# India explores rail link with Iran, Turkey



## RISING SUN

India explores rail link with Iran, Turkey
India is weighing the possibility of establishing a rail freight service which would connect the country to Iran and Turkey, New Delhi-based media say. The project is expected to bring about a major boost to trade and economic development of the Asia Pacific region, also involving Bangladesh, Bhutan, Nepal, Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The ambitious plan, covering about 6,000 kilometers, could significantly reduce currently high tariff and non-tariff costs in trade between these countries. For the start, Indian Railways will organize a meeting of South Asian railway heads involved in the project on March 15-16, India’s leading business website the Hindu Business Line reported.

The UN Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific (ESCAP) has been promoting the project for years through holding various conferences and carrying out feasibility studies on rail network between the countries. ESCAP has identified Dhaka-Kolkata-Delhi-Amritsar-Lahore-Islamabad-Zahedan-Tehran-Istanbul as the possible rail route, according to a senior Indian Railway Ministry official. The route has the strategic advantage of connecting the capitals of these countries.

According to the report, a demonstration container train between Bangladesh and India has been planned in the first quarter of 2017—18. The project is apparently part of the International North-South Transport Corridor (NSTC) formalized among India, Iran and Russia in 2000 to link the Subcontinent and the Middle East to the Caucasus, Central Asia and Europe. The ship, road and rail route would connect India’s Mumbai to the Iranian port of Bandar Abbas and further to Moscow and St. Petersburg in Russia before stretching to northern Europe and Scandinavia.

Besides Iran, India and Russia, countries that are on board to integrate into the transit network include Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Turkey, Tajikistan, Oman, Syria and Bulgaria. Dry runs of the route were conducted in 2014, from Mumbai to Baku and Astrakhan via Bandar Abbas. According to Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif, the countries were discussing the “final details” of the project.

The NSTC opens a window for alignment with Silk Road Economic Belt pushed by China to establish new trade and transport links with Central Asia and Europe and provide a counterbalance to US “pivot” to Asia.
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2017/03/04/512921/Iran-India-Turkey-rail-service-corridor-Silk-Road
I am not getting any related news thread in similar thread option, though I had seen something recently. If yes then to the mods, please merge the threads.

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## Trango Towers

Poor India.....No matter what....there is and always will be PAKISTAN .HAHAHAHA

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## Hassan Guy

how?

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## RISING SUN

snow lake said:


> Poor India.....No matter what....there is and always will be PAKISTAN .HAHAHAHA


Yes that is true, however if there is will, there will be way for co-operation.

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## YeBeWarned

RISING SUN said:


> Yes that is true, however if there is will, there will be way for co-operation.



Unless India stop Supporting TTP in Afghanistan and BLA/BRA in Baluchistan, Peace will never have a chance .. but the Idea is very awesome to Connect India , Pakistan , Iran and Turkey Via Rail line ..it can extend to China , Russia , Bangladesh as well ..

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## Ryuzaki

Will not happen,govt. should not waste time

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## ABCharlie

Is it a flying rail?

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## T-123456

Why not,could be beneficial for all of the countries of this rail line.

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## RISING SUN

Starlord said:


> Unless India stop Supporting TTP in Afghanistan and BLA/BRA in Baluchistan, Peace will never have a chance .. but the Idea is very awesome to Connect India , Pakistan , Iran and Turkey Via Rail line ..it can extend to China , Russia , Bangladesh as well ..


Buddy you can can claim anything you want on terrorism, untill n unless facts are presented in open or in diplomatic circle, nobody will favor such charges. However on topic India would have been actually supporting Pakistan claim over Balochistan geopolitically if it would had got involved economically in that region. Logically India would had wanted stability in region if it had the participation in economic benefits from there. Might be possible Pakistani authorities/strategists missed that? Senior members take on above point.


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## Trango Towers

RISING SUN said:


> Yes that is true, however if there is will, there will be way for co-operation.


Indeed let's give Kashmir to Kashmiri people and we can.live in peace as neighbours. Open our borders. Trade and generally argue over cricket and mangos. Now wouldn't that be a subcontinent reinvent worth living in

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## NakedLunch

They could tunnel under Pakistan. LOL!

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## Trango Towers

NakedLunch said:


> They could tunnel under Pakistan. LOL!



Oh yes. I am sure ancient Hindu priests have plans for this along with nuclear power, missile, lazers and death rays

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## BATMAN

Indian economy cannot afford transit through Pakistan.
In order to make Indian dream materialize, they need serious amounts of subsidy from Pakistan.
Perhaps US / IMF can negotiate some support via politicians of Pakistan.



NakedLunch said:


> They could tunnel under Pakistan. LOL!


Sorry I didn't read your remarks before... this might be good proposal for both Indians and Iranians.

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## NakedLunch

snow lake said:


> Oh yes. I am sure ancient Hindu priests have plans for this along with nuclear power, missile, lazers and death rays



What about Vedic flying trains? They say they have blueprints for extreme advanced technology thousands of years old. Its in a big book somewhere in India.

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## hussain0216

T-123456 said:


> Why not,could be benefitial for all of the countries of this rail line.



What person, thing, group do you hate most in the world?

× that hate by 1000

= how we feel about the indians

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## T-123456

hussain0216 said:


> What person, thing, group do you hate most in the world?
> 
> × that hate by 1000
> 
> = how we feel about the indians


I know but you do business with India and this is business.
It will benefit your economy so,it will be a good thing for all involved.

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## hussain0216

T-123456 said:


> I know but you do business with India and this is business.
> It will benefit your economy so,it will be a good thing for all involved.



Our business with india is miniscule considering we both represent about 1.5 billion people

Its a nice idea but our issues with them are insurmountable

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## CHACHA"G"

This will be a great Idea , If we can install proper monitoring system and proper hazard analysis system with other modern tools .
I am all in favour of IRAN-PAKISTAN-INDIA gas pipe line as I am in favour of IRAN-PAK-CHINA gas and oil pipe lines , but if the price is right .
TAPI is coming too.
We can still be enemy and we can also do fair trade , My cry is we don't have people on Pakistani side who can guard Pakistan's interest , but we have people like NS and AZ who only want there benefits no matter what happen to Pakistan.
Because of these people we still don't have any fair trade agreement or any thing with India or even with IRAN. Personal interest always kill national interest and they also create negativity about most positive things.

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## Brickwall

I dont think it would work, If only Pakistan can see benefits.

If freight corridor is successful, it could be more boost for CPEC ....Just a thought


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## my2cents

hussain0216 said:


> Our business with india is miniscule considering we both represent about 1.5 billion people
> 
> Its a nice idea but our issues with them are insurmountable



Nothing is insurmountable if we will it. India and Pakistani problems are very small compared to what is happening with Syria and ISIS. I just hope this trial train is allowed for the sake of feasibility and for future trade.

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## The Headache

snow lake said:


> Oh yes. I am sure ancient *Hindu priests* have plans for this along with nuclear power, missile, lazers and death rays


But they were not as intelligent as the *Muslim Mullahs*. They had all the weapons in their stockpile.


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## Max

how it will bypass Pakistan..?  and it seems bharati railway officials are not aware about Modi's wet dream of isolating Pakistan with help of Hasina and bhutan 

well ideal situation for any such development is always step toward resolving Kashmir dispute,

in ideal situation i will support this only if bharati invest in our industrial zones, shift few industries here.. So our people can also benifit from it other then transit fee, 2nd no bharati should be allowed without visa.

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## RISING SUN

Ryuzaki said:


> Will not happen,govt. should not waste time


Government is investing value because there is good future for all involved. Don't forget it's part of bigger Asian Europe linking far east, south east, south, Central, Western and European markets.



snow lake said:


> Indeed let's give Kashmir to Kashmiri people and we can.live in peace as neighbours. Open our borders. Trade and generally argue over cricket and mangos. Now wouldn't that be a subcontinent reinvent worth living in


What about Laddakhi people, Jammu people, there is much more J&K than Kashmir. Maybe you can help in creating more economical options for indigenous people. Politics should be separated from religion then only there can be a solution in sight. On topic it might unlock the potential we all have. Presently there is hardly any land based trade here, just compare it with rest of Europe n America.


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## BABA AGHORI

Starlord said:


> Unless India stop Supporting TTP in Afghanistan and BLA/BRA in Baluchistan, Peace will never have a chance .. but the Idea is very awesome to Connect India , Pakistan , Iran and Turkey Via Rail line ..it can extend to China , Russia , Bangladesh as well ..


It could also be extended to Israel and Argentina .


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## BHarwana

India not going to pass through Pakistan. If Ganga signs the deal who is ready for a dharna in Islamabad.

The train link has already been established between Iran Azerbaijan and Now it will extent to Pakistan but from there it has to go north to China and Russia.

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## I S I

If only wishes were horses.



BABA AGHORI said:


> It could also be extended to Israel and Argentina .


& Mars too.

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## my2cents

As part of China's One belt one road initiative (OBOR) China is going ahead with connecting in the west with Iran and Europe and in the east with Myanmar and India.

A freight train with 32 containers pulled into Teheran a month ago traversing some 10000 miles along the ancient silk route from Yiwu in China's eastern province in a historic first in less than 14 days which would have taken more than a month through the sea route. It mainly traversed using existing lines, snaking its way through Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan before entering Iran to reach Tehran.

China wants to boost their trade with Iran to 300 billion dollars in a decades time from 53 billion dollars right now. This Yiwu-Tehran connectivity overcomes some of the shortcomings of CPEC that goes through restive Afghanistan and Pakistan.

There is a lesson here for India and Pakistan to come together for south Asian integration thro trade. The miniscule 3 billion trade between us is a joke.

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## shahbaz baig

believe or not. both china and India want their influence in this Region. BUT no one can achieve this without Pakistan. especially India cant achieve it without Pakistan, but China has already OBOR on Ground. and we are with china. Pakistan can also think about India after all it`s Regional Prosperity. But we don't think that Modi Sarkar have any concern about it. so bye bye India from regional influence.

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## Leader

RISING SUN said:


> Yes that is true, however if there is will, there will be way for co-operation.



positive thinking.. regional cooperation is the way forward.

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## volatile

Instead of confronting Pakistan collaborate


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## hussain0216

shahbaz baig said:


> believe or not. both china and India want their influence in this Region. BUT no one can achieve this without Pakistan. especially India cant achieve it without Pakistan, but China has already OBOR on Ground. and we are with china. Pakistan can also think about India after all it`s Regional Prosperity. But we don't think that Modi Sarkar have any concern about it. so bye bye India from regional influence.



Two things screwed india 

First was losing Kashmir and GB, it got blocked and the entire geo strategic future of Pakistan was changed 
India could have been the central pivot of regional connectivity 

Second was emnity with Pakistan 
Pakistan for all its faults is a major military and regional power and is in the growth path again
Pakistan is a leash upon india, shackles,a loaded gun pointed at its head
Any country or world power who has a issue with india has a natural ready made partner to hurt india

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## Aawish

Pipelines, roads, railways, electricity transmission lines, tourism etc can make all the mentioned countries dependable on one another, at least economically. And when countries get so dependent on one another then peace is automatically guaranteed in the region eg. Russia-Turkey relations restored despite grave circumstances. Turkey depends on Russian oil/gas while Turkey is the No.1 tourist destination for Russians. Economic dependencies forced them to restore good relations. I think it will be a good initiative until jingoist people ruin it.

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## shahbaz baig

hussain0216 said:


> Two things screwed india
> 
> First was losing Kashmir and GB, it got blocked and the entire geo strategic future of Pakistan was changed
> India could have been the central pivot of regional connectivity
> 
> Second was emnity with Pakistan
> Pakistan for all its faults is a major military and regional power and is in the growth path again
> Pakistan is a leash upon india, shackles,a loaded gun pointed at its head
> Any country or world power who has a issue with india has a natural ready made partner to hurt india


i know it bro. but no matter what if india want influence in region they need Pakistan. or else we have no problem after all, either india join us or not


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## s.k

Give them Rail Link to iran+turkey, Iran Pakistan India Pipline, Trade Access to Afghanistan and Central Asia but but but We want Kashmir, deal or no deal


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## Tariq Jamshaid

T-123456 said:


> I know but you do business with India and this is business.
> It will benefit your economy so,it will be a good thing for all involved.


India is an enemy country and should be treated as one if we are that business oriented nation than what's wrong with china Russia Iran Central Asia have we exhosted those chenels already ???
We aren't nation of banya,s that we ignore the scars India has and continues to give us as our worst enemy ever and start the business just to make money if we are doing some business with India we should stop it at once until India addresses the issues with Pakistan

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## sady

With BJP-RSS and Indian media stoking up Pakistan hate, Kashmir remaining highly militarised and Doval remaining security Czar India should forget in, never gonna happen.
Pakistan is on the verge of controlling all types of Jihadis Kashmir oriented or Afghanistan based on Pakistani land anyway, however it can't be said for support of Militants in red corridor or indigenous Kashmiri fighters. If India gets out of Drug induced stupor and euphoria and realise disintegration or isolation of Pakistan is a failing investment and like grownups co exist with mutual benefit. 

Looking at thought process of most Indians here on this forum and elsewhere, peace in our area is a distant dream. The years of being fed shi* has become an integral part of national psyche, in contrast with Pakistan where visceral hate for India was not seen untill few years when Indian involvement in pseudo religious terror was established. India has two options;

Current course and see indigenous movements getting a new life in India.
Stop terror support in Pakistan from Afghanistan , move towards a Kashmir solution acceptable to every party and then see a balance in how India fits into Euroasian block. Pakistan is ready to take on its part to take care of Jihaadi apparatus.

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## T-123456

Tariq Jamshaid said:


> India is an enemy country and should be treated as one if we are that business oriented nation wthan hat's wrong with china Russia Iran Central Asia have we exhosted those chenels already ???
> We aren't nation of banya,s that we ignore the scars India has and continues to give us as our worst enemy ever and go on making money if we are doing some business with India we should stop it at once.


Not ''some business'' but alot of business.
In 2013-14 your official trade with India was at $4.71 billion but the ''black market '' trade was at least double that.
I dont think it is possible to stop the trade with India.

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## Laozi

hussain0216 said:


> Two things screwed india
> 
> First was losing Kashmir and GB, it got blocked and the entire geo strategic future of Pakistan was changed
> India could have been the central pivot of regional connectivity
> 
> Second was emnity with Pakistan
> Pakistan for all its faults is a major military and regional power and is in the growth path again
> Pakistan is a leash upon india, shackles,a loaded gun pointed at its head
> Any country or world power who has a issue with india has a natural ready made partner to hurt india





sady said:


> With BJP-RSS and Indian media stoking up Pakistan hate, Kashmir remaining highly militarised and Doval remaining security Czar India should forget in, never gonna happen.
> Pakistan is on the verge of controlling all types of Jihadis Kashmir oriented or Afghanistan based on Pakistani land anyway, however it can't be said for support of Militants in red corridor or indigenous Kashmiri fighters. If India gets out of Drug induced stupor and euphoria and realise disintegration or isolation of Pakistan is a failing investment and like grownups co exist with mutual benefit.
> 
> Looking at thought process of most Indians here on this forum and elsewhere, peace in our area is a distant dream. The years of being fed shi* has become an integral part of national psyche, in contrast with Pakistan where visceral hate for India was not seen untill few years when Indian involvement in pseudo religious terror was established. India has two options;
> 
> Current course and see indigenous movements getting a new life in India.
> Stop terror support in Pakistan from Afghanistan , move towards a Kashmir solution acceptable to every party and then see a balance in how India fits into Euroasian block. Pakistan is ready to take on its part to take care of Jihaadi apparatus.



Put yourself in Indian shoes and visualise the obvious Indian reaction.

When Pakistan can find a way to destabilize India, ( and it almost succeeded in 1990's in Kashmir and in 1980's in Punjab ) then who can stop Doval and company to try the same stunts in your country.

Who knows Pakistan might not be as lucky as India.

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## faithfulguy

sady said:


> With BJP-RSS and Indian media stoking up Pakistan hate, Kashmir remaining highly militarised and Doval remaining security Czar India should forget in, never gonna happen.
> Pakistan is on the verge of controlling all types of Jihadis Kashmir oriented or Afghanistan based on Pakistani land anyway, however it can't be said for support of Militants in red corridor or indigenous Kashmiri fighters. If India gets out of Drug induced stupor and euphoria and realise disintegration or isolation of Pakistan is a failing investment and like grownups co exist with mutual benefit.
> 
> Looking at thought process of most Indians here on this forum and elsewhere, peace in our area is a distant dream. The years of being fed shi* has become an integral part of national psyche, in contrast with Pakistan where visceral hate for India was not seen untill few years when Indian involvement in pseudo religious terror was established. India has two options;
> 
> Current course and see indigenous movements getting a new life in India.
> Stop terror support in Pakistan from Afghanistan , move towards a Kashmir solution acceptable to every party and then see a balance in how India fits into Euroasian block. Pakistan is ready to take on its part to take care of Jihaadi apparatus.



Would it be a possible solution if both India and Pakistan release their own part of Kashmir and create a new Muslim Kashmir country?

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## Imtiaz New York

Starlord said:


> Unless India stop Supporting TTP in Afghanistan and BLA/BRA in Baluchistan, Peace will never have a chance .. but the Idea is very awesome to Connect India , Pakistan , Iran and Turkey Via Rail line ..it can extend to China , Russia , Bangladesh as well ..


Terrorism is in Indian blood, they can't help it. Don't know how India could link their rail without crossing Pakistan unless via sea tunnel. Their dreams will never come true unless Pakistan let it happen. They have no way to link their any system without Pakistan but first of all India must denounce terrorism, supporting terrorism, funds terrorism, RAW & NDS must be demolished first, free Kashmir, stop killing innocent, interference in Pakistan. They must denounce all terrorism



Laozi said:


> Put yourself in Indian shoes and visualise the obvious Indian reaction.
> 
> When Pakistan can find a way to destabilize India, ( and it almost succeeded in 1990's in Kashmir and in 1980's in Punjab ) then who can stop Doval and company to try the same stunts in your country.
> 
> Who knows Pakistan might not be as lucky as India.


Look who is talking.
Pakistan destabilizing India or India destabilizing Pakistan. India funds terrorism, sending terrorist to Pakistan murdering innocent people, murdering Kashmiris, India is state sponsored terrorist nation

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

No matter how India want to explores the way to get to Iran, Turkey, it has to pass through Pakistan, this article just reveal how envious India is to access to Middle east and Central Asia by land, maybe India is just to shy to admit that it wants to join CPEC , China has no objection for India to join CPEC, now it's up to Pakistanis friends.

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## khansaheeb

RISING SUN said:


> Yes that is true, however if there is will, there will be way for co-operation.



India finally facing reality and wants to join CPEC, but doesn't have the decency to beg directly.

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## Star Expedition

This is stratigic action. Very wise

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## RISING SUN

NakedLunch said:


> They could tunnel under Pakistan. LOL!


That is economically & technically not possible at present, so non starter.



CHACHA"G" said:


> This will be a great Idea , If we can install proper monitoring system and proper hazard analysis system with other modern tools .
> I am all in favour of IRAN-PAKISTAN-INDIA gas pipe line as I am in favour of IRAN-PAK-CHINA gas and oil pipe lines , but if the price is right .
> TAPI is coming too.
> We can still be enemy and we can also do fair trade , My cry is we don't have people on Pakistani side who can guard Pakistan's interest , but we have people like NS and AZ who only want there benefits no matter what happen to Pakistan.
> Because of these people we still don't have any fair trade agreement or any thing with India or even with IRAN. Personal interest always kill national interest and they also create negativity about most positive things.


Fair points, however to my best understanding, containerized shipment is safest way for logistics. It's easier to build monitoring system for this kind of logistics & goods movement. And yes I thought initially IPI will be built also, still a supporter. In regards to lack of responsible manpower, even we have lack of those, however once opportunity comes knocking, people naturally adapt leadership role.

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## sady

Laozi said:


> Put yourself in Indian shoes and visualise the obvious Indian reaction.
> 
> When Pakistan can find a way to destabilize India, ( and it almost succeeded in 1990's in Kashmir and in 1980's in Punjab ) then who can stop Doval and company to try the same stunts in your country.
> 
> Who knows Pakistan might not be as lucky as India.


Nobody succeeds in such warfare. If you take current insurgencies and terror and multiply it with 20 Pakistan will still be standing in 20 years time and India will be burning atleast ten times if not more. For people like Doval and likewise in Pakistan holding a hammer everything is a nail. They are people of a limited mind, vision and horizons. They feel in deception lies success however in reality fairplay, trust and confidence building benefits all parties involved more than playing a number on the opposition. If you think India can successfully dismember Pakistan by playing childish games, live a day or two in Pakistan and you will know this Doval guy is hoodwinking India bigtime ( he claims to have lived here for a longtime surprisingly) No amount of bloodshed and terror can defeat Pakistaniat. On the contrary since the terror in Pakistan in previously no go areas like some places in Karachi, Sindh,Baluchistan and FATA have been brought under full writ of Gov. Pak Army which had no anti terror training or LIC training is now providing world with anti terror doctrine, strategy and tactics. Our police once shabby is now being trained to be first responder to terror in an effective way. We will adapt and adapt some more if needed be. History speaks of resilience of this region for many centuries.

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## Fu huajiao

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> No matter how India want to explores the way to get to Iran, Turkey, it has to pass through Pakistan, this article just reveal how envious India is to access to Middle east and Central Asia by land, maybe India is just to shy to admit that it wants to join CPEC , China has no objection for India to join CPEC, now it's up to Pakistanis friends.

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## sady

faithfulguy said:


> Would it be a possible solution if both India and Pakistan release their own part of Kashmir and create a new Muslim Kashmir country?


It could be or for a start just demilitarising both parts can be good start. Giving Jammu to India, Kashmir valley an independent country and Azad Kashmir to Pakistan is a viable solution. It all depends on realisation in India that status quo is hurting India and this region, till it stop its efforts to outwit Pakistan by pressurising into proxy war and shy away from root cause. If India thinks it can make Kashmir too costly for Pakistan by such tactics then India has not understood psyche of a Pakistani. A Pakistani's mind does not work in an ambit of profit and loss as an Indian's does. It works in ambit of what is mine and what is right. A Pakistani will spend all his money in litigation for a piece of land that is not even worth the trouble.

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## faithfulguy

sady said:


> It could be or for a start just demilitarising both parts can be good start. Giving Jammu to India, Kashmir valley an independent country and Azad Kashmir to Pakistan is a viable solution. It all depends on realisation in India that status quo is hurting India and this region, till it stop its efforts to outwit Pakistan by pressurising into proxy war and shy away from root cause. If India thinks it can make Kashmir too costly for Pakistan by such tactics then India has not understood psyche of a Pakistani. A Pakistani's mind does not work in an ambit of profit and loss as an Indian's does. It works in ambit of what is mine and what is right. A Pakistani will spend all his money in litigation for a piece of land that is not even worth the trouble.



That is a good start. But I think a more fair solution is that half of Azard Kashmir, the whole Indian occupied Kashmir as well as Ladakh should be a new country. Pakistan keeps Gilgit Balistan while India keeps Jammu. That way both countries give up parts of existing Kashmir to the new country and keep part of the area under conflict. Maybe trump can moderate that deal.


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## PaklovesTurkiye

Is this idea going to rival Chinese OBOR? Indians will portray it as a counterweight to Chinese OBOR...

I m all for it if Indians don't have any bad intentions...If this thing can guarantee peace in Kashmir...I am all for it...No one will mind...

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## Goenitz

Laozi said:


> Put yourself in Indian shoes and visualise the obvious Indian reaction.
> 
> When Pakistan can find a way to destabilize India, ( and it almost succeeded in 1990's in Kashmir and in 1980's in Punjab ) then who can stop Doval and company to try the same stunts in your country.
> 
> Who knows Pakistan might not be as lucky as India.


1971 bro... 1971


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## Itachi

People on high horses are ignoring one crucial fact (among several others).

*Even if* Pakistan joins in with India and let's it make a route through Punjab/KPK/Balochistan *what if* war starts? What then?

*Even if* India joins CPEC or joins in a agreement with China (and China's other neighbors) i.e China-Russia-Iran-Turkey or China-Kyrgyzstan/Uzkebistan/Turkmenistan-Iran-Turkey. Will China (and/or other Muslim countries) still honor the agreement and trade with India in case of a Indo-Pak war?







_The answer to this thread is simple._ No matter how much India wants to join with M.E/C.A./Europe, it has to go through pro-Pakistani countries with whom it's either on good or neutral terms; terms that will definitely change in times of war.

No one wants a hegemonic India in the region (or in the surrounding regions) especially one that is supported by the US & Israel.

*Also* what does India have to bring onto the table? What commodities is it going to trade with in exchange for gas from Iran (for example), if it's just a one way trade in exchange for cash then India won't gain anything.

On the other hand, anything that India brings on table except for cash is going to be competing against domestic, Pakistani, Chinese and countless other countries products. So, *what *can India truly present other than cash?

@Indian members, please reply to this post with what India can bring on the table. Interesting...

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## Laozi

Imtiaz New York said:


> Terrorism is in Indian blood, they can't help it.


How would you feel if an Indian makes such comments about Pakistanis in general.



Imtiaz New York said:


> Look who is talking.
> Pakistan destabilizing India or India destabilizing Pakistan. India funds terrorism, sending terrorist to Pakistan murdering innocent people, murdering Kashmiris, India is state sponsored terrorist nation


For thirty years from 1980's onwards Indians knew what Pakistani establishment was doing in India but nobody helped us nor believed us. Now it is your turn to face the heat, You know that Modi is a mass murderer and India is a state sponsoring terrorism but you can't do anything about it. The problem is, that world at large has stopped believing this narrative of your country.



sady said:


> Nobody succeeds in such warfare. If you take current insurgencies and terror and multiply it with 20 Pakistan will still be standing in 20 years time and India will be burning atleast ten times if not more. For people like Doval and likewise in Pakistan holding a hammer everything is a nail. They are people of a limited mind, vision and horizons. They feel in deception lies success however in reality fairplay, trust and confidence building benefits all parties involved more than playing a number on the opposition. If you think India can successfully dismember Pakistan by playing childish games, live a day or two in Pakistan and you will know this Doval guy is hoodwinking India bigtime ( he claims to have lived here for a longtime surprisingly) No amount of bloodshed and terror can defeat Pakistaniat. On the contrary since the terror in Pakistan in previously no go areas like some places in Karachi, Sindh,Baluchistan and FATA have been brought under full writ of Gov. Pak Army which had no anti terror training or LIC training is now providing world with anti terror doctrine, strategy and tactics. Our police once shabby is now being trained to be first responder to terror in an effective way. We will adapt and adapt some more if needed be. History speaks of resilience of this region for many centuries.


Whatever you have stated appears quite reasonable but Pakistan have to stop people who idolize Mumtaz Qadri and refrain people from naming their kids after OBL



Goenitz said:


> 1971 bro... 1971


Exactly !!!! you don't want a repetition of history



Itachi said:


> please reply to this post with what India can bring on the table. Interesting...


India will make sure that Pakistani textile industry is taken over by BD and Vietnam then it can provide a land route for exporting these products to Europe ....

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## Itachi

Laozi said:


> India will make sure that Pakistani textile industry is taken over by BD and Vietnam then it can provide a land route for exporting these products to Europe ....



So, what does India gain except for implementing your master plan? 

All the cash flows to Vietnam & Bangladesh.


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## my2cents

Itachi said:


> So, what does India gain except for implementing your master plan?
> 
> All the cash flows to Vietnam & Bangladesh.



All the illegal Bangladeshis in India will go back to BD. It will ruin your garment industry. Two birds with one stone. After all we can dream big.


----------



## soundHound

With the other side of fence, majoring mostly in throwing bombs, grenades, suicide vests or themselves am not sure even if it gets implemented how govt going to protect it. Better Idea will be to explore HSR/expressway connectivity up-to Kandla port, following sea route until Chabahar, and then foraying deep into Iran,Turkey and rest of Europe and Russia.


----------



## Itachi

my2cents said:


> All the illegal Bangladeshis in India will go back to BD. It will ruin your garment industry. Two birds with one stone. After all we can dream big.



I don't think millions of Bangladeshis will move back from India just cuz one sector of the whole government is doing well than others. Maybe, they will call for a unification with Pakistan when they see it's regional economic rise? (and see India's hegemonic stance). 

2 can tango but only 1 can win. 

Please make a better effort at trolling.


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## Laozi

Itachi said:


> So, what does India gain except for implementing your master plan?
> 
> All the cash flows to Vietnam & Bangladesh.


Now you are getting what exactly Pakistan is gaining by blocking trade and trade routes with India.

BTW whose master plan is that India shouldn't become a NSG member, UNSC member, denied access to western Asia.

Who is gaining what ?????


----------



## coffee_cup

hussain0216 said:


> What person, thing, group do you hate most in the world?
> 
> × that hate by 1000
> 
> = how we feel about the indians



No we do not hate Indians.

Our issue with India is only her support of cross-border terrorism in the region. If India stops financing/training/arming terrorist proxies in Pakistan and other neighboring countries, we are fine with them.

And then there is this issue of Kashmir, which I am quite sure could be solved once India comes to her senses.


----------



## Itachi

Laozi said:


> Now you are getting what exactly Pakistan is gaining by blocking trade and trade routes with India.
> 
> BTW whose master plan is that India shouldn't become a NSG member, UNSC member, denied access to western Asia.
> 
> Who is gaining what ?????



Dude, please stay on topic. I just asked all the Indian members as to what India will be bringing on table in return, that's all. I'm seriously curious. Everything you said above is for another time, another thread. 

Cheers.


----------



## Laozi

Itachi said:


> Dude, please stay on topic. I just asked all the Indian members as to what India will be bringing on table in return, that's all. I'm seriously curious. Everything you said above is for another time, another thread.
> 
> Cheers.


What is China bringing on the table in CPEC ?

Similarly Indians will be creating infra but without infringing upon your sovereignty.

Mutual relations may improve, defence spending may reduce


----------



## coffee_cup

Laozi said:


> What is China bringing on the table in CPEC ?
> 
> Similarly Indians will be creating infra but without infringing upon your sovereignty.
> 
> Mutual relations may improve, defence spending may reduce



India has a huge negative baggage that she carries and needs first to get rid off, i.e. her support for cross-border terrorism for more than the past half century in Pakistan and other neighboring countries. And which has resulted in 100s of thousands of innocent civilians death (LTTE, Mukti Bahini, BLA, TTP etc).

And also all those wars and current war mongering with Pakistan.

That alone is something where China beats you hands down if it ever comes to chosing between you and China.

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## Itachi

Laozi said:


> What is China bringing on the table in CPEC ?
> 
> Similarly Indians will be creating infra but without infringing upon your sovereignty.
> 
> Mutual relations may improve, defence spending may reduce



Again, let's focus on India, not Pakistan, not China, not Bangladesh.

What do you mean by "creating infra"? Please elaborate. Reduction in defense spending? How?

Also, how will India bypass Pakistan? By China? Will they allow it? If so, then they can block it too. Is there any solution that doesn't involve Pakistan or China? 

Sea route?






From India to Oman-KSA-Iran(will they allow a underwater link between them and KSA? )-Turkey-Europe.


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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

RISING SUN said:


> Yes that is true, however if there is will, there will be way for co-operation.


This rail plan is part of CPEC. you are welcome to join cpec.


----------



## my2cents

Itachi said:


> Dude, please stay on topic. I just asked all the Indian members as to what India will be bringing on table in return, that's all. I'm seriously curious. Everything you said above is for another time, another thread.
> 
> Cheers.



Fresh produce, grains, spices, garments, pharmaceuticals, automobiles, rice, buffalo meat, leather goods, machinery, steel, cement etc


----------



## Laozi

coffee_cup said:


> India has a huge *negative baggage* that she carries and needs first to get rid off, i.e. her support for cross-border terrorism for more than the past half century in Pakistan and other neighboring countries. And which has resulted in 100s of thousands of innocent civilians death (LTTE, Mukti Bahini, BLA, TTP etc).
> 
> And also all those wars and current war mongering with Pakistan.
> 
> That alone is something where China beats you hands down if it ever comes to chosing between you and China.



Indian negative baggage is just a recent Pakistani narrative coined by your establishment to relieve International pressure.

Has Pakistan ever raised this issue two years back on any International Forum. ( If you are thinking about bilateral Sherman Sheik incidence then start with Lahore declaration )

Has any country beside Pakistan has ever accused India of sponsoring Terrorism.



Itachi said:


> Again, let's focus on India, not Pakistan, not China, not Bangladesh.
> 
> What do you mean by "creating infra"? Please elaborate. Reduction in defense spending? How?
> 
> Also, how will India bypass Pakistan? By China? Will they allow it? If so, then they can block it too. Is there any solution that doesn't involve Pakistan or China?
> 
> Sea route?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From India to Oman-KSA-Iran(will they allow a underwater link between them and KSA? )-Turkey-Europe.



Do read OP before indulging in seemingly Intelligent discussions

This might help clear some of your doubts



RISING SUN said:


> The UN Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific (ESCAP) has been promoting the project for years through holding various conferences and carrying out feasibility studies on rail network between the countries. *ESCAP has identified Dhaka-Kolkata-Delhi-Amritsar-Lahore-Islamabad-Zahedan-Tehran-Istanbul as the possible rail route,* according to a senior Indian Railway Ministry official. The route has the strategic advantage of connecting the capitals of these countries.


----------



## coffee_cup

Laozi said:


> Indian negative baggage is just a recent Pakistani narrative coined by your establishment to relieve International pressure.
> 
> Has Pakistan ever raised this issue two years back on any International Forum. ( If you are thinking about bilateral Sherman Sheik incidence then start with Lahore declaration )
> 
> Has any country beside Pakistan has ever accused India of sponsoring Terrorism.



It is an established fact, the one none other than your own fanatic PM/ NSA / DM so openly gloat about.

You can twist as you wish to, but deaths of 100s of thousands of innocent civilians and introduction of the monster of suicide bombers in the region is on your shoulders.

As a goodwill gesture, India must IMMEDIATELY stop her support for cross-border terrorism in the region, apologize to other neighboring countries for the attrocities her terrorist proxies have commited for more than half century. Promise not to repeat that again and then we are back in business.

All else is hot air, wont get you any favors and you can plan whatever you want to, you ain't gonna get any transit via Pakistan.



my2cents said:


> Fresh produce, grains, spices, garments, pharmaceuticals, automobiles, rice, buffalo meat, leather goods, machinery, steel, cement etc



A lot of these are in direct competition with our own exports. Why should we give you an edge by allowing a fast track transit via our country?

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## MarcsPakistan

NakedLunch said:


> What about Vedic flying trains? They say they have blueprints for extreme advanced technology thousands of years old. Its in a big book somewhere in India.


This technology main focus is that "How to survive in a cave without fire " possibly.


----------



## Laozi

coffee_cup said:


> It is an established fact, the one none other than your own fanatic PM/ NSA / DM so openly gloat about.


Stop getting confused with terrorism and BD liberation. Read history written by neutral sources. BTW For last two years Indians have started needling Pakistan and we are loving it 



coffee_cup said:


> You can twist as you wish to, but deaths of 100s of thousands of innocent civilians and *introduction of the monster of* *suicide bombers* in the region is on your shoulders.


You really believe in what you write or just assume that others are insanely gullible ???



coffee_cup said:


> As a goodwill gesture, India must IMMEDIATELY stop her support for cross-border terrorism in the region, apologize to other neighboring countries for the attrocities her terrorist proxies have commited for more than half century. Promise not to repeat that again and then we are back in business


Shouldn't America and Pakistan should start this healthy tradition which you advising for India ?



coffee_cup said:


> All else is hot air, wont get you any favors and you can plan whatever you want to,* you ain't gonna get any transit via Pakistan*.


That brings us back to square one.

India will do anything to get what it wants

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## PaklovesTurkiye

soundHound said:


> With the other side of fence, majoring mostly in trowing bomb, grenades, bomb vests or themselves am not sure even if it gets implemented how govt going to protect it.



Exactly...Indians will have hard time passing their product through the land on which Indians tried to inflict harm...On the other hand, Chinese, Iranians, Central Asians will go easy and smooth thr' CPEC and land of pure.


----------



## coffee_cup

Laozi said:


> Stop getting confused with terrorism and BD liberation. Read history written by neutral sources. BTW For last two years Indians has started needling Pakistan and we are loving it



There you go, the terrorist proxies that unleash havoc on civilian population are "liberation movements" for you. Fine, that is the end of that discussion then.



Laozi said:


> You really believe in what you write or just assume that others are insanely gullible ???



Your trained terrorists LTTE introduced the maniac of suicide bombings in the region, it is a well established fact. But whom am I kidding by expecting delusional Indians to live in reality for just once?



Laozi said:


> Shouldn't *America *and Pakistan should start this healthy tradition which you advising for India ?


Well, being the best buddies of America, whom you have just rented out your country to use as base for attacking China in case of war, why don't you take up this directly with them? 



Laozi said:


> That brings us back to square one.
> 
> India will do anything to get what it wants



Yeah right, you can continue exporting terrorism via your terrorist proxies, but we'll defeat them just like Sri Lanka did. And at the same time your own internal insurgenices are getting stronger by the day. Lose-lose for the whole region, this is something that Indians are best at!

You ain't gonna get any transit. Period! Carry on with your day-dreaming.


----------



## BABA AGHORI

Itachi said:


> People on high horses are ignoring one crucial fact (among several others).
> 
> *Even if* Pakistan joins in with India and let's it make a route through Punjab/KPK/Balochistan *what if* war starts? What then?
> 
> *Even if* India joins CPEC or joins in a agreement with China (and China's other neighbors) i.e China-Russia-Iran-Turkey or China-Kyrgyzstan/Uzkebistan/Turkmenistan-Iran-Turkey. Will China (and/or other Muslim countries) still honor the agreement and trade with India in case of a Indo-Pak war?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The answer to this thread is simple._ No matter how much India wants to join with M.E/C.A./Europe, it has to go through pro-Pakistani countries with whom it's either on good or neutral terms; terms that will definitely change in times of war.
> 
> No one wants a hegemonic India in the region (or in the surrounding regions) especially one that is supported by the US & Israel.
> 
> *Also* what does India have to bring onto the table? What commodities is it going to trade with in exchange for gas from Iran (for example), if it's just a one way trade in exchange for cash then India won't gain anything.
> 
> On the other hand, anything that India brings on table except for cash is going to be competing against domestic, Pakistani, Chinese and countless other countries products. So, *what *can India truly present other than cash?
> 
> @Indian members, please reply to this post with what India can bring on the table. Interesting...


What Pakistan produce can not compete with India or China.. with the new power projects churning power at 15 PKR per unit and competing with India where new projects are around 5PKR per unit and China even less than that India is producing

Moreover with CPEC connecting China through Xinjiang provence which produce 60% of cotton for China. Pakistan can easily imagine what will be the future of textile business.
India can easily do with Kandla connected with chabahar as of now, it will only increase the time by a day or two. nothing more.
What Paksitan would be loosing leverage over India by controlling supply lines for India. What India can do is and will continue to do is to put pressure on CPEC by anyway possible because Pakistan has promissed garrenty returns to China. Also make sure there is no easy way to connect via Afg. to CAR for Pak.
India is making a fetilizer plant in Iran and that will bring down the price for urea and DAP even more for our farmers thus putting a lot of pressure on price of agricultural comoditities and make it harder to compete internationally.
India has nothing much to loose, just trying to make an anti development non corporative image of Pakistan at global level.

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## Laozi

coffee_cup said:


> There you go, the terrorist proxies that unleash havoc on civilian population are "liberation movements" for you. Fine, that is the end of that discussion then.


If Indians have unleashed havoc on BD civilians then it is of course End Of Discussion



coffee_cup said:


> Your trained terrorists LTTE introduced the maniac of suicide bombings in the region, it is a well established fact. But whom am I kidding by expecting delusional Indians to live in reality for just once?


No India and Hinduism can never promote suicide or suicide bombing it is against religious beliefs



coffee_cup said:


> Well, being the best buddies of America, whom you have just rented out your country to use as base for attacking China in case of war, why don't you take up this directly with them?


We know who sold Gwadar and who used all your bases in war on Terror.

Now name one Indian base which is used by our best buddy.



coffee_cup said:


> Yeah right, you can continue exporting terrorism via your terrorist proxies, but we'll defeat them just like Sri Lanka did. And at the same time your own internal insurgenices are getting stronger by the day. Lose-lose for the whole region, this is something that Indians are best at!
> 
> You ain't gonna get any transit. Period! Carry on with your day-dreaming.



Don't worry we will catch you napping. Be ready


----------



## Goenitz

Laozi said:


> Exactly !!!! you don't want a repetition of history


my mere point was who supported terrorists.. first!!!!


----------



## coffee_cup

BABA AGHORI said:


> What Pakistan produce can not compete with India or China.. with the new power projects churning power at 15 PKR per unit and competing with India where new projects are around 5PKR per unit and China even less than that.
> India is
> Moreover with CPEC connecting China through Xinjiang provence which produce 60% of cotton for China. Pakistan can easily imagine what will be the future of textile business.
> India can easily do with Kandla connected with chabahar as of now, it will only increase the time by a day or two. nothing more.
> What Paksitan would be loosing leverage over India by controlling supply lines for India. What India can do is and will continue to do is to put pressure on CPEC by anyway possible because Pakistan has promissed garrenty returns to China. Also make sure there is no easy way to connect via Afg. to CAR for Pak.
> India is making a fetilizer plant in Iran and that will bring down the price for urea and DAP even more for our farmers thus putting a lot of pressure on price of agricultural comoditities and make it harder to compete internationally.
> India has nothing much to loose, just trying to make an anti development non corporative image of Pakistan at global level.



Thank you for all the valuable advice my friend. 

But we ask you only one favor: Stop exporting terrorism to Pakistan. That would be the greatest help you could give us.

Let all the rest be our headache.


----------



## Laozi

Goenitz said:


> my mere point was who supported terrorists.. first!!!!


Perception about things change with time. Human slavery was admissible, colonial rule was admissible, armed militancy was admissible.

You have sent armed Pakhtoons in Kashmir in 1947 therefore you started it. You have tried to take revenge of 1971 by arming Khalistanis and Kashmiris. We know that and It is Even between us now, Isn't it ...... ??

Now these things are not acceptable and you have to do that very surreptitiously, like Doval is doing


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## Goenitz

@walkingtall your point may be valid and idk about it but @Laozi your Kashmir point isn't.. as by red cliff award it should be part of pakistan.. if u apply Maharaja example then apply it on Deccan too...


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## BABA AGHORI

coffee_cup said:


> Thank you for all the valuable advice my friend.
> 
> But we ask you only one favor: Stop exporting terrorism to Pakistan. That would be the greatest help you could give us.
> 
> Let all the rest be our headache.


Terrorism has a funny corilation with freedom fight - _my terrorist your freedom fighters, your terrorist my freedom fighters.. _


----------



## Sheikh Rauf

This is how its gonna looks like. every one in region have to solve their differences. without that we sud be ready to distroy our own future. india have biggest responsibility since its bigger and occupied Kashmir there are more independant movments in india then combine in asia. prosper Asia is suitable for everyone. once we start doing business we might not care about borders but before that someone have to take grudge out of converting everyone into hinduism.


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## BABA AGHORI

Sheikh Rauf said:


> This is how its gonna looks like. every one in region have to solve their differences. without that we sud be ready to distroy our own future. india have biggest responsibility since its bigger and occupied Kashmir there are more independant movments in india then combine in asia. prosper Asia is suitable for everyone. once we start doing business we might not care about borders but before that someone have to take grudge out of converting everyone into hinduism.
> 
> View attachment 383657
> View attachment 383657
> View attachment 383666
> 
> 
> View attachment 383675


I belive, India will connect kandla with Chabahar and continue it's current policies towards its western borders until things fall in line.
Entities who wants to keep there interest ahead of the regional interest will loose the game. World is far more inter-related now and playing a spoil spot will only backfire in very near future.

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## omega supremme

T-123456 said:


> I know but you do business with India and this is business.
> It will benefit your economy so,it will be a good thing for all involved.




India puts those proposals on the table which are most beneficial to it but they always have an ego problem when any SAARC meeting is held in Pakistan, why we waste our time for them when they don't hear our proposals.


----------



## coffee_cup

Laozi said:


> No India and Hinduism can never promote suicide or suicide bombing it is against religious beliefs



Except Indians have done it already, facts speak for themselves. Indian trained LTTE were the first ones to use suicide bombings in the region.



Laozi said:


> We know who sold Gwadar and who used all your bases in war on Terror.



Pakistan and China are staunch allies, "higher than mountains and deeper than see ...", remember? So we'll offer our ally anything that is mutually beneficial for us.

Whereas you are asking us to ask your ally America to stop supporting terrorism, why don't you tell it directly?




Laozi said:


> Now name one Indian base which is used by our best buddy.



The United States and India signed an agreement on Monday governing the use of each other's land, air and naval bases for repair and resupply, a step toward building defense ties as they seek to counter the growing maritime assertiveness of China.





Laozi said:


> Don't worry we will catch you napping. Be ready



Sure. 



BABA AGHORI said:


> Terrorism has a funny corilation with freedom fight - _my terrorist your freedom fighters, your terrorist my freedom fighters.. _



Those scums, TTP/BLA, who are blowing up schools, mosques, churches, hospitals.... 

You call them freedom fighters?


----------



## BABA AGHORI

coffee_cup said:


> It is an established fact, the one none other than your own fanatic PM/ NSA / DM so openly gloat about.
> 
> You can twist as you wish to, but deaths of 100s of thousands of innocent civilians and introduction of the monster of suicide bombers in the region is on your shoulders.
> 
> As a goodwill gesture, India must IMMEDIATELY stop her support for cross-border terrorism in the region, apologize to other neighboring countries for the attrocities her terrorist proxies have commited for more than half century. Promise not to repeat that again and then we are back in business.
> 
> All else is hot air, wont get you any favors and you can plan whatever you want to, you ain't gonna get any transit via Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of these are in direct competition with our own exports. Why should we give you an edge by allowing a fast track transit via our country?


India did not ask for overland access to Pakistan, We are extermly comfortable withh status quo and build it's way through chabahar...
Overland access through Pakistan will be good to have but not must to have for India to do business with rest of the world. India should continue it's polocies towards western borders no matter what. And raise the cost of peace and keep area of action out of it's own borders.



coffee_cup said:


> Those scums, TTP/BLA, who are blowing up schools, mosques, churches, hospitals....
> 
> You call them freedom fighters?



AAAHHHH do you know some scums of same type do burn schools in Kashmir valley too.

It's a problem you need to introspect and act accordingly. It is hard but we can manage the cost.. can you ?? It is the game of who will blink first.


----------



## coffee_cup

BABA AGHORI said:


> AAAHHHH do you know some scums of same type do burn schools in Kashmir valley too.
> .



Kashmiri freedom fighters do not blow up schools, hospitals, mosques, churches. This is Indian propaganda without any substance and world knows it.

They fight against half million strong millitary who is occupying their land.




BABA AGHORI said:


> It's a problem you need to introspect and act accordingly. It is hard but we can manage the cost.. can you ?? It is the game of who will blink first.



You seemed quite worried about Pakistan losing a lot economically if CPEC is completed and now you are telling me that you are quite happy to inflict more loses on us via your terrorism?

It is quite hard to take you seriously!


----------



## BABA AGHORI

coffee_cup said:


> Kashmiri freedom fighters do not blow up schools, hospitals, mosques, churches. This is Indian propaganda without any substance and world knows it.
> 
> They fight against half million strong millitary who is occupying their land.


We can say the same for the scums on the other side mate... 
Status quo maintained... India should continue what it is doing. Coz else adversery thinks they can dectate terms to India.


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## coffee_cup

BABA AGHORI said:


> We can say the same for the scums on the other side mate...
> Status quo maintained... India should continue what it is doing. Coz else adversery thinks they can dectate terms to India.



Ok so then let me repeat what I wrote in my previous post:

You seemed quite worried about Pakistan losing a lot economically if CPEC is completed and now you are telling me that you are quite happy to inflict more loses on us via your terrorism?

It is quite hard to take you seriously!


----------



## Laozi

coffee_cup said:


> Except Indians have done it already, facts speak for themselves. Indian trained LTTE were the first ones to use suicide bombings in the region.



Okay, Can you tell me when was the last you time that you heard that any @sshole have blown himself in India to kill innocent people.



coffee_cup said:


> Pakistan and China are staunch allies, "higher than mountains and deeper than see ...", remember? So we'll offer our ally anything that is mutually beneficial for us.
> 
> Whereas you are asking us to ask your ally America to stop supporting terrorism, why don't you tell it directly?



If we agree to share American bases on equal footing then we become a vassal state and if you surrender your sovereignty in Gwadar then your friendship is unquestionable


----------



## BABA AGHORI

coffee_cup said:


> Ok so then let me repeat what I wrote in my previous post:
> 
> You seemed quite worried about Pakistan losing a lot economically if CPEC is completed and now you are telling me that you are quite happy to inflict more loses on us via your terrorism?
> 
> It is quite hard to take you seriously!



You have some comprehension problem I believe. 

We are really happy the way Pakistan is handling its Forigen policy and economic policy. This is what we want Pakistan to do. Every thing is alligned as we want.
I am not worried how Pakistan losing economically with CPEC. and why should I be worried...  just highligeted the points.
Your loses is your business. You should solve it urself.
As for India, it should maintain the policy the way it is. Status quo in the region is exactly in India's interest. Keep increasing the economic gap as much as possible.


----------



## coffee_cup

Laozi said:


> Okay, Can you tell me when was the last you time that you heard that any @sshole have blown himself in India to kill innocent people.



Rajiv Ghandhi says, "Hello my dear Laozi, how old are you?"



Laozi said:


> If we agree to share American bases on equal footing then we become a vassal state and if you surrender your sovereignty in Gwadar then your friendship is unquestionable



To use USA bases against whom? Canada? Mexico? 

Are you that blind to see this is one sided treaty, where USA will use your basis against China if a war breaks out and you are automatically dragged into the war. 

Whereas Pakistan-China are very strong allies since the last 65 years or so. Both are well known to help each other in defensive matters under worst circumstances even if doing so would put one country in danger.

I doubt USA will ever do anything against her own self-interests in case of India. This country is known to tear off treaties whenever it doesn't suit "Amercian interests". So good luck with that!



BABA AGHORI said:


> You have some comprehension problem I believe.
> 
> We are really happy the way Pakistan is handling its Forigen policy and economic policy. This is what we want Pakistan to do. Every thing is alligned as we want.
> I am not worried how Pakistan losing economically with CPEC. and why should I be worried...  just highligeted the points.
> Your loses is your business. You should solve it urself.
> As for India, it should maintain the policy the way it is. Status quo in the region is exactly in India's interest. Keep increasing the economic gap as much as possible.



Fine no problem with that. That's why I said, let it be our headache. If you are that worried, just stop your support for cross-border terrorism.

If you are not willing to do that then at least be a man and stop playing victim and running to every country in the world complaining about Pakistan if something goes wrong in India due to her own flawed policies.

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## Taimoor Khan

Are they building some sort of space bridge to achieve this?

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## BABA AGHORI

coffee_cup said:


> Fine no problem with that. That's why I said, let it be our headache. If you are that worried, just stop your support for cross-border terrorism.
> 
> If you are not willing to do that then at least be a man and stop playing victim and running to every country in the world complaining about Pakistan if something goes wrong in India due to her own flawed policies.



Why are you asking others to stop doing this and that... Please find out the cause and address it in your policies. India have a policy and she is sticking to it. If something happens wrong in India, India have already figured out how to fix it on the source of origin. And it is working fine for India as for now.


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## coffee_cup

BABA AGHORI said:


> Why are you asking others to stop doing this and that... Please find out the cause and address it in your policies. India have a policy and she is sticking to it. If something happens wrong in India, India have already figured out how to fix it on the source of origin. And it is working fine for India as for now.



Ok you are getting off-topic now.

As long as India does not stop her cross-border terrorism in Pakistan there is no way that Pakistan will allow India any transit to any country via its territory.

Lose-lose for all the countries in the region, especially for India. Only due to Indian stubbornness and living in delusional state where she dreams of "Akhand Baharat" and thinks she is some kind of supa powa.

We are fine with the status quo.

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## RoadRunner401

BATMAN said:


> Indian economy cannot afford transit through Pakistan.
> In order to make Indian dream materialize, they need serious amounts of subsidy from Pakistan.
> Perhaps US / IMF can negotiate some support via politicians of Pakistan.
> 
> 
> Sorry I didn't read your remarks before... this might be good proposal for both Indians and Iranians.



I would love to know which planet, you are from @BATMAN


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## BABA AGHORI

coffee_cup said:


> Ok you are getting off-topic now.
> 
> As long as India does not stop her cross-border terrorism in Pakistan there is no way that Pakistan will allow India any transit to any country via its territory.
> 
> Lose-lose for all the countries in the region, especially for India. Only due to Indian stubbornness and living in delusional state where she dreams of "Akhand Baharat" and thinks she is some kind of supa powa.




You should stop blaming others and concentrate on solving internal problems. India is not keen for overland passage from Pakistan. India has enough resources to create an alternate and working on it.
India is doing pretty well growing at a very decent pace without the access. India will create an alternate for trade in the region so that no one can be bullied and blackmailed. Region needs entitites who are intreasted in trade rather than creating nuisance for others.
India should keep the cost high for peace. Current policy is working pretty well.

Rail link to Turkey until Chabahar and then via sea link will work perfectly. India is also working on North South Transport corridor. A perfect peacefull entitiy for the CAR region too.


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## Laozi

coffee_cup said:


> Rajiv Ghandhi says, "Hello my dear Laozi, how old are you?"


Two points:

It happened way back in 1991 more than quarter century ago.

And Rajiv Gandhi was directly responsible for killing LTTE members by sending IPKF

Do post Any recent suicide bombing, the kind which happens everyday



coffee_cup said:


> To use USA bases against whom? Canada? Mexico?


Who knows, who fights against whom in WW 3



coffee_cup said:


> Whereas Pakistan-China are very strong allies since the last 65 years or so.



But did China allied with you when India and Pakistan fought wars ?


coffee_cup said:


> I doubt USA will ever do anything against her own self-interests in case of India.



You can say the same for India.


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## coffee_cup

Laozi said:


> Two points:
> 
> It happened way back in 1991 more than quarter century ago.
> 
> And Rajiv Gandhi was directly responsible for killing LTTE members by sending IPKF



Do you even know what we were discussing?

That it was India who introduced suicide bombings in the region via her terrorist proxy LTTE way back in the past, when no one in the region even knew that something like that exists.

Now try again.

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## Saif-ud-Din Qutuz

No need to engage in any such venture. Once the road belt is completed (CPEC), there would be a rail-line as well. We can extend that where ever we want. India can continue whatever it want to accomplish along with Iran and Russia. It would be another chabahar kinda project.

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## Laozi

coffee_cup said:


> Do you even know what we were discussing?
> 
> That it was India who introduced suicide bombings in the region via her terrorist proxy LTTE way back in the past, when no one in the region even knew that something like that exists.
> 
> Now try again.


So out of thousands of things which you could have learned from 5000 years old civilisation, you people got so carried away with one-off LTTE suicide bombings that you have made that a part of your daily life.

Sad.. You could have opted for anything better.

But Humans are selective and generally choose what attract them 

BTW Indians have stopped committing suicide bombing 25 years back It's high time you re-look your options.


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## Saif-ud-Din Qutuz

Laozi said:


> So out of thousands of things which you could have learned from 5000 years old civilisation, you people got so carried away with one-off LTTE suicide bombings that you have made that a part of your daily life.
> 
> Sad.. You could have opted for anything better.
> 
> But Humans are selective and generally choose what attract them
> 
> BTW Indians have stopped committing suicide bombing 25 years back It's high time you re-look your options.


Indians don't do suicidal attacks. They use sold out Muslims living in India to motivate other Muslims do such attacks. Look what they're doing in Afghanistan. Brainwashing Afghani Muslims, using Indian Muslims to destabilize Pakistan. It's a fact.

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## mrrehan

*India is WEIGHING (Careful consideration) the possibility.*

This is nothing new.

The project is apparently part of the International *North-South Transport Corridor* (NSTC).

Where as CPEC has already start working, gradually it will be more equipped to facilitate more and more economic activity. Including train link. Why India is replicating the existing Idea.

NSTC has more handling of goods for India because India have to

* First ship any thing to their ports (from different part of India)
* Then it will board the cargo ship if all is well.
* From sea, across Pakistani ocean in to Iranian port.
* From Iranian port it will again unloaded from ship to uploaded to trucks or train.
* Now going to respected countries goods belong to.

Using CPEC India can play smart, without bothering ocean.

But yes, either-way, Indian is using NSTC-ocean or CPEC it has to depend on Pakistan specially in case of war. 

At least unavoidable delaying factor is there in NSTC, No escape for India, it's bitter destiny.

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## shahbaz baig

humm i really want to see what can india achieve with 10 berths and 9 meter deep sea by passing the Pakistani sea territory

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## coffee_cup

Laozi said:


> So out of thousands of things which you could have learned from 5000 years old civilisation, you people got so carried away with one-off LTTE suicide bombings that you have made that a part of your daily life.
> 
> Sad.. You could have opted for anything better.
> 
> But Humans are selective and generally choose what attract them
> 
> BTW Indians have stopped committing suicide bombing 25 years back It's high time you re-look your options.



You Indians might have very short memory but those who had to suffer your terrorism for decades do not forget that easily.

Ask Sri Lankans how they had to suffer the suicide bombings of your terrorist proxy LTTE for decades.
*
Fact remains, it is India who introduced suicide bombings in this region!*

Now go on justifying it by twisting history...

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## BABA AGHORI

shahbaz baig said:


> humm i really want to see what can india achieve with 10 berths and 9 meter deep sea by passing the Pakistani sea territory


Pakistan's sea territory means pakistan sovereign waters ? Do you know it is just upto 12 nautical miles...This green and blue region is international sea route..no one can legally stop indian ships in this green blue eez of yours...


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## coffee_cup

BABA AGHORI said:


> Pakistan's sea territory means pakistan sovereign waters ? Do you know it is just upto 12 nautical miles...This green and blue region is international sea route..no one can legally stop indian ships in this green blue eez of yours...



But you can't build pipelines or under-see passage in that region without Pakistan's permission. If you think you can, then go ahead and give it a try,

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## Saif-ud-Din Qutuz

BABA AGHORI said:


> Pakistan's sea territory means pakistan sovereign waters ? Do you know it is just upto 12 nautical miles...This green and blue region is international sea route..no one can legally stop indian ships in this green blue eez of yours...


US thought the same about South China sea. Look whats happening there. Same will happen here as well. Don't worry.


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## Itachi

my2cents said:


> *Fresh produce*, grains, spices, garments, pharmaceuticals, automobiles, rice, buffalo meat, leather goods, machinery, steel, cement etc



How is the produce going to be still fresh by the time it reaches Turkey? 

Also, grains, spices, garments, rice, leather goods, steel & cement are highly industrialized in Pakistan too while China leads in machinery & pharmaceuticals. 

*Plus,* anything that leaves India will be heavily taxed by both China & Pakistan (to increase the cost of each commodity so that it can't compete against theirs). Afterwards, the above commodities being shipped around will have to pay the shipment price too (again, something that will increase the price). Then, the products will be competing against not only domestic but several other countries too (Turkey leads in chinaware/crockery among many other items, Iranian commodities, Chinese commodities, Pakistani commodities & so on and so forth). 



Laozi said:


> Do read OP before indulging in seemingly Intelligent discussions
> 
> This might help clear some of your doubts



I did, that's why I (and many other members before me) said that Pakistan won't allow India any route through it. That's why I was suggesting alternatives, silly. 



BABA AGHORI said:


> What Pakistan produce can not compete with India or China.. with the new power projects churning power at 15 PKR per unit and competing with India where new projects are around 5PKR per unit and China even less than that India is producing



Surely the cost will go down overtime. Plus, you have already mentioned that your produce cannot compete against China's. So end of story. 



BABA AGHORI said:


> Moreover with CPEC connecting China through Xinjiang provence which produce 60% of cotton for China. Pakistan can easily imagine what will be the future of textile business.
> India can easily do with Kandla connected with chabahar as of now, it will only increase the time by a day or two. nothing more.



China first has to fulfill it's own cotton needs before exporting.  Plus, look below.

*Top Cotton Exports by Country*
Below are the 15 countries that exported the highest dollar value worth of cotton during 2015:


China: US$15.8 billion (29.1% of total cotton exports)
India: $7.5 billion (13.8%)
United States: $5.9 billion (10.8%)
Pakistan: $3.1 billion (5.7%)
Hong Kong: $2.3 billion (4.3%)
Vietnam: $1.8 billion (3.2%)
Turkey: $1.7 billion (3.1%)
Italy: $1.5 billion (2.7%)
Brazil: $1.4 billion (2.7%)
Germany: $998.9 million (1.8%)
Uzbekistan: $835.4 million (1.5%)
Australia: $820.6 million (1.5%)
Indonesia: $731.6 million (1.3%)
Spain: $652 million (1.2%)
South Korea: $644.8 million (1.2%)
Despite being 4x the size of Pakistan India's cotton exports are only 2.5x higher than Pakistan's. On top of that, arable land (the is used for crops) is 47.87% of India's total land available. Pakistan's arable land is at 26.02%.

That leads to 1,423,267.5 sq km of arable land for India while for Pakistan, it's 200,581.6 sq km. So, India's arable land is 7x bigger than Pakistan's. 

So, let's end our Pakistan Vs. India discussion. Let's keep it to India, shall we? 

Also, when Chabahar is complete, then we can talk.



BABA AGHORI said:


> What Paksitan would be loosing leverage over India by controlling supply lines for India. What India can do is and will continue to do is to put pressure on CPEC by anyway possible because Pakistan has promissed garrenty returns to China. Also make sure there is no easy way to connect via Afg. to CAR for Pak.
> India is making a fetilizer plant in Iran and that will bring down the price for urea and DAP even more for our farmers thus putting a lot of pressure on price of agricultural comoditities and make it harder to compete internationally.
> India has nothing much to loose, just trying to make an anti development non corporative image of Pakistan at global level.



Again, your diverting from the topic & bringing in CPEC. Keep it to India & it's exports. Also, the plant being made in Iran, you think it won't be taxed? How will the fertilizer be moved back to India? Through sea? Possibly through Pakistani territorial waters (more taxes, higher costs if they avoid Pakistani waters; higher cost either way).

You get the point, hopefully.

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## coffee_cup

BABA AGHORI said:


> yes India can legally lay the pipeline in that area without anyone permission.



Well good luck with that. 

Don't forget to tell me after you have done it without Pakistan's permission, provided this happens in my lifetime...


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## Saif-ud-Din Qutuz

BABA AGHORI said:


> yes India can legally lay the pipeline in that area without anyone permission. There is still time for tht... by that time you can enjoy highly expensive LNG from Qatar.. India rite now need lanes for ships not for pipelines and you can't do anything.
> 
> 
> yeh I just chckd a YouTube video few days back someone screaming on radio.. go away go away in broken English and the other side just gave a sh*t.


Since the other side was China so its only natural for you to say what you said. Reality is, China has scared the hell out of US. China is the super power. The world language would be Chinese instead of English and your army/navy will give same radio calls in broken Chinese in the near future


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## BABA AGHORI

Saif-ud-Din Qutuz said:


> Since the other side was China so its only natural for you to say what you said. Reality is, China has scared the hell out of US. China is the super power. The world language would be Chinese instead of English and your army/navy will give same radio calls in broken Chinese in the near future



One day this one day tht...
Ha ha... good luck dude
You can b a competition to Kapil Sharma .. 

by any chance r u learning Chinese these days ?


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## Saif-ud-Din Qutuz

BABA AGHORI said:


> One day this one day tht...
> Ha ha... good luck dude
> You can b a competition to Kapil Sharma ..
> 
> by any chance r u learning Chinese these days ?


Hahaha why would I need to learn it? We know Chinese already. That's why its our brotherly country


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## Saif-ud-Din Qutuz

BABA AGHORI said:


> ha ha.
> and how u do you English ?  am I allowed to make guesses


Ok, guess it. You're too eager to guess so I won't stop you.


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## shahbaz baig

BABA AGHORI said:


> Pakistan's sea territory means pakistan sovereign waters ? Do you know it is just upto 12 nautical miles...This green and blue region is international sea route..no one can legally stop indian ships in this green blue eez of yours...


Ooh you even dont know what Green color means, it`s mean full full national Jurisdction and soverignty feel free to read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters#International_waters_agreements
You need permission from Pakistan to your every sea activity in pakistan sovereign waters.
btw neither i meant by water sovereign territory nor legally stop indian ships (pakistan has full right to stop any activity in pakistan sovereign waters), but it`s true you need Pakistan Permission even with this international sea route, and there you go, India concern if india join Pakistan by Ground so it`s possible that pakistan can block indian Oil trade if there will be any war like situation, Lolz we can also block your Oil trade through sea route until you dont pay tax by using our sovereign territory either by ground or sea. hope you have understood now


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## DESERT FIGHTER

T-123456 said:


> I know but you do business with India and this is business.
> It will benefit your economy so,it will be a good thing for all involved.


Even most of the business is done through UAE.

Suppose Greece keeps poking Turkiye, supporting terrorists like PKK kind,kills Turkish citizens on border and tries to isolate Turkiye and generally keeps barking against Turkiye on each and every forum available.

What will your govt do?

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## BABA AGHORI

shahbaz baig said:


> Ooh you even dont know what Green color means, it`s mean full full national Jurisdction and soverignty feel free to read.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters#International_waters_agreements
> You need permission from Pakistan to your every sea activity in pakistan sovereign waters.
> btw neither i meant by water sovereign territory nor legally stop indian ships (pakistan has full right to stop any activity in pakistan sovereign waters), but it`s true you need Pakistan Permission even with this international sea route, and there you go, India concern if india join Pakistan by Ground so it`s possible that pakistan can block indian Oil trade if there will be any war like situation, Lolz we can also block your Oil trade through sea route until you dont pay tax by using our sovereign territory either by ground or sea. hope you have understood now



And what did you understand with *restrictions on national jurisdiction and sovereignty ?*
Pakistan possess rights only on the natural resources of the area in question. No jurisdiction on navigation, they are equal to international waters.

Tax is just  and blocking oil routes is even more* 
*
Pakistan can only object to the pipeline that it can disturb the flora and fona of the region. But that too would be nearly next to impossible to prove with substiantial evidence and more over it will hamper Qatar economic intreast aswell. And you too know Pak Qatar relations very well.


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## ghauri05

maybe they are planning on an underwater rail..with last stop as Chahbhar....and it will also facilitate afghanistan...i think it's Doval thinking out of box again


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## my2cents

Itachi said:


> How is the produce going to be still fresh by the time it reaches Turkey?
> 
> Also, grains, spices, garments, rice, leather goods, steel & cement are highly industrialized in Pakistan too while China leads in machinery & pharmaceuticals.
> 
> *Plus,* anything that leaves India will be heavily taxed by both China & Pakistan (to increase the cost of each commodity so that it can't compete against theirs). Afterwards, the above commodities being shipped around will have to pay the shipment price too (again, something that will increase the price). Then, the products will be competing against not only domestic but several other countries too (Turkey leads in chinaware/crockery among many other items, Iranian commodities, Chinese commodities, Pakistani commodities & so on and so forth).



We are already exporting these products ( $80 billion)to Europe and other countries in middle east by sea route. So your argument does not hold any water that we cannot compete with/without the transit. You have to understand that if you tax transit fees heavily then there is no meaning to provide the transit in the first place. Customs on goods are collected by the destination country.


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## Itachi

my2cents said:


> We are already exporting these products ( $80 billion)to Europe and other countries in middle east by sea route. So your argument does not hold any water that we cannot compete with/without the transit. You have to understand that if you tax transit fees heavily then their is no meaning to provide the transit in the first place. Customs on goods are collected by the destination country.



The strategy is to use mass-transit to lower the cost of domestic commodities. If India keeps using sea route, it'll be out of the game. If India uses the mass-transit route, it'll have to let go of it's hegemonic attitude & become a much more peaceful neighbor, like Japan is to China (or vice versa).


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## BABA AGHORI

Itachi said:


> How is the produce going to be still fresh by the time it reaches Turkey?
> 
> Also, grains, spices, garments, rice, leather goods, steel & cement are highly industrialized in Pakistan too while China leads in machinery & pharmaceuticals.
> 
> *Plus,* anything that leaves India will be heavily taxed by both China & Pakistan (to increase the cost of each commodity so that it can't compete against theirs). Afterwards, the above commodities being shipped around will have to pay the shipment price too (again, something that will increase the price). Then, the products will be competing against not only domestic but several other countries too (Turkey leads in chinaware/crockery among many other items, Iranian commodities, Chinese commodities, Pakistani commodities & so on and so forth).
> 
> 
> 
> I did, that's why I (and many other members before me) said that Pakistan won't allow India any route through it. That's why I was suggesting alternatives, silly.
> 
> 
> 
> Surely the cost will go down overtime. Plus, you have already mentioned that your produce cannot compete against China's. So end of story.
> 
> 
> 
> China first has to fulfill it's own cotton needs before exporting.  Plus, look below.
> 
> *Top Cotton Exports by Country*
> Below are the 15 countries that exported the highest dollar value worth of cotton during 2015:
> 
> 
> China: US$15.8 billion (29.1% of total cotton exports)
> India: $7.5 billion (13.8%)
> United States: $5.9 billion (10.8%)
> Pakistan: $3.1 billion (5.7%)
> Hong Kong: $2.3 billion (4.3%)
> Vietnam: $1.8 billion (3.2%)
> Turkey: $1.7 billion (3.1%)
> Italy: $1.5 billion (2.7%)
> Brazil: $1.4 billion (2.7%)
> Germany: $998.9 million (1.8%)
> Uzbekistan: $835.4 million (1.5%)
> Australia: $820.6 million (1.5%)
> Indonesia: $731.6 million (1.3%)
> Spain: $652 million (1.2%)
> South Korea: $644.8 million (1.2%)
> Despite being 4x the size of Pakistan India's cotton exports are only 2.5x higher than Pakistan's. On top of that, arable land (the is used for crops) is 47.87% of India's total land available. Pakistan's arable land is at 26.02%.
> 
> That leads to 1,423,267.5 sq km of arable land for India while for Pakistan, it's 200,581.6 sq km. So, India's arable land is 7x bigger than Pakistan's.
> 
> So, let's end our Pakistan Vs. India discussion. Let's keep it to India, shall we?
> 
> Also, when Chabahar is complete, then we can talk.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, your diverting from the topic & bringing in CPEC. Keep it to India & it's exports. Also, the plant being made in Iran, you think it won't be taxed? How will the fertilizer be moved back to India? Through sea? Possibly through Pakistani territorial waters (more taxes, higher costs if they avoid Pakistani waters; higher cost either way).
> 
> You get the point, hopefully.


How is the produce going to be still fresh by the time it reaches Turkey?

Also, grains, spices, garments, rice, leather goods, steel & cement are highly industrialized in Pakistan too while China leads in machinery & pharmaceuticals.

*Plus,* anything that leaves India will be heavily taxed by both China & Pakistan (to increase the cost of each commodity so that it can't compete against theirs). Afterwards, the above commodities being shipped around will have to pay the shipment price too (again, something that will increase the price). Then, the products will be competing against not only domestic but several other countries too (Turkey leads in chinaware/crockery among many other items, Iranian commodities, Chinese commodities, Pakistani commodities & so on and so forth).

I think you are living in a paradise ---- India do not need a over land route from Pakistan so no royalty to you. And why would china tax Indian products which will never pass through Chinese soverigen territory. Do Pakistan give a right to China to tax on it's region and do you know what it means ? And Paksitan cannot do anything on navigation on it's EEZ please read a bit more on it. Transporting through sea is 12 times less expensive than transporting through land. Baniya knows well how to compete in the market so thanks a lot on the advice.

I did, that's why I (and many other members before me) said that Pakistan won't allow India any route through it. That's why I was suggesting alternatives, silly. 



Surely the cost will go down overtime. Plus, you have already mentioned that your produce cannot compete against China's. So end of story. 

Worring about competition with China not about your exports ? can I know the reason ?

China first has to fulfill it's own cotton needs before exporting.  Plus, look below.

*Top Cotton Exports by Country*
Below are the 15 countries that exported the highest dollar value worth of cotton during 2015:


China: US$15.8 billion (29.1% of total cotton exports)
India: $7.5 billion (13.8%)
United States: $5.9 billion (10.8%)
Pakistan: $3.1 billion (5.7%)
Hong Kong: $2.3 billion (4.3%)
Vietnam: $1.8 billion (3.2%)
Turkey: $1.7 billion (3.1%)
Italy: $1.5 billion (2.7%)
Brazil: $1.4 billion (2.7%)
Germany: $998.9 million (1.8%)
Uzbekistan: $835.4 million (1.5%)
Australia: $820.6 million (1.5%)
Indonesia: $731.6 million (1.3%)
Spain: $652 million (1.2%)
South Korea: $644.8 million (1.2%)
Despite being 4x the size of Pakistan India's cotton exports are only 2.5x higher than Pakistan's. On top of that, arable land (the is used for crops) is 47.87% of India's total land available. Pakistan's arable land is at 26.02%.

That leads to 1,423,267.5 sq km of arable land for India while for Pakistan, it's 200,581.6 sq km. So, India's arable land is 7x bigger than Pakistan's. 

So, let's end our Pakistan Vs. India discussion. Let's keep it to India, shall we? 

Also, when Chabahar is complete, then we can talk.

Ahh lets keep it to India and Pakistan after the complete lecture above how India has to compete with China .. very well said...
Biggest business for Paksitan has been textile for over many decades. It is the biggest employment sector too for you guy. Textile and cotton is not India's major line of business therefore we have much better things to do and our exports are far more diversed... China do buy alot of Cotton bails from India and Paksitan. And when CPEC is ready we know how it gonna help Pakistani textile industry as a whole. Selling Power at 15pkr per unit to you and supplying power to its industry at 3-4pkr. 



Again, your diverting from the topic & bringing in CPEC. Keep it to India & it's exports. Also, the plant being made in Iran, you think it won't be taxed? How will the fertilizer be moved back to India? Through sea? Possibly through Pakistani territorial waters (more taxes, higher costs if they avoid Pakistani waters; higher cost either way).

Probably you would have understood from my explaination in above paragraph. But let me repeat it again. Coz we are getting gas at very affordable price in Iran. Rather than converting natural gas to LNG and transporting to India and then making fertilizer, It is far more economical to make fertilizer in Iran and then ship to India. No it won't be taxed heavily in Iran as it is a complete export unit and every country gives tax rebate on export units. Baniya calculates it better. Pakistani territorial waters is just 12 nautical miles. And we do not need to cross through it. And no one is giving you tax on EEZ navigation Time to smell coffee...


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## shahbaz baig

BABA AGHORI said:


> And what did you understand with *restrictions on national jurisdiction and sovereignty ?*
> Pakistan possess rights only on the natural resources of the area in question. No jurisdiction on navigation, they are equal to international waters.
> 
> Tax is just  and blocking oil routes is even more*
> *
> Pakistan can only object to the pipeline that it can disturb the flora and fona of the region. But that too would be nearly next to impossible to prove with substiantial evidence and more over it will hamper Qatar economic intreast aswell. And you too know Pak Qatar relations very well.



i knew it that i will find another delusional Indian who will not provide any source as evidence but only argue like other indians.
well once you would have built these projects, we will play our role infect we are playing our role. we really want your money in chabahar port, Pipe Lines . good luck


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## BABA AGHORI

shahbaz baig said:


> i knew it that i will find another delusional Indian who will not provide any source as evidence but only argue like other indians.
> well once you would have built these projects, we will play our role infect we are playing our role. we really want your money in chabahar port, Pipe Lines . good luck


Your wikipedia source backfired you, there is nothing that supported your claim... my dear friend. The game has already started. And while going through the Pakistani talk shows on youtube It is clrearly visible the heat is rising. Good luck mate.


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## shahbaz baig

BABA AGHORI said:


> Your wikipedia source *backfired* you, there is nothing that supported your claim... my dear friend. The game has already started. And while going through the Pakistani talk shows on youtube It is clrearly visible the heat is rising. Good luck mate.


ooh that`s means that you think Pakistan water sovereignty is disputed like china south sea or other international sea disputed territory. so keep in delusion we never mind.


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## BABA AGHORI

shahbaz baig said:


> ooh that`s means that you think Pakistan water sovereignty is disputed like china south sea or other international sea disputed territory. so keep in delusion we never mind.


It is not disputed, you are ill-informed. that's all.
http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part5.htm
Article 58 is for pipelines, submarines and navigation for other states in EEZ of costal state.
Hope it helps.
_
Article58

Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone
_

1. In the exclusive economic zone, all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.

2. Articles 88 to 115 and other pertinent rules of international law apply to the exclusive economic zone in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.








And the refrence Article 87

_
Freedom of the high seas
_
1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, _inter alia_, both for coastal and land-locked States:

(a) freedom of navigation;

(b) freedom of overflight;

(c) freedom to lay submarine cables and pipelines, subject to Part VI;

(d) freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations permitted under international law, subject to Part VI;

(e) freedom of fishing, subject to the conditions laid down in section 2;

(f) freedom of scientific research, subject to Parts VI and XIII.


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## shahbaz baig

BABA AGHORI said:


> It is not disputed, you are ill-informed. that's all.
> http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part5.htm
> Article 58 is for pipelines, submarines and navigation for other states in EEZ of costal state.
> Hope it helps.
> _
> Article58
> 
> Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone
> _
> 
> 1. In the exclusive economic zone, all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.
> 
> 2. Articles 88 to 115 and other pertinent rules of international law apply to the exclusive economic zone in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.
> 
> 3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the refrence Article 87
> 
> _
> Freedom of the high seas
> _
> 1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, _inter alia_, both for coastal and land-locked States:
> 
> (a) freedom of navigation;
> 
> (b) freedom of overflight;
> 
> (c) freedom to lay submarine cables and pipelines, subject to Part VI;
> 
> (d) freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations permitted under international law, subject to Part VI;
> 
> (e) freedom of fishing, subject to the conditions laid down in section 2;
> 
> (f) freedom of scientific research, subject to Parts VI and XIII.



but india want to isolate pakistan, india want to impose the label as terrorist sponsoring country for pakistan, so do you really think that pakistan will ever follow these conventions if that will happen ? no
Btw
They're freer than countries' territorial *waters* in the sense that no country can claim sovereignty over them, according to the United Nations Convention on the *Law* of the Sea (UNCLOS), *but that doesn't mean that countries can't apply their laws or jurisdiction to events, activity or people.

admiralty-and-maritime-shipping-laws-in-pakistan

Pakistan
has own Maritime shipping or any sea activity laws. and every one need to take permission before entering in Pakistan water jurisdiction.*


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## BABA AGHORI

shahbaz baig said:


> but india want to isolate pakistan, india want to impose the label as terrorist sponsoring country for pakistan, so do you really think that pakistan will ever follow these conventions if that will happen ? no
> Btw
> They're freer than countries' territorial *waters* in the sense that no country can claim sovereignty over them, according to the United Nations Convention on the *Law* of the Sea (UNCLOS), *but that doesn't mean that countries can't apply their laws or jurisdiction to events, activity or people.
> 
> admiralty-and-maritime-shipping-laws-in-pakistan
> 
> Pakistan
> has own Maritime shipping or any sea activity laws. and every one need to take permission before interning in Pakistan water jurisdiction.*


It means the same. You cannot do that in EEZ. Pakistan jurisdiction only apply if India wants to drill for oil or minerals or fish. That is what ment by *restricted jurisdiction and sovereignty*.
What you are talking about,those rights are only limited until 12 nautical miles.

bottom line is India doesnot need any sort of permissions from pakistan to navigate through the region neither for laying down the pipeline.


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## shahbaz baig

BABA AGHORI said:


> It means the same. You cannot do that in EEZ. Pakistan jurisdiction only apply if India want to drill for oil or minerals or fish. That is what means by *restricted jurisdiction and sovereignty*.What you are talking about,those rights are only limited until 12 nautical miles.


No i meant Pakistan and every country have right to impose more laws or jurisdiction within sea territory in their waters, despite this international water route. you cant enter with your submarine or with private/naval shipping in pakistan water territory. even cant lay the oil or gas pipe line in Pakistan territory without Pakistan permission.

that is why india is planning to build Gas pipe line via iran to Oman and then india by passing pakistan.

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## BABA AGHORI

shahbaz baig said:


> No i meant Pakistan and every country have right to impose more laws or jurisdiction within sea territory in their despite this international water route. you cant enter with your submarine or with private shipping in pakistan water territory. even cant lay the oil or gas pipe line in Pakistan territory without Pakistan permission.
> 
> that is why india is planning to build Gas pipe line via iran to Oman and then india.


You are absolutly right, with the gas pipleine via Iran to Oman and then India, India will be having access to gas from Arabian Peninsula aswell as IRAN and possibly CAR in future also avoiding getting close to 12 nautical miles of pak waters. Smart right ? 

It is not Pakistani waters, it is international waters and all costal and landlock states enjoy all the rights , Pakistan just enjoy special rights to exploite it's resources.
Pakistan agreed to consitution of UN to get these rights. UN or no other country agreed to the consitution of Pakistan. Therefore it is the other way round.


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## shahbaz baig

BABA AGHORI said:


> It is not Pakistani waters, it is international waters and all costal and landlock states enjoy all the rights , Pakistan just enjoy rights to exploite it's resources.
> Pakistan agreed to consitution of UN to get these rights. UN or no other country agreed to the consitution of Pakistan. Therefore it is the other way round.


now what i can say if you are not willing to accept. even UN cant do anything about constitution of pakistan. every one need pakistan permission if anyone want to use pakistan water territory. either you accept it or not, pakistan is the bitter truth for you in order to expand your influence in the region with easy access or else your products will more expansive. batter to work with Pakistan as china is doing. really we dont want to negotiate about kashmir in this regards this is purely economically viable for both countries especially for india compare to pakistan and for whole region too, but your Modi ego with Pakistan will drown only india in this region. it is really Good for Pakistan and india to work together rather then creating propaganda, conspiracy. US and other also have interest with pakistan, so Modi dreams to isolate Pakistan is not going to happen ever. it`s batter for India to join now before it`s too late.

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## BABA AGHORI

shahbaz baig said:


> now what i can say if you are not willing to accept. even UN cant do anything about constitution of pakistan. every one need pakistan permission if anyone want to use pakistan water territory. either you accept it or not, pakistan is the bitter truth for you in order to expand your influence in the region with easy access or else you product will more expansive. batter to work with Pakistan as china is doing. really we dont want to negotiate about kashmir in this regards this is purely economically viable for both countries especially for india compare to pakistan and for whole region too, but your Modi ego with Pakistan will drown only india in this region. it is really Good for Pakistan and india to work together rather then creating propaganda, conspiracy. US and other also have interest with pakistan, so Modi dreams to isolate Pakistan is not going to happen ever. it`s batter for India to join now before it`s too late.


The area you are talking about is not under terrotorial waters of Pakistan . So infact Paksitan can not do anything.
Pakistan do want to blackmail India in every aspect to get Kashmir. MFN status, Pakistan promissed and never gave. Access to Afg. Pakistan refused. Now India is happy to create it's alternative to avoid blackmailing.
Pakistan has to fall in line before it's too late if it wants to talk and trade with India.
Doesn't matter to India if US, Russia,China, Mars and Pluto have intreasts in Pakistan. India will act according to it's national intreasts.

Rail link to Turkey and Iran bypassing Pakistan and NSTC will come to light very soon.

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## shahbaz baig

BABA AGHORI said:


> The area you are talking about is not under terrotorial waters of Pakistan . So infact Paksitan can not do anything.
> Pakistan do want to blackmail India is every aspect to get Kashmir. MFN status, Pakistan promissed and never gave. Access to Afg. Pakistan refused. Now India is happy to create it's alternative to avoid blackmailing.
> Pakistan has to fall in line before it's too late if it wants to talk and trade with India.
> Doesn't matter to India if US, Russia,China, Mars and Pluto have intreasts in Pakistan. India will act according to it's national intreasts.
> 
> Rail link to Turkey and Iran bypassing Pakistan and NSTC will come to light very soon.


ok best of luck

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## my2cents

shahbaz baig said:


> now what i can say if you are not willing to accept. even UN cant do anything about constitution of pakistan. every one need pakistan permission if anyone want to use *pakistan water territory.* either you accept it or not, pakistan is the bitter truth for you in order to expand your influence in the region with easy access or else your products will more expansive. batter to work with Pakistan as china is doing. really we dont want to negotiate about kashmir in this regards this is purely economically viable for both countries especially for india compare to pakistan and for whole region too, but your Modi ego with Pakistan will drown only india in this region. it is really Good for Pakistan and india to work together rather then creating propaganda, conspiracy. US and other also have interest with pakistan, so Modi dreams to isolate Pakistan is not going to happen ever. it`s batter for India to join now before it`s too late.



Define Pakistan water territory?? You are not claiming entire Indian ocean, are you??


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## shahbaz baig

my2cents said:


> Define Pakistan water territory?? You are not claiming entire Indian ocean, are you??


i already defined what i mean, read my all previous post in this thread. who am i to claim entire Indian Ocean ?

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## Fledgingwings

Just One Question Mr Rising Sun Man Sir.how ? liking digging under china and or afghanistan?? Nothing personel but This is serious IRONY


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## Itachi

Fledgingwings said:


> Just One Question Mr Rising Sun Man Sir.how ? liking digging under china and or afghanistan?? Nothing personel but This is serious IRONY



It is right? 

This dude @BABA AGHORI is suggesting a *gas pipeline* from Iran to Oman _*and then*_ to India. 

How much will the gas cost by the time it reaches India?  $1000 per barrel (or whatever system they use for gas prices).

Before the implementation of this *theoretical* project, they have to tunnel through the Persian Gulf (Iran to Oman) and then straight to India. How much is that going to cost? I suppose more than $50 Billion.

Then the maintenance cost and dare I say if it breaks up (in more than one case). How are they going to fix it? *When* are they going to fix it? After millions if not billions of gas is lost?

Stop your wet dreams and quit PDF @BABA AGHORI no one's going to propose such a pipeline plus the Chabahar port is what India is using to blackmail/corrupt/sideline CPEC, the day it is *official*, you can come back with your thousand dollar (thousand millions in your case ) ideas.

*

Just to give you the scale of your billion(s) dollar pipeline project:-
*





Plus, the Indians (or whichever nationality of engineers work on this) will have to drill *around* the Pakistani EEZ & extended EEZ. (adding hundreds of more kilometers along the way) 

So, the pipeline will be ±1000 km. Now that's a long distance my friend @BABA AGHORI 

And then there's the risk of sabotage or the natural degradation of the pipelines over time (or natural explosions/maintenance problems) 





Good Luck with that 

I seriously hope your PM looks into this & wastes billions and billions of dollars.


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## BABA AGHORI

Itachi said:


> It is right?
> 
> This dude @BABA AGHORI is suggesting a *gas pipeline* from Iran to Oman _*and then*_ to India.
> 
> How much will the gas cost by the time it reaches India?  $1000 per barrel (or whatever system they use for gas prices).
> 
> Before the implementation of this *theoretical* project, they have to tunnel through the Persian Gulf (Iran to Oman) and then straight to India. How much is that going to cost? I suppose more than $50 Billion.
> 
> Then the maintenance cost and dare I say if it breaks up (in more than one case). How are they going to fix it? *When* are they going to fix it? After millions if not billions of gas is lost?
> 
> Stop your wet dreams and quit PDF @BABA AGHORI no one's going to propose such a pipeline plus the Chabahar port is what India is using to blackmail/corrupt/sideline CPEC, the day it is *official*, you can come back with your thousand dollar (thousand millions in your case ) ideas.
> 
> *
> 
> Just to give you the scale of your billion(s) dollar pipeline project:-
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus, the Indians (or whichever nationality of engineers work on this) will have to drill *around* the Pakistani EEZ & extended EEZ. (adding hundreds of more kilometers along the way)
> 
> So, the pipeline will be ±1000 km. Now that's a long distance my friend @BABA AGHORI
> 
> And then there's the risk of sabotage or the natural degradation of the pipelines over time (or natural explosions/maintenance problems)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good Luck with that
> 
> I seriously hope your PM looks into this & wastes billions and billions of dollars.


First of all gas is measured in cubic feet not in barrels, so we can understand level of intellect you hve. Secondly India do not need to go around your EEZ, read the UN rules over EEZ tht I hve posted. Thirdly india would be importing over a trillion cubic feet of gas in next decade, if you calculate, I am sure you won't be able too, the cost of liquidfiction of natural gas plus transport cost, pipeline would be very economical. The same reason why China wants to lay down a pipeline from Gawadar to Chinese west coast rather than relying on pak truck drivers. My friend banya knows business very well.


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## Itachi

Does "banya" (what does that term even mean lol) know that another country can't mine under another countries EEZ or extended EEZ? (if Pakistan wishes for India *not *to mine/tunnel under its land)


*Article 60*

_*Artificial islands, installations and structures in the exclusive economic zone*_

1. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have the exclusive right to construct and to authorize and regulate the construction, operation and use of:

(a) artificial islands;

(b) installations and structures for the purposes provided for in article 56 and other economic purposes;

(c) installations and structures which may interfere with the exercise of the rights of the coastal State in the zone.

2. The coastal State shall have exclusive jurisdiction over such artificial islands, installations and structures, including jurisdiction with regard to customs, fiscal, health, safety and immigration laws and regulations.

3. Due notice must be given of the construction of such artificial islands, installations or structures, and permanent means for giving warning of their presence must be maintained. Any installations or structures which are abandoned or disused shall be removed to ensure safety of navigation, taking into account any generally accepted international standards established in this regard by the competent international organization. Such removal shall also have due regard to fishing, the protection of the marine environment and the rights and duties of other States. Appropriate publicity shall be given to the depth, position and dimensions of any installations or structures not entirely removed.

4. The coastal State may, where necessary, establish reasonable safety zones around such artificial islands, installations and structures in which it may take appropriate measures to ensure the safety both of navigation and of the artificial islands, installations and structures.

So "banya", if Pakistan wishes to, it can simply block India's moves, sabotage the pipeline through proxies (like your doing to/in CPEC; making you taste your own atrocities ). Get it? 



BABA AGHORI said:


> The same reason why China wants to lay down a pipeline from Gawadar to *Chinese west coast* rather than relying on pak truck drivers.



Wtf is the Chinese _*West Coast*_? Did you just invent that term out of the thin air? 

Last time I checked, China only had the east coast. 






Plus, how do you know if China is going to pay the Pakistani truck drivers or not? Are you the senior management of CPEC. 

When you can fully quote my whole response to your half researched, half bs posts, then respond. Please don't cherry pick over my post(s). 

_Baniya, if you know business so well, instruct your PM too . May you help him waste billions upon billions. _


Keep living the wet dream.

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## Hindustani78

Indian Railways.

Most of IR's freight revenue now comes from such block rakes carrying bulk goods such as coal or cement. A typical load (_full rake_) consists of 40 BCN wagons (2200t). Sometimes half loads (_mini-rake_) of 20 BCN wagons (1100t) are also available for contracts


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## SBUS-CXK

My point is different.
This is the beginning of India's global strategy? Indians are now aware of it?


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## BABA AGHORI

Itachi said:


> Does "banya" (what does that term even mean lol) know that another country can't mine under another countries EEZ or extended EEZ? (if Pakistan wishes for India *not *to mine/tunnel under its land)
> 
> 
> *Article 60*
> 
> _*Artificial islands, installations and structures in the exclusive economic zone*_
> 
> 1. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have the exclusive right to construct and to authorize and regulate the construction, operation and use of:
> 
> (a) artificial islands;
> 
> (b) installations and structures for the purposes provided for in article 56 and other economic purposes;
> 
> (c) installations and structures which may interfere with the exercise of the rights of the coastal State in the zone.
> 
> 2. The coastal State shall have exclusive jurisdiction over such artificial islands, installations and structures, including jurisdiction with regard to customs, fiscal, health, safety and immigration laws and regulations.
> 
> 3. Due notice must be given of the construction of such artificial islands, installations or structures, and permanent means for giving warning of their presence must be maintained. Any installations or structures which are abandoned or disused shall be removed to ensure safety of navigation, taking into account any generally accepted international standards established in this regard by the competent international organization. Such removal shall also have due regard to fishing, the protection of the marine environment and the rights and duties of other States. Appropriate publicity shall be given to the depth, position and dimensions of any installations or structures not entirely removed.
> 
> 4. The coastal State may, where necessary, establish reasonable safety zones around such artificial islands, installations and structures in which it may take appropriate measures to ensure the safety both of navigation and of the artificial islands, installations and structures.
> 
> So "banya", if Pakistan wishes to, it can simply block India's moves, sabotage the pipeline through proxies (like your doing to/in CPEC; making you taste your own atrocities ). Get it?
> 
> 
> 
> Wtf is the Chinese _*West Coast*_? Did you just invent that term out of the thin air?
> 
> Last time I checked, China only had the east coast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus, how do you know if China is going to pay the Pakistani truck drivers or not? Are you the senior management of CPEC.
> 
> When you can fully quote my whole response to your half researched, half bs posts, then respond. Please don't cherry pick over my post(s).
> 
> _Baniya, if you know business so well, instruct your PM too . May you help him waste billions upon billions. _
> 
> 
> Keep living the wet dream.


Sir, Baniya is a very cool word for a person who knows business... and we know what phobic meaning you were taught and we are glad you are taught that way... so we are baniya kaum... live with it...

For your kind information when you lay a undersea pipeline you do not dig a trench and lay it .. it is layed on sea bed...therefore mining law does not apply it is clearly written in Article 57...


Sharing a law for artificial island for underwater pipeline is something like going to a gun shop and showing him your DL and buying a gun... Though probably that might work in your country but not internationally.

There is a very thin line between sounding smart and sounding stupid.

Using proxies for sabotage, the sea bed which is 4000 meter deep, deeper than milatery submarines to act, and you want your proxies to work there, that is absouluty cool.. I know April1st isn't far away.
There would be a very important pipeline planned over your land and proxies can work much more easier than underwater isn't it..

Now lets come to artificial island... China build some on coral reefs which were only at the dept of few meters.. and you are dreaming of creating an artificial island at the dept of 4000s of meter..

As per west coast it was my bad... it is western borders...
Hope you enjoy ur weekend...

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## Itachi

BABA AGHORI said:


> Sir, Baniya is a very cool word for a person who knows business... and we know what phobic meaning you were taught and we are glad you are taught that way... so we are baniya kaum... live with it...
> 
> For your kind information when you lay a undersea pipeline you do not dig a trench and lay it .. it is layed on sea bed...therefore mining law does not apply it is clearly written in Article 57...
> 
> 
> Sharing a law for artificial island for underwater pipeline is something like going to a gun shop and showing him your DL and buying a gun... Though probably that might work in your country but not internationally.
> 
> There is a very thin line between sounding smart and sounding stupid.
> 
> Using proxies for sabotage, the sea bed which is 4000 meter deep, deeper than milatery submarines to act, and you want your proxies to work there, that is absouluty cool.. I know April1st isn't far away.
> There would be a very important pipeline planned over your land and proxies can work much more easier than underwater isn't it..
> 
> Now lets come to artificial island... China build some on coral reefs which were only at the dept of few meters.. and you are dreaming of creating an artificial island at the dept of 4000s of meter..
> 
> As per west coast it was my bad... it is western borders...
> Hope you enjoy ur weekend...



Haha, I actually didn't even knew there was a word such as "baniya/banya" & here your *assuming* that I was raised knowing & having being taught the negative meaning of that word. 

You need to *de-propagandize* your mind dude. 

Onto the discussion & Article 60:-

1. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have the exclusive right to construct and to authorize and regulate the construction, operation and use of:

^since the pipeline will be moving through *our* EEZ/EEEZ as stated under the article 60, we have "the exclusive right...to authorize & regulate..." meaning that we can deny India's pipelines.

You know who created these laws? Why? For what reasons? Simple, these laws (like any other laws) can be manipulated & have been by the US (Iraq War, WoT, Afghan War) & so many other sovereign nations since their inception.

And it *clearly* says that we have the _exclusive rights_. You want to argue more? 

(a) artificial islands; (no one is building artificial islands silly, it's just what was quoted) 

(b) installations and structures for the purposes provided for in article 56 and other economic purposes;

Though we *can* build artificial islands, place radars on them + silo's for nukes, SAM's, etc. 

(c) installations and structures which may interfere with the exercise of the rights of the coastal State in the zone.

Now this is interesting. Pakistan can simply add to their case (against Indian pipelines) that these pipelines will damage Pakistani waters (many different reasons, like gas leaks, etc.) 


3. *Due notice must be given of the construction of such artificial islands, installations or structures, and permanent means for giving warning of their presence must be maintained.* Any installations or structures which are abandoned or disused shall be removed to ensure safety of navigation, taking into account any generally accepted international standards established in this regard by the _competent international organization._ Such removal shall also have due regard to* fishing, the protection of the marine environment* and the rights and duties of other States. Appropriate publicity shall be given to the depth, position and dimensions of any installations or structures not entirely removed.

Added to the case can be OIC (which a International Org.), which Pakistan can use *against* India (like it has in the past; _blocked_ India's initiation into OIC). We can again quote the above Article line & build up a case against the destruction of marine environment, etc.

Because *how* are you going to lay those pipelines on the sea bed without disrupting some fishes, their mating grounds & their food grounds? 

4. The coastal State may, where necessary, establish reasonable safety zones around such artificial islands, installations and structures in which it may take appropriate measures to ensure the safety both of navigation and of the artificial islands, installations and structures.

Such "safety zones" around "installation & structures" will definitely obstruct Indian pipelines (they will have to go around & not through, etc) *if *India gets the go ahead to actually build those pipelines. 

Plus, for sabotage, no matter how deep a target is, all you gotta do is find it's location (which will *have* to be publicized to the Coastal State under Article 60) and then dump some TNT/explosive on it from vessels as small as _fishing boats_.

I'm sure planners will be *much more* creative. 

Plus, these so called "pipelines" are 3-10 years into the future. And here you are, lecturing us on what will India do & what not. 

First make an official announcement as to *when* the project will start & then we will talk. 

Get that, baniya?


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## Tariq Jamshaid

T-123456 said:


> Not ''some business'' but alot of business.
> In 2013-14 your official trade with India was at $4.71 billion but the ''black market '' trade was at least double that.
> I dont think it is possible to stop the trade with India.


It's probably true and we have very corrupt regimes in Pakistan hopefully one day we will get rid of them and will have a government which will represent the sentiments of Pakistanis


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## 艹艹艹

*Will the Indian build a railway at sea?
It will be a great project.*


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## My-Analogous

RISING SUN said:


> India explores rail link with Iran, Turkey
> India is weighing the possibility of establishing a rail freight service which would connect the country to Iran and Turkey, New Delhi-based media say. The project is expected to bring about a major boost to trade and economic development of the Asia Pacific region, also involving Bangladesh, Bhutan, Nepal, Pakistan and Afghanistan.
> 
> The ambitious plan, covering about 6,000 kilometers, could significantly reduce currently high tariff and non-tariff costs in trade between these countries. For the start, Indian Railways will organize a meeting of South Asian railway heads involved in the project on March 15-16, India’s leading business website the Hindu Business Line reported.
> 
> The UN Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific (ESCAP) has been promoting the project for years through holding various conferences and carrying out feasibility studies on rail network between the countries. ESCAP has identified Dhaka-Kolkata-Delhi-Amritsar-Lahore-Islamabad-Zahedan-Tehran-Istanbul as the possible rail route, according to a senior Indian Railway Ministry official. The route has the strategic advantage of connecting the capitals of these countries.
> 
> According to the report, a demonstration container train between Bangladesh and India has been planned in the first quarter of 2017—18. The project is apparently part of the International North-South Transport Corridor (NSTC) formalized among India, Iran and Russia in 2000 to link the Subcontinent and the Middle East to the Caucasus, Central Asia and Europe. The ship, road and rail route would connect India’s Mumbai to the Iranian port of Bandar Abbas and further to Moscow and St. Petersburg in Russia before stretching to northern Europe and Scandinavia.
> 
> Besides Iran, India and Russia, countries that are on board to integrate into the transit network include Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Turkey, Tajikistan, Oman, Syria and Bulgaria. Dry runs of the route were conducted in 2014, from Mumbai to Baku and Astrakhan via Bandar Abbas. According to Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif, the countries were discussing the “final details” of the project.
> 
> The NSTC opens a window for alignment with Silk Road Economic Belt pushed by China to establish new trade and transport links with Central Asia and Europe and provide a counterbalance to US “pivot” to Asia.
> http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2017/03/04/512921/Iran-India-Turkey-rail-service-corridor-Silk-Road
> I am not getting any related news thread in similar thread option, though I had seen something recently. If yes then to the mods, please merge the threads.



India should start working to build this




Teleport gateway and it will sort all Indian issues from Mumbai to Kabul, Moscow, Tehran etc etc




Another design if you guys like


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## BABA AGHORI

Itachi said:


> Haha, I actually didn't even knew there was a word such as "baniya/banya" & here your *assuming* that I was raised knowing & having being taught the negative meaning of that word.
> 
> You need to *de-propagandize* your mind dude.
> 
> Onto the discussion & Article 60:-
> 
> 1. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have the exclusive right to construct and to authorize and regulate the construction, operation and use of:
> 
> ^since the pipeline will be moving through *our* EEZ/EEEZ as stated under the article 60, we have "the exclusive right...to authorize & regulate..." meaning that we can deny India's pipelines.
> 
> You know who created these laws? Why? For what reasons? Simple, these laws (like any other laws) can be manipulated & have been by the US (Iraq War, WoT, Afghan War) & so many other sovereign nations since their inception.
> 
> And it *clearly* says that we have the _exclusive rights_. You want to argue more?
> 
> (a) artificial islands; (no one is building artificial islands silly, it's just what was quoted)
> 
> (b) installations and structures for the purposes provided for in article 56 and other economic purposes;
> 
> Though we *can* build artificial islands, place radars on them + silo's for nukes, SAM's, etc.
> 
> (c) installations and structures which may interfere with the exercise of the rights of the coastal State in the zone.
> 
> Now this is interesting. Pakistan can simply add to their case (against Indian pipelines) that these pipelines will damage Pakistani waters (many different reasons, like gas leaks, etc.)
> 
> 
> 3. *Due notice must be given of the construction of such artificial islands, installations or structures, and permanent means for giving warning of their presence must be maintained.* Any installations or structures which are abandoned or disused shall be removed to ensure safety of navigation, taking into account any generally accepted international standards established in this regard by the _competent international organization._ Such removal shall also have due regard to* fishing, the protection of the marine environment* and the rights and duties of other States. Appropriate publicity shall be given to the depth, position and dimensions of any installations or structures not entirely removed.
> 
> Added to the case can be OIC (which a International Org.), which Pakistan can use *against* India (like it has in the past; _blocked_ India's initiation into OIC). We can again quote the above Article line & build up a case against the destruction of marine environment, etc.
> 
> Because *how* are you going to lay those pipelines on the sea bed without disrupting some fishes, their mating grounds & their food grounds?
> 
> 4. The coastal State may, where necessary, establish reasonable safety zones around such artificial islands, installations and structures in which it may take appropriate measures to ensure the safety both of navigation and of the artificial islands, installations and structures.
> 
> Such "safety zones" around "installation & structures" will definitely obstruct Indian pipelines (they will have to go around & not through, etc) *if *India gets the go ahead to actually build those pipelines.
> 
> Plus, for sabotage, no matter how deep a target is, all you gotta do is find it's location (which will *have* to be publicized to the Coastal State under Article 60) and then dump some TNT/explosive on it from vessels as small as _fishing boats_.
> 
> I'm sure planners will be *much more* creative.
> 
> Plus, these so called "pipelines" are 3-10 years into the future. And here you are, lecturing us on what will India do & what not.
> 
> First make an official announcement as to *when* the project will start & then we will talk.
> 
> Get that, baniya?


Again the same old problem of english compreshension, Installation and structures for artificial island and laying a pipeline are two different things,.... Yes Pakistan can object that it can hamper its flora and fona,, but has to defend it internationally how a pipleline overland going complete northsouth will not hamper flora and fona of the region and 4000 meter deep undersea pipleline can.  So it will be a very tough nut to crack.

Sorry i underestimated the sabotage and destruction ability that you have and known and acknolwledged internationally. Sir do you have any idea what would be more easier to sabotage.. a pipeline just 1 meter above the land or 4000 m deep undersea pipeline in high seas.

I will not be able to argue more on international law with you.. coz it is similar to 

Take care and have a nice day ahead.


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## Itachi

BABA AGHORI said:


> Again the same old problem of english compreshension, Installation and structures for artificial island and laying a pipeline are two different things,.... Yes Pakistan can object that it can hamper its flora and fona,, but has to defend it internationally how a pipleline overland going complete northsouth will not hamper flora and fona of the region and 4000 meter deep undersea pipleline can.  So it will be a very tough nut to crack.
> 
> Sorry i underestimated the sabotage and destruction ability that you have and known and acknolwledged internationally. Sir do you have any idea what would be more easier to sabotage.. a pipeline just 1 meter above the land or 4000 m deep undersea pipeline in high seas.
> 
> I will not be able to argue more on international law with you.. coz it is similar to
> 
> Take care and have a nice day ahead.



No, they are not. The word "Pipeline" (under or above ground; doesn't matter) *can* come under the _terms_ *installation *_& _*structures*. 

_Let's look at the basic definition of the above 2 words._ 

Installation:- 

1: the act of putting something in place for use : the state of being put in place for use
2: something put in place for use

Your going to tell me that the word "pipeline" doesn't match the 2 definitions above? 

Structures:-

a : something (as a building) that is constructed
b : something arranged in a definite pattern of organization, a rigid totalitarian _structure_ — J. L. Hess
c : organization of parts as dominated by the general character of the whole; economic _structure,_ personality _structure_
d : the aggregate of elements of an entity in their relationships to each other

_Again_, the term "pipeline" can be used in this context too. 

Plus, we're not talking about land regions but the sea & it's marine life/fauna, let's stick to the discussion at hand & not go into tangents. 

Obviously it's not "easy" to destroy a pipeline whether it's on/underground or 4000 meters deep in the sea. But it's easier to destroy (very possible with simple tools) than building/rebuilding it. 

I'm just giving you a taste of the very tactics your own country (India) uses & has used on international scales (in the UN & everywhere else) & in proxies too. 

Truth sounds bitter (especially when it comes back to haunt you), doesn't it? 


Cheers,


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## -blitzkrieg-

BABA AGHORI said:


> Yes Pakistan can object that it can hamper its flora and fona,, but has to defend it internationally how a pipleline overland going complete northsouth will not hamper flora and fona of the region and 4000 meter deep undersea pipleline can.  So it will be a very tough nut to crack.
> 
> 
> Take care and have a nice day ahead.



https://watershedsentinel.ca/articles/impact-of-natural-gas-in-the-marine-environment/


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## BABA AGHORI

-blitzkrieg- said:


> https://watershedsentinel.ca/articles/impact-of-natural-gas-in-the-marine-environment/


I know it, But Pakistan need to defend it in international court of law, how overland pipeline gas+ oil(which it approved for China) is safe than undersea pipeline( indian pipeline) that is 4000 meter deep. Not easy task to do... Good luck over it.


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## -blitzkrieg-

BABA AGHORI said:


> ourt of law, how overland pipeline gas+ oil(which it approved for China) is safe than undersea pipeline( indian pipeline



you are just arguing for the sake of an argument. a pipeline over land is not affecting livestock being raised miles away from it. A deep sea pipeline affects marine life and the prime purpose of an EEZ is to to give control of its undersea resources to its owner which in this case is Pakistan.You need a pipeline you can bypass it off our EEZ. if you grow enough balls to make any preemptive measure our navy will take care of it, if you feel you have some sort of right to use our space you are mistaken and bound to lose billions of investment just like that road you built up to chahbahar(which will be used to connect cpec with rest of Iran and Europe).


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