# Pakistan Successfully Tested Babur 3 Cruise Missile launch from Submarine : ISPR



## Devil Soul

*Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor* ‏@OfficialDGISPR  5m5 minutes ago
#Pakistan successfully test fired first Submarine launched Cruise Missile Babur-3. Rg 450 Km. #COAS congrats Nation and the team involved.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818427713627295745

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## Rafi

Sub launched Babur cruise missile test fired congratulations to the whole nation.

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## Muhammad Omar

Pakistan Successfully Tested Submarine Launched babur 3 Cruise Missile with Range of 450 KM :ISPR

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## Khafee

*Dec 14, 2016*


Khafee said:


> Well those who bleed green, might be interested to know that the second version of Babur which reached IOC " a couple of years +/- ago" was SLCM.
> 
> This was the second version, after Babur Surface to Surface CM.
> 
> *Note:* Those who bleed any other color except green, please ignore this post.
> 
> Thank You!

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## happybirthdaytoyou

Congrats Big News

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## Burhan Wani

You made my day. Kill me guys.

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## Devil Soul

*Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor* ‏@OfficialDGISPR  8m8 minutes ago
CJCSC Gen Zubair Mahmood Hayat, Chief of Air Staff and Chief of Naval Staff also congratulate Nation and the team on land mark achievement.

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## H!TchHiker

Now this is news..Well Done......Land, Air and Sea..

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## rana MRL

Pakistan nuclear triad completed ...

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## Falcon26

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818427713627295745

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## Zarvan

Devil Soul said:


> *Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor* ‏@OfficialDGISPR  5m5 minutes ago
> #Pakistan successfully test fired first Submarine launched Cruise Missile Babur-3. Rg 450 Km. #COAS congrats Nation and the team involved.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818427713627295745


Finally we did it. Good Job every one

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## Path-Finder

is this why sanctions on Missile companies got put on?

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## Devil Soul



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## IceCold

Devil Soul said:


> *Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor* ‏@OfficialDGISPR  5m5 minutes ago
> #Pakistan successfully test fired first Submarine launched Cruise Missile Babur-3. Rg 450 Km. #COAS congrats Nation and the team involved.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818427713627295745


Bhai i cant see the video. Koi or link

By the way why is the range reduced?

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## The Eagle

@waz @TaimiKhan @Zaki @Oscar 

https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...ur-3-cruise-missile-ispr.471649/#post-9091635

Kindly merge the threads here though are posted on mere one line but on the same subject, so the details would be available at single place. 

Thanks.

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## Devil Soul



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## Muhammad Omar



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## Khafee

Repeat Thread Can both threads be merged?

Thank You

@Emmie @waz @Zaki @Jungibaaz 

https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...issile-babur-3-rg-450-km.471646/#post-9091624

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## Areesh

Finally

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## Nav

Big News, congrats to our great nation, range is 450 KM. Any one with video?

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## The Eagle

Congrats team and indeed a big news. There was indeed a reason to put sanctions by US on Pakistani Companies but wouldn't affect much as once the growth started, will never be stopped. These sanctions and other threats are actually being our favour from different point of view so that we move ahead, felt the necessity and strive for the best.

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## happybirthdaytoyou

is it launched from Agosta 90b????

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## nwmalik

Mashah Allah 
Sea based deterrence in place now.

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## Muhammad Omar

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818427713627295745

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## Hyde

So is this the first time we launched a cruise missile from submarine right?

Congrats Pakistan, what a landmark achievement!

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## Areesh

So it is our Augusta90b that fired this missile??

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## Khafee

Zaki said:


> So is this the first time we launched a cruise missile from submarine right?
> 
> Congrats Pakistan, what a landmark achievement!


First time announced - Just my opinion.

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## rana MRL

Babur v2 range is 700 km ,,, Babur SLCM has 450 km range ,, any senior member explain the reduction in range,,, answer welcome...

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## Ajaxpaul

Congrats pakistan !!

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## Muhammad Omar



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## Burhan Wani

Areesh said:


> Finally


Brother i guess launched from Augusta 90B?

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## IceCold

The Eagle said:


> Congrats team and indeed a big news. There was indeed a reason to put sanctions by US on Pakistani Companies but wouldn't affect much as once the growth started, will never be stopped. These sanctions and other threats are actually being our favour from different point of view so that we move ahead, felt the necessity and strive for the best.


I have another question? Can it be related somehow to Chinese threat to India that they wont sit idle? Just a thought for saying out loud.

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## Guynextdoor2

warhead weight?

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## biloo700



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## Falcon26

The impact & accuracy is mind boggling.

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## raihans

Guynextdoor2 said:


> warhead weight?


jub bhejien gay to weight ker layna

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## Muhammad Omar

What a great way to start 2017 

Masha Allah ALHAMDULILLAH 

ALLAH O AKBAR

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## Devil Soul



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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Congratz to PN and team of scientists . I think France is taken into confidence about launch of Babur from Agosta 90 .Now , we have sea based Nuclear deterrence . Nuclear Triad is completed .

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## happybirthdaytoyou

raihans said:


> jub bhejien gay to weight ker layna



Very Well Said Bro but us waqt bachay ka kaun weight karnay kay liye

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## raihans

congrats to the whole nation and all the involved team, launch pads from land, air and sea

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## Baybars Han

Does this mean Pakistan can have a sea based nuclear detterent? Can you put a nuclear warhead on it? If this is done, the only thing left I think is working towards ICBM.

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## Devil Soul

#Pakistan Tests A Nuclear-capable Cruise Missile in the #Indian Ocean

Pakistan conducted its first successful test fire of Submarine Launched Cruise Missile (SLCM) Babur-3 having a range of 450 kilometers, from an undisclosed location in the Indian Ocean. The missile was fired from an underwater, mobile platform and hit its target with precise accuracy. Babur-3 is a sea-based variant of Ground Launched Cruise Missile (GLCM) Babur-2, which was successfully tested earlier in December, last year.

Babur-3 SLCM incorporates state of the art technologies including underwater controlled propulsion and advanced guidance and navigation features, duly augmented by Global Navigation, Terrain and Scene Matching Systems. The missile features terrain hugging and sea skimming flight capabilities to evade hostile radars and air defenses, in addition to certain stealth technologies, in an emerging regional Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) environment.

Babur-3 SLCM in land-attack mode, is capable of delivering various types of payloads and will provide Pakistan with a Credible Second Strike Capability, augmenting deterrence. While the pursuit and now the successful attainment of a second strike capability by Pakistan represents a major scientific milestone, it is manifestation of the strategy of measured response to nuclear strategies and postures being adopted in Pakistan’s neighborhood.

The test was witnessed by the Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC) General Zubair Mahmood Hayat, DG Strategic Plans Division (SPD) Lieutenant General Mazhar Jamil, Commander Naval Strategic Force Command (NSFC), senior officials, scientists and engineers from Scientific Strategic Organizations. The CJCSC and three services chiefs congratulated all the officials involved, on achieving this highly significant milestone. He also highlighted that successful test fire of SLCM also demonstrates confidence on our scientists and engineers in fostering the technological prowess, through indigenization and self-reliance. Pakistan eyes this hallmark development as a step towards reinforcing policy of credible minimum deterrence.

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## Valar Dohaeris

Alhamdulillah.

A great achievement of our scientists and engineers. 
Congratulation to the whole nations.

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## Areesh

Jonah Arthur said:


> Brother i guess launched from Augusta 90B?



Yup that is the only option.

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## Khafee

rana MRL said:


> Babur v2 range is 700 km ,,, Babur SLCM has 450 km range ,, any senior member explain the reduction in range,,, answer welcome...


When you give bad news to a heart patient, it is in very slow doses. A big dose could be detrimental.

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## Rafi

First official launch, Babur SLCM has been tested dozens of times, US Intel had become aware, leading to sanctions.

Range will be increased in time.

Military level Beido also verified.

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## Burhan Wani

Areesh said:


> Yup that is the only option.


Too much celebrations at my office right now.

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## Khafee

Path-Finder said:


> is this why sanctions on Missile companies got put on?


Exactly!

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## Areesh

Jonah Arthur said:


> Too much celebrations at my office right now.



Same here. 2017 has come with a big news.

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## Sulman Badshah

rana MRL said:


> Babur v2 range is 700 km ,,, Babur SLCM has 450 km range ,, any senior member explain the reduction in range,,, answer welcome...


Range might be restricted due to compact size .. as it was launched through torpedo tubes and those tubes have their own diameter ...

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## Emmie

So it was the reason for sanctions!

Congratulations to whole nation, such a great and gleeful achievement! Thanks to scientists! I am so happy literally dancing.

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## Hyde

Khafee said:


> Exactly!


How many nations can launch cruise missile from subs?

Any idea?

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## Burhan Wani

Areesh said:


> Same here. 2017 has come with a big news.


That day will come when we recieve first batch of eurofighters. Trust me.

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## Falcon26

Rafi said:


> First official launch, Babur SLCM has been tested dozens of times, US Intel had become aware, leading to sanctions.
> 
> Range will be increased in time.
> 
> Military level Beido also verified.



Congrats. As in the nuclear program , your country is always a step ahead.

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## The Eagle

Launched...







Going Flight....






Cruising.....





Target sighted, well aligned, approaching....







The accuracy..... Ma'Sha'ALLAH.... speaks volume of hard work and genius mind..... Great achievement





Congrats team Pakistan and all our brothers and friends......

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## mdcp

Congr@ts to whole nation. We must take advantage of these bias sanction and do maximum testing of our resources and invest heavily in indigenous development

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## !eon

Baybars Han said:


> Does this mean Pakistan can have a sea based nuclear detterent? Can you put a nuclear warhead on it? If this is done, the only thing left I think is working towards ICBM.


yes, of course

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## hussain0216

Emmie said:


> So it was the reason for sanctions!
> 
> Congratulations to whole nation, such a great and gleeful achievement! Thanks to scientists! I am so happy literally dancing.



Interesting point


Maybe this is why the U.S placed sanctions?

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## Jinn Baba

Wow!!!!! 

And just today I saw a thread that pakistan was the only nuclear country without a sea deterrent

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## Devil Soul

IceCold said:


> Bhai i cant see the video. Koi or link
> 
> By the way why is the range reduced?

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## The Eagle

IceCold said:


> I have another question? Can it be related somehow to Chinese threat to India that they wont sit idle? Just a thought for saying out loud.



In that case, it is going to be more surprising than this one, IMO. This alone development was undergoing since long was worked hard to be done. I know what you pointed here but is totally different that even by those Chinese words, many quarters can't sleep well.

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## hussain0216

Babur 1

Then Babur 2 anti ship cruise missile 

Now Babur 3 SLCM

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## HttpError

Today we have completed our Nuclear Triad.












Pakistan Zindabad

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## monitor

*Pakistan launches first submarine-launched cruise missile Babur-3*
January 9, 2017
By: Samaa Web Desk
Published in Pakistan
Be the first to comment!


*Pakistan conducted its first successful test fire of Submarine Launched Cruise Missile (SLCM) Babur-3 having a range of 450 kilometers, from an undisclosed location in the Indian Ocean.*


The missile was fired from an underwater, mobile platform and hit its target with precise accuracy. Babur-3 is a sea-based variant of Ground Launched Cruise Missile (GLCM) Babur-2, which was successfully tested earlier in December, last year.


Babur-3 SLCM incorporates state of the art technologies including underwater controlled propulsion and advanced guidance and navigation features, duly augmented by Global Navigation, Terrain and Scene Matching Systems. The missile features terrain hugging and sea skimming flight capabilities to evade hostile radars and air defenses, in addition to certain stealth technologies, in an emerging regional Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) environment.


*Babur-3 SLCM in land-attack mode, is capable of delivering various types of payloads and will provide Pakistan with a Credible Second Strike Capability, augmenting deterrence. While the pursuit and now the successful attainment of a second strike capability by Pakistan represents a major scientific milestone, it is manifestation of the strategy of measured response to nuclear strategies and postures being adopted in Pakistan’s neighborhood.*


The test was witnessed by the Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC) General Zubair Mahmood Hayat, DG Strategic Plans Division (SPD) Lieutenant General Mazhar Jamil, Commander Naval Strategic Force Command (NSFC), senior officials, scientists and engineers from Scientific Strategic Organizations.


The CJCSC and three services chiefs congratulated all the officials involved, on achieving this highly significant milestone. He also highlighted that successful test fire of SLCM also demonstrates confidence on our scientists and engineers in fostering the technological prowess, through indigenization and self-reliance. Pakistan eyes this hallmark development as a step towards reinforcing policy of credible minimum deterrence.

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## rana MRL

Khafee said:


> When you give bad news to a heart patient, it is in very slow doses. A big dose could be detrimental.[/QUOTE
> Yes u r right ,,

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## monitor



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## ArrowHead

finally ! Nuclear triad

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## The Eagle

Baybars Han said:


> Does this mean Pakistan can have a sea based nuclear detterent? Can you put a nuclear warhead on it? If this is done, the only thing left I think is working towards ICBM.



True that w.r.t. warhead etc.... ICBM, I think we will wait for the right time to come with such idea as since a while, we have been in pursuit of this development, you would have read that US put sanctions immediately upon those entities that are actively involved in these developments. However, one can say, slowly but gradually and a thing bound to happen ultimately due to the threats. 

Congrats Brother....

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## Nefarious

Impressive and mad accuracy...Is there any confirmation that Pakistan is using Chinese GPS for navigation?

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## Pandora

WE SAW WE CAME WE CONQUERED 

PROUD OF OUR SCIENTISTS AND COUNTRY TO HAVE ACHIEVED SUCH A RARE CAPABILITY.

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## NeonNinja

This is first time we announced


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## Syed Azfar Hussain

No words

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## monitor



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## rana MRL

I think next upgrade of 2 slow doses for neighbour and uncle heart patients will be SLBM ,, and IRBM or ICBM .... so they might not be expired soon


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## ArrowHead



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## Hammad Arshad Qureshi

Congratulations to Pakistan Military forces and to my civilian brothers and sisters

We Pakistani simply rock

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## Syed Azfar Hussain

“Pakistan successfully test fired first Submarine launched Cruise Missile Babur-3. Range 450km. COAS congrats nation and the team involved,” DG ISPR Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor said in a statement

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## WarFariX

Areesh said:


> Same here. 2017 has come with a big news.


"expect many revolutionary news in 2017" , my source

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## Peaceful Civilian

This is great news. Now , we got credible 2nd strike capability. Congrats to all scientists & engineers .

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## SSGcommandoPAK

Do we have second strike capability now ? NUCLEAR TRIAD ?? masoomana Sawal !

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## Max

Alhamdulillah, Thanks to Nescom and people involve in this program..

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## monitor

*Bang on Target .*

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## Rafael

O bhensaaa! 

Ithey rakh!

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## monitor

YousufSSG said:


> Do we have second strike capability now ? masoomana Sawal !



Yes though with cruise missile still a great achievement.

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## Men in Green

Peaceful Civilian said:


> This is great news. Now , we got credible 2nd strike capability. Congrats to all scientists & engineers .


3rd strike
by land
by Air
by sea
Congrats to all my brother Pakistanis

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## Emmie

Pakistan is the only nuclear state without sea deterrent. Well, no more, no more!

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## Riz

I would like to see a long range missile too, BTW congrats to all Pakistanis and specially to PDF warrior's

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## monitor

I am not seeing any Indian members here where are they ??

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## Devil Soul

Why its so quite in here???

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## AMCA

monitor said:


> I am not seeing any Indian members here where are they ??



Why do you think we are necessary here?

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## Muhammad Omar

monitor said:


> I am not seeing any Indian members here where are they ??



Unconscious Shocked

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## Hyde

Awaiting to hear Shri Modi jee congratulating Pakistan 

Trolling, infract me 


Devil Soul said:


> Why its so quite in here???

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## Salman Shahid

Does this mean Pakistan has completed it's nuclear triad?


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## Men in Green

Pakistan - The only Nuclear Armed State without a Sea-Based deterrent

ab tera kiya hoga kaliya

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## PïXëL

Congrats.You guys deserve the praise..


Salman Shahid said:


> Does this mean Pakistan has completed it's nuclear triad?


lol

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## Syed Azfar Hussain

Chief of Army Staff General Qamar Javed Bajwa, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee General Zubair Mahmood Hayat, Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman and Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Muhammad Zakaullah congratulated the nation and the missile launch team on the achievement.


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## SSGcommandoPAK

monitor said:


> Yes though with cruise missile still a great achievement.


Allah o AKber

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## Devil Soul

PïXëL said:


> Congrats.You guys deserve the praise..
> 
> lol


Lets laugh together... yeah tu LOL ho gaya

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## JamD

*"The missile was fired from an underwater, mobile platform and hit its target with precise accuracy"*

I love the choice of words here haha. Didn't use the word submarine. Does our contract with the French restrict this kind of modification?

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## Max

We should still keep working on nuclear propulsion and SLBM for future program, i think this is little short of what we call *"credible"* deterrence. but nonetheless still a good capability and achievement.

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## Men in Green

Devil Soul said:


> Lets laugh together... yeah tu LOL ho gaya


np i can do better ye to LOLWA hogay re

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## Devil Soul

*Timing ....... 
-------------------*
Press Release 
No PR13/2017-ISPR Dated: January 9, 2017
Rawalpindi - January 9, 2017:
*General John W. Nicholson, Commander Resolute Support Mission (RSM) and US Forces in Afghanistan visited Pakistan today.* On reaching Pakistan the visiting General had a meeting with Chief of Army Staff (COAS), General Qamar Javed Bajwa.

COAS appreciated role of erstwhile International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) and presently Resolute Support Mission (RSM) Force for peace and stability in Afghanistan. COAS acknowledged continuous support of RSM to enable Afghan National Security Forces (ANSF) for enhancing the capacity and capability to independently tackle security challenges in Afghanistan. COAS emphasized requirement of Pak –Afghan bilateral border security mechanism for which RSM can play important role.

Later, General John Nicholson and General Qamar Javed Bajwa, COAS jointly visited Miranshah,North Wazirastan Agency. Visiting General was briefed by General officer commanding, on Operation Zarb-e- Azb and progress on the socio-economic activities including return of TDPs. Visitors were taken to Miranshah bazaar where they saw the development work being undertaken by Pakistan Army.

General John Nicholson appreciated successful Operations conducted by Pakistan Army. The visiting dignitary acknowledged the requirement of bilateral border security coordination. Earlier on arrival at Miranshah, Lt Gen Nazir Ahmed Butt commander Peshawer Corps received the visiting Generals.

-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-

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## Shotgunner51

Devil Soul said:


> *Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor* ‏@OfficialDGISPR  5m5 minutes ago
> #Pakistan successfully test fired first Submarine launched Cruise Missile Babur-3. Rg 450 Km. #COAS congrats Nation and the team involved.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818427713627295745


Congrats bros, great job!

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## Riz

Zaki said:


> Awaiting to hear Shri Modi jee congratulating Pakistan
> 
> Trolling, infract me


Namshkaar , sary note bhi band kar diay phir bhi pakistan na daboki sa mijjile fire kar dia ..hahahaaaa

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## rana MRL

Well a Pakistan NANY way to say HAPPY NEW YEAR ..

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## wasileo80

Alhamdullilah Alhamdullilah
Now the thread with title "The only nuclear power with out sea-based deterrent" should be closed for ever now!

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## punit

congrats .. ! which platform was used to launch the Missile ? a pontoon or Actual Submarine?

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## Falcon26

wasileo80 said:


> Alhamdullilah Alhamdullilah
> Now the thread with title "The only nuclear power with out sea-based deterrent" should be closed for ever now!



There was a comment by the centurion individual in that thread in which he said " to have any chance of sea based deterrence Pakistan must find bigger submarines" I wonder what he's saying now

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## Riz

wasileo80 said:


> Alhamdullilah Alhamdullilah
> Now the thread with title "The only nuclear power with out sea-based deterrent" should be closed for ever now!


Now replace that title with..pakistan the only nuclear power without nuclear submarine or without ICBM

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## Kompromat

Congratulations everyone, we have a triad and don't worry about the range. Its just the 'stated range' not the 'actuall range'.

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## LeGenD

Oye! @Hassan Guy 

Yeh kiya ho gaya? 

Excellent accomplishment.


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## M@rKhor

Congrats Pakistan.. Your sons will leave no stone unturned to defend you....

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## Areesh

punit said:


> congrats .. ! which platform was used to launch the Missile ? a pontoon or Actual Submarine?



As per ISPR. Submarine.

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## Hassan Guy

LeGenD said:


> Oye! @Hassan Guy
> 
> Yeh kiya ho gaya?
> 
> Excellent accomplishment.


I wasn't expecting that tbh - quite unexpected, wonder what took them so long.

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## Imran Khan

ye baat hoi na PARTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

out of all our missiles this is the most difficult and advance objective which we achieved successfully. Feeling proud and happy on Pakistan achievement.

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## Areesh

Where are the boys at this big news??

@Windjammer @DESERT FIGHTER @Tipu7 @Zarvan

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## Jungibaaz

What a great new year's gift.

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## Imran Khan

pin point hot the target flag

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## bafxet

WoW what achievement....what annn achievement!!!! A country which has been denied technology by Western powers is doing wonders one after another.

Hats off to the scientists and engineers on achieving such a remarkable feat.

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## punit

Areesh said:


> As per ISPR. Submarine.


Augosta 90 most probably then. right ?


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## hussain0216

Hassan Guy said:


> I wasn't expecting that tbh - quite unexpected, wonder what took them so long.



Nice save


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## bafxet

rana MRL said:


> Pakistan nuclear triad completed ...


No yet missing Neuclear sub

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## Areesh

punit said:


> Augosta 90 most probably then. right ?



Yup that is the only option.

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Areesh said:


> Yup that is the only option.


Agosta 70 may be


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## hussain0216

Once we get the 8 new subs plus upgraded Augustas from Turkey we will have numerous platforms to utilise this

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## Devil Soul

Devil Soul said:


>


@TaimiKhan Bhai Jaan, why have u rated my above post negatively???

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## Areesh

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> Agosta 70 may be



Nah. I don't think so.


----------



## Dr. Strangelove



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## punit

Areesh said:


> Yup that is the only option.


Babur is turning out be great success story for Pakistan. We hope some thing similar for Nirbhay.

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## Hassan Guy

Grevion said:


> Thank you China!

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## Imran Khan



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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Grevion said:


> Thank you China!


Lol Indian trolls are coming . But u should research before trolling . Babur is copy of US Tomhawk. so , ur China rant will not work here .

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## wasileo80

Falcon26 said:


> There was a comment by the centurion individual in that thread in which he said " to have any chance of sea based deterrence Pakistan must find bigger submarines" I wonder what he's saying now


In-fact he might referred that bigger boats will need for SLBM. But for Cruise Missile yes PN used torpedo tubes and i am sure that coming new S20 will come with the long range babur CM which can be fired from torpedo tubes of S20. 
So yes TRIAD has completed with the today's babur test fired. 
And in my opinion PNSF will go with long range SLCM on their submarines and all future submarines fleet will be equiped with AIP. So to some extend the need of SLBM will overruled.

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## Burhan Wani

M@rKhor said:


> Congrats Pakistan.. Your sons will leave no stone unturned to defend you....


I know you. MArattay

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Areesh said:


> Nah. I don't think so.


I meant there are options available .


----------



## Max

Grevion said:


> Thank you China!



@Zaki @TaimiKhan

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## Hassan Guy

wasileo80 said:


> So to some extend the need of SLBM will overruled.


Not necessarily.


----------



## Zarvan

It's time we go for Frigates which have VLS systems to fire long range cruise Babur Missiles. Also time to start working on nuclear submarine. ALso hoping to see Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile also

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## Burhan Wani

Grevion said:


> Thank you China!


At last The first Butt hurt emerged.
@Khafee @Areesh

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## rana MRL

texfab said:


> No yet missing Neuclear sub


Hope to see in near future


----------



## Hassan Guy

Zarvan said:


> It's time we go for Frigates which have VLS systems to fire long range cruise Babur Missiles. Also time to start working on nuclear submarine. ALso hoping to see Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile also


Agree with this gentleman.

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## Areesh

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> I meant there are options available .



Yeah but chances are very low. It must be Augusta90b.

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## Zarvan

Horus said:


> Congratulations everyone, we have a triad and don't worry about the range. Its just the 'stated range' not the 'actuall range'.


I hope you are right on this one.


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## SSGcommandoPAK

Grevion said:


> Thank you China!


Fucki** Troll ! Here have some burnol !

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## Hassan Guy

YousufSSG said:


> Fucki** Troll ! ? please someone give this Indian some Burnol .....


Go to page 9...

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## rana MRL

Jonah Arthur said:


> At last The first Butt hurt emerged.
> @Khafee @Areesh


 First but not least .. keep large dose of Burnol in stock ....

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## Zarvan

Areesh said:


> Where are the boys at this big news??
> 
> @Windjammer @DESERT FIGHTER @Tipu7 @Zarvan


I am here Sir G I was busy posting this news on Indian Defence forums waiting for there reaction to come. It would be fun to see there reaction. I commented on page 1 on forum. It's big news time to increase the speed of work on submarines we are getting from China

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## RangeMaster

Another milestone achieved by our scientests..... ....
Congratulations to the armed forces of Pakistan.Most awaited news finally came.Somepeople feeling butthurt somewhere in our east.Nuclear triad completed. Well done Pakistan

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## Grevion

Hassan Guy said:


> View attachment 367169





Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> Lol Indian trolls are coming . But u should research before trolling . Babur is copy of US Tomhawk. so , ur China rant will not work here .


I was just trying trolling you guys. I'm not very good at it. Anyways congrats! Hope we will never see the day when we actually use our missiles against each other.

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## abdulbarijan

After this test ... We Pakistanis be like

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## Hassan Guy

Zarvan said:


> I am here Sir G I was busy posting this news on Indian Defence forums waiting for there reaction to come. It would be fun to see there reaction. I commented on page 1 on forum. It's big news time to increase the speed of work on submarines we are getting from China


Bro, please link that indian site.


----------



## Falcon26

wasileo80 said:


> In-fact he might referred that bigger boats will need for SLBM. But for Cruise Missile yes PN used torpedo tubes and i am sure that coming new S20 will come with the long range babur CM which can be fired from torpedo tubes of S20.
> So yes TRIAD has completed with the today's babur test fired.
> And in my opinion PNSF will go with long range SLCM on their submarines and all future submarines fleet will be equiped with AIP. So to some extend the need of SLBM will overruled.



SLBM is a luxury Pakistan doesn't need for decades. It prudently followed the Israeli model of utilizing sub launched LACM to complete the traid rather than waste billions in SLBM which then take decades to operationalize and mature. It says a lot that this LACM was launched just few weeks after India's failed LACM test. That the accuracy was shown was the icing for Pakistanis lol

Pakistan needs to now work on MIRV & military satellites and progressively increase the range to at least 1500km.

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## Pandora

Grevion said:


> Thank you China!



We welcome first Hindian here who is in need of burnol. Burnol day do mar na jaye sar sar kay.

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## TaimiKhan

Grevion said:


> Thank you China!



Such arse burning comments earn you a straight ban.

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## Burhan Wani

Grevion said:


> I was just trying trolling you guys. I'm not very good at it. Anyways congrats! Hope we will never see the day when we actually use our missiles against each other.


We don't have such intentions. Peace.

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Grevion said:


> I was just trying trolling you guys. I'm not very good at it. Anyways congrats! Hope we will never see the day when we actually use our missiles against each other.


try harder friend . u cant get help from your fellow country men expert in trolling .


----------



## friendly_troll96

Jonah Arthur said:


> You made my day. Kill me guys.


samnay ao iskay: 
mar gaye tuo btana.

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## Zarvan

Hassan Guy said:


> Bro, please link that indian site.


Due to rules of this forum if I would post the link of that forum here it won't work contact me on facebook or twitter


----------



## Burhan Wani

TaimiKhan said:


> Such arse burning comments earn you a straight ban.


One Lion heart moderator. Proud on you.

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## Burhan Wani

friendly_troll96 said:


> samnay ao iskay:
> mar gaye tuo btana.


I want death not humiliation.
This is 50 cal man.

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## hussain0216

YousufSSG said:


> Fucki** Troll ! ? please someone give this Indian some Burnol .....



Let them!

Let them mock!

Let them lie and joke!

To quote an indian 

*First they ignore you
Then they laugh at you
Then they fight you
Then you win!
*
We will keep building and improving and our enemies can suck it!

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## friendly_troll96

abdulbarijan said:


> After this test ... We Pakistanis be like







@Mentee 
spot wajsal in this gif

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## Hassan Guy

Dean Winchester said:


> Range is less than BrahMos!!!
> I though Babur had a longer range


LOL negative rating in less than 1 minute


----------



## hussain0216

Dean Winchester said:


> Range is less than BrahMos!!!
> I though Babur had a longer range



Dont worry

This is a test 

1000km and 1500km coming up

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## Burhan Wani

Dean Winchester said:


> Range is less than BrahMos!!!
> I though Babur had a longer range


Your condition is like that child. Distract others to get more marks and say, "Mere tumhare se ziada number hein:.

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Dean Winchester said:


> Range is less than BrahMos!!!
> I though Babur had a longer range


450KM is less than 290 . Patriotism has blinded all Indians .

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## Burhan Wani

Hassan Guy said:


> LOL negative rating in less than 1 minute


Bahi i saw immediate ban of Indian member first time in my PDF era.
Aaj to moderators ka style hi aur hei, batein hi aur hein.



friendly_troll96 said:


> @Mentee
> spot wajsal in this gif


White shirt?

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## Cool_Soldier

Really wonderful progress.
Accept my heartiest congrats guys.

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## af_brat

Is the missile nuclear-capable
(This is just amazing, take that Indians).

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## friendly_troll96

Jonah Arthur said:


> One Lion heart moderator. Proud on you.


love this mod (TaimiKhan)
except when he bans me.

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## Dean Winchester

Based on the ISPR release it has no seeker either which means no anti shipping capabilities:


> Babur-3 SLCM incorporates state of the art technologies including underwater controlled propulsion and advanced guidance and navigation features, duly augmented by Global Navigation, Terrain and Scene Matching Systems. The missile features terrain hugging and sea skimming flight capabilities to evade hostile radars and air defenses, in addition to certain stealth technologies, in an emerging regional Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) environment.


----------



## truthseeker2010

@pakistanipower


----------



## raihans

range doesn't matter at this moment, the matter is Alhamdulillah we have new platform, range will be increased as the program will progress inshaAllah

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## Pandora

Dean Winchester said:


> Range is less than BrahMos!!!
> I though Babur had a longer range



First of all this is a test to access the capability of missile. This range has been reduced intentionally to accomodate more missiles in submarine. Secondly Brahmos has range of 290km as of now you cant count something that is in a design phase. So stop your mental masturbations and use burnol.

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## Burhan Wani

@Imran Khan Mehfile Shabab aur Sharab ka intezam kia jae.

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## Dean Winchester

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> 450KM is less than 290 . Patriotism has blinded all Indians .


BrahMos range has now been revealed to be 600 km.

@smuhs1


----------



## MystryMan

Terrific news and congrats to all my countrymen!

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## Burhan Wani

smuhs1 said:


> First of all this is a test to access the capability of missile. This range has been reduced intentionally to accomodate more missiles in submarine. Secondly Brahmos has range of 290km as of now you cant count something that is in a design phase. So stop your mental masturbations and use burnol.


If we were on Twitter this word "burnol" will become Hash tag.

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Dean Winchester said:


> Based on the ISPR release it has no seeker either which means no anti shipping capabilities:


my friend improvements will be made with passage of time . just compare the Babur tested in 2005 and Babur of today . Don't take it on heart .

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## SSGcommandoPAK

Dean Winchester said:


> Range is less than BrahMos!!!
> I though Babur had a longer range



Have some please !

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## Manidabest

Baybars Han said:


> Does this mean Pakistan can have a sea based nuclear detterent? Can you put a nuclear warhead on it? If this is done, the only thing left I think is working towards ICBM.



nuc subs and icbms


----------



## Men in Green

Our neighbors reaction after reading this news.

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## YeBeWarned

This Test comes out of Nowhere , which make me not just happy but i cant help but wonder that , Pakistan must have carry this Technology in covers for some time .. waiting for the Opportunity Moment to test it and so we did .. for people worried about Range , 450KM is more than enough for now, but i do believe that its just stated range under which the Missile Hit with 101% precision .. and for those who wants to know that we have 2nd or 3rd Strike Capability , so we Shaheen , Gauri series are BM Launch from Land and Mobile TEL's , than Comes RAA'D Nuclear Capable Air Launch CM with Range of 350 KM ( Mirage III/V ROSE ) , and now Babur 3 with Range of 450 KM Launch from a Submarine , we now have Achieved Nuclear Triad .. Its Time to Thank our Scientist , Army Strategic Command and above All Allah SWT for giving us Strength .. This New Really made My Day 
@Khafee you were right all along Brother

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## friendly_troll96

Jonah Arthur said:


> Bahi i saw immediate ban of Indian member first time in my PDF era.
> Aaj to moderators ka style hi aur hei, batein hi aur hein.
> 
> 
> White shirt?


wrong answer sorry

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## __Jihadi__

Hitting the target with absolute precision

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## Men in Green

When modi heard a news 






lol

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Dean Winchester said:


> BrahMos range has now been revealed to be 600 km.
> 
> @smuhs1


then Congratulation Friend .By the way , no one knows the real range of Babur too .


----------



## Imran Khan

Jonah Arthur said:


> @Imran Khan Mehfile Shabab aur Sharab ka intezam kia jae.


astaghfirullah its haram to drink sir 






andheera hony ka wait kareen sab mily ga

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## Burhan Wani

Men in Green said:


> Our neighbors reaction after reading this news.


No they are not that civilized. Typical Indian version of rona dhona is epic.

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## wasileo80

Hassan Guy said:


> Not necessarily.


Yes not necessarily but it depends on many factors and threat perception.
1- To use SLBM we need bigger boats and bigger boats will need more power so you will need SSBN which will put a big financial impact on PN.
2- For current scenario, Augosta 90B and new submarines will have the range that they can station on any point around whole Indian coast line and at a safe distance from indian shores to terrorized the enemy.
So the SSBN or SSN (Nuclear Attack submarines) are less likely to be part of PNSFC. But it can happen who knows


----------



## Burhan Wani

Imran Khan said:


> astaghfirullah its haram to drink sir
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> andheera hony ka wait kareen sab mily ga


Hahaahahaha. You are real champ.

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## TaimiKhan

Dean Winchester said:


> BrahMos range has now been revealed to be 600 km.
> 
> @smuhs1



Bye Bye

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## wasileo80

Falcon26 said:


> SLBM is a luxury Pakistan doesn't need for decades. It prudently followed the Israeli model of utilizing sub launched LACM to complete the traid rather than waste billions in SLBM which then take decades to operationalize and mature. It says a lot that this LACM was launched just few weeks after India's failed LACM test. That the accuracy was shown was the icing for Pakistanis lol
> 
> Pakistan needs to now work on MIRV & military satellites and progressively increase the range to at least 1500km.


Agreed!


----------



## Pandora

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> then Congratulation Friend .By the way , no one knows the real range of Babur too .



Dont comgratulate him yet as he is refering to new version which hasnt even passed conceptual stage yet. He is just buthurt so let him be and present him burnol .


----------



## punit

Jonah Arthur said:


> No they are not that civilized. Typical Indian version of rona dhona is epic.


enjoy the moment ,... why wasting it on meaningless things !


----------



## friendly_troll96

Jonah Arthur said:


> @Imran Khan Mehfile *Shabab* aur Sharab ka intezam kia jae.


sharab haram hai. hmaray leay sirf shabab order kariyo. bas zra garam ho.


----------



## Burhan Wani

punit said:


> enjoy the moment ,... why wasting it on meaningless things !


I just.. You know what i mean.


----------



## YeBeWarned

TaimiKhan said:


> Bye Bye



Thank you @TaimiKhan Please keep the trolls away 


Does anyone Notice that US commander in Afghanistan is in Pakistan for a Visit

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## Men in Green

Jonah Arthur said:


> No they are not that civilized. Typical Indian version of rona dhona is epic.



you mean by this lol

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

smuhs1 said:


> Dont comgratulate him yet as he is refering to new version which hasnt even passed conceptual stage yet. He is just buthurt so let him be and present him burnol .


I cant do that sir . yesterday I received warning from mod . That is why , I am behaving in very civilized manner . otherwise u know that

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## Burhan Wani

friendly_troll96 said:


> sharab haram hai. hmaray leay sirf shabab order kariyo. bas zra garam ho.


Oh no. I was just joking with brother Imran. You become serious man.

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## Imran Khan

friendly_troll96 said:


> sharab haram hai. hmaray leay sirf shabab order kariyo. bas zra garam ho.


main apko broker lagta hoon ?











kiny pesy hai ne jaib ich ?

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## friendly_troll96

Imran Khan said:


> main apko broker lagta hoon ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kiny pesy hai ne jaib ich ?


----------



## Imran Khan



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## MadDog

Congrats everyone , Most important test conducted since 1998, achieved second strike capability necessary for Nuclear Balance of Power & our survival

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## Imran Khan



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## Devil Soul

friendly_troll96 said:


> sharab haram hai. hmaray leay sirf shabab order kariyo. bas zra garam ho.


Shabab is used for boys in arabic speaking communities.... .... 
i think u read Shabab as Kabab...

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## TaimiKhan

*For Pak Members:*

*Plz enjoy the moment. Don't waste it in trolling or commenting on what the neighbor is thinking or doing. *

*Some good Indian members did congratulate, not all are same. *

*So plz don't make this good story into another trash thread. *

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## fitpOsitive

When will we get any news about Supersonic/Ultrasonic missile(s) ?


----------



## punit

Jonah Arthur said:


> I just.. You know what i mean.


come on except one lone guy .. Indians have either congratulated on this or stayed away from thread. so let us not escalate it in negatived direction. its a big moment for Pakistani scientist and leadership.

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## Burhan Wani

Men in Green said:


> you mean by this lol


No this.

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Dil rakhne ko Ghalib khayal hi kafi hai . whereas on indian forum , Indians are chanting slogans of peace and saying there will no war .

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## friendly_troll96

Jonah Arthur said:


> Oh no. I was just joking with brother Imran. You become serious man.


me too was joking. 
sharab haram hai tuo shabab b tuo hram hai.


----------



## Blue Marlin

congrats, you guys launched a slcm before india, thats an achievement in its own.

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## Skywalker

Grevion said:


> Thank you China!


Burn indiot burn.


----------



## Flash_Ninja

Wow, great moment.

Sea based missiles will give our navy an edge over many others.

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## fitpOsitive

Devil Soul said:


> *Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor* ‏@OfficialDGISPR  5m5 minutes ago
> #Pakistan successfully test fired first Submarine launched Cruise Missile Babur-3. Rg 450 Km. #COAS congrats Nation and the team involved.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818427713627295745


Babur missile chalta aisy hai jaisy hamla kernay nahi enjoy kernay ja raha ho.....pursakoon

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## YeBeWarned

@Oscar @Horus @WebMaster @Zaki Please Make a Separate Thread in Pakistan Strategic Missiles Section for Babur -3 Submarine Launch Cruise Missile

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## Burhan Wani

fitpOsitive said:


> When will we get any news about Supersonic/Ultrasonic missile(s) ?


Hmm you really want it. Then make universities, research institutes and spend more on education. You will surely get all of them and beyond.

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Delusion of Indian Naval Blockade is now Blockdead . I think it is now the other way round .

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## Tipu7

Areesh said:


> Where are the boys at this big news??
> 
> @Windjammer @DESERT FIGHTER @Tipu7 @Zarvan


Yr I am preparing for exam 
But still over joyed with this news.
I was repeatedly mocked by Indians on PDF about existence of Torpedo Launched Babur Cruise Missile. They used to say how you will fit such large missile in torpdo tube? How will you reduce its size? you don't have this capability & 
I wish if I can find them now and see their faces ........ 

@Bratva so Maritime warning was not bluff ........

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## Hassan Guy

Blue Marlin said:


> congrats, you guys launched a slcm before india, thats an achievement in its own.


??????
Indian cruise missiles don't even work


----------



## Syed Asif Bukhari

SirHatesALot said:


> Congrats now Pakistan should work on SLBM with at-least 10000km range


Now Indians first need to work on SLCM with range of even 100 KM .

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## Hassan Guy

SirHatesALot said:


> Congrats now Pakistan should work on SLBM with at-least 10000km range


Now Indians should build a cruise missile that actually works.

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## friendly_troll96

Devil Soul said:


> Shabab is used for boys in arabic speaking communities.... ....
> i think u read Shabab as Kabab...


i ain't no arbi yara. i don't go by their interpretations.


----------



## fitpOsitive

Jonah Arthur said:


> Hmm you really want it. Then make universities, research institutes and spend more on education. You will surely get all of them and beyond.


I 100% agree with you, but can we expect that from Nawaz sharif and his team? People like Dr Atta ur Rehman can now die in exile..ignored and helpless.

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## SirHatesALot

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> Now Indians first need to work on SLCM with range of even 100 KM .


we already have slcm

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

SirHatesALot said:


> we already have slcm


then test it and don't tell me about Brahmos shit .

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## Burhan Wani

fitpOsitive said:


> I 100% agree with you, but can we expect that from Nawaz sharif and his team? People like Dr Atta ur Rehman can now die in exile..ignored and helpless.


Make PHD compulsory for all MNA, MPA seats. Then see the difference.
If Nawaz was that educated i am sure we were not at that place.

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## Peaceful Civilian

TaimiKhan said:


> Bye Bye


Hath hola rakho bhaie.


----------



## SirHatesALot

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> then test it and don't tell me about Brahmos shit .


Brahmos is our SLCM


----------



## Burhan Wani

ashok321 said:


> Unsubstantiated Indian surgical strike got leveled with actual footage of Pakistani, nuclear capable SLCM.


@TaimiKhan Your pray.

@friendly_troll96 Use .50 cal round now. Fire for impact.

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## The Eagle

ashok321 said:


> Unsubstantiated Indian surgical strike got leveled with actual footage of Pakistani, nuclear capable SLCM.




Give it a rest which is not a reality at all, unsubstantiated is different than that so-called strike. Actually, SLCM raised the bar more high. Or you have any substance to your comment....


----------



## Burhan Wani

@DESERT FIGHTER Where are you guys. I miss you.
@save_ghenda @The Sandman @The Deterrent @Moonlight @Zibago @django

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

SirHatesALot said:


> Brahmos is our SLCM


SLCM means Submarine-launched cruise missile and when was Brahmos launched from Submarine ? Don't delude yourself .


----------



## FunkyGen

Allah U Akbar 
Pakistan ZindaBad!

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## Director General

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> then test it and don't tell me about Brahmos shit .


Since you ask:
https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/2bhrqv/underwater_brahmos_missile_launch/


----------



## PWFI

Jonah Arthur said:


> Make PHD compulsory for all MNA, MPA seats. Then see the difference.
> If Nawaz was that educated i am sure we were not at that place.


Then these rascals will say "degree degree hoti, Asli ho ya nakli"

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Director General said:


> Since you ask:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/2bhrqv/underwater_brahmos_missile_launch/


what a f*** source . u call it source . Provide me official account of IN about launch and also its video . thanks .


----------



## Burhan Wani

PWFI said:


> Then these rascals will say "degree degree hoti, Asli ho ya nakli"


Make HEC powerful like our defence forces. Things will work.

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## Hassan Guy

Brahmos to be launched from a submarine needs VLS, like on the Amur-class sub

(I thought that too of the Babur, but they made it work somehow - still don't know how tho.)


----------



## Burhan Wani

Hassan Guy said:


> Brahmos to be launched from a submarine needs VLS, like on the Amur-class sub
> 
> (I thought that too of the Babur, but they made it work somehow - still don't know how tho.)


I have doubt over platform.
It can be special platform made only for test purposes.


----------



## Naara-e-Mastana

Mubarak ho mubarak ho ..
india ko bhi mubarak ho Abbu agaye ..
.
.
Admin is hi khushi may meri joey tribiani id unbanned karr do ..

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## Peaceful Civilian

Babur cruise missile program is going in right direction, we can see improvements every year, We got excellent start by successful test from submarine platform, I said many times, New 8 submarines will play very important role for defense , and it will possess big threat to enemy, Just we should make sure we get submarines with VLS, its possible in future we test ballistic missile from submarine.

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## Hassan Guy

Then again they never said which sub fired it.

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## Devil Soul

friendly_troll96 said:


> i ain't no arbi yara. i don't go by their interpretations.


hahha... OK .... lets have some fun


----------



## Hassan Guy

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Babur cruise missile program is going in right direction, we can see improving every year, We got excellent start by successful test from submarine platform, I said many times, New 8 submarines will play very important role for defense , and it will possess big threat to enemy, Just we should make sure we get submarines with VLS, its possible in future we test ballistic missile from submarine. Our next step should be MIRV Technology in Babur missile program.


Agree with the SLBM part, I don't think cruise missiles are MIRV capable.


----------



## Syed Asif Bukhari

Hassan Guy said:


> Then again they never said which sub fired it.


How many options u have got ? Agosta 90 or Agosta 70 . But Agosta 70 is very old . so it is surely Agosta 90B


----------



## Peaceful Civilian

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> Delusion of Indian Naval Blockade is now Blockdead . I think it is now the other way round .


Not possible now, we should get medium range And long range SAMS, which is very important part of defense we lacking lot. Our first priority should be fast attack boats with medium range SAMS otherwise don't waste funds on fast attack boats without medium range SAMS


----------



## Abu Zolfiqar

Alhamdolillah. A great achievement. Good work navy!

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## imadul

Devil Soul said:


>


Range is flexible so it is good that way, keep it under.

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Director General said:


> Could be an underwater pontoon.


give me credible source or get lost . that's it .


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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Not possible now, we should get medium range And long range SAMS, which is very important part of defense we lacking lot. Our first priority should be fast attack boats with medium range SAMS otherwise don't waste funds on fast attack boats without medium range SAMS


but it is very much neutralized and will be completely neutralized with acquisition of 8 submarines.

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## ashok321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818458453987520512

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## friendly_troll96

Jonah Arthur said:


> @TaimiKhan Your pray.
> 
> @friendly_troll96 Use .50 cal round now. Fire for impact.


you want me to aim at the indian so i become TimiKhan's prey?


----------



## Areesh

Director General said:


> Could be an underwater pontoon.



ISPR has clearly said it was a submarine.


----------



## Syed Asif Bukhari

Guynextdoor2 said:


> So....can you guys tell me...is there a Chinese missile with similar characteristics...I mean only for comparison purposes  research and stuff......


Sir u are Elite member and still trolling . u should research before trolling . Since , it is well known fact that Babur is copy of US Tomehawk , so China Rant will not work here.

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## friendly_troll96

Devil Soul said:


> hahha... OK .... lets have some fun


okay. 3, 2, 1....fun:

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## friendly_troll96

Bhasad Singh Mundi said:


> hehehe ye kulbhusan wale ne banaya hai ya submarine wale ne?


chai walay ne.

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## Guynextdoor2

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> Sir u are Elite member and still trolling . u should research before trolling . Since , it is well known fact that Babur is copy of US Tomehawk , so China Rant will not work her.



Sir I was asking for educational purposes


----------



## Burhan Wani

Guynextdoor2 said:


> So....can you guys tell me...is there a Chinese missile with similar characteristics...I mean only for comparison purposes  research and stuff......


You can compare it with Tomahawk.


----------



## WaLeEdK2

The accuracy is amazing. 2017 is off to a good start

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## Hassan Guy

Guynextdoor2 said:


> Sir I was asking for educational purposes


Only 4-5 countries have SLCM's 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine-launched_cruise_missile

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## Burhan Wani

ashok321 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818458453987520512


Too close man.

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## cranwerkhan

we need to send truck of burnol to khaleej times (indian times) office in dubai

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## Burhan Wani

friendly_troll96 said:


> you want me to aim at the indian so i become TimiKhan's prey?


Taimi Khan is your spotter and you are firer.




cranwerkhan said:


> we need to send truck of burnol to khaleej times (indian times) office in dubai


These Khaleej time should be punished. Spanked, drilled and then drowned.

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## ito

It is natural that after India testing so many missiles, Pakistan will test when too. Anyway seem a good missile.

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## Hassan Guy

Hopefully the upcoming submarines have VLS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Navy_SSP_programme

Similar to the Amur class https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amur-class_submarine

For a dedicated sea based deterrent.



ito said:


> It is natural that after India testing so many missiles, Pakistan will test when too. Anyway seem a good missile.


Well, not all the Indian tests worked unfortunately....

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## friendly_troll96

Jonah Arthur said:


> Taimi Khan is your spotter and you are firer.


and you're the popcorn guy 

actually i'm scared of the spotter


----------



## TOPGUN

Outstanding news, much waited for congrats to the armed forces and the whole nation !!

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## ito

Hassan Guy said:


> Hopefully the upcoming submarines have VLS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Navy_SSP_programme
> 
> Similar to the Amur class https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amur-class_submarine
> 
> For a dedicated sea based deterrent.
> 
> 
> Well, not all the Indian tests worked unfortunately....



Let us not bring India here. Enjoy the moment. Anyway congrats.

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## Sloth 22

Congratulations.



Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> then test it and don't tell me about Brahmos shit .



Submarine Launched Klubs.
4 Kilos have been upgraded to use it, rest in process.

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## Burhan Wani

friendly_troll96 said:


> and you're the popcorn guy
> 
> actually i'm scared of the spotter


He has stars on shoulder. You should be. But what will we do for the poop did by Khaleej times?

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## Hassan Guy

Sloth 22 said:


> Congratulations.
> 
> 
> 
> Submarine Launched Klubs.
> 4 Kilos have been upgraded to use it, rest in process.


Still running on diesel electric propulsion on them Kilos?

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## ghauri05

riz1978 said:


> Namshkaar , sary note bhi band kar diay phir bhi pakistan na daboki sa mijjile fire kar dia ..hahahaaaa


indian channels right now
Pak ne apni pan dubi se rachi aik r napak sajish

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## Dazzler

Khafee said:


> When you give bad news to a heart patient, it is in very slow doses. A big dose could be detrimental.



That's true, the range was reduced for the test only. in general characteristics, it's very close to the ground launch version. Can carry convention and, ehm, unconventional warheads.

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## Director General

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> Sir u are Elite member and still trolling . u should research before trolling . Since , it is well known fact that Babur is copy of US Tomehawk , so China Rant will not work her.


Since you brought in Tomahawk, do remember the tomahawk which crash landed was destroyed 


> Retired Lt. Gen. Thomas G. McInerney said he doubted the Pakistani claims. When cruise missiles crash, he said, "its like dropping a Waterford crystal glass. They are designed to do a lot of things, but they aren't designed to bounce. They are very fragile." What did not break apart on impact would probably have been burned by the missile's fuel which would ignite on impact, he said.



Anyways this Associated Press video from 1998 crash site makes it clear the tomahawk missile was in bits and pieces.
An eyewitness also confirms the same.

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## Hassan Guy

Dazzler said:


> ehm, unconventional warheads.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_bomb


----------



## Burhan Wani

Moonlight said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154537425462663


At 0.24 my heart beat suddenly stopped for a moment. Congratulations. You should put your efforts to provide us some lethal chemical solution for our submarine launched platform.

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## saiyan0321

Massive news. So on this day our nuclear triad is complete and our second strike capability is completely secured. We have been waiting for this for a long and kudos to the research team for their dedicated hard work that has paid off. The US thought a but of sanctions would stop us. We have always excelled when sanctions came into the game. This has boosted our capabilities multiplefold. The research is in the right direction. Increased range, accuracy and MIRV should be the next step. But for now once again congrats bros.

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## Riz

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> Lol Indian trolls are coming . But u should research before trolling . Babur is copy of US Tomhawk. so , ur China rant will not work here .





Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> Sir u are Elite member and still trolling . u should research before trolling . Since , it is well known fact that Babur is copy of US Tomehawk , so China Rant will not work here.


 Tell him to google agni is a copy of scout rocket


----------



## imadul

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> SLCM means Submarine-launched cruise missile and when was Brahmos launched from Submarine ? Don't delude yourself .


In sanskarit, they mean sub-surface..
From underground, a cave, a grave, a shamshan ghat. They may launch from any of these exotic places.

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## Director General

Hassan Guy said:


> Still running on diesel electric propulsion on them Kilos?


Your Agosta-90B are diesel electric too.

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## ISI-1

الله اكبر، الحمدلله، سبحان الله

Mubarakbãd to all Pakistani brethen. May ALLAH AoJ protect all in Pakistan and beyond, ãmiin.


----------



## Hassan Guy

saiyan0321 said:


> Massive news. So on this day our nuclear triad is complete and our second strike capability is completely secured. We have been waiting for this for a long and kudos to the research team for their dedicated hard work that has paid off. The US thought a but of sanctions would stop us. We have always excelled when sanctions came into the game. This has boosted our capabilities multiplefold. The research is in the right direction. Increased range, accuracy and MIRV should be the next step. But for now once again congrats bros.


I think MIRV is for SLBM's only not SLCM's.


----------



## Samlee

AMCA said:


> Why do you think we are necessary here?



*For Our Entertainment *

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## sohailbutt1987

Congrats to PAKISTAN.

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## Sloth 22

Hassan Guy said:


> Still running on diesel electric propulsion on them Kilos?



We have had recent ASW exercises with USN. 

Kilos [Older 877EKMs ] have impressed again , and talks are on for a couple more.


----------



## Director General

saiyan0321 said:


> Massive news. So on this day our nuclear triad is complete and our second strike capability is completely secured. We have been waiting for this for a long and kudos to the research team for their dedicated hard work that has paid off. The US thought a but of sanctions would stop us. We have always excelled when sanctions came into the game. This has boosted our capabilities multiplefold. The research is in the right direction. Increased range, accuracy and MIRV should be the next step. But for now once again congrats bros.


Your nuclear triad is complete after only one test???
You need at least 5-6 tests to declare a missile ready for induction.


----------



## xyxmt

monitor said:


> I am not seeing any Indian members here where are they ??



because missile hit the target with "Surgical" precision

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## Lucky Breeze



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## saiyan0321

Hassan Guy said:


> I think MIRV is for SLBM's only not SLCM's.



Meant for our entire missile research programs. .

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## Samlee

punit said:


> Babur is turning out be great success story for Pakistan. We hope some thing similar for Nirbhay.



* I Thought Nirbhay Was Being Closed*


----------



## ISI-1

rana MRL said:


> Pakistan nuclear triad completed ...



Say ALHUMDULILLAH akhi!

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## xyxmt

Director General said:


> Your nuclear triad is complete after only one test???
> You need at least 5-6 tests to declare a missile ready for induction.



thats because you dont know how Pakistani forces works, It probably already inducted just releasing the news now

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## Director General

Samlee said:


> * I Thought Nirbhay Was Being Closed*


Nope.
It has been extended.
It is not a hurry for military as BrahMos with 600 km range is sufficient.


----------



## G0dfather

Congrats, hope that this wil never be used in future.

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## mfhtoor

rana MRL said:


> Babur v2 range is 700 km ,,, Babur SLCM has 450 km range ,, any senior member explain the reduction in range,,, answer welcome...


Well tubes from which missile was launched could definently be reason so as soon as we get the sub's with bigger tube's we I'll see increasement in range


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## Director General

xyxmt said:


> thats because you dont know how Pakistani forces works, It probably already inducted just releasing the news now


Missile tests especially over sea are impossible to hide(unless you conduct tests in Arctic).
You will have to issue Notams for every test.


----------



## imadul

Sloth 22 said:


> Congratulations.
> 
> 
> 
> Submarine Launched Klubs.
> 4 Kilos have been upgraded to use it, rest in process.


But u need be careful, 2 subs blasted already...
But who cares....

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## Moonlight

Woke up with this excellent news. Alhumdulillah for taking another big step forward to face any shortcoming or enemies. Amazing start of 2017 and InshAllah a lot more to come. 


Congratulations to all of you. 


*Pakistan Zindabad *

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## Sloth 22

Samlee said:


> * I Thought Nirbhay Was Being Closed*


Extension granted.


----------



## Sloth 22

imadul said:


> But u need be careful, 2 subs blasted already...
> But who cares....



2?


----------



## Hassan Guy

Director General said:


> Your Agosta-90B are diesel electric too.


They are powered by AIP system.


----------



## Moonlight

Jonah Arthur said:


> At 0.24 my heart beat suddenly stopped for a moment. Congratulations. You should put your efforts to provide us some lethal chemical solution for our submarine launched platform.



I started my day with this video. It couldn't be better.

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## xyxmt

Director General said:


> Missile tests especially over sea are impossible to hide(unless you conduct tests in Arctic).
> You will have to issue Notams for every test.



yes you do, but in one Notam you can do many tests from many platforms

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## Moonlight

Jonah Arthur said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER Where are you guys. I miss you.
> @save_ghenda @The Sandman @The Deterrent @Moonlight @Zibago @django



Here I am now. I was sleeping.



-----

I don't see my neighbors. Please congeulate us. Have a big heart.

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## Kambojaric

Wow, this takes our nuclear deterrence to the next level! Well done to all the scientists who worked on this project. You made the nation proud. Suddenly sanctions from a certain nation make sense

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## Naara-e-Mastana

IceCold said:


> I have another question? Can it be related somehow to Chinese threat to India that they wont sit idle? Just a thought for saying out loud.



Maybe . as we know the more aggressive india play more excuses we got to test lethal weapons which we avoid to test normally  .


----------



## Director General

xyxmt said:


> yes you do, but in one Notam you can do many tests from many platforms


Not really.
After every Pakistani NOTAM India deploys ELINT/SIGINT units of Do-228 & Tu-142M


----------



## Dazzler

Starlord said:


> This Test comes out of Nowhere , which make me not just happy but i cant help but wonder that , Pakistan must have carry this Technology in covers for some time .. waiting for the Opportunity Moment to test it and so we did .. for people worried about Range , 450KM is more than enough for now, but i do believe that its just stated range under which the Missile Hit with 101% precision .. and for those who wants to know that we have 2nd or 3rd Strike Capability , so we Shaheen , Gauri series are BM Launch from Land and Mobile TEL's , than Comes RAA'D Nuclear Capable Air Launch CM with Range of 350 KM ( Mirage III/V ROSE ) , and now Babur 3 with Range of 450 KM Launch from a Submarine , we now have Achieved Nuclear Triad .. Its Time to Thank our Scientist , Army Strategic Command and above All Allah SWT for giving us Strength .. This New Really made My Day
> @Khafee you were right all along Brother



It's Zubair Mehmood Hayat who is urging things up a bit. The man headed SPD for a long time after all.

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## Zarvan

Dazzler said:


> It's Zubair Mehmood Hayat who is urging things up a bit. The headed SPD for a long time after all.


I was expecting this after he became head Pakistan will reveal most of its Missile Arsenal and tests lot of new Missiles.

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## imadul

Sloth 22 said:


> 2?


Two accidents on ins sindhurtuna.
And 
orpedo compartment of the submarine INS Sindhurakshak..
And so may others in frigates...really long list...

But who cares, keep it up.

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## Burhan Wani

Moonlight said:


> Here I am now. I was sleeping.
> 
> 
> 
> -----
> 
> I don't see my neighbors. Please congeulate us. Have a big heart.


Yea some of them emerged in this thread like flies attack towards cake. But one lion heart moderator Taimikhan immediately banned them. Don't worry i am here to stop this thread from all intruders across east, west and south west.

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## YeBeWarned

Dazzler said:


> It's Zubair Mehmood Hayat who is urging things up a bit. The headed SPD for a long time after all.



when i first saw this news, I literally Laugh because of 2 reasons ..
1- US Sanctions on 7 Companies which they put recently
2- US Commander in Afghanistan is in Pakistan for a Visit ,

The timing of this Test is very very Significant 

bro , any Idea if they have had to make some Changes in the Aerodynamics of the Missile ? as they have to Launch it from torpedo Tubes ..

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## Burhan Wani

Moonlight said:


> I started my day with this video. It couldn't be better.


I was stunned when i see this news. PDF provide us joys and happiness seldom.

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## Tank131

This is great news... I did say something big was coming just a week back when US sanctioned 7 Pakistani institutions involved in Missile development amd was prove correct! Congratulations to Pakistan and her scientists! 

If this was launched from A90B then you will see a quick rise in its range when S20s arrive (larger tube equals larger missile means better range). Either way Pakistan should now work to increase the range to ~1500km. Even originally, Babur range was 500km, so I see this happening relatively quickly. 

One miscalculation Obama administration may have made with such sanctions is it no longer gives Pakistan incentives to not increase missile range

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## Hassan Guy

USA 
Russia
South Korea
Israel(not confirmed)
And now Pakistan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine-launched_cruise_missile

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## Sloth 22

imSindhuratna 9092199 said:


> Two accidents on ins sindhurtuna.
> And
> orpedo compartment of the submarine INS Sindhurakshak..
> And so may others in frigates...really long list...
> 
> But who cares, keep it up.



Well INS Sindhuratna is still operational. 

Lessons are learnt from mistakes and rectification implemented.


----------



## Moonlight

Jonah Arthur said:


> Yea some of them emerged in this thread like flies attack towards cake. But one lion heart moderator Taimikhan immediately banned them. Don't worry i am here to stop this thread from all intruders across east, west and south west.



Hahaha. Someone is paid? Lol

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## Mentee

friendly_troll96 said:


> @Mentee
> spot wajsal in this gif


Allah Akbar  

Ethy rakh malangi 
Leave him bro ,lets not spoil the party  @The Sandman @Doordie @tps77 @SherDil007 @The Eagle guys show your bhangra moves  Buraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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## ISI-1

xyxmt said:


> because missile hit the target with "Surgical" precision



You took the words right out of my mouth! And congratulations akhi on our success!

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Sloth 22 said:


> Congratulations.
> 
> 
> 
> Submarine Launched Klubs.
> 4 Kilos have been upgraded to use it, rest in process.


That means SLCM is not tested yet .Thanks for verification of my claims

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## Moonlight

Jonah Arthur said:


> I was stunned when i see this news. PDF provide us joys and happiness seldom.



Mostly I miss the live coverage of big news because of this time difference.

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## ISI-1

G0dfather said:


> Congrats, hope that this wil never be used in future.



It depends on the Zionist Hindu Indians and Zionists in general. But, we hope not.


----------



## Sloth 22

Hassan Guy said:


> USA
> Russia
> South Korea
> Israel(not confirmed)
> And now Pakistan
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine-launched_cruise_missile



Technically with Submarine Launched Exocet , Klubs and Harpoons,almost all nations which operate Submarines have " Submarine Launched Cruise Missile ".


----------



## Moonlight

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh Indians   

@django @Zibago @Hell hound @The Sandman @Jonah Arthur

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## Mentee

abdulbarijan said:


> After this test ... We Pakistanis be like


Itni khushi 

  Chuk k rakh  @Sarge @Djinn @war&peace @Maxpane @Morse_Code

Ethy rakh malangi 
Leave him bro ,lets not spoil the party  @The Sandman @Doordie @tps77 @SherDil007 @The Eagle guys show your bhangra moves  Buraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa



View attachment 367184

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## Burhan Wani

Moonlight said:


> Mostly I miss the live coverage of big news because of this time difference.


There should be movie and 60 minutes documentary on it. We will talk about it later. Stay blessed. Mom calling.


----------



## Sloth 22

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> That means SLCM is not tested yet .Thanks for verification of my claims



No Indian Origin SLCM is either in development or in active service as of today.

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## imadul

Great Pakistan now completed nuke triad as best. Smart option using 90B like israeli dolphin class for 2nd strike.
Time to increase efforts for an SSN for true long endurance and reach.
Strategic bomber may not be required, Pakistan wont be posturing globally.

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## Hassan Guy

Sloth 22 said:


> Technically with Submarine Launched Exocet , Klubs and Harpoons,almost all nations which operate Submarines have " Submarine Launched Cruise Missile ".


Countries that have developed them

AND if we go into NUCLEAR capable then the number is 3-4.


----------



## Taimoor Khan

punit said:


> congrats .. ! which platform was used to launch the Missile ? a pontoon or Actual Submarine?




Dont think you can drag a pantoon from Pakistani coastline bypassing Arabian sea and into Indian ocean and fire Babur 3 from there. I was fired from "mobile underwater platform" as per the news. Correct me if I am wrong, the Indian test of K series Russian missiles were done from static pantoons?

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## Naara-e-Mastana

!eon said:


> yes, of course



SLBM NEXT.


----------



## Hassan Guy

Sloth 22 said:


> No Indian Origin SLCM is either in development or in active service as of today.


That is true.



Naara-e-Mastana said:


> SLBM NEXT.


Hopefully, go back just a decade no one thought SLCM's would be fired from Pakistani subs


----------



## -blitzkrieg-

Today im proud to say Mr. Zaka is not just a great PN head and an awesome human being but also a good family friend .Power and glory to you and your team sir..

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## Moonlight

abdulbarijan said:


> After this test ... We Pakistanis be like



Find that crying girls from neighbors on that historical six by Afridi, only if you remember.

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## Director General

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> That means SLCM is not tested yet .Thanks for verification of my claims


All IN Kilos can fire 3M-54E starting since 2000


----------



## Moonlight

Jonah Arthur said:


> There should be movie and 60 minutes documentary on it. We will talk about it later. Stay blessed. Mom calling.



Do share the link. Thanks and have a great one.

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Director General said:


> Since you brought in Tomahawk, do remember the tomahawk which crash landed was destroyed
> 
> 
> Anyways this Associated Press video from 1998 crash site makes it clear the tomahawk missile was in bits and pieces.
> An eyewitness also confirms the same.


Whatever makes u happy kid . Hum to party krein gay.


----------



## sady

Masha Allah, some brilliant minds at work. Zara nam ho tu ye matti buhat zarkhez hai saaki. 

Only if our political elite is cleansed of traitors and short sighted selfish shit our country has all the ingredients to achieve greatness. Insha Allah

To India: paani ke andar se hawaa main jaakay 450 km ka faasla teh karkay chill sakkon main with no hurry ANDAR *GHUSS* KE MARAY GA

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## ISI-1

Hassan Guy said:


> USA
> Russia
> South Korea
> Israel(not confirmed)
> And now Pakistan
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine-launched_cruise_missile



Congratualtions to you on our success and say الحمدلله akhi!


----------



## Hassan Guy

Director General said:


> All IN Kilos can fire 3M-54E starting since 2000


?????The klub entered service in 2012


----------



## Syed Asif Bukhari

Director General said:


> All IN Kilos can fire 3M-54E starting since 2000


There is a difference b/w can fire and actually fire .

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## ISI-1

Jonah Arthur said:


> I was stunned when i see this news. PDF provide us joys and happiness seldom.



Say الحمدلله akhi on our success. And congratulations are in order!


----------



## CHACHA"G"

*Well done Pakistan , Well done Navy and team of scientists .
What a great way to start 2017.*




Khafee said:


> When you give bad news to a heart patient, it is in very slow doses. A big dose could be detrimental.


 
*Sir G I have Green Blood, There are many more reasons in our store rooms for sanctions from Our beloved Friend *



Rafi said:


> First official launch, Babur SLCM has been tested dozens of times, US Intel had become aware, leading to sanctions.
> 
> Range will be increased in time.
> 
> Military level Beido also verified.



*Its definitely first official launch, And range may be more then what they said (not much visual difference in Babur-2 and 3) But even 450km is hell of range .
But as I said above its not the only reason of sanction by USA, They already know we will build it. There is some thing else some thing big , some thing which they were not expecting from Us, As u say" Enough said"
And My Blood is Green ................. If your blood is Green to then u will surely understand the hidden meaning behind the USA sanctions 
*

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## Director General

Taimoor Khan said:


> Dont think you can drag a pantoon from Pakistani coastline bypassing Arabian sea and into Indian ocean and fire Babur 3 from there. I was fired from "mobile underwater platform" as per the news. Correct me if I am wrong, the Indian test of K series Russian missiles were done from static pantoons?


Arihant the only SSBN in south Asia has already fired K-series.


----------



## ISI-1

sady said:


> Masha Allah, some brilliant minds at work. Zara nam ho tu ye matti buhat zarkhez hai saaki.
> 
> Only if our political elite is cleansed of traitors and short sighted selfish shit our country has all the ingredients to achieve greatness. Insha Allah
> 
> To India: paani ke andar se hawaa main jaakay 450 km ka faasla teh karkay chill sakkon main with no hurry ANDAR *GHUSS* KE MARAY GA



الحمدلله and CONGRATULATIONS to all Pakistani brethren on our success.


----------



## YeBeWarned

Did someone Tag some of our Chinese and Turk Brothers ? 
@Chinese-Dragon @Beast @Deino @Sinan @Neptune @cabatli_53 @T-123456 @faithfulguy

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## Dazzler

Starlord said:


> when i first saw this news, I literally Laugh because of 2 reasons ..
> 1- US Sanctions on 7 Companies which they put recently
> 2- US Commander in Afghanistan is in Pakistan for a Visit ,
> 
> The timing of this Test is very very Significant
> 
> bro , any Idea if they have had to make some Changes in the Aerodynamics of the Missile ? as they have to Launch it from torpedo Tubes ..



yes, changes were made, quit a few of them.

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## Hassan Guy

Director General said:


> Arihant the only SSBN in south Asia has already fired K-series.


oh ye, that arihant SSBN is still sort of a problem

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## Director General

Hassan Guy said:


> ?????The klub entered service in 2012


Nope.
It entered service in 90s.


----------



## amir waqas

Is that mean pakistan got the counter atomic attack capability????


----------



## YeBeWarned

Dazzler said:


> yes, changes were made, quit a few of them.



will wait till more information is Available to our Senior members here  
bro , please make sure you put a word to Mods to create a separate Thread on Babur 3


----------



## Director General

Hassan Guy said:


> oh ye, that arihant SSBN is still sort of a problem


Fully operational now.
Cementing IN as most powerful navy to ever exist in history of south asia.


----------



## Hassan Guy

Director General said:


> Nope.
> It entered service in 90s.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M-54_Klub
Just following the sources


----------



## Director General

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> There is a difference b/w can fire and actually fire .


Sindhu class has fired Klub many times.
First time was in Baltic sea in 2002.


----------



## Hassan Guy

Director General said:


> Fully operational now.
> Cementing IN as most powerful navy to ever exist in history of south asia.


Yeah....

we haven't fully addressed that just yet


----------



## YeBeWarned

amir waqas said:


> Is that mean pakistan got the counter atomic attack capability????



WE can now Launch Nuclear Strike on our Enemy from 3 different Way .. Land Launch Ballistic Missiles , Air Launch RAAD Cruise Missile , and Finally Sea/Sub Launch Babur Cruise Missile

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## ISI-1

Director General said:


> Nope.
> It has been extended.
> It is not a hurry for military as BrahMos with 600 km range is sufficient.



But does the BramahputraMoscow function in entireity?

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## Dawood Ibrahim

Mentee said:


> Allah Akbar
> 
> Ethy rakh malangi
> Leave him bro ,lets not spoil the party  @The Sandman @Doordie @tps77 @SherDil007 @The Eagle guys show your bhangra moves  Buraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 367184

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## Areesh

Director General said:


> Fully operational now.
> Cementing IN as most powerful navy to ever exist in *history of south asia*.



LMAO history of South Asia. 

Only 2-3 countries have some kind of navy in south asia. You downgraded IN by saying that it is the most powerful navy in South Asia.

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## Director General

Hassan Guy said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M-54_Klub
> Just following the sources


Wrong.
Kalibr-NK entered service in 2012.


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Tebrikler!! Ve Ma Tevfiki Illa Billah...

Now Babur Han is all over the places - land, air and sea...

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## ashok321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818455783054581761


----------



## ghauri05

for further enhancing sea based deterrent the range of babur 3 should increase and which will with the time inshallah.

iwant to ask can shaheen 1A be considered for an SLBM ??it already has a range of 900km..opinions of senior members on this required

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## Moonlight

HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA


Torturing torturing yes it is torturing.  

@django @The Sandman @Zibago @Hell hound @The Eagle @Jonah Arthur

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## ISI-1

Moonlight said:


> Woke up with this excellent news. Alhumdulillah for taking another big step forward to face any shortcoming or enemies. Amazing start of 2017 and InshAllah a lot more to come.
> 
> 
> Congratulations to all of you.
> 
> 
> *Pakistan Zindabad *



CONGRATUALTION akhi on our success. Mau ALLAH AoJ shower Pakistan and all Muslims with His special mercy, ãmiin. This news has lifted my spirit sky high, الحمدلله

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## Hassan Guy

ashok321 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818455783054581761


Yup, it was a fully submerged launch, hopefully this program will help for a future SLBM project.

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## Hell hound

Moonlight said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh Indians
> 
> @django @Zibago @Hell hound @The Sandman @Jonah Arthur
> View attachment 367185





Moonlight said:


> HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA
> 
> 
> Torturing torturing yes it is torturing.
> 
> @django @The Sandman @Zibago @Hell hound @The Eagle @Jonah Arthur
> 
> View attachment 367189
> View attachment 367190
> View attachment 367191
> View attachment 367192
> View attachment 367193
> View attachment 367194
> View attachment 367195


if you are a fool don't turn other guys suspicion into certainty by opening your mouth


----------



## The Deterrent

Tidbits:

1. This marks the first completely successful test flight of Babur's SLCM variant. The system will require more test flights before it is ready for production and subsequent induction.
2. The test seems to have been conducted almost two weeks ago (27-28 Dec), when a corresponding Navigational Warning was issued. The reason for delaying public announcement is unclear at this moment.
3. The weapon was fired from a mobile underwater testing platform. No submarine was involved, however, I personally believe that Agosta-90Bs should be able to fire it from their standard 533mm torpedo tubes once the SLCM goes operational.
4. The range might be incorrectly mentioned as 450km for unknown reason(s). Since Babur-3 is the SLCM variant of Babur-2, both might have the same 650km strike range.

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## ISI-1

Areesh said:


> LMAO history of South Asia.
> 
> Only 2-3 countries have some kind of navy in south asia. You downgraded IN by saying that it is the most powerful navy in South Asia.



Hhhhh, don't tarnish the Zionist Hindu Indian low level mentality!
BTW, congratualtions on our success akhi!


----------



## Dazzler

Moonlight said:


> HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA
> 
> 
> Torturing torturing yes it is torturing.
> 
> @django @The Sandman @Zibago @Hell hound @The Eagle @Jonah Arthur
> 
> View attachment 367189
> View attachment 367190
> View attachment 367191
> View attachment 367192
> View attachment 367193
> View attachment 367194
> View attachment 367195



Too much pain, must be difficult to sleep for some these days.

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## Trango Towers

Wow. Amazing news. 
Only a few weeks ago there was a post here that Pakistan was the only nuclear power without a submarine launch 2nd strike capability. Well what do you know. 

Amazing achievement with so much global pressure. I bet that really upsets our neighbours. 

Sad to see them upset but they can politely kiss our northern as5

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## Director General

[


ISI-1 said:


> But does the BramahputraMoscow function in entireity?


Yes.


----------



## sady

Moonlight said:


> HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA
> 
> 
> Torturing torturing yes it is torturing.
> 
> @django @The Sandman @Zibago @Hell hound @The Eagle @Jonah Arthur
> 
> View attachment 367189
> View attachment 367190
> View attachment 367191
> View attachment 367192
> View attachment 367193
> View attachment 367194
> View attachment 367195


I wonder if India is using too much fluoride in water supply. The level of intelligence in gen public is too lolwa! ☺


----------



## Hassan Guy

The Deterrent said:


> Tidbits:
> 
> 1. This marks the first completely successful test flight of Babur's SLCM variant. The system will require more test flights before it is ready for production and subsequent induction.
> 2. The test seems to have been conducted almost two weeks ago (27-28 Dec), when a corresponding Navigational Warning was issued. The reason for delaying public announcement is unclear at this moment.
> 3. The weapon was fired from a mobile underwater platform. No submarine was involved, however, I personally believe that Agosta-90Bs should be able to fire it from their standard 533mm torpedo tubes.
> 4. The range is incorrectly mentioned as 450km for unknown reason(s). Since Babur-3 is the SLCM variant of Babur-2, both have the same 650km strike range.


Really no submarine?


----------



## Hyde

No indian news channel's report as yet? Missing comedy...

Please someone share n tag me when found... thanks

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## ISI-1

Moonlight said:


> HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA
> 
> 
> Torturing torturing yes it is torturing.
> 
> @django @The Sandman @Zibago @Hell hound @The Eagle @Jonah Arthur
> 
> View attachment 367189
> View attachment 367190
> View attachment 367191
> View attachment 367192
> View attachment 367193
> View attachment 367194
> View attachment 367195



ENVY & BITTERNESS very bad for health!

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## The Eagle

Moonlight said:


> HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA
> 
> 
> Torturing torturing yes it is torturing.
> 
> @django @The Sandman @Zibago @Hell hound @The Eagle @Jonah Arthur
> 
> View attachment 367189
> View attachment 367190
> View attachment 367191
> View attachment 367192
> View attachment 367193
> View attachment 367194
> View attachment 367195



Yeah, the call center so-called admirals commenting on Babur however, the name is good enough to send a message BABUR. The next big I expect as Taimur...... 

Indeed, this test along with many others in past, have actually taken over minds that paying so much attention which is an acknowledgement of the fact. New year news that too with SLCM Babur, will be remembered in history.

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## Riz

Hassan Guy said:


> USA
> Russia
> South Korea
> Israel(not confirmed)
> And now Pakistan
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine-launched_cruise_missile


China don't have slcm ?


----------



## Moonlight

ISI-1 said:


> CONGRATUALTION akhi on our success. Mau ALLAH AoJ shower Pakistan and all Muslims with His special mercy, ãmiin. This news has lifted my spirit sky high, الحمدلله



Amen Amen. Yes it is an amazing day for Pakistan.

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## imadul

imadul said:


> Two accidents on ins sindhurtuna.
> And
> orpedo compartment of the submarine INS Sindhurakshak..
> And so may others in frigates...really long list...
> 
> But who cares, keep it up.


Wasnt keeping tabs.
INS Sindhurakshak sank at mumbao doc, 18 sailors died.

Great fireworks. Sad that lives lost but i am pleased wth the the rate of accidents


----------



## ashok321

Hassan Guy said:


> Yup, it was a fully submerged launch, hopefully this program will help for a future SLBM project.



For that, have to have bigger displacement submarines with fat belly & enough womb space for a baby to shoot out.


----------



## mourning sage

rana MRL said:


> Babur v2 range is 700 km ,,, Babur SLCM has 450 km range ,, any senior member explain the reduction in range,,, answer welcome...


reduced size to fit into the vertical launch tubes of the submarine, plus the missile cruises over sea which has a significantly higher air density owing to the heavy presence of saturated vapor.

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## Hassan Guy

riz1978 said:


> China don't have slcm ?


They have SLBm's in service
Though I think China does use cruise missiles on their experimental Type032 qing class submarine.


----------



## YeBeWarned

Is mauqe pe yeh Video post kerni tu Banti hai

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## Hassan Guy

ashok321 said:


> For that, have to have bigger displacement submarines with fat belly & enough womb space for a baby to shoot out.


.......interesting analogy

Yes, new submarines are in the pipeline


----------



## SrNair

Dazzler said:


> Too much pain, must be difficult to sleep for some these days.



Not that much pain.


On topic: Congratulations .Good Work .
But 450 km wont cut the deal and vulnerable due to our ASW systems .Need at least 1000Km.If that is BM then it is better.

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## ISI-1

Dazzler said:


> Too much pain, must be difficult to sleep for some these days.



Hhhhh,


----------



## Moonlight

Dazzler said:


> Too much pain, must be difficult to sleep for some these days.



But I am lovin it. I am literally finding tweets from neighbors. Nothing is more entertaining than seeing reactions of Indians on any achievement of Pakistan.

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## SrNair

Zaki said:


> No indian news channel's report as yet? Missing comedy...
> 
> Please someone share n tag me when found... thanks



I have seen some .
But not that sensational .

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## Moonlight

sady said:


> I wonder if India is using too much fluoride in water supply. The level of intelligence in gen public is too lolwa! ☺



Word Indian says all.

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## Imran Khan

SrNair said:


> Not that much pain.
> 
> 
> On topic: Congratulations .Good Work .
> But 450 km wont cut the deal and vulnerable due to our ASW systems .Need at least 1000Km.If that is BM then it is better.


a single step of 1000km ? wait there will be 2000km too after years . we did not send our kids you university direct sir

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## The Deterrent

Hassan Guy said:


> Really no submarine?


Affirmative.

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## ISI-1

imadul said:


> Wasnt keeping tabs.
> INS Sindhurakshak sank at mumbao doc, 18 sailors died.
> 
> Great fireworks. Sad that lives lost but i am pleased wth the the rate of accidents



ME-AOWW. Very deep!


----------



## Sloth 22

Taimoor Khan said:


> Dont think you can drag a pantoon from Pakistani coastline bypassing Arabian sea and into Indian ocean and fire Babur 3 from there. I was fired from "mobile underwater platform" as per the news. Correct me if I am wrong, the Indian test of K series Russian missiles were done from static pantoons?



K Series SLBMs have nothing to do with Russia. 
Both K15 and K4 were tested from first land, then submerged pontoons and then Arihant.


----------



## Hassan Guy

Has the payload of the babur-3 been specified(nuclear warhead ofc)?


----------



## Hyde

SrNair said:


> I have seen some .
> But not that sensational .


Please do share it when found. I love watching such news. Trust me I didn't even watch single Pakistani channel as yet as I know their analysis are always boring and damn serious.

Indian news channels are best when reporting such news

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## Hassan Guy

Pakistan is quite ahead of India in terms of SLCM's they need to catch up on SLBM's India is ways a head with that.


----------



## Areesh

The Deterrent said:


> Affirmative.



ISPR calls it *submarine *launched missile. So it wasn't fired from a submarine?


----------



## SQ8

Now that the cat is out of the bag, I wonder why no one saw thr clues when the Naval strategic command was inaugurated.....

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## Moonlight

The Eagle said:


> Yeah, the call center so-called admirals commenting on Babur however, the name is good enough to send a message BABUR. The next big I expect as Taimur......
> 
> Indeed, this test along with many others in past, have actually taken over minds that paying so much attention which is an acknowledgement of the fact. *New year news that too with SLCM Babur, will be remembered in history*.



Most certainly. And we have witnessed this day. 

A nuclear triad Pakistan. *Alhumdulillah*

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## -SINAN-

Maşallah guys. 


Let's put a "evil eye protector" in this thread.

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## Hassan Guy

Oscar said:


> Now that the cat is out of the bag, I wonder why no one saw thr clues when the Naval strategic command was inaugurated.....


That 30 second twitter video was needed, seeing is believing.


----------



## The Deterrent

Areesh said:


> ISPR calls it *submarine *launched missile. So it wasn't fired from a submarine?


The exact words from the Press Release:


> Rawalpindi - January 9, 2017:
> Pakistan conducted its first successful test fire of Submarine Launched Cruise Missile (SLCM) Babur-3 having a range of 450 kilometers, from an undisclosed location in the Indian Ocean.* The missile was fired from an underwater, mobile platform* and hit its target with precise accuracy. Babur-3 is a sea-based variant of Ground Launched Cruise Missile (GLCM) Babur-2, which was successfully tested earlier in December, last year.

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## ISI-1

Director General said:


> [
> 
> Yes.



Really? What's your poison... I mean which drugs you take? May I have some, please?


----------



## Hassan Guy

Sinan said:


> Maşallah guys.
> 
> 
> Let's put a "evil eye protector" in this thread.


Oh thanks for that

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

Director General said:


> Sindhu class has fired Klub many times.
> First time was in Baltic sea in 2002.


U are pulling facts from ur behind


----------



## YeBeWarned

Oscar said:


> Now that the cat is out of the bag, I wonder why no one saw thr clues when the Naval strategic command was inaugurated.....



People always have it in mind ... but yeah we can say more like Guess's and Wishes in this regard


----------



## Taimoor Khan

Director General said:


> Arihant the only SSBN in south Asia has already fired K-series.



Did you actually fire from the sub from the depths of Arabian/Indian ocean or was it just a underwater pantoon? Type of submarine is irrelevant in the sub continent war games.

K series is Russian missile.


----------



## imadul

amir waqas said:


> Is that mean pakistan got the counter atomic attack capability????


Called 2nd strike, bro.
Means someone fire nuke and assets destroyed on land, other party can strike back from a 3rd unaffected location so it even minimize probability of the 1st hostile attack.

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## Areesh

The Deterrent said:


> The exact words from the Press Release:



But then our missile has no platform to launch unless Augusta 90b can also fire this missile. Chinese subs are still few years away.


----------



## Taimoor Khan

Sloth 22 said:


> K Series SLBMs have nothing to do with Russia.
> Both K15 and K4 were tested from first land, then submerged pontoons and then Arihant.



Your Airhant is not sea worthy yet. are you sure about your claims and also if K series are not Russian missiles?


----------



## Rashid Mahmood

Oscar said:


> Now that the cat is out of the bag, I wonder why no one saw thr clues when the Naval strategic command was inaugurated.....



The first test was conducted 2 years ago.

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## Hassan Guy

Areesh said:


> But then our missile has no platform to launch unless Augusta 90b can also fire this missile. Chinese subs are still few years away.


Apparently its still unknown if it can be fired from the Agosta 90b or if we will have to wait for the upcoming subs.


----------



## django

Moonlight said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh Indians
> 
> @django @Zibago @Hell hound @The Sandman @Jonah Arthur
> View attachment 367185

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## Eagle+Viper

Muhammad Omar said:


> View attachment 367148
> 
> 
> View attachment 367150
> 
> 
> View attachment 367153
> View attachment 367154

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## denel

Congrats... this is a big development

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## Rashid Mahmood

The Deterrent said:


> The exact words from the Press Release:



It was fired from a 90B. (Confirmed)

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## Eagle+Viper

happybirthdaytoyou said:


> is it launched from Agosta 90b????

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## SQ8

Rashid Mahmood said:


> The first test was conducted 2 years ago.


Not my place to say. But certain folks here are not well versed in the idea of opsec @Bilal Khan 777 @Horus

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## Eagle+Viper

Muhammad Omar said:


> View attachment 367148
> 
> 
> View attachment 367150
> 
> 
> View attachment 367153
> View attachment 367154


----------



## Sloth 22

Taimoor Khan said:


> Your Airhant is not sea worthy yet. are you sure about your claims and also if K series are not Russian missiles?



The SLBM program has been highly secretive. No one had any clue. Its 100% Indian Effort. 

Regarding sea worthiness , well if you mean that has the Submarine Started Nuclear Patrols , no it hasn't yet. 

But the vessel has successfully tested and integrated . Weapon Systems and is being used right now to test longer range SLBMs. When you see the next NAVERA warning in Bay of Bengal this year from now,and it would be Arihant test fireing the medium range SLBM.

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## The Deterrent

Side-Winder said:


> What press release?
> 
> "
> Rawalpindi - January 9, 2017:
> Pakistan conducted its first successful test fire of Submarine Launched Cruise Missile (SLCM) Babur-3 having a range of 450 kilometers, from an undisclosed location in the Indian Ocean.* The missile was fired from an underwater, mobile platform* and hit its target with precise accuracy. Babur-3 is a sea-based variant of Ground Launched Cruise Missile (GLCM) Babur-2, which was successfully tested earlier in December, last year.
> 
> Babur-3 SLCM incorporates state of the art technologies including underwater controlled propulsion and advanced guidance and navigation features, duly augmented by Global Navigation, Terrain and Scene Matching Systems. The missile features terrain hugging and sea skimming flight capabilities to evade hostile radars and air defenses, in addition to certain stealth technologies, in an emerging regional Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) environment.
> 
> Babur-3 SLCM in land-attack mode, is capable of delivering various types of payloads and will provide Pakistan with a Credible Second Strike Capability, augmenting deterrence. While the pursuit and now the successful attainment of a second strike capability by Pakistan represents a major scientific milestone, it is manifestation of the strategy of measured response to nuclear strategies and postures being adopted in Pakistan’s neighborhood.
> 
> The test was witnessed by the Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC) General Zubair Mahmood Hayat, DG Strategic Plans Division (SPD) Lieutenant General Mazhar Jamil, Commander Naval Strategic Force Command (NSFC), senior officials, scientists and engineers from Scientific Strategic Organizations. The CJCSC and three services chiefs congratulated all the officials involved, on achieving this highly significant milestone. He also highlighted that successful test fire of SLCM also demonstrates confidence on our scientists and engineers in fostering the technological prowess, through indigenization and self-reliance. Pakistan eyes this hallmark development as a step towards reinforcing policy of credible minimum deterrence."


Read the second line of the first paragraph please.


----------



## JamD

Rashid Mahmood said:


> It was fired from a 90B. (Confirmed)


The ISPR press release says "mobile, underwater platform". Could've just said submarine? Is this to avoid any contractual infractions with the French?

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## django

Donald Trump was not aware of what it was and today it is confirmed that we possess it, Hindian's eat your hearts out
@The Sandman @Sarge @Moonlight @Zibago @Hell hound



denel said:


> Congrats... this is a big development


I bet you think we did not have the capacity to produce this gem of a weapon

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## Hell hound

django said:


> Donald Trump was not aware of what it was and today it is confirmed that we possess it, Hindian's eat your hearts out
> @The Sandman @Sarge @Moonlight @Zibago @Hell hound
> 
> 
> I bet you think we did not have the capacity to produce this gem of a weapon


classic pakistan armed force.they just hit you with the achievement out of the blue 
congrats to all involved.time to sell my burnol stock not gona get better prices than today

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## CriticalThinker02

The baniyas are on fire


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## Moonlight

django said:


> Donald Trump was not aware of what it was and today it is confirmed that we possess it, Hindian's eat your hearts out
> @The Sandman @Sarge @Moonlight @Zibago @Hell hound
> 
> 
> I bet you think we did not have the capacity to produce this gem of a weapon



Let your success speak for you. Perfect example.

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## Director General

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> U are pulling facts from ur behind


You can search in Google itself.


----------



## SQ8

JamD said:


> The ISPR press release says "mobile, underwater platform". Could've just said submarine? Is this to avoid any contractual infractions with the French?


It is a mobile underwater platform 
For all intents and purposes that is pretty much all we need to know.

Unrelated, does anyone know the model of the Chinese submarine that was spotted in karachi?

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## Director General

Taimoor Khan said:


> Your Airhant is not sea worthy yet. are you sure about your claims and also if K series are not Russian missiles?


Arihant is fully operational now and commissioned.


----------



## WarFariX

Rafael said:


> O bhensaaa!
> 
> Ithey rakh!


ahahaha


----------



## Side-Winder



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## G0dfather

ISI-1 said:


> It depends on the Zionist Hindu Indians and Zionists in general. But, we hope not.



India is more than Zionist and Hindus.


----------



## WarFariX

Director General said:


> Arihant is fully operational now and commissioned.


ohhh pllzzz -_-

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## Director General

MarvellousThunder@PDC said:


> ohhh pllzzz -_-


What?


----------



## Rain

rana MRL said:


> Babur v2 range is 700 km ,,, Babur SLCM has 450 km range ,, any senior member explain the reduction in range,,, answer welcome...


The reason it is called baber 3 is more important! range is not an issue believe in Pakistan.

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## Curious_Guy

Congratulations Everyone .

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## Taimoor Khan

Sloth 22 said:


> The SLBM program has been highly secretive. No one had any clue. Its 100% Indian Effort.
> 
> Regarding sea worthiness , well if you mean that has the Submarine Started Nuclear Patrols , no it hasn't yet.
> 
> But the vessel has successfully tested and integrated . Weapon Systems and is being used right now to test longer range SLBMs. When you see the next NAVERA warning in Bay of Bengal this year from now,and it would be Arihant test fireing the medium range SLBM.




There is a strange phenomena going about here where the submarine which is not yet sea worthy, not handed over to the navy, will start firing the SLBMs!! Do you think you got credible second strike capability as we speak?


----------



## Rashid Mahmood

JamD said:


> The ISPR press release says "mobile, underwater platform". Could've just said submarine? Is this to avoid any contractual infractions with the French?



Just a term for not mentioning the name of the sub.
A sub is the only "mobile underwater Platform" capable of firing an SLCM.

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## Hassan Guy

Rashid Mahmood said:


> Just a term for not mentioning the name of the sub.
> A sub is the only "mobile underwater Platform" capable of firing an SLCM.


But our current subs don't have VLS, how where they fired from the torpedo tubes?


----------



## Bratva

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> Now Indians first need to work on SLCM with range of even 100 KM .





Tipu7 said:


> Yr I am preparing for exam
> But still over joyed with this news.
> I was repeatedly mocked by Indians on PDF about existence of Torpedo Launched Babur Cruise Missile. They used to say how you will fit such large missile in torpdo tube? How will you reduce its size? you don't have this capability &
> I wish if I can find them now and see their faces ........
> 
> @Bratva so Maritime warning was not bluff ........



That Pinpoint accuracy in the video !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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## Rain

Devil Soul said:


>


Dil Khush Kardiya Sabashy jiwano!
PS: Was the booster stage longer then usual or not?


----------



## Sine Nomine

@Rashid Mahmood what next sir,Nuclear Attack sub launch ceremony someday.

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## Rashid Mahmood

Hassan Guy said:


> But our current subs don't have VLS, how where they fired from the torpedo tubes?



Google it, like you google everything else.

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## Hyde

First video from Indian channel so far

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## Rashid Mahmood

قناص said:


> @Rashid Mahmood what next sir,Nuclear Attack sub launch ceremony someday.



Soon IA.

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## SrNair

Zaki said:


> Please do share it when found. I love watching such news. Trust me I didn't even watch single Pakistani channel as yet as I know their analysis are always boring and damn serious.
> 
> Indian news channels are best when reporting such news



Not that better, sir .
They are even pathetic than others .

But I have seen that from our own local channel .

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## My-Analogous

Devil Soul said:


> *Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor* ‏@OfficialDGISPR  5m5 minutes ago
> #Pakistan successfully test fired first Submarine launched Cruise Missile Babur-3. Rg 450 Km. #COAS congrats Nation and the team involved.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818427713627295745


 System must be horizontal based because till date we don't have vertical based


----------



## I S I

Holy F a Moly

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## django

Hell hound said:


> classic pakistan armed force.they just hit you with the achievement out of the blue
> congrats to all involved.time to sell my burnol stock not gona get better prices than today


Unlike Indians with their phantom uncorroborated "sirgical" strikes , we actually DEMONSTRATE what we claim.

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## Rain

Imran Khan said:


> pin point hot the target flag


Ye Nascom waly Jhande Urra Dete hein, Yaar inko Bataoo Paroosion ke bi chhote chhote dil hote heyn kuchh khayal rakha karoo!

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## Bratva

I just woke from a afternoon Nap and I nearly orgasmed hearing This  

Okay couple of observations, @Tipu7 It seems size is definately modified of SLCM hence the Range is 450 KM, from 700 KM. Second thing this is most probably fired from a pontoon. Just like India is testing its missiles from underwater now

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## django

Moonlight said:


> Let your success speak for you. Perfect example.


Absolutely.Kudos


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Sinan said:


> Maşallah guys.
> 
> 
> Let's put a "evil eye protector" in this thread.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Congrats to PAKISTAN on this achivement fantastic news

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## The Eagle

Oscar said:


> Unrelated, does anyone know the model of the Chinese submarine that was spotted in karachi?



Type 093 Shang Class.... I read... Connecting the dots chief...?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Bratva said:


> I just woke from a afternoon Nap and I nearly orgasmed hearing This
> 
> Okay couple of observations, @Tipu7 It seems size is definately modified of SLCM hence the Range is 450 KM, from 700 KM. Second thing this is most probably fired from a pontoon. Just like India is testing its missiles from underwater now


Sub... Confirmed by our very own @Rashid Mahmood

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## Bratva

Indians on Internet commenting.................................. 


*SivaVijay* » 09 Jan 2017 19:17

Some Observation on the Video on SM regarding the **** missile test:
- There are 4 different shots
- The first shot is alleged cruise missile exiting the water , here till the end of that particular shot the missile is still powered by rocket and is not cruising
- The second shot is Babur crossing over to land and then Babur cruising at altitude this can be from any test. But the Missile clearly has red paint
- The last shot is a target destroyed, here if we go frame by frame, the projectile does not look like the missile
So this may be another bluff by Pakis.






Asses on full fledge burner

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## CriticalThinker02

Congratulations to the whole nation, I am proud to be a Pakistani, Pakistan Zindabad.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

I see @amardeep mishra Congrats Chief...

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## Qamar shah1

Sath brosher bhej dian gy;-)


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## Bratva

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sub... Confirmed by our very own @Rashid Mahmood



Im on Page 2 now.. Let me catch up on all of this drama

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## Liquidmetal

I am not privy to the PK's strategic developments and hence what I am going to write is a guess.

My guess is that this was launched via Agosta B torpedo tubes. The lower range is because the missile has been developed to fit inside the tubes and hence may be smaller in length and diameter, thus carrying both lower fuel and a smaller warhead. This will change and PK forces develop better skills in fuel, engines and hence lighter nukes. 

The achievement is massive, only 7 countries have this ability and gives PK equal nuclear capability with our arch enemy. We should be very proud and walk with a little more swagger and confidence. Wot was it, a whole Jaw for a tooth?

Well replied PK armed forces.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Oscar said:


> Now that the cat is out of the bag, I wonder why no one saw thr clues when the Naval strategic command was inaugurated.....


Waiting from 12 years for this day, didn't expect so early after we just got successful land to sea capable test of Babur just 20 days ago. I was expecting 2 more years for SLCM

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## Bratva

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I see @amardeep mishra Congrats Chiefs...



Bhai Janay de. He will start demanding to see all the research papers Pakistan has released on underwater propulsion

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## H!TchHiker

Bratva said:


> Indians on Internet commenting..................................
> 
> 
> *SivaVijay* » 09 Jan 2017 19:17
> 
> Some Observation on the Video on SM regarding the **** missile test:
> - There are 4 different shots
> - The first shot is alleged cruise missile exiting the water , here till the end of that particular shot the missile is still powered by rocket and is not cruising
> - The second shot is Babur crossing over to land and then Babur cruising at altitude this can be from any test. But the Missile clearly has red paint
> - The last shot is a target destroyed, here if we go frame by frame, the projectile does not look like the missile
> So this may be another bluff by Pakis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asses on full fledge burner


 Love the way indians satisfied themselves..with theories

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Bratva said:


> Bhai Janay de. He will start demanding to see all the research papers Pakistan has released on underwater propulsion



Show me the missile., show me the warhead .. Show me the sub that fired it...

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## Rashid Mahmood

The Eagle said:


> Type 093 Shang Class.... I read... Connecting the dots chief...?




Well as today a great day, so enjoy another piece of news..
another boomer visited Karachi some time ago and it was not Chinese.
That's all I can say.

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## Trango Towers

My-Analogous said:


> System must be horizontal based because till date we don't have vertical based



Surely a horizontal launch is more challenging than vertical launch.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

@amardeep mishra ghussa hi kar gaya tou yaar

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## Sloth 22

Taimoor Khan said:


> There is a strange phenomena going about here where the submarine which is not yet sea worthy, not handed over to the navy, will start firing the SLBMs!! Do you think you got credible second strike capability as we speak?



Can you explain why you think the Submarine is not yet " Sea Worthy " ? 

The INS Arihant has been put to Sea Trails for more than 3 years, before commissioning last year. 

The Vessel has successfully testfired, K15 and integrated it too.


----------



## Rashid Mahmood

Bratva said:


> I just woke from a afternoon Nap and I nearly orgasmed hearing This
> 
> Okay couple of observations, @Tipu7 It seems size is definately modified of SLCM hence the Range is 450 KM, from 700 KM. Second thing this is most probably fired from a pontoon. Just like India is testing its missiles from underwater now



The size does shorten as this is the encapsulated version.

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## The Eagle

Rashid Mahmood said:


> Well as today a great day, so enjoy another piece of news..
> another boomer visited Karachi some time ago and it was not Chinese.
> That's all I can say.




Boss, you are giving a heart attack ...... hahaha.... However, good news is always a good news...

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## Trango Towers

Bratva said:


> Indians on Internet commenting..................................
> 
> 
> *SivaVijay* » 09 Jan 2017 19:17
> 
> Some Observation on the Video on SM regarding the **** missile test:
> - There are 4 different shots
> - The first shot is alleged cruise missile exiting the water , here till the end of that particular shot the missile is still powered by rocket and is not cruising
> - The second shot is Babur crossing over to land and then Babur cruising at altitude this can be from any test. But the Missile clearly has red paint
> - The last shot is a target destroyed, here if we go frame by frame, the projectile does not look like the missile
> So this may be another bluff by Pakis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asses on full fledge burner


OK it's a bluff so come and cross that border see if we don't shove one up your lungi


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Rashid Mahmood said:


> The size does shorten as this is the encapsulated version.


The range ?


----------



## Dalit

Humongous news. Congrats countrymen! I'm still trying to comprehend the enormity of this development.

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## amardeep mishra

@DESERT FIGHTER 

Thanks for tagging me! Congrats if it indeed was achieved through indigenous research. I only wish they were a little more transparent with their R&D efforts thats all!

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## My-Analogous

Zaki said:


> How many nations can launch cruise missile from subs?
> 
> Any idea?



From Sub till date are

US
Russia
China
France
UK
Pakistan
North Korea
India
Israel is near 

Horizontal base 

Pakistan 
Pakistan is first country i think and following by Israel. Can someone confirm that please?

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## Rashid Mahmood

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Waiting from 12 years for this day, didn't expect so early after we just got successful land to sea capable test of Babur just 20 days ago. I was expecting 2 more years for SLCM



Bro the first SLCM was tested +2 years ago.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The range ?



Less than the Air launched version. 
450 km is the range at which it was tested.

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## Doctor-D

Zaki said:


> First video from Indian channel so far



@ " we have never seen such kind of video".

WARNING: The video contains GRAPHIC CONTENT for the Indians.

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## Dalit

Bratva said:


> Indians on Internet commenting..................................
> 
> 
> *SivaVijay* » 09 Jan 2017 19:17
> 
> Some Observation on the Video on SM regarding the **** missile test:
> - There are 4 different shots
> - The first shot is alleged cruise missile exiting the water , here till the end of that particular shot the missile is still powered by rocket and is not cruising
> - The second shot is Babur crossing over to land and then Babur cruising at altitude this can be from any test. But the Missile clearly has red paint
> - The last shot is a target destroyed, here if we go frame by frame, the projectile does not look like the missile
> So this may be another bluff by Pakis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asses on full fledge burner



Why don't these Indians come and try us? 70 years have passed by and all we have heard is talk from these people. Just cheap talk. LOL The Indians will be in mourning mode for a long time to come after this.


----------



## My-Analogous

The Eagle said:


> Launched...
> 
> View attachment 367160
> 
> 
> Going Flight....
> 
> View attachment 367161
> 
> 
> Cruising.....
> View attachment 367162
> 
> 
> Target sighted, well aligned, approaching....
> 
> View attachment 367163
> 
> 
> 
> The accuracy..... Ma'Sha'ALLAH.... speaks volume of hard work and genius mind..... Great achievement
> View attachment 367164
> 
> 
> Congrats team Pakistan and all our brothers and friends......


WOW, we are using sticks for targeting practice our missile.


----------



## Bratva

Rafi said:


> First official launch, Babur SLCM has been tested dozens of times, US Intel had become aware, leading to sanctions.
> 
> Range will be increased in time.
> 
> Military level Beido also verified.




ISPR confirming in a vague manner that Military Grade Beidou successfully tested in Babur-2 and 3 Both 

Rawalpindi - January 9, 2017: 
Pakistan conducted its first successful test fire of Submarine Launched Cruise Missile (SLCM) Babur-3 having a range of 450 kilometers, from an undisclosed location in the Indian Ocean. The missile was fired from an underwater, mobile platform and hit its target with precise accuracy. Babur-3 is a sea-based variant of Ground Launched Cruise Missile (GLCM) Babur-2, which was successfully tested earlier in December, last year.

Babur-3 SLCM incorporates state of the art technologies including underwater controlled propulsion and advanced guidance and navigation features, duly augmented by Global Navigation, Terrain and Scene Matching Systems. The missile features terrain hugging and sea skimming flight capabilities to evade hostile radars and air defenses, in addition to certain stealth technologies, in an emerging regional Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) environment.

Babur-3 SLCM in land-attack mode, is capable of delivering various types of payloads and will provide Pakistan with a Credible Second Strike Capability, augmenting deterrence. While the pursuit and now the successful attainment of a second strike capability by Pakistan represents a major scientific milestone, it is manifestation of the strategy of measured response to nuclear strategies and postures being adopted in Pakistan’s neighborhood.

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## punit

Samlee said:


> * I Thought Nirbhay Was Being Closed*



nothing is confirmed yet.


----------



## Taimoor Khan

The Deterrent said:


> The exact words from the Press Release:




Dont think they will drag the "mobile platform", whatever it is, across the Arabian sea, into Indian ocean, and fire from there, if the testing of the weapon system was intended. No logic what so ever, unless the platform is indeed a sub.


----------



## ghauri05

amardeep mishra said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> Thanks for tagging me! Congrats if it indeed was achieved through indigenous research. I only wish they were a little more transparent with their R&D efforts thats all!


Pakistan can't be more transparent about its R&D regarding nuclear program because of western dual standards and negative attitude towards Pak.

west didn't want pak to be a nuclear power in the first place.

Look at india developing ICBMs and no western country is saying anything because its against China and serves western interest here .just imagine if pak builds a 5000km range missile what will be the response of world????

So we are bound not to publish most of our work owing to these double standards.

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## SQ8

The Eagle said:


> Type 093 Shang Class.... I read... Connecting the dots chief...?


Nope, I really did not know

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## WaLeEdK2

Bratva said:


> Indians on Internet commenting..................................
> 
> 
> *SivaVijay* » 09 Jan 2017 19:17
> 
> Some Observation on the Video on SM regarding the **** missile test:
> - There are 4 different shots
> - The first shot is alleged cruise missile exiting the water , here till the end of that particular shot the missile is still powered by rocket and is not cruising
> - The second shot is Babur crossing over to land and then Babur cruising at altitude this can be from any test. But the Missile clearly has red paint
> - The last shot is a target destroyed, here if we go frame by frame, the projectile does not look like the missile
> So this may be another bluff by Pakis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asses on full fledge burner



Others are saying it's made in China lmao


----------



## Tipu7



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## Dalit

ghauri05 said:


> Pakistan can't be more transparent about its R&D regarding nuclear program because of western dual standards and negative attitude towards Pak.
> 
> west didn't want pak to be a nuclear power in the first place.
> 
> Look at india developing ICBMs and no western country is saying anything because its against China and serves western interest here .just imagine if pak builds a 5000km range missile what will be the response of world????
> 
> So we are bound not to publish most of our work owing to these double standards.



We couldn't care less about Western concerns. Pakistan has demonstrated time and time again that it will continue to strengthen its jugular vain. This latest capability is surely going to jolt our enemies. They are clueless at the moment.

Pakistan isn't going to be a Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan. We are going to defend our land tooth and nail.

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## Bhupendra Singh_Cyan

monitor said:


> I am not seeing any Indian members here where are they ??


Yo


----------



## punit

Taimoor Khan said:


> Dont think you can drag a pantoon from Pakistani coastline bypassing Arabian sea and into Indian ocean and fire Babur 3 from there. I was fired from "mobile underwater platform" as per the news. Correct me if I am wrong, the Indian test of K series Russian missiles were done from static pantoons?


k SEIES : K -15 and K-4 both were tested from pantoon as well from INS Arihant.

K missile got nothing to do with russia. they are derived from Agni Series.


----------



## Tps43

Mentee said:


> Allah Akbar
> 
> Ethy rakh malangi
> Leave him bro ,lets not spoil the party  @The Sandman @Doordie @tps77 @SherDil007 @The Eagle guys show your bhangra moves  Buraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 367184


Janab app tou bht khush hain wasa tou main bhee hon issliya jashan tou banta ha
When I want to upload a GIF it says file is too large!!
But well

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## Maxpane

Mentee said:


> Itni khushi
> 
> Chuk k rakh  @Sarge @Djinn @war&peace @Maxpane @Morse_Code
> 
> Ethy rakh malangi
> Leave him bro ,lets not spoil the party  @The Sandman @Doordie @tps77 @SherDil007 @The Eagle guys show your bhangra moves  Buraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 367184
> View attachment 367186


hanha ha bhangrabludi sub chale ga aj . huge achievement

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## AmirPatriot

Congrats. Any plans to extend the range?

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## Dalit

AmirPatriot said:


> Congrats. Any plans to extend the range?



Only a matter of time, but I wouldn't be surprised if Pakistan didn't disclose the longer range variants. Long range missiles is always a sensitive matter. Some things are better kept secret. It is enough for the enemies to know that Pakistan possesses the tech and ability. They are smart enough to fill in the rest of the blanks.


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## denel

django said:


> Donald Trump was not aware of what it was and today it is confirmed that we possess it, Hindian's eat your hearts out
> @The Sandman @Sarge @Moonlight @Zibago @Hell hound
> 
> 
> I bet you think we did not have the capacity to produce this gem of a weapon


I still dont; i believe this capability was 'assisted' as always.  ... it is results which count whether by hook or crook or like we say here boere makaplan.

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## Dalit

denel said:


> I still dont; i believe this capability was 'assisted' as always.  ... it is results which count whether by hook or crook or like we say here boere makaplan.



All countries are one or the other way assisted. No doubt about it.

*More importantly, Pakistan now officially has achieved the triad capability.*

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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

G.M.D !!!

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## Mrc

Delhi..... here we come.....


CONGRATZ TO THE NATION.... nuclear triad is complete

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## GDP Adil Khan Niazi

Pakistan test-fires its first Submarine Launched Cruise Missile Babur-III from the Arabian Sea.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154537425462663


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## Basel

Rafi said:


> First official launch, Babur SLCM has been tested dozens of times, US Intel had become aware, leading to sanctions.
> 
> Range will be increased in time.
> 
> Military level Beido also verified.



It's rumored to be operational with PN since 2015.

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## The Deterrent

Taimoor Khan said:


> Dont think they will drag the "mobile platform", whatever it is, across the Arabian sea, into Indian ocean, and fire from there, if the testing of the weapon system was intended. No logic what so ever, unless the platform is indeed a sub.


A. Nobody said that it was conducted in the "Indian Ocean". The issued Navigational Warning placed the point of launch near Ormara.
B. Perhaps you should read up on experimental submarine-launched systems, and why testing platforms like pontoons and submersible platforms are necessary for them.


----------



## PK_Patriot

monitor said:


> I am not seeing any Indian members here where are they ??


Subah nashta lay kar ayen gay, if you know what I mean

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## friendly_troll96

Jonah Arthur said:


> He has stars on shoulder. You should be. But what will we do for t*he poop did by Khaleej times*?


what poop are you talkin about?


----------



## Bubblegum Crisis

rana MRL said:


> Pakistan nuclear triad completed ...




Sorry but Nop ! For this to be _‘really completed’_, you must own _SLBM with intercontinental ballistic missile_. Otherwise you are still extremely vulnerable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agni-VI#Agni-VI_SLBM
Agni-VI




...


----------



## vizier

Good news to ensure peace providing second strike capability. This deterrance will protect your nuclear arsenal which many think as a threat from a preemptive conventional or nuclear strike. At least provide several bullets ready to be armed for minimal deterrance against preemptive strikes since now you will be percieved more of a threat than before of course by India but also several other highly influential players both regional and global as well although you feel indifferent even sometimes friendly to some of them having this power will make you a threat automatically. Have a friendly tone but never turn your back for an easy stab. And yes until a 100% effective measure against ballistic missile salvo attack is found nuclear deterrance is necessary.
Next stage can be improving detection measures like early warning radars to cover 360 degrees against ballistic missiles. China possibly has these types of radars like India uses israeli greenpine radars.

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## Dalit

Bubblegum Crisis said:


> Sorry but Nop ! For this to be _‘really completed’_, you must own _SLBM with intercontinental ballistic missile_. Otherwise you are still extremely vulnerable.



According to your statement, this makes 98% of the world "extremely vulnerable". A country that has launched a SLCM can achieve all sorts of feats. Pakistan is very unique among Islamic countries in this regard. It already was unique when it became the first nuclear power in the Islamic world. It has since then become more and more unique after its vast arsenal of delivery capabilities. Today, the latest test undisputedly proves where Pakistan stands with its capabilities. Something even the richest Islamic countries envy. I'm sorry as well.

Just wait till we get our hands on our Chinese subs. The show hasn't even started yet. This is just a tiny glimpse of things to come. No doubt, Pakistan will vastly improve its sea launched capabilities in years to follow. This much is beyond doubt after today.

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## Hassan Guy

Check out the Comments down on these links
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...lear-capable-missile/articleshow/56423333.cms

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...aunched-nuclear-capable-missile/1/853274.html



Bubblegum Crisis said:


> Sorry but Nop ! For this to be _‘really completed’_, you must own _SLBM with intercontinental ballistic missile_.


Soon.


----------



## Rain

I guess it is right time to revisit this dance!

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009



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## Mrc

AmirPatriot said:


> Congrats. Any plans to extend the range?




The missile.probably been ready for several years ... and range is as imaginary as any thing.... i would.expect it has a reasonable range comparable to babur 2


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## neem456

Not trying to troll, but i am curious to know that why the missile bears two different colors in different phases of the clip.
In first phase its white, in second its red, and third again white.
Can somebody explain ?

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## Basel

punit said:


> Augosta 90 most probably then. right ?



There was time when PN high ups were divided in two over using A-90B for SLCM, one was in favor one was against it, it was during 2014-15.

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## Mrc

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> View attachment 367223




Fake account??



neem456 said:


> Not trying to troll, but i am curious to know that why the missile bears two different colors in different phases of the clip.
> In first phase its white, in second its red, and third again white.
> Can somebody explain ?




Quiet a pin point hit ... just the camera angle and light being deflected gives the color impression... paint is both red with white sides

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## CriticalThinker02

You guys should really head over to the Indian forums and read their butt-hurt responses, it's amazing.

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## neem456

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> View attachment 367224



There is no such tweet on his twitter handle.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author


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## Dalit

Waqas said:


> You guys should really head over to the Indian forums and read their butt-hurt responses, it's amazing.



LOL Who needs more proof of today's massive success. I'm enjoying 2017 already.

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## Bratva

The Deterrent said:


> Tidbits:
> 
> 1. This marks the first completely successful test flight of Babur's SLCM variant. The system will require more test flights before it is ready for production and subsequent induction.
> 2. The test seems to have been conducted almost two weeks ago (27-28 Dec), when a corresponding Navigational Warning was issued. The reason for delaying public announcement is unclear at this moment.
> 3. The weapon was fired from a mobile underwater testing platform. No submarine was involved, however, I personally believe that Agosta-90Bs should be able to fire it from their standard 533mm torpedo tubes once the SLCM goes operational.
> 4. The range might be incorrectly mentioned as 450km for unknown reason(s). Since Babur-3 is the SLCM variant of Babur-2, both might have the same 650km strike range.



It took 7 years to operationalize Babur-1. From 2005 to 2012. I'm guessing a similar time frame for the development cycle of SLBM coinciding with the induction of first Chinese Sub in 2022.

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## IceCold

spinghar renacido said:


> congratulations


The other day you were talking about teaching us a lesson, are you sure you want to congratulate us after all this is a weapon system and it will be used against any and whoever dares to look towards our motherland with an evil eye.

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## Bubblegum Crisis

Dalit said:


> *According to your statement, this makes 98% of the world "extremely vulnerable".* A country that has launched a SLCM can achieve all sorts of feats. Pakistan is very unique among Islamic countries in this regard. It already was unique when it became the first nuclear power in the Islamic world. It has since then become more and more unique after its vast arsenal of delivery capabilities. Today, the latest test only proves where Pakistan stands with its capabilities. Something even the richest Islamic countries envy. I'm sorry as well.




Only countries that do not have _SLBM with intercontinental ballistic missile._ It is precisely for this reason that it was created. Being able to strike extremely remote at the other end of the Earth in the very deeply hidden water (Ocean), therefore totally invisible, to make the opponent understand that he will never survive in the event of an attack. The almost perfect deterrent weapon.
_







_

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## khalid_ khan

Big thumbs up for our scientis Pakistan Army is doing the homework correctly we don't need ICBM right now our enemies now thinking from where Pakistan will Attack Air.,Land,or Big nightmare from the Deep of the ocean sea Bravo Pakistan Army we continue your development inshallah

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## Taimoor Khan

The Deterrent said:


> A. Nobody said that it was conducted in the "Indian Ocean". The issued Navigational Warning placed the point of launch near Ormara.
> B. Perhaps you should read up on experimental submarine-launched systems, and why testing platforms like pontoons and submersible platforms are necessary for them.



READ the news again

http://www.dawn.com/news/1307384/pa...-first-submarine-launched-cruise-missile-ispr


"_The missile was launched from an undisclosed location in the *Indian Ocean*, Radio Pakistan reported_."


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## The Eagle

Analyst in video: Indian Ocean .... Video is quite graphical and animated that actually Pakistan tracking mobile from it's launch to hit THAT IT IS REALLY IMPOSSIBLE THAT NOBODY DOES THIS KIND OF THING that we never seen any video ........ comparing any Indian video with any Indian missile...





Zaki said:


> First video from Indian channel so far





neem456 said:


> Not trying to troll, but i am curious to know that why the missile bears two different colors in different phases of the clip.
> In first phase its white, in second its red, and third again white.
> Can somebody explain ?



Only the analyst in above video can explain better, what to say then.

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## Hassan Guy

The test has proved Pakistan needs a sea based deterrent- which shall be expanded during the coming times.


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## Dalit

Bubblegum Crisis said:


> Only countries that do not have _SLBM with intercontinental ballistic missile._ It is precisely for this reason that it was created. Being able to strike extremely remote at the other end of the Earth in the very deeply hidden water (Ocean), therefore totally invisible, to make the opponent understand that he will never survive in the event of an attack.



How many countries don't have an SLBM intercontinental ballistic deterrent_? _Exactly. The vast majority. Even declared nuclear powers are among those. An SLBM deterrent solidifies a nuclear capability beyond doubt, but saying that without this capability you're extremely vulnerable is just not true at all. Besides, land based and air based capabilities used in various strategies can outdo and create havoc even in the presence of BMS or other anti-missile measures.

Like I said, Pakistan will never advertise its truly long range capabilities even if it already possesses them. Be it, ballistic or cruise missiles. It is a very sensitive matter. Our enemies choke at the knowledge of our current capabilities. I cannot imagine what will happen to them once they know that we possess long range capabilities.

For our enemies, it is sufficient knowledge to understand that Pakistan is advanced enough to create havoc when it is attacked by anyone. That is the message we sent very strongly today.

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## Bubblegum Crisis

Hassan Guy said:


> Check out the Comments down on these links
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...lear-capable-missile/articleshow/56423333.cms
> 
> http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...aunched-nuclear-capable-missile/1/853274.html
> 
> 
> *Soon.*




I hope with all my heart.


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## Comfortably Numb

raihans said:


> jub bhejien gay to weight ker layna



lol. aala.

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## Emmie

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> View attachment 367224



Fake tweet from a fake account.

Trump's original twitter handle is *realDonaldTrump*

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## Asfandyar Bhittani

This Picture is now also for India Today who originally published it. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818480003151200257

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## My-Analogous

Dean Winchester said:


> BrahMos range has now been revealed to be 600 km.
> 
> @smuhs1



What you are writing? i mean seriously what are you writing. Due you have any idea what is MTCR? and what is maximum range for that?

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## Dalit

Asfandyar Bhittani said:


> This Picture is now also for India Today who originally published it.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818480003151200257



The more they fvck around with us the stronger we will get.

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## Bubblegum Crisis

Dalit said:


> How many countries don't have an SLBM intercontinental ballistic deterrent_? _Exactly. The vast majority. *Even declared nuclear powers are among those.* An SLBM deterrent solidifies a nuclear capability beyond doubt, but saying that without this capability you're extremely vulnerable is just not true at all. Land based and air based capabilities used in various strategies can outdo and create havoc even in the presence of anti-BMS measures
> 
> Like I said, Pakistan will never advertise its long range capabilities even if it already possesses them. Be it, ballistic or cruise missiles. It is a very sensitive matter. Our enemies choke at the knowledge of our current capabilities. I cannot imagine what will happen to them once they know that we possess long range capabilities.
> 
> For our enemies, it is sufficient knowledge to understand that Pakistan is advanced enough to create havoc when it is attacked by anyone. That is the message we sent today.




It's just not true !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine-launched_ballistic_missile#Types_of_SLBMs




Dalit said:


> ...
> 
> Our enemies choke at the knowledge of our current capabilities. *I cannot imagine what will happen to them once they know that we possess long range capabilities.*
> 
> ...




I hope with all my heart that this is done as soon as possible (_Intercontinental _ range capabilities).





...

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## Dalit

JazbaatiHindustaani said:


> Well one can hope that Pakistan doesn't just answer our missile test with one of their own but also send a satellite up in space to our mission of sending 100.



What makes you think we won't?


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## Purepak-pak

I heard today a us military official visited Pakistan and met chief Bajwa .......what I saw this test is a clear answer that no sanction,dictation. I limit my words why today ?.........


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## El_Swordsmen

There's no power on earth that can undo Pakistan - Muhammad Ali Jinnah
congratulations to all Pakistanis on this landmark achievement

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## hussain0216

Side-Winder said:


> View attachment 367215





Waqas said:


> You guys should really head over to the Indian forums and read their butt-hurt responses, it's amazing.


which ones

i need a laugh

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## django

denel said:


> I still dont; i believe this capability was 'assisted' as always.  ... it is results which count whether by hook or crook or like we say here boere makaplan.


Either way we have done it and sir please do not underestimate the Pak engineers and scientists , they have always delivered when it came to the crunch.Kudos/Shalom

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## Dalit

Bubblegum Crisis said:


> It's just not true !
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine-launched_ballistic_missile#Types_of_SLBMs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, it is true. Not all declared nuclear powers possess an SLBM intercontinental ballistic deterrent.

With vast majority I didn't mean only declared nuke powers. I meant every country.


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## CriticalThinker02

hussain0216 said:


> which ones
> 
> i need a laugh



Go find it, I'm not publicizing any here.


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## Dalit

JazbaatiHindustaani said:


> Has there any progress on the space research front to back your optimism?



Just because you are ignorant doesn't mean everyone else is. Google is your best friend.

Now stop derailing our enjoyment. I'm going to be celebrating this development till I shut my eyes and enter sleep.

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## CriticalThinker02



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## Hassan Guy

Bubblegum Crisis said:


> It's just not true !
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine-launched_ballistic_missile#Types_of_SLBMs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We will join that list, this test proves we are on the way.

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## s.k

Imran Khan said:


> ye baat hoi na PARTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY


pehli baar khush deakha sir apko

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## Basel

Zarvan said:


> Due to rules of this forum if I would post the link of that forum here it won't work contact me on facebook or twitter



No problem I keep eye on your posts there as guest.


----------



## Director General

My-Analogous said:


> What you are writing? i mean seriously what are you writing. Due you have any idea what is MTCR? and what is maximum range for that?


He is right.

BrahMos always had a 600 km range just like Yakhont:


> According to a scientist at DRDO, "only very minor changes in software and hardware are required" to increase the range.
> 
> An Indian Navy official backed this claim. "BrahMos is a re-engineered version of [the] Russian P-800 Oniks/Yakhont anti-ship missile, and no major modification is required to achieve 600-kilometers range," the official said.
> 
> Brigadier Bhonsle agrees that the range of the BrahMos missile currently in use has a 600-kilometer range.


http://www.defensenews.com/articles/with-mtcr-entry-india-to-increase-brahmos-cruise-missile-range[/QUOTE]


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## Blue Marlin

i have noticed something, the missile is red during boost and cruise phases but during terminal the missile is white?
how?


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## My-Analogous

Tipu7 said:


> Yr I am preparing for exam
> But still over joyed with this news.
> I was repeatedly mocked by Indians on PDF about existence of Torpedo Launched Babur Cruise Missile. They used to say how you will fit such large missile in torpdo tube? How will you reduce its size? you don't have this capability &
> I wish if I can find them now and see their faces ........
> 
> @Bratva so Maritime warning was not bluff ........



Best of luck with your papers

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## Dalit

Blue Marlin said:


> i have noticed something, the missile is red during boost and cruise phases but during terminal the missile is white?
> how?



It has you puzzled, hasn't it? LOL


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## hussain0216

Blue Marlin said:


> i have noticed something, the missile is red during boost and cruise phases but during terminal the missile is white?
> how?



its just different angles

the baburs have always been red and white


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## My-Analogous

Director General said:


> He is right



And then You and Russia both facing banned including economic sanctions otherwise China will be free to give anything to anyone


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## mkiyani

congrats to every one.. hit thanks to show ur support if you are happy with this news in 2017.. inshallah rest of 2017 will bring more good news for Pakistan..

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## Paklower



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## Riz

punit said:


> k SEIES : K -15 and K-4 both were tested from pantoon as well from INS Arihant.
> 
> K missile got nothing to do with russia. they are derived from Agni Series.


Your agni is copy of scout rocket ..Goole its


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## punit

riz1978 said:


> Your agni is copy of scout rocket ..Goole its


dont derail the thread. open a new thread.


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## CriticalThinker02

Director General said:


> Your nuclear triad is complete after only one test???
> You need at least 5-6 tests to declare a missile ready for induction.



What makes you think this was the first and only test up-till now

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## ghazi768

Hassan Guy said:


> Brahmos to be launched from a submarine needs VLS, like on the Amur-class sub
> 
> (I thought that too of the Babur, but they made it work somehow - still don't know how tho.)





Jonah Arthur said:


> I have doubt over platform.
> It can be special platform made only for test purposes.



Babur is based on tomahawk, which is 520 mm in diameter, and tomahawk can be fired from standard heavy torpedo tubes which are 533 mm.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Well the attainment this technology, and achivement makes the arrival of teh new 8 Submarines even more sweeter

Really adds some real depth into Pakistani Forces

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## Muhammad Omar



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## The Eagle

@TaimiKhan @Oscar @Zaki @Emmie 

Kindly merge thread here.

https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-fires-first-submarine-launched-nuclear-capable-missile.471685/

Thanks.

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## Jammer

A game changer. Well done Pakistan!

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## Taimoor Khan

Hassan Guy said:


> Check out the Comments down on these links
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...lear-capable-missile/articleshow/56423333.cms
> 
> http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...aunched-nuclear-capable-missile/1/853274.html
> 
> 
> Soon.



Nearly spilled my coffee. Chutiyas of the highest order.

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## My-Analogous

Director General said:


> Since you ask:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/2bhrqv/underwater_brahmos_missile_launch/



It was a technology demonstration and fire from submerged pontoon but not life submarine exercise


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## Blue Marlin

Fenrir said:


> That's an actual Tomahawk, not Babur which takes some design elements from Tomahawk, but makes important and noticeable alterations too.


damn you beating me to it.


----------



## Comfortably Numb

Guynextdoor2 said:


> So....can you guys tell me...is there a Chinese missile with similar characteristics...I mean only for comparison purposes  research and stuff......


yes there is one indeed.
look for it in your a**

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## M@rKhor

Asfandyar Bhittani said:


> This Picture is now also for India Today who originally published it.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818480003151200257


These M****F**** will keep on doing their things and we will keep on doing our things.... like this cute BABUR iii

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## Johny D

Awesome news....Congrats Pak....This will build up good amount of pressure on Indian defense establishment to speed its research and development in advance technologies as Pak is catching up even in the specialized and exclusive domains....What I must admire about Pak is their dedication towards maintaining defense balance with its heavy counterpart and that too with a very limited budget! India must learn from Pakistan!

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## dilpakistani

this is by all means as big development as Nuclear testing in 1998... Sea based capability means... Even if india emty it's nuclear cache on Pakistan. Pakistan will respond ... and don't worry about the range... newer submarines will allow us to develop longer range missiles ..... Excellent news... really made my day

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## Taimoor Khan

AmirPatriot said:


> Congrats. Any plans to extend the range?



Just like Shaheen 3 is 2750KM , not a in single kilometer above that range, take Babur 3 as 450KM "only". 

That is how Pakistani deep state work. Those who need to know, already know.

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## Cool_Soldier

*Breaking News:*

Shortage of BURNOL in India

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## Director General

My-Analogous said:


> And then You and Russia both facing banned including economic sanctions otherwise China will be free to give anything to anyone


No western nation cares about what India receives from Russia


----------



## Johny D

texfab said:


> No yet missing Neuclear sub


China will soon lease one or more to you for training....and then u can build them with Chinese assistance when u ve fund..


----------



## My-Analogous

Hassan Guy said:


> USA
> Russia
> South Korea
> Israel(not confirmed)
> And now Pakistan
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine-launched_cruise_missile



List is not correct and France, Britain and China also have active missiles in their fleet


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## SSGcommandoPAK

Director General said:


> Your nuclear triad is complete after only one test???
> You need at least 5-6 tests to declare a missile ready for induction.


Some navy guy in this forum was saying that Babur 3 was first tested 2 years back but we officially accepted the launch after today's test only .

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## Mrc

JD_In said:


> Awesome news....Congrats Pak....This will build up good amount of pressure on Indian defense establishment to speed its research and development in advance technologies as Pak is catching up even in the specialized and exclusive domains....What I must admire about Pak is their dedication towards maintaining defense balance with its heavy counterpart and that too with a very limited budget! India must learn from Pakistan!




Catching up ?? Dude babur 3 came out of ocean ... nirbhoy usually goes into one

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## Isotope

Congratulations to your country on this major achievement.

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## abrar khan

Hassan Guy said:


> But our current subs don't have VLS, how where they fired from the torpedo tubes?


Assume Chinese sub fired the Babur 3 , to test Pak SLCM and also testing future Chinese acquisitions compatibility. But there has to be a sub Aug90b or Xyz to fire SLCM, underwater mobile platform is nothing. 
I am glad.


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## Hassan Guy

Isotope said:


> Congratulations to your country on this major achievement.


Thank you american.


----------



## Bratva

The Deterrent said:


> A. Nobody said that it was conducted in the "Indian Ocean". The issued Navigational Warning placed the point of launch near Ormara.
> B. Perhaps you should read up on experimental submarine-launched systems, and why testing platforms like pontoons and submersible platforms are necessary for them.



ISPR is putting indian ocean location in their press release. Perhaps someone is on Troll mode today in ISPR?

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## monitor

*Pakistan test-fires first nuclear-capable submarine cruise missile Babur-3*
PTI | Updated: Jan 9, 2017, 09.58 PM IST
*Highlights*

Pakistan fired its first submarine-launched cruise missile on Monday, the military said
The Pakistani military said the Babur-3 missile was "capable of delivering various types of payloads






ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Monday successfully test-fired its first Submarine-Launched Cruise Missile capable of carrying a nuclear warhead up to 450km from an undisclosed location in the Indian Ocean, giving the country a "credible" second-strike capability, the military said. 

The missile, Babur-3, was fired from an underwater, mobile platform and hit its target with precise accuracy, the Inter Services Public Relations, the media wing of the Pakistani military said in a statement. 

Babur-3, which has a range of 450km, is a sea-based variant of Ground Launched Cruise Missile (GLCM) Babur-2+ , which was successfully tested earlier in December, last year. 

The Babur-3 SLCM incorporates state-of-the-art technologies including underwater controlled propulsion and advanced guidance and navigation features, duly augmented by Global Navigation, Terrain and Scene Matching Systems. 

The missile features terrain hugging and sea skimming flight capabilities to evade hostile radars and air defenses, in addition to certain stealth technologies, in an emerging regional Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) environment, the release said. 

Babur-3 SLCM in land-attack mode, is capable of delivering various types of payloads and will provide Pakistan with a "credible second-strike capability, augmenting deterrence+ ," the statement said. 

While the pursuit and now the successful attainment of a second strike capability by Pakistan represents a major scientific milestone, it is manifestation of the strategy of measured response to nuclear strategies and postures being adopted in Pakistan's neighbourhood, it said, in an obvious reference to India. 

Prime Minister Muhammad Nawaz Sharif has congratulated the nation and the military on the first successful test-fire of the SLCM, his office said in a statement. 

"The successful test of Babur-3 is a manifestation of Pakistan's technological progress and self-reliance," according to the statement.


Sharif further said that Pakistan always maintains policy of peaceful co-existence but this test is a step towards reinforcing policy of credible minimum deterrence. 

The test was witnessed by the Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC) General Zubair Mahmood Hayat, Director General of the Strategic Plans Division (SPD) Lieutenant General Mazhar Jamil, Commander Naval Strategic Force Command (NSFC), senior officials, scientists and engineers from Scientific Strategic Organizations.
*Top Comment*
From a Chinese submarine. Do they even have a navy? LOLDeepak Appaji


The CJCSC and three services chiefs congratulated all the officials involved, on achieving this highly significant milestone. 

Gen. Hayat also highlighted that successful test-fire of SLCM also demonstrates confidence on our scientists and engineers in fostering the technological prowess, through indigenisation and self-reliance. 
*Stay updated on the go with Times of India News App. Click here to download it for your device.*
RELATED

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*83 Comments*

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## Windjammer

*Pakistan Tests Nuclear-Capable Missile Launched from Submarine*
MON, JAN 09

Pakistan fired with success its first submarine-launched cruise missile on Monday amid tensions with India. The Babur-3 missile is capable of carrying a nuke over 450 Km (280 miles).






*VIDEO:
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/pakist...-missile-launched-from-submarine-850742851793*

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## Imran Khan

s.k said:


> pehli baar khush deakha sir apko


 no matter how much i bla bla i have to admit and be happy on real success sir . its big achievement soon we will see them loaded on PN ships .

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## Bratva

neem456 said:


> Not trying to troll, but i am curious to know that why the missile bears two different colors in different phases of the clip.
> In first phase its white, in second its red, and third again white.
> Can somebody explain ?

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## WarFariX

Every member is so happy here today that i am getting likes for my simplest posts even lol

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## Taimoor Khan

For the sake of war gaming, it will be interesting to see if Pakistan deploy one of its submarine in red sea armed with Babur 3, to keep an eye on Israel. Israelis do have presence in Indian ocean using Iran as pretext. 

We do need to have second strike capability on all hostile entities.

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## Johny D

Mrc said:


> Catching up ?? Dude babur 3 came out of ocean ... nirbhoy usually goes into one


Dear...I think you need to know about K4 SLBM in this context...

*Testing[edit]*
The missile was originally scheduled to be initially tested in September 2013 from a pontoon submerged 50 feet underwater, but the test was delayed due to unspecified issues.[2][7] In the event, the first test was carried out on 24 March 2014 from a depth of 30 metres. The test was successful and the missile was tested to a range of 3,000 km. The launch took place from a pontoon submerged more than 30 metres deep in the sea off the Visakhapatnam coast. After a powerful gas generator ejected it from the pontoon submerged in the Bay of Bengal, the K-4 missile rose into the air, took a turn towards the designated target, sped across 3,000 km in the sky and dropped into the Indian Ocean.[8]

As of May 2014, the missile was planned for further testing both from pontoons and submarines before being declared operational.[9][10][11][12][_needs update_]

It is reported that on 7 March 2016[13] the K-4 was tested from a submerged platform in the Bay of Bengal, and It was a “roaring success,” according to an unnamed source within India’s Defense Research & Development Organization (DRDO),[14] Nevertheless there are no official confirmation on this widely reported missile test from government of India or DRDO.[15]

In April 2016, it was reported that the missile was successfully tested on 31 March 2016 from INS Arihant, 45 nautical miles away from Vishakhapatnam coast in Andhra Pradesh. The missile with a dummy payload was launched from the submarine in full operational configuration. The trial was carried out with the support of the personnel of Strategic Forces Command (SFC) and DRDO provided all the logistics. The missile was fired from 20-meter deep and covered more than 700 km before zeroing on the target with high accuracy reaching close to zero circular error probability (CEP).[13][1


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## Windjammer

*Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor* ‏@OfficialDGISPR  6h6 hours ago
#Pakistan successfully test fired first Submarine launched Cruise Missile Babur-3. Rg 450 Km. #COAS congrats Nation and the team involved.





*Ahmed Quraishi*‏@AQpk
#Pakistan has apparently crossed a major military/strategic barrier today, acquired new capability to enhance self-defense, ensure peace.

Babur3 in land-attack mode is capable of dlvrng various types of payloads,wil provide Pak wth Credible 2nd Strike Capability @OfficialDGISPR

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## Basel

Areesh said:


> ISPR calls it *submarine *launched missile. So it wasn't fired from a submarine?



@Rashid Mahmood please clarify about launch platform. ISPR said launched from submarine while members here saying not from sub? My personal info tells me all PN subs are capable of firing this version of SLCM but only A-90Bs would be used for SLCM due to wear n tear issue with A-70s, m I right?


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## Isotope

Hassan Guy said:


> Thank you american.


You are most welcome !!!

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## Basel

Rashid Mahmood said:


> The first test was conducted 2 years ago.



You mean its operational with A-90B as there were romours since a year or so, about it.


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## Valar Dohaeris

For all those compaling about two different colors of missile in the video at two instances.

What you really think ? ISPR ran out of red color in the end when they were trying to fake the video with two different missiles ?

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## Muhammad Omar

Basel said:


> @Rashid Mahmood please clarify about launch platform. ISPR said launched from submarine while members here saying not from sub? My personal info tells me all PN subs are capable of firing this version of SLCM but only A-90Bs would be used for SLCM due to wear n tear issue with A-70s, m I right?



He already said it was from 90B confirmed

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## Shotgunner51

Zaki said:


> So is this the first time we launched a cruise missile from submarine right?
> 
> Congrats Pakistan, what a landmark achievement!




Sure it's a landmark achievement, congrats bros! So glad today, cos I remember in older threads (early last year) about the new subs I talked far more about them being used as second strike strategic force, together with Babur-III, possible Beidou usage, etc., as opposed to them being used in naval warfare.

Just as Israeli built sea-based deterrent using Dolphin-class sub as platform for their SLCM, in my opinion both PN and IDF are doing things effectively to counter respective opponent who are:

Regional, not inter-continental
Limited firepower. India has fission stockpile only, total yield at 1 megaton, whatever delivery system like Agni or Arihant doesn't matter, especially when they have large CEP aka low-precision. Israel's opponents aren't even nuclear yet.
The combination: Pakistani advantageous firepower (2.1 megaton, more than twice of India's) + Babur SLCM (supported by a mix of hi-precision guidance systems) + AIP-enhanced conventional subs = an effective deterrent, it means whatever damage India tries to inflict on Pakistan, she gets back more than twice of that in return, and being more precisely hit. This design serves the purpose with minimum taxpayers' money.

http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/india-nuclear-disarmament/
http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/pakistan-nuclear-disarmament/

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## Windjammer

Areesh said:


> Where are the boys at this big news??
> 
> @Windjammer @DESERT FIGHTER @Tipu7 @Zarvan


Sorry bro, was busy catching up with work after Christmas and new year break.
The boys have been celebrating since morning, must say it's an awesome achievement by our scientists.
Best news since May 1998.

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## Taimoor Khan

Sloth 22 said:


> Can you explain why you think the Submarine is not yet " Sea Worthy " ?
> 
> The INS Arihant has been put to Sea Trails for more than 3 years, before commissioning last year.
> 
> The Vessel has successfully testfired, K15 and integrated it too.



Can you link me the video of actual test of K15 from Arihant from deep sea?


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## s.k

Imran Khan said:


> no matter how much i bla bla i have to admit and be happy on real success sir . its big achievement soon we will see them loaded on PN ships .


sir ALLAH apko hamesha esi tarah khush rakhay or jald az jald apki jholi me ICBM ki khushi dalay, sub bolo Ameen

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## Eagle+Viper




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## Imran Khan

s.k said:


> sir ALLAH apko hamesha esi tarah khush rakhay or jald az jald apki jholi me ICBM ki khushi dalay, sub bolo Ameen


i have long range in my jholi . he bite on ears fingers and sometime even feet

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## My-Analogous

Taimoor Khan said:


> Dont think they will drag the "*mobile* platform", whatever it is, across the Arabian sea, into Indian ocean, and fire from there, if the testing of the weapon system was intended. No logic what so ever, unless the platform is indeed a sub.



This is Pakistan land base platform


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## Basel

Rashid Mahmood said:


> Well as today a great day, so enjoy another piece of news..
> another boomer visited Karachi some time ago and it was not Chinese.
> That's all I can say.



Russian?

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## Taimur Khurram

Nuclear triad complete.

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## Areesh

Muhammad Omar said:


>



From today's test??


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## SSGcommandoPAK

Taimoor Khan said:


> For the sake of war gaming, it will be interesting to see if Pakistan deploy one of its submarine in red sea armed with Babur 3, to keep an eye on Israel. Israelis do have presence in Indian ocean using Iran as pretext.
> 
> We do need to have second strike capability on all hostile entities.





Taimoor Khan said:


> For the sake of war gaming, it will be interesting to see if Pakistan deploy one of its submarine in red sea armed with Babur 3, to keep an eye on Israel. Israelis do have presence in Indian ocean using Iran as pretext.
> 
> We do need to have second strike capability on all hostile entities.


With only 3 Agosta 90s this cannot be done at the moment ... but yes after we start getting some Chinese subs we can keep an eye on Israel too.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

spinghar renacido said:


> my private sources says, it was launched from a *small island *in indian ocean, launching claim from a submarine was a deception on pakistan part.




fk ur sources:

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## tanlixiang28776

So with the upcoming 8 Yuan based export submarines which hold can hold up to 18 torpedoes or missiles internally Pakistan could realistically have up to 96 SLCM from those subs alone factoring each sub having 6 torpedoes each. They could also very likely come with dedicated vertical launch systems which would allow much greater capacity and size of missile. Im not sure if its easier to add a nuclear warhead to a Chinese SLCM or use Pakistani SLCMs in a Chinese sub. But if they use a Chinese one they would come with 3000km range from the start and very cheap prices if bundled

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## Areesh

Fenrir said:


> Decades old picture of Tomahawk.



Humm. I knew it. We recorded the launch from a different angle.


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## CriticalThinker02

Shotgunner51 said:


> Yes it's a landmark achievement, congrats bros!
> 
> I remember in older threads (early last year) about the new subs I talked far more about them being used as second strike strategic force, together with Babur-III, possible Beidou usage, etc., as opposed to them being used in naval warfare. Just as Israeli built their deterrent using Dolphin-class sub as platform for their SLCM, in my opinion both PN and IDF are doing things effectively to counter respective opponent who are:
> 
> Regional, not inter-continental
> Limited firepower i.e. fission stockpile only (Israel's opponents aren't even nuclear).
> The combination of Pakistani firepower (2.1 megaton, more than twice that of opponent) + Babur SLCM + AIP-enhanced conventional subs shall be an effective deterrent.
> 
> http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/india-nuclear-disarmament/
> http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/pakistan-nuclear-disarmament/



We should not tire and keep building up on these advances.

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## Sloth 22

Taimoor Khan said:


> Can you link me the video of actual test of K15 from Arihant from deep sea?



No video exists. 

The only one is of the development trails from a pontoon.


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## .

In the next decade Pakistan will develop SLCM with ICBM classs range.




I think the USA'es intel proved correct as they sanctioned Pakistan's firms,Most probably because their Trident-II's are feeling the pressure now
May God have mercy on our enemies because we won't

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## Taimoor Khan

YousufSSG said:


> With only 3 Agosta 90s this cannot be done at the moment ... but yes after we start getting some Chinese subs we can keep an eye on Israel too.



I am not sure about current inventory of Israeli subs but I believe they also got 3. If they can keep one in Indian ocean, with the help of Saudis, we can keep one in red sea well. With 20 days submerged endurance provided by MESMA AIP, the agostas can be kept well hidden.

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## Windjammer

*Pakistan released this picture of a nuclear-capable cruise missile being launched from a submarine during a test firing at a secret location off the coast*


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-submarine-cruise-missile.html#ixzz4VI4v3YJJ 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

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## Taimoor Khan

Sloth 22 said:


> No video exists.
> 
> The only one is of the development trails from a pontoon.




Proof is in the pudding as they say. 

Indian second strike capability is questionable to say the least.

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## .

Windjammer said:


> *Pakistan released this picture of a nuclear-capable cruise missile being launched from a submarine during a test firing at a secret location off the coast*
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-submarine-cruise-missile.html#ixzz4VI4v3YJJ
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


Dear Sir,Do you think the Platform was agosta 90b? or the recently docked Chinese -Nsub?


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## Indika

JD_In said:


> China will soon lease one or more to you for training....and then u can build them with Chinese assistance when u ve fund..


I think that would be contravention of NSG rules.


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## Dalit

Indika said:


> I think that would be contravention of NSG rules.



How about US nuke tech handed over to India?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Indika said:


> I think that would be contravention of NSG rules.


Russia helped india build arihant... violation of NSG?

Our Nuke sub is already under development.

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## Basel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818514697876111361

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## A.A. Khan

Pakistan finally has achieved what it wished back in 90s second strike capability, but its going to have to continue broadening its stockpile. Pakistan needs ICBM as well and it should acquire it with strong air force.

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## war&peace

Congratulations 

What do you have to say @Penguin ? Do you remember I told you that Pakistan has the ability to launch Babur SLCM from its Agosta-90Bs using Torpedo tubes.

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## Dalit

Northern said:


> In the next decade Pakistan will develop SLCM with ICBM classs range.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the USA'es intel proved correct as they sanctioned Pakistan's firms,Most probably because their Trident-II's are feeling the pressure now
> May God have mercy on our enemies because we won't



No doubt. American sanctions and this test don't seem a coincidence at all. They knew what we were going to do. Well, they should lick their wounds now.

Pakistan has written history today and completed the triad. The completion marks the beginning of something very special. From SLCM capabilities to a solid SLBM deterrent. We are in for a treat. It is an extremely exciting time for Pakistan as our enemies burn with anger.

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## Windjammer

Northern said:


> Dear Sir,Do you think the Platform was agosta 90b? or the recently docked Chinese -Nsub?


Although not my strong subject however, I doubt Chinese would be keen on us testing a new weapon system on their nuclear Sub. The news is it was launched from an Agosta-90B.

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## Johny D

Indika said:


> I think that would be contravention of NSG rules.


NO...there are loopholes in the system hence we got Russian Nuke on lease long back which laid the foundation to Indian Nuke Sub Arihant.....Russia said they didnt sell it.....china can do the same, it just that we had money to pay whereas in case of Pak, China will have to lend it or give it for free as both have a common enemy,,,,


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## The Deterrent

Bratva said:


> ISPR is putting indian ocean location in their press release. Perhaps someone is on Troll mode today in ISPR?





Taimoor Khan said:


> READ the news again
> http://www.dawn.com/news/1307384/pa...-first-submarine-launched-cruise-missile-ispr
> 
> 
> "_The missile was launched from an undisclosed location in the *Indian Ocean*, Radio Pakistan reported_."


It is a generic statement, issued for strategic tests every time. The NOTAMs and Coastal Warnings are much more precise and always authentic.


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## somebozo

One step closed towards sea based deterrent....


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## Indika

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Russia helped india build arihant... violation of NSG?
> 
> Our Nuke sub is already under development.


Leasing & helping build are two different things.


----------



## redgriffin

friendly_troll96 said:


> sharab haram hai. hmaray leay sirf shabab order kariyo. bas zra garam ho.


Shahab bhi baghair nikkah haram hae.


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## Indika

JD_In said:


> NO...there are loopholes in the system hence we got Russian Nuke on lease long back which laid the foundation to Indian Nuke Sub Arihant.....Russia said they didnt sell it.....china can do the same, it just that we had money to pay whereas in case of Pak, China will have to lend it or give it for free as both have a common enemy,,,,


Yes then there was a loop hole but not any more. It is similar to the nuke reactor deal that pakistan had with china.


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## Peaceful Civilian

Oscar said:


> Now that the cat is out of the bag, I wonder why no one saw thr clues when the Naval strategic command was inaugurated.....


Can SAMs work in submarine via VLS? And , Can radar work when submarine is submerged? Sorry for noob question


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## friendly_troll96

redgriffin said:


> Shahab bhi baghair nikkah haram hae.


majjak kar rela tha 
https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...om-submarine-ispr.471649/page-15#post-9091979


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Indika said:


> Leasing & helping build are two different things.



They did both.... and even your own people have written about it..... infact your own people claim that without russian help arihant would have never seen day light.


*Enter the Russians*



The project was re-launched in 1985 under Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) co-ordination with the codename Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV). With a retired vice admiral in charge, work on a prototype reactor began at the Kalpakkam nuclear power plant.

*“But the project was still not getting anywhere,” says V. Koithara in the book Managing India’s Nuclear Forces. “India then sought and got much more substantial Russian help than had been envisaged earlier. The construction of the submarine’s hull began in 1998, and a basically Russian-designed 83 megawatt pressurised-water reactor was fitted in the hull nine years later.”*

*Ashok Parthasarthi, a former science and technology adviser to the late Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, sums up the extent of Russian assistance: “India's first indigenous nuclear submarine, INS Arihant...would have just been impossible to realise without Russia’s massive all-round consultancy, technology transfer, technical services and training, technical 'know-how' and 'show-how,' design of the submarine as a whole, and above all numerous operational 'tips' based on 50 years of experience in designing, building and operating nuclear submarines.”*

According to Bidwai,* “Scores of Russian engineers were sent to India to aid the DAE and DRDO....It was the Russians who supplied the vital designs, precision equipment based on their VM-5 reactor, and the technology of miniaturising the reactor.”*

And if there were *any doubts about the extent of Russian involvement, they were cast away on July 26, 2009 when 143 Russian engineers, designers and consultants – all participants in the project – attended the boomer’s launch ceremony at Visakhapatnam on the east coast.*

Misguided move?

As well as Arihant class boomers, the Indian Navy also plans to acquire as many as six nuclear-powered attack submarines or sub surface nuclear (SSN). India is reportedly holding discussions with shipbuilders from France and the US on participating in the SSN project. This seems wrong in so many ways.

Unlike western support, *Russian assistance comes with no strings attached. “Although Russian assistance was extended throughout the 25-year designing and building of Arihant, at no time did anyone in the Russian government ever even mention any end-use restriction,” Parthasarthi points out.*

This is significant in the backdrop of India’s quest for diversification in defence purchases. Parthasarthi contrasts Russian military sales with American assistance. “And yet, if India were to import some incomparably low-tech electronic warfare equipment from the US, the US government will demand the application of the end user monitoring agreement.”

When choosing a partner for its future nuclear sub fleet, the Navy brass and the political leadership should bear in mind that the US has traditionally been an unreliable partner in almost every area but especially in defence matters.

France, which welched on the $1 billion Mistral deal with Russia, is no better. Where once it pursued an independent foreign policy, Paris’ interests are now closely aligned with those of the US. French armed forces are partnering the US in a range of conflicts in the Middle East.

“If an Indo-Pak war occurs or we conduct nuclear device tests, the NATO government of the foreign supplier will embargo all supplies of spares and technical services, thereby immobilising our imported weapon systems. Only Russia has never applied embargoes on us,” Parthasarthi explains.

Also, India has had the opportunity, which no other country has had, to test drive foreign nuclear submarines. The Indian Navy was able to lease and operate a Charlie class Soviet submarine for three years beginning 1988.

Again, in 2012 India acquired an Akula II class nuclear attack submarine from the Russian Navy, with an option to buy the vessel after the lease expires. Three hundred Indian Navy personnel were trained in Russia for the operation of the submarine, which was renamed Chakra II.

Can you imagine the US, France or Germany offering India such terms?

And finally, costs. India spent Rs 300 billion on the Arihant project, reinventing the n-submarine. Had New Delhi asked for Russian assistance in the 1970s, the Indian Navy would have acquired a boomer at least a decade or two earlier – and for a lot less.

The sticker price for the six new SSNs is projected at Rs 1 trillion. The entire world knows how the French Rafale’s cost kept increasing like an ever expanding balloon, forcing India to cut its order from 126 aircraft to just 36. India’s future nuclear submarine fleet should not face a similar fate.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...m-submarine-ispr.471649/page-43#ixzz4VCLgiKPp
http://in.rbth.com/blogs/stranger_t...usia-helped-deliver-indias-baby-boomer_533849


http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/russians-helped-with-ins-arihants-heart-kakodkar-399140
*
The Arihant was developed completely with the help of Russians, and based on the older Russian Charlie class submarine, who comes with double hull to suppress the noise to make the ship more silent. Arihant’s heart, the nuclear reactor is designed by the BARC, who get full support from the Russian to miniaturize it and fit inside the submarine. The Arihant’s nuclear reactor is capable to generate 83 MW power, to propel and provide electricity to the Ship.*

http://defenceupdate.in/arihant-operational-thank-russia/

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Oscar said:


> Now that the cat is out of the bag, I wonder why no one saw thr clues when the Naval strategic command was inaugurated.....


And, your article of projections...

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## razgriz19

Wait so what's babur 2?


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## The Deterrent

razgriz19 said:


> Wait so what's babur 2?


Upgraded Babur GLCM. Sort of block 2.


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## JamD

The Deterrent said:


> Upgraded Babur GLCM. Sort of block 2.


This might be a stupid question but have we stopped using the Hatf naming convention? I suppose it got too complicated with multiple versions of Shaheen-1 and now Babur.


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## koteka

Well done Pakistan

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

spinghar renacido said:


> my private sources says, it was launched from a small island in indian ocean, launching claim from a submarine was a deception on pakistan part.




Yeah of course. Afghan space satellites spotted it didn't they..........



Devil Soul said:


> *Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor* ‏@OfficialDGISPR  5m5 minutes ago
> #Pakistan successfully test fired first Submarine launched Cruise Missile Babur-3. Rg 450 Km. #COAS congrats Nation and the team involved.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818427713627295745






Don't want this momentous occasion to turn into a troll fest, but ONLY last month, I was arguing with an indian who I told that Pakistan ALREADY HAS a 2nd and 3rd strike nuclear capability and was severely ridiculed for it. He claimed that it would take at LEAST 3 decades for us to achieve that capability IF at all possible. I'm trying to find that thread but having difficulty in locating it. Don't know if someone can help me or not. But it seems that everything the indians say or wish for Pakistan, the EXACT OPPOSITE happens....................

With the above capability and the fact that we have had H-bomb capability since early 2011:

http://isis-online.org/isis-reports...g-nuclear-weapons-time-for-pakistan-to-rever/

it is now evident that Pakistan has more than enough capability to completely wipe india off the face of the earth should the need arise.

The damning evidence is that Pakistan is FAR FAR more militarily advanced than it publicly admits to. Not only do we have a triad of nuclear strike capabilities but the strong circumstantial evidence is that Pakistan also has ICBM, advanced ABM & indigenous capabilities to produced advanced fighter jets & other military hardware

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## dilpakistani

to my indian friends... significance of the test is that it's a cruise missile not ballistic missile... Your brainless comparison it with k - series is some what a stupid one. Ballistic missiles are more difficult and technologically challenging to mount... however their usage and effectiveness is very limited. In contrast cruise missiles are easy to mount and their effectiveness and free hand usage is much much more versatile ...India still have to test cruise missiles from under water.

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## PatrioticPaki

RangeMaster said:


> Another milestone achieved by our scientests..... ....
> Congratulations to the armed forces of Pakistan.Most awaited news finally came.Somepeople feeling butthurt somewhere in our east.Nuclear triad completed. Well done Pakistan


----------



## The Deterrent

JamD said:


> This might be a stupid question but have we stopped using the Hatf naming convention? I suppose it got too complicated with multiple versions of Shaheen-1 and now Babur.


It seems so. It was only supposed to be a symbolic tradition anyways. 
Shaheen-IA/III and Babur-II/III all don't have corresponding Hatf designations.

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## PatrioticPaki

Proud moment, congrats to the whole nation!

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## Dalit

Indika said:


> Leasing & helping build are two different things.



Your wish will come true if it hasn't already. China will and is already helping Pakistan in achieving this objective.

Now let me count the recent developments and blessings:

- CPEC multi billion project between Pakistan and China;
- Nasr capability putting Indian Cold doctrine in the freezer;
- Babur 2 upgradation and enhancement;
- Babur 3 SLCM completing the triad and initiating the way to greater success.

Pakistan is on a roll here.

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## Basel

The Deterrent said:


> It seems so. It was only supposed to be a symbolic tradition anyways.
> Shaheen-IA/III and Babur-II/III all don't have corresponding Hatf designations.



If I m not wrong then it's Hatf-VIII series.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Indika said:


> Leasing & helping build are two different things.




Another indian retard who thinks indians invented everything.............

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## Mrc

We need to bring dleivery date for those chinese subs closer... one or two will definitely give night mares to our enemies.... 

One more thing .... cpec looks pretty secure now

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> They did both.... and even your own people have written about it..... infact your own people claim that without russian help arihant would have never seen day light.
> 
> 
> *Enter the Russians*
> 
> 
> 
> The project was re-launched in 1985 under Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) co-ordination with the codename Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV). With a retired vice admiral in charge, work on a prototype reactor began at the Kalpakkam nuclear power plant.
> 
> *“But the project was still not getting anywhere,” says V. Koithara in the book Managing India’s Nuclear Forces. “India then sought and got much more substantial Russian help than had been envisaged earlier. The construction of the submarine’s hull began in 1998, and a basically Russian-designed 83 megawatt pressurised-water reactor was fitted in the hull nine years later.”*
> 
> *Ashok Parthasarthi, a former science and technology adviser to the late Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, sums up the extent of Russian assistance: “India's first indigenous nuclear submarine, INS Arihant...would have just been impossible to realise without Russia’s massive all-round consultancy, technology transfer, technical services and training, technical 'know-how' and 'show-how,' design of the submarine as a whole, and above all numerous operational 'tips' based on 50 years of experience in designing, building and operating nuclear submarines.”*
> 
> According to Bidwai,* “Scores of Russian engineers were sent to India to aid the DAE and DRDO....It was the Russians who supplied the vital designs, precision equipment based on their VM-5 reactor, and the technology of miniaturising the reactor.”*
> 
> And if there were *any doubts about the extent of Russian involvement, they were cast away on July 26, 2009 when 143 Russian engineers, designers and consultants – all participants in the project – attended the boomer’s launch ceremony at Visakhapatnam on the east coast.*
> 
> Misguided move?
> 
> As well as Arihant class boomers, the Indian Navy also plans to acquire as many as six nuclear-powered attack submarines or sub surface nuclear (SSN). India is reportedly holding discussions with shipbuilders from France and the US on participating in the SSN project. This seems wrong in so many ways.
> 
> Unlike western support, *Russian assistance comes with no strings attached. “Although Russian assistance was extended throughout the 25-year designing and building of Arihant, at no time did anyone in the Russian government ever even mention any end-use restriction,” Parthasarthi points out.*
> 
> This is significant in the backdrop of India’s quest for diversification in defence purchases. Parthasarthi contrasts Russian military sales with American assistance. “And yet, if India were to import some incomparably low-tech electronic warfare equipment from the US, the US government will demand the application of the end user monitoring agreement.”
> 
> When choosing a partner for its future nuclear sub fleet, the Navy brass and the political leadership should bear in mind that the US has traditionally been an unreliable partner in almost every area but especially in defence matters.
> 
> France, which welched on the $1 billion Mistral deal with Russia, is no better. Where once it pursued an independent foreign policy, Paris’ interests are now closely aligned with those of the US. French armed forces are partnering the US in a range of conflicts in the Middle East.
> 
> “If an Indo-Pak war occurs or we conduct nuclear device tests, the NATO government of the foreign supplier will embargo all supplies of spares and technical services, thereby immobilising our imported weapon systems. Only Russia has never applied embargoes on us,” Parthasarthi explains.
> 
> Also, India has had the opportunity, which no other country has had, to test drive foreign nuclear submarines. The Indian Navy was able to lease and operate a Charlie class Soviet submarine for three years beginning 1988.
> 
> Again, in 2012 India acquired an Akula II class nuclear attack submarine from the Russian Navy, with an option to buy the vessel after the lease expires. Three hundred Indian Navy personnel were trained in Russia for the operation of the submarine, which was renamed Chakra II.
> 
> Can you imagine the US, France or Germany offering India such terms?
> 
> And finally, costs. India spent Rs 300 billion on the Arihant project, reinventing the n-submarine. Had New Delhi asked for Russian assistance in the 1970s, the Indian Navy would have acquired a boomer at least a decade or two earlier – and for a lot less.
> 
> The sticker price for the six new SSNs is projected at Rs 1 trillion. The entire world knows how the French Rafale’s cost kept increasing like an ever expanding balloon, forcing India to cut its order from 126 aircraft to just 36. India’s future nuclear submarine fleet should not face a similar fate.
> 
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...m-submarine-ispr.471649/page-43#ixzz4VCLgiKPp
> http://in.rbth.com/blogs/stranger_t...usia-helped-deliver-indias-baby-boomer_533849
> 
> 
> http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/russians-helped-with-ins-arihants-heart-kakodkar-399140
> *
> The Arihant was developed completely with the help of Russians, and based on the older Russian Charlie class submarine, who comes with double hull to suppress the noise to make the ship more silent. Arihant’s heart, the nuclear reactor is designed by the BARC, who get full support from the Russian to miniaturize it and fit inside the submarine. The Arihant’s nuclear reactor is capable to generate 83 MW power, to propel and provide electricity to the Ship.*
> 
> http://defenceupdate.in/arihant-operational-thank-russia/




Bro, ignore them. The indians are completely delusional & mentally retarded. They think they are the pioneers and inventors of Western & Russian technology.......lol.....................lol.............

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Yeah of course. Afghan space satellites spotted it didn't they..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't want this momentous occasion to turn into a troll fest, but ONLY last month, I was arguing with an indian who I told that Pakistan ALREADY HAS a 2nd and 3rd strike nuclear capability and was severely ridiculed for it. He claimed that it would take at LEAST 3 decades for us to achieve that capability IF at all possible. I'm trying to find that thread but having difficulty in locating it. Don't know if someone can help me or not. But it seems that everything the indians say or wish for Pakistan, the EXACT OPPOSITE happens....................
> 
> With the above capability and the fact that we have had H-bomb capability since early 2011:
> 
> http://isis-online.org/isis-reports...g-nuclear-weapons-time-for-pakistan-to-rever/
> 
> it is now evident that Pakistan has more than enough capability to completely wipe india off the face of the earth should the need arise.
> 
> The damning evidence is that Pakistan is FAR FAR more militarily advanced than it publicly admits to. Not only do we have a triad of nuclear strike capabilities but the strong circumstantial evidence is that Pakistan also has ICBM, advanced ABM & indigenous capabilities to produced advanced fighter jets & other military hardware


 Yes, some of your neighboring folks take it way too personally. One guy was about to show his undergrad transcripts just to claim that how good he was with Calculus, which means that the Pak folks can never have anything substantial. Last time _Iblis _used such demagogues to substantiate his position vis-a-vis prostrating before _Hazret-i Adem_ (PBUH)...

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## The Deterrent

Basel said:


> If I m not wrong then it's Hatf-VIII series.


Yes you can assume that. However notice that Shaheen-I (Hatf-IV) and Shaheen-II (Hatf-VI) were designated with different numbers. So by that logic they should've given multiple Hatf designations to Babur as well. They probably decided not to because of the _dimagh ki dahi_ it would've made of the _Jirnail Saab_.

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## Dalit

dilpakistani said:


> to my indian friends... significance of the test is that it's a cruise missile not ballistic missile... Your brainless comparison it with k - series is some what a stupid one. Ballistic missiles are more difficult and technologically challenging to mount... however their usage and effectiveness is very limited. In contrast cruise missiles are easy to mount and their effectiveness and free hand usage is much much more versatile ...India still have to test cruise missiles from under water.



Indians are in a complete fix. This is not the first time we are witnessing this behavior. The Indians are even in denial about the existence of Pakistan after the partition.

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## AUz

Just read 44 pages of comments as my FIRST thing in the morning! Still haven't gotten out of bed. I just woke up and half asleep checked my phone randomly...and woah!! I read the headline of Babur 3 submarine launched..Holy shit!!! All my sleep was gone and I went inside the thread like a fool. Read literally 44 pages straight 

Alhamdullilah!! Congratulations to Pakistan, and our scientists and engineers. Great news!

Don't stop now. Keep moving forward. May Allah be with Pakistan.

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## Malik Usman

Jonah Arthur said:


> You made my day. Kill me guys.


----------



## The Sandman

Moonlight said:


> HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA
> 
> 
> Torturing torturing yes it is torturing.
> 
> @django @The Sandman @Zibago @Hell hound @The Eagle @Jonah Arthur
> 
> View attachment 367189
> View attachment 367190
> View attachment 367191
> View attachment 367192
> View attachment 367193
> View attachment 367194
> View attachment 367195


Some people are realllllly buuuuuurning 



Jonah Arthur said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER Where are you guys. I miss you.
> @save_ghenda @The Sandman @The Deterrent @Moonlight @Zibago @django


How are you?

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## Danish saleem

Devil Soul said:


>



i think today PN have clear edge on IN, in terms of 2nd strike capability.

Long Live Pakistan


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## Leo~Calicratis

now this is the BIG SHOT and a slap in the faces out there in washington! BTW, now put some b@d@$$ Shaheen BMs on ur subs... it'll, am more than sure of that, create a knee jerking dancing scenario in delhi

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## Shotgunner51

This is breaking news in Chinese media, readers and netizens are all congratulating on huge success of "Pak Iron" aka iron brothers!

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## somebozo

JD_In said:


> NO...there are loopholes in the system hence we got Russian Nuke on lease long back which laid the foundation to Indian Nuke Sub Arihant.....Russia said they didnt sell it.....china can do the same, it just that we had money to pay whereas in case of Pak, China will have to lend it or give it for free as both have a common enemy,,,,



Ever heard of lend lease? that is how the Americans armed Europe and Soviet Union against Germany

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## Moonlight

Shotgunner51 said:


> This is breaking news in Chinese media, readers and netizens are allcongratulating on huge success of "Pak Iron" aka iron brothers.
> 
> View attachment 367246

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## Dalit

Shotgunner51 said:


> This is breaking news in Chinese media, readers and netizens are allcongratulating on huge success of "Pak Iron" aka iron brothers.
> 
> View attachment 367246



Thanks bro. We don't expect any different from our iron brothers.

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## jaydee

After India's ICBM test,China must have prodded us for this test.
All adversaries must have taken notice.

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## Bhupendra Singh_Cyan

Another weapon of killing millions in one go. 
Now we would follow with that K series Missile to be tested this month .
Damn what kind of Armageddon do we South Asians want 

Anyways congratulations to Pakistan on this success .
I just wish it never gets fired. 
Peace

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## Penguin

war&peace said:


> What do you have to say @Penguin ? Do you remember I told you that Pakistan has the ability to launch Babur SLCM from its Agosta-90Bs using Torpedo tubes.


Congratulations Pakistan.

Of course, as you seem to have forgotten, I never denied the possibility of firing cruise missiles from any conventional sub. However, I believe only information that can be factually verified e.g. from imagery, official statements etc. and am sceptical of unverifiable hearsay. The actual launch capability was not untill today (apparently) verifiable So, good luck with your imaginary 'victory'. No reason whatsoever to change my approach to information.

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## Djinn

Mentee said:


> Itni khushi
> 
> Chuk k rakh  @Sarge @Djinn @war&peace @Maxpane @Morse_Code
> 
> Ethy rakh malangi
> Leave him bro ,lets not spoil the party  @The Sandman @Doordie @tps77 @SherDil007 @The Eagle guys show your bhangra moves  Buraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 367184
> View attachment 367186

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## Penguin

Devil Soul said:


> The missile was fired from an underwater, mobile platform and hit its target with precise accuracy.


What does that mean exactly? Was it or was it not an Agosta 90B?


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## Syed1.

I hope this missile is able to transport Burnol. It is in severe shortage in India at the moment.

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## Tiger Awan

ok guys check this 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818467434885771268









he basically thinks the video covered whole flight of the missile

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## Dalit

Syed1. said:


> I hope this missile is able to transport Burnol. It is in severe shortage in India at the moment.



LMAO


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## Penguin

Emmie said:


> Pakistan is the only nuclear state without sea deterrent. Well, no more, no more!


Well, one missile launch does not yet make a credible sea based nuclear deterrent....


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Penguin said:


> Well, one missile launch does not yet make a credible sea based nuclear deterrent....


Our resident Naval officer claims.. the first test was conducted 2 years back.

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## Dalit

The accuracy is just mind blowing!

I remember how we started off with our ballistic missiles. How we improved our capability despite the cynics disproving and mocking. Look where we stand today with our various ballistic and cruise missiles. An impregnable arsenal. Our sea based missiles won't be any different. Expecting many variants in the coming years.

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## Areesh

Tiger Awan said:


> ok guys check this
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818467434885771268
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he basically thinks the video covered whole flight of the missile




LMAO. 

Jitni mehnat yeh video fake sabit karnai kai liye kar raha itni matric kai exams main karlaita to first division main paas ho jata.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Tiger Awan said:


> ok guys check this
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818467434885771268
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he basically thinks the video covered whole flight of the missile


This is not verified twitter account. This guy seems crazy and uneducated. Looks like 13 year old child


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## Riz

The Deterrent said:


> It is a generic statement, issued for strategic tests every time. The NOTAMs and Coastal Warnings are much more precise and always authentic.


 As we r testing missile from sea to land , so maybe there is no need to set NOTAMs


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## Mentee

Djinn said:


>


Djinn now when we fire Babar in some real hot mode , deliver it a hundred miles further than its official range

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## Djinn

Syed1. said:


> I hope this missile is able to transport Burnol. It is in severe shortage in India at the moment.


Apparently it's need just spread from Pakistan's East to West......


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## Penguin

Areesh said:


> ISPR has clearly said it was a submarine.


Just considering possibilities: did they explicitly say it was a PN submarine?


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## Khanate

Hassan Guy said:


> Hopefully, go back just a decade no one thought SLCM's would be fired from Pakistani subs




If you go back a few weeks, some people were opening silly threads.

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## Penguin

Hassan Guy said:


> They are powered by AIP system.


That does not make them NOT diesel-electric.


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## Ninja Turtle

Allah'hu Akbar...


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## war&peace

Penguin said:


> Congratulations Pakistan.
> The actual launch capability was not untill today (apparently) verifiable So, good luck with your* imaginary '*victory'. No reason whatsoever to change my approach to information.



Wow ...you are still calling this an imaginary victory even after the official confirmation...that's really sad and do you really think that Pakistan acquired this capability today..wow...if you think it takes sometime to prepare when I told you I had knowledge. Perhaps you will be sane enough to know that not all information especially related to defence is available on wikipedia..your only source of info.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Bhupendra Singh_Cyan said:


> Another weapon of killing millions in one go.
> Now we would follow with that K series Missile to be tested this month .
> Damn what kind of Armageddon do we South Asians want
> 
> Anyways congratulations to Pakistan on this success .
> I just wish it never gets fired.
> Peace


This is for minimum deterrence policy. I too wish we both don't use any missile. Peace

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## razgriz19

The Deterrent said:


> Upgraded Babur GLCM. Sort of block 2.



Have we tested it already? I remember the last test was just labelled as a routine operational test. That must have been Babur-2 then?


----------



## war&peace

Penguin said:


> Well, one missile launch does not yet make a credible sea based nuclear deterrent....


How many tests make it credible in your mind? While if you see the video, the missile hit the target with pin-point accuracy.

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## Leo~Calicratis

it's a submarine launched version which is some sort of very sophisticated complex in technological aspects. guessing the future versions will be of greater in range...



rana MRL said:


> Babur v2 range is 700 km ,,, Babur SLCM has 450 km range ,, any senior member explain the reduction in range,,, answer welcome...

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## Jaanbaz

Syed1. said:


> I hope this missile is able to transport Burnol. It is in severe shortage in India at the moment.



And Netherlands too it seems. The Dutch guy is going crazy over it.

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## Dalit

Zen0 said:


> Congrats china
> 
> 
> Ya congratulations on becoming a nuclear tried , unfortunately you are 7 years late to the game .
> 
> India was a nuclear triad sibce 2009
> 
> 
> http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-first-indigenous-nuclear-sub-is-inducted-into-the-navy-1277218



First learn to spell the word triad.

LOL at this Indian fool downplaying the power of nuke triad capability.

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## Penguin

Hassan Guy said:


> But our current subs don't have VLS, how where they fired from the torpedo tubes?


Just like Harpoon and Exocet and YJ082 are: as an encapsulated missile

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Zen0 said:


> Congrats china
> 
> 
> Ya congratulations on becoming a nuclear tried , unfortunately you are 7 years late to the game .
> 
> India was a nuclear triad sibce 2009
> 
> 
> http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-first-indigenous-nuclear-sub-is-inducted-into-the-navy-1277218





Here comes another one........ .........lol........indianium delirium............these retarded delusional fantasist honestly believe they invented everything and are responsible for the inventions in Western & Russian science and technology........lol......

indian logic: 

Pakistan will NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance. It is impossible to do so.

Pakistan will NEVER EVER have the capability to have a triad of nuclear delivery systems.

Anyone see the pattern here from the incretinous creatures... lol..........

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## Penguin

Jaanbaz said:


> And Netherlands too it seems. The Dutch guy is going crazy over it.


Like 0 posts in the first 45 pages crazy?


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## Dalit

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Here comes another one........ .........lol........indianium delirium............these retarded delusional fantasist honestly believe they invented everything and are responsible for the inventions in Western & Russian science and technology........lol......
> 
> indian logic:
> 
> Pakistan will NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance. It is impossible to do so.
> 
> Pakistan will NEVER EVER have the capability to have a triad of nuclear delivery systems.
> 
> Anyone see the pattern here from the incretinous creatures... lol..........



I love it how they have been in denial all these years. Downplaying Pakistan's capabilities and strengths. Yet, 70 years have gone by and all these Indians have done is talk. First they denied our nuke capability. We slapped them in the face so hard they were in disbelief. Then, we were somehow incapable of producing delivery systems. We slapped them in the face again. State of the art ballistic and cruise missiles were produced. Then, we were incapable of building our second strike capability. Today, we have dispelled that myth as well. All they can do now is argue and lick their wounds. They stand disgraced and red faced arguing like a silly toddler. We are enjoying their frustration and disbelief.

Today we are owning them left and right with CPEC and our defense capabilities. All they can do is burn in anger and comfort themselves with lies. Today is a very special day. One our grandchildren will cherish for a long time to come. Don't underestimate the significance of this enormous game changing development. It puts Pakistan in the top tier bracket. It secures the future of our land and children to a whole new level.

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## Penguin

snow lake said:


> Surely a horizontal launch is more challenging than vertical launch.


Not really.

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## war&peace

Leo~Calicratis said:


> it's a submarine launched version which is some sort of very sophisticated complex in technological aspects. guessing the future versions will be of greater in range...


It can be due to the reduction in diameter to fit the existing torpedo tubes i.e. 533 mm and also a lot of energy is consumed during the launch from the horizontal tubes and reaching the surface. This will be improved once submarines with VLS become available. Though a better engine and design can also result in range extension.

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## Jaanbaz

Penguin said:


> Like 0 posts in the first 30 pages crazy?



I just read one of your post and it gave me the impression that you are clearly not happy with something. The amount of posts does not define your craziness, I usually like your posts but this time you seem a little disturbed.

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## Leo~Calicratis

been said. NUKE CAPABLE... so it's not less a ton 



Guynextdoor2 said:


> warhead weight?

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## Taimoor Khan

The Deterrent said:


> It is a generic statement, issued for strategic tests every time. The NOTAMs and Coastal Warnings are much more precise and always authentic.



http://m.ispr.gov.pk/front/main.asp?o=t-press_release&latest=1

_Dated: January 9, 2017
No PR14/2017-ISPR
Rawalpindi - January 9, 2017: 
Pakistan conducted its first successful test fire of Submarine Launched Cruise Missile (SLCM) Babur-3 having a range of 450 kilometers, from an undisclosed location in the *Indian Ocean*_

And yes I have read the notam which was issued I believe last week and as far as I remember, it expired. 

Unless, people in ISPR don't know the difference between Arabian Sea and Indian ocean, which I don't think they are that dumb, as it stands, Indian ocean was the source of launch.


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## Leo~Calicratis

yeah, it's nuclear capable and Babur-III SLCM is landed on planet earth to fulfill Pakistan's nuclear triad's sea-leg. 
and, there's some other jobs to be done. those are SLBMs and ICBMs  



Baybars Han said:


> Does this mean Pakistan can have a sea based nuclear detterent? Can you put a nuclear warhead on it? If this is done, the only thing left I think is working towards ICBM.

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## Areesh

Penguin said:


> Just considering possibilities: did they explicitly say it was a PN submarine?



Do they need to say that? Isn't it obvious?

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## Leo~Calicratis

war&peace said:


> It can be due to the reduction in diameter to fit the existing torpedo tubes i.e. 533 mm and also a lot of energy is consumed during the launch from the horizontal tubes and reaching the surface. This will be improved once submarines with VLS become available. Though a better engine and design can also result in range extension.


technically, YES!

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## A.M.

Awesome news. Historic moment here.

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## Penguin

tanlixiang28776 said:


> So with the upcoming 8 Yuan based export submarines which hold can hold up to 18 torpedoes or missiles internally Pakistan could realistically have up to 96 SLCM from those subs alone factoring each sub having 6 torpedoes each. They could also very likely come with dedicated vertical launch systems which would allow much greater capacity and size of missile. Im not sure if its easier to add a nuclear warhead to a Chinese SLCM or use Pakistani SLCMs in a Chinese sub. But if they use a Chinese one they would come with 3000km range from the start and very cheap prices if bundled


Which would then be incapable of self-defence or any other type of action but SLCM launch.....


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Areesh said:


> Do they need to say that? Isn't it obvious?


If it's not a PN submarine, shouldn't it be the cause of even more concern for the Indian folks???

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## razgriz19

rana MRL said:


> Babur v2 range is 700 km ,,, Babur SLCM has 450 km range ,, any senior member explain the reduction in range,,, answer welcome...



My guess would be reduction in length of the missile (fuel tank). They have to be able to fit that thing in agosta's launch tubes. And they would've had to decrease the diameter as well, and the missile is stored inside a capsule so the water doesn't get inside. 
That would definitely take away the range.


----------



## Areesh

HAKIKAT said:


> If it's not a PN submarine, shouldn't it be the cause of even more concern for the Indian folks???



true. But I don't think that is the case. Augusta90b can fire babur CM and I don't think this is something surprising for us. In coming days and weeks situation would get clear further.

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## Penguin

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Our resident Naval officer claims.. the first test was conducted 2 years back.


Even then. For one thing, you'ld need more than 3 boats. You need about 5 to have 1 at sea at all times.



war&peace said:


> Wow ...you are still calling this an imaginary victory even after the official confirmation...that's really sad and do you really think that Pakistan acquired this capability today..wow...if you think it takes sometime to prepare when I told you I had knowledge. Perhaps you will be sane enough to know that not all information especially related to defence is available on wikipedia..your only source of info.


I'm calling your post an imaginary victory. Not the apparent launch. But if that's too fine a distinction for you ...
I've been saying (and this is verifiable at this forum) that in principle any SSK can launch SLCMs. I've also stated that I found no information confirming PN has the ability for encapsulated launch. I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but what is so sad is your need to somehow make this a 'See, I was right all along' when you don't even are able to actually understand what I said. That you still feel inferior about that is evidenced by your wikipedia-stab, which is not only blatantly and verifiably wrong but also childish.

I congratule Pakistan. I feel sorry for you @war&peace.

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## Dalit

HAKIKAT said:


> If it's not a PN submarine, shouldn't it be the cause of even more concern for the Indian folks???



The Indians are still arguing about the color of the missile LOL We will have to wait for denial to change into reality. It is a difficult and painful process. Will require time to sink in.

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## Penguin

Jaanbaz said:


> I just read one of your post and it gave me the impression that you are clearly not happy with something. The amount of posts does not define your craziness, I usually like your posts but this time you seem a little disturbed.


What disturbs me is the behavior of one particular poster, who attempts to make out as if I denied Pakistan's existing capability's and who is unable to cope with the fact that one should remain properly cautious in the absense of hard evidence. In short, he makes it into a personal thing, whic it isn't and never was for me. Otherwise congrats Pakistan. Hope you don't mind if I still continue to use my brain, festivities notwithstanding.

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## Dungeness

Congratulations, Pakistan brothers! What a way to start a new year!

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## Penguin

Areesh said:


> Do they need to say that? Isn't it obvious?


I don't take anthing for granted. It was suggested by 'green bleeding' members that at least some Pak missile tests occurred in other countries. If so, then why would it not be a possibility that a foreign sub conducted the firing? I did not say that was the case, I inquired if that was a possibility, given the peculiar description 'underwater, mobile platform'.

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## The Deterrent

Taimoor Khan said:


> http://m.ispr.gov.pk/front/main.asp?o=t-press_release&latest=1
> 
> _Dated: January 9, 2017
> No PR14/2017-ISPR
> Rawalpindi - January 9, 2017:
> Pakistan conducted its first successful test fire of Submarine Launched Cruise Missile (SLCM) Babur-3 having a range of 450 kilometers, from an undisclosed location in the *Indian Ocean*_
> 
> And yes I have read the notam which was issued I believe last week and as far as I remember, it expired.
> 
> Unless, people in ISPR don't know the difference between Arabian Sea and Indian ocean, which I don't think they are that dumb, as it stands, Indian ocean was the source of launch.








The Indian Ocean starts about 1500km out from Pakistani coast. They are not dumb, they just like to jumble up things.

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## JamD

The Deterrent said:


> The Indian Ocean starts about 1500km out from Pakistani coast. They are not dumb, they just like to jumble up things.



I am quite sure the Arabian Sea is PART OF THE INDIAN OCEAN. A lot of folks here seem to be confused about this. Not that it matters. We have the NOTAM.

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## The Deterrent

riz1978 said:


> As we r testing missile from sea to land , so maybe there is no need to set NOTAMs


Nope, any sort of test weapon firing at this scale without issuing corresponding warnings to the air and naval traffic can simply not be done. It is the part of the relevant party's standard operating procedure.

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## Talha Asif



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## Arabic_Ottoman

Congrats. Any information on what type of submarine carried the missile?.

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## Penguin

Leo~Calicratis said:


> technically, YES!


Nop, because the encapsulated missile itself doesn 't fire while under water. It only fires after its capsule breaches the surface. The capsule is ejected by the submarine and goes up to the surface without tapping into the power of the missile..

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## Mrc

just by looking at the accuracy , hiting a red flag pole erected in middle of desert, it can be presumed its not the first test of the system....

its pretty much a mature system

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## Star Expedition

It proves that Pak is a safe and secure place for work and investment

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## The Eagle

The statements that I read and noted a bit of information, I will ink down my observations as following. (Not my field at all). First of all, by the grace of ALLAH, we have the capability of Second Strike by Babur-III.


If it was the first test then obviously we wouldn't risk one of our Sub because, there are always possibilities of technical glitches or error so Sub cannot be risked, therefore, in layman's terms, a replica like Sub (a platform representing Sub) with same style of launch, tube push, ejection is used and every bit of details and readings are noted for finalization etc purpose. As a platform, not an original Sub, is used then still the weapon be called as SLCM due to its purpose and method as well as real goal. By doing so, finally taking everything into account, the weapon become mature and can be launched from original/targeted Sub and be called operational as successful in final test hence induction.
The weapon is being tested extensively for time to time to it's real/aimed and targeted results and once every thing is finalized/trusted after all checkups, is being tested again from original launch platform on the basis of all previous tests from replica/test platform.
It is true that a new weapon will not be tested from original platform directly but has to reach to such stage after trials through test platform.
As @Rashid Mahmood said, test was done almost 2 years ago, actually tells that this weapon matured through test platform during 2 years hence finally launched from original Sub hence is equal to having the capability in final stage.
If we go by the term launched from underwater platform so it may be the same launching platform called as replica in this post, to finalize the launch, weapon, tube exit etc and then, as results are satisfactory, will again be tested from original Sub (Augosta 90B etc).
The confusion w.r.t. launch platform will be more clear in coming days but professional and informed posters words are to be taken as credible for the moment as well by looking at accuracy of hitting the target, seems like a lot of work is already done and many readings were available from previous tests. 
@Oscar @Khafee @Rashid Mahmood @The Deterrent

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## Dalit

Mrc said:


> just by looking at the accuracy , hiting a red flag pole erected in middle of desert, it can be presumed its not the first test of the system....
> 
> its pretty much a mature system



Most definitely. This missile has been through rigorous testing before. The accuracy is simply put stupendous. There is no other explanation for this kind of pinpoint accuracy which can only be achieved through extensive trial and error.

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## Taimoor Khan

The Deterrent said:


> The Indian Ocean starts about 1500km out from Pakistani coast. They are not dumb, they just like to jumble up things.



I know where Arabian sea start. Indian ocean naval capability is proper blue water navy territory. 

Another way to look at it, just like shaheen 3 was officially never one kilometer above stated 2750 km range, which we all know is complete bollocks, Babur has been reported 1500km+ range, which fits into stated Indian ocean launch.

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## Menace2Society

2nd strike capability achieved. Well done!







Now need ICBM to keep the two faced friends at bay.

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## gowthamraj

Really surprised!!!!! This is great achiachievement for Pakistan. You deserve celebration Hope our lazy DRDO pick up in Nirbhay

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## The Deterrent

Taimoor Khan said:


> I know where Arabian sea start. Indian ocean naval capability is proper blue water navy territory.
> 
> Another way to look at it, just like shaheen 3 was officially never one kilometer above stated 2750 km range, which we all know is complete bollocks, Babur has been reported 1500km+ range, which fits into stated Indian ocean launch.

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## Mitro

Check this old video from 10.46

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## Osiris

Congratulations,

Finally, the first test launch of a missile, which Pakistani poster have been claiming, was tested in 2009 itself, based on some US objection to some modified harpoons.

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## Areesh

Penguin said:


> I don't take anthing for granted. It was suggested by 'green bleeding' members that at least some Pak missile tests occurred in other countries. If so, then why would it not be a possibility that a foreign sub conducted the firing? I did not say that was the case, I inquired if that was a possibility, given the peculiar description 'underwater, mobile platform'.



I don't believe that some of our tests were conducted in some others countries. So nope I don't think there is any probability of what you were trying to say.


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## BHarwana

https://www.rt.com/news/373130-pakistan-tests-first-seaborne-nuke/
Here is a report from Russian media

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## BHarwana

Abba Hazoor said:


> I was wondering the same.


This is a stealth version not detectable by RADAR. That is why low range. There were two missile tests and I don't understand why was the other one not reported on media.

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## Osiris

BHarwana said:


> This is a stealth version not detectable by RADAR. That is why low range. There were two missile tests and I don't understand why was the other one not reported on media.



It is also invisible to naked eye, unless some one is wearing Green glasses.

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## Osiris

Cruise missiles especially those which have to be fired from torpedo tubes of Submarine, make than less than ideal nuclear delivery platforms because of their.

1 ) Low range
2) Very limited warhead size and weight capacity.
3) Relatively Easier to intercept due to low speeds.

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## Mrc

Osiris said:


> Cruise missiles especially those which have to be fired from torpedo tubes of Submarine, make than less than ideal nuclear delivery platforms because of their.
> 
> 1 ) Low range
> 2) Very limited warhead size and weight capacity.
> 3) *Relatively Easier to intercept due to low speeds*.




talk when you intercept one.....

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## BHarwana

Osiris said:


> Cruise missiles especially those which have to be fired from torpedo tubes of Submarine, make than less than ideal nuclear delivery platforms because of their.
> 
> 1 ) Low range
> 2) Very limited warhead size and weight capacity.
> 3) Relatively Easier to intercept due to low speeds.



This is stealth not visible on RADAR and have you ever hear a term sea skimming means Relatively very difficult to intercept. US ship in the bay of hormuz was also not able to detect it with RADAR as reported.
The limited war head size is a problem for India not for Pakistan and limited war head size is more difficult to achieve than the large war head size.

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## Falcon26

Osiris said:


> Cruise missiles especially those which have to be fired from torpedo tubes of Submarine, make than less than ideal nuclear delivery platforms because of their.
> 
> 1 ) Low range
> 2) Very limited warhead size and weight capacity.
> 3) Relatively Easier to intercept due to low speeds.



I wonder why the US has relied frequently on its slow moving easy to intercept cruise missiles to strike far away targets.

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## ali_raza

i have read all51 pages all for the love of this achievement.m very happy congratulations to all pakistanis and our brother nations

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## Osiris

Mrc said:


> talk when you intercept one.....



That's is what Barak 1 and 2 anti missile systems have been doing, all these years.

India is now able to intercept high mach speeds, high trajectory Ballistic missiles in its ABM program.
Intercepting a subsonic cruise missile is relatively much easier.

Just a few weeks ago, a US destroyer intercepted and destroyed a sea skimming missile.



Falcon26 said:


> I wonder why the US has relied frequently on its slow moving easy to intercept cruise missiles to strike far away targets.



Because they are cheap and their intended targets has no air defenses, much less a missile defense in place.

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## Taimoor Khan

Abba Hazoor said:


> Good point. Official range is never stated. For all we know the Shaheen 3 is an ICBM with underreported range. Same with this Babur SLCM.



Try using Google earth range finder option. Draw a straight line from Andaman nicobar Islands towards Pakistan. With 2750KM, you are bearly touching the south east tip of Pakistan, the tharparkar desert. It's laughable that Pakistan will move shaheen 3 TEL next to Indian border to hit those strategic Islands. That beast is definitely 3500+ range. But if you say that loud, those sitting in Tel Aviv will have heart attack. Same is the case with Babur specially it's naval version.

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## Windjammer

Osiris said:


> Cruise missiles especially those which have to be fired from torpedo tubes of Submarine, make than less than ideal nuclear delivery platforms because of their.
> 
> 1 ) Low range
> 2) Very limited warhead size and weight capacity.
> 3) Relatively Easier to intercept due to low speeds.



I'm sure until today they were all were effective and efficient, pity Pakistan now has this capability, suddenly it's redundant.
Wonder why every major media network is giving Pakistani test major coverage.

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## Blue Marlin

Jonah Arthur said:


> That day will come when we recieve first batch of eurofighters. Trust me.


really, or is that fiction?

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## Falcon26

Osiris said:


> That's is what Barak 1 and 2 anti missile systems have been doing, all these years.
> 
> India is now able to intercept high mach speeds, high trajectory Ballistic missiles in its ABM program.
> Intercepting a subsonic cruise missile is relatively much easier.
> 
> Just a few weeks ago, a US destroyer intercepted and destroyed a sea skimming missile.
> 
> 
> 
> Because they are cheap and their intended targets has no air defenses, much less a missile defense in place.



I forgot to say your policy makers must be really idiotic trying to emulate Tomahawk/Babur 3 in creating a slow moving easy to intercept Nirbhy. 

I understand you guys are having a horrible day today, but you guys shouldn't make it so obvious. You guys need to have some class.

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## The Sandman

Falcon26 said:


> I understand you guys are having a horrible day today, but you guys shouldn't make it so obvious. You guys need to have some class.


On their forums and on social media they've gone completely mad it was a really difficult day for them.

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## Osiris

Windjammer said:


> I'm sure until today they were all were effective and efficient, pity Pakistan now has this capability, suddenly it's redundant.
> Wonder why every major media network is giving Pakistani test major coverage.



Was it, If so then why don't any of the 5 major nuclear powers, use torpedo lunched cruise missiles as their primary second strike armament ?

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## Areesh

Falcon26 said:


> I forgot to say your policy makers must be really idiotic trying to emulate Tomahawk/Babur 3 in creating a slow moving easy to intercept Nirbhy.
> 
> I understand you guys are having a horrible day today, but you guys shouldn't make it so obvious. You guys need to have some class.



Go to their forums. You can see these guys with even worst of justifications including that this is all fake and a drama and Pakistan has no SLCM.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Dalit said:


> I love it how they have been in denial all these years. Downplaying Pakistan's capabilities and strengths. Yet, 70 years have gone by and all these Indians have done is talk. First they denied our nuke capability. We slapped them in the face so hard they were in disbelief. Then, we were somehow incapable of producing delivery systems. We slapped them in the face again. State of the art ballistic and cruise missiles were produced. Then, we were incapable of building our second strike capability. Today, we have dispelled that myth as well. All they can do now is argue and lick their wounds. They stand disgraced and red faced arguing like a silly toddler. We are enjoying their frustration and disbelief.
> 
> Today we are owning them left and right with CPEC and our defense capabilities. All they can do is burn in anger and comfort themselves with lies. Today is a very special day. One our grandchildren will cherish for a long time to come. Don't underestimate the significance of this enormous game changing development. It puts Pakistan in the top tier bracket. It secures the future of our land and children to a whole new level.




All of this despite the fact that that when Pakistan was created, we were born in a state that NO OTHER country has survived for more than 3 years. NO nation on earth has achieved as much as Pakistan has in the defence field that has had so many restrictions and sanctions placed on it with regards to access to advanced high-technology and sciences

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## Osiris

Falcon26 said:


> I forgot to say your policy makers must be really idiotic trying to emulate Tomahawk/Babur 3 in creating a slow moving easy to intercept Nirbhy.
> 
> I understand you guys are having a horrible day today, but you guys shouldn't make it so obvious. You guys need to have some class.



I understand that your Pakistani roots won't let you digest clear verifiable facts, especially today.

But its it truth.

And Why India is developing a subsonic cruise missile when it has Supersonic cruise missile and hypersonic ballistic missiles. 
offcourse because they are much cheaper to produce and fire enmasse on non strategic- unpotected targets.

The same reason, why American fired some 2000 Tomahawk missiles in first hours of second gulf war.

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## BHarwana

Osiris said:


> That's is what Barak 1 and 2 anti missile systems have been doing, all these years.
> 
> India is now able to intercept high mach speeds, high trajectory Ballistic missiles in its ABM program.
> Intercepting a subsonic cruise missile is relatively much easier.
> 
> Just a few weeks ago, a US destroyer intercepted and destroyed a sea skimming missile.



These Baraks are powered by a scram jet engine a 10 year old boy can develop a jet engine with no moving parts and this engine type can only intercept a target that is moving on a constant speed or a constant change of speed towards increase and if an incoming missile has a capability of decreasing speed which cruise missile have these interceptors cannot stop them as the scram jet engine can not speed down easily so slow cruise missiles are a best way to deliver India with a payload Pakistan wants to that is why this missile was designed and tested and is developed plus it is a best way to destroy the old piece of airship carrier India has.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Areesh said:


> Go to their forums. You can see these guys with even worst of justifications including that this is all fake and a drama and Pakistan has no SLCM.




Take no notice of them. They are delusional retarded deformed creatures. These bollywood fantasiests claim that Pakistan also does not have nuclear weapons......

If you want truthful, reliable, honest and accurate news then you will NEVER EVER get it from an indian. Please never forget that.



Osiris said:


> I understand that your Pakistani roots won't let you digest clear verifiable facts, especially today.
> 
> But its it truth.
> 
> And Why India is developing a subsonic cruise missile when it has Supersonic cruise missile and hypersonic ballistic missiles.
> offcourse because they are much cheaper to produce and fire enmasse on non strategic- unpotected targets.
> 
> The same reason, why American fired some 2000 Tomahawk missiles in first hours of second gulf war.





According to indian truth and logic, Pakistan will NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance. It is impossible to do so...............................lol.......

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## terry5



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## Osiris

BHarwana said:


> These Baraks are powered by a scram jet engine a 10 year old boy can develop a jet engine with no moving parts and this engine type can only intercept a target that is moving on a constant speed or a constant change of speed towards increase and if an incoming missile has a capability of decreasing speed which cruise missile have these interceptors cannot stop them as the scram jet engine can not speed down easily so slow cruise missiles are a best way to deliver India with a payload Pakistan wants to that is why this missile was designed and tested and is developed plus it is a best way to destroy the old piece of airship carrier India has.



Lol Off course.

And Because they are of Israeli origin, they don't intercept any missiles on Sabath either.

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## terry5



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## BHarwana

Osiris said:


> Lol Off course.
> 
> And Because they are of Israeli origin, they don't intercept any missiles on Sabath either.



Why lol you have scram jet engine in those missiles and Scram is capable of intercepting fast targets only and is not good for slow ones. If a fast target has a trajectory changing capability it cannot intercept. Sacram jet is only fule efficient at a speed of above mach 3. your missiles are fired with a rocket booster to achieve a start speed for a scram jet engine


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## Osiris

BHarwana said:


> Why lol you have scram jet engine in those missiles and Scram is capable of intercepting fast targets only and is not good for slow ones. If a fast target has a trajectory changing capability it cannot intercept. Sacram jet is only fule efficient at a speed of above mach 3. your missiles are fired with a rocket booster to achieve a start speed for a scram jet engine



With my own eyes, I have witnessed Barak 1 intercepting a sea skimming P-20 missile at 7 NM range.


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## ghilzai

Go on Pakistan, you made me proud again, I will go Hungary, I will go without education and medicine but I will never compromise on solid defence.

A great day for us all Pakistanis.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Osiris said:


> With my own eyes, I have witnessed Barak 1 intercepting a sea skimming P-20 missile at 7 NM range.





But with indian eyes you have also seen that Pakistan will NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance.......lol..............

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## Bossman

Osiris said:


> Was it, If so then why don't any of the 5 major nuclear powers, use torpedo lunched cruise missiles as their primary second strike armament ?



We are not a Major Nuclear power with global ambitions. Our threat is in our neighborhood. That's why we don't need ICBMs or SLBMs. Our needs can be met at a fraction of the cost and much quicker using SLCMs. One day maybe We will even get ICBMs or SLBMs but right now we can't afford them or need them. BTW do you realize how stupid your post was? Your ability to think right has been compromised because of this news. Also US and other major powers do have SLCMs. Only India doesn't because Nirbhay has failed all its flights.

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## Krishnan

Devil Soul said:


> *Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor* ‏@OfficialDGISPR  5m5 minutes ago
> #Pakistan successfully test fired first Submarine launched Cruise Missile Babur-3. Rg 450 Km. #COAS congrats Nation and the team involved.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818427713627295745


This is good news for the Pakistani nation.


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## Falcon26

Osiris said:


> I understand that your Pakistani roots won't let you digest clear verifiable facts, especially today.
> 
> But its it truth.
> 
> And Why India is developing a subsonic cruise missile when it has Supersonic cruise missile and hypersonic ballistic missiles.
> offcourse because they are much cheaper to produce and fire enmasse on non strategic- unpotected targets.
> 
> The same reason, why American fired some 2000 Tomahawk missiles in first hours of second gulf war.



The Israeli who you guys rely so much for your missile defense systems must also be cheap and pathetic relying on tube fired SLCM. You can spin it whichever way you want but the fact remains that till today, the US which is the premier power in the world has stayed clear of supersonic cruise missiles. It's not because they are expensive or hard to intercept. 

So far you have produced no "verifiable facts" except boring opinions packaged as evidence. And I am not Pakistani but I understand why your comprehension skills are off today.



Osiris said:


> With my own eyes, I have witnessed Barak 1 intercepting a sea skimming P-20 missile at 7 NM range.



The same barak that failed miserable to intercept rudimentary Hizbollah homemade rockets? Give it a rest dude. You don't have to embarrass yourself like this.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

ghilzai said:


> Go on Pakistan, you made me proud again, I will go Hungary, I will go without education and medicine but I will never compromise on solid defence.
> 
> A great day for us all Pakistanis.


If u go hungry,with no education... than we are already doomed...

It is full bellies and education that are nessecary for defence n prosperity of a nation.

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## ghilzai

Falcon26 said:


> The Israeli who you guys rely so much for your missile defense systems must also be cheap and pathetic relying on tube fired SLCM. You can spin it whichever way you want but the fact remains that till today, the US which is the premier power in the world has stayed clear of supersonic cruise missiles. It's not because they are expensive or hard to intercept.
> 
> So far you have produced no "verifiable facts" except boring opinions packaged as evidence. And I am not Pakistani but I understand why your comprehension skills are off today.
> 
> 
> 
> The same barak that failed miserable to intercept rudimentary Hizbollah homemade rockets? Give it a rest dude. You don't have to embarrass yourself like this.



Why you bothering with him, he will not accept anything other then his distorted opinion.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> If u go hungry,with no education... than we are already doomed...
> 
> It is full bellies and education that are nessecary for defence n prosperity of a nation.



Am a Pukhtoon wroora, our love of arms is greater then even our love of women, trust me he he he.

Ps it was a figure of speech.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Osiris said:


> With my own eyes, I have witnessed Barak 1 intercepting a sea skimming P-20 missile at 7 NM range.


West prefers a subsonic yet smart CM... russians prefer fast yet dumb missiles... yakhont which they produced during cold war/

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## BHarwana

Osiris said:


> With my own eyes, I have witnessed Barak 1 intercepting a sea skimming P-20 missile at 7 NM range.


Yes that is what I am saying it intercepted a cruise missile made by India Brahmos which is different from Pakistani missiles. That is fast moving cruise missile which cannot speed down because India has no capability of producing jet engines as admitted by Indian engineers that is why India went for Raffys so that France will provide India with jet engine technology. India has problem with manufacturing the Blades of a jet engine and Russia was not providing it with technology. The area where India lacks that is why India refused SU 35s deal to russia and also rejected F16. but the tech of Raffy engine is not turbo fan jet engine india will receive only tech for jet engine under the contract to repair the Raffy domestically.

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## Osiris

Bossman said:


> We are not a Major Nuclear power with global ambitions. Our threat is in our neighborhood. That's why we don't need ICBMs or SLBMs. Our needs can be met at a fraction of the cost and much quicker using SLCMs. One day maybe We will even get ICBMs or SLBMs but right now we can't afford them or need them. BTW do you realize how stupid your post was? Your ability to think right has been compromised because of this news. Also US and other major powers do have SLCMs. Only India doesn't because Nirbhay has failed all its flights.



1) Firstly India has Land attack SLCM it called 3M54 Klub missile. It does not have an indigenous SLCM , but that is being rectified with submarine launched version of Bhramos.
India does not rely on subsonic cruise missiles for nuclear delivery , Just a day before India again tested its 3500 Km range SLBM.


2) If Pakistani objective is an appearance of credible second strike capability, which wont even cover 1% of Indian landmass with ability to carry just a few Killotone nuclear weapon, then offcourse it has been met by 450 Km range torpedo tube launched cruise missile.

How ever if Pakistani objective is comprehensive and assured second strike capability. With ability to target entire Indian land mass, with the highest yield nuclear weapon it has, even if its entire land based arsenal is wiped out. Then Pakistan has long way to go.

But as you say this is the best you can do, at the moment.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

ghilzai said:


> Why you bothering with him, he will not accept anything other then his distorted opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> Am a Pukhtoon wroora, our love of arms is greater then even our love of women, trust me he he he.
> 
> Ps it was a figure of speech.


Times have changed ... swords gave way to muskets and muskets to machine guns.... the west dominated due to education..

Even this missile is operational due to it.. times have changed brother.

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## BHarwana

Osiris said:


> 1) Firstly India has Land attack SLCM it called 3M54 Klub missile. It does not have an indigenous SLCM , but that is being rectified with submarine launched version of Bhramos.
> India does not rely on subsonic cruise missiles for nuclear delivery , Just a day before India again tested its 3500 Km range SLBM.
> 
> 
> 2) If Pakistani objective is an appearance of credible second strike capability, which wont even cover 1% of Indian landmass with ability to carry just a few Killotone nuclear weapon, then offcourse it has been met by 450 Km range torpedo tube launched cruise missile.
> 
> How ever if Pakistani objective is comprehensive and assured second strike capability. With ability to target entire Indian land mass, with the highest yield nuclear weapon it has, even if its entire land based arsenal is wiped out. Then Pakistan has long way to go.
> 
> But as you say this is the best you can do, at the moment.



Well If you want to know the objective of this missile it was to take out bombay with a nuke and it will do its job effectively

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Osiris said:


> 1) Firstly India has Land attack SLCM it called 3M54 Klub missile. It does not have an indigenous SLCM , but that is being rectified with submarine launched version of Bhramos.
> India does not rely on subsonic cruise missiles for nuclear delivery , Just a day before India again tested its 3500 Km range SLBM.
> 
> 
> 2) If Pakistani objective is an appearance of credible second strike capability, which wont even cover 1% of Indian landmass with ability to carry just a few Killotone nuclear weapon, then offcourse it has been met by 450 Km range torpedo tube launched cruise missile.
> 
> How ever if Pakistani objective is comprehensive and assured second strike capability. With ability to target entire Indian land mass, with the highest yield nuclear weapon it has, even if its entire land based arsenal is wiped out. Then Pakistan has long way to go.
> 
> But as you say this is the best you can do, at the moment.





indians also said it was MANY MANY decades before we get SLCM capability. Yet here it is  WE ALREADY HAVE ICBMs, SLBMs, H-bombs and much much more. It's just that we have not publicly acknowledged them or tested them. When the occasion requires, it will be made known to the world. Just like May 1998, so is now

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## HttpError

Osiris said:


> I understand that your Pakistani roots won't let you digest clear verifiable facts, especially today.
> 
> But its it truth.
> 
> And Why India is developing a subsonic cruise missile when it has Supersonic cruise missile and hypersonic ballistic missiles.
> offcourse because they are much cheaper to produce and fire enmasse on non strategic- unpotected targets.
> 
> The same reason, why American fired some 2000 Tomahawk missiles in first hours of second gulf war.



Plus stop embarrassing your self and and the people you represent. We can understand your heart burn but that does not mean you will talk like a goof.

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## Khanate

Abba Hazoor said:


> Next step launch ICBM test Insha Allah




*SLBM*: Perhaps
*ICBM*: No

What possible use do we have for an operational ICBM? None whatsoever. Its a complete waste of money. Instead invest in a launch vehicle.


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## Osiris

Falcon26 said:


> The Israeli who you guys rely so much for your missile defense systems must also be cheap and pathetic relying on tube fired SLCM. You can spin it whichever way you want but the fact remains that till today, the US which is the premier power in the world has stayed clear of supersonic cruise missiles. It's not because they are expensive or hard to intercept.
> 
> So far you have produced no "verifiable facts" except boring opinions packaged as evidence. And I am not Pakistani but I understand why your comprehension skills are off today.
> 
> 
> 
> The same barak that failed miserable to intercept rudimentary Hizbollah homemade rockets? Give it a rest dude. You don't have to embarrass yourself like this.



I never said, you are a Pakistani, I said you are of Pakistani origin. And I completely sympathize with you, if you deny that too.

Israel has to rely on its 1500 Km range SLCM for second strike capability because it is an undeclared nuclear weapons state, which does not have submarine building capabilities and none of its adversaries have nuclear weapons.

Their certain niche area, which Israel excels at, missile tracking and interception being one of them.

And their certain defense areas, which Israel almost totally ignores. Submarine and aircraft manufacturing being some of them. 

Barak missile complex which is deployed on naval ships being used to intercept Hezbollah's homemade rockets, that's a new one !! ..lol

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## khansaheeb

Surely Pakistan must have sealed its super power status now.


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## Khanate

Osiris said:


> 1) Firstly India has Land attack SLCM it called 3M54 Klub missile. It does not have an indigenous SLCM , but that is being rectified with submarine launched version of Bhramos.
> India does not rely on subsonic cruise missiles for nuclear delivery , Just a day before India again tested its 3500 Km range SLBM.
> 
> 
> 2) If Pakistani objective is an appearance of credible second strike capability, which wont even cover 1% of Indian landmass with ability to carry just a few Killotone nuclear weapon, then offcourse it has been met by 450 Km range torpedo tube launched cruise missile.
> 
> How ever if Pakistani objective is comprehensive and assured second strike capability. With ability to target entire Indian land mass, with the highest yield nuclear weapon it has, even if its entire land based arsenal is wiped out. Then Pakistan has long way to go.
> 
> But as you say this is the best you can do, at the moment.




1. MAD. *yawn* 

2. We don't have to destroy India necessarily, we just have to make it a nasty place to live.

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## Dalit

Khanate said:


> 1. MAD. *yawn*
> 
> 2. We don't have to destroy India necessarily, we just have to make it a nasty place to live.



LOL isn't it already a nasty place to live? Ask Indian women.

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## BHarwana

Dalit said:


> LOL isn't it already a nasty place to live? Ask Indian women.


They respect Kali Mata but Rape their Apni Mata. India has become a abuse to women rights and citizen security.

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## Dalit

Osiris said:


> I never said, you are a Pakistani, I said you are of Pakistani origin. And I completely sympathize with you, if you deny that too.
> 
> Israel has to rely on its 1500 Km range SLCM for second strike capability because it is an undeclared nuclear weapons state, which does not have submarine building capabilities and none of its adversaries have nuclear weapons.
> 
> Their certain niche area, which Israel excels at, missile tracking and interception being one of them.
> 
> And their certain defense areas, which Israel almost totally ignores. Submarine and aircraft manufacturing being some of them.
> 
> Barak missile complex which is deployed on naval ships being used to intercept Hezbollah's homemade rockets, that's a new one !! ..lol



You got owned badly. You have no answers. SLCM is an advanced and solid capability that India has miserably failed to obtain. All you can do now is make yourself look silly by making up excuses. Won't change the reality.

Pakistan is way ahead and will now also focus on obtaining SLBM capability. There is nothing much you can do about it. We will mate these capabilities with our subs and that will speak volume.

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## Khanate

Dalit said:


> LOL isn't it already a nasty place to live? Ask Indian women.




Fair point.


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## Osiris

Dalit said:


> You got owned badly. You have no answers. SLCM is an advanced and solid capability that India has miserably failed to obtain. All you can do now is make yourself look silly by making up excuses. Won't change the reality.
> 
> Pakistan is way ahead and will now also focus on obtaining SLBM capability. There is nothing much you can do about it.



Lol ..ok..if you say so, with these repeated assurances, perhaps you can convince yourself , if no one else.

P.S. : India just tested (again) a submarine launched missile, which can carry a 1.5 tonne nuclear warhead 3500 Kms.

Let us know, when you achieve that capability.

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## Falcon26

Osiris said:


> I never said, you are a Pakistani, I said you are of Pakistani origin. And I completely sympathize with you, if you deny that too.
> 
> Israel has to rely on its 1500 Km range SLCM for second strike capability because it is an undeclared nuclear weapons state, which does not have submarine building capabilities and none of its adversaries have nuclear weapons.
> 
> Their certain niche area, which Israel excels at, missile tracking and interception being one of them.
> 
> And their certain defense areas, which Israel almost totally ignores. Submarine and aircraft manufacturing being some of them.
> 
> Barak missile complex which is deployed on naval ships being used to intercept Hezbollah's homemade rockets, that's a new one !! ..lol



Your ignorance is so pathetic, it's not even funny.

Israel doesn't need anyone's permission to create VLS to fire its SLCM, it uses tubefired SLCM for practical reasons. There's nothing stopping it from creating VLS. Btw if subsonic cruise missiles are so easy to make, why is your country having such a difficult time fielding one? Either your claim is bogus or your weapon makers are pathetic.

Also Hizbollah successfully fired into and damaged an Israeli naval ship off the Lebanese coast. You might want to check your information before embarrassing yourself next time.

Finally I am neither Pakistani national or origin, I know the truth is a bitter pill to swallow but as I said, that's something you might want to confront privately rather than do it in full public view

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## SQ8

Penguin said:


> Just considering possibilities: did they explicitly say it was a PN submarine?


That is the right question.
Quite simply, the missile looks shortened and not thinner. One could hypothesize that the diameter remains the same.

So adding a capsule onto it, I am not convinced that the Agosta 90b is the platform that launched the system.

The very usage of the term "mobile submersible platform" seems to infer a wish to maintain ambiguity on which system launched the weapon.

I am still maintaining that this is the first test of the system from sea. Because regardless of secracy, in a busy shippig route like the Arabian Sea; NOTAMS need to be issued.

That does not prevent any land based tests and simulations as the core software is pretty Modular(had the source code of the very initial guidance system sitting in my desktop some 8 years ago, which was by then 7 years old).
So the main modifications would be to flightsystems to adapt for the shorter body and launch mechanics.

The rest is tried and trusted.



Osiris said:


> Lol ..ok..if you say so, with these repeated assurances, perhaps you can convince yourself , if no one else.
> 
> P.S. : India just tested (again) a submarine launched missile, which can carry a 1.5 tonne nuclear warhead 3500 Kms.
> 
> Let us know, when you achieve that capability.


 Nobody cares what india does, all that matters is the ability to deliver a warhead to fry you and your family into a crisp.

And rest assured, despite your delusional doubts which only comfort you.. that we are very capable of doing so using just land based system inspite of any bmd you may put up.

As long as you sit in any Indian city with a population greater than 50000; you are a dead man.

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## Dalit

Osiris said:


> Lol ..ok..if you say so, with these repeated assurances, perhaps you can convince yourself , if no one else.
> 
> P.S. : India just tested (again) a submarine launched missile, which can carry a 1.5 tonne nuclear warhead 3500 Kms.
> 
> Let us know, when you achieve that capability.



LOL you are surely the pinnacle of stupidity. You know nothing about the SLCM capability.

Just by repeating that India tested XYZ doesn't prove anything. Your own ally Israel uses SLCM. The Americans use these advanced missiles. You are just ranting. You know it.

The fun part is that SLCM deterrent is just one part of our triad. We have so many options to attack India. Today we have added an extra layer to our capabilities. We are not surprised that you are acting so defensively.

Just wait till we get our subs from China and mate these missiles. You are going to weep. You haven't even seen half of it yet.

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## BHarwana

Osiris said:


> The interception, I mentioned earlier was for P-20 or styx missile which is a high subsonic sea skimming cruise missile, It is next developmental model of P-15 missiles, which were used to take out Karachi harbor in 1971.


You need a Radar to intercept a missile and that Radar feeds data to a computer that computer calculates the path of the incoming object. and then the interceptor will receive signal from the computer and rectify the Path accordingly and will make a successful interception. this is how your defense system works. This report was generated by Australia after they assessed Barak missile system.

How US Missile defense system works currently being deployed in Europe. The have a satellite that detects infrared signature of an ICBM and then that data is transmitted to ground defense system and a SAM is fired according to that DATA got it. Problems ICBM is easy to intercept if it is not Hyper glide. like your current tested ICBM can be intercepted by a SAM system as it is not Hyper glider. Sea Skimming missile is easy to intercept but Submarine launched Sea skimming cruise missile is not intercept able as first of all the Launch is not detectable so this reduces responce time for the interceptor then if that missile is a RADAR stealth well if your radar cannot detect it cannot be intercepted so This missile is a silent death about which no one will know of coming.

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## Cyberian

Alhamdulillah.
Nar-e-Takbir - Allahu Akbar.

I am thankful to Allah Subhanahu Wa-Ta'Allah that I have witnessed Pakistan achieve this glorious milestone in my lifetime.

I am truly proud today. Pakistan Zindabad.
Congratulations to all in Pakistan.

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## yavar

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> NO nation on earth has achieved as much as Pakistan has in the defence field that has had so many restrictions and sanctions placed


really ?? can you tell us what sanction Pakistan has ?? which UNSCR ?? or even chapter seven ?? north Korea has sanction and many more which had made more progress


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Khanate said:


> 1. MAD. *yawn*
> 
> 2. We don't have to destroy India necessarily, we just have to make it a nasty place to live.





We ALREADY have the capability to wipe india off the face of the Earth and they know it. Especially their military high command. It's what stopped them from attacking Pakistan on many occasions for the past 30 years. It's why india was powerless to attack us militarily after Mumbai 2008 even though they are more than 7x bigger than us and have abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege. If that seems far fetched then so is our ability to be a nuclear weapons state and launch SLCM.

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## Taimoor Khan

Looks like there was no warhead used. The impact it seems missile hitting the ground target with no warhead.


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## Osiris

Falcon26 said:


> Your ignorance is so pathetic, it's not even funny.
> 
> Israel doesn't need anyone's permission to create VLS to fire its SLCM, it uses tubefired SLCM for practical reasons. There's nothing stopping it from creating VLS. Btw if subsonic cruise missiles are so easy to make, why is your country having such a difficult time fielding one? Either your claim is bogus or your weapon makers are pathetic.
> 
> Also Hizbollah successfully fired into and damaged an Israeli naval ship off the Lebanese coast. You might want to check your information before embarrassing yourself next time.
> 
> Finally I am neither Pakistani national or origin, I know the truth is a bitter pill to swallow but as I said, that's something you might want to confront privately rather than do it in full public view



1)Ship building is not like attaching a trolley to tractor, like they do in your native village. That your can attach any size trolley and tractor will still pull through.
Offcourse Israels needs permission and more than that expertise of manufacturing country to split open submarine install a 50m VLS section, in their 100 meter long diesel submarine. 

2) I know all about Israeli SAAR class corvette incident, but since you were misrepresenting the facts, I played you.

it was not home made rocket, which was fired on it. Or Do you not know difference between a rocket and silkworm missile?
And there was a reason why Barak did not intercept the anti-ship missile, as the system was not switched on because presence friendly aircraft and absence of any intelligence on missile threat from Hezbollah.

3) Again misquoting me, what I said was subsonic missile are relatively easier to intercept than hypersonic ballistic missiles.

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## Dalit

BHarwana said:


> You need a Radar to intercept a missile and that Radar feeds data to a computer that computer calculates the path of the incoming object. and then the interceptor will receive signal from the computer and rectify the Path accordingly and will make a successful interception. this is how your defense system works. This report was generated by Australia after they assessed Barak missile system.
> 
> How US Missile defense system works currently being deployed in Europe. The have a satellite that detects infrared signature of an ICBM and then that data is transmitted to ground defense system and a SAM is fired according to that DATA got it. Problems ICBM is easy to intercept if it is not Hyper glide. like your current tested ICBM can be intercepted by a SAM system as it is not Hyper glider. Sea Skimming missile is easy to intercept but Submarine launched Sea skimming cruise missile is not intercept able as first of all the Launch is not detectable so this reduces responce time for the interceptor then if that missile is a RADAR stealth well if your radar cannot detect it cannot be intercepted so This missile is a silent death about which no one will know of coming.



No doubt. An SLCM owns a SLBM as far as stealthy features are concerned. From terrain hugging to avoiding radars, SAM systems etc. It is truly state of the art. No SLBM can achieve such a feat.

Range and proximity wise, in a close conflict with India, these are tailor made. We couldn't have wished for a better missile weapon.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

yavar said:


> really ?? can you tell us what sanction Pakistan has ?? which UNSCR ?? or even chapter seven ?? north Korea has sanction and many more which had made more progress




Sales of mid tier F-16s, their spare parts. Advanced dual use Missile and nuclear device components and equipment. The list is endless. Yet we have achieved so much despite some of the world's most powerful nations joining hands to stop us 

A creature from the race that vehemently proclaimed that Pakistan would NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance does not change that fact & reality.......

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## Cookie Monster

Baybars Han said:


> Lol Indian trolls are coming . But u should research before trolling . Babur is copy of US Tomhawk. so , ur China rant will not work here .


all he needs to know is that it will sting just the same no matter the origin


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## graphican

HttpError said:


> Today we have completed our Nuclear Triad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan Zindabad



Next target, "Shoulder Launched Cruise Missile" with a range of 25KM! That would make enemy' strategists vomit their $hits inside their skulls!

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## Khanate

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> We ALREADY have the capability to wipe india off the face of the Earth and they know it. Especially their military high command. It's what stopped them from attacking Pakistan on many occasions for the past 30 years. It's why india was powerless to attack us militarily after Mumbai 2008 even though they are more than 7x bigger than us and have abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege. If that seems far fetched then so is our ability to be a nuclear weapons state and launch SLCM.




I'm concluding the logic of his own argument, not starting a new argument. Not interested in feeding trolls.


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## Zarvan

graphican said:


> Next target, "Shoulder Launched Cruise Missile" with a range of 25KM! That would make enemy' strategists vomit their $hits inside their skulls!


You are being sarcastic right ???????????????????

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## graphican

Zarvan said:


> You are being sarcastic right ???????????????????



No mate. I dream there was a weapon like this which was carried by 2,3 soldiers. If you had that, you could hit every valuable installation using few soldiers only. That would render enemy's air-defense and missile defense systems useless. You could destroy all enemy airports, power-plants and reserves using few soldiers only. 

We have anti-aircraft shoulder launch missiles, anti-tank shoulder launch missiles.. there can be a shoulder launched missile which attacks valuable installations. It may not be a cruise though.


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## BHarwana

The biggest problem for India is the low speed of the missile as it is slow the is no surface friction and will not generate infrared signature and will not be intercepted by IR guided missiles plus RADAR stealth is not due to sea skimming it has structural Radar stealth design which provides it stealth on high altitudes as well thus cannot be intercepted on the land based terain.  so this is a job well done.

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## ziaulislam

Path-Finder said:


> is this why sanctions on Missile companies got put on?


make sense now

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## graphican

riz1978 said:


> I would like to see a long range missile too, BTW congrats to all Pakistanis and specially to PDF warrior's



It's more than enough for coastal assets, installations and airports. For targets further deep on the land, other variants would do the job.

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## WebMaster

Need to add some nuclear masala to it.

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## Cookie Monster

Falcon26 said:


> SLBM is a luxury Pakistan doesn't need for decades. It prudently followed the Israeli model of utilizing sub launched LACM to complete the traid rather than waste billions in SLBM which then take decades to operationalize and mature. It says a lot that this LACM was launched just few weeks after India's failed LACM test. That the accuracy was shown was the icing for Pakistanis lol
> 
> Pakistan needs to now work on MIRV & military satellites and progressively increase the range to at least 1500km.


In this day and age as Missile defense systems are becoming increasingly accurate. MIRV is crucial but for that ICBM capability is a must. This should be the next logical step of progression.

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## Falcon26

Osiris said:


> 1)Ship building is not like attaching a trolley to tractor, like they do in your native village. That your can attach any size trolley and tractor will still pull through.
> Offcourse Israels needs permission and more than that expertise of manufacturing country to split open submarine install a 50m VLS section, in their 100 meter long diesel submarine.
> 
> 2) I know all about Israeli SAAR class corvette incident, but since you were misrepresenting the facts, I played you.
> 
> it was not home made rocket, which was fired on it. Or Do you not know difference between a rocket and silkworm missile?
> And there was a reason why Barak did not intercept the anti-ship missile, as the system was not switched on because presence friendly aircraft and absence of any intelligence on missile threat from Hezbollah.
> 
> 3) Again misquoting me, what I said was subsonic missile are relatively easier to intercept than hypersonic ballistic missiles.



Now you are just ranting to fill space, making absolute zero sense.

Yea, the Israeli systems were conveniently turned off during deployment in a hostile environment. You are digging yourself a bigger hole, buddy. Give it a rest



Cookie Monster said:


> In this day and age as Missile defense systems are becoming increasingly accurate. MIRV is crucial but for that ICBM capability is a must. This should be the next logical step of progression.



No country has deployed a proven 100% accurate ABM, yet. We are decades away from that.

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## Osiris

BHarwana said:


> You need a Radar to intercept a missile and that Radar feeds data to a computer that computer calculates the path of the incoming object. and then the interceptor will receive signal from the computer and rectify the Path accordingly and will make a successful interception. this is how your defense system works. This report was generated by Australia after they assessed Barak missile system.
> 
> How US Missile defense system works currently being deployed in Europe. The have a satellite that detects infrared signature of an ICBM and then that data is transmitted to ground defense system and a SAM is fired according to that DATA got it. Problems ICBM is easy to intercept if it is not Hyper glide. like your current tested ICBM can be intercepted by a SAM system as it is not Hyper glider. Sea Skimming missile is easy to intercept but Submarine launched Sea skimming cruise missile is not intercept able as first of all the Launch is not detectable so this reduces responce time for the interceptor then if that missile is a RADAR stealth well if your radar cannot detect it cannot be intercepted so This missile is a silent death about which no one will know of coming.



Firstly know the difference between,
1) detecting a missile launch,
2) tracking the missile .
3 ) Intercepting the missile.

These are three distinct processes , the first two are easier to do on ballistic missile, because of their missile launch flare , high and relatively fixed trajectory. The third process is easier done on a subsonic cruise missile.
If you can track a cruise missile, even an aircraft can shoot it down with its guns. Like the British use to do to German V1 rockets(which were essentially low subsonic cruise missile) in WW2.

Problem with detecting and tracking a sea skimming missile is, the inability of radar to see beyond its horizon, due to curvature of the earth. That is why aerostat radars and AWACS came into being. They essentially increased radar horizon by physically increasing the radar height.

But with time, faster computing and processing power available and faster interceptor even radars which were deployed on sea level were able to intercept sea skimming missiles.

This offcourse is helped by the fact, if the missile to be intercepted in just a subsonic missile. eg a subsonic sea skimming which is traveling at 500 Km/hour even if it is detected just 50 Km from the radar, will give the anti missile system, 6 minutes to intercept the missile.

Which in interception terms is all the time in the world.

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## Cookie Monster

Dean Winchester said:


> Range is less than BrahMos!!!
> I though Babur had a longer range





Dean Winchester said:


> Based on the ISPR release it has no seeker either which means no anti shipping capabilities:



Yeah it totally sucks. On impact a flag comes out with the word bang on it.

How about before talking shit about Babur cruise missile, develop ur Nirbhay cruise missile so it would actually work. It's a shame that u guys can't even develop a subsonic cruise missile and yet boast about developing a supersonic cruise missile(Brahmos). Everyone knows that it's just a P800 Oniks


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## BHarwana

I want to mention this info to some Indian trolls they should not be alarmed with this test it was not intended for India. I was intended for Israel it had a range of only 450 km and was launched from a sub marine and was a totally RADAR stealth missile. Pakistan has no need of that type of tech for India. India should be looking at a long rage version test coming in few months that is a gift for India with love from Pakistan. This launch was a message to India if you pose threat to our Brother China with ICBM we will burn to ashes you mother Israel.

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## Cookie Monster

Falcon26 said:


> Now you are just ranting to fill space, making absolute zero sense.
> 
> Yea, the Israeli systems were conveniently turned off during deployment in a hostile environment. You are digging yourself a bigger hole, buddy. Give it a rest
> 
> 
> 
> No country has deployed a proven 100% accurate ABM, yet. We are decades away from that.


It's not a 100% accurate but is at the point where it can no longer be ignored and can only get worse in a decade's time. A solution needs to be in the works now bcuz it would take like a decade or so to develop such a capability.


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## The SC

Zaki said:


> How many nations can launch cruise missile from subs?
> 
> Any idea?


All nuclear nations, Pakistan is the last to do it, now it has joined the big league of the nuclear triad..


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## GumNaam

Congrats to all Pakistanis. 
Well this is a smack across the faces of all the indians who thought that Pakistan never had the ability to launch sub based missiles. 

Fyi, Pakistan has had this ability for a long time; we are just proving it now.

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## BHarwana

Osiris said:


> Firstly know the difference between,
> 1) detecting a missile launch,
> 2) tracking the missile .
> 3 ) Intercepting the missile.
> 
> These are three distinct processes , the first two are easier to do on ballistic missile, because of their missile launch flare , high and relatively fixed trajectory. The third process is easier done on a subsonic cruise missile.
> If you can track a cruise missile, even an aircraft can shoot it down with its guns. Like the British use to do to German V1 rockets(which were essentially low subsonic cruise missile) in WW2.
> 
> Problem with detecting and tracking a sea skimming missile is, the inability of radar to see beyond its horizon, due to curvature of the earth. That is why aerostat radars and AWACS came into being. They essentially increased radar horizon by physically increasing the radar height.
> 
> But with time, faster computing and processing power available and faster interceptor even radars which were deployed on sea level were able to intercept sea skimming missiles.
> 
> This offcourse is helped by the fact, if the missile to be intercepted in just a subsonic missile. eg a subsonic sea skimming which is traveling at 500 Km/hour even if it is detected just 50 Km from the radar, will give the anti missile system, 6 minutes to intercept the missile.
> 
> Which in interception terms is all the time in the world.



I am tired of explaining this to you. there is no fight with illiteracy. The missile is RADAR stealth due to design not due to sea skimming. The missile is sea skimming only for not being intercepted by anti air guns. Now question why the missile is low speed Because at high speed missiles generate surface friction and heat up thus they generate IR (infrared) signature and can be intercepted by IR guided interceptors. 
1. No Radar Signature. (Thus immune to RADAR Guided interceptors)
2. Low altitude approach or Sea skimming. (Thus immune to anti air Guns)
3. Low speed. (Thus no IR signature and Immune to infrared guided interceptors)
4. India check mate. But please don't be alarmed the missile is not intended for India it is for Israel with only 450 km range.
5. Indian version will be tested in few months.

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## Falcon26

Cookie Monster said:


> It's not a 100% accurate but is at the point where it can no longer be ignored and can only get worse in a decade's time. A solution needs to be in the works now bcuz it would take like a decade or so to develop such a capability.



That's true. But keep in mind MIRV will overwhelm ABM & use of composite materials and stealth features will also improve. In the South-Asian perspective, due to the geographic proximity, ABM systems will have a really difficult time.

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## Bratva

Osiris said:


> That's is what Barak 1 and 2 anti missile systems have been doing, all these years.
> 
> India is now able to intercept high mach speeds, high trajectory Ballistic missiles in its ABM program.
> Intercepting a subsonic cruise missile is relatively much easier.
> 
> Just a few weeks ago, a US destroyer intercepted and destroyed a sea skimming missile.
> 
> 
> 
> Because they are cheap and their intended targets has no air defenses, much less a missile defense in place.



Babur-3 SLCM incorporates state of the art technologies including underwater controlled propulsion and advanced guidance and navigation features, duly augmented by Global Navigation, Terrain and Scene Matching Systems. The missile features terrain hugging and *sea skimming flight capabilities to evade hostile radars and air defenses, in addition to certain stealth technologies, in an emerging regional Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) environment.


Why you keep forgetting this specefic part of Official ISPR press release >*

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## Osiris

BHarwana said:


> I am tired of explaining this to you. there is no fight with illiteracy. The missile is RADAR stealth due to design not due to sea skimming. The missile is sea skimming only for not being intercepted by anti air guns. Now question why the missile is low speed Because at high speed missiles generate surface friction and heat up thus they generate IR (infrared) signature and can be intercepted by IR guided interceptors.
> 1. No Radar Signature. (Thus immune to RADAR Guided interceptors)
> 2. Low altitude approach or Sea skimming. (Thus immune to anti air Guns)
> 3. Low speed. (Thus no IR signature and Immune to infrared guided interceptors)
> 4. India check mate. But please don't be alarmed the missile is not intended for India it is for Israel with only 450 km range.
> 5. Indian version will be tested in few months.



And what exactly, does make this missile invisible to radar ?


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## Cookie Monster

Falcon26 said:


> That's true. But keep in mind MIRV will overwhelm ABM & use of composite materials and stealth features will also improve. In the South-Asian perspective, due to the geographic proximity, ABM systems will have a really difficult time.


Right now the geographic proximity gives an advantage against ABMs that's bcuz I think the current systems India has rely on radars to detect the incoming missile. When they would start relying on their satellites to detect ballistic missile launches, the geographic proximity disadvantage of their ABM systems would be severely minimized.

Overwhelming the ABM through MIRV is the point of MIRV. It ensures target's destruction as not all of those warheads can be intercepted in time. Although there are other ways to defeat ABM systems but MIRV is one of the crucial capabilities a country should have.

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## Mrc

Bratva said:


> Babur-3 SLCM incorporates state of the art technologies including underwater controlled propulsion and advanced guidance and navigation features, duly augmented by Global Navigation, Terrain and Scene Matching Systems. The missile features terrain hugging and *sea skimming flight capabilities to evade hostile radars and air defenses, in addition to certain stealth technologies, in an emerging regional Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) environment.
> 
> 
> Why you keep forgetting this specefic part of Official ISPR press release >*




they are not forgetting... they just don't read things,... they need to stroke their egoes constantly to remain functional...side effect of having a small ........ I mean every one knows

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## TOPGUN

WebMaster said:


> Need to add some nuclear masala to it.



Coming soon to a theater near you

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## Mrc

Osiris said:


> And what exactly, does make this missile invisible to radar ?



it has mirrors on it to reflect radar

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## BHarwana

Osiris said:


> And what exactly, does make this missile invisible to radar ?


LOL not telling you that.
Russia just tested same type of missile ask them. 
Or search for the term RAM materials.
That was a stupid question as for the place where you are asking it.


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## Osiris

Mrc said:


> it has mirrors on it to reflect radar



I do not know about but mirrors.

But were Pakistan to launch this Babur missile along with few of the Pakistani members here, Indian infrared homing missile would have real hard time, selecting which target to lock on too.

Owing to the hot air they are producing.

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## Thorough Pro

Now you are trolling more than just Indians 



Rashid Mahmood said:


> Well as today a great day, so enjoy another piece of news..
> another boomer visited Karachi some time ago and it was not Chinese.
> That's all I can say.

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## BHarwana

Mrc said:


> it has mirrors on it to reflect radar


 LOL


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## Zarvan

By the way is it first time that they have shown a Missile hitting its target or they have shown even before ????????????

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## BHarwana

Thorough Pro said:


> Now you are trolling more than just Indians


He is correct in one part but the other is wrong. Chinese made a request to Pakistan to display this beautiful uninterruptible missile to India. As China has ICBM but this was something totally new for the world. So it should be displayed to India after that intercept able ICBM they launched. Now on the Matter to whom it belongs well that is a big problem with Pakistan and China you can never figure out. In case of Fighter jets CPEC and Missiles but India should put some effort to figure this out it self.



Zarvan said:


> By the way is it first time that they have shown a Missile hitting its target or they have shown even before ????????????


Pakistan already has cruise missiles this one was undetectable one from launch to delivery and it means no one will know who or what hited them.

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## Lucky Breeze

Zarvan said:


> By the way is it first time that they have shown a Missile hitting its target or they have shown even before ????????????


https://defence.pk/threads/azerbaijan-interested-in-pakistan’s-long-range-missiles.316190/page-3


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## Kebapçı Erhan

Congratulations to the Pakistani brothers, this is a major accomplish not only for Pakistan but for muslims as a whole. Inshallah we can cooperate and achieve similar capabilities for Turkish submarines. We are planning to have subs with similar capabilities but if Pakistan helps us out we can achieve it faster.

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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> undetectable


 nothing is invisible on radars and Ir sensors but LO* "LOW OBSERVABLE"* or *STEALTH* means that it as a extremely low RADAR and IR signatures with respect of the body specifications on radars and other sensors


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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> nothing is invisible on radars and Ir sensors but LO* "LOW OBSERVABLE"* or *STEALTH* means that it as a extremely low RADAR and IR signatures with respect of the body specifications on radars and other sensors


It says you are a full member and so illiterate . RADAR is the past method of detection lol.


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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> It says you are a full member and so illiterate . RADAR is the past method of detection lol.


what are you talking about go kid research yourself than we can talk so tell me what is the alternates for radars

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## grey boy 2



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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> what are you talking about go kid research yourself than we can talk so tell me what is the alternates for radars



Full spectrum IR detection in combination with Machine learning is the latest technology. Plus TV signal can give better detection than RADAR, but TV signal is currently under research and only deployed on one air port.
There is a thing now being used currently is integration data of multiple RADARs. This is a tech USA is currently using with F 35. To achieve stealth you have two approaches.
1. RAM (Radar Absorbent Materials). The RAM approach cannot be used on Fighter jet at at super sonic speed the RAM has less structural strength but with low speed cruise missiles you can use it. Remember the US helicopter that crashed in Abbottabad Pakistan got the RAM technology and materials it required for this cruise missiles. If you have any knowledge of chemistry I can explain it further but if not stick with my info.

2.RDD (Radar Deflecting Design) The technology used in F117. It was first discovered by a Russian scientist RADAR waves when they approach a object they strike like a normal light dose but unlike light RADAR waves return to the source. the travel time of these waves is calculated to obtain position of the object. If these Rays are deflected the RADAR goes blind.

If you want to know how to detect a stealth object with RADAR please ask politely and I might tell you.

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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> Full spectrum IR detection in combination with Machine learning is the latest technology. Plus TV signal can give better detection than RADAR, but TV signal is currently under research and only deployed on one air port.
> There is a thing now being used currently is integration data of multiple RADARs. This is a tech USA is currently using with F 35. To achieve stealth you have two approaches.
> 1. RAM (Radar Absorbent Materials). The RAM approach cannot be used on Fighter jet at at super sonic speed the RAM has less structural strength but with low speed cruise missiles you can use it. Remember the US helicopter that crashed in Abbottabad Pakistan got the RAM technology and materials it required for this cruise missiles. If you have any knowledge of chemistry I can explain it further but if not stick with my info.
> 
> 2.RDD (Radar Deflecting Design) The technology used in F117. It was first discovered by a Russian scientist RADAR waves when they approach a object they strike like a normal light dose but unlike light RADAR waves return to the source. the travel time of these waves is calculated to obtain position of the object. If these Rays are deflected the RADAR goes blind.
> 
> If you want to know how to detect a stealth object with RADAR please ask politely and I might tell you.


bro main long range and short range detection method whether is stealth jet or not is "RADAR" IR and Elecro-optic is only for fine weather in adverse weather their performance is highly degraded bro i am sorry to you are no clue what are you talking about

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## tanlixiang28776

Penguin said:


> Which would then be incapable of self-defence or any other type of action but SLCM launch.....



It factors in 6 torpedoes for each


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## SrNair

Bratva said:


> Indians on Internet commenting..................................
> 
> 
> *SivaVijay* » 09 Jan 2017 19:17
> 
> Some Observation on the Video on SM regarding the **** missile test:
> - There are 4 different shots
> - The first shot is alleged cruise missile exiting the water , here till the end of that particular shot the missile is still powered by rocket and is not cruising
> - The second shot is Babur crossing over to land and then Babur cruising at altitude this can be from any test. But the Missile clearly has red paint
> - The last shot is a target destroyed, here if we go frame by frame, the projectile does not look like the missile
> So this may be another bluff by Pakis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asses on full fledge burner



But can you clear these doubts?
After I see this post and recheck that video again .It seems at the initial stage it has white colour and then at mid flight it has red colour .
Why these variation?
Vapour formation or camera glitches .

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## Mrc

SrNair said:


> But can you clear these doubts?
> After I see this post and recheck that video again .It seems at the initial stage it has white colour and then at mid flight it has red colour .
> Why these variation?
> Vapour formation or camera glitches .




It changes colour to hide from indian radar

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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> bro main long range and short range detection method whether is stealth jet or not is "RADAR" IR and Elecro-optic is only for fine weather in adverse weather their performance is highly degraded bro i am sorry to you are no clue what are you talking about


 Bro this is an open forum and I will not speak any more on the issue you have taken it personally. The Raffys India just bought are no threat for Pakistan as they are detectable very easily with the Radar system Pakistan has so peace for now.
And Bro I am not talking about the IR you think used in infrared missiles. Have you every heard of a company called FLIR.


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## Pandora

SrNair said:


> But can you clear these doubts?
> After I see this post and recheck that video again .It seems at the initial stage it has white colour and then at mid flight it has red colour .
> Why these variation?
> Vapour formation or camera glitches .



Are they suppose to put like every minute of video? Is it a common practice by indians as well? Capabilities of a missile such as manouvering are never made public.

When a boggy exits water it is covered with water which reflects light (Basic Physics). Google it yourself before making stupid claims.

Lastly some clown are saying they didnt see missile before impact. Let me ask those clown have they seen impact of brahmos cruise missile at final stage? Have you people seen a subsonic cruise missile like harpoon, c802 seconds before impact? It is a general knowledge that missile gains speed at final approach to maximise damage by mere impact. 

In short people raising questions are in immediate need of burnol.

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

SrNair said:


> But can you clear these doubts?
> After I see this post and recheck that video again .It seems at the initial stage it has white colour and then at mid flight it has red colour .
> Why these variation?
> Vapour formation or camera glitches .


I have also seen color nonsense on Indian Forum . So , that is your answer and also tell your fellow forum men





Babur has both Red and white lining . It colour changes because it is photographed at different angle.

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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> Bro this is an open forum and I will not speak any more on the issue you have taken it personally. The Raffys India just bought are no threat for Pakistan as they are detectable very easily with the Radar system Pakistan has so peace for now.
> And Bro I am not talking about the IR you think used in infrared missiles. Have you every heard of a company called FLIR.


Ok bro Company you called that *"Company" it s abbreviation of "FORWARD LOOKING INFRARED" its sensor IR sensor on the CAS jet*


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## faithfulguy

I'm surprised by this news. It's actually a great idea that Pakistan does not leak the news of missile test like you know who. Announcing such tests just tell the world to observe your missile while being tested. A stupid idea.

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## Pandora

graphican said:


> No mate. I dream there was a weapon like this which was carried by 2,3 soldiers. If you had that, you could hit every valuable installation using few soldiers only. That would render enemy's air-defense and missile defense systems useless. You could destroy all enemy airports, power-plants and reserves using few soldiers only.
> 
> We have anti-aircraft shoulder launch missiles, anti-tank shoulder launch missiles.. there can be a shoulder launched missile which attacks valuable installations. It may not be a cruise though.



Have you seen size of a missile with 25km range? Baktar shikan has range of 2-3km supposedly yet it take 3 people to assemble the kit on field.


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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> Ok bro Company you called that *"Company" it s abbreviation of "FORWARD LOOKING INFRARED" its sensor IR sensor on the CAS jet*


http://www.flir.eu/mission/
FLIR is the very company that makes the pods Pakistan needs for JF 17 and it is the very company AESA radar systems


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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> http://www.flir.eu/mission/
> FLIR is the very company that makes the pods Pakistan needs for JF 17 and it is the very company AESA radar systems


 stick to the topic and as for your information in future JF-17 will using chinese pods and AESA radar


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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> stick to the topic and as for your information in future JF-17 will using chinese pods and AESA radar


I am on topic you asked about flir. Now what the hell you want from me that Indian left and you came in with similar questions. Pakistan asked France to provide pods for JF17 made by FLIR and they refused but to inform you we already have those pods, Turkey provided them.

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## graphican

smuhs1 said:


> Have you seen size of a missile with 25km range? Baktar shikan has range of 2-3km supposedly yet it take 3 people to assemble the kit on field.



Agree. 25KM is too much, also circles of defense around any installation is not 25 KM. So lesser ranges would be equally effective. BUT dream big! work harder, make impossible happen.


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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> stick to the topic and as for your information in future JF-17 will using chinese pods and AESA radar


About your love for Radars they can be evaded 100% and World need another wave form to detect Aircrafts.


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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> I am on topic you asked about flir. Now what the hell you want from me that Indian left and you came in with similar questions. Pakistan asked France to provide pods for JF17 made by FLIR and they refused but to inform you we already have those pods, Turkey provided them.


but this a thread not for discussing JF-17 FLIR, PODS and AESA for JF-17 its a thread about first of SLCM of PN


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## mqur1963

finally congratulate late Pakistan dum dum musr qalander

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## BHarwana

iby32 said:


> FLIR is not a company its an equipment used on fighter jets
> FLIR= FORWARD LOOKING INFRARED RADIOMETER/RADAR


LOL they company name is FLIR systems is it fine now


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## iby32

BHarwana said:


> LOL they company name is FLIR systems is it fine now


Ok fine but we al spose to talk here about slcm babur not rafale jf17 or flir


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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> About your love for Radars they can be evaded 100% and World need another wave form to detect Aircrafts.


do you live in your fairy tales and fantasy world the main detection method is RADAR for all over the world including superpowers *so they don't detect any aircraft currently*


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## Sloth 22

Taimoor Khan said:


> Proof is in the pudding as they say.
> 
> Indian second strike capability is questionable to say the least.



Doesn't proof anything . 

About 2nd strike. 
Untill atleast 3 SSBNs are ready , it won't be 100%.


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## BHarwana

iby32 said:


> Ok fine but we al spose to talk here about slcm babur not rafale jf17 or flir





pakistanipower said:


> do you live in your fairy tales and fantasy world the main detection method is RADAR for all over the world including superpowers *so they don't detect any aircraft currently*


the guy that made the first post is right make a thread about radar and I will teach you there


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## The SC

Penguin said:


> Just like Harpoon and Exocet and YJ082 are: as an encapsulated missile


it is a very difficult and complicated technology, Pakistan has achieved a technological milestone with this Submarine launched cruise missile.. you should congratulate Pakistan on this..because usually one has to buy them off the shelf either from the US or France or others, and no one will give you ToT for this, so it is quite an achievement for Pakistan to be self sufficient in this very vital field..you can think of it as a 3rd, but minimum deterrent for now, still it is an important step for full 3rd capability deterrence..

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## BHarwana

The SC said:


> it is a very difficult and complicated technology, Pakistan has achieved a technological milestone with this Submarine launched cruise missile.. you should congratulate Pakistan on this..because usually one has to buy them off the shelf either from the US or France or others, and no one will give you ToT for this, so it is quite an achievement for Pakistan to be self sufficient in this very vital field..you can think of it as a 3rd, but minimum deterrent for now, still it is an important step for full 3rd capability deterrence..


Dear friend those Exocet and YJ082 are tube launched but Babur 3 is a step ahead. It is stealth. Those counter measures will never get a chance to be deployed.


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## Thorough Pro

Wrapped in a chameleon skin for stealth 



SrNair said:


> But can you clear these doubts?
> After I see this post and recheck that video again .It seems at the initial stage it has white colour and then at mid flight it has red colour .
> Why these variation?
> Vapour formation or camera glitches .

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## Mrc

For indians fussing on colour... if they wanted to fake a video... they wud ve made sure its looks of same color in all frames... just saying


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## BHarwana

The SC said:


> it is a very difficult and complicated technology, Pakistan has achieved a technological milestone with this Submarine launched cruise missile.. you should congratulate Pakistan on this..because usually one has to buy them off the shelf either from the US or France or others, and no one will give you ToT for this, so it is quite an achievement for Pakistan to be self sufficient in this very vital field..you can think of it as a 3rd, but minimum deterrent for now, still it is an important step for full 3rd capability deterrence..


 This is a stealth nuclear war head delivery system launched from a Submarine. USA has ICBM which can be launched from a sub they have conventional cruise missiles launched from a Sub but the don't have Nuclear capable cruise missiles launched from a Sub.


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## SW187

COOL
...but the video isn't working


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## Awan68

Hell of an achievement, long live pakistan, p.s. pak defence circles seriously need to work on their astheticc skills, the orange raad and the red babur dont look as good, perhaps a grey vintage with some black markings or a completely white missle, keeping up appearances huh and dont take this the wrong way people, not a troll, a mad patriot me

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## shjliu



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## Falcon26

Awan68 said:


> Hell of an achievement, long live pakistan, p.s. pak defence circles seriously need to work on their astheric skills, the orange raad and the red babur dont look as good, perhaps a grey vintage with some black markings or a completely white missle, keeping up appearances huh...



I agree the coloring was off.

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## war&peace

Emmie said:


> So it was the reason for sanctions!
> 
> Congratulations to whole nation, such a great and gleeful achievement! Thanks to scientists! I am so happy literally dancing.


Me too I'm happy too but now we should go for SLBM development

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## Rashid Mahmood

Basel said:


> @Rashid Mahmood please clarify about launch platform. ISPR said launched from submarine while members here saying not from sub? My personal info tells me all PN subs are capable of firing this version of SLCM but only A-90Bs would be used for SLCM due to wear n tear issue with A-70s, m I right?



Agosta 90B.
I already have clarified.
Some members are still doubtful, so let it be, as it also helps.

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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> Dear friend those Exocet and YJ082 are tube launched but Babur 3 is a step ahead. It is stealth. Those counter measures will never get a chance to be deployed.


you are first to be develop stealth SLCM and stealth CM doesn't meant that its a invincible missile for all enemy sensors and divices


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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> you are first to be develop stealth SLCM and stealth CM doesn't meant that its a invincible missile for all enemy sensors and divices


http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/russia-test-unstoppable-satan-2-7935675
this is the link of the news paper Mirror where there is a missile SATAN 2 is reported about. Please read.
There is a state of matter named plasma. When a space shuttle reenters earths atmosphere the outer skin of the shuttle which is made of ceramic tiles achives that state due to heat and friction and at that point it immune to all RADARS so please get some knowledge.


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## Burhan Wani

Moonlight said:


> Mostly I miss the live coverage of big news because of this time difference.


Stay tuned on PDF. We are here to keep you updated.



friendly_troll96 said:


> what poop are you talkin about?


Check the post shared related to Khaleej time. Khaleej time wrote on news headlines that India Launched SLCM and show pictures of Babur. Yesterday.



The Sandman said:


> Some people are realllllly buuuuuurning
> 
> 
> How are you?


Late comers.

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## Fenrir

pakistanipower said:


> you are first to be develop stealth SLCM and stealth CM doesn't meant that its a invincible missile for all enemy sensors and divices



To say Babur is a stealthy platform is questionable and would require a further look at more sensitive features, but some do lead to conclusions that can be inferred. Babur has a round body similar to Tomahawk, but without Tomahawk's redesigned low-RCS nose. This design element is not present on previous iterations of Tomahawk, but was introduced into the Tomahawk Block IV which is capable of land-attack, anti-shipping and is being upgraded to better attack moving targets.

Babur - taken from the test video.






Early Tomahawk





Tomahawk Block IV - notice the reshaped nose? It's an RCS reduction feature.





Babur, like Tomahawk has a cruciform tail and straight wings. It's shaping doesn't show any stealthy considerations - round with many straight edges and planes. Now it could have RAM paint which helps, and greatly increases the cost of the missile, but that doesn't make a platform invisible, it just helps to reduce the distance at which a platform is detected for a given wavelength. Optimize wrong and you'll still be lit up light a Christmas tree.

What Babur does have is a small profile and terrain hugging/sea-skimming capability which helps mask it from sensors like IIR, Electro-Optical or Radar scanners, but that's inherent to most modern missiles.

In terms of actual stealth optimized submarine launched cruise missiles you're looking at NSM-SL which was designed from the ground up to maximize all aspect stealth. It has a low IR signature, a radar cross section reducing airframe and uses composites to further enhance this effect and does not use active seekers like active radar homing and relies strictly on passive guidance like DSMAC, dual-band IIR and home-on-ECM.






Babur is more similar to Tomahawk and SCALP Naval and likely features some signature reduction techniques like passive guidance using GPS or internal navigation which limit the effectiveness of electronic countermeasures and make the missile's approach less noticeable then using active homing, and it likely has some form of IR suppression too, but it's profile does not indicate radar cross section reduction unless using RAM.






I wouldn't call it a "stealth" platform like I would NSM, but it has elements which make it less detectable too.

Irrespective this represents a major step forward for Pakistan and forces India to invest further in missile countermeasures and early-warning sensors which are expensive and need to be deployed enmass to achieve the desirable coverage. The missile is most often cheaper then the countermeasures.

...

BHarwana has made many questionable claims and assertions. I've wanted to address several but felt it would be unproductive. I'd recommend you not engage them anymore for both your and the threads sake.

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## Burhan Wani

Blue Marlin said:


> really, or is that fiction?


Based on my desires.


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## Moonlight

Jonah Arthur said:


> Stay tuned on PDF. We are here to keep you updated



I might miss it then. This person is going to be extremely busy in upcoming days.

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## Rashid Mahmood

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Can SAMs work in submarine via VLS? And , Can radar work when submarine is submerged? Sorry for noob question



No.

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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/russia-test-unstoppable-satan-2-7935675
> this is the link of the news paper Mirror where there is a missile SATAN 2 is reported about. Please read.
> There is a state of matter named plasma. When a space shuttle reenters earths atmosphere the outer skin of the shuttle which is made of ceramic tiles achives that state due to heat and friction and at that point it immune to all RADARS so please get some knowledge.


Plasma stealth is useless because its absorb all electromagnetic radiations, so if we put plasma generators on missiles, Jets how can we guide it because all missiles, jets using electromagnetic navigation* what a genus you are*


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## Burhan Wani

Moonlight said:


> I might miss it then. This person is going to be extremely busy in upcoming days.


Yes i have a work burden these days. But i am always available on holidays to share wonderful news related to Pakistan Defence here in PDF.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @amardeep mishra ghussa hi kar gaya tou yaar


I was expecting this Sehera kay Mujahid.

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## BHarwana

Fenrir said:


> BHarwana has made many questionable claims and assertions. I'd recommend you not engage them anymore for both your and the threads sake.


My claims are base on Russia todays report the Russians were not able to detect it through their RADAR from Irani waters and Similar case was with US as the US and Irani ships fired shots at each other trying to observe the launch so Get a grab with your words. Pakistan was testing the tech. China already had the tube launch system and was easily available to Pakistan but the missile was delayed to make it nuclear capable and stealthy to RADAR.


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## Hassan Guy

war&peace said:


> Me too I'm happy too but now we should go for SLBM development


Yes that should be next


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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> Plasma stealth is useless because its absorb all electromagnetic radiations, so if we put plasma generators on missiles, Jets how can we guide it because all missiles, jets using electromagnetic navigation* what a genus you are*


LOL plasma is not generated it is a state achieved and due to which the reentry object is a Hyper glider war head and navigation is done before reentry after that hyper glider act as a falling artillery shell. USA has already admitted it has no counters to defend against hyper gliding warheads currently being developed by Russia and China.


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## noksss

Congrats to Pakistan on the launch

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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> My claims are base on Russia todays report the Russians were not able to detect it through their RADAR from Irani waters and Similar case was with US as the US and Irani ships fired shots at each other trying to observe the launch so Get a grab with your words. Pakistan was testing the tech. China already had the tube launch system and was easily available to Pakistan but the missile was delayed to make it nuclear capable and stealthy to RADAR.


Stealth means low RCS *"RADAR CROSS SECTION"* doesn't means that its a invincible missile to all enemy sensors and devices


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## BHarwana

Fenrir said:


> To say Babur is a stealthy platform is questionable and would require a further look at more sensitive features, but some do lead to conclusions that can be inferred. Round body similar to Tomahawk, but without Tomahawk's redesigned low-RCS nose. This design element is not present on previous iterations, but was introduced into the Tomahawk Block IV which is capable of land-attack, anti-shipping and is being upgraded to better attack moving targets.


Mr mod you are a beautiful man or woman but there is no image of Babur 3 in your detailed discription.

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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> LOL plasma is not generated it is a state achieved and due to which the reentry object is a Hyper glider war head and navigation is done before reentry after that hyper glider act as a falling artillery shell. USA has already admitted it has no counters to defend against hyper gliding warheads currently being developed by Russia and China.


because their speed not plasma stealth you fool go kid this place is not for yours go play your toys


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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> Stealth means low RCS *"RADAR CROSS SECTION"* doesn't means that its a invincible missile to all enemy sensors and devices


Man cry a river build a bridge and get over it. I know you are a bit hurt in USA but RADAR can be 100% evaded
This is the most power ful radar USA has
http://graphics.latimes.com/missile-defense/
it has gone bad for not detecting a missile the cost of development was $10 billion


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## Awan68

yavar said:


> AS i expected . nonsense as you failed to provide not even signal UN sanction or UNSCR sanction nor UNSCR under chapter seven
> 
> your bluff is now well exposed . Pakistan never been under sanction . only some amemnt bill and restriction passed by US congress . none what so ever international sanction .
> 
> Pakistan Has put sanction on other countries but never been under sanction .
> 
> many other countries has achieved SLCM long before Pakistan with tons of UNSCR on them with zero access to international marketr without any financial banking .


And you my friend seriously need to check into a mental hosptial asap, go on boy not a moment to waste

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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> Man cry a river build a bridge and get over it. I know you are a bit hurt in USA but RADAR can be 100% evaded
> This is the most power ful radar USA has
> http://graphics.latimes.com/missile-defense/
> it has gone bad for not detecting a missile the cost of development was $10 billion


they can fix it in near future its not your problem


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## syed_yusuf

What a news but it raised few questions. 

Is it a different dimension missile fired from Augusta 90b. As this class of submarine has 533mm torpedo tubes.babur needs 650mm tubes to launch. So is Augusta modified to have 650mm tube. Is it modified to have vls for babur. Or is babur modified to fit in 533mm.

And idea or possibility?


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## RISING SUN

Rashid Mahmood said:


> Soon IA.


Sir what is IA? 
Off topic, I felt bit of strange feeling like negative excitement maybe, unable to explain it though. It happens with me whenever there is some strategic development concerning my country. On topic 
Pakistan has justified every investment till now which works. Never mind whether it's home built or not. Till it's fulfilling your national requirements it's really good. India is far behind in this, I acknowledge that in my personal opinion. This launch was certainly out of blue for many including me but I had idea that your country does have AIP subs which if reconfigured can prove to be deadly. It's moment to be proud as same is your right. Really a strategic development. Congratulations to you all. Thank you.

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## monitor

*Pakistan Reveals Test of Submarine-Launched Missile*
By: Usman Ansari, January 9, 2017 (Photo Credit: Syed Zargham/Getty Images)


ISLAMABAD — Pakistan on Monday publicly acknowledged for the first time it had successfully tested a submarine-launched cruise missile.

The date of the test is unclear, and the trial may have been carried out beforehand. Nevertheless, according to a statement by Inter-Services Public Relations, the military’s media branch, the test of the 450-kilometer range Babur 3 was carried out “from an undisclosed location in the Indian Ocean” from “an underwater, mobile platform”.

The latter implies the test was carried out from one of Pakistan’s Agosta-70 or Agosta-90B submarines.

Babur 3 was stated to be a sub-launched variant of the land-based Babur 2, which was tested in December 2016 and features improved avionics and accuracy. Babur 3 features “underwater controlled propulsion and advanced guidance and navigation features, duly augmented by Global Navigation, Terrain and Scene Matching Systems.”

 




Defense News
Pakistan Builds New Missile Boat to Protect Key Trade Routes
It was also claimed to have sea-skimming and terrain-hugging flight characteristics to evade radar detection and interception — especially with regard to future regional missile defense capabilities, a veiled reference to India’s efforts in missile technology.

A further such reference to India was made in stating that the successful development of a second-strike capability was a “manifestation of the strategy of measured response to nuclear strategies and postures being adopted in Pakistan’s neighborhood.”

Development of Babur 3 was also hailed as “a step towards [Pakistan] reinforcing policy of credible minimum deterrence.”

Mansoor Ahmed, a postdoctoral research fellow at Harvard University's Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs and an expert on Pakistan’s nuclear program and delivery systems, said Babur 3 is a “significant milestone” in Pakistan’s effort to complete its nuclear triad.

“It has proven the speculation that Pakistan will not follow India’s pathway to a naval leg of the triad via nuclear submarines but opt for a more cost-effective solution tailored to its own strategic calculus and capabilities,” he said.

Combined with the very low frequency communication facility unveiled last year, Ahmed believes Pakistan’s Naval Strategic Force Command can now deploy nuclear-armed cruise missiles on its conventional submarines to ensure a credible second-strike capability.

 




Defense News
Pakistan Unveils VLF Submarine Communications Facility
This is likely to be fully utilized onboard the forthcoming air-independent propulsion-equipped Hangor-class submarines designed by and co-produced with China.

Ahmed further highlighted two points: that the Babur 3 can carry any type of warhead, courtesy of Pakistan’s plutonium production program, which has enabled production of miniaturized nuclear devices for its range of missiles from Babur to the Shaheen III ballistic missile that covers all of Indian territory; and that Pakistan’s sea-based deterrent “is also likely to rely on [China’s] Beidou navigation system for precision targeting.

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## Inception-06

*ZABARDAST*- *MASHALLAH- SHUKAR ALLHAMDULLILA-ALLAH HU AKBAR- PAKISTAN-Zindabad*: that will change a lot for our enemies in any future aggression against Pakistan.

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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> they can fix it in near future its not your problem


But $10 billion come on man it is a mouth watering amount it is every ones problem. I have few Italian friend on Fuse that can help with the issue much cheaper.


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## Rashid Mahmood

RISING SUN said:


> Sir what is IA?
> Off topic, I felt bit of strange feeling like negative excitement maybe, unable to explain it though. It happens with me whenever there is some strategic development concerning my country. On topic
> Pakistan has justified every investment till now which works. Never mind whether it's home built or not. Till it's fulfilling your national requirements it's really good. India is far behind in this, I acknowledge that in my personal opinion. This launch was certainly out of blue for many including me but I had idea that your country does have AIP subs which if reconfigured can prove to be deadly. It's moment to be proud as same is your right. Really a strategic development. Congratulations to you all. Thank you.



IA = InshaAllah

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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> But $10 billion come on man it is a mouth watering amount it is every ones problem. I have few Italian friend on Fuse that can help with the issue much cheaper.


Radar is a principle detection and navigation methods of everything in the world got it kid on not


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## RISING SUN

amardeep mishra said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> Thanks for tagging me! Congrats if it indeed was achieved through indigenous research. I only wish they were a little more transparent with their R&D efforts thats all!


Not required.


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## SherDil

Mentee said:


> Allah Akbar
> 
> Ethy rakh malangi
> Leave him bro ,lets not spoil the party  @The Sandman @Doordie @tps77 @SherDil007 @The Eagle guys show your bhangra moves  Buraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 367184

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## RISING SUN

Rashid Mahmood said:


> IA = InshaAllah


O o!!! Missed that.


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## lonelyman

Big congrats and Best wishes, especially our common neighbor couldn't even accomplish land based cm

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## RISING SUN

punit said:


> k SEIES : K -15 and K-4 both were tested from pantoon as well from INS Arihant.
> 
> K missile got nothing to do with russia. they are derived from Agni Series.


Stop it yaar.


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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> Radar is a principle detection and navigation methods of everything in the world got it kid on not


LOL that was a $10 billion principle method and was unable to detect got boy. You are just a commentator keep it that way and what you are trying to talk about is above your pay grade.


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## kṣamā

Congrats Pakistan. They played their strength and got what they deserved.

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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> LOL that was a $10 billion principle method and was unable to detect got boy. You are just a commentator keep it that way and what you are trying to talk about is above your pay grade.


Ok what the replacement of RADARs, yours FLIR go search google it has merely range of 10- 20 KM you acting like 8 year old kid with no information


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## django

amardeep mishra said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER
> 
> Thanks for tagging me! Congrats if it indeed was achieved through indigenous research. I only wish they were a* little more transparent with their R&D efforts thats all!*


So you guys could target our research,,,,no thanks


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## RISING SUN

neem456 said:


> Not trying to troll, but i am curious to know that why the missile bears two different colors in different phases of the clip.
> In first phase its white, in second its red, and third again white.
> Can somebody explain ?


It might be only for representative purpose. What it can do, that matters only. Live videos not mandatory to have.


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## SherDil

Devil Soul said:


>


الله اکبر 
A big achievement. Congrats to the entire Nation.

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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> Ok what the replacement of RADARs, yours FLIR go search google it has merely range of 10- 20 KM you acting like 8 year old kid with no information


Why the hell should I tell you about the replacement of Radar and why do you want to know when you don't believe that radar can be evaded. Go and spend $10 billion and try to research it out. Or agree with me and I will give a link to my development community and they will give you the answer.


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## punit

RISING SUN said:


> Stop it yaar.


any problem ?


----------



## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> Why the hell should I tell you about the replacement of Radar and why do you want to know when you don't believe that radar can be evaded. Go and spend $10 billion and try to research it out. Or agree with me and I will give a link to my development community and they will give you the answer.


because you have no answer for me, just live in you wet dreams of your, radar is a machine it has a development glitches and then fix it later you have no answer for me kid you are acting like a insane


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## ejaz007

*Pakistan Reveals Test of Submarine-Launched Missile*
By: Usman Ansari, January 9, 2017 (Photo Credit: Syed Zargham/Getty Images)

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan on Monday publicly acknowledged for the first time it had successfully tested a submarine-launched cruise missile. 

The date of the test is unclear, and the trial may have been carried out beforehand. Nevertheless, according to a statement by Inter-Services Public Relations, the military’s media branch, the test of the 450-kilometer range Babur 3 was carried out “from an undisclosed location in the Indian Ocean” from “an underwater, mobile platform”. 

The latter implies the test was carried out from one of Pakistan’s Agosta-70 or Agosta-90B submarines. 

Babur 3 was stated to be a sub-launched variant of the land-based Babur 2, which was tested in December 2016 and features improved avionics and accuracy. Babur 3 features “underwater controlled propulsion and advanced guidance and navigation features, duly augmented by Global Navigation, Terrain and Scene Matching Systems.” 

It was also claimed to have sea-skimming and terrain-hugging flight characteristics to evade radar detection and interception — especially with regard to future regional missile defense capabilities, a veiled reference to India’s efforts in missile technology. 

A further such reference to India was made in stating that the successful development of a second-strike capability was a “manifestation of the strategy of measured response to nuclear strategies and postures being adopted in Pakistan’s neighborhood.” 

Development of Babur 3 was also hailed as “a step towards [Pakistan] reinforcing policy of credible minimum deterrence.” 

Mansoor Ahmed, a postdoctoral research fellow at Harvard University's Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs and an expert on Pakistan’s nuclear program and delivery systems, said Babur 3 is a “significant milestone” in Pakistan’s effort to complete its nuclear triad. 

“It has proven the speculation that Pakistan will not follow India’s pathway to a naval leg of the triad via nuclear submarines but opt for a more cost-effective solution tailored to its own strategic calculus and capabilities,” he said. 

Combined with the very low frequency communication facility unveiled last year, Ahmed believes Pakistan’s Naval Strategic Force Command can now deploy nuclear-armed cruise missiles on its conventional submarines to ensure a credible second-strike capability. 

This is likely to be fully utilized onboard the forthcoming air-independent propulsion-equipped Hangor-class submarines designed by and co-produced with China. 

Ahmed further highlighted two points: that the Babur 3 can carry any type of warhead, courtesy of Pakistan’s plutonium production program, which has enabled production of miniaturized nuclear devices for its range of missiles from Babur to the Shaheen III ballistic missile that covers all of Indian territory; and that Pakistan’s sea-based deterrent “is also likely to rely on [China’s] Beidou navigation system for precision targeting. 
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/defense-innovation-board-members-pledge-to-stay-on

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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> because you have no answer for me, just live in you wet dreams of your, radar is a machine it has a development glitches and then fix it later you have no answer for me kid you are acting like insane


You people don't even know who hacked the DNC and what else is hacked and you want to argue over tech of RADAR. You Americans can only make good use of microwaves for cooking. You cannot develop a needle until congress approves a $10 billion fund for it. I have your answer I promise it you agree and I will give you the link to the community. Boeing just got it's new drone design from the community.


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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> You people don't even know who hacked the DNC and what else is hacked and you want to argue over tech of RADAR. You Americans can only make good use of microwaves for cooking. You cannot develop a needle until congress approves a $10 billion fund for it. I have your answer I promise it you agree and I will give you the link to the community. Boeing just got it's new drone design from the community.


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## RISING SUN

punit said:


> any problem ?


It feels bad when someone posts off topic missile in another thread. It's not about Indian slbm, rather it's about Pakistan slcm. That's all I have to say.

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## punit

RISING SUN said:


> It feels bad when someone posts off topic missile in another thread. It's not about Indian slbm, rather it's about Pakistan slcm. That's all I have to say.


it was because some one asked me about K series SLBM. dont react without getting full picture. over and out.

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## graphican

Correction:

The video suggests range of Tomahawk is 1500MILES which is 2414KM. Babur-I would be carrying some similar range as well, and if Babur-I can reach this distance, Babur-III should be able to reach 1000KM at least. 

Just few estimates.

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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> You people don't even know who hacked the DNC and what else is hacked and you want to argue over tech of RADAR. You Americans can only make good use of microwaves for cooking. You cannot develop a needle until congress approves a $10 billion fund for it. I have your answer I promise it you agree and I will give you the link to the community. Boeing just got it's new drone design from the community.


All countries uses and develop radars for detection and navigation not only US


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## ejaz007

*Pakistan fires 'first submarine-launched nuclear-capable missile'*

Pakistan fired its first submarine-launched cruise missile on Monday, the military said, a show of force for a country that sees its missile development as a deterrent against arch-foe India.

The launch of the nuclear-capable Babur-3 missile, which has a range of 450 km (280 miles) and was fired from an undisclosed location in the Indian Ocean, is likely to heighten long-running tension between India and Pakistan.

The nuclear-armed neighbors have fought three wars since independence from Britain in 1947. Both nations have been developing missiles of varying ranges since they conducted nuclear tests in May 1998.

"Pakistan eyes this hallmark development as a step toward reinforcing the policy of credible minimum deterrence," the military's media wing said in a statement.

A spokesman at the Indian defense ministry was not immediately available to comment on the Pakistani missile test.

India successfully test-fired a nuclear-capable, submarine-launched missile in 2008 and tested a submarine-launched cruise missile in 2013.

The Pakistani military said the Babur-3 missile was "capable of delivering various types of payloads and will provide Pakistan with a Credible Second Strike Capability, augmenting deterrence".

An army spokesman later confirmed the language meant the missile was equipped to carry nuclear warheads.

The Babur-3 is a sea-based variant of the ground-launched Babur-2 missile, which was tested in December. The military said the missile had features such as "underwater controlled propulsion and advanced guidance and navigation".

Last year, Pakistan said it was "seriously concerned" by India's test of anti-ballistic missiles which media reports said could intercept incoming nuclear weapons.

According to media reports, on May 15 India tested a locally designed Anti-Ballistic Missile system which could in theory intercept a nuclear-carrying ballistic missile.
(Writing by Mehreen Zahra-Malik; Editing by Nick Macfie)

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pakistan-missiles-idUSKBN14T1EL

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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> All countries uses and develop radars for detection and navigation not only US


Man you are pissing me of. Okay I give up what do you want to know? aks one question 
1. How to evade Radar 100%
OR
2. How to detect a stealthy object
I will answer only one.


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## Naif al Hilali

Fenrir said:


> To say Babur is a stealthy platform is questionable...
> 
> Babur, like Tomahawk has a cruciform tail and straight wings. It's shaping doesn't show any stealthy considerations - round with many straight edges and planes. Now it could have RAM paint which helps, and greatly increases the cost of the missile, but that doesn't make a platform invisible, it just helps to reduce the distance at which a platform is detected for a given wavelength. Optimize wrong and you'll still be lit up light a Christmas tree.
> 
> What Babur does have is a small profile and terrain hugging/sea-skimming capability which helps mask it from sensors like IIR, Electro-Optical or Radar scanners, but that's inherent to most modern missiles.
> 
> In terms of actual stealth optimized submarine launched cruise missiles you're looking at NSM-SL which was designed from the ground up to maximize all aspect stealth. It has a low IR signature, a radar cross section reducing airframe and uses composites to further enhance this effect and does not use active seekers like active radar homing and relies strictly on passive guidance like DSMAC, dual-band IIR and home-on-ECM...
> 
> Babur is more similar to Tomahawk and SCALP Naval and likely features some signature reduction techniques like passive guidance using GPS or internal navigation which limit the effectiveness of electronic countermeasures and make the missile's approach less noticeable then using active homing, and it likely has some form of IR suppression too, but it's profile does not indicate radar cross section reduction unless using RAM.
> 
> I wouldn't call it a "stealth" platform like I would NSM, but it has elements which make it less detectable too...
> 
> ...
> 
> BHarwana has made many questionable claims and assertions. I've wanted to address several but felt it would be unproductive. I'd recommend you not engage them anymore for both your and the threads sake.


Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

Spot-on analysis as always. That is why I keep silent while Fenrir and Penguin are on this forum; they can always reply better.

Best not to engage trolls - only brings heart ache and a ban. If someone does not like your opinion or post, so be it. Hope I follow that advice

Hifz u kum Allah

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## BHarwana

graphican said:


> The video suggests range of Tomahawk is 1500MILES which is 2414KM. Babur-I would be carrying some similar range as well, and if Babur-I can reach this distance, Babur-III should be able to reach 1000KM at least.
> 
> Just few estimates.


We have a submarine based cruise missile launch technology of more than 1000km but there is one problem. The current submarines we have the size of torpedo tubes they have can only allow fuel for 450 km and as it is a jet engine based missile you only need to increase the fuel load to achieve more range but in this case it had to compensated for a nuclear war head so the version with conventional war head is more and we need a new submarine for a long range missile.


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## ashok321

Pakistan top 3 

*China–Pakistan Economic Corridor - Wikipedia*
*Pakistan Stock Exchange declared Asia's best market | Top Story ...*
*Missile Babur: Pakistan test-fires first nuclear-capable submarine ...*


----------



## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> Man you are pissing me of. Okay I give up what do you want to know? aks one question
> 1. How to evade Radar 100%
> OR
> 2. How to detect a stealthy object
> I will answer only one.


hare it is enjoy counter stealth by radar
http://www.researchinventy.com/papers/v3i12/D0312015019.pdf


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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> hare it is enjoy counter stealth by radar
> http://www.researchinventy.com/papers/v3i12/D0312015019.pdf


LOL this is a broken link
Got it working after editing.


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## ashok321

BHarwana said:


> LOL this is a broken link
> Got it working after editing.



http://www.researchinventy.com/papers/v3i12/D0312015019.pdf


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## singlefighter

The Deterrent said:


> It seems so. It was only supposed to be a symbolic tradition anyways.
> Shaheen-IA/III and Babur-II/III all don't have corresponding Hatf designations.



Bro i think Hatf was only used as a symbolic name in ballistic missiles series like Ghauri ,Ghaznavi,Abdali,Shaheen, and even Nasr tactical so in the past no cruise missile name Hatf ( the lance of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w) but it was good feeling of the name Hatf


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## BHarwana

*


pakistanipower said:



hare it is enjoy counter stealth by radar
http://www.researchinventy.com/papers/v3i12/D0312015019.pdf 

Click to expand...


Pyotr Yakovlevich Ufimtsev was a russian scientist. *who developed the mathematical formula to evade RADAR which USA has used to make stealthy air crafts and RADAR can be evaded 100%
Here is a link to the History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petr_Ufimtsev
Here is a link to evade RADAR http://www.scienpress.com/Upload/JCM/Vol 4_1_9.pdf
But these are old tech I am talking about something new.
Accept defeat and I will give you the link.


----------



## Khafee

The Eagle said:


> The statements that I read and noted a bit of information, I will ink down my observations as following. (Not my field at all). First of all, by the grace of ALLAH, we have the capability of Second Strike by Babur-III.
> 
> 
> If it was the first test then obviously we wouldn't risk one of our Sub because, there are always possibilities of technical glitches or error so Sub cannot be risked, therefore, in layman's terms, a replica like Sub (a platform representing Sub) with same style of launch, tube push, ejection is used and every bit of details and readings are noted for finalization etc purpose. As a platform, not an original Sub, is used then still the weapon be called as SLCM due to its purpose and method as well as real goal. By doing so, finally taking everything into account, the weapon become mature and can be launched from original/targeted Sub and be called operational as successful in final test hence induction.
> The weapon is being tested extensively for time to time to it's real/aimed and targeted results and once every thing is finalized/trusted after all checkups, is being tested again from original launch platform on the basis of all previous tests from replica/test platform.
> It is true that a new weapon will not be tested from original platform directly but has to reach to such stage after trials through test platform.
> As @Rashid Mahmood said, test was done almost 2 years ago, actually tells that this weapon matured through test platform during 2 years hence finally launched from original Sub hence is equal to having the capability in final stage.
> If we go by the term launched from underwater platform so it may be the same launching platform called as replica in this post, to finalize the launch, weapon, tube exit etc and then, as results are satisfactory, will again be tested from original Sub (Augosta 90B etc).
> The confusion w.r.t. launch platform will be more clear in coming days but professional and informed posters words are to be taken as credible for the moment as well by looking at accuracy of hitting the target, seems like a lot of work is already done and many readings were available from previous tests.
> @Oscar @Khafee @Rashid Mahmood @The Deterrent



Thank You for the tag. 

The last time I said something not in the public domain, (link below) bird brains and their supporters (including title holders) went nuts, Mods sat on the sidelines and watched the world go by. So in future, I will not comment on things that are not there in the public domain.

Have a nice Day!

https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...-2-cruise-missile.466682/page-12#post-9010214

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## Rashid Mahmood

Khafee said:


> Thank You for the tag.
> 
> The last time I said something not in the public domain, (link below) bird brains and their supporters (including title holders) went nuts, Mods sat on the sidelines and watched the world go by. So in future, I will not comment on things that are not there in the public domain.
> 
> Have a nice Day!
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...-2-cruise-missile.466682/page-12#post-9010214



Bro you don't need to feel down.

I see and read a lot of stupid/lame logics/comments/ideas/analysis, on which I laugh, but remain quite as it serves no purpose.

I also refrain from commenting on such issues before hand, like in this case.
There is alot of info, which if told, will blow minds of these google champions, but at the appropriate time.

So just love your country and pray for it's glory, which is inevitable by the will of Allah.

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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> LOL this is a broken link
> Got it working after editing.


https://news.usni.org/2014/06/09/u-s-navys-secret-counter-stealth-weapon-hiding-plain-sight
http://www.scienpress.com/Upload/JCM/Vol 4_1_9.pdf
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a515506.pdf
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-search-radar-for-counter-stealth-use-135233/
want more?


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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> want more?


Look this war of stealth can go on for ever lets be practical these are all theories you are giving me I gave you some thing concrete and proven research.



pakistanipower said:


> https://news.usni.org/2014/06/09/u-s-navys-secret-counter-stealth-weapon-hiding-plain-sight
> http://www.scienpress.com/Upload/JCM/Vol 4_1_9.pdf
> http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a515506.pdf
> https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-search-radar-for-counter-stealth-use-135233/
> want more?



This is how desperate USA was to observe the launch
https://www.rt.com/news/373052-us-navy-iran-shots/

Still the were not able to detect it.


----------



## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> Look this war of stealth can go on for ever lets be practical these are all theories you are giving me I gave you some thing concrete and proven research.


theories becomes practical, its a race between stealth and radars you build stealth then your enemy counter stealth radar than you build better stealth and your enemy again build a better counter stealth radar the race will continue
*so you say that there are no counter stealth technology in world currently **if you said so you live on your LALA LAND*



BHarwana said:


> Look this war of stealth can go on for ever lets be practical these are all theories you are giving me I gave you some thing concrete and proven research.
> 
> 
> 
> This is how desperate USA was to observe the launch
> https://www.rt.com/news/373052-us-navy-iran-shots/
> 
> Still the were not able to detect it.


So what?


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## BHarwana

Stealth got through this time.


pakistanipower said:


> So what?


----------



## Khafee

Rashid Mahmood said:


> Bro you don't need to feel down.
> 
> I see and read a lot of stupid/lame logics/comments/ideas/analysis, on which I laugh, but remain quite as it serves no purpose.
> 
> I also refrain from commenting on such issues before hand, like in this case.
> There is alot of info, which if told, will blow minds of these google champions, but at the appropriate time.
> 
> So just love your country and pray for it's glory, which is inevitable by the will of Allah.



Sir, Thank you for your kind words, and support. Appreciate it.

The problem is not what the average joe like to speculate or extract from you, but the inaction of the mods, or their support of trolls, clueless title holders, pro-Iranian/ pro-zionist propagandists, that one is forced to think is this forum really a Pakistani forum, that goes directly against Pakistan's foreign policy? Hence, should one be actually contributing to it?

Therefore my decision to limit my myself.

Best Regards

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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> Stealth got through this time.


show me a that Iranian ship has a stealth its ordinary military ship, show me iran has a stealth capability

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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> show me a that Iranian ship has a stealth its ordinary military ship, show me iran has a stealth capability


lol USA was trying to monitor Pakistani missile launch and to do so as the RADAR was not detecting they pushed near and near. Iran and USA got shots fired.


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## Falcon26

Khafee said:


> Sir, Thank you for your kind words, and support. Appreciate it.
> 
> The problem is not what the average joe like to speculate or extract from you, but the inaction of the mods, or their support of trolls, clueless title holders, pro-Iranian/ pro-zionist propagandists, that one is forced to think is this forum really a Pakistani forum, that goes directly against Pakistan's foreign policy? Hence, should one be actually contributing to it?
> 
> Therefore my decision to limit my myself.
> 
> Best Regards



I made a similar statement once and my comment was deleted right away. Sometime this forum doesn't feel like a Pakistani forum.

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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> lol USA was trying to monitor Pakistani missile launch and to do so as the RADAR was not detecting they pushed near and near. Iran and USA got shots fired.


how do you know that are you in that US ship or working ISI agent in US they have spy satellite to monitor


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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> they have spy satellite to monitor


Remember that $10 billion piece of crap not working. so they were trying it with a ship. LOL

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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> Remember that $10 billion piece of crap not working. so they were trying it with a ship. LOL


your all posts are illogical and insane, spy satellite is there no need for navy ship


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## BHarwana

pakistanipower said:


> your all posts are illogical and insane, spy satellite is there no need for navy ship


Spy Sat has no info where a Sub is under water so get a grip man. If spy sat had any such capability they would have used them to search for flight MH370 and not spent millions on search efforts.


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## Ultima Thule

BHarwana said:


> Spy Sat has no info where a Sub is under water so get a grip man. If spy sat had any such capability they would have used them to search for flight MH370 and not spent millions on search efforts.


yaar don't fool you yaar stop it so much stupidity


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## Rashid Mahmood

Khafee said:


> Sir, Thank you for your kind words, and support. Appreciate it.
> 
> The problem is not what the average joe like to speculate or extract from you, but the inaction of the mods, or their support of trolls, clueless title holders, pro-Iranian/ pro-zionist propagandists, that one is forced to think is this forum really a Pakistani forum, that goes directly against Pakistan's foreign policy? Hence, should one be actually contributing to it?
> 
> Therefore my decision to limit my myself.
> 
> Best Regards



Limiting oneself only benefits the trolls.
The mods have to run a forum, so they have to give some relaxations here n there.
Don't worry, the Admins are spirited Pakistani's.

Keep working in the right direction and let the by standers have a laugh. 
It show's there worth. not yours.

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## Taha Farid Malik

Congrats to us on this landmark achievement. Alhamdulillah!

My first post on PDF after being a silent reader for 3 years. So glad that my first comment is to celebrate the success of Babur-3

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## cabatli_53

Devil Soul said:


> *Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor* ‏@OfficialDGISPR  5m5 minutes ago
> #Pakistan successfully test fired first Submarine launched Cruise Missile Babur-3. Rg 450 Km. #COAS congrats Nation and the team involved.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818427713627295745



That's what i mean deterrence and strategic attacking capability shocking the enemy minds. Congratulations brothers... Maşallah! What a great achievement!

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## krash

razgriz19 said:


> Have we tested it already? I remember the last test was just labelled as a routine operational test. That must have been Babur-2 then?



It was conducted only a few weeks ago.

http://dunyanews.tv/en/Pakistan/365392-Pakistan-successfully-test-fires-Babur-Cruise-Miss



Cookie Monster said:


> In this day and age as Missile defense systems are becoming increasingly accurate. MIRV is crucial but for that ICBM capability is a must. This should be the next logical step of progression.



How and why would you need an ICBM for MIRV?



SrNair said:


> But can you clear these doubts?
> After I see this post and recheck that video again .It seems at the initial stage it has white colour and then at mid flight it has red colour .
> Why these variation?
> Vapour formation or camera glitches .
















Do you see the red now? Apart from the very obvious fact that the missile is coloured both red and white, and the video isn't much for its quality, you'd have seen this picture when it was posted a dozen times before on this very thread, had you actually wanted to clear your doubts. Please share it on Indian forums too.



texfab said:


> No yet missing Neuclear sub



How and why does one need a nuclear sub to complete a nuclear triad?




yavar said:


> AS i expected . nonsense as you failed to provide not even signal UN sanction or UNSCR sanction nor UNSCR under chapter seven
> 
> your bluff is now well exposed . Pakistan never been under sanction . only some amemnt bill and restriction passed by US congress . none what so ever international sanction .
> 
> Pakistan Has put sanction on other countries but never been under sanction .
> 
> many other countries has achieved SLCM long before Pakistan with tons of UNSCR on them with zero access to international marketr without any financial banking .



For the sake of not throwing a spanner in the trajectory of human evolution, I'd advise educating yourself every once in a while.

https://www.nonproliferation.org/wp-content/uploads/npr/morrow64.pdf

http://www.ipedr.com/vol39/028-ICITE2012-K00006.pdf

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB896356796170481500

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## Fawad alam

Heartily Congratulations to All Pakistan and Pakistan strategic defence force the real servents of Mighty Allah.
May Allah protect this force for sake of all Muslim Ummah, we are sooo much proud of you[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji173]


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## FlyingAce

Need of the Hour, Well Done SPD, All the Scientists & Engineers, CO & HIs team onboard the Sub, Pakistan is indeed coming out strong as a Nuclear State! 
Long Live Pakistan, Pak Armed Forces.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

yavar said:


> AS i expected . nonsense as you failed to provide not even signal UN sanction or UNSCR sanction nor UNSCR under chapter seven
> 
> your bluff is now well exposed . Pakistan never been under sanction . only some amemnt bill and restriction passed by US congress . none what so ever international sanction .
> 
> Pakistan Has put sanction on other countries but never been under sanction .
> 
> many other countries has achieved SLCM long before Pakistan with tons of UNSCR on them with zero access to international marketr without any financial banking .




Please name those nations. So now they Presseler agreement did not exist as did similar punitive measures that were designed to cripple the Pakistan military in the 1990s?????........ so now according to your logic the Americans have been selling Pakistan state-of-the-art art military technologies.........

Your assertive are just as ridiculous and retarded as are indian claims that Pakistan would NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance.....

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## AUz

cabatli_53 said:


> That's what i mean deterrence and strategic attacking capability shocking the enemy minds. Congratulations brothers... Maşallah! What a great achievement!



We would be happier if Turkey also develops similar capabilities and strengthen it's indigenous defence production capabilities, Inshallah!

Best of luck to Turkey in that regard as well


@gambit Sir, watch the video in the opening post and give us your insight.

What do you think of this achievement by a developing state like Pakistan?

How complex/not-so-complex it is to launch a cruise missile from under water and all?

Looking forward to hearing what you have to say!

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## Bratva

SrNair said:


> But can you clear these doubts?
> After I see this post and recheck that video again .It seems at the initial stage it has white colour and then at mid flight it has red colour .
> Why these variation?
> Vapour formation or camera glitches .

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## F86 Saber

The Indians be like, "It was white when it was launched, turned black and white mid way, then white and red, then pure black and then white again, rama ye kia chamatkar hai...... Jaroor ye Pakistan ke koi sajish hai"

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## Devil Soul

*Pakistan’s Tests New Sub-Launched Nuclear-Capable Cruise Missile. What Now?*
Pakistan’s successful test of the Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile presents new challenges.

By Ankit Panda and Vipin Narang
January 10, 2017


On Monday, Pakistan announced that it had successfully carried out the first-ever test of its nuclear-capable Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM) from a submerged platform. The test took place at an unspecified location in the Indian Ocean off the Pakistani coast. Maj. Gen. Asif Ghafoor of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Public Relations released limited footage of the test on Twitter that shows the missile’s ejection, launch, and finally striking a target with reasonable accuracy. The Babur-3 SLCM is officially rated for a range of 450 kilometers.

Pakistan’s Babur-3 SLCM is ultimately designed for use with its _Agosta_ 90bBdiesel-electric submarines, which have reportedly been modified to enable SLCM launches, but remain untested in this regard. Per the Pakistani military’s statement regarding the test, the Babur-3 “is a sea-based variant of Ground Launched Cruise Missile (GLCM) Babur-2, which was successfully tested earlier in December, last year.”

Critically, the Babur-3 is capable of nuclear payload delivery. Once fully developed and tested on-board a submarine, Pakistan would possess – in theory, at least – a sea-based second strike capability. Pakistan has been working toward this capability for years; in 2012, it set up a Naval Strategic Force Command. Pakistan’s statement notes this with little ambiguity: “Babur-3 SLCM in land-attack mode, is capable of delivering various types of payloads and will provide Pakistan with a Credible Second Strike Capability, augmenting deterrence.” Specifically, the statement noted that the Babur-3 test was a “step towards reinforcing [Pakistan’s] policy of credible minimum deterrence.”

*Enjoying this article?* Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.
Pakistan’s inaugural test of the Babur-3 SLCM raises several questions regarding the future of strategic stability between it and India, as both march toward a nuclear triad. For reference, India tested a 3,000 km submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) variant dubbed K-4 (the naval version of the Agni III missile) from an underwater pontoon in March 2014 before testing it from the Arihant submarine last year. Specifically, the consequences of Pakistan acquiring what it perceives as a credible sea-based second strike capability, depending on a range of factors, may both stabilize and destabilize the delicate nuclear balance between South Asia’s two nuclear-armed rivals.

First, regarding a nuclear SLCM capability, the upside is that if Pakistan believes the Babur-3 will enhance the survivability of its second strike forces, it can afford to have a less forward-leaning posture with its land-based tactical nuclear forces. This is primarily because Pakistani military planners will have less reason to fear the “use it or lose it” dilemma at the start of a conflict with India. So if this is a step toward bolstering Pakistan’s belief in the survivability of its strategic forces, that should contribute to strategic stability and may not require its planning to necessarily prepare for the early use of lower-order nuclear options. Pakistan’s possession of the Babur-3 means that it can be more confident overall that any first Indian strike would not be totally disarming.

Nevertheless, there are several problems with the above. First, are Pakistani nuclear submarines actually survivable? The belief that submarine-based nuclear forces are almost completely invulnerable against modern anti-submarine warfare techniques is overstated. The United States’ SSBN force might be, but regional power submarines – such as Pakistan’s Agostas – almost certainly are not. They are noisy and are theoretically more easily detectable than U.S. nuclear submarines. The Pakistani _Agosta_-class submarines are diesel-electric and so they are quieter than first-generation nuclear submarines, but these boats are far from completely invulnerable. Pakistan possesses just three _Agosta _90B submarines, the PNS/M _Khalid_, the PNS/M _Saad_, and the PNS/M _Hamza_. (Pakistan may receive eight modified Chinese S20 _Yuan_-class diesel-electric submarines that may be capable of fielding the SLCM.)

Like India, Pakistan will have to choose which model to manage its limited nuclear submarines. A ‘bastion’ model that keeps them in port until a crisis makes them extremely vulnerable to being sunk as they are flushed out of known locations. A ‘continuous deterrent patrol’ model runs the risk of unauthorized use and accidents in a crowded Indian Ocean, with possibly limited suitable deterrent patrol boxes, while also giving the Indian Navy ample opportunity to track the signature of the submarines to sink them in war.

Of course, the survivability problem is not one for not only China and India, and certainly Pakistan, but there is increasing evidence that the U.S. was pretty good at tracking even Soviet SSBNs during the Cold War. Whether India can track and kill Agostas remains an unknown, but is theoretically possible. So despite Pakistani perceptions of the Babur-3-equipped _Agosta_-class submarines contributing to its deterrent, the survivability question may prove destabilizing.

Second, will Pakistan deploy both conventional and nuclear Agostas, and how will adversaries know the difference? Pakistan having its _Agosta_-class submarines carry missiles tipped with both conventional and nuclear warheads is a recipe for a major catastrophe borne of misperception. In a crisis or war, the Indian Navy will try to sink anything it can find. If Indian ASW forces find a Pakistani _Agosta-_class submarine, they may have to operate under the assumption that the submarine in question is carrying nuclear SLCMs in addition to conventional warheads. Discrimination, thus, will be a major problem and portends serious accidents and unintended escalation.

Finally, does Pakistan have a sufficient and robust enough command and control infrastructure to safely and reliable manage a submarine based nuclear force? This is another area where the Pakistani Navy faces a problem common to many countries in possession of nuclear submarine forces. How exactly will Pakistan manage a submarine-based nuclear force, where the warhead will have to be pre-mated with the Babur-3 SLCM before the submarine leaves port? Does Pakistan have enough confidence in its very low frequency (VLF) and extremely low frequency (ELF) communication with these _Agosta_ submarines that it can afford to put negative controls on the weapons such that they cannot be fired without central inputs? Probably not.

This leaves us with a dangerous and destabilizing state of affairs where the captain of a Pakistani Navy submarine will likely end up in possession of at least the physical ability to release nuclear weapons when on deterrent patrol. This could lead to serious unauthorized use or accidents. If the submarine captain cannot reach the civilian-led National Command Authority, will he assume it has been destroyed and release nuclear weapons of his own volition? If the answer to this is “yes,” then Pakistan’s sea-based deterrent will be based around a drastically different overarching principle from how it claims to manage its land-based forces, which are kept under central control until deep into a crisis.

Monday’s test of the Babur-3 should encourage analysts in New Delhi and Islamabad to seriously think through some of the above questions. For both India and Pakistan — but especially Pakistan — a question to mull over seriously is whether the command and control (C2) challenges of maintaining a submarine nuclear force are so great and simply generate more vulnerabilities than the deterrence benefits of a questionably survivable platform in a shooting war. Despite the Pakistani military exhortations that the Babur-3 reinforces its doctrine of “credible minimum deterrence,” pushing ahead with an undersea deterrent without full consideration of the associated costs may ultimately prove deleterious to South Asian strategic stability.

_Ankit Panda (@nktpnd) is senior editor at _The Diplomat. _Vipin Narang (@NarangVipin) is an associate professor of political science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology._
-------------------

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## Khanate

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Please name those nations. So now they Presseler agreement did not exist as did similar punitive measures that were designed to cripple the Pakistan military in the 1990s?????........ so now according to your logic the Americans have been selling Pakistan state-of-the-art art military technologies.........
> 
> Your assertive are just as ridiculous and retarded as are indian claims that Pakistan would NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance.....

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## CriticalThought

Masha Allah. Alhamdulillah.

I have been on the forum intermittently and haven't been following the news. When I first saw this thread, I actually thought its just one more fan boy thread! But then the number of replies went up to 800 and I am like, OK I need to look into this. Congrats to all the scientists and all fellow Pakistanis.

In terms of next steps, well the very first step is to make an anti-ship version of this nuclear tipped missile. Effective against large aircraft carrier battle groups.


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## [--Leo--]

Finally a dream come true . i hope after some tests they will increase range make babur flight low 
anyways happy about the test at least some thing new 
Mubarak ho

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## Windjammer

Babur-3 SLCM being launched from a submarine. Official picture released by the ISPR.

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## Fawad alam

Heartily Congratulations to All Pakistan and Pakistan strategic defence force the real servents of Mighty Allah.
May Allah protect this force for sake of all Muslim Ummah, we are sooo much proud of you












.

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## Salza

Congrats to all the missile engineers, PN and Army as a whole. This is massive technology demonstration with deadly accuracy. All Indian coastal and Naval targets are under our firing squad now. Technically its impossible to stop a cruise missile fired from a hidden submarine with current's technology.

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## tahir195

uffff hit with100% accuracy awesome


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## singlefighter

Zarvan said:


> By the way is it first time that they have shown a Missile hitting its target or they have shown even before ????????????



Yes in the Nasr missile test of multi tube launcher they showed the missile hitting the target pole and the anti ship also has video of hitting target


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## Penguin

tanlixiang28776 said:


> It factors in 6 torpedoes for each


Correct, I overlooked that. Still, it would mean these 8 subs cannot to much else besides sitting there and be a nuclear deterrent. Simply put, they would seek to remain undiscovered as best they could i.e. avoid any activity that can give them away. Which would leave PN with a gaping hole in its ASW, notwithstanding 8 SSKs. Likewise for anti-surface action (i.e. deterring aircraft carrier action). Also, I doubt PN would/can have these 8 subs out there at sea all at the same time (for pov of logistics, maintenance needs, crew fatigue etc. so in practice the number of 96 would unlikely be achieved at any given moment, unless with ample planning and up front and then only for a short duraton i.e. a first strike scenario.)


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## AMCA

Samlee said:


> *For Our Entertainment *



Well you already have it. What more do you require?


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## IceCold

Khafee said:


> *Therefore my decision to limit my myself.*
> 
> Best Regards



Now you too Sir?

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## Penguin

The SC said:


> it is a very difficult and complicated technology, Pakistan has achieved a technological milestone with this Submarine launched cruise missile.. you should congratulate Pakistan on this..because usually one has to buy them off the shelf either from the US or France or others, and no one will give you ToT for this, so it is quite an achievement for Pakistan to be self sufficient in this very vital field..you can think of it as a 3rd, but minimum deterrent for now, still it is an important step for full 3rd capability deterrence..


I don't know if you noticed but I have in fact congratulated Pakistan several times now.


The above post you quoted explains how a cruise missile is launched from underwater. It does not contain any reason fro you to lecture me on what I should or should not do. In fact, I have in the past been pointing out here that there was no publicly available evidence that Pakistan had managed to produce this launching technique, precisely because having a submarine and having a missile alone is necessary but not sufficient condition. And in this thread I pointed out that one launch does not yet equal a credible sea based deterrent yet (PN would need at least 5 SSKs operational, all of which fitted for targeting and firing this particular missile as well as key communiations links to land, air and ship based command and control assets.) Pakistan is moving in that direction, but like I said, one launch doesn 't mean all the required stuff is in place and operational at this time.

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## HANI

height of ignorance...... Indian members are now posting articals that it was basically chines Sub launching Chines SLCM for us to claim it as baber haaahahahahahahah

Any ways JALNE WALO KA MU KALA ..............
Congrates to all who love this country with heart and soul..................

From the contents of this press-release, it can safely be deduced that the cruise missile, a member of the Hatf-7 family, has a wingspan of 3.1 metres, length of 6 metres, diameter of 0.514 metres, and a mass of 900kg. Range of this SLCM has been claimed to be 450km, although it can attain 600km when carrying a 300kg warhead. The press-release’s contents need to be dissected, since they provide some pretty interesting insights into what is really at play here.

Firstly, it has been claimed that the maiden test-firing of the Babur-3 SLCM was conducted from an underwater, mobile platform that was located at an undisclosed location in the Indian Ocean. This test-firing, hailed as a 100% successful effort, was witnessed by the Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC) General Zubair Mahmood Hayat, DG Strategic Plans Division (SPD) Lieutenant General Mazhar Jamil, and the Commander Naval Strategic Force Command (NSFC). Notable absentees from this event were the PN’s Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Muhammad Zakaullah, and Shahid Nabeel, Chairman of the National Engineering and Science Commission (NESCOM)—a state-owned entity that owns the National Defence Complex, the industrial entity that has reportedly the Hatf-7/Babur family of cruise missiles. Short video-clips of this alleged test-firing () showed a cruise missiles breaking a water surface and adopting a shallow trajectory in elevation (meaning it was launched from a torpedo-tube and not a VLS cell), then cruising over land and finally hitting its designated target area somewhere in the vicinity of Balochistan’s Ras Koh mountain range.



Now, if the Babur-3 was indeed launched from a SSK belonging to the PN—and the PN has only three Agosta 90B and two Agosta 70B SSKs all of which are equipped with the THALES-supplied SUBTICS combat management system—then the fire-control system servers required for computing and transmitting the firing solution for/to the encapsulated Babur-3 would have to be integrated with the SUBTICS and the 533mm torpedo launch-tubes. This is an impossible task, given the fact that THALES does not share the operating source-codes of thre SUBTICS’ fire-control algorithms with anyone other than than own nation. Secondly, for the Babur-3 to have been fired from anywhere in the IOR and for the SLCM to reach Baluchistan, NOTAMs would have had to be issued at least 10 days in advance for clearly identifying the flight-path trajectory and cruising altitude for both airmen and merchant mariners. This was NOT done.
The closest NOTAM was in late December, which matches with the period of visit of Type-093 Shang class SSN to PakistanThirdly, as the video-clip shows, the test-firing was initiated from a submerged vehicle in clam waters (i.e. shallow waters), following which the SLCM cruised over a vast landmass, meaning the Babur-3’s entire flightpath was well within Pakistan’s territorial; waters and airspace. Lastly, the PN does not possess any naval vessel equipped with long-range precision-tracking radars, which is a prerequisite for any navy that is involved in test-firing land-attack cruise missiles. Therefore, all this brings us to only one conceivable conclusion:



The test-firing was initiated from a submerged Type 093 Shang-class SSN (that had left its homeport at Yulin in Hainan Island in the first week of December 2016) located well inside Pakistan’s territorial waters, and the SLCM fired was of 100% Chinese origin. Furthermore, this SLCM’s westward flightpath first along Pakistan’s coastline and then into western Baluchistan was ideal for the NESCOM’s missile trajectory-tracking sensors located at theSonmiani Flight Test Range in Sindh province. All this also ties in well with the Naval Strategic Force Command’s inauguration in 2012, and the commissioning of a VLF communications facility—PNS Hameed—on November 15, 2016.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/a-not-so-silent-war-babur-3-ssk-interception.471758/#ixzz4VLatbWB3


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## The SC

Penguin said:


> I don't know if you noticed but I have in fact congratulated Pakistan several times now.
> 
> 
> The above post you quoted explains how a cruise missile is launched from underwater. It does not contain any reason fro you to lecture me on what I should or should not do. In fact, I have in the past been pointing out here that there was no publicly available evidence that Pakistan had managed to produce this launching technique, precisely because having a submarine and having a missile alone is necessary b ut not sufficient condition. And in this thread I pointed out that one launch does not yet equal a credible sea based deterrent yet (PN would need at least 5 SSKs operational, all of which fitted for targeting and firing this particular missile as well as key communiations links to land, air and ship based command and control assets.) Pakistan is moving in that direction, but like I said, one launch doesn 't mean all the required stuff is in place and operational at this time.


If you read my post, you'll find out that I have agreed with you, I asked you to congratulate Pakistan , since you haven't done it in that post, I saw you latest posts where you did, please do not take it personally, I was not lecturing you, i was just asking, since it is a milestone as I have mentioned in my post. minimal or maximal, for now it provides some new deterrent.. and for the 5 submarine requirement , Pakistan has them,,5 Agosta, 2 diesel-electric and 3 diesel-electric with AIP and Pakistan as for latest news was also working on communication links with its subs..So take it easy..

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## Rashid Mahmood

Penguin said:


> I don't know if you noticed but I have in fact congratulated Pakistan several times now.
> 
> 
> The above post you quoted explains how a cruise missile is launched from underwater. It does not contain any reason fro you to lecture me on what I should or should not do. In fact, I have in the past been pointing out here that there was no publicly available evidence that Pakistan had managed to produce this launching technique, precisely because having a submarine and having a missile alone is necessary but not sufficient condition. And in this thread I pointed out that one launch does not yet equal a credible sea based deterrent yet (PN would need at least 5 SSKs operational, all of which fitted for targeting and firing this particular missile as well as key communiations links to land, air and ship based command and control assets.) Pakistan is moving in that direction, but like I said, one launch doesn 't mean all the required stuff is in place and operational at this time.



Respect your experience.
Babur 3 is fully operational now.

And this isn't the first launch.

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## Mentee

yavar said:


> north Korea has sanction and many more which had made more progress


 
Did any Pakistani poster provoke you ? My friend if you are here to cheerlead for the Indian plz go into the middle eastern section and celebrate along with em. You'll find plenty of indian strategic deals with Israel , uae and the u.s to cherish


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## Bilal Khan 777

Congratulations on the first public release on SLCM test. This is not the first test. Pakistan has long perfected tube / canister launched missile technology, being the operator of Harpoon since 30 years. This also demonstrates the indigenous submarine C4I developed by MTC in operation. Well done MTC and NDC.

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## CriticalThought

Penguin said:


> I don't know if you noticed but I have in fact congratulated Pakistan several times now.
> 
> 
> The above post you quoted explains how a cruise missile is launched from underwater. It does not contain any reason fro you to lecture me on what I should or should not do. In fact, I have in the past been pointing out here that there was no publicly available evidence that Pakistan had managed to produce this launching technique, precisely because having a submarine and having a missile alone is necessary but not sufficient condition. And in this thread I pointed out that one launch does not yet equal a credible sea based deterrent yet (PN would need at least 5 SSKs operational, all of which fitted for targeting and firing this particular missile as well as key communiations links to land, air and ship based command and control assets.) Pakistan is moving in that direction, but like I said, one launch doesn 't mean all the required stuff is in place and operational at this time.



Btw, where did you get that number of 5 SSKs?


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## Little Falcon

Congratulations! to whole nation and brothers for this success. We should not forget scientists and engineers, because of them this was possible.


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## Penguin

HANI said:


> Now, if the Babur-3 was indeed launched from a SSK belonging to the PN—and the PN has only three Agosta 90B and two Agosta 70B SSKs all of which are equipped with the THALES-supplied SUBTICS combat management system—then the fire-control system servers required for computing and transmitting the firing solution for/to the encapsulated Babur-3 would have to be integrated with the SUBTICS and the 533mm torpedo launch-tubes. This is an impossible task, given the fact that THALES does not share the operating source-codes of thre SUBTICS’ fire-control algorithms with anyone other than than own nation.


In Europe, the naval C4I systems industry is dominated by Thales, which builds a number of systems including Senit, Sewaco, Sic-21, Stacos, Tacticos and Tavitac

BAE Systems meanwhile produces a range of products including Acmis, Adaws-2000, Adimp, Nautis, SSCS and the SMCS-NG. Selex Sistemi Integrati of Italy produces the IPN-5, -10 and -20 systems, along with the Numc/Nupa Combat Management System (CMS). Saab Systems has enjoyed considerable success with its 9LV CMS series, while Atlas Elektronik has produced the Isus 90-1 system. Joint ventures between BAE Systems and Alenia Marconi have yielded the command and control systems for the Royal Navy's Type-45 class destroyers while collaborations between Thales and DCNS have resulted in the Subtics and Sycobs submarine command and control system, and the Setis-Fremm CMS. Finally, Terma has designed and produced the C-Flex system for the Kongelige Danske Marine (Royal Danish Navy) Absalon class command and support vessels.
Thales has enjoyed international success with its naval C4I systems. The company produced the Senit series of CMS which is deployed on the Marine Nationale (French Navy) Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier. Senit displays information from the ship's sensors and its communication systems and has been a popular choice for a number of navies. To this end, it equips the French Navy's Cassard class destroyers and the force's Foudre and Mistral class Landing Platform Dock and Horizon class frigates. Senit also equips the Royal Norwegian Navy's Skjold class fast attack craft and the Royal Saudi Navy's Al-Riyadh class frigates. The company has enjoyed similar widespread success with the Sewaco combat data system, which, like the Senit system, acquires information from the ship's sensors and communication systems. Sewaco can be teamed with the company's Tacticos CMS (see below). Sewaco is one of the most ubiquitous naval C4I systems, equipping ships in the German, Dutch, Hellenic, Qatari, Argentine and Belgian navies.
The company's Tacticos system consolidates the control of a ship's weapons, its sensors such as the air-search radar, and electro-optical systems and can be scaled according to the size of the vessel on which it will be deployed. Tacticos has been installed on a range of ships from patrol boats to destroyers. The Royal Navy of Oman has the system fitted on its al-Qahir class corvettes while the Hellenic Navy uses Tacticos on its Roussen class fast attack craft and the Republic of Korea Navy has Tacticos on its Kang-Ding class frigates. Thales also builds the Tavitac system which is able to perform automatic threat assessment by collating information from the vessel's sensors. It can also be linked to the vessel's fire control and countermeasures systems helping to coordinate self-protection.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Nava...d+and+control+stays+out+of+the...-a0184287848

Signaal / Thales Netherlands SEWACO = SEnsoren, WApensystemen en COmmandosystemen (SEnsors, WeAponsystems and COmmandsystems
Signaal / Thales Netherlands Sewaco VIII > SEWACO optimized for submarines
Signaal / Thales Netherlands STACOS > various export derivatives of SEWACO
Thales SEWACO FD > virtual machine on which TACTICOS command and control software runs
Tacticos > command system combining best features of Thomson-CSF Tavitac ad Signaal STACOS systems
https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_pdf.cfm
http://www.thales7seas.com/html_2014/product398.html

China in the past has acquires Tavitac from the French and Italian IPN-10 command data systems and these have influenced Chinese systems. And while there never have been claims China obtained SEWACO from Signaall/Thales, it did manage to acquire e.g. that company's Ramses EW-system, suggesting at least contact.
*Assessing China's Naval Power by **Sarah Kirchberger*
https://books.google.nl/books?id=tb...AQ6AEIPTAI#v=onepage&q=china tacticos&f=false

If SUBTICS has roots in SEVACO VIII, it may well be that China has better insight into this than presumed.


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## Hareeb

Congratulations to Pakistani nation and armed forces especially to engineers, scientists and other logistic member related to this project. Pakistan Paendabad.

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## The SC

Devil Soul said:


> *Pakistan’s Tests New Sub-Launched Nuclear-Capable Cruise Missile. What Now?*
> Pakistan’s successful test of the Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile presents new challenges.
> 
> By Ankit Panda and Vipin Narang
> January 10, 2017
> 
> 
> On Monday, Pakistan announced that it had successfully carried out the first-ever test of its nuclear-capable Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM) from a submerged platform. The test took place at an unspecified location in the Indian Ocean off the Pakistani coast. Maj. Gen. Asif Ghafoor of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Public Relations released limited footage of the test on Twitter that shows the missile’s ejection, launch, and finally striking a target with reasonable accuracy. The Babur-3 SLCM is officially rated for a range of 450 kilometers.
> 
> Pakistan’s Babur-3 SLCM is ultimately designed for use with its _Agosta_ 90bBdiesel-electric submarines, which have reportedly been modified to enable SLCM launches, but remain untested in this regard. Per the Pakistani military’s statement regarding the test, the Babur-3 “is a sea-based variant of Ground Launched Cruise Missile (GLCM) Babur-2, which was successfully tested earlier in December, last year.”
> 
> Critically, the Babur-3 is capable of nuclear payload delivery. Once fully developed and tested on-board a submarine, Pakistan would possess – in theory, at least – a sea-based second strike capability. Pakistan has been working toward this capability for years; in 2012, it set up a Naval Strategic Force Command. Pakistan’s statement notes this with little ambiguity: “Babur-3 SLCM in land-attack mode, is capable of delivering various types of payloads and will provide Pakistan with a Credible Second Strike Capability, augmenting deterrence.” Specifically, the statement noted that the Babur-3 test was a “step towards reinforcing [Pakistan’s] policy of credible minimum deterrence.”
> 
> *Enjoying this article?* Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.
> Pakistan’s inaugural test of the Babur-3 SLCM raises several questions regarding the future of strategic stability between it and India, as both march toward a nuclear triad. For reference, India tested a 3,000 km submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) variant dubbed K-4 (the naval version of the Agni III missile) from an underwater pontoon in March 2014 before testing it from the Arihant submarine last year. Specifically, the consequences of Pakistan acquiring what it perceives as a credible sea-based second strike capability, depending on a range of factors, may both stabilize and destabilize the delicate nuclear balance between South Asia’s two nuclear-armed rivals.
> 
> First, regarding a nuclear SLCM capability, the upside is that if Pakistan believes the Babur-3 will enhance the survivability of its second strike forces, it can afford to have a less forward-leaning posture with its land-based tactical nuclear forces. This is primarily because Pakistani military planners will have less reason to fear the “use it or lose it” dilemma at the start of a conflict with India. So if this is a step toward bolstering Pakistan’s belief in the survivability of its strategic forces, that should contribute to strategic stability and may not require its planning to necessarily prepare for the early use of lower-order nuclear options. Pakistan’s possession of the Babur-3 means that it can be more confident overall that any first Indian strike would not be totally disarming.
> 
> Nevertheless, there are several problems with the above. First, are Pakistani nuclear submarines actually survivable? The belief that submarine-based nuclear forces are almost completely invulnerable against modern anti-submarine warfare techniques is overstated. The United States’ SSBN force might be, but regional power submarines – such as Pakistan’s Agostas – almost certainly are not. They are noisy and are theoretically more easily detectable than U.S. nuclear submarines. The Pakistani _Agosta_-class submarines are diesel-electric and so they are quieter than first-generation nuclear submarines, but these boats are far from completely invulnerable. Pakistan possesses just three _Agosta _90B submarines, the PNS/M _Khalid_, the PNS/M _Saad_, and the PNS/M _Hamza_. (Pakistan may receive eight modified Chinese S20 _Yuan_-class diesel-electric submarines that may be capable of fielding the SLCM.)
> 
> Like India, Pakistan will have to choose which model to manage its limited nuclear submarines. A ‘bastion’ model that keeps them in port until a crisis makes them extremely vulnerable to being sunk as they are flushed out of known locations. A ‘continuous deterrent patrol’ model runs the risk of unauthorized use and accidents in a crowded Indian Ocean, with possibly limited suitable deterrent patrol boxes, while also giving the Indian Navy ample opportunity to track the signature of the submarines to sink them in war.
> 
> Of course, the survivability problem is not one for not only China and India, and certainly Pakistan, but there is increasing evidence that the U.S. was pretty good at tracking even Soviet SSBNs during the Cold War. Whether India can track and kill Agostas remains an unknown, but is theoretically possible. So despite Pakistani perceptions of the Babur-3-equipped _Agosta_-class submarines contributing to its deterrent, the survivability question may prove destabilizing.
> 
> Second, will Pakistan deploy both conventional and nuclear Agostas, and how will adversaries know the difference? Pakistan having its _Agosta_-class submarines carry missiles tipped with both conventional and nuclear warheads is a recipe for a major catastrophe borne of misperception. In a crisis or war, the Indian Navy will try to sink anything it can find. If Indian ASW forces find a Pakistani _Agosta-_class submarine, they may have to operate under the assumption that the submarine in question is carrying nuclear SLCMs in addition to conventional warheads. Discrimination, thus, will be a major problem and portends serious accidents and unintended escalation.
> 
> Finally, does Pakistan have a sufficient and robust enough command and control infrastructure to safely and reliable manage a submarine based nuclear force? This is another area where the Pakistani Navy faces a problem common to many countries in possession of nuclear submarine forces. How exactly will Pakistan manage a submarine-based nuclear force, where the warhead will have to be pre-mated with the Babur-3 SLCM before the submarine leaves port? Does Pakistan have enough confidence in its very low frequency (VLF) and extremely low frequency (ELF) communication with these _Agosta_ submarines that it can afford to put negative controls on the weapons such that they cannot be fired without central inputs? Probably not.
> 
> This leaves us with a dangerous and destabilizing state of affairs where the captain of a Pakistani Navy submarine will likely end up in possession of at least the physical ability to release nuclear weapons when on deterrent patrol. This could lead to serious unauthorized use or accidents. If the submarine captain cannot reach the civilian-led National Command Authority, will he assume it has been destroyed and release nuclear weapons of his own volition? If the answer to this is “yes,” then Pakistan’s sea-based deterrent will be based around a drastically different overarching principle from how it claims to manage its land-based forces, which are kept under central control until deep into a crisis.
> 
> Monday’s test of the Babur-3 should encourage analysts in New Delhi and Islamabad to seriously think through some of the above questions. For both India and Pakistan — but especially Pakistan — a question to mull over seriously is whether the command and control (C2) challenges of maintaining a submarine nuclear force are so great and simply generate more vulnerabilities than the deterrence benefits of a questionably survivable platform in a shooting war. Despite the Pakistani military exhortations that the Babur-3 reinforces its doctrine of “credible minimum deterrence,” pushing ahead with an undersea deterrent without full consideration of the associated costs may ultimately prove deleterious to South Asian strategic stability.
> 
> _Ankit Panda (@nktpnd) is senior editor at _The Diplomat. _Vipin Narang (@NarangVipin) is an associate professor of political science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology._
> -------------------


The article is full of biases and misconceptions, the authors supposedly well educated, won't mention that the Agosta-90B has AIP, since they want to believe it is like their noisy subs, secondly, submarine warfare is a cat and mouse game, they only think of India's naval capabilities, they seem to forget that some Pakistani subs can hunt their nuclear subs, AC, destroyers, frigates and most importantly, their noisy diesel-electric subs with no AIP that have to surface very often (every 4 or so days)..

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## Penguin

CriticalThought said:


> Btw, where did you get that number of 5 SSKs?


Objective: 1 submarine out at sea at all times.

1 sub on station at sea
1 sub underway, sailing from port to station (upcoming relieve)
1 sub underway, sailing from station back to port (relieved)
1 sub in port, getting ready for next tour, crew r&r.
1 sub undergoing maintenance.

It is the same for e.g. carrier, AEW platforms etc.

3 would be a an absolute minimum, 5 an effective minimum, as you need some slack for training at sea and participating in exercises as well. (remember, you are talking strategic deterrent here, something that must be guaranteed to be available at all times, all the time).

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## CriticalThought

Penguin said:


> Objective: 1 submarine out at sea at all times.
> 
> 1 sub on station at sea
> 1 sub underway, sailing from port to station (upcoming relieve)
> 1 sub underway, sailing from station back to port (relieved)
> 1 sub in port, getting ready for next tour, crew r&r.
> 1 sub undergoing maintenance.
> 
> It is the same for e.g. carrier, AEW platforms etc.
> 
> 3 would be a an absolute minimum, 5 an effective minimum, as you need some slack for training at sea and participating in exercises as well. (remember, you are talking strategic deterrent here, something that must be guaranteed to be available at all times, all the time).



So you mean Russia and France who have 1 aircraft carrier each don't have a credible force?

Btw, is that on station/port to station/station to port/getting ready/maintenance logic your own? Can you please provide a technical reference for it? Thanks in advance.

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## Penguin

The SC said:


> The article is full of biases and misconceptions, the authors supposedly well educated , won't mention that the Agosta-90B has AIP, since they want to believe it is like their noisy subs, secondly, submarine warfare is a cat and mouse game, they only think of India's naval capabilities, they seem to forget that some Pakistani subs can hunt their nuclear subs, AC, destroyers, frigates and most importantly, their noisy diesel -electric subs with no AIP that have to surface very often (every 4 or so days)..


There actually is little wrong with this article. The only thing I find fault with is this bit:

"The United States’ SSBN force might be, but regional power submarines – such as Pakistan’s Agostas – almost certainly are not. They are noisy and are theoretically more easily detectable than U.S. nuclear submarines. The Pakistani _Agosta_-class submarines are diesel-electric and so they are quieter than first-generation nuclear submarines, but these boats are far from completely invulnerable."

Modern SSKs (and Agosta 90B certainly still falls in that category) actually are quieter than SSNs when they are crawling about (SSNs nuclear reactors require constant cooling i.e. coolant pumping noise is made constantly). It is during fast, longer distance transit that the situation is reversed, as the SSK will have to use diesels.

AIP doesn 't make SSKs quieter per se (that also depends on what type of AIP is used, e.g. Sterling en gine versus fuel cells). It does make them less easy to detect because there is less need to come close to the surface to snort.

IN has very few nuclear subs: 1 leased SSN and 1 (limited capability) SSBN. While the latter will do its best to stay well clear of any PN vessel, the former won't and will likely be accompanying an IN carrier group going into battle. Whether that SSN will or will not have advantage over and AIP equipped SSK, will depend at least in part on where the encounter will take place (i.e. close to a coast or somewhere in the middle of the Indian Ocean). 

The 'noisy' IN submarines consist of the big (more 'ocean going') Russian Kilo's, which are actually pretty quiet and possibly equipped with ASW-variant of Club missile family (giving engagement range advan tages vis a vis an other sub), and the much smaller (more 'coastal') Type 209/1500s. IN has more 'depth' in the sense that because it is n umerically superior it can sustain ship losses better without quickly ceasing to be an effective naval force.

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## Dalit

The SC said:


> The article is full of biases and misconceptions, the authors supposedly well educated , won't mention that the Agosta-90B has AIP, since they want to believe it is like their noisy subs, secondly, submarine warfare is a cat and mouse game, they only think of India's naval capabilities, they seem to forget that some Pakistani subs can hunt their nuclear subs, AC, destroyers, frigates and most importantly, their noisy diesel -electric subs with no AIP that have to surface very often (every 4 or so days)..



Authors are Ankit Panda and Vipin Narang. Says it all.

It is a bitter pill for our enemies. They are desperately trying to downplay our achievement. They also did it when we became a nuclear power and developed our ballistic missile capabilities. Today, our matured and lethal ballistic and cruise missile capabilities speak volume. I can't wait for the Chinese subs to arrive. I think we will have further matured our SLCM capabilities enormously. Range would have been increased. Other enhancements would have been made. My guess is that until then we will also have tested an SLBM.

*Pakistan is clearly readying its sea launched capabilities before the Chinese subs are inducted.* This sudden test isn't a coincidence. The timing is impeccable.

These are panicking times for the enemy. They have underestimated Pakistan from the word go. Pakistan is flexing its muscles and the enemy is scratching its head.

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## Penguin

CriticalThought said:


> So you mean Russia and France who have 1 aircraft carrier each don't have a credible force?
> 
> Btw, is that on station/port to station/station to port/getting ready/maintenance logic your own? Can you please provide a technical reference for it? Thanks in advance.


It depends on what you want your carrier force and navy to be able to do. As is, neither the French nor the Brits are by themselves in a position to have 1 carrier at a 1 particular spot indefinitely, unlike the USN. That doesn 't mean the Brits or French cannot and do not have an effective carrier strike group that they can send out out area for some time.

Consider that there is a reason why India is aiming for a 3 carriers force (i.e. 1 available for each coast, plus a spare) and China for a 4 carrier force in the near-to-medium term. There also is a reason why the UK is trying very hard to have 2 CV hulls, rather than just 1. And France is known to have some desire for a second PA. (Thus, for a hypothetical purely European force, one would have 3-4 carriers). Con sider USSR built 4 Kiev class and 1 Kuznetsov class while a 2nd was close to completion (now Liaoning) and an even larger carrier Ulyanovsk started building with a 2nd one projected (i.e. 4 'small' VTOL cariers + 4 large[r] STOBAR carriers).

These numbers are not a coincidence. There is a reason the USN attempts to maintain at least 10 carriers (i.e. to be able to deal with two regional contingencies simultaneously.)
http://www.heritage.org/research/re...-regional-contingency-military-for-21-century

*Bottom-Up Review: Analysis of Key Dod Assumptions*
https://books.google.nl/books?id=uS...ge&q=10 carriers "regional conflicts"&f=false

See also the number of AEWC aircraft in various air forces, or the number of SSBN of various navies (esp. those that have them but that were/are not the big players like Russia and US)

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## Saifullah Sani

*Pakistan’s Tests New Sub-Launched Nuclear-Capable Cruise Missile. What Now?*

Pakistan’s successful test of the Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile presents new challenges.
By Ankit Panda and Vipin Narang

On Monday, Pakistan announced that it had successfully carried out the first-ever test of its nuclear-capable Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM) from a submerged platform. The test took place at an unspecified location in the Indian Ocean off the Pakistani coast. Maj. Gen. Asif Ghafoor of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Public Relations released limited footage of the test on Twitter that shows the missile’s ejection, launch, and finally striking a target with reasonable accuracy. The Babur-3 SLCM is officially rated for a range of 450 kilometers.

Pakistan’s Babur-3 SLCM is ultimately designed for use with its _Agosta_ 90bBdiesel-electric submarines, which have reportedly been modified to enable SLCM launches, but remain untested in this regard. Per the Pakistani military’s statement regarding the test, the Babur-3 “is a sea-based variant of Ground Launched Cruise Missile (GLCM) Babur-2, which was successfully tested earlier in December, last year.”

Critically, the Babur-3 is capable of nuclear payload delivery. Once fully developed and tested on-board a submarine, Pakistan would possess – in theory, at least – a sea-based second strike capability. Pakistan has been working toward this capability for years; in 2012, it set up a Naval Strategic Force Command. Pakistan’s statement notes this with little ambiguity: “Babur-3 SLCM in land-attack mode, is capable of delivering various types of payloads and will provide Pakistan with a Credible Second Strike Capability, augmenting deterrence.” Specifically, the statement noted that the Babur-3 test was a “step towards reinforcing [Pakistan’s] policy of credible minimum deterrence.”
Pakistan’s inaugural test of the Babur-3 SLCM raises several questions regarding the future of strategic stability between it and India, as both march toward a nuclear triad. For reference, India tested a 3,000 km submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) variant dubbed K-4 (the naval version of the Agni III missile) from an underwater pontoon in March 2014 before testing it from the Arihant submarine last year. 

Specifically, the consequences of Pakistan acquiring what it perceives as a credible sea-based second strike capability, depending on a range of factors, may both stabilize and destabilize the delicate nuclear balance between South Asia’s two nuclear-armed rivals.
First, regarding a nuclear SLCM capability, the upside is that if Pakistan believes the Babur-3 will enhance the survivability of its second strike forces, it can afford to have a less forward-leaning posture with its land-based tactical nuclear forces. This is primarily because Pakistani military planners will have less reason to fear the “use it or lose it” dilemma at the start of a conflict with India. 

So if this is a step toward bolstering Pakistan’s belief in the survivability of its strategic forces, that should contribute to strategic stability and may not require its planning to necessarily prepare for the early use of lower-order nuclear options. Pakistan’s possession of the Babur-3 means that it can be more confident overall that any first Indian strike would not be totally disarming.

*Nevertheless, there are several problems with the above.* 

*First*, are Pakistani nuclear submarines actually survivable? The belief that submarine-based nuclear forces are almost completely invulnerable against modern anti-submarine warfare techniques is overstated. The United States’ SSBN force might be, but regional power submarines – such as Pakistan’s Agostas – almost certainly are not. They are noisy and are theoretically more easily detectable than U.S. nuclear submarines. The Pakistani _Agosta_-class submarines are diesel-electric and so they are quieter than first-generation nuclear submarines, but these boats are far from completely invulnerable. Pakistan possesses just three _Agosta _90B submarines, the PNS/M _Khalid_, the PNS/M _Saad_, and the PNS/M _Hamza_. (Pakistan may receive eight modified Chinese S20 _Yuan_-class diesel-electric submarines that may be capable of fielding the SLCM.)

Like India, Pakistan will have to choose which model to manage its limited nuclear submarines. A ‘bastion’ model that keeps them in port until a crisis makes them extremely vulnerable to being sunk as they are flushed out of known locations. A ‘continuous deterrent patrol’ model runs the risk of unauthorized use and accidents in a crowded Indian Ocean, with possibly limited suitable deterrent patrol boxes, while also giving the Indian Navy ample opportunity to track the signature of the submarines to sink them in war.

Of course, the survivability problem is not one for not only China and India, and certainly Pakistan, but there is increasing evidence that the U.S. was pretty good at tracking even Soviet SSBNs during the Cold War. *Whether India can track and kill Agostas remains an unknown, but is theoretically possible.* So despite Pakistani perceptions of the Babur-3-equipped _Agosta_-class submarines contributing to its deterrent, the survivability question may prove destabilizing.

*Second, will Pakistan deploy both conventional and nuclear Agostas, and how will adversaries know the difference? *Pakistan having its _Agosta_-class submarines carry missiles tipped with both conventional and nuclear warheads is a recipe for a major catastrophe borne of misperception. In a crisis or war, the Indian Navy will try to sink anything it can find. If Indian ASW forces find a Pakistani _Agosta-_class submarine, they may have to operate under the assumption that the submarine in question is carrying nuclear SLCMs in addition to conventional warheads. Discrimination, thus, will be a major problem and portends serious accidents and unintended escalation.

*Finally, does Pakistan have a sufficient and robust enough command and control infrastructure to safely and reliable manage a submarine based nuclear force? *This is another area where the Pakistani Navy faces a problem common to many countries in possession of nuclear submarine forces. How exactly will Pakistan manage a submarine-based nuclear force, where the warhead will have to be pre-mated with the Babur-3 SLCM before the submarine leaves port? *Does Pakistan have enough confidence in its very low frequency (VLF) and extremely low frequency (ELF) communication with these Agosta submarines that it can afford to put negative controls on the weapons such that they cannot be fired without central inputs? Probably not.*

This leaves us with a dangerous and destabilizing state of affairs where the captain of a Pakistani Navy submarine will likely end up in possession of at least the physical ability to release nuclear weapons when on deterrent patrol. This could lead to serious unauthorized use or accidents. If the submarine captain cannot reach the civilian-led National Command Authority, will he assume it has been destroyed and release nuclear weapons of his own volition? If the answer to this is “yes,” then Pakistan’s sea-based deterrent will be based around a drastically different overarching principle from how it claims to manage its land-based forces, which are kept under central control until deep into a crisis.

Monday’s test of the Babur-3 should encourage analysts in New Delhi and Islamabad to seriously think through some of the above questions. For both India and Pakistan — but especially Pakistan — a question to mull over seriously is whether the command and control (C2) challenges of maintaining a submarine nuclear force are so great and simply generate more vulnerabilities than the deterrence benefits of a questionably survivable platform in a shooting war. Despite the Pakistani military exhortations that the Babur-3 reinforces its doctrine of “credible minimum deterrence,” pushing ahead with an undersea deterrent without full consideration of the associated costs may ultimately prove deleterious to South Asian strategic stability.

http://thediplomat.com/2017/01/paki...ched-nuclear-capable-cruise-missile-what-now/


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## The SC

Penguin said:


> There actually is little wrong with this article. The only thing I find fault with is this bit:
> 
> "The United States’ SSBN force might be, but regional power submarines – such as Pakistan’s Agostas – almost certainly are not. They are noisy and are theoretically more easily detectable than U.S. nuclear submarines. The Pakistani _Agosta_-class submarines are diesel-electric and so they are quieter than first-generation nuclear submarines, but these boats are far from completely invulnerable."
> 
> Modern SSKs (and Agosta 90B certainly still falls in that category) actually are quieter than SSNs when they are crawling about (SSNs nuclear reactors require constant cooling i.e. coolant pumping noise is made constantly). It is during fast, longer distance transit that the situation is reversed, as the SSK will have to use diesels.
> 
> AIP doesn 't make SSKs quieter per se (that also depends on what type of AIP is used, e.g. Sterling en gine versus fuel cells). It does make them less easy to detect because there is less need to come close to the surface to snort.
> 
> IN has very few nuclear subs: 1 leased SSN and 1 (limited capability) SSBN. While the latter will do its best to stay well clear of any PN vessel, the former won't and will likely be accompanying an IN carrier group going into battle. Whether that SSN will or will not have advantage over and AIP equipped SSK, will depend at least in part on where the encounter will take place (i.e. close to a coast or somewhere in the middle of the Indian Ocean).
> 
> The 'noisy' IN submarines consist of the big (more 'ocean going') Russian Kilo's, which are actually pretty quiet and possibly equipped with ASW-variant of Club missile family (giving engagement range advan tages vis a vis an other sub), and the much smaller (more 'coastal') Type 209/1500s. IN has more 'depth' in the sense that because it is n umerically superior it can sustain ship losses better without quickly ceasing to be an effective naval force.


AIP equipped submarines are very stealthy at low speed, i am sure you know that they are silent killers.. the Kilo class or black holes as referred to by Western navies are very good, but they still have to surface frequently, for the rest I agree, since that is common knowledge about nuclear subs vs conventional subs with AIP.. Indian Navy is big but if some of its key warships are hit, it will be hurt, and that is a deterrent in itself, it won't cease to exist, but it will be more disorganized and thus vulnerable to more attacks..
When Pakistan will get its 8 new AIP submarines, India will also have 6 AIP equipped Scopene.. what is your take on the secret information about them that has been released in Australia.. would they be vulnerable or not?


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## Windjammer

A better quality video of the launch and within first five second you can see part of the missile container fall in the water.

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## Penguin

The SC said:


> AIP equipped submarines are very stealthy at low speed, i am sure you know that they are silent killers..


Yeah, that's what I said



The SC said:


> the Kilo class or black holes as referred to by Western navies ae very good, but they still have to surface frequently,


Yeah, that's also what I said.



The SC said:


> Indian Navy is big but if some of its key warships are hit, it will be hurt, and that is a deterrent in itself, it won't cease to exist, but it will be more disorganized and thus vulnerable to more attacks..


The situation for PN is very different. If it looses 1 or more of its large surface combattants early in a conflict, there is little left to fight with, except submarines. So, they are essential and also it is essential that they cannot perform only nuclear missions, even if that dual- or plural role makes them more likely to be targeted continuously by IN.



The SC said:


> When Pakistan will get its 8 new AIP submarines, India will also have 6 AIP equipped Scopene.. what is your take on the secret information about them that has been released in Australia.. would they be vulnerable or not?


India will have more than just 6 Scorpenes. One can not ignore other boats. THe information makes you better ab le to understand the boats, but they still need to be found and killed in real life. And that still won't be easy. All this assuming that the information obtained remains relevant i.e. that the opponent does not do anything to minimize any disadvantages that may have resulted.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Windjammer said:


> A better quality video of the launch and within first five second you can see part of the missile container fall in the water.


Seeing definitely isn't believing!!! Nothing's gonna work except disbelief!!!!

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## Taimoor Khan

Sloth 22 said:


> Doesn't proof anything .
> 
> About 2nd strike.
> Untill atleast 3 SSBNs are ready , it won't be 100%.



Its not about the numbers, its not even functional as far as India is concerned. With Babur 3 test, the bar has been raised for India.

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## Windjammer

HAKIKAT said:


> Seeing definitely isn't believing!!! Nothing's gonna work except disbelief!!!!



On these occasions, i often recall the example of THE Cow grazing in the jungle, suddenly a Tiger appears and the desperate Cow shuts it's eyes hoping the Tiger wouldn't see her either.

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## fenku

Windjammer said:


> A better quality video of the launch and within first five second you can see part of the missile container fall in the water.



Wow from the video i can see Pakistan got the only capability to make missile move diagonally from the start without resurfacing the submarine....rather first heading straight and then revert to actual path....


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## Windjammer

fenku said:


> Wow from the video i can see Pakistan got the only capability to make missile move diagonally from the start without resurfacing the submarine....rather first heading straight and then revert to actual path....


If certain people had a brain they would be indeed dangerous.
As far as i know, the launch tubes in the Agosta subs don't point skywards.

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## Srinivas

The claim seems is fake


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818467434885771268

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## Arsala.nKhan

Great ! Pakistan Zindabad !!!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Windjammer said:


> *Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor* ‏@OfficialDGISPR  6h6 hours ago
> #Pakistan successfully test fired first Submarine launched Cruise Missile Babur-3. Rg 450 Km. #COAS congrats Nation and the team involved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ahmed Quraishi*‏@AQpk
> #Pakistan has apparently crossed a major military/strategic barrier today, acquired new capability to enhance self-defense, ensure peace.
> 
> Babur3 in land-attack mode is capable of dlvrng various types of payloads,wil provide Pak wth Credible 2nd Strike Capability @OfficialDGISPR



Meanwhile the missile has caused a massive *MOD EDIT *heart attack across the border:


*Pakistan's Babur Missile Test Claim May Be Fake, Navy Sources Tell NDTV*
NEW DELHI: A day after Pakistan tweeted a video of what it claimed was the test launch of its Babur missile, claiming a giant leap in its naval nuclear programme, top sources have said that the video may be fudged.

The video showed the missile exiting the water after apparently being launched from a submarine, cruising towards and then striking its target.

Oddly, two missiles, not one, are seen in the video; one missile that emerges from the water is grey and another shown in a subsequent shot is orange.




*(CLEAR PIC OF LAUNCH-- indian navy cant monitor for shyt)*






Grey missile..


Sources in the* Indian Navy, which monitors such activity, have confirmed to NDTV that there was no missile test off the coast of Pakistan* yesterday.

The video may have older footage, they say.


While Pakistan claimed launching the missile from a submarine yesterday, the Navy is convinced the test shown in the video is from a submerged floating launch test platform which measures various parameters of the missile once it's launched underwater. Integration of the missile with Pakistan fleet of Agosta 90B submarine is unlikely to have taken place.

On Monday, Pakistan claimed its "first successful test of the Babur missile" implying that it has completed its nuclear triad since it already has land-based ballistic missiles as well as tactical nuclear bombs that it can drop from its fighter aircraft.

The Babur has a range of at least 450 km.

Pakistan's military media wing was quoted by Reuters as saying: "Pakistan eyes this hallmark development as a step towards reinforcing the policy of credible minimum deterrence."

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## Salza

LMAO Indian butt hurting is at astronomical level since yesterday  

As usual Toilet News of India has this news on their main page :

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-some-indian-experts/articleshow/56441299.cms

LOL apparently Indians are at state of shock so as their Navy after the test. They simply cannot believe that we have this capability. Obviously these Indians are feeling rightly insecure which they really should . Just depicts how important capability we have now in our arsenal.

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## The Eagle

Khafee said:


> Thank You for the tag.
> 
> The last time I said something not in the public domain, (link below) bird brains and their supporters (including title holders) went nuts, Mods sat on the sidelines and watched the world go by. So in future, I will not comment on things that are not there in the public domain.
> 
> Have a nice Day!
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...-2-cruise-missile.466682/page-12#post-9010214



Nah, Not at all.... a fighter and retreat, impossible so how come you say that Sir. No need to feel like that.... 

I know what you and @Rashid Mahmood said in other thread as well and there are many other senior members, title holders that have a good view of things. Rest about Mods, I think the post of Rashid Sir is good enough like they (mods) have their hands full with many things so sometimes, the show has to continue with two types as the one will be moving ahead with own observations and the other will share being into system and having insight then there are readers those who understand the deep message or takes observations as credible but in the end, both elements plays the role of education and information. This is how the world theater works by participation of everyone. 

Keep a smile on face while reading things that you know very well but couldn't comment due to many reasons and still, you can throw something that few will pick and will smile in return. You know what I mean. The trolls and uneducated lot will keep doing the same thing being habitual so being professional and senior, I must say, no need to pay attention as Mods are treating them they way they deserve however, the flood slows down the action process.

There was a reason to tag you and Rashid Sir as well.

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## faaiq Sheikh

Acchi baat ha sab test pooray hogay abb hum ready hein

Hamaray jawano mubaruk ho tumko ye kamyabi


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## graphican

*This is interesting;*

Indians have seen the video footage of Babur-III test and are still skeptical weather Pakistan conducted a missile test or not.
On the other hand, Indians have ZERO evidence of their SURGICAL BULL$HIT and believe India conducted a surgical strike.
And the best part is that these morons think they talk sense.

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## Hassan Guy

The Indians have clearly taken the L after they found out Pakistan evened out the the strategic nuclear playing field for a FRACTION of the cost. 

Babur joining the sea is just the start, Shaheen is next.

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## Hassan Guy

smok123 said:


> Looks like three different videos joined together
> 
> one is the launch which appears from under the water ,
> 
> Then red color missile in mid flight.
> 
> Now notice the change in the size of missile (in 3rd frame ), , it actually looked like attack helicopter shooting at the target. Pakistanis please explain this change of color and physical character of missile.
> 
> View attachment 367397

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## Bratva

smok123 said:


> Looks like three different videos joined together
> 
> one is the launch which appears from under the water ,
> 
> Then red color missile in mid flight.
> 
> Now notice the change in the size of missile (in 3rd frame ), , it actually looked like attack helicopter shooting at the target. Pakistanis please explain this change of color and physical character of missile.
> 
> View attachment 367397




GO back 10 pages and start reading. We have proved why missiles reflecting two colors !

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## Areesh

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Meanwhile the missile has caused a massive *MOD EDIT *heart attack across the border:
> 
> 
> *Pakistan's Babur Missile Test Claim May Be Fake, Navy Sources Tell NDTV*
> NEW DELHI: A day after Pakistan tweeted a video of what it claimed was the test launch of its Babur missile, claiming a giant leap in its naval nuclear programme, top sources have said that the video may be fudged.
> 
> The video showed the missile exiting the water after apparently being launched from a submarine, cruising towards and then striking its target.
> 
> Oddly, two missiles, not one, are seen in the video; one missile that emerges from the water is grey and another shown in a subsequent shot is orange.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLEAR PIC OF LAUNCH-- indian navy cant monitor for shyt)*
> View attachment 367386
> 
> 
> Grey missile..
> 
> 
> Sources in the* Indian Navy, which monitors such activity, have confirmed to NDTV that there was no missile test off the coast of Pakistan* yesterday.
> 
> The video may have older footage, they say.
> 
> 
> While Pakistan claimed launching the missile from a submarine yesterday, the Navy is convinced the test shown in the video is from a submerged floating launch test platform which measures various parameters of the missile once it's launched underwater. Integration of the missile with Pakistan fleet of Agosta 90B submarine is unlikely to have taken place.
> 
> On Monday, Pakistan claimed its "first successful test of the Babur missile" implying that it has completed its nuclear triad since it already has land-based ballistic missiles as well as tactical nuclear bombs that it can drop from its fighter aircraft.
> 
> The Babur has a range of at least 450 km.
> 
> Pakistan's military media wing was quoted by Reuters as saying: "Pakistan eyes this hallmark development as a step towards reinforcing the policy of credible minimum deterrence."



That explains the incompetence of Indian navy that destroyed brand new INS Betwa.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

smok123 said:


> Looks like three different videos joined together
> 
> one is the launch which appears from under the water ,
> 
> Then red color missile in mid flight.
> 
> Now notice the change in the size of missile (in 3rd frame ), , it actually looked like attack helicopter shooting at the target. Pakistanis please explain this change of color and physical character of missile.
> 
> View attachment 367397







Magic

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## Sloth 22

Taimoor Khan said:


> Its not about the numbers, its not even functional as far as India is concerned. With Babur 3 test, the bar has been raised for India.



For Sea Based deterrence , numbers do matter.Noticed that all the nations with sea based nukes have a minimum of 4 SSBNs ? 

This ensures that at any given time we have 1 SSBN ready. 

@Penguin can also help here.


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## IceCold

The only thing Indian government can do now is to keep telling their dumb populace that there was test at all and Pakistan is faking everything. And the gullible people will accept it as the divine truth.

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## cabatli_53

Devil Soul said:


> *Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor* ‏@OfficialDGISPR  5m5 minutes ago
> #Pakistan successfully test fired first Submarine launched Cruise Missile Babur-3. Rg 450 Km. #COAS congrats Nation and the team involved.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818427713627295745




I have watched same video many times. It makes me feel really proud because such a capability is the one big boys are being proud of in that time of the world. Almost many Europen nations excluding a few of them lacks sub-launched long range missile strike capability. I suppose Pakistan is among first Muslim nation which introduced sub launching and precision sttriking ability of own developed missile with a deep self confidence. I think Turkey will also follow those steps with the project codded as Gezgin and sub-Atmaca ssm. 

I think Turkish-Pakistani Agosta submarine modernization project aims to convert existing submarine forces into a mysterious missile/electronic strike strategic submarines that codes, software secrets and future missile integrations are only known by brother states, Even if the original producer is France.

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## Windjammer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Meanwhile the missile has caused a massive *MOD EDIT *heart attack across the border:
> 
> 
> *Pakistan's Babur Missile Test Claim May Be Fake, Navy Sources Tell NDTV*
> NEW DELHI: A day after Pakistan tweeted a video of what it claimed was the test launch of its Babur missile, claiming a giant leap in its naval nuclear programme, top sources have said that the video may be fudged.
> 
> The video showed the missile exiting the water after apparently being launched from a submarine, cruising towards and then striking its target.
> 
> Oddly, two missiles, not one, are seen in the video; one missile that emerges from the water is grey and another shown in a subsequent shot is orange.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLEAR PIC OF LAUNCH-- indian navy cant monitor for shyt)*
> View attachment 367386
> 
> 
> Grey missile..
> 
> 
> Sources in the* Indian Navy, which monitors such activity, have confirmed to NDTV that there was no missile test off the coast of Pakistan* yesterday.
> 
> The video may have older footage, they say.
> 
> 
> While Pakistan claimed launching the missile from a submarine yesterday, the Navy is convinced the test shown in the video is from a submerged floating launch test platform which measures various parameters of the missile once it's launched underwater. Integration of the missile with Pakistan fleet of Agosta 90B submarine is unlikely to have taken place.
> 
> On Monday, Pakistan claimed its "first successful test of the Babur missile" implying that it has completed its nuclear triad since it already has land-based ballistic missiles as well as tactical nuclear bombs that it can drop from its fighter aircraft.
> 
> The Babur has a range of at least 450 km.
> 
> Pakistan's military media wing was quoted by Reuters as saying: "Pakistan eyes this hallmark development as a step towards reinforcing the policy of credible minimum deterrence."



One can clearly see the pattern and the mentality of the Indians. 
Surgical strikes claims = aggression against Pakistan.....we have the video but not a thread of evidence is presented but hey for Indians it's the gospel truth.
Pakistan tests missile = no aggression involved....claims backed by solid evidence in the shape of images and footage....but hey the Indians have a problem with their vision, they are experiencing both grey and double vision... like some one turned giddy by repeated blows to the head..... and kudos to the Indian media, it surely knows how to nurture a billion Ostriches.

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## The Deterrent

I honestly considered twitter user raj47 as considerably good satellite imagery expert. I have been surprised by his ability to accurately identify special weapons related facilities (not all but most).
But after yesterday he has completely gone bonkers.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818467434885771268Here he compares two screen grabs from obviously cropped, separate clips from the same flight, and somehow imagines that it was one continuous shot, and then calculates the speed. Logic?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818583784383651840And here, again he presents a screen grab showing a "canister", whereas if the whole video is watched, it is observed that its actually two different launch scenes, the merger of which he is showing. In effect, the missile from the first scene is what he is terming as a canister here.
(Take note that a canister was of course involved, more accurately called a capsule, but it was ejected way lower, as a splash can be seen near the exit point over water).

Lastly for those questioning the color, Babur has always had a red/white stripes paint scheme for testing, enabling easy visual detection and subsequent tracking (probably for escorting fighter pilots). Its just the bad video quality, something we have always criticized. More tests will follow suit, and soon we'll have better launch videos for the public.

Edit: I don't know what kind of fits these morons will throw after we unveil the MIRVed system. Let me write before-hand some things that they will say:
1. Its just an SLV.
2. It just jettisons multiple warheads, they are not guided because pakis don't have any knowledge of independent trajectory insertions.
3. It looks so fragile, its not mobile.
4. The range is not enough for independent trajectory insertions.
5. China gifted it to Pakistan.
and so on.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

smok123 said:


> Looks like three different videos joined together
> 
> one is the launch which appears from under the water ,
> 
> Then red color missile in mid flight.
> 
> Now notice the change in the size of missile (in 3rd frame ), , it actually looked like attack helicopter shooting at the target. Pakistanis please explain this change of color and physical character of missile.
> 
> View attachment 367397


how did they intercept Babur I,Babur II and RAAD ALCM launches


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## LeGenD

BHarwana said:


> lol USA was trying to monitor Pakistani missile launch and to do so as the RADAR was not detecting they pushed near and near. Iran and USA got shots fired.


Any proof of your claim?


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## graphican

smok123 said:


> Looks like three different videos joined together
> 
> one is the launch which appears from under the water ,
> 
> Then red color missile in mid flight.
> 
> Now notice the change in the size of missile (in 3rd frame ), , it actually looked like attack helicopter shooting at the target. Pakistanis please explain this change of color and physical character of missile.
> 
> View attachment 367397




You can lay your doubts to rest. First clear image of launching missile is now available, officially released by ISPR. 
I am attaching third clip's enlarged snapshot which you claim was "red". In the zoomed view, you can see it has white strip as the first image does. 
Clear image of launch.






Image from the second clip, taken at 0:16.

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## SHAH820

Srinivas said:


> The claim seems is fake
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818467434885771268



are you drunk or some thing you posted a pic and saying missile is moving with a speed of 15 km/s this video is not shot by a whole rather it was shot in pieces the missile path is known by the army when missile was launch it was filmed then when the missile reached a specific location it was filmed their and when the missile hit the target it was filmed there whole missile path was not filmed cause it will be hours long video


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## Taimoor Khan

Sloth 22 said:


> For Sea Based deterrence , numbers do matter.Noticed that all the nations with sea based nukes have a minimum of 4 SSBNs ?
> 
> This ensures that at any given time we have 1 SSBN ready.
> 
> @Penguin can also help here.



You can have 50s of those SSBN, BUT if you havent demonstrated a single of them to be able to fire SLCM or SLBM successfully, that means the status of your second strike capability is questionable.


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## The Deterrent

smok123 said:


> Number of MCTR Technologies produced by the following nations out of total 94 technologies:
> 
> India : 81
> China : 92
> Iran: 21
> Israel: 74
> Turkey: 4
> USA:94
> UK:94
> Russia:94
> France: 93
> Japan: 93
> Saudi Arabia:0
> North Korea:25
> South Africa : 34
> Pakistan : 39
> South Korea: 42
> Vietnam: 0
> 
> 
> source = official MCTR website
> 
> now India is a member of MCTR so they will get rest of the 13 technologies too .
> 
> you can compare south Africa , Korea & Pakistan .................but comparison of India & Pakistan is wrong .



Number of MTCR technologies stopping Pakistan from sending India back into stone-age in case of a (nuclear) war 
= 0.
Savvy?

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## wasileo80

Osiris said:


> Was it, If so then why don't any of the 5 major nuclear powers, use torpedo lunched cruise missiles as their primary second strike armament ?


Because for this they has to go near to enemy shores and this would be suicidal because those five nations have very advance military hardware to detect targets near to their shores. So for credible second strike capability those nations developed SSN for attck and SSBN having ICBM so that they can safely hit the enemy while they are thousands of miles away from their boundries. Got it or not. But this is not the case in India Pakistan scenario.


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## CriticalThought

Penguin said:


> It depends on what you want your carrier force and navy to be able to do. As is, neither the French nor the Brits are by themselves in a position to have 1 carrier at a 1 particular spot indefinitely, unlike the USN. That doesn 't mean the Brits or French cannot and do not have an effective carrier strike group that they can send out out area for some time.
> 
> Consider that there is a reason why India is aiming for a 3 carriers force (i.e. 1 available for each coast, plus a spare) and China for a 4 carrier force in the near-to-medium term. There also is a reason why the UK is trying very hard to have 2 CV hulls, rather than just 1. And France is known to have some desire for a second PA. (Thus, for a hypothetical purely European force, one would have 3-4 carriers). Con sider USSR built 4 Kiev class and 1 Kuznetsov class while a 2nd was close to completion (now Liaoning) and an even larger carrier Ulyanovsk started building with a 2nd one projected (i.e. 4 'small' VTOL cariers + 4 large[r] STOBAR carriers).
> 
> These numbers are not a coincidence. There is a reason the USN attempts to maintain at least 10 carriers (i.e. to be able to deal with two regional contingencies simultaneously.)
> http://www.heritage.org/research/re...-regional-contingency-military-for-21-century
> 
> *Bottom-Up Review: Analysis of Key Dod Assumptions*
> https://books.google.nl/books?id=uScLAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=10+carriers+"regional+conflicts"&source=bl&ots=lB4kVsxair&sig=Sa-eX9tku1f4elwGBztGEO9vD5o&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQ4v3trLfRAhUB1xoKHaCdCikQ6AEIJTAB#v=onepage&q=10 carriers "regional conflicts"&f=false
> 
> See also the number of AEWC aircraft in various air forces, or the number of SSBN of various navies (esp. those that have them but that were/are not the big players like Russia and US)



Large numbers to handle multiple conflicts and mitigate risks make sense. But as you have yourself agreed, it doesn't mean a single asset wouldn't provide credible offence capability.


----------



## saiyan0321

The Deterrent said:


> I honestly considered twitter user raj47 as considerably good satellite imagery expert. I have been surprised by his ability to accurately identify special weapons related facilities (not all but most).
> But after yesterday he has completely gone bonkers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818467434885771268Here he compares two screen grabs from obviously cropped, separate clips from the same flight, and somehow imagines that it was one continuous shot, and then calculates the speed. Logic?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818583784383651840And here, again he presents a screen grab showing a "canister", whereas if the whole video is watched, it is observed that its actually two different launch scenes, the merger of which he is showing. In effect, the missile from the first scene is what he is terming as a canister here.
> (Take note that a canister was of course involved, more accurately called a capsule, but it was ejected way lower, as a splash can be seen near the exit point over water).
> 
> Lastly for those questioning the color, Babur has always had a red/white stripes paint scheme for testing, enabling easy visual detection and subsequent tracking (probably for escorting fighter pilots). Its just the bad video quality, something we have always criticized. More tests will follow suit, and soon we'll have better launch videos for the public.
> 
> Edit: I don't know what kind of fits these morons will throw after we unveil the MIRVed system. Let me write before-hand some things that they will say:
> 1. Its just an SLV.
> 2. It just jettisons multiple warheads, they are not guided because pakis don't have any knowledge of independent trajectory insertions.
> 3. It looks so fragile, its not mobile.
> 4. The range is not enough for independent trajectory insertions.
> 5. China gifted it to Pakistan.
> and so on.




An amazing post by deterrent but the question is why are we wasting our time telling them this? If they want to believe so be it. Their only source was raj and you destroyed him. You and I both know that the Indian high command will take it very seriously and will not be sucked into denial that Indian trolls have shown. They will try to counter this development. Quite frankly they don't deserve answers. We are not desperate nor in need to make them believe that we have SLCM technology and second and third strike capability. 

We should be celebrating. Not here convincing delusional denialists.

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## RoadRunner401

Pakistan test-fires first nuclear-capable submarine-launched cruise missile

Pakistan has successfully test-fired its first nuclear-capable submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM), according to a 9 January statement by Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), the media wing of the Pakistani military.

Named Babur-3, the SLCM was fired to a range of 450 km from an underwater, mobile platform at an undisclosed location in the Indian Ocean, according to the statement, adding that the missile "hit its target with precise accuracy". The new head of ISPR, Major General Asif Ghafoor, posted a video of the test launch on his Twitter account.

The Babur-3 is a sea-based variant of the Babur-2 ground-launched cruise missile, which was successfully tested in December 2016, according to ISPR. Also known as Haft 7, the missile is believed to have a maximum range of 700 km, according to _IHS Jane's Weapons: Strategic_.

"The Babur-3 incorporates state-of-the-art technologies, including underwater controlled propulsion and advanced guidance and navigation features, duly augmented by global navigation, terrain and scene-matching systems," said ISPR.

The missile reportedly features terrain-hugging and sea-skimming flight capabilities to evade hostile radars and air defences, in addition to stealth technologies.

In land-attack mode the Babur-3 SLCM is capable of delivering various types of payloads and provides Pakistan with a "credible second strike capability", augmenting deterrence, said ISPR.

"While the pursuit and now the successful attainment of a second strike capability by Pakistan represents a major scientific milestone, it is [a] manifestation of the strategy of measured response to nuclear strategies and postures being adopted in Pakistan's neighbourhood," the statement said, adding that "Pakistan eyes this hallmark development as a step towards reinforcing [a] policy of credible minimum deterrence"

http://www.janes.com/article/66793/...ear-capable-submarine-launched-cruise-missile


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## Windjammer

smok123 said:


> pakistaan will get first Chinese Submarine in 2022 .....................You can not use Chinese or Pakistani missiles in
> Agosta-class submarines without source codes & permission provided by France .
> 
> that means even if You have SLCM You can not use it before 2022 .



Welcome back with your new ID.
If Pakistan didn't have the capability, wonder why the world media is giving this test so much coverage, on the contrary, do recall how the same sources were able to burst North Korean and other claims.
BTW, didn't US also once claimed curtailing the F-16s from being nuclear delivery capable.....there's a reason why this version of Babur has been reduced from the original concept.

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## Taimoor Khan

smok123 said:


> K-4 SLBM launch>>
> View attachment 367406



I have asked for the actual video of the missile fired from the actual sub, NOT pontoon. I havent found it on net, nor any Indian posted here yet. You got one? please share. 

In absence of any concrete evidence, the operational status of Indian second strike capability is very questionable. With now Pakistan not only demonstrating but striking with precision, bar has been raised for India.

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## Khanate

smok123 said:


> Number of MCTR Technologies produced by the following nations out of total 94 technologies:
> 
> India : 81
> China : 92
> Iran: 21
> Israel: 74
> Turkey: 4
> USA:94
> UK:94
> Russia:94
> France: 93
> Japan: 93
> Saudi Arabia:0
> North Korea:25
> South Africa : 34
> Pakistan : 39
> South Korea: 42
> Vietnam: 0
> 
> 
> source = official MCTR website
> 
> now India is a member of MCTR so they will get rest of the 13 technologies too .
> 
> you can compare south Africa , Korea & Pakistan .................but comparison of India & Pakistan is wrong .




I don't see Argentina on that list. 



smok123 said:


> K-4 SLBM launch>>
> View attachment 367406








You obviously feel very ashamed of being Indian.

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## Mrc

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sources in the* Indian Navy, which monitors such activity, have confirmed to NDTV that there was no missile test off the coast of Pakistan* yesterday.




That might be a compliment to the stealth capabilities of the missile

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## monitor

*Pakistan’s Tests New Sub-Launched Nuclear-Capable Cruise Missile. What Now?*
Pakistan’s successful test of the Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile presents new challenges.

By Ankit Panda and Vipin Narang
January 10, 2017


On Monday, Pakistan announced that it had successfully carried out the first-ever test of its nuclear-capable Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM) from a submerged platform. The test took place at an unspecified location in the Indian Ocean off the Pakistani coast. Maj. Gen. Asif Ghafoor of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Public Relations released limited footage of the test on Twitter that shows the missile’s ejection, launch, and finally striking a target with reasonable accuracy. The Babur-3 SLCM is officially rated for a range of 450 kilometers.

Pakistan’s Babur-3 SLCM is ultimately designed for use with its _Agosta_ 90bBdiesel-electric submarines, which have reportedly been modified to enable SLCM launches, but remain untested in this regard. Per the Pakistani military’s statement regarding the test, the Babur-3 “is a sea-based variant of Ground Launched Cruise Missile (GLCM) Babur-2, which was successfully tested earlier in December, last year.”

Critically, the Babur-3 is capable of nuclear payload delivery. Once fully developed and tested on-board a submarine, Pakistan would possess – in theory, at least – a sea-based second strike capability. Pakistan has been working toward this capability for years; in 2012, it set up a Naval Strategic Force Command. Pakistan’s statement notes this with little ambiguity: “Babur-3 SLCM in land-attack mode, is capable of delivering various types of payloads and will provide Pakistan with a Credible Second Strike Capability, augmenting deterrence.” Specifically, the statement noted that the Babur-3 test was a “step towards reinforcing [Pakistan’s] policy of credible minimum deterrence.”

Pakistan’s inaugural test of the Babur-3 SLCM raises several questions regarding the future of strategic stability between it and India, as both march toward a nuclear triad. For reference, India tested a 3,000 km submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) variant dubbed K-4 (the naval version of the Agni III missile) from an underwater pontoon in March 2014 before testing it from the Arihant submarine last year. Specifically, the consequences of Pakistan acquiring what it perceives as a credible sea-based second strike capability, depending on a range of factors, may both stabilize and destabilize the delicate nuclear balance between South Asia’s two nuclear-armed rivals.

First, regarding a nuclear SLCM capability, the upside is that if Pakistan believes the Babur-3 will enhance the survivability of its second strike forces, it can afford to have a less forward-leaning posture with its land-based tactical nuclear forces. This is primarily because Pakistani military planners will have less reason to fear the “use it or lose it” dilemma at the start of a conflict with India. So if this is a step toward bolstering Pakistan’s belief in the survivability of its strategic forces, that should contribute to strategic stability and may not require its planning to necessarily prepare for the early use of lower-order nuclear options. Pakistan’s possession of the Babur-3 means that it can be more confident overall that any first Indian strike would not be totally disarming.

Nevertheless, there are several problems with the above. First, are Pakistani nuclear submarines actually survivable? The belief that submarine-based nuclear forces are almost completely invulnerable against modern anti-submarine warfare techniques is overstated. The United States’ SSBN force might be, but regional power submarines – such as Pakistan’s Agostas – almost certainly are not. They are noisy and are theoretically more easily detectable than U.S. nuclear submarines. The Pakistani _Agosta_-class submarines are diesel-electric and so they are quieter than first-generation nuclear submarines, but these boats are far from completely invulnerable. Pakistan possesses just three _Agosta _90B submarines, the PNS/M _Khalid_, the PNS/M _Saad_, and the PNS/M _Hamza_. (Pakistan may receive eight modified Chinese S20 _Yuan_-class diesel-electric submarines that may be capable of fielding the SLCM.)

Like India, Pakistan will have to choose which model to manage its limited nuclear submarines. A ‘bastion’ model that keeps them in port until a crisis makes them extremely vulnerable to being sunk as they are flushed out of known locations. A ‘continuous deterrent patrol’ model runs the risk of unauthorized use and accidents in a crowded Indian Ocean, with possibly limited suitable deterrent patrol boxes, while also giving the Indian Navy ample opportunity to track the signature of the submarines to sink them in war.

Of course, the survivability problem is not one for not only China and India, and certainly Pakistan, but there is increasing evidence that the U.S. was pretty good at tracking even Soviet SSBNs during the Cold War. Whether India can track and kill Agostas remains an unknown, but is theoretically possible. So despite Pakistani perceptions of the Babur-3-equipped _Agosta_-class submarines contributing to its deterrent, the survivability question may prove destabilizing.

Second, will Pakistan deploy both conventional and nuclear Agostas, and how will adversaries know the difference? Pakistan having its _Agosta_-class submarines carry missiles tipped with both conventional and nuclear warheads is a recipe for a major catastrophe borne of misperception. In a crisis or war, the Indian Navy will try to sink anything it can find. If Indian ASW forces find a Pakistani _Agosta-_class submarine, they may have to operate under the assumption that the submarine in question is carrying nuclear SLCMs in addition to conventional warheads. Discrimination, thus, will be a major problem and portends serious accidents and unintended escalation.

Finally, does Pakistan have a sufficient and robust enough command and control infrastructure to safely and reliable manage a submarine based nuclear force? This is another area where the Pakistani Navy faces a problem common to many countries in possession of nuclear submarine forces. How exactly will Pakistan manage a submarine-based nuclear force, where the warhead will have to be pre-mated with the Babur-3 SLCM before the submarine leaves port? Does Pakistan have enough confidence in its very low frequency (VLF) and extremely low frequency (ELF) communication with these _Agosta_ submarines that it can afford to put negative controls on the weapons such that they cannot be fired without central inputs? Probably not.

This leaves us with a dangerous and destabilizing state of affairs where the captain of a Pakistani Navy submarine will likely end up in possession of at least the physical ability to release nuclear weapons when on deterrent patrol. This could lead to serious unauthorized use or accidents. If the submarine captain cannot reach the civilian-led National Command Authority, will he assume it has been destroyed and release nuclear weapons of his own volition? If the answer to this is “yes,” then Pakistan’s sea-based deterrent will be based around a drastically different overarching principle from how it claims to manage its land-based forces, which are kept under central control until deep into a crisis.

Monday’s test of the Babur-3 should encourage analysts in New Delhi and Islamabad to seriously think through some of the above questions. For both India and Pakistan — but especially Pakistan — a question to mull over seriously is whether the command and control (C2) challenges of maintaining a submarine nuclear force are so great and simply generate more vulnerabilities than the deterrence benefits of a questionably survivable platform in a shooting war. Despite the Pakistani military exhortations that the Babur-3 reinforces its doctrine of “credible minimum deterrence,” pushing ahead with an undersea deterrent without full consideration of the associated costs may ultimately prove deleterious to South Asian strategic stability.

_Ankit Panda (@nktpnd) is senior editor at _The Diplomat. _Vipin Narang (@NarangVipin) is an associate professor of political science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology._


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## RedStar86

I just read all 70 pages! this is spectacular, time to celebrate. just as I said before, sanctions are a joke. 
Keep the good job, thank you spd!

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## Kuwaiti Girl

The Deterrent said:


> Here he compares two screen grabs from obviously cropped, separate clips from the same flight, and somehow imagines that it was one continuous shot, and then calculates the speed. Logic?


I was thinking the same thing. It's definitely not a continuous shot. Perhaps the twitter user got too excited and forgot to use his common sense lol. :-/ >_<

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## Bhupendra Singh_Cyan

Peaceful Civilian said:


> This is for minimum deterrence policy. I too wish we both don't use any missile. Peace


Don't worry we don't have any ambitious plans to capture Pakistan. Any sane person will not argue in this atleast

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## Hassan Guy

The current weapons range cannot be increased by a very significant amount, don't expect the range to double or go to 1000-1500km.
(Not even land based babur's have been able to reach this range.)

The Babur is for taking out critical military assets along the coast of india with a tactical nuclear warhead.
(1 Dwarka like raid with 1 Babur-3.)

SLBM's will be needed for launching WMD's deep into India's metropolitan areas.


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## The Deterrent

smok123 said:


> your Missiles depends on American navigation systems ..that means You can not use them without permission of USA .
> 
> 
> You can use Chinese navigation systems in the future but then You will be depended on China's permission .
> 
> 
> This is why Pakistaan did not use nukes even after loosing 3 months long Kargil war .
> 
> 
> on the other hand India has it's own navigation system .


You are too stupid to be explained how combined and augmented GNSS works.

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## SHAH820

smok123 said:


> .can You use Chinese Air to Air missiles on F-16 ??
> 
> You can use Gravity depended nukes on F-16 after modifications but other capabilities are not possible .
> 
> in submarines this will be impossible until You change french subsystems with Chinese .




are you an idiot do you even know what is technology transfer is and why turkey upgrade Pakistan agosta subs when they havent take permission from france
second thing in babur navigation system of china is used which is also brought by technology transfer

you people just keep cry on failed nhirbhay missile

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## Saba Ali Malik

*Tested Babur 3 Cruise Missile *


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## AMG_12

India tests missile, probably explodes midway or flight terminated, Indians start cheerleading that important milestones were achieved. Pakistan tests a missile that successfully hit target, BC Indians go bonkers claiming CGI

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## Karl

This is simply wrong. If you look at the development of South Korea's Hyunmoo series of cruise missiles,

Hyunmoo-3A - 500 km
Hyunmoo-3B - 1,000 km
Hyunmoo-3C - 1,500 km

They're not so different to to the Babur series. I would expect the new S20 submarines to be equipped with the Babur 3 MK 2 version and be capable of fielding the MK 3. 





Hassan Guy said:


> The current weapons range cannot be increased by a very significant amount, don't expect the range to double or go to 1000-1500km.
> (Not even land based babur's have been able to reach this range.)
> 
> The Babur is for taking out critical military assets along the coast of india with a tactical nuclear warhead.
> (1 Dwarka like raid with 1 Babur-3.)
> 
> SLBM's will be needed for launching WMD's deep into India's metropolitan areas.


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## Windjammer

smok123 said:


> .can You use Chinese Air to Air missiles on F-16 ??


we done something even better, mated American weapons on Chinese systems.


> You can use Gravity depended nukes on F-16 after modifications but other capabilities are not possible .(there is no credible evidence to show Your ability )


Dumb nukes on F-16s, how dumb can you be. !!!


> in submarines this will be impossible until You change all the french subsystems with Chinese .


Then you can tell folks back in India, they have nothing to worry about until 2022.
But if war breaks out before that, just imagine all the money you guys will save on all the firewood, either way it's a win win situation for Indians.

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## Karl

Is the MIRVed system based on the Shaheen-3 @TheDeterrent? Or a larger Dia missile/SLV like China's Kuaizhou?




The Deterrent said:


> I honestly considered twitter user raj47 as considerably good satellite imagery expert. I have been surprised by his ability to accurately identify special weapons related facilities (not all but most).
> But after yesterday he has completely gone bonkers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818467434885771268Here he compares two screen grabs from obviously cropped, separate clips from the same flight, and somehow imagines that it was one continuous shot, and then calculates the speed. Logic?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818583784383651840And here, again he presents a screen grab showing a "canister", whereas if the whole video is watched, it is observed that its actually two different launch scenes, the merger of which he is showing. In effect, the missile from the first scene is what he is terming as a canister here.
> (Take note that a canister was of course involved, more accurately called a capsule, but it was ejected way lower, as a splash can be seen near the exit point over water).
> 
> Lastly for those questioning the color, Babur has always had a red/white stripes paint scheme for testing, enabling easy visual detection and subsequent tracking (probably for escorting fighter pilots). Its just the bad video quality, something we have always criticized. More tests will follow suit, and soon we'll have better launch videos for the public.
> 
> Edit: I don't know what kind of fits these morons will throw after we unveil the MIRVed system. Let me write before-hand some things that they will say:
> 1. Its just an SLV.
> 2. It just jettisons multiple warheads, they are not guided because pakis don't have any knowledge of independent trajectory insertions.
> 3. It looks so fragile, its not mobile.
> 4. The range is not enough for independent trajectory insertions.
> 5. China gifted it to Pakistan.
> and so on.

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## Director General

Windjammer said:


> we done something even better, mated American weapons on Chinese systems.


That's easy.
Integrating Western weapons in Russian & Chinese platforms are nothing unique as Russia-China readily share the needed source codes.
But the opposite is not true as Western Nations like France and USA do not share the source codes needed.

For example Your F-16s still cannot data link with ZDKs.


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## Sloth 22

Taimoor Khan said:


> You can have 50s of those SSBN, BUT if you havent demonstrated a single of them to be able to fire SLCM or SLBM successfully, that means the status of your second strike capability is questionable.



Demonstration? Well that has happened numerous times with K15 which is now under production , and is undergoing with K4.


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## The Deterrent

Karl said:


> Is the MIRVed system based on the Shaheen-3 @TheDeterrent? Or a larger Dia missile/SLV like China's Kuaizhou?


The former, but let's just say the dia problem has been solved in a fairly obvious way. You'll see soon hopefully.

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## Awan68

Bhupendra Singh_Cyan said:


> Don't worry we don't have any ambitious plans to capture Pakistan. Any sane person will not argue in this atleast


But we do, rest assured indiot, seriously we wont rest until we see green and white on dehli fort...

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## Windjammer

Director General said:


> That's easy.
> Integrating Western weapons in Russian & Chinese platforms are nothing unique as Russia-China readily share the needed source codes.
> But the opposite is not true as Western Nations like France and USA do not share the source codes needed.
> 
> For example Your F-16s still cannot data link with ZDKs.


To put your mind to rest.....Babur missile is not some Chinese system, if anything it's based on Tom hawk. 
You don't make a bullet if you don't have a gun to fire it.

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## Awan68

smok123 said:


> your Missiles depends on American navigation systems ..that means You can not use them without permission of USA .
> 
> 
> You can use Chinese navigation systems in the future but then You will be depended on China's permission .
> 
> 
> This is why Pakistaan did not use nukes even after loosing 3 months long Kargil war .
> 
> 
> on the other hand India has it's own navigation system .


Someone plz ban this baboon, surely there is a certain standard for people allowed on this forum, this species that proves darwin true shouldnf be welcome here, navigation system???, permission??, seriously WTF???


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## TaimiKhan

http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/ORD_UGM-109_Launch_Periscope_Silhouette_Raytheon_lg.jpg

A very informative documentary related to cruise missiles, especially tomahawk one. 

Watch the first 5.30 minutes and the same method and tech is used in launching Babur CM yesterday. If you watch the Babur missile launch, in initial first few secs you will see the same debris (covers between the booster & missile holding the tail fins folded) falling as seen here in Tomahawk. The rocket booster fires underwater and propels the missile to a certain height from where the internal turbo jet / fan engine takes over.



rustom said:


> Looks like S20 demonstrating the LACM capability. Chinese submarine doing a demo for the customer. Things to cover-up before S20 is delivered.



Bye another troll. 

Same treatment for the ones who keep doing that.

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## Hassan Guy

Karl said:


> This is simply wrong. If you look at the development of South Korea's Hyunmoo series of cruise missiles,
> 
> Hyunmoo-3A - 500 km
> Hyunmoo-3B - 1,000 km
> Hyunmoo-3C - 1,500 km
> 
> They're not so different to to the Babur series. I would expect the new S20 submarines to be equipped with the Babur 3 MK 2 version and be capable of fielding the MK 3.


VLS will be needed for longer range cruise missiles like on the Amur-class sub.
Otherwise the 533m torpedo tubes will continue to limit range on both Agosta and the new upcoming subs.


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## TaimiKhan

another bites the dust. 

Keep them coming.

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## volatile

monitor said:


> *Pakistan’s Tests New Sub-Launched Nuclear-Capable Cruise Missile. What Now?*
> Pakistan’s successful test of the Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile presents new challenges.
> 
> By Ankit Panda and Vipin Narang
> January 10, 2017
> 
> 
> On Monday, Pakistan announced that it had successfully carried out the first-ever test of its nuclear-capable Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM) from a submerged platform. The test took place at an unspecified location in the Indian Ocean off the Pakistani coast. Maj. Gen. Asif Ghafoor of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Public Relations released limited footage of the test on Twitter that shows the missile’s ejection, launch, and finally striking a target with reasonable accuracy. The Babur-3 SLCM is officially rated for a range of 450 kilometers.
> 
> Pakistan’s Babur-3 SLCM is ultimately designed for use with its _Agosta_ 90bBdiesel-electric submarines, which have reportedly been modified to enable SLCM launches, but remain untested in this regard. Per the Pakistani military’s statement regarding the test, the Babur-3 “is a sea-based variant of Ground Launched Cruise Missile (GLCM) Babur-2, which was successfully tested earlier in December, last year.”
> 
> Critically, the Babur-3 is capable of nuclear payload delivery. Once fully developed and tested on-board a submarine, Pakistan would possess – in theory, at least – a sea-based second strike capability. Pakistan has been working toward this capability for years; in 2012, it set up a Naval Strategic Force Command. Pakistan’s statement notes this with little ambiguity: “Babur-3 SLCM in land-attack mode, is capable of delivering various types of payloads and will provide Pakistan with a Credible Second Strike Capability, augmenting deterrence.” Specifically, the statement noted that the Babur-3 test was a “step towards reinforcing [Pakistan’s] policy of credible minimum deterrence.”
> 
> Pakistan’s inaugural test of the Babur-3 SLCM raises several questions regarding the future of strategic stability between it and India, as both march toward a nuclear triad. For reference, India tested a 3,000 km submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) variant dubbed K-4 (the naval version of the Agni III missile) from an underwater pontoon in March 2014 before testing it from the Arihant submarine last year. Specifically, the consequences of Pakistan acquiring what it perceives as a credible sea-based second strike capability, depending on a range of factors, may both stabilize and destabilize the delicate nuclear balance between South Asia’s two nuclear-armed rivals.
> 
> First, regarding a nuclear SLCM capability, the upside is that if Pakistan believes the Babur-3 will enhance the survivability of its second strike forces, it can afford to have a less forward-leaning posture with its land-based tactical nuclear forces. This is primarily because Pakistani military planners will have less reason to fear the “use it or lose it” dilemma at the start of a conflict with India. So if this is a step toward bolstering Pakistan’s belief in the survivability of its strategic forces, that should contribute to strategic stability and may not require its planning to necessarily prepare for the early use of lower-order nuclear options. Pakistan’s possession of the Babur-3 means that it can be more confident overall that any first Indian strike would not be totally disarming.
> 
> Nevertheless, there are several problems with the above. First, are Pakistani nuclear submarines actually survivable? The belief that submarine-based nuclear forces are almost completely invulnerable against modern anti-submarine warfare techniques is overstated. The United States’ SSBN force might be, but regional power submarines – such as Pakistan’s Agostas – almost certainly are not. They are noisy and are theoretically more easily detectable than U.S. nuclear submarines. The Pakistani _Agosta_-class submarines are diesel-electric and so they are quieter than first-generation nuclear submarines, but these boats are far from completely invulnerable. Pakistan possesses just three _Agosta _90B submarines, the PNS/M _Khalid_, the PNS/M _Saad_, and the PNS/M _Hamza_. (Pakistan may receive eight modified Chinese S20 _Yuan_-class diesel-electric submarines that may be capable of fielding the SLCM.)
> 
> Like India, Pakistan will have to choose which model to manage its limited nuclear submarines. A ‘bastion’ model that keeps them in port until a crisis makes them extremely vulnerable to being sunk as they are flushed out of known locations. A ‘continuous deterrent patrol’ model runs the risk of unauthorized use and accidents in a crowded Indian Ocean, with possibly limited suitable deterrent patrol boxes, while also giving the Indian Navy ample opportunity to track the signature of the submarines to sink them in war.
> 
> Of course, the survivability problem is not one for not only China and India, and certainly Pakistan, but there is increasing evidence that the U.S. was pretty good at tracking even Soviet SSBNs during the Cold War. Whether India can track and kill Agostas remains an unknown, but is theoretically possible. So despite Pakistani perceptions of the Babur-3-equipped _Agosta_-class submarines contributing to its deterrent, the survivability question may prove destabilizing.
> 
> Second, will Pakistan deploy both conventional and nuclear Agostas, and how will adversaries know the difference? Pakistan having its _Agosta_-class submarines carry missiles tipped with both conventional and nuclear warheads is a recipe for a major catastrophe borne of misperception. In a crisis or war, the Indian Navy will try to sink anything it can find. If Indian ASW forces find a Pakistani _Agosta-_class submarine, they may have to operate under the assumption that the submarine in question is carrying nuclear SLCMs in addition to conventional warheads. Discrimination, thus, will be a major problem and portends serious accidents and unintended escalation.
> 
> Finally, does Pakistan have a sufficient and robust enough command and control infrastructure to safely and reliable manage a submarine based nuclear force? This is another area where the Pakistani Navy faces a problem common to many countries in possession of nuclear submarine forces. How exactly will Pakistan manage a submarine-based nuclear force, where the warhead will have to be pre-mated with the Babur-3 SLCM before the submarine leaves port? Does Pakistan have enough confidence in its very low frequency (VLF) and extremely low frequency (ELF) communication with these _Agosta_ submarines that it can afford to put negative controls on the weapons such that they cannot be fired without central inputs? Probably not.
> 
> This leaves us with a dangerous and destabilizing state of affairs where the captain of a Pakistani Navy submarine will likely end up in possession of at least the physical ability to release nuclear weapons when on deterrent patrol. This could lead to serious unauthorized use or accidents. If the submarine captain cannot reach the civilian-led National Command Authority, will he assume it has been destroyed and release nuclear weapons of his own volition? If the answer to this is “yes,” then Pakistan’s sea-based deterrent will be based around a drastically different overarching principle from how it claims to manage its land-based forces, which are kept under central control until deep into a crisis.
> 
> Monday’s test of the Babur-3 should encourage analysts in New Delhi and Islamabad to seriously think through some of the above questions. For both India and Pakistan — but especially Pakistan — a question to mull over seriously is whether the command and control (C2) challenges of maintaining a submarine nuclear force are so great and simply generate more vulnerabilities than the deterrence benefits of a questionably survivable platform in a shooting war. Despite the Pakistani military exhortations that the Babur-3 reinforces its doctrine of “credible minimum deterrence,” pushing ahead with an undersea deterrent without full consideration of the associated costs may ultimately prove deleterious to South Asian strategic stability.
> 
> _Ankit Panda (@nktpnd) is senior editor at _The Diplomat. _Vipin Narang (@NarangVipin) is an associate professor of political science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology._




Thanks for pointing out the gaps but these are already taken care of as in 2012 a complete spectrum study has been carried out for this purpose Naval Nuclear force establishment was in line with this ,also most recently Pakistan has done studies related to Nuclear spectrum for PN and specially subs ,Writer is in denial and we have seen many Indians writing the similar articles over battle field Nasr for the same , Problem lies here is not Pakistan and its development but India itself which is pushing Pakistan to do all this , Indian weapons and other programs are poorly managed with many reported incidences such as 

Forgetting missiles after exhibitions 
Failure to separate civilian and military installations 
Fissile material subject to theft 
Exposure to Fissile material at airports 
Extremist Govt Taliban style incharge of Nuclear weapons


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## Blue Marlin

TaimiKhan said:


> http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/ORD_UGM-109_Launch_Periscope_Silhouette_Raytheon_lg.jpg
> 
> A very informative documentary related to cruise missiles, especially tomahawk one.
> 
> Watch the first 5.30 minutes and the same method and tech is used in launching Babur CM yesterday. If you watch the Babur missile launch, in initial first few secs you will see the same debris (covers between the booster & missile holding the tail fins folded) falling as seen here in Tomahawk. The rocket booster fires underwater and propels the missile to a certain height from where the internal turbo jet / fan engine takes over.
> 
> 
> 
> Bye another troll.
> 
> Same treatment for the ones who keep doing that.


simply way to defeat the deniers is it simply say the pontoon is not vertical but actually horizontal to simulate a launch from a sub

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## DESERT FIGHTER

TaimiKhan said:


> another bites the dust.
> 
> Keep them coming.

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## Karl

Hopefully not strap-on boosters. I'm guessing lengthened first stage, two shorter second and third stages (same dia as 1st) and an upper liquid? Maybe new propellant. 




The Deterrent said:


> The former, but let's just say the dia problem has been solved in a fairly obvious way. You'll see soon hopefully.



Thought the S20 will have 4 650mm torpedo tubes. 




Hassan Guy said:


> VLS will be needed for longer range cruise missiles like on the Amur-class sub.
> Otherwise the 533m torpedo tubes will continue to limit range on both Agosta and the new upcoming subs.


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## TaimiKhan

Blue Marlin said:


> simply way to defeat the deniers is it simply say the pontoon is not vertical but actually horizontal to simulate a launch from a sub



It was launched from a pontoon or from real sub, i damn care. What i care is that we have got the tech.

From what i know work was being done for years now. After successful results of earlier tests and confirming we have the tech, one of the reason the Naval arm of strategic forces was raised.

And whats the use of showing the world the tech that we have if we can't use it on our current subs, that's ridiculous. Why show someone something when the launching platform is years away. Atleast it will take 3-5 years when we get Chinese sub, why wait till then, when we can have them now.

Someone remember this: http://www.dawn.com/news/914345/pakistan-illegally-modified-us-made-missiles-white-house

Was it really a Harpoon ? 

" Pakistan has denied the charge, saying it developed the missile itself. But according to the report, US intelligence agencies detected on April 23 a suspicious missile test that appeared to indicate that Pakistan had a new offensive weapon. "

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## The Deterrent

Karl said:


> Hopefully not strap-on boosters. I'm guessing lengthened first stage, two shorter second and third stages (same dia as 1st) and an upper liquid? Maybe new propellant.


Oh God no, no boosters. You're almost correct, good guesses.

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## Rashid Mahmood

Karl said:


> Hopefully not strap-on boosters. I'm guessing lengthened first stage, two shorter second and third stages (same dia as 1st) and an upper liquid? Maybe new propellant.



It has one booster rocket (solid Fuel), which disengages after the initial lift and thrust.
The air breathing engine (liquid Fuel) takes over for the rest of the flight path.

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## Hassan Guy

Karl said:


> Hopefully not strap-on boosters. I'm guessing lengthened first stage, two shorter second and third stages (same dia as 1st) and an upper liquid? Maybe new propellant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thought the S20 will have 4 650mm torpedo tubes.


???
No way in hell.
China's current AIP subs implement the 533 mm torpedo tubes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_039A_submarine

It would be crazy for the Pak navy to change from 533mm torpedoes considering it uses the DM2A4
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DM2A4

Even China's torpedoes are 533mm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yu-6_torpedo


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## SHAH820

smok123 said:


> India has many other missiles like (brahmos cruise Missiles & SLBM like K-4 )
> 
> technology transfer ? that means assembling french Parts .
> 
> they gave you permission to use nuclear capable missiles on their submarines ?? no ......... and turkey can not do it .
> 
> 
> please read about kargil war & why India developed Navigation system ..............You can not use nukes without permission of China .
> 
> You can not Buy TOT of Navigation system ..........it is dependent on Navigational satellites ...................they can stop their signals anytime .............just like USA did during Kargil war .





what kind of idiot are you tell me didnt you know about technology transfer ever you heard of TERCOM .Pakistan 70% of its weaponry in Pakistan and acquiring many US made and Europe technology by technology transfer through turkey and other European countries
where india bought every thing from other nation thats why your name is on the top of most weaponry importing countries. you need permission from Russia and Europe your so called bhramos is made by russia not only india which is not more then a hyper sonic missile which can be shot down by air defence system thats why USA is not investing in hyper sonics cruise missiles rather then stealth cruise missiles every cruise missile and ballistic missile is developed in pakistan.
pakistan have navigation satellite and pakistan make navigation equipments for military and older version of babur those system was used but due to chineese navigation system is more accurate thats why we are using it 
(note: in cruise missile whole map and flight path is given to the missile before firring it so it dont need navigation assistant when in flight )
live in reality not imagination your whole nation is living in


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## Samlee

AMCA said:


> Well you already have it. What more do you require?



*By Entertainment I Meant Hypocritical Idiotic Sermons On Why We Name Our Missiles After Invaders Who Looted and Plundered *


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## Blue Marlin

TaimiKhan said:


> It was launched from a pontoon or from real sub, i damn care. What i care is that we have got the tech.
> 
> From what i know work was being done for years now. After successful results of earlier tests and confirming we have the tech, one of the reason the Naval arm of strategic forces was raised.
> 
> And whats the use of showing the world the tech that we have if we can't use it on our current subs, that's ridiculous. Why show someone something when the launching platform is years away. Atleast it will take 3-5 years when we get Chinese sub, why wait till then, when we can have them now.
> 
> Someone remember this: http://www.dawn.com/news/914345/pakistan-illegally-modified-us-made-missiles-white-house
> 
> Was it really a Harpoon ?
> 
> " Pakistan has denied the charge, saying it developed the missile itself. But according to the report, US intelligence agencies detected on April 23 a suspicious missile test that appeared to indicate that Pakistan had a new offensive weapon. "


well if it weren't a sub it hast to be a pontoon. i do recall rashid mahmood saying a while back that the babur slcm was tested a while back.

i thought the harpoon scenario was because of bad inteligance, suspected of being indian to cause a rift, analysts were sceptical as its range is not long enough to be effective and pakistan has the tech to make even better missiles. after allowing American inspectors to inspect pakistani harpoons they found no illegal modifications and the issue was laid to rest.


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## TaimiKhan

Blue Marlin said:


> well if it weren't a sub it hast to be a pontoon. i do recall rashid mahmood saying a while back that the babur slcm was tested a while back.
> 
> i thought the harpoon scenario was because of bad inteligance, suspected of being indian to cause a rift, analysts were sceptical as its range is not long enough to be effective and pakistan has the tech to make even better missiles. after allowing American inspectors to inspect pakistani harpoons they found no illegal modifications and the issue was laid to rest.



But see the link i posted, it said American intel spotted something out at sea and Pak said its something of our own. Clearly something got launched from the sea and traveled inland to target, which was the main reason that we may have done something with Harpoons as no one expected us to have a sea to land attack capability. 

Yes Rashid said and so did i more then a couple of years back that things are moving in this area.

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## Muhammad Omar

fenku said:


> Wow from the video i can see Pakistan got the only capability to make missile move diagonally from the start without resurfacing the submarine....rather first heading straight and then revert to actual path....




LOL US Tomahawk Missile 
NO wonder Just to troll some Indians become idiots

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## Blue Marlin

TaimiKhan said:


> But see the link i posted, it said American intel spotted something out at sea and Pak said its something of our own. Clearly something got launched from the sea and traveled inland to target, which was the main reason that we may have done something with Harpoons as no one expected us to have a sea to land attack capability.
> 
> Yes Rashid said and so did i more then a couple of years back that things are moving in this area.


i thing 2009 was too long ago for a slcm test but something post 2012 sounds more realistic


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## Karl

No I meant in addition to the six 533 mm tubes. Experimental Qing class (of which Pakistan variant is based) was fitted with 1 650 mm torpedo tube for new generation of armaments. We'll wait and see. 




Hassan Guy said:


> ???
> No way in hell.
> China's current AIP subs implement the 533 mm torpedo tubes.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_039A_submarine
> 
> It would be crazy for the Pak navy to change from 533mm torpedoes considering it uses the DM2A4
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DM2A4
> 
> Even China's torpedoes are 533mm
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yu-6_torpedo


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## Hassan Guy

Karl said:


> No I meant in addition to the six 533 mm tubes. Experimental Qing class (of which Pakistan variant is based) was fitted with 1 650 mm torpedo tube for new generation of armaments. We'll wait and see.


Qing class has a dedicated VLS for cruise and ballistic missiles.


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## Khanate

TaimiKhan said:


> But see the link i posted, it said American intel spotted something out at sea and Pak said its something of our own. Clearly something got launched from the sea and traveled inland to target, which was the main reason that we may have done something with Harpoons as no one expected us to have a sea to land attack capability.
> 
> Yes Rashid said and so did i more then a couple of years back that things are moving in this area.




Americans are on our case more than Indians. 

Frankly, Pakistan is just screwing with India. Test a missile and then release the video at random to fudge the timelines. No wonder Indians are going berserk.

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## Karl

it's a testbed for new technologies, some of which will be incorporated in the subs Pakistan is buying. Obviously don't expect VLS etc...




Hassan Guy said:


> Qing class has a dedicated VLS for cruise and ballistic missiles.


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## Frankenstein9321

Next step is ICBMs...then nuclear subs, 5th gen fighter, maybe space rocket....Then we are there...more or less....good times...

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## Hassan Guy

Karl said:


> it's a testbed for technologies, some of which will be incorporated in the subs Pakistan is buying. Obviously don't expect VLS etc...


Then obviously if there is no VLS, the babur-3 can't improve range that much - the 533mm torpedo tube will be holding it back.


Hassan Guy said:


> The current weapons range cannot be increased by a very significant amount, don't expect the range to double or go to 1000-1500km.
> (Not even land based babur's have been able to reach this range.)
> 
> The Babur is for taking out critical military assets along the coast of india with a tactical nuclear warhead.
> (1 Dwarka like raid with 1 Babur-3.)
> 
> SLBM's will be needed for launching WMD's deep into India's metropolitan areas.


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## Karl

No, a larger 650 mm dia tube could carry a 1500 KM range cruise missile, perhaps more if the internal is nearer 11 m in length. . Sure naval planners have taken this into account.



Hassan Guy said:


> Then obviously if there is no VLS, the babur-3 can't improve range that much - the 533mm torpedo tube will be holding it back.


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## Hassan Guy

Karl said:


> No, a larger 650 mm dia tube could carry a 1500 KM range cruise missile, perhaps more if the internal is nearer 11 m in length. . Sure naval planners have taken this into account.


It is possible in that case, but it is unknown if Pakistan's new submarines will have them.


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## Rajput_Pakistani

Congratulations Pakistan

It was to be the next logical step in Pakistan's deterrence development. Really thankful to untiring efforts of scientist and engineers, who are doing their best with meager resources.
I have a question and an observation.

First the question,

The impact blast was huge as if Babur-iii was carrying its payload? Was it carrying its payload or it was just shear momentum of the missile which kicked off so much dust and debris?
Your thoughts please @Rashid Mahmood @Khafee @The Deterrent 

Secondly my observation.

Smaller flying objects like the size of fighter planes reflects less light. So when viewed from a certain distance always appear black or grey. Although they may have any color. Was not that the case with this footage that missile appeared grayish at start? 

And Indians with all their denial and conspiracy theories

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## Eagle+Viper



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## touqeer haq

Congratulations to Pakistan on this huge success.

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## Eagle+Viper

Rafi said:


> Sub launched Babur cruise missile test fired congratulations to the whole nation.


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## Riz

Blue Marlin said:


> i thing 2009 was too long ago for a slcm test but something post 2012 sounds more realistic


Bro we tested this missile first time in 2010 , I have already posted many times here before , that we already tested Babur from Agosta submarine in 2010, and the range was 1k NM or 1500 KM sorry I forgot the exact range...sure some pak members was surprised about the range and turned down my claim that we don't have the capability to launch Babur from submarine but now they satisfied after this last announced test which has been done 10 days ago but revealed yesterday


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## My-Analogous

smok123 said:


> your Missiles depends on American navigation systems ..that means You can not use them without permission of USA .
> 
> 
> You can use Chinese navigation systems in the future but then You will be depended on China's permission .
> 
> 
> This is why Pakistaan did not use nukes even after loosing 3 months long Kargil war .
> 
> 
> on the other hand India has it's own navigation system .



Don't proof your self fool, read about Beidou systems and who are current user for that? and who have biggest station of Beidou outside China? and who is the user of military and an civilian both? and it cover how much area till date?

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## ZAC1

I was away from home from last few days.atay he PDF on kiya Wow.....I am so happy about this great achievement...one thing more...its range is more than 450 as the target was set already.it can go more far than this range...?

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## Bubblegum Crisis

Hassan Guy said:


> It is possible in that case, but it is unknown if Pakistan's new submarines will have them.




For 1,500 KM range, 650 mm torpedo tubes is enough.

Dolphin-class submarine

Popeye Turbo SLCM










...

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## The Deterrent

TaimiKhan said:


> But see the link i posted, it said American intel spotted something out at sea and Pak said its something of our own. Clearly something got launched from the sea and traveled inland to target, which was the main reason that we may have done something with Harpoons as no one expected us to have a sea to land attack capability.


_Sir garray murday kyon ukhaar rahay hain? Raat gayi, baat gayi. 


Rajput_Pakistani said:



Congratulations Pakistan

It was to be the next logical step in Pakistan's deterrence development. Really thankful to untiring efforts of scientist and engineers, who are doing their best with meager resources.
I have a question and an observation.

First the question,

The impact blast was huge as if Babur-iii was carrying its payload? Was it carrying its payload or it was just shear momentum of the missile which kicked off so much dust and debris?
Your thoughts please @Rashid Mahmood @Khafee @The Deterrent

Click to expand...

_It was just the impact that kicked off debris. No explosive warhead was used.
_
_

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## Bratva

The Deterrent said:


> The former, but let's just say the dia problem has been solved in a fairly obvious way. You'll see soon hopefully.



Soon like this year ?


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## Eagle+Viper




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## Secret Service

congratulations to Pakistanis. Actually the missile test took place almost 10 days ago and so on the sanctions. but videos is released yesterday.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Hassan Guy said:


> The current weapons range cannot be increased by a very significant amount, don't expect the range to double or go to 1000-1500km.


Tomahawk can travel 1500 miles, why not Babur. Wait for few more years, we will see increase in range.


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## Hassan Guy

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Tomahawk can travel 1500 miles, why not Babur. Wait for few more years, we will see increase in range.


Because, Tomohawk is fired from a VLS
The 533mm torpedo tube limits the Babur.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Woke up today and was feeling great , just like yesterday. Must be due to the nuclear Tirade

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## AMCA

Samlee said:


> *By Entertainment I Meant Hypocritical Idiotic Sermons On Why We Name Our Missiles After Invaders Who Looted and Plundered *



Well you just said it. Nothing to prove then!! You seriously wouldn't like getting trolled, do you?


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## SecularNationalist

raihans said:


> jub bhejien gay to weight ker layna


 
A great achievement indeed.
It can take out big indian military installments and target cities as well from Andaman islands and indian ocean.

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## altor

Congratulations to Pakistan.

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## razgriz19

Can we all just "chanda jama karlen" for 3 high resolution cameras for our armed forces. 

I can't even see the missile separation from its water tight container -___-

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## Penguin

CriticalThought said:


> Large numbers to handle multiple conflicts and mitigate risks make sense. But as you have yourself agreed, it doesn't mean a single asset wouldn't provide credible offence capability.


But there is a fundamental difference between a credible offence capability and a strategic deterrent: the latter has to be available ... *always*.

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## Taimoor Khan

Sloth 22 said:


> Demonstration? Well that has happened numerous times with K15 which is now under production , and is undergoing with K4.



Please let us watch the actual test fire from your sub NOT pontoon. Until then, it's all claims and counter claims.

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## The Deterrent

Bratva said:


> Soon like this year ?


I would provide you with the exact time frame, however the project is lagging behind, a lot. Delays keep popping out, but lets hope this time Pakistan goes through with it in one go (unlike Shaheen-III's multiple launch delays). This is understandable, given the complexity of the system and Pakistan's relative inexperience in this domain.

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## gambit

AUz said:


> @gambit Sir, watch the video in the opening post and give us your insight.
> 
> What do you think of this achievement by a developing state like Pakistan?


It is an excellent weapons platform. Personally, I have always been a fan of the cruise missile.

The cruise missile is the first UAV. Like all missile, it is a one-way weapon. Its subsonic speed is not a flaw and if the aircraft is sophisticated enough to have terrain following and terrain avoidance (TF/TA) capabilities, subsonic flight is an advantage because this speed level allows much greater time for the flight navigation system to create better flight profile over varying terrain.

On the tactical front, the cruise missile have an inherent low detectability index, meaning its launch is difficult to detect. Against an enemy that do not have high altitude monitoring capability, such satellites or AWACS, the flight of the cruise missile also have low detectibility index.

A cruise missile wave attack can, and usually will, soften up the hard defenses of a heavily defended target area, creating defense gaps where smaller and softer targets are vulnerable to precision guided weapons but required human adjudication before destruction. In other words, the cruise missiles exposes those softer targets where I can better use my 2,000 lbs bombs.



AUz said:


> How complex/not-so-complex it is to launch a cruise missile from under water and all?


Not at all. The torpedo is launched via high pressured sea water. The problem is not this process but lies in how to change the torpedo from being a submarine into an aircraft.

A vertical launch of a ballistic missile boosts the missile out of the water and into the air in a few seconds. There is no transition to speak of. On the other hand, the torpedo, which is a submarine, must travels underwater for some distance, for safety reasons, before it must change into an aircraft. How do you design such a system ? What kind of sensors would you need to detect water and air ? What kind of timing mechanisms ? These questions are essentially outside of the sub.

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## Jaanbaz

Penguin said:


> What disturbs me is the behavior of one particular poster, who attempts to make out as if I denied Pakistan's existing capability's and who is unable to cope with the fact that one should remain properly cautious in the absense of hard evidence. In short, he makes it into a personal thing, whic it isn't and never was for me. Otherwise congrats Pakistan. Hope you don't mind if I still continue to use my brain, festivities notwithstanding.



So your point was that there isn't sufficient evidence. Okay but please don't expect Pakistan to provide full details just because of the current Geo-Politcs of the region. I heard USA isn't too happy either since it disturbs its plans for installing India as the sole security guard of South Asia.

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## Penguin

Jaanbaz said:


> So your point was that there isn't sufficient evidence. Okay but please don't expect Pakistan to provide full details just because of the current Geo-Politcs of the region. I heard USA isn't too happy either since it disturbs its plans for installing India as the sole security guard of South Asia.


You have have heard many things. Does that mean they are necessarily true? And how do you establish that?
Lot of people make all sorts of claims here. It is not unreasonable to look at what actual information is out there.
What is unreasonable, however, is a poster making a claim and when asked to substantiate it and/or faced with valid arguments to the contrary, that poster turning to personal attacks (rather than than coming up with valid counterpoint(s) or -evidence .

You have a nice day now!


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## Sloth 22

Taimoor Khan said:


> Please let us watch the actual test fire from your sub NOT pontoon. Until then, it's all claims and counter claims.



That's something difficult to say. 

But one can predict the status of SLBMs , if they are under production.That conveys which system has been integrated and which isn't. 

By the way till now , Indian Navy hasn't made any claim with Arihant and 2nd strike capability.


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## SecularNationalist

Devil Soul said:


> *Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor* ‏@OfficialDGISPR  5m5 minutes ago
> #Pakistan successfully test fired first Submarine launched Cruise Missile Babur-3. Rg 450 Km. #COAS congrats Nation and the team involved.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818427713627295745


Well there is something fishy i cannot understand here.Initially the missile which was launched is blue or grayish in color but later the missile is red in color? Are they two different missiles ?


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## Awan68

razgriz19 said:


> Can we all just "chanda jama karlen" for 3 high resolution cameras for our armed forces.
> 
> I can't even see the missile separation from its water tight container -___-


Lol there must be a reason for that dont u think so??, maybe they dont want experts to examine the missle closely


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## Ultima Thule

SecularNationalist said:


> Well there is something fishy i cannot understand here.Initially the missile which was launched is blue or grayish in color but later the missile is red in color? Are they two different missiles ?


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## Khafee

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Tomahawk can travel 1500 miles, why not Babur. Wait for few more years, we will see increase in range.


The difference between the fuel cells.



razgriz19 said:


> Can we all just "chanda jama karlen" for 3 high resolution cameras for our armed forces.
> 
> I can't even see the missile separation from its water tight container -___-


Missile tests are recorded via high speed HD cameras - 2,000~ 3,000 frames or more per second. That footage is classified, and only a few get to see. 

This is why in press releases sometimes old images are recycled, because new ones in low rez are not available.

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## tarrar

Congrats to whole of nation.

Meanwhile in India, they cannot stop their crap.

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## The Deterrent

> Now, if the Babur-3 was indeed launched from a SSK belonging to the PN—and the PN has only three Agosta 90B and two Agosta 70B SSKs all of which are equipped with the THALES-supplied SUBTICS combat management system—then the fire-control system servers required for computing and transmitting the firing solution for/to the encapsulated Babur-3 would have to be integrated with the SUBTICS and the 533mm torpedo launch-tubes. This is an impossible task, given the fact that THALES does not share the operating source-codes of thre SUBTICS’ fire-control algorithms with anyone.





> They don't need to be integrated into SUBTICS. Torpedoes do because they remain in constant contact with the submarine's FCS and hardlinked to the submarine via control wires until autonomous tracking takes place within what could be considered terminal distance.
> 
> Norway is currently doing last-life upgrades on its Ula class submarines which includes FCS mods to make them able to handle newer generations of torpedoes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The submarines are also having JSM - called NSM-SL when sub-launched - integrated into them, though the missile while be featured on the Ula replacement, not the Ulas themselves. The Ulas will be used for test-launches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Because they don't use any systems that would need to be hard-linked with a submarine's FCS, and can be launched using the same protocols that see any foreign object evacuated from the torpedo tubes, such as MJK commandoes, the JSM can be launched regardless of any mods to the submarines systems.
> 
> Using strictly passive forms of guidance, they need minimal contact with the submarine itself.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most SLCMs have their own control systems like Tomahawk's "Tactical Tomahawk Weapons Control System" that can be integrated into a boat's FCS to allow the missile to receive mid-course updates, but that's not strictly necessary.
> 
> It's still a good idea to integrate a missile into the greater FCS, which would require a modification of SUBTICS on French-origin submarines.
> 
> ...
> 
> *I can tell you from professional experience that when we do integration for AUVs we do need to make mods if we're running a control wire to the submarine mothership. But for disposable, one-shot systems like Mine Sniper, no such thing needs to be done. Just flood the tubes and launch and let the AUV's active guidance do its work.*


Source: https://defence.pk/threads/a-not-so-silent-war-babur-3-ssk-interception.471758/page-6#ixzz4VRZnXJjT

@Penguin @Oscar What is your opinion on this?
I believe their shouldn't be any problem in integrating Babur-3 with Agosta-90B, just like @Fenrir mentioned above. Furthermore, since the present submersible mobile testing platform can launch it without using a complex mechanism like a firing solution, the same can be applied here. The sub just has to achieve launch depth, level-off and eject the weapon. The missile's INS can then take over the boost phase, and later the A-GNSS + INS can guide it over sea till it reaches land, whereby TERCOM + DSMAC guidance begins.

However, the question of initialization of the INS remains.

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## Abdul salam farooqi

Hi friends this is my first post. I am regular reader of this forum since 10 year. I am very happy to read that Pakistan has successfully test babur cruise missile system from sea. Congratulations to all pakistanies all muslim brothers.

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## Taimoor Khan

Sloth 22 said:


> That's something difficult to say.
> 
> But one can predict the status of SLBMs , if they are under production.That conveys which system has been integrated and which isn't.
> 
> By the way till now , Indian Navy hasn't made any claim with Arihant and 2nd strike capability.



If you look at the actual facts on the ground, as we speak, as of today, Pakistan has demonstrated its second strike capabilities from open sea using a submarine. Even the Pakistani official news release mentioned the "second strike capability". 

Nobody is denying that India is in possession of missiles which can be launched with submerged platform, but to have a credible second strike capability, India must demonstrate firing these missiles from its subs. Until that is not done, Pakistan clearly enjoys a decisive edge here. This is astonishing, atleast on paper, when Indian efforts to nuclearise the Indian ocean are going on for sometime, well before of any recorded Pakistani attempt or effort.

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## Sloth 22

Taimoor Khan said:


> If you look at the actual facts on the ground, as we speak, as of today, Pakistan has demonstrated its second strike capabilities from open sea using a submarine. Even the Pakistani official news release mentioned the "second strike capability".
> 
> Nobody is denying that India is in possession of missiles which can be launched with submerged platform, but to have a credible second strike capability, India must demonstrate firing these missiles from its subs. Until that is not done, Pakistan clearly enjoys a decisive edge here. This is astonishing, atleast on paper, when Indian efforts to nuclearise the Indian ocean are going on for sometime, well before of any recorded Pakistani attempt or effort.



May be. 

But I can say about our perspective. The SSBN and Associated programs are highly secretive, and its not considered important to show everything at the moment when we cannot have continuous deployment of SSBN for the whole year. 

And release of SLBM test launches from SSBN is also a matter of concern. Even PLAAN doesn't show up anything.It doesn't undermine their 2nd strike capability.


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## 90ArsalanLeo

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> Congratz to PN and team of scientists . I think France is taken into confidence about launch of Babur from Agosta 90 .Now , we have sea based Nuclear deterrence . Nuclear Triad is completed .



Why we need to take france in confidence its our subs we paid for it we dont owe any explanation to them


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## Bratva

90ArsalanLeo said:


> Why we need to take france in confidence its our subs we paid for it we dont owe any explanation to them



They will suspend the maintenance contract and stop providing the spare parts . When a buyer sale their things, they put such clauses in the agreement so their hardware cant be reverse engineered by seller. Just as Apple or Samsung Voids the guarantee of any mobile if it has been Jailbroken.



The Deterrent said:


> I would provide you with the exact time frame, however the project is lagging behind, a lot. Delays keep popping out, but lets hope this time Pakistan goes through with it in one go (unlike Shaheen-III's multiple launch delays). This is understandable, given the complexity of the system and Pakistan's relative inexperience in this domain.



That zardari era dried up the funding. Money hai to honey hai. As the example of India, they have the money hence they procure technical expertise from anywhere. Hence the advance version of Agni 6 happened. The composite rocket, 4th Gen Guidance system has not only made the size of missile smaller but will help India to upgrade all of its missile inventory.

Meanwhile Pakistan is still in the business of lengthening their missiles 


P.S What cause Shaheen III Launch delays ? Similar delayes Shaheen I faced in 1997 ? As per the AQ Khan revelations, Shaheen I exploded on the launch pad. for the first time when it was about to be tested.

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## The Deterrent

Bratva said:


> That zardari era dried up the funding. Money hai to honey hai. As the example of India, they have the money hence they procure technical expertise from anywhere. Hence the advance version of Agni 6 happened. The composite rocket, 4th Gen Guidance system has not only made the size of missile smaller but will help India to upgrade all of its missile inventory.
> 
> Meanwhile Pakistan is still in the business of lengthening their missiles


Well its not exactly like that. India has established a diverse and concrete base for ballistic missile development in form of the Agni series. True that they probably never faced serious funding issues, but its also the technological advancement rooted in the past decade that gives them the edge.

Pakistan is working with what we have at the moment, and what we know we can do with it.



> P.S What cause Shaheen III Launch delays ? Similar delayes Shaheen I faced in 1997 ? As per the AQ Khan revelations, Shaheen I exploded on the launch pad. for the first time when it was about to be tested.


Minor glitches. If a system exhibits any sort of anomaly in the critical components during pre-flight tests, the whole thing has to be called off until it is clear to go. Flight data retrieval via telemetry is absolutely essential for test flights. A systems as big and complex as that requires flawless pre-flight clearance.
I don't know about any such event regarding Shaheen-I. The first flight was conducted in 1999.

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## Taimoor Khan

Sloth 22 said:


> May be.
> 
> But I can say about our perspective. The SSBN and Associated programs are highly secretive, and its not considered important to show everything at the moment when we cannot have continuous deployment of SSBN for the whole year.
> 
> And release of SLBM test launches from SSBN is also a matter of concern. Even PLAAN doesn't show up anything.It doesn't undermine their 2nd strike capability.



I understand your perspective when it comes to secrecy. However looking from outside, its rather strange phenomena going about where India is very open about testing its BMs from submerged static pantoons, yet not revealing or openly conducting the same tests from submarines. Mind you, the tests of BMs cannot be hidden from the rest of the world unlike the cruise missiles. 

Its more of the case where Missile and platform (submarines) are not matted yet.


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## graphican

Jane has suggested that Babur-III's range could be 700KM. 
https://defence.pk/threads/ihs-jane-360-babur-3-cruise-missile-has-a-range-of-700-km.471921/

Taking 700KM range (which is a possibility), Pakistan would cover this much Indian territory.

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## 艹艹艹

Congratulations to Pakistan

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## Penguin

The Deterrent said:


> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/a-not-so-silent-war-babur-3-ssk-interception.471758/page-6#ixzz4VRZnXJjT
> 
> @Penguin @Oscar What is your opinion on this?
> I believe their shouldn't be any problem in integrating Babur-3 with Agosta-90B, just like @Fenrir mentioned above. Furthermore, since the present submersible mobile testing platform can launch it without using a complex mechanism like a firing solution, the same can be applied here. The sub just has to achieve launch depth, level-off and eject the weapon. The missile's INS can then take over the boost phase, and later the A-GNSS + INS can guide it over sea till it reaches land, whereby TERCOM + DSMAC guidance begins.
> 
> However, the question of initialization of the INS remains.


I'm inclined to agree with the post by Fenrir. Even on land, you need very little to target and use a NSM. But you do need to instruct the missile prior to launch e.g. on the target general whereabouts and flight profile to use. Only with fixed landbased target would there not be such a need. Possibly, one could launch and then instruct via datalink. Anyway, worst case, with the subs here, you would have to trick Subtics into thinking it is communicating with Exocet or Harpoon, both of which in use with PN subs using Subtics (A70 > Harpoon, A90B > Exocet): "Hi, I'm your UGM-84/SM-39, please provide the folliwing necessary info: ... ".

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## gambit

Among the most important things people must understand about the cruise missile is that just like any aircraft, the thing requires maintenance. But the big difference is that unlike a manned aircraft, once a cruise missile is in flight, there is no going back.

A manned aircraft is designed and literally overbuilt in order to be reusable. This aircraft must be overbuilt to withstand multiple contacts with the ground, aka 'landing'. Its wings must be overbuilt to sometimes support only the aircraft and sometimes to support the aircraft plus underwing stores. Its airframe must be overbuilt to withstand stress from unexpected altitude and speed changes. Its engine(s) must be overbuilt to withstand multiple starts and diverse performance settings.

Not so with the cruise missile. The few examples in the above paragraph that is a manned aircraft, it is the opposite for the cruise missile.

In aviation, civilian and military, there is something call a 'functional check flight' (FCF)...

http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Functional_Check_Flights

FCF exists only if the aircraft is a reusable one. The aircraft flies, it developed a problem, maintenance repaired said problem, a pilot performs an FCF and recertified the aircraft.

This is not possible with a cruise missile since it is designed to be a one-way weapon with that mission on its first engine start. This make maintenance on the cruise missile only the periodic type, whereas on a manned aircraft, maintenance can and often is unplanned.

So what this means for cruise missile periodic maintenance is that the cruise missile is removed from operational status, disassembled, and each component is tested for functionality.

For example, the flight control system (FLCS) is tested as complete system to see if it responds to different simulated atmospheric inputs. The flight control actuators are tested discretely, meaning separated from the aircraft, to see if it responds to inputs. The warhead arming mechanisms are tested to see if it arms the warhead at the appropriate time.

http://www.tinker.af.mil/News/Artic...87023/tinker-shop-powers-cruise-missiles.aspx


> "They're basically a throw-away engine," says Mike Harris, jet engine mechanic. *"They're good for one go around." *
> 
> With only one shot, everyone is meticulous. The seven-person crew are the only ones in the world who overhaul and maintain the miniature jet engine.


That means if a cruise missile engine failed at launch, the mission to attack the enemy just got degraded to some degrees.

In summary, it is one thing to successfully design and test a cruise missile, it is quite another to field a fleet and its supporting structure. Keep in mind that if the generals are convinced that the cruise missile fleet is functional and readied for war, they will incorporate this weapon into their war doctrines. If the cruise missile fleet fails to meet standards, the prosecution of the war will be much more difficult.

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## ShoutB

graphican said:


> Jane has suggested that Babur-III's range could be 700KM.
> https://defence.pk/threads/ihs-jane-360-babur-3-cruise-missile-has-a-range-of-700-km.471921/
> 
> Taking 700KM range (which is a possibility), Pakistan would cover this much Indian territory.
> View attachment 367600


Only if you come so close to the coast.

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## Chanakyaa

Abdul salam farooqi said:


> Hi friends this is my first post. I am regular reader of this forum since 10 year. I am very happy to read that Pakistan has successfully test babur cruise missile system from sea. Congratulations to all pakistanies all muslim brothers.



10 Years ! 
Your Patience...is Outstanding !



graphican said:


> Jane has suggested that Babur-III's range could be 700KM.
> https://defence.pk/threads/ihs-jane-360-babur-3-cruise-missile-has-a-range-of-700-km.471921/
> 
> Taking 700KM range (which is a possibility), Pakistan would cover this much Indian territory.
> View attachment 367600



Provided the Launch Platform was Docked at the Coast !
Quite contradictory is the fact that Nuclear Subs ( in Nuclear Role) tend to stay as far as possible !

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## The Deterrent

ShoutB said:


> They cant even lie properly. Because for that they should know the basic of missile development.
> 
> Bunch of losers fantacising about fake launches. No Indian radar tracked it, no NOTAM, nothing. Just fooling their people.


https://www.paknavy.gov.pk/securite/20161226SEC 437.txt

Now take your tushy back to the cooling pump of the "Indian" radar that was supposed to track it (which you're late for by two weeks anyway).

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## SMC

The Deterrent said:


> https://www.paknavy.gov.pk/securite/20161226SEC 437.txt
> 
> Now take your tushy back to the cooling pump of the "Indian" radar that was supposed to track it (which you're late for by two weeks anyway).







ShoutB said:


> They cant even lie properly. Because for that they should know the basic of missile development.
> 
> Bunch of losers fantacising about fake launches. No Indian radar tracked it, no NOTAM, nothing. Just fooling their people.



You are right. There was no missile test that happened. You can sleep well now.


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## Syed1.

ShoutB said:


> Test happened in Jan 2017 as reported. It would have become a news on the same day it happened if tested on 28th dec. But no news of any such on 28th dec.
> 
> NOTAM cancelled on 28th dec 0930 hrs.
> 
> Safety height:1000 meters
> 
> For a missile test? BC
> 
> O bhai .. hum ch***** nahi hai na hi hum jahil hai tumhari tarah we are well educated literate and proper graduate from engineering institutions and we know how to read NOTAMS. you may fool your citizens with those digits and saying.. highly technical data.., lol...



Sir I'm also a trained engineer as well with concentration in aeronautics. Can you please explain to me why a safety height of 1000 meters seems outrageous to you? Especially when the missile is designed to be terrain hugging.

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## Bhupendra Singh_Cyan

Can anybody tell me how this missile launched at 30-40 degrees from submarine? 
The maximum change in canister can be done is 10-15 degree and further change will completely make the submarine big in diameter which is nearly impossible in today's tech. 
Explain anyone? Trolls stay away.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

long_ said:


> Congratulations to Pakistan

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## Syed1.

ShoutB said:


> NOTAM cancelled on 28th dec2016
> 
> Test happened on Jan, 2017
> 
> 
> This NOTAM is wrong. There was no NOTAM issued for this test.
> 
> This is BS.


But you didn't answer my question regarding safety height. Why is safety height of 1000 meters such an issue. Sir I'm very very eager to know. Please increase my knowledge.

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## ShoutB

Syed1. said:


> But you didn't answer my question regarding safety height. Why is safety height of 1000 meters such an issue. Sir I'm very very eager to know. Please increase my knowledge.


I wont answer it. Because the Notam is wrong. 
Bring a new notam for this test respectively. And i will answer you.


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## Syed1.

ShoutB said:


> I wont answer it. Because the Notam is wrong.
> Bring a new notam for this test respectively. And i will answer you.


You won't answer it, because you don't have an answer. 

Thank you for confirming that you are just another butt-hurt Indian in severe need of Burnol. Have a good day sir.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

ShoutB said:


> I wont answer it. Because the Notam is wrong.
> Bring a new notam for this test respectively. And i will answer you.


because u have none.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

tomahawk submarine launch

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## Syed1.

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> tomahawk submarine launch
> 
> View attachment 367617


Bhai itna upar se math aoo.. yeh Indian waisay hi itnay emo howay hain abhi. Thora halka hath rakho

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## DESERT FIGHTER

ShoutB said:


> So missile in the pic ignited inside the sea? And now has an acute trajectory. . Waaah.....


loro

here is a tomahawk launch






must be agnited after viewing ur behind.

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## Death Walking Terror

ShoutB said:


> Normally the trajectory is vertical before the ignition of booster. And acute or obtuse from the observer that is close to 90 degrees. Here it is 30, 40 degrees as if the canister itself was slanting.


Actually the launch platform was a testing platform and not a submarine.


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## Abdul salam farooqi

XiNiX said:


> 10 Years !
> Your Patience...is Outstanding !
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. I have one things for you sir. The yello tube named burnol

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## ShoutB

This is how the trajectory looks like for a missile , cm , launched from submurged submarnine or platform. 
https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=submarine+launched+cruise&sp=CAASAggA

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## DESERT FIGHTER

ShoutB said:


> Dude these are snaps
> 
> Post a video for initial lunches .. before the booster gets ignited.
> And notice the dept of submarine .. whether it is submurged, partial submurged or surfaced.
> 
> 
> These are all different cases.
> 
> 
> Dont bring your stupidty for advertisement.


dumbass i did post the video.. unlike some shyt sherlock we have military professionals from countries like US posting on this thread

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## Bhupendra Singh_Cyan

ShoutB said:


> Normally the trajectory is vertical before the ignition of booster. And acute or obtuse from the observer that is close to 90 degrees. Here it is 30, 40 degrees as if the canister itself was slanting.


Well idk more about that.
Anyways congratulations.
I Think Pakistan should do something in space research too now.



ShoutB said:


> Normally the trajectory is vertical before the ignition of booster. And acute or obtuse from the observer that is close to 90 degrees. Here it is 30, 40 degrees as if the canister itself was slanting.


But how?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

ShoutB said:


> This is how the trajectory looks like for a missile , cm , launched from submurged submarnine or platform.
> https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=submarine+launched+cruise&sp=CAASAggA



your link


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## Muhammad Omar

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> look at the invisible NATO sub firing tohmahawk from surface..
> 
> View attachment 367620
> 
> 
> 
> so its fake?
> 
> Babur
> 
> View attachment 367621
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tomahawk
> 
> View attachment 367622
> 
> 
> 
> Shyt for brains.



Sir g yeh haal hai inko smjh aana nahi hai kuch they are Numb their brain is not working India is the only nation according to them 
Pakistan Buys Missile from China 
Pakistan doesn't even have Nuclear Missile
Babur was Fake
Atomic blast were Fake 
We are Hyper Power

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## Taimoor Khan

graphican said:


> Jane has suggested that Babur-III's range could be 700KM.
> https://defence.pk/threads/ihs-jane-360-babur-3-cruise-missile-has-a-range-of-700-km.471921/
> 
> Taking 700KM range (which is a possibility), Pakistan would cover this much Indian territory.
> View attachment 367600



Pakistan can keep one of its sub in bay of Bengal covering both Indian east coastline and the strategic Islands of Nicobar and Andamans. At the moment, only Shaheen 3 can reach these Islands.


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## Dalit

LOL at these pathetic Indians trying their level best to disprove the launch. These Indians are going to have nightmares for months to come. I'm loving their denials. They are in total disbelief. What a hard slap in the ugly curry face.

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## Hassan Guy

Bonds are still on fire.


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## Death Walking Terror

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 367626


That's a harpoon.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 367626
> 
> 
> 
> launches from VLS.. are u that fukin stupid?


The second video shows a launch by a British submarine.
All British submarine tomahawk are torpedo tube launched.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Death Walking Terror said:


> That's a harpoon.
> 
> 
> The second video shows a launch by a British submarine.
> All British submarine tomahawk are torpedo tube launched.










Tomahawks:


https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjoo8D9tbrRAhUDOxQKHdeBDhQQjhwIBQ&url=http://www.raytheon.com/products/tomahawk/&psig=AFQjCNF7ZozigMXT6H5Aiv0vYV3fY__0dQ&ust=1484235379011898







https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjU_Y_qtbrRAhXBUhQKHSgbAhQQjhwIBQ&url=http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-Subs-vs-F-111s.html&psig=AFQjCNF7ZozigMXT6H5Aiv0vYV3fY__0dQ&ust=1484235379011898

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## DESERT FIGHTER

ShoutB said:


> Bakwas band kar apni .. jahil namune...
> 
> See you dont have technical expertise. Najaney kya kya post kar raha hai...
> 
> Fake videos fake pics.. no notams, no radar ever captured this launch. Not even Pakistani. Lol...
> 
> No where is babur.. its all tomahawk photos and videos. That too with specific parameters which have been taken account.
> 
> For example.. Depth of submarine during launch..


chutiye google it... this is the Babur launch

source is AFP/Getty

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## Syed1.

ShoutB said:


> So your submarines have canisters which are slanting? Lol
> 
> You might have launched it from torpedo tube while being submurged at some angle with nose up. But there is no confirmation. This is not something which can be useful to launch slbm.



But sir why you run away from my question of safety height. You said you are highly technical person and aren't illiterate like all of us. As an engineer to engineer I want to know your safety height concern. It may help me in my profession. You seem to be very knowledgeable. Please help me sir.

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## Syed1.

ShoutB said:


> This is not second strike capability. Shaheen cannot fit inside torpedo tube.
> 
> For 1 second even if i believe that its launched from sub. Then its diving up submarine , nose up, and launching this missile from torpedo tube.
> 
> If you launch bigger missile like that which is never possible, all your submarines will meet the same fate of PNS Ghazi due to jerk.
> 
> Kuch pata wata hai nahi ajate hai lahore se techies ban kar.


But sir safety height... please tell meeeeee

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## DESERT FIGHTER

ShoutB said:


> This is not second strike capability. Shaheen cannot fit inside torpedo tube.
> 
> For 1 second even if i believe that its launched from sub. Then its diving up submarine , nose up, and launching this missile from torpedo tube.
> 
> If you launch bigger missile like that which is never possible, all your submarines will meet the same fate of PNS Ghazi due to jerk.


douchebag @Penguin @gambit @Rashid Mahmood @TaimiKhan @Oscar @The Deterrent have explained it on previous pages.. i can understand ur butthurt though


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## Hassan Guy

ShoutB said:


> I have read it.
> 
> Launching missiles from torpedo tube and calling it secpnd strike is so shameful. But even that did not hapoen. I can challenge.
> 
> 
> I am only giving you technical details, no random talks.
> 
> Try fitting shaheen 3 in torpedo tube and you will know what happens. Lolssss hehehe


Shaheen Missile will join the Pak Navy submarine fleet, stack up on some burnol till then.

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## Syed1.

ShoutB said:


> Yes because 3000 feet is covered by a missile which has gone mad in few seconds and may hit any one.
> 
> if safety height is for missile that if it goes beyond 1000m then destroy it. But that is not given in Notam.


Ok thanks for your response. 

May I bring to your notice, that you are switching units of measurements to suit your claims. 

1000 m = 3281 feet. 

And you claim that if the rocket goes mad it will climb to a height of 3281 feet within seconds. So taking your word for it and assuming it takes 3 seconds for the missile to attain that height, which means its vertical velocity will be 3281/3 = 1094 ft/s, which is equal to 333 m/s. Which is coincidentally identical to the speed of sound. So you are saying the missile has enough capacity in its thrusters to attain Mach 1.0, bare the huge shockwave that comes from crossing Mach 1.0 and then still have enough fuel capacity to still be a threat to nearby aircraft. 

Sir please use your excellent technical skills to confirm my numbers.

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## Windjammer

ShoutB said:


> Only if you have capability or developed VLS. Launching missile from torpedo tube is a technique not a technology development as a huge.
> 
> Try to learn this.


If you were that clever, you would be sitting on Indian national TV rather than proving your worth here.
Do you think you are more knowledgeable than all the expert and commentators giving coverage to the Pakistani tests.
The US is well aware of Pakistan achieving this capability hence the symbolic sanctions announced against a couple of Pakistani establishments attached to the missile production.

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## Syed1.

ShoutB said:


> I said within seconds.
> 
> How did you pass your engineering, when you dont know the difference between seconds and a second.


Sir I used your "seconds" word for word and did not use one second, but instead used 3 seconds. If you can give me an actual amount of time, it will help me in my calculations. Sir please sir.. 

I'm enjoying this far to much

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## Syed1.

ShoutB said:


> The sanctioned occured because of cosy ness with beijing on missile deals not your capability. Huh


But sir meri calculation... Please help meeeee

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## Windjammer

ShoutB said:


> The sanctioned occured because of cosy ness with beijing on missile deals not your capability. Huh


What missile deal..... you are talking about NOTAMS, just goes to prove your credibility.... do enlighten us if a any NOTAMS were issued when Pakistan tested Babur-2 last month.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

XiNiX said:


> I wish we had the same perception and logic when dealing with topics like SirGkal Strikes !
> Nevermind, I know they were fake anyway.
> 
> On Topic, Any details regarding NOTAM ?


http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2016/10/02/kashmir-pakistan-border-sophia-saifi.cnn
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37518200

same chutiyapa from indian side:

*‘Who the hell is CNN and BBC?’ asks Arnab over reports doubting India’s surgical strikes*
Arnab called one CNN report, “childish, amateurish, poorly scripted, horribly presented”.

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## Syed1.

ShoutB said:


> Yeah, one of your member posted it. Go back few pages back.


Sir ap phirse naughty horahay hain and running away from my posts. Please I'm your student. You are so sharp technically. Help me.


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## Windjammer

ShoutB said:


> Yeah, one of your member posted it. Go back few pages back.


Mixing your Apples and Oranges.
That test was conducted out of blue.


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## Chanakyaa

Windjammer said:


> What missile deal..... you are talking about NOTAMS, just goes to prove your credibility.... do enlighten us if a any NOTAMS were issued when Pakistan tested Babur-2 last month.



Son,

Plz Go and Read what is NOTAM. Let me Help You : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOTAM
Quite Clearly, The Dec 14 Test DID NOT INVOLVE "Sea / International Air Space" !

As per Dawn :
_The missile is fired from a multi-tube launch vehicle and has a reported payload capacity of 300kg.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1302422/improved-version-of-babur-cruise-missile-tested-successfully_

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## Windjammer

ShoutB said:


> Its a crap statement.
> 
> I can understand doing test of an undisclosed weapon but from undisclosed location that no need for NOTAM is a lie.


That's the difference between facts and armchair generals oozing with fiction.
I leave you with a picture of Pakistani test.....let's see if you can comprehend why certain times NOTAMS are not issued.....study it well.

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## Riz

ShoutB said:


> The sanctioned occured because of cosy ness with beijing on missile deals not your capability. Huh


Dude this test was done 10 days ago, and USA aware of this missile , ask UR super dupper navy why they failed to detect this missile test , and why not they informed indian media and govt if they catches missile signals on radar


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## Windjammer

XiNiX said:


> Son,
> 
> Plz Go and Read what is NOTAM. Let me Help You : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOTAM
> Quite Clearly, The Dec 14 Test DID NOT INVOLVE "Sea / International Air Space" !
> 
> As per Dawn :
> _The missile is fired from a multi-tube launch vehicle and has a reported payload capacity of 300kg.
> 
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1302422/improved-version-of-babur-cruise-missile-tested-successfully_


Well kido, the answer lies in your own detail.

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## EAK

ShoutB said:


> India has satelite placed in orbits .. which can detect any thing, even s*h*t thrown outside your house* by your neighbour.



LOL dear this concept is indian..Nobody does such thing in pakistan..
Secondly Use your  super satellite to detect so called infiltration.. don't be shameless now

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## Mrc

riz1978 said:


> Yaa, they can detect shitt because they made of shitt , only thing they failed to catch is infiltration at loc ...




May be they are meant to detect shit in open since most of india dies shit in open


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## -blitzkrieg-

Now that Pakistan has this capability the subs should make frequent visits to the Chinesse built deepsea ports in Myanmar. You need to know how to make ANDAfry and paratha so the poor indian bsf soldiers can be helped fight with a full stomach.

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## fjavaid

Windjammer said:


> That's the difference between facts and armchair generals oozing with fiction.
> I leave you with a picture of Pakistani test.....let's see if you can comprehend why certain times NOTAMS are not issued.....study it well.


Ahh ..i spent almost half day trying to make any sense out of logic from these. Burning neighbours .. According to these goons thy used triangulation on geological features taken from this video nnn with some hi fi imagery calculated the velocity.... Imagine wot other logics were thrown to prove tht .... Ppl with humiliated ego [emoji13]

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## Muhammad Omar

Launda baat aise kr rha hai jese Indain Navy ka Admiral hai LOL

Internet warrior 

B**d me dam nahi hum kisi se kam nahi 2008 se 2016 tk 1 hi cheez sun rhy hain himmat hai to aao 
or wahan in k BSF ko khana tk milta nahi hai ghar bethe fauji bnay huay hain Ch****a

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## Nakash Ahsan

riz1978 said:


> Yaa, they can detect shitt because they made of shitt , only thing they failed to catch is infiltration at loc ...


Then plz detect rapers in india with that sat


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## SQ8

The Deterrent said:


> https://www.paknavy.gov.pk/securite/20161226SEC 437.txt
> 
> Now take your tushy back to the cooling pump of the "Indian" radar that was supposed to track it (which you're late for by two weeks anyway).


Don't reply to thr nation that belongs under the definition of "whiners" in the encyclopedia Brittanica. Largest population of sore losers anywhere in the world- almost 80% of them suffer from this condition.

Don't reply, just report so we can throw them back to the garbage heap of the internet whete they go and try to make more accounts under proxy ips.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> douchebag @Penguin @gambit @Rashid Mahmood @TaimiKhan @Oscar @The Deterrent have explained it on previous pages.. i can understand ur butthurt though


Kaha hai mun na lag!
Only report, lets us deal with them

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## WaLeEdK2

@DESERT FIGHTER @Windjammer





Russian SLCM to Syria. Same angle basically. But ours is fake looool. Just give it up. Denial is in their blood. Even if you give blatant evidence. 

I don't think you have to issue a notam any ways.

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## dexter

Congratulations to fellow Pakistanis,
Indeed its a remarkable achievement to be proud of and who knows what more accomplishments lies ahead for us.
Looks like indians are slowly accepting the reality after their failed claims but still some people are like,
Kutte ki dum tedi ki tedi !

*Pakistan tests Babur III missile: How should India interpret this latest move?*
by Abhijnan Rej 
Jan, 10 2017 

In a major development on Monday, the Pakistan military confirmed that it had successfully tested a sea-launched nuclear-capable cruise missile (SLCM), the Babur III. In a public statement, the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) department noted that the Babur III SLCM has a range of 450 kilometres and “will provide Pakistan with a Credible Second Strike Capability, augmenting deterrence.” An independent open-source geospatial-intelligence handle on Twitter @rajfortyseven – well regarded by Indian and international military analysts – had geolocated the launch and estimated the speed of the missile to be 6,750 kilometres per hour.






Representational image. AFP

While the release was silent about the submarine platform to which Babur III will be integrated, press reports suggest that the Pakistan Navy's Agosta 90B class — the so-called Khalid class — submarines are a natural existing platform of choice; these submarines have cruise-missile launch capabilities. The SLCM itself is a variant of the land-launched cruise-missile (LLCM) system, Babur II. Pakistan had tested an enhanced version of this LLCM mid-December last year.

With the successful test of the Babur III SLCM, Pakistan is now a step closer to a functional nuclear triad, albeit in a very limited way. While this does complicate Indian strategic calculations in the event that the two countries go to war, it is important to establish three key points this test does — or does not — signify _vis-à-vis_ Pakistan's capabilities, doctrines and timing.

One, for close observers of Pakistan's military, the test-launch of Babur-3 does not come entirely as a surprise. Pakistan had established a nuclear naval authority — the Naval Strategic Force Command — in 2013. Indian naval analysts have maintained that it was only a matter of time before the land-launched Babur system was adapted for submarine launches. But for a naval arm of a nuclear triad to be truly successful — in the sense of being survivable in event of combat — the type of submarines to be used to launch the missiles becomes equally important as the missiles themselves.

Ideally, a benchmark nuclear triad will incorporate nuclear-_powered_ submarines that can stay under water almost indefinitely. Such boats, coupled to nuclear sea-launched ballistic missiles (SLBM), can also be used for long-range force projection. The naval arm of the Indian nuclear triad is supported by the _INS Arihant_ — a nuclear-powered submarine with SLBM capabilities — which was quietly commissioned by the Indian Navy in August last year. The premier weapons for INS Arihant are the K-4 SLBMs which reportedly have a range of 3,500 kilometres. The K-4s were tested in April last year. The existing Pakistani Khalid-class submarines are diesel-powered, based on dated French technology. The Babur III — as noted earlier — has a range of a measly 450 kilometres.

Of course, the targets for Pakistani submarines are quite different from that of India's. The Indian Navy seeks to operate in the entire Indo-Pacific (to deter and deny Chinese capabilities) while the Pakistan Navy has a sole objective — to target India. For the former, nuclear-powered submarines are an imperative; for the latter, they are not.

Having said that, even with Babur III mated with the Khalid-class submarines, the Pakistani nuclear triad doesn't come close to meeting international standards at this stage.

Two, a submarine-based nuclear-weapons system only makes strategic sense as a second-strike capability. The scenario that drives the deployment of such systems is where a country deters its adversary from initiating a nuclear first-strike by guaranteeing that it will meet the same with an assured retaliatory second-strike. As such, nuclear triads bolster deterrence and strategic stability. Submarine-based launch systems are much more survivable than land-based ones and relatively more immune to defensive systems that the adversary may have in place to deter and defeat a second-strike. India has a declared policy of a nuclear No-First-Use (NFU), driven by its conventional superiority over Pakistan which assures Indian policy makers that a nuclear first-strike posture is unnecessary. Given this — and the fact that Pakistan's military remains fixated on India alone — how does one square it with Pakistan's quest for a nuclear triad?


There are precisely three possibilities here. One, Pakistan does not believe in India's NFU. This is plausible given the many statements from Rawalpindi brass along those lines. If this is the case – and admitting Pakistani paranoia – a submarine-launched nuclear-capability makes sense. Two, Pakistan believes in India's NFU but still wants to go ahead with such a capability. This could be because of its long-standing obsession with matching India weapon-for-weapon however unnecessary it may be. In which case, Babur III is yet another example of Pakistan military's vanity projects that have sapped so much of Pakistani resources and made the country dependent on extorting western powers.

Three — and this is the most troubling conjecture — Pakistan is prepared for nuclear war-fighting. In this scenario, the Pakistani naval nuclear capability exists as a _third_ strike option, after having absorbed a massive retaliatory Indian second-strike in response to a Pakistani nuclear first-use which annihilates most of its cities and command chain. As far-fetched as this may be, for this to work (per Pakistani calculations), command over submarine-based nuclear weapons has to be delegated to the submarine captains. This increases the chances of rogue use — and forces India to contemplate the same grim scenario as with Pakistan's land-based tactical nuclear weapons. But here, a caveat is necessary. For such an admittedly strange war-fighting posture to work, the Pakistan Army has to trust the Pakistan Navy sufficiently to share nuclear launch authority. This, in turn, will break its monopoly as custodians of the country's crown jewels, with political consequences.

Finally, what should be made of the timing of the Babur III test? Not much. As tempting as it is to read this as a response to India's new Pakistan policy under Prime Minister Narendra Modi — and in light of the so-called surgical strikes of late October — there isn't anything about the Babur III tests that is stunningly original. Granted, it is a major development. But New Delhi is unlikely to lose sleep over it. If this was indeed an attempt at nuclear signalling, Pakistan has failed. Could the Chinese have goaded the Pakistanis — following the Agni V and IV Indian tests of December — to do it? This is possible but, again, the efficacy of such a China-Pakistan signal to India is unclear.

_The author is a fellow at the Observer Research Foundation, New Delhi and a national security columnist for_ Firstpost._ Views expressed here are personal. He tweets @AbhijnanRej_

Source : http://www.firstpost.com/india/paki...india-interpret-this-latest-move-3196456.html

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## Verve

Mashallah. Great achievement by our scientists.


Just curious, were the sanctions after this test was carried out (a few weeks back) and news of the test only released now?


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## SQ8

The Deterrent said:


> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/a-not-so-silent-war-babur-3-ssk-interception.471758/page-6#ixzz4VRZnXJjT
> 
> @Penguin @Oscar What is your opinion on this?
> I believe their shouldn't be any problem in integrating Babur-3 with Agosta-90B, just like @Fenrir mentioned above. Furthermore, since the present submersible mobile testing platform can launch it without using a complex mechanism like a firing solution, the same can be applied here. The sub just has to achieve launch depth, level-off and eject the weapon. The missile's INS can then take over the boost phase, and later the A-GNSS + INS can guide it over sea till it reaches land, whereby TERCOM + DSMAC guidance begins.
> 
> However, the question of initialization of the INS remains.


Not much different to how the h-4 system works on the mirages. Pretty independent from the other systems apart from stores management.

The same goes for this, for all that matters to SUBTICs- babur is just another torpedo in the the tube.

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## maxpayne

Devil Soul said:


> *Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor* ‏@OfficialDGISPR  5m5 minutes ago
> #Pakistan successfully test fired first Submarine launched Cruise Missile Babur-3. Rg 450 Km. #COAS congrats Nation and the team involved.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818427713627295745


Finally they have revealed it!


----------



## WaLeEdK2

Oscar said:


> Don't reply to thr nation that belongs under the definition of "whiners" in the encyclopedia Brittanica. Largest population of sore losers anywhere in the world- almost 80% of them suffer from this condition.
> 
> Don't reply, just report so we can throw them back to the garbage heap of the internet whete they go and try to make more accounts under proxy ips.
> 
> 
> Kaha hai mun na lag!
> Only report, lets us deal with them



Sir, are notams compulsory? Babur seems like it was close enough to the ground so there was no need for one.

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## SQ8

dexter said:


> Congratulations to fellow Pakistanis,
> Indeed its a remarkable achievement to be proud of and who knows what more accomplishments lies ahead for us.
> Looks like indians are slowly accepting the reality after their failed claims but still some people are like,
> Kutte ki dum tedi ki tedi !
> 
> submarines are an imperative; for the latter, they are not.
> 
> Having said that, even with Babur III mated with the Khalid-class submarines, the Pakistani nuclear triad doesn't come close to meeting international standards at this stage.
> 
> Two, a submarine-based nuclear-weapons system only makes strategic sense as a second-strike capability. The scenario that drives the deployment of such systems is where a country deters its adversary from initiating a nuclear first-strike by guaranteeing that it will meet the same with an assured retaliatory second-strike. As such, nuclear triads bolster deterrence and strategic stability. Submarine-based launch systems are much more survivable than land-based ones and relatively more immune to defensive systems that the adversary may have in place to deter and defeat a second-strike. India has a declared policy of a nuclear No-First-Use (NFU), driven by its conventional superiority over Pakistan which assures Indian policy makers that a nuclear first-strike posture is unnecessary. Given this — and the fact that Pakistan's military remains fixated on India alone — how does one square it with Pakistan's quest for a nuclear triad?
> 
> 
> There are precisely three possibilities here. One, Pakistan does not believe in India's NFU. This is plausible given the many statements from Rawalpindi brass along those lines. If this is the case – and admitting Pakistani paranoia – a submarine-launched nuclear-capability makes sense. Two, Pakistan believes in India's NFU but still wants to go ahead with such a capability. This could be because of its long-standing obsession with matching India weapon-for-weapon however unnecessary it may be. In which case, Babur III is yet another example of Pakistan military's vanity projects that have sapped so much of Pakistani resources and made the country dependent on extorting western powers.
> 
> Three — and this is the most troubling conjecture — Pakistan is prepared for nuclear war-fighting. In this scenario, the Pakistani naval nuclear capability exists as a _third_ strike option, after having absorbed a massive retaliatory Indian second-strike in response to a Pakistani nuclear first-use which annihilates most of its cities and command chain. As far-fetched as this may be, for this to work (per Pakistani calculations), command over submarine-based nuclear weapons has to be delegated to the submarine captains. This increases the chances of rogue use — and forces India to contemplate the same grim scenario as with Pakistan's land-based tactical nuclear weapons. But here, a caveat is necessary. For such an admittedly strange war-fighting posture to work, the Pakistan Army has to trust the Pakistan Navy sufficiently to share nuclear launch authority. This, in turn, will break its monopoly as custodians of the country's crown jewels, with political consequences.
> 
> Finally, what should be made of the timing of the Babur III test? Not much. As tempting as it is to read this as a response to India's new Pakistan policy under Prime Minister Narendra Modi — and in light of the so-called surgical strikes of late October — there isn't anything about the Babur III tests that is stunningly original. Granted, it is a major development. But New Delhi is unlikely to lose sleep over it. If this was indeed an attempt at nuclear signalling, Pakistan has failed. Could the Chinese have goaded the Pakistanis — following the Agni V and IV Indian tests of December — to do it? This is possible but, again, the efficacy of such a China-Pakistan signal to India is unclear.
> 
> _The author is a fellow at the Observer Research Foundation, New Delhi and a national security columnist for_ Firstpost._ Views expressed here are personal. He tweets @AbhijnanRej_
> 
> Source : http://www.firstpost.com/india/paki...india-interpret-this-latest-move-3196456.html



Try to understand something very clearly. Just as with the Afghans, there is a section of Indians who are mentally and even physically incapable (they'll get sick) of digesting anything good about Pakistan. Take a look at this article too. Like someone trying to swallow bitter medicine he still tries to diss it. It is a national disease for them to see any other neighbor progress unless that neighbor kisses their feet. They do it to fellow Indians in their professional work environment, think of what they are capable against people they consider enemies.

That does not make them all bad, but as a percentage; there is much less genuine(and not emotional) hatred, jealousy or venom against India from Pakistan than the other way around.

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## Death Walking Terror

WaLeEdK2 said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER @Windjammer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian SLCM to Syria. Same angle basically. But ours is fake looool. Just give it up. Denial is in their blood. Even if you give blatant evidence.
> 
> I don't think you have to issue a notam any ways.


Those Russian SLCMs are VLS launched, not from torpedo tubes.


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## SQ8

WaLeEdK2 said:


> Sir, are notams compulsory? Babur seems like it was close enough to the ground so there was no need for one.


NOTAMS are compulsory, notifications to public regarding what happened on the day of the NOTAM are not.

There can be a NOTAM, we can test 7 systems. And tell the public 3 months later about only 4 of them.

Has happened before.

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## WaLeEdK2

Death Walking Terror said:


> Those Russian SLCMs are VLS launched, not from torpedo tubes.



Doesn't matter if it is or not but torpedo tubes can have that trajectory as well. Agostas are capable of this. 
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=67db2245-804c-46de-8146-8f21f14ab1ff

Like this Tomahawk (which the Babur is based off of). I don't understand what's there to argue?


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## Mrc

dexter said:


> Congratulations to fellow Pakistanis,
> Indeed its a remarkable achievement to be proud of and who knows what more accomplishments lies ahead for us.
> Looks like indians are slowly accepting the reality after their failed claims but still some people are like,
> Kutte ki dum tedi ki tedi !
> 
> *Pakistan tests Babur III missile: How should India interpret this latest move?*
> by Abhijnan Rej
> Jan, 10 2017
> 
> In a major development on Monday, the Pakistan military confirmed that it had successfully tested a sea-launched nuclear-capable cruise missile (SLCM), the Babur III. In a public statement, the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) department noted that the Babur III SLCM has a range of 450 kilometres and “will provide Pakistan with a Credible Second Strike Capability, augmenting deterrence.” An independent open-source geospatial-intelligence handle on Twitter @rajfortyseven – well regarded by Indian and international military analysts – had geolocated the launch and estimated the speed of the missile to be 6,750 kilometres per hour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Representational image. AFP
> 
> like a slap on the arse would be true interpertation
> 
> While the release was silent about the submarine platform to which Babur III will be integrated, press reports suggest that the Pakistan Navy's Agosta 90B class — the so-called Khalid class — submarines are a natural existing platform of choice; these submarines have cruise-missile launch capabilities. The SLCM itself is a variant of the land-launched cruise-missile (LLCM) system, Babur II. Pakistan had tested an enhanced version of this LLCM mid-December last year.
> 
> With the successful test of the Babur III SLCM, Pakistan is now a step closer to a functional nuclear triad, albeit in a very limited way. While this does complicate Indian strategic calculations in the event that the two countries go to war, it is important to establish three key points this test does — or does not — signify _vis-à-vis_ Pakistan's capabilities, doctrines and timing.
> 
> One, for close observers of Pakistan's military, the test-launch of Babur-3 does not come entirely as a surprise. Pakistan had established a nuclear naval authority — the Naval Strategic Force Command — in 2013. Indian naval analysts have maintained that it was only a matter of time before the land-launched Babur system was adapted for submarine launches. But for a naval arm of a nuclear triad to be truly successful — in the sense of being survivable in event of combat — the type of submarines to be used to launch the missiles becomes equally important as the missiles themselves.
> 
> Ideally, a benchmark nuclear triad will incorporate nuclear-_powered_ submarines that can stay under water almost indefinitely. Such boats, coupled to nuclear sea-launched ballistic missiles (SLBM), can also be used for long-range force projection. The naval arm of the Indian nuclear triad is supported by the _INS Arihant_ — a nuclear-powered submarine with SLBM capabilities — which was quietly commissioned by the Indian Navy in August last year. The premier weapons for INS Arihant are the K-4 SLBMs which reportedly have a range of 3,500 kilometres. The K-4s were tested in April last year. The existing Pakistani Khalid-class submarines are diesel-powered, based on dated French technology. The Babur III — as noted earlier — has a range of a measly 450 kilometres.
> 
> Of course, the targets for Pakistani submarines are quite different from that of India's. The Indian Navy seeks to operate in the entire Indo-Pacific (to deter and deny Chinese capabilities) while the Pakistan Navy has a sole objective — to target India. For the former, nuclear-powered submarines are an imperative; for the latter, they are not.
> 
> Having said that, even with Babur III mated with the Khalid-class submarines, the Pakistani nuclear triad doesn't come close to meeting international standards at this stage.
> 
> Two, a submarine-based nuclear-weapons system only makes strategic sense as a second-strike capability. The scenario that drives the deployment of such systems is where a country deters its adversary from initiating a nuclear first-strike by guaranteeing that it will meet the same with an assured retaliatory second-strike. As such, nuclear triads bolster deterrence and strategic stability. Submarine-based launch systems are much more survivable than land-based ones and relatively more immune to defensive systems that the adversary may have in place to deter and defeat a second-strike. India has a declared policy of a nuclear No-First-Use (NFU), driven by its conventional superiority over Pakistan which assures Indian policy makers that a nuclear first-strike posture is unnecessary. Given this — and the fact that Pakistan's military remains fixated on India alone — how does one square it with Pakistan's quest for a nuclear triad?
> 
> 
> There are precisely three possibilities here. One, Pakistan does not believe in India's NFU. This is plausible given the many statements from Rawalpindi brass along those lines. If this is the case – and admitting Pakistani paranoia – a submarine-launched nuclear-capability makes sense. Two, Pakistan believes in India's NFU but still wants to go ahead with such a capability. This could be because of its long-standing obsession with matching India weapon-for-weapon however unnecessary it may be. In which case, Babur III is yet another example of Pakistan military's vanity projects that have sapped so much of Pakistani resources and made the country dependent on extorting western powers.
> 
> Three — and this is the most troubling conjecture — Pakistan is prepared for nuclear war-fighting. In this scenario, the Pakistani naval nuclear capability exists as a _third_ strike option, after having absorbed a massive retaliatory Indian second-strike in response to a Pakistani nuclear first-use which annihilates most of its cities and command chain. As far-fetched as this may be, for this to work (per Pakistani calculations), command over submarine-based nuclear weapons has to be delegated to the submarine captains. This increases the chances of rogue use — and forces India to contemplate the same grim scenario as with Pakistan's land-based tactical nuclear weapons. But here, a caveat is necessary. For such an admittedly strange war-fighting posture to work, the Pakistan Army has to trust the Pakistan Navy sufficiently to share nuclear launch authority. This, in turn, will break its monopoly as custodians of the country's crown jewels, with political consequences.
> 
> Finally, what should be made of the timing of the Babur III test? Not much. As tempting as it is to read this as a response to India's new Pakistan policy under Prime Minister Narendra Modi — and in light of the so-called surgical strikes of late October — there isn't anything about the Babur III tests that is stunningly original. Granted, it is a major development. But New Delhi is unlikely to lose sleep over it. If this was indeed an attempt at nuclear signalling, Pakistan has failed. Could the Chinese have goaded the Pakistanis — following the Agni V and IV Indian tests of December — to do it? This is possible but, again, the efficacy of such a China-Pakistan signal to India is unclear.
> 
> _The author is a fellow at the Observer Research Foundation, New Delhi and a national security columnist for_ Firstpost._ Views expressed here are personal. He tweets @AbhijnanRej_
> 
> Source : http://www.firstpost.com/india/paki...india-interpret-this-latest-move-3196456.html






like a slap on the arse



Oscar said:


> NOTAMS are compulsory, notifications to public regarding what happened on the day of the NOTAM are not.
> 
> There can be a NOTAM, we can test 7 systems. And tell the public 3 months later about only 4 of them.
> 
> Has happened before.




and probably happened this time as well....


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## AMG_12

Its super hard for Indians to swallow Pakistan's success or even anyone else's success, bunch of jealous morons mera kutta "kutta" tumhara kutta "Tommy" is their mentality. No matter how much they try to westernize, they'd still be mirasis.

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## Hassan Guy

Mrc said:


> like a slap on the arse



Gold.


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## Ultima Thule

Death Walking Terror said:


> Those Russian SLCMs are VLS launched, not from torpedo tubes.


 first VLS launch missiles goes vertical then they goes horizontal or diagonal you stupid they definately launch from torpedo tube you mentally retard expert


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## Imran Khan

Death Walking Terror said:


> Those Russian SLCMs are VLS launched, not from torpedo tubes.


subs can fire missiles from tubes VL is not must to launch missiles .

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## Fenrir

Imran Khan said:


> subs can fire missiles from tubes VL is not must to launch missiles .



In fact just last year a Norwegian Ula Class submarine, KNM Uredd, fired an IDAS anti-aircraft missile, joining Germany as the two nations to have done so:

https://navaltoday.com/2016/06/02/hnoms-uredd-first-norwegian-submarine-to-fire-idas-missile/






The Ula Class does not have vertical launch tubes, just eight 533mm torpedo tubes.





















No VLS needed, just encapsulation (or in IDAS' case a canister) to fire the missile as you would a torpedo.

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## Mrc

Subs been firing missiles from tubes before vls was conceived... tomahawk and harpoons... since 1950sss....dont waiste time on these morons

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## Eagle+Viper




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## The Eagle

Whooaaa ........ Sea of education here that even few pages back I read that water would have dragged extreme force on Babur due to fins...... I mean the high level of expertise indeed...... As I was off the opinion that fins activates/unfolds once Babur is out of water and attained a required height.... However, experts are experts so what can I say. 

Though many of friends have done well here but still, it would have been great to hear Arnab on this with all that noisy, insisting and no-logic debate and analysis. 

Seems like we are having a field day. The name is BABUR-III.

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## Penguin

Hassan Guy said:


> Because, Tomohawk is fired from a VLS
> The 533mm torpedo tube limits the Babur.


Really, how so? 

Among 533mm torpedoes a length of 5.5-6.5m (US/NATO) and 7-8m (Russia) is quite common. These weight respectively 1500-2000kg or 1750-2250kg. Russian 650mm torpedoes are 11m and weigh 4 tons.

Tomahawk
Diameter 20.4 in (0.5181 m)
Length Without booster: 18 ft 3 in (5.56 m)
Length With booster: 20 ft 6 in (6.25 m)
Weight Without booster 2,900 lb (1,300 kg)
Weight With booster 3,500 lb (1,600 kg)

Babur 
Weight <1,500 kg (payload >300 kg)
Length 6.25 m (7 m with booster)
Diameter 0.52 m

Club 3M-14E 
inertially guided land attack variant; launched from a submarine. 
basic length is 6.2 m (20 ft), with a 450 kg (990 lb) warhead. 
Its range is 300 km (190 mi). 
It has a subsonic terminal speed of 0.8 mach.

Club 3M14K 
inertial guidance land attack variant deployed by the Russian Navy. The submarine-launched weapon has 
a basic length of 6.2 m (20 ft), with a 450 kg (990 lb) warhead. 
range is 1,500–2,500 km (930–1,550 mi). 
subsonic terminal speed is Mach 0.8.

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## AUz

The Deterrent said:


> The former, but let's just say the dia problem has been solved in a fairly obvious way. You'll see soon hopefully.



Deterrent, Will we see an increase in the stated range of Shaheen-III as well once it is launched with MIRVs? Putting MIRVs on a 2750km missile without any subsequent change (-ve/+ve) in the range of the missile doesn't seem very believable.


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## Penguin

Hassan Guy said:


> ???
> No way in hell.
> China's current AIP subs implement the 533 mm torpedo tubes.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_039A_submarine
> 
> It would be crazy for the Pak navy to change from 533mm torpedoes considering it uses the DM2A4
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DM2A4
> 
> Even China's torpedoes are 533mm
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yu-6_torpedo


Just like you can fire 324mm ASW torpedoes from a 533mm using a sleeve, you could still fire 533mm torpedoes from a 650mm tube. A sleeve would be the naval equivalen of a sabot.


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## YeBeWarned

@Zaki @DESERT FIGHTER @The Eagle @Kaptaan @Basel @war&peace @Khafee @Rashid Mahmood @django @Zibago @Zarvan @AUz @Windjammer ... The world is Laughing at Pakistan for this Test ,and we are exposed once again .. for all those who can understand Hindi/Urdu Enjoy this peace of Comedy ... and one thing the Anchor say that i agree with , by the time this Video End , you all will be Laughing ..

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## Penguin

Bhupendra Singh_Cyan said:


> Can anybody tell me how this missile launched at 30-40 degrees from submarine?
> The maximum change in canister can be done is 10-15 degree and further change will completely make the submarine big in diameter which is nearly impossible in today's tech.
> Explain anyone? Trolls stay away.


Encapsulate missile launch

with YJ-82





with Exocet





with Harpoon










The DGA test fires an MdCN naval cruise missile for surface ships and submarines. The weapon is a variant of the air-launched Storm Shadow/Scalp cruise missile





Submarine horizontal launch tactom capsule
https://www.google.com/patents/US6427574



Hassan Guy said:


> Then obviously if there is no VLS, the babur-3 can't improve range that much - the 533mm torpedo tube will be holding it back.


Are you suggesting thast Tomahawks fired from torpedo tubes of Brit SSNs have lesser range than those fired by US submarine VLS? While the USN operates submarines using one or the other method....

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## Friendly

Congrats to Pakistan. Israel tested encapsulated launch technology already in 2000 at German-Dolphin class but later refined it with modified greater torpedo tubes. Instead original 533 mm now 650 mm suited for Turbo-Popeye with estimated 1500 km range and 200 kg nuclear warhead containing 6 kg Plutonium.

http://www.pbase.com/image/67350733

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## Safriz

Penguin said:


> Encapsulate missile launch
> 
> with YJ-82
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> with Exocet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> with Harpoon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The DGA test fires an MdCN naval cruise missile for surface ships and submarines. The weapon is a variant of the air-launched Storm Shadow/Scalp cruise missile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Submarine horizontal launch tactom capsule
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting thast Tomahawks fired from torpedo tubes of Brit SSNs have lesser range than those fired by US submarine VLS? While the USN operates submarines using one or the other method....


The ISPR press release also mentioned "Independent underwater propulsion " system with Babur SLCM. 
Any comments on that?


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## Thorough Pro

Monday, January 9th Pakistan proved it's commitment, dedication, and technical prowess, since then Indians are busy proving how fucking retarded they really are.

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## Penguin

@ShoutB

"Launching missiles from torpedo tube and calling it secpnd strike is so shameful."
Then the Israeli navy is also shamefull. And to the extent that USN and Russian Navy rely heavily on tube launched cruisemissiles (many of which are or can be nuclear armed), this is also a silly remark.

"For 1 second even if i believe that its launched from sub. Then its diving up submarine , nose up, and launching this missile from torpedo tube." 

See my posts on (or look up) "encapsulated missile launch". The submarine doesn't 'nose up' for launching missile from torped tube.

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## Safriz

Penguin said:


> @ShoutB
> 
> "Launching missiles from torpedo tube and calling it secpnd strike is so shameful."
> Then the Israeli navy is also shamefull. And to the extent that USN and Russian Navy rely heavily on tube launched cruisemissiles (many of which are or can be nuclear armed), this is also a silly remark.
> 
> "For 1 second even if i believe that its launched from sub. Then its diving up submarine , nose up, and launching this missile from torpedo tube."
> 
> See my posts on (or look up) "encapsulated missile launch". The submarine doesn't 'nose up' for launching missile from torped tube.


The ISPR video has no tug boats in sight, which would be there if pontoon was used for the launch as pontoons need tugs to move and remain in place. 
That itself is evidence that it was a submarine launch not a Pontoon launch


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## Friendly

شاھین میزایل said:


> Independent underwater propulsion



Would mean additional security for boat and crew.

Short summary of capable countries.

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Submarine-launched cruise missile&item_type=topic


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## Penguin

شاھین میزایل said:


> The ISPR press release also mentioned "Independent underwater propulsion " system with Babur SLCM.
> Any comments on that?


Sm-39 Exocet:
"Housed in a water-tight, highly resistant, *propelled *and guided underwater vehicle, the aerial missile is ejected as soon as it breaks the surface, to ensure a very low culmination altitude. It then rapidly homes into the target at sea skimming level: it uses an inertial navigation system followed by autonomous terminal guidance from an active RF seeker."
http://www.mbda-systems.com/exocet-solution/exocet-sm-39/












This can be used for other (kinds of) missiles too e.g. Mica anti-air missile.









Similarly Harpoon UGM version: encapsulated










You see there is a difference between Exocet and Harpoon as to when the missile leaves its capsule.

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## Mrc

شاھین میزایل said:


> The ISPR video has no tug boats in sight, which would be there if pontoon was used for the launch as pontoons need tugs to move and remain in place.
> That itself is evidence that it was a submarine launch not a Pontoon launch




Whole world seems to b educating an illeterate randian.... and he does not want to learn...i m suspecting he is the expert from times now video

Good observation by the way about tug boat


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## Penguin

شاھین میزایل said:


> The ISPR video has no tug boats in sight, which would be there if pontoon was used for the launch as pontoons need tugs to move and remain in place.
> That itself is evidence that it was a submarine launch not a Pontoon launch


You could anchor a pontoon.... or have it kept in position dynamically.

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## The Eagle

Starlord said:


> @Zaki @DESERT FIGHTER @The Eagle @Kaptaan @Basel @war&peace @Khafee @Rashid Mahmood @django @Zibago @Zarvan @AUz @Windjammer ... The world is Laughing at Pakistan for this Test ,and we are exposed once again .. for all those who can understand Hindi/Urdu Enjoy this peace of Comedy ... and one thing the Anchor say that i agree with , by the time this Video End , you all will be Laughing ..



Simply WOW..... These are same experts that lastly showed JF-17 on their defence day poster with an underbelly Indian flag as an Indian A/C so what to expect. Also, the same experts are not even aware of such horizontal/ encapsulated launch. The difference of colour is due to light effect and camera quality as well. Experts who actually calculate the speed through a shortened video which is shared merely for reference and doesn't contain much detail. However, the paid experts are actually propagating to have a bit of details to read the tech. They couldn't believe in another video, a CM could actually be filmed and video can be recorded and for all above, the standard of comparison is because India couldn't do.

However, the message is sent and professional knows what happened. Babur-III is actually proven as top psyop weapon in test that strikes many minds.

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## Friendly

The Federation of Atomic Scientists’ explain the procedure used in the sub-launched Harpoons as follows:

“The submarine Harpoon is contained within a capsule and is called ENCAP for encapsulated. The ENCAP is the same size and general shape of a blunt nosed torpedo and is launched from submarine torpedo tubes. It has positive buoyancy (it floats), so when it is ejected from the submarine, it will rise to the surface, without power. The ENCAP consists of a nosecap, main body and afterbody. The missile is on shock isolator rails within the main body. The afterbody has fins which direct the ENCAP towards the surface at the proper angle for missile launch. Once the ENCAP breaches the surface, the nosecap is blown off by a small rocket and the missile is launched.”

http://thediplomat.com/2013/12/taiwan-acquires-submarine-launched-anti-ship-missiles/


Kongsberg encapsulated NSM

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## Penguin

INcidentally, Northrop has yet another launch method.
http://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabilities/UAVCapsuleLaunch/Pages/default.aspx
https://newwars.wordpress.com/2010/05/01/the-hybrid-missile-submarine/

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## Safriz

Penguin said:


> Sm-39 Exocet:
> "Housed in a water-tight, highly resistant, *propelled *and guided underwater vehicle, the aerial missile is ejected as soon as it breaks the surface, to ensure a very low culmination altitude. It then rapidly homes into the target at sea skimming level: it uses an inertial navigation system followed by autonomous terminal guidance from an active RF seeker."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This can be used for other (kinds of) missiles too e.g. Mica anti-air missile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Similarly Harpoon UGM version: encapsulated


So basically they meant the canister for babur. Thanks


Penguin said:


> You could anchor a pontoon.... or have it kept in position dynamically.


Possible. But a more expensive option .
Anyway the canister can be seen here. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818729911737339904

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## Penguin

Friendly said:


> The Federation of Atomic Scientists’ explain the procedure used in the sub-launched Harpoons as follows:
> 
> “The submarine Harpoon is contained within a capsule and is called ENCAP for encapsulated. The ENCAP is the same size and general shape of a blunt nosed torpedo and is launched from submarine torpedo tubes. It has positive buoyancy (it floats), so when it is ejected from the submarine, it will rise to the surface, without power. The ENCAP consists of a nosecap, main body and afterbody. The missile is on shock isolator rails within the main body. The afterbody has fins which direct the ENCAP towards the surface at the proper angle for missile launch. Once the ENCAP breaches the surface, the nosecap is blown off by a small rocket and the missile is launched.”
> 
> http://thediplomat.com/2013/12/taiwan-acquires-submarine-launched-anti-ship-missiles/



Hence the difference between Exocet and Harpoon capsules: that of Exocet is propelled and leaves the water befoare Exocet is started, that of Harpoon isn't and that missile launched as the capsule is are the surface.

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## Friendly

Penguin said:


> Northrop has yet another launch method.



Yes. Greater subs have vertical launch tubes. Pakistan subs have vertical tubes.



Penguin said:


> Exocet is propelled



is it gas pressure propelled ?


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## YeBeWarned

The Eagle said:


> Simply WOW..... These are same experts that lastly showed JF-17 on their defence day poster with an underbelly Indian flag as an Indian A/C so what to expect. Also, the same experts are not even aware of such horizontal/ encapsulated launch. The difference of colour is due to light effect and camera quality as well. Experts who actually calculate the speed through a shortened video which is shared merely for reference and doesn't contain much detail. However, the paid experts are actually propagating to have a bit of details to read the tech. They couldn't believe in another video, a CM could actually be filmed and video can be recorded and for all above, the standard of comparison is because India couldn't do.
> 
> However, the message is sent and professional knows what happened. Babur-III is actually proven as top psyop weapon in test that strikes many minds.



yeah , but the Video must have given you a good laugh bro , and you might now feel more sorry for these Indians haha

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## Penguin

Friendly said:


> Yes. Greater subs have vertical launch tubes. Pakistan subs have vertical tubes.


Yes?


Friendly said:


> is it gas pressure propelled ?


I have no idea.

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## Friendly

Found a technical explanation :

Actually, the submerged portion of the launch is on a column of compressed air, which gives enough boost to cut through about 150 feet of water before breaching the surface, where the rocket motors ignite.

The air is compressed by a small, contained explosion, something like the explosion in the cylinder of a gasoline powered automobile, but in this cases uses a column of super heated steam.

The inside of the missile tube is dry. After the outer hatch lifts away, a seal at the top of the tube is blasted away by a small charge. In a split second, before water can flood the tube, the shot of compressed air boosts the missile away from the sub. The momentum is sufficient to push the missile to the surface. Inside the missile, when sensors detect deceleration, the rocket motors ignite.
That gets us out of the water - but what happens next?

If you watch enough missile launches, you'll notice that many times the missile appears to be doing a bit of a dance before it finally flies true. That's owed to the uncertainty of launch conditions; sea currents, wind, variances in the column of compressed air, etc. In the equipment section of the missile, inertial controls detect the hull's deviation from course, and send correcting pulses to the TVC (thrust vector control) which steers the missile by changing the angle of thrust exhaust from the gimbaled motors.

Once on steady flight, an onboard camera starts looking for a certain star to use as a point of reference for celestial navigation -same principle as mariners used centuries ago. Once locked onto the star, corrections are made as required to keep the missile on course. Perhaps curiously, while GPS systems are carried on some vehicles, they are not part of the guidance package, for the simple reason that the GPS system, itself, might be compromised or out of service in the event of hostilities. Their purpose, where used, is to verify accuracy and refine accuracy of the other guidance instruments.

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## Pandora

I have never seen indians so disoriented and dumb as i have seen them after launch of Babur 3. Is this the nation which claims to be a super power by 2030? You loosers cant even swallow achievements of Pakistan yet you try compete with like of China and US. 

BC even we launch Babur 3 up your arse hole you will still try to prove it fake.

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## The Deterrent

AUz said:


> Deterrent, Will we see an increase in the stated range of Shaheen-III as well once it is launched with MIRVs? Putting MIRVs on a 2750km missile without any subsequent change (-ve/+ve) in the range of the missile doesn't seem very believable.


No. You can believe whatever you please to, but that is how it is going to be. Expect negative changes as well.



Friendly said:


> Found a technical explanation :
> 
> Actually, the submerged portion of the launch is on a column of compressed air, which gives enough boost to cut through about 150 feet of water before breaching the surface, where the rocket motors ignite.
> 
> The air is compressed by a small, contained explosion, something like the explosion in the cylinder of a gasoline powered automobile, but in this cases uses a column of super heated steam.
> 
> The inside of the missile tube is dry. After the outer hatch lifts away, a seal at the top of the tube is blasted away by a small charge. In a split second, before water can flood the tube, the shot of compressed air boosts the missile away from the sub. The momentum is sufficient to push the missile to the surface. Inside the missile, when sensors detect deceleration, the rocket motors ignite.
> That gets us out of the water - but what happens next?
> 
> If you watch enough missile launches, you'll notice that many times the missile appears to be doing a bit of a dance before it finally flies true. That's owed to the uncertainty of launch conditions; sea currents, wind, variances in the column of compressed air, etc. In the equipment section of the missile, inertial controls detect the hull's deviation from course, and send correcting pulses to the TVC (thrust vector control) which steers the missile by changing the angle of thrust exhaust from the gimbaled motors.
> 
> Once on steady flight, an onboard camera starts looking for a certain star to use as a point of reference for celestial navigation -same principle as mariners used centuries ago. Once locked onto the star, corrections are made as required to keep the missile on course. Perhaps curiously, while GPS systems are carried on some vehicles, they are not part of the guidance package, for the simple reason that the GPS system, itself, might be compromised or out of service in the event of hostilities. Their purpose, where used, is to verify accuracy and refine accuracy of the other guidance instruments.


Just FYI, what you're referring to here is an SLBM launch.


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## Super Falcon

From which sub Pak currently don't have any capable sub to handle missiles


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## Friendly

The Deterrent said:


> Just FYI, what you're referring to here is an SLBM launch.



Thank you. It was interesting to discuss the possible subsea launch scenarios.


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## Rashid Mahmood

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> douchebag @Penguin @gambit @Rashid Mahmood @TaimiKhan @Oscar @The Deterrent have explained it on previous pages.. i can understand ur butthurt though



No use in debating with ppl who have no idea of anything.

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## TaimiKhan

Friendly said:


> Thank you. It was interesting to discuss the possible subsea launch scenarios.



See the video in this link and it will explain how things work.

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## Rashid Mahmood

The Eagle said:


> Whooaaa ........ Sea of education here that even few pages back I read that water would have dragged extreme force on Babur due to fins...... I mean the high level of expertise indeed...... As I was off the opinion that fins activates/unfolds once Babur is out of water and attained a required height.... However, experts are experts so what can I say.
> 
> Though many of friends have done well here but still, it would have been great to hear Arnab on this with all that noisy, insisting and no-logic debate and analysis.
> 
> Seems like we are having a field day. The name is BABUR-III.



Most of these "experts" haven't seen a submarine or a missile in real, 
and the only water they have ever seen is probably a community swimming pool.

So instead of wasting time in arguing with these "experts", we should focus on a healthy discussion among ppl who actually know what they are talking about.

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## HRK

Zarvan said:


> By the way is it first time that they have shown a Missile hitting its target or they have shown even before ????????????



1- early days video of shaheen-1 (now no more available)
2- early test video of Nasr .....


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

smuhs1 said:


> I have never seen indians so disoriented and dumb as i have seen them after launch of Babur 3. Is this the nation which claims to be a super power by 2030? You loosers cant even swallow achievements of Pakistan yet you try compete with like of China and US.
> 
> BC even we launch Babur 3 up your arse hole you will still try to prove it fake.


What else do you expect??!?

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## Safriz

HRK said:


> 1- early days video of shaheen-1 (now no more available)
> 2- early test video of Nasr .....


There is one...here.

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## graphican

XiNiX said:


> 10 Years !
> Your Patience...is Outstanding !
> 
> 
> 
> Provided the Launch Platform was Docked at the Coast !
> Quite contradictory is the fact that Nuclear Subs ( in Nuclear Role) tend to stay as far as possible !



Even if Submarine is 200KM deeper in the ocean, that available 500 is more than enough to target every vital asset around the indian coastline. More importantly, Babur-III eliminated advantage of "depth" India used to enjoy. Now even the deepest corner of India is as exposed as bordering territory with Pakistan. Now that is a big change it the game.


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## atya

All throughout the thread....you have been blatantly rude. I don't know much about missile tech and radars but knowledge should make you more humble, not arrogant.

Brother, can you send me a link to your development community. The conversation has been interesting and I wouldn't mind finding out a little more.


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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Very happy to see one more nail in the coffin of delusional nemesis's hegemonic dreams.

One more nail in the coffin of war by design by the sick minds. Pak has made war just more impossible with this test.

This is more importantly one giant step in the direction of Pak becoming a South West Asian regional power of global consequence.

PNS can now protect CPEC from deep in the Afro-Asian Ocean. Well done!

Time to focus on the Pak economy and soical development. Anything less than 3Trillion economy in a couple of decades is unacceptable.

All the very best. 

This Fake Missile is truly a one more gaurantee for Peace.

Pak, please, keep Faking such developments....but never in the economy!

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## ahsanhaider

Chinese Media full Report on Missile

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## cabatli_53

Youtube has been fulled with Indian "fake" news broadcast videos. It seems the reality of Babur-3 and many other secret missile development projects(!) make them worried much. To neutralize the deterrence of Pakistani Babur family missile reality over the public, They need to spread "fake" stories all around but They also know that Babur-2/3 missiles on land and naval platform is a big headache to anyone acting hostile against nuclear Pakistan. It is not important who they are. That's all about protecting the benefit of own nation... Next step should certainly be some defensive assets such as SAM and Radars.

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## Dalit

cabatli_53 said:


> Youtube has fulled with Indian "fake" news broadcast videos. It seems the reality of Babur-3 and many other secret missile development projects(!) make them worried much. To neutralize the deterrence of Pakistani Babur family missile reality over the public, They need to spread "fake" stories all around but They also know that Babur-2/3 missiles on land and naval platform is a big headache to anyone acting hostile against nuclear Pakistan. It is not important who they are. That's all about protecting the benefit of own nation... Next step should certainly be some defensive assets such as SAM and Radars.



Don't worry bro. We have been laughing at their denials. Their main ally the USA has slapped them in the face by acknowledging the launch. How embarrassing can it get?

Indian denial is meaningless. Most important is that Pakistan is a strong nuke triad power. A feat we have longed for a long time.

No doubt. A long range SAM system along with radars are only a matter of time. CPEC needs it and Pakistan needs it.

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## Leo~Calicratis

Penguin said:


> Nop, because the encapsulated missile itself doesn 't fire while under water. It only fires after its capsule breaches the surface. The capsule is ejected by the submarine and goes up to the surface without tapping into the power of the missile..



by saying "technically, yes" I, too, mean this 



The Eagle said:


> The statements that I read and noted a bit of information, I will ink down my observations as following. (Not my field at all). First of all, by the grace of ALLAH, we have the capability of Second Strike by Babur-III.
> 
> 
> If it was the first test then obviously we wouldn't risk one of our Sub because, there are always possibilities of technical glitches or error so Sub cannot be risked, therefore, in layman's terms, a replica like Sub (a platform representing Sub) with same style of launch, tube push, ejection is used and every bit of details and readings are noted for finalization etc purpose. As a platform, not an original Sub, is used then still the weapon be called as SLCM due to its purpose and method as well as real goal. By doing so, finally taking everything into account, the weapon become mature and can be launched from original/targeted Sub and be called operational as successful in final test hence induction.
> The weapon is being tested extensively for time to time to it's real/aimed and targeted results and once every thing is finalized/trusted after all checkups, is being tested again from original launch platform on the basis of all previous tests from replica/test platform.
> It is true that a new weapon will not be tested from original platform directly but has to reach to such stage after trials through test platform.
> As @Rashid Mahmood said, test was done almost 2 years ago, actually tells that this weapon matured through test platform during 2 years hence finally launched from original Sub hence is equal to having the capability in final stage.
> If we go by the term launched from underwater platform so it may be the same launching platform called as replica in this post, to finalize the launch, weapon, tube exit etc and then, as results are satisfactory, will again be tested from original Sub (Augosta 90B etc).
> The confusion w.r.t. launch platform will be more clear in coming days but professional and informed posters words are to be taken as credible for the moment as well by looking at accuracy of hitting the target, seems like a lot of work is already done and many readings were available from previous tests.
> @Oscar @Khafee @Rashid Mahmood @The Deterrent



in the last quarter of 2016 I read and learnt about that Pakistan's Ministry of Defense Productions been suggested by the related Senate Committee of Pakistan to assign govt. organizations to develop a "naval launch system". about what, the launch system is, wasn't mentioned in the news. though, as I am surfing in the military defense & strategic issues related arena in the web, I learnt that naval launch systems extensively relates the launching systems of the missiles & such projectiles. then I assumed that Pakistan has the missile tech for second strike but in need of an indigenous and extensive tailor made launch system which would b unilaterally integrated with Pakistan's secind strike capability. and now we saw thar Pakistan Armed Forces developing this exclusively prestigious deterrence shortly as its now needed much. in such a perspective, I believe too, Pakistan's strategic military techs developing agencies has the required technologies and capabilities to develop and manufacture nuclear propulsion submarines domestically.


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## The Eagle

Leo~Calicratis said:


> I believe too, Pakistan's strategic military techs developing agencies has the required technologies and capabilities to develop and manufacture nuclear propulsion submarines domestically



Not the complete N-Submarine initially however, a senator has raised voice for such as well.

Might help you...

https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...n-indigenous-nuclear-attack-submarine.471903/

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## Bilal Khan 777

the Peg has been put in the ground (or in water this time). More developments to follow, as Pakistan underwater ambitions come to light (and air). BR

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## YeBeWarned

cabatli_53 said:


> Youtube has been fulled with Indian "fake" news broadcast videos. It seems the reality of Babur-3 and many other secret missile development projects(!) make them worried much. To neutralize the deterrence of Pakistani Babur family missile reality over the public, They need to spread "fake" stories all around but They also know that Babur-2/3 missiles on land and naval platform is a big headache to anyone acting hostile against nuclear Pakistan. It is not important who they are. That's all about protecting the benefit of own nation... Next step should certainly be some defensive assets such as SAM and Radars.



Ignore the Indians bro.. they are just been Indians that's it . 
Milgem G Corvette And Hisar-O will Inshallah be next in list for PA/PN

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## Friendly

Starlord said:


> Milgem Corvette



Concentrate on TF-2000. Aerial Defence. Rest can be done by a swarm of Kaan-class sharks.

That will be new concept on air and sea. Swarms of vipers and sharks.

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## Riz

tipu khan sehar said:


>


This vidoe contains 4 clips not 3 those so called endin exFARTS are morons, i was having some honors for them as i was considering they have better education lvl as compare to us , but they are jokers and at the same level of our water car scientist  listen carefully to that abdul kalam colleague, missile can only be launched through vertically not horizontally like babur 3 launched, the world will be laughing at them not on us..lol

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## Bratva

To all the indians, Who were getting confused with the color of missile. Just look at this video of Ground launched test and see how Red and white Color Babur is Giving different shades of colors due to Camera angles and Poor quality of video recorded. I mean instead of engaging in useless discussions, you could have found this video






Another Prespective of Bad video quality and Camera Angles. Missiles definately looks like it was painted White and Black.. Its just that it is White and Red

[





Another Extremely bad video quality making missile launch look like its completely black. When you watch the clip further. You will come to know Missile was painted Orange and White... and in one instance in Video, The camera angle was making Cruise missile look like It is all Painted WHITE









@DESERT FIGHTER @The Eagle and All the others who engaged in this disccussion. Please use this video next time to shutup any lesser IQ being questioning Babur 3 launch and who doesnt have enough research skills to dig this video himself

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## Hassan Guy

Maybe the new submarines will be able to fire them


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## Bratva

The Deterrent said:


> I would provide you with the exact time frame, however the project is lagging behind, a lot. Delays keep popping out, but lets hope this time Pakistan goes through with it in one go (unlike Shaheen-III's multiple launch delays). This is understandable, given the complexity of the system and Pakistan's relative inexperience in this domain.



North korea is in more bad shape than us with lot less technical capability and resources . They achieved SLBM capability in like 5 year timeframe with all the shortening of Missile length with advance material while increasing the range . The recent Kim jong ill watching test standing so close to Launch site, ehich gives message to others that Leader is completely confident in the test launch success. And honestly I dont care if the BM itself was a failure, but launch sequence from inside water to outside and going upward is in itself a great achievement. Pakistan had more time at their hands. We keep hearing about MIRV since 2009-2010 and we are nowhere close in making advance Guidance package, or advance composite engine motors, advance fuel and materials to make missile more compact and short

Perhaps the north korea style work ethics has to be implemented 



The Deterrent said:


> Well its not exactly like that. India has established a diverse and concrete base for ballistic missile development in form of the Agni series. True that they probably never faced serious funding issues, but its also the technological advancement rooted in the past decade that gives them the edge.
> 
> Pakistan is working with what we have at the moment, and what we know we can do with it.
> 
> 
> Minor glitches. If a system exhibits any sort of anomaly in the critical components during pre-flight tests, the whole thing has to be called off until it is clear to go. Flight data retrieval via telemetry is absolutely essential for test flights. A systems as big and complex as that requires flawless pre-flight clearance.
> I don't know about any such event regarding Shaheen-I. The first flight was conducted in 1999.




AQ Khan in one of his Op-Ed's said that His rivals planned to launch Shaheen missile at the day Ghauri was to be test fired. ( I might have mixed up the details. It was 98). In the morning of test, he got the news about disaster occuring at Shaheen Test launch where missile exploded on launch pad and killing several people on site

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## Hassan Guy

It will be a modified design, because it will have AIP.


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## The Deterrent

Bratva said:


> North korea is in more bad shape than us with lot less technical capability and resources . They achieved SLBM capability in like 5 year timeframe with all the shortening of Missile length with advance material while increasing the range . The recent Kim jong ill watching test standing so close to Launch site, ehich gives message to others that Leader is completely confident in the test launch success. And honestly I dont care if the BM itself was a failure, but launch sequence from inside water to outside and going upward is in itself a great achievement. Pakistan had more time at their hands. We keep hearing about MIRV since 2009-2010 and we are nowhere close in making advance Guidance package, or advance composite engine motors, advance fuel and materials to make missile more compact and short
> 
> Perhaps the north korea style work ethics has to be implemented


The first thing you need for an SLBM is a vessel with wide enough VLS. North Korea manufactures their Sinpo class submarine, with 1-2 tubes for the Pukkuksong-1 SLBM. The weapon itself is liquid-fueled and steered by lattice control surfaces. You can see how credible this whole arrangement is in terms of second-strike capability.









The SLBM capability is not Pakistan's priority for the forseeable future. There are no programs for a SSBN/SSB or for any sort of SLBM. Pakistan will follow the Israeli model, and will base the second-strike capability on SLCMs.



> AQ Khan in one of his Op-Ed's said that His rivals planned to launch Shaheen missile at the day Ghauri was to be test fired. ( I might have mixed up the details. It was 98). In the morning of test, he got the news about disaster occuring at Shaheen Test launch where missile exploded on launch pad and killing several people on site


Who in his right mind, working in an organization of this stature, would 'conspire' to conduct a weapon test (an activity requiring planning for months in advance) on the same date as that of a rival organization? This claim is absolutely rubbish, nothing of this sort happened. However, partial failures did occur in the beginning, but they were rectified.
Honestly, AQ Khan has tarnished his image further by stating such things. The kind of language he uses in his 'articles' represent his mindset.

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## Zaffar Ali

well done Pakistan army! great achievement!


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## Hassan Guy

The Deterrent said:


> The first thing you need for an SLBM is a vessel with wide enough VLS. North Korea manufactures their Sinpo class submarine, with 1-2 tubes for the Pukkuksong-1 SLBM. The weapon itself is liquid-fueled and steered by lattice control surfaces. You can see how credible this whole arrangement is in terms of second-strike capability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The SLBM capability is not Pakistan's priority for the forseeable future. There are no programs for a SSBN/SSB or for any sort of SLBM. Pakistan will follow the Israeli model, and will base the second-strike capability on SLCMs.
> 
> 
> Who in his right mind, working in an organization of this stature, would 'conspire' to conduct a weapon test (an activity requiring planning for months in advance) on the same date as that of a rival organization? This claim is absolutely rubbish, nothing of this sort happened. However, partial failures did occur in the beginning, but they were rectified.
> Honestly, AQ Khan has tarnished his image further by stating such things. The kind of language he uses in his 'articles' represent his mindset.


None of Israel's enemies have an even remotely powerful Navy (That can reach their waters).
None of Israel's enemies have Nuclear weapons
None of Israel's enemies have SLBM capabilities.

Unfortunately for Pakistan, it's main enemy has all 3 of those. So the Israeli model doesn't really work in this case.

The current SLCM setup isn't too different from its purpose on land.
The Babur SLCM is used for the precision strike of a TNW against strategic *coastal* enemy military assets.

Its good for that, but when it comes to the delivery of a WMD's that can hit deep into enemy territory the SLBM is what is needed.
Even the North Korean setup works for that.

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## The Deterrent

Hassan Guy said:


> None of Israel's enemies have an even remotely powerful Navy (That can reach their waters).
> None of Israel's enemies have Nuclear weapons
> None of Israel's enemies have SLBM capabilities.
> 
> Unfortunately for Pakistan, it's main enemy has all 3 of those. So the Israeli model doesn't really work in this case.
> 
> The current SLCM setup isn't too different from its purpose on land.
> The Babur SLCM is used for the precision strike of a TNW against strategic *coastal* enemy military assets.
> 
> Its good for that, but when it comes to the delivery of a WMD's that can hit deep into enemy territory the SLBM is what is needed.
> Even the North Korean setup works for that.

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## Taimoor Khan

Starlord said:


> @Zaki @DESERT FIGHTER @The Eagle @Kaptaan @Basel @war&peace @Khafee @Rashid Mahmood @django @Zibago @Zarvan @AUz @Windjammer ... The world is Laughing at Pakistan for this Test ,and we are exposed once again .. for all those who can understand Hindi/Urdu Enjoy this peace of Comedy ... and one thing the Anchor say that i agree with , by the time this Video End , you all will be Laughing ..



F***** hillarious. 


Their whole media is going apes over some random tweet by some khathri!! Have we got some response from their establishment or they are still in state of shock?


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## YeBeWarned

Taimoor Khan said:


> F***** hillarious.
> 
> 
> Their whole media is going apes over some random tweet by some khathri!! Have we got some response from their establishment or they are still in state of shock?



Still in Denial Mode.. asking common Civilians who have not even seen a Sub in real life about what they think about the Test is Hilarious and their desperation level ..

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## Riz

Even there prithvi missile scientist claiming a missile can't be fired horizontally but only vertically from a submarine.... A big question on there so called scientists credibility


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## Incog_nito

I think Pakistan had the capability since they gained this capability with Agosta-70s and even they upgraded the Daphane class submarines to launch Exocet - Harpoon missiles from them. So, launching a nuclear or conventional capable cruise missile is not very difficult for them...

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## Hassan Guy

The Deterrent said:


>


Interesting points.

Your well reasoned arguments shall be noted.


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## razgriz19

Khafee said:


> The difference between the fuel cells.
> 
> 
> Missile tests are recorded via high speed HD cameras - 2,000~ 3,000 frames or more per second. That footage is classified, and only a few get to see.
> 
> This is why in press releases sometimes old images are recycled, because new ones in low rez are not available.



Most militaries release that footage. Pakistan military is far from creating "super high tech classified above top secret" weapon.
Russia releases videos. Even the US releases high quality videos of it's Tomahawk and many other non classified weapons they test. Babur is just like Tomahawk, it shouldn't be an issue.

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## razgriz19

90ArsalanLeo said:


> Why we need to take france in confidence its our subs we paid for it we dont owe any explanation to them



That's not how things work. Modifying an equipment without OEM's approval can void the warranty. In this case, it could force France to stop giving us spares for subs which would turn these subs into tin can within months.


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## niaz

IceCold said:


> Bhai i cant see the video. Koi or link
> 
> By the way why is the range reduced?



Subsonic cruise missiles use turbo fan jet engine but the fuel is not the normal jet fuel. Instead a specially formulated synthetic fuel with much higher heat content than the normal jet fuel is burnt. There is also usually solid fuel booster.

Range is directly related to the amount of fuel the missile can carry, heat content of the fuel and weight of the missile with the warhead. If for some reason space for fuel is reduced or total weight of the fully loaded missile is increased without additional fuel; range will be reduced.

P.S.

Supersonic & hyper sonic missiles such as Brahmos, require liquid fuel ram-jet power plant. Anyone interested in high energy fuels for the missiles, the link is:

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/ef5027746

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## Thorough Pro

That (In red) is what is wrong with this guy (|AQ Khan), there must be no "I", "ME" and "MY" in working for the country. Our political leadership played very maturely and instead of putting all the eggs in one basket, they built two separate institutions, created two teams, funded two different approaches/technologies to create healthy competition and have a second option if one doesn't work.

There (in blue) is nothing to be proud of or a reason to look down upon the other team. They were doing their job for the motherland just like he was doing his job for the country. The people who martyred there, were silent soldiers, sons of this land, who gave their lives researching, experimenting with technology that we are so proud of today. The ground work they did, the technology that they developed then, has evolved and become very advanced today and guarantees the liberty and freedom for our future generations.



Bratva said:


> AQ Khan in one of his Op-Ed's said that *His rivals* planned to launch Shaheen missile at the day Ghauri was to be test fired. ( I might have mixed up the details. It was 98). In the morning of test, he got the news about disaster occuring at Shaheen Test launch *where missile exploded on launch pad and killing several people on site*

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

razgriz19 said:


> Most militaries release that footage. Pakistan military is far from creating "super high tech classified above top secret" weapon.
> Russia releases videos. Even the US releases high quality videos of it's Tomahawk and many other non classified weapons they test. Babur is just like Tomahawk, it shouldn't be an issue.


Honestly, the issue with Pakistan is that our state owned media entities - PTV and ISPR included - haven't replaced their cameras since Musharraf took over in 1999. Literally. Look at the footage of the Pakistan Day parades, you can't even see the aerial displays or flybys. God knows, but I bet the Babur test was filmed from some guy's iPhone or a digital camera lying around in some PN boat. This is the problem. Pakistan's media relations and communications effort is bad.

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## Eagle+Viper




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## Leo~Calicratis

razgriz19 said:


> Most militaries release that footage. Pakistan military is far from creating "super high tech classified above top secret" weapon.
> Russia releases videos. Even the US releases high quality videos of it's Tomahawk and many other non classified weapons they test. Babur is just like Tomahawk, it shouldn't be an issue.


did US released any hi-res video of its HTV-2 tests!? I saw there's only one video showing a tiny thing fired from a B-52 bomber


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## The Eagle

*Pakistan Reveals Test of Submarine-Launched Missile*



> This is likely to be fully utilized onboard the forthcoming air-independent propulsion-equipped Hangor-class submarines designed by and co-produced with China.

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## Bratva

https://gfycat.com/TornGroundedDikkops

South Korea Hyunmoo-3 cruise missile test-launched from a submarine


Just to have an idea if a closeup and clear video was recorded when missile cameout, what would it had been looked like

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## WaLeEdK2

Bratva said:


> https://gfycat.com/TornGroundedDikkops
> 
> South Korea Hyunmoo-3 cruise missile test-launched from a submarine
> 
> 
> Just to have an idea if a closeup and clear video was recorded when missile cameout, what would it had been looked like


in the video released by ispr, you can see a splash in the water at the very beginning around 00:02. That must have been the canister.


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## Windjammer

Immanuel said:


> This missile 'if real', is a rather easy target for the Akash SAM, Spyder SAM etc, good luck getting through such defenses



It's not real so you can go back into hibernation, however, when you do launch any of your so called real fire crackers, make sure to wear your reading glasses as well.

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## Skywalker

Immanuel said:


> This missile 'if real', is a rather easy target for the Akash SAM, Spyder SAM etc, good luck getting through such defenses


Ok, now go back to sleep


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## Windjammer

Skywalker said:


> Ok, now go back to sleep



They surely have lost their sleep so posting useless videos to sooth their tiny egos.....


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## Immanuel

Videos show that we are more than prepared for outdated threats  and we have inducted such defenses in large numbers already, for you guys to claim some supremacy based on such a test is all but a non sincere joke


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## Techy Hassan

Stupid selection of red color flag as target in vdo.


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## Skywalker

Windjammer said:


> They surely have lost their sleep so posting useless videos to sooth their tiny egos.....


What kind of indiots they are as the name suggest sometimes they declare their own mig21 as a paf fighter aircraft or sometimes they propagate an12 as c130 and then they proudly show jf17 as their own, it's a complete sign of idiocracey at its best, there obsession towards Pakistan us not taking them any where.



Immanuel said:


> Videos show that we are more than prepared for outdated threats  and we have inducted such defenses in large numbers already, for you guys to claim some supremacy based on such a test is all but a non sincere joke


Then what to worry go Back to sleep.

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## Windjammer

Skywalker said:


> What kind of indiots they are as the name suggest sometimes they declare their own mig21 as a paf fighter aircraft or sometimes they propagate an12 as c130 and then they proudly show jf17 as their own, it's a complete sign of idiocracey at its best, there obsession towards Pakistan us not taking them any where.
> 
> 
> Then what to worry go Back to sleep.


That's the mentality of Pigeon professionals, Balloon blasters and off course Haldi wobbling warriors.

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## Areesh

Immanuel said:


> Videos show that we are more than prepared for outdated threats  and we have inducted such defenses in large numbers already, for you guys to claim some supremacy based on such a test is all but a non sincere joke



K.



Windjammer said:


> That's the mentality of Pigeon professionals, Balloon blasters and off course Haldi wobbling warriors.



And not to forget patli daal.

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## Hassan Guy

Immanuel said:


> Videos show that we are more than prepared for outdated threats  and we have inducted such defenses in large numbers already, for you guys to claim some supremacy based on such a test is all but a non sincere joke



Seems some bonds are still on fire


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## Immanuel

Windjammer said:


> It's not real so you can go back into hibernation, however, when you do launch any of your so called real fire crackers, make sure to wear your reading glasses as well.



I am not sure I have read into this incident, can you share a source for such a claim



Skywalker said:


> What kind of indiots they are as the name suggest sometimes they declare their own mig21 as a paf fighter aircraft or sometimes they propagate an12 as c130 and then they proudly show jf17 as their own, it's a complete sign of idiocracey at its best, there obsession towards Pakistan us not taking them any where.
> 
> Then what to worry go Back to sleep.



I am snoring deeply


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## Windjammer

Immanuel said:


> I am not sure I have read into this incident, can you share a source for such a claim


Be it this incident, a MiG-21 on MiG-21 kill or any other Indian self goals, you will never hear about them.
Anyways, this thread is about Pakistani missile test, not about Indian missiles or Indian fails, besides the topic has been discussed elsewhere.


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## AMG_12

Immanuel said:


> Videos show that we are more than prepared for outdated threats  and we have inducted such defenses in large numbers already, for you guys to claim some supremacy based on such a test is all but a non sincere joke


Since India has the technolgical advantage, the manpower and what not, why don't you attack Pakistan and teach us a lesson once and for all? You can destroy all the terror camps, take back Kashmir and divide Pakistan as it pleases India? But this time please, be serious. Don't chickenout.


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## Tipu7

Windjammer said:


> It's not real so you can go back into hibernation, however, when you do launch any of your so called real fire crackers, make sure to wear your reading glasses as well.


Remind me this very recent topi drama by these pathetic Indians

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## Immanuel

You guys lost 4 was with India, many of your own citizens killed because of terror that spawns from your country, some of the world's most wanted terrorists call Pak home, you're on the verge of being on a ban list from the US and we Indians are pathetic  Can't remember the last time anyone outside Pak spoke of Pak in a positive manner. No wonder Pakistani logic is going far. Delusions of grandeur.



Game.Invade said:


> Since India has the technolgical advantage, the manpower and what not, why don't you attack Pakistan and teach us a lesson once and for all? You can destroy all the terror camps, take back Kashmir and divide Pakistan as it pleases India? But this time please, be serious. Don't chickenout.



Even after 4 wars and losses you should realize by now, India won't be the one to start wars. We have no interest in the rest of Kashmir, keep it. As far as India is concerned if cross border terror pushing of militants and support for anti India groups stops, we might well recognize the LOC as an official order and call it a day. We have enough people, land and problems of our own on the long road to development.


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## Areesh

Immanuel said:


> You guys lost 4 was with India, many of your own citizens killed because of terror that spawns from your country, some of the world's most wanted terrorists call Pak home, you're on the verge of being on a ban list from the US and we Indians are pathetic  Can't remember the last time anyone outside Pak spoke of Pak in a positive manner. No wonder Pakistani logic is going far. Delusions of grandeur.
> 
> 
> 
> Even after 4 wars and losses you should realize by now, India won't be the one to start wars. We have no interest in the rest of Kashmir, keep it. As far as India is concerned if cross border terror pushing of militants and support for anti India groups stops, we might well recognize the LOC as an official order and call it a day. We have enough people, land and problems of our own on the long road to development.



Typical rants of a Bharati troll.

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## JOEY TRIBIANI

Immanuel said:


> Videos show that we are more than prepared for outdated threats  and we have inducted such defenses in large numbers already, for you guys to claim some supremacy based on such a test is all but a non sincere joke


Outdated junk lolz . you should ask Ecuador
About the performance of indian made stuff .


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## Windjammer

Immanuel said:


> You guys lost 4 was with India,



According to incredible Indian history which is as credible as Indians inventing the square wheel.


> many of your own citizens killed because of terror that spawns from your country,


And those who carried out ethnic cleansing in Punjab or Gujarat genocide were obviously Dalits so they can't be called Indians.


> = some of the world's most wanted terrorists call Pak home,


Although once Modi was refused American visa and once OBL was the darling of US but like Modi is an Indian , Osama was never a Pakistani citizen.


> you're on the verge of being on a ban list from the US and we Indians are pathetic


We know the Indians have the habit of washing soap before hands but so far your prayers for Pakistan being declared a failed state etc seems to have fallen on deaf ears, seems your own evils are making matters worse for you.


> Can't remember the last time anyone outside Pak spoke of Pak in a positive manner. No wonder Pakistani logic is going far. Delusions of grandeur.


Well since your Bharti bubble only extends up to say Bangladesh and Afghanistan, hence you can be forgiven for living the dream but your 56'' Neta has certainly shrunk to a poor state from his mission isolation Pakistan.
However an Indians passion on PDF is understandable and proven every time.

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