# PAF, The Unsung Hereos of Arab-Israel Wars



## imadul

Do Arabs owe Pakistan a lot?? Why would UAE stab Pakistan in the back? An unforgivable crime.

Fast roll back to the 6 Day 1967 War:

"Within 72 hours, (Pakistan's) Saiful Azam became the only fighter-pilot in the world to hold the record of shooting down three confirmed kills of Israeli aircrafts in air-to-air combat, a record that still stands today".

"All told, Pakistani Air Force pilots, in addition to Saiful Azam serving in Jordan, Iraq, Egypt and Syria, in 1967 war, downed as many as 10 Israeli aircrafts without losing a single pilot or a single aircraft. Pakistan, moreover, provided the Arab states with numerous military advisors and pilots who also served in 1973 war with remarkable achievements. The Pakistani military also provided critical military restructuring and reevaluation especially to Jordan after the 1967 war".

"During the 1973 war, for example Flt. Lt. A. Sattar Alvi became the first Pakistani pilot, flying a Syrian aircraft to shoot down an Israeli Mirage in air combat. Similarly and on the Egyptian front, PAF pilot Flt. Lt. M. Hatif , flying an Egyptian MiG-21 shot down an Israeli F-4 phantom in an air combat. Pakistani Air Force did not lose a single pilot or aircraft in any of the wars.

_*"It is rather strange that the Pakistani contribution to Arab militaries is never mentioned in Arab culture let alone in official Arab histories of the war. Pakistan had a contingent of at least 16 pilots who served as volunteers in Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Iraq in1967 and 1973 wars".*_

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/08/01/229723.html

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## war&peace

We have to differentiate between the govt or royal families and the common Arab people..all of royalties in middle east whether it is the house of saud or UAE's shaikh or Qatari goons are thugs and low-lives who conspired against Muslims and Islam to become the beloved of west and thus got installed as the kings, maliks and shaikhs and even today causing trouble in the middle-east and dancing on the tunes of west..

But among the common people of Arab, we find really good hearted, simple and loving Muslims who are true Muslims and believe in Islamic brotherhood. They are not ungrateful. They are good people but they do not make any headlines on the media and what we see is the govt and their ugly stances, their covert support of Israel and terrorism. They abstain from helping Palestine...When was the last time any of the shaikhs and maliks spoke in favour of Palestinians or against Israel?
But the hearts of Arab people beat with Palestinians and other Muslims in distress.

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## YeBeWarned

An Arab acknowledging the Help from a Ajam 
No offense to Arabs here

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## Flynn Swagmire

Dont want to be offensive, but our Prophet and his true companions are gone. So, Arabs are as usual becoming Arabs...

Man you should observe their behaviour...

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## Straight Razor

Well i think both type of people are there. The ones that think that we are ajam and that they are in some way superior to us. And then there are the ones you do or had donated (by that i mean the public) in times of need such as floods in pakistan (although i blame our goverments inefficiencies and corruptness for such calamaties i.e floods). I am sharing my experience on the basis of my travel to ksa and qatar.
My last visit to ksa was a sad one when i went for umrah. There were teenagers literally sitting at the airport be it management or security. One of them started throwing passports of the passengers of the flight saying with anger india pakistan india pakistan. There were other similar incidents as well that im not narrating as it will make the post a long one. But it saddened me that people who are there on religious duty and a revenue to them are being treated this way.
I also think that people who are visiting there be it umrah or otherwise need proper guidance and the system definitely needs to improve.


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## The Accountant

Brother its not just Arab leaders ... What do you think how the Arabs or other countries are talking about our leadership ... Due to Panama case they must be calling whole Pakistani nations as thugs ....

Sadly we Muslims are lost ... unfortunate but true ...

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## niaz

I have worked in Kuwait & in the UAE and visited Bahrain, Qatar, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Oman, Yemen, Egypt & Saudi Arabia. I found people from UAE, Oman & Bahrain the friendliest with Kuwaitis & the Saudis most arrogant.

The Arab traditional preference was explained to me as under by one of the Kuwaitis who was my trainee way back in 1978. Don’t think the matters have changed a lot.

First the immediate family, that is brothers & sisters. Next the larger family (uncles, cousins) then the tribe. After that the nationals and finally the Arabs. Everyone else comes next.

No matter how much we call Arabs our brothers; we have to understand that there is an unofficial but definite classification of the citizens of different countries. In the Gulf countries, citizens of the GCC take precedence over all others. Americans & the European are generally treated with respect by all including the police & the airport officials. Next come the Arabs from outside the GCC. Indians, Pakistani, Bangladeshis, Phillipinos & Sri Lankans are all at the bottom of the ladder. In Kuwait & Dubai Indians get preference over Pakistanis.

Consideration of being a Muslim brother is probably more at the individual level than at the gov’t level. That is why you find so little furore over Indian treatment of the Kashmiris. 

The above is based on my personal experience and not necessarily applicable to all.

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## PaklovesTurkiye

Starlord said:


> An Arab acknowledging the Help from a Ajam
> No offense to Arabs here





imadul said:


> _*"It is rather strange that the Pakistani contribution to Arab militaries is never mentioned in Arab culture let alone in official Arab histories of the war. Pakistan had a contingent of at least 16 pilots who served as volunteers in Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Iraq in1967 and 1973 wars".*_



*Azam was honored and awarded medals in Iraq and Jordan for his heroics but despite his remarkable military achievements and services in the Arab world, he remains unknown to the Arab public and very little is written about him in Arabic.

https://defence.pk/threads/pakistani-pilot-saiful-azam.199606/*[/QUOTE]

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## imadul

Flt Lt Saiful Azam served in the AF's of 4 countries, Pak, Jordan, Iraq, and BD.
Same pedigree as the legendary MM Alam.

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## Lucky Breeze

imadul said:


> Why would UAE stab Pakistan in the back? An unforgivable crime.


We are just witnessing a " good cop, bad cop" situation. Bad cop is just a puppet. Real player is good cop who is in war. He is playing "banya" tactic* 1.Saam 2.Daam 3.Dand 4.Bhed. *
His game is on level 3 now.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

imadul said:


> Do Arabs owe Pakistan a lot?? Why would UAE stab Pakistan in the back? An unforgivable crime.
> 
> Fast roll back to the 6 Day 1967 War:
> 
> "Within 72 hours, (Pakistan's) Saiful Azam became the only fighter-pilot in the world to hold the record of shooting down three confirmed kills of Israeli aircrafts in air-to-air combat, a record that still stands today".
> 
> "All told, Pakistani Air Force pilots, in addition to Saiful Azam serving in Jordan, Iraq, Egypt and Syria, in 1967 war, downed as many as 10 Israeli aircrafts without losing a single pilot or a single aircraft. Pakistan, moreover, provided the Arab states with numerous military advisors and pilots who also served in 1973 war with remarkable achievements. The Pakistani military also provided critical military restructuring and reevaluation especially to Jordan after the 1967 war".
> 
> "During the 1973 war, for example Flt. Lt. A. Sattar Alvi became the first Pakistani pilot, flying a Syrian aircraft to shoot down an Israeli Mirage in air combat. Similarly and on the Egyptian front, PAF pilot Flt. Lt. M. Hatif , flying an Egyptian MiG-21 shot down an Israeli F-4 phantom in an air combat. Pakistani Air Force did not lose a single pilot or aircraft in any of the wars.
> 
> _*"It is rather strange that the Pakistani contribution to Arab militaries is never mentioned in Arab culture let alone in official Arab histories of the war. Pakistan had a contingent of at least 16 pilots who served as volunteers in Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Iraq in1967 and 1973 wars".*_
> 
> http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/08/01/229723.html






THIS IS SOMETHING US PAKISTANIS NEED TO STAY WELL CLEAR off from now on. It's got absolutely nothing to do with us. The Arab-Israeli conflict is JUST THAT. A conflict between Arabs and Israelis. Us Pakistanis are neither. We are not Arab nor are we Jews/ Israelis. Let them fight it out amongst themselves. It makes no difference to us whatsoever. Pakistan is on the cusp of something huge. We have fully "outgrown" the entire Muslim world and have flown the nest as far as they are concerned. Pakistan's economy is about to take off massively thanks to CPEC. It will ensure that we become a developed nation in a few decades. We can produce SLCMs and MIRVs. We have the potential to become a military superpower. That should be our ONLY focus. ABSOLUTELY nothing else matters. We have done FAR MORE for the Islamic world than ANY other Muslim nation ever and have got nothing but strife in return. We need to give up on them now. The other Muslim countries need to step up to the plate. We have done far too much for them the last 60 years.



PaklovesTurkiye said:


> *Azam was honored and awarded medals in Iraq and Jordan for his heroics but despite his remarkable military achievements and services in the Arab world, he remains unknown to the Arab public and very little is written about him in Arabic.
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/pakistani-pilot-saiful-azam.199606/*





Which is precisely why we should NEVER EVER get involved with them again.



niaz said:


> I have worked in Kuwait & in the UAE and visited Bahrain, Qatar, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Oman, Yemen, Egypt & Saudi Arabia. I found people from UAE, Oman & Bahrain the friendliest with Kuwaitis & the Saudis most arrogant.
> 
> The Arab traditional preference was explained to me as under by one of the Kuwaitis who was my trainee way back in 1978. Don’t think the matters have changed a lot.
> 
> First the immediate family, that is brothers & sisters. Next the larger family (uncles, cousins) then the tribe. After that the nationals and finally the Arabs. Everyone else comes next.
> 
> No matter how much we call Arabs our brothers; we have to understand that there is an unofficial but definite classification of the citizens of different countries. In the Gulf countries, citizens of the GCC take precedence over all others. Americans & the European are generally treated with respect by all including the police & the airport officials. Next come the Arabs from outside the GCC. Indians, Pakistani, Bangladeshis, Phillipinos & Sri Lankans are all at the bottom of the ladder. In Kuwait & Dubai Indians get preference over Pakistanis.
> 
> Consideration of being a Muslim brother is probably more at the individual level than at the gov’t level. That is why you find so little furore over Indian treatment of the Kashmiris.
> 
> The above is based on my personal experience and not necessarily applicable to all.





Which is why us Pakistanis need to avoid the Arab/Middle Eastern nations (except Turkey) as much as possible. We should do all we can to make Pakistan a developed nation so we don't have to go to those countries anymore and get treated badly. With CPEC AND other similar initiatives this will ultimately happen. The only 2 nations in the world that matter to Pakistan are China and Turkey. ALL other nations mean nothing to us whatsoever.

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## Raider 21

imadul said:


> Do Arabs owe Pakistan a lot?? Why would UAE stab Pakistan in the back? An unforgivable crime.
> 
> Fast roll back to the 6 Day 1967 War:
> 
> "Within 72 hours, (Pakistan's) Saiful Azam became the only fighter-pilot in the world to hold the record of shooting down three confirmed kills of Israeli aircrafts in air-to-air combat, a record that still stands today".
> 
> "All told, Pakistani Air Force pilots, in addition to Saiful Azam serving in Jordan, Iraq, Egypt and Syria, in 1967 war, downed as many as 10 Israeli aircrafts without losing a single pilot or a single aircraft. Pakistan, moreover, provided the Arab states with numerous military advisors and pilots who also served in 1973 war with remarkable achievements. The Pakistani military also provided critical military restructuring and reevaluation especially to Jordan after the 1967 war".
> 
> "During the 1973 war, for example Flt. Lt. A. Sattar Alvi became the first Pakistani pilot, flying a Syrian aircraft to shoot down an Israeli Mirage in air combat. Similarly and on the Egyptian front, PAF pilot Flt. Lt. M. Hatif , flying an Egyptian MiG-21 shot down an Israeli F-4 phantom in an air combat. Pakistani Air Force did not lose a single pilot or aircraft in any of the wars.
> 
> _*"It is rather strange that the Pakistani contribution to Arab militaries is never mentioned in Arab culture let alone in official Arab histories of the war. Pakistan had a contingent of at least 16 pilots who served as volunteers in Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Iraq in1967 and 1973 wars".*_
> 
> http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/08/01/229723.html



Big difference between Syria and UAE...they're not the same people. Regardless of that, Arab governments should be taken as allies and not as brothers. Pakistan military does a lot for them (Arab militaries) without getting the due respect from them.


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## Winchester

My only experience in an Arab country was transit in Dubai on my way back.
And the difference in the immigration officer's attitude towards a white European guy in front of me versus his attitude towards me as he saw my passport was very evident. 
You tend to pick these little things up when you are abroad, well at least I do. I would try to pick up initial expressions of people as I tell them I am a Pakistani. With white people its mostly curiosity or a question mark, if its a Turk I have always noticed a smile.

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## Kompromat

It will not happen again.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Actually before we even discuss Arabs not know about certain items , most Pakistanis also don't know much about any such incidents.

I will admit that I never heard about these claim till I visited here and heard about it

Also I have never seen a formal decleration about the incident in our prominent media

I think the world is changing and time is right to move towards a permenent 2 state resolution for Palestine/Israel and move on

No real gain to discuss something that may have happened 30-40 years ago
Such topics should be raised in OIC froum for general awareness


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## Asif Naeem

It make sad that force to think that we Pakistani was only considered rental. Our Govt. allow them to do that. Present us as they can rent our services. No honor. No garland. Even we did not get a single appreciation line.


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## Samlee

My Experience With Arabs Has Been Somewhat Different.I Have Stayed in Saudia and UAE Under Different Pretexts Both As A Child and As A Professional

Local Emiratis Are Really Nice Overall.As For Saudia Well The Middle and Lower Middle Class People Are Nice and Genuinely Consider Us Our Brothers.It Is The Upper Class Especially Those Bloody _Kafeels _That Are an Insufferably Arrogant Lot


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## imadul

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Actually before we even discuss Arabs do not know about certain items , most Pakistanis also don't know much about any such incidents.
> 
> I will admit that I never heard about these claim till I visited here and heard about it
> 
> Also I have never seen a formal decleration about the incident in our prominent media
> 
> I think the world is changing and time is right to move towards a permenent 2 state resolution for Palestine/Israel and move on
> 
> No real gain to discuss something that may have happened 30-40 years ago
> Such topics should be raised in OIC froum for general awareness


Pakistan and PAF themselves wont advertise for reasons, but this has been known to gen of 60's and 70's through what we call "seena gazette " in our parlance.


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## A2Z

Pakistan and PAF have always proved their metal against the enemies, whether it be arab israel wars or protection of our nuclear facilities against possible Indo-Israel attack we have always got Israel's number. 

Time has proved that our enemies may out number us or out gun us as well, but we are a living prove of the words of a Russian, "its impossible to defeat an enemy who when looks into the barrel of our gun sees paradise".


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