# Indias Subversive Role in Afghanistan



## Kompromat

*Indias Subversive Role in Afghanistan*

Written by Sajjad Shaukat 
Sunday, 22 July 2012 17:38








*During his trip to India and Kabul in June, this year, by reviving old blame game, US Defence Secretary of State, Leon Panetta repeatedly stated that drone attacks would continue on safe havens of terrorists in Pakistan, while accusing the Haqqani network for some of the deadliest attacks in Afghanistan.*

On the other side, Leon Panetta encouraged India to take a more active role in Afghanistan as most foreign combat troops leave in 2014. India which has already invested billion of dollars in Afghanistan, signed a wide-ranging strategic agreement with that country on October 5, 2011 also includes to help train Afghan security forces.

While taking note of Indias subversive role in Afghanistan, US Republican Senator John McCain reminded the Obama administration that encouraging India to take a more active role in Afghanistan, while simultaneously criticising Pakistan could be a recipe for disaster.

In fact, since the US-led NATO forces occupied Afghanistan, stiff resistance of the Taliban militants which created unending lawlessness in the country has made it a most conducive place for India to play strategic game against Pakistan, China and Iran. For this purpose, New Delhi with the cooperation of the Karzai-led regime and with the tactical support of US and Israel has been obtaining its clandestine aims, while America and Israel are also doing the same.

In this respect, Indian RAW with the assistance of American CIA and Israeli Mossad has well-established its espionage network in Afghanistan. Besides, in a religious Madrassa of Wakhan, located in Afghanistan is functioning under the patronage of Indian officials. It is being used for brainwashing of very young boys who are Afghans, Uzbeks and Tajiks including so-called Indian Muslims. Posing themselves as Taliban, they have joined the ranks and files of the Pakistani Taliban. In this context, Indias several secret training camps are also present in Afghanistan from where highly trained militants, equipped with sophisticated weapons are being sent to Pakistans various places to conduct target killings, bomb blasts, suicide attacks, assaults on civil and military installations and forced abductions including ethnic and sectarian violence regularly.

In this connection, on June 28, the released Indian spy from Pakistani jail, Surjeet Singh openly admitted by saying, I was a RAW agent. Regarding another Indian spy who is in Lahore jail, Surjeet Singh revealed, Sarabjit Singh is a terrorist and terrorists are not released. However, both the spies were responsible for the string of blasts in Faisalabad, Lahore, and Multan in 1990 in which several innocent people were killed.

Nevertheless, by manipulating American ambivalent approach and duplicity in relation to Pakistan, China, Iran and even Afghanistan, New Delhi has been extracting full benefits. In this context, US which signed a nuclear deal with India in 2008, intends to make India a great power of Asia to counterbalance China by separating Pakistans province of Balochistan due to its geo-strategic location with Gwadar seaport including mineral resources. For these purposes, RAW is assisting CIA and Mossad which have also been supporting subversive acts in Balochistan through Baloch separatist elements like Balochistan Liberation Army (BLA) and another group, Jundollah (Gods soldiers). These secret agencies are also backing similar acts of sabotage in the Iranian Sistan-Baluchistan including Tibetan regions of China. In this context, Tehran had directly accused CIA and other similar agencies for funding of terrorist attacks, while diverting the attention of Iran towards Islamabad through secret propaganda.

It is noteworthy that in the recent years, several persons died in the terror-incidents and ethnic riots occurred in various regions of Chinas Xinjiang-the largely populated Muslim province. For all the incidents, India blamed Pakistani militants for supporting the insurgency in order to deteriorate Sino-Pak ties. In fact, New Delhi which had given shelter to the ex-Tibetan spiritual leader, Dalai Lama and his militants has been playing a key role in backing upsurge in the Tibetan areas of China.

During the Swat and Malakand military operations, while hinting towards India, the former Maj-Gen Athar Abbas had revealed in on of the press briefings that 400 foreigners and Afghans, having connections with the enemy countries were captured along with huge caches of sophisticated weapons, made of India and AmericaAfghan fighters had been infiltrated into Pakistan with the help of some external agencies bordering Afghanistan. Recently, Interior Affairs Adviser Rehman Malik also expressed similar thoughts. Earlier, he has openly disclosed that RAW was behind terror-acts in Pakistan, especially Karachi.

Notably, RAW and Afghan Khad have increased attacks inside Afghanistan, particularly targeting American soldiers with the sole aim to revive old blame game of the US against Islamabad and Pakistans intelligence agency ISI in relation to cross-border-terrorism.

Regarding Indian activities in Afghanistan the then NATO commander, Gen. McChrystal had pointed out: Indian political and economic influence is increasing in Afghanistanis likely to exacerbate regional tensions.

It is notable that after the withdrawal of NATO troops in 2014, US has decided to maintain its six military bases in Afghanistan. Thus, America not only seeks to protect Indian influence in Afghanistan, but also control the energy resources of Central Asia as part of secret agenda against Pakistan, China, Iran and Russia.

While playing double game with each other, India wants to entrap America permanently in Afghanistan so as to achieve its secret goals by harming the US interests. India also seeks to further strengthen its grip there to get strategic depth against Pakistan.

It is of particular attention that Pakistan is the only nuclear country in the Islamic world. Therefore, India and Israel with the assistance of America are creating instability in the country. Besides, by engaging US in Afghanistan and in blame game against Pakistan in connection with safe havens of Haqqani group, both India and Israel intend to divert the attention of Washington from their own atrocities, being perpetrated on the innocent Palestinians and Kashmiris. In this regard, they have also succeeded in distracting the attention of President Obama from the solution Kashmir and Palestinian issues.

In pursuance of its sinister designs, New Delhi is silent over American losses such as cost of war on terror, amounting to 8 trillion dollars, increase in defence budget and acute financial crisis inside the US homeland.

Drug and kidnapping are some other source of Indian income in Afghanistan. According to an estimate, worlds 90% heroin is cultivated in Afghanistan. So money earned through drug-smuggling and hostage-takings is utilised in buying weapons, being sent to the foreign agents and the insurgents in Pakistan.

But militants are well-organised from Afghanistan to Somalia and from Yemen to the Indian-held Kashmir. So, if it wants to weaken Pakistan through subversive acts, different war by the insurgents will also envelop India where New Delhi has failed in controlling the wars of liberation in Kashmir and other regions including Maoists movement.

In the recent years, a number of conferences were held in order to bring stability and peace in Afghanistan before the foreign troops complete withdrawal from that country in 2014. Another major purpose was to conclude a peace deal with the Afghan militants. After the recent Tokyo conference on Afghanistan, efforts to convince Taliban for talks with the Kabul government have been increased and Pakistan has been requested to play an important task in this regard. During the recent tripartite meeting in Kabul, British Prime Minister David Cameron and Afghan President Hamid Karzai met Pakistans Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf, and reiterated Islamabads support for durable peace and stability in Afghanistan. Pakistan agreed to redouble efforts in facilitating these talks with the Afghan militants.

Particularly, US should realise that unlike India, there is a co-relationship of stability in Afghanistan and Pakistan, which is essential for American global and regional interests. In case, Indian subversive role continued in Afghanistan, the war-torn country will be thrown in an era of uncertainty and civil war. In that scenario, all the efforts of the US-led NATO and other western countries will prove fruitless. And Pakistan will not be in a position to help in bringing peace and stability in Afghanistan.

At this crucial hour, Pakistan and US are further improving their relations, after the apology of US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton for the killing of 24 Pakistani troops last September and in return securing the reopening of NATO supply lines into Afghanistan. Especially, America must remain alert as India could conduct any subversive act in Afghanistan to thwart the Pak-US new rapprochement.

Sajjad Shaukat writes on international affairs and is author of the book: US vs Islamic Militants, Invisible Balance of Power: Dangerous Shift in International Relations

Email: sajjad_logic@yahoo.com

India

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## Gandhi G in da house

Aeronaut said:


> *Indias Subversive Role in Afghanistan*
> 
> Written by Sajjad Shaukat
> Sunday, 22 July 2012 17:38
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *During his trip to India and Kabul in June, this year, by reviving old blame game, US Defence Secretary of State, Leon Panetta repeatedly stated that drone attacks would continue on safe havens of terrorists in Pakistan, while accusing the Haqqani network for some of the deadliest attacks in Afghanistan.*
> 
> On the other side, Leon Panetta encouraged India to take a more active role in Afghanistan as most foreign combat troops leave in 2014. India which has already invested billion of dollars in Afghanistan, signed a wide-ranging strategic agreement with that country on October 5, 2011 also includes to help train Afghan security forces.
> 
> While taking note of Indias subversive role in Afghanistan, US Republican Senator John McCain reminded the Obama administration that encouraging India to take a more active role in Afghanistan, while simultaneously criticising Pakistan could be a recipe for disaster.
> 
> In fact, since the US-led NATO forces occupied Afghanistan, stiff resistance of the Taliban militants which created unending lawlessness in the country has made it a most conducive place for India to play strategic game against Pakistan, China and Iran. For this purpose, New Delhi with the cooperation of the Karzai-led regime and with the tactical support of US and Israel has been obtaining its clandestine aims, while America and Israel are also doing the same.
> 
> In this respect, Indian RAW with the assistance of American CIA and Israeli Mossad has well-established its espionage network in Afghanistan. Besides, in a religious Madrassa of Wakhan, located in Afghanistan is functioning under the patronage of Indian officials. It is being used for brainwashing of very young boys who are Afghans, Uzbeks and Tajiks including so-called Indian Muslims. Posing themselves as Taliban, they have joined the ranks and files of the Pakistani Taliban. In this context, Indias several secret training camps are also present in Afghanistan from where highly trained militants, equipped with sophisticated weapons are being sent to Pakistans various places to conduct target killings, bomb blasts, suicide attacks, assaults on civil and military installations and forced abductions including ethnic and sectarian violence regularly.
> 
> In this connection, on June 28, the released Indian spy from Pakistani jail, Surjeet Singh openly admitted by saying, I was a RAW agent. Regarding another Indian spy who is in Lahore jail, Surjeet Singh revealed, Sarabjit Singh is a terrorist and terrorists are not released. However, both the spies were responsible for the string of blasts in Faisalabad, Lahore, and Multan in 1990 in which several innocent people were killed.
> 
> Nevertheless, by manipulating American ambivalent approach and duplicity in relation to Pakistan, China, Iran and even Afghanistan, New Delhi has been extracting full benefits. In this context, US which signed a nuclear deal with India in 2008, intends to make India a great power of Asia to counterbalance China by separating Pakistans province of Balochistan due to its geo-strategic location with Gwadar seaport including mineral resources. For these purposes, RAW is assisting CIA and Mossad which have also been supporting subversive acts in Balochistan through Baloch separatist elements like Balochistan Liberation Army (BLA) and another group, Jundollah (Gods soldiers). These secret agencies are also backing similar acts of sabotage in the Iranian Sistan-Baluchistan including Tibetan regions of China. In this context, Tehran had directly accused CIA and other similar agencies for funding of terrorist attacks, while diverting the attention of Iran towards Islamabad through secret propaganda.
> 
> It is noteworthy that in the recent years, several persons died in the terror-incidents and ethnic riots occurred in various regions of Chinas Xinjiang-the largely populated Muslim province. For all the incidents, India blamed Pakistani militants for supporting the insurgency in order to deteriorate Sino-Pak ties. In fact, New Delhi which had given shelter to the ex-Tibetan spiritual leader, Dalai Lama and his militants has been playing a key role in backing upsurge in the Tibetan areas of China.
> 
> During the Swat and Malakand military operations, while hinting towards India, the former Maj-Gen Athar Abbas had revealed in on of the press briefings that 400 foreigners and Afghans, having connections with the enemy countries were captured along with huge caches of sophisticated weapons, made of India and AmericaAfghan fighters had been infiltrated into Pakistan with the help of some external agencies bordering Afghanistan. Recently, Interior Affairs Adviser Rehman Malik also expressed similar thoughts. Earlier, he has openly disclosed that RAW was behind terror-acts in Pakistan, especially Karachi.
> 
> Notably, RAW and Afghan Khad have increased attacks inside Afghanistan, particularly targeting American soldiers with the sole aim to revive old blame game of the US against Islamabad and Pakistans intelligence agency ISI in relation to cross-border-terrorism.
> 
> Regarding Indian activities in Afghanistan the then NATO commander, Gen. McChrystal had pointed out: Indian political and economic influence is increasing in Afghanistanis likely to exacerbate regional tensions.
> 
> It is notable that after the withdrawal of NATO troops in 2014, US has decided to maintain its six military bases in Afghanistan. Thus, America not only seeks to protect Indian influence in Afghanistan, but also control the energy resources of Central Asia as part of secret agenda against Pakistan, China, Iran and Russia.
> 
> While playing double game with each other, India wants to entrap America permanently in Afghanistan so as to achieve its secret goals by harming the US interests. India also seeks to further strengthen its grip there to get strategic depth against Pakistan.
> 
> It is of particular attention that Pakistan is the only nuclear country in the Islamic world. Therefore, India and Israel with the assistance of America are creating instability in the country. Besides, by engaging US in Afghanistan and in blame game against Pakistan in connection with safe havens of Haqqani group, both India and Israel intend to divert the attention of Washington from their own atrocities, being perpetrated on the innocent Palestinians and Kashmiris. In this regard, they have also succeeded in distracting the attention of President Obama from the solution Kashmir and Palestinian issues.
> 
> In pursuance of its sinister designs, New Delhi is silent over American losses such as cost of war on terror, amounting to 8 trillion dollars, increase in defence budget and acute financial crisis inside the US homeland.
> 
> Drug and kidnapping are some other source of Indian income in Afghanistan. According to an estimate, worlds 90% heroin is cultivated in Afghanistan. So money earned through drug-smuggling and hostage-takings is utilised in buying weapons, being sent to the foreign agents and the insurgents in Pakistan.
> 
> But militants are well-organised from Afghanistan to Somalia and from Yemen to the Indian-held Kashmir. So, if it wants to weaken Pakistan through subversive acts, different war by the insurgents will also envelop India where New Delhi has failed in controlling the wars of liberation in Kashmir and other regions including Maoists movement.
> 
> In the recent years, a number of conferences were held in order to bring stability and peace in Afghanistan before the foreign troops complete withdrawal from that country in 2014. Another major purpose was to conclude a peace deal with the Afghan militants. After the recent Tokyo conference on Afghanistan, efforts to convince Taliban for talks with the Kabul government have been increased and Pakistan has been requested to play an important task in this regard. During the recent tripartite meeting in Kabul, British Prime Minister David Cameron and Afghan President Hamid Karzai met Pakistans Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf, and reiterated Islamabads support for durable peace and stability in Afghanistan. Pakistan agreed to redouble efforts in facilitating these talks with the Afghan militants.
> 
> Particularly, US should realise that unlike India, there is a co-relationship of stability in Afghanistan and Pakistan, which is essential for American global and regional interests. In case, Indian subversive role continued in Afghanistan, the war-torn country will be thrown in an era of uncertainty and civil war. In that scenario, all the efforts of the US-led NATO and other western countries will prove fruitless. And Pakistan will not be in a position to help in bringing peace and stability in Afghanistan.
> 
> At this crucial hour, Pakistan and US are further improving their relations, after the apology of US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton for the killing of 24 Pakistani troops last September and in return securing the reopening of NATO supply lines into Afghanistan. Especially, America must remain alert as India could conduct any subversive act in Afghanistan to thwart the Pak-US new rapprochement.
> 
> Sajjad Shaukat writes on international affairs and is author of the book: US vs Islamic Militants, Invisible Balance of Power: Dangerous Shift in International Relations
> 
> Email: sajjad_logic@yahoo.com
> 
> India



The best thing would be to ask the Afghan themselves who is carrying out subversive activities in their country.

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## ajtr

nick_indian said:


> The best thing would be to ask the Afghan themselves who is carrying out subversive activities in their country.


I think Afghan's have already answered it by attacking indians in Kabul for 3 consecutive years.Its differnt thing that the deaf rulers of delhi were not able to hear the loud dhamaka.

*2008 Indian embassy bombing in Kabul*:IA's Brigadier Ravi Datt Mehta was killed in it.


*2009 Kabul Indian embassy attack*


*February 2010 Kabul attack*


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## KRAIT

So essentially what the author is saying that RAW is more capable than expected and successful enough in fooling CIA and at the same time putting Pakistan on back foot by making circumstances that results in blaming Pakistan by US.

RAW fooling CIA, don't think so. Afghan KHAD working with RAW, possible. RAW creating hostile western front for Pakistan, can agree on that too. But there seems to be lots of exaggeration.


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## illusion8

ajtr said:


> I think Afghan's have already answered it by attacking indians in Kabul for 3 consecutive years.Its differnt thing that the deaf rulers of delhi were not able to hear the loud dhamaka.






> *2008 Indian embassy bombing in Kabul*:IA's Brigadier Ravi Datt Mehta was killed in it.
> 
> *2009 Kabul Indian embassy attack*
> 
> *February 2010 Kabul attack*



Taliban claims responsibility for suicide attack that left 17 dead and 63 wounded in Kabul.
Afghan blast targets Indian embassy - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English

Pakistanis Aided Attack in Kabul, U.S. Officials Say
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/01/world/asia/01pstan.html?_r=0

Taliban Claims Responsibility For Kabul Attacks
Taliban Claims Responsibility For Kabul Attacks : NPR

Taliban attack everybody including Pakistani's, Afghan's, Chinese, NATO, Russians, Iranians, they will attack you too if you go to Afghanistan, how does that become Afghan's answer to India?

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## Yogi

ajtr said:


> I think Afghan's have already answered it by attacking indians in Kabul for 3 consecutive years.Its differnt thing that the deaf rulers of delhi were not able to hear the loud dhamaka.
> 
> *2008 Indian embassy bombing in Kabul*:IA's Brigadier Ravi Datt Mehta was killed in it.
> 
> 
> *2009 Kabul Indian embassy attack*
> 
> 
> *February 2010 Kabul attack*



By ur logic if i start posting Taliban n other Afghan attacks on Pak it'll become a never ending list...


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## ajtr

illusion8 said:


> Taliban claims responsibility for suicide attack that left 17 dead and 63 wounded in Kabul.
> Afghan blast targets Indian embassy - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English
> 
> Pakistanis Aided Attack in Kabul, U.S. Officials Say
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/01/world/asia/01pstan.html?_r=0
> 
> Taliban Claims Responsibility For Kabul Attacks
> Taliban Claims Responsibility For Kabul Attacks : NPR
> 
> Taliban attack everybody including Pakistani's, Afghan's, Chinese, NATO, Russians, Iranians too, they will attack you too if you go to Afghanistan, how does that become Afghan's answer to India?


Coz taliban are Afghans.



Yogi said:


> By ur logic if i start posting Taliban n other Afghan attacks on Pak it'll become a never ending list...


Good taliban are afghanistani taliban which attack only foreign occupiers on their land in afganistan.Bad taliban are fake taliban like TTP.they are pakistanis not the afghanistanis who attack pakistan citizens with in pakistan.


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## Kloitra

ajtr said:


> Coz taliban are Afghans.



That doesn`t mean that they represent all Afgans. Or the Afgans working with Indians any less "Afgans" than the attacking ones!

Also, the 2 years with no attack indicate they are accepting us, don`t they..

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## ajtr

KRAIT said:


> So essentially what the author is saying that RAW is more capable than expected and successful enough in fooling CIA and at the same time putting Pakistan on back foot by making circumstances that results in blaming Pakistan by US.
> 
> RAW fooling CIA, don't think so. Afghan KHAD working with RAW, possible. RAW creating hostile western front for Pakistan, can agree on that too. But there seems to be lots of exaggeration.


Nope.you read it wrong.Basically writer is saying that RAW is too clever by half trying very hard to fool CIA and ISI in order to introduce an element of doubt between the two old allies but its unable to do it even after trying very hard.Instead ISI is able to make fool of RAW back home in india when RAW declared three Lahore business men as LeT terrorist who have entered mumbai..............

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## illusion8

ajtr said:


> Coz taliban are Afghans.
> 
> Good taliban are afghanistani taliban which attack only foreign occupiers on their land in afganistan.Bad taliban are fake taliban like TTP.they are pakistanis not the afghanistanis who attack pakistan citizens with in pakistan.



 All Taliban are the same, they are the true Muslim and for them every Pakistani who is not a Talibani is as Kafir as anybody else and so they say they have a right to attack them and they are doing it too. 

*I don't see how Taliban represent Afghan's*. Taliban are made up of fighters like Uzbeks, Chechen, African, Arabian, Pakistani, Egyptian, Afghans etc etc. They represent an extreme Islamic ideology. They view ISAF occupation of Afghanistan as foreign invasion over Muslim land. They attack Pakistan because Pakistan supports this occupation.

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## Kompromat

Its India sitting in our neighbor's house not Pakistan sitting in India's, that makes India an adversary.

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## ajtr

Kloitra said:


> That doesn`t mean that they represent all Afgans. Or the Afgans working with Indians any less "Afgans" than the attacking ones!
> 
> Also, the 2 years with no attack indicate they are accepting us, don`t they..


Doesnt matter those who are against them are only NA people.otherwise taliban still control 90% of afghanistan.


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## Agnostic_Indian

Aeronaut said:


> Its India sitting in our neighbor's house not Pakistan sitting in India's, that makes India an adversary.



it's their house, and they welcome us and appreciate our help.

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## illusion8

ajtr said:


> Doesnt matter those who are against them are only NA people.otherwise *taliban still control 90% of afghanistan*.



That's BS.

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## Kloitra

illusion8 said:


> That's BS.



Anything goes that suits her!

Also, since attacks on Indians have stopped, does it means they have accepted us?! BTW, all the attacks on Indians in Afghanistan were blamed on Pakistan, by international community. Its hard to prove they were done by Afgani Taliban..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/02/AR2010030202427.html


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## ajtr

For all indian following tells a different story of afghans love for india..They surely loved india thats why kept IC-814 passenger as their guests in kandhar.


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## Yogi

ajtr said:


> Coz taliban are Afghans.
> 
> Good taliban are afghanistani taliban which attack only foreign occupiers on their land in afganistan.Bad taliban are fake taliban like TTP.they are pakistanis not the afghanistanis who attack pakistan citizens with in pakistan.



Taliban is a Afghan terror group that all....

Good Taliban n Bad Taliban type of words r used by terrorist aficinados like urself n r the sole reason of talibans continuous survival n killing of innocent people....

First u urself say Taliban r Afghans so being Good Taliban or Bad Taliban doesn't make them less Afghan...


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## illusion8

ajtr said:


> *For all indian following tells a different story of afghans love for india..They surely loved india thats why kept IC-814 passenger as their guests in kandhar.*



The plane was hijacked not by Afghans or Taliban but you know who right, and he is still roaming around free in Pakistan, The plane landed in Pakistan first then was diverted to Afghanistan. The Taliban facilitated the release of the plane after the ransom was paid.

In retaliation do I have to post what the Taliban do daily in Pakistan?

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## karan.1970

ajtr said:


> For all indian following tells a different story of afghans love for india..They surely loved india thats why kept IC-814 passenger as their guests in kandhar.



Grasping at straws now.. Are we ? By your logic we dont need to go back too far to see Afghan's love for Pakistan.. Pakistani border checkposts on the Durand line get to see that love quite frequently these days.. They give a whole new meaning to the term "Loving you to death "

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## Kompromat

Yogi said:


> Taliban is a Afghan terror group that all....
> 
> Good Taliban n Bad Taliban type of words r used by terrorist aficinados like urself n r the sole reason of talibans continuous survival n killing of innocent people....
> 
> First u urself say Taliban r Afghans so being Good Taliban or Bad Taliban doesn't make them less Afghan...



No one describes Afghan Taliban as terrorists, not even westerners. They are a bunch doing what they have done for 1000s of years.




Mod-Edit: *Anyone found to be de-railing the tread will get a direct ban.*

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## ajtr

Yogi said:


> Taliban is a Afghan terror group that all....
> 
> *Good Taliban n Bad Taliban type of words r used by terrorist aficinados like urself* n r the sole reason of talibans continuous survival n killing of innocent people....
> 
> First u urself say Taliban r Afghans so being Good Taliban or Bad Taliban doesn't make them less Afghan...


Nope Good taliban and bad taliban phrases were made popular my your master USA whom indians support/defend like loyal slaves here on pdf and everywhere.



karan.1970 said:


> Grasping at straws now.. Are we ? By your logic we dont need to go back too far to see Afghan's love for Pakistan.. Pakistani border checkposts on the Durand line get to see that love quite frequently these days.. They give a whole new meaning to the term "Loving you to death "


nope just reminding gullible indians like honourable yourself about the Afghan khatirdaari/mehmaan nawazi/love and affection indians got.

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## Kloitra

ajtr said:


> For all indian following tells a different story of afghans love for india..They surely loved india thats why kept IC-814 passenger as their guests in kandhar.



No one denies that the Taliban (then governing Afghanistan) and some militant groups had close ties.
But how much is the acceptance of Taliban in Afghanistan. It is nothing more than a terror group forcing the country to live in stone age, created by external forces with a sole purpose of fighting the foreign power (USSR). Ironically, it is still doing its job!

The common Afghan people who want no blood shed, want development, have very well accepted the Indians.


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## illusion8

ajtr said:


> Nope Good taliban and bad taliban phrases were made popular my your master USA whom indians support/defend like loyal slaves here on pdf and everywhere.



 what an idiot!, the US did not call Afghan taliban as the good one and TTP as the bad one. It's you people who do that.


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## IndoCarib

Some people can not digest the goodwill India has generated in Afghanistan over the last few years
*
"Our Good Friend and Cousin": India in Afghanistan*

With more than US$2 billion pledged since 2001, India is today the by far largest regional donor in Afghanistan and the fifth largest in the world. India has refused to contribute troops in Afghanistan, and has instead taken a soft approach focusing on aid and development.

*Delhi has funded four major infrastructure projects in Afghanistan: already completed are the Delaram-Zaranj highway, which links Iran to the Garland ring road highway that connects most major Afghan cities; and a 442 km power line connecting Kabul to Uzbekistan, which has given the capital 24-hour electricity supply for the first time in years. Still pending are the Kabul parliament building, and the rebuilding of the Salma Dam in Herat province, which will provide electricity and irrigation in western Afghanistan.
*
Beyond the large infrastructure projects, Indias investment in Afghanistan also extends to food aid, rural development projects and healthcare. Thousands of Afghan students have been given scholarships to study in India. India is also one of Afghanistans major trading partners, and the flow of goods has been strengthened by a Preferential Trade Agreement signed in 2003. In April this year, the two governments announced a framework agreement on Indian investment in Afghanistans ore industry, and Indian companies have been given the mining rights to the Hajigak iron ore deposits, estimated to hold 1.8 billion tonnes of ore. Afghanistans largely untapped mineral wealth is thought to be worth some US$3 trillion, and is often talked of as key to ensuring the countrys economy. On a recent visit to Delhi, Afghan Foreign Minister Zalmai Rassoul expressed hope that the ore agreements showed that Indian involvement in Afghanistan was shifting from aid to investment.

From talking to ordinary Afghans around the country, it becomes clear that Delhis soft power approach has generated much goodwill. *India consistently ranks highest in opinion polls of countries Afghans have the best perception of, while Pakistan usually takes the bottom place.* *It is also difficult to miss the influence of Indian culture in the country - Bollywood movies are popular in cinema halls and on the black market, while the TVs in the Kabul Airport lounge show Indian soap operas on repeat.
*
"Our Good Friend and Cousin": India in Afghanistan / ISN

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## illusion8

ajtr said:


> Nope Good taliban and bad taliban phrases were made popular my your master USA whom indians support/defend like loyal slaves here on pdf and everywhere.
> 
> *nope just reminding gullible indians like honourable yourself about the Afghan khatirdaari/mehmaan nawazi/love and affection indians got.*



We very well know who orchestrated those attacks in the guise of the Taliban.


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## Yogi

ajtr said:


> Nope Good taliban and bad taliban phrases were made popular my your master USA whom indians support/defend like loyal slaves here on pdf and everywhere.



Its the Pakistanis who have been serving US interests in South Asia since their independence n is still serving the US interests not India, if u have forgotten then let me remind u its Pak Govt. which allows transit to Afghanistan n ever heard of drone attacks....

@Aeronaut 
If Pak authorities have so much of proof against Indian run terror camps in Afghan then why isn't ur govt. Showing these evidence to international community....

I mean why don't u guys raise this issue at international platforms like UN or even GCC...


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## manojb

ajtr said:


> Coz taliban are Afghans.
> 
> Good taliban are afghanistani taliban which attack only foreign occupiers on their land in afganistan.Bad taliban are fake taliban like TTP.they are pakistanis not the afghanistanis who attack pakistan citizens with in pakistan.



Why not good taliban attack bad taliban? Like in movie good guy attack bad guy!!


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## Asskicker

illusion8 said:


> That's BS.



What else do you expect from her/him(?)....?


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## Paan Singh

ajtr said:


> For all indian following tells a different story of afghans love for india..They surely loved india thats why kept IC-814 passenger as their guests in kandhar.



Taliban have never been pro india where as northern alliance did...

and taliban is n was paksitan proxy to rule A-stan..

Is this hard to understand?


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## Asskicker

illusion8 said:


> The plane was hijacked not by Afghans or Taliban but you know who right, and he is still roaming around free in Pakistan, The plane landed in Pakistan first then was diverted to Afghanistan. The Taliban facilitated the release of the plane after the ransom was paid.
> 
> In retaliation do I have to post what the Taliban do daily in Pakistan?



No no she might hang herself then


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## Paan Singh

ajtr said:


> Doesnt matter those who are against them are only NA people.otherwise *taliban still control 90% of afghanistan*.



I even asked this to afgans directly and they laughed on me..

Talibunies mostly lives like maoist lives in india


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## Kompromat

TeriShirtDaButton said:


> Taliban have never been pro india where as northern alliance did...
> 
> and taliban is n was paksitan proxy to rule A-stan..
> 
> Is this hard to understand?



One year, it will all come back to papa.

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## Paan Singh

Aeronaut said:


> One year, it will all come back to papa.



sorry sir....ur myth will be shattered ..just wait till 2014 ..

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## FaujHistorian

Typical Desi brawl. And shameful at it. Blaiming each others and their uncle for the bad stuff in the neighborhood. 


As a Pakistani I'll talk about the OP first. then perhaps mention where Indian posters get it wrong. utterly wrong. Here is a very high level view of the role each of the party is playing. 

1. Afghanis: Blame or credit for anything that goes on in their country, should go to Afghans. They are majority in their country. USA, Pakistan, India, Russia can only do anything in Afghanistan if an only if Afghanis are willing to help the invaders. 


2. Pakistanis: We cannot blame India, or America or CIA or RAW etc. for what goes on in Iran. Our hands are not clean. So many Pakistani civilians come on these forums and froth at their mouths about everyone else except themselves. If we as a nation are that worried about Afghanis, then why don't we send teams of science teachers, doctors, nurses and engineers to build Afghanistan. Why instead we allow despicable characters like Gul-badan (pretty boy)? Why? Pak army and civilians must be living in an era 100s of years ago when Afghan hoards could easily come down the Khyber pass and ransack Pakistani and Indian regions. That era ended when modern military techniques used by Maharaja Ranjit Singh finally glued shut any misadventure by Afghani war lords. Since then, the military capability of Punjab and KPK has increased 1000s of time while Afghans are pretty much the same as they were in 16th century, 

With this change in capabilities, Pakistan must play a constructive role in Afghanistan by educating and training them and by helping develop a stable modern country instead of relying on $tupid talibaboons. Islam clearly tells us that we must treat our neighbors with respect and with humility. And what are we doing instead?

We must remember that Afghanistan by population is the size of a large city in Pakistan. We can easily deal with them using regular forces (million man strong) instead of letting warlords f**k Afghanistan and in the process our own country is getting f***ked. 

We must change our course, we must. If not for Afghanistan, then at least for our country's sakes. India and RAW can only be there until NATO is there. They will run with their dhotis flying as soon as the goras leave. 

So we must not treat Afghanistan as if it will remain under Indian thumb forever.


3. Indians: So many posters want to show India is so goody goody Bollywoodsy-Aishvarya for the manly men Afghani. That's not the case. Indian have terrible history of supporting Afghanis on one condition, that they $hit on Pakistan at every occasion. This was the case in 1947, this was the case in 1967, and that was the case in 77, 87, 97, 07, ..... you get the point. 

The problem with such $tupid behavior is that India cannot win this war of Afghani-attrition when it has no direct route to the country. And the only viable route to send supplies is Pakistan. Thus any misadventure taken by Indians is going to cost India dearly and in the long run hurt Afghanis a lot more than what it can do to Pakistan. 

4. NATO: They made a serious mistake by not inviting Pakistan army into the allies working in Afghanistan. Bringing India into the mix meant, they lost support of a major player in the area. I mean how $tupid it is to spend 
100s of billions of dollars in Afghanistan while hoping that Pakistan will be the main supply route if they paid 2 billions a YEAR?

Afghanistan would have been easilty controlled by paying 10 billion a year to Pakistan and 2 billion to Afghanistan. 12 billion a year. That's it! 12 fing billions. 

Instead NATO destroyed their own economies (other factors are involved, but lets focus on military expenses in Afghanistan for the moment), by utterly wasting 100s of billions every year but most importantly loosing 1000s of their precious soldiers. 

NATO should have left Afghanistan in 2002 by handing over the control to a regional peace keeping force, OK may be they needed to keep 3 squadrons of fighters with few squadron each of cargo and other support planes.

NATO felt they could muscle their way through, and I am sure their approach may work in the long run, but at what cost. AT What fing cost. 



in summary: Pakistanis and Pak army have supported the wrong side so far. It is time we change our ways, and think about bringing peace in Afghanistan. That's the only way we can kick Indians out of Afghanistan. It is the only way.



peace


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## Kompromat

TeriShirtDaButton said:


> sorry sir....ur myth will be shattered ..just wait till 2014 ..



Do, you even know what i am talking about ?


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## karan21

IndoCarib said:


> Some people can not digest the goodwill India has generated in Afghanistan over the last few years
> *
> "Our Good Friend and Cousin": India in Afghanistan*
> 
> With more than US$2 billion pledged since 2001, India is today the by far largest regional donor in Afghanistan and the fifth largest in the world. India has refused to contribute troops in Afghanistan, and has instead taken a soft approach focusing on aid and development.
> 
> *Delhi has funded four major infrastructure projects in Afghanistan: already completed are the Delaram-Zaranj highway, which links Iran to the Garland ring road highway that connects most major Afghan cities; and a 442 km power line connecting Kabul to Uzbekistan, which has given the capital 24-hour electricity supply for the first time in years. Still pending are the Kabul parliament building, and the rebuilding of the Salma Dam in Herat province, which will provide electricity and irrigation in western Afghanistan.
> *
> Beyond the large infrastructure projects, Indias investment in Afghanistan also extends to food aid, rural development projects and healthcare. Thousands of Afghan students have been given scholarships to study in India. India is also one of Afghanistans major trading partners, and the flow of goods has been strengthened by a Preferential Trade Agreement signed in 2003. In April this year, the two governments announced a framework agreement on Indian investment in Afghanistans ore industry, and Indian companies have been given the mining rights to the Hajigak iron ore deposits, estimated to hold 1.8 billion tonnes of ore. Afghanistans largely untapped mineral wealth is thought to be worth some US$3 trillion, and is often talked of as key to ensuring the countrys economy. On a recent visit to Delhi, Afghan Foreign Minister Zalmai Rassoul expressed hope that the ore agreements showed that Indian involvement in Afghanistan was shifting from aid to investment.
> 
> From talking to ordinary Afghans around the country, it becomes clear that Delhis soft power approach has generated much goodwill. *India consistently ranks highest in opinion polls of countries Afghans have the best perception of, while Pakistan usually takes the bottom place.* *It is also difficult to miss the influence of Indian culture in the country - Bollywood movies are popular in cinema halls and on the black market, while the TVs in the Kabul Airport lounge show Indian soap operas on repeat.
> *
> "Our Good Friend and Cousin": India in Afghanistan / ISN



Man Indian afghan policy is definitely bearing fruits. We have won their hearts. Even though delhi doesnt have 24 hr electricity but we are going all out to make sure kabul does connecting countries and grids . We should open even more consulates in Afghan and make Indian culture, language and clothes a house hold thing.

Once govt has done its job, then its time for corporate India to go and finish it. Our corporate sector has money and they have resources. Afghan can actually become a giant economy something like Australia if they use those resources as a weapon of development. I think bad times are over for afghan.


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## livingdead

^^^ India will maintain its presence either directly or through proxy in afganistan. India is no saint I agree (we supported NA thugs) but our aim there is more modest than others who are playing game there.

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## FaujHistorian

karan21 said:


> Man Indian afghan policy is definitely bearing fruits. We have won their hearts. Even though delhi doesnt have 24 hr electricity but we are going all out to make sure kabul does connecting countries and grids . We should open even more consulates in Afghan and make Indian culture, language and clothes a house hold thing.
> 
> Once govt has done its job, then its time for corporate India to go and finish it. Our corporate sector has money and they have resources. Afghan can actually become a giant economy something like Australia if they use those resources as a weapon of development. I think bad times are over for afghan.



Perhaps one of the BIMARU states could use the same approach. 

-- Tujhay pra-ee kiya paree hai,
-- Apni nabair tu

or perhaps the old addage of "chiraq talay undhaira" fits here very well. 

For those who don't understand Urdu/Hindi, the above is saying 'mind your own business first".


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## dearone4u_22

ajtr said:


> nope just reminding gullible indians like honourable yourself about the Afghan khatirdaari/mehmaan nawazi/love and affection indians got.



Earlier you guys use Afghans as scape goat for your propoganda .....India having no common boundary with afghanistan watched and observed and Chankya got into action.......Now India will have physical presence in Afghanistan........

Table have turned now ........ Game is about to turn head over heel.......... its time for some intense mehmaan nawazi now

like i said earlier also " Chankya never forgets & above all never forgives"


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## jayron

Aeronaut said:


> No one describes Afghan Taliban as terrorists, not even westerners. They are a bunch doing what they have done for 1000s of years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mod-Edit: *Anyone found to be de-railing the tread will get a direct ban.*



you are a mod not a mafia leader. 
You start a thread with a blog post and threaten those who disagree with a ban. 
For us Afghan and Pak Taliban are the same- savage barbarians terrorizing their populace. you guys handed be a 2 week ban once when I wished TTP rule in Pakistan just to make a point. Now you ban yourself for supporting Afghan Taliban on a populace who hates them.

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## notsuperstitious

Congratulations for the usual scholarly article.

This scholarly article is full of claims right from karachi violence, balochistan issue, indian drugs trade in afghanistan, indian weapons in pakistan, hints by ISPR and more such solid proof. BTW this is NOT off topic - this baseless trash is mentioned in the article

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## livingdead

FaujHistorian said:


> Perhaps one of the BIMARU states could use the same approach.
> 
> -- Tujhay pra-ee kiya paree hai,
> -- Apni nabair tu
> 
> or perhaps the old addage of "chiraq talay undhaira" fits here very well.
> 
> For those who don't understand Urdu/Hindi, the above is saying 'mind your own business first".



Civilian foreign aid is not only out of compassion to citizen of other countries, it is part of international diplomacy. UK wont be spending millions in asia and africa with a broken economy at home, only due to humanity.

If every rupee spent in afganistan brings more security to India and also secure trade benefits, why not spend it?


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## pakdefender

karan21 said:


> Man Indian afghan policy is definitely bearing fruits. We have won their hearts. Even though delhi doesnt have 24 hr electricity but we are going all out to make sure kabul does connecting countries and grids . We should open even more consulates in Afghan and make Indian culture, language and clothes a house hold thing.
> 
> Once govt has done its job, then its time for corporate India to go and finish it. Our corporate sector has money and they have resources. Afghan can actually become a giant economy something like Australia if they use those resources as a weapon of development. I think bad times are over for afghan.



United Stated started off with the economic and military muscle that it had in 2001 and after 10 years it is reaping very nicely the fruits of its policy in Afghanistan 

India is a pip squeak by comparison , you neither have the economic muscle nor the militarty muscle that the American had to start with, americans came in with support of 40 other countires to bear down on Pakistan via Afghansitan , how far lalu in his lungi will get in this endeavour is not hard to to guess.

Your foolish anti-Pakistan investments will go down the toilet as the US draw down begins


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## Kompromat

hinduguy said:


> ^^^ India will maintain its presence either directly or through proxy in afganistan. India is no saint I agree (we supported NA thugs) but our aim there is more modest than others who are playing game there.



You, see when you indulge in an international game, it doesn't matter how modest your pre planned goals are. What really matters is how other stakeholders, perceive them in their own strategic scene.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Aeronaut said:


> Its India sitting in our neighbor's house not Pakistan sitting in India's, that makes India an adversary.



which is why Pakistan will do what it takes to ensure the adversary doesn't stir up trouble by turning Afghanistan into a bastion for anti-Pakistan activity

it simply wont be tolerated and the world body that is informed -- knows this already. 

Americans (like Senator McCain) know this as well. The U.S. are using india more as a bait, or leverage of some kind to bring pressure on Pakistan. It's a strategy that wont work, given that the survival of Karzai regime is highly in question; even in American policy circles, where there is a consensus that Karzai's writ outside of NATO-administered Kabul is questionable and quite uncertain, at best

we do need to take bold steps to safeguard our side of the border (regardless of pleas and protests by afghan side) and continue to call on NATO to stop allowing anti-Pakistan militants to cross over the porous border....

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## notsuperstitious

Interestingly Sajjad Shaukat was a member on the forum and used to promote his blog. but he got banned for some reason. Then he opened another account called Sania Saleem and keeps posting his bedtime stories. I'm surprised such tripe is considered worth discussing.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=41994

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## Gandhi G in da house

Aeronaut said:


> Its India sitting in our neighbor's house not Pakistan sitting in India's, that makes India an adversary.



It is none of your business who your neighbour invites to his house as long as it doesn't negatively affect you, for which you don't have any proof .

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## notsuperstitious

No proof






No case!

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## Abu Zolfiqar

TeriShirtDaButton said:


> I even asked this to afgans directly and they laughed on me..
> 
> Talibunies mostly lives like maoist lives in india



if your backwards maoists were even half as equipped, trained and motivated the way the talebs are you would have lost your entire northeast completely to them.....given the sheer numbers in maoist ranks.

if the talebs can infiltrate ANA, Afghan intelligence, Afghan police; if even Karzai is now calling them his "angry brothers" (years after they whacked his father) then it seems at least to me that it's a telling sign that whether we like it or NOT, the "bunnies" are consolidating their gains and their influence and power is spreading years after their ouster and defeat in 2001/02. This isn't to say that Talebs could hold much sway in the western sector of the country, which is dominated more by ethnic Tajiks and Hazaras who traditionally have had their own militant factions that were at odds with the talebs. The real challenge will be to see how the stakeholders to peace in Afghanistan (with Pakistan, Iran and CARs at the forefront) can help promote peace and end to civil war in the country.




Afghanistan: an illusion exposed | Carne Ross | Comment is free | The Guardian



> According to a devastating account from a senior US army officer, the Taliban now range freely across much of the country. US forces barely control the territory they can see from their highly fortified bases. Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Davis reports that the Afghan army, like its government, is neither competent nor trusted.
> 
> The war was supposed to end with the Taliban arriving as supplicants to the negotiating table once sufficiently "degraded" by allied attacks. That strategy has been turned on its head. If anyone is a supplicant it will be the allies, desperate to make a deal they can claim as some kind of limited "victory" before they pull out. But, if this weekend's events are any indicator, the Taliban don't seem very interested in talking.
> 
> Where did it go so wrong? With the lucidity of hindsight (for I was once an enthusiastic supporter of the war), it appears that a fatal mistake was made before the campaign even started. In Bonn, an international conference was convened to construct a political strategy to follow the inevitable military victory. A moderate Pashtun would lead a government comprising all factions and ethnicities  or at least those we approved of. This new dispensation was to be endorsed by the traditional loya jirga, or "democracy, Afghan-style", as some chose to call it. It sounded plausible and everyone in the "international community" signed on.
> 
> But the new Afghanistan was in fact a fantasy.
> 
> A few weeks after Bonn, allied forces quickly drove out the Taliban  at least in parts of Afghanistan. The Karzai government was installed. The illusion persisted. But even in 2002, the flaws in the fantasy were evident for those who cared to look. Indeed they had been evident in Bonn.
> 
> For the one faction not invited to join the new Afghanistan was of course the Taliban. It was simply assumed that they would disappear. When I briefly served in the British embassy in Kabul shortly after the invasion, nobody ever asked why there was no allied presence in large swaths of the south. At the main airbase at Bagram, military operations were presented as mere "mopping up" of rag-tag forces driven into the mountains. But I remember one SAS commander who seemed less than convinced of this rose-tinted narrative. Perhaps he already saw the auguries.
> 
> Accompanying a senior official visiting our new allies in the north and west of the country (again, none in the south), everyone told us that the loya jirga would produce the wished-for democratic stability. Nobody mentioned that our partners in this project often behaved more like tyrants than democrats. One was reported to be given to tying the limbs of his opponents to two tanks then driving them in opposite directions.
> 
> The allies had all the guns and the money. Was it any wonder that any Afghan we met told us what we wanted to hear? At every meeting we were accompanied by squads of heavily-armed soldiers. As for the money, iIt was muttered only sotto voce at the Kabul embassy that cash-filled briefcases were regularly handed to new government ministers and warlords on "our side". Even nice Mr So-and-So, who spoke such good English and presented so well on TV, was on the take. Today, the only surprise is that we seem so shocked at the corruption of the Karzai government, given that we helped corrupt it.
> 
> The truth was that the allies were not creating a new democratic Afghanistan. Wwe had instead joined one side in a civil war that had raged for decades, has not ceased despite the allied presence, and will resume with full force once the western forces depart. It seems astonishing now that we were so wilfully naive. It all made such good sense at the time.
> 
> We entered Afghanistan and tried to make it comply with our fantasy, ignorant of its already complex realities. We occupied only small pieces of the country but declared that we had vanquished all of it. We constructed a new "democratic" order  but excluded those most likely to oppose it while including the brutish and corrupt (and then we corrupted them some more).
> 
> That these contradictions now seem so clear serves as a reminder of how stupid we were.


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## karan21

pakdefender said:


> United Stated started off with the economic and military muscle that it had in 2001 and after 10 years it is reaping very nicely the fruits of its policy in Afghanistan
> 
> India is a pip squeak by comparison , you neither have the economic muscle nor the militarty muscle that the American had to start with, americans came in with support of 40 other countires to bear down on Pakistan via Afghansitan , how far lalu in his lungi will get in this endeavour is not hard to to guess.
> 
> Your foolish anti-Pakistan investments will go down the toilet as the US draw down begins



Loll last time they sent some yanks to do the work. This time baniya hindus and Sons of Sardars will go. You see the difference broo.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

FaujHistorian said:


> Typical Desi brawl. And shameful at it. Blaiming each others and their uncle for the bad stuff in the neighborhood.
> 
> 
> As a Pakistani I'll talk about the OP first. then perhaps mention where Indian posters get it wrong. utterly wrong. Here is a very high level view of the role each of the party is playing.
> 
> 1. Afghanis: Blame or credit for anything that goes on in their country, should go to Afghans. They are majority in their country. USA, Pakistan, India, Russia can only do anything in Afghanistan if an only if Afghanis are willing to help the invaders.
> 
> 
> 2. Pakistanis: We cannot blame India, or America or CIA or RAW etc. for what goes on in Iran. Our hands are not clean. So many Pakistani civilians come on these forums and froth at their mouths about everyone else except themselves. If we as a nation are that worried about Afghanis, then why don't we send teams of science teachers, doctors, nurses and engineers to build Afghanistan. Why instead we allow despicable characters like Gul-badan (pretty boy)? Why? Pak army and civilians must be living in an era 100s of years ago when Afghan hoards could easily come down the Khyber pass and ransack Pakistani and Indian regions. That era ended when modern military techniques used by Maharaja Ranjit Singh finally glued shut any misadventure by Afghani war lords. Since then, the military capability of Punjab and KPK has increased 1000s of time while Afghans are pretty much the same as they were in 16th century,
> 
> With this change in capabilities, Pakistan must play a constructive role in Afghanistan by educating and training them and by helping develop a stable modern country instead of relying on $tupid talibaboons. Islam clearly tells us that we must treat our neighbors with respect and with humility. And what are we doing instead?
> 
> We must remember that Afghanistan by population is the size of a large city in Pakistan. We can easily deal with them using regular forces (million man strong) instead of letting warlords f**k Afghanistan and in the process our own country is getting f***ked.
> 
> We must change our course, we must. If not for Afghanistan, then at least for our country's sakes. India and RAW can only be there until NATO is there. They will run with their dhotis flying as soon as the goras leave.
> 
> So we must not treat Afghanistan as if it will remain under Indian thumb forever.
> 
> 
> 3. Indians: So many posters want to show India is so goody goody Bollywoodsy-Aishvarya for the manly men Afghani. That's not the case. Indian have terrible history of supporting Afghanis on one condition, that they $hit on Pakistan at every occasion. This was the case in 1947, this was the case in 1967, and that was the case in 77, 87, 97, 07, ..... you get the point.
> 
> The problem with such $tupid behavior is that India cannot win this war of Afghani-attrition when it has no direct route to the country. And the only viable route to send supplies is Pakistan. Thus any misadventure taken by Indians is going to cost India dearly and in the long run hurt Afghanis a lot more than what it can do to Pakistan.
> 
> 4. NATO: They made a serious mistake by not inviting Pakistan army into the allies working in Afghanistan. Bringing India into the mix meant, they lost support of a major player in the area. I mean how $tupid it is to spend
> 100s of billions of dollars in Afghanistan while hoping that Pakistan will be the main supply route if they paid 2 billions a YEAR?
> 
> Afghanistan would have been easilty controlled by paying 10 billion a year to Pakistan and 2 billion to Afghanistan. 12 billion a year. That's it! 12 fing billions.
> 
> Instead NATO destroyed their own economies (other factors are involved, but lets focus on military expenses in Afghanistan for the moment), by utterly wasting 100s of billions every year but most importantly loosing 1000s of their precious soldiers.
> 
> NATO should have left Afghanistan in 2002 by handing over the control to a regional peace keeping force, OK may be they needed to keep 3 squadrons of fighters with few squadron each of cargo and other support planes.
> 
> NATO felt they could muscle their way through, and I am sure their approach may work in the long run, but at what cost. AT What fing cost.
> 
> 
> 
> in summary: Pakistanis and Pak army have supported the wrong side so far. It is time we change our ways, and think about bringing peace in Afghanistan. That's the only way we can kick Indians out of Afghanistan. It is the only way.
> 
> 
> 
> peace



you bring up many points here which i agree on.....however, Afghanistan is basically a conflomeration of factions. the indians supported the Northern Alliance.

you expected Pakistan to do the same? They are viewed by many as an anti-Pashtun warlord faction....i dont think supporting the NA would bode too well for the Pashtun Pakistani population, don't ya think? 

moreover, the human rights record of the NA is as bad as that of the talebs.....i'm sure the facts and figures are out there somewhere. 


as i implied earlier, Pakistan will do the needful to ensure that Afghanistan does not become an existential threat to Pakistan (through manipulation done by our enemies)....it's hard for everyone to push for total reconciliation when certain countries are part of the problem rather than part of the solution; and the solution will come about not through occupying invader armies but rather through regional integration and cooperation. Pakistan, Iran, CARs, GCC, even Turkey have roles to play here and hopefully all can sit down and come up with solutions to the problems many of which exist.

there has to be an environment in which all aggrieved factions/groups in Afghanistan can reconcile and work towards peace and normalcy in Afghanistan......otherwise this is all just part II of the previously started Cold War (a war which we were part of and a war which in the long run has cost us dearly --- in financial and non-financial terms)



karan21 said:


> Loll last time they sent some yanks to do the work. This time baniya hindus and Sons of Sardars will go. You see the difference broo.



so your military forces and your national exchequer will do what several NATO armies and what trillions of dollars in foreign donations and commitments couldnt do.....

rigggggght 


i'd actually love to pop some popcorn and see what would happen


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## KRAIT

Pakistan has geographical advantage when it comes to Afghanistan but at the same time its the biggest weakness too as the porous border is so hard to monitor. Even US can't stop infiltrations of people from Mexico with so much money and advance equipments, its hard to digest the fact that Pakistan can stop these incursions post 2014 within couple of years.

Lets work from time frame of today to 2014. India will create as much anti-Pakistan factions it can along with supply and support to BLA< TTP etc. whichever terrorist group is "allegedly" linked with India. 

Now coming to post 2014, the anti-Pakistani people are going to increase. One faction that are fighting against NATO, will be the ones who think that Pakistan helped NATO in this WoT so they will seek revenge.

Second faction will be the one who is "supported" by India. 

Pakistan can take them out. Depends on how much money and time they can invest to make the problem go away. Pakistan knows the modus operandi and contacts of the terrorist groups which are need to be taken out post 2014 as it worked with them during Afghan war. It is also well trained to fight in this terrain too. 

*But here comes the big problem, the time to suppress these terrorists will come with HUGE Economic strain. India don't care if TTP, BLA etc wins or not.* For India, if it manages to extend the military action of Pakistan against these terrorist groups post 2014, by 5 years or a decade, that mean by lets say, by 2020, 2014, the losses incurred will cripple the economy and due to security concern, foreign players may not invest too heavily.

NATO couldn't uproot Taliban in 11 years and after 8 trillion in the drain, it is still struggling. Now just imagine what it will cost. *Even if its 100 billion or lets say 20 billion at least, its defense budget of Pakistan (4 billion at present) is used to get rid of these terrorists, we can see what will be the impact on Pakistan's economy at whole especially when it is already struggling with loans for important projects and its other economic concern.

India's end game is keeping the western theater active for long period of time. Its a win win situation, not a zero sum game.*

*
So instead of being emotional, we should look at economical aspect of this problem first. *

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## Abu Zolfiqar

KRAIT said:


> Pakistan can take them out. Depends on how much money and time they can invest to make the problem go away. Pakistan knows the modus operandi and contacts of the terrorist groups which are need to be taken out post 2014 as it worked with them during Afghan war. It is also well trained to fight in this terrain too.
> 
> *But here comes the big problem, the time to suppress these terrorists will come with HUGE Economic strain. India don't care if TTP, BLA etc wins or not.* For India, if it manages to extend the military action of Pakistan against these terrorist groups post 2014, by 5 years or a decade, that mean by lets say, by 2020, 2014, the losses incurred will cripple the economy and due to security concern, foreign players may not invest too heavily.
> 
> NATO couldn't uproot Taliban in 11 years and after 8 trillion in the drain, it is still struggling. Now just imagine what it will cost. *Even if its 100 billion or lets say 20 billion at least, its defense budget of Pakistan (4 billion at present) is used to get rid of these terrorists, we can see what will be the impact on Pakistan's economy at whole especially when it is already struggling with loans for important projects and its other economic concern.
> 
> India's end game is keeping the western theater active for long period of time. Its a win win situation, not a zero sum game.*
> 
> *
> So instead of being emotional, we should look at economical aspect of this problem first. *



exactly....but two can play at these games, rememeber that too kiddo

also remember that unlike NATO troops, we have the largest Pashtun population in Pakistan which translates into a rich cross-over of tribes on both sides of durand line.....

On the topic of NATO and the "end-game" --if the US wanted a full Pakistani cooperation, it should not have installed a virulently anti-Pakistani government in Kabul post 9-11. Even Lakhdar Brahimi (who nowdays is receiving much attention in media and policy circles) described the Afghan government as 'anti Pakistani!' The rest is history with the US getting caught in the middle as it were.

Pakistan would welcome an Afghanistan that was actually sovereign and respected the Durand line as an international border. Unfortunately, CERTAIN Afghan leaders time to have have demonstrated time and again that they fail on both counts and, willingly or otherwise, do india's bidding in harming Pakistan.

The exact same arguments that America is applying to Pakistan can be applied to Afghanistan vis-a-vis Pakistan. As long as they continue harboring anti-Pakistan elements, and until they make peace with the Durand line, Pakistan will do the needful to make sure Afghanistan doesn't cause trouble.

Pakistan has the basis for an excellent peaceful relationship with Afghanistan, including large crossover of ethnic tribes, but it will not materialize as long as Afghanistan lets itself be used by indian against Pakistan.


this doesnt translate into Pakistan going on the offensive and undermining indian efforts in Afghanistan (some of which are genuine and productive)...but when it translates into promoting an anti-Pakistan atmoshphere and promoting terrorist factions that do dirty work against Pakistan, we will act. This has been demonstrated already and could be demonstrated again and again.

india should refrain from meddling in our regional affairs and trying to undermine or threaten our security in a sneaky, covert fashion....its not a conduct that would be in her interests


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## FaujHistorian

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> you bring up many points here which i agree on.....however, Afghanistan is basically a conflomeration of factions. the indians supported the Northern Alliance.
> 
> you expected Pakistan to do the same? They are viewed by many as an anti-Pashtun warlord faction....i dont think supporting the NA would bode too well for the Pashtun Pakistani population, don't ya think?
> 
> moreover, the human rights record of the NA is as bad as that of the talebs.....i'm sure the facts and figures are out there somewhere.
> 
> 
> as i implied earlier, Pakistan will do the needful to ensure that Afghanistan does not become an existential threat to Pakistan (through manipulation done by our enemies)....it's hard for everyone to push for total reconciliation when certain countries are part of the problem rather than part of the solution; and the solution will come about not through occupying invader armies but rather through regional integration and cooperation. Pakistan, Iran, CARs, GCC, even Turkey have roles to play here and hopefully all can sit down and come up with solutions to the problems many of which exist.
> 
> there has to be an environment in which all aggrieved factions/groups in Afghanistan can reconcile and work towards peace and normalcy in Afghanistan......otherwise this is all just part II of the previously started Cold War (a war which we were part of and a war which in the long run has cost us dearly --- in financial and non-financial terms)
> ......




Thanks. 


Just want to explore a bit the assertion you made about "Afghanistan not becoming existential threat". 


As per my analysis, Afghan threat to Pakistan is real, but it can never be termed as "existantial". This will be a hugely overblown idea.

This is based on the following:

1. Afghan army and government has always been really weak, so they cannot do anything drastic against Pakistan that is 10 time bigger population wise, and 100 times or bigger than military capability wise. 

2. Afghan economy is totally and utterly depended on Pakistan.

3. Even a resourceful organization like NATO has been totally and utterly dependent on Pakistan, then how on earth any other country or group of countries could ever support a major military campaign against Pakistan?


Afghanistan is a tiny tiny country if you want to consider its impact on a Pakistan where population is not afraid to death about it. 


Pakistani intellectuals have done really poor job in terms of the following:

1. Overplaying Afghanistan's prowess
2. Underplaying India's true power

Because of #1, we are always behaving as if Afghan hoards will descend on us tomorrow. 

Because of #2, we are always making empty bharaks (slogans) like Sultan rahi. 



peace


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## Kazhugu

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> if your backwards maoists were even half as equipped, trained and motivated the way the talebs are you would have lost your entire northeast completely to them.....given the sheer numbers in maoist ranks.



hahaha some one tell this think tank that the maoists dont operate in north east..but predominantly in central and east of central india....and yeah the maoists are as much motivated and trained as the talibooobies..and are definitely more than "half as equipped" as them...and that lack of equipment is offset by the lack of fighters, gunships, drones,carpet bombing that they dont face...


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## Mitro

dearone4u_22 said:


> Earlier you guys use Afghans as scape goat for your propoganda .....India having no common boundary with afghanistan watched and observed and Chankya got into action.......Now India will have physical presence in Afghanistan........
> 
> Table have turned now ........ Game is about to turn head over heel.......... its time for some intense mehmaan nawazi now
> 
> like i said earlier also " Chankya never forgets & above all never forgives"



Our physical presence in afghanistan will be short live and all around the world think tanks know that this karzai government will collapse as soon as nato leave in 2014 ,we are going to loose our investment and we have run from afghanistan in lang goti .


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## Slayer786

The game will start once the NATO run back to their holes from which they came and leave Afghanistan for all. Now Indians shockingly belief that they will have influence in Afghanistan for years to come. They must be living in a fantasy world. I say lets let them believe that. It would be great to see their shocked faces when the taliban overruns kabul and a Civil war will erupt. if they believe that the kabul govt will ask them to send their military and they will agree. That would be just awesome. Like to see how the Indian forces tackle the taliban. Ofcourse, their experience in Srilanka was horrific for them. In Afghanistan it will be catastrophic.


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## Gandhi G in da house

Kazhugu said:


> hahaha some one tell this think tank that the maoists dont operate in north east..but predominantly in central and east of central india....and yeah the maoists are as much motivated and trained as the talibooobies..and are definitely more than "half as equipped" as them...and that lack of equipment is offset by the lack of fighters, gunships, drones,carpet bombing that they dont face...



I will agree with you that the maoists are perhaps as well trained as the Talibanis but they certainly are not as well equipped and motivated .

Has any Maoists ever conducted a Suicide Bombing ? Those guys care for their lives , that is why they engage in hit and run tactics unlike Taliban who are just waiting to meet their 72 virgins .

Equipment wise as well Taliban uses Kalashnikov , Ak-47 etc . I don't think the Maoists have much of these . That is why Maoists are not much a threat to be honest . We are just not hard enough on them otherwise they would be easily wiped out .



Czar786 said:


> Our physical presence in afghanistan will be short live and all around the world think tanks know that this karzai government will collapse as soon as nato leave in 2014 ,we are going to loose our investment and we have run from afghanistan in lang goti .



Why don't you come back with your own flags ? I know you have to face discrimination in the US when you tell them your real nationality but this an internet forum . Nothing will happen , don't worry. Jao jaldi flag badalke aao , jao .


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## Ticker

nick_indian said:


> It is none of your business who your neighbour invites to his house as long as it doesn't negatively affect you, for which you don't have any proof .



It is indeed our business to keep a watch on who comes and goes in our neighbourhood. And if the neighbour doesn't behave, he will have to be appropriately ticked and the invitees asked to behave. 

The proof is, because we say so.


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## Peshwa

Ticker said:


> It is indeed our business to keep a watch on who comes and goes in our neighbourhood. And if the neighbour doesn't behave, he will have to be appropriately ticked and the invitees asked to behave.
> 
> The proof is, because we say so.



If we are to go by your logic....Kashmir being a part of India or "disputed" territory as claimed by our neighbor falls under the neighborhood watch...
and since India has the biggest searchlights, making sure we set those invitees (by RSVP or otherwise) in order is part of our job and right...

Why?...coz we say so...

Do we concur?

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## KRAIT

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> exactly....but two can play at these games, rememeber that too kiddo
> 
> also remember that unlike NATO troops, we have the largest Pashtun population in Pakistan which translates into a rich cross-over of tribes on both sides of durand line.....
> 
> On the topic of NATO and the "end-game" --if the US wanted a full Pakistani cooperation, it should not have installed a virulently anti-Pakistani government in Kabul post 9-11. Even Lakhdar Brahimi (who nowdays is receiving much attention in media and policy circles) described the Afghan government as 'anti Pakistani!' The rest is history with the US getting caught in the middle as it were.
> 
> Pakistan would welcome an Afghanistan that was actually sovereign and respected the Durand line as an international border. Unfortunately, CERTAIN Afghan leaders time to have have demonstrated time and again that they fail on both counts and, willingly or otherwise, do india's bidding in harming Pakistan.
> 
> The exact same arguments that America is applying to Pakistan can be applied to Afghanistan vis-a-vis Pakistan. As long as they continue harboring anti-Pakistan elements, and until they make peace with the Durand line, Pakistan will do the needful to make sure Afghanistan doesn't cause trouble.
> 
> Pakistan has the basis for an excellent peaceful relationship with Afghanistan, including large crossover of ethnic tribes, but it will not materialize as long as Afghanistan lets itself be used by indian against Pakistan.
> 
> 
> this doesnt translate into Pakistan going on the offensive and undermining indian efforts in Afghanistan (some of which are genuine and productive)...but when it translates into promoting an anti-Pakistan atmoshphere and promoting terrorist factions that do dirty work against Pakistan, we will act. This has been demonstrated already and could be demonstrated again and again.
> 
> india should refrain from meddling in our regional affairs and trying to undermine or threaten our security in a sneaky, covert fashion....its not a conduct that would be in her interests


Few years ago who would have thought of TTP or extremist afghans going against Pakistan, kidnapping and beheading Pakistani soldiers, suicide attacks bomb blasts etc. So what will happen in future, well we can only guess.

But what you missed is the economic effect on Pakistan which was my main focus. You do realize that to uproot TTP and other anti-Pakistan forces won't be a cake walk and it will require large amount of money and time as by your own admission, even NATO couldn't uproot Taliban after spending trillions of dollars spent over decade. 

So what I am emphasizing is how long will it take and at what cost ? The more you kill TTP, the more anti-Pakistani factions will emerge as collateral damage will also happen because of your attacks too. Will Pakistan achieve or sustain economic growth with this war ? One need to analyze the Money and Lives involved in Pakistan's action post 2014. 

As for meddling in internal affairs, we all know that India and Pakistan, both have been doing this for decades and India won't stop, so does Pakistan. Saying that India won't dare to do this will be wrong prediction. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, comes into play when two nations with history for 4 wars and such tactics are concerned.

You do realize the Indian connection with NA and its investment in well-being of Afghans will play an important role, don't you ? Thinking that all Afghanis will support Pakistan will be over-estimation, reason being your continuous support to Taliban post-Cold War will be against you. By many people in Pakistan blaming Indians for support to BLA already means that India will interfere in future. 

India's investment and strategic pacts have already made Pakistan for giving $ 500 million to Afghanistan, the money which could have been used for your own projects. 

At least what India can achieve with its economy is minimizing the chances of huge anti-India groups created in Afghanistan for Kashmir issue. Pakistan doesn't have economic shock absorbers. Only economical strong way Pakistan can sustain this war is using China's interest in Afghanistan to make them pay for your operation.

So I again want you guys to look at economic aspect. Look at economics involved for time being. Assuming India won't dare, well if you think it that way, well then I have nothing to say. Just one last statement.

Welcome to 21st century and Economic terrorism.


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## Ticker

FaujHistorian said:


> Thanks.
> Just want to explore a bit the assertion you made about "Afghanistan not becoming existential threat".
> As per my analysis, Afghan threat to Pakistan is real, but it can never be termed as "existantial". This will be a hugely overblown idea.
> This is based on the following:
> 1. Afghan army and government has always been really weak, so they cannot do anything drastic against Pakistan that is 10 time bigger population wise, and 100 times or bigger than military capability wise.
> 2. Afghan economy is totally and utterly depended on Pakistan.
> 3. Even a resourceful organization like NATO has been totally and utterly dependent on Pakistan, then how on earth any other country or group of countries could ever support a major military campaign against Pakistan?
> Afghanistan is a tiny tiny country if you want to consider its impact on a Pakistan where population is not afraid to death about it.
> Pakistani intellectuals have done really poor job in terms of the following:
> 1. Overplaying Afghanistan's prowess
> 2. Underplaying India's true power
> Because of #1, we are always behaving as if Afghan hoards will descend on us tomorrow.
> Because of #2, we are always making empty bharaks (slogans) like Sultan rahi.
> peace



Your above post was not really worth replying. 

Do you have any understanding of the environment that exist in Afghanistan. And this is not the first time that you have posted utterly out of tune analyses which neither conform to the existing environment, nor relate to the historical perspective.

I think it is important that you correct your historical purview before you numb yourself with self imposed delusion. And no need to reply, please. 

You talked about historical perspective in another thread as well, which was inconsistent with realities. 

You talked about Raja Ranjit Singh Kana as he was and is known in these parts, and mentioned that he was so great for the Muslims as a ruler. Let me give you some historical facts about that as well. 

He and his army when they captured Peshawar, committed unheard-of atrocities on the people of the city. Read the memoirs written by the French General, who is buried in Anarkali Bazar Lahore, and you probably would find out what happened. Pakistani historians ko to shayed tum manay na issi liye goray ka example diya hai. 

The Sikhs used to kill hundreds of Peshawarites every day and hang their dead bodies on all the entry gates of Peshawar city. They did this for a long period on daily basis. And you know why they did this - to scare the people of that area. 

After Ahmed Shah Abdali left for Afghanistan, because he slaughtered cows in the adjoining pond of Golden Temple, the Sikhs gathered tens of thousands of innocent Muslims from the surrounding area and in the month of June, forced them to literally lick the pond clean. Over thirty thousand died doing it. This is a quote from a book written by a Hindu historian and not a Muslim Pakistani historian. 

So when you talk Afghanistan and present an analysis, please open your mind to the ground realities and then carryout an analysis. The one above is not worth it. Thanks.

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## FaujHistorian

Ticker said:


> Your above post was not really worth replying.
> 
> Do you have any understanding of the environment that exist in Afghanistan. And this is not the first time that you have posted utterly out of tune analyses which neither conform to the existing environment, nor relate to the historical perspective.
> 
> I think it is important that you correct your historical purview before you numb yourself with self imposed delusion. And no need to reply, please.
> 
> You talked about historical perspective in another thread as well, which was inconsistent with realities.
> 
> You talked about Raja Ranjit Singh Kana as he was and is known in these parts, and mentioned that he was so great for the Muslims as a ruler. Let me give you some historical facts about that as well.
> 
> He and his army when they captured Peshawar, committed unheard-of atrocities on the people of the city. Read the memoirs written by the French General, who is buried in Anarkali Bazar Lahore, and you probably would find out what happened. Pakistani historians ko to shayed tum manay na issi liye goray ka example diya hai.
> 
> The Sikhs used to kill hundreds of Peshawarites every day and hang their dead bodies on all the entry gates of Peshawar city. They did this for a long period on daily basis. And you know why they did this - to scare the people of that area.
> 
> After Ahmed Shah Abdali left for Afghanistan, because he slaughtered cows in the adjoining pond of Golden Temple, the Sikhs gathered tens of thousands of innocent Muslims from the surrounding area and in the month of June, forced them to literally lick the pond clean. Over thirty thousand died doing it. This is a quote from a book written by a Hindu historian and not a Muslim Pakistani historian.
> 
> So when you talk Afghanistan and present an analysis, please open your mind to the ground realities and then carryout an analysis. The one above is not worth it. Thanks.





You are now turning this discussion from regional issue into a "Mullah-fundoo-discussion". And that's OK with me. Maharjah Ranjeet Singh was no philanthropist, he was a raja. His treatment of his enemies was at the same level (if not better) as those adopted by all in his time.

However he kept Persian as the language of his court and appointed many Muslims in the senior positions.It is on record that Lahore Muslims opened the doors for him and so did many other Muslim dominated areas. And no there was no mass killing in many of these cities. 

If you want to press your point, open a separate thread.

From military history, he sure was the son of soil who stopped Afghan invasions in the areas now in Pakistan. If you want to counter this, then continue in this thread. 


peace



nick_indian said:


> It is none of your business who your neighbour invites to his house as long as it doesn't negatively affect you, for which you don't have any proof .




If your neighbor wants to blast your house's boundary wall, would that count towards "negatively affecting" you?

Just curious.


peace


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## ajtr

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> if your backwards maoists were even half as equipped, trained and motivated the way the talebs are you would have lost your entire northeast completely to them.....given the sheer numbers in maoist ranks.


You are right in certain way ie what maoists lack is modern weapon.But they have sheer numbers if they had access to weapons like talibans have they would have freed most of India from corrupt political elites.But even with their primitive world war 2 vintage weapons like .303 rifles snatched from police and bow and arrows maoists are able beat the crap out of indian security forces equipped with mordern weapons. they have conducted many famous raids like dantewada where 70+ odd security force people killed.


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## ajtr

KRAIT said:


> Pakistan has geographical advantage when it comes to Afghanistan but at the same time its the biggest weakness too as the porous border is so hard to monitor. Even US can't stop infiltrations of people from Mexico with so much money and advance equipments, its hard to digest the fact that Pakistan can stop these incursions post 2014 within couple of years.
> 
> Lets work from time frame of today to 2014. India will create as much anti-Pakistan factions it can along with supply and support to BLA< TTP etc. whichever terrorist group is "allegedly" linked with India.
> 
> Now coming to post 2014, the anti-Pakistani people are going to increase. One faction that are fighting against NATO, will be the ones who think that Pakistan helped NATO in this WoT so they will seek revenge.
> 
> Second faction will be the one who is "supported" by India.
> 
> Pakistan can take them out. Depends on how much money and time they can invest to make the problem go away. Pakistan knows the modus operandi and contacts of the terrorist groups which are need to be taken out post 2014 as it worked with them during Afghan war. It is also well trained to fight in this terrain too.
> 
> *But here comes the big problem, the time to suppress these terrorists will come with HUGE Economic strain. India don't care if TTP, BLA etc wins or not.* For India, if it manages to extend the military action of Pakistan against these terrorist groups post 2014, by 5 years or a decade, that mean by lets say, by 2020, 2014, the losses incurred will cripple the economy and due to security concern, foreign players may not invest too heavily.
> 
> NATO couldn't uproot Taliban in 11 years and after 8 trillion in the drain, it is still struggling. Now just imagine what it will cost. *Even if its 100 billion or lets say 20 billion at least, its defense budget of Pakistan (4 billion at present) is used to get rid of these terrorists, we can see what will be the impact on Pakistan's economy at whole especially when it is already struggling with loans for important projects and its other economic concern.
> 
> India's end game is keeping the western theater active for long period of time. Its a win win situation, not a zero sum game.*
> 
> *
> So instead of being emotional, we should look at economical aspect of this problem first. *


Well you you are most welcomed to play the game but as always playground will be India........I wonder what would happen if some non state actors explodes dirty nuke in say mumbai.i hope india will have enough papers to type dossiers.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

FaujHistorian said:


> As per my analysis, Afghan threat to Pakistan is real, but it can never be termed as "existantial". This will be a hugely overblown idea.



fair enough; i'll accept that....replace "Existential" with "serious"





> This is based on the following:
> 
> 1. Afghan army and government has always been really weak, so they cannot do anything drastic against Pakistan that is 10 time bigger population wise, and 100 times or bigger than military capability wise.



but in the end, you still cant change the geography.....or the attitudes of those that can be bought off to harm us





> 2. Afghan economy is totally and utterly depended on Pakistan.



to a large extent, but not "utterly"

furthermore, that still hasnt changed the back-stabbing nature of those who lived or were even born in Pak but then went back and resort to accusatory tactics and vitriolics



> 3. Even a resourceful organization like NATO has been totally and utterly dependent on Pakistan, then how on earth any other country or group of countries could ever support a major military campaign against Pakistan?



they can exploit peoples emotions and exploit those who are poor....they can support factions including those opposed to Pakistan. Plenty of western-educated Amrullah Salehs out there





> Pakistani intellectuals have done really poor job in terms of the following:
> 
> 1. Overplaying Afghanistan's prowess
> 2. Underplaying India's true power



the indians played a dirty game in 71 and some in their deeper circles see an interest in deteriorating law and order (and development) in Pakistan......NATO adventure was the biggest blessing to india since Mother Theresa herself.




> Because of #1, we are always behaving as if Afghan hoards will descend on us tomorrow.



well they kinda have already....it's time for them to go home and build their own country




> Because of #2, we are always making empty bharaks (slogans) like Sultan rahi.



what kind of slogans are you talking about


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## RazPaK

I'm going to say it simply. Yes I may receive an infraction or may get banned. However I will post true to my feelings. My grandfather told me simply that Hindus are our enemy. They will forever be the enemy.

Not all Hindus may be this way, but the majority are our enemy.

And I dare even one mod to reprimand me, because his action would prove there was no need for the creation of Pakistan.

My family is one of the few unfortunate ones that have suffered from the atrocities of partition. Even if the Punajbis, Pashtuns, Baluch, and Sindhis of Pakistan want to make friends with Indians, we will never stand for it.

They hate us from their heart. Even if they show a good face.

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## ajtr

jbond197 said:


> What are Maoists doing in the discussion about Afghans? These Mao bhakht who keep on harping on Maoism and bring it any damn discussion should be asked - How much the principles of Maoism do they follow? Did you kicked your religion aside as the rule number 1 of Maoism? If not then stop pretending to be Maoists spokespersons.


Maoist are relevant to this thread coz they always spoken against the Indian Army's brutal genocide and occupation of kashmir.They support kashmir movement so do Taliban support kashmir movement.In a sense both Taliban'and maoists aims are same wrt to india hence maoists are discussed here.


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## RazPaK

Bond said:


> You know ultimate destination of all of terrorists and people supporting them is hell !!! I understand for some of you folks you are bound by religion to use it as a tool to attack on innocents but there will not be any success in it... good luck with this jihaddi mentality...



Your own people attack people of your own country and religion. Have some shame before citing examples.

You were a conquered people, but now I say that you *ARE* a conquered people. *MENTALLY*.

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## ajtr

jbond197 said:


> such a scenario..


According to our Think tank Krait sahib its called war-gaming....All permutations and combinations of scenarios....So i'm just doing that...ie war gaming.....Btw keep you tongue civil in public forum.


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## ajtr

Bang Galore said:


> This is not 1990, India has enough money to help keep the Taliban occupied in Afghanistan, Actually, your point makes it clear that is what we must do, no point in allowing the Taliban the luxury of rest. Keeping them occupied in Afghanistan & Pakistan is our best bet & that is what we should aim for. The NA won't be hung out to dry this time & unlike the Americans, Afghan groups are less concerned with niceties in war.


It wont take much to make it 1990s for india and regarding money even usa had loads of it but than taliban made its mince meat now usa and nato are running.banias with all their money cant fight wars only kshtriyas do.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Bang Galore said:


> This is not 1990, India has enough money to help keep the Taliban occupied in Afghanistan, Actually, your point makes it clear that is what we must do, no point in allowing the Taliban the luxury of rest. Keeping them occupied in Afghanistan & Pakistan is our best bet & that is what we should aim for. The NA won't be hung out to dry this time & unlike the Americans, Afghan groups are less concerned with niceties in war.



i really hope your babus and policy makers don't think like you b/c clearly the prospect of civil war in Afghanistan doesn't trouble you one bit (of course, since they are so far from your geographical borders) 

anywaz...



sandy_3126 said:


> Afghans or your precious ISI and talibunnies?



the impetus for the attack was indian support of the 2003 U.S. invasion of Afghanistan and india&#8217;s recognition of Hamid Karzai&#8217;s national government. 

"talibunnies" however denied responsibility for the attack; so of course you'd resort to blaming ISI though the proof doesnt even exist

so that's that, 'Sandy'

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## pakdefender

Bang Galore said:


> This is not 1990, India has enough money to help keep the Taliban occupied in Afghanistan, Actually, your point makes it clear that is what we must do, no point in allowing the Taliban the luxury of rest. Keeping them occupied in Afghanistan & Pakistan is our best bet & that is what we should aim for. The NA won't be hung out to dry this time & unlike the Americans, Afghan groups are less concerned with niceties in war.



America cannot sustain the war for much longer, they risk sinking billions more if they stay one
Begging America to continue the war in Afghanistan for India&#8217;s benefit won&#8217;t work anymore and on your own beyond making loud bangs from your other end there is not much you Indians can do.


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## Paan Singh

pakdefender said:


> America cannot sustain the war for much longer, they risk sinking billions more if they stay one
> Begging America to continue the war in Afghanistan for Indias benefit wont work anymore and on your own beyond making loud bangs from your other end there is not much you Indians can do.



WAr cost is more coz there are thousands of troops on ground but it wont be after 2014.
They will have 4-5 bases having few thousand troops each and u will see huge rise in drone strikes..
coz its the only way to get the enemy without soldier casualty.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

karan.1970 said:


> Hope Pakistan will have enough people left alive after that to read the dossiers sent by India ...







ajtr said:


> i just hope india will have eonugh enough persons alive to type those dossiers.



OUCH

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## pilgrim999

ajtr said:


> Nope Good taliban and bad taliban phrases were made popular my your master USA whom indians support/defend like loyal slaves here on pdf and everywhere.
> 
> nope just reminding gullible indians like honourable yourself about the Afghan khatirdaari/mehmaan nawazi/love and affection indians got.



you got to be kidding me.....our master....heee coming from the famous 3 A's of pakistan. for the better part of century Indian and Us was on opposite side of the fence.....but cant say the same about pakistan.....dont want to get in the slanging match with whats happening in around your area due to american balatant interference and yet yu say our masters......hope yu reconcile...


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## Ticker

FaujHistorian said:


> You are now turning this discussion from regional issue into a "*Mullah-fundoo-discussion*". And that's OK with me. Maharjah Ranjeet Singh was no philanthropist, he was a raja. His treatment of his enemies was at the same level (if not better) as those adopted by all in his time.
> 
> However he kept Persian as the language of his court and appointed many Muslims in the senior positions.It is on record that Lahore Muslims opened the doors for him and so did many other Muslim dominated areas. And no there was no mass killing in many of these cities.
> 
> If you want to press your point, open a separate thread.
> 
> From military history, he sure was the son of soil who stopped Afghan invasions in the areas now in Pakistan. If you want to counter this, then continue in this thread.
> 
> 
> peace
> 
> peace



What Mullah-fundoo-discussion are you talking about. Telling you about correct perspective of history and is this the best crap that you come out with. Understandable. 

The massacre of Muslims in Golden Temple pond has been quoted by Hari Rom Gupta, in his 1943 book titled, Later Mughal History of Punjab. 

The massacres that took place in Peshawar has been aptly highlighted by the French General in Ranjit Singh's service, his book. 

Do you know who were those two Muslims who communicated with British Sarkar at Delhi in Persian language on behalf of Ranjit Singh - if not please try and read about them and the manner in which they rose and reached his court and their court intrigues etc before you even start talking about history of that era. 

Ranjit Singh was totally illiterate and could not even read or write. What do you think he governed with. How do you think he defeated all the Sikh Misls to become a raja. 

And then you dismiss historical facts by saying, this was the norm then and such things used to happen in those days. Pray, tell me how many died during the first, second and the last Sikh battle at Chillianwala near dinga in Punjab, against the English. 

You are a tin horn fundoo who knows nothing about history and tend to use portion of your brain which is not part of your upper story. Try more reading, learn to discern the truth from fiction and then analyse - alas that does not seem to be your forte.


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## Kompromat

nick_indian said:


> It is none of your business who your neighbour invites to his house as long as it doesn't negatively affect you, for which you don't have any proof .



We decide whats our business and let me explicitly say it that, Indian presence in Afghanistan is unacceptable and this is how we will treat it.

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## Abhishek_

Aeronaut said:


> We decide whats our business and let me explicitly say it that, Indian presence in Afghanistan is unacceptable and this is how we will treat it.


not of particular concern to India, it is far easier and more effective to engage PK on two sides of the border.
the status-quo works quite well for us since most of the brunt of WOT if being borne by the af - pak people.

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## FaujHistorian

Abhishek_ said:


> not of particular concern to India, it is far easier and more effective to engage PK on two sides of the border.
> the status-quo works quite well for us since most of the brunt of WOT if being borne by the af - pak people.



You perhaps do not believe in Karma then?


Sure "a f - p a k" people as you say will continue bearing the brunt of death, disease and destruction. And the way Indians on this forum are behaving, looks like they don't think the $hit will not flow downhill to India. 

Remember it always does. It always always does.

Indians on this forum are smug because they like their Islamists counterparts do not live in the fing region. They mostly have emigrated to the West, so for most of them the war is just like a video game, just a video game.

Indians jump up and down and accuse Pakistan to pursue "strategic depth", but in the same breath, they themselves support India's blind efforts for "strategic encirclement" of Pakistan. 

The problem and HUGE weakness with the India's "strategic encirclement" of Pakistan is that every fing bullet and every grain of rice and every drop of oil has to be shipped through Pakistan into Afghanistan. 

Now tell me, how on earth people like you just come on a defense forum and f@rt about military engagements with no concern whatsoever about the logistics. No concern what-fing-so-ever!

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## ajtr

Abhishek_ said:


> not of particular concern to India, it is far easier and more effective to engage PK on two sides of the border.
> the status-quo works quite well for us since most of the brunt of WOT if being borne by the af - pak people.


Oh come on Abhishek plz dont undermine the sacrifices of indians who also bore the burnt of WOT be it in afghanistan or with in india since 9/11.You can't deny it that WOT has spilled over to the east of wagha too in past decade.If i count some of major attacks in india then it gives very dismal picture of India even worse than pak.

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## Agnostic_Indian

Aeronaut said:


> We decide whats our business and let me explicitly say it that, Indian presence in Afghanistan is unacceptable and this is how we will treat it.



as long as afghan govt and common people are friendly towards India we will have our presence in afghan..it is strategically important for India that pak don't control afghan once Americans leave and make it a terror training ground and strategic depth against India. so unless you stop troubling as in Kashmir it will be a " two front trouble " for Pakistan.

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## Abhishek_

FaujHistorian said:


> You perhaps do not believe in Karma then?
> 
> 
> Sure "a f - p a k" people as you say will continue bearing the brunt of death, disease and destruction. And the way Indians on this forum are behaving, looks like they don't think the $hit will not flow downhill to India.
> 
> Remember it always does. It always always does.
> 
> Indians on this forum are smug because they like their Islamists counterparts do not live in the fing region. They mostly have emigrated to the West, so for most of them the war is just like a video game, just a video game.
> 
> Indians jump up and down and accuse Pakistan to pursue "strategic depth", but in the same breath, they themselves support India's blind efforts for "strategic encirclement" of Pakistan.
> 
> The problem and HUGE weakness with the India's "strategic encirclement" of Pakistan is that every fing bullet and every grain of rice and every drop of oil has to be shipped through Pakistan into Afghanistan.
> 
> Now tell me, how on earth people like you just come on a defense forum and f@rt about military engagements with no concern whatsoever about the logistics. No concern what-fing-so-ever!



^i didn't mean military engagements per se. pk can easily be countered with mere financial and moral backing of certain entities. pakistanis do the rest rather well.
india doesnt need to send boots to afghanistan.


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## ajtr

Agnostic_Indian said:


> as long as afghan govt and common people are friendly towards India we will have our presence in afghan..it is strategically important for India that pak don't control afghan once Americans leave and make it a terror training ground and strategic depth against India. so unless you stop troubling as in Kashmir it will be a " two front trouble " for Pakistan.


India troubling pakistan from west is just indian fantasy.Afghanistan is like back of pakistan's palm(who said this..Hamid gul or col.Imam...not sure).So when americans withraw from afghanistan it will be back to 1990s for india.but this time it wont be limited only to kashmir like 1990 but whole of india will fare game.



Abhishek_ said:


> ^i didn't mean military engagements per se. pk can easily be countered with mere financial and moral backing of certain entities. pakistanis do the rest rather well.
> india doesnt need to send boots to afghanistan.


Pakistan too can neutralize with same moral and diplomatic support....

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## Abhishek_

ajtr said:


> India troubling pakistan from west is just indian fantasy.Afghanistan is like back of pakistan's palm(who said this..Hamid gul or col.Imam...not sure).So when americans withraw from afghanistan it will be back to 1990s for india.but this time it wont be limited only to kashmir like 1990 but whole of india will fare game.


we can discuss that once americans withdraw.
for now, india is taking maximum advantage of a weakened pakistan.



ajtr said:


> Pakistan too can neutralize with same moral and diplomatic support....


it has tried in vain many times before, so we're not exactly loosing sleep over it.


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## Agnostic_Indian

FaujHistorian said:


> You perhaps do not believe in Karma then?
> 
> 
> Sure "a f - p a k" people as you say will continue bearing the brunt of death, disease and destruction. And the way Indians on this forum are behaving, looks like they don't think the $hit will not flow downhill to India.
> 
> Remember it always does. It always always does.
> 
> Indians on this forum are smug because they like their Islamists counterparts do not live in the fing region. They mostly have emigrated to the West, so for most of them the war is just like a video game, just a video game.
> 
> Indians jump up and down and accuse Pakistan to pursue "strategic depth", but in the same breath, they themselves support India's blind efforts for "strategic encirclement" of Pakistan.
> 
> The problem and HUGE weakness with the India's "strategic encirclement" of Pakistan is that every fing bullet and every grain of rice and every drop of oil has to be shipped through Pakistan into Afghanistan.
> 
> Now tell me, how on earth people like you just come on a defense forum and f@rt about military engagements with no concern whatsoever about the logistics. No concern what-fing-so-ever!



India would not be sending troop or fighter jet that would be foolish. Rather we will build good will in afghan by supporting then financially, militarily or by what ever means except direct military involvement.


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## humanfirst

FaujHistorian said:


> Indians jump up and down and accuse Pakistan to pursue "strategic depth", but in the same breath, they themselves support India's blind efforts for "strategic encirclement" of Pakistan.
> 
> The problem and HUGE weakness with the India's "strategic encirclement" of Pakistan is that every fing bullet and every grain of rice and every drop of oil has to be shipped through Pakistan into Afghanistan.
> 
> Now tell me, how on earth people like you just come on a defense forum and f@rt about military engagements with no concern whatsoever about the logistics. No concern what-fing-so-ever!



Indian presence in afghanistan is anything but strategic encirclement of pakistan..We have no bases there and not a single soldier stationed there..As you yourselves mentioned,much of the supplies to afghan is going through wagah border only..India is just another nation involved in various projects just like china,with zero military presence..


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## ajtr

Abhishek_ said:


> we can discuss that once americans withdraw.
> for now, india is taking maximum advantage of a weakened pakistan.


From my vantage point india has fritter away all its advantages in last decade it had over pakistan by some of its most foolish foreign policy decisions by relying too much on USA to fight indias WOT.India will soon find itself alone again fighting its WOT.



> it has tried in vain many times before, so we're not exactly loosing sleep over it.


It tried it and was quite successful in pinning down india in kashmir through its irregulars.!990 india had only kashmir problem.Now think about after 2014 india facing 29 kashmirs allover india from north to south and east to west.And all pakistan has to do is to provide moral and diplomatic support to all the freedom fighters fighting all over india in 29 different kashmirs.

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## anilindia

ajtr said:


> India troubling pakistan from west is just indian fantasy.Afghanistan is like back of pakistan's palm(who said this..Hamid gul or col.Imam...not sure).So when americans withraw from afghanistan it will be back to 1990s for india.but this time it wont be limited only to kashmir like 1990 but whole of india will fare game.
> 
> Pakistan too can neutralize with same moral and diplomatic support....



Time has chnaged now. Its not cold war now. Afganistan will be India friend. And Pakistan has themself problem with Taliban now. Best to luck to them


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

FaujHistorian said:


> Indians jump up and down and accuse Pakistan to pursue "strategic depth", *but in the same breath, they themselves support India's blind efforts for "strategic encirclement" of Pakistan.*




Why does India's relationship with Afghanistan have to be Pakistan centric? Can't they be more do with increasing presence in Central Asia?


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## karan21

Indian presence in Afghan is not to fire missiles or spread democracy. It is to spread goodwill and show them the right way. Afghanis have to decide whats good for them. Dreams of making Afghan same as 1990s, I promise this wont happen anymore. Too many world powers are now creating assets there including Indian 20 billion investment. So dont take anything for granted. Afghan is now becoming an energy hub.


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## ajtr

Agnostic_Indian said:


> India would not be sending troop or fighter jet that would be foolish. Rather we will build good will in afghan by supporting then financially, militarily or by what ever means except direct military involvement.


As famous retired indian diplomat MK Bhadrakumar consistently says in his articles on af_pak that india can build goodwill in afghanistan by taking pakistan on board otherwise not. unless pakistan wishes to you cant build goodwill in afghanistan.In a sense Pakistan has vetoe in afghanistan with its relations with india.

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## Abhishek_

ajtr said:


> From my vantage point india has fritter away all its advantages in last decade it had over pakistan by some of its most foolish foreign policy decisions by relying too much on USA to fight indias WOT.India will soon find itself alone again fighting its WOT.
> 
> It tried it and was quite successful in pinning down india in kashmir through its irregulars.!990 india had only kashmir problem.Now think about after 2014 india facing 29 kashmirs allover india from north to south and east to west.And all pakistan has to do is to provide moral and diplomatic support to all the freedom fighters fighting all over india in 29 different kashmirs.


yawn, i'm not one to lose sleep over fantasy scenarios. we'll come to it when pakistan can actually pull off any such things.
as things stand now, pakistan has frozen the kashmir issue for a decade. i, for one don't see that as foolish indian foreign policy.


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## ajtr

humanfirst said:


> Indian presence in afghanistan is anything but strategic encirclement of pakistan..*We have no bases there and not a single soldier stationed there*..As you yourselves mentioned,much of the supplies to afghan is going through wagah border only..India is just another nation involved in various projects just like china,with zero military presence..


If i'm not wrong ITBP is deployed in afghanistan to provide security to indian embassy and to the workers working there on indian projects.



karan21 said:


> Indian presence in Afghan is not to fire missiles or spread democracy. It is to spread goodwill and show them the right way. Afghanis have to decide whats good for them. Dreams of making Afghan same as 1990s, I promise this wont happen anymore. Too many world powers are now creating assets there including Indian 20 billion investment. So dont take anything for granted. Afghan is now becoming an energy hub.


Already explained it in other post of mine you cant have goodwill in afghanistan without pakistan giving it its approval.ie you have to work in afghanistan by taking permission letter from GHQ rwp first.

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## ajtr

Abhishek_ said:


> yawn, i'm not one to lose sleep over fantasy scenarios. we'll come to it when pakistan can actually pull off any such things.


Well its not some fantasy scenario or some think tanks war-gaming. its the reality which indians dont wish to see even after so many attack all over india with in last decade itself.

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## humanfirst

ajtr said:


> India troubling pakistan from west is just indian fantasy.Afghanistan is like back of pakistan's palm(who said this..Hamid gul or col.Imam...not sure).


Hamid gul also said baitullah mehsud a true mujahid who would support pakistan in war against india..It turned out baitullahs gang whacked 20000+ pakistanis in last 4 years..True mujahids indeed..

And colonal imam...Poor thing thought he could negotiate with taliban..Got shot in the head and is buried somewhere in north wazeeristan..



ajtr said:


> So when americans withraw from afghanistan it will be back to 1990s for india.but this time it wont be limited only to kashmir like 1990 but whole of india will fare game.



Americans withdrew from their posts in kunar and nuristan in 2010 and afghan taliban took over..And as of now they are sheltering TTP leadership and from their safe comfort TTP is crossing the border now and then and killing pak soldiers as they wish..
And you wish for the afghan taliban to take over the entire nation..


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## anilindia

Topic should be changed to "India's constructive role in Afganistan" and every one know this..

U.S. Encourages India's Role in Afghanistan - WSJ.com

Germany lauds India's Afghanistan role, pushes UN reforms - Times Of India

India eyes increased role in Afghanistan - CSMonitor.com

But why this worry Pakistan....

Indian role in Afghanistan spells danger for Pakistan - thenews.com.pk


Hundreds of Afghans Protest against Pakistan


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## Abhishek_

ajtr said:


> Well its not some fantasy scenario or some think tanks war-gaming. its the reality which indians dont wish to see even after so many attack all over india with in last decade itself.


we're comfortable with our reality, we wish pakistanis all the comfort with their reality as well.


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## ajtr

Abhishek_ said:


> as things stand now, pakistan has frozen the kashmir issue for a decade. i, for one don't see that as foolish indian foreign policy.


It wont take much time and efforts from pakistan to bring it on forefront again with a bang ala kargil style.Kargil did bing kashmir into international scene again.

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## ajtr

anilindia said:


> Topic should be changed to "India's constructive role in Afganistan" and every one know this..
> 
> U.S. Encourages India's Role in Afghanistan - WSJ.com
> 
> Germany lauds India's Afghanistan role, pushes UN reforms - Times Of India
> 
> India eyes increased role in Afghanistan - CSMonitor.com
> 
> But why this worry Pakistan....
> 
> Indian role in Afghanistan spells danger for Pakistan - thenews.com.pk
> 
> 
> Hundreds of Afghans Protest against Pakistan


USA/germany infact whole of NATO are planning to run from afghanistan and they want india to clean up the mess they have created in there in last decade. hence such statements are frequently made in press to soothe indian egos.But i think indian neta are more farsighted than the pdf indians hence they are not comitting to any harakiri in afghanistan.


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## Mitro

10-12 years of american occupation of afghanistan was enough to de-stabalise pakistan but all the CIA,Mossad and raw have fail miserably and after 2014 iSI will concentrate only on india and we will see very strong naxal force with lastest weapons and offcourse kashmir will be on fore front with hundreds of fighter coming from afghanistan.


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## ajtr

humanfirst said:


> Hamid gul also said baitullah mehsud a true mujahid who would support pakistan in war against india..It turned out baitullahs gang whacked 20000+ pakistanis in last 4 years..True mujahids indeed..
> 
> And colonal imam...Poor thing thought he could negotiate with taliban..Got shot in the head and is buried somewhere in north wazeeristan..
> 
> 
> 
> Americans withdrew from their posts in kunar and nuristan in 2010 and afghan taliban took over..And as of now they are sheltering TTP leadership and from their safe comfort TTP is crossing the border now and then and killing pak soldiers as they wish..
> And you wish for the afghan taliban to take over the entire nation..


You will be in for a big surprise after 2014 american withdrawal i can bet that all taliban factions will merge under pakistan to recapture whole of afghanistan again like 1990s.It wont take much to convince TTP.


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## Abingdonboy

What utter,utter BS. Unbelviably despite 0 actual evidence this fool has written a sizeable article on some obsucre website.I won't even bother asking what his credentials are because I know he has none. Pakistanis don't like how favorable the Indians are in Afghanistan and how hated they are. Pardon India for trying to devlop Afghanistan, India should take Pakistan's lead and try to destabilse Afghanistan and bring medieval nut jobs into power. Pakistan has made conspiracy theories a national sport! Sometimes you have to just say "we are the bad guys and not the whole world".

A damned good read:

A tale of conspiracy Why can


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## Abhishek_

ajtr said:


> It wont take much time and efforts from pakistan to bring it on forefront again with a bang ala kargil style.Kargil did bing kashmir into international scene again.


the outcome was rather favorable to India. i dont think we would mind if pakistan tries another kargil, by all means please do so.


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## ajtr

Abhishek_ said:


> we're comfortable with our reality, we wish pakistanis all the comfort with their reality as well.


What you thinking as your reality is your fantasy .you are chasing a mirage in afghanistan.


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## Abingdonboy

For some reason all of Pakistan's woes from floods to power outages to corruption to terrorism is because of some global CIA-MOSSAD-RAW nexus. Do you guys here your selves sometimes??!!


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## Abhishek_

ajtr said:


> What you thinking as your reality is your fantasy .you are chasing a mirage in afghanistan.


your concerns are duly noted. thank you


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## Sher Malang

India has no subversive role in Afghanistan in fact India joined the list of best and old friends of Afghanistan along Japan, Germany, Turkey and France the rest is all BS by the author.

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## ajtr

Czar786 said:


> 10-12 years of american occupation of afghanistan was enough to de-stabalise pakistan but all the CIA,Mossad and raw have fail miserably and after 2014 iSI will concentrate only on india and we will see very strong naxal force with lastest weapons and offcourse kashmir will be on fore front with hundreds of fighter coming from afghanistan.


ISI was able to attack india so many times with in last decade even when it was busy on western front and home front fighting WoT.now when NaTO withraws it will be free from two front and would be able to concentrate fully on india with unlimited supply of fighter at it hands.it will drag india by its nose .

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## illusion8

ajtr said:


> *India troubling pakistan from west is just indian fantasy.Afghanistan is like back of pakistan's palm(who said this..Hamid gul or col.Imam...not sure).So when americans withraw from afghanistan it will be back to 1990s for india.but this time it wont be limited only to kashmir like 1990 but whole of india will fare game.*
> 
> Pakistan too can neutralize with same moral and diplomatic support....



Back of the palm and could not stop the USSR taking over Afghanistan, could not stop the US/NATO takeover of Afghanistan. And, Indian security apparatus do estimate the spillage of terrorists from Pakistan into India just like the 1990's but there are a few contradictions here.

1)The US left the area and did not bother about the spillage secondly there was no BLA,TTP, sectarian violence, seperatist movements in Pakistan in the 90's and there was active support for Pakistan from fringe Muslim elements in J&K which has been neutralised by India to a large extent apart from one old f@rt Geelani who will die soon. Pakistan was in much better shape economically then, it's in ruins now with a number of sectarian violence and terrorism inside Pakistan.

2) Global image of Pakistan as an active sponsor of terrorism has been achieved with NATO/US and even China acknowledging it so India has a much more receptive audience in the globe and Pakistan needs these countries to try and rebuild and if better sense prevails Pakistan will not indulge in the activities that they did in the 1990's at least for 5 years and India can utilize this time to wall up in addition to the 12 years that was given during WOT.

3) A number of countries will be active in Afghanistan and that includes India after the withdrawal as well to foresee that Afghanistan does not go back to your proxies and if it does it will be a long drawn out battle with the weight of the world behind the anti Taliban forces.

4) Economy of Pakistan is in the doldrums while the same of India has increased, Global political strength of Pakistan has come to nil while India's become a powerhouse. Effectively we need another decade of the scenario in the west of Pakistan to continue for India to be unreachable for Pakistan which I fear it already is to a major extent..but by 2020 there will be a lot of changes in the status quo. India should utilize it's time spent in Afghanistan to maintain its momentum there.


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## humanfirst

ajtr said:


> Already explained it in other post of mine you cant have goodwill in afghanistan without pakistan giving it its approval.ie you have to work in afghanistan by taking permission letter from GHQ rwp first.



We are present in afghanistan and many projects are going in full swing..
2 or 3 terror attacks by your proxies didn't stop us..All you can do is whine about how unacceptable indian presence is to pakistan,and have wet dreams about 2014 taliban takeover..


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## ajtr

Abhishek_ said:


> the outcome was rather favorable to India. i dont think we would mind if pakistan tries another kargil, by all means please do so.


This time outcome wont be same.

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## illusion8

Sher Malang said:


> India has no subversive role in Afghanistan in fact India joined the list of best and old friends of Afghanistan along Japan, Germany, Turkey and France the rest is all BS by the author.



It's all propaganda and expect more such pieces, no one believes such tripe.


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## ajtr

Sher Malang said:


> India has no subversive role in Afghanistan in fact India joined the list of best and old friends of Afghanistan along Japan, Germany, Turkey and France the rest is all BS by the author.


Well taliban will decide that not the NA sitting in kabul.

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## Ticker

India has been able to generate a limited scaled diversionary effort from Afghanistan against Pakistan by supporting the terrorists. However, their effort beyond a certain level may intrusively confront the American interests. 

Though Americans have also utilized such Indian sponsoring to achieve some of their objectives as well, such Indians actions and efforts would tend to lose support in the long run whence the Americans may initiate stability enhancing measures in Afghanistan. 

Therefore, Indian efforts by default are restricted due to time and space limitations. Beyond these time and space limitations, Indian sponsoring would hurt the American efforts and would then become counter productive. 

The Americans will retain 4-6 bases in Afghanistan as their next objective, before or after Iran, is full spectrum domination of Eurasian Hinterland and is therefore beyond Afghanistan. For such objective attainment, it is important for Afghanistan to attain a measure of stability. Indians will have to stop at a particular stage. 

And if one goes by the happenings in Libya and Syria etc, the same body of trouble makers would be moving in to Central Asia in not too distant a future. This would leave Pakistan relatively free from such activities. 

The Indians therefore can smile for the time.

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## Abhishek_

ajtr said:


> This time outcome wont be same.


lol, more fantasy scenarios


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## ajtr

humanfirst said:


> We are present in afghanistan and many projects are going in full swing..
> 2 or 3 terror attacks by your proxies didn't stop us..All you can do is whine about how unacceptable indian presence is to pakistan,and have wet dreams about 2014 taliban takeover..


It wont take long for indians to close shop and run home after 2014.

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## illusion8

ajtr said:


> ISI was able to attack india so many times with in last decade even when it was busy on western front and home front fighting WoT.now when NaTO withraws it will be free from two front and would be able to concentrate fully on india with unlimited supply of fighter at it hands.it will drag india by its nose .



ISI attacks into India ... care to give some actual examples of ISI attacks in India!! and who are these fighters you are mentioning.


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## Ticker

Sher Malang said:


> India has no subversive role in Afghanistan in fact India joined the list of best and old friends of Afghanistan along Japan, Germany, Turkey and France the rest is all BS by the author.



andhay ko andheray mein bahot door ki soojhi


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## illusion8

ajtr said:


> It wont take much time and efforts from pakistan to bring it on forefront again with a bang ala kargil style.Kargil did bing kashmir into international scene again.



Another Kargil incursion from Pakistan!! are you sure?? and please elaborate on ISI attacks in India.


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## humanfirst

ajtr said:


> It wont take long for indians to close shop and run home after 2014.



Lets wait and see...


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## AnnoyingOrange

ajtr said:


> This time outcome wont be same.



Yups....India might end up crossing the LOC deep into P0K this time around.

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## illusion8

ajtr said:


> You will be in for a big surprise after 2014 american withdrawal i can bet that all taliban factions will merge under pakistan to recapture whole of afghanistan again like 1990s.It wont take much to convince TTP.



Yes similar to 1990's - Pakistan against the world and peace in Afghanistan. You are saying that Pakistan will bull doze all the normalcy, development and nation building that the world did in Afghanistan.

You are saying that Pakistan will return back Afghanistan into the hands of the Taliban...right?


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## humanfirst

ajtr said:


> Well taliban will decide that not the NA sitting in kabul.



Right now taliban is sheltering TTP in areas captured by them after americans left their posts,Namely kunar and nuristan..From there TTP fighters are regularly conducting night raids and butchering pak forces..What say ajtr?


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## FaujHistorian

ajtr said:


> It wont take long for indians to close shop and run home after 2014.



As Pakistanis we must keep the reality in our analysis. Empty bluster is going to hurt us, 

Few corrections here my dear Sir. 

1. Indians were involved in Afghanistan before 2001. So they will be in Afghanistan after 2014. Their influence may diminish a bit but they will be there. 

2. Prime beneficiary of 2014 pull out by NATO will be Ayman Zawahiri and not Pakistani state. Zawahiri has openly suggested revolt against the state of Pakistan in the name of Sharia. We will not be a theocratic state in 2014, so guess what, Zawahiri will have the same level of anti-Pakistan plan if not any worse, 

3. Back in the 90s, Pakistan's plan in Afghanistan was not upset by Indian presence. It was Al Qaida who demolished Pakistani influence in Afghanistan.


So we must be mindful that conditions on the ground have changed since the 90s and our plan and our views must get updated. Otherwise we'll be in for a rude awakening.


peace


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## Dushmann

Aeronaut said:


> Its India sitting in our neighbor's house not Pakistan sitting in India's, that makes India an adversary.



your neighbor? Afghanistan is India's neighbor too. We share border. why should a third person poke his nose if my neighbor invites me for tea?


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## Sher Malang

humanfirst said:


> We are present in afghanistan and many projects are going in full swing..
> 2 or 3 terror attacks by your proxies didn't stop us..All you can do is whine about how unacceptable indian presence is to pakistan,and have wet dreams about 2014 taliban takeover..



Lol @ some naive people, when ISI proxies attacked Indian embassy and it's staff; 

1)When they attacked, 5,000 Afghans visited Indian on average monthly but it's now increased to more than 30,000 Afghans monthly!! 

2)When they attacked, Indian investment was less than 500mln$ but now above 2bln$.

3)When they attacked, There were no cultural relations and scholarships but today we have more than 4000 Afghan students studying in Indian institutions (they are going at 1500/year now).

4)When they attacked, we were not strategic partners but now we are strategic partners and we have more stronger military ties.

5)When they attacked, our imports (6.9) and exports (23.5) but now imports (11.3) and exports (33.6) is to India.

6)When they attacked, there were no Indian construction of Dams in Afghanistan but today India is actively building Damns in east and west Afghanistan.

7)When they attacked, we had no 24 hours power in 9 provinces but today with Indian assistance we have 24 hours power in 9 provinces no matter it's winter or summer.

8)When they attacked, India was not most favored country by Afghans but today is!!

etc..

If you guys mean this to be subversive role than we are too happy for this India should keep this kind of subversive role in Afghanistan!!

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## ajtr

illusion8 said:


> Back of the palm and could not stop the USSR taking over Afghanistan, could not stop the US/NATO takeover of Afghanistan. And, Indian security apparatus do estimate the spillage of terrorists from Pakistan into India just like the 1990's but there are a few contradictions here.


What you think when did fighting started in afghanistan and why did USSR had to intervene and enter afghanistan.If you can guess it was during Bhutto regime Pakistan was meddling in afghanistan.And once USSR took bait and entered Afghanistan it was much easier for pak to defeat and disintegrate USSR with usa help coming in later phases. 



> 1)The US left the area and did not bother about the spillage secondly there was no BLA,TTP, sectarian violence, seperatist movements in Pakistan in the 90's and there was active support for Pakistan from fringe Muslim elements in J&K which has been neutralised by India to a large extent apart from one old f@rt Geelani who will die soon. Pakistan was in much better shape economically then, it's in ruins now with a number of sectarian violence and terrorism inside Pakistan.


In those days on DD news reportage Indian army officers deployed in kashmir regularly used to say that militants coming in kashmir are not kashmiris but the pashto punjabi speaking pathans.so spillage of mijahid was there in kashmir and its a fact.Btw balochis are fighting from 1947 nothing new about it.TTP is just another faction of taliban will definitely merge back in after america leaves.



> 2) Global image of Pakistan as an active sponsor of terrorism has been achieved with NATO/US and even China acknowledging it so India has a much more receptive audience in the globe and Pakistan needs these countries to try and rebuild and if better sense prevails Pakistan will not indulge in the activities that they did in the 1990's at least for 5 years and India can utilize this time to wall up in addition to the 12 years that was given during WOT.


there is difference pakistan is not been declared as terror sponsor country and no sanctions like iran imposed on it and will never any unsc can be passed as can be vetoed by china.Hafiz saeed case is prime example.



> 3) A number of countries will be active in Afghanistan and that includes India after the withdrawal as well to foresee that Afghanistan does not go back to your proxies and if it does it will be a long drawn out battle with the weight of the world behind the anti Taliban forces.


Every body is running so will india. only pak can control it hence russia is making overtures to old foe.



> 4) Economy of Pakistan is in the doldrums while the same of India has increased, Global political strength of Pakistan has come to nil while India's become a powerhouse. Effectively we need another decade of the scenario in the west of Pakistan to continue for India to be unreachable for Pakistan which I fear it already is to a major extent..but by 2020 there will be a lot of changes in the status quo. India should utilize it's time spent in Afghanistan to maintain its momentum there.


lol proxy war dont require much funds and most of it are obviously petro dollars.As zia used to say boil water at right temp. so india is gona be boiled at right temp.


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## Splurgenxs

FaujHistorian said:


> As Pakistanis we must keep the reality in our analysis. Empty bluster is going to hurt us,
> 
> Few corrections here my dear Sir.
> 
> 1. Indians were involved in Afghanistan before 2001. So they will be in Afghanistan after 2014. Their influence may diminish a bit but they will be there.
> 
> 2. Prime beneficiary of 2014 pull out by NATO will be Ayman Zawahiri and not Pakistani state. Zawahiri has openly suggested revolt against the state of Pakistan in the name of Sharia. We will not be a theocratic state in 2014, so guess what, Zawahiri will have the same level of anti-Pakistan plan if not any worse,
> 
> 3. Back in the 90s, Pakistan's plan in Afghanistan was not upset by Indian presence. It was Al Qaida who demolished Pakistani influence in Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> So we must be mindful that conditions on the ground have changed since the 90s and our plan and our views must get updated. Otherwise we'll be in for a rude awakening.
> 
> 
> peace



Buddy dont waste ur energy, ur talking to a tormented soul. Shes the authentic ,how u say it, *'Phaphe kutn janani'*?

THe way Ajtr is responding its almost as if she want to Paint Pakistanis as idiots.she very deceptive tht way.

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## Fanto

Hi , New Member ...


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## illusion8

Sher Malang said:


> Lol @ some naive people, when ISI proxies attacked Indian embassy and it's staff;
> 
> 1)When they attacked, 5,000 Afghans visited Indian on average monthly but it's now increased to more than 30,000 Afghans monthly!!
> 
> 2)When they attacked, Indian investment was less than 500mln$ but now above 2bln$.
> 
> 3)When they attacked, There were no cultural relations and scholarships but today we have more than 4000 Afghan students studying in Indian institutions (they are going at 1500/year now).
> 
> 4)When they attacked, we were not strategic partners but now we are strategic partners and we have more stronger military ties.
> 
> 5)When they attacked, our imports (6.9) and exports (23.5) but now imports (11.3) and exports (33.6) is to India.
> 
> 6)When they attacked, there were no Indian construction of Dams in Afghanistan but today India is actively building Damns in east and west Afghanistan.
> 
> 7)When they attacked, we had no 24 hours power in 9 provinces but today with Indian assistance we have 24 hours power in 9 provinces no matter it's winter or summer.
> 
> 8)When they attacked, India was not most favored country by Afghans but today is!!
> 
> etc..
> 
> If you guys mean this to be subversive role than we have too happy for this India should keep this kind of subversive role in Afghanistan!!



Pakistani's here are suggesting of supporting and infiltrating terrorists into Afghanistan and India post NATO pullout, they are also suggesting Kargil like incursions into India and more Mumbai style terrorist incidents. This is a fact which I think they are gearing up to do in post 2014.

What's Afghanistan security scenario post 2014, India's is weak and we are not confident of stopping Mumbai style terrorist incidents - nor can we stop infiltration of terrorists into Kashmir.



> You will be in for a big surprise after 2014 american withdrawal i can bet that all taliban factions will merge under pakistan to recapture whole of afghanistan again like 1990s.It wont take much to convince TTP.





> ISI was able to attack india so many times with in last decade even when it was busy on western front and home front fighting WoT.now when NaTO withraws it will be free from two front and would be able to concentrate fully on india with unlimited supply of fighter at it hands.it will drag india by its nose .





> It wont take much time and efforts from pakistan to bring it on forefront again with a bang ala kargil style.Kargil did bing kashmir into international scene again.


----------



## ajtr

Sher Malang said:


> Lol @ some naive people, when ISI proxies attacked Indian embassy and it's staff;
> 
> 1)When they attacked, *5,000 Afghans* visited Indian on average monthly but it's now increased to more than *30,000 Afghans monthly*!!
> 
> 2)When they attacked, Indian investment was less than 500mln$ but now above 2bln$.
> 
> 3)When they attacked, There were no cultural relations and scholarships but today we have more than 4000 Afghan students studying in Indian institutions (they are going at 1500/year now).
> 
> 4)When they attacked, we were not strategic partners but now we are strategic partners and we have more stronger military ties.
> 
> 5)When they attacked, our imports (6.9) and exports (23.5) but now imports (11.3) and exports (33.6) is to India.
> 
> 6)When they attacked, there were no Indian construction of Dams in Afghanistan but today India is actively building Damns in east and west Afghanistan.
> 
> 7)When they attacked, we had no 24 hours power in 9 provinces but today with Indian assistance we have 24 hours power in 9 provinces no matter it's winter or summer.
> 
> 8)When they attacked, India was not most favored country by Afghans but today is!!
> 
> etc..
> 
> If you guys mean this to be subversive role than we are too happy for this India should keep this kind of subversive role in Afghanistan!!


I wonder ho many of these 35000 afghans in india will be used to attack india like afghan police and ANA soldiers are killing Nato soldiers on daily basis...............

so that means taliban attackers /sleeper cells are already in india all it needs is to activate them at right time......

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## illusion8

Splurgenxs said:


> Buddy dont waste ur energy, ur talking to a tormented soul. Shes the authentic ,how u say it, *'Phaphe kutn janani'*?
> 
> THe way Ajtr is responding its almost as if she want to Paint Pakistanis as idiots.she very deceptive tht way.



Not almost, she's already done that.

I was taking it a step further.


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## Splurgenxs

ajtr said:


> I wonder ho many of these 35000 afghans in india will be used to attack india like afghan police and ANA soldiers are killing Nato soldiers on daily basis...............
> 
> so that means taliban attackers /sleeper cells are already in india all it needs is to activate them at right time......



will u stop insulting the Pakistani ppl now please ...its not funny anymore.


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## foxbat

ajtr said:


> I wonder ho many of these 35000 afghans in india will be used to attack india like afghan police and ANA soldiers are killing Nato soldiers on daily basis...............
> 
> so that means taliban attackers /sleeper cells are already in india all it needs is to activate them at right time......



How many Afghans are there in Pakistan again? A few million I heard...Even if 1 % are under the influence of RAW, Pakistan can burn overnight.. No ?

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## ajtr

Dushmann said:


> your neighbor? Afghanistan is India's neighbor too. We share border. why should a third person poke his nose if my neighbor invites me for tea?


Kakay northern areas kab se india ke kabze main aa gaya jo wakkhan corridors india ka border share kar raha hai actually woh pakistan main hai.Do one thing use neutral source maps rather than indian govt.'s propaganda map......................



AnnoyingOrange said:


> Yups....India might end up crossing the LOC deep into P0K this time around.


you cross loc or IB you gonna end up vapourising whole of india.

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## INDIC

ajtr said:


> It wont take long for indians to close shop and run home after 2014.



Americans are staying till 2024, so Pakistan is going to listen 'do more' for another 12 years. Make predictions for post 2024.


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## ajtr

illusion8 said:


> Yes similar to 1990's - Pakistan against the world and peace in Afghanistan. You are saying that Pakistan will bull doze all the normalcy, development and nation building that the world did in Afghanistan.
> 
> You are saying that Pakistan will return back Afghanistan into the hands of the Taliban...right?


Im saying Pakistan will make india afghanistan of 1990s i india dont stop and think for while to better its relation with pakistan.


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## illusion8

ajtr said:


> Kakay northern areas kab se india ke kabze main aa gaya jo wakkhan corridors india ka border share kar raha hai actually woh pakistan main hai.Do one thing use neutral source maps rather than indian govt.'s propaganda map......................
> 
> *you cross loc or IB you gonna end up vapourising whole of india.*



Pakistan will infiltrate India, it will send in Terrorists in Kashmir, ISI will carry out Terrorist attacks in India (all according to you) and if we retaliate Pakistan will nuke us...So what do you suggest India do?.


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## ajtr

Gigawatt said:


> Americans are staying till 2024, so Pakistan is going to listen 'do more' for another 12 years. Make predictions for post 2024.


Instead it will be america which will have to hear 'do more ' from pakistan.Pakistan has already srated saying 'do more ' to usa.

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## OrionHunter

> In this context, *Indias several secret training camps* are also present in Afghanistan from where *highly trained militants, equipped with sophisticated weapons are being sent to Pakistans various places *to conduct target killings, bomb blasts, including ethnic and sectarian violence regularly.


Shades of what Pakistan has been indulging in during the last two decades in Kashmir and other parts of India, the most notable being the attack on India's Parliament and 26/11.

Two can play this game, right? So why bellyache? 

Cheers!

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## Sher Malang

illusion8 said:


> Pakistani's here are suggesting of supporting and infiltrating terrorists into Afghanistan and India post NATO pullout, they are also suggesting Kargil like incursions into India and more Mumbai style terrorist incidents. This is a fact which I think they are gearing up to do in post 2014.
> 
> What's Afghanistan security scenario post 2014, India's is weak and we are not confident of stopping Mumbai style terrorist incidents - nor can we stop infiltration of terrorists into Kashmir.



They tried that after soviet pullout too and hamid ghol was in command but sadly they took black faces back home and hamid ghol was terminated from ISI chief's post.

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## foxbat

ajtr said:


> It wont take long for indians to close shop and run home after 2014.



As Karan normally says (before a biased moderator banned him  )

"&#2361;&#2332;&#2366;&#2352;&#2379;&#2306; &#2326;&#2381;&#2357;&#2366;&#2361;&#2367;&#2358;&#2375;&#2306; &#2320;&#2360;&#2368; &#2325;&#2367; &#2361;&#2352; &#2326;&#2381;&#2357;&#2366;&#2361;&#2367;&#2358; &#2346;&#2375; &#2342;&#2350; &#2344;&#2367;&#2325;&#2354;&#2375;"

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## Sher Malang

ajtr said:


> I wonder ho many of these 35000 afghans in india will be used to attack india like afghan police and ANA soldiers are killing Nato soldiers on daily basis...............
> 
> so that means taliban attackers /sleeper cells are already in india all it needs is to activate them at right time......



You should stop wondering and living in a wonder land.

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## INDIC

ajtr said:


> Instead it will be america which will have to hear 'do more ' from pakistan.Pakistan has already srated saying 'do more ' to usa.



Pakistan started saying, please quote any incident.


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## foxbat

ajtr said:


> Instead it will be america which will have to hear 'do more ' from pakistan.Pakistan has already srated saying 'do more ' to usa.



You are absolutely right. And America does listen to Pakistan.. They have started *doing more* drone attacks lately

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## ajtr

Sher Malang said:


> You should stop wondering and living in a wonder land.


not wonder sher malang sahib..India has already been attacked by afghanis uzbekis etc throughout 1990s in kashmir.coldwar era mujahids were diverted to india after the defeat of ussr and its no secret.

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## Fanto

Gigawatt said:


> Americans are staying till 2024, so Pakistan is going to listen 'do more' for another 12 years. Make predictions for post 2024.



Lol, it means 12 more years Drone will be on Pakistan's neck . 
Every evening tea with Drone Music  
Eid with Firecrackers of Drone 
Drone will be National Symbol of Pakistan


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## humanfirst

FaujHistorian said:


> As Pakistanis we must keep the reality in our analysis. Empty bluster is going to hurt us,
> 
> Few corrections here my dear Sir.
> 
> 1. Indians were involved in Afghanistan before 2001. So they will be in Afghanistan after 2014. Their influence may diminish a bit but they will be there.
> 
> 2. Prime beneficiary of 2014 pull out by NATO will be Ayman Zawahiri and not Pakistani state. Zawahiri has openly suggested revolt against the state of Pakistan in the name of Sharia. We will not be a theocratic state in 2014, so guess what, Zawahiri will have the same level of anti-Pakistan plan if not any worse,
> 
> 3. Back in the 90s, Pakistan's plan in Afghanistan was not upset by Indian presence. It was Al Qaida who demolished Pakistani influence in Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> So we must be mindful that conditions on the ground have changed since the 90s and our plan and our views must get updated. Otherwise we'll be in for a rude awakening.
> 
> 
> peace



Good to see sane people in pakistan..Please dont expect to educate these jihadis..


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## Ticker

Gigawatt said:


> Americans are staying till 2024, so Pakistan is going to listen 'do more' for another 12 years. Make predictions for post 2024.



We listen to do more from one ear and out it goes from the other with no more. But yes the Americans will be our neighbours for a long time and they do understand our importance.


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## Sher Malang

ajtr said:


> not wonder sher malang sahib..India has already been attacked by afghanis uzbekis etc throughout 1990s in kashmir.coldwar era mujahids were diverted to india after the defeat of ussr and its no secret.



That's true Pakistan has exploited the true feelings of Afghan people by encouraging them to fight against evil hindu country last time I visited Indian controlled Kashmir a Kashmiri man asked me to meet other Afghans there, I asked who? he said they are here to fight Indian army.

So as long as Indian army is giving a strong defense to it's borders from those lunatics nothing will go the other way.


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## foxbat

Ticker said:


> We listen to do more from one ear and out it goes from the other with no more.



That is the normal outcome when there is nothing left in between the 2 ears

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## ajtr

Sher Malang said:


> You should stop wondering and living in a wonder land.


take any report after cross border attacks on FC.


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## foxbat

ajtr said:


> not wonder sher malang sahib..India has already been attacked by afghanis uzbekis etc throughout 1990s in kashmir.coldwar era mujahids were diverted to india after the defeat of ussr and its no secret.



But more recently, Pakistan seems to have become the favorite hunting ground for Afghans who are now sick of Pakistani interference in their country.


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## Fanto

Ticker said:


> We listen to do more from one ear and out it goes from the other with no more. But yes the Americans will be our neighbours for a long time and they do understand our importance.



I think Importance change more frequently with time as compare to Respect and Friendship. 

I think You are losing Respect of America and Friendship , This importance is not much Important to accomplish important Goal of Pakistan so more important thing is you should give importance to important things like respect and Friendship not to attractant only Importance of important country like America.

this is my important theory


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## ajtr

Sher Malang said:


> That's true Pakistan has exploited the true feelings of Afghan people by encouraging them to fight against evil hindu country last time I visited Indian controlled Kashmir a Kashmiri man asked me to meet other Afghans there, I asked who? he said they are here to fight Indian army.
> 
> So as long as Indian army is giving a strong defense to it's borders from those lunatics nothing will go the other way.


I thik there are over 2-3 lakhs afghanis in india.and having such a big bit population is always a security risk to india keeping in mind whats happening to nato soldiers in afghanistan where ANA soldiers are killing them.

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## foxbat

ajtr said:


> I thik there are over 2-3 lakhs afghanis in india.and having such a big bit population is always a security risk to india keeping in mind whats happening to nato soldiers in afghanistan where ANA soldiers are killing them.



Afghani guests have been India from the days of Kabuli wala.. Do not worry too much about us... Target your worry internally where Pakistanis are blowing up Pakistanis daily or are killing each other regularly in places like Karachi and Balochistan.. I hear 4 Shias were gunned down today as well..

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## Ticker

Fanto said:


> I think Importance change more frequently with time as compare to Respect and Friendship.
> 
> I think You are losing Respect of America and Friendship , This importance is not much Important to accomplish important Goal of Pakistan so more important thing is you should give importance to important things like respect and Friendship not to attractant only Importance of important country like America.
> 
> this is my important theory



There are no permanent friends between nation states as there are no permanent enemies.



foxbat said:


> Afghani guests have been India from the days of *Kabuli wala*.. Do not worry too much about us... Target your worry internally where Pakistanis are blowing up Pakistanis daily or are killing each other regularly in places like Karachi and Balochistan.. I hear 4 Shias were gunned down today as well..


----------



## Fanto

ajtr said:


> I thik there are over 2-3 lakhs afghanis in india.and having such a big bit population is always a security risk to india keeping in mind whats happening to nato soldiers in afghanistan where ANA soldiers are killing them.



They are better than Indian and Pakistani Muslims , Take example Sanjay Khan . they are mixed with indian , there is no refugee "camps" of Afghans in india , so there is no security risk . And they are also more secular than native Muslims.


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## INDIC

Ticker said:


> We listen to do more from one ear and out it goes from the other with no more. But yes the Americans will be our neighbours for a long time and they do understand our importance.



My point was 2014 has become 2024 now, 12 years in the future, so , picture abhi baki hai mere dost.


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## ajtr

foxbat said:


> Afghani guests have been India from the days of Kabuli wala.. Do not worry too much about us... Target your worry internally where Pakistanis are blowing up Pakistanis daily or are killing each other regularly in places like Karachi and Balochistan.. I hear 4 Shias were gunned down today as well..


kabuliwala is recent phenomenon of tagore days.Afghanis have been attacking /ruling india for centuries.did you forgot mahmood of ghazani who looted your temples or did you forgot mama shakuni from gandhar during mahabarta,or dod you forget sher shah suri of famous GT road.

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## Ticker

foxbat said:


> But more recently, Pakistan seems to have become the favorite hunting ground for Afghans who are now sick of Pakistani interference in their country.



There are over two million Afghans in Pakistan since the Soviets invaded Afghanistan.


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## foxbat

Ticker said:


> Who is or was Kabuli wala.



Kabuliwala (1957 film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## INDIC

Ticker said:


> There are no permanent friends between nation states as there are no permanent enemies.
> 
> 
> 
> Who is or was Kabuli wala.



Kabuliwala is the story written by Tagore and every one of us read it in our school. There is even a Hindi movie on the story.


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## Fanto

ajtr said:


> kabuliwala is recent phenomenon of tagore days.Afghanis have been attacking /ruling india for centuries.



No afghan Ruled India , They were gorilla Fighters Hit and Run policy.


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## ajtr

Gigawatt said:


> My point was 2014 has become 2024 now, 12 years in the future, so , picture abhi baki hai mere dost.


americans will be in afghan prison for next 12 yrs restricted to their bases in main cities.It will be like they be prisoners in the Guantanamo of taliban.............


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## RazPaK

*To quote a member Abu Zolfiqar:*



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> funny thing is, the indians were the one who openly supported and backed the soviet invasion of Afghanistan and then claim it was Pakistan that "destroyed" Afghanistan
> 
> Here are some facts and figures for our "esteemed", rather rambunctious indian guests on this forum:
> 
> 
> --Most successful professionals in today&#8217;s Afghan society studied in Pakistan. They dominate the work place not only in government offices, international organizations and NGOs but also as professionals, businessmen, and skilled and semi-skilled workers.
> 
> --Afghan graduates from Pakistani universities are paid significantly higher salaries than graduates from any other neighboring country.
> 
> --Pakistan is further providing 2,000 fully funded graduate and post-graduate scholarships to Afghan students in its institutions of higher learning over the next four years. The placements are being made in ten different fields from medicine to IT to agriculture. The first batch of the students under this programme had already left for Pakistan early this year.
> 
> --Providing consistent and across the board education and capacity building opportunities is Pakistan&#8217;s greatest gift to the people of Afghanistan and it is considered so innate that it is hardly mentioned in any discourse in Kabul. Of course the propaganda artists (with their vested interests) hide this "shameful" statistic from their youth
> 
> --Another important area where Pakistan has been of unlimited help to the people of Afghanistan is healthcare. Afghans are provided free medical care in Pakistan&#8217;s government hospitals, a facility that is not even available to a chunk of our own nationals!!
> 
> --Over 90 percent of Afghans who seek medical treatment abroad visit Pakistan. Most of the Afghan patients opt for free treatment at government or philanthropic healthcare facilities. Moneyed Afghan patients are welcomed by many countries but for their less fortunate compatriots only Pakistan has kept its doors opened.
> 
> --40 percent of patients in Peshawar&#8217;s major government hospitals and 11 percent patients in tertiary hospitals all over Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province are Afghans; over 50 percent patients in major government hospitals in Quetta are Afghan nationals; and two Pakistani philanthropic hospitals perform free eye surgeries on about 30,000 Afghans every year.
> 
> --Since 2001, Pakistan has also played an active, but unpublicized, role in Afghanistan&#8217;s reconstruction and providing humanitarian assistance.
> 
> Following are some of the major assistance projects which Pakistan had completed, or about to complete:
> 
> 1. A state of the art Allama Iqbal Faculty at Kabul University is completed.
> 2. As a separate project, the Government of Pakistan is furnishing the Iqbal Faculty building.
> 3. The building of Sir Syed Science Faculty Block is near completion in Nangarhar University, Jalalabad.
> 4. The structure of Liaqat Ali Khan Engineering Faculty in Balkh University, Mazar-e-Sharif is almost complete.
> 5. Rehman Baba High School in Kabul was completed, where 1200 students are currently enrolled.
> 6. As another project on the same campus, hostel for 1000 students is under construction.
> 7. Donated buses for the students of Kabul University.
> 8. A sprawling Jinnah Hospital Complex with ten towers is under construction in Kabul. It will provide the most modern health facility in the country.
> 9. Civil work on Nishter Kidney Hospital in Jalalabad is completed. Afghan doctors, paramedics and technicians to run this facility are also trained in Pakistan.
> 10. A 200 bed Naib Aminullah Khan Logari Hospital is under construction in Logar.
> 11. Donated mobile field hospitals and ambulances to several provinces.
> 12. Construction of Torkham-Jalalabad Road in eastern Afghanistan is completed.
> 13. On request of the Afghan Government, Pakistan has undertaken to convert Torkham-Jalalabad road in a dual carriage highway. About 60 percent work is already completed on this project.
> 14. Built three intra-city roads in Jalalabad.
> 15. Provided earth-moving and road building machinery to various provinces.
> 16. Donated fifty buses for public transportation.
> 17. Provided cash assistance to the Afghan Government.
> 18. Distributed food packages to the needy and school supplies to students in large numbers.
> 
> Several other major projects, including two Eye Hospitals, Limb Centre at Badakhshan, two Nuclear Medical Centers in Kabul and Jalalabad, are either ongoing or in the pipeline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> such evil destruction we are waging on Afghanistan!
> 
> 
> 
> fact of the matter is, we've done more for Afghanistan than what they've done for themselves.....and then as soon as they walk back across the border they abuse us and claim we are the cause of all their ills (thanks in part to enemy propaganda and brain-washing)




*The Afghans are indeed a treacherous ehsan farmosh people. Now they have started playing with fire.

By teaming up and becoming an Indian stooge their country will once again be in ruin.*

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## foxbat

ajtr said:


> kabuliwala is recent phenomenon of tagore days.Afghanis have been attacking /ruling india for centuries.did you forgot mahmood of ghazani who looted your temples or did you forgot mama shakuni from gandhar during mahabarta,or dod you forget sher shah suri of famous GT road.



So you are referring to the time when Pakistan was a part of India? Guess they screwed present day Pakistan more than they did India since their expeditions were limited to present day Pakistan and northern part of present day India. 

---removing this since some people got too emotional about a harmless suggestion----

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## Ticker

Gigawatt said:


> My point was 2014 has become 2024 now, 12 years in the future, so , picture abhi baki hai mere dost.



Let them stay there. I think it is important that they stay there and help Pakistan to effect stability in Afghanistan. However, India's role unfortunately would be limited to, Oye Chotay Cha Leya.

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## ajtr

Fanto said:


> No afghan Ruled India , They were gorilla Fighters Hit and Run policy.

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## INDIC

Ticker said:


> Let them stay there. I think it is important that they stay there and help Pakistan to effect stability in Afghanistan. However, India's role unfortunately would be limited to, Oye Chotay Cha Leya.



Even our limited role without any Indian troop is the concern for Pakistan.


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## foxbat

Ticker said:


> Let them stay there. I think it is important that they stay there and help Pakistan to effect stability in Afghanistan. However, India's role unfortunately would be limited to, Oye Chotay Cha Leya.



Cha for the drone pilot who would have bombed Pakistani citizens a few minutes back or for the erstwhile Pakistani asset (Taliban) who would have blown up a couple of Pakistani airforce / navy planes... As long as they hurt Pakistan, giving them tea is really no problem.. We will also add complementary biscuits to go with that tea .



ajtr said:


> americans will be in afghan prison for next 12 yrs restricted to their bases in main cities.It will be like they be prisoners in the Guantanamo of taliban.............



As long as they are directing drone attacks on Pakistani soil from their bases, that's good enough..The end objective after all is to hurt Pakistan. Right?

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## foxbat

Dude.. What's wrong with my post. Have I said a single disrespectful thing to her or to her family?

Ma'am AJTR, if you find my post anyway offensive, please tell me and i will gladly apologize and remove it.

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## foxbat

ajtr said:


> I'm teaching my child the glorious islamic history ala Abhimanyu of mahabarata style now i cant do the mistake like subhadra to fall asleep and leave the lesson incomplete which later can become a question of like and death as was in case of abhimanyu(he knew how to enter the chakravhyu but didnt knew how to get out coz he learnt incomplete lesson)



For a muslim, your knowledge of Hindu scriptures is pretty good.. Nice to know.


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## RazPaK

Ticker said:


> barray khush hotay ho. ha ha ha ....... auqat phir bhi chaye pilanay walay ki hi rahay gi.
> 
> Saara pind vi mar jaye *Chaudhary fer vi nahin bano gay*
> 
> ha ha ha

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## foxbat

Ticker said:


> barray khush hotay ho. ha ha ha ....... auqat phir bhi chaye pilanay walay ki hi rahay gi.
> 
> Saara pind vi mar jaye Chaudhary fer vi nahin bano gay
> 
> ha ha ha



Koi nayi pappe... Starbucks bhi to chai hi pilata hai but has annual revenue 5 times Pakistan's defence budget. Chai pilane wale ko kam mat samajhna ... HA HA HA

*in other words, Pakistan's defence budget is smaller than the revenue of a chai wala*

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## foxbat

Ticker said:


> ha ha ha .......... abhi aur ghussa ayega



Kyoon?? Main bhi converted hoon...



ajtr said:


> im converted one



Ah! no wonder ... Marriage ??

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## Fanto

ajtr said:


>




hehehhehe....5 year rule this must be one of smallest rule in India , it's more shame than pride . Before that Afghan was part of India , Indians ruled it thousands of years


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## RazPaK

ajtr said:


> Chaudhary kinnay banana c .assi tey converted pathan han......



Shakal to pataa lagda tu kadi vi chaudrain ney ho sak di.

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## ajtr

Fanto said:


> hehehhehe....5 year rule this must be one of smallest rule in India , it's more shame than pride .


Rule to rule hai chahe sher shah suri ka 5 yrs ka ho ya fir vajpayee ka 13 days ka........

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## foxbat

Fanto said:


> hehehhehe....5 year rule this must be one of smallest rule in India , it's more shame than pride .



Someone show them the photo of Maharaja Ranjit singh and the location of his capital

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## Fanto

ajtr said:


> Rule to rule hai chahe sher shah suri ka 5 yrs ........



ji nahi ye to shame hai , aaj kal ki sarkare bhi 5 sal se jada chalati


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## RazPaK

ajtr said:


> mianu chaudrain nai hona c.Mainu tey chaudray noo chooriyan pahnana c....



Ja ja kam kar aunty. Ney teh oh chooriyan tere banday nu pawaoun gah.

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## ajtr

everyone delete ur off topics if you dont want to get infractions from aeronaut..................

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## RazPaK

Point is the Indians are using Afghanistan for their own nefarious designs, while the mayor of Kabul is going along with the whole plan. The people of Afghanistan are being brainwashed and being bought out by third class cellular phones and money. 

The Indians want to launch attacks from Afghanistan into Pakistan. We can not allow this to happen. Obviously Afghanistan will be turned into rubble once again If they decide to compromise Pakistan's security by sleeping with the enemy.


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## anilindia

This has again became India vs Pakistan thread thanks to some members...
It has many side effects also........
Effects Of Negative Thinking

Positive and Negative Thoughts May Affect Fetal Genetics | Other Ways of Healing | Health | Epoch Times


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## Paan Singh

RazPaK said:


> Point is the Indians are using Afghanistan for their own nefarious designs, while the mayor of Kabul is going along with the whole plan. The people of Afghanistan are being brainwashed and being bought out by third class cellular phones and money.
> 
> The Indians want to launch attacks from Afghanistan into Pakistan. We can not allow this to happen. Obviously Afghanistan will be turned into rubble once again If they decide to compromise Pakistan's security by sleeping with the enemy.



People are not brainwashed,they already hate u or dont like you.Even they live in pakistan but still hate pakistan.so india is responsible for it?


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## RazPaK

TeriShirtDaButton said:


> People are not brainwashed,they already hate u or dont like you.Even they live in pakistan but still hate pakistan.so india is responsible for it?



And you know the ones living in Pakistan hate Pakistan, how?

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## Fanto

RazPaK said:


> The Indians want to launch attacks from Afghanistan into Pakistan. We can not allow this to happen. Obviously Afghanistan will be turned into rubble once again If they decide to compromise Pakistan's security by sleeping with the enemy.



Where r u ? India wants to attack pak through Afghan ? Country which facing problems since last 5 decade.

Hmmm.. I think Geography is not subject in Pakistan.

Do you know there is Surprise for u 

India Pakistan Share border !!!!!!

so no need to attack through Afghanistan.


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## Mitro

Gigawatt said:


> My point was 2014 has become 2024 now, 12 years in the future, so , picture abhi baki hai mere dost.



In last Thursday's candidates' debate, Vice President Biden was crystal clear on his view of the administration's Afghanistan policy: *America's combat commitment to president Hamid Karzai's government ends in 2014. "We are leaving in 2014"full stop.*

And Biden took aim at the "nuance" of the Romney position. "My friend [Ryan] and the governor say it's based on conditions, which means 'it depends.' It does not 'depend' for us."

For Biden, ten years of backing Afghanistan's anti-Taliban majority are enough. "It is the responsibility of the Afghans to take care of their own security." He wouldn't say it, but the implication was clear: if the Kabul coalition cannot hold together with its vastly expanded if low-energy army, it can't expect Americans to give their lives to keep it on life support. "It's their responsibility, not America's."


Afghanistan in the Obama-Romney Gap &mdash; The Century Foundation

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## Paan Singh

RazPaK said:


> And you know the ones living in Pakistan hate Pakistan, how?



I have communicated with people who are living inside pakistan and even in A-stan...  ..

not only 2-3 or 10 ...its more than 30+ and they dont hold +ve views..


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## karan21

RazPaK said:


> Point is the Indians are using Afghanistan for their own nefarious designs, while the mayor of Kabul is going along with the whole plan. The people of Afghanistan are being brainwashed and being bought out by third class cellular phones and money.
> 
> The Indians want to launch attacks from Afghanistan into Pakistan. We can not allow this to happen. Obviously Afghanistan will be turned into rubble once again If they decide to compromise Pakistan's security by sleeping with the enemy.



We are building their infrastructure, hospitals, schools, roads and electricity sector and dams. . We are building their railways and connectiong iran and afghan to India. We are helping a war torn country with AId. Providing them a source of entertainment called bollywood. There are no Indian armed boots in Afghan. Yes we do have intelligence operations there with Talibanis and Balochis, but India right now is not capable of launching attack on Pak. One day we will be able to do that too. Our operations there will increase and no one can stop us period. All you can do is .


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## humanfirst

RazPaK said:


> Point is the Indians are using Afghanistan for their own nefarious designs, while the mayor of Kabul is going along with the whole plan. The people of Afghanistan are being brainwashed and being bought out by third class cellular phones and money.
> 
> The Indians want to launch attacks from Afghanistan into Pakistan. We can not allow this to happen. Obviously Afghanistan will be turned into rubble once again If they decide to compromise Pakistan's security by sleeping with the enemy.



India will continue to stay in afghanistan and you are free to whine about that..Any more terror attacks by your proxies will be retaliated by 10 times worse attacks..


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## anilindia

RazPaK said:


> And you know the ones living in Pakistan hate Pakistan, how?



current case in pak supreme court


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## foxbat

Fanto said:


> ji nahi ye to shame hai , aaj kal ki sarkare bhi 5 sal se jada chalati



Not in Pakistan.. This will hopefully be the 1st govt in Pakistan's 65 years's history to complete its term.. That's why Pakistanis think 5 years rule is a big deal


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## INDIC

Czar786 said:


> In last Thursday's candidates' debate, Vice President Biden was crystal clear on his view of the administration's Afghanistan policy: *America's combat commitment to president Hamid Karzai's government ends in 2014. "We are leaving in 2014"&#8212;full stop.*
> Afghanistan in the Obama-Romney Gap &mdash; The Century Foundation



It means *only American combat troops* are leaving by 2014, after that ANA will be in complete defence of whole of Afghanistan(right now ANA is in control of half of Afghanistan), other Americans defence related staffs will stay in Afghanistan till 2024.


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## foxbat

RazPaK said:


> Point is the Indians are using Afghanistan for their own nefarious designs, while the mayor of Kabul is going along with the whole plan. The people of Afghanistan are being brainwashed and being bought out by third class cellular phones and money.
> 
> The Indians want to launch attacks from Afghanistan into Pakistan. We can not allow this to happen. Obviously Afghanistan will be turned into rubble once again If they decide to compromise Pakistan's security by sleeping with the enemy.




There is no attack being planned on Pakistan from Afghanistan. The Indian policy is simply to remove/reduce Pakistani influence on its north western border so as to deny it strategic depth. And frankly India has been doing this in a much more benign way than what Pakistan did in Kashmir. The die has been already cast.. All that can happen now is some oscillation in the extent of influence India and Pakistan will have in Afghanistan. And given the fact that India is a part of reconstruction in Afghanistan where as Pakistan is considered to be the source of Taliban extremists, India's image is far better and its influence more sustainable than Pakistan's..Take it as you will


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## Mitro

Gigawatt said:


> Joe Biden meant *only American troops* are leaving by 2014, after that ANA will be in complete defence of whole of Afghanistan(right now ANA is in control of half of Afghanistan), other Americans defence related staffs will stay in Afghanistan till 2024. It seems you haven't been following news these months.



What made you think that ANA is going to defend AF From taliban when Nato cannot do it .come out of dream and face the reality America or its allies are in no position to even keep adviser in AF after 2014 see the history how they run away from vietnam and AF in 1990's.

Green on Blue Attack has destoyed their plan to raise AF army and Train them .i think ANA will disintegrate in less then 6 - 12 months times after coalition withdraw from AF.


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## INDIC

Czar786 said:


> What made you think that ANA is going to defend AF From taliban when Nato cannot do it .come out of dream and face the reality America or its allies are in no position to even keep adviser in AF after 2014 see the history how they run away from vietnam and AF in 1990's.
> 
> Green on Blue Attack has destoyed their plan to raise AF army and Train them .i think ANA will disintegrate in less then 6 - 12 months times after coalition withdraw from AF.



ANA has already been handed large part of Afghanistan including Taliban strongholds like Helmand and Kandahar. ANA troops recently have spoiled many of the Taliban attacks. So, after years of training they are ready to take on security of Afghanistan.

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## foxbat

Czar786 said:


> What made you think that ANA is going to defend AF From taliban when Nato cannot do it .come out of dream and face the reality America or its allies are in no position to even keep adviser in AF after 2014 see the history how they run away from vietnam and AF in 1990's.
> 
> Green on Blue Attack has destoyed their plan to raise AF army and Train them .i think ANA will disintegrate in less then 6 - 12 months times after coalition withdraw from AF.



All I remember is that Pakistanis were celebrating Obama's election as they believed that he would remove NATO troops from Afg by 2011. 2011 came and went, and the troop strength only increased. 2014 is still 2 years away.. lets see how the ball rolls.. All I see is that iraq is still ruled by a pro USA govt. Dont think Afg will be any different.


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## Mitro

karan21 said:


> We are building their infrastructure, hospitals, schools, roads and electricity sector and dams. . We are building their railways and connectiong iran and afghan to India. We are helping a war torn country with AId. Providing them a source of entertainment called bollywood. There are no Indian armed boots in Afghan. Yes we do have intelligence operations there with Talibanis and Balochis, but India right now is not capable of launching attack on Pak. One day we will be able to do that too. Our operations there will increase and no one can stop us period. All you can do is .



And who is going to build our infrastructure i guess "Chinese" ,we dont have hospital,school and electricity in our villages our children are malnourish worse than africa and largest population perform daily ritual of open defecation in the world .and how you are going to connect iran - AF - India without pakistan

forget about attacking from north or west we cannot do it today or tomorrow .we can use proxy till american are in AF once they Depart our asset in AF becomes vulnerable and wont be effective.

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## foxbat

Czar786 said:


> And who is going to build our infrastructure i guess "Chinese" ,we dont have hospital,school and electricity in our villages our children are malnourish worse than africa and largest population perform daily ritual of open defecation in the world .and how you are going to connect iran - AF - India without pakistan
> 
> forget about attacking from north or west we cannot do it today or tomorrow .we can use proxy till american are in AF once they Depart our asset in AF becomes vulnerable and wont be effective.



When do you plan to change to your real flags ??


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## Mitro

foxbat said:


> All I remember is that Pakistanis were celebrating Obama's election as they believed that he would remove NATO troops from Afg by 2011. 2011 came and went, and the troop strength only increased. 2014 is still 2 years away.. lets see how the ball rolls.. All I see is that iraq is still ruled by a pro USA govt. Dont think Afg will be any different.



You talk about iraq is going away from US and buying arms from Russia and bringing russia oil giants in iraq .Iraq dont see at US its moving towards Iran ,russia and china .


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## Mitro

foxbat said:


> When do you plan to change to your real flags ??



its so sad that i have to prove again again that i Am a indian .
i am just expressing my opinion i may be wrong but i have my rights to freedom of speech .

Me Mumbaikar Aahe


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## Agnostic_Indian

Czar786 said:


> And who is going to build our infrastructure i guess "Chinese" ,we dont have hospital,school and electricity in our villages our children are malnourish worse than africa and largest population perform daily ritual of open defecation in the world .and how you are going to connect iran - AF - India without pakistan
> 
> forget about attacking from north or west we cannot do it today or tomorrow .we can use proxy till american are in AF once they Depart our asset in AF becomes vulnerable and wont be effective.



were the Americans spending the surplus money ?

were the Chinese done with all their needs so that they give soft loans to many countries ? No, every country does it with some purpose which is financial,strategic, military gains and building up good will and relationship.


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## INDIC

Czar786 said:


> And who is going to build our infrastructure i guess "Chinese" ,we dont have hospital,school and electricity in our villages our children are malnourish worse than africa and largest population perform daily ritual of open defecation in the world .and how you are going to connect iran - AF - India without pakistan
> 
> forget about attacking from north or west we cannot do it today or tomorrow .we can use proxy till american are in AF once they Depart our asset in AF becomes vulnerable and wont be effective.



The amount we spent in Afghanistan is too low compared to our own requirement. 2 billions usd in 10 years or 200 millions/year, even Pakistan had spend 500 million usd in Afghanistan. Stability of Afghanistan is most necessary for the whole region, so this much spending by GoI is not bad.

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## Rafi

we all know indians and india are a soft nation, no need to worry.

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## illusion8

Rafi said:


> we all know indians and india are a soft nation, no need to worry.



I agree with you on that part.We are definitely a soft nation.


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## Abhishek_

Rafi said:


> we all know indians and india are a soft nation, no need to worry.


quoted for truth

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## Mitro

Fanto said:


> even after all these problems , we considered as a Fourth largest economy in world. Pakistan ? day by day downwards....heheh
> 
> On the reality check button in your brain people standard of living in this forth largest economy is no where near a develop country people are not able to feed themshelves they are malnourised ,public education sucks "municipalty school ,parents send their children to government school so the kid can have a midday meal and municipalty hospital sucks Travelling in mumbai train is like going in the war, buses are jampack more then half population lives in jhopadpatti SLum .
> 
> what is the point of progress when our population cannot taste and enjoy it.there are still so many village where there is no water they have to go long distance just fetch the water,no electricity ,no roads,no doctors.
> 
> Economy progress in india is just on paper we were slaves before and we are slaves today thats the reality.
> 
> 
> 
> foxbat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personal attacks are the last refuge of the incompetent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You started
Click to expand...


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## Agnostic_Indian

illusion8 said:


> People like that are called false flaggers around here and there are plenty here acting as Indians - you are new here, aahiste aahiste samaj jaoge.



and they try desperately to pose like a self critical Indian, they may be wise but we are no fools either.


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## khail007

Czar786 said:


> its so sad that i have to prove again again that i Am a indian .
> i am just expressing my opinion i may be wrong but i have my rights to freedom of speech .
> 
> Me Mumbaikar Aahe




So if you are an Indian, adopt the same stance/language as other Indians are comfortable with or desire. If you are going to be honest then every time you will have to prove your flag to them.

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## Mitro

khail007 said:


> So if you are an Indian, adopt the same stance/language as other Indians are comfortable with or desire. If you are going to be honest then every time you will have to prove your flag to them.



Some of my country men are sick of disease call hatrat and ignorance they dont see whats going around them but wants to live in fantacy call bollywood .

And who gives a F*** what they think about me or my nationality.

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## Kazhugu

ajtr said:


> he is indian........



a nominal indian at best.........or might belong to this category...Pakistanis pose as Indians after NY bomb scare



Czar786 said:


> Some of my country men are sick of disease call hatrat and ignorance they dont see whats going around them but wants to live in fantacy call bollywood .



no...they are just sick of those who missed the train in '47 and continue to harbor the pakistaniyat in their hearts while flashing around their indian passports........


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## Mitro

Kazhugu said:


> indian by flag.........
> 
> 
> 
> no...they are just sick of those who missed the train in '47 and continue to harbor the pakistaniyat in their hearts while flashing around their indian passports........



Sorry mate you have to live with these sickness all your and your grandchildren life forever hahahaha

Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. ~Chinese Proverb


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## Kazhugu

Czar786 said:


> Sorry mate you have to live with these sickness all your and your grandchildren life forever hahahaha
> 
> Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. ~Chinese Proverb



i can live.....the question then is is can you and your ilk live without moaning every now and then..."oh i have to prove my patriotism"...


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## Desi Guy

Kazhugu said:


> i can live.....the question then is is can you and your ilk live without moaning every now and then..."oh i have to prove my patriotism"...



read the word "786" sir ..more likely he is a false flagger or his allegiance lies more with a neighboring country since he belongs to a particular religion which is better left unsaid,


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## Mitro

Kazhugu said:


> i can live.....the question is can you and your ilk live...?



Sickness is with the people who hates other because of their nationality,religion and opinion .

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## Desi Guy

Czar786 said:


> Sickness is with the people who hates other because of their nationality,religion and opinion .


Sickness is with the people who like a particular country because of religion


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## humanfirst

post deleted..


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## humanfirst

Rafi said:


> we all know indians and india are a soft nation, no need to worry.



Not enough soft to allow a foreign nation to rape our sovereignity day in and out and do nothing about it(apart from threatening to shoot down next drone)..


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## humanfirst

Czar786 said:


> its so sad that i have to prove again again that i Am a indian .
> i am just expressing my opinion i may be wrong but i have my rights to freedom of speech .
> 
> Me Mumbaikar Aahe



You sad about questioned of your nationality..?

Every post of you reeks with intention to malign india and glorify pakistan,many with half truths and illogical arguements,common **** conspiracy theories and made up facts(especially in defence equipments).What is so sad about your true flags being questioned..?
Apart from your clearly visible intentions in every single post of you,I dont think an indian will post stuff like..


Czar786 said:


> we are going to loose our investment and we have *run from afghanistan in lang goti *.


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## imperialmen

Czar786 said:


> And who is going to build our infrastructure i guess "Chinese" ,we dont have hospital,school and electricity in our villages our children are malnourish worse than africa and largest population perform daily ritual of open defecation in the world .and how you are going to connect iran - AF - India without pakistan
> 
> forget about attacking from north or west we cannot do it today or tomorrow .we can use proxy till american are in AF once they Depart our asset in AF becomes vulnerable and wont be effective.



It couldn't have been more clear that you are not an Indian. The underlined sentences show it.


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## ajtr

humanfirst said:


> Not enough soft to allow a foreign nation to rape our sovereignity day in and out and do nothing about it(apart from threatening to shoot down next drone)..


soft enough to toss the dossiers.....................


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## foxbat

ajtr said:


> soft enough to toss the dossiers.....................




One would be foolish to believe that the only reaction to 26/11 was the bunch of dossiers that were sent..Some reactions are explicit for show... others not so explicit, but with much more teeth.


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## Srinivas

Looks like General Hamid Gul is very right is assessing situation in Afghanistan-Pakistan and It is always a surprise when India and Pakistan agrees to end hostilities in Sub continent and make peace, some terror activity occurs immediately in India to negate it.

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## Mitro

khail007 said:


> So if you are an Indian, adopt the same stance/language as other Indians are comfortable with or desire. If you are going to be honest then every time you will have to prove your flag to them.



Don't pay attention to this Internet Hindu they are doing wonderfull job for their master "BJP" and particularly MODI the butcher 

journalists and bloggers rightly described Internet Hindus as "loonies", "online friends of the BJP", "fanatics", "Hindu Taliban" and "gutter snipes"

only one way to react to Internet Hindu is to ignore them. No one listens to them outside their own echo chambers. there is a old Internet saying: Never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and the pig enjoys it."

Most of indian are secular minded and very friendly and when we are outside of our country we all Indian,Pakistani,Bangladeshi are called Desi .Most of this Internet Hindus Have hardly gone out of their country ,They are like Frog in a well mentality.


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## foxbat

Czar786 said:


> Don't pay attention to this Internet Hindu they are doing wonderfull job for their master "BJP" and particularly MODI the butcher
> 
> journalists and bloggers rightly described Internet Hindus as "loonies", "online friends of the BJP", "fanatics", "Hindu Taliban" and "gutter snipes"
> 
> only one way to react to Internet Hindu is to ignore them. No one listens to them outside their own echo chambers. there is a old Internet saying: Never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and the pig enjoys it."
> 
> Most of indian are secular minded and very friendly and when we are outside of our country we all Indian,Pakistani,Bangladeshi are called Desi .Most of this Internet Hindus Have hardly gone out of their country ,They are like Frog in a well mentality.



Whatever Internet Hindus may be, they are not ashamed of their flag and dont feel the need to color their views to seem as if they are coming from a different country.

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## illusion8

Czar786 said:


> Don't pay attention to this Internet Hindu they are doing wonderfull job for their master "BJP" and particularly MODI the butcher
> 
> journalists and bloggers rightly described Internet Hindus as "loonies", "online friends of the BJP", "fanatics", "Hindu Taliban" and "gutter snipes"
> 
> only one way to react to Internet Hindu is to ignore them. No one listens to them outside their own echo chambers. there is a old Internet saying: Never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and the pig enjoys it."
> 
> Most of indian are secular minded and very friendly and when we are outside of our country we all Indian,Pakistani,Bangladeshi are called Desi .Most of this Internet Hindus Have hardly gone out of their country ,They are like Frog in a well mentality.



Seems you are doing a cr@ppy job for your master, false flagging on a forum is an art but sadly you suck at it. 

And, if by some messed up twist of faith you indeed are an Indian then u should really hate your parents for not getting on the 1947 train, better not come back to India for our sake, people like you can be easily recruited to become a suicide bomber.

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## MilSpec

*ATTN: TaimiKhan (Sen Moderator)

This thread based on loose allegation and zero proof will continue for days, I wonder what will happen if similar thread was opened to discuss well reported role of pakistan in afghanistan?

ATTN: Icarus (chair Think Tank); when no substantial evidence is provided for certain events, it seems you term it as conspiracy theory and request to close such threads as seen in past, I wonder if such rhetoric is country specific?

Without a shred of evidence; the author and pakistani members alike are Maligning india's role, and the OP is a moderator too.*

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## foxbat

sandy_3126 said:


> *ATTN: TaimiKhan (Sen Moderator)
> 
> This thread based on loose allegation and zero proof will continue for days, I wonder what will happen if similar thread was opened to discuss well reported role of pakistan in afghanistan?
> 
> ATTN: Icarus (chair Think Tank); when no substantial evidence is provided for certain events, it seems you term it as conspiracy theory and request to close such threads as seen in past, I wonder if such rhetoric is country specific?
> 
> Without a shred of evidence; the author and pakistani members alike are Maligning india's role, and the OP is a moderator too.*



Well the Forum is a Pakistani defense forum dude.. So it will obviously cater to the Pakistani POV. However it does provide for people to rebut that POV as long as the rebuttal is not too uncomfortable. If the playing rules are not something that's acceptable to you, I suggest you find another forum.. Sorry for being blunt but that's what it is (my view .. not the forum policy )

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## MilSpec

Aeronaut said:


> Its India sitting in our neighbor's house not Pakistan sitting in India's, that makes India an adversary.



If you are looking for ghosts, you will definitely find them ... maybe what needs to be examined is how does; schools hospitals and infrastructure stem into pakistani paranoia


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## foxbat

Aeronaut said:


> Its India sitting in our neighbor's house not Pakistan sitting in India's, that makes India an adversary.



Do you normally stand outside your house watching your neighbor's house to classify all his guests as your adversaries ?? Kind of weird ...


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## Dazzler

foxbat said:


> Well the Forum is a Pakistani defense forum dude.. So it will obviously cater to the Pakistani POV. However it does provide for people to rebut that POV as long as the rebuttal is not too uncomfortable. If the playing rules are not something that's acceptable to you, I suggest you find another forum.. Sorry for being blunt but that's what it is (my view .. not the forum policy )



This "Pakistani" forum allows more space to express views and elaborate to all members regardless of their nationality more than most "Indian" fora which is a fact and i say this by my personal experience. On topic, Kandahar embassy is the hub of Indian subversive activities particularly in Baluchistan which is again, a fact unless you refute the obvious. 

As per FC commander in Baluchistan, atleast 12 foreign agencies are involved including Research and Analysis Wing.


Edit, he is a baluch and a bugti, exposing the traitors without fear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb4ejL5hPWA

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## Gandhi G in da house

nabil_05 said:


> This "Pakistani" forum allows more space to express views and elaborate to all members regardless of their nationality more than most "Indian" fora which is a fact and i say this by my personal experience.* On topic, Kandahar embassy is the hub of Indian subversive activities particularly in Baluchistan which is again, a fact unless you refute the obvious.
> 
> As per FC commander in Baluchistan, atleast 12 foreign agencies are involved including Research and Analysis Wing.*
> 
> 
> Edit, he is a baluch and a bugti, exposing the traitors without fear...
> 
> A *BALOCH* exposes the *MEDIA PROPAGANDA* on Balochistan against Pakistan *MUST WATCH* - YouTube



Where is the proof for the bold part ? It doesn't become a fact just because you or a FC commander said it .

We have been hearing since 2008 that we would be shown proof of our sub-versive activites in Afghanistan but nothing has come our way . 4 years is a long time .

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## Dazzler

nick_indian said:


> Where is the proof for the bold part ? It doesn't become a fact just because you or a FC commander said it .
> 
> We have been hearing since 2008 that we would be shown proof of our sub-versive activites in Afghanistan but nothing has come our way . 4 years is a long time .



Proof of RAW involvement in terror acts given to India | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia | DAWN.COM

Vijayvaani.com

Missing persons: ISI, MI counsel says RAW and Mossad involved &#8211; The Express Tribune

http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...Aechf6bQncWRT5UMQ&sig2=t-blkCOvhPwq5JIuiC-aVA

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## foxbat

nabil_05 said:


> Proof of RAW involvement in terror acts given to India | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia | DAWN.COM
> 
> Vijayvaani.com
> 
> Missing persons: ISI, MI counsel says RAW and Mossad involved  The Express Tribune
> 
> http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...Aechf6bQncWRT5UMQ&sig2=t-blkCOvhPwq5JIuiC-aVA



A dossier ?? ... How many have been given to Pakistan??

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## Dazzler

foxbat said:


> A dossier ?? ... How many have been given to Pakistan??



denial mode. 

who is sending these?

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-n...2/huge-cache-of-arms-recovered-in-balochistan

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2012\08\08\story_8-8-2012_pg7_9


http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/201...expose-us-indian-interference-in-balochistan/

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## foxbat

nabil_05 said:


> denial mode.



by Pakistan actually 

Pak now says no Baloch dossier was given to India - Rediff.com India News

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## MilSpec

nabil_05 said:


> denial mode.



What happens when similar reports from Msnbc, cnn, bbc, US state dept, new yorker, washington post, the guardian, La times are posted with a very different conjecture, how do you treat that?

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## Gandhi G in da house

nabil_05 said:


> Proof of RAW involvement in terror acts given to India | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia | DAWN.COM
> 
> Vijayvaani.com
> 
> Missing persons: ISI, MI counsel says RAW and Mossad involved  The Express Tribune
> 
> http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...Aechf6bQncWRT5UMQ&sig2=t-blkCOvhPwq5JIuiC-aVA



No dossier was given to India , your own officials admitted it . You need to update yourself .

The rest of the links are no proof . Just claims made by ISI

You'll need something stronger

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## Dazzler

sandy_3126 said:


> What happens when similar reports from Msnbc, cnn, bbc, US state dept, new yorker, washington post, the guardian, La times are posted with a very different conjecture, how do you treat that?



Nothing can be done if one has his eyes closed. Its a shame to deny the obvious. Indian weapons have been recovered multiple times from border regions by FC personnel. Saw them on news many a times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-6rzW2Xwik


another.... 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYxT1qzo_eg


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## Gandhi G in da house

nabil_05 said:


> Nothing can be done if one has his eyes closed. Its a shame to deny the obvious. Indian weapons have been recovered multiple times from border regions by FC personnel. Saw them on news many a times.
> 
> Operation Khawakh Bade Sham : Indian origin Arms & ammunition included Mines and mortars recovered - YouTube
> 
> 
> another....
> 
> 
> Heavy weapon recovered, smuggler arrested on identification of BLA terrorist in Karachi - YouTube



Firstly those videos do not prove in any way that the weapons were of Indian origin and secondly even if the were of Indian origin , it does not mean we provided them . The Kashmiri jihadis use Russian weapons against us , doesn't mean that the Russians are supporting them . So , either way this proof will not hold water in any court .

Get such news reports from neutral sources and then perhaps we can start taking them seriously .

It's a shame to deny the obvious but there is nothing obvious about Pakistan's claims .


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## Dazzler

nick_indian said:


> Firstly those videos do not prove in any way that the weapons were of Indian origin and secondly even if the were of Indian origin , it does not mean we provided them . The Kashmiri jihadis use Russian weapons against us , doesn't mean that the Russians are supporting them . So , either way this proof will not hold water in any court .
> 
> Get such news reports from neutral sources and then perhaps we can start taking them seriously .
> 
> It's a shame to deny the obvious but there is nothing obvious about Pakistan's claims .




Absolutely!

FC invaded one of their own depot and showed it to media, but then, they never had AAAs. No point in presenting anything more.

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## MilSpec

nabil_05 said:


> Nothing can be done if one has his eyes closed. Its a shame to deny the obvious. Indian weapons have been recovered multiple times from border regions by FC personnel. Saw them on news many a times.
> 
> Operation Khawakh Bade Sham : Indian origin Arms & ammunition included Mines and mortars recovered - YouTube
> 
> 
> another....
> 
> 
> Heavy weapon recovered, smuggler arrested on identification of BLA terrorist in Karachi - YouTube



I dont see any Insas, kalantaks, excaliburs or any thing in OFB markings? There are no markings on the mine, the PKS , rpg's or the mortars to suggest indian origin. Why has not one International agency reported on this?

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## Gandhi G in da house

sandy_3126 said:


> I dont see any Insas, kalantaks, excaliburs or any thing in OFB markings? There are no markings on the mine, the PKS , rpg's or the mortars to suggest indian origin. Why has not one International agency reported on this?



Exactly what I am trying to say but he seems in denial .


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## illusion8

If India was seriously fueling Baloch movement we would have had a different map of Pakistan by now, it would have taken roughly a couple of years and it's been 8 years or so since India's in Afghanistan. 

So, NO I don't think we are even trying.


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## arbit

illusion8 said:


> If India was seriously fueling Baloch movement we would have had a different map of Pakistan by now, it would have taken roughly a couple of years and it's been 8 years or so since India's in Afghanistan.
> 
> So, NO I don't think we are even trying.



The OP is not entirely off the mark. The article is partially true. 

However the amount of effort put in is just to keep the status quo intact. Keep the wound festering, to keep them occupied. Nothing new, just what they have been doing to us for last 60 years. Karma is certainly a &#$% 

We don't want pakistan to pay much attention to its eastern borders.. too many details to go into. A retaliation to the above can be seen in an effort to revive khalistan militancy. 

But the major difference is in intention. The goal is not to form a separate entity from Pakistan but something else.


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## Mitro

nabil_05 said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> FC invaded one of their own depot and showed it to media, but then, they never had AAAs. No point in presenting anything more.



This the proof that india is involved in balochistan

US: Expert who infuriated India offered key post

In an online discussion earlier this year -- convened by the much-respected journal Foreign Affairs -- Fair had said that Pakistan had legitimate concerns about India's involvement in Afghanistan and that perhaps Islamabad's [ Images ] paranoia that New Delhi was fanning unrest in Balochistan was not unfounded.

'I think it is unfair to dismiss the notion that Pakistan's apprehensions about Afghanistan stem in part from its security competition with India,' she had then said, and noted, *"Having visited the Indian mission in Zahedan, Iran, I can assure you they are not issuing visas as the main activity. Moreover, India has run operations from its mission in Mazar and is likely doing so from the other consulates it has reopened in Jalalabad and Kandahar along the (Pak-Afghan) border*.'

Fair also went on to claim, *'Indian officials have told me privately that they are pumping money into Balochistan*. Kabul has encouraged India to engage in provocative activities such as using the Border Roads Organisation to build sensitive parts of the Rind Road and use the Indo-Tibetan police force for security.'

US: Expert who infuriated India offered key post - Rediff.com India News


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## notsuperstitious

Czar786 said:


> This the proof that india is involved in balochistan
> 
> US: Expert who infuriated India offered key post
> 
> In an online discussion earlier this year -- convened by the much-respected journal Foreign Affairs -- Fair had said that Pakistan had legitimate concerns about India's involvement in Afghanistan and that perhaps Islamabad's [ Images ] paranoia that New Delhi was fanning unrest in Balochistan was not unfounded.
> 
> 'I think it is unfair to dismiss the notion that Pakistan's apprehensions about Afghanistan stem in part from its security competition with India,' she had then said, and noted, *"Having visited the Indian mission in Zahedan, Iran, I can assure you they are not issuing visas as the main activity. Moreover, India has run operations from its mission in Mazar and is likely doing so from the other consulates it has reopened in Jalalabad and Kandahar along the (Pak-Afghan) border*.'
> 
> Fair also went on to claim, *'Indian officials have told me privately that they are pumping money into Balochistan*. Kabul has encouraged India to engage in provocative activities such as using the Border Roads Organisation to build sensitive parts of the Rind Road and use the Indo-Tibetan police force for security.'
> 
> US: Expert who infuriated India offered key post - Rediff.com India News



How is that proof? US officials have been saying lots of stuff about Pakistan and ISI, thats called an accusation. Proof would be 29-11 handler calls traced to Pakistan.

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## Mitro

fateh71 said:


> How is that proof? US officials have been saying lots of stuff about Pakistan and ISI, thats called an accusation. Proof would be 29-11 handler calls traced to Pakistan.



If you google the name of the person accusing us you will have a idea and she also accusing pakistan involment in AF we all know that we are involve and i dont understand why we are affraid of , bharat sharma clearly said in pakistan TV interview that this will only stop when pakistan makes peace with india

Why we are not hanging the terrorist involve in parliament and mumbai attack 
And what stopping us in making surjical strike in terrorist bases that are involve 
Even if it lets full war .


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## humanfirst

Czar786 said:


> This the proof that india is involved in balochistan
> 
> US: Expert who infuriated India offered key post
> 
> In an online discussion earlier this year -- convened by the much-respected journal Foreign Affairs -- Fair had said that Pakistan had legitimate concerns about India's involvement in Afghanistan and that perhaps Islamabad's [ Images ] paranoia that New Delhi was fanning unrest in Balochistan was not unfounded.
> 
> 'I think it is unfair to dismiss the notion that Pakistan's apprehensions about Afghanistan stem in part from its security competition with India,' she had then said, and noted, *"Having visited the Indian mission in Zahedan, Iran, I can assure you they are not issuing visas as the main activity. Moreover, India has run operations from its mission in Mazar and is likely doing so from the other consulates it has reopened in Jalalabad and Kandahar along the (Pak-Afghan) border*.'
> 
> Fair also went on to claim, *'Indian officials have told me privately that they are pumping money into Balochistan*. Kabul has encouraged India to engage in provocative activities such as using the Border Roads Organisation to build sensitive parts of the Rind Road and use the Indo-Tibetan police force for security.'
> 
> US: Expert who infuriated India offered key post - Rediff.com India News



There goes your proof...


> Pakistanis Have Blown My Comments Out Of Proportion' -Christine Fair
> 
> 'Pakistanis Have Blown My Comments Out Of Proportion' | Ashish Kumar Sen

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## foxbat

humanfirst said:


> There goes your proof...



An interesting quote from the interview of the lady on whose comments Pakistanis were going to town talking about Indian's involvement in Balochistan
*
"While India's economy is booming and its relationship with the US, Israel and every other country is growing, Pakistan is becoming ever more diplomatically isolated. I think that as the power inequality between India and Pakistan expands, Pakistan is going to be more reliant on militancy not less. I think this idea that, as India becomes stronger and Pakistan becomes weaker, that Pakistan is simply going to capitulate and acquiesce is probably not going to happen. In fact, I see quite the opposite. I see Pakistan becoming ever more unable to shake free of this tool that it has developed - and from its point of view successfully - for the past six decades. Now, obviously this is not something that has been beneficial. It is eroding the state, it is driving the state ever more into a pariah status and it is destabilising the subcontinent."*


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## humanfirst

nabil_05 said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> FC invaded one of their own depot and showed it to media, but then, they never had AAAs. No point in presenting anything more.



None of those weapons are indian origin..A Russian PKM machine of that group was passed of as Indian Vickers Machine Gun and spread in various social media as proof of indian hand in supporting TTP..Its debunked here:
Indian weapons in Swat OR ISI strategy to demonize civilian government?

.Another 82mm mortar from the same collection was also faked as indian by photoshopping on the chinese markings to make it look like hindi,that was debunked in this very forum when one indian member posted the original pictures with clear chinese markings on it..


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## ajtr

Sau baat ki ek baat i'll trust pak govt,PA,ISI over their claim that GOI is doing subversive activities in pakistan based on past records of helping and training mukti bahini to do subversive activities in east pakistan and then sending terrorists to do bomb blasts in pakistan or even training LTTE.India is no way innocent.A leopard doesn't change it's spots.

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## Abhishek_

ajtr said:


> Sau baat ki ek baat i'll trust pak govt,PA,ISI over their claim that GOI is doing subversive activities in pakistan based on past records of helping and training mukti bahini to do subversive activities in east pakistan and then sending terrorists to do bomb blasts in pakistan or even training LTTE.India is no way innocent.A leopard doesn't change it's spots.


perhaps PK would be so kind as to send a dossier. lets reveal the evil indian designs against humble pakistan


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## Paan Singh

ajtr said:


> Sau baat ki ek baat i'll trust pak govt,PA,ISI over their claim that GOI is doing subversive activities in pakistan based on past records of helping and training mukti bahini to do subversive activities in east pakistan and then sending terrorists to do bomb blasts in pakistan or even training LTTE.India is no way innocent.A leopard doesn't change it's spots.



Pakistan is getting what they did in past with us.This is also

SAU BAAT KI EK BAAT..

if you cant take then dont give...


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## ajtr

Abhishek_ said:


> perhaps PK would be so kind as to send a dossier. lets reveal the evil indian designs against humble pakistan


no Pak wont send dossiers. it will only send moral and diplomatic support.

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## Ticker

foxbat said:


> An interesting quote from the interview of the lady on whose comments Pakistanis were going to town talking about Indian's involvement in Balochistan
> *
> "While India's economy is booming and its relationship with the US, Israel and every other country is growing, Pakistan is becoming ever more diplomatically isolated. I think that as the power inequality between India and Pakistan expands, Pakistan is going to be more reliant on militancy not less. I think this idea that, as India becomes stronger and Pakistan becomes weaker, that Pakistan is simply going to capitulate and acquiesce is probably not going to happen. In fact, I see quite the opposite. I see Pakistan becoming ever more unable to shake free of this tool that it has developed - and from its point of view successfully - for the past six decades. Now, obviously this is not something that has been beneficial. It is eroding the state, it is driving the state ever more into a pariah status and it is destabilising the subcontinent."*



I think such American propaganda charade has lost its luster now. And I think that there is a growing realization in the US Administration that they need to change their strategy for the better. India has failed to replace Pakistani influence in Afghanistan and instead resorts more to spread terror inside Pakistan through Afghanistan. 

In my opinion, there would be a discernible change in the tone and tenor of US Administration in the near future.


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## Abhishek_

ajtr said:


> no Pak wont send dossiers. it will only send moral and diplomatic support.


no issues there. feel free


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## ajtr

TeriShirtDaButton said:


> Pakistan is getting what they did in past with us.This is also
> 
> SAU BAAT KI EK BAAT..
> 
> if you cant take then dont give...


bottom line is what india is getting from pak ie the moral and diplomatic support is the reaction to the india's subversive activities in pakistan.


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## Paan Singh

ajtr said:


> bottom line is what india is getting from pak ie the moral and diplomatic support is the reaction to the india's subversive activities in pakistan.



Today no body give a hike to the moral or diplomatic support of the pakistan.


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## ajtr

Ticker said:


> I think such American propaganda charade has lost its luster now. And I think that there is a growing realization in the US Administration that they need to change their strategy for the better. India has failed to replace Pakistani influence in Afghanistan and instead resorts more to spread terror inside Pakistan through Afghanistan.
> 
> In my opinion, there would be a discernible change in the tone and tenor of US Administration in the near future.


Arey baba you are taking Christine fair seriously ?????...............she is lota like pakistani politicians.even GoI is so angree with her that they lobbied hard against her to be appointed to south asia desk in SD.



Abhishek_ said:


> no issues there. feel free


As free as tilak's slogan ......



TeriShirtDaButton said:


> Today no body give a hike to the moral or diplomatic support of the pakistan.


oh sure india does thats why its talking cbms on kashmir...

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## Mitro

humanfirst said:


> There goes your proof...



What did Indian officials mean when they told you they were pumping in money into Balochistan?

It was intended to cultivate assets. That's all I ever implied. I have no evidence for explicit support for terrorism. There is nothing in my Foreign Affairs comments that actually says that.

But when you have analysts say India is doing nothing, I don't think that is helpful because I don't believe that is true. India has a competent intelligence agency; India is doing what every other country that is involved in Afghanistan is doing - that is, developing information, developing contacts, trying to assert itself politically. So when people say "Oh, India is not doing anything," that is really not true. 

'Pakistanis Have Blown My Comments Out Of Proportion' | Ashish Kumar Sen


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## Abhishek_

ajtr said:


> oh sure india does thats why its talking cbms on kashmir...


we certainly don't mind if Pakistan accepts to freeze kashmir issue for a decade.


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## ajtr

Czar786 said:


> What did Indian officials mean when they told you they were pumping in money into Balochistan?
> 
> It was intended to cultivate assets. That's all I ever implied. I have no evidence for explicit support for terrorism. There is nothing in my Foreign Affairs comments that actually says that.
> 
> But when you have analysts say India is doing nothing, I don't think that is helpful because I don't believe that is true. India has a competent intelligence agency; India is doing what every other country that is involved in Afghanistan is doing - that is, developing information, developing contacts, trying to assert itself politically. So when people say "Oh, India is not doing anything," that is really not true.
> 
> 'Pakistanis Have Blown My Comments Out Of Proportion' | Ashish Kumar Sen


stop posting christine fair's views she is lota not even pakistan nor SD takes her seriously.i wonder why rand corp. calls her SA exper.she is like cohen .pal main tola pal main masha.



Abhishek_ said:


> we certainly don't mind if Pakistan accepts to freeze kashmir issue for a decade.


Abhi-sheikh sahib thats your misconception if you think that pak will freeze kashmir issue.


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## Abhishek_

ajtr said:


> Abhi-sheikh sahib thats your misconception if you think that pak will freeze kashmir issue.


the status quo works for us just as well, PK is free to do whatever it wants.


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## Paan Singh

ajtr said:


> oh sure india does thats why its talking cbms on kashmir...



u too know the reality  ..how much time pass is going on and how much india is giving 

ek hota hai blind support and ek hota hai logical support..

i think u r getting my drift


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## ajtr

Abhishek_ said:


> the status quo works for us just as well, PK is free to do whatever it wants.


nope status quo doesnt work for you that well as you try to portray. to change status quo only you are negotiating with pak over it hence all these cbms and talks etc.


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## Mitro

Raw responsible in 1971 disintegration of pakistan 
ISI in kashmir
ISI in PunJab
ISI in NAXAL
ISI in East India Nagas,Nodo militancy
ISI in Mumbai Bomb blast
ISI in 26/11
Raw in Balochistan
Raw in Waziristan
Raw in Support for MQM

There is a distinction between "security intelligence" and "foreign intelligence". Security intelligence pertains to domestic threats (e.g. terrorism, espionage). Foreign intelligence involves information collection relating to the political, or economic activities of foreign states.
Some agencies have been involved in assassination, arms trafficking, coups d'état, and the placement of misinformation (propaganda) as well as other covert operations, in order to support their own or their governments' interests.

Thats normal duty for RAW and ISI Don't fight Let them do their Duty


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## Abhishek_

ajtr said:


> nope status quo doesnt work for you that well as you try to portray. to change status quo only you are negotiating with pak over it hence all these cbms and talks etc.


you are entitled to your opinion as am I. I for one, and (from the looks of it) many indians aren't particularly bothered by what pakistan does.


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## ajtr

TeriShirtDaButton said:


> u too know the reality  ..how much time pass is going on and how much india is giving
> 
> ek hota hai blind support and ek hota hai logical support..
> 
> i think u r getting my drift


i think its you who are drifting in wilderness.india got fed up of proxy war and it has no answer to counter it.hence all these talk shalk from india.


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## Abhishek_

ajtr said:


> i think its you who are drifting in wilderness.india got fed up of proxy war and it has no answer to counter it.hence all these talk shalk from india.


no issues with talk shalks; as long as GOI doesn't give away territory, i as a citizen have no issues.


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## ajtr

Abhishek_ said:


> you are entitled to your opinion as am I. I for one, and (from the looks of it) many indians aren't particularly bothered by what pakistan does.


 oh sure you are bothered by what pak does by providing moral and diplomatic support in kashmir or else where in india lets say mumbai. hence all those dossiers are lobbed in desperation.



Abhishek_ said:


> no issues with talk shalks; as long as GOI doesn't give away territory, i as a citizen have no issues.


its no more a territory issue its way beyond territory of kashmir.its now about india itself.


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## Paan Singh

ajtr said:


> i think its you who are drifting in wilderness.india got fed up of proxy war and it has no answer to counter it.hence all these talk shalk from india.



 

You dint answer my Qn..

how much paksitan have gained from talks shaks? 

Even india is not ready to vacate siachin,you are talking about kashmir?


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## Abhishek_

ajtr said:


> oh sure you are bothered by what pak does by providing moral and diplomatic support in kashmir or else where in india lets say mumbai. hence all those dossiers are lobbed in desperation.


by your own admission we have lobbed a whole lot more than just dossiers. i have no complaints against GOI in the way it has handled pakistan.



ajtr said:


> its no more a territory issue its way beyond territory of kashmir.its now about india itself.


yawn . . ..


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## Paan Singh

ajtr said:


> oh sure you are bothered by what pak does by providing moral and diplomatic support in kashmir or else where in india lets say mumbai. hence all those dossiers are lobbed in desperation.
> 
> its no more a territory issue its way beyond territory of kashmir.its now about india itself.



You and ur bro's can take it at any where  but pakistan has lost it


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## foxbat

ajtr said:


> its no more a territory issue its way beyond territory of kashmir.its now about india itself.



_hum ko maloom hai jannat ki haqeeqat lekin
dil ke khush rakhne ko ghalib yeh khayal acha hai
_


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## illusion8

ajtr said:


> Sau baat ki ek baat i'll trust pak govt,PA,ISI over their claim that GOI is doing subversive activities in pakistan based on past records of helping and training mukti bahini to do subversive activities in east pakistan and then sending terrorists to do bomb blasts in pakistan or even training LTTE.India is no way innocent.A leopard doesn't change it's spots.



Sau baat ki ek baat, where is the proof that Rehman Malik says he has and was to show?


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## foxbat

ajtr said:


> Sau baat ki ek baat i'll trust pak govt,PA,ISI over their claim that GOI is doing subversive activities in pakistan based on past records of helping and training mukti bahini to do subversive activities in east pakistan and then sending terrorists to do bomb blasts in pakistan or even training LTTE.India is no way innocent.A leopard doesn't change it's spots.



And who gives a hoot about what or who you trust ? Unless you have some evidence to back this cr@p up with, its just unsubstantiated BS...


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## INDIC

ajtr said:


> nope status quo doesnt work for you that well as you try to portray. to change status quo only you are negotiating with pak over it hence all these cbms and talks etc.



Talks are for more porous border not handing over anything.



Czar786 said:


> Raw responsible in 1971 disintegration of pakistan
> ISI in kashmir
> ISI in PunJab
> ISI in NAXAL
> ISI in East India Nagas,Nodo militancy
> ISI in Mumbai Bomb blast
> ISI in 26/11
> Raw in Balochistan
> Raw in Waziristan
> Raw in Support for MQM
> 
> There is a distinction between "security intelligence" and "foreign intelligence". Security intelligence pertains to domestic threats (e.g. terrorism, espionage). Foreign intelligence involves information collection relating to the political, or economic activities of foreign states.
> Some agencies have been involved in assassination, arms trafficking, coups d'état, and the placement of misinformation (propaganda) as well as other covert operations, in order to support their own or their governments' interests.
> 
> Thats normal duty for RAW and ISI Don't fight Let them do their Duty



Pakistan started hosting separatist from North East decades before 1971 war or 1965 war.


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## Ticker

India's subversive role in Afghanistan, is unfortunately for them is coming to a gradual end. The Indian posters here are still living in the past and do not appreciate the fact that the end is visible and India's 15 minutes of fame in Afghanistan is almost over. The realization by the Americans that their stay in Afghanistan beyond 2014 and the needed stability there can not be sustained if India continues its negative ventures of supporting terrorism in Pakistan. 

So the famous Indian one liners by posters here may be ignored as India's detailed planning for decades of anti-Pakistan activities are coming to an end.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

illusion8 said:


> If India was seriously fueling Baloch movement we would have had a different map of Pakistan by now, it would have taken roughly a couple of years and it's been 8 years or so since India's in Afghanistan.
> 
> So, NO I don't think we are even trying.



india has been trying; its only that its efforts have been useless b/c majority Baloch are with Pakistan. It's more of an irritant than a threat, but the fact is - nobody doubts your countries nefarious activities (which havent and wont go unpunished)




TeriShirtDaButton said:


> Today no body give a hike to the moral or diplomatic support of the pakistan.



the feelings are quite mutual let me assure you

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## Paan Singh

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> india has been trying; its only that its efforts have been useless b/c majority Baloch are with Pakistan. It's more of an irritant than a threat, but the fact is - nobody doubts your countries nefarious activities (which havent and wont go unpunished)




 india dont want disintegration of pakistan but want to little bit weak..
otherwise it will invite more trouble for india..



> the feelings are quite mutual let me assure you



 but results negates your ability or so called support


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## notsuperstitious

So like every other india in Afghanistan thread, after a long discussion we established there is no proof but blind belief. Blind belief is also called religion. Discussing religion is discouraged on this forum.

In short, sajjad shaukat is a wannabe defence analist (sic) blog writer who should change his blog name to ''Chicken Soup for the Heart and Euthanasia for the Brain''.

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## INDIC

Ticker said:


> India's subversive role in Afghanistan, is unfortunately for them is coming to a gradual end. The Indian posters here are still living in the past and do not appreciate the fact that the end is visible and India's 15 minutes of fame in Afghanistan is almost over. The realization by the Americans that their stay in Afghanistan beyond 2014 and the needed stability there can not be sustained if India continues its negative ventures of supporting terrorism in Pakistan.
> 
> So the famous Indian one liners by posters here may be ignored as India's detailed planning for decades of anti-Pakistan activities are coming to an end.



You can't say anthing right now. But Americans are staying till 2024. The regional players will ensure that Taliban won't return back. This was visible when Russia aided NATO when Pakistan closed supply route.


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## illusion8

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> india has been trying; its only that its efforts have been useless b/c majority Baloch are with Pakistan. It's more of an irritant than a threat, but the fact is - nobody doubts your countries nefarious activities (which havent and wont go unpunished)



Again, where is the proof? there is a saying in Hindi " Chor ko sabhi chor nazar aathe hain". terrorist sympathizers, trainers and camp runners, and proxy war proponents see conspiracies and involvements everywhere.


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## foxbat

Ticker said:


> India's subversive role in Afghanistan, is unfortunately for them is coming to a gradual end. The Indian posters here are still living in the past and do not appreciate the fact that the end is visible and India's 15 minutes of fame in Afghanistan is almost over. The realization by the Americans that their stay in Afghanistan beyond 2014 and the needed stability there can not be sustained if India continues its negative ventures of supporting terrorism in Pakistan.
> 
> So the famous Indian one liners by posters here may be ignored as India's detailed planning for decades of anti-Pakistan activities are coming to an end.




_hum ko maloom hai jannat ki haqeeqat lekin
dil ke khush rakhne ko ghalib yeh khayal acha hai
_

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## Ticker

Gigawatt said:


> You can't say anthing right now. But Americans are staying till 2024. The regional players will ensure that Taliban won't return back. This was visible when *Russia aided NATO* when Pakistan closed supply route.



Please read details of how they aided NATO. It may surprise you.


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## INDIC

Ticker said:


> Please read details of how they aided NATO. It may surprise you.



Tell me please.


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## Ticker

Gigawatt said:


> Tell me please.



That is a surprise for you. Why should I tell you.


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## humanfirst

Ticker said:


> Please read details of how they aided NATO. It may surprise you.



Russia is also concerned of afghanistan turning to a terrorist hub after NATO pull out..
Russia warns of new wave of terror, seeks India's cooperation - Hindustan Times


> "Thousands of terrorists and fundamentalists will seek refuge in Afghanistan as well as the region around the country. It may change the situation drastically around the region and for countries like Tajikistan, Kazakhstan and Central Asia. This is a big problem for Russia and India," he said.
> 
> "So we have to control the situation with some political and security monitoring and see what we can do together to stop this invasion of new terrorist wave against us and our citizens," he said.



Not just Russia,It is in the interest of Chinese and Central asian countries to prevent Taliban from taking over..Taliban shelters and trains Chechen and Uighur militants,and apart from threat of militancy chinese have billions of dollars worth of projects to lose if present afghan govt falls..


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## INDIC

humanfirst said:


> Russia is also concerned of afghanistan turning to a terrorist hub after NATO pull out..
> Russia warns of new wave of terror, seeks India's cooperation - Hindustan Times
> 
> 
> Not just Russia,It is in the interest of Chinese and Central asian countries to prevent Taliban from taking over..Taliban shelters and trains Chechen and Uighur militants,and apart from threat of militancy chinese have billions of dollars worth of projects to lose if present afghan govt falls..



China links Uighur militant group ETIM with Al Qaida. Lots of Uighur militants were arrested in Afghanistan and detained at Guantanamo Bay. Chinese are equally worried about Taliban.


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## Ticker

humanfirst said:


> Russia is also concerned of afghanistan turning to a terrorist hub after NATO pull out..
> Russia warns of new wave of terror, seeks India's cooperation - Hindustan Times
> 
> 
> Not just Russia,It is in the interest of Chinese and Central asian countries to prevent Taliban from taking over..Taliban shelters and trains Chechen and Uighur militants,and apart from threat of militancy chinese have billions of dollars worth of projects to lose if present afghan govt falls..



In due course, it is most likely that the Americans would take a Libya and Syria course in to Central Asia.


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## INDIC

Ticker said:


> That is a surprise for you. Why should I tell you.



I know they used the opportunity for themselves but still helped NATO troops totally ignoring the concerns of Pakistan. Is there any other mystery apart from this one.


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## Ticker

Gigawatt said:


> I know they used the opportunity for themselves but still helped NATO troops totally ignoring the concerns of Pakistan. Is there any other mystery apart from this one.



Pakistan didn't have any concerns for NATO using northern routes and neither does it have any concerns now. The Americans are most welcome to use them.


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## illusion8

*Russia demanded NATO to fulfill its obligations in Afghanistan even after NATO forces' withdrawal from there, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said Thursday.*

Meanwhile, he assured Moscow would continue to cooperate with NATO over Afghanistan because Russia has its serious interests in Central Asia.
"Since you've entered there, it's your full responsibility for everything happening there and for what will be happening after your exit," Rogozin said, adding any instability in Afghanistan beckons terrorists from around the world.
"In effect, Afghanistan security has been connected with security of our borders," he concluded.
The NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan has planned to leave the country in 2014.
Russia offered a base in the city of Ulyanovsk for transit of ISAF consignment being withdrawn from Afghanistan.

Russia expects NATO to hold responsibility for Afghanistan future


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## humanfirst

Ticker said:


> In due course, it is most likely that the Americans would take a Libya and Syria course in to Central Asia.


Let americans decide wht they do or what they dont.In the case of afghanistan-American,russian,Chinese and Indian interests are similar..They all hate taliban to return to power..

For Russia-Threat of taliban sheltering and training chechens,fear of talibani ideology spreading to central asia(Uzbekistan already have their own taliban affiliates)

For China-History of taliban sheltering and supporting ughuirs militants,plus their billions of dollars worth of projects with karzai govt(From huge mining contracts to power plants and highways).

For India-We have a lot of projects there just like Chinese,which we dont want to lose,and a friendly govt..

For whole of civilised world-Afghans now have a chance to improve,no matter how inefficient their systems are now-their education,industry and infrastructure is improving-just see the projects starting in each months..If taliban takes over,it'll be back to stone age for them-No Industry,No infrastructure,No education..No films/Internet/music..

Even you guys should be worried about taliban-Just look what happened after US pulled out of kunar...Afghan taliban took over the place and started sheltering TTP leadership there..


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## Abu Zolfiqar

TeriShirtDaButton said:


> india dont want disintegration of pakistan but want to little bit weak..
> otherwise it will invite more trouble for india..
> 
> dont worry about Pakistan disintegrating india when your caste system, naxals, internal ethnic discrimination and internal secessionist movements and other problems are already working to tear your social fabric
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but results negates your ability or so called support
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i dont know what that's supposed to mean or what you're trying to say here
Click to expand...


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## somebozo

If we know all of this then why arent we taking actions - a question which demands common sense? is it to hard to take joint action against Talibans when we know clearly that they have become infiltrated with "RAW Agents".

doing a tasbeeh of India, RAW, Ameeka, Israel Yahoodi like Ziad Hamid is not going to help. 
Taking control of situation and drastic steps to cut down the nuisance factors will.

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## AsianLion

*US handed dossiers of India’s role in subversive acts*

*| Sharif says Delhi’s response to Pak efforts for peace discouraging | Kerry terms Islamabad critical to Afghan reconciliation | India's subversive acts in Afghanistan against Pakistan*

WASHINGTON: Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif underlined his commitment to contribute towards promoting a peaceful South Asia, and reiterated his commitment to seek normalisation of ties with India at a 40-minute meeting with US Secretary of State John Kerry on Wednesday. At the same time, an official statement said the prime minister briefed Secretary Kerry at the Blair House meeting about the destabilising role of Indian agencies in FATA, Balochistan and Karachi. In this regard, three separate dossiers containing evidence of the Indian involvement in subversive activities were handed over to the US side by Adviser to the Prime Minister on National Security and Foreign Affairs Sartaj Aziz, who assisted the prime minister at the meeting.

Last month, copies of those dossiers were submitted at the office of UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon. The statement said Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and Secretary Kerry took stock of recent developments in the relationship and stressed the need for continued high-level engagements on all issues of mutual interest. The Prime Minister briefed Secretary Kerry on the important achievements of his government over the last two years, especially in the economy and internal security domain. Secretary Kerry assured the prime minister of the continued US cooperation to further enhance economic engagement between the two countries including in meeting Pakistan’s energy needs.

The two sides also discussed the situation of peace and security in the broader region. It was agreed that terrorism posed a common challenge to the regional and global security and reaffirmed their resolve to counter this challenge. The prime minister informed the secretary of state that the ongoing military operation Zarb-e-Azab as well as the National Action Plan were achieving the desired results in improving internal security and eliminating the menace of terrorism from Pakistan. It was pointed out that the incidents of terrorism in Pakistan had significantly reduced in recent weeks.

Secretary Kerry commended the significant gains achieved by Operation Zarb-e-Azb which had decimated the terrorist organisations in the border region, according to the statement. Appreciating the commitment of prime minister to promoting peace and security in the region, Secretary Kerry reaffirmed US support to work with Pakistan in this shared objective. He emphasised that Pakistan’s role in taking the reconciliation forward was critical to stabilising Afghanistan. It was further agreed that enhanced coordination amongst regional countries would be imperative, to address these emerging threats to international peace and security.

“Informing the US delegation about his peace initiative contained in his statement at the recent session of the UN General Assembly, the prime minister underlined his commitment to contribute towards promoting a peaceful South Asia,” the statement said. The prime minister apprised Secretary Kerry of Pakistan’s efforts to improve relations with Afghanistan and reiterated his commitment to seek normalisation with India. The prime minister was assisted by Finance Minister Ishaq Dar, Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan, Water and Power Minister Khawaja Muhammad Asif, Adviser on National Security and Foreign Affairs Sartaj Aziz, Special Assistant Tariq Fatemi, Foreign Secretary Aizaz Ahmed Chaudhry and Ambassador Jalil Abbas Jilani.

Addressing Pakistani community hours earlier, Sharif underlined the importance of the Kashmir dispute for regional peace while regretting India’s response in maintaining harmony in South Asia. “The entire world knows that Kashmir is the root cause of tensions in the region,” the prime minister said. “If there is sincere desire for peace in the region, Kashmir will have to be resolved,” the prime minister said. He also said that terrorist networks in Pakistan had been destroyed, and that the country was changing for the better - “in real terms”, “not in slogans”.

He said when the present PML-N government took over the reign of country after the 2013 general elections it was facing the challenges of terrorism, energy crisis, economic meltdown and the poor law and order situation in Balochistan and Karachi. “Today, Karachi is not the same as it was two and half years ago. Today’s FATA and Balochistan are also not the same,” he said. Pakistan made great sacrifices in the war against terrorism, and the government is committed to root out terrorism from the country, Sharif said. He said that the military operation Zarb-e-Azb launched last year gave tremendous results, breaking the backbone of terrorists and dismantling their sanctuaries. The day is not far off when terrorism would be uprooted completely,” he added.

In this regard, he paid tributes to the tremendous sacrifices rendered by the army and law enforcement personnel. Pakistan, he said, stood for peace in Afghanistan and would continue its role in the reconciliation process. Sharif said that through his government efforts, Pakistan’s economy was on the upswing, a development acknowledged by the international financial agencies. He referred to the allocation of Rs 10 billion under the youth loan scheme and said more resources would be provided for the betterment of our youth. Talking about the government’s efforts and measures towards tackling the energy crisis, he referred to the launching of 3600 MW three LNG-based power producing units and said these would be completed by the end of 2017.

The Prime Minister also informed the Pakistani community about the government’s efforts to check the cost of these LNG-based projects and said these projects which were originally planned to be completed at Rs. 320 billion, would now be completed at a cost of Rs. 165 billion. He said even NEPRA had endorsed Rs. 90 billion cost for one LNG-based project, adding, but the government got it done at Rs. 55 billion per unit as it accepted the lowest bidder and saved the national money of billions of rupees.

The Prime Minister also mentioned the ongoing other electricity generation projects including the coal-based 1300 MW project at Port Qasim, 1320 MW coal-based project in Sahiwal, 960 MW Neelum-Jhelum hydro-power project, 400 MW wind energy project, 300 MW solar power project etc. and said these projects would be completed between 2016 to 2018 during the tenure of present PML-N government. Highlighting the government’s achievements on economic front, he said with the country’s GDP growth recorded at over 4% last year, the target for current fiscal was 5%, adding, “We have come at this level after 23 years.” The Prime Minister also mentioned the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) as his government’s success, as the project was bringing $ 46 billion investment.

The PM also mentioned other road and infrastructure projects including the construction of road networks in Balochistan as well as in KP like Hazara Motorway, which would go up to Khunjrab Pass at China border. He said the road disconnected at Karakoram highway due to the creation of Atta Abad lake after the landslides has been restored by constructing tunnels at a cost of Rs. 27 billion. Similarly, he said Pakistan and China were working on the upgradation of Gwadar Port, which would be turned into a free port, adding, a new airport will also be constructed in Balochistan. He said with the cooperation of Russia and China, a gas pipeline was also being laid in Pakistan, adding, it would help strengthen relations with Russia.

US handed dossiers of India’s role in subversive acts

Source: US given large dossiers of India’s role in subversive terrorist acts

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## Dragon4

AsianUnion said:


> Source: US given _large_ dossiers of India’s role in subversive terrorist acts


why did you doctor that _large_ in your source ?


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## AsianLion

*Why India Transferred Attack Helicopters to Afghanistan*
India’s attack helicopter transfer to Afghanistan suggests a new era in ties between New Delhi and Kabul. (While India can't afford itself)

Earlier this month, the Afghan Ministry of Defense inducted three Mi-25 attack helicopters into the Afghan Air Force (AAF). The helicopters were supplied by India and mark the first time that New Delhi has transferred lethal military equipment to Afghanistan. The AAF inducted three of four scheduled Mi-25 helicopters. The Mi-25s will replace Afghanistan’s aging Mi-35 attack helicopters and provide a much-needed boost to Afghanistan’s air support capabilities in the ongoing struggle against the Taliban across the country.

On January 20, Afghanistan confirmed that three multirole Mi-25 had been assembled and were ready for operational use. The Mi-25s will likely see their first use in the ongoing struggle against Taliban fighters in Helmand province. “We have always been helped by India. The helicopters donated by India to Afghanistan have been assembled and will help us fight terrorists,” Ghulam Sakhi Ahmadzai, deputy chief of procurement at the Afghan defense ministry, told _Tolo_ _News_.

The Mi-25 agreement between the two countries was announced in November 2015, when Afghan National Security Adviser Hanif Atmar and Afghan Deputy Foreign Minister Hekmat Khalil Karzai visited New Delhi. India had previously supplied three Hindustan Aeronautic Limited (HAL) Cheetal trainer helicopters to the AAF.

The Afghan Air Force already has experience with Russian-made Mi-24 attack helicopters and operates five older Mi-35s, that were supplied by the Czech Republic in 2008. The AAF’s existing Mi-35s, however, are not commonly used. As Franz-Stefan Gady explained in _The Diplomat_ in November, the “Mi-25 is a close-air support aircraft armed with a YakB four-barrelled, 12.7mm, built-in, flexibly mounted machine gun, as well as rocket and grenade launchers. It can be deployed against ground troops including armored and slow moving air targets. It can also serve as a low-capacity troop transport (up to eight paratroopers), and be used for medical evacuation missions.” The helicopter is thus well-suited for the AAF’s role in helping the Afghan National Army take Taliban positions with close-air support.

Unfortunately, given the many challenges facing Afghan security forces in Afghanistan, the Indian transfer of Mi-25s is not a game changing development on the battlefield. Instead, the broader significance of the transfer is in what it tells us about New Delhi’s approach to security in Afghanistan. Despite close ties between India and Afghanistan, New Delhi took until early 2016 to deliver lethal weaponry to Kabul due to concerns that doing so could aggravate Pakistan, which sees increased Indian support for the Afghan government as a potential threat.

The Indian government, however, is moving away from that old paradigm in managing its relationship with Afghanistan. Indeed, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi showed his interest in decoupling India’s approach to Afghanistan from its approach to Pakistan when he made a surprise stopover in Lahore just hours after having declared his support for Afghanistan before the Afghan parliament.

http://thediplomat.com/tag/pakistan/


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