# Type 00X/003 (former Type 002) Aircraft Carrier News & Discussions



## ChineseTiger1986

According to POP3, the construction has been started, so China has simultaneously started the construction of both Type 001A and Type 002.

转帖POP3大师:三言两语说弹射器-海军版-超级大本营军事论坛-最具影响力军事论坛 -

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## Genesis

While I don't think going the steam route is a good use of time, but our guys did train on the Brazilian carrier. If they sold us that tech, then it is a time saving good way to do it.

However, I'm not sure about the Authenticity of this. But if it is true, it would catapult, pun intended, us into undisputed second most powerful navy in the world bar none.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Genesis said:


> While I don't think going the steam route is a good use of time, *but our guys did train on the Brazilian carrier. If they sold us that tech, then it is a time saving good way to do it.*
> 
> However, I'm not sure about the Authenticity of this. But if it is true, it would catapult, pun intended, us into undisputed second most powerful navy in the world bar none.



The rumor has been proved to be false.

And POP3 is one of the most reliable military insiders when it comes to the aircraft carrier and destroyer.

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## Genesis

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The rumor has been proved to be false.
> 
> And POP3 is one of the most reliable military insider when it comes to the aircraft carrier and destroyer.



cool, I guess full combat readiness by 2020 is a very realist target. 

I assume not nuclear? OR maybe it has to be nuclear to power it. We will see. Either way, good development. The one thing our navy lacks is carriers and within 10 years we get three. 

Now the ball is in J-15 and J-31's court. As well as on deck AEW, and other helicopter programs.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Genesis said:


> cool, I guess full combat readiness by 2020 is a very realist target.
> 
> I assume not nuclear? OR maybe it has to be nuclear to power it. We will see. Either way, good development. The one thing our navy lacks is carriers and within 10 years we get three.
> 
> Now the ball is in J-15 and J-31's court. As well as on deck AEW, and other helicopter programs.



Not nuclear for now, the 110000 tons nuclear supercarrier will start the construction after 2020.

The Type 001A is the further improvement of Liaoning, while the Type 002 is a modernized version of the Kitty Hawk class.

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## Sasquatch

Genesis said:


> While I don't think going the steam route is a good use of time, but our guys did train on the Brazilian carrier. If they sold us that tech, then it is a time saving good way to do it.
> .



First to carriers are going to be fitted with steam believe it, EMALS will be fitted on the Type 003. I was hoping they skip it as steam catapults are expensive.



Genesis said:


> However, I'm not sure about the Authenticity of this. But if it is true, it would catapult, pun intended, us into undisputed second most powerful navy in the world bar none



Your wrong on this. It's going to take 5-10 years before the PLAN can even match the Royal or French Navy forget about being the second best.

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## Akasa

Hu Songshan said:


> Your wrong on this. It's going to take 5-10 years before the PLAN can even match the Royal or French Navy forget about being the second best.



France's and UK's navies are not toe to toe with China's navy in numbers, projection, or firepower. The only threat besides the US' navy would be that of Japan. Others don't come near.

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## Kompromat

We need CGIs.

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## Genesis

Aeronaut said:


> We need CGIs.


Some imaginings, I'm thinking none will be it, but it's a carrier, it's close, at least with some of it.

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## Juice

Genesis said:


> While I don't think going the steam route is a good use of time, but our guys did train on the Brazilian carrier. If they sold us that tech, then it is a time saving good way to do it.
> 
> However, I'm not sure about the Authenticity of this. But if it is true, it would catapult, pun intended, us into undisputed second most powerful navy in the world bar none.


I only gave you the thanks because a good pun earns it.



Genesis said:


> Some imaginings, I'm thinking none will be it, but it's a carrier, it's close, at least with some of it.


 Really nice But am I the only one who noticed not one of those pics relates to the other? Swooped down nose in one, copy-paste American in the other? We have sci-fi illustrators too! (oops....just realized the poster mentioned that these were concepts....sorry)


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## Sasquatch

SinoSoldier said:


> France's and UK's navies are not toe to toe with China's navy in numbers, projection, or firepower. The only threat besides the US' navy would be that of Japan. Others don't come near.



Both the Royal and French Navy are better trained and more experienced. They can project power way beyond their respective sealines. The Royal Navy was sent 8000 miles to fight in the Falklands, France can project power all the way into the Persian Gulf and most recently Syria. Neither Japan nor the PLAN have this capability, even Russian Kuznetsov has a better power projection than the PLAN. I'm being a realist, the PLAN may not face the royal or french navy but they have a greater capability than the PLAN.



Aeronaut said:


> We need CGIs.



Type 001 Upgraded Liaoning > Type 002 Kitty Hawk > Type 003 Nimitz.

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## Akasa

Hu Songshan said:


> Both the Royal and French Navy are better trained and more experienced. They can project power way beyond their respective sealines. The Royal Navy was sent 8000 miles to fight in the Falklands, France can project power all the way into the Persian Gulf and most recently Syria.


 
Europe's projection of power is due to their control of foreign based naval bases. That is a merit of their foreign policy, not military capability. China has significantly more dominant amphibious and long legged assets than the aforementioned nations.



Hu Songshan said:


> Neither Japan nor the PLAN have this capability,


 
False. China has more amphibious vessels, bigger ones, as well as greater number of observational and offensive assets to support them.



Hu Songshan said:


> even Russian Kuznetsov has a better power projection than the PLAN.


 
How so? Is it with the Kuznetsov's weaker radars, older engines, or obsolete aircraft?



Hu Songshan said:


> I'm being a realist, the PLAN may not face the royal or french navy but they have a greater capability than the PLAN.


 
"Realist" is the least suitable term to describe this.

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## Sasquatch

SinoSoldier said:


> Europe's projection of power is due to their control of foreign based naval bases. That is a merit of their foreign policy, not military capability. China has significantly more dominant amphibious and long legged assets than the aforementioned nations.



Having bases alone doesn't give them capability they still have to use support ships to maintain that capability overseas it does have a military factor in it. There are areas in which the PLAN is more dominant but overall still behind both navies.



SinoSoldier said:


> False. China has more amphibious vessels, bigger ones, as well as greater number of observational and offensive assets to support them.


But in terms of training and experience China is behind both navies and behind or on par with Japan, what I mean is neither China nor Japan have the projection capability.



SinoSoldier said:


> How so? Is it with the Kuznetsov's weaker radars, older engines, or obsolete aircraft?



What I'm saying is Kuznetsov still has a greater power projection capability despite it's shortcoming than the PLAN. As of now China's Navy remains regional. The Liaoning itself has problems, carrying heavy weapons on the J-15 and being a ski jump carrier. Its a better carrier than the Kuznetsov.




SinoSoldier said:


> "Realist" is the least suitable term to describe this.



Call me a skeptic, but I'm open to a wider perspective, could the PLAN overtake the Royal & French Navy yes right now no.

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## Akasa

Hu Songshan said:


> Having bases alone doesn't give them capability they still have to use support ships to maintain that capability overseas it does have a military factor in it. There are areas in which the PLAN is more dominant but overall still behind both navies.


 
And guess what, China has auxiliary ships as well, and in greater numbers. As said before, the abilities of the UK and French navies to carry out long legged missions are spurred by their lease or ownership of foreign military bases. That is a quality of their geopolitics, not technical military capability. In fact, China at one point considered expanding put to thirteen overseas military bases. In purely military terms, the navies of UK and France are exceedingly overwhelmed by that of China, in terms of firepower, quantity, supports, and in some areas technology.




Hu Songshan said:


> But in terms of training and experience China is behind both navies and behind or on par with Japan, what I mean is neither China nor Japan have the projection capability.


 
And unless people actually know the experience of the Chinese navy, that statement is unsubstantiated at best.





Hu Songshan said:


> What I'm saying is Kuznetsov still has a greater power projection capability despite it's shortcoming than the PLAN. As of now China's Navy remains regional. The Liaoning itself has problems, carrying heavy weapons on the J-15 and being a ski jump carrier. Its a better carrier than the Kuznetsov.


 
How? The Liaoning has the same displacement as well as superior sensors, more capable jets, newer subsystems, and enlarged internal space.






Hu Songshan said:


> Call me a skeptic, but I'm open to a wider perspective, could the PLAN overtake the Royal & French Navy yes right now no.


 
Be a skeptic. However, it would be illogical to do so on the basis of very wrong assumptions and lack of common judgment.

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## UKBengali

China will end up with a carrier force as strong or even stronger than the US Navy.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Hu Songshan said:


> Type 001 Upgraded Liaoning > Type 002 Kitty Hawk > Type 003 Nimitz.



According to POP3, the Type 003 is Ford, not Nimitz.

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## Beast

Hu Songshan said:


> Both the Royal and French Navy are better trained and more experienced. They can project power way beyond their respective sealines. The Royal Navy was sent 8000 miles to fight in the Falklands, France can project power all the way into the Persian Gulf and most recently Syria. Neither Japan nor the PLAN have this capability, even Russian Kuznetsov has a better power projection than the PLAN. I'm being a realist, the PLAN may not face the royal or french navy but they have a greater capability than the PLAN.



Falkland war is donkey years ago event. Right now, i doubt RN is still able to carry out such task with every year shrinking military budget.

Syria is not that far from french shore. Fighting in your own turf is much easier than crossing another ocean.

I will rank jmsdf has even a bigger oversea naval power projection than french navy. Its more of the political restriction and lack of will than hardware shortage.

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## Hyperion

Mate, whether anyone likes it or not, I reckon that China will make it happen in the very near future. Besides, China is the rightful successor to # 2 position... they very well deserve it. Just imagine the hurdles they've crossed in the past couple of decades. 



Juice said:


> I only gave you the thanks because a good pun earns it.
> 
> Really nice But am I the only one who noticed not one of those pics relates to the other? Swooped down nose in one, copy-paste American in the other? We have sci-fi illustrators too! (oops....just realized the poster mentioned that these were concepts....sorry)

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## Sasquatch

SinoSoldier said:


> And guess what, China has auxiliary ships as well, and in greater numbers. As said before, the abilities of the UK and French navies to carry out long legged missions are spurred by their lease or ownership of foreign military bases. That is a quality of their geopolitics, not technical military capability. In fact, China at one point considered expanding put to thirteen overseas military bases. In purely military terms, the navies of UK and France are exceedingly overwhelmed by that of China, in terms of firepower, quantity, supports, and in some areas technology.




Again they have to maintain and support the oversea bases/missions there is a military aspect in it. Does the PLAN have any capability right now to do what the Royal Navy carried out in the Falklands even if it had the bases ? Or what the US did in preying mantis ? Sure I will concede that the PLAN is dominate in certain fields but it doesn't have the power projection ability and could it maintain and support missions like those? Your playing over quantity over quality game with the current PLAN and the current Royal/French Navy.



SinoSoldier said:


> And unless people actually know the experience of the Chinese navy, that statement is unsubstantiated at best.


 
The PLAN has already had naval confrontations with Vietnam which it defeated twice, but comparing that to both the Royal and French navies that have training and experience with the USN. Do you believe that the PLAN is better trained than both those navies?



SinoSoldier said:


> How? The Liaoning has the same displacement as well as superior sensors, more capable jets, newer subsystems, and enlarged internal space.



I've mentioned the Liaoning is indeed superior but the problem is with the J-15's weaponry load, and it's still a training ship. The Kuznetsov despite it's shortcomings can project power. this problem will be end with the Type 001.



SinoSoldier said:


> Be a skeptic. However, it would be illogical to do so on the basis of very wrong assumptions and lack of common judgment.



But both the Royal and French have power projection which the PLAN does not that's not an assumption. They are also better trained and experienced that's not an assumption, for now. The Gap will close in the coming years.



Beast said:


> Falkland war is donkey years ago event. Right now, i doubt RN is still able to carry out such task with every year shrinking military budget.
> 
> Syria is not that far from french shore. Fighting in your own turf is much easier than crossing another ocean.
> 
> I will rank jmsdf has even a bigger oversea naval power projection than french navy. Its more of the political restriction and lack of will than hardware shortage.



Could the Falklands war be downplayed? Only few countries could even pull what the RN did. I'll agree on this wars have forced a budget cut while our navy's budget grows. France had to cutback on a carrier, the gap is already closing now.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The PLAN can easily perform a Falkland stunt if it isn't being blocked by the USN.

Imagine if the USN was a hostile force to the Royal Navy, then i doubt the Royal Navy could sail that far to fight against Argentina. They would already get intercepted in the middle of the Ocean, while the PLAN is now facing the same problem.

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## Beast

Hu Songshan said:


> Again they have to maintain and support the oversea bases/missions there is a military aspect in it. Does the PLAN have any capability right now to do what the Royal Navy carried out in the Falklands even if it had the bases ? Or what the US did in preying mantis ? Sure I will concede that the PLAN is dominate in certain fields but it doesn't have the power projection ability and could it maintain and support missions like those? Your playing over quantity over quality game with the current PLAN and the current Royal/French Navy.


It does and has the ability. When libya crisis broke out. PLAN demonstrated the ability to rapidly evacuate the oversea citizen in short time.





Hu Songshan said:


> The PLAN has already had naval confrontations with Vietnam which it defeated twice, but comparing that to both the Royal and French navies that have training and experience with the USN. Do you believe that the PLAN is better trained than both those navies?


 You seems to forget, PLAN has step up massive amount of training including cross into pacific ocean for longer and tougher naval training which never happen even a decade ago. Few huge live firing multiple exercise had conducted which is unmatched NATO. Western power has budget constraint and training has cut down significantly. And the real live confrontation is irrelevant. Good training can equipped any armed forces with relevant skill.




Hu Songshan said:


> I've mentioned the Liaoning is indeed superior but the problem is with the J-15's weaponry load, and it's still a training ship. The Kuznetsov despite it's shortcomings can project power. this problem will be end with the Type 001.


 You are naive to think Liaoning is just a training ship. If neccessary, Liaoning can be deployed a full CV group. In what way is J-15 payload inferior to Su-33 or Mig-29K? Any proof?
Training carrier is just a title to calm China fear painted by western power. Same as JMSDF say one of its flat top is a destroyer to play down militarism of Japan. Or you really believe the Japanese story? 





Hu Songshan said:


> But both the Royal and French have power projection which the PLAN does not that's not an assumption. They are also better trained and experienced that's not an assumption, for now. The Gap will close in the coming years.


Better trained is a lie. PLAN is flused with money while western power has budget constrainted. This is a fact! PLAN is able to provided with more realistic training like real live missile firing which is expensive. Real live missile firing tested out your fleet operationa readiness and the robust of your equipment. RN and french navy ill afford such thing with little money and mostly tested with simulation only.


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## Umair Nawaz

Aeronaut said:


> We need CGIs.


what is that?

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## Chinese-Dragon

Umair Nawaz said:


> what is that?



Computer-Generated Image buddy.

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## Genesis

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> According to POP3, the Type 003 is Ford, not Nimitz.



Well nimitz is like the upgrade of Enterprise which itself is the nuclear version of Kitty hawk.

So if 003 is EMALS, then it must be Ford for comparable ship in class. 

If anything, this ship could be a non nuclear version of Nimitz.


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## Star Wars

HOw many aircrafts can it hold ? if its a super carrier , it has to be 60+


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## ChineseTiger1986

Star Wars said:


> HOw many aircrafts can it hold ? if its a super carrier , it has to be 60+



Like the Kitty Hawk class, so probably no less than 70.

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## Akasa

Hu Songshan said:


> Again they have to maintain and support the oversea bases/missions there is a military aspect in it. Does the PLAN have any capability right now to do what the Royal Navy carried out in the Falklands even if it had the bases ? Or what the US did in preying mantis ? Sure I will concede that the PLAN is dominate in certain fields but it doesn't have the power projection ability and could it maintain and support missions like those? Your playing over quantity over quality game with the current PLAN and the current Royal/French Navy.



Please read the post again. China has more amphibious support and replenishment ships than either France or Britain. In technical terms China has more capability than either country to support out these missions. The only navies that can be comparable to that of the Chinese are that of the Japanese and US..





Hu Songshan said:


> The PLAN has already had naval confrontations with Vietnam which it defeated twice, but comparing that to both the Royal and French navies that have training and experience with the USN. Do you believe that the PLAN is better trained than both those navies?



Nobody has any authoritative information on either, so it's erroneous to make an early judgment.





Hu Songshan said:


> I've mentioned the Liaoning is indeed superior but the problem is with the J-15's weaponry load, and it's still a training ship. The Kuznetsov despite it's shortcomings can project power. this problem will be end with the Type 001.



The Russian carrier also suffers the same limitations from the ski ramp as does the Chinese, buddy.





Hu Songshan said:


> But both the Royal and French have power projection which the PLAN does not that's not an assumption. They are also better trained and experienced that's not an assumption, for now. The Gap will close in the coming years.



False. PLAN has a lot more power projection assets than either UK or France, not to mention that China's assets are more powerful than that of UK or France. UK or France has neither technology nor numbers on their sides when it comes to the attributes of amphibious warfare and power projection.

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## english_man

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> According to POP3, the construction has been started, so China has simultaneously started the construction of both Type 001A and Type 002.
> 
> 转帖POP3大师:三言两语说弹射器-海军版-超级大本营军事论坛-最具影响力军事论坛 -



The Chinese must have a lot of naval architects, engineers and scientists to be working on more than one type of carrier...........and it must be quite a massive investment for the Chinese goverment.

One other thing, ive noticed a China vs UK thing on this thread, but that is silly as we are best of friends.........remember we British are not like the Americans!

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## Akasa

english_man said:


> The Chinese must have a lot of naval architects, engineers and scientists to be working on more than one type of carrier...........and it must be quite a massive investment for the Chinese goverment.
> 
> One other thing, ive noticed a China vs UK thing on this thread, but that is silly as we are best of friends.........remember we British are not like the Americans!



There's no UK vs China atmosphere here. The Chinese, after receiving a major shock when the Royal Navy pounded them into submission during the Opium Wars, was led to their push towards naval modernization; the Royal Navy in a way greatly inspired China to build up her own strength and even up to the 1980s Britain was keen to sell China advanced weaponry. Britain's desire to extend a hand during the Sino-Soviet split has not been forgotten.

The previous discussion was purely to mitigate any confusion regarding the Chinese navy's quantitative and qualitative merits.

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## Genesis

english_man said:


> The Chinese must have a lot of naval architects, engineers and scientists to be working on more than one type of carrier...........and it must be quite a massive investment for the Chinese goverment.
> 
> One other thing, ive noticed a China vs UK thing on this thread, but that is silly as we are best of friends.........remember we British are not like the Americans!



not an actual war deal, nobody thinks we are going to war with UK, what would we even fight about? 

It's more like athletes, you are faster I'm training to be faster, and then I take a look at how fast you are, and compare it to me.

China UK fighting would be weird, we are not Argentina and no way can you take us in Chinese waters, while it be foolish to think we can operate with hostile intent in UK waters.

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## Akasa

All those who can read Chinese, please lend a helping hand.
POP3大师:三言两语说弹射器 157LPOP3现身说法-海军版-超级大本营军事论坛-最具影响力军事论坛 -


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## Hamartia Antidote

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The PLAN can easily perform a Falkland stunt if it isn't being blocked by the USN.
> 
> Imagine if the USN was a hostile force to the Royal Navy, then i doubt the Royal Navy could sail that far to fight against Argentina. They would already get intercepted in the middle of the Ocean, while the PLAN is now facing the same problem.



The US didn't even need to be a hostile force. Under the Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance if Britain attacked the Argentine mainland we were obligated to sink her fleet.

Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The UK could only attack ships out of port. That limited the war to the area around the Falklands.


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## jarves

Post the specs guys.


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## aliaselin

SinoSoldier said:


> All those who can read Chinese, please lend a helping hand.
> POP3大师:三言两语说弹射器 157LPOP3现身说法-海军版-超级大本营军事论坛-最具影响力军事论坛 -


It said steam catapult was ready for a few years, but electromagnetic catapult not at the moment.
Type 002's progress is based on our navy version of 5th generation fighter.


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## Akasa

aliaselin said:


> It said steam catapult was ready for a few years, but electromagnetic catapult not at the moment.
> Type 002's progress is based on our navy version of 5th generation fighter.



Did it mention about the Type 002 being built?


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## aliaselin

SinoSoldier said:


> Did it mention about the Type 002 being built?


No. Just said this whole project started several years ago.
He has mentioned that the major problem could be the lagging of 5th generation fighter for navy before. What I have learnt from his talk is the biggest fault made by most people in this forum: first you have plane, and then design the AC; but not build an AC, then think about what plane you want to buy; otherwise you can not fully use of the AC platform.
By the way，shit on some bureaucracy who made the naval 5th generation fighter delayed for their private benefit.


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## ChineseTiger1986

aliaselin said:


> No. Just said this whole project started several years ago.
> He has mentioned that the major problem could be the lagging of 5th generation fighter for navy before. What I have learnt from his talk is the biggest fault made by most people in this forum: first you have plane, and then design the AC; but not build an AC, then think about what plane you want to buy; otherwise you can not fully use of the AC platform.
> By the way，*shit on some bureaucracy who made the naval 5th generation fighter delayed for their private benefit.*



This is a myth, the Northern Chinese corporations such as SAC and CSIC aren't that bureaucratic, even POP3 agrees with that.


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## aliaselin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This is a myth, the Northern Chinese corporations such as SAC and CSIC aren't that bureaucratic, even POP3 agrees with that.


My deskmate in high school worked in AVIC on research of avionics, and he had a bad view toward 601.
By the way, I don't refer to SAC in this case. 
As for CSIC, fault lies with Dalian government who urged private and foreign company to dig expertise from Dalian Shipyard, especially STX. Then what left? The Koreans escaped with debt and ppls lost job, while type 025Ds built by Dalian are not launched until today. Some ppls in the government should be put into jail for these faults.

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## ChineseTiger1986

aliaselin said:


> My deskmate in high school worked in AVIC on research of avionics, and he had a bad view toward 601.
> By the way, I don't refer to SAC in this case.
> As for CSIC, fault lies with Dalian government who urged private and foreign company to dig expertise from Dalian Shipyard, especially STX. Then what left? The Koreans escaped with debt and ppls lost job, while type 025Ds built by Dalian are not launched until today. Some ppls in the government should be put into jail for these faults.



I know that CAC has done a better job with J-20.

CSSC is more skillful since they have successfully developed China's own C13-2 steam catapult, while even Professor Ma chose them to be his partner for the development of the EMALS.

Despite most forum members in HSH keeps bashing Dalian and other CSIC shipyards, i didn't see POP3 join this fest.

He claimed that the shipyards are not responsible, while the design institutes are.

He obviously knows a lot of information about the SSBN/SSN, but he has to keep these areas in secret.

But from the few information leaked from him, TG's SSBN/SSN seems to be in healthy development.

So i think overall CSIC isn't that bad, neither is SAC.

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## bolo

aliaselin said:


> My deskmate in high school worked in AVIC on research of avionics, and he had a bad view toward 601.
> By the way, I don't refer to SAC in this case.
> As for CSIC, fault lies with Dalian government who urged private and foreign company to dig expertise from Dalian Shipyard, especially STX. Then what left? The Koreans escaped with debt and ppls lost job, while type 025Ds built by Dalian are not launched until today. Some ppls in the government should be put into jail for these faults.


 
Am I hearing this correctly. They required expertise to work on the 025D and used Koreans?

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## ChineseTiger1986

bolo said:


> Am I hearing this correctly. They required expertise to work on the 025D and used Koreans?



They got fooled by the Korean crooks for allowing them to invest in the Dalian shipbuilding industry, then the Koreans have messed up everything and got away with all the responsibility.

Now Dalian's shipbuilding capability (including the military one) has been severally affected by this, that's why the launch of the Type 052D and possibly with Type 001A might suffer a delay.

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## bolo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They got fooled by the Korean crooks for allowing them to invest in the Dalian shipbuilding industry, then the Koreans have messed up everything and got away with all the responsibility.
> 
> Now Dalian's shipbuilding capability (including the military one) has been severally affected by this, that's why the launch of the Type 052D and possibly with Type 001A might suffer a delay.


 
Strange because usually most countries do not allow foreigners to invest in sensitive areas. I smell someone from the ccp got a big kickback. 

Specifically, what did the koreans messed up on? 

Xi really need to clamp down on corruption.

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## ChineseTiger1986

bolo said:


> Strange because usually most countries do not allow foreigners to invest in sensitive areas. I smell someone from the ccp got a big kickback.
> 
> Specifically, what did the koreans messed up on?
> 
> Xi really need to clamp down on corruption.



Xi Jinping is really furious about those state-owned corporations who suffered either a bad management or corruption.

That's why the reform is a must for those state-owned corporations, it is not the privatization, but to bring them back to life with proper management and anti-corruption regulation.

They give the order of the Type 001A and Type 052D, the purpose is to restore the military shipbuilding capability of the Dalian shipyard.

The Jiangnan shipyard has not suffered a bad management like this, but they also have some stagnation in certain areas of management, so they will also follow a more efficient reform.

The Jiangnan shipyard will now handle project of the Type 002/003.

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## ChineseTiger1986

bolo said:


> Specifically, what did the koreans messed up on?



I think aliaselin knows more details in there.


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## aliaselin

bolo said:


> Strange because usually most countries do not allow foreigners to invest in sensitive areas. I smell someone from the ccp got a big kickback.
> 
> Specifically, what did the koreans messed up on?
> 
> Xi really need to clamp down on corruption.



An expertise on ship-building takes years of training. When STX enter Dalian and set up the subsidiary of the company there, they did not take several years to train their own expertise but dig ppls from the state owned shipyard in Dalian with high salary. However, their strategy proved totally wrong now and STX Dalian was bankrupt, even STX itself was saved by Korea government at the last moment of bankrupt. Now lots of people from STX Dalian are jobless and their salary are not paid, moreover, the local government did not gain any from this investment, but STX Dalian owed local banks lots of money. 
Basically, I don't understand why Dalian government induct STX there. Dalian Shipyard is a very strong shipyard and famous in the world, if the local government thought the local ship-building potency did not reach the limit, they can simply invest more to Dalian Shipyard or Liaonan Shipyard.

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## ChineseTiger1986

aliaselin said:


> An expertise on ship-building takes years of training. When STX enter Dalian and set up the subsidiary of the company there, they did not take several years to train their own expertise but dig ppls from the state owned shipyard in Dalian with high salary. However, their strategy proved totally wrong now and STX Dalian was bankrupt, even STX itself was saved by Korea government at the last moment of bankrupt. Now lots of people from STX Dalian are jobless and their salary are not paid, moreover, the local government did not gain any from this investment, but STX Dalian owed local banks lots of money.
> Basically, I don't understand why Dalian government induct STX there. Dalian Shipyard is a very strong shipyard and famous in the world, if the local government thought the local ship-building potency did not reach the limit, they can simply invest more to Dalian Shipyard or Liaonan Shipyard.



The Type 003 will use steam catapult or EMALS?

According to POP3, it will displace over 100000 tons and be nuclear powered, but even he is not sure it will have steam catapult or EMALS.


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## aliaselin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 003 will use steam catapult or EMALS?
> 
> According to POP3, it will displace over 100000 tons and be nuclear powered, but even he is not sure it will have steam catapult or EMALS.


Yes, I think EMALS is not ready, and this may be why he is not sure about it.

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## ChineseTiger1986

aliaselin said:


> Yes, I think EMALS is not ready, and this may be why he is not sure about it.



Professor Ma has now worked the EMALS with CSSC, so hopefully they have accomplished the project by 2020.


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## bolo

aliaselin said:


> An expertise on ship-building takes years of training. When STX enter Dalian and set up the subsidiary of the company there, they did not take several years to train their own expertise but dig ppls from the state owned shipyard in Dalian with high salary. However, their strategy proved totally wrong now and STX Dalian was bankrupt, even STX itself was saved by Korea government at the last moment of bankrupt. Now lots of people from STX Dalian are jobless and their salary are not paid, moreover, the local government did not gain any from this investment, but STX Dalian owed local banks lots of money.
> Basically, I don't understand why Dalian government induct STX there. Dalian Shipyard is a very strong shipyard and famous in the world, if the local government thought the local ship-building potency did not reach the limit, they can simply invest more to Dalian Shipyard or Liaonan Shipyard.


So basically stx (korean subsidiary ) of dalian shipyard is bankrupt, but Dalian shipyard is still around. Why don't dalian shipyard hired those locals who lost their job with stx? And what is the point of stx subsidiary that is building ships like dalian? i guess the dalian gov't really fukked it up.

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## ChineseTiger1986

bolo said:


> So basically stx (korean subsidiary ) of dalian shipyard is bankrupt, but Dalian shipyard is still around. Why don't dalian shipyard hired those locals who lost their job with stx? And what is the point of stx subsidiary that is building ships like dalian? i guess the dalian gov't really fukked it up.



If Dalian shipyard really has the difficulty for the mass production of the Type 052D/055 destroyer, then maybe Huangpu or Guangzhou shipyards should substitute part of its production.


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## aliaselin

bolo said:


> So basically stx (korean subsidiary ) of dalian shipyard is bankrupt, but Dalian shipyard is still around. Why don't dalian shipyard hired those locals who lost their job with stx? And what is the point of stx subsidiary that is building ships like dalian? i guess the dalian gov't really fukked it up.


I think they have hired some freshman to replenishment most of the position, but it needs time for them to become a skilled worker. On the other hand, some of the people may be hired by Dalian Shipyard again, but it's hard for them to get permanent position due to state-owned company's rule.


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## ChineseTiger1986

aliaselin said:


> I think they have hired some freshman to replenishment most of the position, but it needs time for them to become a skilled worker. On the other hand, some of the people may be hired by Dalian Shipyard again, but it's hard for them to get permanent position due to state-owned company's rule.



Why Hu Jintao gave the order of the Type 001A to Dalian shipyard? Since the initial plan was 001->002->003.

According to some big shrimps from HSH, it is to restore the shipbuilding capability of Dalian shipyard.

But most these guys including POP3 are from the area around Shanghai, do they hold a bias against Dalian Shipyard?


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## aliaselin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> If Dalian shipyard really has the difficulty for the mass production of the Type 052D/055 destroyer, then maybe Huangpu or Guangzhou shipyards should substitute part of its production.


I think it's a hard work for Dalian shipyard compared to Jiangnan Shipyard, but still they are capable to finishing it on time. Though with some skilled workers lost, it is still much better than Huangpu and GSI Shipyard. By the way, if choosing the third shipyard to build ACs, I prefer SWS and Hudong Zhonghua.

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## ChineseTiger1986

aliaselin said:


> I think it's a hard work for Dalian shipyard compared to Jiangnan Shipyard, but still they are capable to finishing it on time. Though with some skilled workers lost, it is still much better than Huangpu and GSI Shipyard. By the way, if choosing the third shipyard to build ACs, I prefer SWS and Hudong Zhonghua.



Hudong Zhonghua is limited by the Huangpu River, while SWS never had the experience to build the military ship.

BTW, i think after finishing the Type 001A, DL will start the construction of the second ship of the Type 002.

So after following the footprint of JN, they will eventually restore and improve their capability.


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## aliaselin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Why Hu Jintao gave the order of the Type 001A to Dalian shipyard? Since the initial plan was 001->002->003.
> 
> According to some big shrimps from HSH, it is to restore the shipbuilding capability of Dalian shipyard.
> 
> But most these guys including POP3 are from the area around Shanghai, do they hold a bias against Dalian Shipyard?



As with shipbuilding ability, you can find more information from 龙de船人 最具影响力的船舶与海洋工程社区网站-行业信息交流和技术交流最佳平台
After surfing on the forum for some time, in my view, Hudong Zhonghua may be the best shipyard, both from technique and management. Jiangnan Shipyard have better technique but not so good management. Dalian are inferior to these two but comparable. SWS have techniques but when considering military shipbuilding, they lack experience. Huangpu and GSI are far behind these top four, while Wuchang Shipyard is not a very good one, and it is behind many shipyards in China, some even do not belong to CSIC and CSSC.
However, this is only a global view, and some old state-owned shipyards have their own special skills, and the best example is Wuchang Shiyard - you should understand what I mean.

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## ChineseTiger1986

aliaselin said:


> As with shipbuilding ability, you can find more information from 龙de船人 最具影响力的船舶与海洋工程社区网站-行业信息交流和技术交流最佳平台
> After surfing on the forum for some time, in my view, Hudong Zhonghua may be the best shipyard, both from technique and management. Jiangnan Shipyard have better technique but not so good management. Dalian are inferior to these two but comparable. SWS have techniques but when considering military shipbuilding, they lack experience. Huangpu and GSI are far behind these top four, while Wuchang Shipyard is not a very good one, and it is behind many shipyards in China, some even do not belong to CSIC and CSSC.
> However, this is only a global view, and some old state-owned shipyards have their own special skills, and the best example is Wuchang Shiyard - you should understand what I mean.



That's pretty much like the information from POP3.

BTW, it is funny that the CD forum is mostly anti-SAC, while the HSH forum is mostly anti-DL.

But these two forums hate each other the most, while both got emboldened by some regionist element.


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## aliaselin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Hudong Zhonghua is limited by the Huangpu River, while SWS never had the experience to build the military ship.
> 
> BTW, i think after finishing the Type 001A, DL will start the construction of the second ship of the Type 002.
> 
> So after following the footprint of JN, they will eventually restore and improve their capability.


There are three production lines in Changxing Island. The 3rd one belongs to Jiangnan Shipyard, and 1st one belongs to Hudong Zhonghua Shipyard. So this a not problem. As to SWS, you can consider it as subsidiary of Jiangnan Shipyard.

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## ChineseTiger1986

aliaselin said:


> There are three production lines in Chongmingdao Island. The 3rd one belongs to Jiangnan Shipyard, and 1st one belongs to Hudong Zhonghua Shipyard. So this a not problem. As to SWS, you can consider it as subsidiary of Jiangnan Shipyard.



I think HD will assist JN in the production of the Type 002, since they both belong to CSSC.

But the old ship worker from Nanjing always considers SWS as the best candidate for the aircraft carrier builder, i just don't know he holds such view.


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## aliaselin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I think HD will assist JN in the production of the Type 002, since they both belong to CSSC.
> 
> But the old ship worker from Nanjing always considers SWS as the best candidate for the aircraft carrier builder, i don't just know he holds such view.



One of my classmate who worked in Shanhaiguan Shipyard also considered SWS as the best shipyard for civil use. So I think this may be the common view inside the industry, and what they lack is experience.

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## ChineseTiger1986

aliaselin said:


> One of my classmate who worked in Shanhaiguan Shipyard also considered SWS as the best shipyard for civil use. So I think this may be the common view inside the industry, and what they lack is experience.



The moderators from CD claim that the Type 001A was started in last year, while the old shipyard worker from Nanjing went to Dalian shipyard in the January, and he has filmed and proved the construction has not started yet.

Which claim is more reliable?


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## aliaselin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The moderators from CD claim that the Type 001A was started in last year, while the old shipyard worker from Nanjing went to Dalian shipyard in the January, and he has filmed and proved the construction has not started yet.
> 
> Which claim is more reliable?



I think It depends on what is the definition of starting. I remember that worker you mentioned said the contract was signed last year in October, so maybe they talked about the same thing.

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## ChineseTiger1986

aliaselin said:


> I think It depends on what is the definition of starting. I remember that worker you mentioned said the contract was signed last year in October, so maybe they talked about the same thing.



I think they are cutting the first piece of steel in last year.

But the laid down maybe will be in this year.


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## aliaselin

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I think they are cutting the first piece of steel in last year.
> 
> But the laid down maybe will be in this year.


Cutting steel is not that important, and it is only a ceremony for the leaders. BD navy's type 056 cutting the first piece of steel in March of last year, but we know it does need so much time for a type 056 to rolling out. However, I agree with your estimated timeline.

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## Surenas

*BEIJING (AP) — China says it is building its second aircraft carrier, this time entirely with domestic technology.*

Defense Ministry spokesman Col. Yang Yujun told reporters at a news conference Thursday that the 50,000-ton vessel is being built in the northern port of Dalian.

China currently operates one refurbished aircraft carrier purchased from Ukraine but armed and equipped in China. That carrier has yet to take on its full aviation complement.

Yang said the second carrier is being built entirely with domestic technology but had drawn on China's experience refitting its first carrier, the Liaoning.

China says it is building its second aircraft carrier - Business Insider

Congratulations to all Chinese members on this forum! Great achievement.

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## JSCh

*Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:13am EST *
*China confirms building second aircraft carrier*
BEIJING

China on Thursday confirmed it is building a second aircraft carrier, as neighbors worry about Beijing's new assertiveness to claims in the South China Sea.

Defense Ministry spokesman Yang Yujun said the carrier had been designed in China and was being built in the port of Dalian.

The construction drew on experiences from the country's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, bought from Ukraine in 1998 and refitted in China.

(Reporting By Ben Blanchard, Writing By Megha Rajagopalan; Editing by Nick Macfie)

China confirms building second aircraft carrier| Reuters

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## cirr

Type 001A with 50000-ton class standard displacement，circa 67000 full displacement。

Launch expected Spring 2016.

Building of Type 002 flattop will commerce in 2016。

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## Spy Master

So its a one thing where India and China stands equal... Because right now both operates 1 aircraft carrier?? Right?


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## xunzi

Spy Master said:


> So its a one thing where India and China stands equal... Because right now both operates 1 aircraft carrier?? Right?


That will change very quickly when we operated a real carrier with real support warships and submarines.

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## Manidabest

if China says it is building a 2nd aircraft carrier then it must be building it ... the only question is that is it going to be as good as compare to other countries like US

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## Pangu

Manidabest said:


> if China says it is building a 2nd aircraft carrier then it must be building it ... the only question is that is it going to be as good as compare to other countries like US



To compare it to the US is too far fetch. After all the USN has been at the forefront of carrier ops & tech. for many decades. While it is always nice to compare the ships vis a vis, it's better to focus on the specific role each nation intended for their aircraft carrier. I expect our ships to be more for escort duties, albeit like those light WWII aircraft carriers guarding the merchant fleet.

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## nang2

Good timing, when it is impossible to hide.

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## XiaoYaoZi

Second? more precisely third.

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## Cyberian

Congratulations China.

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## AliWaqar

sir g what china give to us? @Beast @Zarvan @SUPARCO WE Heard About subs ad hellicoptr But nothing arrives


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## Zarvan

AliWaqar said:


> sir g what china give to us? @Beast @Zarvan @SUPARCO WE Heard About subs ad hellicoptr But nothing arrives


Order has been given they would arrive soon. Building things take time


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## cirr

Type 002， conventional steam catapult

Type 003， nuclear EMALS（of which the preliminary development has begun）

China likes taking things in steps。

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## Beast

AliWaqar said:


> sir g what china give to us? @Beast @Zarvan @SUPARCO WE Heard About subs ad hellicoptr But nothing arrives


It is indeed being build at Dalian shipyard. It will be launched soon but will take sometime to commission.

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## somsak

Where is floating Casino hotel Varyag was supposed to be.
This is a caste system. Varyag was born warrior, she was never able to change her destiny.

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## Pangu

somsak said:


> Where is floating Casino hotel Varyag was supposed to be.
> This is a caste system. Varyag was born warrior, she was never able to change her destiny.



Varyag has moved on to less physical activities, like gambling.

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## AliWaqar

@Beast sir i ask u what china will give u pakistan in near future ??


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## Rajaraja Chola

xunzi said:


> That will change very quickly when we operated a real carrier with real support warships and submarines.



Are we operating with paper destroyers then?! Stop needless bragging. 

Congrats to China.


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## kuge

cirr said:


> Type 002， conventional steam catapult
> 
> Type 003， nuclear EMALS（of which the preliminary development has begun）
> 
> China likes taking things in steps。


whats the quantity for 002?


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## nang2

Spy Master said:


> So its a one thing where India and China stands equal... Because right now both operates 1 aircraft carrier?? Right?


We should give our Indian friends the due respect. Their AC is operational. Chinese AC is not. It is just a training platform.



XiaoYaoZi said:


> Second? more precisely third.


Yes, the second. The one whose photos have been spreading around for months. Chinese rarely confirm officially on anything that is under development. More often on those that cannot be hidden anymore.

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## Imtiaz_Sarwar

congratulations to our friend China for building Air Craft Carriers.

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## nang2

kuge said:


> whats the quantity for 002?


Don't bother asking. Nobody here knows.  Such a strategical weapon is always a well guarded secret.


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## Sasquatch

China eventually needs 6 future CBG, 3 focused on the first/second island chains, scs, sea of japan and the pacific. 3 more for the Indian ocean, arabian sea and near the horn of africa.

@Beast @cirr @ChineseTiger1986 @Martian2 @Chinese-Dragon thoughts ?

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## HAIDER

Under construction carrier

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## Beidou2020

Hu Songshan said:


> China eventually needs 6 future CBG, 3 focused on the first/second island chains, scs, sea of japan and the pacific. 3 more for the Indian ocean, arabian sea and near the horn of africa.



I think Type 001, 001A and 002 will be for regional patrols of the SCS and Sea of Japan.

Type 003 will be for global patrols. I'm sure only the Type 003 (100,000, nuclear powered, EMALS) will be built in multiple numbers. I think China needs 5 of these.

1 x Type 001
1 x Type 001A
1 x Type 002
5 x Type 003

Total aircraft carriers: 8

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## ChineseTiger1986

- Type 002 will start the construction by early 2016.

- Type 055 will build by three shipyards.

- Type 095 gonna be China's own Seawolf class, except the US cannot afford to build in large number, but it will not be a problem for China.

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## HAIDER



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## mosu

Congratulations brothers

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## cirr

Status as of 31.12.2015












Happy New Year to All！！！

I am 100% certain that the Chinese military industry will bring us more good news and surprises in 2016。

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## RISING SUN

Spy Master said:


> So its a one thing where India and China stands equal... Because right now both operates 1 aircraft carrier?? Right?


Sorry buddy, but we have two operational Carriers right now. One Vikrant class being built up and Vishal class in final stage of design freeze.


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## applesauce

RISING SUN said:


> Sorry buddy, but we have two operational Carriers right now. One Vikrant class being built up and Vishal class in final stage of design freeze.



indeed, india is ahead, with 2 operational carriers, and more experience in operating them than china.

viraat is to be decommissioned early 2016 however, and vikrant isnt due to be in service until 2018, so in 2018 both navies may be operating two carriers, and in process of obtaining a third one, though i expect the chinese program to be larger. and don't forget the escort force, from what we can see china is far ahead in that game.

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## terranMarine

If China is indeed starting the construction of Type 002 (early) this year we will have 3 operational carriers by 2021 and operating 30 modern destroyers. Something to look forward to in the coming 5 years.

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## sheik

RISING SUN said:


> Sorry buddy, but we have two operational Carriers right now. One Vikrant class being built up and Vishal class in final stage of design freeze.



India is always ahead. Congratulations!

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## neytirilover

At the dawn of the new year, trusted and validated sources on Chinese forums have unveiled information about the commencement of construction of a third aircraft carrier in Shanghai JiangNan Shipyards (Changxin Island). So far the detailed design is fully completed and drawings are being sent to the shipyard, the shipyard is now ordering materials and commencing pre-construction preps. The construction of blocks of the hull will commence indoors first and within two years blocks will be lifted to the dry dock to be concatenated.




It is said that the carrier will be concatenated in this dry dock after the current civilian ship occupying the dock is launched.

The source also stated, that the carrier will have steam-turbine powered 4-shaft propulsion with a total propulsion power of a little less than 240000 total shaft horsepower. The carrier will be considerably larger than the current Type 001/001A, it has a standard displacement of 60000-70000 tons and a fully loaded displacement of less than 80000 tons. The carrier is slightly smaller than Kitty Hawk, while it is comparable to the *then so called* "Super-carrier" Forrestal Class Aircraft Carrier (60000t standard, 75000t full).

It is expected to carrier around 48 heavy naval fighter aircraft, probably variants of J-15 or even future 4th/5th gen naval fighters, along with other fixed wing aircraft and helicopters. It is much expected that a fixed wing AWACS platform would be matured by the time the first Type 002 aircraft carrier is commissioned.

Much dispute is there around the unveiled information by the same source claiming only two steam catapult will be installed on Type 002 aircraft carrier, due to limitations in power output and size of the catapult itself. The source also admitted that confidence on this piece of information (meaning the number of catapult to be installed) is not as robust. Possibilities exist that three or four steam catapults will be installed.

What's clear is that steam catapult will be installed on Type 002. Based on current information, it appears that the design of Type 002 will be somewhat similar to the French PA2 design.




Also, a matching design example in published Chinese Research Paper is also found:





This design shows technological influence from Type 001A and matches the description of the trusted source.

Based on an estimation of construction starting mid 2016 and a reasonable progress, the ship can be launched circa 2019, commission will take place circa 2021, combat capability will probably take shape after 2022~2023.

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## nang2

Oh my, a lot of information. Thx, bro

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## ChineseTiger1986

The Type 002 will be a prelude for the Type 003.

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## Beidou2020

Type 003 is the baby I'm looking forward to. They are modern day carriers.

CGB:
1 x type 003 nuclear aircraft carrier
3 x type 055 destroyers
3 x type 057 frigates
2 x type 095 nuclear attack submarines
1 x type 901 replenishment ship

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## cirr

The Navy is yet to put its signature on the dotted line。

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> Type 003 is the baby I'm looking forward to. They are modern day carriers.
> 
> CGB:
> 1 x type 003 nuclear aircraft carrier
> 3 x type 055 destroyers
> 3 x type 057 frigates
> 2 x type 095 nuclear attack submarines
> 1 x type 901 replenishment ship



Yeah, the Type 003 is going to be designed by the same team who designed the Type 002.

The Type 001A and the Type 002 were designed by two different teams, so the Type 001A won't hinder the development of the Type 002/003.

The Type 003 should be a nuclear one that fully displaces around 110,000 metric tons, also with four fully functional EMALS catapults; two at the bow and two at the angled flight deck.

The EMALS development has just entered into a groundbreaking stage, and the design will soon become finalized.

Now, the only problem for China is the nuclear reactor. China needs a true fourth generation nuclear reactor that is even more powerful than the A1B reactor used by the CVN-78. Although China now has become the first country in the world to fully master the civilian 4th gen reactor, but we just need more time to navalize/miniaturize the civilian one in order to fit into the tightly designed aircraft carrier.

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## Beast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yeah, the Type 003 is going to be designed by the same team who designed the Type 002.
> 
> The Type 001A and the Type 002 were designed by two different teams, so the Type 001A won't hinder the development of the Type 002/003.
> 
> The Type 003 should be a nuclear one that fully displaces around 110,000 metric tons, also with four fully functional EMALS catapults; two at the bow and two at the angled flight deck.
> 
> The EMALS development has just entered into a groundbreaking stage, and the design will soon become finalized.
> 
> Now, the only problem for China is the nuclear reactor. China needs a true fourth generation nuclear reactor that is even more powerful than the A1B reactor used by the CVN-78. Although China now has become the first country in the world to fully master the civilian 4th gen reactor, but we just need more time to navalize/miniaturize the civilian one in order to fit into the tightly designed aircraft carrier.


Nuclear power reactor is over rated. Even you have unlimited range, you still need replenish ammo, aviation fuel and food. Still unable to eliminate replenishment ,a dangerous and vulnerable process at sea.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> Nuclear power reactor is over rated. Even you have unlimited range, you still need replenish ammo, aviation fuel and food. Still unable to eliminate replenishment ,a dangerous and vulnerable process at sea.



We are talking about a new generation super nuclear reactor that totally outclasses the A4W, even superior to the A1B.

Just look at France, they scaled up their submarine reactor for their CVN, but it ended up as a mess. The Charles de Gaulle CVN cannot even hit the benchmark speed of 30 knots.

Also, the replenishment ships can save a lot of the space of the carrier fuel for the aircraft fuel and other logistic supplies.

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## neytirilover

cirr said:


> The Navy is yet to put its signature on the dotted line。


That's almost a done deal.

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## zebra7

What is the timeline of type 003 Nuclear Carrier.

What is the Status of J-15, and does it is designed for catapull takeoff and recovery.

Any plan for J-31 and J-20 carrier variants.

Which Aerial AEW&C platform from the Carrier ?


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## neytirilover

zebra7 said:


> What is the timeline of type 003 Nuclear Carrier.
> 
> What is the Status of J-15, and does it is designed for catapull takeoff and recovery.
> 
> Any plan for J-31 and J-20 carrier variants.
> 
> Which Aerial AEW&C platform from the Carrier ?


The timeline of Type 003 is still unclear, my guess it will be largely dependent on the progress of development of a carrier-borne reactor, as well as suitable steam turbines. Chinese technology on 4th Gen civilian purpose reactors are quite mature now, both in terms of hardware and software systems. So I guess this won't take forever. While type 003 is under development, it is likely that at least two type 002/002A will be built, the first type 003 carrier is likely going to be built almost simultaneously with the last type 002A just like what's happening now between type 001A and type 002, it is also possible that two type 003 will be laid at the same time, if its development took longer and all type 002/002A are launched.

The J-15 variant for catapult takeoff and recovery is under steady development with smooth progress, again, I have no information of any timeline or date. So far, at least 10 J-15 is already carrier-borne.

Debate is ongoing as which stealth platform should we use but that has probably already been determined under the hood.

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## cnleio

I only knew the type002 to install domestic steam catapult on the deck.

Until to 2020, China might have three 60,000~80,000 ton Aircraft Carriers: type001 CV-16, type001A CV-17, type002 CV-18

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## zebra7



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## cnleio

Chinese r building the A.C: CV-16, CV-17, CV-18

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## terranMarine

Actually CV-17 and onwards doesn't really suit for labeling the next carriers. CV-16 was chosen because it took 16 years from purchase to towing it back to China to refurbishing the carrier. Better sticking to the 001,001A,002 for now until PLAN officially announces the designations.

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## sheik

Beast said:


> Nuclear power reactor is over rated. Even you have unlimited range, you still need replenish ammo, aviation fuel and food. Still unable to eliminate replenishment ,a dangerous and vulnerable process at sea.



A nuclear carrier doesn't have to bring fuel for itself, hence it can save a lot of space and bring much more aircraft fuel, weapons, parts, and other supplies. The replenishment ship can benefit from this too. That's a big advantage.

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## Keel

*No worry necessary over China's second aircraft carrier: expert*
English.news.cn 2016-01-01 22:16:42

BEIJING, Jan. 1 (Xinhua) -- A military expert said construction of China's second aircraft carrier is normal and *the scale of China's aircraft carrier development is much smaller than that of the United States and even India.*

*Aircraft carriers can help China better defend world peace and stability and play its role as a responsible developing power,* Zhang Junshe, a researcher with the People's Liberation Army's (PLA) Naval Military Studies Research Institute, told 81.cn, the official website of the PLA Daily.

A spokesman for China's defense ministry said Thursday that China's second carrier, with a displacement of *50,000 tonnes*, is conventionally powered and will employ *a ski-jump design* for warplanes to take off.

*As a latecomer, China needs to build conventionally powered carriers first in order to gain experience, and then build nuclear-powered ones according to the situation, said Zhang, noting that the design and manufacturing processes are completely domestic, with no foreign help.*

*Zhang added that future Chinese carriers will be fitted with catapults for fighter jets to take off on deck, but the process will be gradual since catapult take-off involves more complex technology.*

He noted that, compared with China's first carrier, the Liaoning, the second carrier will have more mature technology and performance, with better coordination between its systems and high anti-interference capacity.

While the main purpose of the Liaoning is research, testing and training, Zhang said *the second carrier will be able to carry out combat operations more quickly*. "Its missions will possibly include combat readiness on duty and other normal operations, including humanitarian rescue and disaster relief."

A report from the PLA Daily in late December said China's carrier forces, mainly those operating the Liaoning, had made considerable progress in fighting capacity this year, with more fighters parked on the carrier and more flights handled by the vessel.

The Liaoning was refitted from a former Soviet ship known as Varyag. It was delivered to the Chinese Navy on Sept. 25, 2012.


.

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## Keel

My projection:

001 Liaoning - for training and stand-by backup for other carriers' routine repair and maintenance
002 - 50K-ton, ski-jump, diesel, SCS

Next 6 years after launching of 002
003 - 60K - 80K tons - emals, nuclear - east sea and/or scs
005 - 60K - 80K tons - emals, nuclear - east sea and/or scs

Next 6 years after launching of 005
006 - 100K tons - emals, nuclear - scs and/or east pacific
007 - 100K tons - emals, nuclear - scs and/or east pacific

Next 6 years
Liaoning retires
008 - 100K tons - emals, nuclear, pan Asia/ global
009 - 100k tons - emals, nuclear, global






.

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## Oldman1

Beast said:


> Nuclear power reactor is over rated. Even you have unlimited range, you still need replenish ammo, aviation fuel and food. Still unable to eliminate replenishment ,a dangerous and vulnerable process at sea.



A carrier without nuclear power requires vast amount of fuel to keep the carrier going. Without it, it will run out of fuel in days. Not weeks. Days.


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## nang2

Oldman1 said:


> A carrier without nuclear power requires vast amount of fuel to keep the carrier going. Without it, it will run out of fuel in days. Not weeks. Days.


Only when it is full steam ahead

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## Oldman1

nang2 said:


> Only when it is full steam ahead



Which is needed. And considering that aircraft carriers would need large space to carry fuel instead of weapons and so on.


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## nang2

Oldman1 said:


> Which is needed. And considering that aircraft carriers would need large space to carry fuel instead of weapons and so on.


I don't think China intends to use these aircraft carriers far from home. Not until nuclear powered version is built.

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## Oldman1

nang2 said:


> I don't think China intends to use these aircraft carriers far from home. Not until nuclear powered version is built.



Its not about far from home. Its getting from A to B quickly to respond. Even looking at the map you see large bodies of water to cover.


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## nang2

Oldman1 said:


> Its not about far from home. Its getting from A to B quickly to respond. Even looking at the map you see large bodies of water to cover.


Well, how did kittyhawk work out?

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## Oldman1

nang2 said:


> Well, how did kittyhawk work out?



Enough to show that they don't need it anymore. After all, what type of propulsion is the USS Reagan?


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## Beast

Oldman1 said:


> Enough to show that they don't need it anymore. After all, what type of propulsion is the USS Reagan?


But KittyHawk still perform well during its service time.


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## gambit

nang2 said:


> Only when it is full steam ahead


A 'rolling takeoff' is when an aircraft is capable of taking flight on its own power. A 'ramp assisted' takeoff treads the line between a 'rolling takeoff' and an 'assisted takeoff'. A catapult launch is a full 'assisted takeoff'.

But no matter what, in launching aircrafts, a carrier will usually run full steam *INTO THE WIND* to give all aircrafts, regardless of launch method as much lift as possible. This consumes fuel. Guess which type of fuel will give the carrier which type of tactical responses, such as how many launches possible and when.

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## Oldman1

Beast said:


> But KittyHawk still perform well during its service time.



The Kittyhawk performed well but as you noticed all of our carriers are nuclear now.


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## Beast

Oldman1 said:


> The Kittyhawk performed well but as you noticed all of our carriers are nuclear now.



That is doesn't mean all others shall follow blindly.

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## Oldman1

Beast said:


> That is doesn't mean all others shall follow blindly.



And yet China plans to have a nuclear carrier instead of sticking to conventional only since they will never be sent far from home. Guess nuclear power outweighs the cons.


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## nang2

Oldman1 said:


> And yet China plans to have a nuclear carrier instead of sticking to conventional only since they will never be sent far from home. Guess nuclear power outweighs the cons.


It is just the natural development progress. Let's not be over enthusiastic about China's technical know-how. Patience is another virtue.

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## Oldman1

nang2 said:


> It is just the natural development progress. Let's not be over enthusiastic about China's technical know-how. Patience is another virtue.



My response is about nuclear being overrated by Beast when me and other posters have pointed out the pros over it. I'm pointing out China plans to have a nuclear powered carrier in the future. So doesn't matter what Beast says.


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## Sasquatch

Beidou2020 said:


> I think Type 001, 001A and 002 will be for regional patrols of the SCS and Sea of Japan.
> 
> Type 003 will be for global patrols. I'm sure only the Type 003 (100,000, nuclear powered, EMALS) will be built in multiple numbers. I think China needs 5 of these.
> 
> 1 x Type 001
> 1 x Type 001A
> 1 x Type 002
> 5 x Type 003
> 
> Total aircraft carriers: 8



Type 001 and Type 001A could be training vessels or transferred to a friendly country . The PLAN will probably have 8 carriers but 6 will be for regional and global patrols.

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## cnleio

@Hu Songshan @Deino
Dear moderators ! I have no idea why type001A and type002 Aircraft Carrier Building should merge into one thread ? No sence in there, two different threads for two China aircraft carrier projects ... chaos ?

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## Sasquatch

cnleio said:


> @Hu Songshan @Deino
> Dear moderators ! I have no idea why type001A and type002 Aircraft Carrier Building should merge into one thread ? No sence in there, two different threads for two China aircraft carrier projects ... chaos ?



The thread was already merged before I arrived here, am trying to figure out who did this. I want to keep the threads separate.

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## Title123

Hu Songshan said:


> First to carriers are going to be fitted with steam believe it, EMALS will be fitted on the Type 003. I was hoping they skip it as steam catapults are expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> Your wrong on this. It's going to take 5-10 years before the PLAN can even match the Royal or French Navy forget about being the second best.


i


Hu Songshan said:


> Both the Royal and French Navy are better trained and more experienced. They can project power way beyond their respective sealines. The Royal Navy was sent 8000 miles to fight in the Falklands, France can project power all the way into the Persian Gulf and most recently Syria. Neither Japan nor the PLAN have this capability, even Russian Kuznetsov has a better power projection than the PLAN. I'm being a realist, the PLAN may not face the royal or french navy but they have a greater capability than the PLAN.
> 
> 
> 
> Type 001 Upgraded Liaoning > Type 002 Kitty Hawk > Type 003 Nimitz.


With 20. China. Carrier. In. Near. Future. Come. How. English. France. will do



Hu Songshan said:


> Having bases alone doesn't give them capability they still have to use support ships to maintain that capability overseas it does have a military factor in it. There are areas in which the PLAN is more dominant but overall still behind both navies.
> 
> 
> But in terms of training and experience China is behind both navies and behind or on par with Japan, what I mean is neither China nor Japan have the projection capability.
> 
> 
> 
> What I'm saying is Kuznetsov still has a greater power projection capability despite it's shortcoming than the PLAN. As of now China's Navy remains regional. The Liaoning itself has problems, carrying heavy weapons on the J-15 and being a ski jump carrier. Its a better carrier than the Kuznetsov.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Call me a skeptic, but I'm open to a wider perspective, could the PLAN overtake the Royal & French Navy yes right now no.


But in near future China with. 20carrier


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## BoQ77

Type 002 Aircraft Carrier News & Discussion


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## Dragon Emperor

Pangu said:


> To compare it to the US is too far fetch. After all the USN has been at the forefront of carrier ops & tech. for many decades. While it is always nice to compare the ships vis a vis, it's better to focus on the specific role each nation intended for their aircraft carrier. I expect our ships to be more for escort duties, albeit like those light WWII aircraft carriers guarding the merchant fleet.


True indeed. China is a newbie in carrier ops. Even during Imperial Japan, they had many carriers to use, while Chinese are stuck in ground war resistance. Japan and USA have a long carrier operating experience.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Some Type 002 stats, the flight deck is 320.8 meters long and 84 meters wide, and the full displacement around 86,000 tonnes.

3 steam catapults with 2 on the bow and 1 on the angled flight deck.

@cirr



Dragon Emperor said:


> True indeed. China is a newbie in carrier ops. Even during Imperial Japan, they had many carriers to use, while Chinese are stuck in ground war resistance. Japan and USA have a long carrier operating experience.



I agree with the US comparison, but Japan has no modern carrier operating experience as well.

To compare the WWII carrier and the modern carrier is like apple to orange, the WWII carriers even took the aircrafts with the wooden structure aboard. Those WWII Japanese supercarrier crews were long dead, and Japan currently has no continuation of the modern carrier.

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## Akasa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Some Type 002 stats, the flight deck is 320.8 meters long and 84 meters, and the full displacement around 86,000 tonnes.
> 
> 3 steam catapults with 2 on the bow and 1 on the angled flight deck.
> 
> @cirr
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with the US comparison, but Japan has no modern carrier operating experience as well.
> 
> To compare the WWII carrier and the modern carrier is like apple to orange, the WWII carriers even took the aircrafts with the wooden structure. Those WWII Japanese supercarrier crews were long dead, and Japan currently has no continuation of the modern carrier.



When will construction start?


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## ChineseTiger1986

SinoSoldier said:


> When will construction start?



Within this year, between summer and fall.

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## lcloo

Now that 001A construction is nearly completion, radar and sensor testings will soon begin at the Wuhan testing centre for 002.

The mock 001A is now being modified to 002 configuration. No more ski ramp.

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## Han Patriot

Keel said:


> My projection:
> 
> 001 Liaoning - for training and stand-by backup for other carriers' routine repair and maintenance
> 002 - 50K-ton, ski-jump, diesel, SCS
> 
> Next 6 years after launching of 002
> 003 - 60K - 80K tons - emals, nuclear - east sea and/or scs
> 005 - 60K - 80K tons - emals, nuclear - east sea and/or scs
> 
> Next 6 years after launching of 005
> 006 - 100K tons - emals, nuclear - scs and/or east pacific
> 007 - 100K tons - emals, nuclear - scs and/or east pacific
> 
> Next 6 years
> Liaoning retires
> 008 - 100K tons - emals, nuclear, pan Asia/ global
> 009 - 100k tons - emals, nuclear, global
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



I think 001A is a 60-70K tonnes class carrier, the 50K tonnes is maybe empty displacement. Full displacement should be around 60+K tonnes, same as 001.

OTH, Kiev class are around 40+K full displacement. 002 should be around 80+K tonnes.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Han Patriot said:


> I think 001A is a 60-70K tonnes class carrier, the 50K tonnes is maybe empty displacement. Full displacement should be around 60+K tonnes, same as 001.
> 
> OTH, Kiev class are around 40+K full displacement. 002 should be around 80+K tonnes.



The Type 002 is just slightly smaller than the Kitty Hawk class, while the Type 003 could be even bigger than the Gerald Ford class.

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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 002 is just slightly smaller than the Kitty Hawk class, while the Type 003 could be even bigger than the Gerald Ford class.



Type 002 should be nuclear-powered, EMALS, and 100,000 tons.

China should not make outdated aircraft carriers.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> Type 002 should be nuclear-powered, EMALS, and 100,000 tons.
> 
> China should not make outdated aircraft carriers.



Our nuclear plant isn't ready yet, we need to design a superior reactor which is better than anything the US currently has, and it will be based on the technology of the 4th nuclear reactor.

The design of the Type 002 is already finalized, so we don't have the time to alter it with the EMALS.

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## lcloo

Self delete - not really relevant content.


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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Our nuclear plant isn't ready yet, we need to design a superior reactor which is better than anything the US currently has, and it will be based on the technology of the 4th nuclear reactor.
> 
> The design of the Type 002 is already finalized, so we don't have the time to alter it with the EMALS.



What will be the specs of the Type 002?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> What will be the specs of the Type 002?



The full displacement is around 80,000 tonnes with 3 steam catapults; 2 on the bow and 1 on the angled flight deck.

Two ships of this class will be built; one in Shanghai, another one in Dalian.

Not just the catapult, but the Type 002 is a good practice for building the structure of the next even more complicated supercarrier such as the Type 003.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The full displacement is around 80,000 tonnes with 3 steam catapults; 2 on the bow and 1 on the angled flight deck.
> 
> Two ships of this class will be built; one in Shanghai, another one in Dalian.
> 
> Not just the catapult, but the Type 002 is a good practice for building the structure of the next even more complicated supercarrier such as the Type 003.



All these are just speculative new, I will wait for official announcement. Personally I don't think China is in the rush to build 002A when that the catapult and related aircrafts are still in experimental phase especially the carrier AWACS. Unless we want to make 002A as experiemental ship as Liaoning.

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## eldamar

So:

001 + 001A = STOVL
002 + 002A = Steam CATOBAR
003 + 003A and above = EMALS CATOBAR

?

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## hk299792458

Where do these "002A" and "003A" come from ?

I'm "happy" to see that imagination of human being has no limit...

Henri K.

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## eldamar

hk299792458 said:


> Where do these "002A" and "003A" come from ?
> 
> I'm "happy" to see that imagination of human being has no limit...
> 
> Henri K.



An accurate word translator, Chinese military forums/news otulets and a proficient grasp at the Chinese language are what u need to find out.


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## Deino

Surely 001 & 001A are no STOVL carriers

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## eldamar

Deino said:


> Surely 001 & 001A are no STOVL carriers



sorry i meant STOBAR


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## ChineseTiger1986

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> All these are just speculative new, I will wait for official announcement. Personally I don't think China is in the rush to build 002A when that the catapult and related aircrafts are still in experimental phase especially the carrier AWACS. Unless we want to make 002A as experiemental ship as Liaoning.



Even if there is a Type 002A, then the difference with the Type 002 won't be huge, like that of the Type 001/001A at most.



hk299792458 said:


> Where do these "002A" and "003A" come from ?
> 
> I'm "happy" to see that imagination of human being has no limit...
> 
> Henri K.



When I checked the official blog of POP3, he stated that the Type 001 and Type 002 will all have a pair of twin.

And the Type 003 turns out to be surprisingly huge, even bigger than the CVN-78.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> ....
> 
> When I checked the official blog of POP3,...
> 
> And the Type 003 turns out to be surprisingly huge, even bigger than the CVN-78.



And you all take This for granted & confirmed??? I do not want to be again as so often the one who calls to be rational and more careful. IMo it is much too early to be sure that the final specifications of 002 or eben 003 are finalised. Snd even if, i am sure they are a such closely guarded secret that they wont be known in any forum. 

By The way you were noting, that the current chinese nuclear reactors are insufficient ... While at the same time you are stating 003 will be larger than the Ford-class... That dors not make any sense than being wishfull thinking since esp. the power output will dramatically determine the size of any new Carrier.

As such i ask for being more patient. There are surely interesting times ahead, but we should wait and see...

Deino

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Deino said:


> And you all take This for granted & confirmed??? I do not want to be again as so often the one who calls to be rational and more careful. IMo it is much too early to be sure that the final specifications of 002 or eben 003 are finalised. Snd even if, i am sure they are a such closely guarded secret that they wont be known in any forum.
> 
> By The way you were noting, that the current chinese nuclear reactors are insufficient ... While at the same time you are stating 003 will be larger than the Ford-class... That dors not make any sense than being wishfull thinking since esp. the power output will dramatically determine the size of any new Carrier.
> 
> As such i ask for being more patient. There are surely interesting times ahead, but we should wait and see...
> 
> Deino



Agree it's better to wait for good official new than to waste time on a mislead false sensational fan boys speculation. Up until now we haven't see video regarding how China perform EMAL or steam catapult to eject J-15 into the air and people are bragging about 002A.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> And you all take This for granted & confirmed??? I do not want to be again as so often the one who calls to be rational and more careful. IMo it is much too early to be sure that the final specifications of 002 or eben 003 are finalised. Snd even if, i am sure they are a such closely guarded secret that they wont be known in any forum.
> 
> By The way you were noting, that the current chinese nuclear reactors are insufficient ... While at the same time you are stating 003 will be larger than the Ford-class... That dors not make any sense than being wishfull thinking since esp. the power output will dramatically determine the size of any new Carrier.
> 
> As such i ask for being more patient. There are surely interesting times ahead, but we should wait and see...
> 
> Deino



According to POP3, CV-16 = 50,000 tonnes in normal displacement and 60,000 tonnes in full displacement. And CVN-20 = 100,000+ tonnes in normal displacement, its the full displacement it is going to be twice as much as the CV-16.

You can ask @hk299792458 to confirm about that, since he can read Chinese and know the credibility of POP3.

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_a3b1f44601015ebh.html

Currently yes, our nuclear reactor is still insufficient to power a 100,000+ tonnes supercarrier with the EMALS, but in the next decade when we have fully navalized our fourth nuclear plant technology, then everything is going to change.

It also makes sense when China wants to build a bigger nuclear supercarrier than the CVN-78 class, since China chooses J-20 as its aircraft, while the USN chooses F-35. China still doesn't want to lose the numerical advantage, so its supercarrier is going to be bigger.



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Agree it's better to wait for good official new than to waste time on a mislead false sensational fan boys speculation. Up until now we haven't see video regarding how China perform EMAL or steam catapult to eject J-15 into the air and people are bragging about 002A.



POP3 = fanboy???

Among the Chinese netizens, perhaps no one knows the PLAN more than him.

Of course, he is retired right now, not all of his speculation is 100% correct, but he does have an idea about the future plan of the PLAN.

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## lcloo

POP3 is an ex-PLAN official with decades spent in navy service, and is a naval institute insider, currently still involved in services related to PLAN ship building development. His words are like gospel in Chinese military forum.

That I think the above speaks well on his authority. Though we must also recognised the final decision on ship design rest on the highest central committee in Zhongnanghai. But then POP3 is possibly one of very few highly reliable "leakers" that the authority sanction.

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## hk299792458

The full displacement of 001 is < 60 000t, the one of 001A around 60 000t. I would personally say, full stop and that's all.

Henri K.

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## ChineseTiger1986

lcloo said:


> View attachment 323328
> View attachment 323329
> View attachment 323330
> View attachment 323332
> POP3 is an ex-PLAN official with decades spent in navy service, and is a naval institute insider, currently still involved in services related to PLAN ship building development. His words are like gospel in Chinese military forum.
> 
> That I think the above speaks well on his authority. Though we must also recognised the final decision on ship design rest on the highest central committee in Zhongnanghai. But then POP3 is possibly one of very few highly reliable "leakers" that the authority sanction.



The only uncertainty from POP3 is that he doesn't know much about the progression of the shipbuilding.

Because he is retired, so he won't often visit the shipyards like cat and huahua.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> POP3 = fanboy???
> 
> Among the Chinese netizens, perhaps no one knows the PLAN more than him.
> 
> Of course, he is retired right now, not all of his speculation is 100% correct, but he does have an idea about the future plan of the PLAN.



I don't know this guy but for me there is no difference from fanboy or expert when they make speculative new


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## ChineseTiger1986

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I don't know this guy but for me there is no difference from fanboy or expert when they make speculative new



He was one of those experts that involved in China's aircraft carrier program, and his identity can be confirmed.

He was also the first person who leaked (with the authorization of course) the information online about the Type 055, Type 001A, Type 002 and so on.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> He was one of those experts that involved in China's aircraft carrier program, and his identity can be confirmed.
> 
> He was also the first person who leaked (with the authorization of course) the information online about the Type 055, Type 001A, Type 002 and so on.



Maybe the leak is premature ...don't you think? we haven't seen a single J-15 perform catapult test on land and now we talk about 002 with EMALS or steam catapult? I'm eager as much as you know the 002A type but what I want to say it's better off wait for Official statement than just discuss on speculation that if one day Chinese official statement that we gonna build a 002A ski jump carrier again...then we will just fill with deception.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Maybe the leak is premature ...don't you think? we haven't seen a single J-15 perform catapult test on land and now we talk about 002 with EMALS or steam catapult? I'm eager as much as you know the 002A type but what I want to say it's better off wait for Official statement than just discuss on speculation that if one day Chinese official statement that we gonna build a 002A ski jump carrier again...then we will just fill with deception.



He was one of the persons that involved in the aircraft carrier project, of course he does know about China's plan.

The Type 002 with either EMALS or ski-jump doesn't exist, it wasn't included in the project.

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## ashok321

http://www.janes.com/article/62780/china-s-third-aircraft-carrier-likely-to-be-fitted-with-catapults


A photograph has emerged on Chinese online forums showing that China's land-based aircraft carrier mock-up in Wuhan, Hubei Province, is undergoing modifications.

These are likely to reflect changes between China's first indigenous aircraft carrier, the Type 001A, which is currently being built at Dalian shipyard and the next one to be constructed, which is commonly referred to as the Type 002.

*Most significantly the ski-jump section has been removed from the mock-up, reinforcing expectations that China's third carrier will be equipped with catapults.*

Construction of China's third carrier is expected to take place at the Jiangnan Changxingdao shipyard near Shanghai. So far there has been no official confirmation of the programme nor visible evidence of the construction, but there has been considerable speculation that production of the initial modules is already in progress.

*Satellite imagery of the Huangdicun Airbase, which supports China's J-15 carrier-based aircraft, reveals that construction of the facilities assessed to be catapults commenced in 2015. This is a further indication that future Chinese carriers will have a configuration for catapult-assisted take-off but arrested recovery (CATOBAR) operations.*

*The two systems being installed at Huangdicun are believed to be steam-powered and electromagnetic catapults. Installation of both suggests that a final decision on which system to adopt may not yet have been taken.*

The latest unofficial images of the Type 001A carrier at Dalian show a ski-jump section designed for short take-off operations; similar to that on China's first carrier_Liaoning_ .

Construction of the structure up to the flight deck is largely complete, with the final ski-jump module assembled and ready for installation.

The addition of modules to form the island should follow before the carrier's launch, which at the current rate of progress could take place before the end of 2016, although early 2017 is more likely.

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## lcloo

If non-Chinese do not know who POP3 is, that I can understand.

However, if a serious Chinese military watcher, resides in Mainland China, speaks and write in Chinese, and frequently visit Chinese military forum, yet have no idea on the great respect earned by Pop3 with his numerous articles, I say no further.

Just take somtime off to visit this website.

http://www.dingsheng.com/author.php?authorname=pop3

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## ChineseTiger1986

lcloo said:


> If non-Chinese do not know who POP3 is, that I can understand.
> 
> However, if a serious Chinese military watcher, resides in Mainland China, speaks and write in Chinese, and frequently visit Chinese military forum, yet have no idea on the great respect earned by Pop3 with his numerous articles, I say no further.
> 
> Just take somtime off to visit this website.
> 
> http://www.dingsheng.com/author.php?authorname=pop3



Many Chinese members here could be born oversea, especially in those English-speaking countries like Canada and America.

That's why they don't know about those Chinese military forums.

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## lcloo

汝先祖之辈源于华夏地，不可忘根，要多學中文，勿忘本。

Remember your roots and understand them well, wherever you my be.

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## Beast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Many Chinese members here could be born oversea, especially in those English-speaking countries like Canada and America.
> 
> That's why they don't know about those Chinese military forums.


And they act as as if they know more than the Chinese forumer themselves. They might even think they know Han Chinese better. That is the most disgusting thing about them.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Many Chinese members here could be born oversea, especially in those English-speaking countries like Canada and America.
> 
> That's why they don't know about those Chinese military forums.



No I don't know those military forum, but for me it's simple see is to believe or from official mouth, in China there is so many military fan boys that like to make speculation, artistic concept( CG) or even fake pictures...what they brought to us are just deception not news.



Beast said:


> And they act as as if they know more than the Chinese forumer themselves. They might even think they know Han Chinese better. That is the most disgusting thing about them.



And how relevant is this? Chinese military obsessed fan boys can also be called Chinese former, no one can't prevent them to throw out a ton of garbage and fake news without foundation and expect other to jump of joy like them or else we will be labeled as ignorant of Han Chinese?...LMAO just too funny.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> No I don't know those military forum, but for me it's simple see is to believe or from official mouth, in China there is so many military fan boys that like to make speculation, artistic concept( CG) or even fake pictures...what they brought to us are just deception not news.



POP3 has already earned his reputation.

The names like Type 055, Type 001A, Type 002 all came from him first on the cyberspace.

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## Beast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> POP3 has already earned his reputation.
> 
> The names like Type 055, Type 001A, Type 002 all came from him first on the cyberspace.


Respect and trust shall be given to POP3. To outright denied this source more or less show how some desperate some agenda trying to discredit him.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> Respect and trust shall be given to POP3. To outright denied this source more or less show how some desperate some agenda trying to discredit him.



POP3 said that he also wants China to build the Type 003 immediately, but we simply cannot neglect the laws of science.

The US is now also struggling with the CVN-78. So given more time, we will surpass the US in this domain in the coming decade.

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## english_man

Just for clarity, i've heard of POP3, and he is often mentioned on Chinese defence forums.
I hear that he is a retired gentleman, but when he was working what exactly was his job, and which part of the military was that for?
I know he has his own blog site, and his predictions of Chinese naval development turned out to being correct, though he does sometimes say he knows more than he is allowed to say, so i get the impression he only leaks information, when it is endorsed by the Chinese authorities.

Anyway, what is his latest news or predictions on Chinese military matters?

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## phancong

english_man said:


> Just for clarity, i've heard of POP3, and he is often mentioned on Chinese defence forums.
> I hear that he is a retired gentleman, but when he was working what exactly was his job, and which part of the military was that for?
> I know he has his own blog site, and his predictions of Chinese naval development turned out to being correct, though he does sometimes say he knows more than he is allowed to say, so i get the impression he only leaks information, when it is endorsed by the Chinese authorities.
> 
> Anyway, what is his latest news or predictions on Chinese military matters?


I don't think Chinese poster will tell you the real indentities of POP3 even they actually know who the man was.

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## ChineseTiger1986

english_man said:


> Just for clarity, i've heard of POP3, and he is often mentioned on Chinese defence forums.
> I hear that he is a retired gentleman, but when he was working what exactly was his job, and which part of the military was that for?
> I know he has his own blog site, and his predictions of Chinese naval development turned out to being correct, though he does sometimes say he knows more than he is allowed to say, so i get the impression he only leaks information, when it is endorsed by the Chinese authorities.
> 
> Anyway, what is his latest news or predictions on Chinese military matters?



In 2015, China has announced a new type of the gun for the Type 055, but it does contradict with the earlier opinion from POP3.

However, there is no surprise that he can also get wrong sometimes, since he is already retired and might have his knowledge updated on some details.



phancong said:


> I don't think Chinese poster will tell you the real indentities of POP3 even they actually know who the man was.



Most of us don't know this man in real life.

Some admins/mods from the CD forum might know him in real life, but they won't say anything.

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## lcloo

POP3 served in PLAN from 1974 or later to 2007 or later as naval officer. No info on exact joined and retired date.
And from the numerous awards given showed that he was deeply involved in navy ship n equipment research n development.

Check my post #156. These are personal items of Pop3. First photo showed his navy official id card covers issued by central military committee. The rest of photos are awards given to him by PLAN and CSSC.

CSSC has controlling stake in all major shipyards that build submarines, destroyers, aircraft carriers etc.

Names, dates etc are not shown to keep POP3's identity confidential.

Below is also his personal item.

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## Brainsucker

lcloo said:


> POP3 served in PLAN from 1974 or later to 2007 or later as naval officer. No info on exact joined and retired date.
> And from the numerous awards given showed that he was deeply involved in navy ship n equipment research n development.
> 
> Check my post #156. These are personal items of Pop3. First photo showed his navy official id card covers issued by central military committee. The rest of photos are awards given to him by PLAN and CSSC.
> 
> CSSC has controlling stake in all major shipyards that build submarines, destroyers, aircraft carriers etc.
> 
> Names, dates etc are not shown to keep POP3's identity confidential.
> 
> Below is also his personal item.
> 
> View attachment 323636
> 
> View attachment 323639



So he was a retired general or something?


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## terranMarine

Brainsucker said:


> So he was a retired general or something?


He's still alive dude  , i don't think he was an admiral but nevertheless he was heavily involved in the development so he knows his stuff that's for sure.

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## lcloo

2 strike and 3 star shoulder strap is for navy captain 海军上校. That is one rank below navy commodore.

This old man is certainly not a fan boy. He could be older than some of your grand papa.

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## yusheng

these are recently articles from pops, it doesnot matter the news are true or not, most of them are analysis essay.
for example, the latest one (Aug. 1 对四代舰载机和弹射航母有话要说) is about how to move J20 to Chinese AC, but this doesn't mean it is ture thought he comfirmed that PLAN has already involved in project J20.

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## aliaselin

Dudes，do you think if it is a good idea to reveal so much of POP3's information without his permission here?

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## Beast

aliaselin said:


> Dudes，do you think if it is a good idea to reveal so much of POP3's information without his permission here?


If he wouldnt want people to know his info, he wouldn't even post those thing online. He wants people to know his credibilities. Unlike some with no record or link who dare to question him his statement. His words shall be treated like Bible for Chinese military development.

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## ChineseTiger1986

China is ready to skip the steam catapult for the EMALS.

@cirr @XiaoYaoZi @Economic superpower

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## UKBengali

@ChineseTiger1986 : China's first nuclear powered aircraft carrier should be launched mid-2020s and will be as large and as sophisticated as the US Ford class. These two aircraft carrier classes will have no equal anywhere in the world.

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## Deino

... and the carrier mock-up at Wuhan has been modified even more ...

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## ChineseTiger1986

UKBengali said:


> @ChineseTiger1986 : China's first nuclear powered aircraft carrier should be launched mid-2020s and will be as large and as sophisticated as the US Ford class. These two aircraft carrier classes will have no equal anywhere in the world.



The construction could be started around early-2020s.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The speculation on the island structure of the Type 002, it does look much better than the Type 001.

The Type 003 will have even more room for the improvement.

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## hk299792458

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China is ready to skip the steam catapult for the EMALS.
> 
> @cirr @XiaoYaoZi @Economic superpower
> 
> View attachment 325278



Absolutely not the case.

Henri K.

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## ChineseTiger1986

hk299792458 said:


> Absolutely not the case.
> 
> Henri K.



POP3: I am not sure if the Type 002 has started the construction, but it seems unlikely right now.

fzgfzy/slayerhuahua: The construction has been started by 2016.

石头花: The construction has been started since 2015.

Who is right?

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## lcloo

I think Huahua's postings are more accurate because he did said that he is with the team directly involved with design of 002.

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## ChineseTiger1986

lcloo said:


> I think Huahua's postings are more accurate because he did said that he is with the team directly involved with design of 002.



So Type 002 in 2016 = Type 001A in 2013.

We should expect to see the Type 002 on the shipyard by 2018.

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## lcloo

Looking at the construction progress of the new land based test site for EMAL and steam catapult, it is very unlikely that 002 will get EMAL.

When 石头花 said work had began in 2015, I think he meant designing stage. Huahua said they have completed large part of design work over the past years.

Huahua was extremely frustracted and angered by the talks of putting EMAL on 002 because their original design work was based on steam catapult. He said they have been working very hard and overtime to complete their task, some of the team members have experienced severe mental and health stress.

And if 002 will to be installed with EMAL instead of the originally planned steam catapult, they would have to rework again but then everybody involved in the design works are now extremely tired physically and mentally.

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## ChineseTiger1986

lcloo said:


> Looking at the construction progress of the new land based test site for EMAL and steam catapult, it is very unlikely that 002 will get EMAL.
> 
> When 石头花 said work had began in 2015, I think he meant designing stage. Huahua said they have completed large part of design work over the past years.
> 
> Huahua was extremely frustracted and angered by the talks of putting EMAL on 002 because their original design was based on steam catapult. He said they have been working very hard and overtime to complete their task, some of the team members have experienced severe mental and health stress.
> 
> And if 002 will to be installed with EMAL instead of the originally planned steam catapult, they would have rework again but then everybody involved in the design works are now extremely tired physically and mentally.



If the first Type 002 uses the steam catapult, then the second one will use the same. Because instead of wasting time to modify the Type 002, they will rather focus on the design of the Type 003.

So the first Type 002 should be expected to be commissioned by the end of 2022 or the early 2023, and the second one will be commissioned by 2027.

By 2030, we should have our first Type 003.

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## nang2

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> If the first Type 002 uses the steam catapult, then the second one will use the same. Because instead of wasting time to modify the Type 002, they will rather focus on the design of the Type 003.
> 
> So the first Type 002 should be expected to be commissioned by the end of 2022 or the early 2023, and the second one will be commissioned by 2027.
> 
> By 2030, we should have our first Type 003.


personally, I'd prefer small but solid steps. steam catapult is decent already. most grand undertaking involving lots of unknown risks often end up in failures. It is often the fallacy among intellectuals who think with reasoning alone they can always achieve what they wish. success always favors real experiences. let's get more experiences with patience.

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## ChineseTiger1986

nang2 said:


> personally, I'd prefer small but solid steps. steam catapult is decent already. most grand undertaking involving lots of unknown risks often end up in failures. It is often the fallacy among intellectuals who think with reasoning alone they can always achieve what they wish. success always favors real experiences. let's get more experiences with patience.



Conventional STOBAR > Conventional CATOBAR > Nuclear EMALS

POP3 has already concluded that. By 2030, China will have 2 conventional STOBAR, 2 conventional CATOBAR, 1 nuclear EMALS.

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## UKBengali

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Conventional STOBAR > Conventional CATOBAR > Nuclear EMALS
> 
> POP3 has already concluded that. By 2030, China will have 2 conventional STOBAR, 2 conventional CATOBAR, 1 nuclear EMALS.



I think after 2030 China will start building two nuclear EMALS simultaneously.

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## ChineseTiger1986

UKBengali said:


> I think after 2030 China will start building two nuclear EMALS simultaneously.



Definitely, by 2030, the second nuclear EMALS should be launched, and the third one under the construction.

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## hk299792458

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> POP3: I am not sure if the Type 002 has started the construction, but it seems unlikely right now.
> 
> fzgfzy/slayerhuahua: The construction has been started by 2016.
> 
> 石头花: The construction has been started since 2015.
> 
> Who is right?



I don't know who is right, and to be honnest I don't really care because they are not the only source for me. They only come confirme, or not, other informations we can both access publicly.

I never believe if what you chinese guys called "大神". We don't know who is behind the screen, for sure some are very credibles for a while and for some particular topics, but I prefer not to believe anyone "blindly".

For me, part of the construction for the additionnal logistic and support building beside the dock will only finish by mi-2017. This means that some manufacture planners work could have started this year but, maybe, not the first cutting yet.

Search "江南大道188号" for example, you can find very interesting thing.

Henri K.

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## sheik

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> No I don't know those military forum, but for me it's simple see is to believe or from official mouth, in China there is so many military fan boys that like to make speculation, artistic concept( CG) or even fake pictures...what they brought to us are just deception not news.
> 
> 
> 
> And how relevant is this? Chinese military obsessed fan boys can also be called Chinese former, no one can't prevent them to throw out a ton of garbage and fake news without foundation and expect other to jump of joy like them or else we will be labeled as ignorant of Han Chinese?...LMAO just too funny.



You mentioned so many times of 'official' statement. Do you know that when China's government or news agency talks about some indigenously designed and manufatured weapons, it's usually already in service or close to commission? lol

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## ChineseTiger1986

The Type 002 with the EMALS???

http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2282101-1-1.html

Xi Jinping and PLAN want the EMALS right now, so the Type 002 will be postponed a bit, but with the EMALS.

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## Economic superpower

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 002 with the EMALS???
> 
> http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2282101-1-1.html
> 
> Xi Jinping and PLAN want the EMALS right now, so the Type 002 will be postponed a bit, but with the EMALS.



Better to delay and have a modern carrier than producing outdated weapons.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Economic superpower said:


> Better to delay and have a modern carrier than producing outdated weapons.



DL will produce one more Type 001A (Type 001B???).

So before the Type 002 becomes combat ready, China will have enough ski-jump carriers to operate.

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## yantong1980

Type 002 with EMALS and Type 001B, very interesting.
But wait, sorry, is this official?

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## Bussard Ramjet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 002 with the EMALS???
> 
> http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2282101-1-1.html
> 
> Xi Jinping and PLAN want the EMALS right now, so the Type 002 will be postponed a bit, but with the EMALS.



But shouldn't a military have both EMALS, and Steam Catapults? 

EMALS are vulnerable to EM attacks, and interference. Plus I hear they will be more detectable due to higher EM noise created.


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## ChineseTiger1986

yantong1980 said:


> Type 002 with EMALS and Type 001B, very interesting.
> But wait, sorry, is this official?



According to slayerhuahua, they (the steam catapult team) got screwed. The final decision made by the big boss has undone most of their previous work.



Bussard Ramjet said:


> But shouldn't a military have both EMALS, and Steam Catapults?
> 
> EMALS are vulnerable to EM attacks, and interference. Plus I hear they will be more detectable due to higher EM noise created.



Then why the USN is still making the EMALS?

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## Bussard Ramjet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Then why the USN is still making the EMALS?



Because both have their advantages and disadvantages, this is the reason why USN will be, for a very long time, fielding both steam catapults and EMALS.


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## lcloo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 002 with the EMALS???
> 
> http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2282101-1-1.html
> 
> Xi Jinping and PLAN want the EMALS right now, so the Type 002 will be postponed a bit, but with the EMALS.



Not exact translation, from Huahua.....

700 (days and nights) working full hearted contributing back to the nation. The temple (of the Lord ) though changes often (its mind). Only 30% of tear left.

夙夜思虑报国恩，题做七百铭初心
岂知庙堂多善变，只留三成泪沾襟

??? After 700 days and nights of hard work on the project, the higher up has changed their mind. Only 30% of the original works rendered will be retained. ???

If the puzzle is solved correctly, then 002 will be delayed for 1 1/2 to 2 years. And EMALS is it.

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## ChineseTiger1986

lcloo said:


> Not exact translation, from Huahua.....
> 
> 700 (days and nights) working full hearted contributing back to the nation. The temple (of the Lord ) though changes often (its mind). Only 30% of tear left.
> 
> 夙夜思虑报国恩，题做七百铭初心
> 岂知庙堂多善变，只留三成泪沾襟
> 
> ??? After 700 days and nights of hard work on the project, the higher up has changed their mind. Only 30% of the original works rendered will be retained. ???
> 
> If the puzzle is solved correctly, then 002 will be delayed for 1 1/2 to 2 years. And EMALS is it.



Maybe this "Type 002" will immediately turn into the Type 003.

POP3 has mentioned it before, this is the radical plan; to immediately install the EMALS and nuclear powered plants.

Also, General Zhang Zhaozhong recently hints there is a possibility of a second domestic ski-jump (third ski-jump overall).



Bussard Ramjet said:


> Because both have their advantages and disadvantages, this is the reason why USN will be, for a very long time, fielding both steam catapults and EMALS.



That's why we will build two more ski-jump carriers.

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## Economic superpower

lcloo said:


> Not exact translation, from Huahua.....
> 
> 700 (days and nights) working full hearted contributing back to the nation. The temple (of the Lord ) though changes often (its mind). Only 30% of tear left.
> 
> 夙夜思虑报国恩，题做七百铭初心
> 岂知庙堂多善变，只留三成泪沾襟
> 
> ??? After 700 days and nights of hard work on the project, the higher up has changed their mind. Only 30% of the original works rendered will be retained. ???
> 
> If the puzzle is solved correctly, then 002 will be delayed for 1 1/2 to 2 years. And EMALS is it.



If this is true, then it's sensible.

These carriers will operate for 30-40 years. As I said before, I see no point producing 60,000 ton non-nuclear steam catapult carriers.

The Type 001A is for China to gain experience in aircraft carrier building. But after that China should wait until it has the nuclear reactor and EMALS ready and then build a 100,000 ton carrier. Then build about 6 to 8 of these.

Getting them up to US Navy standards should be the key.

That means 100,000 ton nuclear powered EMALS should be the benchmark.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Economic superpower said:


> If this is true, then it's sensible.
> 
> These carriers will operate for 30-40 years. As I said before, I see no point producing 60,000 ton non-nuclear steam catapult carriers.
> 
> The Type 001A is for China to gain experience in aircraft carrier building. But after that China should wait until it has the nuclear reactor and EMALS ready and then build a 100,000 ton carrier. Then build about 6 to 8 of these.
> 
> Getting them up to US Navy standards should be the key.
> 
> That means 100,000 ton nuclear powered EMALS should be the benchmark.



A supercarrier will operate for 50 years, that's why Xi Jinping and the PLAN elites want to get rid of those conventional steam catapult carriers. It will also make it easier for our logistics and maintenance units.

The steam catapult is much less efficient than the EMALS, yet it is more complicated to build and to maintain.

The US has the mature steam catapult, while we don't have it. For us, the steam catapult is not easier to operate than the EMALS.

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## sheik

Bussard Ramjet said:


> But shouldn't a military have both EMALS, and Steam Catapults?
> 
> EMALS are vulnerable to EM attacks, and interference. Plus I hear they will be more detectable due to higher EM noise created.



Any CV, as well as the airplanes, will be vulnerable to EM attack. That's not a problem for EMALS only. EM emission control is an essential part of the design of EMALS.



Bussard Ramjet said:


> Because both have their advantages and disadvantages, this is the reason why USN will be, for a very long time, fielding both steam catapults and EMALS.



I think USN has to keep those Nimitz's simply because they cannot just retire them. If they can change a Nimitz to a Ford with little cost, I don't think they will hesitate at all. Do you think once the Nimitz's get retired USN will build new CV's with steam catapults?

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## Beast

Jump ski bow carrier may has it good point, no complicated steam catapult system and therefore no complicated system below, meaning more hangar space and less prone to mechanical failure since there is no mechanical in the first place.

With more efficient design and more powerful engine, heavy planes like AWACS may even take off from ski bow without catapult. China may just stick with ski bow carrier for future.

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## Ultima Thule

Beast said:


> Jump ski bow carrier may has it good point, no complicated steam catapult system and therefore no complicated system below, meaning more hangar space and less prone to mechanical failure since there is no mechanical in the first place.
> 
> With more efficient design and more powerful engine, heavy planes like AWACS may even take off from ski bow without catapult. China may just stick with ski bow carrier for future.


But Mr Beast ski jump carrier is own limitations, fighter jets can't takeoff with full weapon load from it and also space is also limted

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## Beast

pakistanipower said:


> But Mr Beast ski jump carrier is own limitations, fighter jets can't takeoff with full weapon load from it and also space is also limted


We shall see, if AWACS can take off from ski bow. I doubt the myth of limitation of ski bow for full load will hold true.

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## ChineseTiger1986

pakistanipower said:


> But Mr Beast ski jump carrier is own limitations, fighter jets can't takeoff with full weapon load from it and also space is also limted



That's why these carriers are just some temporary backup solution.

China already had the example like the Type 051C and Type 052C.



Beast said:


> Jump ski bow carrier may has it good point, no complicated steam catapult system and therefore no complicated system below, meaning more hangar space and less prone to mechanical failure since there is no mechanical in the first place.
> 
> With more efficient design and more powerful engine, heavy planes like AWACS may even take off from ski bow without catapult. China may just stick with ski bow carrier for future.



I would take the ski-jump over the steam catapult.

If the EMALS is available, then I would take the EMALS.

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## gambit

Beast said:


> We shall see, if AWACS can take off from ski bow. I doubt the myth of limitation of ski bow for full load will hold true.


I take it you speak from extensive personal experience in naval aviation, specifically aircraft carrier design.

E-2 Hawkeye AWACS
http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cf...form&key=FAD3E30B-AD5C-441A-8925-624BD0BA45F1
*Weight: *Max. gross, take-off: 53,000 lbs (23,850 kg) 40,200 lbs basic (18,090 kg).

F-18 Super Hornet
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=1100&tid=1200&ct=1
*Weight: *Maximum Take Off Gross Weight is 66,000 pounds (29,932 kg).

A fully loaded SH is heavier at take off than the fully fueled Hawkeye.



pakistanipower said:


> But Mr Beast ski jump carrier is own limitations, fighter jets can't takeoff with full weapon load from it and also space is also limted


The ski jump also negatively affects the carrier's aerodynamics. Believe it or not.

The ramp structure is an aerodynamic brake in front of the ship, limiting the ship's top speed and negatively affect fuel consumption at cruising speed.

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## gambit

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I would take the ski-jump over the steam catapult.


Then you are being grossly shortsighted for your China.

Let us take a look at the the 'push-pull' relationship type.

If an opportunity in front of you offers a life altering experience, and you took it, that is a 'pull'.

On the other hand, if you look at your long term goals and decided you need to take a class, or a relocation, or cosmetic surgery, or marriage, or whatever, each is a 'push'. You felt the need to create an opening.

Did China saw an abandoned aircraft carrier and said to herself: ' That is an opening I need to project my power. ' ?

Or did China looked at her long term goals, felt the need to project her power somehow, and came upon an abandoned aircraft carrier ? If there were no abandoned aircraft carrier, China would have embarked on a venture on learning how to build an aircraft carrier anyway.

Regardless of which, now that China have an aircraft carrier, how to use it ? This is not about the Liaoning. This is about the aircraft carrier itself.

Now we come to two types of aircraft carriers: catapult and ramp.

China finally learned the shortcomings of the ramp, or ski jump. According to the Liaioning's take off ramp, the naval aviation assigned fighter J-15 is limited to roughly 2000 kg of ordnance. The American F-18 Super Hornet, launched by steam catapult, can carry nearly 3 times that into battle.

Here is something you do not know but must understand...

With such a limited weapons load, the J-15 will RTB sooner, which make planning for deck operations more critical. The USS Midway, built at the end of WW II, and the Liaoning are roughly the same length of 300-something meters. The Midway have three steam catapults and can launch an aircraft every 45 seconds. The steam catapult proved reliable throughout the ship's life, including service in Desert Storm for an average of 121 combat sorties per day. If the Midway had a ramp, that figure would have been higher, but would not be a point of prestige. Her fighters would not be in their assigned areas for long. Even if every bomb and missile was 100 % accurate, each fighter would have to leave when it can no longer support ground objectives.

Supposedly, India's INS Vikramaditya, with a ramp, can launch a MIG every 2-3 minutes. Again, the USS MIdway can launch every 45 seconds.

China maybe able to project her power, but when an adversary quickly figured out her limited 'combat tempo', thanks to the carrier's ramp, her ability to sustain her power projection far away from home may not be so effective. That does not mean the ramp is a bad idea, only that your ability to fight is always tied to your available resources.

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## ChineseTiger1986

@lcloo What do you think about this signal?

The deputy mayor of Shanghai visiting the institute 704; it is to praise their work for the coming Type 002 or to console them for losing against the EMALS?

http://www.sheitc.gov.cn/zxxx/671227.htm

Since slayerhuahua definitely looks devastated after the recent decision made by the big boss.

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## lcloo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> @lcloo What do you think about this signal?
> 
> The deputy mayor of Shanghai visiting the institute 704; it is to praise their work for the coming Type 002 or to console them for losing against the EMALS?
> 
> http://www.sheitc.gov.cn/zxxx/671227.htm
> 
> Since slayerhuahua definitely looks devastated after the recent decision made by the big boss.



I am no expert but the news mentioned a very wide fields from space, aerospace, ship building, ocean study etc, and the key words are joint military-civilîan development in all these areas. Nothing specific on aircraft carrier, but we can expect a new phase of development in Shanghai, may be a new high tech estate for military stuff.

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## ChineseTiger1986

lcloo said:


> I am no expert but the news mentioned a very wide fields from space, aerospace, ship building, ocean study etc, and the key words are joint military-civilîan development in all these areas. Nothing specific on aircraft carrier, but we can expect a new phase of development in Shanghai, may be a new high tech estate for military stuff.



What do you think about this EMALS vs Steam Catapult rivalry so far?

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## grey boy 2

Updates

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## ChineseTiger1986

grey boy 2 said:


> Updates



The Type 001A belongs to this section.

https://defence.pk/threads/type-001a-aircraft-carrier-news-discussion.416441/page-20

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## lcloo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> What do you think about this EMALS vs Steam Catapult rivalry so far?


I think there is no question that PLAN prefer EMALS but the big boss in Zhongnanghai would prefer more ships in water rather than waiting for a new tech to be available. So, if EMALS is not ready, then it is steam cat.

However, from the recent news, looks like EMAL development is progressing very well, so very highly 002 will be EMALS.

China nowadays is moving away from the traditional conservative approach in military development. We will see more and more revolutionary development rather than evolutionary development.

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## ChineseTiger1986

lcloo said:


> I think there is no question that PLAN prefer EMALS but the big boss in Zhongnanghai would prefer more ships in water rather than waiting for a new tech to be available. So, if EMALS is not ready, then it is steam cat.
> 
> However, from the recent news, looks like EMAL development is progressing very well, so very highly 002 will be EMALS.
> 
> China nowadays is moving away from the traditional conservative approach in military development. We will see more and more revolutionary development rather than evolutionary development.



I heard there will be a final contest between the EMALS and the steam catapult by the end of this year.

In this match, the catapult with the most efficient performance will be chosen by the Type 002.

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## Pepsi Cola

With the experience from Maglevs, I don't think EMALS would be too far of a stretch.

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## Deino

Latest update of the Type 002's mock up at Wuhan

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## Brainsucker

Deino said:


> Latest update of the Type 002's mock up at Wuhan
> 
> View attachment 331731
> View attachment 331732



How big will the CV 002 be? It look small. Or maybe it just a mock up for the islands only?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Brainsucker said:


> How big will the CV 002 be? It look small. Or maybe it just a mock up for the islands only?



non-EMALS version = 80,000 tonnes
EMALS version = 100,000+ tonnes

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## CAPRICORN-88

IMO China will leapfrog the STEAM catapult and proceed straight into EMAL.

Based on what we are reading, the product is ready. Only the Aircraft Carrier is not.

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## hk299792458

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> IMO China will leapfrog the STEAM catapult and proceed straight into EMAL.
> 
> Based on what we are reading, the product is ready. Only the Aircraft Carrier is not.



The product is not certified, so not ready at all.

Henri K.

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## ChineseTiger1986

ahojunk said:


> China's second aircraft carrier features smaller island to maximize carrying capacity：military expert
> (People's Daily Online) 13:15, September 08, 2016
> 
> 
> _*
> View attachment 332436
> 
> Construction photo of China's second aircraft carrier. (Photo from internet)*_​
> 
> According to online photos showing the construction of China's second aircraft carrier, workers are already at the stage of attaching the ship's island, which acts as the command center for all flight deck operations. The installation of the island means that nearly all the large-scale equipment is basically finished and in place, and that the ship is close to entering water.
> 
> Modern aircraft carriers usually feature the bridge and chimneys on one side of the flight deck, which together resemble an island. However, comparing the island of this new carrier with that of the Liaoning, the island of the new carrier is noticeably smaller.
> 
> During a CCTV interview, military expert Cao Weidong said the construction photos make clear that the design of this carrier differs from the Liaoning in some key respects. Firstly, the new carrier boasts a smaller island, meaning that more space will be available for shipboard aircraft. Secondly, the performance of the carrier's new radar is superior to that of the Liaoning.
> 
> Wu Qian, spokesperson for China's Ministry of National Defense, said at a press conference on Aug. 25 that the construction of the first Chinese-made aircraft carrier was moving along quite smoothly.
> 
> According to the CCTV report, compared with the Liaoning, the new carrier will be able to enter active service more quickly. The new carrier's shipborne weapons and electronic equipment will also be the most advanced available.
> 
> China's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, is a refurbished former Soviet Union ship, which the Chinese government purchased from Ukraine.



It belongs to this section.

https://defence.pk/threads/type-001a-aircraft-carrier-news-discussion.416441/page-21



hk299792458 said:


> The product is not certified, so not ready at all.
> 
> Henri K.



I was also convinced that the Type 002 will use the steam catapult. However, there is too much uncertainty right now. It does look like our leader and PLAN do really trust the EMALS. So everything will remain with suspense, and we can't ensure which type of catapult will be used until the Type 002 is out.

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## ahojunk

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It belongs to this section.
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/type-001a-aircraft-carrier-news-discussion.416441/page-21
> :


Thank you @ChineseTiger1986 .

As per your suggestion, I have deleted the post and moved it to the correct thread.

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## grey boy 2

简氏防务周刊21号报道，中国开始试飞J-15弹射型舰载机。该机前起落架作了大幅改进可使用弹射器起飞，卫星照片还显示位于辽宁兴城的海军舰载机训练基地正同时修建一套蒸汽弹射器和一套电磁弹射器。

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## yusheng

CD魔牛小队大猫哥：写在“三好舰”即将现身之际--祝大家2016年国庆快乐

http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2295112-1-1.html

happy national day
the 002 is going to appear!!!!

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## Deino

yusheng said:


> ...
> 
> View attachment 339307




But that image is not the Type 002 already under construction ??? ... it's only a placeholder showing the place where it will be build ?
Or am I wrong?

Deino


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## yusheng

just as what has haapened in 2013 when 001 started, the 002 was already under construction though without official confirmation , however, the day 002 appears is coming when 001 enters the water.

Jiangnan is working on it, the pictures shows its work place.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> But that image is not the Type 002 already under construction ??? ... it's only a placeholder showing the place where it will be build ?
> Or am I wrong?
> 
> Deino



The Type 002 is going to make its public appearance in the Spring 2017 just like the Type 001A in the Spring 2015.

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## grey boy 2

The project of "002" 6-70000 class aircraft carrier has begun

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## sheik

grey boy 2 said:


> The project of "002" 6-70000 class aircraft carrier has begun



If my memory was not that bad, about one month ago the op was frustrated because PLA wants to use EMALS on 002 and many previous work by op and his colleague on the steam catapult system would be wasted. Since this new message was dated by 9/30, does it mean the decision was changed again and 002 will have steam catapult as originally planned?


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## Deino

Via the SDF: 

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/pl...lopment-news-thread.t8048/page-24#post-420833



Higgle said:


> Fzgfzy has some fresh information regarding the Type 002:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~70,000 tons (likely standard displacement, which would mean 80,000+ tons full load), three catapults and two elevators. There's some speculation saying this is a sign that construction on the 002 is underway.
> 
> He also has another surprise for us:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~35,000-ton Landing Helicopter Dock with aft elevator. Make of this what you will...
> 
> EDIT: Forgot the http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2309430-1-1.html

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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/791551154534572032

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## JSCh

Look like the MOD spokesman is referring to 001a, not 002.

*China assembling first domestic-built aircraft carrier *
Source: Xinhua | 2016-10-27 16:24:42 | Editor: huaxia

BEIJING, Oct. 27 (Xinhua) -- China's first domestic-built aircraft carrier is in the development stage, with the hull having already been assembled in a shipyard, said a spokesperson for the country's Ministry of National Defense on Thursday.

Design work on the vessel has been completed, said the ministry spokesperson Wu Qian, adding that workers are currently installing equipment to the ship's body.

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## grey boy 2



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## Zhu Rong Zheng Yang

_NOTE:
please comment freely ... ... I would like to hear your thinking.
Thanks so much before hand._

===

1.) In term of installing Steam cat and EM cat, there is *no* such thing is *Frozen* Interior Design.

2.) If by end of yr 2017 -- both Steam cat and EM cat are equally *ready and mature*, and thus ...

3.) It was definitely *Misleading to claim* that Steam cat is *more* reliable and easier to maintain than EM cat.

4.) There are *huge* and *significant Differences *and *Benefits *in terms of* Maintenance *and *Reliability* and
*Adjustable* *Power Output Performance* and *Space Requirement* between Steam cat and EM cat,
thus it would be very logical if CV-18 / 002 installs and use EM cat.

===

IIRC, the Big Shrimp ( Big Cat ) claimed CV-18 will use Steam cat.
Just because the PLAN Steam cat is more mature and ready to go since yr 2011, and
the internal Design of CV-18 has been frozen.
Sorry, IMHO, this is very simplistic and shallow to think this way.

If this is true, then ... ...
This is a *clear example of Static and Non Innovative Thinking* that still permeating in
many PLA officials, PRC government officials, and old generation Engineers and Scientists.

===

IIRC, one more critical factor that many watcher had missed, ... ... is PLAN Superstar Scientist
and multi Inventor MWM had already successfully manufactured / produced a relatively small
( *Superconducting* *Simultaneous AC + DC generators and motors* ) system in yr 2006.

_NOTE:
_
At that time in 2006, *globally, no other scientist have ever written* any paper on
( *Superconducting *Simultaneous AC + DC generators and motors ), let alone working prototype
and working production device. *They all think it is impossible*.

So far until now, I can spot *only 1 scientist* submitting a scientific paper on this.
And, his name is Chinese -- I seriously hope this civilian scientist is not -- a Hanjian
/ Traitor selling his knowledge ( *after stealing it from MWM* ) to americese CIA.

===

The benefits of using ( *Superconducting Simultaneous AC + DC generators and motors* )
compares to conventional generators and motors *are drastic in terms of *... ...
*Space Requirement, Power Consumption, Cooling, and 
Smooth Variable Force Output at all incremental setting* for launching
Swarming Interconnecting Drones with different shape, size and weight.

By end of yr 2017, given that both Steam cat and EM cat are equally *ready and mature*, ... ...
Since, in term of practical deployment, both Steam cat and EM cat systems are Brand New.

***Thus, ... ...
Why would PLAN brass limit and restrain the performance of CV-18 by
installing Steam cat in upcoming CV-18 ?


1) *Superconducting EMALS cat*






2) *Superconducting EMALS cat*







===

IMHO, ... ...
The upcoming age of *Multiple Combined arms* ( AIR + NAVAL + YM Baloon + Air Defense ) with
*Swarming and Interconnecting Drones* ( both Airborne n Underwater ) *leading the charge* on
the battlefield is here to stay.

Steam cat is NOT able to launch those Swarming and Interconnecting Drones, due to
( Steam cat Launching power output ) is *static and not adjustable and shrinking*.
***Thus, _Superconducting EMAL_ cat is a *must have *for any future *Aircraft Carrier to launch*
those Swarming and Interconnecting Drones.

+++

In summary, we will hear more and more stories that *americese is stealing and copying* from PRC.
Too many of all those *western english teachers in China* are spies sent by CIA to
destroy China from inside by *helping Uighur terrorists*, and now steal China National Secrets, while pretending to be english teachers.

***Thus, all Chinese citizens *need to be vigilant and carefully track and monitor* all those
*western english teachers in China all across Chinese cities*, and watch their hidden actions
in interacting with their local Chinese students and their parents.


===

To those americese, Israelese, Indian, aussies, brits members who support usa,
are you reading this post ?

@gambit ,, @Providence ,, @Surya 1 ,, @500 ,, @DavidSling ,,
@A.P. Richelieu ,, @mike2000 is back

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## Joe Shearer

Zhu Rong Zheng Yang said:


> @ChineseTiger1986 ,, @cirr ,, @grey boy 2 ,, @cnleio ,, @yusheng ,,
> @TaiShang ,, @Deino ,, @english_man ,, and many other members
> 
> If you can, please comment freely ... ... I would like to hear your thinking.
> Thanks so much before hand.
> 
> ===
> 
> 1.) In term of installing Steam cat and EM cat, there is *no* such thing is *Frozen* Interior Design.
> 
> 2.) If by end of yr 2017 -- both Steam cat and EM cat are equally *ready and mature*, and thus ...
> 
> 3.) It was definitely *Misleading to claim* that Steam cat is *more* reliable and easier to maintain than EM cat.
> 
> 4.) There are *huge* and *significant Differences *and *Benefits *in terms of* Maintenance *and *Reliability* and
> *Adjustable* *Power Output Performance* and *Space Requirement* between Steam cat and EM cat,
> thus it would be very logical if CV-18 / 002 installs and use EM cat.
> 
> ===
> 
> IIRC, the Big Shrimp ( Big Cat ) claimed CV-18 will use Steam cat.
> Just because the PLAN Steam cat is more mature and ready to go since yr 2011, and
> the internal Design of CV-18 has been frozen.
> Sorry, IMHO, this is very simplistic and shallow to think this way.
> 
> If this is true, then ... ...
> This is a *clear example of Static and Non Innovative Thinking* that still permeating in
> many PLA officials, PRC government officials, and old generation Engineers and Scientists.
> 
> ===
> 
> IIRC, one more critical factor that many watcher had missed, ... ... is PLAN Superstar Scientist
> and multi Inventor MWM had already successfully manufactured / produced a relatively small
> ( *Superconducting* *Simultaneous AC + DC generators and motors* ) system in yr 2006.
> 
> _NOTE:
> _
> At that time in 2006, *globally, no other scientist have ever written* any paper on
> ( *Superconducting *Simultaneous AC + DC generators and motors ), let alone working prototype
> and working production device. *They all think it is impossible*.
> 
> So far until now, I can spot *only 1 scientist* submitting a scientific paper on this.
> And, his name is Chinese -- I seriously hope this civilian scientist is not -- a Hanjian
> / Traitor selling his knowledge ( *after stealing it from MWM* ) to americese CIA.
> 
> ===
> 
> The benefits of using ( *Superconducting Simultaneous AC + DC generators and motors* )
> compares to conventional generators and motors *are drastic in terms of *... ...
> *Space Requirement, Power Consumption, Cooling, and
> Smooth Variable Force Output at all incremental setting* for launching
> Swarming Interconnecting Drones with different shape, size and weight.
> 
> By end of yr 2017, given that both Steam cat and EM cat are equally *ready and mature*, ... ...
> Since, in term of practical deployment, both Steam cat and EM cat systems are Brand New.
> 
> ***Thus, ... ...
> Why would PLAN brass limit and restrain the performance of CV-18 by
> installing Steam cat in upcoming CV-18 ?
> 
> 
> 1) *Superconducting EMALS cat*
> View attachment 351221
> 
> 
> 
> 2) *Superconducting EMALS cat*
> View attachment 351222
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ===
> 
> IMHO, ... ...
> The upcoming age of *Multiple Combined arms* ( AIR + NAVAL + YM Baloon + Air Defense ) with
> *Swarming and Interconnecting Drones* ( both Airborne n Underwater ) *leading the charge* on
> the battlefield is here to stay.
> 
> Steam cat is NOT able to launch those Swarming and Interconnecting Drones, due to
> ( Steam cat Launching power output ) is *static and not adjustable and shrinking*.
> ***Thus, _Superconducting EMAL_ cat is a *must have *for any future *Aircraft Carrier to launch*
> those Swarming and Interconnecting Drones.
> 
> +++
> 
> In summary, we will hear more and more stories that *americese is stealing and copying* from PRC.
> Too many of all those *western english teachers in China* are spies sent by CIA to
> destroy China from inside by *helping Uighur terrorists*, and now steal China National Secrets, while pretending to be english teachers.
> 
> ***Thus, all Chinese citizens *need to be vigilant and carefully track and monitor* all those
> *western english teachers in China all across Chinese cities*, and watch their hidden actions
> in interacting with their local Chinese students and their parents.
> 
> 
> ===
> 
> To those americese, Israelese, Indian, aussies, brits members who support usa,
> are you reading this post ?
> 
> @gambit ,, @Providence ,, @Surya 1 ,, @500 ,, @DavidSling ,,
> @A.P. Richelieu ,, @mike2000 is back ,, @Joe Shearer



Please DO NOT tag me without any reason.


----------



## Zarvan

*China's First Aircraft Carrier 'Liaoning' To Start Training With New Capacity*





China’s first aircraft carrier the Liaoning now ‘combat ready’

China's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning has recently left East China’s Shandong province to start a new training mission.

The Liaoning is the first aircraft carrier commissioned into the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) Surface Force. It has reached its full capacity and is now ready to "fight against enemies",Global Times reported Monday.


The aircraft carrier has been described as a surface platform for tests and training by the PLA's official media and currently as having a real combat capacity.

“At this moment, we are doing our best to promote our strength and use it to prevent war, and are prepared for actual combat at any time." Li Dongyou, the political commissar of the Liaoning said.

As a combat platform, regarding technology and capability to execute missions, China still lags behind the US, but three high-ranking US officials who visited the Liaoning before all gave a positive evaluation on the management affairs on the carrier.

The training photos displayed on official Chinese military websites, indicated that the ship had taken on its full accompaniment of aircraft.

The Liaoning, which was purchased as an incomplete Soviet-made hull from Ukraine in 1998, was commissioned in 2012.

China is also in the process of constructing its first indigenously built carrier, which the Defense Ministry said late last month was proceeding smoothly, with the hull having already been assembled.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/17...Start_Training_With_New_Capacity#.WCwUmdR95kg

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## ChineseTiger1986

The Type 002 will use the EMALS and displace over 100,000 tonnes.

The only remaining question is: will it have the nuclear propulsion?

Since China has also revealed its shipborne nuclear reactor.

http://news.sciencenet.cn/htmlnews/2016/1/336376.shtm

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## Akasa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 002 will use the EMALS and displace over 100,000 tonnes.
> 
> The only remaining question is: will it have the nuclear propulsion?
> 
> Since China has also revealed its shipborne nuclear reactor.
> 
> http://news.sciencenet.cn/htmlnews/2016/1/336376.shtm



The Type 002 is a 70-80000 ton conventional carrier with steam catapults. So far, rumors have ruled out EMALS and nuclear propulsion.


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## ChineseTiger1986

SinoSoldier said:


> The Type 002 is a 70-80000 ton conventional carrier with steam catapults. So far, rumors have ruled out EMALS and nuclear propulsion.



Your information is out, the steam catapult is dead and has been kicked out by the EMALS, and everyone has now changed their tone, including POP3.

Jiangnan is also going to enlarge the size of the shipyard no. 4 specifically for the coming Type 002.

The old Type 002 is dead, and the new Type 002 is the originally designated Type 003.

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## Akasa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Your information is out, the steam catapult is dead and has been kicked out by the EMALS, and everyone has now changed their tone, including POP3.
> 
> Jiangnan is also going to enlarge the size of the shipyard #4 specifically for the coming Type 002.
> 
> The old Type 002 is dead, and the new Type 002 is the original Type 003.



That's not the consensus. The Type 002 was originally supposed to take the Type 001A's place, but the PLAN decided on a conservative approach (hence why the 002 will adopt only a steam catapult).

However, there is no doubt that an EMALS is being developed (J-15A has flown from one).


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## ChineseTiger1986

SinoSoldier said:


> That's not the consensus. The Type 002 was originally supposed to take the Type 001A's place, but the PLAN decided on a conservative approach (hence why the 002 will adopt only a steam catapult).
> 
> However, there is no doubt that an EMALS is being developed (J-15A has flown from one).



It is becoming the consensus now, you haven't been updated the current information regarding the Type 002 since you don't know how to read Chinese.

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## Akasa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It is becoming the consensus now, you haven't been updated the current information regarding the Type 002 since you don't know how to read Chinese.



Not exactly. There are bloggers who translate up-to-date rumors into English, and from what's on there, the consensus is that the Type 002 will be a conventionally-powered vessel with steam cats.


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## ChineseTiger1986

SinoSoldier said:


> Not exactly. There are bloggers who translate up-to-date rumors into English, and from what's on there, the consensus is that the Type 002 will be a conventionally-powered vessel with steam cats.



They translated those outdated rumors.

The original Type 002 is dead, now it is the birth of the new Type 002.

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## Pepsi Cola

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They translated those outdated rumors.
> 
> The original Type 002 is dead, now it is the birth of the new Type 002.


make sense, considering there really is no need to start with a steam catapult.

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## samsara

SinoSoldier said:


> Not exactly. There are bloggers who translate up-to-date rumors into English, and from what's on there, the consensus is that the Type 002 will be a conventionally-powered vessel with steam cats.


One of the bloggers who does the translation sounds like Chan Kai Yee, an author of a couple of English books about China and runs his own blog to promote those books.

He inferred that the Chinese people are much inferior in quality compared to the American and asserted that due to China does not adopt the western democracy, it should not be allowed to surpass the USA in military and the USA should remain the number one in the world.
Some good source, just the kinds of Gordon Chang, Dean Cheng

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## ChineseTiger1986

samsara said:


> One of the bloggers sounds like Chan Kai Yee, an author of a couple of English books about China and runs his own blog to promote those books.
> 
> He inferred that the Chinese people are much inferior in quality compared to the American and asserted that due to China does not adopt the western democracy, it should not be allowed to surpass the USA in military and the USA should remain the number one in the world.
> Some good source, just the kinds of Gordon Chang, Dean Cheng



Daokou & Meyet: Staunch EMALS supporter since beginning.

Slayerhuahua: Staunch steam catapult supporter, but later complained about the new alternative design is exhausting the designing team of the Type 002.

fzgfzy: Staunch steam catapult supporter, but now he says the there is a contest between the EMALS and the steam catapult, and he believes the EMALS is likely the winner.

POP3: Staunch steam catapult supporter, but he is changing his tone now, not excluding the new plan for the EMALS.

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## DCS

I have been rooting for EM catapult configuration all along. Good news, if it's a valid rumor, it will gain steam over the coming months (pun intended).



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 002 will use the EMALS and displace over 100,000 tonnes.
> 
> The only remaining question is: will it have the nuclear propulsion?
> 
> Since China has also revealed its shipborne nuclear reactor.
> 
> http://news.sciencenet.cn/htmlnews/2016/1/336376.shtm



In my opinion, at >100,000 tonnes displacement, it will likely have to be nuclear. Conventional power plants will not be able to sustain speeds much above 25 knots without compromising range significantly. Top speed will be much lower than what nuclear propulsion could provide. Payload will be eaten up by fuel oil stores, in addition to aviation fuel, munitions, aircraft, and other stores. Endurance will be compromised, and will require an increase in the frequency of underway replenishment, which in conflict presents an additional window of vulnerability. Lastly, future power requirements will only increase, and that will require some overhead. At higher displacements, it doesn't make sense to remain conventional outside of budgetary reasons.

Overall, if we can be sure of the displacement, we will have a very good idea of what the power plant will be. I will check BBS, because even more interesting than the catapult news is the possibility of the Type 003 being pushed forward and the Type 002 essentially being canned in all but name. It will put 001A into perspective.

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## Deino

Via SDF / Bltizo !!!



> New and noteworthy:
> 
> Professor Jin Yinan (who is director of the strategic research institute at the PLA's National Defence University) at this conference said construction of China's third aircraft carrier began in March 2015 at JNCX!! 3:57 of the video, and it would be "flat deck, catapult take off". Consistent with known rumours of course.
> 
> http://www.bilibili.com/video/av7611144/
> 
> I assume that means steel cutting beginning in March 2015. If true (and I do believe it most likely is, and corresponds with previous/current rumours), I think we will probably see modules of 002 start to appear at JNCX next year at earliest.

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## Daniel808

Deino said:


> Via SDF / Bltizo !!!



I heard JNCX Shipyard is more "Efficient and Faster" than Dalian Shipyard.
Is that true?
Maybe we can see, Type 002 AC building time in JNCX Shipyard Faster than Type 001A AC in Dalian Shipyard.

Anyway, cannot wait to see China's Third Aircraft Carrier soon (Type 002 AC)

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## 艹艹艹



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## english_man

long_ said:


> View attachment 362664



"ǐ huì shuō yīngyǔ ma" 

'long' most of us here don't speak Chinese, and reading Chinese is even harder..........please could you, when posting, add an English translation as well.....thanks.

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## Daniel808

*English Version*


Deino said:


> Via SDF / Bltizo !!!



*Chinese Version*


long_ said:


> View attachment 362664






english_man said:


> "ǐ huì shuō yīngyǔ ma"
> 
> 'long' most of us here don't speak Chinese, and reading Chinese is even harder..........please could you, when posting, add an English translation as well.....thanks.

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## grey boy 2

002 with catapult construction has begun 002蒸弹已建造，本人用生命做担保 
我哥在三号线做焊工，他告诉我想上航母线上干拿工资高，我亲口问过他了，确认开始建造了，那就意味着我们梦寐以求的电弹002没指望了。

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## kristisipe

grey boy 2 said:


> 002 with catapult construction has begun 002蒸弹已建造，本人用生命做担保
> 我哥在三号线做焊工，他告诉我想上航母线上干拿工资高，我亲口问过他了，确认开始建造了，那就意味着我们梦寐以求的电弹002没指望了。


請問002甚麼時候才能行成戰鬥力? 台灣遲早要走向台獨, 祖國最終還是要有一定的反介入的力量才能拿下台灣．

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## ChineseTiger1986

kristisipe said:


> 請問002甚麼時候才能行成戰鬥力? 台灣遲早要走向台獨, 祖國最終還是要有一定的反介入的力量才能拿下台灣．



土工对付霉菌的神器不是靠航母，也不是靠歼20，而是靠空天一体战的武器。因为这玩意儿让霉菌束手无策，自己也没有。

航母和歼20只不过是锦上添花，但还不是真正的game changer。

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## 艹艹艹

kristisipe said:


> 請問002甚麼時候才能行成戰鬥力? 台灣遲早要走向台獨, 祖國最終還是要有一定的反介入的力量才能拿下台灣．


我們會在美日介入之前 拿下台灣島

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## Deino

*GUYS .... in English please !*

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## Deino

terranMarine said:


> stop your constant cries, chinese won't obey your calls.





terranMarine said:


> get lost dude, how's that for respect?


 

Honestly, if You want to play Sokker, why then You join a Baseball-team ???

This is an English language forum not by my will or ignorance but simply by the owners intention.
As such it is plain siple some sort of respect to obey to this rule or at least give a brief English summary.

If You want to continue speaking Chinese - as playing Baseball - why then You are here ???

Deino

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## Arthur

Well the gist of the Chinese conversation was in first post grey boy reports that construction of 002 has started citing a personal source & then in second post something about "electric bomb " (!) rest are offtopic about Taiwan wanting to secede & how China shall take over the Taiwan.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Could someone explain about this?

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## 帅的一匹

Sasquatch said:


> First to carriers are going to be fitted with steam believe it, EMALS will be fitted on the Type 003. I was hoping they skip it as steam catapults are expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> Your wrong on this. It's going to take 5-10 years before the PLAN can even match the Royal or French Navy forget about being the second best.


General Ying Zhuo said The nuclear reactor designed for carrier is not ready, so Emals won't be installed.

拿稳中国护照， 不要轻易移民。因为中国就要牛逼了！



Khan saheb said:


> Well the gist of the Chinese conversation was in first post grey boy reports that construction of 002 has started citing a personal source & then in second post something about "electric bomb " (!) rest are offtopic about Taiwan wanting to secede & how China shall take over the Taiwan.


All these weapons designed and developed is for taking back Taiwan, that how it is. That's why the Chinese army is called people liberation army, not Chinese army.

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## Deino

If You only want to hear cheer-leaders like hey & ho You will never get a decent, realistic image of what is truly going on behind that long great wall. So what are You doing here ??

At least I for myself try to lean, that is sometimes a bit hard since quite difficult not only due to the language barrier, but most of all since here's an interesting mix of peoples discussing: Over-enthusiastic fan-boys who think the J-20 already uses a WS-15 with a thrust of 212 kN, is able to supercruise at higher speed than the Raptor and maybe even able to reach Mach 3 ... as well as critical ones, who are asking legit questions, who are not taking all want is posted for plain granted and golden and surely a few nay-sayer too. If You deem a critical question already an insult, if for You a request and not-believe in these wet-dreams that are also posted here is already a national attack, then You are surely wrong here.

As such I beg You to calm down Your tone.

Deino


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## Place Of Space

wanglaokan said:


> General Ying Zhuo said The nuclear reactor designed for carrier is not ready, so Emals won't be installed.
> 
> 拿稳中国护照， 不要轻易移民。因为中国就要牛逼了！
> 
> 
> All these weapons designed and developed is for taking back Taiwan, that how it is. That's why the Chinese army is called people liberation army, not Chinese army.

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## antonius123

I dont know whether it has been posted here or not.

It is old news. From the model it suggest the CV18 could have more than 80000 tons, with 4 catapults and 3 lift.


*Is This A Model Of China's Next Aircraft Carrier?*
By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer June 18, 2014




 
lt.cjdby.net

CV-18 Model

The CV-18 model at Dalian Naval Exhibition represents a large aircraft carrier, similar to the Nimitz class aircraft carriers, having four catapults and three aircraft elevators. The CV-18 would offer the PLAN advantages over the Liaoning aircraft carrier, including carrying more J-15 fighters, higher sortie rates and carrying JZY-01 AEW&C; aircraft to support long distance air combat.

Photos of a potential new Chinese aircraft carrier class have surfaced this month at the Dalian Naval Exhibition Center. The photos depict a large carrier that would give China the type of large strike carrier capability currently possessed only by the US Navy.




 
lt.cjdby.net

Lijian UCAV Model

High profile Chinese military projects, like the Lijian stealth UCAV, have appeared in model form at official and semi-official exhibitions. This Lijian UCAV model was seen in a September 2011 airshow, while the Lijian's maiden flight occurred two years later in November 2013.

The strongest possible caveat must be added that this model could be unofficial, including even the work of Chinese military enthusiasts. However, Chinese military projects, like the J-31 stealth fighter, PLZ-05 self propelled howitzer, Lijian drone and YJ-12 supersonic anti-ship missile, have a history of impromptu debuts as models at arms shows and military exhibitions. In addition, the presence of PLA officers at the exhibit's launch is notable. Finally, if it is just a speculative concept, the model is ironically then rather conservative in its depiction of the carrier’s potential air wings, since it excludes more speculative elements like J-31 stealth fighters and Lijian stealth unmanned combat aerial vehicles. Additionally, given that the likely launch date of CV-18 is in the mid 2020s, a lot of details about the actual carrier could change between 2014 and 2025, such as sensor outfit, self defense weapons, aircraft complement and catapult/aircraft elevator locations.




 
lt.cjdby.net

CV-18 Air Wing

As represented, the CV-18 has catapults to launch J-15 fighters with heavier payloads and dedicated AEW&C; airplanes, compared to the Liaoning. In the background, one can also see the reflection of the model.

At the very least, it provides a sense of Chinese planning concepts for the future. Compared to the Lianoing (CV-16), the hull number of this new carrier is 18, which suggests that this carrier would be China's second indigenous carrier, and the first of a truly new design (number 17 is believed to be a modified domestic variant of the Liaoning). The carrier is shown to have three aircraft elevators, two on the starboard (right) side and one on the port (left) side, and four catapults (possibly electromagnetic) to rapidly launch aircraft. This would give it a size and scale at least in the 80,000 ton range. Photos show that the model, presumably of the future "002" class, carrying J-15 fighters, Z-18 anti-submarine warfare helicopters and most interestingly, a JZY-01 airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft. While the JZY-01 would provide a carrier air wing with strong airspace detection capabilities, its large weight precludes from being launched off the ski ramp equipped Liaoning. CV-18 is depicted as defended against missile attacks by Type 1030 Close In Weapons Systems (CIWS) and HQ-10 short ranged surface to air missiles; presumably its escorting destroyers and frigates would take the lion's share of air defense and ASW duties, pointing again to the building Chinese naval task force model of operations. As with the US Navy, Chinese carriers would be at the center of a formidable naval task force, including modern stealthy cruisers, destroyers and attack submarines geared to hunt air, surface, submarine and missile threats.




 
lt.cjdby.net

CV-18 Bridge

The CV-18 model shows a three level bridge island, which suggests the presence of large command facilities for commanding the carrier air wing, escorting destroyers, cruisers and submarines, and unmanned platforms.

The CV-18 model's island is located on the starboard side, with three levels of windows, suggesting a three level bridge and command structure. The domes on top of the island would most likely house datalink communication and radar arrays. There is no information on the propulsion, but the choices are likely to be either nuclear propulsion or integrated electric propulsion (IEP) powered by gas turbines. Nuclear propulsion would provide CV-18 with a un-refuelled global range of operations at over 30 knots per hour, while IEP would provide extra electricity for direct energy weapons like lasers.




 
cflac.org.cn

Naval Exhibit Launch

A PLA officer is present at the launch of the Zhongshan Naval Exhibit in Dalian, China. The exhibit with PLAN sponsorship was launched to help promote a real estate project; the aircraft and warship models, including CV-18, are afterwards expected to be permanently installed in a PLAN museum.

Discussions on Chinese sites explore how the CV-18 could be launched in the mid 2020s, assuming that its predecessor, CV-17, is launched in the 2017-2019 timeframe. Going by construction of other similarly sized aircraft carriers, the construction of the CV-18 would take around 5-8 years, from the cutting of the first steel to completing the electronics and catapult outfitting. Linked with other reports on Chinese naval construction, the models on display at the exhibit reinforce the trend that by the mid-2020s, China could have game-changing naval capabilities.

http://www.popsci.com/blog-network/eastern-arsenal/model-chinas-next-aircraft-carrier

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## grey boy 2



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## Deino

*Again ! In English please or at least an English summary !*

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## Daniel808

grey boy 2 said:


>



Dalian Shipyard?
I am little more confuse now.


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## nang2

Daniel808 said:


> Dalian Shipyard?
> I am little more confuse now.


You should be. Those Chinese words and the picture were just from some pure speculations in CJDBY forum. http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2352917-1-1.html

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## ChineseTiger1986

Daniel808 said:


> Dalian Shipyard?
> I am little more confuse now.



There is some theory suggests that JNCX will go with the EMALS version of the Type 002, while DL will start the original Type 002 as presumed.

http://www.cssc.net.cn/component_news/news_detail.php?id=24549

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## Bussard Ramjet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> There is some theory suggests that JNCX will go with the EMALS version of the Type 002, while DL will start the original Type 002 as presumed.
> 
> http://www.cssc.net.cn/component_news/news_detail.php?id=24549



But then how can they both be Type 002?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Bussard Ramjet said:


> But then how can they both be Type 002?



Because it is not nuclear powered.

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## Daniel808

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> There is some theory suggests that JNCX will go with the EMALS version of the Type 002, while DL will start the original Type 002 as presumed.
> 
> http://www.cssc.net.cn/component_news/news_detail.php?id=24549



So, there is 2 Type 002 AC under Construction in China right now?
with 1 in Jiangan Shipyard (EMALS Version), and another 1 in Dalian Shipyard (Steam Catapult Version).


*
Attaching Importance to Leading Personnel and Strengthening Innovation Drive 
China Shipbuilding Group to hire Chinese Academy of Engineering Ma Weiming concurrently in the Shipbuilding Science and Technology Committee, vice chairman *
Dong Qiang, Wu Qiang attended the appointment ceremony
Source: "China Ship News" 2016-12-28








December 27, China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation held Science and Technology Committee, vice chairman of the appointment ceremony, hired Chinese Academy of Engineering Ma Weiming concurrently vice chairman of the CSSC Science and Technology Commission. China Shipbuilding Group, party secretary, chairman of Dong Qiang attended the ceremony and issued a letter of appointment for Ma Weiming.

At the ceremony, Wu Qiang, deputy party secretary and general manager of China Shipbuilding Group, read out the Decision on Establishment of the Scientific and Technical Committee of China State Shipbuilding Corporation and the Appointment Document.

Deputy secretary of the party group, Deputy General Manager Wu Yongjie presided over the ceremony. Mr. Chen Zhili, Secretary General of CST, Mr. Xu Miao, Assistant Director of the General Manager and Director of the Ministry of Science and Technology, attended the ceremony.

China Shipbuilding Industry Office, Planning and Development Department, Department of Management and Management, Ministry of Defense Industry, Ministry of Marine Industry, Ministry of Power Industry, Ministry of Emerging Industries, China Shipbuilding Industry System Engineering Research Institute and China Shipbuilding Industry Technology and Economy Research Institute. , China Shipbuilding Science and Technology Commission in Beijing, chairman of the special committee to participate in the ceremony.

Ma Weiming said he was honored to serve as vice chairman of the CSSC Science and Technology Committee. He will work conscientiously to fulfill his duties and strive to translate his research achievements into an important force to promote the innovation and development of the CSSC and actively advise on CSSC's reform and development.

Dong Qiang, Academician Ma Weiming has been on the development of CSSC Group to give support and help to express my sincere thanks. He pointed out that Academician Ma Weiming is an outstanding scientist in the field of electrical and electronic engineering.

He has been awarded many national and military scientific and technological progress awards and made outstanding contributions to China's national defense and army modernization. Since 2013, China Shipbuilding Group hired Ma Weiming Academician as the Group of double-employed academicians, senior technical adviser, electrical engineering chief expert since the two sides maintained a good cooperative relationship, scientific research and innovation has achieved remarkable results.

Hiring Ma Weiming Academician of the China Shipbuilding Group, vice chairman of the Science and Technology Committee, the CSSC Group to better fulfill the first responsibility to protect the military, and further promote the integration of military and civilian development, continued to strengthen innovation drive is important. In the future, the departments and members of China Shipbuilding Group Headquarters will strengthen communication with Academician Ma Weiming and his team.

In view of the modernization of naval equipment modernization and the deep integration of military and civilian development, he earnestly listened to the valuable opinions and suggestions of Academician Ma Weiming and promoted the research level of CSSC. To a new level, to build a leading domestic, world-class innovative marine equipment group to provide strong support. (Wang Zhihui Lin Mengkai)

http://www.cssc.net.cn/component_news/news_detail.php?id=24549

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## ChineseTiger1986

Daniel808 said:


> So, there is 2 Type 002 AC under Construction in China right now?
> with 1 in Jiangan Shipyard (EMALS Version), and another 1 in Dalian Shipyard (Steam Catapult Version).
> 
> 
> *
> Attaching Importance to Leading Personnel and Strengthening Innovation Drive
> China Shipbuilding Group to hire Chinese Academy of Engineering Ma Weiming concurrently in the Shipbuilding Science and Technology Committee, vice chairman *
> Dong Qiang, Wu Qiang attended the appointment ceremony
> Source: "China Ship News" 2016-12-28
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> December 27, China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation held Science and Technology Committee, vice chairman of the appointment ceremony, hired Chinese Academy of Engineering Ma Weiming concurrently vice chairman of the CSSC Science and Technology Commission. China Shipbuilding Group, party secretary, chairman of Dong Qiang attended the ceremony and issued a letter of appointment for Ma Weiming.
> 
> At the ceremony, Wu Qiang, deputy party secretary and general manager of China Shipbuilding Group, read out the Decision on Establishment of the Scientific and Technical Committee of China State Shipbuilding Corporation and the Appointment Document.
> 
> Deputy secretary of the party group, Deputy General Manager Wu Yongjie presided over the ceremony. Mr. Chen Zhili, Secretary General of CST, Mr. Xu Miao, Assistant Director of the General Manager and Director of the Ministry of Science and Technology, attended the ceremony.
> 
> China Shipbuilding Industry Office, Planning and Development Department, Department of Management and Management, Ministry of Defense Industry, Ministry of Marine Industry, Ministry of Power Industry, Ministry of Emerging Industries, China Shipbuilding Industry System Engineering Research Institute and China Shipbuilding Industry Technology and Economy Research Institute. , China Shipbuilding Science and Technology Commission in Beijing, chairman of the special committee to participate in the ceremony.
> 
> Ma Weiming said he was honored to serve as vice chairman of the CSSC Science and Technology Committee. He will work conscientiously to fulfill his duties and strive to translate his research achievements into an important force to promote the innovation and development of the CSSC and actively advise on CSSC's reform and development.
> 
> Dong Qiang, Academician Ma Weiming has been on the development of CSSC Group to give support and help to express my sincere thanks. He pointed out that Academician Ma Weiming is an outstanding scientist in the field of electrical and electronic engineering.
> 
> He has been awarded many national and military scientific and technological progress awards and made outstanding contributions to China's national defense and army modernization. Since 2013, China Shipbuilding Group hired Ma Weiming Academician as the Group of double-employed academicians, senior technical adviser, electrical engineering chief expert since the two sides maintained a good cooperative relationship, scientific research and innovation has achieved remarkable results.
> 
> Hiring Ma Weiming Academician of the China Shipbuilding Group, vice chairman of the Science and Technology Committee, the CSSC Group to better fulfill the first responsibility to protect the military, and further promote the integration of military and civilian development, continued to strengthen innovation drive is important. In the future, the departments and members of China Shipbuilding Group Headquarters will strengthen communication with Academician Ma Weiming and his team.
> 
> In view of the modernization of naval equipment modernization and the deep integration of military and civilian development, he earnestly listened to the valuable opinions and suggestions of Academician Ma Weiming and promoted the research level of CSSC. To a new level, to build a leading domestic, world-class innovative marine equipment group to provide strong support. (Wang Zhihui Lin Mengkai)
> 
> http://www.cssc.net.cn/component_news/news_detail.php?id=24549



Maybe, since Professor Ma is heading to CSSC, so there is a chance for an EMALS version of the Type 002.

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## ChineseTiger1986

China's advanced arresting gear.

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## grey boy 2

Rumors that installation of "EMALS" has been going on the "002" 
近日，中国002型航母最新舰体分段照片疑似出现了安装电磁弹射器的外观特征，引发热议。值得一提的是，致力于研发中国电磁弹射技术的海军电力工程专家马伟明日前再获嘉奖，外界普遍认为，中国国产003型航母很可能是核动力航母，采用电磁弹射已成定局，此次网曝照片显示，电磁弹射器或有望“提前上舰”，装备002型航母。

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> Rumors that installation of "EMALS" has been going on the "002"
> 近日，中国002型航母最新舰体分段照片疑似出现了安装电磁弹射器的外观特征，引发热议。值得一提的是，致力于研发中国电磁弹射技术的海军电力工程专家马伟明日前再获嘉奖，外界普遍认为，中国国产003型航母很可能是核动力航母，采用电磁弹射已成定局，此次网曝照片显示，电磁弹射器或有望“提前上舰”，装备002型航母。



Oh come on ! This is not a rumour but simply an uneducated discussion from fan-boys and dreamers: Even if the true 002 will get such a catapult, so far nothing real has been seen and this is only a demo-module, well known since some years. In fact a sub-scale module.

Deino

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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> Oh come on ! This is not a rumour but simply an uneducated discussion from fan-boys and dreamers: Even if the true 002 will get such a catapult, so far nothing real has been seen and this is only a demo-module, well known since some years. In fact a sub-scale module.
> 
> Deino


Westerner's mind is straight, and We Chinese are sinuous. It's a sub scale module only, but it means we shall have some experiments on those EMALS. If you gonna achieve something big, you shall have the gut to dream. We also have lots of plan to build something out of the box.

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## 帅的一匹

GiantPanda said:


> It is not running away from justice. You are providing a service for non-Chinese. They come here for the latest Chinese news and rumors (which more often than not turns out true as we both know.) If they do not appreciate it then don't help them.
> 
> But it is your choice and I respect that, Grey.


There are lot of sections you can hang around, I like to post in PAF/BD/India section.

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## Deino

@grey boy 2 & @GiantPanda, ... just an open word.

To admit; I can understand that it might sometimes be hard for some here to accept another opinion esp. if its a foreigner's one; some might even think I'm not too much open-minded, but to post any random Internet claim - like the post "Rumors that installation of "EMALS" has been going on the "002" 

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/type-002-aircraft-carrier-news-discussions.416166/page-19#ixzz4XG9Dvu5o

and showing images + a Chinese text that are clearly not the Type 002, then I cannot understand Your reply.

Why is it so impossible to simply admit that this is not yet 002 and if even read what I replied You would have noticed that it was not meant as an insult but simply a correction.

As such, all I beg is to calm down, to read properly what others wrote and to give an English translation, since this can exclude these misunderstandings. Please take note, that not each and every critical request, not every correction of blatant errors is an offence ... 

Or am I wrong ??? 

Deino


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## ahojunk

Purported picture of full-size prototype of electromagnetic catapult.


********

_If this is not the correct thread to post, let me know._
.

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## ChineseTiger1986

A drone testing on the EMALS.

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## Pepsi Cola

China will not adopt highly advanced electromagnetic take-off technology on its second domestically built aircraft carrier but instead rely on a conventional system, naval experts say.

TheType 002 vessel *–* the country’s third aircraft carrier after the Liaoning and the Type 001A carrier under construction in Dalian – would be equipped with at least three conventional steam launch catapults, a source close to the navy told the _South China Morning Post._

But it would be the first Chinese aircraft carrier to use this type of launch system.

“There are still some technical problems applying nuclear propulsion to the carrier platform, so the Type 002 will still use steam catapults,” the source said.









“But this is still a breakthrough compared with Liaoning and the Type 001A carrier, both of which are equipped with ski-jump ramps.

“It will [also] take a couple of years for the newest carrier to enter full service after its launch, as it takes two or three years to train carrier-based pilots.”

Professor Jin Yinan, a former director of the strategic research institute at the People’s Liberation Army National Defence University, said in December that construction of the Type 002 started at the Jiangnan Changxingdao shipyard in Shanghai in March 2015.

China’s new aircraft carrier to be based near South China Sea, as tensions with Washington rise

Hong Kong-based military expert Liang Guoliang said China planned to produce two Type 002 carriers, each with a displacement of 85,000 tonnes, which would make them the biggest Chinese carriers. The Liaoning is about 55,000 tonnes while the Type 001A will be 70,000 tonnes.

The first Type 002 carrier was expected to be launched in about 2021, Liang added.

There had been speculation that the Type 002 could be a nuclear-powered vessel with an electromagnetic take-off system.










But Li Jie, a Beijing-based military expert, said it would be impossible to develop a completely new generation carrier in just a few years.

“Different systems need different technology, technicians and pilots,” Li said.

“For example, the Type 001A is scheduled to be launched later this year, but it will take several more years to develop as part of a real battle group before entering full service in the navy.”

Meanwhile, Andrei Chang, founder of military magazine _Kanwa Asian Defence,_ said the Type 001A was “purely a copycat” of the Varyag, which was laid down as a Kuznetsov-class carrier for the Soviet navy in the 1970s, before it was sold to China and refurbished as the Liaoning.

Li said that while the appearance of the Type 001A may be similar to the Liaoning, its layout, interior equipment and overall operational concept would be more advanced than the Liaoning.

Li said one difference was the Type 001’s take-off ramp slope of 12 degrees, compared with 14 degrees for the Liaoning.

CHINA’S AIRCRAFT CARRIER DISPLAY HARKS BACK TO ‘GUNBOAT DIPLOMACY’

The 12-degree ramp would help fighters shorten their take-off distance, save fuel and increase their weapons payload while strengthening the ship’s structure,Li said.

“There are different operational concepts between the Liaoning and Type 001A,” he said.

“Based on the Varyag design, the Liaoning was designedwith both weapons systems and aircraft in an equally important layout, but the Type 001A has learned from US carriers to focus on how to make aircraft on board more functional.”

According to Li, certain weapons were excluded from the Type 001A platform to allow more carrier-based J-15 parking. The hanger was also being expanded to allow the new carrier to carry between six and eight more J-15 fighter jets than the Liaoning.

“The control tower island on the deck was shrunk 10 per cent, which allow the deck to dock more helicopters and fixed-wing early-warning aircraft,” he said, adding that four weapons sponsons, or projections, on the aft deck had been dismantled.

S-band radars with four large antennae would be installed on the top of control tower, he said.

The system is China’s most advanced and is capable of covering a 360-degree search field to scout dozens of targets in the air and at sea.

Four HQ-10 short-range air defence missiles systems with 24 tubes would also deployed on the new ship, Li said.

Beijing’s second aircraft carrier ‘takes shape’ after two years, nine months of construction

This weapons system is also mounted on the navy’s most advanced Type 052D destroyers and Type 056 frigates.

However, Macau-based military observerAntony Wong Dong said the country’s limited production capacity for carrier-based J-15s might hinder the 001A entering full service on schedule.

“The Liaoning was designed to carry up to one aviation regiment, or 24 carrier-based fighters.

“But the vessel so far has got only about 20 carrier-based J-15 because the [state-owned] Aeroengine Corporation has not yet developed a reliable replacement for the Russian-produced AL-31 models.

“It’s likely that the Type 001A will face the same problems as the Liaoning.”

-SCMP 

Interesting read.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The catapult takeoff version of the J-15 is using the Taihang engine.

Since the AL-31 is more suitable to takeoff from the ski-jump than the WS-10, so this so-called expert from Macau is wrong.

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## 帅的一匹

Type 002 will use catapult and conventional power. China still lags behind USA a lot, we need to work harder. General Ying Zhuo said the newly developed Nuclear reactor is not ready yet. It's a stop gap. Nuclear reactor is a must for EMALS.

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## samsara

wanglaokan said:


> Type 002 will use catapult and conventional power. *China still lags behind USA a lot, we need to work harder.* General Ying Zhuo said the newly developed Nuclear reactor is not ready yet. It's a stop gap. Nuclear reactor is a must for EMALS.



In some fields they are true. In some other fields, the opposite are also true. But generally speaking, there are still many things to learn and catch up.

Nevertheless, complacency is being ignorant, and is part of the failure.

*Pride cometh before a fall! 骄兵必败!
落后就要挨打，这是中国人民从屡遭外来侵略的悲惨经历中得出的刻骨铭心的教训。*

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## english_man

If work began on Carrier 002 in March 2015, i presume that was for the first steel cutting for the first modules. Can we therefore expect to see evidence of completed modules later this year.......or will it take longer?
Plus, if the displacement figure of 80,000 tonnes is correct, this will make 002 the largest conventional carrier in the world, even larger than the UK's 2 QE class carriers!

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## Bussard Ramjet

Deino said:


> Oh come on ! This is not a rumour but simply an uneducated discussion from fan-boys and dreamers: Even if the true 002 will get such a catapult, so far nothing real has been seen and this is only a demo-module, well known since some years. In fact a sub-scale module.
> 
> Deino




I can't understand why these fan boys can't be rational. 

I just hope the actual leadership OF PLAN is more mature.



wanglaokan said:


> Type 002 will use catapult and conventional power. China still lags behind USA a lot, we need to work harder. General Ying Zhuo said the newly developed Nuclear reactor is not ready yet. It's a stop gap. Nuclear reactor is a must for EMALS.




What is the tonnage of Shandong? 

Is it bigger or smaller than Liaoning?

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## 帅的一匹

Bussard Ramjet said:


> I can't understand why these fan boys can't be rational.
> 
> I just hope the actual leadership OF PLAN is more mature.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the tonnage of Shandong?
> 
> Is it bigger or smaller than Liaoning?


Same or even little bit smaller in tonnage. But the configuration setup will be more compact. can hold one or two more J15 on the flying deck.

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## Bussard Ramjet

wanglaokan said:


> Same or even little bit smaller in tonnage. But the configuration setup will be more compact. can hold one or two more J15 on the flying deck.



But I am hearing tonnage of 70000 tones, in both the article mentioned just before. 

Wouldn't that make it bigger than Liaoning?


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## 帅的一匹

Bussard Ramjet said:


> But I am hearing tonnage of 70000 tones, in both the article mentioned just before.
> 
> Wouldn't that make it bigger than Liaoning?


65000 tons


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## Deino

Bussard Ramjet said:


> But I am hearing tonnage of 70000 tones, in both the article mentioned just before.
> 
> Wouldn't that make it bigger than Liaoning?



To admit I would not rate this a reliable report and once reading the words "Meanwhile, *Andrei Chang*, founder of military magazine _*Kanwa Asian Defence*,_" I stopped reading.

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## Deino

Via SDF/"Higgle":

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/pl...lopment-news-thread.t8048/page-51#post-439605



> Another leak posted today, I'm not sure how trustworthy this is, but if it turns out to be true, it'll be big news indeed.
> 
> A naval officer was giving a presentation at a school for marine engineering in Wuhan a few days ago, as a guest speaker. When asked about what type of catapults the 002 will use, he answered "electromagnetic" without hesitation.
> 
> The source had a photograph to support this claim.
> 
> Make of this what you will...
> 
> Original source:
> http://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2364495

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## ChineseTiger1986

The J-15B is now on the ongoing training of the land based EMALS since 2016.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The J-15B is now on the ongoing training of the land based EMALS since 2016.
> 
> View attachment 379418




Nice, but I thought its designation is J-15T or J-15A ??


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## Mugwop

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> A drone testing on the EMALS.
> 
> View attachment 376338


Which drone is that?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Nice, but I thought its designation is J-15T or J-15A ??



The J-15 with the WS-10H, since the AL-31F version is better for the ski-jump.



Mugwop said:


> Which drone is that?



Not sure the exact model, but definitely a light one.

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## ChineseTiger1986

This is the J-15 for the EMALS trial.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

*China building 3rd aircraft carrier*

According to Chinese experts, China is on course to build 5-6 aircraft carriers, a move considered by rest of the world as China’s move to fortify its claims in disputed South China Sea and dominate larger Indian Ocean region

CHINA is building a third aircraft carrier based on American models as it seeks to fortify its claims in the disputed South China Sea and dominate the larger Indian Ocean region to realise its blue water aspirations.

Chinese experts said, China is on course to build 5-6 aircraft carriers. While the first aircraft carrier, Liaoning, is a refitted Soviet-era ship, the second is being built on the same model with more advanced facilities and is likely to enter service in 2020.

The latest carrier, under construction at Shanghai, is based on US models, state-run ‘Global Times’ reported on Tuesday.

Based on information released by Chinese Defence Ministry, the second Type 001A carrier being built at the north-east Dalian port uses the ski-jump technology for aircraft to take off, like the first carrier Liaoning rather than a more advanced catapult technology used by American carriers. The second aircraft carrier is expected to have a displacement of 50,000 tonnes.

China is looking into catapult technology for the third Type 002 carrier being built in Shanghai, the daily quoted Li Jie, a naval military expert, as saying.

“In other words, 002 is entirely different from Liaoning (001) and 001A, and it will look like a US aircraft carrier rather than a Russian one,” Li added.

Official Chinese media have earlier reported about possibility of a third carrier but it is the first time they have announced that it was being built.

Most advanced carriers use Electromagnetic Catapult System to launch fighter jets, but China is also testing steam catapults, Li said.

“In order to protect China’s territories and overseas interests, China needs two carrier strike groups in the West Pacific Ocean and two in the Indian Ocean. So we need at least five to six aircraft carriers,” Yin Zhuo, a senior researcher at the PLA Navy Equipment Research Centre, said.

Chinese media has often highlighted the construction of aircraft carriers as the US deployed aircraft carriers in the disputed South China Sea challenging Beijing’s claims.


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## samsara

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> *China building 3rd aircraft carrier*
> 
> According to Chinese experts, China is on course to build 5-6 aircraft carriers, a move considered by rest of the world as China’s move to fortify its claims in disputed South China Sea and dominate larger Indian Ocean region
> 
> CHINA is building a third aircraft carrier based on American models as it seeks to fortify its claims in the disputed South China Sea and dominate the larger Indian Ocean region to realise its blue water aspirations.
> 
> Chinese experts said, China is on course to build 5-6 aircraft carriers. While the first aircraft carrier, Liaoning, is a refitted Soviet-era ship, the second is being built on the same model with more advanced facilities and is likely to enter service in 2020.
> 
> The latest carrier, under construction at Shanghai, is based on US models, state-run ‘Global Times’ reported on Tuesday.
> 
> Based on information released by Chinese Defence Ministry, the second Type 001A carrier being built at the north-east Dalian port uses the ski-jump technology for aircraft to take off, like the first carrier Liaoning rather than a more advanced catapult technology used by American carriers. The second aircraft carrier is expected to have a displacement of 50,000 tonnes.
> 
> China is looking into catapult technology for the third Type 002 carrier being built in Shanghai, the daily quoted Li Jie, a naval military expert, as saying.
> 
> “In other words, 002 is entirely different from Liaoning (001) and 001A, and it will look like a US aircraft carrier rather than a Russian one,” Li added.
> 
> Official Chinese media have earlier reported about possibility of a third carrier but it is the first time they have announced that it was being built.
> 
> Most advanced carriers use Electromagnetic Catapult System to launch fighter jets, but China is also testing steam catapults, Li said.
> 
> “In order to protect China’s territories and overseas interests, China needs two carrier strike groups in the West Pacific Ocean and two in the Indian Ocean. So we need at least five to six aircraft carriers,” Yin Zhuo, a senior researcher at the PLA Navy Equipment Research Centre, said.
> 
> Chinese media has often highlighted the construction of aircraft carriers as the US deployed aircraft carriers in the disputed South China Sea challenging Beijing’s claims.


Source: a* news feed from PTI - Press Trust of India*, the largest news agency in India

China building 3rd aircraft carrier

_Indeed all the published articles do mention the author's name (reporter): K J M Varma and PTI as the source._

By K J M Varma, BEIJING, Feb 21, 2017
(link: everywhere on Indian publications)

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## ChineseTiger1986

China's EMALS is by far more advanced than its American counterpart.

The American EMALS has only been tested with a rate of 1 failures out 600 tests so far, and I do remember there was an article in last year pointed out it was 1 out 400.

China's EMALS is 1 out of thousands times at least.

http://www.guancha.cn/military-affairs/2017_03_06_397353.shtml

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## gambit

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China's EMALS is by far more advanced than its American counterpart.


A claim that is dubious at best.

The US Navy have been operating the steam catapult system for decades. We are good with it in peace and war times. So even if we grant the generosity of the Chinese claim, how would that make the Chinese aircraft carrier operations superior ? None.


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## ChineseTiger1986

gambit said:


> A claim that is dubious at best.
> 
> The US Navy have been operating the steam catapult system for decades. We are good with it in peace and war times. So even if we grant the generosity of the Chinese claim, how would that make the Chinese aircraft carrier operations superior ? None.



lol, I knew the typical China hater naysayer like you is going to flood this thread.

The steam catapult is not related to the EMALS at all, it is two different technologies without any hereditary relationship. China has already ditched the steam catapult in favor of the EMALS.

Whether you like or not, because the genius Professor Pan, China was the first country who launched the quantum satellite, not USA. Now because of Professor Ma, China has been gifted with a far more advanced and efficient EMALS.

The US has now tried to build several dysfunctional Ford class carriers won't help them to regain the ground on China. The CVN-78 hasn't even passed any sea trial test a month prior the commission. That's clearly a sign that indicates this ship is in deep trouble. Without solving the faulty design of the CVN-78, its successor ships are still going to be anchored in the dock just like the current CVN-78.

China is soon going to build the Type 003 which is way larger and more advanced than the CVN-78 class with a dual shipyard. That's more than twice of the US per rate.

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## HannibalBarca

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> lol, I knew the typical China hater naysayer like you is going to flood this thread.
> 
> The steam catapult is not related to the EMALS at all, it is two different technologies without any hereditary relationship. China has already ditched the steam catapult in favor of the EMALS.
> 
> Whether you like or not, because the genius Professor Pan, China was the first country who launched the quantum satellite, not USA. Now because of Professor Ma, China has been gifted with a far more advanced and efficient EMALS.
> 
> The US has now tried to build several dysfunctional Ford class carriers won't help them to regain the ground on China. The CVN-78 hasn't even passed any sea trial test a month prior commission. That's clearly a sign that indicates this ship is in deep trouble. Without solving the faulty design of the CVN-78, its successor ships are still going to be anchored in the dock just like the current CVN-78.
> 
> China is soon going to the Type 003 which is way larger and more advanced than the CVN-78 class with a dual shipyard. That's more than twice of the US per rate.



got some data sheet of TYpe02?


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## ChineseTiger1986

HannibalBarca said:


> got some data sheet of TYpe02?



It fully displaces close to 90,000 tons with four functional EMALS catapults, two on the bow and two on the angled flight deck. It is also conventionally powered.

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## gambit

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The steam catapult is not related to the EMALS at all, it is two different technologies without any hereditary relationship.


Did I say the two were related ? 

If Chinese aircraft carriers have EMALS and the US remains with the tried and trued steam catapult, do you have any hard data to support even the idea that the Chinese aircraft carrier would be more operationally potent than the American ?

That is the gist of my post that you ain't gots the smarts to understand.


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## ChineseTiger1986

gambit said:


> Did I say the two were related ?
> 
> If Chinese aircraft carriers have EMALS and the US remains with the tried and trued steam catapult, do you have any hard data to support even the idea that the Chinese aircraft carrier would be more operationally potent than the American ?
> 
> That is the gist of my post that you ain't gots the smarts to understand.



We don't care if the US is trying to claim to be more advanced in the steam catapult domain.

Now everyone starts from scratch from the completely new EMALS.

China has tested more on the land than the US, and the CVN-78 is still dysfunctional so far. Even it does start to launch the aircrafts, it is still using an inferior EMALS, nuff said.

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## gambit

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We don't care if the US is trying to claim to be more advanced in the steam catapult domain.


That is not what I have been asking...

So let me ask -- again -- for the benefits of the silent readers out there...

Do *YOU* have any hard data to support even the idea that a Chinese aircraft carrier equipped with EMALS is going to be more operationally potent than the American aircraft carrier with the tried and trued steam catapult ?

Keep in mind that we have been operating aircraft carriers in terms of quantity and time than your China have. For this ship, we are the battle hardened and scarred since WW II while China is still in diapers with the Liaoning.


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## ChineseTiger1986

gambit said:


> That is not what I have been asking...
> 
> So let me ask -- again -- for the benefits of the silent readers out there...
> 
> Do *YOU* have any hard data to support even the idea that a Chinese aircraft carrier equipped with EMALS is going to be more operationally potent than the American aircraft carrier with the tried and trued steam catapult ?
> 
> Keep in mind that we have been operating aircraft carriers in terms of quantity and time than your China have. For this ship, we are the battle hardened and scarred since WW II while China is still in diapers with the Liaoning.



Who cares about the steam catapult? It is going to be replaced by the EMALS in the near future.

As long as China is leading in the EMALS, the future belongs to China.

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## gambit

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Who cares about the steam catapult? It is going to be replaced by the EMALS in the near future.


Let me ask again...

Do *YOU* have any hard data to support even the idea that a Chinese aircraft carrier equipped with EMALS is going to be more operationally potent than the American aircraft carrier with the tried and trued steam catapult ?

Why is that question so hard to understand ? You live in the West. You are proficient in English.


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## ChineseTiger1986

gambit said:


> Let me ask again...
> 
> Do *YOU* have any hard data to support even the idea that a Chinese aircraft carrier equipped with EMALS is going to be more operationally potent than the American aircraft carrier with the tried and trued steam catapult ?
> 
> Why is that question so hard to understand ? You live in the West. You are proficient in English.



Theoretically, the EMALS has much greater efficiency to launch the aircrafts than the steam catapult. When the future Chinese aircraft carriers become more mature, it will have greater efficiency than the US Nimitz class without any doubt.

You can keep in denial, but it is not going to change the fact that China is de facto the first country who truly masters the EMALS technology.

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## gambit

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Theoretically, the EMALS has much greater efficiency to launch the aircrafts than the steam catapult. When the future Chinese aircraft carriers become more mature, it will have greater efficiency than the US Nimitz class without any doubt.
> 
> You can keep in denial, but it is not going to change the fact that China is de facto the first country who truly masters the EMALS technology.


Theoretically...

Spoken by someone who never had the misfortune of having his theory destroyed by the real world.

Do you really think the troubles we have with our ships is something unprecedented ? What contribution to naval military power have your China contributed within the last 300 yrs ? Zilch.

Why did the battleship gone away ? Did your China have anything to do with that retirement ? None whatsoever.

Why does the current generation of warships have one, maybe two, guns on deck ? Did your China have anything to do with that evolution ? None whatsoever.

Do I need to go on ?


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## ChineseTiger1986

gambit said:


> Do you really think the troubles we have with our ships is something unprecedented ? What contribution to naval military power have your China contributed within the last 300 yrs ? Zilch.



China is on the course of coming back.

And you should ask what your motherland Vietnam will be contributing in the future. And I am sure it will be zilch in the next 300 years.

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## gambit

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> And you should ask what your motherland Vietnam will be contributing in the future. And I am sure it will be zilch in the next 300 years.


At least I contributed to the US, what have you done for China and Canada ? You abandoned China and now you are mooching off Canada.


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## ChineseTiger1986

gambit said:


> At least I contributed to the US, what have you done for China and Canada ? You abandoned China and now you are mooching off Canada.



Well, Trump's folks want a pure white America. MAGA is just the token of Make American White Again.

When they finish dealing with illegals and other immigrants, they will start to purge on non-white folks like you.

I can immediately pack my stuff and go back to China if Canada falls to the hand of these folks, while you can't even move back to Vietnam because Vietcong is going to persecute anti-communist people like you. So your life will be still more deplorable than mine.

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## gambit

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Well, Trump's folks want a pure white America. MAGA is just the token of Make American White Again.
> 
> When they finish dealing with illegals and other immigrants, they will start to purge on non-white folks like you.
> 
> I can immediately pack my stuff and go back to China if Canada falls to the hand of these folks, while you can't even move back to Vietnam because Vietcong is going to persecute anti-communist people like you. So your life will be still more deplorable than mine.


You are no different from the other PDF Chinese who resorts to crass racism when he cannot sustain his arguments.

You said that China is the 'master' of the EMALS technology. Prove it. Go beyond the words of a professor. Show US how many Chinese aircraft carriers with EMALS that are operational and combat ready on the open seas.


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## ChineseTiger1986

gambit said:


> You are no different from the other PDF Chinese who resorts to crass racism when he cannot sustain his arguments.
> 
> You said that China is the 'master' of the EMALS technology. Prove it. Go beyond the words of a professor. Show US how many Chinese aircraft carriers with EMALS that are operational and combat ready on the open seas.



@Deino

It was Gambit who first started the off-topics derailing when he was incapable of defending his own arguments.

You gotta do something here, he first started to target the country, then attacked other people personally.

Don't give me infraction just because I refuted back.

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## gambit

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> @Deino
> 
> It was Gambit who first started the off-topics derailing when he was incapable of defending his own arguments.
> 
> You gotta do something here, he first started to target the country, then attacked other people personally.
> 
> Don't give me infraction just because I refuted back.


Bullshit.

You started it here...

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/type...-news-discussions.416166/page-22#post-9271384

I understand that the Chinese member in the admin staff favors his fellow Chinese and that I fully expect to be negatively treated. But this is for the readers out there. It is *YOU* who made race an issue in this.


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## jhungary

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China has tested more on the land than the US, and the CVN-78 is still dysfunctional so far. Even it does start to launch the aircrafts, it is still using an inferior EMALS, nuff said.



Again, where do you get these "insider" information?

CVN-78 is still in operational lockdown, unless you or whoever make this claim are in the inner circle and have been invited to one of these thing, look at it and inspected it, and at the same time, the same person have to be able to know or understand how Chinese EMALS works.

To claim one is inferior than the other, you must have to have detail knowledge of how both system works. Which is nearly impossible. Now, I don't know if the Chinese treated these type of information like toilet paper and hand it out to everyone? Northrop Grumman (The owner of Newsport News ship yard) don't do that, I cannot access their file even I hold TS/SCI clearence. Their information are pipe down on SCIF. UNless you are telling me, that person claim Chinese EMALS is superior (which still does not have a known working prototype at of this moment) have access to NG facilities and phyiscal inspected the CVN-78 EMAL system, then what you are saying amount to a pile of rubbish.

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## kuge

jhungary said:


> Again, where do you get these "insider" information?
> 
> CVN-78 is still in operational lockdown, unless you or whoever make this claim are in the inner circle and have been invited to one of these thing, look at it and inspected it, and at the same time, the same person have to be able to know or understand how Chinese EMALS works.
> 
> To claim one is inferior than the other, you must have to have detail knowledge of how both system works. Which is nearly impossible. Now, I don't know if the Chinese treated these type of information like toilet paper and hand it out to everyone? Northrop Grumman (The owner of Newsport News ship yard) don't do that, I cannot access their file even I hold TS/SCI clearence. Their information are pipe down on SCIF. UNless you are telling me, that person claim Chinese EMALS is superior (which still does not have a known working prototype at of this moment) have access to NG facilities and phyiscal inspected the CVN-78 EMAL system, then what you are saying amount to a pile of rubbish.


if China could hack to steal f22, f35 blue prints as many claim then China must have done that to US' emal blue print too for comparison... lol


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## Keel

The PLA's EMALs test. China's 3rd aircraft carrier will be installed with it

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## Deino

Guys ... can You both calm down please and leave Your personal accusations on the one side and taking any critics as an insult or attack on the other?

This statement is surely not meant as a proof that China's catapult technology has already proven superior than the US' and even less in operational use, since there is no operational EMALS in CHina, anyway following the reports, it seems as if they are at least confident enough that during their tests it achieved a rate of success better or equal to the US systems that in fact faces difficulties.

The final testimony - and that even the biggest enthusiasts or fans cannot and wont deny - will be the operational use and here the Chinese Navy surely knows that it still lack years of expertise and experience they won't catch up easily.

Quite interesting my publisher had a meeting with the Chinese military attaché in Vienna and they were also speaking about their progress in carrier aviation and he openly admitted that they are practicing, practicing and practicing the hard way to learn and gain and that they surely know that the almost 70-years of experience the USN has cannot be catched up over night. Therefore they are practicing, practicing and practicing even more and they know that it will take time.
However he admitted that the progress achieved in recent years is promising enough to be confident that the technology will be mature and advanced enough to be comparable (or even better) with the latest US technology.

Deino

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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> Guys ... can You both calm down please and leave Your personal accusations on the one side and taking any critics as an insult or attack on the other?
> 
> This statement is surely not meant as a proof that China's catapult technology has already proven superior than the US' and even less in operational use, since there is no operational EMALS in CHina, anyway following the reports, it seems as if they are at least confident enough that during their tests it achieved a rate of success better or equal to the US systems that in fact faces difficulties.
> 
> The final testimony - and that even the biggest enthusiasts or fans cannot and wont deny - will be the operational use and here the Chinese Navy surely knows that it still lack years of expertise and experience they won't catch up easily.
> 
> Quite interesting my publisher had a meeting with the Chinese military attaché in Vienna and they were also speaking about their progress in carrier aviation and he openly admitted that they are practicing, practicing and practicing the hard way to learn and gain and that they surely know that the almost 70-years of experience the USN has cannot be catched up over night. Therefore they are practicing, practicing and practicing even more and they know that it will take time.
> However he admitted that the progress achieved in recent years is promising enough to be confident that the technology will be mature and advanced enough to be comparable (or even better) with the latest US technology.
> 
> Deino


We lack a nuclear reactor, that's all we lack. Some more patience, we will pull it off next few years. China is doomed to challenge USA's supremacy on this planet, it can't be stopped. China is the first Country kicked US army's a$$ In Korea after World War II. China has too many talents and resources, all we need to do is buying time.

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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> We lack a nuclear reactor, that's all we lack. Some more patience, we will pull it off next few years. China is doomed to challenge USA's supremacy on this planet, it can't be stopped. China is the first Country kicked US army's a$$ In Korea after World War II. China has too many talents and resources, all we need to do is buying time.




Honestly ... that's probably exactly that attitude that some guys like Gambit are criticising or mocking about: This is highly likely if the current trend will continue, but far from sure.

As such, claims "CHina is already superior in EMALS-technology" are plain stupid and not even anyone in the PLAN says so since they are all fully aware that CHina so far does not have a single operational catapult, not one working under different conditions day and night since years ... only the operational day-to-day-reliability proves if a certain design is better, more advanced than another one.

Otherwise it is like comparing a proven serial-system with one at an advanced stage of conception on CAD, maybe in mock-up form and claiming the new one is superior.


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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> Honestly ... that's probably exactly that attitude that some guys like Gambit are criticising or mocking about: This is highly likely if the current trend will continue, but far from sure.
> 
> As such, claims "CHina is already superior in EMALS-technology" are plain stupid and not even anyone in the PLAN says so since they are all fully aware that CHina so far does not have a single operational catapult, not one working under different conditions day and night since years ... only the operational day-to-day-reliability proves if a certain design is better, more advanced than another one.
> 
> Otherwise it is like comparing a proven serial-system with one at an advanced stage of conception on CAD, maybe in mock-up form and claiming the new one is superior.


I'm very confident and optimistic about the Chinese EMALS development. Please don't use the insulting word Like " plain stupid", please remember you are a moderator. As to who is real stupid we will see in the future.

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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> I'm very confident and optimistic about the Chinese EMALS development. Please don't use the insulting word Like " plain stupid", please remember you are a moderator. As to who is real stupid we will see in the future.




Agreed, and it was not as an offence, but comparing a naval system that is probably older but mature since decades, a navy that has experiences since decades with a prototype system that is just working since a few months - even if reliable - and then telling the PLAN is more advanced in its EMALS system that is stupid.

Again and please don't get me wrong, how much advanced a system is, can only be judged after a longer period of use, in operational use under adverse conditions, and THIS final testimony has the Chinese EMALS yet to prove. 
The fact that on paper and during these early tests it is more promising is not really the point.

So in conclusion You are correct: the future will tell and I'm indeed confident but as a nature-scientist at this stage and with the current experience available I would be very, very careful to come to such a strong conclusion.
Deino

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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> Agreed, and it was not as an offence, but comparing a naval system that is probably older but mature since decades, a navy that has experiences since decades with a prototype system that is just working since a few months - even if reliable - and then telling the PLAN is more advanced in its EMALS system that is stupid.
> 
> Again and please don't get me wrong, how much advanced a system is, can only be judged after a longer period of use, in operational use under adverse conditions, and THIS final testimony has the Chinese EMALS yet to prove.
> The fact that on paper and during these early tests it is more promising is not really the point.
> 
> So in conclusion You are correct: the future will tell and I'm indeed confident but as a nature-scientist at this stage and with the current experience available I would be very, very careful to come to such a strong conclusion.
> Deino


Deino. I hope one day German could get strong again. not in Nazi way, but a gloried German under Bismark. I hope you will support China rise.

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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> Deino. I hope one day German could get strong again. not in Nazi way, but a gloried German under Bismark. I hope you will support China rise.




Yes I do support China's way; especially as an utmost political counterweight to the US.
Concerning Germany, I think it's fine right now. We are already strong again, esp. our economy. There's no need to be strong again in the military. We surely could do a lot more - esp. in terms of international engagement - and even more to stand responsible for the things of our past, but IMO the future lies in a greater European cooperation and not again in nationalistic "I go my own way" tendencies. I see some heavy times for the UK following the Brexit, I have fear in mind of the latest developments in Hungary, Poland, the Netherlands and France ... and in Germany I can only hope that these right-wing tendencies will be only a brief episode.

Deino

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## j20blackdragon

Deino said:


> As such, claims "CHina is already superior in EMALS-technology" are plain stupid *and not even anyone in the PLAN says so* since they are all fully aware that CHina so far does not have a single operational catapult,



Actually, the PLAN is saying it (or at least implying it). Article from 2015.

http://eng.mod.gov.cn/DefenseNews/2015-03/10/content_4574056.htm

And the PLAN is saying it again.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...-the-us-in-electromagnetic-technology.481861/

Ma Weiming is not some random, irrelevant scientist. Google his name and do some research. I am not here to take sides in this debate. I am simply putting the facts out there.

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## Deino

j20blackdragon said:


> Actually, the PLAN is saying it (or at least implying it). Article from 2015.
> 
> http://eng.mod.gov.cn/DefenseNews/2015-03/10/content_4574056.htm
> 
> And the PLAN is saying it again.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...-the-us-in-electromagnetic-technology.481861/
> 
> Ma Weiming is not some random, irrelevant scientist. Google his name and do some research. I am not here to take sides in this debate. I am simply putting the facts out there.



I know who he is but You seem to misquote him:



> Navy expert: China's electromagnetic launch technology no inferior to America



That post does not imply it is better and that the Chinese system; he noted it is not inferior which is a difference.

Also ...



> ...that China is indisputable tech leader in electromagnetic technology



simply means, the technology is probably more advanced, has a greater potential or reliability in tests, but that does not mean their prototype system is better than an operational system.

Otherwise it is or would be stupid: You simply cannot compare an already established working reliable operational system with a concept and tell that You are already better ! No true scientist or engineer would be that arrogant.


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## Title123

gambit said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> You started it here...
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/type...-news-discussions.416166/page-22#post-9271384
> 
> I understand that the Chinese member in the admin staff favors his fellow Chinese and that I fully expect to be negatively treated. But this is for the readers out there. It is *YOU* who made race an issue in this.


I visit this topic for China news but find you idiot mention that waste my time

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## j20blackdragon

Deino said:


> I know who he is but You seem to misquote him:
> 
> That post does not imply it is better and that the Chinese system; he noted it is not inferior which is a difference.



Where is the misquote?

Direct quote from the article:

_Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, inventor of China's electromagnetic catapult and specialist in electrical engineering, pointed out that China's catapult-assisted take-off technology for the carrier-borne aircraft has no problem at all and has been proved successful in various repeated tests. He emphasized that China's catapult-assisted take-off technology in hand is no inferior to that of America, *and is even more advanced*._

http://eng.mod.gov.cn/DefenseNews/2015-03/10/content_4574056.htm

Here's a Chinese language article for extra confirmation. You translate it yourself.

http://news.ifeng.com/a/20150309/43301854_0.shtml



Deino said:


> No true scientist or engineer would be that arrogant.



Ma Weiming is a scientist/engineer and he just said it. In fact, he is much more than just a run-of-the-mill scientist. He is considered a national treasure in China. You want to put up your resume against his?

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## Deino

j20blackdragon said:


> ....
> Ma Weiming is a scientist/engineer and he just said it. In fact, he is much more than just a run-of-the-mill scientist. He is considered a national treasure in China. You want to put up your resume against his?




Not sure why we discuss this at all regardless what he said - esp. since we don't know WHY - and why the news-agency posted this, but when my son comes to me with a brilliant sketch or model of a concept car and tells me he surpassed already technology-wise my own car, he must be WRONG.
As such I can understand his pride and the future prospect that this technology is not behind but still anyway as long there is no Chinese carrier operational with such a system, as long as this has not proven its reliability during years of service even under adverse conditions, as long all that has not happened, all further claims can only be seen as pure hubris.

Again, don't take this as an insult or offence: that test-stand can probably be superior technology-wise but to say Chinese EMALSs *IS ALREADY* superior - and that's the point; not what *WILL* or *COULD* be in a few years - is either naïve, arrogant or stupid and from the talk I know (besides newspaper-propaganda) the person responsible for the development of these systems know that quite well (even if not in the public).

Deino


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## j20blackdragon

Deino said:


> Not sure why we discuss this at all regardless what he said - esp. since we don't know WHY - and why the news-agency posted this, but when my son comes to me with a brilliant sketch or model of a concept car and tells me he surpassed already technology-wise my own car, he must be WRONG.
> As such I can understand his pride and the future prospect that this technology is not behind but still anyway as long there is no Chinese carrier operational with such a system, as long as this has not proven its reliability during years of service even under adverse conditions, as long all that has not happened, all further claims can only be seen as pure hubris.
> 
> Again, don't take this as an insult or offence: that test-stand can probably be superior technology-wise but to say Chinese EMALSs *IS ALREADY* superior - and that's the point; not what *WILL* or *COULD* be in a few years - is either naïve, arrogant or stupid and from the talk I know (besides newspaper-propaganda) the person responsible for the development of these systems know that quite well (even if not in the public).
> 
> Deino



You posted two paragraphs filled with your opinion only. However, Ma Weiming's direct statements have not been discredited or debunked. The "national-treasure-class" scientist made his statements directly to a reporter. His words were not taken out of context.

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## Deino

And if he would say the sky is pink, would you simply believe him without doubt ? Would the sky be pink only due to his statement?


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## j20blackdragon

Deino said:


> And if he would say the sky is pink, would you simply believe him without doubt ? Would the sky be pink only due to his statement?



The assertion that the sky is pink can be disproven by looking up at the color of the sky. However, Ma Weiming's claim regarding the EMALS cannot be disproven so easily. Therefore, we are still left with the fact that he made the statements. He has never retracted his statements. In fact, he continues to say it again and again.

The burden of proof is on Ma Weiming himself. If you want more information, you should set up an interview with him.

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## Deino

j20blackdragon said:


> The assertion that the sky is pink can be disproven by looking up at the color of the sky. However, Ma Weiming's claim regarding the EMALS cannot be disproven so easily. Therefore, we are still left with the fact that he made the statements. He has never retracted his statements. In fact, he continues to say it again and again.
> 
> The burden of proof is on Ma Weiming himself. If you want more information, you should set up an interview with him.




I think I should end this discussion here and we should agree to disagree. IMO the difference is plain and simple our different perception and as such definition on "what is more advanced" ?I ... but I'm sure time will tell.

Deino

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## 帅的一匹

What is the progress of domestics nuclear reactor? I think it's the only hindrance of EMALS taking place.


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## gambit

j20blackdragon said:


> The assertion that the sky is pink can be disproven by looking up at the color of the sky. However, Ma Weiming's claim regarding the EMALS cannot be disproven so easily. Therefore, we are still left with the fact that he made the statements. He has never retracted his statements. In fact, he continues to say it again and again.
> 
> *The burden of proof is on Ma Weiming himself.* If you want more information, you should set up an interview with him.


If you insists that the burden of proof is upon someone else, then you have no business taking his claim as true. You should exercise doubt like the rest of us. But since you believe Ma and you are evangelizing his claim, then you equally share the burden of proof.

Christians tells you about their God that He is real. You insists that they prove it one way or another before you convert. See the comparison ?

If Ma's claim cannot be disproved, then neither can it be proved. The only way to prove that China's mastery of the EMALS is superior to the Americans is to actually have a working aircraft carrier using it. Not only that, the system must be used under combat tempo. Not in combat, but in combat *TEMPO*.

Just in case you do not what the word 'tempo' means...


MUSIC
the speed at which a passage of music is or should be played.
synonyms: speed, cadence, rhythm, beat, time, pulse;

*the rate or speed of motion or activity; pace*.
You cannot simulate that on land because the system is supposed to be used at sea.

The Chinese aircraft carrier that is equipped with EMALS must prove that it can launche aircrafts at a faster pace than the American steam system. Not only that, since different classes of aircrafts have different take off weight, the Chinese EMALS must prove that it can adapt to those differences faster than the American steam system.

When will we see this ?


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## ChineseTiger1986

In4ser said:


> If Chinese really wanted to it could simply transplant its nuclear reactor design on the 093/095 SSNs like the French did for its carrier but the Charles DuGaulle has been plagued by technical problems dealing with its nuclear powerplant.
> 
> However, I haven't heard any substantial information nuclear reactor implementation regarding CVN-02, though I think it may be possibility that they're taking their time and may want to use a navalization of its ACP-100S multipurpose modular reactors for its carrier.



China has independently developed the shipborne reactor apart from the nuclear submarines, since the Charles de Gaulle was a valuable lesson for us to learn from it.

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## j20blackdragon

gambit said:


> If you insists that the burden of proof is upon someone else, then you have no business taking his claim as true. You should exercise doubt like the rest of us. But since you believe Ma and you are evangelizing his claim, then you equally share the burden of proof.
> 
> Christians tells you about their God that He is real. You insists that they prove it one way or another before you convert. See the comparison ?
> 
> If Ma's claim cannot be disproved, then neither can it be proved. The only way to prove that China's mastery of the EMALS is superior to the Americans is to actually have a working aircraft carrier using it. Not only that, the system must be used under combat tempo. Not in combat, but in combat *TEMPO*.
> 
> Just in case you do not what the word 'tempo' means...
> 
> 
> MUSIC
> the speed at which a passage of music is or should be played.
> synonyms: speed, cadence, rhythm, beat, time, pulse;
> 
> *the rate or speed of motion or activity; pace*.
> You cannot simulate that on land because the system is supposed to be used at sea.
> 
> The Chinese aircraft carrier that is equipped with EMALS must prove that it can launche aircrafts at a faster pace than the American steam system. Not only that, since different classes of aircrafts have different take off weight, the Chinese EMALS must prove that it can adapt to those differences faster than the American steam system.
> 
> When will we see this ?



The burden of proof is on the person making an assertion or proposition. I've done no such thing in this thread. I am merely reporting what someone else said in the same way a journalist would.

The one thing I can prove is that Ma Weiming is considered a "national-treasure-class" scientist. I assume the man is aware of the scientific method and is responsible enough to have evidence before making a statement of fact. On the other hand, you can't expect Ma Weiming to divulge classified informaton concerning the Chinese EMALS to a reporter. Thus we are left with only his current statements.

On a side note, another example of a Chinese "national-treasure-class" scientist would be this founder of NASA JPL.






Hopefully NASA JPL wasn't founded by a liar and a conman.

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## samsara

j20blackdragon said:


> The burden of proof is on the person making an assertion or proposition. I've done no such thing in this thread. I am merely reporting what someone else said in the same way a journalist would.
> 
> The one thing I can prove is that Ma Weiming is considered a "national-treasure-class" scientist. I assume the man is aware of the scientific method and is responsible enough to have evidence before making a statement of fact. On the other hand, you can't expect Ma Weiming to divulge classified informaton concerning the Chinese EMALS to a reporter. Thus we are left with only his current statements.
> 
> On a side note, another example of a Chinese "national-treasure-class" scientist would be this founder of NASA JPL.
> View attachment 383005
> 
> 
> Hopefully NASA JPL wasn't founded by a liar and a conman.


There's a good BIOPIC of Qian Xuesen 钱学森 (or Hsue-Shen Tsien as he's more widely known in the Western publications), released in 2012, previously this hard-coded CN-EN bilingual movie can be found in youtube but now all HQ ones are gone  luckily the torrent keeps a good copy at even higher resolution (4.36 GB). Just search for its hash code: *269D8BEF56F10D3D066EBE33832BDF51BA1C790D*

Witnessing the dynamics of China's aerospace today brings a good remembrance of this great scientist (in fact Mr. Qian was one of the greatest scientists in the world in the 20th century). China owes this man a lot for its great achievements in rocketry and aerospace!

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## jkroo

Professor Qian was a genius who was the founder of space/rockets/satelites/missiles technologies of China including the abroad institute.

His efforts were still there and effect the HGV developments of China. Show your respects! Guys.

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## gambit

j20blackdragon said:


> I assume the man is aware of the scientific method and is responsible enough to have evidence before making a statement of fact.


And I will assume that Herr Ma is smart enough to know that the ultimate and final test is the one where the widget operates *UNRESTRAINED* in its environment.



j20blackdragon said:


> On the other hand, you can't expect Ma Weiming to divulge classified informaton concerning the Chinese EMALS to a reporter. Thus we are left with only his current statements.


You do not have to tell me this, after all, I once held a classified information clearance level. Even so, see my above statement regarding final proof.


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## samsara

gambit said:


> And I will assume that Herr Ma is smart enough to know that the ultimate and final test is the one where the widget operates *UNRESTRAINED* in its environment.
> 
> 
> You do not have to tell me this, after all, *I once held a classified information clearance level.* Even so, see my above statement regarding final proof.


*@gambit* - *HOW* are we -- here at PDF -- supposed to know that you truly held such clearance level at once? 
I wonder whether there is *any proof to attest your claim.*

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## 52051

According to Sina news, China plan to build 10 or more aircraft carriers, the first batch will be 6 aircraft carriers, including conventinal powered and nuclear powered ones.

According PLA major general Yin Zhuo, there are at least 4 major ship building corp in China can be used to build CVs, the two ship yards in Shanghai and Dalian along can build 2 CVs, 2 large Landing Attack ship and 8 DDGs at the same time, so the capability is there.

http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/jssd/2017-03-13/doc-ifychhuq4220077.shtml

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## samsara

Some members in PDF keep on reminding all of us that the USA has the longest experience in building up and operating the aircraft carriers, if not mistaken *for 70 years or so*... and this long tenure also affects many aspect incl. the material science and so on....

*One will have to ask objectively if the entire 70-year long or so is really relevant nowadays?*

IMO I think *much possibly just the last 10 years or even shorter period is what truly relevant* in view of the rapid technological progresses! This kind of thinking is applicable across all fields not only the aircraft carrier matters in particular or military aspects in general. China only needs to focus on the latest developments within the last decade or even less, and for sure not the entire period involving the many obsolete things today.

Or does anyone here assume that China (or Russia) really needs *another 70-years* to level up the experiences in constructing and operating its aircraft carrier fleet vis-à-vis the USA because the USA already started up about 70 years ago? Then while they're chasing in future the USA will be keeping on moving to create a permanent lead just because it started first... 

*Right it takes some time to catch up and get used... but the 70-year benchmark is definitely a myth rather than a substance!  LOL*

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## lcloo

Indeed well said. It is just like saying if China has 2000 years experience with gun powder, do others need 2000 years to catch up with China?

Of course not.

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## 帅的一匹

samsara said:


> Some members in PDF keep on reminding all of us that the USA has the longest experience in building up and operating the aircraft carriers, if not mistaken *for 70 years or so*... and this long tenure also affects many aspect incl. the material science and so on....
> 
> *One will have to ask objectively if the entire 70-year long or so is really relevant nowadays?*
> 
> IMO I think *much possibly just the last 10 years or even shorter period is what truly relevant* in view of the rapid technological progresses! This kind of thinking is applicable across all fields not only the aircraft carrier matters in particular or military aspects in general. China only needs to focus on the latest developments within the last decade or even less, and for sure not the entire period involving the many obsolete things today.
> 
> Or does anyone here assume that China (or Russia) really needs *another 70-years* to level up the experiences in constructing and operating its aircraft carrier fleet vis-à-vis the USA because the USA already started up about 70 years ago? Then while they're chasing in future the USA will be keeping on moving to create a permanent lead just because it started first...
> 
> *Right it takes some time to catch up and get used... but the 70-year benchmark is definitely a myth rather than a substance!  LOL*


At most time of 70 years, they are wasting long period repeating same things. All we need is technology breakthrough. After 70 years they have EMALS and we have too. Maybe experience of combat deployment still lag behind.

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## Akasa

Update: it seems that the Chinese Navy is leaning more towards the J-20 as their next-gen carrier-borne fighter than the FC-31.


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## 帅的一匹

SinoSoldier said:


> Update: it seems that the Chinese Navy is leaning more towards the J-20 as their next-gen carrier-borne fighter than the FC-31.


J20 is too big for a carrier

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## Akasa

wanglaokan said:


> J20 is too big for a carrier



It's smaller than the J-15.

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## 帅的一匹

SinoSoldier said:


> It's smaller than the J-15.


Then what's the purpose of developing FC31?

Even USA can't stand the huge cost of F22 operation, why do you think China can make it all J20?

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## Akasa

wanglaokan said:


> Then what's the purpose of developing FC31?
> 
> Even USA can't stand the huge cost of F22 operation, why do you think China can make it all J20?



The FC-31 was an attempt by SAC/601 to grab a piece of the PLAAF/PLANAF market pie after SAC's own bid for the J-XX program was rejected. The FC-31 program was never funded by the military.


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## samsara

*Can China leapfrog the US in the scramble for the world’s best aircraft carrier?*

China’s jet launch system for next carrier ‘better than US design’, top military engineer claims

PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 15 March, 2017, 11:40pm
UPDATED : Thursday, 16 March, 2017, 10:59am

China’s systems to launch and catch carrier-based aircraft are more advanced than those designed for the new generation of US supercarriers, according to a Chinese expert in the technology.

*Rear Admiral Ma Weiming*, a top engineer working on the project, said on the sidelines of the National People’s Congress on Monday that China had made breakthroughs in its advanced arresting gear (AAG) system designed to retrieve aircraft at sea, while the US had stumbled.

“The Gerald Ford cancelled its AAG and reverted to its original [arresting wire] system. We have no such problem,” he said, referring to the US’ new class of aircraft carrier.

He also said China’s electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS) was more advanced than comparable US technology.

“We have long overcome [all technical difficulties in EMALS]. I have already moved on from this [area of research and development],” he said.

Saying he was just a scientific researcher, Ma declined to say when his advanced technologies would be installed on China’s homegrown carriers.






_Rear Admiral Ma Weiming 马伟明_

Ma’s remarks come as China moves ahead with its carrier construction programme. Its first domestically built aircraft carrier, the Type 001A, is nearing completion and is expected to be launched in the first half of this year.

Construction of the second one, Type 002, is also under way.

An earlier report by the _South China Morning Post _said China would not adopt the highly advanced EMALS technology on the Type 002 but instead rely on a conventional system.

Beijing-based naval expert Li Jie said Ma had made “a certain advances” in AAG technology, compared with the US.

Macau-based military observer Antony Wong Dong said the US AAG engineers had underestimated the difficulty of developing the technology and China may have been able to take note of this to make progress.

“Ma’s team .... may have learned lessons from their US counterparts, and made some breakthrough on AAG development,” Wong said.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...ina-steams-ahead-carrier-based-jet-launch-and

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## 帅的一匹

UKBengali said:


> China will end up with a carrier force as strong or even stronger than the US Navy.


China's newly design of electromagnetic arresting gear is only 1/3th dimension of USA's, and is 70% lighter than its USA counterpart. Means we can expect a EMALS on non-nuclear powered carrier. General Ma Wei Ming is a genius!
https://view.inews.qq.com/a/MIL2017032901351003

The new China arresting cable will be made of carbon fiber.

出来混不是为了证明自己有多了不起，而是证明我不比别人差！好样的马伟明！

We need another 20 years to take back our throne in Asia.

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## Deino

Daniel808 said:


> *Interview with Dr.Ma Weiming*
> 
> Dr.Ma : Our IEP tech is world-leading, we use MVDC, America still using MVAC which is 1st gen tech, they just start pre-research in MVDC.
> 
> Credit to : @Xinfengcao
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's just wasting your time to respond Mr.Fake Phd.
> 
> He get busted many times in other thread. Lol



To admit I don't understand this attitude ??? Why do You bash him only for hist critics instead of arguing but even more why do You tend to believe everything that hypes anything withing looking to the arguments ??

The main point is not to criticize Mr. Ma, his achievements nor his knowledge, but such a statement is plain stupid and not even Mr. Ma would say something like this or can You explain me how he should know the mass, dimensions and specifications of the US-system in order to say ours is "1/3th dimension of USA's, and is 70% lighter than its USA counterpart" It is plain impossible unless he has information that are indeed strictly top-secret.

And if he has such information it would be even more interesting to know where he got them ?

As such this attitude of "ohh, there's someone criticizing our top-engineers, so that is an insult I immediately have to respond with bashing back" without plain and simply thinking is plain and simple stupid unless You have an argument why he should know the US system ??!

Deino


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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> To admit I don't understand this attitude ??? Why do You bash him only for hist critics instead of arguing but even more why do You tend to believe everything that hypes anything withing looking to the arguments ??
> 
> The main point is not to criticize Mr. Ma, his achievements nor his knowledge, but such a statement is plain stupid and not even Mr. Ma would say something like this or can You explain me how he should know the mass, dimensions and specifications of the US-system in order to say ours is "1/3th dimension of USA's, and is 70% lighter than its USA counterpart" It is plain impossible unless he has information that are indeed strictly top-secret.
> 
> And if he has such information it would be even more interesting to know where he got them ?
> 
> As such this attitude of "ohh, there's someone criticizing our top-engineers, so that is an insult I immediately have to respond with bashing back" without plain and simply thinking is plain and simple stupid unless You have an argument why he should know the US system ??!
> 
> Deino


Maybe wire tapping or internet hacking? Or espionage.

By different set up and Configuration, he can calculate. I think any one if USA want to kill or instigate, General Ma must be in that list. There lots of Chinese Genius there, all government need to do is put them in the right position.


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## jhungary

Deino said:


> To admit I don't understand this attitude ??? Why do You bash him only for hist critics instead of arguing but even more why do You tend to believe everything that hypes anything withing looking to the arguments ??
> 
> The main point is not to criticize Mr. Ma, his achievements nor his knowledge, but such a statement is plain stupid and not even Mr. Ma would say something like this or can You explain me how he should know the mass, dimensions and specifications of the US-system in order to say ours is "1/3th dimension of USA's, and is 70% lighter than its USA counterpart" It is plain impossible unless he has information that are indeed strictly top-secret.
> 
> And if he has such information it would be even more interesting to know where he got them ?
> 
> As such this attitude of "ohh, there's someone criticizing our top-engineers, so that is an insult I immediately have to respond with bashing back" without plain and simply thinking is plain and simple stupid unless You have an argument why he should know the US system ??!
> 
> Deino



Well, next you will hear they have some sort of spying equipment or anything to go with the theory why my thingy is bigger or better than your thingy.

The base of matter is, China does not even have one successful phototype of a Working EMALS that can launch aircraft and they are not projected to have one on active carrier at least until 2022 after the Type-002, yet somehow these type of "Statement" come up over and over again. Oh well, unless these people are god of war, otherwise I would not understand these statement and how can they come to the conclusion.

Even more so when I saw comment like "They can work that out from pictures" or "They got it from Internet Espionage", they fail to understand one thing, sensitive information were NEVER put online. They have SCIF to distribute these type of Sensitive Compartmentalized Information for a reason. And it is a simply faceplam to comment like they can work that out with a picture......


----------



## jhungary

wanglaokan said:


> You got brainwashed. For Gambit, everything in USA is superior. Actually lot of western people don't care what is happening in this world. Last time a street interview in New York a female white say Korea is a city of China.
> 
> You didn't see a prototype doesn't mean it doesn't exist.



I never doubt whether or not EMALS system existed for China.

I doubt how you can tell which one is better when on one hand, there are no working prototype and the other have been tried and tested in a carrier for several years.

Set aside how you can tell from where and how these dimension that man is making coming to mind, even if he really got the dimension for some reason (espionage or some where else) being heavy and longer does not make it "worse" as I said, US Carrier launch everything from F-18F to E-2C, they can even launch a Fully Loaded C-130, while the Chinese Carrier only ever launched Fighter off their Carrier.


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## Daniel808

Deino said:


> To admit I don't understand this attitude ??? Why do You bash him only for hist critics instead of arguing but even more why do You tend to believe everything that hypes anything withing looking to the arguments ??
> 
> The main point is not to criticize Mr. Ma, his achievements nor his knowledge, but such a statement is plain stupid and not even Mr. Ma would say something like this or can You explain me how he should know the mass, dimensions and specifications of the US-system in order to say ours is "1/3th dimension of USA's, and is 70% lighter than its USA counterpart" It is plain impossible unless he has information that are indeed strictly top-secret.
> 
> And if he has such information it would be even more interesting to know where he got them ?
> 
> As such this attitude of "ohh, there's someone criticizing our top-engineers, so that is an insult I immediately have to respond with bashing back" without plain and simply thinking is plain and simple stupid unless You have an argument why he should know the US system ??!
> 
> Deino



already try.
but, typical ignorant. I bring facts and data, he bring opinion.

Then if you want to know, go to China Far east section, search thread with title u.s carrier patrol south china sea (or something like that) a couple months ago, Read that from first page until the last page !!

If you have 'Objective' view, then you will understand what I mean 
But, do you have one? @Deino just asking, don't take it as an insult, okay.
I respect you for what you have done until now, Mr Andreas.

@antonius123 @TaiShang

And post about Interview with Dr.Ma
you can see, I post the credit.
I know you frequently contact with him (Xinfeng cao) and asking many times about China Military to him.
Then you ask him, about that post. @Deino
because, I am curious too.



jhungary said:


> There is a reason why you people only ever active on Chinese and Far East Forum and Chinese Defence Forum, because outside of these two forum, you lots looks like clown with your statement and antics.
> 
> Me? I am okay for you to call me a fake PhD, even tho I am only doing a MPhil (Which I said multiple time before), you cannot do a PhD without either a Honour Year or MPhil, lol maybe you should get your fact right before trying to insult me.



Do I?
Please don't take it personally.

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## samsara

This thread is littered by the wildly heated exchange of arguments/opinions by some particular members.

Such extended exchanges have tainted this thread, making it anything but interesting... one doesn't get here to read the many personal arguments (please do it thru PM)... if there's no any *actual *news or anything of significance to post, then simply be quiet and let it be that way! Cleanliness is better than littering!

Do members here and mods agree?

If nothing to say, no need to force in, better keep it that way instead of the intense opinions of A vs B vs C... please keep those personal arguments private!

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## Deino

Daniel808 said:


> already try.
> but, typical ignorant. I bring facts and data, he bring opinion.
> 
> Then if you want to know, go to China Far east section, search thread with title u.s carrier patrol south china sea (or something like that) a couple months ago, Read that from first page until the last page !!
> 
> If you have 'Objective' view, then you will understand what I mean
> But, do you have one? @Deino just asking, don't take it as an insult, okay.
> I respect you for what you have done until now, Mr Andreas.



Thanks for Your reply and indeed I did not take it personally .. the same I hope on You.

Anyway even if I don't know Your previous issue with him, my point is simply how can Mr. Ma in all his brilliance - something no-one questions - claim things he simply cannot know ? That's plain and simply my argument.

If in such an interview he would have stated something like "by all our knowledge on the US-system, we took a different approach and ours could be lighter and

As such where are the fact, the data ?? IMO all what is stated in this interview is pure "opinion" since he cannot know the US system.

And concerning the so often demanded "who has to prove a claim?" I'm indeed surprised by the twisted logic some memberes here demonstrate:

If I say I can make Gold from Iron, then who's the one who has to prove ?? Simply me, who made that claim.

In the same way it's not the US' part or ours, who are sceptical to counter-prove that the Chinese system does not reach the promised claims but it's the duty for those, who believe in this claim.

The same is with the Chinese EM is operationally better than the US EMALS ... the J-20 already uses a +210kN WS-15 ... there is a secret Chinese space station on Mars !?? So always the same: Who has to prove a claim? IMO surely not the one who is critical especially if reasonable arguments are given.

Deino

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## Daniel808

Deino said:


> Thanks for Your reply and indeed I did not take it personally .. the same I hope on You.
> 
> Anyway even if I don't know Your previous issue with him, my point is simply how can Mr. Ma in all his brilliance - something no-one questions - claim things he simply cannot know ? That's plain and simply my argument.
> 
> If in such an interview he would have stated something like "by all our knowledge on the US-system, we took a different approach and ours could be lighter and
> 
> As such where are the fact, the data ?? IMO all what is stated in this interview is pure "opinion" since he cannot know the US system.
> 
> And concerning the so often demanded "who has to prove a claim?" I'm indeed surprised by the twisted logic some memberes here demonstrate:
> 
> If I say I can make Gold from Iron, then who's the one who has to prove ?? Simply me, who made that claim.
> 
> In the same way it's not the US' part or ours, who are sceptical to counter-prove that the Chinese system does not reach the promised claims but it's the duty for those, who believe in this claim.
> 
> The same is with the Chinese EM is operationally better than the US EMALS ... the J-20 already uses a +210kN WS-15 ... there is a secret Chinese space station on Mars !?? So always the same: Who has to prove a claim? IMO surely not the one who is critical especially if reasonable arguments are given.
> 
> Deino



Thanks for your reply too. Personally, I highly regard your works about China's Military Development.

Okay, back to topic about Dr.Ma.

In Chinese view, Dr.Ma is another Qian Xuesen.
He is genius one, no doubt for that.

Maybe if some Corporal, say something about that. I will ignore it.
But, Dr.Ma is an Admiral in PLAN and he is also a Professor and the director of Electric and Electronics Engineering Institute under the Naval Engineering University.

What he say must be have much more *'Weight' *than some ordinary expert or else.
despite, we don't know what Information he have. or what exactly he achieve in his research.

But, that's come back again to each other point of view.
I just trying to give you a view from Chinese point of view.

I think, what Dr.Ma say is about IEP (Integrated Electric Propulsion) not EMALS.


I don't have any contact with Xinfengcao, but you have. maybe, you can ask his opinion about that post.
Because we are in here, doesn't have any clue about that.

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## Title123

mix of j20 and j31 are better but should be j20 first because it is more mature and more powerfull like su35 good performance in syria war


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## Title123

Another source said that after visit his visit to see the Type 075 under construction, Vice-Admiral Shen also inspected progress on the new Type 002 aircraft carrier.

The Type 002 will be China’s third carrier, which has been under construction at the Jiangnan Changxingdao shipyard in Shanghai since March 2015.

It is expected to be launched in about 2021. from south china morning post

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## Deino

Title123 said:


> Another source said that after visit his visit to see the Type 075 under construction, Vice-Admiral Shen also inspected progress on the new Type 002 aircraft carrier.
> 
> The Type 002 will be China’s third carrier, which has been under construction at the Jiangnan Changxingdao shipyard in Shanghai since March 2015.
> 
> It is expected to be launched in about 2021. from south china morning post




Do we have any recent satellite images of Jiangnan shipyard giving any hint that the carrier has already laid down ?

I know "under construction" does not mean being laid down since pre-manufacturing of parts needs to take place often many years in advance, but as with the Type-001A i think the next mayor prof could be an empty dry-dock with these strange markings on the ground on which the carrier sits until being launched.

Remember this image nearly two years ago from March 2015 ???





This also would give us a first impression on the new carrier's dimensions.

So again ... do we have a recent image of Jiangnan's biggest drydock ??

Deino


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## Brainsucker

samsara said:


> Some members in PDF keep on reminding all of us that the USA has the longest experience in building up and operating the aircraft carriers, if not mistaken *for 70 years or so*... and this long tenure also affects many aspect incl. the material science and so on....
> 
> *One will have to ask objectively if the entire 70-year long or so is really relevant nowadays?*
> 
> IMO I think *much possibly just the last 10 years or even shorter period is what truly relevant* in view of the rapid technological progresses! This kind of thinking is applicable across all fields not only the aircraft carrier matters in particular or military aspects in general. China only needs to focus on the latest developments within the last decade or even less, and for sure not the entire period involving the many obsolete things today.
> 
> Or does anyone here assume that China (or Russia) really needs *another 70-years* to level up the experiences in constructing and operating its aircraft carrier fleet vis-à-vis the USA because the USA already started up about 70 years ago? Then while they're chasing in future the USA will be keeping on moving to create a permanent lead just because it started first...
> 
> *Right it takes some time to catch up and get used... but the 70-year benchmark is definitely a myth rather than a substance!  LOL*



Technology wise, you're right. But there is one advantage with the longer experience of Carrier development. Specially 70 years of experience in using the Carrier in military operations. It's the knowledge of how to use Carrier properly in battle. They have better knowledge in how to use Carrier in battle; while PLAN still have to learn and invent their own doctrine. Training alone won't be enough. As long as you don't have prior experience in how to use Carrier in a military operation. Because no body in the navy know what they will expected when they are engage in real battle.

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## grey boy 2

Rumors that construction of 8.5m tons class "002" has been started since 2016, cross sections expected to be unveil in 2017 【谈兵第38期】其次的未知是，002航母是否已经开始开工建设？乐观的看法认为002航母在2016年已经开工，甚至2017年中就可以看到分段合拢，但目前为止未有任何确定开工的官方消息的蛛丝马迹，也没有任何分段的卫星图片可以证实。归根到底，连在哪里建都存在争议，是否已经开始动工就更加无从确定。









http://dy.163.com/v2/article/detail/CGT6K5E60515D1P9.html

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## Deino

Some interesting information on the Type 002 vessel via SDF/"jobjed":



> Along with more information about 057/054B, fzgfzy also shared a bunch about 002.
> 
> He believes, after gather information from numerous sources, that work on the first 002 began at JNCX at the end of last year. There also could be one at Dalian but there _definitely _is one at JNCX.
> Steam vs EMALS competition has ended. EMALS was deemed superior. However, he personally hasn't heard of the navy ordering EMALS components whereas steam catapult components were ordered years ago. Steam might have won due to sheer readiness. This suggests that EMALS will not be on 002 initially but will be adopted on future ships and might be retrofitted onto 002s during their MLUs.
> He acknowledges that the PLAN commander did not visit JNCX like he did for HDZH's 075 but this is likely due to the newness of the JNCX carrier facility. The paths in the facility are still rough and the mess hall probably isn't ready either.
> Additionally, the modules possibly haven't been built up to a level that would warrant inspection by the PLAN commander.
> The displacement of the 002 is slightly less than 80,000 tonnes.



http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2377750-1-1.html

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## Deino

Hmmmm ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/848818203274772482





But wasn't the one on the left (or here on top) said to be the EMALS, the one with the J-15A and UAV being tested??






... or indeed the EMALS is the lower one, but then these reports are wrong.

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## cirr

Deino said:


> Hmmmm ...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/848818203274772482
> View attachment 388370
> 
> 
> But wasn't the one on the left (or here on top) said to be the EMALS, the one with the J-15A and UAV being tested??
> 
> View attachment 388373
> 
> 
> ... or indeed the EMALS is the lower one, but then these reports are wrong.
> 
> View attachment 388376



It is self-evident, is it not? 

It looks like the construction of two Type 002 flattops using steam catapult(knowing how conservative the PLA is) will begin within months of each other.

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## Deino

cirr said:


> It is self-evident, is it not?
> 
> It looks like the construction of two Type 002 flattops using steam catapult(knowing how conservative the PLA is) will begin within months of each other.




Would make sense; one at Shanghai and the other at Dalian, but my question was what catapult is the EMALS ??

by most report I know it was said to be the one on the left or on to, but now it seems reversed !

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## Taygibay

grey boy 2 said:


> of 8.5m tons class "002"



I'm guessing 85K tons would be enough ...
Or how do you spell _Death Star carrier_ in Mandarin?



http://thediplomat.com/2017/02/chinas-aircraft-carriers-full-steam-ahead/

For once, I'll wonder if the Diplomat didn't get it just right and back
cirr with 2 002s coming.




Are those the tracks from a new base that I missed in post #379?
They look like pictures of Huangdicun from a long time ago. Those
red hangars a bit askew and the blue building are similar.




​Read you all soon, have a great day, Tay.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

cirr said:


> It is self-evident, is it not?
> 
> It looks like the construction of two Type 002 flattops using steam catapult(knowing how conservative the PLA is) will begin within months of each other.



Of course, it is obvious and for quite some time now... all part of emerging PLAN doctorine.

Any thoughts on powertrain? Conventional or nuclear?

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## samsara

I don't read anyone here guessed earlier that China would be building up two Type-002 simultaneously 

I recall Real Admiral Yin Zhuo once said that there are at least four major ship builders / shipyards that are capable of building aircraft carrier, so not only Dalian and JNCX.

But again, do not expect China to follow the USA's footsteps in operating the twelve aircraft carriers, China simply does not have such militaristic needs even though it has quite the required resources to do so.

Nevertheless the 2025 is quite within reach

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## grey boy 2

From a reputable cjdby member: rumors that due to the "PLA reform" and under uncertain surrounding situation of China, "two 002 aircraft-carrier will be built" but so far cannot be confirm (002是不是2条还不能确定。这次军改＋国际形势的变化。航母总数有2派看法，目前没有听说定论)




http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2378234-1-1.html

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## grey boy 2

Nice CG of 002 (EMALS) version 中国电磁航母出航CG帅气！目标直指美军福特级

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## ChineseTiger1986

grey boy 2 said:


> Nice CG of 002 (EMALS) version 中国电磁航母出航CG帅气！目标直指美军福特级



The Type 002 will use J-15B instead of J-15A, because the WS-10H is more suitable for the catapult launch.

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## ahojunk

*Third China-made aircraft carrier could be nuclear-powered: expert*
(People's Daily Online) 16:15, April 14, 2017

As China's second aircraft carrier, and the country's first domestically built carrier, approaches its launch, experts predict that the third China-made carrier will see dramatic breakthroughs, such as the use of nuclear power and the capability for an electromagnetic launch.

Military expert Xu Guangyu made this forecast during an interview with BTV.

"The first domestically built carrier is likely to be like the Liaoning [China's first aircraft carrier]. It will be conventionally powered and use a ski-jump take-off, whereas the second one is likely to use a catapult take-off ... The third one, however, will benefit from major breakthroughs,and may even be nuclear-powered," Xu said.

According to Defense Ministry spokesperson Wu Qian at a briefing on March 30, the first domestically built carrier is being outfitted with equipment, and work on it is progressing smoothly.

Military experts have agreed that the independent design and manufacturing of the carrier signifies remarkable progress in China's national defense industry. While it is not the most advanced carrier in the world, it satisfies the demands of China's national condition.

"The development of Chinese aircraft carriers is a slow but steady process. From platform construction to personnel training, it's all gradual," Xu said.

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## clibra

Deino said:


> And if he would say the sky is pink, would you simply believe him without doubt ? Would the sky be pink only due to his statement?



Deino，you don't understand Chinese people. In China, for a highly respectable man，his or her words in public matter a LOT.
If one like Ma Weiming(a general, a respectable scientist, an Academician of CAE,) dare to lie or even talk big in public, this could be considered as suicide, because lie or talk big can't do any good to him and will be unveiled sooner or later which will destroy one's reputation completely, so no one want do this stupid thing.
As a top EMALS expert in this planet, Academician Ma definitely know the technical level of both countries, and he is believable and trustworthy, so I simply trust his statements. I think all Chinese members here have similar ideas.

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## yantong1980

clibra said:


> Deino，you don't understand Chinese people. In China, for a highly respectable man，his or her words in public matter a LOT.
> If one like Ma Weiming(a general, a respectable scientist, an Academician of CAE,) dare to lie or even talk big in public, this could be considered as suicide, because lie or talk big can't do any good to him and will be unveiled sooner or later which will destroy one's reputation completely, so no one want do this stupid thing.
> As a top EMALS expert in this planet, Academician Ma definitely know the technical level of both countries, and he is believable and trustworthy, so I simply trust his statements. I think all Chinese members here have similar ideas.



As I wasn't mainland Chinese, I can't say much about this, Ma perhaps can talk 'big' as top brass, but as well-known scientist it's meaning as same as shooting his own foot, his word will mean nothing anymore and he can kiss goodbye to his career. But again there's nothing best than time to tested his word.

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## ChineseToTheBone

Interesting to read that China will likely build just two conventional aircraft carriers before moving on to nuclear. I wonder if the size and the displacement of the ship will change as well.

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## beijingwalker

*What Kind of 'Major Advances' China's Third Aircraft Carrier May Feature*
MILITARY & INTELLIGENCE
14:15 16.04.2017






*As China’s second aircraft carrier is being prepared for launch in late April, experts are predicting what kind of technological breakthroughs the third China-made carrier may have.*
During an interview with BTV, a Chinese military, expert Xu Guangyu made his forecast suggesting that the third aircraft carrier may be nuclear-powered.

“The first domestically built carrier is likely to be like the Liaoning [China's first aircraft carrier]. It will be conventionally powered and use a ski-jump take-off, whereas the second one is likely to use a catapult take-off… The third one, however, will benefit from major breakthroughs and may even be nuclear-powered,” China Daily newspaper reported Xu as saying.

Experts further predict that the third China-made carrier may even have the capacity for an electromagnetic launch.


“The development of Chinese aircraft carriers is a slow but steady process. From platform construction to personnel training, it's all gradual,” Xu said.

Earlier it was reported that the second aircraft carrier which is country’s first domestically built carrier will be able to dock from 28 to 36 units of Jian-15 fighters (J-15).

The Chinese media reported that the aircraft carrier could be launched in late April 2017. According to some experts, the likely date is April 23 which is the anniversary date of the founding of the PLA Navy.

Currently, the Chinese Navy arsenal consists of the Liaoning aircraft carrier, created on the basis of the Soviet cruiser Varyag. Liaoning can base 24 J-15 fighters.

Liaoning is a Type 001 class vessel. The first carrier was rebuilt out of the Soviet aircraft cruiser Varyag in early 2000s, with the first sea trial taking place in 2011. In September 2012, Liaoning was commissioned into the PLA Navy.

In late December 2015, the Chinese Defense Ministry announced plans to construct a new Liaoning aircraft carrier built by China itself.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201704161052687537-china-third-aircraft-carrier-advances/

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## UKBengali

Nuclear powered with EMALs - as large and sophisticated as US Ford -class carriers.

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## YeBeWarned

make something like this beauty and the beast


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## WarFariX

Wuhan EMC test facility: CV 002 dual band radar

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## samsara

*Wuhan's real scale large model aircraft carrier ground test facility is under renovation, the Type 002 aircraft carrier model there is equipped with a Dual-Band Radar like the USN's latest Ford class A.C.*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/855060423325794304Compared with CVN78 FORD's dual band radar.












Via @OedoSoldier 2017.04.21

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## ahojunk

*China eyes building more aircraft carriers*
2017-04-21 10:22 | Global Times | _Editor: Li Yan_
*
Marines need to be beefed up to provide offshore support: expert*

China's military is eyeing more aircraft carriers to enhance its capabilities, experts said, as the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Daily reported the achievements of the Chinese navy since 1949.

Sunday marks the 68th anniversary of the founding of the Chinese navy, with the PLA Daily listing the navy's achievements, including escorting ships at sea, building an aircraft battle group, and joint military exercises.

As a country with an 18,000 kilometer-long coastline and vast maritime resources under its watch, China needs to build a strong navy to protect its sovereignty and maritime interests, safeguard the security of strategic maritime channels and engage in international cooperation amid mounting maritime disputes and challenging maritime safety conditions, the PLA Daily said on Thursday.

China has enhanced the battle capabilities of its aircraft carrier, with more than 10 pilots from carrier-based jet fighters and commanders getting their certificates, making China one of the few countries capable of training its own pilots for aircraft carriers, the PLA Daily report said.

"In the long run, China needs to develop its own aircraft carrier battle teams, with at least six aircraft carriers, maritime forces led by guided missile destroyers, as well as attack submarines," Xu Guangyu, a senior advisor to the China Arms Control and Disarmament Association, told the Global Times.

"It was a big step for China to enhance the fighting capability after its aircraft carrier completed a live-fire drill, conducting exercises in various regions and training in the western Pacific Ocean for the first time in 2016," read the report.

The marine corps also needs to be beefed up to around 80,000 to 100,000 to offer offshore support, or 5 percent of the PLA, he added.

These aircraft carriers will enable the PLA Navy to break through the first island chain involving South Korea, Japan, Taiwan island and the Philippines to achieve command of the sea, Xu said.

"China will build about 10 more bases for the six aircraft carriers," Xu said, adding that they can be built around countries friendly to China, such as Pakistan.

"Hopefully, China could have bases in every continent, but that depends on countries which would like to cooperate with China," Xu said.

China is close to completing its second aircraft carrier, which will begin service by 2020, China Central Television reported, citing military experts.

The PLA Daily report also said patrols to safeguard China's maritime interests have been standardized, with more than 100 patrol boats and jet fighters patrolling key areas.

.

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## Rocky rock

ahojunk said:


> "China will build about 10 more bases for the six aircraft carriers," Xu said, adding that they can be built around countries friendly to China, such as Pakistan.



Which kind of Bases Exactly means Naval Base to Handle Aircraft Carrier?


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## Oldman1

Rocky rock said:


> Which kind of Bases Exactly means Naval Base to Handle Aircraft Carrier?



Well what do you think when he said those words?
*These aircraft carriers will enable the PLA Navy to break through the first island chain involving South Korea, Japan, Taiwan island and the Philippines to achieve command of the sea, Xu said.*
*
"China will build about 10 more bases for the six aircraft carriers," Xu said, adding that they can be built around countries friendly to China, such as Pakistan.
*
*"Hopefully, China could have bases in every continent, but that depends on countries which would like to cooperate with China," Xu said.*


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## Stuttgart001

How will the "Liaoning" and "001A" be deat with , if China have nuclear-powered aircraft carriers with electromagenetic catapults in service in 10 years ?
In that situation, the carrier group of "Liaoning" or "001A" with a much weaker strength is obviously not qualified for PLAN, which is very low cost-effective, cause you have to deploy as the same escort warships and SSNBs for a carrier with ski-jump take-off capability as that with catapults.

What are PLAN going to do with the "Liaoning" and "001A" ? Does anyone think about it ?


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## yantong1980

Stuttgart001 said:


> How will the "Liaoning" and "001A" be deat with , if China have nuclear-powered aircraft carriers with electromagenetic catapults in service in 10 years ?
> In that situation, the carrier group of "Liaoning" or "001A" with a much weaker strength is obviously not qualified for PLAN, which is very low cost-effective, cause you have to deploy as the same escort warships and SSNBs for a carrier with ski-jump take-off capability as that with catapults.
> 
> What are PLAN going to do with the "Liaoning" and "001A" ? Does anyone think about it ?



That's new, I don't know about next '003' will have, but EMALS experiment still underway, don't know if it will ready according schedule. And still nothing about kind of nuclear reactor that possibly planned for next AC. So in 10 years, are you sure?
Don't forget, smaller AC mean smaller escort, till the mature AC come up, I think that what China need for now. For next story for 001, 001a after China AC mature nobody know for now, maybe for regional use only while bigger AC going global, maybe lend to 'China friend' elsewhere, but surely they will not become floating museum or floating hotel, haha.

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## dingyibvs

Stuttgart001 said:


> How will the "Liaoning" and "001A" be deat with , if China have nuclear-powered aircraft carriers with electromagenetic catapults in service in 10 years ?
> In that situation, the carrier group of "Liaoning" or "001A" with a much weaker strength is obviously not qualified for PLAN, which is very low cost-effective, cause you have to deploy as the same escort warships and SSNBs for a carrier with ski-jump take-off capability as that with catapults.
> 
> What are PLAN going to do with the "Liaoning" and "001A" ? Does anyone think about it ?



Less capable doesn't mean obsolete. My guess is that they'll probably serve mostly a fleet air defense role, and their escorts can consist of older ships (e.g. 054A, 052D, 093) while the CATOBAR carriers have much more strike capabilities and get a more advanced escort fleet (e.g. 054B, 055, 095)

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## ahojunk

In the future, I suppose the Liaoning and 001A can be used for training.

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## grey boy 2

ahojunk said:


> In the future, I suppose the Liaoning and 001A can be used for training.


I believed this two aircraft carriers should be good enough to deal with any navy in Asia for years to come

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## Bussard Ramjet

ahojunk said:


> In the future, I suppose the Liaoning and 001A can be used for training.



Not really. If the future carriers are flat deck, it will be require a totally different kind of training for pilots and crew to operate on that kind of a an aircraft carrier.

Deleted ... please no China-vs-India discussion !!


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## Stuttgart001

yantong1980 said:


> That's new, I don't know about next '003' will have, but EMALS experiment still underway, don't know if it will ready according schedule. And still nothing about kind of nuclear reactor that possibly planned for next AC. So in 10 years, are you sure?
> Don't forget, smaller AC mean smaller escort, till the mature AC come up, I think that what China need for now. For next story for 001, 001a after China AC mature nobody know for now, maybe for regional use only while bigger AC going global, maybe lend to 'China friend' elsewhere, but surely they will not become floating museum or floating hotel, haha.


Steam catapult is completely practical, and EMALS is not a big deal and would be ok in less than 5 years.
The real problem is the schedule of nuclear reactor.
If the second indigenous carrier was nuclear powered, there is a high probability that EMAL would be on board.
If not, stream catapult would definitrly be operated.

Compared to a carrier with the capability of stream catapulting take-off, "Liaoning" and "001A" is very weaker on either defense or offense .
In addition, it would be a disaster and a huge waste of money that the naval pilots should be trained for two different take-off capability.
The build cost of the carrier is much less than the cost of maintaining a CBG conprised of escort ships and SSNK and squadrons deployed.

It is reasonable and cost-effective to build a new powerful carrier for a CBG whose key strength comes from the figther jets , AWAC and EW planes on board, given the cash poured into maintaining the CBG.

"Liaoning" and "001A" are not qualified for training pilots in future,cause the jets must ski-jump take off them.

I think the only way for them is retired or sell ,after the new carriers with catapults entered service massively.

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## samsara

*Folks, please refrain self from flaming this dedicated thread about the TYPE 002 Aircraft Carrier with such silly, unconcerned posts. Some may just intentionally trash this thread with such junks. 

Trust me, it is not the wish of most readers here to click on this DEDICATED thread to read the many unrelated posts!!! 

Just open a new thread if you folks wanna carry on!*

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## grey boy 2

002 has been started in JN





http://www.fyjs.cn/thread-1864990-1-1.html

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## Keel

Another great "footprint" is stamped within the space of one month. 
Haha, this time, at sea!

Marvellous and jubilant! A lot more to come in the same or other domains!

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## samsara

China Plans to Build Fleet of Six Aircraft Carriers




_simply a handy, neat audio-visual brief to pass on the unaware mass_

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## Shotgunner51

samsara said:


> China Plans to Build Fleet of Six Aircraft Carriers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _simply a handy, neat audio-visual brief to pass on the unaware mass_


I think the development path of CV/CVN may follow that of DDG, build small quantity at each new batch (052, 051B, 052B, 051C, 052C) until it's accepted for mass production (052D, 055). So two ships in 001A (including CV-16) for a start, two ships in 002 as intermediate platform, and two (or more) in next batch as principal. Also, fast development in drone techs, space techs and other new concept shall be incorporated into 002 and future design.

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## samsara

Shotgunner51 said:


> I think the development path of CV/CVN may follow that of DDG, build small quantity at each new batch (052, 051B, 052B, 051C, 052C) until it's accepted for mass production (052D).


Yes, quite make sense knowing the Chinese typical and proven approaches in building up new, technological challenging precious stuffs. Wasting is definitely not part of the approach.

I myself much believe that China will end up will more than "mere" six CV/CVN by 2030! The unfolding time will tell...  keeping my fingers crossed!

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## samsara

*Amazingly, this is not the end but the [China's] aircraft carrier will be launched one after the other. **Next China will construct two catapulted Type 002 aircraft carriers with normal power, followed by Type 003 of nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/857081354705620992







_Prediction on Type 002 CV: 4×50,000 hp steam turbines, displacement of 70 kilotons.
Island size is reduced by 1/4 to 1/3 compared to Type 001A, comes with three steam catapults (@xinfengcao)_​

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## HannibalBarca

samsara said:


> *Amazingly, this is not the end but the [China's] aircraft carrier will be launched one after the other. **Next China will construct two catapulted Type 002 aircraft carriers with normal power, followed by Type 003 of nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/857081354705620992
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Prediction on Type 002 CV: 4×50,000 hp steam turbines, displacement of 70 kilotons.
> Island size is reduced by 1/4 to 1/3 compared to Type 001A, comes with three steam catapults (@xinfengcao)_​



So at this pace CN gonna need another Decade and + to get to US lvl. Interesting.


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## Stuttgart001

HannibalBarca said:


> So at this pace CN gonna need another Decade and + to get to US lvl. Interesting.


Maybe more .
But China has done it asap.


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## HannibalBarca

Stuttgart001 said:


> Maybe more .
> But China has done it asap.


In AC... 10-15 is doable.


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## Stuttgart001

HannibalBarca said:


> In AC... 10-15 is doable.


The key point is nuclear reactor .
Besides, everything is a piece of cake including EMLS.

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## samsara

HannibalBarca said:


> So at this pace CN gonna need another Decade and + to get to US lvl. Interesting.


Irrelevant since CN won't build CVs as many as the US... it's a well-known public secret that CN simply has no such WRC printer to facilitate that many CVs as US does. But for anything lacks of, the much cheaper DFxx will do the duties.

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## HannibalBarca

samsara said:


> Irrelevant since CN won't build CVs as many as the US... it's a well-known public secret that CN simply has no such WRC printer to facilitate that many CVs as US does. But for anything lacks of, the much cheaper DFxx will do the duties.



Wasn't speaking about the number of Ac... but tech...


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## Stuttgart001

samsara said:


> Irrelevant since CN won't build CVs as many as the US... it's a well-known public secret that CN simply has no such WRC printer to facilitate that many CVs as US does. But for anything lacks of, the much cheaper DFxx will do the duties.


I think what he means is it will take 10years for CN to get a CV equalling Ford.

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## samsara

Stuttgart001 said:


> I think what he means is it will take 10years for CN to get a CV equalling Ford.


10 YEARS is pretty long in today's world... so all I can reasonably say is just wait and see   who can see through such period??? BUT by such logic [supposed there's any] China will still lag behind in many tech fields such as aerospace, HSR, computing powers, green energy etc etc... but the reality is China does not take that long to catch up! I realize it's pretty hard for some folks to truly recognize China's speed in achieving tech advancement, in particular the military tech, which is honestly rather hard to prove... aside from its secrecy nature, who will clash to prove anything?

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## Stuttgart001

samsara said:


> 10 YEARS is pretty long in today's world... so all I can reasonably say is just wait and see   who can see through such period??? BUT by such logic [supposed there's any] China will still lag behind in many tech fields such as aerospace, HSR, computing powers, green energy etc etc... but the reality is China does not take that long to catch up! I realize it's pretty hard for some folks to truly recognize China's speed in achieving tech advancement, in particular the military tech, which is honestly rather hard to prove... aside from its secrecy nature, who will clash to prove anything?


When other people is resting, Chinese is working .
We deserve these achievements .

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## HannibalBarca

samsara said:


> 10 YEARS is pretty long in today's world... so all I can reasonably say is just wait and see   who can see through such period??? BUT by such logic [supposed there's any] China will still lag behind in many tech fields such as aerospace, HSR, computing powers, green energy etc etc... but the reality is China does not take that long to catch up! I realize it's pretty hard for some folks to truly recognize China's speed in achieving tech advancement, in particular the military tech, which is honestly rather hard to prove... aside from its secrecy nature, who will clash to prove anything?



Research and Manufacturing are on 2 separated Time Dimensions...


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## Stuttgart001

HannibalBarca said:


> Research and Manufacturing are on 2 separated Time Dimensions...


Actually, these techs related to CV are started 20 years ago .
For instance, China started to do research on EMLS as soon as US propose such a concept. 
Because of foresight and layout in advance , China could make such a progress in military field.

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## samsara

*Type 002 CV*

Three Steam Catapults to be applied
Displacement is approximately 1.4 times the corresponding volume of Liaoning CV-16 (packed with more than 80,000 tons)
The Length is longer than Liaoning's one, but less than Kitty Hawk, yet width is larger than Kitty Hawk about 7 to 8 meters
May have the deployment of 36 carrier-based aircraft
"Construction" started in Shanghai JNCX at the end of 2016 [Note: my guess, the construction here means the steel cutting as mentioned elsewhere too - corrected Deino ]






An RT by @OedoSoldier 2017.04.26

More at CN: 有关第一艘完全自研航母形态的部分研判



samsara said:


> *Amazingly, this is not the end but the [China's] aircraft carrier will be launched one after the other. **Next China will construct two catapulted Type 002 aircraft carriers with normal power, followed by Type 003 of nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/857081354705620992
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Prediction on Type 002 CV: 4×50,000 hp steam turbines, displacement of 70 kilotons.
> Island size is reduced by 1/4 to 1/3 compared to Type 001A, comes with three steam catapults (@xinfengcao)_​

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## Deino

samsara said:


> *Type 002 CV*
> ...
> Construction started in Shanghai JNCX at the end of 2016
> 
> ...



But that's the question: From all it seems this "construction start" was the cutting of first steel - an event that took place for the 001A in August 2013 - and not "lay-down" - what for 001A occurred in August March 2015 - so that given a similar time to construct we will probably see the first parts of 002 in a dock - aka after lay-down - only in about 1.5 years or mid-2018 at best.

Deino

By the way I won't mind if it will look like this...

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## sdliulangmao

呼叫众WCER，CDER，FY,HH，谁把流氓85给截图发来的？


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Deino said:


> But that's the question: From all it seems this "construction start" was the cutting of first steel - an event that took place for the 001A in August 2013 - and not "lay-down" - what for 001A occurred in August March 2015 - so that given a similar time to construct we will probably see the first parts of 002 in a dock - aka after lay-down - only in about 1.5 years or mid-2018 at best.
> 
> Deino
> 
> By the way I won't mind if it will look like this...
> 
> View attachment 393292



I believe that 002A will be another research vessal as Liaoning for many years to come after being built because manage a catapult carrier is not quite the same as ski jump carrier even there is a lot of similarity. it will take necessary time to learn all operation procedures. Especially when we will introduce AWAC and other type of aircrafts.

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## cloyce

samsara said:


> *Type 002 CV*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An RT by @OedoSoldier 2017.04.26
> 
> More at CN: 有关第一艘完全自研航母形态的部分研判


Could you please explain me what these colors mean? I'm ignorant


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## Stuttgart001

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I believe that 002A will be another research vessal as Liaoning for many years to come after being built because manage a catapult carrier is not quite the same as ski jump carrier even there is a lot of similarity. it will take necessary time to learn all operation procedures. Especially when we will introduce AWAC and other type of aircrafts.


China has its plans .
These technplogy about calapults and AWAC has been underway for many years .
The developing precedure of millitary armament is that when one generation enter service ,next generation's underway, and next-next generation's on advanced research .

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## samsara

cloyce said:


> Could you please explain me what these colors mean? I'm ignorant


No idea, the pic sees its broad light with no legend


Latest estimation for the Type 002 carrier: 3 Steam Cats, Displacement about 80kt, a bit longer than CV-16 but less the Kitty Hawk... _[though said to have a larger width, 7-8 meter wider than Kitty] _

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/857478170563444738

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## S10

According to what I can gather so far from "insiders" on Chinese forums, 002 will be conventional powered. It will have 3 steam catapults with a displacement of about 60,000 metric tons (75,000 ton full load). I doubt it will be 80,000 tons since it's going to be smaller than Kitty Hawk class.

003 will probably be a nuclear powered carrier similar in size to USS Enterprise (~90,000 ton range) with EMALS.

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## Stuttgart001

S10 said:


> According to what I can gather so far from "insiders" on Chinese forums, 002 will be conventional powered. It will have 3 steam catapults with a displacement of about 60,000 metric tons (75,000 ton full load). I doubt it will be 80,000 tons since it's going to be smaller than Kitty Hawk class.
> 
> 003 will probably be a nuclear powered carrier similar in size to USS Enterprise (~90,000 ton range) with EMALS.


That's Chinese style.


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## ChineseTiger1986

S10 said:


> According to what I can gather so far from "insiders" on Chinese forums, 002 will be conventional powered. It will have 3 steam catapults with a displacement of about 60,000 metric tons (75,000 ton full load). I doubt it will be 80,000 tons since it's going to be smaller than Kitty Hawk class.
> 
> 003 will probably be a nuclear powered carrier similar in size to USS Enterprise (~90,000 ton range) with EMALS.



According to POP3, the Type 002 will be 70,000 tonnes, while the Type 003 will be 100,000+ tonnes.

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## grey boy 2

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> According to POP3, the Type 002 will be 70,000 tonnes, while the Type 003 will be 100,000+ tonnes.


I have a feeling POP3 has a tendency to lower tonnage figures of our up coming navy ships, perhaps a good way to stop over expectation from us "fans"?

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## ChineseTiger1986

grey boy 2 said:


> I have a feeling POP3 has a tendency to lower tonnage figures of our up coming navy ships, perhaps a good way to stop over expectation from us "fans"?



He mostly used the 'normal' displacement instead of the full displacement.

However, he also stated that the Type 003 is going to displace over 100,000 tonnes in normal, then it might turn out that the Type 003 at full is even going to be heavier than the CVN-78 class.

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## yusheng

daokou says:
dalian shipyard started to build 002 or Amphibious assault ship

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## Deino

yusheng said:


> View attachment 397621
> View attachment 397616
> View attachment 397617
> 
> daokou says:
> dalian shipyard started to build 002 or Amphibious assault ship



IMO not, if You look at these part's structure - and from what I've heard in other forums - it will be a freighter or tanker, at least most likely something civil.

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## english_man

I thought the 002 Carrier was going to be built, or being built at JN shipyard (and not Dalian).
Is that true or not?

Regarding tonnage.....i too have noticed that Carriers do end up usually having a higher tonnage than the original figures quoted. I seem to remember our QE carriers were stated to be around 65,000 tonnes, but now they are quoted as being 70,000 tonnes.

BTW:- that 003 Carrier is going to be one monster of a Carrier........the Chinese have got a lot of work for themselves building a large enough naval port facility to handle such a beast.

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## yusheng

Deino said:


> IMO not, if You look at these part's structure - and from what I've heard in other forums - it will be a freighter or tanker, at least most likely something civil.


i only quoted Daokou says, he analyzed:
1, the line of parts is sharp, different from the civil ship which usually is plimmed;
2,the parts are complicated with thicker steel and grided into small lattice cells;
3, and more mysterious, these parts are made under cover which are not usually ways for civil ships.
4, Dalian ship has acquired experience of carrier making, it is a waste if they stop building carrier, and building carrier is just beginning , so very possible Dalian will do it again.
5,as PLAN plan, to 2022 there will be 4 carriers, that means Dalian must continue.

any way, just wait for months, we will see what is happening in this Dalian shipyard.

by the way, to reply English-man, the need for big ship from PLAN is upgraded, "it is very possible that China is now building two carrier, two classes at same time. "(also quoted from Daokou) 


Daokou analysis in Chinese:
疑问核心为什么又在保密的大棚子里建造？

我们都知道，全世界的民用船只在建造的过程中都是暴露在阳光下的，凡是造船要用大棚子遮起来造的那一定是因为保密的需要在造军船。造核潜艇最神秘，全世界的军事超强都有核潜艇，但是建造过程无一例外都是躲在大型的车间里，等推出来准备下水，才会有第一次裸奔，你能看见的就是个谁都能看的外形（线性）。核潜艇的噪声越低越好，而低噪声主要来自建造工艺的缜密巧妙和技术精深，有的技术诀窍是一辈子不能示人的，所以建造核潜艇都在保密制度执行的最严的大型车间里，四面八方封闭，进出出示证件，保卫人员都是认证不认人，还要刷虹膜、刷脸还有的要指纹识别，才能进出。

1,航母
最惊艳的说法是要在大连开造“另外”一艘002型航母，所谓“另外”指的是有关专家泄露2015年3月已经在上海江南厂开造了一艘002型航母，那么再在大连造002航母就是另外一艘002航母了。这在理论上也说得通，002航母是中国第一艘采用弹射起飞模式的新型航母，是采用常规动力电磁弹射起飞舰载机的航母，按照一般规律也是为了节约成本和充分利用已有的技术储备和材料资源，一般都要造两艘才合适。
还有，大连船厂（大连重工）为建造001A航母特别建造了专用的大车间和专用设备，几十台数百吨的专用设备比如钣金、卷扬、焊接、切割等都是国家宝贵的资产，不能用一回就完事了。
大连重工从改造瓦良格号的02号工程到完成001A新航母的048工程，积累了造航母的丰富经验，航母是怎么回事我们已经知道的很通透，中国现在是世界造船大国，能造航母就已经是造船强国，事实摆在那里。
说了半天，说的什么意思呢？就是中国同时开建两艘两型航母也是可能的，很可能还是必须的，按照我们目前的造船能力和造船科技水平，没有任何问题。从需求上我们也有这个需求，本次军改，人民海军将目前的两支海军陆战旅急剧的扩充为十支，这个消息侧面证实了中国海军正在急于发展和扩充远洋投送能力，同时也侧面印证了中国海军对航母的急需，时不我待，我们不能向远洋输送一支没有航母提供制空权的海军陆战队，按照这个要求，2022年前后形成4艘航母战斗群的战斗力是必须的。
如果这个判断正确，正在大连重工船坞里开建的很可能就是继上海002航母后大连开建的另外一艘002航母。
目前，上海江南厂2015年已经开造002航母，大船重工再造001A的可能性很小，最有可能的是大连重工也开造002航母，这样可以在相对短的时间点达到一共4艘两型双航母战斗群的目的，按照一般规律，中国海军要争取在2022年形成2批2型4艘航母的战斗力，如果002型航母分期在2015年和2017年开始建造，达成这个目标是可以预期的。
同时开建两型航母在世界航母史上并不是中国一家。

2、小平顶两栖攻击舰
前面说过，本次军改，人民海军将目前的两支海军陆战旅急剧的扩充为十支，这个消息侧面证实了中国海军正在急于发展和扩充远洋投送能力，而远洋投送能力最显著的标志就是网友戏称的“小平顶”两栖攻击舰.
那么，在大连重工船坞里正在组装大型模块和构件的第二种猜测就是在建造一艘“小平顶”两栖攻击舰。
海军现役少将尹卓曾经说过，中国的两栖攻击舰比外国的小航母还要大！虽然有关中国两栖攻击舰吨位的各种说法都有，但是没有人否认尹卓的这个比喻。一般认为，中国的两栖攻击舰因为与一些国家的需求不同，肯定是要造的比较大才行，原因主要是我们缺乏海外基地，必须有强大的自持力才能保证中国的两栖舰队遂行远洋部署，大就是必须的。
这样一艘两栖攻击舰至少在5万吨左右。
这样，大连重工船坞的“小平顶”基本也快赶上001A了，能造001A的这个大船坞肯定也能造两栖攻击舰。

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## GiantPanda

Consensus is Type 002 has started in Shanghai (either module construction or initial assembly.)

But there are rumors of a second Type 002 that could be built in parallel at Dalian.

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## lcloo

I still believe that the new ship being built is an LNG carrier. The photo clearly shown double bottom hull, double side wall, support structures for large spherical containers for LNG, lack of watertight bulkheads etc which fitted well with typical design of LNG carrier.

The need for double bottom amd double side hull is a safety design for LNG (Liquidified Natural Gas), to prevent fire or explosion from impact on collision.

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## ChineseTiger1986

lcloo said:


> I still believe that the new ship being built is an LNG carrier. The photo clearly shown double bottom hull, double side wall, support structures for large spherical containers for LNG, lack of watertight bulkheads etc which fitted well with typical design of LNG carrier.
> 
> The need for double bottom amd double side hull is a safety design for LNG (Liquidified Natural Gas), to prevent fire or explosion from impact on collision.



The second Type 002 will be built in a brand new shipyard in Dalian.

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## terranMarine



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## 52051

Several well informed sources from Chinese military BBS mention that, there will be 3 type-002 aircraft carriers builidng at the same time, one will be built in Dalian, one will be builit in Shanghai, and a newly added one will be be built in Huludao shipyard (which is a highly classified shipyard mainly building nuclear submarine for PLA before).

Nuclear submarines in China will also enter mass-producation phase unlike before.

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## UKBengali

52051 said:


> Several well informed sources from Chinese military BBS mention that, there will be 3 type-002 aircraft carriers builidng at the same time, one will be built in Dalian, one will be builit in Shanghai, and a newly added one will be be built in Huludao shipyard (which is a highly classified shipyard mainly building nuclear submarine for PLA before).
> 
> Nuclear submarines in China will also enter mass-producation phase unlike before.



Not surprised as China would like to match US by 2030.

There was a quote from some Chinese military leader a while back stating China's
intention to push the US back to Hawaii by 2030.

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## Oldman1

UKBengali said:


> Not surprised as China would like to match US by 2030.
> 
> There was a quote from some Chinese military leader a while back stating China's
> intention to push the US back to Hawaii by 2030.



How are they going to do that?


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## samsara

Oldman1 said:


> How are they going to do that?


By 2030 perhaps the Chinese naval force may conduct FONOPS passage routinely within the West Pacific Ocean, thus push back the USN force to cover its own mainland.

If the estimate is right, by 2030 the Chinese naval force should have at least around 350 big surface ships incl. at least six to eight CVs & CVNs plus many SSN & SSBN, many DDG of various types, 05x series and much possibly even newer & more potent destroyers also the new copter carriers... all of these ships are intended to cover the East China Sea & South China Sea as well as to exert unrestricted access to the West Pacific Ocean (as well as the Indian Ocean), passing beyond the Second Island Chain (the First Island Chain as well as the South China Sea are forgone issues by then), basically to cover China's worldwide trade interests, the clear-cut 'numero uno' economy in the world by then, in nominal value not just in PPP, but more than just on paper or balance sheet digital values, the factual real or physical development also shows its clear lead.

Therefore if China indeed really focuses its resources to build its naval forces & submarines, such outcome won't be really anything a surprise and is quite an achievable plan considering the China's trademark speed in construction as well as the stage of industrialization and installed capacity. At the end it is truly a matter of priority! Please note that each year from now on until 2030 and beyond, the technological progress achieved by China year by year will be tremendous as shown in the last decade... liken it to the multiplying effects of rolling snowball getting its momentum and becomes bigger and bigger as well as faster and faster on the way achieving its new equilibrium state!

This kind of situation does make sense that the naval force of each major powers by that time (RUS - USA - CHN) will concentrate around its own waters instead of approaching the backyard waters of the other major powers. The era of the unipolar / unipower was already gone by then.

Of course the unfolding time is the most accurate, undeniable teller of its time. So just wait and see. All of us here may still live up till 2030 and beyond to witness the world constellation by then... so is the PDF existence  

Just curious on WHO does really still believe in the "sole superpower" or unipolar world by 2030,,, please raise your hand here  don't be shy away  chance is the subcontinent India may successfully elevate itself to be the other major power or major power contender as well. By the way only a nation having vast landmass and big population supported by big economy as well as advanced science & technology level that can develop itself into the true major power! And of course having strong military to defend own sovereignty! Island nations have no chance in this regard. If any in the past, it was simply an accident in history.

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## UKBengali

samsara said:


> By 2030 perhaps the Chinese naval force may conduct FONOPS passage routinely within the West Pacific Ocean, thus push back the USN force to cover its own mainland.
> 
> If the estimate is right, by 2030 the Chinese naval force should have at least around 350 big surface ships incl. at least six to eight CVs & CVNs plus many SSN & SSBN, many DDG of various types, 05x series and much possibly even newer & more potent destroyers also the new copter carriers... all of these ships are intended to cover the East China Sea & South China Sea as well as to exert unrestricted access to the West Pacific Ocean (as well as the Indian Ocean), passing beyond the Second Island Chain (the First Island Chain as well as the South China Sea are forgone issues by then), basically to cover China's worldwide trade interests, the clear-cut 'numero uno' economy in the world by then, in nominal value not just in PPP, but more than just on paper or balance sheet digital values, the factual real or physical development also shows its clear lead.
> 
> Therefore if China indeed really focuses its resources to build its naval forces & submarines, such outcome won't be really anything a surprise and is quite an achievable plan considering the China's trademark speed in construction as well as the stage of industrialization and installed capacity. At the end it is truly a matter of priority! Please note that each year from now on until 2030 and beyond, the technological progress achieved by China year by year will be tremendous as shown in the last decade... liken it to the multiplying effects of rolling snowball getting its momentum and becomes bigger and bigger as well as faster and faster on the way achieving its new equilibrium state!
> 
> This kind of situation does make sense that the naval force of each major powers by that time (RUS - USA - CHN) will concentrate around its own waters instead of approaching the backyard waters of the other major powers. The era of the unipolar / unipower was already gone by then.
> 
> Of course the unfolding time is the most accurate, undeniable teller of its time. So just wait and see. All of us here may still live up till 2030 and beyond to witness the world constellation by then... so is the PDF existence
> 
> Just curious on WHO does really still believe in the "sole superpower" or unipolar world by 2030,,, please raise your hand here  don't be shy away  chance is the subcontinent India may successfully elevate itself to be the other major power or major power contender as well. By the way only a nation having vast landmass and big population supported by big economy as well as advanced science & technology level that can develop itself into the true major power! And of course having strong military to defend own sovereignty! Island nations have no chance in this regard. If any in the past, it was simply an accident in history.



Yep, by 2030 S China Sea will become a Chinese lake and Chinese military power will dominate up to Hawaii.

Only idiots would think that the US will still surround China by 2030.

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## terranMarine

52051 said:


> Several well informed sources from Chinese military BBS mention that, there will be 3 type-002 aircraft carriers builidng at the same time, one will be built in Dalian, one will be builit in Shanghai, and a newly added one will be be built in Huludao shipyard (which is a highly classified shipyard mainly building nuclear submarine for PLA before).
> 
> Nuclear submarines in China will also enter mass-producation phase unlike before.



If this turns out to be true then many of us here were very conservative with the AC buildup planning. Three 002 constructions at the same time man that's fooking awesome. With our new sub facility it's time to kick productions into high gear.

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## ChineseToTheBone

52051 said:


> Several well informed sources from Chinese military BBS mention that, there will be 3 type-002 aircraft carriers builidng at the same time, one will be built in Dalian, one will be builit in Shanghai, and a newly added one will be be built in Huludao shipyard (which is a highly classified shipyard mainly building nuclear submarine for PLA before).


In that case, hopefully construction for the next generation of nuclear powered aircraft carriers will not be delayed.

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## 52051

terranMarine said:


> If this turns out to be true then many of us here were very conservative with the AC buildup planning. Three 002 constructions at the same time man that's fooking awesome. With our new sub facility it's time to kick productions into high gear.



Well, if you check the recent history of China military building up, you would have found that the progress of China military development can actually make even the optimists' forecast/estimation turn out to be quite conservative.

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## Deino

52051 said:


> Several well informed sources from Chinese military BBS mention that, there will be 3 type-002 aircraft carriers builidng at the same time, one will be built in Dalian, one will be builit in Shanghai, and a newly added one will be be built in Huludao shipyard (which is a highly classified shipyard mainly building nuclear submarine for PLA before).
> 
> Nuclear submarines in China will also enter mass-producation phase unlike before.




But point is that even if building parts has just vbegun for the first in Shanghai it is also said to be build in the newly to be constructed Yard and not where the 055's are build today. Also at Dalian it seems as if a civil ship will be build currently and is the Yard at Huludao already ready for a carrier ?

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## grey boy 2

Why my picture became something like this? anyone? or its just me only?

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## samsara

grey boy 2 said:


> Why my picture became something like this? anyone? or its just me only?


Just to float your uploaded or attached pictures... strangely the pic appeared _during the reply editing_ ; yet later it is not visible in posted copy or in your original post.

*@grey boy 2* - I think it's a *HOTLINKING issue*! The source website does NOT allow hotlinking (i.e. direct linking) to its pictures! Try to re-upload it to a free image hosting resource (such as postimg.org etc) next time like I did below 

Re-upload it.... TYPE 002 CV 002型航母 (CG)

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## nang2

samsara said:


> Just to float your uploaded or attached pictures... strangely the pic appeared during the reply editing ; yet the pic is not visible in your original post or my final reply.
> 
> *@grey boy 2* - I think it's a HOTLINK issue! The source website does not allow hotlinking! Try to re-upload it to a free image hosting resource.
> 
> Re-uploading it.... TYPE 002 CV


I think expecting 3-elevator configuration is wishful thinking.


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## 52051

Deino said:


> But point is that even if building parts has just vbegun for the first in Shanghai it is also said to be build in the newly to be constructed Yard and not where the 055's are build today. Also at Dalian it seems as if a civil ship will build currently and is the Yard at Huludao already ready for a carrier ?



Huludao has a deeper dock for carrier-size building, it has better facility for this kind of ship-building comparing to Jiang-nan/shanghai shipyard.

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## yusheng

52051 said:


> Huludao has a deeper dock for carrier-size building, it has better facility for this kind of ship-building comparing to Jiang-nan/shanghai shipyard.


yes, one of the old shipyard in Huludao, which is 100+meter wide, 480+meter long,

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## grey boy 2

samsara said:


> Just to float your uploaded or attached pictures... strangely the pic appeared _during the reply editing_ ; yet later it is not visible in posted copy or in your original post.
> 
> *@grey boy 2* - I think it's a *HOTLINKING issue*! The source website does NOT allow hotlinking (i.e. direct linking) to its pictures! Try to re-upload it to a free image hosting resource (such as postimg.org etc) next time like I did below
> 
> Re-upload it.... TYPE 002 CV 002型航母 (CG)


Thankyou brother, actually i've been using imgur and also imageshack to upload pictures, i really can't get what is going wrong, anyway thanks again for posting the pictures for me, thats all really matter

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## cirr

Looks like completion of technical design of 002 has been delayed.

Possible cause?

The PLAN is having 2nd thought on steam driven catapult or EMALS? 

Hoping for the best!

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## waja2000

cirr said:


> Looks like completion of technical design of 002 has been delayed.
> Possible cause?
> The PLAN is having 2nd thought on steam driven catapult or EMALS?
> Hoping for the best!



well there is many news on 002, latest news is 002 technical design has been final in 2015. and already start building module in Jiangnan Shipyard at shanghai and subsidary shipyard. possibly we will see they start join the module in shipyard in 2018.
there is have 2 group with different view in PLAN top level which is pro-Conservative and Pro-advance which wanted EMALS.
if 002 already construction now it will be steam driven catapult. because EMALS only start testing around 2016. EMALS possible in 002A or 003. also china on testing nuclear power ship now.

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## grey boy 2

002 may looks like this: a nice CG







Compare to CV-17

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/877083710482337793

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## nang2

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/877083710482337793


That is a cheap work. It just hammers the bow part and makes it flat.


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## Deino

cirr said:


> Looks like completion of technical design of 002 has been delayed.
> 
> Possible cause?
> 
> The PLAN is having 2nd thought on steam driven catapult or EMALS?
> 
> Hoping for the best!




Yes I read such reports too ... here a summarised post from the SDF:



jobjed said:


> Along with a recant of the 075 prediction, pop3 also provided updates on 002:
> 
> First off, JNCX does not have an aircraft carrier under construction at the moment. Pop3 was very certain of this. He evem raised the possibility that 002 won't begin construction this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supplementary to the above, stating the same thing; 002 hasn't begun. Pop3 is careful not to use "002" as that may be a classified designation. Instead, he maintains the usage of "domestic catapult carrier". He was asked why the situation with 002 deteriorated but he replied it never deteriorated, only that some leakers were overzealous previously.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pop3 was prompted by someone pointing out that he had previously stated on HSH that a near-50k tonne LHD was going to begin construction but 001A was built instead. Additionally, he asked whether JNCX already had a 1600t crane fitted to no.4 basin, ready for carrier building. The first part of the question was more to ask about 075's status, whereupon pop3 said that there was an initial 48k tonne design that got revised to the current <40k tonne design. Additionally, 001A was not part of Project 048 early on but was instead initialised in 2009. The second part of the question regarding the 1600t crane, pop3 didn't address directly but stated that it was near definite that JNCX will construct carriers. However, work hasn't begun as _*the technical design hasn't been finalised*_. He also hinted that a delay in technical design completion could only mean one thing. He didn't clarify what this "one thing" was, but I think we all know what it is. *wink wink*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In response to his revelation that 002's design hasn't been finalised, someone asked how that could be considering the multitude of rumours that claimed the opposite. Pop3 responded; *1)* the technical design hasn't been completed, *2)* the so-called "finalisation of design" is a faux jargon that was given by industry outsiders. A true finalisation of design would entail design certification which is given only after the design in question has been built, put into service, and used for a few years so that all its bugs and quirks are known. Right now, the 002 is still in the technical design stage, which is followed by the manufacturing design (or design for manufacture) stage, the latter of which can occur concurrent with parts and materials ordering.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To consolidate, I think the probability of our seeing the first 002 being built with EMALS is getting higher and higher. The "one thing" that pop3 says caused the delays in finishing the technical design is most likely the choice of catapult type.

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## Deino

* Can we come back to the topic please ?? 

The Russian Navy, ice-free pots and Murmansk are in no way related to the Type 002.*

Deino

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## hirobo2

grey boy 2 said:


> 002 may looks like this: a nice CG


 
Bad CGI artist. The take-off flap on the right is blocking the landing strip...

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## Deino

Funny ... I found a post from our own @52051 quoted at the SDF but not here in the relevant thread !



> Ma Weiming, the star scientist from PLA University of Navy Engineering, recently accepted a invitation from his friend, the president of Shanghai University, to give a talk with students there on innovation and future career advice.
> 
> During this talk, he disclosed much information regarding PLA's future weapons platform:
> 
> (1) The next CV for PLAN will mostly likely to be equipped with electromagnetic aircraft launch system there is open competition, the *results will be announced next month*, *and he implies he will win due to huge lead comparing to the competitors.
> 
> And he told that Presidnent Xi Jinping personally order the build of next Chinese CV on-hold until the competition is over.*
> 
> Ma pointed out the design flaws of the EMAL on the Ford and claimed that his own version of EMALS will be far more efficient and won't have health hazard to the crew unlike the one on Ford class.
> 
> (3) More interestingly, the high speed submersible battleship concept, developed by another professor from the same school, is nicknamed as a "all-round" capable warship by General Ma; he told the students that such a ship will be equipped with *laser/EM*, *railguns*, and *fully-electrified powertrain and transmission system*.
> 
> Most interesting part is: *He mentioned that the ASBMs on such novel class of a battleship will be electromagnetically-launched, which means that such ASBMs will use much smaller boost-stage and overall weight and yet would still deliver the same amount of payload/range compared to their conventional counterpart.*
> 
> Note that electromagnetic-launched commerical rockets are also developed parallely by China Aerospace Science & Industry Corp, also using Ma Weiming's electromagnetic -launch technology:
> http://mil.sohu.com/20170108/n478084298.shtml
> 
> (4) During the talk, Ma also show a video of EMALS-launched J-15 and also mentioned that China's electronic powertrain/transmission systems are at least 1 generation better than the next gen US comparable systems, and that China's electrified powertrain will be also used on next gen systems like SSN/SSBN/tanks.

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## 星海军事

Deino said:


> Funny ... I found a post from our own @52051 quoted at the SDF but not here in the relevant thread !





52051 said:


> the high speed submerisable battleship conecpt developed by another professor from the same school, is nicknamed as "all-round" capable warship by General Ma... *He mentioned that the ASBMs on such novel class of battleship will be electromagnetic -launched, which means such ASBMs will use much smaller boost-stage and overall weight yet can still deliever the same amount of payload/range comparing to their convential counterpart.*



The above content has never been mentioned in the original article.


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## cirr



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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

cirr said:


> View attachment 407747
> 
> 
> View attachment 407749



for real??? J-15 with catapult?

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## cirr

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> for real??? J-15 with catapult?



Steam or EMALS. Now that's the question.

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## IblinI

cirr said:


> View attachment 407747
> 
> 
> View attachment 407749


Waiting for the confirmation. 

PS: This should be in a different thread


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## cirr

YuChen said:


> Waiting for the confirmation.
> 
> PS: This should be in a different thread



I am inclined to say that the pictured is EMALS in action

We have the system, talents and money to deliver.

Time is the only issue.

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> View attachment 407747
> 
> 
> View attachment 407749



Do we know if the above and the rumored "J-15B" (with AESA from 607) are the same aircraft? Or is the J-15B more of an interim solution until the CATOBAR version is ready?

Thanks.


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## ChineseTiger1986

cirr said:


> View attachment 407747
> 
> 
> View attachment 407749



Nice, a J-15B with WS-10H.

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## IblinI

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Nice, a J-15B with WS-10H.


I believed this is a J15T, enhanced landing gear for catapult launch.

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## ChineseTiger1986

YuChen said:


> I believed this is a J15T, enhanced landing gear for catapult launch.



The J-15B is also the catapult version, that's why the Type 001A will still use the J-15A instead of the J-15B.

Since the AL-31F is more suitable for the ski-jump takeoff than the WS-10H.

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## IblinI

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The J-15B is also the catapult version, that's why the Type 001A will still use the J-15A instead of the J-15B.
> 
> Since the AL-31F is more suitable for the ski-jump takeoff than the WS-10H.


I am aware of that, but this is a J15T for catapult testing purpose. J15B is the one we gonna put on 002.

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## ChineseTiger1986

YuChen said:


> I am aware of that, but this is a J15T for catapult testing purpose. J15B is the one we gonna put on 002.



The J-15T is basically the prototype of the J-15B.

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## ChineseLuver

cirr said:


> View attachment 407747
> 
> 
> View attachment 407749


There shud be a thread like this in Indian section that reads * deli gets emals from USA*
Anyway this is amazing! Surprises after surprises.
Walk the talk and not big mouth about future tense.. China style mesmerises the world in awe especially the colored neighbours

I vote yes for a dedicated thread for China EMALS advancement and mind you this is no easy feat to accomplish,pls mods put this in thought.TQ

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## IblinI

ChineseLuver said:


> There shud be a thread like this in Indian section that reads * deli gets emals from USA*
> Anyway this is amazing! Surprises after surprises.
> Walk the talk and not big mouth about future tense.. China style mesmerises the world in awe especially the colored neighbours
> 
> I vote yes for a dedicated thread for China EMALS advancement and mind you this is no easy feat to accomplish,pls mods put this in thought.TQ


This is not future nor present tense, this photo was taken at least a few months even a year ago.

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## ChineseLuver

YuChen said:


> This is not future nor present tense, this photo was taken at least a few months even a year ago.


 I agree bruh! Pics are only released when the higher-ups feel comfortable. This base is well protected from civilians so this is the actual confirmation from the military

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## IblinI

ChineseLuver said:


> I agree bruh! Pics are only released when the higher-ups feel comfortable. This base is well protected from civilians so this is the actual confirmation from the military


I still remember people here question and refuse to believed China developed EMALS for obvious reasons.
PS: It seems to be the screenshot from a 10 seconds video.

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## ChineseToTheBone

I assume the very next aircraft carrier for our navy will be using this new electromagnetic aircraft launch system instead of steam catapults then?




YuChen said:


> PS: It seems to be the screenshot from a 10 seconds video.


Do you have a link for that video in question?

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## IblinI

ChineseToTheBone said:


> I assume the very next aircraft carrier for our navy will be using this new electromagnetic aircraft launch system instead of steam catapults then?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link for that video in question?


Definitely not, its from the Ma wei ming's lecture in Shanghai university.

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## ChineseToTheBone

Huh. So it was a lecture given to random university students?

Were they at least potential recruits for the navy?

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## cirr

ChineseLuver said:


> There shud be a thread like this in Indian section that reads * deli gets emals from USA*
> Anyway this is amazing! Surprises after surprises.
> Walk the talk and not big mouth about future tense.. China style mesmerises the world in awe especially the colored neighbours
> 
> I vote yes for a dedicated thread for China EMALS advancement and mind you this is no easy feat to accomplish,pls mods put this in thought.TQ

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## Daniel808

cirr said:


> View attachment 407747
> 
> 
> View attachment 407749



Another Big day for China's Naval Development 
Again, Congratulations China 

J-15T Catapult Version, WS-10H China's Engine, EMALS ......

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## Deino

Daniel808 said:


> Another Big day for China's Naval Development
> Again, Congratulations China
> 
> J-15T Catapult Version, WS-10H China's Engine, EMALS ......



Indeed but I am sure not necessarily a great day today since I am sure that image is already older.

But with the CZ-5 launch later this day you are correct.

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## samsara

Deino said:


> Funny ... I found a post from our own @52051 quoted at the SDF but not here in the relevant thread !


And courtesy of "*Bltizo*" from SDF/CDF:


> most of this is fairly consistent with what we've heard over the last few years and some of the speculation that we've made ourselves.
> 
> his statement about the semi-submersible craft was interesting because he made a similar announcement in the recent past regarding a universal combat ship with EM launchers and railguns and lasers
> 
> http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2372313-1-1.html
> 
> 马伟明院士：“全能舰”将颠覆现有海上作战样式
> 
> 在第十一届中国发明家论坛上，马伟明院士展望未来海战——
> 进入4月以来，美国航母战斗群将驶入朝鲜半岛海域的各种传闻喧嚣尘上，加剧了半岛的紧张局势。看似平静的海面，是各国军事实力较量的主战场之一，如何才能在现代海战中赢得先机呢？
> “要想赢得战争，亟须舰船平台在能源动力、武器及发射方式上进行颠覆性变革，以技术性创新牵引作战样式创新。”中国科协副主席、中国工程院院士马伟明表示。他是在25日上午在京举行的第十一届中国发明家论坛上作主旨报告时作这番表述的。此次论坛由中国发明家协会、科技日报社等主办，全国政协副主席、中国科协主席、科学技术部部长万钢出席开幕式并致辞。
> 当前世界各国海上作战样式，是按照任务类型设计和建造不同的作战平台，由多个作战平台组成编队，谋求体系作战和精确打击。马伟明认为，以编队为单元的海上作战样式主要存在两大局限，一是平台和武器的建造、维持成本高，经济可承受性差，二是投入的作战平台种类和数量多，前沿传感器系统复杂，协同指挥难度大，电磁脆弱性强。
> 在描述对新的海上作战样式的构想时，马伟明指出，舰载高能武器和全电舰船技术的集成创新与研制成功，将使单艘舰艇实现系统防空、反潜和对海、对岸的精确打击，这将彻底颠覆现有的海上作战样式。电磁轨道炮、电磁火箭弹、线圈炮、激光炮等高能武器的出现，使单舰平台的整体攻防性能和持续作战能力大幅增强，舰船综合电力系统的研制成功，又为高能武器上舰提供了充足的能源支持。
> 如此强大的单舰平台，马伟明称之为“全能舰”，对其攻防性能逐一进行了设想。防空分为3个层次：200—600公里范围，使用可重复自动装填的通用电磁发射装置发射反导导弹，实现点对点防御；10—200公里，利用电磁轨道炮实现目标面拦截；10公里以内，利用激光炮作为最后一道防线，对末端导弹进行拦截。反潜和反鱼雷上，利用电磁发射装置发射反潜导弹对潜艇进行攻击，利用电磁线圈炮对来袭鱼雷进行拦截。
> 在反舰与对陆攻击体系的构想中，“全能舰”将形成3层火力圈：600—1000公里，使用可重复自动装填的通用电磁发射装置发射远程巡航导弹和弹道导弹，完成对海和对岸目标攻击；200—600公里，利用电磁火箭弹（炮），进行对海和对岸目标攻击；200公里以内，利用电磁轨道炮完成对海和对岸目标的攻击，一具电磁轨道炮可将对岸打击能力提高一个数量级。
> 在马伟明看来，我国在舰载高能武器和全电舰船技术两大领域的群体性突破，为海上作战样式变革提供了基础和条件。他表示，若能抓住当前化学能、机械能向电磁能变革的技术发展趋势，充分发挥当前我国在电磁能武器和舰船综合电力系统领域的世界领先优势，先对手一步实现作战样式的创新与变革，必将实现对英美发达国家的后发赶超，并主导和引领未来海上作战样式。（来源：科技日报）
> 
> 
> translation by hmmvw via cdf from a while ago:
> Rear Adm Ma finally defined his universal ship concept, it's clearly not something in the 055 weight class can do. This is a modern incarnation of the dreadnought.
> 
> Air defense: first layer 200-600km using missiles launched from universal electromagnetic launcher, second layer 10-200km using railgun, terminal phase <10km using laser gun.
> Surface strike: 600-1000km using cruise or ballistic missiles launched from universal electromagnetic launcher, 200-600km using electromagnetic launched rockets or projectile, <200km using railgun.
> Anti submarine: electromagnetic launched anti submarine missile, coilgun for torpedo defense.
> 
> I mean, a reloadable electromagnetic launcher with a magazine full of long range missiles, including ballistic missiles, will be huge. My guess is that the ship is either based off a large existing platform, such as 071, or a brand new 20,000t to 30,000t class design, and preferably nuclear powered.
> 
> .... the thing is I thought his concept was theoretical or at least meant for the long term future, and not for the semi submersible combatant which by the sounds of it might be arriving in the medium term rather than long term... though who knows, there's so much about that project which is still unknown.
> 
> His statements about SSN/SSBN and EM catapult is stuff we've known, and his statement about the carrier halting construction until the catapult competition is finished corresponds with the latest news from pop3 as well...




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/881378991185244160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/880622425758613505
And in other tweet:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/880358762346762240

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Deino said:


> Indeed but I am sure not necessarily a great day today since I am sure that image is already older.
> 
> But with the CZ-5 launch later this day you are correct.



Maybe the image is old but we have never seen that before so it's still new to me .

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## Deino

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Maybe the image is old but we have never seen that before so it's still new to me .




Yes ... and I truly hope for more !

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The J-15B is also the catapult version, that's why the Type 001A will still use the J-15A instead of the J-15B.
> 
> Since the AL-31F is more suitable for the ski-jump takeoff than the WS-10H.




So can we assume that the J-15A and B are avionics-wise the same (AESA) but differ most of all by their ability to be launched off a cat?

J-15A = AESA-STOBAR-version
J-15B = AESA-CAT-version

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> So can we assume that the J-15A and B are avionics-wise the same (AESA) but differ most of all by their ability to be launched off a cat?
> 
> J-15A = AESA-STOBAR-version
> J-15B = AESA-CAT-version



The AL-31F got more explosive power in a short burst than both WS-10 and American jet engines, that's why it is the best engine for the ski-jump carriers.

Right now with the catapult, the J-15 can equip with the WS-10H despite having less explosive power.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The AL-31F got more explosive power in a short burst than both WS-10 and American jet engines, that's why it is the best engine for the ski-jump carriers.
> 
> Right now with the catapult, the J-15 can equip with the WS-10H despite having less explosive power.




äääähhmm ... but that was not my question ??


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> äääähhmm ... but that was not my question ??



The landing gear of the J-15B is also different, it is designated for the catapult takeoff.

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## cirr

Looks though a decision has been reached on EMALS.....

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## luciferdd

73楼 slayerhuahua 发消息 只看他 
2017-7-4 16:45
本帖最后由 slayerhuahua 于 2017-7-4 16:57 编辑 

换就换呗，不得不说XX4所这次挺丢人。而且反正打了那么多老虎了总有人承担责任了，不用现在在位的顶雷，皆大欢喜，只是苦了加班改图纸的基层

这件事就是徐，郭两个国贼把持军委给国家重大装备带来严重影响的又一铁证

002 will have EMALS is confirmed by huahua.

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## j20blackdragon

055, 002 with EMALS, and submersible arsenal ship?!

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## Deino

But with the EMALS they need a huge amount of electricity ... so 002 needs to be a CVN !


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> But with the EMALS they need a huge amount of electricity ... so 002 needs to be a CVN !



They claim that theoretically the conventional power can also satisfy the demand of the EMALS, since China has already developed the superconductivity technology a few years ago.

BTW, the construction of the Type 002 has already been halted, and the EMALS has replaced the steam catapult, so the propulsion for the new Type 002 has not been decided yet, since anything can happen right now.

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## sheik

cirr said:


> Looks though a decision has been reached on EMALS.....


That makes much more sense. 



Deino said:


> But with the EMALS they need a huge amount of electricity ... so 002 needs to be a CVN !



Not necessarily. As long as the engines and generators are powerful enough, they can accommodate the EMALS system. I don't think 002 will be CVN, and Ma and PLA must have evaluated the feasibility (of using EMALS w/o nuclear reactors).

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## ChineseTiger1986

sheik said:


> That makes much more sense.
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. As long as the engines and generators are powerful enough, they can accommodate the EMALS system. I don't think 002 will be CVN, and Ma and PLA must have evaluated the feasibility (of using EMALS w/o nuclear reactors).



With the Type 002 serves as the test platform for the new technologies like EMALS/AAG/Dual Band Radar, everything for the Type 003 will be greatly facilitated.

The Gerald Ford class is now getting into big trouble because the USN was getting too greedy, they wanted to put everything together at once.

Chinese AAG vs American AAG

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## lmjiao

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> With the Type 002 serves as the test platform for the new technologies like EMALS/AAG/Dual Band Radar, everything for the Type 003 will be greatly facilitated.
> 
> The Gerald Ford class is now getting into big trouble because the USN was getting too greedy, they wanted to put everything together at once.
> 
> Chinese AAG vs American AAG
> 
> 
> View attachment 408385
> 
> 
> View attachment 408386



I have two twin boys and their difference is still larger than these two.



Deino said:


> But with the EMALS they need a huge amount of electricity ... so 002 needs to be a CVN !



No, it's still conventional. 

Accturally, the EMALS consumes less power than steam catapult. What 002 needs is just more electricity less steam. The demand of total power is even smaller.

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## SingaporeGuy

Congrats to china.

From singapore

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## waja2000

Deino said:


> But with the EMALS they need a huge amount of electricity ... so 002 needs to be a CVN !



EMALS most difficult is on power storage, need big and fast enough to charge and release power instantly (during heavy operation). electric should no the issue just extra Gas turbine will be enough, plus get energy recovery from Electromagnetic aircraft arrestor system.
China is master in batteries and electrical engineering too.

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## Title123

Type002 shall have CATOBA mix with STOBA or not when CATOBA damage it still can uses STOBA in case of emergency airclaft lounching?


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## lcloo

Title123 said:


> Type002 shall have CATOBA mix with STOBA or not when CATOBA damage it still can uses STOBA in case of emergency airclaft lounching?



A mix of catapult launch and ski ramp launch is a sign of no confidence on the reliability of the catapult system.

Morever, there are 3 or 4 catapult systems on the ship, if one mal-function, the others can still carry on launching. If the mal-function is not severe, onboard machine shop should be able to repair it while the ship is still at sea.

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## lmjiao

Title123 said:


> Type002 shall have CATOBA mix with STOBA or not when CATOBA damage it still can uses STOBA in case of emergency airclaft lounching?


002 has no ski-junp, only EMALS.

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## aakash_2410

How credible are the news of 002 Aircraft Carrier having EMALS?


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## ChineseTiger1986

aakash_2410 said:


> How credible are the news of 002 Aircraft Carrier having EMALS?



It is 100% credible.

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## lmjiao

aakash_2410 said:


> How credible are the news of 002 Aircraft Carrier having EMALS?


100%

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## ChineseTiger1986

The Type 002 got a twin, either both using the steam catapult or both using the EMALS. Now the EMALS is the only option. The performance of the steam catapult is also very good, it suggests that China's steam catapult can also match the performance of the C13-2 using by the late Nimitz class. There are two types of EMALS and one type of steam catapult. The steam catapult simply got outgunned by both model of the EMALS.

捣蛋不对16:44:27
704所的蒸汽弹射器2011年开始弹射试验
捣蛋不对16:44:41
基本达到设计目标
捣蛋不对16:45:06
包括挡焰版，拦阻索和升降机都是人家研制的
捣蛋不对16:45:37
其实参与PK的是三种弹射器
捣蛋不对) 16:45:48
电弹两种，蒸汽一种
捣蛋不对16:47:28
蒸汽弹射器已经很成熟了
捣蛋不对16:47:54
电磁弹射器除了成熟度之外其他各种指标全面压倒蒸汽弹射器
捣蛋不对 16:48:36
在第二代国产航母的方案设计中确实存在过反复
捣蛋不对 16:52:28
002系两艘要么全上蒸汽弹射器
捣蛋不对16:52:37
要么全上电弹

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## SingaporeGuy

aakash_2410 said:


> How credible are the news of 002 Aircraft Carrier having EMALS?



Your 2x aeronautical engineering degree will come in handy if u move to china now

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## cnleio

General Zhang said: China type002 A.C won't install EMALS ... Do u believe ?

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## lmjiao

cnleio said:


> General Zhang said: China type002 A.C won't install EMALS ... Do u believe ?
> 
> 
> View attachment 411366



This is the most reliable proof that 002 will use EMALS.

General Zhang is the most respected expert on Chinese web. However, his prediction needs to be understood in the opposite way. Just as his prediction in 2010 that J-20 does not exist.

Now General Zhang makes another prediction, this make me believe more than ever that 002 will use EMALS.

Some may ask why? Well, this is a too long story.

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## SingaporeGuy

hope type002 can install nuclear power as well :x

restore back chinese pride! )

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## ChineseTiger1986

SingaporeGuy said:


> hope type002 can install nuclear power as well :x
> 
> restore back chinese pride! )



If the decision maker of the CPC can think even bolder, then yes.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

cnleio said:


> General Zhang said: China type002 A.C won't install EMALS ... Do u believe ?
> 
> 
> View attachment 411366



Personally I prefer 002 AC to be EMALS even if the technology is still immature, instead of wasting money on something that is about to be obsoleted such as steam catapult why not spend more time and money on EMALS, we
're not in the rush to have arm race with anyone...002 EMALS can be our scientific research ship as Liaoning and 003 shall be our truth EMAL operational carrier.

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## 帅的一匹

Whether it's EMALS depends on the progress of the nuclear reactor development of the carrier.

Conventional carrier is not s big deal.

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## SingaporeGuy

wanglaokan said:


> Whether it's EMALS depends on the progress of the nuclear reactor development of the carrier.
> 
> Conventional carrier is not s big deal.




is it true that emals will require nuclear power since there is more electrical energy required? Or just conventional power will do?


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## 帅的一匹

SingaporeGuy said:


> is it true that emals will require nuclear power since there is more electrical energy required? Or just conventional power will do?


Of course nuclear powerplant


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## lmjiao

SingaporeGuy said:


> hope type002 can install nuclear power as well :x
> 
> restore back chinese pride! )


China hasn't started development of nuclear power plants for CV untill last year.

If type 002 use nuclear power, it's schedule will be seriously delayed.

Thus, we shall expect two conventional type 002s before the nuclear type 003.



wanglaokan said:


> Whether it's EMALS depends on the progress of the nuclear reactor development of the carrier.
> 
> Conventional carrier is not s big deal.



Nuclear has nothing to do with EMALS. Acturally, EMALS consumes lesser energy than stem catapult, make it more avaliable for convential powered CV.

Caution: it is Energy here, not electricity. EMALS does need more electricity, but the total energy consumption is reduced. The convential power need to provide more steam for steam catapults, while provide less steam for electricity power plants for EMALS.



SingaporeGuy said:


> is it true that emals will require nuclear power since there is more electrical energy required? Or just conventional power will do?


As I explained above, it is not true. The type 002 will be the first conventional CV with EMALS.



wanglaokan said:


> Of course nuclear powerplant



The reality is: Of course not.
I bet with my Ph.D in nuclear physics.

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## 帅的一匹

lmjiao said:


> China hasn't started development of nuclear power plants for CV untill last year.
> 
> If type 002 use nuclear power, it's schedule will be seriously delayed.
> 
> Thus, we shall expect two conventional type 002s before the nuclear type 003.
> 
> 
> 
> Nuclear has nothing to do with EMALS. Acturally, EMALS consumes lesser energy than stem catapult, make it more avaliable for convential powered CV.
> 
> Caution: it is Energy here, not electricity. EMALS does need more electricity, but the total energy consumption is reduced. The convential power need to provide more steam for steam catapults, while provide less steam for electricity power plants for EMALS.
> 
> 
> As I explained above, it is not true. The type 002 will be the first conventional CV with EMALS.
> 
> 
> 
> The reality is: Of course not.
> I bet with my Ph.D in nuclear physics.


I'm not a specialist, but General Ying Zhuo said in CCTV 4 that we will only consider EMALS when nuclear reactor is ready.

We only see Steam catapult carrier in the history, not a conventional EMALS.

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## lmjiao

wanglaokan said:


> I'm not a specialist, but General Ying Zhuo said in CCTV 4 that we will only consider EMALS when nuclear reactor is ready.
> 
> We only see Steam catapult carrier in the history, not a conventional EMALS.



You are distributing exactly the wrong and misleading information!!!!!!!

General Ying Zhou's most important opponion is EMALS does NOT need nuclear power！

Check this link for General Ying Zhou's statements:
http://mil.huanqiu.com/observation/2016-11/9696769.html
尹卓表示，如果消息歼-15完成首次弹射起飞的消息属实，该架歼-15应该已不是原理样机，而是工程样机。从网上曝光的弹射版歼-15的照片来看，歼-15可能已经进入可实用阶段。*此外，电磁弹射器并不是必须加装在核动力航母上，常规动力航母也完全能够提供电磁弹射器所需的瞬时高能量。*“弹射版歼-15给我们展示了很好的前景，今后中国航母的作战能力将远远超过‘库兹涅佐夫’号。”​English translation for the red part: However, EMALS is not required to be installed in a nuclear CV, conventional CV could also provide the high energy in short time for the EMALS.

The origional video for the above statements from General Ying Zhuo can be found in the following link (video in Chinese)
http://tv.cctv.com/2016/11/16/VIDEIS8nmC7b7P0vWfr3NHP1161116.shtml

We WILL see a convential EMALS in near future, and this is due to physics, not history.

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## 帅的一匹

What if we need to add more DEW on the carrier? Ying Zhuo did say we need nuclear reactor to power the EMALS one year ago. Might he had changed his tongue if there is a big technology breakthrough.

I saw that CCTV4 today's focus by myself! I swear!

A conventional carrier's combat ability is far inferior than a nuclear carrier, especially when it comes to infinite cruise. We must develop nuclear carrier!


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## lmjiao

wanglaokan said:


> What if we need to add more DEW on the carrier? Ying Zhuo did say we need nuclear reactor to power the EMALS one year ago. Might he had changed his tongue if there is a big technology breakthrough.
> 
> I saw that CCTV4 today's focus by myself! I swear!


Anything related to DEW or EMALS is not Nuclear. It is electricity.

This is why General-Professor Ma Weiming's research is so important.

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## 帅的一匹

Ying Zhuo doesn't have a saying in it, Ma Wei Ming has.



lmjiao said:


> Anything related to DEW or EMALS is not Nuclear. It is electricity.
> 
> This is why General-Professor Ma Weiming's research is so important.


But what if use conventional power plant to propel a 10 thousands tons carriers with EMALS and DEW?



lmjiao said:


> Anything related to DEW or EMALS is not Nuclear. It is electricity.
> 
> This is why General-Professor Ma Weiming's research is so important.


Electricity is generated by power plant? And it might severely dampen the operation range of the carrier if we don't have nuclear reactor?

The output of a nuclear reactor is beyond a gas turbine or steam boiler.


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## lmjiao

wanglaokan said:


> What if we need to add more DEW on the carrier? Ying Zhuo did say we need nuclear reactor to power the EMALS one year ago. Might he had changed his tongue if there is a big technology breakthrough.
> 
> I saw that CCTV4 today's focus by myself! I swear!
> 
> A conventional carrier's combat ability is far inferior than a nuclear carrier, especially when it comes to infinite cruise. We must develop nuclear carrier!



You are mentioning two aspects, 1. combat ability, 2. cruise range
As for 1. the type 002 with 3 EMALS is able to compete with Nimitz
As for 2. you are right.

Yes, we must develop nuclear carrier. And we are developing nuclear carrier, namely type 003.

It is just a matter of time. We can not finish nuclear carrier within 10 years, but we can finish type 002 within this period. Thus, the choice is clear, the PLAN develop them both. Type 002 for strategy in this and next decade, type 003 for the future.

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## 帅的一匹

Unless China has a nuclear carrier, I say it has no real combat ability on the high sea.

航母就在家门口转，没出过远门。可见常规动力限制之大！

Way to go, another 10 years maybe.

What PLaN has seriously threat to our enemy is type 055 and type 096 SSBN.

Conventional carrier is not mainstay trend.

It's just a stop gap.

Operational range and catapult efficiency is the most important indicators for a modern carrier.


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## lmjiao

wanglaokan said:


> Ying Zhuo doesn't have a saying in it, Ma Wei Ming has.
> 
> But what if use conventional power plant to propel a 10 thousands tons carriers with EMALS and DEW?


Type 002 is limited to 7.5K tons full loaded.
Type 003 could be 10K tons, but it is your favourite nuclear CV.
I don't see why you are considering this 10K tons conventional CV.



wanglaokan said:


> Electricity is generated by power plant? And it might severely dampen the operation range of the carrier if we don't have nuclear reactor?
> The output of a nuclear reactor is beyond a gas turbine or steam boiler.


Steam boiler provide steam for catapult (steam catapult) or electricity generator turbine(EMALS). In the first case, the steam amount required is larger.

So, a conventional CV with EMALS (Type 002) could have larger cruise range than a conventional CV with steam catapult(USS Kitty Hawk CV-63).

Yes, nuclear CV is better, but I don't understand your worries.



wanglaokan said:


> Unless China has a nuclear carrier, I say it has no real combat ability on the high sea.
> 
> 航母就在家门口转，没出过远门。可见常规动力限制之大！
> 
> Way to go, another 10 years maybe.
> 
> What PLaN has seriously threat to our enemy is type 055 and type 096 SSBN.
> 
> Conventional carrier is not mainstay trend.
> 
> It's just a stop gap.
> 
> Operational range and catapult efficiency is the most important indicators for a modern carrier.


You are right. But the Star Destroyer is even better.

We built what we can built right now, that's all.

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## 帅的一匹

lmjiao said:


> Type 002 is limited to 7.5K tons full loaded.
> Type 003 could be 10K tons, but it is your favourite nuclear CV.
> I don't see why you are considering this 10K tons conventional CV.
> 
> 
> Steam boiler provide steam for catapult (steam catapult) or electricity generator turbine(EMALS). In the first case, the steam amount required is larger.
> 
> So, a conventional CV with EMALS (Type 002) will have larger cruise range than a conventional CV with steam catapult(USS Kitty Hawk CV-63).
> 
> Yes, nuclear CV is better, but I don't understand your worries.


Maybe we have technology break though in 舰船综合电力技术（ship integrated electricity system). Ma Wei Ming said it can also solve the problem of installing DEW on our DDG.


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## lmjiao

wanglaokan said:


> Maybe we have technology break though in 舰船综合电力技术。


Yes, the type 003 carrier could be the first CV with the shipboard integrated power system, if not the second type 002. This is very usefull for EMALS and DEW.

EDIT: Type 003 is the first Chinese CV with shipboard integrated power system.
The first CV in the world with shipboard integrated power system is Queen Elizabeth II of the Royal Navy.

The first type 002 is designed without the shipboard integrated power system, but General-Professor Ma Weiming did provide technologies to transform the steam power for the EMALS

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## 帅的一匹

lmjiao said:


> Yes, the type 003 carrier could be the first CV with the shipboard integrated power system, if not the second type 002. This is very usefull for EMALS and DEW.
> 
> The first type 002 is designed without the shipboard integrated power system, but General-Professor Ma Weiming did provide technologies to transform the steam power for the EMALS


Great news! Ma Wei Ming is a genius.

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## Han Patriot

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-07/17/content_30134522.htm



> The marine resources survey ship will be 98 meters long and 17 m wide and will have a displacement of 4,000 tons. It will be driven by an *advanced electric propulsion system*.


Official confirmation of a working IEP.

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## lcloo

Exhibits showing three different designs in Navy Hall designed the the magazine "Ship Knowledge".

“铭记光辉历史 开创强军伟业——庆祝中国人民解放军建军90周年主题展览”中的模型看舰岛很小，明显没有烟囱应该是核动力，印象中这个展览还是挺靠谱的，展示的基本都是现役装备，应该不会随便胡扯一个模型展览吧，难道真是军迷称谓的003航母？
还有这次海军馆是《舰船知识》编辑部负责内容设计与创意策划的“军博海军装备技术馆”

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## ChineseTiger1986

lcloo said:


> Exhibits in Navy Hall designed the the magazine "Ship Knowledge".
> 
> “铭记光辉历史 开创强军伟业——庆祝中国人民解放军建军90周年主题展览”中的模型看舰岛很小，明显没有烟囱应该是核动力，印象中这个展览还是挺靠谱的，展示的基本都是现役装备，应该不会随便胡扯一个模型展览吧，难道真是军迷称谓的003航母？
> 还有这次海军馆是《舰船知识》编辑部负责内容设计与创意策划的“军博海军装备技术馆”
> 
> View attachment 413336
> View attachment 413337
> View attachment 413338



This one is a CVN, it cannot be 19, since the Type 002 got a twin which should be the CV-18 and CV-19.

Unless the whole Type 002 family has been modified into the CVN.

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## lcloo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This one is a CVN, it cannot be 19, since the Type 002 got a twin which should be the CV-18 and CV-19.
> 
> Unless the whole Type 002 family has been modified into the CVN.


 Your reply came too quick before I amended my post. Looks like three different designs, 2 CVN and a conventional CV (No.19).

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## ChineseTiger1986

lcloo said:


> Your reply came too quick before I amended my post. Looks like three different designs, 2 CVN and a conventional CV (No.19).



I think over 90% of the chance the Type 002 is conventional, and the ship family got a twin.

I think this is the cooperation for the CVN-20 which belongs to the Type 003 class.

http://www.cssc.net.cn/component_news/news_detail.php?id=24748

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## Akasa

lcloo said:


> Exhibits showing three different designs in Navy Hall designed the the magazine "Ship Knowledge".
> 
> “铭记光辉历史 开创强军伟业——庆祝中国人民解放军建军90周年主题展览”中的模型看舰岛很小，明显没有烟囱应该是核动力，印象中这个展览还是挺靠谱的，展示的基本都是现役装备，应该不会随便胡扯一个模型展览吧，难道真是军迷称谓的003航母？
> 还有这次海军馆是《舰船知识》编辑部负责内容设计与创意策划的“军博海军装备技术馆”
> 
> View attachment 413336
> View attachment 413337
> View attachment 413338



Is that a model of the J-20 on the deck?


----------



## lmjiao

lcloo said:


> Exhibits showing three different designs in Navy Hall designed the the magazine "Ship Knowledge".
> 
> “铭记光辉历史 开创强军伟业——庆祝中国人民解放军建军90周年主题展览”中的模型看舰岛很小，明显没有烟囱应该是核动力，印象中这个展览还是挺靠谱的，展示的基本都是现役装备，应该不会随便胡扯一个模型展览吧，难道真是军迷称谓的003航母？
> 还有这次海军馆是《舰船知识》编辑部负责内容设计与创意策划的“军博海军装备技术馆”
> 
> View attachment 413336
> View attachment 413337
> View attachment 413338


The model in the first and second figure is official, which President Xi watched recently in the exhibition.

Model in the first two figures is of CVN Type 003. This model is official, and it is probably what 003 will be.

Model in the third figure is from another exhibition, and that one is not so official.

So, please focus on the model in first two figues. Becase this is prepared by PLAN for the President.



SinoSoldier said:


> Is that a model of the J-20 on the deck?


Probably

Acturally, MOD please consider start a Type 003 thread.

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## yusheng

李杰表示，近几年，海军装备的更新换代，首屈一指的应该是航母，无论是辽宁舰的改装和应用已近五年，还是001A型航母在今年的下水，以及采用弹射式起飞的002型航母可能在今年年底下水，这样的发展速度真是举世瞩目。

李杰，男，海军军事学术研究所研究员，长期从事军事战略、安全形势、武器装备、海洋军事等方面的研究。


http://newspaper.jfdaily.com/xwcb/html/2017-08/01/content_25341.htm

Li Jie said that in recent years, the navy equipment upgrading, leading should be the carrier, whether modification and application of Liaoning ship has been nearly five years, or 001A type aircraft carrier in this year's launch, and the 002 aircraft carrier catapult takeoff may launch at the end of this year, the pace of development is really remarkable.

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## ChineseTiger1986

yusheng said:


> 李杰表示，近几年，海军装备的更新换代，首屈一指的应该是航母，无论是辽宁舰的改装和应用已近五年，还是001A型航母在今年的下水，以及采用弹射式起飞的002型航母可能在今年年底下水，这样的发展速度真是举世瞩目。
> 
> 李杰，男，海军军事学术研究所研究员，长期从事军事战略、安全形势、武器装备、海洋军事等方面的研究。
> 
> 
> http://newspaper.jfdaily.com/xwcb/html/2017-08/01/content_25341.htm
> 
> Li Jie said that in recent years, the navy equipment upgrading, leading should be the carrier, whether modification and application of Liaoning ship has been nearly five years, or 001A type aircraft carrier in this year's launch, and the 002 aircraft carrier catapult takeoff may launch at the end of this year, the pace of development is really remarkable.



But he also insisted that the Type 002 will still use the steam catapult. If the Type 002 still uses the steam catapult, then the EMALS would be reserved for the future Type 003.

And the rear Admiral Ma has clearly confirmed that the Type 002 is now ready for the EMALS. With the Type 002 being postponed for the EMALS, I doubt we could see the Type 002 being launched in this year, but being laid down on the dry dock is more likely.

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## Deino

Henri K. posted on twitter that "steel cutting" for the first Type 002 carrier occurred at JNCX on 29/06



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897946617726124036

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## 星海军事

Deino said:


> Henri K. posted on twitter that "steel cutting" for the first Type 002 carrier occurred at JNCX on 29/06
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897946617726124036



It was first revealed by a staff of Jiangnan Shipyard before the launch of 055.

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## Deino

星海军事 said:


> It was first revealed by a staff of Jiangnan Shipyard before the launch of 055.




Then I must have missed it. So if it was revealed before the 055's launch (on 28. June), when was that event of first "steel cutting"?


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## 星海军事

Deino said:


> Then I must have missed it. So if it was revealed before the 055's launch (on 28. June), when was that event of first "steel cutting"?


June 29, 2017.

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## Daniel808

星海军事 said:


> June 29, 2017.



Any info, Type 002 AC will use EMALS Catapult or Steam Catapult one, sir?


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## 星海军事

Daniel808 said:


> Any info, Type 002 AC will use EMALS Catapult or Steam Catapult one, sir?



Let's look forward to 2020

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## Deino

星海军事 said:


> Let's look forward to 2020




If we assume a similar timeline for the Type 002 as seen with the Type 001A vessel, I would expect something like this:

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## Daniel808

星海军事 said:


> Let's look forward to 2020



Very diplomatic answer 
Hope in 2020 you still active in here, looking forward for your answer in the future.

But for myself, I will place my bet to EMALS one



Deino said:


> If we assume a similar timeline for the Type 002 as seen with the Type 001A vessel, I would expect something like this:
> 
> View attachment 419086



What I heard from many people, Jiangnan Shipyard is more efficient than Dalian Shipyard

Doesn't know it's true or not, but I hope it's true.

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## Akasa

Deino said:


> Henri K. posted on twitter that "steel cutting" for the first Type 002 carrier occurred at JNCX on 29/06
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897946617726124036



Henri K. is suggesting that the J-20 has a much higher chance of serving onboard


星海军事 said:


> It was first revealed by a staff of Jiangnan Shipyard before the launch of 055.



Hey, can you confirm that J-20s will indeed be the next-generation PLAN fighter, as per this diagram? Thanks.


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## 星海军事

Deino said:


> If we assume a similar timeline for the Type 002 as seen with the Type 001A vessel, I would expect something like this:
> 
> View attachment 419086



According to state media, the construction of the first Chinese indigenous aircraft carrier began in November 2013.



SinoSoldier said:


> Henri K. is suggesting that the J-20 has a much higher chance of serving onboard
> 
> 
> Hey, can you confirm that J-20s will indeed be the next-generation PLAN fighter, as per this diagram? Thanks.



No. However, the start of the construction implies that the technical design of the carrier was finished and approved, and those key characteristics of the next generation carrier-based fixed-wing were as well specified. Thus I suppose PLAN has already had an ideal image of the fighter in its mind.

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## Deino

星海军事 said:


> According to state media, the construction of the first Chinese indigenous aircraft carrier began in November 2013.
> .



But is statement is related to the Type 001A !


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## 星海军事

Deino said:


> But is statement is related to the Type 001A !


？


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## Deino

Pardon if I was not clear enough:



星海军事 said:


> According to state media, the construction of the first Chinese indigenous aircraft carrier began in November 2013.
> ....



The date November 2013 must IMO be related to the Type 001A since this is in fact the first Chinese carrier !?? Or am I wrong.

Otherwise begin of construction of the Type 002 vessel November 2013 would surprise me, since it would mean that already after 4 years of construction nothing was seen so far.

I'm a bit confused now. 

Deino


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## rcrmj

SinoSoldier said:


> Henri K. is suggesting that the J-20 has a much higher chance of serving onboard
> 
> 
> Hey, can you confirm that J-20s will indeed be the next-generation PLAN fighter, as per this diagram? Thanks.


very unlikely to have J-20 on it```very unlikely```and 002 is not as big as most of you believe```

what excites me was not those ACs or new destroyers````those things that under water are really something! 
as those surface ships were well planned long ago, and they will come in time.....but those under the water are really well kept secret, until recently few infos leaked````some of them are "mind blowing"!

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## Brainsucker

rcrmj said:


> very unlikely to have J-20 on it```very unlikely```and 002 is not as big as most of you believe```
> 
> what excites me was not those ACs or new destroyers````those things that under water are really something!
> as those surface ships were well planned long ago, and they will come in time.....but those under the water are really well kept secret, until recently few infos leaked````some of them are "mind blowing"!



What the under water things?


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## 星海军事

Deino said:


> Pardon if I was not clear enough:
> 
> 
> 
> The date November 2013 must IMO be related to the Type 001A since this is in fact the first Chinese carrier !?? Or am I wrong.
> 
> Otherwise begin of construction of the Type 002 vessel November 2013 would surprise me, since it would mean that already after 4 years of construction nothing was seen so far.
> 
> I'm a bit confused now.
> 
> Deino



By saying "the first Chinese indigenous aircraft carrier" I meant "001A".

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## Deino

星海军事 said:


> By saying "the first Chinese indigenous aircraft carrier" I meant "001A".




Thanks


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## samsara

Brainsucker said:


> What the under water things?



The next generation Type 095 SSN and Type 096 SSBN... these nuke subs are the real deterrent powers more than all the surface ships... but giant surface ships have their own merits for *showing off forces* around (they give good psychological superiority) while the subs are ghost things to the public 

Just look on how mighty the 11 CSG sailing around the oceans projecting their muscles though in actual hot war they may be turned into the giant floating coffins by the A2/AD if they ever dare to come into the conflict zones.

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## Brainsucker

samsara said:


> The next generation Type 095 SSN and Type 096 SSBN... these nuke subs are the real deterrent powers more than all the surface ships... but giant surface ships have their own merits for *showing off forces* around (they give good psychological superiority) while the subs are ghost things to the public
> 
> Just look on how mighty the 11 CSG sailing around the oceans projecting their muscles though in actual hot war they may be turned into the giant floating coffins by the A2/AD if they ever dare to come into the conflict zones.



I thought they are Chinese underwater greatwall or Chinese Unmanned Subs.


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## lmjiao

Sorry wrong information, self deleted.


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## Deino

lmjiao said:


> Name of Type "002" confirmed
> 
> View attachment 419858




But as far as I understand the corresponding discussion in the Type 001A thread it is in fact related to the carrier, that was launched in April.

So there was no Type 001A and this is already the Type 002 ... making our so far 002 de facto 003 ?

Deino


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## lmjiao

Deino said:


> But as far as I understand the corresponding discussion in the Type 001A thread it is in fact related to the carrier, that was launched in April.
> 
> So there was no Type 001A and this is already the Type 002 ... making our so far 002 de facto 003 ?
> 
> Deino


Yes, you are correct.

Sorry, I made a mistake here. Everything is so confusing now.

Right now, my understanding is:
Type 001: CV-16, Liaoning
Type 002: CV-17, Chinese copy of Liaoning
Type 003: CV-18, Conventional _(Not sure, some saying Nuclear)_ CV of 75,000 tons with EMALS

Who is the one invented "Type 001A"???

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## rcrmj

muhahaha```the process is such like a TV drama

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## lmjiao

OK, I give up. There are resent rumors stating that China's third CV-18 after Liaoning and Shandong is NUCLEAR!

I don't know what to believe now. Everything I learned in the past few years become meaningless today.

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## Deino

Thread title changed to:

*Type 00X/003 (former Type 002) Aircraft Carrier News & Discussions*

Hopefully that will fix the confusion ...


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## Figaro

Deino said:


> Thread title changed to:
> 
> *Type 00X/003 (former Type 002) Aircraft Carrier News & Discussions*
> 
> Hopefully that will fix the confusion ...


We ought to do it for SDF also. Don't know why we haven't ...


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## ChineseToTheBone

Figaro said:


> We ought to do it for SDF also. Don't know why we haven't ...


I have a question about Sino Defence Forum if you do not mind. My account never received the confirmation e-mail and is stuck for the last part of the registration process despite repeated attempts. Do you know how I can fix that?


----------



## Figaro

ChineseToTheBone said:


> I have a question about Sino Defence Forum if you do not mind. I am not sure why the confirmation e-mail for the creation of my account never arrived.


Directly contact their Facebook page ... it will take a long time waiting for confirmation

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## ChineseToTheBone

Thanks! I will do that.

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## samsara

Now it's clearer that PLAN will employ *NEW carrier-borne fighter* in the next aircraft carrier.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/899829257483964417His name is Zhao Dengping 赵登平

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> Now it's clearer that PLAN will employ *NEW carrier-borne fighter* in the next aircraft carrier.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/899829257483964417His name is Zhao Dengping 赵登平


I seriously doubt it. I'm pretty sure the poster is referring to a new variant of the J-15. A naval conversion of the J-20 or FC-31 would take years; way after 003 is done. The much more important portion is the "carrier-borne fixed wing AEW". That would mean that this carrier is certainly CATOBAR, probably EMALs.


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## samsara

Brainsucker said:


> I thought they are Chinese underwater greatwall or Chinese Unmanned Subs.


_May this article be the answer to what you asked?_

*China's quantum submarine detector could seal South China Sea | New Scientist (8/22)*

On 21 June, the Chinese Academy of Sciences hailed a breakthrough – a major upgrade to a kind of quantum device that measures magnetic fields. The announcement vanished after a journalist pointed out the invention’s potential military implications: it could help China lock down the South China Sea.

*SQUIDs are only one of the ways that China has been upgrading its anti-submarine capability over the last few years. The “Underwater Great Wall”, a string of submerged sensors, buoys and drone submarines, is thought to be close to completion. The project will help China extend its offshore surveillance zone.*

I just posted the New Scientist's article here.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chinas-submarine-fleet-evolution-news.302638/page-35#post-9797977

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## cirr

招标项目名称 *特种船舶研制保障条件建设项目重型总组平台 *

建设地点 上海市崇明县长兴岛长兴江南大道988号。位于港池北护岸后方陆域，西邻跃进河新建泵闸及跃进河，东部位待建4#总装场地，北侧为厂区2号道路。

工程规模描述
建设规模 本项目占地面积19956㎡,包含：1）新建重型总组平台；2）新建过渡道路；3）新建吊车轨道；4）新建纵向地沟；5）新建移动风雨棚基础。
其中：
1）*重型总组平台：宽50m，长350m，占地面积17500㎡*；
2）过渡道路：宽16m，长153.5m，占地面积2456㎡；
3）2组450T龙门吊轨道，1组32T门座式起重机轨道；另外场地内300T龙门吊一组，其轨道与450T与32T中各一根轨道共轨；
4）平台两侧均通长布置的纵向地沟，共2条，共计约683.74m长。每条地沟一般均分为动力地沟，水、动力合用地沟以及电气地沟三支；
5）移动风雨棚基础：轨距46.5m，单根轨道长度350m，轨道总长度700m。
项目类别 构筑物工程项目
工程总投资（万元） *485604万元人民 币*
标段建安造价
（万元） 14278.3万元人民 币
本标段最高投标限价（万元） 14277.3万元人民 币
施工工期（日历天） 180日历天



*特种船舶研制保障条件建设项目钢材预处理工场、油漆库、危废库及固废堆场*施工招标公告
上海 2017-09-02
T | T
招标编号： 招标编码：CBL_20170902_38860609
开标时间： 标讯类别： 国内招标
招标人：江南造船（集团）有限责任公司
资金来源： 其它 
报建编号 1501CM0036 标段号 C16
招标人 江南造船（集团）有限责任公司
招标项目名称 特种船舶研制保障条件建设项目钢材预处理工场、油漆库、危废库及固废堆场
建设地点 上海市崇明县长兴岛长兴江南大道988号
工程规模描述
建设规模 本项目新增建筑面积2467㎡,包含：1）新建钢材预处理工场；2）新建油漆库；3）新建危废库房；4）新建危废库棚；5）新建固废堆场。
其中：
1）钢材预处理工场：地上1层，项目占地面积1384㎡，建筑面积1236㎡,预处理工场为1层钢结构，铺房为2层钢筋混凝土框架结构，建筑高度13.95m,最大跨度15m；
2）油漆库：地上1层，项目占地面积737㎡，建筑面积737㎡,钢筋混凝土框架主体结构，钢结构屋面，建筑高度7.45m,最大跨度12m；
3）危废库房:地上1层，项目占地面积439㎡，建筑面积248㎡,钢筋混凝土框架结构主体结构，钢结构屋面，建筑高度6.15m，最大跨度10m；
4）危废库棚：地上1层，项目占地面积493㎡，建筑面积246㎡,钢结构,建筑高度7.15m，最大跨度20m；
5）固废堆场：项目占地面积610㎡。
项目类别 工业建筑
工程总投资（万元） 485604万元人民 币
标段建安造价
（万元） 1701.7万元人民 币
本标段最高投标限价（万元） 1613.6875万元人民 币
施工工期（日历天） 120日历天

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## Figaro

cirr said:


> 招标项目名称 *特种船舶研制保障条件建设项目重型总组平台 *
> 
> 建设地点 上海市崇明县长兴岛长兴江南大道988号。位于港池北护岸后方陆域，西邻跃进河新建泵闸及跃进河，东部位待建4#总装场地，北侧为厂区2号道路。
> 
> 工程规模描述
> 建设规模 本项目占地面积19956㎡,包含：1）新建重型总组平台；2）新建过渡道路；3）新建吊车轨道；4）新建纵向地沟；5）新建移动风雨棚基础。
> 其中：
> 1）*重型总组平台：宽50m，长350m，占地面积17500㎡*；
> 2）过渡道路：宽16m，长153.5m，占地面积2456㎡；
> 3）2组450T龙门吊轨道，1组32T门座式起重机轨道；另外场地内300T龙门吊一组，其轨道与450T与32T中各一根轨道共轨；
> 4）平台两侧均通长布置的纵向地沟，共2条，共计约683.74m长。每条地沟一般均分为动力地沟，水、动力合用地沟以及电气地沟三支；
> 5）移动风雨棚基础：轨距46.5m，单根轨道长度350m，轨道总长度700m。
> 项目类别 构筑物工程项目
> 工程总投资（万元） *485604万元人民 币*
> 标段建安造价
> （万元） 14278.3万元人民 币
> 本标段最高投标限价（万元） 14277.3万元人民 币
> 施工工期（日历天） 180日历天
> 
> 
> 
> *特种船舶研制保障条件建设项目钢材预处理工场、油漆库、危废库及固废堆场*施工招标公告
> 上海 2017-09-02
> T | T
> 招标编号： 招标编码：CBL_20170902_38860609
> 开标时间： 标讯类别： 国内招标
> 招标人：江南造船（集团）有限责任公司
> 资金来源： 其它
> 报建编号 1501CM0036 标段号 C16
> 招标人 江南造船（集团）有限责任公司
> 招标项目名称 特种船舶研制保障条件建设项目钢材预处理工场、油漆库、危废库及固废堆场
> 建设地点 上海市崇明县长兴岛长兴江南大道988号
> 工程规模描述
> 建设规模 本项目新增建筑面积2467㎡,包含：1）新建钢材预处理工场；2）新建油漆库；3）新建危废库房；4）新建危废库棚；5）新建固废堆场。
> 其中：
> 1）钢材预处理工场：地上1层，项目占地面积1384㎡，建筑面积1236㎡,预处理工场为1层钢结构，铺房为2层钢筋混凝土框架结构，建筑高度13.95m,最大跨度15m；
> 2）油漆库：地上1层，项目占地面积737㎡，建筑面积737㎡,钢筋混凝土框架主体结构，钢结构屋面，建筑高度7.45m,最大跨度12m；
> 3）危废库房:地上1层，项目占地面积439㎡，建筑面积248㎡,钢筋混凝土框架结构主体结构，钢结构屋面，建筑高度6.15m，最大跨度10m；
> 4）危废库棚：地上1层，项目占地面积493㎡，建筑面积246㎡,钢结构,建筑高度7.15m，最大跨度20m；
> 5）固废堆场：项目占地面积610㎡。
> 项目类别 工业建筑
> 工程总投资（万元） 485604万元人民 币
> 标段建安造价
> （万元） 1701.7万元人民 币
> 本标段最高投标限价（万元） 1613.6875万元人民 币
> 施工工期（日历天） 120日历天


Could you please translate this into English ... thanks


----------



## samsara

cirr said:


> 招标项目名称 *特种船舶研制保障条件建设项目重型总组平台 *
> 
> 建设地点 上海市崇明县长兴岛长兴江南大道988号。位于港池北护岸后方陆域，西邻跃进河新建泵闸及跃进河，东部位待建4#总装场地，北侧为厂区2号道路。
> 
> 工程规模描述
> 建设规模 本项目占地面积19956㎡,包含：1）新建重型总组平台；2）新建过渡道路；3）新建吊车轨道；4）新建纵向地沟；5）新建移动风雨棚基础。
> 其中：
> 1）*重型总组平台：宽50m，长350m，占地面积17500㎡*；
> 2）过渡道路：宽16m，长153.5m，占地面积2456㎡；
> 3）2组450T龙门吊轨道，1组32T门座式起重机轨道；另外场地内300T龙门吊一组，其轨道与450T与32T中各一根轨道共轨；
> 4）平台两侧均通长布置的纵向地沟，共2条，共计约683.74m长。每条地沟一般均分为动力地沟，水、动力合用地沟以及电气地沟三支；
> 5）移动风雨棚基础：轨距46.5m，单根轨道长度350m，轨道总长度700m。
> 项目类别 构筑物工程项目
> 工程总投资（万元） *485604万元人民 币*
> 标段建安造价
> （万元） 14278.3万元人民 币
> 本标段最高投标限价（万元） 14277.3万元人民 币
> 施工工期（日历天） 180日历天
> 
> 
> 
> *特种船舶研制保障条件建设项目钢材预处理工场、油漆库、危废库及固废堆场*施工招标公告
> 上海 2017-09-02
> T | T
> 招标编号： 招标编码：CBL_20170902_38860609
> 开标时间： 标讯类别： 国内招标
> 招标人：江南造船（集团）有限责任公司
> 资金来源： 其它
> 报建编号 1501CM0036 标段号 C16
> 招标人 江南造船（集团）有限责任公司
> 招标项目名称 特种船舶研制保障条件建设项目钢材预处理工场、油漆库、危废库及固废堆场
> 建设地点 上海市崇明县长兴岛长兴江南大道988号
> 工程规模描述
> 建设规模 本项目新增建筑面积2467㎡,包含：1）新建钢材预处理工场；2）新建油漆库；3）新建危废库房；4）新建危废库棚；5）新建固废堆场。
> 其中：
> 1）钢材预处理工场：地上1层，项目占地面积1384㎡，建筑面积1236㎡,预处理工场为1层钢结构，铺房为2层钢筋混凝土框架结构，建筑高度13.95m,最大跨度15m；
> 2）油漆库：地上1层，项目占地面积737㎡，建筑面积737㎡,钢筋混凝土框架主体结构，钢结构屋面，建筑高度7.45m,最大跨度12m；
> 3）危废库房:地上1层，项目占地面积439㎡，建筑面积248㎡,钢筋混凝土框架结构主体结构，钢结构屋面，建筑高度6.15m，最大跨度10m；
> 4）危废库棚：地上1层，项目占地面积493㎡，建筑面积246㎡,钢结构,建筑高度7.15m，最大跨度20m；
> 5）固废堆场：项目占地面积610㎡。
> 项目类别 工业建筑
> 工程总投资（万元） 485604万元人民 币
> 标段建安造价
> （万元） 1701.7万元人民 币
> 本标段最高投标限价（万元） 1613.6875万元人民 币
> 施工工期（日历天） 120日历天


It says about the issuance of a new bidding project: to construct a special ship development support facility, a heavy construction project in the Changxing Island, Shanghai, that is JNCX Shipyard... the construction area is as large as nearly 20,000 sq. meters which includes: 1) the new heavy assembly platform; 2) the new transitional road; 3) new crane rail; 4) the new vertical trench; 5) new mobile shelter base

Total investment of project (the whole new project incl. this part): around 4,856 millions RMB;
construction cost of bid section: around 143 millions RMB; project duration: 6 months

The 2nd project at that site/for the same company at below says:

The construction scale of the project new construction area of 2,467 square meters, including: 1) new steel pretreatment workshop; 2) new paint base; 3) new hazardous waste warehouse; 4) new hazardous waste storage shed; 5) new waste yard.
construction cost of bid section: around 17 millions RMB
project duration: 4 months

Noticing the figures?  These two projects are valued at more or less 143 & 17 mio respectively while the shipbuilder company has allocated fund as much as 4,856 millions RMB to build various new facilities there... means there are many more to construct at that site, the Changxing Island!!

Key message: the JNCX Shipyard is flourishing, has deep pocket, keep on building new facilities, thus one may expect that with more and better facilities, more new ships will come out at faster rate (as well as better quality)

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## cirr

Figaro said:


> Could you please translate this into English ... thanks



To cut a long story short, the general assembly of Type 003 CV is likely to happen in 2 years(at JN).

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## ChineseTiger1986

cirr said:


> To cut a long story short, the general assembly of Type 003 CV is likely to happen in 2 years(at JN).



Is the nuclear reactor mentioned by the CSSC the one that ready to be planned for the Type 003?

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Is the nuclear reactor mentioned by the CSSC the one that ready to be planned for the Type 003?


I thought they already said conventional with EMALS

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## Dungeness

cirr said:


> To cut a long story short, the general assembly of Type 003 CV is likely to happen in 2 years(at JN).



The total budget of 4.8 billion RMB including 003 CV itself?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> I thought they already said conventional with EMALS



Not 100% sure, everything can be possible right now.

The CSSC did hint that they have finished a new type of nuclear reactor on the land, and it is super classified, so most likely being tested for the nuclear supercarrier.

The test of the nuclear reactor for the submarine should belong as the job to the CSIC.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Not 100% sure, everything can be possible right now.
> 
> The CSSC did hint that they have finished a new type of nuclear reactor on the land, and it is super classified, so most likely being tested for the nuclear supercarrier.
> 
> The test of the nuclear reactor for the submarine should belong as the job to the CSIC.


But why not IEPs for the carrier like the Queen-Elizabeth class ... ? It's better than nuclear ... especially given Ma Weiming's work

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> But why not IEPs for the carrier like the Queen-Elizabeth class ... ? It's better than nuclear ...



China's ultimate goal is the nuclear carrier with the preferred unlimited range.

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## cirr

Dungeness said:


> The total budget of 4.8 billion RMB including 003 CV itself?



The cost of new facilities at JN for building strategic assets such as CV.

江南造船党委紧紧抓住发展海洋经济、建设海洋强国和强大国防的战略契机，瞄准成为“中国第一军工造船企业”的目标，将军工生产作为发展生命线和首要任务，军工核心地位和影响力更加突出。*江南造船还规划了适应未来装备建设需求的条件保障建设，将为公司实现战术产品向战略产品转型升级奠定基础。*

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## Han Patriot

Figaro said:


> But why not IEPs for the carrier like the Queen-Elizabeth class ... ? It's better than nuclear ... especially given Ma Weiming's work


Bro, IEPS can work with either diesel/MGO/Nuclear.

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## Figaro

Han Warrior said:


> Bro, IEPS can work with either diesel/MGO/Nuclear.


IEPs with conventional ... that's how the QE class does it

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## Dungeness

cirr said:


> The cost of new facilities at JN for building strategic assets such as CV.
> 
> 江南造船党委紧紧抓住发展海洋经济、建设海洋强国和强大国防的战略契机，瞄准成为“中国第一军工造船企业”的目标，将军工生产作为发展生命线和首要任务，军工核心地位和影响力更加突出。*江南造船还规划了适应未来装备建设需求的条件保障建设，将为公司实现战术产品向战略产品转型升级奠定基础。*




That's lot of money for facility alone.

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## Han Patriot

Figaro said:


> IEPs with conventional ... that's how the QE class does it


I would prefer IEPS with nuclear power.

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## waja2000

samsara said:


> It says about the issuance of a new bidding project: to construct a special ship development support facility, a heavy construction project in the Changxing Island, Shanghai, that is JNCX Shipyard... the construction area is as large as nearly 20,000 sq. meters which includes: 1) the new heavy assembly platform; 2) the new transitional road; 3) new crane rail; 4) the new vertical trench; 5) new mobile shelter base
> 
> Total investment of project (the whole new project incl. this part): around 4,856 millions RMB;
> construction cost of bid section: around 143 millions RMB; project duration: 6 months
> 
> The 2nd project at that site/for the same company at below says:
> 
> The construction scale of the project new construction area of 2,467 square meters, including: 1) new steel pretreatment workshop; 2) new paint base; 3) new hazardous waste warehouse; 4) new hazardous waste storage shed; 5) new waste yard.
> construction cost of bid section: around 17 millions RMB
> project duration: 4 months
> 
> Noticing the figures?  These two projects are valued at more or less 143 & 17 mio respectively while the shipbuilder company has allocated fund as much as 4,856 millions RMB to build various new facilities there... means there are many more to construct at that site, the Changxing Island!!
> 
> Key message: the JNCX Shipyard is flourishing, has deep pocket, keep on building new facilities, thus one may expect that with more and better facilities, more new ships will come out at faster rate (as well as better quality)



In news said will install 2x 450 tons gantry cranes seems not enough to construction Aircraft Carrier, minimum need should be around 1000 tons Goliath gantry cranes. but possible will make other Goliath gantry cranes purchase later.

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## GS Zhou

cirr said:


> 招标项目名称 *特种船舶研制保障条件建设项目重型总组平台 *
> 
> 建设地点 上海市崇明县长兴岛长兴江南大道988号。位于港池北护岸后方陆域，西邻跃进河新建泵闸及跃进河，东部位待建4#总装场地，北侧为厂区2号道路。


the news about the facility construction for building specialized vessel (*特种船舶*) at JNCX shows on internet since 2014 or 15. For example, the news below, which said the completion of a 1600T gantry crane at JNCX by Nov. 2015.

江南1600T龙门吊及研发设计楼项目顺利进行
发布时间：2015-11-24 16:27:06 

2015年11月24日，中船九院江南项目部参与全程设备项目管理的*特种船舶研制保障条件建设项目4号坞1600T龙门吊*顺利完成总装吊装。项目部克服了设备制造周期短、工作体量大、吊装难度高等诸多难点，按期完成了1600T龙门吊的重大吊装，得到了业主方的充分肯定。

另外，距离1600T起重机不远的研发设计楼项目也正如火如荼地建设中。该项目将是江南造船基地内除总办大楼之外的另一个标志性建筑，受到江南厂与集团领导的极大关注，中船九院领导及项目部成员也为之付出极大心血。11月24日孙伟军副总亲赴现场视察并督促工作。(廉佳衡、嵇秉浩）



Dungeness said:


> That's lot of money for facility alone.


4.8 billion RMB is a big amount of money. But considering the project's extreme importance to China's national security, I would say this is a good investment. 

If we spend 4.8 billion RMB in other area, we can get, for example 40km metro line, or 30km high speed rail line. Compared the metro line, or high speed rail line, vs. a modernized facility for aircraft carriers building, I would say the latter is a better choice.



waja2000 said:


> In news said will install 2x 450 tons gantry cranes seems not enough to construction Aircraft Carrier, minimum need should be around 1000 tons Goliath gantry cranes. but possible will make other Goliath gantry cranes purchase later.


a 1600T crane already completed at JNCX in two years ago. You can refer to my news sharing above.

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## lmjiao

EMALS for Type 003
link: https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2411412

This is actually screen shot of some video.
Lets wait for someone to leak the video.

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## Deino

lmjiao said:


> View attachment 423479
> 
> EMALS for Type 003
> link: https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2411412
> 
> This is actually screen shot of some video.
> Lets wait for someone to leak the video.




Uiii 
Another part of the already revealed image ...

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## lmjiao

Deino said:


> Uiii
> Another part of the already revealed image ...
> 
> View attachment 423481


I guess these might be different frames of same video.

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## lmjiao

lmjiao said:


> View attachment 423479
> 
> EMALS for Type 003
> link: https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2411412
> 
> This is actually screen shot of some video.
> Lets wait for someone to leak the video.


This figure has been deleted by the author already in Chinese forums.

Luckily I have uploaded it here.

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## Galactic Penguin SST

*China hires Ukrainian engineer of aircraft carrier the Varyag (Liaoning)*

September 06, 2017

Recently, news related to China’s first aircraft carrier the Liaoning was widely circulated among Chinese military enthusiasts.

Ukrainian engineer Valery Vasilevich Babich, the chief designer of the Varyag, the predecessor of the Liaoning, was hired by a ship research and design institute company in Qingdao, east China’s Shandong province.

Valery has called the Liaoning no ordinary training ship, and its historical mission is to provide necessary theoretical and technical support for the localization of China’s successor aircraft carriers. He also believes the Liaoning will shine brilliantly, and its operational performance is likely to be far ahead of the Varyag.

The Liaoning, China's first aircraft carrier, was refitted from the former Ukrainian vessel, Varyag.







Spoiler



http://en.people.cn/NMediaFile/2017/0906/FOREIGN201709061416000046402011323.jpg
http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0906/c90000-9265324.html



▲ Ukrainian engineer Valery Vasilevich Babich, the chief designer of the Varyag

http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0906/c90000-9265324.html

Not only North Koreans being able to attract former Soviet Union's scientists...

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## Deino

Galactic Penguin SST said:


> *China hires Ukrainian engineer of aircraft carrier the Varyag (Liaoning)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> http://en.people.cn/NMediaFile/2017/0906/FOREIGN201709061416000046402011323.jpg
> http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0906/c90000-9265324.html
> 
> 
> ▲ Ukrainian engineer Valery Vasilevich Babich, the chief designer of the Varyag






Galactic Penguin SST said:


> *China hires Ukrainian engineer of aircraft carrier the Varyag (Liaoning)*



This is a faked report. From what I know this is plain BS.  Russians are just citing Chinese sources, which are now reposted again and again. Babich himself has told that this is BS.

via:



> "Alexander Ermakov (Aleksandr Ermakov) Dylan Malyasov the story has a continuation, if not fake "I received a response directly from Valery Vasilyevich: Hello, Oleg! Today I fell asleep with such questions. I'm not going to move to China and I was not offered any job there for aircraft carriers. All that is written about me in this article is in Wikipedia under the heading "Babich Valery Vasilyevich" and even more. And about moving to China came up with yourself. You can tell these words from me if you have access to these sources. Yours faithfully, Valery Babich. "



Uppps ... forgot the link:





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10156604993767166

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## Daniel808

lmjiao said:


> This figure has been deleted by the author already in Chinese forums.
> 
> Luckily I have uploaded it here.



Why they deleted it, Is this photo really sensitive?

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## Galactic Penguin SST

Deino said:


> This is a faked report. From what I know this is plain BS.  Russians are just citing Chinese sources, which are now reposted again and again. Babich himself has told that this is BS.
> 
> via:
> 
> 
> 
> Uppps ... forgot the link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10156604993767166




This remind one of the story of the CVN Varyag, or more recently that of the Paektusan-1 rocket engine.

_19 January, 2015

The shipbuilder did not want the hulk to be used for military purposes, so Xu's team told the Ukrainians that they would turn the vessel into the world's largest floating hotel and casino.

To that end, in August 1997, Xu set up a Macau shell company, Agencia Turistica e Diversoes Chong Lot, and spent HK$6 million getting the necessary documents for a casino. Four months later, in January 1998, he put his other businesses on the backburner and flew to Ukraine to negotiate with the shipbuilder and government officials.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/arti...ing-became-middleman-chinas-deal-buy-liaoning
_​

All the major Chinese websites have reported the news, and the company exist!!: 








Spoiler



http://himg2.huanqiu.com/attachment2010/2017/0904/20170904013332312.jpg
http://china.huanqiu.com/article/2017-09/11211403.html


▲ 辽宁舰前身总师瓦列里来华受聘：参与设计建造了苏联所有航母


But the said company website is only accessible via the google cache...

Baidu baike link : https://baike.baidu.com/item/青岛中乌特种船舶研究设计院有限公司


Official website of 青岛中乌特种船舶研究设计院有限公司 : http://www.qdcusa.com/

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## samsara

Galactic Penguin SST said:


> This remind one of the story of the CVN Varyag, or more recently that of the Paektusan-1 rocket engine.
> 
> _19 January, 2015
> 
> The shipbuilder did not want the hulk to be used for military purposes, so Xu's team told the Ukrainians that they would turn the vessel into the world's largest floating hotel and casino.
> 
> To that end, in August 1997, Xu set up a Macau shell company, Agencia Turistica e Diversoes Chong Lot, and spent HK$6 million getting the necessary documents for a casino. Four months later, in January 1998, he put his other businesses on the backburner and flew to Ukraine to negotiate with the shipbuilder and government officials.
> 
> http://www.scmp.com/news/china/arti...ing-became-middleman-chinas-deal-buy-liaoning
> _​


MOTIVE.... I can grasp the Xu's story --with ease-- for he had motive!

But what's the motive of the said fake story on the Ukrainian, Babich??? I just don't get the motive here.

Does anyone?

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## Dungeness

samsara said:


> MOTIVE.... I can grasp the Xu's story --with ease-- for he had motive!
> 
> But what's the motive of the said fake story on the Ukrainian, Babich??? I just don't get the motive here.
> 
> Does anyone?



I don't know Russian's motive but I am sure Indians will jump on this fake news and belittle Chinese own effort.

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## Galactic Penguin SST

samsara said:


> MOTIVE.... I can grasp the Xu's story --with ease-- for he had motive!
> 
> But what's the motive of the said fake story on the Ukrainian, Babich??? I just don't get the motive here.
> 
> Does anyone?



Chinese sites like Peopledaily, Huanqiu have all confirmed the news, how could this be totally groundless?
And the said chief engineer is totally wasted as of present: "Valery Babich engaged in literary and journalistic activities since 2000."

Maybe some good news from China, like the Korean Paektusan 80-tons force rocket engine...

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## Figaro

Galactic Penguin SST said:


> Chinese sites like Peopledaily, Huanqiu have all confirmed the news, how could this be totally groundless?
> And the said chief engineer is totally wasted as of present: "Valery Babich engaged in literary and journalistic activities since 2000."
> 
> Maybe some good news from China, like the Korean Paektusan 80-tons force rocket engine...


Fake news ...

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## Dungeness

Galactic Penguin SST said:


> Chinese sites like Peopledaily, Huanqiu have all confirmed the news, how could this be totally groundless?
> And the said chief engineer is totally wasted as of present: "Valery Babich engaged in literary and journalistic activities since 2000."
> 
> Maybe some good news from China, like the Korean Paektusan 80-tons force rocket engine...




I read the report which only stated Babich was working for a newly found Chinese special ship designing institute. The report did mention Babich's past achievements in Ukraine as a ship designer.

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## Galactic Penguin SST

Galactic Penguin SST said:


> Chinese sites like Peopledaily, Huanqiu have all confirmed the news, how could this be totally groundless?
> And the said chief engineer is totally wasted as of present: "Valery Babich engaged in literary and journalistic activities since 2000."
> 
> Maybe some good news from China, like the Korean Paektusan 80-tons force rocket engine...





* 仿美尼米兹航母有成 瓦良格之父投效中国 带来3大技术 [复制链接] *

2017-9-6

Analysis pointed out that via Babich, China has secured the three most critical technologies, that are *the catapult, nuclear power and deck layout*

中国第一艘航母「辽寧」舰服役后，一举一动令人关注。而最近更引人热议的，就是「辽寧」舰前身「瓦良格」号航母的乌克兰总工程师巴比奇（Valery Babich）投效中国，获聘青岛中乌特种船舶研究设计院有限公司。


巴比奇现年76岁，1941年1月27日出生于乌克兰，他可说是与中国交流最多的国外航母专家，受聘中国其实并不令人意外。他打造航母的资歷丰富，参与设计建造了苏联时期所有航母。凤凰网的军事评论指出，巴比奇至少能为未来中国航母提供3项关键技术。

在巴比奇先后参与打造苏联直升机航母「莫斯科」号和「列寧格勒」号的武器系统。接着身为设计主力，核心设计师与首席设计师先后参与「基辅」号、「明斯克」号、「新罗西斯克」号、「巴库」号、「库兹涅佐夫」号，「瓦良格」号与「乌里扬诺夫斯克」的设计建造。


然而，分析指出，在这些航母中，除了未建成的「乌里扬诺夫斯克」号外，对中国都没什么实质意义。而他真正的价值，却在履歷上没写的一艘关键航母——1160型航母。

1160型航母又名为「奥廖尔」级航母，它是苏联在美国「尼米兹」级航母服役后，完全参照对方的技术指标，而设计的一款弹射起飞、拦阻降落的巨型核动力航母。


儘管苏联涅瓦设计局只用了短短5年（1970-1975），就完成了1160型航母的全部设计，但最后却遭当时全力发展搭载垂直起降战机航母的国防部长乌斯季诺夫加以否决。而当时巴比奇不仅参与了1160型航母的设计，日后他设计的「库兹涅佐夫」级航母也大量採用了1160型航母的技术。

分析指出，对中国最有价值的，就是巴比奇打造1160型航母的资歷。儘管目前中国基本上完成了002型航母的建造，*但要打造8-10万吨级航母仍是异常艰难，其中至少3项关键技术，就需要巴比奇这样的专家才能迅速获得突破*。首先是弹射器的布置，先前中国虽然从「墨尔本」号航母上获得了弹射器的基本布局资料，但当时弹射器已被拆毁。也因此，巴比奇掌握的1160型航母弹射器结构技术资料，就显得相当重要。

除了弹射器布局，1160型航母方案在末期计画搭载的舰载机正是苏27K（苏33），因此弹射器完全是根据苏-33战机的需求设计，而中国的歼-15舰载机又酷似苏-33战机。分析指出，巴比奇能为中国提供有关弹射器，以及机型匹配布置方面的技术与经验。

除了弹射器外，另一项关键技术，就是航母核动力装置布局。1160型航母採用两套「基洛夫」级巡洋舰的核动力装置（KN-3压水堆×4），而这套装置在他负责的「乌里扬诺夫斯克」号航母上重现。


巴比奇仿造美国「尼米兹」级航母已有心得，对积极打造巨型核动力航母的中国极具价值

分析指出，KN-3压水堆本身的技术价值不大，而身为航母总师的巴比奇也未必能掌握。他所掌握的是10万吨级核航母的动力舱布置，其中除了涉及压水堆安装，还包含大量管线布置，以及舱室安置与安全防护。

而这些正是航母设计总师所负责的核心工作，因此巴比奇在这些方面的建议，对中国建造巨型核动力航母而言，无疑相当重要。而相对于弹射器与核动力动力布置这种航母本身的关键技术，巴比奇掌握的另一项关键技术往往很容易被忽略，那就是甲板布置。

纵观苏联航母发展，1160型航母是苏联设计完成的唯一具备弹射起飞，以及拦阻降落能力的大型航母，1160型航母也就成了唯一在舰载机数量上能匹敌美国航母的苏联航母。因此，1160型航母包括机库、升降机与甲板在内的整个甲板布置体系，决定了近100架舰载机的最大出动效率。而这种高效甲板布置体系，除了美国航母外，仅有胎死腹中的1160型航母才具备，而在这方面，巴比奇对要建造巨型航母的中国的价值可想而知。

分析指出，弹射器、核动力与甲板布置，是中国能从巴比奇身上获得的3项最关键技术，这些技术在可预见的时期，无论是对乌克兰还是俄罗斯都已没有实质意义，或许中国才是类似巴比奇这种「苏联航母设计师」实现未竟事业的天堂。

(中时电子报)

http://www.chinatimes.com/cn/realtimenews/20170905005249-260417

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## samsara

Figaro said:


> Fake news ...


Fake news from the People's Daily Online, part of 人民日报 ???

Then please tell us again what's the MOTIVE of the People's Daily to fake such news??? 

The PD's terse article mentioned No year info but I guess Babich was hired during the Liaoning's reconstruction... so it quite makes sense. I think it's the Ukrainian who had the motive to disown his past involvement with China... while the Chinese major media suffer no inferior-complex to openly admit the contribution of the Varyag's chief designer 

I think that Babich should have signed the 20-30 year-long NDA with his former employer at first

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## Galactic Penguin SST

samsara said:


> Fake news from the People's Daily Online, part of 人民日报 ???
> 
> Then please tell us again what's the MOTIVE of the People's Daily to fake such news???
> 
> The PD's terse article mentioned No year info but I guess Babich was hired during the Liaoning's reconstruction... so it quite makes sense. I think it's the Ukrainian who had the motive to disown his past involvement with China... while the Chinese major media suffer no inferior-complex to openly admit the contribution of the Varyag's chief designer
> 
> I think that Babich should have signed the 20-30 year-long NDA with his former employer at first


Not fake news. Liaoning is not a nuclear propulsion ship. It is clearly mentioned he helps in the development of the post Type 002 CV.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Galactic Penguin SST said:


> Not fake news. Liaoning is not a nuclear propulsion ship. It is clearly mentioned he helps in the development of the post Type 002 CV.



This news has emphasized the importance of the project 1143.7, so maybe this could suggest that the Type 003 has the chance to become nuclear powered?

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## samsara

A video on *CV-18 TYPE 002*, uploaded on 03 September 2017 -- Spoken Chinese with No EngSub

_First exposure!! China's 002 aircraft carrier resembles to the Kitty Hawk!_
*首次曝光！！中国002航母类似小鹰号！*

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## ChineseTiger1986

samsara said:


> A video on *CV-18 TYPE 002*, uploaded on 03 September 2017 -- Spoken Chinese with No EngSub
> 
> _First exposure!! China's 002 aircraft carrier resembles to the Kitty Hawk!_
> *首次曝光！！中国002航母类似小鹰号！*



That's an old news, and these modules all belong to the tanker which being built in the shipyard alongside the Type 002 (formerly the Type 001A).

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## Deino

*STOP !!!!*



Galactic Penguin SST said:


> * 仿美尼米兹航母有成 瓦良格之父投效中国 带来3大技术 [复制链接] *
> 
> 2017-9-6
> 
> Analysis pointed out that via Babich, China has secured the three most critical technologies, that are *the catapult, nuclear power and deck layout*





samsara said:


> ...
> ... *but I guess Babich was hired during the Liaoning's reconstruction*... ...



*
Just again !!! .... this is a fake, a blatant lie !!!

Babich never got a contract nor was contacted. He directly refuted this stupid report in the interview I posted.*

Deino

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## ChineseTiger1986

I think this news has been sensationalized, but it is likely that Mr. Babich could share some of his designing experience with the designers of the Type 003.

The catapult and the nuclear reactor will definitely be Chinese.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I think this news has been sensationalized, but it is likely that Mr. Babich will share some of his designing experience with the designers of the Type 003.
> 
> The catapult and the nuclear reactor will definitely be Chinese.


I seriously doubt it ... I believe it is pure Chinese ingenuity ... the Russian and Ukrainian help is often heavily overstated as in the case of Liaoning



Galactic Penguin SST said:


> This remind one of the story of the CVN Varyag, or more recently that of the Paektusan-1 rocket engine.
> 
> _19 January, 2015
> 
> The shipbuilder did not want the hulk to be used for military purposes, so Xu's team told the Ukrainians that they would turn the vessel into the world's largest floating hotel and casino.
> 
> To that end, in August 1997, Xu set up a Macau shell company, Agencia Turistica e Diversoes Chong Lot, and spent HK$6 million getting the necessary documents for a casino. Four months later, in January 1998, he put his other businesses on the backburner and flew to Ukraine to negotiate with the shipbuilder and government officials.
> 
> http://www.scmp.com/news/china/arti...ing-became-middleman-chinas-deal-buy-liaoning
> _​
> 
> All the major Chinese websites have reported the news, and the company exist!!:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> http://himg2.huanqiu.com/attachment2010/2017/0904/20170904013332312.jpg
> http://china.huanqiu.com/article/2017-09/11211403.html
> 
> 
> ▲ 辽宁舰前身总师瓦列里来华受聘：参与设计建造了苏联所有航母
> 
> 
> But the said company website is only accessible via the google cache...
> 
> Baidu baike link : https://baike.baidu.com/item/青岛中乌特种船舶研究设计院有限公司
> 
> 
> Official website of 青岛中乌特种船舶研究设计院有限公司 : http://www.qdcusa.com/


You really need to stop reposting false info ...



Galactic Penguin SST said:


> Not fake news. Liaoning is not a nuclear propulsion ship. It is clearly mentioned he helps in the development of the post Type 002 CV.


No he didn't ... there is no indication that he helped other than erroneous reporting

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> I seriously doubt it ... I believe it is pure Chinese ingenuity ... the Russian and Ukrainian help is often heavily overstated as in the case of Liaoning



If the Type 003 is nuclear powered, then everything has to be purely Chinese, but it is about the design layout of a nuclear supercarrier with the catapults that Mr. Babich could contribute some of his past experience with the Chinese designers.

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## Deino

New update at Wuhan ...

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> New update at Wuhan ...
> 
> View attachment 423586



The island looks very tall, like that of the CVN-78.

If there is no funnel, then it is a CVN. Otherwise, it is just follows the plan.

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## Brainsucker

Deino said:


> *STOP !!!!
> Just again !!! .... this is a fake, a blatant lie !!!
> 
> Babich never got a contract nor was contacted. He directly refuted this stupid report in the interview I posted.*
> 
> Deino



Even if it's fake news, I don't think that it's bad for China to recruit Mr. Babich. If they haven't, they should start it now. Having a clever man like him will benefit PRC more in the future. Why should Chinese top genius limited to Han Ethnicity only? Just look at the long China history. That's the reason why Qin won in the 7 kingdoms era. That's because they didn't care about nationality of their talents. Many of their main thinkers came from other countries. That's why they won.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Brainsucker said:


> Even if it's fake news, I don't think that it's bad for China to recruit Mr. Babich. If they haven't, they should start it now. Having a clever man like him will benefit PRC more in the future. Why should Chinese top genius limited to Han Ethnicity only? Just look at the long China history. That's the reason why Qin won in the 7 kingdoms era. That's because they didn't care about nationality of their talents. Many of their main thinkers came from other countries. That's why they won.



Mr. Babich is an old comrade, the Chinese ship building industry indeed welcomes his expertise.

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## lmjiao

Daniel808 said:


> Why they deleted it, Is this photo really sensitive?


Yes, it is sensitive. This always happens for this kind of figures.

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## waja2000

GS Zhou said:


> the news about the facility construction for building specialized vessel (*特种船舶*) at JNCX shows on internet since 2014 or 15. For example, the news below, which said the completion of a 1600T gantry crane at JNCX by Nov. 2015.
> 
> 江南1600T龙门吊及研发设计楼项目顺利进行
> 发布时间：2015-11-24 16:27:06
> 
> 2015年11月24日，中船九院江南项目部参与全程设备项目管理的*特种船舶研制保障条件建设项目4号坞1600T龙门吊*顺利完成总装吊装。项目部克服了设备制造周期短、工作体量大、吊装难度高等诸多难点，按期完成了1600T龙门吊的重大吊装，得到了业主方的充分肯定。
> 
> 4.8 billion RMB is a big amount of money. But considering the project's extreme importance to China's national security, I would say this is a good investment.
> If we spend 4.8 billion RMB in other area, we can get, for example 40km metro line, or 30km high speed rail line. Compared the metro line, or high speed rail line, vs. a modernized facility for aircraft carriers building, I would say the latter is a better choice.
> a 1600T crane already completed at JNCX in two years ago. You can refer to my news sharing above.



For 1600T crane i know, it install at JNCX #4 dry dock.
but early post 4.8b is new shipyard project near new JNCX watergate at East side. size 350x50 dry yard.

Just my view...


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## Figaro

Brainsucker said:


> Even if it's fake news, I don't think that it's bad for China to recruit Mr. Babich. If they haven't, they should start it now. Having a clever man like him will benefit PRC more in the future. Why should Chinese top genius limited to Han Ethnicity only? Just look at the long China history. That's the reason why Qin won in the 7 kingdoms era. That's because they didn't care about nationality of their talents. Many of their main thinkers came from other countries. That's why they won.


What does this have to do with "Han ethnicity"? Miao, Zhuang, Tibetan, and countless other minorities are all Chinese and contribute to the Chinese scientific sector. Unfortunately, Mr. Babich is of Ukranian ethnicity, and it seems that these sensationalist headlines are deliberately meant to discredit Chinese ingenuity (whether of Han or any other Chinese minority ethnicity).

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## GS Zhou

waja2000 said:


> for 1600T crane i know, it install at JNCX #4 dry yard.
> but early post 4.8b is new shipyard project near new JNCX watergate at East side. size 350x50 dry yard.


the 1600T crane is also part of this 4.8B project that called as: 特种船舶研制保障条件建设项目. 

Investment on the new 350x50 yard alone is about RMB 150million.

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## waja2000

GS Zhou said:


> the 1600T crane is also part of this 4.8B project that called as: 特种船舶研制保障条件建设项目.
> Investment on the new 350x50 yard alone is about RMB 150million.



what i means is new 003 (assume JNCX get deal) AC will built in JNCX #4 dry dock (with 1600T crane) or in new shipyard... which in plan. and no heavy crane.


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## GS Zhou

waja2000 said:


> what i means is new 003 (assume JNCX get deal) AC will built in JNCX #4 dry dock (with 1600T crane) or in new shipyard... which in plan. and no heavy crane.


I bet the final assembly must be in #4 dry dock.

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## Brainsucker

Figaro said:


> What does this have to do with "Han ethnicity"? Miao, Zhuang, Tibetan, and countless other minorities are all Chinese and contribute to the Chinese scientific sector. Unfortunately, Mr. Babich is of Ukranian ethnicity, and it seems that these sensationalist headlines are deliberately meant to discredit Chinese ingenuity (whether of Han or any other Chinese minority ethnicity).



Isn't that what the other people want to press? As long as it's not purely Han Ethnicity figures who involve in the project, it's not genuinely made in China. That's why the incoming of Mr. Babich make people afraid that other people (trolls) will used it to discredit AC project as not purely built by China.

It's also happen when Vietnamese declared that the carpenters that built Tian An Men had Vietnamese Blood, or Bruce Lee had some German ancestor blood, etc. And the Chinese Fan boys enrage because they consider that it's a kind of scheme to belittle Chinese as incompetent. But they're forgot, that actually, it doesn't matter.


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## Figaro

Brainsucker said:


> Isn't that what the other people want to press? As long as it's not purely Han Ethnicity figures who involve in the project, it's not genuinely made in China. That's why the incoming of Mr. Babich make people afraid that other people (trolls) will used it to discredit AC project as not purely built by China.
> 
> It's also happen when Vietnamese declared that the carpenters that built Tian An Men had Vietnamese Blood, or Bruce Lee had some German ancestor blood, etc. And the Chinese Fan boys enrage because they consider that it's a kind of scheme to belittle Chinese as incompetent. But they're forgot, that actually, it doesn't matter.


No one is pressing anything here ... you're confusing the Han ethnicity with all of China. To be Chinese does not exclusively mean to be Han Chinese as what you're suggesting. The fallacious report of Babich is absolutely *intended *to discredit Chinese naval aviation technology; the emphasis on his Ukrainian background implies (albeit wrongly) that China is still backward and relies upon foreign experts. The Babich article was a sensationalist and false article, hence it was widely-criticized by many Chinese members.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The island looks very tall, like that of the CVN-78.
> 
> If there is no funnel, then it is a CVN. Otherwise, it is just follows the plan.


I am concerned if this mock-up actually resembles the 003 island; it seems rather tall and wide, similar to those of the Liaoning and 002 carrier. I am under the impression that the PLAN will shrink the island at least to the size of the Nimitz's, preferably closer to the Ford class. What's the point of having a huge island that only takes up space?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> I am concerned if this mock-up actually resembles the 003 island; it seems rather tall and wide, similar to those of the Liaoning and 002 carrier. I am under the impression that the PLAN will shrink the island at least to the size of the Nimitz's, preferably closer to the Ford class. What's the point of having a huge island that only takes up space?



Without the funnel in the middle, the length of the island structure will become greatly shrunken.

We will eventually see the true island on the Type 003, and the mockup island does look taller than that of both CV-16 and CV-17 because it got the dual x/s band radars that need to be mounted on the taller structure.

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## samsara

Brainsucker said:


> Isn't that what the other people want to press? As long as it's not purely Han Ethnicity figures who involve in the project, it's not genuinely made in China. That's why the incoming of Mr. Babich make people afraid that other people (trolls) will used it to discredit AC project as not purely built by China.
> 
> It's also happen when Vietnamese declared that the carpenters that built Tian An Men had Vietnamese Blood, or Bruce Lee had some German ancestor blood, etc. And the Chinese Fan boys enrage because they consider that it's a kind of scheme to belittle Chinese as incompetent. But they're forgot, that actually, it doesn't matter.


What kind of info you are throwing here??? Do you understand that the *modern China* is a nation of *56 ethnicities *with the Han Chinese as one among the 56 ethnic groups, it just happens that the Han Chinese has the overwhelming majority, about 90% of the population. Please do not post arbitrary info here if you have no idea about the nation concept of the modern China, i.e. the PRC. And this is not the right forum to delve into the Chinese long history, values, traditions & cultures, outlook and world views, nation-building & politics and so on... but if it's deviated too far then it stands to be corrected.

*56 Ethnic Groups in China*

The following Chinese ethnic groups are listed by their population (_sorted from high to low_):


> 01. Han 汉族
> 02. Zhuang 壮族
> 03. Manchu 满族
> 04. Hui 回族
> 05. Miao/Hmong 苗族
> 06. Uyghur 维吾尔族
> 07. Yi 彝族
> 08. Tujia 土家族
> 09. Mongolian 蒙古族
> 10. Tibetan 藏族
> 11. Buyei 布依族
> 12. Dong/Kam 侗族
> 13. Yao/Mien 瑶族
> 14. Korean 朝鲜族
> 15. Bai 白族
> 16. Hani 哈尼族
> 17. Li 黎族
> 18. Kazakh 哈萨克族
> 19. Dai 傣族
> 20. She 畲族
> 21. Lisu 傈僳族
> 22. Gelao 仡佬族
> 23. Lahu 拉祜族
> 24. Gaoshan 高山族
> 25. Dongxiang 东乡族
> 26. Wa/Va 佤族
> 27. Shui/Sui 水族
> 28. Naxi/Nakhi 纳西族
> 29. Qiang 羌族
> 30. Tu 土族
> 31. Xibo/Xibe 锡伯族
> 32. Mulao 仫佬族
> 33. Kyrgyz/Kirghiz 柯尔克孜族
> 34. Daur 达斡尔族
> 35. Jingpo 景颇族
> 36. Salar 撒拉族
> 37. Blang 布朗族
> 38. Maonan 毛南族
> 39. Tajik 塔吉克族
> 40. Pumi 普米族
> 41. Achang 阿昌族
> 42. Nu 怒族
> 43. Ewenki 鄂温克族
> 44. Jing/Kihn 京族
> 45. Jino 基诺族
> 46. De-Ang 德昂族
> 47. Uzbek 乌孜别克族
> 48. Bao-An 保安族
> 49. Russian 俄罗斯族
> 50. Yugur 裕固族
> 51. Monba 门巴族
> 52. Oroqen 鄂伦春族
> 53. Derung 独龙族
> 54. Tatar 塔塔尔族
> 55. Hezhe/Hezhen 赫哲族
> 56. Lhoba 珞巴族


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## Brainsucker

samsara said:


> What kind of misleading info you are throwing here??? Do you understand that the *modern China* is a nation of *56 ethnicities *with the Han Chinese as one among the 56 ethnic groups, it just happens that the Han Chinese has the overwhelming majority, about 90% of the population. Please do not post arbitrary info here if you have no idea about the nation concept of the modern China, i.e. the PRC. And this is not the right forum to delve into the Chinese long history, values & traditions, outlook and world views, nation-building & politics and so on... but if it's deviated too far then it stands to be corrected.
> 
> *56 Ethnic Groups in China*
> 
> The following Chinese ethnic groups are listed by their population (_sorted from valueshigh to low_):



I think it is you who miss understood my post here. I don't have any intention to say about modern China consist only Han ethnicity alone, and actually I don't care on how many ethnicity there in China. What my post said was about how people discredit China advancement just because there are some experts that's actually from Foreign Origin. Like those Vietnamese Carpenters who built Tian An Men in Ming Dynasty, A Korean General who lead Tang's army in a conquest to the west, etc; while actually their nationality / ethnicity were not matter. As they are all work for Chinese Empire / Government.

That's it.

Why do I care that PRC has 56 Ethnicity? Plus, all Chinese experts that I know (like Ma, etc), have Han name. So whatever they are Han or Ethnic minority, they have Han name.


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## samsara

Brainsucker said:


> I think it is you who miss understood my post here. I don't have any intention to say about modern China consist only Han ethnicity alone, and actually I don't care on how many ethnicity there in China. What my post said was about how people discredit China advancement just because there are some experts that's actually from Foreign Origin. Like those Vietnamese Carpenters who built Tian An Men in Ming Dynasty, A Korean General who lead Tang's army in a conquest to the west, etc; while actually their nationality / ethnicity were not matter. As they are all work for Chinese Empire / Government.
> 
> That's it.
> delevry
> Why do I care that PRC has 56 Ethnicity?


But such post is not relevant at all here!!

And why you at the first place compiled such ignorant and ridiculous lines from the few morons elsewhere (and dunno where) and then put it here?   Frankly I don't know from where you collected the trashes so I can only shoot the messenger or delivery man... even though it does not represent your own thought as you said.


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## Brainsucker

samsara said:


> But such post is not relevant at all here!!
> 
> And why you at the first place compiled such ignorant and ridiculous lines from the few morons elsewhere (and dunno where) and then put it here?



You must see the context of my first posts. It was a talk about Mr. Babich. The same few morons elsewhere can use him to discredit your advancement in Aircraft Carrier development.


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## samsara

Brainsucker said:


> You must see the context of my first posts. It was a talk about Mr. Babich. The same few morons elsewhere _*can use him to discredit*_ your advancement in Aircraft Carrier development.


Ha ha ha next time you cross over those morons please kindly tell them that the Chinese people are not such petty and narrow minded people.... and that China will openly welcome any true contribution from any individual who will bring in the progress!

Had China been so narrow minded the world would have not seen the Beijing 2008 Summer Olympic's iconic buildings like the National Stadium aka. the Bird's Nest and the National Aquatics Center alias the Water Cube at their present forms

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## Brainsucker

samsara said:


> Ha ha ha next time you cross over those morons please kindly tell them that the Chinese people are not such petty and narrow minded people.... and that China will openly welcome any true contribution from any individual who will bring in the progress!
> 
> Had China been so narrow minded the world would have not seen the Beijing 2008 Summer Olympic's iconic buildings like the National Stadium aka. the Bird's Nest and the National Aquatics Center alias the Water Cube at their present forms



That's what I mean in my post bro. At last, we have the same perspective here.

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## samsara

Brainsucker said:


> That's what I mean in my post bro. At last, we have the same perspective here.


Ha ha ha okay i see let's move on before others feel annoyed

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## lmjiao

Rumour from weibo says that type 003 will start construction at the end of this month.

Edit: 9.28 Shanghai

Link: https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2411724

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## cirr

lmjiao said:


> Rumour from weibo says that type 003 will start construction at the end of this month.
> 
> Link: https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2411724



Started over 2 months ago.

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## lmjiao

cirr said:


> Started over 2 months ago.


9.28 Shanghai.

There will be more confermation. Let's wait.

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## Deino

lmjiao said:


> 9.28 Shanghai.
> 
> There will be more confermation. Let's wait.




Pardon, but why on 9.28 ??? What's so special with this date?

By the way, I thought 003 construction has indeed already started in July?

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## samsara

I recall reading the previous posts somewhere perhaps in this thread that *steel cutting* was kicked off at the end of June 2017, in JNCX shipyard. Unless the start of construction has other meaning than the steel cutting.

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> I recall reading the previous posts somewhere perhaps in this thread that *steel cutting* was kicked off at the end of June 2017, in JNCX shipyard. Unless the start of construction has other meaning than the steel cutting.


Not true ... steel cutting began in 2015 and was confirmed by CSSC head ... assembly was delayed due to EMALs competition but parts were delivered

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## Figaro

Brainsucker said:


> I think it is you who miss understood my post here. I don't have any intention to say about modern China consist only Han ethnicity alone, and actually I don't care on how many ethnicity there in China. What my post said was about how people discredit China advancement just because there are some experts that's actually from Foreign Origin. Like those Vietnamese Carpenters who built Tian An Men in Ming Dynasty, A Korean General who lead Tang's army in a conquest to the west, etc; while actually their nationality / ethnicity were not matter. As they are all work for Chinese Empire / Government.
> 
> That's it.
> 
> Why do I care that PRC has 56 Ethnicity? Plus, all Chinese experts that I know (like Ma, etc), have Han name. So whatever they are Han or Ethnic minority, they have Han name.


Your last sentence and your general argument contradict themselves. It's obvious that you're implying that all Chinese intellectuals are of Han origin ... something that isn't true. The Chinese have no shame but are proud of being led by non-Han individuals such as Kangxi ... but a falsely documented article about an Ukrainian engineer being hired is pathetically obvious. It is crystal clear that the author(s) this fake news had the intent of discrediting Chinese engineers ... you and other ppl should know that China's carrier program does not rely on foreign engineers! If they haven't in the last ten years, then why should they now? Use your brain ...

PS: Just because ppl have Han surnames does not mean they're exclusively Han; most ethnic minorities adopted Han names ...

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## 星海军事

Figaro said:


> Not true ... steel cutting began in 2015 and was confirmed by CSSC head ... assembly was delayed due to EMALs competition but parts were delivered



You must have misunderstood something

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## Figaro

星海军事 said:


> You must have misunderstood something


... or they indeed started steel cutting in early 2015 as many "Big Shrimps" have stated

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## lmjiao

Deino said:


> Pardon, but why on 9.28 ??? What's so special with this date?
> 
> By the way, I thought 003 construction has indeed already started in July?


I guess there might be some ceremony onthat day.

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## samsara

Figaro said:


> Your last sentence and your general argument contradict themselves. It's obvious that you're implying that all Chinese intellectuals are of Han origin ... something that isn't true. The Chinese have no shame but are proud of being led by non-Han individuals such as Kangxi ... but a falsely documented article about an Ukrainian engineer being hired is pathetically obvious. *It is crystal clear that the author(s) this fake news had the intent of discrediting Chinese engineers* ... you and other ppl should know that China's carrier program does not rely on foreign engineers! If they haven't in the last ten years, then why should they now? Use your brain ...
> 
> PS: Just because ppl have Han surnames does not mean they're exclusively Han; most ethnic minorities adopted Han names ...


@Figaro - the flaw in your post is... since you boldly repeat that line then it stands to be corrected.

It's the nation's own largest daily, *The People's Daily 人民日报* that carries such news (check first if you aren't familiar with what's it)... so to say that the most referred news source there carries a fake news to discredit *own* engineers is simply too much to swallow...

I know @Deino posted a facebook post done by someone else said about the interview with the Babich himself refuted such association... but at the end it's one source versus the other, we may not know the truth... so at best just put it under the grey area... but no need to shout out the implied line that The People's Daily carries fake news to downgrade own nation...for it'll be too funny to digest... and will require good explanation on WHY???  So let's move on and just keep the news aside unless new info is made available.

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## grey boy 2

samsara said:


> @Figaro - the flaw in your post is... since you boldly repeat that line then it stands to be corrected.
> 
> It's the nation's own largest daily, *The People's Daily 人民日报* that carries such news (check first if you aren't familiar with what's it)... so to say that the most referred news source there carries a fake news to discredit *own* engineers is simply too much to swallow...
> 
> I know @Deino posted a facebook post done by someone else said about the interview with the Babich himself refuted such association... but at the end it's one source versus the other, we may not know the truth... so at best just put it under the grey area... but no need to shout out the implied line that The People's Daily carries fake news to downgrade own nation...for it'll be too funny to digest... and will require good explanation on WHY???  So let's move on and just keep the news aside unless new info is made available.


I'm with you on this matter, just doesn't seems logic and almost impossible for the official media of China posting "faked news" that may lead to being a laughing stock world wide

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> @Figaro - the flaw in your post is... since you boldly repeat that line then it stands to be corrected.
> 
> It's the nation's own largest daily, *The People's Daily 人民日报* that carries such news (check first if you aren't familiar with what's it)... so to say that the most referred news source there carries a fake news to discredit *own* engineers is simply too much to swallow...
> 
> I know @Deino posted a facebook post done by someone else said about the interview with the Babich himself refuted such association... but at the end it's one source versus the other, we may not know the truth... so at best just put it under the grey area... but no need to shout out the implied line that The People's Daily carries fake news to downgrade own nation...for it'll be too funny to digest... and will require good explanation on WHY???  So let's move on and just keep the news aside unless new info is made available.


Chinese state media posts inaccurate stuff all the time ... Global Times article. Since when were J-20s part of the Bayi Acrobatic team ? I'm not saying People's Daily posts fake news or anything, but it can be inaccurate.

PS: The People's Daily article does not directly acknowledge or confirm these rumors, saying that only it "_was widely circulated among Chinese military enthusiasts_". And you just acknowledged that Mr.Babich himself even refuted this rumor; then what more is there to talk about? At best, it was an inaccuracy and at worst, it was slander. Simple.



grey boy 2 said:


> I'm with you on this matter, just doesn't seems logic and almost impossible for the official media of China posting "faked news" that may lead to being a laughing stock world wide


Inaccuracies sometimes can occur ... as with the Global Times article posted above ^^^. And remember the infamous CCTV Top Gun incident? Even official PRC media is not immune to these trivial inaccuracies. And just like above, the PD article did not confirm these rumors, merely stating that they were being circulated. Even the most highly respected papers in the US make obvious mistakes from time to time; no shame in being inaccurate.

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## waja2000

samsara said:


> I recall reading the previous posts somewhere perhaps in this thread that *steel cutting* was kicked off at the end of June 2017, in JNCX shipyard. Unless the start of construction has other meaning than the steel cutting.



That steel cutting as rumours said is 075 LPH.


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## ChineseTiger1986

waja2000 said:


> That steel cutting as rumours said is 075 LPH.



The Type 075 LPH belongs to HDZH, not JNCX.

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## aliaselin

waja2000 said:


> That steel cutting as rumours said is 075 LPH.


Surely not.

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## Figaro

I don't know why some ppl believe that the PLAN has just begun steel cutting in June. That would imply a commissioning date in the mid 2020s! Surely, the Chinese are more prudent than letting themselves be without a CATOBAR carrier for the next 10 years? Pop3 already said that the 003 began construction along with the 002 (former 001a) back in early 2014. In this case, he probably was referring to steel cutting rather than module assembly. Pop3's rumor was confirmed by CSSC in March 2015, which stated that steel cutting for the 3rd aircraft carrier (003) had already begun. The real construction was supposed to start in 2016 but was delayed due to competition between EMALs and Steam (the former won eventually). Now, we should see the assembly of the 003 relatively soon as steel cutting and delivery of parts are completed ... which would imply a launch date in 2019 if things go smoothly

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## lmjiao

Figaro said:


> I don't know why some ppl believe that the PLAN has just begun steel cutting in June. That would imply a commissioning date in the mid 2020s! Surely, the Chinese are more prudent than letting themselves be without a CATOBAR carrier for the next 10 years? Pop3 already said that the 003 began construction along with the 002 (former 001a) back in early 2014. In this case, he probably was referring to steel cutting rather than module assembly. Pop3's rumor was confirmed by CSSC in March 2015, which stated that steel cutting for the 3rd aircraft carrier (003) had already begun. The real construction was supposed to start in 2016 but was delayed due to competition between EMALs and Steam (the former won eventually). Now, we should see the assembly of the 003 relatively soon as steel cutting and delivery of parts are completed ... which would imply a launch date in 2019 if things go smoothly


POP3 said yesterday in Haohan Forum that the construction will start recently.



> pop3
> 2017-9-10 15:30
> 有可能，6月曾遇到一熟人，聊到他们在新航母上拿到X万元的合同，若现在开工也差不多，从立项时间看，也差不多了，早也早不到哪去，晚也晚不到哪去，除非方案推倒重来，那样的话估计延后的时间要以年来计了。


POP3:
It is possible. I have met a friend in June. He got a contract for the new CV construction of X0K Yuan. It seems consistent that the construction start now. From the start date of this project, it is also consistent. It won't be much earlier or much later, unless the design is totally revised, in that case it will delay in years.

Link: http://www.haohanfw.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=113723&extra=page=1&mobile=2

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> I don't know why some ppl believe that the PLAN has just begun steel cutting in June. That would imply a commissioning date in the mid 2020s! Surely, the Chinese are more prudent than letting themselves be without a CATOBAR carrier for the next 10 years? Pop3 already said that the 003 began construction along with the 002 (former 001a) back in early 2014. In this case, he probably was referring to steel cutting rather than module assembly. Pop3's rumor was confirmed by CSSC in March 2015, which stated that steel cutting for the 3rd aircraft carrier (003) had already begun. The real construction was supposed to start in 2016 but was delayed due to competition between EMALs and Steam (the former won eventually). Now, we should see the assembly of the 003 relatively soon as steel cutting and delivery of parts are completed ... which would imply a launch date in 2019 if things go smoothly



Now the only remaining contest is nuclear vs non-nuclear.

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## Figaro

lmjiao said:


> POP3 said yesterday in Haohan Forum that the construction will start recently.
> 
> 
> POP3:
> It is possible. I have met a friend in June. He got a contract for the new CV construction of X0K Yuan. It seems consistent that the construction start now. From the start date of this project, it is also consistent. It won't be much earlier or much later, unless the design is totally revised, in that case it will delay in years.
> 
> Link: http://www.haohanfw.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=113723&extra=page=1&mobile=2


Exactly. Construction as in module assembly and keel laying will start very soon. But some ppl said that only steel cutting has begun, meaning that it will take 2 more years until construction starts ... and hence they're wrong

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## lmjiao

Figaro said:


> Exactly. Construction as in module assembly and keel laying will start very soon. But some ppl said that only steel cutting has begun, meaning that it will take 2 more years until construction starts ... and hence they're wrong


OK, thanks. Now I understand.

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## 星海军事

Figaro said:


> I don't know why some ppl believe that the PLAN has just begun steel cutting in June. That would imply a commissioning date in the mid 2020s!





Figaro said:


> Pop3 already said that the 003 began construction along with the 002 (former 001a) back in early 2014.





Figaro said:


> Pop3's rumor was confirmed by CSSC in March 2015, which stated that steel cutting for the 3rd aircraft carrier (003) had already begun.





Figaro said:


> The real construction was supposed to start in 2016 but was delayed due to competition between EMALs and Steam (the former won eventually).





Figaro said:


> Now, we should see the assembly of the 003 relatively soon as steel cutting and delivery of parts are completed ...



None of these make sense.

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## lmjiao

星海军事 said:


> None of these make sense.


I saw your posts in other forums. I think your idea is that Type 003 started construction 2 months ago. Is that right?


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## Figaro

星海军事 said:


> None of these make sense.


Because you can't comprehend English?!? Or have you not been up-to-date on Chinese carrier matters? If you are, my posts would make perfect sense.


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## 星海军事

Figaro said:


> Because you can't comprehend English?!? Or have you not been up-to-date on Chinese carrier matters? If you are, my posts would make perfect sense.





Figaro said:


> I don't know why some ppl believe that the PLAN has just begun steel cutting in June. That would imply a commissioning date in the mid 2020s! Surely, the Chinese are more prudent than letting themselves be without a CATOBAR carrier for the next 10 years?



Why would it take China 10 years to build a carrier?



Figaro said:


> Pop3 already said that the 003 began construction along with the 002 (former 001a) back in early 2014.



As far as I am concerned, pop3 has never said anything like that.



Figaro said:


> Pop3's rumor was confirmed by CSSC in March 2015, which stated that steel cutting for the 3rd aircraft carrier (003) had already begun.



Neither has CSSC confirmed any information about the 3rd carrier.



Figaro said:


> The real construction was supposed to start in 2016 but was delayed due to competition between EMALs and Steam (the former won eventually).



Is it 2014 or 2016?



Figaro said:


> Now, we should see the assembly of the 003 relatively soon as steel cutting and delivery of parts are completed ...



Let's wait and see.

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## Figaro

星海军事 said:


> Why would it take China 10 years to build a carrier?
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I am concerned, pop3 has never said anything like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither has CSSC confirmed any information about the 3rd carrier.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it 2014 or 2016?
> 
> 
> 
> Let's wait and see.


*Why would it take China 10 years to build a carrier?*
I mean from steel cutting to commissioning. The 002 carrier began steel cutting in 2013 and is slated to be commissioned by 2019. That's 6 years. Maybe I was off by that number, but if steel cutting only recently began, that would imply an at least 6 year period until the 003 carrier is commissioned (by mid 2020s), lest this assumption is false.
*As far as I am concerned, pop3 has never said anything like that.*
Go look at the first post of this thread by @ChineseTiger1986.
*Neither has CSSC confirmed any information about the 3rd carrier.*
Maybe because you missed it??? It was a report in March 2015 ... I can find it if you're really that desperate.
*Is it 2014 or 2016?*
I believe that steel cutting began in late 2014, as evidenced by pop3's rumors. The assembly (aka construction) should've begun in 2016 but was delayed due to the catapult competition.
*Let's wait and see.*
Isn't that what we do here 

PS: Next time if you don't understand something about my post, please point out the specifics instead of just saying "you make no sense".

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## 星海军事

Figaro said:


> *Why would it take China 10 years to build a carrier?*
> I mean from steel cutting to commissioning. The 002 carrier began steel cutting in 2013 and is slated to be commissioned by 2019. That's 6 years. Maybe I was off by that number, but if steel cutting only recently began, that would imply an at least 6 year period until the 003 carrier is commissioned (by mid 2020s), lest this assumption is false.
> *As far as I am concerned, pop3 has never said anything like that.*
> Go look at the first post of this thread by @ChineseTiger1986.
> *Neither has CSSC confirmed any information about the 3rd carrier.*
> Maybe because you missed it??? It was a report in March 2015 ... I can find it if you're really that desperate.
> *Is it 2014 or 2016?*
> I believe that steel cutting began in late 2014, as evidenced by pop3's rumors. The assembly (aka construction) should've begun in 2016 but was delayed due to the catapult competition.
> *Let's wait and see.*
> Isn't that what we do here
> 
> PS: Next time if you don't understand something about my post, please point out the specifics instead of just saying "you make no sense".



The first post of this thread by @ChineseTiger1986 is clearly a misunderstanding, since not until yesterday did pop3 tacitly admit the start of the construction of the 3rd carrier.

See also:
http://www.haohanfw.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=113723&pid=615731
http://www.haohanfw.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=88917&pid=436344

Of course CSSC did not disclose anything about the 3rd carrier. The rumor comes from Professor Jin Yinan's lecture. However, what Prof. Jin meant is that CSSC is the contractor of the 3rd carrier. He did not confirm the start of the construction either.

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## Akasa

星海军事 said:


> The first post of this thread by @ChineseTiger1986 is clearly a misunderstanding, since not until yesterday did pop3 tacitly admit the start of the construction of the 3rd carrier.
> 
> See also:
> http://www.haohanfw.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=113723&pid=615731
> http://www.haohanfw.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=88917&pid=436344
> 
> Of course CSSC did not disclose anything about the 3rd carrier. The rumor comes from Professor Jin Yinan's lecture. However, what Prof. Jin meant is that CSSC is the contractor of the 3rd carrier. He did not confirm the start of the construction either.



If you by any chance know, what is the current status of the J-15T for the 003? Some sources claim it is entering mass production while others are less optimistic.

There are also rumors that the J-20 beat the FC-31 in the PLAN carrier-born 5th-gen fighter tender; have you heard anything about that?


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## samsara

Ha ha... China is still so good at keeping things under thick veils, confusion A v B...
*just keep it that way!!*

I still love to see big surprise pops up *at the duly time* but not prematurely! 

Just wonder what the *Four(!?) Major Think-tanks* (CSIS & its derivatives; RAND; National Interest; Foreign Policy -- Am I right with the names?  plus few others: The Diplomat; Naval War College's Prof. Andrew S. Erickson / USNI; ONI Reports; Prof. Toshi Yoshihara and Prof. James Holmes and so on) in the USA opine about this development... have not yet peeped around there or those names lately 

Nowadays I love to read them "underrating" the Chinese military muscles and keep the sense of steady dominance on the paper when the changing realities do not conform to their lines. I boldly say: _*"Let 'em have the superiority complex and win over words!" *_

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## grey boy 2

Updates

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## samsara

grey boy 2 said:


> Updates


@grey boy 2 - what are these updates all about???

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> @grey boy 2 - what are these updates all about???


The change of the 003's superstructure ^^^

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## samsara

Figaro said:


> The change of the 003's superstructure ^^^


Okay, the land testing structure in Wuhan

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## grey boy 2

Official leaks of EMALS for 003? 电弹还是蒸弹的?
http://news.ifeng.com/a/20170916/52021096_0.shtml

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## GS Zhou

grey boy 2 said:


>


are the two the same thing??

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## Figaro

GS Zhou said:


> are the two the same thing??
> View attachment 430392


It appears to be the EM catapult

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## 星海军事

grey boy 2 said:


> Official leaks of EMALS for 003? 电弹还是蒸弹的?
> http://news.ifeng.com/a/20170916/52021096_0.shtml



According to the chief engineer, the structure is several hundred meters long, so I suppose it is not what you are thinking of.

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## clarkgap

The news about the chinese carrier-capable tactical airborn early warning (AEW) aircraft? 

http://rencai.people.com.cn/n1/2017/0928/c244805-29564500.html

“作为总设计师，段卓毅的工作方法是“俯下去，跳出来”。俯下去就是要筹谋全局、关注重点，“跳出来”则要依托团队、充分放权。近年来，他带领团队在国内率先探索高指标、强约束条件下的涡桨飞机正向设计方法，攻克了一系列关键技术，为型号顺利推进奠定了基础，此举也使得我国成为继美国之后世界上第二个拥有该类飞机研制能力的国家。”

The aircraft work in special condition with turboprop engines. China is the second country that have ability to create such type of aircraft after the Unite State. It looks like a Chinese E-2 AEW.

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## beijingwalker

*China's 003 aircraft carrier roars! Equipped with top technology, the U S military says it's growin




*

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## Figaro

beijingwalker said:


> *China's 003 aircraft carrier roars! Equipped with top technology, the U S military says it's growin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


I'm sorry, but why is there the need to create a dedicated thread to a very poorly made video? And since when did the US Military make an assessment of the 003 carrier when we haven't even seen its construction yet? Anytime there's a robotic narrator in the video, that should already raise significant red flags ... . And we even have a 003 thread already, you can post in there! https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/type...craft-carrier-news-discussions.416166/page-45

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## 帅的一匹

Don't make it like Indian section here. Be cool.

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## Deino

@beijingwalker 

*I really don't get it why again ???! *

*Why again a new thread and You know there is already one and even more only for such a lame video. *

*Take this as a warning, next time You get a real one.  Take a look on what You post and if not already a thread exist on that topic... esp. as a senior member You should know better.*

Thanks,
Deino

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## rambro

NoOne'sBoy said:


> I dont think the us military cares when it has even more carriers, oversea territory and enjoy global popularity.



They do so does the rest of the world.
Not just in military build up.

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## samsara

*Breakthrough to power most advanced jet launch system on*
*China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier*

_*Military chiefs have given green light for new integrated propulsion system capable of powering electromagnetic catapults, experts say*_

By Minnie Chan - The South China Morning Post
PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 01 November, 2017, 7:36pm
UPDATED : Wednesday, 01 November, 2017, 7:42pm

*A technological breakthrough in naval propulsion will enable China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier to use the world’s most advanced jet launch system without having to resort to nuclear power, overcoming a huge hurdle in the vessel’s development, military sources said.*

The development of *the integrated propulsion system (IPS)* would allow the vessel to be more efficient, allowing more power for an electromagnetic catapult, rather than a less technologically advanced steam-driven catapult launch system, the sources said.

China’s first two carriers, the Liaoning and its sister ship, the Type 001A, are conventionally powered vessels equipped with Soviet-designed ski-jump launch systems.

*But an electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS) on the Type 002, China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier, would mean less wear and tear on the planes and allow more aircraft to be launched in a shorter time than the ski and steam-catapult systems.*

*According to a source close to the People’s Liberation Army, China’s Central Military Commission was keen to use EMALS on the Type 002.*

_“[But] the obstacle … was whether a conventionally powered carrier would be able to support EMALS, and now that problem has been solved,”_ the person, who is close to the PLA’s equipment department, told the _South China Morning Post_.

*The solution was provided by a team led by China’s top naval engineer Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, which developed a medium-voltage, direct-current transmission network to replace an earlier system based on alternating current.*






_A comparison of two China's home-grown carriers_

*As a result, the CMC, which is chaired by President Xi Jinping, has said the development of the Type 002, which had long been delayed, would get under way “soon”, the source said.*

Wang Ping, an expert in military technology at the Institute of Electrical Engineering under the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing, said the innovative design meant that *high-energy consuming launch systems and weapons could now be used on a vessel driven by conventional power.*

_*“It wasn’t just a simple switch from alternating to direct current, but a complete overhaul of the energy supply and distribution system – from steam boilers to the energy storage device,”*_ he said.

Wang added that in the future, the same technology could be used to launch not just aircraft, but also missiles and satellites, and maybe even power high-speed trains.

*A naval expert close to the carrier project confirmed that the CMC was now planning to proceed with the new power option.*

_“China doesn’t need to copy the United States and use nuclear reactors to support EMALS and other energy-hungry weapons on the ship, because it now has more advanced technologies to solve the problem,”_ the naval expert said.

The use of new power systems on the Type 002 is in line with the goals set out in Xi’s work report delivered at last month’s national Communist Party congress that China’s military should modernise by 2035 and become a top-ranked force by 2050.

_“China now has mature technologies … [and] the PLA is narrowing the gap with the US,”_ the naval expert said.

He added that the US used an integrated propulsion system on its first USS Zumwalt-class destroyer, which was launched in 2013, *but that it was not as advanced as the second-generation technology developed by Ma and his team.*

In March, Ma, who is based at the PLA Naval University of Engineering in the central China city of Wuhan, told state broadcaster CCTV that the “ultimate aim” of his work on the IPS technology was to _*“solve the problem of deploying high-energy weapons”*_ from ships.

*He also said on the sidelines of the annual National People’s Congress in Beijing that China’s EMALS technology was more advanced and more reliable than the system used on the nuclear-powered USS Gerald Ford supercarrier.*

The world’s largest and most expensive super warship – and the first to use both EMALS and advanced arresting gear – completed its maiden arrested landing and launch operation in late July, a week after its commission to the US Navy.

*Additional reporting by Stephen Chen*

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## nang2

samsara said:


> *Breakthrough to power most advanced jet launch system on*
> *China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier*
> 
> _*Military chiefs have given green light for new integrated propulsion system capable of powering electromagnetic catapults, experts say*_
> 
> By Minnie Chan - The South China Morning Post
> PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 01 November, 2017, 7:36pm
> UPDATED : Wednesday, 01 November, 2017, 7:42pm
> 
> *A technological breakthrough in naval propulsion will enable China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier to use the world’s most advanced jet launch system without having to resort to nuclear power, overcoming a huge hurdle in the vessel’s development, military sources said.*
> 
> The development of *the integrated propulsion system (IPS)* would allow the vessel to be more efficient, allowing more power for an electromagnetic catapult, rather than a less technologically advanced steam-driven catapult launch system, the sources said.
> 
> China’s first two carriers, the Liaoning and its sister ship, the Type 001A, are conventionally powered vessels equipped with Soviet-designed ski-jump launch systems.
> 
> *But an electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS) on the Type 002, China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier, would mean less wear and tear on the planes and allow more aircraft to be launched in a shorter time than the ski and steam-catapult systems.*
> 
> *According to a source close to the People’s Liberation Army, China’s Central Military Commission was keen to use EMALS on the Type 002.*
> 
> _“[But] the obstacle … was whether a conventionally powered carrier would be able to support EMALS, and now that problem has been solved,”_ the person, who is close to the PLA’s equipment department, told the _South China Morning Post_.
> 
> *The solution was provided by a team led by China’s top naval engineer Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, which developed a medium-voltage, direct-current transmission network to replace an earlier system based on alternating current.*
> 
> View attachment 434475
> 
> _A comparison of two China's home-grown carriers_
> 
> *As a result, the CMC, which is chaired by President Xi Jinping, has said the development of the Type 002, which had long been delayed, would get under way “soon”, the source said.*
> 
> Wang Ping, an expert in military technology at the Institute of Electrical Engineering under the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing, said the innovative design meant that *high-energy consuming launch systems and weapons could now be used on a vessel driven by conventional power.*
> 
> _*“It wasn’t just a simple switch from alternating to direct current, but a complete overhaul of the energy supply and distribution system – from steam boilers to the energy storage device,”*_ he said.
> 
> Wang added that in the future, the same technology could be used to launch not just aircraft, but also missiles and satellites, and maybe even power high-speed trains.
> 
> *A naval expert close to the carrier project confirmed that the CMC was now planning to proceed with the new power option.*
> 
> _“China doesn’t need to copy the United States and use nuclear reactors to support EMALS and other energy-hungry weapons on the ship, because it now has more advanced technologies to solve the problem,”_ the naval expert said.
> 
> The use of new power systems on the Type 002 is in line with the goals set out in Xi’s work report delivered at last month’s national Communist Party congress that China’s military should modernise by 2035 and become a top-ranked force by 2050.
> 
> _“China now has mature technologies … [and] the PLA is narrowing the gap with the US,”_ the naval expert said.
> 
> He added that the US used an integrated propulsion system on its first USS Zumwalt-class destroyer, which was launched in 2013, *but that it was not as advanced as the second-generation technology developed by Ma and his team.*
> 
> In March, Ma, who is based at the PLA Naval University of Engineering in the central China city of Wuhan, told state broadcaster CCTV that the “ultimate aim” of his work on the IPS technology was to _*“solve the problem of deploying high-energy weapons”*_ from ships.
> 
> *He also said on the sidelines of the annual National People’s Congress in Beijing that China’s EMALS technology was more advanced and more reliable than the system used on the nuclear-powered USS Gerald Ford supercarrier.*
> 
> The world’s largest and most expensive super warship – and the first to use both EMALS and advanced arresting gear – completed its maiden arrested landing and launch operation in late July, a week after its commission to the US Navy.
> 
> *Additional reporting by Stephen Chen*


Poor research. why did he still use the term 001A?


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## Deino

nang2 said:


> Poor research. why did he still use the term 001A?




Indeed but why "he" ?? ... I thought "Minnie Chan" is female.


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## nang2

Deino said:


> Indeed but why "he" ?? ... I thought "Minnie Chan" is female.


she is. I didn't pay attention to the name.


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## Han Patriot

samsara said:


> *Breakthrough to power most advanced jet launch system on*
> *China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier*
> 
> _*Military chiefs have given green light for new integrated propulsion system capable of powering electromagnetic catapults, experts say*_
> 
> By Minnie Chan - The South China Morning Post
> PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 01 November, 2017, 7:36pm
> UPDATED : Wednesday, 01 November, 2017, 7:42pm
> 
> *A technological breakthrough in naval propulsion will enable China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier to use the world’s most advanced jet launch system without having to resort to nuclear power, overcoming a huge hurdle in the vessel’s development, military sources said.*
> 
> The development of *the integrated propulsion system (IPS)* would allow the vessel to be more efficient, allowing more power for an electromagnetic catapult, rather than a less technologically advanced steam-driven catapult launch system, the sources said.
> 
> China’s first two carriers, the Liaoning and its sister ship, the Type 001A, are conventionally powered vessels equipped with Soviet-designed ski-jump launch systems.
> 
> *But an electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS) on the Type 002, China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier, would mean less wear and tear on the planes and allow more aircraft to be launched in a shorter time than the ski and steam-catapult systems.*
> 
> *According to a source close to the People’s Liberation Army, China’s Central Military Commission was keen to use EMALS on the Type 002.*
> 
> _“[But] the obstacle … was whether a conventionally powered carrier would be able to support EMALS, and now that problem has been solved,”_ the person, who is close to the PLA’s equipment department, told the _South China Morning Post_.
> 
> *The solution was provided by a team led by China’s top naval engineer Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, which developed a medium-voltage, direct-current transmission network to replace an earlier system based on alternating current.*
> 
> View attachment 434475
> 
> _A comparison of two China's home-grown carriers_
> 
> *As a result, the CMC, which is chaired by President Xi Jinping, has said the development of the Type 002, which had long been delayed, would get under way “soon”, the source said.*
> 
> Wang Ping, an expert in military technology at the Institute of Electrical Engineering under the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing, said the innovative design meant that *high-energy consuming launch systems and weapons could now be used on a vessel driven by conventional power.*
> 
> _*“It wasn’t just a simple switch from alternating to direct current, but a complete overhaul of the energy supply and distribution system – from steam boilers to the energy storage device,”*_ he said.
> 
> Wang added that in the future, the same technology could be used to launch not just aircraft, but also missiles and satellites, and maybe even power high-speed trains.
> 
> *A naval expert close to the carrier project confirmed that the CMC was now planning to proceed with the new power option.*
> 
> _“China doesn’t need to copy the United States and use nuclear reactors to support EMALS and other energy-hungry weapons on the ship, because it now has more advanced technologies to solve the problem,”_ the naval expert said.
> 
> The use of new power systems on the Type 002 is in line with the goals set out in Xi’s work report delivered at last month’s national Communist Party congress that China’s military should modernise by 2035 and become a top-ranked force by 2050.
> 
> _“China now has mature technologies … [and] the PLA is narrowing the gap with the US,”_ the naval expert said.
> 
> He added that the US used an integrated propulsion system on its first USS Zumwalt-class destroyer, which was launched in 2013, *but that it was not as advanced as the second-generation technology developed by Ma and his team.*
> 
> In March, Ma, who is based at the PLA Naval University of Engineering in the central China city of Wuhan, told state broadcaster CCTV that the “ultimate aim” of his work on the IPS technology was to _*“solve the problem of deploying high-energy weapons”*_ from ships.
> 
> *He also said on the sidelines of the annual National People’s Congress in Beijing that China’s EMALS technology was more advanced and more reliable than the system used on the nuclear-powered USS Gerald Ford supercarrier.*
> 
> The world’s largest and most expensive super warship – and the first to use both EMALS and advanced arresting gear – completed its maiden arrested landing and launch operation in late July, a week after its commission to the US Navy.
> 
> *Additional reporting by Stephen Chen*


Never knew one day China would dare claim to have better tech than the US. Well, we are at the forefront for quantum comm and the fastest super computers.

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## Akasa

Han Warrior said:


> Never knew one day China would dare claim to have better tech than the US. Well, we are at the forefront for quantum comm and the fastest super computers.



"Better tech"? The USN is already close to having an EMALS-equipped vessel in *active service* while the Chinese are still in the tech demonstrator stage. Moreover, do we really know the Chinese catapult's performance and technology in comparison with that of the US one?


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## Han Patriot

SinoSoldier said:


> "Better tech"? The USN is already close to having an EMALS-equipped vessel in *active service* while the Chinese are still in the tech demonstrator stage. Moreover, do we really know the Chinese catapult's performance and technology in comparison with that of the US one?


Read the word *'claim'.* We weak and poor Chinese would not have even dared to be compared to the US, but now, look everywhere we are compared, from technology to trade to military. We are humble folks with humble temptations, just chinamen with no threat.

Calm down, don't be so agigated..... It baffles me how a weak country can agitate the SUPERPOWER of the world.

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## Akasa

Han Warrior said:


> Read the word *'claim'.* We weak and poor Chinese would not have even dared to be compared to the US, but now, look everywhere we are compared, from technology to trade to military. We are humble folks with humble temptations, just chinamen with no threat.
> 
> Calm down, don't be so agigated..... It baffles me how a weak country can agitate the SUPERPOWER of the world.



A claim requires evidence in order to have substance, which hasn't been the case with these rumors surrounding the Chinese EM catapult. It seems that you are more "agitated" than you claim the United States to be.


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## Han Patriot

SinoSoldier said:


> A claim requires evidence in order to have substance, which hasn't been the case with these rumors surrounding the Chinese EM catapult. It seems that you are more "agitated" than you claim the United States to be.


Nope, a claim does not require evidence, it requires a newspaper report and someone believing it. You can choose to believe or rubbish off a claim, who cares. But you do sound alot like a closet Indian and a false flagger tho.

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## Akasa

Han Warrior said:


> Nope, a claim does not require evidence, it requires a newspaper report and someone believing it. You can choose to believe or rubbish off a claim, who cares. But you do sound alot like a closet Indian and a false flagger tho.



A claim requires evidence in order to have *substance*; otherwise, it's nothing more than a hollow statement. Anyone can make these.

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## sixth

from google

claim
klām/
_verb_
verb: *claim*; 3rd person present: *claims*; past tense: *claimed*; past participle: *claimed*; gerund or present participle: *claiming
1*.
state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof.
"he *claimed that* he came from a wealthy, educated family"
synonyms: assert, declare, profess, maintain, state, hold, affirm, avow;
argue, contend, allege;
_formal_aver
"Davies claimed that she was lying"

you claim something what so ever you like

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## Han Patriot

sixth said:


> from google
> 
> claim
> klām/
> _verb_
> verb: *claim*; 3rd person present: *claims*; past tense: *claimed*; past participle: *claimed*; gerund or present participle: *claiming
> 1*.
> state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof.
> "he *claimed that* he came from a wealthy, educated family"
> synonyms: assert, declare, profess, maintain, state, hold, affirm, avow;
> argue, contend, allege;
> _formal_aver
> "Davies claimed that she was lying"
> 
> you claim something what so ever you like


Don't have to waste time with this guy, I notice he was a false flagger a long time ago.

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## samsara

SinoSoldier said:


> A claim requires evidence in order to have *substance*; otherwise, it's nothing more than a hollow statement. Anyone can make these.


Well, if a nation like India or Vietnam made such claims one may have great doubt due to the state of their nations as well as its tendency (IND case) to "NATO" (No Action Talking Only), incline to bluff/boast/hype. However, the important figures in China behave quite differently. Time and again, when they said that they could make it, the words really mean what they meant... attainable, something that can be realized in reasonable time frame.

True that the USA as the only major power with its industrial base left untouched, nearly full intact when all major powers were in ruins after the World War II, had started many things earlier than the ROW. But earlier advantages do no mean dominance for good. As time has shown us over and over, the USA started many technologies first but the newcomers even came out with better things. Some examples just for illustration purpose, the USA started the supercomputing field and led on top for the best technologies for many decades, but now no more. The USA launched the 1st GSNN - GPS but the decades later deployed BDS has better accuracy even has the short messaging service, something that GPS lacks of. In fact one can see the latest technology developments during the last decade, the USA hardly makes any wave... just list down if you think differently...

Back to the integrated propulsion system, Dr. Ma Weiming and his research team came out with the 2nd-generation technology while the USA has the 1st-generation one. Because of Dr. Ma Weiming's reputation I do believe his words that when he said China now has the better technology in the IPS, he really meant that and he did really know what he said. We are talking about a millennia-long culture, that is a Chinese culture, that does not encourage or value positively the "big words", bluffing, boasting, hyping and the like...

Of course we all here do understand that time is the best testimony... it will be the impartial and accurate judge of the development. *I just write here as a matter of record, thus few years to come perhaps we may look back what we said today*  

Btw, for someone who's flagging the Canadian flag and behaves as if a Westerner White people, and maintains so much dislike about China today... you are *really amazing* for your so much interests upon the Chinese developments with your so many questions spread over many threads over times... what a great curiosity to learn about China's latest... 

I can only see few personas here flagging the USA or Australian flag and implied to be the White and have adverse opinions on Chinese... yet still they all ask much less than you. In that sense you're truly special!

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## cirr

Piece of cake.

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## Figaro

SinoSoldier said:


> "Better tech"? The USN is already close to having an EMALS-equipped vessel in *active service* while the Chinese are still in the tech demonstrator stage. Moreover, do we really know the Chinese catapult's performance and technology in comparison with that of the US one?


Well, Mr. Ma Weiming did claim that during the NPC congress. And usually, Chinese scientists/technicians don't make such claims unless they're confident of their technologies. IMO, China's EM technology could indeed be better than the one on the Ford ... as both countries have poured in sizable resources. Just because China leapfrogged from a STOBAR to an EM catapult does not automatically imply inferiority ... and the Ford's EM catapult is also brand new with many glitches/bugs. You can count the number of planes Ford's EM has launched into the air ... so active service does not automatically mean maturity. But putting that aside, it has been essentially *confirmed *that the 003 will use EM catapults and IPS ... basically what the rumors have been saying for a couple months now. No wonder why there was such a delay for the carrier ... anyway good news. We could see modular assembly as early as next year given that they've already started manufacturing individual components.

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## Dungeness

Figaro said:


> Well, Mr. Ma Weiming did claim that during the NPC congress. And usually, Chinese scientists/technicians don't make such claims unless they're confident of their technologies. IMO, China's EM technology could indeed be better than the one on the Ford ... as both countries have poured in sizable resources. Just because China leapfrogged from a STOBAR to an EM catapult does not automatically imply inferiority ... and the Ford's EM catapult is also brand new with many glitches/bugs. You can count the number of planes Ford's EM has launched into the air ... so active service does not automatically mean maturity. But putting that aside, it has been essentially *confirmed *that the 003 will use EM catapults and IPS ... basically what the rumors have been saying for a couple months now. No wonder why there was such a delay for the carrier ... anyway good news. We could see modular assembly as early as next year given that they've already started manufacturing individual components.



On Yesterday's CCTV-4 "AsiaToday", Chinese Navy Major-general Mr. Yin Zhuo claimed that Chinese J-15s have been successfully tested on land based EMALS "*hundreds of times*".

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## Figaro

Dungeness said:


> On Yesterday's CCTV-4 "AsiaToday", Chinese Navy Major-general Mr. Yin Zhuo claimed that Chinese J-15s have been successfully tested on land based EMALS "*hundreds of times*".
> 
> 
> View attachment 434640
> View attachment 434641
> View attachment 434642
> View attachment 434643
> View attachment 434644
> View attachment 434645
> View attachment 434646


Not surprising, which is why it has been confirmed that the next carrier will incorporate EM. Now, it is not a matter of if the 003 has this or that but when it is going to start modular assembly. I really hope we can start to see some construction going on by next year ... they probably fabricated the individual modules by now.

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## Akasa

Figaro said:


> Well, Mr. Ma Weiming did claim that during the NPC congress. And usually, Chinese scientists/technicians don't make such claims unless they're confident of their technologies. IMO, China's EM technology could indeed be better than the one on the Ford ... as both countries have poured in sizable resources. Just because China leapfrogged from a STOBAR to an EM catapult does not automatically imply inferiority ... and the Ford's EM catapult is also brand new with many glitches/bugs. You can count the number of planes Ford's EM has launched into the air ... so active service does not automatically mean maturity. But putting that aside, it has been essentially *confirmed *that the 003 will use EM catapults and IPS ... basically what the rumors have been saying for a couple months now. No wonder why there was such a delay for the carrier ... anyway good news. We could see modular assembly as early as next year given that they've already started manufacturing individual components.



It wouldn't be the first time that "officials", even higher-up engineers & researchers, have made bold claims. These should be taken with a grain of salt even if the personnel behind the technology have hard-earned credentials.

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## cirr

China has accomplished in 5 years and with a little over 100 miilion dollars what the US managed to achieve in some 20 years and with billions of dollars.

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## samsara

nang2 said:


> Poor research. why did he still use the term 001A?


Not a poor research at all. If you pay attention, *until today* all the Chinese official news outlets incl. the CCTV still consistently use the references *TYPE 001A* and *002*... I wonder why some folks insist on referring the "type" differently 



cirr said:


> China has accomplished in 5 years and with a little over 100 miilion dollars what the US managed to achieve in some 20 years and with billions of dollars.


the more costly the more convincing!!

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## Nan Yang

Just broadcasted

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## samsara

Nan Yang said:


> Just broadcasted


*《FOCUS TODAY》 20171103 Does the 2nd domestic aircraft carrier make technology breakthrough? - Hong Kong media: conventional power*
《今日关注》 20171103 第二艘国产航母技术大突破？港媒：常规动力 | CCTV-4

As usual the Focus Today program comes with some key English texts.

*13 warships are simultaneously under construction in China's shipyard*





。。。

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## cirr

*China develops a catapult for planes*

2017-11-16 08:39 China Daily _Editor: Li Yan_





A J-15 fighter jet lands on CNS Liaoning in July. (Photo/Xinhua)

*Electromagnetic system to boost carrier fleet's combat capability*

China has developed its own version of a cutting-edge device previously possessed only by the United States and is poised to use it to boost its aircraft carrier fleet's combat capability.

The device, known as an electromagnetic launch system, or electromagnetic catapult, was designed by Chinese engineers to assist planes taking off from aircraft carriers. The system has been tested with J-15 carrier-borne fighter jets, according to Rear Admiral Yin Zhuo, director of the People's Liberation Army Navy's expert consultation committee.

He said on China Central Television recently that J-15s have made "thousands of takeoffs" using the electromagnetic launch system.

Before China developed its catapult, expertise in the technology had long been the domain of the United States, because of the system's complexity and sophistication.

Unlike taking off from a runway on the ground, fixed-wing aircraft on carriers need assistance from a special apparatus to take off because a flight deck is not long enough for a plane to gain sufficient speed to fly. Catapults give them an extra shove.

A steel cable attaches the plane to the catapult and drags it rapidly forward for takeoff. With older technology, the pulling force of the cable was powered by steam. Electromagnetic force provides an alternative solution that brings certain advantages.

China's midsize carrier, the CNS Liaoning, uses a ski-jump design for its takeoff ramp - with an upward slope at one end to increase the angle of a plane's wings, thereby generating lift. Large carriers, however, such as those deployed by the US Navy, use catapults.

Electromagnetic launch systems are believed to be the most advanced carrier-based technology for assisting takeoffs.

Yin said China was able to develop the device because its engineers have designed a state-of-the-art ship-based power system. The country has outperformed the US in the development of such systems, which are considered by military experts as a game-changing technology in naval hardware, he said.

"Compared with the US, we have better technologies in key parts, such as motor-control devices and power distribution software. We are leaders in the research and development of integrated electric power systems," he said.

Yin said that China now possesses proven technologies for both steam catapults and electromagnetic launch systems. He said the Navy's second domestically designed carrier will use a catapult system to assist takeoffs rather than the ski-jump mode.

The Chinese military has yet to announce details regarding the new carrier, but some observers speculate that construction will begin soon in Shanghai.

The PLA Navy's current carrier, the Liaoning, was refitted from a partially built Soviet ship. It went into service in September 2012 and has completed several long-range training exercises.

In late April, China put its first domestically developed carrier into the water at a shipyard in Dalian, Liaoning province. It is currently being fitted with equipment and undergoing tests. It is the largest and most sophisticated vessel yet for China. Its name will be announced once it is commissioned.

Both carriers have a displacement of 50,000 metric tons and employ the ski-jump mode for launching fixed-wing aircraft.

Wang Yanan, editor-in-chief of Aerospace Knowledge magazine, said that the use of a catapult enables a carrier to launch larger and heavier aircraft such as fixed-wing early-warning planes and allows fighter jets to carry more fuel and weapons.

He said electromagnetic launch systems are able to control the force of acceleration better than the old steam-powered design, and is safer for planes. They are also smaller and use less fuel than the steam-based devices, he said.

http://www.ecns.cn/military/2017/11-16/281108.shtml

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> *China develops a catapult for planes*
> 
> 2017-11-16 08:39 China Daily _Editor: Li Yan_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A J-15 fighter jet lands on CNS Liaoning in July. (Photo/Xinhua)
> 
> *Electromagnetic system to boost carrier fleet's combat capability*
> 
> China has developed its own version of a cutting-edge device previously possessed only by the United States and is poised to use it to boost its aircraft carrier fleet's combat capability.
> 
> The device, known as an electromagnetic launch system, or electromagnetic catapult, was designed by Chinese engineers to assist planes taking off from aircraft carriers. The system has been tested with J-15 carrier-borne fighter jets, according to Rear Admiral Yin Zhuo, director of the People's Liberation Army Navy's expert consultation committee.
> 
> He said on China Central Television recently that J-15s have made "thousands of takeoffs" using the electromagnetic launch system.
> 
> Before China developed its catapult, expertise in the technology had long been the domain of the United States, because of the system's complexity and sophistication.
> 
> Unlike taking off from a runway on the ground, fixed-wing aircraft on carriers need assistance from a special apparatus to take off because a flight deck is not long enough for a plane to gain sufficient speed to fly. Catapults give them an extra shove.
> 
> A steel cable attaches the plane to the catapult and drags it rapidly forward for takeoff. With older technology, the pulling force of the cable was powered by steam. Electromagnetic force provides an alternative solution that brings certain advantages.
> 
> China's midsize carrier, the CNS Liaoning, uses a ski-jump design for its takeoff ramp - with an upward slope at one end to increase the angle of a plane's wings, thereby generating lift. Large carriers, however, such as those deployed by the US Navy, use catapults.
> 
> Electromagnetic launch systems are believed to be the most advanced carrier-based technology for assisting takeoffs.
> 
> Yin said China was able to develop the device because its engineers have designed a state-of-the-art ship-based power system. The country has outperformed the US in the development of such systems, which are considered by military experts as a game-changing technology in naval hardware, he said.
> 
> "Compared with the US, we have better technologies in key parts, such as motor-control devices and power distribution software. We are leaders in the research and development of integrated electric power systems," he said.
> 
> Yin said that China now possesses proven technologies for both steam catapults and electromagnetic launch systems. He said the Navy's second domestically designed carrier will use a catapult system to assist takeoffs rather than the ski-jump mode.
> 
> The Chinese military has yet to announce details regarding the new carrier, but some observers speculate that construction will begin soon in Shanghai.
> 
> The PLA Navy's current carrier, the Liaoning, was refitted from a partially built Soviet ship. It went into service in September 2012 and has completed several long-range training exercises.
> 
> In late April, China put its first domestically developed carrier into the water at a shipyard in Dalian, Liaoning province. It is currently being fitted with equipment and undergoing tests. It is the largest and most sophisticated vessel yet for China. Its name will be announced once it is commissioned.
> 
> Both carriers have a displacement of 50,000 metric tons and employ the ski-jump mode for launching fixed-wing aircraft.
> 
> Wang Yanan, editor-in-chief of Aerospace Knowledge magazine, said that the use of a catapult enables a carrier to launch larger and heavier aircraft such as fixed-wing early-warning planes and allows fighter jets to carry more fuel and weapons.
> 
> He said electromagnetic launch systems are able to control the force of acceleration better than the old steam-powered design, and is safer for planes. They are also smaller and use less fuel than the steam-based devices, he said.
> 
> http://www.ecns.cn/military/2017/11-16/281108.shtml



Is the CATOBAR-configured J-15 a demonstrator for a follow-on (5th gen) carrier fighter or will it actually go into production?


----------



## JSCh

* Future Chinese aircraft carriers to feature J-20, J-31 stealth fighters *
By Deng Xiaoci Source:Global Times Published: 2017/12/6 22:48:40

China's future straight-deck aircraft carriers with the electromagnetic launcher system will carry fifth-generation jet fighters like J-20 and J-31, Chinese experts said on Wednesday, following reports that Chinese first home-grown aircraft carrier is close to completing a mooring test. 

The first domestically-built aircraft carrier will soon take the sea test, according to Military Time, a China Central Television military program on Saturday.

Since the warship, widely known as the Type 001A, like the country's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, uses an upward ski jump-style deck, the Chinese J-15 fighters will be the top option for its carrier-based aircraft, the report said. 

J-15 fighters, nicknamed the Flying Shark, took off and landed on the Liaoning for the first time in 2012, and more than 20 of these jets have trained on it.

The J-20 and J-31 will surely be installed on future Chinese aircraft carriers with the catapult system, to protect the carriers, Yin Zhuo, a senior researcher at the PLA Naval Equipment Research Center, told the Military Time. 

Yin predicted the J-15 fighters on the Type 001A will be around 40, about the same as that for Liaoning ship. 

Song Zhongping, a TV commentator and military expert, told the Global Times that "It is more likely that J-15 fighters and improved versions will be on board together with stealth fighters such as the J-20 and J-31, as they will be playing different roles."

However, Song pointed out that since the J-20 and J-31 are primarily designed for the air force, adapting them as navy fighters will entail some costs. "The J-20 will be more expensive to modify than the J-31."

The sea test for the Type-001A could be conducted as early as the beginning of next year, Zhang Ye, a research fellow at the People's Liberation Army Naval Research Institute, told the Global Times.

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## Akasa

JSCh said:


> * Future Chinese aircraft carriers to feature J-20, J-31 stealth fighters *
> By Deng Xiaoci Source:Global Times Published: 2017/12/6 22:48:40
> 
> China's future straight-deck aircraft carriers with the electromagnetic launcher system will carry fifth-generation jet fighters like J-20 and J-31, Chinese experts said on Wednesday, following reports that Chinese first home-grown aircraft carrier is close to completing a mooring test.
> 
> The first domestically-built aircraft carrier will soon take the sea test, according to Military Time, a China Central Television military program on Saturday.
> 
> Since the warship, widely known as the Type 001A, like the country's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, uses an upward ski jump-style deck, the Chinese J-15 fighters will be the top option for its carrier-based aircraft, the report said.
> 
> J-15 fighters, nicknamed the Flying Shark, took off and landed on the Liaoning for the first time in 2012, and more than 20 of these jets have trained on it.
> 
> The J-20 and J-31 will surely be installed on future Chinese aircraft carriers with the catapult system, to protect the carriers, Yin Zhuo, a senior researcher at the PLA Naval Equipment Research Center, told the Military Time.
> 
> Yin predicted the J-15 fighters on the Type 001A will be around 40, about the same as that for Liaoning ship.
> 
> Song Zhongping, a TV commentator and military expert, told the Global Times that "It is more likely that J-15 fighters and improved versions will be on board together with stealth fighters such as the J-20 and J-31, as they will be playing different roles."
> 
> However, Song pointed out that since the J-20 and J-31 are primarily designed for the air force, adapting them as navy fighters will entail some costs. "The J-20 will be more expensive to modify than the J-31."
> 
> The sea test for the Type-001A could be conducted as early as the beginning of next year, Zhang Ye, a research fellow at the People's Liberation Army Naval Research Institute, told the Global Times.



There is little doubt that the PLAN will eventually pursue 5th-generation aircraft for their carriers. The question is, will the fighter be based on the J-20 or FC-31 design?


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## rcrmj

SinoSoldier said:


> It wouldn't be the first time that "officials", even higher-up engineers & researchers, have made bold claims. These should be taken with a grain of salt even if the personnel behind the technology have hard-earned credentials.


our EMALs is at least a generation ahead of U.S's thats what the people from the circle said````but I will take their words hundred times creditable than any of your "source" or convinent thoughts out there in the West.

I believe this is a fact as much as I believe we are 20 years behind the U.S in Turbofan technologies

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## rcrmj

SinoSoldier said:


> Claiming that the Chinese EM catapult is more advanced than the US one would require access to the engineering documents and test data of both systems. Has it crossed anyone's mind how Chinese engineers managed to get their hands on the EMALS' blueprints or its test data?
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Yin Zhuo did not explicitly say that the J-20 & FC-31 will definitely serve on PLAN carriers. And quite frankly the statement is more likely his own opinion rather than official confirmation of such.


better system redundancy, lower power comsumption, longer service life, better maintenance and U.S is still using Medium voltage AC technology for its EMALs, but we are already using Medium voltage DC technology for our EMALS````anyway U.S has started on DC EMALs, maybe will be available in 10 years time ?```why need detailed data, are we talking about reverse enginerring their EMALs?```nope, the end results can speak volum```besides, these people are serious scientist, not bragger working for news outlets```

since you dont know Chinese so I cant give you more infos``as my limited English stops me from explaining in detail

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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> better system redundancy, lower power comsumption, longer service life, better maintenance and U.S is still using Medium voltage AC technology for its EMALs, but we are already using Medium voltage DC technology for our EMALS````anyway U.S has started on DC EMALs, maybe will be available in 10 years time ?```why need detailed data, are we talking about reverse enginerring their EMALs?```nope, the end results can speak volum```besides, these people are serious scientist, not bragger working for news outlets```
> 
> since you dont know Chinese so I cant give you more infos``as my limited English stops me from explaining in detail



It's a bit bold to make such claims based on the usage of AC or DC alone. The main advantage of DC current, as explained by Prof. Ma, is additional power. The other alleged advantages you mentioned cannot be fully assessed against the US system unless the PLAN gets ahold of test data to do a proper comparison.

I suggest that you take these claims with a grain of salt until the PLAN starts launching FC-31s (or whatever) off these catapults on a frequent basis.


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## rcrmj

Figaro said:


> I think construction of the various modules began quite a long time ago. At this point, the EM catapult is mature enough and awaiting installation on the new CATOBAR carrier. I personally think we will be seeing signs of assembly by next year, assuming that there are no further delays in the EM vs Steam catapult competition.
> 
> 
> Yin Zhuo might not be reliable himself but the essence of his statement is true. At this point, whoever wins the navalized J-20 or FC-31 tender will be the next carrier aircraft. Having both FC-31 and J-20 navalized and placed on a carrier would be near impossible given resource allocation/development cycle.


those TV commentators dont know everything, they might know a bit of their field of expertise respectively, but I know it is 100% sure is that they are not from any of "the" institutions' labs`````so a layman's theory regarding our 4th gen AC stealth fighter would be an offspring from either J-20 or FC-31````however, real matter wont always seem linear or simple````



SinoSoldier said:


> It's a bit bold to make such claims based on the usage of AC or DC alone. The main advantage of DC current, as explained by Prof. Ma, is additional power. The other alleged advantages you mentioned cannot be fully assessed against the US system unless the PLAN gets ahold of test data to do a proper comparison.
> 
> I suggest that you take these claims with a grain of salt until the PLAN starts launching FC-31s (or whatever) off these catapults on a frequent basis.


end results, again, end results```U.S has just started on DC EMALs, ```better system redundancy, lower power comsumption, longer service life, better maintenance```what more do you want?



SinoSoldier said:


> I suggest that you take these *claims with a grain of salt *until the PLAN starts launching FC-31s (or whatever) off these catapults on a frequent basis.



i strongly advise you to take your convinent thoughts as a grain of salt, as clearly most of your "questions" just dont make any sense, and to me you appear to be like those who has no source of getting real stuff from China's defense field.

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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> those TV commentators dont know everything, they might know a bit of their field of expertise respectively, but I know it is 100% sure is that they are not from any of "the" institutions' labs`````so a layman's theory regarding our 4th gen AC stealth fighter would be an offspring from either J-20 or FC-31````however, real matter wont always seem linear or simple````



It makes the most sense to develop a naval fighter from an existing platform.



rcrmj said:


> end results, again, end results```U.S has just started on DC EMALs, ```better system redundancy, lower power comsumption, longer service life, better maintenance```what more do you want?



So, in other words, we're completely reliant on Prof. Ma's claim that DC current alone brings all of the listed advantages to the Chinese system. It's better to wait and see.


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## hirobo2

SinoSoldier, let me give you a bit of advice. Chinese are obsessed with being #1 under heaven. All those opinions you publicly display seem to suggest China is satisfied with being #2...

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## Deino

Guys, we have a dedicated thread for the PLAN's future naval fighter ... please continue there.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/j-xy-next-generation-carrier-borne-fighter.518751/

Deino


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## clarkgap

hirobo2 said:


> SinoSoldier, let me give you a bit of advice. Chinese are obsessed with being #1 under heaven. All those opinions you publicly display seem to suggest China is satisfied with being #2...



I believed Chinese are obsessed with being #3.


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## Figaro

clarkgap said:


> I believed Chinese are obsessed with being #3.


Why would the Chinese or any major power be obsessed with being #2 or #3??? All great powers strive to be number one ... and China definitely is no exception . That doesn’t necessarily mean that they will become number one, but sure they will try!


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## Deino

I think the last post were simply sarcastic !


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## 52051

Figaro said:


> Why would the Chinese or any major power be obsessed with being #2 or #3??? All great powers strive to be number one ... and China definitely is no exception . That doesn’t necessarily mean that they will become number one, but sure they will try!



He simply refer to a very old joke in China claiming China love to beat the 3rd strongest nation in the world back in the cold war days (means self-proclaimed regional powers who have the mouth but not the muscle).

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## rcrmj

LATEST````some suppliers have already recieved orders```````hail EMALs``the coming years will be very exciting !!

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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> LATEST````some suppliers have already recieved orders```````hail EMALs``the coming years will be very exciting !!



Any news on the PLAN carrier-based 5th generation fighter? What are the FC-31's (or a derivative's) prospects?


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## rcrmj

SinoSoldier said:


> Any news on the PLAN carrier-based 5th generation fighter? What are the FC-31's (or a derivative's) prospects?


dont know, probably will be later than AC based AWACs or even J-15S````

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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> dont know, probably will be later than AC based AWACs or even J-15S````



Interesting that you brought up J-15S & KJ-600.

Hasn't the J-15S been canceled, and when is the J-15B finally going to debut?


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## cirr

http://reflow.huoshan.com/share/ite...267807807&utm_medium=toutiao_android&tt_from=

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## clarkgap

Figaro said:


> 003 drydock??



Obviously not.


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## samsara

cirr said:


> http://reflow.huoshan.com/share/item/6484758918961564942/?iid=19334373632





clarkgap said:


> Obviously not.



Is it a new large-size drydock for large naval & commercial assets, incl. carrier class, in JNCX?

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## cirr

samsara said:


> Is it a new large-size drydock for large naval & commercial assets, incl. carrier class, in JNCX?



Carrier, carrier, carrier!

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> Carrier, carrier, carrier!



Steel cutting for the 003 began on June 29, 2017. There is no way they could've started dock assembly at this stage.


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## Figaro

SinoSoldier said:


> Steel cutting for the 003 began on June 29, 2017. There is no way they could've started dock assembly at this stage.


I believe Professor Ma Weiming gave a presentation and told his audience that the 003 construction was postponed personally by Xi due to the then on-going catapult competition. So the construction of individual modules should have started already ... maybe not assembly but shouldn’t be too long either

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## Akasa

Figaro said:


> I believe Professor Ma Weiming gave a presentation and told his audience that the 003 construction was postponed personally by Xi due to the then on-going catapult competition. So the construction of individual modules should have started already ... maybe not assembly but shouldn’t be too long either



The individual modules would have to be designed around the catapult, so either that the existing modules had to be scrapped or that they never started in the first place. Unless there is zero discrepancy in configuration between electromagnetic vs steam cats, I highly doubt that steel cutting started earlier than the mentioned date.


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## Deino

SinoSoldier said:


> The individual modules would have to be designed around the catapult, so either that the existing modules had to be scrapped or that they never started in the first place. Unless there is zero discrepancy in configuration between electromagnetic vs steam cats, I highly doubt that steel cutting started earlier than the mentioned date.



To admit I'm not a specialist in shipbuilding but I'm not sure if or how much the construction of the lower deck modules will differ between a EM- or Steam-Cat-carrier?

Can anyone explain?

Deino

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## 星海军事

Deino said:


> To admit I'm not a specialist in shipbuilding but I'm not sure if or how much the construction of the lower deck modules will differ between a EM- or Steam-Cat-carrier?
> 
> Can anyone explain?
> 
> Deino



The construction has never begun until this year.

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## ChineseTiger1986

星海军事 said:


> The construction has never begun until this year.



Can you explain this?


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## 星海军事

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Can you explain this?
> 
> 
> View attachment 442543



I believe it is meant for mitigating the impact of precipitation during dock construction.

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## ChineseTiger1986

星海军事 said:


> I believe it is meant for mitigating the impact of precipitation during dock construction.



Does this also mean that they need a bigger canopy?


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## 星海军事

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Does this also mean that they need a bigger canopy?


Well, it can be any adaptation. A new bid shall be placed soon. Let's wait and see.

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## rcrmj

SinoSoldier said:


> Interesting that you brought up J-15S & KJ-600.
> 
> Hasn't the J-15S been canceled, and when is the J-15B finally going to debut?


not canceled, too much changes, caused technological difficulties and hence delay```the AWACs is roughly the size of E-2C``````and the 5th gen AC based stealth fight program is about to freeze the technology prospect, therefore will soon entre the second phase of "chucking" out prototypes `````````but I still don not know how it looks`````````could be a hybrid, or could be just like her mon```

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## Deino

星海军事 said:


> The construction has never begun until this year.



Ok ... any specific date given when it started?

... but back to my question: How much would the construction of the lower deck modules differ between a EM- or Steam-Cat-carrier?

Deino


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## Deino

SinoSoldier said:


> My understanding is that the PLAN wants a medium-sized heavyweight 5th generation fighter, and the contenders are 601 and 611. The 601 institute is presenting a navalized 3.0 version of the FC-31 while we don't know what 611 is developing.
> 
> How close is this to the information you have?
> 
> 
> 
> Do we have any updates on the PLAN 5th generation fighter program? I've been hearing that it's a competition between SAC & CAC (FC-31 vs a J-20 variant?). When can we expect the results to come out?




Could you please post these questions strictly related to the next generation fighter in the appropriate thread? 

I'm also puzzled about this question - and most likely others as well - but here my question and his reply was related to the carrier and not the fighter.

Deino

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## Akasa

Deino said:


> Could you please post these questions strictly related to the next generation fighter in the appropriate thread?
> 
> I'm also puzzled about this question - and most likely others as well - but here my question and his reply was related to the carrier and not the fighter.
> 
> Deino



Thanks; could you move it?

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## ChineseTiger1986

星海军事 said:


> Well, it can be any adaptation. A new bid shall be placed soon. Let's wait and see.



I predict that we will see the brief silhouette of the Type 003 in that dry dock by late 2019.

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## lcloo

A certain sharp ear cat has just re-affirmed that the 3rd Chinese aircraft carrier (2nd domestic built) had indeed commenced contruction (i.e. steel cutting) in 2016, with some incident (i.e. Steam vs EMAL) causing some delay therafter.

Since metal cutting woulld take around one and half year + time delay for the Steam Vs EMAL competition, 2019 in deed is a good bet for its appearance in the dry dock in Shanghai JNCX ( Dry dock No.4).

In his weibo, he stated:-_ He had posted in 2013 building of 001A (or 002 as some preferred) commenced, in 2014 he said 8 units of 055 would be built, and in 2015 he also said Dalian shipyard would also build 055 (togerther with Shanghai JNCX).
_

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## 4GTejasBVR

nang2 said:


> wrong thread


How many aircraft carrier China building. I thought only 1


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## Daniel808

4GTejasBVR said:


> How many aircraft carrier China building. I thought only 1



2 unit.

PLANS Shandong CVBG-17 in Dalian Shipyard, already Launched and Fitting out now. Commisioned to Service soon in 2018.


CVBG-18 in Jiangnan Shipyard, EMALS with IEP (Integrated Electric Propulsion), Steel Cutting begin in 2016/2017, we will see in Dry Dock maybe after Winter 2018 (Beginning 2019)

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## samsara

Daniel808 said:


> 2 unit.
> 
> PLANS Shandong CVBG-17 in Dalian Shipyard, already Launched and Fitting out now. Commisioned to Service soon in 2018.
> 
> 
> CVBG-18 in Jiangnan Shipyard, EMALS with IEP (Integrated Electric Propulsion), Steel Cutting begin in 2016/2017, we will see in Dry Dock maybe after Winter 2018 (Beginning 2019)


Plus another one allegedly the 2nd unit of Type 002 (CVBG-19), the sibling of the Jiangnan's one... its steel cutting may have been initiated or will soon initiate in Dalian shipyard. (search for @cirr 's earlier post)
Indeed I still expect an even more massive and faster carrier development until the near future, let say by the 2025 time frame (perhaps by some of the China's miracle out of the unseen hidden beneath  )

@4GTejasBVR - your post belongs to the dedicated Type 001A thread (the 2nd carrier yet the 1st _fully_ homegrown one):
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/type-002-former-type-001a-aircraft-carrier-news-discussions.416441/page-90
。。。

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## Figaro

lcloo said:


> A certain sharp ear cat has just re-affirmed that the 3rd Chinese aircraft carrier (2nd domestic built) had indeed commenced contruction (i.e. steel cutting) in 2016, with some incident (i.e. Steam vs EMAL) causing some delay therafter.
> 
> Since metal cutting woulld take around one and half year + time delay for the Steam Vs EMAL competition, 2019 in deed is a good bet for its appearance in the dry dock in Shanghai JNCX ( Dry dock No.4).
> 
> In his weibo, he stated:-_ He had posted in 2013 building of 001A (or 002 as some preferred) commenced, in 2014 he said 8 units of 055 would be built, and in 2015 he also said Dalian shipyard would also build 055 (togerther with Shanghai JNCX).
> _
> View attachment 443067


So EM is basically confirmed? Good for the PLAN. They definitely made the right choice. A minor delay is better spending valuable time and resources on an inferior steam catapult.

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## rcrmj

4GTejasBVR said:


> How many aircraft carrier China building. I thought only 1


two down the production line, and 4 more on drawing boards````

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## cirr

4GTejasBVR said:


> How many aircraft carrier China building. I thought only 1



As many as we want or please.

But since China is determined not to become the next world's police that the US is today, I guess a fleet of 10 nuclear-powered super carriers is about right for China.

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> As many as we want or please.
> 
> *But since China is determined not to become the next world's police that the US is today*, I guess a fleet of *10 nuclear-powered super carriers* is about right for China.



Contradictory statements.

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## samsara

cirr said:


> As many as we want or please.
> 
> But since China is determined not to become the next world's police that the US is today, I guess a fleet of 10 nuclear-powered super carriers is about right for China.





SinoSoldier said:


> Contradictory statements.


Actually NOT since China does not aspire to exceed the CSG number of the USA. If China intend to police the world or supplant the US military hegemony they must plan to build at least 15 or even 20 most modern CSG/CVBG 

Dunno why some feel so anxious about the 10 marking when the world has been getting used with USA's 11 or 12 CSG showing up at every corner of the globe for decades  Or should the U.S. be the exceptional to be sole owner of the so many carrier battle groups?

The number of China's 10 carriers in future is quoted also in following article published recently by a mainstream mouthpiece, an anti-China hardliner based in the New York City, the Epoch Times, run by those ardent supporters of the banned cult Falun Gong and funded by some U.S. institutions and/or NGOs, carrying out its main mission of doing intense propaganda works along with its sister broadcast media NDTV in various languages incl. Chinese, esp. among the Chinese societies, articulating its very strong anti-China stance to shape the public opinions worldwide to the advantages of the Anglo's world order.








。。。

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## 52051

I hope they don't build 10 CVs, its a waste of money on expensive weapons of yesterday.

5 is more than enough to take on small countries, that's the use of CVs, the future belong to long range hypersonic manned/unmanned strike vehicles and missiles.

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## hirobo2

I don't know, 10 sounds about right. The ones China really wants are the nuclear powered ones. Say China has the goal of 5 CVNs, it means she'll have accumulated 2 STOBAR + 2-3 CATOBAR CVs + 5 CVNs = about 10.

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## terranMarine

52051 said:


> I hope they don't build 10 CVs, its a waste of money on expensive weapons of yesterday.
> 
> 5 is more than enough to take on small countries, that's the use of CVs, the future belong to long range hypersonic manned/unmanned strike vehicles and missiles.



I thought it was already acknowledged that we would have 10 CV by 2049.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The modules shall soon be seen some time in next year.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The modules shall soon be seen some time in next year.
> 
> 
> View attachment 445392



Interesting!!
But can you locate that certain yard in this image??

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Interesting!!
> But can you locate that certain yard in this image??
> 
> View attachment 445413
> View attachment 445414



The GE hasn't been updated to the most recent satellite image.

BTW, it is the dry dock #4, and meanwhile during the construction of the Type 003, this dry dock is now also getting lengthened for more extra capacity.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The GE hasn't been updated to the most recent satellite image.
> 
> BTW, it is the dry dock #4, and meanwhile during the construction of the Type 003, this dry dock is now also getting lengthened for more extra capacity.




Could You please mark it in the image or is it there ??

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The modules shall soon be seen some time in next year.
> 
> 
> View attachment 445392





ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The GE hasn't been updated to the most recent satellite image.
> 
> BTW, it is the dry dock #4, and meanwhile during the construction of the Type 003, this dry dock is now also getting lengthened for more extra capacity.


So it will be launched by 2020?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Could You please mark it in the image or is it there ??
> 
> View attachment 445508



I think the dry dock #4 is located in the yellow part.



Figaro said:


> So it will be launched by 2020?



Maybe, an employee from the JNCX claimed that the construction of the island structure has just started in the earlier of this month.

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## 帅的一匹

The good day for China navy is coming.


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## cirr

31+19  

Based on 31 to be more exact

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> 31+19
> 
> Based on 31 to be more exact



What is the "19" portion? How close to the FC-31 design will the aircraft be?


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## GiantPanda

SinoSoldier said:


> What is the "19" portion? How close to the FC-31 design will the aircraft be?



WS-19


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## Deino

cirr said:


> 31+19
> 
> Based on 31 to be more exact




Ohhhh please, You know my impatience ... it will kill me.

Tell us more.

All the best for 2018.

Deino

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## clarkgap

I need higher definiation...

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## Deino

clarkgap said:


> View attachment 445788
> 
> 
> I need higher definiation...




I did not drink too much yesterday - I promise - but these image make me feel as if I did.

What does the first image show?? The second one looks as if from the cat-teststand??

And what does the text say? 

Deino


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## Akasa

Deino said:


> I did not drink too much yesterday



What's the German definition of "too much"? We haven't even reached Oktober yet.

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## Deino

SinoSoldier said:


> What's the German definition of "too much"? We haven't even reached Oktober yet.




In fact it was one glass of red wine during dinner and a glass of champagne to celebrate new year. ... and concerning your hint to October; I don't like beer, I prefer red wine.

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## clarkgap

Deino said:


> I did not drink too much yesterday - I promise - but these image make me feel as if I did.
> 
> What does the first image show?? The second one looks as if from the cat-teststand??
> 
> And what does the text say?
> 
> Deino



An old image of EMALs.


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## BHarwana

Work on the vessel, which will use a hi-tech launch system, began at a Shanghai shipyard last year but it is not known when it will be completed

PUBLISHED : Thursday, 04 January, 2018, 9:02pm
UPDATED : Thursday, 04 January, 2018, 11:27pm
Comments: 6 







China started building its third aircraft carrier – with a hi-tech launch system – at a Shanghai shipyard last year, according to sources close to the People’s Liberation Army.

One of the sources said Shanghai Jiangnan Shipyard Group was given the go-ahead to begin work on the vessel after military leaders met in Beijing following the annual sessions of China’s legislature and top political advisory body in March.

“But the shipyard is still working on the carrier’s hull, which is expected to take about two years,” the source said. “Building the new carrier will be more complicated and challenging than the other two ships.”

China has been trying to build up a blue-water navy that can operate globally and support its maritime security, but it so far has only one aircraft carrier, the Liaoning – a repurposed Soviet ship it bought from Ukraine that went into service in 2012.

Its first Chinese designed and built aircraft carrier, the Type 001A, is expected to go into full service later this year.

What are the differences between China’s two aircraft carriers?

The sources all said it was too early to say when the third vessel would be launched, but China plans to have four aircraft carrier battle groups in service by 2030, according to naval experts.






Shipbuilders and technicians from Shanghai and Dalian are working on the third vessel, which will have a displacement of about 80,000 tonnes – 10,000 tonnes more than the Liaoning, according to another source close to the PLA Navy.


“China has set up a strong and professional aircraft carrier team since early 2000, when it decided to retrofit the Varyag [the unfinished vessel China bought from Ukraine] to launch as the Liaoning, and it hired many Ukrainian experts ... as technical advisers,” the second source said.

The sources also confirmed that the new vessel, the CV-18, will use a launch system that is more advanced than the Soviet-designed ski-jump systems used in its other two aircraft carriers.

Its electromagnetic aircraft launch system will mean less wear and tear on the planes and it will allow more aircraft to be launched in a shorter time than other systems.

Dalian Shipbuilding Industry spent more than eight years refurbishing and upgrading the Liaoning. It is a subsidiary of state-owned China Shipbuilding Industry Corp (CSIC), as is the Shanghai shipyard.

CSIC chairman Hu Wenming in November told state broadcaster CCTV that China now had the expertise to build any type of aircraft carrier. He said a unit of 5,000 people from across the country had been formed to work on developing the country’s aircraft carrier fleet.

The latest aircraft carrier project has been in the pipeline for some time. Satellite images taken back in 2009 showed a huge frame had been installed at the Shanghai shipyard to accommodate large-scale projects. That year, its general manager Nan Daqing told Shanghai Dragon TV the company was “fully prepared” to build the country’s first home-grown aircraft carrier.


The Jiangnan shipyard is China’s oldest – it was founded during the Qing dynasty in 1865 and became a state-owned enterprise in 1949.

Sources said the layout of the new aircraft carrier, including its flight deck and “island” command centre, would be different from the other two.

“The new vessel will have a smaller tower island than the Liaoning and its sister ship because it needs to accommodate China’s carrier-based J-15 fighter jets, which are quite large,” the first source said.

“It has been suggested that they look to Britain’s warship, the HMS Queen Elizabeth, which has two small tower islands on the deck. That would create more space for the runway and aircraft, but no final decision has been made yet.”

China’s navy has meanwhile begun training its own fighter pilots, rather than recruiting them from the air force, as it prepares to expand the fleet, the official _PLA Daily_ reported.


This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as: Work under way on third aircraft carrier, sources say




http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...s-started-building-its-third-aircraft-carrier

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## MultaniGuy

Good news. The sooner the better.

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## alphapak

China should build one for the Indian ocean.


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## cirr

Type 00X(X>3): two nuclear reactors, four shafts.

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> Type 00X(X>3): two nuclear reactors, four shafts.



Which fighters will make up its airwing? Any clue yet, after all these months?


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## beijingwalker

*China's Next Aircraft Carrier Will Be a Massive Leap Forward*

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## UKBengali

This is to be expected.

@ChineseTiger1986 : Has it been decided whether this aircraft carrier will have EMALs yet?

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## Globenim

Video is just reading out what everyone has been speculating about over the last several months with a machine voice. Not a single shred of new information.

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## ChineseTiger1986

UKBengali said:


> This is to be expected.
> 
> @ChineseTiger1986 : Has it been decided whether this aircraft carrier will have EMALs yet?



The third carrier will have the EMALS and AAG.

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## Figaro

When do you guys think we'll start seeing modules of 003?



Globenim said:


> Video is just reading out what everyone has been speculating about over the last several months with a machine voice. Not a single shred of new information.


The video has a Nimtz class carrier in the background ... sigh

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## Akasa

Figaro said:


> When do you guys think we'll start seeing modules of 003?
> 
> 
> The video has a Nimtz class carrier in the background ... sigh



My prediction for the overall timeline of the Type 003 program:

*2018*

Initial appearance of keel, perhaps some small modules
Construction of main modules
*2019*

Appearance of major modules
Beginning of module assembly
*2020*

Late stage of module assembly
Island installation
This would roughly correspond to the stage that Type 002 was in circa late 2016
*2021*

Launch
Final outfitting of internal equipment & deck
Meanwhile, the supportive equipment and aircraft seem to be on track for tests as well. The J-15 flew in 2009, two years prior to the launch of the Type 001 (Liaoning), so the Type 003 should be quite analogous too in terms of time & schedule:

2019: maiden flight of KJ-600
2019: maiden flight of J-XY
2019: maiden flight of J-15B
The carrier and associated aircraft might enter service in the 2024-2025 timeframe. The carrier might still need some time to train crew though.

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## Taygibay

Figaro said:


> The video has a Nimtz class carrier in the background ... sigh



If you meant the static image then
I think it's a youtube insert, mate.

The video itself is made of Chinese
takes and shows their ships unless
I missed something.

Good day to you, Tay.


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## Deino

Latest photo from Wuhan....

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> Latest photo from Wuhan....
> 
> View attachment 462054


They really need to reduce the size of that island. It looks identical to that of the Kuznetzov/Liaoning, which is even larger than the 002 Island.



Akasa said:


> Which fighters will make up its airwing? Any clue yet, after all these months?


Probably the J-15T ...


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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/979023435404926977


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## Akasa

Figaro said:


> They really need to reduce the size of that island. It looks identical to that of the Kuznetzov/Liaoning, which is even larger than the 002 Island.
> 
> 
> Probably the J-15T ...



J-15T is a tech demonstrator.


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## Deino

Akasa said:


> J-15T is a tech demonstrator.




Indeed ... I think the T-model was only a demonstrator prototype to explore the changes on system and structure for the alter J-15A or B.


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## Akasa

Deino said:


> Indeed ... I think the T-model was only a demonstrator prototype to explore the changes on system and structure for the alter J-15A or B.



You'll know by the end of 2019.


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## LKJ86

An interesting article is posted by 席亚洲, but deleted soon.
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/tzwsexNdxkN1Y32xjk7hiA






Many important informations are confirmed:
1. The steel plates of Type 003 had been cut.
2. Type 003 is builded in a shipyard of southern China.
3. EMALS, conventional power, bigger, and so on.

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## lcloo

LKJ86 said:


> An interesting article is posted by 席亚洲, but deleted soon.
> https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/tzwsexNdxkN1Y32xjk7hiA
> View attachment 474336
> 
> 
> Many important informations are confirmed:
> 1. The steel plates of Type 003 had been cut.
> 2. Type 003 is builded in a shipyard of southern China.
> 3. ...



When they referred to Southern China, it is a relative reference, Shanghai is also considered in Southern China as compared to Dalian in Northen China. So JNCX is a very likely place where the second domestic aircraft carrier will be built.

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## 星海军事

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/996417543052169216
Enlargement of the dry dock is expected to finish in late June.
H2560 -- Xuelong 2 polar icebreaker, docked in March and expected to be undock in late August.
H2576 -- Pony 13P LPG tanker, docked in May and expected to be undock in October.

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

Please a translation.


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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Please a translation.


The building of Type 003 and 075 has made significant progress.

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## terranMarine

LKJ86 said:


> The building of Type 003 and 075 has made significant progress.


I expect nothing less from China's manufacturing capability

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## S10

With luck, I think 003 will launch in 2019, and delivered by 2021. I think by 2025 it will reach full operational capability thanks to experiences operating 001 and 002. They will probably construct two ships of this type. By 2030, I expect China to have 5 carriers in service.

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## Deino

S10 said:


> With luck, I think 003 will launch in 2019, and delivered by 2021. I think by 2025 it will reach full operational capability thanks to experiences operating 001 and 002. They will probably construct two ships of this type. By 2030, I expect China to have 5 carriers in service.



Come on, that's ridiculous. at best it is highly unrealistic??

We haven't seen anything of the 003 carrier yet and alone given the construction time for the 002 after we saw first segments from March 2015 to April 2017 lasted more than two years and I don't think that the yard at Shanghai can build a larger and more complex vessel in half that time.

So if we'll see the first parts after laying keel in late 2018 launch could be done at best in late 2020. IMO more likely later but never ever already in 2019.

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## Tim

Deino said:


> Come on, that's ridiculous. at best it is highly unrealistic??
> 
> We haven't seen anything of the 003 carrier yet and alone given the construction time for the 002 after we saw first segments from March 2015 to April 2017 lasted more than two years and I don't think that the yard at Shanghai can build a larger and more complex vessel in half that time.
> 
> So if we'll see the first parts after laying keel in late 2018 launch could be done at best in late 2020. IMO more likely later but never ever already in 2019.



Why you doubt about China capabilities ???
Chinese build 57-storey skyscraper in 19 days, Western countries done that before ?

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## Deino

Tim said:


> Why you doubt about China capabilities ???
> Chinese build 57-storey skyscraper in 19 days, Western countries done that before ?




Pardon, some of you guys are funny. It has nothing to do with downplaying or underrating Chinese capabilities, but it is simply a fact
- since a carrier is not a skyscraper,
- since a comparison of a carrier and a house is off
- since not even the US built their carriers at such a proposed short time.

Some things simply need time and esp. when you do it for the first time. So in essence, thinking the 003 could already be launched in 2019 is as much unrealistic as to think anyone would run the 100m in 5.2 seconds.

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## MReynolds

I agree with Deino, 2019 is not realistic. The keel has yet to be laid and we're half way through the year already. If the shipyards decide to work around the clock (24/7) then maybe.

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## 帅的一匹

Type 003 is conventional EMALS with 80000 tons full displacement, is that true?

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## Figaro

wanglaokan said:


> Type 003 is conventional EMALS with 80000 tons full displacement, is that true?


Yep. The only missing component was the EM catapult, which was finally selected over steam in July of last year.


S10 said:


> With luck, I think 003 will launch in 2019, and delivered by 2021. I think by 2025 it will reach full operational capability thanks to experiences operating 001 and 002. They will probably construct two ships of this type. By 2030, I expect China to have 5 carriers in service.


I’m sorry but this prediction is completely ridiculous. I don’t think they can launch a 80,000 ton CATOBAR carrier within 1 year in any scenario short of wartime. Since we haven’t seen any modules thus far, 2019 seems completely unrealistic ... at best, you’ll see an advanced stage of construction, but certainly not a launch.


Deino said:


> Pardon, some of you guys are funny. It has nothing to do with downplaying or underrating Chinese capabilities, but it is simply a fact
> - since a carrier is not a skyscraper,
> - since a comparison of a carrier and a house is off
> - since not even the US built their carriers at such a proposed short time.
> 
> Some things simply need time and esp. when you do it for the first time. So in essence, thinking the 003 could already be launched in 2019 is as much unrealistic as to think anyone would run the 100m in 5.2 seconds.


I doubt these people extensively followed 002’s progress from 2015 to 2017, so cut them some slack


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## Akasa

Type 003 will launch in 2021 and enter service in 2023. By which time both India and China will have two aircraft carriers in operation.


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## Akasa

Figaro said:


> You mean 3 aircraft carriers in operation (001, 002, 003) ... in addition to the latter's huge qualitative edge?



If we're talking about the 2023 date, sure, although delays cannot be ruled out. As for a qualitative comparison, I'll leave that until we know more about the type of aircraft the IN chooses for its carriers as well as the vessels' sensors & defensive weaponry.


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## terranMarine

Without the breaking news of Chinese railgun mounted on a ship, he would still argue US railgun is far more advanced and way ahead and he would be doubting whether China actually had a working railgun to begin with. Just because there's hardly any information about Chinese EM doesn't mean it's not making fast progress. As always time will tell

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## Deino

Akasa said:


> Type 003 will launch in 2021 and enter service in 2023. By which time both India and China will have two aircraft carriers in operation.



*
Can we please leave out India out of this thread since you never can compare the Indian with the Chinese carrier program ...* to admit I'm not even sure if the first IN carrier will be ready by that time?

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## Deino

*Guys, once again: Can we please leave out India out of this thread since it is irrelevant !

Please stay on topic.*

Deino


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## Deino

And so it begins ???? .... I just found but I need a translation and an estimation how reliable?

https://m.weibo.cn/status/4246146660221688 (via: http://bbs.meyet.com/thread-321328-4716-1.html)

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## IblinI

Deino said:


> And so it begins ???? .... I just found but I need a translation and an estimation how reliable?
> 
> https://m.weibo.cn/status/4246146660221688 (via: http://bbs.meyet.com/thread-321328-4716-1.html)
> 
> View attachment 478804


It is still uncertain.

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## Deino

YuChen said:


> It is still uncertain.



Thanks ... since it would be the first CG of that sort similar to the then Type 002 under construction.

Can You explain what are the arguments in favour to or against it in that discussion?

Thanks again,
Deino


----------



## IblinI

Deino said:


> Thanks ... since it would be the first CG of that sort similar to the then Type 002 under construction.
> 
> Can You explain what are the arguments in favour to or against it in that discussion?
> 
> Thanks again,
> Deino


He seems to be quiet confident,but the dock is currently occupied with LPG, 055 and other ships, so, who knows.


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## Deino

But how could there be already modules if the dock is still occupied?


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## Tsubodai

I suppose there could be some modules completed and prepositioned, but the drydock still occupied.


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## JSCh

Another drawing that claim to show the current state of 003.
From weibo member -
蓝鲨小队.
请再次记住指挥长今天发过三号的真实状态

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## UserUnknown2025

We are witnessing history

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## lcloo

JSCh said:


> Another drawing that claim to show the current state of 003.
> From weibo member -
> 蓝鲨小队.
> 请再次记住指挥长今天发过三号的真实状态


Waiting to see when it is moved to dry dock.

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## Deino

JSCh said:


> Another drawing that claim to show the current state of 003.
> From weibo member -
> 蓝鲨小队.
> 请再次记住指挥长今天发过三号的真实状态




And how reliable is he?


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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> And how reliable is he?


He can be trusted.

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## english_man

LKJ86 said:


> He can be trusted.



Just to clarify, am I right in assuming that some module assembly work, has begun on 003 inside one of the large sheds, and once the 055 Cruiser, and the other ship to the side of it, have had their work finished in the dry dock, then when they move out, then the 003 construction will be moved outside?? btw:- how does anyone know 003 is actually being constructed, as being inside a hallway, its hidden from view.......unless you work in the shipyard?


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## LKJ86

english_man said:


> Just to clarify, am I right in assuming that some module assembly work, has begun on 003 inside one of the large sheds, and once the 055 Cruiser, and the other ship to the side of it, have had their work finished in the dry dock, then when they move out, then the 003 construction will be moved outside?? btw:- how does anyone know 003 is actually being constructed, as being inside a hallway, its hidden from view.......unless you work in the shipyard?


Time will tell the true.


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## lcloo

english_man said:


> Just to clarify, am I right in assuming that some module assembly work, has begun on 003 inside one of the large sheds, and once the 055 Cruiser, and the other ship to the side of it, have had their work finished in the dry dock, then when they move out, then the 003 construction will be moved outside?? btw:- how does anyone know 003 is actually being constructed, as being inside a hallway, its hidden from view.......unless you work in the shipyard?


Most of the big shrimps have some kind of connections with the shipyards and the military or military related institutions, and their leaks are usually tolerated by the authorities as long as they are within certain limits.

As for type 003 (or type 002 preferred by somes), though the works have commenced, most of the big shrimps suggested that we would not see it soon as the material procurements are still in progress. We may have to wait for later date than anticipated. I would say end of this year or may be early next year.

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## Deino

Just found at the CDF posted by "hmmwv" (http://www.china-defense.com/smf/index.php?topic=6622.msg321805#msg321805)



> fzgfzy release a series of photos allegedly showing current 003 progress at JNCX, and mentioned right now it's in sub assembly production, and we are a long way from seeing any major modules that can be recognized as carrier part. Mainly due to changes in design (I'd imagine that's related to switching to EM Launch) and subsequent upgrades in the new JNCX facility.
> 
> From the look of it the pictures shows JNCX's brand new carrier fabrication building which became operational last November.





> 不要太想当然，我当时就说了，一旦要改就快不了，电蒸pk也是我先发的，之后改图纸可改死人了。到船厂还要按生产再深化一次图纸，我一小姐姐当时负责算某大补的绝缘，就用了一个月，更别说复杂几十倍的航母。至于新厂，盖了建，建又改（加东西），加了又加。厂还没整利索呢（见图），有些东西堆傍边，还不是03的。某地里面应该是有些号好的料了，小的组立可能也有，大分段就扯了，一旦展开是不能脱节的，前面的东西没有一定的量，是不可能进入下一步的。

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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Just found at the CDF posted by "hmmwv" (http://www.china-defense.com/smf/index.php?topic=6622.msg321805#msg321805)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 479063
> View attachment 479064
> View attachment 479065


From CJDBY.


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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> From CJDBY.



Regrettably I only found it at the CDF ... do you have the link? Thanks in advance.


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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Regrettably I only found it at the CDF ... do you have the link? Thanks in advance.


https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=...5&extra=page=2&filter=author&orderby=dateline

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## Deino

Just to clarify some confusion, but we have reports and rumours since some time - in fact some post say this since more than a year - that construction of the first Type 003 vessel has started ... but what's the current consensus when it started in fact?

Best,
Deino


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## Tsubodai

Deino you might like to qualify what you mean by started? Because there can be a number of different "start" dates. Do you mean first steel cut? First modules started? Not to be a pedant but you could be a number of different dates.

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## Deino

Tsubodai said:


> Deino you might like to qualify what you mean by started? Because there can be a number of different "start" dates. Do you mean first steel cut? First modules started? Not to be a pedant but you could be a number of different dates.




Agreed ... Sorry for being misleading: I meant "first steel cut"!


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## lmjiao

Deino said:


> Agreed ... Sorry for being misleading: I meant "first steel cut"!



That must be long ago.


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## Tsubodai

I wonder if the PLAN have considered a split Island configuration, as per the QE-class?


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## LKJ86

Tsubodai said:


> I wonder if the PLAN have considered a split Island configuration, as per the QE-class?


Why?
I think PLAN prefers the Ford-style.

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## Tsubodai

If nuclear, yes. But if conventional, given the broad dimensions posted here, a split island configuration could be useful in gaining an additional deck-edge lift on the starboard side.


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## LKJ86

British always makes somethings weird.

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## Tsubodai

LKJ86 said:


> British always makes somethings weird.


Haha, yes. And sometimes they work out.


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## LKJ86

Tsubodai said:


> Haha, yes. And sometimes they work out.

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## Tsubodai

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

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## Deino

Deino said:


> Agreed ... Sorry for being misleading: I meant "first steel cut"!




Anyone with an answer???


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## english_man

LKJ86 said:


> Why?
> I think PLAN prefers the Ford-style.



Sorry, but the British are right on this one!.........i.e separating the running of the ship, to the running of the flight crew!


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## LKJ86

english_man said:


> Sorry, but the British are right on this one!.........i.e separating the running of the ship, to the running of the flight crew!


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Type 003 image from CSIC 701

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## Figaro

LKJ86 said:


> Type 003 image from CSIC 701
> View attachment 481453
> 
> 
> View attachment 481454


Why is the island still so big (looks comparable to 002)? I thought they were aiming for a 25-30% size reduction ...


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## LKJ86

Type 003 may be driven by nuclear power.

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## cirr

The starting point(floor area 1666675 square meter) of PLAN's flattops

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 481844



PLEASE  ... @LKJ86 !!! I admire your post and each contribution ... but please add a short translation so that the non-Chinese speaker/-reader know at least what's the point. 

... and it is not a request by me, but a rule made by the forum's Admin.

Best and keep on...
Deino

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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> PLEASE  ... @LKJ86 !!! I admire your post and each contribution ... but please add a short translation so that the non-Chinese speaker/-reader know at least what's the point.
> 
> ... and it is not a request by me, but a rule made by the forum's Admin.
> 
> Best and keep on...
> Deino


China is planning a nuclear-powered icebreaker, and there is a tender notice about that.

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## Tsubodai

I think if the 3rd carrier is broadly 80000-85000 tonnes, c.320 meters long and c.80 beam across flight deck, has at least 3 and preferable 4 deck-edge lifts, and has 3 catapults aligned so planes can be ready to launch and not interfere with aircraft landing, it will be an excellent platform for operating aircraft.

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## Tsubodai

After seeing the CSIC image of the possible 003 aircraft carrier, I thought the ship looked not much bigger than PLANS 16 Liaoning and the 002 carrier. Now I realise it was only a CGI, and the angle was not the best for a comparison, but it didn’t look to me like an 80000 tonne vessel.

Now I am not saying the comments about 003 being 80000 tonnes are wrong, but to me the photo looked like a modified Liaoning. So then I thought about the article in the Chinese Defence magazine on how we could modify PLANS 16 (posted under CV-16 Liaoning - Type 001 Aircraft Carrier News & Discussions thread). What if 003 carrier is based on the Liaoning’s hull form, but modifying it as much as they can? China has a history of this, look at the Type052B/C/D evolution. What if the same philosophy was used on PLANS 16 Liaoning? 003 carrier would have a flat deck, three catapults and 3 deck-edge lifts, with an increased 16000m2 deck area instead of 14700m2. With the same hull, propulsion, and systems as 002 carrier, the only new addition will be the catapults. Especially if the 003 carrier is a one-off, this makes sense . Then 004 carrier only introduces nuclear propulsion and new hull as new factors, everything else is proven! Just a thought.


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## ILC

^^
It is possible, then I believe she could be close to 70000 tonnes.


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## Figaro

ILC said:


> ^^
> It is possible, then I believe she could be close to 70000 tonnes.


70,000 tonnes full displacement would be highly unlikely given that the Liaoning is already at over 60k tonnes. Most likely, the carrier will be around 80-85k tonnes full displacement ... a CGI is just a CGI.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> 70,000 tonnes full displacement would be highly unlikely given that the Liaoning is already at over 60k tonnes. Most likely, the carrier will be around 80-85k tonnes full displacement ... a CGI is just a CGI.



The Type 003 is now controversial, since there is chance it will be nuclear powered and being a 100,000+ tonnes supercarrier.

We will only know when it is officially launched.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 003 is now controversial, since there is chance it will be nuclear powered and being a 100,000+ tonnes supercarrier.
> 
> We will only know when it is officially launched.




Actually I don't think so. There are indeed controversial rumours around but similar to such reports for other projects (the H-20 is already flying, the J-20 uses a +210kN WS-15, there is already a secret carrier-borne AEW operational off the CV-16) I would rate them BS or fan-boys wet dreams at best.

All reliable reports tend to conventional carrier with a displacement of 80000tonnes or a bit more.

Deino

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Actually I don't think so. There are indeed controversial rumours around but similar to such reports for other projects (the H-20 is already flying, the J-20 uses a +210kN WS-15, there is already a secret carrier-borne AEW operational off the CV-16) I would rate them BS or fan-boys wet dreams at best.
> 
> All reliable reports tend to conventional carrier with a displacement of 80000tonnes or a bit more.
> 
> Deino



All 'reliable reports' claimed that the third carrier will still use the steam catapult, until rear admiral Ma Weiming cleared all the doubt.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> All 'reliable reports' claimed that the third carrier will still use the steam catapult, until rear admiral Ma Weiming cleared all the doubt.




That that was long, long ago ... the recent reliable ones all hint to the EMALS, whereas no reliable one (at least none that I know) says 003 will be a 100000t CVN.

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## Tsubodai

Deino the actual significance of this post is as follows:

"China has opened the bid to construct its first nuclear-powered icebreaker support ship, a move to prepare for the construction of a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, military observers said."

From the English version of Chinamil.


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## Deino

Tsubodai said:


> Deino the actual significance of this post is as follows:
> 
> "China has opened the bid to construct its first nuclear-powered icebreaker support ship, a move to prepare for the construction of a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, military observers said."
> 
> From the English version of Chinamil.



Indeed, but - at least IMO - for the already under construction 003 this is too late but indeed a "move to prepare for the construction of a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier" aka 004.


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## Tsubodai

You have articulated my inferred analysis

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## samsara

*China's 1st nuclear-powered icebreaker in the pipeline*
http://www.ecns.cn/m/news/military/2018-06-25/detail-ifyvmiee7354012.shtml


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## 星海军事

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1012545041666138112
1. The icebreaker and marine platform are military-to-civilian projects, not the other way around.
2. Future Chinese nuclear aircraft carrier and nuclear submarine have their own special designed reactors.

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## JSCh

From weibo user,

浩汉防务-菜兵
上传于 今天 13:27
来自 小米8周年旗舰手机
疑似江南长兴的003型航母分段面世，从分段结构上看，应该为航母的机库部分，而外飘则会在机库上面两层以上才搭建，根据更进一步的消息看，该航母的机库宽度与17相类似
*13:27 Today*
Suspected type 003 aircraft carrier segment section at Jiangnan Shipyard, Changxing. From the perspective of the segment structure, it should be the hangar part of the aircraft carrier. The outer flange segment parts will be built on the upper top two layers of the hangar. From further news, it is said that the hangar width of this aircraft carrier is similar to that of the 017.​

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## rcrmj

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 003 is now controversial, since there is chance it will be nuclear powered and being a 100,000+ tonnes supercarrier.
> 
> We will only know when it is officially launched.


its not gonna happen, and 003's full displacement is no more than 80,000 tons````


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## cirr

JSCh said:


> From weibo user,
> 
> 浩汉防务-菜兵
> 上传于 今天 13:27
> 来自 小米8周年旗舰手机
> 疑似江南长兴的003型航母分段面世，从分段结构上看，应该为航母的机库部分，而外飘则会在机库上面两层以上才搭建，根据更进一步的消息看，该航母的机库宽度与17相类似
> *13:27 Today*
> Suspected type 003 aircraft carrier segment section at Jiangnan Shipyard, Changxing. From the perspective of the segment structure, it should be the hangar part of the aircraft carrier. The outer flange segment parts will be built on the upper top two layers of the hangar. From further news, it is said that the hangar width of this aircraft carrier is similar to that of the 017.​

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

JSCh said:


> From weibo user,
> 
> 浩汉防务-菜兵
> 上传于 今天 13:27
> 来自 小米8周年旗舰手机
> 疑似江南长兴的003型航母分段面世，从分段结构上看，应该为航母的机库部分，而外飘则会在机库上面两层以上才搭建，根据更进一步的消息看，该航母的机库宽度与17相类似
> *13:27 Today*​





cirr said:


> ...





LKJ86 said:


> ...



How reliable is this information that it is indeed a carrier? I just got quite a harsh reply in another forum - quite interesting from a usually not too active Chinese member stating it is again only a supertanker.

Also the buildings around do not fit to the expected yard and its dry dock no. 4.

Deino

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## 星海军事

Deino said:


> How reliable is this information that it is indeed a carrier? I just got quite a harsh reply in another forum - quite interesting from a usually not too active Chinese member stating it is again only a supertanker.
> 
> Also the buildings around do not fit to the expected yard and its dry dock no. 4.
> 
> Deino



It's the heavy assembly platform inside the new site of JSCG.



星海军事 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/996417543052169216
> Enlargement of the dry dock is expected to finish in late June.
> H2560 -- Xuelong 2 polar icebreaker, docked in March and expected to be undock in late August.
> H2576 -- Pony 13P LPG tanker, docked in May and expected to be undock in October.


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## cirr

Deino said:


> How reliable is this information that it is indeed a carrier? I just got quite a harsh reply in another forum - quite interesting from a usually not too active Chinese member stating it is again only a supertanker.
> 
> Also the buildings around do not fit to the expected yard and its dry dock no. 4.
> 
> Deino



Not only JN, DL is reportedly working on same.


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## LKJ86

cirr said:


> Not only JN, DL is reportedly working on same.


You mean this one?

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## nang2

LKJ86 said:


> You mean this one?
> View attachment 488448


If you can build something, build two of them with twice the money.

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> You mean this one?
> View attachment 488448
> 
> View attachment 488451



Do you mean there's another - second - Type 003 under construction at Dalian???

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## ChineseTiger1986

rcrmj said:


> its not gonna happen, and 003's full displacement is no more than 80,000 tons````



The Type 003 and Type 004 are identical twin, and both gonna be nuclear powered.

This is coming from someone who is even prophet than big cat.

The Type 004 is no more than 18 months later than the Type 003, so it is basically the same class of ships using the same catapults and propulsion.

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## Akasa

星海军事 said:


> It's the heavy assembly platform inside the new site of JSCG.



Any idea when we will know the results of the naval 5th-generation fighter tender? FC-31 or J-20?


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## ILC

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 003 and Type 004 are identical twin, and both gonna be nuclear powered.
> 
> This is coming from someone who is even prophet than big cat.
> 
> The Type 004 is no more than 18 months later than the Type 003, so it is basically the same class of ships using the name catapult and propulsion.


I doubt it, what I know from credible rumors is that it could be more likely that we will see 003 carrier with the conventional steam turbines propulsion, like the Liaoning and type 002.

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## ChineseTiger1986

ILC said:


> I doubt it, what I know from credible rumors is that it could be more likely that we will see 003 carrier with the conventional steam turbines propulsion, like the Liaoning and type 002.



Soon we will see the island structure, so we can determine what type of propulsion it really uses.


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## LKJ86

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Soon we will see the island structure, so we can determine what type of propulsion it really uses.

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## ChineseTiger1986

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 488481



梁无咎 and lucas_韩 are the only two big shrimps insisting the Type 003 is nuclear powered.

In few months, we are going to see they are real prophets or not.

BTW, the Type 004 is the twin sister of the Type 003, so it is going to be the same class of the ships using the same catapults and propulsion.

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## Akasa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> 梁无咎 and lucas_韩 are the only two big shrimps insisting the Type 003 is nuclear powered.
> 
> In few months, we are going to see they are real prophets or not.
> 
> BTW, the Type 004 is the twin sister of the Type 003, so it is going to be the same class of the ships using the same catapults and propulsion.



梁无咎 is not a big shrimp. He is a "tech manager" of a media company who likely has no connections to the PLAN or the defence industry.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Akasa said:


> 梁无咎 is not a big shrimp. He is a "tech manager" of a media company who likely has no connections to the PLAN or the defence industry.



lucas_韩 is a staff member of the JN shipyard, he got even more inside information than fzgfzy, and all his past predictions have been turned into the reality.

BTW, you are an Indian, so I have no common language with you.

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## LKJ86

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> BTW, you are an Indian, so I have no common language with you.


Really???

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## ChineseTiger1986

LKJ86 said:


> Really???



No Chinese member will ever brag about Brahmos and other Western/Russian weapons with the Indian paint.

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## Akasa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> lucas_韩 is a staff member of the JN shipyard, he got even more inside information than fzgfzy, and all his past predictions have been turned into the reality.
> 
> BTW, you are an Indian, so I have no common language with you.



I wasn't referring to Lucas. 

Whether I am Indian or not does not matter in this case.


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## 星海军事

Akasa said:


> 梁无咎 is not a big shrimp. He is a "tech manager" of a media company who likely has no connections to the PLAN or the defence industry.


You mean "tech manager" of a _made-up_ company.


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## Akasa

星海军事 said:


> You mean "tech manager" of a _made-up_ company.





It gets even better!


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## rcrmj

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 003 and Type 004 are identical twin, and both gonna be nuclear powered.
> 
> This is coming from someone who is even prophet than big cat.
> 
> The Type 004 is no more than 18 months later than the Type 003, so it is basically the same class of ships using the same catapults and propulsion.


dont tell me big cat this and that, it took them years to draw up the blue print, and months of sleepless nights of heavy works on blue print just to change steam catapult to electronic, replacing engine requires a complete change of design of most parts, and it is not going to happen, as the 003's engine hull was already built, and now they are moving to other parts of the construction`````only if you are willing to throw millions into trash, and willing to accept 5 years delay of 003 construction completion

for the plane part, forget about J-20's configuration, it is a new platform, and SAC is the main developer, it will use all the latest techs aviable in China````and it wont be as big and heavy as J-20```more less like the size of F-18E/F

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## ChineseTiger1986

rcrmj said:


> dont tell me big cat this and that, it took them years to draw up the blue print, and months of sleepless nights of heavy works on blue print just to change steam catapult to electronic, replacing engine requires a complete change of design of most parts, and it is not going to happen, as the 003's engine hull was already built, and now they are moving to other parts of the construction`````only if you are willing to throw millions into trash, and willing to accept 5 years delay of 003 construction completion
> 
> for the plane part, forget about J-20's configuration, it is a new platform, and SAC is the main developer, it will use all the latest techs aviable in China````and it wont be as big and heavy as J-20```more less like the size of F-18E/F



fzgfzy doesn't seem to be the most informative person on regard of the Type 003.

He even made some erroneous prediction on the maiden sea trial of the Type 002.

We shall wait and see the final island structure of the Type 003 in order to determine what type of propulsion it really has.

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## rcrmj

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> fzgfzy doesn't seem to be the most informative person on regard of the Type 003.
> 
> He even made some erroneous prediction on the maiden sea trial of the Type 002.
> 
> We shall wait and see the final island structure of the Type 003 in order to determine what type of propulsion it really has.


动力舱室都造好了，现在在造防鱼类舱室模块······fzgfzy does not work for those institutions``````


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## samsara

Akasa said:


> I wasn't referring to Lucas.
> 
> Whether I am Indian or not does not matter in this case.


Indeed it's a big disappointment for seeing any Chinese member here to entertain your persistent and repeated confirmation solicitation. Admittedly you're working very hard here to hunt down such responses through various methods incl the false positive baiting.

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## Akasa

samsara said:


> Indeed it's a big disappointment for seeing any Chinese member here to entertain your persistent and repeated confirmation solicitation. Admittedly you're working very hard here to hunt down such responses through various methods incl the false positive baiting.



LOL what are you talking about? Seriously, could you phrase your sentence such that an "Indian" like myself could actually comprehend it?


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## samsara

Akasa said:


> LOL what are you talking about? Seriously, could you phrase your sentence such that an "Indian" like myself could actually comprehend it?


It's more a message to others than you. You can ignore it.

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## lmjiao

It is now a good time to start a new Type 004 thread already.

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## ChineseTiger1986

lmjiao said:


> It is now a good time to start a new Type 004 thread already.



The Type 004 is the twin sister of the Type 003, so there is no point to open another thread for a vessel of the same class.

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## Figaro

Wait, China is building two 003 carriers simultaneously?

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## Deino

lmjiao said:


> It is now a good time to start a new Type 004 thread already.




Why ?? First of all we don't have any fat seen yet and even if, as long as it's the same class, there's no need for a separate one. We also don't start a thread for each Type 52D.

Deino

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> Wait, China is building two 003 carriers simultaneously?



It is de facto the second ship of the Type 003, but for the sake of alphabetical order, it is assigned as the "Type 004".



Deino said:


> Why ?? First of all we don't have any fat seen yet and even if, as long as it's the same class, there's no need for a separate one. We also don't start a thread for each Type 52D.
> 
> Deino



If the Type 003 is conventional powered, then the Type 004 also has to be the same, then the nuclear powered ones have to belong to the batch of the Type 005-006.

The modules of the island structure might be revealed in just few months away, so hopefully the mystery should be solved.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Now fzgfzy is not quite certain about the propulsion of the Type 003, although he personally leans toward the conventional powered, but the nuclear powered is also a possibility, he is not denying it.

And this is where the first module is located on the hull of the supercarrier, since JN uses the British method of construction, while DL uses the American one.

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## Daniel808

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Now fzgfzy is not quite certain about the propulsion of the Type 003, although he personally leans toward the conventional powered, but the nuclear powered is also a possibility, he is not denying it.
> 
> And this is where the first module is located on the hull of the supercarrier, since JN uses the British method of construction, while DL uses the American one.
> 
> 
> View attachment 488884
> 
> 
> View attachment 488885
> 
> 
> View attachment 488883



What is the different between british method (Jiangnan Shipyard) and american method (Dalian Shipyard)?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Daniel808 said:


> What is the different between british method (Jiangnan Shipyard) and american method (Dalian Shipyard)?



The British method is to assemble with bigger modules, while the American one uses the smaller modules.

This also reflects their way of building the destroyers.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The construction of the Type 002 vs Type 003.

The Type 002 still needs to laying the keel, whereas the Type 003 only relies on the super large modules.

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## Deino

Indeed ... so let the show begin 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1023073667301830657

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## IblinI

There is a good news and a bad one, the bad news is it is probably not nuclear power and the good news is two EMALS CV is under construction. 

PS:Since when does building two conventional EMALS CV becomes a bad news.

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## Deino

YuChen said:


> There is a good news and a bad one, the bad news is it is probably not nuclear power and the good news is two EMALS CV is under construction.
> 
> PS:Since when does building two conventional EMALS CV becomes a bad news.



To admit I'm sorry in case I've missed it, but how far is no. 4 confirmed at Dalian?

003 at Shanghai is now fixed but at Dalian???

Best, 
Deino


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## IblinI

Deino said:


> To admit I'm sorry in case I've missed it, but how far is no. 4 confirmed at Dalian?
> 
> 003 at Shanghai is now fixed but at Dalian???
> 
> Best,
> Deino


Nothing solid except a few word from "big shrimps" like Slayerhuahua and others ,we still have to wait for pics.

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## Figaro

YuChen said:


> There is a good news and a bad one, the bad news is it is probably not nuclear power and the good news is two EMALS CV is under construction.
> 
> PS:Since when does building two conventional EMALS CV becomes a bad news.


To be fair, very few of us anticipated nuclear propulsion for 003. But then again, very few of us also anticipated EM catapults ...

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## samsara

Figaro said:


> To be fair, very few of us anticipated nuclear propulsion for 003. But then again, very few of us also anticipated EM catapults ...


… and many Chinese military observers had claimed the very first module won't be visible until next 6 to 12 months. I don't see any one who posted diligently making the random claims about the very first presence of the module of Type 003 gave any correct indication that the 1st module would show up in JNCX in THIS JULY. 

Instead many said only by 2019 we may see the first module  it happened at both PDF & SDF. It's hard for some to admit the new reality that PLAAF is not keen into publicity nowadays. And JNCX is tough to peek for paparazzi  Good news to know the dual build-up. I don't want to wait for another two decades just to see the many fleets of Chinese CVs in blue water.

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## 星海军事

samsara said:


> … and many Chinese military observers had claimed the very first module won't be visible until next 6 to 12 months. I don't see any one who posted diligently making the random claims about the very first presence of the module of Type 003 gave any correct indication that the 1st module would show up in JNCX in THIS JULY.
> 
> Instead many said only by 2019 we may see the first module  it happened at both PDF & SDF. It's hard for some to admit the new reality that PLAAF is not keen into publicity nowadays. And JNCX is tough to peek for paparazzi  Good news to know the dual build-up. I don't want to wait for another two decades just to see the many fleets of Chinese CVs in blue water.





Deino said:


> If we assume a similar timeline for the Type 002 as seen with the Type 001A vessel, I would expect something like this:
> 
> View attachment 419086



If Deino knew the correct construction starting date of the first indigenous carrier, he would have made a decent guess.



星海军事 said:


> According to state media, the construction of the first Chinese indigenous aircraft carrier began in November 2013.


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## Deino

星海军事 said:


> If Deino knew the correct construction starting date of the first indigenous carrier, he would have made a decent guess.




Indeed ... however one always open question is, how is "start of construction " defined? Irst steel cut? Lay down? ... and that was the first clear visible sign I remember in April 2015.

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## 星海军事

Deino said:


> Indeed ... however one always open question is, how is "start of construction " defined? Irst steel cut? Lay down? ... and that was the first clear visible sign I remember in April 2015.



The first steel cut. Modules of 002 showed up months before its laying down in March 2015.

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## Akasa

星海军事 said:


> The first steel cut. Modules of 002 showed up months before its laying down in March 2015.



Are there two Type 003 vessels being built or just one?


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## Deino

星海军事 said:


> The first steel cut. Modules of 002 showed up months before its laying down in March 2015.



Since I'm always eager to learn I beg for help esp since naval issues are not my favourite topic, so it might be easy that I missed certain thing.

Could you please mention a few dates? 
When was first steel cut and when did the first modules appear prior to lay down in April 2015?
Thanks in advance...


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## 星海军事

Deino said:


> Since I'm always eager to learn I beg for help esp since naval issues are not my favourite topic, so it might be easy that I missed certain thing.
> 
> Could you please mention a few dates?
> When was first steel cut and when did the first modules appear prior to lay down in April 2015?
> Thanks in advance...





星海军事 said:


> According to state media, the construction of the first Chinese indigenous aircraft carrier began in November 2013.



The first modules of 002 were transported to the stacking yard more than 8 months before its laying down.

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## waja2000

Akasa said:


> Are there two Type 003 vessels being built or just one?


according news seem two type 003 AC will built at same time, one in Shanghai shipyard, other one in Dalian shipyard.


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## LKJ86

Dalian

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> Dalian
> View attachment 489631




Must be from this Image ... I tried to resize it to roughly the same part!??

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> Must be from this Image ... I tried to resize it to roughly the same part!??
> 
> View attachment 489656
> View attachment 489657





LKJ86 said:


> Dalian
> View attachment 489631


What is this block exactly?


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## Deino

Figaro said:


> What is this block exactly?




Not sure if it is indeed a Segment or module for a carrier, but it is at least a large ship that has a torpedo-protection system / -belt (not sure how it is called?)

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## 星海军事

Deino said:


> Not sure if it is indeed a Segment or module for a carrier, but it is at least a large ship that has a torpedo-protection system / -belt (not sure how it is called?)


Torpedo bulkhead.

That is the demo module built before construction of 002 began.

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## Daniel808

星海军事 said:


> Torpedo bulkhead.
> 
> That is the demo module built before construction of 002 began.



Is Dalian shipyard building Type 003 Aircraft carrier, sir?


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## Deino

星海军事 said:


> Torpedo bulkhead.
> 
> That is the demo module built before construction of 002 began.



So, no second Type 003 at Dalian or just this part is not ?


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## Daniel808

Deino said:


> So, no second Type 003 at Dalian or just this part is not ?



He only comment that module in second photo is not Type 003 Aircraft Carrier module.

But he still doesn't comment about module in first photo a couple days ago (Dalian)


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## Deino

Daniel808 said:


> He only comment that module in second photo is not Type 003 Aircraft Carrier module.
> 
> But he still doesn't comment about module in first photo a couple days ago (Dalian)




You mean this one?


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## Daniel808

Deino said:


> You mean this one?
> 
> View attachment 489783



Yes, that one.
Is that a module for Type 003 Aircraft Carrier?


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## 星海军事

Deino said:


> You mean this one?
> 
> View attachment 489783





Daniel808 said:


> Yes, that one.
> Is that a module for Type 003 Aircraft Carrier?



No. It belongs to a civilian ship.

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## JSCh



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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1026567652435812352

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## cirr

Straight from the horse's mouth and the clearest indication yet that DL is working flat-out on 003 #2

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/Ne9uYzFksKnM3xy08PVLVg

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1031232824941129729

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## lcloo

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1031232824941129729


A closer look, seemed to be progressing very fast.

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> A closer look, seemed to be progressing very fast.
> View attachment 493112




To admit I had a similar idea, but was not sure at first sight !

Anyway I'm not sure since here in July these blocks - or are these buildings ?? - were also already there.

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## ILC

Now we are waiting for the pics from DL if the rumors are credible, double carrier build up, that would be sth  By 2022, 4 carriers, 3 in service and one outfitting.

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## cirr

cirr said:


> Straight from the horse's mouth and the clearest indication yet that DL is working flat-out on 003 #2
> 
> https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/Ne9uYzFksKnM3xy08PVLVg

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## Daniel808

cirr said:


> View attachment 493816



So Steel Cutting for Another Type 003 AC (CVBG-19) in Dalian Shipyard already begun?

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## english_man

Sorry, not trying to be funny.........BUT where is the proof that 003 is under construction?...........where is the text from Chinese sources, actually referring to 003?........and pictures of buildings, and of cartoon stick men is not the same as actually seeing modules of a vessel.............

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## Figaro

english_man said:


> Sorry, not trying to be funny.........BUT where is the proof that 003 is under construction?...........where is the text from Chinese sources, actually referring to 003?........and pictures of buildings, and of cartoon stick men is not the same as actually seeing modules of a vessel.............


Chinese military development usually come from very basic drawings. Remember the J-10 WS-10 TVC drawing? In this case, we have a very clear module of the 003 taken last month ...

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## lcloo

cirr said:


> View attachment 493816


The Chinese character in the drawing "思号XX仪式“ = ”四号XX仪式“， which means "No.4 XX ceremony", implying aircraft carrier No.4 steel cutting ceremony.

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## lcloo

Riddle solving time...

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## lcloo

Trying to solve the Riddle...
The latest nuclear powered EMALS aircraft carriers have been secretly build at 2 shipyards. Currently, in Shanghai, modular block farication is in progress. At the earliest, around November this year, assembly of these module blocks will commence.

In Dalian shipyard, work (steel cutting) commenced in May 2018 (see a few posts earlier). Spies (i.e. wall climbers) will be able to spot the module blocks after CV16 Liaoning completes her maintenance works. Module block assembly will take place around August 2019.

Last words... this is just a riddle solving, don't take it too seriously.

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> ....
> 
> Last words... this is just a riddle solving, don't take it too seriously.



Exactly ... especially since most sources and IMO the most reliable ones always say it is NOT a nuclear powered EMALS aircraft yet.


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## Grandy

Recently, in the homepage of AVIC's website (China Aviation Industry official website), the figure of the J-20 carrier aircraft appeared.
A picture of a J-20 in a carrier.
Although this picture is a CG picture made by netizens a few years ago, the picture appears on the AVIC's official website gives people a lot of expectations.

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## Deino

Grandy said:


> Recently, in the homepage of AVIC's website (China Aviation Industry official website), the figure of the J-20 carrier aircraft appeared.
> A picture of a J-20 in a carrier.
> Although this picture is a CG picture made by netizens a few years ago, the picture appears on the AVIC's official website gives people a lot of expectations.



Actually I won't overrate or over-interpret this post. Maybe it was just since it is a nice CG, maybe laziness of the one who put it on the page ...


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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Actually I won't overrate or over-interpret this post. Maybe it was just since it is a nice CG, maybe laziness of the one who put it on the page ...


The chief designer of J-20 gets promoted to the vice general manager of AVIC.
It maybe make the new leader happy.

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> The chief designer of J-20 gets promoted to the vice general manager of AVIC.
> It maybe make the new leader happy.



Exactly my idea ... and one decided to put a fancy J-20 image on AVIC's site but missed that the J-20 is not a carrier-borne type.


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## JSCh

> 捣蛋补队
> 今天 10:08 来自 Weibo.intl
> 003最新进展 3个大分段 许多小分段。[鼓掌][鼓掌][鼓掌]感谢@二更手绘工坊 提供绘画。


*捣蛋补队 
Today 10:08 from Weibo.intl*
003 latest developments 3 large segments Many small segments. [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] Thanks @二更手绘工作室 for painting.








​

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## JSCh



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## Place Of Space

JSCh said:


>



Are these the parts of new aircraft carrier?


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## Figaro

Place Of Space said:


> Are these the parts of new aircraft carrier?


Yes

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## 星海军事

星海军事 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/996417543052169216
> Enlargement of the dry dock is expected to finish in late June.
> H2560 -- Xuelong 2 polar icebreaker, docked in March and expected to be undock in late August.
> H2576 -- Pony 13P LPG tanker, docked in May and expected to be undock in October.



It's been nearly four months since the funny rumor came out.
Xuelong 2 launches today, but even later than expected.


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## LKJ86

Dalian:CVN ???

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

Please guys ... just add a summary or a translation in short. It is simply an English-language forum and this is a rule given by the owner, not me since there are many foreigner who cannot read Chinese.

Thanks in advance,
Deino


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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 500723








Maybe, Jiangnan: CV 003 004, Dalian: CVN 005 006

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## XaviorXX

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 500723


HHP25, the marine nuclear power platform, is being built by Bohai Heavy Industry. The main part will be completed during this year. 20K-tons icebreaker is under tender, all details are unknown. Dalian will upgrade its technology after CV17 to have nuclear power production capacity, and then produce nuclear-power aircraft carrier which is under design now.

The blogger believes that the Jiangnan Shipyard has started the construction of the type 003 conventional power carrier and has 2 orders. All will be completed in 2025. Dalian will begin construction of type 005 and 006 nuclear-powered aircraft carrier around 2022.

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## cirr

Photo taken a while back

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## LKJ86

cirr said:


> View attachment 501089
> 
> 
> Photo taken a while back


"严禁转载 转载是畜生"

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## cirr

LKJ86 said:


> "严禁转载 转载是畜生"



Since I am NOT the first to repost the pic on other sites, so...what the heck!

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## Deino

cirr said:


> View attachment 501089
> 
> 
> Photo taken a while back



Any info on when that image was taken? just a few days or weeks ago?


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## jaybird

LKJ86 said:


> "严禁转载 转载是畜生"



That's just silly. I can understand asking for credit and we should give credit and gratitude to the original owner. But if you post photos online don't expect them to stay at one place as you wish. It's like a beautiful lady goes naked in the street and then yell at men "Don't look! If you look you are scumbag!".

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## yusheng

Baidu translation:

"""Han Brothers today's material, people may be afraid to drink tea so used a lot of black language, so please forgive me.

The general idea is that the ship will begin closing up in November this year and will soon be underwater.

The four ship was officially launched in May. President Xi had seen it before receiving Comrade Xiao Jin in Dalian. By August next year, when the 001 and 002 are all gone, we can see the segmentation in the dock.

The first two of the 003 carriers have a very high starting point, which is the true blue star number one. After that, each batch will have some improvements and improvements, so it is more able to maintain an absolute leading position in the world.""""

from:
https://bbs.meyet.net/thread-526734-1-1.html

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## Akasa

yusheng said:


> Baidu translation:
> 
> """Han Brothers today's material, people may be afraid to drink tea so used a lot of black language, so please forgive me.
> 
> The general idea is that the ship will begin closing up in November this year and will soon be underwater.
> 
> The four ship was officially launched in May. President Xi had seen it before receiving Comrade Xiao Jin in Dalian. By August next year, when the 001 and 002 are all gone, we can see the segmentation in the dock.
> 
> The first two of the 003 carriers have a very high starting point, which is the true blue star number one. After that, each batch will have some improvements and improvements, so it is more able to maintain an absolute leading position in the world.""""
> 
> from:
> https://bbs.meyet.net/thread-526734-1-1.html
> View attachment 503336
> 
> 
> View attachment 503337



By the "fourth ship" did they mean DL's flattop?


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## yusheng

Akasa said:


> By the "fourth ship" did they mean DL's flattop?



YES!


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## Deino

Thanks to @LKJ86 from the regular PLAN thread 







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1052230301165019141

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## LKJ86



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## Deino



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## 艹艹艹



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## JSCh

*China launches work on third aircraft carrier, Xinhua says*
2018-11-26 09:17:32 chinadaily.com.cn





China's first domestically designed aircraft carrier set out on its debut sea trial on May 13, 2018. (Photo/Xinhua)​
China has launched work on building its third aircraft carrier, Xinhua News Agency reported on Sunday.

In an article published on its WeChat account, Xinhua said that as the nation’s second, and the first domestically designed, carrier has undergone sea trials, a “new-generation carrier” is being constructed at the shipyard as per schedule.

The article, which was intended to mark the sixth anniversary of the first takeoff and landing by a Chinese fighter on the country’s first carrier CNS Liaoning, does not elaborate on the program of the “new-generation carrier”, which is believed to be the country’s third carrier. But the article is the first official confirmation.

Chinese weapons enthusiasts and foreign observers have long asserted that China has begun to build its third carrier at China State Shipbuilding Corp’s Jiangnan Shipyard Group in Shanghai, speculating that it will be bigger and mightier than the Liaoning and the second carrier, which is yet to be named.

A publicity officer at China State Shipbuilding Corp’s headquarters in Beijing refused to comment on the matter.

Publicity officers of the People’s Liberation Army Navy could not be reached on Monday morning.

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## Han Patriot

XaviorXX said:


> HHP25, the marine nuclear power platform, is being built by Bohai Heavy Industry. The main part will be completed during this year. 20K-tons icebreaker is under tender, all details are unknown. Dalian will upgrade its technology after CV17 to have nuclear power production capacity, and then produce nuclear-power aircraft carrier which is under design now.
> 
> The blogger believes that the Jiangnan Shipyard has started the construction of the type 003 conventional power carrier and has 2 orders. All will be completed in 2025. Dalian will begin construction of type 005 and 006 nuclear-powered aircraft carrier around 2022.


They must go nuclear as soon as possible. I reckon 005,006 to be nuclear. Having 6 CBGs is enough to deter the Americans in Taiwan. China can easily afford 6 CBGs, almost the whole fleet is domestic, coupled with the multiplying effect of paying salaries in RMB, this is sustainable.

The ADIZ is the precursor of an encirclement of Taiwan.

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## BHarwana

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1070558462936055813

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## Deino

BHarwana said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1070558462936055813




Please ... Global Times with its high quality reports. IMO often as reliable as Minnie Chan.

Yes, there will be ... but the question is - and I actually don't think so - that 003 will already be nuclear. As such this reporg brings no news nor surprises.


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## BHarwana

Deino said:


> Please ... Global Times with its high quality reports. IMO often as reliable as Minnie Chan.
> 
> Yes, there will be ... but the question is - and I actually don't think so - that 003 will already be nuclear. As such this reporg brings no news nor surprises.



I posted it because they were giving a time frame of 2025. I understand global times but they are quoting someone else.

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## Mohrenn

Deino said:


> Please ... Global Times with its high quality reports. IMO often as reliable as Minnie Chan.
> 
> Yes, there will be ... but the question is - and I actually don't think so - that 003 will already be nuclear. As such this reporg brings no news nor surprises.



I'm thinking since there were rumors that two new AC are under construction right now, maybe one will be nuclear powered and the other will be conventional


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## SME11B

Mohrenn said:


> I'm thinking since there were rumors that two new AC are under construction right now, maybe one will be nuclear powered and the other will be conventional



I thought you said China was ahead? They don't have a nuke carrier yet?



Han Patriot said:


> They must go nuclear as soon as possible. I reckon 005,006 to be nuclear. Having 6 CBGs is enough to deter the Americans in Taiwan. China can easily afford 6 CBGs, almost the whole fleet is domestic, coupled with the multiplying effect of paying salaries in RMB, this is sustainable.
> 
> The ADIZ is the precursor of an encirclement of Taiwan.



How many decades do you figure that will take?


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## ozranger

Deino said:


> Please ... Global Times with its high quality reports. IMO often as reliable as Minnie Chan.
> 
> Yes, there will be ... but the question is - and I actually don't think so - that 003 will already be nuclear. As such this reporg brings no news nor surprises.





BHarwana said:


> I posted it because they were giving a time frame of 2025. I understand global times but they are quoting someone else.



Various sources suggest that they want to run 6 aircraft carriers, including the current 2, in near future. I think they have been crazy working on that now. I don't believe they need more than that as they mainly use them to hold some key strategic locations, particularly in Pacific and Indian Ocean. They don't care too much about Atlantic Ocean as it is not in their main trade routes.

They are not looking forward to using aircraft carrier fleets to beat aircraft carrier fleets. That will be hypersonic missiles' job.

One of the lesson they've learned from Soviet's anti-carrier capability buildup is that, you can't simply use missiles as deterrence to keep enemy away, even when the deterrence is highly credible, because it is so easy to trigger a quick escalation to total nuclear war if a missile is fired. So while they are leading in hypersonic missile technologies and resilient space sensor network buildup, they are still building the carriers and Type 055 DDGs to make sure they can hold key strategic locations and not to let America play effective brinkmanship.

I think the current kidnap of Huawei CFO will further accelerate all such development. To make sure they can finish the current capability buildup smoothly, as said before, I suggest them spread stealth sensor UAVs and anti-ship ballistic missiles to some developing countries. Airshow Zhuhai 2018 indicates such possibility quite clearly.

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## Zarvan

China's Type 002 Aircraft Carrier

China plans to operate six aircraft carriers, of which two will be nuclear-powered ones that would be launched around 2025, according to Chinese military experts.

The People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy will have five aircraft carriers in the near future, Global Times reported quoting Song Zhongping, a military expert and TV commentator as saying Thursday.

Wang Yunfei, another naval expert and retired PLA Navy officer, said that China needs six aircraft carriers to ensure enough carriers are on active duty while the others are undergoing maintenance.

China will develop two nuclear-powered carriers, Wang said.

With the first carrier, the CNS Liaoning being used for testing, the second carrier designated as ‘Type 001A’ is undergoing sea-trails, the third has entered the construction phase in Shanghai, according to the Chinese Navy’s plan to fast-track aircraft carrier development.

Teaser images of the third carrier were released by the China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC) in the past without giving any description. In one image at the CSIC board meeting earlier this year, the background screen showed three carriers of what appears to be an artists’ illustration.

The proposed third aircraft carrier is said to carry the ‘Type 002’ designation and is expected to have a catapult take-off and arrester-cable landing assist system unlike the ski-jump take off system of the 001A.

The teaser image posted on Xinhua News’ WeChat account in November this year has a carrier in the fore-ground with a flat deck indicating the presence of a catapult launch system.

Such a system is power hungry and will most probably need nuclear-powered propulsion to supply the required power.

China is in a hurry to acquire the aircraft carriers as it rapidly expanded the navy coupled with the acquisition of naval bases aboard to back up its growing influence abroad, especially in the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea (SCS).

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/23...ft_Carriers__Two_of_them_Nuclear#.XAsWeGgzZPY

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## Mohrenn

SME11B said:


> I thought you said China was ahead? They don't have a nuke carrier yet?
> 
> How many decades do you figure that will take?



They're not ahead in every way, but their development is going faster than the US, including in areas where they have already surpassed the US. That's in part because of the terribly corrupt and inefficient US procurement methods, your contractors have corrupted all branches of government and are now using the state as an ATM for taxpayers money while delivering flawed overpriced products. That's why I said your governance system is a complete joke. It's corrupt to the core and seeks short term profits for those who control it even if that means long term strategic suicide.

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## Deino

*Guys ... back to the topic and esp. leave out sstupid politics*.


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## ynhnwn

Deino said:


> *Guys ... back to the topic and esp. leave out sstupid politics*.


Yeah, listen to the adults guys.

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## Deino

Han Patriot said:


> MODS PLEASE CLEAN UP THE THREAD. Someone is derailing it again.




*Yes, when I'm back home ... as such, guys take this as a warning: the next with a political or off topic post will get two weeks vacation*.

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## cirr



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## Deino

cirr said:


> View attachment 525733
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 525735




I only noticed it right now: 

What's that round bow-like part?

If this is the bow section it looks very much like a ramp... but that would mean no. 003 is not a CATOBAR.


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## cirr

Deino said:


> I only noticed it right now:
> 
> What's that round bow-like part?
> 
> If this is the bow section it looks very much like a ramp... but that would mean no. 003 is not a CATOBAR.



Propeller bearing support, one of 4 spotted onsite.

The sketch depicts only part of the "whole story"

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## cirr

On December 4, 20 MW class marine turbogenerator units with complete intellectual property rights, independently developed by the Fourth Seventy-four Research Institutions, passed the appraisal of scientific and technological achievements and became the highest power class marine turbogenerator units in China. Ma Weiming, academician of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, He Lin, academician of the Chinese Academy of Engineering and experts from relevant domestic academies serve as members of the appraisal committee. Gao Xiaomin, director of the four institutes, and Zhao Yueping, assistant director of the four institutes attended the appraisal meeting.

The project has successfully broken through many key technologies such as multi-oil motor high-voltage electro-hydraulic speed regulation, dual-channel backflow integrated bypass and variable speed operation for power generation. It has innovatively applied the design of direct-connected dual-flexible rotor shafting and low-frequency multi-line spectrum active control. The power of the project has reached four times the full power of the existing marine turbogenerator units in China and is equivalent to the power level of the most advanced turbogenerator units in Europe and the United States.

Experts of the appraisal committee agreed that the achievements of the project filled the gap of domestic high-power marine turbogenerator units and reached the international advanced level. As the core equipment of the large-capacity marine power system, the project not only provided the electric power guarantee for the propulsion system, but also laid the foundation for the future full-electric application of ships. It has great military value and social benefits.

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## Deino



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## Mohrenn

Deino said:


> View attachment 526736



Beautiful, almost doesn't look real


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## Deino

Mohrenn said:


> Beautiful, almost doesn't look real



Indeed ... I would love to know how many modules are at this site and how many already altogether.

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## ILC

Wonder if China will be building or if the rumors are correct that China is now building two aircraft carriers simultaneously.
We now know, that Japan is upgrading the Izumos to light aicraft carrier. What answer China is going to make, we may know soon.


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## LKJ86

ILC said:


> Wonder if China will be building or if the rumors are correct that China is now building two aircraft carriers simultaneously.
> We now know, that Japan is upgrading the Izumos to light aicraft carrier. What answer China is going to make, we may know soon.


We don't take Japan seriously.

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## ozranger

Mohrenn said:


> Beautiful, almost doesn't look real



Long exposure. I think the camera's ISO was still too high which makes the picture too bright and have too much noise. Camera man is no experienced enough.


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## Deino

*Stay on topic ... Japan, F-35 and politics are irrelevant.*


----------



## cirr



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## Deino

cirr said:


>



Pardon ... but is this an island structure???


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## LKJ86

？？？

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## Deino

Probably another new - and IMO much larger - module of the Type 003 carrier currently under construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard.

At least it is the same location where the other module was seen before.

I would say YES !

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## cirr

Deino said:


> Probably another new - and IMO much larger - module of the Type 003 carrier currently under construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard.
> 
> At least it is the same location where the other module was seen before.
> 
> I would say YES !
> 
> View attachment 532708



It is official.

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## Deino

cirr said:


> It is official.




... but what orientation has this part and is it only one or even three????


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## cirr

Deino said:


> ... but what orientation has this part and is it only one or even three????



The right half of the rear?

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## nang2

cirr said:


> The right half of the rear?
> 
> View attachment 532777


right? Shouldn't we use port or starboard?

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## LKJ86



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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 532934


_“A new image of the PLAN's naval research and testing facility in Wuhan shows some new modifications to the island, its radar installation and sensor mast.” _

Deino, I think you should have left the same description here too when you looked at the same pic above

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## Deino

samsara said:


> _“A new image of the PLAN's naval research and testing facility in Wuhan shows some new modifications to the island, its radar installation and sensor mast.” _
> 
> Deino, I think you should have left the same description here too when you looked at the same pic above




Agreed ... but I was so much in a hurry to come back in time to my next lessen that I simply forgot it.

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

Seems as if some Chinese forumers have some pretty sharp eyes. They compared the latest images of the 003 carrier with some previously spotted parts at the same site ... and bingo! 
(Via the SDF)

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## Deino

Also interesting observation ... maybe we can expect the Type 003 to get classic propeller shafts and no rotatable pods. Therefore it is unlikely to be an "all-electric" ship.

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## ZeEa5KPul

Deino said:


> Also interesting observation ... maybe we can expect the Type 003 to get classic propeller shafts and no rotatable pods. Therefore it is unlikely to be an "all-electric" ship.


And why can we expect this?

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## Deino

ZeEa5KPul said:


> And why can we expect this?




Indeed, You are correct, or I was wrong ... as I just learned in the meantime via from Rick Joe (aka Blitzo) at the CDF:



> Not quite.
> Having rotatable pods means a ship can only be all-electric because that is the only way pods can be used. However, having "classic" propeller shafts means a ship can be all-electric or have the shafts connected to the main powerplants via reduction gears.
> Zumwalt, Type 45, QE class carrier etc are all all-electric, however all also have propeller shafts as well and do not use pods.

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## samsara

More collaged satellite images uploaded to YouTube by ImageSat International (ISI) on 2019.01.17:

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## cirr

as if more confirmation is needed for the use of EMALS......

.......

针对船型特点，他主持开展了三大课题研究攻关：一是基于可维性、可操性、可达性的机炉舱仿真设计研究；二是按*直线电机动止*工作原理，设置定止的安装精度指标，开展牵引车在线测量技术研究与*TS*装置动态补偿技术研究；三是按照工程环境设计理念，推进舱室集成设计、模块化制装和无公害作业技术研究。

TS is Chinese Pinyin(phonetic alphabet) for “catapult“
........

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/PlJXKI9C4XKvrSPHzZZ2ng?

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## Deino

via "by78"/SDF:
Latest image of the halls at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai where the Type 003 flattop carrier hull modules are currently manufactured.

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## cirr

Deino said:


> via "by78"/SDF:
> Latest image of the halls at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai where the Type 003 flattop carrier hull modules are currently manufactured.
> 
> View attachment 537179



Waiting for drydock to become available in June/July......

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## Deino

cirr said:


> Waiting for drydock to become available in June/July......




But that's actually my biggest concern right now: Where will that drydock be? Is it one of the already established one? ... but how do they transport these modules then? ... or will it be a new one at the same site?


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## lcloo

Deino said:


> But that's actually my biggest concern right now: Where will that drydock be? Is it one of the already established one? ... but how do they transport these modules then? ... or will it be a new one at the same site?


I think we can use British aircraft carrier Queen E as reference since the construction method is similar. In HMAS QE, they used both over-land and over-Water means of transport to dry dock for find assembly of large module blocks. 
JNCX's dry dock #4 is the most likely place to launch the ship.

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## Deino

Cross-post from https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chinese-navy-plan-news-discussions.84213/page-331

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## Deino

via SDF:



Totoro said:


> Interesting image. Green circle is the 003 (called 002 on this forum) and it shows a very large chunk already assembled. With possibly even larger piece, hidden by the movable roof cover. We're talking about 100+ meters of ship hull being assembled, almost to the main deck level.
> 
> Red circle is probably nothing of significance. I am guessing that's the commercial shipbuilding. But it's peculiar to me that the roof covers have appeared there as well, in great numbers. Since there's no reason for commercial shipbuilding to be hidden from view, the only reason one'd go into such expense is to improve the quality of the build. To prevent rain/snow. Or possibly to give better working conditions to the workers, though that too seems like an expense that's not warranted, especially in this day and age where there's an excess of commercial shipbuilding workforce due to low shipping demand.
> 
> Yellow circle is interesting too. There seems to be a warship like bow sticking out. Those halls were used to build early few 052Ds, but then they switched to assembling them out in the open. Now they may be going back to building them inside. Would that suggest that there's not enough space to assemble them outside? Perhaps 055s will be built for some time more?

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## lcloo

Deino said:


> via SDF:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 545042


IMO. they are only fabricating (not assemble) module blocks in the green circle area. It is unwise to assemble (and launch) an aircraft carrier in the green circle area due to shallow pool next to it and lack of proper waterway leading to the river mouth of Yangtze river making launching impossible. Moreover, transport an assembled hull from there need ultra heavy weight road transporter which have to be specifically designed and built just for aircraft carrier 003.

Assembly of hull should be in another area, long rumoured to be dry dock #4 Southwest of the berthing pool where the recently launched destroyers are found. The choice option to launch a large ship safely is using a dry dock. And hope that we will see assembly of hull in next few months as the fabrication of module blocks is now in advance stage.

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## Deino

Another, allegedly closer image showing the 003 carrier.

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## ZeEa5KPul

Deino said:


> Another, allegedly closer image showing the 003 carrier.
> 
> View attachment 545095


Are those three modules being linked together?


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## Deino

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Are those three modules being linked together?



That's exactly what bit seems ... at the SDF another member posted:



Higgle said:


> The most significant development is that the modules have been rotated into the 'correct' orientation, and are in the process of being -- or already have been -- joined together to form a large section. The last time we saw a photo, the modules were still positioned in a row alongside each other.





> Only two possibilities regarding construction method remain:
> 1. The entire hull will be constructed where it currently stands, which is unlikely.
> 2. The section will be transported to a dry dock when a dry dock is available.
> 
> Large module assembly has been predicted for a long time now, so I'm much more inclined to believe the latter.
> 
> The question is, where are the other sections?



*Before:*






*Now:




*

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## samsara

Next few months will tell (within Q2, or Q3 at the latest), I think @lcloo pointed to the right direction. And the general consensus is the huge block won't be built at the marked "green circle" area.

And by the way, will DSIC take a carrier production facility renovation prior to doing its next big carrier? Or just wait it finishing the trial and handing over the carrier 002 to PLAN?

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## Deino

samsara said:


> Next few months will tell (within Q2, or Q3 at the latest), I think @lcloo pointed to the right direction. And the general consensus is the huge block won't be built at the marked "green circle" area.
> 
> And by the way, will DSIC take a carrier production facility renovation prior to doing its next big carrier? Or just wait it finishing the trial and handing over the carrier 002 to PLAN?



Indeed ... however the question is: where will it be completed and how will they move this now much larger than the QE2 segments to this final area?


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## lcloo

It seen like there is what looks like a new road being built that should be completed in a few months. This road is wide and link the fabrication site to the river side. My guess is that if it is indeed a road, then it is possible that module blocks could be transported by land transporter to the river bank and transfer to a barge, and then send to the dry dock. (refer to the yellow line I added to the photo)

There is another road to the West but there is a bridge, and the big question is whether that bridge can bear the weight of those large module block.

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## yusheng



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## ozranger

yusheng said:


> View attachment 546191



2 islands, nuclear powered?

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## Akasa

yusheng said:


> View attachment 546191



Shipborne aircraft will most likely be a FC-31 derivative rather than that of the J-20.


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## ozranger

I think it might only have a single island, thin and tall. Very interesting design as the island is located at the front.

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## lcloo

yusheng said:


> View attachment 546191


This design needs refinement, why two towers? USN Ford has only one. And I hope those 2 round holes like in the 2 towers are not smoke funnel because nuclear powers ships do not need them.

The two lifts on the right side are too close to each other, not a good idea in damage control view, because an enemy missile can damage both in one hit by big blast or fire. 

Anyway, it is still too early for a final design.

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## yusheng

it says, for 003, f31 is gone, f20 may be possible, but a more feasible outcome is a whole new G4 for 003, because there are more and more f35 nearby.
so one day, PLAN generals went to AVIC CAC and asked for a new G4 for 003.....
so, PLAN G4 is coming.
look at the picture, are you sure they are J20 derivatives?

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## Deino

Via OedoSoldier


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1106279858294931458

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## Beidou2020

yusheng said:


> View attachment 546317
> 
> 
> 
> it says, for 003, f31 is gone, f20 may be possible, but a more feasible outcome is a whole new G4 for 003, because there are more and more f35 nearby.
> so one day, PLAN generals went to AVIC CAC and asked for a new G4 for 003.....
> so, PLAN G4 is coming.
> look at the picture, are you sure they are J20 derivatives?



What is G4?


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## yusheng

Beidou2020 said:


> What is G4?


in China, jets, such as j31,j20, are G4, the new jet for 003 is G4 too, but maybe a new one different from j31 and j20.

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## Akasa

yusheng said:


> View attachment 546317
> 
> 
> 
> it says, for 003, f31 is gone, f20 may be possible, but a more feasible outcome is a whole new G4 for 003, because there are more and more f35 nearby.
> so one day, PLAN generals went to AVIC CAC and asked for a new G4 for 003.....
> so, PLAN G4 is coming.
> look at the picture, are you sure they are J20 derivatives?



Who is the original source?


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## yusheng

Akasa said:


> Who is the original source?



NO COMMENTS FOR ORIGINAL SOURCE

FOR YOUR REFRENCE:

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_516e180c0102zkx8.html

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## Akasa

yusheng said:


> NO COMMENTS FOR ORIGINAL SOURCE
> 
> FOR YOUR REFRENCE:
> 
> http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_516e180c0102zkx8.html



What makes this author so credible?


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## samsara

Akasa said:


> What makes this author so credible?


Stop policing this COLUMN Akasa or SinoSoldier. Your behaviour is irritating.

Just believe WHATEVER as you wish.
No one forces you to believe anything.

Please do not interrogate like the police here. No one will entertain such behaviour !!

You are just trolling the actual posters here!

*And to all Chinese posters at PDF, please do not entertain such trolling attitude. Just ignore!!!*

At best this persona will just collect the feedback here then repost it at SDF to brag .. but without giving any due credits to the sources! There you only see SinoSoldier no Akasa there, but here at PDF we have the both, only the SinoSoldier is less active.

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## ozranger

samsara said:


> Stop policing this COLUMN Akasa or SinoSoldier. Your behaviour is irritating.
> 
> Just believe WHATEVER as you wish.
> No one forces you to believe anything.
> 
> Please do not interrogate like the police here. No one will entertain such behaviour !!
> 
> You are just trolling the actual posters here!
> 
> *And to all Chinese posters at PDF, please do not entertain such trolling attitude. Just ignore!!!*
> 
> At best this persona will just collect the feedback here then repost it at SDF to brag .. but without giving any due credits to the sources! There you only see SinoSoldier no Akasa there, but here at PDF we have the both, only the SinoSoldier is less active.



The drawing itself might have shown a very creative design of deck layout of a future Chinese aircraft carrier, probably a nuclear powered one, which is really interesting and fun. So such posting should be highly encouraged. I personally don't like to have a debate again and again over future Chinese carrier based fighter jet here as it has been proved to be quite annoying, and sometimes very irritating to some particular forum members. I guess most others using this forum should have the same feeling.

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## Deino

@samsara 

To admit I do not entirely understand your harsh words against Akasa.

IMO this question on why or how reliable this site is , is not trolling. Me to, I'm a bit surprised by both the new twin-island layout as well as his claims, that the FC-31 is dead, the J-20 unlikely and a new design

Also, the drawing itself does not look very much reliable at first sight, the J-20s clearly psed into it ... as such - at least since this poster is not one of the big shrimps I remember - the question is fully legit.

Deino

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## Deino

Another recent image and indeed, the modules are not yet mated.

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## Deino



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## Deino

Following the latest images, it seems as if indeed the joining of the modules for the Type 003 carrier has begun.

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## samsara

Beidou2020 said:


> What is G4?


"G4", it's usually written out as the 4th generation, otherwise readers may confuse it with the gravitational (G) force. 

Mind you that the Chinese nomenclature of generation differs from the international one. For example, the J-20 is called as the 4th generation aircraft in the Chinese publication (esp. in Chinese language) yet internationally it is known as the 5th generation. Hope it clarifies.

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## Deino

Deino said:


> Following the latest images, it seems as if indeed the joining of the modules for the Type 003 carrier has begun.
> 
> View attachment 548994




Are there any dates known between both images?


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## samsara

Deino said:


> Following the latest images, it seems as if indeed the joining of the modules for the Type 003 carrier has begun.
> 
> View attachment 548994


And don't think that the module joining is being done at the earlier mentioned location (whereas the earlier modules were spotted). Otherwise the resulted joint part will be too big to move around later.

So, is the joining done at some new location? Perhaps at dry dock #4 !? All questions, answer will be tough at this point of time.

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## lcloo

There are discussions in CJDBY that the proposed new "launching and fitting out basin/pool" contract is to be completed by October this year. And also a mobile dock or barge will be completed by the same time.

If the above are true, then it is possible that ac 003's planned launching schedule is after October this year. I have a photo dated 2018-8-19 showing a module of 003, which indicate that JNCX started fabricating that module in 2nd quarter of 2018. 

Since October 2019 is about 1 1/2 years after, it is quite reasonable that ac 003 will be launched around then. It will be interesting to see if they will use a dry dock or using the mobile barge method that launched type 055 DDG.

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> There are discussions in CJDBY that the proposed new "launching and fitting out basin/pool" contract is to be completed by October this year. And also a mobile dock or barge will be completed by the same time.
> 
> If the above are true, then it is possible that ac 003's planned launching schedule is after October this year. I have a photo dated 2018-8-19 showing a module of 003, which indicate that JNCX started fabricating that module in 2nd quarter of 2018.
> 
> Since October 2019 is about 1 1/2 years after, it is quite reasonable that ac 003 will be launched around then. It will be interesting to see if they will use a dry dock or using the mobile barge method that launched type 055 DDG.




Latest sat image via SDF:

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## lcloo

Statement dated 2019 March 27th from JN shipyard, regarding deepening of the fitting out pool for the "Special" ship. Work is in progress since March 27th and is scheduled to be completed on June 20th. Dredging will be done up North to the existing old flood gate.

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## Deino

And with the Type 002 carrier close to hand-over, there seems to be something different in preparation at Dalian shipyard. Time to guess? 









Reminds a bit to this one ... start of construction of the 002 carrier in March 2015. 
But surely could be any other large vessel too.

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## lcloo

Deino said:


> And with the Type 002 carrier close to hand-over, there seems to be something different in preparation at Dalian shipyard. Time to guess?
> 
> View attachment 552280
> View attachment 552281
> 
> 
> Reminds a bit to this one ... start of construction of the 002 carrier in March 2015.
> But surely could be any other large vessel too.
> 
> View attachment 552286


Just a guess, it is possible that CV002 will need to be sent to dry dock before handing over to navy. The underwater part of the hull need to be cleaned and scrap off any barnacles build up since the ship has been in the water after launched in 2017 April, and a fresh coat of red paint to be applied.

Extreme case of nearly a decade of Barnacles growth on ex Varyag (CV16 Liaoning)








After scrapping of the barnacles of ex-Varyag (CV16 Liaoning)

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## samsara

A nice integration…

_From our Int'l Mod, Rupprecht Deino, on 2019.04.09, tweet thread with credit to our frequent valuable contributor, @lcloo, as well:_

003 carrier: "Statement dated 2019 March 27. from JN shipyard, regarding deepening of the fitting out pool for the "Special" ship. Work is in progress since March 27th and is scheduled to be completed on June 20th. Dredging will be done up North to the existing old flood gate"















__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115633780897787904

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## LKJ86



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## lmjiao

Type 003/004? start construction in Dalian.





Source: https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2546597&mobile=1

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## Deino

lmjiao said:


> Type 003/004? start construction in Dalian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2546597&mobile=1




Pardon, but I cannot see a certain part that could fit to a 003/004 carrier? .... even if I don't know what these strange long structures are, I don't remember similar ones already to be seen.

Or dis I miss a certain part?


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## samsara

lmjiao said:


> Type 003/004? start construction in Dalian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2546597&mobile=1



Thanks for bringing it into attention here. So many rumors there, I dare not to quote any, will take a back seat to watch until August as some hinted… I don't expect Dalian to start so fast indeed… fingers crossed 

It'll get the Empire in even higher steroid of
anxiety if true, inciting even more commotion stirring up the Planet Earth…

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## lmjiao

Deino said:


> Pardon, but I cannot see a certain part that could fit to a 003/004 carrier? .... even if I don't know what these strange long structures are, I don't remember similar ones already to be seen.
> 
> Or dis I miss a certain part?


We have seen similar structures in Dalian when the Type 001A starts several years ago. You should be able to recall some similar photos.

In that time, there is also serious discussions for other posibilities, but we now know the answer. Same concerns can be devoted here, but maybe not necessary.



samsara said:


> Thanks for bringing it into attention here. So many rumors there, I dare not to quote any, will take a back seat to watch until August as some hinted… I don't expect Dalian to start so fast indeed… fingers crossed
> 
> It'll get the Empire in even higher steroid of
> anxiety if true, inciting even more commotion stirring up the Planet Earth…


Yes, indeed. Let's see the new world.

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## Deino

lmjiao said:


> We have seen similar structures in Dalian when the Type 001A starts several years ago. You should be able to recall some similar photos.
> 
> In that time, there is also serious discussions for other posibilities, but we now know the answer. Same concerns can be devoted here, but maybe not necessary.
> 
> 
> Yes, indeed. Let's see the new world.



Something like this?

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## lmjiao

Deino said:


> Something like this?
> 
> View attachment 556594
> View attachment 556595
> View attachment 556598
> View attachment 556599


No, much more similiar. If I have time I may try to find and upload tomorrow.

Or, can any other member help?

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## lcloo

A dredging ship had been working hard from April to May, deepening the river bed next to exit point of the new harbour basin for aircraft carrier 003.

check out post #1038.

Track of dredger from 2019 April 4th to May 01st.

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## Deino

Another update at Shanghai's Jiangnan Shipyard showing the Type 003 carrier under construction.

Is it me or is it indeed the first time we see something that looks like a bow of a carrier on the left?

image via @RickJoe_PLART / Blitzo / SDF

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## lcloo

Yes, I believe that is the bow section on the left. The WIP at this stage is quite close to that of 002 around June 2015, which is 1 year and 10 months from 002's launch date in April 2017.

We may see 003 launch in early 2021, and entering service in 2023. However, if the new building method can save substantial time, the ship might be able for launch in end of 2020.

Aircraft carrier 002's progress in 2015.

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 558685




Hmmm??? What part is this?

Eventually the first part of - not sure how you call it in English - the overhanging outer part below the flightdeck?

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## Globenim

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 558685


I find the hint at a shaft on the enlarged flight deck bit interesting


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## LKJ86



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## HAIDER

*Agence France-Presse*





A satellite image shows what appears to be the construction of a third Chinese aircraft carrier at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai, China on April 17, 2019. Image taken on April 17, 2019. _CSIS/ChinaPower/Maxar Technologies 2019/Handout via Reuters_
WASHINGTON, United States - Recent satellite photographs indicate China's construction of its third aircraft carrier is well underway, a Washington think tank reported Tuesday.

ChinaPower, a unit of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, published photos of a large vessel under construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai.

The bow and hull are already under assembly, the pictures indicated, and are likely to be the beginnings of the 80-85,000 ton type 002 aircraft carrier the Chinese navy has been known to be planning.

"Visible through the clouds and mist is what looks to be a bow and main hull section of a large vessel," ChinaPower said.

"While details regarding the Type 002 are limited, what is observable at Jiangnan is consistent with what is expected for the People's Liberation Army Navy's third aircraft carrier."

China's first carrier, the 3 decade-old, 66,000 ton Liaoning, was acquired from Russia.

The second, a home-built carrier designated Type 001A and based on the Liaoning's design began sea trials, 1 year ago.

ChinaPower said that, based on the photos, the Jiangnan shipyard appears to be building a new tower crane, a floodable ship basin, and a launching channel to accommodate the huge new carrier.

In a report published online, ChinaPower said the carrier is expected to be completed in 2022.

In January a senior Chinese naval expert said the country needs "at least" 3 carriers to defend its coastline and global interests.
https://news.abs-cbn.com/overseas/05/08/19/china-building-3rd-aircraft-carrier-think-tank

"Our country has an 18,000-kilometer (11,000-mile) long coastline. Also, our economy is outward looking and our interests abroad are growing," said Commodore Zhang Junshe, a member of the Naval Research Institute.


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## SBUS-CXK

fake news. two carriers are enough for China.

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## Ultima Thule

Two said:


> fake news. two carriers are enough for China.


future plan of China is to build 6 carriers @Two


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## SBUS-CXK

pakistanipower said:


> future plan of China is to build 6 carriers @Two


This is just some Chinese netizen guess. The Chinese government has not confirmed it.

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## Ultima Thule

Two said:


> This is just some Chinese netizen guess. The Chinese government has not confirmed it.


its possibility, how do you know that 2 carriers will enough if its not confirmed @Two


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## SBUS-CXK

pakistanipower said:


> its possibility, how do you know that 2 carriers will enough if its not confirmed @Two


If one Chinese netizen says: China should have 12 aircraft carriers. then he gave enough reasons, then some people agreed with him. then they started forwarding it. (you know how developed China's network industry is).

That's the latest news - China plans to build 12 carriers.


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## Ultima Thule

Two said:


> If one Chinese netizen says: China should have 12 aircraft carriers. then he gave enough reasons, then some people agreed with him. then they started forwarding it. (you know how developed China's network industry is).
> 
> That's the latest news - China plans to build 12 carriers.


So you're just assuming that 2 carriers is enough for China, you're not govt official that said 2 carriers will be enough for China, its a possibility that China will built 6 carriers in near future @Two


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## SBUS-CXK

pakistanipower said:


> So you're just assuming that 2 carriers is enough for China, you're not govt official that said 2 carriers will be enough for China, its a possibility that China will built 6 carriers in near future @Two


China is implementing a defense plan. It's not an offensive plan. China only needs to ensure its national security. two carriers are enough.

I am more convinced that China is building LHD (*Landing Helicopter Dock*)

type 075

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## Ultima Thule

Two said:


> China is implementing a defense plan. It's not an offensive plan. China only needs to ensure its national security. two carriers are enough.
> 
> I am more convinced that China is building LHD (*Landing Helicopter Dock*)
> 
> type 075


But China doesn't have the bases around the world like USA have, so its need more carrier to defend its interests around the world, you're just falsely assuming nothing else @Two



Two said:


> China is implementing a defense plan. It's not an offensive plan. China only needs to ensure its national security. two carriers are enough.
> 
> I am more convinced that China is building LHD (*Landing Helicopter Dock*)
> 
> type 075


if you have a defensive strategies why you building Type-55 , type-52D, and Type-75 etc etc LHD @Two


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## SBUS-CXK

pakistanipower said:


> But China doesn't have the bases around the world like USA have, so its need more carrier to defend its interests around the world, you're just falsely assuming nothing else @Two
> 
> 
> if you have a defensive strategies why you building Type-55 , type-52D, and Type-75 etc etc LHD @Two


Of course, I hope China has more carriers.

But in many cases it is a burden. The US needs a huge carrier battle group to maintain global hegemony. but China is to develop the economy. on how to protect overseas interests. The 30 ship type 054A is enough.

I hope it is type 075.



pakistanipower said:


> if you have a defensive strategies why you building Type-55 , type-52D, and Type-75 etc etc LHD @Two


Tell me. Why does Brazil keep an aircraft carrier? Which country does it want to attack?


----------



## Ultima Thule

Two said:


> Of course, I hope China has more carriers.
> 
> But in many cases it is a burden. The US needs a huge carrier battle group to maintain global hegemony. but China is to develop the economy. on how to protect overseas interests. The 30 ship type 054A is enough.
> 
> I hope it is type 075.


So why you're developed and developing Type-52 series of destroyers, Type-55 cruiser , Type-1 and Type-1A carrier, and Type-54A is a frigates which lack of fire power like long range air defense SAMs anti submarine warfare, you're facing threats from South Korean/Japanese Navies/USN which have destroyers which have sophisticated sensors, long range SAMs, carriers etc, if you have defensive strategy what the hell type-75 can do, and type-54A is not a jack of all trades @Two



Two said:


> Tell me. Why does Brazil keep an aircraft carrier? Which country does it want to attack?


And then tell me why you assume 2 carriers is enough for China then @Two


----------



## SBUS-CXK

pakistanipower said:


> So why you're developed and developing Type-52 series of destroyers, Type-55 cruiser , Type-1 and Type-1A carrier, and Type-54A is a frigates which lack of fire power like long range air defense SAMs anti submarine warfare, you're facing threats from South Korean/Japanese Navies/USN which have destroyers which have sophisticated sensors, long range SAMs, carriers etc, if you have defensive strategy what the hell type-75 can do, and type-54A is not a jack of all trades @Two


Very simple - deterrence.

Why does Brazil have an aircraft carrier?

Why does Thailand have an aircraft carrier?

Why does Turkey need an aircraft carrier?


----------



## Ultima Thule

Two said:


> Very simple - deterrence.
> 
> Why does Brazil have an aircraft carrier?
> 
> Why does Thailand have an aircraft carrier?
> 
> Why does Turkey need an aircraft carrier?


 then why you think type-54A is enough for global interest for china, type-54a has a limitation in fire power lacks long range sams etc etc, that's why plaan developing type-52 series of destroyers/ type-55 @Two


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## rcrmj

003 is under construction, all the modules of its hull were already built in factory, and the assembly is roughly 70% completed, the contract for 004 was signed few times ago`````005 and 006's blue prints are almost done```!
075 is also under construction its designed tonnage is around 25000 - 30000````075A is going to be bigger (to accomodate newly developed kit`)

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## maverick1977

Two said:


> China is implementing a defense plan. It's not an offensive plan. China only needs to ensure its national security. two carriers are enough.
> 
> I am more convinced that China is building LHD (*Landing Helicopter Dock*)
> 
> type 075




This is what pAkistan marines need... four of them ... one unit or marines and 1 sq or attack helis and the other one for naval support ... four will make one brigade marine deployment a force to reckon with ... 

Now back to the topic 

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/05/07/as...ellite-intl/index.html?r=https://www.cnn.com/



rcrmj said:


> 003 is under construction, all the modules of its hull were already built in factory, and the assembly is roughly 70% completed, the contract for 004 was signed few times ago`````005 and 006's blue prints are almost done```!
> 075 is also under construction its designed tonnage is around 25000 - 30000````075A is going to be bigger (to accomodate newly developed kit`)




Dang, a force to reckon with ... how many more type 94s nuke subs are being added ?


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## lcloo

Waiting for mod to merge this thread with existing "Type 00X/003 (Formerly type 002) aircraft carrier news..." thread.

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## rcrmj

maverick1977 said:


> This is what pAkistan marines need... four of them ... one unit or marines and 1 sq or attack helis and the other one for naval support ... four will make one brigade marine deployment a force to reckon with ...
> 
> Now back to the topic
> 
> https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/05/07/asia/china-aircraft-carrier-satellite-intl/index.html?r=https://www.cnn.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dang, a force to reckon with ... how many more type 94s nuke subs are being added ?


my circle does not have much info on subs````


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## ILC

rcrmj said:


> 003 is under construction, all the modules of its hull were already built in factory, and the assembly is roughly 70% completed, the contract for 004 was signed few times ago`````005 and 006's blue prints are almost done```!
> 075 is also under construction its designed tonnage is around 25000 - 30000````075A is going to be bigger (to accomodate newly developed kit`)


Do you know if 004 will be "twin' to 003 or different?


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## mike2000 is back

rcrmj said:


> 075 is also under construction its designed tonnage is around 25000 - 30000````075A is going to be bigger (to accomodate newly developed kit`)


Is that another carrier or?


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## samsara

lcloo said:


> Waiting for mod to merge this thread with existing "Type 00X/003 (Formerly type 002) aircraft carrier news..." thread.


Nope, there are too many "irrelevant exchanges on the #carrier" ... Only if those distractions to be removed.


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## chengdusudise

pakistanipower said:


> its possibility, how do you know that 2 carriers will enough if its not confirmed @Two


becuase his name is “two”

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## Ultima Thule

chengdusudise said:


> becuase his name is “two”


A good one bro @chengdusudise

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## ChineseTiger1986

The water beam is no less than 41 meters which means the possibility of the 100K tonnes CVN has been increased.

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## samsara

About the *beam length speculation*, Bltizo from SDF (or Rick Joe !?) had this to say:

_I think the exact resolution is not clear enough for us to confidently claim the exact meter length of the beam. For you this is further compounded by having to rely on GE to get the length of another variable to try to compare it with the CSIS [ChinaPower] photo to try and calibrate it to the same visual height. All of that adds error which could very easily produce a difference of a few meters.

IMO the exact beam of it is not too important; whether it's 39m, 40m or 41m or whatever.

The use of this image and their measured distance is useful in confirming that the beam of the vessel is definitely not 32m or LHD sized, but is rather carrier sized as everyone else has been saying.

Personally I've been convinced this was a carrier since we got pictures of it in work last year, but this is for the people who are still skeptical for whatever reason._



LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 558842


The satellite image from CSIS ChinaPower (a U.S. think tank) referred by many.

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## rcrmj

ILC said:


> Do you know if 004 will be "twin' to 003 or different?


different, 004 is more closer to PLAN's ideal carrier than 003````



mike2000 is back said:


> Is that another carrier or?


no, 075 is an anmphibious assualt ship`````



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The water beam is no less than 41 meters which means the possibility of the 100K tonnes CVN has been increased.


nope, size is slightly smaller than to USAN's Kitty Hawk class ACs

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## ChineseTiger1986

rcrmj said:


> nope, size is slightly smaller than to USAN's Kitty Hawk class ACs



I don't trust fzgfzy's words at all, this guy has too much ego and is now living in denial.

He had made so many mispredictions, yet you guys still take his words as gold which is beyond comprehension.

And no way in hell that the Type 003 with a beam of 41 meters is smaller than the Kitty Hawk class. And China will never build a carrier with distorted proportion.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I don't trust fzgfzy's words at all, this guy has too much ego and is now living in denial.
> 
> He had made so many mispredictions, yet you guys still take his words as gold which is beyond comprehension.
> 
> And no way in hell that the Type 003 with a beam of 41 meters is smaller than the Kitty Hawk class. And China will never build a carrier with distorted proportion.



I must admit, my feeling tells me, that @rcrmj is not only relying to fzgfzy's words at all .... also, I'm not entirely sure with a beam of 41 m but surely in the size of 40. 

And where did the claim come up on "China would build a carrier with distorted proportions"???

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> I must admit, my feeling tells me, that @rcrmj is not only relying to fzgfzy's words at all .... also, I'm not entirely sure with a beam of 41 m but surely in the size of 40.
> 
> And where did the claim come up on "China would build a carrier with distorted proportions"???



In fact, the 41 meters might not even be the widest part of the hull. But for now, I just assume it is 41 meters which is equivalent to the Nimitz/Ford class supercarriers.

When its beam is 41 meters, which means its size should be comparable the US supercarrier because China won't build a fat carrier with shorter proportion. You see all pattern of China's ship design, they all have larger length/width ratio, which is from the Type 052C to the Type 055.

POP3 and fzgfzy are the only big shrimps who claimed that the Type 003 is less than 80,000 tons which is very unlikely at this point. And they had all lost the bet in the EMALS vs steam catapult prediction.

And fzgfzy just keeps brewing up with more erroneous predictions, his credibility looks very fishy at this point in the eyes of many impartial observers.

Yep, rcrmj and many other cd members have tremendous loyalty and faith toward fzgfzy, and they still take his words like the official statements.

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## rcrmj

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I don't trust fzgfzy's words at all, this guy has too much ego and is now living in denial.
> 
> He had made so many mispredictions, yet you guys still take his words as gold which is beyond comprehension.
> 
> And no way in hell that the Type 003 with a beam of 41 meters is smaller than the Kitty Hawk class. And China will never build a carrier with distorted proportion.


I know fzgfzy, and I know what he is capable of, but he does not work in the circle maybe have few connections that are from the circle````anyway, someone had seen the blueprint said it is slightly smaller than Kitty Hawk`````anyway modules had been built```````so



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yep, *rcrmj and many other cd members have tremendous loyalty and faith toward fzgfzy, and they still take his words like the official statements*.



where did you get this part??

I only taking infos from *the circle* with serious attitude, anything on the virtual world are just "amature" thoughts````

almost all the men have a notion that dictates our judgment, that is "bigger is better"```like bigger boobies, bigger buttocks```

but this does not usually work on weapon system or platforms`````their size and shape was determined by user's needs, time of urgency and most importantly, current technological availability! 

is the new AWACS ready? is the new 5th gen ready? is the new nuclear-powered power system ready? can we wait more time for 003? etc``````````

the top had planned at least 6 carriers (including the first liaoning)````the time is very *packed*, and those people (designers and R$D starfs) are working at least 10 hours aday 7 days a week for these projects!````and those factories have 2-3 shifts to make sure 24 hours none-stop production`!!!!

people went to hospital for that matter I will let you know this much``````the change from steam catapult to electronic catapult on 03 had already caused much troubles to all the team members, any more of this kind of sudden change would really jeopadize the project and morale!

thats why for all the weapon system development, there is a phrase called “技术冻结”```when this happens, nothing can be changed unless the previous design as *an "utter joke"`*`!

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## ChineseTiger1986

Everybody has its own judgement, you have your faith to believe these big shrimps, but it doesn't necessarily mean the truth.

As usual, fzgfzy often tried to make all sort of excuses to cover up his failed predictions.

https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2487151-1-1.html

https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2549154-1-1.html

You can see his inconsistency, and I am pretty sure he will soon change his tone about the Type 003 as the ship is close to the launch.

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## samsara

I believe you two should end such exchanges in this International English forum... enough, more simply don't fit here!

Be patient, Time will divulge its essential truth! And may the "best" prevail.

Peace  and have nice weekend all!

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Everybody has its own judgement, you have your faith to believe these big shrimps, but it doesn't necessarily mean the truth.
> 
> As usual, fzgfzy often tried to make all sort of excuses to cover up his failed predictions.
> 
> https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2487151-1-1.html
> 
> https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2549154-1-1.html
> 
> You can see his inconsistency, and I am pretty sure he will soon change his tone about the Type 003 as the ship is close to the launch.


Let's just wait for more photos to come


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## Akasa

Neither the "big shrimps" nor other Chinese sources are accurate.

The most reliable sources are:
1. David Axe
2. National Interest
3. Gordon Chang
4. RAJ47

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> Let's just wait for more photos to come



Everything will be crystal clear when the entire silhouette of the island structure emerges.


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## samsara

Akasa said:


> Neither the "big shrimps" nor other Chinese sources are accurate.
> 
> The most reliable sources are:
> 1. David Axe
> 2. National Interest
> 3. Gordon Chang
> 4. RAJ47


*SinoSoldier alias Akasa*, what kind of fish do you intend to catch here from trying to spice the waters? 

Seeing the former ID is quite active at SDF but not here, and nowadays only seeing the latter persona is engaging here at PDF.

*SinoSoldier / Akasa, allow me to ask you a frank question here: *_How do you feel for all the achievements of the Chinese military esp. during the last few years under the leadership of the Communist Party of China (CPC) [in particular under the firm and effective leadership of Xi Jinping], a government and ruling party that you hate so much for whatever reasons?_

It has been a couple of years since I last spotted [in 2016/2017] your heartedly-felt hatred post on the CPC… admittedly you have been good in covering it ever since. I hope you won't hesitate to tell us here about your thought.

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## rcrmj

Akasa said:


> Neither the "big shrimps" nor other Chinese sources are accurate.
> 
> The most reliable sources are:
> 1. David Axe
> 2. National Interest
> 3. Gordon Chang
> 4. RAJ47


```they dont have any access to the real deal`````more like an upgraded version of news outlet````Gordon Chang? seriously? 



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Everybody has its own judgement, you have your faith to believe these big shrimps, but it doesn't necessarily mean the truth.
> 
> As usual, fzgfzy often tried to make all sort of excuses to cover up his failed predictions.
> 
> https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2487151-1-1.html
> 
> https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2549154-1-1.html
> 
> You can see his inconsistency, and I am pretty sure he will soon change his tone about the Type 003 as the ship is close to the launch.


do you actually ready these threads? ```````what excuess he made? 
you know what you know, if not, then all the "points", "judgments" or "excues" are nothing but wishful thinking.
whether its from fzgfzy or anyone else````````once you are really in the circle, then you know there is no shrimp, but who has better access to the real deal````````as far as I know fzgfzy has some ways to get into the ring, *but still not up to my standard*`````

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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> ```they dont have any access to the real deal`````more like an upgraded version of news outlet````Gordon Chang? seriously?
> 
> 
> do you actually ready these threads? ```````what excuess he made?
> you know what you know, if not, then all the "points", "judgments" or "excues" are nothing but wishful thinking.
> whether its from fzgfzy or anyone else````````once you are really in the circle, then you know there is no shrimp, but who has better access to the real deal````````as far as I know fzgfzy has some ways to get into the ring, *but still not up to my standard*`````



The joke flew right past your head like the F-22 over a 346B radar.

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## clibra

man, the 003's building is already ongoing, are you a SFA member?


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## LKJ86




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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 559639




Am I wrong or are there certain larger parts and modules missing??


----------



## Han Patriot

Akasa said:


> Neither the "big shrimps" nor other Chinese sources are accurate.
> 
> The most reliable sources are:
> 1. David Axe
> 2. National Interest
> 3. Gordon Chang
> 4. RAJ47


Gordie? Seriously? I was in high school when he predicted China will implode in 2001


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## lcloo

Deino said:


> Am I wrong or are there certain larger parts and modules missing??


Look at top right corner of the photo, where the bridge over the drainage channel is. Why do you think the water has a dark and white colour? I doubt it is the reflection of overhead white cloud, more like ice to me. That tells you which time of the year the photo was taken.

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## Brainsucker

Han Patriot said:


> Gordie? Seriously? I was in high school when he predicted China will implode in 2001



He's sarcasm.


----------



## Deino

lcloo said:


> Look at top right corner of the photo, where the bridge over the drainage channel is. Why do you think the water has a dark and white colour? I doubt it is the reflection of overhead white cloud, more like ice to me. That tells you which time of the year the photo was taken.




From the latest info I have it was taken on 12. May, so it seems be simply dryed out...


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## lcloo

Deino said:


> From the latest info I have it was taken on 12. May, so it seems be simply dryed out...


Do you sincerely in your heart believe it? AS an experience China Watcher, we know that we have to filter false information, and not relying on simply seeing a photo or from someone considered as old hand. I even have a photo from Henry K's tweeter with narrative stating totally wrong date on a photo on JNCX shipyard.

And only very recently, I think I fell for the photo of type 075 with very suspicious fake date. And 星海 corrected to me the fake date of another type 075 photo some 6 to 9 months ago.

Narrative on this photo said 2019 May 6th, someone in SDF pointed out this date is wrong, actual date is somewhere around March this year. Looking at the stage of completion on the superstructure and the type 071 LPD's bridge, I tend to agree with him. Verdict: Very strong case of fake date.






Let see the photo in question again. Space Observation ship Yuan Wang 5 parked next to type 055 #101 at the river bank. Inside the harbour basin, on the far left is another type 055, number 2 ship ( I have measured the length, it is not a 052DG).

Question points
(1) Colour of white and black water in drainage channel, harbour basin and the Yangtze river. What caused such a phenomenon?
(2) Timing of 2nd 055 parking in the harbour basin (it is now at the river bank where Yuan Wang 5 was parked).
(3) Yuan Wang 5 had already left JNCX months ago, did it came back again?




3rd photo showing the 3 ships at the river bank (Yuan Wang5, 055 and 052D). The date is 2018 October 06th. The 052D is pointed in opposite direction but that is a minor distraction as they always change their position upon returning from sea trial.

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## lcloo

星海军事 said:


> Someone in SDF -- I suppose it's me
> 
> 
> 
> That's a trick of the wind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe the recent high-res sat images are from planet.com. There's a 14-day free trial.



Thank you very much. You are right on the whitish water surface. I also found something very interesting. 好戏在后头。多谢了。

I presume paid subscriber to Planet.com get high definition photo. I am in now, photos are low resolution, and latest photo are up to April 2019 only.

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## cirr



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## cirr



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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1135024401492074496


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## ChineseTiger1986



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## MReynolds

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> View attachment 563201



Who made this drawing? I don't see an exhaust port. Will carrier #3 be nuclear powered?


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## ChineseTiger1986

MReynolds said:


> Who made this drawing? I don't see an exhaust port. Will carrier #3 be nuclear powered?



Nuff said, we shall see in the truth in just few months away.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Nuff said, we shall see in the truth in just few months away.
> 
> 
> View attachment 563212




Actually I'm not sure, but isn't this an old image....?

After a quick search at Google, this image was first posted on 2. February, then on 8. March and later somewhere in April:

https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZiuPcRo8NzA0T5kxkXkY7foTEQzgswmi3yRk4fRzgRPRtu2mT9OWcLGR33saUFSV5F-YtHvw4YVNrHDRSDnd4vQfGKPJ-QUq4GvOJ4wJIGDl9nm5zkpPzVMulFxXrP0exLSxSmxMyMcWWeRKFif7BWO3YRJJIoVpLheKcHdDscqnjCRWdmTTNC5u9dUmjRD-7ZoOlDfEszshs79b3aQYYj4yTi08Awlpe6tTHedH-1UwmhB1mYn5tzVIripW_1CC43btN5hIMlGL7WrkeNALsUMfGTb9g9a5Vc4FzGON68q7-vKK4EyjxzdXZKWDV6Lphx5qqbJ2XsduBhf9jIxA2cIPalSEzDw


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Actually I'm not sure, but isn't this an old image....?
> 
> After a quick search at Google, this image was first posted on 2. February, then on 8. March and later somewhere in April:
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZiuPcRo8NzA0T5kxkXkY7foTEQzgswmi3yRk4fRzgRPRtu2mT9OWcLGR33saUFSV5F-YtHvw4YVNrHDRSDnd4vQfGKPJ-QUq4GvOJ4wJIGDl9nm5zkpPzVMulFxXrP0exLSxSmxMyMcWWeRKFif7BWO3YRJJIoVpLheKcHdDscqnjCRWdmTTNC5u9dUmjRD-7ZoOlDfEszshs79b3aQYYj4yTi08Awlpe6tTHedH-1UwmhB1mYn5tzVIripW_1CC43btN5hIMlGL7WrkeNALsUMfGTb9g9a5Vc4FzGON68q7-vKK4EyjxzdXZKWDV6Lphx5qqbJ2XsduBhf9jIxA2cIPalSEzDw
> 
> View attachment 563225



That pic is also in the post #984 of this thread.

The upper part of the island structure was sitting there in the assembly plant since the December of last year.


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## MReynolds

Any recent images of the Shanghai shipyard? I'm curious to see how far along they are with the new basin construction.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Overall, I would say that simulation structure doesn't entirely represent the exact shape of the Type 003 island structure.

Many parts were still the leftover of the Type 001, and no way that the Type 003 would revert back to the retro design of the Type 001, yet not the Type 002.

They just didn't bother to dismantle the leftover parts of the Type 001 and Type 002.

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Overall, I would say that simulation structure doesn't entirely represent the exact shape of the Type 003 island structure.
> 
> Many parts were still the leftover of the Type 001, and no way that the Type 003 would revert back to the retro design of the Type 001, yet not the Type 002.
> 
> They just didn't bother to dismantle the leftover parts of the Type 001 and Type 002.




That's clear, but the question is, where is this structure located (at Dalian or indeed at Shanghai) and why was it built?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> That's clear, but the question is, where is this structure located (at Dalian or indeed at Shanghai) and why was it built?



That mockup island structure belongs to the institute 701 which is located in Wuhan.

Basically the main purpose is doing some simulation for the electronic systems testing, but they didn't bother to rebuild an exact mockup for the island of the Type 002 and Type 003, because it would have a lot extra work by dismantling the entire existing structure, which would be a waste of time.

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## ChineseTiger1986

MReynolds said:


> Any recent images of the Shanghai shipyard? I'm curious to see how far along they are with the new basin construction.



Here is the recent update about the modules and the nearly complete basin.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Here is the recent update about the modules and the nearly complete basin.
> 
> 
> View attachment 563396
> 
> 
> View attachment 563399



I thought this is the more recent image, since the dam is now open to the river?!!

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> I thought this is the more recent image, since the dam is now open to the river?!!
> 
> View attachment 563446



Yep, it is now connected to the mouth of the Yangtze River and the East China Sea.

And it looks like the entire structure of the supercarrier is going to assemble in the same place, then launch directly into the pool.

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## MReynolds

Deino said:


> I thought this is the more recent image, since the dam is now open to the river?!!



Both images are the same. Chinese Tiger's image includes the street labels (i.e. white lines).



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> And it looks like the entire structure of the supercarrier is going to assemble in the same place, then launch directly into the pool.



Is that official? I thought assembly would take place in Dry Dock #4. Right now a 055 and two other vessels are occupying it.

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## LKJ86



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## ChineseTiger1986

MReynolds said:


> Both images are the same. Chinese Tiger's image includes the street labels (i.e. white lines).
> 
> 
> 
> Is that official? I thought assembly would take place in Dry Dock #4. Right now a 055 and two other vessels are occupying it.



If the hull keeps getting bigger, then it would be unlikely that they are going to move it into the dry dock #4.



LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 563463
> View attachment 563464
> View attachment 563465



To be fair, if the funnel still doesn't paint dark at the end, then most likely it won't be part of the Type 003 island structure.


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## waja2000

MReynolds said:


> If the hull keeps getting bigger, then it would be unlikely that they are going to move it into the dry dock #4.
> To be fair, if the funnel still doesn't paint dark at the end, then most likely it won't be part of the Type 003 island structure.



I estimate 003 still assembly in Dry Dock #4, after new basin complete, the large 003 module at construction site allow ship to #4 Dry Dock for assembly, like UK aircraft Carrier Method. after 003 launch, the new basin will be come site to retrofit the 003 aircraft carrier.


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## ZeEa5KPul

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 563298


Source, bruh? I have to admit I've been e-stalking you a bit, searching through CCTV-4's shows around the time you made that post looking for it. All I've managed to find is some documentary about Nigeria.


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## MReynolds

10 carriers by 2049 is doable. Already they have two. 30 years is more than enough time to build 8 carriers.


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## Figaro

MReynolds said:


> 10 carriers by 2049 is doable. Already they have two. 30 years is more than enough time to build 8 carriers.


The question is does China need 10 carriers. The United States has 10 carriers and circumnavigates the entire world. I'm pretty sure China has no intention of replacing the US as the "world's policeman." A force of 10 carriers would be extremely costly to operate ... money better spent on nuclear submarines.

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## obj 705A

Figaro said:


> The question is does China need 10 carriers. The United States has 10 carriers and circumnavigates the entire world. I'm pretty sure China has no intention of replacing the US as the "world's policeman." A force of 10 carriers would be extremely costly to operate ... money better spent on nuclear submarines.



having dozens of SSNs is good, having dozens of SSNs in addition to 10 or so CVNs is even better.
the economy is in a very good condintion & 1$ trillion is being added to the GDP every year.
why should a country as big as China make do with a navy that is only enough to protect its coast when a country as small as The UK acts all high & mighty & intends to send its aircraft carrier all the way from the Atlantic to China's islands to conduct "freedom of navigation patrols"?
the Chinese GDP is more than 5 times that of the UK and the economic gap is increasing at an extremely rapid pace.
even in the worst case scenario if we assume that China's GDP will never exceed that of the US, still by the year 2049 the Chinese GDP would be so large even if they spend less than 2% of their GDP on the military they would still get 10 CVNs.

2 CVNs for the mediteranean so that one CVN is available at any one time to pay the Baltic sea a visit when ever a Europian country like the UK or France etc.. wants to conduct "freedom of navigation patrol" near the shores of Chinese islands, 2 CVNs for Indian ocean, 2 CVNs for the SCS and 4 CVNs for the Pacific so that no less than 2 are available at any time to say hello to Calofornia when ever the US act all high and mighty & conduct a FONOP.

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## jaybird

Figaro said:


> The question is does China need 10 carriers. The United States has 10 carriers and circumnavigates the entire world. I'm pretty sure China has no intention of replacing the US as the "world's policeman." A force of 10 carriers would be extremely costly to operate ... money better spent on nuclear submarines.



Whether China needs 10 carriers or not also depending on her relation with the US. If the relationship between China and US keep deteriorating like right now with trade war. Whose to say it might not turn into a hot war in the future? Both sides do not want war, but miscalculation does happen.

There is no intention of China to replace the US as the world's policeman. But what if the policeman started to blackmail and provoking you into fights? Then it doesn't matter how costly is to operate 10 carriers or even more. You got to do what you got to do to defend your interest. It might not be about cost but survival of a nation. As for now, 10 carriers does sound like too much. But we don't know what's going to happen in the future

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## MReynolds

Figaro said:


> The question is does China need 10 carriers. The United States has 10 carriers and circumnavigates the entire world. I'm pretty sure China has no intention of replacing the US as the "world's policeman." A force of 10 carriers would be extremely costly to operate ... money better spent on nuclear submarines.



As others have stated, it all depends on the geopolitical situation. If the PLA-Navy plans to have three carriers per fleet (North, East and South) then a total of 10 isn't that far out. One carrier in maintenance, one for training and the other on station. The 10th carrier could be used to protect her interests outside of their Sphere of Influence (i.e. Africa).

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## Deino

Dredging progress ...

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## Deino

Interesting comparison of the Shanghai JNCX shipyard & Type 003 carrier construction/assembly site: left images were taken on 8. March 2019 ... right one on 8. June 2019.


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## cirr

Surely the above is NOT where Type 003 carrier #1 will be constructed/assembled?


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## Deino

cirr said:


> Surely the above is NOT where Type 003 carrier #1 will be constructed/assembled?



To admit, I'm still undecided if they will move these super-modules to a dedicated dry dock - say the famous no. 4 - assemble it to the finished carrier, move it back for outfitting ... or if there will be a "final-assembly" site just there?

What do you think?

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## waja2000

Deino said:


> To admit, I'm still undecided if they will move these super-modules to a dedicated dry dock - say the famous no. 4 - assemble it to the finished carrier, move it back for outfitting ... or if there will be a "final-assembly" site just there?
> 
> What do you think?
> View attachment 564268



I think is impossible to do final assembly AC at superblocks construction site. because after finish AC assembly it will be ~330 meter long, is danger launch at basin only 850 meter long and hard to control during launch to water. as China shipyard always play safe, transport superblocks to dry dock #4 will be most possible choice.

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## JSCh



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## MReynolds

They're going to need to dig a deeper basin if they're planning on building it completely at that site.


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## waja2000

MReynolds said:


> 10 carriers by 2049 is doable. Already they have two. 30 years is more than enough time to build 8 carriers.



I guest currently Liaoning Aircraft Carriar will going to retire not later than 2030, since it already in water more than 33 years. other 11 year before 2030 pretty enough to serve PLAN.

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## MReynolds

waja2000 said:


> I guest currently Liaoning Aircraft Carriar will going to retire not later than 2030, since it already in water more than 33 years. other 11 year before 2030 pretty enough to serve PLAN.



Maybe. Although the Liaoning (formerly Varyag) was exposed to the elements for a decade, it was never used because construction was stopped for financial reasons. Dalian shipyard spent about 9 years evaluating it's seaworthiness. AFAIK, there was no mention of how much work was needed to make her seaworthy again. Since the construction completion / refit took a little over a year, it suggests to me that not much repair was needed. If she's retired by 2030, that would only mean a short period of 18 years of service which isn't much, especially that she wasn't used as often as other carriers in the World. What's the longest time Liaoning spent at sea? A month? What's the frequency of use? IMO, there's plenty of life left in her. My guess would be somewhere between 2040-2050 is when the PLA-Navy would even consider retiring her.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1139104899680153601

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## lcloo

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1139104899680153601


The area in yellow circle does look like hangar without upper wall and roof top. The other void area further to the left (not in your picture) looks like spaces for engine/ power plant.

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## lcloo

Hand sketch....from 052D合肥舰/ 扛画具的CZ

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## MReynolds

What's the official line regarding power generation? Nuclear or conventional? AFAIK, there has been no consensus on this.


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## ChineseTiger1986

MReynolds said:


> What's the official line regarding power generation? Nuclear or conventional? AFAIK, there has been no consensus on this.



Well, the progression of the current third carrier is very close to the CVN-79 in that photo.

You can see that the Type 003 most likely got 2 major engines and 4 steam turbines, unlike the layout of the CV-16/17, which got 8 boilers and 4 steam turbines.

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## MReynolds

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Well, the progression of the current third carrier is very close to the CVN-79 in that photo.



It's that reason why I asked. JNCX has kept certain parts covered up from prying eyes and it was not assembled in Dry Dock #4 (DD4). Since DD4 doesn't have environmental shelters, it would be rather difficult to hide the installation of nuclear reactors. It's not to say the current location at JNCX is totally secure, but it's a little easier to hide it than in a dry dock. At Dalian, no effort was made to cover up the conventional power plant installation because it's nothing new to anyone. I'm now expecting the entire engineering level to be completed (minus the bulbous section) before it gets relocated to Dry Dock #4.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You can see that the Type 003 most likely got 2 major engines and 4 steam turbines, unlike the layout of the CV-16/17, which got 8 boilers and 4 steam turbines.



I don't see anything to support what you're claiming. I only see openings where the steam turbines would be located. In the end, we'll all know on the power plant used when the island is installed.


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## Deino

lcloo said:


> Hand sketch....from 052D合肥舰/ 扛画具的CZ



So something like this?

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## lcloo

Deino said:


> So something like this?
> 
> View attachment 565445


Yes, but bear in mind it is just a sketch, a well educated thought one though. There is a possibility that there are two large super module blocks instead of just one block. We don't know from the photo at this stage.

I posted months ago regarding the contract tender on dredging of exit point for the harbour basin, I can't remember the project completion date, may be around 25th of June the dredging at exit point must be completed. So if there is any movement of the superblocks to dry dock, it would likely be happened after end of July/ August because the harbour basin itself is not yet deepened.

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## ILC

Looks like nuclear. Can't believe it might be nuclear. To contrary previous rumors.

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> Yes, but bear in mind it is just a sketch, a well educated thought one though. There is a possibility that there are two large super module blocks instead of just one block. We don't know from the photo at this stage.
> 
> I posted months ago regarding the contract tender on dredging of exit point for the harbour basin, I can't remember the project completion date, may be around 25th of June the dredging at exit point must be completed. So if there is any movement of the superblocks to dry dock, it would likely be happened after end of July/ August because the harbour basin itself is not yet deepened.




Thanks, however I must admit I did not measure and calculate, but my feeling so far told me the finished ship should be about twice the length of the modules so far connected; aka I would have expected at least two such super structures and not the nearly complete ship, .... but time will tell. And also, there are come critics since he added details which look more like two nuclear reactors - as on USN CVN's - than a usual "power-pack".

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## lcloo

About the length of the ship, your feeling is right. The top deck will extend to the bow, and the missing part of the stern may be longer than the sketch.

Correction on harbour basin project scheduled completion time.

My post dated 24th March 2019:-
_"There are discussions in CJDBY that the proposed new "launching and fitting out basin/pool" contract is to *be completed by October this year.* And also a mobile dock or barge will be completed by the same time._

_If the above are true, then it is possible that ac 003's planned launching schedule is after October this year. I have a photo dated 2018-8-19 showing a module of 003, which indicate that JNCX started fabricating that module in 2nd quarter of 2018._ 
(Edit: forget about the "launching after October this year" part. It should be movement of super module to dry dock.)
_
Since October 2019 is about 1 1/2 years after, it is quite reasonable that ac 003 will be launched around then. It will be interesting to see if they will use a dry dock or using the mobile barge method that launched type 055 DDG."_

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## waja2000

MReynolds said:


> It's that reason why I asked. JNCX has kept certain parts covered up from prying eyes and it was not assembled in Dry Dock #4 (DD4). Since DD4 doesn't have environmental shelters, it would be rather difficult to hide the installation of nuclear reactors. It's not to say the current location at JNCX is totally secure, but it's a little easier to hide it than in a dry dock. At Dalian, no effort was made to cover up the conventional power plant installation because it's nothing new to anyone. I'm now expecting the entire engineering level to be completed (minus the bulbous section) before it gets relocated to Dry Dock #4.



From news so far don't think 003 is Nuclear power AC.


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## ChineseTiger1986

waja2000 said:


> From news so far don't think 003 is Nuclear power AC.



FZGFZY has made so many erroneous predictions, his popularity is going down along with the CF forum.

Now it is not even going to carry as three smaller super blocks to the dry dock, most likely one larger super block only.

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## waja2000

I read news possible some AC module will transport via road in shipyard using Spmt Self Propelled Modular Transporter, max up to 20K tons. distance about 2.5km to dry dock #4.

Example Spmt Self Propelled Modular Transporter.

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## Deino

Once again a brilliant write-up on the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Navy carrier program by Rick Joe aka @Blitzo !

He reviews "these recent developments in context of what has been previously rumored for the PLAN carrier program. Projections of future carrier development and procurement trajectories will also be considered, including the topic of carrier airwings."

Congrats, hat off ... well done.

https://thediplomat.com/2019/06/a-mid-2019-guide-to-chinese-aircraft-carriers/

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1143867025305063425

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## Deino

Very interesting new images of the Type 003 carrier currently under construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard, Shanghai. For the first time a module - or super block - was moved near the new basin, eventually to be transported to the dry dock.

Thanks to @*10969YUKIKAZE* !

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## lcloo

Looks like fabrication of 3rd super model block will begin soon.

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## Tamiyah

S


Deino said:


> Very interesting new images of the Type 003 carrier currently under construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard, Shanghai. For the first time a module - or super block - was moved near the new basin, eventually to be transported to the dry dock.
> 
> Thanks to @*10969YUKIKAZE* !
> 
> View attachment 568865
> View attachment 568866
> View attachment 568867


o


lcloo said:


> Looks like fabrication of 3rd super model block will begin soon.


I dont think so soon because basin is not ready yet. All the super blocks also have not been constructed. I think it would take almost 6 to 7 months till it is launched.


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## lcloo

Tamiyah said:


> S
> 
> o
> 
> I dont think so soon because basin is not ready yet. All the super blocks also have not been constructed. I think it would take almost 6 to 7 months till it is launched.



Sorry, can't catch what you are trying to imply. Launch? Module block transfer? or new module block fabrication?

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## Tamiyah

lcloo said:


> Sorry, can't catch what you are trying to imply. Launch? Module block transfer? or new module block fabrication?


Just ignore my comment.

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## lcloo

Both Module blocks have moved. Note that the first component for the 3rd module has been hoisted into place. And the dredging of the harbour basin is in well progress.

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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/3247670962/4399146993449710

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## Tamiyah

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 571257
> 
> https://m.weibo.cn/3247670962/4399146993449710


Basin isnt complete yet isn't it?


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## lcloo

Tamiyah said:


> Basin isnt complete yet isn't it?


Harbour Basin is to be completed by end October.

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## LKJ86



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## lcloo

Module block #3 is in good progress.

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## LKJ86



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## Tamiyah

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 572101


Looks like the two modules will be joined soon.


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## jaybird

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 572101



What a nice and clear pic! Maybe from a drone shot?

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1164188361482997760

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

Via Bltizo/SDF aka @RickJoe_PLART 

"GE updated JNCX, with imagery from 10th March.

We are finally able to measure the beam of 003 directly rather than having to measure a secondary object to extrapolate its beam."
I consistently measure between 40-41 meters on GE, which is similar to what the CSIS satellite imagery earlier this year measured."

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## LKJ86

Via @核子可乐真好喝 from Weibo

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Via Bltizo/SDF aka @RickJoe_PLART
> 
> "GE updated JNCX, with imagery from 10th March.
> 
> We are finally able to measure the beam of 003 directly rather than having to measure a secondary object to extrapolate its beam."
> I consistently measure between 40-41 meters on GE, which is similar to what the CSIS satellite imagery earlier this year measured."
> 
> View attachment 576785



I have played with GE by myself, and it looks like the discrepancy is quite small.





The water beam Type 003 was mostly around 41 meters in my trial of GE.









The actual length of the Type 055 is 180 meters, and it is around 177-178 meters on GE.












The Type 052D is 157 meters, and it is around 155 meters on GE.








The Type 052DL got pretty much the same exact measurement on GE.








Finally the USS George H.W. Bush, the measurements on GE are also quite identical to the official ones.

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## LKJ86

Via @红色金银潍 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via www.top81cn.cn

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## ChineseTiger1986

It looks like the fourth ship will be an improved variant of the Type 003, maybe it will soon start the construction in DL?

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## waja2000

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It looks like the fourth ship will be an improved variant of the Type 003, maybe it will soon start the construction in DL?



Look more like 004 in design phase. attachment said 004 they study different design scheme. in attachment also see the person start working in Dec 2018 and take lead for 004 design, i guest need 2 year to enter design freeze phase.


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## ChineseTiger1986

waja2000 said:


> Look more like 004 in design phase. attachment said 004 they study different design scheme.



By looking at the designation, it looks more like a subclass of the Type 003, likely being a more refined version of the Type 003.

Maybe 003 is driven by the steam turbines, while 004 is designed with the IEP?

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> By looking at the designation, it looks more like a subclass of the Type 003, likely being a more refined version of the Type 003.
> 
> Maybe 003 is driven by the steam turbines, while 004 is designed with the IEP?



To admit, can anyone provide a clear translation of the relevant parts?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> To admit, can anyone provide a clear translation of the relevant parts?



**1型舰 = Type 001
**2型舰 = Type 002
**3型舰 = Type 003
**4舰 = Fourth Ship

#4 doesn't have its own standalone class, but it looks standalone from the basic Type 003. That's why it looks like a subclass of the Type 003.

The Type 001 definitely represents the CV-16, while the Type 002 represents the CV-17, since the designation of the Type 001A doesn't exist, and the CV-17 cannot be designated as the Type 001 either.

The third ship currently represents as the final class of the PLAN aircraft carriers, even its successors also belong to this class.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> **1型舰 = Type 001
> **2型舰 = Type 002
> **3型舰 = Type 003
> **4舰 = Fourth Ship
> 
> #4 doesn't have its own standalone class, but it looks standalone from the basic Type 003. That's why it looks like a subclass of the Type 003.
> 
> The Type 001 definitely represents the CV-16, while the Type 002 represents the CV-17, since the designation of the Type 001A doesn't exist, and the CV-17 cannot be designated as the Type 001 either.
> 
> The third ship currently represents as the final class of the PLAN aircraft carriers, even its successors also belong to this class.




Thank you so much

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## Deino

Finally there seems to be some sort of movement at the Jiangnan Shipyard, it seems ar least as if the Type 003 carrier modules are being moved ... 

(Images via @10969YUKIKAZE)

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## Deino

Deino said:


> Finally there seems to be some sort of movement at the Jiangnan Shipyard, it seems ar least as if the Type 003 carrier modules are being moved ...
> 
> (Images via @10969YUKIKAZE)
> 
> View attachment 583004
> View attachment 583005



According to the original tweet and some translations it is assumed that the bow installation work of 003 type aircraft carrier has begun. ... however I can't see something what looks like a bow?!


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## lcloo

Deino said:


> According to the original tweet and some translations it is assumed that the bow installation work of 003 type aircraft carrier has begun. ... however I can't see something what looks like a bow?!


From the photo, it looks more like Fabrication of the bow module has begun rather than installation of the bow. At least a couple of months will pass before the bow modules is "ship shape".

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> From the photo, it looks more like Fabrication of the bow module has begun rather than installation of the bow. At least a couple of months will pass before the bow modules is "ship shape".




Me again, since I think I made a mistake ... at first sight I thought the two images posted yesterday were taken from the regular direction facing the big basin, however after comparing with the bigger image from top I was wrong and the line of sight - even if not entirely sure - seems to be as marked by that arrow ... Or am I wrong again.

Anyway, that still means of the so far two mega-blocks or super-modules at least one is missing?!






Me again ... I completely missed this image posted on 2 August, there is already only one module!?

Sorry for the confusion ... I think I need a break.

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## Deino

It seems indeed as I corrected myself, and this GE satellite image confirms that the large modules have been moved to the front edge of the basin - as we already discussed assuming that the assembly has reached the stage of being ready to be transferred to the dry dock for final assembly - and this image also confirms the rumours from yesterday, since the part looks indeed like the rumoured bow ....

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## lcloo

There will likely be at least 4 super modules in the making. The first two mid-ship super modules are in advance stage of fabrication and is under the mobile weather halls. The third one (bow module) is being fabricated and is located at the opposite end facing the main road.

The fourth super modules for the stern of the aircraft carrier has not been fabricated yet, but pieces of its components can be seen lying at the edge of the fabrication yard.

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## Deino

The latest progress of the Type 003 aircraft carrier currently under construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai.

(Image via hongye88)

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## LKJ86

Via www.haohanfw.com

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## 帅的一匹

is type 003 a conventional one or nuclear one_?


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## lcloo

My speculation is that this is a super large transportation barge, possibly built for moving the 003 super modules to the dry dock. It is located next to dry dock No.4.

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## waja2000

帅的一匹 said:


> is type 003 a conventional one or nuclear one_?



conventional power with EMALS system

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## vi-va

waja2000 said:


> conventional power with EMALS system


A better EMALS system than US FORD. US use low voltage, China use medium voltage. The designer said more advanced than US.

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## waja2000

viva_zhao said:


> A better EMALS system than US FORD. US use low voltage, China use medium voltage. The designer said more advanced than US.



Also China EMALS using Direct Current* (*DC) drive but US EMALS using AC power.

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## Bussard Ramjet

viva_zhao said:


> A better EMALS system than US FORD. US use low voltage, China use medium voltage. The designer said more advanced than US.



The designer of a system is describing his own system as the better one. 

Gosh! Obviously he must be totally fair in his assessment and completely without bias!


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## LKJ86

Bussard Ramjet said:


> The designer of a system is describing his own system as the better one.
> 
> Gosh! Obviously he must be totally fair in his assessment and completely without bias!


It is just unacceptable to Indian.

"How dare you Chinese do better than American?"

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## ZeEa5KPul

LKJ86 said:


> It is just unacceptable to Indian.
> 
> "How dare you Chinese do better than American?"


It's a really pathetic mentality. Indians believe that China is a country "like them", with a shared colonial history (despite the fact that China resisted Western aggression much more successfully). Since China is "like them", it must also always remain poor and backward like they are - any advancement beyond them or the whites they worship is fake, copied (from the future, I guess), etc. Instead of looking at China's progress and being inspired to get their own act together and partner with China, they choose to deny and hate and bow lower to whites. It used to make me a bit angry, now I just find it pitiful.

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## ChineseTiger1986

waja2000 said:


> conventional power with EMALS system



It seems a little too big to be conventional, and we shall see the truth later.


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## ozranger

Something came out

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## Deino

ozranger said:


> Something came out
> View attachment 586428




Is this a recent one? I remember a similar one from about a year ago.....


https://jmqmil.sina.cn/spider2/doc-...mod=r&loc=2&r=9&rfunc=26&tj=none&wm=5312_0501

https://photo.sina.cn/album_8_203_70336.htm?ch=8&vt=4&hd=1


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## Deino

I found it ... posted on 13. January this year already 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1084534923732664320

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## Deino




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## samsara

I am really bad at looking at pics... 
So what's indeed the dynamics of these two pics?


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## Deino

samsara said:


> I am really bad at looking at pics...
> So what's indeed the dynamics of these two pics?




To admit not moch ... just two recent images for the record. 

Sorry


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## samsara

Deino said:


> To admit not moch ... just two recent images for the record.
> 
> Sorry


Oh, okay, that's fine Deino. I asked sincerely, no sarcasm there! I thought there might be some dynamics that I couldn't identify after spotted them closely.

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## LKJ86

Via @捣蛋就对 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @正版河图 from Weibo

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## lcloo

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 589503
> 
> Via @正版河图 from Weibo


Looks like there are four super modules now. The further away one is the bow module. And on the left side of the yard are what looks like flight decks.

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> Looks like there are four super modules now. The further away one is the bow module. And on the left side of the yard are what looks like flight decks.




Exactly my question ... Are these already segments of the deck?

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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Exactly my question ... Are these already segments of the deck?
> 
> View attachment 589540


Obviously, Shanghai does much better than Dalian...

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## lcloo

This is how you move a large object by barge. 

This is an example taken from a scene of moving a large segment of undersea tunnel in China.

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## JSCh

*39-year-old heads China’s 3rd carrier construction*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2019/11/21 19:53:40

With military observers expecting China's second aircraft carrier to join naval service soon, the country's third aircraft carrier is being built in Shanghai, headed by a 39-year-old builder, the state broadcaster reported.

Experts said on Thursday that China's shipbuilding industry consists of very young teams and has mastered technologies to build aircraft carriers that could one day rival the US.



China's second aircraft carrier leaves the Dalian Shipyard for its ninth sea trial on Thursday. Photo: IC

China's third aircraft carrier is under construction at Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai, and its chief builder was born in 1980, Jin Yi'nan, a professor at National Defense University of the People's Liberation Army (PLA), disclosed in a China Central Television (CCTV) program this week.

Jin said he recently visited the shipyard, but did not reveal the name of the chief builder or anything on the new carrier's development.

The Xinhua News Agency reported in November 2018 that the new type of aircraft carrier was being built, but official media has rarely mentioned any progress since then.

Military observers speculated that the third carrier could be larger than the previous two and feature a flat deck with an electromagnetic catapult.

Hu Wenming, then-chairman of China Shipbuilding Industry Corp and head of China's aircraft carrier program, said on CCTV in August that China has a mature development and construction team, with 36 years as the average age of team members.

"Whatever type of aircraft carrier our country wants to develop, we can make it on our own," Hu said.

China learned from refitting the purchased former Soviet aircraft carrier Varyag into the Liaoning, used the experience in building the second carrier, and is now applying innovations in the third one, a military expert who asked not to be named told the Global Times on Thursday.

"The teams are very young, and you can expect them to build aircraft carriers that could be on par with the ones of the US in the foreseeable future," the expert said.

China's second aircraft carrier sailed through the Taiwan Straits on Sunday and conducted tests and training in the South China Sea, the PLA Navy announced on Monday.

Photos and videos surfaced on Chinese social media showing the second carrier arriving in Sanya, South China's Hainan Province on Tuesday, as military analysts speculate it might soon be commissioned at a naval base there.

Military analysts predict that China could operate around six carriers in the future, as later entries could become nuclear-powered.

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## Deino

In recent times, Chinese aircraft carrier became quite shy ... no news from the Type 002 and also the Type 003 currently under construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai tries to hide ...
(Image via @bluefoxmd)

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## Han Patriot

I am now at a yard directly opposite Jiangnan, this is a civillian yard and you would be astonished by how fast they build ships here.

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## GS Zhou

Han Patriot said:


> I am now at a yard directly opposite Jiangnan, this is a civillian yard and you would be astonished by how fast they build ships here.


Guess you are in Waigaoqiao?


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## Han Patriot

GS Zhou said:


> Guess you are in Waigaoqiao?


Hahahah, I will not say much more. Let's just say they are making ships like pancakes, the only weakness is engliah documentation. The exact opposite of Indians, then write alot of crap but deliver shit.



GS Zhou said:


> Guess you are in Waigaoqiao?


Hahahah, I will not say much more. Let's just say they are making ships like pancakes, the only weakness is engliah documentation. The exact opposite of Indians, then write alot of crap but deliver shit.


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## obj 705A

while for sure the best way to control costs is to make the production continuous (for example if the PLAN wants 10 super carriers then they would be better off spreading the production to 50 years at a rate of 1 carrier per 5 years), however it's also completely possible to produce warships at a very high rate & then stoping the production completely which is what they will do with type 075 (obviously the production of the 075 will stop after 3-6 years or so), they can do the same thing with CVs/CVNs, that is they can produce CVNs simultaneously at both Dalian & Shanghai & assuming that it takes a shipyard 3 years to launch a carrier that means they can (if they want) produce carriers at a rate of 1 per 1.5 years in which case they can reach their goal of 6 super carriers after just 9 years after which they can stop the production of carriers completely & instead produce civilian ships just to keep the jobs, even if there are too many civilian ships.

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## smooth manifold



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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1204341536735055872

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1204341536735055872


Did he mention what type of propulsion?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> Did he mention what type of propulsion?



Nope, he claimed to have just finished a tour from the JN shipyard.

The Type 003 displaces around 80,000 - 100,000 tonnes with the EMALS and AAG, also with the next generation OLS.

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## azesus

Its 260K HP gas turbine with IEP right?


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## ChineseTiger1986

azesus said:


> Its 260K HP gas turbine with IEP right?



If this ship is that large, then it is indeed a CVN, as the gas turbines need to be evenly distributed with two exhaust stacks which will make the ship having two island structures. Since China is not a big fan of the twin islands, therefore it would unlikely have gas turbines as the propulsion.

If the full displacement of the Type 003 is over 100,000 metric tons, then it will make this class of ship the second class of the supercarrier that exceeds 100K metric tons, the first class is the Gerald Ford class.

Even the famous Nimitz class didn't exceed 100K in metric tons wise. The latest two ships USS Ronald Reagan and USS George Bush fell a bit short of 100K metric tons.

The register ton of the CVN-76 at the port of Yokosuka in Japan shows that the latest Nimitz class ships displace in 98,900 metric tons as the full load tonnage.

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## smooth manifold



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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1205776965267021825

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## JSCh



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## Deino

JSCh said:


>




Looks like snow or "Winter has arrived"

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## ChineseTiger1986

The waterline length of the Type 003 is around 320 meters.

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## obj 705A

I checked out the original source at CJDBY that did the measurement of the waterline length, so apparently he did it by merging images of the modules together which is possibly not accurate but anyway, these past few days we have been getting news & leaks for example from that person who visited that shipyard that suggest the Type 003 will be comparable in size to the Ford or Nimitz & significantly larger than a Kitty Hawk, that is why personaly I bet the type 003 will be a CVN. 
the one & only possible limitation to having a CVN was technological however just as how years ago we found out all of a sudden that China's railgun is at a more advanced stage than that of the US, we should not be surprised if China already is capable of having nuclear propulsion for it's carrier, especially since China has had nuclear propulsion (at least on it's subs) since like.. the Mao era.

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## ChineseTiger1986

obj 705A said:


> I checked out the original source at CJDBY that did the measurement of the waterline length, so apparently he did it by merging images of the modules together which is possibly not accurate but anyway, these past few days we have been getting news & leaks for example from that person who visited that shipyard that suggest the Type 003 will be comparable in size to the Ford or Nimitz & significantly larger than a Kitty Hawk, that is why personaly I bet the type 003 will be a CVN.
> the one & only possible limitation to having a CVN was technological however just as how years ago we found out all of a sudden that China's railgun is at a more advanced stage than that of the US, we should not be surprised if China already is capable of having nuclear propulsion for it's carrier, especially since China has had nuclear propulsion (at least on it's subs) since like.. the Mao era.



Although those images are blurry, but they have already found out that the Type 003 is a proportionally skinny AC, and its waterline should be at least comparable to the 317 meters of the Ford/Nimitz, and that's why its flight deck length should be no less than 333 meters as well.

Most of Chinese warships are proportionally lanky, except the Type 075.

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## Deino

Can anyone take a look here ... https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2603109-1-1.html

It seems as if there are new images which only show up when signed in.


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## Akasa

Deino said:


> Can anyone take a look here ... https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2603109-1-1.html
> 
> It seems as if there are new images which only show up when signed in.



Maybe it is related to the fact that, on the 22nd of December, the basin in which the Type 003 is to be assembled has been cleared out. They're probably moving in the modules for assembly soon.

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## lcloo

Deino said:


> Can anyone take a look here ... https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2603109-1-1.html
> 
> It seems as if there are new images which only show up when signed in.



Just different camps of supporters debating over whether there will be 2 or 4 ships for 003 aircraft carrier design, and whether JNCX shipyard will build two 003 with another two to be built in Dalian, or JNCX will be building all two ships and none for Dalian shipyard.

Images are print-screen of Weibo postings (some dated back to 2018), mostly words in Chinese characters.

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## LKJ86

CG














Via @西葛西造舰军事CG from Weibo

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## ZeEa5KPul

Has it been confirmed that 003 will have only three catapults?

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## ChineseTiger1986

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Has it been confirmed that 003 will have only three catapults?



We shall see the answer by 2020 or 2021 whether it has four or three. This image is not official, but by military amateur from Weibo.

BTW, so far we know that this ship cannot displace less than 90,000 metric tons.

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## waja2000

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Has it been confirmed that 003 will have only three catapults?


three catapults mention by some military amateur from Weibo which close reliationship in ship buiding industry.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> ... This image is not official, but by military amateur from Weibo.
> ....



He may be a military amateur, but he surely is a professional CG-artist.

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## ChineseTiger1986

waja2000 said:


> three catapults mention by some military amateur from Weibo which close reliationship in ship buiding industry.



The CG image from 西葛西 will only be accurate when the final form of the ship has been revealed.



Deino said:


> He may be a military amateur, but he surely is a professional CG-artist.



For now, the only controversial topics are nuclear vs conventional and four catapults vs three catapults.

But the tonnage estimation of the ship has been kept increasing as the ship has started to take form.

And the previous estimation of 73,000 metric tons from fzgfzy was clearly off, and he made the same wrong bet for the Type 075.

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## Deino

Finally before year's end again a clearer image of the #PLAN Type 003 aircraft carrier.
(Image via @电池王_ at Weibo)

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## ChineseTiger1986

The cooperation between Jiangnan and Bohai.

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## smooth manifold

just ignore the mosaic. it's not going to be transferred to drydock until June.


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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The CG image from 西葛西 will only be accurate when the final form of the ship has been revealed.
> 
> 
> 
> For now, the only controversial topics are nuclear vs conventional and four catapults vs three catapults.
> 
> But the tonnage estimation of the ship has been kept increasing as the ship has started to take form.
> 
> And the previous estimation of 73,000 metric tons from fzgfzy was clearly off, and he made the same wrong bet for the Type 075.


Isnt the 003 between 80 to 100k tons?


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## Pakistan Space Agency

How long before the construction work can be completed?


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## lcloo

The new harbour basin work has been extended to 2020 May 31st. If transfer of modules to dry dock begins in June, the ship will likely be launched in 2021. Commissioning could be 2023.

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## Figaro

lcloo said:


> The new harbour basin work has been extended to 2020 May 31st. If transfer of modules to dry dock begins in June, the ship will likely be launched in 2021. Commissioning could be 2023.
> 
> View attachment 598929


So basically we are at late 2015/early 2016 using the 002 construction timeline when describing progress of the 003?


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## LKJ86

Via @云墨斋国画 from Weibo











Via @云墨斋国画 from Weibo

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## lcloo

Figaro said:


> So basically we are at late 2015/early 2016 using the 002 construction timeline when describing progress of the 003?


IMO, the current yard at the new harbour basin seen to be working solely on fabrication of 003's hull. And the dry dock will be responsible for joining the hulls into ship shape as well as fitting of components like engines, boilers, radar, propellers etc.

The separation of work functions may speed up the work pace, at least in theory. I can't say for sure whether they can finished the project in shorter time than 002 because there are so many variable factors compare with building of 002, like skill experience, work method, new technology, suppliers etc.

If the dry dock can finished their works and launch the ship in middle of 2021, and carry out the sea trial in 1 to 1/2 year's period, 003 might be able to be commissioned at end 2022 or early 2023.

Just my 2 cent.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> Isnt the 003 between 80 to 100k tons?



Conservatively over 90,000 tonnes, and optimistically over 100,000 tonnes.



lcloo said:


> IMO, the current yard at the new harbour basin seen to be working solely on fabrication of 003's hull. And the dry dock will be responsible for joining the hulls into ship shape as well as fitting of components like engines, boilers, radar, propellers etc.
> 
> The separation of work functions may speed up the work pace, at least in theory. I can't say for sure whether they can finished the project in shorter time than 002 because there are so many variable factors compare with building of 002, like skill experience, work method, new technology, suppliers etc.
> 
> If the dry dock can finished their works and launch the ship in middle of 2021, and carry out the sea trial in 1 to 1/2 year's period, 003 might be able to be commissioned at end 2022 or early 2023.
> 
> Just my 2 cent.



Why boilers?

China doesn't have any type of super powerful boiler to power a 80,000+ tonnes supercarrier.



LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 598939
> View attachment 598940
> 
> Via @云墨斋国画 from Weibo
> 
> View attachment 598945
> View attachment 598946
> View attachment 598947
> 
> Via @云墨斋国画 from Weibo



Here is one more.

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## Han Patriot

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Conservatively over 90,000 tonnes, and optimistically over 100,000 tonnes.
> 
> 
> 
> Why boilers?
> 
> China doesn't have any type of super powerful boiler to power a 80,000+ tonnes supercarrier.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is one more.
> 
> 
> View attachment 599071


Actually boilers are relatively easy to apply and provide the technologically less demanding option. I don't understand what super boilers you are talking about but ultra supercritical boilers is a Chineze specialty and steam turbines do not require super hot metals unlike gas turbine engines.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Han Patriot said:


> Actually boilers are relatively easy to apply and provide the technologically less demanding option. I don't understand what super boilers you are talking about but ultra supercritical boilers is a Chineze specialty and steam turbines do not require super hot metals unlike gas turbine engines.



Metric ton wise, the Kitty Hawk class actually weighed 73,300 tons in full.

https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/cv-63.htm

And its boilers were already much more powerful than both Type 001 & 002.

The Type 003 could outweigh the Kitty Hawk class by 20,000 metric tons.

A supercarrier with such size using the outdated steam boiler technology would be fuel inefficient. It would sacrifice a lot of room for storing the extra fuel, also this means less aviation fuel for the aircrafts.

So no, the Type 003 with such size will not use any steam boiler, the only available options are nuclear powered or gas turbine.

With the gas turbine, this means the Type 003 would require a twin island structure for the evenly distribution of the exhaust stack system. The PLAN hates the twin island structure, they would unlikely go after it.

A 90,000+ tonnes Type 003 will be nuclear powered for sure.

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## waja2000

lcloo said:


> IMO, the current yard at the new harbour basin seen to be working solely on fabrication of 003's hull. And the dry dock will be responsible for joining the hulls into ship shape as well as fitting of components like engines, boilers, radar, propellers etc.
> The separation of work functions may speed up the work pace, at least in theory. I can't say for sure whether they can finished the project in shorter time than 002 because there are so many variable factors compare with building of 002, like skill experience, work method, new technology, suppliers etc.
> If the dry dock can finished their works and launch the ship in middle of 2021, and carry out the sea trial in 1 to 1/2 year's period, 003 might be able to be commissioned at end 2022 or early 2023.
> Just my 2 cent.



After launch still need 1 year 6 month to 2 Year for fitting, sea try need other about 1 year since it much advance AC than 002. new ship AEW&C aircraft + carrier Stealth Fighter maybe also include in test. i guest commissioned at 2024+ much more logic.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1219659295949758471

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## ChineseTiger1986

The waterline length of the Type 003 will be over 310 meters.

In comparison, the waterline of the CVN-79 is 317 meters, and 293 meters without the bulbous bow.








All the waterline modules of the Type 003 show that the total length will exceed 287 meters. Therefore it will be over 310 meters including the bulbous bow.

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## Han93

any update???


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## Deino

Han93 said:


> any update???



via

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1236581083191238658


> Recent Satellite images of #Jiangnan Shipyard, #Shanghai, #China reveal the current stagnation of work on what is suspected to be the PLAN's third aircraft carrier, no major changes since 2019 seen on site as #COVID19 #CoronavirusOutbreak #coronavirus remains a primary issue.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1236595751473631233


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## juj06750

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1236581083191238658
Indian twitters,
don't worry; we're accordingly building up Type 003 carrier as if we're building up Type 075 & Type 052D in shanghai now despite the outbreak of corona virus 
I rather worry about Indian carrier Vikrant, which is still being built for longer than 10 years

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## Deino

juj06750 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1236581083191238658
> Indian twitters,
> don't worry; we're accordingly building up Type 003 carrier as if we're building up Type 075 & Type 052D in shanghai now despite the outbreak of corona virus
> I rather worry about Indian carrier Vikrant, which is still being built for longer than 10 years




Even if in principle I agree with you in mocking the Indian Vikrant, the guy behind "d-atis" is actually a very kind guy.


----------



## Christina Chan

Could this ship be ready before INS Vikrant?


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## Globenim

I know its tempting because they are so vocal and obsessed about China, but who cares about that Indian royal yacht? That's not the measuring stick you want to bother with when building a world class navy.

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## Han Patriot

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Metric ton wise, the Kitty Hawk class actually weighed 73,300 tons in full.
> 
> https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/cv-63.htm
> 
> And its boilers were already much more powerful than both Type 001 & 002.
> 
> The Type 003 could outweigh the Kitty Hawk class by 20,000 metric tons.
> 
> A supercarrier with such size using the outdated steam boiler technology would be fuel inefficient. It would sacrifice a lot of room for storing the extra fuel, also this means less aviation fuel for the aircrafts.
> 
> So no, the Type 003 with such size will not use any steam boiler, the only available options are nuclear powered or gas turbine.
> 
> With the gas turbine, this means the Type 003 would require a twin island structure for the evenly distribution of the exhaust stack system. The PLAN hates the twin island structure, they would unlikely go after it.
> 
> A 90,000+ tonnes Type 003 will be nuclear powered for sure.


Sorry but I need to correct you, nuclear power is not combustion based propulsion, you convert heat into steam. Therefore you will still a steam driven system. Your propulsion would be a steam turbine or electric propulsion energized by steam. Nuclear power is always coupled with steam, gas turbine on the other hand is combustion driven, direct heat to propulsion.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Han Patriot said:


> Sorry but I need to correct you, nuclear power is not combustion based propulsion, you convert heat into steam. Therefore you will still a steam driven system. Your propulsion would be a steam turbine or electric propulsion energized by steam. Nuclear power is always coupled with steam, gas turbine on the other hand is combustion driven, direct heat to propulsion.



The nuclear power is nuclear reactor + steam turbine, whereas the conventional steam power is boiler + steam turbine.

China doesn't have the boiler to power a 70,000 tons class carrier with catapult.

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## Deino

Finally again 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247995103567917056

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## kungfugymnast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The nuclear power is nuclear reactor + steam turbine, whereas the conventional steam power is boiler + steam turbine.
> 
> China doesn't have the boiler to power a 70,000 tons class carrier with catapult.



Look at US conventional aircraft carrier USS America class, they don't need nuclear reactor for for the catapult launch. Only EMALS required nuclear reactor to generate electricity for the magnetic rail launch. Why is it so difficult for China to come up with steam catapult?


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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248240103903744001

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## ChineseTiger1986

kungfugymnast said:


> Look at US conventional aircraft carrier USS America class, they don't need nuclear reactor for for the catapult launch. Only EMALS required nuclear reactor to generate electricity for the magnetic rail launch. Why is it so difficult for China to come up with steam catapult?



China doesn't have those super powerful boilers to power a 70,000 tons aircraft carrier with catapults.

The conventional boiler is old technology, and it is not worthy to waste too much money and time, why not to go straight forward with nuclear powered one when it is available?

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## kungfugymnast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China doesn't have those super powerful boilers to power a 70,000 tons aircraft carrier with catapults.
> 
> The conventional boiler is old technology, and it is not worthy to waste too much money and time, why not to go straight forward with nuclear powered one when it is available?



China can't create catapult that already existed during 60's? Even French old Clemenceau carrier been using catapult launch for old etendard


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## ChineseTiger1986

kungfugymnast said:


> China can't create catapult that already existed during 60's? Even French old Clemenceau carrier been using catapult launch for old etendard



Not the catapult, but the boiler.

China possesses both steam catapult and EMALS.

The boiler is old obsolete technology, so China doesn’t need to re-invent the wheel again, but better to go with the more sophisticated nuclear powered one.

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## kungfugymnast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Not the catapult, but the boiler.
> 
> China possesses both steam catapult and EMALS.
> 
> The boiler is old obsolete technology, so China doesn’t need to re-invent the wheel again, but better to go with the more sophisticated nuclear powered one.



Why do they bother to build conventional Type 002 carrier if they have both steam catapult and EMALS technology? Ski jump launch carrier, the J-15 can't fill more than 15,000lb of internal fuel and carries only air to air missiles or 2x anti-ship missiles to keep maximum take off weight below 69,000lb or 65,000lb. Also catapult steam launch is mechanical, easier to fix and more practical compared to EMALS, why didn't they fit catapult steam launch on Type 002? I can't think of good reason unless PLAN intended to come up with STOVL fighters for Type 001 & 002 in future while J-15 will be transferred to Type 003 that is nuclear powered with EMALS


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## ChineseTiger1986

kungfugymnast said:


> Why do they bother to build conventional Type 002 carrier if they have both steam catapult and EMALS technology? Ski jump launch carrier, the J-15 can't fill more than 15,000lb of internal fuel and carries only air to air missiles or 2x anti-ship missiles to keep maximum take off weight below 69,000lb or 65,000lb. Also catapult steam launch is mechanical, easier to fix and more practical compared to EMALS, why didn't they fit catapult steam launch on Type 002? I can't think of good reason unless PLAN intended to come up with STOVL fighters for Type 001 & 002 in future while J-15 will be transferred to Type 003 that is nuclear powered with EMALS



The third carrier was originally intended to use the steam catapult, but later switched to the EMALS because the EMALS was proven to be far superior in a contest.

So instead of building a 70,000 tons conventional carrier with steam catapult, China had finally decided to move on with a much bigger one (presumably nuclear powered) with the EMALS.

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## kungfugymnast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The third carrier was originally intended to use the steam catapult, but later switched to the EMALS because the EMALS was proven to be far superior in a contest.
> 
> So instead of building a 70,000 tons conventional carrier with steam catapult, China had finally decided to move on with a much bigger one (presumably nuclear powered) with the EMALS.



Wait and see how Type 003 going to be like. Just wanted to see what will they do with Type 001 & 002 later after there's EMALS nuclear powered carrier.


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## ChineseTiger1986

kungfugymnast said:


> Wait and see how Type 003 going to be like. Just wanted to see what will they do with Type 001 & 002 later after there's EMALS nuclear powered carrier.



The supercarrier will likely be launched by mid 2021, so it will definitely take into shape by late 2020 with the island structure.

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## kungfugymnast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The supercarrier will likely be launched by mid 2021, so it will definitely take into shape by late 2020 with the island structure.



That is still some time to go, 1 year later. Their new naval fighter J35 development will only start after the carrier launch system is confirmed available and working that is after completion of its superstructure working reactor and EMALS.


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## waja2000

kungfugymnast said:


> Why do they bother to build conventional Type 002 carrier if they have both steam catapult and EMALS technology? Ski jump launch carrier, the J-15 can't fill more than 15,000lb of internal fuel and carries only air to air missiles or 2x anti-ship missiles to keep maximum take off weight below 69,000lb or 65,000lb. Also catapult steam launch is mechanical, easier to fix and more practical compared to EMALS, why didn't they fit catapult steam launch on Type 002? I can't think of good reason unless PLAN intended to come up with STOVL fighters for Type 001 & 002 in future while J-15 will be transferred to Type 003 that is nuclear powered with EMALS



Type 002 carrier to build urgently since PLA feel unstable in region, especially Taiwan, south China Sea. 2nd reason is construction & maintenance prospective, since they built Type 001, many parts, component is not ideal just built/keep for 1 ship, they need at lease 2nd unit for economic of scale for such large ship. By the time design freeze, I don’t think EMALS is ready. 
Catapult steam launch is not better than EMALS if EMALS work properly. steam launch have few cons since it develop 60 years ago. Compared to steam catapults, EMALS weighs less, occupies less space, and requires less maintenance and manpower. Means a lot cost saving operation. And EMALS is future tech to integrate to navy ship new generation Integrate Electric Propulsion System (IEPS), EMALS so flexible to adjust launch power just by computer, and so can support different weight of UAV launch.
The Issue in US EMALS is not proper design and test in ground so they facing alot of issue. (from news)


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## ChineseTiger1986

kungfugymnast said:


> That is still some time to go, 1 year later. Their new naval fighter J35 development will only start after the carrier launch system is confirmed available and working that is after completion of its superstructure working reactor and EMALS.



It depends, if the Type 003 could be commissioned by 2025, then we might expect to see it carrying the next gen naval aircraft fighters in just a couple of years later.


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## kungfugymnast

waja2000 said:


> Type 002 carrier to build urgently since PLA feel unstable in region, especially Taiwan, south China Sea. 2nd reason is construction & maintenance prospective, since they built Type 001, many parts, component is not ideal just built/keep for 1 ship, they need at lease 2nd unit for economic of scale for such large ship. By the time design freeze, I don’t think EMALS is ready.
> Catapult steam launch is not better than EMALS if EMALS work properly. steam launch have few cons since it develop 60 years ago. Compared to steam catapults, EMALS weighs less, occupies less space, and requires less maintenance and manpower. Means a lot cost saving operation. And EMALS is future tech to integrate to navy ship new generation Integrate Electric Propulsion System (IEPS), EMALS so flexible to adjust launch power just by computer, and so can support different weight of UAV launch.
> The Issue in US EMALS is not proper design and test in ground so they facing alot of issue. (from news)



Got it, just need 2 working carriers as substitute while waiting for the proper nuclear powered carrier. However the J15 are lacking AESA radar for the 2 operational carriers limited to less fuel and payload to take off from less efficient ski ramp.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It depends, if the Type 003 could be commissioned by 2025, then we might expect to see it carrying the next gen naval aircraft fighters in just a couple of years later.



2025 is quite long wait, it will delay the naval fighter project further.


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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> ...
> 2025 is quite long wait, it will delay the naval fighter project further.



Again I don't know, why you constantly claim, the fifth generation fighter will be delayed especially how this should be related to a IMO very realistically estimation by @ChineseTiger1986 for a 2021 launch and service entry around 2025.

Given that the new fighter J-35 will be unveiled hopefully this year or maybe even only 2021, the an estimated flight testing of 5-6 years is not unrealistic and would fit to that date. As long as it is not ready yet, the additional J-15s will do their duty.

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## kungfugymnast

Deino said:


> Again I don't know, why you constantly claim, the fifth generation fighter will be delayed especially how this should be related to a IMO very realistically estimation by @ChineseTiger1986 for a 2021 launch and service entry around 2025.
> 
> Given that the new fighter J-35 will be unveiled hopefully this year or maybe even only 2021, the an estimated flight testing of 5-6 years is not unrealistic and would fit to that date. As long as it is not ready yet, the additional J-15s will do their duty.



If catapult steam, military manufacturers could refer US or French fighters for guideline on the kinetic energy propulsion to send a loaded aircraft weight into the air. If EMALS, it is considered something totally new that even US has not placed 100% operational. Manufacturer will look at lift-drag ratio design that is best to determine when there's really a working EMALS that could really fit and powered by upcoming aircraft carrier.

If EMALS is confirmed powerful enough to easily send even max takeoff 80,000 fighter up into the air, then Shenyang will develop large fighter with focus more on higher payload, more internal fuel, speed and power. If the EMALS is weak, then they'll come up with lighter fighter with lift-drag suited for low speed stability and maneuverability like F/A-18E/F, Rafale, F35C sacrificing top speed slower like Mach 1.8+.


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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> ...
> 
> If EMALS is confirmed powerful enough to easily send even max takeoff 80,000 fighter up into the air, then Shenyang will develop large fighter with focus more on higher payload, more internal fuel, speed and power. If the EMALS is weak, then they'll come up with lighter fighter with lift-drag suited for low speed stability and maneuverability like F/A-18E/F, Rafale, F35C sacrificing top speed slower like Mach 1.8+.



No it will not, it will NOW develop a fighter that will be ready when the carrier is ready. It simply makes no sense to wait until the carrier is done, then test a catapult of whatever kind and then start development of a new fighter.

Like I said so often - and slowly I'm getting the feeling you are here to either constantly troll certain threads with stupid questions, or you are not able or willing to accept the facts: The developed, tested and decided long ago for a type of catapult and if the info is correct it will be an EMALS. They also decided on how the Type 003 carrier will look like, what kind of catapult it will have and what type of fighter it has to launch. ... Therefore they also decided some time ago that - most likely - SAC will finalise development of its FC-31 into an evolved design called J-35 and when nothing goes worse, both, carrier catapult and fighter will be ready for test by around the mid- to late 2020s. Period!

Therefore stop with these constant "they will test a catapult", "they will build a carrier" and "then they will build an enlarged WS-10-powered J-31" ... that's all BS. The PLAN has built and tested catapults, they decided for the Type 03 under construction and they also decided what type of fighter it will operate.

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## ChineseTiger1986

kungfugymnast said:


> Got it, just need 2 working carriers as substitute while waiting for the proper nuclear powered carrier. However the J15 are lacking AESA radar for the 2 operational carriers limited to less fuel and payload to take off from less efficient ski ramp.
> 
> 
> 
> 2025 is quite long wait, it will delay the naval fighter project further.



Those projects cannot rush, the Type 003 will likely start to equip with the J-15B.



Deino said:


> Again I don't know, why you constantly claim, the fifth generation fighter will be delayed especially how this should be related to a IMO very realistically estimation by @ChineseTiger1986 for a 2021 launch and service entry around 2025.
> 
> Given that the new fighter J-35 will be unveiled hopefully this year or maybe even only 2021, the an estimated flight testing of 5-6 years is not unrealistic and would fit to that date. As long as it is not ready yet, the additional J-15s will do their duty.



The new J-15 with the WS-10H engine should belong to the Type 003.

Since the WS-10H is more suitable for the catapult launch, whereas the AL-31F is more suitable for the ski-jump launch.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> ...
> Since the WS-10H is more suitable for the catapult launch, whereas the AL-31F is more suitable for the ski-jump launch.




But why? There is nothing like a certain engine is better or worse rated for a certain catapult or launch system.


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## kungfugymnast

Deino said:


> No it will not, it will NOW develop a fighter that will be ready when the carrier is ready. It simply makes no sense to wait until the carrier is done, then test a catapult of whatever kind and then start development of a new fighter.
> 
> Like I said so often - and slowly I'm getting the feeling you are here to either constantly troll certain threads with stupid questions, or you are not able or willing to accept the facts: The developed, tested and decided long ago for a type of catapult and if the info is correct it will be an EMALS. They also decided on how the Type 003 carrier will look like, what kind of catapult it will have and what type of fighter it has to launch. ... Therefore they also decided some time ago that - most likely - SAC will finalise development of its FC-31 into an evolved design called J-35 and when nothing goes worse, both, carrier catapult and fighter will be ready for test by around the mid- to late 2020s. Period!
> 
> Therefore stop with these constant "they will test a catapult", "they will build a carrier" and "then they will build an enlarged WS-10-powered J-31" ... that's all BS. The PLAN has built and tested catapults, they decided for the Type 03 under construction and they also decided what type of fighter it will operate.



It is based on feasibility and practicality basis. On mock deck, you could get all source of power adequate to power EMALS. But on carrier, it depends on capacity from reactor to generate enough energy to power the EMALS on its own. Sudden power drop/loss would lead to launch failure end up crashing into sea. If all fighters grounded due to lacked of power to launch aircraft designed to take off with full power on EMALS during war will be disastrous. That's why future stealth fighter depends on how powerful the EMALS that will be fitted on carrier. If based on your suggestion, dafest solution is to build medium stealth fighter with lift-drag designed for low speed stability and maneuverability with low maximum speed having 1 main bay and won't have range like J-20



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Those projects cannot rush, the Type 003 will likely start to equip with the J-15B.
> 
> The new J-15 with the WS-10H engine should belong to the Type 003.
> 
> Since the WS-10H is more suitable for the catapult launch, whereas the AL-31F is more suitable for the ski-jump launch.



Agree, only when the launch system is finalized on Type003, the J-15 will be fitted with AESA, more powerful WS10H and designated J15B.



Deino said:


> But why? There is nothing like a certain engine is better or worse rated for a certain catapult or launch system.



Naval fighter is recommended to have the higher thrust the better for better chance of successful launch and less risk of stalling.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> But why? There is nothing like a certain engine is better or worse rated for a certain catapult or launch system.



The AL-31F has the greater acceleration explosiveness, whereas the WS-10H has slightly greater thrust and longer lifespan.

Both engine have its own advantages and shortcomings.

The J-15A with the AL-31F will be reserved for 16 & 17 only.



kungfugymnast said:


> Agree, only when the launch system is finalized on Type003, the J-15 will be fitted with AESA, more powerful WS10H and designated J15B.



If the Type 003 is nuclear powered, then its nuclear reactor will definitely be derived from the CAP1400.

Not sure how its specs being compared to the A1B reactor for the CVN-78 class, but the next gen nuclear reactor being derived from the CAP1700 will likely be superior compared to the A1B reactor.

If the Type 004 really exists, then it will be a superior version of the Type 003, just like the Type 002 to the Type 001.

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## waja2000

kungfugymnast said:


> It is based on feasibility and practicality basis. On mock deck, you could get all source of power adequate to power EMALS. But on carrier, it depends on capacity from reactor to generate enough energy to power the EMALS on its own. Sudden power drop/loss would lead to launch failure end up crashing into sea. If all fighters grounded due to lacked of power to launch aircraft designed to take off with full power on EMALS during war will be disastrous. That's why future stealth fighter depends on how powerful the EMALS that will be fitted on carrier. If based on your suggestion, dafest solution is to build medium stealth fighter with lift-drag designed for low speed stability and maneuverability with low maximum speed having 1 main bay and won't have range like J-20
> Agree, only when the launch system is finalized on Type003, the J-15 will be fitted with AESA, more powerful WS10H and designated J15B.
> Naval fighter is recommended to have the higher thrust the better for better chance of successful launch and less risk of stalling.



I think you may not understandng how EMALS works, it not in-directly use ship power, under EMALS ship power will charge "energy power storage" more simple understanding just like power bank or batteries, ship power will charge full "energy power storage" waiting EMALS to ready launch aircraft/fighter after aircraft/fighter take off, ship power re-change again in 45 second （US EMALS）to ready next launch. 
EMALS design can support up to 40 tons aircraft so not worry at all. medium or heavy fighter will be fine, as long meet Take off/landing requrement will be fine.

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## waja2000

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> If the Type 003 is nuclear powered, then its nuclear reactor will definitely be derived from the CAP1400.
> Not sure how its specs being compared to the A1B reactor for CVN-78 class, but the next gen nuclear reactor being derived from the CAP1700 will likely be superior compared to the A1B reactor.
> If the Type 004 really exists, then it will be a superior version of the Type 003, just like the Type 002 to the Type 001.



China on construction to built experiment nuclear ship, launch in 2022,with install 2 x ACPR50S reactor civilian spec compat nuclear with 25MW electic each total 50MW. not sure future military spec ractor. so is possible China nuclear powered AC can use 4 x ACPR50S = 100MW, should be no issue for 8-90,000 tons Aircraft carriar. no sure china plan on 2/3/4 reactor in AC. or new reactor.

US AC Nimitz class 2 x A4W reactor with total electricity 100MW. USS Ford class 2x A1B reactor will be 125MW electricity in total.

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## ChineseTiger1986

waja2000 said:


> China on construction to built experiment nuclear ship, launch in 2022,with install 2 x ACPR50S reactor civilian spec compat nuclear with 25MW electic each total 50MW. not sure future military spec ractor. so is possible China nuclear powered AC can use 4 x ACPR50S = 100MW, should be no issue for 8-90,000 Aircraft carriar. no sure china plan on 2/3/4 reactor in AC. or new reactor.
> 
> US AC Nimitz class 2 x A4W reactor with total electricity 100MW. USS Ford class 2x A1B reactor will be 125MW electricity in total.



The military version might even have higher priority, therefore the kickstart of the development could even be earlier.

BTW, other than the CAP1400, China has no other alternative propulsion for a 80,000+ tons supercarrier.

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## kungfugymnast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The AL-31F has the greater acceleration explosiveness, whereas the WS-10H has slightly greater thrust and longer lifespan.
> 
> Both engine have its own advantages and shortcomings.
> 
> The J-15A with the AL-31F will be reserved for 16 & 17 only.
> 
> 
> 
> If the Type 003 is nuclear powered, then its nuclear reactor will definitely be derived from the CAP1400.
> 
> Not sure how its specs being compared to the A1B reactor for the CVN-78 class, but the next gen nuclear reactor being derived from the CAP1700 will likely be superior compared to the A1B reactor.
> 
> If the Type 004 really exists, then it will be a superior version of the Type 003, just like the Type 002 to the Type 001.



AL31F has greater acceleration than WS10H? Thought WS10H is superior than AL31F in everything?

"The J-15A with the AL-31F will be reserved for 16 & 17 only."
What does 16 & 17 mean?

Noted on the nuclear reactor, thanks for the info



waja2000 said:


> I think you may not understandng how EMALS works, it not in-directly use ship power, under EMALS ship power will charge "energy power storage" more simple understanding just like power bank or batteries, ship power will charge full "energy power storage" waiting EMALS to ready launch aircraft/fighter after aircraft/fighter take off, ship power re-change again in 45 second （US EMALS）to ready next launch.
> EMALS design can support up to 40 tons aircraft so not worry at all. medium or heavy fighter will be fine, as long meet Take off/landing requrement will be fine.



The energy power storage received electric supply from boiler dynamo powered by reactor? If the EMALS is confirmed capable of launching aircraft up to 40 tons, then they could proceed to develop navy fighter J35 without having to wait for Type003.



waja2000 said:


> China on construction to built experiment nuclear ship, launch in 2022,with install 2 x ACPR50S reactor civilian spec compat nuclear with 25MW electic each total 50MW. not sure future military spec ractor. so is possible China nuclear powered AC can use 4 x ACPR50S = 100MW, should be no issue for 8-90,000 Aircraft carriar. no sure china plan on 2/3/4 reactor in AC. or new reactor.
> 
> US AC Nimitz class 2 x A4W reactor with total electricity 100MW. USS Ford class 2x A1B reactor will be 125MW electricity in total.



Good info, at the meantime PLAN carrier requirement is to provide support to entire South China Sea to entrance area of Pacific Ocean to cover Guam to eastern further preventing US fleet from getting near should conflict happens. Nuclear powered aircraft carrier with more powerful reactors requirements will come after that.


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## ChineseTiger1986

kungfugymnast said:


> AL31F has greater acceleration than WS10H? Thought WS10H is superior than AL31F in everything?
> 
> "The J-15A with the AL-31F will be reserved for 16 & 17 only."
> What does 16 & 17 mean?
> 
> Noted on the nuclear reactor, thanks for the info



Since the AL-31F can reach its afterburner faster than the WS-10H, since the WS-10 family got a lot of reverse engineering from the CFM56 as China did obtain it during the 1980s from the US.

Just like its US counterparts, the WS-10 family usually got less dexterity compared to the AL-31 family which can reach the afterburner in the shortest amount of time.

The only advantages of the WS-10 family is having slightly higher afterburner thrust and longer lifespan.


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## kungfugymnast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Since the AL-31F can reach its afterburner faster than the WS-10H, since the WS-10 family got a lot of reverse engineering from the CFM56 as China did obtain it during the 1980s from the US.
> 
> Just like its US counterparts, the WS-10 family usually got less dexterity compared to the AL-31 family which can reach the afterburner in the shortest amount of time.
> 
> The only advantages of the WS-10 family is having slightly higher afterburner thrust and longer lifespan.



WS10H got tech from AL31F as well, they didn't add the quick afterburner for better reliability. Noted. 

"The J-15A with the AL-31F will be reserved for 16 & 17 only."
>> I just figured out you're referring to type 001 & 002. The J15A will be upgraded to J15B when type 003 onwards entered service. Type 001 & 002 probably for future VSTOL & STOVL and helicopters operation assisting type 075 amphibious assault group.


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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> WS10H got tech from AL31F as well, they didn't add the quick afterburner for better reliability. Noted.
> 
> "The J-15A with the AL-31F will be reserved for 16 & 17 only."
> >> I just figured out you're referring to type 001 & 002. The J15A will be upgraded to J15B when type 003 onwards entered service. Type 001 & 002 probably for future VSTOL & STOVL and helicopters operation assisting type 075 amphibious assault group.




*Dear @kungfugymnast ... please remember again to stick on topic!

You are again and again discussing in very different directions - first from J-15A to J-15B now the benefits of WS-10H against AL-31F - and that all in the carrier thread!*

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## aziqbal

There is no way 003 is nuclear powered 

where is the land based test facility ? 

there is no magic jump to CVN 

it’s a long hard haul 

003 can’t be nuclear powered


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## IblinI

aziqbal said:


> There is no way 003 is nuclear powered
> 
> where is the land based test facility ?
> 
> there is no magic jump to CVN
> 
> it’s a long hard haul
> 
> 003 can’t be nuclear powered


The facility is in the Sichuan province, they are already over that phase, people are talking about the nuclear powered icebreaker or something, but yeah, the type 003 is not nuclear powered


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## ChineseTiger1986

aziqbal said:


> There is no way 003 is nuclear powered
> 
> where is the land based test facility ?
> 
> there is no magic jump to CVN
> 
> it’s a long hard haul
> 
> 003 can’t be nuclear powered



For China, there is no alternative other than the nuclear reactors, even the layout of the Type 003 engine room supports this.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> For China, there is no alternative other than the nuclear reactors, even the layout of the Type 003 engine room supports this.



Really? Do we have images clear enough of the engine room?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Really? Do we have images clear enough of the engine room?



It has been showed before, and it has been analyzed by many military enthusiasts in China.

Here is the meaning of the labels in English and the comparison between the Type 003 and Type 002.

核堆 = nuclear reactor
汽轮机 = steam turbine
锅炉 = boiler
辅舱 = auxiliary room

You can see that the layout of the engine room is fundamentally different between the Type 003 and Type 002.

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## azesus

Nah, 003 is China Kitty-Ford, conventional with EMAL, China dont need nuke powered


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## ChineseTiger1986

azesus said:


> Nah, 003 is China Kitty-Ford, conventional with EMAL, China dont need nuke powered



China doesn't have any suitable propulsion for a 80,000+ tons conventional carrier.

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## Deino

It's not yet officially possible to release it, but I got note, that the modules were realigned so that they are now in the correct order ... and no longer that way: I'm sure in a few days we get more info.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> It's not yet officially possible to release it, but I got note, that the modules were realigned so that they are now in the correct order ... and no longer that way: I'm sure in a few days we get more info.
> 
> View attachment 627158



The layout of the engine room has showed that this ship indeed still uses four steam turbines.

Since it is significantly larger than the Type 002, it is unlikely it is still being 4 x 50,000 shp, more likely the 4 x 70,000 shp version very close to the US Kitty Hawk/Nimitz/Ford.

The steam turbines can be either driven by the eight steam boilers or two nuclear reactors.

The problem is that China hasn’t yet developed the steam boiler more powerful than the one being used in the Type 001/002.

Therefore, this leaves the nuclear reactor as the only plausible answer.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Kitty Hawk class: 8 steam boilers + 4 x 70,000 shp steam turbines

Nimitz class: 2 A4W nuclear reactors + 4 x 70,000 shp steam turbines

Ford class: 2 A1B nuclear reactors + 4 x 70,000 shp steam turbines

Type 001/002: 8 steam boilers + 4 x 50,000 shp steam turbines

Type 003: ????? + 4 x 70,000 shp steam turbines?????

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## english_man

Deino said:


> It's not yet officially possible to release it, but I got note, that the modules were realigned so that they are now in the correct order ... and no longer that way: I'm sure in a few days we get more info.
> 
> View attachment 627158


Could never understand that they originally placed the modules in the wrong order..........as once built up you still have to move them to realign properly at some point!

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1254379016267509761

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## Deino

At the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai at the famous drydock no. 4, where the final assembly of the Type 003 aircraft carrier is expected, this floating dock (?) or huge barque for transporting the modules was spotted. Or is this this something different?

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## Deino

I'm probably a bit too far off with a speculation, but these structures on that barque (if it is indeed one ?) look quite similar to rails and like rails we know on the construction site?

What do you think?

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## LKJ86

Via @屿屿夏 from Weibo

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1255146441397293059

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## Deino

Another one ...

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## lcloo

Probably it will look similar to the picture below when completed.


_Semi-submersible barge (Singapore)._

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## waja2000

MV Xue Long 2 is a Chinese icebreaking research vessel just enter drydock no.4 for 45 days maintenance, only leave drydock no.4 end of June. so wait August ...

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## lcloo

waja2000 said:


> MV Xue Long 2 is a Chinese icebreaking research vessel just enter drydock no.4 for 45 days maintenance, only leave drydock no.4 end of June. so wait August ...


Xue Long 2's maintenance work will be done on various locations in the JNCX yards. It will probably spend 1-2 weeks in the dry dock #4 for below water-line hull works, and will be moved to other locations like inside the harbour basin and at the piers at the river bank.

The submersible deck barge will likely be launched within a few weeks (1-2 weeks?), and will be tested for a short period before commissioning. It will be operational in late May or June.

If this barge is built for transporting CV-XX/003 modules (a very likely case), we will see the aircraft carrier modules in dry dock by mid-Summer.

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## waja2000

lcloo said:


> Xue Long 2's maintenance work will be done on various locations in the JNCX yards. It will probably spend 1-2 weeks in the dry dock #4 for below water-line hull works, and will be moved to other locations like inside the harbour basin and at the piers at the river bank.
> 
> The submersible deck barge will likely be launched within a few weeks (1-2 weeks?), and will be tested for a short period before commissioning. It will be operational in late May or June.
> 
> If this barge is built for transporting CV-XX/003 modules (very likely case), we will see the aircraft carrier modules in dry dock by mid-Summer.


 
let wait and see..


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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1256916245485518849
What kind of ship or vessel is this? ... I was more focused on the carrier construction site itself that I missed that one on the pier.


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## lcloo

Deino said:


> What kind of ship or vessel is this? ... I was more focused on the carrier construction site itself that I missed that one on the pier.
> 
> View attachment 629525


It is a new large container ship belonged to CMA CGM shipping company.

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## LKJ86

lcloo said:


> It is a new large container ship belonged to CMA CGM shipping company.
> 
> View attachment 629535





LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 627982
> 
> Via @屿屿夏 from Weibo

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## Deino

Would be a major news if true ... allegedly the transport barge has been launched today. Albeit no confirmation yet and the image is still the old one!



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262287069797179392

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262418301151477760

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

China needs 4 heavy carriers in service by 2025.


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## Deino

Austin Powers said:


> China needs 4 heavy carriers in service by 2025.



And well ... yet another completely stupid post! As stupid and impossible like Tu-160s in the IAF and the H-20 in the PAF.

Do you ever think before you post? 

Given the current state of construction, the 003 carrier is about there where 002 was about 18 months before launch and that given that 002 was a much simpler and less complex project.

As such, if transfer of the modules will start only in September it will last at best until March 2022 for completion and after that the trial need to commence ... 

anyway for operational ready super-carriers until 2025 is nothing but a fan-boy's wet-dream.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262418301151477760



The modules will start to enter the dry dock number 4 by September. Most likely 3 main modules for the hull section.

It looks like the empty weight of the Type 003 could even reach 80,000 tons, very staggering for its enormous size.

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## lcloo

The unmanned semi-submerge transportation barge aka Non-self navigating unmanned launching ship.

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## Deino

And yet again an update of the Type 003 aircraft carrier's construction site at the Jiangnan Shipyard. 

(Image via @horobeyo)

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## samsara

From 逆襲 @horobeyo on 24 May:

浮式装置已在新港池码头舾装

风雨棚拆了，露天了，等一波新卫星图就能测量船体长度了

The floating platform has been outfitted at the Xingang (Newport) basin quay.

The canopy [that covered the hull modules of carrier 003] has been demolished. It's out in the open. Wait for a new satellite image to measure the length of the ship.

#JNCX #003






Another photo via 浩汉军事






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264402658154016768

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## ChineseTiger1986

Finally!!!

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Finally!!!




Finally what?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Finally what?



It is about the cooperation between JN and Bohai on a project with very high priority, and it should be none other than the Type 003.

Bohai is the shipyard where all China’s nuclear subs were built, and this also implies that they are now preparing to install the nuclear reactors into the hull of the Type 003.

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## samsara

“渤船集团”微信公众号5月27日的推送，江南造船厂总经理一行去渤船进行交流访问。
一家从未涉及核动力舰艇建造的船厂派出代表团，去访问一家专攻核动力甚至于说把舰艇核动力技术当做看家本领的船厂。再联系当下江南造船厂内某在建大型船舶的建造时间节点，不得不让人浮想联翩：这次的访问难道真的只是一次简单的例行互访吗？还是其中另有隐情？
(2020-05-30)
The WeChat official account of the Bohai Shipping Group was launched in May 27th, and the general manager of Jiangnan Shipyard, Huang Wenfei and delegation went to the Bohai Shipyard for an exchange visit.
A shipyard never involved in nuclear power ship construction sent a delegation to visit a shipyard that specializes in nuclear power and even regards nuclear power technology of ships as its own skill. Then, in connection with the construction time node of a large-scale ship under construction in Jiangnan Shipyard, we have to imagine: is this visit really just a simple routine exchange visit? Or is there something else in it?

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## Deino

samsara said:


> “渤船集团”微信公众号5月27日的推送，江南造船厂总经理一行去渤船进行交流访问。
> 一家从未涉及核动力舰艇建造的船厂派出代表团，去访问一家专攻核动力甚至于说把舰艇核动力技术当做看家本领的船厂。再联系当下江南造船厂内某在建大型船舶的建造时间节点，不得不让人浮想联翩：这次的访问难道真的只是一次简单的例行互访吗？还是其中另有隐情？
> (2020-05-30)
> The WeChat official account of the Bohai Shipping Group was launched in May 27th, and the general manager of Jiangnan Shipyard, Huang Wenfei and delegation went to the Bohai Shipyard for an exchange visit.
> A shipyard never involved in nuclear power ship construction sent a delegation to visit a shipyard that specializes in nuclear power and even regards nuclear power technology of ships as its own skill. Then, in connection with the construction time node of a large-scale ship under construction in Jiangnan Shipyard, we have to imagine: is this visit really just a simple routine exchange visit? Or is there something else in it?




... or in preparation for the Type 004 CVN?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> ... or in preparation for the Type 004 CVN?



The CSSC had already started the cooperation with the CNNC back in January 2017, prior the construction of the Type 003.

http://www.cec.org.cn/yaowenkuaidi/2017-01-23/164174.html


CNNC = provide the nuclear reactor, and the cooperation started in 2017

Bohai shipyard = provide the assistance about the installation of the nuclear reactor, and the cooperation started in 2019

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## aziqbal

So what are we saying 003 will have nuclear power and EMALS ?

that would be a huge risk to commission two new technologies together just look at Ford class


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## ChineseTiger1986

aziqbal said:


> So what are we saying 003 will have nuclear power and EMALS ?
> 
> that would be a huge risk to commission two new technologies together just look at Ford class



Everything has its first time.

Even the conventional carrier with the EMALS is also unprecedented in the history, and perhaps more difficult to achieve than its nuclear counterpart.

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## no smoking

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Everything has its first time.
> 
> Even the conventional carrier with the EMALS is also unprecedented in the history, and perhaps more difficult to achieve than its nuclear counterpart.



Yes, but having 2 critical parts - installing the nuclear power engine on CV and EMALS for first time simultaneously are just too risky for the project and following maintenance.

Let's not be over-optimistic like Indian fanboys


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## samsara

aziqbal said:


> So what are we saying 003 will have nuclear power and EMALS ?
> 
> that would be a huge risk to commission two new technologies together just look at Ford class


So in your way of thinking, if the US failed then no one else can succeed?

Or put it into another line: Only if the US does it right, then it's the correct direction to go???

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## CAPRICORN-88

samsara said:


> So in your way of thinking, if the US failed then no one else can succeed?
> 
> Or put it into another line: Only if the US does it right, then it's the correct direction to go???


If they only try to understand China better.
One should investigate the propulsion system of the Type 055. It is closely guarded state secret. But there are info being leaked online. 
It is medium voltage suggesting IEPS.
China is already in the next level esp. in SSBN. 
We have heard of China innovative shaftless pumpjet. 
Watching... and waiting.

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## aziqbal

samsara said:


> So in your way of thinking, if the US failed then no one else can succeed?
> 
> Or put it into another line: Only if the US does it right, then it's the correct direction to go???




Oh please Can you please stop acting 

China has built how many carriers? So far 1

US has built how many over 80 and over a dozen nuclear powered ones

You got more experience with one than someone who has built over dozen or 80? No definitely no


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## Mohrenn

aziqbal said:


> Oh please Can you please stop acting
> 
> China has built how many carriers? So far 1
> 
> US has built how many over 80 and over a dozen nuclear powered ones
> 
> You got more experience with one than someone who has built over dozen or 80? No definitely no



You have to take into account that the US procurement program is a complete joke and that it's completely corrupted by the defense contractors who juice it like a lemon, plus China has a bigger experience in making huge advancements at once successfully compared to the US. Also, encountering difficulties with the 003 might be a risk China is willing to take if it means the 004 will be built sooner, they might prefer to put the risk on 003 and use it as a technological test bed before refining the design for the 004.

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## Armchair

EMALS have been tested as a separate system and China has been building nuclear propulsion for ages. There is no "great risk" here. Just people who don't understand engineering.

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## ChineseTiger1986

no smoking said:


> Yes, but having 2 critical parts - installing the nuclear power engine on CV and EMALS for first time simultaneously are just too risky for the project and following maintenance.
> 
> Let's not be over-optimistic like Indian fanboys



Not kidding, the EMALS to integrate with the outdated steam boiler propulsion is perhaps a more difficult task for China to achieve than directly building a nuclear one.

This is the realism, and it has nothing to do with the over-optimism.



Mohrenn said:


> You have to take into account that the US procurement program is a complete joke and that it's completely corrupted by the defense contractors who juice it like a lemon, plus China has a bigger experience in making huge advancements at once successfully compared to the US. Also, encountering difficulties with the 003 might be a risk China is willing to take if it means the 004 will be built sooner, they might prefer to put the risk on 003 and use it as a technological test bed before refining the design for the 004.



Spot on, most likely the Type 003 is the first trial, therefore it takes a bit more time.

The following ships will be built faster with more experience, also being more refined.



Armchair said:


> EMALS have been tested as a separate system and China has been building nuclear propulsion for ages. There is no "great risk" here. Just people who don't understand engineering.



Yep, many people have regarded the nuclear propulsion as some kind of alien technology.

In fact, it is not as fancy as many people tend to believe.



aziqbal said:


> Oh please Can you please stop acting
> 
> China has built how many carriers? So far 1
> 
> US has built how many over 80 and over a dozen nuclear powered ones
> 
> You got more experience with one than someone who has built over dozen or 80? No definitely no



But China doesn't have to build every type of the carriers that the US had built in the past, right?

China always builds something that is suitable to its need, it is not about a pissing contest.

The conventional carriers have too much replenishment pressure compared to the nuclear ones, especially when your oversea military bases are very few in number.

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## Armchair

If I were a betting man, I'd bet the new carrier would be in the 80,000 t range.

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## obj 705A

China has a late commer's advantage, back when the US began building CVs, nuclear propulsion was not even present, let alone EMALS, China on the other hand already has EMALS which (if I remember correctly) have been described as being at least as good if not better than that of the US, & China has had nuclear propulsion since the Mao Zedong era (for the submarines), I'm pretty sure those 40 years were enough for China's nuclear propulsion to mature enough for large surface vessels, why reinvent the wheel when you already have all the ingredients (& the money) to make the latest & greatest weapon.
usually when some people talk about Chinese weapons development they say the US took an x number of years (eg:70 years for carriers since WWII) to reach this point, when talking about China what we should do is take those 70 years of American experience & throw them out of the window because they are irrelevant, China has it's own speed of doing things.

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## aziqbal

Mohrenn said:


> You have to take into account that the US procurement program is a complete joke and that it's completely corrupted by the defense contractors who juice it like a lemon, plus China has a bigger experience in making huge advancements at once successfully compared to the US. Also, encountering difficulties with the 003 might be a risk China is willing to take if it means the 004 will be built sooner, they might prefer to put the risk on 003 and use it as a technological test bed before refining the design for the 004.



Oh please sit down

which probably explains why after 14 years and building 8 x LPD China still has more LPD than LCAC, how long have those LCAC been sitting in JNCX more than 22 months and its 10 units collecting dust

have we ever seen a LPD with a full deck of LCAC loaded with vehicles ? have we ever even seen after more than a decade a video of loaded LCAC entering and leaving the well deck? how about VERTREP? how about 4 x Z8 in the hanger ? where is the advancedmemts here ?

China has made some amazing developments and progressed very fast but dont be so childish and dont be blinded by how it actually works in the real world as opposed to this fairy land world you are living in


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## ILC

I think the main load for a Chinese LPD 71 is a *ZBD-05 *amphibious vehicle family instead of LCAC.

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## laser911

aziqbal said:


> Oh please sit down
> 
> which probably explains why after 14 years and building 8 x LPD China still has more LPD than LCAC, how long have those LCAC been sitting in JNCX more than 22 months and its 10 units collecting dust
> 
> have we ever seen a LPD with a full deck of LCAC loaded with vehicles ? have we ever even seen after more than a decade a video of loaded LCAC entering and leaving the well deck? how about VERTREP? how about 4 x Z8 in the hanger ? where is the advancedmemts here ?
> 
> China has made some amazing developments and progressed very fast but dont be so childish and dont be blinded by how it actually works in the real world as opposed to this fairy land world you are living in


The LCAC is a different story, the number is limited by their engines. These engines need to be light weight and powerful which is very similar to adv jet engines. This is one of the weak points of China but nothing to do with CV. The 003 will unlikely be a nuclear powered but it will have EMALS.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Armchair said:


> If I were a betting man, I'd bet the new carrier would be in the 80,000 t range.



Metric tons wise, anything over 80,000 tons will be automatically nuclear powered.

The Kitty Hawk class was the largest conventional carriers ever built, and it displaced less than 80,000 metric tons.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/cv-63-specs.htm

The Type 003 is indeed larger than the Kitty Hawk class.



obj 705A said:


> China has a late commer's advantage, back when the US began building CVs, nuclear propulsion was not even present, let alone EMALS, China on the other hand already has EMALS which (if I remember correctly) have been described as being at least as good if not better than that of the US, & China has had nuclear propulsion since the Mao Zedong era (for the submarines), I'm pretty sure those 40 years were enough for China's nuclear propulsion to mature enough for large surface vessels, why reinvent the wheel when you already have all the ingredients (& the money) to make the latest & greatest weapon.
> usually when some people talk about Chinese weapons development they say the US took an x number of years (eg:70 years for carriers since WWII) to reach this point, when talking about China what we should do is take those 70 years of American experience & throw them out of the window because they are irrelevant, China has it's own speed of doing things.



China's new miniaturized nuclear reactor for the maritime project is comparable to the A1B reactor.

http://www.globalconstructionreview.com/news/china-begin-construction-small-modular-reactor-hai/

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## Mohrenn

aziqbal said:


> Oh please sit down
> 
> which probably explains why after 14 years and building 8 x LPD China still has more LPD than LCAC, how long have those LCAC been sitting in JNCX more than 22 months and its 10 units collecting dust
> 
> have we ever seen a LPD with a full deck of LCAC loaded with vehicles ? have we ever even seen after more than a decade a video of loaded LCAC entering and leaving the well deck? how about VERTREP? how about 4 x Z8 in the hanger ? where is the advancedmemts here ?
> 
> China has made some amazing developments and progressed very fast but dont be so childish and dont be blinded by how it actually works in the real world as opposed to this fairy land world you are living in



You're making a number of implicit assumptions that you're making up just because it suits your narrative, for example you're assuming China gives the same level of importance and ressources to improving its Aircraft Carrier technology than it does to building LCACs. What's important is that China has shown that they're able to manage huge advancements better than the US despite having less experience overall, so your arguments were invalid and you're trying to save them with more invalid arguments.

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## Daniel808

aziqbal said:


> Oh please sit down
> 
> which probably explains why after 14 years and building 8 x LPD China still has more LPD than LCAC, how long have those LCAC been sitting in JNCX more than 22 months and its 10 units collecting dust
> 
> have we ever seen a LPD with a full deck of LCAC loaded with vehicles ? have we ever even seen after more than a decade a video of loaded LCAC entering and leaving the well deck? how about VERTREP? how about 4 x Z8 in the hanger ? where is the advancedmemts here ?
> 
> China has made some amazing developments and progressed very fast but dont be so childish and dont be blinded by how it actually works in the real world as opposed to this fairy land world you are living in



Relax

Its called Priority.

You don't think China cannot mass produce small QC-70 Gas Turbine for Type 726 LCAC, while they can mass produce Heavy R-0110 Powerful Gas Turbine for their Heavy Destroyers and Aircraft Carriers since many years ago, don't you?

*China R-0110 Heavy Powerful Gas Turbine*

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## ChineseTiger1986

Daniel808 said:


> Relax
> 
> Its called Priority.
> 
> You don't think China cannot mass produce small QC-70 Gas Turbine for Type 726 LCAC, while they can mass produce Heavy R-0110 Powerful Gas Turbine for their Heavy Destroyers and Aircraft Carriers since many years ago, don't you?
> 
> *China R-0110 Heavy Powerful Gas Turbine*
> View attachment 638894



The layout of the engine room of the Type 003 shows that the ship will still use the steam turbines.

However, it is unlikely that it will be powered by eight steam boilers, more likely being powered by the twin nuclear reactors.

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## Deino



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## samsara

Deino, do you have any idea what's the remote/sat pic telling indeed?  I wonder who can really tell from this single pic alone angel:

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## Deino

samsara said:


> Deino, do you have any idea what's the remote/sat pic telling indeed?  I wonder who can really tell from this single pic alone angel:




Good question ... for me this telly us only that the barge is in the basin and being prepared for action (allegedly later this year from September on) and that I cannot identify any progress on the ship itself.

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## obj 705A

going back to the issue of what kind of propulsion it will have, let us assume that it will have a nuclear reactor (I realize we don't really have much evidence so the chances of it being either conventional or nuclear are 50/50) so what reactor will it use? the reactor which @ChineseTiger1986 mentioned in his post (the ACP 100) will only finish construction in 2025, at least this is what is in the link, or did I understand it completely the wrong way?
if the ACP 100 is (I assume) not ready (again correct me if I'm mistaken) may be they could use this one in a similar way to what the US did with the Enterprise. 
https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/mil...ld-30000-tonne-nuclear-powered-ship-described


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## ChineseTiger1986

obj 705A said:


> going back to the issue of what kind of propulsion it will have, let us assume that it will have a nuclear reactor (I realize we don't really have much evidence so the chances of it being either conventional or nuclear are 50/50) so what reactor will it use? the reactor which @ChineseTiger1986 mentioned in his post (the ACP 100) will only finish construction in 2025, at least this is what is in the link, or did I understand it completely the wrong way?
> if the ACP 100 is (I assume) not ready (again correct me if I'm mistaken) may be they could use this one in a similar way to what the US did with the Enterprise.
> https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/mil...ld-30000-tonne-nuclear-powered-ship-described



The floating nuclear power plant with the ACP100 is expecting to be operational by 2025.

https://world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/December-construction-start-for-Chinese-SMR

Back in 2018, the CSIC also hinted that China's first CVN will be operational by 2025.

So the Type 003 is the only option for that time frame.

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## obj 705A

so I checked the timeline of development & construction of America's A1B reactor & the Ford CVN just for reference, the development of the A1B apparently began in 1998 & the first steel cut for the Ford was in 2005 so an interval of 7 years, the ACP 100 began development in 2010 (obviously not sure whether this is the exact same stage of development as the A1B) & the type 003's first steel cut was perhaps in 2017 or 2018? (7 or 8 years interval between the reactor development & first steel cut) so any way the timelines for the Chinese & American reactors/carriers are very comparable.

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## ChineseTiger1986

obj 705A said:


> so I checked the timeline of development & construction of America's A1B reactor & the Ford CVN just for reference, the development of the A1B apparently began in 1998 & the first steel cut for the Ford was in 2005 so an interval of 7 years, the ACP 100 began development in 2010 (obviously not sure whether this is the exact same stage of development as the A1B) & the type 003's first steel cut was perhaps in 2017 or 2018? (7 or 8 years interval between the reactor development & first steel cut) so any way the timelines for the Chinese & American reactors/carriers are very comparable.



The ACP100 reactor has most likely been developed parallelly for both civilian and military sector.

The shipyard has been officially signed the contract with China National Nuclear Corporation back in January 2017.

And the construction of the Type 003 was started subsequently.

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## lcloo

The disappearing act! waiting for confirmation.

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## Deino

Hmmm...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1269917952276488192
Here another one ...


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## lcloo

The transport barge is still there at the new harbour basin. So, they used land transporter to move the modules to dry dock. The barge may be used to transport larger module.

So, the attention now shall be on dry dock #4.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1269847696355049475

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## Deino

Seems as if the modules reappeared at the area behind drydock no. 4. here marked green in this old image.

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## Deino

Sorry for the confusion with that old image showing only a huge green hand-made dot.

This should explain a bit better ...

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## lcloo

This is how you move a piece of 2,000 tons fabricated metal.

Note: This is Not a module of aircraft carrier.

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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Sorry for the confusion with that old image showing only a huge green hand-made dot.
> 
> This should explain a bit better ...
> 
> View attachment 639914







Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 639950
> 
> Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo




Indeed... the Type 003 carrier was found....

(Images via @rookie_bird_)

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## LKJ86

Via @西葛西造舰军事CG from Weibo

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## ChineseTiger1986

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 640241
> 
> Via @西葛西造舰军事CG from Weibo



The island structure is wrong in this CG.

The island of the Type 003 should be moving at the rear like the CVN-78 because its flight control bridge is moving in the front position of the structure.








The flight control bridge of the Type 002 is in the rear position of the structure, because the entire island structure is located at the middle.

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## Deino

This most recent image showing the Type 003 aircraft carrier construction site at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai on 11th June ... and indeed, the carrier is gone.
(Image via @lqy99021608)

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## IblinI

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 640241
> 
> Via @西葛西造舰军事CG from Weibo


Can't wait to see it in real life.

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## ozranger

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The island structure is wrong in this CG.
> 
> The island of the Type 003 should be moving at the rear like the CVN-78 because its flight control bridge is moving in the front position of the structure.
> 
> View attachment 640279
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The flight control bridge of the Type 002 is in the rear position of the structure, because the entire island structure is located at the middle.
> 
> View attachment 640280


This is an excellent observation with some significant implication.

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## ChineseTiger1986

ozranger said:


> This is an excellent observation with some significant implication.



Because the crews from the flight control room need a perfect angle to observe the landing aircrafts.

When the observation room has moved forward, then the entire structure has to move backward.

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## clibra

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Everything has its first time.
> 
> Even the conventional carrier with the EMALS is also unprecedented in the history, and perhaps more difficult to achieve than its nuclear counterpart.



IMHO, the 003 carrier which is building in JN is conventional power with EMALS, 80k tonnage, total number will be 4.
The 004 carrier will be nuclear power with EMALS, 100k tonnage, total number will be 4~6.

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## lcloo

Totally cleared out.

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## ILC

So the barge wasn't needed to transport carrier's modules?


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## ChineseTiger1986

clibra said:


> IMHO, the 003 carrier which is building in JN is conventional power with EMALS, 80k tonnage, total number will be 4.
> The 004 carrier will be nuclear power with EMALS, 100k tonnage, total number will be 4~6.



Anything over 80k tons will be nuclear powered.

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## english_man

Is this some sort of giant magic trick?........ie where are the modules now, can we see them at their new location?


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## ChineseTiger1986

english_man said:


> Is this some sort of giant magic trick?........ie where are the modules now, can we see them at their new location?



The modules are now staying near the dry dock No. 4.


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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The modules are now staying near the dry dock No. 4.




Allegedly taken near the #4 dry dock at the Jiangnan Shipyard it is said to show the Type 003 carrier modules.
Interesting if true this is painted and it shows already the overhanging parts extending for the flight deck, which we haven't seen in previous images.

(Image via 风吹罩罩飞 at the cjdby-forum)

https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2628440-1-1.html

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1273856355032543234

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1273856355032543234



This is the demo module from 2013.

And I think the Type 003 will likely suddenly appear from nowhere like the Type 075.

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## Armchair

Speculation here - I think what this implies is that China is not building just 1 aircraft carrier. They have plans for building more and by shifting this one, they can start work on the next one here.

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## Deino

Armchair said:


> Speculation here - I think what this implies is that China is not building just 1 aircraft carrier. They have plans for building more and by shifting this one, they can start work on the next one here.




Again as in the J-35 thread: You are over-hyping and mis-reading a single image and misinterpret things that are unlikely to be drawn as a conclusion from that single image even if in the end you are likely correct.

But the assumption that the PLAN might get more than one carrier and eventually already another one besides 003 is in the works might be correct, but it can surely not drawn as a conclusion based on a faked image showing a demo-module from 2013 as a new carrier or a grainy sketch of a new fighter and then say it will surely have TCV-nozzles.


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## Armchair

Deino said:


> Again as in the J-35 thread: You are over-hyping and mis-reading a single image and misinterpret things that are unlikely to be drawn as a conclusion from that single image even if in the end you are likely correct.
> 
> But the assumption that the PLAN might get more than one carrier and eventually already another one besides 003 is in the works might be correct, but it can surely not drawn as a conclusion based on a faked image showing a demo-module from 2013 as a new carrier or a grainy sketch of a new fighter and then say it will surely have TCV-nozzles.



That is your perception. I think you are underwhelming in your analysis and I could also retort in similar vein, as you have, but prefer to be polite.


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## Deino

Armchair said:


> That is your perception. I think you are underwhelming in your analysis and I could also retort in similar vein, as you have, but prefer to be polite.



No problem if you disagree and explain - like me - why you think I'm wrong. Also IMO underwhelming is always safer than overwhelming then then being disappointed or embarrassed; but that's most likely a personal taste.

Otherwise I still don't get your conclusion, why:

- an image of a demo-module should be a hint for another carrier?
- a crude sketch of a new fighter should be a conclusive evidence it might use TVC?


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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275704282340298752

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## lcloo

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275704282340298752


The notice mentioned the launch of civilian ship today but there is no mention of CV-XX/003.

We will know in a few days' time, if there is photo coming out.

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> The notice mentioned the launch of civilian ship today but there is no mention of CV-XX/003.
> 
> We will know in a few days' time, if there is photo coming out.




That'S for sure there no mention of 003, but if this civil vessel is indeed the one occupying dry dock no. 4 it will be interesting to see if they start with the carrier construction or if yet another civil project will be next... but yes, we'll see in a few days.


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## Deino

And so it begins: 

As it seems this is the first confirmed image of one of the Type 003 aircraft carrier's mega-modules in dry dock no. 4 at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai. (image via @微博铁幕君SSS at weibo）

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## waja2000

Deino said:


> And so it begins:



let count start from 1/7, see how long 003 will launch. wish can be done in 1 years

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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Anything over 80k tons will be nuclear powered.



u can not possibly be serious.


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## Figaro

Deino said:


> And so it begins:
> 
> As it seems this is the first confirmed image of one of the Type 003 aircraft carrier's mega-modules in dry dock no. 4 at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai. (image via @微博铁幕君SSS at weibo）
> 
> View attachment 646699


What level of completion do you think the 003 is using the 002 construction as a reference? I'm estimating around mid-2015 level of 002 completion for the current 003.

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## lcloo

Figaro said:


> What level of completion do you think the 003 is using the 002 construction as a reference? I'm estimating around mid-2015 level of 002 completion for the current 003.



My guess is 003 will be able to be launched around middle of next year since most modules have been fabricated, and as such the main works now is to assemble the modules by welding and installation of machinery. I am expecting some fast pace work from now onwards.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Niko Zhang said:


> u can not possibly be serious.



Then tell me, which conventional carrier in the history has displaced over 80,000 metric tons?

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## ChineseTiger1986

lcloo said:


> My guess is 003 will be able to be launched around middle of next year since most modules have been fabricated, and as such the main works now is to assemble the modules by welding and installation of machinery. I am expecting some fast pace work from now onwards.



The launch date of June 28th 2021 sounds like a reasonable estimation, since it will be approaching the 100th anniversary of the CPC.

Then the sea trial is expected to be around Aug-Sept 2022, and the commission ceremony to be held in December 26th 2023.

Eventually, the ship should be combat ready by the end of 2024 or early 2025.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Anything over 80k tons will be nuclear powered.


What nuclear reactor do you envision for the 003 carrier then?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> What nuclear reactor do you envision for the 003 carrier then?



ACP100

I think I have mentioned this before.

It is a quite mature technology, and less risky than to develop a whole new steam boiler system that powers a ship that outweighs the Kitty Hawk class by 20,000 metric tons.

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## samsara

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> ACP100
> 
> I think I have mentioned this before.
> 
> It is a quite mature technology, and less risky than to develop a whole new steam boiler system that powers a ship that outweighs the Kitty Hawk class by 20,000 metric tons.


Btw, the current prevailing, even overwhelming opinion is the 003 will still be a CV instead of a CVN. It applies in this forum, and it's even more tilted in the neighbour one, SDF. Thus have no wonder that most people will have heavy scepticism on your CVN notion!

I choose to let it be an opened idea, will only cease to do that when there is undeniable fact about the actual decision (be made known to the public). Nonetheless I appreciate your firmness to voice differently, even though it may be a lone voice in the desert. Time will reveal, and it won't be long, just in matter of months!

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> Btw, the current prevailing, even overwhelming opinion is the 003 will still be a CV instead of a CVN. It applies in this forum, and it's even more tilted in the neighbour one, SDF. Thus have no wonder that most people will have heavy scepticism on your CVN notion!
> 
> I choose to let it be an opened idea, will only cease to do that when there is undeniable fact about the actual decision (be made known to the public). Nonetheless I appreciate your firmness to voice differently, even though it may be a lone voice in the desert. Time will reveal, and it won't be long, just in matter of months!


Yes but ChineseTiger also said the 003 will use a EM catapult even at a time when everyone was claiming a steam catapult. It is a wait and see game ... never exclude anything 100%!

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## ChineseTiger1986

samsara said:


> Btw, the current prevailing, even overwhelming opinion is the 003 will still be a CV instead of a CVN. It applies in this forum, and it's even more tilted in the neighbour one, SDF. Thus have no wonder that most people will have heavy scepticism on your CVN notion!
> 
> I choose to let it be an opened idea, will only cease to do that when there is undeniable fact about the actual decision (be made known to the public). Nonetheless I appreciate your firmness to voice differently, even though it may be a lone voice in the desert. Time will reveal, and it won't be long, just in matter of months!



I don't care about the opinions of the others.

I have my own critical thinking and to perceive what type of assessment is more logical and reasonable.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> Yes but ChineseTiger also said the 003 will use a EM catapult even at a time when everyone was claiming a steam catapult. It is a wait and see game ... never exclude anything 100%!



In order to power the Type 003, they would need to re-design a brand new steam boiler system that would be much more time consuming than the nuclear powered design.

China now has very few ships that use the steam boilers. Except the Type 001/002, all destroyers that use the steam boilers are all outdated, and the continuation of the same class of ships will not be built anymore.

To re-design a brand new steam boiler system just for 1-2 carriers will be a nightmare for the maintenance, and the cost can never be covered. It is very unlikely for the PLAN to follow that path.

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## Deino

Some minor news from the construction site ... some work is going on under these new movable shelters;

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Some minor news from the construction site ... some work is going on under these new movable shelters;
> 
> View attachment 647423



These new modules could belong to the parts above the waterline to the flight deck.

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> Some minor news from the construction site ... some work is going on under these new movable shelters;
> 
> View attachment 647423


I wish the picture was higher resolution


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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Then tell me, which conventional carrier in the history has displaced over 80,000 metric tons?



Oh I’m sorry, but there are some. 4 of the Kitty Hawk class and 4 of Forrestal Class. 8 of them in total, all have a displacement of more than 80k tons, with CONVENTIONAL power.


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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> In order to power the Type 003, they would need to re-design a brand new steam boiler system that would be much more time consuming than the nuclear powered design.
> 
> China now has very few ships that use the steam boilers. Except the Type 001/002, all destroyers that use the steam boilers are all outdated, and the continuation of the same class of ships will not be built anymore.
> 
> To re-design a brand new steam boiler system just for 1-2 carriers will be a nightmare for the maintenance, and the cost can never be covered. It is very unlikely for the PLAN to follow that path.



Oh, so u mean those 956 destroyers are outdated? What about 051B? And 051C? Do u mean these ships are outdated?


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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> ACP100
> 
> I think I have mentioned this before.
> 
> It is a quite mature technology, and less risky than to develop a whole new steam boiler system that powers a ship that outweighs the Kitty Hawk class by 20,000 metric tons.



And now u r claiming 003 is a ship bigger than Nimitz class, almost as big as the Ford class. Is this what u mean?


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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## Deino

are these modules too slightly right besides these movable shelters?

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## Deino

Deino said:


> are these modules too slightly right besides these movable shelters?
> 
> View attachment 647573
> View attachment 647574




After a second look they are indeed there since some time and also they look more like movable halls/shelters, albeit smaller than the ones, which hide the carrier.

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## lcloo

May be they are here, at the staging yard beside the dry dock. Also inside the two larger white mobile shelters just to the North.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Niko Zhang said:


> Oh I’m sorry, but there are some. 4 of the Kitty Hawk class and 4 of Forrestal Class. 8 of them in total, all have a displacement of more than 80k tons, with CONVENTIONAL power.



Metric tons wise, the Kitty Hawk class weighed about 75,000 metric tons with the full load tonnage.

https://www.navy.mil/navydata/ships/carriers/histories/cv64-constellation/cv64-constellation.html

Those 80,000+ tons figures were in fact based on the us short tons.

So no conventional carrier in the history has weighed over 80,000 metric tons.

The earliest Nimitz class ships weigh around 88,000 metric tons, only the late ships of this class have increased its tonnage to over 95,000 metric tons with the more reinforced Kevlar armor and increased draft.

https://allhands.navy.mil/Features/Ford



Niko Zhang said:


> Oh, so u mean those 956 destroyers are outdated? What about 051B? And 051C? Do u mean these ships are outdated?



They are indeed outdated, China's current mainstream destroyers are all gas turbines, no more steam turbines powered by the steam boilers.



Niko Zhang said:


> And now u r claiming 003 is a ship bigger than Nimitz class, almost as big as the Ford class. Is this what u mean?



For now, it is not certain that the Type 003 can outweigh the CVN-78, but to outweigh the CVN-68 most likely yes.

Because based on the satellite images, we can be sure the waterline of the Type 003 is somewhat between 310 to 320 meters. And the waterline for the Nimitz/Ford class is around 317 meters.

If the waterline length of the Type 003 is around 310 meters, then it should weigh around 95,000 metric tons at full load. It could be a tad shorter than the CVN-68, but with more reinforced armor, wider flight deck, and increased draft.

If the waterline length is around 315 meters, then it is going to weigh over 100,000 metric tons for sure, it is about the same as the CVN-78.

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## OBLiTeRate TrumpTurd

Niko Zhang said:


> And now u r claiming 003 is a ship bigger than Nimitz class, almost as big as the Ford class. Is this what u mean?



Why are you so pessimistic and behaving like a SCIENCETIFIC weakling ??

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## Figaro

OBLiTeRate TrumpTurd said:


> Why are you so pessimistic and behaving like a SCIENCETIFIC weakling ??


To be fair I didn't know the 003 was larger than the Nimitz. I always assumed it was in the Kitty Hawk size range, maybe slightly larger?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> To be fair I didn't know the 003 was larger than the Nimitz. I always assumed it was in the Kitty Hawk size range, maybe slightly larger?



waterline length
Nimitz/Ford: 317 meters
Kitty Hawk: 300 meters
Type 003: 310 - 320 meters

waterline width
Nimitz/Ford: 40.8 meters
Kitty Hawk: 39.6 meters
Type 003: 40.5 - 41 meters

The Type 003 is a supercarrier designed in the 21st century with more reinforced armor, bigger flight deck, more draft than the CVN-68. So most likely heavier.

As compared to the CVN-78, not sure yet, and need more observation until the ship takes into shape.



OBLiTeRate TrumpTurd said:


> Why are you so pessimistic and behaving like a SCIENCETIFIC weakling ??



The answer will be available by the end of this year.

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## Figaro

OBLiTeRate TrumpTurd said:


> I am always ANGRY ... that there are so many Chinese Intellectual WEAKLING from CHN who
> have been brainwashed by the western / Murican, and always use a double standard to judge the Murican Scientific achievement and double standard to measure Murican Global Criminal behaviors for the last 200 years.
> 
> And, these Chinese Intellectual WEAKLING always believe the Tank Man myth.
> 
> Proof:
> Just quickly check this video ~ before YouTube / Google remove it:
> 
> *1989 Tank Man myth*: ( u can jump ahead to time = 07:30 )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ===
> 
> Back to main topic.


What does this have to do with the 003 carrier?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Here is the length of the waterline of the CVN-79 without the bulbous bow.

293 meters








The initial estimation for the Type 003 is around 287 meters, but the modules have not been wielded together yet, so it needs further observation.






However, a waterline of 310 meters with the bulbous bow is a quite safe bet for now.

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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Here is the length of the waterline of the CVN-79 without the bulbous bow.
> 
> 293 meters
> View attachment 647939
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The initial estimation for the Type 003 is around 287 meters, but the modules have not been wielded together yet, so it needs further observation.
> View attachment 647940
> 
> 
> 
> However, a waterline of 310 meters with the bulbous bow is a quite safe bet for now.



兄弟啊，要丢人现眼可以，别来这里行不行？所有的图我都截好了，以后用事实来戳破你的这个国际笑话吧。就像之前那些说买苏35就剁吊的人一样。


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## Niko Zhang

Figaro said:


> To be fair I didn't know the 003 was larger than the Nimitz. I always assumed it was in the Kitty Hawk size range, maybe slightly larger?



It will be a bit smaller than Kitty Hawk. And, don’t trust ANYONE when it comes to this topic, including me. In time u will know the true answer.


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## Figaro

Niko Zhang said:


> It will be a bit smaller than Kitty Hawk. And, don’t trust ANYONE when it comes to this topic, including me. In time u will know the true answer.


We will know by this fall


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## Niko Zhang

Figaro said:


> We will know by this fall



In time, everything will be known, every detail. So I won’t say a single word about this future thing. And I do suggest u do the same. No gossip worth listening.


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## Figaro

Niko Zhang said:


> In time, everything will be known, every detail. So I won’t say a single word about this future thing. And I do suggest u do the same. No gossip worth listening.


This is all about speculation. Me, you, and @ChineseTiger1986 are all speculating the features of the 003. If there wasn't speculation, why would we even have a forum at all? No one wants to wait to talk about something until that something has been unveiled ... that would be pointless.

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## Niko Zhang

Figaro said:


> This is all about speculation. Me, you, and @ChineseTiger1986 are all speculating the features of the 003. If there wasn't speculation, why would we even have a forum at all? No one wants to wait to talk about something until that something has been unveiled ... that would be pointless.



Speculation doesn’t equal to non-sense.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Niko Zhang said:


> It will be a bit smaller than Kitty Hawk. And, don’t trust ANYONE when it comes to this topic, including me. In time u will know the true answer.



lol, show me the proof why it is smaller than the 75,000 tons Kitty Hawk.

I want the concrete evidence, not the blind worship from fzgfzy, since that guy has no credibility at all.



Niko Zhang said:


> Speculation doesn’t equal to non-sense.



Dude, your knowledge about the aircraft carrier is even poorer than me.

What is the source of your confidence to say that I am spewing the nonsense？

When there was no trace of the Type 003, of course too much baseless speculation would be the nonsense.

But now many characteristics of the Type 003 are available with the satellite images, anyone with the critical thinking skills can start to analyze by themselves, not just blindly follow the words from these so-called Internet big shrimps.

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## samsara

From Dante80 /SDF:

I'll be surprised if 003 *doesn't* have an EMALS. At least, almost all info and leaks we currently have (and have had during the last years) point to it.

I vaguely remember a specific leak - for example - from one of the people that were working on a *steam catapult* system for the new carriers, saying that their work was verified, scheduled for integration to the next carrier and then *cancelled* due to the carrier changing to an EMALS. IIRC, EMALS integration was also one of the main reasons for 003 coming much later into existence than it was originally expected or rumored.

~~~~~~~~~~

Few interesting things from the passage IMO:

• I haven't realized there's any info/discussion at PDF of "leak" on the steam catapult system being verified then cancelled due to switching to EMALS.

• And consequently this catapult issue has been causing delay to 003.
Otherwise this 3rd carrier should have come out earlier. I have the distant feeling of some delay on the 003 but my memory has faded out what's the possible cause. How time elapses…

• How many here still think that 003 will stick to the older system: steam catapult?

A poll querying this matter will be fascinating, incl the power system. We may never have chance again for this kind of query after the 003 

Could possibly be a Poll of Civilization, not just a lifetime poll!!

Something like:

What do you predict of the 003:
a) Steam catapult + Coventional power
b) Steam catapult + Nuclear power
c) EMALS + Coventional power
d) EMALS + Nuclear power
e) None of above

May we have a poll like this at PDF? 

Established early then opened for a couple of weeks before things become obvious and pose no more fun to guess.

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## ChineseTiger1986

d > c = b > a > e


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## Figaro

samsara said:


> From Dante80 /SDF:
> 
> I'll be surprised if 003 *doesn't* have an EMALS. At least, almost all info and leaks we currently have (and have had during the last years) point to it.
> 
> I vaguely remember a specific leak - for example - from one of the people that were working on a *steam catapult* system for the new carriers, saying that their work was verified, scheduled for integration to the next carrier and then *cancelled* due to the carrier changing to an EMALS. IIRC, EMALS integration was also one of the main reasons for 003 coming much later into existence than it was originally expected or rumored.
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> Few interesting things from the passage IMO:
> 
> • I haven't realized there's any info/discussion at PDF of "leak" on the steam catapult system being verified then cancelled due to switching to EMALS.
> 
> • And consequently this catapult issue has been causing delay to 003.
> Otherwise this 3rd carrier should have come out earlier. I have the distant feeling of some delay on the 003 but my memory has faded out what's the possible cause. How time elapses…
> 
> • How many here still think that 003 will stick to the older system: steam catapult?
> 
> A poll querying this matter will be fascinating, incl the power system. We may never have chance again for this kind of query after the 003
> 
> A Poll of Civilization, not just a lifetime poll!!
> 
> Something like:
> a) Steam catapult + Coventional power
> b) Steam catapult + Nuclear power
> c) EMALS + Coventional power
> d) EMALS + Nuclear power
> e) None of above
> 
> May we have a poll like this at PDF?
> 
> Established early then opened for a couple of weeks before things become obvious and pose no more fun to guess.


It was already confirmed back in 2016 or 2017 that the 003 will be equipped with EM catapults. Why would any sensible person think otherwise? The only question that remains the propulsion.


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## samsara

Figaro said:


> It was already confirmed back in 2016 or 2017 that the 003 will be equipped with EM catapults. Why would *any sensible* person think otherwise? The only question that remains the propulsion.


… yet we still noted an "Elite" class —the specialist of "list maker", contribute least, good for asking this and that in irritating fashion most of the time— asked such question which the poster indeed addressed by above


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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> lol, show me the proof why it is smaller than the 75,000 tons Kitty Hawk.
> 
> I want the concrete evidence, not the blind worship from fzgfzy, since that guy has no credibility at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, your knowledge about the aircraft carrier is even poorer than me.
> 
> What is the source of your confidence to say that I am spewing the nonsense？
> 
> When there was no trace of the Type 003, of course too much baseless speculation would be the nonsense.
> 
> But now many characteristics of the Type 003 are available with the satellite images, anyone with the critical thinking skills can start to analyze by themselves, not just blindly follow the words from these so-called Internet big shrimps.



Certainly there is no point to argue with your nonsense since u have even denied facts already. I do have some speculations, but I prefer to hit u with the ship itself when she sails. Oh, and don’t you worry, I got your word screenshotted.

WE WILL WAIT AND SEE.


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## obj 705A

Niko Zhang said:


> u have even denied facts already.



mind sharing these "facts" with us regarding the type 003's size when compared to the Kitty Hawk? ChineseTiger used satalite measurments as proof that it is wider and longer than Kitty Hawk, ofcourse the length may change once the modules are welded together but for now the length measurments say it's longer than Kitty hawk, if you have evidence that suggest otherwise than at least share it with us.

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## Niko Zhang

obj 705A said:


> mind sharing these "facts" with us regarding the type 003's size when compared to the Kitty Hawk? ChineseTiger used satalite measurments as proof that it is wider and longer than Kitty Hawk, ofcourse the length may change once the modules are welded together but for now the length measurments say it's longer than Kitty hawk, if you have evidence that suggest otherwise than at least share it with us.



The fact I was talking about is:

1, Those 956, 051B, 051C are quite useful. One 956E was upgraded recently, and there is another one under modification. 051B was also upgraded couple years back. So calling these ships “outdated” is wrong. What is a outdated ship like for PLAN? Ships like those 051 and 053H1. Otherwise I will just say all the ships except 055 are outdated.

2, He refuse to admit that Kitty Hawk class and Forrestal class are convention al carrier that are more than 80k tons. Indeed he quoted a source but should u spend simply 10 more minutes u will find out his source is highly questionable.


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## obj 705A

Niko Zhang said:


> 2, He refuse to admit that Kitty Hawk class and Forrestal class are convention al carrier that are more than 80k tons. Indeed he quoted a source but should u spend simply 10 more minutes u will find out his source is highly questionable.



so I went to check the dimensions of Kitty hawk on the official website of the US navy, there is no URL link to the USS Kitty Hawk but there is a link to the USS Constelation, I suppose they are both exactly the same since they are both Kitty Hawk class.

displacement: 82,538 tons (74,877 metric tons) full load
length: 1,073 feet (327 meters).
beam: 130 feet (39.62 meters); extreme width: 282 feet (85.95 meters)
draft: 39 feet (11.89 meters)

https://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=69

Edit: I haven't noticed it before but the source that ChineseTiger used is the exact same one as mine which is the official website of the US navy so I have no idea why Niko Zhang described it as a "highly questionable" source.

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## Niko Zhang

obj 705A said:


> so I went to check the dimensions of Kitty hawk on the official website of the US navy, there is no URL link to the USS Kitty Hawk but there is a link to the USS Constelation, I suppose they are both exactly the same since they are both Kitty Hawk class.
> 
> displacement: 82,538 tons (74,877 metric tons) full load
> length: 1,073 feet (327 meters).
> beam: 130 feet (39.62 meters); extreme width: 282 feet (85.95 meters)
> draft: 39 feet (11.89 meters)
> 
> https://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=69
> 
> Edit: I haven't noticed it before but the source that ChineseTiger used is the exact same one as mine which is the official website of the US navy so I have no idea why Niko Zhang described it as a "highly questionable" source.



So what about JFK and USS America? And also, a whole bunch of other reliable source show that the displacement of USS Constellation is not the one u quote. So I will say maybe, just maybe not the whole class is more than 80k. But JFK is surely one.


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## Deino

*Guys ... @Niko Zhang, @obj 705A & @ChineseTiger1986, please don't get angry with each other.
IMO there are arguments that favour the one and the other - aka opposite - side and at least I feel myself not in the position to decide what's the more likely option.

As such, let us enjoy the fun of controversial discussion and wait who's wrong and who's right!*

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## ChineseTiger1986

Niko Zhang said:


> So what about JFK and USS America? And also, a whole bunch of other reliable source show that the displacement of USS Constellation is not the one u quote. So I will say maybe, just maybe not the whole class is more than 80k. But JFK is surely one.



The USS Reagan weighs 10,000 metric tons more than the USS Nimitz, because it has increased draft and more reinforced Kevlar armor.

The USS America and JFK were pretty much same as the USS Constellation.

The 82,000 tons also means short tons for the JFK.

https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/cv-67.htm

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## ChineseTiger1986

Niko Zhang said:


> The fact I was talking about is:
> 
> 1, Those 956, 051B, 051C are quite useful. One 956E was upgraded recently, and there is another one under modification. 051B was also upgraded couple years back. So calling these ships “outdated” is wrong. What is a outdated ship like for PLAN? Ships like those 051 and 053H1. Otherwise I will just say all the ships except 055 are outdated.
> 
> 2, He refuse to admit that Kitty Hawk class and Forrestal class are convention al carrier that are more than 80k tons. Indeed he quoted a source but should u spend simply 10 more minutes u will find out his source is highly questionable.



1. China won't build any destroyer with the steam boilers, that's a fact.

2. Those 80,000+ metric tons Kitty Hawk simply never existed in the history. In order to reach that displacement, its block coefficient had to be as high as the CVN-78, a modern 21st century supercarrier with much more reinforced structure and design.

Give you an idea how fat and robust the Ford class is compared to the Nimitz class and other Cold War supercarriers.

No way that the Nimitz class or other Cold War supercarriers can have a comparable block coefficient to the Ford class.

And the most accurate figure of the full load displacement given by the shipyard is 99,201 long tons.

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## ChineseTiger1986

obj 705A said:


> so I went to check the dimensions of Kitty hawk on the official website of the US navy, there is no URL link to the USS Kitty Hawk but there is a link to the USS Constelation, I suppose they are both exactly the same since they are both Kitty Hawk class.
> 
> displacement: 82,538 tons (74,877 metric tons) full load
> length: 1,073 feet (327 meters).
> beam: 130 feet (39.62 meters); extreme width: 282 feet (85.95 meters)
> draft: 39 feet (11.89 meters)
> 
> https://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=69
> 
> Edit: I haven't noticed it before but the source that ChineseTiger used is the exact same one as mine which is the official website of the US navy so I have no idea why Niko Zhang described it as a "highly questionable" source.



According to the USN, the Nimitz class only weighs 87,996.9 metric tons at full load, but this only represents the earliest three ships from CVN-68 to CVN-70. So it is impossible for the Kitty Hawk class to weigh over 80,000 metric considered it was significantly smaller than the CVN-68 with less reinforced armor.

The latest Nimitz class like the CVN-76 weighs about 98,900 metric tons according to its homeport of Yokusuka, since all ships being stationed there have to register its full load tonnage to the local authority.

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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> 1. China won't build any destroyer with the steam boilers, that's a fact.
> 
> 2. Those 80,000+ metric tons Kitty Hawk simply never existed in the history. In order to reach that displacement, its block coefficient had to be as high as the CVN-78, a modern 21st century supercarrier with much more reinforced structure and design.
> 
> Give you an idea how fat and robust the Ford class is compared to the Nimitz class and other Cold War supercarriers.
> 
> No way that the Nimitz class or other Cold War supercarriers can have a comparable block coefficient to the Ford class.
> 
> And the most accurate figure of the full load displacement given by the shipyard is 99,201 long tons.
> 
> View attachment 648925
> 
> 
> View attachment 648926



1, ture. No more steam turbine engine DDG will ever be built for PLAN. BUT like I said, those ships I mentioned are NOT outdated.

2. You really don’t understand what I say, yes? I will keep repeat what I say till u understand. I said there are conventional carrier more than 80k tons, such as Kitty Hawk class and Forrestal class. PROVE ME WRONG. Do I have to remind u that there are 8 ships I’m talking about? you kept repeating USS Constellation. I have told u to check out JFK. Come on, get onto it.


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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The USS Reagan weighs 10,000 metric tons more than the USS Nimitz, because it has increased draft and more reinforced Kevlar armor.
> 
> The USS America and JFK were pretty much same as the USS Constellation.
> 
> The 82,000 tons also means short tons for the JFK.
> 
> https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/cv-67.htm



Ah, see, this is where u MADE THINGS UP. On that site, there is NO single piece saying it’s short tons. It said tons. You are wasting time here come on. 

Secondly, I can see that u really lack some understanding of the things u r talking about. It is well-known that JFK as a Kitty Hawk class CV, is quite different than others due to the new design and modifications. Just like those later built Nimitz.


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## Niko Zhang

Deino said:


> *Guys ... @Niko Zhang, @obj 705A & @ChineseTiger1986, please don't get angry with each other.
> IMO there are arguments that favour the one and the other - aka opposite - side and at least I feel myself not in the position to decide what's the more likely option.
> 
> As such, let us enjoy the fun of controversial discussion and wait who's wrong and who's right!*



I agree. I have no interest on talking about 003 anymore. I will stick with things that have already happened. It will make the conversation easier at least.


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## lcloo

Satellite photo dated 2020-07-07 from 卫星图像发烧员 Weibo. The dry dock is still empty except Xuelong II Artic exploring ship for maintenance work.

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## samsara

Niko Zhang said:


> Ah, see, this is where u MADE THINGS UP. On that site, there is NO single piece saying it’s short tons. It said tons. You are wasting time here come on.
> 
> Secondly, I can see that u really lack some understanding of the things u r talking about. It is well-known that JFK as a Kitty Hawk class CV, is quite different than others due to the new design and modifications. Just like those later built Nimitz.


Btw for the case of USA, please pay attention to the terms used there:

*Short Ton - Ton vs Tonne - Metric Ton*

*In the USA, a short ton is usually known simply as a "ton", without distinguishing it from the tonne* (1,000 kilograms), known there as the "*metric ton*"; while the *short ton *or simply "*ton*" (as used in the US references) actually equals to 907.18474 kilograms.

Just be aware of the proper unit terms used specifically in that country.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Niko Zhang said:


> 1, ture. No more steam turbine engine DDG will ever be built for PLAN. BUT like I said, those ships I mentioned are NOT outdated.
> 
> 2. You really don’t understand what I say, yes? I will keep repeat what I say till u understand. I said there are conventional carrier more than 80k tons, such as Kitty Hawk class and Forrestal class. PROVE ME WRONG. Do I have to remind u that there are 8 ships I’m talking about? you kept repeating USS Constellation. I have told u to check out JFK. Come on, get onto it.



There is no proof that the old JFK had a significant increase of tonnage over the previous Kitty Hawk class ships except with a modified island structure.

The CVN-68 is only 88,000 metric tons, and it is about 12,000 metric tons lighter than the CVN-78 despite having the same length and beam width.

The old JFK is significantly smaller than the CVN-68, and it was also skinnier and being less armored. There is no way it can be only a couple thousand tons less than the CVN-68.



Niko Zhang said:


> Ah, see, this is where u MADE THINGS UP. On that site, there is NO single piece saying it’s short tons. It said tons. You are wasting time here come on.
> 
> Secondly, I can see that u really lack some understanding of the things u r talking about. It is well-known that JFK as a Kitty Hawk class CV, is quite different than others due to the new design and modifications. Just like those later built Nimitz.



The CVN-68 is 97,000 short tons.

The CV-64 was 82,000 short tons.

But the CV-67 had to be 82,000 metric tons???

Who made things up?

The late Nimitz ships are much more armored than the earlier version, also with its draft being increased, hence there is a 10,000 metric tons increase.

But the old JFK only had a modified island structure, and there was no increase of armor and draft. So there was no significant increase of tonnage in the old JFK.

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## Niko Zhang

samsara said:


> Btw for the case of USA, please pay attention to the terms used there:
> 
> *Short Ton - Ton vs Tonne - Metric Ton*
> 
> *In the USA, a short ton is usually known simply as a "ton", without distinguishing it from the tonne* (1,000 kilograms), known there as the "*metric ton*"; while the *short ton *or simply "*ton*" (as used in the US references) actually equals to 907.18474 kilograms.
> 
> Just be aware of the proper unit terms used specifically in that country.



That is a point. It likely to happen. But there is possibility that in that source the unit “ton” does mean 1000 kilograms. Because it was not clearly defined.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Niko Zhang said:


> That is a point. It likely to happen. But there is possibility that in that source the unit “ton” does mean 1000 kilograms. Because it was not clearly defined.



You have to aware the block coefficient of the ship.

If the CV-67 weighs over 80,000 metric tons, then its block coefficient is going to be comparable to the CVN-78.

Do you think it is possible for a Cold War conventional aircraft carrier with a relatively skinny proportion to be as robust as the most armored nuclear supercarrier of today?

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## zhxy

China's industrial strength surpasses that of the United States and the EU. China can build aircraft carriers> 100,000 tons.

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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> There is no proof that the old JFK had a significant increase of tonnage over the previous Kitty Hawk class ships except with a modified island structure.
> 
> The CVN-68 is only 88,000 metric tons, and it is about 12,000 metric tons lighter than the CVN-78 despite having the same length and beam width.
> 
> The old JFK is significantly smaller than the CVN-68, and it was also skinnier and being less armored. There is no way it can be only a couple thousand tons less than the CVN-68.
> 
> 
> 
> The CVN-68 is 97,000 short tons.
> 
> The CV-64 was 82,000 short tons.
> 
> But the CV-67 had to be 82,000 metric tons???
> 
> Who made things up?
> 
> The late Nimitz ships are much more armored than the earlier version, also with its draft being increased, hence there is a 10,000 metric tons increase.
> 
> But the old JFK only had a modified island structure, and there was no increase of armor and draft. So there was no significant increase of tonnage in the old JFK.



You want to make “speculation” on a futuristic thing. Okay, in time we will find out. 
But now seems like you are so crazy about denying everything that is against your opinions EVEN if it’s fact. One denying after another. Keep this in mind, your source is NOT the absolute truth. Be open-minded for god sake. After all we didn’t built these ships

Plus your whole point is about the displacement and power system of 003. I am very sure that you will also deny the fact when there is one. So I’m out. You can enjoy your imaginary victory. Like those Indian people.


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## ChineseTiger1986

zhxy said:


> China's industrial strength surpasses that of the United States and the EU. China can build aircraft carriers> 100,000 tons.



If the Type 003 is conventional, then it is going to use the gas turbines instead of the obsolete steam boilers. The conventional aircraft carriers built nowadays all use gas turbines.

However, the layout of the engine room shows that the Type 003 will still use the steam turbines, therefore the nuclear propulsion will be the only viable option.

The Type 002 also uses the steam turbines instead of the gas turbines, because its steam turbine technology will later pave the road for the Type 003.



Niko Zhang said:


> You want to make “speculation” on a futuristic thing. Okay, in time we will find out.
> But now seems like you are so crazy about denying everything that is against your opinions EVEN if it’s fact. One denying after another. Keep this in mind, your source is NOT the absolute truth. Be open-minded for god sake. After all we didn’t built these ships
> 
> Plus your whole point is about the displacement and power system of 003. I am very sure that you will also deny the fact when there is one. So I’m out. You can enjoy your imaginary victory. Like those Indian people.



Sorry, I just managed to burst all the bubbles of those 80,000+ metric tons Forrestal/Kitty Hawk supercarriers from your own imagination.

Now you are still fighting a losing argument by insisting that the old JFK is still the case.

However, you still cannot provide any viable argument.

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## Figaro

Niko Zhang said:


> Okay, in time we will find out.


Yes you said it right. Can we now please stop arguing and filling this thread with endless back and forths about speculation? Thank you.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> Yes you said it right. Can we now please stop arguing and filling this thread with endless back and forths about speculation? Thank you.



I was not the instigator.

It was @Niko Zhang who wanted to impose the draconian rules from the CD forum into this thread: any talk about the Type 003 being possibly nuclear powered is strictly forbidden.

The CD forum has now turned into sh1t because of the blind worship of these fanboys for fzgfzy.

I believe that he must be one of these CD posters who got the problems with the cult of personality for fzgfzy, since he behaved extremely aggressive toward anyone who supports the nuclear theory. I support the nuclear theory, but it doesn't mean that I have to hunt down anyone who got a different opinion from mine.

You can just check my past comments in this thread, I used to support conventional carrier, even the steam catapult. However, my point of view has changed over time because more evidence become more apparent.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I was not the instigator.
> 
> It was @Niko Zhang who wanted to impose the draconian rules from the CD forum into this thread: any talk about the Type 003 being possibly nuclear powered is strictly forbidden.
> 
> The CD forum has now turned into sh1t because of the blind worship of these fanboys for fzgfzy.
> 
> I believe that he must be one of these CD posters who got the problems with the cult of personality for fzgfzy, since he behaved extremely aggressive toward anyone who supports the nuclear theory. I support the nuclear theory, but it doesn't mean that I have to hunt down anyone who got a different opinion from mine.
> 
> You can just check my past comments in this thread, I used to support conventional carrier, even the steam catapult. However, my point of view has changed over time because more evidence become more apparent.


I was referring to the other poster who started this


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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I was not the instigator.
> 
> It was @Niko Zhang who wanted to impose the draconian rules from the CD forum into this thread: any talk about the Type 003 being possibly nuclear powered is strictly forbidden.
> 
> The CD forum has now turned into sh1t because of the blind worship of these fanboys for fzgfzy.
> 
> I believe that he must be one of these CD posters who got the problems with the cult of personality for fzgfzy, since he behaved extremely aggressive toward anyone who supports the nuclear theory. I support the nuclear theory, but it doesn't mean that I have to hunt down anyone who got a different opinion from mine.
> 
> You can just check my past comments in this thread, I used to support conventional carrier, even the steam catapult. However, my point of view has changed over time because more evidence become more apparent.



It’s totally fine u keep it that way. Like those people claiming Su-35 will never be bought, FC-31 will never be introduced. You can continue your own war anywhere anytime, since u said I want to put rules on u. So plz, go on. Bye, hope you are still around when 003 is launched.


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## samsara

I don't want to write too many words here, so I just attach the Profile pages to reflect. One pic (and stats) tells thousands of words. 







Argument-wise, one can judge whose language is harsher, less cordial here! It's called a language propriety!

Anyhow I wish we all move on as the Mod has said earlier.

Let the revelation in near future attest who's right who's wrong in this "guessing game". There is no 100% guarantee for sure… but if I have to bet, I know what position I'll stick to… though still playing on probability, the winning odds

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## Deino

samsara said:


> ...
> Anyhow I wish we all move on as the Mod has said earlier.
> 
> Let the revelation in near future attest who's right who's wrong in this "guessing game". There is no 100% guarantee for sure… but if I have to bet, I know what position I'll stick to… though still playing on probability, the winning odds





Thanks and therefore: STOP with this discussion until we see it!

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## waja2000

samsara said:


> From Dante80 /SDF:
> 
> What do you predict of the 003:
> a) Steam catapult + Coventional power
> b) Steam catapult + Nuclear power
> c) EMALS + Coventional power
> d) EMALS + Nuclear power
> e) None of above



My predict is --> c) EMALS + Coventional power

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Thanks and therefore: STOP with this discussion until we see it!



Whether the posters here support nuclear or conventional, everyone should bring the valid argument onto the table.

Name-calling and other aggressive behaviors should not be tolerated, and hopefully you can spend more time to moderate it.

The discussion and speculation on the size of the Type 003 based on the satellite images should not be forbidden.

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> I don't want to write too many words here, so I just attach the Profile pages to reflect. One pic (and stats) tells thousands of words.
> 
> View attachment 649027
> 
> 
> Argument-wise, one can judge whose language is harsher, less cordial here! It's called a language propriety!
> 
> Anyhow I wish we all move on as the Mod has said earlier.
> 
> Let the revelation in near future attest who's right who's wrong in this "guessing game". There is no 100% guarantee for sure… but if I have to bet, I know what position I'll stick to… though still playing on probability, the winning odds


I agree. Besides, a lot of members here a couple years back put down the idea of a EM catapult on the 003, absolutely *insisting* that a steam catapult was going to be used. And yet here we are today. Nuclear propulsion may be the same case. There is simply a lot we don't know yet.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> I agree. Besides, a lot of members here a couple years back put down the idea of a EM catapult on the 003, absolutely *insisting* that a steam catapult was going to be used. And yet here we are today. Nuclear propulsion may be the same case. There is simply a lot we don't know yet.



The steam catapult didn't make sense when the EMALS was already ready to launch, and it is not technologically related to the EMALS at all.

As for the steam boiler system, it is an outdated propulsion that nobody uses it today. The Type 002 still uses it because it is experimental and China wanted to master the steam turbine technology from the Type 001. And the steam turbines technology is also needed for the nuclear propulsion.

If the Type 003 is conventional, then it would most likely use the gas turbine like the QE class carriers, and China would not replicate the Type 002 with an outdated propulsion system.

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## Niko Zhang

Claim about the following content: I mean NO quarrel. I am NOT attempting to convince anyone. I’m fine with any other share their thoughts. I will mark this post so when the launch day comes it will be clear enough for everybody to tell whether it’s right or wrong. Until then, don’t being judgmental to me plz. I welcome private messages, too. 

The first one of type 003 aircraft carrier:

1. EMALS
2. Conventional power, steam turbine
3. Displacement: 70k-80k tons(metric ton), small possibilities of ①being slightly less than 70k ② a bit more than 80k
4. 3 catapults, 3 elevators
5. New aircrafts available AS SOON AS the first 003 entering service: upgraded J-15, J-15D, fixed wing carrier based AWACS, Z-20(possibly). Not one less, maybe more(except 5th gen fighter)

Have a nice day gentlemen.


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## ChineseTiger1986

We need this monster to power a 70,000 tonnes CATOBAR aircraft carrier.

Only USA/Europe/Japan used to build this thing.










Whereas this one can only power a 60,000 tonnes ski-jump aircraft carrier at max.

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## Niko Zhang

Forgot to add these:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/67.htm

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/ship-histories/danfs/j/john-f-kennedy-cva-67.html

I don’t know why a conventional carrier with a displacement of more than 80k is not possible. But since there are doubts, I’d like to put the link here. There are such carriers indeed. 

And I think it’s rather irrelevant to mention this while the topic is about 003. After all, we are not exactly sure about its displacement, which can not determine the power system of a ship either.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Again, the CV-67 should be 87,000 short tons according to the website you posted, otherwise it was going to be as big as the CVN-68, which was virtually impossible.


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## ChineseTiger1986

The engine room of the Type 003 shows that its layout is fundamentally different from the Forrestal/Kitty Hawk class.

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## Niko Zhang

@ChineseTiger1986 Do u agree that those 956, 051B/C are NOT outdated?


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## obj 705A

ChineseTiger1986 said:


>



What is this picture of? I assume it is an American carrier?


ChineseTiger1986 said:


>


Can you tell us what does this mean? Google has no idea how to translate.


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The engine room of the Type 003 shows that its layout is fundamentally different from the Forrestal/Kitty Hawk class.
> 
> View attachment 649248


The difference I noticed from this picture is that the spaces in it are longitudinal while in the first pic (presumably American convetional CV) are horizontal, is that the difference in layout you were talking about? or did I completely miss the point?

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## Figaro

I think if China has already decided to go with EM catapults, it would also make sense to take another step forward and go with nuclear propulsion. Why wait when there is a superior propulsion available? Just like why spend billions and years of effort on a carrier with steam catapults when EM catapults are ready? It seems more of a question whether China's nuclear propulsion for carriers are ready yet.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Niko Zhang said:


> @ChineseTiger1986 Do u agree that those 956, 051B/C are NOT outdated?



Yes they are.

Just like the Sovremenny class, they stay here because they haven’t yet running out of lifespan, but it doesn’t the currently commissioned ship cannot be outdated.



obj 705A said:


> What is this picture of? I assume it is an American carrier?
> 
> Can you tell us what does this mean? Google has no idea how to translate.
> 
> The difference I noticed from this picture is that the spaces in it are longitudinal while in the first pic (presumably American convetional CV) are horizontal, is that the difference in layout you were talking about? or did I completely miss the point?



I will later do a sketch of engine room（reactor spaces） in English.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yes they are.
> I will later do a sketch of engine room（reactor spaces） in English.




Thanks a lot!

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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yes they are.
> 
> Just like the Sovremenny class, they stay here because they haven’t yet running out of lifespan, but it doesn’t the currently commissioned ship cannot be outdated.
> 
> 
> 
> I will later do a sketch of engine room（reactor spaces） in English.



Define what is outdated.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Niko Zhang said:


> Define what is outdated.



outdated ship ≠ decommissioned ship

Many WWII warship like the USS Missouri (BB-63) lasted until the 1990s, an era where the US already had several battlegroup of the Nimitz class supercarriers.

These ships were commissioned until then, but it was already outdated like the current PLAN destroyers with the steam boilers. They are not decommissioned yet because they haven't running out of lifespan.

The Sovremenny class is also outdated, but they won't decommission it immediately because it hasn't reached the end of its lifespan.


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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Again, the CV-67 should be 87,000 short tons according to the website you posted, otherwise it was going to be as big as the CVN-68, which was virtually impossible.



Don’t use words like “should be”. Give me EVIDENCE that can prove these 2 sites are wrong. If you can’t, then just admit I’m right.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Thanks a lot!



@Deino @obj 705A

Here is my sloppy sketches about the engine room layout of several US supercarriers, also with the 2 reference pics of the dismantling Forrestal class and the constructing Ford class.

Hopefully you guys can make your own judgement in comparison with the modules of the Type 003.

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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> outdated ship ≠ decommissioned ship
> 
> Many WWII warship like the USS Missouri (BB-63) lasted until the 1990s, an era where the US already had several battlegroup of the Nimitz class supercarriers.
> 
> These ships were commissioned until then, but it was already outdated like the current PLAN destroyers with the steam boilers. They are not decommissioned yet because they haven't running out of lifespan.
> 
> The Sovremenny class is also outdated, but they won't decommission it immediately because it hasn't reached the end of its lifespan.



You don’t seem to understand. My question is: define what is outdated. I will kindly help u to understand it in another way: what is the standard to judge whether it’s outdated or not?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Niko Zhang said:


> You don’t seem to understand. My question is: define what is outdated. I will kindly help u to understand it in another way: what is the standard to judge whether it’s outdated or not?



You can't make any substantiated argument, but just keep repeating like a broken record.

Any more of verbal harassment I will put you in my ignored list.


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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You can't make any substantiated argument, but just keep repeating like a broken record.
> 
> Any more of verbal harassment I will put you in my ignored list.



I am doing exactly what everyone in this forum is doing, asking questions and discuss. So, since u still haven’t answered the question, plz define what is outdated. Or what is your standard of if it’s outdated or not.


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## Deino

Niko Zhang said:


> I am doing exactly what everyone in this forum is doing, asking questions and discuss. So, since u still haven’t answered the question, plz define what is outdated. Or what is your standard of if it’s outdated or not.




Come on ... insisting on that single off-topic question is stubborn. 

Let's focos on the new carrier please.

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## Niko Zhang

Deino said:


> Come on ... insisting on that single off-topic question is stubborn.
> 
> Let's focos on the new carrier please.



sure. But he mentioned this first. What do u suggest me to do?


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## Deino

Niko Zhang said:


> sure. But he mentioned this first. What do u suggest me to do?




To transfer that question in the regular PLAN thread and hope he replies ... but here it is off topic.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> To transfer that question in the regular PLAN thread and hope he replies ... but here it is off topic.



He is in my ignored list right now.

I won't reply any of his posts, and let's move on.

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## Niko Zhang

Deino said:


> To transfer that question in the regular PLAN thread and hope he replies ... but here it is off topic.



Okay, but since I have no choice but to put him in the ignored list as he is unable to conduct a normal discussions, I’d like to say thanks and move on. However, I’m not sure how well he will be participating.


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## lcloo

Thank goodness, finally both of you put each other on ignored list. Thank you guys.

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## PeacefulWar

lcloo said:


> Thank goodness, finally both of you put each other on ignored list. Thank you guys.


Hahaha


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## Figaro

lcloo said:


> Satellite photo dated 2020-07-07 from 卫星图像发烧员 Weibo. The dry dock is still empty except Xuelong II Artic exploring ship for maintenance work.
> 
> View attachment 648959
> View attachment 648960


How much longer will it take for the modules to be moved to the dry dock?


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## lcloo

Figaro said:


> How much longer will it take for the modules to be moved to the dry dock?


Anytime now, the small ship in the dry dock which was said to be Xuelong II is now at Huangpu river in Shanghai。 Keep tab on next week or week after.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> How much longer will it take for the modules to be moved to the dry dock?



Allegedly, there is still a civilian ship before the Type 003 modules move into the dry dock by the end of August.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Allegedly, there is still a civilian ship before the Type 003 modules move into the dry dock by the end of August.


end of August is still over 1-1/2 months away ... hopefully sooner


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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> end of August is still over 1-1/2 months away ... hopefully sooner



Just wait for another two months, and then let's see what is going on in that dry dock No. 4.


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## LKJ86

Via @铁幕君SSS from Weibo

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## Figaro

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 651661
> 
> Via @铁幕君SSS from Weibo


What is the significance of this photo? It is very blurry ...


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## Deino

Figaro said:


> What is the significance of this photo? It is very blurry ...




Yes, but it is at least a new one!


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## Figaro

LOL the same Minnie Chan now says there are two carriers now under construction ... I thought she said China had to significantly scale back their carrier program last year? Another reason she should not be trusted ... although this I'd say is one of her few articles that is actually somewhat accurate. 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mil...shipbuilding-two-more-aircraft-carriers-under


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## PeacefulWar

Figaro said:


> LOL the same Minnie Chan now says there are two carriers now under construction ... I thought she said China had to significantly scale back their carrier program last year? Another reason she should not be trusted ... although this I'd say is one of her few articles that is actually somewhat accurate.
> 
> https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mil...shipbuilding-two-more-aircraft-carriers-under


Hehehe, yes she said 5th and 6th AC are cancelled IIRC.


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## english_man

PeacefulWar said:


> Hehehe, yes she said 5th and 6th AC are cancelled IIRC.


I remember reading her article last year.............and even then i thought she was talking rubbish!

Where does she get her info from?

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## Figaro

english_man said:


> I remember reading her article last year.............and even then i thought she was talking rubbish!
> 
> Where does she get her info from?


Probably some military enthuasists who are unreliable ... she can even invent information since her sources are "anonymous".


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## bolo

Figaro said:


> LOL the same Minnie Chan now says there are two carriers now under construction ... I thought she said China had to significantly scale back their carrier program last year? Another reason she should not be trusted ... although this I'd say is one of her few articles that is actually somewhat accurate.
> 
> https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mil...shipbuilding-two-more-aircraft-carriers-under


I don't think any Chinese takes SCMP seriously. Definitely cannot take their reports on the military seriously.


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## Figaro

bolo said:


> I don't think any Chinese takes SCMP seriously. Definitely cannot take their reports on the military seriously.


No PLA watcher should take her seriously ... and yet she is constantly quoted.

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## english_man

Figaro said:


> No PLA watcher should take her seriously ... and yet she is constantly quoted.



Yes that is right.......unfortunately worldwide media outlets see her reports and then quote her, as though she was some official Chinese military spokesperson......whereas in reality she is not!

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## samsara

This media somehow adapts itself to the reporting styles of the Western MSM, akin to Fox News, CNN, NYT, WaPo, WSJ, BBC and so on. Folks who are getting used to this MSM should have some familiarity with the style or method, incl the anonymity of the "source".

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> This media somehow adapts itself to the reporting styles of the Western MSM, akin to Fox News, CNN, NYT, WaPo, WSJ, BBC and so on. Folks who are getting used to this MSM should have some familiarity with the style or method, incl the anonymity of the "source".


I have not seen a single source more successful than Minnie Chan get quoted more often by Western MSM ... like why do they think Minnie Chan has credible info just because she has "anonymous sources?" It's absolutely crazy how much traction her stupid articles have.


----------



## Tiqiu



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## flowerfan2020

Tiqiu said:


> View attachment 652167


Can you provide more details?

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## english_man

flowerfan2020 said:


> Can you provide more details?


Yes exactly......i have mentioned this before, we would appreciate when people post images, to at least provide a few words of text, to explain what we are looking at. Its just common courtesy. As far as i'am concerned the image in question just shows a bunch of cargo ships?


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## lcloo

Tiqiu said:


> View attachment 652167


These are dry docks #1 and #2 for civilian cargo ships. Dry dock #4 for the aircraft carrier is on the top left corner of attached photo and is hardly visible.


See below for locations of dry docks on Changxin island.

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## Figaro

lcloo said:


> These are dry docks #1 and #2 for civilian cargo ships. Dry dock #4 for the aircraft carrier is on the top left corner of attached photo and is hardly visible.
> 
> 
> See below for locations of dry docks on Changxin island.
> View attachment 652196


Is this a new picture? I still see no modules here


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## lcloo

Figaro said:


> Is this a new picture? I still see no modules here


It is the latest available Google Earth picture but it is quite old, dated 2018 April.

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## samsara

Folks must learn to be PATIENT until the pertinent info is *made available*, and not nagging around for something undue!

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## LKJ86

Via 舰船知识

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## Figaro

Big shrimp Pop3 says the PLAN is planning for 10 carriers by 2035. I assume not 10 operational but 10 total, including those in service and fitting out/undergoing sea trials. Very impressive.

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## english_man

Figaro said:


> Big shrimp Pop3 says the PLAN is planning for 10 carriers by 2035. I assume not 10 operational but 10 total, including those in service and fitting out/undergoing sea trials. Very impressive.
> View attachment 653246



That is very impressive if true.............and it will mean a great deal of work has to be done by the Chinese, to accomplish having 10 Carriers by 2035. Upto now it was considered that China might have 6 Carriers by then. I presume to meet the target of 10 Carriers they will have to settle on a particular design of carrier, then build several of those as it would be easier and quicker than building a few different classes. Btw:- thats the first time for a while that i have heard "pop3's" name mentioned!


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## PeacefulWar

I have some doubts about 10 carries.
China don't project power globally.
10 is an overkill.


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## flowerfan2020

PeacefulWar said:


> I have some doubts about 10 carries.
> China don't project power globally.
> 10 is an overkill.


Why do you think China don't project power globally? Not now doesn't mean not in the future.


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## sheik

Figaro said:


> Big shrimp Pop3 says the PLAN is planning for 10 carriers by 2035. I assume not 10 operational but 10 total, including those in service and fitting out/undergoing sea trials. Very impressive.
> View attachment 653246



Indeed. The advantage of the China's much lower cost in weapons development and manufacture is huge, and the quality is almost as good as the US now. The only things we need is time and patience, although every one in the mainland cannot wait to see the final reunification of the great country.



flowerfan2020 said:


> Why do you think China don't project power globally? Not now doesn't mean not in the future.



China is not interested in overturning foreign governments or promoting her values. However, she must have enough military power to protect her citizens and assets overseas as well as the international transportation lines.

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## lcloo

2035 is 15 years away. Pop3 gave hint that the 4th ship will be build soon, so building the other 6 ships is possible if two shipyards build a carrier each at the same time.

Using multiple locations to cut steel, fabrication of modules and final assembly, the steel cutting plant work for 2 years for each ship, then transfer the cut steel to a fabrication yard to build up the modules for another 2 years, and move the modules to a dry dock for final assembly (1 year). The times mentioned is assumption based on CV003/XX's progress in JNCX shipyard.

So, 6 ships will take up 12 years of steel cutting plant's time, 12 years in the fabrication yard, and 6 years of the dry dock's time. So if there is no disruption, building 10 ships by 2035 is possible. As per Pop3 this is PLAN's planning, though politics and the intensity of military threat from foreign countries may decide if this ship building will proceed as planned.

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## lcloo

lcloo said:


> So, 6 ships will take up 12 years of steel cutting plant's time, 12 years in the fabrication yard, and 6 years of the dry dock's time. So if there is no disruption, building 10 ships by 2035 is possible. As per Pop3 this is PLAN's planning, though politics and the intensity of military threat from foreign countries may decide if this ship building will proceed as planned.



I made an error on above statement because I assumed there is only one steel cutting plant, one fabrication yard and one dry dock. Since Dalian and JNCX will be building aircraft carrier, there should be at least 2 of each.

So the cutting plant in JNCX will take up around 6 years instead of 12 years.

Assume work starts in 2021
1. Steel cutting plant will work from 2021 to 2022, 2023 to 2024, 2025 to 2026 for three ships.
2. Fabrication yard work from 2023 to 2028 (2 years each ship)
3. Dry dock work from 2025 to 2029 ( 1 year each ship)
4. Out fitting (2 years each ship) work from 2026 to 2031.
5. Sea Trial (2 years each ship) work from 2028 to 2033.

Looks like a very tight schedule, so they have to work hard and fast and no major mistake will be allowed.

The manufacturing plants and dry docks are more than several dozens in China, the above mentioned steel cutting plants/ fabrication yard/dry docks refer to those dedicated for navy ships only (as example, the fabrication yard at the new harbour basin in JNCX and Dry dock #4.)

Edit: to include the 4th ship, one of the shipyard will have to build 4 new aircraft carriers instead of 3. The below schedule is on expedited time basis, with fabrication of modules started before all steel plates are cut and shape formed, this is like "Just-In-Time" manufacturing method practice in automobile manufacturing where zero/minimum WIP stocks are kept.






Finally, all above are just my two cents, please don't take them as if they are official.

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## obj 705A

PeacefulWar said:


> I have some doubts about 10 carries.
> China don't project power globally.
> 10 is an overkill.



The carriers are not for projecting power against helpless nations, it is for providing air cover for Chinese DDGs in far away regions (eg: the far parts of the Pacific, the mediterranean, the Indian ocean etc..) in order to secure the trade routes with Latin America , Africa etc.. against the USN, if a Chinese DDG is targeted by US aircrafts armed with long range missiles (ie: beyond the range of the HQ-9) then China's warships will be like sitting ducks without air cover.

A long time ago I said China will match the USN in the future but pessimists kept on saying "Naaaah no way" , I have been proven right on this issue now.

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## Tiqiu

Words are two 003 type ships are being built in Jiangnan right now. The building of the first ship of 005 type will soon be started in Daling, so next year the world will see 3 carries under construction.The use of modular construction approach coupled with floating dry dock transportion makes building multiple carriers possible and faster. 














005 is certainly nuclear, but 003/4 are uncertain. I am inclined to believe they are as 2025 is the year that Chinese Navy achieves its strategic pivoting to deeo blue sea.

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## obj 705A

obj 705A said:


> A long time ago I said China will match the USN in the future but pessimists kept on saying "Naaaah no way" , I have been proven right on this issue now.



Same thing goes for DDGs, previously whenever I said China is gonna have more than 100 DDGs somewhere between 2030 & 2040, pessimists would say "Naaah no way China doesn't need that much, protecting Chinese coast is enough" well to those people I say.. I assure you it's only a matter of time before a big shrimp says "China plans to have 120 DDGs by 2035" just like what happened now with aircraft carriers.

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## samsara

Tiqiu said:


> Words are two 003 type ships are being built in Jiangnan right now. The building of the first ship of 005 type will soon be started in Daling, so next year the world will see 3 carries under construction.The use of modular construction approach coupled with floating dry dock transportion makes building multiple carriers possible and faster.
> 
> View attachment 653303
> 
> View attachment 653300
> 
> View attachment 653301
> 
> 
> 005 is certainly nuclear, but 003/4 are uncertain. I am inclined to believe they are as 2025 is the year that Chinese Navy achieves its strategic pivoting to deeo blue sea.
> 
> View attachment 653296


If what you posted above is proved to be true by the next year, then Minnie Chan from the South China Morning Post will also be proved as true as well, on her latest article about China's carrier built-up!

Then some active members here as well as those at the other neighbourhood forum will need to apologize to Ms. Chan for what their strong characterizations of her 

Time will tell, within the next 12 months or earlier


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## PeacefulWar

obj 705A said:


> The carriers are not for projecting power against helpless nations, it is for providing air cover for Chinese DDGs in far away regions (eg: the far parts of the Pacific, the mediterranean, the Indian ocean etc..) in order to secure the trade routes with Latin America , Africa etc.. against the USN, if a Chinese DDG is targeted by US aircrafts armed with long range missiles (ie: beyond the range of the HQ-9) then China's warships will be like sitting ducks without air cover.
> 
> A long time ago I said China will match the USN in the future but pessimists kept on saying "Naaaah no way" , I have been proven right on this issue now.


Yes, that's why I think 6-8 is the best number.
China don't have oversea bases, our main focus is still near sea and SCS.


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## obj 705A

PeacefulWar said:


> Yes, that's why I think 6-8 is the best number.
> China don't have oversea bases, our main focus is still near sea and SCS.



Africa and Latin America are not located in the SCS, Latin America is on the other side of the Pacific, the US has 60% of it's fleet in the Pacific and the USN will probably have a total of 13 CVNs so for securing the trade routes to Latin America China needs to have 8 aircraft carriers just for the Pacific, then comes the task of securing the sea based trade routes to Africa, the USN has the remaining 40% in the other half of the earth, so China will need some aircraft carriers for that region too.


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## lcloo

If you look beyond 2035, China will likely overtake US in economy as well as military. This is the one big reason why US is desperately waging trade war and political containment with the aim to stop China's ascension. 

These aircraft carriers are meant to be deployed for periods from 2030 to 2060 and beyond. Thus we cannot use current geopolitical affairs to ponder how they will be used. This planning takes some serious brain-storming in CMC and Chinese think tanks, and we are not the ones to judge whether this CV building program is correct or not as our view beyond 2030 is very limited.

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## PeacefulWar

obj 705A said:


> Africa and Latin America are not located in the SCS, Latin America is on the other side of the Pacific, the US has 60% of it's fleet in the Pacific and the USN will probably have a total of 13 CVNs so for securing the trade routes to Latin America China needs to have 8 aircraft carriers just for the Pacific, then comes the task of securing the sea based trade routes to Africa, the USN has the remaining 40% in the other half of the earth, so China will need some aircraft carriers for that region too.


Hmm, unless China can set up a few military bases there, otherwise it doesn't matter how many carriers we have we can't project power there.



lcloo said:


> If you look beyond 2035, China will likely overtake US in economy as well as military. This is the one big reason why US is desperately waging trade war and political containment with the aim to stop China's ascension.
> 
> These aircraft carriers are meant to be deployed for periods from 2030 to 2060 and beyond. Thus we cannot use current geopolitical affairs to ponder how they will be used. This planning takes some serious brain-storming in CMC and Chinese think tanks, and we are not the ones to judge whether this CV building program is correct or not as our view beyond 2030 is very limited.


Yes, but that's a bit too far to predict.
Let's see. 
We are not sure how creditable is the rumor yet anyway.


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## LittleFish

obj 705A said:


> Africa and Latin America are not located in the SCS, Latin America is on the other side of the Pacific, the US has 60% of it's fleet in the Pacific and the USN will probably have a total of 13 CVNs so for securing the trade routes to Latin America China needs to have 8 aircraft carriers just for the Pacific, then comes the task of securing the sea based trade routes to Africa, the USN has the remaining 40% in the other half of the earth, so China will need some aircraft carriers for that region too.


We are no world police, nor we want to be. 10 ACs may be true, but it must be a total number with older ACs like Liaoling. 
Also, we don't have enough oversea territory islands like US/FR/UK, nor do we have enough allies that is willing to provide us a port as base in the near future. The purpose to build a strong navy is to get Taiwan back rather than involve into foreign affairs.


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## Deino

*Guys STOP with these political - especially war-mongering with retaiking Taiwan scenario - posts in this section.

Take this as a warning. *


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## LKJ86

Via @西葛西造舰军事CG from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @红色金银潍 from Weibo

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## CIA Mole

Is this where they start doing legos?


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## obj 705A

Is it just my phone or is this picture above blurry as f***!

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## Figaro

obj 705A said:


> Is it just my phone or is this picture above blurry as f***!


It is indeed very blurry ...


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## lcloo

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 653515
> 
> Via @红色金银潍 from Weibo


After I do some graphic treatment on the blur photo. We can see some object in the dry dock, so the assembly has began.

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## Figaro

lcloo said:


> If you look beyond 2035, China will likely overtake US in economy as well as military. This is the one big reason why US is desperately waging trade war and political containment with the aim to stop China's ascension.
> 
> These aircraft carriers are meant to be deployed for periods from 2030 to 2060 and beyond. Thus we cannot use current geopolitical affairs to ponder how they will be used. This planning takes some serious brain-storming in CMC and Chinese think tanks, and we are not the ones to judge whether this CV building program is correct or not as our view beyond 2030 is very limited.


But 10 by 2035 was still very surprising to me. I know it includes the two STOBAR carriers but even they are still pretty capable. It looks like the PLAN is indeed trying to match the USN ship for ship, not just on the quality but also the quantity side. I am sure they are also doing it on the submarine side, although it is much more secretive ... but sooner or later we will get those pics of 093B and 095s. The ambition of PLAN naval planners, if Pop3 is indeed correct, is considerably more than even what I expected.


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## LKJ86

Via @卫星图像发烧员 from Weibo

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## bolo

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 653607
> 
> Via @卫星图像发烧员 from Weibo


Are these satellite pics taken from Beidou?


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## LKJ86

bolo said:


> Are these satellite pics taken from Beidou?


You had misunderstood what Beidou is.

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## bolo

LKJ86 said:


> You had misunderstood what Beidou is.


I didn't mean Beidou. Beidou is for navigation. Was the pic taken by a Chinese or foreign satellite?


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## Figaro

bolo said:


> I didn't mean Beidou. Beidou is for navigation. Was the pic taken by a Chinese or foreign satellite?


Given it was posted from Weibo, probably some commercial Chinese satellite company

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## samsara

bolo said:


> I didn't mean Beidou. Beidou is for navigation. Was the pic taken by a Chinese or foreign satellite?


You clearly mentioned "Beidou", whatever did you mean by Beidou here… or did you think every Chinese sat is named Beidou?? 

Obviously the sat source ain't the US one, though it's irrelevant here, the remote pic was intentionally given as blurred. Unless you can obtain a better one, just live with that.



bolo said:


> Are these satellite pics taken from Beidou?


.


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## PeacefulWar

bolo said:


> I didn't mean Beidou. Beidou is for navigation. Was the pic taken by a Chinese or foreign satellite?


Not sure what satellite.
There are a lot commercial satellites provide such services.


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## Aasimkhan

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> According to POP3, the construction has been started, so China has simultaneously started the construction of both Type 001A and Type 002.
> 
> 转帖POP3大师:三言两语说弹射器-海军版-超级大本营军事论坛-最具影响力军事论坛 -


Will it have catapults ? Steam or electromagnetic ?


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## PeacefulWar

Aasimkhan said:


> Will it have catapults ? Steam or electromagnetic ?


Most likely electromagnetic

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## Figaro

Aasimkhan said:


> Will it have catapults ? Steam or electromagnetic ?


100% electromagnetic ... this was confirmed by multiple Big Shrimps and even official sources 3 years ago. It was initially steam catapults but then the navy switched to EM catapults, delaying the construction.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Aasimkhan said:


> Will it have catapults ? Steam or electromagnetic ?



That was from 2014, and a lot of things have been changed in the last 6 years.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> That was from 2014, and a lot of things have been changed in the last 6 years.


Even in 2014, the 003 was confirmed to have catapults ... no one expected China to make more than one 002 class STOBAR carrier.


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## sheik

Figaro said:


> Even in 2014, the 003 was confirmed to have catapults ... no one expected China to make more than one 002 class STOBAR carrier.



Exactly! Actually the Chinese shipbuilding companies preferred building a more advanced ship with steam catapults as the first indigenous carrier after Liaoning was completed, but PLAN, concerned about potential wars in the near future, wanted a ship that could be delivered sooner and enter full operation status sooner. Thus they chose to build a 2nd Liaoning with small revisions first.

The steam catapult tech was already available years ago when the 002 project (the later Shandong) was started, not to mention the 003. The designers just had to made changes to accommodate EMALS to 003 after it won the competition with steam catapults. And that delayed the 003 project for about a year.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> Even in 2014, the 003 was confirmed to have catapults ... no one expected China to make more than one 002 class STOBAR carrier.



Type 001 = Varyag/Liaoning

Type 002 = 70,000 tonnes CV with steam catapults

Type 003 = 100,000 tonnes CVN with steam catapults or electromagnetic catapults

That was China's original plan, but later they have decided to supplant the original Type 002 with the Type 001A, so everything has been changed.

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## Niko Zhang

Figaro said:


> But 10 by 2035 was still very surprising to me. I know it includes the two STOBAR carriers but even they are still pretty capable. It looks like the PLAN is indeed trying to match the USN ship for ship, not just on the quality but also the quantity side. I am sure they are also doing it on the submarine side, although it is much more secretive ... but sooner or later we will get those pics of 093B and 095s. The ambition of PLAN naval planners, if Pop3 is indeed correct, is considerably more than even what I expected.



I’m confident with 6 carriers in service, 8 in service+completed totally. Maybe hopefully 9 altogether.

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## LKJ86

Via @军戈飞扬 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 654183
> View attachment 654184
> View attachment 654185
> 
> Via @军戈飞扬 from Weibo







Via @卫星图像发烧员 from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 654433
> 
> Via @卫星图像发烧员 from Weibo




Wow ... and here a part of this image in comparison to one taken yesterday.









By the way does anyone know what program offers these images and which satellite took them?


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## jjx wood

Deino said:


> Wow ... and here a part of this image in comparison to one taken yesterday.
> 
> View attachment 654493
> View attachment 654494


Can you explain a little more of what you see? Thanks.


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## Figaro

jjx wood said:


> Can you explain a little more of what you see? Thanks.


The carrier modules should be here.

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## jjx wood

Figaro said:


> The carrier modules should be here.
> View attachment 654535


Need a higher resolution to see what are the modules there, very impressive speed btw.


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## Figaro

jjx wood said:


> Need a higher resolution to see what are the modules there, very impressive speed btw.


We will all see the assembly process unfold in the fall ... it will be a repeat of watching the 002 construction 5 years ago except even more exciting this time because of the new technologies

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## Figaro

Interesting post by our @lcloo dating back to 2015 I found while going though the old SDF carrier thread. 


> From Recruitment page of Jiangnan Shipyard official website. I can think of only one ship, i.e. type 002 aircraft carrier. I believe they do not built nuke powered subs in JNCX yard.
> 
> This recruitment aims at fresh graduates of 2016. They do not build a ship with fresh graduates, these are trainees/ supporting personnel assisting those who are already in place.
> 
> http://jnshipyard.cssc.net.cn/compay_mod_file/news_detail.php?cart=11&id=256


Does this mean the 003 carrier will be indeed fitted with nuclear propulsion?

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## lcloo

Figaro said:


> Interesting post by our @lcloo dating back to 2015 I found while going though the old SDF carrier thread.
> 
> Does this mean the 003 carrier will be indeed fitted with nuclear propulsion?
> View attachment 655682


Remind me of the excitement of those old days watching weekly construction progress of PLANS Shandong (commonly known as type 001A then, which turned up to be 002).

Whether 003/CV-XX will be nuclear powered or not will be cleared in just a few months. Those fresh graduates should have 3 or 4 years hand on experience by now but we don't know if the nuclear power plant design for aircraft carrier has been finalised or not.

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## LKJ86

Via @铁幕君SSS from Weibo

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## Figaro



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## Deino

Figaro said:


> View attachment 656045




What's that "small" vessel in front of the carrier modules?


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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> What's that "small" vessel in front of the carrier modules?


Type 052D

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> Type 052D




Interesting, since a few days ago it wasn't there!


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## Figaro

So will the assembly process for the modules be very different from the 002 assembly process? IIRC, some people said Jiangnan and Dalian use different module processes.


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## jjx wood

Figaro said:


> Interesting post by our @lcloo dating back to 2015 I found while going though the old SDF carrier thread.
> 
> Does this mean the 003 carrier will be indeed fitted with nuclear propulsion?
> View attachment 655682


Maybe it was for nuclear submarine or coming future CVN!


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## Figaro

jjx wood said:


> Maybe it was for nuclear submarine or coming future CVN!


Jiangnan does not construct nuclear submarines ... Bohai does. As for the recruitment poster, it was dated from November 2015. I can only think of the project as relating to the current 003.


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## LKJ86

Via @军戈飞扬 from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 657632
> 
> Via @军戈飞扬 from Weibo




Wow ... what a progres since last week.
Can't wait for the first closer images.


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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 657632
> 
> Via @军戈飞扬 from Weibo


August 1, 2020




Via @卫星图像发烧员 from Weibo

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## Figaro

LKJ86 said:


> August 1, 2020
> View attachment 657743
> 
> Via @卫星图像发烧员 from Weibo


We need up close pictures of the modules on ground level!


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## luciferdd

from weibo

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## Deino

luciferdd said:


> View attachment 657847
> 
> from weibo




You just beat me by a minute!

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## PeacefulWar

Deino said:


> You just beat me by a minute!
> 
> 
> View attachment 657854


I'm really bad at reading such images.
Is the highlighted part the Type 003?

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## Deino

PeacefulWar said:


> I'm really bad at reading such images.
> Is the highlighted part the Type 003?
> View attachment 657865



Yes ... from how I understand the current situation!

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## PeacefulWar

Deino said:


> Yes ... from how I understand the current situation!
> 
> View attachment 657874


Much appreciated! 
Now I can see why you guys say it's progressing fast!


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## waja2000

PeacefulWar said:


> I'm really bad at reading such images.
> Is the highlighted part the Type 003?
> View attachment 657865



compare to container ship in front 003 feel very small ... haha


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## PeacefulWar

waja2000 said:


> compare to container ship in front 003 feel very small ... haha


Haha, so true!


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## Figaro

Deino said:


> Yes ... from how I understand the current situation!
> 
> View attachment 657874


Wow this is the best picture of the modules we've seen so far!

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## Deino

For @ChineseTiger1986 ... what do you think?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1290096217695719426

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> For @ChineseTiger1986 ... what do you think?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1290096217695719426


At this point I'm 60% for conventional power and 40% for nuclear power. I think China def has the technology for a nuclear reactor on a carrier but for this one specifically, they are still going to stick to conventional.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> For @ChineseTiger1986 ... what do you think?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1290096217695719426



Yep, someone has spotted the anti-radiation shielding box in the shipyard.

BTW, this ship will take into shape in just few months, and we can see that its eventual size will nearly fulfill the entire section of the dry dock.

Keep in mind that this section is 348 meters long, 82 meters wide, and 14.1 meters deep.

The size of the US supercarrier is 333 meters long, 78 meters wide, and 12.5 meters in draft.

If the Type 003 can nearly fulfill the entire section, then it is indeed within the league of the US supercarriers.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yep, someone has spotted the anti-radiation shielding box in the shipyard.
> 
> BTW, this ship will take into shape in just few months, and we can see that its eventual size will nearly fulfill the entire section of the dry dock.
> 
> Keep in mind that this section is 348 meters long, 82 meters wide, and 14.1 meters deep.
> 
> The size of the US supercarrier is 333 meters long, 78 meters wide, and 12.5 meters in draft.
> 
> If the Type 003 can nearly fulfill the entire section, then it is indeed within the league of the US supercarriers.
> 
> 
> View attachment 658286




From which date is the image you posted?

And by the way....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1290403171970539523

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> From which date is the image you posted?
> 
> And by the way....
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1290403171970539523



That's the pic from yesterday.

Look like they are now entering into the lightspeed mode.

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## jjx wood

I really hope this is nuclear CVN, so it can sail around the globe extended period and can rival US Navy.

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## Grandy

*Chinese Navy Installs New Turbo Generators to Power ‘Electromagnetic Railguns’ On It Warships*

Published on August 1, 2020
By EurAsian Times Desk

The Chinese Navy (People’s Liberation Army Navy) has installed new turbo generators on its warships. The decision to install the turbo generators comes in the midst of tensions with Quadrilateral Security Dialogue Members (QUAD) India, Japan, Australia and the United States.

The China State Shipbuilding Corporation’s (CSSC) 704 Research Institute announced recently that its 20-megawatt power generators had entered service, the Global Times reported. That’s enough electricity to light up a city of 15,000.

American Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, on the other hand, are only capable of a maximum power output of 7.5 megawatts using three 2.5-megawatt generators, making such a platform unfeasible for the railgun.

According to sources, the new turbo generators will power railguns and electromagnetic catapults in PLAN warships. The turbogenerators quadruple the power generation capacity of existing power plants.

Li Jie, a naval expert in Beijing, says that the more powerful generators “will mean all these high-energy-consuming systems can operate.”

China has been testing naval uses of a railgun since at least 2017, a weapon which uses electromagnets to accelerate a metal slug to incredible speeds. Rather than relying on explosives to destroy the target, the sheer force of the impact produces a huge release of energy, which is why railguns are called “kinetic energy weapons.”

The Global Times noted the turbo generators make it possible to use advanced integrated electric propulsion (IEP) technology, which basically turns ships and *aircraft carrier* into giant, hybrid gas-electric vehicles. The American Zumwalt uses such a design, as do th*e British Royal Navy’s Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier* and the cruise-liner RMS Queen Mary II.

Experts at EurAsian Times believe that the decision to deploy the new turbo generators comes at the time Beijing is facing the QUAD in the Pacific and the Indian Ocean. The QUAD united for the first time when they conducted naval drills in both Pacific and the Indian Ocean to send a covert message to China.

China’s claims to the South China Sea have suffered a set back in recent times with its largest trading partner -Australia labelling Beijing’s claim over the strategic waterway as ‘illegal’.

_Source: eurasiantimes.com “Chinese Navy Installs New Turbo Generators to Power ‘Electromagnetic Railguns’ On It Warships”_

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1290178630866235393

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## lcloo

星海军事 said:


> View attachment 659063
> 
> 
> Can we put an end to the endless debate now?


The presence of the rectangular gas/smoke exhaust at the top of the superstructure indicate that this is a conventional powered ship.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

星海军事 said:


> View attachment 659063
> 
> 
> Can we put an end to the endless debate now?



That's the island structure of the Type 002.

Also, the illustrations of this article contain a lot of inaccuracies.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> That's the island structure of the Type 002.
> 
> Also, the illustrations of this article contain a lot of inaccuracies.
> 
> 
> View attachment 659176


Wasnt the 003 super structure supposed to be at least a quarter smaller than that of the 002? This superstructure looks very similar to that of the 002


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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> Wasnt the 003 super structure supposed to be at least a quarter smaller than that of the 002? This superstructure looks very similar to that of the 002



That's definitely the superstructure of the Type 002.

Also, the superstructure should be sitting on the top of the hull like this, not completely off the edge like in the illustration of the article.








Also, i don't think the CPC will deliberately leak the superstructure of the Type 003 in a general article like this.


----------



## Figaro

Not having nuclear propulsion would be disappointing but not nearly as disappointing as not having EM catapults. I was really concerned a couple of years back that the PLAN was going for steam catapults just because its technology was a "reliable bet" ... great thing the PLAN changed their minds in 2016/17. Of course, I would much rather hope for the 003 to have nuclear propulsion, but it isn't strictly necessary unlike EM catapults.


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## ChineseTiger1986

星海军事 said:


> Would you care to elaborate in what way does it resemble the superstructure of 002?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 659255
> View attachment 659256
> 
> Do these superstructures look familiar to you? They are from papers published in 2015 and 2018 respectively.



More likely the smoke screen from CPC's usual tactics.

Just like they did trick you guys into believing that the third carrier was going to use the steam catapults.

BTW, the real Type 003 will be taking into shape by the end of this year, and the puzzle will definitely be solved.

I will not draw further conclusion until I see the real Type 003 taking into shape.


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## Figaro

Very nice  ... note the heavily reduced size of the 003 island.

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## obj 705A

heck forget about the propulsion, seriously even if it's revealed that it has steam catapults instead of electric ones I will still be equally happy about it because it would be a supercarrier with catapults. That is why ulike the pessimists who occasionally get things wrong for example that China would have 10 aircraft carriers which I have always said will happen, I rarely considered the pessimist prediction to be the safer (or realistic) one. And if I'm wrong then that's fine because I will still not have the slightest disappointment in whatever the ship ends up with. unlike others who don't want to be just a little bit more optimistic for fear they would be disappointed if the ship ends up being not as capable as they hoped, I would never get disappointed no matter the technology it uses, the only case in which I would get disappointed is if all our predictions & confirmations end being false and we find out that it still uses a ski jump instead of catapults!

obviously that was just a pure hypothesis because it's pretty much confirmed it will have EMALS and no one ever diasgrees on that. regarding the propulsion I'm still fifty fifty on whether it will be nuclear on conventional.


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## ChineseTiger1986

obj 705A said:


> heck forget about the propulsion, seriously even if it's revealed that it has steam catapults instead of electric ones I will still be equally happy about it because it would be a supercarrier with catapults. That is why ulike the pessimists who occasionally get things wrong for example that China would have 10 aircraft carriers which I have always said will happen, I rarely considered the pessimist prediction to be the safer (or realistic) one. And if I'm wrong then that's fine because I will still not have the slightest disappointment in whatever the ship ends up with. unlike others who don't want to be just a little bit more optimistic for fear they would be disappointed if the ship ends up being not as capable as they hoped, I would never get disappointed no matter the technology it uses, the only case in which I would get disappointed is if all our predictions & confirmations end being false and we find out that it still uses a ski jump instead of catapults!
> 
> obviously that was just a pure hypothesis because it's pretty much confirmed it will have EMALS and no one ever diasgrees on that. regarding the propulsion I'm still fifty fifty on whether it will be nuclear on conventional.



Soon, there will be a big update on the progression of the Type 003.

And by the end of 2020, the puzzle should be solved.

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## LKJ86

Via @卫星图像发烧员 from Weibo

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## obj 705A

This picture is clear enough but the ship itself has been so heavily blurred that we see absolutely zero detail. Just wtf! The only thing this picture tells us is that the contruction of the ship is progressing which is like the biggest ****ing *duh* obviously the construction is progressing we know that without a satellite pic.
These kind of pics were they "leak" a picture of a weapon and then blur the F out of it just pisses me off, if it's that much of a sensitive information then it shouldn't be leaked in the first place.

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## PeacefulWar

obj 705A said:


> This picture is clear enough but the ship itself has been so heavily blurred that we see absolutely zero detail. Just wtf! The only thing this picture tells us is that the contruction of the ship is progressing which is like the biggest ****ing *duh* obviously the construction is progressing we know that without a satellite pic.
> These kind of pics were they "leak" a picture of a weapon and then blur the F out of it just pisses me off, if it's that much of a sensitive information then it shouldn't be leaked in the first place.


It's not about sensitive info.
It's rather the guy is playing a guessing game with his fans.
Unblurred image will be released in few days usually.

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## obj 705A

PeacefulWar said:


> It's not about sensitive info.
> It's rather the guy is playing a guessing game with his fans.
> Unblurred image will be released in few days usually.



Well may be it's like what you say & this is just a tease. If it wasn't blurred then we could clearly see the engine room.


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## Figaro

PeacefulWar said:


> It's not about sensitive info.
> It's rather the guy is playing a guessing game with his fans.
> Unblurred image will be released in few days usually.


Actually it could be because of the sensitivity ... a lot of pictures released of the 002 carrier back in the day were also blurred.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> Actually it could be because of the sensitivity ... a lot of pictures released of the 002 carrier back in the day were also blurred.



The transparency of the Type 002 was much higher than the Type 003.

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## PeacefulWar

Figaro said:


> Actually it could be because of the sensitivity ... a lot of pictures released of the 002 carrier back in the day were also blurred.


Nah, these are comecial satellite images.
I didn't try myself. But I'm pretty sure you can also access such latest image via paying services like Planet Lab


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## Figaro

PeacefulWar said:


> Nah, these are comecial satellite images.
> I didn't try myself. But I'm pretty sure you can also access such latest image via paying services like Planet Lab


It is interesting why we are not getting photos from the side or ground level. I would *really* prefer these pictures, like we got with 002.

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## lcloo

The photo poster forgot to blur the staging area, we can still see details of some modules not yet hoisted into the dry dock.

Side note: There seem to be no new modules in progress for destroyers, may be they are re-tooling for some new designs, or the order book for DDG has been largely cleared, or both of the above.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293421874928640003

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## lcloo

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293421874928640003


Looks like a highly manoeuverable hull, something like ferry, ice breaker, exploration ship etc. Definitely not bulk carrier/oil tanker/container ship/navy war ship/ aircraft carrier/amphibious warfare ship etc.

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## ozranger

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293421874928640003



One guy active in CJDBY, probably an insider to the ship builder, said the place has been changed to build civilian ships. They are too busy to leave the place vacant for long.

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## Deino

ozranger said:


> One guy active in CJDBY, probably an insider to the ship builder, said the place has been changed to build civilian ships. They are too busy to leave the place vacant for long.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293796652902481920


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## LKJ86

Via @卫星图像发烧员 from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 660688
> 
> Via @卫星图像发烧员 from Weibo





*ARRRRRRG *... why so much pixelated!???


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## Daniel808

There is someone do Length measurement of this Type 003 Aircraft Carrier.

According to his measurement, Type 003 AC will have at least 315 m Waterline Length with curent modules in dry dock.


If his analysis is true, then this is amazing. That's mean Type 003 AC will have same Waterline length with Nimitz class.




From 卫星图像发烧员@Weibo

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> *ARRRRRRG *... why so much pixelated!???


I don't think they intentionally manipulated the photo this time ... most likely got low resolution photo because they didn't pay for the commercial satellite service. Otherwise very good progress .


----------



## Figaro

New updates

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Figaro said:


> New updates
> View attachment 660878
> View attachment 660879



Is this China's 5th carrier under construction?


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## Figaro

Austin Powers said:


> Is this China's 5th carrier under construction?


Obviously third after 001 and 002.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Figaro said:


> Obviously third after 001 and 002.



5th flat top after 001, 002, two Type 075 in between


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## Figaro

Austin Powers said:


> 5th flat top after 001, 002, two Type 075 in between


Please don't bring the aircraft carrier vs LHD discussion here again ... @Ultima Thule, he still insists the 075 constitutes a formal aircraft carrier

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## Daniel808

Austin Powers said:


> Is this China's 5th carrier under construction?



If you count Type 075 LHD as Helo Carrier. Then the Total Number is 6th.

China currently have/building 3 Aircraft Carrier (Type 001, 002, 003) and 3 LHD/Helo Carrier (Type 075)


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## PeacefulWar

Let's not go that direction again.
@Deino thread ban him please


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## Ultima Thule

Figaro said:


> Please don't bring the aircraft carrier vs LHD discussion here again ... @Ultima Thule, he still insists the 075 constitutes a formal aircraft carrier


Ignore him bro or put him in your ignore list if you like

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## Daniel808

PeacefulWar said:


> Let's not go that direction again.
> @Deino thread ban him please



Yes, better discuss about waterline length of Type 003 AC.
According to measurement of the current modules at dry dock, it will have at least 315m waterline length.

So, according to this length. There is high probability that Type 003 will have 95,000 -100,000 Tonnes tonnage.

A Supercarrier indeed..

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## Figaro

Daniel808 said:


> Yes, better discuss about waterline length of Type 003 AC.
> According to measurement of the current modules at dry dock, it will have at least 315m waterline length.
> 
> So, according to this length. There is high probability that Type 003 will have 95,000 -100,000 Tonnes tonnage.
> 
> A Supercarrier indeed..


I think it is too tentative to accurately estimate the waterline length at this point in time ...


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## PeacefulWar

Daniel808 said:


> Yes, better discuss about waterline length of Type 003 AC.
> According to measurement of the current modules at dry dock, it will have at least 315m waterline length.
> 
> So, according to this length. There is high probability that Type 003 will have 95,000 -100,000 Tonnes tonnage.
> 
> A Supercarrier indeed..


Hmmm I have doubts on this tonneage.


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## Daniel808

Figaro said:


> I think it is too tentative to accurately estimate the waterline length at this point in time ...



Yes, I'm agree with you.

From my point of view, if the huge VLCC beside her indeed have length of 370-400m.
Then The Type 003 AC will have at least 310-315m Waterline length.

But yes, we need damn clearer images for this one. Hopefully, with the bow modules already connected

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## Deino

Here's another image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier under construction dated 12th August. It is not dramatically better than the one posted yesterday but at least a bit clearer so that at least the engine's rooms are visible.

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## Deino

Here's an interesting question ... what do you think?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294144695677751297

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294148375982612480

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## PeacefulWar

Deino said:


> Here's an interesting question ... what do you think?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294144695677751297
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294148375982612480


“ready" mean launch the ship or ready to assembly?


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## Deino

PeacefulWar said:


> “ready" mean launch the ship or ready to assembly?




In my calculation/estimation I took his question as "ready for launch"!


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## PeacefulWar

Deino said:


> In my calculation/estimation I took his question as "ready for launch"!


So roughly 2 years from now in your estimation?


----------



## Deino

PeacefulWar said:


> So roughly 2 years from now in your estimation?




Yes, a bit less


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## Figaro

PeacefulWar said:


> So roughly 2 years from now in your estimation?


August/September 2015 to April 2017 launch is around 1.5 years.


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## LKJ86

Figaro said:


> August/September 2015 to April 2017 launch is around 1.5 years.


There is difference in building between Dalian and Jiangnan.


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## Figaro

LKJ86 said:


> There is difference in building between Dalian and Jiangnan.


Should JNCX be faster then?


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## LKJ86

Figaro said:


> Should JNCX be faster then?


Obviously

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## ChineseTiger1986

Daniel808 said:


> Yes, better discuss about waterline length of Type 003 AC.
> According to measurement of the current modules at dry dock, it will have at least 315m waterline length.
> 
> So, according to this length. There is high probability that Type 003 will have 95,000 -100,000 Tonnes tonnage.
> 
> A Supercarrier indeed..



Here is some tonnage references for the US supercarriers.

CVN-68: 88,000 metric tons full load

CVN-76: 98,900 metric tons full load

CVN-79: 99,201 long tons full load


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## PeacefulWar

Figaro said:


> August/September 2015 to April 2017 launch is around 1.5 years.


But the laid down was started drom March or April 2015 I believe?
Which is roughly the same stage of current 003 statues.


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## Figaro

PeacefulWar said:


> But the laid down was started drom March or April 2015 I believe?
> Which is roughly the same stage of current 003 statues.


If I'm not mistaken, the construction progress between the 002 and 003 is not directly comparable because Jiangnan and Dalian use different module assembly processes. I think given the current satellite photos that the 003s progress is around the 002s progress in August/September 2015 is pretty credible.

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## LKJ86

Via @瘦驼 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 660908
> 
> Via @瘦驼 from Weibo

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## Deino

Seems as if the modules are not connected yet.


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## PeacefulWar

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 660911


This one much better.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Figaro said:


> Please don't bring the aircraft carrier vs LHD discussion here again ... @Ultima Thule, he still insists the 075 constitutes a formal aircraft carrier



It's a flat top. You can call it an aircraft carrier if you so wish.

https://thediplomat.com/2014/04/does-the-us-navy-have-10-or-19-aircraft-carriers/


----------



## Ultima Thule

Austin Powers said:


> It's a flat top. You can call it an aircraft carrier if you so wish.
> 
> https://thediplomat.com/2014/04/does-the-us-navy-have-10-or-19-aircraft-carriers/


And tell us why military experts call this class of ships as a LHD???


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ultima Thule said:


> And tell us why military experts call this class of ships as a LHD???



LHD is a kind of carrier. Just like helicopter is a kind of aircraft. Actually, it can carry VTOL drones, not only helicopters.


----------



## Figaro

Austin Powers said:


> LHD is a kind of carrier. Just like helicopter is a kind of aircraft. Actually, it can carry VTOL drones, not only helicopters.


@Deino can you prevent this individual from derailing the thread again?


Ultima Thule said:


> And tell us why military experts call this class of ships as a LHD???


Please dont respond to him bro. Its just going to be a repeat of what happened last week

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## Ultima Thule

Austin Powers said:


> LHD is a kind of carrier. Just like helicopter is a kind of aircraft. Actually, it can carry VTOL drones, not only helicopters.


Helicopter carrier not aircraft carrier like USS NIMTIZ or Chinese carrier that can carry conventional j15 this is LHD not a aircraft carrier but helicopter carrier


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## Deino

Austin Powers said:


> LHD is a kind of carrier. Just like helicopter is a kind of aircraft. Actually, it can carry VTOL drones, not only helicopters.




*PLEASE stop with this provocative and completely useless discussion. No-one calls an LHD an aircraft carrier at least not a regular one and this is the 003 carrier thread as such it is off topic.*

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## Deino

A new heavily censored image showing (or in this case hiding :-( ) the Type 003 aircraft carrier under construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai.
Given the view, this guy must be standing somewhere the small red x is marked looking right into dry dock no. 4.

(Image via by78/SDF)

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## LKJ86

August 15, 2020








Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> August 15, 2020
> View attachment 661166
> 
> View attachment 661169
> 
> Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo




Wow ... and what does this tell us about its propulsion system?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Wow ... and what does this tell us about its propulsion system?



The propulsion room looks at least 100 meters long, whereas the one for the Type 002 is under 80 meters.

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## Tamiyah

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The propulsion room looks at least 100 meters long, whereas the one for the Type 002 is under 80 meters.


Sharp eyes I must say. So any idea about what type of propulsion would it utilize.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Tamiyah said:


> Sharp eyes I must say. So any idea about what type of propulsion would it utilize.



It becomes bigger because the steam turbines of the Type 003 has also become bigger.


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## Tamiyah

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It becomes bigger because the steam turbines of the Type 003 has also become bigger.


Wasn't 003 going to use Nuclear Propulsion..?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Tamiyah said:


> Wasn't 003 going to use Nuclear Propulsion..?



It is expected, twin nuclear reactors + four steam turbines, but I won't draw the final conclusion until the ship has taken into shape.

Because some fanboys will rant after me.

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## Tamiyah

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It is expected, but I won't draw the final conclusion until the ship has taken into shape.
> 
> Because some fanboys will rant after me.


Okay. Thank you sir.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Tamiyah said:


> Okay. Thank you sir.



The propulsion options for the Type 003 are really limited.

The gas turbine is out of option, and only options remained are the nuclear + steam turbine or boiler + steam turbine.

The boiler + steam turbine is an outdated option, and the PLAN has been very dissatisfied with the Type 002, and they don't want to have a third ship with that type of propulsion system.


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## Tamiyah

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The propulsion options for the Type 003 are really limited.
> 
> The gas turbine is out of option, and only options remained are the nuclear + steam turbine or boiler + steam turbine.
> 
> The boiler + steam turbine is an outdated option, and the PLAN has been very dissatisfied with the Type 002, and they don't want to have a third ship with that type of propulsion system.


Okay then. Let's wait and find out what is cooking.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Tamiyah said:


> Okay then. Let's wait and find out what is cooking.



Soon, definitely by the end of 2020.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The propulsion options for the Type 003 are really limited.
> 
> The gas turbine is out of option, and only options remained are the nuclear + steam turbine or boiler + steam turbine.
> 
> The boiler + steam turbine is an outdated option, and the PLAN has been very dissatisfied with the Type 002, and they don't want to have a third ship with that type of propulsion system.


When was the PLAN very "dissatisfied" with the 002? Could you provide more details ...


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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> When was the PLAN very "dissatisfied" with the 002? Could you provide more details ...



The Type 002 was originally designated as a Chinese version of the Kitty Hawk class, but later it turned out to be a mere upgrade of the Type 001. Because China has skipped the steam catapult for its third carrier, most likely the boiler powered propulsion as well.

So the PLAN doesn't want another carrier with ski-jump, they also don't want its propulsion to be powered by the conventional boilers.

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## ZeEa5KPul

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 002 was originally designated as a Chinese version of the Kitty Hawk class


How so? It was always going to be just a modernization of the 001. It has no catapults, how could it be anything else?


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> but later it turned out to be a mere upgrade of the Type 001.


That's what anyone reasonable expected it to be.


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## ChineseTiger1986

ZeEa5KPul said:


> How so? It was always going to be just a modernization of the 001. It has no catapults, how could it be anything else?
> 
> That's what anyone reasonable expected it to be.



Type 001 - Liaoning

Type 002 - Red Kitty Hawk

Type 003 - Red Nimitz or Ford

The original Type 002 has likely been completely substituted by the current CV-17.

BTW, we are only few months away, and we will soon find out what it will look like.


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## ZeEa5KPul

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Type 001 - Liaoning
> 
> Type 002 - Red Kitty Hawk
> 
> Type 003 - Red Nimitz or Ford
> 
> The original Type 002 has likely been completely substituted by the current CV-17.
> 
> BTW, we are only few months away, and we will soon find out what it will look like.


TBH I don't really have a dog in this particular fight. I would be thrilled if 003 was nuke powered but I wouldn't bet on it. In any event it's not a hill I want to die on. As you said, we'll soon see.

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## TruthHurtz

ZeEa5KPul said:


> How so? It was always going to be just a modernization of the 001. It has no catapults, how could it be anything else?
> 
> That's what anyone reasonable expected it to be.



No, PLAN didn't want to wait for Type 002 carrier to enter service so they demanded a modified Liaoning class be inducted into service as a stopgap.

The original plan was to jump straight to 85,000 ton CATOBAR carrier from Liaoning.

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## Figaro

TruthHurtz said:


> No, PLAN didn't want to wait for Type 002 carrier to enter service so they demanded a modified Liaoning class be inducted into service as a stopgap.
> 
> The original plan was to jump straight to 85,000 ton CATOBAR carrier from Liaoning.


Actually if I'm not mistaken, it was the Chinese government that wanted an aircraft carrier quickly. The PLAN was content with waiting for the CATOBAR carrier but the CCP leadership wanted a carrier as soon as possible, which is how the 002 was born.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The 350 meters dry dock section has been nearly fulfilled, and if we remove the gap between the modules, I think the waterline section in the end will be around 320 meters, and the flight deck will be no less than 335 meters.

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## JSCh

From big cat,

齐天大猫哥手绘专用号
32分钟前 来自 iPhone客户端
回复@遥远的它们:我国核动力船三步走已经成定局，第一步海工产品已经交付使用一年，第二步核动力特种船巳经下水准备交付，第二条准备下水（注意特种船可没限定破冰船），第三步的核动力航母在几年之后。这和美帝没关系，美帝一样搞个八堆企业。而我们相应能力的核动力特种船持续出来。请注意第一第二步已经实现了。​*Qitian big cat brother hand-painted special number
32 minutes ago from the iPhone client*

Reply to @遥远的They: The three-step process of our nuclear-powered ships development process is a foregone conclusion and underway. The first step of having marine nuclear propulsion products have already been delivered for one year, the second step of having nuclear-powered special purpose ship has been launched and is ready for delivery, and the second ship is ready to be launched (note that special purpose ships may not be limited to icebreakers), the third step of nuclear-powered aircraft carrier would be a few years later. How China choose this steps has nothing to do with the U.S., who has also chosen to set up eight reactors enterprises. And our nuclear-powered special purpose ships with corresponding capabilities continue to come out. Please note that the first and second steps have already been implemented.

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## LKJ86

Via @军戈飞扬 from Weibo

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## PeacefulWar

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 661427
> 
> Via @军戈飞扬 from Weibo


It's a blurred satellite image.
What else can we get from this image?


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## jaybird

JSCh said:


> From big cat,
> 
> 齐天大猫哥手绘专用号
> 32分钟前 来自 iPhone客户端
> 回复@遥远的它们:我国核动力船三步走已经成定局，第一步海工产品已经交付使用一年，第二步核动力特种船巳经下水准备交付，第二条准备下水（注意特种船可没限定破冰船），第三步的核动力航母在几年之后。这和美帝没关系，美帝一样搞个八堆企业。而我们相应能力的核动力特种船持续出来。请注意第一第二步已经实现了。​*Qitian big cat brother hand-painted special number
> 32 minutes ago from the iPhone client*
> 
> Reply to @遥远的They: The three-step process of our nuclear-powered ships development process is a foregone conclusion and underway. The first step of having marine nuclear propulsion products have already been delivered for one year, the second step of having nuclear-powered special purpose ship has been launched and is ready for delivery, and the second ship is ready to be launched (note that special purpose ships may not be limited to icebreakers), the third step of nuclear-powered aircraft carrier would be a few years later. How China choose this steps has nothing to do with the U.S., who has also chosen to set up eight reactors enterprises. And our nuclear-powered special purpose ships with corresponding capabilities continue to come out. Please note that the first and second steps have already been implemented.



In that case, I hope that special purpose ship is the Arsenal ship.

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## ChineseTiger1986

JSCh said:


> From big cat,
> 
> 齐天大猫哥手绘专用号
> 32分钟前 来自 iPhone客户端
> 回复@遥远的它们:我国核动力船三步走已经成定局，第一步海工产品已经交付使用一年，第二步核动力特种船巳经下水准备交付，第二条准备下水（注意特种船可没限定破冰船），第三步的核动力航母在几年之后。这和美帝没关系，美帝一样搞个八堆企业。而我们相应能力的核动力特种船持续出来。请注意第一第二步已经实现了。​*Qitian big cat brother hand-painted special number
> 32 minutes ago from the iPhone client*
> 
> Reply to @遥远的They: The three-step process of our nuclear-powered ships development process is a foregone conclusion and underway. The first step of having marine nuclear propulsion products have already been delivered for one year, the second step of having nuclear-powered special purpose ship has been launched and is ready for delivery, and the second ship is ready to be launched (note that special purpose ships may not be limited to icebreakers), the third step of nuclear-powered aircraft carrier would be a few years later. How China choose this steps has nothing to do with the U.S., who has also chosen to set up eight reactors enterprises. And our nuclear-powered special purpose ships with corresponding capabilities continue to come out. Please note that the first and second steps have already been implemented.



He is not reliable.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Seems as if the modules are not connected yet.



In fact, the bow and stern sections are already fixated, and they will add some modules in the mid section and to weld out the gap between the modules.

So the final waterline section of the Type 003 will not be much different from 315-320 meters.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> In fact, the bow and stern sections are already fixated, and they will add some modules in the mid section and to weld out the gap between the modules.
> 
> So the final waterline section of the Type 003 will not be much different from 315-320 meters.




I don't think so - EDIT: I'm sure, I have just seen very clear recent images - and there are still very wide gaps between the modules visible so making any estimation of the final length quite moot.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> I don't think so - EDIT: I'm sure, I have just seen very clear recent images - and there are still very wide gaps between the modules visible so making any estimation of the final length quite moot.



This is what I suggested.

The position of the bow and stern will not be changed anymore, but modules in the middle could still be moving forward and backward, and they will make sure that the gap between each module will be no more than 0.4 - 0.8 meter, so they can start to weld them together into one block of hull.


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## LKJ86

Via @军戈飞扬 from Weibo

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## Deino

I slowly get the feeling the official Chinese censorship deliberately blurs the Type 003 carrier images in order to blind us spotters and analysts!?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> I slowly get the feeling the official Chinese censorship deliberately blurs the Type 003 carrier images in order to blind us spotters and analysts!?



All modules of the waterline have been lined up together except the bulbous bow.


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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> All modules of the waterline have been lined up together except the bulbous bow.




Yes, but my concern is that by looking at the high resolution images you clearly see the gaps and as such it will be interesting to see how much they will be moved together during the connection...


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Yes, but my concern is that by looking at the high resolution images you clearly see the gaps and as such it will be interesting to see how much they will be moved together during the connection...



Even you remove all the gaps, this ship will still have the waterline of the latest US supercarriers.

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## Figaro

PeacefulWar said:


> It's a blurred satellite image.
> What else can we get from this image?


Length measurements  ... so far, the aircraft carrier looks to be in the range of American supercarriers. Of course, we will only know this definitively once all the modules have been put in place but nonetheless still very exciting.

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## samsara

Be much relaxed, unlike those subs made in Huludao facility, sooner or later we will all find out the dimensions and power propulsion used.

Folks are so curious here to find out the deferred realities while keep quiet, not wondering what all the new production facilities set up in Huludao do nowadays. Do they all sit idly there all these years since its coverage by media in April 2017? Funny!

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## ChineseLuver

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296035828783706112)

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## LKJ86

https://www.zhihu.com/people/pao-lei-chang

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## luciferdd

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 662076
> 
> https://www.zhihu.com/people/pao-lei-chang



A very clear pic,it worth 50W!


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## samsara

ChineseLuver said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296035828783706112)



Posted on 2020.08.19
By 砲雷長 Pao Lei Chang

China's third aircraft carrier is being built at the dry dock of Changxing Island shipyard in the south of the Yangtze River.
The module manufacturing area has recently been expanded to include a *third assembly line*.

_-skipped the less contemporary part, less relevant/interesting-_

*As of August 15*, there were eight modules in the dry dock. These modules represent the various parts of the type 003 hull from the bow to the stern, with a length of about 22 to 47 meters.
The current cumulative length of the module is *about 265 meters*, indicating that additional modules will be required.

At least one additional module, 16 meters long, is located near the transfer area and is expected to be installed behind the current bow.

The hull modules of Type 003 are produced in the assembly area east of the shipyard, which has *recently been expanded*. The number and scope of the manufacturing facilities indicate that *hull modules for other ship types will also be produced there*.

Between April and July, a *new assembly line was added* to the east side of the processing plant for the Type 003 hull module.

*There are now three module assembly lines* that can work independently or jointly to build hull modules for Type 003. The extra space also allows more modules to be stored in the processing plant before moving to the containerization area near the dry dock.

In addition, new construction work is under way on the western side of the nearby harbour.

*To evaluate:
*
Once the hull modules in the dry dock are connected, it will produce an aircraft carrier similar to the Type 002 observed in Dalian in September 2015. It took about six months for the Type 002 to reach this completion level.

As the modules already exist, it is unlikely that it will take five months to assemble the lower hull, which will allow the lower section of the Type 003 to be completed faster than the Type 002. Type 002 did use a certain degree of modular construction, but it was limited to the upper deck, as most of the lower hull was built in a dry dock.

It took about 19 months for the Type 002 to be built and launched. Once the Type 003 reaches this stage after the module connection, a similar 19 month schedule is not impossible, which indicates that the Type 003 may be launched in two years. With the special facilities for the production of hull modules, it is possible to build faster.

The shipyard built a 250 meter long floating barge and moved it to a basin near the module assembly area, which led to speculation that the module would be transferred to the dry dock by waterway.

However, the modules built so far appear to have been transferred to the quay by road. It is not clear whether the size or weight of some of the upper deck modules will need to be transported by water, or whether the barge is not related to the construction of the third aircraft carrier.

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## Daniel808

Someone in SDF, make calculation





What do you think?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Daniel808 said:


> Someone in SDF, make calculation
> View attachment 662163
> 
> 
> What do you think?



There is a missing module in the bow section, and based on the satellite image of August 18, the module was already put in the place.

I still insist its final waterline will be around 315-320 meters, and 335 meters for the flight deck.

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## samsara

From 逆襲 @Horobeyo on 2020-08-20:

超大leeone的主题里也从中/苏和美国航母的水线长宽比上推测了003水线长度，他推算出水线宽度是40米，则长度在305～313米。然而老哥thefirstpin发图通过精确划线，得出水线宽度是39.6米，我觉得这个数据很准，接近真相了。动力舱分段顶部宽度确实是41米以上，但是下面带外倾角。

https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2642708&extra=page=1

The 超大leeone also extrapolates the 003 waterline length from the ratio of length to width of the Chinese/Soviet and American aircraft carriers. He calculates that the waterline width is 40 meters and the length is 305 ~ 313 meters. However, the first pin map shows that the waterline width gives a measurement of 39.6 meters, which I think is accurate and close to the truth. The top width of power module section is indeed more than 41 meters, but it has a camber angle below.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296236816886972417

至此，基本得出003的水线长宽，为304～305米×39.6米，小鹰级的水线长宽是990英尺（301.95米）×130英尺（39.65），主尺度两者几乎一样大。但小鹰是三段100米长的舰首、动力舱、舰尾。003是113米的舰首，87米的动力舱，87米的舰尾，动力舱和舰尾较短，舰尾很宽，舰首很长应该是为了在总长有限时减小阻力

So far, the waterline length and width of 003 is basically obtained, which is 304 ~ 305 meters × 39.6 meters. The waterline length and width of the Kitty Hawk class is 301.95m × 39.65m, and the main dimensions are almost the same. However, the Kitty Hawk has three sections of 100-meter-long bow, power cabin and stern. The 003 has a bow of 113 meters, a power cabin of 87 meters, and a stern of 87 meters. The power cabin and stern are shorter, and the stern is very wide, and the long bow is supposed to reduce resistance when the total length is limited.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296238254224621568

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## ChineseTiger1986

samsara said:


> From 逆襲 @Horobeyo on 2020-08-20:
> 
> 超大leeone的主题里也从中/苏和美国航母的水线长宽比上推测了003水线长度，他推算出水线宽度是40米，则长度在305～313米。然而老哥thefirstpin发图通过精确划线，得出水线宽度是39.6米，我觉得这个数据很准，接近真相了。动力舱分段顶部宽度确实是41米以上，但是下面带外倾角。
> 
> https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2642708&extra=page=1
> 
> The 超大leeone also extrapolates the 003 waterline length from the ratio of length to width of the Chinese/Soviet and American aircraft carriers. He calculates that the waterline width is 40 meters and the length is 305 ~ 313 meters. However, the first pin map shows that the waterline width gives a measurement of 39.6 meters, which I think is accurate and close to the truth. The top width of power module section is indeed more than 41 meters, but it has a camber angle below.
> 
> View attachment 662275
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296236816886972417
> 
> 至此，基本得出003的水线长宽，为304～305米×39.6米，小鹰级的水线长宽是990英尺（301.95米）×130英尺（39.65），主尺度两者几乎一样大。但小鹰是三段100米长的舰首、动力舱、舰尾。003是113米的舰首，87米的动力舱，87米的舰尾，动力舱和舰尾较短，舰尾很宽，舰首很长应该是为了在总长有限时减小阻力
> 
> So far, the waterline length and width of 003 is basically obtained, which is 304 ~ 305 meters × 39.6 meters. The waterline length and width of the Kitty Hawk class is 301.95m × 39.65m, and the main dimensions are almost the same. However, the Kitty Hawk has three sections of 100-meter-long bow, power cabin and stern. The 003 has a bow of 113 meters, a power cabin of 87 meters, and a stern of 87 meters. The power cabin and stern are shorter, and the stern is very wide, and the long bow is supposed to reduce resistance when the total length is limited.
> 
> View attachment 662274
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296238254224621568



leeone = fzgfzy

He is more concerning to salvage his sinking reputation than telling the truth.

The debacle of the Type 075 has absolutely destroyed his reputation.

And the Type 003 will become a final nail to the coffin, and we shall see this very soon.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> leeone = fzgfzy
> 
> He is more concerning to salvage his sinking reputation than telling the truth.
> 
> The debacle of the Type 075 has absolutely destroyed his reputation.
> 
> And the Type 003 will become a final nail to the coffin, and we shall see this very soon.




Interesting, but it seems some of these former Big-Stars/ Big-Shrimps are now falling in their reputation ... for Pupu and his latest claims concerning the J-20 I've heard similar concerns.


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## Figaro

Deino said:


> Interesting, but it seems some of these former Big-Stars/ Big-Shrimps are now falling in their reputation ... for Pupu and his latest claims concerning the J-20 I've heard similar concerns.


I don't see how Pupu is not credible other than one SDF poster who was ranting about him. He claimed Pupu was 99% wrong of the time and is a fraud but did not offer any evidence to back that up. Personally, I really don't see how 60 J-20s at the end of the year being a ridiculous claim at all.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Interesting, but it seems some of these former Big-Stars/ Big-Shrimps are now falling in their reputation ... for Pupu and his latest claims concerning the J-20 I've heard similar concerns.



Of course, the Type 003 will indeed become the biggest legend killer in the history of the Chinese military enthusiasts, over 90% of big shrimps will get annihilated.

Even a former military insider like POP3 will not be immune. Since POP3 has already made a bad prediction in the EMALS vs steam catapult contest, and will likely lose again in the reactor vs boiler contest.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Of course, the Type 003 will indeed become the biggest legend killer in the history of the Chinese military enthusiasts, over 90% of big shrimps will get annihilated.
> 
> Even a former military insider like POP3 will not be immune. Since POP3 has already made a bad prediction in the EMALS vs steam catapult contest, and will likely lose again in the reactor vs boiler contest.


To be fair, the plan was originally steam. At that time, no one thought the 003 was going to be EM because everyone was in the dark regarding Ma Weiming's progress.

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## Dante80

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Even a former military insider like POP3 will not be immune. Since POP3 has already made a bad prediction in the EMALS vs steam catapult contest, and will likely lose again in the reactor vs boiler contest.



We pretty much already knew that the steam catapult system had completed development and was ready to be built when the change was made. This at the end set the whole project back by more than two years (if you care to sit down and count the delays). POP3s prediction was right.


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## Deino

Figaro said:


> I don't see how Pupu is not credible other than one SDF poster who was ranting about him. He claimed Pupu was 99% wrong of the time and is a fraud but did not offer any evidence to back that up. Personally, I really don't see how 60 J-20s at the end of the year being a ridiculous claim at all.




I don't think it is ranting but being more and more critical and no longer taking everything for gospel. Point is - and IMO it is always a good point to even question such high value sources from time to time - that even the best one sometimes looses his network and as such becomes less credible due to changing networks. Just look: When Yefim Gordon started writing books on Russian aviation in the late 1980/90s he was the god father of all-knowing esp due to his connections to the old OKBs, but those are now all gone and since then he is a falling star with sometimes highly questionable results.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Dante80 said:


> We pretty much already knew that the steam catapult system had completed development and was ready to be built when the change was made. This at the end set the whole project back by more than two years (if you care to sit down and count the delays). POP3s prediction was right.



Some recent information suggests that China had decided to go after EMALS for the third carrier as early as 2012.

So POP3's prediction was correct in the pre-2010s era.


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## Figaro

Deino said:


> I don't think it is ranting but being more and more critical and no longer taking everything for gospel. Point is - and IMO it is always a good point to even question such high value sources from time to time - that even the best one sometimes looses his network and as such becomes less credible due to changing networks. Just look: When Yefim Gordon started writing books on Russian aviation in the late 1980/90s he was the god father of all-knowing esp due to his connections to the old OKBs, but those are now all gone and since then he is a falling star with sometimes highly questionable results.


I agree but I don't understand why his claim of 60 J-20s by the end of this year was so non credible. Even 60 J-20s today is not some outlandish figure like a 240 kN WS-15 engine. My point is we should not take anything for gospel but I really don't see anything ridiculous about Pupu's claim (or his track record for that matter), as the SDF user implied. The J-20s with WS-10s have been mass produced since 2019 (or even late 2018) and we have not seen a single one in operation. This alone should tell us how far the observed J-20s numbers are from reality.


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Some recent information suggests that China had decided to go after EMALS for the third carrier as early as 2012.
> 
> So POP3's prediction was correct in the pre-2010s era.


Pop3 is still honestly the most credible source on the PLAN; he only retired from CSSC in 2016 IIRC. As such, I still think his words bring value.

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## Dante80

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Some recent information suggests that China had decided to go after EMALS for the third carrier as early as 2012.
> 
> So POP3's prediction was correct in the pre-2010s era.



*It is pretty certain that China was developing EMALS for many years now (at least a decade, I'd say).* This is different than saying that China had locked EMALS for 003 from the start. It is far more probable that EMALS was being developed "for the future" with Steam LS being used in the meantime, and then a big TRL breakthrough happened with EMALS that made the interim solution obsolete/redundant.

In any case, the whole argument is semantics driven (from me at least)..what I was trying to say is that POP3 was not shooting in the dark when talking about 003 being planned for Steam Catapults. He was right on the money, and THEN things changed.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296409235455201287

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296409529924628485

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## samsara

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296409235455201287
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296409529924628485


The 003 alignment comparison:


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## obj 705A

those two missing modules (3,4) are probably around 30 meters in length combined, so if we add that to the total length of the other modules then the length is around 300 meters approximately, however this is without the bulbous bow right? in which case the ship would actually be longer than the Ford.

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## ChineseTiger1986

obj 705A said:


> those two missing modules (3,4) are probably around 30 meters in length combined, so if we add that to the total length of the other modules then the length is around 300 meters approximately, however this is without the bulbous bow right? in which case the ship would actually be longer than the Ford.



Here is the first half of the bulbous bow.

The ship's waterline without the bulbous bow should be close to 300 meters (293 meters for the Ford class, which is 317 meters in total including a 24 meters bulbous bow), and here is 286 meters with one or two missing modules in the bow section.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The ACP100 is an integral reactor.

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## samsara

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The ACP100 is an integral reactor.
> 
> 
> View attachment 662701


*CNNC's ACP100 SMR: Technique Features and Progress in China*

Authored by XU Bin (xubilly@163.com) | Nuclear Power Institute of China

_13th INPRO Dialogue Forum on Legal and Institutional Issues in the Global Deployment of Small Modular Reactors
18-21 October *2016*, IAEA Headquarters Vienna - Austria_

CONTENTS

1. Background
2. ACP100 technique features
3. Progress of ACP100
4. ACP SMR Series Products
5. Governmental Support & International Cooperation
6. Our Team

1. Background

1.2 About ACP100

• An Integrative type SMR, 125MWe, is being developed by *CNNC (China National Nuclear Corporation)*.
• Large LOCAs (loss-of-coolant accidents) are physically impossible.
• On utilization of existing PWR technology and verified passive systems to cope with the consequences of accident events.
• Flexibility for different purposed application.






...

2.2 Reactor type & Technique route

• Adopt integrative layout instead of the traditional distributed layout. Eliminate large LOCA accident by design.

• Eliminate the technique risk to the most extent, by utilizing existing PWR technique storage and industry
foundation, and verified new techniques.






(...)

Full PDF accessible:
https://nucleus.iaea.org/sites/INPRO/df13/Presentations/011_CNNC's ACP100 SMR-Technique Features and Progress in China.pdf

* SMR: small modular reactor

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## ChineseTiger1986

samsara said:


> *CNNC's ACP100 SMR: Technique Features and Progress in China*
> 
> Authored by XU Bin (xubilly@163.com) | Nuclear Power Institute of China
> 
> _13th INPRO Dialogue Forum on Legal and Institutional Issues in the Global Deployment of Small Modular Reactors
> 18-21 October *2016*, IAEA Headquarters Vienna - Austria_
> 
> CONTENTS
> 
> 1. Background
> 2. ACP100 technique features
> 3. Progress of ACP100
> 4. ACP SMR Series Products
> 5. Governmental Support & International Cooperation
> 6. Our Team
> 
> 1. Background
> 
> 1.2 About ACP100
> 
> • An Integrative type SMR, 125MWe, is being developed by *CNNC (China National Nuclear Corporation)*.
> • Large LOCAs (loss-of-coolant accidents) are physically impossible.
> • On utilization of existing PWR technology and verified passive systems to cope with the consequences of accident events.
> • Flexibility for different purposed application.
> 
> View attachment 662742
> 
> ...
> 
> 2.2 Reactor type & Technique route
> 
> • Adopt integrative layout instead of the traditional distributed layout. Eliminate large LOCA accident by design.
> 
> • Eliminate the technique risk to the most extent, by utilizing existing PWR technique storage and industry
> foundation, and verified new techniques.
> 
> View attachment 662741
> 
> 
> (...)
> 
> Full PDF accessible:
> https://nucleus.iaea.org/sites/INPRO/df13/Presentations/011_CNNC's ACP100 SMR-Technique Features and Progress in China.pdf
> 
> * SMR: small modular reactor



Yep, CPC has only revealed the civilian one, but we all know that the military one has always been kept in secret.

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## samsara

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yep, *CPC* has only revealed the civilian one, but we all know that the military one has always been kept in secret.


@ChineseTiger1986, why you keep on using the term "CPC" to denote the nation? That's a common, ill-conceived practice by the Five-Eyes media nowadays *to try to draw a line* between the ruling party & its political system (CPC) vis-à-vis the nation of China and the Chinese people.

Those very skillful propagandists will lie to their teeth to say out aloud that they only detest the ruling party & political system of China today but not the nation itself moreover its people. But they hate seeing them united, prosperous, strong and being advanced... yet won't be vassal and taking orders!

I least expect to see such contemptible practice in this forum. Trust that you have no such bad intention so please drop such annoying usage.

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> @ChineseTiger1986, why you keep on using the term "CPC" to denote the nation? That's a common, ill-conceived practice by the Five-Eyes media nowadays *to try to draw a line* between the ruling party & its political system (CPC) vis-à-vis the nation of China and the Chinese people.
> 
> Those very skillful propagandists will lie to their teeth to say out aloud that they only detest the ruling party & political system of China today but not the nation itself moreover its people. But they hate seeing them united, prosperous, strong and being advanced... yet won't be vassal and taking orders!
> 
> I least expect to see such contemptible practice in this forum. Trust that you have no such bad intention so please drop such annoying usage.


Drawing a line between the party and the country does not work; on the contrary, it usually backfires and makes citizens more supportive of the party due to this perceived foreign intrusion. Such efforts did not work in the Cold War, where the West also tried to draw a wedge between the Soviet people and the ruling CPSU and it definitely will not work against China because it is much more homogenous than the USSR. Basically, this is a failed tactic.

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## ChineseTiger1986

samsara said:


> @ChineseTiger1986, why you keep on using the term "CPC" to denote the nation? That's a common, ill-conceived practice by the Five-Eyes media nowadays *to try to draw a line* between the ruling party & its political system (CPC) vis-à-vis the nation of China and the Chinese people.
> 
> Those very skillful propagandists will lie to their teeth to say out aloud that they only detest the ruling party & political system of China today but not the nation itself moreover its people. But they hate seeing them united, prosperous, strong and being advanced... yet won't be vassal and taking orders!
> 
> I least expect to see such contemptible practice in this forum. Trust that you have no such bad intention so please drop such annoying usage.



Take easy buddy, the term 'CPC' is the English term for 'TG' that we usually refer our ruling party in the Chinese military forums. 

However, the term 'CCP' is a negative connotation most referred by those hateful anti-China lunatics.

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## obj 705A

I compared the measurements of the modules 2, 3 & 4 in the two previous pics, module #3 is actually not missing, it is already in the drydock in the bow section, the missing modules are #1 & #4. 

the big module of the bow section in the drydock is composed of modules #2 & #3.

so if we take fzgfzy's measurements (I'm taking his measurements because they are the most pessimistic) and consider the length of the current modules to be 271m, then module #4 is about 17m. how long is module #1 well that is anybody's guess, if it is 5 meters in length *minus* the bulbous bow which may already be attached to it then this will make the ship as long as the Ford.

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## ChineseTiger1986

obj 705A said:


> I compared the measurements of the modules 2, 3 & 4 in the two previous pics, module #3 is actually not missing, it is already in the drydock in the bow section, the missing modules are #1 & #4.
> 
> the big module of the bow section in the drydock is composed of modules #2 & #3.
> 
> so if we take fzgfzy's measurements (I'm taking his measurements because they are the most pessimistic) and consider the length of the current modules to be 271m, then module #4 is about 17m. how long is module #1 well that is anybody's guess, if it is 5 meters in length *minus* the bulbous bow which may already be attached to it then this will make the ship as long as the Ford.



fzgfzy now claims this ship is 83,000 tonnes conventional, a 10,000 tonnes increase from his previous assertion.

Next stop, he is going to claim that this ship is 93,000 tonnes conventional, basically a Nimitz class powered by 16 boilers.

That guy is stubborn as hell, and never admit that he could be wrong.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> fzgfzy now claims this ship is 83,000 tonnes conventional, a 10,000 tonnes increase from his previous assertion.
> 
> Next stop, he is going to claim that this ship is 93,000 tonnes conventional, basically a Nimitz class powered by 16 boilers.
> 
> That guy is stubborn as hell, and never admit that he could be wrong.


The Big Shrimps have completely underestimated the 003 from day one

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> The Big Shrimps have completely underestimated the 003 from day one



Those big shrimps are now a lost cause.

It is ok to be conservative in prediction, but keep in denial even distorting the truth won't help them to regain their saving grace.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The stern section of the Type 003, and it does look exactly like this mockup.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The stern section of the Type 003, and it does look exactly like this mockup.
> 
> 
> View attachment 663425
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 663427


I will be extremely satisfied if the 003 turns to have the superstructure of the mockup

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

003 is likely conventionally powered considering China needs 10 carriers by 2025 including LHD.


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## ChineseTiger1986

The shafts that will connect the steam turbines of the Type 003.


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## LKJ86

Via @彩云香江 from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 663540
> View attachment 663541
> 
> Via @彩云香江 from Weibo





At least it seems as if no additional modules are stored under these large white movable shelters in the background of dry dock no. 4.


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## ChineseLuver

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297879431638388736)

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## zhxy



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## Figaro

zhxy said:


> View attachment 664060


A fanboy rendition unfortunately ... this does not exist.


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## PeacefulWar

zhxy said:


> View attachment 664060


I know it's just fan art.
But I like it.
I also like the name 精卫


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## lcloo

PeacefulWar said:


> I know it's just fan art.
> But I like it.
> I also like the name 精卫


Eh.... it is a bad choice of name, it reminds people of 汪精卫 .


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## ChineseTiger1986

An old but quite clear picture.

So you can make your own judgement.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> An old but quite clear picture.
> 
> So you can make your own judgement.
> 
> 
> View attachment 664285
> 
> 
> View attachment 664286


How old is this image?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> How old is this image?



late 2019 or early 2020


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## LKJ86

Via @卫星图像发烧员 from Weibo

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## ChineseTiger1986

August 28th

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## ChineseTiger1986

I let you guys to figure out by yourselves.

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## samsara

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I let you guys to figure out by yourselves.
> 
> 
> View attachment 665057
> 
> 
> View attachment 665058


In English (roughly, feel free to fix if any mistake):

(upper)

Cabin wall drawing without equipment:

A wall in the middle of a large single room (003)
Large single room (Ford)
Four rooms (002)
The Google satellite image showed that the Ford's cabin was a big single room stacked with no walls between the reactor and the turbine. The engine has no bulkhead in the middle.
It also showed that 003 has only the intermediate bulkhead, and no bulkheads between the reactor and the turbine.

(lower)

Red rectangle: heap (nuclear reactor)
Blue rectangle: turbine
Green rectangle: generator
Black circle: boiler
At first, they said the layout of the type, referring to the position of the heap and the engine, which could be seen by a person with a clear eye after carefully distinguishing the bulkheads: 002 has four rooms, Ford and 003 have large single room, the difference is obvious.

// Thanks @wulff for the correction

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## wulff

samsara said:


> In English (roughly, feel free to fix if any mistake):
> 
> (upper)
> 
> Cabin wall drawing without equipment:
> 
> A wall in the middle of a large single room (003)
> Large single room (Ford)
> Four rooms (002)
> The Google satellite image showed that the Ford's cabin was a big single room stacked with no walls between the reactor and the turbine. The engine has no bulkhead in the middle.
> It also showed that 003 has only the intermediate bulkhead, and no bulkheads between the reactor and the turbine.
> 
> (lower)
> 
> Red rectangle: heap
> Blue rectangle: turbine
> Green rectangle: generator
> Black circle: boiler
> At first, they said the layout of the type, referring to the position of the heap and the engine, which could be seen by a person with a clear eye after carefully distinguishing the bulkheads: 002 has four rooms, Ford and 003 have large single room, the difference is obvious.



red rectangle = reactor

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## LKJ86

Via @铁幕君SSS from Weibo

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## kungfugymnast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The stern section of the Type 003, and it does look exactly like this mockup.
> 
> 
> View attachment 663425
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 663427



This Type 003 nuclear powered carrier will be completed next year or 2 years? Wonder if J-35 project will start soon for this new carrier?


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## kungfugymnast

Austin Powers said:


> 003 is likely conventionally powered considering China needs 10 carriers by 2025 including LHD.



PLAN needed carriers with powered launch system so it probably won't be conventional if they wanted EMALS. 2 conventional carriers is enough for providing air cover over Spratlys. Without catapult or EMALS, fighters operating from type 001 & 002 only limited to air to air payload on more fuel or anti-ship missiles with less fuel. 

The rest required nuclear powered for complete air to air, anti-ship, air to ground roles offensive/defensive sorties.


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## Figaro

kungfugymnast said:


> This Type 003 nuclear powered carrier will be completed next year or 2 years? Wonder if J-35 project will start soon for this new carrier?


Time to launch should be around a year to a year and half given the current state of progress and JNCX's faster timetable than that of Dalian.


samsara said:


> In English (roughly, feel free to fix if any mistake):
> 
> (upper)
> 
> Cabin wall drawing without equipment:
> 
> A wall in the middle of a large single room (003)
> Large single room (Ford)
> Four rooms (002)
> The Google satellite image showed that the Ford's cabin was a big single room stacked with no walls between the reactor and the turbine. The engine has no bulkhead in the middle.
> It also showed that 003 has only the intermediate bulkhead, and no bulkheads between the reactor and the turbine.
> 
> (lower)
> 
> Red rectangle: heap (nuclear reactor)
> Blue rectangle: turbine
> Green rectangle: generator
> Black circle: boiler
> At first, they said the layout of the type, referring to the position of the heap and the engine, which could be seen by a person with a clear eye after carefully distinguishing the bulkheads: 002 has four rooms, Ford and 003 have large single room, the difference is obvious.
> 
> // Thanks @wulff for the correction


So is the 003 indeed going to be nuclear powered? That would be the PLAN killing two birds with one stone.


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## ChineseTiger1986

This pic shows that the modules are starting to connect with each other.

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## ChineseTiger1986

kungfugymnast said:


> This Type 003 nuclear powered carrier will be completed next year or 2 years? Wonder if J-35 project will start soon for this new carrier?



It could be launched by the end of 2020 or early 2021 with the current pace of construction.

The true successor of the J-15 could have its maiden flighty by next year.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> Time to launch should be around a year to a year and half given the current state of progress and JNCX's faster timetable than that of Dalian.
> 
> So is the 003 indeed going to be nuclear powered? That would be the PLAN killing two birds with one stone.



There is no appropriate propulsion for the Type 003 except the nuclear one.

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## siegecrossbow

kungfugymnast said:


> This Type 003 nuclear powered carrier will be completed next year or 2 years? Wonder if J-35 project will start soon for this new carrier?



Expect J-35 news before the end of 2020.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This pic shows that the modules are starting to connect with each other.
> 
> 
> View attachment 665325




Pardon, but where do you see them connected?





ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It could be launched by the end of 2020 or early 2021 with the current pace of construction.





Even if I agree with you that they seem to be faster than Dalian, there is no way they can launch the 003 within 4 months! The vessel itself is not yet connected, it is only up to the waterline-level, it is larger than 002 and most likely more complex. So how could they manage to finish such a monster ship within a fraction of time for what Dalian needed about 18 months from a comparable state of construction for the 002?

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It could be launched by the end of 2020 or early 2021 with the current pace of construction.
> 
> The true successor of the J-15 could have its maiden flighty by next year.


A launch by the end of 2020 or even early 2021 is extremely unlikely IMHO, even if the pace of construction is faster than what we've expected.


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## Akasa

siegecrossbow said:


> Expect J-35 news before the end of 2020.



Why?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> A launch by the end of 2020 or even early 2021 is extremely unlikely IMHO, even if the pace of construction is faster than what we've expected.



Well, by comparing with the chronological progression of the CVN-78.

You can see it only took 40 days for the Type 003 to become from keel to 24 months.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Pardon, but where do you see them connected?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even if I agree with you that they seem to be faster than Dalian, there is no way they can launch the 003 within 4 months! The vessel itself is not yet connected, it is only up to the waterline-level, it is larger than 002 and most likely more complex. So how could they manage to finish such a monster ship within a fraction of time for what Dalian needed about 18 months from a comparable state of construction for the 002?



You can see more modules have been added to the waist.

Some modules are starting to become connected to each other.

And this pic was likely being taken from few days ago.

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## LKJ86

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Well, by comparing with the chronological progression of the CVN-78.


The building of Type 003 is significantly different from Type 002 and CVN-78.

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## ChineseTiger1986

LKJ86 said:


> The building of Type 003 is significantly different from Type 002 and CVN-78.



Indeed, that's why it will spend much less time in the dry dock.


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## samsara

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Indeed, that's why it will spend much less time in the dry dock.


And I even imagine it will be amazing if it's possible that the module parts for the subsequent carrier in JNCX have been in production in some location, thus as soon as the 003 is launched into the water, the next one can start all over again in that dry dock. In this case one shipyard can accelerate its carrier production, one after another steadily. If it is the case, within just four years, how many large carriers can JNCX produce single-handedly? 

Have any idea when Dalian will start its own portion of the new, large carrier?


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## LKJ86

samsara said:


> Have any idea when Dalian will start its own portion of the new, large carrier?


The only advantage of Dalian shipyard is to near Bohai Sea, by comparing with Jiangnan-Changxing shipyard.


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## kungfugymnast

Figaro said:


> Time to launch should be around a year to a year and half given the current state of progress and JNCX's faster timetable than that of Dalian.
> 
> So is the 003 indeed going to be nuclear powered? That would be the PLAN killing two birds with one stone.



Good, China sure needs a nuclear powered carrier with EMALS in order to defend its shore and support its operation in South China Sea and also future offensive operations in entrance of Pacific Ocean.


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## siegecrossbow

Akasa said:


> Why?



That’s just a rumor floating around on Chinese forums. SAC wants to present four aircraft types as a present for the 100th years for the foundation of CCP next year.

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## kungfugymnast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It could be launched by the end of 2020 or early 2021 with the current pace of construction.
> 
> The true successor of the J-15 could have its maiden flighty by next year.



If the new nuclear powered carrier can be ready that soon, PLAN will surely conduct lots of fighters on various heavy payload launch with the J-15 before the new J-35 would go naval test. 

@siegecrossbow
Hope there's news on new navalized J-35 soon. Still waiting for news on FC-31 whether it will be navalized or just limited to air force. FC-31 wings are designed for carrier take off by the way reducing its top speed.


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## siegecrossbow

kungfugymnast said:


> If the new nuclear powered carrier can be ready that soon, PLAN will surely conduct lots of fighters on various heavy payload launch with the J-15 before the new J-35 would go naval test.
> 
> @siegecrossbow
> Hope there's news on new navalized J-35 soon. Still waiting for news on FC-31 whether it will be navalized or just limited to air force. FC-31 wings are designed for carrier take off by the way reducing its top speed.



It’ll be a waste if they only use the navalized version.


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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Indeed, that's why it will spend much less time in the dry dock.



But there is a gap between a reasonable "faster than" and and IMO "unrealistic in 4 months for what Dalian needed 18"!


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## PeacefulWar

siegecrossbow said:


> That’s just a rumor floating around on Chinese forums. SAC wants to present four aircraft types as a present for the 100th years for the foundation of CCP next year.


Oh boy.
That's why they are behind CAC.
All their leaders care is political show and leader's please


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## Akasa

siegecrossbow said:


> That’s just a rumor floating around on Chinese forums. SAC wants to present four aircraft types as a present for the 100th years for the foundation of CCP next year.



So we can possibly expect four different types to be unveiled by next year, and the J-35 this year?


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## Deino

Akasa said:


> So we can possibly expect four different types to be unveiled by next year, and the J-35 this year?




Four types?? ... what could these be? the J-35, a new Flanker variant (J-15B ?), J-16D operational ones and a UCAV?


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## samsara

*From 逆襲 @horobeyo on 2020.08.31:*

对比8月15日照片可以看出较窄的舰尾起第二段分段的左侧已经焊上了

Comparing with the photos on August 15, it can be seen that the left side of the narrower aft section from the second section has been welded.












__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1300131298858553344

*On measurements:*

图1自微博捣蛋就对，图2参考了图3我自己的测量结果，以8月15日卫星图的舰首33.9米分段的长度为基准，测得全长为306.4米。仅供参考。

Figure 1 has been correct since the Weibo made mistake. The figure 2 refers to my own measurement results of the figure 3. Based on the section length of 33.9 meters at the bow of the satellite image on August 15, the measured length is 306.4 meters. For reference only.















__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1300362487808667650

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## aziqbal

hold on is the carrier water line section complete ? 

I mean the one which says 306.4m? its now all one complete section ?


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## Figaro

samsara said:


> *From 逆襲 @horobeyo on 2020.08.31:*
> 
> 对比8月15日照片可以看出较窄的舰尾起第二段分段的左侧已经焊上了
> 
> Comparing with the photos on August 15, it can be seen that the left side of the narrower aft section from the second section has been welded.
> 
> View attachment 665479
> 
> View attachment 665478
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1300131298858553344
> 
> *On measurements:*
> 
> 图1自微博捣蛋就对，图2参考了图3我自己的测量结果，以8月15日卫星图的舰首33.9米分段的长度为基准，测得全长为306.4米。仅供参考。
> 
> Figure 1 has been correct since the Weibo made mistake. The figure 2 refers to my own measurement results of the figure 3. Based on the section length of 33.9 meters at the bow of the satellite image on August 15, the measured length is 306.4 meters. For reference only.
> 
> View attachment 665482
> 
> View attachment 665481
> 
> View attachment 665480
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1300362487808667650


So what is the final waterline length? I'd say 306 meters is somewhat lesser than we expected.


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## Deino

aziqbal said:


> hold on is the carrier water line section complete ?
> 
> I mean the one which says 306.4m? its now all one complete section ?




No, it is a composed ps-job done based on modules known so far and mated via ps.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Here is a rough comparison between the Type 003 and the CVN-79.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> No, it is a composed ps-job done based on modules known so far and mated via ps.



The waterline of the Nimitz class, Reagan subclass, and Ford class are petty much same.

Except since the CVN-76, the US supercarriers got a modernized bulbous bow, and the waterline + the bulbous bow is pretty much the length of the flight deck.








The Ford class without that module with attached bulbous bow was 293 meters, so that module could be close to 40 meters.

Whereas the Type 003 has a different construction method and different portion of modules, so the particular module that attached to the bulbous bow would be less than 30 meters, and it would make the Type 003 peer to the Ford class.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> So what is the final waterline length? I'd say 306 meters is somewhat lesser than we expected.



This should be the full waterline of the Type 003, anywhere between 315 to 320 meters.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The Type 003 from few days ago.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 003 from few days ago.
> 
> 
> View attachment 665658




Here larger...

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## Grandy

*China's first carrier-based, fixed-wing early warning aircraft makes maiden flight: reports *

By Liu Xuanzun Source: Global Times. Published: 2020/9/1 21:16:34





Aircrafts are visible on the deck of the aircraft carrier Liaoning of the PLA Navy. File photo: 81.cn

China's first aircraft carrier-based, fixed-wing early warning aircraft, reportedly called the KJ-600, successfully made its maiden flight in late August, foreign and Chinese media reported. This type of plane will become far-reaching eyes and significantly boost the comprehensive combat capability of Chinese aircraft carriers, which currently only have helicopters for early warning purposes, Chinese experts said on Tuesday.

An aircraft identified as the KJ-600 was recently spotted in Xi'an, capital of Northwest China's Shaanxi Province, in a commercial satellite image, Ordnance Industry Science Technology, a Xi'an-based magazine on the national defense industry, reported on Monday, citing a report on Forbes on Saturday.

Unverified photos posted on social media show it recently made its first test flight, the Chinese magazine said.

The Chinese military or the aircraft's manufacturer has not announced the maiden flight of the aircraft as of press time.

Wang Ya'nan, chief editor of Beijing-based Aerospace Knowledge magazine, told the Global Times on Tuesday that after China built an aircraft carrier, it was expected to develop an aircraft carrier-based early warning system as a priority project.

When China's aircraft carriers sail far away from inland to an extent that land-based early warning aircraft cannot provide early warning support, the carriers would lose their full combat potential without a carrier-based fixed-wing early warning aircraft, Wang said. He added that this kind of aircraft can quickly create an early warning and control system to allow an aircraft carrier combat group to independently carry out missions.

China's aircraft carriers currently rely on early warning helicopters to do the job, but they can only carry smaller radars, have limited speed, and only cover a radius of about 200 kilometers, while a fixed-wing early warning aircraft can cover about 400 to 500 kilometers, Wang said.

Judging from the images, Ordnance Industry Science Technology said that the KJ-600 has a very tight fuselage design, making it almost as long as the J-15 aircraft carrier-based fighter jet, and the Z-18 early warning helicopter.

The aircraft carries a radar on the top of its middle fuselage, similar to China's previous early warning aircraft KJ-2000 and KJ-500.

It likely uses two WJ-6C turboprop engines, but could switch to the newer WJ-10s in the future, the report said.

The Forbes report claimed that the KJ-600 looks like the US Navy's E-2C Hawkeye.

Wang said it is natural that similar technological requirements and approaches, including on the design of a carrier-operable aircraft platform and the development of small but capable radar, have led to this.

There is no evidence yet if the KJ-600 can operate on China's current two aircraft carriers, the _Liaoning_ and the _Shandong_, which use ski-jump flight decks without catapults. China's third aircraft carrier is expected to use a flat flight deck with electromagnetic catapults, which will be compatible with the KJ-600, analysts said.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302520238089465857

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302520238089465857


I wish that picture was so much clearer

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## Figaro

Via Temstar on SDF 
Here's someone's analysis of 003's size against USS Gerald R. Ford. 003 sections are of course joined together via photoshop. The 003 is on the left and Ford on the right.

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## Deino

Figaro said:


> Via Temstar on SDF
> Here's someone's analysis of 003's size against USS Gerald R. Ford. 003 sections are of course joined together via photoshop. The 003 is on the left and Ford on the right.
> View attachment 667105




What surprises me is the overall different shape of the hull.

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## sheik

Figaro said:


> Via Temstar on SDF
> Here's someone's analysis of 003's size against USS Gerald R. Ford. 003 sections are of course joined together via photoshop. The 003 is on the left and Ford on the right.
> View attachment 667105



The width at the bow increases rapidly with the level/floor going up. Ford in the picture seemed to be two floors higher than 003, at some sections. See the suddenly increased shadow width right after the tip at the bow. Anyway, as Deino pointed out, the hull shape of the two ships are still quite different.

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## sheik

Deino said:


> What surprises me is the overall different shape of the hull.



Not really a surprise compared to Type 002/Shandong.

Dec. 2015:





May 2016:





I believe the designers at the 701st institute must have evaluated the water resistance of different hull shapes by experiments and computer simulations. I think the choice was a compromise of speed and stability at required capacity and given engine power, just like any other ships.

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## ChineseTiger1986

sheik said:


> The width at the bow increases rapidly with the level/floor. Ford in the picture seemed to be one or two floors higher than 003, at some sections. See the shape continuity broken right after the tip. Anyway, just as Deino pointed out, the hull shape of the two ships are quite different.



The CVN-79 from 2018 had more upper floors being added to its waterline section, so it is not a fair comparison.

Should use the GE image of 2016 instead.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> What surprises me is the overall different shape of the hull.



Except the Type 003 got a more robust stern section, the rests are pretty much similar.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> Via Temstar on SDF
> Here's someone's analysis of 003's size against USS Gerald R. Ford. 003 sections are of course joined together via photoshop. The 003 is on the left and Ford on the right.
> View attachment 667105



The CVN-79 in that image had many floors being added above its waterline section.

If it is on the same level as the current Type 003, it would look just as slim.

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## sheik

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The CVN-79 in that image had many floors being added above its waterline section.
> 
> If it is on the same level as the current Type 003, it would look just as slim.



Exactly, but the width at the stern of Ford was apparently smaller than 003.

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## sheik

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Except the Type 003 got a more robust stern section, the rests are pretty much similar.



Probably Ford aimed for less water resistance and Type 003 wants more capacity.
At least it tells us Type 003 will have enough engine power.

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## ChineseTiger1986

sheik said:


> Exactly, but the width at the stern of Ford was apparently smaller than 003.



The Type 003 got a unique V-shape stern.












In comparison, the Ford class got a narrow flat stern, and only the extended deck from both side makes it looks wide.

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## ChineseTiger1986

sheik said:


> Probably Ford aimed for less water resistance and Type 003 wants more capacity.
> At least it tells us Type 003 will have enough engine power.



The J-15 and China's next gen carrier-based aircraft are both larger than the F-18 and F-35, but the Type 003 will carry the same amount of larger aircraft as the Ford class.

Therefore, it needs more space for bigger hangar.

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## ChineseTiger1986

September 7

The barrier has been removed between the Type 003 and Type 052D.

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## lcloo

I don't think the water barrier has been removed. Looks more like they have filled up the part of the dry dock where the destroyer is located. The water level rose up to near top of the barrier and covered much from it from top view. Moreover the photo is very blurred.

They are most likely flooded the dry dock to remove the destroyer.

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## ChineseTiger1986

More intuitive view about how the waterline structure looks like within the entire hull structure.

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## Deino

Oh well ... my very special friend once again of fear-mongering course! 







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296644079522967552

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> Oh well ... my very special friend once again of fear-mongering course!
> 
> View attachment 668243
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296644079522967552


He used to be more rational back in the day ... I guess the border issue has really gotten him riled up.

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## samsara

Deino said:


> Oh well ... my very special friend once again of fear-mongering course!
> 
> View attachment 668243
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296644079522967552


HOW CAN this ex-colonel (or captain of _intelligence_ !?) becomes a sort of the best street unintelligence fan-boy to propagate the China's military muscles more than the Five-Eyes mainstream & think tank media??? OMG

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## Figaro

Via Li on SDF ... one of the best views we've gotten of the 003 so far

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## Deino

Via @铁幕君SSS from Weibo

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## lcloo

This shows the modules thus far sighted is only about half of the total. Up to about the hangar floor height of the ship.

Ignore the wording 002, this is an old artist illustration.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1303671900103680005

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Oh well ... my very special friend once again of fear-mongering course!
> 
> View attachment 668243
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296644079522967552



350 meters for the waterline is impossible, even impossible for the flight deck.

The Ford class under the same condition, with all the current modules being connected, was around 293 meters.

And the remaining waterline was attached to the same last module that contained the bulbous bow.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> 350 meters for the waterline is impossible, even impossible for the flight deck.
> 
> The Ford class under the same condition, with all the current modules being connected, was around 293 meters.
> 
> And the remaining waterline was attached to the same last module that contained the bulbous bow.
> 
> View attachment 668473


Forget this Raj guy ... he was an Indian Army colonel or something and does Chinese fear-mongering for a living. With that being said, he is actually one of the much more rational Indian analysts on the Chinese military, which is really saying something. He understands the enormous military superiority China holds over India and even exaggerates that so he can gain popularity.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> Forget this Raj guy ... he was an Indian Army colonel or something and does Chinese fear-mongering for a living. With that being said, he is actually one of the much more rational Indian analysts on the Chinese military, which is really saying something. He understands the enormous military superiority China holds over India and even exaggerates that so he can gain popularity.



Many Chinese military enthusiasts bet that the Type 003 will be 100% commissioned earlier than India's first domestic carrier.

Hopefully that Mr. Raj will view this as some positive light, not some baseless fear-mongering exaggeration.

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## jaybird

Figaro said:


> Forget this Raj guy ... he was an Indian Army colonel or something and does Chinese fear-mongering for a living. With that being said, he is actually one of the much more rational Indian analysts on the Chinese military, which is really saying something. He understands the enormous military superiority China holds over India and even exaggerates that so he can gain popularity.



And of course a big negative character trait we find out about him of not keeping his word. He basically scammed a book from Deino.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Many Chinese military enthusiasts bet that the Type 003 will be 100% commissioned earlier than India's first domestic carrier.
> 
> Hopefully that Mr. Raj will view this as some positive light, not some baseless fear-mongering exaggeration.


Actually he will just use this super fast Chinese shipbuilding to further fan the flames of fear


jaybird said:


> And of course a big negative character trait we find out about him of not keeping his word. He basically scammed a book from Deino.


I think he still lurks around on CDF ... I go around there to check it here and there and he is still pretty active. Maybe he is also on SDF.

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## jaybird

Figaro said:


> Actually he will just use this super fast Chinese shipbuilding to further fan the flames of fear
> 
> I think he still lurks around on CDF ... I go around there to check it here and there and he is still pretty active. Maybe he is also on SDF.



I haven't log in SDF for few years now. But I still read some of the posts there once a while if something big develop or happen because I love some of the guys there and highly respect their opinions.

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## wulff

jaybird said:


> I haven't log in SDF for few years now. But I still read some of the posts there once a while if something big develop or happen because I love some of the guys there and highly respect their opinions.



Not that many people active there these days. SDF is now a sad image of its old self, most of the old timers are gone. Still, there are a few really great posters on SDF who i wish posted here as well. A few that i can name:

- Tam
- Hendrik
- Vincent
- vesicles
- Tirdent
- plawolf
- A Man
- skywatcher
- engineer
- latenlazy

deino, siegecrossbow, blitzo are already here. And there are many others i skipped.

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## Figaro

wulff said:


> Not that many people active there these days. SDF is now a sad image of its old self, most of the old timers are gone. Still, there are a few really great posters on SDF who i wish posted here as well. A few that i can name:
> 
> - Tam
> - Hendrik
> - Vincent
> - vesicles
> - Tirdent
> - plawolf
> - A Man
> - skywatcher
> - engineer
> - latenlazy
> 
> deino, siegecrossbow, blitzo are already here. And there are many others i skipped.


SDF actually has much more activity than before ... there are a lot more daily users and content posted everyday. Yes many of the old timers (and the best posters) are gone but they have been replaced by new posters.

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## letsrock

jaybird said:


> I haven't log in SDF for few years now. But I still read some of the posts there once a while if something big develop or happen because I love some of the guys there and highly respect their opinions.



what forums are SDF and CDF


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## Figaro

letsrock said:


> what forums are SDF and CDF


SinoDefenceForum 
ChinaDefenseForum

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## LKJ86

Via @捣蛋就对 from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 669429
> View attachment 669430
> View attachment 669431
> 
> Via @捣蛋就对 from Weibo




Must be a bit older since the Type 052DL is still in


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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Must be a bit older since the Type 052DL is still in


It is Type 055.

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> It is Type 055.




Oh well ... I'm getting old, You are correct ... so it is a new one. But a few days ago it was a 052DL.


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## JSCh

*China's 3rd aircraft carrier 'progressing smoothly'*
By Liu Xuanzun Source: Global Times Published: 2020/9/13 20:38:40

*Warship to be launched in late 2020 or early 2021: reports, experts say*



A future aircraft carrier function demonstration model is on display at the newly renovated and expanded Military Museum of the Chinese People's Revolution in Beijing in June, 2019. Photo: Liu Xuanzun/GT

It has been nearly two years since the Xinhua News Agency revealed that China's third aircraft carrier was under construction, and recent media reports suggest that work is progressing smoothly and the launch of the warship is near.

A weekend report by a Chinese defense industry magazine predicted that the carrier could be launched as soon as the end of 2020, although experts said on Sunday that the launch could also take place in early 2021.

Citing photos taken by local residents and commercial satellite images widely circulated on social media, Ordnance Industry Science Technology, a Xi'an-based defense magazine, reported on Friday that a dock at Shanghai-based Jiangnan Shipyard was cleared in June, after which the hull sections of what are believed to be the country's third aircraft carrier were brought in for final assembly.

According to photos taken in early September, the general shape of the warship has taken form, with only the bulbous bow missing, the report said.

If everything goes well, the third aircraft carrier should be completed in November or December, be launched by the end of the year and then be fitted out, the report predicted.

Beijing-based naval expert Li Jie told the Global Times on Sunday that the launch date would need to be decided based on the actual progress of construction. While that could happen by the end of the year as the report said, it could also take place in early 2021, which is more likely, if construction goes according to plan.

Chinese military experts predicted in November 2018, when the existence of China's third aircraft carrier was revealed to the general public for the first time by Xinhua, that the warship was expected to be launched in two and a half years.

Xinhua reported at that time that the carrier was being built on a berth.

Unlike the Shandong, China's second aircraft carrier, the third one used a more advanced construction method, in which large hull sections were built in different places and sent to the final assembly site for assembly, Ordnance Industry Science Technology reported, noting that this method can shorten the construction time.

This method is widely used across the world, Li said, noting that after the hull sections are separately built, some outfitting work will be conducted in advance before the final assembly, which will also shorten the total outfitting time.

Citing approximate measurements by military enthusiasts based on these photos, Ordnance Industry Science Technology predicted the size of the third carrier. It said that the warship will be about 320 meters long, surpassing the Shandong's 305 meters.

Although these measurements are only approximate, the report said that this means the third aircraft carrier will surely have a full displacement of more than 80,000 tons, making it a heavy aircraft carrier. By comparison, China's first two carriers, the Liaoning and the Shandong, have about 60,000-ton full displacements, and are considered medium-sized aircraft carriers, observers said.

Another Chinese military expert, who asked not to be identified, told the Global Times on Sunday that since the new carrier is larger than previous carriers and will likely feature many new technologies including the electromagnetic catapult technology, the ship's construction, outfitting and sea trials could take longer compared with the Shandong.

Judging from the photos, the progress of construction seems to be smooth, the expert noted.

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## Figaro

JSCh said:


> *Warship to be launched in late 2020 or early 2021: reports, experts say*


This would be shocking if true ... I was thinking earliest after the middle of next year.


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## ChineseTiger1986

This guy Li Jie always claimed everything in opposite.

Back in 2017, he asserted that the Type 003 will use the steam catapult.





__





中国002型航母将配置4部蒸汽弹射器？军事专家解析-新华网


中国002型航母将配置4部蒸汽弹射器？军事专家解析---美国军事专家指出，002型航母预计将使用4部蒸汽弹射器，这是其落后的关键性因素。因为相比电磁弹射器，蒸汽弹射器的劣势相当明显。



www.xinhuanet.com






Now he claims the Type 003 will not be nuclear powered.





__





页面没有找到






mil.news.sina.com.cn






Now it is quite safe to say that Type 003 will be nuclear powered along with the EMALS.

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## siegecrossbow

wulff said:


> Not that many people active there these days. SDF is now a sad image of its old self, most of the old timers are gone. Still, there are a few really great posters on SDF who i wish posted here as well. A few that i can name:
> 
> - Tam
> - Hendrik
> - Vincent
> - vesicles
> - Tirdent
> - plawolf
> - A Man
> - skywatcher
> - engineer
> - latenlazy
> 
> deino, siegecrossbow, blitzo are already here. And there are many others i skipped.



Don't worry. When H-20 comes out we'll get 2000 registrations a day!

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## ZeEa5KPul

siegecrossbow said:


> Don't worry. When H-20 comes out we'll get 2000 registrations a day!


Oh, God!


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## Brainsucker

siegecrossbow said:


> Don't worry. When H-20 comes out we'll get 2000 registrations a day!



Blitzo is here?


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## Figaro

Brainsucker said:


> Blitzo is here?


He has an account on PDF but rarely uses it. @Blitzo

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## Deino

Interesting read 









Tracking China's Third Aircraft Carrier | ChinaPower Project


The construction of a third aircraft carrier – the Type 002 – appears to be underway at China’s Jiangnan Shipyard. Learn more.




chinapower.csis.org

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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306231365168443393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306172552230907904

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## sheik

Now Type 003 is more and more likely to be nuclear powered. 














2.4. 交货期：合同签订后12个月之内完成系统验收,满足第一阶段使用条件；预计合同签订后约38个月进行最终负载(实船)验收。合同签订后2周内提供设备对土建的建设要求。
2.5. 交货地点：江南造船(集团)有限责任公司 上海市长兴岛长兴江南大道988号
也就是2020年7月的标书，签订合同后38个月实船最终负荷验收！

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## Figaro

sheik said:


> Now Type 003 is more and more likely to be nuclear powered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.4. 交货期：合同签订后12个月之内完成系统验收,满足第一阶段使用条件；预计合同签订后约38个月进行最终负载(实船)验收。合同签订后2周内提供设备对土建的建设要求。
> 2.5. 交货地点：江南造船(集团)有限责任公司 上海市长兴岛长兴江南大道988号
> 也就是2020年7月的标书，签订合同后38个月实船最终负荷验收！


Could you provide a translation in English as well?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> Could you provide a translation in English as well?



The post #4124 of this thread has already interpreted it.






CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread


100K tons for CV? By comparison, USN first CVN, Enterprise was 90K+. Nimitz class (and probably Ford class as well) are slightly above 100K+ 100K tons is overkill but maybe just like how the 055 had to be enlarged to accommodate all PLAN requirements, maybe same is true here. Expectations...



www.sinodefenceforum.com

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## Daniel808

Figaro said:


> Could you provide a translation in English as well?



*Suggested evidence of 003 being nuclear.*
_*
Jiangnan Shipyard is looking for someone to build a boiler room on land for testing purposes. Including facilities to take the steam via pipe onto ships. There's no direct evidence that this is intended for 003, however:

if the boiler is intended eventually to go onto a ship, why build it on land first and pipe the steam onto a ship? Why not install it directly onto the ship in one go?
001 and 002 were all tested directly, generating steam from onboard boiler to test their turbines rather than doing such a round about manner
if this test boiler is for 003 than by the same token, 003 cannot be gas turbine. And in any case 003 is almost certainly going for EMLAS and so does not have a requirement for lots of steam to test catapults
the requirement ask for two steam lines, this suggest two sources of steam for 003, or in other words two reactors driving four turbines. If it's instead conventional power we would expect something like 8 boilers and 4 turbines, so we would expect in that case there should instead be 4 or 8 steam test pipes
there's a similar request for another such facility at Huludao, home of the nuclear sub fleet. Surely Huludao isn't building submarines with conventional steam boilers
Thus this suggests this test boiler facility is indeed intended to test a nuclear powered ship's turbine system while the reactor remain offline to check for things like leak and to purge oxygen, before reactors are warmed up for the first time. You do not want to fire up the reactor before you first test the rest of the power system.

So why the requirement for the Huludao facility now, given they've been building nuclear subs for ages?

Huludao's ship building capacity are being expanded right now, so new facility at this time makes sense
previously there's never been a situation where more than 2 nuclear subs where in trial at the same time, the new expanded Huludao might have as many as six subs that need trial at the same time, plus the two from the original facility
*_

*[*]new generation of nuclear sub might be employing much more powerful reactors that before, thus previous testing facility might no longer sufficient*

Credit to @Temstar

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## ChineseTiger1986

For testing the performance of the steam turbines, the Type 001 & 002 can directly use their onboard boilers to activate it.

Whereas the Type 003 won't have any onboard boilers, therefore it needs the assistance from the testing facility on the land to activate its steam turbine system before it can safely activate its nuclear reactors.

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## obj 705A

Deino said:


> Interesting read
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tracking China's Third Aircraft Carrier | ChinaPower Project
> 
> 
> The construction of a third aircraft carrier – the Type 002 – appears to be underway at China’s Jiangnan Shipyard. Learn more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chinapower.csis.org





JSCh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306231365168443393
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306172552230907904



so this satalite image of the drydock is like.. totally new right? and by saying "new" I don't mean the date it was taken in but I mean we have never seen this particular image before now right?


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## lcloo

2020 July is the submission date for tender document of the new boiler test facility on Zongming island Tender result will be known ?? months later. Contract to be signed thereafter, this will be around end of 2020. Contract duration stipulated is 38 months, so the project will be handed over to JNCX shipyard at end of 2023 or early 2024.

After hand-over, there will be pilot test runs of equipment intended for familiarization by the engineers and technicians from JNCX shipyard. By the time the facility is ready to go for real thing, it is already middle of 2024.

So this facility seem more likely is built for aircraft carrier 004 instead of 003. 003 is expected to be launched middle of next year (2021), complete its outfitting in 2022, and sea trial by 2023 and enter PLAN service at end 2023 or early 2024.

So the timeline does not match.

If 004 commence steel cutting this year, in 2 years time it will be in dry dock for assembly of hull modules ( year 2023/2024), it will get its boiler tests completed in time for installation, before 004's hull housing power plant is sealed and join with other hull modules. Thus more likely this facility is for CV004.

Whether 003 is or is not nuclear powered is another matter. 003 is expecting to have its power plant hull module seal and join with other hull modules before end of this year.

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## samsara

WHY don't we make a fun poll whether the 003 is CVN / CV, poll closed after some time before thing becomes too obvious and remove all the guessing funs.

*The 003: Nuke Or Conventional ???*


I hv been wondering why Dalian has not yet engaged in any new carrier building after Shandong? 

Any idea?

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> WHY don't we make a fun poll whether the 003 is CVN / CV, poll closed after some time before thing becomes too obvious and remove all the guessing funs.
> 
> *The 003: Nuke Or Conventional ???*
> 
> 
> I hv been wondering why Dalian has not yet engaged in any new carrier building after Shandong?
> 
> Any idea?


Hopefully it will be nuclear powered ... having made the leap to EM catapults, why not just take it one step further and also make it nuclear powered? There are no real technical or resource limitations stopping its way.

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## PeacefulWar

samsara said:


> WHY don't we make a fun poll whether the 003 is CVN / CV, poll closed after some time before thing becomes too obvious and remove all the guessing funs.
> 
> *The 003: Nuke Or Conventional ???*


Good idea!
Why don't you start a poll thread? Let's have some fun!

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## sheik

lcloo said:


> 2020 July is the submission date for tender document of the new boiler test facility on Zongming island Tender result will be known ?? months later. Contract to be signed thereafter, this will be around end of 2020. Contract duration stipulated is 38 months, so the project will be handed over to JNCX shipyard at end of 2023 or early 2024.
> 
> After hand-over, there will be pilot test runs of equipment intended for familiarization by the engineers and technicians from JNCX shipyard. By the time the facility is ready to go for real thing, it is already middle of 2024.
> 
> So this facility seem more likely is built for aircraft carrier 004 instead of 003. 003 is expected to be launched middle of next year (2021), complete its outfitting in 2022, and sea trial by 2023 and enter PLAN service at end 2023 or early 2024.
> 
> So the timeline does not match.
> 
> If 004 commence steel cutting this year, in 2 years time it will be in dry dock for assembly of hull modules ( year 2023/2024), it will get its boiler tests completed in time for installation, before 004's hull housing power plant is sealed and join with other hull modules. Thus more likely this facility is for CV004.
> 
> Whether 003 is or is not nuclear powered is another matter. 003 is expecting to have its power plant hull module seal and join with other hull modules before end of this year.



It may be for 004, but the bidding procedure could be just for something already in processing or even finished. That's not rare for many government purchases in China. Anyway, if 003 is not nuke powered, 004 must be!

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## ChineseTiger1986

obj 705A said:


> so this satalite image of the drydock is like.. totally new right? and by saying "new" I don't mean the date it was taken in but I mean we have never seen this particular image before now right?



His numbers aren't exactly accurate, since the CV-17 is not 315 meters long, but 305 meters, same as the CV-16.


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## ChineseTiger1986

lcloo said:


> 2020 July is the submission date for tender document of the new boiler test facility on Zongming island Tender result will be known ?? months later. Contract to be signed thereafter, this will be around end of 2020. Contract duration stipulated is 38 months, so the project will be handed over to JNCX shipyard at end of 2023 or early 2024.
> 
> After hand-over, there will be pilot test runs of equipment intended for familiarization by the engineers and technicians from JNCX shipyard. By the time the facility is ready to go for real thing, it is already middle of 2024.
> 
> So this facility seem more likely is built for aircraft carrier 004 instead of 003. 003 is expected to be launched middle of next year (2021), complete its outfitting in 2022, and sea trial by 2023 and enter PLAN service at end 2023 or early 2024.
> 
> So the timeline does not match.
> 
> If 004 commence steel cutting this year, in 2 years time it will be in dry dock for assembly of hull modules ( year 2023/2024), it will get its boiler tests completed in time for installation, before 004's hull housing power plant is sealed and join with other hull modules. Thus more likely this facility is for CV004.
> 
> Whether 003 is or is not nuclear powered is another matter. 003 is expecting to have its power plant hull module seal and join with other hull modules before end of this year.



38 months after means May 2023, as they started the purchase of equipment since March 2020.

But the sea trial of May 2023 is also too early for the Type 004, and let's assume the Type 003 will be launched in the summer 2021, maybe it will take another 1.5-2 years for fitting out.

It took 13 months for the CV-17, but the amount of work for the CVN-18 will be completely in another league. Therefore it will take much longer.

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## ChineseTiger1986

lcloo said:


> 2020 July is the submission date for tender document of the new boiler test facility on Zongming island Tender result will be known ?? months later. Contract to be signed thereafter, this will be around end of 2020. Contract duration stipulated is 38 months, so the project will be handed over to JNCX shipyard at end of 2023 or early 2024.
> 
> After hand-over, there will be pilot test runs of equipment intended for familiarization by the engineers and technicians from JNCX shipyard. By the time the facility is ready to go for real thing, it is already middle of 2024.
> 
> So this facility seem more likely is built for aircraft carrier 004 instead of 003. 003 is expected to be launched middle of next year (2021), complete its outfitting in 2022, and sea trial by 2023 and enter PLAN service at end 2023 or early 2024.
> 
> So the timeline does not match.
> 
> If 004 commence steel cutting this year, in 2 years time it will be in dry dock for assembly of hull modules ( year 2023/2024), it will get its boiler tests completed in time for installation, before 004's hull housing power plant is sealed and join with other hull modules. Thus more likely this facility is for CV004.
> 
> Whether 003 is or is not nuclear powered is another matter. 003 is expecting to have its power plant hull module seal and join with other hull modules before end of this year.



The Type 003 is most likely a supercarrier that weighs over 90,000 tonnes.

What type of super powerful boilers are you going to use for this monster?

If it weighs 70,000 tonnes, then it is going to be conventional for sure.

But right now even the most conservative guy in the CD forum cannot deny that this ship is significantly larger than the Kitty Hawk class.

And the Kitty Hawk class already used some much more powerful boilers than both Type 001 & 002.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 003 is most likely a supercarrier that weighs over 90,000 tonnes.
> 
> What type of super powerful boilers are you going to use for this monster?
> 
> If it weighs 70,000 tonnes, then it is going to be conventional for sure.
> 
> But right now even the most conservative guy in the CD forum cannot deny that this ship is significantly larger than the Kitty Hawk class.
> 
> And the Kitty Hawk class already used some much more powerful boilers than both Type 001 & 002.


You would be surprised how many people still think this carrier will only be the size of that of the Kitty Hawk

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> You would be surprised how many people still think this carrier will only be the size of that of the Kitty Hawk



Because most people don't want to learn more about this ship, and their mind has already been preoccupied by the early online rumors.

I said it depends the block coefficient of the ship.

If it is a relatively slim ship with low Cb, it is going to weigh over 90,000 tonnes like the Nimitz class.

If it is a relatively fat ship with high Cb, it is going to weigh over 100,000 tonnes like the Ford class.

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## samsara

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Because most people don't want to learn more about this ship, and their mind has already been preoccupied by the early online rumors.
> 
> I said it depends the block coefficient of the ship.
> 
> If it is a relatively slim ship with low Cb, it is going to weigh over 90,000 tonnes like the Nimitz class.
> 
> If it is a relatively fat ship with high Cb, it is going to weigh over 100,000 tonnes like the Ford class.



Here's a clear and simple explanation of what's the Cb.

*Block Coefficient (Cb)*

The *block coefficient* of a ship at any particular draft is the ratio of the volume of displacement at that draft to the volume of a rectangular block having the same overall length, breadth, and depth.

In the figure below, the shaded portion represents the volume of the ship’s displacement at the draft concerned, enclosed in a rectangular block having the same overall length, breadth, and depth.

*Block Coefficient (Cb) = Volume of displacement ÷ Volume of the block

Block Coefficient (Cb) = Volume of displacement ÷ ( L x B x draft)*

∴ _Volume of displacement = L x B x draft x Cb_
_∴ = therefore_







Example

Question: A ship 64 meters long, 10 meters maximum beam, has a light draft of 1.5 meters and a load draft of 4 meters. The block coefficient of fineness is 0.600 at the light draft and 0.750 at the load draft. Find the deadweight.

Answer:

*Light displacement = L x B x draft x Cb*
*= 64 x 10 x 1.5 x 0.600
= 576 cubic meters

Load displacement = L x B x draft x Cb
= 64 x 10 x 4 x 0.750*
*= 1920 cubic meters*

* * *

*What is draft?*

The *draft (AmE) or draught (BrE)* of a ship's hull is the vertical distance between the waterline and the bottom of the hull (keel), with the thickness of the hull included; in the case of not being included the draft outline would be obtained. Draft determines the minimum depth of water a ship or boat can safely navigate.

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## Stealth



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## ChineseTiger1986

samsara said:


> Here's a clear and simple explanation of what's the Cb.
> 
> *Block Coefficient (Cb)*
> 
> The *block coefficient* of a ship at any particular draft is the ratio of the volume of displacement at that draft to the volume of a rectangular block having the same overall length, breadth, and depth.
> 
> In the figure below, the shaded portion represents the volume of the ship’s displacement at the draft concerned, enclosed in a rectangular block having the same overall length, breadth, and depth.
> 
> *Block Coefficient (Cb) = Volume of displacement ÷ Volume of the block
> 
> Block Coefficient (Cb) = Volume of displacement ÷ ( L x B x draft)*
> 
> ∴ _Volume of displacement = L x B x draft x Cb_
> _∴ = therefore_
> 
> View attachment 670982
> 
> 
> Example
> 
> Question: A ship 64 meters long, 10 meters maximum beam, has a light draft of 1.5 meters and a load draft of 4 meters. The block coefficient of fineness is 0.600 at the light draft and 0.750 at the load draft. Find the deadweight.
> 
> Answer:
> 
> *Light displacement = L x B x draft x Cb*
> *= 64 x 10 x 1.5 x 0.600
> = 576 cubic meters
> 
> Load displacement = L x B x draft x Cb
> = 64 x 10 x 4 x 0.750*
> *= 1920 cubic meters*
> 
> * * *
> 
> *What is draft?*
> 
> The *draft (AmE) or draught (BrE)* of a ship's hull is the vertical distance between the waterline and the bottom of the hull (keel), with the thickness of the hull included; in the case of not being included the draft outline would be obtained. Draft determines the minimum depth of water a ship or boat can safely navigate.



The Cb of the aircraft carrier is usually around 0.6 at full load.

CVN-68: 88000 / 317 / 40.8 / 12 = 0.567

CVN-78: 101600 / 317 / 40.8 / 12.5 = 0.628

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## LKJ86

Via 舰船知识

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## Figaro

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 672466
> 
> Via 舰船知识


An excellent CG


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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> An excellent CG



They will never leak the true superstructure of the Type 003.

This is the superstructure of the original Type 002.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They will never leak the true superstructure of the Type 003.
> 
> This is the superstructure of the original Type 002.


If it is indeed nuclear power, the superstructure size and appearance will look heavily different to that of the 002. If it is still conventionally powered, then most likely we are going to get a downsized 002 superstructure (i.e. reduced by 25%).

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> If it is indeed nuclear power, the superstructure size and appearance will look heavily different to that of the 002. If it is still conventionally powered, then most likely we are going to get a downsized 002 superstructure (i.e. reduced by 25%).



The problem is that those military magazines do not seem to be so reliable.

Those editors usually follow too much playbook from the CD forum, and still believe that China needs the nuclear ice-breaker first.

Also previously none of them supported the EMALS.

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## Figaro

A rather grainy flyover update

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## LKJ86

Via @卫星图像发烧员 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @奇圆JeffHoly from Weibo

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## obj 705A

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 677428
> View attachment 677429
> 
> Via @卫星图像发烧员 from Weibo


Finally a new picture, feels like it's been ages since the last time we got a good update on the ship.

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## ChineseTiger1986

obj 705A said:


> Finally a new picture, feels like it's been ages since the last time we got a good update on the ship.



The most recent update was in fact the one from October 2nd.

But the pic was more blurred, and you can briefly see that only one gap left as compared the three gaps from September 28th.

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## samsara

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The most recent update was in fact the one from October 2nd.
> 
> But the pic was more blurred, and you can briefly see that only one gap left as compared the three gaps from September 28th.
> 
> 
> View attachment 677654


Hahahaha... I opt to be patient awaiting the water becomes clear and the ship form becomes obvious  in the meantime I'll just look out elsewhere and trying to forget that it exists... good that there are folks like you who keep on feeding / interpreting / deciphering // here even the small increment of changes...  i mean it... in a positive sense.

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## ChineseTiger1986

October 9th, 2020

There are still two major gaps, and we exclude it, the length of the current ship would be around 310 meters.

The tip of the bow is around 5-6 meters wide, so the waterline is not over yet, and it is conceivable to be around 320 meters.

In addition with the bulbous bow, it gonna reach 330 meters.

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## ChineseTiger1986

October 17th, 2020

There is one final gap.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> October 17th, 2020
> 
> There is one final gap.
> 
> 
> View attachment 680418




The question - and as such most important to determine its final waterline length - is, were the front modules only moved further back and joined or was an additional module inserted? As such, will the bow module now simply mated or is still a module missing?


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## Deino

PS:


Even more as explained by him, " there's still another narrower gap to the aft of the propulsion section adjacent to the stern (blurry line in the 10/17 pic, obstructed in the 10/9 pic), and it does seem more prominent from another perspective."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317874203182485505

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> The question - and as such most important to determine its final waterline length - is, were the front modules only moved further back and joined or was an additional module inserted? As such, will the bow module now simply mated or is still a module missing?



The bow section will move further back, then add the bulbous bow section in the front like this one.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This should be the full waterline of the Type 003, anywhere between 315 to 320 meters.
> 
> 
> View attachment 665626




Hmm ... given the latest images I come to a slightly smaller estimation!?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Hmm ... given the latest images I come to a slightly smaller estimation!?
> 
> View attachment 681034



The current length is about 300 meters if join all the modules together.

You have overestimated the length of the large gap.

Also, the 'small gap' doesn't exist, it is simply the stern section being higher than the forward section, not a gap.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The red arrow is in fact a bridge that allows the workers to pass between the modules, so the real gap is not that large.








Also the 'small gap' is in fact an indentation of the module, not really a gap.








And the only missing module is the one that contains the bulbous bow.

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## LKJ86

Via: https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7047764782

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## samsara

I am awaiting for the one whole, completely joined carrier, basically one complete picture of the exterior view, think it may possibly still take several more months before such scenes will happen. In the meantime Just keep patient, and look at the other side momentarily...

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## LKJ86

October 30, 2020




Via @军戈飞扬 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7056984301

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## ChineseTiger1986

November 15

One final big gap remains.

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## ChineseTiger1986

How it is going to look like before being launched.

Never mind about the superstructure and the number of catapults.

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## LKJ86

October 14, 2020







Via Google Earth and @核动力航母时代 from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> October 14, 2020
> View attachment 689682
> View attachment 689683
> 
> Via Google Earth and @核动力航母时代 from Weibo




Wow ... and here's my latest attempt - and as always please correct me if I'm wrong - would be 296 m long and 40.4 m width. 






@ChineseTiger1986

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Wow ... and here's my latest attempt - and as always please correct me if I'm wrong - would be 296 m long and 40.4 m width.
> 
> View attachment 689712
> 
> 
> @ChineseTiger1986



The 'smallest gap' in that picture was not really a gap, but a joint that hadn't finished being welded seamlessly.

I still hold my initial prediction of 315-320 meters waterline, and 41 meters in width.

The current state in November is over 300 meters long without the bulbous bow module.

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## LKJ86

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The 'smallest gap' in that picture was not really a gap, but a joint that hadn't finished being welded seamlessly.

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## ChineseTiger1986

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 689744



On the other side you can see the steel beam being connected as the joint.

BTW, this pic is too old from October 14, and we need more recent pic to make further conclusions.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Possibly the bulbous bow and a pair of radiation shielding boxes.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The wave piercing bow has not been included yet, so the GE image has some severe distortion.

Even if the current module is around 296 meters, the final waterline length including the wave piercing bow should be 315 - 320 meters.

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## ChineseTiger1986

November 28, 2020

They are ready to weld everything into one piece, and expect the bulbous bow module to join it by early 2021.

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## ChineseTiger1986

November 29, 2020

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## ChineseTiger1986

Another pic with slightly better resolution.

And hopefully there will be a clearer pic from the aerial view by December.

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## Tipu7

What's the expected timeline of 003? Launch, trials and commissioning? 🤔


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## ChineseTiger1986

Tipu7 said:


> What's the expected timeline of 003? Launch, trials and commissioning? 🤔



Launch: June 2021
Sea Trial: August-September 2022
Commissioning: December 2023
Combat Ready: Early 2025

Of course, these are just my own speculation.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Launch: June 2021
> Sea Trial: August-September 2022
> Commissioning: December 2023
> Combat Ready: Early 2025
> 
> Of course, these are just my own speculation.




Sorry for again having a different opinion, but this was my reply to one who thought it might be already handed over in to the PLAN in QI/2021

"... .. if you look at the current status it is about a roughly comparable state of completion to the Type 002 'Shandong' in November 2015 (right) or 1 1/2 years away from launch. And both vessels are vastly different in size, complexity and the way they are built. "


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332963904817946624


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Sorry for again having a different opinion, but this was my reply to one who thought it might be already handed over in to the PLAN in QI/2021
> 
> "... .. if you look at the current status it is about a roughly comparable state of completion to the Type 002 'Shandong' in November 2015 (right) or 1 1/2 years away from launch. And both vessels are vastly different in size, complexity and the way they are built. "
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332963904817946624



As I said before, let's see how fast they can pull this thing out.

The aerial pic in next month should confirm whether the ship's main hull has been welded together into one piece.

After that, the propulsion compartment should be soon sealed with more modules being added above the waterline section.

By the end of Q1 2021, the wave piercing bulbous bow module should be joined with the main hull. By then, expect the total length of the ship to reach about 330 meters.

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## retaxis

shouldn't we be building drone carriers as well? Would be useful to have drone carriers in Africa helping friendly african countries defeat their separatism and terrorism by bombing the terrorists.

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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> As I said before, let's see how fast they can pull this thing out.
> 
> The aerial pic in next month should confirm whether the ship's main hull has been welded together into one piece.
> 
> After that, the propulsion compartment should be soon sealed with more modules being added above the waterline section.
> 
> By the end of Q1 2021, the wave piercing bulbous bow module should be joined with the main hull. By then, expect the total length of the ship to reach about 330 meters.



What do you think will be the tonnage of the Type 003?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> What do you think will be the tonnage of the Type 003?



About 108,000 metric tons full load with the current size estimation and block coefficient.

The Ford class is around 102,000 metric tons full load.

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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> About 108,000 metric tons full load with the current size estimation and block coefficient.
> 
> The Ford class is around 102,000 metric tons full load.



WOW. Amazing. So the 85,000 tons prediction was bogus?

I’m happy with anything above 100,000 tons.

Do you think it will have EM catapults and nuclear powered?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beidou2020 said:


> WOW. Amazing. So the 85,000 tons prediction was bogus?
> 
> I’m happy with anything above 100,000 tons.
> 
> Do you think it will have EM catapults and nuclear powered?



Even it is 85,000 tons, it will also be nuclear, because China doesn't have any suitable conventional propulsion for a carrier that weighs over 80,000 tons.

The Type 003 got a more robust waterline than the Ford class, so even both carrier got the same dimension, then the Type 003 would still have several thousands tons of leverage.

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## Figaro

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Even it is 85,000 tons, it will also be nuclear, because China doesn't have any suitable conventional propulsion for a carrier that weighs over 80,000 tons.
> 
> The Type 003 got a more robust waterline than the Ford class, so even both carrier got the same dimension, then the Type 003 would still have several thousands tons of leverage.


It makes no sense for the 003 not to be nuclear at this point ... that is, I would be extremely surprised if it wasn't at this stage.

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## Daniel808

retaxis said:


> shouldn't we be building drone carriers as well? Would be useful to have drone carriers in Africa helping friendly african countries defeat their separatism and terrorism by bombing the terrorists.



They already have that plan.
At this moment, they Develop Type 076 LHA-UCAV Carrier

















ChineseTiger1986 said:


> About 108,000 metric tons full load with the current size estimation and block coefficient.
> 
> The Ford class is around 102,000 metric tons full load.



In the next few months, we will know the tonnage of this ship. Hopefully, your prediction is right



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Even it is 85,000 tons, it will also be nuclear, because China doesn't have any suitable conventional propulsion for a carrier that weighs over 80,000 tons.
> 
> The Type 003 got a more robust waterline than the Ford class, so even both carrier got the same dimension, then the Type 003 would still have several thousands tons of leverage.



What if they add more QC-280 for this Type 003 AC?

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## Beidou2020

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Even it is 85,000 tons, it will also be nuclear, because China doesn't have any suitable conventional propulsion for a carrier that weighs over 80,000 tons.
> 
> The Type 003 got a more robust waterline than the Ford class, so even both carrier got the same dimension, then the Type 003 would still have several thousands tons of leverage.



Anything under 100,000 tons and non-nuclear would be a huge disappointment.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> It makes no sense for the 003 not to be nuclear at this point ... that is, I would be extremely surprised if it wasn't at this stage.



Some people have already spotted the radiation shielding boxes in the shipyard.

So it is quite self-explanatory.


Daniel808 said:


> In the next few months, we will know the tonnage of this ship. Hopefully, your prediction is right
> 
> 
> 
> What if they add more QC-280 for this Type 003 AC?



China doesn't have the suitable boilers to power the Type 003, then the gas turbines wouldn't be better choice either.

It looks like the gas turbines would be ideal propulsion for the Type 076.

The Type 003 will definitely use the military version of the ACP100 reactor.


Beidou2020 said:


> Anything under 100,000 tons and non-nuclear would be a huge disappointment.



Don't worry, the boilers of the Kitty Hawk class is theoretically maximum for a conventional powered carrier.

If we use these boilers to power the Type 003, then it can only barely propel the ship at 30 knots, but everything else like the radars and catapults would suffer a power failure.

Unless the PLAN is mentally retarded, then there is no point to make the Type 003 conventional powered.

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## samsara

@ChineseTiger1986
Look at how your most seemingly affirmative or even bold statements on the 003 has been causing some fascinating dynamic controversy even at the adjacent, prof. forum  well, we all gonna see which part matches what you said, hopefully by some time in this December. Ha ha ha you indeed take some "risk" to say out aloud some notions in advance  Most folks will be more cautious and opt to play safe, stick to the mainstream notion, or simply wait n see and avoid engaging in such "risk" putting his credibility on the table... 

Let's keep a note for future ref upon these matters as time goes by,,,, hopefully by coming Dec things are cleared out.

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> @ChineseTiger1986
> Look at how your most seemingly affirmative or even bold statements on the 003 has been causing some fascinating dynamic controversy even at the adjacent, prof. forum  well, we all gonna see which part matches what you said, hopefully by some time in this December. Ha ha ha you indeed take some "risk" to say out aloud some notions in advance. Most folks will be more cautious and opt to stick to the mainstream notion and avoid such "risk" putting his credibility on the table...
> 
> Let's keep a note for future ref upon these matters as time goes by,,,, hopefully by coming Dec things are cleared out.
> View attachment 691976


People are getting triggered on SDF as usual ... why are some people so sensitive and think everything coming out of PDF is inaccurate?

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## Beidou2020

Figaro said:


> People are getting triggered on SDF as usual ... why are some people so sensitive and think everything coming out of PDF is inaccurate?



White man’s insecurity.

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## ChineseTiger1986

samsara said:


> @ChineseTiger1986
> Look at how your most seemingly affirmative or even bold statements on the 003 has been causing some fascinating dynamic controversy even at the adjacent, prof. forum  well, we all gonna see which part matches what you said, hopefully by some time in this December. Ha ha ha you indeed take some "risk" to say out aloud some notions in advance  Most folks will be more cautious and opt to play safe, stick to the mainstream notion, or simply wait n see and avoid engaging in such "risk" putting his credibility on the table...
> 
> Let's keep a note for future ref upon these matters as time goes by,,,, hopefully by coming Dec things are cleared out.
> View attachment 691976



Right now, the mainstream notion about the Type 003 cannot hold ground against reality.

The coming December aerial pic will probably nail everything once and for all.


Figaro said:


> People are getting triggered on SDF as usual ... why are some people so sensitive and think everything coming out of PDF is inaccurate?



Most people still don't have a clue about the layout of an aircraft carrier.

Right now, the Type 003 is sitting there around 295 meters without the wave piercing bow and the bulbous bow.

The final module to conclude its total length is going to be the bulbous bow module, which contains both wave piercing bow and bulbous bow.








Beidou2020 said:


> White man’s insecurity.



If the Type 003 can hold up its size against the Ford class, then it is definitely going to outweigh it by a couple of thousands tonnes.

The Ford class got its waterline being shrunk significantly in its stern section which will cause it to lose several thousands tonnes of displacement against the Type 003.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> As I said before, let's see how fast they can pull this thing out.
> The aerial pic in next month should confirm whether the ship's main hull has been welded together into one piece.
> After that, the propulsion compartment should be soon sealed with more modules being added above the waterline section.
> 
> By the end of Q1 2021, the wave piercing bulbous bow module should be joined with the main hull. By then, expect the total length of the ship to reach about 330 meters.



Agreed and as usual I appreciate any discussion with even if in the end I often enough come to other conclusions. So like this one ...




ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Some people have already spotted the radiation shielding boxes in the shipyard.
> So it is quite self-explanatory.
> ....



Indeed, if these are "radiation shielding boxes in the shipyard", then it is indeed "quite self-explanatory". However I'm still not sure and prefer to wait for my final conclusion.
.



samsara said:


> @ChineseTiger1986
> Look at how your most seemingly affirmative or even bold statements on the 003 has been causing some fascinating dynamic controversy even at the adjacent, prof. forum  well, we all gonna see which part matches what you said, hopefully by some time in this December. Ha ha ha you indeed take some "risk" to say out aloud some notions in advance  Most folks will be more cautious and opt to play safe, stick to the mainstream notion, or simply wait n see and avoid engaging in such "risk" putting his credibility on the table...
> 
> Let's keep a note for future ref upon these matters as time goes by,,,, hopefully by coming Dec things are cleared out.




That's indeed an interesting issue, but one I beg to understand and not to overrate.

I think both forums have their very individual strengths and weaknesses, both have established thru the years of development very different standards and a very different mix of members. I must admit I love both and I won't miss any of them even if I'm surely one of the members here, who often enough annoys members here with that "nasty" SDF-habit of asking for a proof!

@ChineseTiger1986 is indeed a prime example for this: IMO he is at the PDF one of the most valuable members and I like discussing with him very much, even if most often I cannot agree with him. This carrier question on CV or CVN is one and the other the topics I don't agree and even more that all J-20s are shall be using WS-15 engines since 2011.
But anyway, he argues, he helps to understand the other way of thinking, presents constantly valuable sources I won't find without his guidance and most of all he initiates a constant process of thinking, reconsidering of my own opinion. So the most important thing for me is not to have the same opinion in the end, but the process is it. 

On the other side I see at the PDF - partially in the PAF and nearly completely in the Turkish section - too many with a too much overrated nationalistic chest-bumping attitude. Statements like "you are not allowed to post here since you are not a Pakistani/Turkish member", open insults only since an opinion - often enough explained with several reasons - is simply refuted without even any argument and the IMO difficult to understand habit of simply believing what certain members say regardless contradicting evidence is a problem to my scientific approach. My old friend MK with his applause to a fan boy that the JF-17 Block 3 will have an Italian engine and use AMRAAM is the prime example of this stupid arrogance, which is something, barely or simply not acceptable at the SDF.

Sorry for the long post, but maybe it helps a bit to understand the differences.

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## samsara

Deino said:


> Agreed and as usual I appreciate any discussion with even if in the end I often enough come to other conclusions. So like this one ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, if these are "radiation shielding boxes in the shipyard", then it is indeed "quite self-explanatory". However I'm still not sure and prefer to wait for my final conclusion.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's indeed an interesting issue, but one I beg to understand and not to overrate.
> 
> I think both forums have their very individual strengths and weaknesses, both have established thru the years of development very different standards and a very different mix of members. I must admit I love both and I won't miss any of them even if I'm surely one of the members here, who often enough annoys members here with that "nasty" SDF-habit of asking for a proof!
> 
> @ChineseTiger1986 is indeed a prime example for this: IMO he is at the PDF one of the most valuable members and I like discussing with him very much, even if most often I cannot agree with him. This carrier question on CV or CVN is one and the other the topics I don't agree and even more that all J-20s are shall be using WS-15 engines since 2011.
> But anyway, he argues, he helps to understand the other way of thinking, presents constantly valuable sources I won't find without his guidance and most of all he initiates a constant process of thinking, reconsidering of my own opinion. So the most important thing for me is not to have the same opinion in the end, but the process is it.
> 
> On the other side I see at the PDF - partially in the PAF and nearly completely in the Turkish section - too many with a too much overrated nationalistic chest-bumping attitude. Statements like "you are not allowed to post here since you are not a Pakistani/Turkish member", open insults only since an opinion - often enough explained with several reasons - is simply refuted without even any argument and the IMO difficult to understand habit of simply believing what certain members say regardless contradicting evidence is a problem to my scientific approach. My old friend MK with his applause to a fan boy that the JF-17 Block 3 will have an Italian engine and use AMRAAM is the prime example of this stupid arrogance, which is something, barely or simply not acceptable at the SDF.
> 
> Sorry for the long post, but maybe it helps a bit to understand the differences.


Deino, if there is one thing that I dislike much is the arrogant talking point... commenting from the high ground.

One may not agree with others, or not agree in most issues, or every issue, that is fine, just part of the life... the rather disturbing part is just those conceited tones.

It's better to say that "I don't agree with XYZ idea of ABC because of this PQR reason or these PQR, LMN reasons and so forth..." the ways of reasoning...

Well, that's just the general atmosphere, the culture being nurtured in such environment.


As about @ChineseTiger1986 , I admire his coolness, his patience in explaining, just like yours... something that I don't have... like you have your area of expertise, he has his own well-informed state as well... and both earn respects for that traits... and well, some times we all may have to agree to disagree, that's just normal things. No big deal.

And I do mean it when I say about his boldness in presenting those ideas, for a long time and active member like him, most folks may opt to avoid that path and instead take safer ways...  Cheers 🍻🍻 Pilsner... I had some in München 3 years ago

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> @ChineseTiger1986 is indeed a prime example for this: IMO he is at the PDF one of the most valuable members and I like discussing with him very much, even if most often I cannot agree with him. This carrier question on CV or CVN is one and the other the topics I don't agree and even more that all J-20s are shall be using WS-15 engines since 2011.
> But anyway, he argues, he helps to understand the other way of thinking, presents constantly valuable sources I won't find without his guidance and most of all he initiates a constant process of thinking, reconsidering of my own opinion. So the most important thing for me is not to have the same opinion in the end, but the process is it.
> 
> On the other side I see at the PDF - partially in the PAF and nearly completely in the Turkish section - too many with a too much overrated nationalistic chest-bumping attitude. Statements like "you are not allowed to post here since you are not a Pakistani/Turkish member", open insults only since an opinion - often enough explained with several reasons - is simply refuted without even any argument and the IMO difficult to understand habit of simply believing what certain members say regardless contradicting evidence is a problem to my scientific approach. My old friend MK with his applause to a fan boy that the JF-17 Block 3 will have an Italian engine and use AMRAAM is the prime example of this stupid arrogance, which is something, barely or simply not acceptable at the SDF.
> 
> Sorry for the long post, but maybe it helps a bit to understand the differences.



Well, the engines of the J-20 are pretty much declassified by the PLA itself.

The non-Chinese online communities often took those notions from the CD forum as the official one.

However, I can tell you that the CD forum right now is a lost cause in the eyes of the beholders.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Well, the engines of the J-20 are pretty much declassified by the PLA itself.
> 
> The non-Chinese online communities often took those notions from the CD forum as the official one.
> 
> However, I can tell you that the CD forum right now is a lost cause in the eyes of the beholders.




Even if we are off-topic again (sorry since I'm guilty for that!) the PLA declassified IMO nothing. And concerning CD, may I ask what you mean with CD forum? I have the feeling that we both speak of different CD-forums (http://www.china-defense.com/smf/index.php#1)?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Even if we are off-topic again (sorry since I'm guilty for that!) the PLA declassified IMO nothing. And concerning CD, may I ask what you mean with CD forum? I have the feeling that we both speak of different CD-forums (http://www.china-defense.com/smf/index.php#1)?



Yes, they did, those aforementioned senior PLA members represent them.

BTW, back to the topic. I pretty much got the impression that the final dimension of the Type 003 is going to be toe on toe with the Ford class, but it is going to outweigh the latter by a couple of thousands tonnes because of the waterline leverage.

So far, I am pretty confident with the available proofs, and the incoming evidence will likely further consolidate it.

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## jaybird

Deino said:


> Even if we are off-topic again (sorry since I'm guilty for that!) the PLA declassified IMO nothing. And concerning CD, may I ask what you mean with CD forum? I have the feeling that we both speak of different CD-forums (http://www.china-defense.com/smf/index.php#1)?



I think ChineseTiger1986 meant cjdby.net the Chinese military forum when he say CD forum.

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## hirobo2

Type 003 has to outweigh the Ford class. It's psychological warfare. To win without firing a single bullet (meaning psych your enemy) is the best course of action. No point in making anything with less displacement.

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## ChineseTiger1986

jaybird said:


> I think ChineseTiger1986 meant cjdby.net the Chinese military forum when he say CD forum.



The mods of the CD forum went full retard by not allowing to post any satellite image. If you don't abide, then it would result an immediate ban.

That's why most people don't take them seriously anymore.


hirobo2 said:


> Type 003 has to outweigh the Ford class. It's psychological warfare. To win without firing a single bullet (meaning psych your enemy) is the best course of action. No point in making anything with less displacement.



If the Type 003 can be confirmed with the draft height of 12.5 meters, and maintain its waterline to be no less than 315 meters, then it is going to outweigh the Ford class for sure.

The incoming aerial pic of December will be crucial to fulfill that definition.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> ....
> The incoming aerial pic of December will be crucial to fulfill that definition.




Any idea why they come in such irregular intervals?


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## Figaro

Deino said:


> Any idea why they come in such irregular intervals?


Censorship?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Any idea why they come in such irregular intervals?



Because the shipyard is located in a island which is in the midst of the mouth of the Yangtze River.

It is 5 km away from Shanghai, so it is very hard for the military enthusiasts to take a photo.

The aerial view from an airliner is the only viable way for them to take a good shot.

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## samsara

_This site somehow posted a fairly enough accurate, informative and readable article on the Chinese aircraft carrier program... by the GlobalSecurity.org, and as usual no clear date of article is stated, seemingly an ongoing update modelling the wiki style, but less politics, more to whatever factual information it can garner -- a mere online publication with vague ownership, don't know which entity owns this online media -- its About Us tells nothing: _





About GlobalSecurity.org - Reliable News and Security Information







www.globalsecurity.org




_I stumbled across this page when looking for the relevant CGI pics of 003, lazy to dig manually in the piling of forums_  

---------------------------

*CVAN 003 aircraft carrier*

By GlobalSecurity.org | Page last modified: 25-12-2019 18:42:54 ZULU

The People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy will operate at least five aircraft carriers in the near future, including the country's first two nuclear-powered ones that would likely be launched around 2025, Chinese military experts predicted on 05 December *2018*. The remarks came after online discussions on how many aircraft carriers China needs, which were sparked by a WeChat article from the Xinhua News Agency on November 25, which announced the construction of the nation's third aircraft carrier.

The PLA Navy will shift its focus from "offshore waters defense" to "offshore waters defense" with "open seas protection," and will enhance its capabilities for strategic deterrence and counterattacks, maritime maneuvers, joint operations at sea, comprehensive defense and support, according to China's Military Strategy released by the State Council's Information Office *in 2015*.

Song Zhongping, a military expert and TV commentator, said that China needs at least five aircraft carriers to fulfill the strategic shifts. Wang Yunfei, a naval expert and retired PLA Navy officer, told the Global Times on 05 December 2018 that China needed six aircraft carriers to ensure enough carriers are on active duty while the others are undergoing maintenance. Meanwhile, China's Ministry of National Defense has not yet revealed a plan for future carriers. Ministry spokesperson Ren Guoqiang said at a press conference in November that the development of China's aircraft carriers will be based on the country's overall plan.

Minnie Chan writing for the South China Morning Post [SCMP] on 27 November 2019 reported "... plans for a fifth have been put on hold for now, according to military insiders. They said that technical challenges and high costs had put the brakes on the programme... one of the key obstacles is in the development of a new generation of carrier-based fighter jets. “China doesn’t possess the nuclear technology required, although it has developed many nuclear-powered submarines,” said the source, who added that developing a reactor for use on a large warship is more challenging than making one for a submarine.... tests of the electromagnetic catapults used to launch the J-15, China’s only carrier-based fighter, had yet to meet the required standard."

_This story came amidst reports that the third carrier, namely the first locally designed big-deck carrier, was under construction and would be delivered within a few years. Without respect to the reporter, the clear intent of the reporter's sources was *"don't worry, be happy" seeking to allay anxiety provoked by the rapid buildup of Chinese seapower*. In the long sweep of a complex multi-year project such as an aircraft carrier, to say that plans "have been put on hold for now" is nearly meaningless. The "technical challenges" of the notional CV-003 would not seem to represent too much of a leap beyond the CV-002, which was a great leap over the CV-001 medium carrier. China's naval buildup does not otherwise seem constrained by "high costs"._

The "development of a new generation of carrier-based fighter jets" was cited as "one of the key obstacles". For some years now, China has been flying both the J-20 [first flight in 2011] and the J-31 [first flight in 2012]. As of 2019, neither had been observed in association with land based carrier activities, though the J-31 [still a work in progress] was frequently featured in aircraft carrier artwork. A schedule mismatch of a few years between an aircraft carrier and its primary combat aircraft would not be out of the ordinary. In the Royal Navy, the new aircraft carrier Queen Elizabeth was commissioned on 07 December 2017. On 30 June 2016 the first of Britain's new F-35B Lightning II supersonic 'stealth' strike fighters touched down in the UK for the first time. By the end of 2019, the second carrier, Prince of Wales, had be commissioned, but F-35B operations were not anticipated until 2021 at the earliest.

Turkey began the construction of a new multipurpose amphibious assault ship called the TGC Anatolia in January 2016. Turkey's procurement of the Russian S-400 missile defense systems prompted the U.S. administration to suspend Ankara's participation in the F-35 joint program in July 2019. This leaves Turkey without a clear path towards providing a fixed-wing combat capability for this ship. Turkey will thus be alone in having a large amphibious assault ship with no fixed wing aircraft.

_The source maintained that *"China doesn’t possess the nuclear technology required.... developing a reactor for use on a large warship is more challenging than making one for a submarine."* A Chinese nuclear powered aircraft carrier would probably require a new power reactor, but Chinese industry is surely adequate to the task at hand. Such a reactor would probably need to be several times more powerful than existing submarine reactors, *but contrary to* the SCMP source's claim, reactors for surface vessels present less of a challenge than submarine, reactors, since the surface vessel *does not confront the space limitations* inherent in a submarine design._

*US media reported that China has developed the 003 nuclear powered aircraft carrier. *China's new aircraft carrier hinted at the future of the country's navy, according to a report published on the website of the Popular Science magazine published in the United States on 12 January 2017. China will develop fourth aircraft carriers, that is, the type of nuclear powered aircraft carrier, by the year of 2030. *The 003 aircraft carrier displacement would be about 100 thousand tons*, with a fleet of 70 to 100 helicopters and fixed wing aircraft. It would have a number of aircraft elevators and a large ship island.

*With a nuclear reactor, the 003 aircraft carrier can reach speeds of more than 30 knots.* Taking into account China's interest in unmanned vehicles, 003 aircraft carriers may be equipped with unmanned aerial vehicles, used to carry out surveillance and reconnaissance missions. The 003 aircraft carrier fleet will be equipped for anti submarine warfare and search and rescue helicopter.

The ship will use the US nuclear-powered aircraft carrier as the standard, installing nuclear power and electric propulsion system, equipped with electromagnetic catapult and the fourth generation of advanced aircraft. *The overall combat effectiveness would reach the world's most advanced level. In January 25, 2017, broadcast on CCTV CCTV10 channel "2016 annual science and Technology Festival" program, the naval power engineering expert Ma Weiming*, said the latest research progress we are most concerned about the situation of the electromagnetic launch technology, said the electromagnetic launch technology, will replace the traditional chemical technology in ten years. The exciting news that is being developed in the design of 003 aircraft carrier type electromagnetic launch is a foregone conclusion.

The aircraft carrier battle group escort ships may include 055 destroyers and a future Chinese frigate. The improved type 055 destroyer will have an integrated electric propulsion system to enhance the ability of the ship to generate power for sensors and directed energy weapons. In addition to carrying helicopters, the ship may also be equipped with more than 100 long-range air defense and ground attack missiles. Considering the Chinese of unmanned vehicles in the Navy, these ships may carry unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) and unmanned underwater vehicles (UUV) and unmanned surface vehicle (USV), to deal with mine. As for underwater escort, escort submarines may be type 095 attack submarines. Compared with the current Chinese attack vessels, the submarine stealth performance is better and more sophisticated equipment.

*From type 001 to type 003, China would have 4 aircraft carriers in 2025. In 2025, it is estimated that China's fourth aircraft carrier type 003 will be launched into service. By then, China will have at least 4 aircraft carriers.*

China planned to have by 2049 - the Centenary of the founding of the PRC - completed construction of 10 aircraft carriers.

(some CGIs at the site)

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## Globenim

> Minnie Chan writing for the South China Morning Post


Eh no thanks


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## Deino

samsara said:


> ...
> *From type 001 to type 003, China would have 4 aircraft carriers in 2025. In 2025, it is estimated that China's fourth aircraft carrier type 003 will be launched into service. By then, China will have at least 4 aircraft carriers.*
> ...




Ähhhm ... From Type 001 to Type 003 I count only 001, 002 & 003 to three?! So how do they come to 4?

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## vi-va

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> About 108,000 metric tons full load with the current size estimation and block coefficient.
> 
> The Ford class is around 102,000 metric tons full load.


If that's confirmed in next 2 years, I need a whole box of beer.


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Even it is 85,000 tons, it will also be nuclear, because China doesn't have any suitable conventional propulsion for a carrier that weighs over 80,000 tons.
> 
> The Type 003 got a more robust waterline than the Ford class, so even both carrier got the same dimension, then the Type 003 would still have several thousands tons of leverage.


I think nuclear or not, has nothing to do with tonnage. Conventional propulsion can generate as much power as nuclear, but it will waste a lot of space and tonnage for fuel, as well as venting.


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The mods of the CD forum went full retard by not allowing to post any satellite image. If you don't abide, then it would result an immediate ban.
> 
> That's why most people don't take them seriously anymore.
> 
> 
> If the Type 003 can be confirmed with the draft height of 12.5 meters, and maintain its waterline to be no less than 315 meters, then it is going to outweigh the Ford class for sure.
> 
> The incoming aerial pic of December will be crucial to fulfill that definition.


I was banned from CD many years ago. Never want to register this $hitty forum again.
I hate CD, most mods in CD are just retard, especially in aviation sub forum.

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## samsara

Deino said:


> Ähhhm ... From Type 001 to Type 003 I count only 001, 002 & 003 to three?! So how do they come to 4?


The article _assumed_ that *003* would be *repeated* (once) so the *fourth* carrier would remain be 003.

It's mentioned in the lines you quoted above, it should have set its wording more explicit 

"From type 001 to type 003, China would have 4 aircraft carriers in 2025. In 2025, it is estimated that China's fourth aircraft carrier type 003 will be launched into service. By then, China will have at least 4 aircraft carriers."

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## vi-va

Deino said:


> Even if we are off-topic again (sorry since I'm guilty for that!) the PLA declassified IMO nothing. And concerning CD, may I ask what you mean with CD forum? I have the feeling that we both speak of different CD-forums (http://www.china-defense.com/smf/index.php#1)?





https://lt.cjdby.net/

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## ChineseTiger1986

vi-va said:


> If that's confirmed in next 2 years, I need a whole box of beer.
> 
> I think nuclear or not, has nothing to do with tonnage. Conventional propulsion can generate as much power as nuclear, but it will waste a lot of space and tonnage for fuel, as well as venting.
> 
> I was banned from CD many years ago. Never want to register this $hitty forum again.
> I hate CD, most mods in CD are just retard, especially in aviation sub forum.



A conventional powered carrier over 80,000 tons is surely going to be a gas guzzler, especially China got very few military bases around the world.

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## vi-va

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> A conventional powered carrier over 80,000 tons is surely going to be a gas guzzler, especially China got very few military bases around the world.


gas operational fee will be sky high. boiling water with heavy oil is possible. Just like Liaoning and shandong


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## Figaro

vi-va said:


> gas operational fee will be sky high. boiling water with heavy oil is possible. Just like Liaoning and shandong


Very non efficient compared with a nuclear powered carrier ... IMHO it would not make sense using conventional propulsion for a carrier the size of the 003.

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## ChineseTiger1986

vi-va said:


> gas operational fee will be sky high. boiling water with heavy oil is possible. Just like Liaoning and shandong



The boilers are outdated technology, and it has never propelled any aircraft carrier that displaced over 80,000 tonnes.

And the aircraft carrier with gas turbines has never gone anything beyond 65,000 tonnes.

The most risk averse way is going through nuclear propulsion.

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## vi-va

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The boilers are outdated technology, and it has never propelled any aircraft carrier that displaced over 80,000 tonnes.
> 
> And the aircraft carrier with gas turbines has never gone anything beyond 65,000 tonnes.
> 
> The most risk averse way is going through nuclear propulsion.


China never built any ship power by nuclear larger than 15000 tons. I highly doubt they will do that in such a hurry.
I hope 003 is nuclear powered, and I hope technology is mature, which means there was other big ships powered by nuclear but we just don't know. 
Boilers are not outdated technology, it can power any tonnage you want. Just take more space for fuel and venting.

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## White and Green with M/S

vi-va said:


> Boilers are not outdated technology, it can power any tonnage you want. Just take more space for fuel and venting.


Boilers are have also cons, they give big IR signature and also have Big RCS and slower than gas turbine/Nuclear reactors

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## shanlung

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> A conventional powered carrier over 80,000 tons is surely going to be a gas guzzler, especially China got very few military bases around the world.




Are Chinese carriers required to go all over the world like Murica carriers?

I thought the furthest Chinese carriers need to go to will be to 3rd Island Chain.

Unless they want to go to 4th Island Chain and Frisco Bay to do Chinese FONOP in Frisco Bay itself


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## vi-va

White and Green with M/S said:


> Boilers are have also cons, they give big IR signature and also have Big RCS and slower than gas turbine/Nuclear reactors


gas operation fee is not affordable. Fuel consumption is rocket high. Let's say 50 years of operation, it will cost 2 times of nuclear reactor. China definitely will choose nuclear over gas.

While boiler cost will be something similar to nuclear.

Boiler definitely has cons and pros. China can rent Gwadar of Pakistan to refuel 003, or some other friendly countries. Pakistanis won't worry about nuclear leakage. It's less sensitive as well. While nuclear need very special equipment and infrastructure for maintenance.

Also if China doesn't use carriers as much as US, most of time the fuel consumption is zero. While nuclear reactor cost will be the same no matter you use it or not.

If nuclear reactor is not mature, China will have no choice but boiler. A boiler carrier is 100 times better than no carrier.

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## FairAndUnbiased

vi-va said:


> gas operation fee is not affordable. Fuel consumption is rocket high.



boiler isn't so bad. remember Kitty Hawk was steam boiler, has 20k tons less displacement (80k) than Nimitz (100k), but only carries 10-15 less aircraft. also, boiler can use cheap bunker fuel like tankers and freighters in order to share cost.

much of that extra tonnage is for shielding and containment requirements. boilers don't have the rigorous shielding and containment requirements.

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## vi-va

FairAndUnbiased said:


> boiler isn't so bad. remember Kitty Hawk was steam boiler, has 20k tons less displacement (80k) than Nimitz (100k), but only carries 10-15 less aircraft. also, boiler can use cheap bunker fuel like tankers and freighters in order to share cost.
> 
> much of that extra tonnage is for shielding and containment requirements. boilers don't have the rigorous shielding and containment requirements.


Also if there is any damage during the war, boiler is much easier to fix compare with nuclear.
nuclear reactor is not possible to be fixed at all.

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## ChineseTiger1986

shanlung said:


> Are Chinese carriers required to go all over the world like Murica carriers?
> 
> I thought the furthest Chinese carriers need to go to will be to 3rd Island Chain in a real time warfare.
> 
> Unless they want to go to 4th Island Chain and Frisco Bay to do Chinese FONOP in Frisco Bay itself



China's DF-26/DF-27 can easily destroy the 2nd/3rd Island Chain in a real time warfare.

The revelation of the Type 003 is like a psychological warfare like @hirobo2 said, it is about to demonstrate China's technological superiority over the US.



vi-va said:


> China never built any ship power by nuclear larger than 15000 tons. I highly doubt they will do that in such a hurry.
> I hope 003 is nuclear powered, and I hope technology is mature, which means there was other big ships powered by nuclear but we just don't know.
> Boilers are not outdated technology, it can power any tonnage you want. Just take more space for fuel and venting.



The Type 002 is the latest aircraft carrier with boilers, and I don't think the PLAN is very satisfied with it.

Also, the boilers used by the Type 002 are actually inferior to the ones used by the Kitty Hawk class, and it would have struggled to power a CATOBAR carrier of the same size as the Type 002.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> boiler isn't so bad. remember Kitty Hawk was steam boiler, has 20k tons less displacement (80k) than Nimitz (100k), but only carries 10-15 less aircraft. also, boiler can use cheap bunker fuel like tankers and freighters in order to share cost.
> 
> much of that extra tonnage is for shielding and containment requirements. boilers don't have the rigorous shielding and containment requirements.



The earliest Nimitz class carriers actually weigh about 88k, and only the latest version has approached 100k.

Right now the Type 003 is undoubtedly heavier than the Nimitz class, and I don't know how they can suddenly pull out a super boiler that is more powerful than the one used by the Kitty Hawk class without any single trace of evidence.

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## LKJ86

Via @老王RR涡扇花动机 from Weibo

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 693386
> 
> Via @老王RR涡扇花动机 from Weibo
> 
> 
> View attachment 693388


Would someone do a favor and put a rectangular box around the carrier's boundary to have an unmistaken look...

It happened that our fellow member here @lcloo already did and shared it at SDF.

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## White and Green with M/S

vi-va said:


> gas operation fee is not affordable. Fuel consumption is rocket high. Let's say 50 years of operation, it will cost 2 times of nuclear reactor. China definitely will choose nuclear over gas.
> 
> While boiler cost will be something similar to nuclear.
> 
> Boiler definitely has cons and pros. China can rent Gwadar of Pakistan to refuel 003, or some other friendly countries. Pakistanis won't worry about nuclear leakage. It's less sensitive as well. While nuclear need very special equipment and infrastructure for maintenance.
> 
> Also if China doesn't use carriers as much as US, most of time the fuel consumption is zero. While nuclear reactor cost will be the same no matter you use it or not.
> 
> If nuclear reactor is not mature, China will have no choice but boiler. A boiler carrier is 100 times better than no carrier.


Its Power to weight ratio is worst among all and tell me than why all navies of the world are not using boilers in their Aircraft carriers its outdated technology and its has more cons than pros and also takes lots of space


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## Deino

samsara said:


> Would someone do a favor and put a rectangular box around the carrier's boundary to have an unmistaken look...
> 
> It happened that our fellow member here @lcloo already did and shared it at SDF.
> 
> View attachment 693414




Impressive. By the way, any info on up to which deck it is already constructed and how many more deck levels will be added?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Impressive. By the way, any info on up to which deck it is already constructed and how many more deck levels will be added?



Maybe only one more layer?

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Maybe only one more layer?
> 
> 
> View attachment 693525
> 
> 
> View attachment 693526




And that layer equals 4 or 5 decks?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> And that layer equals 4 or 5 decks?



Maybe it should be 4-5 layers in that deck?

It looks like they are about to seal the propulsion compartment with the current level of the hull.

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## FairAndUnbiased

vi-va said:


> Also if there is any damage during the war, boiler is much easier to fix compare with nuclear.
> nuclear reactor is not possible to be fixed at all.



yep, boiler is an interchangable machine component that can be mass produced and replacable, nuclear is essentially custom made and is completely integrated with the hull. 

the other thing is, with China's innovations in coal liquefaction and carbon dioxide reduction, soon even having to use petroleum fuel would not be such a big constraint.

in reality, a CBG still need a ton of oil even with nuclear carrier because the destroyers still need oil. the biggest constraint is for subs which care far more about underwater endurance.


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 002 is the latest aircraft carrier with boilers, and I don't think the PLAN is very satisfied with it.
> 
> Also, the boilers used by the Type 002 are actually inferior to the ones used by the Kitty Hawk class, and it would have struggled to power a CATOBAR carrier of the same size as the Type 002.
> 
> 
> The earliest Nimitz class carriers actually weigh about 88k, and only the latest version has approached 100k.
> 
> Right now the Type 003 is undoubtedly heavier than the Nimitz class, and I don't know how they can suddenly pull out a super boiler that is more powerful than the one used by the Kitty Hawk class without any single trace of evidence.



But there's also no evidence for a reactor 5x more powerful than China's sub reactors, and you can't just stack small reactors, as France found out for De Gaulle.


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## ChineseTiger1986

FairAndUnbiased said:


> But there's also no evidence for a reactor 5x more powerful than China's sub reactors, and you can't just stack small reactors, as France found out for De Gaulle.



Just google the ACP100.

It is widely believed that the military version of the ACP100 will be used to power the Type 003.

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## vi-va

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Just google the ACP100.
> 
> It is widely believed that the military version of the ACP100 will be used to power the Type 003.


If that's true, the military version will replace the fuel from 4.35% 235u enrichment to something like 97.3 %. The refueling will be like 20-50 years.















https://nucleus.iaea.org/sites/INPRO/df13/Presentations/011_CNNC%27s%20ACP100%20SMR-Technique%20Features%20and%20Progress%20in%20China.pdf











A1B reactor - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org










__





A4W reactor - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## CIA Mole

Are the internals on each module pretty much complete before finally assembly? And they just need to connect the pipes and wires and stuff?


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## ChineseTiger1986

vi-va said:


> If that's true, the military version will replace the fuel from 4.35% 235u enrichment to something like 97.3 %. The refueling will be like 20-50 years.
> 
> View attachment 693573
> 
> 
> View attachment 693574
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://nucleus.iaea.org/sites/INPRO/df13/Presentations/011_CNNC%27s%20ACP100%20SMR-Technique%20Features%20and%20Progress%20in%20China.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A1B reactor - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A4W reactor - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



I think so, since China most likely has developed the military version first, then later derived the civilian version from it with lower enrichment and cost.

That's the routine, it should always be the military one first, then nurturing the civilian one.



CIA Mole said:


> Are the internals on each module pretty much complete before finally assembly? And they just need to connect the pipes and wires and stuff?



The modules from the waterline part is the most complicated to weld, because here is where the safety measurement needs the most.

I think in next month they will start to put the modules of the flight deck above the waterline.

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## Daniel808

*From CJDBY*











Indeed, a Truly Supercarrier

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## samsara

It looks like @ChineseTiger1986 starts to garner some strong support from his beloved CD  a very good sign that he may be proved as correct in his many rather visionary standings... perhaps at some time later

btw those in CD seemed to read my earlier plea for some marking on those distant / aerial / sat. grainy pics

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## ChineseTiger1986

Daniel808 said:


> *From CJDBY*
> View attachment 693680
> View attachment 693679
> View attachment 693678
> 
> 
> Indeed, a Truly Supercarrier



The Ford class in its waterline + bulbous bow is around 327 meters, and its flight deck is 332 meters.

So a carrier like the size of the Type 003 cannot be conventional powered, and Sutton got wrong about this.


samsara said:


> It looks like @ChineseTiger1986 starts to garner some strong support from his beloved CD  a very good sign that he may be proved as correct in his many rather visionary standings... perhaps at some time later
> 
> btw those in CD seemed to read my earlier plea for some marking on those distant / aerial / sat. grainy pics



The silent majority of the CD forum all supports the Type 003 being nuclear powered.

Only the mods and big shrimps of there are not that bright.

After the debacle of the prediction on the Type 003, I hope there will be a reform in that place.

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## vi-va

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Ford class in its waterline + bulbous bow is around 327 meters, and its flight deck is 332 meters.
> 
> So a carrier like the size of the Type 003 cannot be conventional powered, and Sutton got wrong about this.
> 
> 
> The silent majority of the CD forum all supports the Type 003 being nuclear powered.
> 
> Only the mods and big shrimps of there are not that bright.
> 
> After the debacle of the prediction on the Type 003, I hope there will be a reform in that place.


CD is not a good place for discussion. It's for fun.

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## Beidou2020

If @ChineseTiger1986 is right about the Type 003 he should be made a Think Tank.

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## samsara

_I gonna present in consolidated form some latest interesting posts by members at SDF for our own discussion here, at PDF -- colored emphasis is mine._

(_Temstar):_
There seems to be a lot of rumours floating around on CJDBY that a *second 003* is on the books and in fact *construction may already be under way at Jiangnan Shipyard*. Some say there are modules at Jiangnan that looks like they could be pieces of another 003 hull but I don't have a CJDBY account to see the photos for myself, anyone?

Here's a *fresh thread on this topic* just today [20201207]: https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2671466

I also read this piece last week that hinted at the same thing, although I don't think that's all that strong of a statement:








China is Working Hard to Become a Navy Superpower


The USN became the world’s largest, most powerful navy at some point during World War II, and has held that position without serious challenge since.




nationalinterest.org





Six 055 would run against POP3's claim that 14th Five Year Plan calls for building of 8 new 055, and AFAIK also 5 additional 075 instead of 3 claimed here. So take it with a grain of salt.

That said there doesn't seem to be any visible movement on 004 aside from expansion of facilities at Dalian. So if there were plan to build two carriers ASAP (given geopolitics at the moment) than another 003 would make sense. It would also fit with PLAN tradition of building new design a pair at a time. What do we think?

(_Higgle):_
Anything from fzgfzy we can take with a grain of salt. Anything from the National Interest we can take with a bucket of salt. I would believe pop3 over whatever that article claims any day of the week.

That said, *fzgfzy* has *some interesting claims* here (even though none of them have proven accurate so far):

1. Prep work in *Dalian* for *CVN* construction facilities still underway (as expected).

2. *Second 003* possibly under construction in Shanghai. This is unexpected as we all thought a second 003 (if there will be a second) would be built in Dalian.

Now, what stood out to me was this section:



> 对于同级003，这个如果有的话，搞不好已经开了，*我之前（在15年吧）说过，上海这事不是江南一家产分段的。*所以如果有第二条，可能应该巳经产了。


_"Regarding the second 003, if it exists, difficult to say if construction's started, **as I mentioned previously (in 2015), that modules are not manufactured solely by JNCX.** So if there is a second, it's possible it's already being constructed."_

_[Alternate translation of above line: "__For the same 003, in the case if there is another one, it may probably be already started. *As I have said previously (15 years ago), this matter in Shanghai is not a property division of Jiangnan family.* Therefore, in the case if there is a second one, it might probably be under progress."]_


Anyway, I wouldn't put too much faith in his claims. But he does float some interesting ideas, some of which have proven correct in the past, whether by coincidence or not.

(_Tam):_
HDZ's Changxing facility is right next to JNCX. In fact, its not clear where Jiangnan [JNCX] ends and HDZ begins. Its possible that the dock where the 003 is sitting on, is on HDZ's slice of the island, due to the CMA CGM containerships and the large LNG carriers that were contracted to HDZ being right next to 003. It may not matter that much since both are in the same CSSC, now CSG, banner, so they maybe sharing facilities and resources. It can be possible that some modules are being made in the HDZ Changxing.

*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*

HDZ: Hudong Zhonghua Shipbuilding (Group) Co., Ltd
CSSC: China State Shipbuilding Corporation
CSG: China Shipping Group
Changxing: Changxing Island, located in the mouth of the Yangtze River to the north of urban Shanghai (app. 5 km), an island within Shanghai Municipality

It always teases my thought WHERE's the role of DALIAN shipyard after the CV-17 -- I already questioned that in my earlier post quite some time ago. Will the large and experienced shipyard be sitting idly in the China's carrier endeavor? I just don't think so. Seems now some light is starting to come out... expect to learn something within the 1H 2021, or even sooner.

Then the notion of the SECOND 003 -- it's just quite logical if China really wanna build its carrier fleet. If China only builds one after another, it will take very long time to build the needed size of carrier fleet. And what a waste of resource if every factor is already there to build more, but then proceed so slow by just building one by one... it simply takes too long time and not comes into senses! Not even the reasons as articulated by some here or there that due to the completely new design... China needs to complete one first, try, operate, get the feedbacks... complete the cycle then just proceed with the next...  how many decades then to build a sizeable carrier fleet if so???

Well, well... the 2021 will definitely be the fascinating year to witness...

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## Han Patriot

samsara said:


> _I gonna present in consolidated form some latest interesting posts by members at SDF for our own discussion here, at PDF -- colored emphasis is mine._
> 
> (_Temstar):_
> There seems to be a lot of rumours floating around on CJDBY that a *second 003* is on the books and in fact *construction may already be under way at Jiangnan Shipyard*. Some say there are modules at Jiangnan that looks like they could be pieces of another 003 hull but I don't have a CJDBY account to see the photos for myself, anyone?
> 
> Here's a *fresh thread on this topic* just today [20201207]: https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2671466
> 
> I also read this piece last week that hinted at the same thing, although I don't think that's all that strong of a statement:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China is Working Hard to Become a Navy Superpower
> 
> 
> The USN became the world’s largest, most powerful navy at some point during World War II, and has held that position without serious challenge since.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nationalinterest.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Six 055 would run against POP3's claim that 14th Five Year Plan calls for building of 8 new 055, and AFAIK also 5 additional 075 instead of 3 claimed here. So take it with a grain of salt.
> 
> That said there doesn't seem to be any visible movement on 004 aside from expansion of facilities at Dalian. So if there were plan to build two carriers ASAP (given geopolitics at the moment) than another 003 would make sense. It would also fit with PLAN tradition of building new design a pair at a time. What do we think?
> 
> (_Higgle):_
> Anything from fzgfzy we can take with a grain of salt. Anything from the National Interest we can take with a bucket of salt. I would believe pop3 over whatever that article claims any day of the week.
> 
> That said, *fzgfzy* has *some interesting claims* here (even though none of them have proven accurate so far):
> 
> 1. Prep work in *Dalian* for *CVN* construction facilities still underway (as expected).
> 
> 2. *Second 003* possibly under construction in Shanghai. This is unexpected as we all thought a second 003 (if there will be a second) would be built in Dalian.
> 
> Now, what stood out to me was this section:
> 
> 
> _"Regarding the second 003, if it exists, difficult to say if construction's started, **as I mentioned previously (in 2015), that modules are not manufactured solely by JNCX.** So if there is a second, it's possible it's already being constructed."_
> 
> _[Alternate translation of above line: "__For the same 003, in the case if there is another one, it may probably be already started. *As I have said previously (15 years ago), this matter in Shanghai is not a property division of Jiangnan family.* Therefore, in the case if there is a second one, it might probably be under progress."]_
> 
> 
> Anyway, I wouldn't put too much faith in his claims. But he does float some interesting ideas, some of which have proven correct in the past, whether by coincidence or not.
> 
> (_Tam):_
> HDZ's Changxing facility is right next to JNCX. In fact, its not clear where Jiangnan [JNCX] ends and HDZ begins. Its possible that the dock where the 003 is sitting on, is on HDZ's slice of the island, due to the CMA CGM containerships and the large LNG carriers that were contracted to HDZ being right next to 003. It may not matter that much since both are in the same CSSC, now CSG, banner, so they maybe sharing facilities and resources. It can be possible that some modules are being made in the HDZ Changxing.
> 
> *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
> 
> HDZ: Hudong Zhonghua Shipbuilding (Group) Co., Ltd
> CSSC: China State Shipbuilding Corporation
> CSG: China Shipping Group
> Changxing: Changxing Island, located in the mouth of the Yangtze River to the north of urban Shanghai (app. 5 km), an island within Shanghai Municipality
> 
> It always teases my thought WHERE's the role of DALIAN shipyard after the CV-17 -- I already questioned that in my earlier post quite some time ago. Will the large and experienced shipyard be sitting idly in the China's carrier endeavor? I just don't think so. Seems now some light is starting to come out... expect to learn something within the 1H 2021, or even sooner.
> 
> Then the notion of the SECOND 003 -- it's just quite logical if China really wanna build its carrier fleet. If China only builds one after another, it will take very long time to build the needed size of carrier fleet. And what a waste of resource if every factor is already there to build more, but then proceed so slow by just building one by one... it simply takes too long time and not comes into senses! Not even the reasons as articulated by some here or there that due to the completely new design... China needs to complete one first, try, operate, get the feedbacks... complete the cycle then just proceed with the next...  how many decades then to build a sizeable carrier fleet if so???
> 
> Well, well... the 2021 will definitely be the fascinating year to witness...


I thought I opened a thread this year and told you guys Dalian is building the fourth carrier? My colleague used to work there and he told me they started work a few months back.

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## samsara

From the fresh thread mentioned earlier:
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2671466

_a poster with ID: edi100 explains the underlying logic why each class of carrier must have at least two units:_



> 不是因为有钱，是因为航母这种装备，必须2到3艘一组，否则没法正常使用。航母有大修期，如果只有一艘的话大修期的时候，舰载机联队会空出来没处训练。
> 整个战斗力就没有了。
> 所以同型号必须2艘以上一组。
> 001,002滑跃起飞，没法训练003弹射航母上的舰载机联队。
> 必须有004与003互为补充。
> 中国是因为暂时不需要远洋部署，所以可以两艘一组，如果要远洋部署的话，就必须3艘一组。
> 所以这不是练手，而是确实需要。按照最低需求造，每个级别最起码需要2艘。003,004同一个级别。



It is not because of being well-off, it is because the equipment like aircraft carriers must be in two or three in a group, otherwise they cannot be used normally. *Carriers have overhaul cycles*, and if there is only one carrier, the carrier-based aircraft wing won't have place for training during the overhaul period.
The whole combat effectiveness will be gone.
Therefore, the same model or class must at least be in two sets in a group.
The 001 & 002 have the sky jump take-off, unable to train carrier based aircraft wing on the 003 catapult aircraft carrier.
*You must have the 003 and 004 to complement each other.*
Because China does not need ocean going deployment for the time being, it can deploy in groups of two ships. If it wants to deploy offshore, it has to deploy in groups of three ships.
So it's not a practice, it's really necessary. According to the minimum requirements, at least two carriers per class. The 003 and 004 belong to the same class.




Han Patriot said:


> I thought I opened a thread this year and told you guys Dalian is building the fourth carrier? My colleague used to work there and he told me they started work a few months back.


This one is also part of the guessing game at this point of time, whether the 004 will be made in Dalian or Jiangnan, I read at a glance there is conflicting info in the CD. So I'll just wait

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## ChineseTiger1986

Here is the original plan:

Type 001 (Varyag) -> Type 002 (CV with steam catapults) -> Type 003 (CVN with steam catapults or EMALS)

They cancelled the original Type 002, and created the Type 001A for the contingent situation and replaced the original Type 002, and finally become the current Type 002.

The current Type 003 under construction is still the original Type 003.

And the status of the Type 004 is still unclear, maybe it is just a designation made by the military fans, or perhaps it doesn't exist yet.

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## Han Patriot

samsara said:


> From the fresh thread mentioned earlier:
> https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2671466
> 
> _a poster with ID: edi100 explains the underlying logic why each class of carrier must have at least two units:_
> 
> 
> 
> It is not because of being well-off, it is because the equipment like aircraft carriers must be in two or three in a group, otherwise they cannot be used normally. *Carriers have overhaul cycles*, and if there is only one carrier, the carrier-based aircraft wing won't have place for training during the overhaul period.
> The whole combat effectiveness will be gone.
> Therefore, the same model or class must at least be in two sets in a group.
> The 001 & 002 have the sky jump take-off, unable to train carrier based aircraft wing on the 003 catapult aircraft carrier.
> *You must have the 003 and 004 to complement each other.*
> Because China does not need ocean going deployment for the time being, it can deploy in groups of two ships. If it wants to deploy offshore, it has to deploy in groups of three ships.
> So it's not a practice, it's really necessary. According to the minimum requirements, at least two carriers per class. The 003 and 004 belong to the same class.
> 
> 
> 
> This one is also part of the guessing game at this point of time, whether the 004 will be made in Dalian or Jiangnan, I read at a glance there is conflicting info in the CD. So I'll just wait


We will know in a yeaar or two, i believe China will spread the workload, one North one South.


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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1335866106750255104

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## JSCh

JSCh said:


> From big cat,
> 
> 齐天大猫哥手绘专用号
> 32分钟前 来自 iPhone客户端
> 回复@遥远的它们:我国核动力船三步走已经成定局，第一步海工产品已经交付使用一年，第二步核动力特种船巳经下水准备交付，第二条准备下水（注意特种船可没限定破冰船），第三步的核动力航母在几年之后。这和美帝没关系，美帝一样搞个八堆企业。而我们相应能力的核动力特种船持续出来。请注意第一第二步已经实现了。
> 
> *Qitian big cat brother hand-painted special number
> 32 minutes ago from the iPhone client*
> 
> Reply to @遥远的They: The three-step process of our nuclear-powered ships development process is a foregone conclusion and underway. The first step of having marine nuclear propulsion products have already been delivered for one year, the second step of having nuclear-powered special purpose ship has been launched and is ready for delivery, and the second ship is ready to be launched (note that special purpose ships may not be limited to icebreakers), the third step of nuclear-powered aircraft carrier would be a few years later. How China choose this steps has nothing to do with the U.S., who has also chosen to set up eight reactors enterprises. And our nuclear-powered special purpose ships with corresponding capabilities continue to come out. Please note that the first and second steps have already been implemented.


Somewhat off-topic weibo post from Big-cat. FYI, he/she has always maintain that 003 is conventional power. Therefore installation of 003 main power refer to conventional power.

齐天大猫哥手绘专用号​7分钟前 来自 iPhone客户端​确定消息：03航母主动力安装完毕。我国海洋核动力三步走依然前行。第一步核动力海工平台已服役。第二步，一大波核动力特种船（2万吨级、3万吨级）即将到来。​
*Qitian big cat brother hand-painted special number*
7 minutes ago

Confirmed news: The main power of the 003 aircraft carrier is installed. my country's marine nuclear power is still moving forward in three steps. The first nuclear-powered offshore platform has been put into service. In the second step, a large wave of nuclear-powered special ships (20,000-ton class and 30,000-ton class) is coming.

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## Figaro

JSCh said:


> Somewhat off-topic weibo post from Big-cat. FYI, he/she has always maintain that 003 is conventional power. Therefore installation of 003 main power refer to conventional power.
> 
> 齐天大猫哥手绘专用号​7分钟前 来自 iPhone客户端​确定消息：03航母主动力安装完毕。我国海洋核动力三步走依然前行。第一步核动力海工平台已服役。第二步，一大波核动力特种船（2万吨级、3万吨级）即将到来。​
> *Qitian big cat brother hand-painted special number*
> 7 minutes ago
> 
> Confirmed news: The main power of the 003 aircraft carrier is installed. my country's marine nuclear power is still moving forward in three steps. The first nuclear-powered offshore platform has been put into service. In the second step, a large wave of nuclear-powered special ships (20,000-ton class and 30,000-ton class) is coming.
> 
> View attachment 695159​


I thought he was no longer regarded as credible?


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## JSCh

Figaro said:


> I thought he was no longer regarded as credible?


For some, yes that is true. But he/she is still moderator of cjdby.net, so maybe he has more access to info?


----------



## vi-va

Figaro said:


> I thought he was no longer regarded as credible?


I have said many times previously, tonnage has nothing to do with nuclear power or conventional power. 
I hope 003 is nuclear powered, but not realistic imo.

Conventional power has no limit, 80k or 100k doesn't matter much.

I say this because someone working in the industry told me.

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## samsara

vi-va said:


> I have said many times previously, tonnage has nothing to do with nuclear power or conventional power.
> I hope 003 is nuclear powered, but not realistic imo.
> 
> Conventional power has no limit, 80k or 100k doesn't matter much.
> 
> I say this because someone working in the industry told me.


The more I pay attention on this subject and the more I read around lately, I found out the more likely the 003 and 004 will remain be CVs, but the 005 will definitely be CVN -- no one questions that 005! But I don't want to overemphasize the power thing, let the time be the unswerving revealer!

Be it CV/CVN, I am just happy to witness the birth of each of them!!! And moreover they'll be significantly more sizeable than 001-002!! I am just happy for that very reality! 😍 And let's not being swayed away by this issue upon all the Chinese achievements in carrier things in such short span of time...

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## vi-va

samsara said:


> The more I pay attention on this subject and the more I read around lately, I found out the more likely the 003 and 004 will remain be CVs, but the 005 will definitely be CVN -- no one questions that 005! But I don't want to overemphasize the power thing, let the time be the unswerving revealer!
> 
> Be it CV/CVN, I am just happy to witness the birth of each of them!!! And moreover they'll be significantly more sizeable than 001-002!! I am just happy for that very reality! 😍 And let's not being swayed away by this issue upon all the Chinese achievements in carrier things in such short span of time...


VN or CVN really doesn't matter that much nowadays. The future of SEA POWER has little to do with aircraft carrier. H-20 will dominate.

Aircraft carriers still are important for power projection, especially safe guard our oversea interest.

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## samsara

vi-va said:


> VN or CVN really doesn't matter that much nowadays. The future of SEA POWER has little to do with aircraft carrier. H-20 will dominate.
> 
> Aircraft carriers still are important for power projection, especially safe guard our oversea interest.


Yeah, CVBG for power projection + psyche --> mobile power display. Useful, needed but not such decisive.

However, in the Chinese case, indeed the more important thing will be the genuinely deterrent Nuke Triad: more nuke warheads + delivery means both strategic and tactical ones. And the coming few dozens of 096 SSBN with JL-3 will be a very good peace keeping force for China, also 095 SSN will be important too, to form the very capable submarine force.

The effective, capable and reliable Nuke Triad force will essentially ensure the true peace for China!!

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## vi-va

samsara said:


> Yeah, CVBG for power projection + psyche --> mobile power display. Useful, needed but not such decisive.
> 
> However, in the Chinese case, indeed the more important thing will be the genuinely deterrent Nuke Triad: more nuke warheads + delivery means both strategic and tactical ones. And the coming few dozens of 096 SSBN with JL-3 will be a very good peace keeping force for China, also 095 SSN will be important too, to form the very capable submarine force.
> 
> The effective, capable and reliable Nuke Triad force will essentially ensure the true peace for China!!



No matter how many nukes we have, US is 12000 km away from us.
US nukes can be less than 1000 km away from us potentially, which is Okinawa. US has the options open to deploy nukes forward, we don't.
We need to penetrate THAAD like systems, which has already been deployed forward in South Korea. There is no way we can deploy THAAD like system in Canada or Mexco.
The more nukes we have, the eager Japan ask more protection and safety which make sense. Either from US or themselves, which means remilitarized Japan and nuke armed Japan. Just like how Pakistan responded to India.
Another potential damage for more nukes is China-Russia relationship. The more nukes we have, the more suspicious Russian feels. The conventional power balance is on our side, but nukes deterrence is on Russia side, that's the foundation of our relationship. 
China can have either certain degree of trust of Russians or equal nuclear deterrence. We can't have both.

I did my nuclear strategy homework some years ago, no good options imo.

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## samsara

vi-va said:


> No matter how many nukes we have, US is 12000 km away from us.
> US nukes can be less than 1000 km away from us potentially, which is Okinawa. US has the options open to deploy nukes forward, we don't.
> We need to penetrate THAAD like systems, which has already been deployed forward in South Korea. There is no way we can deploy THAAD like system in Canada or Mexco.
> The more nukes we have, the eager Japan ask more protection and safety which make sense. Either from US or themselves, which means remilitarized Japan and nuke armed Japan. Just like how Pakistan responded to India.
> Another potential damage for more nukes is China-Russia relationship. The more nukes we have, the more suspicious Russian feels. The conventional power balance is on our side, but nukes deterrence is on Russia side, that's the foundation of our relationship.
> China can have either certain degree of trust of Russians or equal nuclear deterrence. We can't have both.
> 
> I did my nuclear strategy homework some years ago, no good options imo.


I won't distract further this 003 thread after this one, but I had posted earlier in *this thread*... that all the conventional stuffs won't deter a mad domination seeker under decaying condition to suddenly attack using its overwhelming nuke stockpiles to wipe out its peer rival in order to maintain its supremacy when the opposite is deemed as having no enough stocks to send back adequate deterrence -- that is unable to exert the true MAD doctrine.

When the strongest rival is wiped out, the sick man then becomes quite a healthy man for all others will live in terrible fear and do what it commands and feed the beast with all the nutrients to get strong and healthy again, at any price & sacrifice!! And I don't appreciate at all that deliberately being weak brings any value under current mad mad, wild wild west style world. THINK why FAS deliberately keeps on reporting a meager stockpile of China until today (they just released their latest report in Dec 2020 -- I posted in Missile thread). As a major power with the largest population, No. 1 or 2 economy depends on yardstick (and pretty soon be the largest one on whatever yardstick) and No.2 in landmass, the safety, survival and existential continuity of the longest continuous civilization on Earth should lie on its own hands and not relying on any other! well, I am out and won't reply further on this matter here at 003 thread.

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## CIA Mole

feel like carriers are just like tanks, good at picking off enemies with no counters


does any military have full confidence that a carrier can survive missile barrage?



even Iran can take out a carrier group if they had enough cheap missiles.

$100 million in anti ship missiles can probably cause like $20-$30 billion damage .

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## samsara

CIA Mole said:


> feel like carriers are just like tanks, good at picking off enemies with no counters
> 
> 
> does any military have full confidence that a carrier can survive missile barrage?
> 
> 
> 
> even Iran can take out a carrier group if they had enough cheap missiles.
> 
> $100 million in anti ship missiles can probably cause like $20-$30 billion damage .


That's why the Uncle Sam attaches the "nuke shield" insurance to its CVBG... the carriers are the extensions of its territories....attacking the carrier is attacking CONUS, and Uncle may nuke you if you do! So far the victim nations like Afghan, Iraq, Libya, Somali have no means to attack the carriers, thus irrelevant. Iran is a different case, Iran has the capability to hit the carrier. The nuke shield applies. Still Uncle is quite cautious in using CVBG to attack Iran. The Strait of Hormuz is quite narrow, CVBG will be the sitting ducks in real conflict there.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> I thought he was no longer regarded as credible?



He doesn't even have a slight clue about the Type 075, and expect him to know something much more confidential like the Type 003?

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## ChineseTiger1986

vi-va said:


> I hope 003 is nuclear powered, but not realistic imo.
> 
> Conventional power has no limit, 80k or 100k doesn't matter much.



Only the Type 003 being non-nuclear is not realistic.

Let's assume the Type 003 uses the boilers like the Type 001/002. However, the old Soviet era boilers are seriously underpowered and cannot provide efficient power to a behemoth like the Type 003. And China needs to spend a lot of money to develop a powerful retro technology without any economic sustainability.

If the Type 003 uses the gas turbines, then it needs much bigger island structure than both Type 001 or Type 002, or having a twin island structure like the QE class. And it is also underpowered.

By following these logics, you tell me what type of the power is most suitable for the Type 003?

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## Deino

Can anyone explain this a bit more in detail?

Allegedly from the front page of an official brochure of the 14th Research Institute of the China Electronics Technology Corporation (CETC), which shows eventually the fourth Chinese aircraft carrier (looks like no. 19 on the bow). 

But I cannot find the original source and as such the question is, how credible is this artwork?
At least the given link leads to nothing.

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## casual

Deino said:


> Can anyone explain this a bit more in detail?
> 
> Allegedly from the front page of an official brochure of the 14th Research Institute of the China Electronics Technology Corporation (CETC), which shows eventually the fourth Chinese aircraft carrier (looks like no. 19 on the bow).
> 
> But I cannot find the original source and as such the question is, how credible is this artwork?
> At least the given link leads to nothing.
> 
> View attachment 695455
> 
> 
> View attachment 695458


encouragement to students taking exams. not related to AC.


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Only the Type 003 being non-nuclear is not realistic.
> 
> Let's assume the Type 003 uses the boilers like the Type 001/002. However, the old Soviet era boilers are seriously underpowered and cannot provide efficient power to a behemoth like the Type 003. And China needs to spend a lot of money to develop a powerful retro technology without any economic sustainability.
> 
> If the Type 003 uses the gas turbines, then it needs much bigger island structure than both Type 001 or Type 002, or having a twin island structure like the QE class. And it is also underpowered.
> 
> By following these logics, you tell me what type of the power is most suitable for the Type 003?


whatever is it we'll know soon enough. we could start a betting poll. I'm going with gas turbines.

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## ozranger

Deino said:


> Can anyone explain this a bit more in detail?
> 
> Allegedly from the front page of an official brochure of the 14th Research Institute of the China Electronics Technology Corporation (CETC), which shows eventually the fourth Chinese aircraft carrier (looks like no. 19 on the bow).
> 
> But I cannot find the original source and as such the question is, how credible is this artwork?
> At least the given link leads to nothing.
> 
> View attachment 695455
> 
> 
> View attachment 695458


Worth noting that It is a conventional fuel powered carrier.


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## Deino

ozranger said:


> Worth noting that It is a conventional fuel powered carrier.




Indeed it has a funnel.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Can anyone explain this a bit more in detail?
> 
> Allegedly from the front page of an official brochure of the 14th Research Institute of the China Electronics Technology Corporation (CETC), which shows eventually the fourth Chinese aircraft carrier (looks like no. 19 on the bow).
> 
> But I cannot find the original source and as such the question is, how credible is this artwork?
> At least the given link leads to nothing.
> 
> View attachment 695455
> 
> 
> View attachment 695458



It was a fan made CG back from 2018-2019.

And this carrier doesn't even look like the actual Type 003.


casual said:


> whatever is it we'll know soon enough. we could start a betting poll. I'm going with gas turbines.



If it is powered by the gas turbines, then expect two possibilities:

- either the island structure being much larger than the Type 001/002

- or it would have a twin island structure like the QE class


Deino said:


> Indeed it has a funnel.



Because fzgfzy said so.

According to his own logic, the Type 003 should even have the export port beneath the waterline.

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## vi-va

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Only the Type 003 being non-nuclear is not realistic.
> 
> Let's assume the Type 003 uses the boilers like the Type 001/002. However, the old Soviet era boilers are seriously underpowered and cannot provide efficient power to a behemoth like the Type 003. And China needs to spend a lot of money to develop a powerful retro technology without any economic sustainability.
> 
> If the Type 003 uses the gas turbines, then it needs much bigger island structure than both Type 001 or Type 002, or having a twin island structure like the QE class. And it is also underpowered.
> 
> By following these logics, you tell me what type of the power is most suitable for the Type 003?


Whatever we have on the shelves is the most suitable for us. No matter boiler, gas, diesel, or gas + diesel, better than nothing.
No matter 2 aircraft carriers or 3, US has the number on their side. 
In this stage:
2 is much better than 1, we can have 1 available in most of time of the year. 
3 is much better than 2, we can have 1 available anytime. 
4 is best, we can have 1-2 available anytime, and 2 aircraft carriers strike group can knock down most of the navy in the world except US.

Our mission right now is not challenging US in the open ocean, not in our interest. But 2 aircraft carriers strike group can deter any other countries along South China Sea - Malacca - India Ocean.

So it's urgent for us to have 1-2 more carrier ready asap. No matter what it is.

It's national strategy needs, whatever suitable technically is better than nothing for our China.

4 carriers is good enough to keep India navy lower hand for at least 15 years.


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## ChineseTiger1986

vi-va said:


> Whatever we have on the shelves is the most suitable for us. No matter boiler, gas, diesel, or gas + diesel, better than nothing.
> No matter 2 aircraft carriers or 3, US has the number on their side.
> In this stage:
> 2 is much better than 1, we can have 1 available in most of time of the year.
> 3 is much better than 2, we can have 1 available anytime.
> 4 is best, we can have 1-2 available anytime, and 2 aircraft carriers strike group can knock down most of the navy in the world except US.
> 
> Our mission right now is not challenging US in the open ocean, not in our interest. But 2 aircraft carriers strike group can deter any other countries along South China Sea - Malacca - India Ocean.
> 
> So it's urgent for us to have 1-2 more carrier ready asap. No matter what it is.
> 
> It's national strategy needs, whatever suitable technically is better than nothing for our China.
> 
> 4 carriers is good enough to keep India navy lower hand for at least 15 years.



To build a functional CVN with the EMALS will serve as a psychological warfare, and it is about to demonstrate China's technology superiority.

China doesn't need the carrier battlegroups to breach the 1st/2nd island chain, but the DF-26/27 could do this job much more efficiently.

The hot war between the US and China is unlikely to happen, but we are now into serious arm race since the last Cold War.

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## vi-va

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> To build a functional CVN with the EMALS will serve as a psychological warfare, and it is about to demonstrate China's technology superiority.
> 
> China doesn't need the carrier battlegroups to breach the 1st/2nd island chain, but the DF-26/27 could do this job much more efficiently.
> 
> The hot war between the US and China is unlikely to happen, but we are now into serious arm race since the last Cold War.


Don't over estimate ballistic missiles. Ballistic missile is more meaningful for deterrence, as well as first strike. Over the time, aircraft runway will be repaired, missiles are very limited, can not support a full scale war with rival like US, India. 

US is not small country, she has tremendous resource and strong military industry. If a full scale war break out with US, it may last many years before nuclear weapons used. Missiles are only meaningful in the first couple of days, or weeks. 

I agree no matter what carrier we have, really doesn't matter much to break the first island chain. but it's very meaningful after breaking first island chain, because our interests are not limited in first island chain, but also along the silk road, Malacca, Indian Ocean. 

The carriers are less and less meaningful for SEA POWER dominance anyway, the future depends on bomber and distributed sensors, such as satellites in space, unmanned sub under the sea, network based unmanned AWACS.

Carriers are more designed for oversea power projection, against smaller countries, to protect our over sea interest.

H-20 will be the final SEA POWER dominator for next 20-50 years. US will use B-21 as well as Japan, Australia, Hawaii to counter balance China.


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## ChineseTiger1986

vi-va said:


> Don't over estimate ballistic missiles. Ballistic missile is more meaningful for deterrence, as well as first strike. Over the time, aircraft runway will be repaired, missiles are very limited, can not support a full scale war with rival like US, India.
> 
> US is not small country, she has tremendous resource and strong military industry. If a full scale war break out with US, it may last many years before nuclear weapons used. Missiles are only meaningful in the first couple of days, or weeks.
> 
> I agree no matter what carrier we have, really doesn't matter much to break the first island chain. but it's very meaningful after breaking first island chain, because our interests are not limited in first island chain, but also along the silk road, Malacca, Indian Ocean.
> 
> The carriers are less and less meaningful for SEA POWER dominance anyway, the future depends on bomber and distributed sensors, such as satellites in space, unmanned sub under the sea, network based unmanned AWACS.
> 
> Carriers are more designed for oversea power projection, against smaller countries, to protect our over sea interest.
> 
> H-20 will be the final SEA POWER dominator for next 20-50 years. US will use B-21 as well as Japan, Australia, Hawaii to counter balance China.



China has never underestimated the US, but it is the US who has constantly overestimated its power and capability. Heck, they can't even handle the COVID-19.

Back to the topic.

In order for the Type 003 being conventional, either it get powered by those crappy Soviet-era boilers or having a twin island structure like the QE class. And the PLAN elites definitely won't like any of these options.

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## vi-va

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China has never underestimated the US, but it is the US who has constantly overestimated its power and capability. Heck, they can't even handle the COVID-19.
> 
> Back to the topic.
> 
> In order for the Type 003 being conventional, either it get powered by those crappy Soviet-era boilers or having a twin island structure like the QE class. And the PLAN elites definitely won't like any of these options.


so many years passed, I bet the 003 be using different boilers.


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## shanlung

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China has never underestimated the US, but it is the US who has constantly overestimated its power and capability. Heck, they can't even handle the COVID-19.



Muricans cannot even handle their own* erections

 
*

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## ChineseTiger1986

vi-va said:


> so many years passed, I bet the 003 be using different boilers.



The boiler belongs to a technology tree with a dead end, you can literally forget about it.

The most recent aircraft carrier using the boilers is the Type 002, but it is not a top notch supercarrier like the Type 003.

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## FuturePAF

vi-va said:


> No matter how many nukes we have, US is 12000 km away from us.
> US nukes can be less than 1000 km away from us potentially, which is Okinawa. US has the options open to deploy nukes forward, we don't.
> We need to penetrate THAAD like systems, which has already been deployed forward in South Korea. There is no way we can deploy THAAD like system in Canada or Mexco.
> The more nukes we have, the eager Japan ask more protection and safety which make sense. Either from US or themselves, which means remilitarized Japan and nuke armed Japan. Just like how Pakistan responded to India.
> Another potential damage for more nukes is China-Russia relationship. The more nukes we have, the more suspicious Russian feels. The conventional power balance is on our side, but nukes deterrence is on Russia side, that's the foundation of our relationship.
> China can have either certain degree of trust of Russians or equal nuclear deterrence. We can't have both.
> 
> I did my nuclear strategy homework some years ago, no good options imo.



Unless China based forward in Venezuela and pulls a Cuban missile crisis style trade; Nukes out of Venezuela in exchange for nukes out of the western Pacific.

It would be a dramatic escalation and basically a military confrontation, like the 1962 standoff. No going back after that. People will see China as a military threat first and foremost.

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## Figaro

vi-va said:


> so many years passed, I bet the 003 be using different boilers.


No doubt but even advanced boilers cannot come close to the efficiency offered by nuclear reactors. China has the technology and has put a EM catapult on the next carrier, so why not make the extra leap?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> No doubt but even advanced boilers cannot come close to the efficiency offered by nuclear reactors. China has the technology and has put a EM catapult on the next carrier, so why not make the extra leap?



The twin A4W reactors of the Nimitz class can provide the power to the generators to generate a total electric power of 64 MW. And the twin A1B reactors of the Ford class is even more impressive at 192 MW.

In contrast, the boilers of the Kitty Hawk class can only do a measly 14 MW.

Not mentioned that the Soviet boilers used by the Type 001/002 are much more inferior to those used by the Kitty Hawk class.

The only conventional option for the Type 003 is the gas turbines with the QE class as an example.

However, the QE class is only 2/3 the size of the Type 003, and I doubt the gas turbines can handle this.

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## vi-va

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The twin A4W reactors of the Nimitz class can provide the power to the generators to generate a total electric power of 64 MW. And the twin A1B reactors of the Ford class is even more impressive at 192 MW.
> 
> In contrast, the boilers of the Kitty Hawk class can only do a measly 14 MW.
> 
> Not mentioned that the Soviet boilers used by the Type 001/002 are much more inferior to those used by the Kitty Hawk class.
> 
> The only conventional option for the Type 003 is the gas turbines with the QE class as an example.
> 
> However, the QE class is only 2/3 the size of the Type 003, and I doubt the gas turbines can handle this.



I bet China can build better boiler than Kitty Hawk in 1961, I am sure.
If you compare the power consumption data of Kitty Hawk and Nimitz, Kitty Hawk has more horsepower per tonnage, and better speed.
If you compare the power consumption data of Kitty Hawk and Ford, Ford has around* 560mw* of power in total including* shaft horsepower and electricity. Ford has 2.67 times of power of Kitty Hawk.*
*As long as China can build better boiler than Kitty Hawk which is for sure, I don't see problem to power 003.*

*Kitty Hawk-class aircraft carrier*


In commission:*21 April 1961* – 31 January 2009


Displacement:
60,933 long tons (61,911 t) light
81,780 long tons (83,090 t) full load

*32 kn *

8 x steam boilers with Westinghouse geared steam turbines
4 x shafts
*280,000 shp (210 MW)*
*Nimitz-class aircraft carrier*


Displacement:100,000 to 104,600 long tons
*30+ knots *

*260,000 shp (194 MW)*

*Ford A1B reactor*

In excess of *30 **knots*
About 100,000 long tons (100,000 tonnes) (full load)[4]

These generate enough steam to produce approximately *100 MW of electricity, plus 140,000 shaft horsepower (104 MW) *for each of the ship's four shafts – two per propulsion plant

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## Han Patriot

Figaro said:


> No doubt but even advanced boilers cannot come close to the efficiency offered by nuclear reactors. China has the technology and has put a EM catapult on the next carrier, so why not make the extra leap?


Bro, sorry to say this reactors will use steam too and if China can make superheated steam which what is used in ultra super critical boilers, they can use the reactor to heat steam to that pressure and temperature. The key lies with material for the tubing.


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## White and Green with M/S

vi-va said:


> so many years passed, I bet the 003 be using different boilers.


how can you refuel boiler powered aircraft carrier in deep pacific and Indian oceans, water nuclear reactors are take years to refuel, please answer my question???


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## vi-va

White and Green with M/S said:


> how can you refuel boiler powered aircraft carrier in deep pacific and Indian oceans, water nuclear reactors are take years to refuel, please answer my question???


Please do your basic homework before asking any simple questions.
There are tons of threads on PDF you can search and get the answer all by yourself.








Type 901 fast combat support ship - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org












Type 903 replenishment ship - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## vi-va

Han Patriot said:


> Bro, sorry to say this reactors will use steam too and if China can make superheated steam which what is used in ultra super critical boilers, they can use the reactor to heat steam to that pressure and temperature. The key lies with material for the tubing.


China is the largest user of ultra-supercritical power generator in the world. There is no technology issues at all.












Supercritical steam generator - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




*A State-of-the-art Review of Chemical Component Study of theCandidate Steel for 650 ℃ Ultra-supercritical Boiler Tube *


http://www.mater-rep.com/CN/10.11896/j.issn.1005-023X.2018.13.005


*Yuhuan 1,000MW Ultra-Supercritical Pressure Boilers*








Yuhuan 1,000MW Ultra-Supercritical Pressure Boilers


The Huaneng Yuhuan power plant located on the coast of East China’s Zhejiang Province has China’s first 1,000MW ultra-supercritical pressure boilers.




www.power-technology.com

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## ChineseTiger1986

vi-va said:


> I bet China can build better boiler than Kitty Hawk in 1961, I am sure.
> If you compare the power consumption data of Kitty Hawk and Nimitz, Kitty Hawk has more horsepower per tonnage, and better speed.
> If you compare the power consumption data of Kitty Hawk and Ford, Ford has around* 560mw* of power in total including* shaft horsepower and electricity. Ford has 2.67 times of power of Kitty Hawk.*
> *As long as China can build better boiler than Kitty Hawk which is for sure, I don't see problem to power 003.*
> 
> *Kitty Hawk-class aircraft carrier*
> 
> 
> In commission:*21 April 1961* – 31 January 2009
> 
> 
> Displacement:
> 60,933 long tons (61,911 t) light
> 81,780 long tons (83,090 t) full load
> 
> *32 kn *
> 
> 8 x steam boilers with Westinghouse geared steam turbines
> 4 x shafts
> *280,000 shp (210 MW)*
> *Nimitz-class aircraft carrier*
> 
> 
> Displacement:100,000 to 104,600 long tons
> *30+ knots *
> 
> *260,000 shp (194 MW)*
> 
> *Ford A1B reactor*
> 
> In excess of *30 **knots*
> About 100,000 long tons (100,000 tonnes) (full load)[4]
> 
> These generate enough steam to produce approximately *100 MW of electricity, plus 140,000 shaft horsepower (104 MW) *for each of the ship's four shafts – two per propulsion plant



Many people have failed to understand that 280,000 or 260,000 is the shaft horsepower provided by the steam turbines, which has the purpose to propel the ship.

However, the power generated by the boilers can only feed those steam turbines, but it will fail to provide the electric power for a modern supercarrier like the Type 003 with the EMALS/AAG/dual band radars.

Look at the powerful A1B twin reactors of the Ford class, it can feed enough power to propel those steam turbines at 280,000 shaft horsepower, meanwhile also provide enough electric power to feed those EMALS/AAG/dual band radars. And this something that the boilers can never achieve.

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## CIA Mole

Maybe they will use batteries and ultracapacitors for torque and the EMALS?


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## ChineseTiger1986

CIA Mole said:


> Maybe they will use batteries and ultracapacitors for torque and the EMALS?



Most ships will use the electric generators.

The nuclear reactor will first produce heat that generates the steam from the steam turbines in order to propel the ship.

Then the steam turbine is also connected with the electric generators to produce the electricity.

BTW, the boilers of the Kitty Hawk class can only generate 14 MW of electricity after feeding the steam turbines, so no way it can satisfy the electric power of a modern supercarrier.

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## CIA Mole

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Most ship will use the electric generators.
> 
> The nuclear reactor will first produce heat that generates the steam from the steam turbines in order to propel the ship.
> 
> Then the steam turbine is also connected with the electric generators to produce the electricity.
> 
> BTW, the boilers of the Kitty Hawk class can only generate 14 MW of electricity after feeding the steam turbines, so no way it can satisfy the electric power of a modern supercarrier.



Why not just add more generators? 
Is it cheaper to go nuclear? Or cheaper to stay with oil?


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## ChineseTiger1986

CIA Mole said:


> Why not just add more generators?
> Is it cheaper to go nuclear? Or cheaper to stay with oil?



The generators are only converting the power from the plant into electricity.

When your boilers are the source power of the plant, and it is weak, there still won't be enough power to be converting into electricity.

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## vi-va

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Many people have failed to understand that 280,000 or 260,000 is the shaft horsepower provided by the steam turbines, which has the purpose to propel the ship.
> 
> However, the power generated by the boilers can only feed those steam turbines, but it will fail to provide the electric power for a modern supercarrier like the Type 003 with the EMALS/AAG/dual band radars.
> 
> Look at the powerful A1B twin reactors of the Ford class, it can feed enough power to propel those steam turbines at 280,000 shaft horsepower, meanwhile also provide enough electric power to feed those EMALS/AAG/dual band radars. And this something that the boilers can never achieve.


The MHI boilers have a main steam pressure of *27.5MPa*, the main steam temperature of *605°C *and a reheat steam temperature of 603°C. 
That Chinese boiler commissioned in 2006








Yuhuan 1,000MW Ultra-Supercritical Pressure Boilers


The Huaneng Yuhuan power plant located on the coast of East China’s Zhejiang Province has China’s first 1,000MW ultra-supercritical pressure boilers.




www.power-technology.com









The Kitty Hawk used a boiler with *8,300 kPa*, while Chinese Ultra-Supercritical Pressure Boilers is *27.5MPa*, the main steam temperature of *605°C.

I bet China is capable to build a much more efficient/compact boiler as well as steam turbines than Kitty Hawk.*








Kitty Hawk-class aircraft carrier - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






CIA Mole said:


> Why not just add more generators?
> Is it cheaper to go nuclear? Or cheaper to stay with oil?


I think space, weight and efficiency are some constrains. Please see my another post for more details.
The better way is increasing the pressure, and temperature of boiler, as well as improving the steam turbines
*Ultra-supercritical pressure boilers*


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

vi-va said:


> The MHI boilers have a main steam pressure of *27.5MPa*, the main steam temperature of *605°C *and a reheat steam temperature of 603°C.
> That Chinese boiler commissioned in 2006
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yuhuan 1,000MW Ultra-Supercritical Pressure Boilers
> 
> 
> The Huaneng Yuhuan power plant located on the coast of East China’s Zhejiang Province has China’s first 1,000MW ultra-supercritical pressure boilers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.power-technology.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 696516
> 
> The Kitty Hawk used a boiler with *8,300 kPa*, while Chinese Ultra-Supercritical Pressure Boilers is *27.5MPa*, the main steam temperature of *605°C.
> 
> I bet China is capable to build a much more efficient/compact boiler as well as steam turbines than Kitty Hawk.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kitty Hawk-class aircraft carrier - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think space, weight and efficiency are some constrains. Please see my another post for more details.
> The better way is increasing the pressure, and temperature of boiler, as well as improving the steam turbines
> *Ultra-supercritical pressure boilers*



Yet the A1B twin reactors are 13-14 times more efficient for generating the electric power than the boilers of the Kitty Hawk.

And are you sure that the new boilers could be 13-14 times more powerful than the boilers of the Kitty Hawk? It is only 3 times at best.

That's why they have ditched the original Type 002 with steam catapults.


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## vi-va

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yet the A1B twin reactors are 13-14 times more efficient for generating the electric power than the boilers of the Kitty Hawk.
> 
> And are you sure that the new boilers could be 13-14 times more powerful than the boilers of the Kitty Hawk? It is only 3 times at best.
> 
> That's why they have ditched the original Type 002 with steam catapults.


Of course not. I am sure conventional boiler are bigger and less power compact than A1B, far inferior.
But as I pointed out, it's far better than nothing.

China national interest need 3-4 carrier to deter India asap, huge interest along the sea route.

While 20 billions USD extra expense is not a thing compare with that national interest.

I prefer to delay the project if our rival not yet gang up, but they do gang up as QUAD.

China has tremendous advantage in Aksai Chin, along the land border. But India has a lot of geography advantage in Indian Ocean. So China need carriers no matter what we have on the shelves.

A less powered 003 is still 1000 times better than none.

As long as China have upper hands on both land border and Sea Route, India will be very cautious to join the QUAD, so that China has the preferred terms on diplomacy.

Cold War or hot war, whatever has started. Better equipped than sorry.

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## ChineseTiger1986

vi-va said:


> Of course not. I am sure conventional boiler are bigger and less power compact than A1B, far inferior.
> But as I pointed out, it's far better than nothing.
> 
> China national interest need 3-4 carrier to deter India asap, huge interest along the sea route.
> 
> While 20 billions USD extra expense is not a thing compare with that national interest.
> 
> I prefer to delay the project if our rival not yet gang up, but they do gang up as QUAD.
> 
> China has tremendous advantage in Aksai Chin, along the land border. But India has a lot of geography advantage in Indian Ocean. So China need carriers no matter what we have on the shelves.
> 
> A less powered 003 is still 1000 times better than none.
> 
> As long as China have upper hands on both land border and Sea Route, India will be very cautious to join the QUAD, so that China has the preferred terms on diplomacy.
> 
> Cold War or hot war, whatever has started. Better equipped than sorry.



Also, you are comparing apple to orange.

The boiler you mentioned is a coal-fired/land based one, it is vastly different from the oil-fired/shipborne ones used by the aircraft carriers like Liaoning/Shandong/Kitty Hawk.

BTW, China's current shipborne nuclear reactor is much more reliable than its boiler technology.

Everything has its first time, and the Type 003 will be the first trial.

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## White and Green with M/S

vi-va said:


> Please do your basic homework before asking any simple questions.
> There are tons of threads on PDF you can search and get the answer all by yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Type 901 fast combat support ship - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Type 903 replenishment ship - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 696496
> 
> 
> View attachment 696497
> 
> 
> View attachment 696498


Thousands of miles from the home and in front of the enemy its not possible,its only viable in near China like SCS/MALACCA STRAIT ONLY

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## LKJ86

White and Green with M/S said:


> Thousands of miles from the home and in front of the enemy its not possible,its only viable in near China like SCS/MALACCA STRAIT ONLY


Do you need a CVN to fight alone? Or all nuclear-powered warships?


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## vi-va

White and Green with M/S said:


> Thousands of miles from the home and in front of the enemy its not possible,its only viable in near China like SCS/MALACCA STRAIT ONLY


That's not the problem of refueling, but tactic. 
You should not risk your carrier to the sea water where you can't protect itself. 
If the generals are that stupid, no matter what weapon you have, you will lose the war.


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Also, you are comparing apple to orange.
> 
> The boiler you mentioned is a coal-fired/land based one, it is vastly different from the oil-fired/shipborne ones used by the aircraft carriers like Liaoning/Shandong/Kitty Hawk.
> 
> BTW, China's current shipborne nuclear reactor is much more reliable than its boiler technology.
> 
> Everything has its first time, and the Type 003 will be the first trial.


boiler is a pressure container + pipe. As long as your materials are good enough, you can keep increasing the pressure and temp.


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## samsara

*PLEASE every poster in this Column*.... please do not fill up this *MAJOR THREAD *entertaining silly posts, let people like that believe WHATEVER they wish, do not entertain them thus *derailing* this thread! There is simply no point to try to convince or correct whatever one wanna believe... let folks like that have their own faith... just care less... do not sacrifice this thread!!! 

Thank you for the cooperation!

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## White and Green with M/S

vi-va said:


> That's not the problem of refueling, but tactic.
> You should not risk your carrier to the sea water where you can't protect itself.
> If the generals are that stupid, no matter what weapon you have, you will lose the war.


Anyways your wishes of that's type 3 will have boilers is not going to happen it will have either gas turbine or NUCLEAR reactors, your boilers has no chances to be installed on type 3 aircraft carrier

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## ChineseTiger1986

vi-va said:


> boiler is a pressure container + pipe. As long as your materials are good enough, you can keep increasing the pressure and temp.



Keep in mind that the CV-17 was built almost a decade later than the aforementioned coal-fired boiler, but it still uses the underpowered Soviet boilers, so China currently doesn't possess any more powerful boiler.

Also keep in mind that a supercarrier is projected to have a lifespan of approximately 50 years, and they won't build a white elephant for 50 years.


White and Green with M/S said:


> Anyways your wishes of that's type 3 will have boilers is not going to happen it will have either gas turbine or NUCLEAR reactors, your boilers has no chances to be installed on type 3 aircraft carrier



Yep, the boiler is pretty much a lost cause, since China doesn't have any super powerful boiler to power the Type 003.

If the Type 003 has a single island structure, then it would be nuclear powered for sure.

If it has a twin island structure, then they are going to use the gas turbines.

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## vi-va

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Keep in mind that the CV-17 was built almost a decade later than the aforementioned coal-fired boiler, but it still uses the underpowered Soviet boilers, so China currently doesn't possess any more powerful boiler.
> 
> Also keep in mind that a supercarrier is projected to have a lifespan of approximately 50 years, and they won't build a white elephant for 50 years.
> 
> 
> Yep, the boiler is pretty much a lost cause, since China doesn't have any super powerful boiler to power the Type 003.
> 
> If the Type 003 has a single island structure, then it would be nuclear powered for sure.
> 
> If it has a twin island structure, then they are going to use the gas turbines.


I am not sure 002 is using underpowered Soviet boilers, so far 002 is running as fast as 001, 30+ knot.
As long as 002 power needs met, nothing wrong to use similar boiler of 001, so that the maintenance will be easier.

Not always best weapons& equipment be used, cost will be considered as well.

I am sure 003 will use something else than 002. But nuclear reactor will be a little bit too optimistic.


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## White and Green with M/S

vi-va said:


> I am not sure 002 is using underpowered Soviet boilers, so far 002 is running as fast as 001, 30+ knot.
> As long as 002 power needs met, nothing wrong to use similar boiler of 001, so that the maintenance will be easier.
> 
> Not always best weapons& equipment be used, cost will be considered as well.
> 
> I am sure 003 will use something else than 002. But nuclear reactor will be a little bit too optimistic.


oh troll what about power to weight ratio, in the long run nuclear reactors have more advantages over boilers, boilers has more wear and tear hence more maintenance prone than nuclear reactors, and your wishes worth nothing PLAAN might go with latest tech/trends (gas turbine or Nuclear reactors) for Type -3 carriers

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## ChineseTiger1986

vi-va said:


> I am not sure 002 is using underpowered Soviet boilers, so far 002 is running as fast as 001, 30+ knot.
> As long as 002 power needs met, nothing wrong to use similar boiler of 001, so that the maintenance will be easier.
> 
> Not always best weapons& equipment be used, cost will be considered as well.
> 
> I am sure 003 will use something else than 002. But nuclear reactor will be a little bit too optimistic.



The Type 002 is just a 60,000 tonnes carrier with ski-jump, whereas the Type 003 is at least 50% heavier with the EMALS, AAG, and more upgraded dual band radars.

The Type 003 is a much larger and more powerful ship with much more intricate technologies.

The boilers of the Type 002 are simply unsuitable for the Type 003.

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## vi-va

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 002 is just a 60,000 tonnes carrier with ski-jump, whereas the Type 003 is at least 50% heavier with the EMALS, AAG, and more upgraded dual band radars.
> 
> The Type 003 is a much larger and more powerful ship with much more intricate technologies.
> 
> The boilers of the Type 002 is simply unsuitable for the Type 003.


My opinions were provided. We will see.


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## ChineseTiger1986

vi-va said:


> My opinions were provided. We will see.



No one believes that the Type 003 will be powered by the boilers of the Type 002, yet there is no any proof about the existence of a more powerful type of boiler.

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## White and Green with M/S

vi-va said:


> My opinions were provided. We will see.


You want old early to mid 20th century's technology into 21st century modern aircraft carriers of China???

Boilers were common when there were no gas turbine and nuclear reactors techs (before 60s) available for Naval ships when these technologies available for Naval ships they were relying less and less on boilers technology and discarded their older ship which had have boiler power plants

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## Deino

*Come on guys, calm down ... so far there are valid arguments given from both sides and I think we all should take our time and wait. Time will tell who's right and then - in any way - we can celebrate another great achievement of the China's naval modernisation. *

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## vi-va

White and Green with M/S said:


> You want old early to mid 20th century's technology into 21st century modern aircraft carriers of China???
> 
> Boilers were common when there were no gas turbine and nuclear reactors techs (before 60s) available for Naval ships when these technologies available for Naval ships they were relying less and less on boilers technology and discarded their older ship which had have boiler power plants


You have no clue.
nuclear reactor is a boiler as well, the difference is using U235 instead of heavy oil.
If 003 use boiler, the Steam Turbine technology will be developed, and further evolved. 004 Nuclear reactor will use similar steam turbine. So that 003 and 004 will share quite a lot of sub system.

Boiler is not outdated technology at all.


Deino said:


> *Come on guys, calm down ... so far there are valid arguments given from both sides and I think we all should take our time and wait. Time will tell who's right and then - in any way - we can celebrate another great achievement of the China's naval modernisation. *


Agree. Thanks.

Edit:
One more thing.
The need of China and US is different. US navy needs to cover Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Ocean. 





It takes 19 days in 29 knots, or 32 days in 17 knots from Japan to British.





China from Sanya to West Indian Ocean only 4500 Nautical mile，11 days in 17knots, or 6.5 days in 30 knots.

Kitty Hawk max speed 32 knots, cruise speed 20 knots. 

China 003 requirement is more similar to Kitty Hawk. Good enough to deter India and safe guard sea route.

While I guess 004 will replace the conventional boiler with nuclear reactor, keep using the same Steam Turbine, so the technologies developed in 003 will be continued in 004, less maintenance.


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## White and Green with M/S

vi-va said:


> You have no clue.
> nuclear reactor is a boiler as well, the difference is using U235 instead of heavy oil.
> If 003 use boiler, the Steam Turbine technology will be developed, and further evolved. 004 Nuclear reactor will use similar steam turbine. So that 003 and 004 will share quite a lot of sub system.


And which process is better for steam production nuclear reactors or Oil fired boilers ??and tell me does nuclear power subs have chimneys for dissipating excess heat you have no clue
Its called heat exchanger not boiler

And nuclear reactors is more compact than your old and obsolete boilers

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## ChineseTiger1986

vi-va said:


> You have no clue.
> nuclear reactor is a boiler as well, the difference is using U235 instead of heavy oil.
> If 003 use boiler, the Steam Turbine technology will be developed, and further evolved. 004 Nuclear reactor will use similar steam turbine. So that 003 and 004 will share quite a lot of sub system.
> 
> Boiler is not outdated technology at all.
> 
> Agree. Thanks.
> 
> Edit:
> One more thing.
> The need of China and US is different. US navy needs to cover Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Ocean.
> View attachment 696748
> 
> It takes 19 days in 29 knots, or 32 days in 17 knots from Japan to British.
> 
> View attachment 696749
> 
> China from Sanya to West Indian Ocean only 4500 Nautical mile，11 days in 17knots, or 6.5 days in 30 knots.
> 
> Kitty Hawk max speed 32 knots, cruise speed 20 knots.
> 
> China 003 requirement is more similar to Kitty Hawk. Good enough to deter India and safe guard sea route.
> 
> While I guess 004 will replace the conventional boiler with nuclear reactor, keep using the same Steam Turbine, so the technologies developed in 003 will be continued in 004, less maintenance.



The Kitty Hawk class carriers were all retired, and it never had the intricate technologies like the EMALS and AAG.

Also, the boilers of the Type 002 can't even provide enough power for the Kitty Hawk class.

So stop comparing the Kitty Hawk class with the Type 003, it is totally irrelevant.

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## vi-va

White and Green with M/S said:


> And which process is better for steam production nuclear reactors or Oil fired boilers ??and tell me does nuclear power subs have chimneys for dissipating excess heat you have no clue
> Its called heat exchanger not boiler
> 
> And nuclear reactors is more compact than your old and obsolete boilers


















__





Marine steam boilers and boiler accessories







steamesteem.com




*Sunrod marine steam boiler*











__





Marine steam boilers and boiler accessories







steamesteem.com


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## lcloo

I think 99% of us members are getting tire and boring on these to n from no ending argument. Please just accept different opinions exists, and since no one can give concrete proof from official/ semi-official source, why not just stop and wait for the revelation later.

And you guys can put down US$100 each for a bet and collect the money after proving correct. What say?

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## juj06750

White and Green with M/S said:


> And which process is better for steam production nuclear reactors or Oil fired boilers ??and tell me does nuclear power subs have chimneys for dissipating excess heat you have no clue
> Its called heat exchanger not boiler
> And nuclear reactors is more compact than your old and obsolete boilers


again, you MUST do;
first, STUDY before you argue
second, READ properly
third, RESPECT others
otherwise, please everyone leaves this pakistani kid


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## White and Green with M/S

juj06750 said:


> again, you MUST do;
> first, STUDY before you argue
> second, READ properly
> third, RESPECT others
> otherwise, please everyone leaves this pakistani kid


You first try these argu and was i talking to you we are discussing technical aspects and because you're troll its goes over the head for you and STFU


vi-va said:


> View attachment 696753
> 
> View attachment 696754
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marine steam boilers and boiler accessories
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> steamesteem.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Sunrod marine steam boiler*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 696756
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marine steam boilers and boiler accessories
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> steamesteem.com


Lol you're talking about ground based nuclear plants

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## White and Green with M/S

vi-va said:


> You have no clue.
> nuclear reactor is a boiler as well, the difference is using U235 instead of heavy oil.
> If 003 use boiler, the Steam Turbine technology will be developed, and further evolved. 004 Nuclear reactor will use similar steam turbine. So that 003 and 004 will share quite a lot of sub system.
> 
> Boiler is not outdated technology at all.
> 
> Agree. Thanks.
> 
> Edit:
> One more thing.
> The need of China and US is different. US navy needs to cover Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Ocean.
> View attachment 696748
> 
> It takes 19 days in 29 knots, or 32 days in 17 knots from Japan to British.
> 
> View attachment 696749
> 
> China from Sanya to West Indian Ocean only 4500 Nautical mile，11 days in 17knots, or 6.5 days in 30 knots.
> 
> Kitty Hawk max speed 32 knots, cruise speed 20 knots.
> 
> China 003 requirement is more similar to Kitty Hawk. Good enough to deter India and safe guard sea route.
> 
> While I guess 004 will replace the conventional boiler with nuclear reactor, keep using the same Steam Turbine, so the technologies developed in 003 will be continued in 004, less maintenance.


And Kitty hawk didn't had have EMALS/ Multiple AESAs and other state of the art electronics so its need more powerful propulsion system than OLD and OBSOLETE BOILERS, so how many boilers do you have in your Type-3 Carriers 4-5???, then it will takes lots of spaces of your up coming carrier

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## Deino

*Guys ... it is enough! I gave you a friendly reminder to calm down and from now on any additional comment without new evidence and even more any personnel insult will be rated as trolling.*

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## kungfugymnast

White and Green with M/S said:


> And Kitty hawk didn't had have EMALS/ Multiple AESAs and other state of the art electronics so its need more powerful propulsion system than OLD and OBSOLETE BOILERS, so how many boilers do you have in your Type-3 Carriers 4-5???, then it will takes lots of spaces of your up coming carrier



Type 003 development is still unknown other than the hulls on shipyard. If it's non-nuclear and running on boilers, it will have range disadvantage covering just neighboring sea/ocean not able to save allies from sanction/embargo especially in South America. If it's running on boilers, where does it get power for EMALS?


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Kitty Hawk class carriers were all retired, and it never had the intricate technologies like the EMALS and AAG.
> 
> Also, the boilers of the Type 002 can't even provide enough power for the Kitty Hawk class.
> 
> So stop comparing the Kitty Hawk class with the Type 003, it is totally irrelevant.



What's the latest news on Type 003? Based on everyone's reply here seems like no progress after I got banned for 2 months. Thought PLAN wanted it to be ready by year end or early next year? Guess it'll postpone


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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> Type 003 development is still unknown other than the hulls on shipyard. If it's non-nuclear and running on boilers, it will have range disadvantage covering just neighboring sea/ocean not able to save allies from sanction/embargo especially in South America. If it's running on boilers, where does it get power for EMALS?
> 
> 
> What's the latest news on Type 003? Based on everyone's reply here seems like no progress after I got banned for 2 months. Thought PLAN wanted it to be ready by year end or early next year? Guess it'll postpone




OMG!!! Who on earth claimed "PLAN wanted it to be ready by year end or early next year"??

No-one ... you really should have used your vacation from PDF for some homework.


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## ChineseTiger1986

kungfugymnast said:


> Type 003 development is still unknown other than the hulls on shipyard. If it's non-nuclear and running on boilers, it will have range disadvantage covering just neighboring sea/ocean not able to save allies from sanction/embargo especially in South America. If it's running on boilers, where does it get power for EMALS?
> 
> 
> What's the latest news on Type 003? Based on everyone's reply here seems like no progress after I got banned for 2 months. Thought PLAN wanted it to be ready by year end or early next year? Guess it'll postpone



The Type 003 is about to complete the installation of the nuclear reactors, and they don't want the detailed to be leaked.


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## kungfugymnast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 003 is about to complete the installation of the nuclear reactors, and they don't want the detailed to be leaked.



Thanks for the info, can't wait to see the ship being commission. By then PLAN will speed up the J-35 development apart from filling the deck with J-15B


Deino said:


> OMG!!! Who on earth claimed "PLAN wanted it to be ready by year end or early next year"??
> 
> No-one ... you really should have used your vacation from PDF for some homework.



Put you personal hatred aside. As a mod, you should stay neutral and post only facts and points related to topic rather than going personal. Who's giving you warning for rules violation?

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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> Thanks for the info, can't wait to see the ship being commission. By then PLAN will speed up the J-35 development apart from filling the deck with J-15B
> 
> 
> Put you personal hatred aside. As a mod, you should stay neutral and post only facts and points related to topic rather than going personal. Who's giving you warning for rules violation?




Then please explain where was it stated that the "PLAN wanted it to be ready by year end or early next year" or even more "how should this be done?" The Type 003 is such a huge and complex vessel, it was never possible to have it ready much sooner so that the "PLAN could have introduced it already by year end or early next year"??

So, just as you said with a minor modification:

you should stay neutral and *post only facts and points related to topic *rather than going off topic and into fan-boy's wet-dreams.

Again, that's not hate, it's common sense and logic against fan-boyish wishful thinking.


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## kungfugymnast

Deino said:


> Then please explain where was it stated that the "PLAN wanted it to be ready by year end or early next year" or even more "how should this be done?" The Type 003 is such a huge and complex vessel, it was never possible to have it ready much sooner so that the "PLAN could have introduced it already by year end or early next year"??
> 
> So, just as you said with a minor modification:
> 
> you should stay neutral and *post only facts and points related to topic *rather than going off topic and into fan-boy's wet-dreams.
> 
> Again, that's not hate, it's common sense and logic against fan-boyish wishful thinking.



The military news/articles in my country and neighboring countries especially amongst Spratlys claimant countries reported the news that China pushing hard on getting their Type 003 with EMALS ready as soon as possible before end of the year or early next year to counter rising US threat. 

What fanboy other than you're being too obsessed with China weapons but at the same time banning others being fanboy? Posting actual historical combat engagement and real war scenarios are solid facts that really happened, those aren't dream.


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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> The military news/articles in my country and neighboring countries especially amongst Spratlys claimant countries reported the news that China pushing hard on getting their Type 003 with EMALS ready as soon as possible before end of the year or early next year to counter rising US threat.
> 
> What fanboy other than you're being too obsessed with China weapons but at the same time banning others being fanboy? Posting actual historical combat engagement and real war scenarios are solid facts that really happened, those aren't dream.



Then these reports are wrong. 
And these stupid assumptions are based in what logic? No-one with any rationale thinking believed such reports. 
Just look at the already impressive pace of construction but to think 003 could be ready fir the PLAN by year's end or early 2021 is ridicolous. 

The only one who's insulting others is you. Take this as a warning.


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## kungfugymnast

Deino said:


> And these stupid assumptions See Bases in what logic? No-one with any rationale thinking believed such reports.
> Just look at the already impressive pace of construction but to think 003 could be ready fir the PLAN by year's end or early 2021 is ridicolous.
> 
> Andi the only one who's insulting others is you. Take this as a warning.



What stupid assumption? Are you saying all the military news in countries around South China Sea stupid when they all have close ties to China? This is what the news said. You can't stick to debate and facts, trying to ban anyone posting news from military news reported in their countries then I too should report you for abusing your authority.

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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> What stupid assumption? Are you saying all the military news in countries around South China Sea stupid when they all have close ties to China? This is what the news said. You can't stick to debate and facts, trying to ban anyone posting news from military news reported in their countries then I too should report you for abusing your authority.




Yes. Any news reporting the PLAN would introduce the 003 carrier this year is stupid and cannot be taken seriously.

As such, name what reports are mentioning this so we can discuss this sources' credibility since I'm sure not all "military news in countries around South China Sea" report such a crap.

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## Figaro

kungfugymnast said:


> The military news/articles in my country and neighboring countries especially amongst Spratlys claimant countries reported the news that China pushing hard on getting their Type 003 with EMALS ready as soon as possible before end of the year or early next year to counter rising US threat.
> 
> What fanboy other than you're being too obsessed with China weapons but at the same time banning others being fanboy? Posting actual historical combat engagement and real war scenarios are solid facts that really happened, those aren't dream.


Maybe you should read up on more reputable news then. The SCS war scenarios is frankly ridiculous, even in 2020. I have heard of the US and China "preparing" to go to war just about every year now in the last 5 years. I doubt either the US or China will make serious preparations to go to war with each other (e.g. speeding up 003 construction/sea trials) for such an implausible event. They have already been constructing at a very fast pace and anything faster may degrade the vessel and its crew.


kungfugymnast said:


> What stupid assumption? Are you saying all the military news in countries around South China Sea stupid when they all have close ties to China? This is what the news said. You can't stick to debate and facts, trying to ban anyone posting news from military news reported in their countries then I too should report you for abusing your authority.


I think by the term "stupid assumptions", Deino means that your ideas are so outlandish that they are very hard to take seriously. And you do have a tendency to spew these ideas and derail threads .... IIRC, the last time you were here, you were saying how the PLAN was going to decommission the Liaoning and Shandong in a couple years time once the 003 class became operational.

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## kungfugymnast

Figaro said:


> Maybe you should read up on more reputable news then. The SCS war scenarios is frankly ridiculous, even in 2020. I have heard of the US and China "preparing" to go to war just about every year now in the last 5 years. I doubt either the US or China will make serious preparations to go to war with each other (e.g. speeding up 003 construction/sea trials) for such an implausible event. They have already been constructing at a very fast pace and anything faster may degrade the vessel and its crew.
> 
> I think by the term "stupid assumptions", Deino means that your ideas are so outlandish that they are very hard to take seriously. And you do have a tendency to spew these ideas and derail threads .... IIRC, the last time you were here, you were saying how the PLAN was going to decommission the Liaoning and Shandong in a couple years time once the 003 class became operational.



Based on your questions, if I answered it will sure goes deeper into real political and military. Do I get last 3rd warning for replying this them get banned by Deino? I have class now, you let me know, I'll reply later. J-15B and Type 003 are somewhat related in most topics, will he banned because if my explanation touches both since they are on top of each other


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## White and Green with M/S

kungfugymnast said:


> Based on your questions, if I answered it will sure goes deeper into real political and military. Do I get last 3rd warning for replying this them get banned by Deino? I have class now, you let me know, I'll reply later. J-15B and Type 003 are somewhat related in most topics, will he banned because if my explanation touches both since they are on top of each other


stop your stupid assumptions/speculations, its takes years to test and induct naval ships and get rid of any glitches on designs, look at the Type-55 project you can get your answers, early 2021 its impossible for Type-3 to be induct in early 2021

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## CAPRICORN-88

_In approx. one year from today, we will have our answer whether they will be installing the RO101 heavy duty gas turbines or nuclear powerplants into the CV-03 series Aircraft Carrier. 

This is China first Flat Top carrier built from scratch with EMALS means it will faced a myriad of problems and required a lot of electrical energy is already providing a clue to its direction in its design and construction. 
So as a China Watcher and as usual I will patiently wait and soon we will have our answer. 
Anyway it is very interesting to read all the opinions, arguments and speculations as they are presented but so far nothing is official. 
 _

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## Deino

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _In approx. one year from today, we will have our answer whether they will be installing the RO101 heavy duty gas turbines or nuclear powerplants into the CV-03 series Aircraft Carrier.
> 
> This is China first Flat Top carrier built from scratch with EMALS means it will faced a myriad of problems and required a lot of electrical energy is already providing a clue to its direction in its design and construction.
> So as a China Watcher and as usual I will patiently wait and soon we will have our answer.
> Anyway it is very interesting to read all the opinions, arguments and speculations as they are presented but so far nothing is official.
> _




I fully agree with you, but a speculative service entry for already this or early next year as suggested by our special gymnast can be excluded simply since it is impossible. As such to "_it is very interesting to read all the opinions, arguments and speculations as they are presented" _but only as long as they are reasonable.


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## kungfugymnast

White and Green with M/S said:


> stop your stupid assumptions/speculations, its takes years to test and induct naval ships and get rid of any glitches on designs, look at the Type-55 project you can get your answers, early 2021 its impossible for Type-3 to be induct in early 2021



What assumption? They were news from military articles dated several months back when I was banned. Check what did I post on my first post after ban lifted. I only mentioned the result didn't go as per what the spokesperson mentioned in the military news article where the PLAN hope for Type 003 to be ready by year end or early next year. Don't read what Deino twisted and refer my original post to comment instead.


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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> What assumption? They were news from military articles dated several months back when I was banned. Check what did I post on my first post after ban lifted. I only mentioned the result didn't go as per what the spokesperson mentioned in the military news article where the PLAN hope for Type 003 to be ready by year end or early next year. Don't read what Deino twisted and refer my original post to comment instead.



Assumptions, since they are not official, written by anyone now-one knows and based on plain unrealistic ideas, That's an assumption.

Therefore again ... tell us WHAT report states this so that we can discuss this source's reliability. What you call "news from military articles dated several months back" could be anything from SCMP, over CMC and PLA reports to - and this is what most of us assume - plain stupid BS reports written by any layman reporter in that area not based on facts but to hype the fear for a

I think you really need to learn that not everything you read is true and you must check in order to judge ... only telling "they said the PLAN will introduce the 003 by year's end" does not make it true.

As such, the only one with a twisted logic is you and stop with these constant insults, otherwise you are out again.


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## english_man

Please can the person here writing posts about the 003 Carrier being completed by the end of year........PLEASE stop writing ridiculous comments. Just because someone saw an idiotic comment written elsewhere, doesn't mean they should forward this idiotic information. People need to sit down and actually think about what they write down, before posting.
The 003 Carrier is a huge vessel, and very complex............it takes years to construct an aircraft carrier, and then eventually pass it onto the fleet. In fact the 003 Carrier will still be a long way off completion, even at this time next year. Remember these are not plastic kits that you can assemble in a few hours! Please engage brain before posting. Thanks

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## White and Green with M/S

kungfugymnast said:


> What assumption? They were news from military articles dated several months back when I was banned. Check what did I post on my first post after ban lifted. I only mentioned the result didn't go as per what the spokesperson mentioned in the military news article where the PLAN hope for Type 003 to be ready by year end or early next year. Don't read what Deino twisted and refer my original post to comment instead.


Bro i don't what what military news article you talking about but i know one thing currently Type-003 is under construction than how can it be possible that it will be inducted early next year, if that in any military article then writer knows nothing about military development , especially naval development process and procedures, and PLAAN is not stupid to induct Type-003 without any testing after launching which takes years to complete, in my opinion Type-003 is 2/2.5 year away to being induct in PLAAN

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## kungfugymnast

White and Green with M/S said:


> Bro i don't what what military news article you talking about but i know one thing currently Type-003 is under construction than how can it be possible that it will be inducted early next year, if that in any military article then writer knows nothing about military development , especially naval development process and procedures, and PLAAN is not stupid to induct Type-003 without any testing after launching which takes years to complete, in my opinion Type-003 is 2/2.5 year away to being induct in PLAAN



Not the writer but the spokesperson who came up with the statement. Based on the latest photo on type003 development, all I can say is that spokesperson statement not going to realize. 2 to 2.5 years away to go is really some time to go. Can KJ600 take off from Type 002 without catapult launch? If no, the longer Type 003 development take, the longer these navalized aircrafts would take to enter active service.


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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> Not the writer but the spokesperson who came up with the statement. Based on the latest photo on type003 development, all I can say is that spokesperson statement not going to realize. 2 to 2.5 years away to go is really some time to go.




Again, please enlighten us "which spokesman"? Surely not from the CMC, the PLA or the PLAN.
No credible and informed Chinese spokesman report that the 003 might be ready already this year or early next year.

Again, just use common logic: The vessel is much larger and complex than 002 and even if surely lot has been learned and they are building it a slightly different way to 002, they can not do magic.

003 by all reliable accounts has now reached a status of the 002 carrier about 18 months before launch. that was followed by about one years of sea trails and one can be sure that for this vessel this phase won't be shorter. As such this adds up to at least 2 1/2 years before service entry ... not next year and never ever this yera.

As such again, ask yourself about the credibility of "your sources"?!





> Can KJ500 take off from Type 002 without catapult launch? If no, the longer Type 003 development take, the longer these navalized aircrafts would take to enter active service.



And concerning this question... no it cannot but does this matter in any way? The KJ-500 anyway was never meant to be launched off a carrier - maybe you mixed it with the KJ-600? - and even then it does not matter. These "navalized aircrafts WILL SURELY take LONGER to enter active service" alone based on the facts that the KJ-600's prototype had just its maiden flight and the J-35 hasn't been even unveiled yet.

In consequence within the next five to six years none of the new "navalized aircrafts would ... enter active service" since they need to fly first, get tested and certified. And during these years, the 001 & 002 will prepare and train pilots and naval crews so that only then after that all is done the 003 can truly enter PLAN service.

So there's nothing wrong and IMO everything's fine progressing exactly as scheduled and anyone who thought or even thinks the 003 was to enter service in 2020/21 should question his sources or check his own logic.

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## kungfugymnast

Deino said:


> Again, please enlighten us "which spokesman"? Surely not from the CMC, the PLA or the PLAN.
> No credible and informed Chinese spokesman report that the 003 might be ready already this year or early next year.
> 
> Again, just use common logic: The vessel is much larger and complex than 002 and even if surely lot has been learned and they are building it a slightly different way to 002, they can not do magic.
> 
> 003 by all reliable accounts has now reached a status of the 002 carrier about 18 months before launch. that was followed by about one years of sea trails and one can be sure that for this vessel this phase won't be shorter. As such this adds up to at least 2 1/2 years before service entry ... not next year and never ever this yera.
> 
> As such again, ask yourself about the credibility of "your sources"?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And concerning this question... no it cannot but does this matter in any way? The KJ-500 anyway was never meant to be launched off a carrier - maybe you mixed it with the KJ-600? - and even then it does not matter. These "navalized aircrafts WILL SURELY take LONGER to enter active service" alone based on the facts that the KJ-600's prototype had just its maiden flight and the J-35 hasn't been even unveiled yet.
> 
> In consequence within the next five to six years none of the new "navalized aircrafts would ... enter active service" since they need to fly first, get tested and certified. And during these years, the 001 & 002 will prepare and train pilots and naval crews so that only then after that all is done the 003 can truly enter PLAN service.
> 
> So there's nothing wrong and IMO everything's fine progressing exactly as scheduled and anyone who thought or even thinks the 003 was to enter service in 2020/21 should question his sources or check his own logic.



I read articles but don't remember the spokesperson name. Every time China military officers or manufacturer engineers released public info, I don't really memorize names but skipped straight to contents of latest news. Like recent numbers of articles said China must reverse engineer all technology that local manufacturers still rely on foreign suppliers fast before US blacklist preventing all foreign companies (including Japan, South Korea, Taiwan companies) from dealing with China or risk lawsuit equivalent to sanction violation subject to fine over hundreds of millions US$. I don't recall who was the person who mentioned it in the news. 

I was referring to KJ600, you replied before I could finish editing previous post. 5 years is even longer than 2-2.5. At few times China was in close encounter with US intrusion, constant threat on naval exercise against China and military bickering. Due to these threat and US instigation on neighboring countries to hate/boycott/increase military standoff making China top commanders push for faster development of its carrier fleet. Only time would tell how soon the Type 003 along with new generation navalized aircraft would enter active service.


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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> ....
> 
> I was referring to KJ600, you replied before I could finish editing previous post. 5 years is even longer than 2-2.5. At few times China was in close encounter with US intrusion, constant threat on naval exercise against China and military bickering. Due to these threat and US instigation on neighboring countries to hate/boycott/increase military standoff making China top commanders push for faster development of its carrier fleet. Only time would tell how soon the Type 003 along with new generation navalized aircraft would enter active service.




PLEASE read again: Yes, "5 years is even longer than 2-2.5" but the estimated service entry date in 2.5 years does not mean it is combat ready and until this happens the J-15B will be sufficient.

As such regardless the arguments you mentioned, there is NO chance this carrier could be ready by late-2020/early-2021.


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## White and Green with M/S

kungfugymnast said:


> Not the writer but the spokesperson who came up with the statement. Based on the latest photo on type003 development, all I can say is that spokesperson statement not going to realize. 2 to 2.5 years away to go is really some time to go. Can KJ600 take off from Type 002 without catapult launch? If no, the longer Type 003 development take, the longer these navalized aircrafts would take to enter active service.


are you looking at the construction condition of Type-003 look above the pics of Type-003 is it ready for installing island structure/sensors/weapons/ propulsion system etc etc, its impossible for any country of the world to install such things in such things in such a short period of time (within few months)

And PLAAN is not stupid they will Induct type-003 without any tests and evaluate, you have no logic and common sense dude

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## Daniel808

Update
It's already one piece right now

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## kungfugymnast

Deino said:


> PLEASE read again: Yes, "5 years is even longer than 2-2.5" but the estimated service entry date in 2.5 years does not mean it is combat ready and until this happens the J-15B will be sufficient.
> 
> As such regardless the arguments you mentioned, there is NO chance this carrier could be ready by late-2020/early-2021.



I have already mentioned the spokesperson's goal not going to realize looking at the latest photo on Type 003 development. What argument are you referring to?


White and Green with M/S said:


> are you looking at the construction condition of Type-003 look above the pics of Type-003 is it ready for installing island structure/sensors/weapons/ propulsion system etc etc, its impossible for any country of the world to install such things in such things in such a short period of time (within few months)
> 
> And PLAAN is not stupid they will Induct type-003 without any tests and evaluate, you have no logic and common sense dude



You and Deino have problem understanding English?


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## White and Green with M/S

kungfugymnast said:


> You and Deino have problem understanding English?


Yes But you don't have any sense and logic Mr

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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> I have already mentioned the spokesperson's goal not going to realize looking at the latest photo on Type 003 development. What argument are you referring to?
> 
> 
> You and Deino have problem understanding English?



Maybe indeed I have an issue, but maybe it is also due to you ... in fact what do you mean with "the spokesperson's goal not going to realize looking at the latest photo on Type 003 development."??

- Do you mean you agree with us but the spokesman you were referring to ignored to look at the latest photos, since otherwise he would note he's wrong?
- Do you mean we are wrong, since a spokesman is much more knowledgeable than we and regardless the latest images, he is correct?

By the way, what spokesmen you are referring too?


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## JSCh



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## Deino

JSCh said:


> View attachment 698795
> 
> View attachment 698796​




Looks indeed like the first module for the next level aka the hangar deck.

Here the first hangar module for the Type 002 and later "Shandong" in late October 2015 for comparison ... and it also included the deck.

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## lcloo

If JNCX shipyard moves at the same construction speed as Dalian shipyard's CV17, this ship should be launched around 4th quarter of 2022.

However, since CV17 is the first domestic built aircraft carrier, there should be improvement on shortening of construction time for 2nd domestic build AC with lessons learned from CV17's construction. Hope they can launch it on the first half year of 2022.

Side note: the lower half hull now looks like a huge battleship of WW2.

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## kungfugymnast

Deino said:


> Maybe indeed I have an issue, but maybe it is also due to you ... in fact what do you mean with "the spokesperson's goal not going to realize looking at the latest photo on Type 003 development."??
> 
> - Do you mean you agree with us but the spokesman you were referring to ignored to look at the latest photos, since otherwise he would note he's wrong?
> - Do you mean we are wrong, since a spokesman is much more knowledgeable than we and regardless the latest images, he is correct?
> 
> By the way, what spokesmen you are referring too?



I didn't say you are wrong nor disagree with you. Since you have English issue, I'll use point form. 

June or July 2020 - I read on newspaper and magazine military article that the PLAN or manufacturer spokesperson said they will complete the Type 003 carrier by year end or early next year to counter rising tension with US.

Dec 2020 - I read the comments here and saw recent development photo still the blocks of hulls. I said the spokesperson goal not going to happen since it's already year end. 

Verdict - spokesperson said that probably just wanted to bicker with US during height of tension. 

Based on experts, US politicians have phobia of being colonized if a rival country overtaken US in military technology strength and economy. For China, it is not about how long they can complete building a nuclear powered aircraft carrier but more on how much time left.


White and Green with M/S said:


> Yes But you don't have any sense and logic Mr



Refer my simplified English explanation. If you still don't get it, I will have to use translation to your primary language.

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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> I didn't say you are wrong nor disagree with you. Since you have English issue, I'll use point form.
> 
> June or July 2020 - I read on newspaper and magazine military article that the PLAN or manufacturer spokesperson said they will complete the Type 003 carrier by year end or early next year to counter rising tension with US.
> 
> Dec 2020 - I read the comments here and saw recent development photo still the blocks of hulls. I said the spokesperson goal not going to happen since it's already year end.
> 
> Verdict - spokesperson said that probably just wanted to bicker with US during height of tension.
> 
> Based on experts, US politicians have phobia of being colonized if a rival country overtaken US in military technology strength and economy. For China, it is not about how long they can complete building a nuclear powered aircraft carrier but more on how much time left.
> 
> 
> Refer my simplified English explanation. If you still don't get it, I will have to use translation to your primary language.




Thanks ... that indeed makes it clearer. I thought you would defend the point of view the carrier WILL be ready by year's end.

And that's in fact the reason why I still better rely on my own observation and trust a few reliable and credible posters and NOT what any official spokesman or other reporter - like Minnie Chan from the SCMP - claims: it is most often wrong, propaganda or reported that way for another reason.

Best and take care.

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## Figaro

kungfugymnast said:


> I didn't say you are wrong nor disagree with you. Since you have English issue, I'll use point form.
> 
> June or July 2020 - I read on newspaper and magazine military article that the PLAN or manufacturer spokesperson said they will complete the Type 003 carrier by year end or early next year to counter rising tension with US.
> 
> Dec 2020 - I read the comments here and saw recent development photo still the blocks of hulls. I said the spokesperson goal not going to happen since it's already year end.
> 
> Verdict - spokesperson said that probably just wanted to bicker with US during height of tension.
> 
> Based on experts, US politicians have phobia of being colonized if a rival country overtaken US in military technology strength and economy. For China, it is not about how long they can complete building a nuclear powered aircraft carrier but more on how much time left.
> 
> 
> Refer my simplified English explanation. If you still don't get it, I will have to use translation to your primary language.


I think you are talking about the launching of 003, which could very well happen next year. But that does not mean the 003 will be "complete" by then ... there is still fitting out and sea trials for a couple years before commissioning, which is the real definition of "complete."

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## White and Green with M/S

kungfugymnast said:


> I didn't say you are wrong nor disagree with you. Since you have English issue, I'll use point form.
> 
> June or July 2020 - I read on newspaper and magazine military article that the PLAN or manufacturer spokesperson said they will complete the Type 003 carrier by year end or early next year to counter rising tension with US.
> 
> Dec 2020 - I read the comments here and saw recent development photo still the blocks of hulls. I said the spokesperson goal not going to happen since it's already year end.
> 
> Verdict - spokesperson said that probably just wanted to bicker with US during height of tension.
> 
> Based on experts, US politicians have phobia of being colonized if a rival country overtaken US in military technology strength and economy. For China, it is not about how long they can complete building a nuclear powered aircraft carrier but more on how much time left.


ITS ABOUT LAUCNHING NOT COMPLETION AND COMMISOINING IN PLAAN, WE HAVE NO COMPREHENSION ISSUE BUT YOU HAVE UNDERSTANDING ISSUE


kungfugymnast said:


> I didn't say you are wrong nor disagree with you. Since you have English issue, I'll use point form.
> 
> June or July 2020 - I read on newspaper and magazine military article that the PLAN or manufacturer spokesperson said they will complete the Type 003 carrier by year end or early next year to counter rising tension with US.
> 
> Dec 2020 - I read the comments here and saw recent development photo still the blocks of hulls. I said the spokesperson goal not going to happen since it's already year end.
> 
> Verdict - spokesperson said that probably just wanted to bicker with US during height of tension.
> 
> Based on experts, US politicians have phobia of being colonized if a rival country overtaken US in military technology strength and economy. For China, it is not about how long they can complete building a nuclear powered aircraft carrier but more on how much time left.
> 
> 
> Refer my simplified English explanation. If you still don't get it, I will have to use translation to your primary language.


ITS NOT ABOUT COMMSIONING AND COMPLETION IN OF TYPE-003 IN PLAAN BUT ITS ABOUT LAUNCHING, AND AFTER THAT ITS TALKES COUPLE OF YEARS TO TEST AND THEN COMMISION BY PLAAN

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## Figaro

White and Green with M/S said:


> ITS ABOUT LAUCNHING NOT COMPLETION AND COMMISOINING IN PLAAN, WE HAVE NO COMPREHENSION ISSUE BUT YOU HAVE UNDERSTANDING ISSUE
> 
> ITS NOT ABOUT COMMSIONING AND COMPLETION IN OF TYPE-003 IN PLAAN BUT ITS ABOUT LAUNCHING, AND AFTER THAT ITS TALKES COUPLE OF YEARS TO TEST AND THEN COMMISION BY PLAAN


Please stop posting in all caps ... you are just trying to incite a flame war here.

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## kungfugymnast

Deino said:


> Thanks ... that indeed makes it clearer. I thought you would defend the point of view the carrier WILL be ready by year's end.
> 
> And that's in fact the reason why I still better rely on my own observation and trust a few reliable and credible posters and NOT what any official spokesman or other reporter - like Minnie Chan from the SCMP - claims: it is most often wrong, propaganda or reported that way for another reason.
> 
> Best and take care.



Right Deino, you too take care


Figaro said:


> I think you are talking about the launching of 003, which could very well happen next year. But that does not mean the 003 will be "complete" by then ... there is still fitting out and sea trials for a couple years before commissioning, which is the real definition of "complete."



That could be the point, articles usually said it in general repeating what spokesperson said. There sure are lots of testing and trials being conducted by then. J-15B, KJ-600, J-35 would have to queue up for trials and testing on Type 003.

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## waja2000

any possible PLAAF getting SU-57 for 003, since J-15 outdated for future combat (no stealth capability) facing F35, etc.. plus alot enthusiast said China like heavy and big fighter ...
su-57 also can be trainer for J-20/J-31


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## Figaro

waja2000 said:


> any possible PLAAF getting SU-57 for 003, since J-15 outdated for future combat (no stealth capability) facing F35, etc.. plus alot enthusiast said China like heavy and big fighter ...
> su-57 also can be trainer for J-20/J-31


No way ... Russia has neither the resources or the capability to operate a CBG. If you look at Russia's surface fleet, it is barely scraping by. Just search up images of the Admiral Kuznetsov carrier. If China really wanted or needed the Su-57, they can definitely just go up to Russia and purchase it with cash instead.


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## kungfugymnast

waja2000 said:


> any possible PLAAF getting SU-57 for 003, since J-15 outdated for future combat (no stealth capability) facing F35, etc.. plus alot enthusiast said China like heavy and big fighter ...
> su-57 also can be trainer for J-20/J-31



PLAAF is air force while Type 003, J-15 belong to navy PLAN. 

SU-57 is not designed for carrier landing and would require partial or total redesign to have low speed stability which can only be done by Russian so not possible. Su-57 is single seat stealth fighter so it can't be trainer. 

China PLAN is coming up with J-35 navalized stealth fighter so there is no need to buy Su-57. 

You better stick to carrier talk.


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## waja2000

kungfugymnast said:


> PLAAF is air force while Type 003, J-15 belong to navy PLAN.
> SU-57 is not designed for carrier landing and would require partial or total redesign to have low speed stability which can only be done by Russian so not possible. Su-57 is single seat stealth fighter so it can't be trainer.
> China PLAN is coming up with J-35 navalized stealth fighter so there is no need to buy Su-57.
> You better stick to carrier talk.


AC also can't run from Navy fighter, as long not deep talk to fighter will be fine, just talks related with AC, 
Su-57 maker said Su-57 can be carrier fighter if there is required by any navy. 003 to run Su-57 should be no issue. 
what i is means combat trainer , like internal Su-57 vs J-20/J-35 exercise . J-20/J-35 need high level fighter to test capability and improve.


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## Figaro

waja2000 said:


> AC also can't run from Navy fighter, as long not deep talk to fighter will be fine, just talks related with AC,
> Su-57 maker said Su-57 can be carrier fighter if there is required by any navy. 003 to run Su-57 should be no issue.
> what i is means combat trainer , like internal Su-57 vs J-20/J-35 exercise . J-20/J-35 need high level fighter to test capability and improve.


An Su-57 CATOBAR variant will be an extremely expensive and niche combat trainer ... SAC could easily make one for the J-35 that is not only a better trainer but also cheaper and more capable since the Su-57 is not designed for carrier ops.


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## Deino

waja2000 said:


> any possible PLAAF getting SU-57 for 003, since J-15 outdated for future combat (no stealth capability) facing F35, etc.. plus alot enthusiast said China like heavy and big fighter ...
> su-57 also can be trainer for J-20/J-31



No, plain and simple NO. And a lot of enthusiasts also say Pakistan might get the Liaoning one day or the J-20, but that does not make it real.



Figaro said:


> An Su-57 CATOBAR variant will be an extremely expensive and niche combat trainer ... SAC could easily make one for the J-35 that is not only a better trainer but also cheaper and more capable since the Su-57 is not designed for carrier ops.




A Su-57 trainer is in fact a pretty ridiculous idea.  
To convert a not yet proven design to be carrier-capable is already a tremendous issue and then you need to develop a trainer variant of this!?? Not sure, what this guy smoked, but he should stay away from this stuff.

And now back to the topic, I don't understand why always such most ridiculous and stupid ideas come from ... and here i better stop my sentence.

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## White and Green with M/S

kungfugymnast said:


> Right Deino, you too take care
> 
> 
> That could be the point, articles usually said it in general repeating what spokesperson said. There sure are lots of testing and trials being conducted by then. J-15B, KJ-600, J-35 would have to queue up for trials and testing on Type 003.


And these trials and testing need years to complete


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## kungfugymnast

waja2000 said:


> AC also can't run from Navy fighter, as long not deep talk to fighter will be fine, just talks related with AC,
> Su-57 maker said Su-57 can be carrier fighter if there is required by any navy. 003 to run Su-57 should be no issue.
> what i is means combat trainer , like internal Su-57 vs J-20/J-35 exercise . J-20/J-35 need high level fighter to test capability and improve.



US ATF requirements included for US Navy fighters, do you know why there is no navalized F-22 until now? The navalized F-22 with strengthened landing gear and arrestor hook could easily take off but the landing part is the main issue as the F-22 approaches too fast. if Sukhoi claimed SU-57 could operate from carrier, yes it could take off but landing it will be problem. 

Carrier based fighters need more swept forward less aerodynamic wings for low speed stability and maneuverability especially below 200kts and could still maneuver at 140kts stable glide down onto deck, and if landing unsuccessful, could still gain momentum to go full throttle and back into the air. This is why you see carrier based fighters are slower compared to land based fighters wth wings focus on lift.

Russians won't let you buy few fighters if your country has ability to reverse engineer and replicate their stealth SU-57. Look at Su-35, China has to buy numbers of them at higher price. The price of buying the minimum required Su-57 is enough for you to manufacture far more J-35.


White and Green with M/S said:


> And these trials and testing need years to complete



Ofcourse, this applies on production model too with modification and upgrade added later as trials and testing never stops.


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## White and Green with M/S

kungfugymnast said:


> Ofcourse, this applies on production model too with modification and upgrade added later as trials and testing never stops.


then why you're saying that Type-003 will induct by PLAAN early next year, and stop your stupid analysis on this and J-20 thread


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## Figaro

kungfugymnast said:


> Russians won't let you buy few fighters if your country has ability to reverse engineer and replicate their stealth SU-57.


I really don't know what China has to gain from reverse engineering the Su-57 ... its subsystems and overall shaping is inferior to that of the J-20. You can find numerous flaws in the Su-57 with regards to a VLO design. But if India acquires the Su-57 for whatever reason, I think it would be wise for China to purchase it for evaluation and training (e.g. OpFor "Blue Team") purposes.


White and Green with M/S said:


> then why you're saying that Type-003 will induct by PLAAN early next year, and stop your stupid analysis on this and J-20 thread


Can you please calm down. I really don't see any need for this type of insult ... you or I may disagree with analysis but deriding it as "stupid" is not conducive.


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## Deino

*And now back to the topic, which is the Type 003 carrier and not any random idea to buy a Russian jet*


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## kungfugymnast

White and Green with M/S said:


> then why you're saying that Type-003 will induct by PLAAN early next year, and stop your stupid analysis on this and J-20 thread



Seems like you're the only 1 left still don't understand simple English despite explanation simplified to very basic point form. Aren't you the stupid then? What is your primary language, I'll use google translate now. I stated clearly the spokesperson claim and goal not going to happen. Please change your avatar because you're not qualified to have J-20, change it to J-7 now.


Figaro said:


> I really don't know what China has to gain from reverse engineering the Su-57 ... its subsystems and overall shaping is inferior to that of the J-20. You can find numerous flaws in the Su-57 with regards to a VLO design. But if India acquires the Su-57 for whatever reason, I think it would be wise for China to purchase it for evaluation and training (e.g. OpFor "Blue Team") purposes.
> 
> Can you please calm down. I really don't see any need for this type of insult ... you or I may disagree with analysis but deriding it as "stupid" is not conducive.



There is none, nothing to reverse engineer. Just replying to waja2000 question. Back to topic, Type 003 will be nuclear powered and have EMALS? It won't be powered by boilers and have separate small nuclear reactor to generate power for EMALS? Just wanted to know


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## lcloo

So far two 003 hangar modules have been identified. One is on the waiting yard next to 003, another is located at the fabrication yard at the new harbour basin as depicted below.

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## Deino

Can't wait for clear images:

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## Daniel808

Deino said:


> Can't wait for clear images:
> 
> View attachment 700159



What's that mean? @Deino 🧐 327.6?


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## Deino

Daniel808 said:


> What's that mean? @Deino 🧐 327.6?




Sorry, Allegedly the waterline length has been calculated as 327.6m given the length of 180m for the Type 055 DDG.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Can't wait for clear images:
> 
> View attachment 700159



The waterline is similar to the Nimitz/Ford class, and the 328 meters is waterline + bulbous bow.

The Ford class is also around 328 meters including the bulbous bow.

And the recent pic shows that they are now installing the steam turbines.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> ...
> And the recent pic shows that they are now installing the steam turbines.
> View attachment 700259




Sorry, but could you please explain where and even more how you identify "installing the steam turbines" in this grainy dark image?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Sorry, but could you please explain where and even more how you identify "installing the steam turbines" in this grainy dark image?

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> View attachment 700264
> 
> 
> View attachment 700265




Wow 😲


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## kungfugymnast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The waterline is similar to the Nimitz/Ford class, and the 328 meters is waterline + bulbous bow.
> 
> The Ford class is also around 328 meters including the bulbous bow.
> 
> And the recent pic shows that they are now installing the steam turbines.
> 
> 
> View attachment 700259



I don't know much about aircraft carrier's engines. If these 2 are steam turbines, will it be nuclear powered or boiler steam powered?


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## vi-va

This one is FORD, right?


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## ChineseTiger1986

kungfugymnast said:


> I don't know much about aircraft carrier's engines. If these 2 are steam turbines, will it be nuclear powered or boiler steam powered?



The gas turbine option will be excluded, so either nuclear reactors + steam turbines or boilers + steam turbines.

Considering the size of the Type 003 with the EMALS and AAG, it will be nuclear rectors + steam turbines.


vi-va said:


> This one is FORD, right?
> View attachment 700362



Yep

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## kungfugymnast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The gas turbine option will be excluded, so either nuclear reactors + steam turbines or boilers + steam turbines.
> 
> Considering the size of the Type 003 with the EMALS and AAG, it will be nuclear rectors + steam turbines.
> 
> 
> Yep



Thanks for the clarification. Hope this gets nuclear powered.

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## Deino

003 carrier on 26. December (Image via @ 军戈飞扬 from Weibo)

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> 003 carrier on 26. December (Image via @ 军戈飞扬 from Weibo)
> 
> View attachment 701006


Too grainy lol

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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> Too grainy lol



The bulbous bow is not visible in those low resolution satellite pics, so it will be very hard to nail an accurate figure for the length.

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## lcloo

One thing is certain, the power propulsion installation is ongoing, internal fitting on other parts of the lower half hull are mostly done and sealed with deck plates.

Using CV17 as a reference, power propulsion installation will take a long time while other modules will keep on added. During the construction of CV17, a major module would be added every 3-4 weeks, so we should place our expectation on seeing new 003 modules on similar timeline, but since JNCX is using a different construction method, it would be interesting to see the variance in speed of new modules appearing.

I think there should be around 10 more large modules to be added, the hull will be largely completed before end of 2021, and thereafter it will be mostly internal fittings for 6 months or more which will agonize many fans who will be disappointed by the "lack of progress" before the first sea trial.

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## Han Patriot

kungfugymnast said:


> I don't know much about aircraft carrier's engines. If these 2 are steam turbines, will it be nuclear powered or boiler steam powered?


If its steam then nuke would be probable, China is quite good will ultra supercritical steam turbines, legacy of the coal generators.

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## GiantPanda

Figaro said:


> Too grainy lol




Too grainy to tell much -- except that it almost fills out a 350 meter section of the drydock. And that could be indicating a whole lot.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Han Patriot said:


> If its steam then nuke would be probable, China is quite good will ultra supercritical steam turbines, legacy of the coal generators.



With the propulsion being steam turbines, then it will definitely get powered by the nuclear reactors.

Since China's latest boiler technology can only power a 60,000 tonnes STOBAR carrier like the CV-17.


GiantPanda said:


> Too grainy to tell much -- except that it almost fills out a 350 meter section of the drydock. And that could be indicating a whole lot.



The section to build the Type 003 is around 355 meters, and the final size (flight deck) of the ship will be something like 335 meters.

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## kungfugymnast

Han Patriot said:


> If its steam then nuke would be probable, China is quite good will ultra supercritical steam turbines, legacy of the coal generators.



Thanks for the info, as long as it gets nuclear powered, things will be on track


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> With the propulsion being steam turbines, then it will definitely get powered by the nuclear reactors.
> 
> Since China's latest boiler technology can only power a 60,000 tonnes STOBAR carrier like the CV-17.
> 
> 
> The section to build the Type 003 is around 355 meters, and the final size (flight deck) of the ship will be something like 335 meters.



335 meters is acceptable, good enough to pass super carrier. How many fighters will be carried since PLAN fighters are larger than US super hornets and F-35C?


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## Deino

I know it hurts the eyes  ... and therefore again just for the sake of completeness the most recent image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier currently under construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard at Shanghai taken on 1 January 2021.

(Image via @军戈飞扬 from Weibo)


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## vi-va

Deino said:


> I know it hurts the eyes  ... and therefore again just for the sake of completeness the most recent image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier currently under construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard at Shanghai taken on 1 January 2021.
> 
> (Image via @军戈飞扬 from Weibo)
> 
> View attachment 702342


stealthy aircraft carrier, must be.

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## samsara

From Rick Joe @RickJoe_PLA on 2021.01.04:

_*大包00's art is always quality* (in this case an *educated guess* of 003), though sometimes the details aren't always spot on, e.g. both bow aircraft probably wouldn't be taking off simultaneously as depicted, and positioning of some markers etc.

But still 👌👌




_














__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345947080892633088

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## samsara

By the same artist, 大包00, this time the cool animated CGI at his Weibo:

003型航空母舰战斗编队，sketchup漫游动画，#军事分享官##中外舰闻# 大包00的微博视频

_003 aircraft carrier battle formation, SketchUp roaming animation_






微博


随时随地发现新鲜事！微博带你欣赏世界上每一个精彩瞬间，了解每一个幕后故事。分享你想表达的，让全世界都能听到你的心声！




m.weibo.cn

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## LKJ86



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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 704160











rev#1

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1349367998524518410

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## LKJ86

Via @卫星图像发烧员 from Weibo

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 706598
> 
> Via @卫星图像发烧员 from Weibo


Poor me, I look at the pic yet can't extract any meaningful info from there 😅 let alone the even blurrier one posted by Deino immediately above it. Any sharper eyes to interpret it?


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## bshifter



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## Deino

bshifter said:


> View attachment 706668




How should be be related to the Type 003 aircraft carrier? ... wrong thread?


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## lcloo

Cropped and enlarged of latest photo.

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> Cropped and enlarged of latest photo.
> View attachment 706718




Now it looks indeed to have the first hangar/deck level module fitted!?

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## vi-va

Deino said:


> How should be be related to the Type 003 aircraft carrier? ... wrong thread?


correct thread I suppose. I think it's 003 model under the cover.

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## Deino

vi-va said:


> correct thread I suppose. I think it's 003 model under the cover.




Indeed ... 😲 Sorry for my post,

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## Polestar 2

Is the carrier confirmed to be nuclear or steam turbine?


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## samsara

Polestar 2 said:


> Is the carrier confirmed to be nuclear or steam turbine?


why don't you read several pages back (about 5 pages or so) to find out?

at this point of time, no one can be 100% sure though it tilts to the latter. Next several months the world may learn.

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## LKJ86

Via @小铁君sss from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 706833
> 
> Via @小铁君sss from Weibo




Oh well ... my eyes!

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## ChineseTiger1986



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## Polestar 2

samsara said:


> why don't you read several pages back (about 5 pages or so) to find out?
> 
> at this point of time, no one can be 100% sure though it tilts to the latter. Next several months the world may learn.


I did read back but a lot of conflicting answer of steam or nuclear.


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## JSCh



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## Deino

Another and severely pixelated photo of the Type 003 aircraft carrier and the new module ... on the left seems to be a 055 DDG. (Image via Haot / SDF)


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## samsara

Deino said:


> Another and severely pixelated photo of the Type 003 aircraft carrier and the new module ... on the left seems to be a 055 DDG. (Image via Haot / SDF)
> 
> View attachment 707044


_*And here's the narrative posted along this pic by the poster, Haot /SDF:*_

"Another processed image from a source. This is a much clearer image taken around last weekend when the first upper hanger module was just added to the hull. The hanger area is about three-stories high and there is a slight tilt on two sides of this big module. The deck structure also comes with this structure, so I guess things will be going rather quickly from now on.
The two giant engine cells are still empty I believe, perhaps they are building it the same way the Type002 and Type075 were being constructed, which was leaving holes on the deck as ships are being built and bring in the engines and turbines later."

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## LKJ86

Via @兵工科技 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @卫星图像发烧员 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7195988996






Via https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7196061443?pn=1

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## JSCh

*China’s 3rd aircraft carrier expected to launch in 2021: reports*
By Liu XuanzunPublished: Jan 17, 2021 09:55 PM




What seems to be an aircraft carrier, covered by a red blanket, is seen in a report by China Central Television on Tuesday. Photo: Screenshot from China Central Television

China's third aircraft carrier, expected to be very different from the previous two with much larger displacement and featuring electromagnetic catapults, could be launched in 2021 and enter naval service around 2025, media reports predicted based on recent photos of the ship's construction site.

According to latest, openly available photos, blocks of the Type 003 aircraft carrier are being assembled in Shanghai and the general outline of the warship is already identifiable, Ordnance Industry Science Technology, a Chinese defense industry magazine, said in a report published in its WeChat account on Saturday.

After all the blocks are put together, the upper structures will be installed, the report said, noting that since the blocks are built in advance, the assembly and the outfitting work will take much less time compared with China's second aircraft carrier.

The current status indicates that the Type 003 could be only a few months away from its launch before the end of 2021, the magazine predicted.

After this the carrier will undertake outfitting work, be installed with equipment including radar and sensor devices, conduct tests and embark on sea trials, which could take about two years, meaning the warship could join naval service in 2024 or 2025, the report said.

Chinese state broadcaster China Central Television (CCTV) also expects the country's third aircraft carrier to make its public debut in 2021.

In a report on Tuesday, CCTV showed what seems to be an aircraft carrier covered by a red blanket in computer-generated imagery, with a caption saying "We expect in 2021."

Song Zhongping, a Chinese military expert and TV commentator, told the Global Times on Sunday that the construction of the blocks are wrapped up and all that is left is the completion of assembly in the dock.

"2021 is a year full of expectations, including the Type 003 aircraft carrier and also the H-20 bomber. It is time for our technological development to bear fruit," Song said.

Citing measurements based on the photos, Ordnance Industry Science Technology said that the Type 003 is larger than China's second aircraft carrier, the _Shandong_, and boasts a similar size to the US' Kitty Hawk-class, displacing more than 80,000 tons. Some other foreign reports predicted an even larger displacement of 100,000 tons.

The new carrier is expected to be equipped with electromagnetic catapults to launch aircraft, replacing the ski jump method used on current Chinese carriers, the magazine said.

The Chinese military has yet to announce any details of its the third aircraft carrier.

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 707779
> View attachment 707780
> 
> Via https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7195988996
> 
> 
> View attachment 707782
> 
> Via https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7196061443?pn=1


To quote 逆襲 @horobeyo (1/18):

机库甲板下方还有一层，船体结构水线上方两层，这样结构水线以上到飞行甲板共有7层。

_There is also a layer below the hangar deck and two layers above the waterline of the hull structure, so there are *seven layers above the waterline of the structure to the flight deck (the top surface)*._

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## Deino

samsara said:


> To quote 逆襲 @horobeyo (1/18):
> 
> 机库甲板下方还有一层，船体结构水线上方两层，这样结构水线以上到飞行甲板共有7层。
> 
> _There is also a layer below the hangar deck and two layers above the waterline of the hull structure, so there are *seven layers above the waterline of the structure to the flight deck (the top surface)*._








Something like this?


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## Deino

Well ... slowly the images of the latest progress on the Type 003 aircraft carrier's construction are getting better! 

(via VESSEL/SDF)

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## Deino

😉

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## samsara

From 逆襲 @horobeyo on 2021.01.18:

干坞内段墙壁到挡板顶端内侧长度为355米（黄线跟影子平行），红线贯穿003首尾，得003船体长303米。

The length from the inner wall of the dry dock to the inner side of the top of the baffle is 355 meters (the yellow line is parallel to the shadow), and the red line runs through the head and tail of 003, so the 003 hull is 303 meters long.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1351137017086803973
By the OP:

同方法测得下边055长度177.8=178米，跟179米的狗度地图、狗哥地图的测量结果几乎一致。

The length of the lower 055 measured by the same method is 177.8 = 178 meters, which is almost consistent with the measurement results of the 179 meter by Baidu Map (!?) （狗度地图） and Google Map （狗哥地图）.

* * * * *

003进度跟002在2015年12月19日的进度差不多，不过003已经安装了球鼻艏跟水线尖头。 机库3层甲板高，机库地板跟此前完成的船体之间还有一层，这层同时也可以为动力舱封顶。 两者安装机库的方式类似，先在前后两段动力舱之间安装机库并封顶，然后侧壁向两头扩展，呈一个H形。动力舱开口大半年都不会封上

The progress of 003 is similar to that of 002 on December 19, 2015, but 003 has installed bulbous bow and waterline point.
The hangar is three decks high, and there is another layer between the hangar floor and the previously completed hull, which can also be used for capping the power cabin.
The two hangars are installed in a similar way. First, the hangar is installed and capped between the front and rear power cabins, and then the sidewall extends to both ends in an H-shape. The opening of the power cabin will not be closed for more than half a year







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1351105949617057799

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## CIA Mole

when to expect the deck level modules

launch 2021?


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## Deino

CIA Mole said:


> launch 2021?



IMO unlikely ... the vessel is now at a stage comparable to the 002 in late 2015 (October/November), so about 16-18 months before 002 was launched. As such - and only assuming a similar speed of construction - this would correspond to mid-2022.


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## ChineseTiger1986

If the Type 055 is 180 meters (official figure), then the Type 003 is around 312 meters with the bulbous.

Someone has already predicted it back in September 2020, and the displacement is around 92,000 tonnes.

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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> If the Type 055 is 180 meters (official figure), then the Type 003 is around 312 meters with the bulbous.
> 
> Someone has already predicted it back in September 2020, and the displacement is around 92,000 tonnes.


With all these pictures, still saying it's nuclear and nimitz size lmao. I wonder what will you say the day 003 lauches. You can keep on your stubborn ideas now. Cuz you won't be wearing it till the day it lauches.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Niko Zhang said:


> With all these pictures, still saying it's nuclear and nimitz size lmao. I wonder what will you say the day 003 lauches. You can keep on your stubborn ideas now. Cuz you won't be wearing it till the day it lauches.



The waterline width is over 41 meters, and we also have to look at the draft of the ship.

I have also to remind you that the QE class is only 280 meters, and it is 25 meters shorter than Liaoning, and yet it is still heavier.

The CVN-68 practically has the same length as the Ford class, and it is still more than 10,000 tonnes lighter.

So the length is not everything.

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## Deino

😉

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## samsara

From dafeng cao @dafengcao on 2021.01.18:

*Type 055 destroyer & Type 003 CV *







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1351187451155521538

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## The Ronin

According to the local media reports and predicts based on recent photos, China’s third aircraft carrier is expected to be launched in 2021. They Type 003 carrier, which will be more capable from the previous two with much larger displacement and featuring electromagnetic catapults will enter service for PLA Navy in 2025.

The openly available photos, blocks of the Type 003 aircraft carrier are being assembled in Shanghai and the general outline of the warship is already identifiable, Ordnance Industry Science Technology, a Chinese defense industry magazine, said in a report published in its WeChat account on Saturday.

After all the blocks are put together, the upper structures will be installed, the report said, noting that since the blocks are built in advance, the assembly and the outfitting work will take much less time compared with China’s second aircraft carrier.

The current status indicates that the Type 003 could be only a few months away from its launch before the end of 2021, the magazine predicted.

After this the carrier will undertake outfitting work, be installed with equipment including radar and sensor devices, conduct tests and embark on sea trials, which could take about two years, meaning the warship could join naval service in 2024 or 2025, the report said.

Chinese state broadcaster China Central Television (CCTV) also expects the country’s third aircraft carrier to make its public debut in 2021. In a report on Tuesday, CCTV showed what seems to be an aircraft carrier covered by a red blanket in computer-generated imagery, with a caption saying “We expect in 2021.”

Citing measurements based on the photos, Ordnance Industry Science Technology said that the Type 003 is larger than China’s second aircraft carrier, the Shandong, and boasts a similar size to the US’ Kitty Hawk-class, displacing more than 80,000 tons. Some other foreign reports predicted an even larger displacement of 100,000 tons.









China expects to launch its third aircraft carrier this year - Naval Post


According to the local media reports and predicts based on recent photos, China's third aircraft carrier is expected to be launched in 2021. They Type 003




navalnews.net

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## waja2000

i guest launch at 1st quarter 2021

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## Deino

waja2000 said:


> i guest launch at *1st quarter 2021*




Come on, why again claiming such unrealistic stuff ... that's plain impossible as already discussed so often!  

The 003 carrier has nor a status of the 002 about 16-18 months before launch. So even if progress might be faster due to a different method of construction, the 003 ship is anyway a much larger and more complex project.

So please explain how shall they finish a larger and more complex vessel within now less than 3 months (in fact by your calculation 71 days!) for what they needed with a smaller and less complex carrier 16-18 months!?


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## lcloo

According to 逆袭 horobeyo, looks like the upper modules (hangar walls) has been extended midship as indicated in attached photo








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1351794685375746049

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> According to 逆袭 horobeyo, looks like the upper modules (hangar walls) has been extended midship as indicated in attached photo
> 
> View attachment 708566
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1351794685375746049




Hmm?!! 🤔

Actually I think there is still only one hangar/flightdeck module since these two huge holes in the lower section are still clearly visible. Or do I miss a detail?


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## samsara

From Rebecca Rambar @RebeccaRambar on 2021.01.20:

_China: The Type 003 aircraft carrier currently under construction in Shanghai is expected to launch in 2021 & enter naval service around 2025._

_The Type 004 with nuclear propulsion & electromagnetic ramp would have been designed, its construction should begin soon._



https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1689292437583136196





















__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1351615622183071753

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## ChineseTiger1986

Now the main engine rooms of the Type 003 are still empty, but we will soon figure out within 2 months whether it will be fit with two nuclear reactors or eight boilers.

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## Deino

New @JanesINTEL 

"satellite imagery notes the upper hull for China's new Type 003 aircraft carrier (with catapults for larger take-off weight) is being installed, suggesting a launch date in the first half of2 022."

https://customer.janes.com/portal/A...anes.com/DefenceWeekly/Display/FG_3879909-JDW 

via

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354395026382594048

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## samsara

From 逆襲 @horobeyo on 2021.01.27~28:

1月17日的003
来自Maxar公司的卫星图像
可见后端动力舱的两台蒸汽轮机

燃油锅炉+蒸汽轮机，100%常规动力
俺不是营销号，观点对立的流量对俺来说没有意义，无法变现，所以俺就直说了，微博那些恰流量的金V倒是可以丢张图，然后一直打哈哈糊弄过去，任由评论区乌烟瘴气。
反正爱信信，不信拉倒，也就剩半年左右时间。

左图17日，右图不晚于18日。
两种可能：
1，白点是蒸汽轮机底座，左图晚于右图。
2，左图后段动力舱内不是蒸汽轮机，而是类似于脚手架工棚之类的东西，安装完后，成为右图的状态。
从两侧舱室分段安装情况来看，1的可能性更大。即白点是蒸汽轮机底座，锅炉另有位置。

003 on January 17
Satellite images from Maxar
It can be seen that there are two steam turbines in the rear power cabin

Oil-fired boiler + steam turbine, 100% conventional power.
I’m not a marketing account. The traffic with opposing views is meaningless to me and cannot be realized. So I just said that the golden V of Weibo with the same traffic can lose a picture, and then keep playing haha and fooling around, leaving the comment area in a mess.
In any case, it will take about half a year if you don't believe it and need further proof.






The picture on the left is on the 17th, and the picture on the right is no later than the 18th.

Two possibilities:

1) The white spot is the base of the steam turbine. The figure on the left is later than that on the right, OR

2) The rear power cabin in the left picture is not a steam turbine, but something similar to a scaffold shed. After installation, it becomes the state shown in the right picture.

Seen from the installation of compartment segments on both sides, 1) is more likely. That is, the white spot is the base of the steam turbine, and the boiler has another location.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354457861426831362


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354670349724471296
陆上试车锅炉房是啥玩意你应该知道吧

You should know what the boiler room is for land test run










其实用啥动力去年7月这份招标公告出来就“该”清楚了，只不过尺寸数据直到去年8月才有航拍图可以推算，在那之前一直都还心存幻想。很显然，用来测试的数据跟苏联KVG增压锅炉基本符合，跟温度只有不到300度的美国舰用压水堆完全不是一回事。你可以信贴吧的那些个所谓“证据”，但不用试图说服俺。

In fact, it should have been clear when the tender announcement came out in July last year, but the size data could not be calculated until August last year by aerial photograph. Before that, I still had some illusions. Obviously, the data used for the test were similar to Soviet KVG pressurized boilers, and completely different from American pressurized water reactors with temperatures of less than 300 ℃. You can post the "evidence", but don't try to convince me.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354462954549243910

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> From 逆襲 @horobeyo on 2021.01.27~28:
> 
> 1月17日的003
> 来自Maxar公司的卫星图像
> 可见后端动力舱的两台蒸汽轮机
> 
> 燃油锅炉+蒸汽轮机，100%常规动力
> 俺不是营销号，观点对立的流量对俺来说没有意义，无法变现，所以俺就直说了，微博那些恰流量的金V倒是可以丢张图，然后一直打哈哈糊弄过去，任由评论区乌烟瘴气。
> 反正爱信信，不信拉倒，也就剩半年左右时间。
> 
> 左图17日，右图不晚于18日。
> 两种可能：
> 1，白点是蒸汽轮机底座，左图晚于右图。
> 2，左图后段动力舱内不是蒸汽轮机，而是类似于脚手架工棚之类的东西，安装完后，成为右图的状态。
> 从两侧舱室分段安装情况来看，1的可能性更大。即白点是蒸汽轮机底座，锅炉另有位置。
> 
> 003 on January 17
> Satellite images from Maxar
> It can be seen that there are two steam turbines in the rear power cabin
> 
> Oil-fired boiler + steam turbine, 100% conventional power.
> I’m not a marketing account. The traffic with opposing views is meaningless to me and cannot be realized. So I just said that the golden V of Weibo with the same traffic can lose a picture, and then keep playing haha and fooling around, leaving the comment area in a mess.
> In any case, it will take about half a year if you don't believe it and need further proof.
> 
> View attachment 711186
> 
> 
> The picture on the left is on the 17th, and the picture on the right is no later than the 18th.
> 
> Two possibilities:
> 
> 1) The white spot is the base of the steam turbine. The figure on the left is later than that on the right, OR
> 
> 2) The rear power cabin in the left picture is not a steam turbine, but something similar to a scaffold shed. After installation, it becomes the state shown in the right picture.
> 
> Seen from the installation of compartment segments on both sides, 1) is more likely. That is, the white spot is the base of the steam turbine, and the boiler has another location.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354457861426831362
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354670349724471296
> 陆上试车锅炉房是啥玩意你应该知道吧
> 
> You should know what the boiler room is for land test run
> 
> View attachment 711189
> 
> View attachment 711188
> 
> 
> 其实用啥动力去年7月这份招标公告出来就“该”清楚了，只不过尺寸数据直到去年8月才有航拍图可以推算，在那之前一直都还心存幻想。很显然，用来测试的数据跟苏联KVG增压锅炉基本符合，跟温度只有不到300度的美国舰用压水堆完全不是一回事。你可以信贴吧的那些个所谓“证据”，但不用试图说服俺。
> 
> In fact, it should have been clear when the tender announcement came out in July last year, but the size data could not be calculated until August last year by aerial photograph. Before that, I still had some illusions. Obviously, the data used for the test were similar to Soviet KVG pressurized boilers, and completely different from American pressurized water reactors with temperatures of less than 300 ℃. You can post the "evidence", but don't try to convince me.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354462954549243910


Very disappointing the 003 went with conventional power if this is true. They had already made the leap to EM catapults so it doesn't make sense why they couldn't make the (in my opinion smaller) leap to nuclear propulsion. Chinese reactors in terms of design and operation are already quite mature.

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## FuturePAF

Figaro said:


> Very disappointing the 003 went with conventional power if this is true. They had already made the leap to EM catapults so it doesn't make sense why they couldn't make the (in my opinion smaller) leap to nuclear propulsion. Chinese reactors in terms of design and operation are already quite mature.



Maybe they didn’t want to risk it, and only make increment changes on such a high profile program. This would basically be their version of the kitty hawk class CV. Once they have everything down, they can built a type 003a class; similar to the US enterprise to perfect nuclear propulsion, then move on to a Type 004 akin to the Nimitz class.

Flight ops on the Type 003 will probably look something like the following; similar to the Nimitz class but just a tighter fit.


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## juj06750

Figaro said:


> Very disappointing the 003 went with conventional power if this is true. They had already made the leap to EM catapults so it doesn't make sense why they couldn't make the (in my opinion smaller) leap to nuclear propulsion. Chinese reactors in terms of design and operation are already quite mature.


yes, very disappointed 😞 and even shocked 😲 if true; we already run many kinds of nuclear reactors; in 2015, even type 002 was rumored to be CVN but later turned out to be another CV; since then, it was strongly noted that china focus on building CVN as its next carrier; and everybody believe so


FuturePAF said:


> Maybe they didn’t want to risk it, and only make increment changes on such a high profile program. This would basically be their version of the kitty hawk class CV. Once they have everything down, they can built a type 003a class; similar to the US enterprise to perfect nuclear propulsion, then move on to a Type 004 akin to the Nimitz class.


no; technically speaking, according to US experience, such building CV series mostly do NOT help to build any CVN because CV / CVN are totally different in power and subsequent systems

guys, be await; we would know soon 🤫

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## Char

Figaro said:


> Very disappointing the 003 went with conventional power if this is true. They had already made the leap to EM catapults so it doesn't make sense why they couldn't make the (in my opinion smaller) leap to nuclear propulsion. Chinese reactors in terms of design and operation are already quite mature.



Running quickly with small steps!


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## FuturePAF

juj06750 said:


> yes, very disappointed 😞 and even shocked 😲 if true; we now run many kinds of nuclear reactors; in 2015, even type 002 was rumored to be CVN but later turned out to be another CV; since then, it was strongly noted that china focus on building CVN as its next carrier; and everybody believe so
> 
> no; technically speaking, according to US experience, such building CV series mostly do NOT help to build any CVN because CV / CVN are totally different in power and subsequent systems
> 
> guys, be await; we would know soon 🤫



Its True the CVN’s have a different design, but when the contractors were building the follow on class; the enterprise, they replaced each of the boilers with nuclear reactors. the enterprise wasn’t called a CVN, but it’s designated a CVA(N).

The enterprise has 8 reactors. There was a learning curve, and when the built the Nimitz they must have learned what they needed to know to go down to the current two reactor designs.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Figaro said:


> Very disappointing the 003 went with conventional power if this is true. They had already made the leap to EM catapults so it doesn't make sense why they couldn't make the (in my opinion smaller) leap to nuclear propulsion. Chinese reactors in terms of design and operation are already quite mature.



He is just repeating fzgfzy's narrative, nothing new after all.

The propulsion compartments of the Type 003 have no space left for eight boilers.

The Type 003 weighs about 100,000 tonnes according to the US agency, it cannot be conventional.









Report to Congress on Chinese Naval Modernization - USNI News


The following is the Jan. 27, 2021 Congressional Research Service Report, China Naval Modernization: Implications for U.S. Navy Capabilities—Background and Issues for Congress. From the report In an era of renewed great power competition, China’s military modernization effort, including its...




news.usni.org






Char said:


> Running quickly with small steps!



The ship that will serve for a half century cannot use that approach.

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## CAPRICORN-88

_Is there any particular reason why CV-03 cannot be nuclear powered? 

What could be hindering its conversion? 

https://www.arctictoday.com/chinas-...latform-for-future-nuclear-aircraft-carriers/

Both 03 and 04 belongs to the same class. Conventional wisdom tells us if 03 is powered by steam boilers, so will 04.

But as usual I will be patient and very soon we will have the answer. _


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## ChineseTiger1986

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _Is there any particular reason why CV-03 cannot be nuclear powered?
> 
> What could be hindering its conversion?
> 
> https://www.arctictoday.com/chinas-...latform-for-future-nuclear-aircraft-carriers/
> 
> Both 03 and 04 belongs to the same class. Conventional wisdom tells us if 03 is powered by steam boilers, so will 04.
> 
> But as usual I will be patient and very soon we will have the answer. _



The Type 004 will definitely be the sister ship of the Type 003, perhaps even the Type 005 & Type 006.

Be patient, we will soon know the answer by the coming spring.

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## aziqbal

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 004 will definitely be the sister ship of the Type 003, perhaps even the Type 005 & Type 006.
> 
> Be patient, we will soon know the answer by the coming spring.



you sound like another low quality Chinese fanboy

its clear 003 is not nuclear powered 

now you are simply trolling

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## Deino

aziqbal said:


> you sound like another low quality Chinese fanboy
> 
> its clear 003 is not nuclear powered
> 
> now you are simply trolling




Why so offensive? Even if I don't agree with him on the powerplant issue, we at least share all information to find a final answer and as he noted " we will soon know the answer by the coming spring".

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## aziqbal

Deino said:


> Why so offensive? Even if I don't agree with him on the powerplant issue, we at least share all information to find a final answer and as he noted " we will soon know the answer by the coming spring".



because anything which is not presented to these fan boys in a shiny manner does not satisfy them hence this is how you treat them


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## Deino

aziqbal said:


> because anything which is not presented to these fan boys in a shiny manner does not satisfy them hence this is how you treat them




Pardon?!  ... I don't get it!

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## GiantPanda

An IEP system that can power a 90000 plus tons carrier with electro-magnetic catapults is more revolutionary than a CVN by a wide margin.

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## samsara

Deino said:


> Pardon?!  ... I don't get it!


That member -- aziqbal -- hardly gives any contribution to this section through any conducive post.... now suddenly jump in and being rude -- this guy really does not know civility and how to measure one self.

Just look at his posts in this "Chinese Defence Forum" section all this time... no contribution at all, just demanding this and that, belittling, judging, trolling... the same attitude at SDF, only folks there are not so kind like here... much sterner  

Please, please do not ridicule oneself. If you won't contribute, fine, just behave oneself.

ChineseTiger1986 has his standing all this time, he may get it wrong or right eventually, but he did present his cases, spent efforts and time to dig some info.

Now look into mirror... what are you doing here??? to make such improper noise even being rude ????

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## english_man

Just a quick note....ignore this idiot "aziqbal".........this person recently got banned from the Sinodefenceforum.

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## ChineseTiger1986

aziqbal said:


> you sound like another low quality Chinese fanboy
> 
> its clear 003 is not nuclear powered
> 
> now you are simply trolling



I would be much more staggering if this ship can be powered by boilers, which would be a much more impressive feat than the nuclear reactor technologically speaking.

If our boilers are so powerful, then the Type 002 would not be a mere replica of the Kuznetsov class.

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## ChineseTiger1986

GiantPanda said:


> An IEP system that can power a 90000 plus tons carrier with electro-magnetic catapults is more revolutionary than a CVN by a wide margin.



True, but a 90,000+ tonnes carrier still needs to be nuclear powered. 

With the IEP system, we can build a more enhanced/sophisticated CVN. 

The US has still not fully mastered the IEP system, that's why they still got stuck in the Nimitz era, and having deep troubles to make the Ford class to become functional.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Why so offensive? Even if I don't agree with him on the powerplant issue, we at least share all information to find a final answer and as he noted " we will soon know the answer by the coming spring".



Everybody needs to stay-tuned, pretty sure they won't leave the propulsion compartments with two giant holes forever, and soon they will seal it when the engines arrived, and many people will soon discover it is nuclear reactors or boilers.

If some people are still not certain, then just wait the island structure being sitting on the top-right corner of the flight deck. 

The Type 003 is just a couple meters shorter than the Ford class, but with a wider beam and perhaps the same draft.

So you can imagine the size of this monster.

Aside the latest US supercarriers, it is going to be much larger than any other aircraft carriers in the history.

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## Globenim

It would be hilarious if they installed a ramp.


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## Mohrenn

The whole reason there's an EM catapult on the Carrier is because china made progress in electrical power engineering that allows to have an EM catapult without nuclear power. Up until that progress they weren't sure if they would have an EM catapult on this carrier. It was a pretty big news when it came out so I don't know how some people here act like they never heard of it. Another news was that China wanted to first have a nuclear Icebreaker before building other nuclear powered ships. I think people really want it to be nuclear so they ignore news that go against their dream.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Mohrenn said:


> Another news was that China wanted to first have a nuclear Icebreaker before building other nuclear powered ships. I think people really want it to be nuclear so they ignore news that go against their dream.



That's the disinformation spread by fzgfzy.

China has never officially stated that it will build the nuclear icebreaker before the CVN.

The nuclear icebreaker uses the nuclear reactor with lower enriched uranium compared to the nuclear reactor of the CVN.

It is comparing apple to orange as China will never test its nuclear reactor of the CVN on a nuclear icebreaker.


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## Deino

Again only a very blurry satellite image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier under construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai taken on 7. February (in comparison to mid-January) and it appears as if the the opening of the rear auxiliary machine concealment was closed.

(Image via @horobeyo / Twitter)

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## Deino

A new image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier allegedly taken today.

(Image via @上琴gogogo from Baidu)

See: https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7232857109

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## lcloo

Satellite photo dated 19th February 2021.

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## CIA Mole

lcloo said:


> Satellite photo dated 19th February 2021.
> 
> View attachment 717929


This is for J15 or J35?


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## Deino

Deino said:


> A new image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier allegedly taken today.
> 
> (Image via @上琴gogogo from Baidu)
> 
> See: https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7232857109
> 
> 
> View attachment 717692




The original one ...

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## ChineseTiger1986



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## jaybird

samsara said:


> That member -- aziqbal -- hardly gives any contribution to this section through any conducive post.... now suddenly jump in and being rude -- this guy really does not know civility and how to measure one self.
> 
> Just look at his posts in this "Chinese Defence Forum" section all this time... no contribution at all, just demanding this and that, belittling, judging, trolling... the same attitude at SDF, only folks there are not so kind like here... much sterner
> 
> Please, please do not ridicule oneself. If you won't contribute, fine, just behave oneself.
> 
> ChineseTiger1986 has his standing all this time, he may get it wrong or right eventually, but he did present his cases, spent efforts and time to dig some info.
> 
> Now look into mirror... what are you doing here??? to make such improper noise even being rude ????



I remember him as a decent poster from SinoDefence forum way back. But he is a changed man maybe in the last few years to a very hostile and antagonistic attitude towards China almost like the Indian trolls. Maybe he was always that way deep down, now he just doesn't hide it anymore like sinosolider.

As far as fzgfzy goes, he used to be a very reliable source of information regarding PLAN shipbuilding. But maybe he is intentionally spreading disinformation now or he just doesn't have the insider information anymore. We can't really take his words as gold now. It won't be long we can find out 003 is nuclear or conventional soon anyway. Just need a little patience as always with Chinese military enthusiast who follow these kind of projects.

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## ChineseTiger1986

jaybird said:


> I remember him as a decent poster from SinoDefence forum way back. But he is a changed man maybe in the last few years to a very hostile and antagonistic attitude towards China almost like the Indian trolls. Maybe he was always that way deep down, now he just doesn't hide it anymore like sinosolider.
> 
> As far as fzgfzy goes, he used to be a very reliable source of information regarding PLAN shipbuilding. But maybe he is intentionally spreading disinformation now or he just doesn't have the insider information anymore. We can't really take his words as gold now. It won't be long we can find out 003 is nuclear or conventional soon anyway. Just need a little patience as always with Chinese military enthusiast who follow these kind of projects.



Overall, the Type 003 will resemble an enlarged Ulyanovsk with flattop.

The ship will be about 10 meters shorter than US supercarriers, but slightly wider, and weighs about 95,000 tonnes.

Even fzgfzy starts to acknowledge that this ship could weigh as much as 90,000 tonnes, even though he was very reluctant to acknowledge its supercarrier stature.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Overall, the Type 003 will resemble an enlarged Ulyanovsk with flattop.
> 
> The ship will be about 10 meters shorter than US supercarriers, but slightly wider, and weighs about 95,000 tonnes.
> 
> Even fzgfzy starts to acknowledge that this ship could weigh as much as 90,000 tonnes, even though he was very reluctant to acknowledge its supercarrier stature.




Can't wait to see the next modules added and even more the next clearer fly-over images taken from an airliner!


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## samsara

From 逆襲 @horobeyo on 2021.02.26:

俺一开始也以为20MW涡轮发电机是给核鱼用的，两台刚好。
这么看来，4台合计80MW+柴油发电机，003的供电能力惊人。

_At first I also thought that the 20MW turbine generator was for nuclear submarine, and two were just right.
In this way, the power supply capacity of four sets of 80MW+ diesel generators in total for the 003 is impressive.










_


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365100775081304068

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## Polestar 2

UKBengali said:


> China will end up with a carrier force as strong or even stronger than the US Navy.


The quality will be better but I doubt PLAN would build 10 CVN. China will aim for 4 modern carriers and decommission CV-16 and CV-17. To maintain 10 CVN is too much.


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## KurtisBrian

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Overall, the Type 003 will resemble an enlarged Ulyanovsk with flattop.
> 
> The ship will be about 10 meters shorter than US supercarriers, but slightly wider, and weighs about 95,000 tonnes.



So either they chose to buy the Ulyanovsk design because it was quicker and cheaper than creating a new design or they couldn't design one on their own.

shorter and wider usually = slower but more stable. Better learning platform.


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## Deino

KurtisBrian said:


> So either they chose to buy the Ulyanovsk design because it was quicker and cheaper than creating a new design or they couldn't design one on their own.
> 
> shorter and wider usually = slower but more stable. Better learning platform.




What??? From what do you come to the conclusion they "chose to buy the Ulyanovsk" or even more "did the Ukrainian ever sell it"??   "Looks like" is not the same as "they bought and copied".

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## KurtisBrian

Deino said:


> What??? From what do you come to the conclusion they "chose to buy the Ulyanovsk" or even more "did the Ukrainian ever sell it"??   "Looks like" is not the same as "they bought and copied".



they had to refurbish their first carrier. the second is an enlarged and slightly altered version of the first design. Both of which are based on cruiser hull designs. Now the new one "looks like" another Russian design. ChineseTiger1986 didn't say that it looks like new design or an American design. China has money. Even if if they can design a carrier why waste time on a new design when they can buy a design? Simple economics and speed efficiency.  Sure, perhaps the Chinese spent years and huge sums of money creating their own design. That design would be made by people without any experience in designing true aircraft carriers. What would an intelligent person do for their first true carrier hull design? The Chinese are very intelligent so I assume they make logical intelligent choices.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Can't wait to see the next modules added and even more the next clearer fly-over images taken from an airliner!



The island structure probably sitting in a similar position to the Nimitz class, but not as further back as the Ford class, in between the two elevators from the right side of the flight deck.


KurtisBrian said:


> So either they chose to buy the Ulyanovsk design because it was quicker and cheaper than creating a new design or they couldn't design one on their own.
> 
> shorter and wider usually = slower but more stable. Better learning platform.



The rumor about China obtaining the blueprint Ulyanovsk class did fly around for a quite long time.

Initially, I didn't buy this rumor, but later when I saw the uncanny structural layout resemblance between the Type 003 and the Ulyanovsk class, I start to believe it might be true.

Both Type 003 and Ulyanovsk have this unique V-Shape stern.








samsara said:


> From 逆襲 @horobeyo on 2021.02.26:
> 
> 俺一开始也以为20MW涡轮发电机是给核鱼用的，两台刚好。
> 这么看来，4台合计80MW+柴油发电机，003的供电能力惊人。
> 
> _At first I also thought that the 20MW turbine generator was for nuclear submarine, and two were just right.
> In this way, the power supply capacity of four sets of 80MW+ diesel generators in total for the 003 is impressive.
> 
> 
> View attachment 720198
> 
> 
> View attachment 720199
> _
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365100775081304068



If they still believe these magical boilers, then all I can say is good luck about to obtain this alien technology.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> What??? From what do you come to the conclusion they "chose to buy the Ulyanovsk" or even more "did the Ukrainian ever sell it"??   "Looks like" is not the same as "they bought and copied".



Probably some Soviet era experts who belonged to the project 1143.7 did assist China to design the Type 003.

To build an aircraft carriers isn't just about the electromagnetic catapult and nuclear reactor. Although China has produced these technologies by itself, but we have very little experience to design a supercarrier.

To refurbish the Ulyanovsk design on the Type 003 probably means it is a viable shortcut way for China to build a nuclear supercarrier in the shortest amount of time.


KurtisBrian said:


> they had to refurbish their first carrier. the second is an enlarged and slightly altered version of the first design. Both of which are based on cruiser hull designs. Now the new one "looks like" another Russian design. ChineseTiger1986 didn't say that it looks like new design or an American design. China has money. Even if if they can design a carrier why waste time on a new design when they can buy a design? Simple economics and speed efficiency.  Sure, perhaps the Chinese spent years and huge sums of money creating their own design. That design would be made by people without any experience in designing true aircraft carriers. What would an intelligent person do for their first true carrier hull design? The Chinese are very intelligent so I assume they make logical intelligent choices.



If China is so hasty to refurbish the design of the Ulyanovsk on the Type 003, then it means the Type 003 is becoming more likely nuclear powered.

Otherwise, if China wants to design the Type 003 from scratch, then the successor of the CV-17 would most likely be a 70,000 tonnes class conventional flattop instead of a 90,000 tonnes one that strongly resembles the Ulyanovsk class.

So there is one possible answer: China wants to build a nuclear supercarrier as soon as possible.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Possibly the island structure of the Type 003???

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## ChineseTiger1986



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## lcloo

Note the whitish grey areas. These are the top modules added recently.

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## Deino

Could this be the first official image of how the Type 003 aircraft carrier will look like? 🤔

At least this commemoration coin from the China State Shipbuilding Corporation (CSSC) looks very interesting. 

(Image via @芯苒 from https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2709946&extra=page=1)

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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> Could this be the first official image of how the Type 003 aircraft carrier will look like? 🤔
> 
> At least this commemoration coin from the China State Shipbuilding Corporation (CSSC) looks very interesting.
> 
> (Image via @芯苒 from https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2709946&extra=page=1)
> 
> 
> View attachment 721763
> 
> 
> View attachment 721764



It was actually available in Taobao many years ago.

That's obviously an old badge, and the flattop within that badge is probably the design of the original Type 002 with steam catapults.

Right now, the CSSC is designated as “中国船舶集团有限公司” since 2019.

In that badge, it still uses the old designation as “中国船舶工业集团公司”.

The original Type 002 was comparable to the Kitty Hawk class, and it was designated to be a 70,000 tonnes class flattop with steam catapult.

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## lcloo

Digging out the old CG picture of WIP of CV17 which is comparable to current WIP of 003, my guess is that 003 will be launched around 2022 June, plus or minus 2 or 3 months difference because they belonged to different displacement class and different construction method.

Fitting out and sea trial will be from 2 1/2 years (CV17 refers) to 3 years. Thus commissioning would be around 3rd quarter of 2025.

CV17 WIP illustration: The rusty red parts are the modules added as at 2016 January. The gray and orange parts were not added as at that time.

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## Deino

And another update, this time for the Type 003 aircraft carrier under construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard shipyard with once again a blurry satellite image only dated 10. March 10.

Seems as if in comparison to the previously most recent image from 2. March no major changes are visible.

(Image via @卫星图像发烧员 from Weibo)

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## obj 705A

Finaly we have satalite images of the powerplant and I belive we could now safely say it is conventionally powered.
May be the reactors were still not ready when they first began construction because even if they would begin construction in say 2018 the other components of the carrier were probably being produced even before that so even if the reactors were ready in say 2019 or 2020 it was already too late to change the design.

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## Deino



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## Polestar 2

So what propulsion will it be? Nuclear or Steam turbine with those clearer photo? Based on what? Number of generator?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Polestar 2 said:


> So what propulsion will it be? Nuclear or Steam turbine with those clearer photo? Based on what? Number of generator?



It could be an radiation shielding box, but we need more clear picture to draw the conclusion.

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## lcloo

Update. Fabricated modules placed along side the dry dock.

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## Deino

Here the clear one...

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## lcloo

Bad news for all China military watchers. CJDBY has closed permanently all threads on PLA, PLAN, PLAAF, China Space and New Concept Weapons.

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## jaybird

lcloo said:


> Bad news for all China military watchers. CJDBY has closed permanently all threads on PLA, PLAN, PLAAF, China Space and New Concept Weapons.
> 
> View attachment 727008



It's a sad day for China military watchers. But even more sad day for the lazy intelligence agents who get used to collecting information on a platter from the China military watchers.

Seriously, I think it will mostly be a temporary thing. Maybe after a year or two it will be back to normal unless
U.S and China really going for hot war.

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## S10

lcloo said:


> Bad news for all China military watchers. CJDBY has closed permanently all threads on PLA, PLAN, PLAAF, China Space and New Concept Weapons.
> 
> View attachment 727008


Some idiot nicknamed longyin was debating about air defense units and gave out a bunch of information on a Taiwan forum to prove his point.

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## vi-va

lcloo said:


> Bad news for all China military watchers. CJDBY has closed permanently all threads on PLA, PLAN, PLAAF, China Space and New Concept Weapons.
> 
> View attachment 727008


Very good news. I was banned in CJDBY. 
The management of CJDBY is so bad, I hate it.

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## Deino

And two more new images of the Type 003 aircraft carrier under construction from a slightly different angle. 

(Image via http://hahanfw.com)

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## CIA Mole

Hi if China is satisfied with EMALS, will they gyft the 1st carrier to pakistan?


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## Deino

CIA Mole said:


> Hi if China is satisfied with EMALS, will they gyft the 1st carrier to pakistan?




NO!


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

CIA Mole said:


> Hi if China is satisfied with EMALS, will they gyft the 1st carrier to pakistan?



You mean 001? 001 was commissioned in 2012. It's not scheduled for decommissioning until after 2050.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Deino said:


> And two more new images of the Type 003 aircraft carrier under construction from a slightly different angle.
> 
> (Image via http://hahanfw.com)
> 
> View attachment 727089
> 
> View attachment 727090



Coming along nicely.


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## Deino

Can anyone help, what they are discussing here?


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## vi-va

Deino said:


> Can anyone help, what they are discussing here?
> 
> View attachment 727517

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## Team Blue

I'm 90% certain that should translate as "aircraft elevator recess on starboard side"

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## vi-va

Team Blue said:


> I'm 90% certain that should translate as "aircraft elevator recess on starboard side"


I think you are right. Thanks for correction.

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## Team Blue

vi-va said:


> I think you are right. Thanks for correction.


It totally translates directly as cave FWIW. 凹口 looks like it's fairly specialized. That and I've never heard of anything on a ship referred to as a cave.


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## Char

CIA Mole said:


> Hi if China is satisfied with EMALS, will they gyft the 1st carrier to pakistan?



Why not 075?

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## GiantPanda

CIA Mole said:


> Hi if China is satisfied with EMALS, will they gyft the 1st carrier to pakistan?



Were you taken in by this story from 2019?








China plans to sell Pak an aircraft carrier and integrate it militarily - The Sunday Guardian Live


Beijing is increasingly integrating Pakistan into its military system to fulfil its global ambitions. New Delhi: The noticeable changes in China’s foreign policy in recent months, particularly the conciliatory tone, are attributable to a large extent directly to pressure exerted on Beijing by...



www.sundayguardianlive.com





It is completely unsubstantiated. There were no reports from the Chinese (or Pakistani) government about this. And not even any rumors in the Chinese forums. 

Besides being only one of two carriers in operation, the Liaoning will be needed to train carrier pilots for many more years after the CATOBAR carriers come online.

It'll be in PLAN service for most of our lifetimes.

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## siegecrossbow

CIA Mole said:


> Hi if China is satisfied with EMALS, will they gyft the 1st carrier to pakistan?



Why the hell would Pakistan want a carrier?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

siegecrossbow said:


> Why the hell would Pakistan want a carrier?



It's not like Pakistan can afford one in the first place.

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## jaybird

CIA Mole said:


> Hi if China is satisfied with EMALS, will they gyft the 1st carrier to pakistan?



Currently, Aircraft Carrier is too much of a burden to the Pakistan budget and resources that's not very practical. But never say never..... if economic reality in the future gets better who knows.

Although the possibility is still quite low. But I wish Pakistan navy will procure 2 to 4 DDG in the class of Type-052D in the near future. Since the chance of an all out war between Pakistan and India is very slim. But boarder skirmish happens quite often. If there is a naval skirmish happen, DDG like the 052D will match or exceed any DDG in the Indian navy.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jaybird said:


> Currently, Aircraft Carrier is too much of a burden to the Pakistan budget and resources that's not very practical. But never say never..... if economic reality in the future gets better who knows.
> 
> Although the possibility is still quite low. But I wish Pakistan navy will procure 2 to 4 DDG in the class of Type-052D in the near future. Since the chance of an all out war between Pakistan and India is very slim. But boarder skirmish happens quite often. If there is a naval skirmish happen, DDG like the 052D will match or exceed any DDG in the Indian navy.



Pakistan can't afford destroyer. Hell, not even Turkey can.


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## Deino

Even if one similar image from this series was posted on Tuesday, these for are slightly different and eventually reveal some more details on the latest progress on the Type 003 aircraft carrier. Also - even if not entirely sure - there seems to be the side hangar openings visible on starboard?

(Image via Zhai Cai at 解放軍評論團 from FB)

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## Deino

Following the most recent images from 23. March, here is another update showing that the Type 003 aircraft carrier's stern section has a new hangar installed, so that only the last section of the stern section is not yet installed.

(Image by see the watermark via @horobeyo/Twitter)

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Is it on track for launch this year?


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## Deino

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Is it on track for launch this year?



No, IMO highly unlikely ... based on the 002's construction it is about at a stage where the Shandong was between Dec. 2015 and May 2016, as such between 12-14 months before launch.

So I would guess launch by April/May 2022 is likely.

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## samsara

Deino said:


> No, IMO highly unlikely ... based on the 002's construction it is about at a stage where the Shandong was between Dec. 2015 and May 2016, as such between 12-14 months before launch.
> 
> So I would guess launch by April/May 2022 is likely.
> 
> View attachment 728755


No problem with the exact timing, be it the 1st half or the 2nd half of 2022... for the most important thing, the only matter that really count is to produce a high quality aircraft carrier, with such breakthrough technology as DC EMCAT that works smoothly, or as designated. China doesn't have the luxury of the convenient WRC printer to afford a failed-to-deliver EMCAT as being faced by the Ford class!

Making a new type, much larger carrier with no serious problem and hopefully proceed into smooth operation is the most important achievement! I hope regular PDF members won't come out with wishes of arbitrary schedule. Just get real.

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## Deino

samsara said:


> No problem with the exact timing, be it the 1st half or the 2nd half of 2022... for the most important thing, the only matter that really count is to produce a high quality aircraft carrier, with such breakthrough technology as DC EMCAT that works smoothly, or as designated. China doesn't have the luxury of the convenient WRC printer to afford a failed-to-deliver EMCAT as being faced by the Ford class!
> 
> Making a new type, much larger carrier with no serious problem and hopefully proceed into smooth operation is the most important achievement! I hope regular PDF members won't come out with wishes of arbitrary schedule. Just get real.



I ca only agree with you but over-hyped wishful thinking up to plain ridiculous claims can be found everywhere. I remember last summer, when we've just seen the very first module in the current dry dock, when one more or less new member at the SDF claimed we will see its launch already on October first if not earlier. Any arguments and reasonable explanation was turned down and in the end I was accused of being simply wrong since I'm a stupid foreigner!

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## samsara

lcloo said:


> Bad news for all China military watchers. CJDBY has closed permanently all threads on PLA, PLAN, PLAAF, China Space and New Concept Weapons.
> 
> View attachment 727008


This OSINT blogger is quite upset that China cracked down some military discussions and *showed his/her true color *  

he/she posted some drivels even jumped into the Five-Eyes propaganda plays to destabilize Xinjiang to weaken China _using the human rights issue as pretext for propaganda drive!_

demanding China to be more transparent with her potentials under the current heavy toxic climate??? 

he/she demands to know the inner working of China to learn her strength & weakness, and feel offended that the nation won't make it easier for folks like that... hahahaha oh my dear 😂


















__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1375507568152342528

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## ChineseTiger1986

fzgfzy is likely a 1450 spy employed by the DPP.

I just came cross that he got a very thick taiwanese accent, definitely not a mainlander.

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## jaybird

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> fzgfzy is likely a 1450 spy employed by the DPP.
> 
> I just came cross that he got a very thick taiwanese accent, definitely not a mainlander.




Dude... I think you are becoming a little paranoid.

Poor fzgfzy.... first reputation and credibility come into question. Now gets called a spy for Taiwan DPP.😆


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## siegecrossbow

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Is it on track for launch this year?



Better question is whether it will enter service before or after Vikrant.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

siegecrossbow said:


> Better question is whether it will enter service before or after Vikrant.



Before of course. Vikrant is delayed by decades. America and Israel and Russia won't build its engines and radars and planes due to covid.

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## ChineseTiger1986

jaybird said:


> Dude... I think you are becoming a little paranoid.
> 
> Poor fzgfzy.... first reputation and credibility come into question. Now gets called a spy for Taiwan DPP.😆



He brought this to himself by self-destructing his own reputation.

So don't blame other military fans being too harsh with him.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Don't tell me that these two white objects are some sort of super "boilers", would you?

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## Deino

I don't say anything!

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## nang2

Deino said:


> I don't say anything!
> 
> View attachment 729569


I thought you made typos. Should it be "I don't see anything!"


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## ZeEa5KPul

siegecrossbow said:


> Better question is whether it will enter service before or after Vikrant.


That's in question?

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## sheik

samsara said:


> This OSINT blogger is quite upset that China cracked down some military discussions and *showed his/her true color *
> 
> he/she posted some drivels even jumped into the Five-Eyes propaganda plays to destabilize Xinjiang to weaken China _using the human rights issue as pretext for propaganda drive!_
> 
> demanding China to be more transparent with her potentials under the current heavy toxic climate???
> 
> he/she demands to know the inner working of China to learn her strength & weakness, and feel offended that the nation won't make it easier for folks like that... hahahaha oh my dear 😂
> 
> View attachment 729021
> View attachment 729022
> 
> View attachment 729023
> 
> View attachment 729024
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1375507568152342528



They are just desperate. 🤣

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## Deino

Again a very blurry image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier.

(Image via @捣蛋来啦 from Weibo)

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## lcloo

Many modules sighted in previous photos, on the right side of the drydock, seem to be missing, very likely having been joined with the main hull. Also what look like part of angle deck has been added.

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> Many modules sighted in previous photos, on the right side of the drydock, seem to be missing, very likely having been joined with the main hull. Also what look like part of angle deck has been added.
> 
> View attachment 731143




However I don't think this rectangular part s already a piece of the flight deck extensions, it is smaller ... looks IMO more like a platform/scaffold tower ?

At least on the Sandong it looked much larger,


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> However I don't think this rectangular part s already a piece of the flight deck extensions, it is smaller ... looks IMO more like a platform/scaffold tower ?
> 
> At least on the Sandong it looked much larger,
> 
> View attachment 731147



Because the Type 003 is only on the first layer of the flight deck, whereas the Type 002 in that pic was already on the second layer.

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## leviathan

can we confirm the third lifter from this picture?

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## Deino

Another blurry update of the Type 003 aircraft carrier taken on 10th April with some changes around the suspected overhang on port side. eems to be a bit larger than on the image taken on 5th April. 

(Image via @horobeyo)


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## ChineseTiger1986

leviathan said:


> can we confirm the third lifter from this picture?



It should be in the final modules close to the stern.


Deino said:


> Another blurry update of the Type 003 aircraft carrier taken on 10th April with some changes around the suspected overhang on port side. eems to be a bit larger than on the image taken on 5th April.
> 
> (Image via @horobeyo)
> 
> View attachment 733012



The dual engine rooms will soon be sealed, and then they can finish expanding the entire flight deck.


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## AmirPatriot

Think you guys will like this














China's New Aircraft Carrier Is In Same League as US Navy's Ford Class - Naval News


The Chinese Navy is radically modernizing its capabilities. Chief among these are a fleet of aircraft carriers. A new satellite image clearly shows the Type-003 aircraft carrier taking shape in Shanghai, and it is the largest so far.




www.navalnews.com





*China’s New Aircraft Carrier Is In Same League As US Navy’s Ford Class

*

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## ChineseTiger1986

AmirPatriot said:


> Think you guys will like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's New Aircraft Carrier Is In Same League as US Navy's Ford Class - Naval News
> 
> 
> The Chinese Navy is radically modernizing its capabilities. Chief among these are a fleet of aircraft carriers. A new satellite image clearly shows the Type-003 aircraft carrier taking shape in Shanghai, and it is the largest so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.navalnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *China’s New Aircraft Carrier Is In Same League As US Navy’s Ford Class*



The Type 003 is a 90,000 - 100,000 tonnes CVN with EMALS and AAG.

Sutton was wrong about the propulsion, and it is indeed nuclear powered as you can see the two white boxes that will serve as the radiation shielding.

Here is how the nuclear reactor is placed within the box.

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## Han Patriot

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It is a 90,000 - 100,000 tonnes CVN with EMALS and AAG.
> 
> Sutton was wrong about the propulsion, and it is indeed nuclear powered as you can see the two white boxes served for the radiation shielding.


Time will tell. 2 years ago, J20 powered by WS10G was also farfetched.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Han Patriot said:


> Time will tell. 2 years ago, J20 powered by WS10G was also farfetched.



All debates will be concluded once the island structure has been placed on the top of the flight deck.

Because the two engine compartments will soon be sealed, and the flight deck will be paved very quickly in the coming summer.

And we might see the appearance of the island structure in the second half of this year.

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## obj 705A

One has to take a step back and look at the facts objectively, so far all evidence points to the Type 003 being a modern version of the Kitty Hawk, it has the same exact water line length as the Kitty Hawk, it also has almost the same width (the width is either identical or 1 meter wider in favor of the 003), type 003 won't be anywhere near 100k tonnes, the Kitty Hawk was 75k tonnes, so at most the type 003 will be an 85k tonne CV.
For me personally I am 100% confident at this point that the type 003 will be a 75k-85k tonne conventionally powered CV, and that is what my bet's on.

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## Globenim

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 003 is a 90,000 - 100,000 tonnes CVN with EMALS and AAG.
> 
> Sutton was wrong about the propulsion, and it is indeed nuclear powered as you can see the two white boxes that will serve as the radiation shielding.
> 
> Here is how the nuclear reactor is placed within the box.
> 
> View attachment 734215


From the top these dont look like shielding boxes at all to me when you zoom in closer. More like 3 units next to each other. Didnt see any closer image and other angle so far that makes it look like cubes.


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## ChineseTiger1986

obj 705A said:


> One has to take a step back and look at the facts objectively, so far all evidence points to the Type 003 being a modern version of the Kitty Hawk, it has the same exact water line length as the Kitty Hawk, it also has almost the same width (the width is either identical or 1 meter wider in favor of the 003), type 003 won't be anywhere near 100k tonnes, the Kitty Hawk was 75k tonnes, so at most the type 003 will be an 85k tonne CV.
> For me personally I am 100% confident at this point that the type 003 will be a 75k-85k tonne conventionally powered CV, and that is what my bet's on.



The Type 003 is about 306 X 41 X 12.5 compared to 317 X 40.8 X 12.5 of CVN-78.

It is just slightly shorter than the Ford class, but much larger than the Kitty Hawk class.

BTW, the silhouette of the Type 003 will resemble the Ford class except being slightly shorter/wider, not even remotely close to the slender one depicted by Sutton. He wants to create an impression that the Type 003 is inferior to the Ford class, but that's not the case in reality.



Globenim said:


> From the top these dont look like shielding boxes at all to me when you zoom in closer. More like 3 units next to each other. Didnt see any closer image and other angle so far that makes it look like cubes.



It is a cubic box.

The shielding box of the Ford class also has those lines that looks like being separated into 3 parts.

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## Deino

Again only a very blurry image showing the latest progress on the Tpye 003 aircraft carrier's construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai. But at least it seems as if there is what appears to be an additional extension on the port side.

(Image via Cai Zhai/FB)

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## Deino

Side by side comparisons of the two most recent images of the Type 003 carrier.

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## Deino

by the way ... are these the blast deflectors?


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## Globenim

Deino said:


> by the way ... are these the blast deflectors?
> 
> View attachment 735810


The arrangement of the 3rd deflector pretty much confirms all rumor and specualtion that we are going for catapult now. I mean nobody was questioning this anymore but it was still just specultion and rumors. 
...unless its a dual ramp carrier... 🙄

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## obj 705A

fellows back at the SDF mentioned something which should have been quite obvious but was not talked much about here, if the objects pointed out by Deino are indeed the deflectors (and IMO they most likely are) then we can easily figure out the length of the flight deck, if the catapults on the type 003 are of the same length as those of the Nimitz then that means the flight deck length of the 003 is 316 meters so the length of the ship will be around the same as that of the Shandong, obviously the tonnage will be much higher than the Shandong because it's longer at the waterline and wider.
I believe this old "leaked" CGI is the closest to how the Type 003 will look like:






this fan made CGI which looks like it was inspired by the leaked one, IMO is probably the closest thing to how the type 003 will look like:





while the type 003 will present a huge upgrade for the PLAN however it is still definitly not the final goal that the PLAN is aiming for, and since the next carrier that Dalian will build may be another type 003 then it will take several more years before the PLAN finaly has a 100k tonne CVN probably closer to the end of this decade.

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## sheik

obj 705A said:


> fellows back at the SDF mentioned something which should have been quite obvious but was not talked much about here, if the objects pointed out by Deino are indeed the deflectors (and IMO they most likely are) then we can easily figure out the length of the flight deck, if the catapults on the type 003 are of the same length as those of the Nimitz then that means the flight deck length of the 003 is 316 meters so the length of the ship will be around the same as that of the Shandong, obviously the tonnage will be much higher than the Shandong because it's longer at the waterline and wider.
> I believe this old "leaked" CGI is the closest to how the Type 003 will look like:
> 
> View attachment 736451
> 
> 
> this fan made CGI which looks like it was inspired by the leaked one, IMO is probably the closest thing to how the type 003 will look like:
> View attachment 736452
> 
> 
> while the type 003 will present a huge upgrade for the PLAN however it is still definitly not the final goal that the PLAN is aiming for, and since the next carrier that Dalian will build may be another type 003 then it will take several more years before the PLAN finaly has a 100k tonne CVN probably closer to the end of this decade.


IIRC the EMALS is longer than then steam catapults. So the flight deck will be more than 320m.

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## ChineseTiger1986

sheik said:


> IIRC the EMALS is longer than then steam catapults. So the flight deck will be more than 320m.



Yep, let's put all kind of speculations aside, and the real Type 003 will appear in just a couple of months.

And most of us surely won't be disappointed.

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## Deino

Oh well 😲😖 ... again more for the sake of completeness than to identify any details, here are three recent but most blurry images of the Type 003 aircraft carrier taken out of an airliner during an overflight of the Jiangnan Shipyard at Shanghai,

(Images via FB)

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## samsara

Deino said:


> Oh well 😲😖 ... again more for the sake of completeness than to identify any details, here are three recent but most blurry images of the Type 003 aircraft carrier taken out of an airliner during an overflight of the Jiangnan Shipyard at Shanghai,
> 
> (Images via FB)
> 
> 
> View attachment 737194
> View attachment 737195
> View attachment 737196


It seemed that Changxing Island was pretty foggy these days, damned the carbon emission, the air pollution was on spike again... Greta will surely cry in tears if she learns about this matter


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## Deino

samsara said:


> It seemed that Changxing Island was pretty foggy these days, damned the carbon emission, the air pollution was on spike again... Greta will surely cry in tears if she learns about this matter




Maybe, but my feeling tells me that this is not due pollution and more that these were in fact pretty clear images in the original version - even simply cameras on mobiles don't make such blurry ones - but later blurred.


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## samsara

Deino said:


> Maybe, but my feeling tells me that this is not due pollution and more that these were in fact pretty clear images in the original version - even simply cameras on mobiles don't make such blurry ones - but later blurred.


Sorry Deino, indeed I'm just having some posting fun teasing minus the /s... the often accusation of the air pollution, Greta with her global warming hoax while ironically the Earth is indeed facing the modern-day Grand Solar Minimum

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## samsara

lcloo said:


> Bad news for all China military watchers. CJDBY has closed permanently all threads on PLA, PLAN, PLAAF, China Space and New Concept Weapons.
> 
> View attachment 727008


Not sure it's directly linked, but here I just stumbled across this CGTN article. Reading below article, no wonder the care takers who were responsible at CJDBY opted to shut the problematic sections off when they thought they couldn't fully control the actions there, or just too troublesome to exercise such control.... little fun but all works, all risks... who wants it??? 

*China's State Security Ministry releases espionage prevention regulations*

CGTN - 15:49, 26-Apr-2021





_Counter-espionage Law of the People's Republic of China. /Xinhua_

*China's Ministry of State Security (MSS) on Monday (4/26)* issued regulations on ESPIONAGE PREVENTION WORK in necessary administrative organs, RELATED SOCIAL ORGANIZATIONS, enterprises and institutions to clarify the responsibilities of the entity TO PREVENT AND COUNTER ESPIONAGE RISKS.

The regulations take effect upon promulgation and it says that the ministry is formulating the list of KEY ANTI-ESPIONAGE SECURITY UNITS together with relevant departments, and once the list is finished, it will inform the units in written form and the list will be regularly adjusted.

Once the entity is listed as a key anti-espionage unit, the MSS can provide guidance to the unit on anti-espionage precautions by providing work manuals, guidelines and other educating materials, distributing written guidance opinions, holding training, taking meetings and advising, etc.

The provisions also said that for units that fail to implement their anti-espionage responsibilities, the MSS is authorized to require them to rectify the problems within a time limit or *summon relevant persons for a face-to-face meeting* in accordance with the law, urging the units to enhance security measures and release timely updates of its progress to correct the situation.

For those units that caused adverse consequences, the MSS will transfer clues to relevant security organs and suggest them to deal with. If the case constitutes a crime, the offender will be investigated for criminal responsibility according to laws.

The regulations on Monday are formulated to ensure specific duties of various authorities and entities in preventing espionage activities and to enhance the whole society's awareness of state security.









China's State Security Ministry releases espionage prevention regulations







news.cgtn.com

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## Deino

After a longer break finally a new image from the riverside showing the Type 003 aircraft carrier under construction at the Jiangnan Changxing Shipyard. 

That image was allegedly taken on 30 April 2021 and some suggest the overhanging extensions on the port side were connected to one, which basically means there won't be an elevator on the port side. 🤔

(Image via @HenriKenhmann/Twitter)

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## sheik

Deino said:


> After a longer break finally a new image from the riverside showing the Type 003 aircraft carrier under construction at the Jiangnan Changxing Shipyard.
> 
> That image was allegedly taken on 30 April 2021 and some suggest the overhanging extensions on the port side were connected to one, which basically means there won't be an elevator on the port side. 🤔
> 
> (Image via @HenriKenhmann/Twitter)
> 
> View attachment 739130
> 
> 
> View attachment 739131



Regarding no elevator on the port side, I cannot tell from this photo. For a carrier at this size, it's hard to imagine there are only two elevators or no one on the port side.


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## ChineseTiger1986

The left elevator is here.



CVN-78






003

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## Deino

Again a very grainy update on the Type 003 aircraft carrier's construction progress...

(Image via by78/SDF)

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## Deino

Hmmm?? ... I must admit I don't understand everything he tells, but for me these blurry images are too blurry to identify anything!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1389412792525066242


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## samsara

Deino said:


> Hmmm?? ... I must admit I don't understand everything he tells, but for me these blurry images are too blurry to identify anything!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1389412792525066242


Figures 1, 2, 3 and 4 are respectively of May 3, April 20, April 10 and March 14.
Compared with the previous structure length of 310~313 meters including the bulbous bow, the latest structure length is about 320 meters. Seen from the shadow, the characteristics of flying shear are more obvious, indicating that the superstructure module of the bow has been installed in place.

The OP might have Wukong's eyes to see through the very foggy weather.

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## Figaro

How far away are we from island installation? It looks like we should see it by mid summer.


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## Deino

A new image ..

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## sheik

Figaro said:


> How far away are we from island installation? It looks like we should see it by mid summer.



According to the progress of Shandong, we are about 3 months away. So hopefully late July to mid August.

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## Polestar 2

Progress seems slow.


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## Deino

Polestar 2 said:


> Progress seems slow.




No! ... measured on your expectations maybe, but otherwise not really.


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## Polestar 2

Deino said:


> No! ... measured on your expectations maybe, but otherwise not really.


According to China standard, its slow.... Its fast compare to West standard.


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## Deino

Polestar 2 said:


> According to China standard, its slow.... Its fast compare to West standard.




Pardon, but that's an unjustified arrogance or a stupid comment! China so far built de facto NONE fully indigenous super-carrier and as such such it is even according to Chinese standard quite fast.

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## Globenim

Deino said:


> Pardon, but that's an *unjustified arrogance or a stupid comment! *China so far built de facto NONE* fully indigenous super-carrier* and as such such it is even according to Chinese standard quite fast.


There is no Chinese standard and therefore it is not slow by Chinese standard?
There is no Chinese standard and therefore it is fast by Chinese standard?

Never mind the completely arbitrary reduction to a hyper specific instance of ships to effectively exclude any precedence of Chinese shipbuilding, something nobody has talked about, how does that even compute? If you assert there is nothing to relate to then it cant have any relative properties like fast or slow.


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## Deino

Globenim said:


> There is no Chinese standard and therefore it is not slow by Chinese standard?
> There is no Chinese standard and therefore it is fast by Chinese standard?
> 
> Never mind the completely arbitrary reduction to a hyper specific instance of ships to effectively exclude any precedence of Chinese shipbuilding, something nobody has talked about, how does that even compute? If you assert there is nothing to relate to then it cant have any relative properties like fast or slow.




Agreed, you can see it this way .. but then it's valid in the same way to this post? Or am I wrong?



Polestar 2 said:


> Progress seems slow.




By the way, I got aware, that there was a new GeoEye-1/MAXAR image captured yesterday and by an analysis it looks like they're making progress on the port side flight deck overhang. The whole ship by now appears to be ~315 m long at this stage. 
Doesn't look like it'll get much longer if at all.


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## Deino

Three more recent ones ...

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## Deino

After several more than "not really good" images of the Type 003 aircraft carrier, here is finally again a clearer one.

(Image via A.Man/SDF)

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## ChineseTiger1986

Great, the flight deck should be at least 325 meters, or perhaps even more.

Since the US carriers are all about 333 meters long.

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## waja2000

guest 003 possible reach 90000 tons


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## Deino

Slowly the images of the Type 003 carrier are getting better again ... And as it seems, there is the hangar opening clearly visible for the first time! (Image via @j818cm/SDF)

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## Deino

Again a very blurry image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier allegedly taken on 19th May and as it seems there is some progress visible on the aft deck and to the deck extensions on the starboard side. 

(Image via @Mulong/SDF)

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## Deino

And again a new image showing the Type 003 aircraft carrier's stern seen from the riverside.

(Image via @j818cm/SDF)

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## Deino

As it seems on this latest image showing the Type 003 carrier under construction at the Jiangnan Changxing shipyard near Shanghai, the flight deck is starting to take shape. Also the Type 055 DDG seen in the lats images has left the dry dock. 

(Image via @HenriKenhmann)

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1396833398296043521

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## Deino

Two new images taken from the riverside again showing the Type 003 carrier … blurry again but at least they show a its progress for the record. 

(Images via William Lam/FB)

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## Deino

Allegedly the base part of the Type 003 carrier’s island Has been spotted under the white movable shelters behind the drydock.

added also is an estimation of this module‘s dimensions.

(Images via SINCHIKI/SDF)

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## ChineseTiger1986

40 meters is around the size of the CVN-76 & CVN-77.

The CV-16 is around 70 meters, and the CV-17 is around 60 meters.

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## ozranger

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> 40 meters is around the size of the CVN-76 & CVN-77.
> 
> The CV-16 is around 70 meters, and the CV-17 is around 60 meters.


Did the photo truly show its full length? When I first saw it at Twitter I had a feeling that it is really short, maybe too short for a carrier with conventional power.

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## lcloo

ozranger said:


> Did the photo truly show its full length? When I first saw it at Twitter I had a feeling that it is really short, maybe too short for a carrier with conventional power.


Optical trick. The fat waist makes the length looks short. Just as the low tail fins of J20 makes it look huge.

Below is the satellite photo of 002/CV17 Shandong in July 2016, 9 months away from launch in April 2017. The work progress is quite similar to 003's current status.

So, we shall be able to witness 003's launch around 2022 January to March.

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## ChineseTiger1986

ozranger said:


> Did the photo truly show its full length? When I first saw it at Twitter I had a feeling that it is really short, maybe too short for a carrier with conventional power.



Well, if you add a funnel in the middle of the island structure, then this will make the entire superstructure around 80 meters, then it is going to be even bigger than then that of the CV-16, which will make it even more improbable.

So there is only one possibility: because it is CVN-18.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1397526628452823041


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## Daniel808



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## sheik

Daniel808 said:


> View attachment 747722
> View attachment 747723



Where is the elevator on the port side? 😕


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## Deino

sheik said:


> Where is the elevator on the port side? 😕




As far as it seems there is none


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## obj 705A

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Well, if you add a funnel in the middle of the island structure, then this will make the entire superstructure around 80 meters, then it is going to be even bigger than then that of the CV-16, which will make it even more improbable.
> 
> So there is only one possibility: because it is CVN-18.


Or you know it could be just like this old drawing which is similar in dimensions.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292454107391942658


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## sheik

Deino said:


> As far as it seems there is none



It will be huge disappointment if there's no elevator on the port side...


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## ChineseTiger1986

obj 705A said:


> Or you know it could be just like this old drawing which is similar in dimensions.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292454107391942658



If the Type 003 is conventional powered, then its island structure is surely going to be longer than the Type 001.

The Type 002 got its island structure shrunk from the Type 001, then the Type 003 is going to reverse back to even longer one. Does this make sense to you?


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## obj 705A

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> If the Type 003 is conventional powered, then its island structure is surely going to be longer than the Type 001.
> 
> The Type 002 got its island structure shrunk from the Type 001, then the Type 003 is going to reverse back to even longer one. Does this make sense to you?


I'm not saying this module is only half of the base of the island or anything like that, what I'm saying is if we can't see the funnels in the current module then that just means they are currently covered with something so we can't see it, either that or the image isn't clear enough so we can't see the opening for the funnels.


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## Daniel808

sheik said:


> It will be huge disappointment if there's no elevator on the port side...



But the point is not that..

The point is, why China goes to 2 elevators instead of 3

We 100% sure that China have money & technology to add 1 elevator in their aircraft carrier. But why?





obj 705A said:


> I'm not saying this module is only half of the base of the island or anything like that, what I'm saying is if we can't see the funnels in the current module then that just means they are currently covered with something so we can't see it, either that or the image isn't clear enough so we can't see the opening for the funnels.




If that's the case, it will be a very small funnels there. Smaller than PLANS Liaoning and even PLANS Shandong.

With much bigger dimension & tonnage for CV(N)-18, it will be very fishy.

Let's wait for a few months, everything will be clear


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## lcloo

My purely speculated opinion. Two elevators, one of which will be over-sized for two J15 or one KJ600.

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## CIA Mole

003 feels like a training platform conventional powered catobar rather than full fledged nuclear supercarrier to match the US in the open seas.

Maybe it won’t carry as many j15 and thus only need 2 elevators?

What if China decides these platforms are not really in its modus operandi and decides to go with 076 drone carriers insead?


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## lcloo

Since an aircraft carrier is expected to be in service for at least 50 years, 003 is going to be in service until 2070.

Robot strike jets and fighter jets becoming a major force is a matter of time. May be after 2030, they will be a regular scene on 003 and other aircraft carriers, as well as 075 and the expected 076.

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## sheik

Daniel808 said:


> But the point is not that..
> 
> The point is, why China goes to 2 elevators instead of 3
> 
> We 100% sure that China have money & technology to add 1 elevator in their aircraft carrier. But why?



The 3rd elevator makes big sense especially when there's a 3rd catapult on that side. Moving planes across the flight deck will place a big impact to the efficiency of the operations and the performance of the airwings. Type 003 is probably not as big as Nimitz, but it's surely larger than Type 002 and there should be enough space to install the 3rd elevator. I simply don't understand it if there are only two elevators, even if each of that can take two J-15s.


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## ChineseTiger1986

obj 705A said:


> I'm not saying this module is only half of the base of the island or anything like that, what I'm saying is if we can't see the funnels in the current module then that just means they are currently covered with something so we can't see it, either that or the image isn't clear enough so we can't see the opening for the funnels.



Well, adding the funnel in the middle, then the entire island structure of the Type 003 is surely going to surpass that of Liaoning.

If without the funnel in the middle, then the island structure of the Type 003 is somewhat in between Nimitz and Ford.


sheik said:


> The 3rd elevator makes big sense especially when there's a 3rd catapult on that side. Moving planes across the flight deck will place a big impact to the efficiency of the operations and the performance of the airwings. Type 003 is probably not as big as Nimitz, but it's surely larger than Type 002 and there should be enough space to install the 3rd elevator. I simply don't understand it if there are only two elevators, even if each of that can take two J-15s.



Length wise, the Type 003 probably is slightly shorter, but it is a fatter carrier compared to the Nimitz class, probably even fatter compared to the Ford class with wider flight deck.


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## clibra

sheik said:


> It will be huge disappointment if there's no elevator on the port side...


I don't think so.
If there's any big difference between the China AC design and U.S. design, I think it's a sign of China one has a brand new feature which is supposed to surpass the U.S. one.


Daniel808 said:


> But the point is not that..
> 
> The point is, why China goes to 2 elevators instead of 3
> 
> We 100% sure that China have money & technology to add 1 elevator in their aircraft carrier. But why?


Yes, I believe something good is behind that.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398651902284517377

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## Deino

F-22Raptor said:


> China’s carriers are already dead in the water. US Army LRHW maritime strike capability has been confirmed for LRHW batteries 2 and 3 for 2025 and ‘27.



Most likely yes, but to think US carrier have a higher chance of survival is plain naive!

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## Deino

Now a clear version of the image released yesterday showing the stern and parts of the port side of the Type 003 aircraft carrier, but - as expected - IMO it does not look like a third elevator!

(Image via @louischeung_hk)

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## lcloo

Hoist for small boats. Photo of CV17 Shandong.

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## Deino

seems as if if @louischeung_hk was declared a "persona non grata" for leaking this image....

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## Deino

The Type 003 carrier again seen from an airliner ... (Image via 谈笑看世间)

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## siegecrossbow

Deino said:


> seems as if if @louischeung_hk was declared a "persona non grata" for leaking this image....
> 
> View attachment 749487



And you still do it lol... Why not send it to Pinkov and let him be the recipient of the curse?

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## Han Patriot

Deino said:


> seems as if if @louischeung_hk was declared a "persona non grata" for leaking this image....
> 
> View attachment 749487


It is ham gar chan in Cantonese, means curse your whole family to die. Lol

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399390625464733697

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## sheik

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399390625464733697



Seems no 3rd elevator is confirmed ... 😞


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## Deino



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## Polestar 2

sheik said:


> Seems no 3rd elevator is confirmed ... 😞


It just show the confident level of Chinese design for PLAN aircraft carrier.


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## Deino

Polestar 2 said:


> It just show the confident level of Chinese design for PLAN aircraft carrier.




Why is the lack of a third elevator a sign for China's "confident level" of its aircraft carrier? Or in return: The USN must be very un-confident with their design?


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## Polestar 2

Deino said:


> Why is the lack of a third elevator a sign for China's "confident level" of its aircraft carrier? Or in return: The USN must be very un-confident with their design?


Sure, China could have plant a third elevator for it but it didn't.

Of cos ,USN design is very unconfident. Look at their Gerald Ford CVN. Don't you tell me it's a success. How many exercise has it joined and declared combat ready since commission and until now ,the problem of catapult reliability still persists.

I can assure you, Type 003 will join PLAN and be combat ready ahead of Gerald Ford CVN.

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## CAPRICORN-88

_Is there a really a need for a third elevator_?


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## sheik

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _Is there a really a need for a third elevator_?



Without the 3rd elevator the planes in the hangar have to cross the flight deck to use the 3rd catapult. That will cause trouble when receiving planes in a hurry.

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## FuturePAF

Deino said:


> View attachment 749814



What’s the best estimate of the final tonnage and aircraft compliment? EMALS ready to go or steam catapult?


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## Deino

I must admit I'm surprised where images of the Type 003 carrier can be found, but Tik Tok was not a place I expected. 😳

Even if quite blurry it is so far the best image showing China's third aircraft carrier so close ...

(Image via TikTok/常来常往, however the original video has been deleted already)

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## Polestar 2

sheik said:


> Without the 3rd elevator the planes in the hangar have to cross the flight deck to use the 3rd catapult. That will cause trouble when receiving planes in a hurry.


Makes no sense. When u are using third launch pad. There is no way, the receiving area with arrestor hook can be used to recovered plane in emergency.

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## Deino

Polestar 2 said:


> Makes no sense. When u are using third launch pad. There is no way, the receiving area with arrestor hook can be used to recovered plane in emergency.
> 
> View attachment 750195




But in fact any complaints are useless and I'm sure, the PLAN had its reasons for this design ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1400372530184032260

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## vi-va

Deino said:


> But in fact any complaints are useless and I'm sure, the PLAN had its reasons for this design ...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1400372530184032260


I guess it's because of 

EMALS which significantly improved flight deck operational efficiency. Idle time cut.
Hangar and elevator operational efficiency improved.

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## waja2000

Deino said:


> I must admit I'm surprised where images of the Type 003 carrier can be found, but Tik Tok was not a place I expected. 😳
> 
> Even if quite blurry it is so far the best image showing China's third aircraft carrier so close ...
> 
> (Image via TikTok/常来常往, however the original video has been deleted already)
> View attachment 750193



I surprise the body already painted ... at lease for 1st layer

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## Polestar 2

sheik said:


> Without the 3rd elevator the planes in the hangar have to cross the flight deck to use the 3rd catapult. That will cause trouble when receiving planes in a hurry.

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## sheik

Polestar 2 said:


> Makes no sense. When u are using third launch pad. There is no way, the receiving area with arrestor hook can be used to recovered plane in emergency.
> 
> View attachment 750195



Before the actual launch, the planes need to be prepared.
To increase the size of an attack wave, which can be critical, the area after the 3rd catapult is important. It can accommodate at least three to four planes on Type 003.
One of the changes Shandong had over Liaoning is a new weapon elevator in that area such that the weapons don't have to be moved across the whole flight deck to get there.
Moving weapons is much easier compared to moving planes across the flight deck.
Then why not add an elevator for planes there?

In battle time, the deck operations are very complicated and almost a big mess. Launching, recovering, preparing, planes, weapons, etc etc, all at the same time. The efficiency is critical. And a 3rd elevator will definitely be a great help.


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## sheik

Deino said:


> But in fact any complaints are useless and I'm sure, the PLAN had its reasons for this design ...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1400372530184032260



The reason might be structure strength and $$$. The cost is operation efficiency and redundancy. It's always a compromising, but I still think it's not a good choice. I read a few articles analyzing the deck and hangar operations efficiency. If taking the efficiency of having 4 elevators as 100, having 2 may be around 70, having 3 may be 90-95. I forgot the exact numbers, but the conclusion is that having the 4th elevator is probably not worthy but having the 3rd is necessary.


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## CIA Mole

Polestar 2 said:


> Makes no sense. When u are using third launch pad. There is no way, the receiving area with arrestor hook can be used to recovered plane in emergency.
> 
> View attachment 750195



Maybe there won’t be as many jets so it don’t need that much throughput?

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## Deino

Another new one showing the stern (via (@有情绪的小乌龟 from Weibo)

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## siegecrossbow

Deino said:


> I must admit I'm surprised where images of the Type 003 carrier can be found, but Tik Tok was not a place I expected. 😳
> 
> Even if quite blurry it is so far the best image showing China's third aircraft carrier so close ...
> 
> (Image via TikTok/常来常往, however the original video has been deleted already)
> 
> View attachment 750193
> 
> View attachment 750194



Leaker is lucky if he gets tea and unlucky if he gets locked up for a few months. Since this has been shared on foreign internet, I think the latter awaits him.

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## Polestar 2

sheik said:


> Before the actual launch, the planes need to be prepared.
> To increase the size of an attack wave, which can be critical, the area after the 3rd catapult is important. It can accommodate at least three to four planes on Type 003.
> One of the changes Shandong had over Liaoning is a new weapon elevator in that area such that the weapons don't have to be moved across the whole flight deck to get there.
> Moving weapons is much easier compared to moving planes across the flight deck.
> Then why not add an elevator for planes there?
> 
> In battle time, the deck operations are very complicated and almost a big mess. Launching, recovering, preparing, planes, weapons, etc etc, all at the same time. The efficiency is critical. And a 3rd elevator will definitely be a great help.


Before the actual launch, so what plane need to recover since no plane on skies? Moving plane across the recovered pad has no implication. 

Finally, weapon elevator is different from aircraft elevator.


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## sheik

Polestar 2 said:


> Before the actual launch, so what plane need to recover since no plane on skies? Moving plane across the recovered pad has no implication.
> 
> Finally, weapon elevator is different from aircraft elevator.
> 
> View attachment 750396



In the battle time, there are always planes (fighters, AWACS, or even tankers) in the sky and they need to be recovered from time to time... And there are planes of the previous wave to be recovered too.


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## Polestar 2

sheik said:


> In the battle time, there are always planes (fighters, AWACS, or even tankers) in the sky and they need to be recovered from time to time... And there are planes of the previous wave to be recovered too.


I think you are just pick on redundant . If recovery plane is require. The third launch pad cant launch aircraft. How long do u take to shift one aircraft across the runway pad?


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## lcloo

This could be part of the island structure under fabrication in one of thhe mobile hall.

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## lcloo

sheik said:


> In the battle time, there are always planes (fighters, AWACS, or even tankers) in the sky and they need to be recovered from time to time... And there are planes of the previous wave to be recovered too.


If an aircraft is running short of fuel while the top deck of the aircraft carrier is not cleared of parked aircraft, a buddy refueling jet can be launched to fill up the empty tanks of the returning aircraft. Clearing parked aircraft from runway is not that time consuming.

I am sure there must be an SOP for emergency like this.

Also if the returning jets radio fuel shortage 5 to 10 minutes before reaching back, the buddy refuel jet would have ample time airbone and flying in circular orbit around the aircraft carrier.

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## Deino

Intersting estimation ... 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1400735115144204289

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## Daniel808

Deino said:


> Intersting estimation ...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1400735115144204289



So CVBG-18 will match Nimitz Super-Carrier size..Interesting

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Daniel808 said:


> So CVBG-18 will match Nimitz Super-Carrier size..Interesting



But much more advanced no? No date no Nimitz has AESA.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Daniel808 said:


> So CVBG-18 will match Nimitz Super-Carrier size..Interesting



The Type 003 will weigh about 90,000 - 100,000 tonnes according to the most recent US analysis, and I am wondering that people still gonna believe it is not nuclear powered?

Remember how the US media loved to overhype the obsolete Type 002, but now stay totally silent about the Type 003?

When you are truly getting stronger than them, then they will stop overhyping you, and bashing you with full of insecurities.

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## FuturePAF

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 003 will weigh about 90,000 - 100,000 tonnes according to the most recent US analysis, and I am wondering that people still gonna believe it is not nuclear powered?
> 
> Remember how the US media loved to overhype the obsolete Type 002, but now stay totally silent about the Type 003?
> 
> When you are truly getting stronger than them, then they will stop overhyping you, and bashing you with full of insecurities.



Is this design expected to be an intermediate design; to work out any design issues before and even larger Type 004? This could be were a redesign with 1 or 2 more elevators could be added.


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## samsara

FuturePAF said:


> Is this design expected to be an intermediate design; to work out any design issues before and even larger Type 004? This could be were a redesign with 1 or 2 more elevators could be added.


This is just an evolving design after the Liaoning and Shandong.

1. Size is substantially bigger than the earlier two, and be flat-top

2. Introducing the brand-new EMCAT

So, expect more changes in future, be it 004 or 005 or 006... we all have NO idea when next changes will be applied, whether or not 003 will have sibling or just stand alone. Time is the best teller. Be patient and watch calmly.

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## Daniel808

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Type 003 will weigh about 90,000 - 100,000 tonnes according to the most recent US analysis, and I am wondering that people still gonna believe it is not nuclear powered?
> 
> Remember how the US media loved to overhype the obsolete Type 002, but now stay totally silent about the Type 003?
> 
> When you are truly getting stronger than them, then they will stop overhyping you, and bashing you with full of insecurities.



I think if Type 003 AC goes to nuclear, it's a bonus.

Even if her goes to Conventionally powered it will be more than enough. With EMALS & Nimitz size a.k.a Super Carrier. That's already a huge leap for China's AC Power Projection




Because China have Fast Supply Ships to handle that (Type 901 class)





And I believe, the first four of China's Aircraft Carrier will be focused to protect Western Pacific & Hindian Ocean region from cowboy. That's enough for any Conventionally powered AC

Beside Fast Supply Ship (Type 901) ready to deploy, China have Naval Base in Djibouti and also have many friendly countries that would be happy to have China's Carrier Battle Group refuelling in their ports (like Pakistan, Iran, Srilanka, Bangladesh, Kenya, Tanzania, Seychelles, etc).

But yes, I would be happier if Type 003 AC goes to nuclear

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Daniel808 said:


> I think if Type 003 AC goes to nuclear, it's a bonus.
> 
> Even if her goes to Conventionally powered it will be more than enough.
> 
> Because China have Fast Supply Ships to handle that (Type 901class)
> View attachment 750699
> 
> 
> And I believe, the first four of China's Aircraft Carrier will be focused to protect Western Pacific & Hindian Ocean region from cowboy. That's enough for any Conventionally powered AC
> 
> Beside Fast Supply Ship (Type 901) ready to deploy, China have Naval Base in Djibouti and also have many friendly countries that would be happy to have China's Carrier Battle Group refuelling in their ports (like Pakistan, Iran, Srilanka, Bangladesh, Kenya, Tanzania, Seychelles, etc).
> 
> But yes, I would be happier if Type 003 AC goes to nuclear



I don't think China will build nuclear powered ships. They are difficult to decommissioned and not needed for China's interest which is East China Sea, South China Sea, Yellow Sea.


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## Daniel808

Tai Hai Chen said:


> I don't think China will build nuclear powered ships. They are difficult to decommissioned and not needed for China's interest which is East China Sea, South China Sea, Yellow Sea.



They already have many Nuclear powered ships (Submarines & Icebreaker) so it's not difficult for China to build Nuclear powered ships.

And for sure they will goes to Nuclear in Type 004 AC (CVN-20 and so on). That if they don't goes to Nuclear in this Type 003 AC [CV(N)-18 & 19]

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## ChineseTiger1986

Daniel808 said:


> I think if Type 003 AC goes to nuclear, it's a bonus.
> 
> Even if her goes to Conventionally powered it will be more than enough. With EMALS & Nimitz size a.k.a Super Carrier. That's already a huge leap for China's AC Power Projection
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because China have Fast Supply Ships to handle that (Type 901 class)
> View attachment 750699
> 
> 
> And I believe, the first four of China's Aircraft Carrier will be focused to protect Western Pacific & Hindian Ocean region from cowboy. That's enough for any Conventionally powered AC
> 
> Beside Fast Supply Ship (Type 901) ready to deploy, China have Naval Base in Djibouti and also have many friendly countries that would be happy to have China's Carrier Battle Group refuelling in their ports (like Pakistan, Iran, Srilanka, Bangladesh, Kenya, Tanzania, Seychelles, etc).
> 
> But yes, I would be happier if Type 003 AC goes to nuclear



The conventional power for any aircraft carrier that weighs over 80,000 tonnes will be a liability, and the nuclear power is the only option.

Many people love to argue that the Kitty Hawk class will be an exception. However, none of the Kitty Hawk class ships had weighed over 80,000 metric tons.

Those sub 80,000 metric tons Kitty Hawk class carriers were really represented the maximum size for a conventional carrier.

I think the displacement of the Type 003 is somewhere between the CVN-72 and CVN-78.

So we can safely conclude that she is well within the range of the nuclear supercarriers.

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## ozranger

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The conventional power for any aircraft carrier that weighs over 80,000 tonnes will be a liability, and the nuclear power is the only option.



Kitty Hawk has more powerful propulsion than Nimitz, 280k shp vs 260k shp. Of course they also have different maximum speeds. Nuclear powered carriers only win on much less demands for re-fuel when long range cruise is needed, but lose quite big on battle readiness.

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## samsara

*Close-Up Photo Shows China’s New Aircraft Carrier Rapidly Taking Shape*

_China's first truly indigenous carrier, which will be the third flattop for the People’s Liberation Army Navy, boasts massive capability enhancements._

*By THOMAS NEWDICK | THE WAR ZONE, 04 JUNE 2021*

Using this earlier imagery, some observers have extrapolated that the warship *will likely have a displacement greater than* the figure of 80,000-85,000 tons originally projected. This would bring it closer to the U.S. Navy’s own supercarriers, which have a displacement of around 100,000 tons.






What’s more, the Type 003 design is expected to be equipped with an *electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS)*, rather than relying on the “ski jump” ramps used on the PLAN’s two in-service carriers, the Liaoning (Type 001) and Shandong (Type 002). The use of EMALS could potentially boost sortie-generation rate on the new carrier, despite it apparently not featuring additional aircraft elevators.

*Introducing an EMALS is a significant technological challenge,* one that has faced its fair share of problems in the United States _[on the latest Gerald Ford class carrier, problematic until present day]_, but if perfected will allow the PLAN to operate larger and heavier carrier aircraft, such as fixed-wing airborne early warning (AEW) platforms, and to launch and recover existing J-15 multirole carrier fighters at heavier weights, with a significant increase in the number of sorties the carrier can generate. EMALS would also permit the carrier to launch lighter drones, a prospect that we have examined in detail in the past.

What’s clear, above all else, is the speed with which Beijing is developing its aircraft carrier capabilities. Progress on the Type 003 build has been impressive, despite the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic. Some reports predict the Type 003 could be launched next year, which would tally more or less with an unclassified February 2020 report from the *Office of Naval Intelligence [ONI]* anticipating that that the carrier could enter service in 2024.

While the Type 002 project was less ambitious, it’s still noteworthy that it was only around five years between laying the keel for the future Shandong and that vessel’s commissioning into service. *Just as important as the speed at which this was achieved is the experience that will have been gained by the China’s shipbuilding industries that are now working on the Type 003 and which will surely build more carriers in the future, too.*

Unconfirmed reports last year suggest that work on PLAN’s next carrier — *the Type 004* — was due to start soon, possibly at Dalian Shipyard in Liaoning. There are persistent rumors that this vessel will be both larger than its predecessors and will be nuclear powered, but other assessments suggest it will utilize the Type 003 design. Ultimately, however, it seems likely that nuclear power will be the PLAN’s goal.

Western reports have frequently speculated that the PLAN may eventually build a force of six aircraft carriers. On the other hand, other observers claim that Beijing ultimately plans for “10 or more” carriers, which would clearly be a much longer-term ambition.

*The introduction of catapults on the Type 003 also opens the door to embarking a fixed-wing AEW aircraft*, a prototype of which is already under test, a fact initially confirmed by photos that appeared last summer. The twin-turboprop KJ-600 is analogous to the U.S. Navy’s E-2 Hawkeye and appears superficially similar. Once fielded aboard the Type 003, the KJ-600 promises to revolutionize the way the PLAN carrier air wing operates, providing long range surveillance against air, sea, and land targets as well as battle management and networking capabilities. The PLAN already has some experience with carrier-based AEW assets, in the form of the Z-18J, a derivative of the Z-18 heavy-lift helicopter with a retractable radar antenna attached to the rear ramp.

*In its 2020 report to Congress on the Chinese military, the U.S. Department of Defense pointed to the Type 003 in particular as a major development within its planned multi-carrier force:*

_“China’s next generation of carriers will have greater endurance and a catapult system,” the report reads. “In particular, China’s aircraft carriers and planned follow-on carriers, once operational, will extend air defense coverage beyond the range of coastal and shipboard missile systems and will enable task group operations at increasingly longer ranges.”_

(…)









Close-Up Photo Shows China’s New Aircraft Carrier Rapidly Taking Shape


China's first truly indigenous carrier, which will be the third flattop for the People’s Liberation Army Navy, boasts massive capability enhancements.




www.thedrive.com

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## FuturePAF

samsara said:


> *Close-Up Photo Shows China’s New Aircraft Carrier Rapidly Taking Shape*
> 
> _China's first truly indigenous carrier, which will be the third flattop for the People’s Liberation Army Navy, boasts massive capability enhancements._
> 
> *By THOMAS NEWDICK | THE WAR ZONE, 04 JUNE 2021*
> 
> Using this earlier imagery, some observers have extrapolated that the warship *will likely have a displacement greater than* the figure of 80,000-85,000 tons originally projected. This would bring it closer to the U.S. Navy’s own supercarriers, which have a displacement of around 100,000 tons.
> 
> View attachment 750753
> 
> 
> What’s more, the Type 003 design is expected to be equipped with an *electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS)*, rather than relying on the “ski jump” ramps used on the PLAN’s two in-service carriers, the Liaoning (Type 001) and Shandong (Type 002). The use of EMALS could potentially boost sortie-generation rate on the new carrier, despite it apparently not featuring additional aircraft elevators.
> 
> *Introducing an EMALS is a significant technological challenge,* one that has faced its fair share of problems in the United States _[on the latest Gerald Ford class carrier, problematic until present day]_, but if perfected will allow the PLAN to operate larger and heavier carrier aircraft, such as fixed-wing airborne early warning (AEW) platforms, and to launch and recover existing J-15 multirole carrier fighters at heavier weights, with a significant increase in the number of sorties the carrier can generate. EMALS would also permit the carrier to launch lighter drones, a prospect that we have examined in detail in the past.
> 
> What’s clear, above all else, is the speed with which Beijing is developing its aircraft carrier capabilities. Progress on the Type 003 build has been impressive, despite the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic. Some reports predict the Type 003 could be launched next year, which would tally more or less with an unclassified February 2020 report from the *Office of Naval Intelligence [ONI]* anticipating that that the carrier could enter service in 2024.
> 
> While the Type 002 project was less ambitious, it’s still noteworthy that it was only around five years between laying the keel for the future Shandong and that vessel’s commissioning into service. *Just as important as the speed at which this was achieved is the experience that will have been gained by the China’s shipbuilding industries that are now working on the Type 003 and which will surely build more carriers in the future, too.*
> 
> Unconfirmed reports last year suggest that work on PLAN’s next carrier — *the Type 004* — was due to start soon, possibly at Dalian Shipyard in Liaoning. There are persistent rumors that this vessel will be both larger than its predecessors and will be nuclear powered, but other assessments suggest it will utilize the Type 003 design. Ultimately, however, it seems likely that nuclear power will be the PLAN’s goal.
> 
> Western reports have frequently speculated that the PLAN may eventually build a force of six aircraft carriers. On the other hand, other observers claim that Beijing ultimately plans for “10 or more” carriers, which would clearly be a much longer-term ambition.
> 
> *The introduction of catapults on the Type 003 also opens the door to embarking a fixed-wing AEW aircraft*, a prototype of which is already under test, a fact initially confirmed by photos that appeared last summer. The twin-turboprop KJ-600 is analogous to the U.S. Navy’s E-2 Hawkeye and appears superficially similar. Once fielded aboard the Type 003, the KJ-600 promises to revolutionize the way the PLAN carrier air wing operates, providing long range surveillance against air, sea, and land targets as well as battle management and networking capabilities. The PLAN already has some experience with carrier-based AEW assets, in the form of the Z-18J, a derivative of the Z-18 heavy-lift helicopter with a retractable radar antenna attached to the rear ramp.
> 
> *In its 2020 report to Congress on the Chinese military, the U.S. Department of Defense pointed to the Type 003 in particular as a major development within its planned multi-carrier force:*
> 
> _“China’s next generation of carriers will have greater endurance and a catapult system,” the report reads. “In particular, China’s aircraft carriers and planned follow-on carriers, once operational, will extend air defense coverage beyond the range of coastal and shipboard missile systems and will enable task group operations at increasingly longer ranges.”_
> 
> (…)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close-Up Photo Shows China’s New Aircraft Carrier Rapidly Taking Shape
> 
> 
> China's first truly indigenous carrier, which will be the third flattop for the People’s Liberation Army Navy, boasts massive capability enhancements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com



Once China has enough carriers for the home waters, deploying this ship and the two ski-jump carriers to Djibouti would allow China to always have at least one Carrier on patrol in the Indian Ocean at all times, to protect the SLOCs, and be more then a match for the Indian carrier battle groups.

A development to watch calmly, unless the observer is the Indian Navy.

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## Deino

Akasa said:


> Neither the "big shrimps" nor other Chinese sources are accurate.
> 
> The most reliable sources are:
> 1. David Axe
> 2. National Interest
> 3. Gordon Chang
> 4. RAJ47




By the way I cannot find Raj47's post claiming the Type 003 carrier would be a 380m monster ... can anyone re-post it?

PS ... found it

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ozranger said:


> Kitty Hawk has more powerful propulsion than Nimitz, 280k shp vs 260k shp. Of course they also have different maximum speeds. Nuclear powered carriers only win on much less demands for re-fuel when long range cruise is needed, but lose quite big on battle readiness.
> 
> View attachment 750730



That's why it's better to build conventional powered ships unless you need to cover the whole damn planet. Considering China only interests in peripheral seas, it is doubtful China will build nuclear powered ships anytime soon.

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## Deino

Oh well ... now I'm being quoted even in China/Taiwan?!! 😲

Seems as if I'm almost famous. 😅









陸003航母新進展 超近距照曝迅速成形 - 軍事


中方正加緊打造第3艘航母，以讓它加入迅速擴張的海軍。最近外洩的空前近距離照顯示，它將使中方海軍戰力躍增。而就新航母的彈射器來說，它遠優於前兩艘較小型航母的滑躍起飛飛行甲板。據《戰區》（The War Zone）網4




 www.chinatimes.com

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## sheik

Deino said:


> By the way I cannot find Raj47's post claiming the Type 003 carrier would be a 380m monster ... can anyone re-post it?
> 
> PS ... found it
> 
> View attachment 750777



I think his comments were just sarcastic. Everyone knows that Gordon Chang has been predicting China to collapse since twenty years ago. He's absolutely an icon.


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## GiantPanda

A conventional powerplant, IEP or otherwise, that is able to power a 90K+ ton carrier AND an EM catapult would be far more advanced (and revolutionary) than a nuclear reactor.

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## ChineseTiger1986

ozranger said:


> Kitty Hawk has more powerful propulsion than Nimitz, 280k shp vs 260k shp. Of course they also have different maximum speeds. Nuclear powered carriers only win on much less demands for re-fuel when long range cruise is needed, but lose quite big on battle readiness.
> 
> View attachment 750730




280,000 shp is generated by the four shafts (steam turbines).

However, the four steam turbines are powered by the twin nuclear reactors or eight boilers.

The twin A1B/A4W nuclear reactor can generate the power far beyond the eight boilers of the Kitty Hawk class.

That's why the Ford/Nimitz class ships are far more powerful than the Kitty Hawk class carriers.


GiantPanda said:


> A conventional powerplant, IEP or otherwise, that is able to power a 90K+ ton carrier AND an EM catapult would be far more advanced (and revolutionary) than a nuclear reactor.



The conventional powerplant to power the Type 003 would be technologically more difficult with less efficiency.

So it is nearly impossible for the 90,000+ tonnes Type 003 to be conventionally powered.

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## ozranger

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> 280,000 shp is generated by the four shafts (steam turbines).
> 
> However, the four steam turbines are powered by the twin nuclear reactors or eight boilers.
> 
> The twin A1B/A4W nuclear reactor can generate the power far beyond the eight boilers of the Kitty Hawk class.
> 
> That's why the Ford/Nimitz class ships are far more powerful than the Kitty Hawk class carriers.
> 
> 
> The conventional powerplant to power the Type 003 would be technologically more difficult with less efficiency.
> 
> So it is nearly impossible for the 90,000+ tonnes Type 003 to be conventionally powered.


Steam boilers can generate steam in higher temperature with greater pressure than that generated by the second loops of the reactors. 

Boilers heat the water directly
Reactors heat the water indirectly with 2 isolated loops to avoid leaks of radiation
That makes the difference on the power output between them.

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## Deino

Well, well 😲... slowly the images are getting better and more details can be seen on the Type 003 aircraft carrier including the island.

(Images via @谈笑看世间)

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## Deino

PS ... and these two openings look like openings for exhaust pipes from the engine room to the chimney?!
So by my understanding, we see as expected not a CVN but a conventional carrier.

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## retaxis

FuturePAF said:


> Once China has enough carriers for the home waters, deploying this ship and the two ski-jump carriers to Djibouti would allow China to always have at least one Carrier on patrol in the Indian Ocean at all times, to protect the SLOCs, and be more then a match for the Indian carrier battle groups.
> 
> A development to watch calmly, unless the observer is the Indian Navy.


If China can build one, they can quickly build a hundred that is the chinese way.

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## FuturePAF

retaxis said:


> If China can build one, they can quickly build a hundred that is the chinese way.



They are also frugal with their resources as well as not overstretching. They may have a number in mind and if the Indian Ocean region is not seen as a priority, they may not commit to maintaining a carrier battle group presence in the region. Considering they want to protect their own SLOCs, they probably will keep at least a limited force in the Indian Ocean region, while the bulk of the fleet is in the Western Pacific to protect the homeland.


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## waja2000

FuturePAF said:


> They are also frugal with their resources as well as not overstretching. They may have a number in mind and if the Indian Ocean region is not seen as a priority, they may not commit to maintaining a carrier battle group presence in the region. Considering they want to protect their own SLOCs, they probably will keep at least a limited force in the Indian Ocean region, while the bulk of the fleet is in the Western Pacific to protect the homeland.



I think 001 AC will decom around 2030 after 004 AC completed.


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## obj 705A

so now the flight deck is mostly finished, it's dimensions are either equal to or smaller than that of Kitty hawk, the exhaust openings are also visible now. do we still have people who will insist this is a 95k tonne monsterous nuclear powered carrier? usually people used to say "hey let's wait" however now that it is mostly taken shape we don't need to wait anymore, the type 003 is a 75k tonne CV.


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## Daniel808

waja2000 said:


> I think 001 AC will decom around 2030 after 004 AC completed.



Type 001 AC (CVBG-16) will be on Active Duty until 2040-2050 at least.

Type 001 & 002 AC (CVBG-16 & 17) is still deadly for any medium countries with 50 unit 4.5th Gen Heavy fighter ready to deploy with full load. It's more than enough to guard East & South China sea.

Meanwhile Type 003 AC (CVBG-18 & 19) will be focused to guard Western Pacific & Hindian Ocean.

While Type 004 CVN (CVBG-20, 21, and so on) will be focused on far waters beyond that

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## casual

obj 705A said:


> so now the flight deck is mostly finished, it's dimensions are either equal to or smaller than that of Kitty hawk, the exhaust openings are also visible now. do we still have people who will insist this is a 95k tonne monsterous nuclear powered carrier? usually people used to say "hey let's wait" however now that it is mostly taken shape we don't need to wait anymore, the type 003 is a 75k tonne CV.


Judging from the size, it's at least 80k tonne or more.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

waja2000 said:


> I think 001 AC will decom around 2030 after 004 AC completed.



A carrier typically has a life span of 50 years, if not more. Hell, Nimitz is still in service since mid 70s. 001 only entered service in 2012.

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## obj 705A

casual said:


> Judging from the size, it's at least 80k tonne or more.


it's width and length is either equal to or smaller than that of Kitty hawk, this is not just my own opinion but that is a fact, Kitty hawk was around 75k metric tonne yet you still insist that it will be "at least 80k tonne" thus implying it will probably be larger than 80k perhaps closer to 85k.. come on man it's time to admit it.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

obj 705A said:


> it's width and length is either equal to or smaller than that of Kitty hawk, this is not just my own opinion but that is a fact, Kitty hawk was around 75k metric tonne yet you still insist that it will be "at least 80k tonne" thus implying it will probably be larger than 80k perhaps closer to 85k.. come on man it's time to admit it.



Yes I think it's about 70 to 75 thousand tons.


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## FairAndUnbiased

sheik said:


> Before the actual launch, the planes need to be prepared.
> To increase the size of an attack wave, which can be critical, the area after the 3rd catapult is important. It can accommodate at least three to four planes on Type 003.
> One of the changes Shandong had over Liaoning is a new weapon elevator in that area such that the weapons don't have to be moved across the whole flight deck to get there.
> Moving weapons is much easier compared to moving planes across the flight deck.
> Then why not add an elevator for planes there?
> 
> In battle time, the deck operations are very complicated and almost a big mess. Launching, recovering, preparing, planes, weapons, etc etc, all at the same time. The efficiency is critical. And a 3rd elevator will definitely be a great help.



in actual combat I think the operations are mostly on the flight deck. refueling isn't done in the hangar.


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## casual

obj 705A said:


> it's width and length is either equal to or smaller than that of Kitty hawk, this is not just my own opinion but that is a fact, Kitty hawk was around 75k metric tonne yet you still insist that it will be "at least 80k tonne" thus implying it will probably be larger than 80k perhaps closer to 85k.. come on man it's time to admit it.


Kitty hawk is 81k tonnes. And how is it smaller then kitty hawk? The waterline measurements point to a carrier closer to Nimitz class and bigger then kitty hawk. Anyways, arguing this is pretty pointless. Just wait for finished product.

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## obj 705A

casual said:


> Kitty hawk is 81k tonnes. And how is it smaller then kitty hawk? The waterline measurements point to a carrier closer to Nimitz class and bigger then kitty hawk. Anyways, arguing this is pretty pointless. Just wait for finished product.


we don't need to wait anymore because it already took shape and the dimensions will not change from what it is now and the dimensions have already been calculated. 

kitty hawk is less than 80k tonne, it is somewhere around 75k tonne. the 81k figure that you mention is the long ton that the Americans use which is smaller than the metric tonne that the rest of the world uses. 

the waterline length is 300 meters for kitty hawk and type 003, which is far much smaller than the 316 meters of the nimitz, width of all these however is all the same. the flight deck length of kitty hawk is 325, length of the type 003's flight deck is estimated at 316 or at best it will be the same as the kitty hawk length, these are not just my own estimations these are the undeniable facts.


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## ZeEa5KPul

obj 705A said:


> we don't need to wait anymore because it already took shape and the dimensions will not change from what it is now and the dimensions have already been calculated.
> 
> kitty hawk is less than 80k tonne, it is somewhere around 75k tonne. the 81k figure that you mention is the long ton that the Americans use which is smaller than the metric tonne that the rest of the world uses.
> 
> the waterline length is 300 meters for kitty hawk and type 003, which is far much smaller than the 316 meters of the nimitz, width of all these however is all the same. the flight deck length of kitty hawk is 325, length of the type 003's flight deck is estimated at 316 or at best it will be the same as the kitty hawk length, these are not just my own estimations these are the undeniable facts.


Where are you getting these measurements?


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## Polestar 2

Daniel808 said:


> I think if Type 003 AC goes to nuclear, it's a bonus.
> 
> Even if her goes to Conventionally powered it will be more than enough. With EMALS & Nimitz size a.k.a Super Carrier. That's already a huge leap for China's AC Power Projection
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because China have Fast Supply Ships to handle that (Type 901 class)
> View attachment 750699
> 
> 
> And I believe, the first four of China's Aircraft Carrier will be focused to protect Western Pacific & Hindian Ocean region from cowboy. That's enough for any Conventionally powered AC
> 
> Beside Fast Supply Ship (Type 901) ready to deploy, China have Naval Base in Djibouti and also have many friendly countries that would be happy to have China's Carrier Battle Group refuelling in their ports (like Pakistan, Iran, Srilanka, Bangladesh, Kenya, Tanzania, Seychelles, etc).
> 
> But yes, I would be happier if Type 003 AC goes to nuclear


Nuclear or not, CVN fleet still need these giant replenishment ship tag along the fleet.

There are more than 5000 crew onboard Nimitz and nearly 3000 crew onboard CV-16 Liaoning. The ration onboard can only last for 30 days. Faster depleted than the fuel consume by the ship. RAS are common for aircraft carrier.

Nuclear is more critical for SSBN since they have little crew. 100 plus or less. The ratio onboard can last more than a hundred days. Conventional didn't make an aircraft carrier less ocean going than a nuclear one. Nuclear has unlimited range but the food store onboard aircraft carrier are limited.

Let me ask you all, which ballistic missile launch submarine are conventional? (Besides the NK one due to technology difficulty and the Type 032 testbed one by PLAN)


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## CAPRICORN-88

_China initially planned to have only 6 but in the face with increasing threats instigated by USA, it will expands exponentially to says a minumum of says10. 

And they have justification for that. Thanks to 5 eyes nation headed by USA.

And everybody has forgotten about the Russian Navy which may be soon be constucting its own Aircraft Carriers as well.  _

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## sheik

Now it's clear that Type 003 is the Chinese version of Kitty Hawk. The dimension and displacement will all be close to Kitty Hawk. The original design was aiming Kitty Hawk, a 80K tonner with conventional propulsion, even though the design was changed in the middle to make sue of EMALS. It's not a Nimitz or Ford probably because the designers were kind of conservative and preferred smaller steps in advancing their skills in building those monsters. I believe Type 004 is aiming Ford and will emerge in several years. A 2nd Type 003 may be built first though.

China is not US that can waste time and $ on Zumwalt and LCS and can wait for years for the Ford to be combat ready. Many decisions were made for PLA to be prepared for a war that could happen at any time or even tomorrow, literally, thanks to Taiwan. There were many examples, such as the building of the last two Type 053H3 after the 1st Type 054, the 2nd batch of 052C with 052D almost ready, even CV-17 was added when the original design of Type 003 was almost finished. Many decisions did not seem to be wise if reviewed ten or twenty years later, but it made sense for the pressure and challenge PLA have been facing since 1996 when Taiwan took a big step toward independence and the US was backing that up with two carrier strike groups deployed nearby. To PLA, the combat readiness of the ship is more important than how advanced the technology is.

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## Daniel808

obj 705A said:


> kitty hawk is less than 80k tonne, it is somewhere around 75k tonne. the 81k figure that you mention is the long ton that the Americans use which is smaller than the metric tonne that the rest of the world uses.




Since when Normal tonnes number smaller then Long tonnes number?

Kitty hawk displacement when in full load configuration :
Long Tonnes : 81k
Normal Tonnes : 83k


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## sheik

sheik said:


> Now it's clear that Type 003 is the Chinese version of Kitty Hawk. The dimension and displacement will all be close to Kitty Hawk. The original design was aiming Kitty Hawk, a 80K tonner with conventional propulsion, even though the design was changed in the middle to make sue of EMALS. It's not a Nimitz or Ford probably because the designers were kind of conservative and preferred smaller steps in advancing their skills in building those monsters. I believe Type 004 is aiming Ford and will emerge in several years. A 2nd Type 003 may be built first though.
> 
> China is not US that can waste time and $ on Zumwalt and LCS and can wait for years for the Ford to be combat ready. Many decisions were made for PLA to be prepared for a war that could happen at any time or even tomorrow, literally, thanks to Taiwan. There were many examples, such as the building of the last two Type 053H3 after the 1st Type 054, the 2nd batch of 052C with 052D almost ready, even CV-17 was added when the original design of Type 003 was almost finished. Many decisions did not seem to be wise if reviewed ten or twenty years later, but it made sense for the pressure and challenge PLA have been facing since 1996 when Taiwan took a big step toward independence and the US was backing that up with two carrier strike groups deployed nearby. To PLA, the combat readiness of the ship is more important than how advanced the technology is.



The smaller than expected deck size might be the major reason why there is no 3rd elevator on the port side. According to the settings of the game Carrier Deck, elevators can be used to park the planes but cannot be used to prepare the planes. If that's true, an elevator, especially a big one that can lift two planes a time, does take too much space in that small area (aft on the port side).

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## casual

obj 705A said:


> we don't need to wait anymore because it already took shape and the dimensions will not change from what it is now and the dimensions have already been calculated.
> 
> kitty hawk is less than 80k tonne, it is somewhere around 75k tonne. the 81k figure that you mention is the long ton that the Americans use which is smaller than the metric tonne that the rest of the world uses.
> 
> the waterline length is 300 meters for kitty hawk and type 003, which is far much smaller than the 316 meters of the nimitz, width of all these however is all the same. the flight deck length of kitty hawk is 325, length of the type 003's flight deck is estimated at 316 or at best it will be the same as the kitty hawk length, these are not just my own estimations these are the undeniable facts.


yo, long tonne is heavier then metric ton. 81k long tonne is roughly 82.3k metric ton.

And your measurements don't match with what I've been seeing. Since major construction havent finished yet, don't compare flight deck area and instead focus on waterline area. The waterline area of 003 is somewhere between ford and nimitz. def bigger then kitty.


sheik said:


> Now it's clear that Type 003 is the Chinese version of Kitty Hawk. The dimension and displacement will all be close to Kitty Hawk. The original design was aiming Kitty Hawk, a 80K tonner with conventional propulsion, even though the design was changed in the middle to make sue of EMALS. It's not a Nimitz or Ford probably because the designers were kind of conservative and preferred smaller steps in advancing their skills in building those monsters. I believe Type 004 is aiming Ford and will emerge in several years. A 2nd Type 003 may be built first though.
> 
> China is not US that can waste time and $ on Zumwalt and LCS and can wait for years for the Ford to be combat ready. Many decisions were made for PLA to be prepared for a war that could happen at any time or even tomorrow, literally, thanks to Taiwan. There were many examples, such as the building of the last two Type 053H3 after the 1st Type 054, the 2nd batch of 052C with 052D almost ready, even CV-17 was added when the original design of Type 003 was almost finished. Many decisions did not seem to be wise if reviewed ten or twenty years later, but it made sense for the pressure and challenge PLA have been facing since 1996 when Taiwan took a big step toward independence and the US was backing that up with two carrier strike groups deployed nearby. To PLA, the combat readiness of the ship is more important than how advanced the technology is.


even if 003 is the same weight as kitty hawk, EMALS and electric propulsion system on the 003 is much smaller and lighter then the steam catapult and propulsion systems on the kitty hawk. 003 will have more room to fit other equipment.

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## Deino



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## obj 705A

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Where are you getting these measurements?


The images that we had like ages ago, people at that time (memebers here and other netzins) made measurements of it and found the exact waterline dimensions, this is nothing new. The only thing they are not sure of now is the flight deck length because it will either be 316 or 325 and most seem to be leaning to 316.


casual said:


> yo, long tonne is heavier then metric ton. 81k long tonne is roughly 82.3k metric ton.
> 
> And your measurements don't match with what I've been seeing. Since major construction havent finished yet, don't compare flight deck area and instead focus on waterline area. The waterline area of 003 is somewhere between ford and nimitz. def bigger then kitty.


The tonnage of the kitty hawk is less than 80k metric tonne, @ChineseTiger1986 and some other member talked about this like ages ago, I couldn't find the page here where they talked about it. I'm not sure if its called long ton or whatever but the point is that the unit the US uses to describe the tonnage of the kitty hawk is the reason why it is described as being 80k , if they use metric tonne it is less than 80k.


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## Deino

Indeed - as posted by @louischeung_hk - this is the so far clearest image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier.

I tried to rotate the original one a bit so that identifying details is a bit easier. 😖

(Image via @捣蛋来啊 from Weibo）

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## waja2000

base on new phone seems 003 can launch before year end.


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## Deino

waja2000 said:


> base on new phone seems 003 can launch before year end.




Actually even if I'm MOST impressed by the latest progress, there is still much work ahead and comparing with the 002 carrier, 003 is broadly comparable to the Shandong in June 2016 or about 10 months before launch. So IMO launch 2021 is not impossible but highly unlikely:






But let us wage a guess ... What do you think comes next? ... and as always any corrections are appreciated.

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## nang2

Deino said:


> Indeed - as posted by @louischeung_hk - this is the so far clearest image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier.
> 
> I tried to rotate the original one a bit so that identifying details is a bit easier. 😖
> 
> (Image via @捣蛋来啊 from Weibo）
> 
> View attachment 751413
> View attachment 751414


Very cool. Can see where the two catapults are.


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## Deino

nang2 said:


> Very cool. Can see where the two catapults are.




IMO here


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## ZeEa5KPul

Deino said:


> Actually even if I'm MOST impressed by the latest progress, there is still much work ahead and comparing with the 002 carrier, 003 is broadly comparable to the Shandong in June 2016 or about 10 months before launch. So IMO launch 2021 is not impossible but highly unlikely:
> 
> View attachment 751434
> 
> 
> But let us wage a guess ... What do you think comes next? ... and as always any corrections are appreciated.
> 
> View attachment 751436


_Shandong _wasn't built using supermodules. 003's assembly should be faster since there are fewer pieces to fit together.

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## Deino

ZeEa5KPul said:


> _Shandong _wasn't built using supermodules. 003's assembly should be faster since there are fewer pieces to fit together.




Not necessarily ... for the first phase this is surely valid, but if you look how the deck modules and island was installed at the 002 - and now 003 - it is quite comparable.


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## waja2000

003 Latest image 
This month seems able to complete deck module, next month should be island

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## Deino

waja2000 said:


> 003 Latest image
> This month seems able to complete deck module, next month should be island
> View attachment 751848




Indeed, the deck seems almost complete including the part in front of the aft elevator and the angled deck

via:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402626684143247360
Puzzles via @ Kejora / SDF!

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## clibra

100,000 tons

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## Deino

Anyone with an idea why there is already a huge flag in front of the Type 003 carrier?

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## waja2000

Deino said:


> Anyone with an idea why there is already a huge flag in front of the Type 003 carrier?



just flag at wall of shipyard not ship


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## casual

Deino said:


> Anyone with an idea why there is already a huge flag in front of the Type 003 carrier?
> 
> View attachment 753693


To promote nationalism


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## Polestar 2

casual said:


> To promote nationalism





Deino said:


> Anyone with an idea why there is already a huge flag in front of the Type 003 carrier?
> 
> View attachment 753693








So that american dive bomber can pinpoint it.

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## Deino

This should end the discussion on CV vs CVN due to the clearly visible funnel!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Deino said:


> This should end the discussion on CV vs CVN due to the clearly visible funnel!
> 
> View attachment 753792
> View attachment 753793
> View attachment 753794



CV is cheaper to service and deactivate. Makes sense it is CV not CVN.


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## obj 705A

Tai Hai Chen said:


> CV is cheaper to service and deactivate. Makes sense it is CV not CVN.


IMO it's highly unlikely it had anything to do with money since China has all the money they want to spend and we do know they will probably build a CVN in this decade, instead it was probably just for the sake of time because the PLAN needs to have carriers as soon as possible, if they would have made the type 003 a CVN then it would have taken longer to finish and fix any possible problems that may arise due to all the new technology being introduced.

In fact speeking of introduction of new technology the type 003 is already almost 100% different from the Shandong, it's a completely new kind of ship so while they could have definitely made it nuclear that would have just complicated things even further and with the rather deteriorating geopolitical situation with the US the PLAN probably decided they don't have the luxury of wasting time by making the building of the new carrier more complex than it already is.

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## ZeEa5KPul

It's good that we debunked the nuclear 003 idea, but there are plenty of other ideas - believed by many self-appointed "China experts" - that also need debunking. Like the idea that China would build a nuclear-powered icebreaker before it builds a nuclear carrier. That's always struck me as a ridiculous idea; like if I were going to design a race car I should first design a motorcycle. They've got nothing to do with each other.

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## Deino

By the way, besides all that more than understandable focus on the dry dock and the Type 003's construction, but do we have any recent information, what's currently going on at the construction site, where the modules have been prepared all the years before?

After a quick search this - 22. December 2020 - was the most recent image in my collection.


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## kungfugymnast

obj 705A said:


> IMO it's highly unlikely it had anything to do with money since China has all the money they want to spend and we do know they will probably build a CVN in this decade, instead it was probably just for the sake of time because the PLAN needs to have carriers as soon as possible, if they would have made the type 003 a CVN then it would have taken longer to finish and fix any possible problems that may arise due to all the new technology being introduced.
> 
> In fact speeking of introduction of new technology the type 003 is already almost 100% different from the Shandong, it's a completely new kind of ship so while they could have definitely made it nuclear that would have just complicated things even further and with the rather deteriorating geopolitical situation with the US the PLAN probably decided they don't have the luxury of wasting time by making the building of the new carrier more complex than it already is.



You are absolutely right. Type 003 is home defense aircraft carriers and China needed at least 4 ships ASAP complete with fighters squadrons to protect its fleet in South China Sea and East China Sea with furthest operation up to entrance of Pacific Ocean in case of war where China's current strategy is to hold the line, destroy incoming enemy fighters, bombers, ships before they get into effective range of friendly ships & shore. 

China doesn't have much time therefore they chose conventional first then only nuclear powered on newer ships for true offensive operations. Type 001 & 002 might be switched role to helicopter & VSTOL carriers like British Queen Elizabeth aircraft carriers.

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## Polestar 2

kungfugymnast said:


> You are absolutely right. Type 003 is home defense aircraft carriers and China needed at least 4 ships ASAP complete with fighters squadrons to protect its fleet in South China Sea and East China Sea with furthest operation up to entrance of Pacific Ocean in case of war where China's current strategy is to hold the line, destroy incoming enemy fighters, bombers, ships before they get into effective range of friendly ships & shore.
> 
> China doesn't have much time therefore they chose conventional first then only nuclear powered on newer ships for true offensive operations. Type 001 & 002 might be switched role to helicopter & VSTOL carriers like British Queen Elizabeth aircraft carriers.


The times of carrier vs carrier are over the moment WWII ended. Aircraft carrier nowadays are just allowed u to project air defense and certain precise surface attack over the continent. It is important for bigger countries with important worldwide trade route to protect against smaller and proxy interference. If China want to sink a aircraft carrier or major warship. The first selected choice will be ASBM.

If China is really urgent for aircraft carrier. They would have build 3-4 simultaneously in Dalian and Jiangnan shipyard.


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## waja2000

kungfugymnast said:


> You are absolutely right. Type 003 is home defense aircraft carriers and China needed at least 4 ships ASAP complete with fighters squadrons to protect its fleet in South China Sea and East China Sea with furthest operation up to entrance of Pacific Ocean in case of war where China's current strategy is to hold the line, destroy incoming enemy fighters, bombers, ships before they get into effective range of friendly ships & shore.
> 
> China doesn't have much time therefore they chose conventional first then only nuclear powered on newer ships for true offensive operations. Type 001 & 002 might be switched role to helicopter & VSTOL carriers like British Queen Elizabeth aircraft carriers.



Also 003 operation mostly in china water & South china Sea, distance not too far, 1 year just need re-fuel 2-3 time, cost refuel each year should be not more than 100 million rmb


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## casual

waja2000 said:


> Also 003 operation mostly in china water & South china Sea, distance not too far, 1 year just need re-fuel 2-3 time, cost refuel each year should be not more than 100 million rmb


sounds around right. cheaper then the cost to refuel a nuclear reactor after 20 years.


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## ZeEa5KPul

casual said:


> sounds around right. cheaper then the cost to refuel a nuclear reactor after 20 years.


And decommissioning costs as well.


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## kungfugymnast

Polestar 2 said:


> The times of carrier vs carrier are over the moment WWII ended. Aircraft carrier nowadays are just allowed u to project air defense and certain precise surface attack over the continent. It is important for bigger countries with important worldwide trade route to protect against smaller and proxy interference. If China want to sink a aircraft carrier or major warship. The first selected choice will be ASBM.
> 
> If China is really urgent for aircraft carrier. They would have build 3-4 simultaneously in Dalian and Jiangnan shipyard.



Future carrier vs carrier, the fighters would have ability to fly long range to take the fight further away from fleet. China's policy now is aiming for combat radius. Type 003 fighters wings, the J-15B/D has better aerodynamic and large fuel tank allowing it to cruise at higher speed and exceed further combat radius. China would build 3-4 newer carriers simultaneously after Type 003 proven successful on the EMALS.

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## waja2000

kungfugymnast said:


> Future carrier vs carrier, the fighters would have ability to fly long range to take the fight further away from fleet. China's policy now is aiming for combat radius. Type 003 fighters wings, the J-15B/D has better aerodynamic and large fuel tank allowing it to cruise at higher speed and exceed further combat radius. China would build 3-4 newer carriers simultaneously after Type 003 proven successful on the EMALS.



I believe 5 Gen stealth Fighter (J-31 or J-35) will join 003 too.


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## kungfugymnast

waja2000 said:


> Also 003 operation mostly in china water & South china Sea, distance not too far, 1 year just need re-fuel 2-3 time, cost refuel each year should be not more than 100 million rmb



Yes you're right. China military analysis predicted US fleet would come from South China Sea & East China Sea. If China had at least 6 Type 003, they could take Guam and few islands near entrance of Pacific Ocean to hold line of defence there.

Their intrusion lately took off from airbase in Chengdu then slowed down to 29*knots seems like they are projecting airdrop in Guam as the distance match. Guess they intended to take Guam and hold like there with carrier fleet should there be war with US


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## kungfugymnast

waja2000 said:


> I believe 5 Gen stealth Fighter (J-31 or J-35) will join 003 too.



It's already underway


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## Deino

The first clearer image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier's island.

(Image via @supercatknight)

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## Polestar 2

kungfugymnast said:


> Future carrier vs carrier, the fighters would have ability to fly long range to take the fight further away from fleet. China's policy now is aiming for combat radius. Type 003 fighters wings, the J-15B/D has better aerodynamic and large fuel tank allowing it to cruise at higher speed and exceed further combat radius. China would build 3-4 newer carriers simultaneously after Type 003 proven successful on the EMALS.


Can fighter jet outrange ASBM? Theoritically, ASBM warhead can even fit on DF-31A to have a globe wide warship attack.

The only reason why carrier needed is for superpower to exert air control and offense far from shore against smaller nation and to project power for sea trade route.

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## sheik

According to 瀚海狼山, the decision to get rid of the 3rd elevator on Type 003 was to make it combat ready ASAP because the crew would be familiar with the deck operations currently conducted on Liaoning and Shandong.

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## waja2000

sheik said:


> According to 瀚海狼山, the decision to get rid of the 3rd elevator on Type 003 was to make it combat ready ASAP because the crew would be familiar with the deck operations currently conducted on Liaoning and Shandong.



If correct, Than decision more like short sight. it can use 2 elevator first, 3nd elevator can be familiar later, since AC will use 40 year, PLAN can take there time for learn 3nd elevator.
3 elevator it also can be good training and experience for later AC too.


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## obj 705A

waja2000 said:


> If correct, Than decision more like short sight. it can use 2 elevator first, 3nd elevator can be familiar later, since AC will use 40 year, PLAN can take there time for learn 3nd elevator.
> 3 elevator it also can be good training and experience for later AC too.


I'm sure this wasn't just one guy's dicision and instead it was made after discussions between all the generals and shipbuilders about what will be their strategies and what they can or can't build. 
frankly I believe many (or perhaps most) of us here have significantly underestimated just how difficult it is to build a carrier. 
the PLAN went as conservative as possible when building the CV except the choice of the catapult type (ie: chosing EMALS instead of steam) in all other aspects they were conservative, they chose conventional instead of nuclear propulsion, 3 instead of 4 catapults, size around that of Kitty Hawk instead of going all the way to 100k tonne, 2 instead of 3 elevators. 
clearly building an upgraded CV from what is already present is far much more complex and difficult than what we thought.

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## Polestar 2

sheik said:


> According to 瀚海狼山, the decision to get rid of the 3rd elevator on Type 003 was to make it combat ready ASAP because the crew would be familiar with the deck operations currently conducted on Liaoning and Shandong.


I don't believe it. Why not opt for ramp instead of catapult? It can be combat ready even asap than anybody can think of. Most likely another untrusted post.

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## GiantPanda

Getting rid of the 3rd elevator for crew familiarity is nonsensical. The true reason is the practical cons of a third elevator overrode the pros on the Type 003. 

Having more elevators is not always better. The USS Ford would not have gone down to three from four on the Nimitz and Kitty Hawk if it were. 

The lift mechanism eats into space and structure.

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## Deino

These latest images give a first full impression of the Type 003 carrier's outer shape of as well as any final doubts on a third catapult on the waist deck are eliminated .
So next steps are closure of the deck and the installation of the island.

(Images via @谈笑看世间）

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1407710340411006977

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## casual

Deino said:


> These latest images give a first full impression of the Type 003 carrier's outer shape of as well as any final doubts on a third catapult on the waist deck are eliminated .
> So next steps are closure of the deck and the installation of the island.
> 
> (Images via @谈笑看世间）
> 
> View attachment 755846
> View attachment 755847
> View attachment 755848
> View attachment 755849


making good progress. I think this is building faster then 002.


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## Deino

And the puzzle is nearing completion ... if I'm not mistaken, then the last two front segments for the angled deck are already prepared and so in a certain way after these two parts, the missing middle panels of the flight deck and the island, the ship is structurally finished.

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## nang2

Deino said:


> And the puzzle is nearing completion ... if I'm not mistaken, then the last two front segments for the angled deck are already prepared and so in a certain way after these two parts, the missing middle panels of the flight deck and the island, the ship is structurally finished.
> 
> View attachment 755904


I don't think you are mistaken. The catapult grooves on these two last pieces line up pretty well for the angled deck.


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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1408354762945404933

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## waja2000

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1408354762945404933



News said island will install before July.

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## Globenim

GiantPanda said:


> Getting rid of the 3rd elevator for crew familiarity is nonsensical. The true reason is the practical cons of a third elevator overrode the pros on the Type 003.
> 
> Having more elevators is not always better. The USS Ford would not have gone down to three from four on the Nimitz and Kitty Hawk if it were.
> 
> The lift mechanism eats into space and structure.


Size and doctrine also matter as well. Lifts can be sized very differently and depending on the doctrine and craft, they can carry one, two or in future maybe three launch vehicles at once, so fixed numbers and space on a elevator doesnt convert straight into catapult utilization

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## Deino

If true it would be simply wow 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1408668224892260352

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## GiantPanda

Deino said:


> If true it would be simply wow
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1408668224892260352



The whole thing was assembled separately and concurrently with the main hull and then just lifted into place when both are ready.

Islands for US carriers are installed the same way. Pretty nice piece of engineering and planning.

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## Deino

GiantPanda said:


> The whole thing was assembled separately and concurrently with the main hull and then just lifted into place when both are ready.
> 
> Islands for US carriers are installed the same way. Pretty nice piece of engineering and planning.




Yes for sure but I did not expect it already so soon.

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## samsara

Deino said:


> If true it would be simply wow
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1408668224892260352


Expect the picture to circulate in next 2 or 3 days.

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## sheik

Deino said:


> If true it would be simply wow
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1408668224892260352



It beat everyone's expectation ... 
Simply WOW!

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## obj 705A

it will definitly be launched in this year within the next few months (not near the end of this year) , they probably already have the 2,4 or so large modules that are needed to close the two holes pre-built so closing them probably wouldn't require more than 15-30 days, installing the catapults would take few days and then all that is left is painting it.

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## iLION12345_1

The Chinese are literally building this thing so fast that the progress is visible in real time, every time I see a new photo after a few days there’s more progress on it than one would expect in a month…

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## waja2000

obj 705A said:


> it will definitly be launched in this year within the next few months (not near the end of this year) , they probably already have the 2,4 or so large modules that are needed to close the two holes pre-built so closing them probably wouldn't require more than 15-30 days, installing the catapults would take few days and then all that is left is painting it.



news said 003 will launch on August, i guest possible before 1/10 independent day too
installing the catapults i believe will install during 2 year retrofit time

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## SpaceMan18

iLION12345_1 said:


> The Chinese are literally building this thing so fast that the progress is visible in real time, every time I see a new photo after a few days there’s more progress on it than one would expect in a month…




Cause they walk the walk unlike our kind who all do is talk the talk

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## Daniel808

iLION12345_1 said:


> The Chinese are literally building this thing so fast that the progress is visible in real time, every time I see a new photo after a few days there’s more progress on it than one would expect in a month…



Their Shipyard working Non-Stop 24x7, day and night








*(Images via 江南造船吧)*



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1408632451476250626

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## jaybird

Daniel808 said:


> Their Shipyard working Non-Stop 24x7, day and night
> View attachment 756914
> View attachment 756913
> 
> *(Images via 江南造船吧)*
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1408632451476250626




This post just prove China is using ethnic Uyghur to build Type-003 non stop 24X7!

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1408986627641286660

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## Deino

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1408986627641286660




And now?


----------



## Daniel808

Deino said:


> And now?
> 
> View attachment 757040



The island?


----------



## Deino

Daniel808 said:


> The island?




Allegedly I was wrong and it is from a civil vessel close by.

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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409157069278650376

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## nang2

JSCh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409157069278650376


A month old pictures


----------



## LKJ86

Via @坦克装甲车辆杂志社 from Weibo

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## Deino

Only a minor update on the Type 003's progress today ... the island is still not installed (see image below, above is an older one from 4th June)!

(Image via SINCHIKI/SDF)

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## Deino

Tatatatata ... the island has been installed!

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## nang2

Deino said:


> Tatatatata ... the island has been installed!
> 
> View attachment 757770
> View attachment 757771
> 
> View attachment 757773


Nice! Looking forward to the ground shot pictures.

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## ZeEa5KPul

Pinkov logic: I saw two pictures of a J-15 using the test steam catapult vs. one picture using the electromagnetic catapult. Therefore, 003 uses steam catapults. QED.

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## jaybird

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Pinkov logic: I saw two pictures of a J-15 using the test steam catapult vs. one picture using the electromagnetic catapult. Therefore, 003 uses steam catapults. QED.



Man... Pinkov looks so old now. He was once the favorite butt of the joke for Chinese military enthusiasts
for a long time.

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## Polestar 2

Deino said:


> Tatatatata ... the island has been installed!
> 
> View attachment 757770
> View attachment 757771
> 
> View attachment 757773


The island definitively needs to be install by today. Because tomorrow will be 1st of July, to commerate the CCP party 100 years old birthday.

Maybe you will see a China flag on top of island on 1st of July.


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## Deino

Ok ... now it is confirmed and so these are the first clear images of the installed island on the Type 003 aircraft carrier. 

(Image via Tieba)

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## Polestar 2

Deino said:


> Ok ... now it is confirmed and so these are the first clear images of the installed island on the Type 003 aircraft carrier.
> 
> (Image via Tieba)
> 
> 
> View attachment 757980
> 
> View attachment 757981
> 
> View attachment 757982


No back viewing room from the bridge?


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## Deino

Polestar 2 said:


> No back viewing room from the bridge?




IMO these windows are still covered


----------



## Deino



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## Char

Deino said:


> View attachment 758024



There are two more holes to paste.


----------



## lcloo

Another clear photo.

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## waja2000

Deino said:


> View attachment 758024



Seems prepare to close that 2 hole in middle deck, rear hole air suction hose already remove, front hole left 3-4 hoses


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## Deino

So far the two clearest images of the latest progress on the Type 003 aircraft carrier.

(Images via 潘自建/FB)

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## CIA Mole

Deino said:


> So far the two clearest images of the latest progress on the Type 003 aircraft carrier.
> 
> (Images via 潘自建/FB)
> 
> View attachment 758089
> View attachment 758090



it's still attached to cable so maybe they will take if off after photoop?


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## nang2

CIA Mole said:


> it's still attached to cable so maybe they will take if off after photoop?


Possible, considering the party flag attached. It is possible to celebrate the party's 100-year birthday.


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## ZeEa5KPul

CIA Mole said:


> it's still attached to cable so maybe they will take if off after photoop?


Why would they take it off? They'd continue attaching it.


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## Han Patriot

CIA Mole said:


> it's still attached to cable so maybe they will take if off after photoop?


It's actually a very easy work, one day is enough to integrate that topside. I have done bigger pieces. It's just welding it to the deck, they hoist it up until its welded in place.

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## xuxu1457

Deino said:


> So far the two clearest images of the latest progress on the Type 003 aircraft carrier.
> 
> (Images via 潘自建/FB)
> 
> View attachment 758089
> View attachment 758090


I think this aircraft carrier may enter service earlier than India's indigenous aircraft carrier.

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## Stealth

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410559570192252930

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## obj 705A

*China’s next aircraft-carrier will be its biggest*






Jul 1st 2021
Jiangnan shipyard lies on an alluvial island at the mouth of the Yangzi river. It has grown rapidly since it moved there from nearby Shanghai in 2009, churning out destroyers, icebreakers and landing craft for the Chinese navy. The jewel in its crown is under construction. China is saying little about it, but satellite imagery reveals a near-complete flight deck in a corner of the yard where, less than 15 years ago, there was only farmland.
For now, the vessel-to-be is blandly known to military analysts as the Type 003. It will be China’s second domestically built aircraft-carrier and the largest ship that has ever served in the Chinese fleet. Experts at the Centre for Strategic and International Studies (csis), a think-tank in Washington, have analysed satellite pictures such as the one above, which was taken in June by Planet Labs, an American firm. They conclude that the ship will be about as long as New York’s Chrysler Building is high: about 320 metres.









China’s next aircraft-carrier will be its biggest


The Chinese navy is fast learning how to use them




amp.economist.com

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410852666100662273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410879599345508352

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## casual

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410852666100662273
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410879599345508352


there seems to be some incorrect reporting on the width of the 003. the satellite pic proves the width to be 76.6m-81m while the rendered drawing and the reports all say 73m.

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## Daniel808

casual said:


> there seems to be some incorrect reporting on the width of the 003. the satellite pic proves the width to be 76.6m-81m while the rendered drawing and the reports all say 73m.



Yes, I think @covertshores's make some important miscalculation regarding China's Third Aircraft Carrier dimension.

*Ford vs Type 003 vs Shandong*




*Credit to @Horobeyo*

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## Aasimkhan

Daniel808 said:


> Yes, I think @covertshores's make some important miscalculation regarding China's Third Aircraft Carrier dimension.
> 
> *Ford vs Type 003 vs Shandong*
> View attachment 758693
> 
> *Credit to @Horobeyo*


can some one explain this in simple English please?


----------



## obj 705A

Aasimkhan said:


> can some one explain this in simple English please?


It is wider and shorter than ford.

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## Polestar 2

obj 705A said:


> It is wider and shorter than ford.


The Chinese electric catapult is so good that it doesn't need a longer runaway like steam catapult. So shorter bow. While China need a wider deck to allow more planes on top at same time. Which I believe is the major reason why 2 elevator are needed.

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## Daniel808

Aasimkhan said:


> can some one explain this in simple English please?



China's Type 003 Aircraft Carrier have wider dimension than Ford but shorter.

*Ford*
L : 332m
Deck wide max : 78.5m
Deck main wide : 72.8m
Deck rear wide : 74.0m

Meanwhile,

*China's Type 003 Aircraft Carrier*
L : 321.8m
Deck wide max : 81.0m
Deck main wide : 76.6m
Deck rear wide : 76.6m


A bulky one indeed

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## casual

Aasimkhan said:


> can some one explain this in simple English please?


003's width is misreported to be 73m. Satellite image calculations confirm it to be 76m-81m in width. 

Also 003 has a larger deck then the Ford.

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## Polestar 2

casual said:


> 003's width is misreported to be 73m. Satellite image calculations confirm it to be 76m-81m in width.
> 
> Also 003 has a larger deck then the Ford.


I believe it is misreported on purpose. This to make american felt good that their carrier supposed to better than Type003 in everything.

It's impossible for Chinese to build a bigger ,wider , better aircraft carrier than American.

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## obj 705A

Polestar 2 said:


> I believe it is misreported on purpose. This to make american felt good that their carrier supposed to better than Type003 in everything.
> 
> It's impossible for Chinese to build a bigger ,wider , better aircraft carrier than American.


I'm pretty sure the US already knew the dimensions long before we did.

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## Deino

Polestar 2 said:


> I believe it is misreported on purpose. This to make american felt good that their carrier supposed to better than Type003 in everything.
> 
> It's impossible for Chinese to build a bigger ,wider , better aircraft carrier than American.




Why always assuming a bad intention? Many of the magazines simply do poor research, have little idea and even less interest in facts as long as there are clicks and then mistakes simply happen.


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## Polestar 2

Deino said:


> Why always assuming a bad intention? Many of the magazines simply do poor research, have little idea and even less interest in facts as long as there are clicks and then mistakes simply happen.


I don't think we need an expert on amount of western negative article about China military development.

They can get the length correct because it's shorter than Ford but suddenly miss out on the wide becos it's wider than Ford? 

Selective information I will say.

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## Daniel808

003 vs Ford vs Nimitz vs Kitty Hawk (Image via wb/谈书xx)






Much bigger than Nimitz

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## obj 705A

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1411968009392988167probably the best CG so far.

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## ariez168

[

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1411895652422848521

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## Deino

The latest images of the Type 003 carrier reveal again some progress and even if some currently ongoing discussions vary on length, width and flight deck area it is in any way as @AlexLuck9 noted "... a healthily sized super carrier!"

(Images via 谈笑看世间)

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Deino said:


> The latest images of the Type 003 carrier reveal again some progress and even if some currently ongoing discussions vary on length, width and flight deck area it is in any way as @AlexLuck9 noted "... a healthily sized super carrier!"
> 
> (Images via 谈笑看世间)
> 
> View attachment 759907
> View attachment 759908



Easily the most advanced carrier built by an Asian country (including Russia and Turkey) thus far. Kudos to the Chinese ship makers

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## obj 705A

Deino said:


> The latest images of the Type 003 carrier reveal again some progress and even if some currently ongoing discussions vary on length, width and flight deck area it is in any way as @AlexLuck9 noted "... a healthily sized super carrier!"
> 
> (Images via 谈笑看世间)
> 
> View attachment 759907
> View attachment 759908


The angle at which the picture was taken prevents the kind of accurate measurements we want, IMO we need a satalite pic from the top since this kind of pictures taken from an extreme angle like this one could easily cause difference of one or two meters.

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## Akasa

Island:

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## Daniel808

*Chinese Navy's Type 003 Supercarrier*
Credit to @louischeung_hk












100,000 Tonnes Diplomacy

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412714112937730048

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## waja2000

Deino said:


> (Images via 谈笑看世间)
> View attachment 759908



003 Bow seems over wall ?


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## sheik

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412714112937730048



“I matched them according to their aircraft elevator's ..."

That made my day! 

I don't know if his ignorance caused his stupidity or it's the stupidity that resulted in the ignorance.
It's just amusing anyway.

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## samsara

The ship steam turbine for the 003 is so small, its length is less than 10 meters.

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## samsara

obj 705A said:


> I'm pretty sure the US already knew the dimensions long before we did.


Of course for the inner circle! But the general populace of the USA just be fed by its mainstream media, and they do bite them.

The American society in average is so well known for swallowing up all the propaganda aired in 7x24 TV programming networks there. They know little about the world, and can care less beyond their own country... know only the US is the best in everything, the Exceptional Country.

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## casual

samsara said:


> The ship steam turbine for the 003 is so small, its length is less than 10 meters.


It is likely for co-generation off the heat produced by the main gas turbines.

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## Daniel808

Type 003 Aircraft Carrier (With J-15, J-35, & KJ-600 onboard) VS Ford AC 









Credit to @Louischeung_hk

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## Deino

Again a new image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier and it seems as if that huge gantry crane is lifting something ... maybe the power units / steam turbine engines that were delivered to the yard on Wednesday? 

(Image via @ainicailin from Tieba)

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## Deino

Deino said:


> Again a new image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier and it seems as if that huge gantry crane is lifting something ... maybe the power units / steam turbine engines that were delivered to the yard on Wednesday?
> 
> (Image via @ainicailin from Tieba)
> 
> View attachment 760872




For anyone who want a good laugh please look here as a reply to my tweet: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413487271248994313
... and please see my replies.

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## Globenim

Deino said:


> For anyone who want a good laugh please look here as a reply to my tweet:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413487271248994313
> ... and please see my replies.


I think that guys sarcasm went over your head. His name is literally poop and cowpiss.

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## Deino

Daniel808 said:


> *Chinese Navy's Type 003 Supercarrier*
> Credit to @louischeung_hk
> 
> View attachment 760239
> View attachment 760237
> View attachment 760238
> 
> 
> 100,000 Tonnes Diplomacy




And here an even better one ...

(Images via @西葛西 from bilibili）

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## Deino

So far IMO one of the best, if not the clearest image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier nearing completion of its construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard, Shanghai. That image even shows some internal details.





(Image via @CSIS - via @Maxar)

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## waja2000

Deino said:


> So far IMO one of the best, if not the clearest image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier nearing completion of its construction at the Jiangnan Shipyard, Shanghai. That image even shows some internal details.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Image via @CSIS - via @Maxar)



Waiting fans calculate dimension...


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## Deino

waja2000 said:


> Waiting fans calculate dimension...




via @horobeyo on Twitter:

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## sheik

Deino said:


> via @horobeyo on Twitter:
> 
> View attachment 762392
> 
> View attachment 762393



Some observations:
1. The elevator should be wide enough to handle two J-15's a time, not to mention the smaller J-35.
2. The island is almost 20m shorter than Shangdong's or 30m shorter than Liaoning's.


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## kungfugymnast

Deino said:


> via @horobeyo on Twitter:
> 
> View attachment 762392
> 
> View attachment 762393



What is the width of Type 003 flight deck now? Is it wider & more spacious than Ford Class carrier?


----------



## hirobo2

OK, so if I understand correctly, Type 003 is a sort of Frankenstein CV. The reason being EM catapults are 10m longer than steam. So because they decided to switch to EM halfway thru, Type 003 would have been 10m longer (as long or even longer than Ford) and still wider. Am I correct?


----------



## nang2

hirobo2 said:


> OK, so if I understand correctly, Type 003 is a sort of Frankenstein CV. The reason being EM catapults are 10m longer than steam. So because they decided to switch to EM halfway thru, Type 003 would have been 10m longer (as long or even longer than Ford) and still wider. Am I correct?


10m longer? Where is your reference?


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## hirobo2

EM catapults had to be extended back by 10m. That's y the blast deflector is blocking the landing strip.

IMO, Type 004 will b the proper design much longer and wider than Ford Class... as the Type 003 was meant to be!


----------



## casual

hirobo2 said:


> OK, so if I understand correctly, Type 003 is a sort of Frankenstein CV. The reason being EM catapults are 10m longer than steam. So because they decided to switch to EM halfway thru, Type 003 would have been 10m longer (as long or even longer than Ford) and still wider. Am I correct?


I think you got it backwards. EM catapults are shorter then steam by 10m

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## FuturePAF

Daniel808 said:


> Type 003 Aircraft Carrier (With J-15, J-35, & KJ-600 onboard) VS Ford AC
> 
> View attachment 760626
> View attachment 760625
> 
> Credit to @Louischeung_hk



Some ways to go, but catching up fast. The Ford class is refined while the Type 003 has gone with the Keep it simple principle to make sure they get the fundamentals right.

Any indication China has a separate program to create the nuclear reactors for the Type 004 Carrier. Perhaps 5-8 years operating the Type 003, and the Chinese will probably have the experience to create a refined design for the type 004 design with enough reactor power to meet all the needs the type 003 demonstrated.


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## casual

FuturePAF said:


> Some ways to go, but catching up fast. The Ford class is refined while the Type 003 has gone with the Keep it simple principle to make sure they get the fundamentals right.
> 
> Any indication China has a separate program to create the nuclear reactors for the Type 004 Carrier. Perhaps 5-8 years operating the Type 003, and the Chinese will probably have the experience to create a refined design for the type 004 design with enough reactor power to meet all the needs the type 003 demonstrated.


004 might be a sister ship to 003. I don't think nuclear carriers are a priority for China ATM as China will be mostly focused on defending areas close to home.

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## FuturePAF

casual said:


> 004 might be a sister ship to 003. I don't think nuclear carriers are a priority for China ATM as China will be mostly focused on defending areas close to home.



A nuclear carrier will allow the island on the type 004 to be smaller, the EM catapults to have continuous power, the sensors to have more power, potential laser weapons to have more power, and overall allow the ship to be larger if the need is there to host more aircraft.

The experience with the Type 003 will pave the way for The PLAN to see what it really needs. You maybe right, China may focus on securing the waters around China then power projection or securing The SLOCs further a field, for now, and for that a nuclear carrier maybe unnecessary.

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## obj 705A

An aircraft carrier is not a coast guard ship, an aircraft carrier is a floating airbase that allows one to have aircrafts available where a real airbase is not available, so no China is not building these CVs to keep them to patrol waters that are close to their coast especially since Flankers based in the mainland in addition to the ones based in islands in the SCS can already cover most of these waters.

a conventional carrier can easily cover the western pacific (up to 3000-4000 km away from the coast) it can also cover the IOR and the Mediterranean thanks to the recent expansion in the PLAN's base in Djibouti which has now been expanded so that it can recieve super carriers.


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## ziaulislam

Deino said:


> Again a new image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier and it seems as if that huge gantry crane is lifting something ... maybe the power units / steam turbine engines that were delivered to the yard on Wednesday?
> 
> (Image via @ainicailin from Tieba)
> 
> View attachment 760872


So this is not nuclear?


casual said:


> 004 might be a sister ship to 003. I don't think nuclear carriers are a priority for China ATM as China will be mostly focused on defending areas close to home.


With modular nuclear reactors, a case for nuclear ships is more stronger


----------



## Globenim

hirobo2 said:


> EM catapults had to be extended back by 10m. That's y the blast deflector is blocking the landing strip.
> 
> IMO, Type 004 will b the proper design much longer and wider than Ford Class... as the Type 003 was meant to be!


The Type 003 catapults where never "extended" and are almost the same length or in fact slightly shorter than the Nimitz EM catapults (I guess being "shorter" or "longer" will by held against the Type 003 then either way). The blast doors are in fact positioned almost exactly at the same length as they are on the Nimitz carrier.

The main reason you are thinking they are clipping into the landing strip is because the Type 003 is assumed by fans and watchers to have a very wide landing strip based on the angled deck shape, not because of the length of the catapult. Thats not even certain. If the Type 003 had a landing strip as narrow as the Nimitz the deflectors could be exactly outside of the boundary of the landing strip including safety lines.

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## kungfugymnast

casual said:


> 004 might be a sister ship to 003. I don't think nuclear carriers are a priority for China ATM as China will be mostly focused on defending areas close to home.



Agree, Type 004 will be the same ship as 003 with improvement. China would build at least 4 of this class before moving forward to nuclear powered aircraft carrier. PLAN priority for now is mobile base for fleet defense providing air cover for ships.


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## kungfugymnast

obj 705A said:


> An aircraft carrier is not a coast guard ship, an aircraft carrier is a floating airbase that allows one to have aircrafts available where a real airbase is not available, so no China is not building these CVs to keep them to patrol waters that are close to their coast especially since Flankers based in the mainland in addition to the ones based in islands in the SCS can already cover most of these waters.
> 
> a conventional carrier can easily cover the western pacific (up to 3000-4000 km away from the coast) it can also cover the IOR and the Mediterranean thanks to the recent expansion in the PLAN's base in Djibouti which has now been expanded so that it can recieve super carriers.



Conventional aircraft carrier is only good to cover less than half the globe in case of war against most powerful country. Limited to hold the line defense covering SCS, ECS to not far into Pacific Ocean with lower risk of getting cut off from resupply line. For any campaign further past Indian Ocean or Pacific Ocean is not practical at the moment.


ziaulislam said:


> So this is not nuclear?
> 
> With modular nuclear reactors, a case for nuclear ships is more stronger



News said conventional. Nuclear powered is better but due to time constraint, China opted for conventional first as they needed a working aircraft carrier fast due to rising threat from US


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## hirobo2

Globenim said:


> The Type 003 catapults where never "extended" and are almost the same length or in fact slightly shorter than the Nimitz EM catapults (I guess being "shorter" or "longer" will by held against the Type 003 then either way). The blast doors are in fact positioned almost exactly at the same length as they are on the Nimitz carrier.
> 
> The main reason you are thinking they are clipping into the landing strip is because the Type 003 is assumed by fans and watchers to have a very wide landing strip based on the angled deck shape, not because of the length of the catapult. Thats not even certain. If the Type 003 had a landing strip as narrow as the Nimitz the deflectors could be exactly outside of the boundary of the landing strip including safety lines.



I don't think it's a good idea to have the left-most blast deflector overlap with the landing strip. The point of having a demarcated strip for landing is so nothing lies within this strip.

Also don't think it's in China's nature to spend hundreds of millions on a ship just to cheap out on a few meters on probably the most crucial part of the ship which is the aircraft recovery.

If Type 003 was just tens of meters longer, they wouldn't have this problem. The only reasonable explanation I can think of is they stuck EM catapults on a ship designed for steam catapults and we get irregularities show up like blast deflectors overlapping etc.

Also, anyone ever driven both a Toyota Camry and Corolla? After been inside El Cheapo Corolla for sometime, the Camry seems very spacious on the inside, that's y it costs more. I know Chinese nature very well, no Chinese choose to drive a Corolla (Type 003 with overlapping blast deflector) when they could be driving a Camry (landing strip and deflector fully seggregated).

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## MajesticPug

casual said:


> 004 might be a sister ship to 003. I don't think nuclear carriers are a priority for China ATM as China will be mostly focused on defending areas close to home.



I do think 004 has a high probability of being nuclear. The age of China double designing, double manufacturing is over because of costs (wasted doing the same things) and confidence and better engineering in designs. Look at the development of China's space program and you should detect the trend. The Mars lander is one of its kind and the succeeding one will not do the same thing.
Also, the most important reason is its 'needs' to protect, not just its immediate waters but also its trade lanes. China's trade lanes are as important and critical to its economy as its immediate waters. So a nuclear-powered carrier and newer generations of attack subs are critical to PLAN's next stage. That stage is NOW to 2035 and China's already late coming of age.


hirobo2 said:


> I don't think it's a good idea to have the left-most blast deflector overlap with the landing strip. The point of having a demarcated strip for landing is so nothing lies within this strip.
> 
> Also don't think it's in China's nature to spend hundreds of millions on a ship just to cheap out on a few meters on probably the most crucial part of the ship which is the aircraft recovery.
> 
> If Type 003 was just tens of meters longer, they wouldn't have this problem. The only reasonable explanation I can think of is they stuck EM catapults on a ship designed for steam catapults and we get irregularities show up like blast deflectors overlapping etc.
> 
> Also, anyone ever driven both a Toyota Camry and Corolla? After been inside El Cheapo Corolla for sometime, the Camry seems very spacious on the inside, that's y it costs more. I know Chinese nature very well, no Chinese choose to drive a Corolla (Type 003 with overlapping blast deflector) when they could be driving a Camry (landing strip and deflector fully seggregated).



Funny how you would say Chinese would not save a few bucks on shorter length and would save pennies to convert a steam catapult to EM's. Just your bias and ignorance of the history of 003. There were lengthy arguments on steam or EM at the beginning. Eventually EM won, then a design team was assembled. That took a couple years before actual fabrications took place.

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1417327341668167681

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## kungfugymnast

MajesticPug said:


> I do think 004 has a high probability of being nuclear. The age of China double designing, double manufacturing is over because of costs (wasted doing the same things) and confidence and better engineering in designs. Look at the development of China's space program and you should detect the trend. The Mars lander is one of its kind and the succeeding one will not do the same thing.
> Also, the most important reason is its 'needs' to protect, not just its immediate waters but also its trade lanes. China's trade lanes are as important and critical to its economy as its immediate waters. So a nuclear-powered carrier and newer generations of attack subs are critical to PLAN's next stage. That stage is NOW to 2035 and China's already late coming of age.
> 
> 
> Funny how you would say Chinese would not save a few bucks on shorter length and would save pennies to convert a steam catapult to EM's. Just your bias and ignorance of the history of 003. There were lengthy arguments on steam or EM at the beginning. Eventually EM won, then a design team was assembled. That took a couple years before actual fabrications took place.



It depends on how much time they have and how urgent they need working operational aircraft carrier. Type 001 and 002 aren't really useful to launch heavy J-15A that aren't ideal for war. 

Type 003 will have to go through sea trials with lots of flights and landing experiments before China would come up with revised design. If Type 003 proven good enough, China would proceed to build more Type 003 class aircraft carriers while conducting research on designing nuclear powered aircraft carrier.


----------



## hirobo2

MajesticPug said:


> I do think 004 has a high probability of being nuclear. The age of China double designing, double manufacturing is over because of costs (wasted doing the same things) and confidence and better engineering in designs. Look at the development of China's space program and you should detect the trend. The Mars lander is one of its kind and the succeeding one will not do the same thing.
> Also, the most important reason is its 'needs' to protect, not just its immediate waters but also its trade lanes. China's trade lanes are as important and critical to its economy as its immediate waters. So a nuclear-powered carrier and newer generations of attack subs are critical to PLAN's next stage. That stage is NOW to 2035 and China's already late coming of age.
> 
> 
> Funny how you would say Chinese would not save a few bucks on shorter length and would save pennies to convert a steam catapult to EM's. Just your bias and ignorance of the history of 003. There were lengthy arguments on steam or EM at the beginning. Eventually EM won, then a design team was assembled. That took a couple years before actual fabrications took place.



Nope, I had been following Type 003 development. They were almost gonna build Type 003 then had to stop work because EM became feasible. Hence they were never gonna restart Type 003 from ground zero. Too much work to remod/redesign everything.

It's not Chinese nature to save a few bucks. When China builds something, it's majestic and grand and spacy and roomy.

Type 003 looks like a Frankenstein freak ship to me. Thus, the only conclusion I can make is this:

1. EM catapults is always better than steam. A perfectly looking steam ship is less desirable than a freak ship with EM.
2. Type 003 looks like a compromise, not what China wanted but it's way better than a steam ship, and not what an EM ship would look like.

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## MajesticPug

kungfugymnast said:


> It depends on how much time they have and how urgent they need working operational aircraft carrier. Type 001 and 002 aren't really useful to launch heavy J-15A that aren't ideal for war.
> 
> Type 003 will have to go through sea trials with lots of flights and landing experiments before China would come up with revised design. If Type 003 proven good enough, China would proceed to build more Type 003 class aircraft carriers while conducting research on designing nuclear powered aircraft carrier.



When 003 is proven good enough, more 003 type will be built has nothing to do with the next being nuclear-powered. I'd believe 004 will be nuclear and if its tests turn out successful, more nuclear-powered 004 (perhaps 4) will be built. When this is done, 001 and 002 will be retired.


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## Deino

Are these two modules / parts for the remaining two large openings on the flight deck? ... so closure of the deck quite soon?

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## waja2000

Deino said:


> Are these two modules / parts for the remaining two large openings on the flight deck? ... so closure of the deck quite soon?
> 
> View attachment 763981



People said possible have last pieces 3-5 meter wide module for bow site.


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## Deino

waja2000 said:


> People said possible have last pieces 3-5 meter wide module for bow site.




For the bow?? I thought this was already finished?


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## waja2000

Deino said:


> For the bow?? I thought this was already finished?








i means edge module in red box


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## siegecrossbow

Deino said:


> For anyone who want a good laugh please look here as a reply to my tweet:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413487271248994313
> ... and please see my replies.



It’s obviously a Chinese guy posing (badly) as an Indian to mock them. Indians never say “India no. 1”, which seems to borrow from the “Taiwan no.1” phrase.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1418113793440325632

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## Han Patriot

siegecrossbow said:


> It’s obviously a Chinese guy posing (badly) as an Indian to mock them. Indians never say “India no. 1”, which seems to borrow from the “Taiwan no.1” phrase.


Indians would say Yindoo supapowa

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## Deino

Update again ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1422457676475375616

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## waja2000

lately not much new photo for 003 ... hopefully end this month have some new photo

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## Daniel808

*A Super-Carrier indeed*






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426162975686107141

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## KampfAlwin

Any updates?


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## waja2000

KampfAlwin said:


> Any updates?



not many now, since many china military forum already close down.

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## ozranger

KampfAlwin said:


> Any updates?


As reported discussions on PLA equipment from any China forums and discussion boards have been prohibited by the authorities. Some minor leaks could incur prosecution to the leakers.

Only state media can report PLA equipment under specific censorship.

It is understandable that they applied such tightened control on that in the context of preparation of the final Taiwan operations.

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## khanasifm

Sasquatch said:


> First to carriers are going to be fitted with steam believe it, EMALS will be fitted on the Type 003. I was hoping they skip it as steam catapults are expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> Your wrong on this. It's going to take 5-10 years before the PLAN can even match the Royal or French Navy forget about being the second best.



French navy and British navy has just one and two carrier vs usn 10/11 and Chinese 4/6 planned along with. Carrier groups


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## zectech

ozranger said:


> As reported discussions on PLA equipment from any China forums and discussion boards have been prohibited by the authorities. Some minor leaks could incur prosecution to the leakers.
> 
> Only state media can report PLA equipment under specific censorship.
> 
> It is understandable that they applied such tightened control on that in the context of preparation of the final Taiwan operations.



Finally!


----------



## Deino

ozranger said:


> As reported discussions on PLA equipment from any China forums and discussion boards have been prohibited by the authorities. Some minor leaks could incur prosecution to the leakers.
> 
> Only state media can report PLA equipment under specific censorship.
> 
> It is understandable that they applied such tightened control on that in the context of preparation of the final Taiwan operations.




But was this as per official announcement or based as per consensus of the owners due to the closing down of individual sites?


----------



## KampfAlwin

A somewhat informative summary on the Type 003. I think there's some minor errors, but he does err on the side of caution and speculation. Good for those who do not want to surf 100+ pages in this thread for info.


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## Deino

In fact I cannot believe




... finally again a recent image (taken on 23rd August) of the Type 003 aircraft carrier. Even if it is more than blurry and I still cannot see, if the deck is closed already, it is at least a start




(Image via @horobeyo/Twitter)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429826982410428416


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## Deino

Oh well ... and as if someone just waited for a new-start only to post again: Here an eve better one from today (allegedly?) and if I'm not mistaken, it seems as if the deck is closed!? Or am I wrong?

(Image via SINCHIKI/SDF)

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## casual

Deino said:


> Oh well ... and as if someone just waited for a new-start only to post again: Here an eve better one from today (allegedly?) and if I'm not mistaken, it seems as if the deck is closed!? Or am I wrong?
> 
> (Image via SINCHIKI/SDF)
> 
> View attachment 772369
> 
> 
> View attachment 772370


Pretty clear it's closed.


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## johncliu88

Expect 003 to get in sea trial in Oct? Or by the end of this year?


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## Deino

johncliu88 said:


> Expect 003 to get in sea trial in Oct? Or by the end of this year?




Never ever … even if it would be launched already this year, which I see not for granted, it will remain on the dockside for fitting out at least for one additional year. As such sea trails in October is plain impossible, launch late this year maybe.


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## Polestar 2




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## KampfAlwin

It’s almost closed up! Just need to install elevators next.

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## Deino

KampfAlwin said:


> It’s almost closed up! Just need to install elevators next.
> 
> View attachment 772820




Wow ... what's the source of this image?


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## KampfAlwin

Deino said:


> Wow ... what's the source of this image?


@核动力航母战斗群吧 on Tieba

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## Deino

Oh no! 🙁⁠
⁠

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430455915506028544


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## KampfAlwin

Deino said:


> Oh no! 🙁⁠
> ⁠
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430455915506028544


Yup sorry! Silly me...


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## luciferdd

The island is really powerfull and compact that i had never seen before.

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## johncliu88

luciferdd said:


> View attachment 773215
> 
> The island is really powerfull and compact that i had never seen before.


Wow! This is a great picture to clearly show the island and the 2 large openings. Yes, it is a very compact design for the island. Maybe the same design can be moved to Liaoning and Shandong carriers later on if needed. Thanks for the beautiful picture.


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## nang2

johncliu88 said:


> Wow! This is a great picture to clearly show the island and the 2 large openings. Yes, it is a very compact design for the island. Maybe the same design can be moved to Liaoning and Shandong carriers later on if needed. Thanks for the beautiful picture.


I guess that modern electronics may reduce the number of staffs required above the flight deck.


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## johncliu88

nang2 said:


> I guess that modern electronics may reduce the number of staffs required above the flight deck.


Yes, the size of staff on a US carrier is over 5000. Will see how many on the 003 later on. Should be less for sure.


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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1431908815151112199彩云香江 @louischeung_hk
Latest images of Type 003 carrier (Images via 谈笑看世间）










5:17 PM · Aug 29, 2021

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## onebyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1431893413146857475

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## johncliu88

Nice pics. Thx. Seems to me that the cats are being worked on. We will see a flat top really soon.


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## kungfugymnast

No further news on Type 003 yet? Only said the 2 big holes on deck covered but the video looks like they only covered with planks rather than sealed.


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## Deino

@horobeyo claims that the deck may be closed ... in fact I see nothing!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437291890450198534


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## Daniel808

The Elevator already arrived

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437251046108123144

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## johncliu88

Daniel808 said:


> The Elevator already arrived
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437251046108123144


Can't wait to see them be installed onto 003. Jiayou!

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## waja2000

Engine hole start closing for bottom layer ... entire engine hole should close soon. 
also EMALS using tents to cover installation


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439238077248008194

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439226454366056465

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## johncliu88

waja2000 said:


> Engine hole start closing for bottom layer ... entire engine hole should close soon.
> also EMALS using tents to cover installation
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439238077248008194
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439226454366056465


Looks like most of the equipment be installed before ship launching or sea trial. Not like Vikrant, pretty clean on the deck.


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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440678875617390604
Impressive  Cannot wait to see these days. Next year?

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## Daniel808

Latest update


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440902598194712583

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Although personally I would like to see it launch this year but unfortunately the delay due to covid lockdown is very severe.


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## Deino

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Although personally I would like to see it launch this year but unfortunately the delay due to covid lockdown is very severe.




Again ... there is no delay, at least not a major one. and this was in fact a logical consequence alone based on comparing construction of 002 and 003 that a launch already this year is unlikely.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Deino said:


> Again ... there is no delay, at least not a major one. and this was in fact a logical consequence alone based on comparing construction of 002 and 003 that a launch already this year is unlikely.



It feels that way. In particularly, no further launch or commissioning of Type 052D, Type 055, Type 075. Maybe there is some delay due to covid lockdown but hopefully not very severe.


----------



## GS Zhou

Tai Hai Chen said:


> It feels that way. In particularly, no further launch or commissioning of Type 052D, Type 055, Type 075. Maybe there is some delay due to covid lockdown but hopefully not very severe.


China's navy ships building program is strictly following the five-year-plan (FYP). The last FYP was the 13th FYP (2016 to 2020); the current one was the 14th FYP (2021 to 2025). The reason we don't see much launch or commissioning of large combat ships in 2021 is because the major tasks assigned by the 13th FYP have been completed by 2020 or early 2021; while the new tasks initiated by the 14th FYP was still in the baby-stage, e.g. just start the steel cutting.

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## lcloo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> It feels that way. In particularly, no further launch or commissioning of Type 052D, Type 055, Type 075. Maybe there is some delay due to covid lockdown but hopefully not very severe.


All ships under Contracts for type 052D, type 055 X 8 and type 075 X 3 have been launched. So what is the delay?

New contracts have not been confirmed, other than the additional 20 units of type 054A++.

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## Deino

A new PLAN NA recruitment video with an almost funny confirmation at the end, that the next generation carrier will be a CATOBAR carrier:



https://m.weibo.cn/status/4687527048384203


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

lcloo said:


> All ships under Contracts for type 052D, type 055 X 8 and type 075 X 3 have been launched. So what is the delay?
> 
> New contracts have not been confirmed, other than the additional 20 units of type 054A++.



However, the progress is slower than expected. China is battling covid every day. There is certainly a delay, which is expected. Not only 003 but the other ships too.


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## Deino

Tai Hai Chen said:


> However, the progress is slower than expected. China is battling covid every day. There is certainly a delay, which is expected. Not only 003 but the other ships too.




No, at least not certainly since we don't know the original schedule ... by the way, here's a new and recent image:

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## lcloo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> However, the progress is slower than expected. China is battling covid every day. There is certainly a delay, which is expected. Not only 003 but the other ships too.


China is battling COVID-19 every day? Did you get that impression from CNN or Bloomberg? For your information, yesterday the whole of China has got* 10 cases of local infection,* and *24 imported cases* (from overseas travellers entering China.) 

And hardly any COVID-19 cases in the last 12 months in Dalian and Shanghai where PLA navy aircraft carrier 003, type 075 and type 052D are built.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

lcloo said:


> China is battling COVID-19 every day? Did you get that impression from CNN or Bloomberg? For your information, yesterday the whole of China has got* 10 cases of local infection,* and *24 cases of imported cases* (from overseas travellers entering China.)
> 
> And hardly any COVID-19 cases in the last 12 months in Dalian and Shanghai where PLA navy aircraft carrier 003, type 075 and type 052D are built.



While the case is few, China must test lots of people every day with PCR tests which is expensive. More money spent on tests means less money spent on defense.


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## lcloo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> While the case is few, China must test lots of people every day with PCR tests which is expensive. More money spent on tests means less money spent on defense.


Senseless discussion! Do you know what financial budget allocation is all about?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

lcloo said:


> Senseless discussion! Do you know what financial budget allocation is all about?



Money is not unlimited. Spend more on tests, less is available for ships.


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## nang2

lcloo said:


> Senseless discussion! Do you know what financial budget allocation is all about?


The disruption of people's lives and their regular business probably costs much more than tests. But as long as people think it is a cost worthwhile, why would anyone else care? Right?


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## lcloo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Money is not unlimited. Spend more on tests, less is available for ships.



Try to interpret this graph intelligently then I will further discuss with you. Do some homework before you write further, otherwise you are just trolling.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

lcloo said:


> Try to interpret this graph intelligently then I will further discuss with you. Do some homework before you write further, otherwise you are just trolling.
> View attachment 781360



We let data speak for itself. We shall see if they can commission a Type 055 this year or next year.


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## Deino

Finally - after almost one month - a new image showing the latest progress on the Type 003 aircraft carrier's construction.

As it seems and if not again a faked image, the deck is closed now and they are still working on the port side bow catapult.

(Image via @gaofrank75)











Whereby my stomach screams for fake after a second look: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451426607403606019

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452066992228208642

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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453284126581211136

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## onebyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454460914975928330

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## lcloo

I am convinced that they could launch the ship before December 31st if they want to. From what we can see now, only a few works are needed to be completed before they can float it out.

After installing aircraft lifts, other works can be done while the ship is afloat on pier side but we are not the ones that get to choose the launch date... Just hope that Eva ZhengII was right on launch before year-end..

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## FuturePAF

lcloo said:


> I am convinced that they could launch the ship before December 31st if they want to. From what we can see now, only a few works are needed to be completed before they can float it out.
> 
> After installing aircraft lifts, other works can be done while the ship is afloat on pier side but we are not the ones that get to choose the launch date... Just hope that Eva ZhengII was right on launch before year-end..


What was her estimate? Did she also have an estimate on when the Type 003 will be fully fitted out and commissioned?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

FuturePAF said:


> What was her estimate? Did she also have an estimate on when the Type 003 will be fully fitted out and commissioned?



I think by mid next year due to covid lock down.

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## lcloo

FuturePAF said:


> What was her estimate? Did she also have an estimate on when the Type 003 will be fully fitted out and commissioned?


Sorry, she didn't give those estimates. She only wrote that the ship could be launched before year end. She posted that in her twitter several months ago.

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## Deino

Latest updates ...

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## casual

lcloo said:


> I am convinced that they could launch the ship before December 31st if they want to. From what we can see now, only a few works are needed to be completed before they can float it out.
> 
> After installing aircraft lifts, other works can be done while the ship is afloat on pier side but we are not the ones that get to choose the launch date... Just hope that Eva ZhengII was right on launch before year-end..


no rush unless they need the drydock for some other project.


Deino said:


> Latest updates ...
> 
> View attachment 789310
> 
> View attachment 789309


looks almost ready to launch. just need the aircraft lifts installed.

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## johncliu88

casual said:


> no rush unless they need the drydock for some other project.
> 
> looks almost ready to launch. just need the aircraft lifts installed.


This shipyard has a lot of space, not like the Indian one. So workers can install almost everything before it is launched. No hurry, we can wait.


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## kungfugymnast

casual said:


> no rush unless they need the drydock for some other project.
> 
> looks almost ready to launch. just need the aircraft lifts installed.



Do you think the powerplants & EMALS fittings take some time to install? Because the 2 large holes seems to be leading to the 2.


----------



## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456109637472702466





PS ... more ...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456153230195314688

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## ozranger

Seems like everything will be installed before floating to the water.


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## Shotgunner51

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456109637472702466
> View attachment 790122
> 
> 
> PS ... more ...
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456153230195314688


Seems like good progress. I am wondering what kind of air wing will fit into 003, perhaps
J-XY/35 × 18
J-15 × 18
J-15 EW bird × 4
KJ-600 × 4
GJ-11 naval version × 12
Some HALE for recon × 4
Z-20 × 8
A bit conservative I would say but not a bad mix

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## casual

kungfugymnast said:


> Do you think the powerplants & EMALS fittings take some time to install? Because the 2 large holes seems to be leading to the 2.


those holes looks closed to me. Of course the powerplants and EMALS takes time to install, but those are smaller modules and doesn't require drydock. They can be installed after launch.


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## kungfugymnast

casual said:


> those holes looks closed to me. Of course the powerplants and EMALS takes time to install, but those are smaller modules and doesn't require drydock. They can be installed after launch.



Good, it means the carrier will be ready hopefully by this year, most likely delayed next year. Can wait to see fighters operating on the EMALS carrier


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## lcloo

New photo, the last 2 photo shows the size of workers and the ships.

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## johncliu88

lcloo said:


> New photo, the last 2 photo shows the size of workers and the ships.
> View attachment 793449
> View attachment 793450
> View attachment 793451


Thanks for the great pictures. When the last CAT is done, then it will be time to launch. Can't wait to see.


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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462688252402581505


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## Deino

According to this image, work on the third catapult has been started ...

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## johncliu88

Deino said:


> According to this image, work on the third catapult has been started ...
> 
> View attachment 796623


Well, the guy who took the picture must have used an old smart phone.


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## luciferdd



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## FuturePAF

When was the keel of this ship first laid down?


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## GiantPanda

luciferdd said:


> View attachment 797901



Great photo. Amazing to see a 85-90K ton carrier being dwarfed by the ships being built around her.


FuturePAF said:


> When was the keel of this ship first laid down?



Keel laid in the current drydock in July 2020. Yes, just last year.

But we saw initial blocks in a separate staging area a few months before that.

China manufactures large ships in modules first before assembled and welded together in the drydock.

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## Shotgunner51

GiantPanda said:


> Great photo. Amazing to see a 85-90K ton carrier being dwarfed by the ships being built around her.


VLCS (Very Large Container Ship) or VLCC (Very Large Crude Carrier) can easily double the tonnage of an aircraft carrier or even more. Jiangnan Shipyard builds a lot of these mega vessels.

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## FuturePAF

GiantPanda said:


> Great photo. Amazing to see a 85-90K ton carrier being dwarfed by the ships being built around her.
> 
> 
> Keel laid in the current drydock in July 2020. Yes, just last year.
> 
> But we saw initial blocks in a separate staging area a few months before that.
> 
> China manufactures large ships in modules first before assembled and welded together in the drydock.



Any Indication Type 004 is the same design and if so, if it has already began construction? Or maybe they will wait till this ship is at least through sea trails to update the design and then start construction.


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## johncliu88

luciferdd said:


> View attachment 797901


Wow! This is a very clear and nice picture. Thanks for sharing it.


----------



## Shotgunner51

Another aerial from around Nov 25

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## ChineseTiger1986

Something big gonna happen soon, just stay tuned.

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## Polestar 2

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Something big gonna happen soon, just stay tuned.
> 
> 
> View attachment 801554
> 
> 
> View attachment 801555


Zero Info from this article... Very likely 003 will miss the dateline of floating from dock before the end of year.


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## luciferdd

Polestar 2 said:


> Zero Info from this article... Very likely 003 will miss the dateline of floating from dock before the end of year.


The article mentions that the design of 003 had been changed by PLAN before,though we all know what it means...

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## ChineseTiger1986

Polestar 2 said:


> Zero Info from this article... Very likely 003 will miss the dateline of floating from dock before the end of year.



This article talks about the completion of the facility to test the propulsion of the Type 003 by the end of 2021.

谈笑看世间 (the mysterious photographer who has provided the best shot of the Type 003) was the first person who leaked the information about this facility back in October 2021, and now it is proved to be true.

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## Han Patriot

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This article talks about the completion of the facility to test the propulsion of the Type 003 by the end of 2021.
> 
> 谈笑看世间 (the mysterious photographer who has provided the best shot of the Type 003) was the first person who leaked the information about this facility back in October 2021, and now it is proved to be true.


I wonder what kind of propulsion needs a special facility? Lol NNN


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Han Patriot said:


> I wonder what kind of propulsion needs a special facility? Lol NNN



We shall see this soon.


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## SQ8

Only two elevators? Expecting a 50 Aircraft compliment max?


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## ChineseTiger1986

SQ8 said:


> Only two elevators? Expecting a 50 Aircraft compliment max?



Each elevator can lift two J-15 aircrafts in the meantime.

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## Polestar 2

SQ8 said:


> Only two elevators? Expecting a 50 Aircraft compliment max?


Actually, Chinese shall go for 3 elevators instead of 2. I know they are trying to maximize deck space for more aircraft ready to be park and launch quickly but having 3 elevator doesn't mean , you will be using 3 at the same time.The one not using can also be added a deck space to maximize aircraff in deck.

But having 3, will means you are having more backup when 1-2 breaks down.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Polestar 2 said:


> Actually, Chinese shall go for 3 elevators instead of 2. I know they are trying to maximize deck space for more aircraft ready to be park and launch quickly but having 3 elevator doesn't mean , you will be using 3 at the same time.The one not using can also be added a deck space to maximize aircraff in deck.
> 
> But having 3, will means you are having more backup when 1-2 breaks down.



The Type 003 will serve as a crucial platform to test a lot new technologies just like the CVN-65 to the USN.

I think the next supercarrier is going to going to be optimized based on the Type 003, and it is already under construction.

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## Shotgunner51



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## Shotgunner51

Perhaps GJ-11 is going onboard, but from an earlier AVIC official promo (for 2018 Zhuhai) the carrier-borne UAV looks different, with folding wings.

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## lcloo

Update

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## GiantPanda

lcloo said:


> Update
> 
> View attachment 803957
> View attachment 803958
> View attachment 803959
> View attachment 803960




Crazy amount of activity. The carrier is surrounded by a forest of ship sections that are bigger than the carrier!

This is industrialization, friends.

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## Polestar 2

The progress of Typ003 is too slow. It shall be on water by end of this year.


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## FuturePAF

Polestar 2 said:


> Zero Info from this article... Very likely 003 will miss the dateline of floating from dock before the *end of year*.


Seems you were right. Btw, what’s the latest word on the tonnage of this carrier? It is said to be 80 meters wide and 320 meters long per two articles from NavalNews.


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## ChineseTiger1986

FuturePAF said:


> Seems you were right. Btw, what’s the latest word on the tonnage of this carrier? It is said to be 80 meters wide and 320 meters long per two articles from NavalNews.



Around 95000 tonnes, similar to CVN-65 and CVN-68.

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## FuturePAF

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Around 95000 tonnes, similar to CVN-65 and CVN-68.



That’s a huge leap from the previous design, and with the Type 004 construction also underway; in a few short years, if the Type 004 or Type 005 is nuclear powered, we may see the design that will carry the PLAN for at least the next 30-50 years come into focus soon, just like the Nimitz class has been doing for the last 50 years.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

FuturePAF said:


> That’s a huge leap from the previous design, and with the Type 004 construction also underway; in a few short years, if the Type 004 or Type 005 is nuclear powered, we may see the design that will carry the PLAN for at least the next 30-50 years come into focus soon, just like the Nimitz class has been doing for the last 50 years.



Maybe this one is already a CVN.

Since its funnels are most likely the auxiliary power source to backup the ship's electric consumption and requirement.

In comparison, the Ford class is already powered by two very powerful A1B reactors, but it still cannot meet the demand of its EMALS.

Maybe China chooses the gas turbines as the extra backup power source for the EMALS.

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## FuturePAF

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Maybe this one is already a CVN.
> 
> Since its funnels are most likely the auxiliary power source to backup the ship's electric consumption and requirement.
> 
> Since the Ford class is already powered by two very powerful A1B reactors, but it still cannot meet the demand of its EMALS.
> 
> Maybe China chooses the gas turbine as the alternative backup power source for the EMALS.



But to match the Ford class China would need two 700MW reactors on this ship. Any indication China has such powerful naval reactors available or are we possibly seeing another breakthrough being revealed with this ship design.

I Guess we will be able to tell once the ship is launched and we see how much smoke comes out of the smoke stack.


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## ChineseTiger1986

FuturePAF said:


> But to match the Ford class China would need two 700MW reactors on this ship. Any indication China has such powerful naval reactors available or are we possibly seeing another breakthrough being revealed with this ship design.
> 
> I Guess we will be able to tell once the ship is launched and we see how much smoke comes out of the smoke stack.



The thermal power of the Linglong 1 reactor is around 385 MW, so the Type 003 is likely to be powered by 4 X 385 MW Linglong 1 reactors compared to the 2 X 715 MW A1B reactors of the Ford class.

The HEU of the A1B reactor is around 93%, whereas the Linglong 1 reactor is no more than 50%.

China wants those reactors with lower enrichment which will be safer and easier for the RCOH.

The Type 003 is very likely to be a CONAG supercarrier.

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## Deino

FuturePAF said:


> That’s a huge leap from the previous design, and with the Type 004 construction also underway; in a few short years, if the Type 004 or Type 005 is nuclear powered, we may see the design that will carry the PLAN for at least the next 30-50 years come into focus soon, just like the Nimitz class has been doing for the last 50 years.



Since when is 004 already under construction?


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## Shotgunner51

Getting ready to install deck-edge elevators?

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## FuturePAF

Deino said:


> Since when is 004 already under construction?


It was mentioned by another user in another thread that “construction has begun”.

Yeah, it wouldn’t make sense until the works out the bug with this design, but I guess I was referencing someone else’s post.

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## Deino

Polestar 2 said:


> The progress of Typ003 is too slow. It shall be on water by end of this year.




Why again this negative tone? IMO there was no delay and the progress is also not too slow. No-one with a bit of understanding expected a launch already in 2021 and all reasonable estimates were pointing towards a date after May or June 2022. As such stop this only since you had unrealistic too high hopes .. everything's still fine!


FuturePAF said:


> It was mentioned by another user in another thread that “construction has begun”.
> 
> Yeah, it wouldn’t make sense until the works out the bug with this design, but I guess I was referencing someone else’s post.




But this is always based on Minnie Chan's stupid report published in the SCMP. In fact I don't exclude this option, but we have no proof for this and at least at the construction site no new carrier modules are under construction.

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## johncliu88

Shotgunner51 said:


> Getting ready to install deck-edge elevators?
> 
> View attachment 805070


Interesting. Another block of a cargo ship is right behind the carrier. And the shipyard is building so many ships at the same time. Just wonder how many workers are on the same shift, not to mention if there are 3 shifts of work hours periods daily.


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## Han Patriot

Deino said:


> Since when is 004 already under construction?


He hehe.


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## Deino

Han Patriot said:


> He hehe.




"He hehe" may be a logical assumption based on previous projects and rumours, however there is nothing yet confirmed and nothing seen at either Dalian or the construction site at Shanghai?! Or am I wrong?


----------



## Han Patriot

Deino said:


> "He hehe" may be a logical assumption based on previous projects and rumours, however there is nothing yet confirmed and nothing seen at either Dalian or the construction site at Shanghai?! Or am I wrong?


I am in a shanghai yard now and some of the technicians here are already getting recruited to Dalian for a 'carrier' project.

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## johncliu88

Han Patriot said:


> I am in a shanghai yard now and some of the technicians here are already getting recruited to Dalian for a 'carrier' project.


If this is true, that means the Jiangnan shipyard is all full. Dalian will do the next carrier. From another source that I heard, Jiangnan shipyard will start another 8x 055 later on this year. Don't know if it is true or not.

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## Deino

Han Patriot said:


> I am in a shanghai yard now and some of the technicians here are already getting recruited to Dalian for a 'carrier' project.




That would be in fact the first hint I would rate as reliable!

Thanks my friend.

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## FuturePAF

Han Patriot said:


> I am in a shanghai yard now and some of the technicians here are already getting recruited to Dalian for a 'carrier' project.


Makes sense; Dalian is also close to where the PLAN SSN and SSBNs are made (at the Bohai Shipbuilding Heavy Industry Co., Huludao in Liaoning Province). Reference: Sub Brief video on the Type 093.

So the Dalian region will probably be where all Chinese Naval Nuclear related projects are built.


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## ChineseTiger1986

FuturePAF said:


> Makes sense; Dalian is also close to where the PLAN SSN and SSBNs are made (at the Bohai Shipbuilding Heavy Industry Co., Huludao in Liaoning Province). Reference: Sub Brief video on the Type 093.
> 
> So the Dalian region will probably be where all Chinese Naval Nuclear related projects are built.



The new facility for the Dalian shipyard will be completed by the end of the fourteenth five years plan (2021-2025).

They are now recruiting the staffs from the Jiangnan shipyard is for the pre-advanced preparation of the new aircraft carrier after 2025.

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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The new facility for the Dalian shipyard will be completed by the end of the fourteenth five years plan (2021-2025).
> 
> They are now recruiting the staffs from the Jiangnan shipyard is for the pre-advanced preparation of the new aircraft carrier after 2025.




That's exactly my guess too ... the PLAN will not start with the 004 until 003 isn't launched and at least went thru the first phase of testing!


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## ChineseTiger1986

Deino said:


> That's exactly my guess too ... the PLAN will not start with the 004 until 003 isn't launched and at least went thru the first phase of testing!



Maybe the next gen aircraft carrier?

Since the Type 003 could have 2 or 3 siblings of the same class, who knows.

The next gen aircraft carrier could be as late as the 2030s.


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## Deino

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Maybe the next gen aircraft carrier?
> 
> Since the Type 003 could have 2 or 3 siblings of the same class, who knows.
> 
> The next gen aircraft carrier could be as late as the 2030s.



With 004 I simply meant the next carrier, not necessarily the next class


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## Han Patriot

Deino said:


> That would be in fact the first hint I would rate as reliable!
> 
> Thanks my friend.


Actually I posted this last year before even the 003 was unveiled, nobody took me seriously. I believe they are building the blocks, they are not waiting for 003 to be completed.


johncliu88 said:


> If this is true, that means the Jiangnan shipyard is all full. Dalian will do the next carrier. From another source that I heard, Jiangnan shipyard will start another 8x 055 later on this year. Don't know if it is true or not.


I believe the next class is nuclear and it has already started

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## frequency

UKBengali said:


> China will end up with a carrier force as strong or even stronger than the US Navy.



That's impoossssibbbuuuuuuuhhhhh!!


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## Deino

Han Patriot said:


> Actually I posted this last year before even the 003 was unveiled, nobody took me seriously. I believe they are building the blocks, they are not waiting for 003 to be completed.




But will this one - then to be build at Dalian - follow the same system like the 003 in Shanghai per blocks or will Dalian build it still the traditional way like 002?


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## MajesticPug

frequency said:


> That's impoossssibbbuuuuuuuhhhhh!!



China won't ever build as large in number of ships as the USN, but stronger -- possible. The foundation of building a large navy is $$. When China's economy is much bigger than the US, how is it impossible to build a larger navy than the USN? Simple logic will tell you it's possible and doable. Nevertheless, the strategic goals of China are different than the American's. So I don't think China wants to sink more money than what the US already has.

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## vi-va

Deino said:


> But will this one - then to be build at Dalian - follow the same system like the 003 in Shanghai per blocks or will Dalian build it still the traditional way like 002?


My guess, next aircraft carrier will be the same as 003 with a little improvement. 2 carrier rotate, same training, same equipment, same maintenance. Both of which will be called 003 class.

The first carrier of 004 class will start building 5 years later, new design.

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## Shotgunner51

Yesterday two ships were launched from dock #3, one of them is this 240,000 tons ULCS built for Evergreen Marine Corp, and it used to 003's "big neighbour".

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## Han Patriot

Deino said:


> But will this one - then to be build at Dalian - follow the same system like the 003 in Shanghai per blocks or will Dalian build it still the traditional way like 002?


Not sure bro but carrier blocks are pretty much like any ship block, it's the subsystems that are complex.


----------



## Shotgunner51

Two green KJ-600 spotted at XAC compound

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## Song Hong



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## nang2

Song Hong said:


> View attachment 808204


Isn't it a bit old?

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## Deino

Song Hong said:


> View attachment 808204




Why posting a close to three months old image?


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## lcloo

There is the 3rd KJ-600 in satellite image of same date.

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## Deino

This image allegedly taken from within the last two days reveal that - as reported - the ship section behind the Type 003 aircraft carrier has been moved out.
Additionally it appears as if at least one elevator is installed. 

(Image via tiancai8888/SDF)


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## GiantPanda

Deino said:


> This image allegedly taken from within the last two days reveal that - as reported - the ship section behind the Type 003 aircraft carrier has been moved out.
> Additionally it appears as if at least one elevator is installed.
> 
> (Image via tiancai8888/SDF)
> 
> View attachment 808498



Amazing that the section could sail because looked open on both ends.

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## Shotgunner51

J-15T

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## Wergeland

Any updates from our chinese members?


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## Polestar 2

Wergeland said:


> Any updates from our chinese members?


I think the CPC give those involved in Type003 a big long holiday for CNY period.

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## Deino

Finally ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497113006400016384

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## johncliu88

Deino said:


> Finally ...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497113006400016384


Thanks for sharing. The covers for the cats look much thicker than the ones before. Are they for winter?


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## Shotgunner51

Credit: @高山CG

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## Polestar 2

Deino said:


> Finally ...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497113006400016384


Big problem and heavy delay. The catapult installation takes too long to complete. The ship shall be on water now.


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## Deino

Polestar 2 said:


> Big problem and heavy delay. The catapult installation takes too long to complete. The ship shall be on water now.




No, the ship is surely ready to hit the water and in India it surely would already be, but did you check how long the installation of a catapult - especially an EMALS - took in the USA? So I'm sure there is no delay and some of us are only too impatient.

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## lcloo

The ship is basically ready to be launched any time now. Our impatient is tested by the shipyard and PLAN work schedule planners who are at their leisure to decide the launch date.

More important now is when will the sea trial begin? I am expecting that the longer the ship stays in dry dock the less there'll will be out-fitting time because some of the works normally done after launched are being carried out in dry dock now.

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## casual

Shotgunner51 said:


> J-15T
> 
> View attachment 809675


wonder if there will be an EW variant of the J-15 like the J-16D


----------



## Shotgunner51

casual said:


> wonder if there will be an EW variant of the J-15 like the J-16D


Absolutely, I believe J-15 EW variant is an integral part of the air wing, some pics on the web:





__





Shenyang J-15 aircraft carrier-based aircraft


And again some PLAN J-15 news: With no. 74 - seen here together with no. 67 - and no. 69 are again three more J-15s confirmed ... also no. 74 is the so far highest number seen. (Images via Huitong's CMA-Blog)



defence.pk








__





Shenyang J-15 aircraft carrier-based aircraft


Via @人民海军 and @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo



defence.pk

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## Shotgunner51



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## lcloo

Both aircraft lifts seem to have been installed.

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## Han93

possible set to launch on April 23 Navy day??? maybe??


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## johncliu88

Han93 said:


> possible set to launch on April 23 Navy day??? maybe??


Or, it may not be lunched until everything is installed, then it will be lunched and go for sea trial. Anyway, the yard is so full and 003 may be lunched earlier for new ship built.


----------



## Shotgunner51



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## Shotgunner51



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## johncliu88

Shotgunner51 said:


> View attachment 829323


Wow! It looks like all the CATs are well installed. Some medias are talking about she will be launched on April 23, it may be possible now. Thanks for sharing the great picture.

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## siegecrossbow

johncliu88 said:


> Wow! It looks like all the CATs are well installed. Some medias are talking about she will be launched on April 23, it may be possible now. Thanks for sharing the great picture.



COVID has delayed progress.

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## Polestar 2

siegecrossbow said:


> COVID has delayed progress.


Maybe even whether April 23 of launching this carrier is still a question mark. Massive lock down in Shanghai now.


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## Shotgunner51

siegecrossbow said:


> COVID has delayed progress.





Polestar 2 said:


> Maybe even whether April 23 of launching this carrier is still a question mark. Massive lock down in Shanghai now.





johncliu88 said:


> Wow! It looks like all the CATs are well installed. Some medias are talking about she will be launched on April 23, it may be possible now. Thanks for sharing the great picture.


Chatter on weibo says 003 gonna miss the Navy Day (23 April), yes the delay due to Shanghai Covid lockdown, damn it!

This was Nay Day 2021:

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## johncliu88

Shotgunner51 said:


> Chatter on weibo says 003 gonna miss the Navy Day (23 April), yes the delay due to Shanghai Covid lockdown, damn it!
> 
> This was Nay Day 2021:
> 
> View attachment 830043


Yeap, I heard the news too. It will be push till the end of May.


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## Deino

According to some rumours the 003 carrier will be launched on 3rd June

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## Deino

Deino said:


> According to some rumours the 003 carrier will be launched on 3rd June



here is more …

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## lightning F57

Which planes will this carrier hold.


----------



## siegecrossbow

lightning F57 said:


> Which planes will this carrier hold.



Catapult launched J-15 variant and later, J-35. KJ-600 will be supported as well.

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## johncliu88

siegecrossbow said:


> Catapult launched J-15 variant and later, J-35. KJ-600 will be supported as well.


Some helicopters as well.


----------



## MajesticPug

Deino said:


> According to some rumours the 003 carrier will be launched on 3rd June



I thought you've been busy shooting down rumors?

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## Deino

MajesticPug said:


> I thought you've been busy shooting down rumors?




Depends on who started a rumour!

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## siegecrossbow

johncliu88 said:


> Some helicopters as well.



If you wanna go that route UCAVs are likely supported.

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## Luosifen

PLA Navy implies imminent launch of China's 3rd aircraft carrier - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn





Global Times hints the new carrier will be named Jiangsu.

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## Luosifen

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202204/1260040.shtml

Per Global Times again, work on the carrier resumed this Saturday after COVID restrictions lifted.

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## JSCh

Shanghai is currently still under lockdown, with over ten of thousand of cases daily, but plateauing and trending down.

Imagine once it reach near or close to zero covid and opening up, launching of 003 would probably be a morale booster.

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## johncliu88

JSCh said:


> Shanghai is currently still under lockdown, with over ten of thousand of cases daily, but plateauing and trending down.
> 
> Imagine once it reach near or close to zero covid and opening up, launching of 003 would probably be a morale booster.


The latest schedule update from some Chinese sources saying that the launch ceremony will be on June 3, which is the anniversary of Jiangnan ship yard.

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## Deino

johncliu88 said:


> The latest schedule update from some Chinese sources saying that the launch ceremony will be on June 3, which is the anniversary of Jiangnan ship yard.




You are late to the party!  





__





Type 00X/003 (former Type 002) Aircraft Carrier News & Discussions






defence.pk

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## johncliu88

Deino said:


> You are late to the party!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Type 00X/003 (former Type 002) Aircraft Carrier News & Discussions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


Yes, you posted earlier but I did not see that. Also, I just learned it from a video on Youtube last night.


----------



## LKJ86

Via @现代舰船官方微博 from Weibo

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## ChineseTiger1986

POP3 hints that China's nuclear supercarrier will be ready soon.

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## S10

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> POP3 hints that China's nuclear supercarrier will be ready soon.
> 
> 
> View attachment 843506



Ready for construction

Even if they start building it today, it would take 4 to 5 years before it enters service.


----------



## Deino

S10 said:


> Ready for construction
> 
> Even if they start building it today, it would take 4 to 5 years before it enters service.




No, it would two years, until we a first module, two more at least for construction and then one more for fitting out! And only THEN sea trials could start which for a whole new system would surely again add another or more years so at best in 7+ years a serivce entry.

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## vi-va

Deino said:


> No, it would two years, until we a first module, two more at least for construction and then one more for fitting out! And only THEN sea trials could start which for a whole new system would surely again add another or more years so at best in 7+ years a serivce entry.


I hope next one will be similar design of Queen Elizabeth class

Nuclear power pack is unnecessary and expensive, high maintenance, waste of money and time.

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## MH.Yang

vi-va said:


> I hope next one will be similar design of Queen Elizabeth class
> 
> Nuclear power pack is unnecessary and expensive, high maintenance, waste of money and time.



If considering the maintenance cost of fighter and electronic instruments, nuclear powered aircraft carriers are cheaper than conventional aircraft carriers. 
Sooner or later, we will use nuclear powered aircraft carriers, which is a historical necessity.


----------



## Wergeland

MH.Yang said:


> If considering the maintenance cost of fighter and electronic instruments, nuclear powered aircraft carriers are cheaper than conventional aircraft carriers.
> Sooner or later, we will use nuclear powered aircraft carriers, which is a historical necessity.



The single biggest benefit is the virtually unlimited range of nuclear carriers.


----------



## S10

Deino said:


> No, it would two years, until we a first module, two more at least for construction and then one more for fitting out! And only THEN sea trials could start which for a whole new system would surely again add another or more years so at best in 7+ years a serivce entry.



I would think China could outfit a carrier a lot faster. Look at the amount of time it took to refit 001, compared to building 002 and 003. The intervals are getting shorter each time. When they streamline the process and design, they likely to churn it out faster.

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## Polestar 2

Wergeland said:


> The single biggest benefit is the virtually unlimited range of nuclear carriers.


Yes, it can have unlimited range but can't have unlimited food, ammunition (bombs and missiles) and aviation fuel. There are 5000 personnel onboard an USN aircraft carrier. The food onboard can last maximum 30 days only.

Unlike SSBN which has only max 100 crew onboard and food onboard can even last a year without surfacing plus their mission are to fire all nuke ICBM to destroy other nation which unlike aircraft carrier which missions are to carry out hundreds of sorties to support land operation. That means replenishment of aviation bombs and aviation fuel are often which cancel off the advantage of nuclear power carrier.

A well trained navy can carry out ship fuel, food and aviation ammunition replenishment together for an aircraft carrier at the same time. A big reason why USN prefer nuclear carrier is the need to cut down number of boiler and make more space for more equipment.

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## Wergeland

Polestar 2 said:


> Yes, it can have unlimited range but can't have unlimited food, ammunition (bombs and missiles) and aviation fuel. There are 5000 personnel onboard an USN aircraft carrier. The food onboard can last maximum 30 days only.



True.
That also applies to non-nuclear CV’s.
The difference is that nuclear CV’s dont have to refuel for years, giving it a strategic advantage in case refueling options are limited. If it goes empty of fuel for its aviation wing or/and denied access to aviation fuel, it can in theory always return to home port regardless.


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## vi-va

MH.Yang said:


> If considering the maintenance cost of fighter and electronic instruments, nuclear powered aircraft carriers are cheaper than conventional aircraft carriers.
> Sooner or later, we will use nuclear powered aircraft carriers, which is a historical necessity.





Wergeland said:


> The single biggest benefit is the virtually unlimited range of nuclear carriers.


I disagree.

The destroyers are conventional, the idea of unlimited range is just a myth. Not to mention food, ammunition. The so-called unlimited range is unrealistic and unnecessary.

The regular maintenance doesn't include fighters, fighters can be replaced by spare ones. 

Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) maintenace is relatively much lower than conventional steam piston.

Queen Elizabeth class is so far the best design of future aircraft carrier. 

U.S. stick to nuclear power pack due to politics and interest group, as well as apportioned cost of nuclear subs.

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## ozranger

Polestar 2 said:


> Yes, it can have unlimited range but can't have unlimited food, ammunition (bombs and missiles) and aviation fuel. There are 5000 personnel onboard an USN aircraft carrier. The food onboard can last maximum 30 days only.
> 
> Unlike SSBN which has only max 100 crew onboard and food onboard can even last a year without surfacing plus their mission are to fire all nuke ICBM to destroy other nation which unlike aircraft carrier which missions are to carry out hundreds of sorties to support land operation. That means replenishment of aviation bombs and aviation fuel are often which cancel off the advantage of nuclear power carrier.
> 
> A well trained navy can carry out ship fuel, food and aviation ammunition replenishment together for an aircraft carrier at the same time. A big reason why USN prefer nuclear carrier is the need to cut down number of boiler and make more space for more equipment.



After decades of actual operations of modern carriers by USN, it becomes pretty obvious that nuclear powered carriers are having poorer battle readiness and higher maintenance costs compared to ones with conventional power, despite their unlimited sailing distances.

Remember nuclear powered carriers are not necessarily having greater power outputs than conventional ones. Looking at historical data, USN operated Nimitz-class aircraft carriers with only propulsion power output 260,000 shp (194 MW) while Kitty Hawk has 280,000 shp (210 MW).

However, by the moment, USN can only rely on nuclear powered carriers as America's national goal is maintaining their global hegemony and a single carrier task group can already crush air defense of a small country at ease. Nonetheless this kind of strategy in my opinion might not work well for today's competition with China in Pacific and Indian Oceans.

PLAN does need carriers. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to create encirclement around Taiwan with strong physical deployment which can only be challenged by USN. What it means is, PLAN will use carriers to hold some positions in the sea. Then US can only intervene by also sending their carriers for a confrontation. Therefore China can use such a stand-off to check if the US would like to have some miscalculation. DDGs will not work well in this situation as you will need fighter jets to expel US warplanes in real time during the stand-off. China's wartime goal is create a formidable no-fly-zone over the Taiwan island together with support from land based aircrafts and rocket forces, as shown in the recent carrier Liaoning's drill.
PLAN does not rely on carriers to sink US carriers. So all the fighter jets on their carriers can be dedicated for air defense when in great sea battles, which makes them vastly different to the US carriers.

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## Luosifen

A conventionally powered carrier needs more frequent at sea replenishment than a nuclear one, during which time it is restricted in speed and maneuverability and puts it at risk of potential attack. That resupply ship also needs to service the escorts, so with a nuclear carrier the overall endurance of the battle group is improved since diesel/gas fuel for the ship engines needs to be shared with one less vessel (which also consumes that fuel at a faster rate than its escorts).







That type 901 resupply ship could also allocate more storage space for jet fuel if dealing with a CVN.


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## vi-va

ozranger said:


> After decades of actual operations of modern carriers by USN, it becomes pretty obvious that nuclear powered carriers are having poorer battle readiness and higher maintenance costs compared to ones with conventional power, despite their unlimited sailing distances.
> 
> Remember nuclear powered carriers are not necessarily having greater power outputs than conventional ones. Looking at historical data, USN operated Nimitz-class aircraft carriers with only propulsion power output 260,000 shp (194 MW) while Kitty Hawk has 280,000 shp (210 MW).
> 
> However, by the moment, USN can only rely on nuclear powered carriers as America's national goal is maintaining their global hegemony and a single carrier task group can already crush air defense of a small country at ease. Nonetheless this kind of strategy in my opinion might not work well for today's competition with China in Pacific and Indian Oceans.
> 
> PLAN does need carriers. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to create encirclement around Taiwan with strong physical deployment which can only be challenged by USN. What it means is, PLAN will use carriers to hold some positions in the sea. Then US can only intervene by also sending their carriers for a confrontation. Therefore China can use such a stand-off to check if the US would like to have some miscalculation. DDGs will not work well in this situation as you will need fighter jets to expel US warplanes in real time during the stand-off. China's wartime goal is create a formidable no-fly-zone over the Taiwan island together with support from land based aircrafts and rocket forces, as shown in the recent carrier Liaoning's drill.
> PLAN does not rely on carriers to sink US carriers. So all the fighter jets on their carriers carriers can be dedicated for air defense when in great sea battles, which makes them vastly different to the US carriers.


Agree.

Aircraft carrier played a big role in sea dominance after WW2, not anymore.

Aircraft carrier is like main battle tank in land attack, still necessarily to have, but gradually outdated. There are many kinds of aircraft carrier killer, and there will be more and more, better killers.

The sea dominance does NOT rely on aircraft carrier anymore, what's the point of having an extremely expensive, fragile nuclear carrier?

Carrier is still one of the best platform for power projection, especially for bullying small, medium countries. 

In the case of great power confrontation, carrier is so fragile and easy to be destroyed in frontline. 

Bomber is the future carrier, the sea dominator.


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## mili

In 2020s, China's priority is western Pacific, conventional carriers are good, especially cost/benefit.
In 2030s, when priority is eastern Pacific or even Atlantic, then nuclear may be way to go.

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## flowerfan2020

vi-va said:


> Agree.
> 
> Aircraft carrier played a big role in sea dominance after WW2, not anymore.
> 
> Aircraft carrier is like main battle tank in land attack, still necessarily to have, but gradually outdated. There are many kinds of aircraft carrier killer, and there will be more and more, better killers.
> 
> The sea dominance does NOT rely on aircraft carrier anymore, what's the point of having an extremely expensive, fragile nuclear carrier?
> 
> Carrier is still one of the best platform for power projection, especially for bullying small, medium countries.
> 
> In the case of great power confrontation, carrier is so fragile and easy to be destroyed in frontline.
> 
> Bomber is the future carrier, the sea dominator.


What a foolish post. I really think you are a U.S agent.


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## kungfugymnast

vi-va said:


> Agree.
> 
> Aircraft carrier played a big role in sea dominance after WW2, not anymore.
> 
> Aircraft carrier is like main battle tank in land attack, still necessarily to have, but gradually outdated. There are many kinds of aircraft carrier killer, and there will be more and more, better killers.
> 
> The sea dominance does NOT rely on aircraft carrier anymore, what's the point of having an extremely expensive, fragile nuclear carrier?
> 
> Carrier is still one of the best platform for power projection, especially for bullying small, medium countries.
> 
> In the case of great power confrontation, carrier is so fragile and easy to be destroyed in frontline.
> 
> Bomber is the future carrier, the sea dominator.


Aircraft carrier is not like main battle tank but more of mobile surface to surface missile platform that could deliver heavy punch package to somewhere far beyond reach of fixed stationary based missiles launcher. Aircraft carrier is not outdated if the fighters it carries could fly far beyond 500nm to deliver missiles/bombs, destroying enemy ships and killing enemy fighters, bombers before they get into effective anti-ship or cruise missiles range threatening the carrier fleet bringing the fight further away from home country shore. If fighters combat radius only barely 300nm then it would make the aircraft carrier obsolete being too close to enemy fighters, bombers, ships. Navalized fighters ideal combat radius today is to have 900nm. 

Bomber is getting obsolete as it lacks air to air capability, even with stealth, if the enemy is country such as US or China, they could detect incoming stealth bomber and scramble fighters to intercept. Answer to bomber today is large fighter bomber that has AESA radar, able to pull 5G and carry air to air and air to ground missiles apart from having powerful ECM and carrying lots of chaff/flare having ferry range of over 5000Nm. 

Anyone knows what is the latest update of Type 003? There's no further follow up lately and the J-15B/D top speed will not finalize without the EMALS launch carrier operational.



mili said:


> In 2020s, China's priority is western Pacific, conventional carriers are good, especially cost/benefit.
> In 2030s, when priority is eastern Pacific or even Atlantic, then nuclear may be way to go.



Ya, betul, benar sekali. Conventional aircraft carrier is for home shore to middle range defensive/offensive operations while Nuclear powered aircraft carrier is mainly for long range offensive operations



flowerfan2020 said:


> What a foolish post. I really think you are a U.S agent.



viva is not US agent, he is telling facts from neutral perspective


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## kungfugymnast

Ukraine war lessons spur China military shipbuilding surge: experts


Satellite images confirm reports shipyards are rushing to complete aircraft carrier and other warships delayed by pandemic.




www.scmp.com





Minnie Chan from SCMP posted articles on Type 003 resuming construction. Hope it will complete construction the soonest

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## Deino

Maybe a hint for next week‘s launch?

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## onebyone

https://mobile.twitter.com/home


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## Deino

Seems as if at least in LEGO or MegaBloks the launch ceremony for the Type 003 aircraft carrier is prepared! 😅

(Image via @捣蛋就捣蛋 from Weibo)

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## JSCh

*Shanghai-based shipyard in full swing as Omicron abates, 'ready for launch of 3rd aircraft carrier'*
By Liu Xuanzun
Published: May 31, 2022 09:29 PM





The picture shows aircraft carrier Shandong berths at a naval port in Sanya. China's first domestically-made aircraft carrier Shandong (Hull 17) was officially commissioned to the PLA Navy at a military port in Sanya, South China's Hainan Province, on the afternoon of December 17, 2019, making China one of the few countries in the world that have multiple carriers. Photo:China Military

In a significant achievement of work resumption after the latest COVID-19 resurgence in Shanghai, the Jiangnan Shipyard on Monday launched three new ships and readied two ships for next stage of construction, with the shipbuilder vowing to make up for lost time and complete all production missions on time.

At this rate, China's third aircraft carrier, reportedly also being built at the shipyard, could be launched soon, observers said on Tuesday.

Three ships exited their docks and two were floated from the third and fourth dockyards of the Jiangnan Shipyard on Monday, the shipbuilder said in a press release posted on its WeChat account.

The ships involved were a very large container ship, two very large ethane carriers and two very large gas carriers, according to the press release. This is the first time the Jiangnan Shipyard has achieved such a multi-ship launch involving two dockyards since this year's epidemic, it said.

"With the full work resumption approaching, we will ride the wave, and continue to use innovative methods to boost efficiency so we can make up for lost time as much as possible and finish all scheduled production missions of the year," the press release quoted the head of production as saying.

In late April, the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy released a promotional video on China's aircraft carrier program, in which it implied that the country's third aircraft carrier will be officially revealed soon.

Overseas media previously reported that the carrier was originally planned to be launched on April 23 to celebrate the PLA Navy's 73rd founding anniversary, but it had to be postponed due to the current COVID-19 resurgence in Shanghai.

With the work resumption at the Jiangnan Shipyard, as demonstrated by its latest ship launches, the third aircraft carrier could be launched soon, a Chinese military expert told the Global Times on Tuesday, requesting anonymity.

Based on the general pattern of shipbuilding, some outfitting work of a ship can be done either before launch or after launch. This means the Jiangnan Shipyard and the PLA Navy can choose when to launch the carrier once its construction has reached a certain level, the expert said.

Reports of some media outlets including the South China Morning Post on Tuesday speculated that the launch could take place on Friday, coinciding with the Dragon Boat Festival.

The construction of the third aircraft carrier was first confirmed by an official report in November 2018. The Xinhua News Agency reported at the time that a new type of aircraft carrier was in construction in an orderly manner on berth.

It is widely believed that China's third carrier will be larger than the previous two carriers, and it will likely use electromagnetic catapults to replace the previous two carriers' ski-jump ramps to launch aircraft.

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## johncliu88

Deino said:


> Seems as if at least in LEGO or MegaBloks the launch ceremony for the Type 003 aircraft carrier is prepared! 😅
> 
> (Image via @捣蛋就捣蛋 from Weibo)
> 
> 
> View attachment 849188


Let's keep our fingers crossed and see if she will be in water soon.

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## Deino

johncliu88 said:


> Let's keep our fingers crossed and see if she will be in water soon.




So what do you think? Will it happen on 3rd June??


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## johncliu88

Deino said:


> So what do you think? Will it happen on 3rd June??


Hard to say. Some people said that the launch schedule may be postponed to August 1. And of course, I really want to see her in water on June 3.

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## Deino

Allegedly this seems to be the most recent image available showing the Jiangnan shipyard and indeed several ships built around the carrier have been moved And relocated. 

However will the carrier indeed be ready for launch on 3rd June? 🤔

(Image via @CHINAPLA1 on Twitter)


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## Akasa



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## Deino

Akasa said:


> View attachment 849936




But again, this is *NOT *real!!

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## Deino

Deino said:


> But again, this is *NOT *real!!





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531954665901916160

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## Deino

Well, finally a really fine recent image of the Type 003 carrier taken on 31 May ... 😯

But IMO that does not look like a launch on 3 June! :-( 

(Image by @Maxar via @CSIS)

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## tonyget

The shack on top of catapult still not removed，I don't think the ship is ready to launch until the surface is cleared

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## MajesticPug

Deino said:


> Well, finally a really fine recent image of the Type 003 carrier taken on 31 May ... 😯
> 
> But IMO that does not look like a launch on 3 June! :-(
> 
> (Image by @Maxar via @CSIS)
> 
> 
> View attachment 850397


I agree. It's not going to be launched 6/3rd. The date is an arbitrary date some fans speculate to coincide with a Chinese Dragon Boat Day. Correct me if I'm wrong: there wasn't an official announcement on when the launch will be.


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## Deino

MajesticPug said:


> I agree. It's not going to be launched 6/3rd. The date is an arbitrary date some fans speculate to coincide with a Chinese Dragon Boat Day. Correct me if I'm wrong: there wasn't an official announcement on when the launch will be.



Yes, but there wasn‘t also an official announcement before the Shandong was launched AFAIR


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## sheik

MajesticPug said:


> I agree. It's not going to be launched 6/3rd. The date is an arbitrary date some fans speculate to coincide with a Chinese Dragon Boat Day. Correct me if I'm wrong: there wasn't an official announcement on when the launch will be.



The date 6/3 is not just the Dragon Boat Festival, it is also the 157th anniversary of the Jiangnan Shipyard. It's not just arbitrary.
However, I am not sure if the big boat will launch on that day.

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## Deino

Latest image of the Type 003 carrier and so it seems, no launch today!




(Image via @kj_pr9 / Twitter)

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## Wergeland

Cant wait to see it being launched.
When combat ready this Beast will be on par with latest US carriers. Especially when its ultra modern air wing is taken into account. To not talk about those type055 escorts packed with state of the art AshBM and even hypersonic missiles.

I hope China one day can agree to host a Naval Base in Chittagong, Bangladesh. Would be amazing to have visits from Carriers, protecting Bay of Bengal.

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## Polestar 2

Yes, hopefully next week will be launched.

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## Luosifen

Wergeland said:


> Cant wait to see it being launched.
> When combat ready this Beast will be on par with latest US carriers. Especially when its ultra modern air wing is taken into account. To not talk about those type055 escorts packed with state of the art AshBM and even hypersonic missiles.
> 
> I hope China one day can agree to host a Naval Base in Chittagong, Bangladesh. Would be amazing to have visits from Carriers, protecting Bay of Bengal.


I'd say it'll take type 004 to match US carriers, 003 is only 3 catapults and 2 elevators and non-nuclear. It should be technically superior to all the non-US carriers currently in operation, but it will still be years before the ship and its air wings will be operationally ready.

As for hosting a naval base in Bangladesh, I feel staying neutral and not hosting bases of any other nation would serve its national interest best. You can still invite other navies to come for friendly visits without picking sides.


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## Polestar 2

Luosifen said:


> I'd say it'll take type 004 to match US carriers, 003 is only 3 catapults and 2 elevators and non-nuclear. It should be technically superior to all the non-US carriers currently in operation, but it will still be years before the ship and its air wings will be operationally ready.
> 
> As for hosting a naval base in Bangladesh, I feel staying neutral and not hosting bases of any other nation would serve its national interest best. You can still invite other navies to come for friendly visits without picking sides.


You shall be aware USS Gerald Ford aircraft carrier has a very problematic electric catapult which they couldn't even solve the issue until today.

Type003 might be the real world first electric catapult aircraft carrier put into operation. The number of elevator just proves Chinese is confident of their electric system.

Don't just by looking an aircraft carrier is nuclear or not and deem which one is better or not. If that is the case, French Charles de Gaulle shall be the best aircraft carrier despite only capable of 25knots and a size even smaller than CV-16 Liaoning?

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## kungfugymnast

Luosifen said:


> I'd say it'll take type 004 to match US carriers, 003 is only 3 catapults and 2 elevators and non-nuclear. It should be technically superior to all the non-US carriers currently in operation, but it will still be years before the ship and its air wings will be operationally ready.
> 
> As for hosting a naval base in Bangladesh, I feel staying neutral and not hosting bases of any other nation would serve its national interest best. You can still invite other navies to come for friendly visits without picking sides.



Type 004 and 005 will most likely be sister ship to Type 003 so they won't be nuclear powered. China needed more carriers in short time so by the time nuclear powered aircraft carrier completed R & D entering service, it would be Type 006, 007 or 008 already.



Polestar 2 said:


> You shall be aware USS Gerald Ford aircraft carrier has a very problematic electric catapult which they couldn't even solve the issue until today.
> 
> Type003 might be the real world first electric catapult aircraft carrier put into operation. The number of elevator just proves Chinese is confident of their electric system.
> 
> Don't just by looking an aircraft carrier is nuclear or not and deem which one is better or not. If that is the case, French Charles de Gaulle shall be the best aircraft carrier despite only capable of 25knots and a size even smaller than CV-16 Liaoning?


Charles De Gaulle is not better than phased out old US aircraft carrier. It's just being built out of necessity as replacement for Clemenceau aircraft carrier to protect French colony in the south. For operating CTOL aircraft, the Charles De Gaulle is better than Liaoning mainly because it has CATOBAR. Liaoning and Shandong class aircraft carriers are only good for STOVL/VSTOL/VTOL, helicopters and drones.


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## Luosifen

Polestar 2 said:


> You shall be aware USS Gerald Ford aircraft carrier has a very problematic electric catapult which they couldn't even solve the issue until today.
> 
> Type003 might be the real world first electric catapult aircraft carrier put into operation. The number of elevator just proves Chinese is confident of their electric system.
> 
> Don't just by looking an aircraft carrier is nuclear or not and deem which one is better or not. If that is the case, French Charles de Gaulle shall be the best aircraft carrier despite only capable of 25knots and a size even smaller than CV-16 Liaoning?


Yes I'm aware of the many problems Gerald Ford has, even so I'll stay on the conservative side and say that 003 is still less capable of power projection compared to the USN carriers, otherwise they wouldn't have to bother with type 004 and just crank 003s like dumplings. Nuclear/non-nuclear is only one factor among others, CDG is limited by only 2 catapults and a smaller hangar size so I ranked 003 above it in capabilities.

I have not heard any sources putting 004 as being non-nuclear, if you have anything definitive I'd like to have a look.


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## Polestar 2

kungfugymnast said:


> Type 004 and 005 will most likely be sister ship to Type 003 so they won't be nuclear powered. China needed more carriers in short time so by the time nuclear powered aircraft carrier completed R & D entering service, it would be Type 006, 007 or 008 already.
> 
> 
> Charles De Gaulle is not better than phased out old US aircraft carrier. It's just being built out of necessity as replacement for Clemenceau aircraft carrier to protect French colony in the south. For operating CTOL aircraft, the Charles De Gaulle is better than Liaoning mainly because it has CATOBAR. Liaoning and Shandong class aircraft carriers are only good for STOVL/VSTOL/VTOL, helicopters and drones.


I don't think Charles de Gaulle is better than CV-16 Liaoning just becos it's nuclear or catapult. You shall be aware it's a much smaller aircraft carrier with limited hangar capacity. An aircraft carrier size matter and is also an indication of it's capabilities due to abilities to hold more aircraft which gives them more asset. 

Charles de Gaulle 25 knots max speed is also a factor weakness( compare to Liaoning 30 knots) which will hinder some ops and fast reaction deployment.

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## sheik

kungfugymnast said:


> Type 004 and 005 will most likely be sister ship to Type 003 so they won't be nuclear powered. China needed more carriers in short time so by the time nuclear powered aircraft carrier completed R & D entering service, it would be Type 006, 007 or 008 already.
> 
> 
> Charles De Gaulle is not better than phased out old US aircraft carrier. It's just being built out of necessity as replacement for Clemenceau aircraft carrier to protect French colony in the south. For operating CTOL aircraft, the Charles De Gaulle is better than Liaoning mainly because it has CATOBAR. Liaoning and Shandong class aircraft carriers are only good for STOVL/VSTOL/VTOL, helicopters and drones.



When you talked about Type 00x, you mean Number x right? I don't think China will build only one for each Type of the carriers.


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## GiantPanda

sheik said:


> When you talked about Type 00x, you mean Number x right? I don't think China will build only one for each Type of the carriers.



That guy had been talking nonsense for years. He's either an Indian false-flagger or maybe Taiwanese. His opinions on Chinese military stuff are bizarre, outrageous and retarded -- maybe done so deliberately to create a sense of fanboi-ism to de-rail threads.

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## kungfugymnast

sheik said:


> When you talked about Type 00x, you mean Number x right? I don't think China will build only one for each Type of the carriers.



I clearly mentioned Type 004 and 005 will most likely be sister ships to Type 003 which means Type 004 and 005 will be Type 003 with different numbers to distinguish. Like US aircraft carriers, CVN-68 USS Nimitz, CVN-69 USS Eisenhower, CVN-70 USS Carl Vinson are all the same ships but different names & designated number, they are called sisters ships.



GiantPanda said:


> That guy had been talking nonsense for years. He's either an Indian false-flagger or maybe Taiwanese. His opinions on Chinese military stuff are bizarre, outrageous and retarded -- maybe done so deliberately to create a sense of fanboi-ism to de-rail threads.


You don't understand the word "Sister ships"? Go find out before you condemn


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## kungfugymnast

Polestar 2 said:


> I don't think Charles de Gaulle is better than CV-16 Liaoning just becos it's nuclear or catapult. You shall be aware it's a much smaller aircraft carrier with limited hangar capacity. An aircraft carrier size matter and is also an indication of it's capabilities due to abilities to hold more aircraft which gives them more asset.
> 
> Charles de Gaulle 25 knots max speed is also a factor weakness( compare to Liaoning 30 knots) which will hinder some ops and fast reaction deployment.



Charles De Gaulle is slow and small but it could propel a fully loaded aircraft to take off safely thanks to CATOBAR. French made the carrier mainly to protect its colony abroad to the south not far away and French did not expect to fight powerful enemy especially there's US and NATO alliance therefore they made the aircraft carrier for economy and low maintenance. Besides, the Rafale M is relatively small compared to F/A-18C at 57ft long with 37ft wingspan able to fit 40x Rafales at max on the carrier. The Rafale M could easily take off via CATOBAR and land thanks to low speed stability and maneuverability from its less aerodynamic design suited for carrier landing. By the way, it is nuclear powered and ships don't really go full 30 knots unless really needed which is rare like aircraft mostly never get to fly at its max speed, just smooth sailing. The Rafale is not a fast interceptor neither with slower cruise speed than most 4th generation fighters. 

In comparison, Type 001 and 002 are only suitable for STOVL/VSTOL/VTOL aircraft. They are just not efficient for CTOL aircraft without CATOBAR or EMALS which is why they'll be reassigned after Type003 entering active service. Type 002 Shandong Class already being converted to drone carrier while having space for future STOVL fighters. Type 001 Liaoning will serve its role until Type 003 is fully operational with all its fighter wings onboard (J-15B/D, J-35, KJ-600 along with transport & ASW helicopters Z-8/20 .


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## sheik

kungfugymnast said:


> I clearly mentioned Type 004 and 005 will most likely be sister ships to Type 003 which means Type 004 and 005 will be Type 003 with different numbers to distinguish. Like US aircraft carriers, CVN-68 USS Nimitz, CVN-69 USS Eisenhower, CVN-70 USS Carl Vinson are all the same ships but different names & designated number, they are called sisters ships.
> 
> 
> You don't understand the word "Sister ships"? Go find out before you condemn


Apparently you don't have the concept of Class and Type when you talk about ships.

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## samsara

GiantPanda said:


> That guy had been talking nonsense for years. He's either an Indian false-flagger or maybe Taiwanese. His opinions on Chinese military stuff are bizarre, outrageous and retarded -- maybe done so deliberately to create a sense of fanboi-ism to de-rail threads.


So true, I guess that moniker just wanna derail the Chinese military threads with all the bizarre, outrageous and retarded posts over years... there is no effective Mod function here to correct such member behavior to not derail the thread with repeated junks! (Sorry, just cf. SDF) Such overseeing function is important to prevent some particular member(s) to spoil the forum! I hope PDF will rectify this weakness soon.

Imagine some new visitors to this Main Chinese Military thread on the 3rd Aircraft Carrier just to find it's flooded with junks... what do they think of PDF???

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## Deino

According to some reports, this image is the most recent one showing the Type 003 carrier at Jiangnan Changxing shipyard in Shanghai.
Interesting, the scaffolding around the island is gone.

(Image via @蓑蓑雨任平生sjs from Weibo)

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## lcloo

Deino said:


> According to some reports, this image is the most recent one showing the Type 003 carrier at Jiangnan Changxing shipyard in Shanghai.
> Interesting, the scaffolding around the island is gone.
> 
> (Image via @蓑蓑雨任平生sjs from Weibo)
> 
> View attachment 852918


Interesting, walkway connecting dockside to the bow of 003 has been removed. Also the water barrier that separete the dry dock into two has been removed as well. Launch in the middle of June?

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## johncliu88

Deino said:


> According to some reports, this image is the most recent one showing the Type 003 carrier at Jiangnan Changxing shipyard in Shanghai.
> Interesting, the scaffolding around the island is gone.
> 
> (Image via @蓑蓑雨任平生sjs from Weibo)
> 
> View attachment 852918


Beautiful! A lot of workers are working on the deck to clean up. I think the launch date should be very closed.

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## johncliu88

Someone made the picture more clear. It looks like the deck is opened again?


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## Deino

johncliu88 said:


> View attachment 853684
> 
> 
> Someone made the picture more clear. It looks like the deck is opened again?




No, that's an optical illusion mage by a wet deck in which the island mirrors itself

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## johncliu88

Deino said:


> No, that's an optical illusion mage by a wet deck in which the island mirrors itself


Got it and thanks for your explanation.

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## lcloo

Further progress has been noted. The dry dock has been flooded.....

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## lcloo

Shanghai tide table. The tide on June 15th and 16th are the highest for the next 30 days. So keep your fingers crossed. on the other hand, China MSA has not issued any announcement on navigation warning on waters around the shipyard, so don't put too much hope to see a launch.

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## Deino

A simply stunning image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier taken on 14 June.

Image by Planet Labs 
Report by BY JOSEPH TREVITHICK via 









New Chinese Aircraft Carrier's Dry Dock Is Flooded, Launch Imminent


China's highly anticipated new carrier is seen fully decorated with its dry dock filled for its debut in new satellite imagery.




www.thedrive.com

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## johncliu88

Deino said:


> A simply stunning image of the Type 003 aircraft carrier taken on 14 June.
> 
> Image by Planet Labs
> Report by BY JOSEPH TREVITHICK via
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Chinese Aircraft Carrier's Dry Dock Is Flooded, Launch Imminent
> 
> 
> China's highly anticipated new carrier is seen fully decorated with its dry dock filled for its debut in new satellite imagery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 853904
> View attachment 853905


Wow! Can't wait to see 003 launch moment! Thanks for the great picture.


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## lcloo

Besides the banners and the flags, the top deck of 003 has been painted a fresh layer of coating. and the 2 lifts previously painted in white is now having same colour of gray paint as the top deck.

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## Trevor Xue

lcloo said:


> Besides the banners and the flags, the top deck of 003 has been painted a fresh layer of coating. and the 2 lifts previously painted in white is now having same colour of gray paint as the top dec
> 
> 
> lcloo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Besides the banners and the flags, the top deck of 003 has been painted a fresh layer of coating. and the 2 lifts previously painted in white is now having same colour of gray paint as the top deck.
> 
> 
> 
> According to the Weibo, it is likely to be launched by June 16. It is said the Vice Chairman of CMC, Zhang Youxia has been arrived Shanghai.
Click to expand...


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## xuxu1457

johncliu88 said:


> View attachment 853684
> 
> 
> Someone made the picture more clear. It looks like the deck is opened again?


The shadow of the warship island😂


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## xuxu1457

It will be launched soon, the deck has been cleaned and flags have been hung.

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## Deino

And while the tense is raising on when - eventually on Friday as it seems - the Type 003 carrier is being launched … here another new image. Looks like some sort of small red flags all along on top of these shelters covering the catapults.

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## KampfAlwin

lol 003 just launched, and vikrant _still _hasn't entered service.

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## FuturePAF

It’s interesting how speculation on a Chinese project on PDF (as seen by the start of this thread) started in 2014, construction began in 2018, and launch is happening in 2022, with IOC probably achieved within the next 2 years. A ten year cycle that is replicated across many Chinese military projects if we go back to through the threads. Looking over the horizon at projects to come and how quickly speculation becomes reality; Just an interesting point and something to ponder about.

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## johncliu88

Deino said:


> And while the tense is raising on when - eventually on Friday as it seems - the Type 003 carrier is being launched … here another new image. Looks like some sort of small red flags all along on top of these shelters covering the catapults.
> 
> View attachment 854056


Nice picture and thanks for sharing. Someone zoomed into the top of the shelters and found out those are slogans written in Chinese.


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## Luosifen

Deino said:


> And while the tense is raising on when - eventually on Friday as it seems - the Type 003 carrier is being launched … here another new image. Looks like some sort of small red flags all along on top of these shelters covering the catapults.
> 
> View attachment 854056


Not flags, slogans in Mandarin:





Traditional way to read from right to left, top to bottom:

Realize the Party's goal of strengthening the military in the new era, and build the People's Army into a world-class military in all aspects

Strive to build a strong and modernized navy, and provide strong support for the realization of the Chinese dream and the dream of a strong Chinese military

Accelerate the construction of a world-class shipbuilding group with reasonable industrial structure, outstanding military core, leading quality and efficiency, and strong international competitiveness

This was posted from the other forum you're on.

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## johncliu88

Luosifen said:


> Not flags, slogans in Mandarin:
> 
> View attachment 854121
> 
> Traditional way to read from right to left, top to bottom:
> 
> Realize the Party's goal of strengthening the military in the new era, and build the People's Army into a world-class military in all aspects
> 
> Strive to build a strong and modernized navy, and provide strong support for the realization of the Chinese dream and the dream of a strong Chinese military
> 
> Accelerate the construction of a world-class shipbuilding group with reasonable industrial structure, outstanding military core, leading quality and efficiency, and strong international competitiveness
> 
> This was posted from the other forum you're on.


You got every single character figured out! This is wonderful. Thanks.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

KampfAlwin said:


> lol 003 just launched, and vikrant _still _hasn't entered service.



Vikrant uses foreign components. It is vulnerable to sanction. 003 is 100% domestic.


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## Trevor Xue

the tugboats are standby, it will be launched at about 3:00 pm (beijing time).

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## Trevor Xue

Trevor Xue said:


> the tugboats are standby, it will be launched at about 3:00 pm (beijing time).


It is launched, and named as Fujiang, a province across the Taiwan strait

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## Deino

Congratulation: In Shanghai, the Type 003 aircraft carrier was launched! 🥳🥂🍾

More hopefully soon.

(Image via @航空物语 from Weibo)

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## shi12jun



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## Luosifen

我国第三艘航空母舰下水【央视新闻报道】_哔哩哔哩_bilibili


央视新闻侵删, 视频播放量 4291、弹幕量 6、点赞数 126、投硬币枚数 6、收藏人数 9、转发人数 74, 视频作者 启海文歌, 作者简介...




www.bilibili.com





CV-18 Fujian launched, CCTV segment link above, guess the Jiangsu rumours were wrong.

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## Polestar 2

Luosifen said:


> 我国第三艘航空母舰下水【央视新闻报道】_哔哩哔哩_bilibili
> 
> 
> 央视新闻侵删, 视频播放量 4291、弹幕量 6、点赞数 126、投硬币枚数 6、收藏人数 9、转发人数 74, 视频作者 启海文歌, 作者简介...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bilibili.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CV-18 Fujian launched, CCTV segment link above, guess the Jiangsu rumours were wrong.


President Xi last time is the governor of Fujian. I guess this is one major factors in pushing Fujian for the aircraft carrier name. Plus they are trying to win the Taiwan card as many Taiwanese originated from this province.

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## lcloo

Pride of Hokkien Lang (People of Fujian). Me 50% Quanzhou and 50% Xiamen.

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## DF41



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## shi12jun



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## Polestar 2

lcloo said:


> Pride of Hokkien Lang (People of Fujian). Me 50% Quanzhou and 50% Xiamen.


I guess, north , central and south of China ,all has at least a name for major aircraft carrier. Fair and square. Wondering , will they name an inland province for an aircraft carrier? Imagine an aircraft carrier called Xinjiang.

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## LKJ86

China launches third aircraft carrier


China launches third aircraft carrier-



english.news.cn




China launches third aircraft carrier​Source: Xinhua
Editor: huaxia
2022-06-17 12:13:31

SHANGHAI, June 17 (Xinhua) -- China launched its third aircraft carrier, the Fujian, in Shanghai on Friday morning. The carrier, named after Fujian Province, was completely designed and built by the country.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @舰船知识 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

China launches third aircraft carrier


China launches third aircraft carrier-



english.news.cn




China launches third aircraft carrier​Source: Xinhua
Editor: huaxia
2022-06-17 13:25:45

SHANGHAI, June 17 (Xinhua) -- China launched its third aircraft carrier, the Fujian, in Shanghai on Friday. The carrier, named after Fujian Province, was completely designed and built by China.

The new carrier was put into the water at a launch ceremony that started at about 11 a.m.

Xu Qiliang, a member of the Political Bureau of the Communist Party of China Central Committee and vice chairman of the Central Military Commission (CMC), presented a naming certificate to the navy unit receiving the carrier.

Approved by the CMC, the Fujian was given the hull number 18.

It is China's first domestically-made carrier that uses catapults. With a full-load displacement of more than *80,000 tonnes*, the carrier is equipped with *electromagnetic catapults and arresting devices*.

The new carrier will conduct mooring tests and sea trials as scheduled.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 854490


Great shot!

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## Dungeness

*June 17* of 55 years ago:

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 854456
> View attachment 854457





Deino said:


> Great shot!
> 
> View attachment 854492

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## JSCh

China launches EM catapults-equipped 3rd aircraft carrier in Shanghai​By Global Times
Published: Jun 17, 2022 12:01 PM Updated: Jun 17, 2022 12:30 PM





Photo: Xinhua

In a short but festive ceremony, China on Friday launched the country's third aircraft carrier in the Jiangnan Shipyard, a Shanghai-based subsidiary of China State Shipbuilding Corporation Limited.

Having a displacement of more than 80,000 tons, the carrier, named Fujian, is equipped with electromagnetic catapults and arresting devices.

A launch and naming ceremony was held at about 11 am, when the naming certificate of the vessel was given to the top officer to receive delivery of the aircraft carrier. 

Officials then cut the ribbon marking the launch of the third aircraft carrier, after which the vessel left the dock, concluding the ceremony.

According to the approval of the Central Military Commission, China's third aircraft carrier is named the _Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy Ship Fujian_ and given the hull number 18.





Graphic: GT

The _Fujian_ is China's first fully domestically developed and constructed aircraft carrier with catapults. It has a flat, straight flight deck equipped with electromagnetic catapults and arresting devices, and has a full displacement of more than 80,000 tons.

Fujian is also the name of the eastern coastal province facing the island of Taiwan.

After the launch, the carrier will start mooring trials and sea trials.

Xu Qiliang, a member of the Political Bureau of the Communist Party of China Central Committee and vice-chairman of the Central Military Commission, attended the ceremony.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @高山CG from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## Dungeness

Deino said:


> Congratulation: In Shanghai, the Type 003 aircraft carrier was launched! 🥳🥂🍾
> 
> More hopefully soon.
> 
> (Image via @航空物语 from Weibo)
> 
> View attachment 854441



The official Xinhua news only mentioned the subsequent "mooring trials" and "sea trials" following the launch, but omitted the usual "fitting out" phase. What's your take on this? Has the fitting-out already completed?

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## LKJ86

Via @开心包子铺分铺 from Weibo





Via @浩汉防务-菜兵 from Weibo

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## FuturePAF

Now that Type 003 Has been launched, let the speculation on Type 004 begin  (per my post 2 pages back, construction of Type 004 will probably fully start in 4 years and be completed by 2030)

My guess is another Type 003 to be built starting in 2 years, based on what the analyst in the following video states is his assessment of the PLAN’s mission issuing the carriers. A more optimized Type 003 (similar to how type 002 was an optimized type 001) may even be re-designated the Type 004.






P.S. It is possible China may not build an equal number of carriers to the US but limit itself to 6-7 Type 003 class full carriers and build a similar number of Type 076 Medium carriers to limit the costs and impact the loss of a carrier would cause to PLAN operations.

Type 076 could also presumably be built in larger numbers and by multiple shipyards then the sole shipyard that has built the Type 003. It could be a strategy similar to the US with the Escort carriers of WW2; built for warfighting and to guard convoys. This would be a similar mission to supporting PLAN marines in a landing on Taiwan.






Escort carrier - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





If China builds or upgrades a second yard to make carriers, they could presumably be able to build these carriers in 4-6 years a piece with overlapping schedules, reaching the numbers above in only 15-20 years.

Also with enough carriers to cover the first island chain, China could afford to send its two older carriers (equipped with a mix of J-15 and J-35) to the Indian Ocean to protect their SLOCs; home ported out of Djibouti (which could be a boost for BRI, CPEC, and Pakistan as well as other Chinese friendly nations)

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520067265823006726

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## LKJ86

Via @大包CG from Weibo

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## nang2

LKJ86 said:


> China launches third aircraft carrier
> 
> 
> China launches third aircraft carrier-
> 
> 
> 
> english.news.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China launches third aircraft carrier​Source: Xinhua
> Editor: huaxia
> 2022-06-17 13:25:45
> 
> SHANGHAI, June 17 (Xinhua) -- China launched its third aircraft carrier, the Fujian, in Shanghai on Friday. The carrier, named after Fujian Province, was completely designed and built by China.
> 
> The new carrier was put into the water at a launch ceremony that started at about 11 a.m.
> 
> Xu Qiliang, a member of the Political Bureau of the Communist Party of China Central Committee and vice chairman of the Central Military Commission (CMC), presented a naming certificate to the navy unit receiving the carrier.
> 
> Approved by the CMC, the Fujian was given the hull number 18.
> 
> It is China's first domestically-made carrier that uses catapults. With a full-load displacement of more than *80,000 tonnes*, the carrier is equipped with *electromagnetic catapults and arresting devices*.
> 
> The new carrier will conduct mooring tests and sea trials as scheduled.


What a beauty! And the name "Fujian" would give Taiwanese some room for imagination. Haha

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## Abid123

How many aircraft carriers is the PLA Navy planning?


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## johncliu88

Abid123 said:


> How many aircraft carriers is the PLA Navy planning?


According to some sources, there will be 6 in total.


----------



## GiantPanda

johncliu88 said:


> According to some sources, there will be 6 in total.



Other sources say up to 10. The size of the training establishments and recruiting classes has grown huge in the last couple of years. They are creating a pipeline for a pretty large carrier corps.


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## johncliu88

Here is the point of view from US media: Navalnews. 
China Launches First Aircraft Carrier Which Rivals U.S. Navy’s


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## sheik

johncliu88 said:


> Here is the point of view from US media: Navalnews.
> China Launches First Aircraft Carrier Which Rivals U.S. Navy’s


Our dear Deino was mentioned and his words were quoted in the report.

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## Wergeland

sheik said:


> Our dear Deino was mentioned and his words were quoted in the report.



Well Deino as far as a western guy, actually has pretty good overview of Chinese Millitary. @Deino Guten abend, your enthusiasm and updates are appreciated. Just wanna tell you that.







Those grey «window» like features are ventilation openings or some kind of radar panels? Hard to tell from a far.

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## sheik



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## FairAndUnbiased

FuturePAF said:


> Now that Type 003 Has been launched, let the speculation on Type 004 begin  (per my post 2 pages back, construction of Type 004 will probably fully start in 4 years and be completed by 2030)
> 
> My guess is another Type 003 to be built starting in 2 years, based on what the analyst in the following video states is his assessment of the PLAN’s mission issuing the carriers. A more optimized Type 003 (similar to how type 002 was an optimized type 001) may even be re-designated the Type 004.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. It is possible China may not build an equal number of carriers to the US but limit itself to 6-7 Type 003 class full carriers and build a similar number of Type 076 Medium carriers to limit the costs and impact the loss of a carrier would cause to PLAN operations.
> 
> Type 076 could also presumably be built in larger numbers and by multiple shipyards then the sole shipyard that has built the Type 003. It could be a strategy similar to the US with the Escort carriers of WW2; built for warfighting and to guard convoys. This would be a similar mission to supporting PLAN marines in a landing on Taiwan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Escort carrier - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If China builds or upgrades a second yard to make carriers, they could presumably be able to build these carriers in 4-6 years a piece with overlapping schedules, reaching the numbers above in only 15-20 years.
> 
> Also with enough carriers to cover the first island chain, China could afford to send its two older carriers (equipped with a mix of J-15 and J-35) to the Indian Ocean to protect their SLOCs; home ported out of Djibouti (which could be a boost for BRI, CPEC, and Pakistan as well as other Chinese friendly nations)


In China steel naval construction and naval engines is cheap. The limitation on carrier size and number will be the air wing, as aircraft manufacturing in China is more limited, doesn't have enough civilian market and is split between the PLAAF and PLAN.

I can envision a few more 003s and 004s leveraging best practices from civilian shipping and other ships that doesn't require any technological leaps: about 100k tons, fossil or fossil + small reactor steam power, IEP transmission, laser CIWS. Armament focused on jet fighters (J-15s for strike, J-35s for air superiority) with and AWACs for long range radar warning.

Then you can have maybe 1.5x - 2x that number in 076s, focused on drone warfare: well deck for launching UUVs and/or USVs with active sonar, ASM and torpedos, single EMALS catapult for propeller drones for maritime patrol and light strike, and a bunch of ASW helicopters.

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## johncliu88

How many tug boats were needed to pull out this giant monster? I see about 8 of them from pictures.


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## LKJ86

Via 李唐

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## kuge

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 854796
> View attachment 854797
> View attachment 854798
> View attachment 854799
> View attachment 854800
> 
> Via 李唐


how long time before those boxes are removed?


----------



## kungfugymnast

sheik said:


> When you talked about Type 00x, you mean Number x right? I don't think China will build only one for each Type of the carriers.


For aircraft carriers, every number might represent 1 ship because it's a flagship and grand as in highest status. Also the number 4 is not nice in Chinese pronunciation so out of superstitious of bad luck, there might be no Type 004 being skipped to 005. Number 4, 14 are bad luck.

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## kungfugymnast

kuge said:


> how long time before those boxes are removed?


I can only think of 3 reasons why are they covering the rail launch with boxes, either: 
1) they don't work sort of incomplete under development but needed to launch the carrier early
2) the rails design are advanced top secret technology that they don't want others to see and know how they work.
3) they wanted to keep them mysterious so that the enemies from west would get more curious and wonder whether they'll work and if they do work, the Type 003 will impose serious threat to US supremacy. 

My bet would be #2 & #3. Can't wait to see an aircraft taking off on the EMALS. J-15B could be the first aircraft to do so. The ship displacement could also be lighter 8xk tonnes likely


----------



## lcloo

kungfugymnast said:


> I can only think of 3 reasons why are they covering the rail launch with boxes, either:
> 1) they don't work sort of incomplete under development but needed to launch the carrier early
> 2) the rails design are advanced top secret technology that they don't want others to see and know how they work.
> 3) they wanted to keep them mysterious so that the enemies from west would get more curious and wonder whether they'll work and if they do work, the Type 003 will impose serious threat to US supremacy.
> 
> My bet would be #2 & #3. Can't wait to see an aircraft taking off on the EMALS. J-15B could be the first aircraft to do so. The ship displacement could also be lighter 8xk tonnes likely


Weather shelters. US Navy.

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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> I can only think of 3 reasons why are they covering the rail launch with boxes, either:
> 1) they don't work sort of incomplete under development but needed to launch the carrier early
> 2) the rails design are advanced top secret technology that they don't want others to see and know how they work.
> 3) they wanted to keep them mysterious so that the enemies from west would get more curious and wonder whether they'll work and if they do work, the Type 003 will impose serious threat to US supremacy.
> 
> My bet would be #2 & #3. Can't wait to see an aircraft taking off on the EMALS. J-15B could be the first aircraft to do so. The ship displacement could also be lighter 8xk tonnes likely




I know a fourth option: it is a common practice done all over the world and you are again spreading lies of fabricated plain stupid theories just in order to look very smart!

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## FuturePAF

FairAndUnbiased said:


> In China steel naval construction and naval engines is cheap. The limitation on carrier size and number will be the air wing, as aircraft manufacturing in China is more limited, doesn't have enough civilian market and is split between the PLAAF and PLAN.
> 
> I can envision a few more 003s and 004s leveraging best practices from civilian shipping and other ships that doesn't require any technological leaps: about 100k tons, fossil or fossil + small reactor steam power, IEP transmission, laser CIWS. Armament focused on jet fighters (J-15s for strike, J-35s for air superiority) with and AWACs for long range radar warning.
> 
> Then you can have maybe 1.5x - 2x that number in 076s, focused on drone warfare: well deck for launching UUVs and/or USVs with active sonar, ASM and torpedos, single EMALS catapult for propeller drones for maritime patrol and light strike, and a bunch of ASW helicopters.



Indeed, Limited manned air wing (for multiple reasons) is probably why we will probably see 1.5-2x Type 076 as escort medium PLAN marines carriers/LHD.

What do you think the building schedule would be and how many ships of each category do you think the PLAN will finally build? If above is true that would be 6-7 of at least Type 003 class and 9-14 Type 076 carriers. Considering it took 4-6 years to build the type 003 and if they build a second yard to have two being built at any given time that would be 18 years to get to the 6-7 level. For the type 076 3-4 yards could be going at a similar pace and put out the full 9-14 in the same time frame.

Which would mean the entire force would be ready by 2040, and with any possible delays (such as time switching to nuclear propulsion or an economic downturn) factored in; almost certainly by 2049, the PLAN will achieve its goal in becoming a world class combat force.

With that many ships will the PLAN be patrolling the world’s oceans? Protecting their SLOCs and BRI projects? Recent change in PLA doctrine to protect infrastructure projects in MOOTW (military operations other than war) could mean the PLAN marines form “Security Force Assistance Brigades” similar to the US. 800 man force to support partner nations.

Also, if Pakistan gets it economy in a stable and growing position, what do you think the odds are of the PN purchasing the Type 002 Carrier from China (with a complement of J-35 Fighters) in a decade or two? Perhaps even those Type 076 medium carriers maybe a better option for the PN.


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## xuxu1457

kungfugymnast said:


> I can only think of 3 reasons why are they covering the rail launch with boxes, either:
> 1) they don't work sort of incomplete under development but needed to launch the carrier early
> 2) the rails design are advanced top secret technology that they don't want others to see and know how they work.
> 3) they wanted to keep them mysterious so that the enemies from west would get more curious and wonder whether they'll work and if they do work, the Type 003 will impose serious threat to US supremacy.
> 
> My bet would be #2 & #3. Can't wait to see an aircraft taking off on the EMALS. J-15B could be the first aircraft to do so. The ship displacement could also be lighter 8xk tonnes likely


The same ， Ford-class aircraft carriers when launched.

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## LKJ86

Via @开心包子铺分铺 from Weibo

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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> POP3 hints that China's nuclear supercarrier will be ready soon.
> 
> 
> View attachment 843506


oh, oh, Wasn't you who said 003 is nuclear?

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## Niko Zhang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The thermal power of the Linglong 1 reactor is around 385 MW, so the Type 003 is likely to be powered by 4 X 385 MW Linglong 1 reactors compared to the 2 X 715 MW A1B reactors of the Ford class.
> 
> The HEU of the A1B reactor is around 93%, whereas the Linglong 1 reactor is no more than 50%.
> 
> China wants those reactors with lower enrichment which will be safer and easier for the RCOH.
> 
> The Type 003 is very likely to be a CONAG supercarrier.





ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The thermal power of the Linglong 1 reactor is around 385 MW, so the Type 003 is likely to be powered by 4 X 385 MW Linglong 1 reactors compared to the 2 X 715 MW A1B reactors of the Ford class.
> 
> The HEU of the A1B reactor is around 93%, whereas the Linglong 1 reactor is no more than 50%.
> 
> China wants those reactors with lower enrichment which will be safer and easier for the RCOH.
> 
> The Type 003 is very likely to be a CONAG supercarrier.


Why don't you simply admit you were wrong?



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Around 95000 tonnes, similar to CVN-65 and CVN-68.


Or maybe CCTV is wrong? Haha

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## FairAndUnbiased

FuturePAF said:


> Indeed, Limited manned air wing (for multiple reasons) is probably why we will probably see 1.5-2x Type 076 as escort medium PLAN marines carriers/LHD.
> 
> What do you think the building schedule would be and how many ships of each category do you think the PLAN will finally build? If above is true that would be 6-7 of at least Type 003 class and 9-14 Type 076 carriers. Considering it took 4-6 years to build the type 003 and if they build a second yard to have two being built at any given time that would be 18 years to get to the 6-7 level. For the type 076 3-4 yards could be going at a similar pace and put out the full 9-14 in the same time frame.
> 
> Which would mean the entire force would be ready by 2040, and with any possible delays (such as time switching to nuclear propulsion or an economic downturn) factored in; almost certainly by 2049, the PLAN will achieve its goal in becoming a world class combat force.
> 
> With that many ships will the PLAN be patrolling the world’s oceans? Protecting their SLOCs and BRI projects? Recent change in PLA doctrine to protect infrastructure projects in MOOTW (military operations other than war) could mean the PLAN marines form “Security Force Assistance Brigades” similar to the US. 800 man force to support partner nations.
> 
> Also, if Pakistan gets it economy in a stable and growing position, what do you think the odds are of the PN purchasing the Type 002 Carrier from China (with a complement of J-35 Fighters) in a decade or two? Perhaps even those Type 076 medium carriers maybe a better option for the PN.


I'd say that it'll take maybe 2-3 years to test out all the technology on the 003. optimistically PLAN already believes that this hull format is more or less OK while only testing specific subsystems. remember that it took 4-6 years because of (allegedly) steam catapults being changed to EM in the middle, and EM catapults being relatively new tech, which required a redesign of the entire internal plumbing system and a new electrical system.

so we're looking at steel cutting, beginning of construction soon, maybe 2 years out, then construction of 004 (which I believe will be conventional) within 2 years.

076 LHD is easier to construct. Hudong Zhonghua is the producer LHDs. Based on 075 track record, they launched Hainan in September 2019, commissioned April 2021 (17 months). They launched Guangxi in April 2020 (6 months after Hainan), commissioned December 2021 (18 months).

I don't think any CVs will be sold.

They're still brand new and have 30-40 years of life. Even as helicopter carriers they're still better than 075s and 076s, and they can still launch air defense planes.

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## LKJ86



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## CSAW

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538424095464906752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538431041068728321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538344505971290112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537826481732308995

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## tonyget

Can you tell EM catapults from steam catapults just by appearance？

Is there any official confirmation that CV-18 uses EM catapults ？


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## Han Patriot

lcloo said:


> Weather shelters. US Navy.
> View attachment 854832


That's one ugly looking carrier, I was about to critisize the 003 until I saw this.

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## FuturePAF

CSAW said:


> View attachment 855084
> ://twitter.com/zspcl/status/1538424095464906752
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538344505971290112
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537826481732308995
> View attachment 855083


What’s the reference for total displacement of 92,000 tons? Many commentators state 80,000+ or 85,000 tons, but none as high as 92,000 tons.

Btw, the future French “PA-NG” aircraft carrier is expected to be approx. 70,000-75,000 tons (which I suspect they are trying to also sell to India for licensed production in their Cochin shipyard) is expected to be nuclear powered. Perhaps the Type 003 will just get modified to fit the nuclear reactors once the current type 003 design is perfected.

So it is possible the Type 003 is the size China will stick to for all future carriers, with only modifications to fit a third elevator and fourth catapult.




FairAndUnbiased said:


> I'd say that it'll take maybe 2-3 years to test out all the technology on the 003. optimistically PLAN already believes that this hull format is more or less OK while only testing specific subsystems. remember that it took 4-6 years because of (allegedly) steam catapults being changed to EM in the middle, and EM catapults being relatively new tech, which required a redesign of the entire internal plumbing system and a new electrical system.
> 
> so we're looking at steel cutting, beginning of construction soon, maybe 2 years out, then construction of 004 (which I believe will be conventional) within 2 years.
> 
> 076 LHD is easier to construct. Hudong Zhonghua is the producer LHDs. Based on 075 track record, they launched Hainan in September 2019, commissioned April 2021 (17 months). They launched Guangxi in April 2020 (6 months after Hainan), commissioned December 2021 (18 months).
> 
> I don't think any CVs will be sold.
> 
> They're still brand new and have 30-40 years of life. Even as helicopter carriers they're still better than 075s and 076s, and they can still launch air defense planes.


With the advent of UCAVs, perhaps the Type 076 maybe more suitable for the PN if it doctrine changes to require further out blue water operations with air support.


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## Polestar 2

tonyget said:


> Can you tell EM catapults from steam catapults just by appearance？
> 
> Is there any official confirmation that CV-18 uses EM catapults ？







1:00m to 1:10m Official confirmation unless you cant understand Chinese.

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## CSAW

China’s newest hi-tech aircraft carrier, explained


The Type 003 carrier is China’s most-advanced warship ever built and its launch has cemented Beijing's position as a top contender among global shipbuilding industries.




www.trtworld.com

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## Corax

This thing will have 3 EMALS?! Amazing.


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## MajesticPug

I saw a video and pic of the 003 carrier's CIWS radar. It's rectangular in shape and looks different than the previous 1130 CIWS guns' round dish radars found in 055. The narrator claimed it's a new 相控雷達 *AESA*(?) radar that allows the 1130 gun sees and engages incoming missiles farther. She didn't mention how much further the CIWS can engage. It's excellent China installs a small AESA radar onto a small but critical anti-air systems.

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## casual

MajesticPug said:


> I saw a video and pic of the 003 carrier's CIWS radar. It's rectangular in shape and looks different than the previous 1130 CIWS guns' round dish radars found in 055. The narrator claimed it's a new 相控雷達 *AESA*(?) radar that allows the 1130 gun sees and engages incoming missiles farther. She didn't mention how much further the CIWS can engage. It's excellent China installs a small AESA radar onto a small but critical anti-air systems.


it is mostly to counter enemy EW and maybe to engage in EW. The range is limited by the guns

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## ZeEa5KPul

Abid123 said:


> How many aircraft carriers is the PLA Navy planning?


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## Super Falcon

Chinese naval aircraft battle group in full force they look very deadly with these new 100000 tonnage type 003 along with type 055,052D destroyers and type 054 frigate and yuan subs will definitely chalkange USA not only in south china sea but in Pacific sea

With KJ 600 they will be even more deadly against super hornets attack on Chinese battle group

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## Deino

Super Falcon said:


> Chinese naval aircraft battle group in full force they look very deadly with these new 100000 tonnage type 003 along with type 055,052D destroyers and type 054 frigate and yuan subs will definitely chalkange USA not only in south china sea but in Pacific sea
> 
> With KJ 600 they will be even more deadly against super hornets attack on Chinese battle group




Oh well, grow up, get mature, calm down and hold your horses ... for now it remain on the pier for fitting out for almost 1 if not 2 years , then trials will begin, which again will take more than one year and even if then handed over to the PLAN it will not be a "big threat to USA" but a single then unproven carrier which will pave the way for more, but I'm pretty sure the PLAN knows exactly the value of this asset and this is not to "spread for against the USN"!

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## vi-va

Deino said:


> Oh well, grow up, get mature, calm down and hold your horses ... for now it remain on the pier for fitting out for almost 1 if not 2 years , then trials will begin, which again will take more than one year and even if then handed over to the PLAN it will not be a "big threat to USA" but a single then unproven carrier which will pave the way for more, but I'm pretty sure the PLAN knows exactly the value of this asset and this is not to "spread for against the USN"!


003 is not designed to challenge the U.S. navy anyway. It's just a power projection tool. The flying wing bomber is. 
While U.S. won't use Ford to counter 003, they would either use LRASM of B1B or B21.

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## kungfugymnast

Deino said:


> I know a fourth option: it is a common practice done all over the world and you are again spreading lies of fabricated plain stupid theories just in order to look very smart!


Stick to facts talk, this forum is not for you to spew personal hatred loser. If you cannot stay neutral and stick to ethics, please resign from moderator post



lcloo said:


> Weather shelters. US Navy.
> View attachment 854832


Thanks for reminding me on Ford class covering its EMALS.



xuxu1457 said:


> The same ， Ford-class aircraft carriers when launched.
> View attachment 854883
> View attachment 854882


 Thanks for reminding on USS Ford Class when launched. Guess it's for the same reason


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## kungfugymnast

CSAW said:


> View attachment 855124
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538424095464906752
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538431041068728321
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538344505971290112
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537826481732308995
> View attachment 855083



The EM launch power system based on AC vs DC reminds me of electric war that took place in US back then between 2 electrical inventors except this time it's between US vs China


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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> Stick to facts talk, this forum is not for you to spew personal hatred loser. If you cannot stay neutral and stick to ethics, please resign from moderator post




Oh well … next try to learn!

As I told you … do not lie, do not post fakes and in case you were proven wrong, don‘t twist words and insult, just admit you were wrong. It‘s all not that difficult to be honest and civilised.  

Next try after your pause …


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## MajesticPug

casual said:


> it is mostly to counter enemy EW and maybe to engage in EW. The range is limited by the guns



I think besides improving engagement range, the new radar allows the gun to engage low RCS or stealthy missiles. This is great thinking, ahead of the curve.


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## casual

MajesticPug said:


> I think besides improving engagement range, the new radar allows the gun to engage low RCS or stealthy missiles. This is great thinking, ahead of the curve.


engagement range won't change. 30mm rounds would start falling off at around 10km. the APFSDS rounds shot by these CIWS cannons would suffer even more due to lowered projectile mass.

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## MajesticPug

casual said:


> engagement range won't change. 30mm rounds would start falling off at around 10km. the APFSDS rounds shot by these CIWS cannons would suffer even more due to lowered projectile mass.



10km range should be sufficient if it could detect stealthy missiles and destroy them in the 5-10km range.


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## casual

MajesticPug said:


> 10km range should be sufficient if it could detect stealthy missiles and destroy them in the 5-10km range.


10km range is against boats. Against fast moving missiles you're probably looking of effective range of under 3km


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## Polestar 2

China always understated the new aircraft carrier tonnage. Despite state claim Fujian aircraft carrier is 80,000tons. It never claim its full or empty tonnage. When 075LHD leave drydock, state news paper claim its 20,000tons but end up we know its 50,000tons when its fully commission as state newspaper re adjust its tonnage.

Those slayer who take state news claiming as 80,000tons as some bible. are going to be disappointed. Very likely Fujian aircraft carrier is near 100,000 tons if fully loaded which is very close to Gerald Ford aircraft carrier.

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## Polestar 2



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## mack8

Can i just say that Fujian is an amazing and historic chinese achievement, no other country actually matched the US carriers since WW2. What they need now is numbers, they need to churn these out like hotcakes (as far as supercarriers are concerned of course) in steadily improved models, maybe CVNs next!

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## onebyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544129886947684354

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## CSAW

*CHINESE HAVE TAKEN THE BIG LEAP IN NAVAL POWER PROJECTION - YET THE JOURNEY HAS JUST BEGUN WITH CHALLENGES AHEAD*

_China’s launch of a new aircraft carrier, its third and the second built entirely at home, speaks to Beijing’s ambitions to become a military power of global standing and reach._








And it suggests that China is prepared to compete with the United States on what has long been Washington’s strongest territory. U.S. military dominance, particularly in Asia, is built on maritime power, which in turn is built around its carrier fleet. Now China is offering a direct challenge: Anything you can do, we can do bigger and better.

_*Except, not quite.*_






It’s true that the new Type 003 carrier, now formally named _Fujian_, is a big improvement on China’s first two carriers.






Both of those were smaller, which means they carry fewer aircraft. And they featured what’s known as a “ski jump,” a ramp at the bow of the ship that helps jets take off from the carrier’s short runway.






The ski jump imposes big constraints on the size, weight, and payload of the aircraft being launched,

which is why the United States has always preferred steam-driven catapults to hurl aircraft off the ship at high speed.

The Type 003 will use catapults, too, and they will be a more advanced electromagnetic design rather than steam-powered. This catches China up to the very latest U.S. technology, so far seen only on the new USS_ Gerald Ford_.














USS Gerald R. Ford: The most advanced carrier of the US cost around $13.3 billion to build


The USS Gerald R. Ford is one of the most expensive and advanced warships ever built. Here are some things you need to know about her.




interestingengineering.com










But unlike the _Ford_ and every other serving American carrier, _Fujian_ is not nuclear-powered, which will make it more dependent on support ships to achieve long range and endurance. And then there is the issue of scale. This is China’s first supercarrier, now launched but certainly not finished and still several years from entering service.

The United States has 11 "Super-Carriers" , each one more powerful than China’s first effort. In addition China will have to match the Air Wing of US Carriers namely Lightning II JSF VLO 5.0th Gen F-35s , Super Rhino's and AEW&C Naval Fleet.















_*That role would be entrusted to Stealth J-35 Naval Carrier Jet , J-15 B / T versions, UAVs and KJ-600 AEW&C.Plus the Combat training exposure with support structure of forming a Battle Carrier Strike Group with LHDs and Frigates such as Type 055 & 52D is in process.
---------------------------------------*_

For the United States, aircraft carriers have been useful in the post-Cold War era against countries that were largely defenseless when it comes to naval warfare—Iraq, Libya, and Yugoslavia, for instance. In fact, the U.S. Navy has tacitly acknowledged this point by gradually decreasing the range of the combat aircraft it fields aboard its carriers. Why bother with long range if you can safely sail the carrier itself close to enemy shores?

China has demonstrated by effectively taking control of the South China Sea, building artificial islands there and equipping them with military facilities. It happened without much resistance from the United States, which quite understandably calculated that its interests were not so threatened by China’s moves that it would be willing to risk a major war. That same nagging question—is America’s military leadership and alliance network in Asia really important enough to risk a confrontation with the biggest rival the United States has ever faced?—is slowly eroding the credibility of the U.S.-centered security architecture of the region.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544514279608651776








What Does China’s New Aircraft Carrier Say About Its Technology and Strategy


Neither Liaoning nor Shandong have indeed crossed the Malacca Strait and sailed into the Indian Ocean yet. However, with its increasing carrier fleet and possible basing agreements to support these carriers, it could be argued that China’s permanent carrier presence in the Indian Ocean in the...




www.news18.com

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## Deino

According to this recent image - allegedly taken on 5/6. July at the fitting-out pier of the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai - work on the aircraft carrier's AESA arrays have begun ... at least one cover has been removed.

(Image via YYTOU)

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## onebyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548499634649444352


Deino said:


> According to this recent image - allegedly taken on 5/6. July at the fitting-out pier of the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai - work on the aircraft carrier's AESA arrays have begun ... at least one cover has been removed.
> 
> (Image via YYTOU)
> 
> View attachment 859520

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## LKJ86

Via @利刃斩海飞剪艏 from Weibo

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## obj 705A

Damn I absolutely missed the launch of this ship since I haven't logged in in quite a while. Finally it's launched. I would have bought a cake to celebrate it but oh well I already bought one some days ago so I'll count that as the celebration 🥳.

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## Polestar 2

obj 705A said:


> Damn I absolutely missed the launch of this ship since I haven't logged in in quite a while. Finally it's launched. I would have bought a cake to celebrate it but oh well I already bought one some days ago so I'll count that as the celebration 🥳.


Still got time to celebrate another rounds when it goes for sea trial and make it first electric catapult of aircraft off the deck.

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## johncliu88

Looks like the tents were removed.

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## Deino

johncliu88 said:


> Looks like the tents were removed.




This is based on rumors or an image?


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## johncliu88

Deino said:


> This is based on rumors or an image?


Sorry, when I blew up the image above, the tents are still there. My bet.


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## Bengal71

Polestar 2 said:


>



What are those warehouse like buildings on the deck for?


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## lcloo

Bengal71 said:


> What are those warehouse like buildings on the deck for?


Weather shelter with temperature control (i.e. air conditioned), to ensure extremely tight tolerance between metal parts are adhered to during fitting of catapults.

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## Deino

Latest image of the Fujian !

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## Deino



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## Han93

Hmm...

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Han93 said:


> Hmm...
> 
> View attachment 878099



I think at least 2 003 will be built. It's a pretty good ship.


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## lcloo

Han93 said:


> Hmm...
> 
> View attachment 878099


If my memory holds, I think this new drydock belongs to another shipyard, namely Hudong Zhonghua 沪东中华. And most likely they will built type 076 at this site.

Aicraft carrier 003 is built by Jiangnan Changxing shipyard 江南长兴. I expect them to continue using dry dock #3 for building future aircraft carriers.

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## JSCh

China’s third aircraft carrier, the Fujian, is conducting a mooring trial as planned. The carrier completely designed and built by the country was launched in June.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573557845261328386


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## LKJ86

Via @开心包仔铺 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

China's 3rd Aircraft Carrier to Undergo Mooring Test, Sea Trial​

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## LKJ86

Via 舰船知识

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## CSAW

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575815925932384259


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## Deino

CSAW said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575815925932384259




I think we have been fooled again - it was the post I had posted and deleted again - ...

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## Deino

Latest update..

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## johncliu88

Deino said:


> Latest update..
> View attachment 886058


Yes! This is the real one. The tents are still there.

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/tp/2022-10/10/content_10190866.htm

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## Deino

Well ... a pleasant surprise! I expected thsi only for Qi/II 2024!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1609899241836793857

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## Polestar 2



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## Deino

Polestar 2 said:


> View attachment 910105




Looks like a PS-job ... this however is said to be recent!

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## Brainsucker

Deino said:


> Looks like a PS-job ... this however is said to be recent!


The EMAL catapult still not finished?


----------

