# Anza Mark III



## EagleEyes

*Anza Mark III* 
Wednesday, 31 May 2006 

Pakistan is building, under license, a modified version of Chinese Qiang Wei-2 man-portable surface-to-air missile (SAM) system. The Pakistan version, known as Anza Mark III, development of the system is understood to have been faciliated by the transfer of Chinese technology, including thermal-imaging and infra-red night-vision system technology according to Janes.

The system is modified to suit the needs of Pakistani Forces. One such major modification is the firing unit, or "gripstock", which seems to be much modern in Anza Mark III and of the type associated with the Russian Igla missile, as opposed to the Chinese firing unit, which is of the type normally associated with the Russian Strela man-portable SAM. The Igla system is known to contain circuitry that enhances the weapon's engagement capabilities. It is also highly likely that the Pakistani Anza Mk III, although modelled on the Chinese QW-2, has been locally modified to allow it to be used with Russian-made missiles should they become available. The Anza Mk III is, therefore, likely to offer an enhanced detection, launch and flight capability compared with the QW-2, with its firing unit possibly interchangeable with the Russian Igla and Igla-1 SAM systems.

The missile is very similar in capability to the American Stinger. The Anza Mark III has a range of about five kilometers, and sensors that can defeat many anti-missile systems. China is believed to have used technology taken from the Stinger for its Qiang Wei line of missiles. Anza Mark III has the missile based on the rocket motor of the Anza Mark II, but its launcher and the missile bare strong resemblance to the Russian 9K310 Igla-1 (NATO codename: SA-16 Gimlet). The basic difference between them is that the first and second Sam Missiles were portable and could be fired from shoulder. While the new version Anza-III is fired by a mobile or fixed launcher.

The Anza-III is basically an anti-aircraft missile and with further research it could be modified as an anti-missile weapon. The Anza-III is lifted in the air by a booster with solid fuel while the heat guidance system, armed with infrared equipment, leads it to the target. With a successful test of Anza-III missile system, Pakistan would be able to finish the Indian dominance of Indian Akash missile. All the missiles of Anza series have been successfully developed by Kahuta Research Laboratories of Pakistan.

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## melb4aust

How does the system works, doest the seeker has been modified to follow heat signals or through radar? 
though seens interesting, but still needs a lot of improvement. ANZA-II was quite successful, the one which shot down the indian plane during Kargil war.


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## EagleEyes

Actually Anza Mark I shot down the Indian plane. 

Although the short range MANPADS we have are quite successful we are still lacking in terms of original long range SAM systems. A strong SAM system can really give us an edge while maintaining minimum detterence. 

I dont know if the FT-2000 system have been bought or not, but Pakistan had shown interest in it. Imagine a strong SAM system and multiple missile batteries guarding Pakistani defences. It will become really hard for the Indian planes to fight in the Pakistani territory when we will have not bad advanced planes datalinked with Erieye and other planes. It wont be a piece of cake for IAF then.


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## Kaiser

Webmaster I would like to inform you that the information on the anza "mark III" is very wrong.

The anza mk3 is made fully in pakistan and is not a liscense production. The anza mk3 has the range of 15km (not 5) and can be modified to be a mobile short range SAM carried on a apc

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## EagleEyes

Mark III is the correct designated name according to Janes, MK is only a derivative. According to Janes, it assumes that the range is up to 5 KM and not 15 KM as exaggerated by some of the Pakistani news sources. As being modified to be a mobile SAM system carried on a APC is correct.


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## Kaiser

WebMaster said:


> Mark III is the correct designated name according to Janes, MK is only a derivative. According to Janes, it assumes that the range is up to 5 KM and not 15 KM as exaggerated by some of the Pakistani news sources. As being modified to be a mobile SAM system carried on a APC is correct.


 
Well it has been known to be various errors in Janes I would stay with the 15km claim which has been confirmed by more reliable sites and members on other forums (Ex-pakistani army)


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## MOO

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: 
*QW-2 SHOULDER-LAUNCHED AIR-DEFENCE MISSILE (Pakistan Anza MK III )*


The QianWei-2 (QW-2) is China&#8217;s third indigenous shoulder-launched air-defence missile. First revealed in 1998, the missile is based on the rocket motor of the QW-1, but its launcher and the missile bare strong resemblance to the Russian 9K310 Igla-1 (NATO codename: SA-16 Gimlet). The successful development of the QW-2 indicated that China is catching up with Russia in the field of man-portable air-defence system (MANPADS) design, though it still falls behind the U.S. and Europe.

The QW-2 entered service with the PLA in the late 1990s in the form of the Type 95 self-propelled anti-aircraft artillery/surface-to-air missile (SPAAA/SAM) system. There is no man-portable version of the missile in service with the PLA.

*SPECIFICATIONS*

System length: 1.590m
System weight: 18kg
Missile length: 1.423m
Missile diameter: 0.072m
Missile weight: 11.32kg
Propulsion: Single-stage solid rocket
Operating altitude: 0.01 ~ 3.5km
Operating range: 0.5~6km
Maximum speed: 600m/s
Guidance: Infrared
Warhead: 0.57kg


The QW-2 is an advanced shoulder-launched air-defence missile system developed from the QW-1 but upgraded with the Russian 9K310 Igla-1 (SA-16 Gimlet) technology.



There is no man-portable version of the QW-2 in PLA service. The missile has been deployed in small numbers in the form of Type 95 self-propelled anti-aircraft artillery/surface-to-air missile (SPAAA/SAM) system.

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/surfacetoairmissile/qw2.asp


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## tahirkhely

WebMaster said:


> Actually Anza Mark I shot down the Indian plane.
> 
> Although the short range MANPADS we have are quite successful we are still lacking in terms of original long range SAM systems. A strong SAM system can really give us an edge while maintaining minimum detterence.
> 
> I dont know if the FT-2000 system have been bought or not, but Pakistan had shown interest in it. Imagine a strong SAM system and multiple missile batteries guarding Pakistani defences. It will become really hard for the Indian planes to fight in the Pakistani territory when we will have not bad advanced planes datalinked with Erieye and other planes. It wont be a piece of cake for IAF then.


yes you are right. Indians areright now passing through a backlash phase. just like whats happening with jews world over.
:army: :flag:


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## MOO

> With a successful test of Anza-III missile system, Pakistan would be able to finish the Indian dominance of Indian Akash missile.



The author sure does look like he's not been entirely informed of the difference between a Manpad and a medium range Sam. 

The Anza-III is a portable tube launch system with short range as of the Akash system its been said to have 30km in range and has simliarities in appearance as of the Russian Buk M1 SAM. 

Anyway, the FT2000 would bring the balance back to Pakistan once again so lets wait and see.


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## MOO

*This is what Pakistan should get, forget the FT2000!!*


KS-1A Air-defense system

Built and design for export for the Malaysian Armed forces bid for next gen SAM system. Not being truly satisfied with the the original model of the KS-1 system with of a range of 30km and the weaker 120km detection radar, the Chinese improved both the range of the radar and missile to meet their export customers requirements. Now with the improved model the KS-1A can now be compared to Russia's Buk M2 SAM system. Malaysia will be the first customer, along with the technology transfer of local production of Chinese Manpads for the purchase of the new SAM.

Improvements:

*300km Phase array detection radar

*50 km surface-to-air missile

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## peshawar

ANY NEWS ON THAT
WHEN WIL THEY ROLL IT OUT 
OR WAS IT JUST ONE OF OUR WET DREAM???


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## EagleEyes

Wet dream? Its already out.. and operational. What specifically do you want to know?

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## Ababeel

When it was out as there was no news or video or reports in print or electronic media as long as I know.
Please give details and info if it is in serial production and links if possible.
Thanks Webby.

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## Awesome

People are getting way too liberal with the term "wet dream".

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## peshawar

any news about it any pic man i have been waiting for it since i was in college i have all ready done my masters now still i havent seen a single pic of it
pakistan realy badly needs to improve its SAM capability


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## IceCold

peshawar said:


> pakistan realy badly needs to improve its SAM capability



Perhaps you missed the news about pakistan aquiring the MBDA Spada.

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## amunhotep

WebMaster said:


> Wet dream? Its already out.. and operational. What specifically do you want to know?



the maximum speed please, & the altitude-ceiling


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## EagleEyes

There are pictures in the gallery.. see it for yourself. I will paste it here once i get some time.

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## Flintlock

Asim Aquil said:


> People are getting way too liberal with the term "wet dream".



That one I totally agree with!


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## Black Stone

Kaiser said:


> Webmaster I would like to inform you that the information on the anza "mark III" is very wrong.
> 
> The anza mk3 is made fully in pakistan and is not a liscense production. The anza mk3 has the range of 15km (not 5) and can be modified to be a mobile short range SAM carried on a apc



The Anza MKIII is basically the Chinese QW-2 and it is under licenced production.

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## Black Stone

MOO said:


> *This is what Pakistan should get, forget the FT2000!!*
> 
> 
> KS-1A Air-defense system
> 
> Built and design for export for the Malaysian Armed forces bid for next gen SAM system. Not being truly satisfied with the the original model of the KS-1 system with of a range of 30km and the weaker 120km detection radar, the Chinese improved both the range of the radar and missile to meet their export customers requirements. Now with the improved model the KS-1A can now be compared to Russia's Buk M2 SAM system. Malaysia will be the first customer, along with the technology transfer of local production of Chinese Manpads for the purchase of the new SAM.
> 
> Improvements:
> 
> *300km Phase array detection radar
> 
> *50 km surface-to-air missile



This does look impressive, but why not go one step better and try to get the HQ-16


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## fatman17

Black Stone said:


> The Anza MKIII is basically the Chinese QW-2 and it is under licenced production.



_not a w** dream anymore...._


JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY: 

Pakistan builds on Chinese SAM system

James C O'Halloran Editor, Jane's Land-Based Air Defence 

Pakistan is now in a position to series-produce a *modified version *of the Chinese Qiang Wei-2 (QW-2) man-portable surface-to-air missile (SAM) system known locally as the Anza Mk III, according to documents recently acquired in Asia. 

Development of the system is understood to have been facilitated by the transfer of Chinese technology, including thermal-imaging and infra-red night-vision system technology. 

*It would appear from photographic evidence that Pakistan has made several modifications to the system, probably to conform to local requirements and operational use with the Pakistani armed forces. *

One such major modification is the firing unit, or 'gripstock', which in the Pakistani version seems more modern and of the type associated with the Russian Igla missile, as opposed to the Chinese firing unit, which is of the type normally associated with the Russian Strela man-portable SAM. The Igla system is known to contain circuitry that enhances the weapon's engagement capabilities. It is also highly likely that the Pakistani Anza Mk III, although modelled on the Chinese QW-2, has been locally modified to allow it to be used with Russian-made missiles should they become available. The Anza Mk III is, therefore, likely to offer an enhanced detection, launch and flight capability compared with the QW-2, with its firing unit possibly interchangeable with the Russian Igla and Igla-1 SAM systems.


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## MOSABJA

Can some one tell me how much ONE ANZA COST?????????

How much pakistan is able to make in the given budget.


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## ahussains

Thats intresting news it is easily compare to the Stinger and this specific version is looking for advance then stinger.


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## z9-ec

I found this image of Anza on some web forum. 

This was built for MK-3 right?


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## echo 1

This picture is very old it is from around 1991 when we got the first Anza mk I


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## masijames

Anza mark 1 and two picture for you guys





http://www.fas.org[IMG]

[url]http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/anza-fpok.jpg[/url] 

/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/anza-gctws1.jpg[/IMG]


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## BelligerentPacifist

These pictures are all Anza 1 and 2, the mark 3 is a mark 2 with an additional booster stage. No longer a manpad. But can get to 7km from what i read. Wasn't a big improvement so not inducted i suppose.


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## EagleEyes

Salam Beli,

I heard its inducted. What are your sources?


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## fatman17

WebMaster said:


> Salam Beli,
> 
> I heard its inducted. What are your sources?



inducted and in production for the PA. it is confirmed by JDW (pls read earlier thread)


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## fatman17

QW-2 (Vanguard 2) Man-Portable Surface-to-Air Missile

Last updated: 30 July 2007

The QianWei-2 (QW-2, or Vanguard 2 in its export name) is the third-generation shoulder-launched, all-aspect IR-homing, 'fire-and-forget' surface-to-air missile developed by Shenyang-based CASIC 119 Factory (Shenyang Hangtian Xinle Ltd). The QW-2 was first revealed during the 1998 Farnborough Air Show. The missile and launcher of the QW-2 bear strong resemblance to those of the Russian 9K310 Igla-1 (NATO codename: SA-16 Gimlet), and the two missile systems are believed to be comparable in performance.

Compared to the QW-1, the minimum operating altitude of the QW-2 has been reduced from 30m to 10m; the operating range has been increased from 5km to 6km; and the missile&#8217;s reaction time has been reduced to below 5 seconds. The QW-2 features a newly developed dual-band passive IR seeker with strong resistance to heat flares dispensed by the target and solar/ground heat, thus improving the missile&#8217;s performance in day/night, all-weather conditions.

*The QW-2 has yet been spotted in operational service with the PLA. The missile has been produced in Pakistan under license as Anza MK-3.*


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## JK!

Nope the QW2 forms the basis of Anza 2.


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## fatman17

JK! said:


> Nope the QW2 forms the basis of Anza 2.



take it up with Chinese Defence Today!


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## JK!

fatman17 said:


> take it up with Chinese Defence Today!



I stand corrected fatman.

I was under the impression from earliar posts in this thread that Anza 3 would be more in the league of SA13 Gopher.

Perhaps that is why people have posted about the aquisition of Bamse 23.


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## fatman17

JK! said:


> I stand corrected fatman.
> 
> I was under the impression from earliar posts in this thread that Anza 3 would be more in the league of SA13 Gopher.
> 
> Perhaps that is why people have posted about the aquisition of Bamse 23.



I am glad - u seem to be a very intelligent person - would u care to smoke a peace pipe!


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## JK!

fatman17 said:


> I am glad - u seem to be a very intelligent person - would u care to smoke a peace pipe!



Yes I would. Its been a weird posting session today.

Turns out that the Anza 2 was based on QW 1 which is being used and produced locally in Iran as well.


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## EagleEyes

> Perhaps that is why people have posted about the aquisition of Bamse 23.



huh? What do you mean?

RBS 23 BAMSE is a different deal.

Anza III seems to have been modified to be carried on Al-Talha based vehicles as well!


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## fatman17

JK! said:


> Yes I would. Its been a weird posting session today.
> 
> Turns out that the Anza 2 was based on QW 1 which is being used and produced locally in Iran as well.




Cheers bro!
Have a nice day.


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## echo 1

Any chance Pakistan is working on developing something like the U.S. Avenger or somthing else along that line.


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## echo 1

any chance Pakistan is working on some kind of air defence system like the US Avenger or something along the same line.


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## nomi007

good news.best of luck


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## mughaljee

Hope for best and happy to see that, this is under licence.


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## navtrek

WebMaster said:


> Actually Anza Mark I shot down the Indian plane.
> 
> Although the short range MANPADS we have are quite successful we are still lacking in terms of original long range SAM systems. A strong SAM system can really give us an edge while maintaining minimum detterence.
> 
> I dont know if the FT-2000 system have been bought or not, but Pakistan had shown interest in it. Imagine a strong SAM system and multiple missile batteries guarding Pakistani defences. It will become really hard for the Indian planes to fight in the Pakistani territory when we will have not bad advanced planes datalinked with Erieye and other planes.* It wont be a piece of cake for IAF then.*



I thought it was not a piece of cake now also or is it ? 

Well dont worry guys India will never attack and have heard a lot abt the PAF they are very capable force.


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## hardtarget

Anza Mk-III - Believed to be based on the Chinese QW-2 MANPADS,[31] modifications made to meet Pakistan Army requirements include a new firing unit similar to the Russian 9K38 Igla MANPADS.[10][32] All-aspect attack capability and improved ECCM capability. The minimum altitude of 10 m gives capability to attack very low flying helicopters and cruise missiles. Also has a vehicle-mounted launcher variant.[11]


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## hardtarget

File:Anza Mk-II.JPG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## monitor

can anyone claryfy that is it possible to intrigate anza-3 missile with 
talha or any other mobile platform ?


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## Imran Khan

monitor said:


> can anyone claryfy that is it possible to intrigate anza-3 missile with
> talha or any other mobile platform ?

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## Nav

What is the neccessery Technology for develping a High alltitud and medium alltitude SAM system.


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## Arsalan

Navkhan said:


> What is the neccessery Technology for develping a High alltitud and medium alltitude SAM system.



radar Technology that can lead the SAM to the target. 

there are three basic techniques that can be adopted in detecting and tracking the target.

Targets for long range hiigh altitude SAMs will usually be acquired by air-search radar, then tracked before/while a SAM is "locked-on" and then fired. Potential targets, if they are military aircraft, will be identified as friend or foe before being engaged.





> *Active homing*
> Active homing uses a radar system on the missile to provide a guidance signal. Typically electronics in the missile keep the radar pointed directly at the target, and the missile then looks at this "angle" of its own centerline to guide itself. Radar resolution is based on the size of the antenna, so in a smaller missile these systems are useful for attacking only large targets, ships or large bombers for instance. Active radar systems remain in widespread use in anti-shipping missiles, and in "fire-and-forget" air-to-air missile systems such as AMRAAM and R-77
> 
> *Semi-active homing*
> Semi-active homing systems combine a radar receiver on the missile with a radar broadcaster located "elsewhere". Since the missile is typically being launched after the target was detected using a powerful radar system, it makes sense to use that same radar system to track the target, thereby avoiding problems with resolution or power. SARH is by far the most common "all weather" guidance solution for anti-aircraft systems, both ground and air launched. SALH is a similar system using a laser as a signal. It has the disadvantage for air-launched systems that the launch aircraft must keep moving towards the target in order to maintain radar and guidance lock. This has the potential to bring it within range of shorter-ranged IR-guided missile systems, an important consideration now that "all aspect" IR missiles are capable of "kills" from head on, something which did not prevail in the early days of guided missiles. For ships and mobile or fixed ground-based systems, this is irrelevant as the speed (and often size) of the launch platform precludes "running away" from the target or opening the range so as to make the enemy attack fail.
> 
> *Passive homing*
> Infrared homing is a passive system in which heat generated by the target is detected and homed on. Typically used in the anti-aircraft role to track the heat of jet engines, it has also been used in the anti-vehicle role with some success. This means of guidance is sometimes also referred to as "heat seeking".
> 
> Contrast seekers use a television camera, typically black and white, to image a field of view in front of the missile, which is presented to the operator. When launched, the electronics in the missile look for the spot on the image where the contrast changes the fastest, both vertically and horizontally, and then attempts to keep that spot at a constant location in its view. Contrast seekers have been used for air-to-ground missiles, including the AGM-65 Maverick, because most ground targets can be distinguished only by visual means. However they rely on there being strong contrast changes to track, and even traditional camouflage can render them unable to "lock on".



regards!

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## A1Kaid

How does the Anza III compare with other MANPADS such as Javelin, Igla, and QW-2?


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## SQ8

A1Kaid said:


> How does the Anza III compare with other MANPADS such as Javelin, Igla, and QW-2?



FYI, 
Javelin is not a MANPAD.. its an ATGM..

Now, the Anza Mk-III is roughly equivalent in performance to the Sa-24 version of the Igla.. 
It is based on the QW-2 but with a few refinements to the guidance program.

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## mdcp

We can't match india or western air superiority in near future, so we should invest in sam systems with multiple ranges to target missiles and aircrafte
5 km is too little range atleat we should have 25, 50 , 100 etc , which can be fitted in vehicles with multi launch

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## BATMAN

So Anza can shoot down a drone .


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## A1Kaid

Oscar said:


> FYI,
> Javelin is not a MANPAD.. its an ATGM..
> 
> Now, the Anza Mk-III is roughly equivalent in performance to the Sa-24 version of the Igla..
> It is based on the QW-2 but with a few refinements to the guidance program.





> Javelin is not a MANPAD.. its an ATGM..



Yes Javelin is primarily an ATGM, but it can also attack aircraft if the target is laser painted and when Javelin is set to direct mode. Javelins can target nearby aircraft such as attack helicopters, though yes it is primarily an ATGM but also has the capacity to serve as a MANPAD.


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## SQ8

A1Kaid said:


> Yes Javelin is primarily an ATGM, but it can also attack aircraft if the target is laser painted and when Javelin is set to direct mode. Javelins can target nearby aircraft such as attack helicopters, though yes it is primarily an ATGM but also has the capacity to serve as a MANPAD.



In that respect the IAI LAHAT and 9M119 Refleks systems can also engage low flying helicopters.. 
But they were never optimized for and/Or primarily designed for that role.
Hence do not fall under the category of SAM's or MANPADS for that matter

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## A1Kaid

mdcp said:


> We can't match india or western air superiority in near future, so we should invest in sam systems with multiple ranges to target missiles and aircrafte
> 5 km is too little range atleat we should have 25, 50 , 100 etc , which can be fitted in vehicles with multi launch




Agreed 5km range isn't optimal, though Anza III can certainly attack attack helicopters and other low flying aircraft such as drones or even low flying jets. Though Pakistan needs to develop Anza IV with at least 25km operational range and advance sensors which will allow the missile to hit high altitude targets.

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## SQ8

A1Kaid said:


> Agreed 5km range isn't optimal, though Anza III can certainly attack attack helicopters and other low flying aircraft such as drones or even low flying jets. Though Pakistan needs to develop Anza IV with at least 25km operational range and advance sensors which will allow the missile to hit high altitude targets.



The ADGE of Pakistan is laughable at best. 
There were very little long range circles to integrate within our new C4I system when it was in development. 
The longest ranged ones are near key spots.. ..the rest are just tiny V's that will have to move around rapidly on orders in any hope of intercepting the enemy.

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## tarrar

Pakistan needs SAM very bdaly & Pakistan's only option in China. To be honest China has made serious amount of progress in every field, so Pakistan needs to stick with China because nobody will give anything to Pakistan today.

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## wakapdf

Can it shoot down a drone? If yes, why arent we deploying it in waziristan area?


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## Skull and Bones

wakapdf said:


> Can it shoot down a drone? If yes, why arent we deploying it in waziristan area?



Nothing can shoot drown drones, when it's flying over Pakistani airspace.

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## wakapdf

Skull and Bones said:


> Nothing can shoot drown drones, when it's flying over Pakistani airspace.



Wanna sell us your Akash! Maybe that will help

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## Skull and Bones

wakapdf said:


> Wanna sell us your Akash! Maybe that will help



Or maybe you should give some Anza to tribal factions. They have the guts to press the trigger.


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## wakapdf

Skull and Bones said:


> Or maybe you should give some Anza to tribal factions. They have the guts to press the trigger.



Its not a matter of guts, but who will face the fallout once that trigger is pressed?

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## Skull and Bones

wakapdf said:


> Its not a matter of guts, but who will face the fallout once that trigger is pressed?



Pakistan.


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## wakapdf

Skull and Bones said:


> Pakistan.



Exactly, we are currently not in a position to face off but we are getting there. Give us a few good years with the new gov, we wont only bring it down but exhibition it as one of our own.

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## farhan_9909

@Skull and Bones 

history says otherwise

IAF's Searcher-II Loss on June 07, 2002 - Vayu Sena

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## v9s

farhan_9909 said:


> @Skull and Bones
> 
> history says otherwise
> 
> IAF's Searcher-II Loss on June 07, 2002 - Vayu Sena



Array bhai, he is talking about an Amreeki drone.

Even he knows we'd shoot down an Indian drone without a second thought.


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## Gentelman

mdcp said:


> We can't match india or western air superiority in near future, so we should invest in sam systems with multiple ranges to target missiles and aircrafte
> 5 km is too little range atleat we should have 25, 50 , 100 etc , which can be fitted in vehicles with multi launch



slow and steady wins the race....
wait and watch...
much learned and much still to learn.



wakapdf said:


> Can it shoot down a drone? If yes, why arent we deploying it in waziristan area?



it can.. 
well if these r deployed there then wt about funds of politicians???
ye harankhor to bookhay mar gaeyn gay agar uncle sam naraz o gaey.....
deekha ni abi NATO supply band karnay oe bi kitna naraz huey thay..



Skull and Bones said:


> Nothing can shoot drown drones, when it's flying over Pakistani airspace.



chk out ur drone shot down by anza mk2.....
not sure maybe it was shot down bt F 16


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## Gentelman

Skull and Bones said:


> Nothing can shoot drown drones, when it's flying over Pakistani airspace.



chk out ur drone shot down by anza mk2.....
not sure maybe it was shot down bt F 16


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## Slayer786

Stop these childish arguments. Pakistan cannot shoot down the drones as the Pak military and govt are getting billions of dollars from USA. The PAF is easily able to detect the drones when they come but are forced to ignore and let them do their dirty work. Pak military made a mistake I believe, as before they were actively helping the USA in the drone attacks, but since the civilian casualties they too want to distance themselves as much as they can. But now the devil has tasted blood and it will keep on killing until we stop taking their money.


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## MastanKhan

Slayer786 said:


> Stop these childish arguments. Pakistan cannot shoot down the drones as the Pak military and govt are getting billions of dollars from USA. The PAF is easily able to detect the drones when they come but are forced to ignore and let them do their dirty work. Pak military made a mistake I believe, as before they were actively helping the USA in the drone attacks, but since the civilian casualties they too want to distance themselves as much as they can. But now the devil has tasted blood and it will keep on killing until we stop taking their money.



Hi,

It never works that way----. If you notice the 'devil's' interest in your area --- then better take that source of 'interest' out yourself and neutralize it before the devil gets and makes the move---.

Once he is in your arena---taking money or not taking money don't make no difference---.

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## MastanKhan

Hi,

It is a tragedy that the paks still don't understand their screw ups till date. It was not the military that made the mistake---it was the civilians who had their heads where it is dark---.

The military already knew its limitations right from day one---at least they need to be credited with that---it was the pak civilians who were living in the lunatics asylum------so now pak may have close to a 100000 dead and 100's of millions in lost revenues and total loss of integrity of the state---this is the level of intellect of the citizen pakistan---where they have intentionally lost every thing piece by a piece---and they still have a hard time understanding that they themselves are the reason for their misfortunes---. They indeed are their own worst enemies.

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## arbit

@MastanKhan
What you say, is perhaps the most common sensical thing. I follow your posts. But you dole out a very bitter pill to swallow. And in these times no one is ready for it. You, my friend, is in a hopeless minority.

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## A1Kaid

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> It is a tragedy that the paks still don't understand their screw ups till date. It was not the military that made the mistake---it was the civilians who had their heads where it is dark---.
> 
> The military already knew its limitations right from day one---at least they need to be credited with that---it was the pak civilians who were living in the lunatics asylum------so now pak may have close to a 100000 dead and 100's of millions in lost revenues and total loss of integrity of the state---this is the level of intellect of the citizen pakistan---where they have intentionally lost every thing piece by a piece---and they still have a hard time understanding that they themselves are the reason for their misfortunes---. They indeed are their own worst enemies.



What does this have to do with Anza III? Have to disagree with your post, Pakistani civilians don't deserve all the blame but current and previous Governments and Administrations deserve the blame as well for the nations shortcomings.



> where they have intentionally lost every thing piece by a piece



"Everything", not true at all. Though let's leave it at that, the post is not related to Anza III.

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## MastanKhan

A1Kaid said:


> What does this have to do with Anza III? Have to disagree with your post, Pakistani civilians don't deserve all the blame but current and previous Governments and Administrations deserve the blame as well for the nations shortcomings.
> 
> 
> 
> "Everything", not true at all. Though let's leave it at that, the post is not related to Anza III.



Sir,

You may disagree as much you want to---but it stands as a historical truth that illiterate and clever civilians always dig their own graves. They are the sole cause of their own demise and destruction---. The proof is in the pudding---it has gone stale and become poisioness---.

I keep telling my compatriots to read your history---read the history of successful rulers---regardless of what nation religion or creed they were---. If you find the nation to be prosperous AND CIVILIANS HAPPY---that was for one and only one reason---the justice was swift and ruthless---and enemies of the state were taken out without any prejudice at a lightening pace---WITHOUT MERCY.

We people are truly illiterate ---- our whole of muslim civilization was destroyed by Ghengis Khan some 600 years ago---millions killed---cities raised to the ground---libraries burnt down---whole of empires and races disappeared from the face of the earth within a very short time---and exactly for very similar reasons---killers of trader were not brought onto justice---the emperor did not believe in the level of threat the mongols posed---the MULLAHS were doing the same thing---creating division amongst the believers---. And why were the mullahs doing that---because the emperor was weak---a strong emperor would have executed them and strung them high on the trees..

Now where does ANZA 111 come in this picture----every where my good man---. If the threat was taken down in time---we did not have to worry about making Anza 111---we would have had systems superior to anza 111.

At the end of the day--it is all about the multiplier effect---you fail in assessing the situation---the results and consequences would be of monumental proportions as they are ---.

In years to come---history will judge us terribly---it will put us to shame---it will show our misdeeds and incompetence to our coming generations---and they would be wondering like me----why would these paks make such stupid decisions when they already had the examples of Genghis Khan and vietnam in front of they----the examples that every pak child studied in their history books.

In the end---there will only be one conclusion---those who taught us the history of muslim civilization and that of the vietnam war---they lied to us---they lied and did not tell us the truth as to how it happened---our fathers and their fathers failed us as they failed the nation---.

Unless the parents and grand parents don't learn to speak the truth---as brutal as it may sound---a nation can never build on itself----.

A lie will take you only so far.

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## MastanKhan

arbit said:


> @MastanKhan
> What you say, is perhaps the most common sensical thing. I follow your posts. But you dole out a very bitter pill to swallow. And in these times no one is ready for it. You, my friend, is in a hopeless minority.




Hi,

Tell me about it---. Only if my pak compatriots could feel my suffering and pain---.

Ever heard of CASSANDRA TRUTH____no---here it is---enjoy---


Cassandra Truth
A prophet that, Cassandra-like, 
Tells truth without belief...
&#8212; Anonymous, "Advice to a Lover", 17th or 18th century English poem
Sometimes people just won't believe you.
You try your hardest to tell someone that your parents are actually super villains and that you need their help to bring them down, or that aliens have landed in your backyard and are now plundering your kitchen, or that the nice grandpa in the flat above you is in fact an evil bloodthirsty creature from another dimension, but the authorities look at you like you are crazy and send you packing. What's a lone protagonist to do?
A common staple of Disney and children's films, where the Kid Hero stumbles upon an evil conspiracy or a criminal ring and their parents and the police refuse to listen. The only thing to do is to save the day yourself, with PG heroics and Scooby-Doo style.
If the protagonist trying to report the situation works for someone who can actually do something about it, such as the FBI, it's not so much that s/he isn't believed, but Da Chief will tell him/her that it isn't worth it to expend resources "on a hunch".
This sort of situation can also be used to maintain the Masquerade: if a minor character finds out and tries to tell someone that the guy next door is secretly a Warrior of Justice, they won't be believed, because who would ever think that that foppish playboy could really be the dark, grim Super Hero? Often though, it's because they're horrible at wording it so it sounds genuinely insane.
Sometimes Character A actually asks what's going on and, when given the true-but-bizarre explanation by Character B, responds "Well, if you don't want to tell me, just say so".
Related to Devil in Plain Sight, except that in that case, the disbelief is mainly due to the deceptive abilities of the "devil", whereas in this one, it's usually due to strange circumstances, the perceived unreliability of the speaker, or just plain bad luck. It can also be a Crying Wolf situation, where the fact that the character lied previously is obfuscating the fact that they're telling the truth now. If it deals with uncovering something that might be dangerous and people don't believe the person not because they think they are lying but because they are crazy, see Properly Paranoid.
The title comes from the mythical seer Cassandra, whose prophecies were always accurate but never believed due to a curse from the god Apollo, thus making this Older Than Feudalism. (Writers of speculative fiction just looove to name precognitive or clairvoyant characters "Cassandra" or some variant thereof, like in Smallville, Buffy, Red Dwarf, and The X-Files).
If the person telling the truth is an NPC in a video game, they're spouting Infallible Babble. In this case, the in-game characters won't believe them, but a Genre Savvy player will.
If the character is the one guy to figure something out despite all the much more expert people working on the problem, he is an Einstein Sue.
This is often played to ridicule the doubters, even when the truth is on the level of the absurd. A protagonist warns others of a completely unlikely, nigh impossible event, but the audience, in on the secret, perceives a truth they would normally doubt themselves as completely obvious.
Subtropes are Ignored Expert and The Cassandra, where the character in question is in a position where they really should be believed, due to authority on the subject or track record of accuracy, but still isn't.
See also Not So Imaginary Friend, for a specific situation where the "truth" is the existence of a character. If the person telling the truth is dismissed by law enforcement officers, it's Police Are Useless. When the truth in question has something to do with Medium Awareness, compare Audience? What Audience?.
Contrast with Sarcastic Confession and You Wouldn't Believe Me If I Told You, or The Inner Reveal when they believe the truth. A particularly cynical twist is when whoever wasn't listening concludes that Cassandra Did It when what she's saying comes true.

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## A1Kaid

MastanKhan said:


> Sir,
> 
> You may disagree as much you want to---but it stands as a historical truth that illiterate and clever civilians always dig their own graves. They are the sole cause of their own demise and destruction---. The proof is in the pudding---it has gone stale and become poisioness---.
> 
> I keep telling my compatriots to read your history---read the history of successful rulers---regardless of what nation religion or creed they were---. If you find the nation to be prosperous AND CIVILIANS HAPPY---that was for one and only one reason---the justice was swift and ruthless---and enemies of the state were taken out without any prejudice at a lightening pace---WITHOUT MERCY.
> 
> We people are truly illiterate ---- our whole of muslim civilization was destroyed by Ghengis Khan some 600 years ago---millions killed---cities raised to the ground---libraries burnt down---whole of empires and races disappeared from the face of the earth within a very short time---and exactly for very similar reasons---killers of trader were not brought onto justice---the emperor did not believe in the level of threat the mongols posed---the MULLAHS were doing the same thing---creating division amongst the believers---. And why were the mullahs doing that---because the emperor was weak---a strong emperor would have executed them and strung them high on the trees..
> 
> Now where does ANZA 111 come in this picture----every where my good man---. If the threat was taken down in time---we did not have to worry about making Anza 111---we would have had systems superior to anza 111.
> 
> At the end of the day--it is all about the multiplier effect---you fail in assessing the situation---the results and consequences would be of monumental proportions as they are ---.
> 
> In years to come---history will judge us terribly---it will put us to shame---it will show our misdeeds and incompetence to our coming generations---and they would be wondering like me----why would these paks make such stupid decisions when they already had the examples of Genghis Khan and vietnam in front of they----the examples that every pak child studied in their history books.
> 
> In the end---there will only be one conclusion---those who taught us the history of muslim civilization and that of the vietnam war---they lied to us---they lied and did not tell us the truth as to how it happened---our fathers and their fathers failed us as they failed the nation---.
> 
> Unless the parents and grand parents don't learn to speak the truth---as brutal as it may sound---a nation can never build on itself----.
> 
> A lie will take you only so far.



I understand where you're coming from Mastan believe me if you have read my posts anytime in the past few years you will know I understand the major failures of our society. I do appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us.



> We people are truly illiterate ---- our whole of muslim civilization was destroyed by Ghengis Khan some 600 years ago



Mastan, sack of Baghdad didn't end Islamic power in the world it certainly brought damage and great harm, but other Muslim empires did rise up after the sack of Baghdad. Ottoman Empire in the 14th century and Mughal empire in the 16th century most noticeably were powerful Muslim empires and were deemed advance civilizations If you think we have it bad compare Mongols of Genghis Khan's time and look at Mongolia today.




> Now where does ANZA 111 come in this picture----every where my good man---. *If the threat was taken down in time*---we did not have to worry about making Anza 111---we would have had systems superior to anza 111.



Of course Mastan, we can rightfully blame the Mughals for this mess, had they taken care of our enemies during their rule we would not be facing many of the problems we face today, of course this being history one can keep going back in time and point out other reasons but I find the Mughals a relevant point to start.




> We people are truly illiterate



Agreed in the larger sense our society seems to be illiterate of the higher and more advance truths and information possessed by the the advance nations of today, we are not cutting edge as them, not as innovating as them, nor can we compete with them in this century. Unfortunately, Mastan I feel we simply live in a bad historical period of Muslim society, other centuries were much kinder to us. Muslim countries failed to industrialize, even today most Muslim countries including Pakistan are semi-industrialized, many western countries began to industrialize in the 19th century, it is an abysmal situation.

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## A1Kaid

@MastanKhan


On a lighter note I would like to share a quote with you from the Bible


"No weapon that is formed against you will prosper." - Isaiah 54:17


I wish that was the case...


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## naseem shah

§ Anza Mk-III - Believed to be based on the Chinese QW-2 MANPADS, modifications made to meet Pakistan Army requirements include a new firing unit similar to the Russian 9K38 Igla MANPADS. All-aspect attack capability and improved ECCM capability. The minimum altitude of 10 m gives capability to attack very low flying helicopters and cruise missiles. Also has a vehicle-mounted launcher variant.


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## RAMPAGE

hi WebMaster if we replace the missile used by anza with an anti tank missile it can be changed into a fire and forget atgm right ?


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## ANPP

MAAZ ZAFAR said:


> hi WebMaster if we replace the missile used by anza with an anti tank missile it can be changed into a fire and forget atgm right ?



First you need to change fragment warhead by shaped charged warhead. Need to decrease speed for increase accuracy & most important part change/design a seeker.

It looks pretty easy but you need to cahnge hole missile's frame, alot of work would require to covert Anza to a potent ATGM.


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## RAMPAGE

thanks.does IA have any locally manufactured manpads?


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## farhan_9909

any picture of anza mk 3?


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## Wolfhound

hey can you guys tell me the specifications of anza mk3(seeker,range,altitude,optics) and whether or not it is man portable because i read that now its tripod and vehicularly mounted now and lastly how it compares with other systems like the stinger F


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## Thorough Pro

you don't use shaped charge warhead for air kills because shaped char warheads are meant for penetrating hard armour and need to come in contact with the target. For air kills fragment warheads are used because they don't need to come in contact with the target, warhead explodes when within predefined range of the target and the shrapnel does the job.



ANPP said:


> First you need to change fragment warhead by shaped charged warhead. Need to decrease speed for increase accuracy & most important part change/design a seeker.
> 
> It looks pretty easy but you need to cahnge hole missile's frame, alot of work would require to covert Anza to a potent ATGM.


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## SSGcommandoPAK

Kaiser said:


> Well it has been known to be various errors in Janes I would stay with the 15km claim which has been confirmed by more reliable sites and members on other forums (Ex-pakistani army)



so what type of aircraft can it shoot down


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## acetophenol

RAMPAGE said:


> thanks.does IA have any locally manufactured manpads?


No,India does not have any locally made MANPADs,we have large number of Strelas and Iglas though

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## IHK_PK

so no pic of anza3 yet????


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Modest improvement

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## fatman17

10 year old thread however the ANZA III project was discontinued. no marked difference between II and III.

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## Random Jan-e-mann

fatman17 said:


> 10 year old thread however the ANZA III project was discontinued. no marked difference between II and III.


They did some imrovements

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## ejaz007

YousufSSG said:


> so what type of aircraft can it shoot down



The ones that fly.

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## Danish saleem

if we develop Anza , which is Ground to Air Missile, then why we don't put that in plane, and make it Air to Air missile as well ??

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## Cool_Soldier

Technically both types are totally different.

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## fatman17

Random Jan-e-mann said:


> They did some imrovements
> View attachment 301474



yes just on paper.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Just had a wandering question for these missiles such as Stinger or Anza series are these fire and forget after initial lock on by the unit

From perspective of ground soldiers not much training is needed

Nice to have few of these around when a low flying Helicopter or Transport copter or fighter Jet comes into range

A great improvement vs what we had prior i.e just Manual Anti Aircraft weaponry

Also I wonder sometimes why the Target acquire cannot be a small hand held Binocular device together with a launcher trigger

While the Anza missiles are stacked up on a 3 x 2 Rack

Here is a Stinger integrated with a Mobile platform





Moving the platform to the mobile platform , we might be able to increase the size of the missile so it can perhaps fly a bit higher (i.e more fuel) may be bring it to 0-10 km zone

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## JamD

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Just had a wandering question for these missiles such as Stinger or Anza series are these fire and forget after initial lock on by the unit
> 
> From perspective of ground soldiers not much training is needed
> 
> Nice to have few of these around when a low flying Helicopter or Transport copter or fighter Jet comes into range
> 
> A great improvement vs what we had prior i.e just Manual Anti Aircraft weaponry
> 
> Also I wonder sometimes why the Target acquire cannot be a small hand held Binocular device together with a launcher trigger
> 
> While the Anza missiles are stacked up on a 3 x 2 Rack
> 
> Here is a Stinger integrated with a Mobile platform
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moving the platform to the mobile platform , we might be able to increase the size of the missile so it can perhaps fly a bit higher (i.e more fuel) may be bring it to 0-10 km zone




_Just had a wandering question for these missiles such as Stinger or Anza series are these fire and forget after initial lock on by the unit_

Yes, all MANPADS I know of are fire and forget. When the operator points the launcher he or she is in fact pointing the seeker of the missile allowing it to lock on to the heat source.

_Also I wonder sometimes why the Target acquire cannot be a small hand held Binocular device together with a launcher trigger_

There is a sight attached with the system with which the user acquires the target. I don't see why the sight has to be binocular instead of monocular. A binocular sight will make it more cumbersome to operate.

_device together with a launcher trigger while the Anza missiles are stacked up on a 3 x 2 Rack_
For such systems there is a higher power acquisition system as I think you are suggesting. I don't know if we have developed such a unit using Anzas. I don't think we have as it would have limited utility over 6 guys with 6 anzas. Those guys can be spread out and are harder to hit.

_Moving the platform to the mobile platform , we might be able to increase the size of the missile so it can perhaps fly a bit higher (i.e more fuel) may be bring it to 0-10 km zone_

I fear the prohibitive factor isn't our incapability of making bigger rocket motors. It is seeker and control technology. Your idea will only make sense if we can develop a seeker that can detect beyond 5 km. And of course if we have the local expertise to modify the guidance system.

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## tommytrant20

now China has successfully tested intercontinental ballistic missile would be a focal provided great harm to neighboring countries and the international community / with teeth like the aggressive Chinese nuclear threat, there is nothing predictable


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

China is kind , wonderful , dependable friend - helper to nations and Honorable

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## Cool_Soldier

Man pad stories are now old enough, hoping something to come out soon with medium to high altitude and range.


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