republican state lawmaker is ditching the party in a protest of what he called President Donald Trump's "unacceptable behavior" and is joining the Democrats.






*State Rep. Andy McKean, a moderate from eastern Iowa whose 29 years in the legislature include stints in the House and Senate, announced his party switch at a news conference Tuesday. He called Trump "a poor example for the nation and particularly for our children" and said he'll seek re-election in 2020 as a Democrat.
"With the 2020 president election looming on the horizon, I feel as a Republican that I need to be able to support the standard bearer of our party. Unfortunately, that is not something I am able to do," McKean said Tuesday of Trump.*

"He sets, in my opinion, a poor example for the nation and particularly for our children by personally insulting -- often in a crude and juvenile fashion -- those who disagree with him, being a bully at a time when we are attempting to discourage bullying, his frequent disregard for the truth and his willingness to ridicule or marginalize people for their appearance, ethnicity or disability," he said.

The move -- which narrows the GOP's hold on the state House to 53 seats to Democrats' 47 -- is an embarrassment for Trump in a state that's under a constant political microscope due to its role as the first to cast votes in presidential nominating contests. Democratic presidential contenders will battle for the next nine months ahead of the state's caucuses next year.

Iowa is also a swing state -- former President Barack Obama won it twice -- that had shifted rapidly in Republicans' favor in recent years. Trump won there in 2016 by nearly 10 percentage points. If Iowa is in play in 2020, it would be a sign that the Midwest had slipped away from the President.

McKean's explanation also speaks to the political challenges facing some Republicans across the nation about whether to stand with a President who has brazenly disregarded the traditional norms of decorum that for centuries have defined the office. His defection also comes soon after the release of a redacted version of special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election revealed a President and administration that frequently lie on an array of matters.
"I believe that it is just a matter of time before our party pays a heavy price for President Trump's reckless spending and shortsighted financial policies, his erratic, destabilizing foreign policy and his disregard for environmental concerns," added McKean, whose district sits in two rural, blue-collar counties in Iowa, Jones and Jackson.

"If this is the new normal, I want no part of it."
Republicans in Iowa vowed retribution against McKean.

"When Rep. McKean ran in 2016, he had no problem riding to victory on Pres. Trump's coattails. He's about to feel the headwind of Pres. Trump's support in District 58," Iowa Republican Party chairman Jeff Kaufmann tweeted. *Source*

*


*

========================

Fox News’ Shep Smith just excoriated Trump's lying son-in-law Jared Kushner live on air for diminishing Russia’s attack on our election.


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## RabzonKhan

*Joe Biden officially launches 2020 presidential bid*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1121353260231688192
*Biden Scores a Wave of Congressional Endorsements After Campaign Launch*

*The former vice president quickly nabbed endorsements from four U.S. senators, the most of any Democratic candidate running for president.*

FORMER VICE PRESIDENT Joe Biden on Thursday received a wave of congressional endorsements shortly after announcing his 2020 presidential campaign, highlighting his long tenure and relationships in Congress.

Biden, a Pennsylvania native who represented Delaware in the Senate for 36 years, nabbed four endorsements from Democratic senators: Chris Coons of Delaware, Tom Carper of Delaware, Bob Casey of Pennsylvania and Doug Jones of Alabama. Coons won a special election to replace Biden in 2009 when he became vice president.

"The quality that makes Joe stand out is his ability to bring people together to find common ground while standing up for what he believes is right," Jones tweeted Thursday. "We need to listen to each other & get things done for working people. Joe can, and will, do that. That's why I support Joe Biden."

Biden has so far received the largest number of endorsements from Democratic senators. The other Democratic candidates to receive endorsements from the Senate are all senators themselves, and have each received one endorsement from a colleague in their state. That list includes Sens. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, Bernie Sanders of Vermont, Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, and Cory Booker of New Jersey.

Biden also scored support from several House lawmakers, including Democratic Reps. Tom Suozzi of New York and Lisa Blunt Rochester of Delaware.

Early Thursday morning, Biden became the 20th candidate to enter the Democratic presidential primary, making it his third bid for the White House. He's viewed as a front-runner with a lead in most public polling, but questions have emerged about claims of inappropriate behavior as well as his record in a left-lurching primary.

Biden has been repeatedly labeled as a moderate. But he has rejected that label, noting that he was never described that way while running in any of his past races. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

* Joe Biden makes the case: He’s the guy to kick Trump out *

Jennifer Rubin
4 hrs ago






Former vice president Joe Biden announced his run for the presidency via video Thursday morning:

*Biden, unlike every other 2020 Democratic presidential candidate, made his kickoff announcement about — and only about — defeating President Trump. That underscores his stature, puts him in a class by himself above the rest of the contenders, and signals a moral seriousness that the moment seems to warrant.* 

*Biden’s statement that America is an “idea” is both a unifying call for Americans regardless of ideology, party, class and race and a dagger in the heart of Trumpism, which posits that America is about blood and soil, a nativist image that no president before the current one has embraced. *

Biden didn’t have to talk about policies, because voters know essentially where he sits on the ideological spectrum — squarely in the center left. He can lay claim to be the Obama Democrat, progressive but not wacky, and the friend to traditional Democratic consistencies (women, African Americans, immigrants). *He hardly needs to remind voters that he’s pro-union, passionate about fighting climate change and appalled by Trump’s suck-uppery to Russian President Vladimir Putin and other international thugs. He has the luxury, therefore, not to spend time introducing himself but instead setting the battle lines between him and Trump.*

Biden, who will at some point need to address his past stance on crime and his experience with the Anita Hill hearings, also makes his first message about Trump’s unpardonable sin in fanning racism, anti-Semitism and hate. He presents himself as the champion of tolerance, inclusion and decency — qualities that voters already associate with him.

He also gives Democrats an outlet for their anger, disgust and, yes, even fear about what Trump is doing to the country. He declares emphatically that we cannot tolerate eight years of Trump. Implicit is the argument that whatever his faults, if Biden is the guy best equipped to kick Trump out, he should be the nominee.

News coverage has devoted so much time to Biden’s challenges that it’s easy to forget his major advantages, most importantly, his preexisting relationship with voters, their genuine affection for him and his comfort level in speaking about values and the American creed (“All men are created equal...”). 

It would be a mistake to characterize his path to the nomination as easy, let alone preordained. Like any candidate, Biden has weaknesses. However, he holds a unique place right now in American politics — the grand old man of the party, the dignified father who has twice had to bury children, the right-hand man for the popular ex-president, the friend of labor and the gregarious uncle who’s always going to ask how things are going and, yes, give you a hug when you are feeling down.

We will see if Biden’s official entry into the race moves him into a commanding lead in the polls, opens the fundraising floodgates and sucks up the support and free media attention keeping other candidates afloat. One shouldn’t underestimate the importance of the first days and weeks of a campaign. The good news for him is that all eyes will be on Biden for a time; the bad news is that early slip-ups will get plenty of coverage.


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## RabzonKhan

The View show’s hosts welcome Joe Biden.


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## RabzonKhan

*Biden leads Trump by 6 points in first post-announcement poll *

Matthew Sheffield
23 hrs ago











Biden's consistently strong numbers against Trump in hypothetical match-ups don't bode well for the president, Bill Schneider, a professor at George Mason said Friday on "What America's Thinking."

"What Joe Biden offers in this campaign is normalcy, something people are desperate for after now three years of Donald Trump," Schneider told host Jamal Simmons. "They want a normal president. They want a president who knows how to do things, who has long experience, and knows how the government works, which Trump does not." *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

Morning consult released their weekly tracking poll of likely Democratic primary voters. Joe Biden got a six-point bounce from his presidential campaign, while Bernie Sanders lost two points, despite all the controversies about his so-called “creepy style”, voted for Iraq War and Anita Hill hearings, Biden has widened his lead over Bernie Sanders almost 14%.









The other good news for Biden was endorsement from one of the largest trade unions in the country, International Association of Firefighters said they support his presidency.

They posted a video featuring highlights from Biden’s addresses to the group over the years.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1122802865964187650
International Association of Firefighters Pres Harold Schaitberger said the organization is proud to stand with Biden in his bid for president. He called Biden a compassionate problem solver, a staunch advocate for working families and commended his leadership and experience on the international stage.

Biden proves civility and decency will enhance the political discourse that our country needs right now, Mr. Schaitberger said.


Biden thanked the union for the endorsement:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1122877945280962566
Looks like someone was not happy 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1122871319857696768
Biden immediately hit back.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1122896956676812800


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## RabzonKhan

Opinions
*I’m a proud Democrat. I’m also a proud capitalist.

By Stephanie Murphy*

*Stephanie Murphy, a Democrat, represents Florida’s 7th Congressional District in the House of Representatives.





*

*I’m a Democrat in the House of Representatives who recently became a minor cause celebre in conservative media circles after I publicly pronounced myself a “proud capitalist” distressed by the increasing use of the term “socialism” in our national discourse.*

*While this term has come to mean different things to different people, it signals disenchantment with — and a desire to discard — the capitalist model that the United States has embraced since its founding.*

*I didn’t expect my comments to be newsworthy, because I think they reflect sentiments shared by most Americans, including my congressional colleagues. I wasn’t trying to feed the right-wing media beast that ravenously awaits any scent of Democratic infighting. I spoke up because I felt compelled based on my life experience. This country has done so much for me, and I care deeply about the direction it’s headed.*

*When I was a baby, my family fled the communist-led Socialist Republic of Vietnam to escape persecution and seek a better future. We were rescued by the U.S. Navy, which helped us reach a Malaysian refugee camp. From there, a church sponsored our passage to the United States, where we became proud citizens.*

*Like other immigrants who found sanctuary in the United States, I possess a deep well of gratitude for this country. My patriotism is rooted in the fact that, were it not for the combination of U.S. power and generosity, my family’s story likely would have ended in tragedy. It’s little wonder that some of the most faithful citizens in the United States were born outside its shores.*

Once in the United States, my parents worked multiple jobs to make ends meet. But I remember them shipping basic supplies to relatives back in Vietnam, where the pursuit of socialist economic policies had resulted in shortages and suffering. In this country, *I was able to receive a good education, have fulfilling jobs in the private sector and work at the Defense Department after 9/11. In 2016, I became the first Vietnamese American woman elected to Congress.*

Given my background, I genuinely worry that some may take for granted the unique opportunities afforded citizens of this country, leading them to favor, or flirt with, socialist policies.

This term carries historical baggage that can evoke painful feelings in Americans whose families experienced communism or socialism in its darkest form. It’s not easy for me to explain to my Florida constituents who escaped Fidel Castro’s Cuba or Nicolás Maduro’s Venezuela that the socialism proposed by several of my colleagues is different than the socialism they endured. I can argue it’s like comparing apples and oranges. For them, understandably, it’s all poisonous fruit.

*While Democrats who accept the socialist label are few and far between, the Republican Party as an institution has conducted itself irresponsibly in this capitalism-vs.-socialism debate. When congressional Republicans and the president don’t like a government program, they flippantly condemn it as sign of creeping socialism. For partisan reasons, they seek to paint the entire Democratic Party as drifting toward socialism, when the philosophy is espoused by a small minority of members. Arguably, these Republican tactics have done as much, if not more, to normalize the conversation about socialism than anything Democrats are doing.*

I will continue to support the United States’ system of democratic capitalism, consisting of a market economy driven by the innovation of the private sector and constrained by guardrails constructed by a duly-elected government. This model has helped build the greatest nation and economy in the world. It would be folly to abandon it.

*However, we must work to reduce the very real inequities in our country. All Americans deserve a fair shot at success. For every story like mine, where an American dream becomes reality, there are countless tales of talented, hard-working people who face insurmountable obstacles because of the circumstances they were born into.*

*Government has a vital role in breaking down these barriers to advancement. The best way to blunt the appeal of socialism in the United States is to improve capitalism so it works better for everyone.*

*The United States is a continuous work in progress. Let’s seek a more perfect union, but let’s not forsake what makes this country special.
Source*

================






The U.S. Department of Agriculture has paid farmers $8.39 billion of the estimated $9.56 billion it promised in December. *Source 
*
There goes Trump's war on socialism. 

Note: ranchers and farmers are a key constituency for Trump.


----------



## RabzonKhan

Opinions
*This nation is at the mercy of a criminal administration*

By  Max Boot Columnist May 3 at 11:29 AM

*Imagine that you live in a town that has been taken over by gangsters. The mayor is a crook and so are the district attorney and police chief. You can’t fight city hall. But at least you know you can turn for help to the state or federal government. Now imagine that it’s not a city or state that has been taken over by criminals — it’s the federal government. Where do you turn for help? That is not a theoretical concern. After the release of special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s report, it’s our grim reality. *

*Even before Mueller’s probe ended, federal prosecutors in New York had implicated President Trump in ordering his lawyer, Michael Cohen, to violate federal campaign finance laws. Mueller then documented at least six ironclad incidents of obstruction of justice by Trump along with numerous instances of misconduct that, while not criminal, are definitely impeachable.* The New York Review of Books reported that two prosecutors working for Mueller said that if Trump weren’t president, he would have been indicted.

Now the administration is obstructing attempts to bring the president to justice for obstruction of justice. William P. Barr isn’t the attorney general; he is, as David Rothkopf said, the obstructor general. We now know that Mueller wrote (in Barr’s description) a “snitty” letter objecting that Barr’s deceptive summary of his work, designed to falsely exonerate Trump, “threatens to undermine … public confidence in the outcome of the investigations.”

Yet when Barr testified to Congress after receiving the Mueller letter but before releasing the Mueller report, he claimed not to know whether Mueller disagreed with his conclusions. “He lied to Congress,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) charged. But even if it could be proved that Barr committed perjury (no sure thing), who would prosecute him? Is he (or his deputy) going to appoint a special counsel to investigate himself? Unlikely. And if he did appoint a special counsel, would he heed the counsel’s conclusions? Also unlikely.

*Barr’s jaw-dropping performance before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday dispelled any lingering confidence in the impartial administration of justice — the bedrock of our republic. He actually testified that if the president feels an investigation is unfounded, he “does not have to sit there constitutionally and allow it to run its course. The president could terminate the proceeding and it would not be a corrupt intent because he was being falsely accused.” Given that no president has ever felt justly accused of any misconduct, this means that the president is above the law. Barr is endorsing the Nixon doctrine: “Well, when the president does it, that means it’s not illegal.”*

The administration makes clear that this is precisely its intent with its scandalous stonewalling of Congress. Barr himself refused to appear before the House Judiciary Committee on Thursday. Trump is suing to prevent his accountants and financial institutions from sharing his business records with Congress, while his treasury secretary is refusing to comply with a lawful demand for his tax returns. Trump is also blocking numerous current and former officials, including former White House counsel Donald McGahn, from testifying about his misdeeds. His conduct is redolent of the third article of impeachment against President Richard M. Nixon for failing “to produce papers and things as directed by duly authorized subpoenas” from Congress.

*While conferring legal immunity upon himself, Trump is eager to weaponize the legal system against his opponents. The Mueller report documents three separate occasions when Trump demanded a Justice Department investigation of Hillary Clinton. Now, the New York Times reports, Trump and his attorney, Rudolph W. Giuliani, are attempting to instigate a criminal probe of his leading 2020 opponent, Joe Biden, on what appear to be trumped-up charges of corruption.* In one of the more chilling exchanges during his Senate testimony, Barr would not say whether “the president or anyone at the White House ever asked or suggested” that he open an investigation. If the answer were “no,” he would have said so.

*It is hard to think of any president in the past 230 years, including Nixon, who has ever sabotaged the rule of law so flagrantly or so successfully to protect his own hide. And, sadly, it is hard to imagine that anything can be done about it before Nov. 3, 2020. The House could try to compel compliance with its subpoenas, but the Justice Department will never file criminal charges, and the courts could take years to decide a civil suit. The House could vote to impeach Trump or Barr — which they richly deserve — but that would be a purely symbolic act and could backfire politically because Senate Republicans, like the O.J. Simpson jury, would vote to acquit regardless of the evidence.*

So for the next 18 months, at a minimum, this nation is at the mercy of a criminal administration. I am in despair as I have never been before about the future of our experiment in self-rule. Before Mueller filed his report, it was possible to imagine the president being brought to justice. That fantasy is no longer tenable. Instead we are left with the dismaying likelihood that the president will now feel emboldened to commit ever greater transgressions to hold onto power — and thus delay a possible post-presidential indictment.
*Source*


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## gambit

RabzonKhan said:


> The U.S. Department of Agriculture has paid farmers $8.39 billion of the estimated $9.56 billion it promised in December. *Source
> *
> There goes Trump's war on socialism.
> 
> Note: ranchers and farmers are a key constituency for Trump.


Aaahhh...That is not socialism. Protectionism or subsidies are not socialism.


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## RabzonKhan

*Trump is staking reelection on one of his biggest lies*

*President Trump has spent the last 24 hours tweeting manically about trade, repeating the absurd falsehood that China is paying us billions in tariffs. We keep hearing that this shows Trump “doesn’t understand” how tariffs work.*

*But this is better seen as a straight up, deliberate lie — a lie upon which Trump is staking his reelection.*

A long-term trade war with China now looks plausible. Trump just hiked tariffs to 25 percent on $200 billion of Chinese goods. Moments ago, China announced it will retaliate with $60 billion in new tariffs, on over 2,000 U.S. goods.

If this does continue, Trump’s lie about China paying us billions in tariffs will become ever more imperative for him.

*That’s why it’s such a big deal that Fox News’s Chris Wallace debunked this falsehood by getting economic adviser Larry Kudlow to admit that China is not paying the tariffs. In fact, they amount to a tax on U.S. consumers:*

But this lie is not a mere superficial sign of Trump’s failure to understand how trade works. Rather, it’s becoming central to the political strategy he’ll employ if we see protracted trade hostilities.

*Trump is in a jam on trade*

Trump’s trade war has put him in a jam. Revamping trade with China was a central campaign promise. But if Trump agrees to a deal that does not win real concessions, that will reveal his agenda of “toughness” as hollow — particularly if those concessions do not appear worth the pain the tariff wars have already imposed on farmers, in the very region that’s crucial to his reelection.

So the New York Times reports that Trump is now hoping to flip the political calculus: No deal, followed by still more tariffs, will allow Trump to proclaim he’s still being tough on China. *Incredibly, the Times reports that Trump apparently believes this will be a political winner even if increased tariffs impose still more economic pain.*

*Here’s where Trump’s lie comes in*

*How is this possible? Enter Trump’s lie. The new, convoluted story he’s telling is basically that the money we “take” from China in tariffs will be given to farmers in exchange for their products, which we will then exported to other countries that need them.*

It’s unclear how this would work. But Trump is set to approve another round of financial aid to farmers hit by his trade war. *Basically the claim will be that continued tariffs are a good thing: Trump is in effect taking money from China and giving it to his voters.*

There are three possible resolutions here, as Heather Long explains. We could end up with no deal and a full blown trade war. We could end up with a bad deal — U.S companies don’t get improved access to expanding Chinese markets and many tariffs remain. Or we could get a good deal — an end to unfair Chinese trade practices, access to Chinese markets, and real enforcement mechanisms.

The lie that China is paying us tariffs will be necessary if one of the first two scenarios happens. The third could still happen, but even if it does, Trump’s lie is still just that: a lie, and it’s obviously central to his back-up plan.

*Trump’s narrative about China, repurposed*

Notably, this backup plan repurposes the story that Trump has told about China for years: that China is robbing U.S. workers blind. Throughout 2015 and 2016, he claimed that China is “ripping us off" and is our “economic enemy," targeting us with the “greatest theft in 
the history of the world.”

*It’s true that China is a bad international actor, and that Trump did tap into real grievances about globalization. But as Paul Krugman notes, Trump hasn’t built an international coalition against China’s abuses. Instead, he’s waging trade wars on multiple fronts, alienating allies, so the one with China is better seen as an outgrowth of his desire to tear down the international trading order.*

In this regard, go back and watch Trump’s closing 2016 ad. It depicts a shadowy globalist plot, via imagery of George Soros (_hint, hint_), Asian businessmen, Democratic politicians, and Chinese sweatshop labor. The story: globalist elites are enriching themselves by pitting foreign low wage workers against U.S. workers. (The better answer to this story is the progressive trade agenda, which includes international wage and labor standards and real investments in displaced workers.)

Some observers look at Trump’s trade wars and still manage to see hints of his supposed economic populism, in which Trump vowed to defy GOP economic orthodoxy. But, given that Trump has gone all in with GOP plutocracy on taxes and shredding the safety net, while punting on infrastructure — three areas where he’d supposedly defy that orthodoxy — the real story is obvious. Trump’s “economic” populism remains operative only in areas that satisfy his _xenophobic_nationalist impulse to attack other countries as our enemies — immigration and trade.

*Indeed, it’s no accident that Trump also vowed to make Mexico “pay” for his border wall, to punish Mexico for “sending” us their outcasts and pitting them against U.S. workers, similar to his claim about China Central to this whole tale has always been the idea that Trump will take back for U.S. workers what this alliance of elites and foreign workers is stealing from them — he will take back what is rightfully theirs. That is: “I alone can fix it.” 

Given all this, failure on China could be catastrophic for Trump. So he’s just swapping in a new story: He’s making China pay restitution to U.S. workers by forcing it to “pay” us in tariffs. Source*









gambit said:


> Aaahhh...That is not socialism. Protectionism or subsidies are not socialism.


It’s a very slippery slope, we do not know how long Trump’s trade war is going to last and how long taxpayers will have to bail out farmers. Yes, it’s not pure socialism, but it is not pure capitalism, either. Many free market conservatives have called subsidies to farmers as a form of socialism.

BTY, do you consider Social Security and Medicare socialist programs?


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## RabzonKhan

*The News In Cartoons*
*






*


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## gambit

RabzonKhan said:


> It’s a very slippery slope, we do not know how long Trump’s trade war is going to last and how long taxpayers will have to bail out farmers. Yes, it’s not pure socialism, but it is not pure capitalism, either. Many free market conservatives have called subsidies to farmers as a form of socialism.
> 
> BTY, do you consider Social Security and Medicare socialist programs?


Subsidies and social safety net programs are neither socialism nor are they 'slippery slope' arguments.

Socialism is government controlled means of productions. Payments intending to help certain industries does not mean the government owns and controls those industries. Same for social safety net programs. Social Security does not produce anything, other than being a repository of money for retirees.


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## -=virus=-




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## RabzonKhan

Clearly, the lawless clown is scared/incapable of winning free and fair elections, as if gerrymandering, minority voter suppression, fear-mongering, racism and help from KGB thug was not enough, now he wants help for 2020 election from Communist China and Ukraine (a helpless country which depends on our financial help).

Here’s what you need to know why the Democrats opened an impeachment enquiry last week:





Judge Andrew Napolitano served as a New Jersey Supreme Court judge from 1987 to 1995. He’s a Fox News senior judicial analyst and Fox Nation host and writes for right-leaning publications like Washington Times and Reason. He supports Libertarian party.

*The House of Representatives has begun to gather evidence in an effort to determine if President Trump has committed impeachable offenses. The Constitution defines an impeachable offense as "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

The president need not have committed a crime in order to be impeached, but he needs to have engaged in behavior that threatens the constitutional stability of the United States or the rule of law as we have come to know it.*

*Has Trump committed any impeachable offenses?*

A CIA agent formerly assigned to the White House – and presently referred to as the "whistleblower" – reported a July 25, 2019 telephone conversation that Trump had with Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky. That conversation manifested both criminal and impeachable behavior.

*The criminal behavior to which Trump has admitted is much more grave than anything alleged or unearthed by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, and much of what Mueller revealed was impeachable.*

*What has Trump admitted?*

*The whistleblower’s revelation caused the White House to release a near-verbatim summary of the conversation between the two presidents. By releasing it, Trump has admitted to its accuracy. In it, Trump asked Zelensky for dirt on former Vice President Joe Biden, who at this writing is Trump's likely Democratic opponent in the 2020 presidential election.*

Trump also admits to holding up $391 million in aid to Ukraine – $250 million in the purchase of already approved and built military hardware and $141 million in a congressionally authorized grant. This is aid that Trump's own secretaries of state and defense, his own director of national intelligence and director of the CIA, and his own National Security Council unanimously asked him to release.

Trump has also admitted to accusing the as-yet publicly unnamed whistleblower of treason, and suggesting that the whistleblower and those who have helped him are spies and ought to be treated as spies were in "the old days" (Trump’s phrase) – that is, by hanging.

The president’s allusions to violence are palpably dangerous. They will give cover to crazies who crave violence, as other intemperate words of his have done. His words have already produced offers of "bounties" in return for outing and finding the whistleblower.

*Trump also suggested that his impeachment would produce a second American Civil War. This language is a dog whistle to the deranged.*

All of Trump's admissions need to be taken in context. In 2014 and 2015, Russian troops invaded Crimea, then a province of Ukraine. They took over government buildings and held a sham referendum, which had been declared unconstitutional under Ukrainian law by Ukrainian courts.

The troops dispersed the courts, and the Russian government annexed Crimea. What was a part of Ukraine five years ago today houses Russian troops and Russian tanks eyeing Kiev, Ukraine's capital.

*It is easy to see why all of the senior members of the Trump administration involved in security – all of them – advised the president to release the military hardware, which was ready to be shipped, and the foreign aid, which Congress had appropriated.

Trump rejected that advice. Instead, in the Zelensky phone call, he told the Ukrainian president that he needed a personal "favor." The clear unmistakable inference is that the $391 million in aid would be held up until the favor was delivered. The favor he sought was dirt on Biden.*

*Now, back to impeachment.*

*Federal law defines as criminal the solicitation of aid – anything of value – for a political campaign from a foreign national or foreign government, whether the thing of value arrives or not.

Federal law also prohibits bribery and attempted bribery, which is defined as withholding the performance of an official duty conditioned upon the personal receipt of a thing of value, whether the thing of value arrives or not.

The law further prohibits intimidating witnesses, which is defined as the use of language designed to deter witnesses from giving testimony, whether the intimidation is successful or not.*

The whistleblower has also alleged that senior administration officials attempted to dissuade Trump from asking for the favor from Zelensky. The whistleblower’s sources relate – and reporting now reveals – that a debate took place in the White House before the telephone call was made.

Should the aid be held up? Should the president ask for dirt about Biden from his Ukrainian counterpart? If Biden did anything criminal, shouldn't the Justice Department get involved? Should the transcript of the Trump-Zelensky phone call be hidden? Was the president warned in advance that asking Zelensky for a personal campaign benefit could be criminal or impeachable? Does anyone in the White House tell the president what he doesn't want to hear?

*Can the president put his own needs and wants above the nation's? In a word: No.

The president has taken an oath to enforce federal law, not break it. He cannot lawfully impose conditions – conditions that benefit him alone – as a prerequisite to compliance with the law.

Is violating campaign finance law by involving a foreign government in an American presidential campaign an impeachable offense? Yes, it is.*

The expressed intention of those who wrote the Constitution and those who wrote the campaign finance laws 200 years later – and the lesson of the post-2016 election and Mueller-investigated angst in America – was to keep foreign governments out of the American political system.

*For heaven's sake, Trump was just investigated by Mueller for two-and-a-half tumultuous years for allegedly bringing the Russian government into the 2016 election and now he has attempted in one phone call to bring the Ukrainian government into the 2020 election! Does he understand the laws he has sworn to uphold?

It was to remedy just such reckless, constitutionally destructive behavior that impeachment was intended.*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RabzonKhan

*Picture Of The Century!*





Brilliant, the picture shows U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is staring down and pointing a finger at Trump in the White House. Criticizing him for his foreign policy blunders and told him “All roads lead to Putin.”






So far, the best defense of Trump. Ben Shapiro takes the cake. He thinks Trump is too stupid to make plans to commit crimes.


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## RabzonKhan

gambit said:


> Subsidies and social safety net programs are neither socialism nor are they 'slippery slope' arguments.
> 
> Socialism is government controlled means of productions. Payments intending to help certain industries does not mean the government owns and controls those industries. Same for social safety net programs. Social Security does not produce anything, other than being a repository of money for retirees.


There are several problems with your argument, you are referring to the socialism that no major country follows today. Majority of Democratic socialists especially in the West, including Bernie have rejected that the whole economy should be centrally planned.

Now let’s look at the other side, is United States a pure capitalist economy? If I’m not wrong, a pure capitalist economy is a system in which the small government acts like a referee, all property is owned by private individuals and all services and goods are privately provided, prices fluctuate based on demand and supply. 

Now the million-dollar question is, what is the capitalist government doing running Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Public schools, Veterans health care, Libraries, Airports, Public parks, Food stamps, Amtrak trains and I can go on and on and on.

The bottom line is, the United States just like all major countries in the world including China is a mixed economy. All the programs I have mentioned are socialistic programs.


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## RabzonKhan



Reactions: Like Like:
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## cloud4000

I wonder if Donald Trump will be impeached or lose the election in 2020? It will depend on who the Democrats will pick as their candidate.


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## zectech

Gomig-21 said:


> Let's see if there is any Republican with enough balls to step up and put this disaster of a clown of a president in his place and rock his boat into sinking. So much of the focus is on the Democrats or the liberals (better yet, the "radical Liberals lol) but not much given to a conservative who would actually be a great choice for the GOP to back up and get this idiot out of office before it's too late. There might just be that one guy in Bill Weld. Someone who is not easily intimidated by the douchebaggery and sleazy and insulting tactics of this idiot who's the current president. And as a native of Massachusetts, we know Bill Weld since he was governor and did a hell of a job here during his tenure.
> 
> For me, this is not about parties or democrats or Liberals or Republicans, it's about the right candidate who properly represents this great country in a dignified manner and has the country's interest first and foremost in mind, not his own personal and self-aggrandizing motivation like this scum-sucking racist hog.
> 
> And for those of you who might disagree with what I say, put yourself in my position for one second and then see how you feel. When a racist pig like Donald Trump first comes out and says he's calling on a complete ban of all Muslims entering this country until they find out what the hell is going on.................followed by his disgustingly racist anecdote of general Pershing dipping his bullets in pig's blood and killing Muslims and that supposedly effectively took care of things for 17 years.............says NOTHING to support American Muslims when 50 of them are gunned down in mosques but when the Jewish people suffered the same, unfortunate fate in Pittsburgh last year, there was nothing but empathy for the Jews and Jewish people. Now, if you were a Muslim American, would any of this just blow over your head because you simply hate Democrats and Liberals and be ok with it? Well, guess what, I (along with millions of Muslim Americans) are not ok with a filthy, racist, bigot of a scumbag as the president of the United States and I truly hope he doesn't get elected for a 2nd term. We deserve MUCH MUCH MUCH better than this POS. Rant over!



*Trump the predator *


A new book uncovers fresh allegations of the president’s inappropriate sexual behaviour

Barry Levine and Monique El-Faizy, additional reporting by Lucy Osborne

Sat 19 Oct 2019 09.58 BST Last modified on Mon 21 Oct 2019 00.57 BST


  

  

 
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Donald Trump attends_ The Miss Universe Guide to Beauty_ book launch at Trump Tower, New York, in 2006. Photograph: Patrick McMullan/Getty Images
We all know the story by now. In 2005, Donald Trump was caught on tape bragging that his fame allowed him to sexually assault women. In 2016, as he was running for president, that recording, the so-called Access Hollywood tape, was made public, resulting in a stream of women coming forward and alleging that Trump had groped or otherwise sexually assaulted them. He was elected anyway; the women’s stories didn’t seem to matter. But they should.

If we have understood one thing in the two years since actor Alyssa Milano tweeted #MeToo, sending the then 11-year-old phrase viral, it is that when women are not listened to, men in positions of power are left free to abuse their authority. When the accused abuser is the president of the United States, those allegations and how they are handled matter all the more. Thanks to his bully pulpit, Trump’s words and actions resonate far beyond the deeds themselves.





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And then there is the question of collective responsibility. If we avert our eyes from the allegations of Trump’s abuse because we find it distasteful, we tacitly endorse his behaviour. When we dismiss or ignore his objectification and denigration of women, we legitimise it. Leaving these attitudes and actions unchecked allows them to proliferate.

When the recording was released, Trump brushed it off as “locker-room banter”. A short time later he denied having had affairs with **** star Stormy Daniels and Playboy model Karen McDougal. We, however, conducted more than 100 interviews in the course of researching our book _All the President’s Women_ and found that the language and the affairs were not mere aberrations. Since his campaign, Trump has already faced allegations from nearly two dozen women. Our book reveals another 43 allegations, bringing the total to 67 accusations of inappropriate behaviour, including 26 instances of unwanted sexual contact. In short, far from being occasional or accidental, his alleged misconduct with women was regular and widespread. We found that Trump repeatedly and systematically engaged in aggressive sexual pursuit of women over many decades and that his alleged behaviour followed discernible patterns. One of those was a predilection for young models.

All of a sudden she heard someone shout: 'Put your robes on, here he comes!'

In the early 1980s, NaKina Carr was working in New York for Oscar de la Renta and was backstage in the models’ dressing room at one of his fashion shows when she heard Trump’s name mentioned for the first time. She was getting ready when all of a sudden she heard someone shout: “Put your robes on, here he comes!”

At 21, the Texas native was already on the older side for a catwalk model, who generally start working when they are in their teens, but she was new to New York and had no idea what was going on. “I didn’t know what they were talking about … but suddenly everyone threw on their dressing robes,” Carr said, speaking publicly about her memories of Trump for the first time. Carr asked another woman what was wrong, and she pointed to a man across the room. “She said: ‘He’s the money man. He can do whatever he wants … Unless you’re a gold digger, you avoid him at all costs.’”

Trump walked in as if he owned the place, according to Carr’s account, with a pregnant Ivana, his first wife, trailing behind him. “He threw his arms wide open and said: ‘OK now ladies, drop ’em,’” Carr said. “The one thing I’ll always remember is the dejected look on Ivana’s face in the dressing room. I thought how horrible, that he would treat her in this way.”

As Trump strode around the dressing room, Carr concealed herself behind a pillar, incredulous that someone would be so crude. “The other girls were obviously afraid of him, like they knew he meant it and it wasn’t a joke,” she said. The model was later assured that she was not Trump’s type – at the time the rumours among modelling insiders was that he preferred younger women. “If you’re over 21 you don’t have to worry,” Carr said she was told.

Those rumours appear to be backed up by other accounts of Trump during that era. Model Barbara Pilling was not yet 18 when her booker took her to a party a few days after her arrival in New York, in the summer of 1989. Trump was also in attendance. Pilling didn’t know who the real estate developer was, but she noticed him looking at her. “I could see him eyeing me up and watching me,” she said. She claims that once he caught her gaze, Trump started talking to her. “I remember him saying: ‘Oh, how old are you?’ And I said 17, and he said: ‘That’s just great; you’re not too old, not too young.’”

Pilling said Trump tried to make small talk with her for a while, but his gaze kept veering to her chest. He asked her if she liked where she was living and said he knew great places she could stay if she didn’t. Trump offered to show her the city and to take her to dinner. He told her she was gorgeous, like a dark-haired Marilyn Monroe, and asked her if she would ever consider going blond. “I was starting to feel uncomfortable,” Pilling remembered. “It’s not a nice feeling for a young girl to have an older man making advances on her.” Another model standing nearby whispered to Pilling that Trump clearly liked her, and explained who he was. “I wasn’t impressed by it. I mean, I was only 17.”




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From left: Rachel Crooks, Jessica Leeds and Samantha Holvey speak at news conference in New York, 2017. Photograph: Andrew Kelly/Reuters
Pilling eventually excused herself to go to the restroom, where yet another woman was talking about the developer. “She said he grabbed her *** and kept going for her and was all hands,” Pilling said. Between that and her own conversation with him, Pilling was so disturbed that she left the party without saying goodbye to anyone.

When the Australian Shayna Love was living in New York in 1991, she says models were encouraged to attend dinners that became occasions for “men to pick up girls”. “You’d go to these things and look pretty, give the men attention,” Love said. She was 16 at the time and part of the Elite model agency’s “New Faces” campaign. “We might as well have been called ‘fresh meat’.” Love recalled a dinner with Trump. “This time it was a private area, a big table and lots of girls – I’d say around 10 to 15 of us, all between the ages of 14 and 18,” she said. “It was just us models, Trump and [Elite founder] John [Casablancas]. We were all underage, but we were offered drinks.” Love said she went home early, but other girls stayed.

Trump was often seen with Casablancas. He hosted events for Elite’s modelling contests at his New York properties and provided lodging for the contestants. Eli Nessa had just turned 17 and was representing Norway during one such Elite competition hosted by Trump’s hotel in the early 90s. In addition to the events for the competition, the women were expected to attend several nights of parties. “There were all these older men,” she said. “It was so seedy.” Nessa was accompanied by her agent, but other women appeared to be alone. “I remember this Italian girl, extremely naive, who couldn’t speak any English. She was easy prey. They were all around her,” Nessa said. “We were a bunch of kids, just put there with all these older men.”

Heather Braden was also an Elite model and, in the late 90s, alleges that she was instructed to go to a party in a mansion on one of the islands off Miami Beach. Trump was going to be there, she was told. Braden went with a couple of friends who were also models. When they arrived, the first thing they saw was a table manned by two security guards. The models were handed papers. “I presume they were NDAs for us to sign,” Braden recalled. They ignored the papers and walked into a big room where there were about 50 models. In her mid-20s, Braden was one of the oldest women there. Many were from eastern Europe and didn’t speak English, so Braden and her friends kept to themselves.

They found the party odd. There was no DJ, no food, and no bartender – though there were drinks, Braden remembers. “It was very awkward from the beginning,” she said years later. “Fifty females in this room, no real hosts. Very unusual. And then down this large staircase, in front of all of us, there was Donald Trump and behind him there were three actors, 40s, maybe 50s. I don’t want to name them because they’re all still around.” The actors were famous. “They came down the stairs and spread out like sharks among the girls,” who had broken up into little clusters throughout the room. “Obviously, some of these younger girls were starstruck.”




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John Casablancas and Trump at the Elite Model Agency Look of the Year awards in 1991. Photograph: Ron Galella/Getty Images
Braden said she had been in the industry long enough to understand what was happening. “Clearly, we were there for one reason. We were just pieces of meat.” At a typical fashion industry party, there would be a mix of people, men of different ages, male models, men in the business. Not here. Braden believed that this party had been set up specifically for Trump and the three actors. “This was not eye candy,” she said. “Sometimes you’re brought to these big parties like that, but this was different.”

From a couch in the farthest corner of the room, Braden and her friends watched as each man made his way through the knots of models. They started with the standard opening lines, asking the women their names and where they were from. “Five minutes later – this is what they did to me: ‘You want to come upstairs?’ It was anything from, ‘You want to see the rest of the house?’ to ‘Do you want to see the bedroom? The view?’ Or ‘Do you want to partake in party favours?’ That was the terminology,” Braden said. “Sometimes there’d be a couple of girls that would go up together.” Braden said Trump approached her at the party, and chuckled when she turned him down.

In addition to Casablancas, whose marriage ended after he had an affair with a 16-year-old Stephanie Seymour and who later married another one of his models when she was 17, Trump’s social circle in the early 90s included Jeffrey Epstein, a convicted sex offender who allegedly ran a sex ring of underage girls. Epstein pleaded guilty in 2008 to soliciting a minor and in July 2019 was charged with two federal counts of sex trafficking before being found dead in his prison cell in an apparent suicide in August. Trump once said of Epstein: “Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”

Eventually Trump found an easier way to surround himself with models: he started his own agency. Trump Model Management launched in 1999, the same year Trump divorced Marla Maples. When Leonardo DiCaprio – another man with a taste for women who walk the runway – heard about Trump’s new venture, he approvingly dubbed it “one-stop date shopping”.

'Clearly, we were there for one reason … We were just pieces of meat'

Now Trump had the models coming to him, and it is alleged that he introduced them to his sons. Ksenia Maximova said she worked for Trump Model Management in 2003 and 2004, and again a few years later. In 2004, when the Russian-British model was 18, her agent summoned her to a meeting in Trump Tower. “He said: ‘Oh, we’re just going to meet the owner of the agency,’” she said, speaking publicly for the first time about the encounter. “And then he told me to get all dressed up, properly, because I was quite tomboyish, so he did tell me to put a nice dress on and some high heels and stuff.”

Maximova complied, and she and her agent took the elevator to Trump’s offices. The developer was at his desk with Donald Jr, then 26, standing behind him, although they weren’t introduced so Maximova didn’t know this was Trump’s son. She settled on a chair and Trump and her agent began talking. “I was just kind of sitting there,” she said. Trump asked her a few questions but for the most part didn’t address her. Donald Jr was generally silent, too. “It was all really awkward because it was like: ‘Let the grownups do the talking,’ kind of thing,” she said. “It was just like I didn’t matter and he didn’t matter. I just thought he was some aide or something.”

Maximova was made to feel so inconsequential that she began wondering why she had been brought there in the first place. “I didn’t really get introduced much. It was more like just to actually show me, visually. It wasn’t like anyone was interested in my personality or anything like that, so I was like: ‘What’s the point in this?’” She asked her agent as much when they were back in the elevator on their way down to the street. “We’ve heard that [Trump’s son] is maybe looking for a girlfriend now,” Maximova claims her agent told her. “That’s when I got really angry and told him off and asked him to never, ever, please, do this kind of thing again, especially without my consent.”

But even before he put the Trump brand on young models, he had found another business that ensured he would have a steady supply of beautiful young women in his life. In 1996, he purchased the Miss Universe Organisation, which also operates the Miss USA and Miss Teen USA pageants. “It’s a very, very great entertainment format,” he said at the time. “It gets very high ratings, it’s doing very well and we’ll make it even better.” Trump’s improvement plan? “I made sure the women were really beautiful because they were getting a little bit not as beautiful. They had a person who was extremely proud that a number of women had become doctors. And I wasn’t interested,” he said on the Howard Stern radio show. “I made the bikinis smaller and the heels higher,” he told the late-night TV host David Letterman in 2010.




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Trump addresses the contestants in the Miss USA beauty pageant in 2012. Photograph: AP
From the very beginning, Trump exercised what he saw as the owner’s prerogative. “I’ll go backstage before a show, and everyone’s getting dressed and ready and everything else,” Trump told Stern in 2005. “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it … ‘Is everyone OK?’ You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

At times, Trump’s gaze was more targeted. Samantha Holvey told CNN that when she was 20 and competing in the 2006 Miss USA pageant, Trump made pointed visual inspections of all the contestants. “He would step in front of each girl and look you over from head to toe like we were just meat, we were just sexual objects, that we were not people,” she said. “You know when a gross guy at the bar is checking you out? It’s that feeling.” Being ogled by Trump made Holvey feel “the dirtiest I felt in my entire life”. She and her fellow contestants were also invited to private parties filled with “old, rich, drunk guys ogling all over us”, Holvey said.

These women are just a sample of those who have come forward with accusations against Trump; new allegations continue to emerge. And while Trump is the most visible of the influential men accused of predatory behaviour, he is far from an outlier, as even a cursory glance at recent headlines illustrates. Jeffrey Epstein. Harvey Weinstein. R Kelly. Hundreds of men were brought down in the wake of #MeToo as women began to share their stories.

Still, these reckonings, while important, are not the ultimate solution, because the individual men are not themselves the core of the problem; that runs much deeper. These abuses took place over the course of decades and were far from secret. All too often, institutions sacrificed accusers to protect themselves and the coteries that ran them. If lasting and significant change is to take place, it will require a significant overhaul of the systems and societal attitudes that allowed that to happen.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/oct/19/trump-predator-new-book-fresh-allegations

The article does not even cover this:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...rape-lawsuit-13-year-old-cancels-public-event

trump has mob connections and the mob gives death threats to anybody who would expose trump in the media of wrong doing.

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## RabzonKhan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1186922351784415232
Meanwhile, support for impeachment keeps on growing. 

*Support for impeaching Trump soars among independents: Reuters/Ipsos poll*

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Support for impeaching U.S. President Donald Trump surged among political independents and rose by three percentage points overall since last week, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released on Tuesday.

More Americans also said they disapproved of the president’s handling of foreign threats.

The Oct. 18-22 poll showed public opinion continued to shift as Americans digested a flurry of news over the past several weeks stemming from the congressional impeachment inquiry and Trump’s decision to pull troops from northern Syria.

*Overall, 46% of Americans said they supported impeachment and 40% said they opposed it.*

Support for impeachment was relatively steady among Republicans and Democrats over the past week but it surged among independents, a group that includes people who neither identify as Democrats nor Republicans and do not favor either party when they vote.

*Among independents, 45% said in the latest poll they supported impeachment and 32% said they opposed it, the strongest level of support recorded in more than a year.*

A little more than 1 in 3 independents had said they were in favor of impeachment in more than a dozen previous Reuters/Ipsos polls since June 2018.

*Trump leveraged his advantage in support among independents to narrowly win the White House in 2016 and it is expected that he will need them again to be re-elected.* *Read more*




cloud4000 said:


> I wonder if Donald Trump will be impeached or lose the election in 2020? It will depend on who the Democrats will pick as their candidate.


So far, it looks like the House is going to (more than 90% chance) impeach him, but most probably (though still up in the air) the Senate is going to acquit him. It is too early to predict the outcome of 2020 election. I think it will depend on three main issues: Democrat candidate, trade war with China and public opinion on impeachment.


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## RabzonKhan

The lying clown caught red-handed again. 






When a reporter asked Trump during the White House briefing:

*Reporter: * Mr. President — President Trump, what is McConnell — what is McConnell telling you about impeachment? Has he assured you that Senate Republicans won’t vote for it?

*Trump:* No, but I read Mitch McConnell’s statement yesterday, and he read my phone call. And, as you know, he put out a statement that said that was the most innocent phone call he’s read. And I spoke to him about it, too.

He read my phone call with the President of Ukraine. Mitch McConnell — he said, “That was the most innocent phone call that I’ve read.” I mean, give me a break. Anybody that reads it says the same thing. *Source*

But McConnell says he never spoke with Trump about the phone call. In other words, Trump completely made up the story and as usual, LIED!


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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

Good, let Trump and his supporters taste their own medicine. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1188624080473337856


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1188625647389859840


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## cloud4000

It's possible the country is reaching Trump fatigue. They are just sick of his shenanigans and want change. His hardcore supporters will follow him into hell, but the independents who voted for him the last time may not be around the second time. Remember he won three key states by a whisker.

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## RabzonKhan

The House approves Trump impeachment resolution. He is going to be the third president to face impeachment inquiry. He 100% deserves it! It’s time to put an end to his lawless behavior.


*Live updates: House passes impeachment resolution*

The House on Thursday passed a resolution to establish formal procedures for the ongoing impeachment inquiry into President Trump’s alleged political interference in foreign aid to Ukraine.

The 232-196 vote fell almost exclusively along party lines, with former Republican and current independent Rep. Justin Amash voting yes, and two moderate Democrats voting no.
*Read more.*


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## RabzonKhan

Robert Reich: Trump's Emoluments Mess


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## RabzonKhan

*Would the Founding Fathers Impeach Trump?*
*




*


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## RabzonKhan

Virginia election.

Great victory, Democrats on Tuesday won majorities in both the State House and Senate. Democrats now hold all three branches of government in Virginia for the first time in decades. Trump has been a great help, since he was elected the Republicans have now lost all branches of government in the state, the suburbs which used to be a stronghold of Republicans once again played a crucial role in Democratic victories. 

Democrats ran on a moderate agenda, beside the kitchen-table issues, they also pledged to support a higher minimum wage, equal rights Amendment and commonsense gun laws.

Virginia also elected Democrat Ghazala Hashmi who defeated Republican Sen. Glen Sturtevant to become the first Muslim woman elected to the state Senate.

In short, Virginia is now a Blue State! 



And as usual, I did my civic duty,

. Even though election in my state (Washington) was not that important, it was mostly Referendum measures, Initiative measures, Advisory vote and there was only one Councilor election. Since I became a US citizen in 2014 my voting record is almost 100%.


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## RabzonKhan

*Judge orders Trump to pay $2 million for misusing his foundation*

The money raised "was used for Mr. Trump’s political campaign and disbursed by Mr. Trump’s campaign staff," the judge noted.

Nov. 7, 2019, 11:03 AM PST
By Dareh Gregorian

President Donald Trump must pay a $2 million judgment for improperly using his Trump Foundation charity to further his 2016 presidential campaign, a New York state judge ruled Thursday.

The order appears to bring to an end the New York attorney general's lawsuit against the president and three of his oldest children over the now-shuttered foundation, which the attorney general said had engaged in repeated wrongdoing.


“Our petition detailed a shocking pattern of illegality involving the Trump Foundation — including unlawful coordination with the Trump presidential campaign, repeated and willful self-dealing, and much more," then-Attorney General Barbara Underwood alleged in a statement late last year.

In her seven-page ruling, New York Supreme Court Justice Salliann Scarpulla wrote, "Mr. Trump’s fiduciary duty breaches included allowing his campaign to orchestrate the Fundraiser, allowing his campaign, instead of the Foundation, to direct distribution of the Funds, and using the Fundraiser and distribution of the Funds to further Mr. Trump’s political campaign."

The judge was referring to a Jan. 28, 2016, event Trump held in Des Moines, Iowa, that he'd billed as a fundraiser for veterans. The event was counter-programming for a GOP presidential debate on Fox. Trump was feuding with the network at the time.

The event wound up raising $2.8 million, according to the judge, some of which Trump distributed in the form of giant checks at campaign rallies before the Iowa caucuses.

"The Attorney General has argued that I should award damages for waste of the entire $2,823,000 that was donated directly to the Foundation at the Fundraiser," Scarpulla noted. "In opposition, Mr. Trump notes that the Foundation ultimately disbursed all of the Funds to charitable organizations."

Taking "into consideration that the Funds did ultimately reach their intended destinations, i.e., charitable organizations supporting veterans, I award damages on the breach of fiduciary duty/waste claim against Mr. Trump in the amount of $2,000,000," she wrote.

The ruling noted that the money would go to eight nonprofit organizations, including the Children’s Aid Society, United Negro College Fund and the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum.

*Read more*


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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 588195



And he will definitely get what he deserves - but only after due process of law afforded to every criminal. Of that I have no doubt.

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> Virginia election.
> 
> Great victory, Democrats on Tuesday won majorities in both the State House and Senate. Democrats now hold all three branches of government in Virginia for the first time in decades. Trump has been a great help, since he was elected the Republicans have now lost all branches of government in the state, the suburbs which used to be a stronghold of Republicans once again played a crucial role in Democratic victories.
> 
> Democrats ran on a moderate agenda, beside the kitchen-table issues, they also pledged to support a higher minimum wage, equal rights Amendment and commonsense gun laws.
> 
> Virginia also elected Democrat Ghazala Hashmi who defeated Republican Sen. Glen Sturtevant to become the first Muslim woman elected to the state Senate.
> 
> In short, Virginia is now a Blue State!
> 
> 
> 
> And as usual, I did my civic duty,
> View attachment 587995
> . Even though election in my state (Washington) was not that important, it was mostly Referendum measures, Initiative measures, Advisory vote and there was only one Councilor election. Since I became a US citizen in 2014 my voting record is almost 100%.



How soon before Republicans throw Trump under the bus? In politics, it's always about self-preservation.


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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> And he will definitely get what he deserves - but only after due process of law afforded to every criminal. Of that I have no doubt.



Did the Obummer campaign finance violations ever get to that stage?

Only standards dem have are double standards.



cloud4000 said:


> How soon before Republicans throw Trump under the bus? In politics, it's always about self-preservation.



Probably after the 2nd term of trump. Only coz of term limit for president and they'll have another guy to beat up on the KKK-commie-crats next.


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## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Did the Obummer campaign finance violations ever get to that stage?
> 
> Only standards dem have are double standards.



Is that any different for the Republicans?


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## Nilgiri

VCheng said:


> Is that any different for the Republicans?



Nope. But Republicans (at root) seem to actually care about the country/nation. Dems (as the name implies if you know what absolute democracy means) are at root about control (though gathering and pandering to mobs of whichever flavour exist in a certain time). Post WW2, its very clear to me it was the Soviet threat that kept them contained and tolerably nation-oriented. After it ended, well thats the story ongoing right now.

They (GOP) have been "country club" softies long time though, no longer. No more nice taking it on the chin when someone (from the democrat party of all parties) accuses you of wanting to put black people "back in chains"....from blue-dog-KKK-crat fear of captive votes leaving the plantation.

How much longer democrats have to go by mobs-stronk and lose more and more through their tightening grip?:






Then again, I don't know why exactly they (GOP) went with uniparty vanilla Bush dynasty and similar for so long....but then again I was a kid that didn't know too much about it back then.

Their last best president started out as liberal-democrat too (given lot of idealist/change does churn there in positive way after all, which downstream bitter purist democrat elders still seem unable to harness in a moral/effective way)....till he saw what's up (with the whole grand deception alinsky style, throwing the country to dogs just to keep control) and turncoated. So ideally that kind of person (and Trump is just a new unique version of it) knows both the strengths and weaknesses of "liberals" (of the democrat flavour)...and what their whole schtick is essentially. Thus how best to beat them at their own game.

Democrats absolutely hate that....but its great for popcorn sales at least....and maybe, just maybe in the end of all this (whatever this is)....the bipartisan normie center re-establishes that its the message that matters, not the messenger....and what having a republic first before a democracy means constitutionally (and how that's reflected in the party names).


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## RabzonKhan

*We are a nation of laws, not of men.*

John Adams the second US President, put it best. “We are a nation of laws, not of men.”

"John Adams’ famous statement about the rule of law in his Constitution for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, approved by the voters in 1780. “In the government of this commonwealth,” Adams wrote, “the legislative department shall never exercise the executive and judicial powers, or either of them: the executive shall never exercise the legislative and judicial powers, or either of them: the judicial shall never exercise the legislative and executive powers, or either of them: to the end it may be a government of laws and not of men.”

That is the main difference between the United States and the West from rest of the world. A nation of laws means that laws, not men, rule. No one is above the laws regardless, whether he’s the President, General, member of Congress, Senate or ordinary American.

Trump on the other hand thinks he is above the law, “he can shoot someone on fifth Avenue” and nothing will happen.

Hopefully the impeachment inquiry will put an end to his lawless behavior or at least be a strong warning that his lawless behavior will not go unchallenged.

Today the House Intelligence Committee will kick off the first public hearings of the impeachment probe, with two key diplomatic officials set to appear at 10 a.m. ET. All the major broadcast and cable news channels will stream live.

Bill Taylor, the top diplomat in the U.S. embassy in Ukraine, and George Kent, the deputy assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian Affairs, will appear before the House Intelligence Committee to face questions from lawmakers and committee staff.

*Bill Taylor is Trump administration’s Charge d Affaires in the US embassy in Ukraine. * 
A West Point graduate who served for six years as an Army infantry officer, including with the 101st Airborne Division in Vietnam, Mr. Taylor is among the country’s most experienced diplomats, and has served in the administrations of Pres Reagan, Bush senior, Bill Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama and Trump.

A post at the United States Mission to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization in Brussels introduced him to a 30-year diplomatic career in Europe and the Middle East.

When Secretary of State Mike Pompeo asked William B. Taylor Jr., a highly respected former diplomat, to become America’s top diplomat in Ukraine in June, Mr. Taylor initially hesitated.

He had left government after decades of service and was serving as the executive vice president of the United States Institute of Peace in Washington. But he had remained involved in the affairs of Ukraine, a country that had particular meaning for him since spending three years there as the American ambassador more than a decade ago in the administration of President George W. Bush.

And he was concerned about the way President Trump’s ambassador to Ukraine had been pushed out of her job under suspicious circumstances. So was his wife, who urged him not to take the job, he said in his congressional testimony on Tuesday.

A conversation with a person he described as a trusted Republican mentor who had served in government changed his mind. “If your country asks you to do something, you do it — if you can be effective,” he recalled his mentor saying.


*George Kent currently serves as Deputy Assistant Secretary in the European and Eurasian Bureau at the U.S. Department of State, *

Overseeing policy towards Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus, Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan. Previously, he was Deputy Chief of Mission in Kyiv, Ukraine (2015-18). In 2014-15, George was the Senior Anti-Corruption Coordinator in the State Department’s European Bureau from 2014-15, leading development and advocacy of anti-corruption messages across Europe and Eurasia. From 2012-14, he oversaw $200 million in annual programming for the rule of law, law enforcement, and judicial system capacity building in Europe and Asia as Director in the Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement (INL/EA). Since joining the foreign service in 1992, he has served in: Warsaw, Poland; Kyiv; Tashkent, Uzbekistan; and Bangkok, Thailand. Other State Department assignments include: Special Assistant to the Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs; Operations Center Watch Officer; and Thai desk officer.

George holds an A.B. from Harvard in Russian History and Literature (1989), an M.A. from Johns Hopkins’ SAIS (1992), and M.S. from National Defense University’s Eisenhower School (2012). Mr. Kent speaks Ukrainian, Russian, Thai, and some Polish, German, and Italian. He is a Kirby Simon Fund Trustee and a proud member of Red Sox Nation.



*Watch Impeachment inquiry live on YouTube:*

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=impeachment+inquiry+live+


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## VCheng

And so the political theater begins.


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## RabzonKhan

VCheng said:


> And he will definitely get what he deserves - but only after due process of law afforded to every criminal. Of that I have no doubt.


I hope you’re right. And I also hope Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnel will stop their BS and behave more responsibly.

So far very revealing testimony from Mr Taylor. Are you watching it?



cloud4000 said:


> How soon before Republicans throw Trump under the bus? In politics, it's always about self-preservation.


Unfortunately, the chances are quite bleak, we have become too partisan. I don’t see any Rep. Lawrence Hogan’s.

I hope you are watching impeachment hearing?



VCheng said:


> And so the political theater begins.


It was inevitable.

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## RabzonKhan

Bombshell from yesterday’s testimony, first time it shows Trump guiding his cronies to carry out his corrupt agenda. Trump by the way, as usual, is denying about the phone call, of course yes, it’s just a matter of time before his lie is exposed.


*Bill Taylor dropped a bombshell in his impeachment hearing opening statement*

*He said a member of his staff gave an account of a previously unknown Trump phone call.

Vox
By Andrew Prokop
*
Toward the end of his opening statement in the first public impeachment hearing Wednesday, diplomat Bill Taylor dropped a bombshell.

Last week, Taylor testified, a member of his staff told him of a previously unknown phone call involving President Donald Trump — one that points to further personal involvement by the president in pressuring Ukraine to investigate the Bidens.

*This call took place on July 26, the day after Trump’s now-infamous phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Taylor’s staff member told him that Ambassador to the EU Gordon Sondland had called Trump on the phone from a restaurant; the staffer was present for that call. During the call, the staffer heard Trump ask Sondland about “the investigations,” and Sondland replied that the Ukrainians were ready to move forward.*

*“Following the call with President Trump, the member of my staff asked Ambassador Sondland what President Trump thought about Ukraine,” Taylor said. “Ambassador Sondland responded that President Trump cares more about the investigations of Biden, which Giuliani was pressing for.”*

*It’s yet another damning revelation in the scandal, one that further debunks the president’s defenders’ argument that there was nothing to see here. And it’s momentous because it suggests that Trump was very personally involved in what Sondland was telling the Ukrainians.*

There are many witnesses and documents attesting that, over a period of several months, Sondland repeatedly told the Ukrainians and his American colleagues that Ukraine needed to commit to investigations Trump wanted — first in exchange for a White House meeting, and later to get military aid Trump was holding up.

These witnesses said Sondland frequently claimed to be carrying out Trump’s wishes — but the extent to which he was simply interpreting his boss’s desires versus personally consulting with Trump hasn’t been clear.

*This account, though, would suggest it was Trump all along — that the president was indeed instructing Sondland (a donor who had given $1 million to his inauguration committee) on what to tell the Ukrainians. Furthermore, Sondland was openly saying this was all about the Bidens, according to this staffer.* *Source*


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## Nilgiri

and he got owned:






That ending especially


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## Farhan Malik

Donald Trump is a farter


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## Nilgiri




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## RabzonKhan

Yet another sweet victory! I am loving it!

Incumbent Democratic Gov. John Edwards defeated Trump supported Republican gubernatorial candidate in Louisiana, which is a Deep South red state, Trump carried it by 20 points in 2016 presidential election. He went there three times to support his candidate and in his last rally before the election, as usual, called Democrats, “a bunch of bad people”…..“ and now the absolutely crazed lunatics, the Democrats, the radical left are pushing the deranged impeachment witch hunt, for doing nothing wrong. We did nothing wrong.”

And in the end, he pleaded:

“You got to give me a big win, please, O.K.“ 



*Trump’s Efforts Fall Flat in Louisiana*

*Democrat John Bel Edwards won another term as governor, despite national support for the Republican.*
By Louis Jacobson, Contributor Nov. 18, 2019

DEMOCRAT JOHN BEL Edwards won another term as Louisiana’s governor on Saturday, frustrating President Donald Trump’s hope – backed by multiple visits to the state – of avenging the loss of the Kentucky governorship not even two weeks earlier.







As was the case in Kentucky’s gubernatorial race, Edwards’ victory demonstrated that Trump’s efforts to nationalize the contest by focusing on impeachment and other hot-button issues have limits, even in solidly red states.

After failing to reach 50 percent in the all-party primary, Edwards defeated Republican businessman Eddie Rispone in Saturday’s runoff, 51 percent to 49 percent – a margin of just 40,000 votes, and one that came despite steep challenges for the incumbent.

Edwards, a West Point graduate, Army veteran and longtime state legislator, won his office in 2015 by defeating Republican Sen. David Vitter, who was hobbled by his past ties to prostitutes. This year’s opponent, Rispone, had no such personal baggage. *Read more*



Nilgiri said:


> and he got owned:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That ending especially


"He got owned", really? all I saw was Jordan was speaking fast, loud and misleading. So what was I missing?


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## RabzonKhan

*Watch Live: Trump Impeachment Inquiry Hearings - November 19, 2019 (Day 3) | NBC News*

*



*






*Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman* is testifying before House impeachment investigators. He heard the call on July 25 between President Trump and President Zelenskiy of Ukraine. He's active-duty Army.

He was wounded in Iraq leading infantrymen in 2004 before becoming a foreign area officer specializing in Eurasia, earned the Purple Heart, a Ranger tab and the Combat Infantryman Badge, all before he served on the Joint Chiefs of Staff as a Russia expert when the Pentagon was writing its strategy to compete against near-peer adversaries.

Vindman now serves with President Donald Trump’s National Security Council, and he was subpoenaed to appear before Congress on Tuesday. He testified to impeachment investigators that he twice raised concerns over Trump’s push to have Ukraine investigate Democrats and 2020 presidential candidate Joe Biden.

======================

*Jennifer Williams.* Foreign Service Officer is also testifying.

*U.S. Department of State*

*Special Advisor for Europe and Russia, Office of the Vice President Pence (April 2019-present)*

Press Officer and Deputy Spokesperson at the U.S. Embassy, London, UK (July 2016-March 2019)

Graduate student, Princeton University, Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs, Master of Public Policy program (July 2015-May 2016)

Special Assistant to the Deputy Secretary of State (July 2014-July 2015)

Senior Syria Program Officer in the Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration (PRM) in Washington, D.C. (July 2013-June 2014)

Refugee Program Officer in the Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration (PRM) in Washington, D.C. (July 2011 - June 2013)

Assistant Public Affairs Officer at the U.S. Embassy, Beirut, Lebanon (June 2009 - 2011)

Vice Consul at the U.S. Embassy, Kingston, Jamaica (July 2006 - June 2008)

Special Advisor for Europe and Russia, Office of the Vice President (April 2019-present)

Press Officer and Deputy Spokesperson at the U.S. Embassy, London, UK (July 2016-March 2019)

Graduate student, Princeton University, Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs, Master of Public Policy program (July 2015-May 2016)

Special Assistant to the Deputy Secretary of State (July 2014-July 2015)

Senior Syria Program Officer in the Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration (PRM) in Washington, D.C. (July 2013-June 2014)

Refugee Program Officer in the Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration (PRM) in Washington, D.C. (July 2011 - June 2013)

Assistant Public Affairs Officer at the U.S. Embassy, Beirut, Lebanon (June 2009 - 2011)

Vice Consul at the U.S. Embassy, Kingston, Jamaica (July 2006 - June 2008)


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## Nilgiri




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## RabzonKhan

A new ABC/IPSOS poll found that 70% of Americans disapprove Trump’s actions with Ukraine. Looks like majority of Americans are not buying Trump and his cronies’ false propaganda.

Trump has repeatedly said he hasn’t done anything wrong…. Only 25% agree with him. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1190400372180807681
According to the poll:

· 70% said Trump's request was wrong.

· 25% think Trump did nothing wrong.

· 51% said his actions were both wrong and he should be impeached and removed from office.

· 19% think his actions were wrong and he should be impeached but not removed.

· 19% believe Trump should be neither impeached by the house or convicted by the Senate.

*Source*


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## RabzonKhan

One of the most important hearing. One of Trump’s point man, US Ambassador Gordon Sondland is throwing him under the bus:

*Ambassador Sondland: "Members of this Committee frequently frame these complicated issues in the form of a simple question: Was there a quid pro quo? ... With regard to the requested White House call and White House meeting, the answer is yes."*







*LIVE: House Impeachment Inquiry Hearing - . Ambassador Gordon Sondland Testimony*

Amb Gordon gave one million dollar to Trump’s campaign and in return Trump made him US ambassador to EU. Little did the poor Gordon knew what he was getting in. Today he had a choice either go to jail or to tell the truth, so far it looks like he's telling the truth. Trump and his cronies will have to come up with new lies. 

"Mr. Giuliani's requests were a *quid pro quo* for arranging a White House visit for Zelenskiy,' EU Ambassador Gordon Sondland testifies"

Trump just found out some of the details of Gordon’s testimony. This was his reaction:

"

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1197174357086351363


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## RabzonKhan

Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman’s reply draws applause at impeachment hearing. In reply to Democrat Rep. Sean Maloney of New York question, Lt. Col. Alexander said: “Congressman, because this is America. This is the country I have served and defended. That all my brothers have served. And here, right matters.”







Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney (D., N.Y.) opened his questioning of Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman by remarking, "This may be your first congressional hearing like this."

"Hopefully the last," quipped Col. Vindman.

After criticizing Republicans for their treatment of Col. Vindman, Mr. Maloney asked him how he felt when he listened to the July 25 call.

"There was probably an element of shock. ... my worst fears of how our Ukrainian policy could play out, was playing out," he said.

So you reported it, Mr. Maloney said.

"I did," Col. Vindman said. "Because that was my duty."

Mr. Maloney asked Col. Vindman to reread the part of his opening statement where he told his father not to worry about him. The congressman asked Col. Vindman why his father might be worried.

"He's deeply worried about it because in his context (in the Soviet Union) it was the ultimate risk," Col. Vindman said.

Mr. Maloney asked Col. Vindman why he told his father not to worry, that he would be fine by telling the truth.

"Congressman, because this is America," Col. Vindman said. "This is the country I've served and defended. That all my brothers have served. And here, right matters." Spontaneous applause broke out in the hearing room.

====================================

Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi, D-Ill., questioned Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, an Army officer who works for the National Security Council, and Jennifer Williams, an aide to Vice President Mike Pence, on Nov. 19, in a public hearing as part of the impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump. Vindman and Williams both listened in on a July phone call in which Trump asked the president of Ukraine to investigate former vice president and 2020 presidential candidate Joe Biden and his son, Hunter.






U.S. Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi of Schaumburg centered on insinuations against Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman's loyalties during the impeachment inquiry into whether President Donald Trump withheld military funding to Ukraine for political gains.

Vindman, the National Security Council director for Europe, testified Tuesday during a packed day of hearings for the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

"I am concerned that your loyalty has been questioned, not just because you're bringing forward evidence of wrongdoing against the president of the United States but because you're an immigrant," Krishnamoorthi said.

He quoted a Fox News host who said that, because Vindman immigrated from the former Soviet Union, he "tends to feel simpatico with Ukraine.'"

Krishnamoorthi said, "I find this statement reprehensible because it appears that your immigrant heritage is being used against you."

Vindman's family immigrated when he was 3½ years old; Krishnamoorthi came to the U.S. when he was an infant.

"I understand that your father worked multiple jobs while also learning English?" Krishnamoorthi asked. "Your father stressed the importance of embracing what it means to be an American, correct?"

"That is correct," Vindman said.

"From one immigrant American to another immigrant American, I want to say that you and your family represent the very best of America," Krishnamoorthi said.


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## Nilgiri




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## RabzonKhan

Keep in mind folks, almost everyone who have testified in the impeachment hearings works for Trump, but thank goodness their loyalties are with the United States of America. 

*LIVE: House Impeachment Inquiry Hearing*

*



*
Fiona Hill, a former National Security Council senior director for Europe and Russia, and David Holmes, counselor for political affairs at the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine testify at a House Intelligence Committee impeachment hearing.

==========

*Fiona Hill* is the former Deputy Assistant to the President Trump and Senior Director for Europe and Russia on the National Security Council staff. In this role, she is the lead interagency coordinator for U.S. foreign policy relating to Europe and Russia.

Prior to joining the NSC, from 2009-2017, Hill was a Senior Fellow and Director of the Center on the United States and Europe at The Brookings Institution.

From 2006 to 2009, she served as national intelligence officer for Russia and Eurasia at The National Intelligence Council. She is a frequent commentator on Russian and Eurasian affairs, and has researched and published extensively on issues related to Russia, the Caucasus, Central Asia, regional conflicts, energy, and strategic issues. She is co-author of the second edition of “Mr. Putin: Operative in the Kremlin” (Brookings Institution Press, 2015).

Hill holds a master’s in Soviet studies and a doctorate in history from Harvard University where she was a Frank Knox Fellow. She also holds a master’s in Russian and modern history from St. Andrews University in Scotland and has pursued studies at Moscow’s Maurice Thorez Institute of Foreign Languages.


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## RabzonKhan

Oh, my goodness, what have United States become under Trump. 

*Breaking News:* Lev Parnas an indicted associate of Trump’s long-term buddy/lawyer Rudy Giuliani was secretly working with Devin Nunes the top Republican ranking member of House intelligence committee to help get dirt on Joe Biden.

Lev Parnas and his partner Fruman were arrested a few weeks ago at Dallas International Airport with one-way tickets out of the country. Both of them are accused along with two other guys of funneling foreign money to Trump and other Republicans.

Just damn wow, Devin Nunes sat at the House intelligence committee impeachment hearing all this time knowing he himself is involved in this unlawful conspiracy.

Time for Nunes to immediately resign and openly testify to the House intelligence committee.







*Lev Parnas Says He Has Info on Devin Nunes’ Role in Trump’s Ukraine Dirt-Digging Mission
*
Lev Parnas, the Soviet-born businessman whose involvement in helping the president's personal attorney seek out kompromat on Joe Biden in Ukraine is at the center of an impeachment inquiry, is reportedly prepared to testify to Congress about Rep. Devin Nunes meeting with a Ukrainian official as part of the same dirt-digging mission.

Nunes, the top-ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, has been a staunch defender of President Trump throughout impeachment hearings. But Joseph A. Bondy, an attorney representing Parnas, has said his client has information about Nunes himself being directly involved in at least some aspects of the political pressure campaign for which Trump is under scrutiny, according to CNN.

The news comes after The Daily Beast broke the news earlier this week that Parnas helped Nunes arrange meetings in Europe late last year to investigate the origins of the Russia probe. 

Parnas has said he also helped connect Nunes to Ukrainians who could provide information on Biden and Democrats in Ukraine. According to Bondy, Parnas said he was informed by Ukraine's former top prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, that he met with Nunes in December, CNN reports. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

Nilgiri said:


>


Denying the truth doesn’t change the facts. 

There were a total of 12 witnesses at the impeachment hearing, including some Republican witnesses. Watch this Morning Joe mashup of the Key moments during the hearing:


----------



## RabzonKhan

*The Nation's Cartoonists On The Week In Politics




*


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## RabzonKhan

Republicans for the Rule of Law


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## RabzonKhan

Trump’s intervention on behalf of Gallagher and two other criminals has seriously undermined Military’s chain of command and justice. His actions send a very dangerous message to other criminals that is okay to commit war crimes, all you have to do is appear at the Fox News.

It is so pathetic that war criminals are awarded, and a patriot has to go.




Opinions
*Richard Spencer: I was fired as Navy secretary. Here’s what I’ve learned because of it.
*
By Richard Spencer 
November 27, 2019 
_*Richard Spencer is the former secretary of the Navy.*_

The case of Chief Petty Officer Edward Gallagher, a Navy SEAL who was charged with multiple war crimes before being convicted of a single lesser charge earlier this year, was troubling enough before things became even more troubling over the past few weeks. The trail of events that led to me being fired as secretary of the Navy is marked with lessons for me and for the nation.

*It is highly irregular for a secretary to become deeply involved in most personnel matters. Normally, military justice works best when senior leadership stays far away. A system that prevents command influence is what separates our armed forces from others. Our system of military justice has helped build the world’s most powerful navy; good leaders get promoted, bad ones get moved out, and criminals are punished.*

*In combat zones, the stakes are even higher. We train our forces to be both disciplined and lethal. We strive to use proportional force, protect civilians and treat detainees fairly. Ethical conduct is what sets our military apart. I have believed that every day since joining the Marine Corps in 1976.*

*We are effective overseas not because we have the best equipment but because we are professionals. Our troops are held to the highest standards. We expect those who lead our forces to exercise excellent judgment. The soldiers and sailors they lead must be able to count on that.*

Earlier this year, Gallagher was formally charged with more than a dozen criminal acts, including premeditated murder, which occurred during his eighth deployment overseas. He was tried in a military court in San Diego and acquitted in July of all charges, except one count of wrongfully posing for photographs with the body of a dead Islamic State fighter. The jury sentenced him to four months, the maximum possible; because he had served that amount of time waiting for trial, he was released.

*President Trump involved himself in the case almost from the start. Before the trial began, in March, I received two calls from the president asking me to lift Gallagher’s confinement in a Navy brig; I pushed back twice, because the presiding judge, acting on information about the accused’s conduct, had decided that confinement was important. Eventually, the president ordered me to have him transferred to the equivalent of an enlisted barracks. I came to believe that Trump’s interest in the case stemmed partly from the way the defendant’s lawyers and others had worked to keep it front and center in the media.*

After the verdict was delivered, the Navy’s normal process wasn’t finished. Gallagher had voluntarily submitted his request to retire. In his case, there were three questions: Would he be permitted to retire at the rank of chief, which is also known as an E-7? (The jury had said he should be busted to an E-6, a demotion.) The second was: Should he be allowed to leave the service with an “honorable” or “general under honorable” discharge? And a third: Should he be able to keep his Trident pin, the medal all SEALs wear and treasure as members of an elite force?

*On Nov. 14, partly because the president had already contacted me twice, I sent him a note asking him not to get involved in these questions. The next day, White House Counsel Pat Cipollone called me and said the president would remain involved. Shortly thereafter, I received a second call from Cipollone, who said the president would order me to restore Gallagher to the rank of chief.

This was a shocking and unprecedented intervention in a low-level review. It was also a reminder that the president has very little understanding of what it means to be in the military, to fight ethically or to be governed by a uniform set of rules and practices.*

Given my desire to resolve a festering issue, I tried to find a way that would prevent the president from further involvement while trying all avenues to get Gallagher’s file in front of a peer-review board. Why? The Naval Special Warfare community owns the Trident pin, not the secretary of the Navy, not the defense secretary, not even the president. If the review board concluded that Gallagher deserved to keep it, so be it.

I also began to work without personally consulting Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper on every step. That was, I see in retrospect, a mistake for which I am solely responsible.

On Nov. 19, I briefed Esper’s chief of staff concerning my plan. I briefed acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney that evening.

The next day, the Navy established a review board to decide the status of Gallagher’s Trident pin. According to long-standing procedure, a group of four senior enlisted SEALs would rule on the question. This was critical: It would be Gallagher’s peers managing their own community. The senior enlisted ranks in our services are the foundation of good order and discipline.

*But the question was quickly made moot: On Nov. 21, the president tweeted that Gallagher would be allowed to keep his pin — Trump’s third intervention in the case. I recognized that the tweet revealed the president’s intent. But I did not believe it to be an official order, chiefly because every action taken by the president in the case so far had either been a verbal or written command.*

The rest is history. We must now move on and learn from what has transpired. The public should know that we have extensive screening procedures in place to assess the health and well-being of our forces. But we must keep fine-tuning those procedures to prevent a case such as this one from happening again.

More importantly, Americans need to know that 99.9 percent of our uniformed members always have, always are and always will make the right decision. Our allies need to know that we remain a force for good, and to please bear with us as we move through this moment in time. *Source*


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## RabzonKhan

*Explainer: How does impeachment of a U.S. president work? *

*By Jan Wolfe* 12/2/2019 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. House of Representatives Judiciary Committee is scheduled to hold its first impeachment hearing on Dec. 4, starting a new phase of the inquiry that could lead to formal charges against President Donald Trump within weeks.

The following explains the basics of impeachment, what happens next, and why Trump is unlikely to be removed from office.


*WHY IMPEACHMENT?*

The founders of the United States feared presidents abusing their powers, so they included in the Constitution a process for removing one from office.

The president, under the Constitution, can be removed from office for "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

High crimes and misdemeanors has historically encompassed corruption and abuses of the public trust, as opposed to just indictable violations of criminal statutes.

Former President Gerald Ford, while in Congress, famously said: "An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history."

No president has ever been removed as a direct result of impeachment. One, Richard Nixon, resigned before he could be removed. Two, Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton, were impeached by the House but not convicted by the Senate.


*HOW DOES IT WORK?*

Impeachment begins in the House, the lower chamber, which debates and votes on whether to bring charges against the president via approval of an impeachment resolution, or "articles of impeachment," by a simple majority of the body's members.

The Constitution gives House leaders wide latitude in deciding how to conduct impeachment proceedings, legal experts said.

The House Intelligence Committee has conducted an investigation into whether Trump abused his power to pressure Ukraine to launch investigations that would benefit him politically, holding weeks of closed-door testimony and televised hearings. The panel is expected to release a formal evidence report shortly after lawmakers return to Congress on Dec. 3 from their Thanksgiving recess.

The Judiciary panel will use the report to consider formal charges that could form the basis of a full House impeachment vote by the end of December.

If the House approves articles of impeachment, a trial is then held in the Senate. House members act as the prosecutors; the senators as jurors; the chief justice of the Supreme Court presides. Historically, the president has been allowed to have defense lawyers call witnesses and request documents.

*CAN THE SENATE REFUSE TO HOLD A TRIAL?*

There is debate about whether the Constitution requires a Senate trial. But Senate rules currently in effect require a trial, and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has publicly stated that he will allow one to proceed.

Republicans could seek to amend those rules, but such a move is politically risky and considered unlikely, legal experts said.

*WHAT ABOUT OPENING A TRIAL AND QUICKLY ENDING IT?*

The Senate rules allow members to file, before the conclusion of the trial, motions to dismiss the charges against the president. If such a motion passes by a simple majority the impeachment proceedings effectively end.

Clinton's Senate impeachment trial, which did not end in a conviction, lasted five weeks. Halfway through the proceedings, a Democratic senator introduced a motion to dismiss, which was voted down.

*WHAT'S THE PARTY BREAKDOWN IN CONGRESS?*

The House comprises 431 members, 233 of whom are Democrats. As a result, the Democrats could impeach Trump with no Republican support.

In 1998, when Republicans had a House majority, the chamber voted largely along party lines to impeach Clinton, a Democrat.

The Senate now has 53 Republicans, 45 Democrats and two independents who usually vote with the Democrats. Conviction and removal of a president would require a two-thirds majority. So, for Trump to be removed from office via impeachment, in the case of all 100 senators voting, at least 20 Republicans and all the Democrats and independents would have to vote against him. 

*WHO BECOMES PRESIDENT IF TRUMP IS REMOVED?*

In the unlikely event the Senate convicted Trump, Vice President Mike Pence would become president for the remainder of Trump's term, which ends on Jan. 20, 2021.

(Reporting by Jan Wolfe, editing by Ross Colvin and Nick Zieminski) *Source*


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## RabzonKhan

NATO leaders were having a good time at the Buckingham Palace making fun of Trump. No one mentions his name, but they seem to be discussing his BS press conference from earlier in the day.

Can you blame them. 

*
World leaders and Princess Anne filmed apparently 'mocking' Trump*

A video filmed at a reception held at Buckingham Palace on the first day of the NATO conference appears to show *prime ministers Justin Trudeau of Canada, Boris Johnson of the UK, Mark Rutte of the Netherlands, President Emmanuel Macron of France and Princess Anne, the Princess Royal, laughing about Donald Trump's press conference.*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1202208471891865600
"

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1202008162997538817


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## RabzonKhan

Phase 2 of Trump's impeachment:


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## RabzonKhan

*Phase 3 of Impeachment hearing:*

*House Judiciary Committee Impeachment Inquiry Evidence Hearing*


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## RabzonKhan

Nancy Pelosi, flanked by other high-ranking Democrats, said they were upholding their solemn oath to defend the US Constitution announced two articles of impeachment (Abuse of Power and Obstruction of Congress) against Trump, declaring he "betrayed the nation" as they pushed toward historic proceedings.

Trump deserves it he left them with no other option.


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## RabzonKhan

The Democrat led House Judiciary Committee today (12/13/2019) voted on two articles of impeachment against Trump. They adopted both articles, alleging obstruction of Congress and abuse of power with 23 – 17 votes. Now the impeachment heads to full house vote, which is expected next week after that historic vote impeachment trial will finally moves to Republican-controlled Senate.



*THIS IS THE THIRD IMPEACHMENT I'VE WORKED ON. IT'S BY FAR THE MOST SERIOUS | OPINION*

ZOE LOFGREN , U.S. REPRESENTATIVE OF CALIFORNIA
ON 12/13/19

*I find myself in a unique position. I'm the only member of Congress who has participated in the Judiciary Committee for all three modern impeachment proceedings. This is not something I planned on. It is not something I'm happy about. Impeachment is a grave and solemn matter. It's a stress test for our democracy.*

*Sadly, President Donald Trump's actions have damaged our national security, undermined the integrity of the next election and violated his oath of office. His actions have brought impeachment back to the forefront of the national conversation and have made me think long and hard about the other two presidential cases that I worked on.*

In 1974, during the Nixon impeachment, I was on the staff of my predecessor Congressman Don Edwards, who was on the House Judiciary Committee. I was a law student at the time; I came back to Washington, D.C., to work on a bankruptcy bill, and I got pulled into the vortex that was impeachment. I was assigned to write one of the Articles of Impeachment (on the Cambodia bombing, as requested by Representative John Conyers, that didn't pass out of committee). I had the profound opportunity to have a bird's-eye view of the proceedings.

I'll never forget the impact on Representative Chuck Wiggins—one of the most vigorous defenders of President Richard Nixon—when he confronted the fact that Nixon had lied to him. *And I'll never forget when my boss at the time explained impeachment to his colleagues by saying how "[our founders] recognized the frightening power that the president has, that we give the president, and the grave danger to the republic should he abuse it."*

*Edwards correctly specified that the grave danger must be "to the republic," since he understood that a presidential offense is only impeachable if it upsets the constitutional order and threatens the republic itself.*

*Nixon abused presidential powers to improperly influence the election, he covered up his actions using the FBI and the CIA, and, thereafter, he rightfully resigned the presidency.* *In the case of Trump, not only has he similarly abused his power to improperly put his thumb on the scale of the election, he used a foreign power to do it. George Washington would likely be astonished by that behavior, since he forewarned us "against the insidious wiles of foreign influence."*

*In the case of President Bill Clinton in 1998, there was no foreign interference, no election meddling and no attempt to subvert our Constitution. I was a member of the Judiciary Committee at the time of the Clinton proceedings, and it was clear to me that the president's marital dishonesty would not destroy our constitutional form of government. Lying about sex is not an abuse of presidential power (though, maybe, husband power), and, certainly, Trump may have done the same thing Clinton was accused of when it comes to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal.* But that has no more to do with the abuse of presidential power than it did in Clinton's case.

Back in the 1990s, I urged my Republican colleagues not to damage the American people's faith in our democracy and undo an election simply because they disapproved of Clinton and his lies about an affair. He abused the trust of his wife; he didn't abuse his presidential power. Unfortunately, they didn't listen, and that, in part, helped create the atmosphere for the antics, untruths and an emboldened president wielding unchecked power that subverts the Constitution we're seeing today. *It's important to remember: Impeachment is not about punishing the president; it is about protecting the American people from constitutional violations so extreme they threaten the country's future.*

The facts in front of us now are clear: They show Trump made official acts—millions in life-saving military aid for an active war zone and a coveted White House meeting showing support against Russia—conditional on political favors for himself in the 2020 election. Trump continues to solicit foreign interference in our election for his personal political gain. He's not contrite. He hasn't promised to stop. Instead, he continues his improper abuse of presidential power. We're left with no choice but to proceed with impeachment, the constitutional remedy for the most serious of offenses that threaten our democracy.

*Never before in our country's history has a president simply refused to provide all documents to Congress or to order that no one in the executive branch testify. His obstruction of Congress is unprecedented—and claims of absolute immunity or the assertion of complete privilege go against our Constitution. If allowed to stand, it would fundamentally change the balance of power between our three branches of government. It would prevent Congress from conducting needed oversight of this president or any other in the future.*

In the past few weeks, I've received many questions about how this impeachment process compares with the two I experienced before. Answer: Unfortunately, this case is far worse. *But there's a different question I've been asking myself: What would my reaction be if these allegations and this set of facts were against the president of my own party? And I can say with certainty that if a Democratic president did what Trump very clearly appears to have done, I would be over at the White House saying, "You should resign."*

_Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren is a U.S. representative of California's 19th District and a senior member of the House Judiciary Committee. _*Source*


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## RabzonKhan

Today is a historic day. The House of Representatives will vote to impeach a president for only the third time in history.



*More than 700 scholars sign letter urging House to impeach Trump*
Felicia Sonmez, The Washington Post

A group of more than 700 historians, legal scholars and others published an open letter Monday urging the House of Representatives to impeach President Donald Trump, denouncing his conduct as "a clear and present danger to the Constitution."

The letter's release comes two days before the House is expected to vote on two articles of impeachment.

*"President Trump's lawless obstruction of the House of Representatives, which is rightly seeking documents and witness testimony in pursuit of its constitutionally-mandated oversight role, has demonstrated brazen contempt for representative government,"* the scholars write in the letter, which was published online by the nonprofit advocacy group Protect Democracy.

*"So have his attempts to justify that obstruction on the grounds that the executive enjoys absolute immunity, a fictitious doctrine that, if tolerated, would turn the president into an elected monarch above the law," they add.*

*Protect Democracy also released a letter earlier this month from more than 500 law professors asserting that Trump had committed "impeachable conduct."*

Among the notable signatories of the latest letter are award-winning filmmaker Ken Burns, biographer Robert Caro and historians Ron Chernow, Jon Meacham and Douglas Brinkley.

In the letter, the scholars criticize Trump's "numerous and flagrant abuses of power" and state that his actions "urgently and justly require his impeachment."

"As Alexander Hamilton wrote in The Federalist, impeachment was designed to deal with 'the misconduct of public men' which involves 'the abuse or violation of some public trust,' " they wrote.

"*Collectively, the President's offenses, including his dereliction in protecting the integrity of the 2020 election from Russian disinformation and renewed interference, arouse once again the Framers' most profound fears that powerful members of government would become, in Hamilton's words, 'the mercenary instruments of foreign corruption,' "* they add. "It is our considered judgment that if President Trump's misconduct does not rise to the level of impeachment, then virtually nothing does." *Source*

*

'What is Trump hiding?': Republican billboard aims at Trump's impeachment defiance*







The Republicans for the Rule of Law debuted an impeachment-based digital billboard in Times Square asking “What is (President Donald) Trump hiding?”

The billboard comes as the entire House is expected to hold a vote on the two articles of impeachment towards the president —abuse of power and obstruction of Congress charges.

The ad takes direct aim at the latter charge, featuring current and former Trump administration officials who were involved in the Ukraine scandal and yet did not comply with congressional subpoenas to testify.

Sporting duct tape over their mouths on the billboard include Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, former national security adviser John Bolton, acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney and Rudy Giuliani, Trump’s personal attorney.

The president is displayed as hushing these individuals on the billboard.

The Trump administration has directed aides and agencies to defy subpoenas for documents and testimony, although some officials still testified. The defiance is what led to the accusation of obstruction of Congress. Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler, D-N.Y., said Trump's refusal to cooperate with any congressional subpoena was worse than any president in history, including Nixon. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

Democracy at Work.


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## pkuser2k12



Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## RabzonKhan

Trump was Impeached! Good for the country. 







*Key Moments: The Day the House Impeached Trump*

*The historic votes charged the president with “high crimes and misdemeanors” in connection with a Ukraine pressure campaign. Mr. Trump became the third sitting president in history to be impeached.*

By Michael D. Shear and Peter Baker

*The House has impeached Trump for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress, sending the case to the Senate for trial.*

The House of Representatives on Wednesday impeached President Trump, charging him with “high crimes and misdemeanors” and making him the third president in history to face removal by the Senate.

The votes on two articles of impeachment — abuse of power and obstruction of Congress — fell largely along party lines, after about eight hours of contentious debate that underscored the deep divisions in the country and among its representatives.

All but two Democrats supported the article on abuse of power, which accused Mr. Trump of using the power of his office to pressure Ukraine’s government to announce investigations that could discredit his political rivals. The vote was 230 to 197.

A third Democrat, Representative Jared Golden of Maine, joined with Republicans in opposing the obstruction of Congress charge. The vote was 229 to 198.


No Republicans voted in favor of either article of impeachment. Representative Justin Amash, Independent of Michigan, voted for both articles.

Representative Tulsi Gabbard, Democrat of Hawaii, who is running for president, voted “present” on both articles of impeachment. She said in a statement that she could not “in good conscience” vote either yes or no.






“I am standing in the center and have decided to vote present. I could not in good conscience vote against impeachment because I believe President Trump is guilty of wrongdoing,” she said.

She added, “I also could not in good conscience vote for impeachment because removal of a sitting president must not be the culmination of a partisan process, fueled by tribal animosities that have so gravely divided our country.”

A historic trial in the Senate is expected to begin early next year, giving senators the final say on whether to acquit the 45th president or convict and remove him from office. Acquittal in the Republican-controlled chamber is likely. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

*Children Speak Out About Donald Trump





*We've heard a lot from a lot of people about this election so far. We've heard from pundits, surrogates, experts and anchors, but we haven't yet heard from kids. So we went out on the street to ask children to give us their thoughts on our next President, Donald Trump.

*We Ask Kids How Trump is Doing*





It has been almost a year since the inauguration of Donald Trump and his positive approval rating is at 37% among adults. Jimmy wanted to see what kids thought of his first year in office so we stopped some on the street and asked them how they think he is doing.


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## RabzonKhan

Opinions
*Jeff Flake: The president is on trial. So are my Senate Republican colleagues.*

*



*Jeff Flake. (Laura Segall/The Washington Post)

By Jeff Flake 
Dec. 20, 2019 at 2:40 p.m. PST


*Jeff Flake, a Republican, represented Arizona in the U.S. Senate from 2013 to 2019. He is a resident fellow at Harvard University and a contributor to CBS News.*

To my former Senate Republican colleagues,

I don’t envy you.

It might not be fair, but none of the successes, achievements and triumphs you’ve had in public office — whatever bills you’ve passed, hearings you’ve chaired, constituents you have had the privilege of helping — will matter more than your actions in the coming months. 

*President Trump is on trial. But in a very real sense, so are you. And so is the political party to which we belong.*

*As we approach the time when you do your constitutional duty and weigh the evidence arrayed against the president, I urge you to remember who we are when we are at our best. And I ask you to remember yourself at your most idealistic.*

We are conservatives. The political impulses that compelled us all to enter public life were defined by sturdy pillars anchored deep in the American story. Chief among these is a realistic view of power and of human nature, and a corresponding and healthy mistrust of concentrated and impervious executive power. Mindful of the base human instincts that we all possess, the founders of our constitutional system designed its very architecture to curb excesses of power.

*Those curbs are especially important when the power is wielded by a president who denies reality itself and calls his behavior not what it is, but “perfect.”*

*Personally, I have never met anyone whose behavior can be described as perfect, but so often has the president repeated this obvious untruth that it has become a form of dogma in our party. And sure enough, as dogma demands, there are members of our party denying objective reality by repeating the line that “the president did nothing wrong.” My colleagues, the danger of an untruthful president is compounded when an equal branch follows that president off the cliff, into the abyss of unreality and untruth.*

Call it the founders’ blind spot: They simply could not have envisioned the Article I branch abetting and enabling such dangerous behavior in the Article II branch. And when we are complicit, we cede our constitutional responsibilities, we forever redefine the relationship between Congress and the White House, and we set the most dangerous of precedents.

*My simple test for all of us: What if President Barack Obama had engaged in precisely the same behavior? I know the answer to that question with certainty, and so do you. You would have understood with striking clarity the threat it posed, and you would have known exactly what to do.*

Regarding the articles of impeachment, you could reasonably conclude that the president’s actions warrant his removal. You might also determine that the president’s actions do not rise to the constitutional standard required for removal. There is no small amount of moral hazard with each option, but both positions can be defended. 

*But what is indefensible is echoing House Republicans who say that the president has not done anything wrong. He has.

The willingness of House Republicans to bend to the president’s will by attempting to shift blame with the promotion of bizarre and debunked conspiracy theories has been an appalling spectacle. It will have long-term ramifications for the country and the party, to say nothing of individual reputations. *

Nearly all of you condemned the president’s behavior during the 2016 campaign. Nearly all of you refused to campaign with him. You knew then that doing so would be wrong — would be a stain on your reputation and the standing of the Republican Party, and would do lasting damage to the conservative cause.

Ask yourself today: Has the president changed his behavior? Has he grown in office? Has the mantle of the presidency altered his conduct? The answer is obvious. In fact, if the president’s political rally in Michigan on Wednesday is any measure, his language has only become more vulgar, his performance cruder, his behavior more boorish and unstable.

*Next, ask yourself: If the president’s conduct hasn’t changed, has mine? Before President Trump came on the scene, would I have stood at a rally and cheered while supporters shouted “lock her up” or “send them back”? Would I have laughed along while the president demeaned and ridiculed my colleagues? Would I have ever thought to warm up the crowd for the president by saying of the House speaker: “It must suck to be that dumb”?*

As I said above, I don’t envy you. You’re on a big stage now. Please don’t accept an alternate reality that would have us believe in things that obviously are not true, in the service of executive behavior that we never would have encouraged and a theory of executive power that we have always found abhorrent.

*If there ever was a time to put country over party, it is now. And by putting country over party, you might just save the Grand Old Party before it’s too late. *


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## RabzonKhan

Thank goodness, at last, a prominent Evangelical publication says Trump should be impeached and removed from the office. White Evangelical are Trump’s strongest supporters, almost 81 percent voted for him in 2016. Every bit helps.


EDITORIAL
*Trump Should Be Removed from Office*

*It’s time to say what we said 20 years ago when a president’s character was revealed for what it was.*

*MARK GALLI* DECEMBER 19, 2019

In our founding documents, Billy Graham explains that _Christianity Today_ will help evangelical Christians interpret the news in a manner that reflects their faith. The impeachment of Donald Trump is a significant event in the story of our republic. It requires comment.

The typical CT approach is to stay above the fray and allow Christians with different political convictions to make their arguments in the public square, to encourage all to pursue justice according to their convictions and treat their political opposition as charitably as possible. We want CT to be a place that welcomes Christians from across the political spectrum, and reminds everyone that politics is not the end and purpose of our being. We take pride in the fact, for instance, that politics does not dominate our homepage.

That said, we do feel it necessary from time to time to make our own opinions on political matters clear—always, as Graham encouraged us, doing so with both conviction and love. We love and pray for our president, as we love and pray for leaders (as well as ordinary citizens) on both sides of the political aisle.

Let’s grant this to the president: The Democrats have had it out for him from day one, and therefore nearly everything they do is under a cloud of partisan suspicion. This has led many to suspect not only motives but facts in these recent impeachment hearings. And, no, Mr. Trump did not have a serious opportunity to offer his side of the story in the House hearings on impeachment.

*But the facts in this instance are unambiguous: The president of the United States attempted to use his political power to coerce a foreign leader to harass and discredit one of the president’s political opponents. That is not only a violation of the Constitution; more importantly, it is profoundly immoral.*

*The reason many are not shocked about this is that this president has dumbed down the idea of morality in his administration. He has hired and fired a number of people who are now convicted criminals. He himself has admitted to immoral actions in business and his relationship with women, about which he remains proud. His Twitter feed alone—with its habitual string of mischaracterizations, lies, and slanders—is a near perfect example of a human being who is morally lost and confused.*

*Trump’s evangelical supporters have pointed to his Supreme Court nominees, his defense of religious liberty, and his stewardship of the economy, among other things, as achievements that justify their support of the president. We believe the impeachment hearings have made it absolutely clear, in a way the Mueller investigation did not, that President Trump has abused his authority for personal gain and betrayed his constitutional oath. The impeachment hearings have illuminated the president’s moral deficiencies for all to see. This damages the institution of the presidency, damages the reputation of our country, and damages both the spirit and the future of our people. None of the president’s positives can balance the moral and political danger we face under a leader of such grossly immoral character.*

This concern for the character of our national leader is not new in CT. In 1998, we wrote this:

The President's failure to tell the truth—even when cornered—rips at the fabric of the nation. This is not a private affair. For above all, social intercourse is built on a presumption of trust: trust that the milk your grocer sells you is wholesome and pure; trust that the money you put in your bank can be taken out of the bank; trust that your babysitter, firefighters, clergy, and ambulance drivers will all do their best. And while politicians are notorious for breaking campaign promises, while in office they have a fundamental obligation to uphold our trust in them and to live by the law.

And this:

Unsavory dealings and immoral acts by the President and those close to him have rendered this administration morally unable to lead.

Unfortunately, the words that we applied to Mr. Clinton 20 years ago apply almost perfectly to our current president. Whether Mr. Trump should be removed from office by the Senate or by popular vote next election—that is a matter of prudential judgment. That he should be removed, we believe, is not a matter of partisan loyalties but loyalty to the Creator of the Ten Commandments.

*To the many evangelicals who continue to support Mr. Trump in spite of his blackened moral record, we might say this: Remember who you are and whom you serve. Consider how your justification of Mr. Trump influences your witness to your Lord and Savior. Consider what an unbelieving world will say if you continue to brush off Mr. Trump’s immoral words and behavior in the cause of political expediency. If we don’t reverse course now, will anyone take anything we say about justice and righteousness with any seriousness for decades to come?* Can we say with a straight face that abortion is a great evil that cannot be tolerated and, with the same straight face, say that the bent and broken character of our nation’s leader doesn’t really matter in the end?

We have reserved judgment on Mr. Trump for years now. Some have criticized us for our reserve. But when it comes to condemning the behavior of another, patient charity must come first. So we have done our best to give evangelical Trump supporters their due, to try to understand their point of view, to see the prudential nature of so many political decisions they have made regarding Mr. Trump. To use an old cliché, it’s time to call a spade a spade, to say that no matter how many hands we win in this political poker game, we are playing with a stacked deck of gross immorality and ethical incompetence. And just when we think it’s time to push all our chips to the center of the table, that’s when the whole game will come crashing down. It will crash down on the reputation of evangelical religion and on the world’s understanding of the gospel. And it will come crashing down on a nation of men and women whose welfare is also our concern. *Source*


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## RabzonKhan

*The News In Cartoons 







*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## RabzonKhan

Joe Biden holds a strong lead among black voters, new poll conducted by the Washington Post/Ipsos shows.

Trump on the other hand trails all Democrats in a hypothetical head to head matchup in the poll, he only has support of 4 to 5% black voters. 







Former vice president Joe Biden is far and away the favored candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination among black Americans, boosted by his personal popularity, his service in the Obama administration and perceptions that he is best equipped to defeat President Trump, according to a national Washington Post-Ipsos poll.

The results, highlighting the views of a group that historically has played a significant role in determining the outcome of the Democratic nominating contest, help to explain the enduring strength of Biden’s candidacy. Despite questions about his age, his past positions on forced school busing and his relationships with Southern segregationist senators, the poll shows that 48 percent of black Democrats favor him for the nomination — a 28-point advantage over Sanders.

Biden “is the candidate that can try to get this country back on track, because we are way out of control,” said Eula Woodberry, a retired school district budget analyst in Dallas, where she still lives. “He’s levelheaded. I think he’s experienced, and I think he will look at the big picture. . . . He’s the type of person who can serve as the nucleus to bring people back together.”

Edward Phillips, 52, a former legal assistant who lives in New York City, called Biden a “known face,” adding, “You know he was vice president under [President Barack] Obama. You know his experience. I trust him. I believe him. I think he’s the only person among the Democrats who can defeat Trump.”

The survey, conducted by The Post and the nonpartisan research firm Ipsos, is one of the most extensive studies to date of views on the 2020 campaign among black voters, who, like other minority groups, are often represented by only small samples in customary national polls. It was conducted among 1,088 non-Hispanic black adults, including 900 registered voters, drawn from a large online survey panel recruited through random sampling of U.S. households. *Read more*


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## PeaceGen

Trump readies impeachment defense with eye on scoring political wins
Pat Cipollone, the top White House lawyer, spent the weekend working from his office on the second floor of the West Wing, preparing to defend a client who, at one point, was on the second floor of the executive residence suggesting the impeachment charges against him should be dismissed outright.





Local : 2020-01-13(Monday) 21:02:10
Found via nicer.app/news

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## RabzonKhan

*Senate opens impeachment trial against President Trump: Chief Justice John Roberts sworn in*

Bart Jansen Christal Hayes *and* Nicholas Wu
*USA TODAY

WASHINGTON – Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts was sworn in Thursday to preside over the Senate impeachment trial of President Donald Trump.
*
Roberts, wearing his black judicial robe, was escorted into the chamber by four senators. The two Republicans were Sens. Roy Blunt of Missouri, the chairman of the Rules Committee, and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee. The Democrats were Sens. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., the longest-serving senator, and Dianne Feinstein of California, the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee.

“Senators I attend the Senate in conformity with your notice for the purpose of joining with you for the trial of the president of the United States," Roberts said after arriving. “I am now prepared to take the oath."

The longest-serving Republican, Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa, administered the oath to Roberts. "God bless you," Grassley said afterward. "Thank you," Roberts replied.

A roll call of senators sitting at their mahogany desks was held before Roberts arrived. After he was sworn in, Roberts recited the trial oath to swear in senators, who stood at their desks and raised their right hands.

"Do you solemnly swear that in all things appertaining to the trial of the impeachment of Donald John Trump, president of the United States now pending, you will do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws, so help you God?" Roberts asked.

"I do," senators replied in unison. Senators were then called in alphabetical order by their last names to sign the oath book.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., recited unanimous agreements setting deadlines for trial documents. The House has until 5 p.m. Saturday to file its trial brief, the White House until noon Monday to file its trial brief and the House until noon Tuesday to file its rebuttal.

"The Senate sitting as court of impeachment is adjourned until Tuesday Jan. 21 at 1 p.m.," Roberts said in gaveling the session closed.

*Seven House lawmakers, who are called managers and who will prosecute the case against Trump, carried the articles of impeachment to the Senate on Thursday and read the charges aloud to formally begin the third trial of a sitting president.*






The House managers were recognized at 12:06 p.m. and were escorted to the well of the Senate. The lead manager, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, D-Calif., then read the articles aloud as senators sat at their mahogany desks.

*Senators find ceremonial start to trial 'sobering'*

Feinstein said after the 15-minute session it felt “sobering” to sit on the floor as Schiff spoke.

“Until you're in that chamber and it's totally filled, and there's something stark and unusual before you, it’s sort of business as usual,” she said. “And then you go in to this stark and unusual procedure. And it's a very major endeavor.”

Many senators studiously took notes on yellow legal pads or notebooks from their desks.

“They help me remember the information that's being presented," said Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, D-N.Y. "I was a note taker in school so I like to write as I listen."

Sen. Amy Klobuchar, D-Minn., also jotted down notes, explaining that they could come in handy later – both for her and her colleagues.

“I was just writing everything down because this is important proceeding. I'm a lawyer, former prosecutor,” Klobuchar said. “I like to write notes and one of the things you find out when you write everything down is then everyone comes over and says, ‘What did they just say.’”

*One of the managers, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler, D-N.Y., said after returning to the House that it wouldn't be a proper trial without calling witnesses. Senators aren't expected to make a decision about calling witnesses until after the House managers and White House lawyers give their opening arguments and senators pose written questions.*

“I hope the senators have open minds, but the proof is so airtight,” Nadler said. “The fact that they are seriously saying they don’t want to hear witnesses and they may not want to hear witnesses, is a sign that they are trying to conduct a cover up."

The ceremonial start of the trial came amid heightened security throughout the Capitol. As the managers carried the articles through the Rotunda, the area beneath the central dome that is typically full of tourists on a weekday, was entirely cleared of people except for reporters and a few lawmakers who came to watch.

Security was tightened as the impeachment articles made their way from the House to the Senate for a second time. Many more Capitol Police stood guard in the corridors, some of whom did random checks of press badges for reporters.

*Pelosi: Trump administration 'broke law'*

*House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., cited a government watchdog report Thursday for finding that the Trump administration's Office of Management and Budget (OMB) violated federal law by withholding congressionally approved military aid for Ukraine.*

“The OMB, the White House, the administration – I'm saying this – broke the law," Pelosi said.

*Trump withheld $391 million from Ukraine, while urging that country to investigate his political rival, which became a central element of the articles of impeachment against the president. The Government Accountability Office report found that because the money was suspended for a policy reason rather than a programmatic reason, that it wasn't allowed under the Impoundment Control Act.*

Trump has said he was justified in fighting corruption in Ukraine.

"This reinforces again the need for documents and eyewitnesses in the Senate," Pelosi said.

*Read more*


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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

Moscow Mitch is shamelessly doing everything to undermine the impeachment trial. Without documents and witnesses is not a trial, it’s a cover-up.


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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

During the 2016 election "very stable genius" promised that if he becomes the president the world will respect us and no one will dare to laugh at the us. 

He also once tweeted back in 2014:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/498008486551506945

The world laughs at him:





Our NATO allies laughs at him:





Our enemies laughs at him:


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## Pakistani Fighter

RabzonKhan said:


> During the 2016 election "very stable genius" promised that if he becomes the president the world will respect us and no one will dare to laugh at the us.
> 
> He also once tweeted back in 2014:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/498008486551506945
> 
> The world laughs at him:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our NATO allies laughs at him:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our enemies laughs at him:


Republicans have more members in Senate. How will impeachment trial begin?


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## RabzonKhan

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Republicans have more members in Senate. How will impeachment trial begin?


Trump’s impeachment trial in the Senate already kicked off on January 16.

Here’s how it works:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/...hment-trial-process-how-the-rules-work-098226


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## -=virus=-

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump’s impeachment trial in the Senate already kicked off on January 16.
> 
> Here’s how it works:
> 
> https://www.politico.com/news/2020/...hment-trial-process-how-the-rules-work-098226


He's headed to and for a landslide win in November, watch !


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## RabzonKhan

Adam Schiff’s rocks, his brilliant presentation is crushing Trump defense.


*"Donald Trump must be convicted and removed from office. 

Because he will always choose his own personal interest over our national interest. 

Because in America, right matters. Truth matters. 

If not, no Constitution can protect us. 

If not, we are lost."*



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1219712994168442881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1219740237271851011

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1219784258631479297

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220134439059103749

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220189022603169792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220559375938609152


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## RabzonKhan

Judge Andrew Napolitano is a senior judicial analyst at the Fox News, also known as Trump News.


*Judge Andrew Napolitano: Trump's Senate impeachment trial -- What does it take to remove a president?*

I don't blame President Trump for his angst and bitterness over his impeachment by the House of Representatives. In his mind, he has done "nothing wrong" and not acted outside the constitutional powers vested in him and so his impeachment should not have come to pass. *He believes that the president can legally extract personal concessions from the recipients of foreign aid, and he also believes that he can legally order his subordinates to ignore congressional subpoenas.*
*
Hence, his public denunciations of his Senate trial as a charade, a joke and a hoax. His trial is not a charade or a joke or a hoax. It is deadly serious business based on well-established constitutional norms.*

*The House of Representatives -- in proceedings in which the president chose not to participate -- impeached Trump for abuse of power and contempt of Congress. The abuse consists of his efforts to extract a personal political "favor" from the president of Ukraine as a precondition to the delivery of $391 million in military aid. The favor he wanted was an announcement of a Ukrainian investigation of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden and his son Hunter.*

*The Government Accountability Office -- a nonpartisan entity in the federal government that monitors how the feds spend tax revenue -- has concluded that Trump's request for a favor was a violation of law because only Congress can impose conditions on government expenditures. So, when the president did that, he usurped Congress' role and acted unlawfully.*

But, did he act criminally? Is it constitutionally necessary for the House to point to a specific federal crime committed by the president in order to impeach him and trigger a Senate trial?

The Constitution prescribes the bases for impeachment as treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors. However, this use of the word "crimes" does not refer to violations of federal criminal statutes. It refers to behavior that is so destructive of the constitutional order that it is the moral equivalent of statutory crimes.

For example, as others have suggested, if the president moved to Russia and ran the executive branch from there, or if he announced that Roman Catholics were unfit for office, he would not have committed any crimes. Yet, surely, these acts would be impeachable because, when done by the president, they are the moral equivalent of crimes and are so far removed from constitutional norms as to be impeachable.

In Trump's case, though the House chose delicately not to accuse the president of specific crimes, there is enough evidence here to do so. Federal election laws proscribe as criminal the mere solicitation of help for a political campaign from a foreign national or government. There is no dispute that Trump did this. *In fact, the case for this is stronger now than it was when the House impeached him last year. Since then, more evidence, which Trump tried to suppress, has come to light.

That evidence consists of administration officials' emails that were obtained by the media pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act. Those emails demonstrate conclusively that Trump ordered a halt on the release of the $391 million within minutes of his favor request, and the aid sat undistributed until congressional pressure became too much for Trump to bear.*

This implicates two other crimes. One is bribery -- the refusal to perform a government obligation until a thing of value is delivered, whether the thing of value -- here, the announcement of a Ukrainian investigation of the Bidens -- arrives or not. The other is contempt of Congress.

*If the request for the announcement of an investigation of the Bidens manifested "nothing wrong" as Trump has claimed, why did he whisper it in secret, rather than order it of the Department of Justice?*

When the House Select Committee on Intelligence sought the emails unearthed by the press and then sought testimony from their authors, *Trump thumbed his nose at the House. Instead of complying with House subpoenas or challenging them in court, Trump's folks threw them in a drawer. Earlier this week, his lawyers argued that those actions were lawful and that they imposed a burden on the House to seek the aid of the courts in enforcing House subpoenas.*

*Such an argument puts the cart before the horse. Under the Constitution, the House has "the sole power of impeachment." The House does not need the approval of the judiciary to obtain evidence of impeachable offenses from executive branch officials.*

We know that obstruction of Congress is a crime. Just ask former New York Yankees pitching great Roger Clemens, who was tried for it and acquitted. We also know that obstruction of Congress -- by ordering subordinates not to comply with House impeachment subpoenas -- is an impeachable offense. *We know that because the House Judiciary Committee voted to charge President Nixon with obstruction of Congress when he refused to comply with subpoenas. And the full House voted for an article of impeachment against President Clinton when he refused to surrender subpoenaed evidence.*

Where does all this leave us at the outset of Trump's Senate trial?

It leaves us with valid, lawful, constitutional arguments for Trump's impeachment that he ought to take seriously. That is, unless he knows he will be acquitted because Republican senators have told him so. Whoever may have whispered that into his ear is unworthy of sitting as a juror and has violated the oath of "impartial justice" and fidelity to the Constitution and the law.

*What is required for removal of the president? A demonstration of presidential commission of high crimes and misdemeanors, of which in Trump's case the evidence is ample and uncontradicted.*

Andrew P. Napolitano, a former judge of the Superior Court of New Jersey, is the senior judicial analyst at Fox News Channel. *Source*



Synchonicist said:


> He's headed to and for a landslide win in November, watch !


Ok buddy, maybe you have a crystal ball, I certainly don’t. 

But on a serious note, it’s too early to predict the outcome. The 2020 election hinges on several factors. Here are some of the issues I consider crucial: Health care and climate change have emerged as the top issues for voters, both of these issues benefits Democrats, in the midterm 2018 elections Democrat’s main issue was healthcare and that won them 40 seats in the House. 

What if the economy slows down or worse goes into recession? 

What if there’s a high voter turnout among Democrats? 

Many critical swing states; Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin had lost manufacturing jobs in 2019, would they recover this year before the election?

And of course, there are a host of other issues that will determine the outcome of 2020 election.


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## RabzonKhan

Bombshell news: Excellent news at the right time By the New York Times. The news story has shaken up Trump’s impeachment hearing, Trump and his cronies in the Senate are in a panic mode. No doubt New York Times is one of the best American newspaper. 


*Here We Have It. The Trump Impeachment Smoking Gun.*

*A report about a book by John Bolton makes the president’s Republican defenders look like liars and fools. Maybe they’ll be fine with that.*

By Jonathan Bernstein
January 27, 2020

President Donald Trump’s team opened its impeachment-trial defense in the Senate on Saturday morning. I was wrong about how the president’s lawyers would go about the job. I had suspected that they would use a tantrum to rally Republicans to their side, but it turned out that Republican Senators had their tantrum late Friday night when they chose to be outraged that the lead House impeachment manager, Representative Adam Schiff of California, referred to a (somewhat thinly sourced) news report that someone at the White House had threatened that Trump would have the “head on a pike” of any Republican who opposed him.

Trump’s lawyers began with a misstep, rehashing their flimsy claim that there’s some kind of significance to the fact that Schiff paraphrased, instead of directly quoting, the words Trump used in the July 25 phone call in which he pressed Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to participate in a smear of a leading Democratic rival, former Vice President Joe Biden.

But they didn’t rely on emotion in their presentation. Instead, they did what defense attorneys do. They floated alternative interpretations of the evidence the House managers, serving as prosecutors in the Senate trial, had presented in support of the articles of impeachment accusing Trump of abusing his power by trying to coerce that country’s interference on his behalf in his 2020 re-election effort. They pointed out that some of the witnesses who testified on the House side were not entirely reliable on some questions. And they added a bunch of mostly irrelevant points, such as the administration’s overall support for Ukraine (which in fact only makes Trump’s decisions to pause congressionally approved military aid and refuse to schedule an Oval Office meeting with Zelenskiy harder to understand as anything but elements of a pressure campaign) and the fact that previous presidents had also put foreign aid on hold (which no one denies, but the question is why it happened this time).

I’m not sure I’d call the first few hours of their presentation strong, but then again if they are constrained by their client to pretend that the Zelenskiy call was “perfect,” they have a difficult hand to play. It could have been worse.

*And then, Sunday night, it fell apart. The New York Times reported that former National Security Adviser John Bolton has written in his upcoming book that Trump made explicit the quid pro quo that his lawyers are denying: that Trump told him directly that he wanted to keep the military aid frozen until the Ukrainian government agreed to help with investigations of Democrats. Not only that, but apparently the White House has had Bolton’s manuscript all month. Trump’s team knew this was coming*.

While I certainly don’t expect the president’s support in Congress to collapse, it’s impossible not to see close parallels to the “smoking gun” tape that ended Richard Nixon’s presidency in 1974. That tape, proving that Nixon ordered his staff to have the Central Intelligence Agency block the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s inquiry into the Watergate scandal and released to Congress and the public after the House Judiciary Committee had passed articles of impeachment, was so devastating for Nixon not so much because it was proof of his crimes; plenty of proof of plenty of crimes had long since been placed in the record. Instead, it became the moment when conservative Republicans realized that Nixon had deliberately set them up with false arguments even though Nixon knew that the evidence, if released, would undermine those arguments and make them look like liars and fools. 

That is exactly what appears to have happened with the Bolton book. Trump knew that Bolton’s testimony and supporting notes, if they ever surfaced, would undermine the claims of his supporters. In some ways, it’s not quite as strong as Nixon’s smoking gun, since there’s no tape (as far as we know!) furnishing absolute proof of what Trump said to Bolton. But in some ways, it’s worse. Nixon knew what was on the tapes, but until the Supreme Court ruled against him he might at least have hoped that he could keep them secret. Apparently in the Trump case, at least some people in the White House have known for weeks that Bolton was going to release this book, and yet they still encouraged their allies to say things that were about to be shown to be false.

So far, it appears that Republican politicians would rather look like liars and fools — following ever-less-plausible White House lines, perhaps hoping that no one notices — than dare to oppose Trump and his still-loyal allies in the Republican-aligned media. Maybe they’ll all stay on message, even after this episode. Some of them, I’m sure, are either such blind partisans or so far inside the conservative information feedback loop that they may not even notice. But I have to believe that, whatever they do about it, a lot of Republican politicians are feeling more uncomfortable than ever. *Source*


----------



## RabzonKhan

The Democratic party’s first 2020 presidential primary is just three days away. On Monday the Iowa caucuses will be held. Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden are neck to neck, followed by Buttigieg, Warren and Klobuchar.



*Dem Caucuses Could Be a Five-Way Contest*
Wednesday, Jan. 29, 2020

*Nearly half remain open to switching support on caucus night*

_West Long Branch, NJ_ – Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Pete Buttigieg, and Elizabeth Warren continue to jostle for the top spot in the fifth and final *Monmouth University Poll* of likely Iowa Democratic caucusgoers. Support for Amy Klobuchar registers in double digits and could have an impact on the leaderboard if she reaches the viability threshold in a number of precincts. About half of likely caucusgoers say they are still open to changing their minds when they show up to caucus on Monday.

Four candidates remain in the top tier of likely caucusgoers’ first preference – Biden (23%), Sanders (21%), Buttigieg (16%), and Warren (15%). Klobuchar registers 10% support, while Tom Steyer earns 4% and Andrew Yang has 3%. Four other candidates earn 1% or less._ [Note: Mike Bloomberg was not included in the poll because he is not participating in the Iowa caucus process.]_

Changes from Monmouth’s poll earlier this month are not statistically significant. Two weeks ago, Biden had 24%, Sanders 18%, Buttigieg 17%, Warren 15%, and Klobuchar 8%. In terms of trajectory over Monmouth polls conducted since last summer, support for Biden has bounced around between 19% and 26%, Sanders has grown steadily from a low of 8% in August, Buttigieg jumped from 8% to 22% between August and November but has fallen back from that high point, Warren has slipped slightly from 20% in the summer, and Klobuchar has inched up from 3% in August. *Read more*



========================

Told ya, he’s panicked. Little does this man realizes what an inept loser he is, I mean, how come he keeps giving important jobs to people he then starts calling losers.

This is the man who often claimed that he hires only the best people. 

Also note, how can a book be “untrue” and “classified”?

And world War six. 




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1222496715422433281


----------



## RabzonKhan

*Michael Bloomberg goes full Trump troll in his new golf ad*

*Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large Fri January 31, 2020*

(CNN)Michael Bloomberg gets under Donald Trump's skin. He knows it -- and loves it.

Witness this latest ad from the billionaire in support of his 2020 Democratic presidential campaign:





Whooaaaaaaaaaa boy.


*Ostensibly the ad is designed to address the criticism of the fact that Bloomberg, as mayor of New York City, hired Trump to build a golf course. "That's true," Bloomberg says in the commercial. "But he was the only bidder and running a golf course is the only job I would hire him for."*

*But that's not the real goal of the ad. The real goal is to troll Trump over his appearance -- as there are several still photographs of Trump on the golf course shown on screen, all of which make the President look, well, large.*

*Trump, as Bloomberg well knows, is decidedly vain and appearance focused. There is nothing that will bother Trump more than seeing an ad like this that is clearly intended to make Trump look out of shape and sort of bumbling. (One image shows Trump climbing up a hill at a golf course on all fours.)*

Think that's not what Bloomberg is up to? Consider this: When asked why Bloomberg had made the decision to drop $10+ million on a single 60-second ad during the Super Bowl, a campaign spokesman told The New York Times: "The biggest point is getting under Trump's skin." Imagine dropping $10 million to annoy the President?!

There's evidence that trolling Trump is working for Bloomberg. Despite the fact that the former New York City mayor has yet to break into solid double digits in any national polling (he's getting close), Trump has repeatedly attacked Bloomberg via Twitter.

"Mini Mike Bloomberg doesn't get on the Democrat Debate Stage because he doesn't want to - he is a terrible debater and speaker," Trump tweeted of Bloomberg earlier this month. "If he did, he would go down in the polls even more (if that is possible!)." Days later, Trump referred to Bloomberg as the "biggest clown of them all."

*Why does Bloomberg bother Trump so much? Because Trump primarily judges worth by wealth. And Bloomberg, whose estimated net worth is $60.5 billion, is much, much richer than Trump. He, like Trump, is also a New Yorker. And spent more than a decade as mayor of the city. The two men have known one another for decades. Looking at Bloomberg's resume, it's almost as if he was made in a lab to create maximum irritation to Trump.*

There's also a defensible -- if far from certain -- strategy in Bloomberg as chief Trump troll. And it goes like this: No race against Trump will ever be decided on policy grounds. Trump will turn everything into a knife fight, doing and saying whatever it takes to win. *In order to have a chance in that sort of Thunderdome, you have to be willing to play just as rough. And to demonstrate that you can get to Trump, make him mad, put him off his stride.
Bloomberg, in this ad and in his campaign more generally, is putting himself forth as the person best equipped to do just that: Troll Trump into defeat. Source*


============================

My favorite is this one.

*Climbing Mount Everest great again!*


----------



## RabzonKhan

*White House candidates, and a nation, brace for Iowa vote

AFP 3 Feb 2020
*
*Months into the Democratic nomination marathon, after seven debates, countless rallies, bitter candidate clashes and an impeachment effort to remove the US president, Iowa on Monday holds the first-in-the-nation vote to see who challenges Donald Trump in November.*

More than two dozen White House hopefuls began the journey, some as early as a year ago. Eleven now remain, exactly nine months from Election Day.

Despite the historically diverse field consisting of men and women of color and young candidates with little Washington exposure, the two frontrunners are septuagenarian white men -- Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden -- with more than 80 years of political experience between them.

*In a typical election year, Iowa absorbs the country's full political attention. But this presidential cycle has been anything but normal.*

*Looming over the process is Trump's impeachment saga, which is coming to a climax on Wednesday with acquittal almost certain in the Republican-led Senate.*

Three senators -- progressives Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, and moderate Amy Klobuchar -- have faced the unprecedented scenario of spending much of the past two weeks tethered to Washington for the impeachment trial, essentially leaving them to campaign in Iowa with one hand tied behind their back.

*Add January's military scare with Iran, a stubborn trade war with China, a deadly outbreak of novel coronavirus that has set parts of the world on edge -- and US Democratic hopefuls find themselves competing for headlines.*

- Sanders ahead -

Trump is all but certain to be confirmed as the Republican nominee at the party's national convention August 24-27 in Charlotte, North Carolina.

*Iowa's all-important vote will likely whittle the Democratic field further as it provides the first verifiable results in a contest deciding the party's future direction, and its 2020 flagbearer.*

*The Democratic primaries culminate July 13-16 when delegates to the party's national nominating convention in Milwaukee, Wisconsin will decide who runs against Trump on November 3.*

*Sanders, running as a democratic socialist, is leading in Iowa. An Emerson College poll of Democratic voters released on the eve of the caucuses shows him with 28 percent support, seven points clear of centrist Biden, the former vice president who is the national frontrunner.*

*South Bend, Indiana ex-mayor Pete Buttigieg and Warren are about four points behind Biden in poll averages.*

*Second-tier hopefuls Klobuchar and tech entrepreneur Andrew Yang look to outpace expectations and seize momentum heading into the next contest, in New Hampshire February 11.*

"This is the most consequential election, certainly in the modern history of this country ... and it all begins tomorrow night," Sanders told supporters Sunday in Iowa City.

Similar scenes played out across the state this weekend as candidates made their final frantic push to convince undecided voters that they are best positioned to send the controversial incumbent packing.

"I promise you: if you stand with me, we will end Trump's reign of hatred and division," Biden said as he rallied 1,100 supporters at a Des Moines middle school.

Trump has not stood idly by. The pugnacious president has repeatedly attacked Democrats, and did so Sunday, branding Biden "Sleepy Joe" -- his campaign events often lack the pizzazz of rivals -- and hurling an epithet at Sanders.

"I think he's a communist," Trump told Fox News, previewing a likely line of attack were Sanders to win the nomination.

- Surprises in store? -

*Iowa's stage is set. At 7:00 pm (0100 GMT Tuesday), nearly 1,700 schools, libraries, churches and other venues welcome the state's registered Democrats to participate in a quirky, sometimes chaotic American ritual.*

*Unlike secret ballot voting, caucus-goers publicly declare their presidential choice by standing together with other supporters of a candidate.*

*Candidates who reach 15 percent support earn delegates for the nomination race. If a candidate does not meet this threshold after the first alignment of caucus-goers, their supporters can shift to other candidates, a process that potentially can reorder the rankings.*

Turnout is critical, and candidates and their representatives will seek to persuade voters on issues including health care, taxes and ending Washington corruption.






They are also pushing their own electability, as Buttigieg did repeatedly Sunday on the stump and during TV talk shows.

"Clearly we need a strong finish," Buttigieg said on CNN Monday, adding that candidates hoping to beat Trump in the fall must show they can turn out voters. "The process of proving that begins right here in Iowa," he added.

A former US Navy reservist who became a mayor at 29, Buttigieg portrays his youth and new ideas as reasons voters should prefer him over the white-haired Biden, 77, and Sanders, 78.

*The caucuses could yield major surprises, as one in two Iowa voters claim still to be undecided. Source*


----------



## RabzonKhan

Trump’s state of union address, as usual, was full of lies and exaggerations.

And there was some drama, Trump ignored to shake House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s hand and in retaliation shortly after Trump concluded his address in the House chamber, Pelosi tore up the copy of his speech.




*Fact-checking Donald Trump's 2020 State of the Union address*

By PolitiFact StaffFebruary 4, 2020

Trump’s speech boasted about the improved economy and included some false lines that he has repeated in campaign rallies. We fact-checked many of them for accuracy or additional context.

*Health Care:*

*"I've also made an ironclad pledge to American families: We will also protect patients with pre-existing conditions."*

This repeated line is Pants on Fire. His administration is doing the opposite in court.

The protections for patients with pre-existing conditions come from the Affordable Care Act, which passed under then-President Barack Obama. The law says that health plans cannot charge people more for insurance because of their medical history, and is one of the ACA’s most popular provisions.

Trump has repeatedly sought and supported congressional efforts to repeal the ACA, though those efforts memorably fell flat in 2017. More recently, his administration has declined to defend the law in a pending court case, known as Texas vs. Azar. In that case, a group of Republican states’ attorneys generals is arguing that the entire law should be struck down — including the pre-existing condition protection. The case is expected to end up before the Supreme Court, though not before the 2020 election.

The administration’s stance — endorsing the lawsuit and declining to defend the law — is almost unprecedented, legal experts say. 

Neither the president nor congressional Republicans has unveiled a replacement plan for the ACA. In the event the Supreme Court ultimately strikes down the health law, health plans would once again be allowed to charge people more if they have had any medical issues.

*Immigration:

"We have now completed over 100 miles and have over 500 miles fully completed in a very short period of time. Early next year, we will have substantially more than 500 miles completed."*

This needs clarification. 

The 100-mile reference is mainly about the replacement of older, dilapidated barriers with new fencing. It doesn’t mean that the nearly 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border now has 100 more miles of barriers than it did before Trump became president. 

The southwest border had 654 miles of primary barriers before Trump was elected. Three years into Trump’s term, that has increased by 1 mile, to 655 miles.

*According to U.S. Customs and Border Protection, as of Jan. 24:

1 mile of barriers has been constructed where no barriers previously existed;

99 miles of barriers have been constructed to replace outdated or dilapidated designs that existed before Trump took office; and

10 miles of secondary barriers have been constructed to replace dilapidated fencing.*

Customs and Border Protection said it’s identified about $11 billion from the Department of Homeland Security, Defense Department, and the Treasury Forfeiture Fund to build 576 miles worth of barriers (which includes the 110 miles already built). About half of the barriers would get new barriers to replace existing structures, and the rest would have barriers for the first time, according to the immigration agency.

*Economy:

"After decades of flat and falling incomes, wages are rising fast — and, wonderfully, they are rising fastest for low-income workers, who have seen a 16% pay increase since my election. This is a blue collar boom."*

This is Half True. Looking at the change in weekly earnings since 2016, the bottom 10% saw a 14.6% rise, compared with 13.5% for the top earners. But looking at the change from year to year, in 2017 and 2019, earnings for the top 10% grew faster than for the lowest wage earners. Trump’s statement was true for one out of his three years in office.

But there are two key problems with using weekly earnings to compare the lowest to the highest groups. The government’s survey excludes the self-employed, and at the high end, that means lawyers, engineers, and other well-paid positions. Their income doesn’t show up. In addition, the survey doesn’t doesn’t count earnings over $150,000. Someone making $250,000 would be entered as earning $149,999. That makes the high-end number in the data artificially low.

*Says he enacted "historic and record-setting tax cuts." *

False. In inflation-adjusted dollars, the recent tax bill is the fourth-largest since 1940. And as a percentage of GDP, it ranks seventh. *Read more*


----------



## RabzonKhan

Election 2020 marathon has started. On the Democrat’s side there were some unexpected results, Joe Biden almost collapsed in the Iowa caucus (finished 4th) and in the New Hampshire primary (5th), on the other hand, surprisingly Pete Buttigieg won the Iowa caucus and came second in New Hampshire primary. Bernie Sanders came second in Iowa and as expected won New Hampshire with a narrow margin, he had won New Hampshire with a lead of almost 20% over Hillary Clinton in 2016.

After Iowa and New Hampshire debacle, Joe Biden is now heavily depending on a win in South Carolina’s Feb.29 primary and its majority black electorate. I think if he loses South Carolina I doubt he will be able to carry on, but you never know it’s still too early.

On the Republican side, Trump easily won Iowa caucus and New Hampshire primary.

Note: Mike Bloomberg was not on the ballot in both states.








*New Hampshire Primary*
Last Updated: February 12, 3:07:00PM ET
*Democratic Primary*
*Candidate* *Delegates* *Vote Percentage* *Votes*




*Bernie Sanders 9. 26%. 75,264*




*Pete Buttigieg 9. 24%. 71,294*




*Amy Klobuchar 6. 20%. 57,833*




*Elizabeth Warren 0. 9%. 27,024*




*Joe Biden 0. 8%. 24,496*


----------



## RabzonKhan

The lawless President strikes again. Thanks to Republicans for encouraging his bad behavior. He won't stop corruption runs in his blood.

*Roger Stone backlash: Democrats demand Barr's resignation, call for investigation, hearings*

The fallout comes after the Justice Department suddenly reversed its recommendation for a 7- to 9-year sentence for the Trump confidant.

By Rebecca Shabad

WASHINGTON — Congressional Democrats on Wednesday called for an emergency hearing and investigation into the Justice Department's decision to reduce its recommended sentence for longtime Donald Trump confidant Roger Stone.

Top Democrats are pushing for the GOP-led Senate Judiciary Committee to hold a hearing to review the decision that led to the sudden resignation of all of the four prosecutors Tuesday from the Stone criminal case. Stone was found guilty in November of all seven counts against him, including making false statements, witness tampering and obstructing a congressional probe.

Attorney General William Barr is expected to testify about the Stone case and other issues before the House Judiciary Committee on March 31, the panel's chairman, Rep. Jerry Nadler, D-N.Y., announced Wednesday.

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said in the Senate: "Something egregious like this demands that the inspector general investigate and demands that the chairman of the Judiciary Committee hold a hearing now."

Schumer sent a letter to the Justice Department's inspector general, Michael Horowitz, on Tuesday, writing that the development amounts to "improper political interference in a criminal prosecution."

"I therefore request that you immediately investigate this matter to determine how and why the Stone sentencing recommendations were countermanded, which Justice Department officials made this decision, and which White House officials were involved," Schumer said.

Late Tuesday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., reacted to the news, tweeting, "By tweet @realDonaldTrump engaged in political interference in the sentencing of Roger Stone. It is outrageous that DOJ has deeply damaged the rule of law by withdrawing its recommendation."

Earlier in the day, Sen. Kamala Harris, D-Calif., a former state attorney general and a former federal prosecutor, sent a letter asking Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., to immediately schedule a hearing for Barr to testify "so that the committee and the American people can understand the Justice Department's decision to overrule its career prosecutors in this case."

Graham, however, gave no indications Wednesday that he planned to hold a hearing. He told reporters that he was briefed on the sentencing guidelines and that they are 3½ to 4½ years, unless there's "a threat against a witness."

Graham said that Trump's tweets were unrelated to the proposed change and that he has "real concerns about overzealous prosecution more than anything else." Graham also said that Trump shouldn't be commenting on cases in the system and that if he had thought Trump had done something that changed the outcome inappropriately, "I'd be the first to say."

*The Justice Department, which announced Tuesday that it was revising the original recommended sentence of seven to nine years in prison, is asking Judge Amy Berman Jackson of U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia to reduce the sentence after Trump himself called the proposal "a miscarriage of justice." In response, all four federal prosecutors who made the original sentencing recommendation withdrew from the case Tuesday.*

Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., another former federal prosecutor, said Wednesday that "Attorney General William Barr should be ashamed and embarrassed and resign as a result of this action directly interfering in the independent prosecution of Roger Stone, simply the latest examples of political interference by the president to alter the independent decisions of the Department of Justice."

In the House, Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, D-Calif., told reporters Wednesday that this is "an egregious violation of the rule of law." Rep. Jamie Raskin, D-Md., a constitutional law expert, said the four prosecutors are "sending a message to America that the rule of law is under attack."

As for Republican reaction, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said Tuesday that he had nothing to say on the matter when pressed by reporters at a weekly news conference. *Source*


----------



## RabzonKhan

Trump calls Mike Bloomberg; Mini Mike, Bloomberg calls Trump; Carnival Barking Clown. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1227951551068721154


----------



## RabzonKhan

*Paging Michael Bloomberg*

*Democrats need to nominate the right person to prevent Trump from winning a second term.*
*


*
By Thomas L. Friedman *Opinion Columnist NYT*

*My fellow Americans, we face a national emergency. Never before have we had a president so utterly lacking in personal integrity, so able to lie and abuse his powers with such impunity and so blindly backed by an amoral party, an unscrupulous attorney general and a media-fund-raising juggernaut. It is an engine of raw power that will cram anything the president says or does right down your throat.*

James Carville had it exactly right when he noted on “Morning Joe” the other day that the only thing standing in the way of lasting damage by this machine to all that makes America unique and great is the Democrats’ nominating the right person to defeat Donald Trump.

*We have to get this right. This is no ordinary time, no ordinary Republican Party, no ordinary incumbent, and it will require an extraordinary Democratic machine to triumph.*

Because, without doubt, Russia and China also will be “voting” Trump 2020 — for three reasons: (1) Trump keeps America in turmoil and unable to focus on building the infrastructure we need to dominate the 21st century the way we did the 20th. (2) Both Beijing and Moscow know that Trump is so disliked by America’s key allies that he can never galvanize a global coalition against China or Russia. And (3) both Russia and China know that Trump is utterly transactional and will never challenge them on human rights abuses. Trump is their chump, and they will not let him go easily.

So who is the right Democratic candidate? Well, for starters I will tell you who it is not. It is not Bernie Sanders. On which planet in the Milky Way galaxy is an avowed “socialist” — who wants to take away the private health care coverage of some 150 million Americans and replace it with a gigantic, untested Medicare-for-All program, which he’d also extend to illegal immigrants — going to defeat the Trump machine this year? It will cast Sanders as Che Guevara — and it won’t even be that hard.

Yes, the failures of American capitalism to deliver inclusive growth, which have propelled the Sanders campaign and animated his followers, require urgent attention by our next president. But Sanders, in key cases, has the wrong solutions to the right problems. He’s the wrong candidate to take down Trump.

Please, Democrats, don’t tell me you need Sanders’s big, ill-thought-through, revolutionary grand schemes to get inspired and mobilized for this election. You want a revolution? I’ll give you a revolution: four more years of Donald Trump, unencumbered by the need to get re-elected. _That will be a revolution!_ And it will do permanent damage to the institutions and norms that have sustained this country since its founding, not to mention our environment, which Trump has been selling off to oil, gas and mining companies at an alarming pace.

So, who is the right candidate and what is the right strategy?

*On strategy, we know the formula that works, because it already has: Appeal to independents, moderate Republicans and suburban women. These are the constituencies that did not like Hillary Clinton and were ready to give Trump a chance in 2016 — but abandoned him in 2018 and delivered the House of Representatives to the Democrats, and then also two governorships in red states.*

*If Democrats can choose a candidate who can hold the core Democratic base and also appeal to these same independents, moderate Republicans and suburban women in the key swing states, they can absolutely defeat Trump.*

How do you do that as a candidate?

For starters, by stressing national unity, personal integrity and a willingness to pursue bipartisanship whenever the other side is ready. A lot of Americans are worried sick that Trump is tearing the country in half.

As Larry Diamond, editor of The Journal of Democracy, pointed out to me, several studies he’s been publishing show that the best way to defeat illiberal populism is not by trying to out-polarize the polarizer in chief but rather through broad, inclusive electoral strategies that pragmatically address the economic and social concerns of voters, including those who had previously voted for the populist.

That was the approach that enabled the secular opposition to defeat the party of Turkey’s autocratic president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in municipal elections last year in Istanbul and other cities. A similar depolarizing approach powered the victory of Greece’s liberal-centrist New Democracy party over the ruling left-wing populist Syriza in national elections last year.

*You also do it by repeating every hour every day — with evidence — that Trump is out to destroy Obamacare through the courts, which means eliminating its coverage for pre-existing conditions, and only the Democrats will save it and improve it.*

You do it by not only talking about how to redivide the pie — which we need to do — but by also talking about how to grow the pie, how to create more taxpayers and how to inspire more innovators. Ours is a capitalist country. *Americans admire successful entrepreneurs. Let’s praise job creators and risk-takers — as long as they and their companies pay their taxes. You want more and better jobs, you need more Steve Jobs.*

*You do it by celebrating the growing economy that Barack Obama reignited and Trump continued, while making clear that it still needs work. Too much of the Trump tax cuts have gone to companies and the most wealthy, with virtually nothing invested in infrastructure — roads, ports, schools, bandwidth, scientific research — or affordable housing, which we must have for inclusive prosperity.*

You do it by hitting Trump hard on the environment, but not focusing just on “climate change,” which is an abstraction for most people. Trump is unfit to serve four more years because of how he has removed so many protections for the water and air America’s kids drink and breathe every day.

And you do it by supporting a balanced approach to immigration reform — a high wall, with a big gate.

I was glad to see candidates with this kind of message, like Amy Klobuchar and Pete Buttigieg, trending better in Iowa and New Hampshire. It showed that lots of Democrats are searching in this direction.

But there is one candidate on the Democratic side who not only has a track record of supporting all those issues but also has the resources to build a machine big enough to take on the Trump machine.

*This candidate also has the toughness to take on Trump, because while Trump was pretending to be a C.E.O. on the show “The Apprentice,” this candidate was actually building one of the most admired global companies as a real C.E.O.*

This candidate is not cuddly, he is not always politically correct and he will not always tell you what you want to hear — or try to outbid you on how many free services he’ll give away. He’s made mistakes, especially around stop-and-frisk policing in New York City, which disproportionately targeted black and brown men and for which he recently apologized.

His mistakes, though, have to be weighed against a record of courageously speaking out and devoting enormous personal resources to virtually every progressive cause — gun control, abortion rights, climate change, Planned Parenthood, education reform for predominantly minority schools, affordable housing, income inequality and tax reform. And he has vowed as president to focus on building black wealth, not just ending poverty.

*And this candidate knows how to get stuff done — he can fight this fire at the scale of the fire. His team has for years used social networks to promote progressive issues to centrist and conservative audiences. He won’t cede the internet/Facebook/Twitter battlefield to Trump’s team, who are killers in that space.*

*And this candidate is now rising steadily in the polls. This candidate is Michael Bloomberg. This candidate has Trump very worried.*

Yes, Sanders is also polling well against Trump, but the Trump machine has not begun to focus on him yet — it hasn’t begun bombing Facebook with ads about how Sanders honeymooned in the Soviet Union.

Sitting here today, Bloomberg — paired with a progressive vice-presidential candidate who can appeal to Sanders’s voters — has the best chance to carry the day.

*In an age when political extremists go all the way, and moderates tend to just go away, Bloomberg has the right stuff — a moderate progressive with a heart of gold but the toughness of a rattlesnake — for what is going to be an incredibly big, brutal task: making Donald Trump a one-term president*. *Source


*


----------



## Dalit

LOL Trump has the second presidency in his pocket. There is no Democratic candidate that can challange him.


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

Dalit said:


> LOL Trump has the second presidency in his pocket. There is no Democratic candidate that can challange him.


Bernie can challenge


----------



## Dalit

Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Bernie can challenge



Bernie won't even make it as a Democratic candidate.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

*Bill de Blasio endorses Bernie Sanders for president*

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/14/politics/bill-de-blasio-endorsement-bernie-sanders/index.html


----------



## RabzonKhan

Excellent resolution, cannot trust Trump, he is too crazy. It's good to see Congress is taking the front seat, for too long it has allowed Presidents to miss use their power to unnecessarily get US involve in wars, especially in the Middle East.


*Senate votes to limit Trump’s military authority against Iran*
“War is the most solemn responsibility we have, and it cannot be outsourced to anyone,” Tim Kaine says.

By MARIANNE LEVINE and ANDREW DESIDERIO

The Senate on Thursday passed a resolution limiting President Donald Trump’s authority to attack Iran without congressional approval, delivering the president another bipartisan foreign-policy rebuke and flexing its constitutional power over military actions.

The 55-45 vote came nearly six weeks after Trump ordered an airstrike that killed Qassem Soleimani, a top Iranian general who led the Iran Revolutionary Guard Corps’ elite Quds force. The strike drew immediate condemnation from Democrats and some Republicans, and it prompted Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.) to introduce a War Powers resolution aimed at re-asserting Congress’ constitutional authority to declare war.

“War is the most solemn responsibility we have, and it cannot be outsourced to anyone,” Kaine said ahead of the final vote. “We have a special obligation to make sure we deliberate — and deliberate carefully — before we send troops into harm’s way.”

In the years following the 2001 and 2002 authorizations for the use of military force against al Qaeda and Iraq, Congress has largely abdicated its war-making powers to the executive branch. If Kaine’s bill clears through the House as expected, it will be the second time a War Powers resolution has reached Trump’s desk — after last year’s House and Senate passage of a similar bill to cut off U.S. support for the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen’s civil war. Trump vetoed that measure. *Read more*



Dalit said:


> LOL Trump has the second presidency in his pocket. There is no Democratic candidate that can challange him.


It’s way early and too close to call. Many things can happen that can affect and perhaps determine the outcome before November.



Austin Powers said:


> *Bill de Blasio endorses Bernie Sanders for president*
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/14/politics/bill-de-blasio-endorsement-bernie-sanders/index.html


I'm not surprised, Blasio just like Bernie is a progressive. Disaster!


----------



## RabzonKhan

Update on Coronavirus. More than 72,000 people just in China have been affected and more than 1800 people have died.

According to the World Health Organization (depending on Chinese data) about 80% of patients have mild symptoms and will recover, while 14% suffer from serve complications, 5% are in critical condition and 2% die from the disease.

The world is rightfully worried.

But nothing to worry, our “stable genius” Pres Trump has found the cure.

According to our "stable genius" President, just wait till April and once the weather gets warm Coronavirus will just disappear. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1228683026449731584


----------



## RabzonKhan

Mike Bloomberg has qualified for Democratic debate in Las Vegas, Nevada. The debate is tomorrow, it will be fun to watch Mike (Billionaire) vs Bernie (Socialist).







*Mike’s Story
Mike Bloomberg started as a middle class kid who worked his way through college. After getting laid off at age 39, he started a company from scratch and built it into a business that today employs 20,000 people.* He gives virtually all of the company’s profits to charity, to support causes he is passionate about, including gun safety, climate change, education, women’s rights, and health care. He served three terms as Mayor of New York and created nearly a half-million jobs, expanded health insurance to 700,000 people, reduced the city’s carbon footprint, and cut the incarceration rate by nearly 40%. Now he’s running to unite America, defeat Donald Trump, and start getting big things done.

One of Mike Bloomberg’s earliest memories took place around his family’s dining room table in Medford, Massachusetts. His father – a bookkeeper at a local dairy who never earned more than $6,000 a year in his life – sat down and wrote out a $25 or $50 check to the NAACP. When Mike asked him why, his father responded: “Because discrimination against anyone is a threat to everyone.” With that simple act and that simple explanation, Mike’s father taught him one of his most important lessons: We’re all in this together – and if you have an opportunity to help, you have an obligation to act.

The sense of duty and common purpose that he first learned from his father has guided Mike Bloomberg throughout his life and career as an entrepreneur, philanthropist, and job creator who served as mayor of New York City for 12 years.

*It’s what led him to become one of America’s most fearless and effective voices on urgent issues including climate change, gun violence, public health, and education. It’s why he has given $10 billion to support vital causes in the U.S. and around the world, and why he has pledged to give away nearly all of his money in his lifetime. And it’s what compels him today to run for president of the United States.*

Mike understands the unprecedented risks we face from President Trump and what it will take to get our country back on track. Donald Trump is a failed businessman whose companies went bankrupt multiple times and who built a presidential campaign around empty promises, and his reckless actions in office have harmed Americans and weakened our country. Mike Bloomberg built one of the world’s most successful companies from scratch and guided America’s largest city to new heights after the attacks of 9/11 and through the shocks of the global economic crisis.

Mike is a proven leader with an unmatched track record in business and government. He can unite the Democratic Party, bridge partisan differences, and get Washington back to solving problems – and getting the big things done for Americans.

*A Self-Made Job Creator*
Mike Bloomberg grew up in a middle-class family outside of Boston. He wasn’t born into wealth or social connections. His drive to succeed, love of work, and passion for service began at a young age. When he was 12 years old he became one of the youngest Eagle Scouts in history. To help pay his way through Johns Hopkins University, he worked in a parking lot and took out government loans.

His father died when he was in college and his mother worked as a secretary. After working his way through college and Harvard Business School, Mike then took an entry-level job with a financial services firm and worked his way up to partner, eventually overseeing its technology and information systems.

And then, one day in 1981, he was laid off. It turned out to be a moment that would define the rest of his life.

The next day, Mike decided to start his own company, beginning in a one-room office with a groundbreaking idea far ahead of its time: a desktop computer that connected investors to a vast network of information and data. If Mike’s new business could distribute that information widely, it would democratize financial information, empowering investors and smaller firms and result in dramatically improved returns for pensioners and retirees.

People told him it was a waste of time and that his idea would never work. But Mike believed in the idea and worked long days and nights. Today, Bloomberg LP employs some 20,000 talented and creative people who share Mike’s passion for innovation and customer service.

*Lifting New York City*
In 2001, just weeks after the terrorist attacks of 9/11, Mike Bloomberg was elected mayor of New York City in his first run for public office.


*Mike and his team rallied New Yorkers and led the city through a new era of progress and prosperity – writing one of the great comeback stories in American history.
*

*He turned around a broken school system.*
*He drove down crime to record lows, took on the scourge of illegal guns, and reduced incarceration.*
*He spurred economic growth that led to the creation of 400,000 new jobs.*
*He introduced new anti-poverty programs that became national models.*
*He created new parks, invested in arts and cultural organizations, and pioneered ambitious public health initiatives, including a ban on smoking in all indoor workplaces.*

*He launched policies that raised air quality to the highest levels in fifty years and increased average life expectancy for New Yorkers by three years.*
*He injected new opportunity into neighborhoods that had been left behind.*
*He made major investments in new mass transit and other critical infrastructure.*
*He led the rebuilding of the World Trade Center site, the creation of the 9/11 Memorial and Museum, and the revitalization of Lower Manhattan – which today has more residents, businesses, and visitors than ever before.*
*And when the global economic crisis hit New York City in 2007, the investments Mike and his team had made helped hold the city together. From the end of the national recession through 2013, New York City gained back 327% of the jobs lost, while the country as a whole gained back only 87%.*

By the end of his mayoralty, New York City was safer, stronger and healthier than ever.

*Influence and Impact*
Since leaving City Hall, Mike has continued to build on the work he began as mayor, and he has shared his results-oriented approach to management with other mayors around the country. Through Bloomberg Philanthropies, Mike has worked to increase the number of low- and middle-income students who attend top colleges. As a demonstration of that commitment – and to encourage others to join him – Mike gave $1.8 billion to his alma mater Johns Hopkins to forever guarantee need-blind admissions for all students.

*He has also taken the fight to the NRA and helped pass commonsense gun laws that save lives in states around the country. And he has led the charge against climate change. His partnership with the Sierra Club has shut down more than half the nation’s coal-fired power plants and replaced many of them with clean energy, saving many lives and creating many new jobs.*

For Mike Bloomberg, the sense of responsibility to others – first instilled in him by his parents around the kitchen table – is stronger than ever.

*Every single day he wakes up and thinks about what he can do to create a healthier, safer, more just world – for his two daughters, Emma and Georgina, for his two grandchildren, Zelda and Jasper, and for all America.*


----------



## RabzonKhan

*News in cartoons




*


----------



## RabzonKhan

Breaking News
Long-time Trump buddy/advisor Roger Stone sentenced. 

*'Truth still matters': Judge sentences Roger Stone to 3 years in prison for obstructing Congress' Russia investigation*

Kristine PhillipsKevin JohnsonNicholas Wu
USA TODAY

WASHINGTON — Roger Stone, a longtime friend and ally of President Donald Trump, was sentenced Thursday to 40 months in prison, a punishment that is likely to fuel criticism from the president and speculation that he'll pardon the flamboyant GOP operative.

Though less than what prosecutors originally asked for, the sentence marks a stunning downfall for the longtime political consultant who has advised presidential campaigns stretching back to Richard Nixon. The 67-year-old was found guilty in November of repeatedly lying to the House Intelligence Committee and obstructing its investigation into Russia's meddling in the 2016 presidential race.

U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson said Stone "took it upon himself to lie, to impede, to obstruct before the investigation was complete, in an endeavor to influence the result."

She continued: "The truth still exists, the truth still matters. Roger Stone insisted that it doesn’t." Stone stood expressionless next to his three defense attorneys.

Jackson also sentenced Stone to two years of probation and ordered him to pay $20,000 in fines.

Stone, wearing a dark pinstripe suit and blue tie, smiled briefly as he exited the courtroom. He declined to respond to questions shouted by a gauntlet of reporters.

The sentence will not take effect until Jackson rules on a pending motion for a new trial. Stone's attorneys made the request last week after Trump accused one of the jurors of "significant bias."

Jackson's decision, announced before a packed courtroom, comes after a tumultuous 10 days for the Justice Department. Four career prosecutors withdrew from Stone's case last week after the Justice Department overruled their recommendation that he serve up seven to nine years in prison. One resigned.

The intervention came hours after Trump criticized the recommended sentence, raising concerns among prosecutors, former prosecutors and judges about the appearance of political interference in the Justice Department. More than 2,000 former Justice Department officials have called for Attorney General William Barr to resign.

Prior to announcing her sentence, Jackson rebuked Stone’s conduct, saying he was “proud to act with impunity outside the law.” She defended the "integrity" of the investigation, in an apparent nod to Trump's repeated attacks.

“There was nothing unfair about the investigation and the prosecution,” Jackson said, adding that Stone was not prosecuted because of his politics. “He was prosecuted for covering up for the president.”

In a thinly veiled reference to Trump, Jackson said Stone's sentence should not be decided or influenced by someone who's a friend of the defendant and whose "political career was aided by the defendant." *Read more*


----------



## RabzonKhan

The Russian KGB thug is back, he is backing Trump’s re-election and once again supporting Bernie Sanders in Democratic primaries (Russia supported Bernie in 2016 Democratic primary against Hillary), according to the Washington Post and New York Times.

Bernie forcefully condemned Russia’s interference in our election. In a statement Bernie said: “Unlike the current president, I stand firmly against their efforts, and any other foreign power that wants to interfere in our election,” 

“I don’t care, frankly, who Putin wants to be president,” “My message to Putin is clear: stay out of American elections, and as president I will make sure that you do. In 2016, Russia used internet propaganda to sow division in our country, and my understanding is that they are doing it again in 2020.” Bernie said in a statement.

On the other hand, Trump’s reaction was completely different (as expected), rather than condemning Russia he became angry with McGuire, his own appointed Director of National Intelligence, for telling/briefing House lawmaker, especially Democrats about Russia’s 2020 interference agenda. The lawless moron fired Mr. McGuire for doing his official duty and replace him with incompetent boot licking loyalist.








*Lawmakers Are Warned That Russia Is Meddling to Re-elect Trump Lawmakers Are Warned That Russia Is Meddling to Re-elect Trump*
A classified briefing to House members is said to have angered the president, who complained that Democrats would “weaponize” the disclosure.

WASHINGTON — Intelligence officials warned House lawmakers last week that Russia was interfering in the 2020 campaign to try to get President Trump re-elected, five people familiar with the matter said, a disclosure to Congress that angered Mr. Trump, who complained that Democrats would use it against him.

The day after the Feb. 13 briefing to lawmakers, the president berated Joseph Maguire, the outgoing acting director of national intelligence, for allowing it to take place, people familiar with the exchange said. Mr. Trump was particularly irritated that Representative Adam B. Schiff, Democrat of California and the leader of the impeachment proceedings, was at the briefing.

During the briefing to the House Intelligence Committee, Mr. Trump’s allies challenged the conclusions, arguing that he had been tough on Russia and that he had strengthened European security.

Some intelligence officials viewed the briefing as a tactical error, saying the conclusions could have been delivered in a less pointed manner or left out entirely to avoid angering Republicans. The intelligence official who delivered the briefing, Shelby Pierson, is an aide to Mr. Maguire and has a reputation for speaking bluntly.

Though intelligence officials have previously told lawmakers that Russia’s interference campaign was continuing, last week’s briefing included what appeared to be new information: that Russia intended to interfere with the 2020 Democratic primaries as well as the general election.

On Wednesday, the president announced that he was replacing Mr. Maguire with Richard Grenell, the ambassador to Germany and an aggressively vocal Trump supporter. And though some current and former officials speculated that the briefing might have played a role in that move. *Read more*


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

RabzonKhan said:


> The Russian KGB thug is back, he is backing Trump’s re-election and once again supporting Bernie Sanders in Democratic primaries (Russia supported Bernie in 2016 Democratic primary against Hillary), according to the Washington Post and New York Times.


Bernie is a bad guy?


----------



## RabzonKhan

Trump in his speeches and interviews keeps on bragging how the “US economy is the best in history”.

But recently slashed pay raise for federal workers, cited “serious economic conditions”.

See the doubletalk!

So, what is it, do we have the “best economy in the history” or do we have “serious economic conditions”?

How can we have “best economy in the history” when we can’t even give a pay raise to federal workers.


*Trump quietly slashes pay raise for federal workers a day before claiming US economy best in history. Source

*
Meanwhile, Hollywood actor Clint Eastwood who had voted for Trump in 2016 and had been a strong supporter has changed his mind. He is now supporting Mike Bloomberg. 

Eastwood in an interview to right-leaning Wall Street Journal endorse former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, stating, “The best thing we could do is just get Mike Bloomberg in there.” *Source *



Syed Hammad Ahmed said:


> Bernie is a bad guy?


Bernie is a good man. But some of his policy proposals are not achievable and even scares the hell out of most moderate Democrats like me. In general election he has very little chance of winning against Trump.

Let’s take for example, Medicare for all, single–payer healthcare system that Bernie is pushing would cost between $32 to 40 trillion additional spending over its first decade in operation. And that’s more than the government spends on Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security combined.

When given a choice between single–payer or Public Option that moderate Democrats, Biden, Pete, Amy and Mike Bloomberg are proposing, not only Democrats but overwhelmingly majority of Americans support public option over single–payer.

There are over 160 million Americans with employer-based coverage most of them feel quite uncomfortable with Bernie’s, my way or the highway attitude.


----------



## RabzonKhan

Thanks to the divided moderate Democrat candidates, Bernie easily won the Nevada caucus. I see a lot of similarities between Democrats primary 2020 and Republican primary of 2016.

Just like the 2016 Republican had the largest number of candidates ever, Democrat field is also one of its largest.

In 2016 Republican primary, the mainstream candidates, Bush, Christie, Rubio, and Kasich (to name a few) were attacking one another than Trump. In the last Democrat debate in Nevada almost all moderate Democrats joined Warren and Bernie to attack moderate Bloomberg, even though he was not on Nevada ballot.

That kind of foolishness tremendously benefits Bernie, Just like it benefited Trump. While there are still more than five moderate Democrats dividing each other’s votes, while Bernie is building momentum. And if this madness continues then I think it will become very difficult to stop Bernie, just like in the end it became very difficult for Rubio, Kasich and Ted Cruz to stop Trump’s momentum.


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## RabzonKhan

Mike Bloomberg has some hard-hitting ads. I'm loving it! 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1228755924115955712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1230246494952992768"


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## RabzonKhan

What a loser, he is a weak man, he damn knows he cannot win without cheating.

He can play all the dirty tricks he wants, but I’m pretty sure Joe Biden is going to win South Carolina, the only question is with how much margin.


*Trump Calls on Supporters in South Carolina to Vote for Sanders in Primary*
By DANIEL POLITI FEB 29, 2020

President Donald Trump called on Republicans to take part in South Carolina’s Democratic primary and vote for the candidate who would be easiest to beat but still has a real shot at the nomination. After polling the audience via cheers and clapping, Trump determined that the one who fit the bill was Sen. Bernie Sanders.

During his rally in South Carolina on Friday, Trump first expressed hope that “this is OK from a campaign finance standpoint.” He even asked South Carolina Sens. Tim Scott and Lindsey Graham for some legal advice: “Are we allowed to tell them who we would like them to vote for?” It seems Trump decided that he’d be in the clear if he conducted it as a poll. “Who would be the best candidate for us?” he asked, having made clear he was looking to identify the “weakest” contender in the Democratic field. South Carolina has an open primary system where members of any party can participate in the Democratic primary and some are urging conservatives to take part in the vote.

Trump quickly started discarding candidates. “We won’t include Steyer cause he’s a loser, he’s out,” Trump said, referring to billionaire Tom Steyer. He then proceeded to disqualify Michael Bloomberg. “Mini Mike is gone, I think he’s gone, he doesn’t have a chance … so let’s forget it,” he said. Trump also disqualified Sens. Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar. “Pocahontas, we can forget about her,” Trump said of Warren. “How about Klobuchar? Not gonna happen.” *That means “we’re really down to two candidates—sleepy Joe Biden or crazy Bernie.” Trump made sure the crowd understood that the question was “who the hell is easier to beat.” After a poll and a recount, Trump declared Sanders the winner.* *Source*


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## RabzonKhan

Joe Biden won big in South Carolina. Trump and Republican party’s “mission chaos” turned into mission big flop. 

But tomorrow is going to be the big test, known as Super Tuesday, which is the biggest day of Democratic primary, around 14 states and territories will take part. More than 1360 delegates are at stake, one must win 1991 delegates to win the Democrat party’s nomination for president.

The other good news for Biden was that Amy, Pete and Tom Steyer all dropped out of presidential race. Amy and Pete are both expected to announce their support for Biden.


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## RabzonKhan

I am loving it. 

*Without any damn doubt, “One Of The Greatest Political Comebacks In Modern American History.”*






*Super Tuesday result. So far, Biden has won:*

Alabama

Arkansas

Massachusetts

Minnesota

North Carolina

Oklahoma

Tennessee

Texas

Virginia

===============

*Bernie won:*

California

Colorado

Vermont

=====================

*Bloomberg won:*

Americans Samoa (American territory)


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## Pakistani Fighter

RabzonKhan said:


> I am loving it.
> 
> *Without any damn doubt, “One Of The Greatest Political Comebacks In Modern American History.”*
> 
> View attachment 611043
> 
> 
> *Super Tuesday result. So far, Biden has won:*
> 
> Alabama
> 
> Arkansas
> 
> Massachusetts
> 
> Minnesota
> 
> North Carolina
> 
> Oklahoma
> 
> Tennessee
> 
> Texas
> 
> Virginia
> 
> ===============
> 
> *Bernie won:*
> 
> California
> 
> Colorado
> 
> Vermont
> 
> =====================
> 
> *Bloomberg won:*
> 
> Americans Samoa (American territory)


I hope bernie Wins. He cares for Muslims of India


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## RabzonKhan

The good news keeps coming in! 

*Breaking News*

*Mike Bloomberg is suspending his presidential campaign, says he’s endorsing Biden.*

Amy Wang, Michael Scherer 1 hr ago

Mike Bloomberg, the billionaire former mayor of New York who had hoped to self-fund his way to the Democratic presidential nomination but was spurned by voters in Tuesday’s balloting, has dropped out of the race.

*Bloomberg endorsed Joe Biden, saying the former vice president had the best chance to win in November. 

“I’ve always believed that defeating Donald Trump starts with uniting behind the candidate with the best shot to do it. After yesterday’s vote, it is clear that candidate is my friend and a great American, Joe Biden,” Bloomberg said in a statement. *

*Bloomberg will put his resources “in the broadest way possible behind Joe Biden’s candidacy,” Tim O’Brien, a senior adviser to the Bloomberg campaign, said Wednesday. “We have long-term leases and long-term contracts with the team and the intention was always to put this big machine we have built behind whoever the nominee is.” *

Biden, in turn, has signaled he will welcome Bloomberg’s financial support, drawing a sharp contrast with Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), whose advisers have said they would reject any independent assistance from the billionaire.

“This race is bigger than candidates and bigger than politics," Biden declared in a tweet addressed to Bloomberg Wednesday morning. “It’s about defeating Donald Trump, and with your help, we’re gonna do it.”

Bloomberg, a media tycoon worth an estimated $60 billion, entered the race in November and quickly spent hundreds of millions of dollars of his own money to flood social media, television and radio with ads that boasted “Mike Will Get It Done.” In a still-crowded field, Bloomberg projected an image through the airwaves as a moderate candidate with the governing experience, bravado and financial resources to take on President Trump. *Read more
*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Pakistani Fighter

RabzonKhan said:


> The good news keeps coming in!
> 
> *Breaking News*
> 
> *Mike Bloomberg is suspending his presidential campaign, says he’s endorsing Biden.*
> 
> Amy Wang, Michael Scherer 1 hr ago
> 
> Mike Bloomberg, the billionaire former mayor of New York who had hoped to self-fund his way to the Democratic presidential nomination but was spurned by voters in Tuesday’s balloting, has dropped out of the race.
> 
> *Bloomberg endorsed Joe Biden, saying the former vice president had the best chance to win in November.
> 
> “I’ve always believed that defeating Donald Trump starts with uniting behind the candidate with the best shot to do it. After yesterday’s vote, it is clear that candidate is my friend and a great American, Joe Biden,” Bloomberg said in a statement. *
> 
> *Bloomberg will put his resources “in the broadest way possible behind Joe Biden’s candidacy,” Tim O’Brien, a senior adviser to the Bloomberg campaign, said Wednesday. “We have long-term leases and long-term contracts with the team and the intention was always to put this big machine we have built behind whoever the nominee is.” *
> 
> Biden, in turn, has signaled he will welcome Bloomberg’s financial support, drawing a sharp contrast with Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), whose advisers have said they would reject any independent assistance from the billionaire.
> 
> “This race is bigger than candidates and bigger than politics," Biden declared in a tweet addressed to Bloomberg Wednesday morning. “It’s about defeating Donald Trump, and with your help, we’re gonna do it.”
> 
> Bloomberg, a media tycoon worth an estimated $60 billion, entered the race in November and quickly spent hundreds of millions of dollars of his own money to flood social media, television and radio with ads that boasted “Mike Will Get It Done.” In a still-crowded field, Bloomberg projected an image through the airwaves as a moderate candidate with the governing experience, bravado and financial resources to take on President Trump. *Read more
> *


I hope Sanders Win


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## Hamartia Antidote

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Elizabeth Warren...’nuff said!



She is out! Is that the end of the Liberal Left and/or are they now hugging Socialists?

@Desert Fox

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RabzonKhan

Joe versus Bernie.

Well, as was expected, the race is now between two candidates, and thank goodness to that. Since all the moderate Democrats dropped out and are now fully supporting Joe Biden.

Democrats/Independent voters have a choice between Bernie’s progressive and Biden’s moderate agenda.

The fact is that most Democrats are moderate (center-left), I don’t think there is essentially any chance for Bernie to win the nomination.













Hamartia Antidote said:


> She is out! Is that the end of the Liberal Left and/or are they now hugging Socialists?
> 
> @Desert Fox


From day one I knew Warren had no path. When we try to please everyone. We end up pleasing no one. And I think that that was the main problem with her message. She was trying to please the progressive and moderate wings of Democrat party. No doubt, there are many things that are common between both wings but then there are some strong differences that one cannot ignore.

Bernie is the voice of the liberal left and even after Bernie the liberal left is going nowhere, unfortunately.


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## Desert Fox

Hamartia Antidote said:


> She is out! Is that the end of the Liberal Left and/or are they now hugging Socialists?
> 
> @Desert Fox


Let's hope Bernie gets knocked off that list too. Bernie is the only candidate with potential to challenge Trump.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yankee-stani

Desert Fox said:


> Let's hope Bernie gets knocked off that list too. Bernie is the only candidate with potential to challenge Trump.


A part of me wants Bernie to get elected and have his base get disappointed like the MAGA crowd did when Trump became President this in a way shows the exact reason American Liberal Democracy is a farce


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## RabzonKhan

Joe is unstoppable! 

A new CNN/SSRS poll shows.

52% support Joe and 36% Bernie.








(CNN)Former Vice President Joe Biden has a double-digit lead over Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders for the Democratic presidential nomination, a new CNN poll of Democratic voters nationwide conducted by SSRS shows.

Biden is now the choice of a majority of Democratic voters nationwide, according to the poll, which was taken in the days after the former vice president's stronger-than-expected showing across Super Tuesday contests and as the field of Democratic contenders with a realistic shot at winning the nomination narrowed to two.

The poll finds 52% of registered voters who are Democrats or Democratic-leaning independents say they want to see Biden win the nomination, while 36% say they'd rather see Sanders win.

Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, who dropped out of the race on Thursday, lands at 7% in the poll. That is largely due to her 18% showing in interviews conducted on Wednesday, before she ended her campaign. *Among those interviewed after she left the contest, Biden's support rose to 57%, Sanders stood at 36%, while 2% volunteered that they still backed Warren. Another 6% chose someone else or were unsure about who they would support.*

*Biden's successful Super Tuesday appears to have led to a rebound in his favorability rating (48% overall now hold a positive view, up from 39% in December), while Sanders has hit his highest unfavorability rating yet in CNN polling back to 2015 (52% hold an unfavorable view of him, up from 44% in December).*

Warren is the only candidate of the four Democrats who recently ended their campaigns who earns largely positive favorability ratings from both backers of Biden and of Sanders. Warren has yet to endorse a candidate in the nomination fight, while former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, former South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg and Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar have all thrown their support behind Biden and receive mostly positive views from Biden's backers. They receive less positive views from those supporting Sanders.

*Overall, Biden holds a nearly 20-point edge among white voters and 10-point one among non-whites, as Sanders' strength among Latino voters cancels out a bit of Biden's edge among African Americans. But there remain sharp divides within the party across age groups, ideological views and party affiliation. Among those under age 45, Sanders tops Biden by 26 points, 57% to 31%. Among voters age 45 or older, it's a 72% to 17% advantage for Biden. Source*


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## RabzonKhan

I voted for Joe Biden in the Washington State Primary. Feeling good!







===========================================

Today is another important Tuesday for the Democratic primary. There are six states, Idaho, Mississippi, Missouri, North Dakota, Washington (where I live), Michigan and Democrats Abroad (overseas Democrat voters), with 352 delegates up for grabs.

All eyes are on the key battleground state of Michigan one of the most important states. In 2016 primary Bernie won the state and in the general election, Trump flipped normally a blue state by winning with only 12,000 votes.

Joe is favorite to win Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri and North Dakota.

Bernie has a better chance in Idaho, Washington and Democrats Abroad.


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## F-22Raptor

The Sanders campaign is on life support. Biden vs Trump election in Nov.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RabzonKhan

Another Sweet Victory!

Joe won four out of the six states primaries- Mississippi, Missouri, Idaho and the very important state of Michigan. Bernie won North Dakota. Votes are still being counted (my home state) Washington.






============================

According to NPR's delegate tracker, *Biden had 847 delegates* as of Wednesday morning and *Sanders had 685.* These numbers are expected to grow as results continue to trickle in over the coming days. To secure the nomination, a candidate needs to win a majority of delegates, meaning at least 1,991.


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## RabzonKhan

Now, this is what I will call a comprehensive and commonsense plan.

Biden's plan calls for a number of measures, including the establishment of an effective national response to the virus through making testing free and widely available, as well as the establishment of 10 mobile sites and drive-thru facilities per state.

“We’ll never fully solve this problem if we’re unwilling to look beyond our own borders and engage fully with the rest of the world,” Biden said. “We have to confront the coronavirus everywhere.”

Biden also rightfully criticize the Trump Administration lousy response, “unfortunately, this virus laid bare to serve shortcoming current administration. Public sphere are being compounded by the pervasive lack of trust in this president.”

Biden is absolutely right, every time Trump opens up his mouth, the damn stock-market nosedives, yesterday he announced some useless measures and today the stock market plunged 10%, and now officially is a bear market. The bottom line, market has no confidence in this crown in chief.

“Neither should be panic or fallback on xenophobia,” “Labelling COVID-19 a foreign virus does not displace accountability for the misjudgments that have been taken thus far by Trump administration. Let me be crystal clear: the coronavirus does not have a political affiliation.” Said Biden. In response to Trumps typical racist and political BS. Trump has referred to the virus as “foreign”, and had retweeted a racist tweet from one of his brain-dead follower who referred to coronavirus as “China Virus”. Trump in one of his rally criticize the Democrats for questioning his handling of the coronavirus, by saying “this is their new hoax”. 



*THE BIDEN PLAN TO COMBAT CORONAVIRUS (COVID-19) AND PREPARE FOR FUTURE GLOBAL HEALTH THREATS*

*THE BIDEN PLAN TO COMBAT CORONAVIRUS (COVID-19) AND PREPARE FOR FUTURE GLOBAL HEALTH THREATS
*
The American people deserve an urgent, robust, and professional response to the growing public health and economic crisis caused by the coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak. That is why Joe Biden is outlining a plan to mount: 


A decisive public health response that ensures the wide availability of free testing; the elimination of all cost barriers to preventive care and treatment for COVID-19; the development of a vaccine; and the full deployment and operation of necessary supplies, personnel, and facilities.
A decisive economic response that starts with emergency paid leave for all those affected by the outbreak and gives all necessary help to workers, families, and small businesses that are hit hard by this crisis. Make no mistake: this will require an immediate set of ambitious and progressive economic measures, and further decisive action to address the larger macro-economic shock from this outbreak. 
Biden believes we must spend whatever it takes, without delay, to meet public health needs and deal with the mounting economic consequences. The federal government must act swiftly and aggressively to help protect and support our families, small businesses, first responders and caregivers essential to help us face this challenge, those who are most vulnerable to health and economic impacts, and our broader communities – not to blame others or bail out corporations. 

Public health emergencies require disciplined, trustworthy leadership grounded in science. In a moment of crisis, leadership requires listening to experts and communicating credible information to the American public. We must move boldly, smartly, and swiftly. Biden knows how to mount an effective crisis response and elevate the voices of scientists, public health experts, and first responders. He helped lead the Obama-Biden Administration’s effective response to the 2009 H1N1 pandemic and the 2014 Ebola epidemic. Biden also helped lead the response to the greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression and ran point on implementation of the Recovery Act. He knows how to get relief out the door to families, as well as resources to state and local officials to deal with the challenges they are facing.

And, even as we respond to this crisis, we must prepare for the next one. As President, Biden will establish and manage a permanent, professional, sufficiently resourced public health and first responder system that protects the American people by scaling up biomedical research, deploying rapid testing capacity, ensuring robust nationwide disease surveillance, sustaining a first class public health and first responder workforce, establishing a flexible emergency budgeting authority, and mobilizing the world to ensure greater sustained preparedness for future pandemics. 

Congress has taken a step forward by passing an initial bipartisan emergency plan to combat COVID-19. The Trump Administration must now heed the calls of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer to put the health and safety of the American people first. Much more needs to be done, now, to bring our country together, respond to this emergency, and set the groundwork for bold, long-term reforms, including ensuring quality, affordable health care and a comprehensive paid leave program for every American. 

Biden will be ready on Day One of his Administration to protect this country’s health and well-being. But he is not waiting until then to communicate his views on what must be done now to properly serve the American people. Biden believes the following steps must immediately be taken. If Trump does not take them, Biden will on Day One as President.

*The Biden Plan calls for:*


Restoring trust, credibility, and common purpose.
Mounting an effective national emergency response that saves lives, protects frontline workers, and minimizes the spread of COVID-19.
Eliminating cost barriers for prevention of and care for COVID-19.
Pursuing decisive economic measures to help hard-hit workers, families, and small businesses and to stabilize the American economy.
Rallying the world to confront this crisis while laying the foundation for the future.

Biden understands that this is a dynamic situation. The steps proposed below are a start. As the crisis unfolds, Biden will build on this policy to address new challenges.

*RESTORING TRUST, CREDIBILITY, AND COMMON PURPOSE *

*Stop the political theater and willful misinformation that has heightened confusion and discrimination.* Biden believes we must immediately put scientists and public health leaders front and center in communication with the American people in order to provide regular guidance and deliver timely public health updates, including by immediately establishing daily, expert-led press briefings. This communication is essential to combating the dangerous epidemic of fear, chaos, and stigmatization that can overtake communities faster than the virus. Acts of racism and xenophobia against the Asian American and Pacific Islander community must not be tolerated.

*Ensure that public health decisions are made by public health professionals and not politicians, *and officials engaged in the response do not fear retribution or public disparagement for performing their jobs. 

*Immediately restore the White House National Security Council Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense, *which was established by the Obama-Biden Administration and eliminated by the Trump Administration in 2018. 

*MOUNTING AN EFFECTIVE NATIONAL EMERGENCY RESPONSE THAT SAVES LIVES, PROTECTS FRONTLINE WORKERS, AND MINIMIZES THE SPREAD OF COVID-19*

*Make Testing Widely Available and Free*

*Ensure that every person who needs a test can get one* – *and that testing for those who need it is free*. Individuals should also not have to pay anything out of their own pockets for the visit at which the test is ordered, regardless of their immigration status. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) must draw on advice from outside scientists to clarify the criteria for testing, including consideration of prioritizing first responders and health care workers so they can return to addressing the crisis.

*Establish at least ten mobile testing sites and drive-through facilities per state to speed testing and protect health care workers. Starting in large cities and rapidly expanding beyond, the CDC must work with private labs and manufacturers to ensure adequate production capacity, quality control, training, and technical assistance. The number of tests must be in the millions, not the thousands.*

*Provide a daily public White House report on how many tests have been done* by the CDC, state and local health authorities, and private laboratories. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

Two weeks ago, Trump called coronavirus a “Democrat hoax” at a South Carolina rally. And now he is forced to declare a state of emergency, what a loser.

When he was elected, I knew he was going to be bad for the country, but even I didn’t think he’ll be so bad. Most Americans do not trust him because he’s such a notorious liar. He does not take responsibility for anything he does. The “stable genius” always blames others, nothing is ever his fault. The hallmark of a loser mentality!

His handling of coronavirus has been so bad that even one of the most powerful financial Corp JPMorgan has given up on him. I’m loving it.

*JPMORGAN: The best case scenario for stocks is a Biden presidency with a Republican Senate*

A Joe Biden presidency would be better for markets than a second Trump term, but only if Republicans keep the Senate, JPMorgan analysts said.

The bank laid out its best- and worst-case scenarios for the "wildcard" 2020 elections in a Wednesday note. A Biden presidency with a Republican Senate would best serve markets as the Trump tax regime would likely continue, the analysts wrote. The 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act boosted the historically long bull market, lowering corporate taxes and triggering increased stock buybacks.

A Biden presidency with a divided government would do away with Trump's "randomly-timed disruptions from foreign/trade policy" while keeping his market-friendly economic policies, JPMorgan wrote. *Source*


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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

The race is over! Joe is unstoppable! It’s high time for Bernie to end his campaign. All Democrats need to focus on our common enemy.



*Biden has broken all the 'rules' of presidential primaries*

*Albert Hunt, opinion contributor*

*



*

Joe Biden continued his once-improbable march to the Democratic presidential nomination Tuesday, trouncing Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) in major primaries, with a decent turnout despite the coronavirus pandemic.

*A landslide in Florida, with the third-most Democratic convention delegates, and a decisive victory in Illinois, with the sixth-largest bloc, gives the former vice president a delegate lead of more than 300, and he'll rack up even more with a clear win in Arizona - a clean sweep.*

Because of the deadly pandemic, Ohio called off its presidential primary yesterday, and the Georgia contest next week also has been postponed. In that context, turnout was surprisingly high in Florida and Arizona. This reflects the intensity Democrats feel this 
year.

It is virtually impossible for Sanders to catch Biden now, regardless of when primaries are held. The Vermont socialist will likely now focus on pressuring Biden and the party to move left.

Barack Obama's vice president will have to delicately handle his appeal to the Sanders wing while not turning off independent-minded voters who want to get rid of Trump.

But wrapping up the nod this early makes the task easier.

*The Biden turnaround, going from front-runner a year ago to a failed candidacy a month ago, to inevitable nominee today, is unprecedented in American politics.*

*Every rule I learned in covering presidential politics for almost a half century has been broken, including: 

No one loses both Iowa and New Hampshire and wins the nomination. An also-ran in these first contests loses momentum, money and political support. Serious contenders failed miserably to jump start campaigns. *For the Democrats in 1976, Sen. Henry Jackson skipped New Hampshire - and when Jimmy Carter won the Granite State, it effectively ended Jackson's hopes. In 2008, the early Republican front-runner Rudy Giuliani - really he once was a serious person - figured he'd take off in the big Florida primary. But after John McCain won New Hampshire, support for "America's Mayor" plummeted; he dropped out nine days before the Florida primary. Biden, however, finished fourth in Iowa, fifth in New Hampshire and is now on his way to November.

_Endorsements don't really matter in the modern media age._ Witness the last two presidents. In 2007, the establishment candidate, Hillary Clinton, cornered scores of high-level endorsements - far more than Barack Obama - to little avail. Four years ago, about the only top Republican to endorse Donald Trump was Alabama Sen. Jeff Sessions. (The president showed his sense of loyalty this month by endorsing Sessions' opponent in a primary.) Then there was Jim Clyburn. Joe Biden might have won the South Carolina primary last month anyway - but the eloquent endorsement of Rep. Clyburn, the most important African American office holder in the party, generated the Biden avalanche in South Carolina, carrying over to Super Tuesday three days later.

*Money is the mother's milk of politics, especially if one candidate has a lot, the other very little. By Super Tuesday, Mike Bloomberg was spending more than a half a billion dollars, while Biden was too strapped to even have offices in some of the states in play. Biden won 10 of 14 states that day, picking up 632 delegates. Bloomberg won American Somoa. The "Big Mo" triumphed - momentum not money.*

_Democrats - in a change election - turn to younger, outside-the-Beltway candidates._ Think Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama. They conveyed change, a new day. This time, the party is turning to a 77-year-old who was first elected to the Senate before any of the current members of Congress arrived.

The answer lies in Democratic voters who passionately want change - to defeat the incumbent.

They've come to see Biden as the antidote to Trump: honorable, experienced, sound and decent. *Source*


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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

*How Did We Get Here* 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1242967501442412544


----------



## Pakistani Fighter

RabzonKhan said:


> I voted for Joe Biden in the Washington State Primary. Feeling good!
> 
> 
> View attachment 612626
> 
> 
> ===========================================
> 
> Today is another important Tuesday for the Democratic primary. There are six states, Idaho, Mississippi, Missouri, North Dakota, Washington (where I live), Michigan and Democrats Abroad (overseas Democrat voters), with 352 delegates up for grabs.
> 
> All eyes are on the key battleground state of Michigan one of the most important states. In 2016 primary Bernie won the state and in the general election, Trump flipped normally a blue state by winning with only 12,000 votes.
> 
> Joe is favorite to win Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri and North Dakota.
> 
> Bernie has a better chance in Idaho, Washington and Democrats Abroad.


Thas very bad


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## Dr. Strangelove

As far as Pakistan is concerned Trump was way better than Obama every time Democrats come in power they try to **** us over.


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## Pax Ottomana

*Privileged Old White Millionaire* ---vs--- *Privileged Old White Millionaire*

And Americans think they've got a REAL choice/democracy?


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## RabzonKhan

Moron!









Dr. Strangelove said:


> As far as Pakistan is concerned Trump was way better than Obama every time Democrats come in power they try to **** us over.


I do not know what makes you think Democrats are hostile to Pakistan?

The foreign policy of United States is a national policy, not a Republican or Democrat policy. The fact is that US foreign policy has traditionally been fairly consistent between Republicans and Democrats (Trump in some ways is an exception), regardless of which party is in power, the United States foreign policy goals are to safeguard its interests.



Vord said:


> *Privileged Old White Millionaire* ---vs--- *Privileged Old White Millionaire*
> 
> And Americans think they've got a REAL choice/democracy?


There is nothing wrong with being “old white privileged millionaire”.

Maybe you did not notice, but we did have lot of choices, on the Democrat side we had almost 29 candidates and there were even three Republicans candidates challenging Trump in the primary.


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## Pax Ottomana

RabzonKhan said:


> Maybe you did not notice, but we did have lot of choices, on the Democrat side we had almost 29 candidates and there were even three Republicans candidates challenging Trump in the primary.


No, you didn't have a lot of choices at all. In presidential elections, people vote on the party nominees, not candidates that got eliminated along the way. In the end your "*Choice*" is between two puppets who the rich and powerful have backed along the way, and who will spend their 4 year term paying them back by adopting policies that benefit the rich and the powerful at common Joe's expense. This is the reason why the top %0.1 own as much wealth as the bottom 90% of Americans and that income disparity is continuing to skyrocket.


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## RabzonKhan1

General Mattis spoke out after Trump threatened to deploy military to American cities. I totally agree his words are true. Trump is a big fat lousy failure, he failed to handle the coronavirus crisis in early months of pandemic and because of his failure more than 110,000 Americans are dead, while the economic toll so far has left more than 40 million people out of work. He once again miserably failed to cope with the aftermath over the abhorrent murder of George Floyd at the hands of racist Minneapolis police officers.


*James Mattis Speaks Out*
*The former secretary of defense broke his silence, denouncing President Donald Trump.*

“I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled,” Mattis writes. “The words ‘Equal Justice Under Law’ are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.” He goes on, “We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution.”

In his j’accuse, Mattis excoriates the president for setting Americans against one another.

“Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”

He goes on to contrast the American ethos of unity with Nazi ideology. “Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that ‘The Nazi slogan for destroying us … was “Divide and Conquer.” Our American answer is “In Union there is Strength.”’ We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.” *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan1




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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

*Biden shreds Trump for calling Friday a 'great day' for George Floyd*

*Pointing to a promising jobs report, Trump said earlier in the day, "Hopefully, George is looking down right now and saying, 'This is a great thing happening for our country.'"

By Adam Edelman
*
Joe Biden blasted President Donald Trump for remarking Friday that “this is a great day for” George Floyd — who died last week in police custody — while touting positive economic data.

*Speaking in Dover, Del., the apparent Democratic presidential nominee ripped into Trump for “speaking of a man who was brutally killed by an act of needless violence” and accused the president of failing to curb a “larger tide of injustice that has metastasized on” his watch.*

At a news conference earlier Friday to address May unemployment figures that were released in the morning, Trump said, “Hopefully, George is looking down right now and saying, 'This is a great thing happening for our country.'”

"This is a great day for him, it's a great day for everybody,” the president said.

*In his remarks Friday, Biden responded, “George Floyd's last words, ‘I can't breathe. I can't breathe,’ they've echoed all across this nation, quite frankly around the world. For the president to try to put any other words in the mouth of George Floyd I frankly think is despicable."
*
Floyd, who was black, died on Memorial Day when a white Minneapolis police officer planted a knee into his neck for nearly nine minutes during a violent arrest.

His death has sparked days of nationwide protests against racism and police brutality in America. *Read more*


*
*


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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan




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## Pakistani Fighter

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 640614


Berine should had been nominee instead of Biden. trump is now gonna be second time President


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## RabzonKhan

Pakistani Fighter said:


> Berine should had been nominee instead of Biden. trump is now gonna be second time President


Bernie is a good man and I have great respect for him, but if Bernie cannot even win Democratic primary how could you think he would had won in the general election?


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## Pakistani Fighter

RabzonKhan said:


> Bernie is a good man and I have great respect for him, but if Bernie cannot even win Democratic primary how could you think he would had won in the general election?


Its all rigged. They made Hillary and now Biden win. You will see how Trump is going to defeat Biden unfortunately


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## RabzonKhan

What makes you think elections were rigged? The way Trump has handled Coronavirus and George Floyd/racist cop Murder case, he's is doomed. This time Democrats are going to win the White House and the Senate.

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## RabzonKhan

This is what makes America a great Nation!


*



*

*Top general apologizes for appearing in photo-op with Trump after forceful removal of protesters*
By Ryan Browne, Barbara Starr and Zachary Cohen, CNN

Updated 1:24 PM ET, Thu June 11, 2020

Washington (CNN)America's top general has apologized for appearing in a photo-op with President Donald Trump following the forceful dispersal of peaceful protesters outside the White House last week, *calling the move a "mistake" and saying his presence "created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics."*

Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. said during a pre-recorded speech released on Thursday that he regrets accompanying Trump on a walk from the White House to St. John's Church last week where he was photographed wearing his combat uniform and moving with the President's entourage through Lafayette Square.

The images provoked a swift wave of criticism from lawmakers and several senior former military officials who said they risked dragging the traditionally apolitical military into a contentious domestic political situation.

"As senior leaders, everything you do will be closely watched. And I am not immune. As many of you saw, the result of the photograph of me at Lafayette Square last week. That sparked a national debate about the role of the military in civil society," Milley said in his pre-recorded speech to a group of graduates from the National Defense University.

"I should not have been there. My presence in that moment and in that environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics. As a commissioned uniformed officer, it was a mistake that I have learned from, and I sincerely hope we all can learn from it," he added.

*Milley also said that he was "outraged" by the killing of George Floyd and added that the protests it sparked spoke to "centuries of injustice toward African Americans." Read more*


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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan




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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan1 said:


> General Mattis spoke out after Trump threatened to deploy military to American cities. I totally agree his words are true. Trump is a big fat lousy failure, he failed to handle the coronavirus crisis in early months of pandemic and because of his failure more than 110,000 Americans are dead, while the economic toll so far has left more than 40 million people out of work. He once again miserably failed to cope with the aftermath over the abhorrent murder of George Floyd at the hands of racist Minneapolis police officers.
> 
> 
> *James Mattis Speaks Out*
> *The former secretary of defense broke his silence, denouncing President Donald Trump.*
> 
> “I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled,” Mattis writes. “The words ‘Equal Justice Under Law’ are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.” He goes on, “We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution.”
> 
> In his j’accuse, Mattis excoriates the president for setting Americans against one another.
> 
> “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”
> 
> He goes on to contrast the American ethos of unity with Nazi ideology. “Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that ‘The Nazi slogan for destroying us … was “Divide and Conquer.” Our American answer is “In Union there is Strength.”’ We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.” *Read more*



You know, when every single reputable individual from Tillerson to Mattis to Kelly to, well, I don't know how reputable Bolton is lol but the way they're trying to block his book so badly is just evidence that it essentially trashes the orange baboon to the max, especially the part where he says that not one single decision was made while he was there was done without recognizing how it would affect his reelection lol wow, is not surprising the degree of narcissism in that. While of course the others called him a moron to all sort of other degrading "compliments" are really not surprising.

And YAAAAAY, DACA recipients a win for all you folks congratulations and surprisingly from this tilted SCOTUS nonetheless!!! 5-4 against it we all know where that lowlife Kavanaugh sided with. 

How about when he claimed he was "inspecting" the bunker LMFAO and then his puppet Barr goes on some network I forget to save his *** on how they had to use force to clear the demonstrators out of there because "when the secret service recommends you go to the bunker for safety"......LOLLLL! What a backfire that was. But then again, we've become so immune to the incredible lies coming from this POS ooof.

Oh and how about the part in Bolton's book where he claims that the orange baboon told President Xi of China that "it's the right thing to build concentration camps for the Chinese Muslims"? We've known this POS was severely racist against Muslims for a long time and this is not surprising. Not once did he wish *American Muslims* anything regarding a happy Ramadan or happy Eid. Not once! That is truly a PIECE OF S**T.

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> You know, when every single reputable individual from Tillerson to Mattis to Kelly to, well, I don't know how reputable Bolton is lol but the way they're trying to block his book so badly is just evidence that it essentially trashes the orange baboon to the max, especially the part where he says that not one single decision was made while he was there was done without recognizing how it would affect his reelection lol wow, is not surprising the degree of narcissism in that. While of course the others called him a moron to all sort of other degrading "compliments" are really not surprising.
> 
> And YAAAAAY, DACA recipients a win for all you folks congratulations and surprisingly from this tilted SCOTUS nonetheless!!! 5-4 against it we all know where that lowlife Kavanaugh sided with.
> 
> How about when he claimed he was "inspecting" the bunker LMFAO and then his puppet Barr goes on some network I forget to save his *** on how they had to use force to clear the demonstrators out of there because "when the secret service recommends you go to the bunker for safety"......LOLLLL! What a backfire that was. But then again, we've become so immune to the incredible lies coming from this POS ooof.
> 
> Oh and how about the part in Bolton's book where he claims that the orange baboon told President Xi of China that "it's the right thing to build concentration camps for the Chinese Muslims"? We've known this POS was severely racist against Muslims for a long time and this is not surprising. Not once did he wish *American Muslims* anything regarding a happy Ramadan or happy Eid. Not once! That is truly a PIECE OF S**T.


And you must have noticed the contradiction, on one hand he is tweeting Bolton’s book is made up of lies and fake stories” and on the other hand his government sued Bolton and charges that he violated the law by publishing classified information. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1273468029712707584





Trump held his flop rally amid the coronavirus pandemic. This just shows how incompetent, reckless, and egocentric he is, no wonder, United States is in such a big mess.

After the United States recorded its first case of coronavirus, Trump foolishly said the situation was “Totally Under Control” and “Going To Be Just Fine. After five months we all can see how things are “totally under control” and how fine things are:

More than 120,000 Americans are dead. (Highest in the world)

More than 2.3 million have the virus.

More than 45 million have lost their jobs.

More than 20 million are on unemployment benefit.

United States is in a coved-19 recession.

So far, United States has spent almost $ 7 trillion directly and indirectly to boost the economy, and all the benefits of those trillions will last till the end of July and if the government does not come up with another recovery package worth trillions then we’ll be in a worse situations that we are already in. The bad news is the economy may still take years to recover to the level it was before the virus.

The bottom line is, we all are suffering because Trump is incompetent loser, he has failed, BIGLY!

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## RabzonKhan



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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> And you must have noticed the contradiction, on one hand he is tweeting Bolton’s book is made up of lies and fake stories” and on the other hand his government sued Bolton and charges that he violated the law by publishing classified information.



The sad part is he's not bright enough to realize that! Unbelievable. How pathetic of a human. And Bolton has been making his rounds unabashedly, promoting that book like crazy even sitting down with Wolf Blitzer and tearing the baboon another new one LOLOL! That must've really gnawed at his craw!! Bolton on CNN LOLOL! And how about that despicable tweet where he took the changed version of that CNN story of the two little kids (the white one and the black one) running and hugging each other? Did you see that? What a despicable POS that guy is.

And the stuff in Bolton's book is shocking but not surprising. He makes a critical observation -- aside from all the stupid and selfish stuff we all know about -- like when he compared how the president of the United States would make decisions when he was part of George Bush's administration and how they had meetings and the staff would share critical ideas and important decisions were made based on the intel and highly qualified people's opinions AND the president was also knowledgeable about the history of not just the US, but much of the world would take all these, his advisors' opinions and what they said and base his decision on all that solid information but what does this donkey do? He bases his decision on what some of his friends tell him!?!?!?!?! That just blew my mind. I mean, I knew he was an idiot, I think we all did and an egomaniac on top of it and never goes to any of the briefings or takes intel and good advice from qualified people because like he said in his own words, he knows more that all the generals combined! But I didn't think it was that bad that he would actually base critically important decision for the country and the world based on his friend's opinions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let that sink in if we want another 4 years of this disaster. Bolton knows for a fact that Putin plays him like a fiddle. He wants these other leaders to like him and that's sometimes more important to him that the decisions that help the United States. Just some really lowly stuff. Honestly, I don't think Biden has it in him to take this dangerous thug down. I hope he does, but he'll need to lower himself to a new low and be sure he doesn't stumble on his words and forget things and all that stuff because he does have a slight problem in that aspect. Let's hope and pray!

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## King Julien

Kanye running for President

https://www.usatoday.com/story/ente...-day-tweet-running-president-2020/5378807002/


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## RabzonKhan

There goes the rule of law!

Trump campaign coordinated with Wikileaks through Trump’s long-term buddy Roger Stone. Jury convicted Stone of lying to Congress to protect Trump and corrupt President now commutes Stone’s sentence. 

So now we have two laws, one for Trump’s criminal cronies and one for all other Americans.



*Trump commutes Roger Stone's sentence*
By Shimon Prokupecz, Sara Murray, Kaitlan Collins and Katelyn Polantz, CNN 

President Donald Trump on Friday commuted the prison sentence of his longtime friend Roger Stone, who was convicted of crimes that included lying to Congress in part, prosecutors said, to protect the President. The announcement came just days before Stone was set to report to a federal prison in Georgia.

Stone was convicted in November of seven charges -- including lying to Congress, witness tampering and obstructing a congressional committee proceeding -- as part of former special counsel Robert Mueller's Russia investigation. Among the things he misled Congress about were his communications with Trump campaign officials -- communications that prosecutors said Stone hid out of his desire to protect Trump. 

Trump's decision to commute the sentence of his friend and political adviser is the crescendo of a months-long effort to rewrite the history of the Mueller investigation. This has included selective declassification of intelligence materials, a ramped-up counter-investigation into the origins of the Russia probe and attempts to drop the case against Michael Flynn. The President has broad constitutional power to pardon or commute sentences. But Trump is unlike almost any other president in how he's used the power proactively to save political allies. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> The sad part is he's not bright enough to realize that! Unbelievable. How pathetic of a human. And Bolton has been making his rounds unabashedly, promoting that book like crazy even sitting down with Wolf Blitzer and tearing the baboon another new one LOLOL! That must've really gnawed at his craw!! Bolton on CNN LOLOL! And how about that despicable tweet where he took the changed version of that CNN story of the two little kids (the white one and the black one) running and hugging each other? Did you see that? What a despicable POS that guy is.
> 
> And the stuff in Bolton's book is shocking but not surprising. He makes a critical observation -- aside from all the stupid and selfish stuff we all know about -- like when he compared how the president of the United States would make decisions when he was part of George Bush's administration and how they had meetings and the staff would share critical ideas and important decisions were made based on the intel and highly qualified people's opinions AND the president was also knowledgeable about the history of not just the US, but much of the world would take all these, his advisors' opinions and what they said and base his decision on all that solid information but what does this donkey do? He bases his decision on what some of his friends tell him!?!?!?!?! That just blew my mind. I mean, I knew he was an idiot, I think we all did and an egomaniac on top of it and never goes to any of the briefings or takes intel and good advice from qualified people because like he said in his own words, he knows more that all the generals combined! But I didn't think it was that bad that he would actually base critically important decision for the country and the world based on his friend's opinions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let that sink in if we want another 4 years of this disaster. Bolton knows for a fact that Putin plays him like a fiddle. He wants these other leaders to like him and that's sometimes more important to him that the decisions that help the United States. Just some really lowly stuff. Honestly, I don't think Biden has it in him to take this dangerous thug down. I hope he does, but he'll need to lower himself to a new low and be sure he doesn't stumble on his words and forget things and all that stuff because he does have a slight problem in that aspect. Let's hope and pray!


That was really disgusting, turning such a heart touching story into a racist BS, it just goes to show Trump’s vile character. Good, Twitter slapped the tweet with a “manipulated media” label. Twitter labels “manipulated media” tweets (videos and images) that have been deceptively fabricated or altered. He is an embarrassment to our country and a disgrace to the office he holds.

You are right, the book shocks but does not surprise. Trump has always been self-focused opportunist where everything must be about him. There are numerous examples where he has put his personal political interest above the interest of United States:

His unwavering support for KGB thug and his contempt for the Western allies is helping the Russians to achieve their long-term goal of undermining transatlantic relationship and NATO. Pressuring Ukrainian President to open a false investigation against his political opponents’ son. Recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital to please extremist Evangelicals and far right-wing Jews for their vote and donations.

Biden has called himself a “gaffe machine.” 

But Biden gaffes do not look that bad if we compare them with Trump’s dangerous lies and misstatements, according to a Washington Post, Trump has so far made more than 18,000 false and misleading statements during his Presidency.

The good news is, Biden does not have to do much to take the thug down, Trump is doing a fine job undermining his own campaign.

Majority of Americans disapprove Trump’s disastrous handling of the coronavirus pandemic and race relations, after the brutal killing of George Floyd.

I do not see his 2016 playbook is going to work in 2020. Most Americans are sick and tired of his xenophobia, sexism, and his rhetoric to pit us against one another. Trump is one of the most incompetent president in our history, who has brought most deaths, economic collapse and corruption to our country.

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## PakFactor

Just for shit and giggles my family will vote Trump approx 10-12 votes. I need this clown to win to further my own agenda.


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## RabzonKhan

A bit long, but worth the read for American voters.
*
Biden’s Buy America Plan and Trump’s Sham Nationalism*

*This is what a serious industrial policy looks like, as opposed to hollow words.*

BY ROBERT KUTTNER

President Trump took a whack at Joe Biden’s new economic plan, with its strong Buy American provisions. “He plagiarized it from me,” said Trump, in a sly reference to a controversy long ago when Biden borrowed some rhetoric from British leader Neil Kinnock.

In fact, Trump’s Buy American program is all talk and no action. The president has issued no fewer than four generalized executive orders intended to promote purchases of products made in America using government procurement. But no increased domestic procurement resulted. All of the follow up has been blocked by his own Office of Management and Budget and other cabinet departments in bed with multinational corporations.

*In his first week in office, Trump signed an impressive sounding memo requiring the pipelines for his expanded gas and oil energy program to use steel and other materials made in the USA. There was zero follow up to implement the memo.*

*Even his order, in the midst of the pandemic, to rebuild domestic supply chains for urgently needed drugs and other medical equipment, came to nothing. “There has been no increase in domestic procurement since Trump took office,” says Scott Paul, president of the Association for American Manufacturing.*

*Here as elsewhere, Trump is all about symbolism, not about delivering. Under Trump, direct government contracts to foreign suppliers are actually up 30 percent.*

A word about “Buy American.” This concept refers to several different pieces of legislation, which in practice are riddled with exceptions. 

In theory and in law, if the federal government underwrites the cost of a local transit project, the steel for a bridge or the rail cars for a subway modernization, the project should be made in America. But there are several ways around this requirement.

The rebuilding of the Verrazzano Bridge straddling New York Harbor, for instance, was built with Chinese steel. There was plenty of American steel available. How did the Port Authority, sponsor of the project, evade Buy American provisions?

The authority argued that the bridge is mostly financed by tolls, ignoring the fact that its tax-exempt bonds are a federal subsidy. A government serious about Buy American would have insisted on American steel. Ours didn’t.

In addition, other construction materials, such as concrete and electronic components, are not even covered by Buy American requirements. (Technically, Buy America refers to a broad range of domestic government procurement and Buy American refers to defense procurement.)

The Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority gets a mix of federal, state, and local funding. It is building new railcars made offshore, even though domestic suppliers 
exist. Since money is fungible, WMATA argues that it is buying the cars with its non-federal funds. What’s needed, as Biden understands, are requirements that public agencies that get federal funds must buy American.

*The original Buy American Act dates to 1933. Over the years, it has been riddled with exemptions, waivers, and weak enforcement. Buy America provisions have been inserted in laws authorizing federally subsidized infrastructure and defense spending but these are also more loophole than law.*

The obsession with hyper-globalization has further weakened Buy American. In its trade deals under the World Trade Organization and in other trade agreements, administrations of both parties have voluntarily given up their right under U.S. law to give preference to U.S.-based companies in government procurement. According to a Government Accountability Office report requested by Sen. Tammy Baldwin, the U.S. opened up as much domestic government procurement to foreign supplies as the next five largest WTO member countries combined.

*In part, there is also a chicken and egg problem. So much of U.S. industry has been hollowed out that when a local transit authority or defense weapons system is looking for a domestic supplier, either the supplier doesn’t exist, or it is a final assembly producer reliant on Chinese or Korean “partner” who is providing most of the value added.

This is what makes Biden’s plan so impressive. Not only does it close several loopholes. It specifically allocates $400 billion to domestic procurement, and another $300 billion to American industrial policy, so that there are domestic producers to rendezvous with government procurement contracts. And there is not a word of the usual bipartisan blather about the genius of free trade.*

*The plan is also admirably detailed, when it comes to closing specific loopholes in existing Buy America law and practice. For instance, current law allows products that are 51 percent domestic to be labeled Made in America. Current policy allows products created with government subsidized R&D to be invented and designed here but then manufactured offshore. Says Biden’s plan:*

*If companies benefit from taxpayer-funded research that leads to new products and profits, those products should be made in the U.S. or the company should reimburse the government for its support. The days of taxpayer benefits going to companies that seek to outsource jobs or avoid paying their fair share of taxes are over.*

*This is a revolutionary challenge, not just to Trump—but to decades of bipartisan trade policy that sold out American industry. If put into practice, Biden’s plan just might make American manufacturing great again.* *Source*


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## RabzonKhan

PakFactor said:


> Just for shit and giggles my family will vote Trump approx 10-12 votes. I need this clown to win to further my own agenda.


Without any doubt, Trump is the most racist/Isamophobic President. It is disappointing to see a Pakistanis family would want to vote for a despicable man like him, but your vote, your choice.

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## PakFactor

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 652173
> 
> 
> 
> Without any doubt, Trump is the most racist/Isamophobic President. It is disappointing to see a Pakistanis family would want to vote for a despicable man like him, but your vote, your choice.



There is a reason, he says what's on his mind, who he likes/dislikes is in the open. Muslims (aka. Pakistani's) ran like duffers to Obama twice because his alcoholic daddy was a Muslim; in the end he ended up doing more drone strikes on Pakistan that Bush; he screwed up North African Muslim countries. His VP Joe Biden wouldn't be any different, I rather vote for the wolf than a wolf in sheep clothing.


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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 652173
> 
> 
> 
> Without any doubt, Trump is the most racist/Isamophobic President. It is disappointing to see a Pakistanis family would want to vote for a despicable man like him, but your vote, your choice.



Trump is the most overtly racist and bigoted POTUS ever. Past POTUSes hid their racism and bigotry in the guise of political doublespeak, especially those from the South.

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## xeuss

RabzonKhan said:


> Without any doubt, Trump is the most racist/Isamophobic President. It is disappointing to see a Pakistanis family would want to vote for a despicable man like him, but your vote, your choice.



Agreed.

Reminds me of the story of a rich Syrian doctor in the city I live. He was among those who campaigned and voted for Trump. His primary focus was the lowering of taxes on the wealthy, a benefit that he would thoroughly enjoy. Well as fate would have it, his mother happened to fly into the US on the day Trump signed into force his Muslim ban. His mother, with a Syrian passport, was denied entry, held at the airport for around 48 hrs and then deported back to Istanbul.

I'm sure he spent a lot more on retaining lawyers than how much he saved on taxes.

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## Nilgiri

cloud4000 said:


> Trump is the most overtly racist and bigoted POTUS ever. Past POTUSes hid their racism and bigotry in the guise of political doublespeak, especially those from the South.


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## Sharma Ji

xeuss said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Reminds me of the story of a rich Syrian doctor in the city I live. He was among those who campaigned and voted for Trump. His primary focus was the lowering of taxes on the wealthy, a benefit that he would thoroughly enjoy. Well as fate would have it, his mother happened to fly into the US on the day Trump signed into force his Muslim ban. His mother, with a Syrian passport, was denied entry, held at the airport for around 48 hrs and then deported back to Istanbul.
> 
> I'm sure he spent a lot more on retaining lawyers than how much he saved on taxes.


Between Trump and Modi, which one would you say is more "Islamophobic" ?



Nilgiri said:


>


The BLM neo-marxists seem much more dangerous to the US than Farrakhan ever was.

Obongo even hosted Linda Sarsour at the white house (I think) 

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/champions/giving-back-to-the-community/linda-sarsour 



Biden is going to go the way of Lula, Evo, Bernie, Corbyn, Raul Ghandy etc.. pakki baat. 

mark this post and watch.


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## xeuss

dharmi said:


> Between Trump and Modi, which one would you say is more "Islamophobic" ?



Difficult to say. Both like rich Muslims.


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## RabzonKhan

Britain is America’s closest ally and PM Boris Johnson is a right-wing politician and he does not even like Trump, now you can imagine how nasty Trump is. 



*Boris Johnson's government is privately 'desperate' for Trump to lose the election to Joe Biden
*
The UK government is privately "desperate" for Donald Trump to lose the upcoming presidential election and be replaced by Joe Biden, according to a report by the Sunday Times.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson is publicly one of Trump's closest international allies.

However, his government has been privately trying to distance itself from the US president, in anticipation of a potential Biden victory in November, the Times reports.

"It would make things much easier if Trump doesn't win re-election," one minister in Johnson's government told the Times' reporter Tim Shipman, who added that "privately, many [others in the government] agree."

Some UK officials are also hopeful of a Biden victory.

One senior UK diplomat, who asked not to be named, told Insider earlier this month that a Biden presidency would bring a welcome end to the "venal corruption" of the Trump era.

"A lot of stuff will change if Biden wins," the diplomat said.

"The venal corruption of the Trump family and the nasty narcissistic aspects of his behavior — all that will go with a different sort of president," they said.

Biden and Johnson are not natural allies. The Democrat challenger opposed Johnson's pet project of Brexit and has reportedly previously described the UK Prime Minister as a "clone" of Trump. *Read more*





cloud4000 said:


> Trump is the most overtly racist and bigoted POTUS ever. Past POTUSes hid their racism and bigotry in the guise of political doublespeak, especially those from the South.


I understand from where you are coming. No doubt, in the past we had many racist presidents, but then most of them were “people of their time”, one can forgive some of them for their ignorance. But after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965, there is no excuse for such abhorrent behavior.

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> "A lot of stuff will change if Biden wins,"



So I'm at a crossroads of some type. I've always felt like there is a legitimate problem with Biden's cognitive ability. He's just getting old fast and just like common old folk, he's forgetting a lot of things and just isn't as sharp as he needs to be for this job. I don't think there's much of an argument there and I also worry about him going up against Trump in upcoming debates because Trump is a filthy street guy. He'll abuse Biden and "try" to smear him with his unabashed filthy behavior. He'll bring up all the touching and feeling and kissing Biden does and whether it's just friendly affection or innocent behavior, you know Trump will push that and the cognitive issue to it's fullest. He's already doing the latter on Twitter almost every day, playing clips of Biden forgetting things or matching the wrong dates with the wrong events etc. 

So I basically think that will be a huge obstacle for Biden to climb, but then I realize that we need to get that idiot out of office as soon as possible and at any cost, meaning whomever the opposite candidate is and not some malicious way! lol. Even if he becomes incapable of continuing, he'll have the ability at least to appoint a decent vice president other than that fanatic *** kissing shlep in Pence to cover just fine. So it's ok.

But then he says this:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1282419453939113989
lol, what an old dick! 
And I admit this did bother me a little and just for the record, I couldn't care less about the money or military aid or anything like that, I just feel there is a bit of disingenuous rhetoric from him and the old human rights accountability as there are many other -- and notably one very prominent one lately -- who's either on par or worst than Sisi -- and not a single mention of that. And what about Israel? What about Jerusalem? So I do have a bit of an issue with the obvious hypocrisy from the Biden camp and struggling a bit to come to terms about him. I suppose it will all depend on who he picks for VP. It better be Kamal Harris and he better stay away from Elizabeth Warren.

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## RabzonKhan

A true American hero!

Rep. John Lewis civil rights icon and last surviving organizer of the 1963 March on Washington dies at 80. Lewis, who devoted his life to racial justice and equality was undergoing treatment for pancreatic cancer.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1151155571757867011

Former President Barack Obama Eulogy at Rep. John Lewis Funeral:

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> So I'm at a crossroads of some type. I've always felt like there is a legitimate problem with Biden's cognitive ability. He's just getting old fast and just like common old folk, he's forgetting a lot of things and just isn't as sharp as he needs to be for this job. I don't think there's much of an argument there and I also worry about him going up against Trump in upcoming debates because Trump is a filthy street guy. He'll abuse Biden and "try" to smear him with his unabashed filthy behavior. He'll bring up all the touching and feeling and kissing Biden does and whether it's just friendly affection or innocent behavior, you know Trump will push that and the cognitive issue to it's fullest. He's already doing the latter on Twitter almost every day, playing clips of Biden forgetting things or matching the wrong dates with the wrong events etc.
> 
> So I basically think that will be a huge obstacle for Biden to climb, but then I realize that we need to get that idiot out of office as soon as possible and at any cost, meaning whomever the opposite candidate is and not some malicious way! lol. Even if he becomes incapable of continuing, he'll have the ability at least to appoint a decent vice president other than that fanatic *** kissing shlep in Pence to cover just fine. So it's ok.
> 
> But then he says this:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1282419453939113989
> lol, what an old dick!
> And I admit this did bother me a little and just for the record, I couldn't care less about the money or military aid or anything like that, I just feel there is a bit of disingenuous rhetoric from him and the old human rights accountability as there are many other -- and notably one very prominent one lately -- who's either on par or worst than Sisi -- and not a single mention of that. And what about Israel? What about Jerusalem? So I do have a bit of an issue with the obvious hypocrisy from the Biden camp and struggling a bit to come to terms about him. I suppose it will all depend on who he picks for VP. It better be Kamal Harris and he better stay away from Elizabeth Warren.


What you are saying is almost exactly what my progressive friends used to tell me, whenever I used to ask them when Bernie is dropping out of the race, they would point to Biden’s cognitive decline and dementia and were clinging to the belief that Bernie would totally destroy Biden on their one-on-one debate.

I will request you to please take some time and watch the debate. See how Biden played a very balancing act, not only did he successfully countered Bernie’s numerous attacks but very persuasively presented his own agenda without alienating Bernie’s progressive supporters who he will need in the general election. Biden’s successful debate performance against Bernie (Bernie is a far better debater than racist Trump) just shows how well prepared he is to face-off with Trump. It is a 2-hour long debate but worth watching.

Trump and his cronies have been running many negative ads against Biden for a long time now, I’m quite active on Facebook and Twitter I all the time see Trump supporter posting all kinds of BS videos, clips and pictures of Biden, polls show nothing is working, clearly majority of American voters do not give a damn about these petty issues, the most important issues for the American voters are the death and destruction from coronavirus, economic collapse and protests and riots for racial justice and equality.

You’re right, Trump is a filthy street guy, I am pretty hopeful Biden will stick with the important issues and will follow the old maxim; “Never wrestle with a pig,” “you both get dirty, and the pig likes it.”

In fact, Trump’s corruption, racism, and filthy language is the main reason that majority of suburban educated whites abandoned Republican party in 2018 midterm elections and polls show they are overwhelmingly supporting Biden.

Kamala Harris is good, but my favorite is Susan Rice and I do not think Elizabeth Warren has any chance.

Cheers!

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## RabzonKhan

*Fareed: Trump thinks the essence of his job is public relations.*

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## RabzonKhan

Republican Voters Against Trump


*Kyle from Kentucky is in the Army Reserves - hear why he won't be voting for Trump again:*

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## RabzonKhan

*The Lincoln Project put a laugh track under Trump's Fox News interview with Chris Wallace:
*

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## RabzonKhan

*Doug from Ohio served our country in Vietnam and Afghanistan - hear what he thinks about Trump:*

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> What you are saying is almost exactly what my progressive friends used to tell me, whenever I used to ask them when Bernie is dropping out of the race, they would point to Biden’s cognitive decline and dementia and were clinging to the belief that Bernie would totally destroy Biden on their one-on-one debate.
> 
> I will request you to please take some time and watch the debate. See how Biden played a very balancing act, not only did he successfully countered Bernie’s numerous attacks but very persuasively presented his own agenda without alienating Bernie’s progressive supporters who he will need in the general election. Biden’s successful debate performance against Bernie (Bernie is a far better debater than racist Trump) just shows how well prepared he is to face-off with Trump. It is a 2-hour long debate but worth watching.
> 
> Trump and his cronies have been running many negative ads against Biden for a long time now, I’m quite active on Facebook and Twitter I all the time see Trump supporter posting all kinds of BS videos, clips and pictures of Biden, polls show nothing is working, clearly majority of American voters do not give a damn about these petty issues, the most important issues for the American voters are the death and destruction from coronavirus, economic collapse and protests and riots for racial justice and equality.
> 
> You’re right, Trump is a filthy street guy, I am pretty hopeful Biden will stick with the important issues and will follow the old maxim; “Never wrestle with a pig,” “you both get dirty, and the pig likes it.”
> 
> In fact, Trump’s corruption, racism, and filthy language is the main reason that majority of suburban educated whites abandoned Republican party in 2018 midterm elections and polls show they are overwhelmingly supporting Biden.
> 
> Kamala Harris is good, but my favorite is Susan Rice and I do not think Elizabeth Warren has any chance.
> 
> Cheers!



I certainly hope so, my friend. Believe me, I don't go by what those nitwit twitter trumpeters claim about anything. It's what I observe and only what I see myself and he's had some pretty serious forgetful moments during his own speeches. That's what frightens me that perhaps earlier on with the democratic debates, he was fresh and on point. Now that the camaign has run its course for a while, the tiring factor might be getting to him like it would to any 77 year old fella. Even the clown in chief has some issues but he has no shame in his lying to get himself out of all that stuff. Let's face it, Trump couldn't recite a policy or articulate a single detail of any bill he signed or any executive order he pushed through, but I hope Biden can take advantage of that kinda thing. Even if Biden doesn't last God forbid, at least this disease that has infected the white house is eradicated and then whomever is VP can take over, hopefully it's Kamala Harris. But let's get this donkey show and total disgrace out no matter what.

Imagine making up crap on the fly like he "heard from generals (who BTW, I guess now they know more than him? What happened to him knowing more than any general out there?!?!??! Remember that crap?) that the Beirut explosion was a bomb?! I mean, who the hell says that kind of thing out of thin air?! This guy is brutally infected by dishonesty it's got to end! First of all, you get this info from the INTELLIGENCE not the generals you donkey crud! Oh man. 

But here's the other travesty I just came to realize today, as a matter of fact; one of the worst powers given to a president (and the sad part of that is it only came to fruition because of this sad and disgraceful individual who happens to be the current president and this precedence was never set before because there never was a president as corrupt as this imbecile) and that is the power to appoint the attorney general. This has been the worst realization because of this administration's and the powers of a president's ability to appoint the AG because of the puppet monster that is Bill Bahr. What that lower than fecal matter has done being the personal lawman for this other lower than fecal matter in the clown of a president is the most corrupt attorneys general in the history of this nation, doing the personal bidding for him instead of doing the right thing for the justice department to follow. So instead of looking for how Russia interfered in the elections and find the right course of justice for the country.........he's going after all this spying BS and FBI or whatever the donkey wants him to just so that what he can concoct....which won't be anything of substance but will be something theoretical or possibly coincidental and then he'll pop out ala James Comey just before elections to create a whole, last minute, supposed scam on the democratic party to illegally create some last minute support in the form of this false ammunition against the democratic party. All this because the attorney general is an appointed fool doing the bidding for this jackass of a president and basically being his personal lawyer at taxpayer's cost instead of being a true attorney general working for the good of the country like he's supposed to be doing. What a disgrace. All this because it has finally been done that a president has used that appointment to do the personal work to protect him instead of someone who does the job correctly for what it's there for. This right should be taken away from the president now and the AG should be elected by merit from a cast of AG from each state around the country and leave it at that. No more personal appointments to cradle the corrupt incumbent. 



RabzonKhan said:


> *The Lincoln Project put a laugh track under Trump's Fox News interview with Chris Wallace:
> *



That was great. When an entire group of your party moves out to work against you, it doesn't say much about you except that you are a total disgrace to even your own party lol. What a disaster!

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## KAL-EL

Mr. Trump miss pronounces Thailand and calls it “Thighland”

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## RabzonKhan

Excellent choice!

*Editorial: Kamala Harris VP pick shows Biden isn’t afraid to have a strong woman at his side
*
In picking California Sen. Kamala Harris to join the Democrats’ 2020 presidential ticket, Joe Biden has shown that, unlike the man currently holding the job he seeks, he’s not afraid of strong women.

It would have been disappointing but understandable if Biden had dismissed the highly qualified Harris as his running mate. She had also sought the nomination, and during the course of the primary she harshly criticized Biden’s position on busing to integrate schools and other racial justice issues. Before one CNN debate, Biden quipped, “Go easy on me, kid.” She didn’t. That’s not Harris’ style; she’s been a prosecutor for most of her professional life, not a therapist.

For this, Biden aides reportedly tried to block her selection as vice president, suggesting she lacked sufficient loyalty and deference and had too much ambition to make a good sidekick. And if Biden won, critics warned, she might spend most of her time in the West Wing preparing to run for president. That’s an absurd reason to reject a candidate. The vice presidential spot has always been seen as a launching pad for the presidency; it’s not like veeps have a whole lot else to do.

Besides, isn’t ambition something you want in a leader? Or is that a trait admirable only in men? Indeed, Harris _is_ ambitious. She had to be to overcome the obstacles she faced as both a woman and a person of color (her mother is from India and her father is Jamaican). And Harris didn’t just advance, she pioneered. She is the state’s first Black district attorney, the first woman to serve as California’s attorney general and the second Black woman to serve as a U.S. senator.

Now, she’s the first woman of color to join the Democratic presidential ticket.

As Biden heads into the most consequential president election in modern history, he sees what we do: Harris has a lot to offer the campaign and the ticket beyond being a symbol.

For one thing, Harris brings an unusual blend of social justice progressiveness and law-and-order conservatism. She has a long career of fighting to protect the downtrodden and looking for ways to reform the criminal justice system while still locking up plenty of the proverbial bad guys. She’s gone after for-profit colleges and the mortgage industry when they preyed upon her constituents. She’s outspoken (at least when she wants to be) on issues she cares about, will not be cowed by bullying, and is not afraid of being seen as overly aggressive, which can be a career killer for women. Just ask Hillary Clinton.

Her debating skills are not in doubt, as Biden well knows from personal experience. After seeing her recent exchange with Senate colleague John Cornyn (R-Texas) over a police reform bill, we look forward to watching Harris go head to head with Vice President Mike Pence in the fall. *Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

Biden Kamala


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## Yankee-stani

More reasons I am voting Trump/Pence Kamala is obviously gonna be more in line with Indian lobby and Indian interests groups


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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

If Election Were Held Today:


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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> But let's get this donkey show and total disgrace out no matter what.


Bingo! My friend, we should focus all our energy and our efforts in defeating this monumentally incompetent racist crook for the good of our country or the country will be in an irreversible decline.

Because of this incompetent man, almost 168,000 are dead, 5,270,000 sick from COVID-19, almost 17 million are unemployed, around 40 million can lose their homes for failure to pay rent/mortgage, 14 million households with children don’t have enough to eat and US national debt has grown to 26.5 (6.6 trillion under this loser) trillion.

So rather than focusing on these critical issues he’s holding useless news briefings, golfing, tweeting, name-calling, dog-whistling and playing disgusting political games.




> But here's the other travesty I just came to realize today, as a matter of fact; one of the worst powers given to a president (and the sad part of that is it only came to fruition because of this sad and disgraceful individual who happens to be the current president and this precedence was never set before because there never was a president as corrupt as this imbecile) and that is the power to appoint the attorney general. This has been the worst realization because of this administration's and the powers of a president's ability to appoint the AG because of the puppet monster that is Bill Bahr. What that lower than fecal matter has done being the personal lawman for this other lower than fecal matter in the clown of a president is the most corrupt attorneys general in the history of this nation, doing the personal bidding for him instead of doing the right thing for the justice department to follow. So instead of looking for how Russia interfered in the elections and find the right course of justice for the country.........he's going after all this spying BS and FBI or whatever the donkey wants him to just so that what he can concoct....which won't be anything of substance but will be something theoretical or possibly coincidental and then he'll pop out ala James Comey just before elections to create a whole, last minute, supposed scam on the democratic party to illegally create some last minute support in the form of this false ammunition against the democratic party. All this because the attorney general is an appointed fool doing the bidding for this jackass of a president and basically being his personal lawyer at taxpayer's cost instead of being a true attorney general working for the good of the country like he's supposed to be doing. What a disgrace. All this because it has finally been done that a president has used that appointment to do the personal work to protect him instead of someone who does the job correctly for what it's there for. This right should be taken away from the president now and the AG should be elected by merit from a cast of AG from each state around the country and leave it at that. No more personal appointments to cradle the corrupt incumbent.


According to the US Constitution “the President shall appoint, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, an Attorney General of the United States, but since we know the Republican-dominated Senate is just a rubber stamp, Barr was confirmed by the Senate in a 54–45 vote that largely fell along party lines. Clearly the “checks and balances” failed and I agree with you there should be some kind of merit based process to appoint Atty Gen.

From day one the crook has been serving Trump’s interests. He shamelessly downplayed Mueller Russia investigation findings, intervened in Flynn, Stone and Cohan cases and damn personally ordered protesters gassed for Trump’s cheap and disgusting photo-op.

You were spot on, Kamala Harris is our vice president.

Cheers!

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## RabzonKhan

*Postal carriers union endorses Biden, warns that 'survival' of USPS is at stake*
*The endorsement comes after the president's resistance to Postal Service funding, amid his fight against expanded mail-in voting.

Aug. 14, 2020, 10:08 AM PDT
By Sahil Kapur
*
WASHINGTON — Joe Biden gained the presidential endorsement of the National Association of Letter Carriers on Friday, a union that boasts nearly 300,000 active and retired postal workers.

"Vice President Biden is — was — and will continue to be — a fierce ally and defender of the United States Postal Service (USPS), letter carriers, and our fellow postal brothers and sisters," NALC president Fredric Rolando said in a statement that also praised Democratic vice presidential pick Kamala Harris.

*"Together, Biden and Harris fully exhibit the experience, dedication, thoughtfulness and steady hands that will work to ensure that letter carriers and working families are put first," he said.*

The endorsement comes less than three months before Election Day and a day after President Donald Trump said he opposes Postal Service funding pushed by Democrats, noting that those resources were necessary to advance the cause of mail-in voting during the coronavirus pandemic. *Read more*



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294350074399449089

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## RabzonKhan

*Harris 'electrifies' West Indian voters — and gives Biden a new edge in Florida

The Black West Indian diaspora community is a little-discussed but increasingly influential slice of the electorate of the nation’s biggest swing state.
*
*By MARC CAPUTO 08/15/2020
*
LAUDERHILL, Fla. — Almost as soon as Kamala Harris became the first woman of Jamaican-Indian descent to be nominated for vice president, a mock White House menu of oxtail and jerk chicken cropped up on a West Indian diaspora Facebook group called Soca de Vote.

Calls from Caribbean radio show hosts flooded the Biden campaign from South Florida. And a jolt of excitement shot through the crowd of early vote poll workers at the Lauderdhill Mall, in the midst of Broward County’s growing Jamaican community.

“There was just this sense of energy,” state Rep. Anika Omphroy, a daughter of two Jamaican immigrants, said in describing the moment the announcement was received.

“It was all Black women out there working under the tents,” she said. “It was 98 degrees in August in South Florida, so it was too hot to cheer. But you could feel it, this sense.”

That feeling stretches beyond the Jamaican-American community and the more traditional African American community, shared by those in South Florida with roots in Haiti, the Bahamas, Trinidad and Tobago or Guyana. They comprise a growing and varied Black West Indian diaspora community, a little-discussed but increasingly influential slice of the electorate of the nation’s biggest swing state.

*While exact numbers are hard to come by, census estimates and political studies peg the diverse Black community — nicknamed the Caribbean Massive by some — at more than 2.5 million, including hundreds of thousands of Florida voters. That’s crucial in a battleground state where elections are often decided by less than a percentage point*. *Read more*

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## RabzonKhan

One of the best exchanges between crooked Trump and a brave journalist. The lying crook was stunned and speechless, just look at his embarrassed face. I loved it.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294033047143108608
Shirish Date a senior White House correspondent at huffpost asked Trump on camera “After 3 ½ years, do you regret, at all, all the lying you’ve done to the American people?”

Trump: What?

Shirish: All the lying and dishonesty you have done?

Trump: That who has done?

Shirish: You have done.

Trump: Ahhh.

After the silence, Trump doesn’t answer and moves to the next reporter.

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

Republican Voters Against Trump

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## cloud4000

Yankee-stani said:


> More reasons I am voting Trump/Pence Kamala is obviously gonna be more in line with Indian lobby and Indian interests groups



So this will be your litmus test? 

Doesn't sound like a rational decision given that both Democrats and Republicans lean towards India. Besides, US-Pak relations are like way bottom of the list on why one should vote, especially if you live in the US.

But, then again, is your prerogative.

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## RabzonKhan

A remarkably successful Democratic Convention and a great speech by Biden!

Joe Biden’s speech wins praise not only from the left but also from the Conservatives.

The "Fox News Sunday" host Chris Wallace described the speech as "enormously effective."

"Remember Donald Trump has been talking for months about Joe Biden as mentally shot, a captive from the left," Wallace said.

"And yes, Biden was reading from a teleprompter in a prepared speech, but I thought that he blew a hole — a big hole in that characterization." “The Democrats have had a good convention, now it’s the Republicans’ turn.”

Laura Ingraham, one of Trump's strongest supporters on the Fox News, said during an interview with the president's son Donald Trump Jr. that the speech "did beat expectations." but the speech was “devoid of any policy other than universal masking. But he delivered a good speech for what he was doing, it was very emotional stuff … It was very well delivered.”

The Drudge Report, the popular conservative aggregation website led its coverage of the speech with the headline "Biden Barn Burner" and linked to commentary that he "crushed expectations."

The Republican strategist Karl Rove, the architect of Bush's two election victories, said that the speech was "very good" and that he'd be worried if he were a GOP strategist working on this year's presidential campaign.

The Fox News anchor Bret Baier also praised the address, describing it as "the best" he'd seen in Biden's campaign for president. "This is what he needed to do," Baier added.

Dana Perino, a Fox News anchor who served as George W. Bush's press secretary, after the speech said Biden "just hit a home run in the bottom of the ninth."





*Watch Joe Biden's Full Speech At The 2020 DNC | NBC News*

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## RabzonKhan

cloud4000 said:


> So this will be your litmus test?
> 
> Doesn't sound like a rational decision given that both Democrats and Republicans lean towards India. Besides, US-Pak relations are like way bottom of the list on why one should vote, especially if you live in the US.
> 
> But, then again, is your prerogative.


The problem with my fellow Pakistanis, and especially those on the right, is that they are too emotional when it comes to India and almost see all Indians as enemies, ignoring the fact that Kamala is a liberal Democrat and was born in United States. They will rather vote for one of America’s most Islamophobic/Racist president ever. Who is considered one of Modi’s closest foreign ally.

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> The problem with my fellow Pakistanis, and especially those on the right, is that they are too emotional when it comes to India and almost see all Indians as enemies, ignoring the fact that Kamala is a liberal Democrat and was born in United States. They will rather vote for one of America’s most Islamophobic/Racist president ever. Who is considered one of Modi’s closest foreign ally.



Kamala Harris does not even advertise her Indian side but calls herself African-American. In fact, I didn't know she was half-Indian until much later. Still, as a liberal democrat, she will not look too fondly at the current Indian government and its rightward tendencies. Modi and Trump may be BFFs, but I'm seeing some turbulence in Indo-US relations if Biden/Harris wins. 

I would also like to add that some Indians are no different than Pakistanis on the reasons for who they vote for. Many Indians, especially Modi supporters, will back Trump simply because of Trump's unalloyed support for Modi. Never mind that Trump is anti-immigrant and racist. But then again, these Indians are more worried about Modi and India than the US. I wish these Indians to emigrate.

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## Clutch

Vote for Trump... The Failing Superpower


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298348692370599938


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## cloud4000

Political scientist professor who has correctly predicted every presidential election since 1984 says Biden will win in 2020.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/allan-lichtman-presidential-election-accurate-prediction-trump-biden/

The election will be a close one and may even lead to legal troubles a la 2000.

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## Gomig-21

cloud4000 said:


> Political scientist professor who has correctly predicted every presidential election since 1984 says Biden will win in 2020.
> 
> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/allan-lichtman-presidential-election-accurate-prediction-trump-biden/
> 
> The election will be a close one and may even lead to legal troubles a la 2000.



That's pretty wild and definitely interesting in that it's not the average poling method which he went into detail describing how that changes almost on a daily basis and why you can't go by it. But his list of 13 questions seem to narrow the results down pretty accurately which is rather fascinating. Good post.

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## cloud4000

*Trump and Republicans' August fundraising falls $154M short of Biden and Democrats*







© Getty Images

President Trump's reelection campaign and the Republican National Committee (RNC) raked in $210 million in August, raising roughly $154 million less than Joe Biden and the Democratic National Committee (DNC) did in the same period. 

The news comes roughly a week after the Biden campaign and the DNC announced they raised a record $364.5 million, with $205 million coming from online and small-dollar contributions. 
The RNC and the Trump campaign touted their $76 million haul over the course of the four-day Republican National Convention, which bested Biden and the DNC's haul of $70 million during the Democratic National Convention the week before. 

"Both campaigns are raising massive amounts of money, but have very different priorities about how to spend it," said Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien. "In addition to advertising, President Trump’s campaign has invested heavily in a muscular field operation and ground game that will turn out our voters, while the Biden campaign is waging almost exclusively an air war. We like our strategy better. The Trump campaign will have all the resources we need to spread the message of President Trump’s incredible record of achievement, on the ground and on the air, and define Joe Biden as a tool of the radical left." 
Neither campaign has released its cash on hand numbers for August. The Trump campaign led in cash-on-hand in July before Biden recruited Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) to be his running mate. 

Trump’s campaign and the RNC have spent more than $800 million on the president's reelection bid. Biden and the DNC have spent approximately $414 million through July. 

Biden leads Trump by 4 points in Wisconsin: poll
House Democrats' campaign arm raises over $22.6 million in August
Bloomberg News reported on Tuesday that Trump has considered spending up to $100 million of his own money on his reelection campaign, which would be unprecedented, and Trump later confirmed he would be willing to spend his own money if necessary. Additionally, the New York Times reported on Monday that some in the Trump campaign have expressed fears about "a cash crunch." 
Stepien on Tuesday sought to reassure Republicans, saying the campaign was "comfortable and confident in where we’re spending, how much we’re spending and how much we’ll have down the stretch."
Biden leads Trump by an average of 7.1 points, according to the Real Clear Politics polling average. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...ust-fundraising-falls-154m-short-of-biden-and

The key for Democrats is not fundraising but to turn out and vote. Clinton had a billion-dollar election machine backing her and she still lost because Democrats were too lazy to vote, thinking, wrongfully, that Clinton was going to win.

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## Gomig-21

cloud4000 said:


> *Trump and Republicans' August fundraising falls $154M short of Biden and Democrats*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © Getty Images
> 
> President Trump's reelection campaign and the Republican National Committee (RNC) raked in $210 million in August, raising roughly $154 million less than Joe Biden and the Democratic National Committee (DNC) did in the same period.
> 
> The news comes roughly a week after the Biden campaign and the DNC announced they raised a record $364.5 million, with $205 million coming from online and small-dollar contributions.
> The RNC and the Trump campaign touted their $76 million haul over the course of the four-day Republican National Convention, which bested Biden and the DNC's haul of $70 million during the Democratic National Convention the week before.
> 
> "Both campaigns are raising massive amounts of money, but have very different priorities about how to spend it," said Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien. "In addition to advertising, President Trump’s campaign has invested heavily in a muscular field operation and ground game that will turn out our voters, while the Biden campaign is waging almost exclusively an air war. We like our strategy better. The Trump campaign will have all the resources we need to spread the message of President Trump’s incredible record of achievement, on the ground and on the air, and define Joe Biden as a tool of the radical left."
> Neither campaign has released its cash on hand numbers for August. The Trump campaign led in cash-on-hand in July before Biden recruited Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) to be his running mate.
> 
> Trump’s campaign and the RNC have spent more than $800 million on the president's reelection bid. Biden and the DNC have spent approximately $414 million through July.
> 
> Biden leads Trump by 4 points in Wisconsin: poll
> House Democrats' campaign arm raises over $22.6 million in August
> Bloomberg News reported on Tuesday that Trump has considered spending up to $100 million of his own money on his reelection campaign, which would be unprecedented, and Trump later confirmed he would be willing to spend his own money if necessary. Additionally, the New York Times reported on Monday that some in the Trump campaign have expressed fears about "a cash crunch."
> Stepien on Tuesday sought to reassure Republicans, saying the campaign was "comfortable and confident in where we’re spending, how much we’re spending and how much we’ll have down the stretch."
> Biden leads Trump by an average of 7.1 points, according to the Real Clear Politics polling average.
> 
> https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...ust-fundraising-falls-154m-short-of-biden-and
> 
> The key for Democrats is not fundraising but to turn out and vote. Clinton had a billion-dollar election machine backing her and she still lost because Democrats were too lazy to vote, thinking, wrongfully, that Clinton was going to win.



It's crazy how they spend money on these campaigns. Those private jets are big bucks of course and imagine if they really had to pay every one instead of having volunteers do a lot of work. It's really unfathomable where the hell all that money goes!??! 

And this new book by Bob Woodward has all the recordings to go with all the bombshells in that thing, oof. This election cannot come soon enough and the result we want to see can't come soon enough either.
I think Florida is gonna mess things up AGAIN like it did before and this thing could get ugly. The two are tied in FA ATM at 48% each and you think to yourself how the frig is that possible with all that has happened? Then you realize oh yeah, it's Florida LOL! Gaddam fish-catching alligator wrestling hillbilly hacks.

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## cloud4000

Gomig-21 said:


> It's crazy how they spend money on these campaigns. Those private jets are big bucks of course and imagine if they really had to pay every one instead of having volunteers do a lot of work. It's really unfathomable where the hell all that money goes!??!



I'm sure a lot of money goes into all the infrastructure they need, especially in battleground states. Plus, there are consultants to pay. But the bulk of the money goes to buy ads, mostly television and online. 



Gomig-21 said:


> And this new book by Bob Woodward has all the recordings to go with all the bombshells in that thing, oof. This election cannot come soon enough and the result we want to see can't come soon enough either.
> I think Florida is gonna mess things up AGAIN like it did before and this thing could get ugly. The two are tied in FA ATM at 48% each and you think to yourself how the frig is that possible with all that has happened? Then you realize oh yeah, it's Florida LOL! Gaddam fish-catching alligator wrestling hillbilly hacks.



Don't be surprised if legal problems arise post-election. COVID and mail-in ballots will make a mess of things. 
In addition, each state has its own way of holding elections. I've long argued for all federal elections, at least, be run by the federal government, thought the Federal Election Commission. But this will require a constitutional amendment.

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

cloud4000 said:


> Kamala Harris does not even advertise her Indian side but calls herself African-American. In fact, I didn't know she was half-Indian until much later. Still, as a liberal democrat, she will not look too fondly at the current Indian government and its rightward tendencies. Modi and Trump may be BFFs, but I'm seeing some turbulence in Indo-US relations if Biden/Harris wins.
> 
> I would also like to add that some Indians are no different than Pakistanis on the reasons for who they vote for. Many Indians, especially Modi supporters, will back Trump simply because of Trump's unalloyed support for Modi. Never mind that Trump is anti-immigrant and racist. But then again, these Indians are more worried about Modi and India than the US. I wish these Indians to emigrate.


Absolutely right. Democrats and Modi government already are having problems. Joe Biden in his manifesto “Agenda for Muslims” has stated that he “understands the pain Muslim-Americans feel toward what’s happening in Muslim majority countries and countries with significant Muslim populations.” Beside harshly criticizing China’s “detention of over a million Uyghur Muslims”.

“In Kashmir, the Indian government should take all necessary steps to restore rights for all people of Kashmir. Restriction on dissent, such as preventing peaceful protests or shutting or slowing down the Internet, weaken democracy. Joe Biden has been disappointed by the measure that the government of India has taken with the implementation and aftermath of the National Register of Citizen in Assam and the passage of the Citizenship Amendment act into law. These measures are inconsistent with the country’s long tradition of secularism and with sustaining a multi-ethnic and multi-religious democracy”.

Democratic Congresswoman Jayapal, the first Indian American woman to be elected to the House of Representatives, few months ago had introduced a resolution in the House, on Kashmir. The Modi government was so upset that the visiting Minister of India refused to meet her, in protest, many other Democrats criticized him and refuse to meet him, Kamala Harris was one of them, she also issued a strongly worded statement in support of congresswoman Jayapal, in which she criticized Indian Minister’s behavior.

On the other hand, Trump who was in India in February when Hindu-Muslim riots were taking place in parts of Indian capital Delhi, praised Modi for being a very religious man whom he admired and declined to discuss Citizenship Law, (which clearly discriminates against Muslims) saying it was really up to India to handle. Clearly, a green light to Modi to keep up with his extremist policies.

No wonder, Modi and his followers strongly support Trump, during his Howdy Modi rally in the US, Modi went out of his way to endorse Trump for his second term. Throughout his speech Modi did not talk much about US-Indian relation, but spoke more about his personal relationship with Trump, and went on to say “Abki Baar Trump Sarker”. Modi’s undiplomatic language just shows how close his relationship is with Trump. And at the same rally, Trump said; “Today, we honor all of the brave American and Indian military service members who work together to safeguard our freedom. We stand proudly in defense of liberty and we are committed to protecting innocent civilians from the threat of radical Islamic terrorism”. This should give us a good clue why both Islamophobic morons are so close.

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

*Republican Voters Against Trump* 






*Young Mother of Two on Why Trump Is Dangerous*

 "I need to be able to look at my kids in five years, in 10 years, in 15 years, and look them in the eye and tell them that I did something, that I didn't stay silent...It's up to all of us to do something and to stand up for what is right, and that means standing against Donald Trump and voting him out in November."







*John voted for Trump in 2016 to prevent a Clinton presidency. Now, he's against another Trump term.*

"I can live with a President Joe Biden in a way that I couldn't at the time, live with Hillary Clinton as president."

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## RabzonKhan



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## LeGenD

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 672303


One may argue that NAFTA was oversold to the masses and stole American jobs in the long term. Trump administration attempted to fix this problem by revisiting NAFTA.

American economic activity was doing very well under Trump Presidency with unemployment reaching a record low until COVID-19 outbreak. All manner of statistics indicate as much.

This meme is misleading TBH.


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## cloud4000

LeGenD said:


> One may argue that NAFTA was oversold to the masses and stole American jobs in the long term. Trump administration attempted to fix this problem by revisiting NAFTA.
> 
> American economic activity was doing very well under Trump Presidency with unemployment reaching a record low until COVID-19 outbreak. All manner of statistics indicate as much.
> 
> This meme is misleading TBH.



One can make the argument that the US economy is doing well despite what Trump is doing or not doing. I think too much importance is given to POTUS and its effects on the economy. There are factors, including the Federal Reserve bank, Congress, international factors, etc. 

As for the revisiting of NAFTA and the "stealing" of jobs...it is just a canard used to scare people. How any jobs has Trump brought back to US since his election? Very few. For a man who has no experience in manufacturing, his fantasy of some country stealing American jobs is laughable when it's all about economics. Trump likes to blame China for stealing jobs, like it's the only country doing so. The fact of the matter is that if it wasn't China, it could be Vietnam, India, Pakistan, or elsewhere. Why would a company pay someone $20/hr when someone is willing to do it for $2/hr? And most jobs aren't going overseas but are lost to advances in technology. 

It would better if energy, time, and resources are spent on retraining the workforce for opportunities that currently exist. US is facing a severe shortage in skilled workers, and I'm not talking about jobs requiring a college degree.

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## cloud4000

The latest poll numbers via Real Clear Politics:







Source: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

Biden has a slight lead in all polls. Taking into account margins for error put some of the polls at even. After the last election, I doubt the veracity of any polls, so take it with a grain of salt. Things could change with the first debate tomorrow.

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## RabzonKhan

*First 2020 Presidential Debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Live now.*

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## Gomig-21

It's off to a hot start already! lol! That orange baboon is trying to talk over everyone including Chris Wallace! What a dick!

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## KurtisBrian

Gomig-21 said:


> It's off to a hot start already! lol! That orange baboon is trying to talk over everyone including Chris Wallace! What a dick!



The National Center for Health Statistics estimates that, for 2015–2016 in the U.S., 
39.8% of adults aged 20 and over were obese (including 7.6% with severe obesity) and that another *31.8%* were overweight. (wikipedia)

70+% of Americans are obese or overweight and thus the same as Drumpf but not Biden. 

Antifa-tty doesn't seem to like Drumpf. Probably don't like any fatty.

hmm look at Egypt.... The study found that *35 percent* of Egyptian adults (around 19 million Egyptians) suffer from obesity - the highest rate in the world. (me...???? seems US is worse) The results also revealed that over *10 percent* of children (3.6 million) are overweight. "Obesity is a tremendous threat to health in Egypt. (Egyptianstreets.com)

Guess lots of Egyptians are like Drumpf.


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> *First 2020 Presidential Debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Live now.*



lol, Chris Wallace has his work cut out for him tonight with that orange monkey in full swing like an out of control clown who's really taken the position of the president of the United State and put it into the gutter.

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## KAL-EL

We need good forest management!!

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## Gomig-21

Probably the worst ever debate thanks to that lowlife piece of garbage. It's phenomenal that people actually support that disgraceful lowlife and he truly is an embarrassment to this great country and the presidency of the United States. What a shame but the only positive that came out of it was that he self destructed and gave the debate to Biden because of his absolutely disgraceful behavior.

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## KAL-EL

At times, the debate was a giant cluster ****

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## SQ8

It was like watching the odd couple -


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## Dalit

Boy oh boy. Trump walked over senile Biden. The Democrats are done. Trump is sharper. Biden has difficulty constructing a sentence.


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## Menthol

RabzonKhan said:


> *First 2020 Presidential Debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Live now.*



I feel like USA is falling.

It's not because of other countries, but inside.


Covid-19, H1N1, crumbling infrastructure...

They have the money, a lot of it... 

As well as smart people educated from the world's best universities...

The most democratic country in the world...

Where is wrong??? What is the mistake???


USA is already bankrupt.

Society itself is already hit the saturation point.

USA reached the point when they have been locked by what they have been built in the past.


The fast and easy solution is blaming others like China for example.

And you will win the presidential election.

Lol


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## PakFactor

This debate was greatly entertaining Lol
Still voting for this clown


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## denel

Gomig-21 said:


> lol, Chris Wallace has his work cut out for him tonight with that orange monkey in full swing like an out of control clown who's really taken the position of the president of the United State and put it into the gutter.


a swinging orangeuntang. An imbecile at large. Nothing but filth comes out of his mouth.

I watched a bit of this comedy circus. The man has no consience and now in front of entire world admitted racist neonazi.

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## cloud4000

Menthol said:


> I feel like USA is falling.
> 
> It's not because of other countries, but inside.
> 
> 
> Covid-19, H1N1, crumbling infrastructure...
> 
> They have the money, a lot of it...
> 
> As well as smart people educated from the world's best universities...
> 
> The most democratic country in the world...
> 
> Where is wrong??? What is the mistake???
> 
> 
> USA is already bankrupt.
> 
> Society itself is already hit the saturation point.
> 
> USA reached the point when they have been locked by what they have been built in the past.
> 
> 
> The fast and easy solution is blaming others like China for example.
> 
> And you will win the presidential election.
> 
> Lol


 
More  about the demise of US/democracy/US dollar. Like I said many times before, the US has faced much worse than what it's currently going through, and I'm not just talking about the current POTUS.

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

Most of these polling averages are from polls conducted prior to the first presidential debate on Tuesday.

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

Harry S. Truman was the 33rd president of the United States from 1945 to 1953.







*Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Google employees have reportedly shelled out $4.8 million to support Joe Biden since 2019 — and $240,000 for President Trump*


The report shows that employees at Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Google's parent company Alphabet, Microsoft, and Oracle have collectively poured $4,787,752 into the Biden campaign since 2019 while donating $239,527 to Trump.

The data is from the Federal Election Commission, an agency that requires people who donate $200 or more to a presidential campaign to include who they work for. As the outlet notes, the data only reflects the donations of fewer than 5,300 people of the 1.4 million who work at the six tech firms collectively. It doesn't include people who made donations smaller than $200. *Read More*

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## Gomig-21

Stephen Miller just tested positive for COVID-19 adding to the mess that White House is in right now. Those people never took it seriously and walked around as if it could never happen to them and now, with less than 30 days to the election they're getting hit one by one. These are the morons leading the greatest country in the world and just makes you shake your head like how the hell did this crowd of incompetence get into this highest seat?!?!?! Mind boggling.

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## -=virus=-

Trump beating covid is actually good optics for him. 

The libs are going to be in for an even ruder shock this time around as he might win this one in a Reganesque landslide.

Miller, McEnany, Hope Hicks etc beating covid easily will put the American people at ease too, the virus is really not that dangerous, spl to young healthy people. 

Biden either has dementia, or is beginning to suffer from the early onset of Alzheimer's.

Kamala Harris is such a faker cackling witch, nothing likeable about her.

Trump will win easy.


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## Gomig-21

Great VP debate, compared to the last disaster thanks to the ignorant orange monkey. 

Give it to Kamala Harris without a doubt. She tore it up and took Pence on and clearly had the much better night. Can't make too much of an argument about it the way this administration has handled almost every single thing, especially the pandemic and the racism. Good job by her tonight.

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## Philosopher

I predict the general perception will be that Kamala won however she was far too lenient on Pence. Perhaps this was their strategy given they're so far ahead on the polls and she was "playing it safe" but she was far from prosecuting him the way she should have. Fortunately for democrats and most of humanity, vice president debates don't tend to effect election outcomes by much so a slam dunk by her tonight was not essential.

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> Stephen Miller just tested positive for COVID-19 adding to the mess that White House is in right now. Those people never took it seriously and walked around as if it could never happen to them and now, with less than 30 days to the election they're getting hit one by one. These are the morons leading the greatest country in the world and just makes you shake your head like how the hell did this crowd of incompetence get into this highest seat?!?!?! Mind boggling.


That damn guy deserves it he’s such a scumbag. I was reading an interesting article when Trump and 14 other White House guests and staffers were diagnosed with covid-19 last Friday that was more than the number of newly reported cases in Belgium, Singapore, Taiwan, Sweden, New Zealand or Thailand, according to the World Health Organization. Isn’t that amazing and shameful that White House had more sick than those countries.


Gomig-21 said:


> Great VP debate, compared to the last disaster thanks to the ignorant orange monkey.
> 
> Give it to Kamala Harris without a doubt. She tore it up and took Pence on and clearly had the much better night. Can't make too much of an argument about it the way this administration has handled almost every single thing, especially the pandemic and the racism. Good job by her tonight.


As expected, Kamala did a good job, being a former prosecutor, she could have destroyed Pence, but she handled him with kids gloves and I think that was a smart strategy.


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## RabzonKhan

-=virus=- said:


> Trump beating covid is actually good optics for him.
> 
> The libs are going to be in for an even ruder shock this time around as he might win this one in a Reganesque landslide.
> 
> Miller, McEnany, Hope Hicks etc beating covid easily will put the American people at ease too, the virus is really not that dangerous, spl to young healthy people.
> 
> Biden either has dementia, or is beginning to suffer from the early onset of Alzheimer's.
> 
> Kamala Harris is such a faker cackling witch, nothing likeable about her.
> 
> *Trump will win easy.*


Lol, even Trumps all-time favorite Rasmussen polls shows that he is in deep shithole. Enjoy!

*Rasmussen Reports, Often Cited by Trump, Shows Biden With 12-Point Lead Following First Debate*

Conservative polling firm Rasmussen Reports—which President Donald Trump has often cited in the past—now shows Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden ahead by double digits less than a month before the election. 

The new national poll, which was conducted by Rasmussen following the first presidential debate last week, shows Biden with a lead of 12 percentage points—backed by 52 percent of likely voters compared with just 40 percent who support Trump. An additional 4 percent said they support a different candidate, while another 4 percent said they remain undecided. 

Biden, who served as vice president under former President Barack Obama, has cleared the 50 percent threshold in Rasmussen's polling for two weeks in a row now. *Read more*


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> That damn guy deserves it he’s such a scumbag. I was reading an interesting article when Trump and 14 other White House guests and staffers were diagnosed with covid-19 last Friday that was more than the number of newly reported cases in Belgium, Singapore, Taiwan, Sweden, New Zealand or Thailand, according to the World Health Organization. Isn’t that amazing and shameful that White House had more sick than those countries.



That's crazy. And I don't think we've heard the end of people getting infected in that crap house. I think it's going to get worst as more people get ill from not only that super-spreader announcement of RBG's replacement, but within the WH itself and how they must be dismissing any type of social distancing and wearing masks because somehow they think they're above it all and this type of thing only happens to actors and poor people?! Or something like that who the hell knows how that demented crowd thinks.



RabzonKhan said:


> As expected, Kamala did a good job, being a former prosecutor, she could have destroyed Pence, but she handled him with kids gloves and I think that was a smart strategy.



She was great and handled it very well. She avoided any "angry black woman" moments which was huge despite Pence knowing how to push the right buttons to provoke her by lecturing her about her time as a SF prosecutor and CA AG, but she replied back in kind but didn't take the bait.

And then the crap that the orangutan came out with today! Did you hear that despicable pile of trash call her a "monster" and a "communist"? This is how far down the barrel of shit this administration is. Honestly, it's not partisan anymore for me and never was really to be perfectly honest with you, Rabzon, since I consider myself a centrist and honestly a Biden/Harris administration is bad for my home country but it's a necessity for this country of mine! That despicable load of disgusting filth that runs the country ATM needs to be removed at any cost. Oh, and we saw today with the Gov of Michigan how "Stand down" and "Stand by" can become even worst when this happened before he said that unconscionable crap! This is something that I fear will become much worst if the Biden ticket wins this elections. These are actually scary but critical moments in the history of this country, but especially our times.

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## cloud4000

Gomig-21 said:


> Stephen Miller just tested positive for COVID-19 adding to the mess that White House is in right now. Those people never took it seriously and walked around as if it could never happen to them and now, with less than 30 days to the election they're getting hit one by one. These are the morons leading the greatest country in the world and just makes you shake your head like how the hell did this crowd of incompetence get into this highest seat?!?!?! Mind boggling.



At this point, is anything emanating from the Trump White House still mind-boggling, or par for the course? Trump operates impulsively, as does this White House. That POTUS got COVID-19 is not a good look for him, the government, or the US. In fact, Trump's handling of COVID-19 has been so poor, it may cost him the election. Trumping get COVID-19 is just the cherry on top. 



Gomig-21 said:


> Great VP debate, compared to the last disaster thanks to the ignorant orange monkey.
> 
> Give it to Kamala Harris without a doubt. She tore it up and took Pence on and clearly had the much better night. Can't make too much of an argument about it the way this administration has handled almost every single thing, especially the pandemic and the racism. Good job by her tonight.



I'm glad future presidential debates have been canceled. What a train wreck! No way it was going to get better in future debates. I've seen better debates at student council elections.

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## Gomig-21

cloud4000 said:


> At this point, is anything emanating from the Trump White House still mind-boggling, or par for the course? Trump operates impulsively, as does this White House. That POTUS got COVID-19 is not a good look for him, the government, or the US. In fact, Trump's handling of COVID-19 has been so poor, it may cost him the election. Trumping get COVID-19 is just the cherry on top.
> 
> I'm glad future presidential debates have been canceled. What a train wreck! No way it was going to get better in future debates. I've seen better debates at student council elections.



Totally agree on both points. The scary part is the way he's behaving because of the steroids he's on. You can EASILY tell how they're making him crazier than he normally is simply by the comments he made about Kamal Harris on Fox the morning after her and Pence's debate, which ironically was conducted the way debates are meant to be. When he went off and called her a "monster" and a "communist" it was well beyond the usual insults and name-calling that he does like calling Nancy Pelosi "Crazy Nancy" or Joe Biden "Sleepy Joe" etc. These are angry and filthy insults that are brought about from the juice they're plugging him up with. I've been around some of that stuff and let me tell you, it's not pretty watching it get a grip on someone who's already out of control and angry to begin with.

And then the entire saga with the Michigan governor. Honestly, I'm super surprised that the local PDF anti-US haters haven't jumped all over that bandwagon! Since it's about as close to "civil war" as any situation can get (which incidentally was exactly what this filthy group was intending on creating) that no one here picked up on it and opened a thread that Civil War was starting in the US! lol. But levity aside, that is some scary crazy stuff that these people not only exist, but that they were willing to pull such a crazy and violent scheme off, all in the name of the divisive and racist rhetoric that this orangutan is spewing on a regular basis!!! It is just dumbfounding! I'm VERY impressed at the FBI for being able to thwart this crazy *** plot! This is something you see in Holywood for crying out loud. Saving this country through this election can't come soon enough and God help us should that despicable excuse of a human being win a 2nd term. This nightmare needs to end.

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## RabzonKhan

*“Battle for the Soul of the Nation”- Joe Biden Speech in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania*

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

*Former Vice President Joe Biden's polling better than any challenger since 1936*
*Analysis by Harry Enten

*Former Vice President Joe Biden is dominating President Donald Trump in the latest polls. No, the election is not over yet, and Trump still has a non-negligible chance of winning.

But a look through history reveals that Biden is in a better position at this point than any challenger since 1936, when the first scientific polls were taken in a presidential race. 

The ABC News/Washington Post poll released on Sunday was the latest poll to indicate Biden's strength. Biden led Trump by a 55% to 43% margin among likely voters. The poll was the third high quality national poll published this week that had Biden up by at least 10 points and above 50%. The other two being from CNN/SSRS and Fox News.

Indeed, the average of polls has Biden at around 52% or 53% and up by somewhere between 10 and 11 points. This is an unprecedented position for a challenger with a mere 23 days to go until Election Day.

In the 21 previous presidential elections since 1936, there have only been five challengers who led at this time. Of those five, only one (Bill Clinton in 1992) was ahead by more than 5 points. None of those five were earning more than 48% of the vote in the polls.

In other words, Biden is the first challenger to be above 50% at this late juncture in the campaign. *Read more*

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## A1Kaid

Gomig-21 said:


> Great VP debate, compared to the last disaster thanks to the ignorant orange monkey.
> 
> Give it to Kamala Harris without a doubt. She tore it up and took Pence on and clearly had the much better night. Can't make too much of an argument about it the way this administration has handled almost every single thing, especially the pandemic and the racism. Good job by her tonight.



I think Mike Pence clearly did better. He even attacked her record as a DA which she could not answer back to. He outclassed her on many topics including trade, fracking (important in PA/Ohio), economy, and set the record straight on coronavirus.

Trump will likely win in 2020, GOP voter registration has been surging in key swing states and that could very well help him win the electoral college again.

PA is likely the state that will determine the next President. Voter registration trends favor Republicans in critical counties that were lost by Hillary. If Biden loses in PA it is likely over for him.

Don't believe the bs polls again, look at actual voter registration data which favors the GOP in 6 swing states.





__





Trump campaign beating Democrats at voter registration in key states


The Republicans have cut the Democratic Party’s voter registration edge in key states, a development President Trump’s campaign views as a hidden advantage as polls show rival Joe Biden growing his lead.




www.google.com













Pennsylvania registers more Republican voters with election weeks away


President Trump narrowly defeated Hillary Clinton in the key swing state in 2016.




www.foxnews.com


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## Gomig-21

A1Kaid said:


> I think Mike Pence clearly did better. He even attacked her record as a DA which she could not answer back to. He outclassed her on many topics including trade, fracking (important in PA/Ohio), economy, and set the record straight on coronavirus.



You must've been watching a completely different debate than everyone else. She set him straight on the fracking and that Biden never was against it an she destroyed him on the economy pointing out all the credit Pence and the buffoon are touting about was because they inherited what Obama and Joe Biden gave them and reveled in that success. That was one of the best moments in the debate and let's not go down the Coronavirus road. That's a losing record even if Big Bird was arguing against Pence!



A1Kaid said:


> Trump will likely win in 2020, GOP voter registration has been surging in key swing states and that could very well help him win the electoral college again.



Anything is possible. I just wouldn't be so sure like that, considering the way things are going.



A1Kaid said:


> PA is likely the state that will determine the next President. Voter registration trends favor Republicans in critical counties that were lost by Hillary. If Biden loses in PA it is likely over for him.



I think Iowa is more important since no president has ever won the election without winning Iowa or is it Ohio? One of those I forget, but we shall see.



A1Kaid said:


> Don't believe the bs polls again, look at actual voter registration data which favors the GOP in 6 swing states.



The polls actually were exactly on spot last election because by the time Comey came out with all the BS, Hillary's numbers started plummeting that by election day, she was only leading by 2 points if I'm not mistaken. So those numbers are actually good to go by only you need to account for the margin of error.

The donkey is gonna need a lot more than just new Republican voter registration in swing states because there are still more people registered as Democrats than Republicans in the critical battleground states of Florida, North Carolina and Pennsylvania. 

And in North Carolina, actually, Democrats have outpaced Republicans by about 63,000 in new voters registration and the interesting thing happening this election is that many of the new voters who are registering for the first time because of their age, are doing so as non-partisan because it's much cooler and they don't want the affiliation BUT, what they do is look at everything that is happening in Washington and in their respective states etc. and for the most part, it's not tough to see the mess and the chaos and the lack of acting on COVID and so that demographic tends to end up voting overwhelmingly democrat. 

_"The truth of the matter is it's sort of in vogue to be unaffiliated. They look at what's going on in Washington and partisan gridlock and breakdown, and there's just not a real reason to register as an affiliated if you're coming out of college and coming out of high school, it's just not really the cool thing to do," said Jackson. "But the truth is, when they go to the ballot box, we see them overwhelmingly choosing sides for Democrats." _

If you read the rest of the article, it will show you more gains by Democrats overall but certainly some states like Arizona still showing Republican strength in numbers and it'll come down to some of the other states like Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Texas.









Republicans narrow voter registration gap in swing states


There are many forces at play: Republicans are making strides with registered voters, and the two-party system is losing its appeal, especially with young people.




www.cbsnews.com

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 678522
> 
> 
> 
> *Former Vice President Joe Biden's polling better than any challenger since 1936*
> *Analysis by Harry Enten*
> 
> Former Vice President Joe Biden is dominating President Donald Trump in the latest polls. No, the election is not over yet, and Trump still has a non-negligible chance of winning.
> 
> But a look through history reveals that Biden is in a better position at this point than any challenger since 1936, when the first scientific polls were taken in a presidential race.
> 
> The ABC News/Washington Post poll released on Sunday was the latest poll to indicate Biden's strength. Biden led Trump by a 55% to 43% margin among likely voters. The poll was the third high quality national poll published this week that had Biden up by at least 10 points and above 50%. The other two being from CNN/SSRS and Fox News.
> 
> Indeed, the average of polls has Biden at around 52% or 53% and up by somewhere between 10 and 11 points. This is an unprecedented position for a challenger with a mere 23 days to go until Election Day.
> 
> In the 21 previous presidential elections since 1936, there have only been five challengers who led at this time. Of those five, only one (Bill Clinton in 1992) was ahead by more than 5 points. None of those five were earning more than 48% of the vote in the polls.
> 
> In other words, Biden is the first challenger to be above 50% at this late juncture in the campaign. *Read more*


 .
I've deeply suspicious of polls since 2016. Regardless of what the polls say or don't say, make sure you vote. No excuses. You can sacrifice a day every four years to vote. 

That being said, I think voting day should be a national holiday.

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## YeBeWarned

I saw in a news that white Supremacists try to Kidnap and execute the Governor of Michigan ,they also have plans to kill cops to start civil war ?

@RabzonKhan @Hamartia Antidote is that true ?

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## A1Kaid

Gomig-21 said:


> You must've been watching a completely different debate than everyone else. She set him straight on the fracking and that Biden never was against it an she destroyed him on the economy pointing out all the credit Pence and the buffoon are touting about was because they inherited what Obama and Joe Biden gave them and reveled in that success. That was one of the best moments in the debate and let's not go down the Coronavirus road. That's a losing record even if Big Bird was arguing against Pence!
> 
> 
> 
> Anything is possible. I just wouldn't be so sure like that, considering the way things are going.
> 
> 
> 
> I think Iowa is more important since no president has ever won the election without winning Iowa or is it Ohio? One of those I forget, but we shall see.
> 
> 
> 
> The polls actually were exactly on spot last election because by the time Comey came out with all the BS, Hillary's numbers started plummeting that by election day, she was only leading by 2 points if I'm not mistaken. So those numbers are actually good to go by only you need to account for the margin of error.
> 
> The donkey is gonna need a lot more than just new Republican voter registration in swing states because there are still more people registered as Democrats than Republicans in the critical battleground states of Florida, North Carolina and Pennsylvania.
> 
> And in North Carolina, actually, Democrats have outpaced Republicans by about 63,000 in new voters registration and the interesting thing happening this election is that many of the new voters who are registering for the first time because of their age, are doing so as non-partisan because it's much cooler and they don't want the affiliation BUT, what they do is look at everything that is happening in Washington and in their respective states etc. and for the most part, it's not tough to see the mess and the chaos and the lack of acting on COVID and so that demographic tends to end up voting overwhelmingly democrat.
> 
> _"The truth of the matter is it's sort of in vogue to be unaffiliated. They look at what's going on in Washington and partisan gridlock and breakdown, and there's just not a real reason to register as an affiliated if you're coming out of college and coming out of high school, it's just not really the cool thing to do," said Jackson. "But the truth is, when they go to the ballot box, we see them overwhelmingly choosing sides for Democrats." _
> 
> If you read the rest of the article, it will show you more gains by Democrats overall but certainly some states like Arizona still showing Republican strength in numbers and it'll come down to some of the other states like Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Texas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Republicans narrow voter registration gap in swing states
> 
> 
> There are many forces at play: Republicans are making strides with registered voters, and the two-party system is losing its appeal, especially with young people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cbsnews.com







[/QUOTE]

Biden on fracking











> The donkey is gonna need a lot more than just new Republican voter registration in swing states because there are still more people registered as Democrats than Republicans in the critical battleground states of Florida, North Carolina and Pennsylvania.



Many of those "registered Democrats" actually vote Republican, southwest PA has a lot of registered Democrats but it votes solid red, same is true for western parts of NC, and northern parts of Florida. 




> If you read the rest of the article, it will show you more gains by Democrats overall but certainly some states like Arizona still showing Republican strength in numbers and it'll come down to some of the other states like Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Texas.



If you actually read the reports the GOP is beating the Democrats in new voter registration in PA, Wisconsin, Michigan, and NC. It is a fact that PA, Wisconsin, MI, and NC are all redder than they were in 2016 and less blue. Again there are many "registered Democrats" that actually vote Republican because they are socially conservative.









2020 Daily Trail Markers: Republicans are narrowing voter registration gaps in swing states


There are still more people registered as Democrats than Republicans in the battleground states of Florida, North Carolina and Pennsylvania.




www.cbsnews.com





The fact the GOP is "narrowing" the gap is further proof these states are less blue than they were in 2016. Many Democrats have left the party and now registered as Republicans.

NC Trending red: https://www.smokymountainnews.com/a...nd-in-party-registration-could-sink-democrats 

Swing states trending red: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-campaign-voter-registration-gains-key-battleground-states 





Gomig-21 said:


> *You must've been watching a completely different debate than everyone else.* She set him straight on the fracking and that Biden never was against it an she destroyed him on the economy pointing out all the credit Pence and the buffoon are touting about was because they inherited what Obama and Joe Biden gave them and reveled in that success. That was one of the best moments in the debate and let's not go down the Coronavirus road. That's a losing record even if Big Bird was arguing against Pence!



You don't speak for "everyone else", you're the same person who thought Hillary was going to win and Hillary won in the debates. You don't even know how to analyze a debate. Mike Pence dismantled Kamala she had nothing to stand on.

Even international correspondents have weighed in on that debate and are more neutral observers.


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## cloud4000

YeBeWarned said:


> I saw in a news that white Supremacists try to Kidnap and execute the Governor of Michigan ,they also have plans to kill cops to start civil war ?
> 
> @RabzonKhan @Hamartia Antidote is that true ?



That's what the governor of Michigan is claiming. Don't know if it's true or a gross exaggeration made for political purposes -- she is a Democrat, after all. 

Nevertheless, if Trump loses the election, I would not be surprised if there was an uptick of violence by such groups, especially if the election is close. Whites are losing demographically and economically to other groups, and such dislocations always cause social upheavals. 

The new administration will reallocate resources to fight these new forces, meaning that the war on terrorism will go from beyond US borders to within them.


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## YeBeWarned

cloud4000 said:


> That's what the governor of Michigan is claiming. Don't know if it's true or a gross exaggeration made for political purposes -- she is a Democrat, after all.



so you are saying FBI fake the whole raid and arresting 13 members who's pictures were given to Media ?

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## KAL-EL

YeBeWarned said:


> so you are saying FBI fake the whole raid and arresting 13 members who's pictures were given to Media ?



I don’t care what political party she belongs to. Some of those militia men are nuts

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## YeBeWarned

KAL-EL said:


> I don’t care what political party she belongs to. Some of those militia men are nuts



they are scary bro, they are armed and wiling to use their guns , I mean i would run if i see them in a protest or walmart or any store haha
but kidnaping the Governor and plot to kill police its just nuts , and for what ? to start a Civil war ? like its a fcuking COD game

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## RabzonKhan

*More people watched Biden on ABC than Trump on NBC, MSNBC and CNBC*


Joe Biden's town hall on ABC averaged 14.1 million viewers on Thursday night, easily surpassing the Nielsen ratings for President Trump's town hall on NBC.
That alone was a result virtually no one in the TV business expected. And that's not even the most surprising part.

The Trump town hall was simulcast by two of NBC's cable channels, MSNBC and CNBC, but even when those channels are included in the total, Biden -- on only one network -- still prevailed.

*The Trump town hall averaged 10.9 million viewers on the NBC broadcast network. On MSNBC, Trump reached 1.8 million viewers, and on CNBC, about 720,000 viewers. So Trump's gross audience across the three channels was 13.5 million, still fewer than Biden's audience on ABC alone.*

Staffers at ABC News privately admitted to their surprise about the ratings victory. And Biden allies wondered if Trump would react angrily.

*In the run-up to Thursday night, the Trump campaign embraced the popular ratings narrative and predicted that Trump would outrate Biden. Trump campaign senior adviser Jason Miller said "we're gonna have a much bigger audience than Joe."

After Thursday night's Nielsen data showed the opposite, Biden campaign national press secretary TJ Ducklo tweeted, "Turns out more people last night were interested in watching a leader with a clear plan to get this pandemic under control and Americans back to work, than the same combative, chaotic liar whose incompetence got us into this mess — regardless of how many channels he was on." **Read more*


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## RabzonKhan

cloud4000 said:


> .
> I've deeply suspicious of polls since 2016. Regardless of what the polls say or don't say, make sure you vote. No excuses. You can sacrifice a day every four years to vote.
> 
> That being said, I think voting day should be a national holiday.


I couldn’t agree more, I don’t mix polls with voting. I consider voting a civic duty and my voting record is almost 100%, yes, I’m a voting freak. Unlike the Republican run states where they do everything to suppress voting, especially minority votes. Fortunately, I live in the great State of Washington where it is convenient and easier to vote. And I do not have to take a day off. Our state conducts elections by mail, voter receive a ballot at their designated mailing addresses normally two weeks before the election, one can return ballot by official drop box, by mail or in person.

I agree, Voting day should be a national holiday, Democrats House did pass a resolution to make voting day a national holiday but the Republican controlled Senate rejected it.


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## RabzonKhan

YeBeWarned said:


> I saw in a news that white Supremacists try to Kidnap and execute the Governor of Michigan ,they also have plans to kill cops to start civil war ?
> 
> @RabzonKhan @Hamartia Antidote is that true ?


That is correct, according to the FBI, there was a “plot by extremist groups (racist terrorists) to kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer also involved a “plan to target and kill police.”

The sin of the Gov. Gretchen was that she believes in science and was following CDC (a federal agency) guidelines, on the other hand, the terrorist who wanted to kidnap and kill her believe in the Dark Ages.

Unfortunately, we have a lawless corrupt president who encourages and supports racist terrorists.

The tweet says it all:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1251169217531056130
But despite of all the BS going on, there will not be any civil war, racist terrorists do not have the numbers.

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

*Real Clear Politics National Average 2020 VS 2016

National Polls: Trump vs. Biden
RCP POLL AVERAGE 17 Days To Election*
*(D) **Biden +8.9*


*National Polls: Trump vs. Clinton*
*RCP POLL AVERAGE **17 Days To Election*
*(D) **Clinton +5.3*

*Source*

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## W.11

Things will only aggravate for USA, as we say, when the dog is dying vultures (Russia, china) start to circulate while the puppy (India, israel) starts to mourn.

regards

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## RabzonKhan

Here is one of the reason Trump is losing so badly.

In 2016 Trump enjoyed a 9-point lead over Hillary among voters 65+, they were one of Trump’s best demographics. That advantage has long gone, and the reason is his mishandling of the coronavirus, majority of seniors listed the coronavirus outbreak and how Trump handled it as an important factor. Voters 65+ consistently turn out to vote at higher level than other age groups.

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> Here is one of the reason Trump is losing so badly.
> 
> In 2016 Trump enjoyed a 9-point lead over Hillary among voters 65+, they were one of Trump’s best demographics. That advantage has long gone, and the reason is his mishandling of the coronavirus, majority of seniors listed the coronavirus outbreak and how Trump handled it as an important factor. Voters 65+ consistently turn out to vote at higher level than other age groups.
> 
> View attachment 680379



Interesting how the big the gap is between Biden and Trump. One wonders what the main cause:
is it the man that people dislike or his policies? I think it's mostly the former.

Trump is an exasperating character for friend and foe alike. Even much of his own party despise him but only support because they have no choice. Whether it's inane, incessant tweeting, his impulsive statements, or just his boorish behavior, the man is exhausting.

I think the country is suffering from Trump fatigue and want someone a little more boing.
One thing that sucks about living in a blue state is that Massachusetts is a nonfactor in the presidential election. Democrats don't campaign here because they know they will win and Republicans don't care here because they know they won't.

Much of the campaigning involves "battleground" states like Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, etc. I've always thought the problem has to do with the electoral college, which discounts the votes of smaller states for big ones.

I think it should be abolished, personally, but I haven't thought about all the pros and cons. But it is something one should consider.

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## RabzonKhan




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## -=virus=-

Hidin' Biden "calls a lid" on all campaigning till after debate.









Biden calls lid on campaign events until after debate with Trump


Back into the basement he goes. Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden is back at his Wilmington, Del., home and will not return to the campaign trail until after his face-off with President Tru…




nypost.com





sleepy creepy Joe the dementia addled walking corpse who is probably suffering from the early onset of Alzheimer's or Parkinson's disease goes into hiding again. 

Hunter Biden with a crack pipe:


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## RabzonKhan

*The USA TODAY average of averages is based on the polling averages calculated by RealClearPolitics and FiveThirtyEight. This week, we added Iowa to the list of swing states we are monitoring between now and the Nov. 3 election. * 

*National average *

USA TODAY average of averages: Biden 51.9%, Trump 42.1% (*Biden +9.8*)

Last week: Biden 52.1%, Trump 42.0% (Biden +10.1)

Net change: Trump +0.3


RCP: Biden 51.3%, Trump 42.4%
FiveThirtyEight: Biden 52.5%, Trump 41.7%
*At this point in 2016: Clinton +6.5*


*Swing state averages *

*Arizona: Biden +3.8*

USA TODAY average of averages: Biden 49.3%, Trump 45.5%

Last week: Biden 48.5%, Trump 45.2% (Biden +3.3)

Net change: Biden +0.5

*Florida: Biden +2.7*

USA TODAY average of averages: Biden 48.7%, Trump 46.0%

Last week: Biden 48.5%, Trump 44.5% (Biden +4.0)

Net change: Trump +1.3

*Georgia: Biden +1.3*

USA TODAY average of averages: Biden 47.9%, Trump 46.6%

Last week: Biden 47.1%, Trump 46.9% (Biden +0.2)

Net change: Biden +1.1

*Iowa: Biden +0.8*

USA TODAY average of averages: Biden 47.8%, Trump 47.0%

Last week: NA

Net change: NA

*Michigan: Biden +7.5*

USA TODAY average of averages: Biden 50.4%, Trump 42.9%

Last week: Biden 50.5%, Trump 43.2% (Biden +7.3)

Net change: Biden +0.2

*Minnesota: Biden +7.8*

USA TODAY average of averages: Biden 49.0%, Trump 41.2%

Last week: Biden 50.4%, Trump 41.1% (Biden +9.3)

Net change: Trump +1.5

*Nevada: Biden +5.9*

USA TODAY average of averages: Biden 49.3%, Trump 43.4%

Last week: Biden 50.2%, Trump 43.8% (Biden +6.4)

Net change: Trump +0.5

*North Carolina: Biden +2.9*

USA TODAY average of averages: Biden 48.8%, Trump 45.9%

Last week: Biden 48.7%, Trump 46.5% (Biden +2.2)

Net change: Biden +0.7

*Ohio: Trump +0.3*

USA TODAY average of averages: Trump 46.7%, Biden 46.4%

Last week: Biden 47.0%, Trump 46.3% (Biden +0.7)

Net change: Trump +1.0

*Pennsylvania:* *Biden +5.5*

USA TODAY average of averages: Biden 50.0%, Trump 44.5%

Last week: Biden 51.0%, Trump 43.8% (Biden +7.2)

Net change: Trump +1.7

*Texas:* *Trump +2.9*

USA TODAY average of averages: Trump 48.9%, Biden 46.0%

Last week: Trump 48.8%, Biden 45.8% (Trump +3.0) 

Net change: Biden +0.1

*Wisconsin:* *Biden +6.7*

USA TODAY average of averages: Biden 50.5%, Trump 43.8%

Last week: Biden 49.9%, Trump 43.6% (Biden +6.3)

Net change: Biden +0.4

*Source*


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## -=virus=-




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## Gomig-21

cloud4000 said:


> Trump is an exasperating character for friend and foe alike. Even much of his own party despise him but only support because they have no choice. Whether it's inane, incessant tweeting, his impulsive statements, or just his boorish behavior, the man is exhausting.
> 
> I think the country is suffering from Trump fatigue and want someone a little more boing.
> One thing that sucks about living in a blue state is that Massachusetts is a nonfactor in the presidential election. Democrats don't campaign here because they know they will win and Republicans don't care here because they know they won't.



You know, you make a good point there with how Trump's behavior has exacerbated the country, but I bet more than anything else, he's exacerbated the moral within the Republican party. There's no doubt about that and you can see many of these GOP senators -- those who haven't come out and condemned his behavior -- are quietly distancing themselves from him because of exactly what you said. They're getting tired of maintaining support for something they most certainly don't agree with and that is his behavior. From the lying to the pathetically childish ways he handles issues to the way he insults people. Even Bill Barr (his personal attorney general what a joke and a disgrace that whole thing turned out) is slowly realizing that he's pinched by this lunatic who's putting a world of pressure on him to start an investigation on the Bidens and Hunter BEFORE the election so it can be a big dousie and a bombshell that would work against Biden and in this jerk's favor but even the corrupted AG is having second thoughts about moving forward with anything like this because there is NOTHING THERE and he can't risk starting something this bombastic and falsely incriminating and he knows it. So he's dragging his feet and dickhead is really pissed at him Looool! Oh man. The guy has single-handedly practically set back the Republican party 1000 years. They're going to have a lot of reeling to do to regain that once prominence that party enjoyed.

Should he win or lose, either way, the Republican party has taken a huge blow by the way this guy has basically held it hostage and dismantled it in merely 4, measly years! They have A LOT of repairing to do and it won't be easy. They'll need to pick up the pieces and slowly rebuild all the damage this idiot has done all by himself. We thought George W. Bush was bad!? How many republican senators would trade for him in a heartbeat right about now?

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## Tom-tom

Does any one think that trump faked contracting coronavirus to garner public sympathy. Why has this question not been asked in public media. 

Let look at the facts, this tangerine weighs around 20 stone and is over 60, prances around like a bee hasn't stong him. Yet he contracted coronavirus.


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## -=virus=-

Tom-tom said:


> Does any one think that trump faked contracting coronavirus to garner public sympathy. Why has this question not been asked in public media.
> 
> Let look at the facts, this tangerine weighs around 20 stone and is over 60, prances around like a bee hasn't stong him. Yet he contracted coronavirus.


He's in pretty good shape for a man of his age. 

Guy's a teetotaler, eats junk food and keeps on the move. (seems to work for him somehow)

Plus he also probably got the best care on earth and administered treatments that are not available to regular folk. 

and he didn't get much, if any sympathy from 97% of the US media anyway.


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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan



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## cloud4000

For those Indian-Americans who are just voting for Trump because he’s Modi’s BFF, please emigrate.

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

Thank goodness, unlike the last debate, this time around, Trump behaved himself, but he lied like hell. In my opinion, neither Biden nor Trump landed any major blows against each other. And that was bad for Trump, since he is the underdog, he desperately needed far better outcome.

The bottom line is that the debate changed nothing.


*Poll: Majority of viewers say Biden won final debate*
*Debate watchers surveyed in a POLITICO/Morning Consult poll said, by a 15-point margin, Biden performed better than Trump.*

By EVAN SEMONES 10/23/2020 07:35 PM

Joe Biden outperformed President Donald Trump in Thursday’s final presidential debate, according to a new POLITICO/Morning Consult flash poll released Friday.

The survey found that 54 percent of debate watchers believed Biden won the matchup, while 39 percent said Trump did. Only 8 percent of those who watched said they didn’t know or had no opinion.


Despite most national polls indicating that voters have decided whom they’re supporting in this year’s election, nearly two-thirds of voters tuned in for Thursday’s debate at Belmont University in Nashville, Tenn., while 37 percent did not.

The Commission on Presidential Debates’ unprecedented decision to mute each candidate’s microphone when the other was speaking appeared to pay off with viewers after last month's noxious first debate of constant interruptions that many criticized as an unpleasant viewing experience. *Read more*

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## JackFell

RabzonKhan said:


> Thank goodness, unlike the last debate, this time around, Trump behaved himself, but he lied like hell. In my opinion, neither Biden nor Trump landed any major blows against each other. And that was bad for Trump, since he is the underdog, he desperately needed far better outcome.
> 
> The bottom line is that the debate changed nothing.
> 
> 
> *Poll: Majority of viewers say Biden won final debate*
> *Debate watchers surveyed in a POLITICO/Morning Consult poll said, by a 15-point margin, Biden performed better than Trump.*
> 
> By EVAN SEMONES 10/23/2020 07:35 PM
> 
> Joe Biden outperformed President Donald Trump in Thursday’s final presidential debate, according to a new POLITICO/Morning Consult flash poll released Friday.
> 
> The survey found that 54 percent of debate watchers believed Biden won the matchup, while 39 percent said Trump did. Only 8 percent of those who watched said they didn’t know or had no opinion.
> 
> 
> Despite most national polls indicating that voters have decided whom they’re supporting in this year’s election, nearly two-thirds of voters tuned in for Thursday’s debate at Belmont University in Nashville, Tenn., while 37 percent did not.
> 
> The Commission on Presidential Debates’ unprecedented decision to mute each candidate’s microphone when the other was speaking appeared to pay off with viewers after last month's noxious first debate of constant interruptions that many criticized as an unpleasant viewing experience. *Read more*



Trump was terrible, he could have easily landed massive blows against Biden vis-à-vis illegal immigration but he didn't. Trump was a conman from day one anyway, all of his children are married to Jews.


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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

Eight days to go and Biden is still going strong, on the other hand, Hillary was losing momentum.

*National Polls: Trump vs. Biden- 8 Days To Election: Biden +8.3
RCP POLL AVERAGE 2020

National Polls: Trump vs. Clinton- 8 Days To Election: Clinton +2.9
RCP POLL AVERAGE 2016*
*source*

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## RabzonKhan

Just damn wow, that is clearly a fascist agenda. What do you guys think? @cloud4000 @Gomig-21



*Scoop: Trump's post-election execution list*
https://www.axios.com/authors/newsdesk/
Jonathan Swan, Alayna Treene

If President Trump wins re-election, he'll move to immediately fire FBI Director Christopher Wray and also expects to replace CIA Director Gina Haspel and Defense Secretary Mark Esper, two people who've discussed these officials' fates with the president tell Axios.

*The big picture: *The list of planned replacements is much longer, but these are Trump's priorities, starting with Wray.



Wray and Haspel are despised and distrusted almost universally in Trump's inner circle. He would have fired both already, one official said, if not for the political headaches of acting before Nov. 3.
*Why it matters:* A win, no matter the margin, will embolden Trump to ax anyone he sees as constraining him from enacting desired policies or going after perceived enemies.

Trump last week signed an executive order that set off alarm bells as a means to politicize the civil service. An administration official said the order "is a really big deal" that would make it easier for presidents to get rid of career government officials.
There could be shake-ups across other departments. The president has never been impressed with Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, for example. But that doesn't carry the urgency of replacing Wray or Haspel.
The nature of top intelligence and law enforcement posts has traditionally carried an expectation for a higher degree of independence and separation from politics.
*Be smart:* While Trump has also privately vented about Attorney General Bill Barr, he hasn't made any formal plans to replace him, an official said.

Trump is furious that Barr isn't releasing before the election what Trump hoped would be a bombshell report by U.S. Attorney John Durham on the Obama administration's handling of the Trump-Russia investigation.
Durham's investigation has yet to produce any high-profile indictments of Obama-era officials as Trump had hoped.
"The attorney general wants to finish the work that he's been involved in since day one," a senior administration official told Axios.
*Behind the scenes: *"The view of Haspel in the West Wing is that she still sees her job as manipulating people and outcomes, the way she must have when she was working assets in the field," one source with direct knowledge of the internal conversations told Axios. "It's bred a lot of suspicion of her motives."

Trump is also increasingly frustrated with Haspel for opposing the declassification of documents that would help the Justice Department's Durham report.
*A source familiar* *with conversations at the CIA says,* "Since the beginning of DNI's push to declassify documents, and how strongly she feels about protecting sources connected to those materials, there have been rumblings around the agency that the director plans to depart the CIA regardless of who wins the election.”
*As for Wray*, whose expected firing was first reported by The Daily Beast, Trump is angry his second FBI chief didn't launch a formal investigation into Hunter Biden's foreign business connections — and didn't purge more officials Trump believes abused power to investigate his 2016 campaign's ties to Russia.

Trump also grew incensed when Wray testified in September that the FBI has not seen widespread election fraud, including with mail-in ballots.
*A senior FBI official tells Axios:* "Major law enforcement associations representing current and former FBI agents as well as police and sheriff's departments across the country have consistently expressed their full support of Director Wray's leadership of the Bureau."
*Trump soured on Esper* over the summer when the Defense secretary rebuffed the idea of sending active-duty military into the streets to deal with racial justice protests and distanced himself from the clearing of Lafayette Square for a photo op at St. John's church.

Trump indicated to Axios then that he "really wasn't focused on" firing Esper. One senior official cautioned that others who want the Pentagon job could be driving speculation to undercut Esper. But one source, who discussed options with Trump, told Axios he urged the president to wait until post-election to replace him.
Chief Pentagon spokesman Jonathan Hoffman said in a statement that Esper "has always been and remains committed to doing what is best for the military and the Nation.”
*Trump 2.0 would bring more loyalty tests
Chris Liddell, Trump's deputy chief of staff* for policy coordination, is heading the White House’s transition effort, including vetting potential new Cabinet officials, two White House officials told Axios.

He's working closely with White House counsel Pat Cipollone and Johnny McEntee, who runs the Office of Presidential Personnel and has been conducting "loyalty tests" to weed out "Never Trumpers" from the administration.
In 2016, Trump famously blew up his own transition process. The officials said Liddell is determined to avoid a repeat. Liddell declined to comment.
Politico first reported on Trump's transition team.
*Don't forget: *The transition between first and second terms is traditionally a time when presidents who win re-election accept resignations and switch out their teams.

Former chiefs of staff to Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama, speaking on David Marchick's "Transition Lab" podcast, said their administrations didn't prepare enough for a "robust transition" between terms.
Bush's former chief Josh Bolten said he'd advise Trump to "rethink all of your personnel and know what your priorities are."
*White House spokesman Judd Deere told Axios:* "We have no personnel announcements at this time nor would it be appropriate to speculate about changes after the election or in a 2nd term." *Source *

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 682897
> 
> 
> 
> Just damn wow, that is clearly a fascist agenda. What do you guys think? @cloud4000 @Gomig-21
> 
> 
> 
> *Scoop: Trump's post-election execution list*
> https://www.axios.com/authors/newsdesk/
> Jonathan Swan, Alayna Treene
> 
> If President Trump wins re-election, he'll move to immediately fire FBI Director Christopher Wray and also expects to replace CIA Director Gina Haspel and Defense Secretary Mark Esper, two people who've discussed these officials' fates with the president tell Axios.
> 
> *The big picture: *The list of planned replacements is much longer, but these are Trump's priorities, starting with Wray.
> 
> 
> 
> Wray and Haspel are despised and distrusted almost universally in Trump's inner circle. He would have fired both already, one official said, if not for the political headaches of acting before Nov. 3.
> *Why it matters:* A win, no matter the margin, will embolden Trump to ax anyone he sees as constraining him from enacting desired policies or going after perceived enemies.
> 
> Trump last week signed an executive order that set off alarm bells as a means to politicize the civil service. An administration official said the order "is a really big deal" that would make it easier for presidents to get rid of career government officials.
> There could be shake-ups across other departments. The president has never been impressed with Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, for example. But that doesn't carry the urgency of replacing Wray or Haspel.
> The nature of top intelligence and law enforcement posts has traditionally carried an expectation for a higher degree of independence and separation from politics.
> *Be smart:* While Trump has also privately vented about Attorney General Bill Barr, he hasn't made any formal plans to replace him, an official said.
> 
> Trump is furious that Barr isn't releasing before the election what Trump hoped would be a bombshell report by U.S. Attorney John Durham on the Obama administration's handling of the Trump-Russia investigation.
> Durham's investigation has yet to produce any high-profile indictments of Obama-era officials as Trump had hoped.
> "The attorney general wants to finish the work that he's been involved in since day one," a senior administration official told Axios.
> *Behind the scenes: *"The view of Haspel in the West Wing is that she still sees her job as manipulating people and outcomes, the way she must have when she was working assets in the field," one source with direct knowledge of the internal conversations told Axios. "It's bred a lot of suspicion of her motives."
> 
> Trump is also increasingly frustrated with Haspel for opposing the declassification of documents that would help the Justice Department's Durham report.
> *A source familiar* *with conversations at the CIA says,* "Since the beginning of DNI's push to declassify documents, and how strongly she feels about protecting sources connected to those materials, there have been rumblings around the agency that the director plans to depart the CIA regardless of who wins the election.”
> *As for Wray*, whose expected firing was first reported by The Daily Beast, Trump is angry his second FBI chief didn't launch a formal investigation into Hunter Biden's foreign business connections — and didn't purge more officials Trump believes abused power to investigate his 2016 campaign's ties to Russia.
> 
> Trump also grew incensed when Wray testified in September that the FBI has not seen widespread election fraud, including with mail-in ballots.
> *A senior FBI official tells Axios:* "Major law enforcement associations representing current and former FBI agents as well as police and sheriff's departments across the country have consistently expressed their full support of Director Wray's leadership of the Bureau."
> *Trump soured on Esper* over the summer when the Defense secretary rebuffed the idea of sending active-duty military into the streets to deal with racial justice protests and distanced himself from the clearing of Lafayette Square for a photo op at St. John's church.
> 
> Trump indicated to Axios then that he "really wasn't focused on" firing Esper. One senior official cautioned that others who want the Pentagon job could be driving speculation to undercut Esper. But one source, who discussed options with Trump, told Axios he urged the president to wait until post-election to replace him.
> Chief Pentagon spokesman Jonathan Hoffman said in a statement that Esper "has always been and remains committed to doing what is best for the military and the Nation.”
> *Trump 2.0 would bring more loyalty tests
> Chris Liddell, Trump's deputy chief of staff* for policy coordination, is heading the White House’s transition effort, including vetting potential new Cabinet officials, two White House officials told Axios.
> 
> He's working closely with White House counsel Pat Cipollone and Johnny McEntee, who runs the Office of Presidential Personnel and has been conducting "loyalty tests" to weed out "Never Trumpers" from the administration.
> In 2016, Trump famously blew up his own transition process. The officials said Liddell is determined to avoid a repeat. Liddell declined to comment.
> Politico first reported on Trump's transition team.
> *Don't forget: *The transition between first and second terms is traditionally a time when presidents who win re-election accept resignations and switch out their teams.
> 
> Former chiefs of staff to Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama, speaking on David Marchick's "Transition Lab" podcast, said their administrations didn't prepare enough for a "robust transition" between terms.
> Bush's former chief Josh Bolten said he'd advise Trump to "rethink all of your personnel and know what your priorities are."
> *White House spokesman Judd Deere told Axios:* "We have no personnel announcements at this time nor would it be appropriate to speculate about changes after the election or in a 2nd term." *Source *



No surprise that turnover is high at the White House. So much so that they should add a physical revolving door to the place!

Seriously, Trump is someone who likes to surround himself with yes men, lackeys, and sycophants. He doesn't want to hear the truth...he wants to hear his version of the truth, which is often both wrong and/or fantasy.

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Just damn wow, that is clearly a fascist agenda. What do you guys think? @cloud4000 @Gomig-21



Not surprised at all. I almost fell out of my chair the other day when they showed the live phone call he was having with the prime minister of Sudan and Israel and he asks Netanyahu if he thought "sleepy Joe could've done this deal" and he honestly expected "loyalty" from Netanyahu like as if he would trash Joe Biden just to please this donkey lol!? So Netanyahu, after a very long and uncomfortable pause says "uuuh.....well.....Mr. President we are so grateful that we would accept this from aaannyyyone in the United States" LOL! Of course he wouldn't diss Joe Biden and to think this idiot actually thought he would do that when there's a strong chance he might get elected and even without that, other leaders just don't trash and insult other leaders and this guys just doesn't seem to get it and thought he would get unconditional loyalty even from Netanyahu after giving him Jerusalem and all sorts of stuff. That's what he expects and you can tell he was pissed off at that answer looool I was loving it.

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## RabzonKhan

Meet Georgia’s 14th Congressional District winner, Marjorie Taylor Greene (70% district’s residents voted for Trump in 2016), just like Trump she has played on racist tropes. During the runoff she was supported by many anti-government, Islamophobic and anti-Semitic racists. She is also a member of conspiracy ridden anti-minority QAnon movement.

This is how Trump welcomed her:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293525010523578375

In recordings obtained by POLITICO, Greene described Islamic nations under Sharia law as places where men have sex with "little boys, little girls, multiple women" and "marry their sisters" and "their cousins." She suggested the 2018 midterms — which ushered in the most diverse class of House freshmen — was part of “an Islamic invasion of our government” and that “anyone that is a Muslim that believes in Sharia law does not belong in our government.”

"You stay there, and you go to Mecca and do all your thing. And, you know what, you can have a whole bunch of wives, or goats, or sheep, or whatever you want. You stay over there. But in America, see, we’ve made it this great, great country. We don’t want it messed up."

She also spends several minutes attacking Imtiaz Ahmad Mohammad, a candidate for the Florida state House, because he is Muslim and an immigrant.

"So let me tell you something. This man is not born in America. He’s from Pakistan. OK?," she said, warning he was the only candidate who had filed for the seat, and that “his last name is Mohammad.”

She then attempted to recruit a challenger: "Anyone that lives in that district, you better sign your butt up and run against this guy,” she said. “Because we cannot let him win."

Note: If interested, you guys can watch her video clip. *Source*

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## -=virus=-

*Hunter Biden: **** Star and Traitor*







National Pulse obtained a recording file that exclusively exposed the latest news of Hunter Biden’s “Mail Gate”. In the recording, you can hear that Hunter is deeply involved with a business controlled by a Chinese Communist Party spy. Here is a summary of the recording:



Hunter Biden’s business partner Devon Archer listed Hunter and his father as witnesses in criminal cases in the Federal Court of the Southern District of New York.
Hunter Biden is asked by the New York Times about his relationship with Patrick He (何志平), who is the “Chinese Communist Party spy chief”.
Hunter Biden’s business partner, Ye Jianming, the boss of CEFC China Energy, has seemingly vanished.
According to the New York Post, Patrick He (何志平) also participated in the investment project of China Huaxin, but this news was suppressed by the media and big technology companies.

Here is what Hunter Biden said in the recording:


“I get calls from my father to tell me that the New York Times is calling about my old partner Eric, who literally has done me harm, for I don’t know how long, is the one taking the calls because my father will not stop sending the calls to Eric. I have another New York Times reporter calling about my representation of Patrick He – the fucking spy chief of China, who started the company that my partner who is worth 323 billion dollars, founded and is now missing. The richest man in the world is missing, who was my partner. He was missing since I last saw him in his 58 million dollar apartment, and signed a 4 billion dollar deal to build the fucking largest fucking LNG port in the world. And I am receiving calls from the Southern District of New York from the US Attorney himself. My best friend in business, Devon, has named me as a witness without telling me, in a criminal case, and my father, without telling me. ”


Comments: This recording of Hunter Biden directly confirmed several things…


(1) Hunter clearly knows that Patrick He (何志平) is the spy leader of the Chinese Communist Party and still chose to foster business relations with him.


(2) He and his former vice president father were dragged into a criminal case by his best business partner, Devon Archer.


(3) No matter how Joe Biden defended the business activities carried out by his son, the truth that he is the mastermind behind the curtain is becoming more evident. Let’s wait for more evidence to fully expose his crimes.


(4) More American people and the whole world will see the extremely corrupt and ugly face of the Biden family that has been collaborating with the Chinese Communist Party.


The recording link:


https://rumble.com/vautmt-exc-hunter-biden-audio-on-chinese-spies-and-joe.html









Hunter Biden: Porn Star and Traitor - GNEWS


National Pulse obtained a recording file that exclusively exposed the latest news of Hunter Biden's "Mail Gate". In the recording, you can hear that Hunter is deeply involved with a business controlled by a Chinese Communist Party spy.




gnews.org





https://gnews.org/ <- All the dirt on sleazebag Hunter Biden can be found here, including the sekx tapes, be careful, *NSFW !! *

One of them clearly looks underage, Hunter can be seen taking a wank on web chat + lots more ahahahahahahhahahahhahah !!

Q is right after all, a shady cabal of pedophiles in the democrat party + hollywood (Kevin Spacey, Epstein etc)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------






lol hilarious, too bad the left cant meme


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## RabzonKhan



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## F-22Raptor

Looking highly likely Biden will win. Casted my vote today.

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## idune

*The Disappearing America: Progressives Want a Revolution, Not Just Change*

Philip Girald
October 29, 2020

In any given news cycle it is sometimes the lesser articles that are more illuminating in terms of where everything in a country as vast as the United States is heading. This is particularly true in terms of what the U.S. has been experiencing in 2020: a pandemic, civil unrest, wars and continued turmoil overseas plus an election that promises to result in one of two radically different visions of what America should be.
Ironically, Joe Biden is being depicted as the establishment candidate but the Democratic Party program is actually far more radical than that of the Republicans. The Democrats are locked into support of policies that are ostensibly meant to address racial disparities and gender related issue but will instead increasingly turn government into an intrusive mechanism for social engineering, abandoning America’s traditional meritocracy while also creating categories that some might describe as fostering reverse racism and sexism. There could be devastating impact on American education, on maintaining law and order, on controlling immigration, on setting hiring quotas and on First and Fourth Amendment rights relating to free speech and association. A glorious multicultural and gender bending future shaped by Democratic Party social justice hacks will be nothing but a disaster for most Americans, effectively disenfranchising many citizens based on the color of their skin or for other attributes yet to be determined.
And the widespread support for Biden by neoconservatives, who would return to power with his administration, would mean that the likes of Bill Kristol, Max Boot, and Jennifer Rubin will be driving a pro-Israel anti-Iran policy that might even outdo what Trump and Mike Pompeo have contrived, which now will include labeling international human rights agencies as anti-Semitic. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee would be headed by Robert Menendez, corrupt even by congressional standards, who is a totally owned shill for the Israel Lobby. Dan Shapiro, who has apparently become Biden’s leading adviser on the Middle East, is an American Jew now living in Israel and working for an Israeli think tank who should be registered as a Foreign Agent.
The neocons and their media allies are also architects of much of the anti-Russian sentiment in Congress, making the current bad relationship measurably worse. As the Democrats have been blaming practically everything on Russian President Vladimir Putin one cannot expect any serious effort to reset the relationship.
Trump for his part brings with him the negative baggage of his abrasive persona as well as his apparent inability to assimilate and apply simple facts relating to how the nation and the rest of the world work. He has been the aggressor directly against Syria and Iran as well as Venezuela and has been using NATO to threaten Russia. His attitudes towards the environment and climate change are also a disgrace but whatever you think of Trump’s actual performance, the fact is that throughout the campaign and since taking office most of the media and the entire “progressive” left has been labeling him a fascist and a racist. And hanging the racist tail on Trump has continued in the current campaign, to include the lines of questioning in the recent presidential debates and the town hall hosted by Savannah Guthrie.
Trump might make America worse in some ways, but he will not substantially change it as the Democrats almost certainly will do either willfully or by not paying attention to what is developing. Several stories circulating on social media demonstrate just how much “equal justice under law” has been eroded in the minds of some Democratic Party luminaries. Former Clinton Labor Secretary Robert Reich tweeted a demand to create a “Truth and Reconciliation Commission” after the expected defeat of Donald Trump. The commission borrows the name and would be modeled on the organization set up in South Africa after the fall of the apartheid government and the establishment of majority black rule, an exercise in attempted democratization that has nevertheless failed to put an end to extremely high levels of corruption and communal violence in the country.
Reich’s objective is not limited to punishing the Trump White House’s top officials who may have promoted policies considered anathema by the incoming Democratic administration. Reich tweeted “When this nightmare is over, we need a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. It would erase Trump’s lies, comfort those who have been harmed by his hatefulness, and name every official, politician, executive, and media mogul whose greed and cowardice enabled this catastrophe.” The Reich proposal would potentially mean punishing thousands of otherwise innocent individuals who had little influence over what happened during the past four years. “Enabled” covers a lot of ground, and is prone to devolve into something like a witch hunt. “McCarthyism” only much worse comes immediately to mind.
Reich followed up on his proposal with a second tweet saying “I love the people responding to this tweet as if it’s a radical, undemocratic idea” and, to be sure, there are a lot of people out there who think like he does. One Reich supporter wrote in defense of the proposal “As long as unresolved historic injustices continue to fester in the world, there will be a demand for truth commissions” and there have been numerous comments on social media sites like Facebook insisting that “something be done” about the “deplorables” who voted for and supported Trump.
Other comments made on Twitter in response to the Reich demand include “It is the right idea and I fully support it. It is not right for people to do so much damage to people and get away Scott free. The GOP is Complicit in Genicide and Senicide. There need to be repercussions.” And “I agree 100%… my fear is Joe Biden is going to come into office and want to heal the nation and work with the GOP and ignore all this… if he does that, I will work to ensure he is a 1 term president too.” And also “But it doesn’t go far enough, clearly. Trump’s assets and those of his voters should be seized by the state through legislation and distributed to those he’s harmed as reparations. Surely that’s the only way to heal our nation. Land of the free!” And finally “Robert… you’re right. And after we win… we’ll come for you all… we’re pretty much over trying to share a country with you anyway. Four years ago I thought you were people with bad ideas. I was wrong: YOU’RE BAD PEOPLE.”
Another good Democrats-are-in-power story comes from Virginia where Governor Ralph Northam is preparing to sign a bill that will prevent policemen from stopping cars with expired registrations or inspection stickers, no headlights, brake lights, or other moving violations relating to safety. The reasoning behind the bill is that black drivers appear to be stopped for such offenses disproportionately. That may be true, but the assumption by Northam and his crew is that blacks are being targeted by police, whereas the actual cause just might be that a disproportionate number of blacks don’t maintain their cars very well. Some black public officials including Arlington’s so-called Public Defender Brad Haywood loves the idea, saying: “This might be the most significant reform of the state’s criminal justice system in decades. This is a big step forward for racial justice in Virginia.”
While some of the offenses might be regarded as relatively painless, allowing cars to drive without brake lights in a state like Virginia where drivers routinely proceed at over 70 miles an hour on highways could prove catastrophic if someone had to stop quickly with the cars behind not knowing it until too late. The safety of all citizens is clearly being sacrificed to render what is perceived as social justice for a minority, but when Democrats are in a full pander mode anything is possible.
And a third and final story, also from Virginia, is about the impending death of the once formidable American public education system. It concerns the destruction of what is regarded as the best high school in the United States because it is not diverse enough. The Fairfax County school board has ruled that the high admission standards at Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology, a prestigious magnet school, are now to be eliminated after approval of a proposal submitted by Superintendent Scott Brabrand. The decision by the board eliminates the test and the $100 application fee, long requirements of the rigorous admissions process at Thomas Jefferson. Brabrand’s proposal also increases the size of the school, known as TJ. The changes have been implemented and this year’s eighth-graders — many of whom have prepared for the test — will not take the multi-part exam covering math, reading and science.
Details of how the new admissions policy will work have not been finalized, but a lottery is being considered. One mother protested that a lottery “trashes the meaning of hard work.” TJ’s student body is currently more than 70 percent Asian and about 20 percent white, with single-digit percentages of black and Hispanic students. The intention is to have the school more closely resemble the demographics of Fairfax County’s schools, which is 10 per cent black, 27 per cent Hispanic and 38 per cent white. It will be accomplished by fiat policies and quotas. Though whites are actually under-represented in the school nothing will be done to increase their presence.
Other select by-examination-only schools in New York City, Boston, Chicago and on the West Coast are similarly being stripped of their exclusivity and will instead be embracing diversity. The San Diego school district is completely eliminating testing grades so more minorities can graduate. And the students will no longer be downgraded for exhibiting behavior problems or truancy.
The Beatles once sang “You say you want a revolution!” It seems that many so-called progressives, minority spokespersons and assorted radicals want one here in America. Truth commissions, laws that only apply based on race and quotas in schools are only the beginning. Joe and Kamala, if they are elected, will no doubt encourage all that and more. As there are many “deplorable” Americans who want to preserve what the United States once was, the Democrats might well regret the path that they have chosen even if they do win the election.



https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/10/29/disappearing-america-progressives-want-a-revolution-not-just-change/


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## Gomig-21

lol, this is so good!  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1121218371545194497

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## RabzonKhan

*Republican Voters Against Trump





Paul has a question for Christians who support Trump.






**Trump disregards conservative values. Elke believes Biden will bring character back to the office.*

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## Gomig-21

F-22Raptor said:


> Looking highly likely Biden will win. Casted my vote today.



Good for you. Our household did so earlier in the week.

If Biden wins Florida, it should be a route. Pretty sure he has California's 55 electoral votes and adding Florida's 29 would be a great boost.

So far with early voting, it looks like what, about 9 million more votes than half of the total votes counted in 2016 have already been cast? Looks like people have really come out to vote this year, big time.

Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, Nevada, Iowa, North Carolina and Pennsylvania will be huge and Republicans are closing the gap in a few of those states where early voting was favoring Democrats. Something to keep an eye out for.

The Senate race is about as exciting as the presidential one! Dems need 4 or so seats to turn the senate blue and watching Lindsey Graham sweating bullets and begging for money every time he goes on TV is pathetic and shows how he's in the fight of his life after having an easy road to the seat every election. And even Susan Collins in Maine is being severely challenged by Sarah Gideon because of her stupid reasoning to her yes vote on that jackass Cavanaugh. We knew that was going to hurt her and it seems to show a little bit with Gideon raising a TON of money and taking it to Collins. That race is going to be interesting to watch as well as Lindsey Graham all these big-time Republican senators who cuddled to Trump in these volatile states are having to earn their seat this time because of their unwavering loyalty to the orange gorilla.

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## Gomig-21

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1322285901343457280

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## FuturePAF

Some election music (mods please excuse the profanity, just sharing songs that may come to symbolize the end of the Trump era or conversely, if Trump wins, how strong his base really is)

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## Hamartia Antidote

Michael Moore: ‘Don’t believe polls, Trump vote is always undercounted’


Presidential election in swing states is probably closer than the polls indicate, says filmmaker




www.independent.co.uk

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## -=virus=-

only it's not a laugh, it's a cackle

and it's SOOO FAKE

she is so fake

disgusting creature, this woman who: 

*"went to town on ol' willy brown*
_*
on her knees as she went down
*_
*she went to town on ol' willy brown"*


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## RabzonKhan




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## Gomig-21

Hahaha, Joe Biden with a great sense of humor at the Dump's expense. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1322569017412997122

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## RabzonKhan

In late January, Trump held a rally in Oklahoma, and used the racist term “kung flu” and “Chinese virus” to describe the Coronavirus. This was just one of several racist statements he made during that rally. Clearly, his racist reference to the Coronavirus as “kung flu,” and “Chinese virus” was a deliberate effort to stoke xenophobia. His despicable rhetoric has fueled a surge in harassment toward Chinese and other Asian Americans. Many of them have faced Physical assaults, Workplace discrimination, Verbal harassment and their Businesses have suffered financial losses.








Here is just one example, note, the man is not Trump’s typical base (white men with no college education) or someone living in Mississippi or Alabama, the scumbag is well educated and lives in California.

Trump supporter hurls racist abuse at Asian family : '*Trump's Gonna F*** You!'

You f***ers need to leave... f***ing Asian piece of s**t," the man is heard saying to Chan's family in the clip.





*
But the good thing is, a White waitress confronted him and told him that they are our guests (Asian-American family) and you have to get the F*** out of the restaurant and she did kick him out of the restaurant.

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## RabzonKhan

Three days to election and Biden still has a strong lead over Trump, on the other hand, as we can see, Hillary’s lead over Trump had collapsed. So, all those people who still keep on referring to 2016 polls can see the difference between this year’s election and 2016. Now I am not trying to say Trump has no chance of winning, all I’m saying is, first, this election is different than 2016 and according to polls Trump still has 10 to 20% chance of winning.


*National Polls: Trump vs. Biden- 3 Days To Election: Biden +7.8
RCP POLL AVERAGE 2020

National Polls: Trump vs. Clinton- 3 Days To Election: Clinton +2.1
RCP POLL AVERAGE 2016*

*Source*


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## YeBeWarned

F-22Raptor said:


> Looking highly likely Biden will win. Casted my vote today.



hard to predict , last time people were sure of Hilary winning but we all know what happened ..my wife will be casting her vote on Monday as she told me, lets see who wins


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## F-22Raptor

YeBeWarned said:


> hard to predict , last time people were sure of Hilary winning but we all know what happened ..my wife will be casting her vote on Monday as she told me, lets see who wins



Its not impossible, but Trump will have to be almost perfect for him to win. Hillarys poll numbers collapsed right before the 16 election.


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## YeBeWarned

F-22Raptor said:


> Its not impossible, but Trump will have to be almost perfect for him to win. Hillarys poll numbers collapsed right before the 16 election.



After the whole Hunter biden and his laptop drama come off on tv , we might see a similar trend and just yesterday i was seeing a report that black young Americans are more likely to vote for Trump , compared to black females, the electoral college system is tricky upsets can happen as we see it last time, but i think this time Trump may not win as he shattered US image even in the eyes of its allies .


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## RabzonKhan

*Republican Voters Against Trump*

*



Fake News? This Texan knows that Trump is to blame...






David from Maryland asks, "would you hire Trump at your company?"*


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## -=virus=-

Gomig-21 said:


> Hahaha, Joe Biden with a great sense of humor at the Dump's expense.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1322569017412997122


Lovely, all 771of them  

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...rowd-of-771-people-in-365-cars-in-atlanta/now 

beat this: 





This man is going to crush sleepy Joe in a landslide !


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## Gomig-21

-=virus=- said:


> Lovely, all 771of them



Hahaha, hey, at least they're making an effort not to create a super-spreader event like those reckless fascist rallies, right?



-=virus=- said:


> beat this:
> View attachment 684699



Speaking of fascist, yes, almost as impressive as what this guy used to have, too! lol








-=virus=- said:


> This man is going to crush sleepy Joe in a landslide !



Hey, listen, if he wins a 2nd term, then we deserve the misery of this loser because that just means not enough people wanted him out and didn't make the effort to vote him out, plain and simple. If more people vote for that sorry excuse of a human being let alone the president of this great country, then we are the only ones to blame because we allowed it to happen.


And BTW, all that bragadocia about all those people at that lunatic's rallies that bring out those wonderful "characters", just in from Stanford University.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1322527556126605313

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## The SC

Gomig-21 said:


> Good for you. Our household did so earlier in the week.
> 
> If Biden wins Florida, it should be a route. Pretty sure he has California's 55 electoral votes and adding Florida's 29 would be a great boost.
> 
> So far with early voting, it looks like what, about 9 million more votes than half of the total votes counted in 2016 have already been cast? Looks like people have really come out to vote this year, big time.
> 
> Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, Nevada, Iowa, North Carolina and Pennsylvania will be huge and Republicans are closing the gap in a few of those states where early voting was favoring Democrats. Something to keep an eye out for.
> 
> The Senate race is about as exciting as the presidential one! Dems need 4 or so seats to turn the senate blue and watching Lindsey Graham sweating bullets and begging for money every time he goes on TV is pathetic and shows how he's in the fight of his life after having an easy road to the seat every election. And even Susan Collins in Maine is being severely challenged by Sarah Gideon because of her stupid reasoning to her yes vote on that jackass Cavanaugh. We knew that was going to hurt her and it seems to show a little bit with Gideon raising a TON of money and taking it to Collins. That race is going to be interesting to watch as well as Lindsey Graham all these big-time Republican senators who cuddled to Trump in these volatile states are having to earn their seat this time because of their unwavering loyalty to the orange gorilla.

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## -=virus=-

Gomig-21 said:


> Hahaha, hey, at least they're making an effort not to create a super-spreader event like those reckless fascist rallies, right?


What about these:









?



Gomig-21 said:


> Hey, listen, if he wins a 2nd term, then we deserve the misery of this loser because that just means not enough people wanted him out and didn't make the effort to vote him out, plain and simple. If more people vote for that sorry excuse of a human being let alone the president of this great country, then we are the only ones to blame because we allowed it to happen.
> 
> 
> And BTW, all that bragadocia about all those people at that lunatic's rallies that bring out those wonderful "characters", just in from Stanford University.


It's interesting how this election is turning out to be nothing but a referendum on Trump. Biden's almost a non character who barely campaigned and was rarely seen out and about.

Curious, which of his policies do you have a problem with ? From the outside it was looking like he's done pretty well up until the China virus hit.

Stanford should do another study on how much the BLM riots spread it too. Why the selective outrage for Trump rallies ?

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## Beidou2020

48 hours until US descends into civil war.


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## 大汉奸柳传志

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1323092344053354498I think there will be lots of looting on Tuesday night regardless of the outcome

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1322928899920154625


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## Beidou2020

Neither side will accept the election results. The US is about to be dragged into a mess.


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## Loki

Election will be decided by SCOTUS as in 2000. PA and NC will go to the wire and then litigation starts. Final decision not for weeks may be month. Chaos civil unrest and looting will follow. What a sad state of a great democracy. Country is clearly divided in Red and Blue and both think they are right and other is a moron. 
Dr Fauci will be fired either party win.


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## LeGenD

To lighten the mood...









US election 2020: Trump and Biden pictured through the years


The political and personal lives of the candidates over seven decades.



www.bbc.com

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## VCheng

I voted this morning. I have never seen lines this long within a few minutes of the polling station being opened. No matter what the result, the participation of such a large number of people indicates their involvement in the democratic process, and that alone is reason for the enduring values of the system.

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## KAL-EL

Standing in a decently sized voting line as I write this.

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## F-22Raptor

Happy Election Day, great to see the nation exercising the democratic process. I voted early!

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## RabzonKhan

Hurray, that looks like a good start. 

*Biden wins vote in tiny Dixville Notch, NH*

Democratic nominee Joe Biden on Tuesday won all five votes in the presidential election in Dixville Notch, a tiny New Hampshire town near the Canadian border known for being one of the first places in which residents cast their ballots. 

The minuscule township only has 12 residents as of the 2010 census.

A lifelong Republican named Les Otten cast the first vote in Dixville Notch and explained his decision to back the Democrat in a now-viral video that quickly raked in more than 1.1 million views.

"I don't agree with him on a lot of issues, but I believe it's time to find what unites us - not what divides us," Otten said. "It's time to rebuild the heart of what makes us a great country. That starts with electing leaders of character who are truthful and who will put the country's welfare above all else and who will show respect for all people regardless of their gender, their race, their religion or their political beliefs." *Source*

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## Yankee-stani

I voted early like a few days back this years elections is the first time early voting has been implemented in New York I waited close to 3 hours just to vote but NY isn't a swing state it's a deep blue state with pockets of red in the NYC suburbs

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## RabzonKhan

I voted on Sunday, sorry that you guys have to wait in long lines to vote.

That’s how we vote in Washington State.

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## Yankee-stani

*HABBENING: US Elections 2020
by-Anatoly Karlin*

The last election I watched with a Russian friend at the London School of Economics student room in 2016. The cope and seethe amongst those rootless cosmopolitans was out of this world, as the only Trump supporters in the room it was like being the physical embodiment of trollface.jpg.
I don’t expect to see a repeat of such scenes this time round. If Trump manages to clinch the south (FL-NC, probably AZ), as I expect him to, then the interest will shift over to the slow counting Rust Belt swing states. So, we probably can’t expect to see scenes of “literally shaking” SJWs or seething MAGA chuds tonight. But I suppose we’ll see soon enough.
***
*Trump Endorsement*
I am obviously much less personally invested in American political outcomes than when I lived in the US from the late 2000s to 2016. I don’t really get the people who are _super_ enthusiastic about either candidate (well, apart from the TDS/PDS/Russiagate people, but I find them to be an alien species in general). Biden and Harris are neolib Establishment, more regressive than HRC in 2012, whose concessions to the “Chapo” wing of the coalition are going to be predominantly symbolic. Trump’s sovereigntist rhetoric was stymied not just by the machinations of the Deep State, but by his own personal laziness and ineffectiveness. I believe that either candidate as President will face massive governance challenges, as polarization grows even deeper. Should Biden triumph, the neolib center that he represents, which has no genuine political passion in its support – apart from TDS, which will become a non-factor once the Bad Orange Man is put out to pasture – will be assaulted by populists from the Right and Left.
That said, Trumperino is certainly much more entertaining, and even intermittently manages to put up a roadblock to SJWism, so I would certainly support him as an American if without the enthusiasm of 2016*.
However, as a Russian now living in Russia and planning to remain in Russia for the foreseeable future, I am obviously much less concerned about US domestic policy and more interested in the knock on effects on the international scene.
And the thing is, relative to the halcyon days of late 2016, the gap between Trump and the Democratic candidate is now much less wide.
Although Trump is personally well-disposed to Russia, and this has even been echoed by some of the smarter neocons who have become cognizant of the fact that China is the real long-term threat to US hegemony, in practice the fake Russiagate scandal jointly orchestrated by the Deep State and British intelligence has blocked any reset in US-Russian relations. Sanctions against Russia have been deepened, though they remain manageable. The US has provided lethal arms to Ukraine (if in quantities too low to make any material differences). Sanctions against Nord Stream have delayed but not blocked its construction, functionally diverting a few billion dollars from the Russian to the Ukrainian treasury. Consulates have been closed, people to people ties have been reduced. As I pointed out, for all the Russia hysteria, Trump has in practice done much more for the Israelis, Gulf Arabs, and Turks, in that order; the peoples of those countries have consequently “awarded” him with sharply increased approval ratings, a phenomenon that has not been observed in Russia, where Trump is vastly preferred to Biden but less overwhelmingly so than he was relative to HRC in 2016.
Indeed, some Russian analysts who lean towards the West even claim that Biden might be better for Russia, since the dialing down of Russiagate hysteria is a _sine qua non_ of restoring some semblance of constructive relations. This is a questionable view, since many of the people Biden is expected to staff his the State Department with are ideologically driven Russophobes. Another consideration is that Biden is widely viewed as someone who can “heal” the Transatlantic relationship and who will be more friendly with China; since international relations are in many cases zero-sum, this will be bad for Russia, as it will reduce its freedom of maneuver. But even with respect to this, things are hardly crystal clear. The Europeans might huff and puff about Trump, but so far they have not had the political will to move out of the US orbit and assume a more independent course – is there any reason they will do otherwise in a second Trump term? As for China, the election of Biden may well prove to be a poisoned chalice, as the election of Trump turned out for Russia. Considering that the decision to implement the Great Bifurcation seems to be a bipartisan one that is endorsed by the Deep State, there is an excellent chance that people more competent than Boomer Bannon and his gaggle of anti-CPC jokers will manufacture a “Sinogate” to keep Biden on the straight and narrow.
One final consideration is that the slide of American society into total Wokeness and #BLM discourse suggests that a further distancing of Russia from the US and Western society in general may well be in Russia’s own interests (e.g. imagine a Biden win gives Twitter the confidence to finally ban RT from its platform – at that point, there’s a good chance Russia will start blocking Western social media, which is a tool of American espionage and ideological subversion). After six years of accumulating sanctions, Russia is much less vulnerable to Western economic pressure, so the economic costs of any further Biden sanctions should be relatively modest – and in any case worth the cost of arresting the seepage of “Woke Capital” into Russia. And this is all assuming that the Biden administration will even have time for Russia. As per above, I expect a Biden win to deepen internal American contradictions – not easen up on them (universal lesson here: Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it). The US may well be simply too preoccupied with internal problems to wreck much havoc in the international arena – embittered Trumpists who believe that the election was “stolen” from them (perhaps overspilling into secessionist sentiments), newly confident and angry Chapos eager to aggressively confront “the libs” over fiscal retrenchment in the wake of coronavirus-related stimulus spending and transfer of wealth to the oligarchs.
Consequently, FWIW, I “endorse” Trump for the Presidency, if with a great deal more caveats than in 2020.
***
*Archive of US Elections 2020 Posts*


PREDICTIONS: US Elections 2020
Audacious Epigone also has a predictions thread

Russian Elections Pundits Bet on Biden. (FWIW).
If the World Voted in the US Elections…
Russians Would (Unenthusiastically) Vote for Trump
US Elections 2020: Preliminary Comments/Thoughts
Biden, King of the Boomers?
The Orange and the Vegetable
Some outside articles that I found to be particularly interesting and/or informative:

Richard Hanania: Election Polling: A Scientific Success Story
Richard Spencer: The Blue Period
akinokure’s blog for those seeking white pills wrt the Trump campaign
***
Memories from 2016:

The live Open Thread from 2016
Trump Train Converges to c (pretty cringe reading it now).
***
* *Side note*: Even from a governance perspective, while Trump failed on coronavirus, so did virtually every other country outside the East Asia region. I do not think a standard Dem administration would have done any better – the early opposition to masks was universal, and they were less aggressive about barring international travel. There are precisely two Dem candidates who I expect to have done significantly better: UBI-friendly, ethnic Chinese rationalist Andrew Yang and high-IQ technocrat Michael Bloomberg. But no good cause to think Biden or the DNC NPCs around him would have been better. Indeed, considering that white countries have proven to be fundamentally unserious about suppressing Corona – none of them ever countenanced centralized quarantine, which played a key role in East Asia’s stunning success – letting it rip through the population steadily, as has happened in the US (and Russia) over the summer, was in retrospect a superior strategy to reactive European policies, which consisted of hard suppression through lockdown, then a relaxation, then a sharp second spike necessitating a second round of expensive lockdowns. At the end of the day, it is the Europeans who are getting the worst of both worlds, trashing both their GDP and having no fewer excess deaths than the Americans.
















HABBENING: US Elections 2020


The last election I watched with a Russian friend at the London School of Economics student room in 2016. The cope and seethe amongst those rootless cosmopolitans was out of this world, as the only Trump supporters in the room it was like being the physical embodiment of trollface.jpg. I don\'t...



www.unz.com


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## RabzonKhan

If you haven’t voted yet, I want to remind you that this election is too important for anyone to sit on the sidelines. The future of our democracy is on the line. Please go out and vote today!


----------



## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Hurray, that looks like a good start.
> 
> *Biden wins vote in tiny Dixville Notch, NH*
> 
> Democratic nominee Joe Biden on Tuesday won all five votes in the presidential election in Dixville Notch, a tiny New Hampshire town near the Canadian border known for being one of the first places in which residents cast their ballots.
> 
> The minuscule township only has 12 residents as of the 2010 census.
> 
> A lifelong Republican named Les Otten cast the first vote in Dixville Notch and explained his decision to back the Democrat in a now-viral video that quickly raked in more than 1.1 million views.
> 
> "I don't agree with him on a lot of issues, but I believe it's time to find what unites us - not what divides us," Otten said. "It's time to rebuild the heart of what makes us a great country. That starts with electing leaders of character who are truthful and who will put the country's welfare above all else and who will show respect for all people regardless of their gender, their race, their religion or their political beliefs." *Source*



That's hilarious. 12 residents!?

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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> If you haven’t voted yet, I want to remind you that this election is too important for anyone to sit on the sidelines. The future of our democracy is on the line. Please go out and vote today!



Ain't that the truth, regardless of the outcome!

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## RabzonKhan

*Trump's stock market performance falls short of Obama's *



*S&P 500 performance over presidents’ first term*
Percent change from the last trading day before inauguration to the end of October in their 4th year.

President Trump has presided over a stock market surge since taking office in 2017, but he's been outpaced by three of his four predecessors.

*By the numbers: *The S&P 500 grew by 44.5% since Trump's inauguration through the end of October 2020. This comes up short of former President Obama's 66.1% through the comparable time period, but well above the -15.8% for former President George W. Bush.

Trump's market performance also trails Obama in terms of the Dow Jones Industrial Average, although it tops Obama when it comes to the Nasdaq.

*Context:* Obama took office in the midst of an economic recession, so much of his S&P 500 performance was a rebound from the depths. Trump inherited a bull market that continued to rampage, outside of a brief dip early in the pandemic.

*Be smart:* The S&P 500 measures how investors view the health of large American companies, not how healthy the American economy may or may not be.


*Obama
+66.1%

Clinton
+62.1%
+50

H.W. Bush
+45.9%

Trump
+44.5%

Reagan
+23.6%
+25

Carter
+22.7%

Nixon
+9.4%
0

W. Bush
-15.8%*


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## Elvin

RabzonKhan said:


> If you haven’t voted yet, I want to remind you that this election is too important for anyone to sit on the sidelines. The future of our democracy is on the line. Please go out and vote today!
> 
> View attachment 685328



I have never voted in the US before even though I have been living here for 20 years. I am, however, going to vote for the first time today when I get off work. I do want to say that I am not a fan of either candidate, but I just can't bring myself to vote for Biden. After all of the corruption he and his son are involved in and the 47 years in politics, the prison laws he supported which locked up millions, I just don't know why anyone would vote for Biden. Also, who wants higher taxes? Mind you, under Trump no new wars were started, many were avoided, and troops are coming home, booming economy (minus COVID), prison reform, etc. He did things that TRULY matter to the people. Under Obama I felt like this country had no leader, I didn't have a sense to it at all, but under Trump you know who the leader is and what is actually happening.

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## Gomig-21

Look at this nitwit. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1323716121598578690
How many people died of covid under his incompetent watch and he's inventing some clown dance?!

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## RabzonKhan

So far, no surprises in President election. Though, so far, the results in Ohio, Florida and North Carolina are not looking good for Biden. On the other hand, Early results from Arizona are looking quite good for Biden.

On the Senate side, Democrat Hickenlooper has flipped a Colorado Senate seat by defeating Sen Cory Gardner.

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## crankthatskunk

After short speech by Biden that they are having good vibes about Pen and other battle ground states.

Trump has come up with a twit. This was called back but then re-instated by Trump team.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1323864823680126977

Is there a chance that Trump refuses to accept the results of the elections and refuses to leave the "White House"!!


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## KAL-EL

Nuclear codes will immediately be changed

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## hunter_hunted

Sounds more and more like Pakistani election. maen nahi manta ,mujhe na manzoor ha , Establishment ki sazish ha


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## Hareeb

Agents ko bahir nikal kr votes per thappay laga rahe hain- Trump Shareef

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## TNT

Seems trump is winning but the liberals cant digest it and are halting the process and adding new ballots.


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## crankthatskunk

After this tweet, in last few minutes he has delivered a short notice through the TV appearance , asking the Supreme Court to interfere and stop the counting of the votes. 

The postal votes still to be counted. All the counts earlier were for the votes cast today. 
The postal votes in most battle ground states are still not counted. 
The commentators think that in some important states Biden can catch up Trump on the basis of these postal votes. 

Trump is fearful of that. That's why he has decided to ask SC to interfere. 
Already people are calling him disrespectful to American system.


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## KAL-EL

As I said in another thread, Trump in my opinion went to far.

He sounded very authoritarian

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## Cherub786

Looks like the Democrats policy of strict lockdowns and enforcing social distancing has backfired on them. It's affected vote counting in urban, heavily Democratic areas of the battleground states. Trump is taking advantage of the irregular delay and threatening to appeal to the Supreme Court to stop the vote counting.
Democrats thought they had an advantage in this year's elections because of how the federal government handled Covid, with some 200 thousand deaths, but the truth is, Americans are more frustrated with the stupid lockdowns that are affecting their livelihoods.
You see, people don't really care if 200 thousand strangers, mostly old people, have died from a disease, but they do care if you force them to close their business or inconvenience them in any way with stupid rules regarding mandating of masks and 6 meters apart etc.


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## donkeykong

Trump already dividing america lol


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## Menthol

I don't know why the media hate Trump so much like Trump is the greatest threat even before he proves himself.

Even though he did a great job handling USA economy, immigrant issue, one of the USA president that is not declared war on other countries, as well as organizing a good relationship between Israel and neighboring countries, 

He is still being treated like he is still wrong and supposed to be removed as fast as possible.

In this world and history, there's no president as slandered, mocked, and humiliated as Trump... even before he proves himself.

Because of this, he even invented the term of Fake News.

He did a great job based on my fair judgment.


I wonder what is the thing that I don't know but the media know it??

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## F-22Raptor

Biden with all the momentum

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## Philosopher

If Biden manages to keep WI, MI and NV then it's over. But things are still too close.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Dhandli ... and Dharna USA here it comes . Nawaz Sharif Style


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## Taimoor Khan

hunter_hunted said:


> Sounds more and more like Pakistani election. maen nahi manta ,mujhe na manzoor ha , Establishment ki sazish ha




Indeed and I am enjoying it. 

However, there is certainly some hanky panky going on. Trump dislike American deep state and feeling is mutual. 

Here is American deep state poster boy, John Bolton having a go against his former boss.


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## Aspen

Enjoy this clip of our new President speaking candidly about Indian Americans

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## ZeEa5KPul

This farcical election has been a delight to watch. American democracy: a contemptible system for a contemptible people.


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## masterchief_mirza

Thank you. Come again!

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## casual

ZeEa5KPul said:


> This farcical election has been a delight to watch. American democracy: a contemptible system for a contemptible people.


America was never a democracy.


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## Bengal71

-=virus=- said:


> Lovely, all 771of them
> 
> https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...rowd-of-771-people-in-365-cars-in-atlanta/now
> 
> beat this:
> View attachment 684699
> 
> 
> This man is going to crush sleepy Joe in a landslide !



How is landslide looking mate?

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## beijingwalker

*Dozens arrested as protests erupt across U.S. cities*


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## tower9

Tbh the deep state intervened to hand Biden this election.

Trumpers on suicide watch.

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## atan651

Let the war begins!

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## Clutch

Second American civil war????

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## powastick

We should sanction US for not having free and fair elections.

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## YeBeWarned

On Paper Biden looks good, but he will be a puppet in the hands of far left .. far left extremists are crazy just as Far right crazies , America is on the path to become more intolerant about the opinion of opposition , same as when Trump was in Power far lefts opinions were met with hostilities , now as the leadership is in hands of so called Progressives such as Kamala and biden, now anyone who disagree or even post a tweet against the far left will be castrated from the society , we have seen this from time to time as anyone who comment their disagreement on LGBTQ+ or men's allowed to enter women bathroom's because of them transgender they lost their jobs immediately and brushed as Homo/transphobic .


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## tower9

YeBeWarned said:


> On Paper Biden looks good, but he will be a puppet in the hands of far left .. far left extremists are crazy just as Far right crazies , America is on the path to become more intolerant about the opinion of opposition , same as when Trump was in Power far lefts opinions were met with hostilities , now as the leadership is in hands of so called Progressives such as Kamala and biden, now anyone who disagree or even post a tweet against the far left will be castrated from the society , we have seen this from time to time as anyone who comment their disagreement on LGBTQ+ or men's allowed to enter women bathroom's because of them transgender they lost their jobs immediately and brushed as Homo/transphobic .


No. Biden and Kamala are centrist conservatives, they are puppets of the deep state establishment and are trusted by them. The far left idiots are like attack dogs who are unleashed every once in a while when they are useful

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## beijingwalker

*Iran's supreme leader mocks U.S. democracy*
AFPStaff
Published Thursday, November 5, 2020 8:32AM EST


TEHRAN, IRAN -- Iran's supreme leader has mocked the rancorous aftermath of election day in the United States, saying that the vote has exposed the reality of U.S democracy.

Well over 24 hours after the last polling stations closed in the US state of Alaska, the battle for the White House remains undecided.

U.S. President Donald Trump has caused disquiet among even leaders of his own Republican Party by flatly alleging fraud, while his Democratic challenger Joe Biden's campaign team has accused the incumbent of seeking to deny the electoral rights of tens of thousands of postal voters.


"What a spectacle!" supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei tweeted late Wednesday.

"One says this is the most fraudulent election in U.S. history. Who says that? The president who is currently in office.

"His rival says Trump intends to rig the election! This is how #USElections & U.S. democracy are."

The deepening polarization of US politics since Trump's surprise election victory four years ago has drawn expressions of concern even from Western allies, with Germany warning of a "very explosive situation" in the aftermath of the poll.

Despite U.S. allegations that Tehran sought to use social media to influence voters in the run-up to polling day, Iran's leadership has publicly insisted it favours neither candidate, despite their sharply divergent policies towards Tehran.

Trump has led a campaign of "maximum pressure" against the Islamic republic, pulling Washington out of a multilateral deal on Iran's nuclear programme and reimposing crippling unilateral sanctions.

Biden has signalled he is ready to rejoin the landmark nuclear agreement struck in 2015 when he served as vice president under Trump's predecessor Barack Obama.

But on Tuesday, Khamenei insisted the outcome of the election would have no impact on Iranian policy.









Iran's supreme leader mocks U.S. democracy


Iran's supreme leader has mocked the rancorous aftermath of election day in the United States, saying that the vote has exposed the reality of U.S democracy.




www.ctvnews.ca

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## YeBeWarned

Ironic coming from a theocratic Mullah ..

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## Chakar The Great

Iran ?? A dictator state , criticising US is a joke.

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## beijingwalker

*'Disgrace' and a 'mess': Africans taken aback by U.S. election turmoil*
By Loucoumane Coulibaly, Saliou Samb
NOVEMBER 5, 2020

ABIDJAN/CONAKRY (Reuters) - For some Africans, President Donald Trump’s actions in the aftermath of the U.S. election have been a cause for dark humour, while others reacted with dismay or disbelief.

In countries whose own recent elections were marred by accusations of cheating and violence, some expressed concern about what signal Trump’s premature declaration of victory, allegations of fraud and flurry of lawsuits might send to their own leaders.

“Trump is setting a bad example for Africa and a country like ours. You cannot proclaim yourself in an election where you are a candidate when justice exists,” said Mory Keïta, a car parts dealer in Guinea.

Dozens of people were killed in protests before and after the West African country’s president won a contested third term last month.

“It’s a total disgrace,” said Bachir Diallo, a Guinean mining executive. “Such a mess is worthy of a banana republic.”

As Democrat Joe Biden edged closer to victory over President Donald Trump, others felt a sharp sense of irony seeing events play out in a developed nation whose authorities regularly admonish African leaders for not respecting democratic norms.

Trump, who during the long and rancorous campaign attacked the integrity of the American voting system, has alleged fraud without providing evidence, filed lawsuits and called for at least one recount.

When the U.S. Embassy in Guinea’s neighbour Ivory Coast called on Wednesday for dialogue and commitment to the rule of law following another disputed presidential election, some people took umbrage.

“I believe the playground response is ‘why you talking about yourself?’” one Twitter user wrote.


“They tell us about democracy, it’s simply a hoax. They don’t mean it,” said Maurice Nandasaba, as he caught up with friends near a newsstand in Kenya’s capital Nairobi.

Some who followed the U.S. election found positives in what was happening across the Atlantic.

“It’s calm, and there is no violence,” said Viviane Asseke, a schoolteacher in Ivory Coast, where more than 10 people have died in clashes since the president won a third term that opponents consider unconstitutional.

“It makes you want to vote.”


But more people were disappointed.

“You would think we’re in Africa when you see Trump’s behaviour,” said Ange Kouame, 23, a student in Ivory Coast’s main city, Abidjan.

“It is terrifying to see this in America,” said Tito Kisiya, a sales executive in Tanzania, whose presidential election last week drew criticism from U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

In Africa’s most populous nation Nigeria, where Trump has many admirers, some were critical of his actions.

“A soothsayer does not need to tell us that the America we are looking at as a model in everything is not even a model when it comes to electioneering,” said Agbor Elemi, a consultant in Lagos.










'Disgrace' and a 'mess': Africans taken aback by U.S. election turmoil


For some Africans, President Donald Trump's actions in the aftermath of the U.S. election have been a cause for dark humour, while others reacted with dismay or disbelief.




www.reuters.com


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## beijingwalker

*'Disgrace' and a 'mess': Africans taken aback by U.S. election turmoil*
By Loucoumane Coulibaly, Saliou Samb
NOVEMBER 5, 2020

ABIDJAN/CONAKRY (Reuters) - For some Africans, President Donald Trump’s actions in the aftermath of the U.S. election have been a cause for dark humour, while others reacted with dismay or disbelief.

In countries whose own recent elections were marred by accusations of cheating and violence, some expressed concern about what signal Trump’s premature declaration of victory, allegations of fraud and flurry of lawsuits might send to their own leaders.

“Trump is setting a bad example for Africa and a country like ours. You cannot proclaim yourself in an election where you are a candidate when justice exists,” said Mory Keïta, a car parts dealer in Guinea.

Dozens of people were killed in protests before and after the West African country’s president won a contested third term last month.

“It’s a total disgrace,” said Bachir Diallo, a Guinean mining executive. “Such a mess is worthy of a banana republic.”

As Democrat Joe Biden edged closer to victory over President Donald Trump, others felt a sharp sense of irony seeing events play out in a developed nation whose authorities regularly admonish African leaders for not respecting democratic norms.

Trump, who during the long and rancorous campaign attacked the integrity of the American voting system, has alleged fraud without providing evidence, filed lawsuits and called for at least one recount.

When the U.S. Embassy in Guinea’s neighbour Ivory Coast called on Wednesday for dialogue and commitment to the rule of law following another disputed presidential election, some people took umbrage.

“I believe the playground response is ‘why you talking about yourself?’” one Twitter user wrote.


“They tell us about democracy, it’s simply a hoax. They don’t mean it,” said Maurice Nandasaba, as he caught up with friends near a newsstand in Kenya’s capital Nairobi.

Some who followed the U.S. election found positives in what was happening across the Atlantic.

“It’s calm, and there is no violence,” said Viviane Asseke, a schoolteacher in Ivory Coast, where more than 10 people have died in clashes since the president won a third term that opponents consider unconstitutional.

“It makes you want to vote.”


But more people were disappointed.

“You would think we’re in Africa when you see Trump’s behaviour,” said Ange Kouame, 23, a student in Ivory Coast’s main city, Abidjan.

“It is terrifying to see this in America,” said Tito Kisiya, a sales executive in Tanzania, whose presidential election last week drew criticism from U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

In Africa’s most populous nation Nigeria, where Trump has many admirers, some were critical of his actions.

“A soothsayer does not need to tell us that the America we are looking at as a model in everything is not even a model when it comes to electioneering,” said Agbor Elemi, a consultant in Lagos. 









'Disgrace' and a 'mess': Africans taken aback by U.S. election turmoil


For some Africans, President Donald Trump's actions in the aftermath of the U.S. election have been a cause for dark humour, while others reacted with dismay or disbelief.




www.reuters.com

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## Hamartia Antidote

It's all because of the Wuhan virus. People voting by mail this year. Only allowed to start counting the millions on election day.


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## Unite & Defend

Trump is getting shafted.


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## beijingwalker

Hamartia Antidote said:


> It's all because of the Wuhan virus. People voting by mail this year.
> 
> View attachment 686008


The virus now can be earliest traced back to Spain and US virus was from Europe, not China and you spread virus by yourselves by dismissing it as common cold, by simply wearing masks you could've saved thousands of lives but you guys chose not to, the stupidity is just beyond words.

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## Indus Pakistan

beijingwalker said:


> "What a spectacle


I tell you what is going to be a spectacle. Iranian *retardness*. Trump had done a favour to Iran. It had exposed the US deep state hostility to Iran. This would despite all the pain it inflicted on Iran push her closer to China and build up a long term, strategic, stable relationships with a emerging superpower.

If Biden wins he is gonna play the* good cop* and wean Iran again on Washington. You will have Tehran again going soft and opening trade deals with India, trade deals with EU, trade deals with USA. This will again push China away from Iran.

Then down the road at another election cycle another US admin will come along play the *bad cop *routine again. Iran will again get a kick up their behinds and the whole thing will play again. Iran is caught in this ground hog day of good cop/bad cop routine. 

It reminds me of the guy who was asked as punishment what he wanted. 100 lashings or 100 raw onions to eat. He chose the latter but after dozen of raw onions he cried for "lashings please". Of course after dozen raw onions he cried "onions please". Result he got 100 lashings and 100 onions.

This is Iran. But with retarded mullahs running it this is what you get ........

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## beijingwalker

*Fears of civil unrest across the United States as the Presidential vote count drags out *





*NYC unrest | Protesters clash with police as they demand all votes to be counted*


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## H!TchHiker

Have been listening why american deep state is against trump ? 
Any how trump should not accept this ..he must fight till end 😃


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## SalarHaqq

Indus Pakistan said:


> I tell you what is going to be a spectacle. Iranian *retardness*. Trump had done a favour to Iran. It had exposed the US deep state hostility to Iran.



Well brother, it has been nearly 41 years since Iranian revolutionaries stormed America's so-called embassy in Tehran (in fact a spy nest), leading to a complete interruption of bilateral diplomatic relations, which has lasted to this day. The founders of the Islamic Republic were perfectly aware of US designs against Iran, and so are their heirs, naturally. Resistance against US imperialism is even one of the foundational cornerstones of Iran's entire political system.

So Trump wasn't the one to expose American hostility to the Iranian leadership.



> This would despite all the pain it inflicted on Iran push her closer to China and build up a long term, strategic, stable relationships with a emerging superpower.



It's not Iran that is standing in the way of deeper strategic ties with China, but the relative interconnectedness of the Chinese and US economies. To be more exact, the importance of US and other western markets for China's hitherto largely export-oriented model of economic development.

Entering a full, overt strategic alliance with Iran = getting sanctioned by the US regime and seeing one's companies barred from doing business in America. China can't afford this, and understandably so. But this might change in the future.



> If Biden wins he is gonna play the* good cop* and wean Iran again on Washington. You will have Tehran again going soft and opening trade deals with India, trade deals with EU, trade deals with USA.



Apart from the purchase of passenger aircraft - a sector where China is not yet offering alternatives to western manufacturers, and where Iran had an urgent requirement given its ageing fleet, nothing of significance was done with the US. And Boeing never honored the agreement anyway.

Concerning the EU, Iran has always been willing to trade with them, regardless of who's in charge in Washington.

But the point here is that China remained Iran's major trade partner even after the 2016 nuclear agreement. It'll become apparent if you look up Iran's foreign trade data There never was a big shift towards the west in terms of business relations - let alone politically, where bilateral conflicts continued unabated.

Even so, why would China object to Iran conducting business with other nations? No country limits its economic relations to a single partner afterall. China herself has an enormous volume of bilateral trade and investment with the US, EU, Australia, Canada and so on - the list even includes Iran's arch-foe, the zionist entity, as well as every one of Iran's regional competitors. This hasn't affected nor disrupted Beijing's economic relations with Iran though.

As far as I know China never strongly objected to another country trading with India. It is itself doing some business with them.



> This will again push China away from Iran.



Any removal of sanctions will in fact automatically boost economic exchange between Iran and China, at least as much if not more so than Iran's trade with the west.

That's why Beijing has been such a steady supporter of the Iran nuclear deal reached under the Obama administration.



> Then down the road at another election cycle another US admin will come along play the *bad cop *routine again. Iran will again get a kick up their behinds and the whole thing will play again. Iran is caught in this ground hog day of good cop/bad cop routine.
> 
> It reminds me of the guy who was asked as punishment what he wanted. 100 lashings or 100 raw onions to eat. He chose the latter but after dozen of raw onions he cried for "lashings please". Of course after dozen raw onions he cried "onions please". Result he got 100 lashings and 100 onions.
> 
> This is Iran. But with retarded mullahs running it this is what you get ........



I agree with your description of the US regime as a fake "democracy", where Republican and Democrat administrations engage in a sort of alternating roleplay, but will in reality pursue the same ultimate goals.

It seems you're misreading the Iranian system however, which contrary to the American one is genuinely pluralistic - or democratic, if you prefer. Indeed, there's no stupidity on the part of Iranian decision makers: it's just that there are broadly two factions with truly differing agendas and outlooks in the Iranian political system. Revolutionaries loyal to the founding principles of the Islamic Republic on the one hand; and liberal reformists / centrists on the other. They have opposed aims but cohabitate within the same polity.

While the former, led by Iran's Supreme Leader himself, remain largely in control of the core of the system, they must nonetheless make some concessions to the latter, depending on their respective political fortunes, which in turn are determined by a set of internal and external circumstances, as well as by the stages of the game of chess these factions are mutually involved in.

When you see Iran appearing to be somewhat more flexible in her negotiations with the west, it's simply that the reformists and/or centrists are temporarily having the political upper hand in this regard. When on the contrary you see more intransigence from Iran, it's that the traditional revolutionaries are managing to contain reformists and centrists.

Iranian decision makers neither contradict their own selves nor are they naive. They are, however, of differing persuasions, and the elections as well as their internal political competition determines which current will get to shape policies and to what extent. What Seyyed Khamenei has been doing succesfully - managing all these competing currents while at the same time making sure that Iran will stay on a path of continued development and resiliance against her existential enemies, requires quite the political astuteness.

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## jamal18

SalarHaqq said:


> It has been nearly 41 years since Iranian revolutionaries stormed America's so-called embassy in Tehran (in fact a spy nest), leading to a complete interruption of bilateral diplomatic relations, which has lasted to this very day. The founders of the Islamic Republic were perfectly aware of US designs against Iran, and so are their heirs, naturally. Resistance against US imperialism is even one of the foundational cornerstones of Iran's entire political system.
> 
> Trump certainly wasn't the one to expose American hostility to the Iranian leadership.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not Iran that is standing in the way of deeper strategic ties with China, but the relative interconnectedness of the Chinese and US economies. To be more exact, the importance of US and other western markets for China's hitherto largely export-oriented model of economic development.
> 
> Entering a full, overt strategic alliance with Iran = getting sanctioned by the US regime and seeing one's companies barred from doing business in America. China can't afford this, and understandably so. But this might change in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> Apart from the purchase of passenger aircraft - a sector where China is not yet offering alternatives to western manufacturers, and where Iran had an urgent requirement given its ageing fleet, absolutely nothing of significance was done with the US. And Boeing never honored the agreement anyway.
> 
> As for the EU, Iran has always been trading with them, regardless of who's in charge in Washington.
> 
> But the point here is that China remained Iran's major trade partner even after the 2016 nuclear agreement. I'd recommend to look up Iran's foreign trade data. There never was a big shift towards the west in terms of business relations - let alone politically, where bilateral conflicts continued unabated.
> 
> Even so, why would China object to Iran conducting business with other nations? No country limits its economic relations to a single partner afterall. China herself has an enormous volume of bilateral trade and investment with the US / EU / Australia / Canada and so on - the list even includes Iran's arch-foe, the zionist regime, as well as every one of Iran's regional competitors. This hasn't affected nor disrupted Beijing's economic relations with Iran though.
> 
> Likewise, China never strongly objected to another country trading with India as far as I know. It is itself doing business with India.
> 
> 
> 
> Any removal of sanctions will in fact automatically boost economic exchange between Iran and China, at least as much if not more so than Iran's trade with the west.
> 
> That's why Beijing has been such a steady supporter of the Iran nuclear deal reached under the Obama administration.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with your description of the US regime as a fake "democracy", where Republican and Democrat administrations engage in a sort of alternating roleplay, but will in reality pursue the same ultimate goals.
> 
> It seems you're misreading the Iranian system however, which contrary to the American one is genuinely pluralistic - or democratic, if you prefer. Indeed, there's no stupidity on the part of Iranian decision makers: it's just that there are broadly two factions with truly differing agendas and outlooks in the Iranian political system. Revolutionaries loyal to the founding principles of the Islamic Republic on the one hand; and liberal reformists / centrists on the other. They have opposed aims but cohabitate within the same polity.
> 
> While the former, led by Iran's Supreme Leader himself, remain largely in control of the core of the system, they must nonetheless make some concessions to the latter, depending on their respective political fortunes, which in turn are determined by a set of circumstances, as well as by the stages of the game of chess these factions are mutually involved in.
> 
> When you see Iran appearing to be somewhat more flexible in her negotiations with the west, it's simply that the reformists and/or centrists are temporarily having the political upper hand in this regard. When on the contrary you see more intransigence from Iran, it's that the traditional revolutionaries are managing to contain reformists and centrists.
> 
> Iranian decision makers neither contradict their own selves nor are they naive. They are, however, of differing persuasions, and the elections as well as their internal political competition determines which current will get to shape policies and to what extent. What Seyyed Khamenei has been doing succesfully - managing all these competing currents while at the same time ensuring Iran's continued development and resiliance against her existential enemies, requires quite the political astuteness.


Excellent post.

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## RabzonKhan

Bengal71 said:


> How is landslide looking mate?


For some weird reason, Trump and many of his supporters wrongly think that his big rallies just show how popular he is, but the fact is, Hillary won the popular vote by almost 2.9 million and so far, Biden has a lead of almost 3 million votes.


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 686071
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For some weird reason, Trump and many of his supporters wrongly think that his big rallies just show how popular he is, but the fact is, Hillary won the popular vote by almost 2.9 million and so far, Biden has a lead of almost 3 million votes.



I don't even think those last pics that dude Virus posted were from Trump rallies. Those were taken downtown in some cities or something like that and he never held rallies in downtowns of big cities during the day?! Those looked more like peaceful protests or something of the sort. I think he tried to pull a fast one on us and got caught! And what a crappy username, too! lol


-=virus=- said:


>



He's trying to claim these are Trump supporters at a Trump rally?!?!? loLoloo! I don't think so!

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## Beidou2020

Well planned deep state operation to give Biden the win no matter what the voters did. I knew when the media didn’t do many October surprises to attack Trump relentlessly the weeks before the election. Because they US deep state (intelligence agencies, media, etc) knew they didn’t need any October surprises. Their plan was this from the start.

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## RabzonKhan

Trump wanted to stop the vote-counting in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Georgia, where he was ahead, but wants it to proceed in Arizona, where he’s behind. What a freaking sore loser and a hypocrite. 






Trump's supporters protest in front of the Capitol building in Harrisburg, Pa., on Thursday.Mark Kauzlarich / Reuters
Just like their hypocrite sore loser leader, Trump followers want to stop the vote-counting in Pennsylvania.







Republican Rep. Paul Gosar and other “patriots,” some of them armed (few of them masked) mobbed the Maricopa County Tabulation and Election Center in downtown Phoenix on Wednesday evening, demanding that the votes in the presidential election be counted.


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump wanted to stop the vote-counting in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Georgia, where he was ahead, but wants it to proceed in Arizona, where he’s behind. What a freaking sore loser and a hypocrite.



You should hear him now during his press conference claiming all the mail in ballots are all fraudulent! Talk about a sore loser and a pathetic human being! Absolutely disgusting this guy can't go away fast enough! Oooof!

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## El Sidd

He doesn't use twitter.


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## RabzonKhan

I’m pretty sure Biden is going to win Pennsylvania and Nevada. He also has 60% chance of winning Arizona and Georgia. North Carolina I’m not so sure.

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## F-22Raptor

That was one of the most sad and pathetic displays in politics I’ve ever seen. Trump should be ashamed of himself.

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## Cherub786

I just hope a Biden administration doesn't resurrect Obama's failed policies and try to go back to the negotiation table with Tehran.
Trump was totally right in cancelling JCPOA. He was right that the terms of the deal were much too favorable for Iran. Obama should have extracted so many more concessions from them, the most essential being for Iran to withdraw itself from all its foreign adventurism and financing of proxies that are destabilizing the Middle East.


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## cloud4000

Trump and the GOP did better than I thought. Proof that the pundits and the polls were wrong again. Yes, Biden might win but only by a whisker. GOP did better in House elections and it looks like it will retain control of the Senate.

If I had to guess why this happened, I would say it's a backlash against the Antifa and BLM protestors. Many people -- especially independents -- perceived the Democrats to condone their behavior. Plus, Democrats are always considered weak on law and order.

That's my two-cents/

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## hualushui

Hamartia Antidote said:


> It's all because of the Wuhan virus. People voting by mail this year. Only allowed to start counting the millions on election day.
> 
> View attachment 686008


An anti-intellectual American makes excuses for his incompetence

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## Menthol

I don't know who is rigging the USA election.

Trump or others?


For now, Trump is protesting the result of the election.

It looks like it's Trump.


But if we look back, since the beginning of Trump took the office, Trump has been demonized and disgraced.

That is why the term of Fake News appears.

That lead into the downfall of Trump today.


So, who is actually rigging the USA election?


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## beijingwalker

*A divided U.S. is a 'sign of weakness' to rivals like China: Expert*


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## 52051

As a investor I fellow the US election news, and it seems to me despite of fact Joe Biden is getting this one, the country will be divided even further, and a republican-controlled senate wont help.

He will be a very weak president, can do barely nothing, at best he could manage to bring the virus down in his term and/or still manage to hold the US together, they could be the best legacy I could think of about him.

Many of the americans here believe current level of division in the country means nothing since Americans have survived worse, I beg to differ:

Any division happened before in the US, at least the politicians maintain certain degree of understanding and agreement, so it is only mostly the conflicts between commoners and fake fight between politicians from different parties, so the system is somewhat stable.

But not this time, the US politics has become so polarized such that each party have already been hijacked by radicals', so the conflicts and division are starting from leaders of the parties, it is unthinkable to look like the language they used to describe their opponents now, even enemy state's politicians will be treated with more respect.

Not saying that US is heading for a massive civil war, but you are in unknown waters.

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## beijingwalker

*US results: Trump sons attack Republicans for 'weak' backing*
Published1 hour ago





*President Donald Trump's two sons have rebuked Republicans for failing to back the president as he struggles to win re-election.*
Mr Trump's eldest son Don Jr accused the party of being "weak". His brother Eric warned: "Our voters will never forget you if your [sic] sheep!"
The spat reflects an emerging rift between Trump disciples and the party.

The election still hangs in the balance but Democratic candidate Joe Biden appears to be closing in on victory.

Mr Trump has vowed to mount legal challenges to the vote-counting process after claiming, without evidence, that there is widespread voter fraud.
Senior Republicans such as Utah Senator Mitt Romney and Maryland Governor Larry Hogan have warned he is undermining the democratic process.


But Don Jr, who is thought to have political aspirations of his own, reserved his ire for those who may be eyeing up a presidential run in 2024.
He wrote on Twitter: "The total lack of action from virtually all of the '2024 GOP [Republican] hopefuls' is pretty amazing.

"They have a perfect platform to show that they're willing & able to fight but they will cower to the media mob instead. Don't worry @realDonaldTrump will fight & they can watch as usual!"

The tweet was in response one from Mike Cernovich, a men's rights activist and Trump supporter, who had criticised the president's former UN ambassador, Nikki Haley.
She is widely thought to be preparing a White House bid in 2024.

Mr Trump Jr continued: "Republicans have been weak for decades which has allowed for the left to do these things."
His brother, Eric, tweeted: "Where are Republicans! Have some backbone. Fight against this fraud. Our voters will never forget you if your [sic] sheep!"


The two men went on to name and praise Republicans they deemed to have been vocal in defence of their father.

Other Trump backers also piled on and took aim at Ms Haley in particular. Matt Gaetz, a Florida congressman, tweeted: "While some of us are fighting for President Trump... Nikki Haley is eulogising him. Sad!"

In his four years in politics, Mr Trump has managed to bend the Republican party to his will, consistently achieving above 90% approval ratings from self-identified party members.

The party manifesto this year was scrapped and replaced by a pledge to "support the president's America-first agenda".

This row between the Trumps and the party establishment will raise questions about which direction the party goes after Trump departs, whether that is in 2020 or 2024.









US results: Trump sons attack Republicans for 'weak' backing


Donald Trump Jr accuses the rising stars of the party of "cowering to the media mob".



www.bbc.com


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## Titanium100

The Republicans were never fan of Trump it was not due to personal reasons but rather professional reasons. His a businessman who didn't have political ties or have a career as a politician. He was also being very unpolitical in the way he expresses himself online or in his interviews so many of them didn't like him from early on but I guess alot of them have warmed up to him somehow but I am surprised by the lack of support that is being claimed here


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## tower9

Most of the mainstream Republicans are part of the deep state and they are in on this plot. They're just playing dumb while Donny bleeds to death from the knife in his back.

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## Titanium100

tower9 said:


> Most of the mainstream Republicans are part of the deep state and they are in on this plot. They're just playing dumb while Donny bleeds to death from the knife in his back.



This.. Thread /

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## Salza

Republicans got all those seats in Senate because of Trump.


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## Sharma Ji

Wow what a nail-biter. 







So as things stand, even without the Trump camp initiating legal proceedings by claiming states that have been officially called for Biden (Michigan, Wisconsin).. should Trump win Georgia, North Carolina and Pennsylvania, he'll be at 265 electoral votes to Biden's 264.

What happens if that happens ?


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## KAL-EL

I think it’s quite humorous that Trump wants some states to keep counting and others to stop counting.

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## Globenim

Ironic how the U.S.A. is the most vocal in attempts to discredit legitimacy of Irans government.

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## PakFactor

dharmi said:


> Wow what a nail-biter.
> 
> View attachment 686161
> 
> 
> So as things stand, even without the Trump camp initiating legal proceedings by claiming states that have been officially called for Biden (Michigan, Wisconsin).. should Trump win Georgia, North Carolina and Pennsylvania, he'll be at 265 electoral votes to Biden's 264.
> 
> What happens if that happens ?



House of Representatives vote for President with majority state being required (in this scenario Republicans control more house delegates). Senate votes for Vice President.

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## beijingwalker

*Democracy can fail anywhere, even in America*
Trump’s suggestions that he will not accept defeat puts the country’s values under unprecedented strain
GIDEON RACHMAN 
NOVEMBER 2 2020 


The US has long rejoiced in the title “leader of the free world”. The American presidential election was the ultimate example of democracy in action. But we are about to witness an election night like no other. People around the world will be acutely attuned not just to the vote tally, but to any sign that the results are going to be contested in the courts or on the streets. The failure of democracy is something most Americans thought happened only in foreign lands, but democracies can fail anywhere. 

Painful lessons learnt from the nation’s own faltering efforts at “democracy promotion” abroad could also apply in the US. One common idea is that democracy is about more than voting. If election results are not to be undermined or overturned, democracy also requires a free media, a strong civil service, independent courts, a secure constitutional framework and — perhaps most important of all — a democratic culture in which the election losers will accept defeat.

All of these things used to be taken for granted in the US. But perhaps no longer. The willingness of Donald Trump to accept defeat is clearly in question. The president has repeatedly suggested that he will not acknowledge a result that he deems “rigged”. Many Democrats believe Mr Trump’s complaints are simply a front for his own plans to steal the election. Talk of a rigged or stolen election is dangerous. As recent experience in Belarus demonstrates, if millions of people believe an election is fraudulent they can take to the streets — leading to social paralysis or political violence. 

Rage at a stolen election is one reason why democracies collapse. But if the costs of losing seem too high, then the willingness to accept defeat — even if the vote is fair — can also disappear. Both Republicans and Democrats sometimes talk as though the very survival of the US, or of the communities they represent, are at stake in this vote. Some senior Republicans have begun to say out loud that the survival of the values and system they cherish is more important than democracy itself. 

Senator Mike Lee of Utah recently tweeted: “Democracy isn’t the objective; liberty, peace, and [prosperity] are. We want the human condition to flourish. Rank democracy can thwart that.” Watching these events unfold, some US diplomats fear that political pathologies they once thought were confined to failing democracies overseas, are appearing at home. 

Philip Gordon, a senior official in the Barack Obama administration, recalls trying to persuade Egyptian generals and officials of the Muslim Brotherhood to coexist within the same political system. He was rebuffed. Both sides in Egypt saw each other as an existential threat, to be defeated at all costs and by any means necessary. Now Mr Gordon fears the same winner-takes-all logic is undermining American democracy. Worryingly, even the simplest step in the process — the voting itself — looks flawed and ramshackle. People across the US have been forced to queue for hours to vote early. In several states, the Republican party has deliberately made voting more difficult, particularly for racial minorities. 


The inconsistent patchwork of state rules about how people can vote — and how those votes are counted — is a recipe for confusion. Mr Trump’s repeated allegations that mail-in ballots are open to fraud lays the ground for him to dispute the results. It is therefore entirely possible that, as in 2000, the election result will end up being settled by the Supreme Court. That possibility underlines the crucial importance of an independent judiciary in a democratic system. But the unseemly rush to get an ultra-conservative new justice, Amy Coney Barrett, appointed to the court before the vote risks making the country’s highest judicial body look like just another instrument of partisan politics. Mr Trump has hinted heavily that he hopes that Ms Barrett will tip any ruling on the election in his direction.


In 2000, Al Gore, the Democratic candidate, was prepared to accept a 5-4 Supreme Court ruling against him and in favour of the Republican George W Bush. There were no significant public protests. But it seems unlikely that the Democrats would passively accept another court-inflicted defeat if they regard Republican complaints as bogus and the court as “packed”. Democratic party outrage would be accentuated if Mr Trump had lost the popular vote, but gained victory through the electoral college, which tallies votes on a state-by-state basis.

That system, which used to seem like a charming historical quirk, now looks increasingly like a device to thwart majority opinion. Combine it with the over-representation of small, Republican-leaning states in the Senate — which, in turn, confirms Supreme Court judges — and you have a recipe for a crisis of legitimacy in US democracy. Any such development would also be a profound crisis for American allies and admirers.

The country’s claim to be “leader of the free world” is not just a piece of vainglorious self-congratulation. The world’s democracies do indeed look to the US for support, leadership and inspiration. When efforts at democracy promotion fail in Egypt or Iraq it is a tragedy for the country concerned. If democracy fails in the US, it will be a global tragedy.

https://www.ft.com/content/65ff77d2-9a25-4eb7-91f7-6d04c15de395

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## vi-va

Western democracy is not democracy at all. It's just one man one vote. It doomed to fail. When Mass decide the fate of the nation, the nation is finished.

Real democracy is not about the procedure, but the substance.

The western model nowadays is *Delegate Model of Representation. *It cannot be functional properly.
The Chinese model is *Trustee Model of Representation*.

This is the difference. If anyone interested, please refer to *Edmund Burke (1723–1792)* .

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## atan651

Democracy is more akin to racism in America.

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## Sharma Ji

Democracy is not perfect but America has a strong healthy and vibrant one. A bit of election drama doesn't mean their democracy is failing, not even close. Bush and Gore also contested an election dispute in the supreme court. 

Trump will 100% accept whatever the supreme court decides if it comes to that.

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## vi-va

Republicans just can NOT wait to dump tRump

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## LeGenD

No political system is perfect.

Democracy grant political representation to the masses and is a better representation of their take on things domestic and abroad.

Centralization can deliver results but at the expense of democratic considerations and resultant soft power.

There are countries where democracy will not deliver results nevertheless. However, counting USA in this list is utter folly.

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## powastick

LeGenD said:


> No political system is perfect.
> 
> Democracy grant political representation to the masses and is a better representation of their take on things domestic and abroad.
> 
> Centralization can deliver results but at the expense of democratic considerations and resultant soft power.
> 
> There are countries where democracy will not deliver results nevertheless. However, counting USA in this list is utter folly.


USA is on that list for a long time, and Trump is not the cause but a symptom. The people needs were ignored while corporation interested is protected. Their system even distrust scientist because in democracy ignorance is as good as your knowledge.

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## thesolar65

The OP and its country even don't know the real meaning of Democracy and pointing at others & finding fault..

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## beijingwalker

thesolar65 said:


> The OP and its country even don't know the real meaning of Democracy and pointing at others & finding fault..


The OP? GIDEON RACHMAN sounds like a western name.

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## Chhatrapati

Whatever democracy be, the only thing that has consistently failed is Communism. More countries are becoming democratic, or democratic form of government is becoming a norm.

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## beijingwalker

Chhatrapati said:


> Whatever democracy be, the only thing that has consistently failed is Communism. More countries are becoming democratic, or democratic form of government is becoming a norm.


Soviet style communism failed, but communism doesn't have an all agreed standard, China's is the most successful system consistently brings positive results.

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## Taimoor Khan

About time this non sense and over hyped so called democracy should be put in its place and people minds all over the world, rewired with a software update, that it is not the best thing ever since slice and bread as it has been made out to be. 

Whatever system suites a nation, according to its own internal dynamics, culture, faith and history, is the right system for that nation.

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## Chhatrapati

beijingwalker said:


> Soviet style communism failed, but communism doesn't have an all agreed standard, China's is the most successful system consistently brings positive results.


There have been different styles of Communism, almost all of them have failed or are failing. With Communist countries are seen as a threat in the democratic world, I don't see a future in Communism, unlike you, more countries switched to democracies. The Chinese system is anything but positive. We'll see in a few years the results.

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## Menthol

I'm just waiting for other countries to bomb USA in the name of democracy and human rights.

What a mess.

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## Imran Khan

its not democracy is failing its USA failing and falling apart

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## beijingwalker

Chhatrapati said:


> There have been different styles of Communism, almost all of them have failed or are failing. With Communist countries are seen as a threat in the democratic world, I don't see a future in Communism, unlike you, more countries switched to democracies. The Chinese system is anything but positive. We'll see in a few years the results.


India democracy is a disaster for the past 70 years and now it seems US is joining you.


Chhatrapati said:


> The Chinese system is anything but positive. We'll see in a few years the results.


China lifted over 800 million people out of poverty, unrivalled by anyone in the whole human history, if this is not positive, I don't know what is.

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## jamahir

dharmi said:


> Democracy is not perfect but America has a strong healthy and vibrant one.



Will America's military-industrial complex allow the Occupy movement and the Communist Party of the USA to attain governorship of the country ?



Chhatrapati said:


> Whatever democracy be, the only thing that has consistently failed is Communism. More countries are becoming democratic, or democratic form of government is becoming a norm.



Is India a true democracy ?

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## vi-va

jamahir said:


> Will America's military-industrial complex allow the Occupy movement and the Communist Party of the USA to attain governorship of the country ?
> 
> 
> 
> Is India a true democracy ?


Imo, India was Nehru dynasty for about 40 years, until 1990s. After that a period of chaos. Then Indians are tired of Congress, overthrown them and get BJP in charge. 
BJP is kind of strong ideological, Hindutva religion nationalism. Kind of dangerous and Nazi type. We will see.

Democracy or not, imo, it doesn't matter that much. India is dysfunctional and disorganized society.

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## Sharma Ji

jamahir said:


> Will America's military-industrial complex allow the Occupy movement and the Communist Party of the USA to attain governorship of the country ?


It's not for the military industrial complex to allow occupy or commies or Islamists or anyone else to attain governorship. 

They are a democracy, it is for the American people to decide who to vote for. They have a handful of "democratic socialists" in congress, and one in the senate who made national headlines in 2 Presidential races but lost out eventually (people didn't vote for Burny in the democratic process) 

Who knows, maybe some day they will flip the system and go full socialist or something..


vi-va said:


> Imo, India was Nehru dynasty for about 40 years, until 1990s. After that a period of chaos. Then Indians are tired of Congress, overthrown them and get BJP in charge.
> BJP is kind of strong ideological, Hindutva religion nationalism. Kind of dangerous and Nazi type. We will see.
> 
> Democracy or not, imo, it doesn't matter that much. India is dysfunctional and disorganized society.


50 plus years of Nehru dynasty rule overall before we got sick of them. 

The BJP is right wing nationalist + capitalist + pro America/west, pro business, streamline the bureaucracy, regulation cuts, strong on terror etc

The opposition is left leaning Congress + parties (some are further left), more socialist, anti America (in principle, not for stronger military ties but still pro business), a little anti Hindu identity, weak on terror and security challenges like Kashmir.

Hindutva is more cultural nationalism than religious, and those are just internal wedge issues of India concentrated in some parts. Hindutva doesn't factor in to any big policy decisions.

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## thesolar65

"CAN".....Can fail, but not yet. But we have seen countless authoritarians, dictatorships, communism, Socialism, fascism, kingdoms fail. and we have seen what happened to those and what will happen to the biggest of them all....you know what I mean?....


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## beijingwalker

thesolar65 said:


> "CAN".....Can fail, but not yet.


India

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## paritosh

vi-va said:


> Western democracy is not democracy at all. It's just one man one vote. It doomed to fail. When Mass decide the fate of the nation, the nation is finished.
> 
> Real democracy is not about the procedure, but the substance.
> 
> The western model nowadays is *Delegate Model of Representation. *It cannot be functional properly.
> The Chinese model is *Trustee Model of Representation*.
> 
> This is the difference. If anyone interested, please refer to *Edmund Burke (1723–1792)* .


The underlying assumption is that the masses can never be at a base level of intellectual capacity where they can make good governance decisions. I don’t agree with that, it is true that countries with poor education levels dont understand democracy and waste it, but the US is at a level where it’s not that big an issue.


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## Sharma Ji

beijingwalker said:


> India


how has it failed here ?


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## beijingwalker

dharmi said:


> how has it failed here ?


After 70 years of democracy, the country is still the most hungry nation on this planet, I wouldn't term it as a success.

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## Rana4pak

In democracy both good n evil are equall . Democracy is not good for every country


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## AViet

A politically naive system, which make a Harvard professor equal to a drug-addicted thug, who would rather care about how to get $100 for his next dose than the future of his country, in deciding its leader, is doom to fail. It is like a big company whose chairman and CEO are selected by voting from all of its 100,000 employees, most of whom do not know and do not care who is who and what the company current and future business are.

The system can only work with limited success in a highly homogeneous and developed societies like Japan, Korea, Taiwan and some small North European countries (before they accept immigrants), not in multicultural and relatively low-IQ societies like the US or Brazil.

I do not advocate for dictatorship, but against it. My preference is a meritocracy, limited democratic system, which China, Vietnam and some other countries are practicing (not related to communism). It has proved historically far more superior than any other systems.

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## Sharma Ji

beijingwalker said:


> After 70 years of democracy, the country is still the most hungry nation on this planet, I wouldn't term it as a success.


We're a lot better off than 70 years ago.

Indian democracy has not failed.


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## beijingwalker

dharmi said:


> We're a lot better off than 70 years ago.
> 
> Indian democracy has not failed.


The human race is better off than 70 years ago, this is for sure, but India is still the hungriest people on this planet ranking next to bottom on almost all human development index lists, please call it a success.

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## jamahir

dharmi said:


> It's not for the military industrial complex to allow occupy or commies or Islamists or anyone else to attain governorship.



The fact remains that the military-industrial complex wants to perpetually keep earning the monies by retaining those governments who wage imperialist wars around the world.

Tell me, how different is the Democrats party from the Republicans ? Obomba won for the Democrats, was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for some strange reason and then in 2011 began war against Libya and Syria. The Bush family of the Republicans did the same against Iraq.

The rest of the American bureaucratic system keeps the American public pacified through basketball games, muscle cars, barbaric "games" like WWE and boxing, silly Hollywood action films like Fast and Furious, propaganda films like Rambo and The Dictator, and a general sense that USA is superior.

There are so many homeless people in USA yet the government maintains a hugely expensive military to invade Libya where housing was the basic human right of every person. Doesn't that sound ridiculous ? And who is imminently threatening to invade USA ?



dharmi said:


> They have a handful of "democratic socialists" in congress



I don't understand what "democratic socialists" means ? Tell me what it is in theory and in practice ?



vi-va said:


> Then Indians are tired of Congress, overthrown them and get BJP in charge. BJP is kind of strong ideological, Hindutva religion nationalism. Kind of dangerous and Nazi type.



If the Indian middle class, who is BJP's main constituency, was merely tired of the Congress it would have asked loudly for other alternatives : the Leftists or for the new Centrist party AAP ( Aam Aadmi Party ) which is currently ruling Delhi state.

Though the first PM, Nehru, wanted Indians to develop Scientific Temper, he unfortunately left behind an education system where the technical facts are provided without much humanities studies. Result is the citizens, especially middle class, who are not empathetic about the so many injustices and tragedies in the country especially in the last 20 years. For example, if in another big country 300,000+ farmers had committed suicide in a span of ten years, for socio-economic reasons, the youth would have risen in revolt against the system. Sadly not here in India. Yes, Indian youth in the earlier decades had conscience like during the rise of the Naxalite ( Maoist) movement in the 1960s which was about bringing justice to oppressed peasants in Bengal. But most Indian youths now would rather keep their head down, go to college, get some job, get married and of course be extremely religious ( be more so than 15 to 20 years back ).

The great change in Indian society began in the 1980s with the Ram Temple movement of the Hindutvadis and this slowly built up to the current state where the various religious communities became ghettoized to various levels. This is why 73 years after our supposed Independence there is not much of inter-religion marriage. In fact currently there is active opposition to it from the national ruling party.

Lastly, I will present a contradiction : opposition among a lot of the middle class to the progressives / intellectuals and religion-driven banging of eating plates to drive away Corona on the orders of Modi, like this mad woman.

Yes, I agree that India may seem to run but it is a dysfunctional country.

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## Sharma Ji

beijingwalker said:


> The human race is better off than 70 years ago, this is for sure, but India is still the hungriest people on this planet ranking next to bottom on almost all human development index lists, please call it a success.


You can keep trolling all you want but democracy is the system we chose and it has served us well and works for us so far.

People have real representation and get to elect their chosen candidate. That is what democracy promises, not some utopia where the state replaces god or the family. 

It has it's flaws, as do all other systems of governance. Do you really believe China is perfect in how the CCP rules ? 

btw, I do admire Chinese style authoritarianism in certain aspects, not so much in other aspects.


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## beijingwalker

dharmi said:


> You can keep trolling all you want


Which part of my comment is not right?


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## jamahir

dharmi said:


> We're a lot better off than 70 years ago.



I am reminded of something some Indian ultra-nationalists used to say : "America got electricity for its people in a few hundred years but India got electricity in decades". Is this logical ?



dharmi said:


> Indian democracy has not failed.



In practice India is a demagogy.

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## Sharma Ji

jamahir said:


> The fact remains that the military-industrial complex wants to perpetually keep earning the monies by retaining those governments who wage imperialist wars around the world.
> 
> Tell me, how different is the Democrats party from the Republicans ? Obomba won for the Democrats, was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for some strange reason and then in 2011 began war against Libya and Syria. The Bush family of the Republicans did the same against Iraq.
> 
> The rest of the American bureaucratic system keeps the American public pacified through basketball games, muscle cars, barbaric "games" like WWE and boxing, silly Hollywood action films like Fast and Furious, propaganda films like Rambo and The Dictator, and a general sense that USA is superior.
> 
> There are so many homeless people in USA yet the government maintains a hugely expensive military to invade Libya where housing was the basic human right of every person. Doesn't that sound ridiculous ? And who is imminently threatening to invade USA ?












Obama was a total establishment deep state stooge, hardly an independent thinker/doer. The man was a showpiece, controlled by the same deep state Clinton Bush deeply embedded interests. Trump republicans are different. 

and they want to get rid of this "evil" man  

Wrestling/hollywood and cars and guns and bbq is just their cultural thing. I think they're cool.. what government on earth will give it's subjects the right to keep and bear arms.. to safeguard against a tyrannical government no less ? HIghest level of individual freedom anywhere on earth, America is great.. what are you even talking about ? 

As the most successful country (so far), they have a duty to maintain a global military presence. All their wars in the middle east have been aided by other muslim countries in the region. 

Have they made mistakes ? sure.. big ones even, but they're not an evil empire like you commies like to believe.



jamahir said:


> I don't understand what "democratic socialists" means ? Tell me what it is in theory and in practice ?


In the current American context, senator Sanders, congresswoman AOC and squad etc.. this: https://www.dsausa.org/


beijingwalker said:


> Which part of my comment is not right?


I live here. 

No, we're not all starving and poor and destitute. 

Yes, we do have problems. 

and yes, our democracy works. 

your comments come off as very condescending, which is par for this forum but I try and engage with you anyway. 

you have PDF virus lol


jamahir said:


> I am reminded of something some Indian ultra-nationalists used to say : "America got electricity for its people in a few hundred years but India got electricity in decades". Is this logical ?


Where did I say anything of the sort ? 

We ARE much better off as a country than we were 70 years ago just post Independence from the Raj. This is objective reality. 



jamahir said:


> In practice India is a demagogy.


No, we're a democracy. BJP fascism fears are overblown and not reality but that is to be expected from the left and other opposition such as Islamists.

What suddenly flipped in 2014 when we elected Modi ? Nothing. 

Why would the Ghandy dynasty rule over us for 50+ years if most of the country were "irrational prejudiced people" ?


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## RabzonKhan

Biden took a small lead of 918 votes over Trump in Georgia. Ironically Biden’s lead came from Clayton County, the late John Lewis’ home district.









As was widely expected, Biden inches ahead of Trump in Pennsylvania. Biden now leads with little more than 5000 votes.

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## vi-va

paritosh said:


> The underlying assumption is that the masses can never be at a base level of intellectual capacity where they can make good governance decisions. I don’t agree with that, it is true that countries with poor education levels dont understand democracy and waste it, but the US is at a level where it’s not that big an issue.


Totally disagree.
Education or not doesn't matter at all. 

I have degree of science but it doesn't guarantee I can understand society or politics. I learn politics all by myself when I was 30s. Politics was not my cup of tea at all during my school time.

US and EU has high education rate, but their people are still brainwashed like 99% of Indians.

Chinese media in contrast seldom made up stories, we seek wisdom from truth and truth only. Chinese understand US society much better from a distance.

Chinese are educated with dialectics philosophy and traditional value, instead of neo-liberal trash or neo-conservative. It's so clear to us that US is on the wrong track decades ago.

It's not about education, it's about how the politics manipulate the MASS. Even the majority of people are educated with degree, it means little.

*The average IQ of MASS is around 100. To be a good political leaders, you need very high IQ and EQ, much higher than 140.

Lee Kuan Yew graduated from Cambridge University with a double starred-first-class honours in law. 

Lee Hsien Loong was the Senior Wrangler (ranked 1st in the Math Tripos) at Cambridge. He scored 31 alphas*, 12 more alphas than the runner up. A senior wrangler is the top mathematics undergraduate at Cambridge and is one of the greatest intellectual achievements attainable in Britain.

That's how meritocracy works in Singapore. This is traditional Confucius Value, and we pick the best of the best in thousands in China.

While, you see the senate of US? All of them are bunch of idiots.*


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## raptor22

vi-va said:


> Western democracy is not democracy at all. It's just one man one vote. It doomed to fail. When Mass decide the fate of the nation, the nation is finished.


Mass must decide the fate of the nation otherwise it'd be a form of dictatorship. & what you mean it is one man one vote? what is the alternative?


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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

vi-va said:


> Western democracy is not democracy at all. It's just one man one vote. It doomed to fail. When Mass decide the fate of the nation, the nation is finished.
> 
> Real democracy is not about the procedure, but the substance.
> 
> The western model nowadays is *Delegate Model of Representation. *It cannot be functional properly.
> The Chinese model is *Trustee Model of Representation*.
> 
> This is the difference. If anyone interested, please refer to *Edmund Burke (1723–1792)* .


The primary flaw of the model is the elective process... a clown circus where right things must be said to the right crowd and whoever takes one more vote takes it all... is it really representative much less merit based? Can the right guy win if he cannot please the crowds? And delivery is much further away...

Just like any critical field leadership is and should be a selective process... all politics being local must be kept at that level and as such, representation. Leaving deliverance of only select assignments at the top for best and brightest. We all have our pursuits and passions and not all of us either fit nor excel in all departments, some are better than others. Remove, glorified past, wealth, theatrics from the incumbents...


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## paritosh

vi-va said:


> Totally disagree.
> Education or not doesn't matter at all.
> 
> I have degree of science but it doesn't guarantee I can understand society or politics. I learn politics all by myself when I was 30s. Politics was not my cup of tea at all during my school time.
> 
> US and EU has high education rate, but their people are still brainwashed like 99% of Indians.
> 
> Chinese media in contrast seldom made up stories, we seek wisdom from truth and truth only. Chinese understand US society much better from a distance.
> 
> Chinese are educated with dialectics philosophy and traditional value, instead of neo-liberal trash or neo-conservative. It's so clear to us that US is on the wrong track decades ago.
> 
> It's not about education, it's about how the politics manipulate the MASS. Even the majority of people are educated with degree, it means little.
> 
> *The average IQ of MASS is around 100. To be a good political leaders, you need very high IQ and EQ, much higher than 140.
> 
> Lee Kuan Yew graduated from Cambridge University with a double starred-first-class honours in law.
> 
> Lee Hsien Loong was the Senior Wrangler (ranked 1st in the Math Tripos) at Cambridge. He scored 31 alphas*, 12 more alphas than the runner up. A senior wrangler is the top mathematics undergraduate at Cambridge and is one of the greatest intellectual achievements attainable in Britain.
> 
> That's how meritocracy works in Singapore. This is traditional Confucius Value, and we pick the best of the best in thousands in China.
> 
> While, you see the senate of US? All of them are bunch of idiots.*


Ok there is a lot to unpack here. Receiving an education is broader than earning a degree. You don’t need to earn a specialisation in politics in order to decide which policy manifesto aligns to your needs. I mean, elections in a democracy are on the broad basic principle that the voter needs to be told what your value prop as a potential candidate is, the voter reads your manifesto and makes up their mind, while looking at other such manifestos. Your voters then track your performance while you are in power against the manifesto and then decide if you are worth putting in charge again or not. Now anyone who receives K-12 education, will be able to get through the steps mentioned in abridged version of the democratic process above. Some would have a higher more nuanced understanding, some will have just enough to understand broad aspects.
The simplification on the value prop, or the election promises is in the interest of those who seek to get elected. Hence a doctorate in politics is not required unless you want to become an analyst.
What you described seems very complicated for a large country. A large country also has to worry about universal representation. Each constituency needs a candidate that speaks for the people in that constituency and are a part of the common election framework. Selecting super-specialised candidates that provide universal representation is an enormous drain on the coffers and not sustainable. Basically, you can’t expect a significant quota of super specialised people in any country to be available to participate in a democratic process about not pursue their trade/profession. They can only be ‘selected’ in a non-democratic setup.


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## vi-va

jamahir said:


> The fact remains that the military-industrial complex wants to perpetually keep earning the monies by retaining those governments who wage imperialist wars around the world.
> 
> Tell me, how different is the Democrats party from the Republicans ? Obomba won for the Democrats, was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for some strange reason and then in 2011 began war against Libya and Syria. The Bush family of the Republicans did the same against Iraq.
> 
> The rest of the American bureaucratic system keeps the American public pacified through basketball games, muscle cars, barbaric "games" like WWE and boxing, silly Hollywood action films like Fast and Furious, propaganda films like Rambo and The Dictator, and a general sense that USA is superior.
> 
> There are so many homeless people in USA yet the government maintains a hugely expensive military to invade Libya where housing was the basic human right of every person. Doesn't that sound ridiculous ? And who is imminently threatening to invade USA ?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand what "democratic socialists" means ? Tell me what it is in theory and in practice ?
> 
> 
> 
> If the Indian middle class, who is BJP's main constituency, was merely tired of the Congress it would have asked loudly for other alternatives : the Leftists or for the new Centrist party AAP ( Aam Aadmi Party ) which is currently ruling Delhi state.
> 
> Though the first PM, Nehru, wanted Indians to develop Scientific Temper, he unfortunately left behind an education system where the technical facts are provided without much humanities studies. Result is the citizens, especially middle class, who are not empathetic about the so many injustices and tragedies in the country especially in the last 20 years. For example, if in another big country 300,000+ farmers had committed suicide in a span of ten years, for socio-economic reasons, the youth would have risen in revolt against the system. Sadly not here in India. Yes, Indian youth in the earlier decades had conscience like during the rise of the Naxalite ( Maoist) movement in the 1960s which was about bringing justice to oppressed peasants in Bengal. But most Indian youths now would rather keep their head down, go to college, get some job, get married and of course be extremely religious ( be more so than 15 to 20 years back ).
> 
> The great change in Indian society began in the 1980s with the Ram Temple movement of the Hindutvadis and this slowly built up to the current state where the various religious communities became ghettoized to various levels. This is why 73 years after our supposed Independence there is not much of inter-religion marriage. In fact currently there is active opposition to it from the national ruling party.
> 
> Lastly, I will present a contradiction : opposition among a lot of the middle class to the progressives / intellectuals and religion-driven banging of eating plates to drive away Corona on the orders of Modi, like this mad woman.
> 
> Yes, I agree that India may seem to run but it is a dysfunctional country.


Well summarized, thanks.

I am aware of the slow but steady religious Hindutva movement and the change of India society.

Look back to 50s, 60s. Both China, India and Africa are poor, far poorer than nowadays, but people are more politically passionate, and have faith that we can improve ourselves and get a better society. The intellectuals back then are aware of the danger of western penetration, the filth column.

Look at India now. Fully penetrated by western power, such as industry, media, NGOs, social media, pop culture, financial system, ideology, political science, education, language. India is not an independent country, but China is.

The average Indians look down upon themselves, more or less inferior mentality.

Please correct me if my observation is not true.

China trying to create a new world order. The current one was built by white and maintained for past 200 years. India as well as Russia have a major role of the new world order. But I am very pessimistic that India has a completely different world view.

By and large, India's fate is not decided in New Delhi. The power of India is wide spread across the nation, and world. The west has penetrated and hold quite a lot of leverage over New Delhi.


paritosh said:


> Ok there is a lot to unpack here. Receiving an education is broader than earning a degree. You don’t need to earn a specialisation in politics in order to decide on what policy manifesto aligns to your needs. I mean, elections in a democracy are on the broad basic principle that the voter needs to be told what your value prop as a potential candidate is, the voter reads your manifesto and makes up their mind, while looking at other such manifestos. Your voters then track your performance while you are in power against the manifesto and then decides if you are worth putting in charge again or not. Now anyone who receives K-12 education, will be able to get through the steps mentioned in abridged version of the democratic process above. Some would have a higher more nuanced understanding, some will have just enough to understand broad aspects.
> The simplification on the value prop, or the election promises is in the interest of those who seek to get elected. Hence a doctorate in politics is not required unless you want to become an analyst.


We all knew every US politicians are liars. They are very good at it. and still not be held accountable and reelected again and again.

We are knew most of Indian politicians are corrupted, deeply corrupted. They are very good at it.
Quite a lot of them are criminals to be specific, there are many legal cases against them. But still not be held accountable and reelected again and again.

The MASS are so dumb that they can be manipulated again and again. The wisdoms never comes from MASS, in opposite, great thinking and philosophy comes from a few intelligent heads.

The jobs is finding those intelligent heads. Entitle them and keep them accountable and responsible.


raptor22 said:


> Mass must decide the fate of the nation otherwise it'd be a form of dictatorship. & what you mean it is one man one vote? what is the alternative?


You can have MASS decide your nation fate, but to be honest no nation are doing that except those completely failed states.

In any society, the elites are very aware of the problems of MASS which are short-sighted, emotional, interest driven, etc. Those elites in all nations including Iran will try to control the MASS. and guide the MASS instead of handing out the power.

The so called western liberal democracy did exactly the same. But liberal democracy goes too far, and the MASS has too much power than it should be. That's the problem.

All in all, MASS should be ruled instead of ruling. But it's very important to make sure the MASS has the power to hold the government accountable and responsible. The MASS may not be wise, but at least they are not as evil as politicians. So they should be responsible and entitled for the power to keep government in check.

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## F-22Raptor

Biden has won the Presidency

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## RabzonKhan

dharmi said:


> Wow what a nail-biter.
> 
> View attachment 686161
> 
> 
> So as things stand, even without the Trump camp initiating legal proceedings by claiming states that have been officially called for Biden (Michigan, Wisconsin).. should Trump win Georgia, North Carolina and Pennsylvania, he'll be at 265 electoral votes to Biden's 264.
> 
> What happens if that happens ?


Sorry buddy, but you have got it all wrong. Biden has 253 electoral votes at present, not 264. The electoral map is from the Associated Press, the AP and the Fox news are the only ones who have called this race. Votes are still being counted in Arizona and there is a bleak chance Trump can overtake Biden’s lead.

You also forgot Nevada (6 electoral) and Alaska (3 electoral).

I strongly believe Biden is going to win Pennsylvania and Nevada and he is going to be our next president.

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## Sharma Ji

RabzonKhan said:


> Sorry buddy, but you have got it all wrong. Biden has 253 electoral votes at present, not 264. The electoral map is from the Associated Press, the AP and the Fox news are the only ones who have called this race. Votes are still being counted in Arizona and there is a bleak chance Trump can overtake Biden’s lead.
> 
> You also forgot Nevada (6 electoral) and Alaska (3 electoral).
> 
> I strongly believe Biden is going to win Pennsylvania and Nevada and he is going to be our next president.


Yeah, just going off of the goggle (AP) interactive map here. What's a more accurate source ?

Here's my 270towin thing I've been playing with, what did I miss ? 







President Sleepy Joe will be so boring  

Let's hope Trump can still pull this one off somehow.


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## Hamartia Antidote

LeGenD said:


> No political system is perfect.
> 
> Democracy grant political representation to the masses and is a better representation of their take on things domestic and abroad.
> 
> Centralization can deliver results but at the expense of democratic considerations and resultant soft power.
> 
> There are countries where democracy will not deliver results nevertheless. However, counting USA in this list is utter folly.



Plus this is just an aberration due to people having to open and count millions of mail in ballots due to Covid.

All the wankers making it look like this is some institutional issue.

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## RabzonKhan

dharmi said:


> Yeah, just going off of the goggle (AP) interactive map here. What's a more accurate source ?
> 
> Here's my 270towin thing I've been playing with, what did I miss ?
> 
> View attachment 686344
> 
> 
> President Sleepy Joe will be so boring
> 
> Let's hope Trump can still pull this one off somehow.


Okay, 270towin electoral map is correct, as I said, Biden has 253 and Trump 214.

The remaining states and their electoral votes:

Alaska. 3

Arizona. 11

Nevada. 6

Georgia. 16

North Carolina. 15

Pennsylvania. 20

If Biden only wins Pennsylvania and lose all other states, he’ll be Mr. Pres. of United States of America. 


F-22Raptor said:


> Biden has won the Presidency


Very soon it will be official!

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## Chhatrapati

jamahir said:


> Is India a true democracy ?


It is a true democracy. Next question.


beijingwalker said:


> India democracy is a disaster for the past 70 years and now it seems US is joining you.


How is it a disaster, did we devolve into more poverty from 1947? US is not joining anyone, all I see is China joining the Soviets. 


beijingwalker said:


> China lifted over 800 million people out of poverty, unrivalled by anyone in the whole human history, if this is not positive, I don't know what is.


What's next, China build an aircraft carrier? Soviets send satellites before the US. Lifting people our of poverty faster or slower pace has nothing to do with any of these. The fundamentals of democracy is stronger than any communist regimes, it stands the test of time and spreading with leap and bounds, it may be chaotic but that's in human nature, and hell a lot better than Zombies created by Communism.


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## Sharma Ji

NBC called it. 

Fox will probably dump Trump and call it too but some anchors might protest.


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## RabzonKhan

Biden has gained another thousand votes in Pennsylvania. Most of the mail-in ballots are now coming from Philadelphia and the next batch will soon start coming from Pittsburgh, both are Democrat strongholds.

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## jamahir

dharmi said:


>



I agree those two vids make sense.



dharmi said:


> Obama was a total establishment deep state stooge, hardly an independent thinker/doer. The man was a showpiece, controlled by the same deep state Clinton Bush deeply embedded interests.



I agree he was a showpiece along with Hillary Clinton, meant to show that America could now have Blacks and Women at the top-most position in the country whatever be the base thinking of those people. Remember Hillary's laughingly said "We came, we saw, he died" in 2011 ?



dharmi said:


> Trump republicans are different.
> 
> and they want to get rid of this "evil" man



Well, I never hated Trump though many others did. But he too is not the wisest of leaders ( though he was correct in your second vid ). For example, under his command America is pulling out of Afghanistan but the Taliban will be part of the coming governments there. Why couldn't America listen to Afghan progressives like the SPA ( Solidarity Party of Afghanistan ) and get them into the coming government ? Because the SPA is a leftist group.

So Trump may be better than the Bushes and Obomba but he too has something lacking.



dharmi said:


> what government on earth will give it's subjects the right to keep and bear arms



Switzerland, the Libyan Jamahiriya.



dharmi said:


> As the most successful country (so far), they have a duty to maintain a global military presence.



I don't understand this duty. Please explain.



dharmi said:


> All their wars in the middle east have been aided by other muslim countries in the region.



Well, though this is perhaps off-topic one has to think why these particular participant Muslim-majority countries didn't themselves get invaded by USA ( and NATO ).



dharmi said:


> In the current American context, senator Sanders, congresswoman AOC and squad etc.. this: https://www.dsausa.org/



Hmm, seems interesting.

I liked this they say :


> Capitalism pits us against each other


Very correct.

And this :


> and workplaces are fundamentally authoritarian unless workers can self-organize and build collective power. This is why people build unions, and why employers undermine them. It is also why the capitalists as a class constantly promote narratives about unions that frame them as unnecessary, undemocratic, or ineffective. We know better, and we’re building worker power in every region of the country.


reminds me of the time when some years ago I tried to build an employee union. Also, you will find it funny that the American company IBM has a union in America but IBM-India does not. We need to think why. Many middle-class white-collar Indian youth do not take social responsibility.




dharmi said:


> Where did I say anything of the sort ?
> 
> We ARE much better off as a country than we were 70 years ago just post Independence from the Raj. This is objective reality.



Part of the development is because the world itself has moved and part is because of the steps that Nehru, Ambedkar and comrades had taken.

Yet things like oppression against Dalits, women, peasants, Muslims, intellectuals remain.



dharmi said:


> No, we're a democracy. BJP fascism fears are overblown and not reality but that is to be expected from the left and other opposition such as Islamists.
> 
> What suddenly flipped in 2014 when we elected Modi ? Nothing.
> 
> Why would the Ghandy dynasty rule over us for 50+ years if most of the country were "irrational prejudiced people" ?



I will give an example of the change. Nowadays there are web series' in India with foul language. That is tolerated. But there are certain films that simply cannot be made. Can Jaane Bhi Do Yaaro with its final drama scene be made now ? Can a film portraying the Naxals in fairly critiquing light be made ?

Another example. What about inter-caste and inter-religion marriages ? Can these be done now without the right-wingers raising hue and cry ?

What about the open rallies in Jammu by BJP supporters in favor of the Kathua rape / torture culprit ? BJP raised hue and cry about the Palghar lynching but didn't raise voice in favor of Rohith Vemula.

In media trolls and warmongers like Arnab Goswami are being felicitated while good journalists are being harassed, arrested and their offices shutdown.

Lynchers are fearless.

All these things are now done openly, without fear of legal retribution.



Chhatrapati said:


> It is a true democracy. Next question.



I will continue with the same question.

India has so many political parties with so many conflicting political, social and economic views. Many quite regressive. 

Every five years there is the general election where the next central government is selected. People cast votes and the candidate of the party with the highest number ( majority ) of votes forms the government. Simple question, what about those people whose candidate and party did not win because his party got minority votes ? What if some of these latter citizens had good ideas for the country ? They have to wait for five more years to try to get their choice of party into government. Even then there might be chance that their candidate might not win and the one who wins could be through demagogy.

Now extend this unscientific system to the 28 states in India. What we have is chaos. 73 years of it.

Which is why we still have socio-economic ills in India like hunger deaths, suicides, homelessness, honor killing etc. All this in year 2020. Certain people had said that India would become a "superpower" by 2012 and then 2020. And here we are in 2020 having a migrant laborer woman dying of hunger at a railway station.

Have India's people ( your "democracy" maintainers ) made the right choices for 73 years ?

Contrast this with say the system that Libya had until 2011. Direct democracy tempered and guided by socialism. No hunger, no homelessness. Their political arrangement was called The Third Universal Theory aka Jamahiriya which you can read here. The Aam Aadmi Party ( AAP ) and Swaraj Abhiyan group in India have a somewhat similar system called Swaraj. The Libyan political system had no parties and no five-yearly government elections. The people ruled directly.


----------



## vi-va

Chhatrapati said:


> It is a true democracy. Next question.
> 
> How is it a disaster, did we devolve into more poverty from 1947? US is not joining anyone, all I see is China joining the Soviets.
> 
> What's next, China build an aircraft carrier? Soviets send satellites before the US. Lifting people our of poverty faster or slower pace has nothing to do with any of these. The fundamentals of democracy is stronger than any communist regimes, it stands the test of time and spreading with leap and bounds, it may be chaotic but that's in human nature, and hell a lot better than Zombies created by Communism.


Hitler was elected by one man one vote under Constitution of the Weimar Republic.


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## beijingwalker

Chhatrapati said:


> it stands the test of time and spreading with leap and bounds, it may be chaotic but that's in human nature, and hell a lot better than Zombies created by Communism.


Disciplines are one of the key factors for human success, besides, today's India is indeed a zombie state, see how many new infections you get daily.

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## Chhatrapati

jamahir said:


> Simple question, what about those people whose candidate and party did not win because his party got minority votes ? What if some of these latter citizens had good ideas for the country ? They have to wait for five more years to try to get their choice of party into government. Even then there might be chance that their candidate might not win and the one who wins could be through demagogy.


That's how it should be, let the majority decide what's best for all. There are a lot of good ideas, but workable ideas are pitched and if the public approves it, then they're the ones who win. Good or bad, you have to trust the system and there are checks and balances for such a system. Every other system runs on these checks and balances, be it Monarchy or Communist countries. To avoid demagogy we have more than one candidate, that is there are 540+ candidates in India. 



jamahir said:


> Which is why we still have socio-economic ills in India like hunger deaths, suicides, homelessness, honor killing etc. All this in year 2020. Certain people had said that India would become a "superpower" by 2012 and then 2020. And here we are in 2020 having a migrant laborer woman dying of hunger at a railway station.
> 
> Have India's people ( your "democracy" maintainers ) made the right choices for 73 years ?
> 
> Contrast this with say the system that Libya had until 2011. Direct democracy tempered and guided by socialism. No hunger, no homelessness. Their political arrangement was called The Third Universal Theory aka Jamahiriya which you can read here. The Aam Aadmi Party ( AAP ) and Swaraj Abhiyan group in India have a somewhat similar system called Swaraj. The Libyan political system had no parties and no five-yearly government elections. The people ruled directly.


We are in this peril because of the way we inherited this country and the following governments. There can be zero blame to the democracy for that, without democracy how do you plan to rule a country who speak a different language, have different religions and customs, who have varying social and economical levels? 

Give me one country that has no poor people. Poverty again is a result of bad choices you make or you are born poor and continue to stay that way due to millions of reasons. There is no utopia in the world, the best system so far that has been able to give a sense of belonging has been a democracy, no other system will give you that. The moment you vote, regardless if you are rich or poor is how you are reminded you are part of the process which decides the fate of the country by electing its rulers. And that's how it should be in a country like India. Jamahiriya system can be tested in townships like Auroville and see the results for yourself. For the rest of the country, democracy is fine.

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## GHALIB

beijingwalker said:


> The OP? GIDEON RACHMAN sounds like a western name.


what do china have with democracy ?
stay away from communism then talk .


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## Chhatrapati

vi-va said:


> Hitler was elected by one man one vote under Constitution of the Weimar Republic.


Stop reading internet stupidity. Hitler abolished the democratic form of government when he came to power, any ruler who abolishes democracy have no right to be called a democratically elected leader. He becomes a dictator.


beijingwalker said:


> Disciplines are one of the key factors for human success, besides, today's India is indeed a zombie state, see how many new infections you get daily.


A country that suppresses information losses its right to call out others using the free information available to the public. It's again like Hitler saying I am a democratically elected leader.


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## beijingwalker

GHALIB said:


> what do china have with democracy ?
> stay away from communism then talk .


Seeing a failing system, everyone can mock it.


Chhatrapati said:


> A country that suppresses information losses its right to call out others using the free information available to the public. It's again like Hitler saying I am a democratically elected leader.


India doesn't suppress information? Actually India kills more journalists than most countries in the world each year. Besides, you make tons of lies and rumors, your sources of information has zero credibility.

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## vi-va

Chhatrapati said:


> That's how it should be, let the majority decide what's best for all.



4 people sit around the table, decide how to divide the cake. 3 of them organized a party, and divide the cake into 3. The one who is minority can sit and applaud the western democracy.

What a bull$hit theory.

In India, the majority of Hindu made a party called BJP. They decide the divide the cake of India. The minority Muslim can applaud the western democracy and enjoy the Ram temple at razed mosque site.

This is called Tyranny of Majority. Which is the core of western democracy.


Chhatrapati said:


> Stop reading internet stupidity. Hitler abolished the democratic form of government when he came to power, any ruler who abolishes democracy have no right to be called a democratically elected leader. He becomes a dictator.
> 
> A country that suppresses information losses its right to call out others using the free information available to the public. It's again like Hitler saying I am a democratically elected leader.


How funny you are. Hitler was elected by the rules of election. Others can do it as well. Such as Modi and Trump.

As long as you gain enough power, you can do anything you want. Nothing can stop Hitler, nothing can stop Modi if he accumulate as much power as Hitler.

If Hitler can abolish democracy, Modi may be able to do it as well. The only obstacle is how much power Modi gained.

Actually Modi is on the way to gain as much power as Hitler. Do you know when Modi banned Chinese goods, he needs parliament approval? He did NOT. He just announced the ban on the TV and Twitter, that's it. No one dare to challenge Modi regarding parliament approval at all. Modi is the law.

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## 925boy

Chhatrapati said:


> Whatever democracy be, the only thing that has consistently failed is Communism.


Communist China disproves this.

Also. the main reason communism and socialism failed IN MY OPINION is consistent, aggressive interference by the US. Only China was able to overcome that, lets be honest.

Communist China is more successful than Democratic India. thats just the truth and hot tea.

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## Gomig-21

cloud4000 said:


> Political scientist professor who has correctly predicted every presidential election since 1984 says Biden will win in 2020.
> 
> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/allan-lichtman-presidential-election-accurate-prediction-trump-biden/
> 
> The election will be a close one and may even lead to legal troubles a la 2000.



You know what's funny? I've actually been telling quite a few people about this professor's prediction and how he has been correct on every election since 1984 including Trump in 2016 which that fact alone gave him a lot of consideration. Then all these friends of mine whom I've mentioned this to -- thanks to you bringing it up -- have all been reminding me of him since yesterday and I found it fascinating that they all remembered this and sort of held on to the thought in the back of their minds, I suppose to give them hope! lol! Imagine that? I guess the guy looks to have kept his impressive streak going.

We'll have to check in with his 13 point prediction eventually when the next election comes along.

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## RabzonKhan

Presidential election 2020. To win the election candidates needs 270 electoral votes.

Where things stand.

Six states are still counting their ballots:

Alaska (3 electoral votes), Arizona (11), Georgia (16), Nevada (6), North Carolina (15) and Pennsylvania (20).

Trump has 214 electoral votes and would need 56 more to win. Joe Biden has 253 electoral votes and would only need 17 more to win.

Biden is leading in Arizona, Georgia, Nevada and Pennsylvania. Trump has a lead in Alaska and North Carolina.

Biden has many paths to win 270 electoral votes:

1. If he only wins Pennsylvania, he’ll have 273 electoral votes.

2. If he wins Arizona and Nevada, he’ll have 270.

3. If he wins Georgia and Nevada, he’ll have 275.

4. Or he could win Arizona and Georgia, he’ll have 280.

The bottom line is, say hi to Pres. Biden and bye-bye to Trump.


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## Sharma Ji

A post Trump world 

nooooooooooooooooooooo


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 686361
> 
> 
> Presidential election 2020. To win the election candidates needs 270 electoral votes.
> 
> Where things stand.
> 
> Six states are still counting their ballots:
> 
> Alaska (3 electoral votes), Arizona (11), Georgia (16), Nevada (6), North Carolina (15) and Pennsylvania (20).
> 
> Trump has 214 electoral votes and would need 56 more to win. Joe Biden has 253 electoral votes and would only need 17 more to win.
> 
> Biden is leading in Arizona, Georgia, Nevada and Pennsylvania. Trump has a lead in Alaska and North Carolina.
> 
> Biden has many paths to win 270 electoral votes:
> 
> 1. If he only wins Pennsylvania, he’ll have 273 electoral votes.
> 
> 2. If he wins Arizona and Nevada, he’ll have 270.
> 
> 3. If he wins Georgia and Nevada, he’ll have 275.
> 
> 4. Or he could win Arizona and Georgia, he’ll have 280.
> 
> The bottom line is, say hi to Pres. Biden and bye-bye to Trump.



You know, somewhat lost in all this amazing up and down election and Biden coming through and Trump throwing all sorts of idiotic rumors of fraud out there without a shred of evidence to back them up and this and that................is the fact that we should be getting the first female VP before ever getting the first female president and Kamala Harris is an excellent representative for that position and hopefully when all this other crap settles, she'll get the recognition she deserves.

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## IsThisNameAvailable

ANYTHING can fail ANYEHERE. 
Except COMMUNISM. Except IN CHINA.
(Expect such thoughts inside @beijingwalker 's head)


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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> You know what's funny? I've actually been telling quite a few people about this professor's prediction and how he has been correct on every election since 1984 including Trump in 2016 which that fact alone gave him a lot of consideration. Then all these friends of mine whom I've mentioned this to -- thanks to you bringing it up -- have all been reminding me of him since yesterday and I found it fascinating that they all remembered this and sort of held on to the thought in the back of their minds, I suppose to give them hope! lol! Imagine that? I guess the guy looks to have kept his impressive streak going.
> 
> We'll have to check in with his 13 point prediction eventually when the next election comes along.


I’m also a big fan of the professor, I also was planning to post his analysis/predictions but then a good friend @cloud4000 posted it.

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## F-22Raptor

Gomig-21 said:


> You know, somewhat lost in all this amazing up and down election and Biden coming through and Trump throwing all sorts of idiotic rumors of fraud out there without a shred of evidence to back them up and this and that................is the fact that we should be getting the first female VP before ever getting the first female president and Kamala Harris is an excellent representative for that position and hopefully when all this other crap settles, she'll get the recognition she deserves.



Definitely a historic moment for women in politics. I expect she will run for President in 2028 and potentially 2024 if Biden decided to step down.

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## Gomig-21

F-22Raptor said:


> Definitely a historic moment for women in politics. I expect she will run for President in 2028 and potentially 2024 if Biden decided to step down.



I actually thought that because of Biden's age and whatever other reasons, that this might've been the plan from all along that to get rid of the incumbent and the only one with the pedigree to do it now was Biden, but that he really didn't want 8 years of what is really a SUPER HECTIC job and that he would hand it over early to Harris if she can pull it off. It seems like that might've been the plan all along, or I could be way off!

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> You know, somewhat lost in all this amazing up and down election and Biden coming through and Trump throwing all sorts of idiotic rumors of fraud out there without a shred of evidence to back them up and this and that................is the fact that we should be getting the first female VP before ever getting the first female president and Kamala Harris is an excellent representative for that position and hopefully when all this other crap settles, she'll get the recognition she deserves.


Totally agree! And I think she will greatly benefit by working with Biden.

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## F-22Raptor

Trumps ego is big enough where I could see him running for President again in 24, but he’d be setting himself up for an embarrassing defeat if he weren’t nominated by the Republican Party.

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## Sharma Ji

jamahir said:


> I agree those two vids make sense.


They sure do. Glad you agree.



jamahir said:


> I agree he was a showpiece along with Hillary Clinton, meant to show that America could now have Blacks and Women at the top-most position in the country whatever be the base thinking of those people. Remember Hillary's laughingly said "We came, we saw, he died" in 2011 ?


I do, that was disgusting. A totally senseless murder, in concert with the Sauds and other regional players because of oil and the pipeline but look what they brought up upon themselves in the form of an exacerbated refugee crisis and what's happening in Europe now. 



jamahir said:


> Well, I never hated Trump though many others did. But he too is not the wisest of leaders ( though he was correct in your second vid ). For example, under his command America is pulling out of Afghanistan but the Taliban will be part of the coming governments there. Why couldn't America listen to Afghan progressives like the SPA ( Solidarity Party of Afghanistan ) and get them into the coming government ? Because the SPA is a leftist group.
> 
> So Trump may be better than the Bushes and Obomba but he too has something lacking.


There's no such thing as a perfect system or leader that absolutely all 100% of any society or group of people will agree on. 

Trump foreign policy: no new wars, defeated ISIS, peace deal and Afghan pullout, initiated historic dialogue with the DPRK instead of confronting them militarily, peace deal between Israelis and Arabs, peace deal between Serbia and Kosovo, no regime change in Syria, restraint against Iran, no escalation with Russia over the Donbass, stepped in and diffused to an extent the India - Pak skirmish.... 

deserves credit for that because people said/thought the opposite of him. That he was a madman who will start WW3. Not the case, was it ? 



jamahir said:


> Switzerland, the Libyan Jamahiriya.


Swiss still highly regulate arms ownership, they're a unique case of super direct democracy, not applicable to any other for a variety of reasons. 

not sure about Gaddafi's Libya and arms ownership.. Libya, Yemen, Pakistan are probably not the best examples of responsible armed polite societies  



jamahir said:


> I liked this they say :


of course you like the American socialists, you're a damn commie.. 



jamahir said:


> Part of the development is because the world itself has moved and part is because of the steps that Nehru, Ambedkar and comrades had taken.
> 
> Yet things like oppression against Dalits, women, peasants, Muslims, intellectuals remain.


Nehru et all just happened to be in charge of the formative years of a young modern nation state of India. 

and disagree, only marxist "intellectuals" are being pushed back against, they sure as hell are not opressed , the rest is societal problems that are mostly beyond the scope of government (no matter what type) to solve.



jamahir said:


> I will give an example of the change. Nowadays there are web series' in India with foul language. That is tolerated. But there are certain films that simply cannot be made. Can Jaane Bhi Do Yaaro with its final drama scene be made now ? Can a film portraying the Naxals in fairly critiquing light be made ?
> 
> Another example. What about inter-caste and inter-religion marriages ? Can these be done now without the right-wingers raising hue and cry ?
> 
> What about the open rallies in Jammu by BJP supporters in favor of the Kathua rape / torture culprit ? BJP raised hue and cry about the Palghar lynching but didn't raise voice in favor of Rohith Vemula.
> 
> In media trolls and warmongers like Arnab Goswami are being felicitated while good journalists are being harassed, arrested and their offices shutdown.
> 
> Lynchers are fearless.
> 
> All these things are now done openly, without fear of legal retribution.


again, movies and culture are societal things, not something government can solve. 

"Lynchers" may be fearless but the law still applies, we're not that much of a banana republic yet, not even close to being one.

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## beijingwalker

IsThisNameAvailable said:


> ANYTHING can fail ANYEHERE.
> Except COMMUNISM. Except IN CHINA.
> (Expect such thoughts inside @beijingwalker 's head)


Communism can also fail, social systems are like tools being used by humans, China knows how constantly improves and adjusts those tools and US seems having trouble to do so.


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## vi-va

dharmi said:


> again, movies and culture are societal things, not something government can solve.


societal things are not government responsibility at all in India. I see, seems India government only take limited responsibility, and thus hold accountable for what?


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## Gomig-21

F-22Raptor said:


> Trumps ego is big enough where I could see him running for President again in 24, but he’d be setting himself up for an embarrassing defeat if he weren’t nominated by the Republican Party.



If we're looking for the GOP to control Trump and to get involved in the right way and put things to bed, I guess we were really way off when the likes of this clown comes out and says something like this? What "battle" is he exactly referring to?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1324759580472127491
Thankfully Mitt Romney has come out with a scathing comment at Trump according to CNN I'll have to find it. 

There's also saying that Biden is going to make a full statement tonight at prime time. My guess is he'll accept the election and the win despite not getting a call from Trump conceding the election which is my guess. Sad that it will come down to that.

Remember when he said this at one of those radical rallies?

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Here is a Democracy vs dictatorship challenge

All Chinese members here from China, if you take your form of Govt seriously and believe it is better than democracy

Please put this below innocuous image as your profile pic






You can also choose this one-





@Chhatrapati 
Given the confidence of Chinese members in the form of Govt , I am sure all Chinese members here will win this challenge and prove us wrong

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## beijingwalker

Syama Ayas said:


> Here is Democracy vs dictatorship challenge
> 
> All Chinese members here from China if you take your form of Govt seriously
> 
> Please put this below innocuous image as your profile pic
> 
> View attachment 686395
> 
> 
> You can also choose this one-
> View attachment 686396
> View attachment 686395
> View attachment 686396


Why? are you still a child? so dumb and childish. No wonder you guys never progress.


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

beijingwalker said:


> Why? are you still a child? so dumb and childish. No wonder you guys never progress.





beijingwalker said:


> Only dumb and stupid people do this, Chinese are result and target oriented people , why don't fool around like children who'll never grow up, go and find Trump to play with you.


Seems like I have struck a nerve here 

I guessing you response means defeat already

Score so far
Democracy 1, Hanese dictatorship 0

Come on Chinese members from China , you can make dictatorship win.

All you need to do is change your profile pics


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## beijingwalker

Syama Ayas said:


> Seems like I have struck a nerve
> 
> I guessing you response means defeat already
> 
> Score so far
> Democracy 1, Hanese dictatorship 0
> 
> Come on Chinese members from China, you can make dictatorship win.
> 
> All you need to do is change your profile pics


Only dumb and stupid people do this, Chinese are result and target oriented people , why don't fool around like children who'll never grow up, go and find Trump to play with you.

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## vi-va

beijingwalker said:


> Communism can also fail, social systems are like tools being used by humans, China knows how constantly improves and adjusts those tools and US seems having trouble to do so.


There was a period of time, US was able to adjust herself after crisis, such as WW1, great depression, WW2, Vietnam War, and the fall of Bretton Woods Agreement.

US adjusted herself better then USSR, or we can say USSR suffered too much during WW1, the interference of western power after WW1, WW2 and the interference of western power after WW2(The Cold War). 

US was much wealthier than USSR during Cold War, also enjoyed much bigger room to adjust herself, and safer geopolitical and military environment.

The nowadays US is politically stagnant, lost the capability to adjust herself. The *Vetocracy*. 

We will see how long US get out of the trap, it may be 4 years, 8 years or even decades. 

China was not in good shape in 1980s, 1990s. But getting better in 2000s, and way better in 2020s. So far China adjusted herself faster and better than any other countries. But we must remember China geopolitical and military environment is NOT as harsh as USSR in recent 30 years. 

How long China can keep improving herself, keep political stability, and social prosperity? We will see.

India on the other hands, missed the bus of globalization in past 30 years. Can India seize the chance this time and get prospers? Maybe, maybe not. Too many factors. Can India adjust herself as fast as needs to be? That's the key.


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

925boy said:


> Communist China is more successful than Democratic India. thats just the truth and hot tea.


If you are talking about economic development here, both India and China were historically the largest economies in world, when neither was a democracy or communist






Modern day China despite its economic lead over India. China still fall behind India in some basic areas of development-
Slums





Homeless people


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## beijingwalker

Syama Ayas said:


> If you are talking about economic development here, both India and China were historically the largest economies in world, when neither was a democracy or communist
> 
> View attachment 686398
> 
> 
> Modern day China despite its economic lead over India. China still fall behind India in some basic areas of development-
> Slums
> View attachment 686399
> 
> 
> Homeless people
> View attachment 686400


Which year? Can you find recent reports or videos about China's slums?


Syama Ayas said:


> Modern day China despite its economic lead over India. China still fall behind India in some basic areas of development-


Like what?


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

beijingwalker said:


> Which year? Can you find recent reports or videos about China's slums?


I can't find videos of Nanking atrocities, Unit 731 as well,
I guess they never happened


----------



## beijingwalker

Syama Ayas said:


> I can't find videos of Nanking atrocities, Unit 731 as well,
> I guess they never happened


Like Mumbai slum, it's not hard to find when everyone has a camera phone.


----------



## Sharma Ji

vi-va said:


> societal things are not government responsibility at all in India. I see, seems India government only take limited responsibility, and thus hold accountable for what?


I responded to comrade @jamahir talking about TV serials and movies.. you think government should have a say in artistic expression ?

The government's job is to make life continue easy for it's subjects/citizens, not to dictate and watch over every thought individuals have.


You commies are truly beyond help if you do.


----------



## Chhatrapati

vi-va said:


> How funny you are. Hitler was elected by the rules of election. Others can do it as well. Such as Modi and Trump.


Who cares man, what's funny is watching a bunch of Chinese clutching at straws here lol. Modi and Trump are elected leaders of their country, they campaigned for it and won, if and only if they scuttle the democratic process then they can be called dictators, and that's when a democratic system seize to exist. 

If you still can't understand some simple facts, bugger off instead of wasting my time. 



vi-va said:


> As long as you gain enough power, you can do anything you want. Nothing can stop Hitler, nothing can stop Modi if he accumulate as much power as Hitler.


Another stupidity, Modi or Trump cannot grant themselves any power that would override the constitution. Yeah, India has a constitution Modi adheres to. 



vi-va said:


> Actually Modi is on the way to gain as much power as Hitler. Do you know when Modi banned Chinese goods, he needs parliament approval? He did NOT. He just announced the ban on the TV and Twitter, that's it. No one dare to challenge Modi regarding parliament approval at all. Modi is the law.


Go watch some Anime cartoons kid, if you have no clue what you're talking about. Speaking of Hitler, Xi Jinping is extremely similar to Hitler, he eventually raised himself to be the Supreme Commander, he can rule as long as he wishes to, he is above any laws of the Chinese constitution (if any exists) and like Hitler he elevated himself to the rank of dictator overriding the written laws. 



925boy said:


> Communist China disproves this.
> 
> Also. the main reason communism and socialism failed IN MY OPINION is consistent, aggressive interference by the US. Only China was able to overcome that, lets be honest.
> 
> Communist China is more successful than Democratic India. thats just the truth and hot tea.


Not really, every country that has to crowd control through banning information sharing is essentially bound to fail. Soviets are the best example of that. CCP security rests in their ability to keep the crowd occupied in their jobs they did try to bring about a democratic system but were brutally cracked down. 
Carrot and stick. 

Soviets dug their own pits, they tried to unify one country much like India with a lot of ethnicities, religions, tribes into a godless system. 

Maybe Communist China is more successful than democratic India today, I'm not too sure what tomorrow has. Communism IMO is like balancing on a string with one leg out. You lose balance you'll be in turmoil for decades, meanwhile in democracies, if you don't like the way your country is going you're free to try something new. In countries like China where rule of law is arbitrary and directly in line with the party these systems will become unsustainable. 

Communism never survived for more than 100 years in any country. There are 15 democracies that survived more than 100 years.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Chhatrapati said:


> Communism never survived for more than 100 years in any country. There are 15 democracies that survived more than 100 years.


Communist China is already broken state

no nation has its own province with a separate military, economy, diplomatic relations and currency like China does


----------



## Chhatrapati

Syama Ayas said:


>


That's a protest in Taiwan, it's not People's Republic of China.

The most hilarious Irony of China is these morons have the veracity to call their country *People's Republic. *Maybe they thought it's fashionable to call countries Republic maybe when they created they weren't well versed in English 🤭


----------



## jamal18

There is a strong belief that democracy is the holy cow that will solve everything. Even if implemented properly, there are logical inconsistencies in democracy that can create a lot of ugly problems.


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

Chhatrapati said:


> That's a protest in Taiwan, it's not PRC.


Yes and China considers it to be just a renegade province


----------



## beijingwalker

Chhatrapati said:


> That's a protest in Taiwan, it's not PRC.


As long as Taiwan is ‘’Republic of China" everything is fine. China is not a united country by now, we all admit it.


----------



## Surya 1

beijingwalker said:


> *Democracy can fail anywhere, even in America*
> Trump’s suggestions that he will not accept defeat puts the country’s values under unprecedented strain
> GIDEON RACHMAN
> NOVEMBER 2 2020
> 
> 
> The US has long rejoiced in the title “leader of the free world”. The American presidential election was the ultimate example of democracy in action. But we are about to witness an election night like no other. People around the world will be acutely attuned not just to the vote tally, but to any sign that the results are going to be contested in the courts or on the streets. The failure of democracy is something most Americans thought happened only in foreign lands, but democracies can fail anywhere.
> 
> Painful lessons learnt from the nation’s own faltering efforts at “democracy promotion” abroad could also apply in the US. One common idea is that democracy is about more than voting. If election results are not to be undermined or overturned, democracy also requires a free media, a strong civil service, independent courts, a secure constitutional framework and — perhaps most important of all — a democratic culture in which the election losers will accept defeat.
> 
> All of these things used to be taken for granted in the US. But perhaps no longer. The willingness of Donald Trump to accept defeat is clearly in question. The president has repeatedly suggested that he will not acknowledge a result that he deems “rigged”. Many Democrats believe Mr Trump’s complaints are simply a front for his own plans to steal the election. Talk of a rigged or stolen election is dangerous. As recent experience in Belarus demonstrates, if millions of people believe an election is fraudulent they can take to the streets — leading to social paralysis or political violence.
> 
> Rage at a stolen election is one reason why democracies collapse. But if the costs of losing seem too high, then the willingness to accept defeat — even if the vote is fair — can also disappear. Both Republicans and Democrats sometimes talk as though the very survival of the US, or of the communities they represent, are at stake in this vote. Some senior Republicans have begun to say out loud that the survival of the values and system they cherish is more important than democracy itself.
> 
> Senator Mike Lee of Utah recently tweeted: “Democracy isn’t the objective; liberty, peace, and [prosperity] are. We want the human condition to flourish. Rank democracy can thwart that.” Watching these events unfold, some US diplomats fear that political pathologies they once thought were confined to failing democracies overseas, are appearing at home.
> 
> Philip Gordon, a senior official in the Barack Obama administration, recalls trying to persuade Egyptian generals and officials of the Muslim Brotherhood to coexist within the same political system. He was rebuffed. Both sides in Egypt saw each other as an existential threat, to be defeated at all costs and by any means necessary. Now Mr Gordon fears the same winner-takes-all logic is undermining American democracy. Worryingly, even the simplest step in the process — the voting itself — looks flawed and ramshackle. People across the US have been forced to queue for hours to vote early. In several states, the Republican party has deliberately made voting more difficult, particularly for racial minorities.
> 
> 
> The inconsistent patchwork of state rules about how people can vote — and how those votes are counted — is a recipe for confusion. Mr Trump’s repeated allegations that mail-in ballots are open to fraud lays the ground for him to dispute the results. It is therefore entirely possible that, as in 2000, the election result will end up being settled by the Supreme Court. That possibility underlines the crucial importance of an independent judiciary in a democratic system. But the unseemly rush to get an ultra-conservative new justice, Amy Coney Barrett, appointed to the court before the vote risks making the country’s highest judicial body look like just another instrument of partisan politics. Mr Trump has hinted heavily that he hopes that Ms Barrett will tip any ruling on the election in his direction.
> 
> 
> In 2000, Al Gore, the Democratic candidate, was prepared to accept a 5-4 Supreme Court ruling against him and in favour of the Republican George W Bush. There were no significant public protests. But it seems unlikely that the Democrats would passively accept another court-inflicted defeat if they regard Republican complaints as bogus and the court as “packed”. Democratic party outrage would be accentuated if Mr Trump had lost the popular vote, but gained victory through the electoral college, which tallies votes on a state-by-state basis.
> 
> That system, which used to seem like a charming historical quirk, now looks increasingly like a device to thwart majority opinion. Combine it with the over-representation of small, Republican-leaning states in the Senate — which, in turn, confirms Supreme Court judges — and you have a recipe for a crisis of legitimacy in US democracy. Any such development would also be a profound crisis for American allies and admirers.
> 
> The country’s claim to be “leader of the free world” is not just a piece of vainglorious self-congratulation. The world’s democracies do indeed look to the US for support, leadership and inspiration. When efforts at democracy promotion fail in Egypt or Iraq it is a tragedy for the country concerned. If democracy fails in the US, it will be a global tragedy.
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/65ff77d2-9a25-4eb7-91f7-6d04c15de395


But dictatorship never fails because In dictatorship, the power in the hands of dictator matters only.


----------



## Xerxes22

beijingwalker said:


> Soviet style communism failed, but communism doesn't have an all agreed standard, China's is the most successful system consistently brings positive results.


Successful at what cost? Enslavement of the populace? Atleast in democracies people cast votes.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Chhatrapati

beijingwalker said:


> As long as Taiwan is ‘’Republic of China" everything is fine. China is not a united country by now, we all admit it.


Whatever, they are an independent country.


----------



## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

beijingwalker said:


> *Democracy can fail anywhere, even in America*
> Trump’s suggestions that he will not accept defeat puts the country’s values under unprecedented strain
> GIDEON RACHMAN
> NOVEMBER 2 2020
> 
> 
> The US has long rejoiced in the title “leader of the free world”. The American presidential election was the ultimate example of democracy in action. But we are about to witness an election night like no other. People around the world will be acutely attuned not just to the vote tally, but to any sign that the results are going to be contested in the courts or on the streets. The failure of democracy is something most Americans thought happened only in foreign lands, but democracies can fail anywhere.
> 
> Painful lessons learnt from the nation’s own faltering efforts at “democracy promotion” abroad could also apply in the US. One common idea is that democracy is about more than voting. If election results are not to be undermined or overturned, democracy also requires a free media, a strong civil service, independent courts, a secure constitutional framework and — perhaps most important of all — a democratic culture in which the election losers will accept defeat.
> 
> All of these things used to be taken for granted in the US. But perhaps no longer. The willingness of Donald Trump to accept defeat is clearly in question. The president has repeatedly suggested that he will not acknowledge a result that he deems “rigged”. Many Democrats believe Mr Trump’s complaints are simply a front for his own plans to steal the election. Talk of a rigged or stolen election is dangerous. As recent experience in Belarus demonstrates, if millions of people believe an election is fraudulent they can take to the streets — leading to social paralysis or political violence.
> 
> Rage at a stolen election is one reason why democracies collapse. But if the costs of losing seem too high, then the willingness to accept defeat — even if the vote is fair — can also disappear. Both Republicans and Democrats sometimes talk as though the very survival of the US, or of the communities they represent, are at stake in this vote. Some senior Republicans have begun to say out loud that the survival of the values and system they cherish is more important than democracy itself.
> 
> Senator Mike Lee of Utah recently tweeted: “Democracy isn’t the objective; liberty, peace, and [prosperity] are. We want the human condition to flourish. Rank democracy can thwart that.” Watching these events unfold, some US diplomats fear that political pathologies they once thought were confined to failing democracies overseas, are appearing at home.
> 
> Philip Gordon, a senior official in the Barack Obama administration, recalls trying to persuade Egyptian generals and officials of the Muslim Brotherhood to coexist within the same political system. He was rebuffed. Both sides in Egypt saw each other as an existential threat, to be defeated at all costs and by any means necessary. Now Mr Gordon fears the same winner-takes-all logic is undermining American democracy. Worryingly, even the simplest step in the process — the voting itself — looks flawed and ramshackle. People across the US have been forced to queue for hours to vote early. In several states, the Republican party has deliberately made voting more difficult, particularly for racial minorities.
> 
> 
> The inconsistent patchwork of state rules about how people can vote — and how those votes are counted — is a recipe for confusion. Mr Trump’s repeated allegations that mail-in ballots are open to fraud lays the ground for him to dispute the results. It is therefore entirely possible that, as in 2000, the election result will end up being settled by the Supreme Court. That possibility underlines the crucial importance of an independent judiciary in a democratic system. But the unseemly rush to get an ultra-conservative new justice, Amy Coney Barrett, appointed to the court before the vote risks making the country’s highest judicial body look like just another instrument of partisan politics. Mr Trump has hinted heavily that he hopes that Ms Barrett will tip any ruling on the election in his direction.
> 
> 
> In 2000, Al Gore, the Democratic candidate, was prepared to accept a 5-4 Supreme Court ruling against him and in favour of the Republican George W Bush. There were no significant public protests. But it seems unlikely that the Democrats would passively accept another court-inflicted defeat if they regard Republican complaints as bogus and the court as “packed”. Democratic party outrage would be accentuated if Mr Trump had lost the popular vote, but gained victory through the electoral college, which tallies votes on a state-by-state basis.
> 
> That system, which used to seem like a charming historical quirk, now looks increasingly like a device to thwart majority opinion. Combine it with the over-representation of small, Republican-leaning states in the Senate — which, in turn, confirms Supreme Court judges — and you have a recipe for a crisis of legitimacy in US democracy. Any such development would also be a profound crisis for American allies and admirers.
> 
> The country’s claim to be “leader of the free world” is not just a piece of vainglorious self-congratulation. The world’s democracies do indeed look to the US for support, leadership and inspiration. When efforts at democracy promotion fail in Egypt or Iraq it is a tragedy for the country concerned. If democracy fails in the US, it will be a global tragedy.
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/65ff77d2-9a25-4eb7-91f7-6d04c15de395



Yes and scary but US is no exception to abuse of power, authoritarianism, coup, civil war, and invasion by foreign powers.

US is not any different than any other country. It is still affected by the same forces which affect weaker countries, like in Africa or South America.

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## Chhatrapati

Syama Ayas said:


> Yes and China considers it to be just a renegade province


Yeah, the Chinese have many such hilarious thoughts, like they can rule over the 9 dash lines.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## beijingwalker

Xerxes22 said:


> Successful at what cost? Enslavement of the populace? Atleast in democracies people cast votes.


Chinese people live better lives than you, and the government takes care of the population, if that what you mean for enslaving the populace.


Chhatrapati said:


> Whatever, they are an independent country.


As long as they are still China, I don't care.


----------



## Sharma Ji

Chhatrapati said:


> The most hilarious Irony of China is these morons have the veracity to call their country *People's Republic. *


There's that other "democratic people's republic" in that area too... 

and don't forget Congo

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Chhatrapati

dharmi said:


> There's that other "democratic people's republic" in that area too...
> 
> and don't forget Congo


Props always go to the biggest idiot in the field.


----------



## Xerxes22

beijingwalker said:


> Chinese people live better lives than you, and the government takes care of the population, if that what you mean for enslaving the populace.
> 
> As long as they are still China, I don't care.


No thats not what i mean by enslavement. The funny thing is people that are enslaved often forget the defintion of enslavement. By enslavement, i mean stuff like the "Social Credit Score" without which people cant even book a flight (that's what I have been told but you know better ofcourse). Perhaps you can enlighten us on it.

Chinese people live better lives than me? Well im sure alot of chinese people do, and alot dont. Tbf, China is more State Capitalism than communism. I just think people shud be in atleast an acceptable level of control.


----------



## beijingwalker

Xerxes22 said:


> i mean stuff like the "Social Credit Score" without which people cant even book a flight (that's what I have been told but you know better ofcourse). Perhaps you can enlighten us on it.


I live in China but I don't know about this score thing, I never heard anyone who can not book a flight because of that so called score thing, did you ever hear anyone who can't?


----------



## Chhatrapati

beijingwalker said:


> As long as they are still China, I don't care.


Wish your leaders see things the same way, and sing kumbaya.


beijingwalker said:


> I live in China but I don't know about this score thing, I never heard anyone who can not book a flight because of that so called score thing, did you ever hear anyone who can't?


Yeah


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## Xerxes22

beijingwalker said:


> I live in China but I don't know about this score thing, I never heard anyone who can not book a flight because of that so called score thing, did you ever hear anyone who can't?


well i heard that from multiple american conservative media. God knows wat the they were talking about, thats why I asked you to confirm. I used to have an anti capitalist mindset. But recent development in the world has shifted my opinions alot. I think we need a system eaxactly in betwee that of Capitalism and communism. But with a lot of humane values.


----------



## Sharma Ji

Chhatrapati said:


> Props always go to the biggest idiot in the field.


Congo does it right. 

Do not shitpost if you're in the Congo

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beijingwalker

Xerxes22 said:


> well i heard that from multiple american conservative media. God knows wat the they were talking about, thats why I asked you to confirm. I used to have an anti capitalist mindset. But recent development in the world has shifted my opinions alot. I think we need a system eaxactly in betwee that of Capitalism and communism. But with a lot of humane values.


I guess you are talking about this one, this is for banking credits, not for politics, it's designed to curb bank scams and frauds, I don't know this is already in place by far or not.

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## CatSultan

Their is no Democracy in America. The electoral college chooses the president and they can vote however they want. Mostly they are controlled by the Israeli Lobby and their deep pockets. Apparently, the lobby doesn't like trump anymore. He has pro Israel stances, but his actions have been bad for them. He made peace with the Taliban and he pulled his troops out of Syria.


----------



## RabzonKhan

CatSultan said:


> Their is no Democracy in America. The electoral college chooses the president and they can vote however they want. Mostly they are controlled by the Israeli Lobby and their deep pockets. Apparently, the lobby doesn't like trump anymore. He has pro Israel stances, but his actions have been bad for them. He made peace with the Taliban and he pulled his troops out of Syria.


Did the Israeli lobby like Obama?

=================================================================


Democrat candidate Ossoff criticize Republican Sen for running racist and Islamophobic ads.

“First, you were lengthening my nose in attack ads to remind everybody that I’m Jewish. Then, when that didn’t work, you started calling me some kind of Islamic terrorist. Then, when that didn’t work, you started calling me a Chinese communist,”





Georgia senatorial debate. The Republican Sen. David Perdue debate his Democratic challenger, Jon Ossoff.

@Gomig-21 @cloud4000 @KAL-EL @F-22Raptor

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CatSultan

RabzonKhan said:


> Did the Israeli lobby like Obama?
> 
> =================================================================
> 
> 
> Democrat candidate Ossoff criticize Republican Sen for running racist and Islamophobic ads.
> 
> “First, you were lengthening my nose in attack ads to remind everybody that I’m Jewish. Then, when that didn’t work, you started calling me some kind of Islamic terrorist. Then, when that didn’t work, you started calling me a Chinese communist,”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Georgia senatorial debate. The Republican Sen. David Perdue debate his Democratic challenger, Jon Ossoff.
> 
> @Gomig-21 @cloud4000 @KAL-EL @F-22Raptor




They loved Obama. Look at how many Muslims he killed.


----------



## khansaheeb




----------



## Aspen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1324793014959689728
(CNN) As it's become increasingly clear that Donald Trump needs the equivalent of a triple bank shot to win a second term, the President and his closest allies have already begun to prepare the justification for why he "has" to run again in 2024.
The argument is two-fold: 1) The election is being taken from him and 2) Only Trump among prominent elected Republicans is willing to stand up and fight this tremendous injustice.
"The total lack of action from virtually all of the '2024 GOP hopefuls' is pretty amazing," tweeted Donald Trump Jr., the President's eldest son, on Thursday. "They have a perfect platform to show that they're willing & able to fight but they will cower to the media mob instead. Don't worry @realDonaldTrump will fight & they can watch as usual!"
"If you want to win in 2024 as a Republican, I would probably start saying something," tweetedformer Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale on Thursday night. "Just saying."
This post-election period, then, is being cast as a loyalty test by Trumpworld. Either you speak up and say that Democrats are stealing this election or you don't deserve to lead the party in four years' time. 
The problem with that logic is, of course, it's totally illogical. What Trump and his allies are asking Republican elected officials to do is to say that the election is being stolen from the President despite a total of zero evidence that that is, well, actually happening. 
What Trump and his friends in the conservative media are doing is alleging that any continued counting of votes amounts to something untoward -- when in fact it is evidence that things are working as they should. The votes being counted now, in virtually every state that remains uncalled, came in BEFORE Election Day. The reason they are being delayed in counting is because many of these states had rules that didn't allow election officials to begin counting the massive influx of early votes until this week.
To side with Trump on this is to oppose the process that sits at the heart of our democracy. If votes cast legally aren't allowed to be counted because, uh, the President says they shouldn't be, then what, exactly are we left with?
That basic fact is why the vast majority of Republicans have avoided endorsing the Trump view fully. Some, like South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham, have gotten as close to in line as possible -- promising to donate to Trump's legal fund and insisting that only legal votes should be counted. (Which, duh.) Others, like Pennsylvania Pat Toomey (R), who, it's worth noting, is retiring in 2022, have been less willing to kind of, sort of play along with Trump's charade.
"I saw the President's speech last night, and it was very hard to watch," Toomey said of Trump's stunningly dishonest address at the White House on Thursday night. "The President's allegations of large-scale fraud and theft of the election are just not substantiated. I'm not aware of any significant wrongdoing here."
Concerns about preserving faith in our democratic process is, of course, not at the forefront of Trump's thinking right now. Instead, he is considering the best way to somehow declare victory (he and his campaign have already said they won several states, like Pennsylvania, that they look unlikely to win) while also positioning himself as the aggrieved victim of a biased media and unfaithful Republicans. That he has no plans to concede, as CNN's Kaitlan Collins reported Friday morning, is perfectly consistent with the_ "I was robbed_" message coming out of Trumpworld
That sort of stance -- I won, and even if I didn't it's because Republicans didn't stand up and fight! -- is without question an effort to position Trump as the default nominee against Biden in 2024. _He's the only one willing to fight for u_s, his supporters will be convinced to believe._Everyone else looked away at this election was stolen. Only Trump stood up!_
That all of that is disproven by a little something called objective facts won't matter to those most loyal of Trumpists. They have already thrown their lot in with Trump no matter what -- so what's swallowing one more gigantic falsehood if it allows them to continue to believe that their views represent the majority of Americans?
Don't believe me about what Trump is doing here? Maybe you'll believe his former White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney. "I would absolutely expect the President to stay involved in politics and would absolutely put him on the shortlist of people who are likely to run in 2024," Mulvaney said Thursday.









Analysis: How Donald Trump is already laying the groundwork for 2024


As it's become increasingly clear that Donald Trump needs the equivalent of a triple bank shot to win a second term, the President and his closest allies have already begun to prepare the justification for why he "has" to run again in 2024.




edition.cnn.com


----------



## GHALIB

Gomig-21 said:


> You know, somewhat lost in all this amazing up and down election and Biden coming through and Trump throwing all sorts of idiotic rumors of fraud out there without a shred of evidence to back them up and this and that................is the fact that we should be getting the first female VP before ever getting the first female president and Kamala Harris is an excellent representative for that position and hopefully when all this other crap settles, she'll get the recognition she deserves.



welcome kamla ji 


Syama Ayas said:


> Here is a Democracy vs dictatorship challenge
> 
> All Chinese members here from China, if you take your form of Govt seriously and believe it is better than democracy
> 
> Please put this below innocuous image as your profile pic
> 
> View attachment 686395
> 
> 
> You can also choose this one-
> View attachment 686396
> 
> 
> @Chhatrapati
> Given the confidence of Chinese members in the form of Govt , I am sure all Chinese members here will win this challenge and prove us wrong


very nice .


----------



## vi-va

Chhatrapati said:


> Who cares man, what's funny is watching a bunch of Chinese clutching at straws here lol. Modi and Trump are elected leaders of their country, they campaigned for it and won, if and only if they scuttle the democratic process then they can be called dictators, and that's when a democratic system seize to exist.
> 
> If you still can't understand some simple facts, bugger off instead of wasting my time.
> 
> 
> Another stupidity, Modi or Trump cannot grant themselves any power that would override the constitution. Yeah, India has a constitution Modi adheres to.
> 
> 
> Go watch some Anime cartoons kid, if you have no clue what you're talking about. Speaking of Hitler, Xi Jinping is extremely similar to Hitler, he eventually raised himself to be the Supreme Commander, he can rule as long as he wishes to, he is above any laws of the Chinese constitution (if any exists) and like Hitler he elevated himself to the rank of dictator overriding the written laws.
> 
> 
> Not really, every country that has to crowd control through banning information sharing is essentially bound to fail. Soviets are the best example of that. CCP security rests in their ability to keep the crowd occupied in their jobs they did try to bring about a democratic system but were brutally cracked down.
> Carrot and stick.
> 
> Soviets dug their own pits, they tried to unify one country much like India with a lot of ethnicities, religions, tribes into a godless system.
> 
> Maybe Communist China is more successful than democratic India today, I'm not too sure what tomorrow has. Communism IMO is like balancing on a string with one leg out. You lose balance you'll be in turmoil for decades, meanwhile in democracies, if you don't like the way your country is going you're free to try something new. In countries like China where rule of law is arbitrary and directly in line with the party these systems will become unsustainable.
> 
> Communism never survived for more than 100 years in any country. There are 15 democracies that survived more than 100 years.


The biggest misunderstanding are:

China is not communist country. We have some communism legacies, philosophy and organizations. But we are actually back to Confucius value and traditional rule of this country.
India in theory is western liberal democracy. India may be democracy, or liberal to some extent, but not liberal democracy at all. India nowadays is a complex of western ideology and Hindutva, a dysfunctional society. India tomorrow may succeed, may not. We just don't know.



Chhatrapati said:


> That's a protest in Taiwan, it's not People's Republic of China.
> 
> The most hilarious Irony of China is these morons have the veracity to call their country *People's Republic. *Maybe they thought it's fashionable to call countries Republic maybe when they created they weren't well versed in English 🤭



Republic is the opposite of monarchy. Where the power comes from the public, the people.
China is definitely not monarchy, Nehru family dynasty is sort of actually.
China communist party win the rule by the MASS support during Japanese Invasion and civil war. The people stand behind CCP.
China has elections, which you just don't know from your limited English Media channel.
China believe wisdom comes from meritocracy, instead of MASS.

That's how China win the international position and domestic prosperity today. While hundreds of millions of Indians still struggle on starving.


dharmi said:


> I responded to comrade @jamahir talking about TV serials and movies.. you think government should have a say in artistic expression ?
> 
> The government's job is to make life continue easy for it's subjects/citizens, not to dictate and watch over every thought individuals have.
> 
> 
> You commies are truly beyond help if you do.


Your comments reveals you and India accepted *neo-liberal theory*, which was developed in early 60s in the west.
Neo-liberal make your society divisive and disordered. That's what India society is today.

Go back to learn some history, not a single successful society adopted neo-liberal theory in history. US dysfunction mainly due to neo-liberalism.

A good government should guide their people, instead of *Tittytainment*.

India today lack of visions, no long term planning, dysfunctional, chaotic, stagnant, ecosystem catastrophe, pollutions, over populated.

While India intellectuals embraced over rated, hyped western neo-liberalism. No wonder India is Supa Powa 2020, but lack of toilets. India elites and intellectuals are disconnected with the ground society. That's typical Brahmin behaviors which are good at talking, incapable of doing.

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## atan651

Trump is broke!


----------



## Chhatrapati

vi-va said:


> The biggest misunderstanding are:
> 
> China is not communist country. We have some communism legacies, philosophy and organizations. But we are actually back to Confucius value and traditional rule of this country.
> India in theory is western liberal democracy. India may be democracy, or liberal to some extent, but not liberal democracy at all. India nowadays is a complex of western ideology and Hindutva, a dysfunctional society. India tomorrow may succeed, may not. We just don't know.


Your traditions are namesake. You destroyed your old ways and completely adopted western style system in effect Chinese culture seized to exist back in the 50s. 
India is a liberal democracy as long as there are laws that conform to liberal democracies and as long as those laws are not violated. Simple logic, it doesn't matter who rules, we have a functioning independent judiciary, and rule of law. 



vi-va said:


> Republic is the opposite of monarchy. Where the power comes from the public, the people.
> China is definitely not monarchy, Nehru family dynasty is sort of actually.
> China communist party win the rule by the MASS support during Japanese Invasion and civil war. The people stand behind CCP.
> China has elections, which you just don't know from your limited English Media channel.
> China believe wisdom comes from meritocracy, instead of MASS.
> 
> That's how China win the international position and domestic prosperity today. While hundreds of millions of Indians still struggle on starving.


Lol! As I said, the Chinese don't know what a Republic is.  
Chinese should be ashamed to carry the name Republic, it's a blot on the republics in the world. China is a one-party system with zero public interference rather you're a one-party dictatorship.


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## Fawadqasim1

atan651 said:


> Trump is broke!


Is he really ?


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## SuvarnaTeja

Republicans will never win presidency again.

Trump won over many democrats votes/states which Republicans will never win.

RIP US republican presidency.


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## FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

Never in the history of US ,a President has been so much disliked by his opponents. He will be remembered in infamy for generations to come. Searching the American SM countless Memes can be found on Trump, would love to share a few here.
*1)General view on his administration.*





*2)View about Trump supporters.









3)Trump never trusts anyone.





4)Trump the hate monger.





5) As a National Embarrassment





6)Trump as a fool.





7) America on the brink on getting rid of Trump.





8)How to remove Trump from the Oval office.





9)Trump after presidency.





10)A lesson for all Americans.





There are hundreds more, but these memes will do for now.*

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## RabzonKhan

One of the most happiest day of my life!

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> One of the most happiest day of my life!
> 
> View attachment 686642
> 
> 
> View attachment 686643
> 
> 
> View attachment 686644

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## baqai

what's alarming is the amount of votes he got, forget about Biden winning, think about this aspect that there are extraordinary amount of people who actually stepped out of their houses to vote for Trump. Let that sink in.


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## RabzonKhan

*America Democracy Decency Honesty Integrity Won!















*

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## F-22Raptor



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## RabzonKhan



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## Philosopher



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## RabzonKhan

BRAVO!!! Joe Biden just tweeted out this response to his victory. THIS IS WHAT A PRESIDENT SOUNDS LIKE! 
(Occupy Democrats)

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## Gomig-21

Philosopher said:


> View attachment 686661



When he was telling Netanyahu on speaker phone with the Sudanese Prime Minister and they were celebrating the normalization between Sudan and Israel if he thought that "Sleepy Joe could have done that deal" and Netanyahu paused for a very awkward few seconds before he said "well, we would welcome this kinda thing from aaaaannnnyyy one in the United States" and you could see Trump just lean back in disgust that his buddy Bibi and everything he's done for Israel with Jerusalem and the UAE and the phony balony peace plan with the Palestinians whom had 0 partcipation in that whatsoever LOL and then he didn't get complete loyalty and agreement on dissing Joe Biden from him?!?!? That's because Netanyahu saw the writing on the wall and he knew this guy wasn't going to last a 2nd term and last thing he wanted to do was start off on the wrong foot with Biden. 

I thought it was pretty wild how he left Trump hanging completely and at the same time, shame on this dummy for even putting the guy on the spot with such a stupid and demeaning question! This is one of many reasons why he's completely unfit to be in this position.

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## RabzonKhan

As it was revealed Joe Biden had won the presidency campaign this afternoon, CNN’S Mr Van Jones broke down on tears as the result came in. He spoke about how today is a “good day” for America as he now feels the country can “reset” and many US citizens can now “get some peace”.

Choking back tears, Mr Jones began: “It’s easier to be a parent this morning, it’s easier to be a dad.

“It’s easier to tell your kids character matters. it matters.

“Telling the truth matters, being a good person matters.”

He wiped his eyes before continuing: “It’s easier for a whole lot of people.

“If you are Muslim in this country, you don’t have to worry if the President doesn’t want you here.

“If you’re an immigrant, you don’t have to worry if the President is going to be happy to have babies snatched away or send dreamers back for no reasons.”

Mr Jones broke down in tears as he was overcome with emotion: “It’s a vindication for a lot of people who have really suffered.

“You know, ‘I can’t breathe’ that wasn’t just George Floyd. A lot of people have felt they couldn’t breathe.

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## Gomig-21

^^ I was watching that as it was happening and it was a very powerful moment. What he said about Muslims in America really hit home.

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## F-22Raptor

Biden has broken President Obama’s record for most votes received in an election. Remarkable really considering Obama’s popularity. Democracy is alive and well in this country.

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## RabzonKhan

The moment Fox News projected Joe Biden will win 2020 presidential election.  












Jim Kenney tells a press conference that Donald Trump should 'put his big boy pants on', acknowledge his defeat and congratulate Joe Biden as the winner of the US presidential election.




*The difference between Great Americans and a Crook!*





*Trump, McCain, Bush and Carter: different reactions to bad election results*

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## FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

baqai said:


> think about this aspect that there are extraordinary amount of people who actually stepped out of their houses to vote for Trump.


Well they had enough of him, hopefully Trump and his legacies in our region will be gone as well.


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## Ali_Baba

baqai said:


> what's alarming is the amount of votes he got, forget about Biden winning, think about this aspect that there are extraordinary amount of people who actually stepped out of their houses to vote for Trump. Let that sink in.



Trump got more votes then any other President in American history, more than Obama, etc.. But, Biden got even more. Shows you how heated this election was.

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## Sharma Ji

F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 686656


no doubt the neocons will be out celebrating tonight. 

Here's what good Trump did foreign policy wise in his term: 

no new wars
destroyed ISIS
no regime change in Syria
peace deal and Afghanistan pullout
peace deal between Kosovo and Serbia
peace deal between Israelis and Arabs
initiated dialogue with the DPRK

not bad, not bad at all. 

Here's some other things he did, which Americans have differences on:

Moved their embassy to Jerusalem (something which every President since Bush Sr, and maybe earlier ones as well are on record as having promised but always backed down)

Actually built that wall and cracked down on illegal immigration.
Renegotiated trade deals with China and south Korea
Got rid of and replaced NAFTA
Pulled out/killed the TPP
Pulled out of the Paris climate accord
Pulled out of the Iran deal
Sent offensive weapons to Ukraine to deal with Russia and the Donbass situation.
Got NATO allies to cough up more money and filled their coffers
Reversed Obama's sequestration of and invested heavily in the US military, to the tune of 2.5 trillion odd ? 
Appointed 3 justices to the US supreme court 

Say what you want, but he sure turned out to be a man of his word who kept his campaign promises. 

The bad ? 

The bombast and bluster, his abrasive personality, the constant tweeting, not being politically correct.

Also got treated very unfairly by the press who had been out to hang him every single day since before he even assumed office. Virtually no coverage of the peace deals or his multiple nominations for the Nobel or praise for the economy which was doing really well before the pandemic hit. 

Biden's also a one termer, he will not contest the next one by which time he will be 82 years of age. There also wasn't much substance in his manifesto other than promising a return to some Obama policies and a few scattered platitudes on racial equality.. threw a few breadcrumbs to the left wing and conned Bernie into supporting him. 

The best the world can expect from him that it'll be an uneventful Presidency, he sure doesn't seem to have any big ideas for the world going forward.


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> *The difference between Great Americans and a Crook!*
> 
> *Trump, McCain, Bush and Carter: different reactions to bad election results*



It makes you SICK to your stomach to listen to that totally shameful debacle. What a shame! Just absolutely disgusting, there's nothing else to say. Trying to make a mockery out of a great system that has worked for centuries and has nothing to do with anything he's insinuating. Any of the others who jump on his back should be treated the same exact way. I can't expect anyone would want to support this jackass on any level and to even utter the word "fraud" will be met with nothing but shameful rebuke. What a disgrace.

And it wasn't that difficult to call it way back in 2016 about this lowlife. The whole birther scene he made about Obama was the perfect example to show you what kind of a fool he is.

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## Sharma Ji

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump, McCain, Bush and Carter: different reactions to bad election results


Trump hasn't made a concession speech yet.


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## RabzonKhan




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## Sharma Ji

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 686675


and hopefully not startin' neocon/neolib wars all over the place again. 

hope America learnt something from the pre Trump 16 years of Bush-Obama disaster after foreign policy disaster.

what happens to talks with the DPRK now ? 

where does the Afghan peace deal and pullout stand with President Biden ? (that one should concern you a bit as someone with roots in Pakistan) 

This is probably, barring any new military misadventures, going to be the most boring 4 years ever.. he'll roll back Trump executive orders and try to reverse some policy.. what else ? 

Biden's whole thing was.. "not Trump", and it worked, but now he has boots to fill, what exactly is he going to do in terms of foreign policy, how will it differ from Trump's, and what big ideas does he have for Americans on the domestic policy front ?

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## RabzonKhan

dharmi said:


> and hopefully not startin' neocon/neolib wars all over the place again.
> 
> hope America learnt something from the pre Trump 16 years of Bush-Obama disaster after foreign policy disaster.
> 
> what happens to talks with the DPRK now ?
> 
> where does the Afghan peace deal and pullout stand with President Biden ? (that one should concern you a bit as someone with roots in Pakistan)
> 
> This is probably, barring any new military misadventures, going to be the most boring 4 years ever.. he'll roll back Trump executive orders and try to reverse some policy.. what else ?
> 
> Biden's whole thing was.. "not Trump", and it worked, but now he has boots to fill, what exactly is he going to do in terms of foreign policy, how will it differ from Trump's, and what big ideas does he have for Americans on the domestic policy front ?


I promise you I will respond to both of your posts, you know the last three weeks I was hardly getting four hours of sleep a day, so today I’m just relaxing and celebrating.

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## Sharma Ji

RabzonKhan said:


> I promise you I will respond to both of your posts, you know the last three weeks I was hardly getting four hours of sleep a day, so today I’m just relaxing and celebrating.



Celebrate away, man !
I'll raise a toast and join you too, democracy is a beautiful thing... true power to the people !  

Do look forward to your response though, no rush.

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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 686675



And he is a Corvette guy!

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## Bengal71

Gomig-21 said:


> When he was telling Netanyahu on speaker phone with the Sudanese Prime Minister and they were celebrating the normalization between Sudan and Israel if he thought that "Sleepy Joe could have done that deal" and Netanyahu paused for a very awkward few seconds before he said "well, we would welcome this kinda thing from aaaaannnnyyy one in the United States" and you could see Trump just lean back in disgust that his buddy Bibi and everything he's done for Israel with Jerusalem and the UAE and the phony balony peace plan with the Palestinians whom had 0 partcipation in that whatsoever LOL and then he didn't get complete loyalty and agreement on dissing Joe Biden from him?!?!? That's because Netanyahu saw the writing on the wall and he knew this guy wasn't going to last a 2nd term and last thing he wanted to do was start off on the wrong foot with Biden.
> 
> I thought it was pretty wild how he left Trump hanging completely and at the same time, shame on this dummy for even putting the guy on the spot with such a stupid and demeaning question! This is one of many reasons why he's completely unfit to be in this position.



The whole of Palestine/Jerusalem thing was the work of Jared Kushner. That guy is using the Trump family and the great Ivanka. Trump is a fvcken moron.

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## AViet

dharmi said:


> We're a lot better off than 70 years ago.
> 
> Indian democracy has not failed.



Even the world's poorest countries like Madagascar or Central Africa are a lot better than 70 years ago. It is not a rational excuse.

Modi seems to be a good leader. At least, he is a nationalist and wants India to get rid of colonial mentality. This is the utmost important step to develop India to a next level.

Vietnamese do not have colonial mentality thank to the wars against French and American invaders. Owing to that, now if we have problems, we will blame ourselves and try to solve by ourselves, not blame the former colonial masters for such illness.

That is why I see Modi as a capable leader. Even if he fails today, the India's future leaders can still inherit a better foundation

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## Sharma Ji

What happened in the 2020 election? Jared Taylor of American Renaissance analyzes the election results and explains what they mean for white people.









Brace Yourself for Biden/Harris


What happened in the 2020 election? Jared Taylor of American Renaissance analyzes the election results and explains what they mean for white people. Thumbnail credit: © Adam Schultz/Biden for President via ZUMA Wire The transcript of this vide…




www.bitchute.com


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

World Without Trump....what a boring place it would become ?
Feel like a good TV serial came to end , due to Director Strike

It was going so great , The wall was being built , USA pulled out of climate group , Red caps were popular celebrating stuff

Trump even defeated Covid

Yuge gains were made in USA Yuge ....who could forget the Yuge Duck in river in Australia

And how about the Giant executive orders, did any of you ever saw a an executive order before ? Sign ? But Trump showed it to you over again

Eating McDonalds Happy Meal Daily Trump showed us , that you can live Big but still be connected to every day man , eating McDonalds and asking for his happy meal

But those mail in voters took away his McDonald's Happy meal ? ! !!

A unique world personality


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## Xone

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> World Without Trump


sanity and empathy returned to the world.

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## KAL-EL

A better world..


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## TheDarkKnight

KAL-EL said:


> A better world..


Don’t know about the world but a better USA atleast ... for now.

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## Reichsmarschall

KAL-EL said:


> A better world..


Hardly any better when biden will wage countless new wars. Trump was a vulgar facist but his violence was confined mostly to twitter, Biden on the other hand is an old school imperialist.

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## atan651




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## Xone

Reichsmarschall said:


> Hardly any better when biden will wage countless new wars. Trump was a vulgar facist but his violence was confined mostly to twitter, Biden on the other hand is an old school imperialist.


Each president has been doing what he thinks is right for his country, Biden would not any different from Trump in this regard. only the way would be different but the purpose will remain to be the same.
Biden is far more mature in his reasoning and response from the trump.


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## reflecthofgeismar

Reichsmarschall said:


> Hardly any better when biden will wage countless new wars. Trump was a vulgar facist but his violence was confined mostly to twitter, Biden on the other hand is an old school imperialist.


The thing is.
Sleepy Creepy Joe Dementia Burden will forget which country he already attacked, so he will do it again.
For him it's "The day after every day."
"Who am I?" - Joe Biden
Biden's neighbour: "Hello Mr. President!"
Biden: "Where is the President?"




"If I can't sniff at you, you ain't a child. If you are nine, I think it's fine, if you are ten, we'll meet again." - video motto?
I'm pretty sure, Donnie was a big mouth, sometimes an asshole, because feelings shouldn't be that important in realpolitics but not a childtouching senile guy who belongs into a hospice.

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## Sharma Ji

Terribly depressing outcome for the world. Trump, brash as he was/is.. actually thought for himself and had all these ideas inside of him since decades, as president he rolled them out and got a lot of stuff done.

Biden is not Biden.. Biden is the establishment, the deep state, he's a mostly senile old man who will do their bidding.. the Bush'ite neocons and Clinton/Obama operatives are back in control. 

Orange man wasn't all that bad, in fact he was pretty good (warts and all).. the world will soon realize.

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## Menthol

Maybe Trump was not wrong.

But USA deep state government dislike him.

That is why he is always being slandered, mocked, etc.


So far, there's zero war under Trump.

And a world without Trump means war!

Instead of mocked, it will be praised and everyone is happily smiling.


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## YeBeWarned

World without Trump hmmmmmmmmmm... Only Jeff bezos will say that he have Billions and billions and billion


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## Hamartia Antidote

DeepFake Putin

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Heard Trump Owes 800 million dollars to many people in one of the Debates on National TV that is a serious amount
However if COVID had not happened I think Trump would have won based on his positive rating internally till that point 


The Covid pendemic and Black People Protest derailed his campaign and split up his vote bank


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## Gomig-21

Hamartia Antidote said:


> DeepFake Putin



BTW, did you catch that debacle that was the Rudy Giuliani press conference the other day and where it was?







Notice the interesting background to this press conference here with that green cinder brick wall and garage door and a very unusual place to have such an important press conference for the Trump campaign where he was basically accusing the voting system with fraud and that they weren't going to accept the results and would be filing lawsuits today etc.? Check out this little clip of this girl who could barely get through the explanation of what happened and why there were at such an unusual place looool.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325493923649781760
The Four Season's Landscaping is next to a crematorium and across the street was an adult book store lmaooooo!! Just another example of how disorganized this whole group of delinquents are lolol. Funny how this chick could barely get through that clip without laughing her guts out lOl!

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## Hamartia Antidote

Beidou2020 said:


> 48 hours until US descends into civil war.



LOL! Still waiting.

Again you only think this because you have a very very fragile society and you think this is common.

So far nothing much has happened as apparently the "rabid Right white nationalists" seem to be far far more restrained than the kooky rioting "rabid left crying Hillary liberals" from four years ago.





2016

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## Sharma Ji




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## RabzonKhan

While Trump a sore loser lies about election fraud (without any proof) and refuses to concede, even foreign leaders, however, are not buying his BS and are welcoming Biden’s victory.

Welcome back America. The world congratulates President-elect Joe Biden.

https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/s...joe-biden-on-us-presidential-election-win.htm



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325133262075940864


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325136167084363779


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325136218544173059


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325394312167878657


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325145671742054400


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325141308013305858

https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1325141322773098496?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1325141322773098496|twgr^share_3&ref_url=https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/07/world-congratulates-joe-biden-on-us-presidential-election-win.html

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## Hamartia Antidote

Beidou2020 said:


> 48 hours until US descends into civil war.



Still waiting

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## RabzonKhan

While Trump a sore loser lies about election fraud (without any proof) and refuses to concede, even foreign leaders, however, are not buying his BS and are welcoming Biden’s victory.

The world congratulates President-elect Joe Biden.


Canadian leader Justin Trudeau emphasized the close alliance between Canada and the US in his remarks.
"Congratulations Joe Biden and Kamala Harris," Trudeau wrote on Twitter. "Our two countries are close friends, partners and allies. We share a relationship that's unique on the world stage. I'm really looking forward to working together and building on that with you both."

Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison said in a statement that "the President-elect has been a great friend of Australia over many years," and noted that Biden will step into the role at a crucial time as the world battles the Covid-19 pandemic.
"American leadership is indispensable to meeting these challenges and upholding the rules, norms and standards of our international community," Morrison said.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325137277341691905

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325145433828593664

*Egyptian* President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi — was one of the first Arab leaders to congratulate Biden.


*The Dalai Lama* said in his congratulatory message to Biden: "Humanity places great hope in the democratic vision of the U.S. as leader of the free world."
*Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan* said he looked forward to working with Biden "to end illegal tax havens & stealth of nation's wealth by corrupt ldrs. We will also continue to work with US for peace in Afghanistan & in the region."
*South African* President Cyril Ramaphosa: "We look forward to working with you and deepening our bonds of friendship and cooperation."
*Irish* *Prime Minister Micheál Martin: "*Joe Biden has been a true friend of this nation throughout his life and I look forward to working with him in the years ahead."
*Italian* *Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte:* "We are ready to work with the President-elect @JoeBiden to make the transatlantic relationship stronger. The US can count on Italy as a solid Ally and a strategic partner."
*South Korean President Moon Jae-in:* "Our alliance is strong and the bond between our two countries is rock-solid. I very much look forward to working with you for our shared values."
*Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga:* "I look forward to working with you to further strengthen the Japan-US Alliance and ensure peace, freedom, and prosperity in the Indo-Pacific region and beyond.

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas also offered his congratulations to the winners of the US Presidential election.
In a statement released on the official Palestinian news agency Wafa, Abbas said he was "looking forward to working with President-elect Biden and his administration in order to enhance the Palestinian-American relations and achieve freedom, independence, justice and dignity for our people... and in order to achieve peace, stability and security for all in our region and the world."


London mayor Sadiq Khan said Biden and Harris' win meant it was "time to get back to building bridges, not walls" in a dig at President Trump's policy of building a wall at the US-Mexico border.

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## Beidou2020

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Still waiting



LOL exactly as I predicted is happening.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Beidou2020 said:


> LOL exactly as I predicted is happening.








LOL! Your typing fingers certainly are easily excited. That's the only thing happening.

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## Beidou2020

Hamartia Antidote said:


> View attachment 687372
> 
> LOL! Your typing fingers certainly are easily excited. That's the only thing happening.



Look at the US right now, it’s a mess. It will only get worse from here.


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## RabzonKhan



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## VCheng

Major change in the White House!

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## Gomig-21

VCheng said:


> Major change in the White House!
> 
> View attachment 687809



lol, you know what's interesting about that picture? I think that's Brigitte Macron and not Dr. Jill Biden but might be close enough LOL!











I just looked it up, he's 42 and she's 67! She's 2 years younger than Dr. Jill Biden. But it's interesting the age difference between her and Macron.

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## VCheng

Gomig-21 said:


> lol, you know what's interesting about that picture? I think that's Brigitte Macron and not Dr. Jill Biden but might be close enough LOL!



I know it is Brigitte Macron, but it was too good to pass up. 

(The point may still hold.)

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## TheDarkKnight

VCheng said:


> Major change in the White House!
> 
> View attachment 687809


Is there any possibility of “Meray Aziz Hamwatnon” in US?
I am thinking Trump imposes a martial law and then pardons him self for next 50 years. Or should he pardon himself first and then commit the crime?

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## Gomig-21

If there ever is a reason for him to need a pardon and he can't give himself one or arrange for Pence to give him one, can anyone imagine if it's left to Joe Biden and he actually does give Trump a pardon? That would be something.

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## RabzonKhan

*Here’s when the results of the 2020 election will be finalized*


*KEY POINTS*

While NBC News projects Joe Biden will defeat incumbent Donald Trump, the results of the presidential election won’t be finalized until January.
States certify election results, the Electoral College casts electoral votes, and Congress counts electoral votes.
Each state has its own timeline for certifying election results.





President-elect Joe Biden delivers remarks in Wilmington, Delaware, on Nov. 9, 2020.
Angela Weiss | AFP | Getty Images

Joe Biden is the president-elect of the United States, as NBC News projected Saturday, but the results of the election won’t be finalized until January.
https://defence.pk/pdf/javascript:void(0)

*Where things stand in the Electoral College right now*



In a controversial move, Trump has refused to concede the election and is mounting efforts to challenge ballot counts in multiple states, even as tabulation continues.
Here are the key steps in the Electoral College process between now and Inauguration Day:

*States certify election results*

Local election officials tabulate votes, including any mail ballots received after Election Day in states that allow them. After local results are verified by local election officials, the governor or other state official certifies the statewide results. The governor then prepares official documents with the state’s formalized election outcomes and slate of electors.
Each state has its own timeline for certifying election results. Here are key dates in swing states:

*Arizona*
Election officials have until Nov. 23 to finalize local results. The secretary of state certifies statewide results on Nov. 30.

*Pennsylvania*
By Nov. 10, local election officials must provide unofficial vote tallies to the secretary of the commonwealth. Nov. 23 is the last day for local officials to submit certified election results.
If there’s a difference of 0.5% or less between the winner and the loser, the secretary of the commonwealth must order a recount by Nov. 12. If at least three voters in each county allege errors or discrepancies in the count, a recount could also be triggered. Any recount must be completed by Nov. 24, and local election officials must submit certified recount results to the secretary of the commonwealth by Nov. 25.

*Michigan*
Local election officials must complete counting by Nov. 17 and send results to the secretary of state within 24 hours. Election officials meet Nov. 23 to certify election results. Any petitions for recount must be submitted by Nov. 25, or within 48 hours after the end of the certification meeting.

*Wisconsin*
County officials have until Nov. 17 to finalize local election tallies. Under Wisconsin law, an “aggrieved” candidate can request a recount if they received within 1% of the winner’s vote total. The loser can file a petition for a recount no later than 5 p.m. on the first business day after the state election commission has received final results from all counties. The Trump campaign has called for a recount in Wisconsin, where NBC News has Biden projected to win.
The Trump campaign would also have to pay the state for the cost of conducting the recount. It could total in the millions of dollars.
The Wisconsin Elections Commission must certify statewide results by Dec. 1.

*Georgia*
Local election officials must certify county results and send tallies to the secretary of state by Nov. 13. The secretary of state has until Nov. 20 to certify statewide results. The losing candidate is allowed to request a recount in Georgia if they lost an election by less than 0.5% of the total votes. That request can only be made to the secretary of state within two business days after the election results are certified.
Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger said Friday a recount is expected in the state, as Biden currently holds a narrow lead.

*North Carolina*
County election officials meet on Nov. 13 to finalize county tallies. The State Board of Elections meets on Nov. 24 to certify statewide results.

*Dec. 8 — Last day for states to resolve election disputes*
States must certify election outcomes at least six days before the Electoral College meets — known as the “safe harbor” deadline — if they want to avoid Congress getting involved in resolving potential disputes. That means any court challenges to state election results must be settled by Dec. 8, 2020.
If states certify election outcomes by this deadline, Congress must accept the results as valid.

*Dec. 14 — Electors cast their ballots*
Electors meet in their respective states to cast their ballots for president and vice president on the Monday after the second Wednesday in December.
In every state except Nebraska and Maine, electors vote on a “winner takes all” basis, meaning whichever candidate wins the state’s presidential race receives all of the state’s electoral votes.
Electors send certificates of their vote to various officials, including Vice President Mike Pence, serving as president of the Senate.

*Dec. 23 — President of the Senate receives electoral vote certificates*
Pence must receive the formal electoral vote certificates no later than nine days after electors meet.

*Jan. 6 — Congress counts electoral votes*
The House and Senate convene for a joint session on Jan. 6 to count electoral votes. Pence presides over the process as president of the Senate and announces the results. The candidate that receives at least 270 out of 538 electoral votes becomes the next president.
Any objections to the electoral votes must be submitted in writing and signed by at least one House and one Senate member. If an objection arises, the two chambers consider the objection separately.

*Jan. 20 — Inauguration Day*
The president-elect and vice president-elect are sworn into office and officially become the president and vice president of the United States on Inauguration Day. *Source*


Gomig-21 said:


> If there ever is a reason for him to need a pardon and he can't give himself one or arrange for Pence to give him one, can anyone imagine if it's left to Joe Biden and he actually does give Trump a pardon? That would be something.


Biden has categorically stated that he will not pardon Trump or block investigations against him. But I’m sure Trump will do what no other president has done, he is going to pardon himself.

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## Gomig-21

VCheng said:


> I know it is Brigitte Macron, but it was too good to pass up.
> 
> (The point may still hold.)



You know, because I despised the orange baboon (whom just FYI I actually met him back in the mid-90's funny story I'll tell it one day lol) but his bigotry against Muslims was obviously my biggest issue with him and then name your poison after that the list has long legs!!!! But throughout all that, I think I tried to dislike Melania just by default and I looked for every single other reason than her association and you know what? I could never find a reason to dislike her. Nothing she ever did or say came close to making me dislike her and actually quite the opposite. 

The way she handled herself during john McCain's funeral was exceptional and actually quite first lady-like, especially with the pressure of the moment, all the other ex presidents and first ladies bringing the heavy vibin heat and how they view her probably simply as a trophy wife and that's it! But she handled that whole thing just beautifully and elegantly and very first lady like that I actually admire her quite a bit and feel sorry for her.


----------



## VCheng

Gomig-21 said:


> You know, because I despised the orange baboon (whom just FYI I actually met him back in the mid-90's funny story I'll tell it one day lol) but his bigotry against Muslims was obviously my biggest issue with him and then name your poison after that the list has long legs!!!! But throughout all that, I think I tried to dislike Melania just by default and I looked for every single other reason than her association and you know what? I could never find a reason to dislike her. Nothing she ever did or say came close to making me dislike her and actually quite the opposite.
> 
> The way she handled herself during john McCain's funeral was exceptional and actually quite first lady-like, especially with the pressure of the moment, all the other ex presidents and first ladies bringing the heavy vibin heat and how they view her probably simply as a trophy wife and that's it! But she handled that whole thing just beautifully and elegantly and very first lady like that I actually admire her quite a bit and feel sorry for her.



No need to feel sorry for her. She is actually a smart woman who knew what she was getting into when she married him as a transactional arrangement. Rumor has it that she will file for divorce as soon as Trump is no longer President.


TheDarkKnight said:


> Is there any possibility of “Meray Aziz Hamwatnon” in US?
> I am thinking Trump imposes a martial law and then pardons him self for next 50 years. Or should he pardon himself first and then commit the crime?



Absolutely ZERO chance.


----------



## Gomig-21

VCheng said:


> No need to feel sorry for her. She is actually a smart woman who knew what she was getting into when she married him as a transactional arrangement. Rumor has it that she will file for divorce as soon as Trump is no longer President.



Well, what's going to be even more interesting that that is what the hell is gonna happen to the orangutan? He was banking so badly on this 2nd term to work out a lot of his personal issues with the law in the many forms in which they will come up in including the Deutche Bank loans of over $400 million that are due soon? All the possible indictments on him that couldn't be filed at the time of his presidency because of the "unwritten rule" of not indicting a sitting president might suddenly all show up like the Russia thing. That could certainly rear its ugly head again and so in other words, he has a whole slew of problems he could be facing and he knows it and his plan was to take care of all these things in his 2nd term but now he has about 2 months to do it. 

So what does he do? Resign and let Pence become interim president who then can pardon him just like Nixon and Ford did? That might be his only option at this point! What a shebang that would be.

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## RabzonKhan

The End Is Here:

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> The End Is Here:



And how ironic is it that the final count is exactly the same as in 2016? Except he's the one with the 232 and not Hilary or Biden and I doubt Biden will spend the next year flaunting what a "landslide" victory it was like he did for even more than a year. Karma is a bitch.

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Biden has categorically stated that he will not pardon Trump or block investigations against him. But I’m sure Trump will do what no other president has done, he is going to pardon himself.



He did? I must've missed that. I can see him not blocking any investigations against him but I see him being a "fraternity" guy. In other words, there must be a presidential fraternity no matter what happened in the past and no matter what partisanship is involved.

Anyway, what the orangutan is doing now by not conceding and trying everything in his power to cast fraud on the electoral process is shameful. It's a culmination of what we, as Americans, have dealt with in the past 4 years with this clown in charge of the highest office seat. Every day it's a slap in the face with whatever new bombshell this completely inept clown is going to do now. Honestly I think the larger majority of this country can't wait until he disappears and there is some semblance of normalcy that returns to everyday political life. And especially to take control of this virus before it really destroys this country.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Gomig-21 said:


> including the Deutche Bank loans of over $400 million that are due soon?



I'm sure those aren't personal loans so he can just fold the company(s) if they can't pay.

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## Loki

What real embarrassing is not this Clown but 72 millions clowns who think that he Win and elections voting is a fraud. 
A Super power whose 72 millions population thinking is worst then people in third world countries even they understand a snake oil man sales person. All big cities where educated people lives went to Biden but all areas outside where a simple hard working people lives goes Red. I am a registered Republican but knew since he started his election bid in 2015 that he is nothing but a Con artist and a snake oil salesmen. He only care about himself and may be his children's.
Unfortunately his era is not over he and his family is another NS and Bhutto family who wants to suck the blood of there people and make fool out of them.


Gomig-21 said:


> He did? I must've missed that. I can see him not blocking any investigations against him but I see him being a "fraternity" guy. In other words, there must be a presidential fraternity no matter what happened in the past and no matter what partisanship is involved.
> 
> Anyway, what the orangutan is doing now by not conceding and trying everything in his power to cast fraud on the electoral process is shameful. It's a culmination of what we, as Americans, have dealt with in the past 4 years with this clown in charge of the highest office seat. Every day it's a slap in the face with whatever new bombshell this completely inept clown is going to do now. Honestly I think the larger majority of this country can't wait until he disappears and there is some semblance of normalcy that returns to everyday political life. And especially to take control of this virus before it really destroys this country.

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## VCheng

Gomig-21 said:


> Well, what's going to be even more interesting that that is what the hell is gonna happen to the orangutan? He was banking so badly on this 2nd term to work out a lot of his personal issues with the law in the many forms in which they will come up in including the Deutche Bank loans of over $400 million that are due soon? All the possible indictments on him that couldn't be filed at the time of his presidency because of the "unwritten rule" of not indicting a sitting president might suddenly all show up like the Russia thing. That could certainly rear its ugly head again and so in other words, he has a whole slew of problems he could be facing and he knows it and his plan was to take care of all these things in his 2nd term but now he has about 2 months to do it.
> 
> So what does he do? Resign and let Pence become interim president who then can pardon him just like Nixon and Ford did? That might be his only option at this point! What a shebang that would be.



As I always say, let due process complete. We shall soon know.

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## SQ8

Gomig-21 said:


> He did? I must've missed that. I can see him not blocking any investigations against him but I see him being a "fraternity" guy. In other words, there must be a presidential fraternity no matter what happened in the past and no matter what partisanship is involved.
> 
> Anyway, what the orangutan is doing now by not conceding and trying everything in his power to cast fraud on the electoral process is shameful. It's a culmination of what we, as Americans, have dealt with in the past 4 years with this clown in charge of the highest office seat. Every day it's a slap in the face with whatever new bombshell this completely inept clown is going to do now. Honestly I think the larger majority of this country can't wait until he disappears and there is some semblance of normalcy that returns to everyday political life. And especially to take control of this virus before it really destroys this country.


The number of armed goons he has going for him and the misinformation network that supports him is quite a bit. He isn’t the problem - its managing his followers and their alternate reality that is.

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## Sharma Ji

So Steven Crowder just overtook the young turks as the biggest youtube news show

he's really good, funny guy.. leans right of course


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## Gomig-21

So if this turns out to be true, I truly hope it leads to the end of that worthless sack of crap Lindsey Graham and an end to his painful tenure of ultimate hypocrisy. Let's hope it leads to either his retirement or hiss impeachment!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328513208282456069

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## Beast

__





Redirect Notice






www.google.com

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## retaxis

Indians are seen around the world as equal to sub saharan africans (without the athletic ability). Funny that they have such high opinion of themselves.

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## type93

They can target Indians all they want, I don’t understand why they have to target innocent blacks people?

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## PradoTLC

retaxis said:


> Indians are seen around the world as equal to sub saharan africans (without the athletic ability). Funny that they have such high opinion of themselves.




that is because all indians suffer from Kluger Dunning effect...


_*"the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability. It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from the inability of people to recognize their lack of ability."





*_

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## Beast

retaxis said:


> Indians are seen around the world as equal to sub saharan africans (without the athletic ability). Funny that they have such high opinion of themselves.


Yet indians still worship and licking toes for Trump.





__





Redirect Notice






www.google.com






I guess they don't mind being slaves. 

Trump shall considered retired in India. He will be the God which he always wish for, in India. 


type93 said:


> They can target Indians all they want, I don’t understand why they have to target innocent blacks people?


White are racist. They believe this world is created around them.

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## hussain0216

In Indian minds they stand shoulder to shoulder with white right wing nationalists


My personal opinion is because of deep seated caste system in Hindu mind where they will oppose any one seemed lower down or rocking the system



Everywhere else they are just Kala skinny indians

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## Hamartia Antidote

Beast said:


> White are racist.



Nowhere near as racist as Chinese. You guys are maybe only outdone by the Koreans who don't like anybody (including white people).

Get a bunch of Chinese together in a conversation and they'll openly and happily sh*t on every people from Asia and Africa. It's so bad they even scold their kids for wasting time having them as friends. It's like being at a KKK meeting except everybody under the hoods is Chinese. Definitely not politically correct.


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## Taimoor Khan

Trump by stopping India's favourite H1B visas might actually be doing a favour for them. Too many Indians in America and west anyway.


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## Rafale+Meteor+Spectra

Beast said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com





retaxis said:


> Indians are seen around the world as equal to sub saharan africans (without the athletic ability). Funny that they have such high opinion of themselves.





type93 said:


> They can target Indians all they want, I don’t understand why they have to target innocent blacks people?





PradoTLC said:


> that is because all indians suffer from Kluger Dunning effect...
> 
> 
> _*"the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability. It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from the inability of people to recognize their lack of ability."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *_


Epic Fail.

The placard was talking about American-Indians (also known as Native Americans) and not Asian Indians or Indian-Americans.

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## tower9

Beast said:


> Yet indians still worship and licking toes for Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess they don't mind being slaves.
> 
> Trump shall considered retired in India. He will be the God which he always wish for, in India.
> 
> White are racist. They believe this world is created around them.



Indian Americans by and large are liberal and vote Democratic. Most young Indian Americans grow up in privileged circumstances, in wealthy suburbs of large metropolitan areas and these areas are heavily indoctrinated by the Democratic Party. 

Older Indian immigrants however may vote Republican because they are largely conservative, pro-business and want White validation/acceptance.


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## zectech

I am guessing they are calling Native Americans 'Indians' or is this hate targeted at Kamala Harris and India.

Since these racists hate everybody, it could be both. This is why Chinese & Asians & Muslims should not take this personally, these are nazi bigots, and idiots like Macron and trump are already losers. They try to provoke and start fights and bully, they are really mentally ill. Since they are nazis, they like to take out their hatred by starting wars and causing worldwide misery.

Native Americans were vital for the victory in Arizona according to media reports.

Black voters supposedly delivered Georgia to biden, according to the media.

Nazis gonna nazi:





__





Hate crimes in U.S. reach highest level in over a decade






www.msn.com





If the CiA installs trump into 2nd term through 'courts' and 'lawsuits', things are going to get interesting.


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## W.11

funny thing is far right radicals support hindutvas in the social media against islamophobia.

regards


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## tower9

zectech said:


> I am guessing they are calling Native Americans 'Indians' or is this hate targeted at Kamala Harris and India.
> 
> Since these racists hate everybody, it could be both. This is why Chinese & Asians & Muslims should not take this personally, these are nazi bigots, and idiots like Macron and trump are already losers. They try to provoke and start fights and bully, they are really mentally ill. Since they are nazis, they like to take out their hatred by starting wars and causing worldwide misery.
> 
> Native Americans were vital for the victory in Arizona according to media reports.
> 
> Black voters supposedly delivered Georgia to biden, according to the media.
> 
> Nazis gonna nazi:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hate crimes in U.S. reach highest level in over a decade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the CiA installs trump into 2nd term through 'courts' and 'lawsuits', things are going to get interesting.



This is specifically targeted against Kamala. So South Asians & Blacks are the targets.


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## masterchief_mirza

W.11 said:


> funny thing is far right radicals support hindutvas in the social media against islamophobia.
> 
> regards


"Support" is a generous interpretation. "Use" is a better word to describe the relationship.


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## Flash_Ninja

Rafale+Meteor+Spectra said:


> Epic Fail.
> 
> The placard was talking about American-Indians (also known as Native Americans) and not Asian Indians or Indian-Americans.



Native Americans are 0.8% of their population. Indians are 5.9% of the population excluding American born.

Still even ignoring this, its hilarious that a group of people who constantly claim to be the successors of "ancient civilisations" dont even have ownership of their own name. I guess thats what happens though when you name your country after an already used geographical expression.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Rafale+Meteor+Spectra said:


> Epic Fail.
> 
> The placard was talking about American-Indians (also known as Native Americans) and not Asian Indians or Indian-Americans.



Actually you may be correct because some people are really upset over all the Team name changes after the George Floyd fallout.









7 Sports Teams Who've Changed Their Names or Mascots Over Racist Origins


With Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben's changing their logos due to racist origins, there have been [...]




popculture.com













Trump Opposes Changing Team Names of Redskins, Indians


Trump Opposes Changing Team Names of Redskins, Indians




www.bloombergquint.com













NFL's Washington Redskins to change name following years of backlash


The team has not released what the new name will be.




abcnews.go.com













Why are the Cleveland Indians changing their name? Cleveland Colavitos? Cleveland Buckeyes? – Hey, Terry!


Fans have lots of opinions about the Cleveland Indians changing their names. And they have fun suggestions.




www.cleveland.com






It could be worse I guess








26 States That Were Named By Native Americans, Was Your State?


14. Mississippi – From the Choctaw word meaning “Great water” or “Father of Waters.”




thoughtcatalog.com


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## tower9

Flash_Ninja said:


> Native Americans are 0.8% of their population. Indians are 5.9% of the population excluding American born.
> 
> Still even ignoring this, its hilarious that a group of people who constantly claim to be the successors of "ancient civilisations" dont even have ownership of their own name. I guess thats what happens though when you name your country after an already used geographical expression.



No way are they 5.9%. I think that's the number for Asians as a whole. I think Indians are only maybe 1% if even that.

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## rent4country

Beast said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


INDIANS= NATIVE INDIANS... lol Chinese


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Beast said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com






These whites will easily be able to pulverise and batter the indians to a pulp but will literally get slaughtered by the blacks. whites don't and can't mess with blacks.


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## Hamartia Antidote

tower9 said:


> No way are they 5.9%. I think that's the number for Asians as a whole. I think Indians are only maybe 1% if even that.



The population of the US is ~320M. Before say 1998 the Indian population was almost non-existent.. There is no way that many people were allowed in to hit 5% in just the last 25 years.


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## masterchief_mirza

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Actually you may be correct because some people are really upset over all the Team name changes after the George Floyd fallout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7 Sports Teams Who've Changed Their Names or Mascots Over Racist Origins
> 
> 
> With Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben's changing their logos due to racist origins, there have been [...]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> popculture.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump Opposes Changing Team Names of Redskins, Indians
> 
> 
> Trump Opposes Changing Team Names of Redskins, Indians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloombergquint.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NFL's Washington Redskins to change name following years of backlash
> 
> 
> The team has not released what the new name will be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abcnews.go.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why are the Cleveland Indians changing their name? Cleveland Colavitos? Cleveland Buckeyes? – Hey, Terry!
> 
> 
> Fans have lots of opinions about the Cleveland Indians changing their names. And they have fun suggestions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cleveland.com


Indians love Trump. They're not sure why Trump's white supporters are so angry at them.









Mohan Guruswamy | Why so many US desis are in favour of Trump


A recent opinion poll in the US suggests that some 28 per cent of Indian origin voters are leaning towards Trump and the rest are for Biden




www.google.com





Can you shed any light on why MAGA has a problem with Indians?


----------



## tower9

Hamartia Antidote said:


> The population of the US is ~320M. Before say 1998 the Indian population was almost non-existent other than Babu from the Simpsons. There no way that many people were allowed in to hit 5% in the last 25 years.



They are 3.8 million according to this, so 1.2%. I am shocked even by that amount. When I was a kid, I barely saw any Indians, but now I see a lot of them. 









Indian Americans - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






masterchief_mirza said:


> Indians love Trump. They're *not sure why Trump's white supporters are so angry at them.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mohan Guruswamy | Why so many US desis are in favour of Trump
> 
> 
> A recent opinion poll in the US suggests that some 28 per cent of Indian origin voters are leaning towards Trump and the rest are for Biden
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you shed any light on why MAGA has a problem with Indians?



If they are not sure, that means they are dumb as rocks. 

They are dark, foreign, with a weird culture and Kamala is half-Indian. How is that hard to understand? Hindu culture is probably the weirdest fucking thing on earth to a WASP, more foreign than African American, Latino, East Asian or even Muslim cultures are.


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## Hamartia Antidote

tower9 said:


> They are 3.8 million according to this, so 1.2%. I am shocked even by that amount. When I was a kid, I barely saw any Indians, but now I see a lot of them.



Totally agree. Even here in the NorthEast where it is more of a melting pot I rarely ever saw an Indian before 1990. None even in a college with International students. First worked with a single one in 1994 in a big company. It was only after the dotcom bust that they started being noticeable. Now I see a lot of them.


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## tower9

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Totally agree. Even here in the NorthEast where it is more of a melting pot I rarely ever saw an Indian before 1990. None even in a college with International students. First worked with a single one in 1994 in a big company. It was only after the dotcom bust that they started being noticeable. Now I see a lot of them.



Started noticing them in very large numbers just in the last 10-15 years. It hit me when I would go to camping sites and stop by the big visitor centers where tourists go and I would see huge Indian families with their extended relatives milling around taking photos, even though they never went hiking or camping. LMAO


----------



## Rafale+Meteor+Spectra

Flash_Ninja said:


> Native Americans are 0.8% of their population. Indians are 5.9% of the population excluding American born.
> 
> Still even ignoring this, its hilarious that a group of people who constantly claim to be the successors of "ancient civilisations" dont even have ownership of their own name. I guess thats what happens though when you name your country after an already used geographical expression.


Wrong.
The placard was by some redneck from South Dakota where natives are 5% of population and Indians less than 0.1% (and lots of racial tensions between whites and natives in SD).

Anways the natives got the name Indians from us as Columbus thought he reached India and not vice versa


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## tower9

Rafale+Meteor+Spectra said:


> Wrong.
> The placard was by some redneck from South Dakota where natives are 5% of population and Indians less than 0.1% (an dlots of racual tensions between whites and natives in SD).
> 
> Anways the natives got the name Indians from us as Columbus thought he reached India and not vice versa



Oh, if it was in SD, then it was definitely about the Native Americans then. A lot of tension between the Lakota and Whites there.


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## Hamartia Antidote

tower9 said:


> Started noticing them in very large numbers just in the last 10-15 years. It hit me when I would go to camping sites and stop by the big visitor centers where tourists go and I would see huge Indian families with their extended relatives milling around taking photos, even though they never went hiking or camping. LMAO



Dotcom bust (2000) made getting computer science degrees not appealing anymore. When tech got hot again H1B's started rolling in to fill in the manpower gaps.

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## newb3e

#howdyDooluund


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## Flash_Ninja

Rafale+Meteor+Spectra said:


> Wrong.
> The placard was by some redneck from South Dakota where natives are 5% of population and Indians less than 0.1% (and lots of racial tensions between whites and natives in SD).
> 
> Anways the natives got the name Indians from us as Columbus thought he reached India and not vice versa



It is funny how you people are confused with natives and are basically invisible considering you literally claimed to be running NASA in the past. It seems despite all the Trump worshiping, his supporters still dont even attribute the term "Indian" to you people.

... and like I said despite all of you claiming to be the succesors of "ancient civilisations", all you actually did was name your country after an established geographical term so naturally there would be some confusion.



tower9 said:


> No way are they 5.9%. I think that's the number for Asians as a whole. I think Indians are only maybe 1% if even that.



Yeah my bad I mean, of the total non-american population Indians are 5.9%, off the entire population that same group is around 1%.


----------



## TheTruth

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Nowhere near as racist as Chinese. You guys are maybe only outdone by the Koreans who don't like anybody (including white people).
> 
> Get a bunch of Chinese together in a conversation and they'll openly and happily sh*t on every people from Asia and Africa. It's so bad they even scold their kids for wasting time having them as friends. It's like being at a KKK meeting except everybody under the hoods is Chinese. Definitely not politically correct.



WAHHWAHHH WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

How many black people, Jews and Arabs did the Chinese shoot up in the past decade again?

Meanwhile you hypocritical white pigs have murdered 2 million in the Middle East and made 55 million homeless.

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## Beast

rent4country said:


> INDIANS= NATIVE INDIANS... lol Chinese


I guess it hurts u badly to be classify as inferior by your white master in US. 


Hamartia Antidote said:


> Nowhere near as racist as Chinese. You guys are maybe only outdone by the Koreans who don't like anybody (including white people).
> 
> Get a bunch of Chinese together in a conversation and they'll openly and happily sh*t on every people from Asia and Africa. It's so bad they even scold their kids for wasting time having them as friends. It's like being at a KKK meeting except everybody under the hoods is Chinese. Definitely not politically correct.


Typical side track. Did Chinese place cardboard to discriminate other races or legal to do so? After American white proven to be racist, all u can do is to accuse others of sin to divert your criminal act. 

You just prove my reply.


----------



## waz

MilSpec said:


> Looks like your flock started the party without you guys... @The Eagle @waz Do chime in.




Can’t be as bad yourself oh moral one one the high horse , enjoyed the killing of any Kashmiris lately? You were laughing in the face of the legitimate grievances.


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## MilSpec

waz said:


> *Can’t be as bad yourself oh moral one one the high horse* , enjoyed the killing of any Kashmiris lately? You were laughing in the face of the legitimate grievances.


If only all of your 5ft 4inches could write a legible sentence  , nevertheless why would I enjoy the killing of our countrymen?

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## Beast

MilSpec said:


> If only all of your 5ft 4inches could write a legible sentence  , nevertheless why would I enjoy the killing of our countrymen?


Maybe a ban is suitable for you. @waz

Here is PDF and not Indian defence forum. If u are not happy, u can leave. 

Nobody forced u to stay and whined.

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## zain41

Rafale+Meteor+Spectra said:


> Epic Fail.
> 
> The placard was talking about American-Indians (also known as Native Americans) and not Asian Indians or Indian-Americans.


L

lmao how naive are you


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

If indians don't like PDF then they are more than welcome to leave. NO-ONE is forcing them to be here. There are literally 1000s of indian forums for them to go to.


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## rent4country

Beast said:


> I guess it hurts u badly to be classify as inferior by your white master in US.



I'm white. There are no masters in the US. Your government thinks of you as being inferior to where they have to control you from the cradle to the grave. Even blacks in S Africa pre apartheid had more rights given to them from their government over what you have now.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

IF whites start to beat indians, there is NOTHING the indians will be able to do about it......... 

Unlike Muslims and blacks, indians cannot physically handle whites..........


----------



## Beast

rent4country said:


> I'm white. There are no masters in the US. Your government thinks of you as being inferior to where they have to control you from the cradle to the grave. They tell you how to speak, behave, listen to, and read, because of the low opinion they have yo...and we agree with the CCP in this regard. Even blacks in S Africa pre apartheid had more rights given to them from their government over what you have now.


Lol... The bitter admittance of being Indian must have felt inferior to u. Your past track posting already reveal your race. 

But I can understand your rationale since being Indian has little to brag about or argue against others more superior nation.


----------



## rent4country

Beast said:


> Lol... The bitter admittance of being Indian must have felt inferior to u. Your past track posting already reveal your race.
> 
> But I can understand your rationale since being Indian has little to brag about or argue against others more superior nation.



You can call me Indian until the cows come home. AND if I were, I would still be an American with more rights than a Chinese. How sad it is to have your own Chinese government take one look at your kind and said, "yup- we need to make sure we tell them what to say, behave, read, and act". Can't get treated any more as an inferior...

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## Hamartia Antidote

TheTruth said:


> WAHHWAHHH WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> 
> How many black people, Jews and Arabs did the Chinese shoot up in the past decade again?
> 
> Meanwhile you hypocritical white pigs have murdered 2 million in the Middle East and made 55 million homeless.



Idiot, you don't have to kill people to be an extreme racist.
David Duke was a leader of the KKK and he didn't kill anybody.










I think you'd rather ask the US military to pull your butt off the edge of a cliff than Duke....because he would just laugh at you.


----------



## paritosh

The Pakistanis jumping for joy at this news seem to forget that Indians and Pakistanis get clubbed together in the eyes of an illiterate red-neck.


----------



## Beast

rent4country said:


> You can call me Indian until the cows come home. AND if I were, I would still be an American with more rights than a Chinese. How sad it is to have your own Chinese government take one look at your kind and said, "yup- we need to make sure we tell them what to say, behave, read, and act". Can't get treated any more as an inferior...


Indeed , the right to rape, slave, violent ,cheat, steal and discriminate against others are also part of the package as American.

I will rather stay as Chinese citizen to enjoy more fairer and peaceful lives. I do not want to be killed by covid-19 as part of the package of freedom offer by USA. 

Let me repeat again. White racist american will never accept Indian as their own.


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

Beast said:


> Typical side track. Did Chinese place cardboard to discriminate other races or legal to do so? After American white proven to be racist, all u can do is to accuse others of sin to divert your criminal act.
> 
> You just prove my reply.



Hey remember the signs like this in China..you have a short memory


----------



## zain41

paritosh said:


> The Pakistanis jumping for joy at this news seem to forget that Indians and Pakistanis get clubbed together in the eyes of an illiterate red-neck.



But you guys were the ones making temples for trump and kissing his behind.. we are jumping in joy from that perspective


----------



## Indus Pakistan

Flash_Ninja said:


> Still even ignoring this, its hilarious that a group of people who constantly claim to be the successors of "ancient civilisations" dont even have ownership of their own name. I guess thats what happens though when you name your country after an *already used geographical expression*.


I can't count the number of times I have come across the "India" being used to appropropriate everything including our hertitage all because of the name "India". Nice to see now Indian's trying wiggle out of the "India" web they normally spin.



Rafale+Meteor+Spectra said:


> The placard was talking about American-Indians (also known as Native Americans) and *not* Asian Indians or Indian-Americans.

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## waz

MilSpec said:


> If only all of your 5ft 4inches could write a legible sentence  , nevertheless why would I enjoy the killing of our countrymen?



I'm no where near 5ft 4, which is quite exact by the way I feel for you. Oh and plenty of folks have met me off here to prove that. You make me laugh (not a compliment) and just like the many other voices on the net I've come across over the years, all hot air, that I couldn't give a toss about.
As for "legible" sentences, it's dumbed down for your level, please appreciate the things I do for you.

As for the killing of your 'countrymen', you were the one laughing at their cries for help. Folks like yourself often have a more gratuitous side to them.


Beast said:


> Maybe a ban is suitable for you. @waz
> 
> Here is PDF and not Indian defence forum. If u are not happy, u can leave.
> 
> Nobody forced u to stay and whined.



No I’m enjoying watching him act up. It’s hilarious.

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## Hamartia Antidote

rent4country said:


> I'm white.



I warned you PDF is full of Chinese trolls. They have been calling me an Indian/Vietnamese almost every day for 7 years now. They have chased off all the Japanese members with incessant trolling.

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## RabzonKhan



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## Philosopher

*Trump FIRES cybersecurity chief, after his agency calls election ‘most secure in history’*

President Donald Trump has fired the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency head Chris Krebs over a "highly inaccurate" elections’ statement. The agency stated that the 2020 election was the most secure in US history.
_“The recent statement by Chris Krebs on the security of the 2020 Election was highly inaccurate, in that there were massive improprieties and fraud – including dead people voting, Poll Watchers not allowed into polling locations, ‘glitches’ in the voting machines which changed votes from Trump to Biden, late voting, and many more,”_ Trump tweeted on Tuesday evening, adding that Krebs has been terminated _“effective immediately.”_


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328852352787484677
Technically, it wasn’t Krebs who issued the statement, but advisory bodies to CISA, the Elections Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council and the Elections Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Executive Committee. _“There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised,”_ the two bodies said on Thursday, in a statement published by CISA.
Since then, however, thousands of votes have been found on memory sticks and the Trump campaign presented a list of people who allegedly voted while dead in several states. Mainstream media outlets have cited the CISA-publishes statement as proof there had been no _“widespread”_ or _“systemic”_ fraud in the November 3 election, while social media platforms have cracked down on any deviations from that line by labeling them as _“disputed.”_









'Highly inaccurate': Trump FIRES cybersecurity chief after his agency calls election ‘most secure in history’


President Donald Trump has fired the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency head Chris Krebs over a "highly inaccurate" election statement. The agency stated that the 2020 election was the most secure in US history.




www.rt.com

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> And how ironic is it that the final count is exactly the same as in 2016? Except he's the one with the 232 and not Hilary or Biden and I doubt Biden will spend the next year flaunting what a "landslide" victory it was like he did for even more than a year. Karma is a bitch.


Even though, the 2020 electoral vote is exactly the same as the 2016 electoral vote. But the popular vote totals are substantially different from 2016, in 2016 Hillary defeated Trump in the popular vote by nearly 3 million. Biden so far has secured nearly 6 million more votes than Trump.

Now, that is a landslide.

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## Sharma Ji

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 688938


Libya, Syria & made Iraq worse, "arab spring"... Iraq & Afghanistan... Kosovo, blue dress and cigar

and a muslim cheering these scoundrels, how pathetic

Trump: 

first president since Carter to not start a major war
Israeli Arab peace deal
Kosovo Serbia peace deal
Dialogue with DPRK
Wiped out ISIS
No regime change in Syria


----------



## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> *Anyway, what the orangutan is doing now by not conceding and trying everything in his power to cast fraud on the electoral process is shameful. It's a culmination of what we, as Americans, have dealt with in the past 4 years with this clown in charge of the highest office seat. Every day it's a slap in the face with whatever new bombshell this completely inept clown is going to do now. * Honestly I think the larger majority of this country can't wait until he disappears and there is some semblance of normalcy that returns to everyday political life. And especially to take control of this virus before it really destroys this country.

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## Beast

Hamartia Antidote said:


> I warned you PDF is full of Chinese trolls. They have been calling me an Indian/Vietnamese almost every day for 7 years now. They have chased off all the Japanese members with incessant trolling.


Yup, like nihonji who is an indonesian but impersonate as Japanese. There are plenty of CIA agent or troll with intention to smear China coming here to post.


Hamartia Antidote said:


> Hey remember the signs like this in China..you have a short memory
> View attachment 688936


Lol, this is a typical American misleading photo or article about signboard from China. An african black with covid-19 escape from quarantine and go hotpot with his roommate and start a spread with his black community at height of covid-19 in China. The Chinese fear of covid-19 that time is due to this incident. Nothing to do becos he is black. Subsequent, this sign is taken down by authority.

While the sign out up by white racist in American are legal and is due to their racism exist for hundred of years of white supremacy. No matter what good things black do, they will always be discriminate becos white supremacy leader are always on helms.


----------



## retaxis

Hamartia Antidote said:


> I warned you PDF is full of Chinese trolls. They have been calling me an Indian/Vietnamese almost every day for 7 years now. They have chased off all the Japanese members with incessant trolling.


Why Indian even on PDF? Chinese are friends with Pakistanis so we join to share common cause. Indian like you join only reason to troll and you complain about trolls. You are shameless hypocrite and everyone can see it.

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## paritosh

zain41 said:


> But you guys were the ones making temples for trump and kissing his behind.. we are jumping in joy from that perspective


What a gross generalisation.
Are all Pakistan's claiming to be Trump's lost children?








Trump's Pakistani 'daughter' misses him, claims he misses her too | NewsBytes


US President Donald Trump has quite a long and extended family




www.newsbytesapp.com


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

Beast said:


> There are plenty of CIA agent or troll with intention to smear China coming here



You are saying this in the Ameriicas forum...as the OP of this thread. LOL! I think you have it backwards.



Beast said:


> Lol, this is a typical American misleading photo or article about signboard from China. An african black with covid-19 escape from quarantine and go hotpot with his roommate and start a spread with his black community at height of covid-19 in China. The Chinese fear of covid-19 that time is due to this incident. Nothing to do becos he is black. Subsequent, this sign is taken down by authority.



Oh LOL! Typical Chinese answer. A single person escapes quarantine and now every black person in a big city is a Coronavirus suspect.

Wasn't your media the first to cry a @#$%& river of racism when Europeans were hiding from Chinese on trains/buses due to Coronavirus fears?








CGTN
*Coronavirus leads to increasing reports of racism against Chinese*


----------



## zain41

paritosh said:


> What a gross generalisation.
> Are all Pakistan's claiming to be Trump's lost children?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump's Pakistani 'daughter' misses him, claims he misses her too | NewsBytes
> 
> 
> US President Donald Trump has quite a long and extended family
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsbytesapp.com




The US President Donald Trump's popularity among Indian Americans has increased to 28 percent since 2016, according to a September poll by the Indiaspora-AAPI Data. 

The poll, however, indicated that the Democratic Party candidate Joe Biden still has the support of at least 54 percent of Indian Americans. 

The support for Biden among Americans of Indian background is quite low compared to the levels the previous democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton, enjoyed. Clinton was backed by 77 percent of Indian Americans, and her predecessor, Barack Obama, was even more popular. He could boast of the support of 84 percent Indian Americans in 2012. 

Do you realize how big of a jump this is? Especially considering that trump is considered racist by all minorities.. the only reason they started voting for him is because of his rhetoric against muslims..

you wana be naive again like how you are under your other account ??


----------



## rent4country

Beast said:


> Indeed , the right to rape, slave, violent ,cheat, steal and discriminate against others are also part of the package as American.
> 
> I will rather stay as Chinese citizen to enjoy more fairer and peaceful lives. I do not want to be killed by covid-19 as part of the package of freedom offer by USA.
> 
> Let me repeat again. White racist american will never accept Indian as their own.



Only people on PDF who have their own government consider them as inferior are the Chinese. The CCP knows you are too inferior to think, behave, talk, and read freely, so they have to control you, cradle to the grave.  Blacks in S Africa apartheid had more freedom than the Chinese govt affords you


----------



## paritosh

zain41 said:


> The US President Donald Trump's popularity among Indian Americans has increased to 28 percent since 2016, according to a September poll by the Indiaspora-AAPI Data.
> 
> The poll, however, indicated that the Democratic Party candidate Joe Biden still has the support of at least 54 percent of Indian Americans.
> 
> The support for Biden among Americans of Indian background is quite low compared to the levels the previous democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton, enjoyed. Clinton was backed by 77 percent of Indian Americans, and her predecessor, Barack Obama, was even more popular. He could boast of the support of 84 percent Indian Americans in 2012.
> 
> Do you realize how big of a jump this is? Especially considering that trump is considered racist by all minorities.. the only reason they started voting for him is because of his rhetoric against muslims..
> 
> you wana be naive again like how you are under your other account ??


Is this supposed to be evidence for how Indians build temples for Trump?
In those figures that you have presented, why are you not taking into account the support offered to other democrat nominees?

and which other account?


----------



## Beast

rent4country said:


> Only people on PDF who have their own government consider them as inferior are the Chinese. The CCP knows you are too inferior to think, behave, talk, and read freely, so they have to control you, cradle to the grave.  Blacks in S Africa apartheid had more freedom than the Chinese govt affords you


I don't need freedom to fabricate lies, circulate faked news , loot , riot, rape and murder. I know u have the luxury to do that. 

I rather have a control environment away from these hazardous.


----------



## MilSpec

waz said:


> I'm no where near 5ft 4, which is quite exact by the way I feel for you. Oh and plenty of folks have met me off here to prove that. You make me laugh (not a compliment) and just like the many other voices on the net I've come across over the years, all hot air, that I couldn't give a toss about.
> As for "legible" sentences, it's dumbed down for your level, please appreciate the things I do for you.


It's sad that you did not get the 5.4 references, looks like you do not like your own petty generalizations when applied to you.
And also the worst defence for piss poor english dear, maybe try harder.



waz said:


> As for the killing of your 'countrymen', you were the one laughing at their cries for help. Folks like yourself often have a more gratuitous side to them.


Poor writing reflects poor comprehension, so no wonder you hold such weird views. Point me to such posts, and will be more than happy to provide you with some disambiguation that even you will understand.



waz said:


> No I’m enjoying watching him act up. It’s hilarious.


Acting up? I just did not want you to miss out on your type of thread. That's why the tag, you seem to be irked?

And it's quite cute that you are issuing me point @The Eagle , wonder for exactly which violation. Don't underestimate @waz he is quite capable of holding his own, I hardly think he needs you to ban me, he can weasel out on his own by handing me that ban without a reason.


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## Areesh

MilSpec said:


> It's sad that you did not get the 5.4 references, looks like you do not like your own petty generalizations when applied to you.
> And also the worst defence for piss poor english dear, maybe try harder.
> 
> 
> Poor writing reflects poor comprehension, so no wonder you hold such weird views. Point me to such posts, and will be more than happy to provide you with some disambiguation that even you will understand.
> 
> 
> Acting up? I just did not want you to miss out on your type of thread. That's why the tag, you seem to be irked?
> 
> And it's quite cute that you are issuing me point @The Eagle , wonder for exactly which violation. Don't underestimate @waz he is quite capable of holding his own, I hardly think he needs you to ban me, he can weasel out on his own by handing me that ban without a reason.



Always feels great to see this kanjar banned

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## waz

MilSpec said:


> It's sad that you did not get the 5.4 references, looks like you do not like your own petty generalizations when applied to you.
> And also the worst defence for piss poor english dear, maybe try harder.



Dear God what a tantrum queen you are. Yes I got the reference, however I also stated that such folk had great business acumen. I didn't know you would get offended by stating the average height of a group of people.
You then wrote about my "piss poor *e*nglish". Before you embarked on your grammar offensive you could have paid attention to the word English. The word English is always capitalised, in this case your reference to the language. It's a proper noun
Are you wilfully trying to look stupid?





MilSpec said:


> Poor writing reflects poor comprehension, so no wonder you hold such weird views. Point me to such posts, and will be more than happy to provide you with some disambiguation that even you will understand.



There's nothing wrong with my comprehension. You laughed, in a mocking way, at the concerns of a group of influential Kashmiri citizens who highlighted the brutal suppression methods being used by the security forces. There is no ambiguity for you to remove. Your post was crass full stop.
Also oh hallowed master of English, do you actually read your posts before you press the reply button?

*"Point me to such posts, and will be more".*

You forgot the 'I' in your sentence.




MilSpec said:


> Acting up? I just did not want you to miss out on your type of thread. That's why the tag, you seem to be irked?



You sound confused. I'm also not irked, I'm laughing at you. When you come back, do carry on.
Oh and that wonderful English of yours is on display again. 

*"That's why the tag".*

Don't you mean, that is why I tagged you. 



MilSpec said:


> And it's quite cute that you are issuing me point @The Eagle , wonder for exactly which violation. Don't underestimate @waz he is quite capable of holding his own, I hardly think he needs you to ban me, he can weasel out on his own by handing me that ban without a reason.



Oh the irony of you using the term weasel. By the way a weasel is an exceptional predator capable of taking prey far larger than itself, and are the ultimate killers of dangerous rats. This exchange of ours bears a striking resemblance to the weasel reference i.e. me taking your rat like attacks head on.

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## Hamartia Antidote

waz said:


> Dear God what a tantrum queen you are. Yes I got the reference, however I also stated that such folk had great business acumen. I didn't know you would get offended by stating the average height of a group of people.
> You then wrote about my "piss poor *e*nglish". Before you embarked on your grammar offensive you could have paid attention to the word English. The word English is always capitalised, in this case your reference to the language. It's a proper noun
> Are you wilfully trying to look stupid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing wrong with my comprehension. You laughed, in a mocking way, at the concerns of a group of influential Kashmiri citizens who highlighted the brutal suppression methods being used by the security forces. There is no ambiguity for you to remove. Your post was crass full stop.
> Also oh hallowed master of English, do you actually read your posts before you press the reply button?
> 
> *"Point me to such posts, and will be more".*
> 
> You forgot the 'I' in your sentence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You sound confused. I'm also not irked, I'm laughing at you. When you come back, do carry on.
> Oh and that wonderful English of yours is on display again.
> 
> *"That's why the tag".*
> 
> Don't you mean, that is why I tagged you.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the irony of you using the term weasel. By the way a weasel is an exceptional predator capable of taking prey far larger than itself, and are the ultimate killers of dangerous rats. This exchange of ours bears a striking resemblance to the weasel reference i.e. me taking your rat like attacks head on.
> 
> View attachment 689166



Can we just merge this yet another political thread somewhere like "US Politics: 2016-2020" or even "BlacklivesMatter".

Creating a new thread for a dummy with a sign is silly...especially when people start debating Native American vs Indian.

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## Dungeness

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Nowhere near as racist as Chinese. You guys are maybe only outdone by the Koreans who don't like anybody (including white people).
> 
> *Get a bunch of Chinese together in a conversation and they'll openly and happily sh*t on every people from Asia and Africa.* It's so bad they even scold their kids for wasting time having them as friends. It's like being at a KKK meeting except everybody under the hoods is Chinese. Definitely not politically correct.



Wondering what kind of Chinese you are associated with. Birds of a feather flock together?


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

Dungeness said:


> Wondering what kind of Chinese you are associated with. Birds of a feather flock together?



Maybe you should spend *more* time wondering about the root of Chinese members generalized allegations...instead of my replies to them.

Try that first and then maybe I'll start giving you polite answers.


----------



## TheTruth

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Hey remember the signs like this in China..you have a short memory
> View attachment 688936




One single store making a mistake, vs literally millions of Nazis living in America ... LOL









The Demography of the Alt-Right


A year ago, the so-called Alt-Right (short for




ifstudies.org













1 in 10 say it's acceptable to hold neo-Nazi views (POLL)







abcnews.go.com


----------



## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Even though, the 2020 electoral vote is exactly the same as the 2016 electoral vote. But the popular vote totals are substantially different from 2016, in 2016 Hillary defeated Trump in the popular vote by nearly 3 million. Biden so far has secured nearly 6 million more votes than Trump.
> 
> Now, that is a landslide.



I hear that. So the orangutan is having a tough time dealing with reality that he is no more worthy of what he has brutally abused for the last 4 years and it seems to have hit him really hard lollolOLOloloolOllolL! He hasn't been seen in public except once to take credit for the vaccine that came out and other than that, he's been locked in the oval office and the white house and they can see the TV on all the time LOL and now he hates FOX since God forbid they drop the hole fraudulent election stupidity and go against him so he has these TV set on NewsMax an OANN both are recommended by Brietbart or whatever and they just spew the ultra right BS and super conspiracy crap that I wouldn't doubt that by the time they drag him out of there to let Joe and Kamala in, he won't have showered or changed clothed and his fingernails and toenails will be 3ft long like Howard Hughes LOL! Crazyyyyy.

Oh and speaking of crazy outside of lunatic!? Did anyone catch that load of steaming dung press conference full of nothing but conspiracy crap by that Mafiosi grandpa Giuliani the gumbasta? Best part of that whole pile of crap was when Papa Gules' hair dye started rolling down the side of his face with that garlic sweat! UoouuuF!

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## zectech

Huge news out of Georgia

*Presidential Transition Live Updates: Georgia Completes Full Recount, Reaffirming Biden’s Win*
The Georgia secretary of state’s office confirmed the results after six days of hand counting. President Trump has forcefully inserted himself into vote-counting in Michigan, where he lost decisively, as his legal efforts in other states continue to fizzle.










Georgia completes its full recount, reaffirming Biden’s victory. (Published 2020)







www.nytimes.com

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## Gomig-21

zectech said:


> Huge news out of Georgia
> 
> *Presidential Transition Live Updates: Georgia Completes Full Recount, Reaffirming Biden’s Win*
> The Georgia secretary of state’s office confirmed the results after six days of hand counting. President Trump has forcefully inserted himself into vote-counting in Michigan, where he lost decisively, as his legal efforts in other states continue to fizzle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Georgia completes its full recount, reaffirming Biden’s victory. (Published 2020)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com



It's gotten so silly now, Can't wait for this dreadful four year long nightmare to be over soon enough and this loser from hell disappears into bolivion like our good friend Mike Tyson once said. End this nightmare already!!

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## ARMalik

The state of extremely dangerous affairs in the US. Civil war is very much a possibility!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329832453385707524

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328773216953905154

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## Gomig-21

lol who's this zaid hamid clown? Is he for real posting some 14 year-old's wifi power trip on the day a bunch of maga donkeys showed up in DC? Big friggin deal there were 300,000 times more people protesting in the 60's lol yet we didn't see any civil war. 

You really gotta watch out for those filthy racists super ultra white freaks out of Aussie. Those people are more dangerous than the filthy right wing racist filth we have here in the US.

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## RabzonKhan

Trump and his stupid lawyers are full of BS accusations but completely empty on evidence. And the courts are dismissing his cases out left and right.

Trump has been defeated by almost 6 million votes and 306 – 232 in the Electoral College.

The end is near. Trumpian nightmare will soon be over!

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## tower9

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump and his stupid lawyers are full of BS accusations but completely empty on evidence. And the courts are dismissing his cases out left and right.
> 
> Trump has been defeated by almost 6 million votes and 306 – 232 in the Electoral College.
> 
> The end is near. Trumpian nightmare will soon be over!
> 
> View attachment 690516



Giuliani is such an embarrassment.

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## RabzonKhan

Breaking news: The General Services Administration has informed President-elect Joe Biden that the Trump administration is ready to begin the formal transition process, according to a letter from Administrator Emily Murphy sent Monday afternoon and obtained by CNN.

Also, the Michigan State Board of Canvassers voted Monday to certify the results of the state's presidential election in which Biden defeated Trump with over 156,000 votes, a major blow to Trump's effort to undermine our democracy.

Looks like the clown is coming to his senses. The end is near. Trumpian nightmare will soon be over!

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## cloud4000

Gomig-21 said:


> It's gotten so silly now, Can't wait for this dreadful four year long nightmare to be over soon enough and this loser from hell disappears into bolivion like our good friend Mike Tyson once said. End this nightmare already!!



Donald Trump is gone but Trumpism is here to stay. The election results showed there was no Blue Wave, but a country still divided. It's incredible after all that Trump did while POTUS that results wasn't lopsided. Proof that many voters are not keen on Democrats as well, especially eschewing their socialist tendencies and support for BLM/Antifa. 

One of the interesting results of the pandemic -- and violent BLM/antifa protests -- is the flight to the suburbs by many people. Will they vote blue next time around?

We are entering interesting times.


Gomig-21 said:


> lol who's this zaid hamid clown? Is he for real posting some 14 year-old's wifi power trip on the day a bunch of maga donkeys showed up in DC? Big friggin deal there were 300,000 times more people protesting in the 60's lol yet we didn't see any civil war.
> 
> You really gotta watch out for those filthy racists super ultra white freaks out of Aussie. Those people are more dangerous than the filthy right wing racist filth we have here in the US.



Zaid Hamid is a Pakistani nutjob who spouts nonsense and conspiracy theories on Pakistan television. He provides no value other than comic relief.

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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> Breaking news: The General Services Administration has informed President-elect Joe Biden that the Trump administration is ready to begin the formal transition process, according to a letter from Administrator Emily Murphy sent Monday afternoon and obtained by CNN.



So no civil war that many on PDF were touting so shrilly?

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## Gomig-21

cloud4000 said:


> Donald Trump is gone but Trumpism is here to stay. The election results showed there was no Blue Wave, but a country still divided. It's incredible after all that Trump did while POTUS that results wasn't lopsided. Proof that many voters are not keen on Democrats as well, especially eschewing their socialist tendencies and support for BLM/Antifa.
> 
> One of the interesting results of the pandemic -- and violent BLM/antifa protests -- is the flight to the suburbs by many people. Will they vote blue next time around?
> 
> We are entering interesting times.



I do agree with most of what you said, but when we look at a reversal of the electoral vote from the 2016 results that he himself was touting as a "landslide" for 3 of the 4 years he wouldn't shut up about it and the same result happens to him this time around? I would say that is some kind of blue wave or give them a lot more credit than just saying there was no blue wave. A lot more people voted this time around and many more voted for Biden so there is something to be said about that at least.


cloud4000 said:


> Zaid Hamid is a Pakistani nutjob who spouts nonsense and conspiracy theories on Pakistan television. He provides no value other than comic relief.



Yeah, that was definitely some comic relief lmao.

BTW, have you or @RabzonKhan or @VCheng or anyone else hear of the Republicans running fake 'Democratic' candidates in certain states (I believe Florida & Rhode Island) and these are phantom candidates designed to be super liberal and to take votes away from the legitimate Democratic candidate to reduce their total votes and make the Republican candidate win? I just saw this on he news and it will become a bigger story and once it does I'll post more about it but I bet Rabzon has heard of it and the scary part about it is that it tethers on the brink of being legal and not fraudulent except they will certainly put a stop to it because it has affected at least 2 races that they know about by taking votes away from the legitimate Democratic candidate and giving them to this "Ghost" candidate created by a republican group! This might explain why the orangutan has been screaming about fraudulent elections for a while since he was aware of his own party's shenanigans! lol

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## VCheng

Gomig-21 said:


> BTW, have you or @RabzonKhan or @VCheng or anyone else hear of the Republicans running fake 'Democratic' candidates in certain states (I believe Florida & Rhode Island) and these are phantom candidates designed to be super liberal and to take votes away from the legitimate Democratic candidate to reduce their total votes and make the Republican candidate win? I just saw this on he news and it will become a bigger story and once it does I'll post more about it but I bet Rabzon has heard of it and the scary part about it is that it tethers on the brink of being legal and not fraudulent except they will certainly put a stop to it because it has affected at least 2 races that they know about by taking votes away from the legitimate Democratic candidate and giving them to this "Ghost" candidate created by a republican group! This might explain why the orangutan has been screaming about fraudulent elections for a while since he was aware of his own party's shenanigans! lol



This is not a new tactic, and is usually done via third party spoiler candidates in a targeted area, or by same-party candidates who are in competitive primaries. People are aware of it, I am sure.

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## RabzonKhan

Two more nails in Trump's coffin! 

*Pennsylvania and Nevada certify election results for Biden*

(CNN)Pennsylvania and Nevada on Tuesday certified their 2020 general election results, formally awarding electoral votes from two key battleground states to President-elect Joe Biden.

CNN had already projected Biden as the winner in both Pennsylvania, where he was leading by more than 81,000 votes, and in Nevada, where Biden won by more than 33,000 votes, according to the secretary of state's office. *Source*


VCheng said:


> So no civil war that many on PDF were touting so shrilly?


Now imagine how boring PDF would be without such nonsense. My all-time favorite is the imaginary “American deep state”. 


Gomig-21 said:


> BTW, have you or @RabzonKhan or @VCheng or anyone else hear of the Republicans running fake 'Democratic' candidates in certain states (I believe Florida & Rhode Island) and these are phantom candidates designed to be super liberal and to take votes away from the legitimate Democratic candidate to reduce their total votes and make the Republican candidate win? I just saw this on he news and it will become a bigger story and once it does I'll post more about it but I bet Rabzon has heard of it and the scary part about it is that it tethers on the brink of being legal and not fraudulent except they will certainly put a stop to it because it has affected at least 2 races that they know about by taking votes away from the legitimate Democratic candidate and giving them to this "Ghost" candidate created by a republican group! This might explain why the orangutan has been screaming about fraudulent elections for a while since he was aware of his own party's shenanigans! lol


Unfortunately, that happens all the time. Most probably you are referring to state Senate race in Florida. Florida prosecutors are investigating a third-party candidate who most probably was supported by the Republican operatives.

Remember that loser Kenny West? He was in the race to help his master and it’s not even a secret, Republican operatives help to get him onto several ballots. He was registered in only 12 States with a total of 84 electoral, that clearly shows he was a spoiler candidate.






*Biden Introduces Foreign Policy And National Security Nominees*


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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> Now imagine how boring PDF would be without such nonsense. My all-time favorite is the imaginary “American deep state”.




Thanks to the environment created by such nonsensical efforts, PDF has managed to change its global ranking from 22,xxx to nearly 34,xxx. 

On topic, we should have the formal electoral college votes cast and counted by mid-December, right on schedule. Of course, the orange ape will join his crazy hair-dye runner ("I am exaggerating a bit") in Pennsylvania today to mope about the non-existent fraud.


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## Gomig-21

VCheng said:


> This is not a new tactic, and is usually done via third party spoiler candidates in a targeted area, or by same-party candidates who are in competitive primaries. People are aware of it, I am sure.



I've never heard of that particular scheme or seen of it used in any of the elections until this special on CNN which was truly incredible because they mentioned that there was actually no illegalities to it which I find super hard to believe. Crazy world we live in. 



RabzonKhan said:


> Unfortunately, that happens all the time. Most probably you are referring to state Senate race in Florida. Florida prosecutors are investigating a third-party candidate who most probably was supported by the Republican operatives.
> 
> Remember that loser Kenny West? He was in the race to help his master and it’s not even a secret, Republican operatives help to get him onto several ballots. He was registered in only 12 States with a total of 84 electoral, that clearly shows he was a spoiler candidate.



Except this is a phantom candidate! He doesn't even actually exist in the sense that he's a viable and real candidate running for the position just as a spoiler. This is a name of an individual who is real so that there is a SSN and a birth certificate etc. only he really isn't running and is created by the GOP as a democratic candidate and they'll list his policies based on whomever the REAL and ACTUAL democrat candidate who's running in that particular election and the policies are designed to appeal to another side of Democrats that might not like what they see in the actual one running, hence stealing votes from him/her in order to propel the Republican candidate to victory. That is so sleazy and hard to believe there is any legality in such a slimy move.

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## cloud4000

Gomig-21 said:


> BTW, have you or @RabzonKhan or @VCheng or anyone else hear of the Republicans running fake 'Democratic' candidates in certain states (I believe Florida & Rhode Island) and these are phantom candidates designed to be super liberal and to take votes away from the legitimate Democratic candidate to reduce their total votes and make the Republican candidate win? I just saw this on he news and it will become a bigger story and once it does I'll post more about it but I bet Rabzon has heard of it and the scary part about it is that it tethers on the brink of being legal and not fraudulent except they will certainly put a stop to it because it has affected at least 2 races that they know about by taking votes away from the legitimate Democratic candidate and giving them to this "Ghost" candidate created by a republican group! This might explain why the orangutan has been screaming about fraudulent elections for a while since he was aware of his own party's shenanigans! lol



I can see this happening in Florida, but not in Rhode Island, which is a very strong Democratic state like Massachusetts. I don't know if the GOP puts up phantom candidates or just secretly support them through other means, like donations and social media. 

Then again there is a war within the Democratic party between the progressives and moderates, where the former when went after the latter.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Beidou2020 said:


> 48 hours until US descends into civil war.







Oh crap It's finally happening. Please everybody save US.

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## Beidou2020

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Oh crap It's finally happening. Please everybody save US.



US is already in a civil war.


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## Gomig-21

cloud4000 said:


> I don't know if the GOP puts up phantom candidates or just secretly support them through other means, like donations and social media.



Oh they definitely did. This was a 50-something fella who lived in a nice, upscale home and neighborhood and they even went to his house to confront him and they asked him "are you so & so" and he said yes, and answered a few questions and politely declined the rest and shut the door. It seemed like he was aware that he wasn't doing anything illegal but just didn't want to give too much information.

But then how ironic is it that the top of the GOP is screaming about fraud and all this phantom garbage and here they are pulling off these scams lmfao! Unbelievable the nerve. It's a CNN segment I'm sure it's on YT when I have a little time I'll look for it and post it.



cloud4000 said:


> Then again there is a war within the Democratic party between the progressives and moderates, where the former when went after the latter.



And that's what they're taking advantage of. If the candidate they want to destroy is a moderate, then this made-up candidate will be a progressive to lure those votes away from the actual candidate who is legitimately running and that only helps the Republican candidate win. Wouldn't it be funny if it actually backfired and the phantom candidate actually wins! lmfao!



Beidou2020 said:


> US is already in a civil war.



Where?!?! I don't see anything of the sort happening in my state or any of the other 49 states. Can you point exactly where this civil war is happening so I can take some pics?

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## VCheng

Gomig-21 said:


> I've never heard of that particular scheme or seen of it used in any of the elections until this special on CNN which was truly incredible because they mentioned that there was actually no illegalities to it which I find super hard to believe. Crazy world we live in.




Let us just wait for January 20 and wash the orange tinge off many things over time, this being one of them, I suspect.

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## Gomig-21

VCheng said:


> Let us just wait for January 20 and wash the orange tinge off many things over time, this being one of them, I suspect.



You mean that left over spaghetti meat sauce at the bottom of the pan that he uses as a substitute for tanning cream he puts on his face?

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## VCheng

Gomig-21 said:


> You mean that left over spaghetti meat sauce at the bottom of the pan that he uses as a substitute for tanning cream he puts on his face?



Nothing as complex as that. He is a simple man. It must be Cheetos. 

Back on topic, do you think he will show up at the Inauguration?

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## Broccoli

There won't be any civil war. Those conservative geardos always brandish their tacticool AR-15's and military gear but when it actually comes to "protecting confederate statues from anarchist marxist feminist mobs" with weapons as they always threat... suddenly those patriots have disappeared. 

Maybe those "true patriots" should find better hobbies than walking around looking like Vanilla ISIS.

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## KAL-EL

The USA is in a heavy Civil War right now. I mean a really heavy civil war. Please assist us

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## SQ8

KAL-EL said:


> The USA is in a heavy Civil War right now. I mean a really heavy civil war. Please assist us


Oh there is a civil war being waged for precious resources alright - against usurpers of resources and the less astute. Those resources are called PS5s and Graphic cards.


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## KAL-EL

SQ8 said:


> Oh there is a civil war being waged for precious resources alright - against usurpers of resources and the less astute. Those resources are called PS5s and Graphic cards.



Don’t forget about Xbox series Xs


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## RabzonKhan

The Mother of all Snubs!  Republican Arizona Governor Doug Ducey ignored a phone call from (most probably) Trump on life TV while certifying Joe Biden as the winner of the state.

Ducey said in July that his cell phone is set to play “hail to the chief” when receiving a call from Trump or Pence. On life TV Ducey was signing the documents to certify Biden as the winner of the state, the song can be heard before he is shown pulling a phone out of his coat pocket and putting it on his desk.








Trump said the stock market would crash if Biden won. The Dow just had its best month since 1987. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298637609871212545


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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> The Mother of all Snubs!  Republican Arizona Governor Doug Ducey ignored a phone call from (most probably) Trump on life TV while certifying Joe Biden as the winner of the state.



The Governor confirmed today that the call was indeed from Trump.

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> I've never heard of that particular scheme or seen of it used in any of the elections until this special on CNN which was truly incredible because they mentioned that there was actually no illegalities to it which I find super hard to believe. Crazy world we live in.
> 
> 
> 
> Except this is a phantom candidate! He doesn't even actually exist in the sense that he's a viable and real candidate running for the position just as a spoiler. This is a name of an individual who is real so that there is a SSN and a birth certificate etc. only he really isn't running and is created by the GOP as a democratic candidate and they'll list his policies based on whomever the REAL and ACTUAL democrat candidate who's running in that particular election and the policies are designed to appeal to another side of Democrats that might not like what they see in the actual one running, hence stealing votes from him/her in order to propel the Republican candidate to victory. That is so sleazy and hard to believe there is any legality in such a slimy move.


After the recount, the Republican won with 39 votes, the fake "Democrat" won more than 6000 vote. I hope something good will come out of the investigation.



I like this Republican Congressman, looks like there are still Republicans who put country before a Conman.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334338371494305799


dharmi said:


> Libya, Syria & made Iraq worse, "arab spring"... Iraq & Afghanistan... Kosovo, blue dress and cigar
> 
> and a muslim cheering these scoundrels, how pathetic


First of all, there is no need for personal attacks. I can understand why you may think I am X,Y, and Z, but that has nothing to do with our discussion.



> Trump:
> 
> first president since Carter to not start a major war


You don’t think war with Iran is a major war?



> Israeli Arab peace deal


I support that.



> Kosovo Serbia peace deal


President Clinton is the one who saved Kosovo from Russian supported Serbian terrorists.



> Dialogue with DPRK


That was just a circus!



> Wiped out ISIS


Yes, he completed what Pres. Obama had started. Good!



> No regime change in Syria


That was also Pres. Obama’s policy.


The fact of the matter is that Trump campaigned in both the Republican primaries and the general election to end the “forever wars”. So far, he has failed to deliver on his promise, in fact, he escalated almost every conflict he inherited. He has conducted drone strikes in Afghanistan, Somalia and Yemen at a far higher rate than Obama.

Even when he had the opportunity, he choose war over peace, he vetoed a bill passed by Congress to end support for the brutal Saudi-led war in Yemen.

By recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and giving Netanyahu a green light to annex illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank, he destroyed whatever little chance there was for a viable Palestinian state.

He shamelessly expressed support for the internment camps when Chinese leader Jinping explained in a private meeting his solution to combat disturbances in Xinjiang.

He unilaterally withdrew from the US Iran nuclear deal and killed a top Iranian general at the behest of neocons and Netanyahu. Few days ago, Israel killed one of Iran’s top nuclear scientists. These provocative and dangerous actions have put the US and Iran on the path to war. It clearly looks like a coordinated effort by Trump, neocons and Netanyahu to undermine President-elect Biden, who has repeatedly said that he will reenter Iran nuclear deal without new conditions.

In summary,

Trump is not a man of peace:

He destroyed any hope of Israeli-Palestinian peace.

Vetoed to end brutal Saudi led war in Yemen.

Supported Uighur camps.

Started a war with Iran by killing their top general.


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## KAL-EL

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like almost every other day that goes by, Trump Has another one of his lawsuits thrown out of court.

Which is why I think he’s Starting to concentrate his efforts on the court of public opinion.


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## crankthatskunk

The series of videos posted on alleged "illegal"ballots counting in Georgia.
It is claimed that the videos are the prove that Staff in Georgia counted these ballots after asking everyone to leave the room.
The ballots were stored in 4 suitcases placed under the table(s).

It seems the troubles are brewing in the USA.
After call for President Trump to impose the Martial Law, I think this evidence would be used to discredit election results.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334615188880969731

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334615772770000896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334615772770000896


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## KAL-EL

Should be taken to a court of law then. This way, Trump wouldn’t continue to Have his lawsuits thrown out of court.

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## tower9

The election was stolen.

Whole year was a fraud.


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## Sharma Ji

Trump 2024


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## VCheng

KAL-EL said:


> Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like almost every other day that goes by, Trump Has another one of his lawsuits thrown out of court.
> 
> Which is why I think he’s Starting to concentrate his efforts on the court of public opinion.



Meanwhile, he has raked in more than $200 million dollars in donations to be used as he pleases.

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## cloud4000

KAL-EL said:


> Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like almost every other day that goes by, Trump Has another one of his lawsuits thrown out of court.
> 
> Which is why I think he’s Starting to concentrate his efforts on the court of public opinion.



People forget that the GOP is split over Trump: one-half likes him while the other despises him. GOP-controlled states don't like to be accused of running a fraudulent election and have told Trump so by ignoring his pleas to not certify the election. 

Plus, the GOP is not going to sacrifice their party for the sake of one man, many of whom don't even consider him to be a conservative. 

I'm glad Trump's attempt to overturn the election is dissipating faster than a balloon losing air.

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## KAL-EL

VCheng said:


> Meanwhile, he has raked in more than $200 million dollars in donations to be used as he pleases.



And he’s conned his loyal base into thinking that the money will be mostly used to fight his way back into the White House.

It’s too bad they didn’t read the small print to see where it will actually Be mostly going.

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## Sharma Ji

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334700028129112065


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## RabzonKhan

dharmi said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334700028129112065


DUH, it was a joke! Before she became Trump’s tool, she used to like Biden’s jokes and hailed him as a “man of the people” who was both “*funny* and likable”.


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## RabzonKhan

For months, Trump’s bootlicking Fox News hosts Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham nonstop talked about President-elect Joe Biden’s son Hunter Biden’s dealings in Ukraine, China and his mysterious laptop. But after the election all that BS has almost disappeared.

Now they are busy parroting Trump’s new BS, “the elections were rigged”. Freaking losers!


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## RabzonKhan

Rudy Giuliani, the personal attorney to Trump, has tested positive for Covid-19. Giuliani was admitted to Georgetown University Hospital on Sunday, a source familiar confirmed to CNN.


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## RabzonKhan




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## fallstuff

Move along folks , there is nothing to see here cause that is how they count votes in Georgia !


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## shanlung



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## RabzonKhan

*JUST IN: Trump Lawyer Jenna Ellis Diagnosed With Covid-19 After Attending White House Christmas Party*

Ellis has played a prominent role in the Trump campaign’s legal efforts to overturn election results in a number of swing states, as a key member of what is a self-described “Elite Strike Force” of attorney that have been baselessly alleging fraud and filing local suits in a number of states that eventually went for President-elect Joe Biden. State courts have almost uniformly found against Trump’s legal filings, which suggests efforts to take their cases to the Supreme Court will likely fail for lack of legal standing.

On Sunday, Ellis’s colleague *Rudy Giuliani* was also diagnosed with the potentially deadly contagion, which nearly completes the infection rate of almost every member of Trump’s inner circle of advisors.


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## crankthatskunk

It seems another effort of Trump camp to stop Biden becomes the President of the USA has backfired.









Supreme Court denies request to stop certification of Pennsylvania vote
The Supreme Court on Tuesday turned back an effort by Republicans to reverse President-elect Joe Biden’s victory in Pennsylvania. The decision was announced in an order with no noted dissents. The court’s order read, “The application for injunctive relief presented to Justice Alito and by him referred to the Court is denied.” Experts and officials have said there has been no evidence of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 US elections.
Photo via @YahooNews





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1336426590671138816

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## Enigma SIG

He should take a page out of the Our Great Dear Democratic Leader Mariam Nawaz whose fight for democracy has left the establishment peeing in their pants.

Raula pai rakho bas.


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## RabzonKhan

*Neal Katyal: Trump's Legal Team Is The Best... At Losing. *


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## shanlung



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## bshifter

I will miss Trump saying CHINA CHINA CHINA. Pompeo? Not so much he will be terminated along with Trump


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## Liaslia

Trump's tweet: Coup taking place in USA

https://twitter.com/MachM6

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## Liaslia

Situation in USA is very bad. Like a tinder box. The U.S military has been called in

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## RabzonKhan

*Time magazine names President-elect Joe Biden, Vice President-elect Kamala Harris as Person of the Year*








President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris were collectively chosen as Time's 2020 Person of the Year on Thursday night.

The honor was announced by Bruce Springsteen during an hourlong TV special on NBC.

Biden was elected the 46th president of the United States in November, defeating incumbent Donald Trump after an especially contentious election season. He served as vice president under Barack Obama, Trump's predecessor. 

*“This moment was one of those do-or-die moments," Biden told the magazine of the outcome of the election. "Had Trump won, I think we would have changed the nature of who we are as a country for a long time.”*


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## Saho

What coup?


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## _NOBODY_



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## shi12jun

That must congratulate the U.S. coup


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## RabzonKhan

*Donald Trump Labelled 'Loser of the Year' by Europe's Biggest News Magazine  

German magazine Der Spiegel names Trump 'Loser of the Year' *

Prominent German news magazine Der Spiegel on Thursday named President Trump its "loser of the year," the same day Time magazine named President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris its "Person of the Year." 

In an article titled "Der Verlierer des Jahres," which translates as "The Loser of the Year," the publication's Washington bureau chief Roland Nelles and Berlin-based correspondent Ralf Neukirch described Trump as "a man who ... was never concerned with the common good, but always with one thing - himself."

 *"Nothing is normal under Trump," the article added. "He refuses to admit defeat. Instead, he speaks of massive electoral fraud, although there is no evidence for it. The whole thing is not surprising. Trump's presidency ends as it began. Without decency and without dignity." * *Source*


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## RabzonKhan

*The Texas lawsuit shows Republicans went from fighting Democrats to fighting democracy*
*How can a Democratic president function when a majority of House Republicans now support a lawsuit that would overturn our system of government?*


Dec. 11, 2020, 11:39 AM PST
By Robert Schlesinger, author, "White House Ghosts: Presidents and Their Speechwriters"

*President-elect Joe Biden has long argued that the Republican Party was one presidential loss away from a “fever-break[ing]” moment of “epiphany” from which it would emerge ready to work (if not always agree) with a Democratic president. But neither Biden’s 7 million vote national margin nor the 306 electoral votes he rang up — a figure which Trump touted as a “massive landslide” when he achieved it — has broken that aforementioned GOP fever. Instead, it has spiked — to 106.

That, after all, is the number of Republican members of the U.S. House whose names were on an amicus brief filed on Thursday supporting a ludicrous lawsuit that Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton filed with the Supreme Court asking it to simply invalidate the election results in four swing states which Biden won. (Another 20 names — supposedly omitted in a "clerical error" — were added on Friday.) This “Kraken Caucus” represents a clear majority of the House GOP and includes members of its leadership, such as House Whip Steve Scalise. (Republican attorneys general of 17 other states have also joined Paxton’s quixotic bid.)

Trump, undoubtedly delighted at the prospect of a shortcut to the high court after going 1-for-55 in lower courts in his attempt to stymie the democratic process, declared Paxton’s case “the big one” which will deliver the Oval Office back to him.*

The case and the Republican House members’ support of it illustrates the biggest problem Biden will face in office — and one that will inform or impede his ability to deal with the towering crises of the Covid-19 pandemic and our precarious economic situation: How can a U.S. president govern, let alone solve major problems, if one of our political parties is openly hostile to our entire political system?

The suit’s rapid evolution from risible pardon-bait from a politician who is currently the subject of ongoing FBI corruption investigation to a cause around which a majority of Republican House members and a supermajority of Republican attorneys general are rallying is just the latest, starkest illustration of a dangerous trend in conservative politics. *Too many Republicans have gone from being anti-Democratic — that is to say, hostile to the liberal political party — to being anti-democratic — that is to say, hostile to the liberal political system and antagonistic to the idea that the will of the people should prevail — and unwilling to accept political defeat.*

*This trend represents an existential threat to our system.*

It is, in part, a result of the Republicans' increasing willingness to abuse anti-majoritarian safeguards in our political system, and to use big government to sustain themselves. *They benefit from the advantages accorded to small states in the Constitution — take Trump’s 2016 Electoral College victory despite his popular vote loss, for example, or the fact that 17 percent of the electorate can install a Senate majority — while using redistricting and restrictive ballots laws to shape and cull the electorate. *

Those Republicans then abetted Trump as he attacked our political system as rigged and corrupt. You could see it four years ago, when he claimed both that primary elections he lost and the general election he won were rigged and rife with fraud; he was hardly challenged, and was often supported in his wild pronouncements. *And then, when the pandemic meant that voters would cast an unprecedented number of absentee ballots, Republicans in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania refused to permit officials to start counting absentee ballots before Election Day, guaranteeing an early, illusory Trump lead Nov. 3 whose dissipation he could blame on fraud. 

Since the election, the party has only more fully warmed to Trump’s demagogy, moving from the uncomfortable passivity that Republicans used to adopt in the face of his provocations to downright enthusiasm for overturning a free and fair election. *

The fact that no serious person thinks the Texas suit has a chance of succeeding only makes this folly more cynical and destructive. House Republicans and state attorneys general are not low-information voters who have stewed too long in the Trump/conservative-media miasma of mendacity to know any better. As political and legal professionals, they must know that no evidence has been produced of voter fraud and that Trump’s post-election litigation campaign has been repeatedly laughed out of courts across the country.

The Texas suit, in fact, “essentially throws in the towel on proving fraud,” The Washington Post’s Aaron Blake noted Thursday.

These Republicans are instead embracing a “seditious abuse of the judicial process,” (as Pennsylvania’s response to Paxton’s suit termed it) for cynical political reasons, again exposing themselves as bereft of any core values beyond a desire for power and, perhaps, tax cuts. *These preening strict constructionists who have long styled themselves as originalist defenders of federalism and states’ rights against big government overreach are now asking Uncle Sam to disenfranchise tens of millions of voters in violation of the core principles of the Constitution.*

And that Trump is simultaneously flirting with political violence — “We will soon be learning about the word ‘courage’, and saving our Country,” he tweeted this week amidst ongoing threats and harassment directed toward state election officials of both parties — while his most rabid devotees offer up their lives to his cause doesn’t seem to bother them either.

*All of this brings us back to Biden’s dilemma: He wants to be a president who can reach across party lines to solve our nation’s looming problems — and that’s laudable because it’s how our system is designed to work. But achieving it will require understanding of the extent to which the very idea is anathema to a party that no longer respects the fundamental basics of our democratic process — voting and the peaceful transfer of political power — let alone good governance. **Source*


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## RabzonKhan




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## cloud4000

An interesting article worth reading: 

https://reason.com/2020/12/12/trump-lost-because-scotus-answers-to-the-constitution-not-to-him

Trump and GOP thought that SCOTUS would give them preferential treatment on their lawsuit to overturn the election, but they voted 9-0 against him. Their loyalty is to the Constitution, not him. Bravo!

I never understood why Texas filed a lawsuit against the results of other states. Such challenges should be made by the state themselves. SCOTUS saw the lawsuit for what it was, a frivolity.

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## RabzonKhan

*Let's talk about Trump, the Supreme Court, and the Constitution....






Let's talk about Trump, concession, and decisions....*


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## RabzonKhan

cloud4000 said:


> An interesting article worth reading:
> 
> https://reason.com/2020/12/12/trump-lost-because-scotus-answers-to-the-constitution-not-to-him
> 
> Trump and GOP thought that SCOTUS would give them preferential treatment on their lawsuit to overturn the election, but they voted 9-0 against him. Their loyalty is to the Constitution, not him. Bravo!
> 
> I never understood why Texas filed a lawsuit against the results of other states. Such challenges should be made by the state themselves. SCOTUS saw the lawsuit for what it was, a frivolity.


The Texas Atty. Gen. the guy who filed the case is under FBI investigation for bribery and abuse of his office to help a campaign donor. He also has been under indictment for securities fraud charges. So maybe he was trying to get a presidential pardon by pleasing President crook.

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## RabzonKhan

Electoral College affirms Biden's presidential win. 





Electoral College vote
306
BIDEN




232
TRUMP

Trump’s evil strategy to remain in power once again has failed. He was seeking the help of state Republicans who control legislatures in critical states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan and Pennsylvania to intervene on his behalf to select Electoral’s who would vote for him rather than Biden who has won the popular votes in their states.


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## KAL-EL

but.. but.. Where is the Civil War ??

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## zectech

trump tried to steal it
Republican states tried to steal it
soon congress is gonna try to steal it.

cia chimping out continues


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## cloud4000

Mitch McConnell, Republican Senator, finally congratulates Biden/Harris on winning the election, effectively throwing Trump under the bus. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/15/sen...e-biden-following-electoral-college-vote.html

His party is fleeing him, the courts are against him, and even his supporters are resigned to the new reality. Trump has no choice but to go. Stop being a sore loser.


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## cloud4000

Who would have thought that a red state like Georgia would become a battleground state in the 2020 election. It seems every election cycle we are surprised.


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## Sharma Ji

cloud4000 said:


> Who would have thought that a red state like Georgia would become a battleground state in the 2020 election. It seems every election cycle we are surprised.



Democrats are “counting on demographic changes” to turn the state of Georgia blue through mass immigration, specifically from Asia, according to the _New York Times_.


A report by the _Times _notes that the growing number of Asian American voters, many foreign-born, via the nation’s mass importation of more than 1.2 million legal immigrants every year has led to rapid changes to the electorate in Georgia.


Democrats, the _Times_ reports, are relying on these changes to flip the state blue as they have successfully flipped Gwinnett County, Georgia, for Democrats over the last two presidential election cycles:




> *The emergence in Georgia of Asian-American voters is a potential bright spot for a Democratic Party counting on demographic changes to bring political wins across the country*. Asian-Americans are the fastest-growing segment of eligible voters out of the major racial and ethnic groups in the country, according to the Pew Research Center; *their numbers, nationally and in Gwinnett County, more than doubled between 2000 and 2020*.
> [Emphasis added]
> …
> Today, Asian immigrants have reached a critical mass and their children, entering their 30s and 40s and many of them educated in the United States, are pushing for representation. *In Gwinnett County, about 12 percent of people are of Asian heritage*, according to William Frey, senior demographer at the Brookings Institution. [Emphasis added]



Exit polling from Georgia’s 2018 gubernatorial race, as noted by the _Times_, reveals that 78 percent of Asian Americans voted for Democrat Stacey Abrams against Republican Brian Kemp. As with Hispanic Americans, though, varying groups within the Asian American community vote vastly differently.


Vietnamese immigrants, for example, are more likely to vote for Republicans, while immigrants from Bangladesh are much more likely to vote for Democrats, according to data published in the _Times_.


As Breitbart News reported recently, the nation’s legal immigration system has drastically altered the electorate in multiple swing states including Georgia and North Carolina.


The number of foreign-born voters and their voting-age children in Georgia has boomed by 337 percent between 2000 to 2020. Meanwhile, the native-born voting-age population in Georgia has increased by just 22 percent over that same period.


The drastic “demographics changes,” as described by multiple establishment media outlets, has made the electoral map increasingly easier for Democrats.


The _Washington Post_, _New York Times_, the _Atlantic_, Axios, the _Los Angeles Times_, and the _Wall Street Journal_ have all admitted that rapid demographic changes because of immigration are tilting the nation toward a permanent Democrat dominance.


“The single biggest threat to Republicans’ long-term viability is demographics,” Axios acknowledged last year. “The numbers simply do not lie … there’s not a single demographic megatrend that favors Republicans.”


If legal immigration levels are not reduced, the U.S. will have imported about 15 million new foreign-born voters by 2040. Those 15 million new foreign-born voters include about eight million who will have arrived through chain migration.










NYT: Democrats 'Counting on Demographic Changes' to Turn Georgia Blue


Democrats are "counting on demographic changes" to turn the state of Georgia blue through mass immigration, according to the New York Times.




www.breitbart.com

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## FuturePAF

It seems old habits die hard in Georgia.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344430151749263363


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## KAL-EL

Kelly Loeffler carries her self like a robot.


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## Gomig-21

KAL-EL said:


> Kelly Loeffler carries her self like a robot.



When the head turns simultaneously with the upper body and appear to be tied at the neck........yup! That's exactly what she looks like she's doing.

BTW, anyone heard the latest with this phone call from Trump to the Georgia officials? There are some incredibly juicy things in there and it's basically a shakedown. Not sure how this is going to turn out, but man, the desperation this guy is going through is like none other we've seen ever.

I think he might be in trouble on this one. I know we've said that before about many of the stupid things he's done, but this is just crazy beyond belief and he might've overdone himself here. He's on tape basically shaking down the Georgia officials telling them things like "find votes" to change the outcome of the election. Just crazy stuff.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345834047503646722
This is going to be bad for him. All living former defense secretaries condemn efforts to deny election results and reject talk of military use.

And here's the audio of him shaking down the secretary of state for Georgia. Wow, this has to be the nail in the coffin.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/audio-trumps-full-jan-2-call-with-ga-secretary-of-state/2021/01/03/3f9426f4-7937-4718-8a8e-9d6052001991_video.html



Here's a part of what he says that is probably the most damning in the entire conversation, but I haven't heard the whole thing yet but there is more after where he threatens the secretary of state. Absolutely crazy and sickening.

Audio: Trump’s full Jan. 2 call with Ga. secretary of state
January 3, 2021 | 3:33 PM EDT
In a one-hour phone call on Saturday, Jan. 2, 2021 with Georgia election officials, President Trump insisted he won the state and threatened vague legal consequences if the officials did not act. This audio has been edited to remove the name of an individual about whom the president makes unsubstantiated allegations.
Related

‘I just want to find 11,780 votes’: In extraordinary hour-long call, Trump pressures Georgia secretary of state to recalculate the vote in his favor


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## F-22Raptor

Gomig-21 said:


> When the head turns simultaneously with the upper body and appear to be tied at the neck........yup! That's exactly what she looks like she's doing.
> 
> BTW, anyone heard the latest with this phone call from Trump to the Georgia officials? There are some incredibly juicy things in there and it's basically a shakedown. Not sure how this is going to turn out, but man, the desperation this guy is going through is like none other we've seen ever.
> 
> I think he might be in trouble on this one. I know we've said that before about many of the stupid things he's done, but this is just crazy beyond belief and he might've overdone himself here. He's on tape basically shaking down the Georgia officials telling them things like "find votes" to change the outcome of the election. Just crazy stuff.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345834047503646722
> This is going to be bad for him. All living former defense secretaries condemn efforts to deny election results and reject talk of military use.
> 
> And here's the audio of him shaking down the secretary of state for Georgia. Wow, this has to be the nail in the coffin.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/audio-trumps-full-jan-2-call-with-ga-secretary-of-state/2021/01/03/3f9426f4-7937-4718-8a8e-9d6052001991_video.html
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a part of what he says that is probably the most damning in the entire conversation, but I haven't heard the whole thing yet but there is more after where he threatens the secretary of state. Absolutely crazy and sickening.
> 
> Audio: Trump’s full Jan. 2 call with Ga. secretary of state
> January 3, 2021 | 3:33 PM EDT
> In a one-hour phone call on Saturday, Jan. 2, 2021 with Georgia election officials, President Trump insisted he won the state and threatened vague legal consequences if the officials did not act. This audio has been edited to remove the name of an individual about whom the president makes unsubstantiated allegations.
> Related
> 
> ‘I just want to find 11,780 votes’: In extraordinary hour-long call, Trump pressures Georgia secretary of state to recalculate the vote in his favor




He legitimately could be charged with extortion.


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## cloud4000

dharmi said:


> Democrats are “counting on demographic changes” to turn the state of Georgia blue through mass immigration, specifically from Asia, according to the _New York Times_.
> 
> 
> A report by the _Times _notes that the growing number of Asian American voters, many foreign-born, via the nation’s mass importation of more than 1.2 million legal immigrants every year has led to rapid changes to the electorate in Georgia.
> 
> 
> Democrats, the _Times_ reports, are relying on these changes to flip the state blue as they have successfully flipped Gwinnett County, Georgia, for Democrats over the last two presidential election cycles:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exit polling from Georgia’s 2018 gubernatorial race, as noted by the _Times_, reveals that 78 percent of Asian Americans voted for Democrat Stacey Abrams against Republican Brian Kemp. As with Hispanic Americans, though, varying groups within the Asian American community vote vastly differently.
> 
> 
> Vietnamese immigrants, for example, are more likely to vote for Republicans, while immigrants from Bangladesh are much more likely to vote for Democrats, according to data published in the _Times_.
> 
> 
> As Breitbart News reported recently, the nation’s legal immigration system has drastically altered the electorate in multiple swing states including Georgia and North Carolina.
> 
> 
> The number of foreign-born voters and their voting-age children in Georgia has boomed by 337 percent between 2000 to 2020. Meanwhile, the native-born voting-age population in Georgia has increased by just 22 percent over that same period.
> 
> 
> The drastic “demographics changes,” as described by multiple establishment media outlets, has made the electoral map increasingly easier for Democrats.
> 
> 
> The _Washington Post_, _New York Times_, the _Atlantic_, Axios, the _Los Angeles Times_, and the _Wall Street Journal_ have all admitted that rapid demographic changes because of immigration are tilting the nation toward a permanent Democrat dominance.
> 
> 
> “The single biggest threat to Republicans’ long-term viability is demographics,” Axios acknowledged last year. “The numbers simply do not lie … there’s not a single demographic megatrend that favors Republicans.”
> 
> 
> If legal immigration levels are not reduced, the U.S. will have imported about 15 million new foreign-born voters by 2040. Those 15 million new foreign-born voters include about eight million who will have arrived through chain migration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NYT: Democrats 'Counting on Demographic Changes' to Turn Georgia Blue
> 
> 
> Democrats are "counting on demographic changes" to turn the state of Georgia blue through mass immigration, according to the New York Times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.breitbart.com



You are so right. Check out this article:

https://time.com/5922707/aapi-voters-georgia-senate-runoffs/

Asian Americans help turned GA blue. Which says a lot, if you think about it. The GOP's anti-immigrant stance is alienating traditionally conservative voters and making them vote Democrats. The GOP better change its ways or it will be reduced to a party of disaffected, bitter white people.


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## Gomig-21

F-22Raptor said:


> He legitimately could be charged with extortion.



The desperation in that phone call is really something. The difficulty is making the distinction between the position and the individual. We can certainly see this guy going that route and doing something and sounding that abusive and pathetic. But it's not something you would expect from the position of the President of the United States. He's already viscously butcherer that view and standard anyway lol.

You would also think the guy learned his lesson from the Ukraine phone call that led to his impeachment to the more recent Bob Woodward interview which also got him in a lot of trouble as far as opinions of the public. Those who were tittering on the edge of uncertainty as to how he handled the virus in the beginning and if they knew early enough to do something or not, were quickly convinced by that phone call and I'm sure that had an effect in the elections.

And speaking of being charged with extortion, I just found out that he could still be impeached again, even after he leaves office and if the senate votes in favor of impeachment this time, he would be disqualified from running for office again.

I suppose if he was charged and convicted of extortion, that would pretty much have the same effect!


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## gambit

Gomig-21 said:


> The desperation in that phone call is really something. The difficulty is making the distinction between the position and the individual. We can certainly see this guy going that route and doing something and sounding that abusive and pathetic. But it's not something you would expect from the position of the President of the United States. He's already viscously butcherer that view and standard anyway lol.
> 
> You would also think the guy learned his lesson from the Ukraine phone call that led to his impeachment to the more recent Bob Woodward interview which also got him in a lot of trouble as far as opinions of the public. Those who were tittering on the edge of uncertainty as to how he handled the virus in the beginning and if they knew early enough to do something or not, were quickly convinced by that phone call and I'm sure that had an effect in the elections.
> 
> And speaking of being charged with extortion, I just found out that he could still be impeached again, even after he leaves office and if the senate votes in favor of impeachment this time, he would be disqualified from running for office again.
> 
> I suppose if he was charged and convicted of extortion, that would pretty much have the same effect!


I listened and read the entire call and as much as I detest Clump as a president, what he said in the call is legally problematic, as in difficult to prosecute. What he said could be interpreted several different contexts.

Frump is not a sophisticated man, even his supporters, in and out of Fox News, knew that. His speech usually repeats the same idea or argument in different ways, typical of a bullying method, as if the speaker believes saying the same thing but in different ways means presenting different arguments. His vocabulary at his current age is far less than when he was younger and we can find the differences plenty online. But unfortunately for the Democrats, Dump's crudeness of speech now works in his favor as it will be difficult to convince a neutral jury that he meant to instigate a crime.

For the long term, assuming Bump will escape relatively unscathed other than more dirt on his image, Repugnicants will be reluctant to attach themselves to him for fear of even being tainted with crimes because of how he talk. The best way to get rid of Lump is to impeach him again so that he cannot run in '24.


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## Gomig-21

gambit said:


> I listened and read the entire call and as much as I detest Clump as a president, what he said in the call is legally problematic, as in difficult to prosecute. What he said could be interpreted several different contexts.



Yep, I agree. The way he worded it, it could be construed like he was only asking, or inquiring and not necessarily suggesting to the Georgia CoS to commit say that he did see Dominion take out the machines or change parts in the machines. All of those were obvious insinuations he was giving the CoS because of ultimately what followed at the end of those suggestions when he said "are you sure?" Then he said "No, you're not a Republican etc." or something along those lines. Laying the guilt trip on him so that he would acquiesce to his demands of showing something that would help the current president. 

So I guess it would really depend on how a good prosecutor would present his case and how good a defense attorney would argue the charges and then ultimately the unanimous decision of a jury of 12. So I agree, he did dance around the stuff he said but there are some incriminating things in there and it just depends on how it's presented and who decides on it.


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## gambit

Gomig-21 said:


> Yep, I agree. The way he worded it, it could be construed like he was only asking, or inquiring and not necessarily suggesting to the Georgia CoS to commit say that he did see Dominion take out the machines or change parts in the machines. All of those were obvious insinuations he was giving the CoS because of ultimately what followed at the end of those suggestions when he said "are you sure?" Then he said "No, you're not a Republican etc." or something along those lines. Laying the guilt trip on him so that he would acquiesce to his demands of showing something that would help the current president.
> 
> So I guess it would really depend on how a good prosecutor would present his case and how good a defense attorney would argue the charges and then ultimately the unanimous decision of a jury of 12. So I agree, he did dance around the stuff he said but there are some incriminating things in there and it just depends on how it's presented and who decides on it.


Consider this for a moment...

Trump knew that he was going to be recorded. Either Trump thought about it, or someone in his clique thought about it and warned him. By now, there is no way Trump is ignorant of how much of the US citizenry despise him down to the personal level even though they never met the guy. I do not think that Trump, despite his decades bathing in the public limelight, ever thought how anyone could hate him. Until now he learned and learned the hard way. So I think that his evasiveness in that phone call was deliberate because he knew the odds of recording and leak are pretty much five-9s.


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## Gomig-21

gambit said:


> Consider this for a moment...
> 
> Trump knew that he was going to be recorded. Either Trump thought about it, or someone in his clique thought about it and warned him. By now, there is no way Trump is ignorant of how much of the US citizenry despise him down to the personal level even though they never met the guy. I do not think that Trump, despite his decades bathing in the public limelight, ever thought how anyone could hate him. Until now he learned and learned the hard way. So I think that his evasiveness in that phone call was deliberate because he knew the odds of recording and leak are pretty much five-9s.



He definitely knows he's being recorded. I think all white house calls are automatically recorded since FDR's days as president and if he's not calling from the White House and was calling from Mar A Lago, then the statehouse in Georgia at the other end would automatically be recording these calls. Plus I think there's that disclaimer or announcement prior to the call starting that notifies the individuals on the line that they're being recorded. Otherwise it's completely illegal to record a phone call without at least notifying the subject(s) being recorded. Kinda like when you call the bank or the insurance co. to yell at them for charging to much. First thing they say is (this call is being recorded for quality assurance!) lol.


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## RabzonKhan

Democrat Senate candidate Raphael Warnock has defeated Republican Sen. Kelly Loeffler. 








And the other Democrat challenger Jon Ossoff is on the verge of defeating his Republican opponent. The Senate would be evenly divided between Republicans and Democrats, but once vice President-elect Kamala Harris is sworn in, she would have the power to break ties for Democrats.

After a long time, the Democrats will have the White House, Senate and the House. What a sweet victory! 


Meanwhile, in Washington DC:

Trump and his MAGA sore losers are holding a rally. 

Senate Republicans and House Republicans are challenging Electoral College votes, what a waste of time farce.

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## RabzonKhan

*Breaking news:** Pence informed Trump that he can't block Biden's win.  *

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## Microsoft

RabzonKhan said:


> *Breaking news:** Pence informed Trump that he can't block Biden's win. *
> 
> 
> View attachment 704163



Don't celebrate just yet!








Live Updates: Inside the Capitol Republicans Object to Biden’s Win; Outside, Protesters Breach Barricades


The House and Senate began a lengthy debate over President-elect Joe Biden’s victory as Republicans lodged their first objection to accepting the election results. President Trump addressed supporters near the White House before protesters marched to Capitol Hill.




www.nytimes.com





Arizona vote has been formally objected to! Can't wait to see shills screeching now.


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Democrat Senate candidate Raphael Warnock has defeated Republican Sen. Kelly Loeffler.



Honestly, I was shocked to hear he had won! I didn't think he had it in him especially in that southern most hellhole and against that robot with nothing but money. She is so wealthy it's crazy that she cares about being a senator. But back to the reverend, he raised a record amount of money that it would've been quite a loss had he not won. But I never thought he could pull it off and now with Ossoff projected as the winner, it will make for an amazing turn around, wow.


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## VCheng

That the world's most powerful man tried and failed to disrupt the US system is a testament to its everlasting strength. Considering what the country has endured in 2020, it has been a stress test that has shown its strengths and weaknesses, and the process of improving the system will carry on unabated. Let there be no doubt that due process will always win in this country.

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## F-22Raptor

Trumps Twitter account has been permanently suspended. It’s about time.


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## Gomig-21

F-22Raptor said:


> Trumps Twitter account has been permanently suspended. It’s about time.



That's quite unprecedented. Good riddance. I wouldn't care if we never heard a single thing from that donkey from here on.

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## ZeEa5KPul

I've got a question for all my American friends here. On a scale of 1 to 10 (with 1 being lowest and 10 being highest), how do you feel Trump has lived up to his election pledge to "make America great again"? Do you feel the greatness?

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## gambit

Gomig-21 said:


> That's quite unprecedented. Good riddance. I wouldn't care if we never heard a single thing from that donkey from here on.


Do you support suppressing the speech of anyone associated with Trump to any degree?


----------



## Gomig-21

gambit said:


> Do you support suppressing the speech of anyone associated with Trump to any degree?



Of course not. And let's be clear about our "freedom of speech" and the boundaries within that concept. Just because we have something called 'freedom of speech,' doesn't mean we get to say anything we want in any context we wish and within any platform we chose without any consequences. Twitter and most social media outlets have all kinds of rules and regulations that pretty much degrade the levels of freedom of speech. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that just because you have that freedom, doesn't mean you can get on any of these networks, bypass their rules and conditions and incite violence and insurrection onto any public domain, let alone the capital of the United States.


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## ZeEa5KPul

Gomig-21 said:


> Of course not. And let's be clear about our "freedom of speech" and the boundaries within that concept. Just because we have something called 'freedom of speech,' doesn't mean we get to say anything we want in any context we wish and within any platform we chose without any consequences. Twitter and most social media outlets have all kinds of rules and regulations that pretty much degrade the levels of freedom of speech. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that just because you have that freedom, doesn't mean you can get on any of these networks, bypass their rules and conditions and incite violence and insurrection onto any public domain, let alone the capital of the United States.


That's an interesting point of view. I have two questions:

Do you support extending "free speech" protections to avowed fascists who have the goal of overthrowing the constitutional order of the United States (and with it the First Amendment)?
What's your opinion on America's move toward a "Chinese-style" information management system (i.e. censorship) differing from the latter only in that it will be run incompetently by private corporations?
Perhaps @gambit, @Hamartia Antidote, and @F-22Raptor can take a crack at answering these two questions as well. Although I will note that they tend to duck the tough questions.


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## F-22Raptor

ZeEa5KPul said:


> That's an interesting point of view. I have two questions:
> 
> Do you support extending "free speech" protections to avowed fascists who have the goal of overthrowing the constitutional order of the United States (and with it the First Amendment)?
> What's your opinion on America's move toward a "Chinese-style" information management system (i.e. censorship) differing from the latter only in that it will be run incompetently by private corporations?





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347924770977964033

The terrorist in your profile photo has been arrested. He looks thrilled.

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## ZeEa5KPul

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347924770977964033
> 
> The terrorist in your profile photo has been arrested. He looks thrilled.


How nice. Try answering the questions I posed in my post. Make an attempt at a serious answer if you're capable.


----------



## Gomig-21

ZeEa5KPul said:


> That's an interesting point of view. I have two questions:



I would tend to say that it's more factual than only a PoV. It's the truth, hence fact.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> Do you support extending "free speech" protections to avowed fascists who have the goal of overthrowing the constitutional order of the United States (and with it the First Amendment)?



lol, of course not. They have their own and many other platforms they can spew their garbage on. It's not like they're being silenced at all. Not even close. 



ZeEa5KPul said:


> 2. What's your opinion on America's move toward a "Chinese-style" information management system (i.e. censorship) differing from the latter only in that it will be run incompetently by private corporations?;/quote]



Uhhhhmmmm......no thanks. Things are just fine the way they are and the system works. We've seen it happen right in front of our eyes. They tried, they created some damage, a few hours later they were removed and things went back to normal. Unfortunately a few lives were lost but the culprits will be rounded and justice will be served eventually,

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## gambit

ZeEa5KPul said:


> That's an interesting point of view. I have two questions:
> 
> Do you support extending "free speech" protections to avowed fascists who have the goal of overthrowing the constitutional order of the United States (and with it the First Amendment)?


Yes. Speech is not action. You can talk all you want, but am interested in action. Of course, the more you talk, the more attention you will get, so if your goal is the overthrow of the US, is it wise to talk so much? But therein lies the problem, if you do not talk, you will get nowhere.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> 2. What's your opinion on America's move toward a "Chinese-style" information management system (i.e. censorship) differing from the latter only in that it will be run incompetently by private corporations?


Government is 'competent' only in the sense that it is able to hide its incompetency, so from that perspective, government is no better than private corporations. I should know. I used to work for the goobermint. 

The goobermint is a monopoly in power. If there are contestant authorities, the result is a civil war. So out of necessity, there can be only one goobermint in a country. So if the goobermint is the only authority for information control and access, how are we to know if the authority is 'competent' or not? It is only with competition that we can make comparisons from which we can determine 'competency'.

The issue of censorship is about that monopoly inside a domain such as my house and your house. Inside our respective domains, we exercise exclusivity in everything. So from inside my house or your house, censorship cannot be discussed. Google cannot censor Duckduckgo, for example. Just like I, from my house, cannot censor information in your house. We can criticize the domains only if I am able to visit your house and you visit mine, then we analyze our observations.

Right now, America is not moving towards that 'Chinese-style' of censorship, despite what you see in the news. If there is a collusion of goobermint and private corporations, then that is for a different discussion.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> Perhaps @gambit, @Hamartia Antidote, and @F-22Raptor can take a crack at answering these two questions as well. Although I will note that they tend to duck the tough questions.


Give me a break. For all yrs I have been on this forum, it has consistently been you guys who have the tendency to duck tough questions.

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## gambit

Gomig-21 said:


> Of course not. And let's be clear about our "freedom of speech" and the boundaries within that concept. Just because we have something called 'freedom of speech,' doesn't mean we get to say anything we want in any context we wish and within any platform we chose without any consequences. Twitter and most social media outlets have all kinds of rules and regulations that pretty much degrade the levels of freedom of speech. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that just because you have that freedom, doesn't mean you can get on any of these networks, bypass their rules and conditions and incite violence and insurrection onto any public domain, let alone the capital of the United States.


Here are two examples...

1. "Fire...Fire...Fire...!!!" (in a crowded theater)

2. "I urge everyone to gather arms and overthrow the government"

Which situation will generate the most fear and most immediate reaction? Of course: Number One.

Let us say there are 100 people in both situations.

*Situation One* is why we prosecute those who yelled 'Fire' in a crowded theater when there is no fire. When one's life is threatened by a non-intelligent threat like flames, there is no 'fight' but only 'flight'. I got that from a friend who is a firefighter. For regular people, there is no 'or' like the original 'fight or flight' response. Even an experienced firefighter will 'flight' first before he can gather his wits and resources to 'fight' based on his training. If some dies in the stampede to flee a real fire, we would write the deaths off as tragic collateral damage. But if some dies to flee from an imagined fire, we will call that at least 'manslaughter' and prosecute the person who started the stampede.

*Situation Two* is problematic. How do I know if 100 people will respond and respond immediately? The government rarely is an immediate threat. The government is always a *READIED* threat. Standing by, if you will. A fire, a collapsing roof, or a burst water main, those are immediate threats. So if I want to overthrow the government, it would require forethought, planning, and execution. This would mean time delayed by some of that 100 people. What if some chose not to respond? What if no one respond?

*Back to social media*. The 'freedom of speech' lies in Situation Two in varying degrees. Some platforms will prosecute immediately. Some are more laissez faire. What if instead of saying 'overthrow the government' I say 'we have a bad government and it should be replaced'? If you say either one in Xi's house or Putin's house, you would be expelled. Whereas in my house, if you say either one, I would ask for a discussion. It is not that I cannot differentiate between 'overthrow the government' and 'bad government should be replaced'. The first is incitement. The second is opinion. But the First Amendment does not make that distinction.

*Incitement:* _the act of encouraging someone to do or feel something unpleasant or __violent_

Prosecution for incitement was once against abolition of slavery and other forms of social injustice.

Idea -- Speech -- Action

Incitement is speech. But why bother with speech? Why not go for the root cause: Idea?

Of course, neither Xi nor Putin can read minds, but their governments can do some things that can guess at Idea and preempt Speech.

Here is an abstract of a paid article...





__





SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals


Subscription and open access journals from SAGE Publishing, the world's leading independent academic publisher.




journals.sagepub.com





_*Why have few journalists ever stood in the dock for incitement to violate international humanitarian law? Their work as propagandists has been essential to governments committing war crimes, crimes against peace and genocide. *The answer matters both because impunity emboldens further violation and because the traditional distinctions between news reporting, news commentary and propaganda, and between journalists, commentators and activists, have eroded due to global news markets and social media. After presenting a brief history of prosecutions and non-prosecutions to establish the relative infrequency of prosecutions, this article reviews possible explanations, several of which are revealed in the foregoing historical survey. This investigation will suggest a multi-causal explanation that leans heavily on assumptions about the privileged position of journalists in liberal societies._​​One can be a propagandist without being in the service of the government. The article implied that incitement *SHOULD* be prosecutable.

Social media prosecuted Trump by removing him from their platforms. Their houses, their rights. But now, some Democrats urges the US, a greater house, to legally prosecute Trump and his associates in all three ares: Idea, Speech, and Action.

This is why the First Amendment do not make the distinction between 'incitement' and 'opinion'. The latitude is too wide for any government to have.


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## ZeEa5KPul

Gomig-21 said:


> Uhhhhmmmm......no thanks. Things are just fine the way they are and the system works. We've seen it happen right in front of our eyes. They tried, they created some damage, a few hours later they were removed and things went back to normal. Unfortunately a few lives were lost but the culprits will be rounded and justice will be served eventually,


Well, that's this time. Your system barely held against an incompetent fascist like Trump, would it hold against a competent fascist like a President Tom Cotton or President Tucker Carlson? And by the way, I would consider it pretty heavy-handed censorship when the sitting *president* (soon to be former president) is excommunicated from all major social media. Is he going to be a fixture on /pol/ now? I can't see Weibo ever banning Hu Jintao or Jiang Zemin.

As amusing as it is to watch the imperial collapse of the US in real-time, I do ultimately have some skin in this game. If fascists manage to get into power in the US then Canada won't be far behind. As you might imagine, that would be an outcome I prefer to avoid.

Being as you're originally from Egypt, I'd like to ask you your opinion on President Sisi. I've been following the geopolitics of the Middle East off and on since the Arab Spring and Syrian Civil War (it's an irl _Game of Thrones_), and I have to say that I consider myself a fan. He rescued the Egyptian state from the _ikhwan_, he implemented painful and necessary economic reforms that were delayed for decades, and he's got a pretty good relationship with China despite Egypt being in the American camp since the Yom Kippur War (as I recall, China is also heavily involved in building Egypt's new administrative capital). The Pharaoh Sisihotep I gets a  from me.


gambit said:


> I used to work for the goobermint.


You used to work for the *American* government. To put it kindly, America is hardly the gold standard in governance, even if we were to confine the discussion to liberal democracies, which are inherently inferior governments.


gambit said:


> The issue of censorship is about that monopoly inside a domain such as my house and your house. Inside our respective domains, we exercise exclusivity in everything. So from inside my house or your house, censorship cannot be discussed. Google cannot censor Duckduckgo, for example. Just like I, from my house, cannot censor information in your house. We can criticize the domains only if I am able to visit your house and you visit mine, then we analyze our observations.


That analogy would be germane to our discussion only if everyone had his own "house". In reality, there are a small handful of very large houses, whose patriarchs all form a very tightly-knit clique. If Google decides to soft-censor something, that something might as well not exist. Google is a _de facto_ Great Firewall like that in China - sure, you can bypass it (like you can bypass China's), but how many people are going to bother when just using the service is perfectly adequate for their needs.

I think that if Facebook and Twitter stick to their censorship of Trump, his movement would fizzle out (just the hardcores would remain on places like /pol/ and that Reddit-clone that starts with a 'p'). It would be a powerful demonstration in the efficacy of censorship to foster social stability.


gambit said:


> Right now, America is not moving towards that 'Chinese-style' of censorship, despite what you see in the news. If there is a collusion of goobermint and private corporations, then that is for a different discussion.


There is *always* collusion between the American government and major corporations. In fact, it would not be going too far to say that the government is nothing more than a confederation of major corporations with a thin political veneer applied to it.


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## gambit

ZeEa5KPul said:


> You used to work for the *American* government. To put it kindly, America is hardly the gold standard in governance, even if we were to confine the discussion to liberal democracies, which are inherently inferior governments.


How bad is the corruption in your goobermint? Or is corruption *NOT* a factor in grading against that gold standard for authoritarian style of governance?



ZeEa5KPul said:


> That analogy would be germane to our discussion only if everyone had his own "house". In reality, there are a small handful of very large houses, whose patriarchs all form a very tightly-knit clique. If Google decides to soft-censor something, that something might as well not exist. Google is a _de facto_ Great Firewall like that in China - sure, you can bypass it (like you can bypass China's), but how many people are going to bother when just using the service is perfectly adequate for their needs.


There are other search engines like Duckduckgo and even MS Bing. Sure, Google maybe technically superior, but having other search engines is akin to having contestant authorities inside a country. So yes, we do have an information civil war, if you will, among many houses. The reason why Google get so much attention is because of the sheer volume of people inside and outside the US who uses it, and because Google offers other services that other search providers do not. Lastly, there is the old text based usenet where not even mighty Google can displace.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> I think that if Facebook and Twitter stick to their censorship of Trump, his movement would fizzle out (just the hardcores would remain on places like /pol/ and that Reddit-clone that starts with a 'p'). It would be a powerful demonstration in the efficacy of censorship to foster social stability.


And what would happen if Congress decide to break up Google, Twitter, and Facebook? Right now, both Democrats and Republicans in Congress are considering it. The US Congress, divided as it is, is not merely entertaining the idea, but getting readied to debate it when the Biden Admin is seated. The threat is so real that I see a daily full page ad by Facebook in WaPo, which is not cheap, trying to rehabilitate Facebook's tarred image.

The rise of Parler was an alarm that no one expected. And the reason no one expected was because they underestimated the average Americans. If Amazon et al decide to sever service to Parler, someone will step up. You can bet your next yr's salary on it.

Social stability? The best form of social stability is by mutual compact among the people, not by top down imposition. In that, America and Americans are more stable than you think. I dare say that perhaps you are too used to that Chinese top down imposition model of social stability that you got unnerved by American periodic brief spikes in social issues, re 1 out of 7 in Hong Kong who are protesting to this day. What is happening in HK is American style activism and it is right in your face.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> There is *always* collusion between the American government and major corporations. In fact, it would not be going too far to say that the government is nothing more than a confederation of major corporations with a thin political veneer applied to it.


The business of America is business. President Calvin Coolidge said in 1925. And your China adopted that model when China realized she was failing everywhere in her house. You guys have been arguing on this forum on how meritocratic China's government is combining business experience with Party loyalty. So it looks like that Chinese veneer is thicker than ours.


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## ZeEa5KPul

gambit said:


> How bad is the corruption in your goobermint?


I'll assume you're speaking about China here, since Canada's government is Yet Another Democracy no one sane expects much from. That it doesn't fall into an abyss (probably following the US as it always does) is all anyone can ask of it.

Corruption in China is much better than it used to be, and in future it's going to be much better than it is now. Why? Because the Chinese government is not captured by special interests using it to advance their own goals. It is a responsive, adaptive entity that's always changing to better execute its function: governing China.

Westerners conceive of governments as necessary evils, as impositions from above to be endured in the best of times and destroyed in the worst. This contempt is evident in your pejorative "goobermint" - although it is amusing that your contempt wasn't enough to stop you from working for and taking money from it.

Chinese civilization simply does not share this view - to China, its government is an intrinsic part of its cultural identity, not an outside invader. Government is part of what China _is_.


gambit said:


> Or is corruption *NOT* a factor in grading against that gold standard for authoritarian style of governance?


It is a factor, an important one but not the biggest one. The biggest one is adaptability - how well a government improves and adapts in response to the social and political stresses applied to it. Here the Chinese government gets the full grade, while the US government fails miserably.

Corruption is also relative. For a country too poor to provide health care to all its citizens, not having universal healthcare is forgivable. A country wealthy enough to do it but doesn't because of its corruption is monstrous.


gambit said:


> There are other search engines like Duckduckgo and even MS Bing.


Here are the relevant market shares:








Search Engine Market Share United States Of America | Statcounter Global Stats


This graph shows the market share of search engines in United States Of America based on over 10 billion monthly page views.




gs.statcounter.com






gambit said:


> And what would happen if Congress decide to break up Google, Twitter, and Facebook?


We shall see. This whole imbroglio started because traditional media don't like that social media and alternative outlets are cutting into their action. The big tech firms will just take a slap on the wrist and censor themselves further to placate their foes, but nobody is getting broken up. Why? Because big tech - like big anything - owns the Congress.


gambit said:


> Social stability? The best form of social stability is by mutual compact among the people, not by top down imposition.


This might be how it's written in American political science textbooks, but I'm not seeing this theory playing out in the real world. All I see is increasing polarization and rising fascism and extremism. And this isn't a recent thing, this has been happening over decades. It seems a lot of people want to renegotiate the terms of the "mutual compact".


gambit said:


> In that, America and Americans are more stable than you think. I dare say that perhaps you are too used to that Chinese top down imposition model of social stability that you got unnerved by American periodic brief spikes in social issues


Have some shame, my guy. Your national legislature was just looted and trashed by a violent, insurrectionist mob incited and supported by your president and you're giving me the "this is fine" line? I don't think so.


gambit said:


> The business of America is business.


Glad you agree with me.


gambit said:


> So it looks like that Chinese veneer is thicker than ours.


There is no veneer. The business of China is government.


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## Gomig-21



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## gambit

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Corruption in China is much better than it used to be, and in future it's going to be much better than it is now. Why? Because the Chinese government is not captured by special interests using it to advance their own goals. It is a responsive, adaptive entity that's always changing to better execute its function: governing China.


No, the corruption in China is not getting better. It is getting better at being covered up by the Party. But the sheer money involved is too tempting for the issue to be eradicated, only managed at least for perception's sake. Keep in mind that Party officials, including Xi himself, benefited from corruption long before the drive to supposedly 'combat corruption'. You cannot dismiss testimonies about corruption from foreigners who has to deal with Party officials at all levels.

Granted, testimonies are trailing indicators, or statistically time delayed. You cannot record and analyze something *UNTIL* that something occurred. But in dealing with statistics of anything, including recorded instances of corruption, we have the same trends out of China: frequency and grouping. Namely, corruption in China did not decreased. The same amount of money bribed to the same levels of organization as testified by foreigners, from CEOs down to line level contractors. I want something fixed? For an additional 'fee' to another subcontractor, I can get it fixed. So your claim that the Chinese government is somehow above the fray is absurd in the face of reality. The Chinese government is swimming in money.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> Westerners conceive of governments as necessary evils, as impositions from above to be endured in the best of times and destroyed in the worst. This contempt is evident in your pejorative "goobermint" - although it is amusing that your contempt wasn't enough to stop you from working for and taking money from it.
> 
> Chinese civilization simply does not share this view - to China, its government is an intrinsic part of its cultural identity, not an outside invader. Government is part of what China _is_.


All governments are intrinsic to their countries. Even Americans accepts that. But why did you state the obvious when it was about China but then call it an 'evil' when it was about US? The opposite of 'evil' is 'good', right? So why not say for Chinese, the government is always 'good' in contrast to how Westerners views the government? Or is it because you are afraid of the words 'good' and 'benevolent' as descriptors for the Chinese government because you *KNOW* that in essence, *ALL* goobermints are necessary evils, no matter you want to spin it for China.

Nay...You are not merely afraid of the words 'good' and 'benevolent' for China. You are *TERRIFIED* of them while Americans have no problems calling the goobermint for what it is.

Intrinsic? I expected better than that. 



ZeEa5KPul said:


> It is a factor, an important one but not the biggest one. The biggest one is adaptability - how well a government improves and adapts in response to the social and political stresses applied to it. Here the Chinese government gets the full grade, *while the US government fails miserably.*


By what metrics? If we go with hard metrics, such as tangibles like economics and STEM, the US, as young as it is, quite rivaled the much older China in terms of achievements. And it is hard to disassociate economics and STEM from those social and political stresses. Often, advances in economics and STEM creates unknown social and political stresses.

In vitro fertilization. For all of human history, the alternative is adoption. Now we have laws on what to do with frozen eggs when a couple is going thru a divorce and fights over what to do with the eggs.

Slavery. The US went thru a civil war, exited intact, and abolished slavery. Hard to over emphasize the great immorality that is slavery and the sacrifice the country made to rectify that sin.

So now we have China emulating US in some areas and fight US in other areas. And remember that China lost an ideological Cold War. How was that social and political stress? You boasted on how China is great in pulling so many out of poverty, but then you guys ran away from the inevitable question of how did China got so poor in the first place. That was one hell of a social stress when Chinese had to resort to eating tree bark and even cannibalism to survive.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> Corruption is also relative. For a country too poor to provide health care to all its citizens, not having universal healthcare is forgivable. A country wealthy enough to do it but doesn't because of its corruption is monstrous.


Spare US all the universal health care argument. You look at this from the usual top down perspective and it revealed how little you understand Americans. You are used to using the top down method because you are essentially a dictator wannabe. You believe that you know better for me than I for myself.

If I do not want universal health care, then it is the government's fault? What kind of logic is that?

This has nothing to do with national wealth and how to use it. For now, most Americans do not want a government health care system. The ACA or 'Obamacare' is not universal health care but a pathetic attempt at trying to convince Americans into the idea. If you want to use the word 'monstrous' to describe the situation, then the target is *AMERICANS*, not the goobermint. 

Call *ME* a monster for not supporting universal health care because *AT THIS TIME*, I have not seen a palatable alternative to my employer provided health care plan. Convince, not force, *ME*. Unlike you, the Democrats know that the 'monsters' are the average Americans who stands in their way towards universal health care. But as with all dictators, choice for the people and persuasion are alien concepts, ain't it? We are too stupid to know what is good for us so you must do it for us, right?

What you have is a shaming, not a logical, argument.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> Here are the relevant market shares:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Search Engine Market Share United States Of America | Statcounter Global Stats
> 
> 
> This graph shows the market share of search engines in United States Of America based on over 10 billion monthly page views.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gs.statcounter.com


So what? For now, Google is good enough for what most people uses it for. But you missed the point. Just like how Chinese VPN-ed their way out of China, if Americans want, we will have or find alternatives to Google.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> We shall see. This whole imbroglio started because traditional media don't like that social media and alternative outlets are cutting into their action. The big tech firms will just take a slap on the wrist and censor themselves further to placate their foes, but nobody is getting broken up. Why? *Because big tech - like big anything - owns the Congress.*


Chinese big tech owns the government.

What is the likelihood of the US Congress breaking up Facebook? Serious enough to bring life into Zuckerberg's android like face. We broke up AT&T. Kodak, Standard OIl, and Microsoft are other terrifying examples. Standard Oil became 34 separate entities and they competed against each other.

What is the likelihood of the Party breaking up Huawei or Beidou? Practically zero. The money is too good and the services are too vital to the country. The Party may punish *INDIVIDUALS* such as Jack Ma, but his creations will continue as is to serve the financial interests of the country and the Party.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> This might be how it's written in American political science textbooks, but I'm not seeing this theory playing out in the real world. All I see is increasing polarization and rising fascism and extremism. And this isn't a recent thing, this has been happening over decades. It seems a lot of people want to renegotiate the terms of the "mutual compact".


And yet, American neighbors with diverse political views are not killing each other. No one charged anyone with 'desecrating' the Constitution and a mob stoned the alleged offender to death. This year, I drove cross country relocating to the east coast and along the way, that mutual compact got state troopers saluting me and meal discounts at diners once they saw 'VETERAN' status on my driver's license. My new neighbors, including a black grandmother, welcomed me with beers and homemade cookies as the movers drove up with my household goods.

The ones that are killing Americans does it indiscriminately, not specifically. In this, they are anarchists, ANTIFA and BLM, and anarchists do not care of your political views. They have divorced themselves from that mutual compact long ago. They used political views only as cover for their actions, not as deeply held credo. They are social outliers and the average Americans, the ones that Democrats ridiculed as 'clinging to their guns and religion', are not motivated by anarchist beliefs.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> Have some shame, my guy. Your national legislature was just looted and trashed by a violent, insurrectionist mob incited and supported by your president and you're giving me the "this is fine" line? I don't think so.


Shame? Really? How many were at Tiananmen Square and what did they do? Right now, the Party is glad that the 1-out-of-7 situation in HK is mostly peaceful. Proportionally, that is greater than the American Trumpeteers who are crying foul over the election. In the end, this will blow over, and everything will be business as normal.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> Glad you agree with me.


And about 150 millions other Americans. And about unknown number of non-Americans outside our borders who agreed with the model and tries to emulate in their countries, including China.



ZeEa5KPul said:


> There is no veneer. The business of China is government.


Not today, it ain't. The switch was dire enough that the Party had to insert its commissars into every Chinese corporation that has greater than X employees and Y financial status to keep the capitalistas from running amok.

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## RabzonKhan

Trump becomes first U.S. President to be Impeached twice!

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## CrazyZ

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump becomes first U.S. President to be Impeached twice!
> 
> View attachment 706640


Its not all losing. Trump got tax cuts for the rich and peace for Israel. Trump also convinced impoverished white supremacists to become expendable foot soldiers for rich Zionists  (show some respect for that).

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump becomes first U.S. President to be Impeached twice!
> 
> View attachment 706640



I mean, the sad part is that this one individual has single-handedly almost destroyed the hallowed institution that is the president of the United States. Let's just take a quick look at the scum he brought with him to the White House.

1) Fake News. 
2) The media is the enemy of the people
3) Hoax this, hoax that
4) Great people ON BOTH SIDES...
5) Proud Boys stand back stand down or some crap like that
6) Displayed the WORST behavior of a thug in the first presidential debate
7) COMPLETELY botched the handling of the corona virus calling it a hoax at first 
8) And the worst of all IMO, calling the voting process of the election rigged and stolen because that's what really has brought this country to the brink of disaster.

You would think all this behavior was coming from an enemy of the US! Not the president!!!! What a sad day in the history of this country and shows how dangerous it is to elect just anyone to this great position of super authority that comes with an unequivocal level of responsibility that clearly was completely lacking by this disaster of the freak!

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## denel

Banana republic of Trump.

our Zapiro gets it right always. Lunnie tunes.

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## Sharma Ji




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## Destranator

This is a brutal demolition of Dave Rubin's grifty career:

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## RabzonKhan

*Live: The Presidential Inauguration Of Joseph R. Biden, Jr. | NBC News:*


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## Gomig-21

What's a good name for this, the final flight of shame?







At least Mike Pence had the decency to show up at the inauguration like a true American who respects the long-standing traditions of this country. And this donkey thinks he was making America great again loool. He did exactly the opposite because his outlook is not that of patriotism. It's not that of what this country represents. It's what a fringe of this society would want it to be and he brought division and divisiveness and hatred and negativity and bigotry, not greatness. Nothing even close to that. A form of the old, bigoted America is what he and his supporters wanted to make this country. Good riddance.

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## VCheng

Gomig-21 said:


> What's a good name for this, the final flight of shame?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least Mike Pence had the decency to show up at the inauguration like a true American who respects the long-standing traditions of this country. And this donkey thinks he was making America great again loool. He did exactly the opposite because his outlook is not that of patriotism. It's not that of what this country represents. It's what a fringe of this society would want it to be and he brought division and divisiveness and hatred and negativity and bigotry, not greatness. Nothing even close to that. A form of the old, bigoted America is what he and his supporters wanted to make this country. Good riddance.



We elected him. We removed him. We, the people.

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## RabzonKhan

*Biden is sworn in as the 46th President of the United States. 



Thank goodness our long national nightmare is over.




*

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## Gomig-21

There's a plaque here in Boston commemorating one of the greatest lines in a presidential speech in history, made on this day of his inauguration in 1961.

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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> Thank goodness our long national nightmare is over.



The national nightmare ends only if we, the people, wake up - and remain eternally vigilant.

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## RabzonKhan

It’s a new day in America. Biden

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> It’s a new day in America. Biden



His inauguration speech was really good.

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## Ali_Baba

Congrats to USA, the era of the Orange Menace is now over. Hopefully normality will return to the USA and they can focus on fighting the pandemic.

As Biden said, more people have been lost to COVID than during WWII for the USA. Think of that !!!

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## CrazyZ

Ali_Baba said:


> Congrats to USA, the era of the Orange Menace is now over. Hopefully normality will return to the USA and they can focus on fighting the pandemic.
> 
> As Biden said, more people have been lost to COVID than during WWII for the USA. Think of that !!!


Unfortunately this nightmare will continue. Trump is like an evil cockroach that always comes back. He will start his own news network and political party. His kids will also get involved. The Trump family is now the face of right wing lunatics in America. 

Only silver lining is that republican party will be shattered as a consequence. Trump's "Loony Tunes Party" will take at least a third of current republican voters, probably more. I am personally shocked at how many middle age white people believe in Trumps conspiracy theories and support his racism.

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## cloud4000

Ali_Baba said:


> Congrats to USA, the era of the Orange Menace is now over. Hopefully normality will return to the USA and they can focus on fighting the pandemic.
> 
> As Biden said, more people have been lost to COVID than during WWII for the USA. Think of that !!!



I'm sorry to say this: but the country is no less divided after Biden's election than before it. Democrats might control the White House and both houses of the legislature, but it's hardly a mandate. Their lead is razor-thin and can be easily lost in two-years time. 

It will be interesting to see what the Democrats will do to make sure another Trump will no happen, but if they lean toward socialism, then all bets are off. I'm hearing rumors that Biden is thinking amnesty for illegal immigrants, but if that's the case, the Democrats will be toast. 

And I'll be one of them. No amnesty for illegal immigrants.

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## RabzonKhan

The Senate once again acquitted Trump during his second impeachment trial, with 57 Senators voting to convict the racist traitor and 43 Republican cowards voting against it. Seven Republicans (sided with America over the traitor) joined the Democrats in voting to convict, but unfortunately, they fell short of the 67 votes needed for two-thirds majority. Once again, the traitor got away for betraying his oath and his country!

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> His inauguration speech was really good.


I agree. And this is what Fox News Chris Wallace said: “I have been listening to these inaugural addresses since 1961…” “I thought it was a great speech… I thought this was the best inaugural address I have ever heard.” “The theme of the inauguration was America United, a subject that holds greater weight than it normally would considering that exactly 2 weeks ago there was a mob of thugs, of insurrectionists, of domestic terrorists on the inaugural stand.”

“Joe Biden was saying that democracy prevailed, we were able to get through that.” “And he was talking about how we need to get through that in the future if we are going to be a united country.”

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## Gomig-21

laughnlady79 said:


> It depends on which area you are living in. There are a lot of banks out there with their good and bad points. You can survey every bank and collect their information and their rules and policies speedput
> 
> Also, you can collect a lot of information about banks from your friends and other family members who do their business through the bank. They can guide you properly. At the end of the day, you will be able to compare all the information you have collected and you can easily figure out which one’s best for you. You can also get help from this site in this regard.



It's an interesting dynamic for sure. YOU have percentage of people struggling and those getting by pretty well and they're no even in the 91t par of the 1 percent either; Look at us for example, yo0u won't find q harder working guy than this kid {btw, does turning 55 on the the7th of this month still considered a kid? never mind} but we enjoy taking our boat out a lot but I would never consider myself doing well enough to think about retiring and time soon.

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## RabzonKhan

Pres. Biden signed 17 executive orders on day one (January 20) as president. Promises kept!

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> It's an interesting dynamic for sure. YOU have percentage of people struggling and those getting by pretty well and they're no even in the 91t par of the 1 percent either; Look at us for example, yo0u won't find q harder working guy than this kid {btw, does turning 55 on the the7th of this month still considered a kid? never mind} but we enjoy taking our boat out a lot but I would never consider myself doing well enough to think about retiring and time soon.


You’re a good man, you took time to respond, but that person is a troll.


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> You’re a good man, you took time to respond, but that person is a troll.



Why thank you for the really kind words there, my friend, but I had no idea he's a troll. Are you sure? lol. It seemed his posts were genuine answers to some of mine.

Anyway, notice I am getting a bit better at typing on this new laptop that I can't stand! lol. Much preferred my older, antique, Toshiba with a disc and weighed a ton.

BTW, notice the good news in the decline of covid cases.

CDC on Twitter: "Preliminary data show that rates of #COVID19 associated hospitalizations continue to decline after peaking in early January. This decline is promising, but we should all do our part to slow the spread: Wear a mask. Stay 6 feet apart. Avoid crowds. More: https://t.co/iDFoVd3znf. https://t.co/uwdd4BbzdJ" / Twitter

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## Yankee-stani

Andrew Yang back on the Campaign Trail after having Covid-19 makes stop in Bay Ridge,Brooklyn - YouTube

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## RabzonKhan

*Promises Made Promises Kept! *

Biden promised: “At least 100 million COVID vaccine shots into the arms of the American people in the first 100 days. 100 million shots in the first 100 days. And we’ll follow the guidance of science to get the vaccines to those most at risk.”

On March 13, the United States administered over 105 million doses of Covid-19 vaccine, more than 47 days before his target date of his 100th day in office. 

The United States has carried out more vaccinations than any country in the world.

March 20, 21. COVID-19 vaccine doses administered:

The US 121.44 million.

China 70.00 million.

India 44.6 million.

UK 28.99 million.

Brazil 13.48 million.

Israel 9.69 Million.

Chile 8.46 million.

Russia 8.31 million.


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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> BTW, have you or @RabzonKhan or @VCheng or anyone else hear of the Republicans running fake 'Democratic' candidates in certain states (I believe Florida & Rhode Island) and these are phantom candidates designed to be super liberal and to take votes away from the legitimate Democratic candidate to reduce their total votes and make the Republican candidate win? I just saw this on he news and it will become a bigger story and once it does I'll post more about it but I bet Rabzon has heard of it and the scary part about it is that it tethers on the brink of being legal and not fraudulent except they will certainly put a stop to it because it has affected at least 2 races that they know about by taking votes away from the legitimate Democratic candidate and giving them to this "Ghost" candidate created by a republican group! This might explain why the orangutan has been screaming about fraudulent elections for a while since he was aware of his own party's shenanigans! lol


Remember? That fake candidate and his Republican sponsor both have been charged.

*2 charged in alleged Florida sham candidate scheme, including former lawmaker*

By CNN staff
Published: Mar. 19, 2021


(CNN) - A former Florida state lawmaker Frank Artiles was arrested Thursday, accused of funding a sham candidate in an upset election.

“Today we are alleging that November’s Florida Senate District 37 election involved crimes,” Miami Dade State Attorney Kathy Rundle said.

She said disgraced lawmaker Artiles has masterminded a plot to help a Republican win a key Florida State Senate seat.

“He knew then and we are alleging that he knows now that he was blatantly thumbing his nose at the law,” Rundle said.

Last November, incumbent Democrat José Javier Rodríguez lost his seat by just 32 votes, a race he said he would have won: “There’s no question that this had an impact on a race that was ultimately decided by 32 votes out of nearly a quarter million cast.”

There was a third candidate in the race, a sham candidate with the same last name as the Democrat, who siphoned away Democratic votes - Alex Rodriguez, who’s also charged in the plan.

Alex Rodriguez told officials Frank Artiles paid him nearly $45,000 to be a so-called ghost candidate.

He was promoted as a liberal in advertising mailers but never campaigned and never debated.

“In addition to the same surname, there was also a very well orchestrated and funded last minute campaign to persuade voters and frankly trick them,” José Javier Rodríguez said.

While entering a sham candidate into a political race isn’t a crime, the funding of one is, according to prosecutors.

Both Artiles and Rodriguez are charged with three felonies each. *Read more*




Gomig-21 said:


> Why thank you for the really kind words there, my friend, but I had no idea he's a troll. Are you sure? lol.


My friend, it is considered trolling when people post off-topic messages all over the forum. And I think that’s why his/her account was banned/removed from the forum.

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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

Mask Wearing for Dummies.

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## RabzonKhan

*WATCH LIVE: Pres. Biden on his $2 trillion infrastructure plan — 3/31/2021*

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

Bravo. The former leader of the Republican Party just shredded his own party for being full of lunatics.

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## RabzonKhan



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## Enigma SIG

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 730910


Any stats on how many underage girls and women he's sniffed in the same period?


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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

*'A complete ripoff': Campaign finance experts puzzled and stunned by Trump camp's reported 'money bomb' ploy*

Grace Panetta 
3 hours ago


*Elderly donors who gave a few hundred dollars to former President Donald Donald Trump's reelection campaign were shocked to see thousands drained from their accounts. Refund requests spiked in the final months of the campaign. The ensuing surges in credit card fraud claims associated with Trump even got on the radar of the US' biggest banks. *

A New York Times investigation published Saturday detailed a recurring donation scheme reportedly referred to as "the money bomb" that the Trump campaign used to pad its coffers in the final months of the campaign through the GOP fundraising platform WinRed.

*The tactics included added pre-checked recurring donation boxes at the bottom of fundraising emails and creating an opt-out instead of opt-in system for recurring donations. And as time drew closer to the election, the recurring donations went from monthly to weekly. And the fine print by those bright-yellow donation boxes became smaller and more confusing, leading to donors, including many elderly ones, unknowingly signing up to give thousands in contributions.*


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## RabzonKhan



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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 733037



Wasn't the shooter (should call him a killer) an ex-military guy? I don't know if he was Army or a Marine or from another branch, but this is just terrible like not understanding the mentality of wanting to do something like this is schools. Crazy.

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## RabzonKhan

*Institute of Politics at Harvard Kennedy School*
April 23, 2021

*A national poll of America’s 18-to-29 year olds released today by the Institute of Politics at Harvard Kennedy School* shows that despite the state of our politics, hope for America among young people is rising dramatically, especially among people of color. As more young Americans are likely to be politically engaged than they were a decade ago, they overwhelmingly approve of the job President Biden is doing, favor progressive policies, and have faith in their fellow Americans.

In the March 9-22 survey of 2,513 young Americans, the Harvard Youth Poll looked at views regarding the Biden administration’s first 100 days:








*Fifty-nine percent (59%) of 18-to-29-year-old Americans approve of President Biden’s job performance overall; 65% approve of his handling of the coronavirus and 57% race relations*

President Biden’s highest approval marks come from young people of color (Blacks 77%, Hispanics 70%), college students (61%), and college graduates (67%). Females (61%) are more likely than males (57%) to approve of his job performance, as are young registered voters (61%) compared to the one-in-five in our poll who report that they are unregistered (55%). Among college voters, Biden’s 63% approval is the highest recorded in the 21-year history of the IOP survey (Bush 61% in 2003, Obama 57% in 2016).

President Biden’s highest marks come from his handling of the coronavirus (65% approval), 58% approve of his handling of climate change and education, 57% race relations, 56% health care, 55% mental health, 53% the economy, and 52% national security: 








*Two-thirds of youth, but only 26% of young Republicans, believe that Joe Biden won the election fairly *
Overall, 68% of young Americans believe that Joe Biden won the election fairly, while a quarter say that there were enough problems with the election to question whether Joe Biden won--and 7% believe that Donald Trump won the election. Unsurprisingly, there are deep partisan divides; Republicans are divided by level of education and geography. 

Twenty percent of Republicans believe that Trump won the election against Joe Biden, but among those who do not attend college and do not have a degree, the number jumps to 26%. More than a third (35%) of young Republicans residing in rural America believe Trump won in November--only 11% of this group believes that Biden won fairly:







One-third of young Republicans say that Trump was fully (9%) or partially (24%) responsible for inciting the breach and storming of the Capitol on January 6th, 2021; 88% of Democrats and 64% of independents say the same. 

Thirty percent of young Americans believe that history will judge Donald Trump as “the worst president ever.” Overall, 26% give the 45th president positive marks (best, great, good), while 54% give Trump negative marks (bad, terrible, worst); 11% believe he will go down as an average president.


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## RabzonKhan

*College-Educated ABANDONING Republican Party*

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## RabzonKhan

The S&P 500 has risen 24.1% under Biden with numbers that easily beat any of his predecessors, including Trump. Now, that is going to depress him. He used to constantly brag about the performance of the stock market as if he was personally running the stock market.  

And according to J.P. Morgan Chase strategist John Normand under “Biden’s first 100 days have already delivered the strongest post-election equity returns in at least 75 years.”

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## RabzonKhan

*Pres. Biden addresses joint session of Congress April 28, 2021*








By The Associated Press

WASHINGTON — *President Joe Biden declared Wednesday night that “America is rising anew” *as he called for an expansion of federal programs to drive the economy past the pandemic and broadly extend the social safety net on a scale not seen in decades.

In his first address to Congress, he pointed optimistically to the nation’s emergence from the coronavirus scourge as a moment for America to prove that its democracy can still work and maintain primacy in the world.

Speaking in highly personal terms while demanding massive structural changes, the president marked his first 100 days in office by proposing a $1.8 trillion investment in children, families and education to help rebuild an economy devastated by the virus and compete with rising global competitors.

His speech represented both an audacious vision and a considerable gamble. He is governing with the most slender of majorities in Congress, and even some in his own party have blanched at the price tag of his proposals.

*At the same time, the speech highlighted Biden’s fundamental belief in the power of government as a force for good, even at a time when it is so often the object of scorn.*

*“I can report to the nation: America is on the move again,” he said. “Turning peril into possibility. Crisis into opportunity. Setback into strength.”*

While the ceremonial setting of the Capitol was the same as usual, the visual images were unlike any previous presidential address. Members of Congress wore masks and were seated apart because of pandemic restrictions. Outside the grounds were still surrounded by fencing after insurrectionists in January protesting Biden’s election stormed to the doors of the House chamber where he gave his address.

The nationally televised ritual raised the stakes for his ability to sell his plans to voters of both parties, even if Republican lawmakers prove resistant. The president is following the speech by hitting the road to push his plans, beginning in Georgia on Thursday and then on to Pennsylvania and Virginia in the days ahead.

*“America is ready for takeoff. We are working again. Dreaming again. Discovering again. Leading the world again. We have shown each other and the world: There is no quit in America,” Biden said.*

This year’s scene at the front of the House chamber also had a historic look: For the first time, a female vice president, Kamala Harris, was seated behind the chief executive. And she was next to another woman, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

*The first ovation came as Biden greeted “Madam Vice President.” He added, “No president has ever said those words from this podium, and it’s about time.”*

The chamber was so sparsely populated that individual claps could be heard echoing off the walls.

*Yet Biden said, “I have never been more confident or more optimistic about America. We have stared into an abyss of insurrection and autocracy — of pandemic and pain — and ‘We the People’ did not flinch.”
*
At times, the president plainly made his case for democracy itself.

*Biden demanded that the government take care of its own as a powerful symbol to the world of an America willing to forcefully follow its ideals and people. He confronted an issue rarely faced by an American president, namely that in order to compete with autocracies like China, the nation needs “to prove that democracy still works” after his predecessor’s baseless claims of election fraud and the ensuing attack on the U.S. Capitol.*

*“Can our democracy overcome the lies, anger, hate and fears that have pulled us apart?” he asked. “America’s adversaries – the autocrats of the world – are betting it can’t. They believe we are too full of anger and division and rage. They look at the images of the mob that assaulted this Capitol as proof that the sun is setting on American democracy. They are wrong. And we have to prove them wrong.”*

Biden repeatedly hammered home that his plans would put Americans back to work, restoring the millions of jobs lost to the virus. He laid out an extensive proposal for universal preschool, two years of free community college, $225 billion for child care and monthly payments of at least $250 to parents. His ideas target frailties that were uncovered by the pandemic, and he argues that economic growth will best come from taxing the rich to help the middle class and the poor.

Biden’s speech also provided an update on combating the COVID-19 crisis he was elected to tame, showcasing hundreds of millions of vaccinations and relief checks delivered to help offset the devastation wrought by a virus that has killed more than 573,000 people in the United States. *He also championed his $2.3 trillion infrastructure plan, a staggering figure to be financed by higher taxes on corporations.*

His appeals were often emotive and personal, talking about Americans needing food and rental assistance. He also spoke to members of Congress as a peer as much as a president, singling out Sen. Mitch McConnell, the Republicans’ leader, to praise him and speaking as one at a professional homecoming.

The GOP members in the chamber largely stayed silent, even refusing to clap for seemingly universal goals like reducing childhood poverty. Sen. Tim Scott of South Carolina said, in the Republicans’ designated response, that Biden was more rhetoric than action.

“Our president seems like a good man,” Scott said. “But our nation is starving for more than empty platitudes.”

The president spoke against a backdrop of the weakening but still lethal pandemic, staggering unemployment and a roiling debate about police violence against Blacks. He also used his address to touch on the broader national reckoning over race in America, urging legislation be passed by the anniversary of George Floyd’s death next month, and to call on Congress to act on the thorny issues of prescription drug pricing, gun control and modernizing the nation’s immigration system.

In his first three months in office, Biden has signed a $1.9 trillion COVID-19 relief bill — passed without a single GOP vote — and has shepherded direct payments of $1,400 per person to more than 160 million households. Hundreds of billions of dollars in aid will soon arrive for state and local governments, enough money that overall U.S. growth this year could eclipse 6% — a level not seen since 1984. Administration officials are betting that it will be enough to bring back all 8.4 million jobs lost to the pandemic by next year.

A significant amount proposed just Wednesday would ensure that eligible families receive at least $250 monthly per child through 2025, extending the enhanced tax credit that was part of Biden’s COVID-19 aid. There would be more than $400 billion for subsidized child care and free preschool for all 3- and 4-year-olds.

Another combined $425 billion would go to permanently reduce health insurance premiums for people who receive coverage through the Affordable Care Act, as well a national paid family and medical leave program. Further spending would be directed toward Pell Grants, historically Black and tribal institutions and to allow people to attend community college tuition-free for two years.

Funding all of this would be a series of tax increases on the wealthy that would raise about $1.5 trillion over a decade. Republican lawmakers in Congress so far have balked at the price tags of Biden’s plans, complicating the chances of passage in a deeply divided Washington.

_By Jonathan Lemire and Josh Boak. Darlene Superville contributed._

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## RabzonKhan

*Republicans Dupe Voters By Touting COVID Relief Package That They Voted Against*

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## Gomig-21

Amazing the difference between someone who really knows how to be a president and the disastrous failure of the last 4 orange years!!! OooooF!

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=296629688746905

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## RabzonKhan

With democracy under threat across the country, NBC’s Mehdi Hasan details exactly how Republicans are trying to dismantle voting rights, state by state, which is where most elections are regulated. But as the vast majority of the 361 voter restriction bills introduced by Republicans in 47 states haven’t yet been passed into law, Hasan says there’s still time to fight back. But not if Dems and the media “both sides” the issue.


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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

*Let's talk about the Republican plan for 2022 and beyond....*


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## RabzonKhan

Talk about voter fraud. This freaking scumbag murdered his wife and used her mail-in ballot to fraudulently vote for a con man. Important point, he was charged for voter fraud, shows that our election system is not some joke, as Trump and his supporters will want people to believe.


*Husband charged with murder of missing wife in Colorado also charged with voter fraud for filling out her ballot*

By Hollie Silverman, CNN 11 hrs ago

A Colorado man who was recently charged with murder in the disappearance of his wife a year ago has also been charged with voter fraud for voting for Donald Trump in the 2020 presidential election using his wife's mail-in ballot, according to an affidavit. 






© Chaffee County Sheriff's Office Barry Morphew, who has been charged with murder in the disappearance of his wife a year ago, now faces a voter fraud charge. 


Barry Lee Morphew last week was charged with murder, tampering with physical evidence and attempting to influence a public servant in connection with the death of his wife, Suzanne Morphew.

Suzanne was reported missing on May 10, 2020.

An arrest warrant filed in Chaffee County, Colorado on Thursday shows that Barry Morphew faces charges of forgery and offenses relating to mail ballots.

*The affidavit shows that a Chaffee County clerk reported the alleged voter fraud on October 22, 2020, after receiving a "voter ballot predesignated for a missing person, identified as Suzanne Renee Morphew."*
*
While the ballot did not have a voter signature, it had a handwritten name of Barry Lee Morphew on the designated signature line for a witness, according to the affidavit.

When FBI agents went to interview Barry Morphew on April 22, 2021, he told them he did it because he wanted Trump to win reelection.*

"Barry replied 'Just because I wanted Trump (referring to President Donald Trump) to win,'" and "'I just thought, give him (referring to President Trump) another vote,'" the affidavit said.

Morphew allegedly also said, "I figured all these other guys are cheating" and "I know she (referring to Suzanne Renee Morphew) was going to vote for Trump (referring to President Trump) anyway," according to the affidavit.

He allegedly told investigators that he didn't know it was illegal to vote for your spouse, the affidavit said. *Read more*

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## RabzonKhan

*Cheney: Trump’s Stolen-Election Comments Create Image of U.S. as ‘Failed Nation’*
Zachary Evans 5 hrs ago

Representative Liz Cheney (R., Wyo.) warned that President Trump‘s allegations that Democrats “stole” could give the impression that the U.S. is a “failed nation,” in comments to ABC News on Sunday. 

*Cheney said that Trump’s continued remarks play into assessments by enemies of the U.S., in particular China, that democracy is inferior to an autocratic model.

“To cause that kind of questioning about our process, frankly, it’s the same kinds of things that the Chinese Communist Party says about democracy: that it’s a failed system, that America is a failed nation,” Cheney said. “I won’t be part of that.”*

Cheney was ousted as Republican Conference Chair on Wednesday, after continuing to publicly criticize Trump over his election comments and his apparent refusal to help quell the January 6 riot at the Capitol. The House GOP voted to replace Cheney with Representative Elise Stefanik (R., N.Y.), who received the endorsement of Trump.

“I’m truly honored and humbled to earn the support of my colleagues to serve as House Republican Conference Chair,” Stefanik said in a statement on Friday. “House Republicans are united in our focus to fight on behalf of the American people to save our country from the radical socialist Democrat agenda of President Biden and Nancy Pelosi.”

Cheney commented on Sunday that the decision to replace her with Stefanik was “dangerous.”

“We have to recognize what it means for the nation to have a former president who has not conceded and who continues to suggest that our electoral system cannot function, cannot do the will of the people,” Cheney said.

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 744441
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Cheney: Trump’s Stolen-Election Comments Create Image of U.S. as ‘Failed Nation’*
> Zachary Evans 5 hrs ago
> 
> Representative Liz Cheney (R., Wyo.) warned that President Trump‘s allegations that Democrats “stole” could give the impression that the U.S. is a “failed nation,” in comments to ABC News on Sunday.
> 
> *Cheney said that Trump’s continued remarks play into assessments by enemies of the U.S., in particular China, that democracy is inferior to an autocratic model.
> 
> “To cause that kind of questioning about our process, frankly, it’s the same kinds of things that the Chinese Communist Party says about democracy: that it’s a failed system, that America is a failed nation,” Cheney said. “I won’t be part of that.”*
> 
> Cheney was ousted as Republican Conference Chair on Wednesday, after continuing to publicly criticize Trump over his election comments and his apparent refusal to help quell the January 6 riot at the Capitol. The House GOP voted to replace Cheney with Representative Elise Stefanik (R., N.Y.), who received the endorsement of Trump.
> 
> “I’m truly honored and humbled to earn the support of my colleagues to serve as House Republican Conference Chair,” Stefanik said in a statement on Friday. “House Republicans are united in our focus to fight on behalf of the American people to save our country from the radical socialist Democrat agenda of President Biden and Nancy Pelosi.”
> 
> Cheney commented on Sunday that the decision to replace her with Stefanik was “dangerous.”
> 
> “We have to recognize what it means for the nation to have a former president who has not conceded and who continues to suggest that our electoral system cannot function, cannot do the will of the people,” Cheney said.



I'll tell ya, good for her to show some real decent moral values and hold on to them no matter the cost. She knew she would be outcast and removed from her position yet she didn't succumb to the party pressure to push for the Orangutan's leadership of the RP. She deserves a lot of credit.

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> Talk about voter fraud. This freaking scumbag murdered his wife and used her mail-in ballot to fraudulently vote for a con man. Important point, he was charged for voter fraud, shows that our election system is not some joke, as Trump and his supporters will want people to believe.



One of the reasons why I oppose mail-in ballots. In fact, the whole US election system is broken, from top to bottom, and needs to be reformed.

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## RabzonKhan

*Biden test drives Ford’s new electric F-150*








*VIRAL MOMENT: Fox News reporter asks Biden about existence of UFO*.

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> I'll tell ya, good for her to show some real decent moral values and hold on to them no matter the cost. She knew she would be outcast and removed from her position yet she didn't succumb to the party pressure to push for the Orangutan's leadership of the RP. She deserves a lot of credit.


I never thought I will agree and support Cheney. I don’t agree with most of her political agenda, or her voting record. But who in their right mind can disagree with her for saying: “Today we face a threat America has never seen before. A former president, who provoked a violent attack on this Capitol in an effort to steal the election, has resumed his aggressive effort to convince Americans that the election was stolen from him. He risks inciting further violence.”

“To remain silent, is to embolden the liar. We mustn’t stand by as Trump undermines our democracy, and in the face of claims by China, Russia and other authoritarian regimes around the world, we must speak the truth by letting the world know our election was not stolen, and America has not failed.”


cloud4000 said:


> One of the reasons why I oppose mail-in ballots. In fact, the whole US election system is broken, from top to bottom, and needs to be reformed.


I’m blessed that I live in Washington one of the three states that is all-mail state. I think it is one of the most convenient way of voting, I mean who wants to stand for 2 to 10 hours in line to cast vote. Many studies have shown that vote by mail and in person fraud is rare in the United States. But I agree there is always room for improvement.


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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> “To remain silent, is to embolden the liar. We mustn’t stand by as Trump undermines our democracy, and in the face of claims by China, Russia and other authoritarian regimes around the world, we must speak the truth by letting the world know our election was not stolen, and America has not failed.”



You know that Lyndon Johnson actually claimed the same crap when he lost his first election to the senate by votes of dead people. Amazing how history almost always repeats itself. And he was one of the rare southern Democrats.

But at least he actually did A LOT for civil rights and many other things like Medicare and Social Security if I'm not mistaken after Kennedy's assassination. If you don't believe in any of the conspiracies that he might've been involved in it.

I actually just saw the movie lol! It's great if you like political history. It's on HBO I believe.

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> You know that Lyndon Johnson actually claimed the same crap when he lost his first election to the senate by votes of dead people. Amazing how history almost always repeats itself. And he was one of the rare southern Democrats.
> 
> But at least he actually did A LOT for civil rights and many other things like Medicare and Social Security if I'm not mistaken after Kennedy's assassination. If you don't believe in any of the conspiracies that he might've been involved in it.
> 
> I actually just saw the movie lol! It's great if you like political history. It's on HBO I believe.


I have to watch it, in fact thanks for reminding me, few years ago one of my friends watched it and he told me about it. 

FDR’s New Deal and Lyndon Johnson’s A Great Society created one of the best programs for the underprivileged and the retirees. Social Security Administration (SSA) was actually part of FDR’s New Deal, on the other hand, Medicare and Medicaid were Lyndon Johnson’s A Great Society’s best programs.

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

*Trump blog page shuts down for good  *
PUBLISHED WED, JUN 2 2021


Former President Donald Trump’s blog — a webpage where he shared statements after larger social media companies banned him from their platforms — has been permanently shut down, his spokesman said Wednesday.

The page “From the Desk of Donald J. Trump” has been scrubbed from Trump’s website after going live less than a month earlier.

It “will not be returning,” his senior aide Jason Miller told CNBC.

“It was just auxiliary to the broader efforts we have and are working on,” Miller said via email. *Read more*


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## Hamartia Antidote

Beidou2020 said:


> 48 hours until US descends into civil war.



Still waiting...

This anarchy mindset of the Chinese is why the CCP needs to keep strict control over what the population is exposed to.

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## RabzonKhan

*G7 backs Biden's sweeping overhaul of global tax system*

By Tara John and Kevin Liptak, CNN Business June 5, 2021

London (CNN)Group of Seven finance ministers gathering in London agreed Saturday to back a global minimum tax of at least 15% on multinational companies. The G7 group also agreed that the biggest companies should pay tax where they generate sales, and not just where they have a physical presence.

UK finance minister Rishi Sunak announced the agreement in a video posted on Twitter Saturday, saying G7 finance ministers -- hailing from Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the UK and the US -- had "reached a historic agreement to reform the global tax system to make it fit for the global digital age and, crucially, to make sure that it's fair so that the right companies pay the right tax in the right places."

The agreement was made during a G7 meeting of finance ministers in London, attended by US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, where she sought backing for the administration's efforts to rewrite international tax rules and discourage American companies from booking earnings abroad.
Yellen said Saturday that the agreement was a "significant, unprecedented commitment," from the world's richest economies aimed at preventing companies from avoiding taxes by shifting profits overseas.

"The G7 Finance Ministers have made a significant, unprecedented commitment today that provides tremendous momentum towards achieving a robust global minimum tax at a rate of at least 15%," Yellen wrote in the statement.

*"That global minimum tax would end the race-to-the-bottom in corporate taxation, and ensure fairness for the middle class and working people in the U.S. and around the world," she said, adding that the tax would also level "the playing field for businesses and encouraging countries to compete on positive bases, such as educating and training our work forces and investing in research and development and infrastructure." *

Tech giants such as Apple, Facebook and Google might be affected by the agreement. Foreign governments have long complained that large digital companies should pay them more in taxes. Some have recently passed taxes specifically targeting revenue generated by such companies, including those based in the US such as Facebook, Google and Amazon.

*Nick Clegg, Facebook's vice president for global affairs, said in a statement the company had "long called for reform of the global tax rules and we welcome the important progress made at the G7."*

"We want the international tax reform process to succeed and recognize this could mean Facebook paying more tax, and in different places," Clegg added.
Google said it strongly supported the work done to update international tax rules, and hopes "countries continue to work together to ensure a balanced and durable agreement will be finalized soon," Google spokesperson, José Castañeda, said in a statement to CNN.

*And a spokeperson for Amazon said that "we believe an OECD-led process that creates a multilateral solution will help bring stability to the international tax system. The agreement by the G7 marks a welcome step forward in the effort to achieve this goal.* We hope to see discussions continue to advance with the broader G20 and Inclusive Framework alliance."

*Building consensus*

*The agreement marks a significant win for the Biden administration ahead of next week's G7 leaders summit in Cornwall, demonstrating an initial ability to build consensus among the group.*

Led by Yellen, the US had been pushing very hard for such an agreement ahead of the G7. While this is separate from a US corporate minimum tax of 15% that Biden has proposed as part of ongoing infrastructure negotiations, officials do view it as a critical element of his broader tax agenda.

*Biden's plan to pay for at least $1.4 billion in new infrastructure spending hinges in large part on garnering backing for a global minimum tax on corporations that increases payments to the Treasury.

Establishing a minimum rate could help discourage companies from shifting their profits to countries where they would pay less tax.
Saturday's agreement could help accelerate parallel tax negotiations among roughly 140 countries that are being led by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).

OECD Secretary General Mathias Cormann welcomed Saturday's announcement, calling it a "landmark step toward the global consensus necessary to reform the international tax system."* He added in the statement that the decision added "important momentum" to the upcoming parallel tax negotiations.

Ireland, which has successfully recruited global companies -- including big US tech firms -- by offering a corporate tax rate of just 12.5%, is one country that has expressed significant reservations over the Biden proposal.

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## RabzonKhan

*Trump's North Carolina Speech In 70 Seconds*

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## RabzonKhan

*The global image of US has vastly improved under Biden from all-time low ratings under Trump, according to the Pew Center.*

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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> US Presidential Elections 2016 News and Views



Is it time to open a new thread for 2020-2024?


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## RabzonKhan

VCheng said:


> Is it time to open a new thread for 2020-2024?


I think it should be renamed US Politics.

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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

*Biden Signs Juneteenth Bill, Saying ‘All Americans Can Feel the Power of This Day’*
Last Updated
June 19, 2021, 

*President Biden on Thursday signed legislation to make Juneteenth a federal holiday, the day after the House voted overwhelmingly to enshrine June 19 as the national day to commemorate the end of slavery in the United States.

The Senate rushed the measure through with no debate earlier this week after clearing away a longstanding Republican objection, and the House approved it on Wednesday by a vote of 415 to 14, with 14 Republicans opposed. Mr. Biden said signing the law was one of the greatest honors he will have as president. *Ms. Harris also signed the legislation in her capacity as President of the Senate, an administration official said.

“Throughout history, Juneteenth has been known by many names: Jubilee Day, Freedom Day, Liberation Day, Emancipation Day and, today, a national holiday,” Ms. Harris said at a White House ceremonial bill signing. National holidays, Ms. Harris said, “are days when we as a nation have decided to stop and take stock, and often to acknowledge our history.”

Mr. Biden called it “a day of, in my view, profound weight and profound power,” noting it was the first new national holiday established since Martin Luther King Day in 1983. By making it a federal holiday, Mr. Biden said, “all Americans can feel the power of this day, and learn from our history, and celebrate progress and grapple with the distance we’ve come but the distance we have to travel.”

The law goes into effect immediately, making Friday the first federal Juneteenth holiday in American history. The federal Office of Personnel Management announced on Thursday that most federal employees would observe it on Friday, since June 19 falls on a Saturday this year.

*Juneteenth commemorates the end of slavery**. Its name stems from June 19, 1865, when Maj. Gen. Gordon Granger in Galveston, Texas, issued General Order No. 3, which announced that in accordance with the Emancipation Proclamation, “all slaves are free.” Months later, the 13th Amendment was ratified, abolishing slavery in the final three border states that had not been subjected to President Abraham Lincoln’s order.*

Mr. Biden singled out Opal Lee, an activist who at the age of 89 walked from her home in Fort Worth to Washington, in an effort to get Juneteenth named a national holiday. The president called her “a grandmother of the movement to make Juneteenth a federal holiday.”

*He also framed the holiday as part of his administration’s efforts to address racial equity throughout the federal government.

“The promise of equality is not going to be fulfilled until we become real, it becomes real in our schools and on our main streets and in our neighborhoods,” he said. He pressed Americans to celebrate the new holiday as a day “of action on many fronts.”*


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## RabzonKhan

*Let's talk about the reaction to Juneteenth.**...*









*Watch Candace Owens, Charlie Kirk, & Tucker Carlson FREAK OUT Over Juneteenth Federal Holiday!*


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## RabzonKhan

Former Vice President Mike Pence is brutally booed and heckled as a "traitor" in front of a conservative crowd at a Faith and Freedom Coalition event by Trumpists.

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## RabzonKhan

*LIVE: Biden Says He Has Infrastructure Deal With Bipartisan Group of Senators | Top News*

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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> Former Vice President Mike Pence is brutally booed and heckled as a "traitor" in front of a conservative crowd at a Faith and Freedom Coalition event by Trumpists.



lol, Julianni just got his Lawyer's license suspended by the City of New York Bar association or something like that because of his involvement with the orange gaboon and especially for peddling the falsehoods of a fraudulent election. Lawyers are held to a much higher standard as far as their conduct and he just lost his mind once the gaboon took him as a legal adviser. Some of the crap he was spouting on TV and the Trump Network ooops, I mean FOX lol was like listening to an old man with early or mid-stage dementia and Alzheimer's and some other unknown disease. He was going off the hook. That whole election thing was just way over the top and scary how many delusional people in high positions are convinced of such lies.

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## RabzonKhan

Gomig-21 said:


> Some of the crap he was spouting on TV and the Trump Network ooops, I mean FOX lol was like listening to an old man with early or mid-stage dementia and Alzheimer's and some other unknown disease.


Along with Eyeballs Popping-- Boot Polish Dripping pictures. 



















And you know, another BS Michigan’s Republican election investigation uncovered no evidence of fraud.

According to the report: "Our clear finding is that citizens should be confident the results represent the true results of the ballots cast by the people of Michigan." The report, which was released Wednesday, concludes there is no proof of dead voters or “fractional voting,” no evidence of a fraudulent “ballot dump” in Detroit and no proof any Michigan precincts had more than 100 percent voter turnout. *Source*

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## RabzonKhan

*Former attorney general describes break with Trump on election fraud*
"It was all bulls---," William Barr told The Atlantic.

*William Barr said he believed it was his obligation to publicly state that there was no evidence of voter fraud in 2020 no matter how angry it made then-President Donald Trump, the former attorney general is quoted as saying in an article published in The Atlantic.

“My attitude was: It was put-up or shut-up time,” Barr **told Jonathan Karl in the article headlined "William Barr Speaks."*

*Barr added: “If there was evidence of fraud, I had no motive to suppress it. But my suspicion all the way along was that there was nothing there. It was all bulls---.” *

The former attorney general told Karl that he knew Trump would push him to conduct investigations and confirm the president's frequently stated belief that the 2020 presidential election had been stolen from him — and that Barr suspected from the get-go that no widespread fraud had taken place.

He also said that Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell — understandably concerned about upcoming Senate runoffs in Georgia — encouraged him to speak out about the integrity of the election.

Barr's conclusion that there was no widespread fraud, which he shared with an Associated Press reporter at the start of December, drew the wrath of Trump, who spoke of himself in the third person.
“You must hate Trump. You must hate Trump," Barr quoted Trump as saying in a subsequent meeting.

Karl wrote: "Barr thought that the president was trying to control himself, but he seemed angrier than he had ever seen him."

*Barr said he also told Trump that the president had undermined his own efforts by launching a scattershot, incoherent legal team ("a clown show") to challenge election results — something which he said Trump did not disagree with.*

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

Trump organization charged with fraud and tax crimes.

The New York State prosecutors described a 15-year tax scheme, charges include 15 felony counts, including a scheme to defraud, grand larceny, conspiracy and falsifying business records. They said they have grand jury testimony, bookkeeping records, digital drives, tax records and statement of witnesses.

Trump reminds me of crooked Zardari. His corruption is on a scale unseen in American history. Without any doubt, Trump is hands down the most corrupt president in American history. CFO Allen Weisselberg is the latest in a string of Trump employees who have been charged and convicted for the dirty work they did for and with Trump.

Looks like this time Weisselberg will be the fall guy. All he had to do was cooperate with NY prosecutors and most probably he could have gone free for his involvement. But unfortunately, so far, he has refused to cooperate with the prosecutors. Doesn’t look like it’s going well for him.






*This is very bad news for Donald Trump*
by Jennifer Rodgers 20 hrs ago

For months -- years, even -- legal observers have been waiting for the Manhattan District Attorney's Office to conclude its investigation of Donald J. Trump and his family business with the filing of criminal charges. Finally, the wait is over. But, in part because the indictment does not charge the former President as an individual and partly because many segments of the investigation apparently continue, these charges may raise as many questions as they answer. 

Thursday's charges were brought against Allen Weisselberg, the longtime chief financial officer of the Trump Organization, and against certain corporate components of the company itself, based on what is described as a 15-year scheme to evade taxes on executive and employee compensation. According to the indictment, the Trump Organization provided part of its compensation in the form of rent-free apartments, car leases, cash bonuses and private school tuition, but failed to properly account for this income, and did not pay required federal, state and local taxes on it. Weisselberg, a recipient of these benefits, allegedly also failed to pay personal taxes on this income, as part of the conspiracy.

Weisselberg and the Trump Organization pleaded not guilty to the charges. The Trump Organization further called the prosecution a political ploy, saying Weisselberg was being used as a "pawn in a scorched-earth attempt to harm the former president."

But now that this long-awaited indictment has been unsealed, what does it tell us about these charges and about the possibility of charges for additional crimes and against additional defendants?

*First, the charges are more serious than prior reporting suggested. Stories in the last few days undersold the case by describing it as one about fringe benefits, of the sort rarely prosecuted. While it is true that this is a case about unreported income and the failure to pay taxes on it, its scope is greater than many expected, for a few reasons. The scheme charged is a 15-year conspiracy to evade taxes, described as involving numerous Trump Organization executives and employees, only one of whom has been charged so far.*

The indictment alleges the commission of other crimes in addition to the scheme to defraud in the first degree, namely grand larceny in the second degree -- the second most serious white-collar crime available to state prosecutors in New York -- along with various charges for falsifying records. And District Attorney Cyrus Vance has alleged that defendant Weisselberg not only evaded New York State and New York City taxes, but also evaded federal taxes, increasing the potential tax loss amount significantly. (While state authorities cannot charge the federal crime of evading federal taxes directly under state law, they can use the federal loss amount in charging the intended scope of the scheme to violate state law, as they have done here). All of this means that this is a bigger case, and a bigger headache for Trump and his company, than what was first believed. 

We also know from Thursday's indictment and related proceedings that, as has been previously reported, Weisselberg is not cooperating with the investigation. And, given his central role in the charged scheme and other aspects of the Trump Organization's business that are still reportedly under investigation, he almost certainly still has a chance at a cooperation deal -- and many a defendant has changed his tune when the relatively vague notion of a potential criminal case is replaced by the cold, hard, reality of being arrested, handcuffed, fingerprinted and taken to court. 

But I think that Weisselberg's importance as a cooperator may not be as great as it previously seemed. Particularly given the language in the indictment pointedly describing other participants in the scheme, it appears at least possible, if not likely, that other charges will be forthcoming whether or not Weisselberg cooperates, because prosecutors either have other important witness testimony, or they can make their case using documentary evidence, or a combination of both.

One thing that was not clarified Thursday is whether the other parts of the ongoing investigations will ever result in charges. Vance, the Manhattan district attorney, and New York State Attorney General Letitia James have been investigating bank fraud and tax fraud related to inflating and deflating assets, as well as the hush money payments to adult movie actress Stormy Daniels. The indictment did not shed light on these issues.

*While many unknowns persist, there is certainty on one point: as Trump's strong reaction to these developments demonstrates, Thursday's indictment is very bad news for the former president, with potentially much more bad news to come.*


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## RabzonKhan




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## Gomig-21

RabzonKhan said:


> *This is very bad news for Donald Trump*



BTW, I'm sure you know the delusional 28% of Republican air heads out there (and that is a HUUUGGEAH number of people by the way), and I mean with all their toxic belief and inner woohoo self, that the orange gaboon will be re-instated in August!!! LMAO!!! This is really incredible and actually, Rabzon, VERY SCARY stuff. I'll tell you why.

Early this morning (and I'm sure @Hamartia Antidote has already heard about this as it's big news around here and even on CNN, MSNBS. ABC, CBS etc.) that at 1:30 am this morning, just about 10 miles north of Boston on good ol' I-95, a pair of cars were pulled over the side of the road and one was swapping gas to the other that had run out and a state trooper pulled over behind them to find out if they were ok etc. He ends up doing the old cop routine, checking licenses etc. and in the process finds out that between all the people there, there were guns which we still don't know just yet what types and how massive the amo stock was etc, but as he called in reinforcement and was cuffing a few, others ran into the woods and there was a standoff for several hours. They ended up shutting the highway down, brought in SWATT teams and negotiators etc. until all the culprits gave up without any incident around 10 this morning.

Long story short is that this is a really bizarre event and I'm wondering if there is a connection to what I'm about to say. In Boston, we have one of the biggest 4th of July celebrations in the country as you can imagine with this city being a major part of the country's historical independence and so on.

So we don't know what the heck these 11 people who actually belong to a sovereign group (I forget their name) that is anti government in ways like they don't believe in certain laws and that Americans are more free than what the government imposes on them as so on and so forth, or if they are part of this gaboon conspiracy delusional support system and have plans for violence because of their absolutely ridiculous belief that Orange didn't lose the election? Maybe they have nothing to do with that and are their own thing, but when you listen to those freaks that support that clown, you can't help but think there is a possibility because of what I'm about to mention.

What scares me a bit is this video of the Young Turks and what they're talking about, which goes back to the delusional nitwits supporting the orange gaboon but not only that, the fact that *they think he will be reinstated by mid-August OR ELSE, there will be a rise in the militia and a civil war! * Mind you, 28 percent of Gaboon supporters is not a small number of people and we know how crazily delusional they are to believe in something that doesn't exist in our US democracy where a legitimately elected president can just be replaced looool. It's funny, but at the same time very frightening as we don't know the extent of what will happen after January 6th. If they had the balls to do what they did on that day to the CAPITAL of the United States of America, what will they do when their baboon is not even mentioned in August?! And what were these 11 members of this Sovereign society doing today carrying guns and headed to Boston on the weekend of the 4th of July? Are they connected to this movement that thinks they're going to make changes in the US political system by inciting violence and even taking it a full step further?

Check out this video and tell me you don't think these people are crazy!? And is Senk right about something big coming? That these freaks will take up arms because they are delusionally convinced that the left is not only ruining this country and their freedoms, but that the gaboon actually WON?!?!?

Let me know what you think.

MAGA Warns A "Civil War Is Coming" - YouTube

BTW, that Jeff Tiedrich tweets some great lines.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Gomig-21 said:


> BTW, I'm sure you know the delusional 28% of Republican air heads out there (and that is a HUUUGGEAH number of people by the way), and I mean with all their toxic belief and inner woohoo self, that the orange gaboon will be re-instated in August!!! LMAO!!! This is really incredible and actually, Rabzon, VERY SCARY stuff. I'll tell you why.
> 
> Early this morning (and I'm sure @Hamartia Antidote has already heard about this as it's big news around here and even on CNN, MSNBS. ABC, CBS etc.) that at 1:30 am this morning, just about 10 miles north of Boston on good ol' I-95, a pair of cars were pulled over the side of the road and one was swapping gas to the other that had run out and a state trooper pulled over behind them to find out if they were ok etc. He ends up doing the old cop routine, checking licenses etc. and in the process finds out that between all the people there, there were guns which we still don't know just yet what types and how massive the amo stock was etc, but as he called in reinforcement and was cuffing a few, others ran into the woods and there was a standoff for several hours. They ended up shutting the highway down, brought in SWATT teams and negotiators etc. until all the culprits gave up without any incident around 10 this morning.
> 
> Long story short is that this is a really bizarre event and I'm wondering if there is a connection to what I'm about to say. In Boston, we have one of the biggest 4th of July celebrations in the country as you can imagine with this city being a major part of the country's historical independence and so on.
> 
> So we don't know what the heck these 11 people who actually belong to a sovereign group (I forget their name) that is anti government in ways like they don't believe in certain laws and that Americans are more free than what the government imposes on them as so on and so forth, or if they are part of this gaboon conspiracy delusional support system and have plans for violence because of their absolutely ridiculous belief that Orange didn't lose the election? Maybe they have nothing to do with that and are their own thing, but when you listen to those freaks that support that clown, you can't help but think there is a possibility because of what I'm about to mention.
> 
> What scares me a bit is this video of the Young Turks and what they're talking about, which goes back to the delusional nitwits supporting the orange gaboon but not only that, the fact that *they think he will be reinstated by mid-August OR ELSE, there will be a rise in the militia and a civil war! * Mind you, 28 percent of Gaboon supporters is not a small number of people and we know how crazily delusional they are to believe in something that doesn't exist in our US democracy where a legitimately elected president can just be replaced looool. It's funny, but at the same time very frightening as we don't know the extent of what will happen after January 6th. If they had the balls to do what they did on that day to the CAPITAL of the United States of America, what will they do when their baboon is not even mentioned in August?! And what were these 11 members of this Sovereign society doing today carrying guns and headed to Boston on the weekend of the 4th of July? Are they connected to this movement that thinks they're going to make changes in the US political system by inciting violence and even taking it a full step further?
> 
> Check out this video and tell me you don't think these people are crazy!? And is Senk right about something big coming? That these freaks will take up arms because they are delusionally convinced that the left is not only ruining this country and their freedoms, but that the gaboon actually WON?!?!?
> 
> Let me know what you think.
> 
> MAGA Warns A "Civil War Is Coming" - YouTube
> 
> BTW, that Jeff Tiedrich tweets some great lines.



He's not going to be reinstated and he'll be lucky to still be alive in 2024.

The guys were from out of state probably heading to some kooky prepper meeting in Maine.

Glad the cops called the SWAT. Too bad when they ran into the woods onto somebody's property to escape they didn't get mowed down by another kooky prepper thinking he was being invaded, Would have been the ultimate irony and an excellent Darwin Award story.

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## Gomig-21

Hamartia Antidote said:


> He's not going to be reinstated and he'll be lucky to still be alive in 2024.



It's frightening the way this guy believes in his own lies and worst, the way he rallies his supporters in duping them into thinking and doing what he wants! I'm telling you, we haven't seen the worst out of this guy just yet. It's worrisome, bro.



Hamartia Antidote said:


> The guys were from out of state probably heading to some kooky prepper meeting in Maine.



Were they going north or south? I thought they were coming into the city. I really hope they were just some fringe group and not related to the real quacks with guns and political agendas!



Hamartia Antidote said:


> Glad the cops called the SWAT. Too bad when they ran into the woods onto somebody's property to escape they didn't get mowed down by another kooky prepper thinking he was being invaded, Would have been the ultimate irony and an excellent Darwin Award story.



I'll tell you what, even though I'm not a huge fan of Mass State police, they did a great job here as they deescalated the situation and took all 11 into custody without a single shot being fired. Granted they got a lot of help from Wakefield police and even a few truck haulers got on the highway to block the lanes. But that standoff was 9 hours long.

EDIT: I just saw the clip on CNN of them holding their half Moroccan flag? and some other group in that flag and they're black folks! They were also all dressed in military attire and claimed they weren't antigovernmental! This is crazy lol.

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## KAL-EL

There is no Mechanism for him to be reinstated. Most rational people of course know this.

It’s all about the grift, he just wants to give his cult followers some hope so they keep filling his Coffer

August will come and go, and nothing will happen. Then the my pillow guy will just move the goalposts and name another date For him to be magically reinstated.

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## Gomig-21

Wakefield Standoff Suspects Claim To Be Part Of Group Called ‘Rise Of The Moors’ – CBS Boston (cbslocal.com)


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## Hamartia Antidote

Gomig-21 said:


> EDIT: I just saw the clip on CNN of them holding their half Moroccan flag? and some other group in that flag and they're black folks! They were also all dressed in military attire and claimed they weren't antigovernmental! This is crazy lol.






https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/03/massachusetts-police-standoff/


Mason said the men were wearing camouflage jackets, bulletproof vests and body cameras. They carried long rifles, pistols or a combination, he said. Members of the group told police they were traveling from Rhode Island to Maine for “training.”

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## Gomig-21

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Mason said the men were wearing camouflage jackets, bulletproof vests and body cameras. They carried long rifles, pistols or a combination, he said. Members of the group told police they were traveling from Rhode Island to Maine for “training.”



My first reaction was "what the F is this country coming to." But then I thought that it's actually always had groups like this and there has always been dissention among certain groups of the public despite new groups like BLM and Antifa or whatever they are and QAnon etc. etc., it's just they were never exposed to the world in real time because of the day and age we live in and the information super highway we currently possess. We're much more knowledgeable about everything out there in real time and that's the difference and not necessarily that things are changing. Although I do think that there is a certain percentage of that as well.

I thought they were coming into the city. But good thing they got caught and were going north.


KAL-EL said:


> There is no Mechanism for him to be reinstated. Most rational people of course know this.
> 
> It’s all about the grift, he just wants to give his cult followers some hope so they keep filling his Coffer
> 
> August will come and go, and nothing will happen. Then the my pillow guy will just move the goalposts and name another date For him to be magically reinstated.



Of course there's no mechanism. But that's what's scary, is that these people truly believe that there is, or at least should be! And if not, they're threatening violence. Violence that we have seen the gaboon have no problem instigating and then backtracking for his own good. These people will die for him and I find that the most bizarre form of loyalty ever. Usually dishonest and corrupted lying billionaire gaboons like this donkey are NOT liked! But the race he represents along with certain ideologies appeals to this rather large group. 28% of Republican supporters believe in this August reinstatement, my friend. If they don't get it, they might do something crazier than the January 6th capital insurrection.

Did you hear what that clown said in the first 5 minutes of that video? That doesn't make you think something is terribly wrong, here?

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## Hamartia Antidote

Gomig-21 said:


> My first reaction was "what the F is this country coming to." But then I thought that it's actually always had groups like this and there has always been dissention among certain groups of the public despite new groups like BLM and Antifa or whatever they are and QAnon etc. etc., it's just they were never exposed to the world in real time because of the day and age we live in and the information super highway we currently possess. We're much more knowledgeable about everything out there in real time and that's the difference and not necessarily that things are changing. Although I do think that there is a certain percentage of that as well.
> 
> I thought they were coming into the city. But good thing they got caught and were going north.
> 
> 
> Of course there's no mechanism. But that's what's scary, is that these people truly believe that there is, or at least should be! And if not, they're threatening violence. Violence that we have seen the gaboon have no problem instigating and then backtracking for his own good. These people will die for him and I find that the most bizarre form of loyalty ever. Usually dishonest and corrupted lying billionaire gaboons like this donkey are NOT liked! But the race he represents along with certain ideologies appeals to this rather large group. 28% of Republican supporters believe in this August reinstatement, my friend. If they don't get it, they might do something crazier than the January 6th capital insurrection.
> 
> Did you hear what that clown said in the first 5 minutes of that video? That doesn't make you think something is terribly wrong, here?



Hmm...a bunch of armed black men going to Maine...like the Whitest state in the US with a high prepper count..that's an interesting place to go.

I have a prepper friend up there somewhere. He keeps bouncing between VT,NH, and Maine.

I'd tell my friends that I keep declining invitations to go up there because I don't feel like him challenging me to a "most dangerous game" on his probably house of horrors property.





Yeah, that's Doug

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## Gomig-21

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Hmm...a bunch of armed black men going to Maine...like the Whitest state in the US with a high prepper count..that's an interesting place to go.



Apparently they're part of a group called the ‘Rise Of The Moors’ . There's some affiliation or connection with Morocco, I think, which makes it even more bizarro. One of the dudes held up an all-red flag with a small yellow star in the middle and there was mention of the wester African country somewhere. Strange world we live in, my friend.









Wakefield Standoff Suspects Claim To Be Part Of Group Called 'Rise Of The Moors'


State Police said the group was headed from Rhode Island to Maine for training.




t.co





Hey BTW, the Blue Angels are performing at Boston Harbor on the 10th of July just FYI if you're interested. Been a while since they've come up this way.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Gomig-21 said:


> Apparently they're part of a group called the ‘Rise Of The Moors’ . There's some affiliation or connection with Morocco, I think, which makes it even more bizarro. One of the dudes held up an all-red flag with a small yellow star in the middle and there was mention of the wester African country somewhere. Strange world we live in, my friend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wakefield Standoff Suspects Claim To Be Part Of Group Called 'Rise Of The Moors'
> 
> 
> State Police said the group was headed from Rhode Island to Maine for training.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> t.co
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey BTW, the Blue Angels are performing at Boston Harbor on the 10th of July just FYI if you're interested. Been a while since they've come up this way.



4th July Fireworks above Boston Common this year...not sure why.

My father had an office on Atlantic Ave back in the days when the fireworks were over the harbor. It even had an outside balcony. 

I had a nice harbor view office on State Street but no fireworks to watch as the buildings between the Charles blocked the view.

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## RabzonKhan

*Biden rips Trump's 'big lie' in voting rights address*
BY BRETT SAMUELS ,ALEX GANGITANO AND MARTY JOHNSON - 07/13/21

President Biden on Tuesday decried inflammatory and false claims from former President Trump and his allies about the 2020 election and broader efforts to restrict access to the ballot in a major speech on voting rights.
Biden blasted efforts from Trump and others to sow doubt about the election months after it concluded, which have spurred action from GOP-led state legislatures to push new elections laws that would limit absentee voting and make it more difficult for certain groups to vote.

*“It's clear, for those who challenge the results or question the integrity of the election, no other election has ever been held under such scrutiny or such high standards. The Big Lie is just that, a Big Lie,” Biden said at the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia.

Biden pointed to the dozens of court challenges thrown out by federal judges, including some appointed by Trump. He noted Wisconsin, Arizona and Georgia confirmed his victories in each state through audits and recounts.* Just hours before Biden spoke, Trump issued a statement calling for Pennsylvania to conduct an audit of the 2020 results, in which Biden won the state by roughly 80,000 votes.

*"In America, if you lose, you accept the results,” Biden said in a clear shot at Trump. “You follow the Constitution, you try again. You don't call facts 'fake' and then try to bring down the American experiment just because you're unhappy. That's not statesmanship, that's selfishness."*

The president sought to warn of the perilous consequences of Trump’s rhetoric in a long-awaited speech on voting rights. He delivered remarks as Texas lawmakers fled the state to block passage of a new elections law and as federal voting legislation has hit a brick wall in Congress.

Texas is one of several states that have introduced restrictive new voting laws following the 2020 election. Georgia, Florida, Arizona and other GOP-led states have pushed for changes to their elections laws.

*“The 21st Century Jim Crow assault is real, it’s unrelenting, and we’re going to challenge it vigorously. While this broad assault against voting rights is not unprecedented, it is taking on new and pernicious forms,” Biden said.*

Biden described the ongoing attacks on election integrity from Trump and others, paired with state-level laws tightening ballot access, as an existential threat to democracy.

“We’re facing the most significant test of our democracy since the Civil War,” Biden said. “I’m not saying this to alarm you, I’m saying this because you should be alarmed.”

In his remarks, Biden did not announce a new position on the Senate filibuster, which many progressives have said should be scrapped or altered in order to pass voting rights legislation like the For the People Act, a sweeping Democratic bill that would overhaul federal election laws.

Instead, Biden sought to project a sense of urgency around the need for voting rights protections. He raised his voice as he spoke of the legacy of the late Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), the civil rights icon whose name is attached to a voting rights bill stalled in Congress.

*“Last month, Republicans opposed even debating, even considering the For The People Act. Senate Democrats stood united to protect our democracy and the sanctity of the vote. We must pass the For The People Act, it’s a national imperative,” Biden said.*

Republicans vehemently oppose the For the People Act, calling it a blatant power grab by Democrats. The wide-reaching bill would mandate a federal threshold for certain voting rights, such as universal by-mail voting, early voting and same-day voter registration. It also addresses gerrymandering and campaign finance reform.

Biden on Tuesday urged Republicans to support voting rights legislation. *Read more*

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## RabzonKhan

*An attack on the U.S. Capitol is an act of terrorism, whether the attackers are foreign or domestic! *

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## RabzonKhan

Throughout the 2020 presidential election, Trump repeatedly claimed the stock market would crash if Biden won. 







Stock market from November 6, 2021 (Biden declared winner by AP) to July 27, 2021.

*S&P 500:*

3509.44 (Nov 6)

4401.46 (July 27)


*Dow Jones:*

28323.40

35058.52


*NASDAQ:*

11895.23

14660.58

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## RabzonKhan

*Trump takes two punches from GOP*
BY MAX GREENWOOD AND BRETT SAMUELS - 07/30/21 

It's been a tough week for former President Trump.

*Trump's preferred candidate in a special House election in Texas lost on Tuesday to another Republican who was likely boosted by some protest votes against the former president. And on Wednesday, 17 Senate Republicans voted to advance a bipartisan infrastructure deal that Trump spent weeks railing against.

While Trump remains a towering figure in the GOP, the back-to-back blows have led some to question whether his influence may have started to wane since he left office.* 

*“Trump has not had a big win in quite a while,” Alex Conant, a Republican strategist, said. “I think without wins, his political capital is depleted.”

“Donald Trump does not have a post-presidential strategy,” he added. “He is overexposed at the same time that he’s not getting enough attention. He’s giving lots of speeches and traveling the country, but other than his narrow base no one’s really paying attention and I think that limits his influence.”*

Trump received a blow to his endorsing power this week when Susan Wright, his candidate of choice in a runoff election for Texas’s 6th Congressional District, lost to fellow Republican Jake Ellzey.

One former Trump adviser dismissed the idea that Wright’s loss on Tuesday and the Senate’s infrastructure vote had dealt a blow to the former president’s influence over the GOP, blaming the upsets on Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and the conservative Club for Growth, which had encouraged Trump to endorse Wright.

“It’s absurd to think that you can take anything away from the Texas race or the Senate vote,” the adviser said. “There are a million issues at play here and it’s got nothing to do with President Trump.”

Trump himself disputed Wright’s defeat will damage his reputation in primaries, arguing the GOP won the race regardless. 

One former Trump White House official similarly downplayed the long-term significance of Wright’s defeat, but acknowledged Trump must be careful in rushing to endorse candidates. The official said some allies have pushed the former president to endorse early in competitive contests like the Ohio Senate race but that doing so could backfire.

Some Republicans are already worried that could be the case in Georgia, where Trump has thrown his weight behind former NFL player Herschel Walker.

Others have expressed similar concerns in North Carolina, where Trump has endorsed Rep. Ted Budd in a hotly contested GOP Senate primary. Budd is up against two high-profile challengers, including former Gov. Pat McCrory, who has a better fundraising record than Budd — and a track record of winning statewide.

Trump’s grip over House Republicans remains solid, those close to the former president say. House GOP members regularly travel to meet Trump at his properties in Florida and New Jersey, and the caucus has largely purged itself of Trump critics.

But the same cannot be said about the Senate, where Republicans appear more willing to move on from the former president.

A Wednesday vote by the Senate to advance a sweeping infrastructure package only served to deepen questions about Trump’s influence. The former president had lobbied against the deal for weeks, issuing half-a-dozen statements urging Republicans to abandon negotiations with Democrats.

*It wasn’t just Trump’s Republican detractors who broke with him on the infrastructure deal. Among the 17 Republicans who voted to take up debate on the proposal were some of his most ardent allies, including Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Kevin Cramer (R-N.D.). Several GOP incumbents facing reelection next year also voted to advance the proposal.

The Wednesday infrastructure vote was also seen as a major win for President Biden, bringing him one step closer to fulfilling a crucial piece of his agenda. That in itself is a knock against Trump, who has openly teased he may run for president in 2024.

Cramer told reporters on Thursday that Trump’s frustration may stem from his inability to get a similar agreement during his four years in office. Asked what effect Trump’s efforts to derail the deal seems to have had, Cramer indicated it didn’t move the needle much.*

“I think it’s on the minds of some people, particularly people in cycle thinking about primaries, I suppose,” said Cramer, who is up for reelection in 2024. “But this is one where I think people know intuitively and by research that the American public, including the majority of Republicans, really do support a reasonable, robust infrastructure package.”

Conant, the Republican strategist, noted that Trump’s opposition to the infrastructure deal may carry more water in the House, where loyalty to the former president runs deeper among GOP members.

“Trump spends so much time attacking Senate Republicans, we shouldn’t be surprised when they ignore him on big votes. Why would Mitch McConnell, who Trump belittles on a weekly basis, care what Trump says about anything?” Conant said. “The House is slightly different. A lot more of those members are a lot more loyal to Trump, but they’re also the minority, so they have less influence.” 

Trump lashed out at Senate Republicans on Thursday morning, blaming McConnell and so-called RINOs — Republicans in name only — for capitulating to Democrats and costing the GOP closely watched elections in Arizona and Georgia.

He also urged Republicans to back away from the bipartisan infrastructure package, saying that “no deal is better than a bad deal.”

“Fight for America, not for special interests and Radical Democrats,” Trump said in a statement. “RINOs are ruining America, right alongside Communist Democrats.”

Trump had endorsed a $2 trillion infrastructure bill with Democratic leaders in 2019, then revived the idea in 2020. But he called off talks the first time around, and no such bill ever materialized last year amid the pandemic.

*“Infrastructure week” became a recurring punch line during the Trump presidency as lawmakers and administration officials frequently discussed hopes for a deal, only to see it fall through or overshadowed by the latest controversy.*

Since leaving office in January, Trump has been fixated on maintaining his hold on the GOP. His ability to do so will prove important not only for his legacy, but also for his political future. He has repeatedly floated a potential 2024 presidential campaign and maintaining the loyalty of Republicans will play a critical role in securing the party’s nomination yet again. *Read more*

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## RabzonKhan

Breaking news from the New York Times, which has uncovered never-before-seen documents linking Donald Trump to a conspiracy with Republican lawmakers to pressure the Department of Justice to “declare the election results corrupt.”

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## gambit

RabzonKhan said:


> Breaking news from the New York Times, which has uncovered never-before-seen documents linking Donald Trump to a conspiracy with Republican lawmakers to pressure the Department of Justice to “declare the election results corrupt.”


I would be careful in taking this seriously.

Last yr, WaPo had a full page spread on how the Trump Organization *'MAY'* have been involved in an Indonesian hotel partnership where graves were exhumed/moved to make room for the hotel. Everybody got worked up. Graves exhumed? Bump is ended.

I read the WaPo article twice. Am old fashioned. Had the actual paper newspaper in hand. Read it twice and there was nothing that says either Clump or his organization *DIRECTLY* involved in some ways in the exhumations of those graves. All that the Trump Organization had was a branding partnership. But WaPo did a full page spread. The insinuation was there but the evidence? Real actual evidence that would stand in the court of law? None.

I do not like Chump, but I always try to be fair when it comes to charges of any kind, even outside the court of law. It was that WaPo article that finally convinced me that the American media is truly 'out' for Bump. Irrationally. When you have something as morally offensive as grave desecration, in a Muslim dominated country, and for financial gains, get your facts straight. The Trump Organization was not exactly 'exonerated'. The accusers simply let the issue fizzle out. The moral smear was what they wanted.


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## Gomig-21

gambit said:


> Had the actual paper newspaper in hand. Read it twice and there was nothing that says either Clump or his organization *DIRECTLY* involved in some ways in the exhumations of those graves.



"Clump" haha. He's always had that uncanny ability to have someone else be the fall guy and never have it be him, no matter how solid the evidence is. Example is the Hollywood tapes with his voice saying what he said about grabbing women by their privates and yet he has millions of women who support him and who couldn't care less about that. Having that influential ability is frightening! 

So if by accident or on purpose he surrounds himself with those who will take the fall and not him as well as have that influence to manipulate millions of people to blindly follow him, even to the capital and destroy their lives is scary beyond belief. 

My friend of close to 35 years whom I thought I knew pretty well just had a huge argument with me the other day because he actually believes the elections were rigged! I was astonished since I've known him for a long time and he's a very bright individual and to see and hear him think that was mind boggling and scared the hell out of me. I never would've thought that he would think such a crazy thing like that.

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## RabzonKhan

President Joe Biden and his wife Jill went for a bike ride at a Delaware state park to celebrate the First Lady's 70th birthday.

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## RabzonKhan

Today is August 13. Some Trump MAGA idiot supporters believe that he will be reinstated today--- while others believe that he can’t be reinstated because he has been president this whole time. 








*Was Donald Trump Reinstated as President Today?*

*It’s August 13, and you know what that means: Mike Lindell and his legion of MAGA die-hards are waiting for the former president to take back the White House. There’s still time!

*Friday was supposed to be a big day. “The morning of August 13 it’ll be the talk of the world,” Mike Lindell, the MyPillow impresario and purveyor of discredited conspiracy theories about a stolen presidential election, warned during a recent appearance on a conservative podcast. Lindell, who is being sued for billions in damages by Dominion, a maker of voting machines that the right-wing bedding entrepreneur has called fraudulent, promised a day of reckoning, when the “Communists” would be kicked out of power and Donald Trump would rightly reassume his place in the Oval Office. *Trump, himself no stranger to barely intelligible theories of political change, was reportedly a believer, telling underlings that he would somehow be reinstated as president in August.

The day isn’t over yet, of course, but none of this has yet come to pass, and I feel fairly confident that it won’t. Instead, Lindell is once again left looking like a fool—that is, except in the eyes of MAGA die-hards, Q followers, credulous right-wing news hosts, and other fellow travelers who, ensconced in filter bubbles, have managed to finger-paint their own reality in which a series of ever-shifting prophecies will one day, somehow, lead to Trump’s restoration and the deaths of their enemies.*

(This isn’t that unusual: The date the world is supposed to end has changed a lot over the years.) Despite the obvious absurdity of these beliefs, and despite content crackdowns on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube, Q-style paranoid fantasies persist. It’s difficult to call the movement monolithic, given its fractured and proliferating narratives, but it’s clear that no amount of fact-checking or adversarial media coverage can break these people out of their epistemic prisons. This movement, this paradigm of wild and even violent political prophecy, is here to stay. Trump may be its worshipped figurehead, but for now, Lindell is its lead missionary—a born-again, bumbling millionaire salesman, his success as unlikely, and as indelibly American, as his confused political rantings. There seems little doubt that Lindell will continue to spread this deranged gospel for as long as he can—until, perhaps, Dominion’s lawyers seize his phone from his hands. *Read more*

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## RabzonKhan

*WATCH LIVE: Biden speaks about Afghanistan collapse*






Biden: "It is wrong to order American troops to step up when Afghanistan’s own armed forces would not."

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## truthfollower



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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> *WATCH LIVE: Biden speaks about Afghanistan collapse*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biden: "It is wrong to order American troops to step up when Afghanistan’s own armed forces would not."



Biden is right here. The ANA didn’t even resist for a single moment.They had twenty years to create institutions like a government or an army. They failed on both accounts.

No point helping someone who can’t help themselves.

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## -=virus=-

LIVE: President Donald J Trump in Cullman, AL


SATURDAY AT 8:00PM EDT President Donald J. Trump Delivers Remarks in Cullman, Alabama TEXT TRUMP TO 88022




rumble.com


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## RabzonKhan

President Biden addresses deadly attack in Kabul.

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## gambit

I feel sorry for Joe Biden. Am not saying that casually. Two weekends ago, I talked to a neighbor. She is a retired nurse and for the last two yrs of her career, she chose elder care, and said she is a Democrat. She said Biden have all the small signs of someone in early mental decline even before he chose to run for president.

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## Gomig-21

gambit said:


> I feel sorry for Joe Biden. Am not saying that casually. Two weekends ago, I talked to a neighbor. She is a retired nurse and for the last two yrs of her career, she chose elder care, and said she is a Democrat. She said Biden have all the small signs of someone in early mental decline even before he chose to run for president.



I told @RabzonKhan this about 10 pages ago but I used the old line that most Trump supporters use and that is the lack of cognitive ability which is clearly declining with age and probably speeding up with something else he might have such as the onset of dementia or something along those lines. My friend did not appreciate it because he only thought I was touting the same line as the Dump supporters, but as an individual who supports Joe and Kamala's ticket, I used that terminology because it actually fits perfectly. This is NOT the Joe Biden from even the early Obama presidency years and certainly not that of earlier times that that and now he's president?!?!? Even Reagan at a much riper age was much more on top of it than what we're seeing from Biden. This is a major problem, my friend.

What is your opinion, Rabzonkhan?

At the time, we didn't care because the system is set up for the next in line to take control should anything happen to him God forbid and that would be the good looking Kamala Harris which I wouldn't have a problem with at all. I think she would sent 20,000 troops into Afghanistan after the drones target the ever living daylights out of this newly formed ISIS-K? What is K, Kabul? lol. But they need to be eradicated immediately and yes, I'm with you, Gambit. He might not make his full term and we didn't care about his problem even though we knew about it back then because we just wanted the orange baboon out of there at ANY COST and it worked. Now he screwed up the evacuation BIG TIME and has been labeled Saigon John by many here as well as many around the world and deserves it for what has happened. So Kamala needs to take over the reigns as soon as possible and Joe needs to sit and watch because he's getting worst and worst and I do feel bad for him. 3+ more years of this will destroy him and I pray God helps him get out of the mess he's in, politically but especially physically.


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## cloud4000

gambit said:


> I feel sorry for Joe Biden. Am not saying that casually. Two weekends ago, I talked to a neighbor. She is a retired nurse and for the last two yrs of her career, she chose elder care, and said she is a Democrat. She said Biden have all the small signs of someone in early mental decline even before he chose to run for president.



It's going to be an interesting mid-term election. It's going to be an interesting 2024 election as well.


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## gambit

Gomig-21 said:


> I told @RabzonKhan this about 10 pages ago but I used the old line that most Trump supporters use and that is the lack of cognitive ability which is clearly declining with age and probably speeding up with something else he might have such as the onset of dementia or something along those lines. My friend did not appreciate it because he only thought I was touting the same line as the Dump supporters, but as an individual who supports Joe and Kamala's ticket, I used that terminology because it actually fits perfectly. This is NOT the Joe Biden from even the early Obama presidency years and certainly not that of earlier times that that and now he's president?!?!? Even Reagan at a much riper age was much more on top of it than what we're seeing from Biden. This is a major problem, my friend.


I said Biden 'chose' to run for president, but I misspoke.

I said on this forum before that Biden wanted out of participatory politics. He wanted the easy, and financially profitable, life of being the 'elder statesman' of US politics on the news and speaking circuit, like the Clintons and the Obamas. Biden wanted to advocate policies without living their out consequences. But the Democraps have no one else palatable enough to run against Frump so it is the Democraps who actually chose Biden to run for president. In my opinion, Biden was not mentally strong enough to refuse. He probably was sentient enough to know what he wanted, which was out, but also was too weak willed due to mental decline, to say no. And now, the US is suffering the consequences.

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## cloud4000

gambit said:


> I said Biden 'chose' to run for president, but I misspoke.
> 
> I said on this forum before that Biden wanted out of participatory politics. He wanted the easy, and financially profitable, life of being the 'elder statesman' of US politics on the news and speaking circuit, like the Clintons and the Obamas. Biden wanted to advocate policies without living their out consequences. But the Democraps have no one else palatable enough to run against Frump so it is the Democraps who actually chose Biden to run for president. In my opinion, *Biden was not mentally strong enough to refuse. He probably was sentient enough to know what he wanted, which was out, but also was too weak willed due to mental decline, to say no. And now, the US is suffering the consequences.*



Interesting, I wonder if though he would win the primary. In the beginning, Biden looked like he had no chance. Elizabeth Warren was leading for a while but scared a lot of people away with her socialist ideas. Nobody wanted Bernie Sanders either. Biden became the safe choice. Remember the whole campaign was about getting rid of Trump, not about ideas or policies.

Now the Democrats are in a pickle about what to do.

I would like to say some things about the US withdrawal from Afghanistan:


The US withdrawal from Afghanistan was the right thing to do. Whatever you may think of Trump, it was the best decision he ever made as POTUS, in my honest opinion. He knew that war was unwinnable, that the Afghan government was useless, and the ANA even more so.
Credit to Biden for sticking to the withdrawal. Yes, he handled the evacuation rather poorly, and this is on him.
Will the fall of Afghanistan impact the Democrats in the mid-term elections. A little. I think other issues like CRT and Democrats' leftist policies could lead the Republicans to control one of the two houses. This is just my theory.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Beidou2020 said:


> 48 hours until US descends into civil war.



Still waiting

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## FuturePAF

If you live in the 3rd NY congressional district, just a heads up for this candidate that says she is a proud “Indian Kashmiri”. Do your own research and decide for yourself; Just so everyone knows who’s on the ballot.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1485461874376388612


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## RabzonKhan

President Joe Biden delivers 2022 State of the Union address​

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## RabzonKhan




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## CrazyZ

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 820934


This is exaggerated by the pandemic shutdown of the economy.


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## American College Student

Nope Biden is a fool. The economy is still weakened from COVID and hasn't improved from pandemic height levels. His approval levels haven't recovered from Afghanistan and his blunders emboldened Putin. Biden has shown no interest in either rearmament or either revising or adapting to the changing international conditions in the world. The Biden liberals seem obsessed with pretending and trying to return conditions as much as possible back to the Clinton 1990s years. They are still obsessed with the globalist/liberal idea of a borderless world.


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## nahtanbob

American College Student said:


> Nope Biden is a fool. The economy is still weakened from COVID and hasn't improved from pandemic height levels. His approval levels haven't recovered from Afghanistan and his blunders emboldened Putin. Biden has shown no interest in either rearmament or either revising or adapting to the changing international conditions in the world. The Biden liberals seem obsessed with pretending and trying to return conditions as much as possible back to the Clinton 1990s years. They are still obsessed with the globalist/liberal idea of a borderless world.



it may be true. He has putin right in a quagmire in Ukraine


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## Hamartia Antidote

Beidou2020 said:


> 48 hours until US descends into civil war.



Still waiting


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## Hamartia Antidote

Beidou2020 said:


> 48 hours until US descends into civil war.



Still waiting

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## Gomig-21

Will be super interesting to see what happens in Wyoming with Liz Cheney (daughter of psycho Dick Cheney but she's nowhere near as psychotic as that irresponsible, unsafe hunting grim reaper) and to see how many Democrats show up to support her despite obviously being a republican. But her opponent is also a republican so that issue is inevitable for the democrats in that state, but her work on the Jan 6th committee as well as voting to impeach Trump of both occasions of his impeachment is endearing to the democrats to perhaps come out and vote for her and keep her opponent who's a diehard Trump supporter out of that senate seat. So that one should be really interesting to watch what happens.

The other one is obviously Alaska and Lisa Murkowski who pretty much follows the same patterns as Cheney does as a Republican and if that twisted freakazoid Sarah Palin is in the run for a vacant seat in Alaska, that clown from the past days of craziness in the John McCaine campaign against Obama. These are just the new remnants of the orange leftover politics who will be calling the FBI seizure of alleged classified material from Marala go a raid while in the same disgusting tongue equating the FBI, Attorney General and the entire Department of Justice to the Gestapo because of that is just insane. These people are really out of control! Things are really going to be interesting starting with tonight. 

Oh, incase anyone missed it, that complete idiot Margerie Taylor Green was giving a speech somewhere in a small room of people (I think it was in Arizona) because she started out by saying how great it is to have air conditioning, then she went on to say that turbine & solar energy which the "evil" democrats support will be the cause of having electricity only during the day LMFAO!!! Honest to goodness I'm not making this up. She really said she doesn't want to lose her air-conditioning and lights when it goes dark thinking that turbine and obviously solar energy only supply energy during light hours loooooool!  These are the Trump remnants.

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## Gomig-21

Here is it OMG! 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558596561461968900

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## RabzonKhan

I Voted! Did You?

@cloud4000 @F-22Raptor @Gomig-21 @gambit @Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL @nahtanbob @VCheng

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## Hamartia Antidote

Nov 2, 2020


Beidou2020 said:


> 48 hours until US descends into civil war.



It's now November 2022. Over two years later.

Still waiting.


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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> I Voted! Did You?
> 
> @cloud4000 @F-22Raptor @Gomig-21 @gambit @Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL @nahtanbob @VCheng



I will do so after work today.

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## nahtanbob

RabzonKhan said:


> I Voted! Did You?
> 
> @cloud4000 @F-22Raptor @Gomig-21 @gambit @Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL @nahtanbob @VCheng
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 894777
> View attachment 894776


not yet :-(


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## KAL-EL

RabzonKhan said:


> I Voted! Did You?
> 
> @cloud4000 @F-22Raptor @Gomig-21 @gambit @Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL @nahtanbob @VCheng
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 894777
> View attachment 894776



Count me In as one of the voted

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## RabzonKhan

nahtanbob said:


> not yet :-(


You still have time, my friend.

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## VCheng

RabzonKhan said:


> I Voted! Did You?



Voted. Default choices between lunatic and jackass candidates.

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## gambit

RabzonKhan said:


> I Voted! Did You?
> 
> @cloud4000 @F-22Raptor @Gomig-21 @gambit @Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL @nahtanbob @VCheng
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 894777
> View attachment 894776


Yes, I vomi...aahh...I mean...voted...

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## cloud4000

RabzonKhan said:


> I Voted! Did You?
> 
> @cloud4000 @F-22Raptor @Gomig-21 @gambit @Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL @nahtanbob @VCheng
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 894777
> View attachment 894776


I voted early in the afternoon. My polling place was across the street so I just walked there. Being Massachusetts, the results will be obviously Democratic.

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## jhungary

Early projection sees Republican not really doing that good where they were hoping. 

It's right now +5 for Republican in the House, and even 43-43 in senate.


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## Dalit

MAGA LOL


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## jhungary

46-46 in senate. Republican + 5 in house, Dem + 1 in house.

This is going to be close; the MSNBC project Republican is going to be 219 +/- 13 seat as of midnight. You need 218 to gain the house.


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## jhungary

NBC predict Fetterman defeated Oz, now Dem +1 in senate.


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## gambit

jhungary said:


> NBC predict Fetterman defeated Oz, now Dem +1 in senate.


I watched the entire F-O debate. I cannot see how anyone could vote for Fetterman. This man is *PHYSICALLY* unfit for public office. Am sorry that he had a stroke but the American public deserves someone who is mentally fit, if not intellectually superior.


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## jhungary

gambit said:


> I watched the entire F-O debate. I cannot see how anyone could vote for Fetterman. This man is *PHYSICALLY* unfit for public office. Am sorry that he had a stroke but the American public deserves someone who is mentally fit, if not intellectually superior.


Woah......Don't shoot the messenger, I didn't vote for him (I did vote in PA race)

Many people blame Oz for attending the Trump rally the last week, which pissed off too many conservative Republican and undecided Democrats

But my friend who live in Pittsburg tells me Fetterman is basically just hard working, he was there and he was everywhere trying to sell his vote, and he was in like every county, some of which have not even saw a Dem candidate in 20 years, and he was there pulling the vote. 

So either he was hardworking and earn those votes and beat the Republican, or Trump is so toxic everything he touches loses. I don't know.

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> Woah......Don't shoot the messenger, I didn't vote for him (I did vote in PA race)
> 
> Many people blame Oz for attending the Trump rally the last week, which pissed off too many conservative Republican and undecided Democrats
> 
> But my friend who live in Pittsburg tells me Fetterman is basically just hard working, he was there and he was everywhere trying to sell his vote, and he was in like every county, some of which have not even saw a Dem candidate in 20 years, and he was there pulling the vote.
> 
> So either he was hardworking and earn those votes and beat the Republican, or Trump is so toxic everything he touches loses. I don't know.


Am not cracking on ya...

Am just saying that unless Oz is so personally distasteful, there is no way anyone can credibly explain how is Fetterman a better person than Oz to serve at a national level office. What the Democrats did was morally wrong, and they know it. Fetterman will be nothing more than just a rubber stamp for whatever the DNC want. I do not have any skin in PA. Am just an interested observer.

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## jhungary

Lauren Boebert seems to be certain to lose CO House seat.......

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> Am not cracking on ya...
> 
> Am just saying that unless Oz is so personally distasteful, there is no way anyone can credibly explain how is Fetterman a better person than Oz to serve at a national level office. What the Democrats did was morally wrong, and they know it. Fetterman will be nothing more than just a rubber stamp for whatever the DNC want. I do not have any skin in PA. Am just an interested observer.


Well, Oz race remind me of another election in another country just 6 months ago in Australia. The Federal Election in Fowler (Which is where I used to live, I no longer live there....) Anyway, that seat was a safe Labor Seat and people are thinking it's going to be the local Labor candidate (which is Dai Le, a Vietnamese Australian) but at the last minutes, well, more like last 3 months, Labor parachuted Kristina Keneally into the seat and basically force Dai Le to resign and run as independent. And guess who win the seat of Fowler??

Oz is parachuted into PA, he was always a NJ man, rumor has it (I cannot vouch for it) Oz is seen as an outsider in PA, and that's okay because Fetterman also, but then what RNC does did pissed off most of the moderate conservative member in the neighbourhood and if that is not problematic enough, his final association with Donald Trump would most likely tilted the community toward Fetterman. 

As I said before Fetterman is really hardworking, and he has the x factor, Oz association with trump may or may not sink his ship, but him moving from NJ just to run in PA most certainly does.

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> Lauren Boebert seems to be certain to lose CO House seat.......


B and G needs to go, and you know who am talking about. Nevertheless, the Repugnicans are still on course to take the House, which is their original goal to start.



jhungary said:


> Oz is parachuted into PA, he was always a NJ man, rumor has it (I cannot vouch for it) Oz is seen as an outsider in PA, and that's okay because Fetterman also, but then what RNC does did pissed off most of the moderate conservative member in the neighbourhood and if that is not problematic enough, his final association with Donald Trump would most likely tilted the community toward Fetterman.
> 
> As I said before Fetterman is really hardworking, and he has the x factor, Oz association with trump may or may not sink his ship, but him moving from NJ just to run in PA most certainly does.


Fetterman worked hard to get elected, but his life history is anything but having to work for anything. On the other hand, Oz actually accomplished something with his life. One cannot be a surgeon and a TV star by being stupid. But yes, Oz is seen as more outsider than native to PA and I understand that.


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## jhungary

gambit said:


> B and G needs to go, and you know who am talking about. Nevertheless, the Repugnicans are still on course to take the House, which is their original goal to start.


Well, the problem is, it will not be the majority they are hoping for. I read somewhere (probably USA Today) that Republican are looking to take 40+ seat from the house, which Kornacki have a good point, because the last 10 election, when a Pres run into midterm with mid-40 approval level, it usually sink the house. In fact, midterm usually sink the house for the incumbent government except during Bill Clinton second term (65+ approval rate) and Bush First Term (After 911 and 63+ approval rate), but the republican isn't getting those number. And it's concerning. Because they need to otherwise they aren't going to dominate the house and may not even control the Congress given if they win the senate, which is highly unlikely with Fetterman win.

At this point, its Republican + 9 and Dem + 4 and Republican need net +5 to take the house, they probably will, but is not the +40 they were hoping for...


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## gambit

jhungary said:


> Well, the problem is, it will not be the majority they are hoping for. I read somewhere (probably USA Today) that Republican are looking to take 40+ seat from the house, which Kornacki have a good point, because the last 10 election, when a Pres run into midterm with mid-40 approval level, it usually sink the house. In fact, midterm usually sink the house for the incumbent government, but the republican aren't getting those number. And it's concerning.
> 
> At this point, its Republican + 9 and Dem + 4 and Republican need net +5 to take the house, they probably will, but is not the +40 they were hoping for...


Cynically speaking, the Repugs do not a 'mandate' level majority to derail Biden's agenda. Even just one will suffice. All they need is to remove Pelosi from the Speakership. Then they can lame-duck Biden for the next two yrs and that will stress him enough that either he will not seek reelection or will be so mentally feebled from the stress that the DNC will push him out. If the House falls into the Red, Biden is done and the DNC knows it.


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## jhungary

gambit said:


> Fetterman worked hard to get elected, but his life history is anything but having to work for anything. On the other hand, Oz actually accomplished something with his life. One cannot be a surgeon and a TV star by being stupid. But yes, Oz is seen as more outsider than native to PA and I understand that.


Well, I think being smart or stupid didn't really count in election nowadays...I mean look at who we voted in. B & G, then you have AOC, and then the big man Trump himself. Don't get me wrong, they are smart, but all of them are also idiots, if you know what I mean...



gambit said:


> Cynically speaking, the Repugs do not a 'mandate' level majority to derail Biden's agenda. Even just one will suffice. All they need is to remove Pelosi from the Speakership. Then they can lame-duck Biden for the next two yrs and that will stress him enough that either he will not seek reelection or will be so mentally feebled from the stress that the DNC will push him out. If the House falls into the Red, Biden is done and the DNC knows it.


If the house turns red, and not the way Republican wanted, I think the entire US political system is done until 2024, there aren't going to have anything done in the house anymore. It will just be a bunch of filibuster and motion raise over and over again. Neither side will work for the other side, as a result, nothing will be done. 

So I don't know which is worse. actually.


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## gambit

jhungary said:


> Well, I think being smart or stupid didn't really count in election nowadays...I mean look at who we voted in. B & G, then you have AOC, and then the big man Trump himself. Don't get me wrong, they are smart, but all of them are also idiots, if you know what I mean...


I wonder if Trump is the nadir of American politics. I sincerely hope he is. We, meaning all of us, have to experience those we elect into office in order to know what they are like. We have to put into office the likes of Boebert, Greene, Occasional-Cortex, and Trump to find out how low can we go. I honestly thought Nixon was the lowest we could go. Yeeecchhh...

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## SQ8

Best thing I read all today :

- who the heck conducts these polls and how?
Do they realize neither most late Gen X or millennials will rather pick up a pinless grenade before they answer a call from an unknown number.

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## Goritoes

De Santis Wins Florida again... Yay or Nay ?


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## jhungary

Goritoes said:


> De Santis Wins Florida again... Yay or Nay ?


He is always going to win........

As for Yay or Nay, well, it depends....


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## Goritoes

jhungary said:


> He is always going to win........
> 
> As for Yay or Nay, well, it depends....


Saw in news he and Trump is having some issues, honestly I thought he would lose.


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## gambit

Goritoes said:


> Saw in news he and Trump is having some issues, honestly I thought he would lose.


After today, the Repugnicans will quietly reassess their association with Trump.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> I wonder if Trump is the nadir of American politics. I sincerely hope he is. We, meaning all of us, have to experience those we elect into office in order to know what they are like. We have to put into office the likes of Boebert, Greene, Occasional-Cortex, and Trump to find out how low can we go. I honestly thought Nixon was the lowest we could go. Yeeecchhh...


That's how election works. 

We vote in a bunch of morons, and those morons bring the country down to a new low, and then generate another generation of morons, and then they vote in another bunch of morons......

IT's always been like this. I mean, how many people do you think they read the policy of those candidate before they vote? I do, you probably did, majority don't. That's the problem.



Goritoes said:


> Saw in news he and Trump is having some issues, honestly I thought he would lose.


Nah, Trump is so past tense, he is the reason why Republican underperform in this mid-term. 

DeSantis has a very large base in FL, there are NO WAY he could have lose that election.


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## gambit

jhungary said:


> That's how election works.
> 
> We vote in a bunch of morons, and those morons bring the country down to a new low, and then generate another generation of morons, and then they vote in another bunch of morons......
> 
> IT's always been like this. I mean, how many people do you think they read the policy of those candidate before they vote? I do, you probably did, majority don't. That's the problem.


Regarding Trump, if you separate the man from the policies, his policies are not that radically different from mainstream conservative, which consists of a strong military, low taxes, enforced immigration, and energy independence. I heard that on/off for decades before Dump came on the political scene. Put aside the environment issues, Raygun wanted energy independence. But I think Frump underestimated how morally and personally distasteful he is to many Americans of all social strata, and that disgust overwhelmed their intellect, otherwise Clump would have been reelected. I think Chump did not know how much Americans would dissect his life the moment he entered political life, whereas, people just tolerated him as another celeb when he was on TV.


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## jhungary

gambit said:


> Regarding Trump, if you separate the man from the policies, his policies are not that radically different from mainstream conservative, which consists of a strong military, low taxes, enforced immigration, and energy independence. I heard that on/off for decades before Dump came on the political scene. Put aside the environment issues, Raygun wanted energy independence. But I think Frump underestimated how morally and personally distasteful he is to many Americans of all social strata, and that disgust overwhelmed their intellect, otherwise Clump would have been reelected. I think Chump did not know how much Americans would dissect his life the moment he entered political life, whereas, people just tolerated him as another celeb when he was on TV.


You can say that to just about any politician.......

Their policy is the same, but how they get there is the heaven and earth...

On the other hand, the way Trump undermine Democracy is something people are not going to forget.....

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## Goritoes

gambit said:


> After today, the Repugnicans will quietly reassess their association with Trump.


I think you are underestimating the Trump fan base, his minions (Election results Deniers) are getting a lot of votes, and many are winning and coming to senate.



jhungary said:


> Nah, Trump is so past tense, he is the reason why Republican underperform in this mid-term.
> 
> DeSantis has a very large base in FL, there are NO WAY he could have lose that election.


I have a strong feeling that Trump will bounce back, because his ideology is still popular. 

I think DeStantis got much popularity from Endorsement from Trump, and later when he introduce the bill to prevent sexually explicit material getting into the school, Woke people called it " Don't say Gay Bill ".


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## jhungary

Goritoes said:


> I have a strong feeling that Trump will bounce back, because his ideology is still popular.
> 
> I think DeStantis got much popularity from Endorsement from Trump, and later when he introduce the bill to prevent sexually explicit material getting into the school, Woke people called it " Don't say Gay Bill ".


You do know DeSantis is rumoured to be the one that replace Trump on 2024, right??

Trump warn DeSantis numerous times, so did Trump minion, not to run on 2024 election, and sabotage his 2022 election effort immensely, Trump is scare of DeSantis, and after today, he should be, because unless DeSantis did anything stupid in the next 2 years, he is the one for Republican.


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## gambit

Goritoes said:


> I think you are underestimating the Trump fan base, his minions (Election results Deniers) are getting a lot of votes, and many are winning and coming to senate.


No one is elected by the base. What appears to be the base is actually the base + the middle. Some of the middle will go for one side and some for the other side, but essentially, it is the base + the middle that will propel the candidate to victory. Those in the middle who chose one side is often mistaken for member of the base. And that is the problem for the pollsters.




jhungary said:


> You can say that to just about any politician.......
> 
> Their policy is the same, but how they get there is the heaven and earth...
> 
> On the other hand, the way Trump undermine Democracy is something people are not going to forget.....


That is why I said Trump is *TEMPERAMENTALLY* unfit to be president. 

1. a person's or animal's nature, especially as it permanently affects their behavior.

Trump supporters drastically lowered their expectations and in many ways, I understand why. It is less about policies and more about putting a shock into the political system and Trump, with his crassness, was the perfect candidate.

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## nahtanbob

RabzonKhan said:


> You still have time, my friend.


voted



gambit said:


> B and G needs to go, and you know who am talking about. Nevertheless, the Repugnicans are still on course to take the House, which is their original goal to start.
> 
> 
> Fetterman worked hard to get elected, but his life history is anything but having to work for anything. On the other hand, Oz actually accomplished something with his life. One cannot be a surgeon and a TV star by being stupid. But yes, Oz is seen as more outsider than native to PA and I understand that.


trump is not a surgeon

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## jhungary

6 out of 7 Trump endorsed Governor failed at 2022 Midterm Election....

Only Kari Lake remain, and she is not looking good. Would that make 7 of 7??

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## Goritoes

jhungary said:


> You do know DeSantis is rumoured to be the one that replace Trump on 2024, right??
> 
> Trump warn DeSantis numerous times, so did Trump minion, not to run on 2024 election, and sabotage his 2022 election effort immensely, Trump is scare of DeSantis, and after today, he should be, because unless DeSantis did anything stupid in the next 2 years, he is the one for Republican.


Yep heard about that, and definitely this victory will give him a much needed boost, Plus his recent stunt to send migrants to a island for rich people brought some negativity, this victory is indeed shows that Floridians definitely support him and they don't care about what Trumps thinks.


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## jhungary

Goritoes said:


> Yep heard about that, and definitely this victory will give him a much needed boost, Plus his recent stunt to send migrants to a island for rich people brought some negativity, this victory is indeed shows that Floridians definitely support him and they don't care about what Trumps thinks.


Yeah, the left already making DeSantis joke on Trump expense. (Like Trump is now too cheap for his taste, referencing the time Trump uninvite to his rally before the election which saw 6 of the 7 + Oz goes down) 

FL people see DeSantis is god, they do whatever he told them to. FL is like a cult now, maybe you should leave FL, Colorado or Iowa is probably much better if you are a conservative.

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## Goritoes

jhungary said:


> Yeah, the left already making DeSantis joke on Trump expense. (Like Trump is now too cheap for his taste, referencing the time Trump uninvite to his rally before the election which saw 6 of the 7 + Oz goes down)
> 
> FL people see DeSantis is god, they do whatever he told them to. FL is like a cult now, maybe you should leave FL, Colorado or Iowa is probably much better if you are a conservative.


Florida is interesting state TBH, I mean if i get my old employer hire me than I might move back to SC, but if not than for now I will be staying here. Honestly I do see some protests around the USF area with kids holding banner against DeSantis, but than they are just kids and emotionally charged.


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## RabzonKhan

Democrats Win Senate Majority!


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## jhungary

RabzonKhan said:


> Democrats Win Senate Majority!
> 
> View attachment 896155


50 to 49, looks like Fetterman flip Pennsylvania flip is costing GOP its senate. 

Now Georgia race only mean if Democrats make history by adding a senate seat or things remain as tense before on a 50/50. And I don't like how Hersel Walker looks........

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## jhungary

Kevin Costner says it's 'OK' if people don't like him for his politics​


Kevin Costner says it's 'OK' if people don't like him for his politics


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## RabzonKhan

Trump is back. He officially announced his candidacy for the 2024 presidential race and as usual an hour-long speech was full of complains, wild exaggerations and lies.

It’s interesting to note that hardly any Senators, House members and Governors showed up for his pathetic low energy announcement. Many mega Republican donors also distanced themselves from him and even his own daughter Ivanka announced “I do not plan to be involved in politics”. lol









jhungary said:


> 50 to 49, looks like Fetterman flip Pennsylvania flip is costing GOP its senate.
> 
> Now Georgia race only mean if Democrats make history by adding a senate seat or things remain as tense before on a 50/50. And I don't like how Hersel Walker looks........


I agree, he’s dumb. Did you watch his vampire vs werewolf speech. lol


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## RabzonKhan




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## jhungary

RabzonKhan said:


> Trump is back. He officially announced his candidacy for the 2024 presidential race and as usual an hour-long speech was full of complains, wild exaggerations and lies.
> 
> It’s interesting to note that hardly any Senators, House members and Governors showed up for his pathetic low energy announcement. Many mega Republican donors also distanced themselves from him and even his own daughter Ivanka announced “I do not plan to be involved in politics”. lol
> 
> 
> View attachment 898463
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, he’s dumb. Did you watch his vampire vs werewolf speech. lol


Forget about the vampire and werewolf, his last Fox interview was gold...

You know which one I am talking about...



Herschel Walker makes 'erection' gaffe on Fox News

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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan




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## RabzonKhan

Trump will 'terminate the GOP' if they nominate him again in 2024: Wall Street Journal editors​Story by Tom Boggioni • 6h ago

*Add the members of the Wall Street Journal editorial board to the long and growing list of conservatives who believe Donald Trump is disqualified from serving as president again after making comments about gutting the U.S. Constitution just because he lost his re-election bid in 2020.*

In a headlining editorial, the former president was blasted for posting "A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution. Our great 'Founders' did not want, and would not condone, False & Fraudulent Elections!" on his Truth Social account.

*According to the editors, Trump's attempt to walk back his comment on Monday only made matters worse and Republicans need to cut the chord with the former president if they have any hope of winning back the Oval Office in 2024.*

Noting Trump demanded on Monday that the 2020 election “SHOULD GO TO THE RIGHTFUL WINNER OR, AT A MINIMUM, BE REDONE” the editors fired back, "Is that all?"

"The Constitution contains no provision for mulligan presidential elections, so what Mr. Trump is talking about is impossible under the parchment written by the Founders. But if he doesn’t grasp why he’s being called the constitutional Terminator, he should reread what he wrote two days earlier," they wrote before reminding their conservative readers of the years of Trump's outrageous comments on Twitter.

"For years, Mr. Trump’s Twitter feed was the gift that kept on giving—to Democrats. Now his Truth Social account is playing the same role, giving the media a way to turn unfavorable stories back to Mr. Trump’s outburst du jour," the editorial stated.

*"Truth in advertising, though," they continued, "Mr. Trump is giving Republicans a taste of what they’re in for if they nominate him again in 2024. His presidential campaign is less than a month old. Already Mr. Trump has dined with anti-Semites and a white nationalist, while calling for himself to be reinstated as President, even if this requires the “termination” of whatever in the Constitution stands in the way."

"What he’ll really terminate is the GOP," they concluded.*


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## RabzonKhan

Yet another Trump-backed candidate lost! 

In the runoff for the last Senate race of 2022, Democratic Raphael Warnock defeated Republican Herschel Walker in Georgia, adding a 51st seat to Democrats’ Senate majority.


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## RabzonKhan




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## SQ8

RabzonKhan said:


> View attachment 903814


Would not matter because the crazies have taken over the house and the sensible GOP types are left in the dust

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## RabzonKhan



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## RabzonKhan

SQ8 said:


> Would not matter because the crazies have taken over the house and the sensible GOP types are left in the dust


I agree, except for few, most of them are election denying, pro-Trump religious/racist extremists.

Still, it does make a difference, a split Congress is far better than one controlled by the Republicans. Democrat controlled Senate maintains the party’s ability to continue confirming executive nominees and judges. And since the Democrats have 51/49 majority, they can have greater control of Senate committees. They can also set their own floor agenda and be able to reject crazy MAGA bills past by a Republican-led house. I'm pretty sure there are some other benefits that I cannot think of at this time.

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## SQ8

RabzonKhan said:


> I agree, except for few, most of them are election denying, pro-Trump religious/racist extremists.
> 
> Still, it does make a difference, a split Congress is far better than one controlled by the Republicans. Democrat controlled Senate maintains the party’s ability to continue confirming executive nominees and judges. And since the Democrats have 51/49 majority, they can have greater control of Senate committees. They can also set their own floor agenda and be able to reject crazy MAGA bills past by a Republican-led house. I'm pretty sure there are some other benefits that I cannot think of at this time.


Not with Sinema defecting - she isn’t actually independent but is rumored to be a full on republican pretending to be a democrat to win her seat.

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## jhungary

SQ8 said:


> Not with Sinema defecting - she isn’t actually independent but is rumored to be a full on republican pretending to be a democrat to win her seat.


If Sinema defected to Republican, she is going to lose her committee assignment. 

Considering from next year the The Congress is not going to work (Dem have senate and GOP have the house) I would think Sinema would just keep the committee assignment and instead of fully defected to the GOP. It's really pointless unless Joe Manchin does the same.

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## SQ8

jhungary said:


> If Sinema defected to Republican, she is going to lose her committee assignment.
> 
> Considering from next year the The Congress is not going to work (Dem have senate and GOP have the house) I would think Sinema would just keep the committee assignment and instead of fully defected to the GOP. It's really pointless unless Joe Manchin does the same.


I have a feeling Manchin might go independent as well following suit but it seems Bernie is twitching more than usual. In a way I am also glad AoC has herself stuck in an ethics situation - that woman gave me the cringe

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## Chat SAMOSA

Does it make any difference unless both sinema and manchin actually join gop? Harris will still sway votes

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## jhungary

SQ8 said:


> I have a feeling Manchin might go independent as well following suit but it seems Bernie is twitching more than usual. In a way I am also glad AoC has herself stuck in an ethics situation - that woman gave me the cringe


Nah, if he wanted to, he could have done it back with GOP have 50 and needed Harris tiebreaker

What I can see is this. Now with 50 seats and Sinema is out, The Democrat would be up to Manchin arse to have him stay on their side. Manchin would get nothing if he go independent, because many people believe Sinema is probably not going to be re-elected because Arizona is turning blue. It serve Manchin nothing if he defected as well. He may as well stay as it is and squeeze all the democrat out.

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## RabzonKhan

Digital trading cards for people who love losers and losing!









SQ8 said:


> Not with Sinema defecting - she isn’t actually independent but is rumored to be a full on republican pretending to be a democrat to win her seat.


So far nothing has change, she insists that her new party identity will not impact the way she votes and said she won’t caucus with Republicans. Before her announcement she informed senator Schumer of her decision and asked him to keep her committee assignments. And on Monday, she came to the Senate floor, casting a vote for a Biden judicial nominee.

Bty, let’s not forget independent Sens. Bernie Sanders and Angus King have been caucusing with the Democrats for a long time.


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## RabzonKhan




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## jhungary

Kevin Mccarthy failed to get enough vote for House Speaker for the 2nd days and 4th times.......Jesus, what had Republican Party been doing....

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## KAL-EL

SQ8 said:


> Not with Sinema defecting - she isn’t actually independent but is rumored to be a full on republican pretending to be a democrat to win her seat.



After all that's transpired, Kristen Sinema knows full well she will most likely not win another election as a Democrat. As she's grown increasingly unpopular.

Not a real shocker to the Democrat political class as they considered her to be not a Democrat for a while

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## RabzonKhan

jhungary said:


> Kevin Mccarthy failed to get enough vote for House Speaker for the 2nd days and 4th times.......Jesus, what had Republican Party been doing....


What a damn clown show. The House is beginning a 10th vote for Speaker, and guess what, McCarthy has already lost, since 18 Republicans have already voted for his opponents.


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## jhungary

RabzonKhan said:


> What a damn clown show. The House is beginning a 10th vote for Speaker, and guess what, McCarthy has already lost, since 18 Republicans have already voted for his opponents.


Well, I don't think majority of republican would vote for Jefferies, what McCarthy should do is to pawn out of Congressional Committee assignment to see if any Democrats willing to back him, I mean McCarthy is out of tricks for his fellow GOP rep. HE isn't going to give more to sway them because there are no more, he can give. He needs to look at bi-partisan backing. 

But I have a very strong feeling the dem are going to drag this on as long as possible, Biden already tweeted this is embarrassing and is none of his business, that show you how much Dem don't care about the debacle, and the most tragic things is, Biden was right, it is an embarrassment, and it is not his business....

I will say even McCarthy get to be speaker, the house is not going to be in order.......

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## FuturePAF

jhungary said:


> Well, I don't think majority of republican would vote for Jefferies, what McCarthy should do is to pawn out of Congressional Committee assignment to see if any Democrats willing to back him, I mean McCarthy is out of tricks for his fellow GOP rep. HE isn't going to give more to sway them because there are no more, he can give. He needs to look at bi-partisan backing.
> 
> But I have a very strong feeling the dem are going to drag this on as long as possible, Biden already tweeted this is embarrassing and is none of his business, that show you how much Dem don't care about the debacle, and the most tragic things is, Biden was right, it is an embarrassment, and it is not his business....
> 
> I will say even McCarthy get to be speaker, the house is not going to be in order.......


Trump even got a vote 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611165803117744131

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## jhungary

4 days, 11 vote..........


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## RabzonKhan

jhungary said:


> 4 days, 11 vote..........


McCarthy finally won the election after damn 15 (humiliating) ballots held over five days of voting. Now, the million-dollar question is, at what cost?


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## jhungary

RabzonKhan said:


> McCarthy finally won the election after damn 15 (humiliating) ballots held over five days of voting. Now, the million-dollar question is, at what cost?
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 910193


Well, you should ask what power does he yield, he has given out the farm to the fringe GOP group to get this job, I mean it only take 1 GOP member to remove him, what can he actually do??

Was watching Morning Joe on the other day, Joe Scarborough is right on the issue, McCarthy should have walk away from the talk and say "Don't come to me when you are ready to vote for me" I mean he wanted this job so bad and didn't see it will hurt GOP more if he just stay put, as there are pretty much no one else other than him for the job, and they needed him more than he needed them, but instead he basically appeased everyone, which mean now he is at the bottom of the chain, he didn't yield the power, the caucus do


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