# Egypt | Army Ousts Mursi govt, violence erupts | News & Discussions



## BLACKEAGLE

Gun battles and street fighting left at least four people dead and more than 200 injured as the anti-government insurrection called by Egypt&#8217;s opposition began to take hold.





In Cairo protesters torched the headquarters of the Muslim Brotherhood, the group to which President Mohamed Morsi swears allegiance. Demonstrators exchanged gunfire with guards inside the flaming building. Clerics have warned of civil war and activists are steeling themselves for further violence &#8211; yet nobody in Egypt appears to know quite what forces have now been unleashed.

Last night&#8217;s deaths &#8211; which occurred south of Cairo in the towns of Beni Suef and Assiut &#8211; came as tens of thousands of protesters surrounded the palace of President Mohamed Morsi in the east of the capital. Meanwhile in Tahrir Square, the crucible of the 2011 revolt, an estimated 200,000 protesters gathered to chant for an end to Mr Morsi&#8217;s rule.

Many streets in Cairo were eerily calm as families stayed at home in anticipation of widespread chaos. Metalworkers, meanwhile, have seen a sharp increase in demand for home-made handguns.

*&#8220;I don&#8217;t want Egypt to be the next Iran,&#8221; said 21-year-old Hussein Ahmad, among the sea of protesters outside Heliopolis Palace, Mr Morsi&#8217;s presidential seat. &#8220;That is what the Muslim Brotherhood wants.&#8221;
*
Nearby in Nasr City, a suburb, Mr Morsi&#8217;s supporters had massed. Many wore home-made body armour and were carrying shields and clubs &#8211; protection, they said, against threats of violence. The Muslim Brotherhood&#8217;s Islamist allies are angry at what they see as an attempt to subvert the democratic will.

For Mr Morsi and his supporters, the stakes over the next few days could not be higher. A recent article in a liberal newspaper provided an overview of George Orwell&#8217;s anti-totalitarian satire Animal Farm. A tongue-in-cheek disclaimer told readers that any similarities were purely co-incidental.

In the minds of many of his opponents, Morsi the would-be revolutionary has become Morsi the despot. The President, who famously stood in Tahrir Square following last year&#8217;s election and bared his chest to prove he was not wearing a bulletproof vest, has become the unbearable bête noire of many Egyptians, who see him as the embodiment of a country gone to seed.

After coming to power on the back of a broken Brotherhood promise not to field any presidential candidates, he initially won plaudits for his diplomatic interventions between Israel and the Palestinians.

Yet shortly afterwards he proceeded to alienate the nation&#8217;s secular political factions. In November he issued a disputed decree shielding his decisions from the judicial oversight. The decree was later rescinded, but soon afterwards Mr Morsi approved a referendum on a divisive constitution which had been forced through an Islamist-dominated assembly. It was this move that convinced many of the President&#8217;s critics that the Muslim Brotherhood was not interested in compromise. On the back of a sliding economy, the anger of Egyptians who can barely put food on the table is growing.

The Brotherhood argues that many of its actions have been a result of contending with a hostile judiciary and unhelpful elements from the previous regime. Now Mr Morsi finds himself faced with a popular insurrection reminiscent of that which toppled his predecessor, Hosni Mubarak.

Many analysts and opposition politicians believe that the only way the President will step down is if he is forced to by the military &#8211; a re-run of February 2011, when Mr Mubarak was left unsupported by his generals. Yet Egypt&#8217;s commanders may intervene only if serious unrest develops. &#8220;The army doesn&#8217;t want to rule directly,&#8221; said Cairo-based political expert Dr Ashraf el-Sherif. &#8220;The only way they will intervene is if the country is out of control.&#8221;

It leaves the opposition in a political bind. Officially their leading lights renounce violent protest and the prospect of a soft coup. Yet privately many accept that it is a military intervention which will defeat Mr Morsi &#8211; and such an outcome may only be secured by the violent deaths of protesters.

At least four dead as violence erupts in Egypt and clerics warn of civil war - Africa - World - The Independent

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## Jihad_

30% votes for Salafi's. I don't believe new elections would change much.



> I voted for President Morsi, but I regret it.
> I wish he'd implement the Islamic project - as he promised - and Sharia law, that's why we voted for him.


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## Yzd Khalifa

> &#8220;I don&#8217;t want Egypt to be the next Iran,&#8221; said 21-year-old Hussein Ahmad, among the sea of protesters outside Heliopolis Palace, Mr Morsi&#8217;s presidential seat. &#8220;That is what the Muslim Brotherhood wants.&#8221;



Seems like the Egyptians are on high alert.

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## Jihad_

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Seems like the Egyptians are on high alert.



Can u explain why SA fears the MB? Or doesn't like it?

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## Yzd Khalifa

Jihad_ said:


> Can u explain why SA fears the MB? Or doesn't like it?



 They deal with our sworn enemy, therefore, we can't trust them, period. However, Morsi is an ex-MB member as such, he doesn't raise much of a concern to us. 

I wouldn't call it a fear though but rather a concern.

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## BLACKEAGLE

Yzd Khalifa said:


> They deal with our sworn enemy, therefore, we can't trust them, period. However, Morsi is an ex-MB member as such, he doesn't raise much of a concern to us.
> 
> I wouldn't call it a fear though but rather a concern.



The funny thing is that Iranians are celebrating their fall.  Good riddance, I wish I could see how Jordanian MB leaders' faces look like right now

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## Hussein

BLACKEAGLE said:


> The funny thing is that Iranians are celebrating their fall.  Good riddance, I wish I could see how Jordanian MB leaders' faces look like right now



why your obsession with Iranians ?
what's the matter with Iranians ? what is the logic with "are celebrating their fall"? which fall? why?


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## BLACKEAGLE

Hussein said:


> why your obsession with Iranians ?
> what's the matter with Iranians ? what is the logic with "are celebrating their fall"? which fall? why?



Hmmm, Iranians used to hail MB and Morsi, and they counted on them to get Egypt on their side against AGCC, but as soon as he gave them the cold shoulder in several occasions especially regarding Syria, Iranians got against him, and even thought that Egyptians are protesting because their president has turned against Iran and it's cheap sellouts. Oh boy

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## Mugwop

I liked Egypt better when pharaohs were in control.

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## Hussein

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Hmmm, Iranians used to hail MB and Morsi, and they counted on them to get Egypt on their side against AGCC, but as soon as he gave them the cold shoulder in several occasions especially regarding Syria, Iranians got against him, and even thought that Egyptians are protesting because their president has turned against Iran and it's cheap sellouts. Oh boy


well Egypt is not a country that Iran having strong relations with.
so this is kind of non sense. Morsi or someone else, i don't think politics care about except being curious to know what happens.

Syria is a clear choice , and very logic from MB. Well considering it would be different ... no nobody in Iran was thinking this.

so you make up your own story boy.

Egypt to Egyptians. not important what they think of Syria, Iran or whatever


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## BLACKEAGLE

Hussein said:


> so you make up your own story boy.


Nope, not at all, Iranian regime and Iranian people including members here used to count on Egypt and were awfully let down. 


Hussein said:


> Egypt to Egyptians. not important what they think of Syria, Iran or whatever


Well, Egyptians like other Arabs don't give a flying crap about Iran but they do care about Syria.

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## Serpentine

BLACKEAGLE said:


> The funny thing is that Iranians are celebrating their fall.  Good riddance, I wish I could see how Jordanian MB leaders' faces look like right now



From every 10 words of you,9 are Iran or something related to Iran.You even changed the thread title for it, lol.

PS: Careful, an Iranian is behind you.

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## Hussein

You are Jordanian , not Egyptian, so mind not speak in the name of them. 

Again i have doubts you are Muslim. you always make lies and propaganda. or your brain is full of cheat.
This is totally crap that Iranian regime (i already said what think Iranian but you are too obsessed and liar to care of) would think MB would not care about MB rebels : rebels in Syria . Man what you say is such high on bullshit.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Era_923 said:


> From every 10 words of you,9 are Iran or something related to Iran.You even changed the thread title for it, lol.



No, I found it like this on Google while I was checking Egyptian protests (You can check it) , as for "obsession" with Iran, not really, but you guys are all over the place and I get to counter your propaganda.

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## BLACKEAGLE

Hussein said:


> You are Jordanian , not Egyptian, so mind not speak in the name of them.
> 
> Again i have doubts you are Muslim. you always make lies and propaganda. or your brain is full of cheat.
> This is totally crap that Iranian regime (i already said what think Iranian but you are too obsessed and liar to care of) would think MB would not care about MB rebels : rebels in Syria . Man what you say is such high on bullshit.



I'm an Arab and I do care about Egypt which happens to be the biggest Arab country. As for lies, no and I can prove it by your regime desperate tries to fabricate and twist MB and Morsi speeches and activities to make them pro-Iran. We used to have allot of big arguments in this forums with Iranians about whether Morsi is pro or anti Iran, and those members were desperately trying to show him as pro-Iran. @Era_923 knows what I'm talking about.

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## Aslan

BLACKEAGLE said:


> No, I found it like this on Google while I was checking Egyptian protests (You can check it) , as for "obsession" with Iran, not really, but you guys are all over the place and I get to counter your propaganda.




Bwhahahahahhaah mullah hussein doubts your islam. Now go in the corner and say 10000 hail maries.

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## Hussein

@BLACKEAGLE you should speak about things you are enough smart to speak about.

First you should know that Iranian regime lives with a propaganda INSIDE system... dedicated to the people
when Iran said Egypt was doing like the revolution of Iran for Islamic republic and take the model of Iran , this was for inside propaganda

of course nobody believes that Morsi and MB ... would not care about MB in Syria 
nobody seriously think Iran can influence or have any importance in the Egyptian matter

get it?



Aslan said:


> Bwhahahahahhaah mullah hussein doubts your islam. Now go in the corner and say 10000 hail maries.


he spends his time saying lies.
And by the way it is not enough to say i would be mullah to give you some credit .

saying i am mullah shows how stupid and hatred guy you are.

and well i don't care about the opinion of a taliban

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## Mitro

Islamic world is Fcukedup Because of Dajjal Unwanted Sons with guns .

Weak islamic world Good for Israel Big war .

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## BLACKEAGLE

Hussein said:


> @BLACKEAGLE you should speak about things you are *enough smart* to speak about.



Are you for real man? 



Czar786 said:


> Islamic world is Fcukedup Because of Dajjal Unwanted Sons with guns .
> 
> Weak islamic world Good for Israel Big war .



There is no "Islamic world", your country is called India, a secular country, just stick to it.

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## HAIDER

@al-hassani ...just curious Gamal Abdul Nasir...was taken as arab or african ..is their any arab-african tribe...or difference between arab and african muslim tribes..well what i read, he was arab nationalist leader..

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## al-Hasani

HAIDER said:


> @al-hassani ...just curious Gamal Abdul Nasir...was taken as arab or african ..is their any arab-african tribe...or difference between arab and african muslim tribes..well what i read, he was arab nationalist leader..



Well, what do you mean by African? African is not an ethnic group just a geographical term. Africans is a very diverse term. A black South African has little or no relations to a Egyptian 8.000 km north of South Africa or a Moroccan. Likewise a Somali/Ethiopian has little connection to a Senegalese 10.000 km towards the West.

Saudis and North Koreans are both "Asians" but what those that say? Not really anything. Inuits living in Siberia are also Asians and what have they in common with Pakistanis?

Arabs/Semtiic people have an ancient presence in both North Africa/Horn of Africa/Swahili Coast and the Middle East (Levant, Iraq, Arabian Peninsula) that goes thousands years back. In fact we all share a largely similar origin which modern day genetics have confirmed, aside from the cultural, social, linguistic, historical and religious aspects.

Arab tribes are found all over the Arab world. But that does not mean that people are tribal in the sense of the word. 

Regarding Gamal Abdel Nasser then read this below:



> According to biographer Robert Stephens, the inhabitants of Beni Mur belonged to an Arab tribe that hailed from the Hejazthe western part of the Arabian Peninsula. Stephens said Nasser's family had tribal inclinations and a sense of personal loyalty, differing from that of most Egyptians. Gamal Abdel Nasser's daughter, Hoda, said she was not informed of her family's lineage, but suspects the claim of its Arabian descent to be accurate. In addition, Gamal's biographers wrote that his family believed strongly in the "Arab notion of glory,"[4] citing the naming of Gamal's brother, Izz al-Arab ("Glory of the Arabs"); the name is a rare occurrence in Egypt, as well as other parts of the Arab world.[5]



*The presence of the Haplogroup J-P209 across the world which is the most common haplogroup among all Arab countries in the world today and among all Semitic people:*







Anyway we Arabs have mixed with other Semitic people since ancient times, even on the Arabian Peninsula since we Arabs did not come out of nothing obviously we have Semitic ancestors that we share with all Semitic people and we have intermarried etc. It is not different in Egypt. But yes, there are Arab tribes in Egypt that are still very conscious about their tribe and traditions but most Arabs today, that includes the Arabian Peninsula, just identify as Arabs today and their home countries and not only with their tribes although there is a strong sense of pride of ones family/past/tribes and ancestry.

In regards to Egypt then Hejaz, my home region, is a neighbor of Egypt and only the narrow Red Sea separates us. Even our dialects are quite close. Migrations have taken place back and forth and we even have a lot of Egyptians in KSA. 

Anyway this is all off-topic my friend and let us not derail the thread although it is difficult, I know.

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## Luffy 500

MB is democratically elected and hence can not be ousted by such mobs. It won't be good for egypt. The real problem in the muslim world are seculars. They can't stand anything except for their slave mentality secular ideology. Turkey's case is the same. MB should now try to consolidate power and show some spine in leadership if it wants to save egypt from secular intolerant tyrants, tyrants that have ruined egypt throughout the 20th century. If they lack leadership skills to fend off against such obstacles then they don't deserve power no matter how much democratic it is.


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## HAIDER

al-Hasani said:


> Well, what do you mean by African? African is not an ethnic group just a geographical term. Africans is a very diverse term. A black South African has little or no relations to a Egyptian 8.000 km north of South Africa or a Moroccan. Likewise a Somali/Ethiopian has little connection to a Senegalese 10.000 km towards the West.
> 
> Saudis and North Koreans are both "Asians" but what those that say? Not really anything. Inuits living in Siberia are also Asians and what have they in common with Pakistanis?
> 
> Arabs/Semtiic people have an ancient presence in both North Africa/Horn of Africa/Swahili Coast and the Middle East (Levant, Iraq, Arabian Peninsula) that goes thousands years back. In fact we all share a largely similar origin which modern day genetics have confirmed, aside from the cultural, social, linguistic, historical and religious aspects.
> 
> Arab tribes are found all over the Arab world. But that does not mean that people are tribal in the sense of the word.
> 
> Regarding Gamal Abdel Nasser then read this below:
> 
> 
> 
> *The presence of the Haplogroup J-P209 across the world which is the most common haplogroup among all Arab countries in the world today and among all Semitic people:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway we Arabs have mixed with other Semitic people since ancient times, even on the Arabian Peninsula since we Arabs did not come out of nothing obviously we have Semitic ancestors that we share with all Semitic people and we have intermarried etc. It is not different in Egypt. But yes, there are Arab tribes in Egypt that are still very conscious about their tribe and traditions but most Arabs today, that includes the Arabian Peninsula, just identify as Arabs today and their home countries and not only with their tribes although there is a strong sense of pride of ones family/past/tribes and ancestry.
> 
> In regards to Egypt then Hejaz, my home region, is a neighbor of Egypt and only the narrow Red Sea separates us. Even our dialects are quite close. Migrations have taken place back and forth and we even have a lot of Egyptians in KSA.
> 
> Anyway this is all off-topic my friend and let us not derail the thread although it is difficult, I know.



Interesting read.



> Sami Moubayed
> 
> 
> 
> Forty years after his death at the age of 52, president Gamal Abdul Nasser of Egypt still raises plenty of controversy throughout the Arab and Muslim world.
> 
> There are many theories regarding Nasser&#8217;s untimely death in 1970, ranging from heart failure to poisoning at the hands of his Russian masseuse. Nasser was famously wrapping up an Arab summit aimed at ending war in Jordan between King Hussein and Yasser Arafat&#8217;s Palestinian Liberation Organization.
> 
> After seeing off his Kuwaiti guest, Prince Sabah Salem al-Sabah, the Egyptian leader collapsed and was proclaimed dead on September 28, 1970. Today, 40 years down the road, Nasser&#8217;s trusted aide, the Anwar Sadat, poisoned the Egyptian leader, has created uproar in Egypt by implying that Nasser&#8217;s deputy and successor, Anwar Sadat, poisoned the Egyptian leader.
> 
> Sadat was the third president of Egypt, serving from October 1970 until his assassination by fundamentalists on October 6, 1981.
> 
> Speaking on his program on the Doha-based al-Jazeera on September 16, Haikal said that both he and Sadat were present at a meeting at the Hilton Hotel in Cairo between Nasser and Arafat. Sadat noticed that Nasser was very tired, offering to make him a cup of coffee. He asked Nasser&#8217;s private cook to leave the kitchen, prepared the coffee, which Nasser drank &#8211; and died three days later.
> 
> The story ripped through Egypt and the Arab world like thunder, eliciting an immediate response from Sadat&#8217;s family, which sued Haikal for reputation slander. A few years back, Nasser&#8217;s daughter accused Sadat of killing her father and was fined 150,000 Egyptian pounds (US$25,120) by a Cairo court for slandering Sadat&#8217;s reputation.
> 
> Her brother Abdul Hakim Nasser called on Egyptian authorities to investigate Haikal&#8217;s claim, adding that one of Nasser&#8217;s aids, who later served under Sadat, had concealed nail clippings of the late president and snippets of his hair, to prevent a laboratory investigation on the causes of death.
> 
> Abdul Hakim noted that he was aware of the coffee incident but said there was no evidence to date implicating Sadat in his father&#8217;s murder. Speaking to an Egyptian daily, he said, &#8220;My father was a target of the American CIA and of the Israeli Mossad. There were a lot of people at the talks at the Nile Hilton. Even if you assume my father was poisoned, it is impossible to say who was involved.&#8221;
> 
> Nasser&#8217;s physician, al-Sawy Habib, ended his own 40 years of silence by penning an article for the mass-circulation daily al-Ahram, saying that Nasser suffered from myocardial infarction (the interruption of blood supply to the heart), hypercholesterolemia (high levels of cholesterol) and high blood pressure. Many members of Nasser&#8217;s family, including his mother, brothers, sisters and uncles, had died in their 50s, he added.
> 
> Haikal&#8217;s story, however, raises plenty of questions, for a variety of reasons. One is Haikal&#8217;s age, currently at 87, along with the fact that Haikal is known for weaving tales impossible to verify, filled with nothing but dead witnesses.
> 
> One question that comes to mind is why Haikal has waited 40 years to come out with such a bold statement. Why didn&#8217;t he do it when emotions were high against Sadat, during his 1977 visit to Jerusalem or after the signing of the Camp David Accords? Why didn&#8217;t he do it when Sadat fired him from his job at al-Ahram in February, 1974?
> 
> Another fact that raises doubt over Haikal&#8217;s argument is the status of Sadat in September 1970. He was a senior member of the Egyptian government, an ex-speaker of parliament serving as vice president. It is doubtful that he would offer to make Nasser&#8217;s coffee himself. And even if he wanted to kill his long-time friend and mentor, he would not have gotten his own hands dirty with such a crime, preferring to do it through a third party. Additionally, Nasser &#8211; unlike Arafat &#8211; was very careful when it came to his security after having suffered an assassination attempt in Alexandria in 1954.
> 
> The entire ordeal is a sad repetition of what was debated, behind closed doors, throughout the Arab world for most of the 20th century. It is a common argument for any leader who dies while in office without falling ill.
> 
> When Syrian president Taj al-Din al-Hasani died at the age of 57 in 1943, rumors circulated in Damascus that he had been poisoned by his doctors. When the author of Syria&#8217;s first republican constitution, Fawzi al-Ghazzi, died of poisoning at the age of 38 in 1929, Syrian courts accused his wife of killing him to pursue a love affair with his nephew.
> 
> Today, 81 years later, theories are emerging that he might have been poisoned by French intelligence. The same story emerged when Arafat died, also of unnatural causes &#8211; believed to be poisoning &#8211; in November 2004.
> 
> The Haikal &#8220;bombshell&#8221;, as the Egyptian press is labeling it, opens the door wide for similar future arguments, blaming perhaps current Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas of &#8220;poisoning&#8221; Arafat. When taking the Gaza Strip in 2007, Hamas claimed it found documents implicating one of Arafat&#8217;s aides, Mohammad Dahlan, ex-chief of preventive security, of having discussed &#8220;slaughtering&#8221; Arafat with then-Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon.
> 
> Even if these figures were indeed murdered, the sad truth is that we will never know who killed them because archiving in the Arab world is poor &#8211; to say the least &#8211; and those who knew what happened, with the notable exception of Haikal, have taken the truth with them to the grave.
> 
> In Arafat&#8217;s case, for example, many Palestinians insist he was poisoned by Mossad. There is no way to verify that since last August, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu signed off on prolonging the confidentiality of national archives related to events before, during and after the war of 1948.
> 
> Anything related to the early years of the Zionist state and its relationship with the Arabs will therefore remain classified until 2018. Interestingly, the entire Nasser-Sadat ordeal resurfaces amid plenty of talk in the region about yet another political murder, that of Rafik al-Hariri, the ex-prime minister of Lebanon, in February 2005.
> 
> Hariri&#8217;s fortunes, and the audacity of the George W Bush White House, apparently entitled him to a special international tribunal to hunt down his assassins, costing millions of dollars. This is a luxury that neither Nasser nor Arafat had.
> 
> Just like we never really knew if Lee Harvey Oswald gunned down US president John F Kennedy on that fateful day in Dallas in November 1963, we might never know whether Nasser simply died young or was killed at the hands of one of his many opponents.
> 
> Sami Moubayed is editor-in-chief of Forward Magazine in Syria. This article appeared in Asia Times on October 8, 2010 entitled, &#8220;Egyptian Journalist Tells Poisoner&#8217;s Tale.&#8221;

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## TheThreePashas

I'm not _that_ familiar with Egyptian politics. Many people came out and said that there would not be a civil war say in, Turkey when the protests happening because obviously thats not close to happening in Turkey.

Nobody is ruling that out in Egypt though unfortunately and that's what scares me.


Would the mainstream Islamists react to a coup with violence? I know there are already insurgents in the Sinai but I mean in Cairo, big cities, etc..

Edit: I guess there could also be massive secular vs islamist violence that would kinda be a three way civil war too? (Army fighting both sides, trying to quell violence)


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## livingdead

I dont think it will happen, army will step in if there is such situation, and brotherhood is not that strong. They have lost their secular and christian allies now.


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## HAIDER

Egyptian want their cold beer back on their table.


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## TheThreePashas

hinduguy said:


> I dont think it will happen, army will step in if there is such situation, and brotherhood is not that strong. They have lost their secular and christian allies now.



Well from what I'm seeing, it's already inevitable that the army will step in. 


Any Egyptians on the forum that are familiar with the issue?


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## Thəorətic Muslim

Civil War between who? 

The majority of Egyptians are Sunni Muslims, and are very tolerant of the minorities. So no sectarian war. 

Civil War between the Political Parties? No.

The Army will crush any war in seconds. Its very disciplined and isn't going to let some idiots start anything.


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## livingdead

Th&#601;or&#601;tic Muslim;4478996 said:


> Civil War between who?
> 
> The majority of Egyptians are Sunni Muslims, and are very tolerant of the minorities. So no sectarian war.
> 
> Civil War between the Political Parties? No.
> 
> The Army will crush any war in seconds. Its very disciplined and isn't going to let some idiots start anything.


civil war between islamists and rest (copts + secularists) ... not much chance though..

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## TheThreePashas

Th&#601;or&#601;tic Muslim;4478996 said:


> Civil War between who?
> 
> The majority of Egyptians are Sunni Muslims, and are very tolerant of the minorities. So no sectarian war.
> 
> Civil War between the Political Parties? No.
> 
> The Army will crush any war in seconds. Its very disciplined and isn't going to let some idiots start anything.



Hmm. What if Egyptian Army tactics were interpreted as heavy handed by Islamists? That could mobilize enough people for an insurgency. Keep in mind it only takes several thousand people to keep an insurgency going for decades (PKK for example)


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## Thəorətic Muslim

TheThreePashas said:


> Hmm. What if Egyptian Army tactics were interpreted as heavy handed by Islamists? That could mobilize enough people for an insurgency. Keep in mind it only takes several thousand people to keep an insurgency going for decades (PKK for example)



Poke the Lion enough it's going to get pissed. 

Turkey got unlucky with the PKK able to walk into Syria, Iraq, Iran. 

Where are the 'Islamists' going to go? Sinai? Israel wouldnt mind letting an extra Egyptian Brigade into Sinai to search and kill. 

Lets keep in mind that the Egyptian Intelligence Services have a handle on the situation.


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## TheThreePashas

Th&#601;or&#601;tic Muslim;4479026 said:


> Poke the Lion enough it's going to get pissed.
> 
> Turkey got unlucky with the PKK able to walk into Syria, Iraq, Iran.
> 
> Where are the 'Islamists' going to go? Sinai? Israel wouldnt mind letting an extra Egyptian Brigade into Sinai to search and kill.
> 
> Lets keep in mind that the Egyptian Intelligence Services have a handle on the situation.



Not that they can walk into Syria, Iraq, Iran. It's that they were allowed and encouraged by said countries. You don't think Israel would be fine by Egypt being weakened by a civil war?

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## Syrian Lion

This is the plan, which is to destroy every Army close to Israel, that is Syria, Egypt, and Hezbollah... now Israel can destroy Egypt without war, just economically... so no war in Egypt.. unless terrorists MB start killing and bombing others as they threatened...

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## Thəorətic Muslim

TheThreePashas said:


> Not that they can walk into Syria, Iraq, Iran. It's that they were allowed and encouraged by said countries. You don't think Israel would be fine by Egypt being weakened by a civil war?



Israel is trying to maintain their 'restrictions' on Gaza. They dont need to weaken Egypt with an active insurgency, when the Egyptian media is doing it for free.


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## Doritos11

Israel&USA always meddle in our countries, look at how many coups they have supported, wars started/supported, they hold a responsibility in all this destruction.

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## Pakistanisage

Egyptian Society is a strong Society with a lot of Culture and Scholars. There is a danger of Civil War because there are unruly mobs in Egypt. Let us not forget what happened in Port Said over a football match and 79 people died. It can get crazy but lets hope cooler heads prevail.

BTW, those thugs in Port Said were secular freaks and not Muslim Brotherhood , so this knee jerk propaganda against MB is uncalled for.

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## iranigirl2

Army concern about the way President Mohamed Morsi was governing Egypt reached tipping point when the head of state attended a rally packed with hardline fellow Islamists calling for holy war in Syria, military sources have said.

At the June 15th rally, Sunni Muslim clerics used the word infidels to denounce both the Shias fighting to protect Syrian president Bashar al-Assad and the non-Islamists that oppose Mr Morsi at home.

Mr Morsi himself called for foreign intervention in Syria against Mr Assad, leading to a veiled rebuke from the army, which issued an apparently bland but sharp-edged statement the next day stressing that its only role was guarding Egypts borders.

The armed forces were very alarmed by the Syrian conference at a time the state was going through a major political crisis, said one officer, whose comments reflected remarks made privately by other army staff. He was speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not permitted to talk to the media.

*Crippling flaw*

The controversy surrounding the Syria conference pointed to a crippling flaw in the Morsi presidency: though the constitution names Mr Morsi as supreme commander of the armed forces, the military remains master of its own destiny and a rival source of authority to the countrys first freely elected head of state.

The armys dramatic ultimatum demanding Mr Morsi and other politicians settle their differences by tomorrow afternoon caught the presidency completely off guard. Triggered by mass protests against Mr Morsis rule, it amounted to a soft coup by a military that has been a major recipient of US aid since the 1970s, when Egypt made peace with neighbouring Israel.

The army has cited the need to avoid bloodshed as its main motivation. It is also worried by other major problems facing Egypt, including an economic crisis that has wiped out more than a tenth of the value of the currency this year, making it harder for the state to import fuel and food.

Speaking on the eve of the protests, the president had dismissed the idea that the army would take control again.

If Mr Morsi was aware of irritation in the army, he chose to ignore it, believing his mandate as Egypts democratically elected leader gave him licence to make policy the way elected leaders do elsewhere in the world.

For the army, the Syria rally had crossed a national security red line by encouraging Egyptians to fight abroad, risking creating a new generation of jihadists, said Yasser El-Shimy, analyst with the International Crisis Group.

At the heart of the militarys concern is the history of militant Islam in Egypt, homeland of al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahri. The military source condemned recent remarks made by retired terrorists allied to Mr Morsi, who has deepened his ties with the once-armed group al-Gamaa al-Islamiya.


Speaking privately, officers in the secular-leaning military have said Egyptians did not want a religious state. Though the Brotherhood never said it wanted to set up a theocracy, such concerns reflect the armys long-standing suspicion towards a movement banned by army rulers in 1954.

In public, Mr Morsi and the army have kept up appearances. The presidency has moved repeatedly to quash rumours of tensions with the generals.

*Economic empire*

And the constitution signed into law by Mr Morsi late last year protects the interests of the military, which oversees a sprawling economic empire that produces everything from bottled water to tablet computers.

The presidency didnt perceive the military as a threat, added Shimy of the International Crisis Group.

The current head of the armed forces, General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, was appointed by Mr Morsi in his second month in office after he sent into retirement Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi, Mr Mubaraks defence minister for two decades.

Twenty years Tantawis junior, Gen al-Sisi was promoted from the position of military intelligence director. Analysts have described it as an arrangement that suited both Mr Morsi and a younger generation of army commanders seeking promotion.

He was trained in the United States and Britain, like many officers in an army that receives $1.3 billion (1 billion) in military aid a year from Washington.

While saying the army was out of politics, Gan al-Sisi has repeatedly called on Egypts feuding politicians to settle their differences. In December, he chaired unity talks to ease tensions ignited by a decree that expanded Mr Morsis powers.

Earlier this year, Gen al-Sisi warned that unrest could bring down the state. He also responded to calls for the army to unseat Mr Morsi, saying: No one is going to remove anybody.

The army has not said what Mr Morsis fate will be under the plan it has said it will implement if the politicians fail to agree.

Gen al-Sisi is something of an Islamist himself, said Robert Springborg, an expert on the Egyptian military based at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. He was citing materials written by Gen al-Sisi during his training in the US. As I see it they are trying to assert as much pressure as possible to bring about a compromise settlement, he said.

The militarys actions this week should be viewed as those of an institution, not individuals, added Nathan Brown, an expert on Egypt at George Washington University.

The personal inclinations of individual members of the armed forces are not the issue and are not on display here.

There is one thing we do know about the ideology of the military, he said: That it sees itself as having a mission to the state rather than the constitution. Reuters


Morsi role at Syria rally seen as tipping point for Egypt army - The Irish Times - Tue, Jul 02, 2013

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## bdslph

first i thought Morsi was a good guy who will turn the Egypt 
but what i have seen until now nothing changed 

He last Palestine war so i was like ok he is good and peaceful 
when it came to Syria he is talking crazy so better remove him 
he is not a peaceful man and also Egyptian also suffering a lot 


but one thing i will say EGYPT is a beautiful country and it should be kept that way 

the next President of Egypt should make better of the country and also for foreign policy 

Sharia Law will not work in EGYPT i lived there before and i know it

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## HAIDER

Egyptian army don t want to be part of Syria crisis . But they don t want to topple Morsi...what options he has left ????


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## Jihad_

But... The people support it...

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## MooshMoosh

Again stupid Persian posting Egypt news. They'll never support Assad or Iran so STFU and stop being jealous.



Jihad_ said:


> But... The people support it...


of course they do support the revolution. This Persian who posted this is jealous.

This is two weeks ago with Morsi publicity support Syrian revolution. BTW, army is Suuni who hates Persian and Persians are supporting Assad so the Egyptian army support the Syrian revolution and they'll never allow anyone to rule Egypt that support Persian rafihdas. It's obvious this article the Persian posted is useless.

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## somebozo

Islamists are hero's in Syria but terrorist at home..Arab and Islamic hypocrisy knows no bounds...

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## Audio

> The Egyptian army *has started taking over sensitive facilities in the country*, Sky Arabia quoted opposition elements as saying.
> 
> It was further reported that the army had contacted the president of the constitutional court which is slated to head the country in a post-Morsi era according to the army's "road map." The reports could not be confirmed. (Roi Kais)



Report: Egyptian army taking over sensitive facilities - Israel News, Ynetnews


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## Zarvan

bdslph said:


> first i thought Morsi was a good guy who will turn the Egypt
> but what i have seen until now nothing changed
> 
> He last Palestine war so i was like ok he is good and peaceful
> when it came to Syria he is talking crazy so better remove him
> he is not a peaceful man and also Egyptian also suffering a lot
> 
> 
> but one thing i will say EGYPT is a beautiful country and it should be kept that way
> 
> the next President of Egypt should make better of the country and also for foreign policy
> 
> Sharia Law will not work in EGYPT i lived there before and i know it



Egypt will suffer a lot if he is removed and only Shariah Law can safe Egupt other Syria can end into big trouble


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## MooshMoosh

Zarvan said:


> Egypt will suffer a lot if he is removed and only Shariah Law can safe Egupt other Syria can end into big trouble


Well, Abu Ismail was part of the candidate last year and said he would impose Sharia then all of sudden they kicked him out saying "his mother has US citizenship that was not eligible to participate in the election" but this was an excuse not to let him run the election


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## Zarvan

MooshMoosh said:


> Well, Abu Ismail was part of the candidate last year and said he would impose Sharia and fix economics then they kicked him out saying "mother has US citizenship that was not eligible to participate in election" but this was an excuse not to let him run the election



I can see clearly Egypt may end up in Civil war if you don't allow Brother hood to complete its term because this same blunder was made by Algeria and they are still facing the results so don't repeat the same blunder for GOD Sake


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## bdslph

there can be vote again but it will take time Muslim brotherhood is not doing well 
but the party covers he whole Egypt, the other other parties dont and they are new
Morsi was talking about Syria and now in his country it is messed up fix your country first 

but the other party can do well if they create alliance and try to control , there are good candidate
i dont want to see the Egypt to turn to some blood war it is a nice country


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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> Well, Abu Ismail was part of the candidate last year and said he would impose Sharia then all of sudden they kicked him out saying "his mother has US citizenship that was not eligible to participate in the election" but this was an excuse not to let him run the election



He lied and so was exposed as the fraud he is, nothing more. I will also condemn your previous statement on the basis that the Egyptian military is a nationalistic institution which includes all religions and classes both in its conscripted ranks and its commissioned officers ranks. There is also no tension or animosity between the majority of Egyptian and Iranian people based on sectarian or racial factors. 

Please refrain from further talk that incites fitna or hatred between any religions, sects or peoples.

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## Cheetah786

Zarvan said:


> Egypt will suffer a lot if he is removed and only Shariah Law can safe Egupt other Syria can end into big trouble





(Reuters) - Egypt's army commander and Islamist President Mohamed Mursi each pledged to die for his cause as a deadline neared on Wednesday that will trigger a military takeover backed by protesters.

Military chiefs, vowing to restore order in a country racked by demonstrations over Mursi's Islamist policies, issued a call to battle in a statement headlined "The Final Hours". They said they were willing to shed blood against "terrorists and fools" after Mursi refused to give up his elected office.

Mursi, Egypt army ready to die in 'Final Hours' showdown | Reuters


Egyptian army is not Pakistan army they will stick it to Islamist.Not to mention Egyptian armed forces have the support of millions of Egyptians.


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## Harmonia Dragon

egypt must stay neutral..........forget syria, forget palestine.................forget sunni & shia..............
leave them & forget them.......
build your country with modern system like malaysia,brunei,finlandia,norwey & swedia...........
close your border........build wall/fence in all your land border

shia,sunni & salafi/wahhabism..............kill them all...........Destroy Them

Pure Islam is best choice

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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> There is also no tension or animosity between the majority of Egyptian and Iranian people based on sectarian or racial purpose. Please refrain from further talk that incites fitna or hatred between any religions, sects or peoples.


Are you kidding me? "Oh yeah, Iran is trusted, they don't spread sectarianism" *sarcasm*. Why do you think Sadat and Mubarak never allowed them to Egypt after 1979? You must be blinded of what they were doing in the Gulf region and the ME. I have no hatred for religions at all but with the Shiites loyal to the sick regime Iran yep. You do realize if Egypt chose to co'operate with Iran then they'll lose support to the GCC. Under Mubarak, Iran was banned and Shiites were barely known in public. He wouldn't do it for nothing but there is a reason for that.

Peace

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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> Are you kidding me? "Oh yeah, Iran is trusted, they don't spread sectarianism" *sarcasm*. Why do you think Sadat and Mubarak never allowed them to Egypt after 1979? You must be blinded of what they were doing in the Gulf region and the ME. I have no hatred for religions at all but with the Shiites loyal to the sick regime Iran yep. You do realize if Egypt chose to co'operate with Iran then they'll lose support to the GCC. Under Mubarak, Iran was banned and Shiites were barely known in public. He wouldn't do it for nothing but there is a reason for that.
> 
> Peace


 The actions of despotic regimes does not reflect the true will of the people. There has never been any hatred towards the majority of Egyptian people. The majority being those who are of faith but to a large extent moderate and tolerant of other sects or religions.

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## genmirajborgza786

JUST GETTING NEWS 


*Breaking News: EGYPTIAN ARMY HAS TAKEN OVER STATE TV* 



> *Egyptian Army Occupies State TV Offices*
> 
> In a terse Twitter message, the Associated Press reported from Cairo that Egypt's military took over their state television network offices. According to the message, published under rushed conditions--the tweet did not follow Associated Press house style--"Military officers are present in state TV newsroom, monitoring content before ultimatum."
> 
> _The Egyptian military forcibly took over the country's state television network and assigned officers to oversee content as Cairo's situation worsens_.
> 
> Hours before the takeover, the state television network , reportedly leaving only a skeleton staff of engineers and sending all reporters into the field. The Egyptian military is expected to launch a coup d'etat today, and massive crowds numbering in the hundreds of thousands are occupying the streets in Cairo, Alexandria and other cities. Amid widespread discontent at President Mohammed Morsi's autocratic rule, mishandling of the economy, a massively rising crime rate, and perceived inept governance, there are bigger protests now than there ever were during the Egyptian revolution.
> 
> As for Morsi, he aired a rambling state address yesterday in which he openly challenged the Egyptian Army to battle. The situation in Egypt remains tense and unclear.
> http://www.fastcompany.com/3013867/fast-feed/egyptian-army-occupies-state-tv-offices



also reuters is reporting it along with the bbc in the tv 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/03/us-egypt-protests-studios-idUSBRE9620LS20130703

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## livingdead

this is bad...


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## iranigirl2

I hope Egyptians are careful not to push the country into a civil war.

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## Doritos11

Why bad

They know it better then us, let them do what they want and we will see what happens.

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## Armstrong

Oi @genmirajborgza786 what happened to your flags ?

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## Amaa'n

Apparently Plan has been prepared for abrogating the constitution by Military.... Martial Law is on the table, however President has said that they will not give into the pressure and will die fighting for democracy......but what democracy, he lost the support of his people

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## RuheTag

Egyptian army takes over state TV as military, opposition heads meet

Egypt braces for showdown: Army vehicles surround state TV building

I hope Pakistani Generals learn something from this.

Coups are back.. 

Lets prepare another plane for Mian Saheb.

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## Juice

Not a big fan of martial law....but watching what has been going on in Egypt it seems the army is the only institution with their head still attached. They seem like patriots and aren't angling for full power. I wish the army luck in fixing this mess.

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## kurup

genmirajborgza786 said:


> JUST GETTING NEWS
> 
> 
> *Breaking News: EGYPTIAN ARMY HAS TAKEN OVER STATE TV*



Please clear the doubt :

Is it *EGYPTIAN ARMY HAS TAKEN OVER STATE* or *EGYPTIAN ARMY HAS TAKEN OVER STATE TV* ???


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## DESERT FIGHTER

RuheTag said:


> Egyptian army takes over state TV as military, opposition heads meet
> 
> 
> I hope Pakistani Generals learn something from this.
> 
> Coups are back..
> 
> Lets prepare another plane for Mian Saheb.



Not going to happen ....


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## RuheTag

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Not going to happen ....



try karne mein kya haraj hai? would be fun..

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## JonAsad

Time to end the so called revolution- -

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## RuheTag

JonAsad said:


> Time to end the so called revolution- -



No, a new phase in revolutions starts...


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## Devil Soul

Husani MUbbarak will be laughing @ Revolutionists ..... i guess this was the plan of Egyptian Army all along since Mubbarak's departure from the political scene .....

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## JonAsad

RuheTag said:


> No, a new phase in revolutions starts...



What?- You mean a third revolution is going to start?- how many revolutions one needs to fix a country?-

Revolution against Husni Mubarak-
then
Revolution against Moursi- 
what a joke-

Future revolution will be against Army i guess- Behold another making of Syria-

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## DESERT FIGHTER

RuheTag said:


> try karne mein kya haraj hai? would be fun..



Baad mein bhai tum jaisoun nay he army kou galian nikalni hotien haien... army doesnt want to be a part of politics anymore..... its all upto the politicos... 

Democracy is the best revenge... 



JonAsad said:


> What?- You mean a third revolution is going to start?- how many revolutions one needs to fix a country?-
> 
> Revolution against Husni Mubarak-
> then
> Revolution against Moursi-
> what a joke-
> 
> Future revolution will be against Army i guess- Behold another making of Syria-



Another silly junta on the rise.... can this junta deliver? nobody knows.... as Robert Fisk wrote in his article abt egyptian army.... 
"Politicians can be rogues.... Generals can be killers"...

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## Manindra

Muslim brotherhood hijack revolution which starts by Egyptian youth. First time I supported martial law over this kind of democracy.
If this kind of extremist democracy prevail then Egypt become a stone age country because egypt has no petroleum.

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## genmirajborgza786

Armstrong said:


> Oi @genmirajborgza786 what happened to your flags ?



the Egyptian Army has taken my "democratically" prepared "kulfi falooda" with constitutional toppings of mango ice cream & Chinese grass , served it chilled in a nice glass of "Martial Law" & drank it all themselves & as a protest I have put on my flags

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## RuheTag

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> army doesnt want to be a part of politics anymore.....



muj jaiso ne ghalyan daini hien? how you know me? like you know army?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

RuheTag said:


> muj jaiso ne ghalyan daini hien? how you know me? like you know army?



I mean public... ur also among em... as for army... i know army coz im from a military background...

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## KingMamba

Devil Soul said:


> Husani MUbbarak will be laughing @ Revolutionists ..... i guess this was the plan of Egyptian Army all along since Mubbarak's departure from the political scene .....



No the Egyptian Army did not want to step in or else they would have when Morsi was dismissing their top leadership. They chose to step in now because from what I heard there are at least 30 million Egyptians protesting against Morsi. In other words they have been forced to do so and imo a full takeover will occur in a few days.


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## Armstrong

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I mean public... ur also among em... as for army... i know army coz im from a military background...



Kahan tukk teriii training pohanchiii - How soon till you can fly solo ?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Armstrong said:


> Kahan tukk teriii training pohanchiii - How soon till you can fly solo ?



Yaar abhi tou instructor k sath flyin kar raha hoon... bus dua kar....

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## Armstrong

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yaar abhi tou instructor k sath flyin kar raha hoon... bus dua kar....



Inshallah...

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## K-Xeroid

*Now That is disgusting*

Read more: Almost 100 women in Tahrir Square, Cairo, Egypt sex attacks | News.com.au


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## RuheTag

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I mean public... ur also among em... as for army... i know army coz im from a military background...



so you are military's spokesman because of your 'military background' ...


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## Imran Khan

good going lets wait for more blood now


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## Azazel

JonAsad said:


> What?- You mean a third revolution is going to start?- how many revolutions one needs to fix a country?-
> 
> Revolution against Husni Mubarak-
> then
> Revolution against Moursi-
> what a joke-
> 
> Future revolution will be against Army i guess- Behold another making of Syria-



It took many years and many revolutions for French to fix their country.Same may be the story here.


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## genmirajborgza786

kurup said:


> Please clear the doubt :
> 
> Is it *EGYPTIAN ARMY HAS TAKEN OVER STATE* or *EGYPTIAN ARMY HAS TAKEN OVER STATE TV* ???



state television building of egypt like ptv , doordarshan etc

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## DESERT FIGHTER

RuheTag said:


> so you are military's spokesman because of your 'military background' ...



Military spokesmen are saying the same thing arent they? as for me... im just expressing the general feeling/thinking found in the army...


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## RuheTag

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> im just expressing the general feeling/thinking found in the army...



ok, thanks for expressing your 'feeling'.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

RuheTag said:


> ok, thanks for expressing your feeling.



Not mine... the armys... or atleast the officers ive met...including senior officers...


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## A.Rafay

Armstrong said:


> Oi @genmirajborgza786 what happened to your flags ?



And the location!

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## Skallagrim

balixd said:


> Apparently Plan has been prepared for abrogating the constitution by Military.... Martial Law is on the table, however President has said that they will not give into the pressure and will die fighting for democracy......*but what democracy, he lost the support of his people*



How do you know? Perhaps he lost support of the louder ones only not the silent ones. Voices of the louder ones outnumbers voices of the silent ones because silence is by its very nature voiceless.


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## A.Rafay

Looks like they are warming up for coup.

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## Pakistanisage

This is the dumbest thing Egyptian Army ever did. They will pay a heavy price for this rebellion. 

I see a bloodbath of Coptics and the liberals. Egyptian people will sadly pay a heavy rice.

Whether they like Morsi or not he is a legally democratically elected President as more than half of Egyptians voted for him. Now those people who voted for Morsi will be mad as hell and they will come out in the streets.

There are no winners in this madness.

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## BDforever

K-Xeroid said:


> *Now That is disgusting*
> 
> Read more: Almost 100 women in Tahrir Square, Cairo, Egypt sex attacks | News.com.au



WTH ! ! ! so sick  so these kind of people want to bring down morsi ? so that they can do more disgusting work like this ?

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## Pakistanisage

Juice said:


> Not a big fan of martial law....but watching what has been going on in Egypt it seems the army is the only institution with their head still attached. They seem like patriots and aren't angling for full power. I wish the army luck in fixing this mess.






Army is never a Solution to Political Problems of a country.

It is such a hypocrisy for an American to promote Non Democratic institutions and yet rant and rave about democracy at home.

So since Obama is not doing such a good job you prefer US Army to take over the country ?

Quit being such a HYPOCRITE and stop taking DICTATION from your Masters in Tel Aviv, little Ms. ZIONIST.


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## Ceylal

Devil Soul said:


> Husani MUbbarak will be laughing @ Revolutionists ..... i guess this was the plan of Egyptian Army all along since Mubbarak's departure from the political scene .....


It is expected. The so called arab spring didn't bear the fruits its conceptors thought it will. Cuddling with political Islam was never a good idea....The next phase of the diabolic plan to re-arrange the middle east is coming...as it was seen by the first fallen head of the Emir of Qatar, now Morsi and who is the next KSA? Jordan?
The only smart country who saw it coming was Iran...She replaced the controversial Ahmadinejad with a pragmatic and experienced politician.

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## Sedqal

Pakistanisage said:


> This is the dumbest thing Egyptian Army ever did. They will pay a heavy price for this rebellion.
> 
> I see a bloodbath of Coptics and the liberals. Egyptian people will sadly pay a heavy rice.
> 
> Whether they like Morsi or not he is a legally democratically elected President as more than half of Egyptians voted for him. Now those people who voted for Morsi will be mad as hell and they will come out in the streets.
> 
> There are no winners in this madness.



I agree, a sad thing really.


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## Sedqal

Let hope this insanity doesn't give lofty ideas to our Generals .


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## Major Sam

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I mean public... ur also among em... as for army... i know army coz im from a military background...



Public to ab musharaf dour ko duaen deti ha

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## DESERT FIGHTER

usama waqas said:


> Public to ab musharaf dour ko duaen deti ha



Hahaha.... yeh koum he aisi hai..


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## Imran Khan

we are doing great man let democracy move on humy phli bar to 2nd term with respect or full powers mili hai lets not follow bloody dirty ideas . hum bilkul theek ja rahy hai next election main in ko bhi jawab dena ho ga .



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Hahaha.... yeh koum he aisi hai..



jesi bhi hai un se achi hai jo 1 saal bhi araam se nhi dety hum thandy pet waly hain hamray pass sabir hai ye sab zor laga leen akher main hum jeety gay . army apna kam kary or awam apna i love it 

we are democratic country and our army believe in ballet not bullet

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## RazPaK

Egyptians need to get jobs.

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## Imran Khan

RazPaK said:


> Egyptians need to get jobs.



so what you think if mursi goes jobs fall from sky???????? civilian leadership is the way not military yaar


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## Zarvan

Cheetah786 said:


> (Reuters) - Egypt's army commander and Islamist President Mohamed Mursi each pledged to die for his cause as a deadline neared on Wednesday that will trigger a military takeover backed by protesters.
> 
> Military chiefs, vowing to restore order in a country racked by demonstrations over Mursi's Islamist policies, issued a call to battle in a statement headlined "The Final Hours". They said they were willing to shed blood against "terrorists and fools" after Mursi refused to give up his elected office.
> 
> Mursi, Egypt army ready to die in 'Final Hours' showdown | Reuters
> 
> 
> Egyptian army is not Pakistan army they will stick it to Islamist.Not to mention Egyptian armed forces have the support of millions of Egyptians.


Egypt army is proving itself to be bunch off retards and your comments are enough to show why something is happening to a certain community and it would be Egyptian army responsible for civil war

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## RazPaK

Imran Khan said:


> so what you think if mursi goes jobs fall from sky???????? civilian leadership is the way not military yaar



No. They need to go to work instead of protesting every day.

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## Major Sam

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Hahaha.... yeh koum he aisi hai..



QOum se zada ham politcian he itnay Fcked han k un se kuch hota nhi... BALL LESS


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## DESERT FIGHTER

usama waqas said:


> QOum se zada ham politcian he itnay Fcked han k un se kuch hota nhi... BALL LESS



Who chooses the politicians?


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## HAIDER

Egyptian inflation rate is now 8%. Tourism and Suez canal is major source of revenue for Egypt. Tourism is pretty much dead. On top they are facing water crisis in near future,Ethiopia building new dam on main Niles tributaries. US and Western investors evaporated from Egypt. Plus Egyptian investor move their asset from Egypt. In other words , unstable political condition , law and order situation is mother of all social and economic disaster .

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## Imran Khan

RazPaK said:


> No. They need to go to work instead of protesting every day.



yeah they make it hobby daily . and they don't know but they are divided in 3 major groups now Islamist liberals and Christine. which is not good news for egypt


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## Frogman

Imran Khan said:


> so what you think if mursi goes jobs fall from sky???????? civilian leadership is the way not military yaar


 No one was expecting miracles in the first year, however, without any economic or political reform and a slew of broken promises and administrative blunders the overwhelming majority of Egyptian people have risen up. This uprising is also a result of the phony Islamists attempts to change the fabric of Egyptian society from a pious nation but one which calls for moderation and tolerance to a hard line and sectarian nation.

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## Islamic faith&Secularism

todays World does not like authoritarian people just like Mursi, Erdo&#287;an and Esad; when the egypt figures it out; the next station will be saudi arabia or Iran.

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## livingdead

Imran Khan said:


> yeah they make it hobby daily . and they don't know but they are divided in 3 major groups now Islamist liberals and Christine. which is not good news for egypt



among muslims, mursi has support of illterates and semi literates, educated and young are against him. And then there are still some supporters of old regime.
this is a backward step by army though.

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## flamer84

Travel ban on Morsi and his close advisors.-I see it on CNN

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## Yeti

Oh God this looks like it's going to get much worse before it improves I will put the news on when I get home!


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## iranigirl2

A military coup is underway in Egypt, according to President Mohamed Morsi's national security adviser. Security forces have placed a travel ban on President Morsi and a number of top Muslim Brotherhood officials, according to AFP sources.

The adviser stated that he expects army and police violence to remove pro-Mursi demonstrators from the streets of Cairo. 


A Morsi presidential aide stated that "no military coup can succeed against popular resistance without considerable bloodshed." 


Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi has offered a consensus government as a way out of the country's crisis, but offered no new compromises. The leader has refused to step down, and instructed the military not to "take sides." 


The proposed coalition government would include a Prime Minister elected by political powers, according to a presidential statement. The statement added that "the scenario that some parties are trying to impose is rejected by the people." 


Military coup underway in Egypt - national security adviser ? RT News


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## Doritos11

put it all in 1 thread!!!! this is annoying


----------



## iranigirl2

*Military coup underway in Egypt - national security adviser*


Military coup underway in Egypt - national security adviser ? RT News


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## flamer84

The army's first duty is to protect the people not the president.This is a revolution not a coup.


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## F.O.X

the Irony is .. first US supported Democracy .. once it failed to give them what they wanted now they are supporting Dictatorship ...


----------



## iranigirl2

it's just a complicated situation. What if the next elected president also fails to fulfill his promises? Will he be toppled as well? Whats next for Egypt?


----------



## Argus Panoptes

F.O.X said:


> the Irony is .. first US supported Democracy .. once it failed to give them what they wanted now they are supporting Dictatorship ...



The real irony is that the people of Egypt voted in Morsi, and now are fed up of him so quickly. Where is the patience to last out the full term?

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## Yeti

Argus Panoptes said:


> The real irony is that the people of Egypt voted in Morsi, and now are fed up of him so quickly. Where is the patience to last out the full term?




Not all the people the Muslim Brotherhood still back Morsi but there is a certain % of the Population that want him out


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## JayAtl

BDforever said:


> WTH ! ! ! so sick  so these kind of people want to bring down morsi ? so that they can do more disgusting work like this ?



it is morsi's people/supporters who getting violent...


----------



## Argus Panoptes

Yeti said:


> Not all the people the Muslim Brotherhood still back Morsi but there is a certain % of the Population that want him out



Of course, democracies never have 100% unity of views. The minority must wait for the next election to make its case for a change of government.

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## BDforever

JayAtl said:


> it is morsi's people/supporters who getting violent...



opposition party in tahrir square, not morsi supporter


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## Yeti

Argus Panoptes said:


> Of course, democracies never have 100% unity of views. The minority must wait for the next election to make its case for a change of government.




The thing is that the Military are saying they may scrap the whole constitution and start afresh calling for new elections but Morsi is saying this is not acceptable so what will happen now?


----------



## JayAtl

BDforever said:


> opposition party in tahrir square, not morsi supporter



they are also going there... you may not get the latest in BD, but we see it here in the US. In fact they've been murdering people too


----------



## livingdead

JayAtl said:


> it is morsi's people/supporters who getting violent...



both sides are using violence..


----------



## Argus Panoptes

Yeti said:


> The thing is that the Military are saying they may scrap the whole constitution and start afresh calling for new elections but Morsi is saying this is not acceptable so what will happen now?




Whatever happens, it will not be good for Egypt or its people in the long run, that is for sure.


----------



## babajees

^ Wow.. How stupid. I think you only watch BBC.
AlArabiya TV showed MILLIONS of Morsi supporters near cairo univ (ignored by rest of media) VS thousands of protestors at tehrir square (promoted by fox, bbc).

Bye bye democracy. Welcome Army. Liberal Fascists + Israel and Americans welcome you with open arms!!

Real face of protestors at tahiri square: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=159136380939664

Morsi supporters in million, chanti Mursi Mursi Allah o Akbar: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=687019594647670&set=vb.100000189068342&type=2&theater


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## KingMamba

Yeti said:


> The thing is that the Military are saying they may scrap the whole constitution and start afresh calling for new elections but Morsi is saying this is not acceptable so what will happen now?



They should compromise, scrap the constitution but keep Morsi as President. It would be unfair to remove him before the end of his term he has popular vote legitimacy. It is the constitution that does not.


----------



## BDforever

JayAtl said:


> they are also going there... you may not get the latest in BD, but we see it here in the US. In fact they've been murdering people too



you are watching it USA ? well said


----------



## Yeti

KingMamba93 said:


> They should compromise, scrap the constitution but keep Morsi as President. It would be unfair to remove him before the end of his term he has popular vote legitimacy. It is the constitution that does not.



Would Morsi accept that? amending it scraping it altogether that is the key question now but the Military I think still holds a lot of power I think.


----------



## Patriots

Egyptians are on street of Cairo to support Mursi .......


----------



## Frogman

Argus Panoptes said:


> Of course, democracies never have 100% unity of views. The minority must wait for the next election to make its case for a change of government.



The problem is that over 17 million people (many of whom voted for Morsi) have taken to the streets to call for his downfall, this also comes as Tamarod (a grass roots democratic petition) gained 22 million signatures withdrawing confidence from the president and calling for him to leave. So you have an overwhelming majority of people (made of those already apposed to the regime and those who were sympathetic to the regime and those who may still have sympathy for the old one). Now with these numbers and the miniscule comparative numbers of MB supporters (and its affiliates) how can the president maintain his legitimacy?

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## Yeti

Why is the opposition refusing to sit down with Morsi also to work this out? that is another question


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## BLACKEAGLE

Frogman said:


> The problem is that over 17 million people (many of whom voted for Morsi) have taken to the streets to call for his downfall, this also comes as Tamarod (a grass roots democratic petition) gained 22 million signatures withdrawing confidence from the president and for him to leave. So you have an overwhelming majority of people (made of those already apposed to the regime and those who were sympathetic to the regime and those who may still have sympathy for the old one). Now with these numbers and the miniscule comparative numbers of MB supporters (and its affiliates) how can the president maintain his legitimacy?







 @Yzd Khalifa

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## flamer84

Yeti said:


> Why is the opposition refusing to sit down with Morsi also to work this out? that is another question



Because they hold all the cards,Morsi is done,why negociate with a dead man?

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## Frogman

babajees said:


> ^ Wow.. How stupid. I think you only watch BBC.
> AlArabiya TV showed MILLIONS of Morsi supporters near cairo univ (ignored by rest of media) VS thousands of protestors at tehrir square (promoted by fox, bbc).
> 
> Bye bye democracy. Welcome Army. Liberal Fascists + Israel and Americans welcome you with open arms!!
> 
> Real face of protestors at tahiri square: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=159136380939664
> 
> Morsi supporters in million, chanti Mursi Mursi Allah o Akbar: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=687019594647670&set=vb.100000189068342&type=2&theater


 @amirPharaoh, Teez elwala dah hamra.







Largest protests in human history 17 million + largest estimate at 33 million. Go watch any live stream and you will see these numbers remain.

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## Yeti

flamer84 said:


> Because they hold all the cards,Morsi is done,why negociate with a dead man?



mmm But does he still not have mass support? Do we know the number of followers he still has? I can not answer this


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## iranigirl2

Karma for calling Shias names and threatening to wipe them off... I'm sure somewhere Assad is Laughing his A S S off.......


I hope the next president is not sectarian and respects ALL EGYPTIANS!

Good luck to Egypt.


I wish my people were as courageous as Egyptians.

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## JayAtl

BDforever said:


> you are watching it USA ? well said



yes, in a 5 bedroom house with 6 TV's , 3 car garage and 1.5 acre land. where do you watch it? bangla - who -deesh?

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## Yeti

Wish we had more Egyptian members on PDF to gain a insight I know one person I speak to on Yahoo but he supports Muslim Brotherhood.


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## flamer84

Yeti said:


> mmm But does he still not have mass support? Do we know the number of followers he still has? I can not answer this



I think they rely on the army to get rid of Morsi's followers,i see on CNN that army vehicles are heading towards the place where MB protestors are gathered.


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## Yeti

flamer84 said:


> I think they rely on the army to get rid of Morsi's followers,i see on CNN that army vehicles are heading towards the place where MB protestors are gathered.




I saw that also in the newspaper something like 1500 of his followers are camped outside the Palace this might get ugly

*Supporters of Egypt's Islamist President Mohammed Morsi hold sticks and wear protective gear during training outside of the Rabia el-Adawiya mosque near the presidential palace, in Cairo, Egypt, Tuesday, July 2, 2013. Across town, Morsi's Islamist backers have hunkered down at their own rally site, vowing to resist what they depict as a threat of a coup against a legitimately elected president. (AP Photo/Amr Nabil)*

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## Dr. Strangelove

RuheTag said:


> Egyptian army takes over state TV as military, opposition heads meet
> 
> Egypt braces for showdown: Army vehicles surround state TV building
> 
> I hope Pakistani Generals learn something from this.
> 
> Coups are back..
> 
> Lets prepare another plane for Mian Saheb.



THIS TIME THERE WILL BE NO PLANE TO KSA OR ANY WHERE


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## BDforever

JayAtl said:


> yes, in a 5 bedroom house with 6 TV's , 3 car garage and 1.5 acre land. where do you watch it? bangla - who -deesh?



OOoooopppppps some one has house  why did make it personal you dump ? i did not question about you, i question USA and western media reporting. it shows again that money can not make u brainy.


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## JayAtl

BDforever said:


> OOoooopppppps some one has house  why did make it personal you dump ? i did not question about you, i question USA and western media reporting. it shows again that money can not make u brainy.



you seemed to question the biggest international media market ...vs. your tiny source in bangla -who-desh

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## HAIDER

Egyptian in transition period they are learning democracy. All pillar of Egyptian society learning their role and where they stand. It look very bad right now , but its very good for the future. But democracy is for the people, if they think he is fail to deliver to people of Egyptian , then...........


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## Audio

I like how most Pakistanis casually gloss over the fact that under MB leadership Egypt has become unsafe for non-Muslims. And just whine about some sort of long term effects, how it is a mistake to topple Morsi etc...

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## BDforever

JayAtl said:


> you seemed to question the biggest international media market ...vs. your tiny source in bangla -who-desh



did you mean biggest international propaganda media market ?


----------



## iranigirl2

*Military vehicles heading in direction of pro Morsi rally *




https://twitter.com/kfahim


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## JayAtl

BDforever said:


> did you mean biggest international propaganda media market ?



is that what your local mullah is the 3rd world dump of a bangla-who-desh preaches?

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## iranigirl2

*
Armoured car retreating, a bit. "Go back!" Islamist chant. *






*Source:*https://twitter.com/kfahim


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## BDforever

JayAtl said:


> is that what your local mullah is the 3rd world dump of a bangla-who-desh preaches?



nah local mullah hardly care about this issue, anyway a 3rd world country fellow who went to another country and then trying to down another 3rd world country, OOOoooppps smarty pant


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## iranigirl2

*Soldiers fire in the air to disperse Islamists*





https://twitter.com/kfahim/status/352462851887230976/photo/1

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## Argus Panoptes

Frogman said:


> The problem is that over 17 million people (many of whom voted for Morsi) have taken to the streets to call for his downfall, this also comes as Tamarod (a grass roots democratic petition) gained 22 million signatures withdrawing confidence from the president and calling for him to leave. So you have an overwhelming majority of people (made of those already apposed to the regime and those who were sympathetic to the regime and those who may still have sympathy for the old one). *Now with these numbers and the miniscule comparative numbers of MB supporters (and its affiliates) how can the president maintain his legitimacy?*



The legitimacy of an elected head of government lasts the duration of the entire term unless he/she chooses to resign or call elections. But only in a civilized democracy.


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## iranigirl2

*Standoff here. One Sheikh negotiating for a retreat*







https://twitter.com/kfahim/status/352469276252311552/photo/1

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## agentny17

Argus Panoptes said:


> The legitimacy of an elected head of government lasts the duration of the entire term unless he/she chooses to resign or call elections. But only in a civilized democracy.


Or doesn't respect the constitution and the law.............. I am pretty sure the millions of Egyptians in the streets don't agree with you.

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## Argus Panoptes

agentny17 said:


> Or doesn't respect the constitution and the law.............. I am pretty sure the millions of Egyptians in the streets don't agree with you.



Of course it is the right of the Egyptian people to decide what want to do in their country. I fully understand and respect that.

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## Audio

Argus Panoptes said:


> The legitimacy of an elected head of government lasts the duration of the entire term unless he/she chooses to resign or call elections. But only in a civilized democracy.



Here is the legitimacy you are wishing for so badly:



> Egyptian police refuse to protect Coptic Christians during gun and machete attack on mourners at cathedral



Read more: Egyptian police refuse to protect Coptic Christians during gun and machete attack on mourners at cathedral | Mail Online 

This isn't a rant for Christians, i couldn't care less, it's just to prove you wrong.

Oh, here's a gem from the article:



> The only arrests that were made afterwards were of four Copts, who were already outraged over a three-day attack that began April 4 attack in Khosous.



Another :



> CAIRO &#8212; Police officers firing tear gas joined with a rock-throwing crowd fighting a group of Christian mourners Sunday in a battle that escalated into an attack on Egypt&#8217;s main Coptic Christian Cathedral that lasted for hours.



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/world/middleeast/in-egypt-attack-on-christians-comes-after-a-pledge.html?_r=0

Legitimacy? Democracy doesn't mean that after you get elected you get to do ethnic cleansing.

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## flamer84

What is the army waiting? Why aren't they going in and cause Morsi "an unfortunate accident" ?


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## Argus Panoptes

Audio said:


> Here is the legitimacy you are wishing for so badly:
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: Egyptian police refuse to protect Coptic Christians during gun and machete attack on mourners at cathedral | Mail Online
> 
> This isn't a rant for Christians, i couldn't care less, it's just to prove you wrong.



I clearly said "but ONLY in a civilized democracy". Please understand its meaning first.


----------



## iranigirl2

*Marines poised for mission in Egypt*


A contingent of the Marines' new fast reaction force for rescue missions in Africa has been moved to Sigonella, Italy, for possible action in Egypt.

"This is certainly one of the possibilities of the (task force)," Marine Capt. Eric Flanagan, a spokesman based at the Pentagon, said in an email. "The unit is always on standby with a short tether."

With Egypt teetering on anarchy, the 500-member Marine unit could be called on to swoop in and help secure the U.S. Embassy in Cairo.

The Egyptian military has given President Mohammed Morsi an ulitmatum: yield to demands from millions of protesters or step aside. It's unclear what Morsi, Egypt's first democratically elected president, would have to do to satisfy the demands of protesters or the military. His Islamist Muslim Brotherhood movement has become increasingly unpopular in Egypt as security and the economy decay there.

The Special Purpose Marine Air-Ground Task Force for Crisis Response was formed after the attack on the U.S. embassy and a CIA outpost in Benghazi, Libya, on Sept. 11, 2012. Four Americans were killed in that attack, including the ambassador.



Marines poised for mission in Egypt


----------



## forcetrip

All the Muslim brotherhood guys went to work in Syria and this is what happens when you do haven't properly shariah'd your own country.. Good lessons all around.


----------



## Gold1010

Coup is underway, APCs to pro Morsi rally.


----------



## iranigirl2

*El Baradei* 

*El Baradei* 

*El Baradei* 

*El Baradei*

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## Frogman

> The legitimacy of an elected head of government lasts the duration of the entire term unless he/she chooses to resign or call elections. But only in a civilized democracy.



In the simplest possible way:-

What is the definition of legitimacy? Legitimacy is lawfulness by virtue of being authorized or in accordance with law. 

Who provides legitimacy? per the (disastrous) Egyptian constitution the source of legitimacy is the people.

How is legitimacy gained? Through free and fair elections in which a candidate is chosen and given the legitimacy to govern.

So, the source of legitimacy is the people and the only thing that can withdraw legitimacy is the people. 

So if 22 million people sign a democratic petition to remove this legitimacy and exercise their constitutional and democratic right to protest and impeach a president then who has the right to say otherwise...........

Democracy is a continuous process not just a ballot in a plastic box.

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## somebozo

Zarvan said:


> Egypt will suffer a lot if he is removed and only Shariah Law can safe Egupt other Syria can end into big trouble



Man please stop this shariah trolling you destroy every thread. Seriously..the world wants more than Shariah..they want jobs, bread, security, etc.

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## Audio

Argus Panoptes said:


> I clearly said "but ONLY in a civilized democracy". Please understand its meaning first.



You would get ousted in a civilized democracy too for doing this.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Imran Khan said:


>



 

Kayani is truly a man of honor


----------



## Zarvan

somebozo said:


> Man please stop this shariah trolling you destroy every thread. Seriously..the world wants more than Shariah..they want jobs, bread, security, etc.



Muslims want shariah and it would come either peacefully or through bloodbath but it would come


----------



## Argus Panoptes

Audio said:


> You would get ousted in a civilized democracy too for doing this.



Only by a Constitutional process, not by the orders of a General.


----------



## Solomon2

Zarvan said:


> Muslims want shariah and it would come either peacefully or through bloodbath but it would come


Who elected _you_ to speak for a billion Muslims?

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## Jihad_

somebozo said:


> Man please stop this shariah trolling you destroy every thread. Seriously..the world wants more than Shariah..they want jobs, bread, security, etc.



Islam has the solutions.


----------



## Sedqal

Frogman said:


> In the simplest possible way:-
> 
> What is the definition of legitimacy? Legitimacy is lawfulness by virtue of being authorized or in accordance with law.
> 
> Who provides legitimacy? per the (disastrous) Egyptian constitution the source of legitimacy is the people.
> 
> How is legitimacy gained? Through free and fair elections in which a candidate is chosen and given the legitimacy to govern.
> 
> So, the source of legitimacy is the people and the only thing that can withdraw legitimacy is the people.
> 
> So if 22 million people sign a democratic petition to remove this legitimacy and exercise their constitutional and democratic right to protest and impeach a president then who has the right to say otherwise...........
> 
> Democracy is a continuous process not just a ballot in a plastic box.



And what will happen once MB starts the same tactics as soon as a new Govt is sworn in? Legitimacy also has time stipulation of tenure (I don't know about the Egyption constitution).


----------



## JayAtl

BDforever said:


> nah local mullah hardly care about this issue, anyway a 3rd world country fellow who went to another country and then trying to down another 3rd world country, OOOoooppps smarty pant



Don't hate me because you are stuck in a retarded 3rd world dump.


----------



## Gold1010

Barbed wire and barriers are being put around pro Morsi rally's and allegedly Morsis staying place

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## flamer84

Sedqal said:


> And what will happen once MB starts the same tactics as soon as a new Govt is sworn in? Legitimacy also has time stipulation of tenure (I don't know about the Egyption constitution).



They are classified as terrorist trying to take down the legitimate govern and are crushed by army

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## omkar



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## Audio

*News on Twatter that Morsi is no longer in power and is holed up at the defense ministry where army is erecting barriers.*

No link.



Argus Panoptes said:


> Only by a Constitutional process, not by the orders of a General.



General listened to the people he is supposed to protect. Constitution in Egypt was a sham.


----------



## Jihad_

iranigirl2 said:


> *El Baradei*
> 
> *El Baradei*
> 
> *El Baradei*
> 
> *El Baradei*


----------



## Audio

Found this on Twatter too, one for the conspiracy theorists:


----------



## Sedqal

Audio said:


> *News on Twatter that Morsi is no longer in power and is holed up at the defense ministry where army is erecting barriers.*
> 
> No link.
> 
> General listened to the people he is supposed to protect. Constitution in Egypt was a sham.



Give me a break like you would encourage general listening to public in any European country.


----------



## Hussein

Jihad_ said:


>


you know what was his job before, before posting this picture ?
lol

little help for you : IAEA


----------



## somebozo

Zarvan said:


> Muslims want shariah and it would come either peacefully or through bloodbath but it would come



Yep, two shariah trolls one in Turkey and second in Egypt are counting hours of their final disgraceful exit. Soo much for the shariah lovers....and beside..what shariah is actually? Obsolete Roman penal code..!



Jihad_ said:


> Islam has the solutions.



History says otherwise..!



Solomon2 said:


> Who elected _you_ to speak for a billion Muslims?



He is self professed God's viceroy on earth.. All madrassah PhD suffer from this syndrome due to total loss of individual identity under years of indoctrination and brain washing.

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## Argus Panoptes

Audio said:


> *News on Twatter that Morsi is no longer in power and is holed up at the defense ministry where army is erecting barriers.*
> 
> No link.
> 
> 
> 
> General listened to the people he is supposed to protect. *Constitution in Egypt was a sham.*



Pity the nation that has a sham Constitution for it will cry tears of blood often till it dies.

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## F.O.X

Argus Panoptes said:


> The real irony is that the people of Egypt voted in Morsi, and now are fed up of him so quickly. Where is the patience to last out the full term?



welcome to Pakistani Politics .. Egypt is at the place where we were 15 years ago .

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## BDforever

JayAtl said:


> Don't hate me because you are stuck in a retarded 3rd world dump.



nah, i feel sorry for you who thinks all live in poor condition and stuck in 3rd world to make himself feel better  pity you


----------



## flamer84

Sedqal said:


> Give me a break like you would encourage general listening to public in any European country.



We don't have loonies governing by christian law or ones trying to assume power only in their hands in Europe.No cause...no problem.

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## Audio



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## Mitro

You are right there is no islamic world thanks to Zionist SOB = Salafi ,wahabi,kharaji.
As a proud indian in which our constitution make no difference between its people and gives us full freedom to practice ones religion.and not like your country ruled by British Agent .



BLACKEAGLE said:


> Are you for real man?
> 
> 
> 
> There is no "Islamic world", your country is called India, a secular country, just stick to it.

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## Hussein

http://cairoscene.com/ViewArticle.aspx?AId=1236




some people have fun lol


> The MB and the Morsi went to sea
> In a beautiful pea-green boat,
> They took some shar3eya, and PLENTY of money,
> Wrapped up in a 5 LE note.
> The MB looked up to the stars above,
> And sang to a small guitar,
> "O lovely Morsi! O Morsi, my love,
> What a beautiful Morsi you are,
> You are,
> You are!
> What a beautiful Morsi you are!"
> 
> Morsi said to the MB, "You elegant party!
> How charming the shar3eya you sing!
> O let us stay in power, at this very late hour,
> But what shall we do for the ring?"
> They ruled away, for a year to the day,
> In the land where the Pyramids lay
> But there in a square, millions would dare
> To come out and start a millioneya,
> The Morsi did sigh, after mistakes and lies:
> Does no one care for shar3eya?
> Shar3eya?
> Shar3eya?
> Does no one care for shar3eya?


----------



## K-Xeroid

After this another experience I can conclude that the modern Muslim nations were mostly always damaged by their own Armies and whoever Rebel against their tyranny are being declared as terrorist . That is a Fcking fact that we are facing today . They mostly lost against when it comes to defending their territories from foreign forces , But they are imposed like a snake on us ,bunch of Generals having all sort of strength just to impose Coup .

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## Audio

Argus Panoptes said:


> Pity the nation that has a sham Constitution for it will cry tears of blood often till it dies.



You should have written this when it was voted for with some 20% of the electorate.


----------



## iranigirl2

*For Obama, tricky diplomatic geometry in democratic Egypt*



With Egypt and its democratic experiment at a tipping point, U.S. President Barack Obama finds himself trying to nudge the most populous Arab country's bitterly divided antagonists toward compromise but finds his influence limited.

Where Obama and his predecessors once dealt with a single all-powerful figure - ousted strongman President Hosni Mubarak - the White House is now gingerly trying to persuade unpopular, but democratically elected, President Mohamed Mursi and Egypt's military to strike a political deal, all without alienating millions of Egyptians protesting in the streets.

Egypt's size and leading position in the Arab world mean its political course will be felt throughout the region, where the United States is already struggling to stem Islamist militants and sectarian strife.

But Obama has not forged close ties to Mursi, and has been criticized for what is widely seen as his standoffish approach to Egypt's attempts to solidify its democracy.

Now that Egypt looks to be on the brink of chaos, an immediate challenge for Washington is how to sway the country's armed forces, which have given Mursi until Wednesday to agree on power-sharing with other political forces, warning it would set out its own roadmap for the country's future if he did not.

A military coup against Mursi and his crumbling government would seriously undermine Obama's promotion of democracy in the Middle East and could lead to a cutoff in U.S. military aid to Egypt.

The United States relied heavily on its ties with Egypt's top military officers, forged through decades of joint training, military schooling in the United States and U.S. military aid, to guide the country to free elections when protesters poured into Cairo's Tahrir Square in early 2011 demanding Mubarak's ouster.

The armed forces eventually sided with the protesters, hastening Mubarak's downfall. The difference this time is that Mursi was democratically elected in a process backed by Washington.

U.S. influence with the Egyptian military is greatest on regional security matters, such as Egypt's peace treaty with Israel.

Underlying the importance for Washington of keeping ties to Egypt's military, Secretary of State John Kerry in May quietly approved $1.3 billion in military assistance, despite the country's failure to meet democracy standards set by the U.S. Congress.

To do so, Kerry waived a U.S. legal requirement that he certify the Egyptian government "is supporting the transition to civilian government, including holding free and fair elections, implementing policies to protect freedom of expression, association and religion, and due process of law."

"Nobody should be under the illusion that simply because we give $1.3 billion of weapons and training support to the Egyptian military that we can control them in any way when it comes to internal politics and the internal security situation," said Brian Katulis at the Center for American Progress, a Washington-based think tank.

Army General Martin Dempsey, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, spoke by telephone this week with Egypt's army chief of staff, Lieutenant General Sedki Sobhi, a U.S. defense official said.

Details of that conversation were not released, and it is unclear whether Dempsey or other top U.S. officials have explicitly warned the Egyptian military against mounting a coup.

Obama, Kerry and other U.S. leaders have not publicly criticized the army's ultimatum.

Michele Dunne, a former State Department official who served in Egypt and Israel and is now at the Atlantic Council think tank, said the key question is whether the military sweeps Mursi and his government aside entirely and steps in to rule, or stops short of that - perhaps by appointing a civilian figurehead.

The U.S.-Egypt military relationship was tested when the army assumed power after Mubarak's fall, and "if the military takes control, it's going to be tested again," she said.

OBAMA: LISTEN TO DEMONSTRATORS

The Obama White House has not been enamored with Mursi, a leader of the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood whom it sees as having failed to form an inclusive, effective government. Obama has not hosted Mursi at the White House, and officials canceled a visit by the Egyptian leader last year after a video from 2010 surfaced in which Morsi described Israelis as "descendants of apes and pigs."

Obama, wrapping up an Africa tour, called Mursi on Tuesday, according to the White House. "Democracy is about ... ensuring that the voices of all Egyptians are heard and represented by their government, including the many Egyptians demonstrating throughout the country," a White House statement said. Obama told Mursi that "the current crisis can only be resolved through a political process."

But amid reports of violence, Mursi showed little sign of compromise, calling on the military to withdraw its ultimatum and saying he would not be dictated to.

For Washington, communicating with the Mursi government is becoming more problematic.

State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki announced Tuesday that Kerry had called Egyptian Foreign Minister Mohamed Kamel Amr, only to be reminded by reporters that Amr had reportedly tendered his resignation - one of a half-dozen or so senior Mursi aides to resign in recent days.

It was unclear whether Amr was still in his position when Kerry spoke with him, giving a sense in Washington that the Mursi government is unraveling.

DOUBT ABOUT U.S. DEMOCRATIC COMMITMENT

As with the civil war in Syria, Obama has been criticized for what many analysts say is a largely hands-off approach toward post-Mubarak Egypt.

Obama administration officials counter that Washington has limited influence on Arab societies struggling to remake themselves, and too overt a U.S. intervention would backfire.

In the latest crisis, the United States, seen for decades in the Arab world as a supporter of pro-Western autocrats, has insisted it is not playing favorites.

That has not stopped some among the millions of protesters on Egypt's city streets from criticizing what they see as Washington's backing for Mursi. Photos insulting U.S. Ambassador to Egypt Anne Patterson have appeared in the crowds.

Obama told Mursi in their phone conversation "that the United States is committed to the democratic process in Egypt and does not support any single party or group," the White House said.

Dunne said popular resentment at the United States can be blamed in part on policies toward Egypt and other fragile Arab democracies that she labeled "unimaginative at best."

"We could have done so much more to encourage the transition in Egypt," she said. "We really have stayed out, stayed on the sidelines, waiting to see what happened."


For Obama, tricky diplomatic geometry in democratic Egypt | Reuters


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## BLACKEAGLE

Czar786 said:


> You are right there is no islamic world thanks to Zionist SOB = Salafi ,wahabi,kharaji.
> As a proud indian in which our constitution make no difference between its people and gives us full freedom to practice ones religion.and not like your country ruled by British Agent .



Yes, Hindu, enjoy being in India.

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## Gandhi G in da house

I have heard the military is secular .

Fabulous news 

Mashallah

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## Gold1010

I should be sleeping.


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## K-Xeroid

F.O.X said:


> welcome to Pakistani Politics .. Egypt is at the place where we were 15 years ago .


Indeed after so much Sacrifices Civilian government and their supporters are still insecure from our general's greed. They always interfere in almost all matters like a boss of the state.


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## flamer84

Gold1010 said:


> I should be sleeping.



You can't sleep when history is beeing written!

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## Audio

Sedqal said:


> Give me a break like you would encourage general listening to public in any European country.



If situation was getting out of hand like it is in Egypt for the past year(!), yes, i believe i would. It's hard to ignore millions of protestors.


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## Sedqal

K-Xeroid said:


> After this another experience I can conclude that the modern Muslim nations were mostly always damaged by their own Armies and whoever Rebel against their tyranny are being declared as terrorist . That is a Fcking fact that we are facing today . They mostly lost against when it comes to defending their territories from foreign forces , But they are imposed like a snake on us ,bunch of Generals having all sort of strength just to impose Coup .



Spot on. Almost every Muslim democracy has been mired in the same BS, endless trolling by divine protectors of Secularism, Nation or Islam (depending on the context).

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## Mitro

Bye hypocrite hide your self in muslim community its good for you 
And yes i am a Hindu because i live in Hindustan  


BLACKEAGLE said:


> Yes, Hindu, enjoy being in India.


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## Gold1010

flamer84 said:


> You can't sleep when history is beeing written!



]

It's not fair their time sucks


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## Jihad_

Hussein said:


> you know what was his job before, before posting this picture ?
> lol
> 
> little help for you : IAEA



Really?


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## Gold1010

Morsi is likely now under house arrest


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## Audio

Seems the philosophical debates or nuggets of wisdom from Malaysia and Pakistan aren't needed anymore.


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## JayAtl

BDforever said:


> nah, i feel sorry for you who thinks all live in poor condition and stuck in 3rd world to make himself feel better  pity you



less emoticons and less gibberish , would help you communicate better


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## BLACKEAGLE

Czar786 said:


> Bye hypocrite hide your self in muslim community its good for you
> And yes i am a Hindu because i live in Hindustan



Trust me, nobody here would ever think of brothering a Hindu, never. We are brothers in humanity though...


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## Argus Panoptes

Audio said:


> You should have written this when it was voted for with some 20% of the electorate.



That was for the Egyptian people to decide and accept or reject - at that time.


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## flamer84

Audio said:


> If situation was getting out of hand like it is in Egypt for the past year(!), yes, i believe i would. It's hard to ignore millions of protestors.



No politician in Europe will stay in power if 20% of the country's population is in the streets against him,look at Bulgaria ,he left after a week of protests with no more than 150.000-200.000 people rallied.


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## omkar

@TarekFatah: Morsi's supporters on their knees in special extended evening prayer pleading to Allah for divine intervention to save their leader.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Victory of secularism over Islamism in Egypt 

But wait , if Egypt's army chief's name is Al-Sissi 

Imagine this . Meet the president of Egypt - Mr. Sissi

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## Hussein

Jihad_ said:


> Really?


Mohamed ElBaradei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> He was the Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), an intergovernmental organization under the auspices of the United Nations, from 1997 to 2009


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## Audio

Argus Panoptes said:


> That was for the Egyptian people to decide and accept or reject - at that time.



Well, they sure rejected it now.


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## Frogman

K-Xeroid said:


> Indeed after so much Sacrifices Civilian government and their supporters are still insecure from our general's greed. They always interfere in almost all matters like a boss of the state.


 I would advise you to refer to the first communique released by the Armed forces released two days ago which clearly states their intentions.


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## K-Xeroid

Sedqal said:


> Spot on. Almost every Muslim democracy has been mired in the same BS, endless trolling by divine protectors of Secularism, Nation or Islam (depending on the context).


Their is only one word coming in my Mouth . "Yeh Saray Haram ke Pillay hn". They have ruled 20 to 40 years and achieved nothing, We always have a new beginning after each and every such experience and when we civilians defeating after all sort Dictatorship , Terrorism and elects our government , then such oppositions always support Armies to Impose Martial law. What the fcuk is happening all around , Its seriously makes me to think that do we Muslim nations really need Armies or such institutions which hold its on Executive having strength to question civilian executive?



Frogman said:


> I would advise you to refer to the first communique released by the Armed forces released two days ago which clearly states their intentions.


Intentions? Intentions can only known by incidents , that statement was a clear checkmate.


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## Argus Panoptes

Audio said:


> Well, they sure rejected it now.



The consequences of such a rejection, good and bad, will follow for them too.


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## Audio

flamer84 said:


> No politician in Europe will stay in power if 20% of the country's population is in the streets against him,look at Bulgaria ,he left after a week of protests with no more than 150.000-200.000 people rallied.



Sometimes i think people here think demonstrations are for police training and not an expression of dissatisfaction with the way how things are going.

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## BDforever

JayAtl said:


> less emoticons and less gibberish , would help you communicate better



thanks to your good communication skill, you saved the day


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## Audio

Argus Panoptes said:


> The consequences of such a rejection, good and bad, will follow for them too.



Consequences of adopting the sham constitution are not following them, they've been with them for the past year, discrimination, water, food, fuel, power shortages, clientelism of MB appointing it's own functionaries everywhere....


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## Gold1010

Nanana nanana hey hey hey goodbye

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## Argus Panoptes

Audio said:


> Consequences of adopting the sham constitution are not following them, they've been with them for the past year, discrimination, water, fuel, power shortages, clientelism of MB appointing it's own functionaries everywhere....



Yes, but how can you not consider the last 40 years in Egypt's history as the foundation for the events over the last couple of years?


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## flamer84

Twitter :MB fatwa issuing body:ousting Morsi is against islam ....lol

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## Frogman

> Intentions? Intentions can only known by incidents , that statement was a clear checkmate.


 The statement clearly stated that the Egyptian military will not seek power or get involved in the political process and that the transitional phase will be lead by a civilian council. The military as well as the protesters have learned from the experiences of 2011 which destroyed the image of the military in many Egyptians eyes. The opposition have provided a clear day after plan, if not met or agreement on a other plan doesn't happen the protesters will stay put.

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## somebozo

Zarvan said:


> Egypt army is proving itself to be bunch off retards and your comments are enough to show why something is happening to a certain community and it would be Egyptian army responsible for civil war



The real bunch of retards in Egypt aka the Islamist are on the verge of losing their elected seat of clownship!


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## Jihad_

Hussein said:


> Mohamed ElBaradei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Yeah, offcourse.


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## Pfpilot

The military will always be one of the greatest hurdles for the establishment and growth of democracy. It is irrelevant if the nations are Muslim or Middle Eastern, the dominance of the military and its role in destroying the nation it is sworn to protect is the overarching storyline through out world history. A government chosen by the people has no place for the ambitions of military men. It is then natural to expect an entity, that would only see its influence diminish under a real democracy, fight tooth and nail against any substantive change. 

The Egyptian military exists as an extension of a bygone era. A present entity taking advantage of the respect its predecessors earned in bloody conflicts of the past. Egyptian problems are far more local in nature today. Domestic issues that require local law enforcement and wider infrastructural development, not soldiers in tanks. Were democracy to become entrenched within the Egyptian state, the military would find itself increasingly sidetracked by the needs of the people. Of course, as far as the military is concerned, how dare the needs of the Egyptian people take precedence over the military? There in lies the problem faced by most nations with a rich military tradition. When threatened, the military begins to take advantage of that reservoir of sympathy and respect and does so while reaching for its own goals, at the expense of the people.

For democracy to flourish, the military power has to be kept in check. Of course, a military which exists to protect its people will enjoy greater support than an elected leader who has to make hard decisions with limited resources. For that matter, if I stood on the sidelines and criticized Egyptian leadership, I would find my popularity increase too. The point is, it will take many years to fix the mess Egypt finds itself in and these problems will not disappear without pain and sacrifice. Concurrently the nation will need all that time to gain a grasp of what democracy means. A chance to learn what they want from their leaders and what qualifies one to be a leader. There will be bad leaders, terrible maybe, but the beauty of true democracy is that those leaders will never come into power again and stand as a vivid example of the type of figure the Egyptians will never elect again. For all this to happen, the military cannot be allowed to repeatedly take control by playing on the sympathy of the Egyptian people. A military dictator is forever, civilian incompetence is temporary. It is up to the Egyptians to decide what they prefer.

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## Audio

Argus Panoptes said:


> Yes, but how can you not consider the last 40 years in Egypt's history as the foundation for the events over the last couple of years?



High count of protestors is ~ 30 million, average count is ~ 17 million and you are asking for philosophical debate???????? You're not serious.


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## T-123456

Luffy 500 said:


> MB is democratically elected and hence can not be ousted by such mobs. It won't be good for egypt. The real problem in the muslim world are seculars. They can't stand anything except for their slave mentality secular ideology. Turkey's case is the same. MB should now try to consolidate power and show some spine in leadership if it wants to save egypt from secular intolerant tyrants, tyrants that have ruined egypt throughout the 20th century. If they lack leadership skills to fend off against such obstacles then they don't deserve power no matter how much democratic it is.


You should try to live in the real world instead of allways living in your dreamworld.
First you should know what democracy means,those in power should not try to change the country in undemocratic ruling.
As you can see this is what happens if you try.
Btw,BYE BYE MORSI.


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## Anees

Laser lights on the wall of a government building spell out a message for President Morsi at Tahrir Square on July 2. Khaled Desouki, AFP/Getty Images

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## Argus Panoptes

Audio said:


> High count of protestors is ~ 30 million, average count is ~ 17 million and you are asking for philosophical debate???????? You're not serious.



Actually I am very serious. But that is okay, since there is no rush to decide. Let the current events play out as they will, and then such matters can be sorted out if anyone is so inclined, still.


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## iranigirl2

flamer84 said:


> Twitter :MB fatwa issuing body:ousting Morsi is against islam ....lol



can you give us the link to this Twitter account.


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## ranjeet

Well i don't have much idea about what this fuss is all about ... all i wish for is that an average Egyptian must get to live a dignified and equal life.


----------



## omkar

Scenes from Tahrir sq as we speak.


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## Anees

Egyptians react to a television broadcast from the military at a coffee shop near Tahrir Square. Amr Nabil, A


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## Argus Panoptes

Pfpilot said:


> The military will always be one of the greatest hurdles for the establishment and growth of democracy. It is irrelevant if the nations are Muslim or Middle Eastern, the dominance of the military and its role in destroying the nation it is sworn to protect is the overarching storyline through out world history. A government chosen by the people has no place for the ambitions of military men. It is then natural to expect an entity, that would only see its influence diminish under a real democracy, fight tooth and nail against any substantive change.
> 
> The Egyptian military exists as an extension of a bygone era. A present entity taking advantage of the respect its predecessors earned in bloody conflicts of the past. Egyptian problems are far more local in nature today. Domestic issues that require local law enforcement and wider infrastructural development, not soldiers in tanks. Were democracy to become entrenched within the Egyptian state, the military would find itself increasingly sidetracked by the needs of the people. Of course, as far as the military is concerned, how dare the needs of the Egyptian people take precedence over the military? There in lies the problem faced by most nations with a rich military tradition. When threatened, the military begins to take advantage of that reservoir of sympathy and respect and does so while reaching for its own goals, at the expense of the people.
> 
> For democracy to flourish, the military power has to be kept in check. Of course, a military which exists to protect its people will enjoy greater support than an elected leader who has to make hard decisions with limited resources. For that matter, if I stood on the sidelines and criticized Egyptian leadership, I would find my popularity increase too. The point is, it will take many years to fix the mess Egypt finds itself in and these problems will not disappear without pain and sacrifice. Concurrently the nation will need all that time to gain a grasp of what democracy means. A chance to learn what they want from their leaders and what qualifies one to be a leader. There will be bad leaders, terrible maybe, but the beauty of true democracy is that those leaders will never come into power again and stand as a vivid example of the type of figure the Egyptians will never elect again. For all this to happen, the military cannot be allowed to repeatedly take control by playing on the sympathy of the Egyptian people. A military dictator is forever, civilian incompetence is temporary. It is up to the Egyptians to decide what they prefer.


 @Pfpilot Sir, what makes me really sad is the fact that you could replace Egypt with Pakistan in your post above, and it would really hit home, very hard.


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## flamer84

iranigirl2 said:


> can you give us the link to this Twitter account.



https://twitter.com/misr25tv/status/352477929726418945

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## Anees

Women celebrate in Cairo. Amr Nabil, AP

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## Sedqal

Pfpilot said:


> The military will always be one of the greatest hurdles for the establishment and growth of democracy. It is irrelevant if the nations are Muslim or Middle Eastern, the dominance of the military and its role in destroying the nation it is sworn to protect is the overarching storyline through out world history. A government chosen by the people has no place for the ambitions of military men. It is then natural to expect an entity, that would only see its influence diminish under a real democracy, fight tooth and nail against any substantive change.
> 
> The Egyptian military exists as an extension of a bygone era. A present entity taking advantage of the respect its predecessors earned in bloody conflicts of the past. Egyptian problems are far more local in nature today. Domestic issues that require local law enforcement and wider infrastructural development, not soldiers in tanks. Were democracy to become entrenched within the Egyptian state, the military would find itself increasingly sidetracked by the needs of the people. Of course, as far as the military is concerned, how dare the needs of the Egyptian people take precedence over the military? There in lies the problem faced by most nations with a rich military tradition. When threatened, the military begins to take advantage of that reservoir of sympathy and respect and does so while reaching for its own goals, at the expense of the people.
> 
> For democracy to flourish, the military power has to be kept in check. Of course, a military which exists to protect its people will enjoy greater support than an elected leader who has to make hard decisions with limited resources. For that matter, if I stood on the sidelines and criticized Egyptian leadership, I would find my popularity increase too. The point is, it will take many years to fix the mess Egypt finds itself in and these problems will not disappear without pain and sacrifice. Concurrently the nation will need all that time to gain a grasp of what democracy means. A chance to learn what they want from their leaders and what qualifies one to be a leader. There will be bad leaders, terrible maybe, but the beauty of true democracy is that those leaders will never come into power again and stand as a vivid example of the type of figure the Egyptians will never elect again. For all this to happen, the military cannot be allowed to repeatedly take control by playing on the sympathy of the Egyptian people. A military dictator is forever, civilian incompetence is temporary. It is up to the Egyptians to decide what they prefer.



Correct so far but this phenomenon is far more common in Muslim countries. I wonder what signals it will send to Turkey?


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## Anees

A protester shouts slogans against Morsi. Amr Nabil, AP


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## Cyberian

Sounds like America wants to install another puppet in Egypt for the next 40 years.


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## livingdead

ranjeet said:


> Well i don't have much idea about what this fuss is all about ... all i wish for is that an average Egyptian must get to live a dignified and equal life.


Egyptians should seek long term solution through democracy, and not rejoice in these events (if opponents of morsi). He should have been allowed to finish his term.

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## Anees

Protesters ransack and burn the Muslim Brotherhood headquarters in Cairo. Demonstrators stormed the headquarters of President Mohammed Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood group as thousands of protesters prepared for a second day of mass rallies aimed at forcing the Islamist leader from power. Khalil Hamra, A






Protesters ransack the Muslim Brotherhood headquarters. Khalil Hamra, AP

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## Audio

aneesdani said:


> Protesters ransack the Muslim Brotherhood headquarters. Khalil Hamra, AP



Free AC unit. MB's social welfare programme finally kicking in.

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## flamer84

Audio said:


> Free AC unit. MB's social welfare programme finally kicking in.



Weren't AC'S haram for women according to some cleric?)


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## Anees

A protester chants slogans against Morsi during a rally at Tahrir Square. Manu Brabo, AP






Opponents of the president protest. Khalil Hamra, AP












A man takes a photo under an anti-government banner depicting Morsi in Cairo. The words on the banner read, "The end of the reign of terror." Khalil Hamra, AP

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## Gandhi G in da house

What happened ? What turned the Egyptians against Morsi/ MB ?


----------



## Anees

Opponents of Morsi chant slogans as the Muslim Brotherhood headquarters burns in Alexandria, Egypt. Heba Khamis, AP






An opposition protester defends himself with a chair and knife during a battle with supporters of President Mohammed Morsi in Damietta. Hamada Elrasam, AP


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## somebozo

aneesdani said:


> A protester shouts slogans against Morsi. Amr Nabil, AP



He cap says Ikwan Kaziboon means Ikhwan are Liars..ha ha...so much for shariah trolls!

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## Cyberian

Are these anti-Government protesters even Muslim or non-Muslim stooges?


----------



## Audio

flamer84 said:


> Weren't AC'S haram for women according to some cleric?)



Yea....



> This fatwa was issued on Twitter by self-professed Salafist-Wahhabist cleric Abdul Ala. His fatwa reads: &#8220;Turning on the cooler ventilator is prohibited for women in the absence of their husbands [because] the woman&#8217;s act is very dangerous, and may bring about immorality in the society. When she turns the cooler on, someone may notice her presence [in the] home, and this might bring about immorality&#8221;.



10 characters

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## flamer84

SUPARCO said:


> Are these anti-Government protesters even Muslim or non-Muslim stooges?



What's important is that they are *egyptians*

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## somebozo

RuheTag said:


> Egyptian army takes over state TV as military, opposition heads meet
> 
> Egypt braces for showdown: Army vehicles surround state TV building
> 
> I hope Pakistani Generals learn something from this.
> 
> Coups are back..
> 
> Lets prepare another plane for Mian Saheb.



This time to be shot mid-air in suspicious SAM attack and not to land safely in Jeddah.


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## Sedqal

somebozo said:


> *This time to be shot mid-air* in suspicious SAM attack and not to land safely in Jeddah.


A replay of Zia!?

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## somebozo

@BLACKEAGLE you are very confusing man..sometimes you side with Islamist trolls and sometimes you cherish their defeat. Islamists good in Syria, Bad in Egypt and Jordan...????



Jihad_ said:


> I voted for President Morsi, but I regret it.
> I wish he'd implement the Islamic project - as he promised - and Sharia law, that's why we voted for him.



These people were just fooled by the falsified glory of Islam..not they are getting the bitter taste.

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## Frogman

Pfpilot said:


> The military will always be one of the greatest hurdles for the establishment and growth of democracy. It is irrelevant if the nations are Muslim or Middle Eastern, the dominance of the military and its role in destroying the nation it is sworn to protect is the overarching storyline through out world history. A government chosen by the people has no place for the ambitions of military men. It is then natural to expect an entity, that would only see its influence diminish under a real democracy, fight tooth and nail against any substantive change.
> 
> The Egyptian military exists as an extension of a bygone era. A present entity taking advantage of the respect its predecessors earned in bloody conflicts of the past. Egyptian problems are far more local in nature today. Domestic issues that require local law enforcement and wider infrastructural development, not soldiers in tanks. Were democracy to become entrenched within the Egyptian state, the military would find itself increasingly sidetracked by the needs of the people. Of course, as far as the military is concerned, how dare the needs of the Egyptian people take precedence over the military? There in lies the problem faced by most nations with a rich military tradition. When threatened, the military begins to take advantage of that reservoir of sympathy and respect and does so while reaching for its own goals, at the expense of the people.
> 
> For democracy to flourish, the military power has to be kept in check. Of course, a military which exists to protect its people will enjoy greater support than an elected leader who has to make hard decisions with limited resources. For that matter, if I stood on the sidelines and criticized Egyptian leadership, I would find my popularity increase too. The point is, it will take many years to fix the mess Egypt finds itself in and these problems will not disappear without pain and sacrifice. Concurrently the nation will need all that time to gain a grasp of what democracy means. A chance to learn what they want from their leaders and what qualifies one to be a leader. There will be bad leaders, terrible maybe, but the beauty of true democracy is that those leaders will never come into power again and stand as a vivid example of the type of figure the Egyptians will never elect again. For all this to happen, the military cannot be allowed to repeatedly take control by playing on the sympathy of the Egyptian people. A military dictator is forever, civilian incompetence is temporary. It is up to the Egyptians to decide what they prefer.



I agree with the overall message, however, as it stands the Egyptian military still isn't under civilian oversight or control. Its budget is still confidential and so as it stands it would loose this if a truly democratic regime is built on the foundation of a transitional phase which the military will not be a part of according to their own communique (except for a council tasked with the defence of Egypts national security). The Egyptian military has stated time and time again that it will not seek power, so, the question is what was threatening the military under the phony Islamist regime?


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## Solomon2

nick_indian said:


> What happened ? What turned the Egyptians against Morsi/ MB ?










Written by : Ali Ibrahim
on : Tuesday, 2 Jul, 2013

Opinion: A moment of change in Egypt

Over the last two weeks, ordinary people and political elites, whether inside or outside Egypt, have wondered where the country is heading. However, the answer to this question remains ambiguous. The ever&#8211;changing nature of events on the ground ensures that nobody knows for certain. This has been the case since January 25, 2011. Nobody, including influential international powers, expected protests would be that massive or that the former regime would fall that easily. Political events continued to turn expectations, analyses and political predictions upside down.

The Egyptian middle class who ignited the spark of January 25 revolution returned to the streets after exactly one year after the country&#8217;s first elected president came to office. *It is no secret that during this year the Muslim Brotherhood suffered a severe drop in popularity.* Even those who call themselves &#8220;lemon squeezers&#8221; abandoned the Brotherhood. &#8220;Lemon squeezers&#8221; is an Egyptian expression meaning those who elected the Brotherhood&#8217;s presidential candidate not out of their liking for the Islamist organization or the ideology of its candidate, but rather out of dislike of the other candidates.

*The small difference in votes between the two candidates who competed in the run-offs is a sign of the current state of polarization and division of Egyptian society. Over the last year, little has been done, particularly by the ruling authority&#8212;which is said to be represented by the Brotherhood&#8217;s executive office (known as the Guidance office)&#8212;to create a climate of agreement and public approval that would facilitate the transitional period.

Recently, the growing tension reached its breaking point, represented by a state of deadlock between the two camps which are unable to find a middle ground.* Each camp wants to prove that it is more popular and that its supporters are more willing to remain for a long time in public squares; both camps seek to attract Egyptians sitting on the sidelines who prefer to call themselves the &#8220;couch party.&#8221;

*Among the issues that have recently become a source of worry for those Egyptians who prefer to keep away from demonstrations are the problems affecting the economy and public services and the attacks against the judiciary. This is not to mention the errors committed in handling the country&#8217;s foreign policy and the deteriorating security situation in the country.* Due to Egypt&#8217;s topography, internal stability has always been vital for maintaining security.

Belittling the size of the opposition or being overconfident of the number of supporters is a fatal mistake on the part of rulers. This is something which has become obvious after seeing the massive crowds marching through Cairo and other provinces in Egypt, and the resignation of four ministers (at time of writing). This is not to mention the several governors who either resigned or could not enter their headquarters. Besides this, *the constant conflict between the regime and the state institutions such as the judiciary led to the atmosphere of confrontation in the country.* 

The military have issued a 48 hour ultimatum (expiring tomorrow) for the presidency to respond to the public&#8217;s needs. In fact, much of the public who previously demanded that the military intervene, approved of the statement that the General Command of the Armed Forces issued. On the other hand, there are the Brotherhood and the other Islamist trends, some of which threatened to resort to force, a thing which we hope all sides will avoid.

Everyone, particularly the rulers, should wisely admit that the transitional period has drawn to a close and that it will yield nothing in the light of the state of polarization. Therefore, the country needs a new road map to address the mistakes committed, such as holding elections before drafting a constitution, and work to include all sides in the country&#8217;s political process.

Besides this, the new road map should avoid compromising the country&#8217;s national identity by focusing on issues that do not concern or appeal to the public such as setting up an Islamic Caliphate. It should be acknowledged that the state institutions form the backbone of the government that should not be meddled with or undermined because such a step would violate the very principle of the state.

It is obvious that the next 48 hours will decisively determine the course of events in Egypt which nobody can predict. However, it is certain that this is a moment of change in the political scene and all sides should act responsibly. This is a moment of change and nobody should belittle the size of the crowds or misinterpret the public approval of the military&#8217;s statement. Besides, the public interest requires that everybody should participate in forming the country&#8217;s political future.



Has anyone else notice that internet connections to Egypt have been iffy for the past six hours or so?

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## somebozo

Pfpilot said:


> The military will always be one of the greatest hurdles for the establishment and growth of democracy. It is irrelevant if the nations are Muslim or Middle Eastern, the dominance of the military and its role in destroying the nation it is sworn to protect is the overarching storyline through out world history. A government chosen by the people has no place for the ambitions of military men. It is then natural to expect an entity, that would only see its influence diminish under a real democracy, fight tooth and nail against any substantive change.
> 
> The Egyptian military exists as an extension of a bygone era. A present entity taking advantage of the respect its predecessors earned in bloody conflicts of the past. Egyptian problems are far more local in nature today. Domestic issues that require local law enforcement and wider infrastructural development, not soldiers in tanks. Were democracy to become entrenched within the Egyptian state, the military would find itself increasingly sidetracked by the needs of the people. Of course, as far as the military is concerned, how dare the needs of the Egyptian people take precedence over the military? There in lies the problem faced by most nations with a rich military tradition. When threatened, the military begins to take advantage of that reservoir of sympathy and respect and does so while reaching for its own goals, at the expense of the people.
> 
> For democracy to flourish, the military power has to be kept in check. Of course, a military which exists to protect its people will enjoy greater support than an elected leader who has to make hard decisions with limited resources. For that matter, if I stood on the sidelines and criticized Egyptian leadership, I would find my popularity increase too. The point is, it will take many years to fix the mess Egypt finds itself in and these problems will not disappear without pain and sacrifice. Concurrently the nation will need all that time to gain a grasp of what democracy means. A chance to learn what they want from their leaders and what qualifies one to be a leader. There will be bad leaders, terrible maybe, but the beauty of true democracy is that those leaders will never come into power again and stand as a vivid example of the type of figure the Egyptians will never elect again. For all this to happen, the military cannot be allowed to repeatedly take control by playing on the sympathy of the Egyptian people. A military dictator is forever, civilian incompetence is temporary. It is up to the Egyptians to decide what they prefer.



Simply, words made of pure gold..99.9999% 24 carot..

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## Frogman

*PEOPLE NEED TO READ THE COMMUNIQUE*

- Everybody on the Egyptian arena and the world at large have witnessed yesterday's protests by the great Egyptian people that were meant to express their opinion in an unprecedented peaceful and civilized way.
- Everybody has seen the movement of the Egyptian people and has heard their voice with the utmost degree of respect and interest. Therefore, it was inevitable that the people receive a response to their movement and call by all parties that must shoulder part of the responsibility in such a critical situation which the homeland is passing through.
- The Armed Forces, as a major party to the equation of the future, and out of their national and historical responsibility for protecting the security and safety of the homeland in these dangerous circumstances, confirm the following:
&#8226; The Armed Forces will never be a party in the circle of politics or rule and will never accept getting out beyond their outlined role in the genuine democratic thinking which is emanating from the people's will.
&#8226; The national security of the State is exposed to great danger in light of the current developments in the country; the matter that lays a responsibility on all parties concerned to act in a way that is commensurate with these dangers.
&#8226; The Armed Forces have anticipated earlier the danger of the current situation and what it implies of the demands of the great Egyptian people. Therefore the Armed Forces have set a one-week time as a grace period for all political powers to reach reconciliation and get out of the current crisis. However, this one week has elapsed without any response or act on the ground. This state of affairs led the great Egyptian people to take to the streets with full determination and complete freedom in that way that dazzled everybody at the local, regional and international levels and won the respect, appreciation and interest of everybody.
&#8226; Wasting more time will not result in but more division and conflict; which we have warned of and we are still warning against.
&#8226; Such honorable people have suffered a lot and found nobody to sympathize with them or care for them; the matter that lays an ethical and psychological burden on the Armed Forces who hold that all should stop doing anything barring taking care of this great people who proved to be ready to do what is deemed impossible if they found somebody to care for them with sincerity and devotion.
- The Armed Forces are reiterating the call for meeting the demands of the people and give all parties concerned 48 hours as a last-ditch chance to shoulder their own responsibility in this historic moment of the nation which will never tolerate or forgive any party that would be negligent in undertaking their responsibility.
- The Armed Forces appeal to all parties concerned that if the demands of the people were not met within these 48 hours the Armed Forces will find themselves obliged, out of their national and historical responsibility and out of respect to the demands of the great Egyptian people, to announce a road map for the future along with measures that will be carried out under the Armed Forces ' supervision with the participation of all the patriotic and sincere trends and spectra, including the young people who have been and are still, the sparking plug of the great revolution, without any exclusion to any party.
- A big salute of appreciation and respect to the men of the Armed Forces who have been and are still undertaking their responsibility towards the great Egyptian people with all determination and pride.

May God Keep Egypt and its people safe and sound;
May God's peace and blessings be upon you.

Rab3a Al3adwiya- Pro Morsi supporters pray while being "protected" by the military.

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## Gandhi G in da house

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Trust me, nobody here would ever think of brothering a Hindu, never. We are brothers in humanity though...



Brothering a Hindu ? 

How do you brother anyone ?


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## Solomon2

> ...measures that will be carried out under the Armed Forces ' supervision with the participation of all the patriotic and sincere trends and spectra -


Who decides the "patriotic and sincere" bit? That's the wedge the military can use to screw the politicians and populace. [fyi: a screw is an inclined plane (wedge) wrapped in circles.]


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## jaunty

nick_indian said:


> I have heard the military is secular .
> 
> Fabulous news
> 
> Mashallah



The whole region is fekked up, don't have high expectations, you don't know what's gonna happen next, I bet nobody saw this coming last year.

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## Frogman

> Who decides the "patriotic and sincere" bit? That's the wedge the military can use to screw the politicians and populace. [fyi: a screw is an inclined plane (wedge) wrapped in circles.]


 The latest meeting has included the National Salvation Front, The Nour party, Tamarod, Alazhar and the Church. The FJP was invited however it refused. So I think its pretty clear. The coming communique will come as a result of this meeting.


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## Gandhi G in da house

jaunty said:


> The whole region is fekked up, don't have high expectations, you don't know what's gonna happen next, I bet nobody saw this coming last year.



Totally agree with that. Yet no harm in enjoying this, at least momentary victory of secularism over Islamism.


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## Solomon2

Frogman said:


> The latest meeting has included the National Salvation Front, The Nour party, Tamarod, Alazhar and the Church. The FJP was invited however it refused. So I think its pretty clear. The coming communique will come as a result of this meeting.


That's how it starts. Once the millions are off the streets the powers-that-be may try to use their wedge to roll back everything that has been gained, declaring parties and people "unpatriotic" right and left, citing the relative peace in the streets as implicit endorsement of tyranny.

I'm not saying that's going to happen; but it's something you have to alert people to and work to prevent, the better to keep the Army (and soon, I hope, the police) on their leash.


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## BLACKEAGLE

nick_indian said:


> Brothering a Hindu ?
> 
> How do you brother anyone ?



I don't even know,  he has some daydreams of being a brother of us living in the same nation under the same ruler who follows his version of Islam. I get to help them out in getting real. We are not brothers and we won't be so. In the name of this imaginary "Islamic" Ummah, they give themselves the liberty to call us names other than Muslims, insult us and even join any enemy propaganda against us.


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## anonymus

hinduguy said:


> Egyptians should seek long term solution through democracy, and not rejoice in these events (if opponents of morsi). He should have been allowed to finish his term.



Hitler also came to power after winning elections!!!!!

He should have been allowed to complete his term.


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## flamer84

Solomon2 said:


> That's how it starts. Once the millions are off the streets the powers-that-be may try to use their wedge to roll back everything that has been gained, declaring parties and people "unpatriotic" right and left, citing the relative peace in the streets as implicit endorsement of tyranny.
> 
> I'm not saying that's going to happen; but it's something you have to alert people to and work to prevent, the better to keep the Army (and soon, I hope, the police) on their leash.



If the army wouldn't seize this oportunity they would have been decapitated later by Morsi just like Erdogan did and Morsi wpuld be unstopable.What's happening now is the best thing for Egypt at the moment,it's up to them to make it work further down the road.

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## Solomon2

If the military tries to impose the same election rules as before - especially the ban on parliamentary candidates if they were in prison at any time after 2004 - this should be opposed. Indeed, it would be best to clear this matter up as quickly as possible. That's more important than banning the FJP or Morsi from further political activity or office, in my opinion.


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## Frogman

> That's how it starts. Once the millions are off the streets the powers-that-be may try to use their wedge to roll back everything that has been gained, declaring parties and people "unpatriotic" right and left, citing the relative peace in the streets as implicit endorsement of tyranny.
> 
> I'm not saying that's going to happen; but it's something you have to alert people to and work to prevent, the better to keep the Army (and soon, I hope, the police) on their leash.



That is what happened after the 25th of Jan 2011. After the revolution the masses simply dispersed and entrusted the military to rule, however, as we know that lead to a deal with the MB and a botched transitional phase. Now, the protesters have a clear plan if not followed or there isn't agreement on another these masses will remain. The military is also wary of repeating the same mistakes of 2011 that tarnished its image.

All we can do is hope that justice prevails for the Egyptian people.


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## Solomon2

Frogman said:


> All we can do is hope that justice prevails for the Egyptian people.


You mustn't think that! You must NOT take the "if Allah is willing" attitude! You have to keep working for success! You have at least four tasks:alert the military that you will be ready for their tricks, drum up support for a democratic framework, craft a particular agenda, and keep your family fed and sheltered. If you give up now and concentrate only on the last, you will return to being a peasant.


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## Cheetah786

I hope and pray to Almighty no one is killed


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## Solomon2

I've waited for this moment for six years now: ever since the Egyptian ambassador to the U.S. told us protesters that when Mubarak fell he would side with the M-B rather than the democrats. That play is now over. I think they're just winging it right now, accumulating stores, keeping their hands on food distribution, hoping to wait out the masses.

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## Frogman

> You mustn't think that! You must NOT take the "if Allah is willing" attitude! You have to keep working for success! You have at least four tasks:alert the military that you will be ready for their tricks, drum up support for a democratic framework, craft a particular agenda, and keep your family fed and sheltered. If you give up now and concentrate only on the last, you will return to being a peasant.


 Do not mistaken talk of hope and prayers to higher powers (if they exist) as a sign of submission or inaction.

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## Solomon2

Frogman said:


> Do not mistaken talk of hope and prayers to higher powers (if they exist) as a sign of submission or inaction.


If there is to be hope, you must make it.


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## kaykay

Assad to Morsi: step down.(Joke of the year..hahaha).
The PJ Tatler » Assad to Morsi: Mind the People&#8217;s Wishes and Step Down!


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## Pakistanisage

Very stupid move on behalf of Egyptian Army. The more than 50% of Egyptians who supported MB will now be pissed as hell.


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## Cyberian

flamer84 said:


> What's important is that they are *egyptians*



Nah, non-Muslims' opinions don't matter in Muslims' affairs.


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## Solomon2

Pakistanisage said:


> Very stupid move on behalf of Egyptian Army. The more than 50% of Egyptians who supported MB will now be pissed as hell.


You're no sage, Pakistani.


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## flamer84

*Game over for Morsi,Constitution suspended*

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## Frogman

*MABROUK ILLA KOL ALMISRIYEEN ELNAHARDA*

*Today the revolution can truly be continued and reignited*

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## Amaa'n

just look at the crowd waving flag and the fireworks......are they more alive as a nation than us? am just amazed how they gather up and take their politicians like that.....not once and but twice.....hands off to the Nation.......atleast they can gather up on one thing unlike us

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## flamer84

SUPARCO said:


> Nah, non-Muslims' opinions don't matter in Muslims' affairs.



to you,apparently to the egyptian army they're important,just saw the coptic pope alongside the generals in the new egyptian ruling council.Chew on that mullah!

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## Pakistanisage

Solomon2 said:


> You're no sage, Pakistani.





This is my Proof why this is Israel sponsored Egyptian Army move. 

Look at who is Cheerleading. A damn ZIONIST @Solomon2 is cheerleading.

A damn Zionist is clapping and dancing with Joy.

Shame on Egyptian Army to do the bidding of the Zionist.

But I am sure the Egyptian people will take this Army to task.

Now wait for the Backlash from the Egyptian People.

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## anonymus

flamer84 said:


> *Game over for Morsi,Constitution suspended*






I am against this "spreading democracy with evangelical zeal" ideology emanating from USA.

In Middle East democracy means majority committing genocide over minority.

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## Solomon2

BBC Egypt Live: link


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## flamer84

anonymus said:


> I am against this "spreading democracy with evangelical zeal" ideology emanating from USA.
> 
> In Middle East democracy means majority committing genocide over minority.



Yep,if people are not mature enough to behave and it takes the army to keep them to inflict genocide on others than so be it!

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## Armstrong

BLACKEAGLE said:


> I don't even know,  he has some daydreams of being a brother of us living in the same nation under the same ruler who follows his version of Islam. I get to help them out in getting real. We are not brothers and we won't be so. In the name of this imaginary "Islamic" Ummah, they give themselves the liberty to call us names other than Muslims, insult us and even join any enemy propaganda against us.



Oi @al-Hasani & @Yzd Khalifa - Can you please tell this Judas to stop taking digs at the Muslim Ummah otherwise I'm gonna get really pisssed off !  

And if a pisssed me gets nearly 200 million angry Pakistanis to take a pissss at his country......KSA would end up having access to the Mediterranean Sea !

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## Hussein

Pakistanisage said:


> Look at who is Cheerleading. A damn ZIONIST @Solomon2 is cheerleading.



seriously you think the policy of one country depends on Solomon2 on this website ?

you'"re serious ?


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## Solomon2

Pakistanisage said:


> This is my Proof why this is Israel sponsored Egyptian Army move. Look at who is Cheerleading. A damn ZIONIST is cheerleading. A damn Zionist is clapping and dancing with Joy. Shame on Egyptian Army to do the bidding of the Zionist.


Heh. I'm probably the only Zionist who preferred revolution to Mubarak.


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## gambit

anonymus said:


> I am against this "spreading democracy with evangelical zeal" ideology emanating from USA.
> 
> In Middle East democracy means majority committing genocide over minority.


Why is democracy needed at all to commit genocide?


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## Neptune

*HELL YEAHH! I LOVE WARR!!! (I'M NOT DRUNK!)*

[Hope there won't be a civil war again]


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## flamer84

gambit said:


> Why is democracy needed at all to commit genocide?



We were talking in the egyptian context,as soon as MB took power,Shia's got attacked,christians got attacked.

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## gambit

Pakistanisage said:


> This is my Proof why this is Israel sponsored Egyptian Army move.
> 
> Look at who is Cheerleading. A damn ZIONIST @Solomon2 is cheerleading.
> 
> A damn Zionist is clapping and dancing with Joy.
> 
> Shame on Egyptian Army to do the bidding of the Zionist.
> 
> But I am sure the Egyptian people will take this Army to task.
> 
> Now wait for the Backlash from the Egyptian People.


Enough with this Zionist this and Illuminati that already...Yeah...Millions of Egyptians are secretly Zionist Jews.

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## Solomon2

Pakistanisage said:


> Shame on Egyptian Army to do the bidding of the Zionist. But I am sure the Egyptian people will take this Army to task. Now wait for the Backlash from the Egyptian People.



BBC: _2017: Tahrir Square has erupted in cheers and fireworks after the statement of the head of the army.
The moment 1000s here at presidential palace found out #Morsi had been ousted -electric_


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## BLACKEAGLE

Frogman said:


> *MABROUK ILLA KOL ALMISRIYEEN ELNAHARDA*
> 
> *Today the revolution can truly be continued and reignited*



Say whatever you want about Morsi, but he made people believe that anyone..and I mean anyone can be a president


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## Pakistanisage

Hussein said:


> seriously you think the policy of one country depends on Solomon2 on this website ?
> 
> you'"re serious ?




If your enemy is cheering for what happened then it cannot be in the interest of Egyptian people.

You are a Shiite who is enemy of the Sunni people so it is interesting how a Shia is uniting with the damn Zionist.

So far Indians , Shiite Iranians and damn Zionist are clapping, who are the enemies of Egyptian Sunni Muslims.

How could that be good for Egypt ?

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## Frogman

Literally crying right now and my Mother betzaghrat from the window so the whole of Oxford street in London can hear.

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## Cheetah786

Al Hayat TV is reporting that Egypt's President Mohammed Morsi is under house arrest. However, Morsi's spokesman denied the report to ABC News.

On Tuesday, Egypt's military imposed a deadline for Morsi to resolve the situation after days of massive protests broke out around the country. Earlier on Wednesday, Egyptian leaders met with the army chief, "signaling the military was taking concrete moves toward implementing its plan to replace Morsi, Egypt's first freely elected leader who came to office a year ago."

The military moved to tighten up key institutions before the deadline. They "stationed officers in the newsroom of state television on the banks of the Nile River in central Cairo. Troops were deployed in news-production areas."

Morsi gave a defiant speech on Tuesday night, refusing to leave office.


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## Serpentine

*President Mohamed Morsi has been stripped of his power by the Egyptian army, General Abdel Fattah el-Sisi said in a statement. The country's chief justice of the constitutional court will be the interim president of the country.
*
The country's constitution has also been suspended. 

"The military's road map consists of dissolving the constitution and holding early presidential elections," Sisi said. He called for a panel would review the constitution and a national reconciliation committee which would include youth movements. He said the road map had been approved by a range of political groups. 

"The address of the president yesterday did not meet the demands of the masses of the people. As a result it was a necessity for the armed forces to consult with certain political and social figures without sidelining any party where the meeting parties agreed upon a future roadmap plan which included initial measures whereby a coherent Egyptian society is achieved without marginalizing any individual political party and putting an end to the state of division," he said.

Sisi added that the demands of the people have now been heeded. 

Fireworks have been set off over Cairo's Tahrir Square and across the city in celebration. 

"The people and the army are one hand," protesters cheered in the square, amid the roar of horns and chanting, a witness told Reuters. 

DETAILS TO FOLLOW 

Egypt army ousts Morsi, suspends constitution ? RT News

I don't know if this is actually a good news for majority of Egyptians or not, but I wish Egypt and Egyptians all the best, whatever happens next.

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## flamer84

gambit said:


> Enough with this Zionist this and Illuminati that already...Yeah...Millions of Egyptians are secretly Zionist Jews.



in the ME every fundamentalist has a "in case of emergency blame the jews" button

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## Solomon2

Pakistanisage said:


> If your enemy is cheering for what happened then it cannot be in the interest of Egyptian people.


Who are _you_ to decide the enemies of the Egyptian people?


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## anonymus

gambit said:


> Why is democracy needed at all to commit genocide?





It removes the last check and balance that minority community has against raving murderous mobs.

Obama need to understand that irrespective of what his Marxist buddies think, democracy cannot flourish unless there exist some basic tolerance in society.

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## 5th Star

Egypt goes in to a bloody clash or Not.

Everything depends now on the next move of Ikhwan Ul Muslimeen leadership.

If they call for a massive protest in next 24 or 36 hours. Be prepared to have a really bad news.

BTW, It was coming for the MB from the day 01.

Pro Mubarak forces could not see the Islamist ruling Egypt any more. Army was also part of the plan.


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## iranigirl2

Egypt's top military officer announces President Mohamed Morsy is no longer the leader of the country.

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## BLACKEAGLE

Armstrong said:


> Oi @al-Hasani & @Yzd Khalifa - Can you please tell this Judas to stop taking digs at the Muslim Ummah otherwise I'm gonna get really pisssed off !
> 
> And if a pisssed me gets nearly 200 million angry Pakistanis to take a pissss at his country......KSA would end up having access to the Mediterranean Sea !



Keep living that delusional dream, you will wake up one day, I hope not the hard way though.

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## gambit

flamer84 said:


> We were talking in the egyptian context,as soon as MB took power,Shia's got attacked,christians got attacked.


The criticism was about the expansion of democracy via evangelism. There is a difference between theoretical democracy and applicable democratic *INSTITUTIONS*. We believe in democracy in principle but we also advocate that each country create democratic institutions that are -- and usually must be -- unique to that country. If there are minorities in that country, then institutions must be created to protect their voices and persona safety. This is as low in details as we will go. We do not want to micromanage the creation of these institutions.

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## Pakistanisage

gambit said:


> Why is democracy needed at all to commit genocide?






How funny that the American ZIONIST TURN THEIR BACK ON DEMOCRACY if the elected Government overseas does not meet their approval. You are a damn Hypocrite who would never accept a Martial Law at home but you would use Martial Law to subvert Democracy abroad.


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## agentny17

Its Over

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## Ceylal

BLACKEAGLE said:


> I'm an* Arab* and I do care about* Egypt* which happens to be the biggest *Arab* country.



Wrong again, Egypt is a BERBER COUNTRY and the greatest Egyptian majority has a Berber ancestry. Ask Egyptian themselves, here in this forum and they will tell you they are not arabs, all of them but Mooshmoosh...ERA_923 knows that you are a bigot, too minuscule to be taken seriously, so don't blow smoke in our face you are insulting the forum participant's intelligence...

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## iranigirl2

agentny17 said:


> Its Over




What's next for Egypt?


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## BLACKEAGLE

Muslim Brotherhood is gone !!!

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## Pakistanisage

Solomon2 said:


> Who are _you_ to decide the enemies of the Egyptian people?




Who are you to deny me my right to have an opinion damn Zionist ?


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## spiderkiller

bye bye Morsy . hope not to see you again.


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## Pakistanisage

iranigirl2 said:


> What's next for Egypt?





Civil War.....


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## BLACKEAGLE

iranigirl2 said:


> What's next for Egypt?



Don't worry, Egyptian/Iranian relations will not get better..


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## Cheetah786

> Pakistanisage;4482515]If your enemy is cheering for what happened then it cannot be in the interest of Egyptian people.



who is the enemy here?and how do u know whats best for Egypt by sitting in on island some where enjoying a latte.




> You are a Shiite who is enemy of the Sunni people so it is interesting how a Shia is uniting with the damn Zionist.



last i checked his personal feelings towards the conflict has what to do with his religion or beliefs only Pakistanis cry for ummah.



> So far Indians , Shiite Iranians and damn Zionist are clapping, who are the enemies of Egyptian Sunni Muslims.



you do realize most protesting against Morsi in Egypt are Sunni heck most Egyptian want nothing to do with your sectarian crap.
I thought you were educated but turns out i was wrong.

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## iranigirl2

Pakistanisage said:


> If your enemy is cheering for what happened then it cannot be in the interest of Egyptian people.
> 
> You are a Shiite who is enemy of the Sunni people so it is interesting how a Shia is uniting with the damn Zionist.
> 
> So far Indians , Shiite Iranians and damn Zionist are clapping, who are the enemies of Egyptian Sunni Muslims.
> 
> How could that be good for Egypt ?



Shias are NOT enemies of Sunnis or any other religion. Look what has happened to Pakistan because of Your way of thinking. GROW UP.

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## anonymus

gambit said:


> The criticism was about the expansion of democracy via evangelism. There is a difference between theoretical democracy and applicable democratic *INSTITUTIONS*. We believe in democracy in principle but we also advocate that each country create democratic institutions that are -- and usually must be -- unique to that country. If there are minorities in that country, then institutions must be created to protect their voices and persona safety. This is as low in details as we will go. We do not want to micromanage the creation of these institutions.



1. By Evangelical zeal, i meant the blind support provided by US media and to large extent current US administration even when it is clear that vote would bring most rabid genocider in power. Not related to religion (If you misunderstood that).

{ I am talking about the hype of Arab Spring }

2. Democracy requires certain pre-ordinate conditions to flourish.

3. Middle east is better under the care of Kings and Pharaohs.

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## Hussein

Pakistanisage said:


> If your enemy is cheering for what happened then it cannot be in the interest of Egyptian people.
> 
> You are a Shiite who is enemy of the Sunni people so it is interesting how a Shia is uniting with the damn Zionist.
> 
> So far Indians , Shiite Iranians and damn Zionist are clapping, who are the enemies of Egyptian Sunni Muslims.
> 
> How could that be good for Egypt ?


your opinion is an extremist opinion.

1/ i am shia and i never considered myself ennemy of sunnis. sunnis are as muslim as i am

2/ i am clapping not because i am shia but because i see the hapiness of Egyptians
and by the way i am totally anti Khamenei , anti "spiritual leader" of Iran

3/ Egypt having no influence by Israel or Iran (which are two countries having lot of troubles with each other by the way)
Iran influence in Egypt ? nearly zero

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## Solomon2

Pakistanisage said:


> How funny that the American ZIONIST TURN THEIR BACK ON DEMOCRACY if the elected Government overseas does not meet their approval. You are a damn Hypocrite who would never accept a Martial Law at home but you would use Martial Law to subvert Democracy abroad.


Morsi abandoned democratic processes when he called the vote in favor of the Constitution a triumph. Obviously the majority of the voters did not support it as turnout was very low. The courts ruled months ago that the Parliamentary elections were not acceptable. If you didn't know these things, you are ignorant; if you did know them, you are trying to deceive. 

Since in 2007 I was demonstrating against Mubarak when he was still perceived as America's stooge, ignorance is your most likely excuse. You may want to change your handle until you've boned up on matters and have more experience in democracy yourself. In ten or fifteen years perhaps the "sage" bit will be appropriate - but that's a moniker that should come from others, not yourself.

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## BLACKEAGLE

spiderkiller said:


> bye bye Morsy . hope not to see you again.



It saddens me that you and us have the same view regarding him and MB.

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## anonymus

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Muslim Brotherhood is gone !!!



Both Jordan and Saudi Arabia are safe from these loons for now.




BLACKEAGLE said:


> It saddens me that you and us have the same view regarding him and MB.




He probably does not understand the implications of ouster of MB. Now with a US friendly Egypt, Not only present, but future of Iran-Egypt relations is bleak.


----------



## genmirajborgza786

democracy needs time , Morsi should have been given some more time, 1 year is just too early to judge a president/prime minister , if the people want democracy then, they should also have some patience & maturity to give the democratically elected government its due time, getting fed up after every 1 year & jumping up & down in tahrir square is not revolution its called "Anarchism"

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## Pfpilot

Argus Panoptes said:


> @Pfpilot Sir, what makes me really sad is the fact that you could replace Egypt with Pakistan in your post above, and it would really hit home, very hard.



To be honest, when I had initially written this post, I had mentioned Pakistan repeatedly. But I felt on this thread, the Egyptian cause deserved my full attention. I had assumed, due to my own struggle to keep Pakistani out of this, that my fellow country men would read 'Pakistani' every time I said 'Egyptian'. It truly is sad that many decades after our first elected official, we can still relate very personally to the struggles of a newly fledgling democracy.



Sedqal said:


> Correct so far but this phenomenon is far more common in Muslim countries. I wonder what signals it will send to Turkey?



In my opinion, the nations that have large Muslim populations occupy some of the most poverty stricken regions of the world. People as poor and desperate as these are far easier prey for ambitious men with power, ideology and authority. Whether you are Muslim or not falls to the wayside when you have no food, water, or security. In turn those in power keep these hopeless individuals in desperate circumstances in order to consolidate and stabilize their own power. Ambition of men is not a singularly Islamic concept, but one of human nature.

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## Cheetah786

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Don't worry, Egyptian/Iranian relations will not get better..



OK Mr Ambassador

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## Armstrong

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Keep living that delusional dream, you will wake up one day, I hope not the hard way though.



I've already woken up, little brother but the good thing is that I still adhere to certain ideals that I know for a fact will be realized, perhaps in my posterity's days, for they go to the very heart of Islam. 

You on the other hand are so bogged down in this Tribal Mentality of 'We are Arabs or we are Afghans etc.' that you can't see beyond those tinted glasses & even take a joke !

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## Pakistanisage

Solomon2 said:


> Morsi abandoned democratic processes when he called the vote in favor of the Constitution a triumph. Obviously the majority of the voters did not support it as turnout was very low. The courts ruled months ago that the Parliamentary elections were not acceptable. If you didn't know these things, you are ignorant; if you did know them, you are trying to deceive. Since in 2007 I was demonstrating against Mubarak when he was still perceived as America's stooge, ignorance is your most likely excuse.
> 
> You may want to change your handle until you've boned up on matters and have more experience in democracy yourself. In ten or fifteen years perhaps the "sage" bit will be appropriate - but that's a moniker that should come from others, not yourself.






Your opinion does not carry any weight with me , Zionist .

It is all BLAH,BLAH AND MORE BLAH, BLAH to me.


----------



## gambit

anonymus said:


> 1. By Evangelical zeal, i meant the blind support provided by US media and to large extent current US administration even when it is clear that vote would bring most rabid genocider in power. Not related to religion (If you misunderstood that).
> 
> { I am talking about the hype of Arab Spring }
> 
> 2. Democracy requires certain pre-ordinate conditions to flourish.
> 
> 3. Middle east is better under the care of Kings and Pharaohs.


Despite what the loony conspiracy theorists believers here say, the rise of democracy believers came from the natives. If they are strong enough to enact democratic principles but not wise enough to create appropriate institutions, their country will pay the price for their shortsightedness.

Sorry, but that is how the dice rolls...

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## spiderkiller

BLACKEAGLE said:


> It saddens me that you and us have the same view regarding him and MB.


actually it's disgusting i need to live with you and likes of you in the same continent.

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## BLACKEAGLE

anonymus said:


> Both Jordan and Saudi Arabia are safe from these loons for now.



Yes, Jordanian MB party is doomed.  Hope it gets banned.

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## BDforever

genmirajborgza786 said:


> democracy needs time , Morsi should have been given some more time, 1 year is just too early to judge a president/prime minister , if the people want democracy then, they should also have some patience & maturity to give the democratically elected government its due time, getting fed up after every 1 year & jumping up & down in tahrir square is not revolution its called "Anarchism"



i was wondering same thing, what one can do better within just 1 year ? it seems like same thing will happen again when new government will pass just 1 year.

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## gambit

Solomon2 said:


> Morsi abandoned democratic processes when he called the vote in favor of the Constitution a triumph. Obviously the majority of the voters did not support it as turnout was very low. The courts ruled months ago that the Parliamentary elections were not acceptable. If you didn't know these things, you are ignorant; if you did know them, you are trying to deceive.
> 
> Since in 2007 I was demonstrating against Mubarak when he was still perceived as America's stooge, ignorance is your most likely excuse. You may want to change your handle until you've boned up on matters and have more experience in democracy yourself. In ten or fifteen years perhaps the "sage" bit will be appropriate - but *that's a moniker that should come from others, not yourself.*


The fact that he gave it to himself is enough to nullify any intellectual qualities implied by the label.

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## Solomon2

Pakistanisage said:


> Your opinion does not carry any weight with me , Zionist . It is all BLAH,BLAH AND MORE BLAH, BLAH to me.


I suggest this new handle for you, then: PakistaniZombie. You can download an appropriate avatar from the "World War Z" trailer.


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

Cheetah786 said:


> OK Mr Ambassador



It's not like this, Iran goes against everything Egypt stands for, MB was the best Iran has ever got.


----------



## al-Hasani

Ceylal said:


> Wrong again, Egypt is a BERBER COUNTRY and the greatest Egyptian majority has a Berber ancestry. Ask Egyptian themselves, here in this forum and they will tell you they are not arabs, all of them but Mooshmoosh...ERA_923 knows that you are a bigot, too minuscule to be taken seriously, so don't blow smoke in our face you are insulting the forum participant's intelligence...



LOL. Berbers never existed in Egypt. You are a well-known clown. Egypt is SEMITIC land. You Berbers belong in the deserts of Mali, Niger (your original homeland) and parts of Algeria/Morocco.



al-Hasani said:


> Well, what do you mean by African? African is not an ethnic group just a geographical term. Africans is a very diverse term. A black South African has little or no relations to a Egyptian 8.000 km north of South Africa or a Moroccan. Likewise a Somali/Ethiopian has little connection to a Senegalese 10.000 km towards the West.
> 
> Saudis and North Koreans are both "Asians" but what those that say? Not really anything. Inuits living in Siberia are also Asians and what have they in common with Pakistanis?
> 
> Arabs/Semtiic people have an ancient presence in both North Africa/Horn of Africa/Swahili Coast and the Middle East (Levant, Iraq, Arabian Peninsula) that goes thousands years back. In fact we all share a largely similar origin which modern day genetics have confirmed, aside from the cultural, social, linguistic, historical and religious aspects.
> 
> Arab tribes are found all over the Arab world. But that does not mean that people are tribal in the sense of the word.
> 
> Regarding Gamal Abdel Nasser then read this below:
> 
> 
> 
> *The presence of the Haplogroup J-P209 across the world which is the most common haplogroup among all Arab countries in the world today and among all Semitic people:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway we Arabs have mixed with other Semitic people since ancient times, even on the Arabian Peninsula since we Arabs did not come out of nothing obviously we have Semitic ancestors that we share with all Semitic people and we have intermarried etc. It is not different in Egypt. But yes, there are Arab tribes in Egypt that are still very conscious about their tribe and traditions but most Arabs today, that includes the Arabian Peninsula, just identify as Arabs today and their home countries and not only with their tribes although there is a strong sense of pride of ones family/past/tribes and ancestry.
> 
> In regards to Egypt then Hejaz, my home region, is a neighbor of Egypt and only the narrow Red Sea separates us. Even our dialects are quite close. Migrations have taken place back and forth and we even have a lot of Egyptians in KSA.
> 
> Anyway this is all off-topic my friend and let us not derail the thread although it is difficult, I know.

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## Ceylal

SUPARCO said:


> Nah, non-Muslims' opinions don't matter in Muslims' affairs.


 really...Egypt is not 100% muslims...Egyptians want all opinions taken in account...that what was wrong with Morsi. He thought that getting a blessing from Hillary ,as Moubarak before him, was equated to eternal immunity, he thought...He forgot the strenght and the resilience of his administered.



Armstrong said:


> Oi @al-Hasani & @Yzd Khalifa - Can you please tell this Judas to stop taking digs at the Muslim Ummah otherwise I'm gonna get really pisssed off !


What are going to do, **** on his path hoping he might fall and brake his fingers



> And if a pisssed me gets nearly 200 million angry Pakistanis to take a pissss at his country......KSA would end up having access to the Mediterranean Sea !


wasted energy...Saudi can't swim or sail

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## Hashshāshīn

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Muslim Brotherhood is gone !!!



Is that your personal opinion or one of your state?


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## gambit

Solomon2 said:


> I suggest this new handle for you, then: PakistaniZombie. You can download an appropriate avatar from the "World War Z" trailer.


I was thinking more like 'The Walking Dead'. Plodding slowly on and on and on...


----------



## Pakistanisage

Solomon2 said:


> I suggest this new handle for you, then: PakistaniZombie. You can download an appropriate avatar from the "World War Z" trailer.





Spoken like a true Zionist Lowlife.....


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## livingdead

Pakistanisage said:


> Spoken like a true Zionist Lowlife.....



looks like you are not very fond of jews...


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## Gandhi G in da house

Pakistanisage said:


> If your enemy is cheering for what happened then it cannot be in the interest of Egyptian people.
> 
> You are a Shiite who is enemy of the Sunni people so it is interesting how a Shia is uniting with the damn Zionist.
> 
> *So far Indians* , Shiite Iranians and damn Zionist are clapping, who are the enemies of Egyptian Sunni Muslims.
> 
> How could that be good for Egypt ?

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## 5th Star

Pakistanisage said:


> If your enemy is cheering for what happened then it cannot be in the interest of Egyptian people.
> 
> You are a Shiite who is enemy of the Sunni people so it is interesting how a Shia is uniting with the damn Zionist.
> 
> So far Indians , Shiite Iranians and damn Zionist are clapping, who are the enemies of Egyptian Sunni Muslims.
> 
> How could that be good for Egypt ?



Rofl  

Why dragging Shia Sunni matter in every every every thing mate? 

Mr. Morsi has been over thrown by his fellow Egyptian Sunnis and not Shias.

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## anonymus

gambit said:


> Despite what the loony conspiracy theorists believers here say, the rise of democracy believers came from the natives. If they are strong enough to enact democratic principles but not wise enough to create appropriate institutions, their country will pay the price for their shortsightedness.
> 
> Sorry, but that is how the dice rolls...



I was talking about general scenario ( even though i gave example of arab spring).

Condelezza raice was all gung-ho for conducting elections in Palestine, an election that no one wanted. Result was Hamas was elected for whom foreign policy means lobbing rockets into their neighbour's cities.

Also religious parties have a large supply of sheeple population to win ballots in conservative countries.


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## iranigirl2




----------



## 500

No. Egyptian army in contrast to Shabiha Assad's army (SAA) wont massacre its own people.

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## Cheetah786

hinduguy said:


> looks like you are not very fond of jews...



No he only prefers to live with them


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## Pakistanisage

hinduguy said:


> looks like you are not very fond of jews...





No my friend, I love Jews.

Just hate the damned Zionist.

There are many Jews who hate the damned Zionist.

Please educate yourself to know that Jews don't always equate to being Zionist.

Heck you don't have to be Jewish to be a damned Zionist.

There are Christian and Muslim Zionist as well.


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## Doritos11

Now other countries in the ME will be inspired again... more protests, not much to be happy about lol.


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## BLACKEAGLE

&#7716;ashsh&#257;sh&#299;n;4482607 said:


> Is that your personal opinion or one of your state?



Both actually. We suffered from MB and their designs. Jordan has been the only Arab country that recognized them as a legal party 60 years ago while they were banned and oppressed in all Arab countries, nevertheless they backstabbed us after Arab Spring and even got more dirty as soon as they got the reign in Egypt.

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## Pakistanisage

Cheetah786 said:


> No he only prefers to live with them





Actually, I love living with my Jewish Brothers and Sisters.

I live in New York City.


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## anonymus

iranigirl2 said:


>



LOL

The regime that would come now is going to be pro-US. Iran/Syria stand to gain nothing from this except that local shia population in Egypt would be safe now.


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## BLACKEAGLE

iranigirl2 said:


>



looooool


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## iranigirl2

I hope this inspires Bahrainis to rise up again!

Egyptians support Bahraini revolution?


----------



## Cheetah786



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## ResurgentIran

Ceylal said:


> Wrong again, Egypt is a BERBER COUNTRY and the greatest Egyptian majority has a Berber ancestry. Ask Egyptian themselves, here in this forum and they will tell you they are not arabs, all of them but Mooshmoosh...ERA_923 knows that you are a bigot, too minuscule to be taken seriously, so don't blow smoke in our face you are insulting the forum participant's intelligence...



Hey man, where have you been?
Your precense have been sorely missed. Good to have you back, up and about, and outwitting these "creatures".


----------



## iranigirl2

anonymus said:


> LOL
> 
> The regime that would come now is going to be pro-US. Iran/Syria stand to gain nothing from this except that local shia population in Egypt would be safe now.




Mursi was at that SALAFI, Pro-FSA rally, where they were having Anti-shia disco Party! So, I'm glad he is gone.

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## flamer84

iranigirl2 said:


> I hope this inspires Bahrainis to rise up again!
> 
> Egyptians support Bahraini revolution?



You're encouraging them to get slaughtered,if they rise up the saudis will invade and the western world will only launch "strong protests" but that will be all.

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## al-Hasani

KSA has a much bigger and much more beautiful coastline than Algeria. In fact no other Muslim country has as long a coastline as KSA - only Indonesia has a longer one.

Our coastline is nearly 3000 km long. Algeria's coastline is less than 1000 km!

Hejazis/Yemenis/Omanis sailed across the world and spread Islam as far as the Swahili coast and Indonesia and remaining South East Asia and South Asia.

Anyway you Berbers are a minority everywhere and stateless people so I understand your daily frustrations.

Trying even to claim Makkah and Syria as Berber.

Mental hospital, this way >>>>>

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## iranigirl2

Pakistanisage said:


> Actually, I love living with my Jewish Brothers and Sisters.
> 
> I live in New York City.



But you hate Shias!

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## Cheetah786

Pakistanisage said:


> Actually, I love living with my Jewish Brothers and Sisters.
> 
> I live in New York City.


 
You love living with them you just hate them


----------



## iranigirl2

flamer84 said:


> You're encouraging them to get slaughtered,if they rise up the saudis will invade and the western world will only launch "strong protests" but that will be all.



what do you suggest they should do? They've been struggling for democracy for 100 years..


----------



## Serpentine

Pakistanisage said:


> If your enemy is cheering for what happened then it cannot be in the interest of Egyptian people.
> 
> You are a Shiite who is enemy of the Sunni people so it is interesting how a Shia is uniting with the damn Zionist.
> 
> So far Indians , Shiite Iranians and damn Zionist are clapping, who are the enemies of Egyptian Sunni Muslims.
> 
> How could that be good for Egypt ?



So tell me, are you saying millions of Egyptians in the streets are also Shiites,Jews or Zionists? What kind of logic is that?

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## anonymus

iranigirl2 said:


> Mursi was at that SALAFI, Pro-FSA rally, where they were having Anti-shia disco Party! So, I'm glad he is gone.



Yes for now,

But after Syria conflict would have been settled, you had a good chance of improving your relation with Egypt.


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## Cheetah786

[video]http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/video.html?freewheel=91074&sitesection=breitbartpeace_nws_non_sec&VID=24924835[/video]


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## Pakistanisage

Cheetah786 said:


> You love living with them you just hate them






You are obviously one of those low IQ people who don't understand the difference between a religion and a Political Philosophy.


----------



## flamer84

I don't see a solution for them in this context,they are victims of real politik and western hypocrisy.

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## iranigirl2

anonymus said:


> Yes for now,
> 
> But after Syria conflict would have been settled, you had a good chance of improving your relation with Egypt.



Do you remember when Mursi came to Iran?? The first words he publicly said on TV, was sectarian nonsense. I'm glad he is gone. The guy was anti-shia.



flamer84 said:


> I don't see a solution for them in this context,they are victims of real politik and western hypocrisy.





I'm so sad for them.

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## Cheetah786

anonymus said:


> Yes for now,
> 
> But after Syria conflict would have been settled, you had a good chance of improving your relation with Egypt.



Morsi was encouraging this sectarian hate in Egypt.

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## BLACKEAGLE

iranigirl2 said:


> Mursi was at that SALAFI, Pro-FSA rally, where they were having Anti-shia disco Party! So, I'm glad he is gone.



Stop bringing Shiite into this thread. What is happening in Egypt has nothing to do with Iran nor Shia. Egyptians in the streets don't give a flying crap about them. So, plz spare us from this crap.

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## Cheetah786

Pakistanisage said:


> You are obviously one of those low IQ people who don't understand the difference between a religion and a Political Philosophy.



Oh you mean i am not a hypocrite like you are.Why didn't you just say that.

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## Pakistanisage

Cheetah786 said:


> Morsi was encouraging this sectarian hate in Egypt.





I find it interesting to see how Pakistani Shias line up against Egyptian people.

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## iranigirl2

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Stop bringing Shiite into this thread. What is happening in Egypt has nothing to do with Iran nor Shia. Egyptians in the streets don't give a flying crap about them. So, plz spare us from this crap.



Your the one that brought in Iran and Shias into this discussion.

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## Audio

I wonder what they are saying in Qatar.

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## Cheetah786

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Stop bringing Shiite into this thread. What is happening in Egypt has nothing to do with Iran nor Shia. Egyptians in the streets don't give a flying crap about them. So, plz spare us from this crap.



OK Mr Ambassadress.



Audio said:


> I wonder what they are saying in Qatar.



Bartender hard wisky and keep it coming.

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## Pakistanisage

Cheetah786 said:


> Oh you mean i am not a hypocrite like you are.Why didn't you just say that.





I think we both know who is the real Hypocrite here, don't we ?


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## iranigirl2

Audio said:


> I wonder what they are saying in Qatar.




lol, Qataris spent so much $$$ on MB and Syria.

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## ResurgentIran

Good luck to all Egyptians, regardless of whom their next leader will be. Hopefully that person can meet the demands of the Egyptian people, which obiously Morsi did not succeed.

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## anonymus

Audio said:


> I wonder what they are saying in Qatar.



Probably only Gulf country who would be disappointed by this outcome.


As far as i know, even Saudis are against MB. It threatend monarchies of Saudi Arabia and Jordan.

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## Cheetah786

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Stop bringing Shiite into this thread. What is happening in Egypt has nothing to do with Iran nor Shia. Egyptians in the streets don't give a flying crap about them. So, plz spare us from this crap.



We are coming for you BLACKEAGLE


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## T-123456

Not possible in Egypt(army strong will interfere without hesitation).


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## PakPrinciples

> No, a new phase in revolutions starts...



What new phase? It's basically reverted back to what it was pre-revolution. Everyone who died ousting Mubarak, who was supported by the military like any dictatorship, basically lost their lives for nothing.

Now you have a large segment of the population whose votes were trashed so if they can't voice their opinion through a ballot box what will they do?


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## Thəorətic Muslim

500 said:


> No. Egyptian army in contrast to Shabiha Assad's army (SAA) wont massacre its own people.



The only people who benefited from Morsi was the MB and Army. More power to the MB and expansion of powers of the Army. 

Lets see if the Egyptian Army is willing to give up some of their outrageous powers.


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## Yeti

I pray to God one day the Military will take over Hindustan and rid of us this gandhi family rule they will do a much better job in looking after the people and fixing our economy just see what they did with the floods they broke world records!

Pray for the people of Egypt there will be peace but my Muslim brotherhood friend is gonna be pissed on Yahoo lol ill see what he says on this when I see him next

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## flamer84

Audio said:


> I wonder what they are saying in Qatar.



National day of mourning in Qatar

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## Cheetah786

Pakistanisage said:


> I find it interesting to see how Pakistani Shias line up against Egyptian people.



I find it funny how pakistani Wahhabi are against the will of Egyptian people and want the country to be just like pakistan.Millions of Egyptian in the street asking for his ouster cause of pakistani shia dahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh realy.



Yeti said:


> I pray to God one day the Military will take over Hindustan and rid of us this gandhi family rule they will do a much better job in looking after the people and fixing our economy just see what they did with the floods they broke world records!



Be careful what you wish for you just might get it.

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## Hussein

I hope and wish end of political Islam (not only insult to Islam but insult to people rights)

Egypt, Turkey, Iran : same cheat 
but Egypt did manage to kick their *** 
congrats bros

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## Ceylal

al-Hasani said:


> LOL. Berbers never *existed* in Egypt.









We are in year 2963...You have a lot catching on to do @sshole...
That Berber pheroah, shown on the above picture, built Cairo and went on and pacified was is now Palestine. No Arab ever accomplished what that Berber did thousands years ago...[since you dwell a lot in the past] and when Egypt was threatened and occupied, his descendants came all the way from NORTH AFRICA and led a memorable hand and died with Egyptians to free her from the Israeli occupation...And what the arab did? a big nothing..as always... 


> *Amazigh Sheshong I*
> 945 B.C.
> Main stream archaeology established the reign of the Amazigh (Lybian) Sheshonq I ( Shoshenk) as (945-924 B.C.) or (776-755 B.C.) dynasty 22 and aligned this with the Biblical plundering of Jerusalem (925 B.C.) by a Pharaoh they name as Shishak. King Sheshong attacked the land of Canaan but makes no reference to an attack on Jerusalem and this main stream link to the Biblical tradition is now considered invalid. Rohl theory places Sheshonq I to 776 B.C. The Third Intermediate Period (1069-664 B.C.) is now considered even more questionable than previously thought. The first Egyptian Pharaoh of Libyan Amazigh descent Seshonq I lived for some five generations (150 or 875 B.C.) in Herakleopolis.
> Sheshong I - 22nd dynasty. Also spelled Shosheng, (the Biblical Shishak in kings).
> During his reign, political infighting and religious and family factionalism posed such a threat, that in 945 B.C, Pharaoh Sheshong I formed the world's first known secret police.


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## Pakistanisage

Cheetah786 said:


> I find it funny how pakistani Wahhabi are against the will of Egyptian people and want the country to be just like pakistan.Millions of Egyptian in the street asking for his ouster cause of pakistani shia dahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh realy.
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful what you wish for you just might get it.






What a troller like don't know is that a bigger number of Egyptians supported Mursi.

I guess they will educate you soon when they come out in the streets.


----------



## Cheetah786

Pakistanisage said:


> I think we both know who is the real Hypocrite here, don't we ?




Pakistanisage


----------



## Yeti

Cheetah786 said:


> I find it funny how pakistani Wahhabi are against the will of Egyptian people and want the country to be just like pakistan.Millions of Egyptian in the street asking for his ouster cause of pakistani shia dahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh realy.
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful what you wish for you just might get it.




God willing I would welcome it I have no fear of the Military I have family members in the forces and know the nature of the men they are true sons and daughters of the soil who put their lives on the line to protect us.


----------



## Azizam

Good. Well done. Stupid monks in SL should learn the lesson not to meddle with politics.

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## anonymus

Hussein said:


> I hope and wish end of political Islam (not only insult to Islam but insult to people rights)
> 
> Egypt, Turkey, Iran : same cheat
> but Egypt did manage to kick their ***
> congrats bros



Your mullahs would prove most difficult of the lot to get rid of.




Yeti said:


> God willing I would welcome it I have no fear of the Military I have family members in the forces and know the nature of the men they are true sons and daughters of the soil who put their lives on the line to protect us.



Putting life in line does not lead to administrative competence.


----------



## flamer84

Curiously no official position from the US yet,they're probably to busy listening what's Merkel talking with her husband in their bedroom.

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## xenon54 out

> I hope and wish end of political Islam (not only insult to Islam but insult to people rights)
> 
> Egypt, Turkey, Iran : same cheat
> but Egypt did manage to kick their ***
> congrats bros


Erdogan may be a religious person but to be fair he dind't brought any religious law in Turkey.
Hes party is like the Christian partys in europe.
You cant compare Turkey with these countrys in peoples right issue.

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## omkar

Yeti said:


> I pray to God one day the Military will take over Hindustan and rid of us this gandhi family rule they will do a much better job in looking after the people and fixing our economy just see what they did with the floods they broke world records!


I am afraid our wishes won't translate in reality ever since our Politicos are smart enough to not let the power concentrate in Army's hand, Air-force is the first hurdle,almost 8,00,000 strong para military under Home ministery is second hurdle .

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## iranigirl2

anonymus said:


> Your mullahs are most difficult of the lot to get rid of.



You can't compare Iranian people and Egyptian people!


Egyptians are courageous...

Iranians not so much........when it comes to protesting and politics Iranians are very PASSIVE. They might protest for one day, and the next day.. they'll get tired, need a haircut, tan, nose job, etc... lol

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## al-Hasani

Don't post useless Berber propaganda. No Berbers in Egypt. Berbers belong in Mali and Niger and parts of Morocco and Algeria. In other words the Saharan Desert.

Berbers are not even a *homogenous* group of people. The only real Berbers live in Mali and Niger and are black Africans. There is no Berber country. Only a few millions even speak the language. It is completely irrelevant. All so-called Berbers in Morocco or Algeria have Arab or Turkish or Black African blood. *Modern day genetics confirm this*. Anyway all of them are Arabized and nearly all of them have Arabic names. Cry me a river.

This is your area of homeland and were Berber was spoken traditionally and areas were it is still spoken (different dialects and variants)









The Berber langauge is only 2200 years old. Another dream of a phantast.

Oh, Berber language is a Afroasiatic of which the Semitic branch is the biggest and Arabic particularly by far the biggest.

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## Armstrong

iranigirl2 said:


> You can't compare Iranian people and Egyptian people!
> 
> 
> Egyptians are courageous...
> 
> Iranians not so much........when it comes to protesting and politics Iranians are very PASSIVE. They might protest for one day, and the next day.. they'll get tired, need a haircut, tan, nose job, etc... lol



But I thought your nose was pretty enough....why get a nose job when it ain't broken ?

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## anonymus

al-Hasani said:


> Don't post useless Berber propaganda. No Berbers in Egypt. Berbers belong in Mali and Niger and parts of Morocco and Algeria. In other words the Saharan Desert.
> 
> Berbers are not even a *homogenous* group of people. The only real Berbers live in Mali and Niger and are black Africans. There is no Berber country. Only a few millions even speak the language. It is completely irrelevant. All so-called Berbers in Morocco or Algeria have Arab or Turkish or Black African blood. *Modern day genetics confirm this*. Anyway all of them are Arabized and nearly all of them have Arabic names. Cry me a river.
> 
> This is your area of homeland and were Berber was spoken traditionally and areas were it is still spoken (different dialects and variants)



Isn't morocco,a berber country?


----------



## acid rain

BLACKEAGLE said:


> I don't even know,  he has some daydreams of being a brother of us living in the same nation under the same ruler who follows his version of Islam. I get to help them out in getting real. We are not brothers and we won't be so. In the name of this imaginary "Islamic" Ummah, they give themselves the liberty to call us names other than Muslims, insult us and even join any enemy propaganda against us.



His nick is a dead giveaway that he is a Muslim and not Hindu, you will not brother(?) an Indian Muslim?


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

I'm just so overwhelmed, I didn't expect things to go so smoothly 

Good for you Egyptians

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## Imran Khan

i personally hate this way of change the power  this is not respective way man

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## iranigirl2

Armstrong said:


> But I thought your nose was pretty enough....why get a nose job when it ain't broken ?



lol, Iranian people won't stand in heat to protest, their makeup will be ruined, the men don't want their pretty shirts get sweaty! They might go out for an hour to look cool and take some pics with girls and boys, but that's it!


----------



## Yeti

anonymus said:


> Your mullahs would prove most difficult of the lot to get rid of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putting life in line does not lead to administrative competence.




Military is full of planning and administration how else was 100,000+ people rescued in the floods it takes clear thought and strategic planning with admin skills.


----------



## Imran Khan

were is EX-president of Egypt mursi at this time ?


----------



## Bobby

omkar said:


> Yeti said:
> 
> 
> 
> I pray to God one day the Military will take over Hindustan and rid of us this gandhi family rule they will do a much better job in looking after the people and fixing our economy just see what they did with the floods they broke world records!
> I am afraid our wishes won't be translate in reality ever since our Politicos are smart enough to not let power concentrate in Army's hand, Air-force is the first hurdle,almost 8,00,000 strong para military under Home ministery is second hurdle .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BJP is better option
> 
> On Topic
> Bad news for Egypt economy
Click to expand...


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## anonymus

Yeti said:


> Military is full of planning and administration how else was 100,000+ people rescued in the floods it takes clear thought and strategic planning with admin skills.



It is their job. Running home/finance/civil supplies/foreign ministry is not.


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## Hussein

Armstrong said:


> But I thought your nose was pretty enough....why get a nose job when it ain't broken ?


it was fashion





i know even some guys and girls who put bandage just to show they had money to do it LOL

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## anonymus

Imran Khan said:


> were is EX-president of Egypt mursi at this time ?



Mursi is looking for a kursi to place his bum.

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## Cheetah786

> Pakistanisage;4482736]What a troller like don't know is that a bigger number of Egyptians supported Mursi.



I am going by what i see on TV and internet but obviously you are blind and slow.



> I guess they will educate you soon when they come out in the streets.



Yeah cause you guess and wish death and destruction to please you


----------



## Imran Khan

anonymus said:


> It is their job. Running home/finance/civil supplies/foreign ministry is not.



he has thoughts as i have some years before



anonymus said:


> Mursi is looking for a kursi to place his bum.



nope they arrest him and keep him undisclosed location what a shame man he was president of country

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## Yeti

anonymus said:


> It is their job. Running home/finance/civil supplies/foreign ministry is not.



That is a laymans argument, did I know about selling Accounting software before I started my job? did I know how to to drive? before someone taught me? Military men are professionals and on a senior level well educated they can learn fast and perform better than any idiot like Rahul gandhi or Sonia the dumb waitress.

Tell me what skills or education does Mayawati have? yet she is a Chief Minister is she not? what is her credentials? she has none!

Anyway this is going off-topic lets not discuss it here

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## Cheetah786

flamer84 said:


> Curiously no official position from the US yet,they're probably to busy listening what's Merkel talking with her husband in their bedroom.



U.S. Government also panned Morsi's speech, saying the address fell short of detailing the reforms the Egyptian leader needed to promise to quell widespread dissatisfaction with his rule.

State Department Spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the U.S. "felt there was an absence of significant, specific steps" in Morsi's Tuesday night speech. "Unfortunately, that was not a part of what he talked about in his speech.....There's more that he needs to do," she added during a daily briefing for reporters.

The comments expressed a greater degree of U.S. dissatisfaction with Morsi than previously acknowledged by U.S. officials. However, Psaki insisted that the criticism did not reflect a U.S. decision to back the opposition or the military.

"We havent taken sides and dont plan to take sides," Psaki said. She acknowledged that she had no criticism to offer of the Egyptian military, despite a warning from military leaders that they would step in if Morsi's government and protesters did not come to an accomodation.

Psaki declined to outline specific steps the U.S. would like Morsi to take, beyond avoiding violence. However, she disputed claims by many protesters that U.S. Ambassador to Egypt Anne Patterson had sided with the government over the opposition.

In a speech two weeks ago, Patterson said she and the U.S. were "deeply skeptical" that protests would bring about positive change in Egypt. But Psaki said the full text of the ambassador's remarks showed she was not expressing a preference for the government. "We continue to support the right of all people to peaceably assemble and express themselves," Psaki said.

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## omkar

Bobby said:


> BJP is better option
> 
> On Topic
> Bad news for Egypt economy



But I don't see it comming to power due it's own internal strife and new free food ordinance.


----------



## al-Hasani

anonymus said:


> Isn't morocco,a berber country?



There is no Berber country in the world. Morocco is a country which is ruled by an Arab king and Arabic is the official language. The population is a mixture of Arabs, Berbers, Black Africans, Turks and others who have colonized/lived in Morocco throughout history. But the majority of the world's few million Berbers live in Morocco especially in the countryside. 

The real (pure) Berbers live in the Berber homeland of Niger/Mali and all of Southern Algeria (Saharan Desert in other words) and are Tuareg (Black Africans). The Berbers living in Morocco and Algeria are not a homogenous group of people and a mixture of Arabs, Turks and other foreigners. Berbers are not a homogenous group at all. Modern day genetics confirm all this.



al-Hasani said:


> Don't post useless Berber propaganda. No Berbers in Egypt. Berbers belong in Mali and Niger and parts of Morocco and Algeria. In other words the Saharan Desert.
> 
> Berbers are not even a *homogenous* group of people. The only real Berbers live in Mali and Niger and are black Africans. There is no Berber country. Only a few millions even speak the language. It is completely irrelevant. All so-called Berbers in Morocco or Algeria have Arab or Turkish or Black African blood. *Modern day genetics confirm this*. Anyway all of them are Arabized and nearly all of them have Arabic names. Cry me a river.
> 
> This is your area of homeland and were Berber was spoken traditionally and areas were it is still spoken (different dialects and variants)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Berber langauge is only 2200 years old. Another dream of a phantast.
> 
> Oh, Berber language is a Afroasiatic of which the Semitic branch is the biggest and Arabic particularly by far the biggest.

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## beast89

lol those morsi supporters stopped waving their Fake syrian and saudi flags

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## flamer84

@Cheetah786-Just saw it on CNN,they say that the US may condemn the coup and cut aid to Egypt as a result.Could the military go on with this coup without US approval?

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## anonymus

omkar said:


> But I don't see it comming to power due it's own internal strife and new free food ordinance.



Man,

discuss Indian politics in those two manhoos threads opened to deal with this very situation.



flamer84 said:


> @Cheetah786-Just saw it on CNN,they say that the US may condemn the coup and cut aid to Egypt as a result.Could the military go on with this coup without US approval?



Obama is either stupid or is advised by fundamentalist left wingers.

No system including democracy is perfect.

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## Ceylal

al-Hasani said:


> KSA has a much bigger and much more beautiful coastline* than* Algeria. In fact no other Muslim country has as long a coastline as KSA - only Indonesia has a longer one.
> 
> Our coastline is nearly 3000 km long. Algeria's coastline is less than 1000 km!


You are just like the fava bean seller on the flea market singing how sweet his beans are...I have never been in Saudi Arabia or Yemen nor intend to go to any of these places, but from what I have seen in my way to Iraq in the hay day, there is no comparaison to our coasts...




> Hejazis/Yemenis/Omanis sailed across the world and spread Islam as far as the Swahili coast and Indonesia and remaining South East Asia and South Asia.


Like I said before, I want to take anything from the ability of the Yemeni sailing skills, but I doubt that their endeavour took them to Indonesia to spread Islam. That is false. Islam was spread in Asia like it was in other area of the world by islamized locals that liked the Message.
For sea fearing North African skills are well known, there is no reason for me to detail it...We owned the Mediterranean see as well the east coast of the Atlantic.



> Anyway you Berbers are a minority everywhere and *stateless* people so I understand your daily frustrations


You keep repeating the same sad song...We are at home, the only homeless here, is you...and to be really uprooted soon...



> Trying even to claim Makkah and Syria as Berber


I won't take the shine to the Arabs, the maggpie syndrome reside in the Arabs..not the Berbers, we know who we are and where we belong...Something that Arabs since of their corallement Day by the british, they don't know where they belong...just like the sand dune they crawled out from..here today..gone tomorrow..

Have a great day ...wahabi moustique..


----------



## Cheetah786

flamer84 said:


> @Cheetah786-Just saw it on CNN,they say that the US may condemn the coup and cut aid to Egypt as a result.Could the military go on with this coup without US approval?



No they had permission other wise Generals stand to lose over billion and half plus dont forget americans are already on ground in Egypt befor this ultimatum was given.

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## Frogman

flamer84 said:


> @Cheetah786-Just saw it on CNN,they say that the US may condemn the coup and cut aid to Egypt as a result.Could the military go on with this coup without US approval?


 Cutting military aid will make the peace treaty between Egypt and Israel void. Its not up for negotiation.

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## Feyen

morocco, algeria and tunesia are more berberic than arabic. they have been arabized, but are still berbers.


----------



## Gandhi G in da house

iranigirl2 said:


> You can't compare Iranian people and Egyptian people!
> 
> 
> Egyptians are courageous...
> 
> Iranians not so much........when it comes to protesting and politics* Iranians are very PASSIVE*. They might protest for one day, and the next day.. they'll get tired, need a haircut, tan, nose job, etc... lol



Hmm... a lot like us South Asians actually.

Gotta admit, crazy they may be , but Arabs have balls.

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## anonymus

@al-Hasani

Even your map says that berbers have a significant population in morocco.


----------



## Pakistanisage

Cheetah786 said:


> I am going by what i see on TV and internet but obviously you are blind and slow.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah cause you guess and wish death and destruction to please you






Obviously you are brain dead from all that nonsense basin washing you get from your Ayatollahs in Iran.

I can't expect any rational thought coming from your Pea Brain.

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## Mitro

Why you always assume your opinion is universal ,and by loving & following the sunnah of devil,Satan,lucifer you think you are superior and Hindu son of Adam is inferior Because you are ARUB.


BLACKEAGLE said:


> Trust me, nobody here would ever think of brothering a Hindu, never. We are brothers in humanity though...


----------



## Cheetah786

Frogman said:


> Cutting military aid will make the peace treaty between Egypt and Israel void. Its not up for negotiation.



Excellent point but the question is why american military personals are on Egyptian Israeli border on Egyptian side?


----------



## Frogman

Pakistanisage said:


> Obviously you are brain dead from all that nonsense basin washing you get from your Ayatollahs in Iran.
> 
> I can't expect any rational thought coming from your Pea Brain.



Again, Teezak hamra

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## Gandhi G in da house

anonymus said:


> Man,
> 
> discuss Indian politics in those two manhoos threads opened to deal with this very situation.
> 
> 
> 
> Obama is either stupid or is advised by fundamentalist left wingers.
> 
> No system including democracy is perfect.



Obama is completely clueless about the Middle-East. He has a standard policy . Support the rebels against the rulers. Even if the rebels are a bunch of blood thirsty , power hungry , religious fanatics. He needs better advisers.

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## al-Hasani

LOL. Iraq has no coastline clown. Barely any. 50 km or so and no beaches.

The Red Sea coast is famous for its beauty and where millions of tourists go. It has the biggest coral reefs in the world after the Great Barrier Reef in Australia.

We have over 100 tropical islands in Tabuk Province alone.

Not to mention the Gulf or the beautiful and tropical Arabian Sea in Yemen. Yemen alone has 500 tropical islands.

Then open a history book and see who spread Islam across the world and to Indonesia. Millions of Indonesians have Arab blood especially from Hejaz and Yemen.

You already saw the thread made by a Chinese member who posted about 30 different sources that you tried to destroy due to your inferiority complexes.

Don't lie phantast. You claimed that Makkah was Berber until you were ridiculed. You claim Berber everywhere besides where you Berbers actually live and that is the Saharan Desert and Mali/Niger/Southern Algeria and parts of Morocco/Algeria. You must be ashamed. I pity you.

Anyway maybe you can get your own country somewhere in Niger and Mali. I hope that for you. Although I hear that other non-Berber Malians target the Berbers living in Northern Mali.

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## Imran Khan

&#1589;&#1576;&#1581; &#1583;&#1608;&#1662;&#1729;&#1585; &#1588;&#1575;&#1605; &#1580;&#1605;&#1729;&#1608;&#1585;&#1740;&#1578; &#1705;&#1740; "&#1578;&#1587;&#1604;&#1587;&#1604;" &#1705;&#1746; &#1587;&#1575;&#1578;&#1726; &#1605;&#1575;&#1722; &#1576;&#1726;&#1740;&#1606; &#1748;&#1748;&#1606;&#1746; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1746; &#1705;&#1587; &#1605;&#1606;&#1729; &#1587;&#1746; &#1605;&#1608;&#1580;&#1608;&#1583;&#1729; &#1605;&#1589;&#1585;&#1740; &#1601;&#1608;&#1580;&#1740; &#1575;&#1602;&#1583;&#1575;&#1605;&#1575;&#1578; &#1705;&#1740; &#1591;&#1585;&#1601;&#1583;&#1575;&#1585;&#1740; &#1575;&#1608;&#1585; &#1583;&#1601;&#1575;&#1593; &#1705;&#1585; &#1585;&#1729;&#1746;&#1567; &#1587;&#1605;&#1580;&#1726; &#1587;&#1746; &#1576;&#1575;&#1729;&#1585; &#1729;&#1746;

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## Cheetah786

Pakistanisage said:


> Obviously you are brain dead from all that nonsense basin washing you get from your Ayatollahs in Iran.
> 
> I can't expect any rational thought coming from your Pea Brain.



Why retards resort to name calling when they start to lose arguments is beyond me.



Imran Khan said:


> &#1589;&#1576;&#1581; &#1583;&#1608;&#1662;&#1729;&#1585; &#1588;&#1575;&#1605; &#1580;&#1605;&#1729;&#1608;&#1585;&#1740;&#1578; &#1705;&#1740; "&#1578;&#1587;&#1604;&#1587;&#1604;" &#1705;&#1746; &#1587;&#1575;&#1578;&#1726; &#1605;&#1575;&#1722; &#1576;&#1726;&#1740;&#1606; &#1748;&#1748;&#1606;&#1746; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1746; &#1705;&#1587; &#1605;&#1606;&#1729; &#1587;&#1746; &#1605;&#1608;&#1580;&#1608;&#1583;&#1729; &#1605;&#1589;&#1585;&#1740; &#1601;&#1608;&#1580;&#1740; &#1575;&#1602;&#1583;&#1575;&#1605;&#1575;&#1578; &#1705;&#1740; &#1591;&#1585;&#1601;&#1583;&#1575;&#1585;&#1740; &#1575;&#1608;&#1585; &#1583;&#1601;&#1575;&#1593; &#1705;&#1585; &#1585;&#1729;&#1746;&#1567; &#1587;&#1605;&#1580;&#1726; &#1587;&#1746; &#1576;&#1575;&#1729;&#1585; &#1729;&#1746;


In english
Morning, afternoon, evening democracy "continuity" with the mother, Come .. from the current Egyptian military actions in favor and who are defending? It is incomprehensible


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

Czar786 said:


> Why you always assume your opinion is universal ,and by loving & following the sunnah of devil,Satan,lucifer you think you are superior and Hindu son of Adam is inferior Because you are ARUB.



Well, plz come and visit Jordan, the KSA, Egypt. Libya..etc, and tell people that you want to establish a nation with Indians as brothers, and see their reaction. You know what, you don't have to visit, just go to any Arab forum and ask them 

I know the people I live with, so that's why I include them sometimes.



acid rain said:


> His nick is a dead giveaway that he is a Muslim and not Hindu, you will not brother(?) an Indian Muslim?



Nope ,


----------



## Frogman

> Excellent point but the question is why american military personals are on Egyptian Israeli border on Egyptian side?


 Its a peacekeeping force tasked with overseeing the peace treaty terms (from both sides). Its a multinational force not just American. Egypt has the capability but to do so would be to declare war and effectively cancelling the peace treaty.

They also arent allowed to conduct military operations. They are encircled and taken hostage most of the time by Sinai families.


----------



## al-Hasani

Hussein said:


> it was fashion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i know even some guys and girls who put bandage just to show they had money to do it LOL



LOL. Really? How pathetic and shameful. Don't understand the obsession about a" Northern European look". So overrated. Middle Eastern/exotic beauty all the way.

Anyway very happy that our fellow Muslim and Arab/Semitic brothers and sisters in Egypt have conducted a relatively peaceful regime change. Let us hope that the new constitution will be approved by the vast majority, that all parties of Egypt will reach a consensus and that the MB will not be isolated since they represent nearly 50% of the Egyptian people and it could be very dangerous to totally exclude them from power.

Egypt faces extremely many problems and people should unite on improving ALL of Egypt and not just stick to their own ideological dreams.

Anyway we need a stable Egypt in the Arab world and we, at least those in KSA trust our neighbors across the Red Sea to do the right things especially the Egyptian military whom we have had tremendous relations with for decades and just conducted a big military exercise in Hejaz together with our Pakistani brothers and sisters.

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## omkar

News is comming in that chief Justice of Constitutional court will be replacing Morsi.


----------



## Yzd Khalifa

So, now Egypt is MB-free country rite?

Too bad for Iran

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## Imran Khan

omkar said:


> News is comming in that chief Justice of Constitutional court will be replacing Morsi.



replaced.................


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

Frogman said:


> Again, Teezak hamra



Who do you think will be the next president? Baradi?


----------



## Doritos11

al-Hasani said:


> LOL. Iraq has no coastline clown. Barely any. 50 km or so and no beaches.
> 
> The Red Sea coast is famous for its beauty and where millions of tourists go. It has the biggest coral reefs in the world after the Great Barrier Reef in Australia.
> 
> We have over 100 tropical islands in Tabuk Province alone.
> 
> Not to mention the Gulf or the beautiful and tropical Arabian Sea in Yemen. Yemen alone has 500 tropical islands.
> 
> Then open a history book and see who spread Islam across the world and to Indonesia. Millions of Indonesians have Arab blood especially from Hejaz and Yemen.
> 
> You already saw the thread made by a Chinese member who posted about 30 different sources that you tried to destroy due to your inferiority complexes.
> 
> Don't lie phantast. You claimed that Makkah was Berber until you were ridiculed. You claim Berber everywhere besides where you Berbers actually live and that is the Saharan Desert and Mali/Niger/Southern Algeria and parts of Morocco/Algeria. You must be ashamed. I pity you.
> 
> Anyway maybe you can get your own country somewhere in Niger and Mali. I hope that for you. Although I hear that other non-Berber Malians target the Berbers living in Northern Mali.



We have about 250 km of coastline, only Britain cut it off for geopolitical interests.


----------



## Pakistanisage

Cheetah786 said:


> Why retards resort to name calling when they start to lose arguments is beyond me.
> 
> 
> In english
> Morning, afternoon, evening democracy "continuity" with the mother, Come .. from the current Egyptian military actions in favor and who are defending? It is incomprehensible






What argument did you win MORON ? Please Enlighten me.


----------



## JonAsad

This is bad for democracy- fcuk democracy anyways- muslim world thrives better under dictators-

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## anonymus

JonAsad said:


> This is bad for democracy- fcuk democracy anyways- muslim world thrives better under dictators-




Not specifically muslims but anyone who when in majority could not tolerate minorities should be kept as much away from democracy as a matchstick from gasoline.

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## BLACKEAGLE

Pakistanisage said:


> What argument did you win MORON ? Please Enlighten me.



When something has the name "Muslim" like Muslim Brotherhood, is mostly to take advantage of people passion to Islam to achieve political goals. We know MB, and they aren't any better than Iranian Mullahs.


----------



## al-Hasani

Doritos11 said:


> We have about 250 km of coastline, only Britain cut it off for geopolitical interests.



?

Kuwait has a very little coastline too. Aside that particular region was part of Ottoman regions. I believe that Basra Province went all the way down to Al-Ahsa - the land where your Prime Minister Al-Maliki's family came from, LOL. For example most of the extreme South of Iraq was inhabited by Najdi families especially Zubair, Umm Qasr and other areas. Even to this day many have such ancestries and even dialects. Basra too.



> In Basra the vast majority of the population are ethnic Arabs of the Adnanite or the Qahtanite tribes. The main tribes located in Basra are Al-Emarah, Bani Tamim, Bani Assad, Bani Ka'ab, Bani Malik, Shammar, Bani Khalid, Bani Sa'ad, Al-shwelat `Anizzah, Suwa'id, Al-bo Mohammed, Al-Jboor, Duwasir, Dhufair, Shreefat, Al-Badr[disambiguation needed], Al-Ubadi, Ruba'ah Sayyid tribes (descendants of the Islamic prophet Muhammed) and hundreds of other Arab tribes.
> In 2006, Muslim adherents were about 85% Shiite and 15% Sunni,.[25] A small number of Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac Christians also live there. There are remnants of the pre-Islamic gnostic sect of Mandaeans, whose headquarters were in the area formerly called Suk esh-Sheikh, with a small community of 3000 people or less. Basra is also home to a minority of Afro-Iraqi peoples.



We can invade Kuwait and divide it between KSA and Iraq if we then go to war with Iran and capture Arabistan and divide that too. What do you say? Then we will help you reclaim the Semitic/Assyrian/Akkadian areas of Northern Iraq from the Kurds who came from Iran.

I don't hope that any Kuwaiti is reading this.



Yzd Khalifa said:


> So, now Egypt is MB-free country rite?
> 
> Too bad for Iran





Qatar needs to be put in place. They annoy me greatly.


----------



## iranigirl2

I'm watching CNN and MSNBC, they are NOT happy about the coup!


They had a guest named Ed Husain, he was really really pissed off! lol


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## Gandhi G in da house

JonAsad said:


> This is bad for democracy- fcuk democracy anyways- muslim world thrives better under dictators-



100 out of 100 for honesty.

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## pkuser2k12

anonymus said:


> Not specifically muslims but anyone who when in majority could not tolerate minorities should be kept as much away from democracy as a matchstick from gasoline.



like your country has shiny record of *DEALING* with minorities


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## Roybot

acid rain said:


> His nick is a dead giveaway that he is a Muslim and not Hindu, you will not brother(?) an Indian Muslim?



For Arabs all South Asians are Hindus, Hindu is used more as a racial term than religious term. @BLACKEAGLE is this right?


----------



## illusion8

JonAsad said:


> Time to end the so called revolution- -



wow that sure escalated quite rapidly. 

what happens to all the planned Indian investments that Morsi came to India for?

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## Doritos11

al-Hasani said:


> ?
> 
> Kuwait has a very little coastline too. Aside that particular region was part of Ottoman regions. For example most of the extreme South of Iraq was inhabited by Najdi families especially Zubair, Umm Qasr and other areas. Even to this day many have such ancestries and even dialects. Basra too.
> 
> 
> 
> We can invade Kuwait and divide it between KSA and Iraq if we then go to war with Iran and capture Arabistan and divide that too. What do you say? Then we will help you reclaim the Semitic/Assyrian/Akkadian areas of Northern Iraq from the Kurds who came from Iran.
> 
> I don't hope that any Kuwaiti is reading this.
> 
> 
> 
> Qatar need to be put in place.



Mesopotamia is not really a place that borders so much coast unlike Hejaz on the coast, nothing wrong with that, Iraq would have more coast if it was unified with other countries like former empires, Kuwait alone would be sufficient but why only Kuwait!
Today there are sunni-shia tensions only if you look past that into history theres much better to achieve.
Superpowers will less likely mess with large countries.


For example this, even though I am not someone that supports SSNP, this sh!t is amazing, I dont care if its called Syria, based on the Assyrian empire borders.





Hope no one is offended about the annexed parts.


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## Pakistanisage

BLACKEAGLE said:


> When something has the name "Muslim" like Muslim Brotherhood, is mostly to take advantage of people passion to Islam to achieve political goals. We know MB, and they aren't any better than Iranian Mullahs.




The issue in Egypt is not Muslim Brotherhood or Salafis.

The issue is Democracy. If you abrogate Constitution and derail Democracy through the power of Gun, then you will go back to the Mubarak like Dictatorship and we both know how well that fared.


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## Imran Khan

JonAsad said:


> This is bad for democracy- fcuk democracy anyways- muslim world thrives better under dictators-



they cut the tree before its even grow 1 meter do you notice ? its same as aziz ham watno style

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## Yzd Khalifa

@al-Hasani 



> Qatar needs to be put in place. They annoy me greatly.



A dramatic change of Qatar's FP is already taking place. However, Qatar never acted out against our interests, so no biggie.

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## illusion8

pkuser2k12 said:


> like your country has shiny record of *DEALING* with minorities



Pakistan is an example of how one should treat its minorities ....right?

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## anonymus

pkuser2k12 said:


> like your country has shiny record of *DEALING* with minorities. moron



come out your madrassa propaganda. We do have a shiny record in dealing with our minorities.

Unlike you we have not hunted even a single one to extinction.

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## al-Hasani

Roybot said:


> For Arabs all South Asians are Hindus, Hindu is used more as a racial term than religious term. @BLACKEAGLE is this right?



Unfortunately some Arabs are racist but I consider an Indian Muslim to be my brother as an Arab one. Islam does not care about nationality. There are 2 million Indians in KSA and they are good people by large.

Arabs have different opinions. What Blackeagle probably refers to is that he does not want brotherhood with the Shia Indians who constantly curse us Arabs or provokes him. To be frank then neither do I want anything to do with such individuals. Also first you need to fix your own home before thinking about fixing others homes.

Also Arabs are different depending on the country and even region. It is like thinking that every Pakistani/Indian etc. is the same.

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## Imran Khan

uncle mursi so sad


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## Anubis

nick_indian said:


> 100 out of 100 for honesty.



Absolutely NOT.......Indonesia,Malaysia,Turkey.....Bangladesh(we are working on it)...

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## iranigirl2

Indian government keeps lovely Shias safe from Salafi crazy A s s HOLEs! Thank You India!

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## anonymus

Pakistanisage said:


> The issue in Egypt is not Muslim Brotherhood or Salafis.
> 
> The issue is Democracy. If you abrogate Constitution and derail Democracy through the power of Gun, then you will go back to the Mubarak like Dictatorship and we both know how well that fared.



You simply don't understand that democracy does not end at ballot box. A democratically elected government had to fulfill it's social contract toward people, else it lose it's legitimacy.

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## Frogman

> Who do you think will be the next president? Baradi?


 Honestly I don't know. We are still in shock and celebration mode. Give it a few days or weeks and we may have a clearer picture.

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## Imran Khan

the new president of egypt till elections


----------



## Cheetah786

BLACKEAGLE said:


> When something has the name "Muslim" like Muslim Brotherhood, is mostly to take advantage of people passion to Islam to achieve political goals. We know MB, and they aren't any better than Iranian Mullahs.



This post deserve a Answer From BLACKEAGLE


> Stop bringing Shiite into this thread. What is happening in Egypt has nothing to do with Iran nor Shia. Egyptians in the streets don't give a flying crap about them. So, plz spare us from this crap.

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## Devil Soul

The Gen who was appointed by Morsi himself , over throws him... how ironic ..... 
_*BAGHBAN NE AAG DI JAB AASHIYANE KO MERE
JIN PE TAKYA THA WOHI PATE HAWA DENE LAGE*_

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## Gandhi G in da house

RiasatKhan said:


> Absolutely NOT.......Indonesia,Malaysia,Turkey.....Bangladesh(we are working on it)...



Actually you are right. some countries just naturally have a democratic culture but somehow most muslim countries don't.


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## Pakistanisage

Imran Khan said:


> they cut the tree before its even grow 1 meter do you notice ? its same as aziz ham watno style






At least in Pakistan, good or bad we have democracy where one lame and limping Zardari Govt. finished its five year term and peacefully handed over the Government to a new Government.

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## pkuser2k12

anonymus said:


> come out your madrassa propaganda. We do have a shiny record in dealing with our minorities.
> 
> Unlike you we have not hunted even a single one to extinction.



what a moronic reply as expected come out of lala paloza land and then reply


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## Edevelop

Why should Indians, Pakistanis and Iranians care about this ? We are sitting miles away from Egypt...

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## anonymus

pkuser2k12 said:


> what a moronic reply as expected come out of lala paloza land and then reply



Shoo maggot.....

There are dime a dozen threads to bash India. Leave this one alone.

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## livingdead

JonAsad said:


> This is bad for democracy- fcuk democracy anyways- muslim world thrives better under dictators-



this is quite insulting to muslims...


----------



## Frogman

Devil Soul said:


> The Gen who was appointed by Morsi himself , over throws him... how ironic .....
> _*BAGHBAN NE AAG DI JAB AASHIYANE KO MERE
> JIN PE TAKYA THA WOHI PATE HAWA DENE LAGE*_


 Elsisi was already touted as the next commander of the armed forces especially after a bright career in the commandos and then the head of Egyptian military intelligence.


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## iranigirl2

hinduguy said:


> this is quite insulting to muslims...



Your not a muslim you don't understand!


----------



## livingdead

cb4 said:


> Why should Indians, Pakistanis and Iranians care about this ? We are sitting miles away from Egypt...



I looooove pyramids.. 
ever since I watched it on nat geo, I have a stake in egypt..

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## pkuser2k12

illusion8 said:


> Pakistan is an example of how one should treat its minorities ....right?



you are questioning others to take care of minorities clearly your mind is in an illusion

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## livingdead

iranigirl2 said:


> Your not a muslim you don't understand!


muslims are not from mars... as @RiasatKhan pointed out already.. bangladesh, malayasia and indonesia are doing quite well.


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## Imran Khan

Pakistanisage said:


> At least in Pakistan, good or bad we have democracy where one lame and limping Zardari Govt. finished its five year term and peacefully handed over the Government to a new Government.



situation was same as zia took power in pakistan in 1979  same style till today we are paying price of that day celebrations

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## iranigirl2

cb4 said:


> Why should Indians, Pakistanis and Iranians care about this ? We are sitting miles away from Egypt...




hmmmm I don't know about Pakistanis and Indians. But for Iranians, Egypt is very important, it's the most important Arab country near Iran.

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## illusion8

pkuser2k12 said:


> you are questioning others to take care of minorities clearly your mind is in an illusion



That was a poor attempt at being funny - try again.

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## Anubis

nick_indian said:


> Actually you are right. some countries just naturally have a democratic culture but somehow most muslim countries don't.



Note that those who don't are in a specific region of the world and abound in a specific natural resource......It is true UAE,Qatar,KSA etc has thrieved under dictatorial regimes but it is mostly because their economy is dependent on that natural resource.....When it runs out the system will collapse.....When people start working for their economy the'll start valuing democracy.When my economy depends on my contribution my opinion is what matters!

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## Cheetah786

Pakistanisage said:


> What argument did you win MORON ? Please Enlighten me.



Why u insist on calling me with your family names I am not related to You.

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## pkuser2k12

anonymus said:


> Shoo maggot.....
> 
> There are dime a dozen threads to bash India. Leave this one alone.



**** off moron and keep muslim bashing out of it don't bark kiray


----------



## Yzd Khalifa

BLACKEAGLE said:


> The funny thing is that Iranians are celebrating their fall.  Good riddance, I wish I could see how Jordanian MB leaders' faces look like right now



If you wish, we can go to Jordan and shoot the SOBs in the head.

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## BLACKEAGLE

Pakistanisage said:


> The issue in Egypt is not Muslim Brotherhood or Salafis.
> 
> The issue is Democracy. If you abrogate Constitution and derail Democracy through the power of Gun, then you will go back to the Mubarak like Dictatorship and we both know how well that fared.



I agree, the way he was ousted is not right and I didn't like it to happen out of fear of things to get ugly and bloody but thank god it was much easier than we expected, however, electing him as a president was a mistake in the first place. This mistake was committed by simple minded Egyptians who happen to be the majority who as well were carried away with Morsi's religious sentiments. More than 50% of Egyptians are illiterate, so it wasn't surprising to elect an MB president like Morsi.


----------



## iranigirl2

hinduguy said:


> muslims are not from mars... as somebody pointed out already.. bangladesh, malayasia and indonesia are doing quite well.




Sorry, you just don't get it! Those muslims are NOT Middle Eastern. Put Middle Eastern culture and Islam together= deadly mix.

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## JonAsad

anonymus said:


> Not specifically muslims but anyone who when in majority could not tolerate minorities should be kept as much away from democracy as a matchstick from gasoline.



Do you think Egypt was facing Sunni Shia problem?- you wish- 
And how ill infirmed many of you are is hilarious- seriously?-


----------



## Roybot

al-Hasani said:


> Unfortunately some Arabs are racist but I consider an Indian Muslim to be my brother as an Arab one. Islam does not care about nationality. There are 2 million Indians in KSA and they are good people by large.
> 
> Arabs have different opinions. What Blackeagle probably refers to is that he does not want brotherhood with the Shia Indians who constantly curse us Arabs or provokes him. To be frank then neither do I want anything to do with such individuals. Also first you need to fix your own home before thinking about fixing others homes.
> 
> Also Arabs are different depending on the country and even region. It is like thinking that every Pakistani/Indian etc. is the same.



Yes of course Arabs are not homogeneous. What I was trying to say is people from South Asia are called Hindus by the Arabs, irrespective of their religion. Its a racial/geographic term. Like an Arab can be a Christian, Muslim, Jew. Simlarly a Hindu(South Asian) can be a Muslim, Christian or a "Hindu".


----------



## Devil Soul

Frogman said:


> Elsisi was already touted as the next commander of the armed forces especially after a bright career in the commandos and then the head of Egyptian military intelligence.


Wasn't he the the youngest member of Supreme Council of armed forces?


----------



## Gandhi G in da house

RiasatKhan said:


> Note that those who don't are in a specific region of the world and abound in a specific natural resource......It is true UAE,Qatar,KSA etc has thrieved under dictatorial regimes but it is mostly because their economy is dependent on that natural resource.....When it runs out the system will collapse.....When people start working for their economy the'll start valuing democracy.When my economy depends on my contribution my opinion is what matters!



What about Pakistan ? and some African Muslim countries ?


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## Imran Khan

BLACKEAGLE said:


> I agree, the way he was ousted is not right and I didn't like it to happen out of fear of things to get ugly and bloody but thank god it was much easier than we expected, however, electing him as a president was a mistake in the first place. This mistake was committed by simple minded Egyptians who happen to be the majority who as well were carried away with Morsi's religious sentiments. More than 50% of Egyptians are illiterate, so it wasn't surprising to elect an MB president like Morsi.



but after elcting throwing him like this way is much big mistake / democracy must be on track 5 years .


----------



## anonymus

iranigirl2 said:


> hmmmm I don't know about Pakistanis and Indians. But for Iranians, Egypt is very important, it's the most important Arab country near Iran.



Most of the Indians here represent themselves.

Your current regime is good for India ( khoemani mullah's) but personally i would like to see them fall for sake of good for Iranian people.

Similarly i would like MB to fall for good of Egyptians even though MB is not anti-India.


----------



## Pakistanisage

Cheetah786 said:


> Why u insist on calling me with your family names I am not related to You.





Of course you are not related to me. 

I don't have inbred, Ayatullah brain washed pea brains in my family.

Get a damn life , loser.....


----------



## Devil Soul

cb4 said:


> Why should Indians, Pakistanis and Iranians care about this ? We are sitting miles away from Egypt...


A lot of Egyptians work with me, so it will be good time pass 2morrow


----------



## jaunty

Pakistanisage said:


> Obviously you are brain dead from all that nonsense basin washing you get from your Ayatollahs in Iran.
> 
> I can't expect any rational thought coming from your Pea Brain.





Pakistanisage said:


> What argument did you win MORON ? Please Enlighten me.



With all due respect, if you remember you once got me banned for a month for name calling and being disrespectful towards a member. Practice what you preach.

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## JonAsad

hinduguy said:


> this is quite insulting to muslims...



Like how?-


----------



## al-Hasani

Doritos11 said:


> Mesopotamia is not really a place that borders so much coast unlike Hejaz on the coast, nothing wrong with that, Iraq would have more coast if it was unified with other countries like former empires, Kuwait alone would be sufficient but why only Kuwait!
> Today there are sunni-shia tensions only if you look past that into history theres much better to achieve.
> Superpowers will less likely mess with large countries.
> 
> 
> For example this, even though I am not someone that supports SSNP, this sh!t is amazing, I dont care if its called Syria, based on the Assyrian empire borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope no one is offended about the annexed parts.



Yes, large historical Arab regions across the Arab world or just the Arabian Peninsula does not have coastline but only marsh like areas, oasis, wadis or small rivers. For example most of the groundwater in Iraq comes from underground rivers from Najd and Hejaz (highlands) and from nearby Iran I believe. The Euphrates and Tigris rivers start in Turkey and in the mountains there to both ultimately flow in the Gulf.

Hejaz has all kind of landscapes. Long tropical coastline, hundreds of islands, high mountains, steppe, desert and green/tropical areas.

Well, I actually believe that the Arab world should unite instead of constantly developing to more smaller regions. People think of dividing Yemen, Iraq and KSA which I find wrong. Now Syria. All that region has a common Semitic past and today the culture is very similar. Just look at Europe. Much more diverse and they are united even though they have kileld each other for 1000 years. Alone WW1 and WW2 they killed 100 million of each other. That is like all of KSA, Iraq and Yemen combined. Just 70 years ago.

That Greater Syria is quite strange. Sinai does not really fit. It is mostly inhabited by Egyptian Bedouins, Israel is out of question, Palestine too I believe, Jordan too. 

Cyprus? Not even Arab. Turkish and Greek. What about the Kurdish areas in Syria and Iraq? We can all dream but I believe that it is utopia.

I never knew that countries like Morocco and Algeria hated each other and were enemies. Just look at some of their forums. Surprised me greatly. Just look at all the Arab rivalry constantly.

Even Iraq and Syria were enemies for 30 years despite both being neighbors and ruled by Arab nationalists (Ba'ath).

Qatar and KSA are competing with each other.

Closest to an real union is the GCC I believe.

Anyway the day and age of Arab nationalism (SSNP are Arab nationalist from what I know of) have ended long ago. Syrian nationalism is just Arab nationalism disguised as the philosophy of Greater Sham (Syria/Levant)

Oh, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia just congratulated the Egyptian people.

Yzd: I still find Qatar annoying. Where did they come from? Are they any different from Saudis living in the Eastern Province? Imagine all the extra oil and gas we could have?

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## livingdead

iranigirl2 said:


> Sorry, you just don't get it! Those muslims are NOT Middle Eastern. Put Middle Eastern culture and Islam together= deadly mix.



sorry, I dont believe you.. middle east is like this just because it has always been so.. its not like they were democracy and people started to prefer autoritarianism.. 
most countries were like that in last 100 years.. just that ME people never were in a position to decide... one day they will...

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## pkuser2k12

*The eqyptian army cheif was saying army went in on the call of people of egypt*

there were equal number of pro and anti morsi supporters at different places and yet the army chief heard opposition plea to come to the request and oust the president

and now they send morsi to jail and jailed leaders of MB and now they claim they will conduct free election .what hypocrisy 

*a drama by supreme court and army of egypt*


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## JonAsad

Iranians are getting happy over nothing- they just want to see the Muslim world in chaos-

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## iranigirl2

hinduguy said:


> sorry, I dont believe you.. middle east is like this just because it has always been so.. its not like they were democracy and people started to prefer autoritarianism..
> most countries were like that in last 100 years.. just that ME people never were in a position to decide... one day they will...



What you need to understand is that some Middle Eastern countries with large number of minorities need a dictator, to protect the country and everyone that lives in it! You don't understand certain sect of islam asks people to kill everyone!

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## Gandhi G in da house

hinduguy said:


> I looooove pyramids..
> ever since I watched it on nat geo, I have a stake in egypt..



I fell in love with Egypt after watching The Mummy 

Later I realised they are not the same country anymore.


----------



## livingdead

JonAsad said:


> Like how?-



saying some people can only thrive when they are forced under some authoritarian (like a school teacher needed for unruly kids) means the society is not mature and cant handle their own affairs by consensus or some mechanism they use to decide it together...
dont you think it assumes muslims are like infants..

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## iranigirl2

JonAsad said:


> Iranians are getting happy over nothing- they just want to see the Muslim world in chaos-



LOL! conspiracy loon.


Shias, Jewish and Zoroastrians are celebrating at the white house!

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## Pakistanisage

jaunty said:


> With all due respect, if you remember you once got me banned for a month for name calling and being disrespectful towards a member. Practice what you preach.





Sir, I didn't start this and I am just giving him his own medicine. If you hurl insults at others, you cant expect roses.


----------



## Cheetah786

Pakistanisage said:


> Of course you are not related to me.
> 
> I don't have inbred, Ayatullah brain washed pea brains in my family.
> 
> Get a damn life , loser.....



Sinking lower and lower typical signs of desperation

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## anonymus

JonAsad said:


> Do you think Egypt was facing Sunni Shia problem?- you wish-
> And how ill infirmed many of you are is hilarious- seriously?-



I was talking about general situation in Egypt.

Mursi was acting all dictatorial and forcing a conservative constitution on Egyptians, a substantial portion of whom 49% at least does not supported.

As i have pointed out to another pakistani poster before, Democracy does not end at ballot box. An elected government has to keep it's end of bargain of social contract.

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## pkuser2k12

JonAsad said:


> Iranians are getting happy over nothing- they just want to see the Muslim world in chaos-



they think new leader will not be anti shia like MB or will not interfere in syria by some means 

they are wrong even a bigger dictator will bring more caos in the region and will be a stooge/puppet of army


----------



## Gandhi G in da house

iranigirl2 said:


> Sorry, you just don't get it! Those muslims are NOT Middle Eastern. Put Middle Eastern culture and Islam together= deadly mix.



Turkey is in the Middle-East. 

Iran ? do you think Iran can ever be a successful democracy ?

Pakistan ? They just had their first democratic transition in 66 years of their history. Pakistan is not in the Middle-East.


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## Frogman

Devil Soul said:


> Wasn't he the the youngest member of Supreme Council of armed forces?



Yes he was and I think its a testament to how capable the man is going from a simple Anti-tank specialist commando officer to the youngest member of the SCAF and in charge in arguably the most important seat in it after the commander of the armed forces. I may be exaggerating because of what happened just now but I will leave you to judge.


----------



## Hussein

Imran Khan said:


> situation was same as zia took power in pakistan in 1979  same style till today we are paying price of that day celebrations


???
you compare Bhutto with Morsi ?
and PPP with MB ?


----------



## JonAsad

hinduguy said:


> saying some people can only thrive when they are forced under some authoritarian (like a school teacher needed for unruly kids) means *the society is not mature and cant handle their own affairs by consensus or some mechanism they use to decide it together..*.
> dont you think it assumes muslims are like infants..



There is going to be a third revolution in almost as many years- dont you think you have just mentioned a truth?-


----------



## pkuser2k12

iranigirl2 said:


> What you need to understand is that some Middle Eastern countries with large number of minorities need a dictator, to protect the country and everyone that lives in it! You don't understand certain sect of islam asks people to kill everyone!



you are insane

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## Devil Soul

Frogman said:


> Yes he was and I think its a testament to how capable the man is going from a simple Anti-tank specialist commando officer to the youngest member of the SCAF and in charge in arguably the most important seat in it after the commander of the armed forces. I may be exaggerating because of what happened just now but I will leave you to judge.


i dont have any doubt in his abilities, but one thing is for sure that Morsi wasnt expecting this from him


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## iranigirl2

nick_indian said:


> Turkey is in the Middle-East.
> 
> Iran ? do you think Iran can ever be a successful democracy ?
> 
> Pakistan ? They just had their first democratic transition in 66 years of their history. Pakistan is not in the Middle-East.



Turks have been secularized for over 80 years now.

Iran is not really a middle eastern country, I see our culture more as something close to central Asia!

Pakistani used to be chilled too, until very recently.


Iran can be democracy, but it will be in chaos for at least couple years, because different factions will kill each other!

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## omkar

hinduguy said:


> muslims are not from mars... as @RiasatKhan pointed out already.. bangladesh, malayasia and indonesia are doing quite well.



Bangladesh ??Already 20+ coups, counter coups and failed cops and counter counter coups.


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## JonAsad

iranigirl2 said:


> LOL! conspiracy loon.
> 
> 
> Shias, Jewish and Zoroastrians are celebrating at the white house!



All of them celebrating together in white house tells a lot about the intentions- thanks for memtioning that trouble maker-

Wondering when shias will celebrate revolution against khomeni in white house with the jews-

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## Pakistanisage

Cheetah786 said:


> Sinking lower and lower typical signs of desperation





No desperation here Pal.

Just having fun with an immature kid.

Grow up and then come back for a rational argument.

I can't argue with ahle Bait Madrassa kid who has been fed Ayatollah nonsense.


----------



## Doritos11

al-Hasani said:


> Yes, large historical Arab regions across the Arab world or just the Arabian Peninsula does not have coastline but only marsh like areas, oasis, wadis or small rivers. For example most of the groundwater in Iraq comes from underground rivers from Najd and Hejaz (highlands) and from nearby Iran I believe. The Euphrates and Tigris rivers start in Turkey and in the mountains there to both ultimately flow in the Gulf.
> 
> Hejaz has all kind of landscapes. Long tropical coastline, hundreds of islands, high mountains, steppe, desert and green/tropical areas.
> 
> Well, I actually believe that the Arab world should unite instead of constantly developing to more smaller regions. People think of dividing Yemen, Iraq and KSA which I find wrong. Now Syria. All that region has a common Semitic past and today the culture is very similar. Just look at Europe. Much more diverse and they are united even though they have kileld each other for 1000 years. Alone WW1 and WW2 they killed 100 million of each other. That is like all of KSA, Iraq and Yemen combined. Just 70 years ago.
> 
> That Greater Syria is quite strange. Sinai does not really fit. It is mostly inhabited by Egyptian Bedouins, Israel is out of question, Palestine too I believe, Jordan too.
> 
> Cyprus? Not even Arab. Turkish and Greek. What about the Kurdish areas in Syria and Iraq? We can all dream but I believe that it is utopia.
> 
> I never knew that countries like Morocco and Algeria hated each other and were enemies. Just look at some of their forums. Surprised me greatly. Just look at all the Arab rivalry constantly.
> 
> Even Iraq and Syria were enemies for 30 years despite both being neighbors and ruled by Arab nationalists (Ba'ath).
> 
> Qatar and KSA are competing with each other.
> 
> Closest to an real union is the GCC I believe.
> 
> Anyway the day and age of Arab nationalism (SSNP are Arab nationalist from what I know of) have ended long ago. Syrian nationalism is just Arab nationalism disguised as the philosophy of Greater Sham (Syria/Levant)
> 
> Oh, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia just congratulated the Egyptian people.
> 
> Yzd: I still find Qatar annoying. Where did they come from? Are they any different from Saudis living in the Eastern Province? Imagine all the extra oil and gas we could have?



Its based on an empire thousands of years ago, demographics were different, Kurds, Turks were not at those lands yet, at least Turks were not, Kurds maybe in small numbers.
Only that party would achieve it means by fascist ways, its sign even is like the nazi sign.. too much nationalism they will bring war which will ruin everything.

Qatar is like Kuwait protected by a superpower, both countries have US military bases making it nearly impossible to change it.
They will not allow unification cause it will pose a threat to them, imagine if the US did not take Saddam out in 1991 and do nothing, eventually it will become a major threat to Israel, their end maybe.


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## livingdead

JonAsad said:


> There is going to be a third revolution in almost as many years- dont you think you have just mentioned a truth?-



nope.. this is transition... sh*t happens during transition.. you cant just run in one day.... first few times you will fall down..
the idea that muslims do not like democracy is a myth..

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## JonAsad

iranigirl2 said:


> What you need to understand is that some Middle Eastern countries with large number of minorities need a dictator, to protect the country and everyone that lives in it! You don't understand certain sect of islam asks people to kill everyone!



Nice and Egypt with 90% Sunni Muslims and almost non existance Shias qualify in that category-
Did you had your medicines today confused baboon?-

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## Cheetah786

pkuser2k12 said:


> they think new leader will not be anti shia like MB or will not interfere in syria by some means
> 
> they are wrong even a bigger dictator will bring more caos in the region and will be a stooge/puppet of army



Egyptian and Egyptian army wants no part of being involved in sectarian wars.Pakistanis Love of destroying ones country to please the Arabs is not shared by civilized people.

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## al-Hasani

iranigirl2 said:


> Turks have been secularized for over 80 years now.
> *
> Iran is not really a middle eastern country, I see our culture more as something close to central Asia!*
> 
> Pakistani used to be chilled too, until very recently.
> 
> 
> Iran can be democracy, but it will be in chaos for at least couple years, because different factions will kill each other!



Central Asia in particular the Kazakh Steppe is also the original homeland of Persians!

Then stop constantly meddling in Arab/Semitic/Middle Eastern matters and making threads about Arab internal matters day and night.

Are you really a woman? If so, don't you have something better to do? Did you not live in California?

Look at me or the Arabs here. How many threads have we made about Iran? 10? You alone have made 20 about Egypt, KSA and other Arab countries *just in the last two days*!


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## livingdead

omkar said:


> Bangladesh ??Already 20+ coups, counter coups and failed cops and counter counter coups.



they are doing pretty well.. I dont think there will be any more coups..


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## Genesis

only a matter of time.

A president of a new country needs military support. Best if he is also a military man.

Washington was, Napoleon was, and all the Chinese presidents of the warlord and Sino Japanese war as well as after was. Mao was also.

The Japanese Meiji revolution people has a military background. 

Morsi has no military power, only a matter of time before he is done. He was given the impossible job to begin with.

The military before had no cause to kick him out, and doing it bluntly would be too much at that time even for the military to handle. 

Now, it is the perfect time.

Egypt shouldn't make the mistake of China and lose that one man who units the military and thus country. If he is gone then anarchy will truly begin. And the warlord era in Egypt wil lstart. 

Hopefully it won't come to that.


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## Syrian Lion

best of luck to the people of Egypt.

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## Cheetah786

JonAsad said:


> Nice and Egypt with 90% Sunni Muslims and almost non existance Shias qualify in that category-
> Did you had your medicines today confused baboon?-



90% Muslims not 90% wahhabi


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## iranigirl2

Syrian Lion said:


> best of luck to the people of Egypt.



White house is pissed off, the necons are cyring! their dream for a wider Shia/Sunni war is crushed!

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## pkuser2k12

Cheetah786 said:


> Egyptian and Egyptian army wants no part of being involved in sectarian wars.Pakistanis Love of destroying ones country to please the Arabs is not shared by civilized people.



my point was it will not stop by new leader he will be a stooge and such coups don't happen in civilized countries so dont kid your self


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## JonAsad

anonymus said:


> I was talking about general situation in Egypt.
> 
> Mursi was acting all dictatorial and forcing a conservative constitution on Egyptians, a substantial portion of whom 49% at least does not supported.
> 
> As i have pointed out to another pakistani poster before, Democracy does not end at ballot box. An elected government has to keep it's end of bargain of social contract.



So under such circumstances an unconstitutional method of removing an elected government becomes acceptable?- what good a resultant democrazy will be when installed by dictatorial rule?-


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## Cyberian

One step forward for Egypt and two steps backwards.

Now that some Egyptians have allowed Army to topple a democratically elected Government, the Egyptian Army will be back again and again whenever they feel like it.

Just ask our Bangladeshi brothers - 27 military coups in its 42 year history.

All the best people.


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## Pakistanisage

Cheetah786 said:


> Egyptian and Egyptian army wants no part of being involved in sectarian wars.Pakistanis Love of destroying ones country to please the Arabs is not shared by civilized people.





Pakistani people will rise above this sectarian BS. People who support Extremist on both sides of sectarian divide are a minority and they are on the losing end because Pakistanis will not tolerate that kind of exremist behavior from either side.


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## pkuser2k12

Pakistanisage said:


> Pakistani people will rise above this sectarian BS. People who support Extremist on both sides of sectarian divide are a minority and they are on the losing end because Pakistanis will not tolerate that kind of exremist behavior.



not gona happen while nawaz is in government and those baloch sardars supporting lashkar against hazara and shias


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## JonAsad

hinduguy said:


> nope.. this is transition... sh*t happens during transition.. you cant just run in one day.... first few times you will fall down..
> the idea that muslims do not like democracy is a *myth*..



A myth cannot be a reflection of real time events- in this case it is-

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## Edevelop

iranigirl2 said:


> hmmmm I don't know about Pakistanis and Indians. But for Iranians, Egypt is very important, it's the most important Arab country near Iran.



Okay if you talk about the Middle East, India does not come anywhere near geographically.

Pakistan at least borders Iran and faces Oman in the Gulf of Oman. We could deploy troops towards your border and or keep our Navy active in the shores of the Arabs. But we are not going to do it because we are neutral. We believe Sunnis and Shias are Muslim and are our friends

You Iranians and Arabs look at each other importantly because you want your own influence. I think both of you need to sort out your problems and stop playing proxies.

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## Pakistanisage

iranigirl2 said:


> White house is pissed off, the necons are cyring! their dream for a wider Shia/Sunni war is crushed!





I don't think your Ayatollahs will let this Shia Sunni divide simmer.

Iran has been exporting its Shia Revolution for last 34 years.

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## Gandhi G in da house

iranigirl2 said:


> Turks have been secularized for over 80 years now.
> 
> Iran is not really a middle eastern country, I see our culture more as something close to central Asia!
> 
> Pakistani used to be chilled too, until very recently.
> 
> 
> Iran can be democracy, but it will be in chaos for at least couple years, because different factions will kill each other!



Everything else is okay . But Pakistan ? It has been a dictatorship right since the beginning. Just now they completed their first democratic term.


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## Syrian Lion

*President al-Assad in interview to al-Thawra newspaper: what is happening in Egypt is fall of so-called "Political Islam"​*
Jul 04, 2013





​
President Bashar al-Assad said that what is happening in Egypt is the fall of so-called "political Islam", adding that those who use religion for political interests or for the interests of one group will fall anywhere in the world.

In an interview to al-Thawra newspaper, President al-Assad said, "You cannot deceive everyone all the time, particularly the Egyptian people who have a civilization dating back to thousands of years and clear pan-Arab nationalist thought."

The President added that after a year the image has become clear for the Egyptian people and the performance of the Muslim Brotherhood helped them uncover the lies made by the Brotherhood in the beginning of the popular revolution in Egypt."

President al-Assad said the experiment of the Muslim Brotherhood's rule failed even before it started because this kind of rule is not consistent with the nature of the people and the project of the brotherhood is hypocritical that actually aims at creating sedition in the Arab world.

The President stressed that sedition cannot last in societies that possess knowledge, adding "this is why from the beginning I said their project is a failure before it began and this is what made the Muslim Brotherhood's experiment fall quickly because it is wrong, and what is built on a wrong principle will definitely fall."

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## JonAsad

Cheetah786 said:


> 90% Muslims not 90% wahhabi



Can you differentiat between these two with your biased eyes?- can you?-
For your likes anything Muslim but non Shia is a Wahhabi-

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## Pakistanisage

pkuser2k12 said:


> not gona happen while nawaz is in government and those baloch sardars supporting lashkar against hazara and shias





Well then we will have to take care of Nawaz Government , won't we ?


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## anonymus

JonAsad said:


> So under such circumstances an unconstitutional method of removing an elected government becomes acceptable?- what good a resultant democrazy will be when installed by dictatorial rule?-



Pretty much OK,

Democracy is not superior to other form of rules under all circumstances. It is just one of the systems which some Lefties have elevated to the position of religion along with their other mumbo-jumbo.

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## livingdead

JonAsad said:


> A myth cannot be a reflection of real time events- in this case it is-


you are taking a very small time frame to arrive at conclusion.. the transition happened only recently.. if you were posting it during 1800s you would have said.. indians only like to be ruled by foreigners ...
what do you think about buddist countries then.. majority of them live under authoritiarian regimes.. or strong military ..does not mean they like it...

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## Pakistanisage

JonAsad said:


> Can you differentiat between these two with your biased eyes?- can you?-
> For your likes anything Muslim but non Shia is a Wahhabi-





Exactly, because he takes his marching orders from Iranian Ayatollahs instead of realizing that people like him are being used by these Ayatollahs and their opponents for having a PROXY WAR in Pakistan.

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## Syrian Lion

Morsi out, might need a different airliner company though.

Islamist Domino Working In Reverse Effect - Egypt's Day - SyriaNews


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## al-Hasani

Doritos11 said:


> Its based on an empire thousands of years ago, demographics were different, Kurds, Turks were not at those lands yet, at least Turks were not, Kurds maybe in small numbers.
> Only that party would achieve it means by fascist ways, its sign even is like the nazi sign.. too much nationalism they will bring war which will ruin everything.
> 
> Qatar is like Kuwait protected by a superpower, both countries have US military bases making it nearly impossible to change it.
> They will not allow unification cause it will pose a threat to them, imagine if the US did not take Saddam out in 1991 and do nothing, eventually it will become a major threat to Israel, their end maybe.



Well if it is based on the Semitic Assyrian Empire then it need to include large areas of current day KSA and Egypt. I believe that in this time and age that it is a utopia.

Regarding Kuwait and Qatar then I believe, from what I remember, that they were British protectorates. According to sources then the ruling Kuwaiti family has ruled Kuwait for 300 years and likewise the Al-Thani family in Qatar (also approximately 300 years). But I have also heard rumors about some Arabs and Qataris that the current branch of the Qatari rulers are Indians originally.

Just imagine the whole Arabian Peninsula with Jordan (sometimes included and sometimes not geographically - politically it is). That would be a real power and sit on nearly all of the natural resources in the region and large parts of he entire world's resources. Or even if Iraq was part of it too and parts of Syria.

Or just like nature/geography (the earths plates)






Funny how well it correspondents with the Arab homeland. Even the areas of Iran that belong to the Arabian Plate are partially inhabited by Arabs. The Turkish areas too. How strange!

But of course today's Kuwaitis even though nearly all of them are either originally Arabs from KSA or Iraq (there are also smaller parts of Kurds, Baluch people, Africans, Iranians etc. although all of them combined barely make 5 or 10%) would not want to join neither of them since they have no reason to share all their wealth with big populations.

This is why Qatar is the richest country in the world. Ordinary Qataris are extremely rich and live like super rich people do everywhere else.

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## JonAsad

anonymus said:


> Pretty much OK,
> 
> Democracy is not superior to other form of rules under all circumstances. It is just one of the systems which some Lefties have elevated to the position of religion along with their other mumbo-jumbo.



Egypt started with a revolution against a Dictator- 
Later They had their democratic leader- yet they dissent-

Now they are gona use another Dictatorial rule to help reinstall another democracy-
Wtf with the people-


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## Anubis

nick_indian said:


> What about Pakistan ? and some African Muslim countries ?



Again most prominent muslim countries in Africa also have oil and are in close proximity to the middle east.......but the good thing is they are in active transition towards democracy......Tunisia,Libya,Egypt are among them....Morocco,Siera Leone,Senegal are democracies....the only exception are Algeria and Sudan!Pakistan is an unique case and it has always faced unique problems.But I don't understand why it turned out to be dictatorial for a huge part of its existence!

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## Azizam

Pakistanisage said:


> Exactly, because he takes his marching orders from Iranian Ayatollahs instead of realizing that people like him are being used by these Ayatollahs and their opponents for having a PROXY WAR in Pakistan.



he cleans persian toilets. i wonder if they smell good

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## Yzd Khalifa

iranigirl2 said:


> Shias are NOT enemies of Sunnis or any other religion. Look what has happened to Pakistan because of Your way of thinking. GROW UP.



I know hearing the truths always hurt, but @Pakistanisage is burning from the inside everytime he sees the majority of the Syrian people being killed by .....

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## omkar

nick_indian said:


> Everything else is okay . But Pakistan ? It has been a dictatorship right since the beginning. Just now they completed their first democratic term.



Only since NATO is right next to them and don't overlook about their ambassador fiasco in US .

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## al-Hasani

Very happy that our fellow Muslim and Arab/Semitic brothers and sisters in Egypt have conducted a relatively peaceful regime change. Let us hope that the new constitution will be approved by the vast majority, that all parties of Egypt will reach a consensus and that the MB will not be isolated since they represent nearly 50% of the Egyptian people and it could be very dangerous to totally exclude them from power.

Egypt faces extremely many problems and people should unite on improving ALL of Egypt and not just stick to their own ideological dreams.

Anyway we need a stable Egypt in the Arab world and we, at least those in KSA trust our neighbors across the Red Sea to do the right things especially the Egyptian military whom we have had tremendous relations with for decades and just conducted a big military exercise in Hejaz together with our Pakistani brothers and sisters.

Oh, King Abdullah of KSA just congratulated the Egyptian people and Egypt with their choice and the new interim-president.


> Saudi King Abdullah Bin Abdul Aziz congratulated the newly-appointed Egyptian interim President, Adly Mansour.
> He said that wisdom and prudence safeguarded the rights of all parties in the political process.
> Meanwhile, the United Arab Emirates is following with satisfaction the developments in Egypt, UAE Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nahyan said on Wednesday.
> He said that his country is confident that the Egyptian people will be able to overcome the current difficult situation to reach a safe and prosperous future, the Emirates News Agency (WAM) reported on Wednesday.
> The UAE foreign minister also said that the Egyptian army proved that it was a strong shield and protector, which  he added  guarantees the country embraced all components of the people.
> He also said that the UAE will continue to strengthen its bilateral relations with Egypt.
> Jordan also commented on the latest developments in Egypt, Al Arabiya correspondent reported. The kingdom said it respected the wishes of the Egyptian people as well as the role of the armed forces.
> The Egyptian army chief, Abdel Fattah al-Sissi, ousted Islamist President Mohammad Mursi on Wednesday and announced the head of the Supreme Constitutional Court caretaker leader.



Saudi king congratulates Egypt's new interim president - Alarabiya.net English | Front Page

KSA being the biggest Arab economy will surely help our brothers and sisters and neighbors across the Red Sea if Egypt wishes.

Qatar is annoying the whole Arab world.

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## Syrian Lion

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I know hearing the truths always hurt, but @Pakistanisage is burning from the inside everytime he sees the majority of the Syrian people being *killed by* .....



Alqaeda which are....

enough with your BS... Syrians are killed because of the west and their puppets who send weapon, which will only add more bloodshed... not a GCC puppet ever called for peace...

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## JonAsad

hinduguy said:


> you are taking a very small time frame to arrive at conclusion.. the transition happened only recently.. if you were posting it during 1800s you would have said.. indians only like to be ruled by foreigners ...
> what do you think about buddist countries then.. majority of them live under authoritiarian regimes.. or strong military ..does not mean they like it...



Small time frame?- No- see the bigger picture-

History speaks for itself-
Muslims have always thrived under one leader- a sort of dictator- 
And that was corrupted by the fitna invented and exported by the west called Democracy- 
Behold Democracy where we muslims are at now?- 
Lowest after centuries of dominance-


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## anonymus

JonAsad said:


> Egypt started with a revolution against a Dictator-
> Later They had their democratic leader- yet they dissent-
> 
> Now they are gona use another Dictatorial rule to help reinstall another democracy-
> Wtf with the people-



It is not an ideal situation but Elected dictators should start to fear their people, the lack of which is biggest hindrance to development of a stable democracy in middle east. Morsy ideally should not have acted like a$$hole and found middle path in constitution framing.

As the saying goes " Aag ko pani ka dar hona zarrori hai".

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## Yzd Khalifa

anonymus said:


> Both Jordan and Saudi Arabia are safe from these loons for now.
> .



Honestly, the one who's having a hard time dealing with them is the Gov't of the UAE :/

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## Syrian Lion

man Wikipedia is fast 

Mohamed Morsi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Egyptian_coup_d'état


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## Yzd Khalifa

iranigirl2 said:


> I hope this inspires Bahrainis to rise up again!
> 
> Egyptians support Bahraini revolution?



We will shoot the terrorists, forget about Bahrain, trust me you can't help it.

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## Pakistanisage

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I know hearing the truths always hurt, but @Pakistanisage is burning from the inside everytime he sees the majority of the Syrian people being killed by .....






You know Brother, I hate Hypocrisy and Injustice.

I support Syrian people because they are weak and the animal Hafez Al Assad and his ignominious Son destroyed their lives and oppressed them for nearly 40 + years.

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## Devil Soul

from tribune.com.pk comments


> Nikos Retsos
> 6 hours ago
> Reply
> It was apparent from the beginning of Mr. Morsis election that the U.S. was not happy with him, nor with his trip to Tehran, Iran, afterward to join a conference of 123 anti-American and pro-Iranian states. From that point on, Mohammed Morsi became a Salvador Allende-like political figure that the U.S. would do anything to overthrow, and return Egypt to a Mubarak-like figure that it could control. Even though the U.S. pretends publicly to support Morsi  because he was elected, and the U.S. pretends publicly to support democracy, I have no doubt as a historian that the opposition to Morsi has been orchestrated, funded, and designed by the U.S. This is not just my opinion; this has been standard U.S. policy after WWII.
> 
> The U.S. would never have accepted a government in Egypt headed by the Muslim Brotherhood which the U.S. had forced Mubarak to hunt, prosecute, jail, and torture  including the famed Egyptian cleric Abu Omar that the CIA kidnapped in Italy, and turned over to Egypt to be tortured and kept in prison.
> 
> He was released from prison only after Italian judge Joseph Spataro issued arrest warrants for the 12 CIA agents who kidnapped him. The warrants are still in force, but the U.S. refused to extradite the 12 CIA agents to Italy.
> Now. Can anyone believe that the U.S. would have allowed Morsi to govern Egypt, when the U.S. had forced Mubarak to prosecute Morsi and stuff him in prison for years? What happens today in Egypt is a U.S. funded, armed, and supported Egyptian army as it what happened in Venezuela when U.S bribed and supported Venezuelan Generals arrested and overthrew the elected leader, the late Hugo Chavez. Fortunately for Chavez, General Morales, the commander of the armys armored (tanks) division refused to take a large bribe  as he told the CBS News, 60 Minutes Paul Simon- to join the coup, and send helicopters with commandoes to free Chavez by force, then arrested the coup plotters. This scenario is playing now in Egypt against Morsi, but the U.S. has prepared the ground with funding of the opposition parties to make the Egyptian Armys overthrow of Mr. Morsi as a demand by the Egyptian people!
> 
> It also happened in Greece back in 1974 when a CIA instigated military coup overthrew the anti-American prime minister Andreas Papandreou and then the caretaker prime minister Mr. Kanelopoulos.
> 
> I predict there would be bloodshed in Egypt, and by funding the subversion of Mr. Morsi, the U.S. can pretend its an internal matter. If anybody doubt, keep this in mind: When the U.S. identifies the European ambassadors of its allies as targets, and spies on all their activities  as Mr. Snowdens documents proved, would it be possible that the U.S. would allow a Muslim Brotherhood  a jihadist and formerly deemed terrorist organization to the U.S.  president to govern Egypt? Not a chance! All the turmoil in Egypt is not ingrown; it is designed in Washington! Nikos Retsos, retired professor


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## Cheetah786

JonAsad said:


> Can you differentiat between these two with your biased eyes?- can you?-
> For your likes anything Muslim but non Shia is a Wahhabi-



with pleasure start reading it here

http://www.defence.pk/forums/national-political-issues/260929-hijacking-faith-how-extremist-deobandi-ideology-rules-barelvi-major.html

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## Sedqal

Cheetah786 said:


> with pleasure start reading it here
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/national-political-issues/260929-hijacking-faith-how-extremist-deobandi-ideology-rules-barelvi-major.html



This article is factually incorrect

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## Azizam

Devil Soul said:


> from tribune.com.pk comments



My friend, stop this USA nonsense. This has nothing to do with US and US has been an ally of Morsi. Funny thing is, both sides blame USA. Anti-Morsi supporters blame USA for not interfering and pro-Morsi supporters blame USA because of conspiracy theories.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Syrian Lion said:


> Alqaeda which are....
> 
> enough with your BS... Syrians are killed because of the west and their puppets who send weapon, which will only add more bloodshed... not a GCC puppet ever called for peace...



Puppet state  

Dude, KSA is too dangerous to play with

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## al-Hasani

Yzd Khalifa said:


> We will shoot the terrorists, forget about Bahrain, trust me you can't help it.



The question should rather be when the toothless and harmless Persians/Iranians will rise up and remove their fake Wannabe-Arab Mullah's that rule from Qom and Mashhad - ironically both cities founded by Arabs.

It's not in their blood to rise up to the occasions like us Arabs who revolt whenever we feel like that. Hence why non-Persians in Iran had a field day conquering/invading/settling or even ruling all of Iran.

Should we sponsor a Free Iranian army or do the Mullah's have too many zombies to rely on? Last they tried even women were gunned down in daylight and people were stabbed/shoot by Basjis or what the hell their name is who were driving past on motorbikes.

At least I heard that some Iranian Arabs were protesting and damaging posters/pictures of the satanical and heretical fake Mullah's. Maybe more minorities will wake up such as the Kurd and Baluch who have already resistance movements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afHmTUzK2YY

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## Anubis

omkar said:


> Bangladesh ??Already 20+ coups, counter coups and failed cops and counter counter coups.



YES....and the longest serving dictator lasted 7(compare to other dictators) years before WE the PEOPLE forced him out of power.The coups happened in the first 20 years of our creation from a bloody war and genocide.


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## BLACKEAGLE

*Egyptians in Jordan celebrating ousting MB:*

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## Devil Soul

Morsi being escorted away

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## Thəorətic Muslim

al-Hasani said:


> Very happy that our fellow Muslim and Arab/Semitic brothers and sisters in Egypt have conducted a relatively peaceful regime change. Let us hope that the new constitution will be approved by the vast majority, that all parties of Egypt will reach a consensus and that the MB will not be isolated since they represent nearly 50% of the Egyptian people and it could be very dangerous to totally exclude them from power.
> Egypt faces extremely many problems and people should unite on improving ALL of Egypt and not just stick to their own ideological dreams.
> Anyway we need a stable Egypt in the Arab world and we, at least those in KSA trust our neighbors across the Red Sea to do the right things especially the Egyptian military whom we have had tremendous relations with for decades and just conducted a big military exercise in Hejaz together with our Pakistani brothers and sisters.
> Oh, King Abdullah of KSA just congratulated the Egyptian people and Egypt with their choice and the new interim-president.
> Saudi king congratulates Egypt's new interim president - Alarabiya.net English | Front Page
> KSA being the biggest Arab economy will surely help our brothers and sisters and neighbors across the Red Sea if Egypt wishes.
> Qatar is annoying the whole Arab world.



Your very happy that a democratically elected government has fallen? By a Coup? Sorry, Generals telling Morsi to leave since there are a couple of thousand protesters in Tahrir? 

What if protesters occupied Riyadh? Would you support the Military telling the House of Saud to leave? And hold democratic elections in Saudi Arabia? 

There were #Occupy protests in London, Rome, All over the US did the military's of these nations tell the President or Prime Minister "You have 48 hours or else"? No these Militaries are civilized. 

The Egyptian Military didnt ****** about having more powers under the new Constitution. The only reason Morsi would have given them the power would be to get them on his side. We'll find out how much power the military wants with the new constitution. 

I seem recall something similar trying to happen in Bahrain only to be squashed by Saudi, Qatari and UAE troops. I dont blame the troops as they were just following orders.

Good to see you support the Muslim "Umma" even though we all know at heart it's pretty much dead with everyone caring more about power or money than Islam.

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## Anubis

Anybody know Bassem Youssef??


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## al-Hasani

Th&#601;or&#601;tic Muslim;4483181 said:


> Your very happy that a democratically elected government has fallen? By a Coup? Sorry, Generals telling Morsi to leave since there are a couple of thousand protesters in Tahrir?
> 
> What if protesters occupied Riyadh? Would you support the Military telling the House of Saud to leave? And hold democratic elections in Saudi Arabia?
> 
> There were #Occupy protests in London, Rome, All over the US did the military's of these nations tell the President or Prime Minister "You have 48 hours or else"? No these Militaries are civilized.
> 
> The Egyptian Military didnt ****** about having more powers under the new Constitution. The only reason Morsi would have given them the power would be to get them on his side. We'll find out how much power the military wants with the new constitution.
> 
> I seem recall something similar trying to happen in Bahrain only to be squashed by Saudi, Qatari and UAE troops. I dont blame the troops as they were just following orders.
> 
> Good to see you support the Muslim "Umma" even though we all know at heart it's pretty much dead with everyone caring more about power or money than Islam.



If most Saudis were against the Al-Saud family (they are not) then why not? If 1/3 of Saudi Arabia's population went out and demanded change and if the Al-Saud were as bad rulers as the MB (which they are not - KSA is the biggest ecnomy in the Arab world and only growing on all fronts just as all of KSA) then sure, I would support their ousting. Already stated many times that the day they do something similar to what the Child-Murderer in Syria is doing then I hope and pray to Allah (swt) that we will do jihad against them and that Muslim Arabs and non-Muslim Arabs from across the world will come to KSA and fight alongside us.

We trust the Egyptian military and the will of the Egyptian people.

This has nothing to do with a "Ummah". The MB are dangerous people. Just see what they tried to do in Jordan. We do not trust that organization. We do not need a organization named "Muslim Brotherhood". We are all Muslims or nearly all. Especially us Arabs on the Arabian Peninsula.

There is no need for a Muslim Brotherhood in KSA, Yemen or other Arab countries.

The Muslim Brotherhood is a Egyptian organization.

I respect others opinion but just remember that Egypt will remain a Muslim country and by far the vast majority of all Egyptians will remain practicing Muslims. Islam will continue to play a big role in the daily life of Egyptians and in the politics. But let the Egyptians chose themselves.

I also said that the MB need to be included in a future dialog since they have a LARGE support in Egypt. Isolating them would create a huge problem and a possible civil war/political conflict.

Let them mature and find a solution that can make as many Egyptians happy as possible.

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## Sedqal

Th&#601;or&#601;tic Muslim;4483181 said:


> Your very happy that a democratically elected government has fallen? By a Coup? Sorry, Generals telling Morsi to leave since there are a couple of thousand protesters in Tahrir?
> 
> What if protesters occupied Riyadh? Would you support the Military telling the House of Saud to leave? And hold democratic elections in Saudi Arabia?
> 
> There were #Occupy protests in London, Rome, All over the US did the military's of these nations tell the President or Prime Minister "You have 48 hours or else"? No these Militaries are civilized.
> 
> The Egyptian Military didnt ****** about having more powers under the new Constitution. The only reason Morsi would have given them the power would be to get them on his side. We'll find out how much power the military wants with the new constitution.
> 
> I seem recall something similar trying to happen in Bahrain only to be squashed by Saudi, Qatari and UAE troops. I dont blame the troops as they were just following orders.
> 
> Good to see you support the Muslim "Umma" even though we all know at heart it's pretty much dead with everyone caring more about power or money than Islam.



Anyone with half a brain realizes that ousting an elected Govt in this manner will only create more trouble in Egypt and everyone is happy for their own reasons. Funny how both Saudis and Iranis are cheering for this event as MB was not dancing on their tunes. 

Precisely the reason why Pakistan should defang Irani and Saudi groups in Pakistan and focus on Indonesia and Malaysia both functional societies.

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## JonAsad

al-Hasani said:


> If most Saudis were against the Al-Saud family (they are not) then why not? If 1/3 of Saudi Arabia's population went out and demanded change and if the Al-Saud were as bad rulers as the MB (which they are not - KSA is the biggest ecnomy in the Arab world and only growing on all fronts just as all of KSA) then sure, I would support their ousting. Already stated many times that the day they do something similar to what the Child-Murderer in Syria is doing then I hope and pray to Allah (swt) that we will do jihad against them and that *Muslim Arabs and non-Muslim Arabs* from across the world will come to KSA and fight alongside us.
> 
> We trust the Egyptian military and the will of the Egyptian people.
> 
> This has nothing to do with a "Ummah". The MB are dangerous people. Just see what they tried to do in Jordan. We do not trust that organization. We do not need organization named "Muslim Brotherhood". We are all Muslims or nearly all. Especially us Arabs on the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> There is no need for a Muslim Brotherhood in KSA, Yemen or other Arab countries.
> 
> The Muslim Brotherhood is a Egyptian organization.



You have some wierd sense for allies-


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## al-Hasani

JonAsad said:


> You have some wierd sense for allies-



Why? A legitimate Jihad does not care about nationalities. You don't think that Muslims from across the world would come to KSA if the rulers suddenly started to carpet bomb whole cities, villages or Allah (swt) forbid Makkah or Madinah? Of course they would. Especially if they fought injustice.

Anyway this is a stupid discussion since that will never happen in KSA. So no need to discuss it. But the people will always be the most important thing like in every country.


----------



## JonAsad

al-Hasani said:


> Why? A legitimate Jihad does not care about nationalities. You don't think that Muslims from across the world would come to KSA if the rulers suddenly started to carpet bomb whole cities, villages or Allah (swt) forbid Makkah or Madinah? Of course they would. Especially if they fought injustice.
> 
> Anyway this is a stupid discussion since that will never happen in KSA. So no need to discuss it. But the people will always be the most important thing like in every country.



i was hinting towards why Muslim Arabs and Non Muslim Arabs? And why not Non Arab Muslims?-


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## Thəorətic Muslim

al-Hasani said:


> If most Saudis were against the Al-Saud family (they are not) then why not? If 1/3 of Saudi Arabia's population went out and demanded change and if the Al-Saud were as bad rulers as the MB (which they are not - KSA is the biggest ecnomy in the Arab world and only growing on all fronts just as all of KSA) then sure, I would support their ousting. Already stated many times that the day they do something similar to what the Child-Murderer in Syria is doing then I hope and pray to Allah (swt) that we will do jihad against them ....... .
> 
> We trust the Egyptian military and the will of the Egyptian people.
> 
> The Muslim Brotherhood is a Egyptian organization.



The Above is what I thanked you on.

Only citizens of a country can fight for what is right, no outsider should. Because only then will you realize how important freedom is and how hard you had to fight for it to achieve it. Moral support is another matter. 

Some clarification is that the Morsi can't just get the Egyptian Economy going again by flipping a electrical switch. the vast Majority of Egypt's economy is Tourism and that took a great hit with the Tahrir Square Revolution. That and the decline of aid to Egypt. 

Not to mention the boast in the budget of the Military.

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## al-Hasani

JonAsad said:


> i was hinting towards why Muslim Arabs and Non Muslim Arabs? And why not Non Arab Muslims?-



LOL, my fault. I wanted to write non-Arab Muslims. I thought it became clear what I meant in my reply when I wrote "*You don't think that Muslims from across the world* would come to KSA if the rulers suddenly started to carpet bomb whole cities, villages or Allah (swt) forbid Makkah or Madinah? Of course they would. Especially if they fought injustice."

Sorry for the misunderstanding nevertheless.

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## BLACKEAGLE

MB in Jordan is pissed off: 

http://www.ammonnews.net/img/big/201373233RN112.jpeg






.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


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## mahatir

RiasatKhan said:


> Anybody know Bassem Youssef??



yup , he played a great role in Turning Egyptians against political islam for good , as I said several types before the Ummah and Muslim card does not work with Egyptians . 

Good for Egypt , at last one Arab country is moving out of the middle ages .



BLACKEAGLE said:


> MB in Jordan is pissed off:
> 
> http://www.ammonnews.net/img/big/201373233RN112.jpeg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .



The only thing that threatens Jordan stability is the MB , with them out of Egypt now they are dead for good in other Arab countries 

congrats .

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## al-Hasani

Sedqal said:


> Anyone with half a brain realizes that ousting an elected Govt in this manner will only create more trouble in Egypt and everyone is happy for their own reasons. Funny how both Saudis and Iranis are cheering for this event as MB was not dancing on their tunes.
> 
> Precisely the reason why Pakistan should defang Irani and Saudi groups in Pakistan and focus on Indonesia and Malaysia both functional societies.



Let me repeat myself. I saw similar comments from some members during the Turkey protests. Turkey will not stop being a Muslim country just because many protested against Erdogan. He does not have monopoly on Islam nor has Mursi. The thing is that when so many people like in Egypt turn up and the military take action then something is horribly wrong. Let the Egyptians improve their constitution, let them find a political consensus from all the various political groups and let them deal with their own political games.

Do you think that Egypt just chased to be an majority Muslim country overnight? Mursi and others will come and go but the people and Egypt will remain.

Stop thinking about a Ummah when Pakistan, KSA and other countries have their own issues to solve before we can think in a greater and wider picture. At least as governments. As individuals and fellow Muslims we should consider each others as brothers regardless of origins.

Can you follow me?

Not sure what this has to do with Iran. Nothing in reality. Egypt is an Arab country, majority Sunni Muslim and Iran has no influence in Egypt nor are they even a neighbor. Greece and Cyprus or even Turkey are located much closer. I struggle to see what KSA has to do with Egypt as well in this context other than being a fellow Arab, Sunni Muslim and neighboring country just across the Red Sea. In terms of the current protests - nothing really. Internal Egyptian issue.



> If most Saudis were against the Al-Saud family (they are not) then why not? If 1/3 of Saudi Arabia's population went out and demanded change and if the Al-Saud were as bad rulers as the MB (which they are not - KSA is the biggest ecnomy in the Arab world and only growing on all fronts just as all of KSA) then sure, I would support their ousting. Already stated many times that the day they do something similar to what the Child-Murderer in Syria is doing then I hope and pray to Allah (swt) that we will do jihad against them and that Muslim Arabs and non-Muslim Arabs from across the world will come to KSA and fight alongside us.
> 
> We trust the Egyptian military and the will of the Egyptian people.
> 
> This has nothing to do with a "Ummah". The MB are dangerous people. Just see what they tried to do in Jordan. We do not trust that organization. We do not need a organization named "Muslim Brotherhood". We are all Muslims or nearly all. Especially us Arabs on the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> There is no need for a Muslim Brotherhood in KSA, Yemen or other Arab countries.
> 
> The Muslim Brotherhood is a Egyptian organization.
> 
> I respect others opinion but just remember that Egypt will remain a Muslim country and by far the vast majority of all Egyptians will remain practicing Muslims. Islam will continue to play a big role in the daily life of Egyptians and in the politics. But let the Egyptians chose themselves.
> 
> I also said that the MB need to be included in a future dialog since they have a LARGE support in Egypt. Isolating them would create a huge problem and a possible civil war/political conflict.
> 
> Let them mature and find a solution that can make as many Egyptians happy as possible.


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## gambit

Th&#601;or&#601;tic Muslim;4483220 said:


> The Above is what I thanked you on.
> 
> Only citizens of a country can fight for what is right, no outsider should. Because only then will you realize how important freedom is and how hard you had to fight for it to achieve it. Moral support is another matter.
> 
> Some clarification is that the *Morsi can't just get the Egyptian Economy going again by flipping a electrical switch.* the vast Majority of Egypt's economy is Tourism and that took a great hit with the Tahrir Square Revolution. That and the decline of aid to Egypt.
> 
> Not to mention the boast in the budget of the Military.


All the more reasons why Morsi should have focused on the economy. People are the same the world over when it comes to the economy. At the ground level in any country larger or smaller than its neighbors, businesses understand -- *INSTINCTIVELY* -- that the larger economy they are under cannot be steered like a race car but more like sailboat or a yacht or in the case of the US, an ark of a vessel. Slow and ponderous, but still visibly changing course. That is what people expect -- visibility. If there are problems along the changing of direction, people will understand and there will be defenders of the current polices as well as oppositions. Oppositions to economic policies would have been nowhere as vocal or revolutionary as what we are seeing today. Do not underestimate the patience and generosity of business people.

But instead of doing what is *OBVIOUSLY* necessary, Morsi acted the way any hardcore Islamist would -- placate the theocrats. Egypt be damned.

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## fallstuff

Its a sad day for represantative form of Govt in ME. Obama could do more in keeping the Egyptian military in the barracks.

Military just strangled a budding democracy.

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## pkuser2k12

*5 dead, 200 injured in clashes between security forces, Morsi supporters *







At least five people have been killed in clashes between Egyptian security forces and supporters of ousted President Mohamed Morsi, officials say. 


PressTV - 5 dead, 200 injured in clashes between security forces, Morsi supporters​


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## fallstuff

Very bad move by the military. This is a sad day in ME.


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

al-Hasani said:


> Very happy that our fellow Muslim and Arab/Semitic brothers and sisters in Egypt have conducted a relatively peaceful regime change. Let us hope that the new constitution will be approved by the vast majority, that all parties of Egypt will reach a consensus and that the MB will not be isolated since they represent nearly 50% of the Egyptian people and it could be very dangerous to totally exclude them from power.
> 
> Egypt faces extremely many problems and people should unite on improving ALL of Egypt and not just stick to their own ideological dreams.
> 
> Anyway we need a stable Egypt in the Arab world and we, at least those in KSA trust our neighbors across the Red Sea to do the right things especially the Egyptian military whom we have had tremendous relations with for decades and just conducted a big military exercise in Hejaz together with our Pakistani brothers and sisters.
> 
> Oh, King Abdullah of KSA just congratulated the Egyptian people and Egypt with their choice and the new interim-president.
> 
> 
> Saudi king congratulates Egypt's new interim president - Alarabiya.net English | Front Page
> 
> KSA being the biggest Arab economy will surely help our brothers and sisters and neighbors across the Red Sea if Egypt wishes.
> 
> Qatar is annoying the whole Arab world.



bro, none of any reason could legitimate that military coup againist an democratically elected government which ruled just for one year...
bro, it is not like the problem of an offended kid that you could pacify him by giving some sweets..MB is the largest and most well organized politic and socail front of Egyptian...Without MB nothing can be done well..Without MB nothing could run on its right path...

Now,im very anxiety about the future of Egypt...politic and economic turmoils will increase and problem will multiply..
after toppling dictator Mobarak i was hopeful about Egypt's new role that could contribute staability and peace to ME

What is plan B?...if MB win next election then another military coup should be conducted again??

That Military coup may has high risk of breaking morale of FSA....cause MB is the largest largest opponent group of Syria as well..

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## pkuser2k12

*5 dead, 200 injured in clashes between security forces, Morsi supporters *







At least five people have been killed in clashes between Egyptian security forces and supporters of ousted President Mohamed Morsi, officials say. 


PressTV - 5 dead, 200 injured in clashes between security forces, Morsi supporters​


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## fallstuff

SUPARCO said:


> One step forward for Egypt and two steps backwards.
> 
> Now that some Egyptians have allowed Army to topple a democratically elected Government, the Egyptian Army will be back again and again whenever they feel like it.
> 
> Just ask our Bangladeshi brothers - 27 military coups in its 42 year history.
> 
> All the best people.



I despise the Hasina government in Bangladesh. Many BD posters on PDF share similar disapproval. However, I strongly oppose any move by the military to take down the Hasina government.


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## spiderkiller

al-Hasani said:


> The question should rather be when the toothless and harmless Persians/Iranians will rise up and remove their fake Wannabe-Arab Mullah's that rule from Qom and Mashhad - ironically both cities founded by Arabs.
> 
> It's not in their blood to rise up to the occasions like us Arabs who revolt whenever we feel like that. Hence why non-Persians in Iran had a field day conquering/invading/settling or even ruling all of Iran.



hey man you are damn funny.   

i bet you have not even saw a university outside of your so called ksa. 
in urbanism science mashhad has about 2000 years of urban construction and foundation. 
and its even more funny that you say arabs know how to rise against their governments 
dude you got to be a comedian. we were those who stood against greek government 2000 years ago after the occupation of alexander. we were those who stood against arabs and mongols who had all the power in the country and we beat them and made our own government. come closer in the last 400 years we stood against all those british and russan puppet kings like of yours today and we won in all those revolutions. mashroote and tanbakoo and others are those revolutions. and in 1357 we stood against the king which was a fcuking american puppet. dude we have a very rich history in fighting against dictators not like you all arabs who sleep for 14 hours and bend to all kind of american and british politicians. actually you better don't compare yourself with persian people because we have at least 1000 years more civilization and history of fighting against dictators than you. no offense of course just wanted to remind you your position.


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## JUBA

Best of luck to the Egyptian people in electing a new government, even though i think they should take it easy in all these revolutions 


*And for this pleasant occasion i would like to do a little comparison between an army that care and protect his people and an army (or more like a pack of mercenaries) that kill their own people and destroy their own country to the degree of using even ballistic missiles with chemical warheads on a defenseless population simply for wanting to overthrow a savage criminal dictator which is supported by also a savage and criminal countries just like him. Egyptian Army vs Assad mercenaries.*



Egyptian Army:


























Assad Mercenaries:

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## Doritos11

fallstuff said:


> I despise the Hasina government in Bangladesh. Many BD posters on PDF share similar disapproval. However, I strongly oppose any move by the military to take down the Hasina government.



They have no choice, millions of people on the streets, if they do nothing these millions will not simply go home, riot police cannot control them.


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## pkuser2k12

*Egypt arrests 2 top MB leaders​*






Egyptian security forces have detained two senior leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood close to ousted President Mohamed Morsi, security officials say. 




after so many years of facing jails MB is again thrown in prison very bad result is awaiting if this continues.they should at least be allowed to contest freely after their government is thrown unconstitutionally.

PressTV - Egypt arrests 2 top MB leaders​


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## al-Hasani

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> bro, none of any reason could legitimate that military coup againist an democratically elected government which ruled just for one year...
> bro, it is not like the problem of an offended kid that you could pacify him by giving some sweets..MB is the largest and most well organized politic and socail front of Egyptian...Without MB nothing can be done well..Without MB nothing could run on its right path...
> 
> Now,im very anxiety about the future of Egypt...politic and economic turmoils will increase and problem will multiply..
> after toppling dictator Mobarak i was hopeful about Egypt's new role that could contribute staability and peace to ME
> 
> What is B plan ?...if MB win next election then another military coup should be conducted again??
> 
> That Military coup may has high risk of breaking morale of FSA....cause MB is the largest largest opponent group of Syria as well..



But what does that matter when it turns out that they are trying to make changes that the majority of Egyptians are against or when nearly half of the Egyptian population turn up in public to demonstrated against them? So-called democratically elected regimes can also get toppled during their term if they make themselves unpopular which clearly happened in Egypt if the peoples voice is to be taken as sincere.

What would your solution otherwise be? For the protests to continue in all eternity and cause more problems for Egypt?

As I said, if you read my post, then all political parties in Egypt need to be included in the "new Egypt" and they should jointly make the new constitutions and try to work together and not only care about the power.

The problems Egypt faces now would be the same regardless of the rulers, bro. The problems will not disappear. Mursi or no Mursi.

The future only Allah (swt) knows and let the Egyptians decide themselves. It is a internal Egyptian issue after all.

But yes, it is worrying and can turn ugly. It is in the hands of the Egyptians only to solve their own mess. We can only try to help if they want our help.

Well the Egyptian military has basically ruled the country for 60 years since the kingdom was toppled. Historically most Egyptians were not politically active. Vast majority of the people were illeterates or poor as many still are. It first really started to change under Nasser and the Arab nationalism period.

Now people are getting more and more politically conscious which is only a good thing. They are a new "democracy" as you wrote in another thread and I thanked your post because you were right. Let them learn the lessons the hard way as you (Turkey) and others have learnt. It is a learning process. 

No, FSA will not lose anything. Don't worry bro. We (GCC, Sunni Arab world and Turkey) will not allow that to happen.

Oh, as Muslims we should not worry. Egypt and Egyptians are still Muslims (vast majority). Nothing has changed overnight. Remember that Mursi or the MB has no patent on Islam nor are they perfect. They are a political party not clerics. A Egyptian organization moreover.

*To the grandson of Hitler:*

Open some history book and don't act like a phantast. Everyone knows how spineless Iranians are. You have been ruled by fake Wannabe-Arab Mullah's for 35 years and barely had any uprisings. Foreigners, Arabs included, have conquered you plenty of times and had a field day. Changed your whole cultural, religious and social setup.

Let alone all the non-Persian ruling families that have ruled you from the Safavids to the Qajar to the Pahlavis who were peasants and one of them (a officer) took the throne of "Shah" (LOL) and his son (the Officer-Son as I like to call him) was the last one before your heretical and satanical fake Wannabe-Arab Mullah's started to rule you and since 1979 they have ruled you good, I must say.


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## genmirajborgza786

hinduguy said:


> sorry, I dont believe you.. middle east is like this just because it has always been so.. its not like they were democracy and people started to prefer autoritarianism..
> most countries were like that in last 100 years.. just that ME people never were in a position to decide... one day they will...



well thought out post 

you are a mature poster keep it up & don't fall for baits 

regards
Borgza

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## livingdead

genmirajborgza786 said:


> well thought out post
> 
> you are a mature poster keep it up & don't fall for baits
> 
> regards
> Borgza



I prefer to keep my troll personality separate from mature one..

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## iranigirl2

@JUBA you just hate Assad because he is an Alawite. 

Egyptian army wasn't very nice in 2011 and killed over 1,000 people .


.Egyptian army killing male and female citizens MUST SEE !!!!! - YouTube


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aILP5BCWjY4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPV6i_yHgP0


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## al-Hasani

iranigirl2 said:


> @JUBA you just hate Assad because he is an Alawite.
> 
> Egyptian army wasn't very nice in 2011. over 1,000 people died in in 2011.
> 
> 
> .Egyptian army killing male and female citizens MUST SEE !!!!! - YouTube
> 
> Eyewitnesses to the Coptic Christians Massacre by Egyptian Muslim army-Maspiro P-1 - YouTube



More nonsense from the Baha'i (something sect) and *PissTV* addict.

Since when did the Egyptian army kill 1000 Copts in 2011? One of your many hallucinations *IraniMale2*?


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## fallstuff

Doritos11 said:


> They have no choice, millions of people on the streets, if they do nothing these millions will not simply go home, riot police cannot control them.


.
Military just overturned the will of the people. Only the people of Egypt should have the option of replacing Morsi


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## iranigirl2

al-Hasani said:


> More nonsense from the Baha'i (something sect) and *PissTV* addict.
> 
> Since when did the Egyptian army kill 1000 Copts in 2011? One of your many hallucinations *IraniMale2*?



*
let me show you an example in slow motion.*


The Egyptian Army Rip a woman clothe and killed her in broad day light - YouTube


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## al-Hasani

iranigirl2 said:


> *
> let me show you an example in slow motion.*
> 
> 
> The Egyptian Army Rip a woman clothe and killed her in broad day light - YouTube



Show me a neutral source that says that the Egyptian military killed 1000 Copts back in 2011, will you? Posting Youtube clips is not going to help you.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

I think it's a good outcome for Egypt.

They need a good technocratic leadership that will address the socio-economic problems and take the country forward, especially economically speaking. This guy was just issuing statements and his recent address was very provocative and with harsh language. 

I congratulate the Egyptian people for being ONE NATION and mobilizing to fight for their cause. Some disagree with me on this - but i believe that a religious agenda alone is empty. What matters are the policies that actually bring CHANGE and empower people and improve their lives.


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## iranigirl2

*President Obama: U.S. "deeply concerned" by Egypt military's move to oust president, suspend constitution. *


Obama is threatening they will cut billion dollars in aid.




*Here is the full statement, released moments ago by the White House:*

"As I have said since the Egyptian revolution, the United States supports a set of core principles, including opposition to violence, protection of universal human rights, and reform that meets the legitimate aspirations of the people. The United States does not support particular individuals or political parties, but we are committed to the democratic process and respect for the rule of law. Since the current unrest in Egypt began, we have called on all parties to work together to address the legitimate grievances of the Egyptian people, in accordance with the democratic process, and without recourse to violence or the use of force. 

"The United States is monitoring the very fluid situation in Egypt, and we believe that ultimately the future of Egypt can only be determined by the Egyptian people. Nevertheless, we are deeply concerned by the decision of the Egyptian Armed Forces to remove President Morsy and suspend the Egyptian constitution. I now call on the Egyptian military to move quickly and responsibly to return full authority back to a democratically elected civilian government as soon as possible through an inclusive and transparent process, and to avoid any arbitrary arrests of President Morsy and his supporters. Given today&#8217;s developments, I have also directed the relevant departments and agencies to review the implications under U.S. law for our assistance to the government of Egypt. 

"The United States continues to believe firmly that the best foundation for lasting stability in Egypt is a democratic political order with participation from all sides and all political parties &#8211; secular and religious, civilian and military. During this uncertain period, we expect the military to ensure that the rights of all Egyptian men and women are protected, including the right to peaceful assembly, due process, and free and fair trials in civilian courts. Moreover, the goal of any political process should be a government that respects the rights of all people, majority and minority; that institutionalizes the checks and balances upon which democracy depends; and that places the interests of the people above party or faction. The voices of all those who have protested peacefully must be heard &#8211; including those who welcomed today&#8217;s developments, and those who have supported President Morsy. In the interim, I urge all sides to avoid violence and come together to ensure the lasting restoration of Egypt&#8217;s democracy. 

"No transition to democracy comes without difficulty, but in the end it must stay true to the will of the people. An honest, capable and representative government is what ordinary Egyptians seek and what they deserve. The longstanding partnership between the United States and Egypt is based on shared interests and values, and we will continue to work with the Egyptian people to ensure that Egypt&#8217;s transition to democracy succeeds."


http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/03/egypt-live-blog/


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## Doritos11

fallstuff said:


> .
> Military just overturned the will of the people. Only the people of Egypt should have the option of replacing Morsi



The millions on the street are the people.
Look I dont defend any party I dont follow their politics, but I think they did a good job.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

RuheTag said:


> Egyptian army takes over state TV as military, opposition heads meet
> 
> Egypt braces for showdown: Army vehicles surround state TV building
> 
> I hope Pakistani Generals learn something from this.
> 
> Coups are back..
> 
> Lets prepare another plane for Mian Saheb.



now isnt the right time, in Pakistan's case.

Pak-Mil wants nothing to do with politics - unless things got to a breaking point the way they were in Egypt just 24-48 hours ago.


----------



## al-Hasani

iranigirl2 said:


> *
> let me show you an example in slow motion.*
> 
> The Egyptian Army Rip a woman clothe and killed her in broad day light - YouTube



Show me a neutral source that says that the Egyptian military killed 1000 Copts back in 2011, will you? Posting Youtube clips is not going to help you. Until then that is just a pathetic claim that only* PissTV* addicts like you would make.

You are a serial phantast.

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## Aegis DDG

gambit said:


> All the more reasons why Morsi should have focused on the economy. People are the same the world over when it comes to the economy. At the ground level in any country larger or smaller than its neighbors, businesses understand -- *INSTINCTIVELY* -- that the larger economy they are under cannot be steered like a race car but more like sailboat or a yacht or in the case of the US, an ark of a vessel. Slow and ponderous, but still visibly changing course. That is what people expect -- visibility. If there are problems along the changing of direction, people will understand and there will be defenders of the current polices as well as oppositions. Oppositions to economic policies would have been nowhere as vocal or revolutionary as what we are seeing today. Do not underestimate the patience and generosity of business people.
> 
> But instead of doing what is *OBVIOUSLY* necessary, Morsi acted the way any hardcore Islamist would -- placate the theocrats. Egypt be damned.



Arab are not like East Asians, Turks, Americans and Indians. They rarely focus on their economy (unless it's commodities) and are too political.


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## Argus Panoptes

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> now isnt the right time, in Pakistan's case.
> 
> *Pak-Mil wants nothing to do with politics - unless things got to a breaking point* the way they were in Egypt just 24-48 hours ago.



Isn't that the very definition of military overlordship since they decide who should or should not remain in power?


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## True pakistani 22

What happening in egypt Again Man


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

al-Hasani said:


> But what does that matter when it turns out that they are trying to make changes that the majority of Egyptians are against or when nearly half of the Egyptian population turn up in public to demonstrated against them? So-called democratically elected regimes can also get toppled during their term if they make themselves unpopular which clearly happened in Egypt if the peoples voice is to be taken as sincere.
> 
> What would your solution otherwise be? For the protests to continue in all eternity and cause more problems for Egypt?
> 
> As I said, if you read my post, then all political parties in Egypt need to be included in the "new Egypt" and they should jointly make the new constitutions and try to work together and not only care about the power.
> 
> The problems Egypt faces now would be the same regardless of the rulers, bro. The problems will not disappear. Mursi or no Mursi.
> 
> The future only Allah (swt) knows and let the Egyptians decide themselves. It is a internal Egyptian issue after all.
> 
> But yes, it is worrying and can turn ugly. It is in the hands of the Egyptians only to solve their own mess. We can only try to help if they want our help.
> 
> Well the Egyptian military has basically ruled the country for 60 years since the kingdom was toppled. Historically most Egyptians were not politically active. Vast majority of the people were illeterates or poor as many still are. It first really started to change under Nasser and the Arab nationalism period.
> 
> Now people are getting more and more politically conscious which is only a good thing. They are a new "democracy" as you wrote in another thread and I thanked your post because you were right. Let them learn the lessons the hard way as you (Turkey) and others have learnt. It is a learning process.
> 
> No, FSA will not lose anything. Don't worry bro. We (GCC, Sunni Arab world and Turkey) will not allow that to happen.
> 
> Oh, as Muslims we should not worry. Egypt and Egyptians are still Muslims (vast majority). Nothing has changed overnight. Remember that Mursi or the MB has no patent on Islam nor are they perfect. They are a political party not clerics. A Egyptian organization moreover.
> 
> *To the grandson of Hitler:*
> 
> Open some history book and don't act like a phantast. Everyone knows how spineless Iranians are. You have been ruled by fake Wannabe-Arab Mullah's for 35 years and barely had any uprisings. Foreigners, Arabs included, have conquered you plenty of times and had a field day. Changed your whole cultural, religious and social setup.
> 
> Let alone all the non-Persian ruling families that have ruled you from the Safavids to the Qajar to the Pahlavis who were peasants and one of them (a officer) took the throne of "Shah" (LOL) and his son (the Officer-Son as I like to call him) was the last one before your heretical and satanical fake Wannabe-Arab Mullah's started to rule you and since 1979 they have ruled you good, I must say.



if itis true that majority of Egyptian were unpleased with MB they should have waited till next election..If they have managed to endure period of 3 men for 65 years they should have endured a period of an democratically elected government as well.
What pity that Egyptians being incited from outsides and people got wind..

There is no guarantee of an mutual compromising of all politic circles on making a new constitutions...

Ensallaah i will be mistaken...and you will be right..

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## al-Hasani

Aegis DDG said:


> Arab are not like East Asians, Turks, Americans and Indians. They rarely focus on their economy (unless it's commodities) and are too political.



Funny considering that many Arabs (non-Royals) are among the richest persons in the world including the world's richest man - Carlos Slim Helu that is a son of Lebanese Christian Arabs.

In terms of business then Arabs are extremely competent and have been that since ancient times. Whenever Arabs lived outside of the Arab world they were very high in the social ladder in old times.

Funny considering that the GCC is the richest area in the world pr capita while the vast majority of East Asians and Indians (especially) live below the poverty line.

Comparing Americans makes no sense either nor actually Chinese or Indians. Also grouping all Arabs together makes no sense either since some Arab countries/areas are extremely rich while others are less so even though they can be neighboring countries.

The claim of Arabs being more interested in politics than must I also can't recognize.


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## JUBA

iranigirl2 said:


> @JUBA you just hate Assad because he is an Alawite.
> 
> Egyptian army wasn't very nice in 2011 and killed over 1,000 people




When the Egyptian army start air raiding over Egyptian cities just like Asshead mercenaries, and level Egyptian cities with SCUD missiles also like Asshead, and Egyptian tanks lay sieges on populated Egyptian cities, and all of this happen after half of the Egyptian army defect, and the military start counting on foreign mercenaries such as hezbollah and Iraqi militias to do their dirty job then you can come and tell me how cruel the Egyptian army is.

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## fallstuff

Doritos11 said:


> The millions on the street are the people.
> Lok I dont defend any party I dont follow their politics, but I think they did a good job.



Well you take to the streets when all the other avenues are shut down such as election, judiciary. Did he declare himslf the dictator of Egypt? 

You just have to learn to be patient.


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## al-Hasani

JUBA said:


> When the Egyptian army start air raiding over Egyptian cities just like Asshead mercenaries, and level Egyptian cities with SCUD missiles also like Asshead, and Egyptian tanks lay sieges on populated Egyptian cities, and all of this happen after half of the Egyptian army defect, and the military start counting on foreign mercenaries such as hezbollah and Iraqi militias to do their dirty job then you can come and tell me how cruel the Egyptian army is.

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## iranigirl2

JUBA said:


> When the Egyptian army start air raiding over Egyptian cities just like Asshead mercenaries, and level Egyptian cities with SCUD missiles also like Asshead, and Egyptian tanks lay sieges on populated Egyptian cities, and all of this happen after half of the Egyptian army defect, and the military start counting on foreign mercenaries such as hezbollah and Iraqi militias to do their dirty job then you can come and tell me how cruel the Egyptian army is.



Your a radical. Ive seen your posts on Live leak. You would probably behead me because you think Im a shia. I will not converse with someone like you.


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## Yeti

iranigirl2 said:


> Indian government keeps lovely Shias safe from Salafi crazy A s s HOLEs! Thank You India!




We got your back girl! 







Sorry could not help myself


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## iranigirl2

*With Morsi toppled, Egypt remains US strategic worry and destination for aid*


No matter who is in charge in Egypt, the nation of 85 million people remains a strategic concern for the United States. And although the U.S. has poured more than $70 billion in military and economic aid into Egypt since 1948, the U.S. government&#8217;s ability to influence outcomes there remains very limited.

The Egyptian armed forces ousted Mohammed Morsi, the country&#8217;s first democratically elected president, on Wednesday and put a temporary civilian government in his place. U.S. officials tell NBC News that prior to Morsi's ouster, Egyptian military officials assured the United States that the generals would not take long-term control of the government. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel and Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey had been in contact with their counterparts in the Egyptian military over the past week.

*Among the strategic and economic worries for the United States: Egypt maintaining its commitment to peace with Israel under the 1979 Camp David accord,* continued freedom of passage through the Suez Canal for U.S. Navy ships, unimpeded flow of oil through the SUMED pipeline, and avoidance of any catastrophe that might to cause refugee outflows to Europe.

White House officials said that in a phone call to Morsi on Monday President Barack Obama had &#8220;stressed that democracy is about more than elections; it is about ensuring that the voices of all Egyptians are heard and represented by their government.&#8221;

But even as democracy is about more than elections, governing is about more than democracy &#8212; what has been missing in Egypt is effective administration, and that in turn has held back economic reform and impeded a loan agreement with the International Monetary Fund.

For American taxpayers &#8212; especially those wary of sending more aid to foreign regimes &#8212; the latest crisis may revive their discontent. The Congressional Research Service reports that since 1979, Egypt has been the second-largest recipient, after Israel, of U.S. foreign aid.

For fiscal year 2014, Obama has requested $1.55 billion in aid to Egypt, with $1.3 billion of it in military aid.

*In a statement Wednesday, Obama called on Egypt's military to act quickly to return power to a democratically elected civilian government. He also said he had directed federal "departments and agencies to review the implications under U.S. law for our assistance to the government of Egypt."*

Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., also warned Wednesday that U.S. aid to Egypt could be in jeopardy depending on the outcome of the power shift in the country.

A CRS report said last week that in the current crisis, &#8220;Some opponents of U.S. military aid to Egypt may apply further scrutiny in the months ahead to proposed U.S. arms sales to Egypt financed by U.S. taxpayer dollars.&#8221;

The report noted that four F-16s sold to Egypt under the subsidized Foreign Military Financing program arrived there in January and another 20 F-16s are scheduled to be delivered before the end of this year.

The CRS report noted that Congress has attempted to impose conditions on U.S. aid to Egypt. Under a 2012 appropriations bill, no funds can go to Egypt until Secretary of State John Kerry certifies that Egypt is supporting a transition to civilian government and taking steps to protect individual freedom and due process of law. But the law allows the administration to waive these certifications, and Kerry did so in early May.

The latest turmoil may give new impetus to complaints from the loudest critic of U.S. aid to Egypt, Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., who had been sharply critical of Morsi. 

With Morsi toppled, Egypt remains US strategic worry and destination for aid - NBC Politics


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## Doritos11

fallstuff said:


> Well you take to the streets when all the other avenues are shut down such as election, judiciary. Did he declare himslf the dictator of Egypt?
> 
> You just have to learn to be patient.



If 50 million Americans start protesting Obama then they will not wait till his time is done, they will remove him to save the state from worse matters, this is similar.
Its better to violate law to save something instead of following law knowing the result will be far worse.


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## fallstuff

iranigirl2 said:


> *President Obama: U.S. "deeply concerned" by Egypt military's move to oust president, suspend constitution. *
> 
> 
> Obama is threatening they will cut billion dollars in aid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Here is the full statement, released moments ago by the White House:*
> 
> "As I have said since the Egyptian revolution, the United States supports a set of core principles, including opposition to violence, protection of universal human rights, and reform that meets the legitimate aspirations of the people. The United States does not support particular individuals or political parties, but we are committed to the democratic process and respect for the rule of law. Since the current unrest in Egypt began, we have called on all parties to work together to address the legitimate grievances of the Egyptian people, in accordance with the democratic process, and without recourse to violence or the use of force.
> 
> "The United States is monitoring the very fluid situation in Egypt, and we believe that ultimately the future of Egypt can only be determined by the Egyptian people. Nevertheless, we are deeply concerned by the decision of the Egyptian Armed Forces to remove President Morsy and suspend the Egyptian constitution. I now call on the Egyptian military to move quickly and responsibly to return full authority back to a democratically elected civilian government as soon as possible through an inclusive and transparent process, and to avoid any arbitrary arrests of President Morsy and his supporters. Given today&#8217;s developments, I have also directed the relevant departments and agencies to review the implications under U.S. law for our assistance to the government of Egypt.
> 
> "The United States continues to believe firmly that the best foundation for lasting stability in Egypt is a democratic political order with participation from all sides and all political parties &#8211; secular and religious, civilian and military. During this uncertain period, we expect the military to ensure that the rights of all Egyptian men and women are protected, including the right to peaceful assembly, due process, and free and fair trials in civilian courts. Moreover, the goal of any political process should be a government that respects the rights of all people, majority and minority; that institutionalizes the checks and balances upon which democracy depends; and that places the interests of the people above party or faction. The voices of all those who have protested peacefully must be heard &#8211; including those who welcomed today&#8217;s developments, and those who have supported President Morsy. In the interim, I urge all sides to avoid violence and come together to ensure the lasting restoration of Egypt&#8217;s democracy.
> 
> "No transition to democracy comes without difficulty, but in the end it must stay true to the will of the people. An honest, capable and representative government is what ordinary Egyptians seek and what they deserve. The longstanding partnership between the United States and Egypt is based on shared interests and values, and we will continue to work with the Egyptian people to ensure that Egypt&#8217;s transition to democracy succeeds."
> 
> 
> U.S. 'deeply concerned' by Morsy's ouster &#8211; This Just In - CNN.com Blogs



Obama is my homie 

!!!


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## Juice

babajees said:


> ^ Wow.. How stupid. I think you only watch BBC.
> AlArabiya TV showed MILLIONS of Morsi supporters near cairo univ (ignored by rest of media) VS thousands of protestors at tehrir square (promoted by fox, bbc).
> 
> Bye bye democracy. Welcome Army. Liberal Fascists + Israel and Americans welcome you with open arms!!
> 
> Real face of protestors at tahiri square: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=159136380939664
> 
> Morsi supporters in million, chanti Mursi Mursi Allah o Akbar: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=687019594647670&set=vb.100000189068342&type=2&theater


 Damned right! I heard that winged jooos were flying over the square eating babies.

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## livingdead

@iranigirl2 . with respect.. I dont think egytian army killed any copts or others.. they are very mindful about their role in maintaining the balance.. 1000 is a big number....


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## Aegis DDG

al-Hasani said:


> Funny considering that many Arabs (non-Royals) are among the richest persons in the world including the world's richest man - Carlos Slim Helu that is a son of Lebanese Christian Arabs.
> 
> In terms of business then Arabs are extremely competent and have been that since ancient times. Whenever Arabs lived outside of the Arab world they were very high in the social ladder in old times.
> 
> Funny considering that the GCC is the richest area in the world pr capita while the vast majority of East Asians and Indians (especially) live below the poverty line.
> 
> Comparing Americans makes no sense either nor actually Chinese or Indians. Also grouping all Arabs together makes no sense either since some Arab countries/areas are extremely rich while others are less so even though they can be neighboring countries.
> 
> The claim of Arabs being more interested in politics than must I also can't recognize.



I mentioned Commodities. They tend to have bad work ethics unlike East Asians and Jews. The Average GDP per Capita of GCC Nation would be similar to Yemen had it not been for Hydro-Carbons that was in demand. And Non-Oil/Mineral exports of Arab nations barely surpassed Finland in 2008-10. And Harvard University alone published more science journals article then GCC, Egypt and N.Africa put together. Individual entrepreneurs and millionaires don't matter in an Marco-Economic point of view. South Korea practically surpasses the Arab world and they used to export Maids to Kuwait in the 1970s/early 1980s like Philippines do today.


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## Juice

Yeti said:


> Why is the opposition refusing to sit down with Morsi also to work this out? that is another question


 Because he is a stone-age islamotard.


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## Hashshāshīn

Yzd Khalifa said:


> *They deal with our sworn enemy,* therefore, we can't trust them, period. However, Morsi is an ex-MB member as such, he doesn't raise much of a concern to us.
> 
> I wouldn't call it a fear though but rather a concern.



Iran is a bigger enemy than Israel?


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## al-Hasani

hinduguy said:


> @iranigirl2 . with respect.. I dont think egytian army killed any copts or others.. they are very mindful about their role in maintaining the balance.. 1000 is a big number....



She is a radical *PISSTV* addict that likes to make false claims every single day. A phantast in other words that is obsessed about us Arabs, Sunnis, Muslims and in particular Saudis. At the same time she claims that Iran "is not really a Middle Eastern country but more Central Asian". Which is correct BTW since Persians came to the Iranian Plateau less than 3000 years ago from their Central Asian/Kazakh steppe homeland. 
Despite all this she makes 10 new daily threads about us Arabs, Sunnis and Saudis.

The Egyptian Army never killed 1000 Copts in 2011 or people for that matter. First time I hear such a absurd claim. In short it is complete and utter nonsense and no sane person should take such a claim seriously.

Taken straight out of *PissTV's* top 10 of "most stupid and outrageous false claims".

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## iranigirl2

hinduguy said:


> @iranigirl2 . with respect.. I dont think egytian army killed any copts or others.. they are very mindful about their role in maintaining the balance.. 1000 is a big number....



*I didn't say 1000 copts died. But in 2011 over 1,000 Egyptians died in clashes with police and Army.*

Thousands of Coptic Christians took to the streets in Cairo to protest the burning of a church in Marinab and were headed towards Maspiro, where they were met with armoured personnel carrier, APCs, and hundreds of riot police and special forces. Army vehicles charged at the protesters and reports of at least 6 protesters being crushed under APCs, including one with a crushed skull, has emerged. In addition, witnesses have confirmed that military personnel were seen firing live ammunition into the protesters, while the Health Ministry confirmed that at least 20 protesters have undergone surgery for bullet wounds.[45] In total, an estimated 24 persons were killed most of whom are Copts, while numbers as high as 36 and 50 were reported, including unconfirmed reports of the death of three army soldiers. The number of wounded protesters was estimated to be 322, of whom about 250 were transported to hospitals.[46]

Inciting more unrest, messages were broadcasted on Egyptian national television urging "honest Egyptians" to take to the streets to "protect the military" from Christian protesters. As a result, hundreds of people, presumably Muslim extremists, were seen wielding clubs and machetes alongside riot police chanting "the people want to bring down the Christians", and later "Islamic, Islamic


----------



## Thəorətic Muslim

al-Hasani said:


> But what does that matter when it turns out that they are trying to make changes that the majority of Egyptians are against or when nearly half of the Egyptian population turn up in public to demonstrated against them? So-called democratically elected regimes can also get toppled during their term if they make themselves unpopular which clearly happened in Egypt if the peoples voice is to be taken as sincere.
> 
> Open some history book and don't act like a phantast. Everyone knows how spineless Iranians are. You have been ruled by fake Wannabe-Arab Mullah's for 35 years and barely had any uprisings. Foreigners, Arabs included, have conquered you plenty of times and had a field day. Changed your whole cultural, religious and social setup.
> 
> Let alone all the non-Persian ruling families that have ruled you from the Safavids to the Qajar to the Pahlavis who were peasants and one of them (a officer) took the throne of "Shah" (LOL) and his son (the Officer-Son as I like to call him) was the last one before your heretical and satanical fake Wannabe-Arab Mullah's started to rule you and since 1979 they have ruled you good, I must say.



Its not the Muslim Brotherhood's fault that they are the most active and organized. That's like saying it's Saudi Arabia's fault that they haven't created a unified Muslim nation. Come on. 

If I go and vote for the US Presidential Elections and my neighbor doesn't does he have any right to criticize what the US President does in his/ her 4 years? 

Its not the MB's fault that other groups decided to boycott the elections in 2011 or 2012. 

Lets watch this name calling. They can easily say the same to you.


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## livingdead

Juice said:


> Because he is a stone-age islamotard.



muslim brotherhood is generally moderate, and a strong opposition could have pushed them towards more dilution of their core values...

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## genmirajborgza786

Egypt military coup as it happened


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## fallstuff

Doritos11 said:


> If 50 million Americans start protesting Obama then they will not wait till his time is done, they will remove him to save the state from worse matters, this is similar.
> Its better to violate law to save something instead of following law knowing the result will be far worse.



Nixon was removed rather resigned from the office facing high crimes and misdemeanors.

Does the Egyptian Constitution allow such move?

These military coups set bad example for the next group of people who are not happy with their Govt. It's a slippery slope of a vicious cycle.


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## iranigirl2

@hinduguy


*2011 Egyptian revolution.*

Violent clashes between security forces and protesters resulted in at least 846 people killed and 6,000 injured.

*Source*:2011 Egyptian revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## al-Hasani

iranigirl2 said:


> @hinduguy*2011 Egyptian revolution.*
> 
> Violent clashes between security forces and protesters resulted in at least 846 people killed and 6,000 injured.
> 
> *Source*:2011 Egyptian revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Oh, that still does not mean that the Egyptian Army killed 1000 Egyptians let alone Copts. Those casualties happened due to a lot of reasons. Infighting between the police (mainly), infighting between various supporters etc.

The Egyptian military has made a peaceful transition until now. Not like your heretical Child-Murderer that you support in Syria and a Child-Murderer that your fake Wannabe-Arab and satanical Mullah's in Qom support with all their "might".

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## Mosamania

Soon Al-Nusrah Front and SIC will be wiped out soon. 

Mark my words, if you are smart you will know the pattern and why.


----------



## Doritos11

fallstuff said:


> Nixon was removed rather resigned from the office facing high crimes and misdemeanors.
> 
> Does the Egyptian Constitution allows such move?
> 
> These military coups set bad example for the next group of people who are not happy with their Govt. It's a slippery slope of a vicious cycle.



I dont know their constitution.
If economy recovers then I think the problems will be solved.

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## spiderkiller

al-Hasani said:


> *To the grandson of Hitler:*
> 
> Open some history book and don't act like a phantast. Everyone knows how spineless Iranians are. You have been ruled by fake Wannabe-Arab Mullah's for 35 years and barely had any uprisings. Foreigners, Arabs included, have conquered you plenty of times and had a field day. Changed your whole cultural, religious and social setup.
> 
> Let alone all the non-Persian ruling families that have ruled you from the Safavids to the Qajar to the Pahlavis who were peasants and one of them (a officer) took the throne of "Shah" (LOL) and his son (the Officer-Son as I like to call him) was the last one before your heretical and satanical fake Wannabe-Arab Mullah's started to rule you and since 1979 they have ruled you good, I must say.



so funny so incorrect. your knowledge about the history of iran is like your knowledge about your arab world military power.non iranian? you mean our government is not iranian then what is the reason that you should still see persian gulf name on the map ? they are not iranian ? then why iran has gone to the first 5 countries in science growth during last 10 years? and much more samples. if the government was non-iranian then believe me now you were dancing of happiness instead of burning inside. your way of posting is obvious you are burning inside from the growth of iran and decrease of everything in arab world.and about the cultural effect still its obvious you have not read even one book about your literature. even salam in your lang has a persian root.sabah al khair has a persian root.you didn't know what salt is before coming to iran.your lang didn't have any d(o)t before persian people made them for you and thousands of samples. buddy the effect of persian culture on yours was much more than yours on persian. and would you please name only one non-persian family that ruled my country after safavi ? i am really sorry but the style of your writing shows how pathetic you are. read more books then post comments .


----------



## livingdead

iranigirl2 said:


> *I didn't say 1000 copts died. But in 2011 over 1,000 Egyptians died in clashes with police and Army.*
> 
> Thousands of Coptic Christians took to the streets in Cairo to protest the burning of a church in Marinab and were headed towards Maspiro, where they were met with armoured personnel carrier, APCs, and hundreds of riot police and special forces. Army vehicles charged at the protesters and reports of at least 6 protesters being crushed under APCs, including one with a crushed skull, has emerged. In addition, witnesses have confirmed that military personnel were seen firing live ammunition into the protesters, while the Health Ministry confirmed that at least 20 protesters have undergone surgery for bullet wounds.[45] In total, an estimated 24 persons were killed most of whom are Copts, while numbers as high as 36 and 50 were reported, including unconfirmed reports of the death of three army soldiers. The number of wounded protesters was estimated to be 322, of whom about 250 were transported to hospitals.[46]
> 
> Inciting more unrest, messages were broadcasted on Egyptian national television urging "honest Egyptians" to take to the streets to "protect the military" from Christian protesters. As a result, hundreds of people, presumably Muslim extremists, were seen wielding clubs and machetes alongside riot police chanting "the people want to bring down the Christians", and later "Islamic, Islamic



this wiki entry is not neutral(it has the warning on top), you can figure out from the tone and style if not from content.. am not saying that the event never occured but it seems exaggerated.


----------



## Sedqal

al-Hasani said:


> Let me repeat myself. I saw similar comments from some members during the Turkey protests. Turkey will not stop being a Muslim country just because many protested against Erdogan. He does not have monopoly on Islam nor has Mursi. The thing is that when so many people like in Egypt turn up and the military take action then something is horribly wrong. Let the Egyptians improve their constitution, let them find a political consensus from all the various political groups and let them deal with their own political games.
> 
> Do you think that Egypt just chased to be an majority Muslim country overnight? Mursi and others will come and go but the people and Egypt will remain.
> 
> Stop thinking about a Ummah when Pakistan, KSA and other countries have their own issues to solve before we can think in a greater and wider picture. At least as governments. As individuals and fellow Muslims we should consider each others as brothers regardless of origins.
> 
> Can you follow me?
> 
> Not sure what this has to do with Iran. Nothing in reality. Egypt is an Arab country, majority Sunni Muslim and Iran has no influence in Egypt nor are they even a neighbor. Greece and Cyprus or even Turkey are located much closer. I struggle to see what KSA has to do with Egypt as well in this context other than being a fellow Arab, Sunni Muslim and neighboring country just across the Red Sea. In terms of the current protests - nothing really. Internal Egyptian issue.



I can't care less about Islamic credentials of MB, thing is they have a vote bank which went out and elected them to power. Similarly in Turkey that party has a vote bank which won't disappear once military forces them out. 

What will happen now? Will army allow MB to compete in elections? What will happen if they win again? Similarly what will stop MB to invite Army in once a different party comes to power or creating another Tehrir square? If Army uses force to stop them then boom! you'll have a very nasty thing breeding right inside Egypt (it may still happen). 

MB and that party in Turkey won't be elected again if people are not satisfied with their performance. The shenanigans from other parties are are usually because they are sure that they can't compete fairly. This thing will only create a mess. 

And please for what reason is Saudi King congratulating Egyptians? It would make sense if a new political govt is elected but why right now when two segments of Egyptian society are in arms. Does he want to rub in the fact how much say he has in Egypt? 

(I was pointing out Iran and Saudia as both seem very happy at the military takeover).


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## Yeti

Juice said:


> Because he is a stone-age islamotard.




When Morsi first came to power I would admit I had better expectations from him as he is a well educated man and I thought he would try to better the economy but alas things did not go to plan as many of us thought. Also he tried to put a lot of religious based things in the constitution which went down well with the Brotherhood but not sure it was what the Military liked particularly not to mention the liberals and Christians etc.

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## genmirajborgza786

RiasatKhan said:


> YES....and the longest serving dictator lasted 7(compare to other dictators) years before WE the PEOPLE forced him out of power.The coups happened in the first 20 years of our creation from a bloody war and genocide.



no there was a recent coup before this govt by gen moeen-u-ahmed


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## al-Hasani

*To the Grandson of Hitler - who was found to have distant African and Jewish origins: *

Hitler 'had Jewish and African roots', DNA tests show - Telegraph

You Persians original homeland is in Central Asia/the Kazakh Steppe where you left NO civilization. You only got civilized once you encountered us Semitic people in current day Iraq whom you copied in all aspects. Architecture, governmental rule etc. After being ruled by them for 300 years and dominated. Even your so-called "Cyrus the Great" adopted a Semitic language - Aramaic closely related to Arabic as the official language of Persia.

Oh, don't have hallucinations. The Arab influence of Iran is strong. Persian on the other hand in the Arab world is non-existent. You left nothing. Not even a single city or anything. Only influence is in Southern Iraq a tiny part of the Arab world.

On the other hand Persian language is full of Arabic words. Your whole alphabet (alphabets are a Semitic thing you Iranians never had any alphabets) is based on the Arabic alphabet, your religion and thus large parts of your culture etc.

That is just the reality. The Safavids were not Persians. Nor the Qajar's nor the Pahlavis. The current day fake Wannabe-Arab rulers claim ARAB ancestry and call themselves proudly Sayyid's LOL (fake claims). Also going to deny that? Your so-called heretical and satanic Grand Ayatollah is a Azeri too.

In the last 1400 years you have been conquered by Arabs, Turks, Mongols and others time and time again. Even Pashtuns conquered you and destroyed the Safavids.

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## Anubis

genmirajborgza786 said:


> no there was a recent coup before this govt by gen moeen-u-ahmed



UMM no there wasn't.He asked the US government if he should declare martial law during the Caretaker government and he was refused!


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## iranigirl2

Two people crying like little babies, they lost Morsi!

*Ed Husain*

Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR); author, The Islamist (Penguin).

https://twitter.com/Ed_Husain


*Shadi Hamid*

Director of Research at the Brookings Doha Center & Fellow at the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution.

https://twitter.com/shadihamid


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## Juice

iranigirl2 said:


> *For Obama, tricky diplomatic geometry in democratic Egypt*
> 
> 
> 
> With Egypt and its democratic experiment at a tipping point, U.S. President Barack Obama finds himself trying to nudge the most populous Arab country's bitterly divided antagonists toward compromise but finds his influence limited.
> 
> Where Obama and his predecessors once dealt with a single all-powerful figure - ousted strongman President Hosni Mubarak - the White House is now gingerly trying to persuade unpopular, but democratically elected, President Mohamed Mursi and Egypt's military to strike a political deal, all without alienating millions of Egyptians protesting in the streets.
> 
> Egypt's size and leading position in the Arab world mean its political course will be felt throughout the region, where the United States is already struggling to stem Islamist militants and sectarian strife.
> 
> But Obama has not forged close ties to Mursi, and has been criticized for what is widely seen as his standoffish approach to Egypt's attempts to solidify its democracy.
> 
> Now that Egypt looks to be on the brink of chaos, an immediate challenge for Washington is how to sway the country's armed forces, which have given Mursi until Wednesday to agree on power-sharing with other political forces, warning it would set out its own roadmap for the country's future if he did not.
> 
> A military coup against Mursi and his crumbling government would seriously undermine Obama's promotion of democracy in the Middle East and could lead to a cutoff in U.S. military aid to Egypt.
> 
> The United States relied heavily on its ties with Egypt's top military officers, forged through decades of joint training, military schooling in the United States and U.S. military aid, to guide the country to free elections when protesters poured into Cairo's Tahrir Square in early 2011 demanding Mubarak's ouster.
> 
> The armed forces eventually sided with the protesters, hastening Mubarak's downfall. The difference this time is that Mursi was democratically elected in a process backed by Washington.
> 
> U.S. influence with the Egyptian military is greatest on regional security matters, such as Egypt's peace treaty with Israel.
> 
> Underlying the importance for Washington of keeping ties to Egypt's military, Secretary of State John Kerry in May quietly approved $1.3 billion in military assistance, despite the country's failure to meet democracy standards set by the U.S. Congress.
> 
> To do so, Kerry waived a U.S. legal requirement that he certify the Egyptian government "is supporting the transition to civilian government, including holding free and fair elections, implementing policies to protect freedom of expression, association and religion, and due process of law."
> 
> "Nobody should be under the illusion that simply because we give $1.3 billion of weapons and training support to the Egyptian military that we can control them in any way when it comes to internal politics and the internal security situation," said Brian Katulis at the Center for American Progress, a Washington-based think tank.
> 
> Army General Martin Dempsey, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, spoke by telephone this week with Egypt's army chief of staff, Lieutenant General Sedki Sobhi, a U.S. defense official said.
> 
> Details of that conversation were not released, and it is unclear whether Dempsey or other top U.S. officials have explicitly warned the Egyptian military against mounting a coup.
> 
> Obama, Kerry and other U.S. leaders have not publicly criticized the army's ultimatum.
> 
> Michele Dunne, a former State Department official who served in Egypt and Israel and is now at the Atlantic Council think tank, said the key question is whether the military sweeps Mursi and his government aside entirely and steps in to rule, or stops short of that - perhaps by appointing a civilian figurehead.
> 
> The U.S.-Egypt military relationship was tested when the army assumed power after Mubarak's fall, and "if the military takes control, it's going to be tested again," she said.
> 
> OBAMA: LISTEN TO DEMONSTRATORS
> 
> The Obama White House has not been enamored with Mursi, a leader of the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood whom it sees as having failed to form an inclusive, effective government. Obama has not hosted Mursi at the White House, and officials canceled a visit by the Egyptian leader last year after a video from 2010 surfaced in which Morsi described Israelis as "descendants of apes and pigs."
> 
> Obama, wrapping up an Africa tour, called Mursi on Tuesday, according to the White House. "Democracy is about ... ensuring that the voices of all Egyptians are heard and represented by their government, including the many Egyptians demonstrating throughout the country," a White House statement said. Obama told Mursi that "the current crisis can only be resolved through a political process."
> 
> But amid reports of violence, Mursi showed little sign of compromise, calling on the military to withdraw its ultimatum and saying he would not be dictated to.
> 
> For Washington, communicating with the Mursi government is becoming more problematic.
> 
> State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki announced Tuesday that Kerry had called Egyptian Foreign Minister Mohamed Kamel Amr, only to be reminded by reporters that Amr had reportedly tendered his resignation - one of a half-dozen or so senior Mursi aides to resign in recent days.
> 
> It was unclear whether Amr was still in his position when Kerry spoke with him, giving a sense in Washington that the Mursi government is unraveling.
> 
> DOUBT ABOUT U.S. DEMOCRATIC COMMITMENT
> 
> As with the civil war in Syria, Obama has been criticized for what many analysts say is a largely hands-off approach toward post-Mubarak Egypt.
> 
> Obama administration officials counter that Washington has limited influence on Arab societies struggling to remake themselves, and too overt a U.S. intervention would backfire.
> 
> In the latest crisis, the United States, seen for decades in the Arab world as a supporter of pro-Western autocrats, has insisted it is not playing favorites.
> 
> That has not stopped some among the millions of protesters on Egypt's city streets from criticizing what they see as Washington's backing for Mursi. Photos insulting U.S. Ambassador to Egypt Anne Patterson have appeared in the crowds.
> 
> Obama told Mursi in their phone conversation "that the United States is committed to the democratic process in Egypt and does not support any single party or group," the White House said.
> 
> Dunne said popular resentment at the United States can be blamed in part on policies toward Egypt and other fragile Arab democracies that she labeled "unimaginative at best."
> 
> "We could have done so much more to encourage the transition in Egypt," she said. "We really have stayed out, stayed on the sidelines, waiting to see what happened."
> 
> 
> For Obama, tricky diplomatic geometry in democratic Egypt | Reuters


 Washington backing for Morsi? Are you people sun-stroked? We do NOT like Islamist (ask your Mullahs about this). If I remember correctly Osama bin Feedingfishies number two guy was in the Muslim Brotherhood. We merely took a hands-off approach. I am sure everyone here is happy to see him go.



al-Hasani said:


> *To the Grandson of Hitler - who was found to have distant African and Jewish origins: *
> 
> Hitler 'had Jewish and African roots', DNA tests show - Telegraph
> 
> You Persians original homeland is in Central Asia/the Kazakh Steppe where you left NO civilization. You only got civilized once you encountered us Semitic people in current day Iraq whom you copied in all aspects. Architecture, governmental rule etc. After being ruled by them for 300 years and dominated. Even your so-called "Cyrus the Great" adopted a Semitic language - Aramaic closely related to Arabic as the official language of Persia.
> 
> Oh, don't have hallucinations. The Arab influence of Iran is strong. Persian on the other hand in the Arab world is non-existent. You left nothing. Not even a single city or anything. Only influence is in Southern Iraq a tiny part of the Arab world.
> 
> On the other hand Persian language is full of Arabic words. Your whole alphabet (alphabets are a Semitic thing you Iranians never had any alphabets) is based on the Arabic alphabet, your religion and thus large parts of your culture etc.
> 
> That is just the reality. The Safavids were not Persians. Nor the Qajar's nor the Pahlavis. The current day fake Wannabe-Arab rulers claim ARAB ancestry and call themselves proudly Sayyid's LOL (fake claims). Also going to deny that? Your so-called heretical and satanic Grand Ayatollah is a Azeri too.
> 
> In the last 1400 years you have been conquered by Arabs, Turks, Mongols and others time and time again. Even Pashtuns conquered you and destroyed the Safavids.


 You left out Macedonians, but hey....

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## iranigirl2

Juice said:


> Washington backing for Morsi? Are you people sun-stroked? We do NOT like Islamist (ask your Mullahs about this). If I remember correctly Osama bin Feedingfishies number two guy was in the Muslim Brotherhood. We merely took a hands-off approach. I am sure everyone here is happy to see him go.



Muslim Brotherhood has been very friendly to US interests in Egypt. Washington has been backing MB in Egypt and in Syria, they are backing political Islam.


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## al-Hasani

Sedqal said:


> I can't care less about Islamic credentials of MB, thing is they have a vote bank which went out and elected them to power. Similarly in Turkey that party has a vote bank which won't disappear once military forces them out.
> 
> What will happen now? Will army allow MB to compete in elections? What will happen if they win again? Similarly what will stop MB to invite Army in once a different party comes to power or creating another Tehrir square? If Army uses force to stop them then boom! you'll have a very nasty thing breeding right inside Egypt (it may still happen).
> 
> MB and that party in Turkey won't be elected again if people are not satisfied with their performance. The shenanigans from other parties are are usually because they are sure that they can't compete fairly. This thing will only create a mess.
> 
> And please for what reason is Saudi King congratulating Egyptians? It would make sense if a new political govt is elected but why right now when two segments of Egyptian society are in arms. Does he want to rub in the fact how much say he has in Egypt?
> 
> (I was pointing out Iran and Saudia as both seem very happy at the military takeover).



I respect your opinion and let us agree to disagree. You would have to ask those questions to the Egyptian members here but they don't seem very interested in answering questions right now. Probably because they have better things to do when their country is in the middle of making history.

Because we and he included does not care about political parties in Egypt but most importantly for the Egyptian people and for the security of Egypt since it is a fellow Arab, Sunni Muslim country and moreover a neighbor just across the Red Sea. We need stability in Egypt to have a secure and prospering region.

Oh, don't use the views of 4-5 users and conclude that people from nations that have millions of people share the exact same opinions.


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## iranigirl2

Deposed Egyptian President Mohamed Morsy is held under "house arrest," a Muslim Brotherhood spokesman tweets.


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## Juice

iranigirl2 said:


> Muslim Brotherhood has been very friendly to US interests in Egypt. Washington has been backing MB in Egypt and in Syria, they are backing political Islam.



Suuure....we Americans love us some Islamist.....that's why the "great satan" and Iran are such good buddies. When Osama's number two from Egypt ok'ed crashing those planes into New York it was because they were filled with thank-you notes from the Muslim Brotherhood. You people never can get your lies straight. If we are ordered around by Israel....does Israel like the Muslim Brotherhood? Try to keep the delusions straight.

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## iranigirl2

Juice said:


> Suuure....we Americans love us some Islamist.....that's why the "great satan" and Iran are such good buddies.



Obama's policies in the Middle East is to support political Islam.

America is largely against the Mullahs in Tehran because 
1) nuclear issue 
2) iran will not sign a peace treaty with Israel 
3) iran is a threat to US interest in Middle east.

Muslim Brotherhood wasn't going after nuclear weapons , kept the peace treaty with Israel, and was very friendly to US interest.


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## iranigirl2

*Muslim Brotherhood official: Deposed Egypt President Morsy arrested by presidential guards at guards' headquarters.*


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## Juice

And if you think for one minute that the Egyptian Army didn't run this plan by the US you are deluded. And ps....I am American....so I have an Idea of who we like. You Iranians love Israel....your Mullahs do everything they can to support them.

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## iranigirl2

Juice said:


> And if you think for one minute that the Egyptian Army didn't run this plan by the US you are deluded.



Annals of National Security: The Redirection : The New Yorker


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## Juice

iranigirl2 said:


> Annals of National Security: The Redirection : The New Yorker


 the enemy of my enemy....certainly you have heard the phrase......remember your little kerfluffle with Iraq?



JonAsad said:


> Do you think Egypt was facing Sunni Shia problem?- you wish-
> And how ill infirmed many of you are is hilarious- seriously?-



Do you know what a Copt is? (speaking of ill-informed)


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## al-Hasani

Doritos11 said:


> I dont know their constitution.
> If economy recovers then I think the problems will be solved.



Actually economical hardships are the key reason for political and civil unrest in virtually every country on the earth. Aside from basic services, security, some levels of freedom etc.

Egypt needs to find their foothold and the political parties and the military need to understand their roles in the society. Most importantly all the Egyptian political parties need to understand that they should work for the best of Egypt and its people rather than only their own interests. This is a typical thing in the Arab world. Politicians and parties want to be dictators on their own and cannot compromise nearly.

*&#7716;ashsh&#257;sh&#299;n *

Where are you from if I may ask? Central African Republic but living in Kenya? Quite interesting. I assume that you are a Ismaili too. Makes it even more "interesting".

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## Solomon2

link


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## Juice

fallstuff said:


> .
> Military just overturned the will of the people. Only the people of Egypt should have the option of replacing Morsi


 They did (And I'm pretty sure the Egyptian Army is manned by Egyptians too)


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## Yeti

This all started with that one Tunisian street vendor who set himself on fire (God rest his soul) after we had the Arab Spring, Bahrain, Syria and Egypt is going round and round in circles when will all this end?? is this the start of the end times? the Kaliyuga and the likes?

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## fallstuff

Juice said:


> They did (And I'm pretty sure the Egyptian Army is manned by Egyptians too)



Replacing through election, a requirement for a representative form of government.


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## Doritos11

al-Hasani said:


> Actually economical hardships are the key reason for political and civil unrest in virtually every country on the earth. Aside from basic services, security, some levels of freedom etc.
> 
> Egypt needs to find their foothold and the political parties and the military need to understand their roles in the society. Most importantly all the Egyptian political parties need to understand that they should work for the best of Egypt and its people rather than only their own interests. This is a typical thing in the Arab world. Politicians and parties want to be dictators on their own and cannot compromise nearly.
> 
> *&#7716;ashsh&#257;sh&#299;n *
> 
> Where are you from if I may ask? Central African Republic but living in Kenya? Quite interesting. I assume that you are a Ismaili too. Makes it even more "interesting".


 
Yes, only Morsi to me seems like Saddam for some part.
Trying to use a powerfull country for his own ideas.

I mean the speech of "us" marching towards al quds and making it our capital where Morsi was sitting on a seat with a smile already says enough.


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## fawwaxs




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## Doritos11

btw, offtopic, did you see Iraq-Paraguay u20 today ? we continue to the quarter finals of the world cup u20

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## al-Hasani

Doritos11 said:


> Yes, only Morsi to me seems like Saddam for some part.
> Trying to use a powerfull country for his own ideas.
> 
> I mean the speech of "us" marching towards al quds and making it our capital where Morsi was sitting on a seat with a smile already says enough.



Actually this is a quite common trait among Arab rulers/leaders and Middle Eastern rulers in general. It is even worse in Africa. Much worse actually. The worst example is North Korea. Just a absolutely sick society.

Ah, I don't think that Morsi can be compared to any past leader to be honest with you. MB was just not ready to rule Egypt and Egypt is going through a lot of problems especially financial ones which would make it difficult for every leader. The Egyptian people are divided on many fronts which will cause problems if they don't find a consensus. Some of his actions were idiotic though and did not make life easier for him. Overall he was not a success.

Though when reading about Morsi then he seems to be one of the more educated leaders in the Middle East:


> Morsi was born in the Sharqia Governorate, in northern Egypt, of modest provincial origin, in the village of El-Adwah, north of Cairo, on 8 August 1951.[14] His father was a farmer and his mother a housewife.[14] He is the eldest of five brothers, and told journalists that he remembers being taken to school on the back of a donkey.[15] He earned a bachelor's and master's degree in engineering from Cairo University in 1975 and 1978, respectively. He then earned his Ph.D. in materials science from the University of Southern California in the U.S. in 1982 with his dissertation High-Temperature Electrical Conductivity and Defect Structure of Donor-Doped Al2O3.[16][17] He was an Assistant Professor at California State University, Northridge, from 1982 to 1985. In 1985, he returned to Egypt and began to serve as the head of the engineering department at Zagazig University, where he was a professor until 2010.





> Morsi is married to his cousin, Naglaa Ali Mahmoud.[130] She reportedly stated that she does not want to be referred to "First Lady" but rather "First Servant [of the Egyptian public]."[131]
> Morsi has five children:[132] Ahmed Mohammed Morsi, who is a physician in Saudi Arabia; Shaima, a graduate of Zagazig University; Osama, an attorney; Omar has a bachelor in commerce from Zagazig University; and Abdullah, high school student.[133] Two of Morsi's five children were born in California and are U.S. citizens by birth.[134] Morsi has three grandchildren.[133] His third son, Omar, was appointed to the Holding Company for Airports, a state-owned company, six months after his graduation.[135] However, he declined the job offer due to many rumors and attacks in the media and press.[136][137]


This is no Gaddafi and the likes of him.

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## genmirajborgza786

RiasatKhan said:


> UMM no there wasn't.He asked the US government if he should declare martial law during the Caretaker government and he was refused!



dude the caretaker govt was it self installed by the *Military*, it was a *Military backed* technocratic set up where the *Army* had arrested the two main political leaders ,*emergency imposed*, Tanks & Armoured vehicles on the streets with troops patrolling & * Army * doing accountability of politicians & business men & seizing their BMW cars 



> Lt. Gen. Moeen was the key force behind the declaration of emergency in the country on 11 January 2007 widely known as 1/11 phenomenon.[6] He upgraded his rank from Lt. General to General during his illegal tenure when there was no regular government; the caretaker government is not mandated to work other than routine work and managing parliamentary elections. He also extended his tenure of army chief, which is fixed for a time period, for one year in same way.[7] He has been accused of playing a controversial role by helping the caretaker government of Bangladesh to retain power after constitution stipulated three months' duration. Although never publicly admitted, he has been identified as the main driving force behind the non-elected government but he has also been praised for arranging voter ID cards before 29 December 2008. He and the government has been accused domestically and globally to de-politicise the country. Hundreds of political figures, including two ex-prime ministers, ministers, lawmakers and local government heads, have been imprisoned by the regime accusing them of
> 
> corruption.Moeen U Ahmed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## iranigirl2




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## mahatir

gambit said:


> All the more reasons why Morsi should have focused on the economy. People are the same the world over when it comes to the economy. At the ground level in any country larger or smaller than its neighbors, businesses understand -- *INSTINCTIVELY* -- that the larger economy they are under cannot be steered like a race car but more like sailboat or a yacht or in the case of the US, an ark of a vessel. Slow and ponderous, but still visibly changing course. That is what people expect -- visibility. If there are problems along the changing of direction, people will understand and there will be defenders of the current polices as well as oppositions. Oppositions to economic policies would have been nowhere as vocal or revolutionary as what we are seeing today. Do not underestimate the patience and generosity of business people.
> 
> But instead of doing what is *OBVIOUSLY* necessary, Morsi acted the way any hardcore Islamist would -- placate the theocrats. Egypt be damned.



Morsi has done many things that if obama ever have done would have been impeached by the american congress . 

1) Morsi mobs sieged egypt constitutional court for 4 weeks to force them to take a court ruling meeting their agenda 
2) Morsi mobs attacked and terrorized minorities and other muslims for carrying a different political belief . 
3) Morsi created a constitution without a national consensus that only met his party interests and used bribery and terrorism during voting date to pass his racist constitution which would have turned Egypt into another afghanistan 
4) Morsi decided to appoint one of his allies as Egypt highest prosecutor so that he could use him in detaining all his political opponents and one example was Bassem yousef who was arrested more than once for criticizing morsi policies. 
5) Morsi mobs wanted to reduce legal marriage age in Egypt from 18 to 10 years. 
6) Morsi appointed an Egyptian terrorist as the governor of assiyut , a person who killed 122 foreign tourists in Egypt during the 1990s . 
7) Morsi one sided policies ruined the Egyptian economy and made foreign investors and tourists escape egypt for good. 

I can keep going on and on but I am sure if the USA had a clown president like morsi he would not even survive a day in office.



Yeti said:


> This all started with that one Tunisian street vendor who set himself on fire (God rest his soul) after we had the Arab Spring, Bahrain, Syria and Egypt is going round and round in circles when will all this end?? is this the start of the end times? the Kaliyuga and the likes?



Political Islam is coming to an end in Egypt .



iranigirl2 said:


>




Dont spam this page with Iran conflicts with USA , most of the Americans were against morsi including the congress , Obama has his own flawed foreign policy that neither the US Army or congress agree with. 

Egyptians are fighting for a free country and not a rogue state .

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## Anubis

genmirajborgza786 said:


> dude the caretaker govt was it self installed by the *Military*, it was a *Military backed* technocratic set up where the *Army* had arrested the two main political leaders ,*emergency imposed*, Tanks & Armoured vehicles on the streets with troops patrolling & * Army * doing accountability of politicians & business men & seizing their BMW cars



UMM no......the caretaker government is an interim government which required by our constitution for holding fare elections.It is always a technocrat government.The political leaders were not arrested by the military.They were arrested because charges of corruption were pressed by the ACC(which already existed and not founded by the military) which was out of military influence and had no military in its governing body.Those who paid taxes for their cars were not harrased.Those who didn't were asked to and if they didn't were arrested.Seems pretty fare and legal and non-coup like to me!


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## iPhone

I'm so glad and relieved Pakistan did not fall in this trap of fake revolution. As bad and as corrupt the PPP govt was, I'm glad it was allowed to complete its term which set a huge presidence in the country.

If people don't like Pmln either, throw him out in few years but don't play dirty and bloody politics with military coups. These morons in Egypt don't known what they have done. Chanting and dancing like idiots while their country slips into chaos.

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## Prechko

Revolutions with high foreign interference and simply not mature domestic society always result like this , but i`m not sure US is too happy with this. They remember well repercussions of 1953 coup , greatest ally turned greatest enemy in the region in less than 30 years.


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## bdslph

he should have avoided the rally he should have know his limit of power 
he is not in Saudi and Qatar


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## bdslph

no matter what Egypt will remain directly or indirectly USA pet 
the all opposition is USA support and also the Army it self support USA secretly

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## darkinsky

i hope pakistan learns from egypt that why coups are bad

who ever pakistani people elect they will learn from their mistakes if not after few years, after few decades it will certainly mture

but pakistani elections need to be fair, i should say that rigged elections in pak didnt bring legitimate government so we dont need the coup, we need re elections


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## Pakistanisage

Solomon2 said:


> Who elected _you_ to speak for a billion Muslims?






He is entitled to speak his mind ZIONIST.

Who the hell died and left you In-Charge ?

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## agentny17

iranigirl2 said:


> What's next for Egypt?


Hard to tell... A Constitution that protects human rights, freedom of speech, fair elections and transfer of power would be a start.


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## MooshMoosh

Reminds me of algerian civil war when failure of election between seculars and islamist. There was a huge clash between supporters and opponents when they attacked masjed and assaulted women's nijab in Alex. So this isn't over yet...wait for a week to receive fresh updates because right now there are clashes. Wait for a while


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## Harmonia Dragon

New egypt must neutral.............
remeber kill all salafi/wahhabi & dont support any faction in syria...........let them destroyed into ash

learn & build new modern egypt like malaysia & swedia/finland.......

now....next egypt enemy are the salafi/wahhabis...............Remember egypt people..........kill..........kill them........
and destroy all sect in egypt shia,sunni...etc...............

one moderate & pure islam is one choice for new egypt


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## Harmonia Dragon

2 morsi wrong decision...............join with salafi/khawarij & support the fsa..................................

now they fall....................
dont support any faction..............stay neutral build your new egypt with modern & high education system..........

palestine,syiria,shia,sunni...............leave them.......forget them..............

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## Mosamania

Harmonia Dragon said:


> New egypt must neutral.............
> remeber kill all salafi/wahhabi & dont support any faction in syria...........let them destroyed into ash
> 
> learn & build new modern egypt like malaysia & swedia/finland.......
> 
> now....next egypt enemy are the salafi/wahhabis...............Remember egypt people..........kill..........kill them........
> and destroy all sect in egypt shia,sunni...etc...............
> 
> one moderate & pure islam is one choice for new egypt




Oh, the one calling for Arab genocide. 

Can you tell me where you live please? I'll give you hands on genocide lessons for free

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## MooshMoosh

Notice how Essie the defence chief vows to defend Egypt from terrorist and ignorants before the oustal, look who is threatening the secularist? The officials knew something would happen after Morsi was ousted.


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## anonymus

Mosamania said:


> Oh, the one calling for Arab genocide.
> 
> Can you tell me where you live please? I'll give you hands on genocide lessons for free



This man/woman brain is bag full of cats. You could smell crazy on him/her, even on internet.


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## Yzd Khalifa

Listening freak-show, I have been struggling trying to make you understand that superstitious cults are plight to human civilization, so please, pack your backpack and leave forever. 


Harmonia Dragon said:


> New egypt must neutral.............
> remeber kill all salafi/wahhabi & dont support any faction in syria...........let them destroyed into ash
> 
> learn & build new modern egypt like malaysia & swedia/finland.......
> 
> now....next egypt enemy are the salafi/wahhabis...............Remember egypt people..........kill..........kill them........
> and destroy all sect in egypt shia,sunni...etc...............
> 
> one moderate & pure islam is one choice for new egypt

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## Harmonia Dragon

Yzd khalifa...i know........you are part of them Khawarij/wahabbism..............the cursed people..........dog from hell...........

dont worry..............jahannam........best place for you........

All sect & All Wahabbism Must Killed & Erased From Earth.................Forever


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## Harmonia Dragon

mosamania...........now im in holiday in antartica..............for 2 weeks.........then back to brunei.............hoho


very silent & beautiful place

Antartica best place for holiday in modern world

arab.......dont worry......all of you will erased & killed from earth......in imam mahdi era.....just wait

All Arab Will Killed This Is Fate From Creator Of Universe


----------



## Surenas

al-Hasani said:


> *To the Grandson of Hitler - who was found to have distant African and Jewish origins: *
> 
> Hitler 'had Jewish and African roots', DNA tests show - Telegraph
> 
> You Persians original homeland is in Central Asia/the Kazakh Steppe where you left NO civilization. You only got civilized once you encountered us Semitic people in current day Iraq whom you copied in all aspects. Architecture, governmental rule etc. After being ruled by them for 300 years and dominated. Even your so-called "Cyrus the Great" adopted a Semitic language - Aramaic closely related to Arabic as the official language of Persia.
> 
> Oh, don't have hallucinations. The Arab influence of Iran is strong. Persian on the other hand in the Arab world is non-existent. You left nothing. Not even a single city or anything. Only influence is in Southern Iraq a tiny part of the Arab world.
> 
> On the other hand Persian language is full of Arabic words. Your whole alphabet (alphabets are a Semitic thing you Iranians never had any alphabets) is based on the Arabic alphabet, your religion and thus large parts of your culture etc.
> 
> That is just the reality. The Safavids were not Persians. Nor the Qajar's nor the Pahlavis. The current day fake Wannabe-Arab rulers claim ARAB ancestry and call themselves proudly Sayyid's LOL (fake claims). Also going to deny that? Your so-called heretical and satanic Grand Ayatollah is a Azeri too.
> 
> In the last 1400 years you have been conquered by Arabs, Turks, Mongols and others time and time again. Even Pashtuns conquered you and destroyed the Safavids.



Go eat some lizards you desert-wanderer. It were the Persians who taught you Arabs some civilization.


----------



## RangerPK

RuheTag said:


> Egyptian army takes over state TV as military, opposition heads meet
> 
> Egypt braces for showdown: Army vehicles surround state TV building
> 
> I hope Pakistani Generals learn something from this.
> 
> Coups are back..
> 
> Lets prepare another plane for Mian Saheb.



I think, considering the situation in Pakistan, even if the army does coup, then it would only be able to do so in Punjab, the rest of the provinces would simply reject the military coup over Punjab....lol and would just mind their own states, of Balochistan, Sindh, KPK...


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## Yzd Khalifa

Surenas said:


> Go eat some lizards you desert-wanderer. It were the Persians who taught you Arabs some civilization.


^
Expect the unexpected @anonymus  ,right?



Harmonia Dragon said:


> mosamania...........now im in holiday in antartica..............for 2 weeks.........then back to brunei.............hoho
> 
> 
> very silent & beautiful place
> 
> Antartica best place for holiday in modern world
> 
> arab.......dont worry......all of you will erased & killed from earth......in imam mahdi era.....just wait
> 
> *All Arab Will Killed This Is Fate From Creator Of Universe*



Dude, seriously go to talk to someone to pull you out if your monstrous attitude.

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## Mosamania

Harmonia Dragon said:


> mosamania...........now im in holiday in antartica..............for 2 weeks.........then back to brunei.............hoho
> 
> 
> very silent & beautiful place
> 
> Antartica best place for holiday in modern world
> 
> arab.......dont worry......all of you will erased & killed from earth......in imam mahdi era.....just wait
> 
> All Arab Will Killed This Is Fate From Creator Of Universe



Will you participate in the mass slaughter of Arabs? Does it get you off thinking about it? 

You know "dog from hell" is actually a hellhound right? And Hell Hounds are death omens right? So whenever you see an Arab go run very fast and very hard, Hell hounds come to those whose times are running up, so when you meet an Arab run run runnnn

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## Harmonia Dragon

when all arab erased from earth...................... 
The World Will Come Into Peace Era.......

Prophet Muhammad Say........All Arab Will Killed & Erased From Earth.........Only Few Will Survived.......By Plague.......

This Is Your Destiny ...........This Is Your Fate From God...........

Prepare For That Arab..........When Imam mahdi come.........no more arab

My Dream Just One.........

One Earth One Islam One With Full Peace World......& Full With True Justice

I hope without stupid & dumb arab slave of zionist & west...............

HAHA............YOUR DESTINY IS TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF ARAB..............HAHAHA


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## Alshawi1234

I knew this was going to happen, this guy lasted much less than Assad whom he was criticizing.

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## Biplab Bijay

Pakistanisage said:


> This is the dumbest thing Egyptian Army ever did. They will pay a heavy price for this rebellion.
> 
> I see a bloodbath of Coptics and the liberals. Egyptian people will sadly pay a heavy rice.
> 
> Whether they like Morsi or not he is a legally democratically elected President as more than half of Egyptians voted for him. Now those people who voted for Morsi will be mad as hell and they will come out in the streets.
> 
> There are no winners in this madness.




The only price that will be paid is the elimination of minorities and nothing else.


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## Sedqal

Biplab Bijay said:


> The only price that will be paid is the elimination of minorities and nothing else.



We have the extremely troubling example of Algeria, I hope things don't go towards that direction.

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## RangerPK

iranigirl2 said:


>



judging by these pics it is Kina funny, how Egyptians over threw the army themselves and are now some how blaming USA for it and in some twisted way, want USA to mend his ways and solve the problems of Egyptians like it ought too.....

That is kina bizarre

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## Harmonia Dragon

Madinah returns to center-stage

This essay presents arguments and evidence that Madinah will soon be liberated from being a back-water, silent Saudi-Wahhabi university town into a city that will dramatically occupy center-stage in the affairs of the world, and this should warm the hearts of Muslims around the world.

Central to this thesis is the End-Time prophecy that the Arabs will be destroyed by epidemics (formerly referred to as plagues):

&#1593;&#1606; &#1593;&#1614;&#1608;&#1618;&#1601; &#1576;&#1618;&#1606; &#1605;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1616;&#1603;&#1613; &#1602;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1614; &#1571;&#1614;&#1578;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1578;&#1615; &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1614;&#1617;&#1576;&#1616;&#1610;&#1614;&#1617; &#1589;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1607;&#1615; &#1593;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1607;&#1616; &#1608;&#1614;&#1587;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1605;&#1614; &#1601;&#1616;&#1610; &#1594;&#1614;&#1586;&#1618;&#1608;&#1614;&#1577;&#1616; &#1578;&#1614;&#1576;&#1615;&#1608;&#1603;&#1614; &#1608;&#1614;&#1607;&#1615;&#1608;&#1614; &#1601;&#1616;&#1610; &#1602;&#1615;&#1576;&#1614;&#1617;&#1577;&#1613; &#1605;&#1616;&#1606;&#1618; &#1571;&#1614;&#1583;&#1614;&#1605;&#1613; &#1601;&#1614;&#1602;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1614; &#1575;&#1593;&#1618;&#1583;&#1615;&#1583;&#1618; &#1587;&#1616;&#1578;&#1611;&#1617;&#1575; &#1576;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1606;&#1614; &#1610;&#1614;&#1583;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575;&#1593;&#1614;&#1577;&#1616; &#1605;&#1614;&#1608;&#1618;&#1578;&#1616;&#1610; &#1579;&#1615;&#1605;&#1614;&#1617; &#1601;&#1614;&#1578;&#1618;&#1581;&#1615; &#1576;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1578;&#1616; &#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1605;&#1614;&#1602;&#1618;&#1583;&#1616;&#1587;&#1616; &#1579;&#1615;&#1605;&#1614;&#1617; &#1605;&#1615;&#1608;&#1618;&#1578;&#1614;&#1575;&#1606;&#1612; &#1610;&#1614;&#1571;&#1618;&#1582;&#1615;&#1584;&#1615; &#1601;&#1616;&#1610;&#1603;&#1615;&#1605;&#1618; &#1603;&#1614;&#1602;&#1615;&#1593;&#1614;&#1575;&#1589;&#1616; &#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1594;&#1614;&#1606;&#1614;&#1605;&#1616; &#1579;&#1615;&#1605;&#1614;&#1617; &#1575;&#1587;&#1618;&#1578;&#1616;&#1601;&#1614;&#1575;&#1590;&#1614;&#1577;&#1615; &#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1605;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1616; &#1581;&#1614;&#1578;&#1614;&#1617;&#1609; &#1610;&#1615;&#1593;&#1618;&#1591;&#1614;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1585;&#1614;&#1617;&#1580;&#1615;&#1604;&#1615; &#1605;&#1616;&#1575;&#1574;&#1614;&#1577;&#1614; &#1583;&#1616;&#1610;&#1606;&#1614;&#1575;&#1585;&#1613; &#1601;&#1614;&#1610;&#1614;&#1592;&#1614;&#1604;&#1615;&#1617; &#1587;&#1614;&#1575;&#1582;&#1616;&#1591;&#1611;&#1575; &#1579;&#1615;&#1605;&#1614;&#1617; &#1601;&#1616;&#1578;&#1618;&#1606;&#1614;&#1577;&#1612; &#1604;&#1614;&#1575; &#1610;&#1614;&#1576;&#1618;&#1602;&#1614;&#1609; &#1576;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1578;&#1612; &#1605;&#1616;&#1606;&#1618; &#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1593;&#1614;&#1585;&#1614;&#1576;&#1616; &#1573;&#1616;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575; &#1583;&#1614;&#1582;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1578;&#1618;&#1607;&#1615; &#1579;&#1615;&#1605;&#1614;&#1617; &#1607;&#1615;&#1583;&#1618;&#1606;&#1614;&#1577;&#1612; &#1578;&#1614;&#1603;&#1615;&#1608;&#1606;&#1615; &#1576;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1606;&#1614;&#1603;&#1615;&#1605;&#1618; &#1608;&#1614;&#1576;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1606;&#1614; &#1576;&#1614;&#1606;&#1616;&#1610; &#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1571;&#1614;&#1589;&#1618;&#1601;&#1614;&#1585;&#1616; &#1601;&#1614;&#1610;&#1614;&#1594;&#1618;&#1583;&#1616;&#1585;&#1615;&#1608;&#1606;&#1614; &#1601;&#1614;&#1610;&#1614;&#1571;&#1618;&#1578;&#1615;&#1608;&#1606;&#1614;&#1603;&#1615;&#1605;&#1618; &#1578;&#1614;&#1581;&#1618;&#1578;&#1614; &#1579;&#1614;&#1605;&#1614;&#1575;&#1606;&#1616;&#1610;&#1606;&#1614; &#1594;&#1614;&#1575;&#1610;&#1614;&#1577;&#1611; &#1578;&#1614;&#1581;&#1618;&#1578;&#1614; &#1603;&#1615;&#1604;&#1616;&#1617; &#1594;&#1614;&#1575;&#1610;&#1614;&#1577;&#1613; &#1575;&#1579;&#1618;&#1606;&#1614;&#1575; &#1593;&#1614;&#1588;&#1614;&#1585;&#1614; &#1571;&#1614;&#1604;&#1618;&#1601;&#1611;&#1575; (&#1589;&#1581;&#1610;&#1581; &#1575;&#1604;&#1576;&#1582;&#1575;&#1585;&#1610.

Narrated Auf bin Malik: I went to the Prophet during the Ghazwa of Tab&#363;k while he was sitting in a leather tent. He said, "Count six signs that indicate the approach of the Hour: my death, the conquest of Jerusalem, a plague that will afflict you (and kill you in great numbers) as the plague that afflicts sheep, the increase of wealth to such an extent that even if one is given one hundred Din&#257;rs, he will not be satisfied; then an affliction which no Arab house will escape, and then a Truce between you and Ban&#363; Al-Asfar who will betray you and attack you under eighty flags. Under each flag will be twelve thousand soldiers.

(Sah&#299;h Bukh&#257;r&#299

&#1593;&#1614;&#1606;&#1618; &#1593;&#1614;&#1576;&#1618;&#1583;&#1616; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1607;&#1616; &#1576;&#1618;&#1606;&#1616; &#1593;&#1614;&#1605;&#1618;&#1585;&#1613;&#1608; &#1602;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1614; &#1602;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1614; &#1585;&#1614;&#1587;&#1615;&#1608;&#1604;&#1615; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1607;&#1616; &#1589;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1607;&#1615; &#1593;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1607;&#1616; &#1608;&#1614;&#1587;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1605;&#1614; &#1578;&#1614;&#1603;&#1615;&#1608;&#1606;&#1615; &#1601;&#1616;&#1578;&#1618;&#1606;&#1614;&#1577;&#1612; &#1578;&#1614;&#1587;&#1618;&#1578;&#1614;&#1606;&#1618;&#1592;&#1616;&#1601;&#1615; &#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1593;&#1614;&#1585;&#1614;&#1576;&#1615; &#1602;&#1614;&#1578;&#1618;&#1604;&#1614;&#1575;&#1607;&#1614;&#1575; &#1601;&#1616;&#1610; &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575;&#1585;&#1616; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1616;&#1617;&#1587;&#1614;&#1575;&#1606;&#1615; &#1601;&#1616;&#1610;&#1607;&#1614;&#1575; &#1571;&#1614;&#1588;&#1614;&#1583;&#1615;&#1617; &#1605;&#1616;&#1606;&#1618; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1614;&#1617;&#1610;&#1618;&#1601;&#1616; . (&#1587;&#1606;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1578;&#1585;&#1605;&#1584;&#1610; &#1608;&#1587;&#1606;&#1606; &#1575;&#1576;&#1606; &#1605;&#1575;&#1580;&#1607

Abdullah bin Amr reported that the Messenger of Allah said: "There will come a calamity which will wipe out the Arabs. Their slain will be in hell. The tongue will be more severe in this than the blow of the sword."

(Tirm&#299;idhi, IbnM&#257;jah)

There is evidence that the present Arab Spring which commenced more than one year ago, like the one which preceded it one hundred years before, was Judeo-Christian-European crafted, and is meant to prepare the way for an Arab slaughter which will facilitate the imposition of Israeli political and economic dominion over the Arabs.

It is almost certain that Zionists will soon wage biological war against the Arabs (on Dajj&#257;ls behalf) as prophesied by the Prophet, with which to bring about a substantial reduction in the population of the Arab world.

There are several Ahad&#299;th which inform us that neither plague nor Dajj&#257;l can enter Makkah and Madinah:

&#1593;&#1614;&#1606;&#1618; &#1571;&#1614;&#1576;&#1616;&#1610; &#1607;&#1615;&#1585;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1585;&#1614;&#1577;&#1614; &#1585;&#1614;&#1590;&#1616;&#1610;&#1614; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1607;&#1615; &#1602;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1614; &#1585;&#1614;&#1587;&#1615;&#1608;&#1604;&#1615; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1607;&#1616; &#1589;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1607;&#1615; &#1593;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1607;&#1616; &#1608;&#1614;&#1587;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1605;&#1614; &#1593;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1609; &#1571;&#1614;&#1606;&#1618;&#1602;&#1614;&#1575;&#1576;&#1616; &#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1605;&#1614;&#1583;&#1616;&#1610;&#1606;&#1614;&#1577;&#1616; &#1605;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1575;&#1574;&#1616;&#1603;&#1614;&#1577;&#1612; &#1604;&#1614;&#1575; &#1610;&#1614;&#1583;&#1618;&#1582;&#1615;&#1604;&#1615;&#1607;&#1614;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1591;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575;&#1593;&#1615;&#1608;&#1606;&#1615; &#1608;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1614;&#1617;&#1580;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575;&#1604;&#1615; (&#1589;&#1581;&#1610;&#1581; &#1575;&#1604;&#1576;&#1582;&#1575;&#1585;&#1610

Abu Huraira(radiallahu 'anhu) said: The Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihiwasallam) said: There are angels at the entrances of Madinah. Neither plagues nor Dajj&#257;l shall enter it.

(Sah&#299;h Bukh&#257;r&#299

Our view, and Allah Knows best, is that this prophecy pertains to the biological attack on the Arabs that would be launched on Dajj&#257;ls behalf (hence the juxtaposition of plague with Dajj&#257;l in the Had&#299;th). Hence our conclusion is that Makkah and Madinah are destined to dramatically recover center-stage in Islamic and world affairs when the two cities provide dramatic and providential safety at that time when the biological attack on the Arabs is launched.

But Madinah, the university town with the purest expression of Saudi-Wahhabi Islam, is destined to play an even greater and more dramatic role in history, - a role that will be profoundly embarrassing for the Saudi-Wahhabi expression of Islam.

Madinah will eclipse Makkah at center-stage

It is not at all difficult for us to anticipate large-scale movement of Arabs to Makkah and Madinah as soon as Israel commences her great wars. One can even expect that this essay might possibly provoke that movement to commence even before the wars begin. The Arabs will do so since they will be in a state of expectation of the epidemics that are prophesied to decimate or wipe out the Arabs. When Makkah and Madinah are over-flowing with Arabs seeking safety and refuge from death by plague, that mass gathering will surely provoke a spontaneous and volatile combustion between those with the chemical of faith in Islam in their hearts on the one hand, and those who serve Dajj&#257;l on the other.

It is easy today to recognize those Arabs who serve Dajj&#257;l since they are the ones who are shamelessly and sinfully supported the recent unjust NATO overthrow of the Libyan regime, and are now beating drums in support of an equally unjust Israeli/Turkish/NATO war on Syria and on Iran. They have forgotten that the Quran has prohibited Muslims from being friends and allies of a Judeo-Christian alliance (al-Maida 5:51) and has also prohibited unjust war while enjoining absolute justice!

The spontaneous combustion in Madinah is destined to lead to dramatic events with a potential to profoundly embarrass that purest expression of Saudi Islam. The Prophet prophesied the following:

&#1593;&#1606; &#1571;&#1614;&#1606;&#1614;&#1587; &#1576;&#1618;&#1606; &#1605;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1616;&#1603;&#1613; &#1585;&#1614;&#1590;&#1616;&#1610;&#1614; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1607;&#1615; &#1593;&#1614;&#1606;&#1618; &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1614;&#1617;&#1576;&#1616;&#1610;&#1616;&#1617; &#1589;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1607;&#1615; &#1593;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1607;&#1616; &#1608;&#1614;&#1587;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1605;&#1614; &#1602;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1614; &#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1587;&#1614; &#1605;&#1616;&#1606;&#1618; &#1576;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1583;&#1613; &#1573;&#1616;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575; &#1587;&#1614;&#1610;&#1614;&#1591;&#1614;&#1572;&#1615;&#1607;&#1615; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1614;&#1617;&#1580;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575;&#1604;&#1615; &#1573;&#1616;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575; &#1605;&#1614;&#1603;&#1614;&#1617;&#1577;&#1614; &#1608;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1605;&#1614;&#1583;&#1616;&#1610;&#1606;&#1614;&#1577;&#1614; &#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1587;&#1614; &#1604;&#1614;&#1607;&#1615; &#1605;&#1616;&#1606;&#1618; &#1606;&#1616;&#1602;&#1614;&#1575;&#1576;&#1616;&#1607;&#1614;&#1575; &#1606;&#1614;&#1602;&#1618;&#1576;&#1612; &#1573;&#1616;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575; &#1593;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1607;&#1616; &#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1605;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1575;&#1574;&#1616;&#1603;&#1614;&#1577;&#1615; &#1589;&#1614;&#1575;&#1601;&#1616;&#1617;&#1610;&#1606;&#1614; &#1610;&#1614;&#1581;&#1618;&#1585;&#1615;&#1587;&#1615;&#1608;&#1606;&#1614;&#1607;&#1614;&#1575; &#1579;&#1615;&#1605;&#1614;&#1617; &#1578;&#1614;&#1585;&#1618;&#1580;&#1615;&#1601;&#1615; &#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1605;&#1614;&#1583;&#1616;&#1610;&#1606;&#1614;&#1577;&#1615; &#1576;&#1616;&#1571;&#1614;&#1607;&#1618;&#1604;&#1616;&#1607;&#1614;&#1575; &#1579;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1575;&#1579;&#1614; &#1585;&#1614;&#1580;&#1614;&#1601;&#1614;&#1575;&#1578;&#1613; &#1601;&#1614;&#1610;&#1615;&#1582;&#1618;&#1585;&#1616;&#1580;&#1615; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1607;&#1615; &#1603;&#1615;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617; &#1603;&#1614;&#1575;&#1601;&#1616;&#1585;&#1613; &#1608;&#1614;&#1605;&#1615;&#1606;&#1614;&#1575;&#1601;&#1616;&#1602;&#1613; . (&#1589;&#1581;&#1610;&#1581; &#1575;&#1604;&#1576;&#1582;&#1575;&#1585;&#1610

AnasIbn Malik (radiallahu 'anhu) said: The Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihiwasallam) said: There is no town that Dajj&#257;l will not enter except Makkah and Madinah. There is no entrance of its entrances that is not guarded by angels in rows. Then, Madinah will quake with its people three times, and then Allah will bring out of it every k&#257;fir and mun&#257;fiq (hypocrite).

(Sah&#299;h Bukh&#257;r&#299

&#1602;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1614; &#1571;&#1614;&#1606;&#1614;&#1587;&#1615; &#1576;&#1618;&#1606;&#1615; &#1605;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1616;&#1603;&#1613; &#1602;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1614; &#1585;&#1614;&#1587;&#1615;&#1608;&#1604;&#1615; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1607;&#1616; &#1589;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1607;&#1615; &#1593;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1607;&#1616; &#1608;&#1614;&#1587;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1605;&#1614; &#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1587;&#1614; &#1605;&#1616;&#1606;&#1618; &#1576;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1583;&#1613; &#1573;&#1616;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575; &#1587;&#1614;&#1610;&#1614;&#1591;&#1614;&#1572;&#1615;&#1607;&#1615; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1614;&#1617;&#1580;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575;&#1604;&#1615; &#1573;&#1616;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575; &#1605;&#1614;&#1603;&#1614;&#1617;&#1577;&#1614; &#1608;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1605;&#1614;&#1583;&#1616;&#1610;&#1606;&#1614;&#1577;&#1614; &#1608;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1587;&#1614; &#1606;&#1614;&#1602;&#1618;&#1576;&#1612; &#1605;&#1616;&#1606;&#1618; &#1571;&#1614;&#1606;&#1618;&#1602;&#1614;&#1575;&#1576;&#1616;&#1607;&#1614;&#1575; &#1573;&#1616;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575; &#1593;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1607;&#1616; &#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1605;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1575;&#1574;&#1616;&#1603;&#1614;&#1577;&#1615; &#1589;&#1614;&#1575;&#1601;&#1616;&#1617;&#1610;&#1606;&#1614; &#1578;&#1614;&#1581;&#1618;&#1585;&#1615;&#1587;&#1615;&#1607;&#1614;&#1575; &#1601;&#1614;&#1610;&#1614;&#1606;&#1618;&#1586;&#1616;&#1604;&#1615; &#1576;&#1616;&#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1616;&#1617;&#1576;&#1618;&#1582;&#1614;&#1577;&#1616; &#1601;&#1614;&#1578;&#1614;&#1585;&#1618;&#1580;&#1615;&#1601;&#1615; &#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1605;&#1614;&#1583;&#1616;&#1610;&#1606;&#1614;&#1577;&#1615; &#1579;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1575;&#1579;&#1614; &#1585;&#1614;&#1580;&#1614;&#1601;&#1614;&#1575;&#1578;&#1613; &#1610;&#1614;&#1582;&#1618;&#1585;&#1615;&#1580;&#1615; &#1573;&#1616;&#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1607;&#1616; &#1605;&#1616;&#1606;&#1618;&#1607;&#1614;&#1575; &#1603;&#1615;&#1604;&#1615;&#1617; &#1603;&#1614;&#1575;&#1601;&#1616;&#1585;&#1613; &#1608;&#1614;&#1605;&#1615;&#1606;&#1614;&#1575;&#1601;&#1616;&#1602;&#1613; . &#1608;&#1585;&#1608;&#1575;&#1610;&#1577; &#1605;&#1605;&#1575;&#1579;&#1604;&#1577; &#1576;&#1606;&#1601;&#1587; &#1575;&#1604;&#1573;&#1587;&#1606;&#1575;&#1583; &#1594;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1585;&#1614; &#1571;&#1614;&#1606;&#1614;&#1617;&#1607;&#1615; &#1602;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1614; &#1601;&#1614;&#1610;&#1614;&#1571;&#1618;&#1578;&#1616;&#1610; &#1587;&#1616;&#1576;&#1618;&#1582;&#1614;&#1577;&#1614; &#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1580;&#1615;&#1585;&#1615;&#1601;&#1616; &#1601;&#1614;&#1610;&#1614;&#1590;&#1618;&#1585;&#1616;&#1576;&#1615; &#1585;&#1616;&#1608;&#1614;&#1575;&#1602;&#1614;&#1607;&#1615; &#1608;&#1614;&#1602;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1614; &#1601;&#1614;&#1610;&#1614;&#1582;&#1618;&#1585;&#1615;&#1580;&#1615; &#1573;&#1616;&#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1607;&#1616; &#1603;&#1615;&#1604;&#1615;&#1617; &#1605;&#1615;&#1606;&#1614;&#1575;&#1601;&#1616;&#1602;&#1613; &#1608;&#1614;&#1605;&#1615;&#1606;&#1614;&#1575;&#1601;&#1616;&#1602;&#1614;&#1577;&#1613; . (&#1589;&#1581;&#1610;&#1581; &#1605;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605

AnasIbn Malik said: The Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alaihiwasallam) said: There is no town that Dajj&#257;l will not enter except Makkah and Madinah. There is no entrance of its entrances that is not guarded by angels in rows. Dajj&#257;l will camp at a salty barren area, then Madinah will shake three times, and then every k&#257;fir and mun&#257;fiq (hypocrite) will come out of it to join him. In a similar narration with the same final chain of transmission, he says instead: He shall come to the barren salty area of Juruf and set up his camp. And he also said: And then every male and female hypocrite will come out to join him.

(Sah&#299;h Muslim)

&#1593;&#1614;&#1606;&#1618; &#1571;&#1614;&#1576;&#1616;&#1610; &#1607;&#1615;&#1585;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1585;&#1614;&#1577;&#1614; &#1571;&#1614;&#1606;&#1614;&#1617; &#1585;&#1614;&#1587;&#1615;&#1608;&#1604;&#1614; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1607;&#1616; &#1589;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1607;&#1615; &#1593;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1607;&#1616; &#1608;&#1614;&#1587;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1617;&#1605;&#1614; &#1602;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1614; &#1610;&#1614;&#1571;&#1618;&#1578;&#1616;&#1610; &#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1605;&#1614;&#1587;&#1616;&#1610;&#1581;&#1615; &#1605;&#1616;&#1606;&#1618; &#1602;&#1616;&#1576;&#1614;&#1604;&#1616; &#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1605;&#1614;&#1588;&#1618;&#1585;&#1616;&#1602;&#1616; &#1607;&#1616;&#1605;&#1614;&#1617;&#1578;&#1615;&#1607;&#1615; &#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1605;&#1614;&#1583;&#1616;&#1610;&#1606;&#1614;&#1577;&#1615; &#1581;&#1614;&#1578;&#1614;&#1617;&#1609; &#1610;&#1614;&#1606;&#1618;&#1586;&#1616;&#1604;&#1614; &#1583;&#1615;&#1576;&#1615;&#1585;&#1614; &#1571;&#1615;&#1581;&#1615;&#1583;&#1613; &#1579;&#1615;&#1605;&#1614;&#1617; &#1578;&#1614;&#1589;&#1618;&#1585;&#1616;&#1601;&#1615; &#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1605;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1575;&#1574;&#1616;&#1603;&#1614;&#1577;&#1615; &#1608;&#1614;&#1580;&#1618;&#1607;&#1614;&#1607;&#1615; &#1602;&#1616;&#1576;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614; &#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575;&#1605;&#1616; &#1608;&#1614;&#1607;&#1615;&#1606;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1616;&#1603;&#1614; &#1610;&#1614;&#1607;&#1618;&#1604;&#1616;&#1603;&#1615; . (&#1589;&#1581;&#1610;&#1581; &#1605;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605

Abu Huraira said: The Messenger of Allah sallallahu 'alaihiwasallam said: The False Messiah will come from the east, intending to go to Medina, until he encamps behind Uhud. Then, angels will divert his face (his direction) toward Sh&#257;m (The North, i.e., Greater Syria), and there he dies.

(Sah&#299;h Muslim)

These Ahad&#299;th indicate that Israel will eventually attack the Hij&#257;z. At that time Dajj&#257;l will be the leader of the Jewish State. Perhaps the Israeli forces will launch that attack because of the belief that Madinah is a part of the Holy Land (since the Jews lived in Madina for a long time).

When Israeli forces land outside Madinah, every supporter of the Zionists will leave the city to join the Israelis. The three times that Madinah will shake (resulting in the city being emptied of all Kuff&#257;ror disbelievers and Mun&#257;fiq&#363;n or hypocrites) could, perhaps, represent three revolutionary Islamic uprisings that would send tremors around the world.

In addition of course, there is also the well-known phenomenon of rats leaving a sinking ship. But this ship would not sink. Instead the angels would then divert the Israeli attack to Damascus and it would be at that time that Nabi Isa(alaihi al-Sal&#257;m) the true Messiah would dramatically descend to kill Dajj&#257;l the false Messiah.

It should please the heart of every sincere Muslim that the city of the Prophet (sallalahu alaihiwasallam) is destined to play such a dramatic and strategic role in &#256;khir al-Zam&#257;n when it returns to center-stage in both International and Islamic Affairs to separate those who remain faithful to Islam from those who have become Kuff&#257;r and Mun&#257;fiq&#363;n while serving the Anglo-American Judeo-Christian Zionist alliance. How wonderful it would be on that day for the world to witness the angels purifying and defending the city of the blessed Prophet (sallalahu alaihiwasallam) and diverting the Israeli attack to Damascus. One can only wonder how many scholars  if any - would be left in the Saudi-controlled Islamic University of Madinah after Madinah has shaken three times! May Allah guide and strengthen the sincere scholars of Islam in Saudi Arabia to rise up before Madinah shakes three times. Am&#299;n!

MADINAH RETURNS TO CENTER-STAGE IN AKHIR AL-ZAM?N


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## mahatir

MooshMoosh said:


> Are you kidding me? "Oh yeah, Iran is trusted, they don't spread sectarianism" *sarcasm*. Why do you think Sadat and Mubarak never allowed them to Egypt after 1979? You must be blinded of what they were doing in the Gulf region and the ME. I have no hatred for religions at all but with the Shiites loyal to the sick regime Iran yep. You do realize if Egypt chose to co'operate with Iran then they'll lose support to the GCC. Under Mubarak, Iran was banned and Shiites were barely known in public. He wouldn't do it for nothing but there is a reason for that.
> 
> Peace



Lets make it Clear Egypt is against both Taliban and Shia both of them are extremist and disgusting .



Frogman said:


> The actions of despotic regimes does not reflect the true will of the people. There has never been any hatred towards the majority of Egyptian people. The majority being those who are of faith but to a large extent moderate and tolerant of other sects or religions.



ya rayes mesh 3ayzeen islam seyasy fe masr , la salafiyeen wala she3a . 

el azhar is the only institution responsible for islam in Egypt , any foreign ideology should be kept out , kefaya keda , secular country is the only way for the country to move ahead. 

Egypt first and then anything comes next.



Zarvan said:


> Egypt army is proving itself to be bunch off retards and your comments are enough to show why something is happening to a certain community and it would be Egyptian army responsible for civil war



Sorry but the muslim card does not work with Egyptians , it seems you have no idea what your talking about , and Egyptian Army mentality is totally different than pakistan army which harboured people like biladen .

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## JonAsad

Juice said:


> Do you know what a Copt is? (speaking of ill-informed)



A christian minority of Egypt- what about it?-


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## Biplab Bijay

iranigirl2 said:


> Karma for calling Shias names and threatening to wipe them off... I'm sure somewhere Assad is Laughing his A S S off.......
> 
> 
> I hope the next president is not sectarian and respects ALL EGYPTIANS!
> 
> Good luck to Egypt.
> 
> 
> I wish my people were as courageous as Egyptians.




Off-topic : iranigirl. No offence. But being a muslim you believe in Hindu concept like karma ?

On topic : actually if you look into history, you will see that each and every revolution replace an old dictator with a new one.


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## Patriots

Bad news ... This should not be happened ... But international players is playing their political games .....

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## mahatir

Solomon2 said:


> Who elected _you_ to speak for a billion Muslims?



The Muslim card does not work with Egyptians , I can bet you on that , otherwise those millions would have not kicked morsi out and ignored the threats of Alqauda and hamas.

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## MooshMoosh

Zarvan said:


> Muslims want shariah and it would come either peacefully or through bloodbath but it would come


Apparently from what I have heard that there was a recent threat from armed bediouns from Sinai, Egyptian
Islamic Jihad and other Islamist supporters. Firstly, electing a Christian as an interim minister was an insult for them. Secondly, the recent attack in Alexandria and Cairo where seculars were assaulting women and attacking Mosques while others praying reminded them of the dark days of Mubarak that feared the seculars would be like him when elected. When Morsi refused to step down, he knew he was going to get ousted because in order to get him ousted, it will lead to an armed conflict between supporters and opponents and the army defense chief knew also before the coup he said he will defend Egypt from terrorist and ignorance. The people are still excited but they shouldn't because it's not over yet and they may be deaf and blind for not hearing the serious threats via social sites and media coming from the supporters after the coup. I blame the opposition for causing choas in streets like attacking mosques and hurting supporters for being 'over excited'. This may sound like what happened in the Algerian civil war but this one is different.


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## Imran Khan

they need one sou mouto factory  as we have

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

When the Taksim protests errupted by sponsorship of West media in Istanbul, EU leading governments and USA constantly were slaming Turkey in hardest tone for using water cannons and tear gas againist protestors. They branded police intervention as horrible, terrible and soon..

Now, West world is acclaiming military coup of Juntas against an democratically elected govertnment by majority of people. and accept no violation of prenciples of democracy and human rights..

West wolrd will have no influnce in the world when they lost entire of their champion role of democracy and freedom..

They wasting their credibility due to their hypociritical policies toward the rest of world.

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## Developereo

Yeti said:


> This all started with that one Tunisian street vendor who set himself on fire (God rest his soul) after we had the Arab Spring, Bahrain, Syria and Egypt is going round and round in circles when will all this end?? is this the start of the end times? the Kaliyuga and the likes?



The turmoil in Egypt will not end until a new puppet (Mubarak #2) is installed.

The army and their Saudi/US backers just moved a piece into place.

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## Yeti

Developereo said:


> The turmoil in Egypt will not end until a new puppet (Mubarak #2) is installed.
> 
> The army and their Saudi/US backers just moved a piece into place.




What was the whole point of this merry go round if we back to square one? just makes no sense to me anymore all this


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## Anees

1) Today Egypt , Next Who ???? 

2) Now People Have Two Choice Democracy Or Sharia ???


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## Developereo

Yeti said:


> What was the whole point of this merry go round if we back to square one? just makes no sense to me anymore all this



Mubarak was a ruthless tyrant, a thug who stole billions from the Egyptian nation, but a useful ally for the Saudis and Americans. Do you really think they would let go of such a useful chess piece?

Their stooge was ousted by the Egyptian people, so a suitable drama had to be engineered to install a new puppet. There is always a sore bunch of losers who don't like the result of democratic elections, and they can be encouraged to throw loud public tantrums as cover for the puppet reinstatement.

P.S. It's a birthday present from the servant (Egyptian army) to their master and benefactor. At least some Saudis are honest enough to admit that all this is not about what the Egyptians want, but what the Saudis (and their Western allies) want.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...ngratulates-egypts-new-interim-president.html

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## Yeti

Developereo said:


> Mubarak was a ruthless tyrant, a thug who stole billions from the Egyptian nation, but a useful ally for the Saudis and Americans. Do you really think they would let go of such a useful chess piece?
> 
> Their stooge was ousted by the Egyptian people, so a suitable drama had to be engineered to install a new puppet. There is always a sore bunch of losers who don't like the result of democratic elections, and they can be encouraged to throw loud public tantrums as cover for the puppet reinstatement.




Morsi got 52% of the votes right? so he won the election fair and square. After he won some people and those in the military were unhappy about his leadership when it came to running the economy not to mention the constitution having religious bits added to it. 

What I want to know is from Morsi getting 52% of the vote has a certain % of his supporters deserted him and moved to the opposition? does he still have the majority of support in Egypt? this is what I am unclear about.


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## Developereo

Yeti said:


> Morsi got 52% of the votes right? so he won the election fair and square. After he won some people and those in the military were unhappy about his leadership when it came to running the economy not to mention the constitution having religious bits added to it.
> 
> What I want to know is from Morsi getting 52% of the vote has a certain % of his supporters deserted him and moved to the opposition? does he still have the majority of support in Egypt? this is what I am unclear about.



I don't know the procedure in the Egyptian Constitution, but this is surely not the way to address it. In other countries, you can call for a vote of no-confidence, impeachment, new elections, etc -- NOT the army to take over.

Most democratic elections are won with narrow margins -- what was Obama's or G.W.'s margin? The losing side is usually livid -- the narrower the margin, the more livid. But it doesn't mean the army should take over and suspend the constitution, just because the losers threw a loud enough tantrum.

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## Yeti

Developereo said:


> I don't know the procedure in the Egyptian Constitution, but this is surely not the way to address it.
> 
> Most democratic elections are won with narrow margins -- what was Obama's or G.W.'s margin? The losing side is usually livid -- the narrower the margin, the more livid. But it doesn't mean the army should take over and suspend the constitution, just because the losers threw a loud enough tantrum.




My view is that there should be a national referendum on what the people want in the constitution for the country and after for a free and transparent election to take place. The most important part is that the winner whomever may that be gets to finish their term in office without threats or civil unrest, if people are unhappy about his performance they can always vote him out in the next election that is what democracy is.

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## Developereo

Yeti said:


> My view is that there should be a national referendum on what the people want in the constitution for the country and after for a free and transparent election to take place. The most important part is that the winner whomever may that be gets to finish their term in office without threats or civil unrest, if people are unhappy about his performance they can always vote him out in the next election that is what democracy is.



That would be ideal, but this is not about the ideal world.

This is a strong message to the rest of the Arab world: play around all you want with democracy, but the result must be acceptable to the powers that be.

It's a twist on the old joke, "the accused will be given a fair trial before being hanged".

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## Juice

JonAsad said:


> A christian minority of Egypt- what about it?-


 When talking of minority rights he meant them.....not sunni-shia thing.



Developereo said:


> Mubarak was a ruthless tyrant, a thug who stole billions from the Egyptian nation, but a useful ally for the Saudis and Americans. Do you really think they would let go of such a useful chess piece?
> 
> Their stooge was ousted by the Egyptian people, so a suitable drama had to be engineered to install a new puppet. There is always a sore bunch of losers who don't like the result of democratic elections, and they can be encouraged to throw loud public tantrums as cover for the puppet reinstatement.
> 
> P.S. It's a birthday present from the servant (Egyptian army) to their master and benefactor. At least some Saudis are honest enough to admit that all this is not about what the Egyptians want, but what the Saudis (and their Western allies) want.
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...ngratulates-egypts-new-interim-president.html


 Yeah.....Americans Jooos and Saudis were there forcing those people into the street.....


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## Developereo

Juice said:


> Yeah.....Americans Jooos and Saudis were there forcing those people into the street.....



The Egyptian media is dominated by the pro-Western crowd.

Anyone who supports Morsi is described as an "Islamist". Anyone who opposes him is shown as a patriot.

If the Egyptian media were dominated by the other side, they would have portrayed the demonstrators as anti-democracy, Mubarak loyalists.

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## iranigirl2

mahatir said:


> Morsi has done many things that if obama ever have done would have been impeached by the american congress .
> 
> 1) Morsi mobs sieged egypt constitutional court for 4 weeks to force them to take a court ruling meeting their agenda
> 2) Morsi mobs attacked and terrorized minorities and other muslims for carrying a different political belief .
> 3) Morsi created a constitution without a national consensus that only met his party interests and used bribery and terrorism during voting date to pass his racist constitution which would have turned Egypt into another afghanistan
> 4) Morsi decided to appoint one of his allies as Egypt highest prosecutor so that he could use him in detaining all his political opponents and one example was Bassem yousef who was arrested more than once for criticizing morsi policies.
> 5) Morsi mobs wanted to reduce legal marriage age in Egypt from 18 to 10 years.
> 6) Morsi appointed an Egyptian terrorist as the governor of assiyut , a person who killed 122 foreign tourists in Egypt during the 1990s .
> 7) Morsi one sided policies ruined the Egyptian economy and made foreign investors and tourists escape egypt for good.
> 
> I can keep going on and on but I am sure if the USA had a clown president like morsi he would not even survive a day in office.
> 
> 
> 
> Political Islam is coming to an end in Egypt .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont spam this page with Iran conflicts with USA , most of the Americans were against morsi including the congress , Obama has his own flawed foreign policy that neither the US Army or congress agree with.
> 
> Egyptians are fighting for a free country and not a rogue state .



All the pictures are from Egypt, and it's important to know what Egyptians think about USA interference in their country. But you know,your sick obsession with my country doesn't let you think straight and you just had to drag Iran into discussion. 

If there is freedom of expression in Egypt, they should feel free to express their ideas about USA interference and huge large amount of money it gives to Egypt. How does this constitute a rogue state.


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## Harmonia Dragon

*AshSham, Iraq, Egypt, Kuwait*

Narrated from Ka'b bin Alqama : "There will be, after the Fitna (trouble) in AshSham, an eastern one (Fitna) which will be the devastation of the kings and the humiliation of the Arabs, until the people of the Maghrib come out." (Nuaim bin Hammad, Kitab al-Fitan, No. 53)



The people of AsSham (Greater Syria) will take prisoner the tribes of Egypt. (Ibn Hajar Haytahami, Al-Qawl Al-Mukhtasar fi Alamat Al-Mahdi Al-Muntazar, p. 49)



Ibn Hajr Al-'Asqalani narrated that Abu Idris Al-Khaulani heard from Nahik bin Surim Al-Sakuni that the Messenger of Allah, Muhammad, &#1589;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1608;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605; said: "You will fight the unbelievers until the remnant of you fight on the River Jordan, you on the East of it and they on the West of it." (Ahmad)



The following narration seems to be about Kuwait or Israel: "And war in a country smaller than the end bone of the spinal cord, the World will gather for its sake, as if it is the richest nation in the world for which the world has gathered to feast around. Its leader will surrender the banner to the leader of all Evil, which will come from the furthest Western shores, then the beginning of the end as it wails to all the World to come to its aid. The leader will regain his throne and Iraq will be destroyed in the confrontation at the end of time. The leader of the tiny nation will fight the Army of the Mahdi, and the same tiny nation is again threatened with destruction because its leader is the cause of its corruption....the Mahdi orders his execution and the small bone returns to the main body again". (Qalda bin Zayd bin Baraka's Asma Masalik Li Ayyam Mahdi: Malik Li Kull id-Dunya Bi Amr Allah El-Malik)



Baghdad is destroyed by fire in the End Times...(Resalat Khuruj Al-Mahdi, vol. 3, p. 177) 



Doomsday will not come until Iraq is attacked and innocent people in Iraq will seek shelter in AshSham. AshSham will be reconstructed and Iraq will be reconstructed. (Muntakhab Kanzul Ummal, vol. 5 p. 254)




Muslim bin Abi Bakra said that Messenger of Allah &#1589;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1608;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605; said: "Some of my people will settle on low-lying land, which they will call Al-Basra (this probably refers to Baghdad which was not established at the time of the Prophet), beside a river called Dajla (the Tigris) over which there is a bridge. Its people will be numerous and it will be one of the cities of immigrants. (or one of the cities of Muslims, according to the version of Ibn Yahya who reported from Abu Ma'mar). At the end of time, the descendants (people) of Qantura' (Turkic Mongolians) will come with broad faces and small eyes and land on the bank of the river. Its (Basra's) inhabitants will then split into three groups: one of them will follow cattle and (live in) the desert but they will perish, another of which will seek security arrangement for themselves (from the Turkic Mongolians) but they will perish, but a third will put their children behind their backs and fight the invaders, and they will be the martyrs." (Abu Dawud)



Anas bin Malik said that the Prophet &#1589;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1608;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605; said: " O Anas, the people will settle down in cities, and one of them will be called Al-Basra or al-Busayra. If you should pass by it or enter it, avoid its salt-marshes, its Kilaa (vicinity in Basra), its marketplace, and the gate of its princes, and stay in its suburbs (or outskirts), because for it, there will be Khusf (landslide or the Earth will swallow up people), Qazf (bombardment, pelting with stones, Earth will throw out the dead people after they get buried ) and Rajf (tremor or earthquake), and there will be people who will spend the night in it and become apes and swine in the morning. (Abu Dawud) Al-Tibi commented that the Maskh is supposed to happen to those who do not believe in Qadar." (Abu Dawud)



"The people of Kufa will be divided into three groups (or parties). One group will join the Sufyani army. These are the most wicked people Allah created. Another group will wage war against them, and these people are the honorable servants of Allah. Another group will join the pillagers, and they are sinners." (An-Najmu Athaqib Fi Bayan Aal Al-Mahdi min Awlad Ali Bin Abi Talib)



According to the Prophet &#1589;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1608;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605; , "The people of Iraq will be divided into three groups. One part will join the looters. One group will flee, leaving their families behind. And one group will fight and kill. Prepare yourselves for Doomsday when you see this." (Faraid Fawaid Fikr fi Imam al-Mahdi al-Muntazhar)



"The tribulation in AshSham (Greater Syria) will calm down on the one hand and flare up again on another. This corruption will not end until an angel from the sky calls: 'The Mahdi is your leader. The Mahdi is your caliph.'" (Risalat Khuruj al-Mahdi, p. 63)



Our Prophet &#1589;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1608;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605; said: " There will be such troubles and calamities that nobody will be able to find a place of shelter. These woes will move around AshSham (Greater Syria), fall upon Iraq and tie the hands and feet of the Arabian Peninsula. A group of Muslims will fight against troubles in the steppes. Nobody will feel any sympathy for them or even say, 'Alas!' As they try to remedy their woes from one side, the woes will emerge again on the other side." (Muntakhab Kanz Al-Ummal, vol. 5, pp. 38-39) 



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Abu Nadhrah says: "We were sitting in the company of Jaber bin Abdullah when he said: " Soon the people of Iraq will neither receive any food (grain) nor any money.' We asked, Why would such a thing happen? He replied: 'Because of the Al-Agam (Persians or Non-Arabs).' He then said: 'Soon the people of AshSham (Greater Syria) will neither receive any money nor grain.' We asked as to why this would happen. He replied: 'Because of the Romans.' Then he was silent a while and then said the Messenger of Allah &#1589;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1608;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605; said 'there will be at the end of my nation a Caliph (possibly Al-Mahdi) who grabs money with his hands (and give it away) without counting it... ". (Sahih Muslim)



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Abu Huraira said that Allah's Messenger &#1589;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1608;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605; said: "Iraq will withhold its dirhams and qafiz; Syria will withhold its mudd and dinar and Egypt will withhold its irdab and dinar. You will return to that position from where you started. You will return to that position from where you started. The flesh and blood of Abu Huraira bears testimony to it." (Sahih Muslim)



There will be devastation all around the World. Ultimately, Egypt will also be ruined, but until Basra is destroyed, Egypt will remain secure. The destruction of Basra will be due to Iraq's destruction. Meanwhile, the downfall of Egypt will come with the drying up of the Nile... (Qurtubi, Mukhtasar Tazkirah, p. 530)



"When there comes to you a document from the East that will be read out to you as: "From the slave of Allah, 'Abdullah, Amir al-Mu'mineen (Prince of the Faithful Believers)," then await another document coming to you from the West that will be read out to you as: "From the slave of Allah, 'Abd-Rahman, Amir al-Mu'mineen (Prince of the Faithful Believers)." Then, by He (God) in whose hand is Huzayfa's soul, you will fight them near Al-Qantarah, and they will expel you far, far away from the land of Egypt and the land of AshSham, and an Arabian woman will be sold at the stairs of Damascus for twenty-five dirhams." (Nuaim bin Hammad, Kitab al-Fitan, No. 52)

End Time Wars


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## JonAsad

Juice said:


> When talking of minority rights he meant them.....not sunni-shia thing.



I know what he meant- Who are involved in the uprising as you call it?- 10% Minority?- is that the case?-


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## Hussein

Patriots said:


> Bad news ... This should not be happened ... But international players is playing their political games .....


you mean , west paid millions people to demonstrate / protest ?

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## Algeria

This coup is a devastating blow to the arab spring, what a tragedy.

I guess Saudis, UAE & Israel reached their ultimate goal, a complete coup under the pretence of democracy.

How pathetic are the Egyptians who demanded the coup against Egypt's first democratically elected leader. As soon as it was announced 500 pilgrims from Gaza heading to KSA were forced to go back minutes before their flight. I guess the blockade has already restarted!

Remember Mursi was only months in office before he as ousted and he was expected to fix 30 years of corruption!
His biggest mistake was going for the corrupt elite. You can play sharia all you want but when you expose the tax evasions of big businessmen and not say yes to every Israeli or American demand, then its time to go. 
The crucial part is that they had the media in their hands, so they can brain wash the mostly illiterate population who would protest all night for $.
Its needless to say that the classless Saudi king immediately congratulated the Egyptian army and the new "president" but at the same time consider the protesters as khwarij!!

But as for Egypt, its effectively a military country with a civilian mask, the MB were the brief exception to that. Who ever rules after the interim minster will crush any kind of decent with approval of the military and police. 

Some times people can get used to slavery, Tamarrud movement was a clear example of that.

The last hope is Syria, I am 100% sure they are planning a kind of sahwa like Iraq or a coup like this.

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## Developereo

Hussein said:


> you mean , west paid millions people to demonstrate / protest ?



Have you forgotten the CIA's involvement in ousting Mossadeq to install the Shah of Iran?

There are always sore losers in any close election, and it's a well known science to manipulate and exploit such feelings to a desired end.

Mubarak was a dutiful stooge.

Morsi, on the other hand, was improving relations with China, Iran, Russia.

He had to go!

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## RazPaK

Arabs and Persians have ruined Islam. I hope they wipe eachother out.


I have hazara friends. They believe in Allah swt, and so do I.

So why are they my enemy? Because they are Shia and I am Sunni?

No, its..

Because of arab and iranian immaturity.

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## Hussein

Developereo said:


> Have you forgotten the CIA's involvement in ousting Mossadeq to install the Shah of Iran?
> 
> There are always sore losers in any close election, and it's a well known science to manipulate and exploit such feelings to a desired end.


we never forget it

but it was very absolutely different .
CIA supported the shah and the participation of CIA was there but not as much as the shah thugs . shah is the number one responsible. but yeah we can blame cia .. in that period they were very active to make cheat in the world (south america especially)

the difference is:
shah was ruler and people were clearly side of Mosaddeq
in Egypt people are side of anti Morsi and if cia was involved then it would mean they were the side of people, not like with Mosaddeq time

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## Juice

Developereo said:


> The Egyptian media is dominated by the pro-Western crowd.
> 
> Anyone who supports Morsi is described as an "Islamist". Anyone who opposes him is shown as a patriot.
> 
> If the Egyptian media were dominated by the other side, they would have portrayed the demonstrators as anti-democracy, Mubarak loyalists.


 Lol....half here are saying the US supported Morsi....half say we are having him thrown out. Which is it? (the comments on American sites are mostly of the opinion that the Muslim Brotherhood got what they had coming)


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## Developereo

Hussein said:


> in Egypt people are side of anti Morsi



The anti-Morsi crowd are the usual pro-West vocal crowd.

They are very tech- and media-savvy. They dominate the internet and the media. They know how to get the world's attention.

Don't you find it surprising that all these rallies have banners in English? Who in Egypt needs banners in English?

When's the last time you saw a French, Japanese or German protest with English banners?



Juice said:


> Lol....half here are saying the US supported Morsi....



The US only "supported" Morsi perfunctorily, to keep up the banner of "defender of democracy around the world". After all, the US government has to keep the domestic public fooled, just as well as the international crowd.

Mubarak was a dutiful stooge. There was no way Morsi would be anywhere near as pliable as Mubarak was.

And, remember, I am not defending Moris or his policies. I am defending the principles of democracy that, if you don't like the result, you don't go around throwing loud tantrums until you get your way -- or get the army to do your dirty work. You use democratic mechanisms.

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## Algeria

Juice said:


> Lol....half here are saying the US supported Morsi....half say we are having him thrown out. Which is it? (the comments on American sites are mostly of the opinion that the Muslim Brotherhood got what they had coming)



You Americans have no say in this, the military went through with the coup even after threats of cutting aid. They made a calculated mistake and the hope the Algerian civil war is not repeated even though it seems inevitable.


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## Juice

I didn't say we did....just that the comments hint at that. (ps....we have a say in everything....like it or not)


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## somebozo

> I am perplexed by Arab hypocrisy. Al Quaida terrorist in Syria are good guys, their auxiliary proxy in Egypt are bad. Finally end of shariah nonsense in Egypt...Turks should grab some shame!




Gulf states welcome ouster of Egypt's president
July 04 2013 08:30
Rise of Mursi's Muslim Brotherhood has unsettled most rulers in Gulf Arab states
By Reuters
Thursday, 4 July 2013 8:30 AM

An Egyptian protester waves the national flag during a demonstration against president Mohamed Mursi and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt's landmark Tahrir square. (AFP/Getty Images)
Gulf Arab states welcomed the Egyptian army's ouster of Islamist President Mohamed Mursi on Wednesday following days of unrest in a country once seen by Gulf Arabs as an instrumental ally against rival power Iran.

The rise of Mursi's Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt following the ouster of President Hosni Mubarak in 2011 has unsettled most Gulf Arab states, including the UAE, which feared it would embolden Islamists at home.

Qatar was alone among Gulf Arab states in celebrating the 2011 Arab Spring revolt that toppled Mubarak, a foe of Iran and a longtime ally of the hereditary states that sit on nearly a quarter of the world's oil reserves.

Saudi state news agency SPA said King Abdullah sent a message of congratulations to the head of the Egyptian Constitutional Court, Adli Mansour, who had been appointed as interim head of state.

"In the name of the people of Saudi Arabia and on my behalf, we congratulate your leadership of Egypt in this critical period of its history. We pray for God to help you bear the responsibility laid upon you to achieve the ambitions of our brotherly people of Egypt," the message said.

The statement also praised the Egyptian armed forces for leading Egypt out of what it said was a "tunnel that only God knows its dimensions and repercussions".

The United Arab Emirates also welcomed the change in Egypt, according to state news agency WAM, and praised the Egyptian armed forces.

"His Highness Abdullah bin Zayed al-Nahayan, the Foreign Minister of the UAE, expressed his full confidence that the great people of Egypt are able to cross these difficult moments that Egypt is going through," WAM said in a statement.

"Sheikh Abdullah said that the great Egyptian army was able to prove again that they are the fence of Egypt and that they are the protector and strong shield that guarantee Egypt will remain a state of institutions and law," it added.

There was no word from Qatar, the only Gulf Arab country to have publicly sided with the Muslim Brotherhood.

Witnesses said the country deployed extra police forces around the Egyptian Embassy in Doha.

Qatar's emir stepped down last week in favour of his son, raising speculation the world's largest exporter of liquefied natural gas may be reconsidering its support for the Muslim Brotherhood.

Influential Muslim cleric Youssef al-Qaradawi, an Egyptian seen close to the Muslim Brotherhood who had lived in Qatar for many years, is reported to be in Egypt. He had denied reports that Qatar's new emir, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al-Thani, had asked him to leave the country.

Qatar has been a major financier of the Islamist groups around the Arab World, including Egypt's Brotherhood.

2013 Arabian Business Publishing Ltd. All rights reserved.


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## somebozo

MooshMoosh said:


> Apparently from what I have heard that there was a recent threat from armed bediouns from Sinai, Egyptian
> Islamic Jihad and other Islamist supporters. Firstly, electing a Christian as an interim minister was an insult for them. Secondly, the recent attack in Alexandria and Cairo where seculars were assaulting women and attacking Mosques while others praying reminded them of the dark days of Mubarak that feared the seculars would be like him when elected. When Morsi refused to step down, he knew he was going to get ousted because in order to get him ousted, it will lead to an armed conflict between supporters and opponents and the army defense chief knew also before the coup he said he will defend Egypt from terrorist and ignorance. The people are still excited but they shouldn't because it's not over yet and they may be deaf and blind for not hearing the serious threats via social sites and media coming from the supporters after the coup. I blame the opposition for causing choas in streets like attacking mosques and hurting supporters for being 'over excited'. This may sound like what happened in the Algerian civil war but this one is different.



How can idiots like these run a country?

News: Egyptian MP&#39;s call to prayer (adhan) in parliament met with anger [Egypt 9 Feb 2012] - YouTube


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## iranigirl2

*Israel fears Jihadist attacks after Morsi's ouster *


State officials warn growing instability in Egypt will create vacuum in Sinai which could be exploited for execution of terror attacks. 'Israel enjoyed good security cooperation with Morsi's Egypt,' says one official.

A day after the Egyptian army deposed President Mohamed Morsi and suspended the constitution, Israel is concerned that Jihadists will exploit the situation to carry out terror attacks. 



"It's hard to believe the Egyptians will overcome the ever-deepening polarization between the Islamist Egypt and the secular Egypt," an Israeli state official estimated Wednesday. 


"Ultimately, they will have no choice but to find an agreed-upon framework for cooperation but until they do, we might see violent clashes," he added. 



On Wednesday, former Defense Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer remarked that "The Muslim Brotherhood's bizarre regime is over and done with. If a secular candidate wins it will have a huge impact on the entire Middle East." 



State officials describe the current situation in Cairo as a nerve-wracking game of poker. "On the one hand, Morsi doesn't want to resign; on the other, the army doesn't want to take full responsibility. Egyptians are starting to realize that Islam is not the answer. It provides them with no solution to the economic situation," one state official said. 


He noted that Israel enjoyed good security cooperation with Egypt under Morsi's leadership. "It's not about us, we're monitoring the situation from the sidelines." 


The Prime Minister's bureau has ordered the cabinet not to publically discuss Egypt. 

Government officials denied reports that Israel has allowed the Egyptian army to deploy reinforcements in the Sinai Peninsula. 



However, the past few days have seen increased military activity in the border area with Egyptians trying to seal smuggling tunnels between Gaza and Egypt. The Egyptian army is hoping to prevent the movement of Hamas militants from the Strip to Egypt and thwart the smuggling of weapons into the country. 



State officials have admitted that growing instability in Egypt would make it harder for the Egyptians to maintain their control in Sinai. The main concern is that Jihadists will use the vacuum to try to carry out terrorist attacks against Israel or the Egyptian army. 


Israel fears Jihadist attacks after Morsi's ouster - Israel News, Ynetnews


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## MooshMoosh

Pics of arrest


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## somebozo

An Egyptian family on motorcycle celebrates in Cairo on July 3, 2013 after a broadcast confirming that the army will temporarily be taking over from the country's first democratically elected president Mohammed Morsi. In their tens of thousands, they cheered, ignited firecrackers and honked horns as soon as the army announced President Mohamed Morsi's rule was over, ending Egypt's worst crisis since its 2011 revolt. (AFP/Getty Images)





Fireworks light up the sky as Hundreds of thousands of Egyptians celebrate after Egytptian Defense Minister Abdel Fattah al-Sisi's speech announcing The Egyptian army toppling Islamist President Mohamed Morsi in Egypt's landmark Tahrir square on July 3, 2013 in Cairo, Egypt. Opposition leader Mohamed ElBaradei and the heads of the Coptic Church and Al-Azhar -- Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning -- will unveil an army roadmap for Egypt's future after President Mohamed Morsi, state television said. (AFP/Getty Images)






An Egyptian family celebrates in Cairo on July 3, 2013 after a broadcast confirming that the army will temporarily be taking over from the country's first democratically elected president Mohammed Morsi. In their tens of thousands, they cheered, ignited firecrackers and honked horns as soon as the army announced President Mohamed Morsi's rule was over, ending Egypt's worst crisis since its 2011 revolt. (AFP/Getty Images)

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## iranigirl2

Egypt Debate Heats Up Outside White House - YouTube


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## Hussein

Developereo said:


> When's the last time you saw a *French*, Japanese or German protest with English banners?


well i would say some Egyptian knew that it was good to remind Obama not to support Morsi and let the people decide
and not make pressure on army. i guess this is what it says, especially when you can see in the crowd as well banners with "Obama is supporting Morsi". i guess they were worried.

in France of course that's different: USA didn't have influence on army or politics even.
the country considers USA a friend (even if some last events walk on their nerves)


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## Zarvan

somebozo said:


> An Egyptian family on motorcycle celebrates in Cairo on July 3, 2013 after a broadcast confirming that the army will temporarily be taking over from the country's first democratically elected president Mohammed Morsi. In their tens of thousands, they cheered, ignited firecrackers and honked horns as soon as the army announced President Mohamed Morsi's rule was over, ending Egypt's worst crisis since its 2011 revolt. (AFP/Getty Images)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fireworks light up the sky as Hundreds of thousands of Egyptians celebrate after Egytptian Defense Minister Abdel Fattah al-Sisi's speech announcing The Egyptian army toppling Islamist President Mohamed Morsi in Egypt's landmark Tahrir square on July 3, 2013 in Cairo, Egypt. Opposition leader Mohamed ElBaradei and the heads of the Coptic Church and Al-Azhar -- Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning -- will unveil an army roadmap for Egypt's future after President Mohamed Morsi, state television said. (AFP/Getty Images)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Egyptian family celebrates in Cairo on July 3, 2013 after a broadcast confirming that the army will temporarily be taking over from the country's first democratically elected president Mohammed Morsi. In their tens of thousands, they cheered, ignited firecrackers and honked horns as soon as the army announced President Mohamed Morsi's rule was over, ending Egypt's worst crisis since its 2011 revolt. (AFP/Getty Images)



Shariah will be back no body can stop it still Muslim brother hood has support of Millions in Egypt and also the Salafists they also have support of millions tout of kufr cannot stop shariah from coming they can delay it for sometime but not stop it is inevitable


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## jnd3x0

Zarvan said:


> Shariah will be back no body can stop it still Muslim brother hood has support of Millions in Egypt and also the Salafists they also have support of millions tout of kufr cannot stop shariah from coming they can delay it for sometime but not stop it is inevitable



Radical speaking the language that he learned from mullah radio BS

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## Zarvan

jnd3x0 said:


> Radical speaking the language that he learned from mullah radio BS



Sir you will see soon Sir just wait and watch Sir Muslim brother has faced these things for 60 years they are still their those who did it to them they are all gone and these new cartoons will also become history and by trying to throw brother hood out you will make Salafis more stronger because Saudi Arabia will play their game and they would funds Salafis more and they are far more so called radicals than brother hood guys


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## Manindra

Yeti said:


> I pray to God one day the Military will take over Hindustan and rid of us this gandhi family rule they will do a much better job in looking after the people and fixing our economy just see what they did with the floods they broke world records!
> 
> Pray for the people of Egypt there will be peace but my Muslim brotherhood friend is gonna be pissed on Yahoo lol ill see what he says on this when I see him next



But our Armed forces chiefs shakes on their legs if our so shy MMS focus his concentrate eye on them
GOI is very good for India , we should work to make best for India.


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## shuntmaster

Good for Egypt. I'm happy for the Egyptians..

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## Jihad_

This is the end of democracy, soon we'll see an authocratic islamic regime. Just watch.


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## iranigirl2

Should the U.S. call it a military coup? - YouTube

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## 474474

BDforever said:


> WTH ! ! ! so sick  so these kind of people want to bring down morsi ? so that they can do more disgusting work like this ?



Did you even read the article?


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## Manindra

Yeti said:


> God willing I would welcome it I have no fear of the Military I have family members in the forces and know the nature of the men they are true sons and daughters of the soil who put their lives on the line to protect us.



For you

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/259550-indian-army-could-called-rescue-falling-rupee-economy.html

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## Devil Soul

*NINETY-ONE women protesters raped and sexually abused in Tahrir Square in just four days*
At least 23 killed in overnight clashes in Cairo and 200 more injured
The Al-Ahram newspaper reports that the army could step in today
Anti-Morsi demonstrations have become the largest since the 2011 Arab Spring uprising as they enter the third day of protests 
Deadline set by military for resolution fast approaches before it will intervene 
U.S. and UK have urged citizens to cancel travel plans to or within Egypt
Protests caused Egyptian shares to reach three-week high as oil prices soar 
By STEVE NOLAN
PUBLISHED: 07:52 GMT, 3 July 2013 | UPDATED: 09:25 GMT, 4 July 2013


Read more: Egypt protests 2013: Sex attacks and rapes against women protesters in Tahir Square hit 91 in four days as Egypt's army moves into state TV offices | Mail Online 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

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## Jihad_

Devil Soul said:


> *NINETY-ONE women protesters raped and sexually abused in Tahrir Square in just four days*
> At least 23 killed in overnight clashes in Cairo and 200 more injured
> The Al-Ahram newspaper reports that the army could step in today
> Anti-Morsi demonstrations have become the largest since the 2011 Arab Spring uprising as they enter the third day of protests
> Deadline set by military for resolution fast approaches before it will intervene
> U.S. and UK have urged citizens to cancel travel plans to or within Egypt
> Protests caused Egyptian shares to reach three-week high as oil prices soar
> By STEVE NOLAN
> PUBLISHED: 07:52 GMT, 3 July 2013 | UPDATED: 09:25 GMT, 4 July 2013
> 
> 
> Read more: Egypt protests 2013: Sex attacks and rapes against women protesters in Tahir Square hit 91 in four days as Egypt's army moves into state TV offices | Mail Online
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook



That's the freedom for those thugs.


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## Patriots

Hussein said:


> you mean , west paid millions people to demonstrate / protest ?



There is no need to pay millions of people ... Some thugs have ability to gather millions of people

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## Cyrus the Great

enjoy with your hatred about Persian. that is end of brotherhood in regoin, you all play in US court, and will see end of all pupets. Qatar is only start, Turkey is the next, Morsi third., .....

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## Cyrus the Great

MooshMoosh said:


> Are you kidding me? "Oh yeah, Iran is trusted, they don't spread sectarianism" *sarcasm*. Why do you think Sadat and Mubarak never allowed them to Egypt after 1979? You must be blinded of what they were doing in the Gulf region and the ME. I have no hatred for religions at all but with the Shiites loyal to the sick regime Iran yep. You do realize if Egypt chose to co'operate with Iran then they'll lose support to the GCC. Under Mubarak, Iran was banned and Shiites were barely known in public. He wouldn't do it for nothing but there is a reason for that.
> 
> Peace



How do you write "peace" end of your post while your black heart is full of hate. your first enemy is your own hate.

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## Cyrus the Great

mahatir said:


> Lets make it Clear Egypt is against both Taliban and Shia both of them are extremist and disgusting .
> 
> 
> 
> ya rayes mesh 3ayzeen islam seyasy fe masr , la salafiyeen wala she3a .
> 
> el azhar is the only institution responsible for islam in Egypt , any foreign ideology should be kept out , kefaya keda , secular country is the only way for the country to move ahead.
> 
> Egypt first and then anything comes next.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry but the muslim card does not work with Egyptians , it seems you have no idea what your talking about , and Egyptian Army mentality is totally different than pakistan army which harboured people like biladen .



as long as you are there islam world do not need any discusting things you are enough for all muslims discustings


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## bad boy 8

Cyrus the Great said:


> enjoy with your hatred about Persian. that is end of brotherhood in regoin, you all play in US court, and will see end of all pupets. Qatar is only start, Turkey is the next, Morsi third., .....


 
No Majoosi,Your dog Bashar is next and then his master Khameni...The No 1 target of Ahl e Sunnah

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## gambit

Developereo said:


> Have you forgotten the CIA's involvement in ousting Mossadeq to install the Shah of Iran?


Right...The CIA's role was small enough that it should be forgotten. But then again, when it comes to the CIA or the Jews, no exaggerations too small...

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## iranigirl2

Ammad Malik said:


> No Majoosi,Your dog Bashar is next and then his master Khameni...The No 1 target of Ahl e Sunnah



LOL, we don't even have to lift a finger, your own Sunni J i h a d i brothers are doing a great job at killing Sunni Pakistani soldiers and civilians! 


We just sit back, relax and watch you self-destruct!


One hour ago....

4 Pakistani soldiers killed in suicide attack

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/04/world/asia/pakistan-violence/?hpt=hp_t3


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## iranigirl2

"I curse the dirty coup in Egypt" -- Official from Turkey's ruling AK Party .


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## darkinsky

iranigirl2 said:


> LOL, we don't even have to lift a finger, your own Sunni J i h a d i brothers are doing a great job at killing Sunni Pakistani soldiers and civilians!
> 
> 
> We just sit back, relax and watch you self-destruct!
> 
> 
> One hour ago....
> 
> 4 Pakistani soldiers killed in suicide attack
> 
> In Pakistan, militants target checkpoint, fuel tanker - CNN.com



this is not a pakistani thread why bring some news about pakistan here?

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## darkinsky

Devil Soul said:


> *NINETY-ONE women protesters raped and sexually abused in Tahrir Square in just four days*
> At least 23 killed in overnight clashes in Cairo and 200 more injured
> The Al-Ahram newspaper reports that the army could step in today
> Anti-Morsi demonstrations have become the largest since the 2011 Arab Spring uprising as they enter the third day of protests
> Deadline set by military for resolution fast approaches before it will intervene
> U.S. and UK have urged citizens to cancel travel plans to or within Egypt
> Protests caused Egyptian shares to reach three-week high as oil prices soar
> By STEVE NOLAN
> PUBLISHED: 07:52 GMT, 3 July 2013 | UPDATED: 09:25 GMT, 4 July 2013
> 
> 
> Read more: Egypt protests 2013: Sex attacks and rapes against women protesters in Tahir Square hit 91 in four days as Egypt's army moves into state TV offices | Mail Online
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook



gives a very bad impression to be honest


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## illusion8

Egypt was the centerpiece of the Islamist movement's vault to power in the Arab world's sweeping wave of uprisings. Winning election after election here, the Islamists vowed to prove they could govern effectively and implement their vision of political Islam, all while embracing the rules of democracy.

Mohamed Morsi was their pillar: the veteran of the Muslim Brotherhood, the region's oldest and most prestigious political Islamist group, who became Egypt's first freely elected president.

That is what makes his ouster after barely a year in office, with a gigantic cross-section of Egypt's population demanding he go, such a devastating blow to Islamists on multiple levels, not only in Egypt but across a tumultuous region.

Morsi, his Brotherhood and their harder-line allies say they played by the rules of democracy, only to be forced out by opponents who could not play it as well as them at the ballot box and so turned to the military for help. The lesson that the Islamists' extreme fringe may draw: 

*Democracy, which many of them viewed as "kufr'' or heresy to begin with, is rigged and violence is the only way to bring their dream of an Islamic state.*

But to the millions of Egyptians who marched in the street against Morsi, the Islamists failed at democracy: They overreached.

The protesters became convinced the Islamists were using wins at the polls to centralize power in the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood far beyond their mandate and treat the country as if it accepted the "Islamist project.'' Even worse, for many of the protesters, the Islamists simply were not fixing Egypt's multiple and worsening woes.

*That is a serious setback for their dreams, calling into doubt the argument by Islamists across the region that political Islam is the remedy to their society's ills. The damage to their prestige echoes widely, from Gaza where the Hamas rulers who saw in Morsi a strong ally, to Tunisia where a Brotherhood branch holds power, to Libya and Syria where Islamists push for power.*

"The Brotherhood in Egypt is now a cautionary tale,'' said Michael W. Hanna of the Century Foundation in New York. "Morsi's abysmal performance during their short tenure is a tale of how not to guide and rule.''

The irony is, the Brotherhood knew the risks going in. After the 2011 fall of autocrat Hosni Mubarak, the group vowed not to try to dominate parliament and not to run a candidate for president, knowing the backlash if it seemed to be grabbing power or if it led a government that failed to fix a broken Egypt. It went back on each of those promises, every time saying its hand was forced into doing so.

Morsi himself recognized the power of the street as he vowed to be a president for all the people. The day before his formal inauguration on June 30, 2012, he first delivered a symbolic oath of office in Cairo's Tahrir Square, the epicenter of the revolt that overthrew his autocratic predecessor.

"You are the source of power and legitimacy,'' he told the crowd. Nothing stands above "the will of the people. The nation is the source of all power. It grants and withdraws power.''

In the broad range of the political Islam movement &#8211; from moderates to militants &#8211; the Brotherhood eventually emerged as the central force arguing that Islamists can be democrats. Their influence drew in harder-line groups to participate at the ballot box. Ultraconservatives who once refused elections that could potentially bring any law but God's law took their chance at the polls.

In an impassioned Facebook post just before the army pushed Morsi out Wednesday, one of his top advisers Essam el-Haddad argued that what was happening was irrevocably damaging democracy itself, saying the Brotherhood had been unfairly treated. He insisted history would show the Brotherhood tried to include others in its administration but was shunned.

"Increasingly, the so-called liberals of Egypt escalated a rhetoric inviting the military to become the custodians of government in Egypt,'' he wrote. "The opposition has steadfastly declined every option that entails a return to the ballot box.''

But amid multiple complaints, opponents point to a key factor that turned many against the Brotherhood: the post-Mubarak constitution. Morsi had vowed a consensus on the landmark document, but Islamists dominated the panel writing it. Liberals, leftists, secular politicians and Christians steadily dropped out, complaining Morsi's allies were forcing their vision. In the end, Morsi unilaterally decreed himself and the assembly untouchable by the courts to ensure judges did not dissolve the panel, while Islamists hastily finished writing the charter in an all-night marathon session.

It was rushed to a referendum, where it passed with a hearty 63 per cent of the vote &#8211; but only just over 32 per cent of the electorate casting ballots.

Meanwhile, Brotherhood members and other Islamists were steadily were given more posts across the government, fueling a perception that they were taking over institutions &#8211; though they constantly faced resistance on many fronts from the entrenched bureaucracy. Islamist rhetoric from officials and clerics on TV rang in the ears of many as divisive and harsh.

Morsi's ouster could now send the Brotherhood into disarray for years to come, just as a major crackdown on the group did in 1954. Morsi and many of his advisers have been put under house arrest, and he could face trial for escaping prison during the 2011 uprising. Two top leaders of the group, including the head of its political party Saad el-Katatni, were arrested and at least 30 more were expected to meet the same fate.

The danger now could be that a heavy crackdown will turn into forcibly excluding them from politics once more. The Brotherhood was banned for much of its 83-year existence. But it still maintains a powerful, organized and disciplined network of members nationwide.

*"The forceful removal of the nation's first democratically-elected civilian president risks sending a message to Islamists that they have no place in the political order; sowing fears among them that they will suffer yet another bloody crackdown; and thus potentially prompting violent, even desperate resistance by Morsi's followers,'' the Brussels based International Crisis group warned in a statement.*


http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mohamed-morsis-fall-a-blow-to-islamists/1137538/0


Does this Bode well for the attempt of bringing the Taliban into the Afghan Government? Islamists and democracy don't go hand in hand - I guess. 
@muse, @Secur, @FaujHistorian, @Bang Galore, @Zarvan.

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## muse

illusion8 said:


> Does this Bode well for the attempt of bringing the Taliban into the Afghan Government? Islamists and democracy don't go hand in hand - I guess.
> @muse, @Secur, @FaujHistorian, @Bang Galore, @Zarvan.



It's not just Democracy, Islamists and civilization don't go hand in hand - the only thing Islamists go hand in hand with is nihilism, decay and death.

See, using religion as a tool of politics, can anything be lower, more sacrilegious, more demeaning? We have argued that most Muslims are alienated from Islam, is there a greater vindication for this observation than the existence of Islamism?

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## Cyberian

President Muhammad Morsi's fall is a blow to Muslims and not Democracy?

Check out how the non-Muslims are trying so hard to spin this injustice to install another puppet for the next 40 years.

Had President Muhammad Morsi lost at the ballot box, one could call it a loss to the Muslims but only deaf, dumb and blind would call this injustice as some kind of victory for Democracy.

Shame on all the losers. All the best Egyptians.

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## livingdead

It was wrong to bring a elected president down, dont know why people who believe in democracy should rejoice this..

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## illusion8

muse said:


> It's not just Democracy, Islamists and civilization don't go hand in hand - the only thing Islamists go hand in hand with is nihilism, decay and death.
> 
> See, using religion as a tool of politics, can anything be lower, more sacrilegious, more demeaning? We have argued that most Muslims are alienated from Islam, is there a greater vindication for this observation than the existence of Islamism?



That's a definite.

So, it's actually a blunder to think that the Taliban will be any good in the envisaged setup in Afghanistan post 2014, or for that matter bringing Islamists in power anywhere.

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## OrionHunter

A Muslim commentator in an interview on BBC mentioned today that political Islam is a disaster. "You can't mix religion and politics. That's the very reason why the Islamic world is where it is today - on the way to self destruction!"

Wow! That was strong stuff but then isn't it the truth?

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## illusion8

OrionHunter said:


> A Muslim commentator in an interview on BBC mentioned today that political Islam is a disaster. "You can't mix religion and politics. That's the very reason why the Islamic world is where it is today - on the way to self destruction!"
> 
> Wow! That was strong stuff but then isn't it the truth?



Winning in Egypt - the Islamist's looked at winning in elections and coming to power in a new light, but I guess that experience has failed.


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## Developereo

gambit said:


> Right...The CIA's role was small enough that it should be forgotten. But then again, when it comes to the CIA or the Jews, no exaggerations too small...



YAWN.

Another lame attempt to play the anti-Semitism victim card.

The CIA's role in toppling Mossadeq is well known.


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## iranigirl2

darkinsky said:


> this is not a pakistani thread why bring some news about pakistan here?



You have a Pakistani member here using sectarian language in a threatening manner towards Shia Muslims. I didn't bring in Pakistan , I only brought in the news about Sunnis killing Sunnis! *to prove that Sunnis are doing a great job at killing each other we don't even have to lift a finger.. *


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## flamer84

hinduguy said:


> It was wrong to bring a elected president down, dont know why people who believe in democracy should rejoice this..



If the german army would have deposed Hitler in 1934 after he was democratically elected in 1933 we would all have been much better off today.

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## Developereo

hinduguy said:


> It was wrong to bring a elected president down, dont know why people who believe in democracy should rejoice this..



Because some people are such slaves to their prejudices, they can't see beyond the word "Islamist".

It's A-OK to subvert democracy, suspend constitution or kill civilians, just as long as you invoke the magic word "Islamist".

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## darkinsky

iranigirl2 said:


> You have a Pakistani member here using sectarian language in a threatening manner towards Shia Muslims. I didn't bring in Pakistan , I only brought in the news about Sunnis killing Sunnis! *to prove that Sunnis are doing a great job at killing each other we don't even have to lift a finger.. *



sorry but you/iranians are interfering officially in egyptian matter since day one, so a pakistani member is discussing about iranian intrusion in matters related to egypt, syria

there is no point in bringing pakistan here

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## monitor

Its a blow to nascent democracy of Egypt . you cannot tell some one successful or failure in just one year . what will the mursees opponent wil do if in the next election brotherhood again win with considerable majority will you again start start protesting for any excuse and demand early election and afterward support a military coup. its very disappointing for arab democracy and ''so revolution .

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## Luffy 500

Egypt's slave mentality zionist dalal army has ruined egypt again. Ousting a democratically elected pres. and toeing the line of shameless facist mentality secular and copts will ruin egypt. Muslims and MB supporters can not be blamed now if they retaliate against these facist seculars. Hence proved again that seculars are the greatest problem in the muslim world designed to destroy states from inside. Decades of dictatorial control has given them prominence in the institutions such a military and bureaucracy and most importantly media. They are tech savvy and having control of the media they know how to get their puny voice amplified and heard. A sad day for egypt and a victory for US and israel security service.

On a side note, MB also made serious mistakes. They should not have gone for complete power and shouldn't have gone for the presidency if they knew they don't have the institutional and media muscle to fend off against such sudden obstacles. U need to be able to defend and consolidate power once in power , otherwise its the same as not having any power at all. MB lacked strength in the army , bureaucracy and media and hence such a unfortunate fate engulfed them and egypt. They should have allowed seculars to sort out the mess of post-mubarak egypt and keep themselves out with a significant no. opposition seats and build up the strength in prominent institutions and media. They should learn from these mistakes and come back hard. 100 years of secularsim couldn't destroy them and neither should this small hiccup just like how 70 years of kelamist ***** couldn't destory political Islam in turkey.

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## anonymus

hinduguy said:


> It was wrong to bring a elected president down, dont know why people who believe in democracy should rejoice this..



Seriously,


Is democracy a religion?


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## Luffy 500

Devil Soul said:


> *NINETY-ONE women protesters raped and sexually abused in Tahrir Square in just four days*
> At least 23 killed in overnight clashes in Cairo and 200 more injured
> The Al-Ahram newspaper reports that the army could step in today
> Anti-Morsi demonstrations have become the largest since the 2011 Arab Spring uprising as they enter the third day of protests
> Deadline set by military for resolution fast approaches before it will intervene
> U.S. and UK have urged citizens to cancel travel plans to or within Egypt
> Protests caused Egyptian shares to reach three-week high as oil prices soar
> By STEVE NOLAN
> PUBLISHED: 07:52 GMT, 3 July 2013 | UPDATED: 09:25 GMT, 4 July 2013
> 
> 
> Read more: Egypt protests 2013: Sex attacks and rapes against women protesters in Tahir Square hit 91 in four days as Egypt's army moves into state TV offices | Mail Online
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook



SO these rapists will now bring "freedom" to egypt eh?  Just hope egypt doesn't become another algeria and muslim egyptians & MB supporters play it smartly.

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## monitor

*1. MUSRSI was ONLY ARAB LEADER who was elected president of Egypt.
2. MURSI was ONLY ARAB LEADER who wanted to make Egypt as an Islamic State.
3.MURSI IS ONLY ARAB LEADER who is the hafiz of holy Quran
4.MURSI IS ONLY ARAB LEADER who live in a house which is only one apartment flat not only that which is rent house.
5. MURSI IS ONLY ARAB LEADER who denied to hang his picture in the office.*

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## anonymus

The frustration of mullah fanboys is barely concealable.

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## illusion8

hinduguy said:


> It was wrong to bring a elected president down, dont know why people who believe in democracy should rejoice this..



A "83 year" existence of hard core Islamist values just disappears? they were brought in by the people as a "change" into power but could not perform appreciably.

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## Frogman

darkinsky said:


> sorry but you/iranians are interfering officially in egyptian matter since day one, so a pakistani member is discussing about iranian intrusion in matters related to egypt, syria
> 
> there is no point in bringing pakistan here



Iranian influence in Egypt is just above 0.

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## Frogman

monitor said:


> *1. MUSRSI was ONLY ARAB LEADER who was elected president of Egypt.
> 2. MURSI was ONLY ARAB LEADER who wanted to make Egypt as an Islamic State.
> 3.MURSI IS ONLY ARAB LEADER who is the hafiz of holy Quran
> 4.MURSI IS ONLY ARAB LEADER who live in a house which is only one apartment flat not only that which is rent house.
> 5. MURSI IS ONLY ARAB LEADER who denied to hang his picture in the office.*



MURSI IS THE ONLY ARAB LEADER to be deposed by the will of the people he governed after one year of catastrophic failures and insulting the image and being of Islam

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## livingdead

illusion8 said:


> A "83 year" existence of hard core Islamist values just disappears? they were brought in by the people as a "change" into power but could not perform appreciably.



MB is opportunist, and its a good thing in politics. You try to assimilate such people to mainstream not push them away. Given a few years, they would have compromised. By throwing them out, you will just give rise to frustrated hard core islamist entities.


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## illusion8

hinduguy said:


> MB is opportunist, and its a good thing in politics. You try to assimilate such people to mainstream not push them away. Given a few years, they would have compromised. By throwing them out, you will just give rise to frustrated hard core islamist entities.



I guess the opportunity is lost now.


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## anonymus

hinduguy said:


> MB is opportunist, and its a good thing in politics. You try to assimilate such people to mainstream not push them away. Given a few years, they would have compromised. By throwing them out, you will just give rise to frustrated hard core islamist entities.



Not the case when they develop Iron grip on power like in case of Iran............


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## livingdead

anonymus said:


> Not the case when they develop Iron grip on power like in case of Iran............


iran case is different and not easily replicated in today's world. They have 10% plus copts and sizable young secular middleclass, and a overall neutral army, they would have gone turkey way.


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## iranigirl2

darkinsky said:


> sorry but you/iranians are interfering officially in egyptian matter since day one, so a pakistani member is discussing about iranian intrusion in matters related to egypt, syria
> 
> there is no point in bringing pakistan here



Don't tell me your another conspiracy loon, do you think the Coup in Egypt was a SHIA/JEW/ZIONIST/ZOROASTRIAN plan?

*Facts:*
Iranians are not interfering In Egypt or Egyptians affair. 
The only countries interfering are America, and Qatar. 

And this guy *Ammad Malik* is another conspiracy loon, the other day in one of his comments he was saying Shias want to kill all Sunnis! 


My response to this is:

Sunnis are doing a great job at killing each other, Shias don't even have to lift a finger, we'll just watch from far away........ and Pakistan is a great example of this.


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## darkinsky

iranigirl2 said:


> LOL, Iranians are not interfering In Egypt or Egyptians affair.
> 
> 
> The only countries interfering are America, and Qatar.
> 
> And this guy *Ammad Malik* is a conspiracy loon, the other day in one of his comments he was saying Shias want to kill all Sunnis!
> 
> My response to this is ,
> 
> Sunnis are doing a great job at killing each other, Shias don't even have to lift a finger, we'll just watch from far away........ and Pakistan is a great example of this.



iran is not physically interfering but politically yes, as it is interfering in syrian matters and all over middle east

its iranian vs arab matter but it doesnt in any way relate to pakistan

if he talks about iranian matter than its justified because its an iranian vs arab thing

but if you talk about pakistan then its not even minutely related

its like if you start talking about kurd vs turk thing in the middle of discussion which doesnt make any bit of sense

and you dont need to lift a finger because your daddy is armed with 200 something nukes

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## illusion8

hinduguy said:


> iran case is different and not easily replicated in today's world. They have 10% plus copts and sizable young secular middleclass, and a overall neutral army, they would have gone turkey way.



who? the Muslim brotherhood? they probably would have gone the Islamist way.


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## iranigirl2

Frogman said:


> Iranian influence in Egypt is just above 0.



No , no

You got it all wrong, the coup was a Zionist/Dajjal/SHIA/JEW/American plan, which Iran and Israel secretly organized and executed together today.


Our plan is to infiltrate Egypt and turn all the Sunnis into fire worshippers.

We are also responsible for all the soccer riots in Egypt, along with Mossad's infiltration!!!!!


Please don't tell anyone about this secret plan.

Your secret Rafida agent.

Iranigirl2

Egyptian TV Host Insinuates that the Port Said Soccer Riots Were Instigated by Iran - YouTube

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## Zarvan

illusion8 said:


> Egypt was the centerpiece of the Islamist movement's vault to power in the Arab world's sweeping wave of uprisings. Winning election after election here, the Islamists vowed to prove they could govern effectively and implement their vision of political Islam, all while embracing the rules of democracy.
> 
> Mohamed Morsi was their pillar: the veteran of the Muslim Brotherhood, the region's oldest and most prestigious political Islamist group, who became Egypt's first freely elected president.
> 
> That is what makes his ouster after barely a year in office, with a gigantic cross-section of Egypt's population demanding he go, such a devastating blow to Islamists on multiple levels, not only in Egypt but across a tumultuous region.
> 
> Morsi, his Brotherhood and their harder-line allies say they played by the rules of democracy, only to be forced out by opponents who could not play it as well as them at the ballot box and so turned to the military for help. The lesson that the Islamists' extreme fringe may draw:
> 
> *Democracy, which many of them viewed as "kufr'' or heresy to begin with, is rigged and violence is the only way to bring their dream of an Islamic state.*
> 
> But to the millions of Egyptians who marched in the street against Morsi, the Islamists failed at democracy: They overreached.
> 
> The protesters became convinced the Islamists were using wins at the polls to centralize power in the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood far beyond their mandate and treat the country as if it accepted the "Islamist project.'' Even worse, for many of the protesters, the Islamists simply were not fixing Egypt's multiple and worsening woes.
> 
> *That is a serious setback for their dreams, calling into doubt the argument by Islamists across the region that political Islam is the remedy to their society's ills. The damage to their prestige echoes widely, from Gaza where the Hamas rulers who saw in Morsi a strong ally, to Tunisia where a Brotherhood branch holds power, to Libya and Syria where Islamists push for power.*
> 
> "The Brotherhood in Egypt is now a cautionary tale,'' said Michael W. Hanna of the Century Foundation in New York. "Morsi's abysmal performance during their short tenure is a tale of how not to guide and rule.''
> 
> The irony is, the Brotherhood knew the risks going in. After the 2011 fall of autocrat Hosni Mubarak, the group vowed not to try to dominate parliament and not to run a candidate for president, knowing the backlash if it seemed to be grabbing power or if it led a government that failed to fix a broken Egypt. It went back on each of those promises, every time saying its hand was forced into doing so.
> 
> Morsi himself recognized the power of the street as he vowed to be a president for all the people. The day before his formal inauguration on June 30, 2012, he first delivered a symbolic oath of office in Cairo's Tahrir Square, the epicenter of the revolt that overthrew his autocratic predecessor.
> 
> "You are the source of power and legitimacy,'' he told the crowd. Nothing stands above "the will of the people. The nation is the source of all power. It grants and withdraws power.''
> 
> In the broad range of the political Islam movement  from moderates to militants  the Brotherhood eventually emerged as the central force arguing that Islamists can be democrats. Their influence drew in harder-line groups to participate at the ballot box. Ultraconservatives who once refused elections that could potentially bring any law but God's law took their chance at the polls.
> 
> In an impassioned Facebook post just before the army pushed Morsi out Wednesday, one of his top advisers Essam el-Haddad argued that what was happening was irrevocably damaging democracy itself, saying the Brotherhood had been unfairly treated. He insisted history would show the Brotherhood tried to include others in its administration but was shunned.
> 
> "Increasingly, the so-called liberals of Egypt escalated a rhetoric inviting the military to become the custodians of government in Egypt,'' he wrote. "The opposition has steadfastly declined every option that entails a return to the ballot box.''
> 
> But amid multiple complaints, opponents point to a key factor that turned many against the Brotherhood: the post-Mubarak constitution. Morsi had vowed a consensus on the landmark document, but Islamists dominated the panel writing it. Liberals, leftists, secular politicians and Christians steadily dropped out, complaining Morsi's allies were forcing their vision. In the end, Morsi unilaterally decreed himself and the assembly untouchable by the courts to ensure judges did not dissolve the panel, while Islamists hastily finished writing the charter in an all-night marathon session.
> 
> It was rushed to a referendum, where it passed with a hearty 63 per cent of the vote  but only just over 32 per cent of the electorate casting ballots.
> 
> Meanwhile, Brotherhood members and other Islamists were steadily were given more posts across the government, fueling a perception that they were taking over institutions  though they constantly faced resistance on many fronts from the entrenched bureaucracy. Islamist rhetoric from officials and clerics on TV rang in the ears of many as divisive and harsh.
> 
> Morsi's ouster could now send the Brotherhood into disarray for years to come, just as a major crackdown on the group did in 1954. Morsi and many of his advisers have been put under house arrest, and he could face trial for escaping prison during the 2011 uprising. Two top leaders of the group, including the head of its political party Saad el-Katatni, were arrested and at least 30 more were expected to meet the same fate.
> 
> The danger now could be that a heavy crackdown will turn into forcibly excluding them from politics once more. The Brotherhood was banned for much of its 83-year existence. But it still maintains a powerful, organized and disciplined network of members nationwide.
> 
> *"The forceful removal of the nation's first democratically-elected civilian president risks sending a message to Islamists that they have no place in the political order; sowing fears among them that they will suffer yet another bloody crackdown; and thus potentially prompting violent, even desperate resistance by Morsi's followers,'' the Brussels based International Crisis group warned in a statement.*
> 
> 
> Mohamed Morsi's fall a blow to Islamists - Indian Express
> 
> 
> Does this Bode well for the attempt of bringing the Taliban into the Afghan Government? Islamists and democracy don't go hand in hand - I guess.
> @muse, @Secur, @FaujHistorian, @Bang Galore, @Zarvan.



again a piece off **** by Indian member more I was not being allowed to rule properly from day one and he can't solve mess off :40 years in only one year and Islam is the solution and will remain solo secular scums off west are only busy in eating **** off their daddy USA and also games its USA and Israel who are stopping them check the facts before posting **** and brotherhood would be back soon and secular traitors would be taken out and made part off history @muse

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## Gandhi G in da house

Bangladeshis and Pakistanis are very angry

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## illusion8

Zarvan said:


> again a piece off **** by Indian member more I was not being allowed to rule properly from day one and he can't solve mess off :40 years in only one year and Islam is the solution and will remain solo secular scums off west are only busy in eating **** off their daddy USA and also games its USA and Israel who are stopping them check the facts before posting **** and brotherhood would be back soon and secular traitors would be taken out and made part off history @muse





I can understand your frustration.

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## Luffy 500

SO what do people expect? A miraculous turn around of post-mubark Egypt that has been ruled by seculars for the past 100 years. "islamist" as the westerners and seculars put it has been in power for about a year via a system championed by these same westerners and seculars. Compared this to dictatorial secular rule of 100 years of dirt poor egypt. Having the suez canal, pyramids and plenty of gas and its still dirt poor after 100 years of western backed secular dictatorial rule. Funny how Indians and westerners are rambling on about incompetency. 

MB should have stayed out for this exact reason. They should have allowed seculars to clean up the mess of 100 years of dictatorial rule.





flamer84 said:


> If the german army would have deposed Hitler in 1934 after he was democratically elected in 1933 we would all have been much better off today.



Look at this guy. He comes up with hitler and nazi germany. How is morsi hitler and MB nazis? If he is hitler then what was mubarak , saddat and Attaturk?


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## monitor



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## Zarvan

illusion8 said:


> I can understand your frustration.


its not frustration its fact brotherhood his been killed and persecuted for pat 60 years still they re their and will remain their forever Indians are happy that their master USA won this game but they would fail soon and brotherhood along with salafists would be back laugh as much as you can you will soon cry the day your country was born

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## Luffy 500

illusion8 said:


> who? the Muslim brotherhood? they probably would have gone the Islamist way.



What is this Islamist way? And how is that U came to the conclusion that its something bad. 
Would it have Fked up egypt more than it already was?

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## Developereo

nick_indian said:


> Bangladeshis and Pakistanis are very angry



Correction: supporters of democracy are angry.

Hypocrites are defending this military coup, which comes as no surprise to many of us.

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## illusion8

Luffy 500 said:


> SO what do people expect? A miraculous turn around of post-mubark Egypt that has been ruled by seculars for the past 100 years. "islamist" are the westerners and seculars put it has been in power for about a year via a system championed by these same westerners and seculars. Compared this to dictatorial secular rule of 100 years of dirt poor egypt. Having the suez canal, pyramids and plenty of gas and its still dirt poor after 100 years of western backed secular dictatorial rule. Funny how Indians and westerners are rambling on about incompetency.



Add up the Pakistani electorate to the list who have been successful in keeping the Islamists out of power till date.



Luffy 500 said:


> What is this Islamist way? And how is that U came to the conclusion that its something bad.
> Would it have Fked up egypt more than it already was?



Of course, but that will divert the topic at hand. I don't intend to get into a discussion about it here.


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## muse

Luffy 500 said:


> What is this Islamist way? And how is that U came to the conclusion that its something bad.
> *Would it have Fked up egypt more than it already was*?



This an important question but even more important is the ideology that enables such a question - what kind of ideology is about asserting that it cannot make things better ??


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## Developereo

illusion8 said:


> the topic at hand.



The topic at hand is that the mobs who threw public tantrums, gang raped 91+ women, and toppled a democratic government through a military coup are not Islamists but (gasp!) the "pro-democracy"  pro-West crowd.

But why let facts get in the way of a good anti-Muslim rant? It has never stopped you guys before.

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## Luffy 500

illusion8 said:


> Add up the Pakistani electorate to the list who have been successful in keeping the Islamists out of power till date.



It was the pakistani electorate not army. Besides how is it relevant to the topic at hand. Here army took down a democratically elected pres. which is fine as per chanakyan logic since they are islamist. I know hindutva loons will naturally rejoice it, no surprise there.





> Of course, but that will divulge the topic at hand. I don't intend to get into a discussion about it here.



U can't since U don't know jack apart from ignorantly ranting islamist and islamist.


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## illusion8

Zarvan said:


> its not frustration its fact brotherhood his been killed and persecuted for pat 60 years still they re their and will remain their forever Indians are happy that their master USA won this game but they would fail soon and brotherhood along with salafists would be back laugh as much as you can you will soon cry the day your country was born





I think the Americans are more p!ssed at what the Egyptian people did with Morsi, Morsi was settling in rather nicely with American policies and suddenly this happened.



Luffy 500 said:


> It was the pakistani electorate not army. Besides how is it that relevant to the topic at hand. Here army took down a democratically elected pres. which is fine as per chanakyan logic since they are islamist. I know hindutva loons will naturally rejoice it, no surprise there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U can't since U don't know jack apart from ignorantly ranting islamist and islamist.





Pakistani dictators have been more Islamic then all the proper elected Governments till date - i guess it's hard for you to digest that Islamist's are not the preferred candidates in Pakistan. 

Just because I don't want to get into any Islamist discussion doesn't mean I don't know what it entails, I am not a candidate for religious discussions.


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## Luffy 500

muse said:


> This an important question but even more important is the ideology that enables such a question - *what kind of ideology is about asserting that it cannot make things better *??



The ****** ideology of secularism.

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## Gold1010

Numerous reporters were reporting an anti-us sentiment in the tahir protests.


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## illusion8

Developereo said:


> The topic at hand is that the mobs who threw public tantrums, gang raped 91+ women, and toppled a democratic government through a military coup are not Islamists but (gasp!) the "pro-democracy"  pro-West crowd.
> 
> But why let facts get in the way of a good anti-Muslim rant? It has never stopped you guys before.



The rapes makes the protests ineligible? it's not about being anti Muslim - it's about religion being the basis for ruling a country - may it be any religion.


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## Developereo

illusion8 said:


> I think the Americans are more p!ssed at what the Egyptian people did with Morsi, Morsi was settling in rather nicely with American policies and suddenly this happened.



Not by a long shot.

Morsi was diversifying Egypt's foreign relations, with a policy of rapproachment towards China and Russia to balance out American domination.

Once again, facts are the opposite of your claims.



illusion8 said:


> The rapes makes the protests ineligible?



If 91+ gang rapes had been done by Islamist mobs, we would be talking of nothing else.
We would by hearing pontifications about the moral character of mobs who can't accept democracy, don't respect women, etc. etc.

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## illusion8

Developereo said:


> Not by a long shot.
> 
> Morsi was diversifying Egypt's foreign relations, with a policy of rapproachment towards China and Russia to balance out American domination.
> 
> Once again, facts are the opposite of your claims.
> 
> 
> 
> If 91+ gang rapes had been done by Islamist mobs, we would be talking of nothing else.
> We would by hearing pontifications about the moral character of mobs who can't accept democracy, don't respect women, etc. etc.



and, the Americans toppled Morsi's Government?


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## Developereo

illusion8 said:


> and, the Americans toppled Morsi's Government?



It's clear that you are not a student of history.

Ask the Iranians for a history lesson.

(The Americans don't need to be directly involved. The Egyptian army knows on which side its bread is buttered.)

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## mb444

I wish the Egyptian ppl well, I have visited the country many times. But what has happened today is a really bad thing. The will of the majority has been subverted. Democracy has been eliminated. Only a fool or a self serving minority will cheer this development. Military autocracy will serve only itself, the people of Egypt has been taken down a cul de sac by those who have no chance of coming to power by merit. It's a disasterious day for Egypt, it's people and the wider Islamic nation.

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## anonymus

Developereo said:


> The topic at hand is that the mobs who threw public tantrums, gang raped 91+ women, and toppled a democratic government through a military coup are not Islamists but (gasp!) the "pro-democracy"  pro-West crowd.
> 
> But why let facts get in the way of a good anti-Muslim rant? It has never stopped you guys before.



Could you present the proof of 91+ rapes.


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## Developereo

Gold1010 said:


> Numerous reporters were reporting an anti-us sentiment in the tahir protests.



There were also 91+ gang rapes in the protests.

That must mean that ... the protesters are anti-women and Morsi is pro-women.

Hint: the point is that protests are the natural medium for crazies of all kind to vent their frustrations.

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## Luffy 500

mb444 said:


> I wish the Egyptian ppl well, I have visited the country many times. But what has happened today is a really bad thing. The will of the majority has been subverted. Democracy has been eliminated. Only a fool or a self serving minority will cheer this development. Military autocracy will serve only itself, the people of Egypt has been taken down a cul de sac by those who have no chance of coming to power by merit. It's a disasterious day for Egypt, it's people and the wider Islamic nation.



There are lessons to be learned from here for MB and the ruling party in tunisia. MB should not have taken power in post-mubarak egypt IMO but should have allowed seculars to deal with the situation.


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## Developereo

anonymus said:


> Could you present the proof of 91+ rapes.



Women sexually assaulted in Egypt protests - Africa - Al Jazeera English
Opinion: Gang rapes, the dark side of Egypt's protests - CNN.com

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## monitor

just hearing bbc bangla service Britain and west does not want to tell it as coup but people expectation . hypocrisy have lost its shame and nakedly disclosing the true face of west promotion of democracy .

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## Serpentine

monitor said:


> *1. MUSRSI was ONLY ARAB LEADER who was elected president of Egypt.
> 2. MURSI was ONLY ARAB LEADER who wanted to make Egypt as an Islamic State.
> 3.MURSI IS ONLY ARAB LEADER who is the hafiz of holy Quran
> 4.MURSI IS ONLY ARAB LEADER who live in a house which is only one apartment flat not only that which is rent house.
> 5. MURSI IS ONLY ARAB LEADER who denied to hang his picture in the office.*



My dear, The safety Israel experienced during one year of Morsi's rule, she didn't in Mubarak's time.

Four reasons why Israel may miss Morsi after all

So please don't bring the Islam card here.Besides, It's the decision of the Egyptians, it's their country they are living in and raising their children in it and even if they did a mistake, they will deal with the consequences. I don't think we have the right to interfere here.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Developereo said:


> Correction: supporters of democracy are angry.
> 
> Hypocrites are defending this military coup, which comes as no surprise to many of us.



I wonder where this love for democracy of Pakistanis goes in case of Bahrain or when they zealously support the Afghan Taliban against the Afghan and NATO forces.

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## Imran Khan

nick_indian said:


> Bangladeshis and Pakistanis are very angry



no body care but i dont like this happen to an elected man . be it mursi - nawaz or manmohan singh . because i learn the lesson army is for defense and democratic gov should complete its term


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## illusion8

Developereo said:


> It's clear that you are not a student of history.
> 
> Ask the Iranians for a history lesson.
> 
> (The Americans don't need to be directly involved. The Egyptian army knows on which side its bread is buttered.)



So this is the new conspiracy that's brewing - the Americans conspired to oust Morsi because of, let me guess he was getting friendly with Russia and China.


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## Developereo

illusion8 said:


> So this is the new conspiracy that's brewing - the Americans conspired to oust Morsi because of, let me guess he was getting friendly with Russia and China.



Sure.

When facts fail you, just shout "conspiracy" as a cop out. You might want to mention Jews also, to bring in the anti-Semitism card, just to be on the safe side.

1953 Iran was just a "conspiracy".

In case you still don't get it, Americans don't need to be involved. Their local minions (read Egyptian army) are more than happy to do the needful.


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## illusion8

Developereo said:


> Sure.
> 
> When facts fail you, just shout "conspiracy" as a cop out. You might want to mention Jews also, to bring in the anti-Semitism card, just to be on the safe side.
> 
> 1953 Iran was just a "conspiracy".



Oh.....yes, you forgot the Jews.


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## iranigirl2

Era_923 said:


> My dear, The safety Israel experienced during one year of Morsi's rule, she didn't in Mubarak's time.
> 
> Four reasons why Israel may miss Morsi after all
> 
> So please don't bring the Islam card here.Besides, It's the decision of the Egyptians, it's their country they are living in and raising their children in it and even if they did a mistake, they will deal with the consequences. I don't think we have the right to interfere here.



Can you copy and paste the article here?


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## Developereo

nick_indian said:


> I wonder where this love for democracy of Pakistanis goes in case of Bahrain or when they zealously support the Afghan Taliban against the Afghan and NATO forces.



When did you see me support the Bahraini dictators?

The Afghan situation cannot be called a true democracy, with 150,000 foreign troops in the land.


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## Frogman

Developereo said:


> There were also 91+ gang rapes in the protests.
> 
> That must mean that ... the protesters are anti-women and Morsi is pro-women.
> 
> Hint: the point is that protests are the natural medium for crazies of all kind to vent their frustrations.



Then you obviously don't know the MBs views on rape and that the whole country has a problem with sexual assault not just the opposition and the problem predates the 2011 revolution. So please stop with the distortions.


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## monitor

Era_923 said:


> My dear, The safety Israel experienced during one year of Morsi's rule, she didn't in Mubarak's time.
> 
> Four reasons why Israel may miss Morsi after all
> 
> So please don't bring the Islam card here.Besides, It's the decision of the Egyptians, it's their country they are living in and raising their children in it and even if they did a mistake, they will deal with the consequences. I don't think we have the right to interfere here.



Israel was enjoying safety because the hamas and other brotherhood related group didn't want to embarrass a newly elected leader . 
secondly his first duty was to clear the old regime dirt and then think about the others which he could not get the time to do.

... i will try to write more latter


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## illusion8

Developereo said:


> In case you still don't get it, Americans don't need to be involved. Their local minions (read Egyptian army) are more than happy to do the needful.



Poor Morsi , got done in by the backstabbing Egyptian army backed by the Jews and the Americans

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## Armstrong

illusion8 said:


> So this is the new conspiracy that's brewing - the Americans conspired to oust Morsi because of, let me guess he was getting friendly with Russia and China.



I dunno whether they did or didn't do that, but then again for a country that has a history of regime changes from Nicaragua to Iran, it wouldn't be a fantastic revelation if it turned out that they sent the 'right' signals to the 'powers that be' in Egypt to get rid of this new inconvenience called Morsi & his Brotherhood. 

Heck we've probably had the odd regime change in Pakistan too because Uncle Sam had other plans in mind. 

Can anyone prove it ? No....one doesn't leave their visiting card behind at the scene of the crime after they've had their fun...do they ? 

On Topic - What @Developereo says has merit to it; some of us just draw a pair of blinders over our eyes & stuff our ears with ear plugs on the very mention of trigger words like 'Political Islam', 'Shariah' & the many other such ever so 'dirty words'. 

That said, I've no love for Islamist Parties in Pakistan or elsewhere; whereas the Liberals are self-righteous, extremely condescending & have the tendency of throwing an emotional tantrum when someone doesn't agree with their presumption of what the 'right way of doing things' is; the Conservatives, especially the Islamists, are all of that plus they're also not the brightest of bunch nor the most well articulated.

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## Serpentine

iranigirl2 said:


> Can you copy and paste the article here?


Four reasons why Israel may miss Morsi after all

As Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi remains effectively powerless after the ultimatum set by Egypt's army expired on Wednesday, it was hard not to sense the levels of satisfaction in Israel. Though Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu instructed the cabinet to keep quiet about the crisis in Cairo, there is little doubt that the ministers are delighted with the latest twist in the Egyptian saga.

But should they be?

Morsi, of course, is no Zionist. The word "Israel" has never passed his lips in public and his spokesman denies he ever sent President Shimon Peres a letter of thanks after the latter congratulated him on his election last year. However, his year of presidency has not harmed Israeli-Egyptian relations. Quite the contrary.

Here are four reasons why Israel could still end up missing Morsi:

1. Under Morsi, the Muslim Brotherhood did the unthinkable when it affirmed the Camp David peace accords with Israel. Its leaders did talk of amending the treaty but they continued to uphold it, just as Hosni Mubarak's regime did before. Muslim Brotherhood members and government ministers may not have not with Israeli officials, but on the most crucial level for Israel - the security channels - cooperation was maintained and even improved, Israeli defense sources said, after a rocky period following Mubarak's fall.

Morsi's tenure was the first in which a large and popular Egyptian party that was elected in a democratic process supported, even if begrudgingly, the peace treaty with Israel, and justified it to the Egyptian people.

2. Israel feared that when in power, the Muslim Brotherhood &#8211; the ideological forebear of Hamas - would back the Palestinian Islamist movement and encourage it to launch missiles against Israel, while threatening Israel not to retaliate. Though, for a time, Hamas thought it was immuned, the Morsi administration actually did not try to stop Israel from launching Operation Pillar of Defense in Gaza last year, in which Hamas' military leadership and infrastructure was severely damaged. Morsi was also successful in achieving a swift ceasefire that has engendered for the past eight months - an unprecedented period of calm in southern Israel - which is now being adroitly observed and enforced by Hamas. The Muslim Brotherhood has reined in Hamas in a degree that never existed during Mubarak's time.

3. In Mubarak's day, the Egyptian army failed to act decisively against smuggling operations in Sinai, and from there through underground tunnels, into Gaza. For the Egyptians, this was an opportunity to create regional balance between Israel and the Palestinians, while keeping the Bedouin tribes who control the smuggling satisfied.

Since Mubarak's fall, chaos has reigned in Sinai. But over the past year, under Morsi's rule, the army has been sent on more focused and forceful operations against Al-Qaida elements that have taken over parts of the peninsula, and more importantly for Israel, it has demolished large numbers of smuggling tunnels. The closeness between Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas has made Egypt more determined to fight extreme Islamists in Sinai and Gaza, as well as smuggling of arms.

4. Despite fears of a rapprochement between Iran and Egypt following the Muslim Brotherhood's electoral victories, the differences between Sunni Egypt and Shia Iran have widened under Morsi, and any chance of cooperation now seems very remote. Instinctively, the Brotherhood identifies with the Sunni rebels fighting the Bashar Assad regime. Hezbollah's deepening involvement in Syria on Assad's side has made the government in Cairo an implacable foe of the Lebanese militia.

Morsi's Egypt is firmly in the anti-Iran camp. Prolonged political chaos in Cairo will attract the West's attention away from the civil war in Syria and help Iran and its allies to continue propping up the Assad regime.

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## illusion8

Armstrong said:


> I dunno whether they did or didn't do that, but then again for a country that has a history of regime changes from Nicaragua to Iran, it wouldn't be a fantastic revelation if it turned out that they sent the 'right' signals to the 'powers that be' in Egypt to get rid of this new inconvenience called Morsi & his Brotherhood.
> 
> Heck we've probably had the odd regime change in Pakistan too because Uncle Sam had other plans in mind.
> 
> Can anyone prove it ? No....one doesn't leave their visiting card behind at the scene of the crime after they've had their fun...do they ?
> 
> On Topic - What @Developereo says has merit to it; some of us just draw a pair of blinders over our eyes & stuff our ears with ear plugs on the very mention of trigger words like 'Political Islam', 'Shariah' & the many other such ever so 'dirty words'.
> 
> That said, I've no love for Islamist Parties in Pakistan or elsewhere; whereas the Liberals are self-righteous, extremely condescending & have the tendency of throwing an emotional tantrum when someone doesn't agree with their presumption of the what 'right way of doing things' is; the Conservatives, especially the Islamists, are all of that plus they're also not the brightest of bunch nor the most well articulated.



Makes sense, specially when the Americans are known for regime change - but I would credit the Egyptian population for the ouster more than any other entity - just going by the buildup to the protests.

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## Audio

Don't count your chickens before they are hatched! 
Islamist Al-Nour party came second in elections and are on board with this move of the military, most likely they are hoping for some kind of deals being struck now that their chief competitor is almost out of the game.

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## Developereo

Armstrong said:


> On Topic - What @Developereo says has merit to it; some of us just draw a pair of blinders over our eyes & stuff our ears with ear plugs on the very mention of trigger words like 'Political Islam', 'Shariah' & the many other such ever so 'dirty words'.



This has been the tactic of the losers, who dominate the internet and media, from day ONE: to portray Morsi and his supporters as "Islamists" or radical Muslims.

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## mb444

Luffy 500 said:


> There are lessons to be learned from here for MB and the ruling party in tunisia. MB should not have taken power in post-mubarak egypt IMO but should have allowed seculars to deal with the situation.




I confess I do not know that greatly all the political players in Egypt. But MB is a political outfit, has the majority support, how can they refuse to take up their responsibility to lead the nation?

The sucularists have no support, can not win election, who is then left? Someone has to step up.

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## Arabian Legend

*Gulf states welcome Egypt changes
*

*Dubai-* Gulf states welcomed the Egyptian army's ouster of Islamist President Mohamed Mursi on Wednesday following days of unrest in a country once seen by Gulf Arabs as an instrumental ally against rival power Iran.

The rise of Mursi's Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt following the ouster of President Hosni Mubarak in 2011 has unsettled most Gulf states, including the UAE, which feared it would embolden Islamists at home.

Qatar was alone among Gulf states in celebrating the 2011 Arab Spring revolt that toppled Mubarak, a foe of Iran and a longtime ally of the states that sit on nearly a quarter of the world's oil reserves.

*Saudi state news agency SPA said King Abdullah sent a message of congratulations to the head of the Egyptian Constitutional Court, Adli Mansour, who had been appointed as interim head of state.

"In the name of the people of Saudi Arabia and on my behalf, we congratulate your leadership of Egypt in this critical period of its history. We pray for God to help you bear the responsibility laid upon you to achieve the ambitions of our brotherly people of Egypt," the message said.

The statement also praised the Egyptian armed forces for leading Egypt out of what it said was a "tunnel that only God knows its dimensions and repercussions".
*
The UAE also welcomed the change in Egypt, according to state news agency WAM, and praised the Egyptian armed forces.

"His Highness Abdullah bin Zayed Al-Nahayan, the Foreign Minister of the UAE, expressed his full confidence that the great people of Egypt are able to cross these difficult moments that Egypt is going through," WAM said in a statement.

"Sheikh Abdullah said that the great Egyptian army was able to prove again that they are the fence of Egypt and that they are the protector and strong shield that guarantee Egypt will remain a state of institutions and law," it added.

There was no word from Qatar, the only Gulf country to have publicly sided with the Muslim Brotherhood. Witnesses said the country deployed extra police forces around the Egyptian Embassy in Doha.

Qatar's emir stepped down last week in favour of his son, raising speculation the world's largest exporter of liquefied natural gas may be reconsidering its support for the Muslim Brotherhood.

Influential Muslim cleric Youssef Al-Qaradawi, an Egyptian seen close to the Muslim Brotherhood who had lived in Qatar for many years, is reported to be in Egypt. He had denied reports that Qatar's new emir, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al-Thani, had asked him to leave the country.

Qatar has been a major financier of the Islamist groups around the Arab World, including Egypt's Brotherhood.

Gulf states welcome Egypt changes

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## Gandhi G in da house

Developereo said:


> When did you see me support the Bahraini dictators?
> 
> The Afghan situation cannot be called a true democracy, with 150,000 foreign troops in the land.



Maybe not you , but many other Pakistanis.

Your government also sent its troops to help the Bahraini government to put down the pro-democracy movement of its people.

Pakistani troops aid Bahrain's crackdown - Features - Al Jazeera English

As far as Afghanistan is concerned , I have seen not only Pakistanis supporting the Taliban against NATO forces but also against the Afghan forces and government. You are supporting violent religious extremists against a democractically elected government and their forces ? Some love for democracy that is.

Lets not kid ourselves , nobody here has any real love for democracy. We all want those governments in countries which suit our interests better.

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## Yzd Khalifa

UAE, It is time to put your feet


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## somebozo

Zarvan said:


> Shariah will be back no body can stop it still Muslim brother hood has support of Millions in Egypt and also the Salafists they also have support of millions tout of kufr cannot stop shariah from coming they can delay it for sometime but not stop it is inevitable





Zarvan said:


> Sir you will see soon Sir just wait and watch Sir Muslim brother has faced these things for 60 years they are still their those who did it to them they are all gone and these new cartoons will also become history and by trying to throw brother hood out you will make Salafis more stronger because Saudi Arabia will play their game and they would funds Salafis more and they are far more so called radicals than brother hood guys



Typical mullah art of BS...after deciding the fate of Pakistani's now you want to decide for Egyptians as well.....years of indoctrination, brain washing and enforcement can cause permanent brain damage. 

Now some reality shock:

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## Armstrong

Developereo said:


> This has been the tactic of the losers, who dominate the internet and media, from day ONE: to portray Morsi and his supporters as "Islamists" or radical Muslims.



What I found most interesting going through the Article is, unless I've trouble comprehending, how it was stated that many of them (the Islamists) consider Democracy as Kufar & want to bring about an Islamic State through violence, in a clear cut allusion to the Islamists under question - Morsi & the Muslim Brotherhood. When it clearly appears that the author is either oblivious to or deliberately wishes to ignore the very real fact that the Muslim Brotherhood has always stood for the 'democratic process' whereby they've reiterated their desire to get their agenda institutionalized through the ballot. The few instances of 'violence' that has happened in the past, that can be attributed to them, is inconsequential when compared with what most of 'our' Political Parties have been up to in Karachi, in an entire year, for decades at a stretch. 

Heck even the most Liberal or Secularist Elements in Pakistan agree to the fact that of all Parties in Pakistan's Political Capacity; only the Jamaat-i-Islami has had regular free & fair internal elections. No matter how much I may disagree with their interpretation of Political Islamic Paradigms, I could at least have the intellectual honesty of calling a spade a spade instead of going on an incessant vitriol on the mere mention of a Molvi Sahib talking about Politics. 

We are - as a society - socially redundant in this case, across the board, that its very hard for us to accept an opposing view & respect it without having a vein in our temple burst because 'I'm right' & the other person must be an absolute 'idiot' for not seeing 'how right' I am. And this really does happens across the board - Islamists, Secularists, Moderates, Nationalists - You name it & we most probably do it !

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## darkinsky

nick_indian said:


> I wonder where this love for democracy of Pakistanis goes in case of Bahrain or *when they zealously support the Afghan Taliban against the Afghan and NATO forces.*



excuse me 40,000 pakistanis death in order to fight those same talibans you regard as supported by pakistanis? and NATO and america and indians themselves are dealing with talibans now?

why deal with talibans?

taliban is still the might of afghanistan and NATO is not negotiating with taliban because it suits its interests in afghanistan? its because they have no other choice, simple as that

the rest of afghan government is not a democracy its a puppet government and i as well as you know this fact so please dont save face by saying that afghan government is any democracy

about pakistani soldiers in behrain, those violant protestors killed pakistanis in behrain, its a fact that those shias protesting dont want democracy, they just want khomaini to rule iran simple as that, if they were democratic they hadnt been killing pakistan expats like that


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## Dash

Guys ssorry for my ignorance. Just want to know what was Americas interest in Egypt and why would they do such?
Just as I read that MB was improving relations with China and Russia but could that be the "ONLY" reason?


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## Kompromat

@somebozo

Creating a sensational title doesn't mean you can twist the reality.

Mursi govt was not a tyrany nor governed by Sharia'a. It was a democratically elected govt by the will of the people. Wait until the west brings Muhammad al baradie.

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## somebozo

SUPARCO said:


> President Muhammad Morsi's fall is a blow to Muslims and not Democracy?
> 
> Check out how the non-Muslims are trying so hard to spin this injustice to install another puppet for the next 40 years.
> 
> Had President Muhammad Morsi lost at the ballot box, one could call it a loss to the Muslims but only deaf, dumb and blind would call this injustice as some kind of victory for Democracy.
> 
> Shame on all the losers. All the best Egyptians.



Not everyone is a islamic khilafah zealot...beside most of the Egyptians are Muslim by name and atheist by practice.
Islamism is a failed venture which leads to death, decay and war.


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## somebozo

Aeronaut said:


> @somebozo
> 
> Creating a sensational title doesn't mean you can twist the reality.
> 
> Mursi govt was not a tyrany nor governed by Sharia'a. It was a democratically elected govt by the will of the people. Wait until the west brings Muhammad al baradie.



Going by your logic if Iranians bring fall of ayatollah regime in Iran that would also be due to US - right?


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## Gandhi G in da house

darkinsky said:


> excuse me 40,000 pakistanis death in order to fight those same talibans you regard as supported by pakistanis? and NATO and america and indians themselves are dealing with talibans now?
> 
> why deal with talibans?
> 
> taliban is still the might of afghanistan and NATO is not negotiating with taliban because it suits its interests in afghanistan? its because they have no other choice, simple as that
> 
> the rest of afghan government is not a democracy its a puppet government and i as well as you know this fact so please dont save face by saying that afghan government is any democracy
> 
> about pakistani soldiers in behrain, those violant protestors killed pakistanis in behrain, its a fact that those shias protesting dont want democracy, they just want khomaini to rule iran simple as that, if they were democratic they hadnt been killing pakistan expats like that



Your people were killed by the Pakistani Taliban. You guys support the Afghan Taliban. Everyone here understands the difference.

And it is not for you to judge to who is a puppet or not whether in Bahrain or Afghanistan. Fact is you haven't stood with the democracy in those countries because it doesn't suit your agenda. Nothing to be ashamed about in that. Everyone is the same.

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## Developereo

Armstrong said:


> What I found most interesting going through the Article is, unless I've trouble comprehending, how it was stated that many of them (the Islamists) consider Democracy as Kufar & want to bring about an Islamic State through violence, in a clear cut allusion to the Islamists under question - Morsi & the Muslim Brotherhood. When it clearly appears that the author is either oblivious to or deliberately wishes to ignore the very real fact that the Muslim Brotherhood has always stood for the 'democratic process' whereby they've reiterated their desire to get their agenda institutionalized through the ballot. The few instances of 'violence' that has happened in the past, that can be attributed to them, is inconsequential when compared with what most of 'our' Political Parties have been up to in Karachi, in an entire year, for decades at a stretch.



The important thing is that there is no hard and fast rule. Some Islamists abhor democracy, others value it.

At the end of the day, it's not about Muslims or Islamists. It's about democracy being subverted through public tantrums and military coups.



Dash said:


> Guys ssorry for my ignorance. Just want to know what was Americas interest in Egypt and why would they do such?
> Just as I read that MB was improving relations with China and Russia but could that be the "ONLY" reason?



I don't think anyone is suggesting that America was directly involved. However, Morsi was moving the country from an American puppet (Mubarak) to a more balanced foreign stance, and many pro-West factions in Egypt did not like this.

Here's a Saudi view of what's going on behind the scenes.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...ngratulates-egypts-new-interim-president.html

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## iranigirl2

Era_923 said:


> Four reasons why Israel may miss Morsi after all
> 
> As Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi remains effectively powerless after the ultimatum set by Egypt's army expired on Wednesday, it was hard not to sense the levels of satisfaction in Israel. Though Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu instructed the cabinet to keep quiet about the crisis in Cairo, there is little doubt that the ministers are delighted with the latest twist in the Egyptian saga.
> 
> But should they be?
> 
> Morsi, of course, is no Zionist. The word "Israel" has never passed his lips in public and his spokesman denies he ever sent President Shimon Peres a letter of thanks after the latter congratulated him on his election last year. However, his year of presidency has not harmed Israeli-Egyptian relations. Quite the contrary.
> 
> Here are four reasons why Israel could still end up missing Morsi:
> 
> 1. Under Morsi, the Muslim Brotherhood did the unthinkable when it affirmed the Camp David peace accords with Israel. Its leaders did talk of amending the treaty but they continued to uphold it, just as Hosni Mubarak's regime did before. Muslim Brotherhood members and government ministers may not have not with Israeli officials, but on the most crucial level for Israel - the security channels - cooperation was maintained and even improved, Israeli defense sources said, after a rocky period following Mubarak's fall.
> 
> Morsi's tenure was the first in which a large and popular Egyptian party that was elected in a democratic process supported, even if begrudgingly, the peace treaty with Israel, and justified it to the Egyptian people.
> 
> 2. Israel feared that when in power, the Muslim Brotherhood &#8211; the ideological forebear of Hamas - would back the Palestinian Islamist movement and encourage it to launch missiles against Israel, while threatening Israel not to retaliate. Though, for a time, Hamas thought it was immuned, the Morsi administration actually did not try to stop Israel from launching Operation Pillar of Defense in Gaza last year, in which Hamas' military leadership and infrastructure was severely damaged. Morsi was also successful in achieving a swift ceasefire that has engendered for the past eight months - an unprecedented period of calm in southern Israel - which is now being adroitly observed and enforced by Hamas. The Muslim Brotherhood has reined in Hamas in a degree that never existed during Mubarak's time.
> 
> 3. In Mubarak's day, the Egyptian army failed to act decisively against smuggling operations in Sinai, and from there through underground tunnels, into Gaza. For the Egyptians, this was an opportunity to create regional balance between Israel and the Palestinians, while keeping the Bedouin tribes who control the smuggling satisfied.
> 
> Since Mubarak's fall, chaos has reigned in Sinai. But over the past year, under Morsi's rule, the army has been sent on more focused and forceful operations against Al-Qaida elements that have taken over parts of the peninsula, and more importantly for Israel, it has demolished large numbers of smuggling tunnels. The closeness between Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas has made Egypt more determined to fight extreme Islamists in Sinai and Gaza, as well as smuggling of arms.
> 
> 4. Despite fears of a rapprochement between Iran and Egypt following the Muslim Brotherhood's electoral victories, the differences between Sunni Egypt and Shia Iran have widened under Morsi, and any chance of cooperation now seems very remote. Instinctively, the Brotherhood identifies with the Sunni rebels fighting the Bashar Assad regime. Hezbollah's deepening involvement in Syria on Assad's side has made the government in Cairo an implacable foe of the Lebanese militia.
> 
> Morsi's Egypt is firmly in the anti-Iran camp. Prolonged political chaos in Cairo will attract the West's attention away from the civil war in Syria and help Iran and its allies to continue propping up the Assad regime.



Awesome! It's good to keep the Israelis on their toes.

but from reading Farsnews , Presstv, and official statements from Iran, it seems like they are pro-Morsi, no?

I contribute the down fall of Morsi to imam Hussain~ , shouldn't have gone against Hussain, whoever goes against him will be destroyed.


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## Yzd Khalifa

Yes, Morsi was democratically elected, but let just wait and see what the new election will come up with. 


Aeronaut said:


> @somebozo
> 
> Creating a sensational title doesn't mean you can twist the reality.
> 
> Mursi govt was not a tyrany nor governed by Sharia'a. It was a democratically elected govt by the will of the people. Wait until the west brings Muhammad al baradie.


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## KingMamba

Morsis supporters will now decide to use violence instead of democratic means to attain power. They won the elections but were still forced out after only one year in which they were hounded since their President took the oath. The message they have been sent is clear, democracy is not for them.

Did Egypt kill political Islam? Perhaps but how many lives are yet to be lost is still to be seen.


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## Developereo

nick_indian said:


> Maybe not you , but many other Pakistanis.



The issue is not what the Pakistani army does.

Some Pakistani posters here were supporting the Bahraini protesters; others were supporting the regime.

Same here. Some Pakistanis are supporting Morsi, others are supporting the military coup.

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## darkinsky

nick_indian said:


> Your people were killed by the Pakistani Taliban. You guys support the Afghan Taliban. Everyone here understands the difference.



 now indians who were supposed to mock us about good taliban bad taliban is himself believing in such conspiracy theories 

come on man never imagined you to come up with such things


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## Yzd Khalifa

anonymus said:


> Seriously,
> 
> 
> Is democracy a religion?



People often mix up religion with politics, democracy with intolerance, and patience with suffering. 

The Egyptian people banged into the street with greater number than anti-Mubarak protests. Seemingly, they're fed up with the MB, they spoke their word and their voice is being heard.


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## iranigirl2

Developereo said:


> The issue is not what the Pakistani army does.
> 
> Some Pakistani posters here were supporting the Bahraini protesters; others were supporting the regime.
> 
> Same here. Some Pakistanis are supporting Morsi, others are supporting the military coup.



All the Pakistani posters here supporting the Bahraini protesters are SHIA. Nearly all non-shia Pakistanis here are Taliban loving, tyrant, facist, sucmbags that support oppression and killings of innocent people solely based on their sect. I would give you the names of these members but it would take up the whole page writing 90% of Pakistani members here.

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## Serpentine

iranigirl2 said:


> Awesome! It's good to keep the Israelis on their toes.
> 
> but from reading Farsnews , Presstv, and official statements from Iran, it seems like they are pro-Morsi, no?



It's just for show I suppose. For Iran, a person like El Beradei is better than Morsi. But even if someone who dislikes Iran takes the lead in Egypt, it would be no problem, we lived 30 years with Mubarak, that wasn't a big deal.

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## iranigirl2

Era_923 said:


> It's just for show I suppose. For Iran, a person like El Beradei is better than Morsi. But even if someone who dislikes Iran takes the lead in Egypt, it would be no problem, we lived 30 years with Mubarak, that wasn't a big deal.



Lotfan inro keh neveshti pak kon! specially darbaryeh el baradei ok?


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## Yzd Khalifa

iranigirl2 said:


> All the Pakistani posters here supporting the Bahraini protesters are SHIA. Nearly all non-shia Pakistanis here are Taliban loving, tyrant, facist, sucmbags that support oppression and killings of innocent people solely based on their sect. I would give you the names of these members but it would take up the whole page writing 90% of Pakistani members here.


 @Aeronaut
I'm sorry but I can't take the word scumbags anymore.

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## Developereo

iranigirl2 said:


> All the Pakistani posters here supporting the Bahraini protesters are SHIA. Nearly all non-shia Pakistanis here are Taliban loving, tyrant, facist, sucmbags that support oppression and killings of innocent people solely based on their sect. I would give you the names of these members but it would take up the whole page writing 90% of Pakistani members here.



Here's a thought: some of us support democracy regardless of the sectarian angle.

I supported the protesters in Bahrain against the Arab tyrants, just as I support the Syrian rebels against Assad the butcher.

Granted, the Syrian rebels have some Al-Qaeda types also, but the fundamental principle of supporting democracy v/s tyranny remains inviolate.

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## Gold1010

Developereo said:


> There were also 91+ gang rapes in the protests.
> 
> That must mean that ... the protesters are anti-women and Morsi is pro-women.
> 
> *And some English signs must mean that..they're pro west, doing Americas bidding*
> 
> Hint: the point is that protests are the natural medium for crazies of all kind to vent their frustrations.
> 
> *Well that didn't stop you from grouping the gang rapes with the "pro democracy" and "pro western" crowd in another thread*



I have bolded my bits I'm on ipad.


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## illusion8

Armstrong said:


> What I found most interesting going through the Article is, unless I've trouble comprehending, how it was stated that many of them (the Islamists) consider Democracy as Kufar & want to bring about an Islamic State through violence, in a clear cut allusion to the Islamists under question - Morsi & the Muslim Brotherhood. When it clearly appears that the author is either oblivious to or deliberately wishes to ignore the very real fact that the Muslim Brotherhood has always stood for the 'democratic process' whereby they've reiterated their desire to get their agenda institutionalized through the ballot. The few instances of 'violence' that has happened in the past, that can be attributed to them, is inconsequential when compared with what most of 'our' Political Parties have been up to in Karachi, in an entire year, for decades at a stretch.



The article and the author points to this.



> "The forceful removal of the nation's first democratically-elected civilian president risks sending a message to Islamists that they have no place in the political order; sowing fears among them that they will suffer yet another bloody crackdown; and thus potentially prompting violent, even desperate resistance by Morsi's followers,'' the Brussels based International Crisis group warned in a statement.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...morsis-fall-blow-islamists.html#ixzz2Y5XATK2G


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## iranigirl2

Developereo said:


> Here's a thought: some of us support democracy regardless of the sectarian angle.
> 
> I supported the protesters in Bahrain against the Arab tyrants, just as I support the Syrian rebels against Assad the butcher.
> 
> Granted, the Syrian rebels have some Al-Qaeda types also, but the fundamental principle of supporting democracy v/s tyranny remains inviolate.



Your one of the few, go look at majority of Pakistani members here...


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## Gold1010

Developereo said:


> This has been the tactic of the losers, who dominate the internet and media, from day ONE: to portray Morsi and his supporters as "Islamists" or radical Muslims.



Well Morsi comes from an Islamist party, so would portraying him as one be wrong?


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## MooshMoosh

Yzd Khalifa said:


> @Aeronaut
> I'm sorry but I can't take the word scumbags anymore.



IraniMale is a hypocrite. Condemned killing and blabla yet still doesn't realize what his govts are doing in the ME. Hypocrites should all rot in hell


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## Developereo

Gold1010 said:


> And some English signs must mean that..they're pro west, doing Americas bidding



No, it means that the protesters have an international audience in mind -- the propaganda was set in motion to set the stage for a military coup.



Gold1010 said:


> Well that didn't stop you from grouping the gang rapes with the "pro democracy" and "pro western" crowd in another thread



Clearly, you missed the point I was making: that, if this had been the reverse situation, everybody would be talking of "evil Muslims" who can't accept democracy or women's rights. The rapes would have been used to de-legitimize the protesters.


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## KingMamba

Yzd Khalifa said:


> People often mix up religion with politics, democracy with intolerance, and patience with suffering.
> 
> The Egyptian people baned into the street with greater number than anti-Mubarak protests. Seemingly, they're fed up with the MB, they spoke their word and their voice is being heard.



That is all fine except they should have waited until the next elections to do so. Now if the next government does not perform will the people hit the streets again year to year? 

What of the MB now? You think they will even bother contesting elections after this, not likely they will instead turn to other means.



Armstrong said:


> *What I found most interesting going through the Article is, unless I've trouble comprehending, how it was stated that many of them (the Islamists) consider Democracy as Kufar & want to bring about an Islamic State through violence, in a clear cut allusion to the Islamists under question - Morsi & the Muslim Brotherhood. When it clearly appears that the author is either oblivious to or deliberately wishes to ignore the very real fact that the Muslim Brotherhood has always stood for the 'democratic process' whereby they've reiterated their desire to get their agenda institutionalized through the ballot.* The few instances of 'violence' that has happened in the past, that can be attributed to them, is inconsequential when compared with what most of 'our' Political Parties have been up to in Karachi, in an entire year, for decades at a stretch.
> 
> Heck even the most Liberal or Secularist Elements in Pakistan agree to the fact that of all Parties in Pakistan's Political Capacity; only the Jamaat-i-Islami has had regular free & fair internal elections. No matter how much I may disagree with their interpretation of Political Islamic Paradigms, I could at least have the intellectual honesty of calling a spade a spade instead of going on an incessant vitriol on the mere mention of a Molvi Sahib talking about Politics.
> 
> We are - as a society - socially redundant in this case, across the board, that its very hard for us to accept an opposing view & respect it without having a vein in our temple burst because 'I'm right' & the other person must be an absolute 'idiot' for not seeing 'how right' I am. And this really does happens across the board - Islamists, Secularists, Moderates, Nationalists - You name it & we most probably do it !



That is because Buttsahib you missed what the author meant. The author meant that the MB despite many of their members considering democracy kuffar won power through democracy and now that they have been forcibly removed despite that they will see that they system many of them loathe is not for them and will instead use violence if they feel threatened. Go back and read it again.


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## mb444

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Yes, Morsi was democratically elected, but let just wait and see what the new election will come up with.



New election will bring MB back to power. But the new election inevitably will be stage managed to thwart the popular will of the people.

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## iranigirl2

*Obama says overthrow of Mohamed Morsi will prompt review of aid programmes, including 20% of Egyptian military budget*


The Obama administration hopes to use encourage a swift return to civilian rule in Egypt by threatening to withdraw $1.3bn in foreign aid if the generals are judged to have led a military coup under legal definitions set by Congress.

Barack Obama has declared that "relevant departments and agencies" in Washington will review the implications for US foreign assistance programmes to Egypt, in light of the overthrow of President Morsi. An estimated 20% of Egypt's military budget is provided by the US.

Under the terms of Foreign Operations Appropriations law enacted each year by Congress, the US government is prohibited from giving aid to "the government of any country whose duly elected head of government is deposed by military coup d'état or decree or  a coup d'état or decree in which the military plays a decisive role"

But Washington officials have been very careful not to describe Wednesday's events in Egypt in precisely such terms yet  leaving open the possibility they may use any power sharing by the generals in Cairo as an excuse not to trigger the clause.

"We now call on the Egyptian military to move quickly and responsibly to return full authority back to a democratically elected civilian government as soon as possible through an inclusive and transparent process, and to avoid any arbitrary arrests of President Morsi and his supporters," said President Obama in a statement on Wednesday night.

"During this uncertain period, we expect the military to ensure that the rights of all Egyptian men and women are protected, including the right to peaceful assembly, due process, and free and fair trials in civilian courts. In the interim, I urge all sides to avoid violence and come together to ensure the lasting restoration of Egypt's democracy."

Speaking earlier on Wednesday, in response to preliminary reports that Morsi had been placed under house arrest, the State Department struck a similarly cautious note  stressing much depended on the "choices" taken by the Egyptian military.

"There's general legislation applicable to any country to which we provide assistance as a part of the appropriations bill that takes a close look at this," said spokeswoman Jen Psaki. "With respect to the ongoing situation in Egypt, it's premature to suggest that we have taken steps, we're thinking about taking steps. I'm not going to get ahead of, of course, events on the ground, but clearly assessments would be made based on the facts on the ground and choices made by all parties, if needed."

Some congressional leaders have already stated that the military overthrow of Morsi is a clear violation of the US foreign aid rules. Senator Patrick Leahy said: "Egypt's military leaders say they have no intent or desire to govern, and I hope they make good on their promise. In the meantime, our law is clear: US aid is cut off when a democratically elected government is deposed by military coup or decree."

But many Republicans are likely to support administration attempts to maintain close ties to the new regime in Cairo. The Pentagon has also said that defense secretary Chuck Hagel has "maintained close contact" with his counterpart, General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, throughout the current crisis. 

The principle of not funding military coup leaders has often been loosely observed, as lists of US support for armed insurrections around the world make clear, but it has been used in recent years to temporarily block aid to Mauritania, Mali, Madagascar and Pakistan.


US hopes to use aid as incentive for Egypt generals to restore democracy | World news | guardian.co.uk


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## Developereo

Gold1010 said:


> Well Morsi comes from an Islamist party, so would portraying him as one be wrong?



His portrayal would depend partly on his past actions but, more importantly, on his actions in office.

However, it does not mean that everyone who supports him is also an Islamist.

Like I wrote, I am not supporting Morsi or his policies, but I am supporting his right to serve out his full term as democratically elected by the Egyptian people. This move sets a very bad precedent for the nascent democratic movements in the Middle East. It tells people that, if they don't like the election results, they can throw loud tantrums in the streets until they get the government toppled.


----------



## mb444

somebozo said:


> Not everyone is a islamic khilafah zealot...beside most of the Egyptians are Muslim by name and atheist by practice.
> Islamism is a failed venture which leads to death, decay and war.



Not true at all. I have travelled extensively in egypt. My overall impression is as with many Muslim country beyond the urban minority the overwhelming majority of the people are devout Muslim both in name and in deed.


----------



## somebozo

iranigirl2 said:


> \
> 
> I contribute the down fall of Morsi to imam Hussain~ , shouldn't have gone against Hussain, whoever goes against him will be destroyed.



So judging from Iran's present condition today you admit your fellas went against Hussien?


----------



## KingMamba

mb444 said:


> New election will bring MB back to power. But the new election inevitably will be stage managed to thwart the popular will of the people.



It will be hilarious if they even bother to contest and ironic if they somehow win.


----------



## Gold1010

Developereo said:


> No, it means that the protesters have an international audience in mind -- the propaganda was set in motion to set the stage for a military coup.
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly, you missed the point I was making: that, if this had been the reverse situation, everybody would be talking of "evil Muslims" who can't accept democracy or women's rights. The rapes would have been used to de-legitimize the protesters.



Fair enough.


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## somebozo

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Yes, Morsi was democratically elected, but let just wait and see what the new election will come up with.


In the same fashion as Nazi's were democratically elected.



mb444 said:


> New election will bring MB back to power. But the new election inevitably will be stage managed to thwart the popular will of the people.

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## iranigirl2

.

BREAKING NEWS:*Reuters: Egyptian security forces arrest key member of Muslim Brotherhood near Libyan border*


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## KingMamba

mb444 said:


> Not true at all. I have travelled extensively in egypt. My overall impression is as with many Muslim country beyond the urban minority the overwhelming majority of the people are devout Muslim both in name and in deed.



He is an atheist so what he says doesn't really have any truth in it but is instead his secret wet dream.

Egyptians are devout Muslims.



Developereo said:


> His portrayal would depend partly on his past actions but, more importantly, on his actions in office.
> 
> However, it does not mean that everyone who supports him is also an Islamist.
> 
> Like I wrote, I am not supporting Morsi or his policies, but I am supporting his right to serve out his full term as democratically elected by the Egyptian people. This move sets a very bad precedent for the nascent democratic movements in the Middle East. It tells people that, if they don't like the election results, they can throw loud tantrums in the streets until they get the government toppled.



Egypts problems cannot be solved in one year. For them to expect the MB to solve their problems in one year while the opposition hounded them throughout the year was over the top. The constitution the MB drew up was the icing on the top because they hardly had any support behind it. What I wonder however is if the Egyptian people will hit the streets once again when the next government fails to address all their concerns within a year and if the MB will stir up trouble in opposition like the current opposition did.

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## livingdead

The nazi comparison has been repeated so often, dont see what the connection is. Also, did they bring in sharia?

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## Azizam

somebozo said:


> Typical mullah art of BS...after deciding the fate of Pakistani's now you want to decide for Egyptians as well.....years of indoctrination, brain washing and enforcement can cause permanent brain damage.
> 
> Now some reality shock:



It's funny how both sides blame USA for everything.

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## darkinsky

somebozo said:


> Now some reality shock:



what did she mean by not being pakistan?


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## livingdead

darkinsky said:


> what did she mean by not being pakistan?


democracy...

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## Srinivas

Thank GOD , Egyptian Brother hood called for destroying pyramids with Dynamites. These guys should not come to power, other wise Egypt will loose its historical monuments .

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## Imran Khan

somebozo said:


> Typical mullah art of BS...after deciding the fate of Pakistani's now you want to decide for Egyptians as well.....years of indoctrination, brain washing and enforcement can cause permanent brain damage.
> 
> Now some reality shock:



so she is another fat @$$ egyption troll ? yes we don't have no prostitutes like her


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## MooshMoosh

The West, Israel and Gulf royals congratulated the military coup and guess who was the only government who condemned it? AKP Turkey saying this is undemocratic which is true.

They arrested over 300 politicians allied to MB, shutted all the Islamic channels and opponent assualted the people. This is media restrictions and everything they are doing. They even closed the Gaza borders, all of them less than 24 hours and doing more soon. All of this happened under Mubarak for 30 years. The second Mubarak is coming in town and what is the people going to do exactly?  this is why they are imbeciles that doesn't understand the principles of democracy or never accept the fact that government win.

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## anonymus

Yzd Khalifa said:


> People often mix up religion with politics, democracy with intolerance, and patience with suffering.
> 
> The Egyptian people baned into the street with greater number than anti-Mubarak protests. Seemingly, they're fed up with the MB, they spoke their word and their voice is being heard.



I was not talking on completely different lines.

The meaning of my question was whether democracy is a religion for it's fanatic followers since they could see no wrong in democracy.

Unquestioned devotion is unalienable part of religion and if someone is a democracy fundamentalist, it effectively performs the same function as religion for that person.


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## KingMamba

darkinsky said:


> what did she mean by not being pakistan?



Egyptians have this illusion that they were somehow better off than Pakistan.

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## darkinsky

KingMamba93 said:


> Egyptians have this illusion that they were somehow better off than Pakistan.



egypt is ahead of pakistan in few means like they have egypt air, they have orascom, few nobel laureates and they have tourism, but i dont really get why in the world they will compare a nuclear power who has thousand times more resources and is a functioning stable democracy will be equal to egypt

just because we have some terrorist problem in few corners of our country doesnt mean we are failing badly

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## Imran Khan




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## Gandhi G in da house

Imran Khan said:


> so she is another fat @$$ egyption troll ? yes we don't have no prostitutes like her



Not only Egyptian women.


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## darkinsky

Imran Khan said:


> so she is another fat @$$ egyption troll ? yes we don't have no prostitutes like her



she has no neck  

her breast is touching her cheek


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## anonymus

Imran Khan said:


> so she is another fat @$$ egyption troll ? yes we don't have no prostitutes like her



Imran bhai,

Pakistan to duniya ke kone kone me mashoor ho raha hai. LOL


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## Developereo

KingMamba93 said:


> Egypts problems cannot be solved in one year. For them to expect the MB to solve their problems in one year while the opposition hounded them throughout the year was over the top. The constitution the MB drew up was the icing on the top because they hardly had any support behind it. What I wonder however is if the Egyptian people will hit the streets once again when the next government fails to address all their concerns within a year and if the MB will stir up trouble in opposition like the current opposition did.



Morsi did overstep his bounds a few times, but this is nascent democracy in a country ruled for decades by a series of iron fists. The proper procedures will develop over time. Also, as you mentioned about the economic problems, no one can seriously expect miracles on short notice.

If Morsi did do something unforgivably wrong -- he did reverse his dictatorial decree -- the matter could have been handled through a no-confidence vote, impeachment proceedings or any number of established means to deal with such extreme cases. Summary dismissal by a military coup sends absolutely the wrong signal to everyone in the region.


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## Imran Khan

nick_indian said:


> Not only Egyptian women.



old images we have thread on them baby

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## KingMamba

darkinsky said:


> egypt is ahead of pakistan in few means like they have egypt air, they have orascom, few nobel laureates and they have tourism, but i dont really get why in the world they will compare a nuclear power who has thousand times more resources and is a functioning stable democracy will be equal to egypt
> 
> just because we have some terrorist problem in few corners of our country doesnt mean we are failing badly



Still when they took out those signs they had just gotten out of 30+ years of what they accuse Pakistan of so it was in horribly bad taste.


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## Solomon2

In New York's 'Little Egypt,' Egyptian-Americans cheer Mursi's ouster






Men wave Egyptian flags on the street in the Queens borough of New York, July 3, 2013. REUTERS/Carlo Allegri​
By Victoria Cavaliere 11 hours ago

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Members of New York's Egyptian community descended on the coffee shops, delis and Hookah bars of "Little Egypt" on Wednesday to celebrate the overthrowing of Islamist President Mohamed Mursi after one year in office.

Some people gathered on the sidewalks of the neighborhood in Astoria, Queens, but most congregated inside the public places and their homes, eyes glued to Arabic-language news programs and TV images of demonstrators in Cairo's Tahrir Square.

"We gave him a chance for one year and he didn't do anything," said Abdilmoniem Mohamed, 55, a Bronx resident who was at the Arab Community Center in Astoria watching coverage of the events.

Mohamed, who moved to New York in 1979, said he had considered the toppling of former president Hosni Mubarak in 2011 the happiest day of his life, until Wednesday, and would now be comfortable allowing his girls, both in their 20s, to visit Egypt.

As word spread up and down the streets of Little Egypt, friends and neighbors greeted each other with effusive congratulations. Egyptian flags were displayed on sidewalks and in store fronts. Outside one cafe, a group of men sang "lift your head high, you're an Egyptian."

Egypt has been in turmoil since Mubarak's fall, arousing concern among allies in the West and in Israel, with which Egypt has a 1979 peace treaty.

On Wednesday, hundreds of thousands of anti-Mursi protesters in Tahrir Square erupted into cheers, set off fireworks and waved flags after Egypt's top army commander announced the suspension of the Islamist-tinged constitution.

The reaction was more subdued in Little Egypt, where the fall the first freely elected president for the Arab world's most populous country, raised some concerns for the safety of friends and family in Egypt and for military rule.

"I'm not happy. I'm not sad. I'm confused," said Ehab Mohamed, owner of Zaitoun, a small store a couple of doors from the community center, who added, "He came in the legal way. They should have made a new election."

Ehab Mohamed said he had voted for Mursi, but was not pleased with his presidency. He also said he did not trust the armed forces to not try to assert a more permanent position.

Heba Khalifa, 35, a medical interpreter who lives in Queens, said she believed Mursi supporters were mostly "in hiding" in the neighborhood. "Believe me they are around, but today they are playing the victim," she said.

Khalifa said she was optimistic about Egypt's future and saw Mursi's ouster as a "curve" in the road to democracy. "Is this the last curve? No. There are more curves ahead," she said.

Her husband, Amr Khalifa, said he was of two minds: "The Egyptian in me is elated," he said, while the intellectual was "aware of the complexities" of the military takeover.

Amr Khalifa said he also was deeply concerned about the safety of his family, most of whom live in Cairo and Alexandria. "Whether the Islamists strike tonight, tomorrow, next week, believe you me, it will happen," he said.

(Writing by David Bailey; Editing by Dan Whitcomb and Lisa Shumaker)


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## somebozo

darkinsky said:


> egypt is ahead of pakistan in few means like they have egypt air, they have orascom, and they have tourism, but i dont really get why in the world they will compare a nuclear power who has thousand times more resources and is a functioning stable democracy will be equal to egypt
> 
> just because we have some terrorist problem in few corners of our country doesn't mean we are failing badly



Having nukes is by no means a judgement of country development and capability otherwise NK would stand in same league as Europe. And having done business in Egypt, it is far ahead of Pakistan by light years in various fields especially socio-economic development, culture, freedom and even technical expertise. But then we do have an edge over them in many fields as well.

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## Imran Khan

anonymus said:


> Imran bhai,
> 
> Pakistan to duniya ke kone kone me mashoor ho raha hai. LOL



bhai jaan in ki gand main koi speacial dard hai sach main

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## MooshMoosh

mb444 said:


> New election will bring MB back to power. But the new election inevitably will be stage managed to thwart the popular will of the people.


MB is long gone now. They won't come back. Look what happened in only less than 24 hours after Morsi was ousted; Aljazeera suspended, other media channels shut down, Islamic channels shut down + arrested them and 300 MB and allied to MB members arrested for nothing. This is media and religious restriction, they closed the Gaza Rafah borders and suspended the constitution and reviewing for changes. You do know who did all of this for 30 years? Mubarak and the second one is another Mubarak who will be elected. So, I don't care.


----------



## somebozo

KingMamba93 said:


> Still when they took out those signs they had just gotten out of 30+ years of what they accuse Pakistan of so it was in horribly bad taste.



Egypt is not being attacked by American drones and this is what the protesters meant.

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## KingMamba

Developereo said:


> Morsi did overstep his bounds a few times, but this is nascent democracy in a country ruled for decades by a series of iron fists. The proper procedures will develop over time. Also, as you mentioned about the economic problems, no one can seriously expect miracles on short notice.
> 
> If Morsi did do something unforgivably wrong -- he did reverse his dictatorial decree -- the matter could have been handled through a no-confidence vote, impeachment proceedings or any number of established means to deal with such extreme cases. Summary dismissal by a military coup sends absolutely the wrong signal to everyone in the region.



The region can think what it wants. What the Egyptian people should be concerned about is what the MB and their millions upon millions of supporters think of the democracy they had bought into which removed them from power.

CNN only showed those protesting against Morsi. There were millions out in his support as well so you see there is a chance for violence to erupt further.


----------



## darkinsky

Imran Khan said:


>



a stable system, is far better they public anarchy, egypt doesnt know on what directions it needs to move ahead

they came out to throw mubarak, then they restored the old army system

egyptians are way too confused about themselves

pakistan should fix its electioneering process and judiciary, we dont need to rape 93 women and bring revolution


----------



## somebozo

MooshMoosh said:


> MB is long gone now. They won't come back. Look what happened in only less than 24 hours after Morsi was ousted; Aljazeera suspended, other media channels shut down, Islamic channels shut down + arrested them and 300 MB and allied to MB members arrested for nothing. This is media and religious restriction, they closed the Gaza Rafah borders and suspended the constitution and reviewing for changes. You do know who did all of this for 30 years? Mubarak and the second one is another Mubarak who will be elected.



And egyptians lived under mubarak quietly for 30+ years so supposedly it was a good thing.


----------



## illusion8

KingMamba93 said:


> The region can think what it wants. What the Egyptian people should be concerned about is what the MB and their millions upon millions of supporters think of the democracy they had bought into which removed them from power.
> 
> CNN only showed those protesting against Morsi. There were millions out in his support as well so you see there is a chance for violence to erupt further.



Now this is more like it. 

I guess one can now believe the theory of the Jews and the Amrikans in keeping one more Islamic country unstable.


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## KingMamba

somebozo said:


> Egypt is not being attacked by American drones and this is what the protesters meant.



That is not what they meant. They were protesting Hillary visit and meant they would not tow the American line like Pakistan often does. What they forgot was that Egypt had been doing exactly that for the past 30 years while Pakistan was as recent as 2001. So like I said it was in bad taste. Egypt was never in a position to be droned I don't see how that even matters.


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## somebozo

Developereo said:


> Morsi did overstep his bounds a few times, but this is nascent democracy in a country ruled for decades by a series of iron fists. The proper procedures will develop over time. Also, as you mentioned about the economic problems, no one can seriously expect miracles on short notice.
> 
> If Morsi did do something unforgivably wrong -- he did reverse his dictatorial decree -- the matter could have been handled through a no-confidence vote, impeachment proceedings or any number of established means to deal with such extreme cases. Summary dismissal by a military coup sends absolutely the wrong signal to everyone in the region.



This is what they were busy doing so the army had enough standing back and watching the show of country going down the drain...


Egyptian Salafi MP Ismail Causes Stir by Calling to Prayer During Session - YouTube

MB turned egypt into a clown state...

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## Punjabbi Munda

Zarvan said:


> Shariah will be back no body can stop it still Muslim brother hood has support of Millions in Egypt and also the Salafists they also have support of millions tout of kufr cannot stop shariah from coming they can delay it for sometime but not stop it is inevitable


The day people draw a line between religion and politics,world will be a better place to live.


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## livingdead

darkinsky said:


> egypt is ahead of pakistan in few means like they have egypt air, they have orascom, few nobel laureates and they have tourism, but i dont really get why in the world they will compare a nuclear power who has thousand times more resources and is a functioning stable democracy will be equal to egypt
> 
> just because we have some terrorist problem in few corners of our country doesnt mean we are failing badly


they have higher gdp per capita than india/pak... 
anyway.. people are commenting about being american stooge I guess..


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## KingMamba

illusion8 said:


> Now this is more like it.
> 
> I guess one can now believe the theory of the Jews and the Amrikans in keeping one more Islamic country unstable.



Don't be retarded. I did not mention Jews or America even once. I mentioned how CNN only showed anti-Morsi protests because that is exactly what I saw on tv here on CNN. This was a completely Egyptian movement but if you think the whole country was against Morsi than you are the fool. 

Now don't quote me again if you have nothing better to say.


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## Punjabbi Munda

Imran Khan said:


> so she is another fat @$$ egyption troll ? yes we don't have no prostitutes like her


What a low life shameless comment.


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## darkinsky

hinduguy said:


> they have higher gdp per capita than india/pak...
> anyway.. people are commenting about being american stooge I guess..



egyptians were always an american stooge since husne mubarak took over

pakistan was not american stooge


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## Imran Khan

hinduguy said:


> they have higher gdp per capita than india/pak...
> anyway.. people are commenting about being american stooge I guess..



lolzzz then i must say 



darkinsky said:


> egyptians were always an american stooge since husne mubarak took over
> 
> pakistan was not american stooge



wrong since anwar sadat sign in camp david  they are eating US money since that day and getting aid weapons till today

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## agentny17

MooshMoosh said:


> Notice how Essie the defence chief vows to defend Egypt from terrorist and ignorants before the oustal, look who is threatening the secularist? The officials knew something would happen after Morsi was ousted.



Living in the infidel land and supporting a terrorist, so typical .............. It is OVER

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## Bratva

@Zarvan Morsi was thrown due to Will of Allah, do you agree?


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## livingdead

darkinsky said:


> egyptians were always an american stooge since husne mubarak took over
> 
> pakistan was not american stooge



the protesters are anti mubarak and anti regime that is supported by USA...


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## KingMamba

somebozo said:


> This is what they were busy doing so the army had enough standing back and watching the show of country going down the drain...
> 
> 
> Egyptian Salafi MP Ismail Causes Stir by Calling to Prayer During Session - YouTube
> 
> MB turned egypt into a clown state...



Salafists are a part of the Al-Nour party afaik.


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## darkinsky

hinduguy said:


> the protesters are anti mubarak and anti regime that is supported by USA...



mubarak was a military guy and same military has taken over their country and they are celebrating?


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## Frogman

For the millionth time, no one was expecting miracles and the MB knew this. However, what the Egyptian people were expecting was reform in all sectors and institutions (not immediate change but reform) instead the MB decided to ignore these calls and tighten its grip on all governmental institutions (prematurely) while at the same time deciding to folly about in the parliamentary houses and pursuing issues that are not important to Egypt in such a sensitive time, things like banning internet **** and ballet (This wasn't productive and everyone knew it). Add to this the alienation of the opposition and those sympathetic to the MB by ignoring them and wanting to turn Egypt into a hard line and sectarian nation rather than a moderate and tolerant one, the opposition and the ordinary people of Egypt could bare it no longer. So, they protested as is their constitutional right to do so in numbers never seen before in human history and thus removed Morsi's legitimacy. Democracy is a continuous process not just a ballot in a box.

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## Imran Khan

darkinsky said:


> mubarak was a military guy and same military has taken over their country and they are celebrating?



wrong there is change

mubarak was air force guy
no army taken over gov 

so egyption logic its changeeeeeeee


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## darkinsky

Imran Khan said:


> wrong since anwar sadat sign in camp david  they are eating US money since that day and getting aid weapons till today



yes you are right, since sadat infact, their military surrendered to israel and then signed a deal with them, and they compare us to american stooge


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## flamer84

KingMamba93 said:


> Don't be retarded. I did not mention Jews or America even once. I mentioned how CNN only showed anti-Morsi protests because that is exactly what I saw on tv here on CNN. This was a completely Egyptian movement but if you think the whole country was against Morsi than you are the fool.
> 
> Now don't quote me again if you have nothing better to say.



Not true,i watched CNN to,every hour they had a reporter giving live feeds from the pro Morsi rallies,they had guests from the MB stating their opinion.

I am still amazed to see that many people here don't understand that democracy isn't about electing someone and that guy does whatever he wants until next elections,you have to rule within rules and respect the minority.Morsi wanted to transform Egypt in an islamic state,that goes outside democracy,in fact islamic rule is the opposite.He had to go for Egypt to have a chance at survival.

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## agentny17

Zarvan said:


> Shariah will be back no body can stop it still Muslim brother hood has support of Millions in Egypt and also the Salafists they also have support of millions tout of kufr cannot stop shariah from coming they can delay it for sometime but not stop it is inevitable


People tend to ask for more liberties as time goes, its nature!! You guys are going against nature, its not gonna work. It didn't work in such a conservative society as the Egyptian society, so i doubt it would work anywhere else.. Why do you hate freedom ?

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## Frogman

KingMamba93 said:


> The region can think what it wants. What the Egyptian people should be concerned about is what the MB and their millions upon millions of supporters think of the democracy they had bought into which removed them from power.
> 
> CNN only showed those protesting against Morsi. There were millions out in his support as well so you see there is a chance for violence to erupt further.



Where are these millions?

There was only one big pro Morsi protest in Rab3a Al3adawiya and even that didn't exceed half a million (It isn't a square, its just a traffic junction in front of a famous mosque) and they had limited to no presence in Egypt's governates because they were busing them in from all around Egypt. So where are they. If there was that many what happened yesterday wouldn't have been possible.


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## livingdead

darkinsky said:


> mubarak was a military guy and same military has taken over their country and they are celebrating?



yes, but for them MB is also american agent.. its like pakistan.. call whoever you dont like american/jewish agent..

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## Dr. Strangelove

these egyption want democracy 
for the last 5000 years they are being ruled by pharoes and kings and dictators

another coup


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## darkinsky

hinduguy said:


> yes, but for them MB is also american agent.. its like pakistan.. call whoever you dont like american/jewish agent..



an american agent oust another american agent and then taken over by american agents with american toys 

funny story man

i would atleast give something to muslim brotherhood for developing balls against the american funded military


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## KingMamba

flamer84 said:


> Not true,i watched CNN to,every hour they had a reporter giving live feeds from the pro Morsi rallies,they had guests from the MB stating their opinion.
> 
> I am still amazed to see that many people here don't understand that democracy isn't about electing someone and that guy does whatever he wants until next elections,you have to rule within rules and respect the minority.Morsi wanted to transform Egypt in an islamic state,that goes outside democracy,in fact islamic rule is the opposite.He had to go for Egypt to have a chance at survival.



I agree with tossing the constitution which only had 20% backing but tossing the President sets a bad precedent especially when it occurs threw the streets and not through governmental proceedings. Yeah and I was CNN here in NY nothing but anti Morsi mostly tahrir square. 



Frogman said:


> For the millionth time, no one was expecting miracles and the MB knew this. However, what the Egyptian people were expecting was reform in all sectors and institutions (not immediate change but reform) instead the MB decided to ignore these calls and tighten its grip on all governmental institutions (prematurely) while at the same time deciding to folly about in the parliamentary houses and pursuing issues that are not important to Egypt in such a sensitive time, things like banning internet **** and ballet (This wasn't productive and everyone knew it). Add to this the alienation of the opposition and those sympathetic to the MB by ignoring them and wanting to turn Egypt into a hard line and sectarian nation rather than a moderate and tolerant one, the opposition and the ordinary people of Egypt could bare it no longer. So, they protested as is their constitutional right to do so in numbers never seen before in human history and thus removed Morsi's legitimacy. Democracy is a continuous process not just a ballot in a box.



What reforms are you looking for from the next government? Like specifically.


----------



## Hashshāshīn

@al-Hasani What are your views on Gaddafi?


----------



## Makardhwaj

somebozo said:


> Now some reality shock:



Goodwill earned by Pakistan..

*


Imran Khan said:



so she is another fat @$$ egyption troll ? yes we don't have no prostitutes like her 

Click to expand...

*
Imran bhai ko Mirchi lag gayi.............


----------



## agentny17

nick_indian said:


> Not only Egyptian women.



Sharing power between Mullahs and military someway or another.

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## livingdead

wasm95 said:


> they dont know everything happens when us wants
> these egyption dont want democracy
> *for the last 5000 years they are being ruled by pharoes and kings and dictators*



exact words an egyptian told me before arab spring when I asked why you got military rule.. and then arab spring happened.. 
just because they were does not mean they want it even now.. infact morsi was called a faroh due to his inflexibility.

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## flamer84

Luffy 500 said:


> Look at this guy. He comes up with hitler and nazi germany. How is morsi hitler and MB nazis? If he is hitler then what was mubarak , saddat and Attaturk?



Yep,it's a good comparison,trying to rule a country by sharia is equal to sending that country to the middle ages.In fact,I think that like the nazi party in Germany,islamic parties should be banned from attending politics.Their agenda goes against democracy and an egalitarian,free society,i'm glad that the army in Egypt is taking these steps to protect the people,including arresting high ruling members in the MB as they are doing in the last few hours.Out of sight,out of mind,Egypt must look to the future not to the past!

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## Imran Khan

agentny17 said:


> Sharing power between Mullahs and military someway or another.



which mullah shear in power? we don't have mullah islamic gov ever in our history


----------



## KingMamba

Frogman said:


> Where are these millions?
> 
> There was only one big pro Morsi protest in Rab3a Al3adawiya and even that didn't exceed half a million (It isn't a square, its just a traffic junction in front of a famous mosque) and they had limited to no presence in Egypt's governates because they were busing them in from all around Egypt. So where are they. If there were that many what happened yesterday wouldn't have been possible.



I saw a few videos online idk what the name of the area was but they said in excess of a million people. Also he was ousted because the military had full support of every other party who was on board with it so even if those who supported him were a majority he would've still been overthrown. Along with the horrible speech he gave which sealed it.

That being said I don't agree with tossing an elected leader threw the streets, will you toss every leader who fails to deliver year to year? That would be the height of absurdity.


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## al-Hasani

Doritos11 said:


> btw, offtopic, did you see Iraq-Paraguay u20 today ? we continue to the quarter finals of the world cup u20



No, what happened? I do not watch any young football tournaments only the senior teams. Good luck. I will cheer for Iraq! Any other Arab national teams left? What is it? Is it World Cup?



&#7716;ashsh&#257;sh&#299;n;4486061 said:


> @al-Hasani What are your views on Gaddafi?



Only if you answer my question below, LOL.



> *&#7716;ashsh&#257;sh&#299;n *
> 
> Where are you from if I may ask? Central African Republic but living in Kenya? Quite interesting. I assume that you are a Ismaili too. Makes it even more "interesting".



Anyway I did not agree with his rule. He mixed Islam with Arab socialism which really is un-Islamic. Feel free to call yourself an Arab nationalist and socialist and leave Islam out of all this because it has nothing to do with this.

His little Green Book was also a joke to be honest. He was also mentally sick. Just look at his behavior etc. Nevertheless he did good also as all dictators and had his moments. But he was a tyrant overall and so was his family.

I am glad that the Libyans toppled him and they were clearly that too.

Libya will only get better and better and also Libya is among the richest countries in Africa if not the richest and most people live not bad. The best standards of living in all of Northern Africa.

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## Hack-Hook

by looking at Obama polices and decisions around the world and their implication , somebody my ask himself how much of his belief is due to the teaching he received in Shariah run Madrassa in Indonesia . the ones that their ideology gave birth to people who participate in Al-qaeda activities

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## Dr. Strangelove

KingMamba93 said:


> Egyptians are devout Muslims.



the egyptions i know 
are all wanna bes westerns
than westerns themself are 
may be the situation inrural areas is different



KingMamba93 said:


> Don't be retarded. I did not mention Jews or America even once. I mentioned how CNN only showed anti-Morsi protests because that is exactly what I saw on tv here on CNN. This was a completely Egyptian movement but if you think the whole country was against Morsi than you are the fool.
> 
> Now don't quote me again if you have nothing better to say.



you saw it because they want their people to see it thats how things work


----------



## Imran Khan

List of Prime Ministers of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_Pakistan

show me a mullah please


----------



## JonAsad

somebozo said:


> Typical mullah art of BS...after deciding the fate of Pakistani's now you want to decide for Egyptians as well.....years of indoctrination, brain washing and enforcement can cause permanent brain damage.
> 
> Now some reality shock:



She is a ******-


----------



## flamer84

KingMamba93 said:


> That being said I don't agree with tossing an elected leader threw the streets, will you toss every leader who fails to deliver year to year? That would be the height of absurdity.



Actually that would be a good ideea for the rest of us to,it should teach some manners to all our politicians who keep lying to us ;;;"Improve the economy,live to your promises within a year or face arrest and execution!" ...that should erase the grin on their faces )


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## darkinsky

this is actually a fight between the ultra liberalist seculars and conservatives as i understand it, the liberals didnt want their country turning another way, they even tolerated military breking all laws and dismissing a democratically elected government

so they are using pakistan's name(and not mullah iranians) and trying to say that hey look we will never tolerate a pakistani democracy under conservatives so we better bring pharoah dictatorship funded by US again (truely egyptian in style and spirit)







im still the King


----------



## somebozo

Imran Khan said:


> List of Prime Ministers of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_Pakistan
> 
> show me a mullah please



here is one

Muhammad Rafiq Tarar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Imran Khan

Makardhwaj said:


> Goodwill earned by Pakistan..
> 
> 
> 
> Imran bhai ko Mirchi lag gayi.............



nhi meri JH sulag gai hai in ki bakwaas se yaar . damn they throw away their first democratic gov of 5000 years history and celebrating like idiots . what a shame we have prome minister elected prime minister since day one of our country . dictatorship try to stopped us but at the end failed we are democratic nation its 100% clear now . am i wrong


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## Doritos11

al-Hasani said:


> No, what happened? I do not watch any young football tournaments only the senior teams. Good luck. I will cheer for Iraq! Any other Arab national teams left? What is it? Is it World Cup?



Only mid eastern team left Iraq
2013 FIFA U-20 World Cup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Everyone is amazed how good they play, with this team we will qualify for world cup games atleast.

intense game

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## darkinsky

somebozo said:


> here is one
> 
> Muhammad Rafiq Tarar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





this guy is a clown

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## Solomon2

Zarvan said:


> again a piece off **** by Indian member more I was not being allowed to rule properly from day one -


What do you mean by "rule properly"?


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## agentny17

Imran Khan said:


> which mullah shear in power? we don't have mullah islamic gov ever in our history



Do you guys apply Sharia laws ? Its the perspective that a lot of Egyptians have about Pakistan for some reason or another


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## darkinsky

bhai vote q dya tha ager muslim brotherhood pasand nahi tha?


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## Imran Khan

somebozo said:


> here is one
> 
> Muhammad Rafiq Tarar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



he was mullah ?

activist of pakistan movement ?
with no powers president ?
Advocate in the Lahore High Court ?
Additional District and Session Judge ?
District and Session Judge?
Lahore High Court in October 1974 and later became the Chief Justice ?
served as a member of the Election Commission of Pakistan?
member of the Senate in 1997 on the PML(N) Party ticket
then president elected 
WTH is he mullah sir ?????????????sirf darhi hai is liye ????????

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## livingdead

Imran Khan said:


> he was mullah ?
> 
> activist of pakistan movement ?
> with no powers president ?
> Advocate in the Lahore High Court ?
> Additional District and Session Judge ?
> District and Session Judge?
> Lahore High Court in October 1974 and later became the Chief Justice ?
> served as a member of the Election Commission of Pakistan?
> member of the Senate in 1997 on the PML(N) Party ticket
> then president elected
> WTH is he mullah sir ?????????????sirf darhi hai is liye ????????



man, this has nothing to do with pakistan, some silly people put posters... I dont think they are following pakistani political system as such...


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## darkinsky

@somebozo im saying you are a clown, i think you misunderstood lol


----------



## MooshMoosh

agentny17 said:


> Living in the infidel land and supporting a terrorist, so typical .............. It is OVER



I didn't say that. I said something worse could happen. Who knows but you're probably right that it is over.

and I found this pic off from a 'like' page fb.

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## Imran Khan

agentny17 said:


> Do you guys apply Sharia laws ? Its the perspective that a lot of Egyptians have about Pakistan for some reason or another



no we have constitution of 1973 which include all laws we have no sharia laws 

we have wine shops 
wine comapnies
clubs 
films cenema 
women drive
women fly 
love marriages 
BF-GF can move out free
joint study 
music dance culture 
300 tv channels and fasion tv pakistan including 
we have every freedom our men women young old are more free then anyone . don't forget pakistan is 1st islamic country in history have women ruler as prime minister

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## Dr. Strangelove

hinduguy said:


> exact words an egyptian told me before arab spring when I asked why you got military rule.. and then arab spring happened..
> just because they were does not mean they want it even now.. infact morsi was called a faroh due to his inflexibility.



moorsi was an elected president you cant just come to the strreeets ank create drama 

and their army is the same army they were chanting against a year ago 

now they are their heroes 

wait and see who wins next or militrey starts its own drama 

and wait foe deja vu



Imran Khan said:


> he was mullah ?
> 
> activist of pakistan movement ?
> with no powers president ?
> Advocate in the Lahore High Court ?
> Additional District and Session Judge ?
> District and Session Judge?
> Lahore High Court in October 1974 and later became the Chief Justice ?
> served as a member of the Election Commission of Pakistan?
> member of the Senate in 1997 on the PML(N) Party ticket
> then president elected
> WTH is he mullah sir ?????????????sirf darhi hai is liye ????????



he is athiest he thinks every dhari wala is an islamist

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## al-Hasani

Doritos11 said:


> Only mid eastern team left Iraq
> 2013 FIFA U-20 World Cup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Everyone is amazed how good they play, with this team we will qualify for world cup games atleast.
> 
> intense game



Wow, that is actually a very great performance so far in that tournament. Just watched the video. The Iraqi goalkeeper looks really promising and good but both teams missed big chances when watching the video.

The tournament is in Turkey also I see. Good for the region. They went out to France though. Only other "Middle Eastern" or maybe rather Central Asian country is Uzbekistan.

I don't know how good South Korea is but I hope Iraq will win. My relatives in Iraq are probably very happy.

Unfortunately it is waste of time to speak about KSA football team. Horrible period. The history is very good though but today it is not really good. Yemen - no comment.

I hope that the Arab nations soon wake up from their sleep and perform in sports. There is Olympics in Brazil in 2016 and they should perform better there.

Or Qatar world cup 2022 although I do not think that any Arab or even Muslim country will win.

Also can any Pakistani tell me why Pakistani are so bad in football? You have 200 million people and former English colony so I assume that football is popular in Pakistan. India, Bangladesh too.

Cricket must have taken the top place although I know nothing of this sport and do not even understand the rules (not really bothered to understand them I must say)

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## Imran Khan

wasm95 said:


> moorsi was an elected president you cant just come to the strreeets ank create drama
> 
> and their army is the same army they were chanting against a year ago
> 
> now they are their heroes
> 
> wait and see who wins next or militrey starts its own drama
> 
> and wait foe deja vu
> 
> 
> 
> he is athiest he thinks every dhari wala is an islamist



wo to main bhi hoon per her dardhi wala molvi nhi hota that i know


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

Imran Khan said:


> no we have constitution of 1973 which include all laws we have no sharia laws
> 
> we have wine shops
> wine comapnies
> clubs
> films cenema
> women drive
> women fly
> love marriages
> BF-GF can move out free
> joint study
> music dance culture
> 300 tv channels and fasion tv pakistan including
> we have every freedom our men women young old are more free then anyone . don't forget pakistan is 1st islamic country in history have women ruler as prime minister



kyoon itna gussa kr rahey ho bhai 
ye to sab ko pta hain



Imran Khan said:


> wo to main bhi hoon per her dardhi wala molvi nhi hota that i know



main to boot soon ko janta hooon jo asaoon ko janta hooon jo dhari dekh kr pagle ho jatey hain
tum to pehley mile hoo jo aisa nahin sochtey


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## Imran Khan

darkinsky said:


> bhai vote q dya tha ager muslim brotherhood pasand nahi tha?



that need some brain . first experience of democracy for 1 year only . do you guys really think mursi was worse then zardari .
i love my people they stay cool 5 years on PPP .great people

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## Serpentine

&#7716;ashsh&#257;sh&#299;n;4483412 said:


> Iran is a bigger enemy than Israel?



Actually to them, Iran is greater enemy than ,his majesty, Satan.

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## ResurgentIran

Doritos11 said:


> btw, offtopic, did you see Iraq-Paraguay u20 today ? we continue to the quarter finals of the world cup u20



Iraq playing awesome. They have some great youth talent. I think as Iraq is getting up on its feet, it can develop better football infrastructure to really develop their talent further.

The East Asia (Korea, Japan etc) just have better political and econimical situation so they can be ahead of many aspects of life, including sports. Hopefully we will see gradual change in this. 
I think talentwise in general West Asia is better than East Asia.

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## darkinsky

egyptians can do what ever they like its their matter but the guy was legally the president of egypt, voted majority by egyptians, you guys needed to tolerate him for some time

as soon as morsi became president i think he started getting the heat

you want egypt to not be like mubarak, but you guys still miss husne mubarak and thats the prime reason you also tolerated military coup

any guy who comes next wont be an angel, he will have defaults too, he will do mistakes, dont make another tehrir square

i think world i laughing on egypt and their drama for four years i guess

i think its a bad sign for egyptian economy and stability, now egyptians know how to make a drama in tehrir square every another day so who comes next will be prepared for another tehrir square

egyptians are just confused about their ideology and nothing more


----------



## Hashshāshīn

I am not Ismaili, I do not follow any fiqh, just the Quran and Sunnah.

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## Imran Khan

wasm95 said:


> kyoon itna gussa kr rahey ho bhai
> ye to sab ko pta hain
> 
> 
> 
> main to boot soon ko janta hooon jo asaoon ko janta hooon jo dhari dekh kr pagle ho jatey hain
> tum to pehley mile hoo jo aisa nahin sochtey



per main nhi hota meri apni soch hai i am free and i love to see others are free. till they never hurt others



darkinsky said:


> egyptians can do what ever they like its their matter but the guy was legally the president of egypt, voted majority by egyptians, you guys needed to tolerate him for some time
> 
> as soon as morsi became president i think he started getting the heat
> 
> you want egypt to not be like mubarak, but you guys still miss husne mubarak and thats the prime reason you also tolerated military coup
> 
> any guy who comes next wont be an angel, he will have defaults too, he will do mistakes, dont make another tehrir square
> 
> i think world i laughing on egypt and their drama for four years i guess
> 
> i think its a bad sign for egyptian economy and stability, now egyptians know how to make a drama in tehrir square every another day so who comes next will be prepared for another tehrir square
> 
> egyptians are just confused about their ideology and nothing more




and they were chanting like crazy for throw away an unarmed elected presedent by armed forces lolzzzz

its very easy to throw away pbama nawaz sharif or urdgan but its rule of law and elected gov respect that generals have to selute them not throw them away and put them in jail .the rulessssssss


----------



## Frogman

KingMamba93 said:


> What reforms are you looking for from the next government? Like specifically.



The next government being the Interim government.

Firstly, electoral reform. Specifically, setting a campaign budget cap among other things such as not allowing religious phrases to be used in campaigns and that mosques and churches cannot be used to support or condemn a single party or support anothers campaign. Basically, things that can produce a level playing field.

Secondly, a constitution that has real support from all sects and religions as well as parties. A constitution that can provide real checks on governmental and parliamentary power and bands that can deal with mass protests (There wasn't a constitutional process that could deal with what happened from the 30th that's why the army stepped in).

Thirdly, Economic reform. The MB was content with riding the storm by taking loans from whomever they could and would not reform both governmental expenditure and laws that may prohibit investment and some that squash small and big business. Im not that savvy on economic matters so I cant really be specific here.

Fourth, reforming the police force and gradually bringing the military under civilian oversight. I would like to see an independent body among the first things that can investigate instances of police brutality that answers only to the judiciary. Eventual police independence (Scotland yard model is preferred) is needed however that will take years if not decades. The military matter may take even longer.

Furthermore, solving the current energy and food crisis while also investing (or showing interest in investing) in future energy sources such as solar or wind power.

Theres more but this is just a brief outline.



> I saw a few videos online idk what the name of the area was but they said in excess of a million people. Also he was ousted because the military had full support of every other party who was on board with it so even if those who supported him were a majority he would've still been overthrown. Along with the horrible speech he gave which sealed it.


 It was calculated by a company using Google earth as its source. Their estimate was around 400,000 considering that 30% of space would be taken up by barriers/lamposts/stages etc. which is in fact quite lenient as such things would take up more space. I will find the source and post it for you.



> That being said I don't agree with tossing an elected leader threw the streets, will you toss every leader who fails to deliver year to year? That would be the height of absurdity.



Morsi failed catstrophically and divided the Egyptian nation. This division is what ultimately lead to his downfall and the Brotherhoods (many were sympathetic with them before and after they were elected until the constitutional decree) downfall.

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## al-Hasani

&#7716;ashsh&#257;sh&#299;n;4486222 said:


> I am not Ismaili, I do not follow any fiqh, just the Quran and Sunnah.



Then you are a Sunni per definition, my friend. I just stumbled across your signature that was all and your location.

You still have not answered my question. If you don't answer then it is obviously your right and not a problem. I was just curious. Because I cannot find out what country CF. or KN. stands for.

Is it Central African Republic and Kenya? What is it? Help me out. 

Do you speak Swahili? It has many Arabic words and there is a big Arab presence on the Swahili coastline. "Swahili" itself is an Arab word. Hejazi/Omani/Yemeni sailors and merchants spread Islam to East Africa and along the entire Swahili coastline. Many settled also.

Oman even ruled Zanzibar until 40 years ago. I mean the Omani Sultans.

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## darkinsky

Imran Khan said:


> that need some brain . first experience of democracy for 1 year only . do you guys really think mursi was worse then zardari .
> i love my people they stay cool 5 years on PPP .great people



pakistanis found what PPP was made up of that they cried bhutto and democracy for decades, PPP wont ever win again thats for certain, even sindhis will kick them out if they dont perform, which they wont in five years

democracy is the best revenge



Imran Khan said:


> and they were chanting like crazy for throw away an unarmed elected presedent by armed forces lolzzzz
> 
> its very easy to throw away pbama nawaz sharif or urdgan but its rule of law and elected gov respect that generals have to selute them not throw them away and put them in jail .the rulessssssss



i think morsi was gonna expose its egyptian army and how they bought favours from america

i cant believe those anti american chanting egyptians can tolerate their military coup who is the real american stooge with all american F-16s, tanks, APC and all that?


----------



## KingMamba

flamer84 said:


> Actually that would be a good ideea for the rest of us to,it should teach some manners to all our politicians who keep lying to us ;;;"Improve the economy,live to your promises within a year or face arrest and execution!" ...that should erase the grin on their faces )



Within a year?  
When the mess took decades to create asking for a change in a year or threat of violence would be absurd and there would be no one willing to be a politician.


----------



## Solomon2

anonymus said:


> Unquestioned devotion is unalienable part of religion and if someone is a democracy fundamentalist, it effectively performs the same function as religion for that person.


Not always. The French Revolutionaries yes, Imperial Athens yes, Pakistan most of the time. These parties all had in common that (1) the assumption their State had rights others did not, (2) the rights of individuals were overruled by the right of the mob, and (3) there was no fundamental moral basis that limited politicians from seeking the tyrannical aggrandizement of State power.

By contrast, the American Revolutionaries were mostly deists who saw government as a "necessary evil"; our Founding Fathers realized the people could do wrong, and that even democratic government could fail. That's why American government has checks and balances. 

But the people and politicians have to support it to sustain it. When asked after the 1787 Constitutional Convention what kind of government the United States now had, Benjamin Franklin replied, "A republic, _if you can keep it."_


----------



## Jihad_

somebozo said:


> Not everyone is a islamic khilafah zealot...



You are disrespecting the first generations of muslims.


----------



## Kompromat

@somebozo
Thats not my logic,thats how you want to see it.
 @hinduguy

bozo operates on 'discredit by all means' policy. 

Nazi party was democratically elected,but under what pretext?
What were the social dynamics in Germany throughout 1930's?

Iran is also a democracy, unlike Pakistan where elections can be engineered to whatever saudis or Americans want, bozo should learn to digest it. 

M.Brotherhood is going to become energized and strong as more people will sympathize with it,seeing it as a victim and will grant the 'benefit of the doubt.'

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## Hashshāshīn

As far as I know Sunnis also follow some fiqhs like from Abu Hanifa, Ahmad Hanbal and Al-Shafi etc, I do not follow any of them.

And yes, it is CAR but KN is St. Kitts and Nevis. They're not accurate as I wanted to remain anonymous

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## Gentelman

well I don't welcome this dictatorship through 1st creating unrest and then giving deadline and throwing away the elected government&#8230;&#8230;


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

SO EGYPT WILL BE BACK IN US LAP


----------



## iranigirl2

JEskandari said:


> by looking at Obama polices and decisions around the world and their implication , somebody my ask himself how much of his belief is due to the teaching he received in Shariah run Madrassa in Indonesia . the ones that their ideology gave birth to people who participate in Al-qaeda activities



Obama can fool the majority of Americans. But most muslims know he is a Sunni Muslim extremist determined to establish the bloodsucking Caliphate. 
Why else would he have an Islamic name?
Why else would he oppress the Shia Muslims and kill Christians all over the Middle East?


----------



## Armstrong

KingMamba93 said:


> That is because Buttsahib you missed what the author meant. The author meant that the MB despite many of their members considering democracy kuffar won power through democracy and now that they have been forcibly removed despite that they will see that they system many of them loathe is not for them and will instead use violence if they feel threatened. Go back and read it again.




*Mamba Bhai*, I didn't miss the point or at least I don't think I did; the Muslim Brotherhood like its sister organization the Jamaat-i-Islami in Pakistan has been committed to getting their 'view point' institutionalized through the ballot ever since the time of Hasan Al Banna ! 

What I took exception to was the way in which the author, perhaps unwittingly...perhaps otherwise, choose to bracket all Parties who talk about 'Political Islam' in the same category as those who consider 'Democracy' Kuffar. If one were to read their manifesto & the writings of Banna - They don't consider Democracy as Kuffar or anything like it so I don't know what the author meant by 'many of their members considering democracy as Kuffar' !  

I also gave the example of the Jamaat-i-Islami, here in Pakistan, which is more or less the South Asian version of the Muslim Brotherhood - They, unlike other Parties in Pakistan, have had internal party elections in a free & fair manner as far back as I can remember. 

My contention was that whereas I don't agree with either the Brotherhood or the Jamaat, I recognize that they have talked about 'democracy' & the 'democratic process' in the past & the present & it would be erroneous of us to suggest otherwise ! 

The above is what I was alluding too @illusion8 ! 

And *Mamba*, if you contradict me again...you'll be on your knees begging for death & I being the merciful *Lord Butt-Emort*, I am, will oblige !

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## pkuser2k12



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## Gandhi G in da house

somebozo said:


> This is what they were busy doing so the army had enough standing back and watching the show of country going down the drain...
> 
> 
> Egyptian Salafi MP Ismail Causes Stir by Calling to Prayer During Session - YouTube
> 
> MB turned egypt into a clown state...



No wonder then.

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## Jihad_

iranigirl2 said:


> Obama can fool the majority of Americans. But most muslims know he is a Sunni Muslim extremist determined to establish the bloodsucking Caliphate.
> Why else would he have an Islamic name?
> Why else would he oppress the Shia Muslims and kill Christians all over the Middle East?



You are just full of hate regarding muslims trying to divide.


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## al-Hasani

ResurgentIran said:


> Iraq playing awesome. They have some great youth talent. I think as Iraq is getting up on its feet, it can develop better football infrastructure to really develop their talent further.
> 
> The East Asia (Korea, Japan etc) just have better political and econimical situation so they can be ahead of many aspects of life, including sports. Hopefully we will see gradual change in this.
> I think talentwise in general West Asia is better than East Asia.



Actually to be honest then that was only the case like 40-10 years ago when KSA dominated the Asian Cup of Nations took part in 4 World Cups and Iran were also quite good back then. Other than those two countries only Egypt were close but their success has mostly been in the last 10 years. Oh, and they are a African team who compete in the African Cup of Nations.

Other than that no other Western Asian teams were any good.

Compare then South Korea and Japan today or in the last 10 years. Japan has now won 4 Asian Cups and now 1 more than both KSA and Iran. They have taken part in every World Cup in the last 4 editions.

South Korea too. They even reached the semifinal of the World Cup in 2002 at home and only lost the bronze game to Turkey.

Also look at all the players from Japan and South Korea. A lot of them play for top clubs in Europe. Nobody does that from West Asia.

The KSA league is strong though (Asian standards) and teams from KSA have won the most Asian Champions League tournaments in West Asia but that is another story than the national teams. Still football teams (club) from Japan and South Korea have won more Asian Champions League's.

Also East Asian teams are also better technically in my opinion.


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## BATMAN

wasm95 said:


> SO EGYPT WILL BE BACK IN US LAP



So you think.... Mursi was not in US lap!!!! 
 @IraniGirl you propagate against Mursi and now you propagate against those who arrested him?

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## mb444

Undemocratic nations welcome the stifling of democracy.... It figuerers....


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## Dillinger

Armstrong said:


> *Mamba Bhai*, I didn't miss the point or at least I don't think I did; the Muslim Brotherhood like its sister organization the Jamaat-i-Islami in Pakistan has been committed to getting their 'view point' institutionalized through the ballot ever since the time of Hasan Al Banna !
> 
> What I took exception to was the way in which the author, perhaps unwittingly...perhaps otherwise, choose to bracket all Parties who talk about 'Political Islam' in the same category as those who consider 'Democracy' Kuffar. If one were to read their manifesto & the writings of Banna - They don't consider Democracy as Kuffar or anything like it so I don't know what the author meant by 'many of their members considering democracy as Kuffar' !
> 
> I also gave the example of the Jamaat-i-Islami, here in Pakistan, which is more or less the South Asian version of the Muslim Brotherhood - They, unlike other Parties in Pakistan, have had internal party elections in a free & fair manner as far back as I can remember.
> 
> My contention was that whereas I don't agree with either the Brotherhood or the Jamaat, I recognize that they have talked about 'democracy' & the 'democratic process' in the past & the present & it would be erroneous of us to suggest otherwise !
> 
> The above is what I was alluding too @illusion8 !
> 
> And *Mamba*, if you contradict me again...you'll be on your knees begging for death & I being the merciful *Lord Butt-Emort*, I am, will oblige !



Considering that Mamba would just maim you on a whim, that's an unwise thing to declare. 

Btw..DOWN with Mursi- he wasn't an Israel appreciator!!

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## Solomon2

I cannot pretend to be in agreement with the policies of U.S. gov'ts towards Egypt since 2006 or so. That doesn't mean that Obama is a Sunni extremist, or that Mubarak was Bush's stooge. Rather, successive Administrations tried to have as little to do with Egypt as possible, thus refusing to take the bold steps necessary to assist its people in their struggle for liberation.

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## Kompromat

Im disappointed but not surprised. Establishment of tyrany makes good business sense!


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## iranigirl2

BATMAN said:


> So you think.... Mursi was not in US lap!!!!
> 
> @IraniGirl you propagate against Mursi and now you propagate against those who arrested him?



the overthrow of morsi was an Israeli/American conspiracy.


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## BATMAN

> Mohamed Morsi's fall a blow to Islamists



Sure he did and served his masters well.... and raped the aspirations of change.


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## Mahmoud_EGY

our country our rules even if the US tries sanctions we are ready but the MB and morsi are history 
Glory to Egypt

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## mb444

The most cynical headline ever. US has been using its military aid lever to prevent democracy and control Egypt at behest of the Zionist entity. There is nothing that indicates that it is not business as usual.

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## INDIC

Why are Arabs looking so happy for the exit of Morsi.


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## Solomon2

@BLACKEAGLE, I'm worried that M-B and al-Qaeda troublemakers currently in Egypt are going to flee to Jordan now. Is there any kind of security alert in Jordan to catch these guys before they can pull off another assassination or Black September? Or will your gov't cynically push them into the fighting in Syria?


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## agentny17

Gentelman said:


> well I don't welcome this dictatorship through 1st creating unrest and then giving deadline and throwing away the elected government&#8230;&#8230;


Morsi lost his legitimacy the day he ordered his supporters to surround the Supreme Court to prevent the judges from entering the court to say its verdict about the legitimacy of the assembly which was suppose to write the constitution. You are a president as long as you follow and respect the law and the Constitution, once you don't you lose any legitimacy... This is one of so many things he did that he shouldn't have done. You rule by law and order not by force and terror.

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## Frogman

Military aid is part of the peace treaty and so is nonnegotiable. The Americans know this as does the Egyptian military. To cancel it is to cancel the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt.

The military budget is for acquisitions from the US only and so if cancelled it will only be a small blow, however, the American military industrial complex and the Americans themselves will regret such a decision in the long term.

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## BATMAN

iranigirl2 said:


> You think the overthrow of morsi was an Israeli/American conspiracy?



you.... don't think too much!

I agree to @Mahmoud_EGY... and you better mind your own democracy!


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## Thəorətic Muslim

iranigirl2 said:


> Obama can fool the majority of Americans. But most muslims know he is a Sunni Muslim extremist determined to establish the bloodsucking Caliphate.
> Why else would he have an Islamic name?
> Why else would he oppress the Shia Muslims and kill Christians all over the Middle East?



Yes, although in his second term as President he is alot less the dashing 'young socialist muslim' than in his first term.



Mahmoud_EGY said:


> our country our rules even if the US tries sanctions we are ready but the MB and morsi are history
> Glory to Egypt



I'm not going to have any disagreements with you, as your front Egypt. But what are you guys going to do if the MB gets another majority in the ballot boxes?


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## agentny17

Morsi lost his legitimacy the day he ordered his supporters to surround the Supreme Court to prevent the judges from entering the court to say its verdict about the legitimacy of the assembly which was suppose to write the constitution. You are a president as long as you follow and respect the law and the Constitution, once you don't you lose any legitimacy... This is one of so many things he did that he shouldn't have done. You rule by law and order not by force and terror.

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## agentny17

wasm95 said:


> SO EGYPT WILL* BE BACK* IN US LAP



When did we even leave ?!!

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## RuheTag

So are any foreign Islamists (our Pakistani Islamists, naive democrates) sympathizing with Mursi?

IMO, it is more than that. Major part of Mursi's failure is in governance, messing with judiciary and army. and the last thing would be use of religion in politics which is no longer a modern day's popular fashion.


The welfare of people and state should always be at top. Any person or way of governance is secondary.

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## BATMAN

mb444 said:


> The most cynical headline ever. US has been using its military aid lever to prevent democracy and control Egypt at behest of the Zionist entity. There is nothing that indicates that it is not business as usual.



Cynical is the last word, all the 'useful idiots' shall talk about.


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## agentny17

Morsi lost his legitimacy the day he ordered his supporters to surround the Supreme Court to prevent the judges from entering the court to say its verdict about the legitimacy of the assembly which was suppose to write the constitution. You are a president as long as you follow and respect the law and the Constitution, once you don't you lose any legitimacy... This is one of so many things he did that he shouldn't have done. You rule by law and order not by force and terror.

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## ResurgentIran

al-Hasani said:


> Actually to be honest then that was only the case like 40-10 years ago when KSA dominated the Asian Cup of Nations took part in 4 World Cups and Iran were also quite good back then. Other than those two countries only Egypt were close but their success has mostly been in the last 10 years. Oh, and they are a African team who compete in the African Cup of Nations.
> 
> Other than that no other Western Asian teams were any good.
> 
> Compare then South Korea and Japan today or in the last 10 years. Japan has now won 4 Asian Cups and now 1 more than both KSA and Iran. They have taken part in every World Cup in the last 4 editions.
> 
> South Korea too. They even reached the semifinal of the World Cup in 2002 at home and only lost the bronze game to Turkey.
> 
> Also look at all the players from Japan and South Korea. A lot of them play for top clubs in Europe. Nobody does that from West Asia.
> 
> The KSA league is strong though (Asian standards) and teams from KSA have won the most Asian Champions League tournaments in West Asia but that is another story than the national teams. Still football teams (club) from Japan and South Korea have won more Asian Champions League's.
> 
> Also East Asian teams are also better technically in my opinion.



Not at all, East Asia only has Japan and South Korea. That's it. I dont count Australia because its not an Asian nation.
Look at the gap between them and the rest of East Asian teams, its monumental. Teams like China, Indonesia, Vietnam, India, Malaysia etc etc are all pretty crap, or mediocre at best for Asian standards.
Syria, Oman, Lebanon, Bahrain, Jordan, Kuwait etc are getting better would beat those other teams I mentioned, 7-8 times out of 10.

South Korea has good talent pool but most importantly youth program and football infrastructure that goes with it. Japan too. They plan for the future and invest.
If Middle East developed those kind of extensive program, they would be ahead. Because no question they have better talent.

Just look at the World Cup qualifiers. Out of all 10 teams, 6 were teams from Middle East, and only 2 east asian teams. Again I dont count Australia. And Uzbekistan is west asian/central.


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## Doritos11

ResurgentIran said:


> Iraq playing awesome. They have some great youth talent. I think as Iraq is getting up on its feet, it can develop better football infrastructure to really develop their talent further.
> 
> The East Asia (Korea, Japan etc) just have better political and econimical situation so they can be ahead of many aspects of life, including sports. Hopefully we will see gradual change in this.
> I think talentwise in general West Asia is better than East Asia.



Only too bad the junior games get little attention, barely anyone cares, still its good news knowing in the future we will see them playing at the world cup.

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## Luffy 500

flamer84 said:


> Yep,it's a good comparison,trying to rule a country by sharia is equal to sending that country to the middle ages.In fact,I think that like the nazi party in Germany,islamic parties should be banned from attending politics.Their agenda goes against democracy and an egalitarian,free society,i'm glad that the army in Egypt is taking these steps to protect the people,including arresting high ruling members in the MB as they are doing in the last few hours.Out of sight,out of mind,Egypt must look to the future not to the past!



The only message your post gives is that of ignorant bigotry and hatred toward a system that U and have no idea off and neither U ever lived in. Funny how U are rambling about democracy while a democratic gov have been ousted within a year of assuming power inheriting the result of decades of egalitarian secular rule. Egypt is not looking to the future but some loons are looking up to their zionist masters. A idologically devided country have been permanently ruptured apart today and openly send the message to a vast section of egyptians that they don't belong to their own country.


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## BATMAN

iranigirl2 said:


> .
> 
> BREAKING NEWS:*Reuters: Egyptian security forces arrest key member of Muslim Brotherhood near Libyan border*



Instead, this news shall be captioned as 'Running to the lap of US'


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Th&#601;or&#601;tic Muslim;4486416 said:


> I'm not going to have any disagreements with you, as your front Egypt. But what are you guys going to do if the MB gets another majority in the ballot boxes?


we wont do a thing what we care about is a constitution that represent all Egyptians whoever will be in power cant use the army police judges for political gains and that is what we want

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## Mahmoud_EGY



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## al-Hasani

ResurgentIran said:


> Not at all, East Asia only has Japan and South Korea. That's it. I dont count Australia because its not an Asian nation.
> Look at the gap between them and the rest of East Asian teams, its monumental. Teams like China, Indonesia, Vietnam, India, Malaysia etc etc are all pretty crap, or mediocre at best for Asian standards.
> Syria, Oman, Lebanon, Bahrain Kuwait etc are getting much harder would beat those other teams I mentioned, 7-8 times out of 10.
> 
> South Korea has good talent pool but most importantly youth program and football infrastructure that goes with it. Japan too. They plan for the future and invest.
> If Middle East developed those kind of extensive program, they would be ahead. Because no question they have better talent.



Well East Asia is really only Japan and South Korea obviously since there is no other there. China are horrible and all the remaining nations there despite big populations. I was solely talking about Japan and South Korea.

Australia is not East Asia but they compete in Oceania.

Yes, all Arab countries are better than all those you mentioned but they are also among the worst teams in the world.

Well youth infrastructure is another thing altogether. Most Arabs countries have that too and Iran as well. It's not Africa that we are talking about here.

Well, right now the talent mass is better in South Korea and Japan in my opinion. Before it was in West Asia. Times changes and football is not any different.

Most importantly many West Asian players lack discipline while Japanese and South Korean players are really disciplined hence why so many of them play at good top clubs in Europe. Or just look at their club teams in the Asian Champions League.

AFC Champions League - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway I do hope that the Arab teams will again dominate but I believe that it will take some time. UAE - just won the Gulf Cup - ironically most of their players had Yemeni origin including the best Arab player currently - Omar Abdul-Rahman Al-Amoodi and Iraq.

KSA who used to be the best Arab team are struggling now but some of the youth teams seems to have a lot of potential. Will have to wait though.

Frank Rijkaard was a fiasco though.

Anyway they are not even close to the teams from 20-10 years back that dominated the Asian Cup or took part in 4 World Cup's in a row or even played in the Confederation Cup finals in the middle of the 1990's.


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## Solomon2

*Redoing the Egyptian Revolution*

How to Get the Transition Right This Time

Nathan J. Brown
July 3, 2013
Article Summary and Author Biography





_Tahrir Square, July 3, 2013. (Asmaa Waguih / Courtesy Reuters)_

The Egyptian uprising of 2011 was about many things, but one rallying cry that united almost all Egyptians was the need for a new constitutional order -- one that would promote democracy and ensure that the government serves the interests of the entire society. Dissatisfied with the outcome, large numbers of Egyptians renewed that protest on June 30. Once again, popular demonstrations culminated in the military intervening, this time to reverse the results of the earlier revolution. Again, the generals deposed the president and suspended the constitution. But this time, the victims were Mohamed Morsi and the constitution that had been approved in a referendum just half a year ago. Now Egyptians will to try, once more, to realize a democratic and stable future. Unfortunately, they may not achieve their original goal any time soon.

That is not because Egyptians have no constitutional tradition. They do; it dates back further than that of many European countries. Nor is it because the Egyptian constitutional tradition lacks sophistication, richness, or poplar resonance. It has all these things.

What Egypt lacks, however, is a sound tradition of constitution writing. Mundane procedural problems were the Achilles heel of the 2011 transition, and now the body that made all those mistakes, the Egyptian military high command, has delivered a new road map. Not only is this new plan riddled with some of the same flaws as the old one, it will be put in place in an atmosphere that is anything but conducive to success.

In 2011, there was reason to be hopeful. There was a broad consensus in Egypt that a new constitution should be democratic, protect human rights, and whittle away the power of the presidency, which under deposed leader Hosni Mubarak, were virtually unlimited. Disagreements about the proper constitutional role of religion were sometimes profound, but the drafters were able to come to some reasonable compromises.

The document that the drafters produced did accomplish some of the revolutionaries&#8217; goals. And the content was far less problematic than some critics alleged. But the process left a very bitter taste in many mouths. The drafters had followed the procedures laid out immediately after the 2011 uprising. But those procedures relied on the willpower of a rough majority, not on inclusive deliberation.

The result was that Egyptians had a constitution but no widely accepted rules of the political game and no easy way to settle differences between the vying factions. Some of the blame can be laid at the feet of the Muslim Brotherhood, which used its electoral weight to dominate the process. Some of the blame can be laid at the feet of the opposition, whose main strategy could be summed up as a petulant &#8220;No&#8221; to any Muslim Brotherhood suggestion.

In truth, however, the seeds of Egypt&#8217;s difficulties were planted much earlier, when the military decided to favor haste and majoritarianism during the 2011 transition. Not only that, they also set a dangerous precedent. Claiming &#8220;revolutionary legitimacy,&#8221; the army said that, until the new constitution was written, the rules of the game were whatever the army said they were -- even if the army changed its mind. When Morsi was elected before the constitution was written, he claimed the same power. Then, when he shoved through his own constitutional declaration in November 2012 in order to rush the process ahead, he was only following in the generals&#8217; footsteps.

The result was fatal. Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood might have gotten what they wanted in the short term, but their new constitution hastened their demise. And now, Egypt faces yet another constitutional process, again forced through by generals.

That process also appears rushed and badly designed. Justice Adli Mansour, the president of the Supreme Constitutional Court, a genial but unknown figure, is set to serve as president, apparently with the unilateral authority to design the interim constitutional order however he sees fit. Critical questions of sequence are simply omitted. The military has promised to consult everyone but has laid out only the vaguest mechanisms for doing so. The generals have promised to appoint a committee to offer amendments to the 2012 constitution (that is likely a way to forestall any attempt to reopen debate about the military&#8217;s favorite clauses in that document) but provided little guidance on what to amend or how to do so.

The roadmap also tells weary Egyptian voters that they are to be summoned back to the polls over and over again to reelect the two houses of parliament, a new president, and (presumably) to approve the constitutional amendments. The legal framework that will guide some of these elections might need to be modified, but how to do so is anyone&#8217;s guess. (The upper house of the parliament, which is dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood, submitted an election law for the Supreme Constitutional Court&#8217;s review last week. The court has yet to approve that law, nor is it clear who would make changes to the law if the court said that revisions were needed.)

To fill these gaping holes, the army returns to promises that everything will be done by consensus. With a society that is deeply divided, though, that is the biggest problem of all. This time, there is no warm afterglow of a popular uprising. Instead, there is a victorious but disparate majority and an embittered Islamist minority. There is a set of political actors who, in the last year, have raced each other to demonstrate as much bad faith with regard to democracy as possible. And there are traditions of political dialogue that make barroom brawls seem genteel.

In one way, Egyptian political practice resembles that of the United States -- both societies like to do things their own way. Just as few American political leaders would have a good word for the metric system or international law, Egyptian political leaders love to talk about foreign hands and eschew international expertise. So Egypt will insist on finding its own way out of its predicament. It can perhaps do that in a productive manner, but only if it does so gradually, and only if the political parties learn to talk through some of their differences. Then, consensus will become less a weapon and more a tool for slowly and carefully crafting real constitutional rules. If that happens -- and it probably will not any time soon -- it will be in spite of the generals, not because of them.


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## BATMAN

INDIC said:


> Why are Arabs looking so happy for the exit of Morsi.



Do you really, believe in Arab unity?


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## Luffy 500

Egypt army cracks down on Muslim Brotherhood - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

*Egypt army cracks down on Muslim Brotherhood*
Leadership of toppled president Morsi's Islamist movement arrested, as top judge takes office as interim leader.

Egypt's army has rounded up the leadership of Muslim Brotherhood as a top judge took oath of office as country's interim leader, a day after the military chief toppled President Mohamed Morsi from power.

The army turned the screws on the Brotherhood on Thursday, with military police arresting supreme leader Mohamed Badie "for inciting the killing of protesters", as Brotherhood supporters protested the abrupt end of Morsi's one year rule.

He, and his powerful deputy, Khairat el-Shater, were wanted for questioning on their role in the killing this week of eight demonstrators in clashes outside the Brotherhood's Cairo headquarters.

The military chief General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi on Wednesday announced the removal of Morsi after days of nationwide protests by opposition groups calling for Islamist president's ouster.

A judicial source said the prosecution would on Monday begin questioning members of the group, including Morsi, for "insulting the judiciary" as the charges begin to pile up.

Other Brotherhood leaders would be questioned on the same charges, including the head of the group's political arm Saad al-Katatni, Mohammed al-Beltagui, Gamal Gibril and Taher Abdel Mohsen.

Morsi and other senior leaders have also been banned from travel pending investigation into their involvement in a prison break in 2011.

Morsi himself has been held in an unknown location since the generals pushed him out a year after he became Egypt's first democratically elected president.

The army also shut down several TV stations, including one operated by the Muslim Brotherhood, and the offices of Al Jazeera's Egyptian news channel in Cairo.

Interim president

The announcement of the arrests on Thursday came as chief justice Adly Mansour, 67, was sworn in as interim president at a ceremony broadcast live from the Supreme Constitutional Court.



On Wednesday evening, the military chief announced that the new interim president will serve until elections at a yet-to-be determined date, as he laid out a roadmap for a political transition that includes a freeze on the Islamist-drafted constitution.

Dressed in a dark blue suit and a sky blue tie, Mansour used his first remarks as interim leader to praise the massive street demonstrations that led to Morsi's ouster.

He hailed the youth behind the protests that began on June 30 and brought out millions around the country.

*June 30 "corrected the path of the glorious revolution that took place on Jan. 25," he said, referring to the revolt against autocrat Hosni Mubarak that began January 25, 2011 and led to his ouster 18 days later.
*
"The most glorious thing about June 30 is that it brought together everyone without discrimination or division," he said.

"I offer my greetings to the revolutionary people of Egypt."

*"I look forward to parliamentary and presidential elections held with the genuine and authentic will of the people," Mansour said.*

Judicial clash

That fact that Mansour comes from the Constitutional Court adds a symbolic sting to Morsi's ouster.

The Islamist leader and his Muslim Brotherhood backers had repeatedly clashed with the judiciary, particularly the constitutional court, while in power, accusing the judges of being loyalists of former autocrat Hosni Mubarak, who was ousted in a 2011 uprising, and saying they seek to undermine Egypt's shift to democratic rule.


Muslim Brotherhood's supreme leader Mohamed Badie (left) and his deputy, Khairat el-Shater
The judges, meanwhile, had repeatedly challenged the Brotherhood's policies and what many in Egypt considered the group's march to power.

The Constitutional Court dissolved the Islamist-dominated parliament in June last year, saying it was illegally elected. It rejected a Morsi decree to reinstate the chamber.

*The Brotherhood announced it would boycott the new military-sponsored political process and called on its supporter to restrain themselves and not use violence.

"We declare our uncompromising rejection of the military coup staged against the elected president and the will of the nation and refuse to participate in any activist with the usurping authorities," said the statement, which the group's mufti Abdel-Rahman el-Barr read to the Morsi's supporters staging a days-long sit-in in Cairo.*

Source: Agencies
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They are correcting the path of glorious revolution by bringing back army rule. Its the same as what used to happen in turkey where army and secular "constitutional" court could throw out elected representative as per their will.


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## ResurgentIran

al-Hasani said:


> Well East Asia is really only Japan and South Korea obviously since there is no other there. China are horrible and all the remaining nations there despite big populations. I was solely talking about Japan and South Korea.
> 
> Australia is not East Asia but they compete in Oceania.
> 
> Yes, all Arab countries are better than all those you mentioned but they are also among the worst teams in the world.
> 
> Well youth infrastructure is another thing altogether. Most Arabs countries have that too and Iran as well. It's not Africa that we are talking about here.
> 
> Well, right now the talent mass is better in South Korea and Japan in my opinion. Before it was in West Asia. Times changes and football is not any different.
> 
> Most importantly many West Asian players lack discipline while Japanese and South Korean players are really disciplined hence why so many of them play at good top clubs in Europe. Or just look at their club teams in the Asian Champions League.
> 
> AFC Champions League - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Anyway I do hope that the Arab teams will again dominate but I believe that it will take some time. UAE - just won the Gulf Cup - ironically most of their players had Yemeni origin including the best Arab player currently - Omar Abdul-Rahman Al-Amoodi and Iraq.
> 
> KSA who used to be the best Arab team are struggling now but some of the youth teams seems to have a lot of potential. Will have to wait though.
> 
> Frank Rijkaard was a fiasco though.
> 
> Anyway they are not even close to the teams from 20-10 years back that dominated the Asian Cup or took part in 4 World Cup's in a row or even played in the Confederation Cup finals in the middle of the 1990's.



Well yes there is football infrastructure, but not to same extent as SK and Japan. Lets look at Saudi Arabia and Iran as clear examples of everything that is wrong. They dont invest the way South Korea and Japan does. Must be investment in all aspects from the grass root. Facilities, youth program, leagues, issue of privatization etc.

Just look at Iranian and Saudi league. Not nearly competetive enough. So many serious flaws. Most teams are government owned and the players are OVERPAYED. This kills their motivation to pursue careers in more competetive leagues in Europe (while earnign less money). 
These overpayed primadonnas would rather choose comfort and stay at home, earning money they dont deserve (in such high amounts).

So we dont have the same conditions for success as SK and Japan. The system needs much reform.

South Korea and Japan does have talent, no quesiton. The difference being they invest much more and plan 10-20 years ahead.

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## Imran Khan

domocracy fucked up  here is egypt at 18 June 1953


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## truthseeker2010

Tashan to barabar hain...... General Learn something......


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## BATMAN

One indian complained that Arabs are happy, but why (arab) al-jazeera and basijis are running like mad cow?

Can you not continue sharing your emotions in single thread?


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## Gold1010

flamer84 said:


> Not true,i watched CNN to,every hour they had a reporter giving live feeds from the pro Morsi rallies,they had guests from the MB stating their opinion.
> 
> I am still amazed to see that many people here don't understand that democracy isn't about electing someone and that guy does whatever he wants until next elections,you have to rule within rules and respect the minority.Morsi wanted to transform Egypt in an islamic state,that goes outside democracy,in fact islamic rule is the opposite.He had to go for Egypt to have a chance at survival.


I can second this, CNN showed both rally's as well as both opinions.

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## BATMAN

Here comes another un-happy hindu!


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## Solomon2

4 July 2013 Last updated at 13:04 ET 

Egypt army arrests key figures in Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood





Mr Mansour praised the armed forces and the Egyptian people

*Egypt's military has moved against the leadership of the Muslim Brotherhood a day after deposing President Mohammed Morsi.*

Mr Morsi is being detained, as well as senior figures in the Islamist group of which he is a member. Hundreds more are being sought.

The top judge of Egypt's Constitutional Court, Adly Mahmud Mansour, has been sworn in as interim leader.

He has pledged to hold elections based on "the genuine people's will".

But senior figures in the Brotherhood and its political wing, the Freedom and Justice Party (FJP), were quoted as saying they would not work with the new powers - but would not take up arms or encourage followers to do so either.

The upheaval comes after days of mass rallies against Mr Morsi and the Brotherhood.

We don't have a democracy anymore. The military have taken it away from us. We will take to the streets and stay there

Some 50 people have died since the latest unrest began on Sunday, with correspondents saying that there are continuing fears of confrontation between the pro- and anti-Morsi blocs.

A coalition of Islamist parties - the National Coalition in Support of Legitimacy - has called for mass mobilisations to denounce the army's actions following prayers on Friday.

*Warrants*
Gehad el-Haddad, a spokesman for the Muslim Brotherhood, earlier told the BBC that Mr Morsi had been put under house arrest and the "entire presidential team" was in detention.

The army said Mr Morsi, Egypt's first freely elected leader, had "failed to meet the demands of the people".

Mr Haddad's father, senior Morsi aide Essam el-Haddad, and Saad al-Katatni, head of the FJP, are among those being held.

On Thursday afternoon unnamed officials said Mohammed Badie, supreme leader of the Brotherhood, had been arrested in Marsa Matrouh, a Mediterranean coastal city to the west of Cairo.

Arrest warrants have reportedly been issued for some 300 other members of the Muslim Brotherhood, including Mr Badie's deputy, Khairat al-Shater.

Several TV stations sympathetic to the Brotherhood have been taken off the air, and a state-owned printing press is said to be refusing to print a newspaper run by the FJP.

Protesters accused the Muslim Brotherhood of pursuing an Islamist agenda and of failing to tackle Egypt's economic problems.

Fighter jets trailing smoke drew love hearts in Cairo's smoggy skies on Thursday in apparent celebration of the military's role in ousting Mr Morsi's government.

But across the city, his despondent supporters staged sit-ins in protest at what many are calling a betrayal of the democratic process.

*'Spirit of revolution'*
Mr Mansour was sworn in as chief justice of the Supreme Constitutional Court on Thursday morning, then, shortly after, he took the oath to become interim head of state, vowing to "preserve the system of the republic, and respect the constitution and law, and guard the people's interests".

He said he would safeguard "the spirit of the revolution" which removed Hosni Mubarak from power in 2011, and would "put an end to the idea of worshipping the leader".

He held out an apparent olive branch to the Muslim Brotherhood, saying they were "part of this people and are invited to participate in building the nation".

Mr Mansour said fresh elections were "the only way" forward, but gave no indication of when they would be held.

The army's roadmap for the post-Morsi era includes:


Suspension of the constitution
A civilian, transitional technocratic government
Supreme Constitutional Court to prepare for presidential and parliamentary elections
A "charter of honour" to be drawn up and followed by national media

Events in Egypt have divided international opinion, with the US, UK and UN among those expressing concern and calling for a swift return to civilian rule.

Others, such as Turkey and Tunisia, have been more forthright in their condemnation of the way Mr Morsi has been ousted.

Yet others, such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates - as well as Syrian President Bashar al-Assad - have welcomed the turn of events.

The recent mass protests that led to the army's intervention were called by the Tamarod (Rebel) movement, which said it had collected a 22-million strong petition demanding Mr Morsi stand down.

Me Morsi became Egypt's first Islamist president on 30 June 2012, after winning an election considered free and fair following the 2011 revolution that toppled Mubarak.

However his term in office was marred by constant political unrest and a sinking economy.

His moves to entrench Islamic laws and concentrate power in the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood also alienated liberals and secularists.


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## Cyberian

Check out all the preaching we're getting from the Hindus. Not so long ago, they elected the Hindu Extremist party BJP to power in India and today, majority Hindus here are once again hoping to elect the same Hindu Extremist party to power for another term (Gujarat Massacre 2.0).

The irony of hypocrisy.


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## ResurgentIran

Its too early to tell, and there could be several stages til it gets there, but I think we are witnessing the birth of an independent and rising Egypt.

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## mikkix

agentny17 said:


> Morsi lost his legitimacy the day he ordered his supporters to surround the Supreme Court to prevent the judges from entering the court to say its verdict about the legitimacy of the assembly which was suppose to write the constitution. You are a president as long as you follow and respect the law and the Constitution, once you don't you lose any legitimacy... This is one of so many things he did that he shouldn't have done. You rule by law and order not by force and terror.



Egypt Supreme court never accepts Mursi government and they are acting as Judicial Government and behaves like a PAWN for Army and US.


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## illusion8

mikkix said:


> Egypt Supreme court never accepts Mursi government and they are acting as Judicial Government and behaves like a PAWN for Army and US.



Judiciary never has to follow any Government as such - they are an independent supreme body and, in the case of most democracies around the world are above the Government, military, diplomatic corps or any other body.


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## Frogman

> Egypt Supreme court never accepts Mursi government and they are acting as Judicial Government and behaves like a PAWN for Army and US.



Mursi was appointed as the President by the constitutional court

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## Speaker

That is extreme nonsense. India is 80% Hindu and only once was the BJP elected, and that too because of the frustrations with the corruption of the congress. Even with that many Hindus, the BJP is struggling with its image in most states. You think this can happen with just 15% Muslims?


SUPARCO said:


> Check out all the preaching we're getting from the Hindus. Not so long ago, they elected the Hindu Extremist party BJP to power in India and today, majority Hindus here are once again hoping to elect the same Hindu Extremist party to power for another term (Gujarat Massacres 2.0).
> 
> The irony of hypocrisy.


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## mikkix

illusion8 said:


> Judiciary never has to follow any Government as such - they are an independent supreme body and, in the case of most democracies around the world are above the Government, military, diplomatic corps or any other body.



Yes you are right but Does supreme court has the right to stop the government to do any amendments in constitution??
Supreme court did not allowed them to amend the constitution and trying to impose the government to run the state like what they want....
Its like Judicial Martial Law..


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## illusion8

mikkix said:


> *Yes you are right but Does supreme court has the right to stop the government to do any amendments in constitution??*
> Supreme court did not allowed them to amend the constitution and trying to impose the government to run the state like what we want....
> Its like Judicial Martial Law..



Yes they do and a lot else. That is the sole reason why they are called the Supreme body.


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## Solomon2

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> we wont do a thing what we care about is a constitution that represent all Egyptians whoever will be in power cant use the army police judges for political gains and that is what we want


The last Constitution was approved by only 20% of the electorate. What proportion of the Egyptian electorate must vote "yes" to a new Constitution before you consider it valid? 50%? 75%? 

(The U.S. Constitution wasn't approved by direct election but was deemed approved once 9 of the 13 state legislatures ratified it: from there the timetable of transition from the old Articles of Confederation to the new Constitution took about nine months.)


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## anonymus

Solomon2 said:


> Not always. The French Revolutionaries yes, Imperial Athens yes, Pakistan most of the time. These parties all had in common that (1) the assumption their State had rights others did not, (2) the rights of individuals were overruled by the right of the mob, and (3) there was no fundamental moral basis that limited politicians from seeking the tyrannical aggrandizement of State power.
> 
> By contrast, the American Revolutionaries were mostly deists who saw government as a "necessary evil"; our Founding Fathers realized the people could do wrong, and that even democratic government could fail. That's why American government has checks and balances.
> 
> But the people and politicians have to support it to sustain it. When asked after the 1787 Constitutional Convention what kind of government the United States now had, Benjamin Franklin replied, "A republic, _if you can keep it."_




You are choosing wrong examples.

Neither was athens a fanatic democracy, nor were American founding father fanatics.

I too believe that democracy is the best system in most of the circumstances. Democracy is a social contract that an elected representatives have with their constituencies, a fact *most* of the posters on this forum does not understand. Democracy does not stop at polling booth and people are not elected to be dictators.


Most of people have a need to complete their identity by believing in something passionately. For majority it is religion but for few it is the nebulous concepts like Democracy, freedom ,world peace etc.

The problem is that everyone is not Nietzsche and is incapable of becoming a Übermensch having his independent belief system and usually readymade belief systems like communism, maoism , democracy etc.

In this case the particular ideology assumes same function as religion for that person with its accompanies strands of fanaticism. That is the reason Marxist are as obnoxious as religious fundamentalists.


The Democracy Zealots that i was referring to were not founding fathers but members of Obama's staff who believe that Democracy is the best option even if it brings rabid dictators.

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## mikkix

illusion8 said:


> Yes they do and a lot else. That is the sole reason why they are called the Supreme body.



NO, BIG NO, they don't, constitution is made for changes its not like Holy Book, infact these days people changes their Holy books so why not constitution. Who has the right to amend the constitution then???
May be in India you guys made Supreme Court Above then Constitution...


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## BATMAN

Gentelman said:


> well I don't welcome this dictatorship through 1st creating unrest and then giving deadline and throwing away the elected government&#8230;&#8230;










Aeronaut said:


> Im disappointed but not surprised. Establishment of tyrany makes good business sense!



Where do you see tyrany? and how do you see UAE enforcing it on Egypt?
If you are referring to the welcome note.. than at least they are not doing any thing in hidden!

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## Speaker

Morsi was elected democratically, and he was removed as per the will of the people. As there was no provision to do this through parliament, the army acted on behalf of the people. Hence he was removed democratically as well.

He misused the mandate and was steering the country towards religious fanaticism.


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## illusion8

mikkix said:


> *NO, BIG NO, they don't*, constitution is made for changes its not like Holy Book, infact these days people changes their Holy books so why not constitution. Who has the right to amend the constitution then???
> May be in India you guys made Supreme Court Above then Constitution...



Yes they do, and their actions doesn't give the right for any Government to take the Supreme court hostage.


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## mikkix

Speaker said:


> Morsi was elected democratically, and he was removed as per the will of the people. As there was no provision to do this through parliament, the army acted on behalf of the people. Hence he was removed democratically as well.
> 
> He misused the mandate and was steering the country towards religious fanaticism.



Wah Wah,
Now I get it, its all about political Islam not democracy, Army kicked him out from Government.
Army has no right.
If Indian Army kicked BJP or Congress out then it is f9 for your thought.
People saw your faces now...



illusion8 said:


> Yes they do, and their actions doesn't give the right for any Government to take the Supreme court hostage.



NOOOOOOOOOOO.
We have a technical disagreement and constitutionally I am right.
Indian Law may have something like this but not in Egypt and Pakistan..

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## BLACKEAGLE

Solomon2 said:


> @BLACKEAGLE, I'm worried that M-B and al-Qaeda troublemakers currently in Egypt are going to flee to Jordan now. Is there any kind of security alert in Jordan to catch these guys before they can pull off another assassination or Black September? Or will your gov't cynically push them into the fighting in Syria?



Stop being silly.

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## Solomon2

Arabian Legend said:


> Influential Muslim cleric Youssef Al-Qaradawi, an Egyptian seen close to the Muslim Brotherhood who had lived in Qatar for many years, is reported to be in Egypt. He had denied reports that Qatar's new emir, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al-Thani, had asked him to leave the country.


Only two weeks ago the White House rolled out the red carpet for one of Qaradawi's deputies. No wonder Obama has been leading with his behind on Egypt matters.

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## illusion8

mikkix said:


> NOOOOOOOOOOO.
> We have a technical disagreement and constitutionally I am right.
> Indian Law may have something like this but not in Egypt and Pakistan..



I am not aware of Egypt or Pakistan democracy - both being nascent one's, but this is the standard format in most proven democratic states.

The Supreme court can throw the book at anybody and everybody.


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Solomon2 said:


> The last Constitution was approved by only 20% of the electorate. What proportion of the Egyptian electorate must vote "yes" to a new Constitution before you consider it valid? 50%? 75%?
> 
> (The U.S. Constitution wasn't approved by direct election but was deemed approved once 9 of the 13 state legislatures ratified it: from there the timetable of transition from the old Articles of Confederation to the new Constitution took about nine months.)


i think it is too early to say but what i am sure of is all the mistakes in the past will not happen again and we will do it right this time


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## Solomon2

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Stop being silly.


Not silly. Ignorance.


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## Solomon2

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> i think it is too early to say but what i am sure of is all the mistakes in the past will not happen again and we will do it right this time


Are you going to lay back now and assume that happens automatically or are you going to take an active role in the process?


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## BLACKEAGLE

Solomon2 said:


> Not silly. Ignorance.



Ignorance is different than being not so smart to put it nicely. You're a good follower of events around the world especially the ME, yet you still come up with gullible things.

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## mikkix

illusion8 said:


> I am not aware of Egypt or Pakistan democracy - both being nascent one's, but this is the standard format in most proven democratic states.
> 
> The Supreme court can throw the book at anybody and everybody.



cant you understand the difference between to throw any brick to anyone and stop government to do amendments.
In India does supreme court can stop manmohan to do trade WITH US or can have the power to change indian constitution and made him Islamic or any other than Secular, IF yes then you may be right in your case.


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## Solomon2

Yusuf al-Qaradawi's next move may be very important. As the closest thing the transnational Muslim Brotherhood has to a spiritual leader, his rulings "legitimized" suicide bombings; some Arabs have been calling on him to reverse his judgment: link. Yet the collapse of his favored regime in Egypt to the mobilized millions on the streets strongly implies that there is no way left to advance the M-B agenda save through violence and terror. Which way will he choose? [h/t: Crossroads Arabia]

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## Solomon2

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Ignorance is different than being not so smart to put it nicely. You're a good follower of events around the world especially the ME, yet you still come up with gullible things.


True. I don't know much about Jordan nowadays which is why I'm asking you.


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## illusion8

mikkix said:


> cant you understand the difference between to throw any brick to anyone and stop government to do amendments.
> *In India does supreme court can stop manmohan to do trade WITH US or can have the power to change indian constitution and made him Islamic or any other than Secular, IF yes then you may be right in your case.*



If the Supreme court thinks that it's unconstitutional or harms India in any way then YES of course they can, but then the normal practice is to let each branch take care of it's job responsibilities unless the court feels otherwise and can overrule any decisions.

Besides, the point is, it doesn't give any right for a President to take the supreme court hostage.


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## mb444

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> i think it is too early to say but what i am sure of is all the mistakes in the past will not happen again and we will do it right this time




You did not allow the democratically elected leader to write the constitution but you think these malcontents who are unable to win through the ballot box will somehow magically come up with a constitution agreeable to all. Maybe I should revise my lifelong view that democracy is for everyone, maybe what some have said is true.... Democracy can only exist in educated well informed mature societies . It is sad to see such naivety.... Egyptians has just been played by world powers and they cant even see it.

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## iranigirl2

They should send all Muslim Brotherhood officials to Qatar, if they want to establish their Caliphate they can do it right in Doha!


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Solomon2 said:


> Are you going to lay back now and assume that happens automatically or are you going to take an active role in the process?


of course no the people will guard their revolution


> You did not allow the democratically elected leader to write the constitution but you think these malcontents who are unable to win through the ballot box will somehow magically come up with a constitution agreeable to all. Maybe I should revise my lifelong view that democracy is for everyone, maybe what some have said is true.... Democracy can only exist in educated well informed mature societies . It is sad to see such naivety.... Egyptians has just been played by world powers and they cant even see it.


 you can wait and see what will happen

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## mikkix

illusion8 said:


> If the Supreme court thinks that it's unconstitutional or harms India in any way then YES of course they can, but then the normal practice is to let each branch take care of it's job responsibilities unless the court feels otherwise and can overrule any decisions.



So in India you cant do changes in constitution because it is unconstitutional to change constitution  argh...
Does Supreme court of India testifies that which is harmful or good for India? WOW, Supreme court has only powers to make sure that LAW is enforcing in the country as per constitution.


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## Frogman

> You did not allow the democratically elected leader to write the constitution but you think these malcontents who are unable to win through the ballot box will somehow magically come up with a constitution agreeable to all. Maybe I should revise my lifelong view that democracy is for everyone, maybe what some have said is true.... Democracy can only exist in educated well informed mature societies . It is sad to see such naivety.... Egyptians has just been played by world powers and they cant even see it.



In what world does an elected leader write a constitution?


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## iranigirl2




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## illusion8

mikkix said:


> So in India you cant do changes in constitution because it is unconstitutional to change constitution  argh...
> Does Supreme court of India testifies that which is harmful or good for India? WOW, Supreme court has only powers to make sure that LAW is enforcing in the country as per constitution.



The Supreme court is the Guardian of the constitution, the thing is the court involves itself mostly when the matter comes to it and generally not otherwise - but then it's decision is final on any and every matter.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Solomon2 said:


> True. I don't know much about Jordan nowadays which is why I'm asking you.



MB tried all their best to achieve their goals in Jordan, they got much more aggressive and defiant after Arab Spring and more and more after MB got the reign in Egypt, however, they didn't manage to get enough popularity to help them achieving their goals, and that's due to that most Jordanians don't trust them, and the tribal mentality rather than political parties culture that still dominate our political life. Moreover, Jordanians are different than Egyptians, they are educated and loyal to the Hashimite Monarchy. Now, the Jordanian MB is weaker than ever before, their agendas got crushed by ousting Morsi. As for Salafis, they are just getting along, you would rarely hear about them in Jordan.

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## Luffy 500

No coup can happen in egypt without US green light and this one wasn't either. Nice drama bing played out zionist loons.


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## Imran Khan

wasm95 said:


> SO EGYPT WILL BE BACK IN US LAP



when egypt leave US lap last time ?


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## gambit

Developereo said:


> YAWN.
> 
> Another lame attempt to play the anti-Semitism victim card.
> 
> The CIA's role in toppling Mossadeq is well known.


Meaning...Well exaggerated. For the Muslims, it is unthinkable that they may have contradictory views, even when there is an obviously odious character like Saddam Hussein. Any opposition by any Muslim against any Muslim could only come from the CIA-Zionists alliance. Now *THAT* is the biggest yawn of them all.


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## Imran Khan

truthseeker2010 said:


> Tashan to barabar hain...... General Learn something......



you want him to throw gov? are you crazy ? we have one of the best general which respect democracy and vote himself . military is not the solution its like you have problem and you take drugs .


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## iranigirl2

Luffy 500 said:


> No coup can happen in egypt without US green light and this one wasn't either. Nice drama bing played out zionist loons.



Egyptian Opposition Activist Loses His Cool, Following President Morsi's Speech - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS5viyeLLrE


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## Speaker

mikkix said:


> Wah Wah,
> Now I get it, its all about political Islam not democracy, Army kicked him out from Government.
> Army has no right.
> If Indian Army kicked BJP or Congress out then it is f9 for your thought.
> People saw your faces now...



Are you high on something? Morsi's ouster was also a democratic thing. More people wanted him to go than stay. Isn't that how democracy works? I agree the army should have stayed away, but in their country there was no other way out.

As far as India is concerned, I would support military intervention if the government tried to bring in religion into the constitution - be it Congress or the BJP. But not for corruption or sub-par performance.


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## Thəorətic Muslim

Solomon2 said:


> The last Constitution was approved by only 20% of the electorate. What proportion of the Egyptian electorate must vote "yes" to a new Constitution before you consider it valid? 50%? 75%?
> 
> (The U.S. Constitution wasn't approved by direct election but was deemed approved once 9 of the 13 state legislatures ratified it: from there the timetable of transition from the old Articles of Confederation to the new Constitution took about nine months.)



BBS says the turnout was 33% with 64% approving. 

Who's fault was it that the constitution was approved when apparently the "Majority" doesnt like it? Can't be Morsi's fault his people got to the ballot while the opposition decided to go on a field trip to Alexandria or Sheikh al Shams.


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## agentny17

mikkix said:


> Egypt Supreme court never accepts Mursi government and they are acting as Judicial Government and behaves like a PAWN for Army and US.


Who did what ?!!!


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## BLACKEAGLE

People who I know are so pissed off at ousting Morsi, my work colleagues, my family and friends, hell.. even my manager.


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## Falcon29

It's a war on political Islam, because political Islam is anti New World Order, and what do you know? Unfortunately, a portion of Egyptians fell into the trap of another yet again US, Israeli influenced and controlled regime. Which will be anti palestinian just like before and is meant to serve Israel's interests. 

But, this is the world today, what do you expect, too much ignorance. The fabrications succeeded and people enjoy being slaves to their governments, which export this new world order. 

Enjoy your lives in the next decade, the world will only wake up to western expansionism and tyranny at the last moment, only when it actually starts severely affecting westerners lives. 

I guess people like having their private lives interfere by the governments and I guess Arabs do enjoy being extensions of America. This is the Middle East, all an extension of America. 

That sure does us so much good.

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## Frogman

> It's a war on political Islam, because political Islam is anti New World Order, and what do you know? Unfortunately, a portion of Egyptians fell into the trap of another yet again US, Israeli influenced and controlled regime. Which will be anti palestinian just like before and is meant to serve Israel's interests.
> 
> But, this is the world today, what do you expect, too much ignorance. The fabrications succeeded and people enjoy being slaves to their governments, which export this new world order.
> 
> Enjoy your lives in the next decade, the world will only wake up to western expansionism and tyranny at the last moment, only when it actually starts severely affecting westerners lives.
> 
> I guess people like having their private lives interfere by the governments and I guess Arabs do enjoy being extensions of America. This is the Middle East, all an extension of America.
> 
> That sure does us so much good.



Yet, you live in the US......

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## Falcon29

BLACKEAGLE said:


> People who I know are so pissed off at ousting Morsi, my work colleagues, my family and friends, hell.. even my manager.



I am too, because now it's become a planned persecution. Bro, see it for yourself, once political Islam is gone, get ready for a whole new world. This is major development, and we Arabs will always stay the underdogs, being extensions of America so we can limited in making any beneficial progress that israel and the USA don't want us to see. They like us where we are and want us to stay in this state. Yet, we still have people who cheer on this installed puppet tyrannical western manifest destiny.

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## truthseeker2010

Imran Khan said:


> you want him to throw gov? are you crazy ? we have one of the best general which respect democracy and vote himself . military is not the solution its like you have problem and you take drugs .



I am not saying military rule..... he has already lost his prime moments.... and what happened in Egypt is just 1/100 of what has already happened over hear..... highest order of corruption, badest governance, country's sovereignty ripped apart hundreds of times... and economy in its poorest state...... He must had given the rulers a shut up call or else have done what sissi have done...... take them out and make INTERIM RULERS to conduct new elections, instead of getting himself in power.... which has always been the case..... which is why people think that the coup is military rule.


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## flamer84

I like some of the members strong logic:"We are used by the west,we must advance,we must look to the future...............................................by using laws written 1400 years ago "...flawless

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## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> Yet, you live in the US......



I'm actually right next door, and left from Egypt not too long ago. I definitely realized the situation was horrible. But this is not the right path, because it will bring Egyptians back to where they were. I hope good for them, but I don't like games like this.

And then some Fatah officials went on to say they hope Palestinians in Gaza revolt against Hamas when most here appreciate Hamas but it also shows that Fatah is an Israeli/American shadowy group which literally serves anti palestinian interests and is working with the snakes to destroy any people that wish to be independent of American tyranny and control of their lives. 

We all know exactly how America operates and what it intends with middle easterners, with the exception of Israelis. All to serve israel and to weaken our nations and give them influence in each country. It's bad. And getting ridiculous.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Hazzy997 said:


> I am too, because now it's become a planned persecution. Bro, see it for yourself, once political Islam is gone, get ready for a whole new world. This is major development, and we Arabs will always stay the underdogs, being extensions of America so we can limited in making any beneficial progress that israel and the USA don't want us to see. They like us where we are and want us to stay in this state. Yet, we still have people who cheer on this installed puppet tyrannical western manifest destiny.




Bro, I can't debate you since I don't believe in those conspiracy theories. I mean, of course there are American designs to follow their interests, but we as well have our interests and we'll only follow the best that suit ours. I strongly believe that ousting the MB is a good thing for Egypt and Arabs. Anyway, Egyptians have decided to topple Mubarak, elect Morsi, and topple him again. It's their country and they are the only who will be held accountable of their decisions whether they are right or wrong.


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## Frogman

> I'm actually right next door, and left from Egypt not too long ago. I definitely realized the situation was horrible. But this is not the right path, because it will bring Egyptians back to where they were. I hope good for them, but I don't like games like this.
> 
> And then some Fatah officials went on to say they hope Palestinians in Gaza revolt against Hamas when most here appreciate Hamas but it also shows that Fatah is an Israeli/American shadowy group which literally serves anti palestinian interests and is working with the snakes to destroy any people that wish to be independent of American tyranny and control of their lives.
> 
> We all know exactly how America operates and what it intends with middle easterners, with the exception of Israelis. All to serve israel and to weaken our nations and give them influence in each country. It's bad. And getting ridiculous.



Have you seen the official statements released by the American foreign secretary and Obama himself. None of those are in favour of what has happened and believe that Mohammed Mursi should have stayed. Now if he was a real threat to American or Israeli interests this would not have happened or at least when he was overthrown the Americans would have immediately switched sides as they did in 2011.

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## iranigirl2

CAIRO &#8211; A banner screaming "Wake Up America" hung Thursday in Tahrir Square, the heart of the 2011 revolution and center of much of the latest unrest that has erupted across the capital this week.

"Obama supports terrorism," says another massive sign -- again underscoring widespread anger and blame directed at the U.S. president as Egypt staggers through a troubled change of leadership.

It was a frantic day in Cairo that saw Egypt's top judge sworn in as the nation's interim president. Military leaders pressed a crackdown on leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Islamist party of deposed leader Mohammed Morsi. Both sides accused the U.S. of having a hand in the turmoil rocking the country. 

The widespread perception rumbling through anti-Morsi crowds is that President Obama has been in bed with the Muslim Brotherhood, said Shadi Hamid, director of research for the Brookings Doha Center.

"Some of it was inevitable," Hamid said, because the U.S. must to work with elected governments and wanted to have a productive relationship with Morsi. "That's standard U.S. policy."

Moreover, anyone who came out vocally in support of the electoral process here was accused of backing the Brotherhood, because the organization typically did so well in elections, he said.

The belief that Obama has backed Morsi is obvious at Tahrir Square, just one meeting place for Morsi opponents who flooded the streets over the past four days, demanding his resignation and calling for new elections. 

"We really feel so bad because of Obama," said Adly Hassan, 60. "He supports Morsi and the Egyptian people are really upset."

U.S. Ambassador to Egypt Anne Patterson is also drawing ire in the square, where posters feature a huge red "X" over her face. 

In the lead-up to massive demonstrations that kicked off June 30, Patterson gave a speech that intensified anger at Washington, analysts said. Patterson said she sought "to set the record straight" and that she and the U.S. government are "deeply skeptical" that "street action will produce better results than elections."

"Egypt needs stability to get its economic house in order, and more violence on the streets will do little more than add new names to the lists of martyrs," she said in a June 18 speech. "Instead, I recommend Egyptians get organized. Join or start a political party that reflects your values and aspirations. Egyptians need to know a better path forward."

But Egyptians rose up across the country starting Sunday, with tens of thousands rallying in the streets and effectively ousting Morsi when the nation's military imposed a transitional plan Wednesday. On Thursday, Adly Mansour was sworn in as the nation's interim president after Egypt's army suspended the nation's constitution, called for fresh elections and arrested Morsi and other Brotherhood leaders.

"Obama should listen to us and understand the Egyptian people," said protester Noha El Amroussi. "Obama should learn from the Egyptians."

In a statement Wednesday, Obama said the U.S. is "deeply concerned by the decision of the Egyptian Armed Forces to remove President Morsi and suspend the Egyptian constitution" &#8211; words likely to spur more anger among the opposition.

"I now call on the Egyptian military to move quickly and responsibly to return full authority back to a democratically elected civilian government as soon as possible through an inclusive and transparent process, and to avoid any arbitrary arrests of President Morsi and his supporters," he said. 

Obama also said that relevant departments and agencies will review implications for U.S. assistance to Egypt, which totals $1.6 million in annual aid, the bulk of which goes to the military.

Morsi supporters also had issues with U.S. involvement. Outside a Cairo mosque, Morsi backer Mohamed Ibrahim denounced what he called "American intervention" in Egypt's affairs and said the "military coup" was supported by the U.S., which wanted the old regime back in power because of Israeli interests. 

"It's because of the Zionists and the Israelis, that is why America is supporting this coup," Ibrahim said.

Salah Abdallah, a supporter of Morsi who lives in the Nile Delta, said Obama should have done more to keep Morsi in power, given that Morsi came to power through the polls. 

"They are supposed to defend the democratic regime," Abdallah said. "We are not extremists. We respect all kinds of people."

*For all the controversy, don't expect the new leadership to push the U.S. away, some experts said.

Egyptian military leaders "need to be allied with this superpower because the economy isn't strong enough for Egypt to be fully independent in its foreign policy," said Firas Abi Ali, a Middle East and North Africa analyst at IHS in London. "They find themselves reliant on the Gulf, aid from the American allies, and the support of the U.S. and the IMF."*



In Egypt, U.S. draws ire from both sides


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## BLACKEAGLE

Frogman said:


> Have you seen the official statements released by the American foreign secretary and Obama himself. None of those are in favour of what has happened and believe that Mohammed Mursi should have stayed. Now if he was a real threat to American or Israeli interests this would not have happened or at least when he was overthrown the Americans would have immediately switched sides as they did in 2011.



During the worst times of Arab Spring in Jordan six months ago when some protesters started attacking policemen and public places, I took this caption from an Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood FB member calling for violence, this is just one, not to mention MB leaders in Jordan and many others in Egypt were all over Facebook:












&#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607;&#1605; &#1588;&#1605;&#1575;&#1578;&#1607;

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## Kompromat

@BATMAN

You'll find out soon enough.


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## livingdead

mikkix said:


> So in India you cant do changes in constitution because it is unconstitutional to change constitution  argh...
> Does Supreme court of India testifies that which is harmful or good for India? WOW, Supreme court has only powers to make sure that LAW is enforcing in the country as per constitution.


it is difficult to bring a constitutional amendment (required 2/3 vote I think). Supreme court of India does not allow to tinker with basic premise of constitution. Thats the recent phenomena of judicial activism, and I dont think any future govt can take on supreme court easily(due to fracturred mandate they get)


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## Kompromat

Those thinking that the brotherhood has just vanished after 86 years,are either fools or outright retarded.

Here is a question. "What if they win this election again??" 

Egyptian military has a never ending thirst for absolute power. What will it do?

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## BLACKEAGLE

*King congratulates Adly Mansour of his appointment as Egypt's interim president*






AMMAN &#8211; His Majesty King Abdullah II on Thursday congratulated the Head of the Supreme Constitutional Court of Egypt Adly Mansour on his appointment as Egypt's interim president.

In a cable sent to the interim Egyptian president, the King stressed his absolute keenness to continue to work to enhance the bilateral ties in various fields in the common interest of both peoples.

In his cable, His Majesty also highlighted Egypt's leading and important role at the regional and international levels as well as Jordan's support to the will expressed by the Egyptian people and the choice they made, adding that the Egyptian people have proved their ability to overcome challenges with wisdom and courage under all circumstances.

King Abdullah also asserted his keenness to continue coordination and consultations regarding the Arab and regional issues to add to the joint Arab actions and work to address challenges facing our nation and serve their just causes. (Petra)

King congratulates Adly Mansour of his appointment as Egypt's interim president | Main News | Ammon News

*Jordan voices support to Egyptian people, transitional leadership*

AMMAN (Petra) &#8211; Minister of Foreign Affairs and Expatriate Affairs Nasser Judeh said Wednesday that Jordan was closely following the unfolding situation in Egypt since the two countries have shared close historical ties over the years, as have the two peoples.

In a statement to Petra late Wednesday, Judeh reiterated Jordan's firm and clear view that it will respect the will of the Egyptian people whose resolve has left the whole world amazed with their conviction and determination not to relent. Jordan, he added, appreciated the views and concerns of the genuine and national Egyptian political spectrum, especially the youth, who only bring intellectual and moral credit to the Arab nation.

Further, the minister reiterated Jordan's deep respect for the Egyptian armed forces and their national and vital role in Egypt and the Arab national security system. He also appreciated the role of Al-Azhar Al-Sharif at the national level and appreciated the part it played in enlightening the Muslim world. He also hailed the role of the national Coptic Church and the Egyptian Judiciary, represented by the President of the Supreme Constitutional Court who will take over as the transitional president of Egypt.

Judeh reiterated the Jordanian government's hope to restore sense of security and stability in Egypt, thanks to the pivotal role it played in the Arab and international arenas.

Jordan voices support to Egyptian people, transitional leadership | Main News | Ammon News

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## Frogman

Aeronaut said:


> Those thinking that the brotherhood has just vanished after 86 years,are either fools or outright retarded.
> 
> Here is a question. "What if they win this election again??"
> 
> Egyptian military has a never ending thirst for absolute power. What will it do?



They will never vanish, however, now they're weak and no longer have sympathizers only followers and to a large extent they have been exposed as frauds.

They simply do not have the numbers to win an election on their own. They relied on the revolutionary vote the last time as Mursi was seen as the lesser of the two evils.

Have you even read the first communique?

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## Kompromat

@Frogman

Lets for a minute stop worrying about, the ''forigen vested interests.'' Lets talk about Egyptian interests.

For now what has happened is a black day for Egypt. Mursi was a legit,democratically elected leader who was deposed in a military coup within one year of winning office.

The most valuable asset for Egypt is 'stability' right now. Why did military give in to 'Streetism' of the leftists ?

Does it create 'stability' or 'alienation' ??


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## livingdead

Frogman said:


> They will never vanish, however, but now they're weak and no longer have sympathizers only followers and to a large extent they have been exposed as frauds.
> 
> They simply do not have the numbers to win an election on their own. They relied on the revolutionary vote the last time as Mursi was seen as the lesser of the two evils.
> 
> Have you even read the first communique?



frogman, are you a copt?


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## muse

When will Pakistan show the islamicans the same as the brave people of Egypt?

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## Juice

SUPARCO said:


> Check out all the preaching we're getting from the Hindus. Not so long ago, they elected the Hindu Extremist party BJP to power in India and today, majority Hindus here are once again hoping to elect the same Hindu Extremist party to power for another term (Gujarat Massacres 2.0).
> 
> The irony of hypocrisy.



So you agree religion should be kept from politics!


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## illusion8

Aeronaut said:


> For now what has happened is a black day for Egypt. Mursi was a legit,democratically elected leader who was deposed in a military coup within one year of winning office.



As someone pointed out, wish we could do that with our Governments - that is give them the boot if found unsatisfactory or non performing within one year.


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## Jihad_

What is wrong with God's laws?


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## qamar1990

OrionHunter said:


> A Muslim commentator in an interview on BBC mentioned today that political Islam is a disaster. "You can't mix religion and politics. That's the very reason why the Islamic world is where it is today - on the way to self destruction!"
> 
> Wow! That was strong stuff but then isn't it the truth?



idk is it?
what is democracy? what has democracy done? i dont see nothing good that democracy did yet in this world besides war spying poverty imperialism.

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## Frogman

> frogman, are you a copt?


 Nope, I'm agnostic.



> For now what has happened is a black day for Egypt. Mursi was a legit,democratically elected leader who was deposed in a military coup within one year of winning office.



The Egyptian people practiced their constitutional and democratic right to protest in their millions (17 million+) against the Morsi regime and signed a democratic grass roots petition (gained 22 million signings) that called for presidential elections. Now since the (disastrous) Egyptian constitution doesn't provide a constitutional process by which a compromise or change can come about the military (strongest institution in Egypt, which maintained all its constitutional powers under the MB) had to get involved as a result. Their intentions are clear (as mentioned, read the first communique) and the first step to civilian rule has happened today.



> The most valuable asset for Egypt is 'stability' right now. Why did military give in to 'Streetism' of the leftists ?


 Democracy is the will of the people and the people in their millions were on the streets those from the right of politics and those from the left and those who have no political affiliations whatsoever. The street has become the only place in Egypt that ones voice can be heard as all representative institutions have been found illegitimate or are a complete farce. These protests are not for stability, they are to reignite the revolution which called for bread (which signifies life in Egypt) freedom and social justice.



> Does it create 'stability' or 'alienation' ??


 We shall see, however, I will leave you with this, today the Egyptian stock market made over 22billion Egyptian L.E which is the most its ever made in a day and the EGX30 made a 7.3% jump.

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## shuntmaster

hinduguy said:


> It was wrong to bring a elected president down, dont know why people who believe in democracy should rejoice this..


Morsi was becoming more and more autocratic and was pushing the islamic agenda while failing in governance. 
Even hitler came to power by democratic means. We all know what he did to democracy and any free thinking..


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## qamar1990

hinduguy said:


> iran case is different and not easily replicated in today's world. They have 10% plus copts and sizable young secular middleclass, and a overall neutral army, they would have gone turkey way.



Egypt is going to burn i have a bad feeling, if they do an election a religious muslim will win again thats just the truth, same goes for turkey if erdogan ran again he will win again, 

i have Egyptian friends here who are furious the army did this to the country, they said that these secularists are a small minority in fact eygpt is becoming more islamic by the day.


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## fallstuff

Aeronaut said:


> Those thinking that the brotherhood has just vanished after 86 years,are either fools or outright retarded.
> 
> Here is a question. "What if they win this election again??"
> 
> Egyptian military has a never ending thirst for absolute power. What will it do?



These guys survived Sadat and Mubarak. I don't think MB is going away anytime soon. 

What were Morsis cardinal sins?

Can anybody list them. 

I do see one major fault with this guy, he does not understand the intricacies and the back room dealings in politics. 

He chose to confront when he didnt need to.


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## pkuser2k12

in dreams ppp,mqm aur anp ka haal islamist nay dikha dia aik hi 5 sala haqomat k baad 

MB agay b 80 saal jidojehat karti rahi ab b karay gi

so called egyptian army chief kay saath salafi leader b khara tha jab us nay takrir ki ab egypt salafi aur tafiris kay hawalay aur syria ko Allah bachaey


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## RangerPK

SUPARCO said:


> Check out all the preaching we're getting from the Hindus. Not so long ago, they elected the Hindu Extremist party BJP to power in India and today, majority Hindus here are once again hoping to elect the same Hindu Extremist party to power for another term (Gujarat Massacres 2.0).
> 
> The irony of hypocrisy.



Yes, it seems Muslim genocide has been institutionalized in India. Those are not non state actors, but are very much *State Actors*.

And as for hypocrisy, what can you expect?


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## qamar1990

illusion8 said:


> I can understand your frustration.




the tyrant eygptian army can destroy this democratically elected government but they cant destroy the peoples will. viva islam viva the people of Egypt.



fallstuff said:


> These guys survived Sadat and Mubarak. I don't think MB is going away anytime soon.
> 
> What were Morsis cardinal sins?
> 
> Can anybody list them.
> 
> I do see one major fault with this guy, he does not understand the intricacies and the back room dealings in politics.
> 
> He chose to confront when he didnt need to.




what my egptian friend said is that the people love morsi, these protestors are a joke secularists notice the tone of the media on this its pathetic and unfair, they are covering these secularists while ignoring the counter protests


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## BATMAN

Aeronaut said:


> @Frogman
> 
> Lets for a minute stop worrying about, the ''forigen vested interests.'' Lets talk about Egyptian interests.
> 
> For now what has happened is a black day for Egypt. Mursi was a legit,democratically elected leader who was deposed in a military coup within one year of winning office.
> 
> The most valuable asset for Egypt is 'stability' right now. Why did military give in to 'Streetism' of the leftists ?
> 
> Does it create 'stability' or 'alienation' ??



Please..... first read the title and read the news and listen to propaganda of media.
It is not about democracy.. surprise surprise.. now anti Islam media has sympathies with ISlam and fall of Mursi is being presented as fall of Islam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HELLOOOO......


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## qamar1990

Frogman said:


> They will never vanish, however, now they're weak and no longer have sympathizers only followers and to a large extent they have been exposed as frauds.
> 
> They simply do not have the numbers to win an election on their own. They relied on the revolutionary vote the last time as Mursi was seen as the lesser of the two evils.
> 
> Have you even read the first communique?



my friend d you even live in egypt?
i have friends who just came back recently.

they said that if they hold elections again and be fair! than the brotherhood will win again.


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## Frogman

qamar1990 said:


> the tyrant eygptian army can destroy this democratically elected government but they cant destroy the peoples will. viva islam viva the people of Egypt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what my egptian friend said is that the people love morsi, these protestors are a joke secularists notice the tone of the media on this its pathetic and unfair, they are covering these secularists while ignoring the counter protests



Teezak we teezo hamra











The first words from the protesters mouths when Sisi announced the constitution was annulled temporarily were "Allahu Akbar".
Egypt was before Mursi and after Mursi a predominantly pious Muslim nation.








> my friend d you even live in egypt?
> i have friends who just came back recently.
> 
> they said that if they hold elections again and be fair! than the brotherhood will win again.



I predominantly live in the UK but visit every year. I also spend years there and was schooled there for a limited amount of time and maintain constant contact with my family over there who are all anti-Mursi and guess what they live in Minya Alkamh a poor Egyptian town situated between farming villages and they're all Muslims.

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## Syrian Lion

*Pro-Morsi Vow to Suicide Bomb Everyone Opposed to Them & to Set Christians on Fire​*






This footage is taken from a pro-Morsi demonstration in Egypt after the Egyptian military intervened on behalf of the millions of Egyptians who demanded an end to the rule of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. While addressing Abdul Fattah al-Sisi, the Egyptian commander-in-chief, those who support Morsi vow to become suicide bombers that will target secularists, Christians, Shiites, and all other opposition forces. A lady covered in black vowed to burn her Christian compatriots.

*I don't understand how this created a civil war between Shia and Sunnis?? it wasn't Shias who toppled Morsi, it wasn't Christians, the EGYPTIAN PEOPLE DID IT!
*
__________________________________________________ _______________________________

This is days before Morsi got toppled.. he threatened that MB has booby trapped cars and other type of explosives to use if Morsi is toppled..

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## muse

Remember we warned that Egypt was so destabilized by the fire the Wahabi had started that it might erupt in civil war, and one week later, --- well violence is the only language the Wahabi understands, I hope the Egyptian Army will clean Egyptian society of Wahabis and their sympathizers - The Wahabi have long asserted that all Muslims must submit to them, lets see if the Brave Egyptian Nation and army can teach them a lesson history will recall long in coming And hopefully more Muslims will realize who their enemy is.

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## BLACKEAGLE

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu on Thursday described as "unacceptable" the army's ousting of Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi, an intervention he labelled a "military coup".

"Only can you be removed from duty through elections, that is, the will of the people. It is unacceptable for a government, which has come to power through democratic elections, to be toppled through illicit means and even more, a military coup," Davutoglu told reporters.

Turkey says Mohamed Mursi's removal in Egypt an unacceptable 'coup' - World - DNA


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## Syrian Lion

muse said:


> Remember we warned that Egypt was so destabilized by the fire the Wahabi had started that it might erupt in civil war, and one week later, --- well violence is the only language the Wahabi understands, I hope the Egyptian Army will clean Egyptian society of Wahabis and their sympathizers - The Wahabi have long asserted that all Muslims must submit to them, lets see if the Brave Egyptian Nation and army can teach them a lesson history will recall long in coming And hopefully more Muslims will realize who their enemy is.


well now those terrorists will start terrorizing the country, since they don't have enough popular support, they just go to suicide bombings..

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## pkuser2k12

along with salafis ,takferes the west stooge Al Baradi was standing with Egyptian army chief .the same Al Baradi how was used against iran and iraq


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## Syrian Lion

Double standard much...plus AKP is MB...

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## Kompromat

illusion8 said:


> As someone pointed out, wish we could do that with our Governments - that is give them the boot if found unsatisfactory or non performing within one year.



Pakistanis detested PPP govt but didn't drag them out of office, we did that on the polls. Instability is not something Egypt can afford to have right now.


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## muse

Syrian Lion said:


> well now those terrorists will start terrorizing the country, since they don't have enough popular support, they just go to suicide bombings..



It was always about terror for Wahabis - just study the history of this cult in Arabia, and see what they did to plurality of confessional sects in Arabia, they raided as far as North Africa in their many jihad

You can be sure that the response of most people to Wahabi terrorism will be confusion to begin with .

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## qamar1990

Frogman said:


> Teezak we teezo hamra
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first words from the protesters mouths when Sisi announced the constitution was annulled temporarily were "Allahu Akbar".
> Egypt was before Mursi and after Mursi a predominantly pious Muslim nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I predominantly live in the UK but visit every year. I also spend years there and was schooled there for a limited amount of time and maintain constant contact with my family over there who are all anti-Mursi and guess what they live in Minya Alkamh a poor Egyptian town situated between farming villages and they're all Muslims.






well if this is what the people of egypt want then so be it, but if this is something they dont want we will see the results in upcoming days.
i know it seems like a lot of people but how many do you think are gathered here? 41 million? if not well thats how many voted for morsi.


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## Falcon29

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Bro, I can't debate you since I don't believe in those conspiracy theories. I mean, of course there are American designs to follow their interests, but we as well have our interests and we'll only follow the best that suit ours. I strongly believe that ousting the MB is a good thing for Egypt and Arabs. Anyway, Egyptians have decided to topple Mubarak, elect Morsi, and topple him again. It's their country and they are the only who will be held accountable of their decisions whether they are right or wrong.



Forget what you call conspiracy theories, but this seemed planned from a while ago and now MB supporters and members are being arrested and censored. This path is the wrong path. As for Gaza, Hamas was here long before the MB came to power in Egypt and they will still continue running Gaza. But look at the events leading up to and after the ousting. I don't agree with all that's happened. And Egypt won't change over night, and reform won't be drastic either. Either way, I'm also looking forward for a settled solution with calm for Egypt. Although this censorship of anything Islamic went a little too far. Millions don't stand those who protested and you and others should count them in too.

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## BLACKEAGLE

muse said:


> It was always about terror for Wahabis - just study the history of this cult in Arabia, and see what they did to plurality of confessional sects in Arabia, they raided as far as North Africa in their many jihad
> 
> You can be sure that the response of most people to Wahabi terrorism will be confusion to begin with .



Actually, GCC is the biggest winner from ousting MB who have always posed a serious threat to them and other Arab monarchies. You seem to hate political Islam and extremism, however, I never heard you saying anything about extreme Mullahs in Tahran, and their terror groups, or is it too much to ask for? :/

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## Syrian Lion

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Actually, GCC is the biggest winner from ousting MB who have always posed a serious threat to them and other Arab monarchies. You seem to hate political Islam and extremism, however, I never heard you saying anything about extreme Mullahs in Tahran, and their terror groups, or is it too much to ask for? :/


man you are obsessed with Iran... Iran is your nightmare

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## BLACKEAGLE

Hazzy997 said:


> Forget what you call conspiracy theories, but this seemed planned from a while ago and now MB supporters and members are being arrested and censored. This path is the wrong path. As for Gaza, Hamas was here long before the MB came to power in Egypt and they will still continue running Gaza. But look at the events leading up to and after the ousting. I don't agree with all that's happened. And Egypt won't change over night, and reform won't be drastic either. Either way, I'm also looking forward for a settled solution with calm for Egypt. Although this censorship of anything Islamic went a little too far. Millions don't stand those who protested and you and others should count them in too.



Best of luck to Egypt. This was expected even before Mubarak steps down, things would take years till they settle down in Egypt.


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## Armstrong

Hazzy997 said:


> Forget what you call conspiracy theories, but this seemed planned from a while ago and now MB supporters and members are being arrested and censored. This path is the wrong path. As for Gaza, Hamas was here long before the MB came to power in Egypt and they will still continue running Gaza. But look at the events leading up to and after the ousting. I don't agree with all that's happened. And Egypt won't change over night, and reform won't be drastic either. Either way, I'm also looking forward for a settled solution with calm for Egypt. Although this censorship of anything Islamic went a little too far. Millions don't stand those who protested and you and others should count them in too.



Wassup Baby Brother ?  

Hows life treating you ? Any word on how have things lately been in Palestine ?

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## Frogman

qamar1990 said:


> well if this is what the people of egypt want then so be it, but if this is something they dont want we will see the results in upcoming days.
> i know it seems like a lot of people but how many do you think are gathered here? 41 million? if not well thats how many voted for morsi.



Estimates are 17 million to 33 million (the largest demonstration in human history). Mohammed Mursi got 13 million votes when he was elected gaining 52% of the vote (with the support of revolutionaries and sympathisers whom he eventually alienated) out of 51 million registered voters (the second round was boycotted by many). So nearly half of registered voters turned up.


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## farag

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Actually, GCC is the biggest winner from ousting MB who have always posed a serious threat to them and other Arab monarchies. You seem to hate political Islam and extremism, however, I never heard you saying anything about extreme Mullahs in Tahran, and their terror groups, or is it too much to ask for? :/



UAE and KSA are the first winners. Syria and Iran are also winners. US is also a winner. Losers are hamas, Qatar, erdoganists, and MB.

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## muse

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Actually, GCC is the biggest winner from ousting MB who have always posed a serious threat to them and other Arab monarchies. You seem to hate political Islam and extremism, however, I never heard you saying anything about extreme Mullahs in Tahran, and their terror groups, or is it too much to ask for? :/



If you review the Civil conflict thread you will see I posted a article about Saudi Qatari divide. Wahabi cult have long been at war with Muslims, they realize they could not convert Muslims so they have taken to disguising themselves, complete with a variety of different names each designed to win them respect, bu the reality of the Wahabi is that they are a partner to those who seek to create enmity among Muslims - it is unfortunate that geo-political considerations of otside powers enable Wahabi designs though it can only be hoped that this will change soon. Jordan and Lebanon remain at great risk.

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## darkinsky

yaar why are we are discussing non pakistani siasat here? i mean pak media?



pkuser2k12 said:


> along with salafis ,takferes the west stooge Al Baradi was standing with Egyptian army chief .the same Al Baradi how was used against iran and iraq



excuse me but why bring MQM here? MQM performed in two areas, foreign overseas pakistanis and ports and shipping, for overseas pakistanis, the call rates got cheaper and got voting rights

for ports and shipping we got better performance since last time

so you cant blame MQM for the ills of ANP and PPP

and thats the exact reason why MQM gained even more seats while others lost


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## BDforever

so that guy loves to call him new Al-Qaeda and new terrorist ? he will love to blow up and destroy his own country ? just WOW ! !

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## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> Have you seen the official statements released by the American foreign secretary and Obama himself. None of those are in favour of what has happened and believe that Mohammed Mursi should have stayed. Now if he was a real threat to American or Israeli interests this would not have happened or at least when he was overthrown the Americans would have immediately switched sides as they did in 2011.



I didn't say I wanted him to be a threat to israel or America especially when Egyptian military officials still either way tske those foreign policy matters in their own hands regardless of who's president. And he can't prove his interests right off the bat. No one will be a threat to America. But they can slowly move their sources elsewhere and invest elsewhere which was what he was doing and going toward that path which takes a lot of time. Of course that doesn't stop people like from judging him based in his first year, way to be in a rush and being judgemental. You don't see that when it comes to other leaders.



Armstrong said:


> Wassup Baby Brother ?
> 
> Hows life treating you ? Any word on how have things lately been in Palestine ?



Life has been fun and great recently, although early off I got sick with a virus, I'm adapting to the weather here and having fun with family. As for Gaza, the gas here has been a major issue, there's a shortage. Some several little issues occurred but its mostly safe here and some people are well of, most aren't though. But, people in Gaza are sort of upset at the events in Egypt, although the pro fatah activists here are happy. They want to know how these changes will affect the political spectrum and relations with Egypt. Especially the border crossing and economic cooperation. Too early to tell.

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## Syrian Lion

BDforever said:


> so that guy loves to call him new Al-Qaeda and new terrorist ? he will love to blow up and destroy his own country ? just WOW ! !



not just him... probably all the MB love to destroy their country..

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## BLACKEAGLE

Syrian Lion said:


> man you are obsessed with Iran... Iran is your nightmare



Not really, but it's well known that Iranians & Co who happen to be a minority in Muslim world manage to use the word "Wahabi" allot to call Muslims because they are too cowards and sad creatures to use the right names. As for my friend @muse, he gets to explain his abstinence from criticizing Mullah terrorism and oppression, while being obsessed with Islam followers. Yes, muse, we are waiting for your precious response 



muse said:


> If you review the Civil conflict thread you will see I posted a article about Saudi Qatari divide. Wahabi cult have long been at war with Muslims, they realize they could not convert Muslims so they have taken to disguising themselves, complete with a variety of different names each designed to win them respect, bu the reality of the Wahabi is that they are a partner to those who seek to create enmity among Muslims - it is unfortunate that geo-political considerations of otside powers enable Wahabi designs though it can only be hoped that this will change soon. Jordan and Lebanon remain at great risk.



At war with Muslims? And converting Muslims? Are you for Really really for real?

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## Syrian Lion

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Not really, but it's well known that Iranians & Co who happen to be a minority in Muslim world manage to use the word "Wahabi" allot to call Muslims because they are too cowards and sad creatures to use the right names. As for my friend @muse, he gets to explain his abstinence from criticizing Mullah terrorism and oppression, while being obsessed with Islam followers. Yes, muse, we are waiting for your precious response



this is not about Iran, therefore you are obsessed with Iran.. enough with your obsession with Iran... man every post you make the word IRAN is mentioned...... stop insulting Iran and the people of Iran
@BLACKEAGLE stop defending terrorism and making justification for terrorism...

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## Frogman

> I didn't say I wanted him to be a threat to israel or America especially when Egyptian military officials still either way tske those foreign policy matters in their own hands regardless of who's president. And he can't prove his interests right off the bat. No one will be a threat to America. But they can slowly move their sources elsewhere and invest elsewhere which was what he was doing and going toward that path which takes a lot of time. Of course that doesn't stop people like from judging him based in his first year, way to be in a rush and being judgemental. You don't see that when it comes to other leaders.



Egypt in the current state need not be aggressive to any nation nor should it be. The Egyptian military still knows who the enemy is (if you need me I can show you mock Merkavas that are trained on by anti tank units).

No one asked to completely change the relationship nor did they have the intention to do so. You may want to refer to some of my and other Egyptian members posts as to why Morsi was impeached and its not just economic factors Egypt has gone through far worse.

Peace.

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## Falcon29

farag said:


> UAE and KSA are the first winners. Syria and Iran are also winners. US is also a winner. Losers are hamas, Qatar, erdoganists, and MB.



Hamas was here long before the MB ever took power in Egypt. What are you talking about? They've been through much worse situations than this.


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## BLACKEAGLE

farag said:


> UAE and KSA are the first winners. Syria and Iran are also winners. US is also a winner. Losers are hamas, Qatar, erdoganists, and MB.



Syria and Iran?  No, they are not. MB tried to have relations with Iran, but the timing and local as well as regional developments were constantly hindering it.

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## iranigirl2

@Syrian Lion can you also translate the second video?

in fact can you translate more videos from Pro-Morsi madness?


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## Gandhi G in da house

muse said:


> Remember we warned that Egypt was so destabilized by the fire the Wahabi had started that it might erupt in civil war, and one week later, --- well violence is the only language the Wahabi understands, I hope the Egyptian Army will clean Egyptian society of Wahabis and their sympathizers - The Wahabi have long asserted that all Muslims must submit to them, lets see if the Brave Egyptian Nation and army can teach them a lesson history will recall long in coming And hopefully more Muslims will realize who their enemy is.



People like the ones in the first video should be hunted and butchered. No matter in which part of the world. These are the kind of a$$holes who have made it difficult to even visit a market place without any fear.

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## farag

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Syria and Iran?  No, they are not. MB tried to have relations with Iran, but the timing and local as well as regional developments were constantly hindering it.



Bro Iran tried to have relation with morsi. Morsi used iran to blackmail US and KSA and UAE. It took Iran a while to understand that.

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## qamar1990

Frogman said:


> Estimates are 17 million to 33 million (the largest demonstration in human history). Mohammed Mursi got 13 million votes when he was elected gaining 52% of the vote (with the support of revolutionaries and sympathisers whom he eventually alienated) out of 51 million registered voters (the second round was boycotted by many). So nearly half of registered voters turned up.




17 million ? are you sure?

how is eygpt even functioning? damn well i guess the people have spoken in that case, imagine how many were too lazy to go out to protest



Frogman said:


> Egypt in the current state need not be aggressive to any nation nor should it be. The Egyptian military still knows who the enemy is (if you need me I can show you mock Merkavas that are trained on by anti tank units).
> 
> No one asked to completely change the relationship nor did they have the intention to do so. You may want to refer to some of my and other Egyptian members posts as to why Morsi was impeached and its not just economic factors Egypt has gone through far worse.
> 
> Peace.





i sertainly like to see those merkavas or what ever they called, how did eygpt even get them?


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## iranigirl2

farag said:


> Bro Iran tried to have relation with morsi. Morsi used iran to blackmail US and KSA and UAE. It took Iran a while to understand that.



So far all official statements from Iran are Pro-morsi. I genuinely think Morsi wanted to warm up to Iran, but regional political atmosphere didn't let that happen aka Syria.

but Syria is really happy, I'm sure Assad is celebrating right now!


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## BLACKEAGLE

farag said:


> Bro Iran tried to have relation with morsi. Morsi used iran to blackmail US and KSA and UAE. It took Iran a while to understand that.



Morsi and MB is the best thing Iran can get, it can't be a winner. Anyway, what's your point of view regarding Syrian uprising? You're a Nasiri, so my guess is that you are pro regime.

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## Syrian Lion

iranigirl2 said:


> @Syrian Lion can you also translate the second video?
> 
> in fact can you translate more videos from Pro-Morsi madness?



The MB person in the video said : We are here to support Morsi, and we have a clear a message to the secularists and liberals, if Morsi is toppled, and it wont, there will be blood, there will booby trapped cars, and remote control explosives...

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## farag

Hazzy997 said:


> Hamas was here long before the MB ever took power in Egypt. What are you talking about? They've been through much worse situations than this.



The flow of money was coming from Iran in the much worse situation. Now hamas is left with erdogan. You already know it. I like palestinians no matter what even though I hate MB but you gotta accept the fact.

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## Armstrong

Hello @iranigirl2 !  

Whats up @Chinese-Dragon ?  

How you doing @Jihad_ ?  

So @Frogman - Did you go to the protests ?

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## farag

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Morsi and MB is the best thing Iran can get, it can't be a winner. Anyway, what's your point of view regarding Syrian uprising? You're a Nasiri, so my guess is that you are pro regime.



Naturally Iran and Egypt are not natural friends but still friends. Iran can get the best from Egyptian nationalists and socialists.


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## iranigirl2

farag said:


> Naturally Iran and Egypt are not natural friends but still friends. Iran can get the best from Egyptian nationalists and socialists.



Anwar Sadat and Shah were best friends!


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## BDforever

Syrian Lion said:


> not just him... probably all the MB love to destroy their country..



well thats totally opposite to what Islam says. Islam says loving own country and country people (Patriotism) is part of Iman. so what kind of muslim they are ? or they have their own modified version which can fit in their interest ?

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## Kompromat

Syrian Lion said:


> Double standard much...plus AKP is MB...



Double standards as to what? ...Condemning a military coup or kicking out a democratically elected govt?

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## iranigirl2

BDforever said:


> well thats totally opposite to what Islam says. Islam says loving own country and country people (Patriotism) is part of Iman. so what kind of muslim they are ? or they have their own modified version which can fit in their interest ?



No, they don't believe in nationalism! and people of different faith including your own countrymen are kufir non-believers.

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## BLACKEAGLE

farag said:


> Naturally Iran and Egypt are not natural friends but still friends. Iran can get the best from Egyptian nationalists and socialists.



Bro, my question is that are you pro Syria regime? 

I know that Socialists are pro-Syrian regime and yet pro-Iran, they support everything that is against the West.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Armstrong said:


> Hello @iranigirl2 !
> 
> Whats up @Chinese-Dragon ?
> 
> How you doing @Jihad_ ?
> 
> So @Frogman - Did you go to the protests ?



I still can't figure out what is going on with Morsi. 

It seems they kicked him out because he was a failure? That seems fair enough.

But I can't see what the tipping point was.

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## Hussein

MB is much more complex than just a man. there are many "ideas" for this broad movment.
Some people speaking from MB doesn't mean it is Morsi thoughts.

I could read for exemple (i mean another exemple) that in Hamas some wanted Iran 's help
and some didn't want
well it is the same for MB: before Syria, some accepted some "relations" (limited) some not

in Europe there is someone making ad about MB, a muslim philosopher , who worked for PressTV too
so it shows with some of them some relations were possible
but as for Hamas, it is not really easy to keep Iran accepted 

hatred towards shias... but it is even worst for salafis 
these guys hate everything not like them. the woman at the end of first video is probably from them

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## Frogman

> 13 million ? are you sure?


 You're welcome to check for yourself.

Tamarod a grass roots petition calling for presidential elections gained 22 million signatures.


> how is eygpt even functioning? damn well i guess the people have spoken in that case, imagine how many were too lazy to go out to protest



It hasn't been. Egypt has been in a comatose state for a year requiring saline solutions and a machine to keep its heart from failing. Those who were unable to protest were told to hang Egyptian flags from their balcony's. 



> i sertainly like to see those merkavas or what ever they called, how did eygpt even get them?


 You're going to have to wait a while a picture of a mock Merkava and a lesson on the Merkava-III are in the depths of the Egyptian armed forces photos and videos thread of Irandefense forum. If you can take my word for it and I have no reason to be dishonest that would save me the trouble if not then may god (If he/she/it exists) help me.

Its plastic mock probably made in Egypt used to teach and familiarize Egyptian anti-tank units with the Merkavas feature e.g On the front "Yas30b Alikhtirak" or hard to penetrate is written on it using chalk.

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## BDforever

iranigirl2 said:


> No, they don't believe in nationalism! and people of different faith including your own countrymen are kufir non-believers.



you mean faith in religion ?


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## Syrian Lion

BDforever said:


> well thats totally opposite to what Islam says. Islam says loving own country and country people (Patriotism) is part of Iman. so what kind of muslim they are ? or they have their own modified version which can fit in their interest ?


they have their own version, they make their own fatwas, and statement making it halal to kill your brother...

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## farag

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Bro, my question is that are you pro Syria regime?
> 
> I know that Socialists are pro-Syrian regime and yet pro-Iran, they support everything that is against the West.



I know that Assad is not perfect but at least he can keep Syria in a better shape and united. I don't see Assad as an alawite.Syrian opposition is worse than Assad in my opinion. I know you disagree

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## Syrian Lion

Aeronaut said:


> Double standards as to what? ...Condemning a military coup or kicking out a democratically elected govt?



they support overthrowing of other government and support terrorism just to get rid of governments... thus it is called double standard...

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## Syrian Lion

farag said:


> I know that Assad is not perfect but at least he can keep Syria in a better shape and united. I don't see Assad as an alawite.Syrian opposition is worse than Assad in my opinion. I know you disagree



no one is pro Alasad... however every Syrian is PRO SYRIA... I said this million times, Alasad is FOR NOW is the best leader, when peace restores there will be elections... Alasad many times himself proposed UN monitored elections.. however the west and their puppet refused, because they know Alasad has popular support among Syrians..

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## BDforever

Syrian Lion said:


> they have their own version, they make their own fatwas, and statement making it halal to kill your brother...



I am so glad that we are not in that region, in my country there is no Shia-Sunni fight, even there are some places where Shia Mosques and Shunni Mosques just opposite side of the roads, all minds in their own businesses.

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## iranigirl2

BDforever said:


> you mean faith in religion ?



Taliban sends suicide bombers to schools to blow up little girls ! What makes you think these people are "Muslims"?

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## Frogman

Armstrong said:


> Hello @iranigirl2 !
> 
> Whats up @Chinese-Dragon ?
> 
> How you doing @Jihad_ ?
> 
> So @Frogman - Did you go to the protests ?



Me and my mother went to shout at the Egyptian ambassador in London 

It was also the hottest day in the UK this year (so far). It was funny seeing police officers overheating and Egyptian kids spreading Pepsi and chocolate among their ranks. It was more like a party or wedding than a angry protest as was the case in Egypt.

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## Silverblaze

muse said:


> Remember we warned that Egypt was so destabilized by the fire the Wahabi had started that it might erupt in civil war, and one week later, --- well violence is the only language the Wahabi understands, I hope the Egyptian Army will clean Egyptian society of Wahabis and their sympathizers - The Wahabi have long asserted that all Muslims must submit to them, lets see if the Brave Egyptian Nation and army can teach them a lesson history will recall long in coming And hopefully more Muslims will realize who their enemy is.



Disagree with you. 

KSA has welcomed it. If you are a liberal, how can you support an undemocratic move?

No one can agree with the Brotherhood, but throwing their govt is just wrong. It would bring the gun back again. 

Sad day for democracy in Egypt.


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## BDforever

iranigirl2 said:


> Taliban sends suicide bombers to schools to blow up little girls ! What makes you think these people are "Muslims"?



when did i call them muslim ? they are terrorist.

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## BLACKEAGLE

farag said:


> I know that Assad is not perfect but at least he can keep Syria in a better shape and united. I don't see Assad as an alawite.Syrian opposition is worse than Assad in my opinion. I know you disagree









Sorry, I can figure out the right and wrong from Syrian uprising perspective. Bashar is a scum monster, the worst leader that has ever ruled an Arab country. Anyway, that's your opinion.

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## Armstrong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I still can't figure out what is going on with Morsi.
> 
> It seems they kicked him out because he was a failure? That seems fair enough.
> 
> But I can't see what the tipping point was.



Me neither !  

At any rate they - the Egyptians - seem to be doing what we - Pakistanis - did so many times over our 65 year history; something that even our Chief of Army Staff alluded to when he talked about the game of hide & seek played in Pakistan between Military Takeovers & Democracy - Didn't work out too well for us ! The Institutions never got built, the democratic process never had the time to mature in terms of creating grass-root level awareness & most certainly the inherent inflexibility of Military Regimes never helped but instead ended up politicizing our Army (which we've paid with dearly !). 

At any rate - I wouldn't presume to tell a sovereign country what they should or should not do; its their call - their risks & their rewards !

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## Kompromat

Syrian Lion said:


> they support overthrowing of other government and support terrorism just to get rid of governments... thus it is called double standard...



One man's government is another man's tyranny. Asad is not the govt, he is a tyrant.

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## Hussein

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Sorry, I can figure out the right and wrong from Syrian uprising perspective. Bashar is a scum monster, *the worst leader* that has ever ruled an Arab country. Anyway, that's your opinion.


i vote Saddam without any hesitation as the worst leader ever
ah i forgot you love this monster

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## BATMAN

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Actually, GCC is the biggest winner from ousting MB who have always posed a serious threat to them and other Arab monarchies. You seem to hate political Islam and extremism, however, I never heard you saying anything about extreme Mullahs in Tahran, and their terror groups, or is it too much to ask for? :/



He is a fanatic, every one has noticed it... have you ever seen any sensible thing coming out of his mouth other than hate?

He has used word wahabi twice in his every sentence... clearly he is angry and is blabbering instead of making any sense.

Perhaps, you will feel, he's sick, but still he has title of TT... because unfortunately, in Pakistan Iran dictates the rules upon shias.

Iran runs a very organized hate culture & schools in Pakistan, you can't reverse the damage of weekly/daily hate sessions, continued for years.

Have you noticed, his hate towards Pakistan and its army.... and any one who challenge him is wahabi!

Every time he comes... he bad mouth and blame his virtual wahabis.... who are creating problems in whole world, at least in his words.

Today is the morning day for him, because.... after too many success of toppling stable Islamic regimes.... he got a reverse blow... i expect him to cry for long time.

Now is time to sit back and

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## BDforever

Armstrong said:


> Me neither !
> 
> At any rate they - the Egyptians - seem to be doing what we - Pakistanis - did so many times over our 65 year history; something that even our Chief of Army Staff alluded to when he talked about the game of hide & seek played in Pakistan between Military Takeovers & Democracy - Didn't work out too well for us ! The Institutions never got built, the democratic process never had the time to mature in terms of creating grass-root level awareness & most certainly the inherent inflexibility of Military Regimes never helped but instead ended up politicizing our Army (which we've paid with dearly !).
> 
> At any rate - I wouldn't presume to tell a sovereign country what they should or should not do; its their call - their risks & their rewards !
> 
> 
> 
> Me neither !
> 
> At any rate they - the Egyptians - seem to be doing what we - Pakistanis - did so many times over our 65 year history; something that even our Chief of Army Staff alluded to when he talked about the game of hide & seek played in Pakistan between Military Takeovers & Democracy - Didn't work out too well for us ! The Institutions never got built, the democratic process never had the time to mature in terms of creating grass-root level awareness & most certainly the inherent inflexibility of Military Regimes never helped but instead ended up politicizing our Army (which we've paid with dearly !).
> 
> At any rate - I wouldn't presume to tell a sovereign country what they should or should not do; its their call - their risks & their rewards !



missing us bro ?

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## Syrian Lion

Aeronaut said:


> One man's government is another man's tyranny. Asad is not govt, he is a tyrant.


say whatever, when you hold the Syrian passport you can have a say who becomes the leader of Syria. as for Egypt, Egyptians wanted to get rid of Morsi, and in Syria, Syrians want to keep Alasad for now...

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## Dillinger

Armstrong said:


> Me neither !
> 
> At any rate they - the Egyptians - seem to be doing what we - Pakistanis - did so many times over our 65 year history; something that even our Chief of Army Staff alluded to when he talked about the game of hide & seek played in Pakistan between Military Takeovers & Democracy - Didn't work out too well for us ! The Institutions never got built, the democratic process never had the time to mature in terms of creating grass-root level awareness & most certainly the inherent inflexibility of Military Regimes never helped but instead ended up politicizing our Army (which we've paid with dearly !).
> 
> At any rate - I wouldn't presume to tell a sovereign country what they should or should not do; its their call - their risks & their rewards !
> 
> 
> 
> Me neither !
> 
> At any rate they - the Egyptians - seem to be doing what we - Pakistanis - did so many times over our 65 year history; something that even our Chief of Army Staff alluded to when he talked about the game of hide & seek played in Pakistan between Military Takeovers & Democracy - Didn't work out too well for us ! The Institutions never got built, the democratic process never had the time to mature in terms of creating grass-root level awareness & most certainly the inherent inflexibility of Military Regimes never helped but instead ended up politicizing our Army (which we've paid with dearly !).
> 
> At any rate - I wouldn't presume to tell a sovereign country what they should or should not do; its their call - their risks & their rewards !



Teach them how to cook sumptuous nihari and everything shall turn out for the better from there onward.  Butt sahib tum fikar bohot karte ho, chaddo ye sab.

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## Kompromat

Syrian Lion said:


> say whatever, when you hold the Syrian passport you can decide who becomes the leader of Syria. as for Egypt, Egyptians wanted to get rid of Morsi, and in Syria, Syrians want to keep Alasad for now...



People decided and were butchered, he's face the music soon. Tyranny ends in disaster.

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## Syrian Lion

Aeronaut said:


> *People *decided and were butchered, he's face the music soon. Tyranny ends in disaster.



I said only Syrians and Syrians only decide...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/234220-syria-questions-can-not-answered.html

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## iranigirl2

Syrian Lion said:


> Double standard much...plus AKP is MB...



The only difference between AKP and MB is that, AKP has been extremely smart . AKP slowly took over the police force and the Turkish Army. 

Do you know how many Turkish military officers are in prison right now for attempted coup??


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/21/us-turkey-military-trial-verdict-idUSBRE88K0Y220120921

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/22/turkish-court-sentences-generals-coup-plot

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/05/14/one-in-five-turkish-generals-now-in-prison/

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## Frogman

Scared, nothing more.

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## Syrian Lion

iranigirl2 said:


> The only difference between AKP and MB is that, AKP has been extremely smart . AKP slowly took over the police force and the Turkish Army.
> 
> Do you know how many Turkish military officers are in prison for attempted coup??



there are many military officers in prison, not just them, also journalists...

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## BDforever

Dillinger said:


> Teach them how to cook sumptuous nihari and everything shall turn out for the better from there onward.  Butt sahib *tum fikar bohot karte ho, chaddo ye sab*.


 @Armstrong is very Patriot person, thats why he thinks so much about his country

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## darkinsky

there is a deep lesson for pakistan

in order to run a successful democracy you need to perform, if government doesnt perform democracy will be weakened, so the politicians will be themselves responsible if democracy is taken over

its just because of their lack of performance which will again sideline democracy

you are not being democratic if you arnt able to solve the issues of ur country, simple as that, dictators have always performed better so an alternate is waiting for the people around the corner

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## Syrian Lion

> In the end, a simple lesson should be derived from the fall of Mursi. In a rapidly changing 21st century world, political parties and movements are doomed to fail if all they have to offer is rigid religious dogma and accusations of treason every time society wants to exercise its right of expression, and say no.





Read more: Epic failure | Opinion , Editorial | THE DAILY STAR 
(The Daily Star :: Lebanon News :: Breaking News, Lebanon News, Middle East News & World News | THE DAILY STAR)


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## iranigirl2

Syrian Lion said:


> there are many military officers in prison, not just them, also journalists...



One in Five Turkish Generals Now in Prison

One in Five Turkish Generals Now in Prison « Commentary Magazine

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## BATMAN

BDforever said:


> @Armstrong is very Patriot person, thats why he thinks so much about his country



I expect haters to be on fire at least for while... Armstrong and patriots like him  will keep dragging Pak army in every discussion.

Afterall, this is the whole object of this show.

They shall also not assume there propaganda against Pak army will be go unchecked.

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## Hussein

BATMAN said:


> He is a fanatic, every one has noticed it... have you ever seen any sensible thing coming out of his mouth other than hate?
> 
> Iran runs a very organized hate culture & schools in Pakistan, you can't reverse the damage of weekly/daily hate sessions, continued for years.



you blame other for hatred when yourself words are hatred towards shias
i don't get your point

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## Chinese-Dragon

Armstrong said:


> Me neither !
> 
> At any rate they - the Egyptians - seem to be doing what we - Pakistanis - did so many times over our 65 year history; something that even our Chief of Army Staff alluded to when he talked about the game of hide & seek played in Pakistan between Military Takeovers & Democracy - Didn't work out too well for us ! The Institutions never got built, the democratic process never had the time to mature in terms of creating grass-root level awareness & most certainly the inherent inflexibility of Military Regimes never helped but instead ended up politicizing our Army (which we've paid with dearly !).
> 
> At any rate - I wouldn't presume to tell a sovereign country what they should or should not do; its their call - their risks & their rewards !



I remember actually we kicked out the last leader of Hong Kong, an annoying guy called Tung Chee Hwa.

After his many failures, Hu Jintao flew over to scold him in public, and then Tung Chee Hwa ended up resigning.

Though of course, nowhere near as dramatic as the Egyptian one. I don't think it was even a big story in the international news at the time.

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## BLACKEAGLE

BATMAN said:


> He is a fanatic, every one has noticed it... have you ever seen any sensible thing coming out of his mouth other than hate?
> 
> He has used word wahabi twice in his every sentence... clearly he is angry and is blabbering instead of making any sense.
> 
> Perhaps, you will feel, he's sick, but still he has title of TT... because unfortunately, in Pakistan Iran dictates the rules upon shias.
> 
> Iran runs a very organized hate culture & schools in Pakistan, you can't reverse the damage of weekly/daily hate sessions, continued for years.
> 
> Have you noticed, his hate towards Pakistan and its army.... and any one who challenge him is wahabi!
> 
> Every time he comes... he bad mouth and blame his virtual wahabis.... who are creating problems in whole world, at least in his words.
> 
> Today is the morning day for him, because.... after too many success of toppling stable Islamic regimes.... he got a reverse blow... i expect him to cry for long time.
> 
> Now is time to sit back and



I know that he is angry and frustrated. it's obvious. That's what the KSA is for, to keep them in check wherever they exist. Am I right @Yzd Khalifa 

Here is Saudi Arabia, the cradle of Arabs and Islam, it's glorious people were chosen by Allah to spread Islam all over the place. Damned those who hate them and blessed those who love them. 

Keep us proud

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## Pandora

If a government becomes unpopular then the best way is to go through electoral process otherwise it will always lead to disaster. In short americans finally got what they wanted, another civil war.


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## iranigirl2

Ah Ah halam be ham khord ^

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## Doritos11

Reality differs from opinions ^^

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

MB is the most deep-seated, the oldest and most well organized party of Egypt..They have their own cause accordince with soul and nature of Egypt..They are real Egyptians

*No West, neither iran nor Suudis could buy MB by their money...This is why west, israel, iran, KSA and his allies all together acclaim toppling Mursi by military coup of juntas..All other opponents could be easly bought with money by west, iran and KSA like the goods on the bench..
*
Now, all each these countries will pour millions of dollar into Egyptian politic bazaar to set their own puppets and proxies..KSA and west laready have some proxies..now it is the turn of iran.

im very anxious about Egypt could be turn into battlfield of regional and global powers like Pakistan..
that ominous coup will open the door of many new destructive problems


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## Syrian Lion

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> MB is the most deep-seated, the oldest and most well organized party of Egypt..They have their own cause accordince with soul and nature of Egypt..They are real Egyptians
> 
> *No West, neither iran nor Suudis could buy MB by their money...This is why west, israel, iran, KSA and his allies all together acclaim toppling Mursi by military coup of juntas..All other opponents could be easly bought with money by west, iran and KSA like the goods on the bench..
> *
> Now, all each these countries will pour millions of dollar into Egyptian politic bazaar to set their own puppets and proxies..KSA and west laready have some proxies..now it is the turn of iran.
> 
> im very anxious about Egypt could be turn into battlfield of regional and global powers like Pakistan..
> that ominous coup will open the door of many new destructive problems



morsi and his party was bought by Qatar... for about $8 Billion ...

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## BDforever

BATMAN said:


> I expect haters to be on fire at least for while... Armstrong and patriots like him  will keep dragging Pak army in every discussion.
> 
> Afterall, this is the whole object of this show.
> 
> They shall also not assume there propaganda against Pak army will be go unchecked.



Pakistan need rational people like him, not the people who always work on his nerve. My father used to tell me that Pak army is fool not because of 1971 war but because of 1965 war. Pak army chief said to attack indian part without protecting Lahore. His immediate subordinate told him it was not good to leave lahore unprotected and attack india which is another direction, the chief said that lahore is not disputed area so nothing to worry. when Pakistan attacked India, India said war is war and then attacked Lahore (i forget the story, remember little. I will ask my father again about it)

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## BLACKEAGLE

iranigirl2 said:


> No, they don't believe in nationalism! and people of different faith including *your own countrymen are kufir non-believers.*



Since when Bangalis are Kafir? BTW @BDforever is a Muslim, so don't confuse him with your ilk.


----------



## BATMAN

Aeronaut said:


> Double standards as to what? ...Condemning a military coup or kicking out a democratically elected govt?



Do not put so much trust in democracy.... armed forces is essential pillar of a state.

Army warned Mursi and opposition to settle down... it was one year of catastroph in Egypt... life and business had been paralyzed, now the same poor and uneducated class, which voted for Mursi cheered for his fall as they suffered the most.



BLACKEAGLE said:


> Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu on Thursday described as "unacceptable" the army's ousting of Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi, an intervention he labelled a "military coup".
> 
> "Only can you be removed from duty through elections, that is, the will of the people. It is unacceptable for a government, which has come to power through democratic elections, to be toppled through illicit means and even more, a military coup," Davutoglu told reporters.
> 
> Turkey says Mohamed Mursi's removal in Egypt an unacceptable 'coup' - World - DNA



Indian news....! what can you expect.

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## BDforever

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Since when Bangalis are Kafir? BTW @BDforever is a Muslim, so don't confuse him with your ilk.



its ok, she is talking about what arab thinks about us.


----------



## T-123456

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu on Thursday described as "unacceptable" the army's ousting of Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi, an intervention he labelled a "military coup".
> 
> "Only can you be removed from duty through elections, that is, the will of the people. It is unacceptable for a government, which has come to power through democratic elections, to be toppled through illicit means and even more, a military coup," Davutoglu told reporters.
> 
> Turkey says Mohamed Mursi's removal in Egypt an unacceptable 'coup' - World - DNA


They just feeling the heat.



iranigirl2 said:


> The only difference between AKP and MB is that, AKP has been extremely smart . AKP slowly took over the police force and the Turkish Army.
> 
> Do you know how many Turkish military officers are in prison right now for attempted coup??
> 
> 
> Turkish court sentences 322 military officers to jail | Reuters
> 
> Turkish court sentences ex-generals to 20 years for attempted coup | World news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> One in Five Turkish Generals Now in Prison « Commentary Magazine


Yes and because they have the armed force,there can never be a coup in Turkey.
They feel safe,lets see how long.

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## BLACKEAGLE

iranigirl2 said:


> Taliban sends suicide bombers to schools to blow up little girls ! What makes you think these people are "Muslims"?



You are the very last people on earth to decide who is Muslim and who is not. I don't want to see this again. And plz spare us from your Shia-Sunni crap.



BDforever said:


> its ok, she is talking about what arab thinks about us.



Arabs think that Bangalis are Kaffir? where? when? how? and why?

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## BDforever

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Arabs think that Bangalis are Kaffir? where? when? how? and why?



i talked to some arabs, few of them thinks that way.


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Syrian Lion said:


> morsi and his party was bought by Qatar... for about $8 Billion ...



if it is so then tell us, what things MB sacrified from Egypt for the sake of Qatar?..Turkey also had credited Egypt about 2 billion$...
it is not like the money that baby killer get from iran...dont mix right things with wrong ones...

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## muse

Silverblaze said:


> Disagree with you.
> 
> KSA has welcomed it. If you are a liberal, how can you support an undemocratic move?
> 
> No one can agree with the Brotherhood, but throwing their govt is just wrong. It would bring the gun back again.
> 
> Sad day for democracy in Egypt.



This kind of rigidity is - 22million Egyptians - ring ring 22 million


----------



## BDforever

BLACKEAGLE said:


> You are the very last people on earth to decide who is Muslim and who is not. I don't want to see this again. And plz spare us from your Shia-Sunni crap.



anyway whether she is shia or not, she has a valid point that true muslim does not blow up himself and kill innocent people.

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## saiyan0321

so they get ousted and the solution is blow up the people of that very country you are trying to save and protect and create fear,terrorism and death every where with suicide attacks. Rather then going down and rebuilding from square one and running again and winning and working towards a better egypt they make the decision of destroying that very country. 
It seems their thinking is no different then the TTP. For their own selfish interest if they have to destroy egypt they will.

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## Doritos11

MB sacrified economic independence to Qatar.

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## BLACKEAGLE

BDforever said:


> i talked to some arabs, few of them thinks that way.



Who are they?

Muslims don't call Muslims Kaffir, that's a very serious thing, however, there are groups who call themselves Muslims while they are not actually like Ahmadis and some others as they disbelieve in the basis of Islam. If everyone wants to get recognized as Muslims regardless of their beliefs and practices, then Islam will be messed up. However, Bangladesh is a Muslim state and it's people are Muslim just like other Muslims. Anyhow, this is of topic.

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## Syrian Lion

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> if it is so then tell us, what things MB sacrified from Egypt for the sake of Qatar?..Turkey also had credited Egypt about 2 billion$...
> it is not like the money that baby killer get from iran...dont mix right things with wrong ones...



mosri became puppet of Qatar.. Egypt economy became under the mercy of Qatar... heck even Qatar tried to rent the pyramids... 

and stay on topic... This is about terrorists from the MB threatening to destroy Egypt


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## T-123456

The christians make up what 1% of the Egyptian population?
Just kill the weak.
Muslim radicals are the worst of all.


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## Syrian Lion

T-123456 said:


> The christians make up what 1% of the Egyptian population?
> Just kill the weak.
> Muslim radicals are the worst of all.



10% at least


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## shuntmaster

Maybe somebody needs to make a line chart giving the latest power equations in the middle-east. Who is against whom and who is with whom.. There seems to be utter confusion.. Shia Vs. Sunni, Wahabi Vs. political Islam, Turkey is Pro-political Islam but together in bed with Wahabis in Syria, Iran Vs. GCC. Saudi Vs. Qatari. Its not clear who is with and against Israel. 
This map gives an idea, but is outdated and needs a little tweaking.


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## BDforever

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Who are they?
> 
> Muslims don't call Muslims Kaffir, that's a very serious thing, however, there are groups who call themselves Muslims while they are not actually like Ahmadis and some others as they disbelieve in the basis of Islam. If everyone wants to get recognized as Muslims regardless of their beliefs and practices, then Islam will be messed up. However, Bangladesh is a Muslim state and it's people are Muslim just like other Muslims. Anyhow, this is of topic.



1. some arab in general calls bangladeshi as kaffir because we separated us from Pakistan, anyway i do not bother about them.
2. Bangladesh is a secular state , we do not define bangladesh based on religion though we have muslim majority because we have other religious Patriot bangladeshi. 

## yea lets stop this off-topic issue

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## BLACKEAGLE

BDforever said:


> 1. some arab in general calls bangladeshi as kaffir because we separated us from Pakistan, anyway i do not bother about them.


Never heard about them. Actually, very few Arabs know this about Bangladesh. 


BDforever said:


> 2. Bangladesh is a secular state , we do not define bangladesh based on religion though we have muslim majority because we have other religious Patriot bangladeshi.
> 
> ## yea lets stop this off-topic issue


Best of luck.

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## shuttler

Erdo&#287;an almost experienced the same fate earlier

There is no democracy in the world. There is only democracy according to usa!

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## Yzd Khalifa

Al-Kofi videos  what do you know. 

Egypt security establishments as well as its armed forces are ultra professional to go after anyone left that can pose a threat, that's if and only if, that could be happen. 



Syrian Lion said:


> *Pro-Morsi Vow to Suicide Bomb Everyone Opposed to Them & to Set Christians on Fire​*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This footage is taken from a pro-Morsi demonstration in Egypt after the Egyptian military intervened on behalf of the millions of Egyptians who demanded an end to the rule of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. While addressing Abdul Fattah al-Sisi, the Egyptian commander-in-chief, those who support Morsi vow to become suicide bombers that will target secularists, Christians, Shiites, and all other opposition forces. A lady covered in black vowed to burn her Christian compatriots.
> 
> *I don't understand how this created a civil war between Shia and Sunnis?? it wasn't Shias who toppled Morsi, it wasn't Christians, the EGYPTIAN PEOPLE DID IT!
> *
> __________________________________________________ _______________________________
> 
> This is days before Morsi got toppled.. he threatened that MB has booby trapped cars and other type of explosives to use if Morsi is toppled..

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## Doritos11

omgogmogmogm!

look at his forehead!!!!!!
dajjal 1 eye !!!!!!!!! kill him

( salafi mode )


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## Yzd Khalifa

farag said:


> UAE and KSA are the first winners. Syria and Iran are also winners. US is also a winner. Losers are hamas, Qatar, erdoganists, and MB.



I don't think so Farag. I could understand why Qatar is a loser but remember that they Qatari's had their own Arab Spring, so I guess we can put Qatar in par with the GCC. The US ,on the other hand, as well as Iran, invested billions of dollars on the MB which is overthrown now, it was like a pie in the sky for them! 

Anyway, Egypt is our friend and ally, what makes them happy makes us happy. The interim president lived here for sometime so he's our friend too. Don't worry, the first foreign representative our new friend is going to expel will be the Iranian.

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## shuntmaster

Aeronaut said:


> One man's government is another man's tyranny. Asad is not govt, he is a tyrant.



Asad was democratically elected. FSA don't want elections.


----------



## Stardust

Egypt is not ready for democracy as other middle east countries but really do they need democracy?I don't think so.They get used to militarist goverments,kings and dictators...democracy is really too much for them.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

I dont think Morsi was strong enough to lead Egypt; therefore his ouster was appropriate



shuttler said:


> Erdo&#287;an almost experienced the same fate earlier
> 
> There is no democracy in the world. There is only democracy according to usa!






cant argue with that!

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## Solomon2

Th&#601;or&#601;tic Muslim;4487067 said:


> BBS says the turnout was 33% with 64% approving.


21%, then. 



> Who's fault was it that the constitution was approved when apparently the "Majority" doesnt like it? Can't be Morsi's fault his people got to the ballot while the opposition decided to go on a field trip to Alexandria or Sheikh al Shams.


I'll leave it to the Egyptians here to answer this one.


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## Devil Soul

*TAHREER SQUARE WOMEN SUFFER ABUSE AT THE HANDS OF PROTESTERS*


----------



## qamar1990

muse said:


> Remember we warned that Egypt was so destabilized by the fire the Wahabi had started that it might erupt in civil war, and one week later, --- well violence is the only language the Wahabi understands, I hope the Egyptian Army will clean Egyptian society of Wahabis and their sympathizers - The Wahabi have long asserted that all Muslims must submit to them, lets see if the Brave Egyptian Nation and army can teach them a lesson history will recall long in coming And hopefully more Muslims will realize who their enemy is.




take it easy on the bullsh it. the wahabis are people too. 
and most muslims are becoming wahabis they are not extremists its jus some people.


----------



## farag

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I don't think so Farag. I could understand why Qatar is a loser but remember that they Qatari's had their own Arab Spring, so I guess we can put Qatar in par with the GCC. The US ,on the other hand, as well as Iran, invested billions of dollars on the MB which is overthrown now, it was like a pie in the sky for them!
> 
> Anyway, Egypt is our friend and ally, what makes them happy makes us happy. The interim president lived here for sometime so he's our friend too. Don't worry, the first foreign representative our new friend is going to expel will be the Iranian.



There is no Iranian ambassador to expel from Egypt.
It is Egypt's benefit to keep KSA and Iran at the same time.

By the way, Iran has not invested a dime in Egypt. Why did you see otherwise?


----------



## Yzd Khalifa

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Morsi and MB is the best thing Iran can get, it can't be a winner. Anyway, what's your point of view regarding Syrian uprising? You're a Nasiri, so my guess is that you are pro regime.



What do you expect some liberals to befriend freaks like Najad  



iranigirl2 said:


> So far all official statements from Iran are Pro-morsi. *I genuinely think Morsi wanted to warm up to Iran, but regional political atmosphere didn't let that happen aka Syria.*
> 
> but Syria is really happy, I'm sure Assad is celebrating right now!



The MB wanted money, thankfully, Iran gave them the money. 



Syrian Lion said:


> man you are obsessed with Iran... Iran is your nightmare



Iran invested a big chunk of money on the MB, his response is quite justifiable.

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## farag

I don't see any Qatari spring either. It was just a transition.

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## Yzd Khalifa

farag said:


> There is no Iranian ambassador to expel from Egypt.
> It is Egypt's benefit to keep KSA and Iran at the same time.



 I know he's just a representative right? 

Egypt is our babe man!



farag said:


> The flow of money was coming from Iran in the much worse situation. Now hamas is left with erdogan. You already know it. I like palestinians no matter what even though I hate MB but you gotta accept the fact.



I don't blame you for developing anti-MB sentiments.

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## Devil Soul

The only losers here are the law abiding citizens who just wanna live their life peacefully...


----------



## muse

qamar1990 said:


> take it easy on the bullsh it. the wahabis are people too.
> and most muslims are becoming wahabis they are not extremists its jus some people.[/QUOTE
> 
> You may be but the people of Egypt say otherwise - so on the BS meter, I defer to you


----------



## Yzd Khalifa

farag said:


> I don't see any Qatari spring either. It was just a transition.



Major reforms were carried out.

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## qamar1990

muse said:


> qamar1990 said:
> 
> 
> 
> take it easy on the bullsh it. the wahabis are people too.
> and most muslims are becoming wahabis they are not extremists its jus some people.[/QUOTE
> 
> You may be but the people of Egypt say otherwise - so on the BS meter, I defer to you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the people of eygpt are a majority wahabi.
Click to expand...


----------



## farag

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I know he's just a representative right?
> 
> Egypt is our babe man!
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame you for developing anti-MB sentiments.



Sudan is an example of how to have good relations with GCC and Iran at the same time.


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

muse said:


> qamar1990 said:
> 
> 
> 
> take it easy on the bullsh it. the wahabis are people too.
> and most muslims are becoming wahabis they are not extremists its jus some people.[/QUOTE
> 
> You may be but the people of Egypt say otherwise - so on the BS meter, I defer to you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of BS, I'm not sure if you're confusing MB with Saudi regime. Again, MB hate GCC regimes guts except for Qatar. And come here, how dare you talk in the name of Egyptians? Egyptian uprising is to great to get soiled with this BS.
Click to expand...


----------



## pkuser2k12

darkinsky said:


> yaar why are we are discussing non pakistani siasat here? i mean pak media?
> 
> 
> 
> excuse me but why bring MQM here? MQM performed in two areas, foreign overseas pakistanis and ports and shipping, for overseas pakistanis, the call rates got cheaper and got voting rights
> 
> for ports and shipping we got better performance since last time
> 
> so you cant blame MQM for the ills of ANP and PPP
> 
> and thats the exact reason why MQM gained even more seats while others lost



everyone knows how they got their mandate


----------



## Silverblaze

muse said:


> This kind of rigidity is - 22million Egyptians - ring ring 22 million



Mr. muse you cannot get 'amused' by protests. 

Their economic troubles were genuine as Morsi appointed incompetents in his ranks. 

But rolling back democracy is not right. 

When the hardliner islamic groups show up with larger crowds as was the case with Tunisia, what would you do? 

The Egyptian army is here to be blamed, why did they give an ultimatum, they could have led reconciliation. 

Egypt is going no where.



farag said:


> Sudan is an example of how to have good relations with GCC and Iran at the same time.



Isn't Oman a better example?


----------



## farag

Silverblaze said:


> Mr. muse you cannot get 'amused' by protests.
> 
> Their economic troubles were genuine as Morsi appointed incompetents in his ranks.
> 
> But rolling back democracy is not right.
> 
> When the hardliner islamic groups show up with larger crowds as was the case with Tunisia, what would you do?
> 
> The Egyptian army is here to be blamed, why did they give an ultimatum, they could have led reconciliation.
> 
> Egypt is going no where.
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't Oman a better example?



Or Pakistan.


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## darkinsky

pkuser2k12 said:


> everyone knows how they got their mandate



please keep these rants to yourself you are now avoiding reply your own post

forget it

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## Silverblaze

farag said:


> Or Pakistan.



You are joking right?


----------



## Cheetah786

qamar1990 said:


> muse said:
> 
> 
> 
> the people of eygpt are a majority Wahhabi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why MB won the election?
Click to expand...

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## Frogman

> The Egyptian army is here to be blamed, why did they give an ultimatum, they could have led reconciliation.


 The army had set up reconciliation talks between the brotherhood and the opposition for the past 6 months. The presidency refused to attend and then the opposition followed suit after the insult. The military also gave a week for reconciliation before the 30th of June, the presidency refused and Mursi came out with a 3 hour speech which was frankly insulting to the nation and the institution itself. After that the military gave 48 hours for reconciliation and the presidency didn't act. They released another speech which was insulting and threatened violence. The MB and the presidency had chances they didn't act.

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## Cheetah786

farag said:


> There is no Iranian ambassador to expel from Egypt.
> It is Egypt's benefit to keep KSA and Iran at the same time.
> 
> By the way, Iran has not invested a dime in Egypt. Why did you see otherwise?



By Brian M Downing

The uprisings of the Arab Spring have been supported in the West and many other countries as well. The tide is seen as welcome, inevitable, and essential to placing the region on a proper political and economic track.

That view, however, is not shared in Saudi Arabia. The view from Riyadh is that the uprisings are a threat to the principle of royal authority, incompatible with a well-ordered society, and a danger to Saudi national security, especially in regard to its opposition to Shiism and Iran.

The House of Saud sees the tide of democracy as neither good nor inevitable nor irreversible. Riyadh will use its influence and wealth to roll back democracy. Failure to do so, in Riyadhs view, will weaken its rule and strengthen Shia power in the Gulf and beyond. Halting democracy, then, is a moral and strategic imperative. The campaign is likely already underway.

The Saudis will find many allies inside the frail new democracies. Figures of the old regimes are still ensconced in key parts of the state and economy.

The new regimes face the painstaking task of removing them from these commanding positions, but what the old regimes accomplished through fiat and purges, the new ones must try to do within legal restraints. This, of course, gives old regime judges considerable influence in the transition as recent events in Egypt have shown.

Many generals too were key parts of the old regimes. They wield tremendous power and enjoy the respect of large parts of the public. They may be especially attuned to Saudi overtures of restored power and future greatness.

Riyadh can win support from religious groups as well. Many clerics see democracy as part of the baleful process of modernization and secularization that breaks down sacred norms and spreads western outlooks.

Rural-dwellers are more pious than city-dwellers and they do not look favorably on the openness and turbulence set loose in recent months. The past of them retains a patina of tradition and propriety compared to the uncertainty of the future.

The militantly anti-western sects known as Salafists represent Saudi Arabias most passionate potential allies. They have definite affinities with the Wahhabi sect of Saudi Arabia; their clerics and adherents attend Saudi schools. Salafi militancy is chiefly ideological in nature, but it has formed armed groups.

Salafi forces were central to the anti-coalition insurgency in Iraq and continue to oppose Shia rule. They are also parts of the Syrian rebellion which is on the verge of ousting the Assad government. Egyptian Salafis hurriedly patched together a political movement after President Mubaraks ouster last year and won 25 percent of the popular vote in recent elections.

Observers noted their generous gifts to the poor in the weeks before the vote but were at a loss to determine how they afforded such largesse. Suspicion naturally fell on Riyadh.

Efforts to stifle democracy will have adverse consequences that the Saudis would be unwise to ignore. Large swathes of the new Middle East, from Morocco to Iraq, will add counterrevolution to the faults of the House of Saud, which already include decadence, impiety, and only intermittent attention to the Palestinian cause.

The U.S. and EU will resent Saudi attempts to halt democratization. Reform-minded youth in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, and the Emirates will be deeply annoyed by Riyadhs counterrevolutionary program and their own governments complicity in it. They may be emboldened to take firmer steps to end autocracy in their countries.

Further, supporting armed Salafi groups in Syria and in Sunni parts of Iraq can burden the region with violent, destabilizing forces for years to come. Saudi Arabia seeks to channel their zeal and talent toward its ends, but such groups may prove unmanageable and their allegiance to Riyadh may be short-lived.

Brian M Downing is a political/military analyst and author of The Military Revolution and Political Change and The Paths of Glory: War and Social Change in America from the Great War to Vietnam. He can be reached at brianmdowning@gmail.com.

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## Yzd Khalifa

farag said:


> By the way, Iran has not invested a dime in Egypt. Why did you see otherwise?



I never said Iran had invested a thing in Egypt Sir. I'm saying that they spent tons on the MB itself.



farag said:


> Sudan is an example of how to have good relations with GCC and Iran at the same time.



Are you seriously trying to compare Egypt with Sudan? You can't be serious, are you? 

I'm afraid but Egypt is too valuable for us.

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## fallstuff

qamar1990 said:


> the tyrant eygptian army can destroy this democratically elected government but they cant destroy the peoples will. viva islam viva the people of Egypt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what my egptian friend said is that the people love morsi, these protestors are a joke secularists notice the tone of the media on this its pathetic and unfair, they are covering these secularists while ignoring the counter protests



*I did manage to get a copy of the dreaded new Constitution, here are some excerpts.*

*CONSTITUTION PREAMBLE&#8232;*

We, the people of Egypt,
In the name of the merciful God and with his aid,
declare this to be

Our Constitution, the document of the 25th of January revolution, which was started by our youth, embraced by our people, supported by our Armed Forces;

Having rejected, in Tahrir Square and all over the country all forms of injustice, oppression, tyranny, despotism, exclusion, plunder and monopoly;

Proclaimed our full rights to bread, freedom, social justice, and human dignity, paid for by the blood of our martyrs, the pain of our injured, the dreams of our children, the strife of our men and women;

Recovered the spirit of our great civilization and our luminous history, for on the banks of the timeless Nile we established the oldest state that has always known the meaning of citizenship and equality, gave humanity the first alphabet, opened the way to monotheism and the knowledge of the Creator, embraced Gods prophets and messages, and adorned the pages of history with parades of creativity;

*And in continuation of our virtuous revolution which has unified all Egyptians on the path of building a modern democratic state,** we declare our adherence to the following principles:*

*One *
The people are the source of all authorities. Authorities are instituted by and derive their legitimacy from the people, and are subject to the peoples will. The responsibilities and competencies of authorities are a duty to bear, not a privilege or a source of immunity.
*
Two *
A democratic system of government, establishing the grounds for peaceful transfer of power, supporting political pluralism, ensuring fair elections and the peoples contribution in the decision-making process.

*Three *
The individuals dignity is an extension of the nations dignity. Further, there is no dignity for a country in which women are not honored; women are the sisters of men and partners in all national gains and responsibilities.
*
Four *
Freedom is a right: freedom of thought, expression and creativity; freedom in housing, property and travel; its principles laid down by the Creator in the motion of the universe and human nature.

*Five* &#8232;
Equality and equal opportunities are established for all citizens, men and women, without discrimination or nepotism or preferential treatment, in both rights and duties.

*Six *&#8232;
The rule of law is the basis of the individuals freedom, the legitimacy of authority, and the states respect of the law. No power shall override that of righteousness, and the judiciary shall be independent, bearer of the honorable mission of defending the Constitution, upholding justice, and preserving rights and freedoms.

*Seven &#8232;*
Upholding national unity is an obligation, and the cornerstone of building a modern Egypt and the path to progress and development. To that end, the values of tolerance and moderation shall be spread, and the rights and freedoms of all citizens shall be protected without discrimination.

*Eight &#8232;*
Defending the nation is a duty and an honor. Our Armed Forces form a professional and neutral national institution that does not interfere in political affairs. It is the protective shield of the country.

*Nine *&#8232;
Security is a great blessing; it falls on the shoulders of a police force which works in the service of the people, for their protection and to enforce the measures of justice. For there can be no justice without protection, and no protection without security institutions that respect the rule of law and human dignity.

*Ten *&#8232;
Unity is the hope of the Arab nation; it is historys call, the futures bid, and destinys demand. Such unity is to be reinforced through the integration and fraternity with countries of the Nile Valley and of the Muslim world, both a natural extension borne out of the distinctiveness of Egypts position on the global map.

*Eleven &#8232;*
Egypts pioneering intellectual and cultural leadership is an embodiment of its soft power, and a model of the free generosity of original creators and thinkers, universities, science centers, linguistic and research centers, the press, the arts, literature and mass media, the national church, and Al-Azhar with its history as a mainstay of national identity, the Arabic language and Islamic Sharia, and as a beacon for moderate enlightened thought


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## Silverblaze

Frogman said:


> The army had set up reconciliation talks between the brotherhood and the opposition for the past 6 months. The presidency refused to attend and then the opposition followed suit after the insult. The military also gave a week for reconciliation before the 30th of June, the presidency refused and Mursi came out with a 3 hour speech which was frankly insulting to the nation and the institution itself. After that the military gave 48 hours for reconciliation and the presidency didn't act. They released another speech which was insulting and threatened violence. The MB and the presidency had chances they didn't act.



True. 

But should that have induced a coup and abrogation of the constitution of Egypt? Egypt is not a city state like Singapore where you can topple an entire govt at the drop of a hat. 

Egypt is the largest country in the Arab world ok. 

If negotiations failed, they should have tried again and again. 

Egyptian army has conducted an unconstitutional act and has demolished democratic institutions.

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## farag

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I never said Iran had invested a thing in Egypt Sir. I'm saying that they spent tons on the MB itself.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you seriously trying to compare Egypt with Sudan? You can't be serious, are you?
> 
> I'm afraid but Egypt is too valuable for us.



Just an example to say why don't you tell Sudan or Pakistan to cut the relations with Iran.


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## BATMAN

muse said:


> When will Pakistan show the islamicans the same as the brave people of Egypt?



When have you seen Islamicians ruling Pakistan?


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## shuntmaster

muse said:


> When will Pakistan show the islamicans the same as the brave people of Egypt?



Who is not an Islamist party in Pakistan apart from MQM and ANP?

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## Silverblaze

BATMAN said:


> When have you seen Islamicians ruling Pakistan?



Zia a bright example, MMA, is another recent example. 

No one should be against Islam or people who propose Islam, but the problem is using Islamic credentials to play politics. 

Its more dangerous than the so called liberals using liberalism to play power politics.


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## Developereo

gambit said:


> Meaning...Well exaggerated. For the Muslims, it is unthinkable that they may have contradictory views, even when there is an obviously odious character like Saddam Hussein. Any opposition by any Muslim against any Muslim could only come from the CIA-Zionists alliance. Now *THAT* is the biggest yawn of them all.



Always entertaining when you perform according to script.

First it was the anti-Semitism victim card.
Now it's your usual 'Moooslims are evil" rant.

I don't want to derail this thread by talking about CIA's role in Mossadeq's ousting. The American media itself has done a good enough job exposing it. Oh, but they are "evil liberals" like Bill Moyers and all, so you will also dismiss them as "closet Mooslims".

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## Yzd Khalifa

Cheetah786 said:


> *Shiism and Iran.*



One-sided article may make you happy for a little while, especially when it comes to the roots of all evil in the ME.


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## shuttler

agentny17 said:


> When did we even leave ?!!



dont leave home without it: $1.3bn in foreign aid


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## BLACKEAGLE



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## Developereo

flamer84 said:


> I am still amazed to see that many people here don't understand that democracy isn't about electing someone and that guy does whatever he wants until next elections,you have to rule within rules and respect the minority.



What the other side doesn't appreciate is that, when an elected leader transgresses the rules, there are established procedures to address the problem. As I mentioned before, you can have no-confidence votes, impeachment or early elections. The one thing you DON'T do is to call in the army.

How would the hypocrites here react if a secular leader had been ousted by Islamist mobs and the army?
Seriously.



somebozo said:


> This is what they were busy doing so the army had enough standing back and watching the show of country going down the drain...



http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Senate/Powers_practice_n_procedures/~/link.aspx?_id=8C004ED71E9D44FEACE193716D2F3FD6&_z=z



> The President, on taking the chair each day, shall read the following prayer:
> 
> Almighty God, we humbly beseech Thee to vouchsafe Thy special blessing upon this Parliament, and that Thou wouldst be pleased to direct and prosper the work of Thy servants to the advancement of Thy glory, and to the true welfare of the people of Australia.
> 
> Our Father, which art in Heaven, Hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen.



People need to get past their hysterical reactions to anything Islamic.

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## Frogman

Share prices in Egypt have leapt higher after the ousting of Mohammed Morsi as the country's president.

Stocks in Cairo rose by 7% on Thursday, their largest one-day percentage gain in over a year.

Traders are hoping that Egypt's prospects will improve in the absence of Mr Morsi, even though the country's battered economy remains in crisis.

Some analysts said a long-stalled loan from the IMF may now be possible, although others remained sceptical.

"The technocrats will know how to deal with institutions - they will help the country financially because they have a clear agenda," said Sebastien Henin, portfolio manager at The National Investor, an Abu Dhabi-based investment firm.

"There will be a definitive change to the business environment for international and domestic investors," he added.
Window of opportunity

However, for Dina Ahmad, a strategist at BNP Paribas, the initial optimism shouldn't be overplayed.

"While essentially this takes Egypt back to square one and delays any chance of economic progress and an IMF deal even further, we think that ultimately it creates a window of opportunity for a more stable government to be put in place," she said.

This window of opportunity brought about by the protests that saw Mr Morsi removed from office has, at least in part, been created by the Egypt's dire economic performance over the past two years.






The Arab Spring revolution that removed Hosni Mubarak from power did not translate into the economic change many had hoped for.

Instead, over the past two years, political instability in Egypt has ensured that inflation and unemployment rose, while foreign investment and tourist revenues fell.

Government debt has grown from $30bn before Mr Mubarak was ousted to around $40bn today. Inflation, which two and a half years ago was 3%, now stands at between 13% and 18%. Unemployment has climbed to a record 13.2% under Mr Morsi.
Gradual change too slow

Caroline Freund from the Peterson Institute for International Economics said when Mr Morsi came to power two years ago, he squandered the short 'grace period' he had to implement changes that might have improved the economy, while he had the support of a newly liberated people.

"It's very typical for economies to decline in the year around transition, but what we've seen is that countries that are able to demonstrate a clear programme both politically and economically are able to rebound much more quickly than countries that do it gradually," she said.

"While gradual sounds good, gradual usually end up being gradual by default, rather than by design, which is a real problem for the economy because it leaves investors, tourists and consumers on the sidelines waiting to see where things are going."

The political instability has made it increasingly difficult for the government to raise taxes from Egypt's 80m-strong population. 

So, as Egypt's debt ballooned, Mr Morsi's government continually dipped into the country's cash reserves, which at $16bn today are less than half what they were before Mr Morsi took office.

Because he battled to raise money from his own people, tourists stopped coming and the IMF loan became stalled, Mr Morsi often relied on cash from other sources to balance the books.

Qatar and Saudi Arabia loaned at least $3bn each, Turkey put in another $1bn and Libya stumped up $2bn. And while the IMF loan of $4.8bn failed to materialise, the United States kept up its annual grant of more than $1.3bn.

But it wasn't nearly enough. 






In May, the United Nations said that poverty and food insecurity had escalated severely over the past three years. It estimated 17% of the population battled to put food on the table, up from 14% in 2009. In addition, the UN calculated that the malnutrition rate had risen to 31% of children under five, up from 23% in 2005.
From bad to worse

Analysts say that under Mr Morsi, Egypt's economy went from bad to much worse and is now close to collapse. Electricity and water supplies are sporadic and in some places even basic foods like bread are hard to come by.






However, such a picture shouldn't detract from the fact that Egypt economy was in dire straits before the revolution that ousted Hosni Mubarak. Unemployment was running at 10% and a quarter of young people were out of work.

In the absence of the Muslim Brotherhood in control of the government, the willingness on the part of donors like Qatar may be in question.

Also, there's no guarantee that any replacement authority will be able to prise cash out of the International Monetary Fund. Mr Morsi's government did sign the much-needed IMF's $4.8bn loan deal last November, but failed to ratify or implement it.

His reluctance to sign the deal was, in part, down to the austerity measures that were conditional on it. Taxes would have increased and, more importantly, fuel and fuel subsidies would have been cut.

Such moves would have made the government extremely unpopular and, no doubt, would have resulted in mass protests.

But by not implementing the strings that were attached to the IMF loan, the economy deteriorated further and the enviable ousting happened anyway.

Where next?

It's almost impossible to have any sort of economic stability in the face of political turmoil. By taking control, the Egyptian army may provide the degree of stability necessary to bring the donors and investors back, if only in the short-term.

Hence, the jump in Cairo's stock market. The cost of insuring financial exposure to Egypt in the Credit Default Swap (CDS) market has also fallen.

However, this initial euphoria may be short-lived - underneath the harsh economic realities remain.

Karim Shafaei is the chairman of Al Ismaelia for Real Estate Investments, a firm that refurbishes old buildings in Cairo.

He told the BBC it's almost impossible to do business under conditions of such uncertainty.






"Without knowing where the laws of country are going, what form the economic policy is coming I'm unable to make investments without knowing what the risks are that I'm taking," he said.

As an example of the difficulties facing any authority that replaces Mr Morsi, analysts point to the issue of fuel subsidies.

Currently, the cost of keeping the price of fuel low gobbles up nearly 8% of the country's GDP. So, any formula implemented to permanently boost and stabilise Egypt's economy has to address this through a subsidy cut.

The trouble is, any government replacing Mr Morsi's will be only too aware that Egyptians would be more than willing to take to the streets if their lives are made any harsher.

Nonetheless, many, like Karem Shafaei, remain optimistic.

"The hope we have is that, whatever is happening now, the turmoil and the inability to do business, will result in a better society that is able to set more healthy economic policies, have more transparency politically that will allow more investors to come in and eventually see a society that flourishes."

BBC News - Egyptian stock exchange jumps on Morsi ousting

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## BLACKEAGLE



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## Yzd Khalifa

farag said:


> Just an example to say why don't you tell Sudan or Pakistan to cut the relations with Iran.



I hardly think it will be necessary to dictate what an X or Y nation should do. 

Well, the world will be better off for such regime like the aforementioned, not to mention when they're using a piece of land of a sovereign country. So logically, it's been a bad marriage already.



Frogman said:


> The army had set up reconciliation talks between the brotherhood and the opposition for the past 6 months. The presidency refused to attend and then the opposition followed suit after the insult. The military also gave a week for reconciliation before the 30th of June, the presidency refused and Mursi came out with a 3 hour speech which was frankly insulting to the nation and the institution itself. After that the military gave 48 hours for reconciliation and the presidency didn't act. They released another speech which was insulting and threatened violence. The MB and the presidency had chances they didn't act.



His speech was utterly outrageous.


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## fallstuff

I failed to see anything Morsi did that requires a take-down by the military regime. He may have went back on a promise or two, but that is basic politics. Obama went back on multiple stance and pledges.


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## farag

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I hardly think it will be necessary to dictate what an X or Y nation should do.
> 
> Well, the world will be better off for such regime like the aforementioned, not to mention when they're using a piece of land of a sovereign country. So logically, it's been a bad marriage already.
> 
> 
> 
> His speech was utterly outrageous.



As an other example UAE is the main good exporter to Iran and earns billions of dollars by that but asks Egypt to have no relations with Iran at all.

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## Frogman

Silverblaze said:


> True.
> 
> But should that have induced a coup and abrogation of the constitution of Egypt? Egypt is not a city state like Singapore where you can topple an entire govt at the drop of a hat.
> 
> Egypt is the largest country in the Arab world ok.
> 
> If negotiations failed, they should have tried again and again.
> 
> Egyptian army has conducted an unconstitutional act and has demolished democratic institutions.



The people from which the legitimacy of the presidency and all elected institutions as per the (disastrous) Egyptian constitution practiced their democratic and constitutional right to demonstrate in their millions (17 million+) against the regime and thus removing the Egyptian presidents legitimacy. Now, the army intervened as the Egyptian constitution had no bands or a constitutional process by which compromise or early presidential elections can occur (if there are mass demonstrations). Egypt could not have lasted another 3 years with Mursi. No economic or social reform plus power grabs every few weeks would leave Egypt with an theocratic government. Democracy is a continuous process not a one time in every four years thing.


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## qamar1990

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Speaking of BS, I'm not sure if you're confusing MB with Saudi regime. Again, MB hate GCC regimes guts except for Qatar. And come here, how dare you talk in the name of Egyptians? Egyptian uprising is to great to get soiled with this BS.



now your talking about @muse right?



Cheetah786 said:


> Is that why MB won the election?




i have no idea


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## Yzd Khalifa

farag said:


> As an other example *UAE is the main good exporter to Iran* and earns billions of dollars by that but asks Egypt to have no relations with Iran at all.



As far as my knowledge is concerned, The UAE complied by the sanctions being imposed by the UN against Iran. It's India though the main exporter of gold.

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## Syrian Lion

Who moved this to political videos? this should have been in in the Middle east section
@WebMaster

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## Kompromat



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## Yzd Khalifa

&#x202b;


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## Kompromat



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## Silverblaze

A sad day in Egyptian history, no matter what the military apologists say. 

Note: Please do not dub anyone who criticizes the military as a brotherhood lackey.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Silverblaze said:


> A sad day in Egyptian history, no matter what the military apologists say.
> 
> Note: Please do not dub anyone who criticizes the military as a brotherhood lackey.



You know, it was a bad hair day for us in KSA as well. Egypt is the heart of Arab World. 

Pakistan is coursing through my body though

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## Jihad_

Islamist gunmen stage multiple attacks in Sinai



> Islamist gunmen staged multiple attacks on security forces in Egypt's troubled Sinai Peninsula early on Friday, two days after the army overthrew elected Islamist President Mohamed Mursi, security sources and state television reported.
> 
> Attackers fired rocket-propelled grenades at army checkpoints guarding El Arish airport, close to the border with the Gaza Strip and Israel, in the latest of a string of security incidents in the lawless region, the sources said.
> 
> Separately, a police station in Rafah on the border with Gaza came under rocket fire, causing an unknown number of injuries among soldiers, according to the sources. The police post is close to the local headquarters of military intelligence.



They are trapped there. Bad idea.


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## Dr. Strangelove

agentny17 said:


> When did we even leave ?!!




my mistake


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## MooshMoosh

Poor Morsi, didn't hear a single crime commited by him.

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## gambit

Developereo said:


> Always entertaining when you perform according to script.
> 
> First it was the anti-Semitism victim card.
> *Now it's your usual 'Moooslims are evil" rant.*
> 
> I don't want to derail this thread by talking about CIA's role in Mossadeq's ousting. The American media itself has done a good enough job exposing it. Oh, but they are "evil liberals" like Bill Moyers and all, so you will also dismiss them as "closet Mooslims".


No. Just gullible and often self deluding.

By the Muslims' standards, I am CIA agent just because I happened to had lunch with an admitted CIA officer while waiting for our flight. Waaay back during the Cold War. The CIA is a convenient distraction, strawman, and canard all rolled into one handsome figure. And the comments I see about Egypt today is no different than from any other debates where Muslims are against Muslims.


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## Solomon2

Top ten mistakes that led to Mursis ouster

Thursday, 4 July 2013




A picture showing a protester opposing Egypt's President Mohamed Mursi. (Reuters)

Al Arabiya
Speculations of what could have led Egyptians to call for the ouster of Mohammad Mursi are many. Below are 10 reasons believed to be why the Islamist president failed to remain in power for his term.

*1- The Brotherhoodization of the state*
Within months, Mursi appointed Brotherhood members in various state institutions. He assigned five members in different ministries, eight in the presidential office, in addition to seven governors, 12 governorate assistants,13 governorate councilors and 12 city mayors, all in charge of 40 million Egyptians.

*2- Judges and Judiciary*
Mursis attempts to control the judiciary went against building a democratic state.

He dismissed public prosecutor Abdel Meguid Mahmoud last November, a step that was later ruled out by an Egyptian court as unconstitutional.
The presidents power grab last November was also considered a step that weakens the courts, as it excludes his decrees from judicial oversight.

*3- Ousting Mubaraks military strongman*

The dismissal of Field General Mohammed Tantawy, the defense minister under former president Hosni Mubarak, the countrys powerful armed forces looked at Mursi with mistrust. Tantawy, along with other top commanders from the countrys Supreme Council of Armed Forces where the ones who forced Mubarak to leave power.
Consecutive attempts to insult the military by the Muslim Brotherhood, which the president hails from, have made the relation between Mursi and the establishment at unease.

*4- Crackdown on media*

 The dismissal of editors heading some of the countrys newspapers, in addition to confiscating a number of newspapers, raised woes regarding the future of media freedom in Egypt under Mursis rule.
More than 200 journalists were questioned by the countrys public prosecutor.
The presidential office filed 100 suits against journalists and media figures, including the countrys popular satirist Bassem Youssef.
In a response, the government rebuffed critics, arguing that the move was aimed at suppressing media reports that incite violence or the ones that personally insult the newly-elected president.

*5- Economic failures*

-Failing to fulfill promises he had made during Egypts presidential elections fueled people against him. Failing to increase wages and improve living conditions.
There were about 558 demonstrations, 514 strikes and 500 sit-ins this year in Egypt.
The ousted president tried to resolve the countrys deteriorating economic crisis by his decision to amend tax laws last November. However, this resulted in increasing prices of essential commodities needed by citizens.

*6- Foreign affairs*
The timing of Mursis visit to Tehran and Moscow affected how his position from the Syrian crisis was viewed, especially that he came to power following a popular revolution that later inspired the Syrian uprising.

*7- Real decision makers*
Leaders at the Muslim Brotherhood continuously announced decisions and made statements regarding state affairs during public events. This gave people the impression that they were the real policy-makers behind Mursis decisions. This has weakened the presidents image in front of the public.

*8- Emergency declarations*
Mursis declaration of a state of emergency in three cities near Egypt's Suez Canal, following four days of civil unrest, was deemed as ineffective. The cities were subjected to a 30-day curfew, which according to the constitution, needs to be approved by the parliament or council members. The deceleration was challenged seriously by residents of the cities, who filled the streets despite the curfew.

*9- Pardoning prisoners*
Mursis decision to issue a decree to pardon 22 imprisoned defendants serving sentences in Wadi Natrun prison. Some of the pardoned prisoners faced charges of drug-selling and murder.

*10-Accusing opposition*
Filing complaints against opposition figures like former nuclear chief Mohammad ElBaradei, opposition leaders Hamdeen Sabahi and Amr Moussa, and a number of media personals accusing them of inciting people against the newly-elected president.

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## Desertfalcon

gambit said:


> No. Just gullible and often self deluding.
> 
> By the Muslims' standards, I am CIA agent just because I happened to had lunch with an admitted CIA officer while waiting for our flight. Waaay back during the Cold War. The CIA is a convenient distraction, strawman, and canard all rolled into one handsome figure. And the comments I see about Egypt today is no different than from any other debates where Muslims are against Muslims.


Of course you are a CIA agent. I must be one as well, but even if we weren't, the one thing that is clear is that anything wrong with their country, indeed, anything wrong in that region of the world, is most certainly America's doing. If it weren't, well then it might mean that they are responsible for getting their own house in order and we can't entertain that idea! Far, far, easier to chalk it all up to big, bad, ole', America. That's always much easier than you know, actually governing one's own countries like responsible adults.

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## Frogman

One confirmed dead at 22 years of age Conscript- &#1610;&#1581;&#1610;&#1609; &#1605;&#1581;&#1605;&#1583; &#1571;&#1576;&#1608; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1580;&#1583; R.I.P
Two confirmed injured the first at 29 years of Captain-&#1593;&#1605;&#1585; &#1593;&#1576;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1585;&#1581;&#1605;&#1606; and at 22 years of age Conscript-&#1575;&#1587;&#1575;&#1605;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1593;&#1610;&#1583; &#1601;&#1578;&#1581; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; 

May the Apaches in the skies of the Sinai bring down hellfire on those who have disowned their country in favour of a chair.

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## fawwaxs

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=193624790800426


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## fawwaxs

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=591698460864300


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## Surenas

Good decision by the military. That will learn those damned Islamists.

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## Frogman

fawwaxs said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=193624790800426



Video clearly shows Pro-Mursi supporters rushing a conscript and then trying to beat him and take his weapon, the response to which was firing in the air by the soldiers on the APC's. No one was shot or killed.

The pictures you have posted are honestly laughable.


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

why no one speak much about after period of that ominous coup by juntas..Everyone seen are very happy. Us, EU, KSA,Iran, Israel, Russia China and the rest...
Everythings is over or nothing didnt begin yet??....To me this is the beginning process of Pakistanizing of Egypt...
All politic circles of Egyptian are the loser...No winners...They are all passengers of the same hapless ship..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CU3wUUy5Qg

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## Frogman

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> why no one speak much about after period of that ominous coup by juntas..Everyone seen are very happy. Us, EU, KSA,Iran, Israel, Russia China and the rest...
> Everythings is over or nothing didnt begin yet??....To me this is the beginning process of Pakistanizing of Egypt...
> All politic circles of Egyptian are the loser...No winners...They are all passengers of the same hapless ship..



Thats a Sherpa scout in service with the central security forces and police only. Where did the bullet come from? 
Because the direction he fell doesn't indicate it was fired from the vehicle.


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## tyrant

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> why no one speak much about after period of that ominous coup by juntas..Everyone seen are very happy. Us, EU, KSA,Iran, Israel, Russia China and the rest...
> Everythings is over or nothing didnt begin yet??....To me this is the beginning process of Pakistanizing of Egypt...
> All politic circles of Egyptian are the loser...No winners...They are all passengers of the same hapless ship..



Jamaal,
I think you are shocked by the rapid fall of two Muslim brotherhood governments plus turmoil of the third one in Turkey.
No one is killed and Egyptians are happy. 
How can this lead to Pakistanization of Egypt? I think GCC will hep them to build their economy and get on the track.

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## Frogman

> Jamaal,
> I think you are shocked by the rapid fall of two Muslim brotherhood governments plus turmoil of the third one in Turkey.
> *No one is killed and Egyptians are happy.*
> How can this lead to Pakistanization of Egypt? I think GCC will hep them to build their economy and get on the track.



Over fifty people have died in the past couple of days from both sides plus the military and army.

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## Developereo

gambit said:


> By the Muslims' standards, I am CIA agent just because I happened to had lunch with an admitted CIA officer while waiting for our flight.



No, by debating standards, you are a comical entertainer who flits around from issue to issue.

"You evil Moooslims just hate Jews"
"The CIA had a minor role at best in ousting Mossadeq"
"That was the Cold War era; the new CIA is the kinder gentler CIA"

What your Moooslim-obsessed brain can't handle is that I am not blaming the CIA. I specifically wrote that the pro-American factions in Egypt were unhappy with Moris's shift away from American puppet state to a more diversified foreign policy, and it is *they* who acted.

The reference to the CIA was in response to people who rejected the claim that the CIA ever interfered in Middle Eastern affairs.


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## Alshawi1234

The Qatari-Turkish alliance to install puppet MB governments is failing. It seems the change of king Hamad was a planned move, the resignation was most likely forced by his son who had influence in the military. Just like king Hamad's coupe against his father. 

Although the disagreements are unknown to most, but I remember listening Iraq's PM speaking about it after meeting numerous Arab officials, they were all getting sick of Qatari supported MB puppets, even Jordan and the KSA.

Removing Morsi didn't come as an independent military decision, they most likely contacted numerous countries and made agreements before taking the decision. Lets hope a sane man replaces him though. 

Erdogan's government along with Qatar are supporting MB protests in the region, including Iraq and Jordan, and that's why they have been supporting the terrorists in Syria. They dream of an large MB rule area in which they can influence.

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## Hussein

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> Egyptian Army Shot a Muslim Brotherhood Protester - YouTube


if you check carefully you see he is moving his legs and there is no blood
without video showing he clearly was shot it could be a fake


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## American spying

Someone needs to bomb Turkey back to the Stone Age


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## Developereo

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> All politic circles of Egyptian are the loser...No winners...They are all passengers of the same hapless ship..



Yes.

This sends a message that playing by the rules of democracy does not work and mob action is the way to go.

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## Wholegrain

American spying said:


> Someone needs to bomb Turkey back to the Stone Age



You, Yabgul, trewq, ephone and iajj should all get banned.

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## Developereo

Syrian Lion said:


> they support overthrowing of other government and support terrorism just to get rid of governments... thus it is called double standard...



Was Assad democratically elected in Syria?

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## Neptune

American spying said:


> Someone needs to bomb Turkey back to the Stone Age



Don't do that, ahahahahaha. Noone's holding you...


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## ResurgentIran

Well I think their support of Muslim Brotherhood (and not only in Egypt) was vital part of their neo-ottoman aspirations.

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## Developereo

Alshawi1234 said:


> Erdogan's government along with Qatar are supporting MB protests in the region,



Erdogan supports democratically elected governments that reflect their people's decision rather than being foreign-sponsored stooges.

Morsi wasn't perfect, but he was a step in the right direction for the Egyptian people. Now, with a military coup, it's not clear if Egypt will descend into civil war.

Also, I don't understand Iranians. Morsi was in favor of improving relations with Iran, but the Egyptian politics is riddled with anti-Iranian factions, and he had to slow down to avoid antagonizing them too much. One of his ministers resigned with a rant just because Morsi wanted to ease visa restrictions on Iranian tourists.


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## Syrian Lion

Developereo said:


> Was Assad democratically elected in Syria?



it is from the people... he wouldn't be in office without the Syrian people...

Syrian Rallies - YouTube

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## iranigirl2

Developereo said:


> Erdogan supports democratically elected governments that reflect their people's decision rather than being foreign-sponsored stooges.
> 
> Morsi wasn't perfect, but he was a step in the right direction for the Egyptian people. Now, with a military coup, it's not clear if Egypt will descend into civil war.
> 
> Also, I don't understand Iranians. Morsi was in favor of improving relations with Iran, but the Egyptian politics is riddled with anti-Iranian factions, and he had to slow down to avoid antagonizing them too much. One of his ministers resigned with a rant just because Morsi wanted to ease visa restrictions on Iranian tourists.



The only anti-Iranian faction within the (former)Egyptian government were Salafi parties. wonder why?


Salafis to lobby against rapprochement with Iran | Egypt Independent


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## ResurgentIran

Developereo said:


> Erdogan supports democratically elected governments that reflect their people's decision rather than being foreign-sponsored stooges.
> 
> Morsi wasn't perfect, but he was a step in the right direction for the Egyptian people. Now, with a military coup, it's not clear if Egypt will descend into civil war.
> 
> Also, I don't understand Iranians. Morsi was in favor of improving relations with Iran, but the Egyptian politics is riddled with anti-Iranian factions, and he had to slow down to avoid antagonizing them too much. One of his ministers resigned with a rant just because Morsi wanted to ease visa restrictions on Iranian tourists.



Winning at the ballot box is not the end all be all. You have to respect and honour democratic obligations, which means respecting the constitution and the limits of your authority and power.
Which is the opposite what Morsi did. He issued a judicial decree last year to grant him immunity and significantly more power.
Tried to change or draft a constitution in a way that would not be inclusive to all political parties.

So I think this argument that "Morsi won elections at ballox, so now no one should question his authority/legitimacy" is getting extremely thin and weak.
Democracy is not only votes at ballot box. Its about knowing your place, respecting institutions and and constitution.
Morsi won elections, but he got greedy and overreached.
Largest revolution in human history. I think that speaks for itself.

And this isnt about Iran.

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## Developereo

Syrian Lion said:


> it is from the people... he wouldn't be in office without the Syrian people...
> 
> Syrian Rallies - YouTube



The only "rally" that counts is an actual free and fair election.



iranigirl2 said:


> The only anti-Iranian faction within the Egyptian government were Salafi parties. wonder why?
> 
> 
> Salafis to lobby against rapprochement with Iran | Egypt Independent



Moris was bucking the trend and his own party to mend relations with Iran. He was trying to move Egypt away from being an American puppet and improving relations with China and Russia.

If you guys think the next guy -- who is almost certainly going to be more pro-West than Morsi was -- will be better for Iran, good luck!


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## Aslan

shuntmaster said:


> Asad was democratically elected. FSA don't want elections.



Was he now, when did that happen.

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## Syrian Lion

Developereo said:


> The only "rally" that counts is an actual free and fair election.


then stop saying it is a military coupe in Egypt, because Egyptians were against Morsi... thus the army sided with the people, same story in Syria, the army sided with the people... and the people said their word... Allah, Souria, Bashar...

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## Developereo

ResurgentIran said:


> He issued a judicial decree last year to grant him immunity and significantly more power.



He reversed that decree.



ResurgentIran said:


> Tried to change or draft a constitution in a way that would not be inclusive to all political parties.



Again, there are democratic avenues to address such excesses of authority. Military coups are not the way to go.



Syrian Lion said:


> then stop saying it is a military coupe in Egypt, because Egyptians were against Morsi... thus the army sided with the people, same story in Syria, the army sided with the people... and the people said their word... Allah, Souria, Bashar...



Because it is a military coup.

Election results gave a Morsi win.

Loud, tantrum throwing mobs are no substitute for a proper election.

Don't you guys find it interesting that the West and GCC are amongst the biggest cheerleaders of this coup?

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## iranigirl2

ResurgentIran said:


> Well I think their support of Muslim Brotherhood (and not only in Egypt) was vital part of their neo-ottoman aspirations.



Muslim brotherhood=dreams of caliphate!

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## Neptune

Whatta bulls¡t rolling here! A few pro-Assad supporters came here and say it's democratic of the army for doing a coup. You guys say people don't want him. But at the same time when it comes to Syria. You say it's not democratic for people to resist.

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

tyrant said:


> Jamaal,
> I think you are shocked by the rapid fall of two Muslim brotherhood governments plus turmoil of the third one in Turkey.
> No one is killed and Egyptians are happy.
> How can this lead to Pakistanization of Egypt? I think GCC will hep them to build their economy and get on the track.




no any a sensible comment from any member yet..
Two MB goverment?..which was the oher one.. i didnt remember now?

AKP gov. successfully got over the western backed protests..now it iss the winner side..we have a deep experinces of 105 years of parliamentary elections, internal confilicts, millitary coups and external interventions..No one can so easily break our national common sense.

bro, let me elaborate a little that, 

1- i know KSA is one of the key external actor of toppling MB..But every external actors have different goals and plana about Egypt. Some foreign actors desire Egypt constantly to be in turmoil. events arent under control of a single actor or side.

2-MB is the largest politic front of Egypt..Excluding or without convincing MB you may not manage to provide stability in Egypt..lets excluding MB..but how will you get comprimisng between numerous other politic circles to establish an joint front againist MB?

3-What is your plan B if next election MB win again ?? did you take it into account well?

4- and one of the main reason that makes me too anxious is TIMING. Timing of toppling MB is terrible for the FSA and other opponents that fighting againist Assad regime..That military coup could break morale of FSA ..as you know in syria also the largest oppotion group is MB...Salafis party didnt support MB againist protests and m.coup in Egypt...So that may cause some resentment between MB and Salafi group in Syria..

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## iranigirl2

Neptune said:


> Whatta bulls¡t rolling here! A few pro-Assad supporters came here and say it's democratic of the army for doing a coup. You guys say people don't want him. But at the same time when it comes to Syria. You say it's not democratic for people to resist.



The majority of countries in the Middle East agree with this "Coup", including majority of Egyptian people.

Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Jordan.

Iran+Syria+Iraq are all celebrating tonight!


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## MooshMoosh

shuntmaster said:


> Asad was democratically elected. FSA don't want elections.


 France helped his grandfather and his father take over Syria. Not themselves, the Suuni majority would never allow an Alawi to do that but thanks to the French who helped the tyrants.

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## shuntmaster

MooshMoosh said:


> France helped his grandfather and his father take over Syria. Not themselves, the Suuni majority would never allow and Alawk to do that but thanks to the French who helped the tyrants.



If Assad is really unpopular, the rebels should have no problem in accepting the Syrian governments offer of holding an election.

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## Falcon29

farag said:


> The flow of money was coming from Iran in the much worse situation. Now hamas is left with erdogan. You already know it. I like palestinians no matter what even though I hate MB but you gotta accept the fact.



The flow is right back to where it used to be and money comes from elsewhere as we'll. I'm here in Gaza and I know where the money comes from, lots of donations come in too.



farag said:


> The flow of money was coming from Iran in the much worse situation. Now hamas is left with erdogan. You already know it. I like palestinians no matter what even though I hate MB but you gotta accept the fact.



The flow is right back to where it used to be and money comes from elsewhere as we'll. I'm here in Gaza and I know where the money comes from, lots of donations come in too.


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## MooshMoosh

A big respect to the AKP for opposing this publicity infront of those who supported the coup and that would the anti Muslim governments including the Khawraji (bad Muslim) Arab monarchies.


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## Neptune

iranigirl2 said:


> The majority of countries in the Middle East agree with this "Coup", including majority of Egyptian people.
> 
> Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Jordan.
> 
> Iran+Syria+Iraq are all celebrating tonight!



Nope. it's all about changing sides. Mursi or however it's spelled was pro-Turkey. And from my perspective People of Egypt or the army is either pro-Iran or non of them. Which is an independent state which it won't stand long.

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## Hussein

@Hazzy997 salam , where is coming from money now ? which countries donate more ?


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## Syrian Lion

Neptune said:


> Whatta bulls¡t rolling here! A few pro-Assad supporters came here and say it's democratic of the army for doing a coup. You guys say people don't want him. But at the same time when it comes to Syria. You say it's not democratic for people to resist.



Post #27

it is from the people... he wouldn't be in office without the Syrian people...


Syrian Rallies - YouTube

Post #32

then stop saying it is a military coupe in Egypt, because Egyptians were against Morsi... thus the army sided with the people, same story in Syria, the army sided with the people... and the people said their word... Allah, Souria, Bashar...

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## Syrian Lion

MB terrorists shoot each other to blame the Army... Syria 2.0

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## MooshMoosh

Developereo said:


> Don't you guys find it interesting that the West and GCC are amongst the biggest cheerleaders of this coup?


The West hates Islam so they wanted MB out and the Arab monarchies are anti MB, everyone knows it. I want to know what is you or the Pakistani's opinion on the Pakistan coup in 1999?


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## Syrian Lion

MooshMoosh said:


> *The West hates Islam *so they wanted MB out and the Arab monarchies are anti MB, everyone knows it. I want to know what is you or the Pakistani's opinion on the Pakistan coup in 1999?



but Obama supported Morsi?? also the west is the biggest ally of GCC (Muslim countries and etc)

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## Hussein

Obama Officials Meet with Controversial Cleric - Politics - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com
lol

by the way i heard that Al-Qaradawi was forbidden to live in Qatar , is it true ? rumor ?
belgium note about it (French language)
http://www.yenoo.be/news/religion/le-nouvel-emir-du-qatar-va-expulser-le-cheikh-youssef-al-qaradawi


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## ResurgentIran

Neptune said:


> Whatta bulls¡t rolling here! A few pro-Assad supporters came here and say it's democratic of the army for doing a coup. You guys say people don't want him. But at the same time when it comes to Syria. You say it's not democratic for people to resist.



If you really want to get into Syria, ok.
Syrian government has agreed to participate in negotiations, in Geneva (unlike the opposition)
Iran has suggested a very comprehensive 5-point plant which includes cease-fire and pursue genuine elections (supervised by international bodies), and have a power-sharing formula. This has been welcomed by China, Russia and the countries of non-aligned movement which is more than half the world.

The problem is that democracy in Syria is conflicting with Western Interests. Because they know Assad would win (as recent CIA report suggested, where over 70 % of Syrians want Assad).
So instead Turkey and West arm Al-Qaeda terrorists.

So Turkey is against democracy in Syria.

But lets keep the discussion about Egypt, shall we?

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## Hussein

MooshMoosh said:


> The West hates Islam so they wanted MB out and the Arab monarchies are anti MB, everyone knows it. I want to know what is you or the Pakistani's opinion on the Pakistan coup in 1999?



the only true part of what you say is some Arab monarchies hate MB
because MB doesn't agree with monarchy when some other movments accept conveniently about accepting kings


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## MooshMoosh

Syrian Lion said:


> Post #27
> 
> it is from the people... he wouldn't be in office without the Syrian people...
> 
> 
> Syrian Rallies - YouTube
> 
> Post #32
> 
> then stop saying it is a military coupe in Egypt, because Egyptians were against Morsi... thus the army sided with the people, same story in Syria, the army sided with the people... and the people said their word... Allah, Souria, Bashar...


Hafez Assad was the responsible of the killing the Suuni majority in 1979 Aleppo school massacre, 1980 Jisr al Shighour massacre, 1980 the Seige of Aleppo Massacre, 1981 Tadmor Prison Massacre and 1982 Hama Massacre. All combined total death of over 50,000. Bashar Assad is doing the same by destroying the entire cities by using every military capabilities he owned or brought from Tehran and Moscow and was responsible of killing over 100,000 Suuni majority civilians. Syria is a Suuni majority and look at the genocide Hafez and Bashar had done? Do you think they'll forgive him moron?

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## iranigirl2

*What is Happening in Egypt?*

The July 3 move by the Egyptian military to stabilize the country signals the collapse of Obama&#8217;s Middle East policy. 

Washington&#8217;s present interventionist regional policy began during the George W. Bush administration and was fatally flawed from the start. The Obama administration simply compounded the mistakes while moving it forward. 

Vice President Dick Cheney and his neo-con team created a crusade against the Shia branch of Islam targeting Iran, its ally Syria, and Hizbullah in Lebanon. The strategy called for a coalition of Sunni Saudi Arabia and the Sunni Gulf states plus Israel plus Turkey.

Sounds familiar doesn&#8217;t it? Neoconservative fellow-traveler Republicans, like Senator John McCain, have blown trumpets for the policy for years. The Obama White House adopted it as its own. The basic idea is to crush if not Balkanize Syria, go after Hizbullah, and then go to war against Iran.

While the pro-Israel Lobby in Washington DC is gung ho, some Israeli military and intelligence officials have grave doubts about all this. They believe with good reason that this reckless and destabilizing strategy will make the security situation much worse for Israel in the near, medium, and long term.

The Obama administration threw itself behind the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt after the January 25 Revolution in 2011. The White House ignored the millions of Egyptians, moderate Muslim and Christian, who hoped for modernization of the economy and the political system.

The fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood was created in 1928 as a secret militant political organization. Its long-term goal has always been to create an Islamic dictatorship in Egypt. In such an outcome, the country&#8217;s minority Coptic Christians would be savagely repressed just as the world is witnessing the fate of Syrian Christians at the hands of the Islamic terrorists. Moderate Muslims and members of various minority sects would share the same fate.

Washington&#8217;s regional strategy included using the Muslim Brotherhood as a tool to control Egypt and also as a factor in the crusade against Iran, Syria, and Hizbullah. As early as 2005, the Bush administration was in contact with the Brotherhood to work out behind the scenes cooperation.

The Brotherhood&#8217;s leadership fully backed this strategy as they saw it as a way to power in Egypt and a way to regional influence. Years ago, they had established secret Brotherhood organizations in Syria and in Palestine. The Hamas organization, for example, is a branch of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood.

The Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood established friendly relations with the House of Saud in Saudi Arabia as far back as the 1930s. During the Nasser years, when the Egyptian government cracked down on them for being subversive, many of their leaders and intellectuals got asylum in Saudi Arabia. Osama bin Laden&#8217;s favorite teacher in college was an Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood leader in exile in Saudi Arabia.

In recent years, Qatar linked with the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood and its branches in Syria and in Gaza. The spiritual leader of Qatar is a member of the brotherhood&#8217;s Egyptian branch.

Washington supports the so-called Free Syrian Army in the crusade against Syria and its people. The Free Syrian Army is well-known to be controlled by the Syrian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. This Syrian branch, in turn, over the years has interfaced with al-Qaeda and terrorist organizations in Iraq. The US military and intelligence community know this full well.

Because the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood&#8217;s policy to create an Islamic dictatorship in Egypt brought the country to ruin, the military moved in this week after a warning. The military was concerned not only about the increasingly extremist behavior of the brotherhood in Egypt but also by President Mursi&#8217;s recent very public declaration of jihad against Syria and reckless foreign policy.

The Obama White House and its neo-conized Republican allies have gravely undermined long term US national interests in the Middle East with their reckless interventionism.

It&#8217;s time for a real change. 


The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity : What is Happening in Egypt?

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## Syrian Lion

MooshMoosh said:


> Hafez Assad was the responsible of the killing the Suuni majority in 1979 Aleppo school massacre, 1980 Jisr al Shighour massacre, 1980 the Seige of Aleppo Massacre, 1981 Tadmor Prison Massacre and 1982 Hama Massacre. All combined total death 60,000-65,000. Bashar Assad is doing the same by destroying the entire cities by using every military capabilities he owned or brought from Tehran and Moscow and was responsible of killing over 100,000 Suuni majority civilians. Syria is a Suuni majority and look at the genocide Hafez and Bashar had done? Do you think they'll forgive him moron?



oh please, look up MB terrorism in Syria, which is why Alasad cracked down on those terrorists...

anyways to answer you :

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/234220-syria-questions-can-not-answered.html

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## Desertfalcon

Syrian Lion said:


> but Obama supported Morsi?? also the west is the biggest ally of GCC (Muslim countries and etc)


You are correct and I, as just one American, think Mr. Obama was dead wrong to do so. We should not be interfering at all, either in Egypt or in Syria.

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## Neptune

ResurgentIran said:


> If you really want to get into Syria, ok.
> Syrian government has agreed to participate in negotiations, in Geneva (unlike the opposition)
> Iran has suggested a very comprehensive 5-point plant which includes cease-fire and pursue genuine elections (supervised by international bodies), and have a power-sharing formula. This has been welcomed by China, Russia and the countries of non-aligned movement which is more than half the world.
> 
> The problem is that democracy in Syria is conflicting with Western Interests. Because they know Assad would win (as recent CIA report suggested, where over 70 % of Syrians want Assad).
> So instead Turkey and West arm Al-Qaeda terrorists.
> 
> So Turkey is against democracy in Syria.
> 
> But lets keep the discussion about Egypt, shall we?



Whoa whoa whoa. My plan was kinda different actually. Like bombing every naughty mid east state that makes trouble 

Joke aside, I take no sides in both Egypt and Syria. What I want is seeing Secular democratic states in Mid-East. As from now. It proved that it is impossible for any middle eastern country.


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## Developereo

MooshMoosh said:


> The West hates Islam so they wanted MB out and the Arab monarchies are anti MB, everyone knows it. I want to know what is you or the Pakistani's opinion on the Pakistan coup in 1999?



Let's keep Islam out of it.

The West, and East and North and South, all want a regime who is favorable to their agenda. There are lots of institutions in Egypt which are a legacy of the Mubarak decades, and which want Egypt to remain in the pro-West camp.

As for Pakistan, the military coup was wrong but the democratic system in Pakistan is also deeply flawed. Most of the people are either illiterate, or poor, or both, and are easily controlled by feudal landlords who tell them how to vote.

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## K-Xeroid

@muse If you really wan'na defeat Islamists in Pakistan then seculars have to came out from their homes which Pakistani Seculars are not capable of neither they are enough brave, Infact Every political party is filled with Islamists including MQM and ANP . So first of all you need purify these secular parties and make them enough stronger to topple Islamists(PTI , J.I & PML N) in Pakistan  . Just don't let them live in Peace . I'm sure i can trust your enthusiasm.

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## MooshMoosh

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> no any a sensible comment from any member yet..
> Two MB goverment?..which was the oher one.. i didnt remember now?
> 
> AKP gov. successfully got over the western backed protests..now it iss the winner side..we have a deep experinces of 105 years of parliamentary elections, internal confilicts, millitary coups and external interventions..No one can so easily break our national common sense.
> 
> bro, let me elaborate a little that,
> 
> 1- i know KSA is one of the key external actor of toppling MB..But every external actors have different goals and plana about Egypt. Some foreign actors desire Egypt constantly to be in turmoil. events arent under control of a single actor or side.
> 
> 2-MB is the largest politic front of Egypt..Excluding or without convincing MB you may not manage to provide stability in Egypt..lets excluding MB..but how will you get comprimisng between numerous other politic circles to establish an joint front againist MB?
> 
> 3-What is your plan B if next election MB win again ?? did you take it into account well?
> 
> 4- and one of the main reason that makes me too anxious is TIMING. Timing of toppling MB is terrible for the FSA and other opponents that fighting againist Assad regime..That military coup could break morale of FSA ..as you know in syria also the largest oppotion group is MB...Salafis party didnt support MB againist protests and m.coup in Egypt...So that may cause some resentment between MB and Salafi group in Syria..


You are the only smartest user in here when discussions about this and the ME. May Allah swt help the AKP against the Western backed protesters and secular oppositions.


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## Zarvan

illusion8 said:


> The rapes makes the protests ineligible? it's not about being anti Muslim - it's about religion being the basis for ruling a country - may it be any religion.


Islam is the bases and will remain so no body can stop it brother hood would be back soon and by the way for your information one religious group remained quite by now they would soon come out too and they are the salafists mr



K-Xeroid said:


> @muse If you really wan'na defeat Islamists in Pakistan then seculars have to came out from their homes which Pakistani Seculars are not capable of neither they are enough brave, Infact Every political party is filled with Islamists including MQM and ANP . So first of all you need purify these secular parties and make them enough stronger to topple Islamists(PTI , J.I & PML N) in Pakistan  . Just don't let them live in Peace . I'm sure i can trust your enthusiasm.


Brother only @muse like person can think this action has defeated the islamists in Egypt yes they are for this battle but war is not over yet Sir brother hood is fighting this war for past 60 years their several leaders killed and jailed for several years Sir still they are their with many cities still under their control and they would be back soon and by the way Salafis are quite by this time and they are combined second biggest political power and this could benefit them a lot

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## Zarvan

mafiya said:


> @Zarvan Morsi was thrown due to Will of Allah, do you agree?



Will off ALLAH is involved in everything but this can be due to major sins of Egyptian people which led to the ouster of a good man and don't worry soon Islamists would be back if not brother hood than the salafists in Egypt but seculars life would be soon turned into living hell


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## Luffy 500

A politically and morally correct statement by Turkey. 




Syrian Lion said:


> Double standard much...plus AKP is MB...



How?  Btw how is your assad doing. Funny how facist are criticizing AKP here. 



Syrian Lion said:


> they support overthrowing of other government and support terrorism just to get rid of governments... thus it is called double standard...



Scum should have been long gone. But I hope its the syrian people who oust this maggot and not some foreign army. 



iranigirl2 said:


> The only difference between AKP and MB is that, AKP has been extremely smart . *AKP slowly took over the police force and the Turkish Army. *
> 
> Do you know how many Turkish military officers are in prison right now for attempted coup??



SO what else do U expect from a gov? Not rein in control over the army? They did what they were meant and mandated to do. 



iranigirl2 said:


> One in Five Turkish Generals Now in Prison
> 
> One in Five Turkish Generals Now in Prison « Commentary Magazine



They have been persecuted for attempted coup and justifiably so. Any other country and these officers would have been hanged.

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## pkuser2k12

darkinsky said:


> please keep these rants to yourself you are now avoiding reply your own post
> 
> forget it



mayn nay pehlay b tumhari baten boot suni hayn 

mujay na baatao kia kehna hay kia nae samhjahy

everyone know who is the rant corp here


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## flamer84

Developereo said:


> Yes.
> 
> This sends a message that playing by the rules of democracy does not work and mob action is the way to go.



In my opinion the democratic process is flawed from the start in countries like Egypt,other middle eastern countries,some asian or even european countries like Romania,Bulgaria or Turkey where we still have large numbers of rural areas filled with unneducated people.For years i've been advocating that in my country we should have a rule:*only people with a minimum highschool education should vote*.How can you have a say in your country's future when you're an illiterate individual,these guys are just sheep for the parties entrenched in those areas,susceptible to cheap propaganda and unable to take rational decisions.One man one vote works for western countries where the vast majority of people have a basic education but not for the countries i've mentioned.Until basic education is spread to the masses,cohorts of illiterate peasants shouldn't decide a country's future.

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## BlueWarrior

This is sad, a democrate president who barely controlled the country for a year and now toppled by the general shows that democracy failed in Egypt.


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## Frogman

> no any a sensible comment from any member yet..
> Two MB goverment?..which was the oher one.. i didnt remember now?



There are plenty of intelligent comments on this thread by both those who support this move and those who appose it.



> AKP gov. successfully got over the western backed protests..now it iss the winner side..we have a deep experinces of 105 years of parliamentary elections, internal confilicts, millitary coups and external interventions..No one can so easily break our national common sense.



Egypt has also been through the series of military coups and has a long constitutional and judicial history in addition to a parliamentary and party history (until Nasser, that is). Every nation is different and that may be condemned by one nation can be welcomed by another. AKP mainly condemned the armed forces fearing the same could happen to them, as you know there are many military generals and officers rotting in jail.



> 1- i know KSA is one of the key external actor of toppling MB..But every external actors have different goals and plana about Egypt. Some foreign actors desire Egypt constantly to be in turmoil. events arent under control of a single actor or side.


 So, a single actor inspired over 17 million people to protest (which is their democratic and constitutional right) and sign a grass roots petition calling for presidential elections?



> 2-MB is the largest politic front of Egypt..Excluding or without convincing MB you may not manage to provide stability in Egypt..lets excluding MB..but how will you get comprimisng between numerous other politic circles to establish an joint front againist MB?



The MB were invited to participate by the military in the transitional phase and they refused the offer. They are destroying their own image themselves, to ordinary Egyptians by seeking a confrontation with a military that in many circles symbolizes Egyptian nationalism is a further blow to any sympathy they may have had for the MB and its affiliates.

The military has tried to conduct reconciliation talks with both the MB and the opposition, the presidency refused and as a result the opposition decided to boycott these talks. In addition to that the military before the first communique called for reconciliation talks between the opposition and the presidency, guess what the presidency refused and Morsi released a 3 hour long speech which was insulting to the institution and the nation. This wasn't a surprise event. 



> 3-What is your plan B if next election MB win again ?? did you take it into account well?



A constitution with adequate checks and balances limiting presidential authority and providing a clear constitutional process by which said president can be held to account if he oversteps his mandate.



> 4- and one of the main reason that makes me too anxious is TIMING. Timing of toppling MB is terrible for the FSA and other opponents that fighting againist Assad regime..That military coup could break morale of FSA ..as you know in syria also the largest oppotion group is MB...Salafis party didnt support MB againist protests and m.coup in Egypt...So that may cause some resentment between MB and Salafi group in Syria..



The only instance in which Egypt should be involved in Syria is welcoming refugees and providing them a safe and dignified life within Egypt no matter their political or religious affiliations as long as they respect and abide by Egyptian law.

The Salafi Alnour party underwent a process of maturity in which it realised without support and consent from the opposition to carry out their mandate (even if begrudgingly ) then they would have no chances of survival (If elected),

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## agentny17

Zarvan said:


> Will off ALLAH is involved in everything but this can be due to major sins of Egyptian people which led to the ouster of a good man and don't worry soon Islamists would be back if not brother hood than the salafists in Egypt but seculars life would be soon turned into living hell


We will burn in hell

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Azizam said:


> It's funny how both sides blame USA for everything.



yes.. it is both ironic and paradox.. One of side lying or mistaken..
Which side it may be?..it is no hard to know if we shuld be honest..

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## Developereo

flamer84 said:


> *only people with a minimum highschool education should vote*



It's not feasible unless the state can guarantee equal education opportunities to all citizens, which is not true in many poorer countries. There are also economic factors where poorer people might switch to trade or business rather than finishing school. Even in western countries, most people don't have the time or interest to research anything; they vote along ideological lines or by recommendations. The few who follow politics tend to have predefined views and are looking more for affirmation than to switch sides.

Also educated people are manipulated by emotional slogans just as easily as uneducated ones are.

The important thing is that the choice should be free from coercion.

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## Frogman

flamer84 said:


> In my opinion the democratic process is flawed from the start in countries like Egypt,other middle eastern countries,some asian or even european countries like Romania,Bulgaria or Turkey where we still have large numbers of rural areas filled with unneducated people.For years i've been advocating that in my country we should have a rule:*only people with a minimum highschool education should vote*.How can you have a say in your country's future when you're an illiterate individual,these guys are just sheep for the parties entrenched in those areas,susceptible to cheap propaganda and unable to take rational decisions.One man one vote works for western countries where the vast majority of people have a basic education but not for the countries i've mentioned.Until basic education is spread to the masses,cohorts of illiterate peasants shouldn't decide a country's future.



In some cases those with high school education or Uni degrees are ignorant to the political processes by which they are governed and the simple principles of democracy. I would advocate teaching gov and politics from primary school (mainly focusing on democratic principles).

I have a friend who will hopefully get into Queen Mary University here in the UK to study physics yet doesn't know what the cabinet is or which house provides the legislation by which he is governed in this country.

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## Cheetah786

darkinsky said:


> what did she mean by not being pakistan?



I believe the message is loud and clear we will not fight each other for sectarian reasons and destroy our country like pakistan.Instead of looking at this and asking your self what have we done you go on to insult her for speaking the truth.

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## darkinsky

Cheetah786 said:


> I believe the message is loud and clear we will not fight each other for sectarian reasons and destroy our country like pakistan.Instead of looking at this and asking your self what have we done you go on to insult her for speaking the truth.



what has the sectarian thing got to do with hilary clinton?


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## Cheetah786

darkinsky said:


> what has the sectarian thing got to do with hilary clinton?



western policy of divide and rule

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## flamer84

Frogman said:


> In some cases those with high school education or Uni degrees are ignorant to the political processes by which they are governed and the simple principles of democracy. I would advocate teaching gov and politics from primary school (mainly focusing on democratic principles).
> 
> I have a friend who will hopefully get into Queen Mary University here in the UK to study physics yet doesn't know what the cabinet is or which house provides the legislation by which he is governed in this country.



This is a solution to,but i'm tired of my future beeing decided by scores of villagers who vote en masse for a party since 1990(fall of comunism).The difference between city voters and those guys is enormous,we then see television crews going there and interviewing those guys and you see some pour souls who can't pronounce a decent phrase saying ;"we voted because they gave us tuica(home made romanian alcohol similar to vodca)","we voted this way because the priest said God wants that guy to win" or "we voted because the mayor said so" ,when asked about if they know what political agenda they voted :"I don't know son,i voted for things to get better" and that's that.I'm tired of these people deciding for me,i'm freaking tired!!


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## darkinsky

Cheetah786 said:


> western policy of divide and rule



so its american conspiracy to have sectarian problem? sorry bro but its our fault not america's

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## Sedqal

somebozo said:


> Typical mullah art of BS...after deciding the fate of Pakistani's now you want to decide for Egyptians as well.....years of indoctrination, brain washing and enforcement can cause permanent brain damage.
> 
> Now some reality shock:




Egypt will never be Pakistan!!!! How much more shame must we suffer for the dream of strategic depth. Muslim armies mostly excel in overthrowing their own govts, when was the last time any Muslim army won a war with Non-Muslims? 

Congratulations Pak Army you have found a good friend in General Sissy.


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## Homajon

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> 4- and one of the main reason that makes me too anxious is TIMING. Timing of toppling MB is terrible for the FSA and other opponents that fighting againist Assad regime..That military coup could break morale of FSA ..as you know in syria also the largest oppotion group is MB...Salafis party didnt support MB againist protests and m.coup in Egypt...So that may cause some resentment between MB and Salafi group in Syria..



Exactly!!!


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## iranigirl2

Homajon said:


> Exactly!!!



and that is exactly why Syria and Iran are celebrating!



P.S 

I'm reading a lot of comments from Muslims on social media, and they are pissed off MB was overthrown. They think it's a US/Israeli conspiracy against Muslims!!!!!

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## Cheetah786

darkinsky said:


> so its american conspiracy to have sectarian problem? sorry bro but its our fault not america's



Its not a conspiracy its tried tested and true policy. Egyptians message shouldn't be taken as insult their message should be received as eye opener.


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## Jayanta

KingMamba93 said:


> Egyptians have this illusion that they were somehow better off than Pakistan.



Aren't they? 

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD


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## Jayanta

self deleted


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## Cheetah786

Jayanta said:


> Aren't they?
> 
> I dont know what you posted but this is what i see


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## agentny17

iranigirl2 said:


> and that is exactly why Syria and Iran are celebrating!
> 
> 
> 
> *P.S
> 
> I'm reading a lot of comments from non-Egyptians on social media, and they are pissed off MB was overthrown. They think it's a US/Israeli conspiracy against Muslims!!!!![/*QUOTE]
> 
> Muslims have a thing for beards..... They support anybody with a beard just for the fun of it, i call it a beard fetish!!

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## Sedqal

Jayanta said:


> Well the common factor seems to be USA. Egyptian say MB is playing foul and helped by US, where as some Pakistani friends blame US and the Army for the mess...GOD knows whats wrong.



Its mostly Army 



Cheetah786 said:


> I believe the message is loud and clear we will not fight each other for sectarian reasons and destroy our country like pakistan.Instead of looking at this and asking your self what have we done you go on to insult her for speaking the truth.



As far as I know, Iran was the first party which started the sectarian strife in Pakistan, Saudia followed suit when Afghan Jehad stated. You have a very skewed understanding of events.


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## Cheetah786

Sedqal said:


> Its mostly Army
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I know, Iran was the first party which started the sectarian strife in Pakistan, Saudia followed suit when Afghan Jehad stated. You have a very skewed understanding of events.



Thank you for proving Egyptians message about pakistan right


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## Sedqal

Cheetah786 said:


> Thank you for proving Egyptians message about pakistan right



Perish the thought, you will always be welcome. Lets forget that Irani Mullah's backed a walayat e Faqih revolution in a Sunni majority country and the innocent sounding Tehreek Nifaz e Fiqh Jaafria .

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## RAMPAGE

"Truth got to be said, Dr Muhammed Morsi (ex-Egyptian president) is:

1) The first elected Arab president.

2) first civil president

3) first Arab president that memorised the whole Quran of by heart.

4) first Arab president thats from an Islamic party.

5) first Arab president that allows people to criticise him, theres over 30 channels in Egypt that insults him day and night.

6) first president that shakes hand with his previous prison guard.

7) first Arab president that forbids putting up his pictures in government buildings. first Arab president that lives in a rented apartment and receives a normal wage just like any other Egyptian.

9) first Arab president that takes his family out on holidays on his own costs.

History will judge for Morsi, whether he had mistakes or not, he is by far the best Arab leader in our time, compare him to any other leader and you will know for your self. Its not like as if he stole the peoples money and put it in his pocket."


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## Cheetah786

Sedqal said:


> Perish the thought, you will always be welcome. Lets forget that Irani Mullah's backed a walayat e Faqih revolution in a Sunni majority country and the innocent sounding Tehreek Nifaz e Fiqh Jaafria .



Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## iranigirl2

Sedqal said:


> Perish the thought, you will always be welcome. Lets forget that Irani Mullah's backed a walayat e Faqih revolution in a Sunni majority country and the innocent sounding Tehreek Nifaz e Fiqh Jaafria .



*Only two Shia militant groups in Pakistan and not one of them ever attacked innocent people, but only to protect themselves , family and community against terrorists.*
*
Sipah-e-Muhammad Pakistan*


Sipah-e-Muhammad Pakistan is a Shia group formed in the early 1990s as a response to sectarian violence against Pakistani Shia orchestrated by Wahabi Militant Deobandi movements such as Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan and Lashkar-e-Jhangvi.

During the 1980s, Zia-ul-Haq allowed and encouraged the Militant Wahabi Islamization of Pakistan. One of the organizations that arose in this period was the Sipah-e-Sahaba, a Wahabi Deobandi-supremacist militant group that considered the Shiite minority to be non-Muslim. The Wahabi Militia Sipah-e-Sahaba targeted Shiite mosques, community leaders, as well as Iranian visitors and diplomats. They orchestrated the assassination of Iranian diplomat Sadiq Ganji in Lahore. They were also involved in the killing of Iranian Air Force cadets visiting Pakistan in the early 1990s, when sectarian attacks on Shiites in Pakistan were at their peak. Both acts occurred in the northern city of Rawalpindi and greatly disturbed contemporary Pakistan-Iran relations.

Sipah-e-Muhammad's primarily aim was to target the leaders of Wahabi Militia Sipah-e-Sahaba and Lashkar-e-Jhangvi. However, with the subsequent rise in violence against Shiites, it was thought to be reforming.

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## Sedqal

iranigirl2 said:


> *Only two Shia militant groups in Pakistan and not one of them ever attacked innocent people, but only to protect themselves , family and community against terrorists.*
> *
> Sipah-e-Muhammad Pakistan*
> 
> 
> Sipah-e-Muhammad Pakistan is a Shia group formed in the early 1990s as a response to sectarian violence against Pakistani Shia orchestrated by Wahabi Militant Deobandi movements such as Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan and Lashkar-e-Jhangvi.
> 
> 
> During the 1980s, Zia-ul-Haq allowed and encouraged the Militant Wahabi Islamization of Pakistan. One of the organizations that arose in this period was the Sipah-e-Sahaba, a Wahabi Deobandi-supremacist militant group that considered the Shiite minority to be non-Muslim. The Wahabi Militia Sipah-e-Sahaba targeted Shiite mosques, community leaders, as well as Iranian visitors and diplomats. They orchestrated the assassination of Iranian diplomat Sadiq Ganji in Lahore. They were also involved in the killing of Iranian Air Force cadets visiting Pakistan in the early 1990s, when sectarian attacks on Shiites in Pakistan were at their peak. Both acts occurred in the northern city of Rawalpindi and greatly disturbed contemporary Pakistan-Iran relations.
> 
> Sipah-e-Muhammad's primarily aim was to target the leaders of Wahabi Militia Sipah-e-Sahaba and Lashkar-e-Jhangvi. However, with the subsequent rise in violence against Shiites, it was thought to be reforming.



I detest them too, point remains Irani Mullahs after the nutty revolution tried to start a revolution in Pakistan and backed groups like Tehreek Nifaz e Fiqh Jaafria (Movement for Implementation of Shi'ite Fiqh) in a Sunni dominant country. Any one with half a brain can see what would be the end result of Wilayat e Faqih in Pakistan it would be Saddam's Iraq or Assad's Syria. 

Saudi's started their own proxies AFTERWARDS - so much for Muslim Ummah and brothers in faith

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## Solomon2

Dismiss the Egyptian People and Elect a New One

July 4th, 2013 - 6:38 am

_Update: Why can&#8217;t we get 14 million people into the streets to proclaim that Obama is an idiot like the Egyptians did? Over at ZeroHedge, Jim Quinn posts pictures of the banners in the mass demonstrations. They are inspiring. 







One read: &#8220;Obama you jerk, Muslim Brotherhoods are killing the Egyptians, so how come they can guarantee you the security of Israel. Hey Obama, your deal with the Muslim Brotherhood is unsuccessful. Obama you idiot, Keep in mind that Egypt is not Muslim brotherhoods and if you don&#8217;t believe that go and see what&#8217;s happening in Tahrir Square now.&#8221; Another reads, &#8220;Obama, your ***** is our dictator.&#8221; A picture of Hillary Clinton read, &#8220;Hayzaboon [ogre] go home.&#8221; Many banners simply read, &#8220;Obama supports terrorism.&#8221; Others were too harsh to mention in a family site. Happy 4th of July!_

As Communist writer Bertolt Brecht offered after East German workers rose against their Moscow-backed masters in 1953, perhaps the Egyptian government should dismiss the people and elect a new one.

Don&#8217;t laugh. Mexico did this after the debt crisis of the early 1980s: it dismissed the fifth of its population that moved to the United States. China has dismissed its rural population and recreated a new urban population, by 2020 shifting the equivalent of twice the American population from countryside to city.

Egypt&#8217;s problem is that it has no practical way of acting on Brecht&#8217;s advice. The Egyptian people are dying; the question is whether they will die slower or faster. I prefer slower, so I am pleased by this turn of events.

Starvation is the unstated subject of this week&#8217;s military coup. For the past several months, the bottom half of Egypt&#8217;s population has had little to eat besides government-subsidized bread, and now the bread supply is threatened by a shortage of imported wheat. Despite $8 billion of aid from Qatar and smidgens from Libya, Turkey, and others, Egypt is struggling to meet a financing gap of perhaps $20 billion a year, made worse by the collapse of its major cash earner &#8212; the tourist industry. Malnutrition is epidemic in the form of extreme protein deficiency in a country where 40% of the adult population is already &#8220;stunted&#8221; by poor diet, according to the World Food Program. It is not that hard to get 14 million people into the streets if there is nothing to eat at home.

Nearly half of Egyptians are illiterate. Seventy percent of them live on the land, yet the country imports half its food. Its only cash-earning industry, namely tourism, is in ruins. Sixty years of military dictatorship have left it with college graduates unfit for the world market, and a few t-shirt factories turning Asian polyester into cut-rate exports. It cannot feed itself and it cannot earn enough to feed itself, as I have explained in a series of recent articles. Someone has to subsidize them, or a lot of them will starve. Unlike Mexico, Egypt can&#8217;t ship its rural poor to industrial nations in the north.

Egypt&#8217;s people embraced the military because they remember that the military used to feed them. In fact, the military probably can alleviate the food crisis, because &#8212; unlike the Muslim Brotherhood&#8211; Egypt&#8217;s generals should be able to count on the support of Saudi Arabia. Saudi King Abdullah Bin Abdul Aziz congratulated Egypt&#8217;s military-appointed interim president on Wednesday night, while the United Arab Emirates expressed &#8220;satisfaction&#8221; at the course of events. Only the crazy emir of Qatar, the patron of al-Jazeera television and an assortment of Islamist ideologues, had backed the Brotherhood &#8212; and his son replaced him last week. The Saudi monarchy hates the Brotherhood the way Captain Hook hated the crocodile: it is the only political force capable of overthrowing the monarchy and replacing it.

Former President Morsi seized power from the military in August 2012, the day that the visiting emir of Qatar appeared in Cairo with a $2 billion pledge to the regime. At the time I warned (in a note for the Gatestone Institute) that &#8220;Qatar&#8217;s check to the Muslim Brotherhood makes Egyptian stability less likely.&#8221; I argued at the time:

Qatar&#8217;s $2 billion is a drop in the bucket; it just replaces the reserves that Egypt lost last month. So is a $3.5 billion IMF loan, under discussion for a year. The Obama administration has been telling people quietly that the Saudis will step in to bail out Egypt, but the Qatari intervention makes this less likely. The eccentric and labile Emir is the Muslim Brotherhood&#8217;s biggest supporter; its spiritual leader, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi (who supports suicide bombings against Israel) lived in exile during the Mubarak regime. Qatar funds al-Jazeera television, the modern face of Islamism. The Saudis hate and fear the Brotherhood, which wants to overthrow the Saudi Monarchy and replace it with a modern Islamist totalitarian political party. Qatar has only about $30 billion in reserves and can&#8217;t sustain Egypt for long.

Qatar is something of a wild card: it is ruled by an Emir without even the checks and balances that arise from having a large family behind a monarchy, as in Saudi Arabia. The whimsical Emir just bought the Italian firm of Valentino as a gift for his fashion-conscious second wife &#8212; not a dress, but the entire company. His support evidently emboldened the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt to take on the military in the aftermath of the Sinai crisis. But that makes stability in Egypt less rather than more likely, because it gives the Saudis, the only funder capable of bailing out Egypt, reason to stand aside.​
Qatar has spent nearly a third of its foreign exchange reserves in a Quixotic effort to project power in Egypt, which might explain why the old emir abdicated in favor of his son. With the Muslim Brotherhood out of the way in Egypt, the Saudis have uncontested influence with the military. Presumably the military will suppress the Brotherhood unless it chooses to dissolve spontaneously. No one should mourn the Brotherhood, a totalitarian organization with a Nazi past and an extreme anti-Semitic ideology.

*The notion that this band of Jew-hating ****** thugs might become the vehicle for a transition to a functioning Muslim democracy was perhaps the stupidest notion to circulate in Washington in living memory.*

The Saudis have another reason to get involved in Egypt, and that is the situation in Syria. Saudi Arabia&#8217;s intervention in the Syrian civil war, now guided by Prince Bandar, the new chief of Saudi Intelligence, has a double problem. The KSA wants to prevent Iran from turning Syria into a satrapy and fire base, but fears that the Sunni jihadists to whom it is sending anti-aircraft missiles eventually might turn against the monarchy. The same sort of blowback afflicted the kingdom after the 1980s Afghan war, in the person of Osama bin Laden. Saudi Arabia and Qatar have been fighting for influence among Syria&#8217;s Sunni rebels (as David Ottaway reported earlier this week at _National Interest_). Cutting off the Muslim Brotherhood at the knees in Egypt will help the KSA limit potential blowback in Syria.

Egypt probably can be kept on life support for about $10 billion a year in foreign subsidies, especially if the military regime can restore calm and bring the tourists back (although that is a big &#8220;if&#8221; &#8212; one of President Morsi&#8217;s last acts was to appoint as governor of Luxor province an associate of the Islamist terrorists who massacred 62 tourists in Luxor in 1997). With about $630 billion in foreign exchange reserves, Saudi Arabia can carry Egypt for a couple of years while the Syrian crisis plays out. Saudi Arabia also has covered a good part of Turkey&#8217;s huge payments deficit during the past couple of years, which means that Ankara will dance to Riyadh&#8217;s tune.

This is the background to the Saudi monarch&#8217;s enthusiastic statement of congratulations to the Egyptian military, released almost immediately after the takeover was announced:

In my own name and on behalf of the people of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, I congratulate you on assuming the leadership of Egypt at this critical point of its history,&#8221; said the king in a cable carried by the Saudi Press Agency (SPA). &#8220;By doing so, I appeal to Allah Almighty to help you to shoulder the responsibility laid on your shoulder to achieve the hopes of our sisterly people of the Arab Republic of Egypt.

At the same time, we strongly shake hands with the men of all the armed forces, represented by General Abdel Fattah al-Sissi, who managed to save Egypt at this critical moment from a dark tunnel God only could apprehend its dimensions and repercussions, but the wisdom and moderation came out of those men to preserve the rights of all parties in the political process.

Please accept our greetings to you and deep respect to our brothers in Egypt and its people, wishing Egypt steady stability and security.​
I expect Saudi Arabia to offer Egypt subsidized oil as well as cash for urgent food purchases, allowing the military to appear as national saviors &#8212; at least for the time being. It is not clear what the Muslim Brotherhood will do, but apart from seeking martyrdom, there is not much that it can do.

In the Beltway, to be sure, the same folk on left and right who thought the &#8220;Arab Spring&#8221; would usher in a golden era of Muslim democracy are wringing their hands over the tragic fate of Egypt&#8217;s first democratically elected government. These include Republicans as well as Democrats, whom I qualified as &#8220;Dumb and Dumber&#8221; in a May 20 essay for Tablet. The sequel &#8212; call it &#8220;Dumb and Dumberer&#8221; &#8212; is still playing on CNN and Fox News. No matter: *the important matters are now in the competent hands of Prince Bandar, whose judgment I prefer to that of John Kerry or Susan Rice or John McCain any day of the week.* The best-case scenario would be for the grown-ups in the region to ignore the blandishments of the Obama administration as well as the advice of the Republican establishment, and to do what they have to do regardless.

Americans who want to conduct a great experiment in democracy will have to take their laboratory somewhere else.


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## Battle of Kursk

> In short americans finally got what they wanted, another civil war.



@smuhs1 I know you got exactly what you wanted too, another civil war.


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## iranigirl2

Sedqal said:


> I detest them too, point remains Irani Mullahs after the nutty revolution tried to start a revolution in Pakistan and backed groups like Tehreek Nifaz e Fiqh Jaafria (Movement for Implementation of Shi'ite Fiqh) in a Sunni dominant country. Any one with half a brain can see what would be the end result of Wilayat e Faqih in Pakistan it would be Saddam's Iraq or Assad's Syria.
> 
> Saudi's started their own proxies AFTERWARDS - so much for Muslim Ummah and brothers in faith



The Tehrik-e-Jafaria, Pakistan is a Shia political party in Pakistan. It was formed in 1979 with the name Tehrik-e-Nafaz-e-Fiqah-e-Jafaria as result of enforcement of controversial Islamic laws and politicization and discrimination against Shias in Pakistan Army and Civil Service.



*Sectarian violence in Pakistan*

In the early years of sectarian conflict, extremist Sunnis clashed with Ahmadis, until they were declared non-Muslims in 1974 by the national assembly of Pakistan through an amendment in constitution. Under continuing rule of Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq, sectarianism in Pakistan, especially in Karachi and South Punjab, became quite violent as the process of Islamization began in the Pakistani judicial system.

Social laws, which had been tolerant of the open-sale of alcohol, intermingling of the sexes, etc. were severely curtailed by Zia's laws, although hardliners in both the Shia and Sunni camps were largely in favor of his restrictions. The process eventually came upon issues in which Sunni and Shia viewpoints differed. In such instances Zia favored the Sunni interpretation of Islam over the Shia one, causing a rift between the two communities.



*Ahmadis were also trying to take over the Sunni majority country ?*


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## Homajon

It was a mistake that Iran interfered in Pakistan, but this was three decades ago. Today Iran isn't supporting anybody in Pakistan.


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## Sedqal

Syrian Lion said:


> oh please, look up MB terrorism in Syria, which is why Alasad cracked down on those terrorists...
> 
> anyways to answer you :
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/234220-syria-questions-can-not-answered.html



Saddam said the same. It is funny how things work in Muslim countries:

Saddam was monster who used any means to prolong his stay when majority detested him - Since he was Sunni, sunnis support him as a knee jerk reaction.

Assad is monster who used any means to prolong his stay when majority detests him - Since he is Shia, Shi'ites support him as a knee jerk reaction.

Every other detail be damned. We have seen what happened in Iraq, similar is the fate of Syria.

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## iranigirl2

Homajon said:


> It was a mistake that Iran interfered in Pakistan, but this was three decades ago. Today Iran isn't supporting anybody in Pakistan.



Fact is, the Shias have always been the victims, even when Iran interfered it was solely based on the fact that Shias were getting killed and a lot of Iranians in Pakistan were also getting killed. 

We never supported militants in Pakistan to go and kill innocent Sunnis or take over the country and turn it into a Shia county! 

*Both sides can be blamed for the violence, but fact remains to this day predominant Sunni militant groups are often blamed for attacks on the minority Shias (Shiites) resulting in reprisal attacks by them.*

Sectarian violence in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Battle of Kursk

@Developereo



> Again, there are democratic avenues to address such excesses of authority. Military coups are not the way to go.



The only democratic avenue left was an all out violent reaction, which no doubt would have led to a lot more blood shed.
What you don't seem to understand is that democratic election does not give the elected government tyrannical powers for the 4 year period, they still have to listen to the masses. Morasi was clearly ignoring incredible amounts of protestants, both in number and in % of the Egyptian population.



> Because it is a military coup.



In which the military retains no extra power while transferring the power to a civilian and through election back to the people? which really is what Morasi should have done in the first place. BTW don't you think it's a bit ironic that Morasi was himself installed as president following an election the Military organized and thanks to a military coup against Mobarak (which was also instigated by the masses)? 



> Loud, tantrum throwing mobs are no substitute for a proper election.



So about 1 of every 5 Egyptians is a tantrum throwing mob? how about the additional tens of millions who have supported this from their homes? In fact I was positively surprised of the low violence levels in the protests, except the sexual harassment and rapes I believe they were close to western standards. I think your remark here is extremely rude to the Egyptian people.

@Neptune


> And from my perspective People of Egypt or the army is either pro-Iran or non of them.



I seem to remember the opposite, that the army is mostly against Iran. They have protested against Murasi meeting with Iranians. It is partially caused because Iranian supported Beduin gangs killing Egyptian army men in Northern Sinai (not directly supported, but they are as link in arms transfers to Gaza).

@MooshMoosh


> The West hates Islam so they wanted MB out and the Arab monarchies are anti MB, everyone knows it.



Right, and that is why the West has accepted millions of Muslim Asylum seekers into their countries and has provided for them...


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## Sedqal

iranigirl2 said:


> The Tehrik-e-Jafaria, Pakistan is a Shia political party in Pakistan. It was formed in 1979 with the name Tehrik-e-Nafaz-e-Fiqah-e-Jafaria as result of enforcement of controversial Islamic laws and politicization and discrimination against Shias in Pakistan Army and Civil Service.
> 
> 
> 
> *Sectarian violence in Pakistan*
> 
> In the early years of sectarian conflict, extremist Sunnis clashed with Ahmadis, until they were declared non-Muslims in 1974 by the national assembly of Pakistan through an amendment in constitution. Under continuing rule of Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq, sectarianism in Pakistan, especially in Karachi and South Punjab, became quite violent as the process of Islamization began in the Pakistani judicial system.
> 
> Social laws, which had been tolerant of the open-sale of alcohol, intermingling of the sexes, etc. were severely curtailed by Zia's laws, although hardliners in both the Shia and Sunni camps were largely in favor of his restrictions. The process eventually came upon issues in which Sunni and Shia viewpoints differed. In such instances Zia favored the Sunni interpretation of Islam over the Shia one, causing a rift between the two communities.
> 
> 
> 
> *Ahmadis were also trying to take over the Sunni majority country ?*



1 - Funny how a party which wanted to enforce Jaafria Fiqh on an above 85% Sunni population was made just after the Nutty revolution in Iran? Too much of a co-incidence? And funny how for the percieve injustices Shi'ites decided they will make a party which will enforce a Fiqh unacceptable to 85% population. Maybe they thought Pakistanis will be as docile as Iranis  

2 - You should be the last one to talk about Ahmedis, Ahmedis are Bohris of Pakistan. Though not being a complete nutcase myself I can sympathize with their plight. 

3 - You see this is what really gets me, you don't give a flyin fk about Shi'ites in Pakistan. Sitting securely in Iran you unleashed a reaction in which countless Shi'ites have been killed. For you its only an influence game, Khomeni had to showoff how much power he exerts on Shi'ites of Pakistan without thinking for a second what will happen as a result. I can easily fathom what will happen if Pakistan tries t stir Sunnis in Iran against their govt.


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## Developereo

Solomon2 said:


> Nearly half of Egyptians are illiterate.



Which is why some people believed that Morsi -- the guy who improved ties with Russia and China -- was an American puppet, whereas the Egyptian army (weaned on American aid) and the English banner wielding urban and media elite were saving Egypt from American domination.



Solomon2 said:


> Jew-hating ******



The Jewish victimhood parade never ends, does it?

The Egyptian politics is about Egypt, not Jews.


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## Sedqal

iranigirl2 said:


> Fact is, the Shias have always been the victims, even when Iran interfered it was solely based on the fact that Shias were getting killed and a lot of Iranians in Pakistan were also getting killed.
> 
> We never supported militants in Pakistan to go and kill innocent Sunnis or take over the country and turn it into a Shia county!
> 
> *Both sides can be blamed for the violence, but fact remains to this day predominant Sunni militant groups are often blamed for attacks on the minority Shias (Shiites) resulting in reprisal attacks by them.*
> 
> Sectarian violence in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Oh Again with the 'victim' chants, Shi'ites were far far better before you decided to use them as foreign policy tool. Their misery started after the nutty revolution, not before it. Check the stats (I know it can be a chore)


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## iranigirl2

*Shabaab comments on Egyptian coup*


Just one day after the Egyptian military overthrew the elected government led by President Mohamed Morsi and the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood political party, criticism from jihadist groups is beginning to appear. Predictably, the jihadists are arguing that the Muslim Brotherhood has been misguided in attempting to gain power and impose sharia, or Islamic law, by following the democratic process. Jihadists are appealing to members of the Muslim Brotherhood, particularly the "youth," by saying that jihad, and not political participation, is the answer. 

Shabaab weighed in on this very issue today in a series of tweets on its official Twitter account. The tweets are reproduced below. Note Shabaab's rhetoric: "change comes by the bullet alone; NOT the ballot"; "the only solution for change: Jihad"; and "Islam can never be fully established without a guiding Qur'an and the sword to support it" (this last tweet was directed at the Muslim Brotherhood "youth").

The effects of the Egyptian coup may not be fully understood for years, but one thing seems clear: the event has provided al Qaeda and other jihadists with plenty of grist for the propaganda mill. It remains to be seen how effective this argument may be, but it is likely that some disaffected Muslim Brotherhood members will be swayed by these arguments. 

Tweets from Shabaab on the Muslim Brotherhood:






Read more: Shabaab comments on Egyptian coup - Threat Matrix


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## Battle of Kursk

@RAMPAGE

Many of those deserve respect even from a non Muslim like myself. It seems that he truly wanted the best for his country, that can't be taken away. Still it seems that his ideas of "improving" Egypt were opposed to those of many, if not most Egyptians in one way or another. Good will is not enough.
Personally I am happy for the Egyptian people for such a smooth revolution, it is admirable. That said, I am not sure it was the best thing for Egypt. Egypt is economically in a hole and revolutions and unstable government is never good for business. Economy should be priority #1 for Egypt, because the way things are going at the moment it's only a matter of time till people will begin starving. Many Egyptians are already suffering from malnutrition.
Of-course only the future holds the answers of what was best.

Best wishes to the people of Egypt.

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## Developereo

Battle of Kursk said:


> The only democratic avenue left was an all out violent reaction,



Not at all. Egypt's Constitution allows for impeachment proceedings.

Egypt's Constitutional Court looking to impeach Morsi - reports ? RT News



Battle of Kursk said:


> In which the military retains no extra power



Summarily deposing an elected official is a coup, no matter how you slice it. Some people are claiming that the military is going around arresting members of the MB. Sounds like the military has gotten into the business of deciding who can and cannot serve.



Battle of Kursk said:


> BTW don't you think it's a bit ironic that Morasi was himself installed as president following an election the Military organized and thanks to a military coup against Mobarak (which was also instigated by the masses)?



The military simply stayed out of it. Mubarak was not an elected official, so there was no concept of upholding democracy.



Battle of Kursk said:


> So about 1 of every 5 Egyptians is a tantrum throwing mob? how about the additional tens of millions who have supported this from their homes?



Even assuming your numbers are correct -- and I doubt it simply because the protesters are pro-West, educated elite who are active on the internet and media -- that still leaves the majority of Egyptians who did not ask for a coup.

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## Kompromat

Brotherhood supporters amassing in Cairo??

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## iranigirl2

*African Union suspends Egypt*


African Union suspends Egypt - CNN.com


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## Pak-Americanos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdZLBy5zH20

According to PISSTV:

*Sheikh Hassan Shehata was a prominent Shia cleric who had thousands of followers due to his moderate views and denouncement of radical and extremist movements in Egypt. He was well known for telling people about the nature of extremist groups and radical thoughts which are common in Egypt due to powerful presence of Salafist groups. *

PressTV - Memorial ceremony held for Sheikh Shehata

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## Solomon2

Developereo said:


> The Jewish victimhood parade never ends, does it? The Egyptian politics is about Egypt, not Jews.


You missed it; it's not about victimhood. Rather, if your hatred of Jews over-rides individual, human, and civil rights - which is what Jew-hatred does - than you can hardly be trusted to implement the individual and civil rights necessary as the foundation for democratic governance.


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## MooshMoosh




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## KingMamba

Jayanta said:


> Aren't they?
> 
> GDP per capita (current US$) | Data | Table



Yes they do excel in some areas versus Pakistan but if you knew what they meant by the signs you would know what I mean.


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## Developereo

Solomon2 said:


> You missed it; it's not about victimhood. Rather, if your hatred of Jews over-rides individual, human, and civil rights - which is what Jew-hatred does - than you can hardly be trusted to implement the individual and civil rights necessary as the foundation for democratic governance.



Oh, I missed nothing.

The insinuation is that, if someone doesn't support Israel, they can't possibly be true to liberal principles.

The reason I commented is because YOU highlighted that line out of the whole article.


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## Battle of Kursk

@Developereo



> Not at all. Egypt's Constitution allows for impeachment proceedings.



Yes, but it can only be done by the House of the representatives. As I have said before democracy does not mean giving absolute power to a group of people for a 4 year term. Ultimately Democracy is *the rule of the people*, representatives are there to represent and they draw their legitimacy from the people. If the majority of the people decide that those representatives use their power against the will of the people then it is the representatives who are in the wrong, not the people.

In effect the millions of Egyptians had no farther legal way to voice their concerns. A true democratic leader should have respected the millions of citizens on the streets and should have addressed them in some way, instead of ignoring them. Morsi may have been democratically elected, but he did not believe in democracy, the *rule of the people*.



> *Article 152:*
> The President of the Republic is impeached for felony or high treason if at least a third of the members of the House of Representatives sponsor a motion of impeachment, and the House passes the motion with a two-thirds majority.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



> Summarily deposing an elected official is a coup, no matter how you slice it. Some people are claiming that the military is going around arresting members of the MB. Sounds like the military has gotten into the business of deciding who can and cannot serve.



Yes, it is a coupe. It might have been done mostly by the military but it was supported by the people, you would probably agree that calling this a military coup is over simplistic and doesn't really represent the nature of what happened, or would you ignore about 15 mil citizens on the streets?

We already had a discussion over arrests/detentions. On this issue I prefer to wait and see what will follow. should they remain in custody towards the elections, or falsely charged I would agree. It is possible they were brought temporarily in as a mean to keep the backlash violence down, which is a whole different matter.



> The military simply stayed out of it. Mubarak was not an elected official, so there was no concept of upholding democracy.



Not really, 



> The military junta, headed by effective head of state Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, announced on 13 February that the constitution would be suspended, both houses of parliament dissolved, and that the military would rule for six months until elections could be held.



Sounds familiar?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



> Even assuming your numbers are correct -- and I doubt it simply because the protesters are pro-West, educated elite who are active on the internet and media



I am not 100% sure on the numbers too, though some sources have claimed up to 30 mil protesters, which is about 1/3 of the population so I was rather conservative. *Any sources that the protesters are all pro-west educated elite?*
It seems that the protesters are from every part of the Egyptians society perhaps bar the very religious.


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## Solomon2

Developereo said:


> The insinuation is that, if someone doesn't support Israel, they can't possibly be true to liberal principles.


Red herring. So I conclude you agree 100% with my assessment.


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## Developereo

Battle of Kursk said:


> Yes, but it can only be done by the House of the representatives.



Bingo!
There was legal recourse -- the military did not have to intervene.



Battle of Kursk said:


> As I have said before democracy does not mean giving absolute power to a group of people for a 4 year term. Ultimately Democracy is *the rule of the people*, representatives are there to represent and they draw their legitimacy from the people. If the majority of the people decide that those representatives use their power against the will of the people than it is the representatives who are in the wrong, not the people.



Of course I accept that democracy is not a blank check but the recourse is not to throw loud tantrums until the guy gets ousted. You can protest and let the supreme court (or appropriate authority) take action.



Battle of Kursk said:


> In effect the millions of Egyptians had no farther legal way to voice their concerns. A true democratic leader should have respected the millions of citizens on the streets and should have addressed them in some way, instead of ignoring them. Morsi may have been democratically elected, but he did not believe in democracy, the *rule of the people*.



Yes, the rule of the people comes into play during elections and the losing side always throws a tantrum, especially in close elections. If there are major transgressions by the elected officials, the proper procedure is to impeach them, not call in the military.

This sends exactly the wrong message to everyone in Egypt and in the region: that, if you don't get your way democratically, then take to the streets.



Battle of Kursk said:


> Not really,



Really.
Mubarak was not a democratically elected leader and was not entitled to such protections.
He came by the gun, and went by the gun.



Battle of Kursk said:


> *Any sources that the protesters are all pro-west educated elite?*
> It seems that the protesters are from every part of the Egyptians society perhaps bar the very religious.



What I meant was that the anti-Morsi crowd dominates the internet and media, so their view is disproportionately represented on the air and gives a distorted view of reality.


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## RAMPAGE

Aeronaut said:


> Brotherhood supporters amassing in Cairo??


the brotherhood's blood has been shed for decades now. Inshallah brotherhood will be back


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## Pandora

Battle of Kursk said:


> @smuhs1 I know you got exactly what you wanted too, another civil war.



Are you in your senses ? Why would i want a civil war. Next time try not to sound like a retard.


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## Developereo

Solomon2 said:


> Red herring. So I conclude you agree 100% with my assessment.



Since I reject the claim that opposition to Israel equals opposition to Jews, I cannot accept your assertion.

It is true that someone who opposes Jews just for being Jewish cannot be a liberal.
But the same can be said of people who stereotype and oppose Muslims.
Or Christians. Or Hindus. Or Buddhists.

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## Solomon2

Developereo said:


> Since I reject the claim that opposition to Israel equals opposition to Jews, I cannot accept your assertion.


You're still in red herring mode. The quote from the article and from my comment was about Jew-hatred, not Israel-hatred.


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## Developereo

Solomon2 said:


> You're still in red herring mode. The quote from the article and from my comment was about Jew-hatred, not Israel-hatred.



It is true that the MB contains elements which are against various faiths, but we have to look at specific individuals. Morsi had a checkered past, but he was showing signs of reforming and reaching out to other faiths, in line with his new responsibilities. He reached out to Iran. He assured Israel of continued peace. In fact, he alienated extremists within his own party by "cozying up" too much with Iran and Israel.

The fact is that, like Hamas, whatever other ideas an organization may have, the primary priority for the local electorate is whether they can address their economic and social concerns. The MB was perceived to offer the best option and they were elected to solve Egypt's internal problems, not for their view on Jews or whomever.

Many Western leaders have made disparaging comments about Muslims, but they get elected anyway.


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## Battle of Kursk

@Developereo



> There was legal recourse -- the military did not have to intervene.



False. The people on the streets do not have control over the house of representatives. Even if every single citizen of Egypt, every one of the 90 millions nation, except the few hundreds representatives, were in the streets there was nothing legal to be done. According to you it is alright to completely ignore the wishes of 99.999999% of the people for 4 years at a time because they are not the few hundreds of representatives?



> Of course I accept that democracy is not a blank check but the recourse is not to throw loud tantrums until the guy gets ousted. You can protest and let the supreme court (or appropriate authority) take action.



Your use of the word "tantrum" to describe legitimate concerns of the civilians is pure demagogy, how about we stick to arguments? I have shown supreme court has no power to impeach the president. Actually demonstrating when the actions of the government goes against the will is the true democracy. Democracy is not appointing a despot council for 4 years. In a democracy the moment the ruling class goes against the majority of the people it is automatically looses legitimacy, there is no need to wait 4 years!
*Democracy is the rule of the people by the people for the people. not the right to have election every 4 years!*



> This sends exactly the wrong message to everyone in Egypt and in the region: that, if you don't get your way democratically, then take to the streets.



Ah? peaceful demonstrations are the epitome of exercising democratic rights. Taking to the streets peacefully when the government acts against the wishes of the public is exactly the right message,* if you want to practice democracy that is?*



> Really.



You said that Mubarak family rule was not taken down ultimately by the military, I have shown it is false. As Morsi had legitimacy even though the elections were allowed thanks to the military, so would the next president should the army hold election as promised.



smuhs1 said:


> Are you in your senses ? Why would i want a civil war. Next time try not to sound like a retard.



I was trying to sounds like you, re your remark about the USA supporting civil war, to reflects how it appears 

I hardly ever laugh out loud over internet remarks, thank you!


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## T-123456

American spying said:


> Someone needs to bomb Turkey back to the Stone Age


Why not you do it?


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## Pakistanisage

I agree with Turkish government position.


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## Solomon2

Developereo said:


> The fact is that, like Hamas, whatever other ideas an organization may have, the primary priority for the local electorate is whether they can address their economic and social concerns. The M-B was perceived to offer the best option -


The M-B proceeded to eviscerate the very institutions and freedoms that enabled them to reach primacy while doing nothing to help lift Egypt out of its economic quagmire; the Egyptian people perceived this and demanded the M-B's removal, before its leaders could rob and starve the country completely and spirit themselves and their ill-gotten gains elsewhere.

It's been explained to me that had this scenario proceeded, Morsi & Co. would _still_ be able to call themselves "good Muslims" because, having gained wealth through political manipulation, they would have achieved "success". Please tell me this is an erroneous analysis and Islam isn't this cynical - or evil.


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## Developereo

Battle of Kursk said:


> *Democracy is the rule of the people by the people for the people. not the right to have election every 4 years!*



We are basically going in circles. I am saying there were proper democratic channels to address this grievance (which you have now attributed to 99.9+% population without evidence).

Is it possible that the popular dissent was not as widespread as claimed? That it was just the usual noisy, albeit large and tech-savvy, minority that always complains when they lose an election?



Battle of Kursk said:


> You said that Mubarak family rule was not taken down ultimately by the military,



No, you said that deposal of Morsi, an elected official, by the military was the same thing as what happened to Mubarak, and I said it wasn't since Mubarak, not having been elected, was not entitled to similar Constitutional protections.


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## Solomon2

Developereo said:


> We are basically going in circles. I am saying there were proper democratic channels to address this grievance


What "proper democratic channels" existed other than mass demonstrations? 

I recall the memoirs of one German Army officer, who mused about whether or not to revolt against Hitler in the 1930s. He justified his inaction on the grounds that when it was time to remove the Fuhrer the movement to do so should come from the people, not from the armed forces. Well, that's what the Egyptian military did, right?


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## Developereo

Solomon2 said:


> The M-B proceeded to eviscerate the very institutions and freedoms that enabled them to reach primacy while doing nothing to help lift Egypt out of its economic quagmire; the Egyptian people perceived this and demanded the M-B's removal, before its leaders could rob and starve the country completely and spirit themselves and their ill-gotten gains elsewhere.



While I accept that Morsi exceeded his authority a few times, he was chastised and his administration was evolving. Egypt has a nascent democracy, so we can't expect perfect behavior out of the box.

As for the allegations of embezzlement, I can't comment until they are verified, but every administration has some amount of corruption, and I doubt it would have been anywhere near the scale of Mubarak.



Solomon2 said:


> It's been explained to me that had this scenario proceeded, Morsi & Co. would _still_ be able to call themselves "good Muslims" because, having gained wealth through political manipulation, they would have achieved "success". Please tell me this is an erroneous analysis and Islam isn't this cynical - or evil.



The people who explained it as such to you can best answer that question about their version of Islam. In the Islam I know, theft is theft, no matter how you dress it up.


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## Developereo

Solomon2 said:


> What "proper democratic channels" existed other than mass demonstrations?



Impeachment by the appropriate authorities (House of Reps?).

If the protesters were truly representative of Egyptian society at large, they could have pressured their local rep to start impeachment proceedings.

If there was mass dissatisfaction with Obama, would you advocate a military coup or impeachment?


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## Battle of Kursk

> which you have now attributed to 99.9+% population without evidence



I have not, I merely stated that the democratically legal ways you refer to would allow a president to remain in office against the wishes of 99.9999% of the population. Which means they are not enough in every case *if* you care to uphold the wishes of the people. I did not say that that's the numbers in our case.

I have already agreed that I am not sure what are the exact numbers.



> No, you said that deposal of Morsi, an elected official, by the military was the same thing as what happened to Mubarak



Where? i only said that ultimately the method used was the same, the military. Not that the cases were the same. Morsi at his lowest had more legitimacy than Mubarak ever had, due to the elections, I never said anything to the contrary. I did say that in a democracy there are more ways to lose said legitimacy than 1 in 4 years elections.

I agree we are going in circles, we probably understand each other pretty clearly by now, so I see no reason to comment farther on the issue. I will not do so after this post. Feel free to have the last word

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## iranigirl2

_Afghans shout slogans in support of ousted Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi in Kabul, Afghanistan, Friday, July 5, 2013 _


Morsi supporters protest in Kabul after Friday prayers - Region - World - Ahram Online

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## Developereo

Battle of Kursk said:


> I merely stated that the democratically legal ways you refer to would allow a president to remain in office against the wishes of 99.9999% of the population.



I don't think so.

If a sufficiently large percentage of people were opposed, they would pressure their local rep to start impeachment proceedings.

The assumption here is that the entire administration, not just Morsi, was willfully ignoring the wishes of the general population.


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## Solomon2

Developereo said:


> The people who explained it as such to you can best answer that question about their version of Islam. In the Islam I know, theft is theft, no matter how you dress it up.


He's saying that if you can successfully steal from your fellow citizens you become a "good Muslim". I take it that's one of the reasons he takes pride in calling himself a "bad Muslim".

I confess to being perplexed both by my acquaintance's assertions and your qualified response. I assume, however, that the Egyptian masses demonstrating on the street are not confused, nor are the military leaders who are busy locking up and examining the contacts of the M-B leadership even as we write.


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## SarthakGanguly

Is it mainly because the Army is by and large secular and Morsi was an Islamist and hence inconvenient?


Developereo said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> If a sufficiently large percentage of people were opposed, they would pressure their local rep to start impeachment proceedings.
> 
> The assumption here is that the entire administration, not just Morsi, was willfully ignoring the wishes of the general population.


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## Developereo

Solomon2 said:


> He's saying that if you can successfully steal from your fellow citizens you become a "good Muslim". I take it that's one of the reasons he takes pride in calling himself a "bad Muslim".



Sounds like a sarcastic commentary on self-proclaimed devout Muslim politicians (like Mr. Brocklehurst in Jane Eyre).
By that logic, we have the world's best Muslims in Pakistan.


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## Pandora

Battle of Kursk said:


> @Developereo
> 
> 
> 
> False. The people on the streets do not have control over the house of representatives. Even if every single citizen of Egypt, every one of the 90 millions nation, except the few hundreds representatives, were in the streets there was nothing legal to be done. According to you it is alright to completely ignore the wishes of 99.999999% of the people for 4 years at a time because they are not the few hundreds of representatives?
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of the word "tantrum" to describe legitimate concerns of the civilians is pure demagogy, how about we stick to arguments? I have shown supreme court has no power to impeach the president. Actually demonstrating when the actions of the government goes against the will is the true democracy. Democracy is not appointing a despot council for 4 years. In a democracy the moment the ruling class goes against the majority of the people it is automatically looses legitimacy, there is no need to wait 4 years!
> *Democracy is the rule of the people by the people for the people. not the right to have election every 4 years!*
> 
> 
> 
> Ah? peaceful demonstrations are the epitome of exercising democratic rights. Taking to the streets peacefully when the government acts against the wishes of the public is exactly the right message,* if you want to practice democracy that is?*
> 
> 
> 
> You said that Mubarak family rule was not taken down ultimately by the military, I have shown it is false. As Morsi had legitimacy even though the elections were allowed thanks to the military, so would the next president should the army hold election as promised.
> 
> 
> 
> I was trying to sounds like you, re your remark about the USA supporting civil war, to reflects how it appears
> 
> I hardly ever laugh out loud over internet remarks, thank you!



You need to see a Psychiatrist as you are making no sense at all.


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## Solomon2

Developereo said:


> Impeachment by the appropriate authorities (House of Reps?). If the protesters were truly representative of Egyptian society at large, they could have pressured their local rep to start impeachment proceedings.


I think it's better to have the Egyptians here answer these points than I. 



> If there was mass dissatisfaction with Obama, would you advocate a military coup or impeachment?


Military coup is very different from impeachment. Impeachment is a legal process and the U.S. has gone through with it twice and a third president resigned as the impeachment process was about to start - the other two remained in office. Impeachment did not mean the Constitution was suspended.

In case of "mass dissatisfaction" I can't see the need for a coup. Our democratic system is pretty responsive to mass movements. But I'm not sure I can draw an accurate parallel here; we've never seen anything like the Egyptian situation where an astounding _one fifth of the population_ participated in demonstrations - numbers greater than those who voted in favor of the M-B's "Constitution" in the first place.


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## Solomon2

Developereo said:


> By that logic, we have the world's best Muslims in Pakistan.


I think that was his point. (He's Bangladeshi.)


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## Developereo

SarthakGanguly said:


> Is it mainly because the Army is by and large secular and Morsi was an Islamist and hence inconvenient?



There are lots of theories, half of them contradicting the other half.

I honestly don't know which ones to believe.



Solomon2 said:


> Military coup is very different from impeachment.



I know, which is why I asked the question in the first place.

You would want the matter resolved through proper Constitutional channels instead of a military coup in the US.

That is what I was asking and why you wouldn't want the same process in Egypt. Isn't impeachment one of the crown jewels of the democratic process and a useful lesson for burgeoning democracies to learn? That democracy is a self-correcting system and there is no need for external force.


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## RAW007

*Muslim Brotherhood site says Egypt&#8217;s new president is secretly Jewish.*
By Max Fisher, Published: July 5, 2013 at 11:02 am E-mail the writer


IkhwanOnline, the official Web site of Egypt&#8217;s Muslim Brotherhood, posted an article on Thursday asserting that the country&#8217;s new interim president, Adly Mansour, is secretly Jewish. The article, since taken offline, suggested that Mansour was part of an American and Israeli conspiracy to install Mohamed ElBaradei, a former U.N. official and Egyptian opposition figure, as president.
Mansour, the supreme justice of Egypt&#8217;s Supreme Constitutional Court, was sworn in as interim president on Thursday after the military announced that President Mohamed Morsi was no longer in charge. Morsi was a close ally of the Muslim Brotherhood, which has held large demonstrations protesting his ouster. That the Muslim Brotherhood would be suspicious of Mansour, and of the military that toppled Morsi to install him, is not surprising.

Still, the IkhwanOnline article suggests that some elements of the Muslim Brotherhood may be indulging in conspiracy theories that ignore their own role in public outrage about Morsi&#8217;s rule and may be promoting the anti-Semitic ideas that engendered so much international skepticism of their rule. There is no indication that there is any truth to the article.
The article cited as its source the purported Facebook page of an al-Jazeera Arabic broadcaster, although it&#8217;s not clear whether the Facebook page is real. The article claims that Mansour is &#8220;considered to be a Seventh Day Adventist, which is a Jewish sect&#8221; (in fact, Seventh Day Adventism is considered part of Protestant Christianity). It further claims that Mansour tried to convert to Christianity but was rebuffed by the Coptic pope, a major Egyptian religious figure, who supposedly refused to baptize him.
The article goes on to connect Mansour&#8217;s appointment as president to a global conspiracy involving the United States, Israel and Mohamed ElBaradei. According to a translation by the site MBInEnglish, which is run by Cairo-based journalists and dedicated to translating Brotherhood-penned articles into English, the article claimed that ElBaradei had refused to participate in a conference that denied the Holocaust. This, it says, was &#8220;a token gesture offered to the Jews by ElBaradei so that he can become President of the Republic in the fake elections that the military will guard and whose results they will falsify in their interests. All with the approval of America, Israel and the Arabs, of course.&#8221;
The article has since been removed, suggesting perhaps that someone in the Brotherhood had acknowledged the potential for criticism. It would be wrong to conclude from just this one article that the Muslim Brotherhood was retreating back into some of its worst habits: conspiracy theories, anti-Semitism, the insistence that no disagreement could be legitimate. But now that the group has been forced from power, this is a very real risk &#8212; not just for the group and its chances of regaining power, but for an Egyptian political system that is dangerously divided.

*Source: Washington Post.*


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## livingdead

how many jews are in egypt?


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## agentny17

They will get over it!! Don't call our revolution aganist facist Islamists a coup again please. People deman their basic human rights and if anybody can not accept that, they can can simply burn in hell.

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## Solomon2

Developereo said:


> You would want the matter resolved through proper Constitutional channels instead of a military coup in the US. That is what I was asking and why you wouldn't want the same process in Egypt. Isn't impeachment one of the crown jewels of the democratic process and a useful lesson for burgeoning democracies to learn?


It's a good point. Sorry I don't see the Egyptians here answering it - maybe because they see this as a "Turkish" thread - but there is a pretty easy answer in this case. The lower parliament, the House of Representatives that according to the Constitution runs the impeachment process, was dissolved by the courts last month and a new one wouldn't have been elected for months - assuming Morsi would have allowed its election to take place: link


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## Dr. Strangelove

this time i m with turkish gov.


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## iranigirl2

agentny17 said:


> They will get over it!! Don't call our revolution aganist facist Islamists a coup again please. People deman their basic human rights and if anybody can not accept that, they can can simply burn in hell.



*Syrian revolutionaries unhappy with Egyptians!*


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## iranigirl2

JEWS ARE BEHIND ALL EVIL ACTS !

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## livingdead

iranigirl2 said:


> JEWS ARE BEHIND ALL EVIL ACTS !



oh come on.. if you fall in love with a nice jewish boy.. are you not going to marry him..


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## iranigirl2

hinduguy said:


> oh come on.. if you fall in love with a nice jewish boy.. are you not going to marry him..



NO, THEY ARE EVIL!


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## faisal6309

"It is a Jewish conspiracy". 
A link always repeated by many people who hated Jews.

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## Gold1010

No one hates jews more then Cartman

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## Solomon2

iranigirl2 said:


> *Syrian revolutionaries unhappy with Egyptians!*


Yep. Ignored by the current U.S. Administration, generations of advocating bigotry over human and individual rights (all traceable to the Arab impulse to eliminate the Jewish presence in the Middle East) have brutalized the Syrians and eliminated any understanding of checks-and-balances among peoples who _think_ they know what democracy is about.


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## tesla

i dont believe this news


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## KingMamba

iranigirl2 said:


> JEWS ARE BEHIND ALL EVIL ACTS !



One must differentiate between Jews and Zionists.

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## Solomon2

KingMamba93 said:


> One must differentiate between Jews and Zionists.


Why bother, as anyone can be accused of being a "secret" Jew or "secret" Zionist and denied political rights, property, wealth, or life on that account?


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## hussain0216

He probably is a jew,


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## KingMamba

Solomon2 said:


> Why bother, as anyone can be accused of being a "secret" Jew or "secret" Zionist and denied political rights, property, wealth, or life on that account?



It is a shame that the lines have been blurred in the east.


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## Azizam



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## Dr. Strangelove

Jewish conspiracy again

so all of those millions of people were jews 

how many jews are there in egypt

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## A.Rafay

He is a jew probably!


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## Ceylal

Syrian Lion said:


> MB terrorists shoot each other to blame the Army...


Graphic..*.not for the lightly hearted*


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## hussain0216

Two faced as a rattle snake and untrustworthy

The guy is basically trying to jew the egyptian people out of their democracy


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## MooshMoosh

He is a Christian. Well after the military coup, Egyptian army demolished the Gaza tunnels, shut the Gaza-Rafah borders and reinforcement in Sinai (borders Israel) to fight the armed Bedouns so who does that please anyway?

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## pkuser2k12

he is not a jew but will kiss USA and Israels ***


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## Azizam

Seems like Egyptian people did the right thing. Although I generally oppose revolutions but this seems like a good decision. A responsible political party should not issue such ridiculous statements.


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## Ceylal

MooshMoosh said:


> You are the only smartest user in here when discussions about this and the ME. May Allah swt help the* AKP* against the Western backed protesters and secular oppositions.


My deepest sympathies MooshMoosh for your loss...The AKP will join the Egyptian MB soon..


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## MooshMoosh

Ceylal said:


> Graphic..*.not for the lightly hearted*


There was a pro Islamist protest in Cairo or Mansour, Alexandria, Sinai and Republician Guard's HQ.


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## MooshMoosh

Ceylal said:


> My deepest sympathies MooshMoosh for your loss...The AKP will join the Egyptian MB soon..


No. AKP and MB are different, one is sucessful and the other wasn't but both have one thing in common, Islamist.


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## pkuser2k12

*THREAD SOURCE IS UNVERIFIED AND FALSE​*







This is the main web page from where blogger translated 

*can some Arabic kindly see if he translated correctly*​


*IT IS NOT VERIFIED AND SOURCE IS FACEBOOK PAGE WHICH BLOGGER SAYS CANT BE VERIFIED AS TRUE BUT HE STILL POSTS IT*




*Muslim Brotherhood site says Egypts new president is secretly Jewish​*By Max Fisher, Published: July 5, 2013 at 11:02 am

IkhwanOnline, the official Web site of Egypts Muslim Brotherhood, posted an article on Thursday asserting that the countrys new interim president, Adly Mansour, is secretly Jewish. *The article, since taken offline, suggested that Mansour was part of an American and Israeli conspiracy to install Mohamed ElBaradei*, a former U.N. official and Egyptian opposition figure, as president.

Mansour, the supreme justice of Egypts Supreme Constitutional Court, was sworn in as interim president on Thursday after the military announced that President Mohamed Morsi was no longer in charge. Morsi was a close ally of the Muslim Brotherhood, which has held large demonstrations protesting his ouster. That the Muslim Brotherhood would be suspicious of Mansour, and of the military that toppled Morsi to install him, is not surprising.

Still, the IkhwanOnline article suggests that some elements of the Muslim Brotherhood may be indulging in conspiracy theories that ignore their own role in public outrage about Morsis rule and may be promoting the anti-Semitic ideas that engendered so much international skepticism of their rule. There is no indication that there is any truth to the article.

*The article cited as its source the purported Facebook page of an al-Jazeera Arabic broadcaster, although its not clear whether the Facebook page is real.* The article claims that Mansour is considered to be a Seventh Day Adventist, which is a Jewish sect (in fact, Seventh Day Adventism is considered part of Protestant Christianity). It further claims that Mansour tried to convert to Christianity but was rebuffed by the Coptic pope, a major Egyptian religious figure, who supposedly refused to baptize him.

The article goes on to connect Mansours appointment as president to a global conspiracy involving the United States, Israel and Mohamed ElBaradei. According to a translation by the site MBInEnglish, which is run by Cairo-based journalists and dedicated to translating Brotherhood-penned articles into English, the article claimed that ElBaradei had refused to participate in a conference that denied the Holocaust. This, it says, was a token gesture offered to the Jews by ElBaradei so that he can become President of the Republic in the fake elections that the military will guard and whose results they will falsify in their interests. All with the approval of America, Israel and the Arabs, of course.

The article has since been removed, suggesting perhaps that someone in the Brotherhood had acknowledged the potential for criticism. It would be wrong to conclude from just this one article that the Muslim Brotherhood was retreating back into some of its worst habits: conspiracy theories, anti-Semitism, the insistence that no disagreement could be legitimate. But now that the group has been forced from power, this is a very real risk  not just for the group and its chances of regaining power, but for an Egyptian political system that is dangerously divided.


*SOURCE:*

*Washington post blogs*

Muslim Brotherhood site says Egypts new president is secretly Jewish


@WebMaster 
@Oscar

RAW007 is posting blogs whose sources are even not confirmed by write kindly close this thread

he has not provided link for this thread as i have posted original blog above unverified by blogger himself and neither the following thread on PDF

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/262447-policeman-killed-attack-peshawar-church.html


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## Ceylal

BlueWarrior said:


> This is sad, a democrate president who barely controlled the country for a year and now toppled by the general shows that *democracy failed* in Egypt.


Democracy didn't fail in Egypt, it never existed. Morsi was ejected because of the will of the Egyptian. 30 million protestors can't be ignored. In a democracy, Morsi would have resigned, the army didn't have a choice but to depose him and install a transition leader to organize new elections. 
Anyway, political Islam has shown its limit. You can't feed and employ egyptian with a sharia meal. Egyptian society is already deeply devout , she doesn't need another dose of Bronze age Islam...They clamor for work, habitat, equality, something Morsi could not deliver.


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## pkuser2k12

Azizam said:


> Seems like Egyptian people did the right thing. Although I generally oppose revolutions but this seems like a good decision. A responsible political party should not issue such ridiculous statements.




it is unverified and a lie see my previous post it is a blog who quoted the source as facebook page and says it is unverified source


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## Ceylal

Zarvan said:


> Will off ALLAH is involved in everything but this can be due to major sins of Egyptian people which led to the ouster of a good man and don't worry soon Islamists would be back if not brother hood than the salafists in Egypt but seculars life would be soon turned into* living hell*


Egyptian army and the Egyptian security apparatus are very well oiled and equipped to deal with any armed rebellion of the brothers. Egyptians nailed political Islam coffin for good and their action will have a big repercution on the countries were Islamist got elected due to the arab spring.! Egyptiens *Un grand Bravo* for your accomplishment!

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## babajees

Ceylal said:


> Democracy didn't fail in Egypt, it never existed. Morsi was ejected because of the will of the Egyptian. 30 million protestors can't be ignored. In a democracy, Morsi would have resigned, the army didn't have a choice but to depose him and install a transition leader to organize new elections.
> Anyway, political Islam has shown its limit. You can't feed and employ egyptian with a sharia meal. Egyptian society is already deeply devout , she doesn't need another dose of Bronze age Islam...They clamor for work, habitat, equality, something Morsi could not deliver.



30 million demonstraters? Are u out of ur @ss?? 

Morsi got more than 60 million votes.. 

And if u want to see some protest. Tune in right now to Al jazeera.. Millions and millions of proesters chanting "shoot at us.. kill us.. we are no longer scared of you" after Army shot more than 16 ppl and injured many!

Fake liberals who support democracy elsewhere but army in #egypt, shame on you. How much time did you give morsi (barely 1 yr) vs 30 yrs to hosni mubarak..

Don't forget, egyptian army is number 2 in terms of military aid adter Israel from uncle sam!!


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## babajees

Ceylal said:


> Egyptian army and the Egyptian security apparatus are very well oiled and equipped to deal with any armed rebellion of the brothers. Egyptians nailed political Islam coffin for good and their action will have a big repercution on the countries were Islamist got elected due to the arab spring.! Egyptiens *Un grand Bravo* for your accomplishment!



Yeah they nailed it so good.. after 60 yrs of torture etc, MB still came.out on top! Got a HUGE HUGE majority! Only way American allied army though they can get rid of muslims qas through another coup.. shame


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## Mahmoud_EGY

babajees said:


> 30 million demonstraters? Are u out of ur @ss??
> 
> Morsi got more than 60 million votes..
> 
> And if u want to see some protest. Tune in right now to Al jazeera.. Millions and millions of proesters chanting "shoot at us.. kill us.. we are no longer scared of you" after Army shot more than 16 ppl and injured many!
> 
> Fake liberals who support democracy elsewhere but army in #egypt, shame on you. How much time did you give morsi (barely 1 yr) vs 30 yrs to hosni mubarak..
> 
> Don't forget, egyptian army is number 2 in terms of military aid adter Israel from uncle sam!!


?????60 million 
he got 5 in first round 13 in the second just not to bring former regime


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## Ceylal

> Originally Posted by Jamaal Yelmaaz
> 4- and one of the main reason that makes me too anxious is TIMING. Timing of toppling MB is terrible for the FSA and other opponents that fighting againist Assad regime..That military coup *could break morale* of FSA ...


Their carnage speaks volume about their moral..it is their morality that need a dose of humanity..


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## BLACKEAGLE

People get to understand that it's not Islam vs Secularism as the MB are trying to show it. Not every Muslim with a beard is a good guy. Afterall, it's not like other Arab leaders and their people are not Muslims. Ousting the MB was definitely a good thing not only for Egypt but also for all Arab countries. As for what would happen to Egypt will only be decided by Egyptians themselves, whether they choose to go ahead with development or just keep fighting till things get worse god forbid.



MooshMoosh said:


> No. AKP and MB are different, one is sucessful and the other wasn't but both have one thing in common, Islamist.



So, you were saying king Abdullah of Jordan would get ousted by Islamists..What happened?

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## Ceylal

RAMPAGE said:


> the brotherhood's blood has been shed for decades now. *Inshallah brotherhood will be back *



Fat chance...We all witnessed its funerals...Bravo Egypt!



Aeronaut said:


> *Brotherhood supporters amassing *in Cairo??



Futile...That boat sailed.


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## Solomon2

After Morsi: 6 thoughts on the ouster of an undemocratic, elected president

American hesitancy, the Brotherhoods extreme anti-Semitism, and how the short-lived leader was the architect of his own downfall

By DAVID HOROVITZ July 4, 2013, 3:52 pm 





Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi addresses the nation in a televised speech on Tuesday, July 2. (photo credit: AP Photo/Egyptian State Television)​As the Arab Spring moves via the Islamist Winter into the Unpredictable Summer, six thoughts on the ouster of Egypts president and its possible repercussions.

*1. Elections do not equal democracy*

In case anyone needed reminding, true democracy involves a great deal more than elections, even relatively free elections like those that brought Mohammed Morsi to power. A genuine, thriving, stable democracy requires the protection of a range of rights and freedoms, not just a one-time opportunity to cast a ballot. These include freedom to vote your conscience without fear of the consequences, true freedom to speak your mind, access to diverse and uncensored media, minority rights under majority rule, freedom of religion and of assembly, and a great deal more.

Egypt had hardly begun the process of transition to such an era, and Morsi did not accept many of democracys imperatives. Now this vast, failing country is back to square one, with the nondemocratic ouster of an undemocratic, elected president.

*2. Americas incoherence*

It is striking, however, that the world power best qualified  in terms of its influence, its financial clout, and its moral standing  to at least try to signal a path that would lead to long-term democracy has become so marginal to what began as the Arab Spring. The United States chose not to support the brief, brave push for freedom in Iran in 2009; it has tried to keep out of the ongoing slaughter in Syria; it opted to encourage the ouster of Hosni Mubarak in 2011 and sought to delude itself about the anti-democratic, Islamist nature of the Muslim Brotherhood. And it appears simply to have thrown up its hands in self-assumed impotence at the events of the last few days, sending incoherent messages that few are even bothering to try to interpret.

It makes for a sorry coincidence, at a time when the United States is rightly celebrating its own independence, that it today seems so hesitant in helping those who seek to chart the complex course to similar freedom in the Arab world.

*3. Meanwhile, in Gaza
*
The Israel-Hamas ceasefire that concluded last Novembers Operation Pillar of Defense was brokered by Egyptian foreign minister Kamel Amr. Amr tendered his resignation to president Morsi earlier this week. Now Morsi has gone too, and with him, for now, his Islamist regime. The Islamist Hamas, by contrast, is very much here, in charge, running Gaza. Morsi, the duly elected president of Egypt, was overthrown in good part because of the will and guts of the Egyptian people. What does it say about the will and guts of the Palestinians in Gaza that Hamas, which took control in a violent coup against an elected Palestinian president, still so firmly retains its hold?

*4. Worse than Morsi*

Mohammed Morsi is an anti-Semite who, before the West was looking at him closely, publicly castigated Israelis as these blood-suckers, who attack the Palestinians, these warmongers, the descendants of apes and pigs and said, of Jews, They have been fanning the flames of civil strife wherever they were throughout history. So entrenched is his anti-Semitism that even in meetings, as president, with American politicians whom he had every interest in cultivating, he proved unable to restrain himself from issuing utterances so viciously hostile to Jews, I am told on excellent authority, that his polite US guests came close to walking out on him. And Morsi (who restored Egypts ambassador to Israel), it is widely and credibly asserted, is far from the most extreme voice when it comes to the leadership ranks of the Brotherhood.

Morsis ouster notwithstanding, the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is anything but finished. It mustered the support of half the country in elections, and retains the support of a goodly proportion of those voters. Nobody should be laboring under the delusion that widespread Islamist-led incitement against Israel is likely to recede with Morsis departure.

*5. Israels continuing solid ties with the Egyptian army*

While the Brotherhood strategizes on how to respond to the coup against its president  violent opposition, or a more gracious approach that could yet enable it to regain the leadership  the fear is that Egypt will now be torn between Islamist forces on the one hand, and a revived, nationalist, neo-Nasserist mentality. Neither of these camps, needless to say, is well-disposed to Israel. Strikingly, indeed, it is the Egyptian army that has maintained what Israeli security officials openly acknowledge is a well-coordinated relationship with Israel, even over the past year of the Morsi government. The hope in Israel is that this quietly effective relationship can be preserved, and the armys legitimacy maintained in the eyes of the Egyptian masses, even as Egypt again finds itself plunged into revolutionary crisis.

*6. Appointing the man who brought him down*





Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi speaking on state television, July 3. (Screenshot: Egypt State Television/ AP)​
Irans Islamists cemented their hold on power after ousting the shah by taking firm control of the armed forces. In Turkey, Recep Tayyip Erdogan has long been engaged in a similar process, ousting and jailing generals, and replacing them with loyalists or intimidated nonentities. If Mohammad Morsi now finds himself with time on his hands for reflection, he might consider that one of his less astute moves was his appointment as military chief, just 10 months ago, of one Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi.


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## Imran Khan

news is they beaten solders on streets too ?


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## hussain0216

This hasent destroyed the Muslim brotherhood its has empowered and enabled it

In Pakistan one of the major problems was military coups, you had poor governments who were terrible for the country but because of repeated military coups the rubbish politicians just claimed that they could not govern and if had not been for the coup they would have succeeded in fixing the country

They were of course lying but this is the excuse they used

If the idiot liberals in Egypt had just allowed democracy to reign the brotherhood had 4 years to either flourish or screw up

If they screwed up then the would not be voted for thel liberals then could rule in peace


instInstead you have made the Muslim brotherhood into MARTYRS

They are now the just, the wronged, the deposed

Instead of liberal idiots ruling in peace they have the military in controle

The muslim brother's will now haunt them at every step, the poor of egypt I.e the majority will get countless brotherhood speeches and because Egypt is economically screwed the situation of the poor will get worse


So you haven't buried the muslim brotherhood instead you have set youeself up to fall


Ramadan is the time for the brotherhood to go protest crazy


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## Solomon2

Imran Khan said:


> news is they beaten solders on streets too ?


Yah, the _Telegraph_ has a video of the M-B attacking: link [h/t: EoZ]


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## Imran Khan

Solomon2 said:


> Yah, the _Telegraph_ has a video of the M-B attacking: link [h/t: EoZ]



so its starting lose of uniform in egypt ?????? next step armed attacks by islamists ?


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## Solomon2

hussain0216 said:


> If the idiot liberals in Egypt had just allowed democracy to reign the brotherhood had 4 years to either flourish or screw up
> If they screwed up then the would not be voted for thel liberals then could rule in peace


That assumes the M-B wouldn't follow the one-man-one-vote-once path of most tyrannical rulers.



> Instead of liberal idiots ruling in peace they have the military in controle


That's the danger.



> Egypt is economically screwed the situation of the poor will get worse


Better to have Egypt under control of people who will suffer with the rest of the populace rather than those who would take the money and run, yes? As it happens, with this coup the aid taps will start flowing again. Yet that's not enough to pull Egypt out of its quagmire. I don't have the answers; I hope the Egyptians find some.



Imran Khan said:


> so its starting lose of uniform in egypt ?????? next step armed attacks by islamists ?


If al-Qaradawi doesn't say otherwise in the next day or two, I think terror in Egypt is a "given".

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## Ceylal

babajees said:


> 30 million demonstraters? Are u out of ur @ss??


mine is fine, it is yours I am worry about...Did you get it reamed enough to fit an IED ? If not, my well endowed african neighbors will hepl you achieve that goal.



> Morsi got more than 60 million votes..


 only 25% of the population voted, hardly 60 millions



> And if u want to see some protest. Tune in right now to Al jazeera.. Millions and millions of proesters chanting "shoot at us.. kill us.. we are no longer scared of you" after Army shot more than 16 ppl and injured many!


The street has spoken...She didn't want Morsi!

[quote[Fake liberals who support democracy elsewhere but army in #egypt, shame on you. How much time did you give morsi (barely 1 yr) vs 30 yrs to hosni mubarak..[/quote]
Egyptian Army is a republican, her main objectif is to protect the State of Egypt, its constitution and is governed by the will of the people from which it derives its manpower and strength. The Egyptian people has spoken and it acted to restore order and legality.
Moubarek was a dictator, un army high ranking when the army was running Egypt. It is not the case today, the army didn't take the power, or placed one of their own at the helm of Egypt, they put an Judge who is known to all Egyptian for his work, to organize new elections...



> Don't forget, egyptian army is number 2 in terms of military aid adter Israel from uncle sam!!



What is your point?


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## Sedqal

> Military helicopters entertained the throng of Egyptians, repeatedly flying over the square with national flags suspended from each cockpit.



Army is really rubbing it in - are they planning to excite MB enough for a violent backlash so Army can declare emergency?


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## hussain0216

No egyptians are idiots after one year they think mursi should have given them jobs and paved the roads with gold and fixed decades of mismanagement

That too with the backdrop of state institutions opposing them, the army and liberal elite against them and countless constant demonstrations

The same with Pakistan they need to ACCEPT that there will BE A DECADE OF PAIN AT LEAST before they see improvements

The army and liberal scum in power now won't or can't bring egyptians immediate relief the lack of jobs, lackbof money and poverty will all increase

The frustration will all increase

The muslim brotherhood will just need to oppose the process keep demonstrating USE RAMADAN to bring the people out

Because the MB have not had a chance to rule their return is guaranteed


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## Cheetah786

CAIRO  Islamist supporters of Mohamed Morsi, Egypts ousted president, held enormous demonstrations in Cairo on Friday, and thousands of them angrily confronted security forces guarding the compound where he was believed to be held. Witnesses said at least five demonstrators were killed by gunfire. 

Many others were wounded in the confrontation, but the precise casualty toll was unclear. Reporters heard multiple volleys of gunshots and saw blood on the streets and demonstrators nursing what appeared to be birdshot wounds. Large numbers of soldiers, rifles at the ready, were perched behind sandbagged barricades in front of the Republican Guard barracks, ringed by barbed wire and believed to be housing Mr. Morsi. The smell of tear gas hung in the air.

Wheres Morsi? Wheres Morsi? angry demonstrators screamed, shaking their shoes in disrespect at military helicopters circling them. Many of the Morsi loyalists spoke of martyrdom and said they would not leave the streets until their leader was freed and restored to office, raising the possibility of further violence and a prolonged standoff.

Everyone here is ready to die, said a demonstrator who identified himself as Mohamed Ismael, a 41-year-old veterinarian.

Video uploaded on YouTube showed what appeared to be one dead protester on the street. Al Jazeera television reported that the army had denied its soldiers opened fire on protesters and had said the soldiers were armed only with blank cartridges and tear gas.

The demonstrations were organized by the Muslim Brotherhood and its allies to express their outrage over the ouster and arrest of Mr. Morsi, an Islamist and Egypts first freely elected president. He was in power for only a year. Since he was forced out by military commanders Wednesday evening, security forces have arrested dozens of senior Muslim Brotherhood members and shut down its television stations in a widening crackdown. 

An interim president installed by the military, the former chief justice of the Supreme Constitutional Court, Adli Mansour, took a further step on Friday to disempower the vestiges of Mr. Morsis government by formally dissolving the Shura Council, the countrys only operating house of Parliament, which had been dominated by the Islamists. The constitutional court had disbanded the lower house last year, one of many challenges Mr. Morsi had faced in his troubled tenure.

Egypts military commanders have justified the ouster of Mr. Morsi by saying they felt compelled to bring the country back together after millions of Egyptians demonstrated against him, claiming he had arrogated power, neglected the economy and worsened divisions in society.

Early on Friday, in a sign of the potential resistance to the new order, armed Islamists struck at four security force positions in the restive Sinai Peninsula, killing one soldier and wounding two in a rocket attack on a police post in Rafah on the border with Gaza Strip, according to news reports that quoted security officials. Separate rocket attacks were said to have been aimed at military checkpoints at El Arish airport in Sinai.

The Associated Press quoted an Egyptian official as saying the border crossing to the Gaza Strip had been closed indefinitely.

In an apparent show of force, military jets howled over the capital, Cairo, for a second day on Friday, leaving streams of smoke in the red, white and black colors of the national flag. By midday, few protesters appeared to have gathered in Tahrir Square  a focal point of anti-Morsi dissent earlier this week.

At the same time, the militarys move against Mr. Morsi, which has drawn a mixed regional response, seems to have created a degree of isolation within the broader African continent. News reports said the African Union, the Pan-African representative body based in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, resolved to suspend Egypt from all its activities in line with rules on the interruption of constitutional rule. 

In an apparent show of force, military jets howled over the capital, Cairo, for a second day on Friday, leaving streams of smoke in the red, white and black colors of the national flag. By midday, few protesters appeared to have gathered in Tahrir Square  a focal point of anti-Morsi dissent earlier this week. 

At the same time, the militarys move against Mr. Morsi, which has drawn a mixed regional response, seems to have created a degree of isolation within the broader African continent. News reports said the African Union, the Pan-African representative body based in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, resolved to suspend Egypt from all its activities in line with rules on the interruption of constitutional rule.

It was already clear by late Thursday that the forced change of power, which had the trappings of a military coup spurred by a popular revolt, had only aggravated the most seething division in Egypt  that between the Muslim Brotherhood and the security apparatus built up by Hosni Mubarak, the president toppled in Egypts 2011 revolution.

On Thursday, in a stately ceremony in the countrys highest court, Mr. Mansour was sworn in as the new acting head of state. He said he looked forward to parliamentary and presidential elections that would express the true will of the people. Mr. Mansour praised the militarys intervention so that Egypt could correct the path of its glorious revolution.

At the same time, security forces held Mr. Morsi incommunicado, Islamist broadcast outlets were closed and prosecutors sought the arrest of hundreds of Mr. Morsis Brotherhood colleagues, in a sign that they had the most to lose.

What kind of national reconciliation starts with arresting people? asked Ebrahem el-Erian after security officials came to his family home before dawn to try to arrest his father, Essam el-Erian, a Brotherhood official. This is complete exclusion. 

Many of the most significant political shifts pointed to the reassertion of the deep state, a term often used for the powerful branches of the Mubarak-era government that remained in place after he had been deposed.

Much of that state apparatus has always shown deep distrust of Mr. Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood, despite their victories in parliamentary and presidential elections.

Mr. Morsi never succeeded in asserting his control over the military, the security services, the judiciary or the sprawling state bureaucracy. Nor was he able to dismantle the support network that Mr. Mubarak and his National Democratic Party cultivated through nearly 30 years in power.

So once the military removed Mr. Morsi, many of these elements set their sights on him and his group.

What do you call it when the police, state security, old members of the National Democratic Party, the media all rally to bring down the regime? asked Emad Shahin, a political science professor at the American University in Cairo. Is that a revolution? If this is the revolution, so be it.

In his swearing-in address, Mr. Mansour offered an olive branch to the Islamists, saying they were part of Egyptian society and deserved to participate in the political process. The National Salvation Front, an umbrella opposition group that had pushed for Mr. Morsis ouster, also called for inclusive politics.

But in less than 24 hours after the militarys intervention, prosecutors issued arrest warrants for at least 200 Islamists, most members of the Muslim Brotherhood. All were wanted on accusations of incitement to kill demonstrators.

The arrest campaign recalled the Muslim Brotherhoods decades as a banned organization under autocratic rulers.

This is a police state back in action, and the same faces that were ousted with the Mubarak regime are now appearing on talk shows as analysts, said a Brotherhood spokesman, Gehad el-Haddad, during an interview with Al Jazeeras English satellite channel. 

He repeated a conspiracy theory often cited by Islamists: what appeared to be an easing of electricity cuts and fuel shortages in recent days indicated that the shortfalls had been artificially created to feed discontent. 

Did someone push a magic button, or was this all part of a plot? Mr. Haddad asked.

Much remains unclear about the new political structure that will emerge, though Mohamed ElBaradei, the Nobel Prize-winning diplomat, has been chosen to represent the liberal opposition.

In a telephone interview, Mr. ElBaradei sought to justify the militarys intervention, calling it a chance to fix the transition to democracy that he said had gone off track after the ouster of Mr. Mubarak.

We just lost two and a half years, he said. As Yogi Berra said, It is déjà vu all over again, but hopefully this time we will get it right.

He also defended the arrests of Islamists, saying he had been assured that they would receive due process and that the shuttered television outlets had incited violence.

I would be the first one to shout loud and clearly if I see any sign of regression in terms of democracy, he said. In a sign that the anti-Morsi backlash may have overreached, a Mubarak-appointed prosecutor general, Abdel Meguid Mahmoud, who had been dismissed by Mr. Morsi and was among those reinstated to his office on Thursday, resigned less than 24 hours later, apparently sensitive to the appearance of engaging in political retaliation.

In a statement reported by Ahram Online, Mr. Mahmoud said he had decided to resign to avoid the embarrassment of making judicial decisions against those who removed me from office.

On Thursday Mr. Mahmoud, who was equally detested by critics of Mr. Mubarak and Mr. Morsi, called his return to office a message for every ruler: You must respect your judiciary, and you must respect your judges.

The pre-Morsi foreign minister, Mohamed Kamel Amr, was also back in the post on Thursday. Mr. Amr had continued to serve under Mr. Morsi but had been sidelined as Mr. Morsi sent other aides to meetings with President Obama and other officials, and he resigned during Mr. Morsis final days, a major blow.

Mr. Amr held a series of meetings with the foreign news media on Thursday aimed at refuting the idea that Egypt had undergone a military coup. He also laughed about his relationship with Mr. Morsi, suggesting that he had given his foreign counterparts his own view of Egypts affairs.

I was presenting the true picture of his country to the outside world, he said. I dont mean to be blowing my own horn, but I believe that was respected by my counterparts.

Even the police force, much despised by Mr. Mubaraks opponents for trying to quash the protests that pushed him from power, has sought to portray itself as standing with the people in the new era. 

Fahmy Bahgat, an officer who often speaks for the security services, said in a television interview that the generals move returned the police to the arms of the people once more.

He also threatened those who challenged the new order.

Whoever tries to show any support for the ousted president will be met with the utmost resolve, he said.

The prospect of confrontation raised international concern. Navi Pillay, the top United Nations human rights official, said in a statement from Geneva that a concerted effort is needed by all parties to establish sound political and legal institutions.

There should be no more violence, no arbitrary detention, no illegal acts of retribution, she said. Serious steps should also be taken to halt, and investigate, the appalling  and at times seemingly organized  sexual violence targeting women protesters. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/06/world/middleeast/egypt.html?pagewanted=3&_r=0&hp


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## hussain0216

Dont underestimate the Ramadan effect

The Muslims will be in the mosques, fasting and praying

This is the time for the Muslim brotherhood to act

Make Egypt ungovernable, don't give the liberal scum any peace


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## T-123456

So,the jews again huh?



hinduguy said:


> oh come on.. if you fall in love with a nice jewish boy.. are you not going to marry him..


good one!


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## Armstrong

T-123456 said:


> So,the jews again huh?
> 
> 
> good one!



Well Morsi should've been booted out because he did support Galatasaray !  

Had he supported Fenerbahce....I would've considered otherwise !


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## T-123456

iranigirl2 said:


> NO, THEY ARE EVIL!


And what if he said he was muslim(shia offcourse)untill you fell in love with him?


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## T-123456

Armstrong said:


> Well Morsi should've been booted out because he did support Galatasaray !
> 
> Had he supported Fenerbahce....I would've considered otherwise !


You again?
The Turkish Navy bought two new state of the art rowing boats(red and yellow) with one paddle on each boat.
One boat for you and the other for your friend Neptune.
We have arranged for Hazal Kaya(Somalian pirats) to welcome you in somalia(if you ever reach that far).
Good luck!

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## Armstrong

T-123456 said:


> You again?
> The Turkish Navy bought two new state of the art rowing boats(red and yellow) with one paddle on each boat.
> One boat for you and the other for your friend Neptune.
> We have arranged for Hazal Kaya(Somalian pirats) to welcome you in somalia(if you ever reach that far).
> Good luck!



Yes its me again... @Deno made me an Honorary Turk as I made her an Honorary Pakistani which means I can butt-in whenever & wherever I want when it comes to Turkey !  

I dunno if @Neptune is such a good swimmer; the last time we swam he ended up being taken under the water by a Sealion after it has seen @Neptune 's cute butt & the rest I can't tell otherwise he'd ban me !

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## BLACKEAGLE

I got this one from a source and I can trust him, as Egyptian officials especially military generals have been warning Egyptians from serious plots, there are plans to divide Egypt into three countries, this was taken by hackers from Egyptian intelligence website.

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## Desertfalcon

Well, one thing, this fake charge is yet one more example of why the MB fell out of favor with the Egyptian people.


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## T-123456

Developereo said:


> Impeachment by the appropriate authorities (House of Reps?).
> 
> If the protesters were truly representative of Egyptian society at large, they could have pressured their local rep to start impeachment proceedings.
> 
> If there was mass dissatisfaction with Obama, would you advocate a military coup or impeachment?


The problem in most countries where democracy has no place(ME)is that after they get elected democraticly,they try to change the country into an authoritarian islamist regime.
They think its the will of the people.
And that is the problem,you cannot change from democracy into undemocratical governance without consequences.
Example,Erdogan tried(still trying)it in Turkey.

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## livingdead

BLACKEAGLE said:


> I got this one from a source and I can trust him, as Egyptian officials especially military generals have been warning Egyptians from serious plots, there are plans to divide Egypt into three countries, this was taken by hackers from Egyptian intelligence website.



what are the names... coptistan ... arabistan (lower egypt) and nubiastan (upper egypt)


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## L@eeq

BLACKEAGLE said:


> I got this one from a source and I can trust him, as Egyptian officials especially military generals have been warning Egyptians from serious plots, there are plans to divide Egypt into three countries, this was taken by hackers from Egyptian intelligence website.



and when you talk about these things. .. they will call you a conspiracy theorist ........


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## BLACKEAGLE

hinduguy said:


> what are the names... coptistan ... arabistan (lower egypt) and nubiastan (upper egypt)



This plan will never see light as long as Egyptians army exist, and indeed it's a powerful one that can be counted on in protecting Egypt. Pls, Egyptian fate is tied with our countries fates (especially Jordan, Sudan and GCC), yet, they will not sit and watch this happening.


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## fallstuff

RAMPAGE said:


> "Truth got to be said, Dr Muhammed Morsi (ex-Egyptian president) is:
> 
> 1) The first elected Arab president.
> 
> 2) first civil president
> 
> 3) first Arab president that memorised the whole Quran of by heart.
> 
> 4) first Arab president thats from an Islamic party.
> 
> 5) first Arab president that allows people to criticise him, theres over 30 channels in Egypt that insults him day and night.
> 
> 6) first president that shakes hand with his previous prison guard.
> 
> 7) first Arab president that forbids putting up his pictures in government buildings. first Arab president that lives in a rented apartment and receives a normal wage just like any other Egyptian.
> 
> 9) first Arab president that takes his family out on holidays on his own costs.
> 
> History will judge for Morsi, whether he had mistakes or not, he is by far the best Arab leader in our time, compare him to any other leader and you will know for your self. Its not like as if he stole the peoples money and put it in his pocket."



How you know all these? Can you source: your claim?
It would be refreshing to see a guy actually willing to serve the people.

If he's too honest he might Have p*** off a lot of people. 

Sharia thing seems like a hogwash.


----------



## livingdead

BLACKEAGLE said:


> This plan will never see light as long as Egyptians army exist, and indeed it's a powerful one that can be counted on in protecting Egypt. Pls, Egyptian fate is tied with our countries fates (especially Jordan, Sudan and GCC), yet, they will not sit and watch this happening.



if iraq with clear division within people cannot be divided, how can egypt be divided, for division, you need people to agree. This is not ww2 era.


----------



## T-123456

BLACKEAGLE said:


> I got this one from a source and I can trust him, as Egyptian officials especially military generals have been warning Egyptians from serious plots, there are plans to divide Egypt into three countries, this was taken by hackers from Egyptian intelligence website.


Three countries as in,no more info?


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## Kompromat

Three killed


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## BLACKEAGLE

L@eeq said:


> and when you talk about these things. .. they will call you a conspiracy theorist ........



Actually, people over exaggerate believing in conspiracy theories, which makes others more hesitant to believe in them. However, not everything is a conspiracy theory. It's no secret that Egypt is targeted as it's one of the most important country in the ME. I don't deny that the West and other countries have designs that suit their best interests. And our response shouldn't be going nuts at them, but rather following our own interests regardless of they think, they play and we play.



T-123456 said:


> Three countries as in,no more info?



It's just a plot, and no I don't have more info about it.



hinduguy said:


> if iraq with clear division within people cannot be divided, how can egypt be divided, for division, you need people to agree. This is not ww2 era.



Actually, Iraq is divided, not necessarily in terms of geography though. They destroyed it, and made sure that Iraq won't rise again for a long time.


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## fallstuff

Has anyone read the new constitutuin?


----------



## Ahiska

Oh look all of Turkeys haters are together in this thread.
First we have Assads little helpers who likes dictators.
Then we have Iranians who are most likely persian fascists and want to make turkey stand alone so they could become the regional power.
I have a good idea why dont you alawai and persians look for an island where you are alone and can act like a bigshot instead of critizing Turkey in every thread.
And to all Turks who says erdogan says it because he almost had the same fate every other party also says it is unacceptable.

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## Jihad_

Big clashes going on. Army doesnt intervene. Decision to give more power to army?

Al Jazeera English  Live News Streaming


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## Imran Khan

Jihad_ said:


> Big clashes going on. Army doesnt intervene. Decision to give more power to army?
> 
> Al Jazeera English &#8211; Live News Streaming



same old tactics of early 50s dictators


----------



## Hugo Rafael

Hello to all people,

It is a pleasure and honor to exchanging words and opinions whit all of yours in special with members or sympathizers of the countries unaligned struggling against imperialism.

here is a sad situation, I hope everything is fixed for the good of the people

Sorry for my bad english


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## Luffy 500

agentny17 said:


> They will get over it!! Don't call our revolution aganist facist Islamists a coup again please. People deman their basic human rights and if anybody can not accept that, they can can simply burn in hell.



A mob of facist and army takeover of a democratically elected pres. is a coup in the simplest possible terms. MB and islamist are also part of egypt. The quicker facist seculars & copts realize this the better. Fanatic kelamism couldn't stop the rise of islamist in turkey.


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## Sedqal

Hugo Rafael said:


> Hello to all people,
> 
> It is a pleasure and honor to exchanging words and opinions whit all of yours in special with members or sympathizers of the countries unaligned struggling against imperialism.
> 
> here is a sad situation, I hope everything is fixed for the good of the people
> 
> Sorry for my bad english



Thanks for the good wishes and welcome to the forum.

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## Serpentine

Ahiska said:


> Oh look all of Turkeys haters are together in this thread.
> First we have Assads little helpers who likes dictators.
> Then we have Iranians who are most likely persian fascists and want to make turkey stand alone so they could become the regional power.
> I have a good idea why dont you alawai and persians look for an island where you are alone and can act like a bigshot instead of critizing Turkey in every thread.
> And to all Turks who says erdogan says it because he almost had the same fate every other party also says it is unacceptable.



Ok calm down buddy,you are getting too hot.
1.Everyone can criticize whatever he likes,as long as he/she doesn't insult.Many agreed with Morsi,many opposed him, so stop handpicking only Iranians here.
2.The same way almost all Turkish member criticize Iran, every Iranian also has the same right, no one can blame any side.
3.I don't blame Turkish government as an Iranian, that's their opinion which is closer to MB, let Turkish people judge their government.


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## Ahiska

Era_923 said:


> Ok calm down buddy,you are getting too hot.
> 1.Everyone can criticize whatever he likes,as long as he/she doesn't insult.Many agreed with Morsi,many opposed him, so stop handpicking only Iranians here.
> 2.The same way almost all Turkish member criticize Iran, every Iranian also has the same right, no one can blame any side.
> 3.I don't blame Turkish government as an Iranian, that's their opinion which is closer to MB, let Turkish people judge their government.


Iranian Trolls started it like iaji or whatever his name was or Scythian they always look for a way to insult Turks and Turkics.

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## Ceylal

babajees said:


> Yeah they nailed it so good.. after 60 yrs of torture etc, MB still came.out on top! Got a HUGE HUGE majority! Only way *American allied army* though they can get rid of muslims qas through another coup.. shame


Your assessement is wrong..Us policy always backed Islamist since the invasion of Afghanistan by the soviet. What happened in Egypt the last couple of days is 100% Egyptian! The Egyptian street spoke...and that is that...


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## Serpentine

Ahiska said:


> Iranian Trolls started it like iaji or whatever his name was or Scythian they always look for a way to insult Turks and Turkics.


lajj is not an Iranian, he is a Chinese who by chance, hates Turks and Indians.Please don't generalize act of one single member to a whole nation.


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## Ahiska

Era_923 said:


> lajj is not an Iranian, he is a Chinese who by chance, hates Turks and Indians.Please don't generalize act of one single member to a whole nation.


Im long in this forum i know that there also was an iranian iaji before he got banned.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Egypts armed forces chief told Saudi Arabias King Abdullah on Friday that the situation in Egypt was stable, the Saudi state news agency said, as Islamists demonstrated across the country against the militarys overthrow of President Mohammed Mursi.

King Abdullah was one of the first regional leaders to congratulate the head of the Egyptian Constitutional Court, Adly Mansour, on his appointment as interim head of state after the armed forces deposed Mursi on Wednesday.

In Fridays phone call, armed forces commander General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi informed the king of the latest developments and reassured him of the stability of the situation, SPA said.

King Abdullah told Sisi the events in Egypt called for wisdom and caution, the news agency said.
Most Gulf Arab states have been deeply rattled by the rise of Islamists in the Middle East and have watched with relief as the Egyptian army stepped in to end Muslim Brotherhood rule.

Egypt is


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## Ceylal

Imran Khan said:


> so its starting lose of uniform in egypt ?????? next step armed* attacks by islamists* ?


Egypt doesn't have mountains and forests where they can operate and hide...The only place is SINAI minus the forest, this territory is closed to them by the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty and even if it isn't it has a little value since its lightly populated. Rebellion , to succeed has to have a local support that they will not find in Sinai. Towns in the area are heavily secured and any attempt to create chaos there will be futile. 
Any rebellion, it has to be urbain. There too they will be crushed since the majority of the population are against Morsi, and the Egyptian security apparatus and the army have a great control of every town.


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## Solomon2

hussain0216 said:


> Dont underestimate the Ramadan effect
> 
> The Muslims will be in the mosques, fasting and praying
> 
> This is the time for the Muslim brotherhood to act
> 
> Make Egypt ungovernable, don't give the liberal scum any peace


That's what the "liberal scum" accomplished. But Egyptians are Egyptians first; their religious identity is separate. Furthermore, their sense of nationalism is very strong. They all tend to move together. I can guess that only a few tens of thousands of Egyptians extremists will be willing to act the way you ask - and they are just drops in the ocean compared to the millions the anti-Morsi advocates mobilized. 

Indeed, if there is a sustained bout of terror, I'd first believe it would be due to foreign elements, not Egyptians themselves.


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## Neptune

Armstrong said:


> Yes its me again... @Deno made me an Honorary Turk as I made her an Honorary Pakistani which means I can butt-in whenever & wherever I want when it comes to Turkey !
> 
> I dunno if @Neptune is such a good swimmer; the last time we swam he ended up being taken under the water by a Sealion after it has seen @Neptune 's cute butt & the rest I can't tell otherwise he'd ban me !



Ahahah. Yeah I swim good. It's the first rule of sailing. I mean real sealing. Btw, why would I ban my Fenerbahcean brother...forget it. Let's ban Galatasaray's so-called boys...and don't forget to launch a Shaheen III through their homeland Aslantepe which means Cat Hill in english

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## Ceylal

hussain0216 said:


> Make Egypt ungovernable, don't give the* liberal scum* any peace



If liberals are scum...what is the proper qualificatif should you give the one you are defending...?

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## kalu_miah

The failure of this Islamist experiment poses a danger far beyond Egypt | Jonathan Freedland | Comment is free | The Guardian

*The failure of this Islamist experiment poses a danger far beyond Egypt*

Too many in the Muslim world will now conclude that democracy has no place for them &#8211; and will be drawn to violence instead

Jonathan Freedland
The Guardian, Friday 5 July 2013 15.30 EDT





Supporters of the ousted president, Mohamed Morsi, in Cairo this week. 'To remove an elected president, to arrest a movement&#8217;s leaders and silence its radio and TV stations, is to send a loud message to &#8230; Islamists everywhere.' Photograph: Xinhua /Landov / Barcroft Media

Even the most global events, those whose reverberations are felt far beyond their borders, are rooted in the specific and the local. This week's coup d'etat in Egypt, the army stepping in to remove and then arrest the democratically elected president, is no different. The toppling of Mohamed Morsi had a hundred causes, many of them wholly peculiar to Egypt. A choice example: Morsi wanted to close all shops at 10pm, so that Egyptians would be fully rested in time for morning prayers. That didn't go down well in famously nocturnal Cairo where, as the New Yorker put it, "there are still traffic jams at 2am and where internet usage peaks at 12.45am".

Still, what happens in Egypt matters outside Egypt. The country is just too important to keep its upheavals to itself. Consider that one in four Arabs are said to be Egyptian, the ancient nation repeatedly setting the lead the rest of the Arab world follows. One example: within a decade or two of Nasser taking power in the early 50s, similar regimes were in place in Iraq, Libya, Syria and Sudan.

One analyst says that the implications of these latest events will resonate even further, reaching Indonesia, Pakistan and every place where Muslims form the majority. Of course the nearer neighbours are affected most directly. The ambitious Gulf state of Qatar, Morsi's fellow Islamists in Turkey and the Muslim brothers of Hamas are among the initial losers, each having invested heavily in the one-year president only to see that investment evaporate. But the fallout spreads far wider. For this represents a deep blow not just to Morsi and the other Brotherhood leaders rounded up on the generals' orders &#8211; some of them jailed in the very same prison that houses Hosni Mubarak and his sons. It strikes at a larger project, namely the creation of a modern and viable form of political Islam, one that aspires not merely to be a movement of protest, but capable of government. Granted a trial run on the biggest possible stage, that show has now closed after just a year.

What to make of this failure of the Islamist experiment? The hostile will give a smug shrug and say this was no surprise. Citing the conduct of the man who before Morsi was most regularly named as the potential model of moderate Islamism, Turkey's Recep Tayyip Erdo&#287;an &#8211; who last month crushed a wave of anti-government protests &#8211; they will sigh and regret without sincerity that this proves Islam and democracy are simply incompatible. They might repeat that oft-quoted nugget of cynicism, that in the Muslim world democracy means "one man, one vote, one time". In this view, the Egyptian election of 2012 was always bound to be a freak event, never to be repeated.

Defenders of Islamism will say the problem lay not within, but without &#8211; that the Morsi brand of political Islam was denied the chance to prove itself, strangled at birth by the forces that took back control this week. In this version, the Brotherhood was cheated of power it had won fair and square.

Less straightforward is the view of those who dream of a secular, liberal democracy flowering in Egypt. Many are cheered by this week's events: the theocrats have been scattered, their power-grabbing constitution suspended. Liberals might concede that, yes, this victory came about in strange fashion, delivered by the very armed forces they were demonstrating against 18 months ago. But there are coping mechanisms available to deal with such contradictions, denial chief among them. Note the message in English on the front of the al-Tahrir newspaper &#8211; "It's a revolution &#8230; not a coup, Mr Obama!" &#8211; or the delicate term chosen by the Egyptian novelist Ahdaf Soueif, who insisted this was not a coup, but a "deposal".

Yet this is to underestimate the danger of what has happened. To remove an elected president, to arrest a movement's leaders and silence its radio and TV stations, is to send a loud message to them and to Islamists everywhere. It says: you have no place in the political system. It says: there is no point trying to forge a version of political Islam compatible with democracy, because democracy will not be available to you.

It is the same message sent in Algeria two decades ago, when Islamists were on course to win an election but were pushed aside in a military coup before they could take power; and similarly in Gaza in 2006, when Hamas won the votes but were internationally shunned. Except this week, the point has been rammed home in one of the largest, historically mightiest Muslim nations. Chatham House's Nadim Shehadi worries that, after this week, "extremists will tell moderates, 'Don't even bother fighting elections. This is what happens to us if we win.'".

In Egypt the peril is very clear, made vivid by Friday's fear, partly realised, that the pro-Morsi forces' "day of rejection" would turn violent. The Muslim Brotherhood could, once again, be driven underground. It renounced violence long ago and few believe it will go back. But more radical jihadist voices &#8211; recall that at al-Qaida's helm is Ayman al-Zawahiri, an Egyptian &#8211; will now have a powerful rhetorical weapon. You tried the democratic route, they will say. And look where it got you.

The specific challenge for Egypt now is to somehow stop this pendulum swing from secular, military-backed dictatorship to illiberal democracy and back again, in which one set of masters seeks to replace entirely the other &#8211; typified by Morsi's winner-takes-all approach to power. A more durable accommodation would surely recognise that Islamist and secular Egypt have to live together and share power. That will require the Muslim Brotherhood not to draw the conclusion that they cannot rule democratically, but that they cannot rule alone.

The west are not detached bystanders in all this. US influence in the region may be diminishing, but in Egypt it retains power of the rawest kind: its $1.3bn in military aid gives it all but a veto over the Egyptian armed forces &#8211; aid, incidentally, that under US law will be cut off if Obama dares use the word "coup". The US could have used that muscle to head off this crisis months ago, pressuring the army and Morsi to come to an agreement. (Instead, secretary of state John Kerry seems more excited chasing the dream of an Israeli-Palestinian peace, even though the signs there are hardly encouraging.) That way, says Shehadi, Morsi would have been allowed to serve out his term, eventually be ridiculed as corrupt and incompetent, lose the next election &#8211; "and we'd have forgotten political Islamism for a generation". Instead, he and his movement will be martyrs.

Of course, it's hard not to root for the crowds in Tahrir Square, thrilled to be rid of a man apparently bent on becoming a theocratic tyrant. But the manner of his departure could pave the way for something far worse &#8211; for Egypt and beyond.

Twitter: @freedland

========================================================================
My personal comment:

I think the Egyptian Army made a serious mistake by removing a democratically elected govt. They simply do not have any legal right to do this, just because there is so many millions demonstrating.

As a result, Egypt will now burn.

My advice to Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood supporters would be to demonstrate peacefully without getting into violence. If a new election is called, participate in this election and try to win again. If the election is fair, accept the results, regardless of who wins. If the election is rigged, only then there is a place for fighting back a corrupt system that will not give fair election.

Enemy's of Muslims are out to prove that Muslims cannot work with and function in a democracy. They are trying to topple AKP in Turkey. Tunisia is hanging on. Recent election in Pakistan was great. Bangladesh is a lost cause, secular thugs are ruling and plan to remain in power with rigged elections. Lets see how things turn out in Egypt.

My call to Egyptian brothers, please give democracy a chance. If democracy is not allowed with rigged election or banning any political party, only then action should be taken against the enemy. They can remove Morsi, but they should not be allowed to take away democracy or rig elections. Lets try to fight with ballot boxes again. Lets not turn away from democracy, not just yet. Lets show to the world that Muslims can and will work with democracy and even will fight for their democratic rights, if it is taken away from them in a rigged election.

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## Yabgu

American spying said:


> Someone needs to bomb Turkey back to the Stone Age



Good luck with that... L


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## Ceylal

Hugo Rafael said:


> Hello to all people,
> 
> It is a pleasure and honor to exchanging words and opinions whit all of yours in special with members or sympathizers of the countries unaligned struggling against imperialism.
> 
> here is a sad situation, I hope everything is fixed for the good of the people
> 
> Sorry for my bad english


Welcome amigo!

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## Broccoli

How close to a civil war Egypt is right now?


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## hussain0216

Good analysis, the idiot secular slime haven't ended political islam in Egypt they've made them into martyrs

The analysis is correct if after 4 years the M.B had been terrible they would have been destroyed in the elections not to be seen again for a generation

Now they are martyrs, the disposed, 

They now have righteous indignation on their side, endless fuel for their speeches

They have a Hugh base and the liberals have ensured the M.B will be back stronger than ever

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## mdcp

Problem for muslim countries is corrupt militaries and generals, unfortunately what happened in Egypt is very bad, how a genetal can oust elected president, it was all regime and remains of husne mubarak(military, judiciay, gulf, snd west) against honest and lyal muslim leadership


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## Solomon2

mdcp said:


> Problem for muslim countries is corrupt militaries and generals, unfortunately what happened in Egypt is very bad, how a genetal can oust elected president -


It's been pointed out over and over again that the M-B was busy undermining the democratic system that brought them to power as well as doing nothing to alleviate Egypt's economic crisis.


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## kalu_miah

Broccoli said:


> How close to a civil war Egypt is right now?



Egyptians would know better. But many here are biased.

My personal take, Muslim Brotherhood supporters will vent their outrage and hopefully will show that they have bigger crowds than the anti-Morsi crowd. They may even try to take over Tahrir square from the anti-Morsi crowd. But after a few months, they will back down and gear up for elections, if there is a quick election. If they are not allowed to take part in election, then the situation may turn dangerous.


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## Sedqal

Solomon2 said:


> It's been pointed out over and over again that the M-B was busy undermining the democratic system that brought them to power as well as doing nothing to alleviate Egypt's economic crisis.



Well its a hard sell considering Egyptian Army was very silent during the long thirty years of dictatorship. Its funny too _Egyptian Army_ in action to stop an _elected govt_ from _undermining democratic system_

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## mdcp

U can not justify the wrong doing of militay coup, it was better for ppl and world for long run jlto stay and see as the time passes the progress of govt. and result
Unfortunately, the militaries and media create so much propaganda to malign good islamic govt. for their vested interests mind these were holding all resources and power and all these demonstrations were planned by agencies


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## hussain0216

Solomon2 said:


> That's what the "liberal scum" accomplished. But Egyptians are Egyptians first; their religious identity is separate. Furthermore, their sense of nationalism is very strong. They all tend to move together. I can guess that only a few tens of thousands of Egyptians extremists will be willing to act the way you ask - and they are just drops in the ocean compared to the millions the anti-Morsi advocates mobilized.
> 
> Indeed, if there is a sustained bout of terror, I'd first believe it would be due to foreign elements, not Egyptians themselves.



There are millions, not a few thousand

There base is the poor and conservative who care about basics like food and water not the liberal tamarod crowd who want the right to screw around and not be judged as *****

Give it another year combine the Muslim brotherhoods new martyr status with their righteous indignation and another tough economic year where the poor will face more hardship and the only option for the new government is to increase their hardship in order to fix the economic mess then you will have a Muslim brotherhood bigger and stronger than ever

If only egyptian liberals were dumb enough to push through gay marriage or something then their coffins would be ready

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## hussain0216

The situation in Egypt is too tough to fix quickly, thats why I hate this coup

Poor morsi was an honest man, but neither he nor any president could fix the egyptian mess in a year not even superman could

The Muslim brothers should NOT give the fake liberal regime any legitimacy
Refuse to take part in elections

Then wait

Let the liberal scum deal with the mess and hard decisions any government in the same position would end up being despised

The Muslim brothers if they plan it right could be stronger than ever in the future

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## kalu_miah

hussain0216 said:


> The situation in Egypt is too tough to fix quickly, thats why I hate this coup
> 
> Poor morsi was an honest man, but neither he nor any president could fix the egyptian mess in a year not even superman could
> 
> The Muslim brothers should NOT give the fake liberal regime any legitimacy
> Refuse to take part in elections
> 
> Then wait
> 
> Let the liberal scum deal with the mess and hard decisions any government in the same position would end up being despised
> 
> The Muslim brothers if they plan it right could be stronger than ever in the future



So you think in a way it was blessing in disguise for MB? Let the liberals deal with the current economic mess that will make them even more unpopular?

But why not take part in the election and win it again? May be this time they can avoid some of the mistakes they made in the past. They need more MB supporters among Army and police ranks. I think they need to learn more from AKP in Turkey, how to improve the economy and to bring Army and police to their side. May be they can get more Turkish advisers if they get re-elected.

I think MB will try to get re-elected again, if they see a possibility of a fair election and a fair chance at winning. No political party wants to stay out of power, unless they are forced to.


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## Desertfalcon

The problem was not that Morsi couldn't fix the mess and the problem with the OP is that people have an incorrect sense of what democracy IS. Democracy is far more than the idea of, _"We won the election and so now we can use the power of the state to do what we want."_. It's about individual rights and freedom, transparency and accountability, respect for religious and ideological minorities, etc. By it's very nature, true democracy entails belief that government is limited and ought to stay out of people's private lives. A democracy's job is to govern justly and well, not re-make the society into an Islamacist state. Morsi's problem is not that he couldn't fix things. It was that he assumed that by winning an election, he had a mandate to move Egypt toward Islamic authoritarianism. That is not why the Egyptian people elected him to begin with and because of that, they naturally turned on him.


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## kalu_miah

Desertfalcon said:


> The problem was not that Morsi couldn't fix the mess and the problem with the OP is that people have an incorrect sense of what democracy IS. Democracy is far more than the idea of, _"We won the election and so now we can use the power of the state to do what we want."_. It's about individual rights and freedom, transparency and accountability, respect for religious and ideological minorities, etc. By it's very nature, true democracies entails belief that government is limited and ought to stay out of people's private lives. A democracies job is tro govern justly and well, not re-make the society into an Islamacist state. Morsi's problem is not that he couldn't fix things. It was that he assumed that by winning an election, he had a mandate to move Egypt toward Islamic authoritarianism. That is not why the Egyptian people elected him to begin with and because of that, they naturally turned on him.



That is what anti-Morsi crowd would like you to believe. When you win an election, you do have mandate. And Democracy in any place, even in the West is work in progress and Egypt is starting with democracy, so they need time to evolve on their own terms, not what others would impose on them.

And Egyptian people did not turn on him, it was a few million anti-Morsi crowd and some Egyptian Army generals who turned on him.

When all party's went to election and participated, the deal is that they have to accept the result and wait for the ballot box in 4 years. If there are grievances, they have to be solved within the system in place, not throw away everything with an Army coup.

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## hussain0216

Yes, basically Pakistan and Egypt are similar in some ways. In order to fix the economic problems of the country the leader/government needs to take some hard and very very very painful decisions

Increase taxes and tax collection, end subsidies etc etc

The nation needs a decade of pain in order to fix itself so it can grow

Whichever government does this it will be the best for the nation but it will be intensely hated and it and it's leader will need to sacrifice themselves in order to fix the state

It will also require near complete support from the opposition


The M.B should NOT go for power let the liberal deal with the mess, and then place itself as the legitimate party and increase its support

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## Desertfalcon

kalu_miah said:


> That is what anti-Morsi crowd would like you to believe. When you win an election, you do have mandate. And Democracy in any place, even in the West is work in progress and Egypt is starting with democracy, so they need time to evolve on their own terms, not what others would impose on them.
> 
> And Egyptian people did not turn on him, it was a few million anti-Morsi crowd and some Egyptian Army generals who turned on him.
> 
> When all party's went to election and participated, the deal is that they have to accept the result and wait for the ballot box in 4 years. If there are grievances, they have to be solved within the system in place, not throw away everything with an Army coup.


Well, again, winning an election does not mean that you have a mandate to begin imposing authoritarian changes as when Morsi granted himself unlimited powers to "protect" the nation and the power to legislate without judicial oversight or review of his acts. That is not how democracies function. That is not what the people elected him to do. As I said, a democracy is not just wining one election and thinking you have a mandate to do what you want or to impose your ideas on society. 

As to the protest, had they only been a "few million", that would have been huge in itself but the protests were far bigger than that. Most estimates are that between *12 to 14 million* Egyptians took to the streets to demand Morsi and the MB's ouster. That is far larger than the protests against even Mubarak. I mean, what else could have happened? The army could remove one man and his cohorts or they could have launch military action against....12 to 14 million people? Come on! Egypt was paralyzed and the army was the only institution that could have restored order. The army, to it's credit, was not about to use force on 12 or 14 million people. That _would_ have been tragic and would have turned Egypt into another Syria. The army did the only reasonable and humane thing it could do.


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## Saleem

kalu_miah said:


> The failure of this Islamist experiment poses a danger far beyond Egypt | Jonathan Freedland | Comment is free | The Guardian
> 
> *The failure of this Islamist experiment poses a danger far beyond Egypt*
> 
> .



and the stink from poop poses a pollution problem for the world.....


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## kalu_miah

Desertfalcon said:


> Well, again, winning an election does not mean that you have a mandate to begin imposing authoritarian changes as when Morsi granted himself unlimited powers to "protect" the nation and the power to legislate without judicial oversight or review of his acts. That is not how democracies function. That is not what the people elected him to do. As I said, a democracy is not just wining one election and thinking you have a mandate to do what you want or to impose your ideas on society.
> 
> As to the protest, had they only been a "few million", that would have been huge in itself but the protests were far bigger than that. Most estimates are that between *12 to 14 million* Egyptians took to the streets to demand Morsi and the MB's ouster. That is far larger than the protests against even Mubarak. I mean, what else could have happened? The army could remove one man and his cohorts or they could have launch military action against....12 to 14 million people? Come on! Egypt was paralyzed and the army was the only institution that could have restored order. The army, to it's credit, was not about to use force on 12 or 14 million people. That _would_ have been tragic and would have turned Egypt into another Syria. The army did the only reasonable and humane thing it could do.



It is very easy to judge from outside, you and I do not know the situation on the ground well, what prompted Morsi to act the way he did.

As for the protest having 12 to 14 million, some are claiming 33 million in comments from anti-Morsi Egyptians on the web, so it is hard to tell the actual numbers. But protests cannot be a legitimate means to change govt. In a democracy, only ballot box can do that. Democracy ensures the right for protesting peacefully, not taking law into your own hand and remove a elected govt. using their supporters in Armed forces.

In any case, if you read my previous comments, my hope is that Brotherhood will not go for violence even after this illegitimate coup and rather wait for the next election to fight their opponents with ballot box, not in street battles. Let the party with most votes win.


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## Syrian Lion

*The Night of Arresting the Ikhwan - Egypt
*

84 Years until they got to power in Egypt and in 1 year they worked hard to control all power centers: Presidency, Parliament, Shoura Coucil (Supreme Advisory Board), Provincial Mayors, Public Prosecution..

Their president changed the constitution to consolidate all powers worse than what was there during the days of ousted Mubarak.. The army took the initiative after over 22 million Egyptians took to the streets and demanded an end to the Muslim Brotherhood rule, and that's what happened.


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## kalu_miah

Muslim Brotherhood Blasts Egypt's Protesters as 'Military Intelligence Operation' | FP Passport

Downfall in Cairo - By Marc Lynch | Foreign Policy

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## pkuser2k12

*30 killed, 300 injured in Egypt clashes *









Thirty people have been killed and over 300 injured across Egypt during clashes between tens of thousands of opponents and supporters of ousted President Mohamed Morsi, according to Egyptian Health Ministry officials. 



PressTV - 30 killed, 300 injured in Egypt clashes​



*Pro-Morsi supporters march toward state TV building in Cairo​*







Supporters of the ousted Egyptian president, Mohamed Morsi, have marched on to the national broadcasting center in central Cairo. 



PressTV - Pro-Morsi supporters march toward state TV building in Cairo​



*Muslim Brotherhood vows non-stop protests until Morsi returns​*







*Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood vows to continue unabated string of mass protests outside the presidential palace in Cairo until the ousted president, Mohamed Morsi, returns to power.*


Muslim Brotherhood's Supreme Leader Mohammed Badie made the remarks on Friday while addressing crowds of pro-Morsi demonstrators in Cairo&#8217;s Nasr City, two days after the army toppled the president.

Badie added that the army and security forces must stop shooting people, noting that Morsi is the president of all Egyptians.

"Our bare chests are stronger than bullets," he told the protest rally.


He also urged supporters to stay on the streets and keep up mass rallies in Cairo and other major Egyptian cities in the coming days.

The top leader denied reports that he had been arrested by military authorities and taken to an undisclosed location.

Meanwhile, more than six people were killed in several parts of the country as supporters of the deposed president held nationwide rallies, demanding Morsi's reinstatement.

Morsi was unseated on July 3, and the chief justice of Egypt&#8217;s Supreme Constitutional Court, Adly Mansour, was sworn in as interim president of Egypt on July 4.

Morsi is reportedly being held &#8220;preventively&#8221; by the military. Senior army officials say he might face formal charges over accusations made by his opponents.

Several arrest warrants have been issued for members of Muslim Brotherhood.




PressTV - Muslim Brotherhood vows non-stop protests until Morsi returns​

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## Sedqal

Syrian Lion said:


> *The Night of Arresting the Ikhwan - Egypt
> *
> 
> 84 Years until they got to power in Egypt and in 1 year they worked hard to control all power centers: Presidency, Parliament, Shoura Coucil (Supreme Advisory Board), Provincial Mayors, Public Prosecution..
> 
> Their president changed the constitution to consolidate all powers worse than what was there during the days of ousted Mubarak.. The army took the initiative after over 22 million Egyptians took to the streets and demanded an end to the Muslim Brotherhood rule, and that's what happened.



They must learn democracy from great Syria where Assad 'inherited' the 'country' from his father and has won all elections/ referendums with 95%+ votes

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## agentny17

Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

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## Serpentine

30 people killed already,I just hope Egypt doesn't become another Yemen.Best of luck for all Egyptians.


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## kalu_miah

UAE, Saudi Arabia express support for Egyptian military&rsquo;s removal of Morsi - The National
Arab leaders happy to see Morsi gone - The Washington Post

Saudi Arabia Pleased With Morsi's Fall
Saudi hostility to the Brotherhood goes beyond allegations of terrorism. It is grounded in several factors that make it impossible for the regime to coexist with the Brotherhood as a party in opposition or in power.

First, the Saudi regime fears ideological competition from a political party that upholds Islam. The regime prides itself on being the only one that rules according to Sharia. It has propagated this myth for several decades and thus distinguished itself from so-called secular Arab dictators. Its religious establishment seriously believes that its political leadership is the only one that respects Islam. The Muslim Brotherhood in power in the most populous Arab country undermines the Saudi monopoly on Islamic politics.

Second, unlike official Saudi Salafists, who still believe that democracy is a Western import that promises to bring atheists, secularists and leftists to power, the Brotherhood engaged in elections, won seats in parliaments and even came to power in Tunisia and Egypt. Surely, then, Islam and democracy are not so incompatible. This in itself threatens the foundations of Saudi rule, which is still based on absolute kingship, difficult to justify from an Islamic point of view. The Brotherhood therefore exposes Saudi claims to legitimacy and undermines their credibility as lawful Muslim rulers. The Saudi regime worries about its population being contaminated by ideas and practices of how a Muslim can be democratic while remaining within the fold of Islam. This is not to say that a socially conservative Islamist trend like the Brotherhood is a bastion of liberty and democracy, but the Brotherhood's willingness to engage with democratic institutions is enough to scare the Saudi regime. 

Third, like the Saudi regime, the Muslim Brotherhood is a transnational organization with branches across the Arab and Muslim world. It has penetrated educational institutions, preaching forums and relief organizations, which the Saudi government has been eager to control and dominate for its own foreign policy and legitimacy abroad. While the Brotherhood does not have the economic resources of Saudi Arabia, it has nevertheless spread across the globe, sometimes in disguise. The Saudis worry about the impact of this global competition among Muslims worldwide, who may become galvanized against Saudi policies. The competition over the hearts and minds of Muslims in the growing global Muslim society worries Saudi Arabia, which seeks to monopolize these platforms.

Fourth, Saudi Arabia prides itself on representing Sunni Islam against its alleged enemies, mainly other sects such as the Shiites. When the Brotherhood called for Islamic unity before it came to power in Egypt, thus softening the Sunni-Shiite divide, the Saudi regime felt undermined by such slogans. When Morsi visited Iran in 2012, Saudi attacks on the rapprochement reached a high tone. He tried to redeem himself when he denounced Alawite President Bashar al-Assad of Syria, but the damage had already been done. Saudi Arabia feared that Morsi would make Egypt drift toward Iran, with whom Saudi Arabia competes for hegemony at the regional level.

Saudi Arabia definitely wanted to see in Egypt a president who would continue to warn against the Shiite crescent, like Mubarak, and unable to break away from Saudi patronage. The Muslim Brotherhood had already drifted toward Qatar rather than Iran, thus allowing this small but wealthy Gulf country to undermine Saudi designs for the region and split the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) countries over the desired outcome of the Arab uprisings. The Muslim Brotherhood is seen by the Saudis as an untrustworthy and ungrateful organization that is now too close to Saudi borders, which may allow it to not only spread its ideology among Saudis but also recruit them upon visits to Qatar, where a network of Muslim Brotherhood-friendly intellectual forums, media platforms and think tanks have been established.

The failure of the Muslim Brotherhood to hold on to power for a year is now celebrated in the official Saudi press. So-called liberal journalists congratulate the Egyptian people on getting rid of the so-called religious dictatorship while forgetting their own plight under a regime that was equally if not more oppressive. In contrast, Saudi Islamists spread the rumor that Saudi Arabia, together with the United Arab Emirates, was behind Morsi's fall. While there may be some truth to this, such rumors undermine the Egyptian crowds that assembled to press for his downfall. If the outcome so far pleases the Saudi regime, it should not obscure the fact that Egypt remains diverse, volatile and may not unquestionably succumb to the rule of Islamists or other governments eager to patronize them. The Egyptian crowds got rid of their Islamists and will not become clients of the Saudi regime. They have staged two revolutions so far and will continue to do so until they reach a post-revolutionary equilibrium in which all are politically represented. 
Saudi Arabia had a vested interest in seeing a rival Islamist party fail, sending a strong message to the local constituency sympathetic to the cause of the Muslim Brotherhood. It may take time before the message is forgotten, but today, it is a moment of joy for the Saudi regime.

Madawi Al-Rasheed is a visiting professor at the Middle East Centre at the London School of Economics and Political Science. She has written extensively about the Arabian Peninsula, Arab migration, globalization, religious trans-nationalism and gender. On Twitter: @madawiDr

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## Solomon2

Restricting Democracy in Order to Protect Other Liberal Values

Ilya Somin &#8226; July 5, 2013 11:30 am

Some argue that it would be hypocritical for the United States or other Western nations to support the recent military coup against radical Islamist Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi. After all, we supposedly champion democracy, and Morsi was democratically elected. Whether the US should endorse the post-coup government, oppose it, or take a wait-and-see attitude is a tough question. But it isn&#8217;t inherently hypocritical for liberal democrats to &#8211; in some cases &#8211; support the overthrow of an elected government.

That&#8217;s because democracy is not the only important liberal value, and not always the most important one. At the very least, the liberal tradition, broadly defined, also values individual freedom, equality for women, toleration of religious and ethnic minorities, economic progress, and the prevention of mass murder, slavery, and genocide. Most of the time, democracy promotes these other liberal values better than the available alternative regimes. But not always. Democracy and liberal values conflict in cases where public opinion is highly illiberal and cases where the democratic process brings to power parties that intend to shut down future political competition. Both problems are relevant to the present situation in Egypt and at least some other nations.

*I. Illiberal Majority Opinion.*

Democracy is a political system where the government is chosen by the majority of voters. But what if that majority favors oppressive, illiberal policies? What if they want to persecute religious minorities, force women to be second-class citizens, establish systems of forced labor, and so on? In that scenario, democracy can easily end up promoting repression.

This is far from a purely theoretical problem. Majority Egyptian opinion is in fact highly illiberal, with 84 percent supporting the death penalty for any Muslim who converts to another religion, 54 percent favoring legally mandated sex segregation in the workplace, and 58 percent saying that laws should &#8220;strictly follow the Quran&#8221; (compared to 28 percent who say it should merely &#8220;follow values and principles of Islam&#8221. This problem is not, of course, unique to present-day Egypt. In post-World War II western Germany, the US, Britain, and France at first refused to establish an elected government, in part because surveys showed that majority German opinion was highly authoritarian well into the 1950s. When they did allow the establishment of a democratic government in 1949, they limited the range of parties who were allowed to compete, banning both the Nazis and other extreme nationalists (the West German government later banned the Communist Party for many years).

Unfortunately, cases like modern Egypt and post-World War II Germany are not rare exceptions. As I discuss in Democracy and Political Ignorance, widespread ignorance and irrational evaluation of the information voters do know are serious problems even in well-established liberal democracies such as the United States. They are likely to be even more severe in in societies where the distribution of opinion is skewed by a long history of authoritarianism and indoctrination. Public opinion in such countries is certainly not immutable. By the 1960s, German public opinion was far more liberal than it had been in 1945. But at least in the short to medium term, illiberal public opinion creates a serious conflict between democracy and other liberal values.

Given the highly oppressive agenda of parties like the Nazis, communists, and radical Islamists, restricting the democratic process in situations where they are likely to seize power is often a lesser evil compared to letting them get into office. Obviously, the available alternative rulers are often far from admirable themselves. But, as a general rule, corrupt generals or bureaucrats who seek power for reasons of narrow self-interest are less likely to commit massive atrocities than religious fanatics or totalitarian ideologues.

*II. The &#8220;One Man, One Vote, One Time&#8221; Problem*

Faced with cases where elections bring highly illiberal parties to power, defenders of the democratic process sometimes respond that the offending rulers can at least be voted out of office. For example, the _USA Today_ suggests it would have been better if the Egyptian opposition and military had left Morsi in power and waited until the Muslim Brotherhood was &#8220;voted out in the next election.&#8221; That, of course, would be little consolation to the people who are murdered or oppressed in the meantime. Moreover, future elections are unlikely to help if the government&#8217;s repressive activities are actually popular with the electoral majority, which in a generally illiberal society they might be.

Even worse, this kind of argument implicitly assumes that illiberal forces who come to power by electoral means will respect the democratic process in the future. In reality, once in office many of them seek to subvert that process by persecuting their political opponents, rigging the electoral process, and other means. Morsi&#8217;s government had already begun to persecute opponents to a greater degree than even its authoritarian predecessor.

When illiberal parties come to power through the democratic process, the result is all too likely to be &#8220;one man, one vote, one time.&#8221; They climb the electoral ladder and then kick it out from under those who try to follow. Such an outcome is particularly likely in societies with little prior democratic tradition. Where this is a real problem, restricting democracy can not only help preserve other liberal values. It may also be essential to preserving democracy itself in the long term.

None of this proves either that the Egyptian coup was a positive development or that curbing the democratic process is necessarily the right course of action in other similar situations. Each such case has its own difficult tradeoffs. Even where restrictions are justified, it may be better to ban specific illiberal parties from competing (as in West Germany after 1949) than to abjure democracy entirely. My point is that liberals should not categorically reject the possibility that sometimes we may need to limit democracy in order to preserve other values.

UPDATE: Harvard law professor Noah Feldman, a leading academic expert on the Arab world, laments the coup in Egypt because &#8220;In a functioning democracy, there is an orderly constitutional process for protesting and removing a leader. When someone is elected for a term of years, he should serve them out unless he resigns or is impeached.&#8221; Perhaps so. But Feldman ignores the sorts of concerns I outline above. He also ignores the ways in which Morsi himself had undermined the democratic process by using the powers of government to persecute his political opponents. If the opposition had not acted now, there is no guarantee that Morsi and the radical Islamists would ever have allowed genuinely free elections to occur on schedule.

_Solomon2 note: I am reminded of the situation behind the eighteenth-century War of Spanish Succession. Spain and its empire had been deeded by the dead Spanish king to a Bourbon prince, son of King Louis XIV. Yet to maintain the balance-of-powers in Europe required that the Empire be split up and Spain ruled by a mostly neutral king. 

Louis XIV decided to fight for "legitimacy" - the dead king's will - and took steps to integrate the Spanish Empire with his own. Thus he plunged Spain and Europe into over a decade of unnecessary warfare. 

This is the fate, in my opinion, that it would be best for Egypt and the world to avoid. Don't get hung up on the "legitimacy" of a leader and party that have been keen on eliminating the very democratic framework that brought them to power and would have, if they had left it intact, enabled Egyptians to get rid of Morsi and the M-B through legal means: with Parliament dissolved and future elections nowhere in sight, this was the only course left to remove a president and party bent upon imposing their own tyranny._


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## Sedqal

*Thus spoke the Egyptians: Why is it not a coup?*

When we celebrated the end of Mubarak&#8217;s rule on 11 February 2011, we did not expect to do it again two and a half years later. This is not one of the articles that talk about how great the Egyptian people are, and start taking you in an endless journey through historical achievements that date back thousands of years before Christ. I believe all of that is useless irrelevant rhetoric. What really matters now is a simple question that is very difficult to answer, and that is simply &#8220;what the hell happened?&#8221;

Westerners in general, Americans in specific, tend to be extremely occupied with the coup-revolution debate. It is a very confusing debate simply because there are signs that could be interpreted as a military coup. But any attempt to try and understand any of those signs would settle that debate. Mohamed Morsi and the rest of the Islamist movement in Egypt argue that according to the constitution, which people democratically chose, Morsi is the &#8220;legitimate&#8221; president and any attempt to overthrow him would be a coup d&#8217;etat.

While it would look like it makes sense on the outside, it does not make any sense in reality.* Democracy is not something that you practice once every four years. Elected officials are held accountable on a daily basis and not only when elections come around. Similarly, constitutions are not merely a matter of texts eloquently phrased, procedurally accurate while being practically blind to evident truths. Democratic constitutions are made of principles that lead to justice and equality.*

According to the Egyptian constitution of 2012, a president is to be deposed according to specific conditions.* In article 152, the president is accused of grand treason by a petition signed by one third of parliament members and agreed on by two thirds of parliament members. As soon as this accusation is made, the president is suspended from office and put on trial before a special court that relieves the president from duty. What should be done procedurally for the vacancy in the President&#8217;s position is laid out in articles that follow. However, even in the Muslim Brotherhood&#8217;s engineered constitution, a President accused of grand treason by two thirds of the Parliament is unfit to rule. Roughly, the Egyptian Parliament is comprised of 500 members, which makes two thirds of the Parliament about 330 members. Now, the total number of those who voted in the Parliamentary elections in 2011 and 2012 is 27 million, two thirds of that figure is 18 million. The number of those who signed the &#8220;Tamarod&#8221; petition and took to the streets to clearly state Morsi&#8217;s inability to rule is a lot more than that since it is more than 20 million (as reported by Tamarod).
*
*Jeopardizing Egyptian national security interests is an act of grand treason. Threatening the regional interests of Egypt is another act of treason, so as lying to the people, refusing to be held accountable and cracking down on the independence of the judiciary are all acts of treason. Every act Mohamed Morsi committed in which he violated the oath he took to care for Egyptian interests is indeed an act of grand treason. The deteriorating security of Sinai and the water security issue with Ethiopia are enough reasons to accuse Mohamed Morsi of threatening Egyptian national security, which in itself is a violation of the presidential oath he took. The constitutional principle is the same: presidents unfit to rule must be deposed.* *Why wait for 330 parliament members when the millions who would elect them decided to represent themselves? The point of constitutional procedure is to reflect the principles from which they stem. What happened in Egypt on Wednesday night is a very accurate reflection of the constitutional principle in article 152. The logical question after that would be how come these millions were not represented in the presidential election result?*

The real problem with Mohamed Morsi&#8217;s legitimacy was how non-representative it was. Actually, the political process that took place over the past couple of years in Egypt is not representative of the Egyptian people as much as it is representative of Egyptian techniques of electoral manipulation. *The legitimacy which Mohamed Morsi counted as cause for his validity stems from how well the Muslim Brotherhood administered the elections. The parliament elected in 2011 and 2012 that had almost 66% Islamists was not reflective of Egypt&#8217;s social and political forces,* *it was rather reflective of the political opportunity the Muslim Brotherhood efficiently utilized. Religious manipulation and capitalizing on poverty and ignorance were the main tools the Muslim Brotherhood used in all elections.* Mohamed Morsi and the leadership of the Muslim Brotherhood Guidance Bureau knew very well how their pseudo-legitimacy came about. The millions who took to the streets on 30 June challenged that legitimacy which was too weak to actually stand its ground.

It is true that what happened in Egypt remains to be far from what the January revolution envisioned. But what is important to notice is how those past two and a half years did not witness any real democratic developments. The political process that took place since February 2011 was based on non-representative pseudo-democracy. Tangible democratic change does not exist yet, which means that Egypt clearly was on the wrong track. What happened in Egypt a couple of days ago is a lot more conducive of a real process of democratic change than Morsi&#8217;s non-representative legitimacy. No one can claim that the post-Morsi phase will be free of problems or mistakes, but any objective Judgment of Morsi&#8217;s administration would prove how much of a failure it was. It is indeed very difficult to challenge Mohamed Morsi&#8217;s inefficiency.

If democracy is a matter of principle, then submitting to the will of the millions who took to the streets all across Egypt is the very basic application of that principle. In a democracy, legitimacy comes from the people and the people are entitled to claim it back. Whatever explanation looks at what happened in Egypt as a coup ignores an important dimension and that is the Egyptian people. It would have been a coup if it were strictly a matter of army-presidency confrontation. But applying the will of the people to remove an inefficient president who is incapable of fulfilling his oath is rational democratic behaviour.

Overthrowing Mohamed Morsi is not a power hungry undemocratic coup; it is simply the most practical manifestation of the people&#8217;s right to rule their own country.

Thus spoke the Egyptians: Why is it not a coup? - Daily News Egypt

-----------------------------------------

The length people will go to defend the coup 

1 - Elected officials are held accountable on DAILY BASIS!

2 - The people on road are more then 2/3rd which are technically required for petition of grand treason.

3 - MB is bad because it effectively utilized a political opportunity (the horror)

The age on enlightenment finally reaches the land of Pharaohs

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## agentny17

A message to the american people from Egypt





These are the people you guys are supporting, proud of yourself ?!!!!






Wake up people.... This is a revolution against fascists and terrorists. If you are not gonna stand by the people who are asking for freedom, equality, and human rights, who are you gonna stand by ?!!!!


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## fallstuff

agentny17 said:


> A message to the american people from Egypt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are the people you guys are supporting, proud of yourself ?!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wake up people.... This is a revolution against fascists and terrorists. If you are not gonna stand by the people who are asking for freedom, equality, and human rights, who are you gonna stand by ?!!!!



What freedom did Morsi take away ?

What specifics laws were introduced jeopardizing equality ?


What human rights were violated ?

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## Sedqal

agentny17 said:


> A message to the american people from Egypt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wake up people.... This is a revolution against fascists and terrorists. If you are not gonna stand by the people who are asking for freedom, equality, and human rights, who are you gonna stand by ?!!!!



A teary eyed plea to America? *sniff* freedom is such a wonderful thing


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## Zarvan

Ceylal said:


> Egyptian army and the Egyptian security apparatus are very well oiled and equipped to deal with any armed rebellion of the brothers. Egyptians nailed political Islam coffin for good and their action will have a big repercution on the countries were Islamist got elected due to the arab spring.! Egyptiens *Un grand Bravo* for your accomplishment!


Sir no country has beaten the Islamists Sir not even USA Egyptian doesn't stand a chance in case of war they will suffer the most Sir and Islam will rule egypt again Sir no body can stop it brotherhood knows how to deal with these situations Sir better than any one else

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## Syrian Lion

The closest allies today to the United States are an Islamist Egypt, an Islamist regime in Turkey, and the Syrian rebels led by the Brotherhood.


Analyst: Obama has formed strategic alliance with Muslim Brotherhood | World Tribune


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## fallstuff

Sedqal said:


> *Thus spoke the Egyptians: Why is it not a coup?*
> 
> When we celebrated the end of Mubarak&#8217;s rule on 11 February 2011, we did not expect to do it again two and a half years later. This is not one of the articles that talk about how great the Egyptian people are, and start taking you in an endless journey through historical achievements that date back thousands of years before Christ. I believe all of that is useless irrelevant rhetoric. What really matters now is a simple question that is very difficult to answer, and that is simply &#8220;what the hell happened?&#8221;
> 
> Westerners in general, Americans in specific, tend to be extremely occupied with the coup-revolution debate. It is a very confusing debate simply because there are signs that could be interpreted as a military coup. But any attempt to try and understand any of those signs would settle that debate. Mohamed Morsi and the rest of the Islamist movement in Egypt argue that according to the constitution, which people democratically chose, Morsi is the &#8220;legitimate&#8221; president and any attempt to overthrow him would be a coup d&#8217;etat.
> 
> While it would look like it makes sense on the outside, it does not make any sense in reality.* Democracy is not something that you practice once every four years. Elected officials are held accountable on a daily basis and not only when elections come around. Similarly, constitutions are not merely a matter of texts eloquently phrased, procedurally accurate while being practically blind to evident truths. Democratic constitutions are made of principles that lead to justice and equality.*
> 
> According to the Egyptian constitution of 2012, a president is to be deposed according to specific conditions.* In article 152, the president is accused of grand treason by a petition signed by one third of parliament members and agreed on by two thirds of parliament members. As soon as this accusation is made, the president is suspended from office and put on trial before a special court that relieves the president from duty. What should be done procedurally for the vacancy in the President&#8217;s position is laid out in articles that follow. However, even in the Muslim Brotherhood&#8217;s engineered constitution, a President accused of grand treason by two thirds of the Parliament is unfit to rule. Roughly, the Egyptian Parliament is comprised of 500 members, which makes two thirds of the Parliament about 330 members. Now, the total number of those who voted in the Parliamentary elections in 2011 and 2012 is 27 million, two thirds of that figure is 18 million. The number of those who signed the &#8220;Tamarod&#8221; petition and took to the streets to clearly state Morsi&#8217;s inability to rule is a lot more than that since it is more than 20 million (as reported by Tamarod).
> *
> *Jeopardizing Egyptian national security interests is an act of grand treason. Threatening the regional interests of Egypt is another act of treason, so as lying to the people, refusing to be held accountable and cracking down on the independence of the judiciary are all acts of treason. Every act Mohamed Morsi committed in which he violated the oath he took to care for Egyptian interests is indeed an act of grand treason. The deteriorating security of Sinai and the water security issue with Ethiopia are enough reasons to accuse Mohamed Morsi of threatening Egyptian national security, which in itself is a violation of the presidential oath he took. The constitutional principle is the same: presidents unfit to rule must be deposed.* *Why wait for 330 parliament members when the millions who would elect them decided to represent themselves? The point of constitutional procedure is to reflect the principles from which they stem. What happened in Egypt on Wednesday night is a very accurate reflection of the constitutional principle in article 152. The logical question after that would be how come these millions were not represented in the presidential election result?*
> 
> The real problem with Mohamed Morsi&#8217;s legitimacy was how non-representative it was. Actually, the political process that took place over the past couple of years in Egypt is not representative of the Egyptian people as much as it is representative of Egyptian techniques of electoral manipulation. *The legitimacy which Mohamed Morsi counted as cause for his validity stems from how well the Muslim Brotherhood administered the elections. The parliament elected in 2011 and 2012 that had almost 66% Islamists was not reflective of Egypt&#8217;s social and political forces,* *it was rather reflective of the political opportunity the Muslim Brotherhood efficiently utilized. Religious manipulation and capitalizing on poverty and ignorance were the main tools the Muslim Brotherhood used in all elections.* Mohamed Morsi and the leadership of the Muslim Brotherhood Guidance Bureau knew very well how their pseudo-legitimacy came about. The millions who took to the streets on 30 June challenged that legitimacy which was too weak to actually stand its ground.
> 
> It is true that what happened in Egypt remains to be far from what the January revolution envisioned. But what is important to notice is how those past two and a half years did not witness any real democratic developments. The political process that took place since February 2011 was based on non-representative pseudo-democracy. Tangible democratic change does not exist yet, which means that Egypt clearly was on the wrong track. What happened in Egypt a couple of days ago is a lot more conducive of a real process of democratic change than Morsi&#8217;s non-representative legitimacy. No one can claim that the post-Morsi phase will be free of problems or mistakes, but any objective Judgment of Morsi&#8217;s administration would prove how much of a failure it was. It is indeed very difficult to challenge Mohamed Morsi&#8217;s inefficiency.
> 
> If democracy is a matter of principle, then submitting to the will of the millions who took to the streets all across Egypt is the very basic application of that principle. In a democracy, legitimacy comes from the people and the people are entitled to claim it back. Whatever explanation looks at what happened in Egypt as a coup ignores an important dimension and that is the Egyptian people. It would have been a coup if it were strictly a matter of army-presidency confrontation. But applying the will of the people to remove an inefficient president who is incapable of fulfilling his oath is rational democratic behaviour.
> 
> Overthrowing Mohamed Morsi is not a power hungry undemocratic coup; it is simply the most practical manifestation of the people&#8217;s right to rule their own country.
> 
> Thus spoke the Egyptians: Why is it not a coup? - Daily News Egypt
> 
> -----------------------------------------
> 
> The length people will go to defend the coup
> 
> 1 - Elected officials are held accountable on DAILY BASIS!
> 
> 2 - The people on road are more then 2/3rd which are technically required for petition of grand treason.
> 
> 3 - MB is bad because it effectively utilized a political opportunity (the horror)
> 
> The age on enlightenment finally reaches the land of Pharaohs



I keep asking wtf did he do that requires a coup to illegally remove him from the office. I just cant seem to get an answer on that one. 

I looked at the basics of constitution, I failed to see anything that is out of the ordinary. Apparently certain liberal folks are up in arms about some vague issues which makes no sense to folks who are busy putting food on the table. Oh, the election losers are also behind this. 

I don't care much about Morsi in any special way, but saddened to see wonderful opportunity thrown to garbage.

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## Syrian Lion

*MB terrorists shoot people to blame the Army..
*


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## Sedqal

fallstuff said:


> I keep asking wtf did he do that requires a coup to illegally remove him from the office. I just cant seem to get an answer on that one.
> 
> I looked at the basics of constitution, I failed to see anything that is out of the ordinary. Apparently certain liberal folks are up in arms about some vague issues which makes no sense to folks who are busy putting food on the table. Oh, the election losers are also behind this.
> 
> I don't care much about Morsi in any special way, but saddened to see wonderful opportunity thrown to garbage.



They couldn't get him on anything legal so this was an easy way out. I myself don't care much about the man (or the party) but its bad news for Egypt and Muslim world at large. Hardcore elements may go the violent way if they think they will never be allowed to form a govt through votes.

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## fallstuff

Sedqal said:


> They couldn't get him on anything legal so this was an easy way out. I myself don't care much about the man (or the party) but its bad news for Egypt and Muslim world at large. Hardcore elements may go the violent way if they think they will never be allowed to form a govt through votes.



Only thing I found on the constitution that comes closest to Radical Islamism is the following,

*PART I: STATE AND SOCIETY*

Chapter One: Political principles&#8232;&#8232;

Article 1&#8232;
The Arab Republic of Egypt is an independent sovereign state, united and indivisible, its system democratic.&#8232;The Egyptian people are part of the Arab and Islamic nations, proud of belonging to the Nile Valley and Africa and of its Asian reach, a positive participant in human civilization.&#8232;&#8232;

Article 2
Islam is the religion of the state and Arabic its official language.* Principles of Islamic Sharia are the principal source of legislation.&#8232;&#8232;*

For those who do not know about the Principle of Sharia,

1. The right to the protection of life.

2. The right to the protection of family.

3. The right to the protection of education.

4. The right to the protection of religion.

5. The right to the protection of property (access to resources).

6. The right to the protection of human dignity.

These sounds pretty basic to me, not much different than what any average American believes.

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## Prechko

hussain0216 said:


> The situation in Egypt is too tough to fix quickly, thats why I hate this coup
> 
> Poor morsi was an honest man, but neither he nor any president could fix the egyptian mess in a year not even superman could
> 
> The Muslim brothers should NOT give the fake liberal regime any legitimacy
> Refuse to take part in elections
> 
> Then wait
> 
> Let the liberal scum deal with the mess and hard decisions any government in the same position would end up being despised
> 
> The Muslim brothers if they plan it right could be stronger than ever in the future



You`re completely right , Egypt mess of today has a long roots , at least from 1952 Nasser coup. The once most advanced Arab country was turned on downward trend with each passing decade up to this moment.

President Morsi , maybe honest person is not too gifted politician , he could have done few things that would considerably make him politically stronger both domestically and in foreign relations. But, not everyone is Erdogan...


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## Jihad_

Can someone confirm?



> *Iranian Ayatollahs Blame Morsi's "Pro-Israeli, Pro-U.S." Stance For Egyptian Crisis*
> 
> In his sermons at Tehrans Friday prayers, Ayatollah Ahmad Khatami said, "Instead of inviting the Islamic world to unite, [Morsi's government] supported the murdering infidels. On the political front they dealt with the Zionist regime in a way that was against their previous principles."
> 
> "They confirmed the Camp David Accords and spread fear of Iran and Shi'a Islam," Khatami said, referring to the agreements that paved the way for a peace treaty between Egypt and Israel in 1979.
> 
> He said Iran hopes the people who supported Egypt's "Islamic Awakening" will not allow the country to return to being Israels "backyard."
> 
> U.S.-based Iran analyst Rasool Nafisi says Tehran is now trying to justify what has been described by some observers as the failure of political Islam.
> 
> "What happened in Egypt is the continuation of the call for the de-Islamization of politics and of course Iranians would be quite wary about it. On the other hand, theyre trying to justify it by saying [Morsi] government's wasn't Islamic enough," Nafisi said.
> 
> "They will blame the government of Egypt or any other country that goes through this for not being serious like Iran."
> 
> Tehran's Khatami was not the only Friday prayers leader to offer what appears to be the Iranian establishment's preferred reading of Morsi's ouster.
> 
> Hojatoleslam Hassan Ameli, the Friday prayers leader in the northwestern city of Ardebil, was quoted by Irans hardline Fars news agency as saying, "Some believe that the developments in Egypt are a second revolution and a tendency towards secularization, but we must not forget that these events are the results of Muslim Brotherhoods imprudence and Morsi's lack of understanding, which encouraged the people to change their leadership."
> 
> "In the past year Morsi did not even once frown at the U.S. and the Zionist regime, while in the early days of their revolution the Egyptians not only set the embassy of the Zionist regime on fire, but they also confronted the excessive demands of foreign governments," he said, referring to the 2011 attack on the Israeli Embassy in Egypt.
> 
> In Mashad, the hardline Ayatollah Alam Ahdi claimed that Egyptians wanted an Islamic regime but that Morsi failed to deliver.
> 
> "They gave their vote to an Islamic party, but this Islamic party violated the principles," he said, warning that the future is not looking bright for Egypt because of what he described as the U.S. dominance in the country.
> 
> In the city of Arak, former intelligence minister and prayer leader Ghorban Ali Dorri Najafabadi accused Morsi of having been dependent on the U.S. and Israel.
> 
> He said Morsi had erred in cutting ties with Syria, Iran's main ally in the region, while preserving ties with Israel, the "main enemy of Muslims."
> 
> Iran and Egypt had severed relations in 1980 after Cairo concluded its peace treaty with Jerusalem. However, since the fall of former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak in 2011, Tehran was hoping to make a new friend in Egypt.



Iranian Ayatollahs Blame Morsi's "Pro-Israeli, Pro-U.S." Stance For Egyptian Crisis


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## MooshMoosh

It's getting worse. The protesters called for Morsi's release saying they will sacrifice over Morsi and clash happened. I knew they would be bolstered and go worse anyway by watching previous threats before the coup.

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## Syrian Lion

Very beach obama!


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## Yzd Khalifa

Jihad_ said:


> Can someone confirm?
> 
> 
> 
> Iranian Ayatollahs Blame Morsi's "Pro-Israeli, Pro-U.S." Stance For Egyptian Crisis



The Mullahs are the biggest hypocrites of all time. They stood with all year long, but now they are saying something else.

Poor mullahs! They spent a wealth on the MB

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## Yzd Khalifa

&#x202b;
&#x202b;
&#x202b;
&#x202b;
&#x202b;
@Mahmoud_EGY @MooshMoosh @JUBA @al-Hasani @BLACKEAGLE @Arabian Legend @Mosamania

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## Jihad_

Yzd Khalifa said:


> The Mullahs are the biggest hypocrites of all time. They stood with all year long, but now they are saying something else.
> 
> Poor mullahs! They spent a wealth on the MB



We can say the same about Saudi Arabia though.



> Morsy's real challenge is to reassure a visibly nervous Saudi Arabia, which lost its key ally Hosni Mubarak to Egypt's popular uprising. In an effort to secure Saudi aid, Morsy has done all the right things: pledging not to export Egypt's revolution, describing the Gulf countries' security as a "red line" that should not be crossed, and making the kingdom his first foreign destination as president last week.
> 
> The Shiite question is just one of several reasons why the Saudis worry about the future of Egypt. Long before Morsy's election, the Saudis were nervous that Shiite Iran would exploit Egypt's transition. Although Egypt and Iran severed diplomatic relations in 1980 because of Egypt's close relationship with Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi and its signing of a peace treaty with Israel, the two countries have maintained economic ties. One example is the Misr Iran Development Bank, a joint venture that was founded in 1975 and survived the next 30 years of turmoil in the Egyptian-Iranian relationship. Today, U.S. Treasury officials suspect that Iran may use the bank as a means of skirting international sanctions on its nuclear program.
> 
> Saudi anxieties only deepened in February when Egypt allowed Iranian naval ships to pass through the Suez Canal -- an act Mubarak's regime prohibited. In May, Morsy said that he hoped to have "relations" with Iran during a televised interview with Egypt's CBC network, though he was careful to not specify what type of relationship he wants with Iran and to emphasize that the relationship would not come at the expense of Gulf countries' security (Iran's Fars News Agency later quoted Morsy as saying that he wanted to strengthen ties with Iran to strike a strategic "balance" in the Middle East, in a purported interview that Morsy vehemently denies giving).
> 
> In response to these growing concerns, the kingdom is doing what it always does: throwing petrodollars at the problem. In June, the Saudis gave Cairo $1.5 billion toward the state budget (the Financial Times has reported that the Egyptian government expects a budget deficit this year of 7.6 percent). The kingdom, which currently funds more than 2,300 projects in Egypt and maintains investments there that are estimated to be worth anywhere from $12 billion to $27 billion, also provided Cairo with a $750 million credit for Saudi oil imports, $230 million for a range of water and agriculture projects, and $200 million for Egyptian businesses.
> 
> These goodwill gestures come on the heels of an April spat in which the Saudis arrested Egyptian lawyer Ahmed al-Gizawy on charges of smuggling narcotics into the kingdom, sparking large-scale protests near the Saudi embassy in Cairo. In response, Riyadh quickly postponed negotiations over a $2.7 billion aid package to Egypt, closed its embassy and consulates in the country, and recalled its ambassador.
> 
> For Egypt, which is battling an official unemployment rate of around 12.6 percent, ending the dispute was critical. An estimated 1.6 million Egyptians work in the kingdom and provide important remittances to their families back home -- the Central Bank of Egypt estimated that these remittance flows amounted to $785 million in 2006. And bilateral trade between the countries reached a record $1.2 billion during the first quarter of 2012, with Egyptian exports to Saudi Arabia totaling $528 million.
> 
> Eventually, the Saudis restored relations and agreed to deposit $1 billion in Egypt's central bank and sign other financial agreements, but not until a Brotherhood-led parliamentary delegation traveled to Riyadh and apologized directly to King Abdullah. As for Gizawy, he remains in a Saudi prison and is slated to stand trial this Wednesday.
> 
> Amid all this, the Saudis remain deeply ambivalent about Morsy. Since his election victory, Saudi and Saudi-owned pan-Arab news outlets have complained that challenger Ahmed Shafiq's campaign was undermined by mistrust and intimidation, and that Iran may be able to manipulate Morsy. They have also questioned Morsy's current affiliation with the Brotherhood, in light of his resignation from the group after assuming the presidency, and one paper speculated that he might mishandle touchy foreign-policy issues such as clamping down on "Tehran's support for local groups and attempts to spread the Shiite ideology" in Egypt.
> 
> The Saudi-Brotherhood relationship has always been complicated. The Saudi royals -- led by King Abdullah, who is formally known as the "Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques" -- fancy themselves the leaders of the global Muslim community, and rely on clerics to shore up their rule and command political submission from their people.
> 
> The Brotherhood, by contrast, originated in Egypt as a response to Western colonialism and decadence, which its founder, Hassan al-Banna, felt were degrading Muslim societies. The Brotherhood relies on religious pretexts to advance a populist political movement.
> 
> In the 1950s and 1960s, the Saudis embraced their common ground with the Brotherhood, encouraging thousands of its members to emigrate from Egypt, Iraq, and Syria to the kingdom as a means of counteracting Egyptian leader Gamal Abdel Nasser's pan-Arab socialist advances. The Brothers quickly became influential in Saudi society and particularly in the education system, where they composed a large portion of the university faculty.
> 
> At first, the alliance was mutually beneficial, but Brotherhood activists soon challenged the kingdom's political establishment. The most infamous byproduct of Saudi exposure to the Brotherhood was Osama bin Laden himself, who took inspiration from Palestinian Brother and ****** theorist Abdullah Azzam's lectures in Jeddah during the early 1980s. After the outbreak of the first Gulf War in 1991, the Saudis suffered another Brotherhood-induced headache from the Sahwa ("Awakening") clerics, a group of ultraconservative Islamists who directly challenged the monarchy over the "infidel" U.S. military presence on the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> After the Sept. 11 attacks, the late Saudi Crown Prince Nayef blamed all his country's problems on the Brotherhood. Those charges only intensified in 2003 when bin Laden's foot soldiers carried out attacks inside the kingdom for the first time. In the ensuing years, the Saudis appeared to regain the upper hand in their struggle to contain "deviant" interpretations of Islam, breaking up local al Qaeda cells, arresting or killing suspected militants, launching a "counter-radicalization" program, and monitoring thousands of mosques, schools, and websites.
> 
> But the Arab uprisings that began last year reversed that momentum, toppling several Saudi allies and heralding the rise of Brotherhood movements across the Middle East. The Saudis reacted with immediate alarm. Following Mubarak's overthrow, according to Egypt Independent, the Saudi government pulled all public school books that mentioned Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna from circulation because they incited "violence."
> 
> With this troubled Saudi-Brotherhood relationship hanging over his head, Morsy is walking a delicate line with Riyadh. The Saudis are ambivalent about his Islamist credentials, but they also want to thwart Iranian aspirations in the Arab world. Their main goal now is to pull the new Egypt into their sphere of influence.
> 
> Luckily for them, Morsy desperately needs Saudi money to repair Egypt's economy and has virtually no choice but to accept the terms that come with it. Unlike Iran, the Saudis are free to sell their oil. And for now, they have Morsy exactly where they want him: over a barrel.



Oh, Brother - By Steven Miller | Foreign Policy


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## Yzd Khalifa

Jihad_ said:


> We can say the same about Saudi Arabia though.



Please try to understand what I'm getting at. I said Iran spent a tremendous amount of money on the *MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD*. KSA economic assistance is for the *EGYPTIAN PEOPLE*. 

Got it?

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## Arabian Legend

Indeed Yzd, Not only the King but also the Saudi people themselves strongly side with egypt in whatever matter. We the people of KSA hold Egypt and the Egyptian people in high regard and will not let them down in any time or place. 


Egypt is &#8216;stable,&#8217; head of army tells Saudi king

King calls for wisdom and caution in Egypt

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## Jihad_

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Please try to understand what I'm getting at. I said Iran spent a tremendous amount of money on the *MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD*. KSA economic assistance is for the *EGYPTIAN PEOPLE*.
> 
> Got it?



They were getting cozy with the MB as well. Now they pretend they're happy with the coup. It's just show, cuz they're in the dark, don't know who's gonna rule next. And want to shrug off they we're 'secretly' allies. 

Now they need to start over again in trying to seek influence.


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## RazPaK

Egyptians made a big mistake.

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## Jihad_

Arabian Legend said:


> Indeed Yzd, Not only the King but also the Saudi people themselves strongly side with egypt in whatever matter. We the people of KSA hold Egypt and the Egyptian people in high regard and will not let them down in any time or place.
> 
> 
> Egypt is &#8216;stable,&#8217; head of army tells Saudi king
> 
> King calls for wisdom and caution in Egypt



I get angry when i see things like this:

Saudi prince reportedly spends $20 million at Disneyland Paris - latimes.com

When there's this and then clamining to stand with people.

Poverty Growing in Saudi Arabia | Saudi Trades

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## Arabian Legend

Jihad_ said:


> I get angry when i see things like this:
> 
> Saudi prince reportedly spends $20 million at Disneyland Paris - latimes.com
> 
> When there's this and then clamining to stand with people.
> 
> Poverty Growing in Saudi Arabia | Saudi Trades



This thread is about Egypt, your post is off topic. If you feel you want to discuss what you posted open a new thread about it, and I will gladly response to you. Second, all poverty articles are void, Saudi Arabia don't share any information or statistic in that regard with anyone. As for the Prince, his money, his life...

Peace.

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

What juntas supporter Morons want more from USA?. USA has already officially declared his support to juntas at high level by not recognizing that military intervention as an military coup.
That is not enough? Why do you still blame USA? Do you demand Us army come to Egypt to fight against MB along side with your junta army since you feel fear of frustration of your remnants of Mubarak junta?

There is no border and limits of stupidity. Go ahead you morons!

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## Hussein

Yzd Khalifa said:


> The Mullahs are the biggest hypocrites of all time. They stood with all year long, but now they are saying something else.
> 
> Poor mullahs! They spent a wealth on the MB


It has really nothing to do with Ayatollahs and Mullahs . 
Khatami is a powerful one because he is very fidel to Khamenei. He is one of the key figure in Iran and very famous for his stupid speechs. His speech is only concerning himself his stupidity and the stupidity of the leader.. not Iran and not Iranian religious people.

Don't forget this: if Khamenei thinks you should wear green jacket all these fiedl hard lines will say you should wear green jacket as a message of God.  oh sorry... as a message of twelve imam

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## iranigirl2

*Israel, Saudi Arabia and US preparing a coup in Egypt *

Wednesday, 13 February 2013 15:09 



Imperialism and Israel have never reconciled themselves to the 2011 overthrow of their client Mubarakist regime in Egypt. Israel and the US perfectly understand that not only is Egypt the most populous Arab state but it is the decisive one from the point of view of any military confrontation with the Zionist state.

The Saudi Arabian dictatorship, concerned above all with its own survival, is terrified by any unrest in the Arab world and looks to the US and Israel as the only reliable pillars to support it. 



None of them consider the moderate Muslim Brotherhood dominated presidency of Mohamed Morsi radical. But nothing other than the purest of client regimes in Egypt is acceptable to the US, Israel or Saudi Arabia. They are therefore determined to restore a Mubarakist regime, without the former dictator, in Egypt.

This is the background to the recent disorder in Egypt, where violent demonstrations in the main cities have left more than sixty dead and thousands injured. Rioting has been widespread, the Presidential Palace in Cairo assaulted with Molotov cocktails and guns fired at a prison, police stations and court house in Port Said.

It is clear that Egypt&#8217;s security forces, which are still dominated by supporters of Mubarakism, stood aside in a number of these violent attacks. Armed protestors were allowed to rampage and create chaos.

The clear aim is to create conditions in which the army and security forces can carry out a coup d&#8217;etat utilising the claim that the country is descending into chaos and therefore they have no option than to step in to &#8216;save the country&#8217;.

This goal is now beginning to be made explicit. The week before last the Army warned it may seize political control. Raising the need to restore order, its chief, Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi, who is also Defence Minister, pronounced that &#8216;the political strife is pushing the state to the brink of collapse.&#8217;

President Morsi has handed control of three provinces to the military; Port Said, Ismailia and Suez are now declared subject to a state of emergency.

However, the army and other Mubarakist forces in the security services are not yet able to stage a coup, as the opposition to themselves and corresponding support for Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood is still too strong. Therefore the Mubarakists strategic aim is to deepen the chaos and therefore create more favourable conditions for a coup.

Egypt&#8217;s unfolding economic crisis

The background to these events is Egypt&#8217;s steadily worsening economic situation and slide towards open financial crisis. The country is running out of the foreign currency it requires to import basic necessities.

It is estimated that reserves will barely cover three months of the currently inadequate level of fuel and food imports.

Overall the economic situation is deteriorating. GDP growth has slowed from 7.2 per cent in 2008 to an estimated 1.5 per cent in 2012. Industrial output and employment continued falling in the second half of last year. As a result Egypt&#8217;s currency (Egyptian pound) is rapidly losing value, having dropped nearly 10 per cent already this year.

Egypt&#8217;s government currently needs a significant inflow of funds to avoid a crisis. Recent loans from Qatar ($2.5bn) and Turkey ($2bn) have provided some relief. Iran&#8217;s President Ahmadinejad last week also offered a credit line.

But those with the greatest access to funds are deliberately holding back from providing support as their aim is to destabilise the situation in Egypt in order to prepare a coup.

Israel, Saudi Arabia and US

Saudi Arabia sits on immense reserves from its oil revenues, which last year left its government with a budget surplus of $102bn. A fraction of this would halt the Egyptian crisis, but it is not on offer.

US assistance, which is part of an IMF loan package, is also currently on hold. This IMF loan of $4.8 billion has been agreed and will unblock an additional $9bn of funds, but is not being released.

Whilst this loan is due to provide Egypt with much needed up-front funds, the punitive conditions attached will impose further hardship on the population. Austerity measures of tax hikes and subsidy reductions have been &#8216;backloaded&#8217; to start later this year.

In short those who want Egypt&#8217;s regime changed back are weakening its government by holding back the funds it needs.

The goals of Israel, the US and Saudi Arabia are clear. Whatever its moderation the Muslim Brotherhood Presidency has weakened the power of the US, Israel, Saudi axis in the region.

Whilst President Morsi does not intend to overturn the fundamentals of the Israel-Egypt Treaty, he did constrain Israel&#8217;s recent assault on Gaza and has helped to strengthen Hamas.

Morsi&#8217;s discussions with China and the rapprochement with Iran, both of which differ from the pure clientalism of Mubarak, are not desirable for imperialism or Israel.

The Muslim Brotherhood&#8217;s advance in the region has also bolstered opposition movements in the Gulf States, a process the Saudi monarchy wants to reverse.

Muslim Brotherhood government

The election of President Morsi last June, decisively defeating the former regime candidate, naturally led to imperialism seeking ways to influence the Muslim Brotherhood &#8211; which imperialism perfectly understands is not a radical anti-imperialist force. But this is purely an enforced tactical shift. Nothing other than a pure client state is strategically acceptable for imperialism in Egypt.

So far Morsi has been able to rely on substantial popular support against the Mubarakists. His constitutional changes were endorsed &#8211; the Referendum result was 63.8 per cent &#8216;for&#8217; and 36.2 per cent &#8216;against&#8217;, on a turnout of 32.9 per cent. This is too wide a margin of popular support for Morsi, and against the Mubarakists, to risk an immediate coup.

Hence the need to promote economic and political chaos to prepare better conditions for a coup.

Of course the Muslim Brotherhood, having no solution to the country&#8217;s economic crisis, also permits the economic chaos to deepen. Without financial support from either imperialism or Saudi Arabia, solving the economic situation would require measures going against significant capitalist interests. As the Brotherhood itself is allied to sections of Egyptian capital, it is not even considering such steps.

Therefore discontent has been spreading. Since last Autumn waves of protest have been escalating, and these followed on from a summer strike wave. This discontent will deepen as living standards continue to decline.

The reality of Egyptian &#8216;secularism&#8217;

When President Morsi issued the constitutional decree granting himself powers to overrule the Mubarakist judiciary last November, followed by the constitutional referendum, pro-imperialist forces took advantage of the political confusion on the issues to bring some left forces in Egypt under their political leadership.

Mubarak-era minister Amr Moussa and the pro-Western liberal Mohamed El Baradei used the banner of &#8216;secularism&#8217; to bring &#8216;left&#8217; nationalist Hamdeen Sabahi into a &#8216;National Salvation Front&#8217; to oppose Morsi. They forced Morsi to retreat from his constitutional decree and have organised the protests demanding Morsi hand over power.

As the Mubarakists well understand that the only force strong enough to take over from Morsi at present is the army this was regarded as a partial victory by imperialism &#8211; although one then nullified by the outcome of the referendum itself.

The Mubarakists are using sections of the Egyptian left to cover over their own goals. At last June&#8217;s Presidential election final round &#8216;left&#8217; nationalist Sabahi, who had come third in first round, declined to endorse Morsi. He claimed the choice between the Muslim Brotherhood and Mubarak&#8217;s former prime minister Ahmed Shafik was between a &#8216;tyranny in the name of the state&#8217; and &#8216;tyranny in the name of religion&#8217; &#8211; a position which totally neglected the real alignment of social forces in Egypt, which is one in which imperialism and Mubarakism were solidly supporting Shafik.

The NSF strategy is to create disorder and prepare conditions for a coup. Its coordinator, Mohamed ElBaradei, tweeted last week: &#8216;Writing on wall: violence & chaos will continue until Morsi & co. listen 2 ppl's demands&#8217;. Such calls are used by the Mubarak loyalists within the alliance, and by the security forces, to build up the case that the army will have to step in to &#8216;restore order&#8217;.

In these preparations for a coup Israel, Saudi Arabia and US will doubtless not only be objectively coordinating with the Mubarakists but also helping guide their actions.

There are still formidable obstacles for imperialism and its clients in Egypt. The memory of the revolution, and of the craven and vile dictatorship of Mubarak is recent, the results of the referendum show forces opposed to Mubarakism still have a significant majority.

But there should be no illusions. Israel, the US, and Saudi Arabia are attempting to prepare the conditions for a Mubarakist coup d&#8217;etat in Egypt.

The chief task of the left is to do everything possible to prevent this strategy being crowned by success.


Israel, Saudi Arabia and US preparing a coup in Egypt


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## Yzd Khalifa

Khatami is a good guy, we never had a good relations with Iran till he and Rafsanjani came to office. 


Hussein said:


> Khatami is a powerful one
> 
> *Don't forget this: if Khamenei thinks you should wear green jacket all these fiedl hard lines will say you should wear green jacket as a message of God.  oh sorry... as a message of twelve imam*


^ 
I'm quite well-aware of that, this is what I despise the Mullahs' regime for, they treat the Iranian people like animals.

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## Imran Khan

Hussein said:


> Don't forget this: if Khamenei thinks you should wear green jacket all these fiedl hard lines will say you should wear green jacket as a message of God.  oh sorry... as a message of twelve imam



its called discipline of force

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## Yzd Khalifa

@iranigirl2 

Israel and the US lost a guy who helped them to destroy the tunnels Hamas was using to summon weapons to Gaza among other things. 

The US's was extermely disturbed by the coup.


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## Hussein

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Khatami is a good guy, we never had a good relations with Iran till he and Rafsanjani came to office.


he is not the same "Khatami": one was president and not Ayatollah, another one is Ayatollah

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## pkuser2k12

*Egypt clashes kill 30, injure 1,138​*






Egypt's Ambulance Authority head says the clashes in the North African country have killed 30 people and injured 1,138 others. 


PressTV - ?Egypt clashes kill 30, injure 1,138?​


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## Falcon29

Yzd Khalifa said:


> @iranigirl2
> 
> Israel and the US lost a guy who helped them to destroy the tunnels Hamas was using to summon weapons to Gaza among other things.
> 
> The US's was extermely disturbed by the coup.



Actually, that was the military, which prevents goods and humanitarian basic needs from getting in to Gaza. Since Egypt regularly closes the only border here. And the tunnels to get weapons will never go away, and as if its a bad thing to defend yourself by acquiring weapons. 

You constantly refer to one of Gaza's major lifeline as a interest of Egypt when in reality it is the total opposite. The Sinai was literally almost abandoned by Egypt until Hamas created a economy there and Egyptians made money of the Palestinians who pay for all their needs. That's why th Egyptian military has many enemies in the region. They left the people to rot and now the people take matters into their own hands. 

Most Egyptian soldiers are good people, the problem is their chain if command which makes counter productive moves at some points but they also make necessary moves. But, this isn't one of them.

And yesterday the Hamas military wing gave a warning to Egyptian forces to back away from our lifeline. They fired mortars at caterpillar seeking to destroy a tunnel. 

Some things go too far and people her won't risk their lifeline for a military that now acts different.

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## The SiLent crY

Egypt revolution failed because they didn't have a leader and couldn't end foreigners influence . Poor Arabs , The US playing them like a toy and they're happy .


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## MooshMoosh

Yzd Khalifa said:


> *Israel and the US lost a guy who helped them* to destroy the tunnels Hamas was using to summon weapons to Gaza among other things.
> 
> The US's was extermely disturbed by the coup.


Not true.Who does US wants? MB, Mubarak regime or second Mubarak regime (socialist opposition) who suppressed Muslims for 30 years? MB wasn't friend with Israel and never said a single word with them. We all know America is controlled by Zionist so does that makes them happy? there was several videos of MB using anti American rhetorics, this never happened under Mubarak. Also, the opposition met Peres so how does America feels? How does America feels when after the coup, the army shut down the Gaza Rafah border, closed down the Islamic channels and sent the politicians back in prison? It's obvious they supported the coup like Israel, Gulf and Jordanian royals. The only one who condemned it "truly" was Turkey. Typical media propaganda, America needs to STFU.

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## Arabian Legend

S00R3NA said:


> Egypt revolution failed because they didn't have a leader and couldn't end foreigners influence . Poor Arabs , The US playing them like a toy and they're happy .



And will be more happier if you get the F@K off our face.

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## agentny17

Sedqal said:


> A teary eyed plea to America? *sniff* freedom is such a wonderful thing


The US supports Egypt with $1.5 Billion a year. We would like to keep this support coming especially in this hard economic situation.

Also, the US is supporting a regime that doesn't respect human rights, and they need to stop. The US is an influenced country and we need them to stand by their values.

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## MooshMoosh

October Bridge battle between opponent and supporters. Nothing calmed now, it's still raging.

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## Imran Khan

S00R3NA said:


> Egypt revolution failed because they didn't have a leader and couldn't end foreigners influence . Poor Arabs , The US playing them like a toy and they're happy .



lolz better then worshiping leader imam as god

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## Sedqal

^ If opposition had any sense they wouldn't have created a divide of this magnitude within Egypt. They have opened the Pandora's box, most likely a new Mubarik is in the making. The only hope is that somehow opposition, army and judiciary will convince MB to join the next govt as a coalition partner which is very highly unlikely.

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## Imran Khan

Sedqal said:


> ^ If opposition had any sense they wouldn't have created a divide of this magnitude within Egypt. They have opened the Pandora's box, most likely a new Mubarik is in the making. The only hope is that somehow opposition, army and judiciary will convince MB to join the next govt as a coalition partner which is very highly unlikely.


 why should MB lose 100% power and join as 15% partner in power ? this huge mistake leads egypt nowhere . its happen on first elected gov . you think now anyone can rule egypt with peace? no way . now no one will respect of mandate .

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## Developereo

MooshMoosh said:


> October Bridge battle between opponent and supporters. Nothing calmed now, it's still raging.



Sad. Rest in peace.

The anti-democracy Saudi and American stooges are destroying yet another country.
Many Egyptians will be sacrificed until they get Mubarak #2 installed.

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## agentny17

fallstuff said:


> What freedom did Morsi take away ?
> 
> What specifics laws were introduced jeopardizing equality ?
> 
> 
> What human rights were violated ?



Too many.... 
1) The constitution doesn't protect any human rights, freedom of speech, and belief, and equality against the law. Saying that, Morsi didn't even respect the constitution. 
2) He ordered his supporters to surround the supreme court before it made its verdict about the legitimacy of the constitutional assembly. 
3)More than a 1000 people have been jailed because of what they said or believed since Morsi became president. 
4) Encouraging violence against Christians, Shias, Liberals, Seculars and other minorities including calling them infidels and praying to God to destroy them in the presence of Morsi which led to a massacre against Shias. 
5) Election laws don't give anybody but the Muslim Brotherhood a chance in any Parliamentary elections. 
6) Some laws like decriminalizing Female genital mutilation, criminalizing criticizing the president(Some people are already in Jail for this), ect..
and so many more things.. I can go all day

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## MooshMoosh

Developereo said:


> Sad. Rest in peace.
> 
> The anti-democracy Saudi and American stooges are destroying yet another country.
> Many Egyptians will be sacrificed until *they get Mubarak #2 installed.*



take a look at 0:47 police with AVC doing nothing and 2:11 they started to intervene after Pro Morsi retreated. People died in this clash while the forces do nothing and clashes still going on, people being injured yet people are "over excited" for the coup?

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## Arabian Legend

Developereo said:


> Sad. Rest in peace.
> 
> The anti-democracy Saudi and American stooges are destroying yet another country.
> Many Egyptians will be sacrificed until they get Mubarak #2 installed.



Sorry but what Saudi Arabia has to do with this. what happened was due to the will of the Egyptian people and we strongly side with them. Morsi has gone now to the disposal of history so, stop crying.

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## Sedqal

MooshMoosh said:


> take a look at 0:47 police with AVC doing nothing and 2:11 they started to intervene after Pro Morsi retreated. People died in this clash while the forces do nothing and clashes still going on, people being injured yet people are "over excited" for the coup?



If history is to go by Army would let it go unless things become so bad that public will welcome a Martial Law. Its highly amusing that opposition failed to see that they will pit Egyptians against Egyptians, Egypt will lose no matter who wins.

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## Developereo

Arabian Legend said:


> Sorry but what Saudi Arabia has to do with this. what happened was due to the will of the Egyptian people and we strongly side with them. Morsi has gone now to the disposal of history so, stop crying.



It was the will of a vocal minority, but there is no proof it was the majority.

As for the Saudi angle, did you forget this thread?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...ngratulates-egypts-new-interim-president.html


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## Imran Khan

Developereo said:


> It was the will of a vocal minority, but there is no proof it was the majority.
> 
> As for the Saudi angle, did you forget this thread?
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...ngratulates-egypts-new-interim-president.html



my dear let me tell you one thing here 

saudis have no goals but they follow what we did . 

saudi king faysal best friend of pakistan at bhutto time 
saudi king khalid best ally at bhutto zia time
saudi king fahad best ally friend of zia - nawaz - benazeer gov
saudi king fahad best ally of mushy
saudi king abdullah best ally friend of mushraaf - now nawaz 

tell me what are differences here ? bhutto - zia - nawaz - benazeer - mushrraf - zardari - are they one and united? saudi care their interests and they follow winds change of gov in any country didn't effect there friendship its apply on USA to Japan .  its called successful foreign policy 


faysal in pakistan on bhutto times






zia and saudia we all know 





nawaz and saudi 





mushraf and saudi 






dog and saudi 





gellani in saudi VVIP protocol

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## fallstuff

agentny17 said:


> Too many....
> 1) The constitution doesn't protect any human rights, freedom of speech, and belief, and equality against the law. Saying that, Morsi didn't even respect the constitution.
> 2) He ordered his supporters to surround the supreme court before it made its verdict about the legitimacy of the constitutional assembly.
> 3)More than a 1000 people have been jailed because of what they said or believed since Morsi became president.
> 4) Encouraging violence against Christians, Shias, Liberals, Seculars and other minorities including calling them infidels and praying to God to destroy them in the presence of Morsi which led to a massacre against Shias.
> 5) Election laws don't give anybody but the Muslim Brotherhood a chance in any Parliamentary elections.
> 6) Some laws like decriminalizing Female genital mutilation, criminalizing criticizing the president(Some people are already in Jail for this), ect..
> and so many more things.. I can go all day



1) I hope you did take a look at the new constitution as approved by the 64% of the people. I did read the basics of the Constitution. It does assert human right to dignity, life, and pursuit of happiness in general.

2) You actually have evidence to show that Morsi ordered MB to surround the supreme court ?

3) I don't recall reading any U.S sate department release noting that opponents are being put to jail by the thousands.
I will just add MB took the brunt of the Sadat and Mubarak regimes political tortures. They do have a few axes to grind. 

4) Violance between Copts and some Muslim in certain regions is nothing new. The guy does not have a magic wand to wave and solve the ills of the society. 

5) They are the most known and the biggest party. This is what they gained in return for torture and murder by the Mubarak like regimes for decades. They simply earned it. You gotta face'em politically to lessen their hold. 

I was hoping you would point more specific examples, laws or statues that deemed so tyrannical in nature. What you wrote is very common in nascent democracy, this is how everywhere it starts. 

You have no idea how the two ladies ( the PM and the opposition chief) in Bangladesh acts after being at it for more than two decades since the early 90s.

1) Hasina Govt just took down the trusted interim care-taking govt that serves between general elections against the wishes of the people.

2) She shuts down buses, trains or other public transportation so oppostion can't do what you did in Tahir square.

3) Her regimes just simply pick-up opposition leaders never to be seen again.

4) She recently killed hundreds of opposition activists using the state apparatuses. 

I can go on and on. But thats just how it is in the Representative form Govt taking baby steps. It takes decades to build these institutions.

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## Developereo

Imran Khan said:


> saudis have no goals but they follow what we did .



Both the Saudis and the Iranians are playing their stupid games to gain influence in the region.

I am not taking sides between the Saudis and the Iranians -- they are both wrong -- but the people of third countries end up dying.


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## MooshMoosh

Imran Khan said:


> faysal



   the only true king of Saudi Arabia


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## Sedqal

MooshMoosh said:


> the only true king of Saudi Arabia



He is highly respected in Pakistan too.

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## Ceylal

The Algerian Islamists close to the brotherhood, want their brother in faith to refrain from violence.






* I guess a lesson well learn they got from these two men*











Events from a caricaturist perspective





Yesterday pictures..
Jour d'meutes au Caire

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## MooshMoosh

Egyptian army fired live bullets and people stopped fled their prayers. They took it too far.

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## MooshMoosh

Kicked a Pro Morsi supporter out of the car with supplies for the supporters and burnt it.

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## Imran Khan

Sedqal said:


> He is highly respected in Pakistan too.



yes largest mosque in pakistan king faysal mosque






he visit many visits to pakistan















in lahore






with ayoub khan 






faysalabad pakistani city on his name










Faisal road karachi

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## MooshMoosh

A clear view

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## Imran Khan

MooshMoosh said:


> A clear view



intolerant nation can't accept defeat in election and start war for results lolzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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## kalu_miah

MooshMoosh said:


> A clear view



Thanks for the great videos.

What is the role of Coptic Christians in the recent protest and Army coup?


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## kalu_miah

Islam, democracy and soldiers: Egypt

Egypts tragedy

Muhammad Morsi was incompetent, but his ouster should be cause for regret, not celebration
Jul 6th 2013 |From the print edition

WHEN Muhammad Morsi was elected president of Egypt a year ago, this newspaper was wary. As fervent supporters of liberal democracy, we are uncomfortable with the belief of the Muslim Brotherhood, Mr Morsis party, that politics are subsidiary to religion, and are downright hostile to the attitudes towards women and minorities that pervade the Islamist movement. We would have preferred the secularists who led Egypts revolution to have won. Yet we recognised that Mr Morsis 52% of the votea stronger endorsement than Barack Obama got five months latergave him the right to rule. And, most of all, we were delighted that after 30 years of dictatorship, Egypt was on its way to becoming a democracy.

That is why we regard the events of the past few days with trepidation. Mr Morsis ouster by a combination of street power and soldiers sets a dreadful precedent for the region. The army, which is in part responsible for the situation, must start Egypt on the path towards new elections as swiftly as possible, or the prospects for the country will be bleak.

Post-Morsem

Mr Morsis rule started unravelling when crowds massed in the streets of Egypts cities on June 30th, the first anniversary of his time in power. The protests turned violent; the Brotherhoods headquarters were burned; 48 people have died. On July 1st, the army gave Mr Morsi 48 hours to resolve his dispute with his opponents. Mr Morsi responded by defending his legitimacy and refusing to step down. On July 3rd, the chief of army staff, General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, announced that the constitution had been suspended. Mr Morsi was taken into military custody.

Most of the blame for the disaster that has befallen Egyptian democracy lies with Mr Morsi. The very size of the protestssome estimates claim that as many as 14m took to the streetsshows that his opponents were not a small bunch of discontents. Most of the country seems to have turned against him. One reason for that is his incompetence. He did nothing to rescue the economy from looming collapse. The Egyptian pound and foreign exchange reserves have both dwindled, inflation is rising and unemployment among those under 24 is more than 40%. The IMF has despaired of agreeing on a big loan that would have opened the way to others. In the broiling summer heat, electricity cuts have become maddeningly frequent. Queues for petrol have lengthened. Farmers are often not being paid for their wheat. Crime has soaredthe murder rate has tripled since the revolution.

The Brothers failure to include a wide range of views in its first government was even more foolish. Egypt, at the best of times, is hard to govern because society is polarised. Secular-minded and better-educated Egyptians generally want the country to be dragged into a modern, pluralistic and outward-looking world. A more conservative and religious stratum looks to political Islam rather than socialism or capitalism as the answer to centuries of injustice, inequality and corruption. In addition, Egypt has a large and nervous minority of Christians, perhaps a tenth of the populace of 84m, along with a much smaller minority of Shia Muslims, both of whom have been rattled by an Islamist government.

Instead of trying to build up the independent institutionsthe courts, the media, a neutral civil service, army and policethat check the power of government in mature democracies, Mr Morsi did his best to undermine them. He legislated through a senate that was elected by only 10% of the voters. He made false, inept or cowardly choices at every turn, finagling constitutional issues, pushing fellow Brothers into key appointments and feeding the secularists fears that his brethren were determined, by hook or by crook, to Islamise every aspect of society. He stayed silent when bigots and thugs threatened and attacked religious minorities. He allowed foreigners working for advocacy groups promoting human rights and democracy to be hounded, prosecuted and convicted (most of them in absentia) on patently false charges.

That so many Egyptians should wish to get rid of Mr Morsi is therefore entirely understandable. That they have succeeded in doing so could well turn out to be a disaster, and not just for Egypt.

The precedent that Mr Morsis ouster sets for other shaky democracies is a terrible one. It will encourage the disaffected to try to eject governments not by voting them out but by disrupting their rule. It will create an incentive for oppositions all over the Arab world to pursue their agendas on the streets, not in parliaments. It thus will reduce the chance of peace and prosperity across the region.

It also sends a dreadful message to Islamists everywhere. The conclusion they will draw from events in Egypt is that, if they win power in elections, their opponents will use non-democratic means to oust them. So if they are allowed to come to office, they will very likely do their damnedest to cement their power by fair means or foul. Crush your opponents could well be their motto.

How to make it less bad

That damage is done, and cannot be undone. But there are better, and worse, ways for the story to unfold. If the army holds on to power, then Egypt will be back where it was before Hosni Mubarak was oustedbut without the hope that prevails before revolution has been tried and has failed. If the army announces a timetable for elections and sticks to it, then Egypt has a chance. The soldiers will need to make credible promises to the Islamists that if they win (which, given their performance over the past year, the Brothers are unlikely to) they will be allowed to take power. Persuading them of that will be hard: holding an election quickly would help.

Egypts army played a pivotal role in the revolution, standing by while people power pushed Mr Mubarak out. It still has the trust of many Egyptians, who are still inclined to turn towards it in times of crisis. If the generals are to repay that trust, they must get the country back on the path towards democracy as swiftly as possible.

From the print edition: Leaders


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## Frogman

> 1) I hope you did take a look at the new constitution as approved by the 64% of the people. I did read the basics of the Constitution. It does assert human right to dignity, life, and pursuit of happiness in general.



64% out of 20% of 51 million registered voters. So basically Egypt got a constitution that was supported by just over 10% of the Egyptian public after a scandalous and disgraceful campaign not based upon the constitutions merits but on the (supposed) character and religions of those who oppose it.

Most of the clauses in the Egyptian constitution weren't that bad but there's a select few that could be left to the interpretation of governments. But, this still wasn't the greatest problem. The problem was that many religious factions and parties of differing ideologies left the constitutional assembly as a protest to how the constitution was being written (majority vote, ignoring the minority) and how the Islamist parties were dominating the assembly. So, to begin with the constitution was illegitimate. This lead to the constitutional court deciding that the constitutional assembly should be dissolved and a new one drafted. Dr. Morsi then decided to release the constitutional decree to stop this and push the constitution through while his minions (or the supreme guides minions) surrounded the constitutional court to delay the decision to dissolve the assembly.





> 2) You actually have evidence to show that Morsi ordered MB to surround the supreme court ?



The MB is a hierarchical organization, so, any decision to protest or surround any court is made by their leadership and not a spontaneous act. The same people who decided to surround the constitutional court are now those who fill some of Egypt's streets calling for Morsis return. 



> 3) I don't recall reading any U.S sate department release noting that opponents are being put to jail by the thousands.
> I will just add MB took the brunt of the Sadat and Mubarak regimes political tortures. They do have a few axes to grind.



Egypt: Activist faces jail sentence on bogus charges | Amnesty International

Egypt clamps down on well-known opposition figures | World news | guardian.co.uk

Egyptian activist arrested in Cairo after meeting with officials in Washington | FP Passport

There are many more. Most have not been publicized due to the image (how big they are) of some of the opposition.

The MB bore the brunt of a crackdown because they were the source of terrorist attacks that indiscriminately killed anyone in the attacks vicinity and famously killed a populist leader. Mubarak was afraid they were going to oust him and so he cracked down on them.



> 4) Violance between Copts and some Muslim in certain regions is nothing new. The guy does not have a magic wand to wave and solve the ills of the society.



Yes, but he does have the power to condemn these attacks and not be in the presence of clerics who call for sectarian violence (and say nothing) as he did in that farce of a conference that called for state sponsored Jihadis to go to Syria. 



> 5) They are the most known and the biggest party. This is what they gained in return for torture and murder by the Mubarak like regimes for decades. They simply earned it. You gotta face'em politically to lessen their hold.



No, their political gains are a result of their organization and the ability to mobilize many as a result of their grass roots tactics.

They also failed to meet their social contract with the people. Such things as a government made up of many political and religious figures never materialized (only power grabs occurred) as did many other promises for an inclusive regime.The military spent six months trying to hold reconciliation talks the presidency refused all of them.



> I was hoping you would point more specific examples, laws or statues that deemed so tyrannical in nature. What you wrote is very common in nascent democracy, this is how everywhere it starts.



The presidency itself didn't respect the constitution and common law or the judiciary. Would you expect the citizens of that nation to do the same. There was nothing tyrannical in nature, however, there was an absence of clauses that could prohibit tyranny. Basically, an absence of checks and balances on governmental power. There was also an absence of clauses which dealt with mass protests which withdraw the legitimacy from a president or government and then provide a constitutional process which can lead to a transitional phase or compromise.



> You have no idea how the two ladies ( the PM and the opposition chief) in Bangladesh acts after being at it for more than two decades since the early 90s.
> 
> 1) Hasina Govt just took down the trusted interim care-taking govt that serves between general elections against the wishes of the people.
> 
> 2) She shuts down buses, trains or other public transportation so oppostion can't do what you did in Tahir square.
> 
> 3) Her regimes just simply pick-up opposition leaders never to be seen again.
> 
> 4) She recently killed hundreds of opposition activists using the state apparatuses.
> 
> I can go on and on. But thats just how it is in the Representative form Govt taking baby steps. It takes decades to build these institutions.



Re-valuate the principles of democracy and you would see that the movements in Egypt were democratic. Every nation is different, one nation may welcome a particular action while another may condemn it.

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## kalu_miah

Frogman said:


> 64% out of 20% of 51 million registered voters. So basically Egypt got a constitution that was supported by just over 10% of the Egyptian public after a scandalous and disgraceful campaign not based upon the constitutions merits but on the (supposed) character and religions of those who oppose it.
> 
> Most of the clauses in the Egyptian constitution weren't that bad but there's a select few that could be left to the interpretation of governments. But, this still wasn't the greatest problem. The problem was that many religious factions and parties of differing ideologies left the constitutional assembly as a protest to how the constitution was being written (majority vote, ignoring the minority) and how the Islamist parties were dominating the assembly. So, to begin with the constitution was illegitimate. This lead to the constitutional court deciding that the constitutional assembly should be dissolved and a new one drafted. Dr. Morsi then decided to release the constitutional decree to stop this and push the constitution through while his minions (or the supreme guides minions) surrounded the constitutional court to delay the decision to dissolve the assembly.
> 
> The MB is a hierarchical organization, so, any decision to protest or surround any court is made by their leadership and not a spontaneous act. The same people who decided to surround the constitutional court are now those who fill some of Egypt's streets calling for Morsis return.
> 
> Egypt: Activist faces jail sentence on bogus charges | Amnesty International
> 
> Egypt clamps down on well-known opposition figures | World news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> Egyptian activist arrested in Cairo after meeting with officials in Washington | FP Passport
> 
> There are many more. Most have not been publicized due to the image (how big they are) of some of the opposition.
> 
> The MB bore the brunt of a crackdown because they were the source of terrorist attacks that indiscriminately killed anyone in the attacks vicinity and famously killed a populist leader. Mubarak was afraid they were going to oust him and so he cracked down on them.
> 
> Yes, but he does have the power to condemn these attacks and not be in the presence of clerics who call for sectarian violence (and say nothing) as he did in that farce of a conference that called for state sponsored Jihadis to go to Syria.
> 
> No, their political gains are a result of their organization and the ability to mobilize many as a result of their grass roots tactics.
> 
> They also failed to meet their social contract with the people. Such things as a government made up of many political and religious figures never materialized (only power grabs occurred) as did many other promises for an inclusive regime.The military spent six months trying to hold reconciliation talks the presidency refused all of them.
> 
> The presidency itself didn't respect the constitution and common law or the judiciary. Would you expect the citizens of that nation to do the same. There was nothing tyrannical in nature, however, there was an absence of clauses that could prohibit tyranny. Basically, an absence of checks and balances on governmental power. There was also an absence of clauses which dealt with mass protests which withdraw the legitimacy from a president or government and then provide a constitutional process which can lead to a transitional phase or compromise.
> 
> Re-valuate the principles of democracy and you would see that the movements in Egypt were democratic. Every nation is different, one nation may welcome a particular action while another may condemn it.



You cannot call a coup by Army a democratic step, that is true for any country in the world.

Egyptian constitutional referendum, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> Unofficial results reported on 23 December 2012 found that 32.9% of the electorate voted and that the constitution was approved with 63.8% of the vote in favor over the two rounds of polling.[6]



Why did only 32.9% of electorate voted? If enough of the opposing side came to vote no, the constitution could easily be defeated and a new one could be worked on, no? That would be a proper democratic step, instead of this "protest" supporting and calling for a coup by the Army. Egyptian democracy has now become a joke, I am sorry to say.

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## Frogman

> You cannot call a coup by Army a democratic step, that is true for any country in the world.



The MB had no intentions of building a democratic *process* in Egypt. To them democracy is an event that happens every four years not a continuous process.

The result still stands above ten-twenty percent of the Egyptian electorate, however, the constitution was illegitimate even before being put to a referendum.

The army did not act out of its own accord. It accepted the call of over 17+ million protesters calling for presidential elections and using their only standing democratic institution to call for this, the *street*. If the elected house of parliament was still standing then that could have been used to influence the government and the presidency, however, it isn't so what else did protesters have that they could use for their voices to be heard except the street.



> Why did only 32.9% of electorate voted? If enough of the opposing side came to vote no, the constitution could easily be defeated and a new one could be worked on, no? That would be a proper democratic step, instead of this "protest" supporting and calling for a coup by the Army. Egyptian democracy has now become a joke.



A combination of voter fatigue and apathy as well as wide boycotts. The opposition in the streets over the past week were not only those who opposed the MB since Morsi was elected. The ordinary Egyptian man and woman who had no ideological beliefs or affiliations were what made these protests so big (many of whom voted for Morsi and were sympathetic to the MB). The presidency rejected any amendments(to the constitution) until the day before Morsi was removed (that in itself says something doesn't it).

Democracy is more than a ballot in plastic box.

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## Jihad_

Elbaradei appointed as Egypt's interim PM - Middle East - Al Jazeera English



> "One of the protesters here said that the appointment of ElBaradei is a move directed at appeasing the United States and that he served them well, allowing for the invasion of Iraq when he was in the IAEA and will now be their puppet again - we all know he is a puppet.
> 
> "Another person said that ElBaradei was even too scared to nominate himself in the elections. That's how little support he has - he needed the army to put him in office. So to sum up the mood here: it is rejection, anger and dismissal," Elshayyal said.


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## Devil Soul

An Egyptian protester's body lays on the ground after being shot in front of the Republican Guards headquarters 




A protester's body lays on the ground after being shot by the army in front of the Republican Guards

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## Shapur Zol Aktaf

Go to hell morsi

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## kalu_miah

Frogman said:


> The MB had no intentions of building a democratic *process* in Egypt. To them democracy is an event that happens every four years not a continuous process.
> 
> The result still stands above ten-twenty percent of the Egyptian electorate, however, the constitution was illegitimate even before being put to a referendum.
> 
> The army did not act out of its own accord. It accepted the call of over 17+ million protesters calling for presidential elections and using their only standing democratic institution to call for this, the *street*. If the elected house of parliament was still standing then that could have been used to influence the government and the presidency, however, it isn't so what else did protesters have that they could use for their voices to be heard except the street.
> 
> A combination of voter fatigue and apathy as well as wide boycotts. The opposition in the streets over the past week were not only those who opposed the MB since Morsi was elected. The ordinary Egyptian man and woman who had no ideological beliefs or affiliations were what made these protests so big (many of whom voted for Morsi and were sympathetic to the MB). The presidency rejected any amendments(to the constitution) until the day before Morsi was removed (that in itself says something doesn't it).
> 
> Democracy is more than a ballot in plastic box.



You are right Democracy is definitely more than a ballot box, it is all about empowering people and collectively deciding the future steps.

Lets analyze where things went wrong. Morsi made mistakes. Constitution referendum was boycotted by many people.

Now Army can take the following steps very quickly to restore civilian democratic rule:

1. Bring together all political parties and groups to write a new constitution, and make sure that constitution has a clause that referendum must have a minimum participation rate of lets say 67% (2/3) of the electorate

2. Another clause could be that of impeaching non-performing Presidents in a referendum, and according to this clause, a referendum could be held to impeach Morsi. If impeachment fails then Morsi would be reinstated

More than anything else, the basic fundamental covenant in a democracy is the constitution that at least 67% or two thirds majority (or higher) agree on and the Armed forces are duty bound to protect this constitution as their first loyalty, not any particular political party or religion.

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## farag

Pakistanis are so naive. If you grow beard and say Islam ummah, they will believe in you.

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## hussain0216

Frogman said:


> The MB had no intentions of building a democratic *process* in Egypt. To them democracy is an event that happens every four years not a continuous process.
> 
> The result still stands above ten-twenty percent of the Egyptian electorate, however, the constitution was illegitimate even before being put to a referendum.
> 
> The army did not act out of its own accord. It accepted the call of over 17+ million protesters calling for presidential elections and using their only standing democratic institution to call for this, the *street*. If the elected house of parliament was still standing then that could have been used to influence the government and the presidency, however, it isn't so what else did protesters have that they could use for their voices to be heard except the street.
> 
> 
> 
> A combination of voter fatigue and apathy as well as wide boycotts. The opposition in the streets over the past week were not only those who opposed the MB since Morsi was elected. The ordinary Egyptian man and woman who had no ideological beliefs or affiliations were what made these protests so big (many of whom voted for Morsi and were sympathetic to the MB). The presidency rejected any amendments(to the constitution) until the day before Morsi was removed (that in itself says something doesn't it).
> 
> Democracy is more than a ballot in plastic box.



Pathetic, simply pathetic

You should be ashamed of yourself

Democracy isn't one man one vote, it is one man (or women) one chance to vote

It is pathetic watching you and your liberal ilk trying to legitimise the illegitimate

The bottom line is ovrr 60 percent of egyptian voters voted for the constitution in a referendum and over 50 percent voted for the president
That's it, everyone got a chance to vote and those were the results the same in every other democracy in the world, 

You the losers don't then get to play funny maths with the results afterwards

If your too lazy to vote that's your problem
If your too stupid to not understand the consequences of not voting then that's your problem

You don't sit at home not vote then complain about and play funny maths with the results

THIS IS A COUP
THE LIBERAL TAMAROD SLIME ARE TRAITORS

the military had plans for a takeover in their minds since the beginning, they just needed the right chance

The reality is not just a lack of respect for democracy or the democratic results, it is lntolerence of someone else's views

The liberal slime hate Muslims, hate the brotherhood so hell to democracy or fairness or respect for people vote, lets just create chaos and let the same army who has ruled and caused this mess from the beginning to instigate a coup, who cares as long as muslims are out and the liberals can implement their desires

Pathetic, you people are a joke and I hope the Muslim brothers keep fighting they have the support of every true Muslim and lover of democracy in the world

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## Frogman

> 1. Bring together all political parties and groups to write a new constitution, and make sure that constitution has a clause that referendum must have a minimum participation rate of lets say 67% (2/3) of the electorate



It will be the Interim governments job to draft an assembly to amend the current constitution (it has only been dissolved temporarily). The military contacted the MB in order to involve them in the transitional phase, the MB declined favouring confrontation to bring Morsi back into power. The normal Egyptian man and woman will not sacrifice their rights again(hopefully).



> 2. Another clause could be that of impeaching non-performing Presidents in a referendum, and according to this clause, a referendum could be held to impeach Morsi. If impeachment fails then Morsi would be reinstated


 I agree, adequate checks and balances must be placed on governmental powers.



> More than anything else, the basic fundamental covenant in a democracy is the constitution that at least 67% or two thirds majority (or higher) agree on and the Armed forces are duty bound to protect this constitution as their first loyalty, not any particular political party or religion.



Correct. The armed forces only intervened because of the masses and not a particular party or religion. It enjoyed the same position it did under Mubarak under the MB. It must be brought under civilian oversight but this may take decades.

Thanks for the debate. Peace. If you wish to debate further I will be more than happy to.


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## hussain0216

Some of these liberal excuses are hilarious

"The only reason the Muslim brotherhood won was because they were too organised" 

??????????? So what that's your friken problem get more organised

It's like saying the only reason the Muslim brotherhood won was because they got more votes, if they didn't get more votes they would have lost

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## Luffy 500

The bottom line is liberal suckular scumbags couldn't ever hoped to go to power the legal way and hence opted for a back door coup to get a taste of power. Well Egypt is not the only muslim state that is suffering from these suckular parasites. Fanatic Suckular liberal scums are the biggest problem in the muslim world and they don't technically even fit the western defination secularsim but are outright anti-islamic bigots hell bent to destroy a country from inside. El baradie, Army, Copts and their suckular ilk would do well to remember that 80 years fanatic kelamism, frequent coups, Hanging of PM Adnan Menderes couldn't forment their grip on power in turkey and stop the rise of Islamic and other non-suckular parties. MB won't just vanish but if they play their cards right they can put these zionist suckular filths in their place.

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## scherz

Alexandria:
A mob pushing two of the surrounded group from 5m on the roof.
And attacked repeatly with a stick.

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## hussain0216

I have a feeling the copts are going to get hit hard for their treachery


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## flamer84

kalu_miah said:


> Thanks for the great videos.
> 
> What is the role of Coptic Christians in the recent protest and Army coup?



Allready trying to find the conveniant scapegoats aren't you?

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## Frogman

> Pathetic, simply pathetic
> 
> You should be ashamed of yourself



Ok.



> Democracy isn't one man one vote, it is one man (or women) one chance to vote



Which translate to one man one vote. What is your point in regards to this sentence because its beyond me.



> It is pathetic watching you and your liberal ilk trying to legitimise the illegitimate



I haven't been disrespectful or rude to any who support Morsi or hold a different view than mine, I ask of you to do the same.



> The bottom line is ovrr 60 percent of egyptian voters voted for the constitution in a referendum and over 50 percent voted for the president
> That's it, everyone got a chance to vote and those were the results the same in every other democracy in the world,



The problem with the Egyptian constitution is that it was illegitimate to begin with. With multiple parties and religious figures pulling out of the constitutional assembly it was no longer a constitution drafted and supported by all parties and sects/religions that are present in current day Egyptian society and so it was illegitimate before being put to referendum. Referendums are not legally binding and so can be ignored for example Scottish devolution referendum, 1979 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is universally accepted that if a constitution does not receive major support in a referendum or otherwise then it must go back to the drawing board.

Again, democracy is a *continuous process and not just a ballot in a box.*



> You the losers don't then get to play funny maths with the results afterwards



......



> If your too lazy to vote that's your problem
> If your too stupid to not understand the consequences of not voting then that's your problem



Because of the consecutive elections and referendums there was major voter apathy and fatigue plus boycotts from the opposition as to how this constitution was drafted and put to a referendum, however, I do agree with the general point you are making.



> You don't sit at home not vote then complain about and play funny maths with the results


 If that's aimed at me then I will not reply simply out of respect.



> THIS IS A COUP
> THE LIBERAL TAMAROD SLIME ARE TRAITORS



Tamarod gained 22 million signatures. Are you seriously accusing 22 million Egyptians of treason?



> the military had plans for a takeover in their minds since the beginning, they just needed the right chance


 And who provided this chance on a silver platter. The military also made deals with the MB or don't they remember gathering in Tahrir Sq. supporting military rule in response to those who were against it (and now chant for it, there is hypocrisy on both sides).

The military had been trying to hold reconciliation talks for the past six months and provided a week before the 30th of June, the presidency refused to hold talks and so sealed its own fate. This move certainly wasn't a surprise. 

This may be a coup, but, its a coup as a result of mass protests withdrawing the presidents legitimacy and as the (illegitimate) Egyptian constitution doesn't provide a constitutional process to transition or compromise the military had to step in. 



> The reality is not just a lack of respect for democracy or the democratic results, it is lntolerence of someone else's views



The MB and the presidency had no intention of setting up a democratic *process* in Egypt and its plainly obvious as he acted beyond his mandate and didn't keep his pre-election promises (Didnt carry out what was in his manifesto, also undemocratic). Everyone has the right to free speech as long as it doesn't incite hatred or violence, something the presidency and some today from both sides seem to understand. 



> The liberal slime hate Muslims, hate the brotherhood so hell to democracy or fairness or respect for people vote, lets just create chaos and let the same army who has ruled and caused this mess from the beginning to instigate a coup, who cares as long as muslims are out and the liberals can implement their desires


 Over 85% of Egypt is Muslim. It was a religious nation before Morsi and will be after him.

The first chant "Allahu Akbar"







The Egyptian people will no longer tolerate any political or religious agenda which suppresses their rights or threatens their revolution.



> Pathetic, you people are a joke and I hope the Muslim brothers keep fighting they have the support of every true Muslim and lover of democracy in the world



I seriously have no comment to make about this.



> I have a feeling the copts are going to get hit hard for their treachery



Freedom of speech is allowed as long it doesn't incite hatred or violence....

For someone who talks of democracy and tolerance of other views you do not practice what you preach.



> Some of these liberal excuses are hilarious
> 
> "The only reason the Muslim brotherhood won was because they were too organised"
> 
> ??????????? So what that's your friken problem get more organised
> 
> It's like saying the only reason the Muslim brotherhood won was because they got more votes, if they didn't get more votes they would have lost



Its an explanation of one of the reasons not the only reason.

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## Jihad_

Israel is very happy with the coup and gives the army a warm pat on the back.



> Egypt closes Gaza border crossing indefinitely
> 
> Egyptian army demolishes tunnels with Gaza





> IDF on Sinai border: Security coordination with Egypt continues despite political upheaval
> 
> It's in the interest of both sides to fight terror cells, says liaison officer; 'Egyptians are doing good work.'


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## Frogman

Jihad_ said:


> Israel is very happy with the coup and gives the army a warm pat on the back.




Four reasons why Israel may miss Egypt's Mohammed Morsi after all - Diplomacy & Defense - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

The relationship didn't change under Morsi and may not change under a future regime. However, if a true representational regime is elected after the transitional phase (or phases) then the relationship will ultimately change.


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## Jihad_

An army officer joins a pro morsi demostration


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## Frogman

Jihad_ said:


> An army officer joins a pro morsi demostration



I would advise you to change that statement to:- Alleged armed forces "officer" seen participating in Pro-Morsi rally.

For two reasons:

1- There isn't any conformation that he is an officer or member of the armed forces (No pictures or videos of him showing his military ID). Impersonating a military figure is also illegal.

2- At this current time there are those who want to divide the Egyptian military and its people.

Peace.


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## Jihad_

Frogman said:


> I would advise you to change that statement to:- Alleged armed forces "officer" seen participating in Pro-Morsi rally.
> 
> For two reasons:
> 
> 1- There isn't any conformation that he is an officer or member of the armed forces (No pictures or videos of him showing his military ID). Impersonating a military figure is also illegal.
> 
> 2- *At this current time there are those who want to divide the Egyptian military and its people.*
> 
> Peace.



But they are divided... The army is also divided on the coup... That's what I heard, this is the first real confirmation... Hope many will follow suit...

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## Frogman

Jihad_ said:


> But they are divided... The army is also divided on the coup... That's what I heard, this is the first real confirmation... Hope many will follow suit...



True to an extent in terms of its peoples. However, the military is not divided nor can it nor will it be.

One thing that is surprising to me is that this "officer" is in his formal uniform and not his BDU and there arent any Conscripts or soldiers with him especially at a time when there is major military presence in Egypt. This makes me suspicious. 

Please edit your posts title until there is either confirmation (by way of his ID or statement from the military) that he is indeed an officer or an arrest made with the charge of impersonating a military figure (as many have been over the past few days).


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## Jihad_

> *It is important to understand Washington&#8217;s role, which is carried out by the Pentagon and US intelligence.*
> 
> While the Armed Forces have cracked down on the Muslim Brotherhood, the Coup d&#8217;Etat is ultimately intended to manipulate the protest movement and prevent the accession of a &#8220;real people&#8217;s government&#8221;.
> The overthrow of President Mohamed Morsi by the Egyptian Armed forces was not carried out against US interests, it was instigated to ensure &#8220;continuity&#8221; on behalf of Washington.
> 
> *Defense Minister General Abdul Fatah Al-Sisi who was behind the Coup d&#8217;Etat directed against President Morsi was in permanent liaison by telephone with US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel from the very outset of the protest movement. Press reports confirm that he consulted him several times in the days leading up to the Coup d&#8217;Etat. It is highly unlikely that General Al Sisi would have acted without a &#8216;green light&#8221; from the Pentagon.*
> 
> 
> The Muslim Brotherhood government was supported by the US from the outset. At the same time important sectors of the protest movement directed against the Brotherhood were also supported by the US, through US foundations, including the National Endowment for Democracy and Freedom House. The Kifaya movement, which organized one of the first protests directed against the Mubarak regime in late 2004, and which is currently involved in the movement against the Brotherhood is supported by the US based International Center for Non-Violent Conflict.
> 
> 
> These actions by US foundations linked to the US State Department ensure that the US funded civil society opposition will not address the broader issue of foreign interference in the affairs of a sovereign state.
> 
> The US supports both sides with a view to creating divisions within Egyptian society as well political chaos.
> 
> The puppet masters so to speak support the protest movement against their own puppets. Its called &#8220;political leveraging&#8221;: support the Muslim Brotherhood as well as the opponents of the Morsi government, as a means to manipulating the mass movement, creating social and sectarian divisions and preventing the emergence of a sovereign national government.
> 
> 
> *Meanwhile the Western media has skillfully portrayed the Egyptian military as anti-American, following the recall of the US ambassador to Egypt Ann Patterson. This action is a useful smokescreen which obfuscates Washington&#8217;s role in the Coup d&#8217;Etat: the instigators of the Coup d&#8217;Etat are not &#8220;anti-American, they take their orders directly from the Pentagon.*



Michel Chossudovsky, July 6, 2013


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## Jihad_

Saudi Arabia Pleased With Morsi Fall



> *First*, the Saudi regime fears ideological competition from a political party that upholds Islam. The regime prides itself on being the only one that rules according to Sharia. It has propagated this myth for several decades and thus distinguished itself from so-called secular Arab dictators. Its religious establishment seriously believes that its political leadership is the only one that respects Islam. The Muslim Brotherhood in power in the most populous Arab country undermines the Saudi monopoly on Islamic politics.
> 
> *Second,* unlike official Saudi Salafists, who still believe that democracy is a Western import that promises to bring atheists, secularists and leftists to power, the Brotherhood engaged in elections, won seats in parliaments and even came to power in Tunisia and Egypt. Surely, then, Islam and democracy are not so incompatible. This in itself threatens the foundations of Saudi rule, which is still based on absolute kingship, difficult to justify from an Islamic point of view. The Brotherhood therefore exposes Saudi claims to legitimacy and undermines their credibility as lawful Muslim rulers. The Saudi regime worries about its population being contaminated by ideas and practices of how a Muslim can be democratic while remaining within the fold of Islam. This is not to say that a socially conservative Islamist trend like the Brotherhood is a bastion of liberty and democracy, but the Brotherhood's willingness to engage with democratic institutions is enough to scare the Saudi regime.
> 
> *Third,* like the Saudi regime, the Muslim Brotherhood is a transnational organization with branches across the Arab and Muslim world. It has penetrated educational institutions, preaching forums and relief organizations, which the Saudi government has been eager to control and dominate for its own foreign policy and legitimacy abroad. While the Brotherhood does not have the economic resources of Saudi Arabia, it has nevertheless spread across the globe, sometimes in disguise. The Saudis worry about the impact of this global competition among Muslims worldwide, who may become galvanized against Saudi policies. The competition over the hearts and minds of Muslims in the growing global Muslim society worries Saudi Arabia, which seeks to monopolize these platforms.
> 
> *Fourth,* Saudi Arabia prides itself on representing Sunni Islam against its alleged enemies, mainly other sects such as the Shiites. When the Brotherhood called for Islamic unity before it came to power in Egypt, thus softening the Sunni-Shiite divide, the Saudi regime felt undermined by such slogans. When Morsi visited Iran in 2012, Saudi attacks on the rapprochement reached a high tone. He tried to redeem himself when he denounced Alawite President Bashar al-Assad of Syria, but the damage had already been done. Saudi Arabia feared that Morsi would make Egypt drift toward Iran, with whom Saudi Arabia competes for hegemony at the regional level.


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## Jihad_

Air-Force Captain Defects and joins the pro Mursi Camp








Jihad_ said:


> An army officer joins a pro morsi demostration

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## MooshMoosh

Watch to 0:40 unless if you want to see anti Morsi in 'hulk mode'. Kicked Morsi supporteds out and burnt his car.

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## MooshMoosh

@Jihad_ forces is divided into two; one with supporters and one with against to avoid so called clash but I don't think politicially but things may change soon.

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## Doritos11

Morsi lied on the NASA thing, impossible to trust him.


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## Syrian Lion

*Almost One Year Later, Their Branch in Egypt Throw People Off Rooftops
*

In August of 2012, anti &#8211; Islam Wahhabi Sex Jihadist Takfiri scum threw Syrian mailmen from the rooftop of a government building. Now happened again in Egypt








Video in the link

Almost One Year Later, Their Branch in Egypt Throw People Off Rooftops - SyriaNews

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## Doritos11




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## Syrian Lion

*Morsi's Ouster Influenced by Syria Developments - Qusayr Victory & Cutting Off Relations with Syria
*

According to Egypt's leading journalist, Mohamed Hassanein Heikal, several Syria-linked factors contributed to Egyptian ex-President Mohamed Morsi's ouster. Those include the widening rift between ex-President Mohamed Morsi and Egyptian military commander-in-chief Abdel Fattah al-Sisi due to Morsi's decision to completely cut off relations with Syria and his patronage of a conference where Wahhabi preachers declared that conducting Jihad in Syria is a duty. The other factor is related to the developments of the war in Syria, where the retake of the strategic town of Qusayr by the Syrian Army in addition to the protests in Turkey against Erdogan's government dealt a heavy blow to the Muslim Brotherhood as a regional organization.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Doritos11 said:


>



He's gone nuts.

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## bdslph

wish the relation between Egypt and Syria establish again soon


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## Jihad_

bdslph said:


> wish the relation between Egypt and Syria establish again soon



Me too, after Assad is brought to justice.

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## Jihad_

Israel fears US may suspend Egyptian aid - Globes



> Israel is concerned that the Obama administration will suspend the $1.3 billion annual military aid to Egypt following the ouster of President Mohamed Morsi, and that suspension of aid could jeopardize the Israel-Egypt peace treaty. Israel may ask the US to find a way to continue the aid program, even though US law bans financial aid to regimes that seized power in a coup.



It would be interesting to see a regional player(s) that would pay the equivalent to Egypt annualy + extra's. Bye bye peace agreement and bye bye American influence.


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## bad boy 8

Pro Mursi officers should now stage a counter coup and send the traitor al Sissi to hell.That is the only way to save Egypt now,demonstrations will effect no one.Shoot the traitor dead !


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## MooshMoosh

Mohamed ElBaradei appointed Egypt's new PM - Egypt - Ahram Online

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/75887/Egypt/Politics-/Egypts-FJP-rejects-ElBaradei-appointment-as-PM.aspx

El Baradei was elected as PM but only for 5 minutes until rejected by others. Mubarak 30 years, Morsi 1 year and El Baradei 5 minutes.

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## Syrian Lion

bdslph said:


> wish the relation between Egypt and Syria establish again soon



Egypt can't make any relations with Syria currently, they fear the west, gcc aid will be cut...


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## Frogman

Syrian Lion said:


> Egypt can't make any relations with Syria currently, they fear the west, gcc aid will be cut...



Or simply don't want to get involved in unsanctioned interventions.


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## Jihad_

Insightfull lecture from the enemy's perspective. It also shows that the zionists knew a revolution would happen months ago. This gives more reason to think this was pre planned. No IMF loan so the hungry people would rise up. 






and

The Protest Movement in Egypt: &#8220;Dictators&#8221; do not Dictate, They Obey Orders


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## MooshMoosh

Pro morsi Egypt plans mass protest on Sunday which is soon. 

Rival protests planned Sunday following Morsi's ouster by military - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online


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## iranigirl2

*Egyptian protesters thrown from the roof top in Alexandria *

Egyptian protesters thrown from the roof top in Alexandria - YouTube

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## iranigirl2

*Morsi Supporters beaten and killed.*


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## Ceylal

Yzd Khalifa said:


> He's gone nuts.


what the thing with the shoes?


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## iranigirl2

* confused?*


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## MooshMoosh

Second revolution had begun in Egypt! Pro Islamist protesters are huge outside! I repeat, MILLIONS all over EGYPT!

Can't wait to see General El Sisi's reaction haha

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## Solomon2

The Princess and the Brotherhood

For nine decades, Egypt has fled modernity. 
By Mark Steyn





Anti-Morsi signs in Tahrir Square.





Mark Steyn 

After midday prayers on Wednesday, just about the time the army were heading over to the presidential palace to evict Mohammed Morsi, the last king of Egypt [link] was laying to rest his aunt, Princess Fawzia, who died in Alexandria on Tuesday at the grand old age of 91. She was born in 1921, a few months before the imperial civil servants of London and Paris invented the modern Middle East and the British protectorate of Egypt was upgraded to a kingdom, and seven years before Hassan al-Banna founded the Muslim Brotherhood.

A long life reminds us of how short history is: Princess Fawzia outlived the Egyptian monarchy, and the Nasserist fascism and pan-Arabism that succeeded it, and the doomed United Arab Republic of Egypt and Syria, and the fetid third-of-a-century stability of the Mubarak kleptocracy. And she came within 24 hours of outliving the Muslim Brotherhoods brief, disastrous grip on power. In the days before her death, it was reported that 14 million people took to the streets of Egypts cities to protest against Morsi (and Obama and his ambassador Anne Paterson). If so, thats more than the population of the entire country in the year Princess Fawzia was born. The Mubarak era alone saw the citizenry double from 40 million to 80 million, a majority of which live on less than two dollars a day. The old pharaoh was toppled by his own baby boom, most of whom went for Morsi. The new pharaoh was toppled by his own stupidity. The Muslim Brotherhood waited 85 years for their moment and then blew it in nothing flat.

And so the Arab Spring ricochets from one half-witted plot twist to another. Morsi was supposedly the first democratically elected leader in Egypts history, but he was a one-man-one-vote-one-time guy. Across the Mediterranean in Turkey, Prime Minister Erdogan could have advised him softly softly catchee monkey  you neuter the army slowly, and Islamize incrementally, as Erdogan has done remorselessly over a decade. But Morsi the democrat prosecuted journalists who disrespected him, and now he sits in a military jail cell (next to Mubaraks?). And so the first army coup in Egypt since King Farouks ejection in 1952 is hailed as a restoration of the idealistic goals of the Facebook revolution, although General Sisi apparently has plans to charge Morsi with insulting the presidency. Thats not a crime any self-respecting society would have on its books  and anyway the Egyptian presidency itself is an insult to presidencies. Morsis is the shortest reign of any of the five presidents, shorter even than the first, Mohamed Naguib, who was booted out by Nasser and whose obscurity is nicely caught by the title of his memoir, _I Was an Egyptian President._

In the 2011 parliamentary elections, three-quarters of the vote went to either the Muslim Brotherhood or their principal rivals, the Even More Muslim Brotherhood. So, statistically speaking, a fair few of the broad-based coalition joining the Coptic Christians and urban secularists out on the streets are former Morsi guys. Are they suddenly Swedish-style social democrats? Human Rights Watch reports that almost 100 women were subjected to violent sexual assault over four days in Tahrir Square, which suggests not. _The Jerusalem Posts_ Caroline Glick argues that the coalition thats supplanted the Muslim Brothers will wind up controlled by neo-Nasserite fascists.

For my part, I would bet Egypts fate will be largely driven by its fiscal ruin. Morsi is a good example of what happens when full-blown Islamic rule is put into effect in a country without the benefit of oil. Hes your go-to guy when it comes to ramping up the clitoridectomy rate, but hes not so effective when it comes to jump-starting the economy. In February, the government advised the people to eat less and cut back the food subsidy to about 400 calories a day  which even Nanny Bloomberg might balk at. Amidst all the good news of the Morsi era  the collapse of Western tourism, the ethnic cleansing of Copts, the attacks on the Israeli embassy, sexual assaults on uncovered women, death for apostasy, etc.  amidst all these Morsi-era success stories, even a Muslim Brother has to eat occasionally. Egyptians learned the hard way that, whatever their cultural preferences, full-strength Islam comes at a price. Egypt has a wheat crisis, and a fuel crisis, and the World Food Program estimates that 40 percent of the population is suffering from physical or mental malnutrition. For purposes of comparison, when King Farouk was overthrown in 1952, Egypt and South Korea had more or less the same GDP per capita. Today Egypts is about one-eighth of South Koreas.

Washington has spent six decades getting Egypt wrong, ever since the CIA insouciantly joined the coup against Farouk under the contemptuous name Operation Fat F***er. We sank billions into Mubaraks Swiss bank accounts, and got nothing in return other than Mohammed Atta flying through the office window. Even in a multicultural age, liberal Americans casually assume that developing countries want to develop into something like a Western democracy. But Egypt only goes backwards. Princess Fawzia is best remembered in the Middle East as, briefly, the first consort of the late shah of Iran, whom she left in 1946 because she found Tehran hopelessly dull and provincial after bustling, modern, cosmopolitan Cairo. In our time, the notion of Egypt as modern is difficult to comprehend: According to the U.N., 91 percent of its women have undergone female genital mutilation  not because the state mandates it, but because the menfolk insist on it. Over half its citizenry subsists on less than two dollars a day. A rural population so inept it has to import its food, Egyptians live on the land, but cant live off it.

Ninety years ago, Fuad Is kingdom was a ramshackle Arab approximation of a Westminster constitutional monarchy: Even in its flaws and corruptions, it knew at least what respectable societies were supposed to aspire to. Nassers one-party state was worse, Mubaraks one-man klepto-state worse still, and Morsis antidote to his predecessors worst of all  so far. You can measure the decay in a tale of two consorts. After she left the shah, Princess Fawzia served as the principal hostess of the Egyptian court. In tiara and off-the-shoulder gowns, 




she looks like a screen siren from Hollywoods golden age  Hedy Lamarr, say, in _Her Highness and the Bellboy_ (1945). Sixty years later, no Egyptian woman could walk through Cairo with bare shoulders without risking assault. President Morsis wife, 




Naglaa Ali Mahmoud, is his first cousin, and covered from head to toe. If you were a visiting foreign minister, you were instructed not to shake hands, or even look at her. If you did, youd notice that the abaya-clad crone bore an odd resemblance to the mom of the incendiary Tsarnaev brothers. Eschewing the title first lady, she preferred to be known as first servant. *Egypts first couple embodied only the parochial, inbred dead end of Islamic imperialism  what remains when all else is dead or fled.*

This week, the Brotherhood was checked  but not by anything recognizable as the forces of freedom. Is it only a temporary respite? Certainly, in the age of what Caroline Glick calls Americas self-induced smallness, Western ideas of real liberty have little purchase in Cairo. Egypt will get worse, and, self-induced or not, America is getting smaller.

_ Mark Steyn, a National Review columnist, is the author of After America: Get Ready for Armageddon. © 2013 Mark Steyn_

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## Solomon2

Quick news from EoZ:

An explosion hit an Egyptian pipeline on Saturday...A priest was killed at one checkpoint by a group of militants...

An investigation says that the Muslim Brotherhood recruited Syrian refugees and Palestinian Arabs to shoot at anti-Morsi protesters. 

A Cairo prosecutor issued an arrest warrant for Al Jazeera'S news channel director in Egypt, saying that the network was "threatening public peace and national security through broadcasting incendiary news."

In an ironic twist, the Muslim Brotherhood - which was registered as an NGO a few months ago even though it is as political as any organization can be - may become illegal under the same provision that allows the state to dissolve NGOs...

From MEMRI: 

Islamists throw opponents off roof:





Celebration in Egypt's TV studios:





Pro-Morsi demonstrators threaten military with suicide squads:




"...or else those masses will blow Egypt up."

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## Solomon2

Egypts today is the Turkey of yesterday hopefully
Saturday, 6 July 2013





Ceylan Ozbudak

In Turkey, we have a recent history, which is full of military interventions. Still to this day, I remember waiting to hear how the generals and admirals would be analyzing a political speech. We had a recent history when we all knew the names of lower ranking generals better than the members of our cabinet. This has always been our shame, we dont appreciate coups or interventions.

We did not like the coup in Egypt either. It was condemned by all political parties and thought leaders. Turkey used the word coup for this intervention starting from the first day. With the toppling of Morsi's government in Egypt by the military, everyone started looking for someone to blame. In traditional Muslim circles, US and European countries were blamed for disliking Islamists, planning this coup just to take the rule from a Muslim organization and being intolerant to Islamic regimes. The West may not be a fan of Islamic organizations or todays Islamist regimes but who is? At this point, the finger of blame turned upon itself. As Muslims, are we learning from our mistakes?

I see many analysts trying to draw parallels between the Gezi protests in Istanbul recently and the military coup in Egypt and I have to admit, they are not entirely at fault. But if we are to draw any parallel between the recent history of Turkey and Egypt, 28th February coup in 1997 ranks first in resemblance.

Many of my Arab friends and those interested in Middle East politics will remember Necmettin Erbakan, the first Islamist prime minister in the secular Turkey. In 28th February 1997, a coalition government led by a conservative party leader, Erbakan, was overthrown by the military. Today, we can cite many reasons leading to this intervention, but the real reason was purely his IMAGE.


*Holding on to the throne*
Even though Erbakan only spent one year as the Prime Minister, he reformed Turkish economy immensely transforming GDP growth. Between 1996-1997, Erbakan created an economic growth of 7.5% and created a pool system between the governmental organizations. To be fair, as far as public service goes, he delivered.

Difficult to believe but impossible to reject; despite his good record in service, Erbakan could not hold on to the throne of Turkish cabinet because of his image. His party reached its political peak before the elections by him appearing in public with dolled-up female models, non-Muslims, fundamentalist Muslims with turbans, people from all walks of life reassuring Turks that he was inclusive- and then he hit rock bottom when he invited sheiks to the Prime Ministers residence for an iftar dinner. Ask any Turk who remembers those days, none of us can forget the flashing lights of the cars carrying sheiks to the residence, governmental officials opening doors to religious leaders. The military ended up confronting then Prime Minister Erbakan, with many secular liberals standing aside because although they despised the secular authoritarians, they also felt nervous about the ambitions of Erbakan and his entourage to implement their lifestyle on the Turkish public.

Any sound politics that project to culture, giving satisfaction, and voice to the people in a fashionable manner gives power back to the politician. Todays so called Islamists in Turkey did not repeat the mistakes of the Erbakan government. They were much more inclusive in their approach. Erdogan's government, although sincerely believing in traditional Islamic values, never undermined the minorities in Turkey. Erdogan has been the first Prime Minister of Turkey who gives a monthly salary to Alawite religious leaders, rebuild the ancient synagogues and churches, building new ones despite the stable number of minorities. After coming to power, the AK Party made some serious judiciary reforms, have been much more flexible, liberal and pragmatic than Erbakan government. Like one general at the time of 28th February intervention stated, Erbakan government put forward a beautiful show case before the elections but did not keep the show case in place after the elections. Erdogan did. He sang popular songs with singers wearing revealing clothes and only in his time the modern Turkey saw a non-Muslim governor, while the President Morsi was busy appointing a member of Gamaa Islamiya as the Governor of Luxor. Egypts Islamists need to learn from Turkey.

*A question of legitimacy*
Erdogan has been inclusive and kept the highest interests of the state a priority to the point where he partnered with secularists on the Kurdish, Armenian and Cypriot issues. Erdogan gave importance to economic and military ties with Israel, the United States, Russia, China and the European Union. With 3% growth in the first quarter of 2013 Turkish economy outpaced all Eurozone countries but this could not save Erdogan from protests and he faced stern criticism about his IMAGE on the Gezi protests. Neither Erdogan, nor Erbakan were looked down upon because they failed at economy or public service. They created unease amid the public when the skepticism arose whether or not they would try to impose their image on the masses. And lets let the elephant in the room free, even though they both were hard workers, their image is not awe-inspiring.

Did Erdogan lose legitimacy in the Muslim circles because his image is more liberal compared to Erbakan? Of course not. He is still regarded as Islamist as much as Erbakan. He learned the results of not being inclusive, the hard way. The unmoulded masses of Egypt will decide not only what they do not want but also what they do. And the masses in Turkey will use the Egypt experience to learn what they should not do. We heard the saying democracy is not only elections many times lately but free elections are the main tools of democracy. Democracy does not mean using the army to correct our mistakes at the ballot box. If there is a group, which is favored by a great majority, it will prevail even after an intervention. The thinking that the Muslim Brotherhood will stay in the dusty pages of history boks after this is wrong. *The Muslim Brotherhood is an organization, which flourished under oppression, they defied Nasser, Sadat, Mubarak and they will defy Sisi too. But there is only one way they can be in power in a future Egyptian scenario, and that goes through implementing a secular constitution where they sincerely embrace all the diversities of Egypt.* Of course the first step to democracy in Egpyt, wouldnt be the last one. Like Turkey, Egypt started its run to democracy with a tutorship regime where the politics were controlled by the military and judiciary justifying the intentions of military. The Turkish experience offers the example of the only way to have a free and democratic society. At some point, the threat of the military coup must be removed, and replaced by the will of the people. Leaders must be removed by ballot boxes, not bullets.
__________
Ceylan Ozbudak is a Turkish political analyst, television presenter, and executive director of Building Bridges, an Istanbul-based NGO. She can be followed on Twitter via @ceylanozbudak


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## Hussein

Naglaa Ali Mahmoud was living a long in USA and her sons are all US citizens.
It is her choice to dress like this. It is a mistake to blame choices of people .

Anyway nice article. About princess Fawzia
&#8220;Venus&#8221; &#8211; Part II &#8211; The Life and Times of Princess Fawzia [2005] | Kafkaesque

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## darkinsky

MooshMoosh said:


> Second revolution had begun in Egypt! Pro Islamist protesters are huge outside! I repeat, MILLIONS all over EGYPT!
> 
> Can't wait to see General El Sisi's reaction haha



is this second revolution or third?

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## Alshawi1234

This doesn't look good, I really hope all the parties in Egypt stop the escalation before it turns into a civil war,  Some Islamist groups already have dictated the Egyption army and the anti-Morsi protesters to be a legitimate target. Some Army checkpoints have been attacked. 

The US has expressed their dismay with the removal of their puppets in Egypt. 
McCain calls for suspension of U.S. military aid to Egypt - Alarabiya.net English | Front Page

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## Solomon2

darkinsky said:


> is this second revolution or third?











Good Riddance to Brotherhoods Fake Democrats

By Jeffrey Goldberg Jul 4, 2013 12:56 PM ET 

A few months ago, King Abdullah II of Jordan told me about his meetings with Mohamed Mursi, the now-deposed president of Egypt. The king wasnt fond of Mursi, both because the Egyptian was a leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, and because Abdullah found Mursi exceedingly stupid.

I see a Muslim Brotherhood crescent developing in Egypt and Turkey, the king said. He despises the movement, partly because it is revanchist, fundamentalist and totalitarian, and partly because in Jordan it seeks his overthrow. The Arab Spring highlighted a new crescent in the process of development.

The saving grace in Egypt, he said, was that Mursi seemed too unsophisticated to successfully pull off his vision. Theres no depth to the guy, he said of Mursi. The king compared him unfavorably to Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Islamist prime minister of Turkey. Like Mursi, the king asserted, Erdogan was also a false democrat, but one with patience. Erdogan once said that democracy for him is a bus ride, Abdullah said. Once I get to my stop, Im getting off.
Unlike Mursi, however, Erdogan was masterful at manipulating a system that didnt trust him, the king said. Instead of the Turkish model, taking six or seven years -- being an Erdogan -- Mursi wanted to do it overnight. Recent events in Turkey, including the governments miscalculated response to mass protests, have shown that perhaps even Erdogan isnt an Erdogan anymore.

*Jordan Islamists*
I havent spoken to King Abdullah since Egypts military overturned the results of the election that brought Mursi to power, but I imagine hes quite pleased today. Thats not only because No-Depth-Mursi is gone and events have underscored the kings analytical acumen, but also because Abdullahs main rival for power, the Islamic Action Front, which is the Muslim Brotherhoods Jordan branch, is now on its back foot. So are Islamist political parties across the Middle East. Islam Is the Solution, a common slogan among these parties, will be heard only infrequently in the coming days.

There are so many good reasons to be happy and grateful for the latest turn of events in Cairo. Women, as well as the 10 percent of Egyptians who are Christian, should be quite pleased. The Brotherhoods most vicious war was on women. It has also been working assiduously to marginalize, and even terrorize, Egypts Christian minority.

Luckily, Mursi, as King Abdullah suggested, was a thoroughgoing incompetent, who fulfilled few of the Brotherhoods promises, including its most vindictive ones. It is almost comical now to remember that among Mursis more banal pledges was his vow to solve Cairos impossible traffic, a mess exacerbated in recent days by the presence of millions of anti-Mursi demonstrators on the streets and in the squares.

The millions of people who rallied against the deposed president were infuriated by his pinched vision of Egypts future, as well as by his mishandling of the economy (a truly apocalyptic situation) and public safety. They couldnt abide by Mursis fateful decisions, backed by his masters in the Brotherhood, to concentrate power in the presidency and deny positions in his Cabinet to figures from the political opposition. This last decision, to exclude Egyptians of differing opinions from any role in governance, could have been undone through pressure by the U.S. and its ambassador in Cairo, Anne Patterson. Patterson, however, together with her indifferent bosses in Washington, chose not to exert pressure on Mursi. They seemed to believe, for reasons still unknown, that he and the Brotherhood were firmly ensconced in power. (I wrote about Pattersons troubles here).

*Democratic Setback*
And yet, while Egypts military coup represents a victory for progressivism, it is also a defeat for democracy. Mursi was freely and fairly elected. If the anti-Mursi demonstrators had exhibited the patience the president lacked, they would, theoretically, at least, have had their chance to remove him at the ballot box. They would also have exhibited a maturity about the processes of democratic governance.

Had the military not intervened, though, the Muslim Brotherhood may have tried, over time, to make sure that Egypts first free and fair election was also its last. A number of Egyptian friends have written me in the past day, arguing that what the Egyptian people did -- or, more to the point, what the Egyptian army, responding to the will of the people, did -- was to forestall the rise of a new Hitler. If the Germans, who chose Adolf Hitler in a democratic election, had turned on him a year later, well, you know the rest. The analogy is overdone for so many reasons, but it is absolutely true that the Muslim Brotherhood is a totalitarian cult, not a democratic party.

Which suggests one other potentially disastrous consequence of this weeks coup: The Brotherhood will not go quietly into obscurity, or into jail. Its members and leaders are true believers. In particular, they are true believers in martyrdom. Had they been turned out of office by voters at the end of Mursis term, the opportunities for martyrdom would have been limited. Now that they have been removed by force and are being arrested in large numbers, the opportunities are many.

The Middle East analyst Reuel Marc Gerecht told me that the coup has forestalled the Muslim Brotherhoods self-immolation through the ballot box.

This will keep the Brotherhood strong and make them, I suspect, meaner and nastier and less public, he said. They will grow popular again: Hell, they might still win parliament in a free vote. Who knows? But the military has just guaranteed their livelihood and humbled, if not killed, the democratic process.

As Tamara Cofman Wittes, the director of the Brookings Institutions Saban Center for Middle East Policy, says, My greatest worry is that this coup, if followed by undue repression against Islamists, will drive the creation of a new generation of Islamist terrorists in Egypt. Egyptians have suffered enough from terrorism already.

Egyptians have suffered enough from everything already. The hope, as outlandish as it sounds, is that this coup finally sets their country on a different trajectory.
(Jeffrey Goldberg is a Bloomberg View columnist.)

To contact the writer of this article:
Jeffrey Goldberg at goldberg.atlantic@gmail.com


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## iranigirl2

Alshawi1234 said:


> This doesn't look good, I really hope all the parties in Egypt stop the escalation before it turns into a civil war, Some Islamist groups already have dictated the Egyption army and the anti-Morsi protesters to be a legitimate target. Some Army checkpoints have been attacked.
> 
> The US has expressed their dismay with the removal of their puppets in Egypt.
> McCain calls for suspension of U.S. military aid to Egypt - Alarabiya.net English | Front Page



McCain is slowly becoming the spokesperson for Muslim Brotherhood! He represents them in Syria and now in Egypt!!!

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## Ceylal

MooshMoosh said:


> Second revolution had begun in Egypt! Pro Islamist protesters are huge outside! I repeat, MILLIONS all over EGYPT!
> 
> Can't wait to see General El Sisi's reaction haha

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## fallstuff

The issue seems to me is two competing set of authorities. The President VS Supreme Council of the Armed Forces. You got this "Supreme Council of the Armed Forces" intervening with the work of Morsi. This will paralyze any presidency, not only Morsis as any opposition failed to garner political power through election will find running to Supreme Council of the Armed Forces as the quick fix.

There will always be problem/head-butting if the next President don't want to be bogged down by the so call Supreme Council of the Armed Forces. This makes the Egyptian Representative form of Govt a laughing stock. This sort of sounds like the Guardians in Iran. However, to be fair to the Iranians, their legislature actually elect these guys.

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## Ceylal

Ammad Malik said:


> Pro Mursi officers should now stage a counter coup and send the traitor al Sissi to hell.That is the only way to save Egypt now,demonstrations will effect no one.Shoot the traitor dead !


like you put zia el haq back to power..Its the people of Egypt that dismissed Morsi, not the army..The army did not to take power. Morsi government was not a functional one by any standard.

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## Hussein

Alshawi1234 said:


> The US has expressed their dismay with the removal of their puppets in Egypt.
> McCain calls for suspension of U.S. military aid to Egypt - Alarabiya.net English | Front Page



this is not USA but McCain . He wants to be a pain for Obama


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## Ceylal

hussain0216 said:


> Pathetic, simply pathetic
> 
> *THIS IS A COUP
> THE LIBERAL TAMAROD SLIME ARE TRAITORS*
> This not a coup..A coup is a take over by force of a functional government..Morsi government was in disarray, and the army didn't appoint one there own at the helm, they point a civilian, a judge, in the interrim period to form a government, until election can be held.


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## fallstuff

iranigirl2 said:


> McCain is slowly becoming the spokesperson for Muslim Brotherhood! He represents them in Syria and now in Egypt!!!



I don't like McCain much as he likes to stir **** up all over the world, however, I think he is spot on this one by not supporting the Military Coup. 
He always wanted the democratic process in ME believing the lack of it cause most of the troubles in the ME.


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## Yzd Khalifa

Ceylal said:


> what the thing with the shoes?



A sign of disrespect for the remarks Morsi had made in his last speech.


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## Solomon2

fallstuff said:


> The issue seems to me is two competing set of authorities. The President VS Supreme Council of the Armed Forces. You got this "Supreme Council of the Armed Forces" intervening with the work of Morsi. This will paralyze any presidency, not only Morsis as any opposition failed to garner political power through election will find running to Supreme Council of the Armed Forces as the quick fix.












MICHAEL WEISS
July 3, 2013

Between Sisi and Morsi




Mohammed Morsi is effectively a prisoner in his own castle. The Egyptian president who earned the cover of Time magazine last November  shortly after helping to broker an Israeli-Hamas ceasefire in Gaza and shortly before arrogating to himself unprecedented executive powers  is politically finished. Hubris, stupidity, and one of the largest rallies in recorded history were his undoing. So was one of his own appointees. On Monday, Defense Minister Gen. Abdel Fattah Al Sisi gave Morsi 48-hours to meet the peoples demands before Egypts Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF), now more than ever a junta in reserve, disclose[d] its own future plan for the country. But the peoples chief demand, as Sisi well knew, was to topple Morsi, and as the popular reaction to the generals demarche and to the flag-draping army helicopters flying low over Cairo made clear, the people were fine with using the military to achieve that end.

SCAF sounds like a bad skin condition but it might as well be another term for amnesia. Was this not the same state institution, unchanged from the bad old days of Hosni Mubarak, that conducted virginity tests on women, fired lethal rounds at protestors, conducted an anti-Christian pogrom at Maspero, and otherwise oversaw a calamitous 18-month transitional period that it itself was only too pleased to see the back of? Well yes, but that was such a long time ago, before Morsi decided that the unsmiling transformation of Egypt into Ikhwanistan took precedence over food and fuel shortages and sweeping unemployment. Now, thanks to a conveniently leaked road map, we were all made aware that SCAF would be taking it from here by instituting a civilian interim governing council and forestalling parliamentary elections until the vague, menacing mess of the jammed-through Egyptian constitution was torn up and redrafted. As I write, mere minutes from the expiration of Sisis ultimatum, the military has established a presence in the newsroom of Egyptian state television where it intends to screen all broadcast content in the forthcoming hours. Meanwhile, Tahrir Square is jubilant.

In a way, its hard not to sympathize with former anti-Mubarak agitators turned army nostalgics such as Mohammed Badr, now the de facto leader of the Tamarod (rebellion) movement to unseat Morsi. If his ideology werent a big enough problem on its own, Morsis tone-deaf incompetence surely was. Presented with a national complaint that exceeded in both size and scope the one that ousted his predecessor, Morsi has done everything to legitimate the oppositions argument that, at a time of emergency, Egypt is being lorded over by an authoritarian nincompoop who thinks hes got all the time in the world. (One way to make the word coup suddenly palatable again is to appoint a member of a terrorist group the provincial governor of the region where that group once perpetrated it worst terrorist attack.)

Morsi has indeed treated his opponents as if they simply do not exist, surely a reflex response of decades of having kept only the counsel of his fellow subscribers of a cult movement that seems to borrow from both Bolshevism and Heavens Gate. Even as half a dozen or so members of his own cabinet tendered their resignations, even as Brotherhood heavies were being seized and placed under house arrest, and even as Brotherhood HQ was being set alight, the president was neither seen nor heard from. When he finally took to the airwaves at midnight last night to reject Sisis ultimatum, Morsi affirmed that the price for his maintenance in power could be his own life  not realizing that this was a price many are eager to see paid.

The United States, meanwhile, is caught in another one of those embarrassing moments of strategic confusion that are so easily the handmaids to foreign conspiracy theories. There may not be truth in the allegation that Washington backs the Brotherhood, but Washingtons silence at the steady, Brotherhood-led erosion of civil liberties and human rights in Egypt has not endeared Tamarod to the billion-dollar financier of the new-minted savior army. Such paradoxical politics are the stuff of fun on Twitter, but Tamarods opportunism is the result of the double bind it now faces between Sisi and Morsi.

President Obama has said recently, though only discovered belatedly, that democracy must not be confused with the mere holding of elections. Whatever happens from here, one lesson that should be learned from Egypts latest round of convulsions is the sentimental pieties and determinisms with which we continue to approach history require a serious rethink. The image of an ink-stained finger or an old man arriving at a polling station to participate in the first free election of his life are undeniably more captivating for viewers of CNN or Al Jazeera than the latest report from the International Monetary Fund or Human Rights Watch. And yet, because the more significant bricks-and-mortar work that goes into building a functioning state and safeguarding an independent civil society is so easily ignored, that work is usually the first victim of the aspiring tyrants of the ballot box. Critical journalists can thus be fired from their jobs, NGO workers can be put on trial for phantom conspiracies, women can be characterized as Adams rib, opposition leaders can be beaten or locked up  all in the name of a concept democracy that been fetishized to near meaninglessness. Put it this way: if the ruling party in a true democracy is shown to be running torture facilities out of the official residence of the chief executive, it will not take a new election to remove that party from power.

A toothache will cost a battle, a drizzle cancel an insurrection was Nabokovs mordant indictment of Marxs attempt to ascribe scientific laws to history. But the great Russian could have just as easily been speaking of the legion of Western commentators who have brought their expertise to bear on the Arab Spring. Many whom youll now recognize by their nervousness have managed to marry outsize aspirations for popular demonstrations with cynical, if often unstated, prescriptions as to what must follow therefrom. I dont know what to call this school of thinking but Orientalism turned on its head. It holds that what Arabs need most is to rid themselves of secular dictators and submit to the majoritarian rule of elected religious reactionaries. A quick scan through the opinion pages of international newspapers over the past two and a half years indicates that Islamism was the inevitable alternative for the Middle East because its adherents were the best organized and most disciplined, and their history of persecution had lent a patina of authenticity to their decades-long struggle. As such, the blatant totalitarian tendencies of Islamists had to be whitewashed or minimized in favor of a happier propaganda that depicted this 'ism' as tolerant, pluralistic, moderate, and sincere in its avowals (usually made in English) to be all those things.

There is actually very little intellectual difference between the supporters of the _ancien regime_ of Mubarak who warned of a pending Islamist Winter and the apologists of the Muslim Brotherhood who said that this was the best that could be expected. Both camps have condescendingly consigned Egypt to a role that it does not wish to play: that of a ward of modernity which must choose between strongmen in epaulettes or beards.

Shall we maintain the illusion that if and when SCAF wins today, the people wont be back tomorrow?


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## pkuser2k12

*Mursi Mursi Allah o Akbar... Listen to the Egypt Crowd Spirit*







*Allah ho Akbar*​


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## Solomon2

iranigirl2 said:


> *Egyptian protesters thrown from the roof top in Alexandria *
> 
> Egyptian protesters thrown from the roof top in Alexandria - YouTube



They may have caught the guy who threw them: link

Authorities: Man who threw anti-Mursi protesters off building caught
Sunday, 7 July 2013





The 19-year-old Hamada Badr was killed after being thrown off a building in Alexandria by what appeared to be an Islamist supporter of ousted President Mohammed Mursi. (Photo courtesy: activists)

Al Arabiya
Egyptian security forces have arrested a man suspected of taking part in throwing two young protesters off a residential building in Alexandria, Al Arabiya correspondent reported.

Activists circulated on Saturday a video online showing what appeared to be Islamist supporters of ousted President Mohammed Mursi throwing two young men off a Sidi Jaber building during clashes in Egypts second largest city, Alexandria.

One of the young men was killed. He was identified as the 19-year-old Hamada Badr. Activists say he was celebrating Mursis ouster when he came into encounter with Muslim Brotherhood supporters.

Father of the slain teen said the pro-Mursi Islamists wanted to take vengeance against Hamada and his two other friends, because they were throwing bricks off the building against the Islamist crowds surrounding it at the time.

On Sunday, authorities in Alexandria said that it will deploy its security forces after Islamist groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood, from which Mursi hails, called for a protest in Sidi Jaber.

Our duty is to secure the protesters and people living in the area. We will work to separate people in case clashes occur, Al-Dostor newspaper reported General Amin Izzadin as saying.

*On Friday, clashes between opponents and supporters of Mursi flared in Egypt, killing at least 46 people nationwide, with the heaviest death toll registered in Alexandria.*


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## Solomon2

pkuser2k12 said:


> *Mursi Mursi Allah o Akbar... Listen to the Egypt Crowd Spirit*



You might want to do some counting. There are far less than 5,000 people there - very few in comparison to the millions on the streets against Morsi.​


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## darkinsky

funny guy as well xD

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## Solomon2

darkinsky said:


> funny guy as well xD


You made an excellent choice, darkinsky. I'm impressed.


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## Solomon2

From Egypt Independent:




The Army and the people stand together, holding the torch of liberty​
For comparison, here's the Statue of Liberty's torch in New York harbor:




I'm not sure I like all this Army-is-the-people stuff. I'm willing to give it ten days more before judgment.


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## Luffy 500

Solomon2 said:


> Egypt&#8217;s today is the Turkey of yesterday&#8230; hopefully
> Saturday, 6 July 2013




Turkey of yerterday was the sick man Europe, a literal vassal of israel/US and zionist maggots. Today its standing tall kicking the butt of low life zionist bastards and making sure lunatic militant suckulars can't grab power via undemocratic means. Off course this burns the _ss of suckulars and ****** zionist scums and hence we see such whining from them like this article and all your posts filled with bigotry and ignorant ranting. 

Btw in this article is talks about "all inclusive gov". Well Suckular dictators that ruled Egypt and toppled MB gov and Kelamist of Yesterday's turkey weren't all inclusive of majority muslim population. They were only inclusive of low life slave metality anti-islamic bigots and their western masters. MB was very inclusive by the looks of the constitution they formulated respecting and uphelding the roots of Egypt and majority sentiment. Off course low life western slave mentality suckulars would never be satisfied unless they get a taste of power that they can use to oppress muslim. Besides its not necessary that muslims have to share the western perspective of "inclusiveness". We can see how inclusive present US/France and western Europe is or how inclusive their colonial forms were.

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## T-123456

Your beloved Erdogan is a US puppet only used to create ''cold'' wars between countries.
Dont call people you dont know,lowlife bastards try to have some manners.
Btw,how is you country doing?

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## Solomon2

Luffy 500 said:


> Turkey of yerterday was the sick man Europe, a literal vassal of israel/US and zionist maggots. Today its standing tall kicking the butt of low life zionist bastards


Zionists are neither maggots nor bastards. When you craft your case upon a foundation of deliberate lies you have abandoned justice in favor of prejudice and bigotry, is that not so? Nice for the people committing injustices on top, but why should the people below stand for it?



> MB was very inclusive by the looks of the constitution they formulated respecting and uphelding the roots of Egypt and majority sentiment.


It's minority rights that matter when it comes to democratic values. Minority rights give people the freedom to change their minds.



> Off course low life western slave mentality suckulars would never be satisfied unless they get a taste of power that they can use to oppress muslim.


When these "muslims" vow to take down a country in explosions and fire how do _you_ propose to deal with them? By sucking up to them? Bribery? Offering them your wife - or maybe someone else's? 

One demonstrator's sign said it well: "Egypt will never be Pakistan".


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## pkuser2k12

Solomon2 said:


> You might want to do some counting. There are far less than 5,000 people there - very few in comparison to the millions on the streets against Morsi.



you counted them all good job but i doubt your math


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

the wind began to blow in the opposite...Now all criminal govertnments that involved in millitary coup against MB begin to deny and swear that they have not been by any way in conspiracy of m.coup...The fear of a$$ rise to till throat..

USA is about to leave alone his Egyptian criminal partners to save his tail..KSA has made a fatal mistake and will be the bigest loser of crediblity with his Egyptian Juntas.. KSA has deemed that after military coup they boosted has been carried out they sent several crates of dollar with gifts of perssiman Medina and zamzam water to poor Egyptians then they would easily convince all politic sides of Egyptians even including MB by time..

*the presidency of Mahmud Adli Mansur is illegitimate and suprious just like the child born out of wedlock..Votes is the will of people. The will is the honour of people.. People could die and fight for their honour....There is only one way to protect Egypt from falling into a terrible turmoil..Mursi gonna to back to his duty *

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## Frogman

pkuser2k12 said:


> you counted them all good job but i doubt your math



Rab3a Al3adawiya isn't an actual square its a traffic junction in front of a famous mosque. Using Google earth to estimate the actual available space and then taking into account that the average human being takes up 25cm cubed (in a jam packed protest where people are shoulder to shoulder) and also taking into to account about 30% of available space is filled with stages/lampposts/barriers/trees etc. a software company has calculated that Rab3a al3adawiya can only hold just above four hundred thousand people.


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## pkuser2k12

Frogman said:


> Rab3a Al3adawiya isn't an actual square its a traffic junction in front of a famous mosque. Using Google earth to estimate the actual available space and then taking into account that the average human being takes up 25cm cubed (in a jam packed protest where people are shoulder to shoulder) and also taking into to account about 30% of available space is filled with stages/lampposts/barriers/trees etc. a software company has calculated that Rab3a al3adawiya can only hold just above four hundred thousand people.



even if MB fills coup de tahrir square you will not accept their numbers


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## Frogman

pkuser2k12 said:


> even if MB fills coup de tahrir square you will not accept their numbers



If the MB and its affiliates were confident of their own numbers and confident that if involved in new parliamentary and presidential elections then why did they reject the request of the armed forces for them to be involved in the transitional phase instead of seeking a confrontation with the armed forces and those who support their decision?


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## Solomon2

pkuser2k12 said:


> you counted them all good job but i doubt your math


I counted a sample area in a defined area near the middle of the frame and multiplied it proportionally. Small errors from perspective remain but note that the crowd does not extend to the rear of the camera shots. Note I only put an upper limit on the crowd; it seems I counted head-and-shirt as two people instead of one. In that case there's less than 1,000 people at this demo.


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## pkuser2k12

Frogman said:


> If the MB and its affiliates were confident of their own numbers and confident that if involved in new parliamentary and presidential elections then why did they reject the request of the armed forces for them to be involved in the transitional phase instead of seeking a confrontation with the armed forces and those who support their decision?



because they dissolved their government 

it is like kicking throwing down and dis respecting and then helping them to standup



Solomon2 said:


> I counted a sample area in a defined area near the middle of the frame and multiplied it proportionally. Small errors from perspective remain but note that the crowd does not extend to the rear of the camera shots. Note I only put an upper limit on the crowd; it seems I counted head-and-shirt as two people instead of one. In that case there's less than 1,000 people at this demo.



ye keep applying limits . school for retards mathematics


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## Solomon2

pkuser2k12 said:


> ye keep applying limits . school for retards mathematics


Don't stop now, enlighten us with _your_ technique. Oh, you have nothing? Guess "retards mathematics" is the best available, then.


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## pkuser2k12

Solomon2 said:


> Don't stop now, enlighten us with _your_ technique. Oh, you have nothing? Guess "retards mathematics" is the best available, then.



never stop reading it


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## Luffy 500

Solomon2 said:


> Zionists are neither maggots nor bastards. When you craft your case upon a foundation of deliberate lies you have abandoned justice in favor of prejudice and bigotry, is that not so? Nice for the people committing injustices on top, but why should the people below stand for it?
> 
> It's minority rights that matter when it comes to democratic values. Minority rights give people the freedom to change their minds.
> 
> When these "muslims" vow to take down a country in explosions and fire how do _you_ propose to deal with them? By sucking up to them? Bribery? Offering them your wife - or maybe someone else's?
> 
> One demonstrator's sign said it well: "Egypt will never be Pakistan".



"Minority rights" is a nice excuse but MB formulated constitution says contrary to your zionist propaganda *****. And again its not necessary that Everyone has to share the western perspective on minority rights and a seperate perspective can also be held well within the frame of sanity and democracy. 

The rest of your ramblings are just zionist propaganda *****. Apparently 40 died yesterday *after* a democratically Pres. was toppled via suckular military coup.

Feel free to disagree with your twisted zionist concocted logic. 




T-123456 said:


> Your beloved Erdogan is a US puppet only used to create ''cold'' wars between countries.
> Dont call people you dont know,lowlife bastards try to have some manners.
> Btw,how is you country doing?



Yeah that's why he gets negative coverage in western media and your recent gezi protest got western backing.

My country has its fair share of suckular scumbags so it isn't doing great.


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## Syrian Lion

*Ali Ahmed: the 12-Year-Old Boy who Put Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood to Shame
*

Must watch! Ali Ahmed, an Egyptian 12-year-old boy gives his opinion about the current situation in Egypt and how the Muslim Brotherhood failed at governing the country. This remarkably smart kid is destined to play an important role in Egypt's future.

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## Solomon2

Luffy 500 said:


> "Minority rights" is a nice excuse but MB formulated constitution says contrary to your zionist propaganda *****.


Go on, enlighten us by quoting the sections of the "MB-formulated constitution" you have in mind. Did they even apply on June 30th?



> The rest of your ramblings are just zionist propaganda


Which you have absolutely no answer to anymore. You're probably familiar enough with meby now to know that I make swiss cheese out of cheesy anti-zionist stuff so you won't go beyond anything other than empty claims - but if you care to add substance, go right ahead; just be sure to put it in the correct thread.


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## Solomon2

Syrian Lion said:


> *Ali Ahmed: the 12-Year-Old Boy who Put Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood to Shame
> *
> 
> Must watch! Ali Ahmed, an Egyptian 12-year-old boy gives his opinion about the current situation in Egypt and how the Muslim Brotherhood failed at governing the country. This remarkably smart kid is destined to play an important role in Egypt's future.


This kid gets it: "What is built on falsehood is false itself." And he understands the tricks of how "Islamic law" can be employed to make nonsense of the liberal provisions of the Constitution: "This is abuse and insanity, all of this political process is void because the parliament in the first place is void, popularly and constitutionally void."



Luffy 500 said:


> Feel free to disagree with your twisted zionist concocted logic.


It's a much better, finer, and more noble thing to be a Zionist than an Islamist, isn't it?


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## Frogman

> because they dissolved their government
> 
> it is like kicking throwing down and dis respecting and then helping them to standup



So instead of actually engaging in a transitional phase (if they're confident of their numbers they should be successful in) they seek a confrontation with the majority of the Egyptian nation and its armed forces (seen by many as a symbol of Egyptian nationalism) leading to further hate and tension.

The actions of those in this video only serve to demonise any and all Islamists (no matter how respectable they are) and has already proved that the MB has no intention of using democratic or legal means to contest the removal of their (Other than the supreme guide) leader from power. 

If the MB and their affiliates weren't politically naive (as I fear you are) they would have accepted the military's proposal and proved that they are indeed committed to setting up a democratic (process not event) nation in Egypt and would have proved that they are indeed nationalistic and value Egyptian blood from any side, however, their decision is seen by many as proof that they have no loyalty to the nation, rather, they seek to destroy the nation state in favour of a utopian (and misguided) caliphate and have no problem (directly or indirectly) with the death of their own supporters or those who oppose them.

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## Jihad_

Frogman said:


>



It appears to be paid agents. Fake beard. I thought that Al Qaeda flag on the roof was kind of suspect from the begining. Can someone confirm?



> Here is his picture, released by the Ministry of Interior:


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## Mahmoud_EGY

MooshMoosh said:


> Second revolution had begun in Egypt! Pro Islamist protesters are huge outside! I repeat, MILLIONS all over EGYPT!
> 
> Can't wait to see General El Sisi's reaction haha


the millions are with the new regime not with morsi 
are you sure you are Egyptian ?

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## Surenas

Jihad_ said:


> It appears to be paid agents. Fake beard. I thought that Al Qaeda flag on the roof was kind of suspect from the begining. Can someone confirm?



What a joke. That guy doesn't even look like that Salafi guy. Not the difference in forehead and hairline. The first guy has a much smaller forehead and shorther hairline.

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## farag

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> the wind began to blow in the opposite...Now all criminal govertnments that involved in millitary coup against MB begin to deny and swear that they have not been by any way in conspiracy of m.coup...The fear of a$$ rise to till throat..
> 
> USA is about to leave alone his Egyptian criminal partners to save his tail..KSA has made a fatal mistake and will be the bigest loser of crediblity with his Egyptian Juntas.. KSA has deemed that after military coup they boosted has been carried out they sent several crates of dollar with gifts of perssiman Medina and zamzam water to poor Egyptians then they would easily convince all politic sides of Egyptians even including MB by time..
> 
> *the presidency of Mahmud Adli Mansur is illegitimate and suprious just like the child born out of wedlock..Votes is the will of people. The will is the honour of people.. People could die and fight for their honour....There is only one way to protect Egypt from falling into a terrible turmoil..Mursi gonna to back to his duty *



I have a question regarding AKP hypocrisy:

If democracy is just the election, how is egyptian mursi legal but Iraqi Maliki is not legitimate?



Jihad_ said:


> It appears to be paid agents. Fake beard. I thought that Al Qaeda flag on the roof was kind of suspect from the begining. Can someone confirm?



Why does anyone need to fake the al Qaeda flag?
Just see how many users like you are pro mursi and have al Qaeda flag as avatar.


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## Jihad_

farag said:


> Why does anyone need to fake the al Qaeda flag?
> Just see how many users like you are pro mursi and have al Qaeda flag as avatar.



I'm not pro morsi. And that's not the Qaeda flag. 



> Gen. Amin Ezzeldin to OnTV: Police arrested the bearded man in video



Seems to be in line with the photo given by the Ministry of Interior!

And:



> Egyptian security forces have arrested Mohammed Hassan Ramadan, the man suspected of taking part in throwing two young protesters off a residential building in Alexandria, Al Arabiya reported on Sunday.



Authorities: Man who threw anti-Mursi protesters off building caught


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## Jihad_

Seems like the army is bloodthirst and want to provoke a violent uprising.



> Muslim Brotherhood says 34 of its supporters killed in police firing, as political deadlock continues over interim PM.





Deadly Cairo clashes amid political impasse - Middle East - Al Jazeera English


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## Yzd Khalifa

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> the millions are with the new regime not with morsi
> are you sure you are Egyptian ?



Hopefully, the MB will soon realize that violence won't be tolerated. They can run for parliment if they want to, in the near future. For now, let just wish all the best of the Egyptian people.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Hopefully, the MB will soon realize that violence won't be tolerated. They can run for parliment if they want to, in the near future. For now, let just wish all the best of the Egyptian people.


 they need to accept what happened they cant finish off the army and the police and the people then rule

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## ResurgentIran

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> the wind began to blow in the opposite...Now all criminal govertnments that involved in millitary coup against MB begin to deny and swear that they have not been by any way in conspiracy of m.coup...The fear of a$$ rise to till throat..
> 
> USA is about to leave alone his Egyptian criminal partners to save his tail..KSA has made a fatal mistake and will be the bigest loser of crediblity with his Egyptian Juntas.. KSA has deemed that after military coup they boosted has been carried out they sent several crates of dollar with gifts of perssiman Medina and zamzam water to poor Egyptians then they would easily convince all politic sides of Egyptians even including MB by time..
> 
> *the presidency of Mahmud Adli Mansur is illegitimate and suprious just like the child born out of wedlock..Votes is the will of people. The will is the honour of people.. People could die and fight for their honour....There is only one way to protect Egypt from falling into a terrible turmoil..Mursi gonna to back to his duty *



So basically what you are advocating is that Egypt goes back to the status quo...
How about those 20-30 million people that were protesting fiercly against Morsi?

You need to realise that Morsi governing Egypt, in long term, is untenable.

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## MooshMoosh

People call me nut because I post nonsense but the truth is I am not and I'm trying to show them what is really going on. Second, I am a Muslim so I cannot lie. There was scholars in Egypt, the only Arab country with true scholars like Mohammad Hassan, Safwat Higazi, Qwaini and Yaqoub who has innormous followers with them and Qaradawi just declared fatwa which is a legal binding to go out and finish the revolution after the Egyptian army banned the prayer in Alexandria and attacked the supporters. Things are getting worst at the moment. Also, the majority in this forum are secularist so I don't care what they say and pretty much the mainstream media focus on "one" side only which is the anti protesters. Just like Turkey. 

Anyway, the people were attacked by anti morsi groups and the forces. 






He was shot while praying.

































*WATCH THIS*




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=578306902221658








__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=578350615550620

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## iranigirl2

*42 die in clashes between Egypt army and pro-Morsi protesters*

Clashes between the Egyptian army and pro-Morsi protesters at the Republican Guard headquarters in Cairo left at least 42 dead and 322 injured overnight, the health ministry said.

In an official statement published by Al-Ahram Arabic news website, the army said an "armed terrorist group" attempted to break into the Republican Guard headquarters in the early hours of Monday and "attacked security forces."

One officer died and 40 soldiers were injured, including seven in critical condition, the statement said. 

The Muslim Brotherhood, which spearheaded a sit-in for the last several days at the army facility to demand the return of deposed President Mohamed Morsi, said the army used live ammunition against peaceful protesters. 

The army, however, said it had arrested at least 200 people who had &#8220;large quantities of firearms, ammunition and Molotov cocktails.&#8221;

It also said that it had reopened Salah Salem Road which had been blocked by pro-Morsi protesters. 

President Morsi was deposed by Egypt's Armed Forces on Wednesday following nationwide protests calling for his ouster. Judge Adly Mansour, the head of the High Constitutional Court, was sworn in as the country's interim president on Thursday. 

Morsi's removal sparked anger among his supporters, mainly Islamists, spearheaded by the Muslim Brotherhood. 

The National Alliance for Supporting Legitimacy, a pro-Morsi group formed to back his right to complete his term of office, continues its sit-in at Rabaa Al-Adawiya Mosque in Cairo&#8217;s Nasr City district.

Other pro-Morsi groups have been protesting elsewhere, most notable at Nahdet Misr Square in Giza. 

The Brotherhood's FJP issued a statement saying, &#8220;The Egyptian people woke up on 8 July 2013 to the sound of bullets being fired at peaceful protesters in front of the Republican Guard HQ while they were performing their dawn prayers, turning it into a horrible massacre.&#8221;

&#8220;This has never happened before in the history of the Egyptian army,&#8221; the FJP statement added.

&#8220;Perhaps there are still some wise men in the army who can put a stop to this behavior which is abnormal to the Egyptian army.&#8221;


UPDATE 1: 42 die in clashes between Egypt army and pro-Morsi protesters - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online


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## Hussein

@MooshMoosh can you pls give links of the videos so we can share on other websites? thx


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## Hack-Hook

I feel sorry for poor GCC first they had to finance jihad against syria and now it seems that they must prepare yhemselves to finance jihad in egypt .

Probaly later they also have to finance jihad in Jordan and ........

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## BlueWarrior

This is absolutely sickening what Moosh posted, thanks for showing the awareness and the brutality of the polices in Egypt. I have a feeling Egypt is heading toward to a civil war because the country is divided with Pro supporters and Opposition supporters. People should start an early election with all parties participating in the election including the Muslim Brotherhood. This will restore calm in the country.

Massacre in Cairo deepens Egypt crisis - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

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## BlueWarrior

JEskandari said:


> I feel sorry for poor GCC first they had to finance jihad against syria and now it seems that they must prepare yhemselves to finance jihad in egypt .
> 
> Probaly later they also have to finance jihad in Jordan and ........


But according to them, they are against the Muslim Brotherhood, particularly Saudi Arabia which I have heard they were praising the military coup. I'm not sure whether you heard it but look it up and see if I'm wrong.


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## The SiLent crY

Imran Khan said:


> lolz better then worshiping leader imam as god



Troll


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## Devil Soul

*Pro-Morsi protests in Pakistan*





Pakistani supporters of Islamic party Jammat-e-Islami (JI) hold up portraits of ousted Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi. &#8212; AFP Photo


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## The SiLent crY

Jihad_ said:


> Me too, after Assad is brought to justice.


You should wait soooooooooo long .

Egypt will either be another Syria or a new puppet state like Saudi Arabia and their Gulf bros .


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## Doritos11

This should happen in Qatar not Egypt.

Btw who is Qatar going to support now in Egypt ? they will meddle again with their money.

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## MooshMoosh

Devil Soul said:


> *Pro-Morsi protests in Pakistan*
> 
> Pakistani supporters of Islamic party Jammat-e-Islami (JI) hold up portraits of ousted Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi.  AFP Photo



and Turkey


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## iranigirl2

*Massacre in Cairo deepens Egypt crisis*

A deadly shooting at the site of a sit-in by Muslim Brotherhood supporters in Cairo, demanding the reinstatement of ousted President Mohamed Morsi, has left dozens of people dead.

The Egyptian health ministry said at least 42 people had been killed and more than 300 injured the incident early on Monday morning.

Mohamed Mohamed Ibrahim El-Beltagy, a Brotherhood MP, described the incident as a "massacre" during dawn prayers, after police had stormed the site.

About 500 people were also reportedly injured.

A doctor told Al Jazeera that "the majority of injured had gunshot wounds to the head".

The Brotherhood said the dead and the injured have been taken to a makeshift hospital in Nasr City, a neighbourhood in the Egyptian capital.


Speaking to Al Jazeera, Gehad Haddad, a spokesman for Muslim Brotherhood, said that at around 3.30 in the morning, army and police forces started firing at sit-in protesters in front of the Republican Guard headquarters in Cairo.

*'Hit in the head'*


We have people hit in the head, we have bullets that exploded as they entered the body, cluttering organs and body parts he said.

Every police force in the world understands how to disperse a sit-in. This is just a criminal activity targeting protesters.




But the military said a "terrorist group" had tried to storm the Republican Guard facility, where Morsi is reportedly being held. It also said that two officer had also been killed. 

An Al Jazeera correspondent said military checkpoints been deployed around Nasr City.

Brotherhood's Haddad said there were two things the bloodbath was trying to do.



First is that we leave streets and forego the objective of bringing democracy in Egypt after 60 sixty years of military tyranny or they think that our blood is cheaper than any others blood in Egypt and no one would care, he said.

We are sticking to our ground, we will not be brought into a cycle of violence, we know how deadly that would be. Even if that means we will have to become the punching bag of the rest of society and our blood will flow for the rest of Egyptians to wake up and the rest of the world to understand that we are adamants of bringing democracy to our country.



Dozens have died and more than 1,000 people have been injured in street clashes between supporters and opponents of Morsi in the aftermath of the military coup last Wednesday.

Also on Monday, Egypt closed down the Cairo headquarters of the Brotherhood, saying weapons were found inside it.


The latest violence further raised political tensions, even as the country's interim leadership struggled to find a consensus on who should be the prime minister.

The Salafist Nour Party announced it was suspending its participation from talks over new government in protest against Monday's fatal shootings.

Earlier reports said interim president Adly Mansour was leaning towards appointing centre-left lawyer Ziad Bahaa Eldin as prime minister, after members of the Nour Party expressed concern at an earlier suggestion that the job could go to Nobel Laureate Mohamed ElBaradei.

But some Nour Party members expressed concern that the candidates had political affiliations.

Younes Makhyoun, Nour's leader, told Reuters: "Both are from the same party, the National Salvation Front, this is rejected. I fear it would be going from one exclusive approach to another," referring to accusations that the Brotherhood tried to monopolise power.

Meanwhile, the popular Salafist preacher Yaser Borhamy told Al Jazeera that he has nothing against Bahaa el-Din, but "they would rather have someone who does not belong to a political party - a pure technocrat if such thing exists," said Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel-Hamid.

She said others from Al Nour had been seen on local media channels saying they approve of Bahaa el-Din. 

AFP reported that the prime minister would be named on Monday, quoting the interim president's adviser.

Nour had signed up to the army's roadmap for the political transition, giving Islamist legitimacy to an overthrow rejected by Islamic parties aligned to Mursi's Muslim Brotherhood.

Brotherhood defiant

Unlike Nour, its bigger rival the Brotherhood has said it would have no part in the military-backed political process.

The army has denied it staged a coup, saying instead it was merely enforcing the will of the people after mass protests on June 30 calling for Morsi's resignation.

The pro-Morsi camp is refusing to budge until its leader is restored - an unlikely outcome.

On the other side of the political divide, hundreds of thousands of Morsi's opponents poured into Cairo's Tahrir Square, the cradle of the popular uprising to oust him.

On Sunday night, a carnival atmosphere took hold, and a troupe of folk musicians played darabukka drums and mizmar flutes as others danced and let off fireworks.


Massacre in Cairo deepens Egypt crisis - Middle East - Al Jazeera English


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## hussain0216

its a massacre

They are martyrs

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## Sedqal

Devil Soul said:


> *Pro-Morsi protests in Pakistan*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistani supporters of Islamic party Jammat-e-Islami (JI) hold up portraits of ousted Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi. &#8212; AFP Photo



There is a lesson to be learned for all Religious parties in Pakistan. You can't trust the army, your best bet will always be an elected Govt.


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## iranigirl2

Let the Saudis and Qataris fight it out in Egypt!!


I feel sorry for Egyptians you will never experience democracy or anything close to it, General Sisi is a Saudi puppet, if US cuts aid because of this coup, the Saudis will provide the aid instead and turn your country into a military dictatorship. They are also sabotaging reconciliation talks with their Al-nour party rejecting ElBaradei. Saudis are against democracy in Egypt. The Qataris are pro-Mulsim Brotherhood. Either way Egyptians will suffer..

Good luck.


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## MooshMoosh

More died 






More pics - http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...-mursi-govt-updates-news-108.html#post4500932


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## agentny17

The Egyptian Army Is Dismantling The Muslim Brotherhood and they have the vast majority of Egyptians on their side including all the effective institutions in the country. Police, Al Azhar, Church, Foreign ministry, Judges, and most political parties.... Is killing a good thing ?! No, but it is the only way you can deal with terrorists.... I can see the end of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt very soon, and just so you guys know civil war is not even an option in Egypt.


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## Solomon2

agentny17 said:


> The Egyptian Army Is Dismantling The Muslim Brotherhood and they have the vast majority of Egyptians on their side -


Is it just me or did most of the violence start after al-Qaradawi's Friday speech insisting Morsi be reinstated? 

I see from the photos that crowds of Morsi supporters are smaller today than yesterday - in the hundreds rather than thousands.

What is the al-Nour party up to?


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## Solomon2

Written by : Tariq Alhomayed
on : Monday, 8 Jul, 2013



Opinion: Crying over the Brotherhood

What we are witnessing in the crying over the fall of the Muslim Brotherhood, tells us that that it did not have a political program for all the Egyptians, but a program for a movement which wanted to control the Egyptian state according to its own agenda, not according to the Egyptian people and their aspirations.

As much as the fall of the Brotherhood, represented by the ousting of President Mursi, was a success for the Egyptian people and army, the fall of the Brotherhood also represents a spectacular political failure on the part of the organization, only rivaled by the Taliban&#8217;s political failure.

What happened in Egypt after the fall of Mubarak has exposed the Brotherhood as political failures, as they madeenemies of everyone: Al-Azhar, the judiciary, the media, businessmen and workers, minorities, political forces, and even the simple man on the street.

Former President Mohamed Mursi failed miserably to deal with Egyptian society in a politically effective way, with no compromise and no concessions, even when all indications said failure was inevitable, to the last moment of the Brotherhood&#8217;s rule.

Failure has continued after Mursi&#8217;s fall, as we see the Brotherhood&#8217;s guide making speeches and threats, as if Egyptians had elected the Brotherhood and its guide, not Mursi, who had forgotten that he came to power with a very small majority in the presidential elections.

The Brotherhood&#8217;s biggest failure today is in the violence shown by their supporters against Egyptians who went out into the street in unprecedented numbers, against the Brotherhood, who seem to have learnt nothing from all that they have been through.

Today we see a wave of tears over the Brotherhood amid a surge of distortion of facts, instead of a reflection on the lessons that Mursi&#8217;s downfall offers. Some say what happened in Egypt was a coup, when the reality is that the army, which stood by the Egyptians today, is the same army which stood by them against Mubarak yesterday.

The army did not even issue &#8216;statement number one&#8217; against Mursi, did not use violence, and did not monopolize power, instead, Genenral El-Sisi, showed political nous which the Brotherhood did not understand, where the army stood by the people, supported by the Al-Azhar and the Coptic Pope, and with the participation of the Salafists and the opposition forces. These were the Egyptians who the Brotherhood tried to exclude.

To understand the Brotherhood&#8217;s mentality in running Egypt, the following story&#8211;which I heard from an Arab prime minister&#8211;must be told: &#8220;A senior Egyptian Brotherhood leader visited me and said a senior Turkish official visited Egypt after the fall of Mubarak and asked: We hope you did not suffer much until Mubarak&#8217;s fall? The Brotherhood official answered: We thank God, because we see this as a form of jihad. The Turkish official replied: This is a minor jihad, the major jihad is still to come [meaning the harder work of government lies ahead].&#8221;

*This story and others, prove that the Brotherhood everywhere looked at Egypt as a trophy, not as a country for all, therefore, we can only say: God save Egypt, which is bigger than any single group.*

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## iranigirl2

agentny17 said:


> The Egyptian Army Is Dismantling The Muslim Brotherhood and they have the vast majority of Egyptians on their side including all the effective institutions in the country. Police, Al Azhar, Church, Foreign ministry, Judges, and most political parties.... Is killing a good thing ?! No, but it is the only way you can deal with terrorists.... I can see the end of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt very soon, and just so you guys know civil war is not even an option in Egypt.



Even if you kill all the Muslim Brotherhood members , it's very unlikely that Egypt will turn into a democracy, Don't forget what country is backing General Sisi and ordered the coup( Saudi Arabia). That country wants Egypt to go back to Mubarak's era. 

And all the institutions you mentioned are united in one cause, that doesn't mean they are united for democracy.


Egypt will turn into an autocratic country, once again.


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## Solomon2

Written by : Mohamed Abdu Hassanein
on : Sunday, 7 Jul, 2013

Mohamed Abdelaziz: The view from Tahrir Square
_Asharq Al-Awsat interviews one of the founders of the Tamarod movement__




A member of the Tamarod  Rebel! petition drive against Mursi, gestures with an Egyptian flag in front of army soldiers standing guard in front of protesters who are against Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi, near the Republican Guard headquarters in Cairo July 3, 2013. REUTERS/Amr Abdallah Dalsh_​

Cairo, Asharq Al-AwsatMohamed Abdelaziz, a founder of the Tamarod (rebellion) campaignwhich toppled President Mohamed Mursi a few days agohas revealed a meeting will take place shortly with interim President Adly Mansour and the chief-of-staff of the armed forces, Lt. Gen. Abdelfattah El-Sissi, in order to discuss plans for the formation of a national salvation government.

He stressed that such government will be led by a powerful political figure affiliated to the 25 January revolution, and aided by four deputies for economy, security, social dialogue, and national reconciliation.

Abdelaziz, accompanied by Mahmoud Badra representative of Tamarod campaignattended the meeting with Sisi last Wednesday, at the end of which, Sisi announced the ousting of Mursi and the implementation of road map for a transitional phase where the constitutional court chief is appointed interim president until early presidential elections are held.

In an *exclusive interview* with Asharq Al-Awsat, Abdelaziz added that the next government will be based on competence, not a party or sectarian quota system, and rejected claims that the recent events in Egypt were tantamount to a military coup, emphasizing that there this was a clear road map to hand over power to an elected president within a specified time-frame, adding that the armed forces commitment was undoubted.

*Asharq Al-Awsat: How far have you reached on the discussions to form a new government, and have interim president Adly Mansour or General Sisi spoken to you about this?*

Mohamed Abdelaziz: No direct negotiations have taken place so far on the formation of a transitional government, but a meeting will be held in the next few hours with president Adly Mansour and General Sisi. This is being arranged very soon, and talks are on-going about our suggestions regarding the names of the prime minister and his ministerial aides.

*Q. What are the most prominent names on your list for the new government?*

We have not decided on a list so far but will do soon. Discussions are continuing with all political powers. Some of the main points of the list of suggestions will be announced after meeting the president.

*Q. What are the broad lines for the government you want?*

We want a prime minister who is a strong political figure and who is linked to the revolution. He will work with four deputies, one for economic and financial affairs, one for security, another for social dialogue, and finally one for national reconciliation and transitional justice, on condition that these deputies are appointed on merit and expertise. The rest of the government must be one that is built on competence, not on the basis of party, political or sectarian affiliation. This is the only standard we want to use in selecting ministers.

*Q. Does that exclude the military or those affiliated to the Islamist parties from the next government?*

As I said, the main criterion will be competence. Whoever this prime minister was, if he is competent, then that is fine. This means that this will not be a government that is shared between political parties according to a quota system. It means that no one will be excluded, even the Islamic movement and its parties, as long as the person selected was competent. What will decide the appointment of a minister will be their ability to run the country amid these great challenges, and to be able to resolve the problems that were left to us by the previous government.

*Q. How do you see the current violent clashes on the streets, caused by the ousting of President Mursi, and the demands by some to reinstate him?*

I see that these are desperate attempts to bring violence back to the country, violence which killed former prime minister, Mahmoud Al-Nakrashi Basha, former President Anwar Al-Sadat, Farag Fouda and others. These people are trying to go back to what they know best, which is violence. However, the Egyptian people are united behind their army and will confront this terrorist group which is trying to being violence back. Dragging the country to civil war is something which will not be allowed by anyone. At the same time, we support any peaceful demonstrations because this is a right guaranteed by law to all, as long as it does not harm the security of the Egyptian people.

*Q: The Al-Gamaa Al-Islamiyya has suggested a referendum on the the armys road map and a return of former president Mursi to power. How do you view this proposal?*

Everybody must know that what took place here is that the army has sided with the peoples will, which was expressed by millions in the streets. Those who cling to the results of the previous presidential elections should know that what constitutional legitimacy aims to do is express the satisfaction of the street, and if anything other than that happens, that legitimacy is lost, and therefore, there is no chance of Mursi returning to power. All this is an attempt by some to impose their will on the Egyptian people.

*Q: Some have described the toppling of Mursi from power as a military coup. Is that a fair description?*

The bias of the armed forces towards the will of the people is not a military coup, it is a national duty necessitated by the national responsibility of the armed forces that lean towards the peoples will, in order to defend the gains made by the revolution, and defend the countrys security. This is what forced millions to go to the streets, in order to oust the defunct regime.

*Q: Do you not fear the possibility of the army seizing control and excluding civilians from power in the future?*

There is a clear road map which is to hand over power to a civilian president, elected through early presidential elections, within a certain time-frame. The armed forces and Gen. Sisi have stressed in the statement to the Egyptian people that they do not seek power, and that there commitment is clear. The road map does not give the army any exclusive role apart from their natural role in siding with the people and defending Egyptian national security. It does not give them any political role. We do not want the army to have any political role, and the army itself has distanced itself from political life.

*Q: How did you receive the resignation of the Attorney-General Abdel Meguid Mahmoud from his post after being returned through a judicial decision?*

We welcome it of course. It is a good decision and it is appreciated, despite having differences with him previously and the fact that I had asked for his removal. We hope the Supreme Judicial Council selects a new attorney-general who represents all Egyptians without bias to any side.


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## Mosamania

Hahahaha amazing, simply amazing. 

Iranians were happy as hell when Morsi was ousted, a few days alter they turn into the biggest supporters of Morsi after they found out KSA supported his ouster. 

Iranian Logic, hate just to hate. Saudi Arabia will always be your nightmare.

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## iranigirl2

Mosamania said:


> Hahahaha amazing, simply amazing.
> 
> Iranians were happy as hell when Morsi was ousted, a few days alter they turn into the biggest supporters of Morsi after they found out KSA supported his ouster.
> 
> Iranian Logic, hate just to hate. Saudi Arabia will always be your nightmare.



This is not about Iran or Iranian people. We know that Egypt is a lost cause, Mubarak, Morsi, etc... don't really make a difference for Iran. Their system is messed up, where military controls everything, but is dependent on outside aid ( USA, Saudi Arabia)

and Iranian officials were against the Military coup from the beginning, but they were also against Muslim brotherhood. 

and Yes, Saudi Arabia will probably install another autocrat in Egypt, which really doesn't make much of a difference for Iran, just like Mubarak's era.

The only people that will lose are the Egyptian people...


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## agentny17

Solomon2 said:


> Is it just me or did most of the violence start after al-Qaradawi's Friday speech insisting Morsi be reinstated?
> 
> I see from the photos that crowds of Morsi supporters are smaller today than yesterday - in the hundreds rather than thousands.
> 
> What is the al-Nour party up to?



No, they were already raged prior to what Al Qaradawy said.

Yeah, the crowed is getting smaller and smaller. Mori supporters are demonstrating in Cairo, although about 50% are from upper Egypt( I have a source inside). 

Al Nour is against the MB but i expect them to be very vocal against the army very soon. They have lost a lot of support since the party broke into two sides, and they lost even more support because of their stance against Morsi. Don't be fooled, all Islamists except for Al nour pary leaders(100 at max) are supporting Morsi and are/were in the streets. They have lost everybod's support in the society. That is my take

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## ResurgentIran

iranigirl2 said:


> This is not about Iran or Iranian people. We know that Egypt is a lost cause, Mubarak, Morsi, etc... don't really make a difference for Iran. Their system is messed up, where military controls everything.
> 
> and Iranian officials were against the Military coup from the beginning, but they were also against Muslim brotherhood.



Iran should just stay the hell out of this. I thought it was so unsmart of Turkish officials to come out and publically condemn the coup. Just look at the street, the Egyptian Army is a hero for the people.

And now reportedly Iran is doing the same as Turkey, and also condemning the coup. So idiotic, if you ask me. 
Let Egyptians sort this out for themselves. Iranian and Turkish officials/diplomats (and everyone else) ought to just shut up.

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## Mosamania

iranigirl2 said:


> This is not about Iran or Iranian people. We know that Egypt is a lost cause, Mubarak, Morsi, etc... don't really make a difference for Iran. Their system is messed up, where military controls everything, but is dependent on outside aid ( USA, Saudi Arabia)
> 
> and Iranian officials were against the Military coup from the beginning, but they were also against Muslim brotherhood.
> 
> and Yes, Saudi Arabia will probably install another autocrat in Egypt, which really doesn't make much of a difference for Iran, just like Mubarak's era.
> 
> The only people that will lose are the Egyptian people...



Exactly this is not about Iran or Iranian people. And no Egypt will never be a lost cause. Egypt is the apple of every Arab's eyes. So you who wish it ill can suck it.


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## agentny17

iranigirl2 said:


> Even if you kill all the Muslim Brotherhood members , it's very unlikely that Egypt will turn into a democracy, Don't forget what country is backing General Sisi and ordered the coup( Saudi Arabia). That country wants Egypt to go back to Mubarak's era.
> 
> And all the institutions you mentioned are united in one cause, that doesn't mean they are united for democracy.
> 
> 
> Egypt will turn into an autocratic country, once again.



No, Egypt will be more deomcratic... Army will be influential still, but they should be.. 40% can not even read and write, so mistakes are expected, so the army has to step in every now and then behind closed doors and this should be understandable. 

It was not a coup and it has nothing to do with Saudi Arabia.


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## iranigirl2

ResurgentIran said:


> Iran should just stay the hell out of this. I thought it was so unsmart of Turkish officials to come out and publically condemn the coup. Just look at the street, the Egyptian Army is a hero for the people.
> 
> And now reportedly Iran is doing the same as Turkey, and also condemning the coup. So idiotic, if you ask me.
> Let Egyptians sort this out for themselves. Iranian and Turkish officials/diplomats (and everyone else) ought to just shut up.



Well, we have to speak out against the Saudis, they are preventing democracy everywhere, in Egypt, yemen, Bahrain, etc..

They are constantly interfering in other countries affairs, because they are scared democracy will knock on their own doors...


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## Solomon2

agentny17 said:


> Yeah, the crowed is getting smaller and smaller. Mori supporters are demonstrating in Cairo, although about 50% are from upper Egypt( I have a source inside).


What is happening in Alexandria and Suez? 



> Al Nour is against the MB but i expect them to be very vocal against the army very soon. They have lost a lot of support since the party broke into two sides, and they lost even more support because of their stance against Morsi. Don't be fooled, all Islamists except for Al nour pary leaders(100 at max) are supporting Morsi and are/were in the streets. They have lost everybod's support in the society. That is my take


I really don't know much about them and I suspect their attitude in the next few weeks will become important.


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## ResurgentIran

iranigirl2 said:


> Well, we have to speak out against the Saudis, they are preventing democracy everywhere, in Egypt, yemen, Bahrain, etc..



Im sorry but Saudis (or anyone else) have absolutely no power to control Egypt. Egypt is a nation of over 80 million people.
If the next elected leader do not serve the interests of the Egyptian people, the same thing will happen as it does now.

And if, God forbid, Egypt descends into a military dictatorship that does Saudis bidding (I think the notion is quite ridiculous ot be honest), then again Egyptian people will turn up in the millions to protest.

This is a struggle for the Egyptians. Its not our country, its not the Saudis country, its not the Turks country, its not the Qataris country etc..
In any case, I wish that Iran stays out it.

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## Mosamania

iranigirl2 said:


> Well, we have to speak out against the Saudis, they are preventing democracy everywhere, in Egypt, yemen, Bahrain, etc..
> 
> They are constantly interfering in other countries affairs, because they are scared democracy will knock on their own doors...



See what I mean @agentny17 ??

Because we congratulated Egypt on this development they immediately turned against it . It is like the only reason they are against is because we are with it.

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## Arabian Legend

iranigirl2 said:


> This is not about Iran or Iranian people. We know that Egypt is a lost cause, Mubarak, Morsi, etc... don't really make a difference for Iran. Their system is messed up, where military controls everything.
> 
> and Iranian officials were against the Military coup from the beginning, but they were also against Muslim brotherhood.



That's an absolute domestic affair, whether Iran is with it or against it doesn't make any difference.

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## iranigirl2

agentny17 said:


> No, Egypt will be more deomcratic....



We just have to wait and see what happens, there might be more uprisings and counter-revolutions.

But my analysis is based on facts as to what's going on right now, not opinion.


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## MooshMoosh

post massacre


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## iranigirl2

Mosamania said:


> See what I mean @agentny17 ??
> 
> Because we congratulated Egypt on this development they immediately turned against it . It is like the only reason they are against is because we are with it.



Iranian officials have not changed their stance, they were against the military coup. but didn't like the MB either.

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## MooshMoosh

iranigirl2 said:


> Iranian officials have not changed their stance, they were against the military coup. but didn't like the MB either.


Don't lie, they wanted him out and supported the secular parties since they already stated they supported the Shiites and Iran. Iran hated MB because they did not protect the Shiites especially when when Shehata and 3 others will beaten to death and also he was infront of Sheikh Muhammad Hassan when he said "I ask Morsi, do not open the door for Rafidhas in Egypt" during the Syrian revolutionary speech. Also, Morsi was the only leader who spoke love about the Sahaba in "TEHRAN" infront of the Iranian governments.

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## Hussein

agentny17 said:


> No, Egypt will be more deomcratic... Army will be influential still, but they should be.. 40% can not even read and write, so mistakes are expected, so the army has to step in every now and then behind closed doors and this should be understandable.
> 
> It was not a coup and it has nothing to do with Saudi Arabia.


yep

anyway here what i can see from what happened:
1/ USA was supporting Morsi first 
(see McCain words right now)
2/ when USA was in contact with army and after a so huge protest
they accepted the fact people wanted a change and then recognize it
3/ KSA and Qatar just followed this . 
this has nothing of KSA or USA coup. nothing is showing it. nothing is seriously showing this could be a possibility.
and well that would be quite stupid.

4/ Egypt to Egyptians. maybe they just got it.


Solomon2 said:


> I really don't know much about them and I suspect their attitude in the next few weeks will become important.


scary from videos to facebook pages. what i can read and i guess most of you...

we should all support Egypt unity and peace. and they calm down to let any candidate possible for the next elections.
not supporting one side or another .
firing bullets on people' heads i am not sure it can calm down situation. .. careful...

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## Armstrong

iranigirl2 said:


> Iranian officials have not changed their stance, they were against the military coup. but didn't like the MB either.



Wassup baby sister ? 

Stop teasing my Arab brothers....please ! 

Only I can tease them !


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## ResurgentIran

I dont know if I personally would call it a coup. According to some sources there were over 30 millions protesting against Morsi and calling for his ouster. It seems his rule has been THAT incompetent and untenable.
When there were signs he was not giving up power or accomoting the will of the people, a more powerful insititution in the Egyptian Army had to step in, to protect the state.

If there are new elections, I dont think this can be called a coup.

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## iranigirl2

@agentny17 

I'm anti-MB, anti-military dictatorship, anti-autocracy.

I'm pro-democracy.

But the chances that Egypt will turn into a democracy is not looking too good right now..

Hopefully I'm wrong!


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## Armstrong

MooshMoosh said:


>



Respect !

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## ResurgentIran

iranigirl2 said:


> @agentny17
> 
> I'm anti-MB, anti-military dictatorship, anti-autocracy.
> 
> I'm pro-democracy.
> 
> But the chances that Egypt will turn into a democracy is not looking too good right now..
> 
> Hopefully I'm wrong!



Why not?
Its too early to tell. There is civil strife going on right now. Military has to intervene to uphold security and protect the state.
Didnt al Sisi say there would be new elections?

I think there is very good chance that Egypt will become democratic.

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## iranigirl2

ResurgentIran said:


> Why not?
> Its too early to tell. There is civil strife going on right now. Military has to intervene to uphold security and protect the state.
> Didnt al Sisi say there would be new elections?
> 
> I think there is very good chance that Egypt will become democratic.




If Egypt turns into a liberal democracy, it will become a friend of Iran!

There are a lot of people that are against this happening! a lot of surrounding countries. They much rather have it turn into a autocracy. 

So, let's hope I'm wrong!


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## ResurgentIran

iranigirl2 said:


> If Egypt turns into a liberal democracy, it will become a friend of Iran!
> 
> There are a lot of people that are against this happening! a lot of surrounding countries. They much rather have it turn into a autocracy.
> 
> So, let's hope I'm wrong!



Sure, but Iran itself is not exactly a liberal democracy at the moment.
Imo Iran is a military dictatorship, that needs to reform and change in some significant ways.

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## Mosamania

iranigirl2 said:


> If Egypt turns into a liberal democracy, it will become a friend of Iran!
> 
> There are a lot of people that are against this happening! a lot of surrounding countries. They much rather have it turn into a autocracy.
> 
> So, let's hope I'm wrong!



Being against Iran is not a religious thing, only sectarian people such as yourself see it in that light. Iran is a political mischief maker, nobody trusts it because it has history of creating strife wherever it goes. 

So Egypt reassertig its Pro-Arab stance will be the normal outcome of this situation. Don't forget Iran condemning the revolution will not be forgoton so easily.


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## iranigirl2

ResurgentIran said:


> Sure, but Iran itself is not exactly a liberal democracy at the moment.
> Imo Iran is a military dictatorship, that needs to reform and change in some significant ways.



Iran is not a military dictatorship nor a liberal democracy.

Our system is setup in a way that makesures the military doesn't dominate, and other institutions in Iran keeps an eye out on the military.

But if Egypt turns into a liberal democracy, it will be much more friendlier to Iran.


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## ResurgentIran

Mosamania said:


> Being against Iran is not a religious thing, only sectarian people such as yourself see it in that light. Iran is a political mischief maker, nobody trusts it because it has history of creating strife wherever it goes.
> 
> So Egypt reassertig its Pro-Arab stance will be the normal outcome of this situation. Don't forget Iran condemning the revolution will not be forgoton so easily.



Dude, everywhere Saudi lays its print, takfiri terrorism follows.

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## ResurgentIran

iranigirl2 said:


> Iran is not a military dictatorship nor a liberal democracy.
> 
> Our system is setup in a way that makesures the military doesn't dominate, and other institution in Iran keeps an eye out on the military.
> 
> But if Egypt turns into a liberal democracy, it will be much more friendlier to Iran.



When I say military dictatorship, I dont mean the regular military but rather the IRGC/Pasdaran.


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## iranigirl2

farag said:


> I have two recommendations for you:
> Build up girlish manners.
> Comment less.



lol thank you. I'll take your recommendation. But this is a free forum, where everyone is free to contribute. As long as we are respectful to each other.



ResurgentIran said:


> When I say military dictatorship, I dont mean the regular military but the IRGC/Pasdaran.



They are also kept in check by the actual military, parliament, and the president. They control some parts of the economy, but nothing like Egypt where 40% of the economy is controlled by the military. Iran's system is setup in a way ,where no institution can dominate, they all keep an eye out on each other, if someone steps out of line , they are slapped. 2009, might have changed that abit, but now it's going back to how it used to be.

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

ResurgentIran said:


> So basically what you are advocating is that Egypt goes back to the status quo...
> How about those 20-30 million people that were protesting fiercly against Morsi?
> 
> You need to realise that Morsi governing Egypt, in long term, is untenable.



if 20-30 millions were protesting Morsi then where they were in the day that election had been held..May be they all have born after election date...dont believe anti-MB media ballons so much...
The only way of exiting from the that terrible turmoil is the respecting the result of election and wait for next election...There is no any democracy even no any religions and holly book which satisfy 100% of society..




farag said:


> I have a question regarding AKP hypocrisy:
> 
> If democracy is just the election, how is egyptian mursi legal but Iraqi Maliki is not legitimate?
> 
> 
> 
> Why does anyone need to fake the al Qaeda flag?
> Just see how many users like you are pro mursi and have al Qaeda flag as avatar.



Use the word of ''hypocrisy'' for those who deserved.
If you will try to hide behinde exceptionals Adolf Hitler better exception than Maliki. Because he allready had came in power through elections....

Exeptionals never change the rules of true...An fair electoral system is the best option over all other alternatives..Even Military coup isnot accpted as the one of worst alternative model.

Dude, i can claim that none of any country which involved in military coup dont consider the national interest of Egypt as much as AKP government do..From west to East and Arap countries, every country supporting his puppets and trying to boost his proxies in Egypt for their own interests.

It is the bigest fatal error of you Egyptians by trusting on foreign states no matter west, East, muslim or arap countries..The best way is to keep Army distance from intervention of internal politics and create an mutual consensus on a fair electoral system...

If MB is bad then other parties sshould unite and prepare reasonable and appreciatable social, economic, health,educational and so on programms and projects in order to be able to challange MB..

No one fond of you Egyptians and care about your future somuch. It is time to be patient, calm and wise...
May Allah save Egypt from all Evils..

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## farag

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> if 20-30 millions were protesting Morsi then where they were in the day that election had been held..May be they all have born after election date...dont believe anti-MB media ballons so much...
> The only way of exiting from the that terrible turmoil is the respecting the result of election and wait for next election...There is no any democracy even no any religions and holly book which satisfy 100% of society..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Use the word of ''hypocrisy'' for those who deserved.
> If you will try to hide behinde exceptionals Adolf Hitler better exception than Maliki. Because he allready had came in power through elections....
> 
> Exeptionals never change the rules of true...An fair electoral system is the best option over all other alternatives..Even Military coup isnot accpted as the one of worst alternative model.
> 
> Dude, i can claim that none of any country which involved in military coup dont consider the national interest of Egypt as much as AKP government do..From west to East and Arap countries, every country supporting his puppets and trying to boost his proxies in Egypt for their own interests.
> 
> It is the bigest fatal error of you Egyptians by trusting on foreign states no matter west, East, muslim or arap countries..The best way is to keep Army distance from intervention of internal politics and create an mutual consensus on a fair electoral system...
> 
> If MB is bad then other parties sshould unite and prepare reasonable and appreciatable social, economic, healt,educational and so on programms and project in order to be able challange MB..
> 
> No one fond of you Egyptians and care about your future somuch. It is time to be patient, calm and wise...
> May Allah save Egypt from all Evils..



It was not my answer. What does mursi have that Maliki lacks?


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## iPhone

What happened to the fireworks on tahrir square? The jubilant folks on the removal of morsi? Now it seems everything's going to hell, as predicted. Freakin idiots, removed a democratly elected leader by coup of armed forces. How can that ever be in favor of any country?


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## ResurgentIran

farag said:


> It was not my answer. What does mursi have that Maliki lacks?



A b!tchin beard.

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## iranigirl2

ResurgentIran said:


> A b!tchin beard.



Asia Times Online :: Islam's civil war moves to Egypt


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## Ceylal

MooshMoosh said:


> Don't lie, they wanted him out and supported the secular parties


come on moosh, be good sport! The only thing that the MB gave for the past year to the citizen of Egypt is dozes after dozes of religion with a rosey future that never came. Egyptian like others in the world, need work, food, education, habitat...They didn't get any of that but inflation, shortages of basic necessities...etc...The removal of Morsi was a must [since arab rulesr are not known to resign for their failures] was essential to save Egypt.





We lived it, I know what I am talking about...

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## Khaqan Humayun

M.Mursi is a real Leader after Jamal Abdul Nasir.
I think isreal and amreca is now happy what thay want is going to be done by Army of egypt.


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## iranigirl2

Khaqan Humayun said:


> M.Mursi is a real Leader after Jamal Abdul Nasir.
> I think isreal and amreca is now happy what thay want is going to be done by Army of egypt.



No, Obama, and a lot of Republicans supported the Muslim Brotherhood, because they thought MB represents Muslim democracy. Their policy was totally wrong, since more than half of Egyptians rejected MB.


Now, they are aligned with Saudis, to oust MB.

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## al-Hasani

farag said:


> I have two recommendations for you:
> Build up girlish manners.
> Comment less.



7abibi, that is because she is actually a male pretending to be a girl. Many other members have noticed this even Iranian members.

She moreover hates everything Arabic, Semitic, MUslim and likes to stick her nose in our internal Arab matters.

Let me repeat what some of my Egyptian brothers have already written here and most importantly on Arab forums.

Iranian influence in Egypt is *ZERO*. Egypt is an fellow Arab and Semitic country and its history, culture, traditions, language and religion (Sunni Islam) is tied to our Arab and Semitic world. KSA is a neighboring country of Egypt just across the beautiful Red Sea and the ties are ancient and the Hejazi dialects which more than half of KSA speaks is very close to the Egyptian dialects and many millions Egyptians have ties to Hejaz and other parts of the Arab world. Including a certain Gamal Abdel Nasser.

Iran on the other hand is non-Arab country, non-Semitic, a country that lies 3000km away from Egypt, not even a Sunni Muslim country and with a completely different culture, view of the world and politics, let alone language etc. although Persian is heavily influenced by Arabic and their alphabet is even based on the Arabic alphabet, religion and thus traditions and culture.

Also before Irani*MALE*2 starts to worry and meddle too much in our beautiful Arab world then she needs to deal with her isolated, poor, sanctioned and largely hated regime in the Arab and Sunni world that is a criminal and terrorist supporting regime that loves to meddle in every single Arab country. Deal with your cutting machines that cut fingers off in public, lashings and public hangings by crane that can take up to 2-3 minutes, worry about the millions of drug addicts in Iran (highest number in the world), all the poverty, unemployment and your political fiascos.

Just a little advice because I am getting tired of your nonsense and ignorance. Something you share with all Iranian members here who love to meddle in Arab matters despite knowing nothing about our world let alone speaking Arabic.

I am sure that there are normal Iranians but the bunch that is on this forum surely does not represent those individuals apart from a TINY minority although they are mostly clueless about the Arab world too.

Lastly KSA has aboslutely nothing to do with what happened in Egypt. We support every leader of Egypt that has legitimacy and is supported by the Egyptian people. That is a internal matter moreover. We care much more about the Egyptian people and the stability of Egypt than a few politicians and their parties. Does that clown believe that we can switch the light on and off and change the regime in Egypt and replace it with another as we please? Keep the nonsense to Iran.

*EDIT: *Mosab, no need to worry about that troll.


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## Hussein

iranigirl2 said:


> Iran is not a military dictatorship nor a liberal democracy.
> 
> Our system is setup in a way that makesures the military doesn't dominate, and other institutions in Iran keeps an eye out on the military.
> 
> But if Egypt turns into a liberal democracy, it will be much more friendlier to Iran.


Khamenei is the big boss. it is not called theocracy for no reason.

i would add that knowing both armies , pasdarans even check the activities inside the regular army.
they check if they won't be a problem for the king.. sorry the master of Iran , the 12th imam representative,
his majesty Khamenei 


back to Egypt
http://www.aljazeera.com/watch_now/
seems journalists were asking to kick out the Al Jazeera journalist in the conference 
lol



> The army issued more than one warning: That military personnel cannot be approached. This is common knowledge in any country in the world.





> Egypt cannot be built by anger, it will be built by the strong arms of all Egyptians without any exception or discrimination. Those who demonstrate on Nahda Square are Egyptian citizens, our brothers and sisters. We call on them to remain peaceful. The EAF promise not to hunt down any person. All Egyptians are free men so long as they do not violate the law. There will be no martial law in the coming days.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

once again 
what happens in Egypt is Egyptian matter 
some regimes have problems in their country want to distract their people like turkey tunis they care more about their brotherhood than their nations 
the majority of the Egyptian people and the army and police can defend Egypt from the traitors 
what happened made us better more united and proud of our homeland we regained control of our country and will not let anyone steal our homeland

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## al-Hasani

*IraniMALE2:*

Also what a moronic claim to say that Iran is the most "democratic state" in the Middle East. LOL. There is not a single gif that would be more fitting to ridicule that statement, LOL.

Ever heard about Turkey and countless of well-functioning, rich and stable Arab countries?

Clueless troll.

Why don't you show your newest cutting machine that cuts people hands off in public, your public hangings by crane that can last up to 2-3 minutes before the victim dies, your corruption, sanctioned, isolated and poor country etc. Your highest number of drug addicts in the world (percentage wise), especially heroin, your fake wannabe-Arab Iranian Mullah's and their infallible rule, your Mullah theocracy and so much more. Your president and so-called elections that are controlled by your ugly Mullah, and their selection of appointed candidates (LOL) is the biggest joke of "democracy" I have heard about. Especially when they are mere puppets of your fake Azeri Supreme leader who falsely claims to belong to the lineage of our dear Prophet Muhammad (saws). That alone is a great, great sin.

Just, WOW.

You are really a joke. Wonder what is behind that computer screen. Probably something very much looking like a male and a disturbed one at the same time. Not a pleasant sight AT ALL.

Instead of making 100 threads daily about the Arab world you better fix your own shithole. It needs fixing urgently. Maybe somebody would have some respect for you then, Mr. "big supporter of democracy but always keeping quite about my own un-democratic shithole".


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## MooshMoosh

Khaqan Humayun said:


> M.Mursi is a real Leader *after Jamal Abdul Nasir.*
> I think isreal and amreca is now happy what thay want is going to be done by Army of egypt.


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## ResurgentIran

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> once again
> what happens in Egypt is Egyptian matter
> some regimes have problems in their country want to distract their people like turkey tunis they care more about their brotherhood than their nations
> the majority of the Egyptian people and the army and police can defend Egypt from the traitors
> what happened made us better more united and proud of our homeland we regained control of our country and will not let anyone steal our homeland



Very well said Mahmoud. No one should interfere in Egypt internal matters.

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## MooshMoosh

al-Hasani said:


> *IraniMALE2:*
> 
> for you then, Mr. "big supporter of democracy but always keeping quite about my own un-democratic *shithole
> *".


Bro chill, you could get a ban or infraction again if you swear without symbols.


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## Jihad_

The 'protector' of Egypt's revolution - the army - is now playing the butcher

Massacre in Cairo deepens Egypt crisis 



> The killing of more than 40 demonstrators has derailed the political process that appeared to be in the early stages of stabilizing the crisis; the army must regain legitimacy as an institution acting for the people.


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## Solomon2

Gaza terrorists infiltrate Sinai

Dozens of terrorists affiliated with Muslim Brotherhood head to Sinai, take part in assaults on Egyptian army posts. Egypt authorities scramble to seal off smuggling tunnels

Roi Kais
Published: 07.08.13, 16:29 / Israel News

Dozens of members of terrorist groups affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood have left the Gaza Strip headed to the Sinai Peninsula to fight the Egyptian army, Ynet has learned. The terrorists are taking part in the Muslim Brotherhood's struggle against the ouster of President Mohamed Morsi. They had been taken part in battles in El-Arish over the weekend and attacked several Egyptian army posts.

The Egyptian army has accelerated efforts to seal smuggling tunnels connecting Gaza and Sinai with 50 tunnels already closed. Nevertheless, a large portion of the tunnels remains active. Last Saturday, a senior Egyptian official held the Islamic Jihad and members of Hamas accountable for inflaming the situation in Sinai.

The official told the London-based Al-Hayat newspaper that Egyptian authorities have observed the entry of 150 Izz al-Din al-Qassam operatives into Sinai via the tunnels. "They were wearing uniforms associated with the military police before joining Jihadists in Sinai," he said.

[Video "Clashes in Cairo" here in original]

The official added that the army suspects that Palestinians took part in assaults on army posts last Friday.





Cairo violence (Photo: Getty Imagebank)

In addition, Egyptian security sources told the Al-Masry Al-Youm newspaper that Muslim Brotherhood officials are overseeing terrorist activity against army and police forces in Sinai and coordinating these efforts with commanders in Hamas' military wing.

At least 42 people were killed on Monday when Islamist demonstrators enraged by the military overthrow of Morsi said the army opened fire during morning prayers at the Cairo barracks where he is being held.

But the military said "a terrorist group" tried to storm the Republican Guard compound and one army officer had been killed and 40 wounded. Soldiers returned fire when they were attacked by armed assailants, a military source said.

Solomon2: the M-B may be seeking to attack Egyptian forces in Sinai because these are comparatively weak, their numbers and equipment limited by the terms of the Israel-Egyptian peace treaty.


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## MooshMoosh

I like how the three Nasserist users only used empty words instead of providing clear source, why is that? are you trying your best to make others not believe sh@t? What I am doing is posting vids which the army is obviously killing innocent and unnarmed civilians. This is worst than the 2011 uprising, the army is involving in this, not the police. Here is another brutal video of the snipers on the roof sniping civilians which was posted an hour ago.

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## Mahmoud_EGY



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## Yzd Khalifa

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> they need to accept what happened they cant finish off the army and the police and the people then rule



I guess you're right. Nothing can easily be imposed by force on a revolutionary society like Egypt.

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## FaujHistorian

illusion8 said:


> ....
> *"The forceful removal of the nation's first democratically-elected civilian president risks sending a message to Islamists that they have no place in the political order; sowing fears among them that they will suffer yet another bloody crackdown; and thus potentially prompting violent, even desperate resistance by Morsi's followers,'' the Brussels based International Crisis group warned in a statement.*
> 
> 
> Mohamed Morsi's fall a blow to Islamists - Indian Express
> 
> 
> Does this Bode well for the attempt of bringing the Taliban into the Afghan Government? Islamists and democracy don't go hand in hand - I guess.
> @muse, @Secur, @FaujHistorian, @Bang Galore, @Zarvan.





Politics should never be mixed with madrassah (religious institution), as the politicians can utterly destroy the spiritual aspects of the religion (be it Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Bhuddism, etc).


Egypt will remain in trouble as long as its politicians continue to violate the sanctity of religion. 


peace

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## idune

iranigirl2 said:


> No, Obama, and a lot of Republicans supported the Muslim Brotherhood, because they thought MB represents Muslim democracy. Their policy was totally wrong, since more than half of Egyptians rejected MB.
> 
> 
> Now, they are aligned with Saudis, to oust MB.



I think you are wrong on your reading about underline politics. US never supported MB. US had no choice BUT go with popular Egyptian choice when Mubarak was deposed. At the same time US along with house saud who feels MB as a threat to their corrupt monarchy, hatched this elitist driven protest to overthrow MB govt. Just look around you, same thing US doing in Turkey to overthrow AKP regime. Goal of all these to secure Zionist agenda and unfortunately house of Saud ambition to cling on to power align with that.

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## Hussein




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## Algeria

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I guess you're right. Nothing can easily be imposed by force on a revolutionary society like Egypt.



The Saudi backed coup was imposed by force on Egyptians.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Algeria said:


> The Saudi backed coup was imposed by force on Egyptians.



Do you have any concrete proof you can back up your argument with.


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## idune

*Iran criticizes Egyptian army for meddling in politics*

Iran has dismissed as &#8220;unacceptable&#8221; the Egyptian army&#8217;s intervention in the political affairs the North African country, saying foreign hands are at work in Egypt.

"The interference of military forces in the political scene is unacceptable and concerning," Iran's Foreign Ministry Spokesman Abbas Araqchi said Monday.

He added that developments in Egypt are multifaceted and what&#8217;s important is putting significance on the &#8220;legitimate demands of the Egyptian people.&#8221;

&#8221;Driving the Egyptian society towards disagreement and division, and polarizing the society are [all] dangerous [issues]. All developments are occurring simultaneously and this has complicated the situation,&#8221; Araqchi stated.

The Iranian spokesperson said that Egypt is a great country in the Muslim world which has been a pioneer of many intellectual movements in the Arab and Muslim worlds. 

Full report:
PressTV - Iran criticizes Egyptian army for meddling in politics


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## idune

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Do you have any concrete proof you can back up your argument with.



It is well known fact house of saud is afraid of MB and had been concocting to push MB out. In the geo politics proof can not be any clear than following.



> *Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates Rush to Congratulate Egyptian Military on Transition*
> 
> From King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia came a message released by the Saudi Press Agency. "I appeal to Allah Almighty," the king tells interim president Adly Mansour, "to help you to shoulder the responsibility laid on your shoulder to achieve the hopes of our sisterly people of the Arab Republic of Egypt." The king also congratulated the military officers who arranged the coup, who "managed to save Egypt at this critical moment from a dark tunnel God only could apprehend its dimensions and repercussions, but the wisdom and moderation came out of those men to preserve the rights of all parties in the political process."
> 
> Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nahyan, the foreign minister of the United Arab Emirates, also congratulated Egypt on its transition, saying in a statement that "the UAE has full confidence that the great people of Egypt will be able to overcome the current difficult moments that the country is experiencing in order to reach a safe and prosperous future." The Emirati minister also singled out the military for praise, adding that "the great Egyptian army proves, once again, that it is the strong shield and the protector that guarantees that the country is a land of institutions and law that embraces all the components of the Egyptian people."
> 
> Well, then. It's pretty clear who the two Gulf countries were rooting for.
> 
> Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates Rush to Congratulate Egyptian Military on Transition | FP Passport


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## Surenas

Iran is afraid of all this being the end of political islam in the region.

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## Jihad_

Egypt's Islamists call for 'intifada' as they vow to fight for Mohammed Morsi - Telegraph



> Egypt's Islamists promised to keep up the fight to restore Mohammed Morsi to power and stage an "intifada", after protests failed to muster the strength to challenge the country's military leaders.


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## Yzd Khalifa

I only asked for a solid proof, not a piece of an article in some weirdos' blog. 

 


idune said:


> It is well known fact house of saud is afraid of MB and had been concocting to push MB out. In the geo politics proof can be any clear than following.


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## Ceylal

idune said:


> It is well known fact house of saud is afraid of MB and had been concocting to push MB out. In the geo politics proof can be any clear than following.



That is not a proof, If you remember, Saudi and Egypt have just conducted together military drills...Foes do not do that. Egyptian people, even the one that voted for Morsi were on the street asking his dismissal...that is a fact...We all saw it!


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## idune

Surenas said:


> Iran is afraid of all this being the end of political islam in the region.



Regardless of Iran interest, term "political Islam" is western invention. There is no such thing "political Islam" but Islam, period.

On the topic, no one in their right mind would accept western and zionist backed coup to overthrow an elected govt. That being said Iran has political and geopolitical stake on Egypt that is rule by people wish rather than army and elitists who are backed US, zionst and by house of saud.


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## Ceylal

Surenas said:


> *Iran* is afraid of all this being the end of political islam in the region.


Iran is not the promoter of the Arab Spring..members of the GCC are the culprit...Stop using Iran or Israel every time a bearded goat get smoked.


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## idune

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I only asked for a solid proof, not a piece of an article in some weirdos' blog.



You can ask and pound all the sand but US has not found proof of who killed Kennedy yet. Hope you realize no one going to show you video /audio that house of saud have been supporting MB ouster in Egypt.


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## Ceylal

Algeria said:


> The Saudi *backed* coup was *imposed* by force on Egyptians.


Ok with it yes, it serves their interest...Backed it, doubt it...The Egyptian army listen to the desire of the Egyptians and acted on their behalf to save the country. No more no less...The future will tell us more...


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## SarthakGanguly

I agree with idune. Political Islam is a politically correct term. As if there is an apolitical Islam! Islam is supposed to encompass every aspect of life.


idune said:


> Regardless of Iran interest, term "political Islam" is western invention. There is no such thing "political Islam" but Islam, period.
> 
> On the topic, no one in their right mind would accept western and zionist backed coup to overthrow an elected govt. That being said Iran has political and geopolitical stake on Egypt that is rule by people wish rather than army and elitists who are backed US, zionst and by house of saud.


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## Algeria

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Do you have any concrete proof you can back up your argument with.


No but based on the reactions on social media, most Saudis believe their government supported the coup.

Can you deny that your government hates the brotherhood?
Can you deny that the brotherhood advocate Islam and Sharia?
So your government is an enemy of Islam and Munafiqeen.


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## idune

Ceylal said:


> That is not a proof, If you remember, Saudi and Egypt have just conducted together military drills...Foes do not do that. Egyptian people, even the one that voted for Morsi were on the street asking his dismissal...that is a fact...We all saw it!



military drill is nothing but customary affairs specially between two Muslim countries. Saudis has good relation with Egyptian military BUT same can not be said for MB or democratic institutions. I am sure Saudi people has all great wishes for Egyptians but it is house of Saud which is afraid of MB and democratic scenario most Saudis are craving for.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Since you failed to represent a proof for the claims you've made, your argument is invalid. 


You came from a country that I highly respect, and I politely ask you to stop harassing me. 


Algeria said:


> No but based on the reactions on social media, most Saudis believe their government supported the coup.
> 
> Can you deny that your government hates the brotherhood?
> Can you deny that the brotherhood advocate Islam and Sharia?
> So your government is an enemy of Islam and Munafiqeen.





idune said:


> You can ask and pound all the sand but US has not found proof of who killed Kennedy yet. Hope you realize no one going to show you video /audio that house of saud have been supporting MB ouster in Egypt.


You argument is void. 

When it comes to the politics ME, You are politically illiterate. you may check out @Ceylal to realize the realpolitik of the Egyptian society, as well as its military establishments.

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## BLACKEAGLE

Algeria said:


> No but based on the reactions on social media, most Saudis believe their government supported the coup.
> 
> Can you deny that your government hates the brotherhood?
> Can you deny that the brotherhood advocate Islam and Sharia?
> So your government is an enemy of Islam and Munafiqeen.








@Yzd Khalifa
May god help you, you were blamed after ousting Mubarak, and when Morsi was elected and now when he was ousted. It's true that the MB and Arab Monarchies don't go along including the KSA but it has no direct role in ousting him.


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## Yzd Khalifa

I guess that's the taxation of being a Saudi ._.


BLACKEAGLE said:


> @Yzd Khalifa
> May god help you, you were blamed after ousting Mubarak, and when Morsi was elected and now when he was ousted. It's true that the MB and Arab Monarchies don't go along including the KSA but it has no direct role in ousting him.

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## Hussein

idune said:


> Regardless of Iran interest, term "political Islam" is western invention. There is no such thing "political Islam" but Islam, period..



if we hear some people , even our government then would be created and invented by West ?
there is political Islam: use of Islam as political tool : leadership in Iran , in constitution somewhere else
this is political Islam

Islam is a religion. it is private . it is communauty. it is not a nation, it is not a politic to serve one group of person or give power to such group or sect.

and this has nothing to do with West . period.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I guess that's the taxation of being a Saudi ._.



It's a taxation of being a great country and people.

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## Hussein

SarthakGanguly said:


> I agree with idune. Political Islam is a politically correct term. As if there is an apolitical Islam! Islam is supposed to encompass every aspect of life.


that's a big difference between Islam would deal with aspects of life
and use Islam to dominate/government/leadership ...



Yzd Khalifa said:


> I only asked for a solid proof, not a piece of an article in some weirdos' blog.


KSA is not a fan club of MB but saying KSA can influence Egypt army and all these people in streets
that's just so bullshit
conspiracy theories have long life

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## kalu_miah

idune said:


> You can ask and pound all the sand but US has not found proof of who killed Kennedy yet. Hope you realize no one going to show you video /audio that house of saud have been supporting MB ouster in Egypt.



Like @Ceylal said in his post, KSA govt. is ok with it (out of concern for stability of Egypt) and most likely was not involved in ousting Morsi. Morsi was ousted mainly because of internal political dynamics, where the Army stepped in to preserve stability of the country, whereas Morsi's mistakes were pushing the country towards instability.

In my personal opinion, this coup was a mistake by the Army, but it is hard for us outsiders to know and judge. It is best if we ask more questions, listen and learn from people of surrounding countries who know much more than passing quick judgement.

Al Nour party (Salafi leaning) is a player that is loosely allied with MB and I am sure this party also has close relation with KSA. After yesterdays Army shooting and killing of pro-Morsi protesters, Al Nour withdrew support from the new road map by Al Sissi.


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## Yzd Khalifa

The number of people who protested aginst Morsi indicates one thing for sure, that it was a genuine uprising. 


Hussein said:


> KSA is not a fan club of MB but saying KSA can influence Egypt army and all these people in streets
> that's just so bullshit
> conspiracy theories have long life

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## babajees

Yzd Khalifa said:


> The number of people who protested aginst Morsi indicates one thing for sure, that it was a genuine uprising.



And the number of ppl protesting for MB? Only a blind will chose not to see it? And 100ss killed by the army!? 53 alone in fahar prayers?

Liber scumbags


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## idune

Hussein said:


> Islam is a religion. it is private . it is communauty. it is not a nation, it is not a politic to serve one group of person or give power to such group or sect.
> 
> and this has nothing to do with West . period.



Islam is not only a religion but also a way of life. Life where teaching on personal, social and even national issues has been given. As for term "political Islam" is western invention to label Islam in bad light. It is your choice if you want to fall for it or learn to make better understanding.


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## Yzd Khalifa

babajees said:


> And the number of ppl protesting for MB? Only a blind will chose not to see it? And 100ss killed by the army!? 53 alone in fahar prayers?
> 
> Liber scumbags



The anti-Morsi protests are greater than those who support him. I'm not going to get into a flaming war with someone like yourself.


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## Jihad_

Israel urged U.S. not to halt aid to Egypt, says top American official



> During intensive Washington-Jerusalem coordination talks, Israeli leadership warned U.S. officials military aid cut to Egypt would likely impact negatively on Israel&#8217;s security.
> 
> Israel urged U.S. not to halt aid to Egypt, says top American official - Diplomacy & Defense - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper



White House: no immediate cut in U.S. aid to Egypt



> U.S. law restricts providing aid in instances of a military coup and some in Congress, including Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona, already have called for halting the more than $1 billion a year currently given to Egypt.
> 
> However, Carney made clear that no hasty decision would be made.
> 
> "It would not be in the best interests of the United States to immediately change our assistance programs" to Egypt, he said.





> When asked multiple times if the Egyptian military's move was a coup, Carney stubbornly repeated a lengthy response that essentially said the United States would determine how to proceed at its own pace, based on what's best for its interests and the goal of promoting democratic governance in Egypt.
> 
> White House: no immediate cut in U.S. aid to Egypt - CNN.com


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## idune

kalu_miah said:


> Like @Ceylal said in his post, KSA govt. is ok with it (out of concern for stability of Egypt) and most likely was not involved in ousting Morsi. Morsi was ousted mainly because of internal political dynamics, where the Army stepped in to preserve stability of the country, whereas Morsi's mistakes were pushing the country towards instability.
> 
> In my personal opinion, this coup was a mistake by the Army, but it is hard for us outsiders to know and judge. It is best if we ask more questions, listen and learn from people of surrounding countries who know much more than passing quick judgement.
> 
> Al Nour party (Salafi leaning) is a player that is loosely allied with MB and I am sure this party also has close relation with KSA. After yesterdays Army shooting and killing of pro-Morsi protesters, Al Nour withdrew support from the new road map by Al Sissi.



There is no "quick judgement" on my part, unless you are just talking about yourself. house of Sauds are "ok" as you termed their involvement, is pure assassination of facts on the ground. House of Saud were with western masters to orchestrated unrest. There are many reports and a well known facts house of Saud is afraid of MB and had been instigating from behind the scene to unseat MB. Saudi interference in Egypt was not new; house of Saud was not able to forget their man, Mubarak demise. 



> *Gulf States Buy Egyptian Riots*
> 
> Washington has evidence that as much as a billion dollars has been clandestinely introduced into Egypt since the June presidential election. The money has gone to some organizers of the riots taking place, including junior Army officers in mufti, to force the regime to react with excessive force and lose what little legitimacy it retains&#8212;which is precisely what has happened. A fatally weakened Morsi government might well have to accept a new regime of national unity that would include the military, which would become the dominant force in the arrangement without having to risk the opprobrium involved in actually forming a government. The primary objective of the new alignment would be to restore order, further enhancing the military&#8217;s status. On January 29, the Egyptian Army&#8217;s commanding general, Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, not surprisingly suggested that the army might have to intervene if the civilian government proves incapable of suppressing the rioting.
> 
> So who is behind the unrest? The money fueling the confrontation comes from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, none of which are enamored of the Muslim Brotherhood or Morsi. They fear that the untidy democracy, such as it is, in Egypt and elsewhere amid the Arab Spring could spill over to their states, and they desire a return to something like the military-backed regime of Mubarak, which was politically reliable and dedicated to suppressing political extremism and even dissent in all forms. A government of national unity, backed by the army, that would give lip service to democratic institutions would be just fine.
> 
> Gulf States Buy Egyptian Riots | The American Conservative




Al Nour is a salafist party had no good relation with MB. In fact Al Nour created because they did not want to join MB. As salafist they have traditional link back to house of Saud and their credit line. Al Nour back tracking from supporting coup has two main reasons: 
1) ElBaradei's liberal and secular profile goes against their kind of principal. Besides, having ElBaradei may trigger another election soon which will result bringing MB back into power. 

2) overwhelming MB response against coup was not expected. Even behind the scene orchestrators are for saving their skin from crime of massacre and unknown fallout. And so is Al Nour switching tone quickly.


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## kalu_miah

idune said:


> There is no "quick judgement" on my part, unless you are just talking about yourself. house of Sauds are "ok" as you termed their involvement, is pure assassination of facts on the ground. House of Saud were with western masters to orchestrated unrest. There are many reports and a well known facts house of Saud is afraid of MB and had been instigating from behind the scene to unseat MB. Saudi interference in Egypt was not new; house of Saud was not able to forget their man, Mubarak demise.
> 
> Al Nour is a salafist party had no good relation with MB. In fact Al Nour created because they did not want to join MB. As salafist they have traditional link back to house of Saud and their credit line. Al Nour back tracking from supporting coup has two main reasons:
> 1) ElBaradei's liberal and secular profile goes against their kind of principal. Besides, having ElBaradei may trigger another election soon which will result bringing MB back into power.
> 
> 2) overwhelming MB response against coup was not expected. Even behind the scene orchestrators are for saving their skin from crime of massacre and unknown fallout. And so is Al Nour switching tone quickly.



Well, many people will claim many things, does not mean they are true. Even Ceylal, the Algerian who is fanatically anti-Arab and Gulf Monarchs, would not endorse your conspiracy theory.

At least you should agree with Ceylal whose support for butcher Assad and the Shia gang is equal to yours.

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## idune

kalu_miah said:


> Well, many people will claim many things, does not mean they are true. Even Ceylal, the Algerian who is fanatically anti-Arab and Gulf Monarchs, would not endorse your conspiracy theory.
> 
> At least you should agree with Ceylal whose support for butcher Assad and the Shia gang is equal to yours.



Oh don't say, only your "conspiracy theory" label get's it way over facts and reputable analysis. We have seen that many times already. Time to move on with topic than your isolated out of touch opinion.


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## kalu_miah

idune said:


> Oh don't say, only your "conspiracy theory" label get's it way over facts and reputable analysis. We have seen that many times already. Time to move on with topic than your isolated out of touch opinion.



Bangladesh is not a Shia country, so I suggest you move to Iran, if you are going to sing for the Mullah's of Iran.

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## idune

kalu_miah said:


> Bangladesh is not a Shia country, so I suggest you move to Iran, if you are going to sing for the Mullah's of Iran.



I see Muslims should live in unity and prosper be they are Sunni or Shia. Like you, I don't crave for Shia-Sunni divide and call for Shia's blood. You suggestion sounds more like Awami League asking anyone who oppose its misrule to go Pakistan. I thought your thinking and argument would be more mature but I was wrong. Enough said on offtopic...back to the Egypt

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## kalu_miah

It is funny that some brain dead people are calling for Shia Sunni unity after what the Iran Mullah's did in Iraq and now in Syria, killing hundreds of thousands of Sunni's. Now KSA support for Morsi toppling is a weak point for KSA, so Iran Mullah's get a chance to hit at KSA, and Shia supporters in our own country come out doing the same taking the cue. These people do not represent Bangladesh, a country with 50,000 shia among 150 million Sunni Muslims.

What is funny is that even Morsi and Muslim Brother hood in Egypt just a month ago came out firmly against Assad and his Iran Mullah supporters, breaking with his earlier overtures with Iran. Eventually they also saw the light. Shia's and their Taqiya are not to be trusted. Only the naive will get fooled after what happened in Iraq and Syria under sponsorship of Iran.

Shia's have their own sordid history in South Asia. Yahya Khan was a Qizilbash Shia for example, who killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims and Hindu's in 1971 war.

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## Kompromat

50 killed by the Egyptian military.


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## Argus Panoptes

Aeronaut said:


> 50 killed by the Egyptian military.




... and over 500 injured.

The dead include 5 women and 3 children.


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## Frogman

Argus Panoptes said:


> ... and over 500 injured.
> 
> The dead include 5 women and 3 children.




Ministry of health reported 51 deaths, all of them male.


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## Argus Panoptes

Frogman said:


> Ministry of health reported 51 deaths, all of them male.



The final toll is not yet in. The next few days will reveal the confirmed casualties.


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## Frogman

Argus Panoptes said:


> The final toll is not yet in. The next few days will reveal the confirmed casualties.



All fatalities from the field hospital were moved to state hospitals and then state morgues. Further fatalities may come from those seriously injured in the events who are now being treated in state hospitals and per the health ministry's report 51 are dead, all of them male debunking your and the MBs claims. The official FJP page on FB also posted a picture of children who had been murdered in Syria and not in Egypt, which either indicates treachery or stupidity (the water mark was still on the picture).


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## Yzd Khalifa

Frogman said:


> Ministry of health reported 51 deaths, all of them male.



Is that the toll of the recent confrontation between the MB supporters and the Republican Guard or the toll of the 2nd revolution?


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## Frogman

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Is that the toll of the recent confrontation between the MB supporters and the Republican Guard or the toll of the 2nd revolution?



The events in front of the Republican Guard Officers club (which is deemed a military base and therefore military personnel are allowed to use live fire to repel attackers as per Egyptian law).

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## Yzd Khalifa

Frogman said:


> The events in front of the Republican Guard Officers club (which is deemed a military base and therefore military personnel are allowed to use live fire to repel attackers as per Egyptian law).



Oh God, so that was the death toll of the armed confrontation : ( Sorry to hear that bro ..


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## Frogman

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Oh God, so that was the death toll of the armed confrontation : ( Sorry to hear that bro ..



Its a sad day for all Egyptians no matter what their political or ideological affiliation and proof that the MB has no remorse or guilt about what happened today and would gladly do it again to further their own political agenda even if that means the death of their own supporters, military personnel, protesters and ordinary Egyptians.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Frogman said:


> Its a sad day for all Egyptians no matter what their political or ideological affiliation and proof that the MB has no remorse or guilt about what happened today and would gladly do it again to further their own political agenda even if that means the death of their own supporters, military personnel, protesters and ordinary Egyptians.



Yes, I think tragic incidents like these had shown the true color of such people. The MB will pay a dare price for its reckless behavior toward Egyptians in general, and the military in particular. They should have compromised with other ideological political paries and groups to form a coalition Gov't from day 1. 

I don't think the MB will embrace dialogue over violence if you ask me, but maybe I'm wrong and I hope so. 

If I may ask, what do you think about KSA's stand in this conflict? Do you think that KSA should have done/do something to warm up the environment in Egypt?


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## Frogman

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Yes, I think tragic incidents like these had shown the true color of such people. The MB will pay a dare price for its reckless behavior toward Egyptians in general, and the military in particular. They should have compromised with other ideological political paries and groups to form a coalition Gov't from day 1.
> 
> I don't think the MB will embrace dialogue over violence if you ask me, but maybe I'm wrong and I hope so.
> 
> If I may ask, what do you think about KSA's stand in this conflict? Do you think that KSA should have done/do something to warm up the environment in Egypt?



The MB has already stated that there wont be any dialogue until Morsi is reinstated as President. They're basically holding Egypt to ransom, but, it wont work. 

As for KSA, I welcome the statement they released, however, no nation should get involved in Egypt's internal affairs.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Well, the MB can't reinstall Morsi again since the vast majority of Egyptians protested against him. It is highly unlikely that the MB will never win the hearts and minds of the Egyptian people, period. 


Frogman said:


> The MB has already stated that there wont be any dialogue until Morsi is reinstated as President. They're basically holding Egypt to ransom, but, it wont work.
> 
> As for KSA, I welcome the statement they released, however, no nation should get involved in Egypt's internal affairs.



Yes, I agree, Egypt sovereignty shall never be violated under any circumstances. Let's hope all best to the people in there, Egypt is extremely important, and I'm not comfortable seeing it that way, it's chaotic.

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## Frogman

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Well, the MB can't reinstall Morsi again since the vast majority of Egyptians protested against him. It is highly unlikely that the MB will never win the hearts and minds of the Egyptian people, period.
> 
> 
> Yes, I agree, Egypt sovereignty shall never be violated under any circumstances. Let's hope all best to the people in there, Egypt is extremely important, and I'm not comfortable seeing it that way, it's chaotic.



The fight isn't for Morsi but for the brotherhood itself. With Morsi reinstated (even as a ceremonial figure) the brotherhood wont be targeted or outlawed and they could remain in the politcal equation, however, if Morsi isn't reinstated (and they keep on resorting to violence) they will be targeted and if the Egyptian judiciary deem it necessary outlawed.

The chances of them getting what they want though are zip and so now they are advocating foreign (specifically American) intervention to return Morsi which also wont happen.


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## Yzd Khalifa

Well, some MB figures like Safwat Hijazi stated that their goal is to reinstall president Morsi which is meaningless if you ask me. Maybe he had forgotten how many people turned against them. The MB surely can co-exists with all political parties across the country, but if they must accept that fact that Morsi became a part of Egypt history, this is the will of the majority of the Egyptians. 

The MB must denounce violence and advocate for peaceful protests among their ranks and their supporters. 





Frogman said:


> The fight isn't for Morsi but for the brotherhood itself. With Morsi reinstated (even as a ceremonial figure) the brotherhood wont be targeted or outlawed and they could remain in the politcal equation, however, if Morsi isn't reinstated (and they keep on resorting to violence) they will be targeted and if the Egyptian judiciary deem it necessary outlawed.
> 
> The chances of them getting what they want though are zip and so now they are advocating foreign (specifically American) intervention to return Morsi which also wont happen.



Wether they advocated for a foreign assistance or whatever, Morsi is gone and all.

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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> Ministry of health reported 51 deaths, *all of them male*.


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## panyimao

Why Muslim countries have become the object of slaughter, why do not know anti-awake ah, Europe and the United States was not enough for you cheated.


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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


>



You think this is a matter in which jokes are appropriate?

If you can prove the health ministry wrong then present your evidence.

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## Umair Nawaz

Now Pakistan can say proudly that we r not the only ones.


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## Syrian Lion

*Egyptian Al-Jazeera Reporter Hagag Salama Resigns Live on Air: al-Jazeera Incites Civil War in Egypt
*

Hagag Salama, al-Jazeera correspondent in Egypt since 2003, has resigned live on air on Dream TV channel, stating that the lack of professionalism by al-Jazeera and its incitement for civil war among Egyptians are the main reasons why he decided to end his career with the Qatar-based network.







*Footage of Pro-Morsi Demonstrators Firing at the Egyptian Army
*

This collection of videos shows how some of the pro-Morsi demonstrators are using firearms against the Egyptian military. Of course, al-Jazeera is propagating a similar false narrative used in the Syrian crisis that the Egyptian military is shooting "innocent and peaceful demonstrators".

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## idune

@*Yzd Khalifa*

Do you like Saudi Arabia to have real functional democratic system?


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## Syrian Lion

*Alljazeera reporter got kicked out during Egypt's military spokesman conference...*


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## Syrian Lion

*Similar to F$A terrorists, a "Syrian" MB/F$A terrorist was caught in Egypt, confesses shooting protesters in return for 500 Egyptian pounds from the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood
*


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Juntas' president Mansur now is unable to do any thing..No one dare to accept his porposal to undertake duty since the fear of people and shame of m.coup.

The countries which involved in commiting m.coup and celebrated juntas after few hours now denying every roles that they undertook..

Most probably this shamefull m.coup will doom to fail and would be the last m. coup in ME history.. From now on, neither Monarchies nor other regime could dare to intervene in uprisings through army againist their people. 

*I say again after this juntas doomed to fail a new era will begin and a new golden page will be open in history of ME. After that no any monarchy, dictator or regime must rely on their army against people. *

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## idune

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> Juntas' president Mansur now is unable to do any thing..No one dare to accept his porposal to undertake duty since the fear of people and shame of m.coup.
> 
> The countries which involved in commiting m.coup and celebrated juntas after few hours now denying every roles that they undertook..
> 
> Most probably this shamefull m.coup will doom to fail and would be the last m. coup in ME history.. From now on, neither Monarchies nor other regime could dare to intervene in uprisings through army againist their people.
> 
> *I say again after this juntas doomed to fail a new era will begin and a new golden page will be open in history of ME. After that no any monarchy, dictator or regime must rely on their army against people. *



And to add to that let people decide their future and their own country and reject outside orchestration of so called uprising which has no grass root or majority support.

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## Hussein

idune said:


> And to add to that let people decide their future and their own country and reject outside orchestration of so called uprising which has no grass root or majority support.


it is not because you say it as a Foreigner that it is true 
you know people like you who have spoken instead of us in 2009 i knew many... some people cannot stop fantasm and believe they know the truth about a country they don't have minimum knowledge about

that's why it is always better to let Egyptians to give their knowledge here about the situation, bro.


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## Frogman

idune said:


> And to add to that let people decide their future and their own country and reject outside orchestration of so called uprising which has no grass root or majority support.



So 17+ million protestors around the country on June 30th and beyond plus 22 million petition signatures calling for presidential elections isn't majority support?



> Juntas' president Mansur now is unable to do any thing..No one dare to accept his porposal to undertake duty since the fear of people and shame of m.coup.



Yesterday he released a constitutional decree outlining the transitional phase (6-8 months) and its first step is to draft a constitutional assembly made up of constitutional experts, lawyers and judges in the next fifteen days. This move was welcomed by nearly all (politically informed) Egyptians, the only opposition remains in Rab3a Al3adawiya. 

Please read or research whats actually going on in the country before commenting.



> The countries which involved in commiting m.coup and celebrated juntas after few hours now denying every roles that they undertook..



This is an Egyptian uprising, nothing more. No foreign power could muster that much popular support.



> Most probably this shamefull m.coup will doom to fail and would be the last m. coup in ME history.. From now on, neither Monarchies nor other regime could dare to intervene in uprisings through army againist their people.



A greater emphasis on analysis rather than empty statements would probably make people on this thread take you more seriously (the informed ones that is, not trying to be obnoxious or rude just telling the truth. If Im coming across that way then I apologise in advance)



> I say again after this juntas doomed to fail a new era will begin and a new golden page will be open in history of ME. After that no any monarchy, dictator or regime must rely on their army against people.



The military acted as a response to the people. There were mass protests before the military got involved. In addition to that Morsis regime had already fallen before military intervention simply due to the number of ministerial resignations and civil servants kicking others out, while governates kicked out their governors,

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## hussain0216

Rubbish, where are you getting these numbers from, 17 million, 22 million, next you will be saying 100 million egyptians protested when the population is only 80 million.

Its ridiculous, where were all these idiots during the elections..

Its a democracy, the elected official got a mandate and you think mob protests can bring down a democratic government.

Especially mob protests that dont have official counts or monitors, these alleged 22 million signatures the liberal slime collected, how were they monitored, how were the results collated, were there any official observers no of course not, but you think collecting a few signatures gives you permission to over thrown an elected government.

Wait for the elections idiots, that way the opposition will then accept the results if they give you power


The muslim brotherhood is correct in not taking part in these elections, that would just give them legitimacy. This false and fake process should be opposed by all Muslims & the muslims brotherhood should resist and keep protesting with a massive protests every few months


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## Jihad_

Frogman said:


> So 17+ million protestors around the country on June 30th and beyond plus 22 million petition signatures calling for presidential elections isn't majority support?



Offcourse not. The population consist of 80+ million people... So U only got 25% support...


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## Hussein

Jihad_ said:


> Offcourse not. The population consist of 80+ million people... So U only got 25% support...


it is not a vote, it is a petition
22 million is huge compared to the population

A petition to international media - Daily News Egypt


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## Frogman

> Rubbish, where are you getting these numbers from, 17 million, 22 million, next you will be saying 100 million egyptians protested when the population is only 80 million.



The numbers were estimated by Egyptian reconnaissance planes and satellites as part of the armed forces evaluation of the situation. The lowest estimate provided was 17 million, the highest figure was suggested (by someone I'm not really sure who) to be around 33 million. Even if you disregard these numbers or say they are an over exaggeration its still clear that the anti-Morsi supporters vastly outnumbered those in favour of his regime.

Again teezak hamra and this was just in Cairo.







> Its ridiculous, where were all these idiots during the elections..


 A lot voted for Morsi and Shafiq while others boycotted the elections or didn't participate at all. This wasnt just a protest held by those who opposed Morsi but those who had been sympathetic to the MB and those who had no political affiliations (you know the normal poor Egyptian people) and that's why these protests were so big (several times the size of those against Mubarak).



> Its a democracy, the elected official got a mandate and you think mob protests can bring down a democratic government.


 
The democratically elected official overstepped (breached) his mandate and broke every electoral promise (manifesto ditched, also undemocratic) while overseeing major political failures (some that may have dragged Egypt into unneeded wars) and ultimately lead to mass protests which ended this elected leaders legitimacy. Democracy is a process not an event that happens every now and then. 

As the representative house of parliament was dissolved because of electoral malpractice the Egyptian people had no other medium from which their views can be heard nor could they influence policy or debate and so used their constitutional, legal and democratic right to protest in the only place in which their voices can be heard, the *street*.

If the flags you display on your page are true then the British educational system has failed you and failed the nation. Read up on democratic principles or if you haven't reached A levels yet I suggest you take up Government and Politics as one of your subjects.



> Especially mob protests that dont have official counts or monitors, these alleged 22 million signatures the liberal slime collected, how were they monitored, how were the results collated, were there any official observers no of course not, but you think collecting a few signatures gives you permission to over thrown an elected government.



Those who signed the petition also had to provide their national ID card number (those who were illiterate used their fingerprint or signature stamp) and photographs were taken of both them and the Tamarod petition with the ID card as such......







There werent any official observers because this movement started (and still is) from the grass roots up. Its founders (most of which don't exceed the age of 30) predicted they would gain around 2+ million signatures only, however, the movement snowballed and even reached the UK's and other countries shores.








> Wait for the elections idiots, that way the opposition will then accept the results if they give you power


 Maybe if you kept slander and insults at a minimum (respectable and informed) people would actually take your views seriously, however, the mannerisms you are using indicate that you are a repugnant human being.



> The muslim brotherhood is correct in not taking part in these elections, that would just give them legitimacy. This false and fake process should be opposed by all Muslims & the muslims brotherhood should resist and keep protesting with a massive protests every few months



Tager bel deen we beh hayat elinsan maho mish inta walla elmorshid bet3ak il haymoto. Hasbi allah weni3ma alwakil and Im not even Muslim.



> Offcourse not. The population consist of 80+ million people... So U only got 25% support...



There are nations which have populations in the billions and still they have never raised numbers any where near what Egypt has. Mobilizing 17+ million people is nigh on impossible, just ask any political activist.


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## Jihad_

Hussein said:


> it is not a vote, it is a petition
> 22 million is huge compared to the population
> 
> A petition to international media - Daily News Egypt



Yeah, but still, 75% seems to think otherwise.


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## Hussein

Jihad_ said:


> Yeah, but still, *75% seems* to think otherwise.



how can you say that ? how you know what think 75% who didn't sign it ?
(75% already being over exagerated : if 22 million over 80 => 72%
if you take into consideration all people who are kids or too old, then you add all people in zones they didn't access petition , well you get much smaller % of people you don'"t know if they are ok with petition or not ok)


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## Frogman

Hussein said:


> how can you say that ? how you know what think 75% who didn't sign it ?
> (even if it is less than 75% and if you include kids not signing or too old people, well your number 75% is over exagerated



Add those without national ID cards and those home ridden or hospital caged plus those in prison or those who arent of age yet (A significant portion of Egypt is under 16, proof is its raging population increase) plus those abroad or who live in isolated parts of the country etc. etc. etc.

Some people just like to think in black and white and seem to forget we live in a world full of ambiguity and nuance.

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## Developereo

The fantasy about 17 million and 22 million is laughable.

The anti-democracy, Western puppets are dominant on the internet and media. Their claims are a joke and a smokescreen for the military coup.

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## hussain0216

So the numbers were *estimated* by the egyptian military do you have any independent verification like say election monitors or EU observers. 

The same for the petition, who counted them, who collected them, how do you know people were not making up numbers and signatures. What independent verification do you have for these alleged 22 million signatures *and how does that beat an official election, an official ballot, with observers from around the world*


In democracy you get a chance to vote, if you DONT vote thats your problem, you dont get to ***** and whine afterwards. Your next chance to express your will is at the next election. Not mob protests to bring down a democracy


Politicians break electoral promises its how it works you then punish them by not voting for them, not go bat **** crazy calling for regime change. Simply because you cheat the people who voted for them. Then the opposition has no reason to either respect YOU or your choice or your fake democracy and your new fake president. Why should the opposition respect these people when the same respect wasent given to their choice.

I studied international relations and politics for my degree and masters, Morsi's first year in politics was marred by constant demonstrations, a judiciary full of mubarak era clowns trying to be as obstructive as possible, a military full of mubarak era clowns waiting to pounce

A Elite and media full of mubarak era clowns acting with immense bias. They had no intention of letting the man lead or complete his term.


As soon as protests get under way the miliatry pounced, warrants for the Muslim brotherhood leaders already printed.

The brotherhood headquaters under siege and attack for hours with no police or military protection

TV stations shut down

*This crap dosent happen without planning* 


This is all pathetic, as you say your not a muslim, probably a copt so of course your going to screw over the egyptian population


You have bought down democracy and it is imperitive for the sake of muslim democracies across the world that the Muslim brotherhood fights for their rights' their deposed legitimate leader and for Egypt.

65 years egyptians put up with secular dictators, and the scums didnt even give Mursi one year if peace to try to fix decades of theft and mismanagement

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## Hussein

hussain0216 said:


> This is all pathetic, as you say your not a muslim, probably a copt so of course your going to screw over the egyptian population


1/ who is copt ? frogman?
2/ why you say this? copt are bad persons ? why you blame people being copt?

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## MooshMoosh

Hussein said:


> 1/ who is copt ? frogman?
> 2/ why you say this? copt are bad persons ? why you blame people being copt?


Coptic Egyptians strongly opposed the Islamist government and they are preferrable to military rule as Coptic Pope Tawadrosa already stated he supported military rule meaning Coptic Egyptians follows him. The Health ministers who counts the death and injury tolls this week cannot be trusted because they also support military rule meaning they either get paid by secular govts or the army to spread bs in the media. The pro supporters claimed the army had killed hundreds and injured thousand, not only men (mostly) but children as well while the army claimed "terrorist" started this and added less to what Pro's claimed. According to what I have seen on the net is the army shooting unnarmed civilians who wanted just simply protest against the coup and not to mention the anti protesters were violent which they were carrying tools, breaking pro cars and beating pros but the media never showed what they do like I said, they focus on one side which is the anti except Aljazeera who showed decent coverage on "both side". I am against military rule, since the overthrow of King Farouk, they suffered under the brutality of Abdel Nasser and Mubarak. Anwar Sadat was better than those two sc*ms.

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Developereo said:


> The fantasy about 17 million and 22 million is laughable.
> 
> The anti-democracy, Western puppets are dominant on the internet and media. Their claims are a joke and a smokescreen for the military coup.


Mate, the numbers of million is may be correct. But last year they werent absent in Egypt. after date of election they should have born. 
The smiliar plot commited against AKP government. They started 100 thousands rallies with the massive West media support. But within 1 month they successively deminished to 10 thousands later to thousands now they continue to protests with 200-400 persons.

That military coup is doomed. Next election there will be a stronger MB. 
The only single reason why MB has no ally from outside is the patriotic structure of MB. No one can buy them. They are real Egeyptian. No west or iran and KSA could buy and set them as per to their interest. That is why all these countries together cheering the topple of MB. 
Every country is striving to bring his puppet in power in Egypt.

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## Frogman

> So the numbers were estimated by the egyptian military do you have any independent verification like say election monitors or EU observers.



I would ask you the same thing if is wished to be difficult, do you have any evidence to contradict these claims?

Another thing, why would EU observers or monitors be invited to oversee a protest? and who exactly would invite them (at a time when most foreign ministries are advising their citizens to leave the country).

Plus, monitors or observers are only used to oversee state sanctioned events such as elections or referendums and not protests. What would their job entail exactly and how would they be able to estimate the numbers on the ground without reconnaissance vehicles or satellites.

The evaluation of the situation was carried out by the armed forces for the *presidency* before the ultimatum was set and the results were presented to the presidency in order to show how widespread the protests were and that there was urgent need for national reconciliation, as always the presidency rejected and sealed its own fate.



> The same for the petition, who counted them, who collected them, how do you know people were not making up numbers and signatures. What independent verification do you have for these alleged 22 million signatures and how does that beat an official election, an official ballot, with observers from around the world



In what world do monitors or observers oversee the signing of petitions?

Was the petition against here in the UK overseen by observers and monitors?

The answer is we simply don't know, however, the people who carried out this petition are innocent until proven guilty, if you have evidence of malpractice or fabrication then provide it if not then your accusations are meaningless as per any respectable judicial system. 

This petition wasn't supposed to beat anything. Petitions are not legally binding and can be ignored by governments no matter how many signatures they collected. Petitions are simply a tool used to apply pressure on governments or institutions on a certain issue, nothing more. A petition on its own cant topple a regime.



> In democracy you get a chance to vote, if you DONT vote thats your problem, you dont get to ***** and whine afterwards. Your next chance to express your will is at the next election. Not mob protests to bring down a democracy



Democracy is a continuous process not just a ballot in a plastic box.

As for not being *allowed* to complain then you have completely misunderstood representative democracy. When an MP or president is elected it is their job to govern or lobby for the interests of their citizens or constituents no matter if they voted for them, against them or not at all because they represent their borough in the houses of parliamentary system or the nation in a presidential system.



> Politicians break electoral promises its how it works you then punish them by not voting for them, not go bat **** crazy calling for regime change.



Breaking electoral promises is one thing but exceeding the mandate given to you by the people and endangering the nations national security while consolidating power in an increasingly authoritative manner (among other things) is an entirely different matter.

So if someone breaks the oath they swore to protect the nations security, breached the mandate given to them by the people and imprisoned political activists and journalists you would happily spend another 3 or 4 years for a vote that will be rigged in the ruling regimes favour as they would control all of the countries major institutions and rig electoral laws to favour themselves?



> Simply because you cheat the people who voted for them. Then the opposition has no reason to either respect YOU or your choice or your fake democracy and your new fake president. Why should the opposition respect these people when the same respect wasent given to their choice.



Spare me the sweat and typing. The MB had no intentions of setting up a democratic process in Egypt nor did they respect the very constitution they supported nor did they respect common law, however, now that they have been removed from power they are suddenly champions of democracy and constitutional rights.



> I studied international relations and politics for my degree and masters


 Well it was clearly at a rag tag establishment with no entry standards as you seem incapable of providing an evaluative or synoptic statement and struggle with simple democratic principles. Plus the standard of writing and the mannerisms you use are no where near the level of someone with a masters let alone a C grade in A level Government and Politics.



> Morsi's first year in politics was marred by constant demonstrations, a judiciary full of mubarak era clowns trying to be as obstructive as possible, a military full of mubarak era clowns waiting to pounce



Obstructive as possible for a reason. If a president issues a constitutional decree in which he gives himself unlimited (legislative or otherwise) power in order to stop the constitutional assembly being dissolved (after being found illegitimate by the constitutional court as a result of parties and religious officials pulling out in protest at how the assembly was being run) and pushing through an illegitimate constitution to referendum then its the judiciary's right to be obstructive as possible.

As for Mubarak era clowns then the chief prosecutor (an integral part of Egypt's judicial system) who was replaced by Morsi using constitutional powers he granted himself who was reinstated by the judiciary would have advocated for the return of Mubarak or something that would favour the old guard however he resigned on the day he was reinstated. 



> A Elite and media full of mubarak era clowns acting with immense bias. They had no intention of letting the man lead or complete his term.



If your regime is threatened by questions or jokes even if biased and against you then your regime never had a chance in the first place.



> As soon as protests get under way the miliatry pounced, warrants for the Muslim brotherhood leaders already printed.


 Protests had started a week in advance (before the 30th). The military had also called for reconciliation talks for the past six months and a week before the ultimatum, the presidency refused. This coup wasn't a surprise and the military certainly wasn't the primary player in the equation.



> The brotherhood headquaters under siege and attack for hours with no police or military protection



Mate, you just described the country's predicament over the past two years for every Egyptian. 



> TV stations shut down



And some left open such as Aljazeera. You obviously haven't watched some of these channels. Most started a media campaign of takfir and slander in addition to inciting hatred and violence upon others. Im all for free speach and being objective, however, when someone incites hatred or violence they must not be tolerated.



> This crap dosent happen without planning


 Of course it doesn't and everyone saw what was happening except for one governing party. Everything was over that table and had been for months.



> This is all pathetic, as you say your not a muslim, probably a copt so of course your going to screw over the egyptian population



You see the inciting hatred or violence bit I was talking about yeeeaahh youre doing it.

Just so you know I'm agnostic and I love every inch of Egyptian sand and dust more than you love your god and its national prosperity comes before my life or the life of my family.



> 65 years egyptians put up with secular dictators, and the scums didnt even give Mursi one year if peace to try to fix decades of theft and mismanagement



Because he decided to fix it with further mismanagement.

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## hussain0216

Im unable to respond right now, but

Observers during elections are important in order for a fair and free process, as a result petitions with random numbers being thrown around of 17 million are worthless and do not trump democratic elections & a democratic mandate. This is why it is annoying when shills like yourself keep claiming to act on behalf of the egyptian people when opinion is so divided and no free or fair monitored process has taken place to determine the will of the egyptian people APART FROM THE ELECTION which bought the MB to power.

Everything you and the liberal tamrod slime keep saying is opinion, 

You state "The MB had no intentions of setting up a democratic process in Egypt", how do you know this, did you even give them a chance other then the 11 months they had.

This is all opinion, you believe they were trying to controle, but others dont. There are millions of people in egypt who hold and alterntive view so why should your desire for a military led coup and removal of the regime be upheld when millions of others who voted for the MB and the president be ignored


In a democratic system the process of electing and removing a president and government is through the ballot box not the idiot mob.
With everybody respecting the system, the election and the results, thus ifthe liberal slime party came to power in the next election all MB supporters MUST adhere to the results of the elections and respect the results and new government, but when their choice of person is in power the same respect must be given to him/them.

You muppets did nothing, you were so self serving in your actions that you overthrew a democratically elected president because your little group didnt like him.


It is now of utmost important that the muslims of egypt fight this tooth and nail

Oh by the way, 

President Zardari of Pakistan was an utter idiot and ruinous for the nation and state, he did nothing but mismanage the country for 5 years, but we did not overthrow the muppet, he was worse then Morsi.

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## Yzd Khalifa

idune said:


> @*Yzd Khalifa*
> 
> Do you like Saudi Arabia to have real functional democratic system?



Not really. Honestly. I side with my people and I support them unconditionally.

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## idune

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Not really. Honestly. I side with my people and I support them unconditionally.



Majority Saudis would perfer to have elected govt over monarchy. Who are your people then? And if you dont want democracy your point of view on Egyptian discourse is baised by undemcratic and dictatorial method. And that is the problem as these secular/liberals has no broad base support to win election and form govt only way they can get to power is unrest and with gunpower.


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## Yzd Khalifa

Are you trying to argue with me about what my people want and don't? 



idune said:


> *Majority Saudis would perfer to have elected govt over monarchy*. Who are your people then? And if you dont want democracy your point of view on Egyptian discourse is baised by undemcratic and dictatorial method. And that is the problem as these secular/liberals has no broad base support to win election and form govt only way they can get to power is unrest and with gunpower.



We've got a different stand about Egypt though.


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## flamer84

Hussein said:


> 1/ who is copt ? frogman?
> 2/ why you say this? copt are bad persons ? why you blame people being copt?



Because crazy mullahs like him living in the 10th century still view people based on religion beliefs not as human beeings living together in a country,continent,etc.Copts beeing christians are automatically the enemy,these people are the equivalent of the christian nutjobs who went on a killing rampage during the crusades,ofcourse all "in the name of God and true religion".

No point in telling these trolls that we live in 2013 right now,their mind is a waste land polluted with corrupt religious fervor.

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## idune

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Are you trying to argue with me about what my people want and don't?
> We've got a different stand about Egypt though.



Its always good to know the propective from which you are making arguments. As far as Saudis, you have your understandng as local, I have mine from reading and talking to different people from Saudi Arab. Majority of Saudis I have met in University and at Mosque or in professional capacity are in opinion that Saudi Arab needs to get rid of monarchy and introduce democratic process. Also democracy does not mean exactly western style govt. That may not come ovenight but building institutions could be starting point. Challenge is house of Saud who are making wholesale looting of Saudi wealth would never let that happen.

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## Yzd Khalifa

idune said:


> Its always good to know the propective from which you are making arguments. As far as Saudis, you have your understandng as local, I have mine from reading and talking to different people from Saudi Arab. Majority of Saudis I have met in University and at Mosque or in professional capacity are in opinion that Saudi Arab needs to get rid of monarchy and introduce democratic process. Also democracy does not mean exactly western style govt. That may not come ovenight but building institutions could be starting point. Challenge is house of Saud who are making wholesale looting of Saudi wealth would never let that happen.



Well, if that's your perception, then be it.


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## Solomon2

Written by : Ali Ibrahim
on : Tuesday, 9 Jul, 2013

Opinion: Egypts déjà vu

The world-famous French expression déjà vuwhich is also the title of a famous filmmeans thinking that a new incident or life experience had occurred before. This expression may be somehow applied to the current events in Egypt, particularly the new revolution of June 30. The difference is that the revolution is not a quirk of the human brain, as scientists and psychologists define déjà vu. In fact, what happened in Egypt is an everyday reality.

Almost the same scenes of the January 25, 2011, revolution against the former president have been repeated on June 30, 2013, against the deposed President Mursi. Even the slogans used are very similar. In fact, what happened is like a film whose scenario went out of control or did not meet the hopes of the director who accordingly stopped filming and reconstructed the scenario. The difference between the film that the world-famous Denzel Washington starred in and the situation in Egypt is that the director rewriting the scenario is the angry protesters who occupied the streets and the squares of Egypt, attracting the attention of political movements and regional and international players.

Similar to what happened on January 25 and the first transitional period that followed, the June 30 revolution has been caused a regional and international reaction. Unable to ignore the role of international powers, local players in Egypt try to woo, or at least neutralize, them. However, the difference now is that attitudes have changed. Regional players that had supported January 25 revolution expressed their opposition to June 30 on the pretext of the legitimacy of change by the ballot box. The side that managed to topple the president justify themselves that those who took to the streets in the millions represent the same legitimacy that everyone accepted and acknowledged when it toppled the former president. They wonder why they oppose the toppling of Mursi in the same way. They also insist that in both cases this legitimacy demanded the support of the military, a thing which happened in both cases.

Many believe that the reason why a second revolution has happened, leading to the ouster of a supposedly freely elected president on his first anniversary in office, is due to the mistakes committed during the first transitional period, creating ever-deepening divisions throughout the last two and a half years.* It all started when elections were held before a constitution was drafted to serve as a middle ground that everybody accepts. Instead, this led to a parliament which was dissolved and a president who, because he did not have specific powers, issued constitutional declarations to award himself almost absolute powers.* This is not to mention the constant clashes between the presidency and the judiciary, as well as the rapidly collapsing economy and the government whose strategic interests are threatened by domestic weakness.

Why did that happen? History will answer that question. However, the state of perplexity everybody felt following the fall of Mubarak in 2011 and the absence of political leaders who can instruct and negotiate on behalf of youth movements and the protesters led a political trend which is not favored by the public to take control.

Now there is no way these mistakes can be repeated. Moreover, given the opportunity to correct the revolution, the one to run Egypt during the transition period should strike a balance between wisdom and firmness in order to avoid the scenarios of chaos or civil war that the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, has mentioned. The bloody confrontations that took place yesterday and the day before, as well as the violent footage being circulated on social networking websites, please no one and presage danger.

The regional and international scene is split between those who describe what happened as a coup détat and the ones who prefer to wait, particularly after seeing the massive protests. This division and state of polarization point to the confusion over June 30 to the extent that friends have become enemies. In fact, Egypt is going through the most difficult time throughout its modern history, and the future of Egypt hinges on how the transitional period will be managed to enable the country escape the danger.


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## Yzd Khalifa

@Frogman @MooshMoosh @Mahmoud_EGY 

Saudi aid package $5 billion to Egypt

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## idune

*Turkish Deputy PM condemns military coup in Egypt *

9 July 2013

Turkish Deputy PM Arinc said Turkey strongly condemns military coup in Egypt that removed the country's elected president from office

ANKARA (AA) - Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Arinc said has Turkey strongly condemned "the mentally that topples the legitimate government and the president, fires on its own people and hands over the authority to someone else in Egypt." 
Speaking at a press conference after a cabinet meeting Monday Arinc said Turkey would maintain its "principled and ethical manners" towards the incidents in Egypt. 

"It is out of question to impose sanctions on the government which thinks that they have taken over the power," Arinc said. 

Referring to the "historic and rooted relations" between the two countries Arinc said, "maintaining solidarity with Egyptian people, elected President Mohamed Morsi and the government is what we are trying to do."

Arinc said 8 million Egyptians participating in mass protests were against the military coup, adding that the number of people who welcomed the coup ha also decreased. 

Full Report:
Turkish Deputy PM condemns military coup in Egypt, 9 July 2013

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Juntas supported members of Baltaji gang use removaable false beards to infiltrate into MB supporters to kill them or fire at soldiers on the behalf of MBs
Takma sakall



Juntas' men disributing money to chiefs of Baltaji gang to atack or kill MB supporters..
M

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## Hussein

they give money to kids and for you it is a proof of something like giving mo,ney to gang?

man you should stop your propaganda MB one second ... you're sick

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## Jihad_

Democracy:



> Egypt arrests 650 of pro-Morsi protesters (AP)


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## Developereo

Hussein said:


> 1/ who is copt ? frogman?
> 2/ why you say this? copt are bad persons ? why you blame people being copt?



Can you imagine if a Muslim minority were protesting democratic election results?

The global media coverage would be about evil Muslims-this and Islamists-that.

You would be hard pressed to find a single news report that didn't mention the protesters' religion.

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## Developereo

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> Every country is striving to bring his puppet in power in Egypt.



I am sure there are many patriotic Egyptians who oppose MB and Morsi for legitimate reasons. That's fine and, in a democracy, you always have difference of opinion. Most elections are close and the losing side is always angry. However, these Egyptians are being used by special interest groups who want to install their puppet, as you mentioned.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Hussein said:


> they give money to kids and for you it is a proof of something like giving mo,ney to gang?
> 
> man you should stop your propaganda MB one second ... you're sick



 You can't install a democracy in one day or two. It takes ages to get the core values of it.

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## Gold1010

CNN Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com


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## MooshMoosh

Egypt is boosting economics thru international suppport, Saudi Arabia top most pay since the coup. 

Anyway, a soldier in an unimaginable battlefield


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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> Egypt is boosting economics thru international suppport, Saudi Arabia top most pay since the coup.
> 
> Anyway, a soldier in an unimaginable battlefield



Old footage from Al3abasiya and not from the Republicans Guards officers club events. The video also doesn't show what hes shooting at. If he was trying to kill as many people as possible he would be firing in semi auto or full auto.


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## MooshMoosh

@Jamaal Yelmaaz

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## MooshMoosh

Gamaal Abdel Nasser was the responsible of assasinating the Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al Banna and executed Brotherhood politician el Qutub who gained power secretly in Egypt. Nasser was also the responsible of placing hundreds of Brotherhood founders in the prison and Morsi was overthrown. Oh, King Faisal of Saud largely supported the Muslim Brotherhood during Nasser's rule. I don't understand, if they are confident that the MB is not going to win elections then why detained and placed them in prison all the time since Nasser's rule until Mubarak was toppled? What are they really fearing? In order to be confident about then you'll need someone to challenge you without being detained or end up in prison. People must realise this but the sad part is they cannot accept defeat, even through ballot.

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## BlueWarrior

changes of amends


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

MooshMoosh said:


> @Jamaal Yelmaaz



I hope there will be an quickly comprimising nd concensus btwn MB and Foreigners incited, fooled all other groups on the only national interest of Egypt. So it is obliged to release Mursi and allow him back to his duty and later take decision of early election. 

Egyptians currently may be poor but they are a great nation and i bleive they have a great wise as well. 
No any puppet gov. managed to provide unity and peace in their country by now. They only could serve for their masters that distribute money very plenty. 

Puppets and their masters should consider very well millions of people flew into streets and protest day and night despite of shortage of water, food and being attacked fiercly for days.




Hussein said:


> they give money to kids and for you it is a proof of something like giving mo,ney to gang?
> 
> man you should stop your propaganda MB one second ... you're sick


 
If you claim so certainly then i must ask you to know, Then why these weird men covertly distributed bunchs of money to children ? For what?

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## Hussein

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> If you claim so certainly then i must ask you to know, Then why these weird men covertly distributed bunchs of money to children ? For what?


well i can see that in Iran and i guess it happens in many countries
you can pay kids for many services, especially the famous one of distribution of ads or newspapers 
in Iran they are many services in streets that kids are paid for , or even in bazaar
my father was selling for exemple candles when he was 14yo
you don't have kids doing this in Turkey?


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## BlueWarrior

Developereo said:


> Can you imagine if a Muslim minority were protesting democratic election results?
> 
> The global media coverage would be about evil Muslims-this and Islamists-that.
> 
> You would be hard pressed to find a single news report that didn't mention the protesters' religion.



Hey man, this is a poor point of view of yours but I have summarize it all after doing research, I'll share my opinion to see your thoughts.

A quite great tactics from the Gulf countries. Their goal was to make Egypt's economics go downward to destroy the MB's reputation toward the Egyptian people so they can be overthrown. I think the Western nations did the same thing. We all saw they were all cheering up for the military takeover and now they had received enormous $8 billion funds as a gift from the Gulf countries. The Egyptian army gets along with the American government because they receive billion dollars in funds and military packages each year so I wouldn't advice you to trust to them as you know they listen to them more than their own people. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/10/w...-qatar-for-influence.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I highly doubt it was 22 million attending the rally last week because the rebel campaign was formed by some youth supported by the liberals, the others and might as well as for the army because they did not stop the campaign or said a word about it months ago, did they? Sorry, this doesn't make any sense because without international observers or others is absolutely rubbish even the campaign enrollments was inpected by the anti Morsi groups. It's impossible and it is clear the Western countries and Gulf is an anti MB by proving their excited reaction last week. Even though, the economics was on decline after Morsi was elected but he stood still for five months (July to December) until the votes for the consititional amends on December, he still got more votes. I did research from reading interesting opinions from Western bloggers and journalist on the internet.


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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> Gamaal Abdel Nasser was the responsible of assasinating the Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al Banna and executed Brotherhood politician el Qutub who gained power secretly in Egypt. Nasser was also the responsible of placing hundreds of Brotherhood founders in the prison and Morsi was overthrown. Oh, King Faisal of Saud largely supported the Muslim Brotherhood during Nasser's rule. I don't understand, if they are confident that the MB is not going to win elections then why detained and placed them in prison all the time since Nasser's rule until Mubarak was toppled? What are they really fearing? In order to be confident about then you'll need someone to challenge you without being detained or end up in prison. People must realise this but the sad part is they cannot accept defeat, even through ballot.




Sooo you're just going to forget decades of violence and terrorism plus the assassination of a populist president?

Ok.....

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## Hussein

Hasan El - Benna , he was not the one who was the collaborator of Hitler and nazism in the region ?


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## Jihad_

Analysis of Sidi Gaber video suggests serious media complicity in propagating staged incident








> An official in the security directorate of Alexandria confirmed that the person who was arrested yesterday, Sunday, for throwing two young boys from the roof of an apartment block in Sidi Jaber during disturbances on Friday is a member of an extremist 'Takfiri' group and not a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, or a Salafist.



Ministry of Interior: men accused of throwing children from a building are not from the Muslim Brotherhood


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## Hussein

well the source is very much pro Morsi. wait for confirmation from neutral source . but thx anyway.


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## Frogman

> Observers during elections are important in order for a fair and free process, as a result petitions with random numbers being thrown around of 17 million are worthless and do not trump democratic elections & a democratic mandate.



Well done you described what observers do, have a nice big chocolate chipped cookie. However, no one said that a petition (with double the number of votes Morsi got) trumps democratic elections. Again, Morsi breached the mandate given to him by the people and lost his legitimacy, the numbers themselves are of little relevance.



> This is why it is annoying when shills like yourself keep claiming to act on behalf of the egyptian people when opinion is so divided and no free or fair monitored process has taken place to determine the will of the egyptian people APART FROM THE ELECTION which bought the MB to power.



DISCLAIMER

I act on the behalf of myself and the views I put forward are mine and do not represent the views of all Egyptians.

What you don't want to understand or cant understand is that Morsi overstepped his mandate and became increasingly authoritarian and so (in any true democratic system) he had to go because the social contract signed with the Egyptian people was no longer valid. Again, the numbers are of little relevance when what you seek is a democratic process rather than a event.



> You state "The MB had no intentions of setting up a democratic process in Egypt", how do you know this, did you even give them a chance other then the 11 months they had.



Ok,

1) releasing a constitutional decree granting Morsi unlimited legislative powers in order to protect the constitutional assembly from the constitutional courts verdict (to dissolve it) so they could push through an illegitimate constitution to referendum. 

2) Using the same constitutional decree to remove the chief prosecutor and replace him with another. The chief prosecutor can only be appointed and removed by judicial order and so the president intervened in judicial matters. Independent judiciary system threatened. 

3) After the constitution passed the referendum he refused amendments to problem clauses, some of which prevented earlier parliamentary elections. He also refused reconciliation talks with the opposition. 

4) Widespread arrests of opposition activists and the largest amount (more than Mubarak in fact) of judicial complaints against media personalities for insulting the president and Im sure youre aware of Bassem Yusufs case.

5) Removing governors and replacing them with FJP and affiliate figures all of whom were rejected by the people of the governates and never saw office.

Yeah sounds like the foundation of a real democratic process in Egypt. Talking of chances would you kindly name me one economic or social reform in Morsis first year (just one)?



> This is all opinion, you believe they were trying to controle, but others dont.



They controlled all of Egypt's major ministries except the ministry of defence and were the majority in the (unelected) shura council plus they tried to install 12 governors, all of this in their first year.......

If others don't then why did the Morsi regime fall before the military coup? Why didn't the governors see their offices? Why did civil servants and journalists kick out their FJP ministers and chief editors?



> There are millions of people in egypt who hold and alterntive view so why should your desire for a military led coup and removal of the regime be upheld when millions of others who voted for the MB and the president be ignored



Where are these people?

Rab3a al3adawiya in which MB supporters from all over the country were bused in can only hold under half a million people. Again, the numbers generated are irrelevant. In a democratic nation if an elected leader breaches the mandate given to them they must be removed, no matter how much public support they have.

Beep Beep







> In a democratic system the process of electing and removing a president and government is through the ballot box not the idiot mob.



Mass protests are a result of legitimate grievances and must be taken seriously. The MB didn't and they got pitched. The ballot box is *not* the only way to remove a president in advanced democratic nations.



> With everybody respecting the system, the election and the results, thus ifthe liberal slime party came to power in the next election all MB supporters MUST adhere to the results of the elections and respect the results and new government, but when their choice of person is in power the same respect must be given to him/them.



If a MB president (of any for that matter) is elected (nigh on impossible) after the transitional phase then there must be a constitution with adequate checks and balances on governmental/presidential powers and so if a president breaches his given powers there will be grave repercussions.



> You muppets did nothing, you were so self serving in your actions that you overthrew a democratically elected president because your little group didnt like him.



If you actually followed the events in Egypt you would know that those who protested against the regime weren't just the opposition and their sympathizers but those who were once sympathetic (and voted for Morsi) to MB and were alienated by their agenda and politcal mismanagement in addition to the ordinary poor or middle class Egyptian who didnt have any politcal affiliations but saw that the MB and its affiiliates were destroying the nation for an agenda the majority of Egyptians weren't in favour of, without all these people Morsi would not have been toppled. The opposition have been holding protests for the past two years and their demands weren't listened to by the army nor the government as they simply didn't have as much public support as they did on June 30th.



> It is now of utmost important that the muslims of egypt fight this tooth and nail



This isn't a holy war and I would advise you to cease inciting sectarian conflict. 

The first chant.....







> President Zardari of Pakistan was an utter idiot and ruinous for the nation and state, he did nothing but mismanage the country for 5 years, but we did not overthrow the muppet, he was worse then Morsi.



Pakistani democracy is practically a tragically unfunny joke. Mismanagement is one of the reasons Morsi was ousted but it certainly wasnt the primary one, Egypt has been through far worse economic situation yet those didn't result in mass demonstrations and coups or revolutions.

Ramadan mubarak.



> Jihad_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Analysis of Sidi Gaber video suggests serious media complicity in propagating staged incident
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ministry of Interior: men accused of throwing children from a building are not from the Muslim Brotherhood
Click to expand...




> well the source is very much pro Morsi. wait for confirmation from neutral source . but thx anyway.



The majority of pro-Morsi supporters arent members of the MB, It recruits selectively.

And @Jihad_ have respect for the family of the kid that died in that incident......

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## Jihad_

Video showing MB throwing child off building is a hoax


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## Frogman

Jihad_ said:


> Video showing MB throwing child off building is a hoax



Go tell the parents of that kid that the death of their son was a hoax face to face you repugnant and abhorrent human being.

Even the article you posted by the same news website contradicts the disgusting hoax theory.

http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/africa/6495-ministry-of-interior-men-accused-of-throwing-children-from-a-building-are-not-from-the-muslim-brotherhood

This one^^

You scumbag of a human.

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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> Sooo you're just going to forget decades of violence and terrorism


There was never violence and terrorism in Egypt before but it will happen soon because Egypt is becoming increasingly lawless now.



Frogman said:


> plus the assassination of a populist president?
> 
> Ok.....


Sadat was a good president but it was suicidal for signing the treaty with Israel which the vast majority of the Egyptians opposed so it was his fault.


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## MooshMoosh

Hussein said:


> Hasan El - Benna , he was not the one who was the collaborator of Hitler and nazism in the region ?


No, it was Haj Amin al-Husseini who was a Palestinian Arab nationalist.

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## Frogman

> There was never violence and terrorism in Egypt before but it will happen soon because Egypt is becoming increasingly lawless now.



Either youre twelve years old or incredibly ignorant and dont know the history of your own nation.

Just one example.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxor_massacre



> Sadat was a good president but it was suicidal for signing the treaty with Israel which the vast majority of the Egyptians opposed so it was his fault.



So that justifies killing him?

Every nation needs peace after decades of war and thousands of fathers,brothers and sons lost.


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## niaz

I have many Egyptians friends and ex- colleagues and having visited Cairo a number of times I feel a deep empathy for the Egyptian people in general. I have refrained from commenting on this subject because I am torn between supporting a democratically elected president and sympathy for the masses that feel cheated by the flawed polices of an Islamist President.

Last week end I met an old Egyptian friend who is almost like a brother and who was responsible for getting me job in an oil company when I was 62 years old. I was invited to his nephew's wedding in Heliopolis area of Cairo last year. Admittedly his views are biased against Morsi because he is part of the Egyptian upper middle class that is anti-Islamic extremism. For the benefit of the members, I present his views.

Firstly, the way Egyptian election system works is that there is a run-off between the two candidates getting highest votes in the first ballot; the process is repeated until one candidate gets more than 50% votes. Morsi only received about 25% votes in the first ballot, only 1% more than his next rival. This represents his real support. 

Many people who voted for Morsi in the run off were not his supporters; only that they thought he was better than Ahmed Shafik. Final count being 51.73% for Morsi & 48.27% for Ahmed Shafik. Thus Morsi&#8217;s mandate was paper thin.

Secondly, soon after taking office he granted himself unlimited powers ostensibly to &#8216;protect the nation&#8217;. Even though this was reversed a month later Morsi decrees during that period could not be reversed by the courts. 

Morsi claimed that he was for all Egyptians but in effect he was only for the Muslim Brotherhood. Morsi started a program for Islamization per Brotherhood ideology which is not in tune with the Shaafi&#8217;i maslak followed by majority of the Egyptian Muslims.

Last but not the least, Egyptian Joe public hardly cares for which brand of Islam you follow, ordinary folks need jobs, education, health etc., essentially better economic conditions for which Morsi proved totally inept. 

Thus many sections of Egyptian population were deeply disappointed by the new gov&#8217;t&#8217;s performance. The Judiciary because he cut down their powers; Muslim scholars of Al Azhar because Morsi was attempting to impose Syed Qutub style Islamic ideology and the intelligentsia who thought that Morsi was another Hosni Mubarak in Islamist disguise. Even the Saudis got worried because the Royals thought that Muslim Brotherhood would export revolutionary ideas into Saudi Arabia. Man on the street was unhappy simply because economic situation worsened during Muslim brotherhood in power. Needless to say that West is never happy with a revolutionary Islamist regime in a key country such as Egypt. Demonstration against Morsi was a repeat of the previous uprising. 

In response to my objection &#8220;How can an educated and liberal person like you support army action to remove an elected President?&#8221; My friend replied that election does not necessarily mean that if people made a mistake, they must suffer for 4 years! Also even Hitler was democratically elected.
Not being an Egyptian, I don&#8217;t think I have a right to criticise what Egyptians want for their country.

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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> Either youre twelve years old or incredibly ignorant and dont know the history of your own nation.
> 
> Just one example.....
> 
> Luxor massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


My dear, Egypt isn't Iraq. You are saying "decades of violence and terrorism in Egypt" but where is the violence and terrorism? There is no bombings or shooting without being investigated like any other lawless states so the Luxor was nothing.





Frogman said:


> So that justifies killing him?
> 
> Every nation needs peace after decades of war and thousands of fathers,brothers and sons lost.


Israel is our main enemy and will always be our enemy and therefore we should not make a treaty with the Zionist. Hence, this is why Sadat was assasinated. If America did not interrupt Egypt and if Sadat continued the war, Israel would not have existed. That is why he was considered as 'coward' to the Arab people but to me, he was a better president than Abdel Nasser and Mubarak.


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## Jihad_

Disgusting bloodthirsty Egypt army

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## bdslph

now i know middle east countries are paying well for this event 
too bad i dont think this will stop any time soon even they say election is next year if it is not fishy so long wait


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## Yzd Khalifa

Muslim Brotherhood leader&#39;s arrest ordered for &#39;inciting violence&#39; - YouTube


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## darkinsky

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Muslim Brotherhood leader's arrest ordered for 'inciting violence' - YouTube



the army is obviously being very dumb, those 55 people were killed by army and MB is getting arrested for their own dead bodies by those who killed them in the first place

is this a joke or what lol

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## Yzd Khalifa

darkinsky said:


> the army is obviously being very dumb, those 55 people were killed by army and MB is getting arrested for their own dead bodies by those who killed them in the first place
> 
> is this a joke or what lol



Creation of mess and chaos will always have dare consequences.

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## darkinsky

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Creation of mess and chaos will always have dare consequences.



excuse me? but i frankly disagree with your opinion

in your case the might is right

i dont believe that might is always right

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## Yzd Khalifa

darkinsky said:


> excuse me? but i frankly disagree with your opinion
> 
> in your case the might is right
> 
> i dont believe that might is always right



I'm talking about the MB mess and clashes with the Egyptian military Sir  ...

Oh I forgot, happy Ramadan


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## darkinsky

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I'm talking about the MB mess and clashes with the Egyptian military Sir  ...
> 
> Oh I forgot, happy Ramadan



what did MB do to get their 55 men killed? did they have guns? did they kill army guys?

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## Yzd Khalifa

darkinsky said:


> what did MB do to get their 55 men killed? did they have guns? did they kill army guys?



Yes, they were carrying guns on them, and caused lots of riots recently. Haven't you seen the MB guy who throw a young boy from the top of the building?

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## Falcon29

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Yes, they were carrying guns on them, and caused lots of riots recently. Haven't you seen the MB guy who throw a young boy from the top of the building?



Stop making bogus excuses, the 55 people killed were not causing riots and what occurred was pretty much a mass shooting. I don't get why you're very anti MB anyways. It seems like a new thing with some Saudi Arabians even though you support ideologies similar to theirs and groups elsewhere. But, you're probably secular minded and all slap happy about the Royal Airforce when we know if you layed one finger which would never happen on israel your Airforce would be buried under the ground by great number one ally the United States.....

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## Hussein

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Yes, they were carrying guns on them, and caused lots of riots recently. Haven't you seen the MB guy who throw a young boy from the top of the building?


he was not MB. Some say he is salafi because of flag, some say he is takfiri. But obviously not MB.


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## Yzd Khalifa

And what Israel has to do with this? Are you mentally ill or something? I never bragged about a damn thing, your Iranian friends make a meal out of everything like the crappy North Korean missiles and its likes. 


Hazzy997 said:


> Stop making bogus excuses, the 55 people killed were not causing riots and what occurred was pretty much a mass shooting. I don't get why you're very anti MB anyways. It seems like a new thing with some Saudi Arabians even though you support ideologies similar to theirs and groups elsewhere. But, you're probably secular minded and all slap happy about the Royal Airforce when we know if you layed one finger which would never happen on israel your Airforce would be buried under the ground by great number one ally the United States.....



Interesting, if the Salafis did this then why would they wait until the coup toke place? Are you justifying it to them or something? 


Hussein said:


> he was not MB. Some say he is salafi because of flag, some say he is takfiri. But obviously not MB.


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## Hussein

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Interesting, if the Salafis did this then why would they wait until the coup toke place? Are you justifying it to them or something?


i didn't justify anything. i am not making articles and news. some say salafi some say takfiri. ask people who think that to explain you. i know you defend salafi they are the tool of your country but understand i don't blame them here , i am just saying what we can read everywhere, even in this forum.

why it is not MB ? MB would use this flag? what is the interest for MB to act like this ? (that would be stupid)
*and more important what is the proof it is MB since you are the one saying it is MB ?*


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## Yzd Khalifa

Hussein said:


> i didn't justify anything. i am not making articles and news. some say salafi some say takfiri. ask people who think that to explain you. i know you defend salafi they are the tool of your country but understand i don't blame them here , i am just saying what we can read everywhere, even in this forum.
> 
> why it is not MB ? MB would use this flag? what is the interest for MB to act like this ? (that would be stupid)
> *and more important what is the proof it is MB since you are the one saying it is MB ?*



Shame on you. I hate the extremist Salafis. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZWD75G_VpI]Pro-Morsi Demonstrators Threaten Al-Sisi with Suicide Squads and Burning of Christians - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9ZOru3nbRk

DR. Mohmmad El-Adel says " We won't leave the armed forces alone to confront the terrorism of the MB " 




OnTV


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## Hussein

well i am not saying they are salafi for the third time. i am just saying some people say they areand some people say they are takfiri. read this forum you can get many times this answer.

my question to you then again : what is your proof that they are MB ? why these MB guys would act so stupid ? why this flag ?
MB is used to use this flag ? (i would be surprised)

these are questions, not answers.

ok if you are not pro salafis. sorry then. and thanks bro (ah sorry i hope that because i am Iranian i should not insult you being bro ? just a question... since yesterday my Arab lineage is fake , my dad gased by Saddam was gased by Iran, and so)


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## Yzd Khalifa

@agentny17

Since you happen to be an Egyptian, I would appreciate commenting on the subject. And I'm also interested in telling those folks that the violence the MB had committed recently.


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## darkinsky

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Yes, they were carrying guns on them, and caused lots of riots recently. Haven't you seen the MB guy who throw a young boy from the top of the building?



does that justify killing 55 people and im talking about that very specific event where they were killed in numbers, were they carrying guns or were wearing suicide belts?

whats the justification for killing so many people?

sorry but its not about me following my government's line its about the truth, turks support morsi for their govt supports morsi, you support army for your govt stand, same goes for iranians who before were dacing on the tunes, and now condemning 

i think egypt military is being very unfair here

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## Yzd Khalifa

darkinsky said:


> does that justify killing 55 people and im talking about that very specific event where they were killed in numbers, were they carrying guns or were wearing suicide belts?
> 
> whats the justification for killing so many people?
> 
> sorry but its not about me following my government's line its about the truth, turks support morsi for their govt supports morsi, you support army for your govt stand, same goes for iranians who before were dacing on the tunes, and now condemning
> 
> i think egypt military is being very unfair here



I'm not taking side, if it's on me, I would have shot the so-called Tiger of yours long time ago.


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## darkinsky

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I'm not taking side, if it's on me, I would have shot the so-called Tiger of yours long time ago.



sorry not mine but i support the legitimacy of egyptian government and egyptian people, im not saying im taking sides any where, i have also heard morsi did some mistakes, im not egyptian so i wont comment on their matters

what im pointing out is those 55 men were wrongly killed by the army which is usually beyond the law because it sells chickens and refrigerators and stuff to their people, its like a monarchy where their army owns egyptians and 40% of their economy

and now they are arresting the rest of MB to strengthen its marshal law

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## darkinsky

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Shame on you. I hate the extremist Salafis.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZWD75G_VpI]Pro-Morsi Demonstrators Threaten Al-Sisi with Suicide Squads and Burning of Christians - YouTube
> 
> 3895 Morsi supporters prepare for Violent clashes - YouTube
> 
> DR. Mohmmad El-Adel says " We won't leave the armed forces alone to confront the terrorism of the MB "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OnTV



the army has killed so many MBs and MB is only threatening, its actually very natural because the legitimate government was illegitimately removed by the army, obviously now this matter was gonna get violant and you cant blame anything on MB

its all because of egyptian army which acted immaturely and liberals instead of demanding interim setup and immediate elections cheered take over of the army?


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## Frogman

Jihad_ said:


> Disgusting bloodthirsty Egypt army



Sucks for you is that its old footage from Al3abasiya....

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## Jihad_

Frogman said:


> Sucks for you is that its old footage from Al3abasiya....



But the statement still stands. 

Egypt: Damning evidence points to security forces - Amnesty



> Evidence gathered by Amnesty International suggests that the security forces have used excessive force against supporters of deposed President Mohamed Morsi. Since last Friday at least 88 people have lost their lives in protests and political violence, including three members of the security forces, with around 1,500 wounded.
> At least 51 Morsi supporters were killed on monday during clashes outside the Republican guard headquarters.
> Despite claims by the military that protesters attacked first during clashes on Monday and that no women and children were injured, first hand accounts collected by Amnesty International paint a very different picture. Even if some protesters used violence, the response was disproportionate and led to the loss of life and injury among peaceful protesters, said Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui, Middle East and North Africa Deputy Director at Amnesty International.


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## Frogman

> My dear, Egypt isn't Iraq. You are saying "decades of violence and terrorism in Egypt" but where is the violence and terrorism? There is no bombings or shooting without being investigated like any other lawless states so the Luxor was nothing.



So what was Luxor, a terrorist picnic?

Just because murders or terrorist attacks are investigated doesn't negate the fact they happened and that its unacceptable.



> Israel is our main enemy and will always be our enemy and therefore we should not make a treaty with the Zionist.


 Have you or any of your family served in 67 or 73 because some of mine did, a few of them never returned. You have no idea of the horrors and pain both families and fighters go through.



> If America did not interrupt Egypt and if Sadat continued the war, Israel would not have existed.



You just proved that you have no Idea about the 73 war. The wars aims were not to occupy Israel but to return the Sinai by retaking a portion (20km deep) and so making Israeli occupation of the rest impossible. Egyptian forces operated under a SAM umbrella negating Israels air superiority in that region. However, when Sadat ordered armored and mechanized divisions to push deeper at the request of the Syrians (against Alshazlys wishes) they were slaughtered as the Israelis had air superiority and superior armor. Occupying Israel or even the Sinai for that matter was way beyond Egypt's military capacity at that time. 



> That is why he was considered as 'coward' to the Arab people but to me, he was a better president than Abdel Nasser and Mubarak.




Yet, you are still justifying his killing.



Jihad_ said:


> But the statement still stands.
> 
> Egypt: Damning evidence points to security forces - Amnesty



Im not trying to justify what they did, but, if I was I would point out that the pro-Morsi supporters were protesting in front of a military institution and that its within the military's legal jurisdiction to use live fire to disperse protestors or attackers.

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## agentny17

Yzd Khalifa said:


> @agentny17
> 
> Since you happen to be an Egyptian, I would appreciate commenting on the subject. And I'm also interested in telling those folks that the violence the MB had committed recently.



I don't think i need to say anything; the 10 millions in the streets did!! Some people don't want to open their eyes just because the word Muslim in next to brotherhood. Well, they don't represent Islam, democracy, or good leadership!! They represent hate, and violence.



Mosamania said:


> See what I mean @agentny17 ??
> 
> Because we congratulated Egypt on this development they immediately turned against it . It is like the only reason they are against is because we are with it.



Saudi Arabia is the only country that supported Egypt during Mubarak's presidency, during Morsi's 1 year presidency, and after he has been ousted by the people. Give them credit, they have been very consistent about supporting the people, not governments or regimes.

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## Falcon29

Yzd Khalifa said:


> And what Israel has to do with this? Are you mentally ill or something? I never bragged about a damn thing, your Iranian friends make a meal out of everything like the crappy North Korean missiles and its likes.
> 
> 
> Interesting, if the Salafis did this then why would they wait until the coup toke place? Are you justifying it to them or something?



Because your posts make you sound full of yourself especially when referring to the KSA's interests as if they defend their interests but only do so on weak agendas. They know what little mean they mean when it comes to israel in the region. I want to see KSA ahead of israel and I want them to be the big dog in the region. When that happens then you can think about bragging a little. Both you and some Iranians here both have obsessions with each other and both are sometimes honest and not honest. It's starting to annoy me, because both sides make good and bad points.


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## Yzd Khalifa

There's no smoke without fire. Don't expect us to remain silent when the other side are banishing you 24/4. Sometimes you need to pinch someone to wake him/her up, and to bring them to reality. 

As for KSA, I don't know exactly what are you taking about, but KSA will never resort to violence, but if they had to do so then they will do whatever takes to do so. We are used to keep our mouths shut. Maybe the Israelis tend to do it in aggressive ways, but no thanks, we won't do something like this. 



> Because your posts make you sound full of yourself especially when referring to the KSA's interests as if they defend their interests but only do so on weak agendas.





> They know what little mean they mean when it comes to israel in the region



Again, that's a poor judgement, the Israelis aren't in the same position to KSA, and KSA isn't in the same position of Turkey. 



> I want to see KSA ahead of israel and I want them to be the big dog in the region



It depends how you define " the big dog of the neighborhood of the region ". Compaitivelly, Israel succeeded in one filed, and being overshadowed by another. KSA doesn't own the Middile East young man. 



> When that happens then you can think about bragging a little



Like I said earlier, no bragging, period. 

Peace

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## fallstuff

Daily Mail the tabloid which is usually anti-Islamist finds it disturbing the way Morsi supporters were mowed down. The mail is also claiming Mubarak regime goons are back in business enforcing the juntas wishes. 

Why I fear the worst for Egypt: Two years after predicting the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood, a veteran reporter witnesses scenes in Cairo that chill his blood | Mail Online

An interesting observation just before the military coup in Egypt, the Emir in Qatar stepped down. Emirs/Dictators typically do not give up power willingly, they usually go out kicking and screaming or in body bags. 

He a supporter of Assad, also worked with Hizbullah and MB gives up power on June 25th, a week later MB President Morsi is taken down by a coup.

It just maybe more than a coincidence.


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## MooshMoosh

darkinsky said:


> sorry not mine but i support the legitimacy of egyptian government and egyptian people, im not saying im taking sides any where, i have also heard morsi did some mistakes, im not egyptian so i wont comment on their matters
> 
> what im pointing out is those 55 men were wrongly killed by the army which is usually beyond the law because it sells chickens and refrigerators and stuff to their people, its like a monarchy where their army owns egyptians and 40% of their economy
> 
> and now they are arresting the rest of MB to strengthen its marshal law



Don't bother. They are anti MB like their royals and Egyptian users are Nasserist so what do you expect? 

Anyway back to the scene. First day of breaking the fasting outside, beautiful!

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## Kompromat

Its just heartbreaking to see Egypt, a great nation divided like this, its just heartbreaking.

May God have mercy on you and give you unity & peace.

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## Gold1010

From April

Was this guy sacked?



> Bahiya ya Masr, or Beautiful Egypt, a group advocating womens rights, is planning a sit-in on Sunday to protest the Egyptian Information Ministers sexist comments towards two female journalists.
> 
> Salah Abdul Maksoud, angered many Egyptians after he told a female reporter to come to my office and I will show you how, as she mentioned the lack of freedom for expression.
> 
> Last Wednesday, during a press conference at the Information Ministry, the official repeated his infamous remark, when he told yet another female journalist from the private Al-Nahar TV station: come to my office and I will tell you, after she enquired about Egyptian TV content.
> 
> Bahiya ya Masr has planned a sit-in in front of Egypts Radio and TV Union (ERTU) Maspero at 4pm Cairo time, according to the groups Facebook page.
> 
> Riham Salim, one of the coordinators, said the campaign was a reaction to the ministers derogatory comments.
> 
> He knows very well that he angered many with his first statement, so why is he doing it again? Salim asked, as she described his narrow-mindedness and determination to repeat the same mistake.
> 
> On the groups Facebook page, people expressed their disappointment.
> Its a shame that minister disrespects women and journalists this way, a lady who goes by the name Sue Lola Pasha said.
> 
> While another women called Lydia Elewa posted a picture of a plastic slipper which she claims will be used on the minister.
> 
> However, these occurrences are not the first of their kind by the minister. In September last year, the minister said in an interview with Dubai television anchor Zina Yazji I hope your questions arent as hot as you are.
> 
> A remark to which both the presenter and Information Minister laughed nervously.



'Sexist' Egyptian Info Minister causes more feminist outrage - Alarabiya.net English | Front Page


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## Frogman

Gold1010 said:


> From April
> 
> Was this guy sacked?
> 
> 
> 
> 'Sexist' Egyptian Info Minister causes more feminist outrage - Alarabiya.net English | Front Page



Kicked out by the state media employees when mass protests started.

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## Hussein

agentny17 said:


> I don't think i need to say anything; the 10 millions in the streets did!! Some people don't want to open their eyes just because the word Muslim in next to brotherhood. Well, they don't represent Islam, democracy, or good leadership!! They represent hate, and violence.


There is a lot of violence in our region anyway. ALmost all our countries sponsor terrorism. We are the big champions in the world . 
WikiLeaks cables portray Saudi Arabia as a cash machine for terrorists | World news | The Guardian
Fact is MB exists in your country. 
You want to work with them or try to eliminate them ? what do you think ?


agentny17 said:


> Saudi Arabia is the only country that supported Egypt during Mubarak's presidency, during Morsi's 1 year presidency, and after he has been ousted by the people. Give them credit, they have been very consistent about supporting the people, not governments or regimes.


It is good for your country and that's the most important. 
Is there any "plan" for economy?


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## Jihad_

Egyptian army killed dozens of Hamas fighters in Sinai



> Egyptian security forces have killed dozens of armed men and arrested hundreds more as part of a crackdown on extremist cells operating in the Sinai Peninsula, pan-Arab daily Al-Hayat reported on Thursday.
> 
> At least 32 Hamas fighters that entered Sinai through underground smuggling tunnels and joined the cells were among those arrested, according to the report.


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## Jihad_

Great analysis.



Egypt : Coup d'État, Act II - Tariq Ramadan



> I never shared the widespread &#8220;revolutionary&#8221; enthusiasm. Nor did I believe that events in Egypt, any more than in Tunisia, were the result of a sudden historical upheaval. The peoples of these two countries suffered from dictatorship, from economic and social crisis ; they rose up in the name of dignity, social justice and freedom. Their awakening, their &#8220;intellectual revolution,&#8221; and their courage must be saluted. But to accept or justify a simple-minded, linear explanation of the political, geostrategic and economic issues would have been totally unconscionable. Nearly three years ago, in a book and then in a series of articles, I alerted my readers to a body of troubling evidences, and to the underlying geopolitical and economic considerations that were often missing from mainstream political and media analyses, and that insisted on submitting the euphoria that accompanied the &#8220;Arab spring&#8221; to critical analysis.
> 
> The Egyptian army has not returned to politics for the simple reason that it has never left. The fall of Hosni Mubarak was a military coup d&#8217;État that allowed a new generation of officers to enter the political scene in a new way, from behind the curtain of a civilian government. In an article published on June 29 2012 I noted an Army high command declaration that the presidential election was temporary, for a six-month to one-year period (its title made the premonition explicit : &#8220;An election for nothing ?&#8221. The American administration had monitored the entire process : its objective ally in Egypt over the past fifty years has been the army, not the Muslim Brotherhood (MB). The latest revelations (see the International Herald Tribune , July 5, and Le Monde, July 6) confirm what was already clear : the decision to overthrow President Mohamed Morsi had been made well before June 30. A conversation between President Morsi and General al-Sisi indicated that the head of the country&#8217;s military had planned the overthrow and imprisonment of the president weeks before the popular upheaval that would justify the military coup &#8220;in the name of the people&#8217;s will.&#8221; A clever strategy ! Orchestrate demonstrations involving millions of people in order to make believe that the army truly cares about the people ! Coup d&#8217;État, second act.
> 
> How then to analyze the immediate reaction of the American administration, which avoided using the term &#8220;coup d&#8217;État&#8221; (which, if accepted, would mean it could not provide financial support to the new regime) ? A curious position for a government that in its &#8216;surprise&#8217; uses exactly the right words to exert full political, economic and legal leverage over the coup makers. European governments will follow suit, of course : the army has responded &#8220;democratically&#8221; to the call of the people. It&#8217;s all too good to be true ! Magically, chronic blackouts, gasoline and natural gas shortages came to an abrupt end after the fall of the president. It was as though people had been deprived of the basic necessities in order to drive them into the streets. Amnesty International observed the strange attitude of the armed forces, which did not intervene in certain demonstrations (even though it was closely monitoring them), allowing the violence to spiral out of control, as though by design. The armed forces then accompanied its intervention with a saturation public relations campaign, providing the international media with photographs taken from its helicopters, depicting the Egyptian population as it cheered and celebrated their military saviors, as confirmed in Le Monde.
> 
> Nothing, then, has really changed : the &#8220;Arab spring&#8221; and the Egyptian &#8220;revolution&#8221; continue under the guiding hand of General Abdul Fatah al-Sisi. Trained by the United States Army, the general has kept close contact with his American counterparts. The New International Herald Tribune (July 6-7) informs us that General al-Sisi is well known to the Americans, as well as to the government of Israel, with which he &#8220;and his office&#8221;, we are told, continued to &#8220;communicate and to coordinate&#8221; even while Mohamed Morsi occupied the presidential palace. Al-Sisi had earlier served in the Military Intelligence Services in the North Sinai, acting as go-between for the American and Israeli authorities. It would hardly be an understatement to say that Israel, like the United States, could only look favorably upon developments in Egypt.
> 
> What, after the fact, is surprising, is the simple-mindedness, the lack of experience and the nature of the mistakes made by Mohamed Morsi, by his allies, and by the Muslim Brotherhood as an organization. For the last three years, I have been sharply critical of the thinking, action and strategies of the &#8220;Liberty and Justice&#8221; party, as well as of the MB leadership (over the last twenty-five years, my analyses and commentary have been and remain sharply critical). The trap seemed glaringly obvious ; my writings on the subject (book, and articles written between March and December 2012) pointed to grave shortcomings. President Morsi cannot be fairly criticized for not doing all he could to establish relations with the opposition, either by inviting it to join the government or to take part in a broad national dialogue. But his approaches were rejected out of hand, with the opposition bitterly opposing his every initiative. The fact remains, however, that his management of the business of state, his failure to listen to the voice of the people and even to some of his trusted advisors, his exclusivist relationship with the highest echelons of the MB leadership, his hasty and ill-considered decisions (some of which he later acknowledged as errors) must be unsparingly criticized. But on a more fundamental level, his greatest fault has been the utter absence of a political vision and the lack of clearly established political and economic priorities, his failure to struggle against corruption and poverty, and his egregious mismanagement of social and educational affairs. The demands of the International Monetary Fund (and its deliberate procrastination) placed the state in an untenable position : the Morsi government believed that the international institution would support it. It is only today, now that President Morsi has fallen, that the IMF appears prepared to remove what were previously insurmountable obstacles. This, coming a mere three days after the overthrow of a democratically elected government.
> 
> The naivety of the president, of his government and of the Muslim Brotherhood has been stunning. After sixty years of opposition and military repression (with the direct and indirect benediction of the US Administration and the West), how could they possibly have imagined that their former adversaries would support their rise to power, invoking democracy all the while ? Did they learn nothing from their own history, from Algeria in 1992, and, more recently, from Palestine ? I have been and remain critical, both of the (superficial) content of their program and the ambiguous strategy of President Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood (compromise with the armed forces and the United States, surrender on the economy and the Palestinian cause, etc.) but their lack of political awareness has been quite simply stupefying. To hear President Morsi tell General al-Sisi, a mere ten days before his overthrow, that he might well demote him (after all, he had appointed him) and that the Americans would &#8220;never permit a coup d&#8217;État&#8221; was as mind-boggling as it was surrealistic.
> 
> Some observers were startled to see the salafis , in particular the an-Nour party, join forces with the military alongside the &#8220;democratic&#8221; faction opposed to President Morsi. Were the outcome not so tragic, it would be tempting to label it farce. The Western media were quick to label the &#8220;Islamist&#8221; salafis as allies of the Muslim Brotherhood while ; in point of fact, they were and are allies of the regimes of the Gulf States, who are in turn the regional allies of the United States. The idea was to undermine the religious credibility of the Muslim Brotherhood, and to force it into extreme positions. At the moment of President Morsi&#8217;s overthrow, they not only betrayed him but revealed their strategy and their strategic alliances for the entire world to see. It is hardly surprising to note that the first countries to recognize the new coup d&#8217;État regime were the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, whose powerful organizations provided, and still provide, direct and indirect financial support to the Egyptian salafis (as well as to their Tunisian counterparts). A superficial reading might lead one to believe that Saudi Arabia and Qatar support the Muslim Brotherhood ; in reality they are the mainstays of American power in the region. The strategy is to sow division among the various political Islamic trends, to foment confrontation and to destabilize. This same strategy focuses on contradictions between Sunni political organizations and exacerbates divisions between Shia and Sunni. The United States and Europe have no quarrel with the political Islam of the salafi literalists of the Gulf States (and their denial of democracy, their non-respect of minorities, their discrimination against women, and the application of a strict &#8220;Islamic&#8221; penal code described as &#8220;shari&#8217;a&#8221 ; they protect their geostrategic and regional economic interests while their repressive and retrograde domestic policies, as long as they are applied domestically, could not matter less to the West.
> 
> It&#8217;s all about keeping up appearances. Millions of Egyptians rallied in support of the &#8220;second revolution&#8221; and appealed to the armed forces, which were quick to respond. They now promise to turn over power to the civilians. The leader of the opposition, Mohamed al-Baradei, has played a central role in the process, and his prominence has been growing apace. He has been in close touch with the youthful cyber-dissidents and the April 6 Movement since 2008 ; documents of the U.S. State Department, which I quote in my book, point to his close connection with the American administration. His visibility has been promoted by a clever strategy, and even though he has declined the position of Prime Minister (and announced that he will not be a candidate for president, which has yet to be seen), he has emerged as an important player on the Egyptian political scene. He has notoriously&#8212;and democratically&#8212;defended the arrest of members of the Muslim Brotherhood, the closing of their television stations and the entire range of repressive measures imposed on citizens who continue to support President Morsi, even though they may not be MB members (some are supporting democratic legitimacy). The weeks to come will provide us with more details about plans for fleshing out the civilian character of this particular military state. It must be remembered that for decades the Egyptian army has managed close to 40% of the national economy as well as being the leading recipient of an annual American aid package of $1.5 billion.
> 
> An elected president has been toppled by a military coup d&#8217;État. There is no other word for it. The people, in their legitimate desire for a better life and for survival, for justice and dignity, have been unwitting participants in a media-military operation of the highest order. The situation is grave ; the silence of Western governments tells us all we need to know. There has been no &#8220;Arab spring&#8221; ; the perfume of its revolutions burns the eyes like tear gas.
> 
> In our day, it is not unusual for writer who does not accept the official consensus to be dismissed as a &#8220;conspiracy theorist,&#8221; for his analysis to be rejected before studying the facts upon which it is based. Are we to conclude that in our globalizing age, with its networks of national security policies and structures and its new means of communication, political scheming, malicious stratagems, manipulation of information and of peoples are a thing of the past ? &#8220;Conspiracy theorist&#8221; is a new insult devised for those who think the wrong thoughts, who don&#8217;t fit in ; paranoids, people who ascribe occult powers to certain states (the United States, the European countries, Israel, the Arab and African dictatorships, etc.) that they really do not possess. We must forget what we learned about the conspiracies that have left their mark on the history of Latin America and Africa (from the assassination of Salvador Allende to the elimination of Thomas Sankara) ; we must overlook the lies that led to the invasion of Iraq and to the massacres in Gaza (both presented as legitimate defense) ; we must say nothing about the West&#8217;s alliance with and support for the literalist salafis of the Gulf sheikhdoms ; close our eyes to the benefit for Israel of regional instability and of the most recent coup d&#8217;État in Egypt. We must remain naïve and credulous if we are not to notice that the United States and Europe on the one hand, and Russia and China on the other, have agreed to disagree on Syria, and that the 170 Syrians who die each day count for nothing against the strategic and economic interests of the Great Powers.
> 
> Our obligation is to stick to the facts, to avoid oversimplification. The polar opposite of an over-simplified reading of events is not &#8220;conspiracy theorizing&#8221; but that of intelligence informed by history, by hard facts and by a detailed analysis of conflicting interests. The interpretation presented here may well be wrong or inexact, but substantial and verifiable evidence has repeatedly confirmed it. From those who have criticized or challenged our analysis, we look forward to a fact-based counter-analysis far from denigrations and facile slogans. When people refuse to call a military coup d&#8217;État by its real name, and when most media avert their eyes, the hour for critical conscience has struck.

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## Falcon29

Jihad_ said:


> Egyptian army killed dozens of Hamas fighters in Sinai



That's absolutely not true at all, I've never seen such bull$hit lies pouring out left and right in my life before. Hamas fighters are in Gaza to stay in Gaza and there's no gain of going out in the Sinai to fight the Egyptian military. 

If it were even true it would be the other way around, Egyptian soldiers would have been killed. Hamas fighters aren't just any militants. 

But this 'report' is completely false.

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## Frogman

> That's absolutely not true at all, I've never seen such bull$hit lies pouring out left and right in my life before. Hamas fighters are in Gaza to stay in Gaza and there's no gain of going out in the Sinai to fight the Egyptian military.
> 
> *If it were even true it would be the other way around, Egyptian soldiers would have been killed. Hamas fighters aren't just any militants.*
> 
> But this 'report' is completely false.




  







+





+





And a lot of   = no more Hamas brigades in the Sinai if they dared go there in the first place.

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## Falcon29

LOL, you're displaying special forces who are nowhere to be found in the Sinai, the truth is they are lightly armed soldiers and every few blocks there are military vehicles with machine guns. 

I saw salafists in my own eyes who had several motorcycles and jeeps driving past Egyptian soldiers with light arms only to find the soldiers ducking into their tanks. 

Btw, you're an Egyptian Copt living in the UK, Hamas hasn't interfered in the past events. Don't need to explain why, but you've probably never been to the Sinai. 

If any Hamas militants went to Egypt the word would have already been spread here. It's a false report.


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## BeyondHeretic

Great news , may my Egyptian friends like this one


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## Jihad_

Sudden Improvements in Egypt Suggest a Campaign to Undermine Morsi - NYT



> The streets seethe with protests and government ministers are on the run or in jail, but since the military ousted President Mohamed Morsi, life has somehow gotten better for many people across Egypt: Gas lines have disappeared, power cuts have stopped and the police have returned to the street.
> 
> The apparently miraculous end to the crippling energy shortages, and the re-emergence of the police, seems to show that the legions of personnel left in place after former President Hosni Mubarak was ousted in 2011 played a significant role &#8212; intentionally or not &#8212; in undermining the overall quality of life under the Islamist administration of Mr. Morsi.
> 
> And as the interim government struggles to unite a divided nation, the Muslim Brotherhood and Mr. Morsi&#8217;s supporters say the sudden turnaround proves that their opponents conspired to make Mr. Morsi fail. Not only did police officers seem to disappear, but the state agencies responsible for providing electricity and ensuring gas supplies failed so fundamentally that gas lines and rolling blackouts fed widespread anger and frustration.
> 
> &#8220;This was preparing for the coup,&#8221; said Naser el-Farash, who served as the spokesman for the Ministry of Supply and Internal Trade under Mr. Morsi. &#8220;Different circles in the state, from the storage facilities to the cars that transport petrol products to the gas stations, all participated in creating the crisis.&#8221;
> 
> Working behind the scenes, members of the old establishment, some of them close to Mr. Mubarak and the country&#8217;s top generals, also helped finance, advise and organize those determined to topple the Islamist leadership, including Naguib Sawiris, a billionaire and an outspoken foe of the Brotherhood; Tahani El-Gebali, a former judge on the Supreme Constitutional Court who is close to the ruling generals; and Shawki al-Sayed, a legal adviser to Ahmed Shafik, Mr. Mubarak&#8217;s last prime minister, who lost the presidential race to Mr. Morsi.
> 
> But it is the police returning to the streets that offers the most blatant sign that the institutions once loyal to Mr. Mubarak held back while Mr. Morsi was in power. Throughout his one-year tenure, Mr. Morsi struggled to appease the police, even alienating his own supporters rather than trying to overhaul the Interior Ministry. But as crime increased and traffic clogged roads &#8212; undermining not only the quality of life, but the economy &#8212; the police refused to deploy fully.


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## Frogman

> LOL, you're displaying special forces who are nowhere to be found in the Sinai, the truth is they are lightly armed soldiers and every few blocks there are military vehicles with machine guns.



Which is normally the case in the Sinai but as the situation is deteriorating both the military and central security forces plus the police have increased their special forces/operations presence. Special forces are also highly mobile and can be transported by helicopter to areas pretty quickly. e.g unit 777 has Chinooks at its disposal. Apaches are now permanently stationed in Alarish.



> I saw salafists in my own eyes who had several motorcycles and jeeps driving past Egyptian soldiers with light arms only to find the soldiers ducking into their tanks.



So you want a conscript to jump out of an armored vehicle or tank and engage the enemy leaving himself exposed?



> Btw, you're an Egyptian Copt living in the UK, Hamas hasn't interfered in the past events. Don't need to explain why, but you've probably never been to the Sinai.



Im not a Copt and I'm not sure how that's entirely relevant and I have been to the Sinai on multiple occasions. Thanks for the sectarian love though I really feel it man, its not like there's enough conflicts over pointless rubbish in the ME is there.



> If any Hamas militants went to Egypt the word would have already been spread here. It's a false report.



Most probably, but, several Palestinians have been arrested in the Sinai although the military and the police didn't identify them as belonging to Hamas or any other organization. This report is most likely a case of shoddy journalism.

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## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> Which is normally the case in the Sinai but as the situation is deteriorating both the military and central security forces plus the police have increased their special forces/operations presence. Special forces are also highly mobile and can be transported by helicopter to areas pretty quickly. e.g unit 777 has Chinooks at its disposal. Apaches are now permanently stationed in Alarish.
> 
> 
> 
> So you want a conscript to jump out of an armored vehicle or tank and engage the enemy leaving himself exposed?
> 
> 
> 
> Im not a Copt and I'm not sure how that's entirely relevant and I have been to the Sinai on multiple occasions. Thanks for the sectarian love though I really feel it man, its not like there's enough conflicts over pointless rubbish in the ME is there.
> 
> 
> 
> Most probably, but, several Palestinians have been arrested in the Sinai although the military and the police didn't identify them as belonging to Hamas or any other organization. This report is most likely a case of shoddy journalism.



They didn't engage the 'enemy' at all and they both weren't there to fight each other. At least from what I saw. 

Exactly, none were members of the Qassam Brigades, as usual it's shadowy reporting by elements in the media that despise Hamas. 

I referred to you as a Copt because I wanted to see if that's why you have something against Hamas. 

But it's all fine with me and you now, I don't really fear this change in Egypt. All we ask here is for the Egyptian side to keep the border open. 

Other than that, people don't wish anything against Egypt or wish for more. 

The policitical party on the other hand is watching carefully and preparing to create ties. But, they've been in these situations before and usually come back climbing.


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## Frogman

> They didn't engage the 'enemy' at all and they both weren't there to fight each other. At least from what I saw.


 Probably a known resident then. As you know strict gun control isn't enforced as strictly in the Sinai as it is on the west bank (or was).



> Exactly, none were members of the Qassam Brigades, as usual it's shadowy reporting by elements in the media that despise Hamas.



I think its born out of misunderstanding rather than actual hatred. Because of Hamas's relationship with the MB and its support for Morsi it seen as an extension of the MB rather than an independent organization (although there may be a small degree of truth in those accusations ).



> I referred to you as a Copt because I wanted to see if that's why you have something against Hamas.



The majority of Copts I know both in Egypt or here in the UK have nothing substantial (other than the regular human rights stuff) against Hamas. The Egyptian people are very sympathetic to the Palestinian cause and if the citizens of Gaza choose Hamas to represent them then any Egyptian administration will have to deal with them. 



> Other than that, people don't wish anything against Egypt or wish for more.
> 
> The policitical party on the other hand is watching carefully and preparing to create ties. But, they've been in these situations before and usually come back climbing.



Hamas will have to deal with the next Egyptian regime and vise versa no matter how frosty the relationship may be.

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## MooshMoosh

Hazzy997 said:


> That's absolutely not true at all, I've never seen such bull$hit lies pouring out left and right in my life before. Hamas fighters are in Gaza to stay in Gaza and there's no gain of going out in the Sinai to fight the Egyptian military.
> 
> If it were even true it would be the other way around, Egyptian soldiers would have been killed. Hamas fighters aren't just any militants.
> 
> But this 'report' is completely false.



Everyone knows Hamas never involved in any conflict in Egypt. There had been a clash recently between forces and the bedouins but not big as expected. They were not happy about the coup. Sinai is lawless and bedouins can be armed.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

Hazzy997 said:


> LOL, you're displaying special forces who are nowhere to be found in the Sinai, the truth is they are lightly armed soldiers and every few blocks there are military vehicles with machine guns.
> 
> I saw salafists in my own eyes who had several motorcycles and jeeps driving past Egyptian soldiers with light arms only to find the soldiers ducking into their tanks.
> 
> Btw, you're an Egyptian Copt living in the UK, Hamas hasn't interfered in the past events. Don't need to explain why, but you've probably never been to the Sinai.
> 
> If any Hamas militants went to Egypt the word would have already been spread here. It's a false report.


if you think you can fight why did you run away like a coward and leave your people to be F..... by the isreals you talking about hamas like they are heroes you just wait and see what will happen to them in the coming days 
and btw copts means Egyptians and even if he is christian he has full right to talk about his country

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## Yzd Khalifa

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> btw copts means Egyptians and even if he is christian he has full right to talk about his country



I would like to add something if I may:- 

Since I have been in Egypt I can speak with authority, I never seen any Muslim Egyptian mistreating a Coptic Christian or the other way around. The Christian community in Egypt is very nice and friendly, some of them even came here to live and work in KSA.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

Yzd Khalifa said:


> If I may;
> 
> Since I have been in Egypt I can speak with authority, I never seen any Muslim Egyptian mistreating a Christian Coptic or the other way around. The Christians community in Egypt is very nice and friendly, some of them even came here to live and work in KSA.


yes there is no minority in Egypt all Egyptians are brothers equal in rights and duties

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## Yzd Khalifa

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> yes there is no minority in Egypt all Egyptians are brothers equal in rights and duties



The Egyptian people are one of the most civilized nations on earth, no doubt. 

Let just hope Egypt will get on its feet once more soon.

I heard about the recent incidence, sorry my Egyptian friends

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## Falcon29

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> if you think you can fight why did you run away like a coward and leave your people to be F..... by the isreals you talking about hamas like they are heroes you just wait and see what will happen to them in the coming days
> and btw copts means Egyptians and even if he is christian he has full right to talk about his country



You enjoy your fantasy story that's all in your head, Hamas was never involved and Egyptian police reports confirmed that. And what will we see in the 'coming days' of yours. 

Wouldn't be surprised be israel is hinting Egypt and a new offensive on Gaza and getting the okay.


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## Hussein

@Jihad_ 
Tariq Ramadan is very much liked in muslim communauty, at least in France.
He has some good analysis , not always agree with him but he is a major figure .

Did you know who are his ancestors ? his grand father ?


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## Yzd Khalifa

Hussein said:


> @Jihad_
> Tariq Ramadan is very much liked in muslim communauty, at least in France.
> He has some good analysis , not always agree with him but he is a major figure .
> 
> Did you know who are his ancestors ? his grand father ?



His gran father or maybe his great grandfather is one of the founders of the MB right?


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## Hussein

Yzd Khalifa said:


> His gran father or maybe his great grandfather is one of the founders of the MB right?


exactly his grand father was Hassan el-Banna himself. the mom of Tariq went to Switzerland to escape persecution and that explains why he is Swiss.
some people accused him to be pro MB (because of his ancestor) so many times he had to say he is not in MB


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## Frogman

Ramadan mubarak to all

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## MooshMoosh

zionist scum

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## hussain0216

Why do they even bother,

I never understood what these people pray for, what do they ask for that God gives them strength to oppose his word and fight against the implementation of his will


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## Hussein



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## Neptune

Frogman said:


> Ramadan mubarak to all



Ramadan mubarak to you too from the heighs of south eastern Turkey

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## Devil Soul

US Terms Morsi Rule &#8216;Undemocratic&#8217;
PM Won&#8217;t Rule Out Brotherhood Role
CAIRO, July 11, (Agencies): Egypt&#8217;s interim rulers welcomed on Thursday remarks from the US State department describing the rule of toppled leader Mohamed Morsi as undemocratic, clearly hoping they signalled Washington would not cut off its $1.5 billion in annual aid. In a stark illustration of the desperate state of Egypt&#8217;s economy, a former minister from Morsi&#8217;s ousted government said Egypt has less than two months&#8217; supply left of imported wheat, revealing a far worse shortage than previously disclosed. The army&#8217;s removal of Egypt&#8217;s first democratically elected leader last week, after millions took to the streets to protest against him, has left the Arab world&#8217;s most populous country polarised by divisions unseen in its modern history.


Violence between supporters of Morsi and soldiers at a military compound this week has deepened the fissures. Washington has been treading a careful line. US law bars aid to countries where a democratic government is removed in a coup. So far Washington has said it is too early to say whether the Egyptian events met that description. Nevertheless, State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said on Wednesday, Morsi&#8217;s government &#8220;wasn&#8217;t a democratic rule&#8221;.&#8220;What I mean is what we&#8217;ve been referencing about the 22 million people who have been out there voicing their views and making clear that democracy is not just about simply winning the vote at the ballot box.&#8221;


Egypt&#8217;s Foreign Ministry spokesman, Badr Abdelatty, said the comments &#8220;reflect understanding and realisation ... about the political developments that Egypt is witnessing in the recent days, as embodying the will of the millions of Egyptians who took to the streets starting on June 30 to ask for their legitimate rights and call for early elections&#8221;.
In the days before Morsi&#8217;s downfall, the US ambassador in Cairo attracted sharp criticism from Morsi&#8217;s opponents for a speech that stressed that Morsi was democratically elected and discouraged street protests against him.
The White House on Monday refused to label the ouster of Egypt&#8217;s president a military coup and said there would be no immediate cut-off in US aid to Egypt. US officials have since said they are still reviewing the matter. In the past, the US government has taken more than two months to make up its mind on such questions.
Two and a half years of political turmoil has left Egypt on the brink of economic collapse, scaring away tourists and investors, shrivelling hard currency reserves and threatening its ability to import food and fuel for its 84 million people.
Speaking to Reuters near midnight in a tent at a vigil by thousands of Morsi supporters, the ousted president&#8217;s supply minister, Bassem Ouda, revealed that government stocks held just 500,000 tonnes of imported wheat.
Egypt, the world&#8217;s biggest buyer, usually imports about 10 million tonnes of wheat a year, half of which is given out by the state in the form of subsidised bread sold for less than one US cent a loaf.
The imported wheat stock figure, previously a closely-guarded secret, means Egypt will need to urgently start spending a $12 billion financial aid lifeline it has been given in the past two days by Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait, rich Gulf states that welcomed Morsi&#8217;s downfall.
Egypt had not bought any imported wheat since February, its longest absence from the market in years, until the eve of Morsi&#8217;s downfall when it bought 180,000 tonnes.
The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization said in a report that Egypt risked serious food security problems if insecurity and a shortage of foreign currency hinder imports.


&#8220;I think the aim of the Arab countries is to make sure Egypt doesn&#8217;t fail with respect to food security and financial commitments with the international banking system, so I would think they will push to get the aid through quickly,&#8221; said Kisan Gunjal, economist and food emergency Officer at the FAO.
Adli Mansour, the interim president named by the general who removed Morsi, has moved briskly to implement an army &#8220;road map&#8221; to restore civilian rule. This week he announced a temporary constitution, plans to amend it and a faster-than-expected schedule for parliamentary elections in about six months.
He also named 76-year-old liberal economist Hazem el-Beblawi as interim prime minister. Beblawi held his first meetings with political leaders on Wednesday and told Reuters that he expects the transitional cabinet to be in place early next week.
Negotiations are difficult, with the authorities trying to attract support from groups that range from secularists to ultra-orthodox Muslims, nearly all of whom expressed deep dissatisfaction with elements of the interim constitution.
Those political moves have been accompanied by a crackdown on the Brotherhood, the Islamist movement which worked in the shadows for 85 years before emerging as Egypt&#8217;s best-organised political force when autocrat Hosni Mubarak was toppled in 2011.


Qualified
Egypt&#8217;s premier said Thursday he does not rule out posts for the Muslim Brotherhood in his cabinet if candidates are qualified, even as police cracked down on the Islamist group.
Hazem al-Beblawi, who was appointed on Tuesday, told AFP in a telephone interview he was still considering the makeup of his interim government after president Morsi&#8217;s overthrow in a popular military coup last week.
&#8220;I don&#8217;t look at political association ... If someone is named from (the Brotherhood&#8217;s) Freedom and Justice Party, if he is qualified for the post&#8221; he may be considered, Beblawi said.
&#8220;I&#8217;m taking two criteria for the next government. Efficiency and credibility,&#8221; he added.
&#8220;So far I haven&#8217;t approached anyone,&#8221; Beblawi said, explaining he wanted to decide on the best candidates before asking them to join the government.
Morsi&#8217;s Muslim Brotherhood has already rejected an offer from Beblawi to join the new government, and called for a mass rally on Friday against what it called &#8220;a bloody military coup&#8221;.


An anti-Morsi camp meanwhile is reported to be planning a Cairo rally to mark the Muslim holy fasting month of Ramadan following weekly prayers on Friday.
The rally planned in Cairo&#8217;s iconic Tahrir Square, epicentre of the 2011 uprising that toppled veteran leader Hosni Mubarak, raises the possibility of further violence following a week of bloodshed after Morsi&#8217;s July 3 ouster.
In the bloodiest incident, clashes around an army building on Monday left 53 people dead, mostly Morsi partisans.
Police were searching for the Brotherhood&#8217;s Supreme Guide, Mohamed Badie, after a warrant was issued for his arrest on Wednesday, in connection with the violence.
Badie and other senior Brotherhood leaders are wanted on suspicion of inciting the clashes, judicial sources said.


After a year in power through Morsi, the Brotherhood is now in tatters, with much of its leadership detained, on the run or keeping a low profile following Morsi&#8217;s overthrow.
Morsi himself is currently being held in a &#8220;safe place, for his safety,&#8221; foreign ministry spokesman Badr Abdelatty told reporters Wednesday, adding: &#8220;He is not charged with anything up till now,&#8221; he said.
Military and judicial sources have said the ousted leader may face charges eventually.
His overthrow by the military last week, after nationwide protests demanding his resignation, has plunged Egypt into a vortex of violence.
In the restive Sinai peninsula, a Coptic Christian man was Thursday found decapitated five days after he was kidnappped by gunmen, security officials and witnesses told AFP.
Analysts had highlighted the danger of extremists exploiting tensions and unrest across Egypt since the military overthrew Morsi.
Thousands of Morsi supporters Wednesday evening joined those camped out at the Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque in Cairo&#8217;s Nasr City, to break the daily Ramadan fast.
They vowed to leave only when Morsi, the country&#8217;s first freely elected president, is reinstated.
&#8220;We are gathering here for Morsi. I voted for him and I want to know where he is,&#8221; said protester Mohammed, 47.


&#8220;We will stay here either until the president&#8217;s return or martyrdom,&#8221; he said.
The Brotherhood accuses the army of &#8220;massacring&#8221; its supporters in Monday&#8217;s incident, and the army says soldiers came under attack by &#8220;terrorists&#8221; and armed protesters.
The public prosecutor pressed charges on Wednesday against 200 of the 650 people it detained during the violence.
Last week Badie gave a fiery speech in which he vowed that Brotherhood activists would throng the streets in their millions until Morsi&#8217;s presidency was restored.
Mansour, appointed caretaker president by the military following Morsi&#8217;s overthrow, has set a timetable for elections by early next year.
Opponents and supporters of Morsi alike have criticised the interim charter he issued on Monday to replace the Islamist-drafted constitution, which he suspended, and to steer a transition the army has itself acknowledged will be &#8220;difficult.&#8221;
An official with one of the parties in the National Salvation Front (NSF), the main coalition formerly led by ElBaradei, criticised Mansour&#8217;s 33-article declaration for according extensive powers to the interim president.


Many within the coalition are wary of repeating the mistakes of the last military-led transition, between Hosni Mubarak&#8217;s ouster in 2011 and Morsi&#8217;s election in June 2012.
The Brotherhood&#8217;s demise has been applauded by three Gulf states, who quickly stepped in to help prop up Egypt&#8217;s faltering economy.
Kuwait on Wednesday pledged $4 billion in cash, loans and fuel, with Saudi Arabia offering a total of $5 billion and the United Arab Emirates $3 billion.
The United States is pressing ahead with plans to deliver four F-16 fighters to Egypt despite a military coup against President Morsi, a US official said Thursday.
&#8220;It&#8217;s still the status quo,&#8221; the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told AFP.
There was no decision to halt the scheduled transfer of the warplanes or to cut off other security assistance to Egypt, the official said, even though the US government has announced a review of all aid to Cairo.
President Barack Obama&#8217;s administration has said it is examining whether the military takeover constitutes a coup, which under US law would force Washington to freeze any aid to Egypt.
The Pentagon said it remains dedicated to maintaining longstanding military ties with Egypt and that the United States wants to see a prompt return to civilian, democratic rule.
&#8220;Looking forward, we will work with the Egyptian people to support a quick and responsible return to a sustainable, democratically elected civilian government,&#8221; the Pentagon said in a statement.
&#8220;Given the events of last week, the president has directed relevant departments and agencies to review our assistance to the government of Egypt.&#8221;
The F-16s are part of an arms deal with Egypt approved in 2010 that calls for the supply of 20 of the fighter jets.


Eight of the warplanes were delivered earlier this year and four more are scheduled to be delivered in August, with another eight due later in the year, officials said.
Egypt has received more than 220 F-16 fighters since 1980 and has the world&#8217;s fourth largest F-16 fleet, behind the United States, Israel and Turkey.
With Egypt gripped by intense political turmoil, the Obama administration has relied on the US military&#8217;s deep ties with the Egyptian armed forces as its main channel for diplomacy and communication.
Since July 2, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has had eight phone conversations with Egyptian army chief General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, including one that lasted 45 minutes, Pentagon spokesman George Little told reporters.
&#8220;We believe that it&#8217;s appropriate to use this important channel we have with the Egyptians to convey our insights, thoughts and our views on the situation that&#8217;s occurring in Egypt,&#8221; Little said Wednesday.
The United States provides $1.5 billion of mostly military aid to Egypt every year.


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Evening meal(ftaar) of firts day of fasting month, Holy Ramadan
Egypt Army:
*Those who are fed from outside of country..*





MB supporters At Rabaa Al-Adawiya Square




*Those who are feeding from Egypt.. water and dates..
*
No more comment needed for now....just wait to see Egypt of 4-5 years later..

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## Frogman

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> Evening meal(ftaar) of firts day of fasting month, Holy Ramadan
> Egypt Army:
> *Those who are fed from outside of country..*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MB supporters At Rabaa Al-Adawiya Square
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Those who are feeding from Egypt.. water and dates..
> *
> No more comment needed for now....just wait to see Egypt of 4-5 years later..

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## babajees

MooshMoosh said:


> zionist scum



No no. He is really good. Killed some handful of muslims  if the jews would hav done it, everybody would hav been in uproar.. but jews made him do it so all is well


----------



## idune

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> Evening meal(ftaar) of firts day of fasting month, Holy Ramadan
> Egypt Army:
> *Those who are fed from outside of country..*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MB supporters At Rabaa Al-Adawiya Square
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Those who are feeding from Egypt.. water and dates..
> *
> No more comment needed for now....just wait to see Egypt of 4-5 years later..



You have drawn attention to gist of outside interference in Egypt today reflecting in Ramadan Iftar. Question is -is it Saudi or Emirati money or US aid in disguise feeding soldiers these fancy meals. But offcourse it is Egyptian people who are just eating dates will be paying off foreign debt.

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## Yzd Khalifa

I thought so my man. 


Hussein said:


> exactly his grand father was Hassan el-Banna himself. the mom of Tariq went to Switzerland to escape persecution and that explains why he is Swiss.
> some people accused him to be pro MB (because of his ancestor) so many times he had to say he is not in MB




@Frogman 

Have you seen this?


----------



## Frogman

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I thought so my man.
> 
> 
> 
> @Frogman
> 
> Have you seen this?



Yes but have you seen this.......

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## Yzd Khalifa

@Frogman  WTF?


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## Frogman

Yzd Khalifa said:


> @Frogman  WTF?



You know us Egyptians like to have seggsy time at protests but with the Ikhwan and Salafis kolloh beh mah yordi Allah.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Frogman said:


> You know us Egyptians like to have seggsy time at protests but with the Ikhwan and Salafis kolloh beh mah yordi Allah.



Dude, this is too much, I can't take it  

BTW, what are you guys going to do with Morsi? Will they keep him under house arrest for a month or so?


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## mahatir

Frogman said:


> Yes but have you seen this.......




a7a ya3ny mesh bas leek fetar bebalash , kaman bel mozza , dah a5er 7alawa , mesh na2es 3'eer el 7asheesh wel maza



Frogman said:


> You know us Egyptians like to have seggsy time at protests but with the Ikhwan and Salafis kolloh beh mah yordi Allah.



talama fe 7odood el shar3eya mafeesh moshkela .


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## mahatir

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> Evening meal(ftaar) of firts day of fasting month, Holy Ramadan
> Egypt Army:
> *Those who are fed from outside of country..*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MB supporters At Rabaa Al-Adawiya Square
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Those who are feeding from Egypt.. water and dates..
> *
> No more comment needed for now....just wait to see Egypt of 4-5 years later..



with all due respect but you have no idea about Egypt or its people , by the way most of the clowns the MB gathered in cairo are payed 200 pounds per day for the show .

&#x202b;

MB so called supporters payed for their fetar and cheering for a clown they do not even know who he is


----------



## MooshMoosh

mahatir said:


> with all due respect but you have no idea about Egypt or its people , by the way most of the clowns the MB gathered in cairo are payed 200 pounds per day for the show .
> 
> &#8235;
> 
> MB so called supporters payed for their fetar and cheering for a clown they do not even know who he is



Coming from a person who lives in UAE that has an emiraties whos an anti MB 
He is showing the difference, moron. Egypt isn't an ultra secular majority who seek ultra secular state like the previous Turkish Kemalist govts. Also it is ramadan where people "Gather and Eat" to get Ajur (reward). BTW, by judging your previous post, I still can't tell whether you're Muslim or not so it doesn't bother me if you talk like this.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Well, 

Wd don't know yet what the new Egypt will look like, but I find it hard to believe that it will ultra secular. 


MooshMoosh said:


> Coming from a person who lives in UAE that has an emiraties whos an anti MB
> He is showing the difference, moron. Egypt isn't an ultra secular majority who seek ultra secular state like the previous Turkish Kemalist govts. Also it is ramadan where people "Gather and Eat" to get Ajur (reward). BTW, by judging your previous post, I still can't tell whether you're Muslim or not so it doesn't bother me if you talk like this.

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Frogman said:


>



naked facts are hurting..??



mahatir said:


> with all due respect but you have no idea about Egypt or its people , by the way most of the clowns the MB gathered in cairo are payed 200 pounds per day for the show .
> 
> &#8235;
> 
> MB so called supporters payed for their fetar and cheering for a clown they do not even know who he is



dude, no matter be an anti MB, but how a serious man like you resort to so cheap anti MB media craps to dodge the facts

at present, 1$=7 EGP
200 EGP/7$=28.5 USD paid per person dayly??....yesterday over than 2.000.000 people were square...2.000.000x28.5=57.000.000 USD..(57 millions- $)

if MB who cant afford buy basic food stuffs for his supporters paid everyday 57.000.000-$ for 20 days it makes 11.4 Billions-$. almost equal money that GCCs bribed...

good analysis..

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## Falcon29

Egyptian army helicopter briefly enters Gaza airspace | Reuters

(Reuters) - An Egyptian military helicopter briefly crossed into Israeli-controlled airspace over the Gaza Strip on Friday, in a possible sign of increased security jitters a week after Egypt's army toppled President Mohamed Mursi.

Security sources in Egypt and Israel both described the flyover as a navigational error, but it came shortly after militants killed an Egyptian policeman and wounded a second in an attack on checkpoints in the lawless Sinai Peninsula across the border from the Palestinian Gaza Strip.

Separately, Egyptian authorities arrested three Palestinian gunmen on Friday during "an attempt to attack vital sites in Sinai", Egyptian state media reported.

"The helicopter mistakenly crossed into Gazan airspace and immediately returned to Egypt," the Israeli security source said. Witnesses in Gaza said it stayed on their side of the border *for about 10 minutes* before returning.

...............

First of all, like I always do, I want to point out the double standard Rueters has, when israel constantly enters Gaza's airspace it isn't reported. Not even in this fashion. During my visit here in Gaza I've seen dozens of airspace violations over Gaza by israel. These aren't even the drones, just the fighter jets.

Second of all, I think this is lousy behavior by the Egyptian military. Who can't solve it's national security situation and seeks to divert attention from their own rebels and move attention towards Hamas so they egyptian people can be fooled and relieved. Hamas is not acting against their national security and targeting Egyptian military posts. Those are people in Egypt.

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## MooshMoosh

Hazzy997 said:


> Egyptian army helicopter briefly enters Gaza airspace | Reuters
> 
> (Reuters) - An Egyptian military helicopter briefly crossed into Israeli-controlled airspace over the Gaza Strip on Friday, in a possible sign of increased security jitters a week after Egypt's army toppled President Mohamed Mursi.
> 
> Security sources in Egypt and Israel both described the flyover as a navigational error, but it came shortly after militants killed an Egyptian policeman and wounded a second in an attack on checkpoints in the lawless Sinai Peninsula across the border from the Palestinian Gaza Strip.
> 
> Separately, Egyptian authorities arrested three Palestinian gunmen on Friday during "an attempt to attack vital sites in Sinai", Egyptian state media reported.
> 
> "The helicopter mistakenly crossed into Gazan airspace and immediately returned to Egypt," the Israeli security source said. Witnesses in Gaza said it stayed on their side of the border *for about 10 minutes* before returning.
> 
> ...............
> 
> First of all, like I always do, I want to point out the double standard Rueters has, when israel constantly enters Gaza's airspace it isn't reported. Not even in this fashion. During my visit here in Gaza I've seen dozens of airspace violations over Gaza by israel. These aren't even the drones, just the fighter jets.
> 
> Second of all, I think this is lousy behavior by the Egyptian military. Who can't solve it's national security situation and seeks to divert attention from their own rebels and move attention towards Hamas so they egyptian people can be fooled and relieved. Hamas is not acting against their national security and targeting Egyptian military posts. Those are people in Egypt.



1) Reuturs is a Jewish owned media just like all the Western medias. They never report the crimes in Israel but when they do, they will always add the word "hamas terrorist organisation" so don't listen to Western zionist ultra propagandist media machine when they talk about Palestine or something you know that is not true.

2) More attention and relieved? Hamas is popular to the Muslim countries. Hamas not in Sinai but who is really in Sinai?

Egypt army is fighting...





This....

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## Battle of Kursk

> First of all, like I always do, I want to point out the double standard Rueters has, when israel constantly enters Gaza's airspace it isn't reported. Not even in this fashion. During my visit here in Gaza I've seen dozens of airspace violations over Gaza by israel.



It's not a violation since Gaza is not a state. and in any case they are in conflict.
This makes the news because it is unusual. Just like the almost daily Molotov cocktails thrown against Jewish civilians in Judea and Samaria are not reported, just like when rockets are fired against Israel daily (not at the moment) most are not reported, the same happens here. To be fair, when there is a conflict not every offensive operation by Israel in Gaza is reported either.

The pilot is said to have made a mistake. 



> Reuturs is a Jewish owned media just like all the Western medias.



They are so pro Israel that in the 2006 war in Lebanon they were found guilty of faking photos by Photoshop to support Hezballah.
I am sure you are convinced Al Jazeera and Fars are more fair.


----------



## mahatir

Battle of Kursk said:


> It's not a violation since Gaza is not a state. and in any case they are in conflict.
> This makes the news because it is unusual. Just like the almost daily Molotov cocktails thrown against Jewish civilians in Judea and Samaria are not reported, just like when rockets are fired against Israel daily (not at the moment) most are not reported, the same happens here. To be fair, when there is a conflict not every offensive operation by Israel in Gaza is reported either.
> 
> The pilot is said to have made a mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> They are so pro Israel that in the 2006 war in Lebanon they were found guilty of faking photos by Photoshop to support Hezballah.
> I am sure you are convinced Al Jazeera and Fars are more fair.



he is one of those conspiracy theorists who blames everything on Israel .


----------



## Jihad_

Pre-planned coup.




> In the months before the military ousted President Mohammed Morsi, Egypt's top generals met regularly with opposition leaders, often at the Navy Officers' Club nestled on the Nile.
> 
> The message: If the opposition could put enough protesters in the streets, the military would step in&#8212;and forcibly remove the president.
> 
> "It was a simple question the opposition put to the military," said Ahmed Samih, who is close to several opposition attendees. "Will you be with us again?" The military said it would. Others familiar with the meetings described them similarly.



In Egypt, the 'Deep State' Rises Again - WSJ.com


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## Frogman

> naked facts are hurting..??



You mean making stuff up as you go along blindly through your life and displaying an unparallelled level of ignorance.

The *only* military aid the Egyptian armed forces receives is from the United States of America. This aid is directly rerouted into the American military industrial complex producing armament for the Egyptian armed forces and isn't used to *buy rations* for over 400,000 soldiers.

Meanwhile in real life the military has spread over 1million Ramadan boxes with food and necessities to over a million needy Egyptians and continues to provide food at mosques for Egyptians in this holy month.


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## Kompromat

Mursi under "criminal investigation"...it keeps getting dirty!


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## Frogman

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Dude, this is too much, I can't take it
> 
> BTW, what are you guys going to do with Morsi? Will they keep him under house arrest for a month or so?



Morsi will be under house arrest I believe until things settle down and then he can either be put on trail for inciting violence and spying (one of the cases put on him it may stick it may not).



> a7a ya3ny mesh bas leek fetar bebalash , kaman bel mozza , dah a5er 7alawa , mesh na2es 3'eer el 7asheesh wel maza



But what if you want to go for an hour would you have to pay 40 pounds or wait your turn again.



> talama fe 7odood el shar3eya mafeesh moshkela .



Ya3am de maskhara.



> Mursi under "criminal investigation"...it keeps getting dirty!



For inciting violence and reporting to a foreign nation (basically spying). I think the first one will stick the second one not so sure.



This is for all of you who think Alikhwan are anti-American. Calling for America to "free" them.


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## Yzd Khalifa

@Frogman 

Pathetic is the only word that I could think of.

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## Frogman

A military which protected and protects the will of the people. For those who dont understand Arabic the political side of the video maybe lost to you nonetheless there's some sweet military footage.

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## BATMAN

US seeks Mursi release


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## Frogman

BATMAN said:


> US seeks Mursi release



Official Egyptian response:

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## BLACKEAGLE

*Foreign Minister meets interim Egyptian president*






[7/14/2013 6:59:40 PM]
CAIRO (Petra) &#8211; Minister of Foreign Affairs and Expatriate Affairs Nasser Judeh conveyed the greetings of His Majesty King Abdullah II and his wishes of progress and prosperity to the Egyptian people.

At a meeting in Cairo with Egyptian Interim President Adly Mansour, Judeh voiced the hope that Egypt will continue to play its historical and pivotal role at the regional and international level.

The minister reiterated Jordan's support to Egypt to overcome the current circumstances, safeguard its security and stability, and realize the aspirations of the Egyptian people for a prosperous future.

Judeh also discussed Jordanian-Egyptian ties with the Egyptian interim president, adding that Jordan was keen build closer relations in the interest of both the peoples.

The Egyptian president appreciated Jordan's support to Egypt and its people at all times and said his country valued King Abdullah's efforts to bring about peace and stability in the region.

The foreign minister also met with Arab League Secretary General Nabil Elaraby and discussed the latest developments in the Middle East, besides efforts to resume peace negotiations between the Palestinians and Israelis.

Talks also covered the situation in Syria and the need to bring the ongoing violence to an end by arriving at a political solution to the Syrian crisis that meets the legitimate aspirations of the Syrian people and preserves Syria's unity.

Foreign Minister meets interim Egyptian president | Main News | Ammon News

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## BLACKEAGLE

So, it's a terror group..

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## Mahmoud_EGY




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## Yzd Khalifa

@Frogman @MooshMoosh @Arabian Legend @JUBA @BLACKEAGLE @tyrant @Doritos11 @Mahmoud_EGY 
 @agentny17 @al-Hasani

Guys! Have you seen this? 

&#x202b;

&#x202b;

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## babajees

7 more ppl killed by Army lovers + 200 injured.. BBC

Edit: Sorry, the picture I posted was a young girl killed by regime forces in Syria, it had nothing to do with Egypt. Apologies


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## Frogman

babajees said:


> 7 more ppl killed by Army lovers + 200 injured.. BBC
> 
> Meanwhile, Pic of a dangerous terrorist killed by the American sponsered heroes (egypt army)



Syria........

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## kalu_miah

Disputes between Morsi, military led to Egypt coup

*Disputes between Morsi, military led to Egypt coup*

HAMZA HENDAWI 50 minutes ago

CAIRO (AP)  The head of Egypt's military, Gen. Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi, sat with a polite smile in the front row listening to President Mohammed Morsi give a 2 1/2-hour speech defending his year in office. El-Sissi even clapped lightly as the audience of Morsi supporters broke into cheers.

It was a calculating display of cool by an army general plotting the overthrow of his commander in chief. Just over a week later, el-Sissi slid in the knife, announcing Morsi's ouster on state TV on July 3 as troops took the Islamist leader into custody.

The move was the culmination of nearly a year of acrimonious relations between el-Sissi and Egypt's first freely elected  and first civilian  president.

A series of interviews by The Associated Press with defense, security and intelligence officials paint a picture of a president who intended to flex his civilian authority as supreme commander of the armed forces, issuing orders to el-Sissi. In turn, the military chief believed Morsi was leading the country into turmoil and repeatedly challenged him, defying his orders in at least two cases.

The degree of their differences suggests that the military had been planning for months to take greater control of the political reins in Egypt. When an activist group named Tamarod began a campaign to oust Morsi, building up to protests by millions nationwide that began June 30, it appears to have provided a golden opportunity for el-Sissi to get rid of the president. The military helped Tamarod from early on, communicating with it through third parties, according to the officials.

The reason, the officials said, was because of profound policy differences with Morsi. El-Sissi saw him as dangerously mismanaging a wave of protests early in the year that saw dozens killed by security forces. More significantly, however, the military also worried that Morsi was giving a free hand to Islamic militants in the Sinai Peninsula, ordering el-Sissi to stop crackdowns on jihadis who had killed Egyptian soldiers and were escalating a campaign of violence.

"I don't want Muslims to shed the blood of fellow Muslims," Morsi told el-Sissi in ordering a halt to a planned offensive in November, retired army Gen. Sameh Seif el-Yazl told AP. Seif el-Yazl remains close to the military and sometimes appears with el-Sissi at public events.

And at root, the military establishment has historically had little tolerance for the Muslim Brotherhood, Morsi's Islamist group. The military leadership has long held the conviction that the group puts its regional Islamist ambitions above Egypt's security interests.

Its alliances with Gaza's Hamas rulers and other Islamist groups alarmed the military, which believed Gaza militants were involved in Sinai violence. The officials said the military leadership also believed the Brotherhood was trying to co-opt commanders to turn against el-Sissi.

The military has been the most powerful institution in Egypt since officers staged a 1952 coup that toppled the monarchy. Except for Morsi, the military has since given Egypt all of its presidents and maintained a powerful influence over policy. Having a civilian leader over the military was entirely new for the country.

The Brotherhood accuses el-Sissi of turning against them and carrying out a coup to wreck democracy. Since being deposed, Morsi is detained by the military at an undisclosed Defense Ministry facility.

The Brotherhood had believed that el-Sissi was sympathetic with their Islamist agenda. A senior Brotherhood official told AP that Morsi installed el-Sissi, then the head of military intelligence, as defense minister and head of the armed forces in August 2012 in part because he had been the contact man between the Brotherhood and the military junta that ruled Egypt for nearly 17 months after the February 2011 fall of autocrat Hosni Mubarak.

El-Sissi spoke of his differences with Morsi for the first time Sunday when he addressed military officers in a meeting that was partially televised.

"I don't want to count to you the number of times that the armed forces showed its reservations on many actions and measures that came as a surprise," el-Sissi said.

Along with the Brotherhood official, eight current senior officials in the military, military intelligence and Interior Ministry  including a top army commander and an officer from el-Sissi's inner circle  spoke to AP on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the events between Morsi and the military.

They recounted tense conversations and meetings with a frustrated Morsi frequently reminding the military chief of his rank as supreme commander.

As early as April, the army drew up a contingency plan to assert control of the nation by taking charge of security if street violence escalated out of Morsi's control, the intelligence and defense officials said.

The plan did not entail removing Morsi. Instead, it was an expansion of the role the army took in the Suez Canal city of Port Said, which by that time had seen months of anti-Morsi protests that evolved into an outright revolt. More than 40 protesters had been killed by police there, as Morsi publicly urged security forces to deal strongly with the protests. The military was deployed in the city, largely welcomed by the residents, who continued protests and strikes.

The military officials said Morsi had ordered the army to get tougher on protesters, but el-Sissi refused, telling him, "The people have demands."

About this time, in April and May, el-Sissi's officials met with commanders of the Republican Guard, the army branch that protects the president. The commanders told them that Morsi's aides were trying to co-opt Guard officers and senior army officers in a move to replace el-Sissi, according to the official in the military chief's staff.

Each side's suspicions were fueled by leaks in the press with anonymous Brotherhood and military officials quoted as criticizing the other. In meetings, Morsi assured el-Sissi that he had no intention of firing him, saying, "These are just rumors," the defense officials said. El-Sissi told Morsi that the military leaks were merely "newspaper talk."

In April, the youth activists of Tamarod, Arabic for "Rebel," began collecting signatures on a petition for Morsi to step down. When it said it had 2 million signatures in mid-May, the military took an interest and worked through third parties that connected the group with liberal and opposition-linked businessmen who would bank it, said two high-ranking Interior Ministry officials.

The campaign claimed in June to have more than 20 million signatures  though the number has never been independently confirmed  and called for mass rallies against Morsi to start June 30, the anniversary of his inauguration. El-Sissi issued a statement saying the armed forces would intervene to stop any violence at the protests, particularly to stop Morsi supporters from attacking the rallies. He gave the two sides a week to resolve their differences  with the deadline being June 30.

The protection plan appeared to be an evolution of the original contingency plan set up in April, and it was widely seen as a show of support for the protesters.

Morsi summoned el-Sissi to explain his statement, and the general reassured him that "this was designed to calm people down," the Brotherhood official said.

"He did not show his true intentions until July 1 when he gave the president a 48-hour ultimatum," said the official, referring to a second ultimatum from el-Sissi that explicitly demanded Morsi find a solution with his opponents or the military would intervene.

Soon after the first deadline was issued, two Morsi aides called the commander of the 2nd Field Army, Maj. Gen. Ahmed Wasfi, based in the Suez Canal region, and sounded him out about installing him in el-Sissi's place, the military officials said. Wasfi immediately informed el-Sissi of the call, they said.

Seif el-Yazl and the military and intelligence officials said security in the strategic Sinai Peninsula bordering Gaza and Israel was at the heart of the differences. The region plunged into lawlessness after Mubarak's ouster, with Islamic militants gaining increasing power. Soon after Morsi took office, militants killed 16 Egyptian soldiers in a single attack and smaller-scale shootings on security forces mounted. In May, six policemen and a soldier were kidnapped.

Morsi in each case vowed action, but he and his aides also spoke publicly on the need for restraint and dialogue. At one point, he publicly acknowledged holding the military back from a raid to prevent civilian casualties, and he also spoke of the need not to harm the kidnappers as well as the captives. Morsi's ultraconservative Salafi allies mediated with militant groups to get them to halt violence, although attacks continued.

In November, Morsi ordered el-Sissi to halt a planned Sinai offensive a day before it was to be launched, and el-Sissi complied, Self el-Yazl said. In May, the kidnappers released their captives after a week, apparently after mediation. Morsi vowed publicly to track them down, but the military officials said the president ordered el-Sissi to pull his forces out of the area where they were believed to be. Again, the military complied. The kidnappers have not been caught.

The security and intelligence officials said they reported to Morsi about a rising number of foreign jihadis, including Palestinians, entering Sinai. The military identified Gazan militants involved in the killing of the 16 soldiers, but Morsi rejected a request by el-Sissi that he ask Hamas to hand them over for trial, the officials said. Hamas has repeatedly denied any role in the killings.

Morsi instead ordered el-Sissi to meet with Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal to discuss the issue. El-Sissi refused, because of the military's longtime view of Hamas as a threat, said the officials.

The military saw the policy of dialogue as being rooted in the Brotherhood's sympathy to others in the Islamist movement, even ones engaged in violence. Another incident deepened the military's belief that Morsi was more interested in a regional Islamist agenda than what the army saw as Egypt's interests.

During an April visit to Sudan, which has an Islamist government, Morsi showed flexibility over the fate of a border region claimed by both countries. After Morsi's return, el-Sissi sent his chief of staff to Khartoum to "make it crystal clear to the Sudanese that the Egyptian armed forces will never surrender" the territory, one defense official said.

=================================================

And then there was this interesting comment among all other comments:

Ahmed Alireza 37 minutes ago 2 3 
*naaaaaaaaah....the coup had nothing to do with islam nor morsis policies....the real reason was the morsi corruption files held by morsi implicating the military in deep curruption and illegal accumulated wealth during 30 yrs of mubaraks rule....the military officers were swcared of being exposed....this is the whole syory/....all else is just bs*


----------



## agentny17

Yzd Khalifa said:


> @Frogman @MooshMoosh @Arabian Legend @JUBA @BLACKEAGLE @tyrant @Doritos11 @Mahmoud_EGY
> 
> @agentny17 @al-Hasani
> 
> Guys! Have you seen this?
> 
> &#8235;
> 
> &#8235;



Really stupid and disrespectful!!

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## Yzd Khalifa

agentny17 said:


> Really stupid and disrespectful!!



Of course it's. I'm just disappointed by the way those Anchors behaved, many Egyptians human-right centers condemned such behavior - it's in the first clip anyway -

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## al-Hasani

agentny17 said:


> Really stupid and disrespectful!!



How is the situation in Egypt on the ground today? I hear from my Egyptian friends and fellow students that the situation is quite tense in Cairo depending on the neighborhood. I really hope that you can short out your differences and that somehow as big a consensus can be reached so peace and prosperity can return to Egypt.

Both sides have committed wrong-doings and I truly hope that they will both learn something from this in the future. That is not the way to solve problems.

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## BLACKEAGLE

*Jordanian king arrives in Cairo*







AFP
Jordan&#8217;s King Abdullah II visited Cairo briefly on Saturday in the first visit by a head of state to Egypt since its July 3 coup, state media reported.

The monarch had been among the first leaders to congratulate Egyptians after the army overthrew Islamist president Mohamed Mursi following mass protests calling for him to resign.

Abdullah, who faces challenges at home from Islamists, was met at the airport by military-backed interim prime minister Hazem al-Beblawi, the official MENA news agency reported.

He left several hours later, an airport official said.

Both Jordan and Egypt have been key mediators between Israel and the Palestinians, whom the United States says have agreed to lay the groundwork to resume peace negotiations.

Abdullah was likely to have discussed the renewed Middle East peace talks process with Egypt.

But his visit may also have been aimed at conferring legitimacy on the new military-installed administration, which is fighting a public relations war abroad to burnish its credentials as a legitimate government.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...first-head-of-state-after-coup-says-MENA.html

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## Falcon29

15 Egyptian soldiers killed in road accident

CAIRO (AP) &#8212; An Egyptian security official says an army bus has crashed into a truck on the country's Mediterranean coast highway, killing 15 soldiers.

The official said another 40 were injured in the Sunday morning accident. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the press.

..........


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## Yzd Khalifa

Good move by him, even though Jordan is on a state of alert. 


BLACKEAGLE said:


> *Jordanian king arrives in Cairo*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AFP
> Jordan&#8217;s King Abdullah II visited Cairo briefly on Saturday in the first visit by a head of state to Egypt since its July 3 coup, state media reported.
> 
> The monarch had been among the first leaders to congratulate Egyptians after the army overthrew Islamist president Mohamed Mursi following mass protests calling for him to resign.
> 
> Abdullah, who faces challenges at home from Islamists, was met at the airport by military-backed interim prime minister Hazem al-Beblawi, the official MENA news agency reported.
> 
> He left several hours later, an airport official said.
> 
> Both Jordan and Egypt have been key mediators between Israel and the Palestinians, whom the United States says have agreed to lay the groundwork to resume peace negotiations.
> 
> Abdullah was likely to have discussed the renewed Middle East peace talks process with Egypt.
> 
> But his visit may also have been aimed at conferring legitimacy on the new military-installed administration, which is fighting a public relations war abroad to burnish its credentials as a legitimate government.
> 
> http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...first-head-of-state-after-coup-says-MENA.html

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## BLACKEAGLE



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## Jihad_

BLACKEAGLE said:


>



Disgusting.

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## Syrian Lion

*Morsi's Minister Filmed Beating an 11-Year-Old Boy in a Pro-Morsi Demonstration in Cairo
*

Yahya Hamid, a Muslim Brotherhood member and minister in Morsi's cabinet, was filmed beating an 11-year-old boy called Ahmad Osama in a pro-Morsi demonstration in Cairo as the kid said: "To hell with Morsi" after seeing how the Muslim Brotherhood was prepared to destroy Egypt in order to reinstate Morsi as president.





v

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## Syrian Lion

*Muslim Brotherhood Wanted Egypt's Break-Up for Israel with a "Free Army", Idriss in Israel
*

F$A terrorists leader was in Israel asking for weapons...


In a televised interview, Nabil Naim, who is a former leader of the Islamic Jihadist movement in Egypt and a once close companion of current al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri alongside whom he fought in the Afghan-Russian war in Afghanistan, says that the Muslim Brotherhood regional organization had announced in Turkey the formation of a "Free Army" in Egypt, similar to the one in Syria fighting against the government. He also stated that the goal is to break up the country and weaken it as part of an Israeli plan called "the Clean Collar" that targeted three countries: Iraq, Syria, and Egypt. However, the military intervention on June 30th after a large popular revolution prevented Egypt from going down the same road as Syria.

He also said that the current head of the "Free Syrian Army" (FSA) Salim Idriss was in Israel a few days ago asking for weapons


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## AUz

Yzd Khalifa said:


> They deal with our sworn enemy, therefore, we can't trust them, period. However, Morsi is an ex-MB member as such, he doesn't raise much of a concern to us.
> 
> I wouldn't call it a fear though but rather a concern.



What do you mean they 'deal' with your sworn enemy? Pakistan also 'deals' with Iran, so do India, and rest of the world.

Just say it...Muslim Brotherhood demands Muslims to choose their leadership..they want good leadership to come on top...useless societies ruled by useless kings don't like MB...

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## Yzd Khalifa

MB clashes with anti-Morsi protesters

&#x202b;


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## Yzd Khalifa

@500 

I have a question for you if I may ask please, how concerned are you about the recent development that's taking place in Sinai? Do you think that the Egyptian armed forces will clean it up soon?


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## Ceylal

Poor Egypt, first visitor...a faggot...this does not bode well

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## Yzd Khalifa

back


Ceylal said:


> Poor Egypt, first visitor...a faggot...this does not bode well



That's life!

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## Ceylal

babajees said:


> 7 *more ppl killed by Army lovers* + 200 injured.. BBC


Good for the army, they are getting the hang of it...A good brother, is a brother with a bullet between the eyebrows.

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## anonymus

Ceylal said:


> Poor Egypt, first visitor...a faggot...this does not bode well


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## 500

Yzd Khalifa said:


> @500
> 
> I have a question for you if I may ask please, how concerned are you about the recent development that's taking place in Sinai? Do you think that the Egyptian armed forces will clean it up soon?


I hope they succeed. Its in our interests.


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## Yzd Khalifa

500 said:


> I hope they succeed. Its in our interests.



Yes, I think it's a mutual interest to both sides.


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## Ceylal

500 said:


> I hope they succeed. *Its in our interests*.



Let them in to stay! Each time they send their troops, you start screaming like a scared virgin.


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## 500

Ceylal said:


> Let them in to stay! Each time they send their troops, you start screaming like a scared virgin.


Only one who is screaming is u. We dont need any screams because they cant send without our approval.


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## agentny17

*Explosion at Egypt Security Building Wounds 19*

A bomb blast outside the security headquarters in one of Egypt's Nile Delta cities wounded 19 people, security officials said early Wednesday, raising fears of deteriorating security after President Mohammed Morsi's ouster.

Eleven people have been killed in clashes between supporters and opponents of the ousted president since Monday. Most were killed in pre-dawn street battles near a pro-Morsi protest camp as the country remained mired in turmoil three weeks after the military overthrew the Islamist leader.

The bloodshed is widening the divisions between Morsi's supporters and the military-backed administration and diminishing the chances of reconciliation.

The police force, widely hated for its brutality and widespread abuses over the years, has been the target of fierce attacks in Egypt's volatile northern Sinai Peninsula.

Wednesday's bomb explosion appeared to target police in the provincial capital city of Mansoura in the delta province of Dakahliya. It raised the specter that indiscriminate attacks targeting security forces could expand beyond traditional targets in northern Sinai.

Security officials said 19 people were wounded, 13 policemen and six civilians, when the bomb outside the security directorate exploded after midnight. The city was bustling with people as is common during the Islamic month of Ramadan, when Muslims fast during the day and stay up late eating and praying.

Mideast Egypt.JPEG
Police officials exchanged gunfire with unidentified people inside a nearby abandoned building afterward. No further details were immediately available.

Presidential spokesman Ahmad al-Muslimani released a statement calling the incident an act of terrorism.

"The Mansoura terrorist incident will not waver Egypt's resolve," he said. "Egypt has triumphed in the war against terrorism before and will win again today."

Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood party condemned the attack in a statement posted on the group's website and vowed to hold peaceful protests, saying they would not be dragged into violence.

Morsi's continued detention fuels anger among his supporters. Egypt's first freely elected leader has been held incommunicado and without charge.

Running street battles that began before dawn on Tuesday were among the most intense since the crisis began on July 3.

Clashes broke out after Morsi supporters began marching from their sit-in outside the main campus of Cairo University to a nearby mosque. The protesters blocked roads, causing massive traffic jams and angering residents.

Security officials said the fighting turned deadly after masked gunmen appeared and started shooting at the Morsi supporters with live ammunition and birdshot. The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release the information, had no word on the identity of the gunmen.

The Muslim Brotherhood, however, blamed the killings on "thugs" sponsored by the Interior Ministry, a charge the Islamist group from which Morsi hails often uses to dismiss the notion that it was at odds with other segments of the population.

Khaled el-Khateeb, who heads the Health Ministry's emergency and intensive care department, said six people were killed near the pro-Morsi sit-in. The security officials put the casualty toll at seven killed and 11 injured.

Morsi's ouster followed massive street protests by millions of Egyptians demanding that the Islamist president step down. His supporters are calling for his reinstatement and insist they will not join the military-backed political process until then.

The latest violence underlines the depth of the polarization in Egypt. The deposed president's family denounced the military in a Monday news conference, accusing it of "kidnapping" him, and European diplomats urged that he be released.

In a separate development, two rights groups &#8212; Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International &#8212; urged Egyptian authorities to investigate a spate of attacks against Christians following Morsi's ouster and bring their perpetrators to account.

Mideast Egypt.JPEG
At least six Christians have been killed and scores injured in at least six provinces since July 3. The worst was in a village near the ancient city of Luxor, where four Christians were killed and three injured at the hands of a mob of Islamists. Other attacks included the shooting death of a priest in the Sinai town of el-Arish and the destruction and looting of Christian homes and stores in Minya province south of Cairo. A church was also targeted in Minya.

"A thorough, impartial and independent investigation must be conducted into the events in Luxor and the grossly inadequate response of the security forces to the attack," according to Amnesty.

"Authorities should hold accountable the people responsible for the sectarian killings and attacks on houses of worship and property, and investigate whether security forces took inadequate measures to prevent or stop the attacks," Human Rights Watch said

Explosion at Egypt Security Building Wounds 19 - ABC News

First bomb to explode in the Nile Delta in about 20 years!!


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## Doritos11

@MooshMoosh

Your brothers at work ^^

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## Shapur Zol Aktaf

Doritos11 said:


> @MooshMoosh
> 
> Your brothers at work ^^


Does MooshMoosh support this kind of terrorism in Egypt? or only when it happens in Syria and Iraq? I hope he answers this question.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

500 said:


> Only one who is screaming is u. We dont need any screams because they cant send without our approval.


if we need to send our troops to fight terrorists and you say no we will send them anyway

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## Ceylal

500 said:


> Only one who is screaming is u. We dont need any screams because they cant send without our approval.



By "you" I meant Israel...
With all the technological advantage and intelligence Israel receives continuously from the United State and NATO and despite that the Egyptian Army is kept shackled by US equipment furnished to her, Israel get the flu each time an Egyptian helmet is seen in the Sinai...If I was Egypt , I won't bother with them ....


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## Serpentine

I have a question, who is the main leader of Tamarrod movement?


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## 500

Ceylal said:


> By "you" I meant Israel...
> With all the technological advantage and intelligence Israel receives continuously from the United State and NATO and despite that the Egyptian Army is kept shackled by US equipment furnished to her, Israel get the flu each time an Egyptian helmet is seen in the Sinai...If I was Egypt , I won't bother with them ....


By you i mean you. U are only one who is whining here.


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## Frogman

Serpentine said:


> I have a question, who is the main leader of Tamarrod movement?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Badr

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## Serpentine

Frogman said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Badr



Is he a pro-Hezbollah?


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## Frogman

Serpentine said:


> Is he a pro-Hezbollah?



Hizballah was popular in Egypt as a result of the 2006 war, however, it has lost popularity with the majority of Egyptians after its actions within Lebanon and its involvement in Syria. You should probably try ask him though.


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## Serpentine

Frogman said:


> Hizballah was popular in Egypt as a result of the 2006 war, however, it has lost popularity with the majority of Egyptians after its actions within Lebanon and its involvement in Syria. You should probably try ask him though.



If only I had his Facebook account or Yahoo ID. 
Thanks btw.


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## Frogman

Serpentine said:


> If only I had his Facebook account or Yahoo ID.
> Thanks btw.



You could probably try pester Tamarods FB page until you get a response. I would send a private message instead of posting on their page, the MB's electronic legions are very active on that site. You're free to do what you want though. 

Heres the link: https://www.facebook.com/Tmrood?hc_location=stream

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## Ceylal

500 said:


> By you i mean you. U are only one who is whining here.


I am the one who's whining? I care less...But I doubt of your sincerity....You seem glued to this forum, any reason? Or it is just the recurring hizbollah nightmare?


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## islamrules

if u r in country where the regime is based on :
1 Pharaon (political autority), 2 Haman (the interior n defence minister), 3 their soldiers (the army and the police force), 4 karoun as the economic finacial power supporting the regime, 5 the Magicians of the pharaons "saharatu fir3awn" or the media people, the fitna mongers.
If the prisons are crowded with good people n if the people in charge are thieves n traitors .... there is no doubt, u r in Egypt .


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## Frogman

> if u r in country where the regime is based on :
> 1 Pharaon (political autority), 2 Haman (the interior n defence minister), 3 their soldiers (the army and the police force), 4 karoun as the economic finacial power supporting the regime, 5 the Magicians of the pharaons "saharatu fir3awn" or the media people, the fitna mongers.
> If the prisons are crowded with good people n if the people in charge are thieves n traitors .... there is no doubt, u r in Egypt .



If you can't construct sentences and have the evaluative skills of a fetus then there is no doubt that you're a retard.

Write something constructive or at least intelligent please. A little synoptic skills also wouldn't do you any harm either.

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## islamrules

Frogman said:


> If you can't construct sentences and have the evaluative skills of a fetus then there is no doubt that you're a retard.
> 
> Write something constructive or at least intelligent please. A little synoptic skills also wouldn't do you any harm either.



I think anyone who quotes al 3abdul khasser is a hopeless cause


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## BloodyPak96

Why is your "army" only shooting mb supporters then. Why do the anti-mursi protesters need to create propaganda to show mb supporters as terrorists. As far as i've seen, anti mursi protesters were raping girls in the crowds. I also saw a video of them carrying knives and guns and punching a lady in a hijab. go watch the vice documentary, I can't post links yet. It showed army shooting mb supporters for no reason at all. and in the second part at 11:13 the idiot showed a shell, claiming it was fired from the building. I guess someone forgot to tell him shells dont go with the bullet.


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## Frogman

> I think anyone who quotes al 3abdul khasser is a hopeless cause



So you can construct sentences. 



> Why is your "army" only shooting mb supporters then.



Its the nations military and there's no need for quotation marks around it. The military and security forces have killed Egyptians from both sides over the past two years (e.g Maspero and Mahammed Mahmoud events) and if it wanted to erase those who are protesting in Rab3a al3adawiya it could so easily. The military may have been complicit in the killing of innocent protestors in the Republican Guards event, however, who started the clashes is disputed and a judge lead investigation into those events may shed light or it may not. The MB aren't innocent nor is the military or the security forces.



> Why do the anti-mursi protesters need to create propaganda to show mb supporters as terrorists.



Because some are unsurprisingly. There are those who incite hatred and violence in rab3a and support the insurgency in the Sinai and in the rest of Egypt which has killed dozens of innocent Egyptians and conscripts. Those who protest peacefully have a right to do so but those who threaten Egypts national security should be dealt with according to the law.



> As far as i've seen, anti mursi protesters were raping girls in the crowds.



That's a first.

Egyptian society as a whole has a problem with sexual harassment and rape and has had this problem for quite some time.



> I also saw a video of them carrying knives and guns and punching a lady in a hijab.



We have also seen MB supporters kill a child on camera in Alexandria. Again, the right to peaceful protest must be respected but those who break the law (no matter who they support) should be dealt with accordingly.



> go watch the vice documentary, I can't post links yet. It showed army shooting mb supporters for no reason at all.



Watched it. It doesn't show the military shooting for no reason at all rather you hear shots fired whether those shots were justified is questionable. The documentary also shows MB supporters firing on the families that live in Ramsis.



> nd in the second part at 11:13 the idiot showed a shell, claiming it was fired from the building. I guess someone forgot to tell him shells dont go with the bullet.



The MB did the same thing when the Republican Guard events happened. They also showed pictures of children from Syria or did you miss that part. There's a propaganda war on both sides, however, the majority of Egyptians are against the MB and its affiliates no matter how many MB supporters die.

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## MooshMoosh

Shapur Zol Aktaf said:


> Does MooshMoosh support this kind of terrorism in Egypt? or only when it happens in Syria and Iraq? I hope he answers this question.


Stupid question; you obviously don't know what is happening in Egypt. Due to the lack of information "Nasserist" post in here and I can't post anymore post because of the excuses they will make but after Friday will show a better evidence. I can because El Sisi making it worse as he said last night, he wanted the anti protesters who are violent to show up on Friday for support against terrorism but what does he mean by that? He is referring to the million Morsi supporters which could possibly lead to a civil war. Let's see what how they'll hurt them . First of all, the seculars are killing and injuring the unnarmed pro supporters so there is tension between them even the media says "MOST" pro supporters were "KILLED". Secondly, the media stick with one side which is the anti. Thirdly, no terrorism in Egypt, the only terrorist is the Shiite army of Syria and Iraq.


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## Developereo

*Egypt military hints at crackdown*

*Cairo:* In a move that has fuelled fears of an imminent military crackdown against supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood, the head of Egypts *army called for mass demonstrations* on Friday to provide the countrys defence force with a mandate to fight violence and terrorism.

Describing Egypt as being at a crossroad, General Abdel Fattah al-Sissi re-entered the political fray and alleged some were trying to take the country down a dark tunnel.

He directly challenged the Muslim Brotherhood by asking: Do you want to rule the country or destroy it?

This does not mean that I want terrorism or violence to take place, General al-Sissi said during a speech at an air and navy graduation ceremony on Wednesday.

There is an alternative political dialogue.

But thats not how the Muslim Brotherhood received the message. One of its senior officials, Essam el-Erian, wrote on his Facebook page: Your threat will not stop the millions from continuing to gather, describing el-Sissi as a coup leader who kills women, children and those at prayer.

The general's intervention confirmed some commentators worst fears that the military was not taking a backseat in the interim government and that Dr *Mursis overthrow was indeed a military coup, not a popular revolution.*

Such is the international concern over the generals call for mass protests and the real potential for an escalation in violence, the US announced overnight it was delaying its planned delivery of four F-16 fighter jets to Egypt.

Given the current situation in Egypt, we do not believe it is appropriate to move forward at this time with the delivery of the F-16s a spokesman for the Pentagon, George Little said.

Egypt receives $US1.5 billion ($1.64 billion) per year in military aid from the US  aid that was thrown into doubt when the military stepped in on July 3 to remove Mohamed Mursi from the presidency in a move it says had the support of millions of protesters who took to the streets to demand his ouster.

Dr Mursi has not been seen since he was forced from the presidency - the army is holding him incommunicado despite international calls for his release.

The country has just endured one of its most violent periods in the past month, in which at least 12 people died and more than 100 were injured, 19 of them when a bomb was thrown at a police station in the city of Mansoura, north-east of Cairo, early on Wednesday.

Clashes between pro- and anti-Mursi supporters have intensified over the past week and there are fears that the violence can only worsen if a significant number heed General al-Sissis call to demonstrate in support of the new government, where they will inevitably cross paths with opposing protests.

Many Egyptians were extremely worried about these developments, said Mustafa el-Labbad, the director of the Al Sharq Centre for Regional and Strategic Studies.

If the military does intervene there is the risk that in such a fragile situation the tension will escalate, Dr el-Labbad told Fairfax Media.

The army is calculating that the majority of the Egyptian society is opposing the Muslim Brotherhood ... and the Brotherhood are counting on violence and confrontation to keep their movement alive with their supporters.

One of the few voices calling for calm in the past week has been Mohamed ElBaradei, the Nobel laureate, who is one of the vice-presidents in the military backed interim governments.

He urged the newly appointed justice minister to investigate the deaths of Mursi supporters.

Transitional justice and national reconciliation based on inclusiveness are only option, he wrote on Twitter.

The sooner we realise this the more lives are saved.

The Tamarod, or Rebellion, movement called on Egyptians to rally in support of the military, to officially demand the trial of [former President] Mohamed Mursi and support [the] armed forces in its coming war against terrorism.

The people and the army will fight against terrorism, its leaders wrote on their Facebook page.

The Muslim Brotherhoods Freedom and Justice Party denounced the militarys call for mass protests as a threat, and said it had at least 30 marches planned for Friday which would call for the downfall of the coup.

Meanwhile in Egypts restive North Sinai peninsula, escalating violence claimed more lives.

On Wednesday a car bomb exploded in the north Sinai peninsula, killing what the state television described as three militants near the city of El Arish.

The interim president, Adli Mansour, was meeting overnight with state officials to discuss the countrys deteriorating security situation.

The challenge is how to find a middle way, not to exclude anyone but integrate them into a new system, while still dealing with the leadership of the MB who are linked with criminal violations, Dr el-Labbad said.

You have to ensure there is a fair legal process to put the leadership before.

The national reconciliation process started by the interim government on Wednesday had little hope of succeeding in the current environment, he warned.

The Muslim Brotherhood had been asked to participate but they had so far refused.

If I were a Muslim Brotherhood member I would not sit at the table and negotiate about reconciliation, because there is a certain legitimacy lost by the ouster of the presidency.

On the other hand, you have the anti-Mursi camp who are presenting him as a despotic president, as a dictator who has lost the support of millions of Egyptians - they are acutely conscious of not replacing one dictator with another [military] dictator.

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## bdslph

even though i did not like Morsi much but he was good for Egypt
he use to pray and read Quran it is a coup he is corrupt 

come on you gave 40 years to Mubarak and you give this guy a year or so to fix Egypt

if this happens in a Democratic System then no need democracy in Syria


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## agentny17

islamrules said:


> if u r in country where the regime is based on :
> 1 Pharaon (political autority), 2 Haman (the interior n defence minister), 3 their soldiers (the army and the police force), 4 karoun as the economic finacial power supporting the regime, 5 the Magicians of the pharaons "saharatu fir3awn" or the media people, the fitna mongers.
> If the prisons are crowded with good people n if the people in charge are thieves n traitors .... there is no doubt, u r in Egypt .



Believe in fairy tales, don't you ?!!!


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## agentny17

MooshMoosh said:


> Stupid question; you obviously don't know what is happening in Egypt. Due to the lack of information "Nasserist" post in here and I can't post anymore post because of the excuses they will make but after Friday will show a better evidence. I can because El Sisi making it worse as he said last night, he wanted the anti protesters who are violent to show up on Friday for support against terrorism but what does he mean by that? He is referring to the million Morsi supporters which could possibly lead to a civil war. Let's see what how they'll hurt them . First of all, the seculars are killing and injuring the unnarmed pro supporters so there is tension between them even the media says "MOST" pro supporters were "KILLED". Secondly, the media stick with one side which is the anti. Thirdly, no terrorism in Egypt, the only terrorist is the Shiite army of Syria and Iraq.


Security forces didn't kill anybody yet, but you guys keep attacking, and killing people in Cairo, Mansoura, and Sinai and soon you will be annihilated. The people are losing their patience with your barbaric acts. Act like human beings or soon you guys will join your lovely teachers Banna, Qutob, Atta, and Bin Laden.



bdslph said:


> even though i did not like Morsi much but he was good for Egypt
> he use to pray and read Quran it is a coup he is corrupt
> 
> come on you gave 40 years to Mubarak and you give this guy a year or so to fix Egypt
> 
> if this happens in a Democratic System then no need democracy in Syria



Al Azhar Imam can read Quran better, he would make a better president!

*ROBERT FISK

Wednesday 24 July 2013
The Egyptian army wants to destroy the Muslim Brotherhood &#8211; but in many ways they are already history
Many see the Brotherhood&#8217;s defeat as the beginning of the end of the Islamist ideology*


When a general asks the people to go on the streets to show their support for the army in its battle against &#8220;violence&#8221;, it could be a very dodgy day. Tens of thousands of Muslim Brotherhood supporters remain camped across Cairo and other Egyptian cities &#8211; &#8220;terrorists&#8221; is the tired but dangerous code word that General Abdul-Fattah el-Sisi used about them yesterday &#8211; and at first reading his appeal looked like a call to the Brotherhood&#8217;s opponents to destroy what have in effect become &#8220;no-go areas&#8221; in Nasr City and Giza. The Egyptian press, ever ready to echo the general&#8217;s words, now uses &#8220;terrorism&#8221; with ever increasing promiscuity and el-Sisi&#8217;s demand for mass demonstrations in Egypt tomorrow raises some very disturbing questions.
Having been fingered for the massacre of Brotherhood members earlier this month, the army are in no mood for a repeat performance. So does General el-Sissi, self-declared Deputy prime minister, Defence minister and leader of the coup-that-wasn&#8217;t-a-coup want &#8220;the people&#8221; to do the army&#8217;s dirty work and storm into the Brotherhood&#8217;s tent encampments tomorrow? Or does he feel that the United States and Europe &#8211; who were not terribly keen on the coup-that-wasn&#8217;t-a-coup &#8211; will acknowledge the popularity of the military if millions of Egyptians return to Tahrir Square to give a further imprimatur to the army&#8217;s takeover?

El-Sisi&#8217;s talk of &#8220;terrorism&#8221; was principally referring to the daily attacks on Egyptian soldiers in the Sinai peninsula, which appear to be more the work of al-Qa&#8217;ida affiliates, smugglers and tribal leaders than any involvement by the Brotherhood. But for the moment, the existence of the Brotherhood&#8217;s camps &#8211; a ghostly mockery of the 2011 encampment that became the centre for the overthrow of Mubarak &#8211; are a constant reminder of the army&#8217;s failure to crush the movement and the Brotherhood&#8217;s continued demand to re-install Morsi. The army can bring out the people, to be sure, but what is the future of the Brotherhood itself?

Many are those who see its defeat as the beginning of the end of the Islamist &#8220;ideology&#8221;, the idea that Islam alone can right the wrongs of the world if only it was allied to political power. As Hussein Ibish, one of the most eloquent Arab columnists today, has said: &#8220;If the oldest Muslim Brotherhood party cannot maintain popular legitimacy in Egypt after only one year in office, then the ideology itself isn&#8217;t a practical model for governance anywhere.&#8221; Ibish&#8217;s line is simple: &#8220;Sunni Islamists will invariably fail in power because Islam is a religion and not a political ideology.&#8221;

It&#8217;s a bright idea, but even in the Islamic Republic of Iran &#8211; Shia, to be true &#8211; the opposition doesn&#8217;t want to destroy the Muslim foundations of their state. And the Saudi monarchy, constructed on the twin pillars of wahabism and the American dollar, is not going to deny its role as protector of the Two Holy Places. And after all, it&#8217;s not many centuries ago that the people of Europe regarded themselves as citizens of a place called &#8220;Christendom&#8221;. However politics develops, the church and the mosque and the synagogue have a habit of taking sides in national debates. The division of church and state &#8211; in France, for example &#8211; seems a very unnatural schism when you arrive in the Muslim world.

The reason is clear: Muslims &#8211; unlike the world of &#8220;Christendom&#8221; &#8211; have not lost their faith. This has in some way to be represented in the nations in which Muslims live. The challenge is whether slogans like that of the Brotherhood &#8211; &#8220;Islam has the answers&#8221; &#8211; really work. The &#8220;interim&#8221; Egyptian government, for example, has just discovered that Morsi&#8217;s administration underestimated the import of wheat necessary to sustain the population. The Koran cannot be eaten. Bread can.

These troubling equations are ever-present in the Muslim world. Many is the time I have woken in Cairo to read a diatribe in the Egyptian press about the sins of the US &#8211; often well-argued and absolutely true &#8211; but on travelling across the Nile, I have in the past found queues of Egyptians outside the US embassy, not protesting but waiting patiently in the oven-like heat. The message is obvious. The Koran is an important document. But so is a green card.

Religion is fine if we are talking about faith and values, but not so useful if we are discussing what Ibish calls &#8220;the detailed, technical problems of governance.&#8221; That, at least, is the story we are being fed by the Egyptian army and its supporters; that once Morsi picked up his 51 per cent of the presidential vote, he cared less about running Egypt than he did about empowering the Brotherhood itself. The Islamist &#8220;constitution&#8221; was to be proof of Muslim rule rather than Egyptian rule. And this led to further mistakes. Hence he could visit Muslims who had suffered from food poisoning, for example, but fail to visit the Coptic pope when Christians had been shot dead in the streets.

Ibish sniffs what he calls &#8220;a post-Islamist brand of politics in the Arab world&#8221;. I&#8217;m not so sure he&#8217;s right. When Mohamed Khatemi became president of Iran &#8211; a genuinely honourable man (one of the very few in the Middle East) &#8211; he talked of an Islam that would produce a &#8220;civil society&#8221;. Only America&#8217;s refusal to tolerate him brought us the dunderhead Ahmedinejad. The problem, I fear, is that the alternative to Islam as an ideology &#8211; which it is not &#8211; will turn out to be capitalism and superpower politics which will go on supporting corruption in Saudi Arabia and generals who call on people to demonstrate for armies which have staged coups that we cannot admit ever happened. And to encourage the use of that corrosive word &#8211; &#8220;terrorism&#8221;.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ny-ways-they-are-already-history-8730755.html

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## Mahmoud_EGY

islamrules said:


> if u r in country where the regime is based on :
> 1 Pharaon (political autority), 2 Haman (the interior n defence minister), 3 their soldiers (the army and the police force), 4 karoun as the economic finacial power supporting the regime, 5 the Magicians of the pharaons "saharatu fir3awn" or the media people, the fitna mongers.
> If the prisons are crowded with good people n if the people in charge are thieves n traitors .... there is no doubt, u r in Egypt .


what age do you live in ?


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## hussain0216

General its not a coup sissi has called a mass demonstration of all the idiot liberal thieves

All Muslims of the world should oppose the current state of Egypt, and support the Muslim brotherhood in standing up for democracy and legitimacy


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## agentny17

hussain0216 said:


> General its not a coup sissi has called a mass demonstration of all the idiot liberal thieves
> 
> All Muslims of the world should oppose the current state of Egypt, and support the Muslim brotherhood in standing up for democracy and legitimacy


Muslim Brotherhood and democracy, hmmmm ?? You forgot to mention human rights.

If you want an Islamic state, why live with the infidels in GB ?!! Go back to your country and establish and Islamic state, don't force it on us.

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## J dud

agentny17 said:


> Security forces didn't kill anybody yet, but you guys keep attacking, and killing people in Cairo, Mansoura, and Sinai and *soon you will be annihilated*.


 
you want to turn egypt into syria ................... anyways its because of a egyptian militaries tolerance ,the country has not dissolved into civil-war .. the army should keep their cool ..any wrong move could ruin egypt 

i dont like MB but i think mb guys has the right to be pissed ...as their president has been ousted by a military coup before he could finish his term ...........

egyptian military should hold new elections as soon as possible.. this is the only way to solve the mess in egypt.....the longer the military stays in power the more complicated the things will get


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## hussain0216

A Muslim can implement and spread islam anywhere in the world

You have destroyed democracy in Egypt and stolen power through the use of the mob and force

It is vital that the Muslims of the world boycott Egypt and put it under immense pressure, governing Egypt must be made impossible via internal and external pressure so that the government breaks

It is vital that the Muslim brotherhood rejects the fake and illegitimate political process as to keep the pressure on the government


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## agentny17

J dud said:


> you want to turn egypt into syria ................... anyways its because of a egyptian militaries tolerance ,the country has not dissolved into civil-war .. the army should keep their cool ..any wrong move could ruin egypt
> 
> i dont like MB but i think mb guys has the right to be pissed ...as their president has been ousted by a military coup before he could finish his term ...........
> 
> egyptian military should hold new elections as soon as possible.. this is the only way to solve the mess in egypt.....the longer the military stays in power the more complicated the things will get



Egypt will not turn into Syria, the Muslim Brotherhood would be annihilated by the people and security forces in 4-5 weeks. Civil war is not a possibility in Egypt. 

It was a revolution not a coup. Millions were in the streets...... Morsi lost his legitimacy the day he ordered the his supporters to surrounded the supreme court. He should have been ousted in November. 

A constitution that respects ALL human rights, checks and balance, and gives all parties the same opportunity in any coming election is our priority now. Parliamentary elections will be held in 4 months, and presidential elections will be held in 6 months. 6 months transition period is not a long time.



hussain0216 said:


> A Muslim can implement and spread islam anywhere in the world
> 
> You have destroyed democracy in Egypt and stolen power through the use of the mob and force
> 
> It is vital that the Muslims of the world boycott Egypt and put it under immense pressure, governing Egypt must be made impossible via internal and external pressure so that the government breaks
> 
> It is vital that the Muslim brotherhood rejects the fake and illegitimate political process as to keep the pressure on the government



Cry me a river............. You guys don't even accept democracy, let alone preach it. Your history is documented. Democracy is not just elections, otherwise they would vote on deporting your kinds from GB but the law prevents them.


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## J dud

agentny17 said:


> Muslim Brotherhood and democracy, hmmmm ?? You forgot to mention human rights.
> 
> If you want an Islamic state, why live with the infidels in GB ?!! Go back to your country and establish and Islamic state,*don't force it on us*.



and who elected MB in the first place?...ans: eyptian people.......................................
So MB is the legitimate democratic govt... 
i think you should acknowledge the fact that some of your countrymen dont want secularism to be enforced upon them


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## Frogman

J dud said:


> and who elected MB in the first place?...ans: eyptian people.......................................
> So MB is the legitimate democratic govt...
> i think you should acknowledge the fact that some of your countrymen dont want secularism to be enforced upon them




Democracy is a continuous process not an event. The day Morsi removed separation of powers he was no longer the legitimate president of Egypt.

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## agentny17

J dud said:


> and who elected MB in the first place?...ans: eyptian people.......................................
> So MB is the legitimate democratic govt...
> i think you should acknowledge the fact that some of your countrymen dont want secularism to be enforced upon them



How the hell can you enforce secularism ? If someone is free to do whatever the hell they want they are not being enforced. 

Morsi lost his legitimacy the day he ordered his supporters to surround the supreme court so the don't make their verdict. What is so hard about understanding this ?!!

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## hussain0216

You can't just remove legitimacy from an elected government with a democratic mandate

Even the constitution was pushed through after a fair referendum the people voted in

What you did was to have a coup

You're illegitimate as is your fake government and joke state


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## Frogman

> You can't just remove legitimacy from an elected government with a democratic mandate



The mandate was breached and so the unelected government and the elected president were no longer legitimate.



> Even the constitution was pushed through after a fair referendum the people voted in



The constitution was illegitimate before being put to referendum as multiple parties and religious figures resigned from the constitutional assembly in protest to how it was being run. The president then released the decree which made him the illegitimate ruler of Egypt.



> What you did was to have a coup



Without a constitutional or legal process by which a president (at the time) could be impeached the military had to intervene. Its a coup, deal with it.

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## agentny17

hussain0216 said:


> You can't just remove legitimacy from an elected government with a democratic mandate
> 
> Even the constitution was pushed through after a fair referendum the people voted in
> 
> What you did was to have a coup
> 
> You're illegitimate as is your fake government and joke state



Denial is not just a river......


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## J dud

Frogman said:


> Democracy is a continuous process not an event. The day Morsi removed separation of powers he was no longer the legitimate president of Egypt.





agentny17 said:


> Morsi lost his legitimacy the day he ordered his supporters to surround the supreme court so the don't make their verdict. What is so hard about understanding this ?!!



anyways its for you egyptians to decide ......i wont debate this matter .....................................but its my personal opinion that removing MB from the democratic process wont help egypts cause ..........it will only make MB political martyrs and pave the way for them to come to power in the future................



agentny17 said:


> How the hell can you enforce secularism ? If someone is free to do whatever the hell they want they are not being enforced.


 you can my friend...... you can ............. just a simple qus: will you accept private sharia courts in a secular egypt even though some people prefer them to normal courts.......??


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## agentny17

J dud said:


> anyways its for you egyptians to decide ......i wont debate this matter .....................................but its my personal opinion that removing MB from the democratic process wont help egypts cause ..........it will only make MB political martyrs and pave the way for them to come to power in the future................
> 
> you can my friend...... you can ............. just a simple qus: *will you accept private sharia courts in a secular egypt even though some people prefer them to normal courts.......??*


Yes i would, as long as people have right to choose if they want their trials in Sharia courts, or "normal people's" courts

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## Frogman

agentny17 said:


> Yes i would, as long as people have right to choose if they want their trials in Sharia courts, or "normal people's" courts



And I disagree with you.

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## agentny17

Frogman said:


> And I disagree with you.



Well, how i see it is, if some retard wants to get his hands cut, he is free to do so... If he/she wants to get lashed or stoned, i don't give a rat a$$... Most or all people will reject such cruel punishments, and in no time these courts will be useless.... I understand your concern though, but i am willing to compromise as long as freedom, and personal choices are respected.

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## Frogman

> Well, how i see it is, if some retard wants to get his hands cut, he is free to do so... If he/she wants to get lashed or stoned, i don't give a rat a$$... Most or all people will reject such cruel punishments, and in no time these courts will be useless.... I understand your concern though, but i am willing to compromise as long as freedom, and personal choices are respected.



Its not the concept of Sharia itself that I object. I object to having a two tier legal system, for instance in a sharia court the punishment for murder may only include lashings (or whatever) and compensation while in a civil court the punishment may be death or a life sentence. This also steps into the private sphere in which sharia courts may not report instances of domestic abuse for example to the police etc....

Having one judicial system based upon the teaching of Sharia (which arent entrenched or codified) or on modern law is the way to go. I would be against implementing so called Sharia in Egypt though.

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## agentny17

Frogman said:


> Its not the concept of Sharia itself that I object. I object to having a two tier legal system, for instance in a sharia court the punishment for murder may only include lashings (or whatever) and compensation while in a civil court the punishment may be death or a life sentence. This also steps into the private sphere in which sharia courts may not report instances of domestic abuse for example to the police etc....
> 
> Having one judicial system based upon the teaching of Sharia (which arent entrenched or codified) or on modern law is the way to go. I would be against implementing so called Sharia in Egypt though.



You raise good points.


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## agentny17

*Egypt&#8217;s Three Revolutions*

If you&#8217;re looking for any silver lining in what is happening in Egypt today, I suggest you go up 30,000 feet and look down. From that distance, the events in Egypt over the past two-and-a-half years almost make sense. Egypt has actually had three revolutions since early 2011, and when you add them all up, you can discern a message about what a majority of Egyptians are seeking.

The first revolution was the Egyptian people and the Egyptian military toppling President Hosni Mubarak and installing the former defense minister, the aging Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, as the de facto head of state. Tantawi and his colleagues proved utterly incompetent in running the nation and were replaced, via a revolutionary election, by the Muslim Brotherhood&#8217;s party, led by President Mohamed Morsi. He quickly tried to consolidate power by decapitating the military and installing Brotherhood sympathizers in important positions. His autocratic, noninclusive style and failed economic leadership frightened the Egyptian center, which teamed up last month with a new generation of military officers for a third revolution to oust Morsi and the Brotherhood.

To put it all in simpler terms: Egypt&#8217;s first revolution was to get rid of the dead hand, the second revolution was to get rid of the deadheads and the third revolution was to escape from the dead end.

The first revolution happened because a large number of mostly non-Islamist Egyptian youths grew fed up with the suffocating dead hand of the Mubarak era &#8212; a hand so dead that way too many young Egyptians felt they were living in a rigged system, where they had no chance of realizing their full potential, under a leader with no vision. After some 30 years of Mubarak&#8217;s rule and some $30 billion in American aid, roughly one-third of Egyptians still could not read or write.

The generals who replaced Mubarak, though, were deadheads not up to governing &#8212; so dead that many liberal Egyptians were ready to vote for the Muslim Brotherhood&#8217;s Morsi over a former Mubarak-era general in the June 2012 election. But Morsi proved more interested in consolidating the Brotherhood&#8217;s grip on government rather than governing himself, and he drove Egypt into a dead end &#8212; so dead that Egyptians took to the streets on June 30 and virtually begged the military to oust Morsi.

Add it all up and there is a message from the Egyptian majority: No more dead hands; we want a government that aspires to make Egypt the vanguard of the Arab world again. No more deadheads; we want a government that is run by competent people who can restore order and jobs. And no more dead ends; we want a government that will be inclusive and respect the fact that two-thirds of Egyptians are not Islamists and, though many are pious Muslims, they don&#8217;t want to live in anything close to a theocracy.

It is difficult to exaggerate how much the economy and law and order had deteriorated under President Morsi. So many Egyptians were feeling insecure that there was a run on police dogs! So many tour guides were out of work that tourists were warned to avoid the Pyramids because desperate camel drivers and postcard-sellers would swarm them. A poll this week by the Egyptian Center for Public Opinion Research found that 71 percent of Egyptians were &#8220;unsympathetic with pro-Morsi protests.&#8221;

Yes, it would have been much better had Morsi been voted out of office. But what is done is done. We need to make the best of it. The right thing for President Obama to be doing now is not only to ignore calls for cutting off economic aid to Egypt &#8212; on grounds that the last revolution amounted to a military coup. We should be trying to get everyone in the world to help this new Egyptian government succeed.

Not surprisingly, people are worried that Egypt&#8217;s military could stay in power indefinitely. It&#8217;s a danger, but I am less worried about that. The Egyptian people have been empowered. A majority of Egyptians have &#8212; three times now since 2011 &#8212; called a halt to their government&#8217;s going down the wrong path.

I am worried about something else: Egyptians defining the right path and getting a majority to follow that path. That is an entirely different kind of challenge, and I am not sure Egypt can ever get to that level of consensus. But this government offers the best hope for that. It has good people in important positions, like Finance and Foreign Affairs. It is rightly focused on a fair constitution and sustainable economic reform. Its job will be much easier if the Muslim Brotherhood can be re-integrated into politics, and its war with the military halted. But the Brotherhood also needs to accept that it messed up &#8212; badly &#8212; and that it needs to re-earn the trust of the people.

This is no time for America to be punishing Egyptians or demanding quick elections. Our job is to help the new government maximize the number of good economic decisions it makes, while steadily pressuring it to become more inclusive and making it possible for multiple political parties to form. If that happens, Egypt will have a proper foundation to hold democratic elections again. If it doesn&#8217;t happen, no number of elections will save it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/24/opinion/friedman-egypts-three-revolutions.html?_r=0


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## Syrian Lion

Prosecutor orders ousted Egypt President Morsi's arrest over Hamas links ? RT News


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## Kambojaric

J dud said:


> anyways its for you egyptians to decide ......i wont debate this matter .....................................but its my personal opinion that removing MB from the democratic process wont help egypts cause ..........it will only make MB political martyrs and pave the way for them to come to power in the future................



Agreed. I am no MB supporter, nor an Islamist but I have reservations over what the army has done in Egypt. There are two reasons for this:
1) Egypt as the biggest Arab country wields a great influence over the rest of the arab world. The idea that one can overthrow democracitally elected governments especially with the aid of the generals due to the actions of the government rather than waiting 4 years and then voting them out in the next elections sets a dangerous precedent for the rest of the region.

2) By driving the Islamists to the edge rather than incorporating them into the mainstream political system, Egypt runs the risk of turning the Islamists into extremists. The feeling that will exist amongst them is that they will not be able to hold any political influence in the country via the democratic route and so will hence resort to violence to full their political ambitions. Further by continuing to use violence and not letting them protest, the state will make them martyrs. Since the MB were voted into power a year ago by the Egyptian people, this means that a large portion of Egyptian society does have some sympathies for them. Making the MB into martyrs can have dangerous consequences for the future of this country hence.

This is just my take on what has happened in Egypt. I wish for the best for the country and hope peace returns fast to the land of the Nile. After all there is only one country in the region and one neighbour of Egypt that is benefiting from a weak Egypt.

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## islamrules

persecuting Morsi for his links with Hamas ? while declaring Mohammed Barad'i as vice president after his short visit to israel ?


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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> persecuting Morsi for his links with Hamas ? while declaring Mohammed Barad'i as vice president after his short visit to israel ?



Firstly, theres no proof that Elbaradei visited Israel. Israel also doesn't like Elbaradei due to his position on the Iranian nuclear program.

Secondly, Dr.Morsi is being investigated for his involvement with Hamas in raiding Egyptian prisons in which officers, conscripts and inmates were killed. During these raids Dr.Morsi escaped WadyAlnatroon prison along with members of the MB and its affiliates.

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## BLACKEAGLE

@agentny17 @Mahmoud_EGY

So guys, when we were going through the same experience by MB, you two were gloating, No?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle-east-africa/219425-arab-spring-reaches-jordan-2.html

Shall I gloat now?

I'm not actually, just a reminder.. Next time think before talking.

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## Ceylal

hussain0216 said:


> A Muslim can implement and spread islam anywhere in the world



Red carpet, already laid for you...start your madrassa






You have destroyed democracy in Egypt and stolen power through the use of the mob and force



> It is vital that the Muslims of the world boycott Egypt and put it under immense pressure, governing Egypt must be made impossible via internal and external pressure so that the government breaks
> 
> It is vital that the Muslim brotherhood rejects the fake and illegitimate political process as to keep the pressure on the government



*ANOTHER ABU QATADA IN THE MAKING*


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## Hussein

@Ceylal French media are saying that the assassination in Tunisia was the act of salafis : one arrested is French-Tunisian salafi
they really want to create troubles everywhere


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## BLACKEAGLE

Ceylal said:


> Red carpet, already laid for you...start your madrassa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have destroyed democracy in Egypt and stolen power through the use of the mob and force
> 
> 
> 
> *ANOTHER ABU QATADA IN THE MAKING*


Isn't Abo-Qutada in making better than being a Berber?


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## hussain0216

Muslims can and are supposed to implement and spread islam everywhere they are, their are plenty of islamic organisations, school, mosques and even madrassas here


And yes, a coup by any other name is Still a coup

This is the deep state
This is all a military plot, planned in collusion with the liberal and elite mubarak era clowns


If we tolerate and accept it, it will encourage the same type of military and strong man intervention in other Muslim countries 

We need stability, to accept and support the democratic mandate given vua free and fair elections, and to keep repeating the democratic process until you have balance in society

Nothing like this happened, the plan to cause chaos and remove the democratic government was implemented right from the start


It's important that the Muslim brothers utterly rejects the fake process and stand in the way of its legitimacy

It's equally important that the Muslims of the world stand United in the face of this constant weight around our necks that are military strong men, dictators and monarchs

Change takes time
Change brings chaos

Both the change and chaos are vital for the Muslim world

We are a sleeping giant in reality


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## Mahmoud_EGY

BLACKEAGLE said:


> @agentny17 @Mahmoud_EGY
> 
> So guys, when we were going through the same experience by MB, you two were gloating, No?
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle-east-africa/219425-arab-spring-reaches-jordan-2.html
> 
> Shall I gloat now?
> 
> I'm not actually, just a reminder.. Next time think before talking.


I have to admit i used to think that gulf countries fund and support MB and salfis i was wrong and there is no shame in saying that and like i said before who ever support Egypt after morsi is our friend and whoever support terrorists will be forever Egypt enemy

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## hussain0216

The liberal slime are attacking and besieging a mosque in Alexandria 

Shameful!!!!!!

Look at the calibre of the people supporting the coup in Egypt


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## BLACKEAGLE

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> I have to admit i used to think that gulf countries fund and support MB and salfis i was wrong and there is no shame in saying that and like i said before who ever support Egypt after morsi is our friend and whoever support terrorists will be forever Egypt enemy



You have always been wrong my friend about everything, from your support to Bashar and Iran, to enmity to GCC and FSA.


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## Syrian Lion

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> I have to admit i used to think that gulf countries fund and support MB and* salfis* i was wrong and there is no shame in saying that and like i said before who ever support Egypt after morsi is our friend and whoever support terrorists will be forever Egypt enemy



bro don't be fooled because of some money GCC gave you now, they will destroy your country, plus salfis are supported by Saudi "Arabia"... don't let the money buy your country...


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## Mahmoud_EGY

BLACKEAGLE said:


> You have always been wrong my friend about everything, from your support to Bashar and Iran, to enmity to GCC and FSA.


what i care about is my country Egypt this is all i see in the world there is one thing i am sure of i am Egyptian and i support my country by any way i can


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Syrian Lion said:


> bro don't be fooled because of some money GCC gave you now, they will destroy your country, plus salfis are supported by Saudi "Arabia"... don't let the money buy your country...


their actions are until now are good we wont need money anymore without salfis and the brotherhood Egypt will get back up soon 
the salfis wont have any future in Egypt without the brotherhood they are nothing


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## hussain0216

If you cared about Egypt you would have supported its first steps into the democratic process

You people have plunged Egypt into chaos


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## BLACKEAGLE

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> what i care about is my country Egypt this is all i see in the world there is one thing i am sure of i am Egyptian and i support my country by any way i can



Nobody cares what you think, what matters here is Egyptian official policy which pro GCC now.


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## Frogman

hussain0216 said:


> If you cared about Egypt you would have supported its first steps into the democratic process
> 
> You people have plunged Egypt into chaos

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## BLACKEAGLE

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> their actions are until now are good we wont need money anymore without salfis and the brotherhood Egypt will get back up soon
> the salfis wont have any future in Egypt without the brotherhood they are nothing



Who are you exactly to decide on behalf of Egypt that it doesn't need money? $12 bn was only a life line to bail out Egypt economy from collapse according to economists.


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## Syrian Lion

*LIVE!! Anti-Morsi rally
*
On air ? RT


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## Mahmoud_EGY

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Nobody cares what you think, what matters here is Egyptian official policy which pro GCC now.


I have a voice as Egyptian in Egypt everyone matter unlike your country our army take his orders from the Egyptian people


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## tyrant

@Frogman @Mahmoud_EGY @farag
Do you guys see a neo-nasserism in current Egypt? Why did some Egyptians raise Putin placards?


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## Mahmoud_EGY

tyrant said:


> @Frogman @Mahmoud_EGY @farag
> Do you guys see a neo-nasserism in current Egypt? Why did some Egyptians raise Putin placards?


the US supports the brotherhood so the US is Egyptian people enemy .simple



hussain0216 said:


> If you cared about Egypt you would have supported its first steps into the democratic process
> 
> You people have plunged Egypt into chaos


chaos was in morsi time everywhere if they ruled for another 3 years there would be no more Egypt

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## BLACKEAGLE

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> I have a voice as Egyptian in Egypt everyone matter unlike your country our army take his orders from the Egyptian people



Just stop being ridiculous m3afen.


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## hussain0216

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> I have a voice as Egyptian in Egypt everyone matter unlike your country our army take his orders from the Egyptian people



You mean the army manipulates the idiot public


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## Frogman

> Do you guys see a neo-nasserism in current Egypt?



I think its the only politically viable ideology for Egypt in the coming years. Egypt will be a capitalist system but the government will have to maintain its subsidies on goods and fuels and carry out socialist policies e.g begin the redistribution of wealth by setting up a welfare state. Egyptians would also want to see their nation free of international interference.



> Why did some Egyptians raise Putin placards?



After the US administration decided to delay the delivery of F-16's many analysts believed that if the US decided not to deliver or cut military aid that Russia would be there to arm the military. Russia needs an ally in the ME especially after Syria.


@BLACKEAGLE @Mahmoud_EGY

Can you please settle your differences in a civillised manner, there's no need for hostility.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

hussain0216 said:


> You mean the army manipulates the idiot public


you called millions Egyptians idiots ???and you are not 
this our country and we are free to do as we like and the brotherhood are history deal with it



BLACKEAGLE said:


> Just stop being ridiculous m3afen.


if you have something to say say it like a man


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## BLACKEAGLE

Frogman said:


> @BLACKEAGLE @Mahmoud_EGY
> 
> Can you please settle your differences in a civillised manner, there's no need for hostility.



I'm allergic to such people, if he decides what Egypt goes for then 85 million Egyptians must decide as well with their complex mosaic, veryone has his own view. All I am asking for is being realistic with simply turning on an organ called brain.


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## hussain0216

Yes, considering what egyptians have done to their country, yes, unfortunately you're idiots

Now your attacking mosques in Ramadan and your army is threatening peaceful protests

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## Doritos11

hussain0216 said:


> Yes, considering what egyptians have done to their country, yes, unfortunately you're idiots
> 
> Now your attacking mosques in Ramadan and your army is threatening peaceful protests



Army commanders > president always & anytime.

And "Pro GCC" sounds like slavery, sounds like Egypt is inferior to GCC, we rather die then admit to this slavery.


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## Frogman

hussain0216 said:


> Yes, considering what egyptians have done to their country, yes, unfortunately you're idiots
> 
> Now your attacking mosques in Ramadan and your army is threatening peaceful protests



I have a simple question for you. Why do you care?

I know why my Gazan friend cares, why my Saudi friend cares and why my Jordanian friend cares but why do you care?

And I would appreciate it if you used a the quote system to answer.

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## Falcon29

Stupid hypocritical army claims to listen to the calls of their people only when it suits them of course. Which was when they planned a coup against Morsi. Now, many of their supporters which should have an equally valued voice are having all their demands in the this so called 'democratic' approach by the army ignored and they are being threatened with violence if they don't take off the streets soon. 

Doesn't matter how many are killed from pro MB activists, they don't get mentioned. Only ones who get mentioned are Egyptian police or troops getting attacked in Sinai by their own Egyptians while the stupid army and its media propaganda wing is trying to tie Palestinians to their instability and tying Hamas to their troubled region because they left it to rot and left its people to rot. They now plan to fade attention away from the anger in their nation by moving attention towards Palestinians in their media as a way to fool people into believing there's a foreign conspiracy. 

Stupid army is also trying to claim the US supports the MB, when we know how far from the truth that is. Especially when it came to Gaza. Smuggling stayed at a high rate even though media tried reporting otherwise. 

Now lets see how much farther steps Sisi is going to take. As he only listens to people he chooses to listen to. Hopefully the Egyptian AQ can go blow up the sick person who's bringing his country to hell.


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## hussain0216

Frogman said:


> I have a simple question for you. Why do you care?
> 
> I know why my Gazan friend cares why my Saudi friend cares and why my Jordanian friend care but why do you care?
> 
> And I would appreciate it if you used a the quote system to answer.



Your attacking mosques in alexandria, you deposed of a democratic elected Muslim president

Every Muslim should stand up and oppose Egypt currently, if the military coup succeeds in Egypt then it will take the Muslim world just that much longer to shake off monarchs dictators and military strong men


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## BLACKEAGLE

Hazzy997 said:


> Stupid hypocritical army claims to listen to the calls of their people only when it suits them of course. Which was when they planned a coup against Morsi. Now, many of their supporters which should have an equally valued voice are having all their demands in the this so called 'democratic' approach by the army ignored and they are being threatened with violence if they don't take off the streets soon.
> 
> Doesn't matter how many are killed from pro MB activists, they don't get mentioned. Only ones who get mentioned are Egyptian police or troops getting attacked in Sinai by their own Egyptians while the stupid army and its media propaganda wing is trying to tie Palestinians to their instability and tying Hamas to their troubled region because they left it to rot and left its people to rot. They now plan to fade attention away from the anger in their nation by moving attention towards Palestinians in their media as a way to fool people into believing there's a foreign conspiracy.
> 
> Stupid army is also trying to claim the US supports the MB, when we know how far from the truth that is. Especially when it came to Gaza. Smuggling stayed at a high rate even though media tried reporting otherwise.
> 
> Now lets see how much farther steps Sisi is going to take. As he only listens to people he chooses to listen to. Hopefully the Egyptian AQ can go blow up the sick person who's bringing his country to hell.



Don't blame Egypt of what it's doing now, as you shouldn't blame anybody going through his hardest time, Egypt is living it's most critical period since ages. However, what's popular is not always right, and electing MB was a mistake in the first place. You have no idea how ugly things would have gone if they stayed in power, not only in Egypt but also for all of us.

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## hussain0216

It doesn't matter if the M.B were in power its the responsibility of the security forces to keep order

If the liberal tamarid crowd tried to bring down a legitimate government then arrest them

Keep the democratic process going

Wait for elections then choose your party

There is NO excuse for this egyptian mental breakdown


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## Falcon29

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Don't blame Egypt of what it's doing now, as you shouldn't blame anybody going through his hardest time, Egypt is living it's most critical period since ages. However, what's popular is not always right, and electing MB was a mistake in the first place. You have no idea how ugly things would have gone if they stayed in power, not only in Egypt but also for all of us.



Of course you're all allowed to bring about your conspiracy theories against the MB, but anyone mentions the corruption of the army oh we are just full of conspiracy. 

C'mon bro, get real. You don't know how Egypt's future would have played out and now it's over. The strongest arabic country in the world is going down and it benefits no other than the US and Israel.

The asthma of gas suddenly disappeared the same day Morsi was ousted which means it was purposely planned that way to garner support for the army against Morsi. 

I've seen Egypt's situation, I don't blame the people for not wanting the MB in power. But, those poeple I spoke to gave me reasonable explanations without exceeding their limits and without the blame game. 

Funny part is the Palestinians are being a target of the Egyptian media as of lately when almost all the rumors are just that.


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## BLACKEAGLE

hussain0216 said:


> It doesn't matter if the M.B were in power its the responsibility of the security forces to keep order
> 
> If the liberal tamarid crowd tried to bring down a legitimate government then arrest them
> 
> Keep the democratic process going
> 
> Wait for elections then choose your party
> 
> There is NO excuse for this egyptian mental breakdown



They are not liberal actually, they are simply Egyptians (mostly Muslims) who couldn't sit back and watch their country being hijacked again by a dictatorship in the name of Islam after being under a dictatorship for several decades. Egyptians elected Morsi over his promises for a better life for Egyptians, and he failed to meet them and even made it worse for Egyptians, and he just put all efforts on strengthening his grip on all Egyptian institutions like all dictators do when they get the reign.



Hazzy997 said:


> Of course you're all allowed to bring about your conspiracy theories against the MB, but anyone mentions the corruption of the army oh we are just full of conspiracy.
> 
> C'mon bro, get real. You don't know how Egypt's future would have played out and now it's over. The strongest arabic country in the world is going down and it benefits no other than the US and Israel.
> 
> The asthma of gas suddenly disappeared the same day Morsi was ousted which means it was purposely planned that way to garner support for the army against Morsi.
> 
> I've seen Egypt's situation, I don't blame the people for not wanting the MB in power. But, those poeple I spoke to gave me reasonable explanations without exceeding their limits and without the blame game.
> 
> Funny part is the Palestinians are being a target of the Egyptian media as of lately when almost all the rumors are just that.


Well, we won't agree on many issues, but I do agree on Egyptian media part, they have the basest presenters I have ever seen, they are turning Egyptian media into a joke.


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## olcayto

Anyone noticed Egypt fvcked up really bad? seems that things will only get worse. 

Funny though. 

The anti mursi protesters were protesting for the democracy in the first place. 
Now that they are in charge they deny and violate the democratic rights of the mursi supporters. 

Anyways I hope Egypt gets out of this mess very fast. The country was already hurt very bad by the previous revolution. 
This mess might push Egypt to a real hell hole.


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## Frogman

> Your attacking mosques in alexandria, you deposed of a democratic elected Muslim president



*You're

And personally I'm not attacking any mosques, I'm currently sitting in bed. Any attack on individuals or property must be dealt with according to the law. Now if the law isn't enforced justly then the institutions which carry out the law must be reformed.



> Every Muslim should stand up and oppose Egypt currently, if the military coup succeeds in Egypt then it will take the Muslim world just that much longer to shake off monarchs dictators and military strong men



This has nothing to do with Islam, this is purely political.

Egypt has no intention of exporting military coups or deposing presidents. The road map is clear, there will be parliamentary elections in the next 4-6 months and after that presidential elections.

You didn't answer the question.



> Stupid hypocritical army claims to listen to the calls of their people only when it suits them of course.



The military has been damaged by the recent events. Arguably its position under Morsi if he had continued would have been much more advantageous since he didnt have plans of bringing it under civilian oversight.

The elected president who is a representative of the people should have listened to the calls that lasted for over a year, unfortunately, he was deaf and blind.



> Which was when they planned a coup against Morsi.



Again, the coup wasn't a surprise move. The presidency had months to ensure national reconciliation and a week before the 30th and then 48 hours. The military gave Morsi every chance to respond adequately yet he took none of these chances. 



> Now, many of their supporters which should have an equally valued voice are having all their demands in the this so called 'democratic' approach by the army ignored and they are being threatened with violence if they don't take off the streets soon.



The MB and its affiliates have refused negotiations with the interim government and the interim presidency unless Morsi is returned which will never happen. The olive branch was extended they refused. There have been no threats towards those who protest peacefully.



> Doesn't matter how many are killed from pro MB activists, they don't get mentioned.


 They do.



> Only ones who get mentioned are Egyptian police or troops getting attacked in Sinai by their own Egyptians while the stupid army and its media propaganda wing is trying to tie Palestinians to their instability and tying Hamas to their troubled region because they left it to rot and left its people to rot.



The military hasn't released any statements nor has the police that implicate or accuse Hamas of any activity in the Sinai. Some Palestinians have been arrested but the military hasn't commented on whether they are part of an insurgency or not. Any accusations come from a media which is in dire need of change and reform.



> They now plan to fade attention away from the anger in their nation by moving attention towards Palestinians in their media as a way to fool people into believing there's a foreign conspiracy.



You're in the middle east everything is a conspiracy.



> Stupid army is also trying to claim the US supports the MB, when we know how far from the truth that is.



The military has said no such thing. Those accusations come from the actions of Anne Patterson and her relationship with high ranking MB members who had no official governmental position. It also comes from her comments before the 30th of June and the US administrations tentative and redundant response to the situation.



> Now lets see how much farther steps Sisi is going to take. As he only listens to people he chooses to listen to. Hopefully the Egyptian AQ can go blow up the sick person who's bringing his country to hell.



At least there arent chronic power outages anymore.


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## hussain0216

Thats democracy

Politicians lie
Politicians fail to keep promises
At the end of the term the people get to choose if a politician deserved more time or to be booted out

Considering this is egypts first democracy Morsi should have been given even more support time and leeway to make mistakes

As long as the democratic process was kept going

Then in 4 years the liberal idiot would have gotten their chance


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## Kompromat

Any pics of the protests?


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## Syrian Lion

Aeronaut said:


> Any pics of the protests?



Clashes, helicopters, tear gas as tens of thousands take to streets of Egypt ? RT News


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## Falcon29

BLACKEAGLE said:


> They are not liberal actually, they are simply Egyptians (mostly Muslims) who couldn't sit back and watch their country being hijacked again by a dictatorship in the name of Islam after being under a dictatorship for several decades. Egyptians elected Morsi over his promises for a better life for Egyptians, and he failed to meet them and even made it worse for Egyptians, and he just put all efforts on strengthening his grip on all Egyptian institutions like all dictators do when they get the reign.
> 
> 
> Well, we won't agree on many issues, but I do agree on Egyptian media part, they have the basest presenters I have ever seen, they are turning Egyptian media into a joke.



Ya right, read this. Some of it. 

Did The Egyptian Military Set Morsi Up To Fail?

I've it in my own eyes, my driver said the country is having a shortage of gas. I believed it at first. Then he pulls up to a factory looking building, speaks to a few kids. And suddenly a truck and more trucks behind the factory have gas for him. And they mostly belong to the military. They said during that time it was being used by the military. So it was being hidden on purpose. 

And he needed to at least finish his term to conclude anything on him. But Arabs aren't used to democracy and it simply doesn't work. They can't expect to see out of Morsi what they seen in Mubarak for 4 decades in his 3 years in office.


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## hussain0216

Oh no a politician didn't keep his word

If that was all it took to plunge your country into chaos then the world would be fuxed

Be patient, when election come again show your disapproval

Not stage a idiot coup


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## Frogman

hussain0216 said:


> Oh no a politician didn't keep his word
> 
> If that was all it took to plunge your country into chaos then the world would be fuxed



Giving yourself unlimited judicial and legislative powers isn't the same as breaking an electoral promise you utter imbecile.


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## agentny17

BLACKEAGLE said:


> @agentny17 @Mahmoud_EGY
> 
> So guys, when we were going through the same experience by MB, you two were gloating, No?
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle-east-africa/219425-arab-spring-reaches-jordan-2.html
> 
> Shall I gloat now?
> 
> I'm not actually, just a reminder.. Next time think before talking.



All Jordanian should unite against Islamists, after that you can seek democracy.... Don't trust Islamists, period!! If they say go left, go right without even thinking about it.

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## Falcon29

@Frogman, what arabic news sites do you follow? 

Number 1, we can argue about determining if its a coup or not. But, you make good points and we don't need to get into that. 

Second of all, no they all haven't. But they believe in a democratic process. Which means, yes he does need to complete his term. But their demands are unrealistic because of the false morals and ethics the army leadership claims to have. 

Third, yes they have accused Hamas of trying to collect intelligence on Egyptian military sites and police stations. Which isn't true at all. Also some bs report came out which said the Egyptian military killed 36 Hamas fighters and arrested another 200. Which was rebuked later by the military. But that media campaign against Hamas seems to be driven by their interests. Egyptian helicopters have also flown over Gaza last week with permission from israel and went to collect intelligence on palestinian resistance sites. Later trying to claim it was an accidental breach. But, witnesses indicated otherwise. Lots of media speculation is coming out that Hamas is actively killing Egyptian soldiers and policemen when in reality they aren't interfering with the developments there. 

It's getting ridiculous. What do you say about this slander campaign?


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## hussain0216

agentny17 said:


> All Jordanian should unite against Islamists, after that you can seek democracy.... Don't trust Islamists, period!! If they say go left, go right without even thinking about it.



You people sound like the Quresh

No wonder its so easy for you to attack mosques


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## agentny17

hussain0216 said:


> You people sound like the Quresh
> 
> No wonder its so easy for you to attack mosques



Ok .

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## Frogman

> Frogman, what arabic news sites do you follow?



Alarabiya, Aljazeera and Egyptian state TV. Mostly I follow FB pages they seem to have much more information provided in a better manner but you have to sift to find out what BS and whats not.



> Number 1, we can argue about determining if its a coup or not. But, you make good points and we don't need to get into that.



Its a coup. Any arguments about this particular point is pointless in my opinion. However the nature of the coup is what should be debated.



> Second of all, no they all haven't. But they believe in a democratic process. Which means, yes he does need to complete his term. But their demands are unrealistic because of the false morals and ethics the army leadership claims to have.



Firstly, the Egyptian people have suffered for decades before Morsi just as the Gazan people are suffering. This movement wasn't based around broken electoral promises, the Mubarak promised for three decades and yet the crowds generated against him were no where near the size of those against Morsi.

The military may have false morals and ethics but so do the MB and its affiliates. We shouldn't be naive enough to believe that there are white knights and villains or that everyone is as innocent as they claim. The MB has been called upon multiple times in the past few weeks and they refused the offers put to them (according to their own members). Morsi wont return its done



> Third, yes they have accused Hamas of trying to collect intelligence on Egyptian military sites and police stations. Which isn't true at all.


.

You need to sign up to the official spokesperson for the military's page on FB. That page is the only source that speaks on behalf of the Egyptian military and hasn't released a communique releasing such accusations.



> It's getting ridiculous. What do you say about this slander campaign?



Its frankly embarrassing. 

The Egyptian administration will have to deal with Hamas no matter how frosty the relationship becomes, ordinary Egyptians also understand that the actions of Hamas (even if wrongly accused) have nothing to do with the Palestinian people and will continue to support their plight against the occupation.

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## agentny17

*Millions Rally in Egypt, Responding to Army Call*

Called out by the army, the largest crowds in 2 1/2 years of upheaval filled Egypt's streets Friday, while ousted President Mohammed Morsi was formally placed under investigation on a host of allegations including murder and conspiracy with the Palestinian militant group Hamas.

Morsi's supporters also showed no signs of backing down, though they turned out in vastly smaller numbers. The demonstrations in Cairo remained mostly peaceful into the night, but in the city of Alexandria seven people were killed and over 100 were injured, officials said.

Late Friday night in Cairo, police fired tear gas to disperse hundreds of Morsi supporters &#8212; a possible sign of a new intolerance for marches that block city streets.

The announcement by prosecutors of the investigation against Morsi, which is likely to pave the way to a formal indictment and eventually a trial, was the first word on his legal status since he was deposed by the military July 3. Since then, the Islamist leader has been held incommunicado in a secret location.

Both sides tried to show how much public support they enjoy. But the millions who turned out for the pro-army demonstrations overwhelmed the streets in multiple cities in Egypt, including some that rarely seen any rallies since the 2011 uprising.

Throngs of people turned out in Cairo's Tahrir Square and in other cities, answering a call by army chief Gen. Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi, who urged them to give him a mandate to stop "potential terrorism" by supporters of Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood.

Portraits of the smiling el-Sissi in sunglasses dominated the crowd in Tahrir and one near the presidential palace across town. Posters with his picture were emblazoned with the words "the love of the people," and demonstrators wore small photos of him around their necks or carried a picture of his face on an Egyptian one-pound note.

Security was heavy after el-Sissi vowed to protect the rallies from attacks by rivals. Tanks guarded one entrance to Tahrir and police were stationed at other parts.

"The army is here to protect the people. They don't lie," said Ezzat Fahmi, a 38-year-old in the crowd. He said el-Sissi called the rallies "so the entire world can see that the Egyptian people don't want the Brotherhood anymore."

El-Sissi's plea came at a time when the political standoff with Morsi's supporters showed no sign of resolution. It raised speculation that he may be planning a crackdown on the toppled president's allies, who have held a sit-in outside the Rabaa al-Adawiyah Mosque in Cairo and near daily rallies elsewhere in the capital for three weeks.

The rallies have often turned violent, with more than 180 people killed this month. The Morsi supporters and opponents blame each other for the bloodshed, and people in both camps have been seen carrying weapons.

The unrest, as well as claims that Islamist groups are stockpiling weapons and escalating attacks against troops in the Sinai, were used by the country's new military-backed rulers as a basis for demanding popular support.

The interim leader, Adly Mansour, told the private TV station al-Hayat that his government seeks to include everyone, but it will not accept lawlessness, blocked roads and attacks on state institutions. He urged the pro-Morsi protesters to go home, promising they won't be pursued or arrested.

Millions Rally in Egypt, Responding to Army Call - ABC News

All Egyptians are united against terrorism.

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## agentny17

*Egypt Military Flexes Muscle Against Morsi Amid Rallies*

CAIRO &#8212; The Egyptian military stepped up its campaign against the Muslim Brotherhood on Friday, as officials announced the possibility of serious criminal charges carrying the death penalty against the ousted president, Mohamed Morsi, and hopes faded for any sort of political accommodation with the Islamist group.

The announcement came amid a vast state-orchestrated display of military power, with army helicopters hovering low over a huge throng of flag-waving, pro-military demonstrators in Tahrir Square and soldiers deploying in armored personnel carriers across the capital.

*The crowds had turned out in Cairo and other Egyptian cities in response to a call by the defense minister, Gen. Abdul-Fattah el-Sisi, for mass demonstrations he said would give him a &#8220;mandate&#8221; to fight terrorism, a phrase widely understood to mean crackdowns on the Brotherhood.*

It was another blow to the Arab world&#8217;s most prominent Islamist group, which until recently was the major political force in government, having repeatedly won elections after the country&#8217;s uprising two years ago.

The Brotherhood and a number of Western and Arab diplomats had called for the military, which has held Mr. Morsi incommunicado since his ouster three weeks ago, to release him as a good-will gesture, in hopes of brokering a compromise that would end the standoff between Islamists and the military. That now seems almost impossible, analysts say, with indications that the military is carrying out investigations geared toward a broader legal assault on the Brotherhood.

&#8220;This is a preparation for eliminating the Brotherhood,&#8221; said Emad Shahin, a political science professor at the American University in Cairo. The Brotherhood responded defiantly on Friday, with pro-Morsi marches taking place along dozens of planned routes in Cairo and other cities. The group has continued to demand Mr. Morsi&#8217;s reinstatement as a precondition for any negotiations and labeled General Sisi&#8217;s plea for street demonstrations as a call to &#8220;civil war.&#8221; Its leaders insist that they are not seeking violence. Their marches, which regularly snarl busy Cairo streets, have become increasingly confrontational.

&#8220;Our blood and souls we will sacrifice for Islam,&#8221; some pro-Morsi protesters chanted, while others chanted his name and held posters bearing his face.

In Tahrir Square, by contrast, posters bearing General Sisi&#8217;s face bobbed above the crowd, amid a mood of aggressive nationalism that has gripped much of Egypt since the military removed Mr. Morsi. Crowds began gathering early in the day, with protesters hugging the soldiers guarding the entrances to the square and posing for pictures with them. Television networks delayed daytime serials broadcast during the holy month of Ramadan, to encourage people to join the anti-Brotherhood demonstrations.

The two protest camps clashed on Friday in the port city of Alexandria, where seven people were reported dead and scores were injured. At least one person was killed in parallel street battles in Cairo, according to the Egyptian news media.

Well over 100 people have been killed in clashes between supporters and opponents of the Brotherhood in the last month, including a polarizing episode on July 8 in which soldiers and police officers fired on Brotherhood members and killed 62.

Mr. Morsi, whose face regularly appears on large banners in Islamist marches across the country, is being investigated on charges that he conspired with the militant Palestinian group Hamas in a prison escape. The charges appear to relate to his own 2011 escape from Wadi Natroun prison. He is accused of conspiring with Hamas in &#8220;hostile acts,&#8221; including the kidnapping and killing of police officers and soldiers, according to a report on the Web site of Egypt&#8217;s flagship state newspaper, Al Ahram. He was also ordered detained for an additional 15 days, the report said.

The Wadi Natroun accusations, which have been emphasized by his political opponents for some time, gained little traction until after Mr. Morsi was deposed, and they have been dismissed by many human rights advocates as political. Mr. Morsi was arrested in the final days of Mr. Mubarak&#8217;s government, and after his release, Mr. Morsi said in a television interview that he was among 30 members of his movement who were broken out of prison by men they did not know.

The announcement of the formal detention and possible charges may also be aimed at providing legal cover in the face of international pressure on the Egyptian authorities to release Mr. Morsi. On Wednesday, Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations secretary general, joined the United States, the European Union, and other bodies in expressing concern about Mr. Morsi&#8217;s unexplained detention.

In a statement, Salah al-Bardaweel, a spokesman for Hamas, denounced the accusations and challenged Egyptian prosecutors to present evidence that the group had been involved in the prison breaks. &#8220;This is an implication of Hamas into a dishonorable political battle,&#8221; he said.

Gehad el-Haddad, a spokesman for the Muslim Brotherhood, said on Friday that the threatened charges amounted to a repudiation by the military of the revolt that toppled Mr. Mubarak and &#8220;might increase the number of angry people on the ground.&#8221;

&#8220;It will only help strengthen the realization that the Mubarak state is back,&#8221; he said.

At the protests, where thousands of Brotherhood supporters and their Islamist allies have been camped out for weeks, the mood remained buoyant on Friday evening as the marches came to an end. Onstage at a sit-in near Cairo University, bearded clerics called for an Islamic state while the crowd chanted, &#8220;The people demand the return of the president.&#8221;

&#8220;I think the criminal charges were filed to push the Brotherhood to violence, so the military could then use that as an excuse to crack down,&#8221; said Soha Emera, a 43-year-old woman in a pale head scarf, standing near the stage. &#8220;But they have stayed peaceful. Look what happened today: it was other people attacking the Brotherhood.&#8221;

In Tahrir Square, a stronghold for Mr. Morsi&#8217;s opponents for weeks, many in the crowd seemed heartened by news of the formal detention and legal accusations.

&#8220;Morsi is nothing but a criminal, and the Egyptian people will be victorious,&#8221; said Ibrahim Abdelrahman, a 60-year-old retiree, as he waved an Egyptian flag. &#8220;The people, the army, the police: we are all one hand.&#8221;

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/world/middleeast/egypt.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0

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## MooshMoosh

Pro supporters during the day.












































This is the people General Sisi's called terrorist 2 days ago when he said he would crush of show support of him. Will put more inc anti protesters soon

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## Yzd Khalifa

Wow the MB became like a curse to Egyptians!!

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## MooshMoosh

Post pics on net, not media except articles.

Tahrir is dangerous, that's why no one goes there cos reports 90+ people were raped and assualted 3 weeks ago and now this

















Aljazeera the only mainstream network showing both sides.




Anti protesters mostly in around Tahrir Cairo only 

Anyway back to the pro supporters. Nighttime both side go more.


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## Alshawi1234

hussain0216 said:


> You people sound like the Quresh
> 
> No wonder its so easy for you to attack mosques



Islamist/= Muslims. Modern day Islamists think they own the religion and are God-sent angels to "protect" the religion. Their only goal is to rule. They will do whatever it takes to strengthen their grip on power. In reality they are very far from being true Muslims. They interpret faith as they see benefits them most. 

Instead of changing themselves to become devout Muslims, they change Islam to make it in the shape they fit in.

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## Ceylal

Hussein said:


> @Ceylal French media are saying that the assassination in Tunisia was the act of salafis : one arrested is French-Tunisian salafi
> they really want to create troubles everywhere



This is the 2nd political assassination. Things in Tunisia are dicey. Military speaking, Algeria and Tunisia created a kill zone along the entire border, where either army can cross the border in both directions to stem the salafi armed branch in the Kasserine area.

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## bdslph

no one can deny Morsi and Muslim Brotherhood has good support 
imagine how many the Military killed and arrested still there is protest

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## Ceylal

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Isn'*t Abo-Qutada in making better* than being a Berber?


 Why don't you ask les abu qatada wannabees? These two Imazighen, Allah yarhamhoum made chwarmla out of them.

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## Syrian Lion

*Egypt Pro military rallies
*








































​


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## MooshMoosh

CAIRO &#8212; Heavy fighting following mass rallies over the political fate of Egypt left dozens dead Saturday, according to news reports, a day after officials announced the possibility of serious criminal charges carrying the death penalty against the ousted president, Mohamed Morsi.

As hopes faded for any sort of political accommodation between the Egyptian military and the Muslim Brotherhood, the two sides held dueling rallies to show their power. But violence erupted overnight, with an Egyptian doctor at a field hospital in Cairo, Yehia Mikkia, telling The Associated Press that at least 38 pro-Morsi demonstrators had died. The Muslim Brotherhood said the demonstrators died when security forces opened fire on protesters on the edge of a round-the-clock vigil.

The violence came after a vast state-orchestrated display of military power Friday, with army helicopters hovering low over a huge throng of flag-waving, pro-military demonstrators in Tahrir Square and soldiers deploying in armored personnel carriers across the capital.

The crowds had turned out in Cairo and other Egyptian cities in response to a call by the defense minister, Gen. Abdul-Fattah el-Sisi, for mass demonstrations he said would give him a &#8220;mandate&#8221; to fight terrorism, a phrase widely understood to mean crackdowns on the Brotherhood.


It was another blow to the Arab world&#8217;s most prominent Islamist group, which until recently was the major political force in government, having repeatedly won elections after the country&#8217;s uprising two years ago.

The Brotherhood and several Western and Arab diplomats had called for the military, which has held Mr. Morsi incommunicado since his ouster three weeks ago, to release him as a good-will gesture, in hopes of brokering a compromise that would end the standoff between Islamists and the military. That now seems almost impossible, analysts say, with indications that the military is carrying out investigations geared toward a broader legal assault on the Brotherhood.

&#8220;This is a preparation for eliminating the Brotherhood,&#8221; said Emad Shahin, a political science professor at the American University in Cairo.

The Brotherhood responded defiantly on Friday, with pro-Morsi marches taking place along dozens of planned routes in Cairo and other cities. The group has continued to demand Mr. Morsi&#8217;s reinstatement as a precondition for any negotiations and labeled General Sisi&#8217;s plea for street demonstrations as a call to &#8220;civil war.&#8221; Its leaders insist that they are not seeking violence. Their marches, which regularly snarl busy Cairo streets, have become increasingly confrontational, setting the stage for the violent clashes overnight.

&#8220;Our blood and souls we will sacrifice for Islam,&#8221; some pro-Morsi protesters chanted, while others chanted his name and held posters bearing his face.

In Tahrir Square, by contrast, posters bearing General Sisi&#8217;s face bobbed above the crowd, amid a mood of aggressive nationalism that has gripped much of Egypt since the military removed Mr. Morsi. Crowds began gathering early in the day, with protesters hugging the soldiers guarding the entrances to the square and posing for pictures with them. Television networks delayed daytime serials broadcast during the holy month of Ramadan, to encourage people to join the anti-Brotherhood demonstrations.

The two protest camps also clashed on Friday in the port city of Alexandria, where seven people were reported dead and scores were injured.

Well over 100 people have been killed in clashes between supporters and opponents of the Brotherhood in the last month, including a polarizing episode on July 8 in which soldiers and police officers fired on Brotherhood members and killed 62.

Mr. Morsi, whose face regularly appears on large banners in Islamist marches across the country, is being investigated on charges that he conspired with the militant Palestinian group Hamas in a prison escape. The charges appear to relate to his own 2011 escape from Wadi Natroun prison. He is accused of conspiring with Hamas in &#8220;hostile acts,&#8221; including the kidnapping and killing of police officers and soldiers, according to a report on the Web site of Egypt&#8217;s flagship state newspaper, Al Ahram. He was also ordered detained for an additional 15 days, the report said.

The Wadi Natroun accusations, which have been emphasized by his political opponents for some time, gained little traction until after Mr. Morsi was deposed, and they have been dismissed by many human rights advocates as political. Mr. Morsi was arrested in the final days of Mr. Mubarak&#8217;s government, and after his release, Mr. Morsi said in a television interview that he was among 30 members of his movement who were broken out of prison by men they did not know.

The announcement of the formal detention and possible charges may also be aimed at providing legal cover in the face of international pressure on the Egyptian authorities to release Mr. Morsi. On Wednesday, Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations secretary general, joined the United States, the European Union and other bodies in expressing concern about Mr. Morsi&#8217;s unexplained detention.

In a statement, Salah al-Bardaweel, a spokesman for Hamas, denounced the accusations and challenged Egyptian prosecutors to present evidence that the group had been involved in the prison breaks. &#8220;This is an implication of Hamas into a dishonorable political battle,&#8221; he said.

Mr. Haddad, the Brotherhood spokesman, said Friday that the threatened charges amounted to a repudiation by the military of the revolt that toppled Mr. Mubarak and &#8220;might increase the number of angry people on the ground.&#8221;

&#8220;It will only help strengthen the realization that the Mubarak state is back,&#8221; he said.

At many protests, where thousands of Brotherhood supporters and their Islamist allies have been camped out for weeks, bearded clerics called for an Islamic state while the crowd chanted, &#8220;The people demand the return of the president.&#8221;

&#8220;I think the criminal charges were filed to push the Brotherhood to violence, so the military could then use that as an excuse to crack down,&#8221; said Soha Emera, a 43-year-old woman in a pale head scarf, standing near the stage. &#8220;But they have stayed peaceful. Look what happened today: it was other people attacking the Brotherhood.&#8221;

In Tahrir Square, a stronghold for Mr. Morsi&#8217;s opponents for weeks, many in the crowd seemed heartened by news of the formal detention and legal accusations.

&#8220;Morsi is nothing but a criminal, and the Egyptian people will be victorious,&#8221; said Ibrahim Abdelrahman, a 60-year-old retiree, as he waved an Egyptian flag. &#8220;The people, the army, the police: we are all one hand.&#8221;


----------



## MooshMoosh

Ceylal said:


> This is the 2nd political assassination. Things in Tunisia are dicey.



And what's so bad about it? The dude deserved to be killed because he used anti Muslim rhetorics often so good riddance.


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Junta gen. Pissi being Shocked after he failed to gather 100 thousands people in Tahrir square despite of all monetary promotions and free transportation while millions anti junta people marching in streets throughout Egypt..
independed soruces say only arround 20 thousands people could gathered in Tharir.

After junta army failed to frighten people from protesting they begun to use and armed criminal gang Baltajis againist protestors and caused killing of tens protestors by now..

From now on, times work against sellouts who sold Egypt and democracy for the sake of a bunch of billions dollar.

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## MooshMoosh

*BREAKING NEWS*

Army shot 120 pros dead and injured 4000!!! According to media but possible more by Egyptian witnesses

CAIRO (Reuters) - Egyptian security forces shot dead at least 70 supporters of ousted President Mohammed Mursi early on Saturday, his Muslim Brotherhood said, deepening the turmoil which has convulsed Egypt for weeks.

Brotherhood spokesman Gehad El-Haddad said the shooting started shortly before pre-dawn morning prayers on the fringes of a round-the-clock vigil being staged by backers of Mursi, who was toppled by the army more than three weeks ago.

"They are not shooting to wound, they are shooting to kill," Haddad said, adding that the death toll might be much higher.

Al Jazeera's Egypt television station reported that 120 had been killed and some 4,500 injured in the early morning violence on the fringes of a round-the-clock vigil being staged by backers of Mursi near Cairo's Rabaa al-Adawia mosque.

."
Reporters at the scene said firing could still be heard hours after the troubles started.

"I have been trying to make the youth withdraw for five hours. I can't. They are saying have paid with their blood and they do not want to retreat," said Saad el-Hosseini, a senior Brotherhood politician.

"It is a first attempt to clear Rabaa al-Adawia," he added.

There was no immediate comment from state authorities on what had happened.

Supporters and opponents of Mursi staged mass rival rallies across the country on Friday, bringing hundreds of thousands into the streets and laying bare deep divisions within the Arab world's most populous country.

."
Well over 200 people have died in violence since the overthrow of Mursi, including at least nine on Friday, most of them Brotherhood supporters.

Army chief General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, who played a central role in the overthrow of Mursi following huge demonstrations against his year-long rule, called for Egyptians to rally on Friday to give him a mandate to tackle "violence and terrorism".

Hundreds of thousands heeded his call, but Muslim Brotherhood supporters also staged mass, counter-rallies, demanding the reinstatement of Mursi, who was placed under investigation on Friday for a raft of crimes, including murder.

"LIVE ROUNDS"

Asked what the strategy of the Brotherhood would be after the second mass killing of its supporters this month by security forces, Haddad said:

."
"When there are divisions, we go to the ballot box."

Haddad said police started firing repeated rounds of teargas sometime after 3:00 a.m. (0100 GMT) at protesters who had spilled out of the main area of the Rabaa sit-in and were on a main thoroughfare close to 6th October Bridge.

"Through the smog of the gas, the bullets started flying," he said. In addition to "special police forces in black uniforms" firing live rounds, he said that snipers shot from the roofs of a university, buildings in the area, and a bridge.

State news agency MENA quoted an unnamed security source as saying that only teargas was used to disperse protesters. He said no firearms were used.

Haddad said the pro-Mursi supporters had used rocks to try to defend themselves. On the podium outside the Rabaa mosque, a speaker urged people to retreat from the gunfire, but "men stayed to defend themselves because women and children are inside the sit-in", he said.

."
It was the second time this month there had been a mass killing near Rabaa. On July 8, 53 people died when armed men shot into a crowd after morning prayers close to a Republican Guard compound in the area.

"This is much more brutal because the Republican Guard looked like a tactical military operation. This one looks like a much more brutal aggression," Haddad said.

Egypt's army-installed interior minister, Mohamed Ibrahim, said on Friday that the month-old Cairo vigils by Mursi supporters would be "brought to an end, soon and in a legal manner", state-run al Ahram news website reported.

There is deepening alarm in the West over the army's move against Mursi. The country of 84 million people forms a bridge between the Middle East and North Africa and receives $1.5 billion a year in mainly military aid from Washington.

The investigation into Mursi centers on accusations that he conspired with the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas to escape from jail during the 2011 uprising against veteran autocrat Hosni Mubarak, killing some prisoners and officers, kidnapping soldiers and torching buildings.

."

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## Dr. Strangelove

MooshMoosh said:


> *BREAKING NEWS*
> 
> Army shot 120 pros dead and injured 4000!!!
> 
> CAIRO (Reuters) - Egyptian security forces shot dead at least 70 supporters of ousted President Mohammed Mursi early on Saturday, his Muslim Brotherhood said, deepening the turmoil which has convulsed Egypt for weeks.
> 
> Brotherhood spokesman Gehad El-Haddad said the shooting started shortly before pre-dawn morning prayers on the fringes of a round-the-clock vigil being staged by backers of Mursi, who was toppled by the army more than three weeks ago.
> 
> "They are not shooting to wound, they are shooting to kill," Haddad said, adding that the death toll might be much higher.
> 
> Al Jazeera's Egypt television station reported that 120 had been killed and some 4,500 injured in the early morning violence on the fringes of a round-the-clock vigil being staged by backers of Mursi near Cairo's Rabaa al-Adawia mosque.
> 
> ."
> Reporters at the scene said firing could still be heard hours after the troubles started.
> 
> "I have been trying to make the youth withdraw for five hours. I can't. They are saying have paid with their blood and they do not want to retreat," said Saad el-Hosseini, a senior Brotherhood politician.
> 
> "It is a first attempt to clear Rabaa al-Adawia," he added.
> 
> There was no immediate comment from state authorities on what had happened.
> 
> Supporters and opponents of Mursi staged mass rival rallies across the country on Friday, bringing hundreds of thousands into the streets and laying bare deep divisions within the Arab world's most populous country.
> 
> ."
> Well over 200 people have died in violence since the overthrow of Mursi, including at least nine on Friday, most of them Brotherhood supporters.
> 
> Army chief General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, who played a central role in the overthrow of Mursi following huge demonstrations against his year-long rule, called for Egyptians to rally on Friday to give him a mandate to tackle "violence and terrorism".
> 
> Hundreds of thousands heeded his call, but Muslim Brotherhood supporters also staged mass, counter-rallies, demanding the reinstatement of Mursi, who was placed under investigation on Friday for a raft of crimes, including murder.
> 
> "LIVE ROUNDS"
> 
> Asked what the strategy of the Brotherhood would be after the second mass killing of its supporters this month by security forces, Haddad said:
> 
> ."
> "When there are divisions, we go to the ballot box."
> 
> Haddad said police started firing repeated rounds of teargas sometime after 3:00 a.m. (0100 GMT) at protesters who had spilled out of the main area of the Rabaa sit-in and were on a main thoroughfare close to 6th October Bridge.
> 
> "Through the smog of the gas, the bullets started flying," he said. In addition to "special police forces in black uniforms" firing live rounds, he said that snipers shot from the roofs of a university, buildings in the area, and a bridge.
> 
> State news agency MENA quoted an unnamed security source as saying that only teargas was used to disperse protesters. He said no firearms were used.
> 
> Haddad said the pro-Mursi supporters had used rocks to try to defend themselves. On the podium outside the Rabaa mosque, a speaker urged people to retreat from the gunfire, but "men stayed to defend themselves because women and children are inside the sit-in", he said.
> 
> ."
> It was the second time this month there had been a mass killing near Rabaa. On July 8, 53 people died when armed men shot into a crowd after morning prayers close to a Republican Guard compound in the area.
> 
> "This is much more brutal because the Republican Guard looked like a tactical military operation. This one looks like a much more brutal aggression," Haddad said.
> 
> Egypt's army-installed interior minister, Mohamed Ibrahim, said on Friday that the month-old Cairo vigils by Mursi supporters would be "brought to an end, soon and in a legal manner", state-run al Ahram news website reported.
> 
> There is deepening alarm in the West over the army's move against Mursi. The country of 84 million people forms a bridge between the Middle East and North Africa and receives $1.5 billion a year in mainly military aid from Washington.
> 
> The investigation into Mursi centers on accusations that he conspired with the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas to escape from jail during the 2011 uprising against veteran autocrat Hosni Mubarak, killing some prisoners and officers, kidnapping soldiers and torching buildings.
> 
> ."



link please


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## Hussein

@Frogman @agentny17 @Mahmoud_EGY
bit late sorry but what do you think about this story ?
UPDATE: Morsi prison escape referred to Egypt prosecutors - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online


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## hussain0216

Massacre

Damn you army scum

In the middle of Ramadan

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## MooshMoosh

wasm95 said:


> link please



It said source on the first sentence, you could've searched it. Here; Death toll from attack on Mursi supporters rises to at least 70 However, this was updated an hour ago. This is not going to look good atm because three days ago, the firaun (pharoah) general said he would threaten to use live bullets if he has supporters but he doesn't and he doesn't know what to do...f**k Nasserist and Mubarak supporters.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

Hussein said:


> @Frogman @agentny17 @Mahmoud_EGY
> bit late sorry but what do you think about this story ?
> UPDATE: Morsi prison escape referred to Egypt prosecutors - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online


this case is under investigation i cant say anything about it yet however it is impossible that he escaped without support of well trained and organized armed group

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## Dr. Strangelove

so this is egypts hero army 
they r shooting unarmed protesters 
in pakistan there have been no bloody coups all were peaceful because people wanted coups 
but here egyption army have gone rouge

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## Edevelop

Egypt: more than 75 dead as violence erupts at Cairo rallies - Telegraph

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## MooshMoosh

Click CC for subtitle. Witnesses spoke about Egypt's force massacre today.

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## hussain0216

****** dirty kaffir army, may you burn in hell you scum

Firing on unarmed people, you are a worthless force built to oppress your people


This is why revolutions are needed in the Muslim world to get rid of these dirty traitor animals


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## islamrules

Police and thugs joining forces

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## islamrules

these people are no longer muslims indeed because the prophet salla allahu alaihi wa sallam said : a muslim can remain so as long as he doesn't get involved in a haram blood .
u would not be surpried to know what he said about nowadays police

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## hussain0216

I couldn't believe secular egyptians were such haramies


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## islamrules

khaled abdu nasser Mecanical engineer













Russian bullets to kill peaceful protesters 




Yousef Khafagi 11 years old killed in alexendria

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## anonymus

trolling in response to trolling.


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## islamrules

this is with no doubt fitnatul duhayma' that the prophet spoke of , Egypt and Sham appearently r the battleground, the Almighty is parting them up into 2 sides , the side of iman and the side of kuffr . as the hadith said :"if people become to parties, a party "phustat" of iman where there is no room for nifaq , and another party of kuffr where there is no room for iman , then expect Dajjal Today or Tommorrow "


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## islamrules

*More then 700 injuries and 10 deads in 3 hours *

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## islamrules

*more then 200 shahid *

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## MooshMoosh

As if it's going worse. Pro democracy supporters like the unscarved lady video I posted and pro Morsi is increasing more and more after the army exposed themselves to be murderers or should I say Gen El Sisi?

Now, those Nasserist and athiest Frogman is going to say terrorist men only were killed only blabla etc fault without providing proof but to post useless propaganda articles. It's because they are Nasserist, similiar to Socialist and it is dicatorship. I don't trust socialist d*cks. No more excuses. The army did kill hundreds of people and brutally wounded thousand and what now? civil war? Gen Sisi stated he'll crush them then go ahead.

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## Cheetah786

220 killed in army attack on pro-Morsi sit-in

Unconfirmed reports by Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood claim 220 protesters were killed, 4,500 injured in army attack on pro-Morsi sit-in. Army claims only 38 dead, 500 wounded 

Al Jazeera's Egypt television station showed medics desperately trying to revive casualties arriving at a Brotherhood field hospital at a sit-in at Rabaa al-Adawiya, a mosque in northeast Cairo.

Brotherhood spokesman Gehad El-Haddad said the shooting started shortly before pre-dawn morning prayers on the fringes of a round-the-clock vigil being staged by backers of Morsi, who was ousted by the army more than three weeks ago.

"They are not shooting to wound, they are shooting to kill," Haddad said. "The bullet wounds are in the head and chest."


Report: 220 killed in army attack on pro-Morsi sit-in - Israel News, Ynetnews

"To Allah we belong and to Him is our return." (Inna lillahe wa inna ilayhe rajeoon)


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## darkinsky

@Cheetah786 is it also a shia bloodbath because i remember you taking egyptian army pro stance and deplored MB


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## MooshMoosh

Anti protesters backed by force

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## Hyperion

The real spring has just begun. Now let's see what happens next. 

RIP..... to the departed....

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## MooshMoosh

There is pictures and updates on Egypt's disussion thread


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## bdslph

EGYPT is bleeding
the army is trying to wipe out the Muslim Brother hood
MB is really good they did not turn it in to civil war or fighting 

i use to respect the Army of Egypt but no more 

they want ask about Hamas and killing of protester by Morsi which is both make up case 
just then how about the killing right now who will answer it 

there is no government in Egypt


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## Sedqal

anonymus said:


> Pig Butchering time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well done Egyptian Army.
> 
> 
> Sorry could not resist the temptation to troll.Apologies to anyone whom i may have offended except my target



Only a mentally challenged person can celebrate human misery in this fashion. Whats up with the Admins they on vacation or what. Ban this troll.

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## livingdead

220.. my god.. this is truely a bloodbath..


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## Falcon29

bdslph said:


> EGYPT is bleeding
> the army is trying to wipe out the Muslim Brother hood
> MB is really good they did not turn it in to civil war or fighting
> 
> i use to respect the Army of Egypt but no more
> 
> they want ask about Hamas and killing of protester by Morsi which is both make up case
> just then how about the killing right now who will answer it
> 
> there is no government in Egypt



Hamas didn't kill any protesters nor do they involve in Egypt's affairs. Put that in your head and take Hamas out of e story which it has nothing to do with.

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## anonymus

!@#$%^&*()


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## Sedqal

MooshMoosh said:


> As if it's going worse. Pro democracy supporters like the unscarved lady video I posted and pro Morsi is increasing more and more after the army exposed themselves to be murderers or should I say Gen El Sisi?
> 
> Now, those Nasserist and athiest Frogman is going to say terrorist men only were killed only blabla etc fault without providing proof but to post useless propaganda articles. It's because they are Nasserist, similiar to Socialist and it is dicatorship. I don't trust socialist d*cks. No more excuses. The army did kill hundreds of people and brutally wounded thousand and what now? civil war? Gen Sisi stated he'll crush them then go ahead.



- Its not Only General Sisi, if killing Egyptians can come so easy to Egyptian army then there is something structurally wrong with it. Don't make the mistake of making Sisi the bogeyman. 

- Remember the Muslim Brethren from Arab lands and their billions directly prolonging the misery of pro-democracy Egyptians. 

- If you lose remember the lessons: 

1- Army has no business in politics and in overthrowing Govts, the sacred bond with Egyptian public is a joke.
2- The political parties which welcomed army should be made responsible too and should be hounded till they accept their mistake.
3- You will suffer the same unless you can reduce the influence of Iran/ Saudia in Egypt.

(And of-course it is a civil war Moosh and pro-Morsi forces will likely lose. Thing is that those forces should learn some lessons if any thing is to gained from this tragedy)


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## Marshmallow

RIP.........


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## Hyperion

I need to hunt my previous post..... as predicted.....

This will further get out of hand, and within approximately 6 - 9 months Egyptian Army will be culled and disbanded.... Iraq in the making........ wait and see.....



hinduguy said:


> 220.. my god.. this is truely a bloodbath..



P.S. Btw, excellent future business opportunity for people dealing in wholesale sugar + wheat ... many other utilities that will be needed one year down the road....

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## bdslph

Hazzy997 said:


> Hamas didn't kill any protesters nor do they involve in Egypt's affairs. Put that in your head and take Hamas out of e story which it has nothing to do with.



i am not talking about Hamas getting involved but rather the Egypt Army made a case against Morsi how he escaped etc.. how Hamas and he Morsi had some agreement something like that 

I know Hamas is not involved in Egypt

what is happening in Egypt now is a Massacre and they call in Syria Massacre 
where is Saudi Qatar USA NATO EU now 

i some pictures it is sad to see the security forces are with thugs now 

Egypt is divided now


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## darkinsky

Hyperion said:


> I need to hunt my previous post..... as predicted.....
> 
> This will further get out of hand, and within approximately 6 - 9 months Egyptian Army will be culled and disbanded.... Iraq in the making........ wait and see.....



you are truely a trusted fortune teller



hinduguy said:


> 220.. my god.. this is truely a bloodbath..



why shocked

as if you havent experienced in kashmir


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## islamrules

Allah swt says in suratu Shu'ara :" 53 Then Pharaoh sent among the cities gatherers 54 [And said], Indeed, those are but a small band, 55 And indeed, they are enraging us, 56 And indeed, we are a cautious society ... "

and in surat Ghafir the Pharaoh said, "Let me kill Moses and let him call upon his Lord. Indeed, I fear that he will change your religion or that he will cause corruption in the land."

that is the miracle that is the holly Quran , the same story repeated itself with the perished al abdul khasir and with mubarak and now with sisi al kafir . he calls upon the police n thugs n army n media ..... to wage war on the peaceful innocent protesters n claims they r terrorists . there are indeed a lot of muslims in the Egyptian army , they oppose Sisi and they r jailed immidiately


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## Hyperion

No fortune telling here.... just an extension of logic....... A->B->C-> obviously D comes next! 



darkinsky said:


> you are truely a trusted fortune teller
> 
> 
> 
> why shocked
> 
> as if you havent experienced in kashmir

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## Falcon29

bdslph said:


> i am not talking about Hamas getting involved but rather the Egypt Army made a case against Morsi how he escaped etc.. how Hamas and he Morsi had some agreement something like that
> 
> I know Hamas is not involved in Egypt



Hamas is a recognized organization in the arabic world. And always has had political relations with Egypt. They're talking about how he got out of prison, which Egypt claims Hamas and Hezbollah helped them get out. While not offering solid evidence to their claims. And if true should be something accepted since that was during the Mubarak regime and it was meant to silence political opponents.

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## olcayto

My god.

This is just a massacre. Where's the so called democracy of the people who were protesting at tahrir square know?
Why are they not protesting against the army massacres now?

May the rest place of the massacred one's be heaven and &#304; pray for strength for the families of the murdered ones.

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## livingdead

darkinsky said:


> you are truely a trusted fortune teller
> 
> 
> 
> why shocked
> 
> as if you havent experienced in kashmir



in a day? no way... annual death does not top 100... and its very seasonal...


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## islamrules

the head of kuffr thanking the army and the police and the thugs for slaughering muslims ..

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## darkinsky

hinduguy said:


> in a day? no way... annual death does not top 100... and its very seasonal...



now when are you planning to have a next field day 





@hinduguy


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## Cheetah786

darkinsky said:


> @Cheetah786 is it also a shia bloodbath because i remember you taking egyptian army pro stance and deplored MB


 @darkinsky shouldn't you be out killing innocent civilians and destroying Karachi for British M16 Agent.

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## darkinsky

Hyperion said:


> No fortune telling here.... just an extension of logic....... A->B->C-> obviously D comes next!



you should be advisor to pervez khattak, you will succeed

A->B->C-> obviously D





Cheetah786 said:


> @darkinsky shouldn't you be out killing innocent civilians and destroying Karachi for British M16 Agent.



shouldnt you be out with hizbullah?

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## islamrules

*Allahu Akbar , this pic right here does summs it all up , does it ring a bell ?*

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## Serpentine

Sedqal said:


> - Its not Only General Sisi, if killing Egyptians can come so easy to Egyptian army then there is something structurally wrong with it. Don't make the mistake of making Sisi the bogeyman.
> 
> - Remember the Muslim Brethren from Arab lands and their billions directly prolonging the misery of pro-democracy Egyptians.
> 
> - If you lose remember the lessons:
> 
> 1- Army has no business in politics and in overthrowing Govts, the sacred bond with Egyptian public is a joke.
> 2- The political parties which welcomed army should be made responsible too and should be hounded till they accept their mistake.
> 3- You will suffer the same unless *you can reduce the influence of Iran*/ Saudia in Egypt.
> 
> (And of-course it is a civil war Moosh and pro-Morsi forces will likely lose. Thing is that those forces should learn some lessons if any thing is to gained from this tragedy)



Iran's influence? I thought you guys said Iran has Zero influence in Egypt? What does it have anything to do with Iran?



It's really sad to see Egypt like this, innocent people get killed. I don't know if that 220 casualty number is true, but it's just really sad.

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## livingdead

darkinsky said:


> now when are you planning to have a next field day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @hinduguy



maine violence chhod diya hai... aaj kal ...

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## al-Hasani

The Egyptian army has gone nuts. It must be condemned by the world society so order in Egypt can be restored. If the news reported is true about all those casualties then the Egyptian Army and society is digging its own grave on the long run.

Man, I am eternally thankful that I don't live in a so-called "Arab democracy" or "republic".



islamrules said:


> *Allahu Akbar , this pic right here does summs it all up , does it ring a bell ?*



Disgusting picture. Illiterate moron. Egypt is not Iran!

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## Sedqal

Serpentine said:


> Iran's influence? I thought you guys said Iran has Zero influence in Egypt? What the hell does it have anything to do with Iran?
> 
> 
> 
> It's really sad to see Egypt like this, innocent people get killed. I don't know if that 220 casualty number is true, but it's just really sad.



I distinctly remember Iranis cheering Sisi and mocking MB. Iran officially took a U-Turn after they saw MB sticking to their rightful demands. Remember the 'Anti-Shia' 'Takfeeri' MB slogans. 

Every country in the Gulf should keep Iran and Saudia at an arms length.

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## Hyperion

Well, he couldn't find any Pashtun today, or perhaps they couldn't find him.... 



Cheetah786 said:


> @darkinsky shouldn't you be out killing innocent civilians and destroying Karachi for British M16 Agent.

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## islamrules




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## Chak Bamu

Pictures by Musa'ab Elshamy - 
Graphic images.
Rabaa Adaweya clashes - 27/7/2013 - a set on Flickr


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## Cheetah786

darkinsky said:


> shouldn't you be out with hizbullah?



No My loyalties are with my country

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## kaykay

RIP. Don't know whats wrong with these countries now a days.


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## MooshMoosh

Gen Sisi said to crush terrorism. Terrorism=supporters. Okay, gonna use Abrams or F16 on those people?

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## Serpentine

al-Hasani said:


> Disgusting picture. Illiterate moron. Egypt is not Iran!


Thinking that people in Iran do such stupid things is beyond ignorance, why don't you show me one idiot in Iran doing this?



Sedqal said:


> I distinctly remember Iranis cheering Sisi and mocking MB. Iran officially took a U-Turn after they saw MB sticking to their rightful demands. Remember the 'Anti-Shia' 'Takfeeri' MB slogans.
> 
> Every country in the Gulf should keep Iran and Saudia at an arms length.



No, Iran neither cheered for Sisi nor supported Morsi completely, in it's official stance, it declared that rights of the majority of Egyptians to be fulfilled. The best solution is a referendum.

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## Chak Bamu

Sedqal said:


> Every country in the Gulf should keep Iran and Saudia at an arms length.



Not just Gulf brother. It is good advice for us in Pakistan as well. We had not Shia Sunni problem until 1979.

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## MooshMoosh

al-Hasani said:


> Disgusting picture. Illiterate moron. Egypt is not Iran!



Don't show him anything, he's a moderator, he might ban you again if you insult his country lol


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## Cheetah786

hinduguy said:


> maine violence chhod diya hai... aaj kal ...



That is @darkinsky relatives that were fortunately for pakistan left in India.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Cheetah786 said:


> No My loyalties are with my country



Of course, that's obvious. 

On topic:
The news is baseless, no conformation


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## islamrules

look at what the Pharaoh said to his slaves , he said : "*Let me* kill Moses and let him call upon his Lord. Indeed, I fear that he will change your religion or that he will cause corruption in the land."

the Pharaoh is asking a permission or and authorization or a Licence from his people to kill Moses . all these words can be translated in Arabic to Tafwid &#1578;&#1601;&#1608;&#1610;&#1590; , now let c what Sisi asked his people , yes , he asked for a tafwid to fight "terrorism" , a tafwid to kill the unarmed protesters .





Now the idea is , Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala could just let him kill the innocent people without tafwid but , the Almighty wants the people of Sisi to be faced with what he (Sisi) has committed. They r not less of criminals then their Pharaoh is

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## MooshMoosh

islamrules said:


>



I've been hearing supporters, former ministers and internationals etc accusing the firaun Sisi of this speech because it will lead to a civil war.

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## Archdemon

Maybe it is misinformation by MB they wish for more casualties the merrier, fueling the tension, and that misinformation may be self fulfilling prophecy


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## SOHEIL

R.I.P .....

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## MooshMoosh

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Of course, that's obvious.
> 
> On topic:
> The news is baseless, no conformation



Please, no excuses. It did happen. There are vids and pics you can search, there is in Egypt's thread.


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## BLACKEAGLE

MooshMoosh said:


> Please, no excuses. It did happen. There are vids and pics you can search, there is in Egypt's thread.



I can't find it on news.. :/ I'll check the thread

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## SOHEIL

al-Hasani said:


> Egypt is not Iran!



Agree ... this is a big insult for Iranians !

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## Cheetah786

> =BLACKEAGLE;4569305]Of course, that's obvious.



Clearly you have to come to the defense of any body destroying pakistan as thats your sects main objective. It must suck to see you being declared terrorist by EU .........chew slowly and swallow.



> On topic:
> 
> The news is baseless, no conformation



World media reports confirm but not reported in Wahhabi daily so no one can blame you.


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## Hussein

MooshMoosh said:


> Don't show him anything, he's a moderator, he might ban you again if you insult his country lol



this topic is about Egypt, not Iran
this guy is such fanatic he will find Iran matter in all subjects


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## Hyperion

Dude, TV says otherwise.... follow the news! 



BLACKEAGLE said:


> Of course, that's obvious.
> 
> On topic:
> The news is baseless, no conformation

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## BLACKEAGLE

Horrible news..

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## al-Hasani

Serpentine said:


> Thinking that people in Iran do such stupid things is beyond ignorance, why don't you show me one idiot in Iran doing this?
> 
> 
> 
> No, Iran neither cheered for Sisi nor supported Morsi completely, in it's official stance, it declared that rights of the majority of Egyptians to be fulfilled. The best solution is a referendum.



LOL. You people are basically worshipping your holy "cows" that rule you - in other words the fake wannabe Arab Mullah's. You know Supreme Leader, Grand Ayatollah and other nonsense. Besides let us not even discuss your sects beliefs.

I bet that every single Iranian village from the deserts to the mountains have a picture of that Khomeini Indian.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5n-F6B5oHE

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## Hussein

THIS IS A TOPIC ABOUT EGYPT !!!!!!!


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## MooshMoosh

http://www.********.com/view?i=823_1374926870

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## islamrules

I could swear by Allah that Morsi is a very blessed man indeed . I think that the Almighty wanned his hands clean from this bloodshed , so he was isolated . now Sisi and all those who autorized him r to answer for all this .
same for the bearded police officers ousted from the police force because of the beard .. this state is obsessed with ousting all muslims from its ranks n then waging war on islam . 
but, there r still muslims in the army but they'de better come out soon , becasue the heads of their army r Kuffars , what are they waiting for, the shuhada Today are 200 , when will they move ?? when the shuhada r 100000 ??


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## XENOVALKRYIE DRAGON

nothing special........more..........more blood & masacree will happen............

more innocent will killed in middle east include egypt,iraq,syria & all middle east......
chaos & war will come soon in egypt this is like prophet propechy......

This Chaos Is Beginning Of Imam Mahdi Era & The Great War Will come soon

*Prophet Muhammad SAW Hadist About Chaos & War In Egypt & Middle East*

*AshSham, Iraq, Egypt, Kuwait

Narrated from Ka'b bin Alqama : "There will be, after the Fitna (trouble) in AshSham, an eastern one (Fitna) which will be the devastation of the kings and the humiliation of the Arabs, until the people of the Maghrib come out." (Nuaim bin Hammad, Kitab al-Fitan, No. 53)



The people of AsSham (Greater Syria) will take prisoner the tribes of Egypt. (Ibn Hajar Haytahami, Al-Qawl Al-Mukhtasar fi Alamat Al-Mahdi Al-Muntazar, p. 49)



Ibn Hajr Al-'Asqalani narrated that Abu Idris Al-Khaulani heard from Nahik bin Surim Al-Sakuni that the Messenger of Allah, Muhammad, &#1589;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1608;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605; said: "You will fight the unbelievers until the remnant of you fight on the River Jordan, you on the East of it and they on the West of it." (Ahmad

Abu Huraira said that Allah's Messenger &#1589;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1608;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605; said: "Iraq will withhold its dirhams and qafiz; Syria will withhold its mudd and dinar and Egypt will withhold its irdab and dinar. You will return to that position from where you started. You will return to that position from where you started. The flesh and blood of Abu Huraira bears testimony to it." (Sahih Muslim)

There will be devastation all around the World. Ultimately, Egypt will also be ruined, but until Basra is destroyed, Egypt will remain secure. The destruction of Basra will be due to Iraq's destruction. Meanwhile, the downfall of Egypt will come with the drying up of the Nile... (Qurtubi, Mukhtasar Tazkirah, p. 530)*

From discoveringislam


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## anonymus

XENOVALKRYIE DRAGON said:


> nothing special........more..........more blood & masacree will happen............
> 
> more innocent will killed in middle east include egypt,iraq,syria & all middle east......
> chaos & war will come soon in egypt this is like prophet propechy......
> 
> This Chaos Is Beginning Of Imam Mahdi Era & The Great War Will come soon
> 
> *Prophet Muhammad SAW Hadist About Chaos & War In Egypt & Middle East[/B
> 
> AshSham, Iraq, Egypt, Kuwait
> 
> Narrated from Ka'b bin Alqama : "There will be, after the Fitna (trouble) in AshSham, an eastern one (Fitna) which will be the devastation of the kings and the humiliation of the Arabs, until the people of the Maghrib come out." (Nuaim bin Hammad, Kitab al-Fitan, No. 53)
> 
> 
> 
> The people of AsSham (Greater Syria) will take prisoner the tribes of Egypt. (Ibn Hajar Haytahami, Al-Qawl Al-Mukhtasar fi Alamat Al-Mahdi Al-Muntazar, p. 49)
> 
> 
> 
> Ibn Hajr Al-'Asqalani narrated that Abu Idris Al-Khaulani heard from Nahik bin Surim Al-Sakuni that the Messenger of Allah, Muhammad, &#1589;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1608;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605; said: "You will fight the unbelievers until the remnant of you fight on the River Jordan, you on the East of it and they on the West of it." (Ahmad
> 
> Abu Huraira said that Allah's Messenger &#1589;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1608;&#1587;&#1604;&#1605; said: "Iraq will withhold its dirhams and qafiz; Syria will withhold its mudd and dinar and Egypt will withhold its irdab and dinar. You will return to that position from where you started. You will return to that position from where you started. The flesh and blood of Abu Huraira bears testimony to it." (Sahih Muslim)
> 
> There will be devastation all around the World. Ultimately, Egypt will also be ruined, but until Basra is destroyed, Egypt will remain secure. The destruction of Basra will be due to Iraq's destruction. Meanwhile, the downfall of Egypt will come with the drying up of the Nile... (Qurtubi, Mukhtasar Tazkirah, p. 530)*


*

Welcome Back.
 @Harmonia Dragon.

Any new prophecies or same old wine in new bootle. Oops  Wine is Haram.*

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## Frogman

> Now, those Nasserist and athiest Frogman is going to say terrorist men only were killed only blabla etc fault without providing proof but to post useless propaganda articles. It's because they are Nasserist, similiar to Socialist and it is dicatorship. I don't trust socialist d*cks. No more excuses. The army did kill hundreds of people and brutally wounded thousand and what now? civil war? Gen Sisi stated he'll crush them then go ahead.




Never go full retard.

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## islamrules

Not to forget all those Arab leaders who supported the coup n betrayed the Egyptian muslims , they have muslim blood in their hands . so to them I say prepare ur arguments in front of Allah .


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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> Never go full retard.



wtf man, it isn't funny.


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## Hussein

anonymus said:


> Any new prophecies or same old wine in new bootle. Oops  *Wine *is Haram.


sake (japan) lol 



islamrules said:


> Not to forget all those Arab leaders who supported the coup n betrayed the Egyptian muslims , they have muslim blood in their hands . so to them I say prepare ur arguments in front of Allah .



you are Allah?

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## BLACKEAGLE

Frogman said:


> Never go full retard.



Have the army gone nuts? This is a disastrous mistake, they are tearing Egyptian community apart.

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## Serpentine

al-Hasani said:


> LOL. You people are basically worshipping your holy "cows" that rule you - in other words the fake wannabe Arab Mullah's. You know Supreme Leader, Grand Ayatollah and other nonsense. Besides let us not even discuss your sects beliefs.
> 
> I bet that every single Iranian village from the deserts to the mountains have a picture of that Khomeini Indian.


I couldn't go any lower than this. Good luck

On topic: There is no recorded history that an army rule has brought democracy to a country.I don't think Egypt will be an exception. Western style democracy never seems to work in some ME countries. It'll either be overthrown or lead to more deaths.


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## islamrules




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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> wtf man, it isn't funny.



You think I'm joking.......

lets just hope the military doesn't intervene to clear rab3a.


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## Frogman

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Have the army gone nuts? This is a disastrous mistake, they are tearing Egyptian community apart.



Security forces. If the military moved in the number of dead would be in the thousands.


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## islamrules

no they r not tearing anyone apart , they r just picking a side , a phustat, the one of nifaq where there is no room for eman .
to hell with national unity if it means killing everything to do with islam .


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## XENOVALKRYIE DRAGON

yup i m back......haha..........
now im in kyoto............for learning japan languange & kenjutsu plus find beautiful japan lady hoho

but...........hey now egypt chaos................
prophet say now coming true one by one

hoho..................NEXT ALL ARAB ERASED & KILLED BY ZIONIST............Step By Step....& Slowly

MORE MORE.............WE NEED MORE BLOOD>>>>>>>> MORE BLOOD, SO WE CAN MAKE IMAM MAHDI COMING....IS FASTER...



Egypt will fallen.....nile river will dry because ethiopia,economic sanction is come soon..........& more blood is come

Goodbye Egypt Your Destruction Age Is Come Step By Step

This Is Your Fate................

Great Job Zionist.......Your plan Is Succes

O arab you want save................simple leave middle east...........


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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> no they r not tearing anyone apart , they r just picking a side , a phustat, the one of nifaq where there is no room for eman .
> to hell with national unity if it means killing everything to do with islam .



So where were you when your muslim bothers were being killed by security forces and phony Islamists under Morsi.

Where were you when Mahommed Mahmoud happened 

Where were you when Maspero happened 

Where were you when al3absiya happened

Where were you when Alathidiya happened 


WHERE WERE YOU WHEN MUSLIM AND CHRISTIAN BLOOD WAS BEING SPILT OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS OR DO YOU ONLY JUMP ON THE LATEST BANDWAGON YOU DETESTABLE HUMAN BEING.

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## XENOVALKRYIE DRAGON

egypt will fallen.......dont worry until the destruction of basra in iraq...& nile river not dry....
the future of egypt is secure but more chaos & blood is came soon

This your fate........prepare.........


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## agentny17

MooshMoosh said:


> As if it's going worse. *Pro democracy supporters like the unscarved lady video I posted and pro Morsi is increasing more and more after the army exposed themselves to be murderers or should I say Gen El Sisi?*
> 
> Now, those Nasserist and athiest Frogman is going to say terrorist men only were killed only blabla etc fault without providing proof but to post useless propaganda articles. It's because they are Nasserist, similiar to Socialist and it is dicatorship. I don't trust socialist d*cks. No more excuses. The army did kill hundreds of people and brutally wounded thousand and what now? civil war? Gen Sisi stated he'll crush them then go ahead.


Really ?!! You had the almost the whole country in the streets yesterday giving the army and security forces green light to fight terrorism. The army is doing what the people wants them to do!! If i was you, i don't go to Egypt now because you would be targeted as a terrorist.


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## Black Widow

wow This is Indian vehicle...









IMG_5476.jpg | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## bdslph

i fully condemn what is happening in Egypt by the illegal government
people are dying no need of this i dont care who is who or religion or race pro or anti 
i want to see a democratic government asap free and fair election 

after this under strict law those who killed must be brought to justice

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## agentny17

Last night, mark a new way of dealing with terrorism in Egypt. I expect security forces to keep up their aggression.. Its time to wipe these MF out of Egypt completely, whether we are talking about ARMED protesters in Cairo and Alexandria, or organized militias in Sinai. Asking the world to intervene is not gonna work for the MB this time. They are so weak to even think about supporting them.. I am against military rule, but chapeau to the Egyptian army and intelligence for coming up with this plan to isolate the MB internally and with the world 



bdslph said:


> i fully condemn what is happening in Egypt by the illegal government
> people are dying no need of this i dont care who is who or religion or race pro or anti
> i want to see a democratic government asap free and fair election
> 
> after this under strict law those who killed must be brought to justice



Yes, they will. All the MB officials and leaders will spend the rest of their lives in prison, if not getting killed the the Egyptian people in action. Lets put it this way, soon they will meet their idols from El Banna, to Qutob, to Atta, and to Bin Laden.

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## forcetrip

Is the US going to arm the muslim brotherhood?


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## bdslph

MooshMoosh said:


> I've been hearing supporters, former ministers and internationals etc accusing the firaun Sisi of this speech because it will lead to a civil war.



looks like civil war is not far a way i wish it dont happen
i am wondering how can he say this kind of things he is the military chief he is not here to control the country 

for that there was a government 
i think SISI wants to take Mubarak palace


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## Yzd Khalifa

agentny17 said:


> Last night, mark a new way of dealing with terrorism in Egypt. I expect security forces to keep up their aggression.. Its time to wipe these MF out of Egypt completely, whether we are talking about ARMED protesters in Cairo and Alexandria, or organized militias in Sinai. Asking the world to intervene is not gonna work for the MB this time. They are so weak to even think about supporting them.. I am against military rule, but chapeau to the Egyptian army and intelligence for coming up with this plan to isolate the MB internally and with the world



No body ever thought that the MB would bring it to the level of such violence like this, I'm impressed by the actions the provisional Gov't is taking, and the ultimatum being made by Sisi to call upon the MB to get involved into the road map.



bdslph said:


> looks like civil war is not far a way i wish it dont happen
> i am wondering how can he say this kind of things he is the military chief he is not here to control the country
> 
> for that there was a government
> i think SISI wants to take Mubarak palace



I don't think you can be more Egyptian than the Egyptians themselves

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## Pakistanisage

Last month when all those morons were celebrating Army takeover in Egypt, I had cautioned that destroying Democracy in Egypt will have deadly effect in the street. People, when you rule through street Power instead of Democratic Institutions, that is a recipe for disaster.

And here it is , Happy ? 120 dead and thousands injured. The death toll shall rise sadly.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...lled-as-violence-erupts-at-Cairo-rallies.html

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## fallstuff

Someone need to put a leash on the military.


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## Hussein




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## Frogman

fallstuff said:


> Someone need to put a leash on the military.



Military personnel weren't present in this event. MB supporters have been clashing with the security forces since the early hours of this morning after provocation. There was no attempt to clear their sit in.

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## HAIDER

hinduguy said:


> 220.. my god.. this is truely a bloodbath..


This is not bloodbath ...this is civil war...


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## agentny17

Serpentine said:


> I couldn't go any lower than this. Good luck
> 
> On topic: There is no recorded history that an army rule has brought democracy to a country.I don't think Egypt will be an exception. Western style democracy never seems to work in some ME countries. It'll either be overthrown or lead to more deaths.


I think democracy will work in Egypt. It will work with excluding the MB all together from the political life! Army, police, lefties, farmers, labor, ect.. have their differences, but we all have common grounds that aim our goals!! You don't have these common grounds with Islamist!! They don't even believe in countries, laws, system, borders, citizenship, ect... People realize that now, most people and Egypt has to take full advantage of the opportunity given to it to eliminate this cancer for good. Once eliminated we can all serve Egypt. Not saying life will be all dandy without them, it won't!! But at least we will get to work on our real problems and try to find solutions for them, instead trying to apply dark ages laws, exclude women, and minorities from building Egypt... You need to exclude terrorists to build a democracy, and to build human rights!! You can't give a group that wants to eliminate these rights the right to rule you or spread their ideology!! It didn't work very well for Germany with Hitler, why would it work for Egypt ?!!

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## K-Xeroid

I condemn the role of KSA and USA in Eygptian Bloodbath .

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## agentny17

Yzd Khalifa said:


> No body ever thought that the MB would bring it to the level of such violence like this, I'm impressed by the actions the provisional Gov't is taking, and the ultimatum being made by Sisi to call upon the MB to get involved into the road map.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you can be more Egyptian than the Egyptians themselves



It's time to eliminate this cancer out of Egypt!! Btw, thanks for the support from Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, and Bahrain, we owe you guys BIG time!! You guys are standing with us basically against the whole world, and you know what they really can't do anything anymore. Thanks again

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## islamrules

*Those are Thugs who attaked the Ka'id Ibrahim masjid, they sieged it :*






























*and they have been held by the prayers inside the masjid *

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## olcayto

agentny17 said:


> I think democracy will work in Egypt. It will work with excluding the MB all together from the political life! Army, police, lefties, farmers, labor, ect.. have their differences, but we all have common grounds that aim our goals!! You don't have these common grounds with Islamist!! They don't even believe in countries, laws, system, borders, citizenship, ect... People realize that now, most people and Egypt has to take full advantage of the opportunity given to it to eliminate this cancer for good. Once eliminated we can all serve Egypt. Not saying life will be all dandy without them, it won't!! But at least we will get to work on our real problems and try to find solutions for them, instead trying to apply dark ages laws, exclude women, and minorities from building Egypt... You need to exclude terrorists to build a democracy, and to build human rights!! You can't give a group that wants to eliminate these rights the right to rule you or spread their ideology!! *It didn't work very well for Germany with Hitler*, why would it work for Egypt ?!!



Change the words MB with jews and Egypt with Germany.

Then you will have a perfect speech, fitting Adolf Hitler.

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## islamrules

agentny17 said:


> It's time to eliminate this cancer out of Egypt!! Btw, thanks for the support from Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, and Bahrain, we owe you guys BIG time!! You guys are standing with us basically against the whole world, and you know what they really can't do anything anymore. Thanks again



well, u only killed 200 shahid and injured 5000 , millions more to go .

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## Hussein

agentny17 said:


> It's time to eliminate this cancer out of Egypt!! Btw, thanks for the support from Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, and Bahrain, we owe you guys BIG time!! You guys are standing with us basically against the whole world, and you know what they really can't do anything anymore. Thanks again


well it seems you choosed your side

i guess you didn't understand who can help you but your choice  bye

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## islamrules

this is a thug , the protesters caught him and they are treating him in Rabi'a square

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## sahaliyan

islamrules said:


> this is a thug , the protesters caught him and they are treating him in Rabi'a square


If it's true, the so-called protesters are very violence,the army should defeat those real thugs-the so-called MB protesters


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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> this is a thug , the protesters caught him and they are treating him in Rabi'a square




So supposedly this is one of those thugs who besieged a mosque full of innocent unarmed protesters right. So, why and by whom was he shot (birdshot) and why and by whom was he beaten?

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## islamrules




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## islamrules

*the doc's asking him to break his fasting, he refuses hoping he breaks it in jannah *


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## islamrules

*the shuhada number goes over 400 shahid !!!*


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## Frogman

> the shuhada number goes over 400 shahid !!!



From what source.


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## islamrules

since the coup I mean


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## Falcon29

Official numbers today just recently announced by Egypt are 67 killed and another 60 on life support with over a 100 wounded. 

RIP to all that died, and even if you are anti MB, don't justify shooting unarmed protesters in dozens. This is a cruel act. And people like agentm17 don't help the situation.

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## Jihad_

Muslims need to get weapons to protect themselves from the bloodthirsty militairy and illegitimate goverment.


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## islamrules

the police could just hit in the legs but they insist on the head and the chest , they shoot to kill

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## Frogman

Jihad_ said:


> Muslims need to get weapons to protect themselves from the bloodthirsty militairy and illegitimate goverment.



So you want another Syria?

Do you think that those who oppose Morsi are kuffars?


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## islamrules

Jihad_ said:


> Muslims need to get weapons to protect themselves from the bloodthirsty militairy and illegitimate goverment.



I disagree, in Egypt at least, because standing up to the pharaoh Sisi is itself a greater Jihad than the Jihad in Asham, as it's been said in the hadith, they need to keep it peaceful and be patient , Allah can give them victory in a way they could never immagined . plus there r muslims in the army and police that do not agree with this secular barbary .

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## Jihad_

islamrules said:


> I disagree, in Egypt at least, because standing up to the pharaoh Sisi is itself a greater Jihad than the Jihad in Asham, as it's been said in the hadith, they need to keep it peaceful and be patient , Allah can give them victory in a way they could never immagined . plus there r muslims in the army and police that do not agree with this secular barbary .



I only said to protect themselves. Pharao Sisi has a bounty on his head.


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## islamrules

Frogman said:


> So you want another Syria?
> 
> Do you think that those who oppose Morsi are kuffars?



this is not about Morsi or the MB n u know it , kuffars r those who want islam out of the political social economic judiciary .. life in Egypt , kuffars are those who r killing and authorizing the killing of muslims .

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## Serpentine

Jihad_ said:


> Muslims need to get weapons to protect themselves from the bloodthirsty militairy and illegitimate goverment.



You guys wouldn't back down until you turn every country in ME in to another Syria, would ya?

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

All tyrants have the same logic. That tyranic logic never will change. No matter Sisi,Assad, Mubarak, Kaddafi..etc. They only rely on power to scatter people. No respect to the democratic will of pepople and no respect to demands of majority. 

Foreigners bribed gen. Pissi is sinking into swamp of blood of people Just ike Assad did in Syria. Like all other dictators all he does is trying to fabricate baselles pretexes to legitimate the massacre of people. 

BTW, GCCs monarchies had gained some esteem and prsetige among muslim world by owning and financing Syrians freedom war against the Damascuss buthcer Assad. Now, they are about to losing all these prestige and esteem by owning and financing bloody Military junta in Egypt.



agentny17 said:


> I think democracy will work in Egypt. It will work with excluding the MB all together from the political life! Army, police, lefties, farmers, labor, ect..



Rustic man!...First go and learn something about demaocracy..Then, talk about democracy..You still arent able to distinguish democracy and dictatorship..

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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> this is not about Morsi or the MB n u know it , kuffars r those who want islam out of the political social economic judiciary .. life in Egypt , kuffars are those who r killing and authorizing the killing of muslims .



This is political not religious. Islam isn't mentioned as a political ideology once in the Quran or Hadith nor does the word Islamism appear. Nearly 85% of Egypt is Muslim and the overwhelming majority of them do not want an Islamist nation. They call Cairo the city of a thousand minarets for a reason. This isnt about "Muslim" Vs "Kuffar" but Egyptian Vs Egyptian it just so happens that one of those Egyptians believes they are somehow closer to god than the rest.


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## The SiLent crY

The same thing happened in Syria 2 years ago and US / Europe / PGCC backed terrorists went for Jihad against Assad , I just wonder if those freedom fighters want to do their holy duty in Egypt or their masters are not going to let them .

The US and west and their puppets such as Saudi Arabia and Qatar are playing people in ME which is totally in favor of Israel . Unfortunately the same sh!t might happen in Tunisia and Libya .


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## islamrules

the Almighty said on the Pharaoh :"So he bluffed his people, and they obeyed him. Indeed, they were [themselves] a people defiantly disobedient [of Allah ]."
the Egyptians have something about them , always looking for that Pharaonic system , the MB and the free muslims r like Moses and Banu israel back in the time of Khufu, exept now there r so many of them and the time of miracles has gone , so they can't all go to Sinai nor any place else , they will stay .


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## hussain0216

Serpentine said:


> You guys wouldn't back down until you turn every country in ME in to another Syria, would ya?



To be fair they have just been gunned down, hundreds of Muslims have been attacked and killed by the military

Don't you think they have the right to defend themselves against such massacre


----------



## ResurgentIran

K-Xeroid said:


> I condemn the role of KSA and USA in Eygptian Bloodbath .



I dont think they had any role. KSA just publically endorsed the overthrow of Morsi, but that is not much of a role.
As for the US, its hard to say where they ever stood in all this.


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## Yzd Khalifa

agentny17 said:


> It's time to eliminate this cancer out of Egypt!! Btw, thanks for the support from Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, and Bahrain, we owe you guys BIG time!! You guys are standing with us basically against the whole world, and you know what they really can't do anything anymore. Thanks again



Well, 

KSA didn't take sides during Jan 25th revolution, but Egypt's public opinion had changed a little bit regarding KSA. But this time, we really can't help the MB as the Egyptian people wanted them to leave for good. 

I could care less about what the INTL thinks as long as we are doing what we believe in, i.e. standing with the Egyptian people.

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## Serpentine

hussain0216 said:


> To be fair they have just been gunned down, hundreds of Muslims have been attacked and killed by the military
> 
> Don't you think they have the right to defend themselves against such massacre



I absolutely disagree with what security forces are doing, but if they pick up arms, the number of casualties will multiply and it will probably lead to a civil war.


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## islamrules

*the Swedish foreign affairs minister *

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## islamrules




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## agentny17

islamrules said:


> well, u only killed 200 *shahid *and injured 5000 , *millions *more to go .



Terrorists............. No millions, not even close!!



Yzd Khalifa said:


> Well,
> 
> KSA didn't take sides during Jan 25th revolution, but Egypt's public opinion had changed a little bit regarding KSA. But this time, we really can't help the MB as the Egyptian people wanted them to leave for good.
> 
> I could care less about what the INTL thinks as long as we are doing what we believe in, i.e. standing with the Egyptian people.


Respect!! .


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## agentny17

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> All tyrants have the same logic. That tyranic logic never will change. No matter Sisi,Assad, Mubarak, Kaddafi..etc. They only rely on power to scatter people. No respect to the democratic will of pepople and no respect to demands of majority.
> 
> Foreigners bribed gen. Pissi is sinking into swamp of blood of people Just ike Assad did in Syria. Like all other dictators all he does is trying to fabricate baselles pretexes to legitimate the massacre of people.
> 
> BTW, GCCs monarchies had gained some esteem and prsetige among muslim world by owning and financing Syrians freedom war against the Damascuss buthcer Assad. Now, they are about to losing all these prestige and esteem by owning and financing bloody Military junta in Egypt.
> 
> 
> 
> *Rustic man!...First go and learn something about demaocracy..Then, talk about democracy..You still arent able to distinguish democracy and dictatorship*..


Democracy is not just a ballot box!! Don't expect me to take you seriously if you defend "democracy", and not say a word about human rights violations, and and not respecting separation of power.



Hussein said:


> well it seems you choosed your side
> 
> i guess you didn't understand who can help you but your choice  bye


Are you planning a war against Arabic countries or something ?!! Why would i have to choose between you, and them ?


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## hussain0216

agentny17 said:


> Democracy is not just a ballot box!! Don't expect me to take you seriously if you defend "democracy", and not say a word about human rights violations, and and not respecting separation of power.
> 
> 
> Are you planning a war against Arabic countries or something ?!! Why would i have to choose between you, and them ?



Are you retarded or something

Your talking about democracy by supporting a military coup and a military strong man

You're talking about human rights whilst supporting a military massacre
Massacre of hundreds of innocent unarmed people because you don't ideological agree with them

Your pathetic as are these devious and evil egyptian liberals


----------



## Hussein

agentny17 said:


> Are you planning a war against Arabic countries or something ?!! Why would i have to choose between you, and them ?



1/ i didn't speak about Iran but your friends should be somewhere else if your country acts smart
(i mean of course west and north africa especially )
2/ KSA is not the ALL Arab world : if you think so it regards only your opinion
3/ i didn't speak about war but thanking only these countries and choosing countries to thank 
show your allegeance: your choice which i don't understand since i am a secular muslim (my only opinion)
(which is then again very different than Iran which i am not speaking about here)
4/ they are many victims and many innocent ones it seems
don't happy of death of people : some of them of course didn't deserve to die
there should be a dialogue that you should try
i guess it is one thing many countries are trying to say you 
tc


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## agentny17

hussain0216 said:


> Are you retarded or something
> 
> Your talking about democracy by supporting a military coup and a military strong man
> 
> You're talking about human rights whilst supporting a military massacre
> Massacre of hundreds of innocent unarmed people because you don't ideological agree with them
> 
> Your pathetic as are these devious and evil egyptian liberals



Can't get a 9 years old where you at ?!! I can feel some frustration. Stick to your country, if you have no idea about what you are talking about

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## babajees

Sad day!! Egypt forces mercilessly killing unarmed protestors.

What is the difference between Israel and Egypt forces? NONE. Both shoot to un armed protestors!!

Another video of police shooting with live ammunition:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=608234275877385&set=vb.196209623864490&type=2&theater





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=608234275877385


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## agentny17

Hussein said:


> 1/ i didn't speak about Iran but your friends should be somewhere else if your country acts smart
> (i mean of course west and north africa especially )
> 2/ KSA is not the ALL Arab world : if you think so it regards only your opinion
> 3/ i didn't speak about war but thanking only these countries and choosing countries to thank
> show your allegeance: your choice which i don't understand since i am a secular muslim (my only opinion)
> (which is then again very different than Iran which i am not speaking about here)
> 4/ they are many victims and many innocent ones it seems
> don't happy of death of people : some of them of course didn't deserve to die
> there should be a dialogue that you should try
> i guess it is one thing many countries are trying to say you
> tc


Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordon, and UAE have had very good relations for such a long time. My take doesn't change that fact!!! I was barely thanking them for their stand with the Egyptian people, while other countries didn't. Qatar and Turkey for example!!


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## BLACKEAGLE

I'm speechless. Now I believe that ousting Mubarak wasn't a good idea, some of us don't even understand what are freedom and democracy mean.

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## hussain0216

I cant believe how moronic the egyptians have been

All they had to do was sit back and allow the democratic process to take root

Democracy would be imperfect and weak with imperfect president and governments

But these imperfect president and governments including morsi had to be given time to fail

Until the democratic process would take root and a political balance achieved this may take a decade or two


The egyptians have just been idiotic allowing a corrupt military and even more pathetic liberal kaffir elite to walk their country towards chaos and murder


They are gunning down innocent human beings

The egyptian scum military is built to oppress its people and is no different to the jew israeli army


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## BLACKEAGLE




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## islamrules

babajees said:


> Sad day!! Egypt forces mercilessly killing unarmed protestors.
> 
> What is the difference between Israel and Egypt forces? NONE. Both shoot to un armed protestors!!
> 
> Another video of police shooting with live ammunition:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=608234275877385&set=vb.196209623864490&type=2&theater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=608234275877385


the jewish army is the only one that is not killing its own people

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## agentny17

hussain0216 said:


> I cant believe how moronic the egyptians have been
> 
> All they had to do was sit back and allow the democratic process to take root
> 
> Democracy would be imperfect and weak with imperfect president and governments
> 
> But these imperfect president and governments including morsi had to be given time to fail
> 
> Until the democratic process would take root and a political balance achieved this may take a decade or two
> 
> 
> The egyptians have just been idiotic allowing a corrupt military and even more pathetic liberal kaffir elite to walk their country towards chaos and murder
> 
> 
> They are gunning down innocent human beings
> 
> The egyptian scum military is built to oppress its people and is no different to the jew israeli army



I am sorry for your loss!!

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## olcayto

agentny17 said:


> I am sorry for your loss!!



How can you be so cruel against your own people? 

Doesn't it bother you at all that they are committing a massacre on your own people? 
Whatever their ideology is, they still remain Egyptian.

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## Frogman

> I cant believe how moronic the egyptians have been



Nor can I. How could Morsi generate such numbers against him and alienate a nation in the space of a year when it took the regime before him 30 years to generate less than a third of those numbers.



> All they had to do was sit back and allow the democratic process to take root



Yeah just sit back and allow all the nations institutions to be Akhwanized and for the presidency to rack up legislative and prerogative powers while ignoring the opposition and plunging the nation into sectarian strife elsewhere. Sounds like the foundations to a real democratic process.



> But these imperfect president and governments including morsi had to be given time to fail



Morsi was the illegitimate ruler of Egypt when he gave himslef unlimited powers and ordered his goons to attack and kill protestors at Alattahidiya with the help of the security forces and encircle the constitutional court so it couldn't make a verdict.

It seems you have a case of selective memory as many others do on this thread. Blood is nothing new in Egypt and it flows from many sects.



> Until the democratic process would take root and a political balance achieved this may take a decade or two



Im sure we would all have loved an elected dictatorship for a decade or two.



> The egyptians have just been idiotic allowing a corrupt military and even more pathetic liberal kaffir elite to walk their country towards chaos and murder



Do you have proof of military corruption? or are you just assuming.

Your insistence on using slanderous phrases and the Takfir of Muslims shows how much of a bigoted half wit you are. You're also incredibly politically naive.



> They are gunning down innocent human beings



So why werent you outraged and complaining on forums and posting pictures and videos when Maspero happened or when Mahammed Mahmoud happened or when Al3abasiya happened, WHERE WERE YOU?

A selective memory and conscious.



> The egyptian scum military is built to oppress its people and is no different to the jew israeli army



Says someone who has no Idea about the Egyptian military or how it operates.

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## agentny17

olcayto said:


> How can you be so cruel against your own people?
> 
> Doesn't it bother you at all that they are committing a massacre on your own people?
> Whatever their ideology is, they still* remain Egyptian*.


Very doubtful!! That is the main point.

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## olcayto

agentny17 said:


> Very doubtful!! That is the main point.



What's doubtful about it? 

All those people that were massacred , are foreigners?


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## Frogman

> What's doubtful about it?
> 
> All those people that were massacred , are foreigners?



The MB and their affiliates have a questionable national allegiance and that's why many Egyptians don't see them as Egyptians. They do not believe in nation states and the concept of the nation rather they seek a caliphate. To many the only connection they have to being Egyptian is birth and genetics.

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## agentny17

olcayto said:


> What's doubtful about it?
> 
> All those people that were massacred , are foreigners?


Egyptians don't really consider Islamists to be Egyptians!! Ask Islamists if they consider they consider themselves Ikhwanis(Muslim Brotherhood), or Salafis first, or Egyptians first then get back to me. Egypt to them is just an Eyalet not an independent country with its own heritage, borders and system.

The former Supreme guide of the Muslim brotherhoond said in 2005 that a Muslim Indonesian is closer to them than a christian Egyptian and they would rather have a Muslim Indonesian in power in Egypt than a christian Egyptian. He also said to hell with Egypt because the goal is the whole Islamic world. I am not making these stuff up, these are documented facts that a lot of Egyptians know about.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

olcayto said:


> What's doubtful about it?
> 
> All those people that were massacred , are foreigners?


they dont consider themselves Egyptians

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## T-123456

There will allways be some knowitalls but its your country so you know whats good for you,lets hope all will be good soon.

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## VelocuR

It is sad situations in Egypt, we hope it will solve asap!

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## MooshMoosh

@agentny17 you are sick man, the stupid moment when you said democracy will happen in Egypt  what an idiot, anyway not surprising here since you are a Nasserist, Socialist d*cks, doesn't care how many people died even if it's a "peaceful protest" by Pros which had happened night ago. BTW, the firaun Sisi is referring terrorist to the millions supporters of Pro Morsi and Pro so called democracy who seeks to impose in Muslim country. Have you not remember Assad slaughtered 110 people on the first day of the PEACEFUL protest then what happened next? so, STFU.

children killed




summarizing the massacre






















Protest against massacre erupted bigger "down with military regime"

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## olcayto

@MooshMoosh

&#304; had to ask from your countrymate's

Do you consider yourself a Egyptian? Will you ever betray, sell out or harm your nation for any reason?


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## hussain0216

Sisi, the egyptian army and the liberal scum elite are neither egyptian nor Muslims

These kaffir will suck the blood of Muslims in Egypt until you finish them

The Muslims of Egypt need to remain United and rise up against these haramiis 

Do not let them govern, spoil their plans


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## Frogman

hussain0216 said:


> Sisi, the egyptian army and the liberal scum elite are neither egyptian nor Muslims
> 
> These kaffir will suck the blood of Muslims in Egypt until you finish them
> 
> The Muslims of Egypt need to remain United and rise up against these haramiis
> 
> Do not let them govern, spoil their plans



Was he a liberal scum elite and a kuffar and deserved to die for opposing Morsi?


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## babajees

MooshMoosh said:


> @agentny17 you are sick man, the stupid moment when you said democracy will happen in Egypt  what an idiot, anyway not surprising here since you are a Nasserist, Socialist d*cks, doesn't care how many people died even if it's a "peaceful protest" by Pros which had happened night ago. BTW, the firaun Sisi is referring terrorist to the millions supporters of Pro Morsi and Pro so called democracy who seeks to impose in Muslim country. Have you not remember Assad slaughtered 110 people on the first day of the PEACEFUL protest then what happened next? so, STFU.
> 
> children killed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> summarizing the massacre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protest against massacre erupted bigger "down with military regime"



No use. The blind will stay blind. They'll justify the killing of 200 innocents. Egypt's American backed president said Army/Police didn't use live rounds. Lols. Wonder they were angles who shot them? And all the videos are fake! shame on corrupt and immoral egypt army. For so many years now, they have been western stooges. 

Now if the Egyptian People will retailiate and use force for revenge, world will wake up and say.. Look, look terrorists! but remains silent on Army massacare of Muslims!

Even Elbaradi (the US stooge, who wrote a fake report paving a pay for Iraq war, who got only 2% of vote) said excessive force has been used! Wonder how he sleeps at night!


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## Doritos11

hussain0216 said:


> Sisi, the egyptian army and the liberal scum elite are neither egyptian nor Muslims
> 
> These kaffir will suck the blood of Muslims in Egypt until you finish them
> 
> The Muslims of Egypt need to remain United and rise up against these haramiis
> 
> Do not let them govern, spoil their plans



Who exactly are you to use those words, call others kuffar and tell people they will go to hell ?

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## hussain0216

You are the quresh

You have stolen Egypt, the Muslims will neither forgive or forget what you have done

Like assad and gadaffi it is only a matter of time before you fall

The Muslims of Egypt will foil your plans and not let you govern and steal the nation


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## Nike

agentny17 said:


> Egyptians don't really consider Islamists to be Egyptians!! Ask Islamists if they consider they consider themselves Ikhwanis(Muslim Brotherhood), or Salafis first, or Egyptians first then get back to me. Egypt to them is just an Eyalet not an independent country with its own heritage, borders and system.
> 
> The former Supreme guide of the Muslim brotherhoond said in 2005 that a Muslim Indonesian is closer to them than a christian Egyptian and they would rather have a Muslim Indonesian in power in Egypt than a christian Egyptian. He also said to hell with Egypt because the goal is the whole Islamic world. I am not making these stuff up, these are documented facts that a lot of Egyptians know about.



Wuahaha  what an irony, in here PKS (Partai Keadilan Sejahtera/Justice and Prosperity Party) an Ikhwanul Muslimin branch in Indonesia always look Moorsi and their friends in Egypt is in higher position than our President (Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono) right now i must made it clear not all of Indonesian Moslem is PKS/Ikhwanul Moslem affiliated. And right now our President give them a harsh lesson, in wich he is carefully and diligently made the reputation of PKS hit the ground to the lowest and break their mental with blow up scandal involved their high rank politician in sex gratification and corruptions cases. 

In Indonesia, right now PKS is perceived as the most corrupted and Sex addict known Party, and they will have a harsh road in 2014 elections. 

When we are talking about fundamentalist idea they had, we just can say they are parasites in our Nationalist Country in which will made our country back to Stone Ages with their abrupt idea about government and Nationalism institutions. Good Job for Military of Egypt, those parasites must be wipe out before too late.

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## hussain0216

Doritos11 said:


> Who exactly are you to use those words, call others kuffar and tell people they will go to hell ?



They are acting like kaffir, what other word would you use to describe these traitors


----------



## Doritos11

hussain0216 said:


> They are acting like kaffir, what other word would you use to describe these traitors



What&#8217;s your point, do you want another civil war ?


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## Frogman

> Even Elbaradi (the US stooge, who wrote a fake report paving a pay for Iraq war, who got only 2% of vote) said excessive force has been used! Wonder how he sleeps at night!



The stupidity.....

Elbaradei was the principle player in not allowing a UN resolution to pass for military action in Iraq. He declared that Iraq had complied with all IAEA requests and that there was no evidence of WMD in Iraq. The invasion was illegal and he said that the day the coalition invaded was "the saddest day" his life. Elbaradei also didn't contest presidential elections. 
@MooshMoosh

I would appreciate it if you learned what a political ideology entails before slamming it. Im a liberal and I condemn the killing of peaceful protesters from both the military/security forces and the MB.

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## Aegis DDG

hussain0216 said:


> They are acting like kaffir, what other word would you use to describe these traitors



What kind of people are they breeding in the UK!? No wonder attacks from the EDL and BNP rhetoric is on the rise...

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## Nike

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> they dont consider themselves Egyptians



Same with Ikhwanul Moslem of Indonesia, they don't consider themselves as Indonesians but rather they will bow their head to some Middle East foreigner in which hardly known for Indonesian peoples. They are trash, lower than parasites. And made it easy, our Soeharto president had killing about 5000 to 10000 Islamist hardline like them in the past, casualty is just matter of number. Like what Stalin had said, no peoples no problems at all.

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## hussain0216

Doritos11 said:


> What&#8217;s your point, do you want another civil war ?



What is the other option, the military are gunning down innocent Muslims in prayer

The copts and the liberals are surrounding mosques and attacking the faithful

The right to self defence is allowed in islam

Why should the Muslims sit back and take this slaughter


----------



## olcayto

madokafc said:


> Same with Ikhwanul Moslem of Indonesia, they don't consider themselves as Indonesians but rather they will bow their head to some Middle East foreigner in which hardly known for Indonesian peoples. They are trash, lower than parasites. And made it easy, our Soeharto president had killing about 5000 to 10000 Islamist hardline like them in the past, casualty is just matter of number. Like what Stalin had said, no peoples no problems at all.



Go hang yourself up ok?

&#304; hope you also agree to the politional actions of the Dutch then?
No people, no problems at all. So the massacres on the &#304;ndonesians of the Dutch state was a good action.


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## Frogman

Aegis DDG said:


> What kind of people are they breeding in the UK!? No wonder attacks from the EDL and BNP rhetoric is on the rise...




Its these sort of cretins that give perfectly decent Muslims in Britain and the world a bad name.


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## Sedqal

S00R3NA said:


> The same thing happened in Syria 2 years ago and US / Europe / PGCC backed terrorists went for Jihad against Assad , I just wonder if those freedom fighters want to do their holy duty in Egypt or their masters are not going to let them .
> 
> The US and west and their puppets such as Saudi Arabia and Qatar are playing people in ME which is totally in favor of Israel . Unfortunately the same sh!t might happen in Tunisia and Libya .



The game started with Iraq but since that suited Iran it is never mentioned 

Anyway I am thoroughly amazed at some Egyptian chaps here the world is sorrow at the loss of human life and they are discussing if those killed were Egyptian enough.


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## Aegis DDG

Frogman said:


> Its these sort of cretins that give perfectly decent Muslims in Britain and the world a bad name.



I noticed. Stupid EDL goons would love to take advantage of these type of people. What's hypocritical is that radicals (not normal muslims) love to hype about the greatness of the MB and the evils of western freedom and liberty while enjoying the same freedom of speech to make remakes against modern civil society.

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## Nike

olcayto said:


> What's doubtful about it?
> 
> All those people that were massacred , are foreigners?



They just parasites who still keep using state facility like gov.job, premier educations, hospital, clinic, state fund health, state insurrances and so on, but they keep bragging about some lunatic visions of Moslem Caliphate and trying and pushing to disolve their own country in which had a long historical background. Even Christian and secular Moslem Egyptian is the most bravest mans of all Arabs because they had withstanding against Zionism in the past and future.

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## Frogman

> Anyway I am thoroughly amazed at some Egyptian chaps here the world is sorrow at the loss of human life and they are discussing if those killed were Egyptian enough.



Someone asked why some Egyptian members do not recognize those who support the MB as Egyptians and they answered. Perosnally, I don't care if they are Egyptian or not. No one deserves to die while protesting peacefully. Although that doesn't mean the security forces were unprovoked(still should be condemned though) .

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## hussain0216

Frogman said:


> Its these sort of cretins that give perfectly decent Muslims in Britain and the world a bad name.



It's your kind of retarded scum

Who has kept the Muslim world as slaves, you grow rich leeching off the blood of the people mubarak gadaffi assad saddam

Billionaire scum only concerned for themselves with a ***** rich scum elite giving support


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## Nike

olcayto said:


> Go hang yourself up ok?
> 
> &#304; hope you also agree to the politional actions of the Dutch then?
> No people, no problems at all. So the massacres on the &#304;ndonesians of the Dutch state was a good action.



What about the massacre of the Greece and the Bulgary had done to you in the past? Still had a hurt do you?


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## Doritos11

hussain0216 said:


> What is the other option, the military are gunning down innocent Muslims in prayer
> 
> The copts and the liberals are surrounding mosques and attacking the faithful
> 
> The right to self defence is allowed in islam
> 
> Why should the Muslims sit back and take this slaughter



lol, you suggesting civil war, wtf am I supposed to answer to that, nevermind I leave this topic.


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## Aegis DDG

hussain0216 said:


> What is the other option, the military are gunning down innocent Muslims in prayer
> *
> The copts and the liberals *are surrounding mosques and attacking the faithful
> 
> The right to self defence is allowed in islam
> 
> Why should the Muslims sit back and take this slaughter



Look how two faced you already became. You condemn attacks like this towards your fellow 'Ikwans' but would love to 'defend' your fellow MBs by counter-attacking normal Egyptian liberals and minority groups like the Copts. You hate liberalism but you live in the very nation that gave the world the founder of modern liberal ideas (John locke and Adam Smith). The fact Britain is an liberal society found on liberal values and economic freedom policies has enables you make these types of statements. If the UK was not liberal and was just as autocratic as an typical mainland European nation during the 19th century then you would be cecored and arrested for these posts that encourage sectrain violence.

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## Arzamas 16

hussain0216 said:


> You are the quresh
> 
> You have stolen Egypt, the Muslims will neither forgive or forget what you have done
> 
> Like *assad* and gadaffi it is only a matter of time before you fall
> 
> The Muslims of Egypt will foil your plans and not let you govern and steal the nation




Assad hasn't fallen yet you imbecile, and only reason Gaddafi was toppled was *because NATO intervened,-----> FACT* 


NATO isn't coming too rescue you retards this time *we made sure of that*


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## Frogman

> It's your kind of retarded scum



Says the member who brandishes British flags yet has no concept of proper grammar or spelling. 



> Who has kept the Muslim world as slaves, you grow rich leeching off the blood of the people mubarak gadaffi assad saddam



I'm nineteen years old and will have about -£10000 to my name when I start university in the coming months. The MB leadership are also incredibly wealthy.



> Billionaire scum only concerned for themselves with a ***** rich scum elite giving support



Go ask Khayrat Alshater how much hes worth.



> I noticed. Stupid EDL goons would love to take advantage of these type of people. What's hypocritical is that radicals (not normal muslims) love to hype about the greatness of the MB and the evils of western freedom and liberty while enjoying the same freedom of speech to make remakes against modern civil society.



Believes in freedom of religion and speech in the UK but not in his native lands. They also seem to have a rather bad case of selective memory disorder and at times verbal diarrhea mixed with a wayward conscious and a moral compass which points south.

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## olcayto

madokafc said:


> What about the massacre of the Greece and the Bulgary had done to you in the past? Still had a hurt do you?



Greece and bulgary?

Again, &#304; don't approve of any massacre at all. You on the other hand think it's allowed as long as you massacre people of a certain group ( in this case someone who doesn't fit your vision).


As long as it is the opposition, massacre is allowed. This was exactly the way of thinking of the Dutch state.
This was exactly the reason why so many innocent &#304;ndonesians died.


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## hussain0216

Ok then how should the Muslims of Egypt defend themselves

They voted
They partook in free and fair elections
The party and president they chose got into power

The corrupt deep state swung into action making governance impossible planning a coup using the liberal scum and copts as cover

Muslim's peacefully protest and are gunned down in the hundreds

Go on then tell me what they should do



Arzamas 16 said:


> Assad hasn't fallen yet you imbecile, and only reason Gaddafi was toppled was because NATO intervened, NATO isn't coming too rescue you retards this time *we made sure of that*



Assad will fall just like the Muslims of your nation will increase


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## Aegis DDG

hussain0216 said:


> Ok then how should the Muslims of Egypt defend themselves
> 
> They voted
> They partook in free and fair elections
> The party and president they chose got into power
> 
> The corrupt deep state swung into action making governance impossible planning a coup using the liberal scum and copts as cover
> 
> Muslim's peacefully protest and are gunned down in the hundreds
> 
> Go on then tell me what they should do
> 
> 
> 
> Assad will fall just like the Muslims of your nation will increase



Crazy Right Wing people, not just MB's and salafist, tend to claim such notion's that they are targeted. When not in power they play the victim game. But we all know what happens if they get to power, even democratically... it's an one vote, one time ticket to autocratic hell.

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## hussain0216

Aegis DDG said:


> Look how two faced you already became. You condemn attacks like this towards your fellow 'Ikwans' but would love to 'defend' your fellow MBs by counter-attacking normal Egyptian liberals and minority groups like the Copts. You hate liberalism but you live in the very nation that gave the world the founder of modern liberal ideas (John locke and Adam Smith). The fact Britain is an liberal society found on liberal values and economic freedom policies has enables you make these types of statements. If the UK was not liberal and was just as autocratic as an typical mainland European nation during the 19th century then you would be cecored and arrested for these posts that encourage sectrain violence.



So if I have free speech, then what's the problem, with using my right to speak to defend the Muslims of Egypt

The so called liberals of Egypt have disposed of a democratic government and partaken in a illegal military coup

They are now supporting the massacre of hundreds of Muslims

If you can't use free speech to speak out against that then what use is free speech


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## Frogman

> Ok then how should the Muslims of Egypt defend themselves
> 
> They voted
> They partook in free and fair elections
> The party and president they chose got into power
> 
> The corrupt deep state swung into action making governance impossible planning a coup using the liberal scum and copts as cover
> 
> Muslim's peacefully protest and are gunned down in the hundreds
> 
> Go on then tell me what they should do



Someone else can answer your queries but I want to ask you a question.

Why has the Salafi Nour party abandoned the MB and its affiliates and agreed to partake in the upcoming elections? Are they not Islamists? are they Kuffars? is the Azhar a Kuffar institution?

The Nour party split from the Islamist coalition a few months back.


----------



## hussain0216

Aegis DDG said:


> Crazy Right Wing people, not just MB's and salafist, tend to claim such notion's that they are targeted. When not in power they play the victim game. But we all know what happens if they get to power, even democratically... it's an one vote, one time ticket to autocratic hell.



But you're just talking B.S

Hundreds have just been massacred by the military, an elected government has been overthrown, and a president arrested and detained on trumped up charges

I think the victim card is theirs to play

Why should they respect democracy or the democratic mandate when the same respect isn't given to them


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## Nike

olcayto said:


> Greece and bulgary?
> 
> Again, &#304; don't approve of any massacre at all. You on the other hand think it's allowed as long as you massacre people of a certain group ( in this case someone who doesn't fit your vision).
> 
> 
> As long as it is the opposition, massacre is allowed. This was exactly the way of thinking of the Dutch state.
> This was exactly the reason why so many innocent &#304;ndonesians died.



In our long history, Indonesians (bumiputra) had killing more Indonesian people than the Dutch had done to us in the past. This mentality perhaps one of the major reasons for the surviving of Indonesian culture and heritage until this day. I can't say i will take a proud about this barbaric act but sometimes a harsh measures must be taken to guarantee the survival of our identity.

And dont pretend the Turks is innocent too, what about the Kurdish and Armenian cases the killing is must be must worsen than Indonesian communist genocide taken in 1965. As what i said before, a harsh action must be taken to guarantee the survival of Country and her identity and culture. And you can said why Westerling (the perperator of Makassar killing, which left 40000 peoples die) had a nickname "The Turks".


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## Aegis DDG

hussain0216 said:


> So if I have free speech, then what's the problem, with using my right to speak to defend the Muslims of Egypt
> 
> The so called liberals of Egypt have disposed of a democratic government and partaken in a illegal military coup
> 
> They are now supporting the massacre of hundreds of Muslims
> 
> If you can't use free speech to speak out against that then what use is free speech



Where did I mention that I supported the coup? I disagree with the coup to be honest, it's goes against the rule of law. And the Rule of Law is one the things that Egypt lacks, hence failure of democracy (whether from an Military coup or an Theocratic seizure of the legislative body). What Egypt needs is not military take overs or Elected religious officials that damage the economy but an good civil law system and an effective judiciary that is not corrupted from military officials or party officials. If your buddies have something to complain about then complain about the rule of law...


----------



## hussain0216

Frogman said:


> Someone else can answer your queries but I want to ask you a question.
> 
> Why has the Salafi Nour party abandoned the MB and its affiliates and agreed to partake in the upcoming elections? Are they not Islamists? are they Kuffars? is the Azhar a Kuffar institution?
> 
> The Nour party split from the Islamist coalition a few months back.



Their behaviour is traitorous and unislamic

Shameful in Ramadan

The only people acting like Muslims in Egypt are the Muslim brothers

God willing the M.B righteous stance will convince all the faithful to support them and bring down the fake government and military


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## Arzamas 16

> Assad will fall just



Sure Sure you donkeys have been saying that for last 2.5 years, *let me know when it happans*.




> like the Muslims of your nation will increase



On January 1, 2015 the strongest immigration laws in Europe will come into effect in Russia, don't be don't be surprised if your numbers start to decrease


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## olcayto

madokafc said:


> In our long history, Indonesians (bumiputra) had killing more Indonesian people than the Dutch had done to us in the past. This mentality perhaps one of the major reasons for the surviving of Indonesian culture and heritage until this day. I can't say i will take a proud about this barbaric act but sometimes a harsh measures must be taken to guarantee the survival of our identity.
> 
> And dont pretend the Turks is innocent too, what about the Kurdish and Armenian cases the killing is must be must worsen than Indonesian communist genocide taken in 1965. As what i said before, a harsh action must be taken to guarantee the survival of Country and her identity and culture. And you can said why Westerling (the perperator of Makassar killing, which left 40000 peoples die) had a nickname "The Turks".



Mate like &#304; said. &#304;'m not the one justifying any kind of massacres. &#304;'m against any kind of massacre.

You on the other hand are saying that people should be massacred depending on the ideology or beliefs.
Then &#304; ask you were the Dutch right to massacre the &#304;ndonesians?


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## Aegis DDG

hussain0216 said:


> Their behaviour is traitorous and unislamic
> 
> Shameful in Ramadan
> 
> The only people acting like Muslims in Egypt are the Muslim brothers
> 
> *God willing the M.B righteous stance will convince all the faithful to support them and bring down the fake government and military*



If that happens, will the MB establish the rule of law? Help reconstruct the economy and focus on education, infastructure, health care etc instead of Syria? Will copt's and liberals have representation in the legislation? Will the Legislative powers have strong opposition groups? Will society be secular and have civil law's for all?


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## Frogman

hussain0216 said:


> Their behaviour is traitorous and unislamic
> 
> Shameful in Ramadan
> 
> The only people acting like Muslims in Egypt are the Muslim brothers
> 
> God willing the M.B righteous stance will convince all the faithful to support them and bring down the fake government and military



According to you. Okay.

You should probably consult a (proper) sheik on the Hadith in which one of the Sahaba had to quell a rebellion of those who followed him and what his response to those who called those rebels either Kuffars or Munafiqeen. Alsalam3aliykom ya akhi.

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## MooshMoosh

Calr Bildt is a Sweeish ambassador of Egypt and look who made excuses...






@Jamaal Yelmaaz

Look who first condemned it. 

Turkey's Erdogan slams EU for stance on Egypt bloodshed he said it because media and western govts face double standard on his country but no Egypt.

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## hussain0216

Aegis DDG said:


> Where did I mention that I supported the coup? I disagree with the coup to be honest, it's goes against the rule of law. And the Rule of Law is one the things that Egypt lacks, hence failure of democracy (whether from an Military coup or an Theocratic seizure of the legislative body). What Egypt needs is not military take overs or Elected religious officials that damage the economy but an good civil layw system and an effective judiciary that is not corrupted from military officials or party officials. If your buddies have something to complain about then complain about the rule of law...



Democracy isn't implemented over night

It's a process that takes time, for the first attempt at democracy in Egypt you could expect imperfections

But this isn't about that, this is about the utter lack of respect for the democratic mandate the government had. 

The deep state in collusion with the military and liberal elite overthrowing a democratically elected regime and destroying egypts chance at democracy


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## MooshMoosh

Anyway back to the massacre. From 0:00 to 0:40 people walk then unexpectdly what happ......


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## islamrules

Frogman said:


> Was he a liberal scum elite and a kuffar and deserved to die for opposing Morsi?



Liar !!! 
how could u live with urself , here is shaykh Imad 'fat's little daughter Sumaya in Rabi'a square serving the pro Morsi protesters 




how much of ur humanity have u lost to lie such a lie on him ?!!

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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> Liar !!!
> how could u live with urself , here is shaykh Imad 'fat's little daughter Sumaya in Rabi'a square serving the pro Morsi protesters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how much of ur humanity have u lost to lie such a lie on him ?!!



So tell me. At which event did he die and who was he protesting with?


----------



## hussain0216

Arzamas 16 said:


> Sure Sure you donkeys have been saying that for last 2.5 years, *let me know when it happans*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On January 1, 2015 the strongest immigration laws in Europe will come into effect in Russia, don't be don't be surprised if your numbers start to decrease



Assad will fall its a matter of time

The Muslims in Russia will increase they don't need immigration


----------



## Aegis DDG

hussain0216 said:


> *Democracy isn't implemented over night*
> 
> It's a process that takes time, for the first attempt at democracy in Egypt you could expect imperfections
> 
> But this isn't about that, this is about the utter lack of respect for the democratic mandate the government had.
> 
> The deep state in collusion with the military and liberal elite overthrowing a democratically elected regime and destroying egypts chance at democracy



Exactly my point, I guess we do agree with something. But the MB was pushing the bounties of power before the military interfered. Maybe instead complaining about the coup, you should asking your self why didn't the MB make important reforms like the separation of power's and economic liberalization and tackling inflation+ Rising staple food prices instead of wasting time over Syria crisis and debates on shriah law.


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## hussain0216

Frogman said:


> According to you. Okay.
> 
> You should probably consult a (proper) sheik on the Hadith in which one of the Sahaba had to quell a rebellion of those who followed him and what his response to those who called those rebels either Kuffars or Munafiqeen. Alsalam3aliykom ya akhi.



Don't you dare talk about islam you *****

People like you would have sided with the quresh to kill the sahaba and early Muslim's


----------



## Frogman

> The reason he said it because of the double standard of the media and the Western govts who watch Turkish protest too much but not Egypt:



Talking of double standards. Where was his condemnation of the security forces and the MB militias which killed over 100 Egyptians under MB rule and for that matter wheres your condemnation of those events?


----------



## Nike

olcayto said:


> Mate like &#304; said. &#304;'m not the one justifying any kind of massacres. &#304;'m against any kind of massacre.
> 
> You on the other hand are saying that people should be massacred depending on the ideology or beliefs.
> *Then &#304; ask you were the Dutch right to massacre the &#304;ndonesians?*



All is fair in war and love

Just like what i said before, the Dutch feel if Indonesia was their colony like in the past. And Indonesian Nationalist feel they had gaining their freedom and independence. Thus the war between two countries followed, Indonesian Nationalist massacred the Dutch sympathizer amonk the ranks of local populations thus the Dutch was revenged by killing the Nationalist sympathizer in our countries, but long after the war the respective countries (Indonesia and Dutch) give their symbolic apologies for the atrocites happened in our War of Independence and the resentment between two countries had fade away a long time ago. In war and social revolution everything can be happen, you just cannot live by some uthopian idea of peaceful transition of government, or Nation. In France, revolution must be happen by three stages of bloodbath era and chaotic conditions followed aftermath. Meiji restoration in Japan must be passed Boshin war before the modernization of Japan can taking place. Turkey revolution too, they had some chaotic conditions and bloodbath followed their transitions to became of modern Turkiye we all known right now.


----------



## Frogman

hussain0216 said:


> Don't you dare talk about islam you *****
> 
> People like you would have sided with the quresh to kill the sahaba and early Muslim's



Suddenly you have no tolerance of other views. Weren't you speaking of freedom just a few posts ago?

As for the second comment I would doubt that. If anything I would have been one of the first converts to Islam being a liberal. 

We have nothing further to discuss. Plus, you should probably take a trip down to regents park mosque if you're in London.


----------



## hussain0216

Aegis DDG said:


> Exactly my point, I guess we do agree with something. But the MB was pushing the bounties of power before the military interfered. Maybe instead complaining about the coup, you should asking your self why didn't the MB make important reforms like the separation of power's and economic liberalization and tackling inflation+ Rising staple food prices instead of wasting time over Syria crisis and debates on shriah law.



Look through the time in power of the brotherhood

Governance was made impossible for them they were opposed at every single turn, implementing even the most simple things was turned into a monumental task

The deep state itself acted against the government knowing that simply reducing the supply of fuel and other basics would push Egypt to the brink

Instead of governance the M.B had to go to mammoth tasks simply to survive

And finally the coup occurred

They were given under one year with unsumountable obstacles to fix a nation suffering from decades of mismanagement


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## Arzamas 16

hussain0216 said:


> Assad will fall its a matter of time



We see about that.



> The Muslims in Russia will increase they don't need immigration



The birth rate of biggest muslim group in Russia the *Tatars* is below that of ethnic Russians, same thing is happening with every other muslim ethnic group in Russia every year their birth rate decreases, while Russian birth rate increases. Like I said before don't be surprised to see in the near future to see your numbers start decreasing.


----------



## islamrules

16 December 2011 in the First Minister events (wikipedia) , that mean he was martyred before u even knew a man called Morsi. what now ? r u going to claim the MB killed him in 2011 because they knew he would oppose Morsi in 2012 ???


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## hussain0216

Frogman said:


> Suddenly you have no tolerance of other views. Weren't you speaking of freedom just a few posts ago?
> 
> As for the second comment I would doubt that. If anything I would have been one of the first converts to Islam being a liberal.
> 
> We have nothing further to discuss. Plus, you should probably take a trip down to regents park mosque if you're in London.



I have tolerance for people's views I just don't want to hear about islam from the likes of you

You people have given up that right when you besieged mosques


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## Frogman

> 16 December 2011 in the First Minister events (wikipedia) , that mean he was martyred before u even knew a man called Morsi. what now ? r u going to claim the MB killed him in 2011 because they knew he would oppose Morsi in 2012 ???



My apologies then. I was misinformed.


----------



## hussain0216

Arzamas 16 said:


> We see about that.
> 
> 
> 
> The birth rate of biggest muslim group in Russia the *Tatars* is below that of ethnic Russians, same thing is happening with every othyer muslim ethnic group in Russia every year their birth rate decreases, while Russian birth rate increases. Like I said before don't be surprised to see in the near future to see your numbers start decreasing.



The numbers will increase just watch


----------



## olcayto

madokafc said:


> All is fair in war and love
> 
> Just like what i said before, the Dutch feel if Indonesia was their colony like in the past. And Indonesian Nationalist feel they had gaining their freedom and independence. Thus the war between two countries followed, Indonesian Nationalist massacred the Dutch sympathizer amonk the ranks of local populations thus the Dutch was revenged by killing the Nationalist sympathizer in our countries, but long after the war the respective countries (Indonesia and Dutch) give their symbolic apologies for the atrocites happened in our War of Independence and the resentment between two countries had fade away a long time ago. In war and social revolution everything can be happen, you just cannot live by some uthopian idea of peaceful transition of government, or Nation. In France, revolution must be happen by three stages of bloodbath era and chaotic conditions followed aftermath. Meiji restoration in Japan must be passed Boshin war before the modernization of Japan can taking place. Turkey revolution too, they had some chaotic conditions and bloodbath followed their transitions to became of modern Turkiye we all known right now.



Wow bravo mate , you just become number 1 of most inhumane members on this forum.

Mate the events you summed up are 100+ years ago. 
Welcome to the modern age where massacres will be condemned by the entire world.

Your way of thinking, has no place in this time.
&#304;t sickens me that you approve the massacre of your ancestors who fought hard for the independence of your country.


P.S. 

Dutch government never apologized for the massacres of the &#304;ndonesians.
They flipped their middle fingers to your guys.


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## Arzamas 16

hussain0216 said:


> The numbers will increase just watch




Sure, like watching Assad being toppled for last two years by FSA


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## Frogman

> I have tolerance for people's views I just don't want to hear about islam from the likes of you



From the likes of me?

True liberals in Egypt have been condemning the killing of peaceful protesters for the past few decades (when the MB was busy brown nosing Mubarak) and continue to do so.

Yet I see no condemnation from you when the same things happened under Morsi. All blood is haram is it not?



> You people have given up that right when you besieged mosques



You are truly an imbecile. Have you ever heard of individuality or do Islamists only tend to think in collectivist terms.


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## Aegis DDG

hussain0216 said:


> Look through the time in power of the brotherhood
> 
> Governance was made impossible for them they were opposed at every single turn, implementing even the most simple things was turned into a monumental task
> 
> The deep state itself acted against the government knowing that simply reducing the supply of fuel and other basics would push Egypt to the brink
> 
> Instead of governance the M.B had to go to mammoth tasks simply to survive
> 
> And finally the coup occurred
> 
> They were given under one year with unsumountable obstacles to fix a nation suffering from decades of mismanagement



That's not an excuss. When Roosevelt took over the US office after Pres. Hoover, he made detailed plan's in dealing with the great depression in such an small time frame (6 months). He faced pressure and opposition from all segments of society for his new radical kenysians idea's of state intervention tackle the unemployment issue, food prices and agricultural overproduction (an result of WW1). Republicans opposed him, his own party had disagreements, right wing radios were picking on him yet he got the USA out the depression and ended up elected 3 times. He dealt with the issues of the nation quickly and established an based for economic recovery... New Deal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Nike

olcayto said:


> Wow bravo mate , you just become number 1 of most inhumane members on this forum.
> 
> Mate the events you summed up are 100+ years ago.
> Welcome to the modern age where massacres will be condemned by the entire world.
> 
> Your way of thinking, has no place in this time.
> &#304;t sickens me that you approve the massacre of your ancestors who fought hard for the independence of your country.
> 
> 
> P.S.
> 
> Dutch government never apologized for the massacres of the &#304;ndonesians.
> They flipped their middle fingers to your guys.



Haha, ask the Dutch itself because i had correspondent with some of them. And our Nationalist proud soldier too had massacred so many Dutch sympathizer and Indo European descents in chaotic era of 1945 1950. 

My way of thinking had taking place in modern place so many times altough the world condemn that and you too probably. Rwandan Genocide, Rokhinga Massacre, Tiananmen incident, Sudan civil war/war in Darfur, Indonesian Reformation in 98, Libyan Civil War, Syrian Civil War, the collapse of Yugoslavia, the Breakup of USSR, Irak sectarian war after the US led invasion, Pakistan war in Tribal Area, Colombia FARC war, Afghanistan Civil War , Somaly Civil War and so on of so many killings and genocide rampage around the world why must you Moslem brotherhood crying for just mere 200 casualties wich is just a tiny numbers compare to what happened around the Globe. I think you of all peoples want blow up these issue and casualties (or martyr according to you) as justifying tools or mere excuse against Military of Egypt so you can declare your Jihad and spill more blood of Egyptian Peoples.


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## olcayto

madokafc said:


> Haha, ask the Dutch itself because i had correspondent with some of them. And our Nationalist proud soldier too had massacred so many Dutch sympathizer and Indo European descents in chaotic era of 1945 1950.
> 
> My way of thinking had taking place in modern place so many times altough the world condemn that and you too probably. Rwandan Genocide, Rokhinga Massacre, Tiananmen incident, Sudan civil war/war in Darfur, Indonesian Reformation in 98, Libyan Civil War, Syrian Civil War, the collapse of Yugoslavia, the Breakup of USSR, Irak sectarian war after the US led invasion, Pakistan war in Tribal Area, Colombia FARC war, Afghanistan Civil War , Somaly Civil War and so on of so many killings and genocide rampage around the world why must you Moslem brotherhood crying for just mere 200 casualties wich is just a tiny numbers compare to what happened around the Globe. I think you of all peoples want blow up these issue and casualties (or martyr according to you) as justifying tools or mere excuse against Military of Egypt so you can declare your Jihad and spill more blood of Egyptian Peoples.



Lol don't put words in my mouth. I never said anyone was a martyr, nor did I call for a jihad and I'm sure as hell no Muslim brotherhood supporter. 

You put down all countries that committed massacre. How many of those countries can be considered democratic? 
Your sum up of countries simply proves that massacres has no place in democracy. If a nation wants democracy, it should do it in a democratic way. Not by cleansing the opposition. 

P.s

No really the Dutch government never apologized. Remember I live in the Netherlands.


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## MooshMoosh

olcayto said:


> No really the Dutch government never apologized. Remember *I live in the Netherlands*.


Hmmm, legal weeds there, lay off the space cakes

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

agentny17 said:


> Democracy is not just a ballot box!! Don't expect me to take you seriously if you defend "democracy", and not say a word about human rights violations, and and not respecting separation of power.



Rustic man! i think you r one of old fan of Mubarak and now fan of Pissi..Just like your scum army, Egyptians like you always want to live under dictatorship in order to protect their privileges of elite minority to loot more easily richness of Egypt..So,you are accustomed to sell your national interests to foreigners so that they can help you..

Your scum army's background is full of war defeats and only trained accordingly to serve for dictators not serve for national interests of country. That is why your army has no any national feelings, logics and see democracy as a foe. 

As for democracy, One of the main essenial prenciple of democracy is respecting and accepting the will of majority that originaated through a fair held election...Beside this reality you cant found any kind of democracy but dictatorship..Now that, you r live in US then ask amreicans to teach you little bid things about democracy.. 




MooshMoosh said:


> @Jamaal Yelmaaz
> 
> Look who first condemned it.
> 
> Turkey's Erdogan slams EU for stance on Egypt bloodshed he said it because media and western govts face double standard on his country but no Egypt.



Just watch the big hypocrisy of West media and govs. in June they hardly slammed Turkey since police used water cannons or tear gas against West backed protestors. They defined such interventions as "Horrible, Terrible" for protests of Taksim square in Istanbul.. But now, they are playing the role of the three monkeys. They have been frustrated in Taksim nd will be frusrated in Tahrir as well inshallah...

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## MooshMoosh

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> Just watch the big hypocrisy of West media and govs. in June they hardly slammed Turkey since police used water cannons or tear gas against West backed protestors. They defined such interventions as "Horrible, Terrible" for protests of Taksim square in Istanbul.. But now, they are playing the role of the three monkeys. They have been frustrated in Taksim nd will be frusrated in Tahrir as well inshallah...



Don't bother agentny, he supports military dictatorships. Ameen, inshallah.


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## MooshMoosh



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## Frogman

@MooshMoosh 

Why do you think there were clashes yesterday morning between the MB and security forces yesterday in Cairo?

What was the purpose of the actions of the security forces?


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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> @MooshMoosh
> 
> Why do you think there were clashes yesterday morning between the MB and security forces yesterday in Cairo?
> 
> What was the purpose of the actions of the security forces?


Pissi wanted to get rid of the people because they have been staying outside since the military coup. MB and pro democracy did PEACEFUL protest for reinstation, remember Pissi said he would crush terrorism, he means the supporters so his forces started the brutality. He had placed over 300 islamist policians behind bars for no apparent reason and put in dictatorship yet people think democracy works. What a d*ck

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## olcayto

MooshMoosh said:


> Hmmm, legal weeds there, lay off the space cakes



Now now. 

That I just tried once. 

I came to the conclusion that I don't need another addictiveness besides cigarettes. 
Whenever I want to get drugged I'll just stick to alcohol.

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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> They wanted to get rid of the people because they have been staying outside since the coup. MB did peaceful protest, remember Pissi said he would crush terrorism, he means them.



Well it isn't that. Clearing Rab3a would take thousands of troops to do it effectively from the security forces and the military (who were absent yesterday). There was no indication from the videos or reports that this was a large operation to clear the sit in. The timing would also be wrong, clearing Rab3a at 1Am wouldn't make sense because it would be full of protestors. A noon or early morning operation would be much easier as numbers would be significantly lower and those who left would be denied access to the square. The clashes also occurred quite a distance away from the main sit in. As for your interpretation of Sisis speech I believe it to be wrong but that's another matter. 

Could there be another reason perhaps.


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## VelocuR

Unbelievable a huge numbers protesters killed.....History in Pakistan transformed from dictatorship to democracy today has never witnessed the worst situations in Egypt bloodshed.


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## Nike

olcayto said:


> Lol don't put words in my mouth. I never said anyone was a martyr, nor did I call for a jihad and I'm sure as hell no Muslim brotherhood supporter.
> 
> You put down all countries that committed massacre. How many of those countries can be considered democratic?
> Your sum up of countries simply proves that massacres has no place in democracy. If a nation wants democracy, it should do it in a democratic way. Not by cleansing the opposition.
> 
> P.s
> 
> No really the Dutch government never apologized. Remember I live in the Netherlands.



Haha, democratic country too can be barbarous and commited genocide once they feel it will serves their National interest, don't forget what the US did to Vietnam peoples, or their own people when they are going at all out civil war back in 1865 era, British as a constitutional Country (altough a monarch) they are going and done a lot of Massacres while serving their imperialist deeds around the Globe, France did halfway genocidal act in Algeria, Netherland did commited massacre in Indonesia, Don't forget Rokhingya massacre was done in democratic era of them, democratic non democratic they will always put National interest at first priority.



olcayto said:


> Now now.
> 
> That I just tried once.
> 
> I came to the conclusion that I don't need another addictiveness besides cigarettes.
> Whenever I want to get drugged I'll just stick to alcohol.



Aceh weeds, the other just ***** according some people to me. Though i never using drugs or drinking alcoholic beverage in my life

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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> Well it isn't that. Clearing Rab3a would take thousands of troops to do it effectively from the security forces and the military (who were absent yesterday).
> 
> Could there be another reason perhaps.



They used live ammunition, Turkey didn't. The forces could of use riot vehicles, tear gas and others instead of using bullets to kill. Anyway, they have no control of the people now in Rab3a. The army wrecked it and bolstered the supporters which had increased more and more, even non religious supporters had shown up, going nuts. Aljazeera just aired now massive protesters. Only clueless morons think religious people support MB is an MB but infact it's not true, whereas, non scarves and non beards went there. Despite the fact is not many people is providing any proof in here that who exactly support the MB or democracy. People is still vowing to stay outside and the country is in unrest and still "divided". There is no government as long as the people are out there. Don't use harsh words on them because they are unnarmes protesters. 

Agentny17 is a sc*m who knows nothing and what he sees is terrorist with kalashinikov all over Rab3a Nasr city etc.






















__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10200329806824163





and yet Pissi ignores and plans to kill more people soon... http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/07/2013727125132738818.html

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## MooshMoosh

The difference





note: mb never met any israeli govts or said a single word.

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## BlueWarrior

MooshMoosh said:


> The difference
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> note: mb never met any israeli govts or said a single word.



I have my respect to him but there is no point of showing this because there are Middle Eastern government who are like this who have met American and Israel governments.






























One to Pakistan

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## Hussein

madokafc said:


> Haha, democratic country too can be barbarous and commited genocide once they feel it will serves their National interest, don't forget what the US did to Vietnam peoples, or their own people when they are going at all out civil war back in 1865 era, British as a constitutional Country (altough a monarch) they are going and done a lot of Massacres while serving their imperialist deeds around the Globe, France did halfway genocidal act in Algeria, Netherland did commited massacre in Indonesia, Don't forget Rokhingya massacre was done in democratic era of them, democratic non democratic they will always put National interest at first priority.


it is true but in a democracy it is easier to be judged for massacres and be criticized.
let's take one exemple for France: French people outside Algeria were massively anti war in Algeria . Lot of intellectuals did a lot of actions to stop the war and stop Algeria colonization.
In a dictatorship these intellectuals would have been killed . But yes that doesn't mean a democracy avoids anything.

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## Nike

Hussein said:


> it is true *but in a democracy it is easier to be judged for massacres and be criticized*.
> let's take one exemple for France: French people outside Algeria were massively anti war in Algeria . Lot of intellectuals did a lot of actions to stop the war and stop Algeria colonization.
> In a dictatorship these intellectuals would have been killed . But yes that doesn't mean a democracy avoids anything.



sometimes peoples in a democratic country needs National propaganda to fulfill their need about heroism and patriotism, hence we already know what we called collective consciousness about National agenda. Don't forget Hitler itself was a result of democracy system in Germany, and we already know almost all of adults German citizen support Hitler and NAZI germany decisions especially about Final Solutions .

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## Hussein

madokafc said:


> sometimes peoples in a democratic country needs National propaganda to fulfill their need about heroism and patriotism, hence we already know what we called collective consciousness about National agenda. Don't forget Hitler itself was a result of democracy system in Germany, and we already know almost all of adults German citizen support Hitler and NAZI germany decisions especially about Final Solutions .


Hitler after he was elected destroyed the democracy: it became a total dictatorship
Historian explained that he couldn't do shoah and many things without this total dictatorship: you can find one very clear exemple before shoah : Historians showed a little paper (badly written) : Hitler wrote on it order to kill 100 000 handicap people (for the pure race to save). this would have been impossible in a democracy (i guess you can find on wiki about)

but you're right about heroism and patriotism anyway
thank you for being in this forum. your wife or gf in the avatar?
i remember an Indonesian friend saying me that "in Indonesia we say don't speak abour religion keep it for yourself"
he disappeared two years ago sadly in Jakarta


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## Nike

Hussein said:


> Hitler after he was elected destroyed the democracy: it became a total dictatorship
> Historian explained that he couldn't do shoah and many things without this total dictatorship: you can find one very clear exemple before shoah : Historians showed a little paper (badly written) : Hitler wrote on it order to kill 100 000 handicap people (for the pure race to save). this would have been impossible in a democracy (i guess you can find on wiki about)
> 
> but you're right about heroism and patriotism anyway
> thank you for being in this forum. your wife or gf in the avatar?
> i remember an Indonesian friend saying me that "in Indonesia we say don't speak abour religion keep it for yourself"
> he disappeared two years ago sadly in Jakarta



Wahaha the girl in my avatar is myself . My personality and attitude don't suit for a girl huh? Thats why sometimes people who already know me found if i am talkative and full of badmouth sometimes and they considered me as a bully 

In modern Indonesia, people valued someone from his/her merit and achievement and his/her influence to the people around him/her not from his racial and religion background.

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## Hussein

madokafc said:


> Wahaha the girl in my avatar is myself . My personality and attitude don't suit for a girl huh? Thats why sometimes people who already know me found if i am talkative and full of badmouth sometimes and they considered me as a bully
> 
> In modern Indonesia, people valued someone from his/her merit and achievement and his/her influence to the people around him/her not from his racial and religion background.


i am impressed

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## MooshMoosh

no comment...

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## J dud

wrong thread............


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## MooshMoosh




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## tyrant

MooshMoosh said:


> The difference
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> note: mb never met any israeli govts or said a single word.



Excuse me?
Mursi wrote a letter to Israel calling the Israeli leader his friends with lots of phrases full of LOVE.

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## Frogman

> They used live ammunition, Turkey didn't. The forces could of use riot vehicles, tear gas and others instead of using bullets to kill. Anyway, they have no control of the people now in Rab3a. The army wrecked it and bolstered the supporters which had increased more and more, even non religious supporters had shown up, going nuts. Aljazeera just aired now massive protesters. Only clueless morons think religious people support MB is an MB but infact it's not true, whereas, non scarves and non beards went there. Despite the fact is not many people is providing any proof in here that who exactly support the MB or democracy. People is still vowing to stay outside and the country is in unrest and still "divided". There is no government as long as the people are out there. Don't use harsh words on them because they are unnarmes protesters.



I asked why, not what the affect was. Why did the clashes happen. What was their purpose?


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## Frogman

@MooshMoosh @hussien0216 @Jamaal Yelmaaz @islamrules

Due to your cases of selective memory I have decided to get my point across the same way you seem to favour. Video time baby.

Before the fall

Description: Essam Alarian salutes the Egyptian military for using force to clear a sit in.





Description: Essam Alarian refuses the chant/phrase "down down with military rule".





Description: Safwat Hegazy describing a deal with the military in which power will be seceded to civilians and there wont be probes into cases of corruption (pre-election).

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## Frogman

Continued 

Description: Morsi says that the blocking of roads is a crime which should be dealt with without compromise. Same thing pro supporters are doing now.





Description: Ziad Alaemy forces a parliamentarian to apologize for his comments about Tantawi.





Description: Safwat Hegazy says that those who spray water on Morsi will be sprayed with blood.






After the fall coming soon. Stay tuned.

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## Ceylal

RaptorRX707 said:


> Unbelievable a huge numbers protesters killed.....History in Pakistan transformed from dictatorship to* democracy today has never witnessed the worst situations in Egypt bloodshed.*



Your democracy is not a showcase by any means, your situation has daily victims...What's going on in Egypt, we lived it...The weakening of Egypt is planned and I fear that the Egyptians will have to face the same situation we lived in the 90's.
You are not going to tell me that the MB's weren't coming for blood...The following picture says it all...

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## Jihad_

No to the Pharao!


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## agentny17

MooshMoosh said:


> @agentny17 you are sick man, the stupid moment when you said democracy will happen in Egypt  what an idiot, anyway not surprising here since you are a Nasserist, Socialist d*cks, doesn't care how many people died even if it's a "peaceful protest" by Pros which had happened night ago. BTW, the firaun Sisi is referring terrorist to the millions supporters of Pro Morsi and Pro so called democracy who seeks to impose in Muslim country. Have you not remember Assad slaughtered 110 people on the first day of the PEACEFUL protest then what happened next? so, STFU.
> 
> children killed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> summarizing the massacre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protest against massacre erupted bigger "down with military regime"


Preach my man preach

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## Ceylal

hussain0216 said:


> Assad will fall its a matter of time



He still there, and he will be there, next year and the years after...Who's going to dislodge him with a friend like this..





and this voice...of 38 millions.








> The *Muslims* in *Russia* will increase they don't need immigration


 You forgot one thing, Islam is not a country and theses Muslims a* RUSSIANS* and their loyalties are to Russia.


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## Frogman

Ikhwan after the fall.

The face of peaceful protesters 


Description: A peaceful protester showcases his weapon which he claims has the blood of his enemies on and threatens to wipe the rest out.





Description: A peaceful protester threatens "seculars" saying there will be blood and explosions etc. etc.





4 days ago peaceful protesters bombed a police station in Mansoura.

BBC News - Egypt crisis: Soldier killed in Mansoura bomb blast

Description: Mohammed Albeltagy a peaceful MB leader says the violence in the Sinai will stop when Morsi is returned.





http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/10194325/Egypt-crisis-six-killed-in-militant-attacks-in-Sinai.html



So please stop playing the victim card because you certainly arent victims and you arent any more innocent than the military and the security forces.

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## Hussein

@Ceylal
really North Africa should unit more and forget about the other ones more East
don't forget Africa is the future . a lot are investing and will invest there.
(next time put the song/video for the girl  so we can enjoy)

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## islamrules




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## Frogman

islamrules said:


>



looks like you or your source don't get sarcasm.


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## Naifov

Some few Egyptians here are saying that others do not understand the situation in Egypt, thus they should shut up !! 
well, killing hundreds of innocent civilians is not hard to comprehend ! 

I am just sad that a great country like Egypt is controlled by the monarchs of the gulf and their money. The killing in Egypt is a crime committed by both sisi and his sponsors the ****** arrogant monarchs ! 

It just amazes me that some Saudis here as well are praising the killing even though they were laughing at Syrian Lion for believing his assad thugs. You guys are as blind as he is, you celebrate the killing of innocent Egyptians just as he is celebrating the killing of innocent Syrians.

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## islamrules

this is a parfume shop in Port Said city after it's been burnt to the ground by thugs, do u know why ? because its name is " Momen (believer) parfume shop " and because the owner is a bearded muslim, they killed him too






it says : "we authorized u , we authorized u , hang them , kill them , we are all behind u "


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## Frogman

> this is a parfume shop in Port Said city after it's been burnt to the ground by thugs, do u know why ? because its name is " Momen (believer) parfume shop " and because the owner is a bearded muslim, they killed him too



Im sure you will also condemn the killing of a former police lieutenant who was protesting in Rab3a against the coup. The people there hanged him off a tree as they suspected he was spying for the ministry of the interior, after his death he was repeatedly stabbed and then disposed of in a rubbish dump. Or how about condemnation for a woman who was driving in Alexandria and had a Tamarod sign on her car and so was targeted by peaceful protesters who proceeded to chain her to a lampost and stabbed her 22 times. All I'm asking is for you to stop being a hypocrite.


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## islamrules

a shahid inshallah Dr. Ahmed Hamad Mohammed Mohammed , was treating the injured protesters in Rabia square, when the enemies of Allah shoot him in the head , he's just arrived two weeks ago from Syria .
this is a video of his last moment , may allah grant him and all shuhada al jannah inshallah

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## Frogman

> a shahid inshallah Dr. Ahmed Hamad Mohammed Mohammed , was treating the injured protesters in Rabia square, when the enemies of Allah shoot him in the head , he's just arrived two weeks ago from Syria .
> this is a video of his last moment , may allah grant him and all shuhada al jannah inshallah



The clashes weren't in Rab3a but about a 1.5km away. That's were he was most likely killed.


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## islamrules

yes in the memorial plateform for the unkown soldier , he was helping the injured into an ambulance when they shoot him

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## islamrules

the brother from the Momen shop , they burn him inside his shop, he wasn't even in Rabia nor a MB .


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## MooshMoosh

Going topless, heavy rock band style 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=588050154580666


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## islamrules



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## al-Hasani

Brothers it pains us Muslims and Arabs to see a neighboring Arab country such as Egypt in such a state. Whatever your ideologies, your visions of your country then you really need to settle the score with each other in a peaceful way. Do we really want YET another Muslim and Arab country in turmoil which again will have an impact on the whole region? We are living in the 21t century. Such unrest spreads like fire. 

The Egyptian army really need to be very cautious. I don't support any side since I am not an Egyptian and your internal matters is not really my business but it paints me to see innocent dead Muslims and people in general. There must be another solution other than violence.

I think that Egypt can learn from Yemen and how people dealt with that revolution although it was bloody too but not as bloody as others. I see many similarities actually.

All I care about is the well-doing of the Egyptian people and not political party x or y. Egypt has not chased to be a Muslim country out of sudden.

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## VelocuR

Explain to me, why you support rebels terrorists against Syrians regime. Do you feel same similar to Egypt? 

Saudi Arabia was cheerful when Morsi was removed from Army coup. 



al-Hasani said:


> Brothers it pains us Muslims and Arabs to see a neighboring Arab country such as Egypt in such a state. Whatever your ideologies, your visions of your country then you really need to settle the score with each other in a peaceful way. Do we really want YET another Muslim and Arab country in turmoil which again will have an impact on the whole region? We are living in the 21t century. Such unrest spreads like fire.
> 
> The Egyptian army really need to be very cautious. I don't support any side since I am not an Egyptian and your internal matters is not really my business but it paints me to see innocent dead Muslims and people in general. There must be another solution other than violence.
> 
> I think that Egypt can learn from Yemen and how people dealt with that revolution although it was bloody too but not as bloody as others. I see many similarities actually.
> 
> All I care about is the well-doing of the Egyptian people and not political party x or y. Egypt has not chased to be a Muslim country out of sudden.

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## islamrules

Mohammed Khaled, 26 years old . burnt alive by thugs


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## al-Hasani

Besides, when I was back home in Hijaz earlier this week, I saw the sadness of the Egyptian diaspora when they looked towards the direction of Egypt across the beautiful Red Sea. I know that feelings can get high etc. even between you guys here but you are all Egyptians after all and would probably want the best for your country although you have different ideas of how to achieve that.

Although, if I recall correctly, you said that you were an atheist Frogman, then you come across as a rational person and you are probably also aware of the fact that Egypt is 90% Muslim and quite devout. That said then you are entitled to your opinion obviously.

Anyway what makes me wonder is how Egypt which is nearly 90% Arab/Egyptian/Semitic/A mixture of all 3/call it what you want (rest 10% are Copts) is in such a turmoil when there are countries which are much more diverse in terms of religion, ethnic groups, dialects, geographical extent etc.

It is scary because it just shows that even one of the more homogenous countries in our region can turn upside down in an instant.

Besides this takes me to another question. Has this current conflict anything to do with social classes, regions, distribution of wealth etc.? All we hear from is Cairo. I know that 95% of all Egyptians live in the tiny Nile data while the rest of the country is mainly uninhabited.

Can we get some inside information in that regard?


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## islamrules

*Thugs burning shops owned by muslims *


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## islamrules




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## Frogman

> Although, if I recall correctly, you said that you were an atheist Frogman, then you come across as a rational person and you are probably also aware of the fact that Egypt is 90% Muslim and quite devout.



I'm agnostic. The thing that probably angered me most about the previous constitution is that it only accepted Abrahamic religions in the country. So if I didn't have Muslim or Christian or Jewish written on my birth certificate or national ID care I wouldn't be classed as an Egyptian and wouldn't have the constitutional rights afforded to others. I have nothing against any religion, however, what I have issue with is turning religions into ideological movements which eventually destroy the image of said religion.



> Anyway what makes me wonder is how Egypt which is nearly 90% Arab/Egyptian/Semitic/A mixture of all 3/call it what you want (rest 10 are Copts) is in such a turmoil when there are countries which are much more diverse in terms of religion, ethnic groups, dialects, geographical extent etc.



Egypt has long been a predominantly secular society but the MB and its affiliates were always present. The mistake of previous regimes was to deal with the MB using its security apparatus only and not dealing with the core issue of why young devout men were being radicalized. So the MB was practically divided from the rest of society for decades, for example they would only ever do business with each other and marry amongst themselves, even praying in their own mosques. They remind me of the free Masons under the watchful eye of the Church (the idea of what the free masons are has been misunderstood for decades).

After Mubarak was toppled the MB tried to reintegrate into Egyptian society but at the same time tried to change that fabric which unified the country. Egyptians much like Americans regard themselves as Egyptians first and Muslims second (not that it makes them less religious than any other Muslim), the MB tried to change that and failed. They also tried to change a tolerant and moderate society to one which gets involved in sectarian issues and conflicts when Egyptians have never involved themselves in such issues.

The problems we have now stem from social problems which will be far more challenging to solve than the political ones.



> Besides this takes me to another question. Has this current conflict anything to do with social classes, regions, distribution of wealth etc.? All we hear from is Cairo? I know that 95% of all Egyptians live in the tiny Nile data while the rest is mainly uninhabited.



When you people talk about social classes and wealth distribution in Egypt they often forget or ignore that nearly half of Egypt lives underneath or around the poverty line. In the 25th of Jan revolution the protests were contained to primarily Cairo, Alexandria and Suez and the villages and other cities didn't see much protesting action. The ones leading the protests against Mubarak were the informed youth or disillusioned youth and Egypt's tiny middle class. Egypt's poorest didn't participate. 

Now on the 30th of June we saw much larger protests which were held in every major city and governate capitols, the Egyptian villages however didn't participate. Morsi managed to alienate pretty much everyone who sympathized with the brotherhood and many who voted for him (Maybe I forgot to say this but I was actually convincing people to vote for him), however, those in Egyptian villages were uninterested in politics. Last Friday was a completely different case though, as unrest and killings in the Sinai and Cairo increased and the state media continued its propaganda campaign the Egyptian villages came to the defence of the nation because they felt the state and their lives were at risk from the brotherhood and many of these poor Egyptian families who had been conscripted and lost family members in wars and recently in the Sinai (the poorest conscripts are usually stationed with the internal security forces in the Sinai as they get sub-par education) flocked to the streets.

I'm from Minya Alkamh Alsharqiya a little village/town north of Cairo and the family back there reported to me that it was the biggest protest they have ever seen in that village since ever (maybe since Sadat tried cutting subsidies  ).

The media has this tunnel vision which is primarily focused on Cairo. Its focus is so great that they sometimes don't report murders and other important stories regarding protests and divisions from the rest of the country (the global media that is).

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## al-Hasani

Frogman said:


> I'm agnostic. The thing that probably angered me most about the previous constitution is that it only accepted Abrahamic religions in the country. So if I didn't have Muslim or Christian or Jewish written on my birth certificate or national ID care I wouldn't be classed as an Egyptian and wouldn't have the constitutional rights afforded to others. I have nothing against any religion, however, what I have issue with is turning religions into ideological movements which eventually destroy the image of said religion.
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt has long been a predominantly secular society but the MB and its affiliates were always present. The mistake of previous regimes was to deal with the MB using its security apparatus only and not dealing with the core issue of why young devout men were being radicalized. So the MB was practically divided from the rest of society for decades, for example they would only ever do business with each other and marry amongst themselves, even praying in their own mosques. They remind me of the free Masons under the watchful eye of the Church (the idea of what the free masons are has been misunderstood for decades).
> 
> After Mubarak was toppled the MB tried to reintegrate into Egyptian society but at the same time tried to change that fabric which unified the country. Egyptians much like Americans regard themselves as Egyptians first and Muslims second (not that it makes them less religious than any other Muslim), the MB tried to change that and failed. They also tried to change a tolerant and moderate society to one which gets involved in sectarian issues and conflicts when Egyptians have never involved themselves in such issues.
> 
> The problems we have now stem from social problems which will be far more challenging to solve than the political ones.
> 
> 
> 
> When you people talk about social classes and wealth distribution in Egypt they often forget or ignore that nearly half of Egypt lives underneath or around the poverty line. In the 25th of Jan revolution the protests were contained to primarily Cairo, Alexandria and Suez and the villages and other cities didn't see much protesting action. The ones leading the protests against Mubarak were the informed youth or disillusioned youth and Egypt's tiny middle class. Egypt's poorest didn't participate.
> 
> Now on the 30th of June we saw much larger protests which were held in every major city and governate capitols, the Egyptian villages however didn't participate. Morsi managed to alienate pretty much everyone who sympathized with the brotherhood and many who voted for him (Maybe I forgot to say this but I was actually convincing people to vote for him), however, those in Egyptian villages were uninterested in politics. Last Friday was a completely different case though, as unrest and killings in the Sinai and Cairo increased and the state media continued its propaganda campaign the Egyptian villages came to the defence of the nation because they felt the state and their lives were at risk from the brotherhood and many of these poor Egyptian families who had been conscripted and lost family members in wars and recently in the Sinai (the poorest conscripts are usually stationed with the internal security forces in the Sinai as they get sub-par education) flocked to the streets.
> 
> I'm from Minya Alkamh Alsharqiya a little village/town north of Cairo and the family back there reported to me that it was the biggest protest they have ever seen in that village since ever (maybe since Sadat tried cutting subsidies  ).
> 
> The media has this tunnel vision which is primarily focused on Cairo. Its focus is so great that they sometimes don't report murders and other important stories regarding protests and divisions from the rest of the country (the global media that is).



Thanks for the long and detailed post, bro. Much appreciated. Whatever the realities or wrongdoings then I hope that you can get your act together and somehow put an end to all this bloodshed, unrest etc. and try to work together for a better Egypt and region.

I just hope that the army will be cautious and likewise the other side. The worst that could happen for our Arab and Muslim world and immediate region (Middle East) would be some kind of civil war in Egypt. It would be disastrous.

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## tyrant

islamrules said:


>



This cartoon recites a verse of Quoran on behalf of MB:" (Abel to Gabel) if you extend your hand to kill me, I will not do the same"

again seriously?
MB started the threat of *"Free Egyptian Army" * and bombed different places and now they want to look peaceful by these pictures. 
Look at the Egyptians in this forum; they are all against Morsi except one.

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## tyrant

*I don't want MB members to get hurt but if they try to start "Free Egyptian Army", I want them dead.*


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## babajees

Horrified by the Egyptian Army's Massacre of innocent Muslims!

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## Frogman

babajees said:


> Horrified by the Egyptian Army's Massacre of innocent Muslims!


 Why weren't you horrified when it happened under Morsi?


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## Naifov

Frogman said:


> Why weren't you horrified when it happened under Morsi?



When, when did morsi ever authorized the killing of hundreds innocent civilians ? 

I am not an MB supporter but the killing of innocent egyptians is extremely disgusting to the fact that I'm now forced to support Islamists. The history will always record that the Islamists were the ones who supported democracy and its them who darely welcomed any winning party. The history books will record that the so called arab liberals and secularists are the ones who are supporting dictatorship and army rule, they are the ones who are fighting against freedom of speech and freedom of thought. 

I'm disgusted by the fact that the great Egyptian army is controlled by monarchs and their money. 

Egypt will win against army rule and it will win against the monarchs, that is what I'm really sure about !

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## Frogman

> When, when did morsi ever authorized the killing of hundreds innocent civilians ?



Ever heard of Alatahdiya and what went down in those few days.

Just a little video: Description: MB militia armed with melee weapons and rudimentary firearms clearing a sit in at Alatahidiya with support from the security forces which resulted in the death of multiple political activists.








> I am not an MB supporter but the killing of innocent egyptians is extremely disgusting to the fact that I'm now forced to support Islamists.



Grow up. The MB and its affiliates are no more innocent than the military or the security forces. Those who actually sacrifice their lives are the ones who we should seek justice for but not the "Islamists". Name me one MB leader who marched with these young men towards security forces just one. Those same leaders who supported the use of force to disperse protesters when they were in power.....








> The history will always record that the Islamists were the ones who supported democracy and its them who darely welcomed any winning party.



Then why did they not listen to the military or to the people who called for a referendum on whether there should be a presidential election? Why do they only talk of such initiatives after their time has past? 

The MB had no intention of setting up a democratic process in Egypt and their actions while in power prove that.



> The history books will record that the so called arab liberals and secularists are the ones who are supporting dictatorship and army rule, they are the ones who are fighting against freedom of speech and freedom of thought.



Freedom of speech is applicable only when one doesn't incite hatred or violence which is something the MB routinely did in power and out of it. Morsi wasn't a civil servant but an elected dictator, he granted himself more power than the unelected Mubarak did. By the way we have an interim president and a interim government, Egypt is not under army rule and if you say Mansour is a puppet I would suggest you look at the relationship between Morsi and his supreme guide.



> I'm disgusted by the fact that the great Egyptian army is controlled by monarchs and their money.



Morsi and his government received over 8 billion dollars in aid from Qatar. The Egyptian military isn't funded by any state other than America and those funds contribute to less than a quarter of the military budget and can only be used to purchase American weaponry.



> Egypt will win against army rule and it will win against the monarchs, that is what I'm really sure about !



Well that will never happen with blood or weapons nor does anyone want it to unless they are traitorous.


Now stop being naive. There are no good or bad people in this situation, there's no knight or villain there's only interests and political maneuvering.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

> Frogman


my friend you have been explaining for every one here that this is not a coup this is a revolution and the MB are not democratic or consider themselves Egyptians the people who were happy when we were defeated in 1967 the people who killed and sold out their own people a long list of assassinations if they cant see the millions who were in the streets willing to die just to kick out the brotherhood the fact that the army the police the people all united after 2 years of unrest they managed to make everyone hate them in 1 year in power the constitution they wanted to write by themselves they consider moderate muslims and christians are second class citizens 
if i were you i would let them think what they wish we didnt do a crime to justify our actions to hell with anyone who thinks he knows better than Egyptians

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## Frogman

> my friend you have been explaining for every one here that this is not a coup this is a revolution



This was a coup as was 2011 and the actions of the free officers in the 1950's. The only thing that was different from the previous events was that the military removed a monarchy and a dictator and so were branded by pretty much the whole world as revolutions. But there's a certain hypocrisy when some refuse to see that June 30th and the 25th of January are remarkably similar yet one is labelled a revolution and another a coup because it ousted an illegitimate yet elected dictator. By definition its a coup but that isn't the issue (except if you're the American administration), the real issue is the nature of the coup and the events that lead to it.



> if i were you i would let them think what they wish we didnt do a crime to justify our actions to hell with anyone who thinks he knows better than Egyptians



All Im trying to do is point out that the MB and its affiliates arent angels and that the military and security forces also behaved inexplicably. But if you chose to side with the brotherhood and argue that they should arm themselves or resist with violence then what you're asking for is not another Syria but a slaughter. The MB don't have the weapons the military experience or the numbers to resist a full on war with the Egyptian military.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

Frogman said:


> This was a coup as was 2011 and the actions of the free officers in the 1950's. The only thing that was different from the previous events was that the military removed a monarchy and a dictator and so were branded by pretty much the whole world as revolutions. But there's a certain hypocrisy when some refuse to see that June 30th and the 25th of January are remarkably similar yet one is labelled a revolution and another a coup because it ousted an illegitimate yet elected dictator. By definition its a coup but that isn't the issue (except if you're the American administration), the real issue is the nature of the coup and the events that lead to it.
> 
> 
> 
> All Im trying to do is point out that the MB and its affiliates arent angels and that the military and security forces are also behaved inexplicably. But that if you chose to side with the brotherhood and argue that they should arm themselves or resist with violence then what you're asking for is not another Syria but a slaughter. The MB don't have the weapons the military experience or the numbers to resist a full on war with the Egyptian military.


no one will understand only the people who dealt with the brotherhood will understand how this organization works and how far they are willing to go to rule even if this means the end of the country they are in
about it is a coup or not it doesnt matter what will it be called i care about results and the results are getting the brotherhood out and this is all i wanted

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## MooshMoosh

@Frogman all over again

Sisi calls for mass protests in Egypt to confront &lsquo;terrorism&rsquo; - FT.com - 4 days ago

Egypt official warns Brotherhood again - Middle East - Al Jazeera English - Today

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## Frogman

> no one will understand only the people who dealt with the brotherhood will understand how this organization works and how far they are willing to go to rule even if this means the end of the country they are in



I remember when I was on holiday once in Minya Alkamh the police were sniffing around the neighborhood and the local Ikhwani mosque looking for members of the MB (don't know what the reason was) and I saw that day my Ikhwani neighbour (horribly strict person, often argues with my five year old cousin for wearing short shorts) get in a Peugeot with his family and when we asked him were he was going he said Ummrah. Now the funny thing is that when I was talking to my family later that day they mentioned that this was his third time on Ummrah that year and every time he went there was always a police presence (mokhbereen) around his house and around the mosque  

Agriy yallah basor3a aldkhliya gaya takhdak wetkhazwakak fe amn eldawlah.

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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> @Frogman all over again
> 
> Sisi calls for mass protests in Egypt to confront &#8216;terrorism&#8217; - FT.com - 4 days ago
> 
> Egypt official warns Brotherhood again - Middle East - Al Jazeera English - Today



If the military wanted to shut Rab3a down with force it could have done so the day Morsi was ousted or last Friday. Why do you insist that when Elsisi was talking about terrorism he meant those in Rab3a or other places who were protesting peacefully. He was given a mandate yet there wasn't an operation to clear it. There wont be an operation to clear Ra3a violently, this will be more likely...Kettling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Happened to me quite a few times at the student protests over here.


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Frogman said:


> I remember when I was on holiday once in Minya Alkamh the police were sniffing around the neighborhood and the local Ikhwani mosque looking for members of the MB (don't know what the reason was) and I saw that day my Ikhwani neighbour (horribly strict person, often argues with my five year old cousin for wearing short shorts) get in a Peugeot with his family and when we asked him were he was going he said Ummrah. Now the funny thing is that when I was talking to my family later that day they mentioned that this was his third time on Ummrah that year and every time he went there was always a police presence (mokhbereen) around his house and around the mosque
> 
> Agriy yallah basor3a aldkhliya gaya takhdak wetkhazwakak fe amn eldawlah.


yes just like they pray when security forces come near them

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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> If the military wanted to shut Rab3a down with force it could have done so the day Morsi was ousted or last Friday. Why do you insist that when Elsisi was talking about terrorism he meant those in Rab3a or other places who were protesting peacefully. He was given a mandate yet there wasn't an operation to clear it. There wont be an operation to clear Ra3a violently, this will be more likely...Kettling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



He is referring it to the MB supporters, not the Sinai operation and that was the army's fault since MB had no control of the army so why it took a year for Sinai to be lawless? 

I do support Kettling, but is there such thing called "kettling" in Egypt? Have you not remember what happened in the first revolution? There is a big difference between kettling in Egypt, Turkey and the West which is 'softy'. Yes, we know Egypt has one of the world most aggressive forces  but it is followed by Sisi  They could've done what Turkey did.

*Turkish police vs Kemalist*

Why not this? Something like TOMA





why not this style?





or this?





Instead of using bullets to shoot.

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## Hussein

@MooshMoosh 
you're so right. Turkey is modernized they use the same methods than European countries .

but maybe there is one difference: some Islamists are very violent (i don't mean all) but not the people who were doing protest in Turkey.
Is that sadly the bad experiment and bad "leadership" of army made some terrible mistakes and killing some innocent people?
one reason would be this but another one would be these violent Islamists too

Anyway even if it is a pain MooshMoosh what do you think?
is there a confrontation or a civil war needed ? or do everything to change for good your country and change it in the right way so power of army will be less or army itself will change for more "modern"?

asking for violence was a very bad solution. Turks didn't ask for violence , that makes a difference .

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## MooshMoosh

Hussein said:


> @MooshMoosh
> you're so right. Turkey is modernized they use the same methods than European countries .
> 
> but maybe there is one difference: some Islamists are very violent (i don't mean all) but not the people who were doing protest in Turkey.
> Is that sadly the bad experiment and bad "leadership" of army made some terrible mistakes and killing some innocent people?
> one reason would be this but another one would be these violent Islamists too
> 
> Anyway even if it is a pain MooshMoosh what do you think?
> is there a confrontation or a civil war needed ? or do everything to change for good your country and change it in the right way so power of army will be less or army itself will change for more "modern"?
> 
> asking for violence was a very bad solution. Turks didn't ask for violence , that makes a difference .



The problem is that the country is divided, people are still staying outside so no one knows what will happen next and what choice do the army have? Wait and see what will happen.

Egypt official warns Brotherhood again - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

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## BeyondHeretic

It only takes one more revolution / coup for the entire western world to forget what egypt was , why do you think every one started to forget turkey in the 60s and 70s


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## islamrules

for the first time since its construction , Salat tarawih is banned in the recently besieged Ka'd Ibrahim masjid, the biggest masjid in Alexandria 
this is the Masjid in 2012 :




banning salat is the pick of kuffr, there is no kuffr beyond that !!!


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## islamrules

the army is bombing police departement in Sinai with AGM-114F Hellfire (air-to-surface missile) and blames in on "terrorists"


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## islamrules

this is an article by Mahmoud al Ka'oud , writes :
what Sisi is doing is the same thing that the Pharaoh has done ..
Allah swt says :"And the eminent among the people of Pharaoh said," Will you leave Moses and his people to cause corruption in the land and abandon you and your gods?" [Pharaoh] said, "We will kill their sons and keep their women alive; and indeed, we are subjugators over them.""
the people of Sisi have been attacking Morsi n his MB like mad dogs , they claim the MB r corrupt .. terrorists .. , they seeked the army's intervention to overthrow him n demolish the Jama'a along with da'wa salafia and all islamists ... 

Sisi then asked authorization to fight what he called "terrorism" , he said : "I want an *ORDER *from u (his people) to fight terrorism " . Notice that the Pharaoh also used the word "order" 
Allah says :" [Pharaoh] said to the eminent ones around him, "Indeed, this is a learned magician. He wants to drive you out of your land by his magic, so what do you *order *?" " 

Sisi wants his people to protest in the streets in his support , he uses the media to call upon them , same for the Pharaoh ...
Allah swt says : " They said, "Postpone [the matter of] him and his brother and send among the cities gatherers"
and : " And it was said to the people, "Will you congregate " " 
and : " Then Pharaoh sent among the cities gatherers ,[And said], "Indeed, those are but a small band, And indeed, they are enraging us, And indeed, we are a cautious society... " "

Now it's time for the killing of Moses and his gang , Sisi the Pharaoh says let me kill the " terrorists " , Allah swt says : "And Pharaoh said, "Let me kill Moses and let him call upon his Lord. Indeed, I fear that he will change your religion or that he will cause corruption in the land." "


Acually what makes Sisi a Pharaoh , is the support of his people the enemies of islam , he is not alone n is NOT gonna backdown, cause he is chosen to play this role, until the muslims show they deserve Allah's victory ,only then Sisi shall fall just like Khufu fell before him .. one thing is sure Sisi is not gonna die in his bed surrounded by his beloved ones .


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

MooshMoosh said:


> no comment...


* These pics summ up everythings..no need to extend more mention..*



Frogman said:


> Continued
> 
> Description: Morsi says that the blocking of roads is a crime which should be dealt with without compromise. Same thing pro supporters are doing now.



Look junta lover, an legitimate government like the MB government that democratically elected by people has legal rights to make laws or put things into order in all the world.

But your Pissi's illegal government is just like the child who born out of wedlock and abondoned in courtyard of the mousq has no any illigtimate right even to rule a village of Egypt. 

i hope you have realized the differences between two govs.

If there was a fair working judiciary system in Egypt Gen. Pissi and his traitor fellows must be judged at once from sellout of country...But no doubt some day that moment will take place in Egypt too just like in Turkey....military minded People like You must realize very well that dictators and military coups era had already over and people never submit to their atrocity more in the ME..No chance for Pissi to be 2 nd Mubarak.Dont cheer in vain.



al-Hasani said:


> The Egyptian army really need to be very cautious. I don't support any side since I am not an Egyptian and your internal matters is not really my business but it paints me to see innocent dead Muslims and people in general. There must be another solution other than violence.



Bro, to be honest there is no any differences between Shabihaa thugs of Assad and Baltaji thugs of Sisi. No difference between Assad and Sisi, No difference between meddling in Syria by Iran and meddling in Egypt by KSA.. 
The truth hurts..isn't??

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## al-Hasani

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> * These pics summ up everythings..no need to extend more mention..*
> 
> 
> 
> Look junta lover, an legitimate government like the MB government that democratically elected by people has legal rights to make laws or put things into order in all the world.
> 
> But your Pissi's illegal government is just like the child who born out of wedlock and abondoned in courtyard of the mousq has no any illigtimate right even to rule a village of Egypt.
> 
> i hope you have realized the differences between two govs.
> 
> If there was a fair working judiciary system in Egypt Gen. Pissi and his traitor fellows must be judged at once from sellout of country...But no doubt some day that moment will take place in Egypt too just like in Turkey....military minded People like You must realize very well that dictators and military coups era had already over and people never submit to their atrocity more in the ME..No chance for Pissi to be 2 nd Mubarak.Dont cheer in vain.
> 
> 
> 
> Bro, to be honest there is no any differences between Shabihaa thugs of Assad and Baltaji thugs of Sisi. No difference between Assad and Sisi, No difference between meddling in Syria by Iran and meddling in Egypt by KSA..
> The truth hurts..isn't??



KSA has nothing to do with it. Do you really think that KSA "removed" the Mursi government? 

No, their is a HUGE difference. From what I am aware of then the Egyptian military has yet to kill 100.000 Syrian Muslims and they are yet to destroy even a single village while the Child-Murderer in Syria has destroyed HUNDREDS of villages and even a dozens of cities. When the Egyptian army even comes near to that destruction then I will be against them. Until then I will condemn any killings of innocents be it committed by any side and since it is an internal Egyptian matter for now, unlike Syria which has turned into a regional sectarian war, then I will try to be as neutral as possible.

All we care about as fellow Muslims, Arabs and neighbors is a stable and prosperous Egypt. What a system the EGYPTIANS choose is their business alone since they are the only ones that can decide their own future and form of government.

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## Falcon29

islamrules said:


> the army is bombing police departement in Sinai with AGM-114F Hellfire (air-to-surface missile) and blames in on "terrorists"



The army is claiming they're US 'made' ballistic shells. And they claim one soldier has been killed in areas around Rafah and Al-Arish. With a few 'militant' attacks on several military checkpoints.

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## farag

Since mursi is so much loved and legitimate, how about another election?
I was one of the 51% votes of mursi. My whole family voted for him.

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## Frogman

> Look junta lover, an legitimate government like the MB government that democratically elected by people has legal rights to make laws or put things into order in all the world.



Actually, Morsi's government was unelected. No one questioned their right to legislate or reform but what was questioned is their level of competence (which was a little above incompetent).



> But your Pissi's illegal government is just like the child who born out of wedlock and abondoned in courtyard of the mousq has no any illigtimate right even to rule a village of Egypt.



Morsis constitutional decree which gave him absolute power to make legislative and judicial decisions with immunity from prosecution from any state institution was also illegal and unconstitutional.

Are you aware that the military proposed a referendum to Morsi on several occasions prior to June the 30th but Morsi refused. If he had accepted and won like he should of if the majority of Egyptians were behind him as he and his brotherhood said then he would of stayed in power and if the result was against him then there would have been presidential elections in which he would of been allowed to run. So why are the MB now offering a referendum but only if Morsi is returned as a ceremonial president isn't it a bit too late?

By the way your metaphors and your insistence on changing names for the purpose of slander or to mock them makes you sound like a five year old. I would advise you to stop doing that, I'm against Morsi and I haven't messed with his name or insulted the former president.



> i hope you have realized the differences between two govs.



One was surprised by the renaissance dam and had no clue at all while the other solved chronic fuel and power problems in a few days?



> If there was a fair working judiciary system in Egypt Gen. Pissi and his traitor fellows must be judged at once from sellout of country...But no doubt some day that moment will take place in Egypt too just like in Turkey....military minded People like You must realize very well that dictators and military coups era had already over and people never submit to their atrocity more in the ME..No chance for Pissi to be 2 nd Mubarak.Dont cheer in vain.



Since you have no true understanding of what politics is like and how state institutions work or know the intricacies of Egyptian politics then I would advise you to stop interfering in the nations business until you have an informed and constructive view. 



> He is referring it to the MB supporters, not the Sinai operation and that was the army's fault since MB had no control of the army so why it took a year for Sinai to be lawless?



He didn't mention Rab3a nor peaceful protesters. In fact he assured people had the right to peacefully protest and it is your interpretation of his words that makes you believe this and not whats happening on the ground. There was a march today towards military intelligence HQ by the folks from Rab3a why weren't they shot and killed if they're terrorists?

Plus do you know the videos you have posted are all labelled police brutality....




islamrules said:


> the army is bombing police departement in Sinai with AGM-114F Hellfire (air-to-surface missile) and blames in on "terrorists"





> The army is claiming they're US 'made' ballistic shells. And they claim one soldier has been killed in areas around Rafah and Al-Arish. With a few 'militant' attacks on several military checkpoints.



Again the only source from the military is its spokesman and not a FB page which claims to be official and there has been no such statement.

You would think the military would know what a Hellfire missile is wouldn't you...

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

al-Hasani said:


> KSA has nothing to do with it. Do you really think that KSA "removed" the Mursi government?
> 
> No, their is a HUGE difference. From what I am aware of then the Egyptian military has yet to kill 100.000 Syrian Muslims and they are yet to destroy even a single village while the Child-Murderer in Syria has destroyed HUNDREDS of villages and even a dozens of cities. When the Egyptian army even comes near to that destruction then I will be against them. Until then I will condemn any killings of innocents be it committed by any side and since it is an internal Egyptian matter for now, unlike Syria which has turned into a regional sectarian war, then I will try to be as neutral as possible.
> 
> All we care about as fellow Muslims, Arabs and neighbors is a stable and prosperous Egypt. What a system the EGYPTIANS choose is their business alone since they are the only ones that can decide their own future and form of government.



Al Hasani, bro there r some other internal and external factors behind that puppet Pissi coup...This is not only matter of islam and secularism...Even islam is 3.th factor not first one. Salafis in Egypt much more hardline tham MBs. in respect of religon.. But Salafis arent so contrats to army and elite sphere that support army..WHY??

*1-*Some Arab countries but now i dont remeber theiir names!! strictly against leadership of Egypt in Arab worlds. So Egypt shouldnt be so powerfull that need not beg money from reach arabs. *The hands give money give orders as well.* 
And more, Some Arab monarchies didnt want democracy work in Egypt in order not to be a succesful model for the people live under monarchies..

*2-* Egypt army control and holding 40% economy and 70% of real estate in Egyypt according to independent statics..They are look like a gaint bussines company rather than an national army..Army companies have priority and tax exemptions. The other groups that control together economy with army is reach elite group and high ranked officers, bureuacrats and etc..They reject free market economy model and try to keep their monopoly in economy so that they could loot country more easily. All these groups compromise only 15% of whole Egyptions..

*3-*Islamic factor: This is the least important reason. Egypt army isnot a secular army in reality. even Egypt army is a fundamentalist islamic army as per to criterions of Turkish army secularism. MB's islamic understanding more dangerous for West and Israel rather than for Egypt army..Because MB islamic understanding contains nationalism of whole counrty,relatively more moderate islamic ideas and have plans of strengthing of Egypt like AKP did in Turkey.. This is most critical stuff that West hates. Because they dont want other else new partners like Japan, China, S.Korea to share the same economic cake with them.

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## kalu_miah

MooshMoosh said:


> The problem is that the country is divided, people are still staying outside so no one knows what will happen next and what choice do the army have? Wait and see what will happen.
> 
> Egypt official warns Brotherhood again - Middle East - Al Jazeera English



If there is a civil war between MB and Army, does MB supporters have any possibility of winning? Who is going to back MB financially and with arms and ammunition?

What is the level of support for MB within the Army? Is it possible that they will stage a counter coup and remove Sissi and his supporters, instead of risking a wider civil war with large casualty?

Sissi and his people have killed close to 200 people already in about 3 weeks. This shows that they are willing to kill. And Mubarak was removed after killing less than 1000 people. At this rate Sissi govt. will reach 1000 dead in about 12 weeks. "Secular" Muslims and Islamists were united to remove Mubarak and Army removed him as he became a liability. Now in this revolution/coup "Secular" Muslims, Copts and some clueless poor folk driven by propaganda demonstrated and gave excuse to Sissi to remove Morsi, it seems. So at this point it is only the Islamist MB or Freedom & Justice party against the Army, with the "secular" Muslims and Copts cheering on the Army to suppress MB. 

Like @Jamaal Yelmaaz bro said above, Army has been the privileged unit controlling a good chunk of economy, not just in Egypt, but in many under-developed countries and this same Army was used by the West as neo colonial proxies to maintain secular govt. whether they are dictatorship's or so called "democracies". Necmettin Erbakan was over thrown by Turkish Army, Algerian Islamists who won democratic elections were also over thrown by Algerian Army. In Turkey the AKP finally came to power and they have infiltrated the Army and created a business network more powerful than the Secular Army and deep state, so it will not be easy to dislodge them, I think here the West have lost.

What the so called "seculars" do not realize is that the West is using them as pawns to prevent genuine democracies to take root in Muslim countries, because these democracies inevitably become Islamic and Islamist by popular demand. It also creates greater unity among Muslim countries which becomes a security threat for some existing and aspiring global and regional powers, who are dead set against Muslims getting empowered and have any semblance of unity, which is for the practical benefit of these countries and populations. Note I am not talking of a Khilafah or Ummah, just basic unity of helping each other in need, under an enhanced OIC perhaps.

The GCC Monarch's play a crucial role in all this. I am hoping that both MB and GCC monarchs find some way to come together on the future course of Egypt. If and when the number of dead go above a few thousand, the alarm bells will start ringing, public opinion will shift and sympathies will be with MB. The GCC Monarch's are not in a position to alienate and antagonize a major political force that has deep roots in the Arab world. I hope they do not get fooled by the West, because like the West and all other foreign powers, all have deep reservations about empowerment and flourishing of Islamic societies. West and all the rest are in it to destroy us, like they are doing in Syria, ever so carefully, so one side cannot get the upper hand and the carnage continues. The risk for GCC monarch's is that if and when MB finally wins in Egypt and the West loose, then how will the West protect the Monarch's from MB wrath? I think the Monarch's need to think their future strategy very carefully. I think it will not be possible to destroy MB, they will come back eventually more powerful than ever.

Just my personal opinion from a distance. I am curious about your own opinion bro.

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## islamrules



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## Frogman

islamrules said:


>



Since when has mocking the regulations that accompany wearing a military uniform become a valid criticism.......

What you should really be looking at if you're critiquing his attire is the two badges on his left arm. The round one is the badge for the infantry, the curved one above it is the one awarded to elite forces, so he can probably mess you up even though hes over sixty.


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## monitor

gypt&#8217;s Muslim Brotherhood First Casualty Of US Verdict: Saudi Arabia Not Qatar, To Lead Arab World &#8211; OpEd

By Zayd Alisa 

July 26, 2013

The Egyptian army issued a stern ultimatum, on July 1, 2013, which was ostensibly a stark warning to both, Morsi, the elected president of Egypt &#8211; who represents the Muslim Brotherhood MB &#8211; and on the other side the Tamarod Movement and the National Salvation Front &#8211; which is a loose coalition of secular parties. However, in reality, it was nothing short of a thinly veiled threat to, Morsi, stressing that unless he conceded a significant portion of his powers within 48 hours, the army would oust him. It was abundantly clear that the army has already taken the monumental decision to depose Morsi.

Given that the U.S. provides the Egyptian army with $ 1.5 billion annually in military aid, so it is highly inconceivable for the army to embark on such a highly risky strategy without the full blessing of its paymaster. Therefore, Morsi, tried to make it starkly embarrassing to the U.S. by explicitly emphasising in his speeches on, Jul. 2, &#8211; and, Jul. 3, &#8211; that he was the first democratically elected civilian president of Egypt.

While, it is incontestable that Qatar &#8211; headed by its previous Emir, Hamed bin Khalifa Al Thani and his Prime Minister and Foreign Minister, Hamed Bin Jassim &#8211; was at the forefront of unequivocally backing the popular uprisings that swept Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Syria, however, when these uprisings were on the verge of successfully toppling dictatorship, the Qataris always scrambled to restrict their support to propping up the MB.

The Saudi regime, by contrast was deeply rattled by the popular uprisings that swept through the region. The Saudi regime offered Ben Ali, Tunisia&#8217;s dictator, refuge and the Saudi king gave his emphatic support to Mubarek, Egypt&#8217;s tyrant, threatening the U.S. that he would bankroll him. The Saudis also implemented their own initiative, replacing, Saleh, Yemen&#8217;s dictator, with another staunch ally. For the Saudis, the Bahraini uprising was indisputably the nightmare scenario. Since, Bahrain &#8211; a dictatorship, which is only a stone-throw away &#8211; is governed by, Al Khalifa family, from the Sunni minority. While, just like, Saudi Arabia&#8217;s oil-rich Eastern province the vast majority of its population are Shia. Therefore, fearing the pervasion of the uprising to Saudi Arabia, the king offered billions of dollars in benefits, strictly prohibited protests, rewarded the Salafi Wahhabi religious establishment and, most ominously, gave the green light to the Saudi army to invade and occupy Bahrain. What is irrefutable is the pivotal role played by the radical and regressive Salafi Wahhabi religious establishment in giving religious legitimacy to the Saudi regime, which in turn provides it with the vital funding to propagate and export its violent ideology. According to the Wahhabi ideology it is strictly forbidden to oppose the ruler. Thus, in the Saudi regime&#8217;s eyes the MB&#8217;s explicit endorsement of political Islam &#8211; which underlines explicitly that legitimacy to rule stems only from democratic elections &#8211; is undoubtedly an existential threat, casting serious doubts on the very legitimacy of the Saudi King&#8217;s absolute power. To make matters even worse, Qatar has enthusiastically embraced and even offered citizenship to the influential and highly controversial spiritual leader of the MB, Yusuf Al Qaradawi.

As the protest in Syria, became increasingly militarised, the Qataris ramped up their full-blown support to the MB. For the Saudis, the Syrian regime has consistently been, since the days of the late, Hafiz Al Assad, Bashar&#8217;s father, a major thorn in its side and an irreplaceable strategic ally to Iran. Consequently, its overthrow would irreparably damage Iranian influence. The Saudi regime moved swiftly to shore up the armed insurgents, fast crumbling front, by utilising its intelligence service&#8217;s &#8211; whose instrumental role in establishing and funding Jabhat Al Nusra JN was highlighted in an online intelligence review released in Paris in, Jan. 2013 &#8211; huge influence and leverage &#8211; on, not only Sunni tribal leaders in Western Iraq, but also Saudi members of Al Qaida in Iraq AQI, who according to an NBC report in, Jun. 2005, formed a majority (55 %) of the suicide bombers and foreign fighters converging on Iraq &#8211; to convince AQI that its principal battlefield must be Syria and its ultimate goal should be deposing Bashar Al Assad Alawite regime, since its overthrow would break the back-bone of the Iraqi Shia-led government and inevitably loosen Iran&#8217;s grip on Iraq. Creating a new branch of Al Qaida in Syria under the new label of JN, which was not yet designated a terrorist organisation, was, not only an unmissable lifeline to AQI &#8211; which was on the back foot, in 2011 &#8211; enabling it to circumvent the strict sanctions, but also it provided Saudi Arabia and Qatar with a window of opportunity to bolster AQI and JN &#8211; under the perfect pretext of supporting democracy in Syria &#8211; to destabilise both countries without being accused of shoring up terrorism. So AQI scrambled to send Abu Mohammed Al Jolani, in, Jul. 2011, to form JN, while, Aymen Al Zawahri, the overall leader of Al Qaida instructed all of his fighters in, Feb, 2012, to converge on Syria. The New York Times reported, on, Oct. 14. 2012, that most of the weapons shipped by Saudi Arabia and Qatar are going to hard-line jihadist in Syria. Thus, explaining how JN swiftly turned into the best armed group in Syria. It also reported on, Feb. 29, 2013, that Saudi Arabia has dramatically stepped up support for the rebels by financing a large purchase of weapons from Croatia. However, its article on, Apr. 27, 2013, was &#8211; even though indirectly &#8211; far more scathing about, Saudi and Qatari, arming and funding of extremist jihadist by asserting ominously, that nowhere in rebel-controlled Syria is there a secular fighting force. The Guardian, meanwhile, reported on, Jun. 22, 2012, that Saudi Arabia is in the process of paying salaries to Syrian rebels to entice them to defect from the Syrian army. But, in a rare admission, by a well informed source &#8211; in an article, on, Apr. 13, 2013, in Al Arabia news channel, a mouthpiece of the Saudi regime &#8211; confirming the purchase and shipment of Croatian weapons to Syrian rebels and acknowledging that appointing, Bander Bin Sultan, in, Jul. 2012, as intelligence chief, was to ratchet up Saudi Arabia&#8217;s faltering efforts in Syria. Even more revealing, however, was the assertion that, Bander, was firmly behind the steering wheel, so the Qataris must have been told to take a back seat. In essence, all this funding, arming, and paying salaries to militants by Saudi Arabia and Qatar have, not only turned JN &#8211; which according to Abu Baker Al Baghdadi&#8217;s, head of AQI, declaration in early, Apr. 2013, is merely an extension of AQI &#8211; Salafi Wahhabi group into the most ruthless and potent force among the opposition groups, but also dramatically reinvigorated AQI.

Without a doubt, the recapture of the strategic city of Qusair, in early Jun. 2013, by the Syrian army, backed up by its Lebanese allies Hezbollah, marked a major turning point in the Syrian conflict, sending shockwaves across Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the U.S. Thus, prompting Obama&#8217;s startling decision on, Jun. 13, 2013, to arm the rebels. Followed menacingly by, Saudi Arabia&#8217;s king, sudden return from his holiday. Last time he returned suddenly was to invade and occupy Bahrain. This time, he went back to assume his new role as the undisputed leader of the Arab World after the U.S.&#8217;s verdict: Saudi Arabia not Qatar, must lead the Arab World. Thus, Qatar&#8217;s Emir, was pushed, by the U.S. on, Jun. 25, 2013, to abdicate power to his son, Tamim Bin Hamed. And, in stark contrast to what many experts predicted, all the indicators manifest that, instead of the heavily active and interventionist approach, Qatari foreign policy would either toe the Saudi line or keep a low profile. These indicators include the following: First, Qatar&#8217;s new Emir, made it abundantly clear in his first speech, that Qatar would respect all political directions and rejects sectarianism in Arab societies. Second, the highly conspicuous absence of any mention of the Syrian crisis. Third, and incontestably far more significant, replacing, Hamed Bin Jassim, who was Prime Minster and Foreign Minster by, Abdallah Bin Nasser Bin Khalifa, who has been appointed PM and Interior Minster, reflecting an inward looking policy. Fourth, the appointment of, Khalid Al Atiyah, who despite his experience, would have far less clout, since he is not a member of the royal family. Fifth, the new Emir swiftly congratulated the interim president, Adly Mansour, who was appointed by the Egyptian army on, Jul. 4. This was in stark contrast to the Fatwa issued on, Jul. 6, 2013, by, Yusuf Al Qaradawi, who openly called on the Egyptian people to defy the army and back up, Morsi.

Even though, Egypt&#8217;s MB was the first casualty of the major change in Qatari foreign policy, nonetheless, hot on its heels came the dramatic takeover of the leadership of the SNC &#8211; which the Qataris, until very recently, had been fighting viciously to retain their firm control over, by ensuring that the MB maintains its tight grip and pressing hard for the selection on, Mar. 19, 2013, of its candidate, Gassan Hetto, as interim Prime Minster &#8211; on, Jul. 6, 2013, by, Ahmed Jerba, who is Saudi Arabia&#8217;s candidate and afterwards, the closure of the Taliban&#8217;s political office in Doha.

The principal reasons behind the U.S decisive verdict were the following: First, the high degree of confusion amongst its allies in the Middle East, which gave the Syrian regime and its allies Iran and Russia the edge. Second, the U.S. was not ready to tolerate the sheer arrogance and recklessness of the Qatari leadership. Third, the U.S. hoped that the Saudis would learn from the lesson taught to the Qataris. Fourth, The U.S. believed that having the Qataris in the back seat, threatening to take over, would give the U.S. added leverage over the Saudis. Fifth, pushing the Qatari Emir to abdicate to his son sends a clear message to the Saudi king to hand over power to the next generation. Sixth, the U.S. is increasingly worried about Saudi Arabia&#8217;s weakening internal front, especially after its patently deceitful myth of being the guardian of Sunni Islam has unravelled, largely due to the Saudi regime&#8217;s full-blown support to tyrannical regimes against the Sunnis in these countries. Seventh, giving the U.S. the golden opportunity to point the finger of blame at the previous Qatari leadership if a new 9/11 &#8211; similar to a terrorist attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi &#8211; took place, rather than blame Saudi Arabia or indeed itself for allowing the Saudis &#8211; as reported by Der Spiegel and Reuters &#8211; to send anti-aircraft missiles to Syrian rebels, which could so easily fall into the hands of Al Qaida.

Knowing, that a change in the Qatari leadership was imminent, Morsi, scrambled to placate Saudi Arabia&#8217;s intense hostility to the MB, by shifting towards the Salafi Wahhabi extremist stances and announcing at a rally held on, Jun. 16, 2013, that he was cutting ties with Syria.

Despite, the Saudi regime&#8217;s ringing endorsement to the military coup and the Saudi king&#8217;s donation on, Jul, 10, of $ 5 bn to the interim leadership; yet, both sides of the Egyptian political divide blame the U.S. for the crisis. Similarly, if the Saudis successfully ignite a regional sectarian war &#8211; to demonstrate to its people that it is heavily engaged in combating an existential threat from the Shia, namely Iran, thus, staving of any internal uprising &#8211; both sides of the sectarian divide would undoubtedly blame the U.S. It is, therefore, high time for the U.S. to promptly start off by acknowledging that its unwavering support to Saudi Arabia &#8211; where the vast majority (15 out of 19) of the 9/11 suicide bombers, never mind, the mastermind, Osama Bin Laden, came from and where almost all the Fatwas giving religious legitimacy to Al Qaida&#8217;s atrocities emanate from &#8211; has played a major role in turning the war on terror into an irrefutably the most successful enterprise for the promotion of terror and undeniably vaulting Al Qaida into prominence through countless new countries and across different continents. Then it is imperative for the U.S. &#8211; if it genuinely strives to halt the menacingly fast-spreading avalanche of extremist Salafi Wahhabi ideology and avoid an all out confrontation with an increasingly radicalised Muslim world &#8211; to forestall Saudi Arabia&#8217;s relentless export of its hard-line Salafi Wahhabi ideology and extremist jihadist fighters, by putting immense pressure on the Saudis, who desperately need U.S. protection, to push them to expand its protection for oil deal into protection for oil and concrete political reform along with democratic change deal.

Zayd Alisa is a political analyst and a writer on Middle East affairs with numerous appearances on various TV channels, including BBC and France 24. Zayd Alisa has published several articles and press releases relating to the Middle East, and has been a human rights activist for twenty five years and have actively promoted democracy and freedom of expression in the Arab world.


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> * These pics summ up everythings..no need to extend more mention..*
> 
> 
> 
> Look junta lover, an legitimate government like the MB government that democratically elected by people has legal rights to make laws or put things into order in all the world.
> 
> But your Pissi's illegal government is just like the child who born out of wedlock and abondoned in courtyard of the mousq has no any illigtimate right even to rule a village of Egypt.
> 
> i hope you have realized the differences between two govs.
> 
> If there was a fair working judiciary system in Egypt Gen. Pissi and his traitor fellows must be judged at once from sellout of country...But no doubt some day that moment will take place in Egypt too just like in Turkey....military minded People like You must realize very well that dictators and military coups era had already over and people never submit to their atrocity more in the ME..No chance for Pissi to be 2 nd Mubarak.Dont cheer in vain.
> 
> 
> 
> Bro, to be honest there is no any differences between Shabihaa thugs of Assad and Baltaji thugs of Sisi. No difference between Assad and Sisi, No difference between meddling in Syria by Iran and meddling in Egypt by KSA..
> The truth hurts..isn't??

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## MooshMoosh

kalu_miah said:


> If there is a civil war between MB and Army, does MB supporters have any possibility of winning? Who is going to back MB financially and with arms and ammunition?
> 
> What is the level of support for MB within the Army? Is it possible that they will stage a counter coup and remove Sissi and his supporters, instead of risking a wider civil war with large casualty?



It's about the ranking, majority of the top officials are seculars so I think it's impossible to remove Pissi. Also, ex Gen Tantawi who removed Mubarak was a secular. It's too unrealistic to confront the Egyptian army but they are divided as well and remember, economically, MB has Qatar, AKP and Islamic parties like Gamal Islamiya international only who recieves fund from them so that's not enough compared to the army who has a powerful ally KSA, UAE and America. If you're thinking of why the Free Syrian Army was easily planned. It's because 85% of the army were Suuni Muslims before the civil war started so that's why they defected quickly, only to refused orders from Assad to kill their majority brothers and sisters. Oh, Egypt has one of the world most prominent scholars like Sheikh Muhammad Hassan who issued a fatwa last month on jihad in Syria infront of 70 world top scholars, Ya'quob or Keweni etc that has followers. They could do a 'fatwa' on solving the Egypt's issue and what should the people do which is a legal binding. Qaradawi already did, I think they answered his call by staying outside. If more killed, then what will happen? The people are still outside so what choice do the army have? it will lead to economical problem, government corruption and bloodshed . 

Morsi supporters hold fresh Egypt protests - Middle East - Al Jazeera English









Remembered the post video here of the airforce commander who supported Morsi. Can't find it on YT now :/

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## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> Actually, Morsi's government was unelected. No one questioned their right to legislate or reform but what was questioned is their level of competence (which was a little above incompetent).
> 
> 
> 
> Morsis constitutional decree which gave him absolute power to make legislative and judicial decisions with immunity from prosecution from any state institution was also illegal and unconstitutional.
> 
> Are you aware that the military proposed a referendum to Morsi on several occasions prior to June the 30th but Morsi refused. If he had accepted and won like he should of if the majority of Egyptians were behind him as he and his brotherhood said then he would of stayed in power and if the result was against him then there would have been presidential elections in which he would of been allowed to run. So why are the MB now offering a referendum but only if Morsi is returned as a ceremonial president isn't it a bit too late?
> 
> By the way your metaphors and your insistence on changing names for the purpose of slander or to mock them makes you sound like a five year old. I would advise you to stop doing that, I'm against Morsi and I haven't messed with his name or insulted the former president.
> 
> 
> 
> One was surprised by the renaissance dam and had no clue at all while the other solved chronic fuel and power problems in a few days?
> 
> 
> 
> Since you have no true understanding of what politics is like and how state institutions work or know the intricacies of Egyptian politics then I would advise you to stop interfering in the nations business until you have an informed and constructive view.
> 
> 
> 
> He didn't mention Rab3a nor peaceful protesters. In fact he assured people had the right to peacefully protest and it is your interpretation of his words that makes you believe this and not whats happening on the ground. There was a march today towards military intelligence HQ by the folks from Rab3a why weren't they shot and killed if they're terrorists?
> 
> Plus do you know the videos you have posted are all labelled police brutality....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again the only source from the military is its spokesman and not a FB page which claims to be official and there has been no such statement.
> 
> You would think the military would know what a Hellfire missile is wouldn't you...



I know, the military claimed they were attacked with US made ballistic shells. Here's one of the sources:

Egyptian soldier killed in Rafah attack | Maan News Agency

On Sunday, gunmen fired *US-made ballistic shells* at a security building in north Sinai, Egypt's Ministry of Interior said.

"Terrorists targeted the security directorate of north of Sinai from a long distance," the ministry said. Security sources detained three suspects in Sinai, after clashing with two of them.


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## Falcon29

Egypt probes blast near Suez Canal | Stuff.co.nz


An official in the Suez Canal Authority said shipping was operating as normal.

Witnesses said they heard an explosion around dawn near a residential area about one kilometre from the canal.

Three security officials speaking on condition of anonymity said they had received reports of a blast and were investigating its cause.

...........


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Mahmoud_EGY said:


>

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## islamrules

Sisi ousting the MB related people from the army (Hamza Abu Alaa Madi son of an islamist leader in jail ) , the police already r doing the same .

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## islamrules




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## islamrules

Israeli ambassador calls Al-Sisi a "national hero for all Jews" - 

The Israeli ambassador in Cairo has told a minister in the interim government that the people of Israel look upon General Abdul-Fattah Al-Sisi as a "national hero". According to Israel Radio, the ambassador rang Agriculture Minister Ayman Abu-Hadid to congratulate him on his new post and said, "Al-Sisi is not a national hero for Egypt, but for all Jews in Israel and around the globe."

Israel is looking forward to the launch of new relationships with Egypt, said Yaakov Amitai, as well as joint efforts in the war on terror. His mention of "terror" is understood to be an oblique reference to President Mohamed Morsi&#8217;s supporters protesting against the coup which removed him from office.

The two men agreed on the resumption of the work of the Supreme Egyptian-Israeli Agricultural Committee. Meetings of the committee are held alternately in Cairo and Tel Aviv every six months. They also agreed to reactivate the Egyptian branch of the Future Leaders Network, which includes Egyptian, Jordanian, Palestinian and Israeli youths.
Israeli ambassador calls Al-Sisi a "national hero for all Jews"

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## islamrules

US Gen confirms the Hellfire has been used by the Egyptian Military


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## kalu_miah

monitor said:


> gypt&#8217;s Muslim Brotherhood First Casualty Of US Verdict: Saudi Arabia Not Qatar, To Lead Arab World &#8211; OpEd
> 
> By Zayd Alisa
> 
> July 26, 2013
> 
> The Egyptian army issued a stern ultimatum, on July 1, 2013, which was ostensibly a stark warning to both, Morsi, the elected president of Egypt &#8211; who represents the Muslim Brotherhood MB &#8211; and on the other side the Tamarod Movement and the National Salvation Front &#8211; which is a loose coalition of secular parties. However, in reality, it was nothing short of a thinly veiled threat to, Morsi, stressing that unless he conceded a significant portion of his powers within 48 hours, the army would oust him. It was abundantly clear that the army has already taken the monumental decision to depose Morsi.
> 
> .......
> 
> Zayd Alisa is a political analyst and a writer on Middle East affairs with numerous appearances on various TV channels, including BBC and France 24. Zayd Alisa has published several articles and press releases relating to the Middle East, and has been a human rights activist for twenty five years and have actively promoted democracy and freedom of expression in the Arab world.



Zayd Alisa is of Iraqi Shia origin and a mouth piece of Iran and Press TV:
PressTV - KSA, Qatar seek a return to Saddam-era in Iraq: Zayd al-Isa

The article is blaming USA, KSA and Qatar for all of Mideast problems and there is no mention of Iran, that says everything about how objective this report is. Next time, read the article content and do some background check of the writer, before spreading Iranian propaganda material.

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## Hussein

French foreign minister asks Egypt to free Morsi and stop violence
in the same speech he said it is important to give weapons to the "right" rebels in Syria (for the hundred time he said it)


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## Ceylal

islamrules said:


> Mohammed Khaled, 26 years old . burnt alive by thugs



good looking fur...kudos to the.....thugs.



al-Hasani said:


> Brothers it pains us Muslims and Arabs to see a neighboring Arab country such as Egypt in such a state.



You are the cause, fils de putes.

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## Ceylal

BlueWarrior said:


> I have my respect to him but there is no point of showing this because there are Middle Eastern government who are like this who have met American and Israel governments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I remember correctly Algeria has full diplomatic relation with the US, so I don't comprehend what Bouteflika's picture with Rumsfeld has to do with the topic. Bouteflika is a lot of things but he is not what you call un "affide" des USA.
> 
> Beside Algeria, Pakistan and Turkey are not in the ME region.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Ceylal said:


> BlueWarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have my respect to him but there is no point of showing this because there are Middle Eastern government who are like this who have met American and Israel governments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I remember correctly Algeria has full diplomatic relation with the US, so I don't comprehend what Bouteflika's picture with Rumsfeld has to do with the topic. Bouteflika is a lot of things but he is not what you call un "affide" des USA.
> 
> Beside Algeria, Pakistan and *Turkey **are not in the ME region*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had no idea Berbers are funny..
Click to expand...


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## Ceylal

tyrant said:


> *I don't want MB members to get hurt but if they try to start "Free Egyptian Army", I want them dead.*


 Force is the only thing they understand. We lived thru that. The reaction of the Egyptian army, although hard to comprehend, is understandable. MB's and Muslim fundamentalist are like the bad weed, if you don't uproot it, it will take over your lawn...Some of you have seen this....




Taken in Algeria after the Bentalha massacre. The Egyptian MB's cheered...That is reminder for the Egyptian fellow contributor of this forum, wise up...



babajees said:


> Horrified by the Egyptian Army's Massacre of* innocent Muslims*!


Not that innocent...


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## Ceylal

farag said:


> Since mursi is so much loved and legitimate, how about another election?
> I was one of the 51% votes of mursi. My whole family voted for him.


The polls showed that less than 25% of the Egyptian electorate participated. Normally election should have been cancelled then and another one scheduled. El Ikhwan were put there by other interests than the Egyptian one.

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## Ceylal

Hussein said:


> French foreign minister asks Egypt to free Morsi and stop violence
> in the same speech he said it is important to give weapons to the "right" rebels in Syria (for the hundred time he said it)



The french are always a day late and a dollars short. 
Egyptian reply...








BLACKEAGLE said:


> Ceylal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had no idea Berbers are funny..
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey is in* Asia*.. yakhi.Khorga sowda! yakhi
Click to expand...

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## BLACKEAGLE

Ceylal said:


> Turkey is in* Asia*.. yakhi.Khorga sowda! yakhi




So, it's not in the ME Berber? And please, use Engless, Berber language is dead as you know, nobody knows it.


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## Frogman

Hazzy997 said:


> I know, the military claimed they were attacked with US made ballistic shells. Here's one of the sources:
> 
> Egyptian soldier killed in Rafah attack | Maan News Agency
> 
> On Sunday, gunmen fired *US-made ballistic shells* at a security building in north Sinai, Egypt's Ministry of Interior said.
> 
> "Terrorists targeted the security directorate of north of Sinai from a long distance," the ministry said. Security sources detained three suspects in Sinai, after clashing with two of them.




The only source for news and statements is its official spokesman and not "military officials".



> Morsi supporters hold fresh Egypt protests - Middle East - Al Jazeera English
> 
> Morsi supporters hold fresh Egypt protests - Middle East - Al Jazeera English
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remembered the post video here of the airforce commander who supported Morsi. Can't find it on YT now :/




The videos and pictures of that event were already proven to be insignificant. The soldiers held Morsi pictures after they were met by protesters in front of the media city and promptly asked them to leave which they did. The air force "commander" who wore the rank of a first lieutenant IIRC was arrested and charged as he wasn't a real officer.



Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


>



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20945844

Eventually they donated over 8Billion dollars.



islamrules said:


> Sisi ousting the MB related people from the army (Hamza Abu Alaa Madi son of an islamist leader in jail ) , the police already r doing the same .



A conscript is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Sisi doesnt have anything to do with firing people. The decision was probably taken by his CO or drill instructor.


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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> Israeli ambassador calls Al-Sisi a "national hero for all Jews" -
> 
> The Israeli ambassador in Cairo has told a minister in the interim government that the people of Israel look upon General Abdul-Fattah Al-Sisi as a "national hero". According to Israel Radio, the ambassador rang Agriculture Minister Ayman Abu-Hadid to congratulate him on his new post and said, "Al-Sisi is not a national hero for Egypt, but for all Jews in Israel and around the globe."
> 
> Israel is looking forward to the launch of new relationships with Egypt, said Yaakov Amitai, as well as joint efforts in the war on terror. His mention of "terror" is understood to be an oblique reference to President Mohamed Morsis supporters protesting against the coup which removed him from office.
> 
> The two men agreed on the resumption of the work of the Supreme Egyptian-Israeli Agricultural Committee. Meetings of the committee are held alternately in Cairo and Tel Aviv every six months. They also agreed to reactivate the Egyptian branch of the Future Leaders Network, which includes Egyptian, Jordanian, Palestinian and Israeli youths.
> Israeli ambassador calls Al-Sisi a "national hero for all Jews"








At least Sisi never called Shimon Peres his dear friend.

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## kalu_miah

MooshMoosh said:


> It's about the ranking, majority of the top officials are seculars so I think it's impossible to remove Pissi. Also, ex Gen Tantawi who removed Mubarak was a secular. It's too unrealistic to confront the Egyptian army but they are divided as well and remember, economically, MB has Qatar, AKP and Islamic parties like Gamal Islamiya international only who recieves fund from them so that's not enough compared to the army who has a powerful ally KSA, UAE and America. If you're thinking of why the Free Syrian Army was easily planned. It's because 85% of the army were Suuni Muslims before the civil war started so that's why they defected quickly, only to refused orders from Assad to kill their majority brothers and sisters. Oh, Egypt has one of the world most prominent scholars like Sheikh Muhammad Hassan who issued a fatwa last month on jihad in Syria infront of 70 world top scholars, Ya'quob or Keweni etc that has followers. They could do a 'fatwa' on solving the Egypt's issue and what should the people do which is a legal binding. Qaradawi already did, I think they answered his call by staying outside. If more killed, then what will happen? The people are still outside so what choice do the army have? it will lead to economical problem, government corruption and bloodshed .
> 
> Morsi supporters hold fresh Egypt protests - Middle East - Al Jazeera English
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remembered the post video here of the airforce commander who supported Morsi. Can't find it on YT now :/



Perhaps Morsi made some blunders and enemies of MB took him down. Now what?

MB is continuing to protest, as you said following Qaradawi's fatwa. And Sisi is continuing to crack down reviving Mubarak era secret police:
Egypt restores feared secret police units | World news | The Guardian

Catherine Ashton is trying to bring the parties together in some sort of inclusive political deal:
'Inclusive' political solution urged in Egypt - CNN.com
EU envoy launches another attempt to cool tensions in Egypt - World News



> *The Salafist Nour Party &#8212; which swept parliamentary elections with the Muslim Brotherhood after the Arab Spring uprising in 2001 but initially accepted the interim government earlier this month &#8212; issued its strongest criticism yet on Monday, saying security forces were revisiting what it called "the 'Hitlerite' and fascist practices" of the past.
> 
> Galal al-Morra, the party's secretary general, told reporters that the new government appeared intent on "persecuting" and "marginalizing" Islamists, the Middle East News Agency reported.
> "The people who have gained their freedom will not let go of it," he said.*



I would not trust EU or USA to do any positive work. It is USA who keeps the Army as the last arbiter of power always in its pocket using aid money, to protect US and Israeli interest. And EU is just following US directives mostly.

Is it possible for the Gulf Monarchs to lead an Arab League peace initiative that will look like the following:

1. Give a stern warning to Sisi to stop the bloodshed, stop repressing the MB leaders, release them from jail, allow them to continue their protest to vent their frustration, to press for any demand in a peaceful way and if anyone goes violent, deal with them in a non-lethal way

2. Bring all sides of the political divide, including MB, to solve the immediate problems, like:
- rewriting a new constitution
- hold a referendum on the new constitution
- plan for new presidential and parliamentary elections
- make sure MB agrees to participate in these elections
- make sure that Army (supported by the West) does not involve in rigging to install their puppet politicians in power
- create poll watching orgs with experienced and credible individuals from Arab League, OIC and other neutral countries friendly to Muslims

The goal should be to convince MB to leave the path of confrontation with a promise of a fair and rig-free elections, repression-free political process and actually deliver on that promise. Hopefully Gulf countries will be able to force Sisi on these issues using the $12B aid money as leverage.

The above could be a blue print to solve the trust deficit between GCC countries and MB, which is going to be good for long term stability of GCC as well as all other countries in Arab League.

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## kalu_miah

An excellent analysis of current situation in Egypt:

BBC News - How can Egypt get out of crisis?

*How can Egypt get out of crisis?*
By Gerald Butt
Middle East analyst
29 July 2013

Egypt must brace itself for many more days, if not weeks, of political turmoil and violence. But there are no signs at this stage that a Syria-style conflict will engulf the country.

Egyptians are discovering in a more public and painful way than other Arab Spring states that removing long-standing authoritarian rule is a lot easier than replacing it with another system of governance.

The priority of the popular uprisings was to topple dictatorships, and little thought was given to what might come next.

The general assumption was that freeing Arab countries from autocracy would automatically herald democracy. But this is where the Arab Spring has come unstuck. For a prerequisite of democracy is politics.

In order for politics to flourish one needs open debate. Yet open debate is not easy to achieve in a country like Egypt where there is no tradition, from school onwards, of the frank analysis of ideas, and the free and peaceful exchange of opinions.

In the absence of all the above, Egypt is floundering as it seeks to create a post-Mubarak political system. The most dangerous symptom of this is polarisation and the absence of willingness to compromise for the sake of the country as a whole.

The political process since the fall of ousted former leader Hosni Mubarak has served only to emphasise the schism in Egyptian society. The Muslim Brotherhood won elections, but then failed to persuade millions of Egyptians that their policies were inclusive.

The army responded to popular dissatisfaction with President Mohammed Morsi by toppling the Muslim Brotherhood administration and thereby alienating something between a third and half the population.

That, surely, should have been the moment for calm attempts at political reconciliation. But, with Mr Morsi under lock and key and with clashes between rival groups on the streets, the military made what was arguably the most damaging decision of all: it urged anti-Morsi protesters to stage a mass rally to give the army a popular mandate to take tough measures against its opponents.

In a stroke, this announcement cut the legs off the ailing figure of Egyptian democracy - for it sanctified the street as the main platform for politics, with force of numbers, rocks, tear gas and bullets taking the place of rational debate.

*Bruising confrontation*

The formidable challenge for Egypt today is to rescue politics from the street as the first step towards national reconciliation. The problem is finding the means to achieve this.

Until Mohammed Morsi was ousted, the army was regarded as the sole political arbiter in Egypt
The military shows no signs of backing down. Rather, it is stepping up pressure on the Muslim Brotherhood and its supporters, arresting its leaders and threatening to disperse demonstrators.

The Brotherhood, for its part, insists that protests will continue until the military-backed government steps down and the democratically elected one is returned to power. The killings of dozens of Islamists in clashes with the army have only hardened attitudes.

Up until the ousting of Mr Morsi on 3 July, the army was regarded as the sole political arbiter in Egypt. With the military now siding with the anti-Morsi camp, it has lost that role.

No other Egyptian institution or individual appears to be able to take it on.

Arab mediation is unlikely, given the schism in the region over the army's move, with a number of states delighted to see the Muslim Brotherhood and political Islam humiliated.

Diplomatic intervention from outside the region is likely to be viewed by both entrenched sides as unwarranted interference.

So in the short term, there seems little hope for anything other than bruising street confrontations between Morsi supporters on one side, and the military (and anti-Morsi crowds) on the other.

Full-scale civil war in the traditional sense will be avoided simply because the Islamists lack the fire power and armaments for a full confrontation with the army. Also, unlike Syria, regional powers have no vested interests in stoking the conflict.

Hope?
Nevertheless, continuing violence will mean yet more chaos, leading to increased disruption to the economy and daily life.

Herein, perhaps, lies a glimmer of hope.

Soaring unemployment and poverty might in the end force Egyptians to put aside their differences and demand that their leaders do the same to save the whole country from social and economic collapse.

At that point, Egypt will still need men and women courageous enough to encourage free and inclusive debate, thus laying the foundations of politics and democracy that the country and all Arab Spring countries desperately need.

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## babajees

Ceylal said:


> Force is the only thing they understand. We lived thru that. The reaction of the Egyptian army, although hard to comprehend, is understandable. MB's and Muslim fundamentalist are like the bad weed, if you don't uproot it, it will take over your lawn...Some of you have seen this....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taken in Algeria after the Bentalha massacre. The Egyptian MB's cheered...That is reminder for the Egyptian fellow contributor of this forum, wise up...
> 
> 
> Not that innocent...



are you mad? the BenTalha massacare had NOTHING to do with the MB. it was in Algeria! Its like saying, Oh, the Egypt Army is so crap cause its supported by USA who cheered/orchestraded all MASSACARES IN ISRAEL (btw, israel is also an ally of Egypt Army.. :p)


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## Frogman

> are you mad? the BenTalha massacare had NOTHING to do with the MB. it was in Algeria!



The MB is an international organization which inspired Islamist's around the world to set up their own political/religious organizations after it gained (some) support and following in the nation it originated in, Egypt. 



> Oh, the Egypt Army is so crap cause its supported by USA who cheered/orchestraded all MASSACARES IN ISRAEL



The Egyptian military is an institution and isn't an international political movement and it has never voiced public opinions on American foreign policy (either cheering it or condemning it), however, what it has done is sacrifice Egyptians for the land you just mentioned.



> (btw, israel is also an ally of Egypt Army.. :p)



No.


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## islamrules

*Mohammed Khaled, 26 years old . burnt alive by thugs*

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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> *Mohammed Khaled, 26 years old . burnt alive by thugs*



This incident was found to be completely unrelated to the current political crisis. Two Copts were murdered that day and some idiots sought revenge and targeted Islamists. They came across this innocent individual and his shop and they murdered him. The victim had no relation with the MB nor was he an Islamist.

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## islamrules



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## Ceylal

babajees said:


> are you mad? the BenTalha massacare had NOTHING to do with the* MB*. it was in Algeria!


Get real, the MB are an Egyptian creation, but they have offshoots in every country where Islam is practiced. 



> Its like saying, Oh, the Egypt Army is so crap cause its supported by USA who cheered/orchestraded all MASSACARES IN ISRAEL (*btw, israel is also an ally of Egypt Army.*. :p)



Egypt, having diplomatic relations with Israel does not mean they are Allies...Army of a country can be an ally a foreign government.


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## Ceylal

BLACKEAGLE said:


> So, it's not in the ME Berber? And please, use Engless, *Berber language* is dead as you know, nobody knows it.


Dead in your eyes only...It is alive and well


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## agentny17

The end is near.... Let me quote Mr. George W. Bush: "you're either with us, or against us". You don't need anybody's or country's approval to fight terrorism and and stop violence, killing, and kidnapping. I understand that a lot of Muslims are sympathetic toward the Muslim Brotherhood, but you guys need to realize that they are nothing to be proud of to the extent that a big portion of an ultra conservative society like the Egyptian society is asking for a stop to using religion in politics. You guys should stand with the Egyptian people, not with a political party. Either way, its over for the Islamists and my advice to you guys to stand with freedom, human rights, women rights, equality, ect.... If you don't, its your loss. We(Egyptians) are determined to end terrorism and violence in our country and put our country on the right path of development and progress.

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## agentny17

*Senate kills Rand Paul attempt to cut Egypt aid*

The vote was to table the amendment, meaning a &#8220;yea&#8221; vote was against Paul&#8217;s plan. The vote was 86-13.

The floor debate was virtually everyone versus Paul. Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) said cutting off aid to Egypt would also hurt Israel, a close ally.
&#8220;This is a question of whether the senator from Kentucky knows what&#8217;s better for Israel, or if Israel knows what&#8217;s better for Israel,&#8221; McCain said.
On multiple occasions, when asked to yield for questions &#8211; including one from McCain &#8211; Paul said &#8220;not now&#8221; and continued imploring his colleagues to see his side.
Inhofe, the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services committee, said some of Paul&#8217;s points are &#8220;totally wrong&#8221; and said if the U.S. cuts aid to Egypt, the money &#8220;vacuum&#8221; will quickly be filled by other countries like Russia. Such a series of events could then harm Israel, he said.
&#8220;This is coming from a conservative, not a liberal, not a Democrat,&#8221; Inhofe said. &#8220;If you have any feelings at all for our best friends in the Middle East &#8212; that&#8217;s Israel &#8212; then you can&#8217;t consider this amendment. Israel has all the interests at stake.&#8221;

Read more: Senate kills Rand Paul attempt to cut Egypt aid - Burgess Everett - POLITICO.com

*Why U.S. Aid to Egypt Is Here to Stay*

But most Democrats and Republicans continue to believe revoking aid would deprive Washington of what Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Bob Menendez recently called its &#8220;leverage&#8221; over Egypt&#8217;s generals. As my colleague Michael Crowley noted, Washington also sensitive to the aid&#8217;s connection to the 1978 Camp David Accords establishing peace between Israel and the Arab world&#8217;s most populous state.

*U.S. aid also buys valuable cooperation between the Pentagon and SCAF, Egypt&#8217;s Supreme Council of Allied Forces, including joint counter-terrorism operations in Egypt&#8217;s Sinai desert, a hotbed of Islamic militant activity. It also allows U.S. aircraft overflight privileges in Egyptian airspace, and gives U.S. vessels priority passage through the Suez Canal. In fact, the U.S. is the world&#8217;s only nation entitled to &#8220;cut the line&#8221; at the crowded canal &#8211; usually months long &#8211; and to sail nuclear-armed and powered vessels through it. (Other nuclear powers must send their Middle East-bound ships around the horn of Africa &#8211; a long and costly round trip.)*

Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/07/31/why-u-s-aid-to-egypt-is-here-to-stay/#ixzz2adxcs1Uc

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## Syrian Lion

*Egyptians in USA demonstrate in support of Egyptian Army and support for Syria and the Syrian President 
*

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## Yzd Khalifa

@kalu_miah 

Hey there, 

I apologize for not getting back to you on time, life has been crazy these two days as Ramadan keeps moving fast and forward to its end, getting ready for my holiday. 

Neither the EU or the US should dictate what the Egyptian should do and what they shouldn't. The US, Israel, and Egypt are expected to honor the Camp David agreement, but according to US military aid terms and conditions, the US would be able to suspend its military aid to a country which its military has overthrown its Government - usually civilian governments - 

Al-Nour party appears to be divided wether to join the provisional Gov't or not, pushing toward election. Some of Al-Nour figures had already stressed out the need for a national unity these days, but, due to the MB's disposal of power, Al-Nour had rejected the Sisi's first call, but later agreed to hold talks for making some sort of concession. Today, the situation appears to be a little bit complicated in there, but I support the promptness and the determination by the civilians and the military to counter the havoc that has been created by the MB and their supporters, the situation appears to be unbearably difficult to all parties involved. 

One of the most notable Salafi figures had been extremely critical with the MB behavior these days, let's be fair, Abu Ishaq Al Heweny isn't a leftist, or liberal, or a member of the MB, or a military figure. He put it as simple as this in his own Salafistic way that " God - or Allah - had given the MB the power to rule Egypt, and they failed, and he took it away from them to give them a lesson " 

Even though that I'm not a conservative but the man did put it plainly and simply. The MB has to behave maturely, let go, the vast majority of the Egyptian people don't want you to remain in power any longer. 

As for the role that KSA may play to stabilize Egypt, I think the Egyptian people enjoy their own right to allow us in or it. But, it is highly unlikely that the AL or other GCC State would get involve in Egypt's internal affairs, KSA is exceptional.

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## kalu_miah

Yzd Khalifa said:


> @kalu_miah
> 
> Hey there,
> 
> I apologize for not getting back to you on time, life has been crazy these two days as Ramadan keeps moving fast and forward to its end, getting ready for my holiday.
> 
> Neither the EU or the US should dictate what the Egyptian should do and what they shouldn't. The US, Israel, and Egypt are expected to honor the Camp David agreement, but according to US military aid terms and conditions, the US would be able to suspend its military aid to a country which its military has overthrown its Government - usually civilian governments -
> 
> Al-Nour party appears to be divided wether to join the provisional Gov't or not, pushing toward election. Some of Al-Nour figures had already stressed out the need for a national unity these days, but, due to the MB's disposal of power, Al-Nour had rejected the Sisi's first call, but later agreed to hold talks for making some sort of concession. Today, the situation appears to be a little bit complicated in there, but I support the promptness and the determination by the civilians and the military to counter the havoc that has been created by the MB and their supporters, the situation appears to be unbearably difficult to all parties involved.
> 
> One of the most notable Salafi figures had been extremely critical with the MB behavior these days, let's be fair, Abu Ishaq Al Heweny isn't a leftist, or liberal, or a member of the MB, or a military figure. He put it as simple as this in his own Salafistic way that " God - or Allah - had given the MB the power to rule Egypt, and they failed, and he took it away from them to give them a lesson "
> 
> Even though that I'm not a conservative but the man did put it plainly and simply. The MB has to behave maturely, let go, the vast majority of the Egyptian people don't want you to remain in power any longer.
> 
> As for the role that KSA may play to stabilize Egypt, I think the Egyptian people enjoy their own right to allow us in or it. But, it is highly unlikely that the AL or other GCC State would get involve in Egypt's internal affairs, KSA is exceptional.



Thanks for your kind response bro. As explained in earlier posts, I also wished and hoped that MB would not choose the path of confrontation and in the process hurt themselves and the country. But they are who they are, if not they could probably avoid this situation in the first place.

Regardless of their mistakes, they have an image of fighting for the common disenfranchised and poor Muslim simple folk. And they or different incarnation of the same group may come out the winner eventually after decades, just like AKP did in Turkey. But then Egypt is not Turkey and I do not have the crystal ball, its just one of the possibilities. So considering this eventual turn of event of MB incarnations prevailing the winner in the end, even if it has small probability of becoming true, I think all parties involved, secular/liberal Egyptian Muslims, Salafi groups, Army top brass, security forces and external players (GCC and West) - need to handle MB with care. Sisi policies of cracking down on MB, arrest MB leaders and killing MB protesters, I think will come back to haunt him and his backers.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Nizar Abboud   

A US nationalized Shabih   


Syrian Lion said:


> *Egyptians in USA demonstrate in support of Egyptian Army and support for Syria and the Syrian President
> *

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## Yzd Khalifa

You're welcome my fellow. I wished that the MB didn't bring it to this level of unrest, but they pushed to the limits and now they are paying for it.


kalu_miah said:


> Thanks for your kind response bro. As explained in earlier posts, I also wished and hoped that MB would not choose the path of confrontation and in the process hurt themselves and the country. But they are who they are, if not they could probably avoid this situation in the first place.
> 
> Regardless of their mistakes, they have an image of fighting for the common disenfranchised and poor Muslim simple folk. And they or different incarnation of the same group may come out the winner eventually after decades, just like AKP did in Turkey. But then Egypt is not Turkey and I do not have the crystal ball, its just one of the possibilities. So considering this eventual turn of event of MB incarnations prevailing the winner in the end, even if it has small probability of becoming true, I think all parties involved, secular/liberal Egyptian Muslims, Salafi groups, Army top brass, security forces and external players (GCC and West) - need to handle MB with care. Sisi policies of cracking down on MB, arrest MB leaders and killing MB protesters, I think will come back to haunt him and his backers.



I don't think the West will help the Egyptians, they will only offer a lip-service demanding the release of Morsi, and trust me, I have dealt with those military men, they're hot-headed, become more aggressive when it comes to their own homeland. The Egyptian Military feels guilty that it didn't stop the local police when they cracked down on the Egyptian people during Jan 25 revolution, as we call it, it is the same guilt that KSA feels when they isolated themselves in 2011.

Even if Gen. Sisi is going to be hunted down by the MB or whatever, it won't make much of a difference to those who regard him as a national hero for what he stood for. Plus, he doesn't bear the full responsibility for what is taking place, the provisional Gov't is in the game already.

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## BlueWarrior

It's pretty sad, Egypt is suffering the same fate again. 
Egypt restores feared secret police units | World news | The Guardian


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## BLACKEAGLE



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## agentny17

*PUTTING EGYPT IN CONTEXT &#8211; WHAT IF PRESIDENT OBAMA DID WHAT MORSI DID?*

I received this from an Egyptian friend and I would like to share it with as many Americans as possible to help them unravel the events in Egypt.

I changed very little, only a few things to make it an easier read. So here&#8217;s exactly what happened in Egypt over the past 12 months, but expressed in &#8220;American&#8221; terms (such as substituting U.S. President Barack Obama&#8217;s name for that of deposed Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi).

There are no exaggerations or lies. All these events actually took place in Egypt.

Try to imagine if &#8230;

On June 30, 2012, democratically elected Barack Obama wins the election by a razor thin margin of 50.7% of the vote, takes the oath, and is sworn in as president of the United States.

The first five months of his term go relatively smoothly, where he makes almost no decisions (except for some dubious presidential pardons to a dozen convicted terrorists, including some convicted for their part in the assassination of a former president, and issues pardons to a number of convicted criminals and drug dealers ).

Suddenly, on Nov. 21, 2012, and despite his razor thin victory margin, President Obama issues a presidential decree giving himself sweeping powers, to the extent that his future decrees become un-contestable in any court, beyond all judicial review and in effect his decisions henceforth are akin to the word of God. His laws are a new Bible.

Nationwide protests erupt as a result of this decree and 1.5 million Americans organize a sit-in at the White House to peacefully request he rescind his presidential decrees.

Some of Obama&#8217;s hard line Democratic Party supporters attack the peaceful sit-in outside the White House with guns and shoot five peaceful protesters dead.

A few weeks later demonstrators of the hard core Democratic Party surround the U.S. Supreme Court, preventing the justices from convening so as to prevent any judicial review of the president&#8217;s decisions. Instead of protecting the judiciary, Obama dissolves the U.S. Supreme Court and labels its members all &#8220;traitors to America.&#8221;

One short week later, he fires the U.S. Attorney General and personally appoints a Democratic partisan to replace him without going through the Constitutional due process.

A month later, he annuls the U.S, Constitution and forms a &#8220;constitutional committee&#8221; to draft a new constitution in four days, (the committee includes no Republicans or Independents, no Muslims or Jews, and only a handful of women &#8230; and is composed primarily of Democrats & religious hardline preachers).

In a referendum not supervised by any judicial branch ( as judges all over the U.S. boycotted the process ), this constitution narrowly wins, and President Obama ratifies it the very next morning (despite it having only receiving the approval of 18% of all Americans).

Within a month, he invites top global terrorists, known jihadists and al-Qaeda members, from all over the world, to a rally in Yankee Stadium, where he cuts ties with and declares war on Canada.

Throughout this whole time, the U.S. economy is sinking, the stock market collapsing, foreign investment has all but stopped, tourism has died, and electricity, fuel, and water shortages are a daily occurrence.

Unemployment has almost doubled, and the U.S. dollar has lost 20 percent of its value globally.

Oh, and President Obama also outlines his new plans to lease the entire Silicon Valley area to China for 50 years (with full administrative control)&#8230;

With only .07% majority, democratically elected President Barack Obama has done all the above in his FIRST YEAR IN OFFICE!!!

Ultimately, on June 30, 2013, 110 million Americans take to the streets in 50 states to peacefully and politely demand &#8212; for four straight days &#8212; that democratically elected President Obama leave office immediately, and that he not serve his remaining three years.

Instead of listening to the people, President Obama goes on TV during prime time hours and threatens the nation with veiled and not-so-veiled threats.

To protect the 110 million Americans, the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the U.S. military ask Obama to step down, and because Congress was dissolved earlier this year due to the unconstitutionality of its election, the country is turned over to the chief justice of the Supreme Court.

That&#8217;s it in a nutshell.

Who would you say had &#8220;legitimacy&#8221; in this case if it had been America?

&#8220;Democratically&#8221; elected President Barrack Obama, or the 110 million Americans who, in effect, fired him?

Putting Egypt in Context &#8211; What If President Obama Did What Morsi Did? | TheBlaze.com

Can any pro-Morsi member gives me his/her take on this ?!!

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## islamrules

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1394414854115351





This guy's thanking UAE and SA for supporting the coup, before he was threatening them in a shia TV with revolutions that would sweep away their trones


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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1394414854115351
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy's thanking UAE and SA for supporting the coup, before he was threatening them in a shia TV with revolutions that would sweep away their trones



So by your logic you can't thank someone but still have a view that they will lose their thrones......

You're running out of things to post, aren't you?

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## Solomon2

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I don't think the West will help the Egyptians, they will only offer a lip-service demanding the release of Morsi, and trust me, I have dealt with those military men, they're hot-headed, become more aggressive when it comes to their own homeland. The Egyptian Military feels guilty that it didn't stop the local police when they cracked down on the Egyptian people during Jan 25 revolution, as we call it, it is the same guilt that KSA feels when they isolated themselves in 2011.
> 
> Even if Gen. Sisi is going to be hunted down by the MB or whatever, it won't make much of a difference to those who regard him as a national hero for what he stood for. Plus, he doesn't bear the full responsibility for what is taking place, the provisional Gov't is in the game already.


I think we can both be thankful - for now - that the likes of Anwar Gargash and King Abdullah have more say in the direction of Egyptian affairs than the current U.S. and Turkish presidents or Pakistan's foreign ministry.

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## agentny17

Solomon2 said:


> I think we can both be thankful - for now - that the likes of Anwar Gargash and King Abdullah have more say in the direction of Egyptian affairs than the current U.S. and Turkish presidents or Pakistan's foreign ministry.


Can you please explain to me what is the US thinking by supporting the Muslim Brotherhood ?!!


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## agentny17

*Obama administration losing credibility in Cairo*
WASHINGTON &#8212; The administration of President Barack Obama has seen the deterioration of U.S. influence in Egypt under the new military-backed regime.
Officials acknowledged that the head of the military coup that ousted President Mohammed Morsi has been resistant to U.S. pleas and even threats to end the crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood.
The officials said Defense Minister Abdul Fatah Sisi, who ordered the overthrow of Egypt&#8217;s first Islamist president, has told the administration that he would not tolerate U.S. interference in his country.
&#8220;There is a complete gap in perception,&#8221; an official said. &#8220;The administration sees what happened in Egypt as the destruction of a budding democracy, while the [Egyptian] military believes that it saved the country from turning into another Libya or Syria.&#8221;
Officials said the U.S. intelligence community and State Department issued what turned out to be a mistaken assessment of Sisi. They said the State Department had reckoned that Sisi, who spent years in U.S. military schools, would be more supportive of cooperation with Washington than his predecessors.
&#8220;Sisi has been dismissive of U.S. concerns and his response to us has been much harsher than either Morsi or [his predecessor Hosni]
Mubarak,&#8221; a second official said.
&#8220;Ironically, Sisi has used his considerable knowledge of and contracts in Washington to resist any U.S. pressure,&#8221; the official said. &#8220;He knows our vulnerable points.&#8221;
In July, Sisi received numerous phone calls from leading U.S. officials,
including President Barack Obama. Most of the phone calls came from Defense
Secretary Chuck Hagel, Secretary of State John Kerry and U.S. ambassador to
Egypt, Anne Patterson, with a peak in communications reported on July 27
when at least 75 people were killed in clashes between Brotherhood
protesters and security forces.
The latest telephone conversation by Hagel and Sisi took place on July
30. Officials said Hagel again urged restraint by Egyptian security
forces in dealing with the Brotherhood.
&#8220;Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel spoke by phone today with Egyptian
Defense Minister Gen. Abdul Fatah El Sissi to discuss the security situation
in Egypt and to urge restraint by Egyptian security forces in dealing with
ongoing protests,&#8221; Pentagon spokesman George Little said.
Officials said Sisi has also not been swayed by threats by Congress to
suspend annual U.S. aid of $1.5 billion to Egypt. They said the defense
minister demonstrated his clout when he won pledges of $12 billion from such
Gulf Cooperation Council allies as Egypt, Kuwait and the United Arab
Emirates.
&#8220;The truth is we don&#8217;t have a lever over him,&#8221; the official said.
&#8220;He has the lever over us.&#8221;
On July 30, Obama asked two leading Republican senators to visit Egypt
and meet Sisi. Sen. Lindsey Graham said he and Sen. John McCain, both deemed
supporters of Egypt&#8217;s military, would relay a message to Sisi to
arrange for new elections after the ouster of Morsi.
&#8220;We want to deliver a unified message that killing the opposition is
becoming more and more like a coup,&#8221; Graham said. &#8220;&#8230;I&#8217;d like to go over
there and talk to the military and to any members of the government and
Brotherhood factions to find out what is going on the ground, and send a
clear message to the people in charge of Egypt that there are certain
expectations here in America that are bipartisan in nature.&#8221;
Officials said the administration and the congressional leadership have
agreed that Egypt&#8217;s lever over Washington was U.S. military access to the
Suez Canal. They said any Egyptian halt or even reduction to the canal would
threaten the war in Afghanistan as well as plans by Obama for a withdrawal
in 2014. On July 30, an explosion was reported near the Suez Canal.

Obama administration losing credibility in Cairo | World Tribune

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## Solomon2

agentny17 said:


> Can you please explain to me what is the US thinking by supporting the Muslim Brotherhood ?!!


It's ugly: appeasing terrorists.

The Obama administration has urged the Egyptian military to stop using heavy-handed tactics against the Muslim Brotherhood, according to two U.S. officials who asked not to be identified commenting on private communications. They said the U.S. is concerned that some in the military may want to provoke the Islamists to violence and provide a rationale for crushing the movement once and for all.
Such a move would fail and probably prompt a shift to al-Qaeda type terrorist tactics by extremists in the Islamist movement in Egypt and elsewhere, the U.S. officials said.

In other words, Obama's afraid that if he doesn't support M-B then fanatics might try blowing people up here in the U.S. Muslims do not have a monopoly when it comes to appeasing terrorists. That probably also suffices to explain half of Obama's Israel and Turkey policies.

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## agentny17

Solomon2 said:


> It's ugly: appeasing terrorists.
> 
> The Obama administration has urged the Egyptian military to stop using heavy-handed tactics against the Muslim Brotherhood, according to two U.S. officials who asked not to be identified commenting on private communications. They said the U.S. is concerned that some in the military may want to provoke the Islamists to violence and provide a rationale for crushing the movement once and for all.
> Such a move would fail and probably prompt a shift to al-Qaeda type terrorist tactics by extremists in the Islamist movement in Egypt and elsewhere, the U.S. officials said.
> 
> In other words, Obama's afraid that if he doesn't support M-B then fanatics might try blowing people up here in the U.S. Muslims do not have a monopoly when it comes to appeasing terrorists. That probably also suffices to explain half of Obama's Israel and Turkey policies.



Well, thanks heavens General Sisi is not paying attentions to any advises from the US administration. This is one opportunity to end the Muslim Brotherhood for good, and any LEADER would be stupid to waste it!!

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## Solomon2

agentny17 said:


> Well, thanks heavens General Sisi is not paying attentions to any advises from the US administration. This is one opportunity to end the Muslim Brotherhood for good, and any LEADER would be stupid to waste it!!


Hopefully the next U.S. president will be more like GWB was. 

For Egypt the critical political crisis is yet to come: the contest between the military and the pro-democracy forces. The surest way to hold such a conflict to a minimum, I guess, is for activists to spread democratic values through both the military and the populace. _*Do not ignore this task.*_ That's what pro-democracy activists did from 2007 to 2012. You've got to swing the majority onto your side and it's going to be very difficult without the U.S. and with the Saudis and Emiratis tempted to bribe Egypt's military to build a dictatorship under their influence rather than a functioning republic.


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## agentny17

Better late than never!! These guys the state department get paid a lot of money, and it seems the i know about the situation more than them!! 

*Secretary of State Kerry says Egyptian military restored democracy, didn't take over Egypt
*
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/0...ored-democracy-didnt-take-over/#ixzz2akXQjoLY

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## Yzd Khalifa

Fire!!!!!!!!!!!! 

&#x202b;

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## Frogman

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Fire!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> &#8235;



GET SOME!

Thank you, come again


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## Yzd Khalifa

Frogman said:


> GET SOME!
> 
> Thank you, come again



Illegally shoot the son of witches 



Solomon2 said:


> Hopefully the next U.S. president will be more like GWB was.
> 
> For Egypt the critical political crisis is yet to come: the contest between the military and the pro-democracy forces. The surest way to hold such a conflict to a minimum, I guess, is for activists to spread democratic values through both the military and the populace. _*Do not ignore this task.*_ That's what pro-democracy activists did from 2007 to 2012. You've got to swing the majority onto your side and it's going to be very difficult without the U.S. and with *the Saudis* and Emiratis tempted to bribe Egypt's military to build a dictatorship under their influence rather than a functioning republic.



KSA aid package was announced nearly a year and something ago, I hardly think that Al-Sisi is a man who could be bribed, he's a man of honor.


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## Yzd Khalifa

Such argument is sound and legitimate, but I suspect that the Obama's administration didn't do much out of fear from some radical elements that MAY reside in the US. 

What I'm saying is that the Obama's administration was bidding on the MB to rule Egypt, they were financed and backed by Obama, even to this day the US appears to be a bit reluctant to address what they have in mind. 

It goes as simple as this, the US didn't want to kill a one-year-old democracy "fetus", even if it was built by such group as the MB.


Solomon2 said:


> It's ugly: appeasing terrorists.
> 
> The Obama administration has urged the Egyptian military to stop using heavy-handed tactics against the Muslim Brotherhood, according to two U.S. officials who asked not to be identified commenting on private communications. They said the U.S. is concerned that some in the military may want to provoke the Islamists to violence and provide a rationale for crushing the movement once and for all.
> Such a move would fail and probably prompt a shift to al-Qaeda type terrorist tactics by extremists in the Islamist movement in Egypt and elsewhere, the U.S. officials said.
> 
> In other words, Obama's afraid that if he doesn't support M-B then fanatics might try blowing people up here in the U.S. Muslims do not have a monopoly when it comes to appeasing terrorists. That probably also suffices to explain half of Obama's Israel and Turkey policies.



I don't think they would really bother about what might happen if Morsi is still in power for the next three years.

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## MooshMoosh

The second worse than Mubarak govt's ordered to crush down the protesters (tonight), ban fajr prayer, cut down electricity supply to the masjed"s", Pissi's miniter Youssef Hossain said Salah'din was an insult to Egypt, Hayah Derdary said don't let your children go to mosque or they'll turn like Ikhwan" and they even arrested scholars while infidels(coptics) publicity enjoyed bloodshed. Just like Mustafa Ataturk, incase if you don't know what he did, please read what he banned. Either a civil war, kick out Gen Pissi or live under the kemalist ultra secular dictatorship who destroyed Islam in Turkey, no Muslims want that in Egypt except munafiqs and infidels.


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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> The second worse than Mubarak gov'ts ordered to crush down the protesters (tonight), ban fajr prayer, cut down electricity supply to the masjed and Salah'din was an insult to Egypt, they even arrested scholars. Did you know who did this all in 1925 in Turkey? Mustafa Ataturk. Either a civil war, kick out Gen Pissi or live under the kemalist ultra secularist dictatorship who destroyed Islam in Turkey, we don't want that in Egypt.



I would rather have a dictatorship that uses its security forces to control the population than a dictatorship that uses religion to maintain its rule. 

Notice, there's only one side who are talking about a civil war...

1. There have been no orders to crush protesters. If there were Rab3a would have been removed from day one. 
2. There has been no ban on Fajr prayers throughout the country except for the one mosque in Alexandria as it was a crime scene after several clashes and deaths.
3. Which Masjid? You do realise that you cant specifically target a buildings electricity supply form a power station right. Power is cut from entire districts.
4. Sala'din was a Kurdish slave who rose the ranks and hasn't been mentioned in all of this....
5. There are 'scholars' then there are scholars. 
6. The Turkey which you and your kin rave about as the model for the future was founded by Ataturk. If Erdogan releases a statement saying Turkey is an Islamic nation he would probably have a revolution on his plate.
7. Sisi is not going anywhere nor is Morsi returning. Your delusions are starting to make people sympathetic because of your sheer stupidity.
8. "Whoever worshipped Muhammad, then Muhammad is dead, but whoever worshipped Allah, then Allah is Alive and shall never die". Islam started with the prophet but it didnt end with him and Islam was in Egypt centuries before Morsi and will not end with his ousting nor did it come as a result of his election. Islam is not an ideology.
9. Your addition of the Manufiqeen and infidels is absolutely hilarious. Those so called infidels have the same right to voice their opinion or act as they wish in Egypt according to the law and the constitution which grants them the power to do so as they are by birth Egyptian citizens and so should be granted the rights that every other Egyptian is guaranteed to have. Their religious views should have no bearing on the matter. Plus who the hell told you this was a matter of religion?

Whats ironic is that the same laws that are being applied to Alnahda and Rab3a are those which Morsi and his cabinet forged and are constitutionally legal as the result of his actions.

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## hussain0216

Keep going muslim brotherhood, the muslims of the world are with you.

Do not give the fake state and fake military controlled stooges any legitimacy whatsoever, keep fighting


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## MooshMoosh

Freedom and Dignity, anti coup. Click CC for Sub.


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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> Freedom and Dignity, anti coup. Click CC for Sub.



official figures.
Republican Guard event: 51 dead.
Elemenassa event:70+ dead.

The role of media is highlighted clearly in this video but this begs the question, why were those killed in the events left to rot while organizers brought hoards of photographers to take pictures as they pleased? 

Why did the official FJP page post pictures of Syrian children killed by the Assad regime on their page?
Why the constant inflation of numbers(dead and protesters)? 
Why do they think those who supported the ouster of Morsi are being deceived when they themselves are subject to deception by their leadership?

Most importantly, shouldn't this be in Arabic or is the MB's target audience elsewhere?


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## MooshMoosh

@Frogman look. you heard what the interim said. The people shouldn't be afraid of the government, it is the government who should be afraid of the people. Did you know the country is divided, did you know both side have million followers and did you know the 2 followers can always end up fighting each other? Had you not heard what happened before the Algerian civil war started?? no one knows what will happen, give it a month since people had been outside since the coup, chanting 'million march to martyr' and the security forces/army committed massacre twice, they will do it again tonight (Aus time). It will lead to economic problem if more chaos that's why Gen Pissi wanted this to be stopped.

P.S don't believe officials or ministers when adding death tolls, witnesses is the best way. Also, you're an athiest so you don't look at trusted Islamic sources happening and you don't trust them.


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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> @Frogman look. you heard what the interim said. The people shouldn't be afraid of the government, it is the government who should be afraid of the people. Did you know the country is divided, did you know both side have million followers and did you know the 2 followers can always end up fighting each other? Had you not heard what happened before the Algerian civil war started?? no one knows what will happen, give it a month since people had been outside since the coup, chanting 'million march to martyr'.



Answer the questions...

Its been a month and Morsi hasn't returned. He will never return and while you wait and protest and shout and talk nonsense the numbers protesting are starting to dwindle (according to foreign journalists e.g Robert Fisk). Egypt isn't Algeria and what happened in Algeria isn't comparable to Egypt.

Its clear who has the majority backing, if it was the MB and Morsi then he would have been sitting pretty upon his throne. Talk of millions and numbers is pointless.



> P.S don't believe officials or ministers when adding death tolls, witnesses is the best way.



All bodies are transported from Rab3a field hospital to state morgues and hospitals. What do you think the state ambulances going in and out of Rab3a do. No one has provided any evidence to prove there was over 200 killed.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

MooshMoosh said:


> @Frogman look. you heard what the interim said. The people shouldn't be afraid of the government, it is the government who should be afraid of the people. Did you know the country is divided, did you know both side have million followers and did you know the 2 followers can always end up fighting each other? Had you not heard what happened before the Algerian civil war started?? no one knows what will happen, give it a month since people had been outside since the coup, chanting 'million march to martyr' and the security forces/army committed massacre twice, they will do it again tonight (Aus time). It will lead to economic problem if more chaos that's why Gen Pissi wanted this to be stopped.
> 
> P.S don't believe officials or ministers when adding death tolls, witnesses is the best way.


you live in an imaginary world keep saying that until you believe it but the fact is morsi is out and the brotherhood is very close to be completely destroyed and we will have a new constitution parliament president in months


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## Syrian Lion

*"Free Army" terrorists assassinate a Syrian student in Cairo 
*
Aug 01, 2013
Cairo, (SANA)- Three armed terrorists from the so-called "Free Syrian Army" assassinated a Syrian student inside his house in al-Maqtam area in the Egyptian capital Cairo.

The terrorists stabbed Wael Haitham Sheikh al-Ashra, 20 years old, three times, taking revenge against him because of his national stances in support of the homeland Syria.

Egyptian media outlets said the security forces arrested two of "the suspected" and that Director of Cairo Security Department, Osama al-Saghir, ordered for the arrestees to be referred to prosecution.

Sheikh al-Ashra was found lying dead on the floor of his bedroom with two stabs in the chest and another in his left side.

The killers were identified as Asan Marwan Naqash, Ammar Arafat and Mohammad Fuad.

The two arrested killers admitted to committing the crime with the participation of the fugitive. They also admitted to having participated in fighting within the ranks of the "Free Army".


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## hussain0216

Frogman said:


> Answer the questions...
> 
> Its been a month and Morsi hasn't returned. He will never return and while you wait and protest and shout and talk nonsense the numbers protesting are starting to dwindle (according to foreign journalists e.g Robert Fisk). Egypt isn't Algeria and what happened in Algeria isn't comparable to Egypt.
> 
> Its clear who has the majority backing, if it was the MB and Morsi then he would have been sitting pretty upon his throne. Talk of millions and numbers is pointless.
> 
> 
> 
> All bodies are transported from Rab3a field hospital to state morgues and hospitals. What do you think the state ambulances going in and out of Rab3a do. No one has provided any evidence to prove there was over 200 killed.



People cant protest indefinetly, people will need to get back to their families and jobs etc

But the protests will continue and every few months their will be massive ones, the fake regime in egypt will not get peace eithr within Egypt or from muslims around the world.


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## PeaceGen

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Gun battles and street fighting left at least four people dead and more than 200 injured as the anti-government insurrection called by Egypts opposition began to take hold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Cairo protesters torched the headquarters of the Muslim Brotherhood, the group to which President Mohamed Morsi swears allegiance. Demonstrators exchanged gunfire with guards inside the flaming building. Clerics have warned of civil war and activists are steeling themselves for further violence  yet nobody in Egypt appears to know quite what forces have now been unleashed.
> 
> Last nights deaths  which occurred south of Cairo in the towns of Beni Suef and Assiut  came as tens of thousands of protesters surrounded the palace of President Mohamed Morsi in the east of the capital. Meanwhile in Tahrir Square, the crucible of the 2011 revolt, an estimated 200,000 protesters gathered to chant for an end to Mr Morsis rule.
> 
> Many streets in Cairo were eerily calm as families stayed at home in anticipation of widespread chaos. Metalworkers, meanwhile, have seen a sharp increase in demand for home-made handguns.
> 
> *I dont want Egypt to be the next Iran, said 21-year-old Hussein Ahmad, among the sea of protesters outside Heliopolis Palace, Mr Morsis presidential seat. That is what the Muslim Brotherhood wants.
> *
> ................



Yea, apparently the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt made more of an effort to impose strict(er) islamic laws rather than address the economic issues that got Mubarak ousted in the first place. Now they pay the price.

I would have hoped the Egyptian military being able to oust and contain the Muslim brotherhood with less violence however, and continue to hope the Egyptian military will use less lethal force and more watercannons (maybe with a bit of pepper spray mixed in).


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## agentny17

The MB paraded orphans wearing or holding their shrouds, supplied to them by one of their "charity organizations", in Rabaa trying to move the Western countries by these pathetic pictures.


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## hussain0216

They have been made orphans by egypts kaffir military may God bless them, may they grow up and take their country back

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## Shapur Zol Aktaf

Ikhwan-al-gooz is preparing itself for a massive demonstration.


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## agentny17

*&#8220;The Army Is on the Edge&#8221;*

L.W.: Do you have to restore law and order?
M.E.B.: We have to restore law and order eventually. We are in a race against time. People are very angry. People are very angry with me because I am saying, "Let's take time, let's talk to them." The mood right now is, "Let's crush them, let's not talk to them." That would last for one week, and then they would come back. It would be a disaster everywhere, inside Egypt and outside Egypt. We need to get a long-range view based on restoring order and based on national consensus and reconciliation. I hope the Brotherhood understands that time is not on their side. *I'm holding the fort, but I can't hold it for very long.*

L.W.: Are you a single voice on this subject?
M.E.B.: No, I'm not a single voice at all. A lot of people understand that, *but we are not the majority.*

Mohamed ElBaradei interview: Egypt&rsquo;s vice president on Gen. Sisi, Mohamed Morsi, and the chaos in the streets. - Slate Magazine


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## hussain0216

agentny17 said:


> *&#8220;The Army Is on the Edge&#8221;*
> 
> L.W.: Do you have to restore law and order?
> M.E.B.: We have to restore law and order eventually. We are in a race against time. People are very angry. People are very angry with me because I am saying, "Let's take time, let's talk to them." The mood right now is, "Let's crush them, let's not talk to them." That would last for one week, and then they would come back. It would be a disaster everywhere, inside Egypt and outside Egypt. We need to get a long-range view based on restoring order and based on national consensus and reconciliation. I hope the Brotherhood understands that time is not on their side. *I'm holding the fort, but I can't hold it for very long.*
> 
> L.W.: Are you a single voice on this subject?
> M.E.B.: No, I'm not a single voice at all. A lot of people understand that, *but we are not the majority.*
> 
> Mohamed ElBaradei interview: Egypt&rsquo;s vice president on Gen. Sisi, Mohamed Morsi, and the chaos in the streets. - Slate Magazine



Let the kaffir egyptian military come, did the Muslims back away at Badr

Let them spill Muslim blood in Ramadan on the streets of Egypt

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## agentny17

hussain0216 said:


> Let the kaffir egyptian military come, did the Muslims back away at Badr
> 
> Let them spill Muslim blood in Ramadan on the streets of Egypt



Again, i am sorry for your loss!!


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## Frogman

agentny17 said:


> The MB paraded orphans wearing or holding their shrouds, supplied to them by one of their "charity organizations", in Rabaa trying to move the Western countries by these pathetic pictures.



I thought Jihad was only for those who had gone through puberty....... Then again the MB dont understand their own religion do they.



hussain0216 said:


> People cant protest indefinetly, people will need to get back to their families and jobs etc
> 
> But the protests will continue and every few months their will be massive ones, the fake regime in egypt will not get peace eithr within Egypt or from muslims around the world.

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## hussain0216

The egyptian military may have the U.S and Israel behind them but the Muslims of Egypt have their faith in God

They will not back down to the likes of you

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## Frogman

hussain0216 said:


> The egyptian military may have the U.S and Israel behind them but the Muslims of Egypt have their faith in God
> 
> They will not back down to the likes of you

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## hussain0216

Democracy in the Muslim world is more important than Egypt

The Muslim brotherhood is fighting for all of us

If they get rid of the haramiis in the egyptian military then Muslims have a chance to get rid of all the other corrupt monsrchs kings and autocrats 

This is why all those worthless SOB's were so happy the muslim brotherhood was overthrown
If they don't then it's another few decades trying to get rid of these kaffirs and trying to fix the Muslim world

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## Sedqal

hussain0216 said:


> Democracy in the Muslim world is more important than Egypt
> 
> The Muslim brotherhood is fighting for all of us
> 
> If they get rid of the haramiis in the egyptian military then Muslims have a chance to get rid of all the other corrupt monsrchs kings and autocrats
> 
> This is why all those worthless SOB's were so happy the muslim brotherhood was overthrown
> If they don't then it's another few decades trying to get rid of these kaffirs and trying to fix the Muslim world



Its an Egyptian issue dude why are you getting so worked up on it?


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## agentny17

*Amnesty International Press release *
*Egypt: Evidence points to torture carried out by Morsi supporters*

Evidence, including testimonies from survivors, indicates that supporters of deposed President Mohamed Morsi tortured individuals from a rival political camp, said Amnesty International. 
Anti-Morsi protesters told Amnesty International how they were captured, beaten, subjected to electric shocks or stabbed by individuals loyal to the former President. Since mass rival rallies began in late June, as of 28 July, eight bodies have arrived at the morgue in Cairo bearing signs of torture. At least five of these were found near areas where pro-Morsi sit-ins were being held. 
&#8220;Allegations that torture is being carried out by individuals are extremely serious and must be investigated as a matter of urgency,&#8221; said Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui, Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa at Amnesty International. 
&#8220;The apparent use of torture for reprisal attacks is unacceptable. People should not take the law into their own hands. Political leaders have a responsibility to condemn these criminal acts and call on their supporters to renounce such human rights abuses. The Egyptian government must not, however, use these crimes, carried out by few, as a pretext to collectively punish all pro-Morsi supporters or use excessive force to disperse their sit-ins.&#8221; 
Mastour Mohamed Sayed, 21, told Amnesty International he and a group of 20 others were attacked by a group of Morsi supporters near the pro-Morsi sit-in at Rabaa al-Adawiya on 5 July. His assailants wore balaclavas and some were armed with knives or machine guns. Some escaped but Mastour Mohamed Sayed and a few others were captured. 
&#8220;I felt terrorized by the guns pointed at me&#8230;They grabbed me...They called us &#8216;infidels&#8217;&#8230;.We were then driven to the sit-in&#8230; I was dragged on the ground. We were eventually held under a podium&#8230;I was beaten with bars, and given electric shocks. I lost consciousness a few times,&#8221; he told Amnesty International.
While he was detained, Mastour Mohamed Sayed said he believed he heard a woman detainee being sexually assaulted and beaten. 
&#8220;My hands were tied behind my back, and I was blindfolded, but I could see a bit from underneath the blindfold&#8230; I could hear the girl screaming when she was given electric shocks. I could also hear a woman ordering her to take off her clothes. At that stage, I said that this was haram (forbidden), and was hit on the head. I then saw two bearded men go into the room and heard the girl screaming more&#8230;&#8221;
Afterwards, Mastour Mohamed Sayed saw blood on the floor of the same room. He said his captors asked why he and other detainees supported General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi. He was allowed to leave the Rabaa al-Adawiya sit-in the following morning, but his identity card was not returned to him. 
Amnesty International has found that the capture and torture of suspected anti-Morsi protesters most frequently occurs during or in the immediate aftermath of violent clashes between the two camps. 
Karam Hassan, a 48-year-old resident of Giza, was abducted and taken to an unknown location by armed Muslim Brotherhood protesters on 2 July. It followed clashes between residents of Giza and Muslim Brotherhood protestors in Nahda Square. His body was discovered by his mother in Zenhom Morgue on 10 July. It was covered in bruises and had burn marks on the chest, back, arms and both legs. He had also been stabbed in the chest and had a fractured skull. 
Ahmed El Kelhy, Karam&#8217;s neighbour, who was with him when he was abducted said that armed Muslim Brotherhood supporters were shooting live rounds at the residents. He pointed at two bullet holes in buildings and a bullet-ridden pick-up truck. 
Hassan Sabry, aged 20, said that he was dragged by armed assailants into Oumran Garden, near the pro-Morsi protests at Cairo University . 
&#8220;They used plastic wires to handcuff me&#8230; They started to beat us with sticks all over the body. At least two of us were bleeding,&#8221; he said. He then watched a bloodied protester have his throat slit and another being stabbed to death.
&#8220;They then started to beat me on the head. I fell on the ground and pretended to be dead. I held my breath. They thought I died and held me and threw me to a place with the two bodies of the men killed.&#8221;
Shehab Eldeen Abdelrazek, 23, a journalist, was also dragged into a tent and beaten with wooden sticks on his head, back and legs in Rabaa Eladaweya Square on 3 July.
The Ministry of Interior said on 30 July that 11 bodies bearing signs of torture have been found since the outbreak of the crisis. A further 10 complaints regarding torture were made by survivors. 
The Egyptian campaign group &#8220;I am Against Torture&#8221; told Amnesty International that it had independently verified that 11 people have died following torture at the hands of Morsi supporters since the beginning the crisis. 
&#8220;Let&#8217;s be clear: capturing people because they hold different views and torturing them is a criminal act and those responsible must be held to account,&#8221; said Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui. 
Torture or other ill-treatment at the hands of security forces in Egypt has continued under successive governments. Police and security forces continue to torture or otherwise ill-treat detainees with total impunity.
Amnesty International | Egypt: Evidence points to torture carried out by Morsi supporters

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## hussain0216

Man its not an egpytian issue

The entire Muslim world has dirt poor leadership without any foresight, their won't be change in the Muslim world until we get rid of these regimes who serve only themselves

It's like a domino affect get rid of one set of haramiis and the others will fall

This is why the Saudi and other monarch and dictators hate this change and wanted the coup so they can keep the status quo

No change, no domino effect means the same dirt poor leadership of the Muslim world for decades


It's why it's essential that all Muslims who want change and for the Muslim world to rise will support the Muslim brotherhood

Regardless of ideology to send a clear message to all the useless autocrats in the Muslim world

Man its not an egpytian issue

The entire Muslim world has dirt poor leadership without any foresight, their won't be change in the Muslim world until we get rid of these regimes who serve only themselves

It's like a domino affect get rid of one set of haramiis and the others will fall

This is why the Saudi and other monarch and dictators hate this change and wanted the coup so they can keep the status quo

No change, no domino effect means the same dirt poor leadership of the Muslim world for decades


It's why it's essential that all Muslims who want change and for the Muslim world to rise will support the Muslim brotherhood

Regardless of ideology to send a clear message to all the useless autocrats in the Muslim world

Man its not an egpytian issue

The entire Muslim world has dirt poor leadership without any foresight, their won't be change in the Muslim world until we get rid of these regimes who serve only themselves

It's like a domino affect get rid of one set of haramiis and the others will fall

This is why the Saudi and other monarch and dictators hate this change and wanted the coup so they can keep the status quo

No change, no domino effect means the same dirt poor leadership of the Muslim world for decades


It's why it's essential that all Muslims who want change and for the Muslim world to rise will support the Muslim brotherhood

Regardless of ideology to send a clear message to all the useless autocrats in the Muslim world

Man its not an egpytian issue

The entire Muslim world has dirt poor leadership without any foresight, their won't be change in the Muslim world until we get rid of these regimes who serve only themselves

It's like a domino affect get rid of one set of haramiis and the others will fall

This is why the Saudi and other monarch and dictators hate this change and wanted the coup so they can keep the status quo

No change, no domino effect means the same dirt poor leadership of the Muslim world for decades


It's why it's essential that all Muslims who want change and for the Muslim world to rise will support the Muslim brotherhood

Regardless of ideology to send a clear message to all the useless autocrats in the Muslim world

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## Algeria

It has been confirmed that the numbers of June 30 protests against Mursi was 1.5 million max in Cairo, so nationally the number can't be more than 4 million. The 30 million number was 100% fabricated according to every specialist.
Many reports confirmed this:
[video]youtube.com/watch?v=iEfsd-D8c9Q[/video]
[video]youtube.com/watch?v=J5IadhVPvMs[/video]
If an election is held and Mursi allowed to run(which he will) he will win by a landslide. 
Thanks to Sisi for making Mursi the Mandilla of Arabs!

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## Frogman

Algeria said:


> It has been confirmed that the numbers of June 30 protests against Mursi was 1.5 million max in Cairo, so nationally the number can't be more than 4 million. The 30 million number was 100% fabricated according to every specialist.
> Many reports confirmed this:
> [video]youtube.com/watch?v=iEfsd-D8c9Q[/video]
> [video]youtube.com/watch?v=J5IadhVPvMs[/video]
> If an election is held and Mursi allowed to run(which he will) he will win by a landslide.
> Thanks to Sisi for making Mursi the Mandilla of Arabs!



So why did Aljazeera report 2 million protesters on the 25th of January 2011 in Tahrir sq. only. Why did they not show the maximum numbers Alnahda and Rab3a can take?

Considering Rab3a is a traffic junction and not a square it may be quite obvious who had the bigger crowds. If Morsi had the majority support he wouldn't be in the position he was put.

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## BLACKEAGLE

Aljazeera has lost allot of it's credibility over the last two years. As for me, I stopped watching it.

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## Algeria

Frogman said:


> If Morsi had the majority support he wouldn't be in the position he was put.


Then the solution is simple. Release him and hold presidential elections as soon as possible. Otherwise its a coup against the will of Egyptian people NOT democracy.
Also, you have to lift the ban on pro Mursi media.

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## Frogman

Algeria said:


> Then the solution is simple. Release him and hold presidential elections as soon as possible.



A referendum on presidential elections was touted many times before the coup. The presidency refused to have a referendum and threatened protesters publicly. The time for a referendum on Morsi staying or renewed presidential elections finished on the 3rd of July. He is also under investigation for crimes that predated his presidency and therefore cannot legally return to his position.



> Otherwise its a coup against the will of Egyptian people NOT democracy.



Morsi became illegitimate when he gave himself all legislative and judicial powers in the nation while at the same time ensuring he couldn't be prosecuted for the illegal constitutional decree by any state institution. No democratic nation would overlook this simply because said leader was elected.



> Also, you have to lift the ban on pro Mursi media.



Media which incited hatred and violence must remain closed.

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## Solomon2

Yzd Khalifa said:


> KSA aid package was announced nearly a year and something ago, I hardly think that Al-Sisi is a man who could be bribed, he's a man of honor.


Saudis are very good at bribery, even if that's not what it's called. People accept Saudi gifts before anything is asked of them with the expectation they will receive more if they continue to please Saudis. That's bribery enough, even if it isn't the kind of bribery that's illegal everywhere.

Or did you mean that as a "man of honor" he can thus be relied on to _stay_ bribed?


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## Algeria

Frogman said:


> A referendum on presidential elections was touted many times before the coup. The presidency refused to have a referendum and threatened protesters publicly. The time for a referendum on Morsi staying or renewed presidential elections finished on the 3rd of July. He is also under investigation for crimes that predated his presidency and therefore cannot legally return to his position.
> 
> 
> 
> Morsi became illegitimate when he gave himself all legislative and judicial powers in the nation while at the same time ensuring he couldn't be prosecuted for the illegal constitutional decree by any state institution. No democratic nation would overlook this simply because said leader was elected.
> 
> 
> 
> Media which incited hatred and violence must remain closed.


I thought you were confident the majority are against him? that way the crisis ends and no more Egyptian blood spilled no matter who wins. I simply am amazed how Egyptian liberal youth support the bloody crackdown on the majority of population! 
9 of the new government ministers are Mubarak regime guys! You know that security apparatus will not stop with the brotherhood but they will crush any kind of decent in the name of fighting terrorism like it was for the last 30 years! Wake Up!!

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## TheThreePashas

If the army were so confident they were in the right, Morsi would be a free man, free to run in the next election.

Instead they have him locked up and facing trial for the stupidest things. The Egyptian Army is corrupt as hell. They might as well bring Mubarek back, I mean, he was their guy after all right?

Oh wait, _the Army supports the revolution_!! Lol. What a joke. Morsi was the revolution you goons.


The list of possible, sane allies in the region for Turkey just dropped down 1.

-I can't stop editing this post because the topic angers me so much. Anti-Morsi Egyptians are behaving so immaturely right now. By their logic, it would be good if Egypt was invaded just so Morsi left. So short sighted. So backwards.

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## Solomon2

hussain0216 said:


> The entire Muslim world has dirt poor leadership without any foresight, their won't be change in the Muslim world until we get rid of these regimes who serve only themselves -


Yep, if anything goes wrong they blame Zionists like me and jail their political opponents, accusing them of being my servants! I am so powerful, I should have called myself Lord Voldemort, right?

The way around this, of course, is to openly and boldly be _pro_-Zionist, thus depriving the despots of the ammunition that you are _secretly_ in league with the Jews. Pro-Zionism has other advantages, like the assertion of truth, civil, and national rights. You might end up in jail like Sharansky but he did win out in the end.

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## Yzd Khalifa

I will take it as a compliment  


Solomon2 said:


> Saudis are very good at bribery, even if that's not what it's called. People accept Saudi gifts before anything is asked of them with the expectation they will receive more if they continue to please Saudis. That's bribery enough, even if it isn't the kind of bribery that's illegal everywhere.
> 
> Or did you mean that as a "man of honor" he can thus be relied on to _stay_ bribed?



Now let's be serious. Personally, I dealt with the Egyptian military even though my experience was limited, but I gained an insight into their mindsets. When it comes to Egypt, I could have seen their faces turning into black and blue. 

Unless you were relying on Foxnews when they reported that " We spoke to the Pentagon, and they told us the Saudis were very happy about the overthrow of Morsi " 

But, Maybe, Foxnews didn't know that the Saudi Ambassdor wasn't in DC during the day Morsi was ousted. He's the only person who speaks to them on such sensative issues like this.  

You may check out Egypt's WiKileaks files to see how nasty did the Generals act out when Bush wanted them to do ..... and .....

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## Algeria

TheThreePashas said:


> Instead they have him locked up and facing trial for the stupidest things.



They charged him with leaking information to Hamas!! It is a calculated message to Israel and USA, and so Kerry 2 days ago complemented the army for moving Egypt to democracy! 
If they win any future elections, the brotherhood should remove the deep state as a first priority.

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## Frogman

> I thought you were confident the majority are against him?



I am. If the MB were truly committed to building a democratic process they would participate in the transitional period and field a candidate in the upcoming presidential elections (after constitutional amendments and parliamentary elections) whether that candidate is Morsi or someone else depends on whether he is found guilty of criminal charges.



> that way the crisis ends and no more Egyptian blood spilled no matter who wins.



Morsi had the power to do so but didn't. His party is also exasperating things by seeking confrontation at every possible opportunity.




> I simply am amazed how Egyptian liberal youth support the bloody crackdown on the majority of population!



Islamist's are a sect and are not the majority. One of the reasons Morsi won was because he got the revolutionary vote due to who he was running against. Liberal youth are not in favour in any bloody crackdown nor do they call for such actions. The MB and its affiliates arent innocent. The military and the security forces arent innocent either. 



> 9 of the new government ministers are Mubarak regime guys!



Morsi's prime minister was from the former regime as were some of the other ministers.........



> You know that security apparatus will not stop with the brotherhood but they will crush any kind of decent in the name of fighting terrorism like it was for the last 30 years! Wake Up!!



So pretty much what the MB were going to do but without using religion as an excuse for such action.

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## TheThreePashas

Solomon2 said:


> Yep, if anything goes wrong they blame Zionists like me and jail their political opponents, accusing them of being my servants! I am so powerful, I should have called myself Lord Voldemort, right?
> 
> The way around this, of course, is to openly and boldly be _pro_-Zionist, thus depriving the despots of the ammunition that you are _secretly_ in league with the Jews. Pro-Zionism has other advantages, like the assertion of truth, civil, and national rights. You might end up in jail like Sharansky but he did win out in the end.



Haha, hey it used to work for Turkey. Being buds with Israel has its perks no doubt. 

I do agree with your assessment of blaming Jews. Arabs have themselves to blame for Israel ever becoming this strong in the first place. The Muslim world should stop blaming Israel for everything, because when it all comes down to it, they always quiet down and don't say anything to Israel's face.


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## Frogman

Algeria said:


> They charged him with leaking information to Hamas!! It is a calculated message to Israel and USA, and so Kerry 2 days ago complemented the army for moving Egypt to democracy!
> If they win any future elections, the brotherhood should remove the deep state as a first priority.



Wrong, he is being charged with the premeditated murder of conscripts, officers and inmates while escaping Wady Alnatroon prison in cooperation with Hamas (who had multiple prisoners there).

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## TheThreePashas

Frogman said:


> Wrong, he is being charged with the premeditated murder of conscripts, officers and inmates while escaping Wady Alnatroon prison in cooperation with Hamas (who had multiple prisoners there).



Did this now become a crime? Where was the charge when he was running for president?

You shameless cowards. What was he jailed for again? Belonging to the MB? Hmm...

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## Frogman

TheThreePashas said:


> Did this now become a crime? Where was the charge when he was running for president?
> 
> You shameless cowards. What was he jailed for again? Belonging to the MB? Hmm...



The matter was being investigated for over a year and the investigation of this matter was announced by a judge a few months before he was ousted. Are you saying the killing of guards and inmates is not a crime?

Why he was arrested and put in prison is irrelevant.

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## TheThreePashas

Frogman said:


> The matter was being investigated for over a year and the investigation of this matter was announced by a judge a few months before he was ousted. Are you saying the killing of guards and inmates is not a crime?
> 
> Why he was arrested and put in prison is irrelevant.



Okay well attacking the regime was completely the cool thing to do then right? So why are they picking out this incident _now?_ How many security forces died protecting the Mubarak regime? 

It's irrelevant????? It's totally relevant. The army is trying to portray this not as a coup, but as a forced early election right? So why imprison the leader you deposed then. He should be free to walk around and especially, free to run again.

Just for the record, I'm pro-liberal, not pro-Brotherhood. By the way.

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## Algeria

Frogman said:


> Wrong, he is being charged with the premeditated murder of conscripts, officers and inmates while escaping Wady Alnatroon prison in cooperation with Hamas (who had multiple prisoners there).


No its true. 
theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/26/egypt-morsi-investigation-hamas-collusion
Stop lying he did NOT escape from prison!! There is something called internet, 
he phoned authorities from the jail saying "I am staying here we don't run what should we do?".
It was aired on Al Jazeera a thousand times.
[video]youtube.com/watch?v=YuheG_0-Daw[/video]

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## Frogman

> Okay well attacking the regime was completely the cool thing to do then right? So why are they picking out this incident now? How many security forces died protecting the Mubarak regime?



I'm not really sure what your point is about attacking the regime, could you please elaborate.

I don't know the official figures for the amount of security personnel but it wasn't an insignificant number.

We all know why these charges are put to him now, however, that doesn't change the fact that he may have been involved in criminal activity.



> It's irrelevant????? It's totally relevant. The army is trying to portray this not as a coup, but as a forced early election right? So why imprison the leader you deposed then. He should be free to walk around and especially, free to run again.



Its mainly for security purposes I suspect. There's no going back, Morsi is done even the MB leadership know that. Hes being held for 15 days under investigation (which can be renewed every 15 days).



> Just for the record, I'm pro-liberal, not pro-Brotherhood. By the way.



You'd get the same answers from me either way.



Algeria said:


> No its true.
> theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/26/egypt-morsi-investigation-hamas-collusion
> Stop lying he did NOT escape from prison!! There is something called internet,
> he phoned authorities from the jail saying "I am staying here we don't run what should we do?".
> It was aired on Al Jazeera a thousand times.
> [video]youtube.com/watch?v=YuheG_0-Daw[/video]



Yes, collusion to what.....



> Morsi is under investigation for colluding with the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas, an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, during the 2011 uprising that toppled Mubarak. The charges allege that Morsi and other senior Muslim Brothers were rescued from jail during the revolution with Hamas's assistance, and then helped Hamas to attack Egyptian police facilities and murder policemen during the ousting of Mubarak. The Muslim Brotherhood says the fugitives left with the help of locals and that Hamas had no role in the uprising.



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/26/egypt-morsi-investigation-hamas-collusion

Learn to read. What he said after the escape is of no interest to me. Whether he is guilty or innocent also doesn't bother me.



> Earlier Friday, judicial authorities announced prosecutors are investigating allegations that Morsi conspired with the militant Palestinian Islamist organization Hamas in a 2011 prison break that freed him and about 30 other Muslim Brotherhood members amid the chaos of the Arab Spring uprising that toppled Hosni Mubarak.
> 
> The allegations also include murder and kidnapping in connection with the prison break northwest of Cairo, in which prosecutors say Hamas gunmen attacked the facility at the behest of Morsi and the Brotherhood, killing 14 guards.



http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-07-26/world/40864517_1_mohamed-morsi-muslim-brotherhood-cairo

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## TheThreePashas

Frogman said:


> (1)I'm not really sure what your point is about attacking the regime, could you please elaborate.
> I don't know the official figures for the amount of security personnel but it wasn't an insignificant number.
> 
> (2) We all know why these charges are put to him now, however, that doesn't change the fact that he may have been involved in criminal activity.
> (3) Its mainly for security purposes I suspect. There's no going back, Morsi is done even the MB leadership know that. Hes being held for 15 days under investigation (which can be renewed every 15 days).
> (4)You'd get the same answers from me either way.



(1) My point about attacking the regime is that many protesters and revolutionaries did the same yet obviously, they were not charged. Why morsi? Especially when he was breaking out of prison for such a BS charge.

(2) It doesn't change the fact he was involved in criminal activity maybe but the fact that the army, who was in control at the time of Morsi's election, clearly had no problem with his criminal activity beforehand. So if the army wasn't considering his actions against the law then, doing it now means he's been arrested purely because of politics.

(3) Surely him being held _for now_ is because of security reasons but I very much so doubt that he'll be free to go after the crisis is over. Yes, he's done as the MB leader. Obviously even if the MB re-emerges they will need a new, legitimate leader, not a deposed one.

(4) Good. I just want you to know I'm not saying anything out of support of the Brotherhood, more-so against the Army.

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## Frogman

> (1) My point about attacking the regime is that many protesters and revolutionaries did the same yet obviously, they were not charged. Why morsi? Especially when he was breaking out of prison for such a BS charge



Thousands were arrested and tortured by the secuirity forces and a portion of those were put to trail in military courts and subsequently jailed. The difference is that they acted out of self defence and their actions weren't premeditated. Whether the charge is BS or not is up to the judiciary and not me. I'm just clarifying what the charges are.



> (2) It doesn't change the fact he was involved in criminal activity maybe but the fact that the army, who was in control at the time of Morsi's election, clearly had no problem with his criminal activity beforehand. So if the army wasn't considering his actions against the law then, doing it now means he's been arrested purely because of politics.



Its a well known fact that he military and the MB struck a deal before presidential and parliamentary elections as the revolutionaries sought to confront them as a result of their actions and views while the MB brown nosed them. 



> (3) Surely him being held for now is because of security reasons but I very much so doubt that he'll be free to go after the crisis is over. Yes, he's done as the MB leader. Obviously even if the MB re-emerges they will need a new, legitimate leader, not a deposed one.



He's done for as Mubarak was. If Morsi is let go then surely Mubarak must be let go as they share similar charges. Morsi still has other charges on him which haven't been investigated yet, the same one that got Mubarak has been filed on him (negligence on the matter of killing protesters or something like that) .



> (4) Good. I just want you to know I'm not saying anything out of support of the Brotherhood, more-so against the Army.



Cool.

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## TheThreePashas

Frogman said:


> Thousands were arrested and tortured by the secuirity forces and a portion of those were put to trail in military courts and subsequently jailed. The difference is that they acted out of self defence and their actions weren't premeditated. Whether the charge is BS or not is up to the judiciary and not me. I'm just clarifying what the charges are.
> 
> 
> 
> Its a well known fact that he military and the MB struck a deal before presidential and parliamentary elections as the revolutionaries sought to confront them as a result of their actions and views while the MB brown nosed them.
> 
> 
> 
> He's done for as Mubarak was. If Morsi is let go then surely Mubarak must be let go as they share similar charges. Morsi still has other charges on him which haven't been investigated yet, the same one that got Mubarak has been filed on him (negligence on the matter of killing protesters or something like that) .
> 
> 
> 
> Cool.



Eh.. Letting Mubarak go is on a waaaay different scale.

# of people Morsi Neglected < # of people Mubarak ordered dead..
Morsi also, by your argument, put the Egyptian people through one year of suffering. Mubarak, decades.

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## Frogman

> Eh.. Letting Mubarak go is on a waaaay different scale.



I know and agree but if Morsi is released without due process (on phony charges or not) those who support the old regime will ask why Morsi received preferential treatment and that's something we don't want or need. I would much rather see him being found innocent on these charges than simply being released.



> # of people Morsi Neglected < # of people Mubarak ordered dead..



Morsi's hands are not free of blood.



> Morsi also, by your argument, put the Egyptian people through one year of suffering. Mubarak, decades.



Yet, he mustered a greater crowd against him in one year. Mubarak was smart enough not to try interfere in the nations religious and cultural fabric.


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## TheThreePashas

Frogman said:


> (1)I know and agree but if Morsi is released without due process (on phony charges or not) those who support the old regime will ask why Morsi received preferential treatment and that's something we don't want or need. I would much rather see him being found innocent on these charges than simply being released.
> 
> (2)Morsi's hands are not free of blood.
> 
> (3) Yet, he mustered a greater crowd against him in one year. Mubarak was smart enough not to try interfere in the nations religious and cultural fabric.



1. I couldn't agree more. Due process must go on but I think eventually he deserves to be released and honestly, it didn't seem like he was arrested by law enforcement like he should have but instead kidnapped by Al-Sissy.

2. ..True I guess. But to me, there's a difference between provoke the population against eachother and not being able to stop small amount of violence and directly ordering the secret police to kill people, firing at protesters, etc..

3. And this is what amazes me. I have no doubt that if you took the percentage of people against Morsi and against Mubarak during their respective downfalls, people were vastly more anti-Mubarak. People were also more afraid of Mubarak, keep that in mind. Morsi even at his height was never too powerful.

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## Frogman

> 1. I couldn't agree more. Due process must go on but I think eventually he deserves to be released and honestly, it didn't seem like he was arrested by law enforcement like he should have but instead kidnapped by Al-Sissy.



If he was truly kidnapped then the interim government/presidency wouldn't have allowed foreign delegations to visit him. I think letting him go and rearresting him wouldn't have been a bright idea since he would have joined his brothers in Rab3a and probably escelated the situation to something that would have been truly dangerous.



> 2. ..True I guess. But to me, there's a difference between provoke the population against eachother and not being able to stop small amount of violence and directly ordering the secret police to kill people, firing at protesters, etc..



The MB used its followers to attack a protest in front of the Ittahadia presidential palace. Using melee weapons and rudimentary firearms resulting in the death of five political activists, the Mb militia was supported by the police to clear the protest.



> 3. And this is what amazes me. I have no doubt that if you took the percentage of people against Morsi and against Mubarak during their respective downfalls, people were vastly more anti-Mubarak. People were also more afraid of Mubarak, keep that in mind. Morsi even at his height was never too powerful.



Everyone was behind him when he was elected but we soon saw what he actually was and what he was preoccupied with namely power.

This was my statement on FB the day of his election


> Good day for Egypt our first ever legitamitly elected President and the Egyptian people have chosen the option (Mohammed Morsy) who does not betray Egypts revoloution. Long live the Arab Republic of Egypt &#9829;



I was naive.


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## TheThreePashas

Frogman said:


> If he was truly kidnapped then the interim government/presidency wouldn't have allowed foreign delegations to visit him. I think letting him go and rearresting him wouldn't have been a bright idea since he would have joined his brothers in Rab3a and probably escelated the situation to something that would have been truly dangerous.
> 
> 
> 
> The MB used its followers to attack a protest in front of the Ittahadia presidential palace. Using melee weapons and rudimentary firearms resulting in the death of five political activists, the Mb militia was supported by the police to clear the protest.
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone was behind him when he was elected but we soon saw what he actually was and what he was preoccupied with namely power.
> 
> This was my statement on FB the day of his election
> 
> 
> I was naive.


Yeah they shouldn't have let him go and rearrested him because like you said, that could have escalated things. BUT. I don't think that letting the EU delegates visit him is a really indication he wasn't captured.. They still could have done things openly, without putting him into some secret hiding place. It's just an open suspension of Egyptian law

And yeah, I do agree that he was mainly occupied with going after power and a huge disappointment. Thats why I couldn't care less that he's gone, more so angry about the coup. I too was pretty optimistic about Morsi however, I think the Army could have done a better job forcing elections rather than just deposing him. Idk, it was too planned and too fake.

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## islamrules




----------



## islamrules

*Rabia Square from the sky *





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1395416294015207

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## Frogman

> BUT. I don't think that letting the EU delegates visit him is a really indication he wasn't captured.. They still could have done things openly, without putting him into some secret hiding place. It's just an open suspension of Egyptian law



Well, if his location is disclosed (in prison or specific military base) then protesters will move to that place to either raid it or protest in front of it and we certainly don't want a repeat of the Presidential Guard event. 



> . I too was pretty optimistic about Morsi however, I think the Army could have done a better job forcing elections rather than just deposing him. Idk, it was too planned and too fake.



The miltary was trying to hold national reconciliation talks for months (6 of em) between the presidency and the opposition. The presidency refused the talks (military would hold them but wouldn't interfere in them) and the opposition followed suit. Sisi also advised Morsi to call for a referendum three times before June. They gave a week for national reconciliation before the 30th and 48 hours (to call for elections not national reconciliation or constitutional amendments) after the 30th. Morsi had chances to avert this but he didn't.


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## MooshMoosh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XkhTX5LgbsE













https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-25BpL2R5rs
Brace yourself, conspiracy theorist is coming but this time Google map will share their view 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5IadhVPvMs
You call this big?! Dear Western medias, why did you focus on one side(anti) to deceive others? 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJiczMjlvu0
Now, are you going to kill them all General Pissi?

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## Frogman

> You call this big?!


 Do you even understand English or are you just ignoring the commentary.



> Brace yourself guys, conspiracy theorist is coming but this time Google map will be involved



So you're telling me the news agency which said that there were over 2 million protesters in Tahrir alone in 2011 now says it can only take up 800,000?

With that said do you think Rab3a and Alnahda even come close to the size of Tahrir or Elittahidia?
Why didnt Aljezeera do the same calculations for the pro-Morsi camp or were they afraid of something?

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

MooshMoosh said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XkhTX5LgbsE



*They said one thing very clearly, We never submitt to a bunch of junta sellouts even they kill 100s thousand of us..
we will die but we dont kill*. Sellouts have no future....Neither US, EU, Israel and GCCs could stop situationin in favor of Pissi..He will suffer the same fate of dicataor Mobarak..

Where are the fake owner of 30 millions signs??..Why they dont gather in Tahrir now??

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## Frogman

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> *They said one thing very clearly, We never submitt to a bunch of junta sellouts even they kill 100s thousand of us..
> we will die but we dont kill*. Sellouts have no future....Neither US, EU, Israel and GCCs could stop situationin in favor of Pissi..He will suffer the same fate of dicataor Mobarak..
> 
> Where are the fake owner of 30 millions signs??..Why they dont gather in Tahrir now??



Right, so these 11 people tortured and killed themselves did they? Egypt: Evidence points to torture carried out by Morsi supporters | Amnesty International

There's no reason to gather in Tahrir or any where else unless something major happens.

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Frogman said:


> Right, so these 11 people tortured and killed themselves did they? Egypt: Evidence points to torture carried out by Morsi supporters | Amnesty International
> 
> There's no reason to gather in Tahrir or any where else unless something major happens.



The media which The most resort to blackmails and slanders in the world is Pissi's junta media. 
Werent they health and interior ministers of Pissi said army didnt fire and The protestors suicided themselves at the night that 220 people were killed by Junta

It was just last week when Pissi called urgently his all supporters to gather in Tahrir. But despite all promotions distributed such as gift coupons, foods and bevareges only arround 20 K people could came in. Many of them were Baltaji thugs who killed hundrends civils so far. 

I think you may be son of an retired general who has 7-8 big buildings or has 40-50 apartments for rent in Cairo.

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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> *Right, so these 11 people tortured and killed themselves did they?* Egypt: Evidence points to torture carried out by Morsi supporters | Amnesty International
> 
> There's no reason to gather in Tahrir or any where else unless something major happens.


 So you're going to say "They denied the shooting, it was the pro supporters who use guns?"  I was watching three hours ago on Aljazeera, there was an hour doco program revealing every single camera shots circling soldiers and security forces using guns to shoot unnarmed pro civilians and circling how thugs backed by army were supporting the massacre. Also, there are hundreds of videos on YouTube and FB caught how pissi's thugs using weapons and civilians were shot in the head and chest. All of the exposure, peope already know the truth because Gen Pissi's puppet ministers lie too much. There are more than 200 civilians were killed, not 73 as your second Mubarak govt's claimed. 

Miskeen, I feel sorry for you how you believed the ministers payed by Gen Pissi to spread bullsh*it on the Western medias and the EU the US who supported the coup using everything to destroy the pro supporters image. Why do they never mentioned thugs were supporting the massacres? The 90+ rapes by thugs were one part by there are more. More importantly, they didn't mention how foreign journalist posted on twitter said MB supporters defended us from the thugs. Anyway, the quote of Gamaal Abdel Nassh*t you wrote on your profile explains everything who you are so it doesn't bother me.

Explanation - Last year Mubarak lovers thinking for coup, supported bloodshed and opposed democracy. Their dream came true.. CC included.





A emotional reminder...




I believe you Gen Pissi and ministers, we all believe you that you denied shooting *sarcasm*





Now, since there are "millionssss" of pro supporter protesters who do not fear death are still outside. Interim warned them so what they will do? Go ahead...

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## Yzd Khalifa

Why can't the MB calm down and hold a truce, at least during Ramadan .-.


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## hussain0216

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Why can't the MB calm down and hold a truce, at least during Ramadan .-.



Rubbish, if anything the holy month should inspire Muslims more to stand up for their rights and protest against the haramii liberals of Egypt who have stolen their country

You don't make deals with thieves

The idea that the Muslim brotherhood should deal with the worthless egyptian traitor military and partake in fake elections would just give legitimacy to a fake process

Egypt will be a nightmare to fix, the M.B should push the liberals and military to the end let them destroy themselves try to fix Egypt

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## Yzd Khalifa

This is yet remains to be seen  


hussain0216 said:


> Rubbish, if anything the holy month should inspire Muslims more to stand up for their rights and protest against the haramii liberals of Egypt who have stolen their country
> 
> You don't make deals with thieves
> 
> The idea that the Muslim brotherhood should deal with the worthless egyptian traitor military and partake in fake elections would just give legitimacy to a fake process
> 
> Egypt will be a nightmare to fix, the M.B should push the liberals and military to the end let them destroy themselves try to fix Egypt


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## Ceylal

hussain0216 said:


> Rubbish, if anything the holy month should *inspire Muslims more to stand up for their rights* and protest against the* haramii liberals *of Egypt who have stolen their country



Then you shouldn't complain...Egyptian and their army are serving the hot plate they deserve.



> You don't make* deals* with thieves



They are not cave in either...




> Egypt will be a nightmare *to fi*x, the M.B should push the liberals and military to the end let them destroy themselves try to fix Egypt



Is it a slip of the tongue?  You are betraying yourself there. That was the goal of the MB's when they were in power and that the reason they were ousted...


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## Ceylal

Algeria said:


> No its true.
> theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/26/egypt-morsi-investigation-hamas-collusion
> Stop lying he did NOT escape from prison!! There is something called internet,
> he phoned authorities from the jail saying "I am staying here we don't run what should we do?".
> It was aired on Al Jazeera a thousand times.
> [video]youtube.com/watch?v=YuheG_0-Daw[/video]



El Djazira! Wasn't this news outfit praising Morsi!


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## iranigirl2

*AIPAC opposes cuts in Egypt aid*



WASHINGTON (JTA) &#8212; The American Israel Public Affairs Committee urged the U.S. government not to cut assistance to Egypt. 

&#8220;We do not support cutting off all assistance to Egypt at this time, as we believe it could increase the instability in Egypt and undermine important U.S. interests and negatively impact our Israeli ally,&#8221; AIPAC said in a letter to Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), its top Republican. 

The letter is the first public signal since the army coup that deposed Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi in early July that AIPAC is actively opposing efforts to cut aid to Egypt. 

&#8220;As you know, Egypt is the largest Arab state in the Middle East and has played a vital role in advancing key U.S. interests in that region,&#8221; said the letter, read into the Senate record on Wednesday by Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), who was opposing an amendment proposed by Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) that would cut aid to Egypt because of the coup. 

&#8220;Citing just two examples, the government of Egypt has maintained the peace with Israel and is taking important steps to address the instability in the Sinai,&#8221; the letter said. &#8220;Events in Egypt are rapidly evolving, and we believe that for now the United States should avoid taking any precipitous actions against Egypt such as cutting off all assistance.&#8221; 

Paul&#8217;s amendment failed 86-13.


Read more: AIPAC opposes cuts in Egypt aid | Jewish Telegraphic Agency


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## Frogman

> The media which The most resort to blackmails and slanders in the world is Pissi's junta media.



So, you're still adamant on mocking peoples names I see.



> Werent they health and interior ministers of Pissi said army didnt fire and The protestors suicided themselves at the night that 220 people were killed by Junta



What in the hell are you talking about you moron. The military wasn't even involved in the Minassa events, the interior minister said the secuirity forces didnt use live fire but he lied (the interior ministry has been lieing for the past 30 years). The number of dead is over 70 people. Unless you or your buddy have solid proof that its otherwise I am in no way inclined to believe your claims. All fatalities and critical injuries are moved to state hospitals and morgues if required and theres no need to lower the numbers Egypt is used to people dieing.



> It was just last week when Pissi called urgently his all supporters to gather in Tahrir. But despite all promotions distributed such as gift coupons, foods and bevareges only arround 20 K people could came in.



Im not sure what events you were watching but I must say you have a knack for spouting nonsense. As for the gift coupons its a yearly occurrence and the military holds Ma'dit Elrahman all around Ramadan to feed those in need.

Those 20,000 filled a real lot of space in different governates and cities.







> Many of them were Baltaji thugs who killed hundrends civils so far.



So, how did those 11 die in Rab3a and Elnahada or are you and your buddies incapable of answering questions. Whats interesting is that day went on to the early hours of the morning incident free around the anti-Morsi protests, so that's your Baltaji theory gone. 



> I think you may be son of an retired general who has 7-8 big buildings or has 40-50 apartments for rent in Cairo.



Actually, I'm the son of an economic migrant. Don't make this personal.



> So you're going to say "They denied the shooting, it was the pro supporters who use guns?"



Look back at my comments and you would know my position on these events. I condemn both sides equally, no one is innocent in this but those who died when protesting peacefully. 

Also, can you answer my questions or are you incapable of having a debate with someone.



> I was watching three hours ago on Aljazeera, there was an hour doco program revealing every single camera shots circling soldiers and security forces using guns to shoot unnarmed pro civilians and circling how thugs backed by army were supporting the massacre. Also, there are hundreds of videos on YouTube and FB caught how pissi's thugs using weapons and civilians were shot in the head and chest.



So, why wasn't there a montage of the other side firing on security forces and families?

It happened, stop denying it. Just as the military killed innocent protesters (and not so innocent ones) some violent protesters killed and tortured people and there is evidence of this.



> All of the exposure, peope already know the truth because Gen Pissi's puppet ministers lie too much. There are more than 200 civilians were killed, not 73 as your second Mubarak govt's claimed.


 
Actually, the global media is using the official figures (everyone except Aljazeera) given by the Ministry of Health. If you have proof that over 200 died then provide it. 



> Miskeen, I feel sorry for you how you believed the ministers payed by Gen Pissi to spread bullsh*it on the Western medias and the EU the US who supported the coup using everything to destroy the pro supporters image.



Actually, state employees are paid their wages by the tax payer and not a military general. The MB needs no aid to help tarnish its own image its doing fine on its own. As for your American support, can you explain to me why Anne Patterson visited Khairat Alshater at his home when he wasn't part of the government or any state institution?

America follows its interests and doesn't take sides much like the military in Egypt. If Morsi had done well he wouldnt have been asked to step aside.



> Why do they never mentioned thugs were supporting the massacres? The 90+ rapes by thugs were one part by there are more.



Actually, there were cases of sexual harassment and attempted rapes but no actual rapes because of the protection provided my youth movements against this kind of behavior. Do you know that Egyptian society as a whole has a problem with sexual harassment or not?

Do you also know the MB's views on rape were rather crude i.e blaming it on the women for going certain places and wearing certain clothing. They also painted men as animals who are incapable of suppressing their sexual urges... Their views on such issues were retarded.

As foe thugs supporting the massacres, that may be true but have you considered if they were the families of that area or plain clothes coppers. By the way the Ikhwan tried to camp out at Salah Salim today and got trounced by the families who live there.



> More importantly, they didn't mention how foreign journalist posted on twitter said MB supporters defended us from the thugs.



Like they wouldn't be protected somewhere else...



> Anyway, the quote of Gamaal Abdel Nassh*t you wrote on your profile explains everything who you are so it doesn't bother me.



Without Gamal Abd Alnasser you and I would have probably still been farmers in Egypt ruled by a Turkish and British mandate. Being part of the commonwealth has its benefits though. 

This is the best description I can find for who you are....







> Now, since there are "millionssss" of pro supporter protesters who do not fear death are still outside. Interim warned them so what they will do? Go ahead...





> Explanation - Last year Mubarak lovers thinking for coup, supported bloodshed and opposed democracy. Their dream came true.. CC included.



Do you want me to get the video out where Morsi says the MB and himself wouldnt support a revolution against Mubarak or not?


Meanwhile in the rest of Egypt everything is going swimmingly and no one even care about whats happening in Rab3a anymore. Well done. Oh Yeah, the MB's leadership is in negotiations with you know who for their safe and prisonless exit.


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## Solomon2

Frogman said:


> Wrong, he is being charged with the premeditated murder of conscripts -


Turkey's Erdogan can't be happy about these charges. Erdogan knows he's vulnerable himself to similar charges for his role in the _Mavi Marmara_ affair. He doesn't want Turkish citizens or soldiers to be inspired by the Egyptian example. 

I don't know what influence Erdogan has, if any, in Egypt but I'd expect him to try to push hard to use it. The most obvious course of action would be Erdogan using his government's money to finance M-B demonstrators but I don't see him going that far. More likely is he'll use diplomatic and informal contacts to funnel monies from other sources to the M-B.


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## Frogman

> Turkey's Erdogan can't be happy about these charges. Erdogan knows he's vulnerable himself to similar charges for his role in the Mavi Marmara affair. He doesn't want Turkish citizens or soldiers to be inspired by the Egyptian example.



He's already quelled a mini military rebellion comprising of low ranking commissioned officers and generals by sending them to jail for conspiracy. Today, he reshuffled the military's top brass. He's on steady ground but that could change if the results of the next Turkish elections don't go so well.

Turkey appoints new military commanders - Europe - Al Jazeera English



> I don't know what influence Erdogan has, if any, in Egypt but I'd expect him to try to push hard to use it. The most obvious course of action would be Erdogan using his government's money to finance M-B demonstrators but I don't see him going that far. More likely is he'll use diplomatic and informal contacts to funnel monies from other sources to the M-B.



Erdogan has minimal effect in reality. All he's really capable of is alienating people and getting backhanded by Egypt's foreign minister. The MB are surrounded, no amount of money will help them. They have no choice but to make concessions and get involved in the transition.

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## Jihad_

iranigirl2 said:


> *AIPAC opposes cuts in Egypt aid*



American stooge El Bandito:


> ElBaradei to Washington Post: Israel has chance for 'real peace' with Egypt
> 
> Egypt's interim vice president expresses support for Kerry's efforts towards a two-state solution and says Israel has opportunity for normalized relations with post-Mubarak Egypt - if they change policy on Palestinians.

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## Frogman

Jihad_ said:


> American stooge El Bandito:




"if they change policy on Palestinians."

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## Yzd Khalifa

&#x202b;


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## kalu_miah

Egyptian liberal and secular Muslims hypocrisy has been exposed. They wanted democracy and remove Mubarak, but when democracy brought MB, liberal/secular Muslims, Mubarak supporters and copts wanted democracy no more and supported a coup to remove Morsi/MB. Now they want election without MB. And some countries from the region and outside are supporting this joke of a "democracy" Al-Sisi and El-Beradei style.

Sisi want to prosecute MB for killing 8 people, who will prosecute Sisi for killing more than 200 people?

I say let Sisi kill 10,000 and then lets see what happens.

I thank brothers from Turkey and Algeria for speaking out against this farce and joke that is going on in Egypt. Internal issues you say, if people of the world can speak out against butcher Assad, yes all the world has the right to speak out against this Egyptian joke led by Al-Sisi, the idiot.

And I am not a big fan of "political Islam" or MB, just a person that values "genuine" democracy, that includes everyone, and believes that only an inclusive and genuine democracy can take a society forward, not fake ones led by Al-Sisi, the general that came to power in a coup.

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## Jihad_

More anti-coup protests today.

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## islamrules




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## Frogman

islamrules said:


>



I'm guessing you've never heard of diplomatic visits. The man on the left was also a cordinator for the 'Kefaya' movement which opposed Hosny Mubarak which was founded in 2004. The same time the MB was poncing about in Egypt's parliaments and not calling for a revolution.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Frogman said:


> I'm guessing you've never heard of diplomatic visits.



What does Salamn have to do with this deposed douchebag  those Tamaroud folks made history

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## MooshMoosh

Jihad_ said:


> More anti-coup protests today.

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## MooshMoosh

notice how last week the puppet of Pissi's minister warned the protesters but now it went worse for the puppet govt's because they know they can't crush those numbers of pro supporters, they don't know what to do so they meet EU and US govt's to solve the crisis

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## Frogman

> notice how last week the puppet of Pissi's minister warned the protesters but now it went worse for the puppet govt's because they know they can't crush those numbers of pro supporters, they don't know what to do so they meet EU and US govt's to solve the crisis



Actually, its because Sisi doesn't want a giant clusterfuck (which you're wishing for). The MB leadership is also negotiating their safe and prisonless exit from Rab3a.

Mohamed Morsi's allies admit defeat and plot to fly him into exile 


Alastair Beach/Cairo/Monday 05 August 2013


Islamist allies of Mohamed Morsi are secretly discussing a face-saving deal in which the toppled President could be released from detention and allowed to officially &#8220;resign&#8221; his position, according to a source close to crisis talks currently taking place between opposing sides in Cairo.

Options being considered include allowing Mr Morsi &#8211; who has not been seen in public since being detained by the military a month ago &#8211; to announce his resignation in a televised address and formerly hand his executive powers to interim Prime Minister Hazem al-Beblawi. Another possibility is that Mr Morsi could be released and flown into exile, according to the source. &#8220;We&#8217;re hoping to find a dignified exit for him,&#8221; he added.

The news comes as Egypt&#8217;s most senior security body warned that negotiations to solve the current crisis were not open-ended. The National Defence Council, a group which includes interim President Adly Mansour and army chief General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, also said that a political settlement would not protect &#8220;law-breakers&#8221; from retribution &#8211; a thinly veiled threat to Islamists who have been accused by their opponents of inciting violence.

Over the weekend Gen al-Sisi used a newspaper interview to criticise both America and the EU for &#8220;turning their back&#8221; on Egyptians over the past month. &#8220;We really wonder,&#8221; he told The Washington Post, &#8220;[whether] the values of freedom and democracy [are] exclusively exercised in your countries, but other countries do not have the right to exercise the same values.&#8221;

His remarks were in response to a perception among many liberal Egyptians that the West does not comprehend the level of popular support which lay behind last month&#8217;s military coup. In a further escalation of tension, Egypt&#8217;s state news agency announced today that two senior members of the Muslim Brotherhood &#8211; Supreme Guide Mohamed Badie and his deputy Khairat al-Shater &#8211; would face trial later this month.

The development will anger Brotherhood negotiators who are seeking the release of detained Islamists as a kick-starter for any eventual settlement. Over the weekend they met with European and US envoys in a bid to hammer out a concessions package to end the standoff. If the negotiations break down, Western governments fear Egypt&#8217;s security services will try to clear the thousands of pro-Morsi protesters camped out in Cairo. Any operation would be a potential bloodbath.

Mr Morsi&#8217;s supporters are calling for the reinstatement of their ousted leader, a demand which remains the official position of the Muslim Brotherhood despite pro-Morsi negotiators saying in private that they recognise the political powers behind last month&#8217;s coup will never agree to his return.

&#8220;I think most people agree that it isn&#8217;t possible to bring Mr Morsi back,&#8221; said the source. &#8220;Anyway, how could he come back without the support of all the state institutions? With no judiciary, with no Interior Ministry or army?&#8221; An EU official, who asked to remain anonymous, told The Independent that Mr Morsi&#8217;s allies appeared willing to sacrifice the former President in return for a deal whereby arrested Brotherhood officials would be released from detention and allowed to return safely to their homes. Those officials would then be told to refrain from political activism.

&#8220;What we&#8217;re trying to do is to bring the moderates from both camps together,&#8221; said the official. &#8220;There seems to be a divide in both camps between moderates and hardliners.&#8221;

Looking over Egypt&#8217;s mutually hostile political camps, the divide often appears unbridgeable. Recent allegations of torture inside Muslim Brotherhood encampments &#8211; publicised in a Amnesty International report on Friday &#8211; have confirmed in the minds of many liberals that Islamists are not fit for power. Photographs of children being paraded in burial shrouds at a pro-Morsi protest have had a similar effect in convincing some Egyptians that the mass protests in eastern Cairo are little more than incubators of &#8220;terrorism&#8221;.

Mohamed Morsi's allies admit defeat and plot to fly him into exile - Africa - World - The Independent

Its over. Either you go down fighting (figuratively, hopefully) and fade or you participate in the transitional phase without the current brass of MB leadership. No matter how many people gather (which are decreasing day by day according to foreign journos) Morsi will not return.



Yzd Khalifa said:


> What does Salamn have to do with this deposed douchebag  those Tamaroud folks made history



It was on his world trip. He pretty much embarrassed us everywhere and came back. Tamarod have made history but they are falling into a trap by hugging the military (the same trap many fell into after 2011).


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## Yzd Khalifa

@Frogman


> It was on his world trip. He pretty much embarrassed us everywhere and came back.



I don't think Morsi represents 80 million people to embarrass them all =|



> Tamarod have made history but they are falling into a trap by hugging the military (the same trap many fell into after 2011).



I'm not a supporter of them, I didn't like what thy said after the removal of Morsi to be honest.


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## Frogman

> I don't think Morsi represents 80 million people to embarrass them all =|








He embarrassed us. I mean our previous military leaders didnt have the best academic education nor did they teach in American university's yet they had a much better grasp of the English language. Being the head of state and being this moronic reflects on all Egyptians. 



> I'm not a supporter of them, I didn't like what thy said after the removal of Morsi to be honest.



Neither did I but my position is still firmly on their side, however, after the transitional period they must be brought under civilian oversight (step by step) so they cant get involved in politics again (if there's a constitution with adequate checks and balances that is).

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## Yzd Khalifa

Hilarious  

But seriously bro, please don't be sensitive, I don't think Morsi was dumber than Ghadafi, Morsi is gone with all of his bads, just let go. 


Frogman said:


> He embarrassed us. I mean our previous military leaders didnt have the best academic education nor did they teach in American university's yet they had a much better grasp of the English language. Being the head of state and being this moronic reflects on all Egyptians.
> 
> Neither did I but my position is still firmly on their side, however, after the transitional period they must be brought under civilian oversight (step by step) so they cant get involved in politics again (if there's a constitution with adequate checks and balances that is).



I appreciate their efforts during the protests, but they must realize that if they are interested in the continuation of their political activities, then they have to join the civil Gov't, nothing less or more than that.


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## Frogman

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Hilarious
> 
> But seriously bro, please don't be sensitive, I don't think Morsi was dumber than Ghadafi, Morsi is gone with all of his bads, just let go.
> 
> 
> I appreciate their efforts during the protests, but they must realize that if they are interested in the continuation of their political activities, then they have to join the civil Gov't, nothing less or more than that.



I'm just laughing about it now. I'm not being sensitive, it was just hilarious and infuriating at the same time back then.


Morsi and his team didn't even bother looking up Wikipedia when visiting Pakistan. His speech was littered with mistakes (horrible mistakes).





Hopefully we can get out of this rut. Whats promising is that everything didn't go to crap like it did in 2011.


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## Jihad_

20 million + signatures, a fraud.



> This spring, I participated in the grass-roots &#8220;Tamarod&#8221; campaign organized to protest the government of Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi. My group, the April 6 Youth Movement, collected more than *2 million signatures* from people seeking to withdraw confidence in Morsi and calling for early presidential elections.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are, however, reasons for serious concern with the actions of the Egyptian military. Our support for the transitional road map to new elections was predicated on the military&#8217;s pledge that it would not interfere in Egypt&#8217;s political life. The expanding role of the military in the political process that we are nonetheless witnessing is disconcerting.
> 
> The escalation in hateful rhetoric in the media by liberals against Morsi supporters and by Morsi supporters against liberals also concerns me a great deal. Rhetoric that encourages the extermination of a whole political faction or calls for imprisonment of its members, regardless of their views, is wholly unacceptable. We refused to treat members of Mubarak&#8217;s regime this way after they were ousted from power. How can we support such treatment of the Brotherhood now?
> 
> Moreover, I cannot accept that, once again, the government is exerting control over the media on the pretext of the war on terror. Based on my previous experiences with the military &#8212; I was arrested and beaten for my activism in 2008 &#8212; I cannot help but fear that I may be accused of terrorism if I criticize the new regime.
> 
> No one can defend the mistakes committed by Morsi or the Brotherhood. But is it not my right to question, with great concern, the deaths of more than 100 Morsi supporters, many of them by bullets to the head and chest?
> 
> Despite my support for the June 30 revolutionary wave, and despite the fact that it was a people&#8217;s movement before it was a military intervention, I now see much to fear. I fear the insurrection against the principles of the Jan. 25 revolution, the continued trampling of human rights and the expansion of restrictive measures in the name of the war on terror &#8212; lest any opponent of the authorities be branded a terrorist.



In Muslim Brotherhood crackdown, Egyptian army harms rights - The Washington Post

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## Frogman

> 20 million + signatures, a fraud.









The idiocy.

If you could read you would know what the hell he was talking about.

"*My group, the April 6 Youth Movement, collected more than 2 million signatures from people seeking to withdraw confidence in Morsi and calling for early presidential elections.
*"

The April 6 Youth Movement gathered 2 million signatures among its members and the general public independently of Tamarod and that's whats stated here. The article makes no mention of the final number of signatures collected by the Tamarod movement as a whole.


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## MooshMoosh

lol, I just heard people saying Sissi rejected Interim puppet govts who wants to crush the supporters, he knows he can't kill his people because we are millions, childrens and womens staying outside and the only thing he fear is getting overthrowed by the army if that happens. That's why Pissi called the EU and US to help but everything is rejected by the democratic MB. 

Anyway, offering foodies 
















http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im4kKyEjMno&feature=c4-overview&list=UUjx9INQ8thN-m4WV8mlUguQ
all night every day like this.




The tents and food distributors being set up 




Meanwhile, on other side Alexandria. 
Mass demonstrations in Alexandria against the military coup - YouTube

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## MooshMoosh

Immature thugs in Tahrir talking about condoms and blabla...









and that's the uhmm "activist" or "tamarod" supporters right?





later, Mahmoud Shab3n managed to escape to the bright side 




receives a walm welcome..




Giving out speech about exposing the real face of the immature thugs in Tahrir (evil side)

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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> Immature thugs in Tahrir talking about condoms and blabla...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and that's the uhmm "activist" or "tamarod" supporters right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> later, Mahmoud Shab3n managed to escape to the bright side
> 
> 
> 
> 
> receives a walm welcome..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Giving out speech about exposing the real face of the immature thugs in Tahrir (evil side)



So you're offended when people or politicians make blanket statements about those who support Morsi but you do the same to those you oppose. Hypocrisy at its finest.

You make no mention of those who went into Rab3a and never returned as well. So does the death of those 11+ human beings mean nothing to you simply because they arent famous or support the same cause? At least he left with his life. Does the death of those people reflect the character of all pro-Morsi protesters, because if I used the same logic you did it would, and you as usual would be offended. He's a thoroughly unpleasant man but didn't deserve what happened to him. You've also failed to mention the wide condemnation from political groups etc.


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## MooshMoosh

Jihad_ said:


> 20 million + signatures, a fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> In Muslim Brotherhood crackdown, Egyptian army harms rights - The Washington Post



It had already been exposed. After the Westerners discovered the media double standard who pointed at one side which is the anti's, then there was ongoing Morsi supporting protest, they started to read more about it.




Click CC.

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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> It had already been exposed. After the Westerners discovered there was ongoing Morsi supporting protest, they started to read more about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click CC.



The crowds were still bigger than the politcal Islamist's could muster. Funny how Aljazeera didn't do the same analysis for Rab3a as the MB also has a habbit of over exaggerating its support. Rab3a and Alnahda are no where near as big as Tahrir and Alitahidiya or do you not know the streets of Cairo?

Whats also funny is that in 2011 this same news channel reported that Tahrir alone had over 2 million people in it, really funny isn't it. But I've already mentioned this yet you seem to ignore me every time and never answer my questions, why is that?

By the way no one has questioned the number of Tamarod signatures, just the numbers of protesters. Theres still a consensus that those who opposed Morsi outnumber those who supported him by far.

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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> The crowds were still bigger than the politcal Islamist's could muster.


Imagination, people think it's all beard and niqab women who supported Morsi but in reality, it's not. 



Frogman said:


> Whats also funny is that in 2011 this same news channel reported that Tahrir alone had over 2 million people in it, really funny isn't it. But I've already mentioned this yet you seem to ignore me every time and never answer my questions, why is that?


Nearly the majority of the Egyptians wanted Mubarak out, there was no coverage on who wanted him in power that's why the whole mainstream media aired it to prove the majority want him out. The 2013 coup protest is different; Egypt is divided, and Aljazeera, local, private and itself media networks did a good job pointing the perspective on both side. Western medias controls journalist and forced to focus on anti's so they can't say a word on their own POV so instead they post their views on social and blog sites and their POV is different than what the Western media says.


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## Frogman

> Imagination, people think it's all beard and niqab women who supported Morsi but in reality, it's not.



Actually that's the reality of things and there hasn't been a single source of news has reported otherwise even Aljazeera has conceded that the crowds that gathered to support Morsi were smaller. If you think people care about beards and niqabs either in the west or Egypt then you're mistaken. You're also mistaken in your thinking that these protests represent a wide spectrum of Egyptian people. Granted, you may have one or two Copts who joined (who you insist on demonizing) and some fake April 6th Movement members that you parade and two fake Ultra's Ahlawy that jump on stage to improve morale but you simply don't represent anyone other than those who support or are sympathetic to political Islam. Whether youre bearded in a niqab or clean shaven and have your hair free wont affect your politcal views. There Islamist's who don't wear a Hijab and are clean shaven.



> Nearly the majority of the Egyptians wanted Mubarak out, there was no coverage on who wanted him in power that's why the whole mainstream media aired it to prove the majority want him out.



No, the majority of the Egyptian public are A-political (hezb Alqanaba) and didn't protest. They were neither with Mubark nor against the revolution (which political Islamist's joined late) and so didn't hit the streets. The National Democratic Party at that time had over 3 million members yet they were oddly absent from the scene. If those members went out into the streets they would have outnumbered the revolutionaries but that didn't happen. Without any other crowds on the street there wasn't anything else to report except a small demonstration for Mubarak which fizzed out quickly.



> The 2013 coup protest is different; Egypt is divided, and Aljazeera, local, private and itself media networks did a good job pointing the perspective on both side.



No, Aljazeera did not do a good job. You may believe it did but that's because you agree with what its publishing and so you believe its neutral but it simply isn't. No news source within the Arab world and Egypt was neutral throughout the past month. The only sources that reported with neutrality were the foreign media/press.



> Western medias controls journalist and forced to focus on anti's so they can't say a word on their own POV so instead they post their views on social and blog sites and their POV is different than what the Western media says.



Have you been living under a rock?

There were plenty of foreign reports (and still are) from the POV of those in Rab3a. Name me one trusted news source that hasn't given the MB point of view, just one. The journalists opinion on the matter is a matter for him and not the paper. people have views which you may not agree with, get over it. Because you dont agree with someone doesnt instantly make them controlled or puppets or whatever drivel they tell you to say and feed your minds with.


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## bdslph

there are some thugs and terrorist in the protest but most MB is trying to do peacefully protest
all they can do just sit in 

the Egypt Military always controlled the country until now it is doing not a good sign


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Frogman said:


> Erdogan has minimal effect in reality. All he's really capable of is alienating people and getting backhanded by Egypt's foreign minister. The MB are surrounded, no amount of money will help them. They have no choice but to make concessions and get involved in the transition.



The side which frayed at the edges and remained without another alternative options but mass killing is Pissi and his junta staff. the bill turned wrong..Just look how USA and GCCs FMs and diplomats endeavor in non stop to concince MB in order to save Pissi junta team. but MB rejects all proposals....Bribed gen.Pissi know very well if he continue to kill severals hundreds more civilians he will be have to kill severals thousands, if he kill several thousands protestors he will be have to kill ten thousands more..Right now he have realized very well if he insist on killings he will be get drowned in the red blood of people just like the pharaoh had drowned in the Red sea.

I really wanted know how many times gen Pissi had to go to toilet when he read that news
no doubt some day Egypt too gonna to live same process.










Yzd Khalifa said:


> Why can't the MB calm down and hold a truce, at least during Ramadan .-.



If only you said why sellout junta of Pissi couldnt wait for next election and why other parties didnt prepare theirselves for next election by new attractive economic, social programms and claims to increase people support so that they could come in power through legal methods..

Or at least, you should have said why junta didnt calm down and cant postpone killing hundrends of innoceent citizens in holy Ramadan month .. This resistance is holy as much as helding ramadan. if ramadan cant be postponed then, risistance cant be postponed as well..

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## Frogman

> The side which frayed at the edges and remained without another alternative options but mass killing is Pissi and his junta staff. the bill turned wrong..Just look how USA and GCCs FMs and diplomats endeavor in non stop to concince MB in order to save Pissi junta team. but MB rejects all proposals....Bribed gen.Pissi know very well if he continue to kill severals hundreds more civilians he will be have to kill severals thousands, if he kill several thousands protestors he will be have to kill ten thousands more..Right now he have realized very well if he insist on killings he will be get drowned in the red blood of people just like the pharaoh had drowned in the Red sea.
> 
> I really wanted know how many times gen Pissi had to go to toilet when he read that news
> no doubt some day Egypt too gonna to live same process.



Erdogan may have reinvigorated Turkey's economy but he sure as hell didn't improve the level of education.



> The side which frayed at the edges and remained without another alternative options but mass killing is Pissi and his junta staff.



The military had no reason to confront the MB after the 30th of June and didn't. It is only after provocation by not so peaceful protesters and peaceful protesters in front of the Republican Guard officers club that resulted in the unfortunate killings, however, if the military was intent on committing massacres it would have done so on the very first day it ousted Morsi and we would be looking at thousands of casualties and not just over 120 (from the MB and its affiliates).



> the bill turned wrong..Just look how USA and GCCs FMs and diplomats endeavor in non stop to concince MB in order to save Pissi junta team.



Its the other way round. The interim government is surprisingly stable in such a tumultuous time and the path to elections and an amended constitution is on track. Its the leadership of the MB (who have already sold Morsi) who are negotiating their own prisonless exit from Rab3a and the possible exile of Morsi (to save face). Without concessions the MB has no option but to keep protesting which cannot last forever (people have lives and things to attend to) or continuously up the ante which will only further incriminate its leadership and alienate the majority of Egyptians.



> but MB rejects all proposals....Bribed gen.Pissi



Publicly yes but that still begs the question why the MB leadership are still willing to negotiate if they wont accept any proposals......

If the MB leadership were truly set on their principles (of Morsi's return) there would be no reason to negotiate and therefore no reason to allow mediators. The MB are in the weakest position they have to comply if they want to play politics again.



> Bribed gen



You're telling me the General Leader of the Armed Forces and the Minister of Defence and the Minister for Military Industry Gen/Abdulfattah Elsisi needs money....... Hes set for life already......

Theres no proof of him receiving any bribes or anything else. Any reports of such are just cases of shoddy journalism and ta3rees.



> know very well if he continue to kill severals hundreds more civilians he will be have to kill severals thousands, if he kill several thousands protestors he will be have to kill ten thousands more..



Is there a reason clashes are spread apart by several weeks or days, surely if this was a actual movement to eradicate the MB and its supporters the number of dead would be in the thousands, wouldn't it?

The only people who actually want a violent confrontation are those who talk of peace when they are the source of violence and religious corruption so they can get a better seat at the negotiating table.



> have realized very well if he insist on killings he will be get drowned in the red blood of people just like the pharaoh had drowned in the Red sea.



You sure love your fiction don't you. Did you know the majority of Pharaohs didn't rule with authoritarian decree? 

If we are to take the word of holy books as literal facts then Morsi was much more of a Pharaoh than Elsisi is...

1) Elsisi isnt the head of state. 2) Elsisi hasnt given himself absolute legislative power 3) One drowned himself because he wouldn't listen to his people (I will leave you to decide which one that is).



> I really wanted know how many times gen Pissi had to go to toilet when he read that news
> no doubt some day Egypt too gonna to live same process.



More like how many times did Erdogan have to convince himself he was still relevant on the international scale after Morsi was ousted and how he had to reshuffle top military brass quickly before they get ideas. Our process will come but it wont be as dickish.

Oh yeah... Stop writing the same old things in every single post its bloody boring and shows the level of politcal understanding you have. Plus stop ridiculing names I'm not sure why you and your Ikhwangy buddy insist on doing this but it shows how immature you are even though you may be in your 30's. Finally, as of yet I haven't seen a single convincing/intelligent argument on why Morsi should return or a valid politcal evaluation of the situation (both of which exist and I have seen). So really you are giving a pisspoor example of Islamist thinking.........

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## Yzd Khalifa

@Jamaal Yelmaaz 

There is no smoke without fire my friend. The MB had miserably failed to run Egypt during the year they were in power. 

1- Failure to form a coalition Gov't 

2- Failure to redraft the constitution. 

3- Failure to maintain law and order. 

4- Failure to restore foreign relations.

5- Failure to fulfill the 100-day pledge to fix the Egyptian economic status, locally and internationally. 

Is that enough? And now you are asking us why are we against them when they embrace violence over dialogue?


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## Jihad_

McCain calls ouster of Egyptian President Morsy a 'coup' - CNN.com



> "We have said we share the democratic aspirations and criticism of the Morsy government that led millions of Egyptians into the streets ... . We've also said that the circumstances of (Morsy's) removal was a coup," McCain told reporters in Cairo on Tuesday.

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## farag

If we set up another election and you lose, will you accept the will of the majority this time?
Just look at promursi guys IDs:
Jihad, Islamrules, al awlaki, 
plus that erdoganist fanboy who calls majority of Istanbul folks terrorists. @Jamaal Yelmaaz


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## Yzd Khalifa

Haven't you seen the pastries buffet?  


Frogman said:


>


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## Frogman

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Haven't you seen the pastries buffet?




Yeah, If I was in Egypt I would just go there for free pastry and some sugar cane juice


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## Ceylal

This two @ss losers forgot that the Egyptian street has spoken...
[video]http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/06/world/africa/egypt-unrest/index.html?iref=all[/video]

*???: ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???????? ?????? ???? ??? - CNNArabic.com*
Morsi and his adviser arrived in Turah Jail..

And this @sshole remnant from the Moubarak's shoeshiner brigade call for the murder of the MB's supporters..





Well, he calls the death of kul min yaz 3odj Misr..


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## Yzd Khalifa

Frogman said:


> Yeah, If I was in Egypt I would just go there for free pastry and some sugar cane juice



LoL If were in Egypt, I'd bang into the streets protesting against the MB.


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## Frogman

Yzd Khalifa said:


> LoL If were in Egypt, I'd bang into the streets protesting against the MB.



Its only really in Cairo but the media attention makes it look like the whole country is on fire. The rest of Egypt is actually pretty quiet and everything is going on as usual if not better than usual according to my family.


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## Frogman

Sisi's Year Abroad

What Egypt's most powerful man learned from the U.S. military. 

BY DAVID KENNER , GORDON LUBOLD | AUGUST 5, 2013 

In 2006, Professor Stephen Gerras hosted a Super Bowl party at his house for the foreign military officers who were taking his courses at the U.S. Army War College. As the Pittsburgh Steelers clobbered the Seattle Seahawks, Gerras kept one eye on a partygoer who wasn't paying much attention to the game -- Gen. Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, currently the most powerful man in Egypt.

"My mother had come to help with the food, and she's this almost 80-year-old Italian mother," Gerras said. "And he grabs her and gives her a tour of all the things in our house that are written in Arabic, and the religious significance of it. Nobody else that I've ever had has ever felt the need to do that."

Some officers use their year at the War College to relax a bit -- they have been plucked out of their military hierarchy, after all, and the senior generals who determine their professional advancement are absent. Gerras, who served as Sisi's faculty advisor and was his professor in three courses at the War College, said his former pupil was nothing like that. And it went far beyond one Super Bowl party: "He was smart, his English was very good, and he was very serious," said Gerras. "He would be the most serious [military fellow] that I've had." 

Sisi, who trained at the U.S. Army War College from 2005 to 2006, is the first Egyptian military chief to be trained by the United States rather than Russia. During his year in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, he took classes in strategic thinking, theory of war and strategy, national policy formulation, and -- in an ironic twist, given the position in which he now finds himself -- an elective on civil-military relations. However, there's little evidence that Sisi's studies have given Washington any influence over the Egyptian general: Though Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel repeatedly warned him against launching a coup and subsequently called on him to build an inclusive political system, Sisi not only deposed President Mohamed Morsy -- he went on to imprison top Muslim Brotherhood officials, while Egypt's security forces have opened fire on pro-Morsy demonstrators.

In an odd turn, Sisi has unleashed some of the harshest anti-U.S. rhetoric in decades from an Egyptian army chief. In an interview with the Washington Post published this weekend, he blasted the United States for not more fully supporting the July 3 military takeover: "You left the Egyptians, you turned your back on the Egyptians and they won't forget that," he said. "Now you want to continue turning your backs on Egyptians?" 

Despite such rhetorical broadsides, however, U.S. officials insist their communications channel through Sisi remains strong. According to one U.S. official with knowledge of the dialogue between President Barack Obama's administration and Sisi, the message they reiterate "is that we believe in a strong relationship, a strong Egypt."

However, the official added, the United States realizes how the situation on the ground could damage that relationship. "If things get out of hand [in Cairo], it's going to be very difficult for us."

Sisi told the Washington Post that he speaks with Hagel almost every day, and the U.S. official characterized the dialogue as blunt from both directions. "These conversations are all very direct, there is no dancing around the topic," the official said. "They listen, they really value the relationship, they want to engage us."

U.S. officials may have scored a minor victory by helping to convince Sisi to moderate his approach toward the large Islamist sit-ins near Cairo's Rabaa al-Adaweya mosque and in front of Cairo University. While Egypt's government authorized the police to take "all necessary measures" to break up the sit-ins and the security forces dropped leaflets on the sites claiming that protesters had been "brainwashed" by the Muslim Brotherhood, both Hagel and Assistant Secretary of State William Burns, who is in Cairo, have warned against the violence that breaking up the protests would surely bring. Sisi's angry comments about the United States came in the context of a question that reminded him U.S. officials were "very concerned" about his treatment of the sit-ins. 

Even if Americans did not gain any influence over Sisi during his year at the War College, some believed they caught a glimpse of an Islamist ideology that informed his political views. Professor Robert Springborg penned an article for Foreign Affairs arguing that a paper Sisi wrote that year "reads like a tract produced by the Muslim Brotherhood," emphasizing the centrality of religion to Middle Eastern politics and calling for the reestablishment of the caliphate. The New York Times, which also got its hands on the paper, was more cautious, saying that it was "more searching than dogmatic," though certainly critical of U.S. attempts to impose democracy in the region. 

Gerras remembers his student as a devout Muslim, with a deep knowledge of his faith and its symbols. Gerras's house is decorated with Ottoman-era trinkets picked up when he was living in Turkey -- he recalled that Sisi once excitedly stopped him after coming across a cheap brass imprint by his bathroom. "He said 'Steve, of course you know what this is. This is the door to the main mosque in Mecca," Gerras remembered. "Al-Sisi knew instantly, it was kind of like walking pass Da Vinci's 'The Last Supper.'" 

But though Sisi is unquestionably devout, there is so far little evidence that he is an Islamist. In his Washington Post interview, there was no suggestion he harbors sympathy for the Muslim Brotherhood: He blasted the movement, saying its culture "is to work secretly underground" and that Morsy "picked fights with almost all the state institutions" and paved the way for jihadists from Afghanistan to take their fight to the Sinai Peninsula.

The U.S. official suggested that one of the goals of American diplomacy was to convince the Egyptian military to reintegrate Islamists back into the political game. The official warned that the situation on the ground is "a tinder box," but that the Muslim Brotherhood remains "willing to assess overtures by the interim government" if its grievances are addressed.

Whether Sisi is willing to diverge from the Egyptian military's traditional approach of repressing Islamist movements, however, remains to be seen. Gerras remembered asking his student how the Egyptian military quashed a wave of Islamist terrorism in the late 1990s: "[His answer] was along the lines of 'We took care of it,'" Gerras said. "And I think what it meant was: We put people in prison." 

In 2006 and 2007, however, it wasn't Egyptian domestic politics that dominated conversations at the War College, but the ongoing U.S. war effort in Iraq. Gerras remembered long conversations with Sisi about what the U.S. military should do differently in Iraq, and how it could better understand foreign cultures.

"He'd say 'democracy is the right thing for the Middle East, but it's not going to look anything like what you guys think," Gerras said. "&#8216;And I don't think you guys understand that.'" 

Sisi's Year Abroad - By David Kenner and Gordon Lubold | Foreign Policy


So, I think its time for everyone talking rubbish about this man to stop.

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## agentny17

Frogman said:


> Its only really in Cairo but the media attention makes it look like the whole country is on fire. The rest of Egypt is actually pretty quiet and everything is going on as usual if not better than usual according to my family.


Because the Muslim Brotherhood moved all its members to Cairo to make it seem like the country is divided!! Even with that, they failed to gain any momentum!!


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## agentny17

Frogman said:


> Sisi's Year Abroad
> 
> What Egypt's most powerful man learned from the U.S. military.
> 
> BY DAVID KENNER , GORDON LUBOLD | AUGUST 5, 2013
> 
> In 2006, Professor Stephen Gerras hosted a Super Bowl party at his house for the foreign military officers who were taking his courses at the U.S. Army War College. As the Pittsburgh Steelers clobbered the Seattle Seahawks, Gerras kept one eye on a partygoer who wasn't paying much attention to the game -- Gen. Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, currently the most powerful man in Egypt.
> 
> "My mother had come to help with the food, and she's this almost 80-year-old Italian mother," Gerras said. "And he grabs her and gives her a tour of all the things in our house that are written in Arabic, and the religious significance of it. Nobody else that I've ever had has ever felt the need to do that."
> 
> Some officers use their year at the War College to relax a bit -- they have been plucked out of their military hierarchy, after all, and the senior generals who determine their professional advancement are absent. Gerras, who served as Sisi's faculty advisor and was his professor in three courses at the War College, said his former pupil was nothing like that. And it went far beyond one Super Bowl party: "He was smart, his English was very good, and he was very serious," said Gerras. "He would be the most serious [military fellow] that I've had."
> 
> Sisi, who trained at the U.S. Army War College from 2005 to 2006, is the first Egyptian military chief to be trained by the United States rather than Russia. During his year in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, he took classes in strategic thinking, theory of war and strategy, national policy formulation, and -- in an ironic twist, given the position in which he now finds himself -- an elective on civil-military relations. However, there's little evidence that Sisi's studies have given Washington any influence over the Egyptian general: Though Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel repeatedly warned him against launching a coup and subsequently called on him to build an inclusive political system, Sisi not only deposed President Mohamed Morsy -- he went on to imprison top Muslim Brotherhood officials, while Egypt's security forces have opened fire on pro-Morsy demonstrators.
> 
> In an odd turn, Sisi has unleashed some of the harshest anti-U.S. rhetoric in decades from an Egyptian army chief. In an interview with the Washington Post published this weekend, he blasted the United States for not more fully supporting the July 3 military takeover: "You left the Egyptians, you turned your back on the Egyptians and they won't forget that," he said. "Now you want to continue turning your backs on Egyptians?"
> 
> Despite such rhetorical broadsides, however, U.S. officials insist their communications channel through Sisi remains strong. According to one U.S. official with knowledge of the dialogue between President Barack Obama's administration and Sisi, the message they reiterate "is that we believe in a strong relationship, a strong Egypt."
> 
> However, the official added, the United States realizes how the situation on the ground could damage that relationship. "If things get out of hand [in Cairo], it's going to be very difficult for us."
> 
> Sisi told the Washington Post that he speaks with Hagel almost every day, and the U.S. official characterized the dialogue as blunt from both directions. "These conversations are all very direct, there is no dancing around the topic," the official said. "They listen, they really value the relationship, they want to engage us."
> 
> U.S. officials may have scored a minor victory by helping to convince Sisi to moderate his approach toward the large Islamist sit-ins near Cairo's Rabaa al-Adaweya mosque and in front of Cairo University. While Egypt's government authorized the police to take "all necessary measures" to break up the sit-ins and the security forces dropped leaflets on the sites claiming that protesters had been "brainwashed" by the Muslim Brotherhood, both Hagel and Assistant Secretary of State William Burns, who is in Cairo, have warned against the violence that breaking up the protests would surely bring. Sisi's angry comments about the United States came in the context of a question that reminded him U.S. officials were "very concerned" about his treatment of the sit-ins.
> 
> Even if Americans did not gain any influence over Sisi during his year at the War College, some believed they caught a glimpse of an Islamist ideology that informed his political views. Professor Robert Springborg penned an article for Foreign Affairs arguing that a paper Sisi wrote that year "reads like a tract produced by the Muslim Brotherhood," emphasizing the centrality of religion to Middle Eastern politics and calling for the reestablishment of the caliphate. The New York Times, which also got its hands on the paper, was more cautious, saying that it was "more searching than dogmatic," though certainly critical of U.S. attempts to impose democracy in the region.
> 
> Gerras remembers his student as a devout Muslim, with a deep knowledge of his faith and its symbols. Gerras's house is decorated with Ottoman-era trinkets picked up when he was living in Turkey -- he recalled that Sisi once excitedly stopped him after coming across a cheap brass imprint by his bathroom. "He said 'Steve, of course you know what this is. This is the door to the main mosque in Mecca," Gerras remembered. "Al-Sisi knew instantly, it was kind of like walking pass Da Vinci's 'The Last Supper.'"
> 
> But though Sisi is unquestionably devout, there is so far little evidence that he is an Islamist. In his Washington Post interview, there was no suggestion he harbors sympathy for the Muslim Brotherhood: He blasted the movement, saying its culture "is to work secretly underground" and that Morsy "picked fights with almost all the state institutions" and paved the way for jihadists from Afghanistan to take their fight to the Sinai Peninsula.
> 
> The U.S. official suggested that one of the goals of American diplomacy was to convince the Egyptian military to reintegrate Islamists back into the political game. The official warned that the situation on the ground is "a tinder box," but that the Muslim Brotherhood remains "willing to assess overtures by the interim government" if its grievances are addressed.
> 
> Whether Sisi is willing to diverge from the Egyptian military's traditional approach of repressing Islamist movements, however, remains to be seen. Gerras remembered asking his student how the Egyptian military quashed a wave of Islamist terrorism in the late 1990s: "[His answer] was along the lines of 'We took care of it,'" Gerras said. "And I think what it meant was: We put people in prison."
> 
> In 2006 and 2007, however, it wasn't Egyptian domestic politics that dominated conversations at the War College, but the ongoing U.S. war effort in Iraq. Gerras remembered long conversations with Sisi about what the U.S. military should do differently in Iraq, and how it could better understand foreign cultures.
> 
> "He'd say 'democracy is the right thing for the Middle East, but it's not going to look anything like what you guys think," Gerras said. "&#8216;And I don't think you guys understand that.'"
> 
> Sisi's Year Abroad - By David Kenner and Gordon Lubold | Foreign Policy
> 
> 
> So, I think its time for everyone talking rubbish about this man to stop.



A Great man and a great leader!! He only deserves to be praised!! Egypt was heading to a very dark road

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## Frogman

agentny17 said:


> Because the Muslim Brotherhood moved all its members to Cairo to make it seem like the country is divided!! Even with that, they failed to gain any momentum!!




Pretty much, but even when there are MB supporters (like my neighbours in my village) there aren't any confrontations and if there are they are usually isolated incidents rather than targeted attacks.

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## agentny17

Frogman said:


> Pretty much, but even when there are MB supporters (like my neighbours in my village) there aren't any confrontations and if there are they are usually isolated incidents rather than targeted attacks.


The biggest mistake Egyptian security forces made over the years was to exclude the people from the "war" against Islamists(terrorism), but these days are long gone!!


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## Frogman

agentny17 said:


> The biggest mistake Egyptian security forces made over the years was to exclude the people from the "war" against Islamists(terrorism), but these days are long gone!!



Dude, we cant face this problem using our security apparatus only. There's a problem in Egyptian society as a whole and if we don't address that properly we will be making the same mistakes the former regimes did including Morsi's regime. We must have an inclusive society and government.

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## agentny17

Frogman said:


> Dude, we cant face this problem using our security apparatus only. There's a problem in Egyptian society as a whole and if we don't address that properly we will be making the same mistakes the former regimes did including Morsi's regime. We must have an inclusive society and government.


I don't see how we can work together with Islamists to be honest with you!! Sharia can not be applied in Egypt especially the way they follow.


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## iranigirl2

*Free fuel shipments to Egypt from Saudi Arabia* 

The shipments are part of the $5 billion aid package pledged by Saudi Arabia for the new administration in Egypt following the army's ouster of president Mohamed Morsi on July 3. 


Egyptian Minister of Petroleum Sherif Ismail said Tuesday that Saudi Arabia has started sending petroleum products shipments as pledged earlier to help Egypt meet its increasing energy demands.

"We received the first fuel and diesel shipments early this month in accordance with an agreement between Egyptian General Petroleum Company and Saudi Ministry of Petroleum and the Saudi Arabian Oil Company (Aramco)," Ismail told Anadolu Agency.

The minister did not give further details, but asserted that the shipments would help cover the Egyptian market's energy needs.

The shipments are part of the $5 billion aid package pledged by Saudi Arabia for the new administration in Egypt following the army's ouster of president Mohamed Morsi on July 3.

This includes $2 billion in interest-free deposits, a $1 billion grant and $2 billion worth of oil products, including diesel, fuel and gasoline shipments to be sent over five months.

The oil-rich kingdom was one of first countries to welcome Morsi's ouster.

Kuwait and the UAE, which also welcomed the military's move, promised similar aid packages of money and fuel shipments.

"Undoubtedly, the shipments from Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, and Kuwait would help Egypt meet its increasing financial obligations regarding energy products imports," said the petroleum minister.

Egypt spends $600 million monthly on energy product imports to meet the increasing demands of the local market, which currently consumes about 500,000 tons of diesel and as much of fuel.


Free fuel shipments to Egypt from Saudi Arabia | Middle East | World Bulletin


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## MooshMoosh

Jihad_ said:


> McCain calls ouster of Egyptian President Morsy a 'coup' - CNN.com


I don't like McCain but this is the first step on restoration so he will be released soon otherwise, turmoil will contine. Anyway, Aug 6th.

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## MooshMoosh



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## MooshMoosh

(continued to p166)

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## Jihad_

Hundreds Die as Gaza Hospitals Face Fuel Shortage



> Hospitals in the Gaza Strip are facing a fuel shortage, which has severely affected their ability to treat patients. The fuel is needed to power the hospitals&#8217; generators.
> 
> The fuel shortage has caused almost 500 Palestinian deaths and hundreds more are at risk of dying if the generators cannot run.
> 
> The Egyptian army closed the Rafah crossing, Gaza&#8217;s only point of entrance or exit on the 3rd of July, leaving thousands of people stranded. Egypt has also prevented the transport of basic necessities into the Gaza Strip via tunnels over the past few months. Several of the tunnels were flooded by the Egyptian army in February.
> 
> The Gaza Strip has been under a land, aerial and naval blockade by the Israeli regime for six years following the election of Hamas, a Palestinian resistance movement, to govern the territory.

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## Solomon2

Wednesday, August 07, 2013
Pallywood training in Egypt as "protesters" pose for the cameras

This video is amazing.

It shows a Muslim Brotherhood "demonstration" in Egypt that was specifically staged to get the most dramatic poses, as the actors freeze their poses for the photographers. Injuries and even bloodstains are faked.






The actors and media are all complicit in the scam.

(h/t Ian)

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## Hussein

well maybe Egypt will increase their influence in cinema with these great actors

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## agentny17

Solomon2 said:


> Wednesday, August 07, 2013
> Pallywood training in Egypt as "protesters" pose for the cameras
> 
> This video is amazing.
> 
> It shows a Muslim Brotherhood "demonstration" in Egypt that was specifically staged to get the most dramatic poses, as the actors freeze their poses for the photographers. Injuries and even bloodstains are faked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The actors and media are all complicit in the scam.
> 
> (h/t Ian)



This is pathetic and disgusting, but seriously we don't expect less from these Islamists!!


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## Jihad_

Israeli army orders Eilat airport to close - Diplomacy & Defense - Israel News | Haaretz



> The Israel Defense Forces ordered the Eilat airport close operations Thursday evening.
> 
> Eight flights were expected to be rerouted.
> 
> Following the order, the Israel Defense Forces said in a statement that "civilian airports are managed in coordination with the Israel Air Force and Israel Airports Authority, in accordance with security assessments."
> 
> The closure came amid tension in nearby Egypt, where security forces claimed Wednesday that it had killed 60 militants in the lawless Sinai Peninsula in the month since the military overthrew Islamist President Mohammed Morsi.
> 
> Citing widening "terrorist operations" in "recent times", the army said it was conducting an intensified campaign in Sinai in coordination with the interior ministry to crack down on militants that "threaten Egyptian national security."
> 
> Militants based mainly in North Sinai near Israel's border have escalated attacks on security forces and other targets since July 3, when the army deposed Mursi and installed a new government.


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## MooshMoosh

Eid Mubarak, I will show Pro Morsi/Democrate Pictures and Videos. The real reason why America changed it to declare it's a coup, Sisi can't do action and why the media admited the protest is huge. 

Preparing for Eid + support for Morsi.

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## MooshMoosh



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## MooshMoosh



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## olcayto

@MooshMoosh

&#304;t seems that adeviye square is getting fuller and fuller everyday.

Thanks for the pictures mate. &#304;n the entire adeviye protests &#304; haven't seen one picture taken from a high point in the Dutch media.
&#304; thought they didn't had the means, but it seems they didn't do it on purpose. They were very keen to do this a tahrir square though.

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## MooshMoosh



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## MooshMoosh

Building blocks for protection




























Morsi posters in rides lol.

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## MooshMoosh

you can skip quarter to quarter, some scenes are funny.

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## MooshMoosh

warning: first video will hurt your eyes.


















Now Alexandria - will add them soon.






















I'll put in more decent video coverage and images later. Inshallah.

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## Syrian Lion

*MB terrorists, acting and staging a massacre to blame the Egyptian army of killing protesters to take pictures and send it to foreign media...*

rings a bell?


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## Jihad_

Syrian Lion said:


> *MB terrorists, acting and staging a massacre to blame the Egyptian army of killing protesters to take pictures and send it to foreign media...*
> 
> rings a bell?



Yeah seems staged by secularist thugs.


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## Frogman

> Eid Mubarak, I will show Pro Morsi/Democrate Pictures and Videos. The real reason why America changed it to declare it's a coup, Sisi can't do action and why the media admited the protest is huge.



Eid mubarak, dude.

The views of the American administration remain the same as senators McCain and Graham only represent themselves. They have been ridiculed within Egypt and in America. The protests are huge but still arent anywhere near those on the 30th of June and the 27th of July.

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## Syrian Lion

Jihad_ said:


> Yeah seems staged by secularist thugs.



watch the video, read the signs, listen to what they are saying... stupidity has no cure

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## Jihad_

Syrian Lion said:


> watch the video, read the signs, listen to what they are saying... stupidity has no cure



Yeah, because actors paid for by Sisi regime cannot stage such an event to discredit muslims. And to whitewash their massacres. Miraculously they found the full tape. Credible story, if you are gullible enough... As an Assad loyalist, shoudn't be to diffucult for you.


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## Syrian Lion

Jihad_ said:


> Yeah, because actors paid for by Sisi regime cannot stage such an event to discredit muslims. And to whitewash their massacres. Miraculously they found the full tape. Credible story, if you are gullible enough... As an Assad loyalist, shoudn't be to diffucult for you.



, they were taking pictures, so what if one of their friend video it, and then later take screenshots from the video?? isn't this a crazy analysis? Just like your crazy analysis, stop smoking man...

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## Jihad_

Syrian Lion said:


> , they were taking pictures, so what if one of their friend video it, and then later take screenshots from the video?? isn't this a crazy analysis? Just like your crazy analysis, stop smoking man...



Offcourse they take pictures in this psyop staged event. They follow the script from Sisi.


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## Syrian Lion

Jihad_ said:


> Offcourse they take pictures in this psyop staged event. They follow the script from Sisi.



and Sisi sunk the Titanic


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## Frogman

Jihad_ said:


> Offcourse they take pictures in this psyop staged event. They follow the script from Sisi.



So, if this video was supposed to be used as propaganda by the military why hasn't it received much attention by the Egyptian and foreign media?

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## Jihad_

Frogman said:


> So, if this video was supposed to be used as propaganda by the military why hasn't it received much attention by the Egyptian and foreign media?



It surely received the attention by the media, the army was looking for by releasing their staged event to them.


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## Frogman

*Egypt's Coptic Pope concerned over risks of attacks*

By John McManus BBC News 

A bishop in Egypt's Coptic Church says Pope Tawadros II has cancelled weekly public meetings due to concerns over possible attacks on his congregation.

Bishop Angaelos, who heads the Church in the UK, says in one incident the flag of al-Qaeda was raised on church property while worshippers hid inside.

Several human rights groups have criticised Egypt's authorities for failing to protect Christians.

Some Islamists say the Church backed the removal of President Morsi.

Two weeks ago Bishop Angaelos told the BBC that he didn't mind what kind of government led Egypt - even an Islamist one - as long as individual rights were respected and the country was able to flourish.

Now the bishop has revealed that the Church's leader, Pope Tawadros II, has cancelled some public events at St Mark's Cathedral in Cairo because of the worsening security situation.

Pope Tawadros is concerned about the risk of potential attacks on the Coptic congregation.

Egypt's Christians have long been a target for disaffected Islamists, many of whom now openly accuse the Church of playing a role in the recent removal of President Mohammed Morsi. 

When the chief of the army, General Abdul Fattah al-Sisi went on television to announce that President Morsi had been removed from power, Pope Tawadros and Ahmed Al-Tayeb, the Grand Sheikh of Al-Azhar, Cairo's ancient seat of Muslim learning, both made statements.

Pope Tawadros said that the "roadmap" mentioned by the general had been devised by honourable people, who had Egypt's best interests at heart.

Some Islamists took this as a sign that the Church had conspired in their leader's overthrow.

The events that Pope Tawadros has cancelled are thought to be Bible lectures, where he takes questions from the congregation gathered inside St Mark's Cathedral.

Recent incidents cited by Bishop Angaelos include an attack on a church which left the congregation cowering inside while the flag of al-Qaeda was raised on its premises.

He says homes and businesses have been razed to the ground and callers to TV shows have openly demanded the eradication of non-Muslims.

On Wednesday, 16 Egyptian human rights organisations denounced the government's failure to protect Copts, and said Muslim Brotherhood leaders were using hate speech to make political gains.

The groups said that the traditional method of stopping violent attacks by using mediation was not working.

They have called for an independent investigation into why Christians and their property are not being adequately protected by the security forces.

BBC News - Egypt's Coptic Pope concerned over risks of attacks



Jihad_ said:


> It surely received the attention by the media, the army was looking for by releasing their staged event to them.



It didn't receive much attention. It was done as a work of photographic art by those in Rab3a to in a way document what happened. The problems came from foreign media taking pictures from this piece (from the websites they posted it on) and publishing them as real injured and dead people. Basically, they were trying to do something artistic and thoughtful but it backfired.


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## Jihad_

Egyptian officials: Israeli drone strikes Sinai rocket-launching site, kills five 



> Drone strike reportedly in cooperation with Egyptian authorities; Palestinian news agency reports Israeli army ordered Eilat airport to close briefly Thursday after Egypt warned of terror attack.

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## ELTurco

*Writing in FT, Gül asks Morsi to be released in his roadmap*









9 August 2013 /TODAYSZAMAN.COM, &#304;STANBUL

Turkish President Abdullah Gül appealed to Egypt&#8217;s army-installed government on Friday to return the country swiftly to democratic rule and allow all parties to take part in the political process.


In an article published in the Financial Times, Gül urged the Egyptian authorities to release the detained former president, Islamist Mohamed Morsi, who was overthrown by the army last month, but stopped short of calling for his return to office.

The Turkish head of state, a member of the moderate Islamist Justice and Development Party (AK Party), also called on all sides to act with restraint and avoid violence.

&#8220;The Egyptian people have almost been split into two camps, each of which is rallying dangerously against the other. This situation is worrying and unsustainable,&#8221; he wrote.

Turkey is an important player in Middle East diplomacy and Gül was adding his voice to number of international calls along similar lines in the wake of Morsi&#8217;s overthrow.

Egypt&#8217;s interim government has promised its own transition plan, leading to new elections in nine months time. But what role Morsi&#8217;s Muslim Brotherhood would have in this, if any at all, is unclear. Most of its leaders have been jailed.

More than 300 people have been killed in political violence since Morsi&#8217;s overthrow and the security forces have threatened to dismantle two protest camps where his supporters are making a stand, raising concern that more lives will be lost.

Gül said Turkey had supported the 2011 uprising against strongman Hosni Mubarak and the election that brought Morsi to power.

&#8220;Unfortunately, the historic step towards democracy failed in less than two years. The coup that ousted Mohamed Morsi, Egypt&#8217;s first democratically elected president, was a clear derailment of the country&#8217;s progress,&#8221; he wrote.

His description of Morsi&#8217;s overthrow as a coup is likely to rile the Egyptian military, who say they were enforcing the will of the people as manifested in huge demonstrations against his rule, and do not seek to exercise power.

Gül said the problems should have been resolved through democratic means.

&#8220;At moments of peril, it is more important than ever to stick closely to the democratic path,&#8221; he said.

The present situation risked further polarization, he added.

&#8220;A quick return to democracy - which was the aim of the revolution - through an inclusive transition process, is of utmost importance.&#8221;

All political groups should be allowed to take part in elections. The release of Morsi and his fellow politicians would contribute to reconciliation and stability, he added.

Turkey is not without its own political troubles. Protests broke out in June against Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdo&#287;an, accused by his critics of becoming increasingly authoritarian, and have continued sporadically despite heavy police repression.

Erdo&#287;an accused Western governments of double standards for failing to condemn the events in Egypt as a military coup or the killing of Muslim Brotherhood demonstrators by security forces while criticizing Turkey for using tear gas against protesters.


Writing in FT, Gül asks Morsi to be released in his roadmap - Today's Zaman, your gateway to Turkish daily news

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## farag

ELTurco said:


> *Writing in FT, Gül asks Morsi to be released in his roadmap*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9 August 2013 /TODAYSZAMAN.COM, &#304;STANBUL
> 
> 
> Turkish President Abdullah Gül appealed to Egypt&#8217;s army-installed government on Friday to return the country swiftly to democratic rule and allow all parties to take part in the political process.
> 
> 
> In an article published in the Financial Times, Gül urged the Egyptian authorities to release the detained former president, Islamist Mohamed Morsi, who was overthrown by the army last month, but stopped short of calling for his return to office.
> 
> The Turkish head of state, a member of the moderate Islamist Justice and Development Party (AK Party), also called on all sides to act with restraint and avoid violence.
> 
> &#8220;The Egyptian people have almost been split into two camps, each of which is rallying dangerously against the other. This situation is worrying and unsustainable,&#8221; he wrote.
> 
> Turkey is an important player in Middle East diplomacy and Gül was adding his voice to number of international calls along similar lines in the wake of Morsi&#8217;s overthrow.
> 
> Egypt&#8217;s interim government has promised its own transition plan, leading to new elections in nine months time. But what role Morsi&#8217;s Muslim Brotherhood would have in this, if any at all, is unclear. Most of its leaders have been jailed.
> 
> More than 300 people have been killed in political violence since Morsi&#8217;s overthrow and the security forces have threatened to dismantle two protest camps where his supporters are making a stand, raising concern that more lives will be lost.
> 
> Gül said Turkey had supported the 2011 uprising against strongman Hosni Mubarak and the election that brought Morsi to power.
> 
> &#8220;Unfortunately, the historic step towards democracy failed in less than two years. The coup that ousted Mohamed Morsi, Egypt&#8217;s first democratically elected president, was a clear derailment of the country&#8217;s progress,&#8221; he wrote.
> 
> His description of Morsi&#8217;s overthrow as a coup is likely to rile the Egyptian military, who say they were enforcing the will of the people as manifested in huge demonstrations against his rule, and do not seek to exercise power.
> 
> Gül said the problems should have been resolved through democratic means.
> 
> &#8220;At moments of peril, it is more important than ever to stick closely to the democratic path,&#8221; he said.
> 
> The present situation risked further polarization, he added.
> 
> &#8220;A quick return to democracy - which was the aim of the revolution - through an inclusive transition process, is of utmost importance.&#8221;
> 
> All political groups should be allowed to take part in elections. The release of Morsi and his fellow politicians would contribute to reconciliation and stability, he added.
> 
> Turkey is not without its own political troubles. Protests broke out in June against Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdo&#287;an, accused by his critics of becoming increasingly authoritarian, and have continued sporadically despite heavy police repression.
> 
> Erdo&#287;an accused Western governments of double standards for failing to condemn the events in Egypt as a military coup or the killing of Muslim Brotherhood demonstrators by security forces while criticizing Turkey for using tear gas against protesters.
> 
> 
> Writing in FT, Gül asks Morsi to be released in his roadmap - Today's Zaman, your gateway to Turkish daily news



Gul should release all the detained protesters of gezzi park. Turkey should go back to the democratic process that includes all different groups.

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## ELTurco

@farag

there are no innocent detainees of gezi protest..

only couple hundred of anarchist people who are detained for using violence (throwing stones and molotovs at police) also vandalizing property.

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## Hussein

ELTurco said:


> @farag
> 
> there are no innocent detainees of gezi protest..
> 
> only couple hundred of anarchist people who are detained for using violence (throwing stones and molotovs at police) also vandalizing property.


you know , not everyone only reads the Erdogan propaganda machine 

why Islamists are always "good" to lie ?

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## ELTurco

@Hussein


do you want me to provide video footage of these vandalism or are you not interested in facts?


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## Falcon29

Jihad_ said:


> Egyptian officials: Israeli drone strikes Sinai rocket-launching site, kills five



It's absolutely true, even sources here close to the border confirmed it. The Egyptian military is denying it right now, but their full of crap. The sources came from them anyway.

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## Hussein

ELTurco said:


> @Hussein
> 
> 
> Okay, i am a brainwashed and a lair thanks
> 
> but do you want me to provide some video footage of these vandalizims or are you not interested in facts?


2013 protests in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> The overall number of protesters involved was reported to be at least 2.5 million by the Turkish Interior Ministry


2.5 millions vandalizisms 
man your country is soooooooooooo dangerous ... LOL


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## ELTurco

Hussein said:


> 2013 protests in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 2.5 millions vandalizisms
> man your country is soooooooooooo dangerous ... LOL



Not 2.5 million vandals just a couple of hundred people that misbehaved and were arrested..

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## olcayto

Hussein said:


> 2013 protests in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 2.5 millions vandalizisms
> man your country is soooooooooooo dangerous ... LOL


&#304;t's not that &#304; agree with Elturco but.
How can the number of 2,5 million be in context with what elturco said?
He said that the current jailed guys from the gezi protestst were the protesters that used violence in their demonstration.

You come with a useless comment of 2,5 million vandalizers. &#304;f there are currently 2,5 million gezi protesters jailed your right.
But if there are no 2,5 million jailed protesters' then you comment is as useless as you.

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## Frogman

> It's absolutely true, even sources here close to the border confirmed it. The Egyptian military is denying it right now, but their full of crap. The sources came from them anyway.



Everyone is using the same source, Ashraf Solaem.

He released a statement to the associated press that states the following News from The Associated Press

He then released a contradictory statement to Masrawy http://beta.masrawy.com/News/details/2013/8/9/40695/%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%AF%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B7%D9%8A%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1%D9%8A-%D9%81%D8%AC%D8%B1-%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%B9%D8%AF%D8%A9-%D8%B5%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%8A%D8%AE-%D8%A8%D8%B1%D9%81%D8%AD-%D9%88%D9%84%D9%8A%D8%B3-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B7%D9%8A%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A6%D9%8A%D9%84%D9%8A

This source isn't even in the Sinai.

The military has denied any Israeli strikes and has no reason to request any as it has fighter aircraft patrolling which can be used. The Egyptian military doesn't have a history with cooperating with Israel militarily nor will it.


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## VelocuR

Morsi supporters are unstoppable and General Sisi is like Netanyahu or Gaddafi, I think, he should leave immediately. 

Here's good explanation. 



> *The Middle East's newest strongman*
> By Emad Mekay
> 
> Aug 8, '13
> 
> BERKELEY - Before an ultimatum to attack an anti-coup sit-in earlier this week, Egypt's new strongman and coup leader General Abdel Fatah al-Sisi received one of his warmest endorsements ever - something that might have been torn right out of the steamy pages of the Arabian Nights.
> 
> A female secular columnist for the liberal, privately-owned daily al-Masry al-Youm wrote in support of his planned action, literally offering herself as "a sex slave". If this sounds like a typical example of how depraved Arab tyrants such as Saddam Hussein and Hafez al-Assad strengthened their iron grip on their countries on the shoulders of compliant media and elites, it is because it is.
> 
> *After all, this is the Middle East, where more than two years after the Arab Spring, the elite, military and local media remain the world's most skilled inventors of ruthless autocracies, from mad despots such as the deceased Colonel Muammar Gaddafi of Libya to brutal tribal monarchs such as the al-Saud royal family in Saudi Arabia and al-Nahian tribe in the United Arab Emirates. *
> 
> *It is through armies of similar cheerleaders who are willing to enslave and humiliate themselves that those rulers rise in tyranny and establish their unrivaled bloody hold on power. In Egypt, this is how pharaohs are made.
> 
> Hours after columnist Ghada Sherif offered her passionate physical backing, Sisi's troops launched an overnight assault on his opponents. By daybreak, at least 82 people had been killed and dozens more injured, with many receiving sniper bullets in the head and neck. *
> 
> *The "sex slave" episode also shows the great lengths Sisi's well-greased propaganda machine, backed by the treasures of the sprawling Egyptian military business complex and the riches of the country's elite, will go to to catapult the 58-year old Sisi, or Super-Sisi as his fans call him, as Egypt's savior and next leader.*
> 
> *Sisi is backed by Egypt's self-styled liberals, secularists and leaders of the Christian Orthodox minority who were routed and humiliated six consecutive times in fair and democratic elections at the hands of campaign-savvy Islamists during the country's two-and-half year brush with democracy.
> *
> For them, tanks, assault rifles and military brass have become the only burrow they could ever dig to get close to office. To that end, they are showing utter disregard of law, human rights and respect for democracy.
> 
> *As Sisi's forces were slaughtering dozens of people and injuring many more in their overnight attack outside the Rabaa Mosque in Cairo Saturday morning, Pope Tawadros, leader of the country's five million Christian Coptic minority, who detests Islamist parties, jubilantly tweeted: "Thank you to Egypt's great military and its wonderful police force, for opening the doors of hope."
> 
> Tawadros repeated "thank you" six times in his post.
> *
> And despite the bloodshed at the hands of Sisi's military and police, the state-run al-Ahram newspaper made splashing headlines of a report that one Egyptian man in the Red Sea city of Suez named his newborn child "Sisi".
> 
> So thirsty for legitimacy and public acceptance of their coup outside of their supporters, the top commander of Egypt's Third Army, who is supposedly busy fighting terrorism in Sinai, took time off to pay the parents a visit and hand them a reward for naming the new baby after the coup's leader's highly uncommon name. As expected, cameras were there to take pictures.
> 
> *The Facebook page of the Egyptian military's propaganda arm, the Morale Affairs, and other sympathetic Facebook pages widely believed to be run by intelligence officers entrusted with peddling Sisi to the public are lavishing pictures of tough, muscular and mustached officers in camouflaged uniforms, stamping a drooling kiss on portraits of Sisi. *
> 
> The image-building gets even more ridiculous with attempts to create unsubstantiated heroic tales for Sisi. A military Facebook page popular with Sisi's fans and other obedient newspapers claimed that the US Fifth Fleet was sent to Egypt's shores last week to intervene in the turmoil only to be sternly told off by "Sisi the brave".
> 
> *The Americans tucked their tails between their legs and left the Mediterranean after Sisi's thunderous warning, so the fable goes.
> 
> "Sisi threatened to annihilate the US Fleet," declared al-Nahar newspaper of the story. *
> 
> *The signs are unmistakable. Such folk tales were a hallmark of Gaddafi's 40-year rule, with his media inventing gallant military adventures for the consumption of gullible Libyans in a bid to legitimize his reign. *
> 
> Over the past month, Sisi had displayed other megalomaniac traits a la Gaddafi, the touchstone of despotic tyranny in the region, who had a penchant for full military uniforms, sunglasses and extravagant medals. Sisi gave his last speech in identical dark eye shades, a full ornamental cap and a chest full of colorful medals.
> 
> But more ominously are the signs of how Sisi is concentrating power for his rule. Egyptian prisons are filling up fast. Media outlets critical of the military are shuttered. Coup opponents face threats of confiscating their property and hurriedly cooked up criminal charges. Ousted president Mohammed Morsi himself was held incommunicado for nearly a month before far-fetched accusations of espionage for the Palestinian group, Hamas, were conjured up.
> 
> Editors from the privately owned pro-coup Shorouk newspapers banned articles by two writers, Wael Kandil and Ahmed Mansour, for questioning the coup leader's ability to bring stability to Egypt. One of them, Kandil, later quipped that the incident made Hosni Mubarak sound like an angel as none of his harsh columns were censored before.
> 
> Worse, General Sisi disbanded the elected Shura Council, revoked the constitution agreed upon by a whopping 64 percent vote in fair elections, and re-instated officers of the country's repressive secret police, the country's most hated and feared institution, who were fired after the January 25, 2011 uprising against Mubarak for human rights abuses.
> 
> *The secret police have powers to censor the media, screen applicants for government jobs, arrest opponents and hunt down dissidents with complete impunity.
> 
> Sisi's reach hasn't spared ordinary Egyptians either. Makeshift checkpoints manned by heavily armed joint police and military units pepper Egypt's streets, a scene not witnessed since the bloody era of Sisi's role-model, former Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser in the 1950s and 1960s.
> 
> Bearded men and women who choose the Islamic covering are stopped, arrested or abused based on their visible religious orientation. Those who are not visibly religious complain about the maltreatment at checkpoints and the return of non-optional bribes to traffic officers.
> *
> The rhetoric from the private media, owned by the country's wealthy elite classes and members of the minority Christian Coptic church who both support Sisi, routinely encourage crackdowns against opponents. Examples include urging Sisi to cut off water and electricity from opposition sit-ins, flooding the sit-ins with sewage, and calls to shoot at "just their legs", while all along showing fanatical devotion for their new Pharaoh, Sisi the Savior.
> 
> But nobody has yet matched Sherif's offer. "Sisi, all you have to do is just wink," the liberal writer titled her column.
> 
> "He is a man that Egyptians are infatuated with. If he wants to take four wives, then we are at his bidding. If he wants just a sex slave, by God, we'll not be hard to get either."
> 
> Emad Mekay is a John S Knight Journalism Fellow at Stanford University. He worked for The New York Times, Bloomberg News and Inter Press Service in the Middle East. He is the founder of America In Arabic News Agency. He covered most of the initial protests of the Arab Spring for The International Herald Tribune and for Inter Press Service.
> 
> (Inter Press Service)


----------



## Frogman

RaptorRX707 said:


> Morsi supporters are unstoppable and General Sisi is like Netanyahu or Gaddafi, I think, he should leave immediately.
> 
> Here's good explanation.



Wait, is that supposed to be journalism?

There are valid criticisms of the coup and Sisi but none of those were even hinted at.


----------



## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> Everyone is using the same source, Ashraf Solaem.
> 
> He released a statement to the associated press that states the following News from The Associated Press
> 
> He then released a contradictory statement to Masrawy http://beta.masrawy.com/News/details/2013/8/9/40695/%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%AF%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B7%D9%8A%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1%D9%8A-%D9%81%D8%AC%D8%B1-%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%B9%D8%AF%D8%A9-%D8%B5%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%8A%D8%AE-%D8%A8%D8%B1%D9%81%D8%AD-%D9%88%D9%84%D9%8A%D8%B3-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B7%D9%8A%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A6%D9%8A%D9%84%D9%8A
> 
> This source isn't even in the Sinai.
> 
> The military has denied any Israeli strikes and has no reason to request any as it has fighter aircraft patrolling which can be used. The Egyptian military doesn't have a history with cooperating with Israel militarily nor will it.



Bull, there were 5 different sources and Egypt definitely does and has cooperated with the Israeli military. 

The military denied it yet claimed they conducted the strike with their helicopters yet at the same time claim they went to check the scene were the explosions took place. It's closer to the Israeli border in which israel requested or in coordination with israel allowed israel to conduct the strike due to them believing it was an imminent threat to their country. 

They have been getting intelligence from israel and israel has been giving intelligence to them for a while and telling them to work in the Sinai. 

Quit lying dumbass, everyone knows this by now. You and your comrades in the Egyptian military sound really funny with their denials. They're full of $hit just as you are. 

There's truth to many things you say except when it comes down to military action against protesters and in the Sinai with israel.

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## Hussein

olcayto said:


> &#304;t's not that &#304; agree with Elturco but.
> How can the number of 2,5 million be in context with what elturco said?
> He said that the current jailed guys from the gezi protestst were the protesters that used violence in their demonstration.
> 
> You come with a useless comment of 2,5 million vandalizers. &#304;f there are currently 2,5 million gezi protesters jailed your right.
> But if there are no 2,5 million jailed protesters' then you comment is as useless as you.


well mr Erdogan fan boy
did i say 2.5 millions were arrested
maybe you can use your brain before commenting
a such big protest means something and summarize arrests wiht vandalizers oh yeah go on read your islamist papers

Turkey Protests Rage On: 1,700 Arrested


> Dozens have been injured and more than 1,700 people arrested in 235 demonstrations that have flared up in 67 cities across the vast nation.


Turkish police arrest 25 people for using social media to call for protest | World news | The Guardian


> Turkish police arrest 25 people for using social media to call for protest



you track people from social network to avoid protest, you arrest 1700 people and say "they are vandalizers"
MB sense of democracy. Tunisia, Egypt, Turkey, same cheat of Islamists.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

Hazzy997 said:


> It's absolutely true, even sources here close to the border confirmed it. The Egyptian military is denying it right now, but their full of crap. The sources came from them anyway.


who are you gazawi to insult Egyptian armed forces ? you are just sad you cant steal from Egypt any more


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## Frogman

> Bull, there were 5 different sources and Egypt definitely does and has cooperated with the Israeli military.



No, five different news sources published the story but the original source reported to the associated press. It's the same source.



> The military denied it yet claimed they conducted the strike with their helicopters yet at the same time claim they went to check the scene were the explosions took place. It's closer to the Israeli border in which israel requested or in coordination with israel allowed israel to conduct the strike due to them believing it was an imminent threat to their country.



Again, the only source for information is the official spokesman for the military and not FB sites or news sources quoting "military officials". The military said that two explosions had been reported and they were investigating the scene, in the same statement they said they would never allow a strike on Egyptian lands by a foreign nation. If the drone strike happened then that would be the first time that's ever happened.



> They have been getting intelligence from israel and israel has been giving intelligence to them for a while and telling them to work in the Sinai.



Intelligence cooperation is well known. but it doesn't go further than that.



> Quit lying dumbass, everyone knows this by now. You and your comrades in the Egyptian military sound really funny with their denials. They're full of $hit just as you are.



I haven't attacked attacked you personally so why would insult me?

If you have solid proof that this strike happened then provide it, if not then your accusations are meaningless.



> There's truth to many things you say except when it comes down to military action against protesters and in the Sinai with israel.



I have condemned the military's actions against peaceful protesters on the east bank and I don't support clearing the protests.
As for the Sinai then you are entitled to believe what you want but there's nothing to prove what you're saying.


Oh,yeah. There will no longer be discussions between us as you have breached the civility of debating and I no longer respect you. Peace.


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## kalu_miah

AP source:
Egyptian officials: Israeli drone strike kills 5 Islamic militants in Sinai Peninsula - The Washington Post

*Egyptian officials: Israeli drone strike kills 5 Islamic militants in Sinai Peninsula*






Ariel Schalit, File/Associated Press - FILE - In this March 7, 2007, file photo, the Israeli army Heron TP drone, also known locally as the Eitan, flies during a display at the Palmahim Air Force Base in Palmahim, Israel. Egyptian security officials said Friday, Aug. 9, 2013, an Israeli drone fired a missile in the northern Sinai peninsula, killing several suspected Islamic militants and destroying a rocket launcher.

By Associated Press, 
EL-ARISH, Egypt &#8212; An Israeli drone strike killed five suspected Islamic militants and destroyed a rocket launcher in Egypt&#8217;s largely lawless Sinai Peninsula on Friday, two senior Egyptian security officials said, describing a rare Israeli operation carried out in its Arab neighbor&#8217;s territory.

The attack came a day after Israel briefly closed its airport in the Red Sea resort of Eilat, close to the Sinai, in response to unspecified security warnings. Eilat was previously targeted by rocket fire from the Sinai.

Israel maintained official silence about the strike, suggesting that if the Jewish state was involved, it might be trying to avoid embarrassing the Egyptian military. An Egyptian military spokesman later denied the report but did not provide another cause for the explosion.

Egypt&#8217;s official MENA news agency said an explosion destroyed a rocket launcher set up near the border to launch attacks against Israel, and at least five Islamic militants were killed. But it did not elaborate.

Bodies of the slain militants were charred from the blast, an Egyptian official said. He said four of the dead appeared to belong to a family called el-Menaie whose members are wanted for several terrorism-related charges.

&#8220;Next to the bodies, there were rockets and a motorcycle that turned into pieces,&#8221; the official said. He spoke on condition of anonymity as he wasn&#8217;t authorized to speak to journalists.

A tribal leader in the area said that an Egyptian helicopter flew over the site a few minutes after the drone strike. The Egyptian security officials told The Associated Press that the drone had been flying near the site of the attack since early Friday on the Israeli side of the border and fired from there. Those on the Egyptian side of the border could hear the drone buzzing overhead for hours, they said.

The site of the strike sits some five kilometers (three miles) from the Israeli border.

An Israeli drone attack in the Sinai could signal a significant new level of security cooperation between the two former foes following a military coup that ousted Egypt&#8217;s president, Mohammed Morsi, last month. The military has alleged that Morsi and his Muslim Brotherhood movement had turned a blind eye to Islamic militants in the Sinai.

Meanwhile, Morsi&#8217;s ouster, which came after mass protests demanding he step down, has triggered a rise in attacks against security forces on the peninsula, raising fears that extremists could exploit Islamist anger to spread their insurgency.

The Egyptian security officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release the information, said the Israeli attack was launched in cooperation with Egyptian authorities despite past insistence that the government would not allow anyone to use its territories to launch attacks against ****** groups.

Israel has increased surveillance along the Egyptian border over the past two years, and is building a barrier along the 230-kilometer (150-mile) frontier to keep out militants and African migrants.

The Israeli military said only that it was looking into the report after being contacted by the AP.

Egyptian military spokesman Col. Ahmed Mohammed Ali initially said on his official Facebook page that security forces were investigating two explosions in el-Agra. He later issued a statement denying &#8220;in form and substance any attacks from the Israeli side inside Egyptian territories&#8221; and saying the claim of cooperation was &#8220;baseless.&#8221;

Egypt&#8217;s military and security forces have long been engaged in a battle against Islamic militants in the northern half of the peninsula. Militants and tribesmen also have been engaged in smuggling and other criminal activity in the area for years.

Under Morsi, Egypt&#8217;s military tried to launch a major military operation in the Sinai after suspected Islamic militants carried out a surprise ambush of Egyptian troops on the border with Israel and Gaza on last year, killing 16 soldiers. The militants drove into Israel in an apparent attempt to launch an attack there, though they were killed by Israeli airstrikes.

After the ambush, thousands of Egyptian troops backed by tanks and heavy equipment deployed to northern Sinai near the Israeli border. But not long, Egypt started to withdraw its forces &#8212; which were barred under its peace treaty with Israel. No reason was given at the time, though after Morsi&#8217;s ouster, several military officials said Morsi wanted to use former jihadis to negotiate for peace with those in Sinai.

Amid the political turmoil facing the nation in the more than two years since longtime autocratic leader Hosni Mubarak was ousted, Egypt has adhered to a 1979 peace deal with Israel.

But militants have fired rockets toward Eilat, a major destination for domestic and international tourists on Israel&#8217;s southern tip.

Israel briefly closed its airport there on Thursday, citing unspecified security concerns. An Egyptian security official told the AP that officials warned Israel about the possibility of rocket strikes. The official said Egyptian authorities received intelligence suggesting terrorist groups planned to fire missiles Friday at Israel, as well as at locations in northern Sinai and the Suez Canal.

___

Associated Press writer Mamdouh Thabit in Assuit, Egypt, contributed to this report.

Copyright 2013 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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## kalu_miah

Egypt Confirms, Then Denies Israeli Drone Strike in Sinai -- News from Antiwar.com
........
Apparently realizing just how bad the drone strike makes the junta look after insisting from the start that they would never allow foreign offensives on Egyptian soil, the nation&#8217;s army spokesman followed up on the confirmation with a statement backtracking on the entire situation, insisting that there was not only no coordination, but no strike at all, and only making reference to &#8220;explosions&#8221; in the Rafah region.

Israel&#8217;s military has refused comment on the matter, fueling speculation that their silence is an attempt to let Egypt get their story straight before going on record about what happened.

Egypt walks the wire in denying Israeli strike on Sinai | The Times of Israel

*Egypt walks the wire in denying Israeli strike on Sinai
Developments on Israel&#8217;s southern border may be encouraging, insofar as the Egyptians appear willing to target jihadists*
By AVI ISSACHAROFF August 10, 2013, 12:04 am





Egyptian army soldiers patrol in an armored vehicle, backed by a helicopter gunship, during a sweep through villages in the northern Sinai, Egypt, in May (photo credit: AP)

Contradicting earlier reports, the Egyptian army spokesman said late Friday that there was no truth to reports of an Israeli drone attack on Egyptian soil. He also claimed there was no coordination at all between Israeli and Egyptian authorities with regard to what he termed &#8220;explosions in the Rafah region.&#8221;

The circumstances surrounding the strike that occurred early Friday evening near Rafah in the northern Sinai Peninsula, in which (it appears) that five Islamic terrorists were killed, were not immediately clear. Particularly elusive were the facts regarding who perpetrated the strike. Initial reports published by the Palestinian Ma&#8217;an news agency and then later by AP cited Egyptian officials in El-Arish who said that an Israeli drone fired missiles at a storage site for long-range missiles. They said the strike took place near the Kerem Hashalom crossing, and in the triangle between the Israeli, Egyptian and Gazan border.

According to those reports, the five individuals killed belonged to one of the jihadist groups operating in the peninsula. Groups that concurrently target the Egyptian military and Israel.

Senior Israeli officials refused to confirm or deny any connection between the IDF and the strike. They only spoke in general terms about the continuing Egyptian campaign in the Sinai against al-Qaeda-linked terrorist organizations.

If there was an Israeli strike on Egyptian territory, it would signal the first time that Israel has operated (openly) there since the signing of the peace treaty between the two countries in 1979. However, in the hours following the purported strike, there was a concerted Egyptian effort to restore calm. Egyptian sources told AP that the strike was conducted in coordination between Tel Aviv and Cairo.

A senior Egyptian official who spoke to The Times of Israel insisted it wasn&#8217;t Israel that struck the Global Jihad cell. According to him, Egyptian military helicopters were responsible for the strike, as part of Egypt&#8217;s effort to prevent terrorists from firing at Israel.

*The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the incident was related to Egyptian warnings conveyed Thursday to Israel that led to the temporary closure of the Eilat airport. According to him, the strike was successful in neutralizing the very same cell that sought to attack Israel.

And then, just before 10 p.m. local time, came Egypt&#8217;s official denial of any Israeli strike on the Sinai.*

The Egyptian reassurances can be attributed also to a desire to restore calm in Cairo. Precisely as reports began leaking out about an alleged Israeli attack, tens of thousands of supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood were protesting across Egypt against the new government, and against the military&#8217;s involvement in politics.

It can be assumed that reports of an Israeli strike on sovereign Egyptian territory would not be useful to the military. On the Israeli side, it is evident that officials in recent days have sought to keep a low profile regarding security coordination between the two countries.

Either way, an examination of the events in the Sinai and in other arenas leads to several conclusions, some of them positive for Israel, others worrying.

Israel finds itself, on its southern and northern borders, facing a growing threat from organizations that have adopted al-Qaeda&#8217;s ideology.

The number of Global Jihadists in Syria is growing, and their influence is growing in relation to other opposition groups in the country. The emerging reality for Israel in the north is that the alternative to Syrian President Bashar Assad at this point seems to be worse than the status quo ante.

The relatively positive news comes from the Sinai. There may be a considerable effort among Global Jihadists to attack Israel from the area. However, these terrorists have in recent weeks been targeted for elimination by the Egyptian army.

According to Cairo, the military has been successful in killing some 60 jihadists, of the several hundred that are estimated to be present in the peninsula.

Egypt&#8217;s campaign in the Sinai includes 11 infantry battalions along with special forces, a tank battalion, and Egyptian air force and intelligence units.

The difference between the current situation and the days of &#8220;the friend,&#8221; deposed autocrat Hosni Mubarak, is that the real effort on the part of the Egyptians hasn&#8217;t stopped despite other difficult problems that the army is currently tackling.

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## kalu_miah

Hamas supplied Sinai terrorists with Iran-made Fajr-5 missiles for foiled attack on Eilat
Salafi jihadists claim that Israeli drones are operating over Sinai - The Long War Journal


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## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> No, five different news sources published the story but the original source reported to the associated press. It's the same source.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, the only source for information is the official spokesman for the military and not FB sites or news sources quoting "military officials". The military said that two explosions had been reported and they were investigating the scene, in the same statement they said they would never allow a strike on Egyptian lands by a foreign nation. If the drone strike happened then that would be the first time that's ever happened.
> 
> 
> 
> Intelligence cooperation is well known. but it doesn't go further than that.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't attacked attacked you personally so why would insult me?
> 
> If you have solid proof that this strike happened then provide it, if not then your accusations are meaningless.
> 
> 
> 
> I have condemned the military's actions against peaceful protesters on the east bank and I don't support clearing the protests.
> As for the Sinai then you are entitled to believe what you want but there's nothing to prove what you're saying.
> 
> 
> Oh,yeah. There will no longer be discussions between us as you have breached the civility of debating and I no longer respect you. Peace.



LOL, you idiot Israel has conducted helicopter raids in the same area before and this was confirmed when it happened. They've also killed your own soldiers and the Egyptian military was in rage that day and protests occurred near the Israeli embassy.

This also happened at the hands of israel with Egypt giving them intelligence. Some things are true some aren't. 

You asking for solid proof is just a diversion when you have no other way to prove its not true at all and resort to a childish game. 

Keep living in denial, I don't care if you don't respect me. Nobody here will respect you for denying this over and over again.

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## Falcon29

kalu_miah said:


> Hamas supplied Sinai terrorists with Iran-made Fajr-5 missiles for foiled attack on Eilat
> Salafi jihadists claim that Israeli drones are operating over Sinai - The Long War Journal



That's not true, Hamas can barely get Fajr rockets for themselves and resort to producing their own similar rocket. And they don't hand weapons that they need out to Sinai groups with little training.

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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> *Egypt's Coptic Pope concerned over risks of attacks*.


Only read the heading. He isn't really a pope. Giving Morsi a hard time by spreading propaganda and praised the massacres. Coptics lived under the Caliphate for thousand years and do they exist now? Yes. Only if you were a Muslim, you would understand how Coptics lived under Umar RA and so on... 

Defending church

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## hussain0216

The copts are central to this coup

They are risk to all the people in Egypt, the people should remember how conniving the copts have been and pay them back when the time comes

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## MooshMoosh



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## MooshMoosh



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## MooshMoosh

Algeria did like this for 9 months then ..... for ten years. Ya'rab get rid of the non elected govts or things will go worse.

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## MooshMoosh



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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> Only read the heading. He isn't really a pope, he is a piece of sh*t who praise the massacre. He is an attention seeker who spread propaganda. He need to get killed. Coptic Egyptians had lived under the Khilafah for thousand years after the Byzantium fell and handed the power to Umar RA and gave Amr to rule Egypt second under Umar then one Coptic got abused, Amr handed his son to Umar for a beating hand punishment then Coptic refused to beat him so he was forgived. The power continued until Fatimiya Dynasty, when Salah'din got rid of Fatimiyah murderers, it continued to rule under under the Caliphate, also one popular Coptic general (forgot his name) was the one who told Salah'din that Shias helped King Richard's army here secretly and he was the one who brought military equipments from Damascus. What happen to the Coptics now? they are still here enjoying life so nice try.
> Defending church



After Morsi being ousted: 

Egypt: Security forces abandon Coptic Christians during deadly attack in Luxor | Amnesty International

Copts-under-attack - Al-Ahram Weekly

There's more but you will have to look them up. e,g the priest who was shot dead in the Sinai.

Inciting violence against a man who you don't even understand for simply supporting the ousting of Morsi. Thats the problem with you, whoever is against your views or leaders is instantly a kafir or munafiq or a copt and deserves to be killed for their views. Your ignorance pains me.

stick to pictures.



> The copts are central to this coup
> 
> They are risk to all the people in Egypt, the people should remember how conniving the copts have been and pay them back when the time comes



"The Coptic word is in turn an adaptation of the Greek &#913;&#7984;&#947;&#973;&#960;&#964;&#953;&#959;&#962; Aigýptios "Egyptian" ultimately related to Caphtor.

The term is thus ultimately derived from the Greek designation of the native Egyptian population in Roman Egypt (as distinct from Greeks, Romans, Jews, etc.). After the Muslim conquest of Egypt, it became restricted to those Egyptians adhering to the Christian religion."

Spread your hatred of other religions and people elsewhere.



> LOL, you idiot Israel has conducted helicopter raids in the same area before and this was confirmed when it happened. They've also killed your own soldiers and the Egyptian military was in rage that day and protests occurred near the Israeli embassy.
> 
> This also happened at the hands of israel with Egypt giving them intelligence. Some things are true some aren't.
> 
> You asking for solid proof is just a diversion when you have no other way to prove its not true at all and resort to a childish game.
> 
> Keep living in denial, I don't care if you don't respect me. Nobody here will respect you for denying this over and over again.



Ok, presuming it happened. What now? whats changed? how is this significant?


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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> Ok, presuming it happened. What now? whats changed? how is this significant?


Man you listen every word coming out of lovers of Gen Pissi's mouth. You believe their denial on massacres, shooting, saying Pros have weapons but never mention antis, death tolls and denied IDF attack on Sinai, never mention thugs in Tahrir and all of it. How can you believe hypocricy?

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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> Man you listen every word coming out of lovers of Gen Pissi's mouth. You believe their denial on massacres, shooting, death tolls and denied IDF attack on Sinai etc



Do you even read my comments......

The massacres happened and I fully condemn the military and the security forces for their actions (for the millionth time).

The death tolls are accurate and neither you or those you support have provided any evidence that states differently. All fatalities were transported to state hospitals and then state morgues, the ministry of health has no reason to lie about the death toll either way the massacres happened.

News of this attack isn't clear. All news sources are using the Associated Press's report by Ashraf solaem who was expelled from the Sinai last year and released a contradictory report to Masrawy. Since there isn't any evidence other than a person who has no relations with the military and cites "military officials" as sources, I have every right to deny it. If solid evidence is provided then I will have no problem believing it. The picture you have provided is of an article which was already proven to be false.

Again, stick to pictures and videos.


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## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> After Morsi being ousted:
> 
> Egypt: Security forces abandon Coptic Christians during deadly attack in Luxor | Amnesty International
> 
> Copts-under-attack - Al-Ahram Weekly
> 
> There's more but you will have to look them up. e,g the priest who was shot dead in the Sinai.
> 
> Inciting violence against a man who you don't even understand for simply supporting the ousting of Morsi. Thats the problem with you, whoever is against your views or leaders is instantly a kafir or munafiq or a copt and deserves to be killed for their views. Your ignorance pains me.
> 
> stick to pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> "The Coptic word is in turn an adaptation of the Greek &#913;&#7984;&#947;&#973;&#960;&#964;&#953;&#959;&#962; Aigýptios "Egyptian" ultimately related to Caphtor.
> 
> The term is thus ultimately derived from the Greek designation of the native Egyptian population in Roman Egypt (as distinct from Greeks, Romans, Jews, etc.). After the Muslim conquest of Egypt, it became restricted to those Egyptians adhering to the Christian religion."
> 
> Spread your hatred of other religions and people elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, presuming it happened. What now? whats changed? how is this significant?



What's changed? It shows the new 'government of Egypt will protect Israeli citizens while it shoots Egyptians in the streets of Cairo. Is that the future of Egypt? 

The military has also given up the security of Egypt as their responsibility and job, it's now just there for political and corporate affairs. 

I see that as a huge problem.

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## Frogman

> What's changed? It shows the new 'government of Egypt will protect Israeli citizens while it shoots Egyptians in the streets of Cairo. Is that the future of Egypt?



So, nothing much has changed. No one wants to target Israeli citizens, the only legit targets are Israeli military bases or personnel. Using Grad missiles to indiscriminately kill is not going to solve the Palestinian-Israeli crisis. It will only serve Israel as they will appear to be vindicated in their actions against the Palestinian people. Cooperation to eradicate a threat to both nations may be advantageous but it doesn't change the fact that both nations see each other as enemies.

By the way, the relationship between Israel and Egypt improved under Morsi especially in the diplomatic and military channels.
I still believe that coordinated military action between both countries is stretching it a little. If theres solid proof of this strike then I have no problem believing it but with the way this is being reported and the continuous citation of "military sources" and contradictory reports of who carried out the strike leaves me suspicious (especially with the propaganda campaign going on in Egypt).



> The military has also have up the security if Egypt as their responsibility and job, it's now just there for political and corporate affairs.



The military is working on the security situation and is moderately successful in its job. You have to realise that the Egyptian military is primarily focused on conventional threats with only a small number of special forces trained in counter-terrorist operations.



> I see that as a huge problem.



As long as the Egyptian military doesn't lose sight of who the enemy is then I have nothing to worry about.


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## Ceylal

MooshMoosh said:


> Only read the heading. He isn't really a pope. Giving Morsi a hard time by spreading propaganda and praised the massacres. Coptics lived under the Caliphate for thousand years and do they exist now?* Yes. Only if you were a Muslim, you would understand how Coptics lived under Umar RA and so on... *



We didn't live Umar RA era, but we witnessed how the copts lived under Mubarek and Morsi. Not pretty!



Frogman said:


> As long as the Egyptian military doesn't lose sight of who the enemy is then I have nothing to worry about.


Sorry, not to agree with you, I think the Egyptian military was hand cuffed by Sadat, and the key was given to Israel.


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## kalu_miah

Hazzy997 said:


> That's not true, Hamas can barely get Fajr rockets for themselves and resort to producing their own similar rocket. And they don't hand weapons that they need out to Sinai groups with little training.



Thanks for the info, this Fajr-5 news item looks like Israel trying to make baseless propaganda attack against Hamas, taking advantage of this drone incident.

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## Frogman

> Sorry, not to agree with you, I think the Egyptian military was hand cuffed by Sadat, and the key was given to Israel.



The modern Egyptian military after Mohammed Ali Pasha has always been handcuffed. It was handcuffed under the monarchy and under militarily rule, the soviets weren't as cooperative as some believe. What has really handcuffed the Egyptian military is the sate of Egypt itself, without a powerful economy the Egyptian military has to rely on US aid as its primary source of procurement while generating cash independent of state funding to purchase weapons from other sources but never quite reaching parity with Israel. We have put ourselves in this position and not Sadat. We have put ourselves in this position. If there's one thing the Egyptian military can do though, its make do with what they have.

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## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> So, nothing much has changed. No one wants to target Israeli citizens, the only legit targets are Israeli military bases or personnel. Using Grad missiles to indiscriminately kill is not going to solve the Palestinian-Israeli crisis. It will only serve Israel as they will appear to be vindicated in their actions against the Palestinian people. Cooperation to eradicate a threat to both nations may be advantageous but it doesn't change the fact that both nations see each other as enemies.
> 
> By the way, the relationship between Israel and Egypt improved under Morsi especially in the diplomatic and military channels.
> I still believe that coordinated military action between both countries is stretching it a little. If theres solid proof of this strike then I have no problem believing it but with the way this is being reported and the continuous citation of "military sources" and contradictory reports of who carried out the strike leaves me suspicious (especially with the propaganda campaign going on in Egypt).
> 
> 
> 
> The military is working on the security situation and is moderately successful in its job. You have to realise that the Egyptian military is primarily focused on conventional threats with only a small number of special forces trained in counter-terrorist operations.
> 
> 
> 
> As long as the Egyptian military doesn't lose sight of who the enemy is then I have nothing to worry about.



No brought up the Palestinain cause and neither was it in their intent to advance the cause. And yes a lot has changed and I just gave a general specification to what the military exists for today. 

No the relationship didn't improve, what your mentioning are members in the Egyptian military command who don't rely on Morsi whatsoever on having channels to Israeli military sources. 

Who's this enemy you're speaking of? Do you really expect us to believe that today Egypt considers Israel an enemy state?

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## Frogman

Hazzy997 said:


> No brought up the Palestinain cause and neither was it in their intent to advance the cause. And yes a lot has changed and I just gave a general specification to what the military exists for today.
> 
> No the relationship didn't improve, what your mentioning are members in the Egyptian military command who don't rely on Morsi whatsoever on having channels to Israeli military sources.
> 
> Who's this enemy you're speaking of? Do you really expect us to believe that today Egypt considers Israel an enemy state?



Firstly, 

*Ya'alon: Sinai rumors will not affect peace with Egypt*

Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon addressed the attack in Egyptian Rafah Friday that was attributed to IDF, in which at least four jihadists were killed, and said: "The State of Israel respects the sovereignty of Egypt and is aware of the increased activity against terror in the Sinai Peninsula. We will not allow rumors and speculations, which have developed in the past 24 hours, to harm the peace treaty between the two countries." (Yoav Zitun)

Ya'alon: Sinai rumors will not affect peace with Egypt - Israel News, Ynetnews

Ya'alon: Israel respects Egypt's sovereignty | JPost | Israel News

That's over.

Actually it did. Regardless of military channels the diplomatic channels did improve after Morsi brought about the longest ceasefire yet and started the policy of tunnel demolition.



> Who's this enemy you're speaking of? Do you really expect us to believe that today Egypt considers Israel an enemy state?



Walk on the streets of Egypt and ask, listen to the TV in which both sides accuse Israel of conspiracy and view it as the enemy, look at why Egypt's request for F-15s was turned down, sit in military student lessons/lectures and see who's weaponry and tactics they are analysing...

It may come as a shock to you but Israel is still considered the enemy even if no one screams it at the top of their lungs and those who did seized power and did absolutely nothing about it.

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## Falcon29

No he didn't start the policy, the military proposed it after Israel demanded as a condition for the ceasefire even though they haven't respected a single condition they were supposed to apply to themselves regarding the ceasefire. They've already conducted an assassination like targeted killing, and since the beginning of the ceasefire didn't respect the border agreements regarding the fishing distance or the border fence agreements. 

Israeli minister will act on behalf of what his government tells him to say. Same with Egyptian spokesmen. They seem to have increased cooperation over the past few months. 

The funeral occurred for the members today and the scene has been inspected yet the Egyptian military offered no conclusion to the cause of the explosion besides denying Israel had been involved. 

Israel is considered an enemy by every day general Egyptians, as for people holding high positions in the military some have other interests. Egypt doesn't really prepare for a scenario with Israel and they seem like they can't make up their mind over Sinai, whether to end the peace accords and take control of their territory or to let it happen both ways and let Israel exploit and exercise it's rights it can exploit in the future as well.

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## Frogman

> No he didn't start the policy, the military proposed it after Israel demanded as a condition for the ceasefire even though they haven't respected a single condition they were supposed to apply to themselves regarding the ceasefire.



Who signed on the dotted line and thus gave the green light? 



> They've already conducted an assassination like targeted killing, and since the beginning of the ceasefire didn't respect the border agreements regarding the fishing distance or the border fence agreements.



In reality the ceasefire wasn't adhered to by either side.



> Israeli minister will act on behalf of what his government tells him to say. Same with Egyptian spokesmen. They seem to have increased cooperation over the past few months.



Again, if you have evidence provide it, if you don't have evidence then you have no leg to stand on. Cooperation may have increased but that's due to security operations in the Sinai and nothing else.



> The funeral occurred for the members today and the scene has been inspected yet the Egyptian military offered no conclusion to the cause of the explosion besides denying Israel had been involved.



A statement will probably be released later today. 



> Egypt is considered an enemy by every general Egyptians, as for people holding high positions in the military some have other interests. Egypt doesn't really prepare for a scenario with Israel and they seem like they can't make up their mind over Sinai, whether to end the peace accords and take control of their territory or to let it happen both ways and let Israel exploit and exercise it's rights it can exploit in the future as well.



Merkava mocks used to familiarize tank crews and anti-tank teams with its features. There's more but I'm not in the mood to slave through forums to find pictures.


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## Falcon29

He had no other choice due to increased pressure from the military.

The ceasfire is complicated and I won't get into it right now. 

Merkava mock ups don't prove much. And I doubt another statement will be released unless there is still speculation and interest. But, you slowly have come to realize it's better to admit the reality between the two nations that you first denied. 

And tomorow you'll admit more.

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## Frogman

> But, you slowly have come to realize it's better to admit the reality between the two nations that you first denied.
> 
> And tomorow you'll admit more.



Admit what?

There's well known diplomatic and (military) intelligence channels, but, there's nothing more than that.


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## Yzd Khalifa

Attention! 

This is what the Egyptian authority and the armed forces says in Arabic. 

For those of you who are interested in knowing exactly what they said, you will want to Google translate this article 

http://www.alarabiya.net/ar/arab-an...1604;&#1605;&#1589;&#1585;&#1610;&#1577;.html

In short, every single military action has never been taken by none other forces except the Egyptian armed forces under the command of Al-Sisi.


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## Frogman

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Attention!
> 
> This is what the Egyptian authority and the armed forces says in Arabic.
> 
> For those of you who are interested in knowing exactly what they said, you will want to Google translate this article
> 
> http://www.alarabiya.net/ar/arab-an...1604;&#1605;&#1589;&#1585;&#1610;&#1577;.html
> 
> In short, every single military action has never been taken by none other forces except the Egyptian armed forces under the command of Al-Sisi.



I would wait for the official statement from the spokesman and then make assertions or conclusions because for the past few weeks 'senior military officials' beywadona feh dahya.


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## Yzd Khalifa

Frogman said:


> I would wait for the official statement from the spokesman and then make assertions or conclusions because for the past few weeks 'senior military officials' beywadona feh dahya.



Hah! Ya pasha, this is AlArabyia, not Al-Alam. They mean with they say and say what they mean.


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## MooshMoosh

@Hazzy997Sinai.

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## Jihad_



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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> @Hazzy997Sinai.



Are you going to post pictures of the 50+ service men killed in the Sinai or the civilians that were killed by militants?

The drone strike didn't happen, even the dude that started the rumor talked to a tv channel and said an Egyptian Apache carried out the attack.


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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> Are you going to post pictures of the 50+ service men killed in the Sinai or the civilians that were killed by militants?
> 
> The drone strike didn't happen, even the dude that started the rumor talked to a tv channel and said an Egyptian Apache carried out the attack.


I don't trust El Sisi anymore. Egypt army was once favourite to all but now they lost support but as far as I know the army is divided.

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## MooshMoosh

CAIRO, Aug 10 2013 (IPS) -* Divisions are opening up within the Egyptian military over the controversial takeover* from the ousted government of Muslim Brotherhood leader Mohammed Morsi, a senior party leader says.

*&#8220;It is clear that there is disagreement within the armed forces, whose members have begun to realise the mistakes of Gen. Abdelfattah el-Sisi,&#8221;* Dr Hamza Zoba&#8217;a, senior spokesperson for the Alhuria wal Adala (Freedom and Justice) party formed from the Muslim Brotherhood told IPS.

*&#8220;El-Sisi seems to be losing support of his military partners as a result of his misconduct.&#8221;*

Zoba&#8217;a says the army sits across a red line and should not be dragged into politics. &#8220;We do not wish to see a split within the army but we are sure that we will regain our rights.&#8221;

Party supporters will press for their rights peacefully, he said. &#8220;If the coup leaders want to kill more of us, we will not mind at all.&#8221; But while protesting peacefully, Zoba&#8217;a said, &#8220;the crimes against unarmed protesters who rejected the military coup will not be tolerated.&#8221;

Bloody clashes have become a daily scene in Egypt. Alhuria wal Adala members see themselves as victims of political genocide. &#8220;We are suffering from persecution now more than the blacks of America in the past,&#8221; Zoba&#8217;a said.

Alhuria wal Adala have meanwhile backed two political offers made to the military. The first was launched by former prime minister Hisham Qandil proposing release of Morsi on one side, and an end to demonstrations on the other. The second was a five-step plan presented by Islamist thinker and former presidential candidate Mohamed Selim El-Awa.

The first of these steps would be for Morsi to delegate powers to a new interim cabinet. The cabinet would hold parliamentary elections within the following 60 days, leading to a proper cabinet. The fourth step would be a presidential election and finally then a review of the constitution.

*The Brotherhood claims come across a deep political divide. Other leaders deny a split within the army*, and see the change as a step towards democracy that would take Egypt past what were emerging as Morsi&#8217;s increasingly autocratic ways. &#8220;The Egyptian people rescued themselves at the proper time,&#8221; Abdel Ghaffar Shukr, head of the Socialist People&#8217;s Alliance Party tells IPS.

The solution to the crisis, he says, lies in implementation of the roadmap announced by the army, with a new constitution eliminating the articles that would turn Egypt into a religious state. &#8220;The Muslim Brotherhood should recognise the fait accompli. They isolate themselves and refuse to sit at the negotiations table and reconciliation sessions, then complain to the west of persecution.&#8221;

The Muslim Brotherhood, Shukr said, was &#8220;sacrificing their supporters&#8221; in armed clashes to gain the sympathy of the West. Party members are also attacking military installations and cutting off roads, he said.

*&#8220;The spectre of civil war is not far from Egypt*. If the security vacuum in Sinai is not handled wisely and quickly, *terrorism hotbeds and Jihadists would move to Cairo*, which would lead to infighting and public division.&#8221;

Human rights activist Amr Hamzawy says the Muslim Brotherhood failed to bring the transition to democracy in its year in power. It sought to control the state and to dominate political life, he said. &#8220;The Muslim Brotherhood group must move completely away from political action.&#8221;

The Brotherhood and its allies to the religious right were condemning human rights violations against them, but refusing to apologise for violations from their side. &#8220;They must submit the instigators of such violence to trial. It is the only way to make people trust their intentions.&#8221;

On the other hand, he said, the liberal parties were now turning a blind eye to human rights abuses against supporters of the ousted president. &#8220;Liberals seem tight-lipped in front of the fascist exclusion of the Muslim Brotherhood. The double standards of these political powers are now exposed. Liberals must restore their belief in democracy and cease immediately the absolute support of the army, so long as the Muslim Brotherhood leaders can acknowledge their mistakes.&#8221;

IPS &#8211; Egypt Military

That's why we have seen soldiers lifting Morsi's banners. I don't trust the generals because they aready exposed themselves to be hypocrites like denying but 100% true. Well, the non-elected govts kept warning them but we now know the real reason why Pro Morsi supporters repeadtly pushed for more protest, look like someone is backing them

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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> I don't trust El Sisi anymore. Egypt army was once favourite to all but now they lost support but as far as I know the army is divided.



It's been divided according to you for six weeks....... 

There's no division within the military, if there was the situation in Egypt would have been much worse. The overwhelming majority of Egyptians support the military. Either answer my questions or don't bother replying to me, it's frustrating.



MooshMoosh said:


> @kalu_miah Hey, I remembered you asking me a question about the crisis and the possible future. Now, things have changed and it may change in the coming weeks or months.
> 
> CAIRO, Aug 10 2013 (IPS) -* Divisions are opening up within the Egyptian military over the controversial takeover* from the ousted government of Muslim Brotherhood leader Mohammed Morsi, a senior party leader says.
> 
> *&#8220;It is clear that there is disagreement within the armed forces, whose members have begun to realise the mistakes of Gen. Abdelfattah el-Sisi,&#8221;* Dr Hamza Zoba&#8217;a, senior spokesperson for the Alhuria wal Adala (Freedom and Justice) party formed from the Muslim Brotherhood told IPS.
> 
> *&#8220;El-Sisi seems to be losing support of his military partners as a result of his misconduct.&#8221;*
> 
> Zoba&#8217;a says the army sits across a red line and should not be dragged into politics. &#8220;We do not wish to see a split within the army but we are sure that we will regain our rights.&#8221;
> 
> Party supporters will press for their rights peacefully, he said. &#8220;If the coup leaders want to kill more of us, we will not mind at all.&#8221; But while protesting peacefully, Zoba&#8217;a said, &#8220;the crimes against unarmed protesters who rejected the military coup will not be tolerated.&#8221;
> 
> Bloody clashes have become a daily scene in Egypt. Alhuria wal Adala members see themselves as victims of political genocide. &#8220;We are suffering from persecution now more than the blacks of America in the past,&#8221; Zoba&#8217;a said.
> 
> Alhuria wal Adala have meanwhile backed two political offers made to the military. The first was launched by former prime minister Hisham Qandil proposing release of Morsi on one side, and an end to demonstrations on the other. The second was a five-step plan presented by Islamist thinker and former presidential candidate Mohamed Selim El-Awa.
> 
> The first of these steps would be for Morsi to delegate powers to a new interim cabinet. The cabinet would hold parliamentary elections within the following 60 days, leading to a proper cabinet. The fourth step would be a presidential election and finally then a review of the constitution.
> 
> *The Brotherhood claims come across a deep political divide. Other leaders deny a split within the army*, and see the change as a step towards democracy that would take Egypt past what were emerging as Morsi&#8217;s increasingly autocratic ways. &#8220;The Egyptian people rescued themselves at the proper time,&#8221; Abdel Ghaffar Shukr, head of the Socialist People&#8217;s Alliance Party tells IPS.
> 
> The solution to the crisis, he says, lies in implementation of the roadmap announced by the army, with a new constitution eliminating the articles that would turn Egypt into a religious state. &#8220;The Muslim Brotherhood should recognise the fait accompli. They isolate themselves and refuse to sit at the negotiations table and reconciliation sessions, then complain to the west of persecution.&#8221;
> 
> The Muslim Brotherhood, Shukr said, was &#8220;sacrificing their supporters&#8221; in armed clashes to gain the sympathy of the West. Party members are also attacking military installations and cutting off roads, he said.
> 
> *&#8220;The spectre of civil war is not far from Egypt*. If the security vacuum in Sinai is not handled wisely and quickly, *terrorism hotbeds and Jihadists would move to Cairo*, which would lead to infighting and public division.&#8221;
> 
> Human rights activist Amr Hamzawy says the Muslim Brotherhood failed to bring the transition to democracy in its year in power. It sought to control the state and to dominate political life, he said. &#8220;The Muslim Brotherhood group must move completely away from political action.&#8221;
> 
> The Brotherhood and its allies to the religious right were condemning human rights violations against them, but refusing to apologise for violations from their side. &#8220;They must submit the instigators of such violence to trial. It is the only way to make people trust their intentions.&#8221;
> 
> On the other hand, he said, the liberal parties were now turning a blind eye to human rights abuses against supporters of the ousted president. &#8220;Liberals seem tight-lipped in front of the fascist exclusion of the Muslim Brotherhood. The double standards of these political powers are now exposed. Liberals must restore their belief in democracy and cease immediately the absolute support of the army, so long as the Muslim Brotherhood leaders can acknowledge their mistakes.&#8221;
> 
> IPS &#8211; Egypt Military
> 
> That's why we have seen soldiers lifting Morsi's banners. I don't trust the generals because they aready exposed themselves to be hypocrite. The truth is Egypt's army is divided, this is the real reason why the un elected interim can't control the supporters, they have repeadtly warned the supporters but neither listened as MB supporters often said they were "confident" and pushed more pressure but how? Looks like someone is backing them



So one soldier holding up a picture of Morsi in front of the media city who then promptly asked demonstrates to leave represents a split in a military with over 425000 soldiers and about half a million in reserve...... The FJP and you are delusional.


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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> It's been divided according to you for six weeks.......
> 
> There's no division within the military, if there was the situation in Egypt would have been much worse. The overwhelming majority of Egyptians support the military. Either answer my questions or don't bother replying to me, it's frustrating.
> 
> 
> 
> So one soldier holding up a picture of Morsi in front of the media city who then promptly asked demonstrates to leave represents a split in a military with over 425000 soldiers and about half a million in reserve...... The FJP and you are delusional.



425000 can't be deployed in Cairo, can it? No so don't assume. Why take that long when millions are outside? Simple, the puppet govts doesn't know what to do. Eh, you think things are normal now, nope 

everyday, all day, all night long..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihLzTrLNsqE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIdWGATI62I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r_dIdP2Y_E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yQqEdD-8Kw

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## Frogman

> 425000 can't be deployed in Cairo, can it? No so don't assume.



Show me one 9 man squad that has defected or a unit or battalion or a division.......

The Egyptian military hasn't split and it wont. Stop being delusional. tens of thousands of troops can be deployed in Cairo if needed from Inshas (paratroopers and commandos) and from the Republican guard. If there was a split would Op. Bright Star still go ahead as planned?

Six weeks and nothing has happened and it never will.


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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> Show me one 9 man squad that has defected or a unit or battalion or a division.......
> 
> The Egyptian military hasn't split and it wont. Stop being delusional. tens of thousands of troops can be deployed in Cairo if needed from Inshas (paratroopers and commandos) and from the Republican guard.


There is no army in Rabaa or Pro supporters elsewhere but it's obvious, the interim had been warning them since three weeks so where is it? Why don't they crush the million supporters along with childrens, mothers, women, fathers, men and all of it? Why don't they do it now?? Economic will be the problem if this goes one, so let be with it and things will change. They are regretting it day by day. Why is that?

(DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THE ARMED FORCE) - Egypt Military 
Egypt Military

(MORE VIOLENCE MEANS ARMY WILL STEP IN BUT WILL DEEPEN DIVISION) - Violent clashes erupt at pro-Morsi rallies across Egypt - EGYPT - FRANCE 24

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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> There is no army in Rabaa or Pro supporters elsewhere but it's obvious, the interim had been warning them since three weeks so where is it? Why don't they crush the million supporters along with childrens, mothers, women, fathers, men and all of it? Why don't they do it now?? Economic will the problem if this goes one, so let be with it and things will change. They are regretting it day by day. Why is that?
> 
> (DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THE ARMED FORCE) - Egypt Military
> Egypt Military
> 
> (MORE VIOLENCE MEANS ARMY WILL STEP IN) - Violent clashes erupt at pro-Morsi rallies across Egypt - EGYPT - FRANCE 24



From subject to subject providing nothing of any value or substance. Citing articles which quote MB and FJP members who don't have any line of contact with the military or any proof of division does not constitute proof of divisions. Rab3a will be cleared but gradually, if it isn't then the status quo will remain.

You can protest until the earth is no longer habitable but it still wont bring Morsi back.


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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> From subject to subject providing nothing of any value or substance. Citing articles which quote MB and FJP members who don't have any line of contact with the military or any proof of division does not constitute proof of divisions. Rab3a will be cleared but gradually, if it isn't then the status quo will remain.
> 
> You can protest until the earth is no longer habitable but it still wont bring Morsi back.


articles? really, you just post an article about Coptics and you said Rabaa will be cleared, sound like you enjoying killing  You can deny everything; the death tolls, drones, clashes, military, shooting by non police thugs and all of the denial coming out of Pissi's puppet's mouth. I am seeing in my "EYES" on the "VIDEOS" and "PICTURES" on what is going on.

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## Frogman

MooshMoosh said:


> articles? really, you just post an article about Coptics and you said Rabaa will be cleared, sound like you enjoying killing  You can deny everything; the death tolls, drones, clashes, military, shooting by non police thugs and all of the denial coming out of Pissi's puppet's mouth. I am seeing in my "EYES" on the "VIDEOS" and "PICTURES" on what is going on.



You seriously don't read my comments do you. Copts have been persecuted in Egypt for for decades it isn't anything new or surprising. I'm not the one whos laughing at the sight of killings in Syria or anywhere else, I'm not the one mocking the dead or threatening civil war or the one who supports the use of violence to clear protesters, I'm not the one who uses the brutal pictures of dead people for politcal gain and posturing, I'm not the one inciting violence against religious figures or ordinary people who oppose their views, I'm not the one whos accusing people of being kafireen, you are.

You fail to provide any evidence which contradicts the death toll (even though I have told you to provide it a million times).
You fail to provide any evidence of a drone strike.
You fail to provide anything which backs up your views and your assertions.
All the while I continue to condemn the actions of the military and security forces and you fail to condemn those killed by MB supporters and militants in the Sinai.
I support clearing Rab3a but in no way do I support the use of violence in order to clear it.
I do not support excluding Islamist's from the politcal scene yet you would support eradicating all those who hold the opposite views. 
I do not support the propaganda generated by state/private tv stations against Islamists yet you support and spew the hatred provided by the MBs propaganda machine.
You would see the nation destroyed in order to return a failure of a man.
You would see the nation destroyed in order for Islamism to have a foothold.
You would see the nation destroyed for a select few who distort the word of a god in order to fit their political needs.
You would see the nation destroyed because you hate those who live there.
I'm capable of thinking for myself and seeing what the military does and responding to that action accordingly either by condemning such actions or supporting it, but you would support men who distort religion for their political gain even if they were leading you to the arms of Satan without even questioning their actions. 
I'm capable of calling for those implicated in the killing of innocent protesters to be put on trail but you are incapable of calling those who did the same to trail because you share the same views.
I'm capable of distinguishing between religious matters and political matters but you are incapable, you view those who are against your leaders and views to be against an entire religion.
You would see thousands dead just to make a point.
You would see tens of thousands dead just to make a point.
You would see hundreds of thousands dead just to make a point.
You would see millions dead just to make a point.
You would see every Egyptian dead just to make a point.
But what does it matter to you, you're in Australia without a care in the world about the nation you originated from. Even if it did fall into flames you would be unaffected and I doubt you would even care.
You're a despicable human being who makes jokes when he sees the sight of death or the threat of it.
You're the scum of this world.


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## Yzd Khalifa

Top U.S. senators urge Egyptians to &#8216;come together&#8217;
Sunday, 11 August 2013
U.S. Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham (R) address a news conference in Cairo, August 6, 2013. (Reuters)

Al Arabiya
U.S. senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham advised Egyptians to &#8220;come together for the sake of their country&#8221; in an opinion piece for the Washington Post published on Saturday.

The Republican Senators, who described themselves as &#8220;longtime friends of Egypt and its armed forces,&#8221; visited Cairo this week on a diplomatic mission to end the political crisis in the country.

The senators met with leaders from the interim government, the armed forces, the Muslim Brotherhood and other political and civil groups in an attempt to resolve the weeks-long stand-off.

While they reiterated their support for Egypt and condemned &#8220;Mursi&#8217;s abuses of power,&#8221; they went against the official U.S. line in the article, writing that it was &#8220;difficult to describe the circumstances of Mursi&#8217;s removal from office as anything other than a coup.&#8221;

Their central message was one of inclusivity and proper democratic process.
&#8220;Democracy is the only viable path to lasting stability, national reconciliation, sustainable economic growth and the return of investment and tourism in Egypt.

And democracy means more than elections. It means democratic governance: an inclusive political process in which all Egyptians are free and able to participate,&#8221; they wrote in the newspaper.

McCain and Graham warned of the risks in Egypt&#8217;s future if a path of unity were not pursued, pointing out Egypt&#8217;s strategic importance for security in the region and beyond.

&#8220;Extremist and reactionary forces, some in the Egyptian state and some among Mursi&#8217;s supporters in the streets, want to drag the country down a dark path of violence, oppression and revenge.

&#8220;It is worth remembering &#8212; especially when the American mind has refocused on the real and persistent threat posed by al-Qaeda &#8212; that its leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri, is a former member of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood who was radicalized during the violent crackdowns and detentions of Brotherhood leaders by previous Egyptian regimes. 

Repeating the worst mistakes of the past now will only condemn Egypt to a future of protracted instability and stagnation, while creating a new generation of radical recruits for terrorist groups such as al-Qaeda.&#8221;

The U.S. senators said they spoke in Cairo on the importance of compromise in a real democracy.

&#8220;It is essential for Mursi&#8217;s supporters, including the Muslim Brotherhood, to accept that his actions generated massive public discontent and that he will not be reinstated as president of Egypt,&#8221; they wrote.

&#8220;At the same time, it is essential for the civilian government and armed forces to recognize that, no matter how much they may dislike Mursi&#8217;s supporters, they are Egyptians, too.&#8221;

Despite these warnings, their message was hopeful for Egypt&#8217;s future.
&#8220;We believe there are still many people of goodwill and patriotism on all sides who want a better future for Egypt. We heard much that was encouraging in our meetings&#8230;

&#8220;We still believe Egypt can serve as a model of inclusive democracy that can inspire the region and the world, and, in this great endeavor, the United States must continue to offer its support.&#8221;

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...enators-urge-Egyptians-to-come-together-.html

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## Yzd Khalifa

@Frogman @MooshMoosh 

Guys calm down, okay?

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## Tanja

Muslim Brotherhood condemns government's threats of crackdown
*The new government has threatened the pro-Morsi supporters with a total crackdown if the protests will not come to an end otherwise.*




_Protests in Egypt continue despite threats of crackdown_Source_

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## Ceylal



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## Yzd Khalifa

Ceylal said:


>



So he's telling the US to stand with the Egyptian but didn't want to get into details about the Israeli view point on the matter  interesting


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## kalu_miah

MooshMoosh said:


> CAIRO, Aug 10 2013 (IPS) -* Divisions are opening up within the Egyptian military over the controversial takeover* from the ousted government of Muslim Brotherhood leader Mohammed Morsi, a senior party leader says.
> 
> *It is clear that there is disagreement within the armed forces, whose members have begun to realise the mistakes of Gen. Abdelfattah el-Sisi,* Dr Hamza Zobaa, senior spokesperson for the Alhuria wal Adala (Freedom and Justice) party formed from the Muslim Brotherhood told IPS.
> 
> *El-Sisi seems to be losing support of his military partners as a result of his misconduct.*
> 
> Zobaa says the army sits across a red line and should not be dragged into politics. We do not wish to see a split within the army but we are sure that we will regain our rights.
> 
> Party supporters will press for their rights peacefully, he said. If the coup leaders want to kill more of us, we will not mind at all. But while protesting peacefully, Zobaa said, the crimes against unarmed protesters who rejected the military coup will not be tolerated.
> 
> Bloody clashes have become a daily scene in Egypt. Alhuria wal Adala members see themselves as victims of political genocide. We are suffering from persecution now more than the blacks of America in the past, Zobaa said.
> 
> Alhuria wal Adala have meanwhile backed two political offers made to the military. The first was launched by former prime minister Hisham Qandil proposing release of Morsi on one side, and an end to demonstrations on the other. The second was a five-step plan presented by Islamist thinker and former presidential candidate Mohamed Selim El-Awa.
> 
> The first of these steps would be for Morsi to delegate powers to a new interim cabinet. The cabinet would hold parliamentary elections within the following 60 days, leading to a proper cabinet. The fourth step would be a presidential election and finally then a review of the constitution.
> 
> *The Brotherhood claims come across a deep political divide. Other leaders deny a split within the army*, and see the change as a step towards democracy that would take Egypt past what were emerging as Morsis increasingly autocratic ways. The Egyptian people rescued themselves at the proper time, Abdel Ghaffar Shukr, head of the Socialist Peoples Alliance Party tells IPS.
> 
> The solution to the crisis, he says, lies in implementation of the roadmap announced by the army, with a new constitution eliminating the articles that would turn Egypt into a religious state. The Muslim Brotherhood should recognise the fait accompli. They isolate themselves and refuse to sit at the negotiations table and reconciliation sessions, then complain to the west of persecution.
> 
> The Muslim Brotherhood, Shukr said, was sacrificing their supporters in armed clashes to gain the sympathy of the West. Party members are also attacking military installations and cutting off roads, he said.
> 
> *The spectre of civil war is not far from Egypt*. If the security vacuum in Sinai is not handled wisely and quickly, *terrorism hotbeds and Jihadists would move to Cairo*, which would lead to infighting and public division.
> 
> Human rights activist Amr Hamzawy says the Muslim Brotherhood failed to bring the transition to democracy in its year in power. It sought to control the state and to dominate political life, he said. The Muslim Brotherhood group must move completely away from political action.
> 
> The Brotherhood and its allies to the religious right were condemning human rights violations against them, but refusing to apologise for violations from their side. They must submit the instigators of such violence to trial. It is the only way to make people trust their intentions.
> 
> On the other hand, he said, the liberal parties were now turning a blind eye to human rights abuses against supporters of the ousted president. Liberals seem tight-lipped in front of the fascist exclusion of the Muslim Brotherhood. The double standards of these political powers are now exposed. Liberals must restore their belief in democracy and cease immediately the absolute support of the army, so long as the Muslim Brotherhood leaders can acknowledge their mistakes.
> 
> IPS  Egypt Military
> 
> That's why we have seen soldiers lifting Morsi's banners. I don't trust the generals because they aready exposed themselves to be hypocrites like denying but 100% true. Well, the non-elected govts kept warning them but we now know the real reason why Pro Morsi supporters repeadtly pushed for more protest, look like someone is backing them



Sorry Bro, I could not respond earlier due to difficult domestic situation in the weekend. Thanks for posting an excellent news article that matches with my perception of the broad outline of ongoing events in Egypt.

It is inevitable that the Army will get divided, as mostly Army top brass can be bought off by outside forces, whereas the soldiers and young officers remain closer to people and their aspirations. I have seen the same situation in our country as well. Sometimes soldiers and young officers can revolt against senior officers, sometimes they cannot, depends on the given specific situation. In Egypt's current situation, it may happen, if Sisi goes for a bloody crackdown and the death toll dramatically rises from 100-200 to 1000-2000 level or even higher. If the situation takes that kind of turn, this might enable Morsi supporters to paint Sisi as a criminal murderous thugh, just like Mubarak, Ben Ali, Gaddafi and Asad. It may then be possible that Sisi led interim govt. will loose support of Gulf govt. and the West, as they may not be able to maintain their face while backing a criminal murderous thug. This would then enable young officers and soldiers to successfully pull off a coup of their own against senior officers supporting Sisi.

But we will deal with this if Sisi takes any murderous step, at that time. For now, it looks like that Sisi understands the gravity of the situation and his own vulnerable position and is holding off on his threat to forcibly disperse the protest sit-ins.

The important thing now is to find a solution to the crisis. The Egyptian society has been polarized in pro-Islamist and anti-Islamist faction, just like it is happening in other Muslim countries, to the detriment of Muslim societies and their national and supra-national interest. Anti-Muslim forces are using three main elements to make these polarizations:

1. Senior officers of armed forces
2. Liberal/secular Muslims
3. Minorities of other religious/sectarian/ethnic affiliations (Copts in Egypt, Alawi's in Syria, Kurds and Alevi's in Turkey, Shia's in Pakistan, Hindu's in Bangladesh etc.)

So I fully support the continuing non-violent protests and sit-in of the pro-Morsi supporters. Yes, it is disrupting public life, but it is their democratic right and it is the right thing to do. But what they need to do at the same time, is remain active to find a way out of this impasse and be a little flexible. If MB has made mistakes in the past during the 1 year Morsi-rule, they have to show that they have learned from those mistakes and have become wiser. This they can show by finding a compromise solution with current interim govt., illegitimate as they may be and end this difficult situation.

The offer mentioned in above article is a good start:



> Alhuria wal Adala have meanwhile backed two political offers made to the military. The first was launched by former prime minister Hisham Qandil proposing release of Morsi on one side, and an end to demonstrations on the other. The second was a five-step plan presented by Islamist thinker and former presidential candidate Mohamed Selim El-Awa.
> 
> The first of these steps would be for Morsi to delegate powers to a new interim cabinet. The cabinet would hold parliamentary elections within the following 60 days, leading to a proper cabinet. The fourth step would be a presidential election and finally then a review of the constitution.



Due to the allegation of authoritarian rule and not listening to opposition during 1 year Morsi-rule, Alhuria wal Adala (Freedom and Justice party) need to be more flexible and agile and come to a solution and end this impasse as soon as possible. They need to continue to make adjustments to the proposals and declare them to foreign presses, so that these proposals get proper publicity, showing that Muslim Brotherhood and its affiliate Freedom and Justice party are being active and flexible to find a solution and thus create pressure on Sisi led interim govt. to accept one of these proposals.

Currently, I am not seeing these proposals getting the publicity they deserve in world news outlets, which will create pressure on Sisi led interim govt. May be they can use Aljazeera for publicity.

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## kalu_miah

Saudis Divided Over Egypt - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

*Saudis Divided Over Egypt*

By: Madawi Al-Rasheed for Al-Monitor Posted on July 30.

The Egyptian crisis continues to divide Saudi society after its elected president, Mohammed Morsi, was deposed by the military on June 30. While the Saudi government made it clear that it supported the coup and rewarded Egypt with $5 billion, a disenfranchised society had different views on foreign policy. Three trends are discernible: One put its weight behind the Muslim Brotherhood, one sided with the government decision and one showed caution in celebrating the end of a short-lived democratic experiment. However, all were equally passionate about the crisis. Their heated passions may not have been about Egypt. To a large extent, Saudi responses clearly reflected a growing tension and polarization in Saudi Arabia itself.

A Saudi Muslim Brotherhood constituency remains unrecognized in formal societies or political parties since those are banned in Saudi Arabia. Yet, religious scholars and lay activists known to be affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood and its discourse were quick to condemn the coup in Egypt and their own governments lavish financial support offered only hours after the Egyptian coup. Veteran Islamists quickly organized an online petition to gather signatures in support of the Egyptian president and condemned the killing of more than 100 Egyptian protesters. The Saudi government called in the organizers of the petition for interrogation and banned a couple of television shows on Islamist television channels. Saudi foreign policy is too important to be questioned by activists.

Deprived of any channel for formal debate in the public sphere, Saudi activists sought refuge in the virtual world to launch attacks on their own government and several other groups. They condemned the Egyptian Nour party, which supported the Egyptian coup, because it was considered an extension of the local Saudi Salafis, opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood activism. They also launched attacks on Saudi writers in the official Saudi media who celebrated the demise of Morsi. The battles of Rabia al-Adawiya where pro-Morsi supporters gathered were juxtaposed on an equally bloody yet virtual Saudi terrain.

While Saudi Islamists continue to demand the return of Morsi to power, many so-called Saudi liberal writers concentrated their efforts on celebrating the end of Islamist politics not only in Egypt but in their own society. Demonizing the Muslim Brotherhood, magnifying their mistakes in power and writing premature obituaries of political Islam became regular features of Saudi print, visual and virtual media, all in support of the official Saudi foreign policy. It was clear that an official green light was given to end any kind of tolerance for Islamist politics. Most of these attacks reflect local politics where the euphoria of Saudi Islamists had to be curbed following the success of Islamists in Egypt and Tunisia. The demise of Islamists in Egypt was seen as a great victory that had to be replicated at home.

Yet a third Saudi group was cautious. It consisted of a small elite disenchanted with Muslim Brotherhood practices in power but sympathetic to their ideological position. They praised democracy as a framework for government, warned against military intervention in the political process and condemned the shooting of protesters in Egypt without taking an obvious position in support of the Muslim Brotherhood. However, the message of this small group of elite writers was lost amid the passionate verbal battles between Saudi pro-Morsi activists and their opponents. The Egyptian crisis left Saudis divided with no neutral ground to occupy.

Saudi engagement with what is going on in Egypt is not new, for Egypt has always inflamed Arab imagination beyond its borders. In the 20th century, it has produced three trends that influenced not only Saudi Arabia but the rest of the Arab world. First, modernity  with its arguments and debates, not to mention its popular culture  spread from Egypt to the rest of the region, with Saudi Arabia receiving its share of this early 20th-century development. Second, with Gamal Abdel Nasser, Arab nationalism came to Saudi Arabia from Egypt and recruited supporters, among whom were well-known royalty such as Talal ibn Abdul Aziz and his Free Princes movement. Arab nationalisms anti-imperialist jargon inflamed the imagination of a local population, especially that in the Hijaz and the oil-rich Eastern Province, still adhering to primordial identities and trying to find its place in a new world. Finally, the latest of the Egyptian trends was Islamism, which inspired a new generation of Saudis who were struggling to find a language of opposition that combines Islamic authenticity with mobilization, the latter being forbidden under local Salafist religious discourse.

While Saudis never ceased to be inspired by Egyptian intellectual and political exports, their government endeavored to eliminate the spread of alien ideas and their consequences. Its religious scholars dubbed modernity a form of blasphemy that leads to secularism, doubt and loss of Muslim identity. The government initially used Islamism to fight Nassers Arab nationalism, considered a remnant of the pre-Islamic age of ignorance whereby celebrating Arabism undermines the unity of Muslims. The Saudi government reached an amicable relation with Egypt only after Anwar al-Sadat came to power but felt compelled to boycott him after the 1979 Camp David Agreement. Under Mubarak, harmonious but occasionally tense relations with Egypt were maintained against a whole range of enemies, Iran being one of them.

Saudi Arabia is putting its full weight behind the Egyptian military coup that promises to end all Islamist politics and relieve Saudi Arabia of the menace of one of its most popular Islamist movements. A blow to the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood organization is believed to undermine all affiliate branches, destroy their popularity and, most important, end the era of Islamism across the Arab world. While awaiting the final death of Islamism, Saudi Arabia also has at its disposal a local Salafist trend that abhors the Muslim Brotherhood, considered a competitive, divisive and dangerous trend. The Muslim Brotherhood undermines Salafist monopoly over the religious and political scene, not to mention educational and social institutions.

Yet, the real danger to Saudi Arabia is not the multiple isms Egypt has previously exported. In fact, a stable democratic Egypt will be the ultimate threat that will reverberate across the region and set a precedent that many Saudis will carefully observe. 

As long as Egypt is crippled by post-revolutionary turmoil, Saudi Arabia can rest assured that it will never become a source of inspiration. A prolonged military dictatorship ensures that the Saudis remain fearful of revolutionary action and its consequences, hence the governments determination to continue supporting military rule in Egypt. A democratic Egypt will be hard to co-opt or contain. Rather than dividing Saudi opinion, Egypt may then unify them.

Madawi Al-Rasheed is a visiting professor at the Middle East Centre at the London School of Economics and Political Science. She has written extensively about the Arabian Peninsula, Arab migration, globalization, religious trans-nationalism and gender. On Twitter: @madawiDr

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## kalu_miah

Some interesting articles on Egypt.

Coptic Christian columnist blasts McCain and Graham:
Raymond Ibrahim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Egyptians Enraged by U.S. Brotherhood Outreach | FrontPage Magazine

Zionist columnist angry with Obama, McCain and Graham:
The Death of the U.S.-Egypt Alliance | FrontPage Magazine

Israeli propaganda against Egyptian Muslim brotherhood and Hamas:
Egypt

More confirmation of Israeli drone strike on Sinai:
Dozens Killed as Israel, Egypt Strike Targets in Sinai | Global Research
Islamist militant group in Egypt says it was target of Israeli drone - World News

Sisi govt. postpones police crack down of Morsi supporters protest and sit-in:
Egypt police hold off on threat to evict pro-Morsi sit-ins
Egyptian authorities postpone plan to disperse pro-Morsi protestors | Fox News
Mursi supporters defy Egypt authorities: storm us over our dead bodies | euronews, world news
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...i-sit-ins-to-avoid-bloodshed/article13710180/

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## Ceylal

Yzd Khalifa said:


> So he's telling the US to stand with the Egyptian but didn't want to get into details about the Israeli view point on the matter  interesting


Israelis always ride the fence line...In the red indian territory is called "*speaking with a forked tong*"
A firm Sissi hand on Egypt is to Israel benefit...Mobarek era revisited.

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## Yzd Khalifa

You mean it is more like " that's their onion "? :/ 


Ceylal said:


> Israelis always ride the fence line...In the red indian territory is called "*speaking with a forked tong*"
> A firm Sissi hand on Egypt is to Israel benefit...Mobarek era revisited.

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## kalu_miah

I heard this interview on radio yesterday:

Islamists Accuse U.S. Of Complicity In Morsi Overthrow : NPR

*Islamists Accuse U.S. Of Complicity In Morsi Overthrow*
August 12, 2013 4:49 PM

Robert Siegel speaks with former Egyptian parliamentarian Abdul Mawgoud Rageh Dardery. He is a member of Egypt's "Freedom and Justice Party," which is the Muslim Brotherhood's political arm. He talks about the parties terms for ending street protests and the anti-U.S. sentiment of Egyptians.

ROBERT SIEGEL, HOST:

More now on Egypt. Over the past year, we've checked in often with Dr. Abdul Mawgoud Dardery. He is an English professor from Luxor. He got his PhD in Pittsburgh. He is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood who ran for parliament as a candidate of President Morsi's Freedom and Justice Party. He was a moderate in that group and he won a seat from Luxor before the parliamentary elections were thrown out by a court.

He's in Washington this week as a representative of a pro-Democracy, anti-coup group. Welcome to the program once again.

ADBUL MAWGOUD DARDERY: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

SIEGEL: You've expressed your diehard opposition to the military's ouster of President Morsi, but his supporters now face the possibilities of a massive police action and arrest. Is there some room for negotiation that would acknowledge both the legality of Morsi's election, at the same time the reality of widespread opposition to his time in office?

DARDERY: There should be room and political parties should be able to negotiate and compromise with one another, as long as the legitimacy of the will of the Egyptian people is served, is considered, is respected, the legitimacy of the presidency, and also the constitution and the elected parliament.

SIEGEL: Do you think it could be respected, at least symbolically - that is, a negotiated, brief, symbolic return to power by President Morsi, followed by someone else being president until the next elections? Does that strike you as fair, just from your own perspective?

DARDERY: It is not really fair. What we want is the respect for the will of the Egyptian people and then everything can be negotiated. Early election can be negotiated. Parliamentary election can be negotiated. (Unintelligible) government that is from the different political parties can be negotiated. I think everything we put on the table was the will of the Egyptian people is respected.

SIEGEL: The Brotherhood is accused by the interim government of blocking any negotiation, any feasible negotiation.

DARDERY: It is, in fact, the opposite because they want us to accept the coup, and that is not acceptable. That is not negotiable.

SIEGEL: Supporters of President Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood seem to hold President Obama and the United States responsible for Morsi's ouster. Do you think Washington actually could have persuaded General al-Sissi to not act as he did?

DARDERY: That is the tragedy now, the perception on the streets of Egypt that America is responsible one way or another because it failed to clearly condemn the coup. It also failed to impose sanctions on the coup government and also not to allow the democratic process to move forward. To those who came to Egypt as quote-unquote 'intermediaries," always asked the pro-democracy, anti-coup coalition to accept the status quo.

That is un-American. It is unethical and it should not be the American stand.

SIEGEL: Well, you've described that as the perception on the streets of Egypt. Do you share that view? Do you believe that the United State could've actually prevented the Egyptian military?

DARDERY: Yeah, from what I see, it is not just a perception. It is becoming a reality now from what the intermediaries, the American, Mr. (unintelligible) going there and meeting jailed leaders, jailed political - refusing to meet President Morsi and not allowing the president who was elected by the Egyptians, and not supporting democracy. It's un-American.

SIEGEL: But what do you say to the argument that ideally none of this would have happened and ideally there would be parliament, a constitution, some degree of comity and there would be procedures to appeal to? There aren't. So where we are now is the military has acted, President Morsi's in jail somewhere, who knows, and we've got to deal with the situation as it is.

DARDERY: We stand very firm in this - we reject the coup and we'll never except it as ramification. And that should be rejected by the civilized world, especially by the United States. Everyone is watching now what the Obama administration is going to do. If the coup succeeds there are disasters going to happen in the area. But if the coup is stopped and democracy is back on track, then there are many ways that we can solve those problems.

But during the coup and it's either staying silent, reluctant to condemn it, it is not giving a good image for the United States in that part of the world. It is not just Egypt. It is really beyond Egypt. It's in the Arab world and the Muslim world.

SIEGEL: President Morsi's detention has been extended today. The authorities say he'll be kept longer than they had said before.

DARDERY: It is not just President Morsi detention, the whole country is in detention now. The whole country is kidnapped.

SIEGEL: If - well, how significant is President Morsi's whereabouts to that? And would his release be seen by those huge crowds in Cairo as some sign of conciliation? Or would it require his restoration?

DARDERY: If President Morsi comes as a person, that is not enough. He needs to come back as the president of the country, so that the will of the Egyptian people can be respected. And then everything is open for negotiation, open for discussion.

SIEGEL: Let's return to this, you speak of the will of the Egyptian people. But what we're hearing from our reporters there is that the will of the Egyptian people is deeply divided.

DARDERY: Yes, it is.

SIEGEL: Very deeply divided...

DARDERY: Yes, it is divided, no doubt about it. It is polarized and the only way how can we make sure that those who oppose him or support him are more than the other? The only way is through the ballot box. There is no other way.

SIEGEL: Dr. Dardery, thank you very much for talking with us.

DARDERY: Thank you.

SIEGEL: Abdul Mawgoud Dardery of Luxor, Egypt, a member of Mohamed Morsi's Freedom and Justice Party.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by a contractor for NPR, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of NPR's programming is the audio.


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## kalu_miah

Today's news overview:

Yemeni Nobel winner Tawakul Karman says Egypt coup deadly for Arab democracy

Clashes erupt in Egypt after security forces postpone plan to disperse protest camps | Fox News

Key events in Egypt's uprising and unrest | Fox News

Unprecedented coordination between Israel and Egypt comes to light in Sinai fight.

As predicted by me earlier, Iran gets to accuse KSA of double dealing, using the situation in Egypt:
PressTV - KSA plays dual role in Egypt: Analyst

Egypt shooting: Coptic Christian schoolgirl Jessi Boulus, 10, gunned down in Cairo | Mail Online

Morsi supporters in Egypt pledge to die rather than disband protest | World news | The Guardian

My personal opinion, Sisi should try to learn from AKP govt. in Turkey. In almost 2.5 month long protest of the same magnitude, only 8 people have died so far. Any death is regrettable, but compared to the govt. estimate of 80+50=130 death so far in Egypt by Sisi's military led govt., the handling of protest in Turkey is in a completely different class:
2013 protests in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Water canons, tear gas, rubber bullets - there are many non-lethal options for crowd control. Killing of unarmed protesters, even allegedly for law enforcement is a crime against humanity. All criminals who commit these crimes must pay for their crimes in the future.

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## BlueWarrior

kalu_miah said:


> Today's news overview:
> 
> Yemeni Nobel winner Tawakul Karman says Egypt coup deadly for Arab democracy
> 
> Clashes erupt in Egypt after security forces postpone plan to disperse protest camps | Fox News
> 
> Key events in Egypt's uprising and unrest | Fox News
> 
> Unprecedented coordination between Israel and Egypt comes to light in Sinai fight.
> 
> As predicted by me earlier, Iran gets to accuse KSA of double dealing, using the situation in Egypt:
> PressTV - KSA plays dual role in Egypt: Analyst
> 
> Egypt shooting: Coptic Christian schoolgirl Jessi Boulus, 10, gunned down in Cairo | Mail Online
> 
> Morsi supporters in Egypt pledge to die rather than disband protest | World news | The Guardian
> 
> My personal opinion, Sisi should try to learn from AKP govt. in Turkey. In almost 2.5 month long protest of the same magnitude, only 8 people have died so far. Any death is regrettable, but compared to the govt. estimate of 80+50=130 death so far in Egypt by Sisi's military led govt., the handling of protest in Turkey is in a completely different class:
> 2013 protests in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Water canons, tear gas, rubber bullets - there are many non-lethal options for crowd control. Killing of unarmed protesters, even allegedly for law enforcement is a crime against humanity. All criminals who commit these crimes must pay for their crimes in the future.


I think the Turkish police managed to handle the people in Gezi because they were minority. When you posted an interesting interview between Dardery and Seigel who said deeply divided then does that means the country is divided into 50/50 and can they manage to use lethal options on 50%? How come BBC reported today that numbers of morsi supporters swelled but I can't find any news on the newly government supporters?


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## iranigirl2

kalu_miah said:


> My personal opinion, Sisi should try to learn from AKP govt. in Turkey. In almost 2.5 month long protest of the same magnitude, only 8 people have died so far. Any death is regrettable, but compared to the govt. estimate of 80+50=130 death so far in Egypt by Sisi's military led govt., the handling of protest in Turkey is in a completely different class:
> 2013 protests in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Water canons, tear gas, rubber bullets - there are many non-lethal options for crowd control. Killing of unarmed protesters, even allegedly for law enforcement is a crime against humanity. All criminals who commit these crimes must pay for their crimes in the future.



Now, lets see what would happen if Powerful countries start to Arm and train the Protestors, turn them into fighters and spend billions of dollars for this operation and send in thousands of foreign fighters!


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## Naifov

Today: More than 50 killed, this is just ridiculous 

"&#1604;&#1604;&#1593;&#1585;&#1576; &#1601;&#1610; &#1607;&#1584;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1608;&#1602;&#1593;: "&#1578;&#1589;&#1606;&#1610;&#1601; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1608;&#1575;&#1602;&#1601; &#1605;&#1605;&#1575; &#1601;&#1610; &#1585;&#1575;&#1576;&#1593;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1570;&#1606; &#1604;&#1605; &#1578;&#1593;&#1583; &#1604;&#1610;&#1576;&#1585;&#1575;&#1604;&#1610; &#1571;&#1608; &#1573;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605;&#1610;. &#1575;&#1606;&#1602;&#1604;&#1575;&#1576;&#1610; &#1571;&#1608; &#1583;&#1610;&#1605;&#1602;&#1585;&#1575;&#1591;&#1610;. &#1579;&#1608;&#1585;&#1610; &#1571;&#1608; &#1573;&#1582;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1610;... &#1573;&#1604;&#1582;. &#1575;&#1604;&#1570;&#1606; &#1589;&#1575;&#1585;&#1578; &#1601;&#1602;&#1591; &#1573;&#1606;&#1587;&#1575;&#1606;&#1610; &#1571;&#1608; &#1581;&#1610;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1610;.

&#1604;&#1605; &#1575;&#1587;&#1575;&#1606;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1582;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606; &#1610;&#1608;&#1605;&#1575; &#1608;&#1604;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605;&#1610;&#1610;&#1606; &#1602;&#1591;&#1593;&#1575;&#1548; &#1604;&#1603;&#1606; &#1575;&#1606; &#1575;&#1601;&#1585;&#1581; &#1576;&#1602;&#1578;&#1604; &#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1576;&#1585;&#1610;&#1575;&#1569; &#1608;&#1575;&#1587;&#1575;&#1606;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1591;&#1594;&#1610;&#1575;&#1606; &#1576;&#1585;&#1590;&#1575; &#1608;&#1576;&#1593;&#1590; &#1575;&#1604;&#1603;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605; &#1548; &#1607;&#1584;&#1575; &#1607;&#1608; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1582;&#1601; &#1576;&#1593;&#1610;&#1606;&#1607; ! 

Egypt will prevail against Army and monarchy tyranny.

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## Hussein

BlueWarrior said:


> I think the Turkish police managed to handle the people in Gezi because they were minority. When you posted an interesting interview between Dardery and Seigel who said deeply divided then does that means the country is divided into 50/50 and can they manage to use lethal options on 50%? How come BBC reported today that numbers of morsi supporters swelled but I can't find any news on the newly government supporters?



they are more Turks anti Erdogan than Egyptians pro Morsi
it is not 50/50 it is a group which uses violence in Egypt when in Turkey people were peaceful. that's the difference.


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## BlueWarrior

Naifov said:


> Today: More than 50 killed, this is just ridiculous
> 
> "&#1604;&#1604;&#1593;&#1585;&#1576; &#1601;&#1610; &#1607;&#1584;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1608;&#1602;&#1593;: "&#1578;&#1589;&#1606;&#1610;&#1601; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1608;&#1575;&#1602;&#1601; &#1605;&#1605;&#1575; &#1601;&#1610; &#1585;&#1575;&#1576;&#1593;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1570;&#1606; &#1604;&#1605; &#1578;&#1593;&#1583; &#1604;&#1610;&#1576;&#1585;&#1575;&#1604;&#1610; &#1571;&#1608; &#1573;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605;&#1610;. &#1575;&#1606;&#1602;&#1604;&#1575;&#1576;&#1610; &#1571;&#1608; &#1583;&#1610;&#1605;&#1602;&#1585;&#1575;&#1591;&#1610;. &#1579;&#1608;&#1585;&#1610; &#1571;&#1608; &#1573;&#1582;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1610;... &#1573;&#1604;&#1582;. &#1575;&#1604;&#1570;&#1606; &#1589;&#1575;&#1585;&#1578; &#1601;&#1602;&#1591; &#1573;&#1606;&#1587;&#1575;&#1606;&#1610; &#1571;&#1608; &#1581;&#1610;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1610;.
> 
> &#1604;&#1605; &#1575;&#1587;&#1575;&#1606;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1582;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606; &#1610;&#1608;&#1605;&#1575; &#1608;&#1604;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605;&#1610;&#1610;&#1606; &#1602;&#1591;&#1593;&#1575;&#1548; &#1604;&#1603;&#1606; &#1575;&#1606; &#1575;&#1601;&#1585;&#1581; &#1576;&#1602;&#1578;&#1604; &#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1576;&#1585;&#1610;&#1575;&#1569; &#1608;&#1575;&#1587;&#1575;&#1606;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1591;&#1594;&#1610;&#1575;&#1606; &#1576;&#1585;&#1590;&#1575; &#1608;&#1576;&#1593;&#1590; &#1575;&#1604;&#1603;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605; &#1548; &#1607;&#1584;&#1575; &#1607;&#1608; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1582;&#1601; &#1576;&#1593;&#1610;&#1606;&#1607; !
> 
> Egypt will prevail against Army and monarchy tyranny.


Damn moosh got banned. Can anyone post pictures or videos? Thanks.


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## Algeria

Naifov said:


> Today: More than 50 killed, this is just ridiculous
> 
> "&#1604;&#1604;&#1593;&#1585;&#1576; &#1601;&#1610; &#1607;&#1584;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1608;&#1602;&#1593;: "&#1578;&#1589;&#1606;&#1610;&#1601; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1608;&#1575;&#1602;&#1601; &#1605;&#1605;&#1575; &#1601;&#1610; &#1585;&#1575;&#1576;&#1593;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1570;&#1606; &#1604;&#1605; &#1578;&#1593;&#1583; &#1604;&#1610;&#1576;&#1585;&#1575;&#1604;&#1610; &#1571;&#1608; &#1573;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605;&#1610;. &#1575;&#1606;&#1602;&#1604;&#1575;&#1576;&#1610; &#1571;&#1608; &#1583;&#1610;&#1605;&#1602;&#1585;&#1575;&#1591;&#1610;. &#1579;&#1608;&#1585;&#1610; &#1571;&#1608; &#1573;&#1582;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1610;... &#1573;&#1604;&#1582;. &#1575;&#1604;&#1570;&#1606; &#1589;&#1575;&#1585;&#1578; &#1601;&#1602;&#1591; &#1573;&#1606;&#1587;&#1575;&#1606;&#1610; &#1571;&#1608; &#1581;&#1610;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606;&#1610;.
> 
> &#1604;&#1605; &#1575;&#1587;&#1575;&#1606;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1582;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606; &#1610;&#1608;&#1605;&#1575; &#1608;&#1604;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605;&#1610;&#1610;&#1606; &#1602;&#1591;&#1593;&#1575;&#1548; &#1604;&#1603;&#1606; &#1575;&#1606; &#1575;&#1601;&#1585;&#1581; &#1576;&#1602;&#1578;&#1604; &#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1576;&#1585;&#1610;&#1575;&#1569; &#1608;&#1575;&#1587;&#1575;&#1606;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1591;&#1594;&#1610;&#1575;&#1606; &#1576;&#1585;&#1590;&#1575; &#1608;&#1576;&#1593;&#1590; &#1575;&#1604;&#1603;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605; &#1548; &#1607;&#1584;&#1575; &#1607;&#1608; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1582;&#1601; &#1576;&#1593;&#1610;&#1606;&#1607; !
> 
> Egypt will prevail against Army and monarchy tyranny.



Its over 120 deaths now and Egyptians liberals are cheering for the Army. They are more of secular nationalists than liberal.
This will only weaken the coup more. Don't forget that its your money that is sponsoring this bloody coup.



BlueWarrior said:


> Damn moosh got banned can anyone post pictures or videos? Thanks



https://twitter.com/barq_news/status/367536794276855809/photo/1

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## Algeria

*Appointment of 19 Generals as Provincial Governors Raises Fears in Egypt*

CAIRO &#8212; Egypt&#8217;s new military-appointed government on Tuesday named a roster of generals as provincial governors, raising fears of a return to the authoritarianism of former President Hosni Mubarak.

Of the 25 provincial governors named, 19 are generals: 17 from the military and 2 from the police. One police general has become well known for his openly insubordinate refusal to protect supporters of Egypt&#8217;s first democratically elected president, Mohamed Morsi, an Islamist whose candidacy was advanced by the Muslim Brotherhood.

A military general appointee, Gov. Mahmoud Othman Ateeq of Sohag, a former deputy governor in Alexandria, was filmed in 2011 raising a gun at a demonstration of teachers, who can be heard begging for their lives.

Of the six civilians, two are judges known as Mubarak loyalists deeply hostile to the Islamists behind Mr. Morsi. In Giza, the second-largest province by population, the civilian governor has held the job since he was appointed by the military council that seized power after Mr. Mubarak. In Cairo, the capital and most populous province, the new governor, Galal Mostafa Saed, was a senior figure in Mr. Mubarak&#8217;s old governing party. Mr. Saed had governed a smaller province before he was thrown out during the 2011 revolution.

None of Mr. Morsi&#8217;s Islamist appointees &#8212; 11 of Egypt&#8217;s 27 governors &#8212; were kept on, but six of nine generals whom he had appointed to governorships retained those posts, although one was moved to Alexandria from the Red Sea region.

By naming so many generals, the new government installed by Gen. Abdul-Fattah el-Sisi also returned to one of Mr. Mubarak&#8217;s trademark tactics, using the governorships to cultivate the loyalty of top officers while extending the grip of his police state.

Prominent activists who had opposed both Mr. Mubarak and Mr. Morsi immediately denounced the appointments as a return of the old autocracy. &#8220;Sisi is Mubarak,&#8221; the activist Alaa Abd El Fattah wrote in a Twitter message echoed widely.

Even some founders of the petition drive that paved the way for Mr. Morsi&#8217;s ouster began for the first time to question the leaders they had helped bring to power. &#8220;Our reasons for revolting against the two regimes were the same, so it&#8217;s not right for governors to be appointed this way,&#8221; Hassan Shaheen, an organizer of the petition drive, known as Tamarrod, said, according to the state newspaper Al Ahram. &#8220;It&#8217;s not right to use figures in state institutions who were already proved incompetent or corrupt before the revolution.&#8221;

The new government offered little public explanation on Tuesday but signaled that tightening security was its top priority. &#8220;It was asserted that no acts will be allowed that would damage the state&#8217;s prestige or the security of the homeland and the citizens,&#8221; Al Ahram reported. It said Adli Mansour, the seldom-seen interim president appointed by the military, had &#8220;urged the governors to work hard on improving the security conditions.&#8221;

Mr. Morsi had pushed through a referendum on an Islamist-backed constitution that, against the advice of international experts to adopt elections, retained the presidential appointment of governors.

Mr. Morsi&#8217;s appointment of the 11 Islamist governors had added to the fear that Islamists were trying to monopolize power. He also aroused a special furor with his ill-considered selection of a governor in Luxor from the Islamist party founded by Gamaa al-Islamiya, which conducted a terrorist attack there that killed more than 60 people in 1997, before the Brotherhood renounced violence. That governor later withdrew his name.

Two governorships remained vacant Tuesday, pending new appointments.

The country&#8217;s new government appeared Tuesday to be rewarding one of the police generals, Gov. Salah el Din Zeyada of Minya Province, for his open refusal to curb violence against Mr. Morsi&#8217;s Islamist supporters.

Before the protests that preceded Mr. Morsi&#8217;s ouster, an association of police officers disseminated a video of General Zeyada vowing that no police officer would do anything to protect any Brotherhood office. &#8220;The headquarters of the Muslim Brotherhood will not be secured,&#8221; the general said in remarks widely cited by anti-Islamist activists as a green light to attack.

Some governors have little experience in their new provinces. Among the qualifications of Gen. Arabi Al Serwy to be governor of Suez, state news media reported: he had &#8220;visited Suez more than once during this past year, most recently in December 2012.&#8221; In the Nile Delta province of Sharqiya, the government named as deputy governor a police general, Sami Sidhom, who is notorious among political activists for his oversight of deadly crackdowns against dissent under both Mr. Mubarak and the generals who took power after him.

Malek Adly, a human rights advocate who has supported the military takeover to oust the Islamists, has said his wife was slapped by General Sidhom while the general&#8217;s forces were crushing a 2006 demonstration against Mr. Mubarak before his last rigged election.

Tuesday&#8217;s appointments included one woman as a deputy governor, a rarity in Egypt. Nadia Ahmed Abdo was named deputy governor of Beheira Province. Before Mr. Mubarak&#8217;s ouster, she was a prominent member of the governing party, a member of Parliament and a chairwoman of the state&#8217;s water company in Alexandria. Her latest appointment stirred a controversy in Alexandria because of the response to a water cutoff there shortly after her election to Parliament in 2010. The water company was closed that day, ignoring citizens&#8217; complaints, Al Ahram reported then.

***11 ministres are Mubarak guys, and 19 of the governors are military officers. 
This going to get ugly soon...

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## BlueWarrior

Algeria said:


> https://twitter.com/barq_news/status/367536794276855809/photo/1


Have they gone too far? What kind of weapons did the police used to take his brain out? Sorry bro I mean post videos and pictures like moosh used to. I can't read Arabic, got source or something to see images?


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## Naifov

Algeria said:


> Its over 120 deaths now and Egyptians liberals are cheering for the Army. They are more of secular nationalists than liberal.
> This will only weaken the coup more. *Don't forget that its your money that is sponsoring this bloody coup*.
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/barq_news/status/367536794276855809/photo/1



Never have and never will, The fcuking monarchs will pay the price heavily. I just can't see Egypt being ruled and dictated by monarchs. Believe me these scums are a shame on the concept of liberalism and secularism.

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## BlueWarrior

Algeria said:


> *Appointment of 19 Generals as Provincial Governors Raises Fears in Egypt*
> 
> CAIRO &#8212; Egypt&#8217;s new military-appointed government on Tuesday named a roster of generals as provincial governors, raising fears of a return to the authoritarianism of former President Hosni Mubarak.
> 
> Of the 25 provincial governors named, 19 are generals: 17 from the military and 2 from the police. One police general has become well known for his openly insubordinate refusal to protect supporters of Egypt&#8217;s first democratically elected president, Mohamed Morsi, an Islamist whose candidacy was advanced by the Muslim Brotherhood.
> 
> A military general appointee, Gov. Mahmoud Othman Ateeq of Sohag, a former deputy governor in Alexandria, was filmed in 2011 raising a gun at a demonstration of teachers, who can be heard begging for their lives.
> 
> Of the six civilians, two are judges known as Mubarak loyalists deeply hostile to the Islamists behind Mr. Morsi. In Giza, the second-largest province by population, the civilian governor has held the job since he was appointed by the military council that seized power after Mr. Mubarak. In Cairo, the capital and most populous province, the new governor, Galal Mostafa Saed, was a senior figure in Mr. Mubarak&#8217;s old governing party. Mr. Saed had governed a smaller province before he was thrown out during the 2011 revolution.
> 
> None of Mr. Morsi&#8217;s Islamist appointees &#8212; 11 of Egypt&#8217;s 27 governors &#8212; were kept on, but six of nine generals whom he had appointed to governorships retained those posts, although one was moved to Alexandria from the Red Sea region.
> 
> By naming so many generals, the new government installed by Gen. Abdul-Fattah el-Sisi also returned to one of Mr. Mubarak&#8217;s trademark tactics, using the governorships to cultivate the loyalty of top officers while extending the grip of his police state.
> 
> Prominent activists who had opposed both Mr. Mubarak and Mr. Morsi immediately denounced the appointments as a return of the old autocracy. &#8220;Sisi is Mubarak,&#8221; the activist Alaa Abd El Fattah wrote in a Twitter message echoed widely.
> 
> Even some founders of the petition drive that paved the way for Mr. Morsi&#8217;s ouster began for the first time to question the leaders they had helped bring to power. &#8220;Our reasons for revolting against the two regimes were the same, so it&#8217;s not right for governors to be appointed this way,&#8221; Hassan Shaheen, an organizer of the petition drive, known as Tamarrod, said, according to the state newspaper Al Ahram. &#8220;It&#8217;s not right to use figures in state institutions who were already proved incompetent or corrupt before the revolution.&#8221;
> 
> The new government offered little public explanation on Tuesday but signaled that tightening security was its top priority. &#8220;It was asserted that no acts will be allowed that would damage the state&#8217;s prestige or the security of the homeland and the citizens,&#8221; Al Ahram reported. It said Adli Mansour, the seldom-seen interim president appointed by the military, had &#8220;urged the governors to work hard on improving the security conditions.&#8221;
> 
> Mr. Morsi had pushed through a referendum on an Islamist-backed constitution that, against the advice of international experts to adopt elections, retained the presidential appointment of governors.
> 
> Mr. Morsi&#8217;s appointment of the 11 Islamist governors had added to the fear that Islamists were trying to monopolize power. He also aroused a special furor with his ill-considered selection of a governor in Luxor from the Islamist party founded by Gamaa al-Islamiya, which conducted a terrorist attack there that killed more than 60 people in 1997, before the Brotherhood renounced violence. That governor later withdrew his name.
> 
> Two governorships remained vacant Tuesday, pending new appointments.
> 
> The country&#8217;s new government appeared Tuesday to be rewarding one of the police generals, Gov. Salah el Din Zeyada of Minya Province, for his open refusal to curb violence against Mr. Morsi&#8217;s Islamist supporters.
> 
> Before the protests that preceded Mr. Morsi&#8217;s ouster, an association of police officers disseminated a video of General Zeyada vowing that no police officer would do anything to protect any Brotherhood office. &#8220;The headquarters of the Muslim Brotherhood will not be secured,&#8221; the general said in remarks widely cited by anti-Islamist activists as a green light to attack.
> 
> Some governors have little experience in their new provinces. Among the qualifications of Gen. Arabi Al Serwy to be governor of Suez, state news media reported: he had &#8220;visited Suez more than once during this past year, most recently in December 2012.&#8221; In the Nile Delta province of Sharqiya, the government named as deputy governor a police general, Sami Sidhom, who is notorious among political activists for his oversight of deadly crackdowns against dissent under both Mr. Mubarak and the generals who took power after him.
> 
> Malek Adly, a human rights advocate who has supported the military takeover to oust the Islamists, has said his wife was slapped by General Sidhom while the general&#8217;s forces were crushing a 2006 demonstration against Mr. Mubarak before his last rigged election.
> 
> Tuesday&#8217;s appointments included one woman as a deputy governor, a rarity in Egypt. Nadia Ahmed Abdo was named deputy governor of Beheira Province. Before Mr. Mubarak&#8217;s ouster, she was a prominent member of the governing party, a member of Parliament and a chairwoman of the state&#8217;s water company in Alexandria. Her latest appointment stirred a controversy in Alexandria because of the response to a water cutoff there shortly after her election to Parliament in 2010. The water company was closed that day, ignoring citizens&#8217; complaints, Al Ahram reported then.
> 
> ***11 ministres are Mubarak guys, and 19 of the governors are military officers.
> This going to get ugly soon...


This is interesting, the other post I read about the military is divided, could it be top ranking officers who symapthize Morsi and it may be the reason why they had replaced generals to prevent further division perhaps?


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## agentny17

Egyptian security forces have cleared one of the 2 Muslim brotherhood sits-in and on their way to clear the other one!! Forces fired warning shots, and used tear gas to clear the sit-in that was ordered to be cleared by the government. Clearing the sit-in was shown live on TV, and LOTS of weapons and ammunition were found with the "protesters" and are being shown live on TV at the moment. It was reported that 4 security officers were killed, and and 5 were injured but these numbers have not been confirmed yet!! The Muslim brotherhood claims that a lot of its members have been killed in the second sit-in that hasn't been cleared yet as of now!!!!! Nothing has not been confirmed it!! Reports that some Muslim brotherhood supporters have started attacking churches in upper Egypt in protest to clearing the sits-in. 

My comment: Time for Egypt to kick some terrorists a$$es.



BlueWarrior said:


> This is interesting, the other post I read about the military is divided, could it be top ranking officers who symapthize Morsi and it may be the reason why they had replaced generals to prevent further division perhaps?


Neither the army, nor the the country is divided!! The whole country is against the Muslim Brotherhood!!


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## Tanja

FNOTW: Army clearing protest camps in Egypt

*Egyptian security forces have cleared two protest camps occupied by supporters of the ousted President Mohamed Morsi. At least 15 people are reported to have been killed in the clashes.*


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## Dr. Strangelove

R.I.P..............

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## BlueWarrior

agentny17 said:


> has not been confirmed it!! Reports that some Muslim brotherhood supporters have started attacking
> 
> 
> Neither the army, nor the the country is divided!! The whole country is against the Muslim Brotherhood!!


Then how come reports from Twitter is different than what you say? Verified sources from anyone who is there is more trusted but why are you writing in your own word?


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Tanja said:


> FNOTW: Army clearing protest camps in Egypt
> 
> *Egyptian security forces have cleared two protest camps occupied by supporters of the ousted President Mohamed Morsi. At least 15 people are reported to have been killed in the clashes.*


there are death from both sides and the brotherhood supporters are armed

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## agentny17

BlueWarrior said:


> Then how come reports from *Twitter *is different than what you say? Verified sources from anyone who is there is more trusted but why are you writing in your own word? Anyway, gotta go peace out.


Twitter is not a source!! I can get you other "reports" from twitter that says other wise!! You have to be careful about the news that comes from Egypt; lots of rumors and propaganda!!


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## Naifov

agentny17 said:


> Twitter is not a source!! I can get you other "reports" from twitter that says other wise!! You have to be careful about the news that comes from Egypt; lots of rumors and propaganda!!



Yes and your previous reply shows a great deal of hypocrisy and propaganda, claiming that they were holding weapons and calling them as terrorists is exactly what assad thugs are doing. Sisi must understand that violence and killing innocent people will not remove his coup and will not make others forget mursi, Syria and Libya are obvious examples. 


Be anti Ikhwan as you wish, but calling others as terrorists and kelling them on that regards is absurd !

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## Hussein

Naifov said:


> Yes and your previous reply shows a great deal of hypocrisy and propaganda, claiming that they were holding weapons and calling them as terrorists is exactly what assad thugs are doing. Sisi must understand that violence and killing innocent people will not remove his coup and will not make others forget mursi, Syria and Libya are obvious examples.
> 
> 
> Be anti Ikhwan as you wish, but calling others as terrorists and kelling them on that regards is absurd !



you like or not, people using weapons against security/police forces of the country
are not peaceful but terrorists (when country is living under democracy rules and are not killed when the protest peacefully)

if in USA some group takes weapons to shoot in the strikes, i don't think the security there will give kisses to these guys

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## agentny17

Naifov said:


> Yes and your previous reply shows a great deal of hypocrisy and propaganda, claiming that they were holding weapons and calling them as terrorists is exactly what assad thugs are doing. Sisi must understand that violence and killing innocent people will not remove his coup and will not make others forget mursi, Syria and Libya are obvious examples.
> 
> 
> Be anti Ikhwan as you wish, but calling others as terrorists and kelling them on that regards is absurd !


So they weren't holding weapons, and they are not terrorists ? Is that what you are trying to say ?!!


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## BlueWarrior

The weapons used by police is definitely lethal.


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## agentny17

BlueWarrior said:


> The weapons used by police is definitely lethal.


We are still trying to develop peaceful weapons that would help us in our wars and fights against terrorists and criminals!! The next time they shot at security personnels, we will make sure we give them the right cheek!!


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## hussain0216

The egyptian deep state strikes again,

Pathetic just pathetic, the murder and slaughter of innocent protesters

The muslim brotherhood is fighting for egypt itself the very future of its people, they need to fight on and not fall in in the face of liberal military brutality

Even if they are attacked and slaughtered by the kaffirs today they need to keep going and spread peacefull civil disobedience across egypt. The military and the liberals will come after them regardless if they stay at home or not.

time is on their side the same obstacles that morsi faced i.e, no jobs, subsidies, economy etc the new regime is facing and if the the brotherhood keeps pushing and keeps fighting 

Then the military regime will always be fake and lack legitimiacy & wont be able to fix any issues or problems it is only a matter of time before the problems of egypt hang like a sword above its head.


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## agentny17

hussain0216 said:


> The egyptian deep state strikes again,
> 
> Pathetic just pathetic, the murder and slaughter of innocent protesters
> 
> The muslim brotherhood is fighting for egypt itself the very future of its people, they need to fight on and not fall in in the face of liberal military brutality
> 
> Even if they are attacked and slaughtered by the kaffirs today they need to keep going and spread peacefull civil disobedience across egypt. The military and the liberals will come after them regardless if they stay at home or not.
> 
> time is on their side the same obstacles that morsi faced i.e, no jobs, subsidies, economy etc the new regime is facing and if the the brotherhood keeps pushing and keeps fighting
> 
> Then the military regime will always be fake and lack legitimiacy & wont be able to fix any issues or problems it is only a matter of time before the problems of egypt hang like a sword above its head.



You guys need to step up your games a bit!! How come you let such an unprofessional, and poor trained security forces like the Egyptian police clear your not so peaceful sit-in in like 5 mins ?!! You guys are a disgrace to terrorism!! Osama is not very proud!


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## hussain0216

Its vital that the Muslim Brotherhood conducts civil disobedience protests, sit ins, strikes, boycotts an extensive media & information campaign across egypt indefinetly

Let the military show their true face trying to break the resolve of the protesters, their actions will go down in egyptian history


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## PeaceGen

I'd just like to say I don't support this crackdown of the Egyptian security forces at all.

*especially muslim fundamentalists (and extremists) have a right to peaceful outdoor demonstrations, for as long as they want!. how else are you going to motivate them to practice peaceful politics instead of violent resistance??*


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## hussain0216

Man, you dont know how luck you are dealing with the Muslim Brotherhood who are having sit ins and protests etc.

These people are peacefull and conservative, decent muslims.



If you were dealing with the TTP, or Let or the Taliban they would have had suicide bombers and car bombers and special fighter teams target you across your country.

Imagine what a suicide bomber or a car bomber could have done in Tahire Square




You are lucky that the Muslim brotherhood is honest and decent & hasent resorted to this regardless of hundreads of deaths at the hands of the military

Never the less they can break the egytian military and state, on going protests across egypt, flash strikes, information spread across the world to muslims and non muslims

Will not only keep the egyptian military and regime illigitimate but the pressure of trying to fix egypt without the support of the Muslim brotherhood who represent a significant portion of egypt will break them.


You have made the muslim brotherhood into Martyrs


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## BlueWarrior

agentny17 said:


> We are still trying to develop peaceful weapons that would help us in our wars and fights against terrorists and criminals!! The next time they shot at security personnels, we will make sure we give them the right cheek!!


Sorry bro, i'm going to have to disagree with you Egyptians should not support killing. i just found something. Look at Twitter, it's flooded with post on the scene. Reporters are unable to report what is going on because the army had put in restrictions, claimed what is happening now is much worse than before because the use of gas and lethal weapons and women and children were been killed. Here is what I found

















Check this Ayman guy which I found he is an Egyptian someone said on Twitter to go on his facebook https://www.facebook.com/media/set/...41828.593277937&type=1&__user=100005871542271

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## hussain0216

Exactly,,,,

The Muslim brotherhood have done nothing.

You want to see bombing campaigns then look at Iraq, look at pakistan or Afghanistan.

When these liberal scums accuse the Muslim brotherhood of being terrorists they look stupid beyond beleif




The muslim brotherhood should be supported and commended for having protests and sit ins all the liberal idiots are doing is forcing them towards violence, killing hundreds of innocent people and then their familes and friends will want to take revenge

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## hussain0216

Sky News Newsdesk &#10004; @SkyNewsBreak 

Sky Correspondent: Egypt violence is not a crowd clearing operation, it is a major military assault largely on unarmed civilians
9:24 AM - 14 Aug 2013

9.50am BST

Patrick Kingsley reports sustained gunfire


Our Egypt correspondent Patrick Kingsley is at the scene and has sent this dispatch:


Access to the two besieged sit-ins is hard to come by. The army has blocked off routes to west Cairo's Nahda, which has apparently been cleared.

Journalists trying to access Rabaa al-Adawiya in east Cairo have come under fire or been detained.

I was just in Mostafa Mahmoud Sq, a new site in north-west Cairo, where a few hundred pro-Morsi protesters are trying to set up a third camp - as they threatened to do if their other camps were attacked.

When I arrived, protesters had burnt out a riot police truck and were building walls from ripped-up paving stones and fencing.

After two or three minutes security forces arrived and started firing teargas. Sustained gunfire was heard.

Elsewhere in Cairo, pro-Morsi supporters are matching to Rabaa from various points in the city - while there are numerous reports of violence spreading to various locations across the country, including the northern port of Alexandria

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/14/egypt-clear-cairo-sitins-live

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## BlueWarrior

hussain0216 said:


> Sky News Newsdesk &#10004; @SkyNewsBreak
> 
> Sky Correspondent: Egypt violence is not a crowd clearing operation, it is a major military assault largely on unarmed civilians
> 9:24 AM - 14 Aug 2013
> 
> 9.50am BST
> 
> Patrick Kingsley reports sustained gunfire
> 
> 
> Our Egypt correspondent Patrick Kingsley is at the scene and has sent this dispatch:
> 
> 
> Access to the two besieged sit-ins is hard to come by. The army has blocked off routes to west Cairo's Nahda, which has apparently been cleared
> 
> Journalists trying to access Rabaa al-Adawiya in east Cairo have come under fire or been detained.
> 
> I was just in Mostafa Mahmoud Sq, a new site in north-west Cairo, where a few hundred pro-Morsi protesters are trying to set up a third camp - as they threatened to do if their other camps were attacked.
> 
> When I arrived, protesters had burnt out a riot police truck and were building walls from ripped-up paving stones and fencing.
> 
> After two or three minutes security forces arrived and started firing teargas. Sustained gunfire was heard.
> 
> Elsewhere in Cairo, pro-Morsi supporters are matching to Rabaa from various points in the city - while there are numerous reports of violence spreading to various locations across the country, including the northern port of Alexandria
> 
> Egyptian security forces clear Morsi protests - live | World news | theguardian.com


Polices is fuken sick

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## Frogman

Those who want to leave get to leave. 15 approximately dead 3 of them security forces and no women or children dead. The whole thing is being broadcast live on air.

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## agentny17

Egyptian intelligence just said that the Muslim Brotherhood members have received orders to attack police stations, prisons, and churches.

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## agentny17

6 churches have been burnt so far and 4 police stations all across Egypt.

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## hussain0216

Well done Egypt, 

Your actions are forcing people to be more violent because they have no other option when even peacefull demostrations and sit ins are attacked

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## hussain0216

10.51am BST

Reports that journalists are being shot at at Rabaa protest


This stream of tweets is from Egyptian-American activist Mohamed Soltan who has been at the Rabaa encampment for a number of hours.

He reports that journalists on stage and those in the crowd have been shot at and his feed includes some further graphic photos from the scene which we have not included here.

We are trying to contact him in order to verify his reports.

10.13am BST


Some horrifyingly detailed tweets from the Sky News correspondent Tom Rayner who is in Rabaa




Tom Rayner @RaynerSkyNews 

Inside Rabaa now - scenes of utter chaos and huge numbers of dead. Field hospitals full of bodies and extreme injuries
9:58 AM - 14 Aug 2013 


Tom Rayner @RaynerSkyNews 

Inside mosque itself thousands of women & children are cowering. I saw at least two dead babies, not from gunshots but heat & lack of water
10:00 AM - 14 Aug 2013 

Tom Rayner @RaynerSkyNews 

Live fire from snipers means people are having to run crouched low across a street to get to one of the hospital entrances
10:01 AM - 14 Aug 2013 


Sophia Jones @Sophia_MJones 

Police in Mohandiseen open fired from armored vans on unarmed bystanders & protesters. Hundreds ran in panic, tripping, screaming. (1/2)
9:29 AM - 14 Aug 2013


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## agentny17

Video taken by UAV showing Muslim Brotherhood terrorists attacking security forces

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## hussain0216

Of course they should just let themselves be shot and killed in peace

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## Jihad_

This murderous terrorist regime needs to be taken down!

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## Frogman

hussain0216 said:


> Of course they should just let themselves be shot and killed in peace



I thought you said they were peaceful protesters....



Jihad_ said:


> This murderous terrorist regime needs to be taken down!



Stick to Thailand, boyoo.

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## Hussein

hussain0216 said:


> Well done Egypt,
> 
> Your actions are forcing people to be more violent because they have no other option when even peacefull demostrations and sit ins are attacked


they have no other option than burning churchs ???

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## Jihad_

Frogman said:


> Stick to Thailand, boyoo.



Stick to Britain, boyoo.


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## hussain0216

They are human, they have a right to defend themselves and fight back

The brutal egyptian regime is intent on destruction and if peacefull demonstrations and sit ins are attacked then what option does the M.S have but to fight back.

Personally I will tell them not to, of course some people will want revenge their family and friends have been gunned downed and killed by the egyptian military.

But they have time on their side, all this is doing is making the egyptian military and egyptian regime into a monster, they are killing journalists so pictures dont get out but this is the 21st century pictures will be beamed across the world


The muslim brotherhood needs to take the chance remain peacefull as possible, and conduct more sit ins, more protests, more interviews across egypt, the message and pictures need to be spread everywhere in the world. people need to talk and mosques need to give sermons against the egyptian state

The combined effort will bring down the egyptian military and fake government

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## Jihad_

Appointment of 19 Generals as Provincial Governors Raises Fears in Egypt




> Of the 25 provincial governors named, 19 are generals: 17 from the military and 2 from the police.



Down with this terrorist militairy dictatorship!

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## Frogman

Jihad_ said:


> Stick to Britain, boyoo.



Are you Egyptian? thought not.
Are you British? thought not.

You can say pretty much whatever you want but because you have no idea about Egypt (because you're a bandwagoner) you should stop short of calling for a regime to fall. Shouldn't you be in Syria or are you just a keyboard Mujahid?

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## hussain0216

1028: 
People have reportedly taken to the streets elsewhere in Cairo and across Egypt against the clearing of the protest camps. Here, pro-Morsi supporters chant slogans against Defence Minister Abdul Fattah al-Sisi in the Mohandessin district of Cairo

1016: Ahmed Fathy, Alexandria emails: What is happening around here is far from imagination. They cut the main three streets in Alexandria and some cars have been burnt. Demonstrations in Alexandria come from everywhere, supporting Morsi and condemning what is happening in Cairo.

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## Jihad_

Frogman said:


> Are you Egyptian? thought not.
> Are you British? thought not.
> 
> You can say pretty much whatever you want but because you have no idea about Egypt (because you're a bandwagoner) you should stop short of calling for a regime to fall. Shouldn't you be in Syria or are you just a keyboard Mujahid?



The hell with your nationalistic bullcrap. U take it that far that u support a brutal repressive militairy dictatorship.


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## agentny17

Wael Nawara &#8207;@WaelNawara 22m
Senior journalist admitted International reporters pressured to report events of #Egypt in a way favorable to #MB (I have 6 witnesses)
Anyone with 2-day media training can notice the Int'l media manipulations & #MB bias -but until I got an admission,I still doubted my senses
Several Egyptian journalists are appeasing Int'l media powerhouses by reporting cooked lies or at best injecting lies then saying


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## Frogman

Jihad_ said:


> The hell with your nationalistic bullcrap. U take it that far that u support a brutal repressive militairy dictatorship.



And you don't even read my comments. I didn't support the clearing the protests, by the way nor do I support military rule.

So why aren't you in Syria?


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## BlueWarrior

This is fuken sick look at the twitter pictures reporters have taken. Egypt policemen tearing the country apart

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## hussain0216

11.00am BST

Distressing picture: scores reported dead


This tweet is from Alaistair Beach - the Independent newspaper's reporter. It reports to show 42 dead from the Rabaa field hospital morgue.

The numbers of those dead are at the same level as those reported earlier by AP. 


Egyptian security forces clear Morsi protests - live | World news | theguardian.com


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## agentny17

BlueWarrior said:


> This is fuken sick look at the twitter pictures reporters have taken. Egypt policemen tearing the country apart


Have you seen what the other side reports ?!! Sicking pictures and videos as well!!


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## Jihad_

Frogman said:


> So why aren't you in Syria?



I don't discuss militairy affairs with strangers, especially those who live in a terrorist nation.


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

The last stance of people changing more and more in favoure of MB..Sellouts Junta losing ground and support day by day..
That public survey done last week by Egypt research Center..Now, it moves gradually toward 80% 



agentny17 said:


> Egyptian intelligence just said that the Muslim Brotherhood members have received orders to attack police stations, prisons, and churches.



werent you sick of lying and slandering yet..Who believe you and your scum media..?? even you donnt believe in them but just trying pumb probaganda like Assadist liars..

any one who has brain as much as a bird could realize and foresee that these Junta scums have no future in Egypt in the long term..Either they will be judged and later sentenced or they will flee to abroad..

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## hussain0216

18 new provincial governors appointed yesterday - half of them retired generals. Just a clue, if the shooting this morning doesn't already make it obvious enough.

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## Frogman

Jihad_ said:


> I don't discuss militairy affairs with strangers, especially those who live in a terrorist nation.



Military matters, you are hilarious. Im sure the Syrian fighters value your contribution as a keyboard Mujahid. 



> The last stance of people changing more and more in favoure of MB..Sellouts Junta losing ground and support day by day..
> That public survey done last week by Egypt research Center..Now, it moves gradually toward 80%



A useless pie chart. 
Whats the number of people polled? 
Where across the country was the poll taken?
How many sampling errors and non-sampling errors occurred?
What and how were the questions asked?
Is the NGO reliable? (since Egypt research center doesn't actually exist).

Polls are usually unrepresentative of the entire population.



> 18 new provincial governors appointed yesterday - half of them retired generals. Just a clue, if the shooting this morning doesn't already make it obvious enough.



The best governor of Alexandria from (in the Mubarak era) 1996-2006 was a former military general, this goes for a lot of other governates. There's large opposition to these appointments (not all of them).

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## agentny17

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> The last stance of people changing more and more in favoure of MB..Sellouts Junta losing ground and support day by day..
> That public survey done last week by Egypt research Center..Now, it moves gradually toward 80%
> 
> 
> 
> werent you sick of lying and slandering yet..Who believe you and your scum media..?? even you donnt believe in them but just trying pumb probaganda like Assadist liars..
> 
> any one who has brain as much as a bird could realize and foresee that these Junta scums have no future in Egypt in the long term..Either they will be judged and later sentenced or they will flee to abroad..



Stick to your country, if you have no idea what you talking about!!

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## hussain0216

Frogman said:


> Military matters, you are hilarious. Im sure the Syrian fighters value your contribution as a keyboard Mujahid.
> 
> 
> 
> A useless pie chart.
> Whats the number of people polled?
> Where across the country was the poll taken?
> How many sampling errors and non-sampling errors occurred?
> What and how were the questions asked?
> Is the NGO reliable? (since Egypt research center doesn't actually exist).
> 
> Polls are usually unrepresentative of the entire population.





ha ha oh so now you want details about samples, and NGO's & where the poll was taken, but when Tamarod and liberals threw around figures of 30 million signatures collected it was all ok and enough to support a military coup of a elected government

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## Jihad_

agentny17 said:


> Stick to your country, if you have no idea what you talking about!!



You are getting owned and don't know what to say. Obvious is obvious.

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## Frogman

hussain0216 said:


> ha ha oh so now you want details about samples, and NGO's & where the poll was taken, but when Tamarod and liberals threw around figures of 30 million signatures collected it was all ok and enough to support a military coup of a elected government



Ones a petition the other is a poll.


----------



## The SiLent crY

BlueWarrior said:


> This is fuken sick look at the twitter pictures reporters have taken. Egypt policemen tearing the country apart



I smell a civil war or something like that which is going to be supported by US , West and their puppet states such as Saudi Arabia and Qatar in favor of Israel .

The strongest Arab country is going to be destroyed in order not to be a danger for Israel and US interests in region . This is the way they behave Muslim countries when they're in the right path .

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## agentny17

Peaceful Brotherhood 
[video]https://www.youtube.com/embed/6l7XeYdELNA[/video]



Jihad_ said:


> You are getting owned and don't know what to say. Obvious is obvious.


Very good... Now stick to your country ya Kos Omak

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## Shapur Zol Aktaf

S00R3NA said:


> I smell a civil war or something like that which is going to be supported by US , West and their puppet states such as Saudi Arabia and Qatar in favor of Israel .
> 
> The strongest Arab country is going to be destroyed in order not to be a danger for Israel and US interests in region . This is the way they behave Muslim countries when they're in the right path .


I don't like MB, however I think they are mad and getting anti-American and anti-Saudi now..because some of them are killed by the army.


----------



## hussain0216

Frogman said:


> Ones a petition the other is a poll.



Bull triple shyte


----------



## hussain0216

S00R3NA said:


> I smell a civil war or something like that which is going to be supported by US , West and their puppet states such as Saudi Arabia and Qatar in favor of Israel .
> 
> The strongest Arab country is going to be destroyed in order not to be a danger for Israel and US interests in region . This is the way they behave Muslim countries when they're in the right path .



The egyptian army WAS respected, they had similarities with the Pakistani military as they were proffesional but short on funds due to the economy to buy big ticket items but with the support of the public and some planning a force to reckon with.

Now they are just stooges and animosity against them is building 

They will fall and have to be rebuilt with a removal of all old regime generals, otherwise they will be a risk to democracy and egypt



S00R3NA said:


> I smell a civil war or something like that which is going to be supported by US , West and their puppet states such as Saudi Arabia and Qatar in favor of Israel .
> 
> The strongest Arab country is going to be destroyed in order not to be a danger for Israel and US interests in region . This is the way they behave Muslim countries when they're in the right path .



The egyptian army WAS respected, they had similarities with the Pakistani military as they were proffesional but short on funds due to the economy to buy big ticket items but with the support of the public and some planning a force to reckon with.

Now they are just stooges and animosity against them is building 

They will fall and have to be rebuilt with a removal of all old regime generals, otherwise they will be a risk to democracy and egypt

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## Ceylal

Shapur Zol Aktaf said:


> I *don't like MB*, however I think they are mad and getting anti-American and anti-Saudi now..because some of them are killed by the army.



These pictures say a lot...they came to fight and got a bloody nose. The response is harsh, but a least, the Egyptians are getting the disease boxed and quaranteened.

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## Ceylal

hussain0216 said:


> Well done Egypt,
> 
> Your actions are forcing people to be more violent because they have no other option when even *peacefull* demostrations and sit ins are attacked


peaceful? 
Then explain these brick walls...?


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## Ceylal

hussain0216 said:


> Let the military show their true face trying to break the resolve of the protesters,* their actions will go down in egyptia*n history



That what the military does, when you call them...That what the Egyptians wanted and needed their army to clear the bearded vermines from their streets.
History will see them as the *SAVIORS* of modern Egypt and the MMB's as *her graves diggers*


----------



## XENOHARMONIA DRAGON

majority arab is stupid & dumb..yes........more blood .............of innocent is come....zionist plan is success

arab will fall & erased from earth............civil war is coming.............This Your Destiny......because you leave the path of true pure islam

* Auf bin Malik also consulted about Qiyamah with Rasulullah, who said: "Count six things before the advent of Qiyamah: (1) my death; (2) the conquest of Jerusalem; (3) mass deaths among you people, just as when sheep die in large numbers during an epidemic; (4) abundance of wealth to such an extent that if a person were to be given a hundred dinars he will still not be satisfied; (5) general anarchy and bloodshed, that no Arab household will be spared from it; (6) then a life of peace as a result of a peace agreement between you and the Banil Asfaar [Romans, Christians] which they will break and attack you with a force consisting of eighty flags and under each flag will be an army of 12,000 men."*

Zainab bint Jahsh, the wife of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him), reported that one day Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came out in a state of excitement with his face quite red. And he was saying: There is no god but Allah; there is a destruction in store for Arabia beciuse of the turmoil which is near at hand as the barrier of Gog and Magog has been opened like it, and he (in order to explain it) made a ring with the help o his thumb and forefinger. I said: Allah's Messenger, would we be destroyed despite the fact that there would be pious people amongst us? He said: Yes, when the evil would predominate. 

Abdullah bin Amr reported that the messenger of Allah said: "There will come a calamity which will wipe out the Arabs. Their slain will be in hell. The tongue will be more severe in this than the blow of the sword." (Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah) 

Allah's Messenger (saas) said: "The Harj (will increase)." They asked, "What is the Harj?" He replied, "(It is) killing (murdering), (it is) murdering (killing)."(Bukhari)

Against: &#8216;There will be civil strife which will render people deaf, dumb and blind regarding what is right. Those who contemplate it will be drawn by it, and giving rein to the tongue during it will be like smiting with the sword.&#8217; (Abu Dawud)


*Arab Revolt 2.0 &#8211; 7 Days and 7 Years*

Two scholars of Islam provided foresight about the events which led to the Arab Revolt 2.0.

Sheikh Imran Hosein, one of the world&#8217;s most influential Muslim scholars based in Trinidad, in 2003 provided his perspective on how an Arab Revolt may occur and what could occur in the aftermath.

Sheikh Nazim al-Haqqani, one of the world&#8217;s most influential Muslim scholars and the leader of the Sufi Naqshbandi-Haqqani Order based in Cyprus, gave his perspective on events a week before the overthrow of President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt on 8 Rabi al-Awwal 1432 / 11 February 2011.

SH. IMRAN HOSEIN

Excerpts from &#8216;Beyond 911&#8217;

youtube watch?v=ccludIOHySo

(The following aims and steps have been derived by Ihsanic Intelligence (I-I)

Aim: To establish Israel as the world&#8217;s ruling state using deception

Step 1: Israel to brutally oppress the Palestinians

Step 2: Allow an independent pan-Arab Arabic news channel to cover atrocities against Arabs and Muslims

Step 3: Get Arabs to a boiling point

Step 4: Wrath of Arabs leads to revolt against rulers

Step 5: New Arab governments will lead to Israel&#8217;s claim of direct threat

Step 6: Israel to launch war to demonstrate global military pre-eminence

Result: As world cowers, Israel establishes itself as ruling state of the world

Aim: To establish Israel as the world&#8217;s ruling state using deception

&#8216;But Israel has a PhD in deception because it&#8217;s Dajjal at the back of this &#8211; the mastermind. And Israel would not want to wage a big war and appear to the world a naked, clearly as an aggressor. No, that&#8217;s not deception. Israel has to wage a big war and make it appear as though she&#8217;s only defending herself. The only Muslim I know of who has had the capacity to penetrate the deception that has been going on all these years &#8211; the only one I know of was a man who did not go to Al-Azhar University &#8211; his name was Malcolm X. He&#8217;s the only man I know of who had that eye with which to see clearly recognize the strategy of deception &#8211; read Malcolm X. How is Israel going to launch this big war and yet get away from being perceived by the whole of humanity as the aggressor, blatant aggression? You have to come up with a good strategy.

Step 1: Israel to brutally oppress the Palestinians

The strategy is this &#8211; Ariel Sharon goes into Masjid al-Aqsa with a thousand Israel military with him &#8211; with their shoes on &#8211; with the full knowledge that this calculated act of extreme provocation must have a fiery response. As the flames of the new intifadha emerge, you must keep it burning by committing upon the Palestinian people more and more atrocities that drive them into greater and greater rage. This is planning, this is strategy, this is not happening by accident.

Step 2: Allow an independent pan-Arab Arabic news channel to cover atrocities against Arabs and Muslims

As Israel unleashes this barbaric oppression upon the Palestinian people, you must have a television station which you plant amongst them which shall cover this that your Egyptian television would not cover, and your Jordanian government would not allow on Jordanian television, so you create something called Al-Jazeera. And the Arab masses believe Al-Jazeera is their station, this is the only place in the world you can get authentic information, Al-Jazeera.

Step 3: Get Arabs to a boiling point

So now Al-Jazeera is now used to portray all the atrocities and so around the Arab world, the masses only need to tune into Al-Jazeera and they know what&#8217;s happening. So the Arab masses become more angry.

(And then)

Step 4: Wrath of Arabs leads to revolt against rulers

An impending scenario, like the domino effect, in which governments around the Islamic world, they will claim, are going to fall. And &#8216;the whole of Islam is now rising up now&#8217; and one-eyed Muslims are obviously going to believe it. &#8216;The whole of Islam is now going to rise up and all these governments are going to be swept away and authentic governments representing the masses will now emerge.&#8217;

Step 5: New Arab governments will lead to Israel&#8217;s claim of direct threat

&#8216;Therefore, the Jews are going to have their throats cut. This is going to be the most dangerous moment in the entire life of the world of Jews&#8217; &#8211; indeed, they will portray it. &#8216;If we don&#8217;t do don&#8217;t do something, we will all be slaughtered by these Muslim fanatics.&#8217; I will tell you this will be drama worthy of Hollywood &#8211; when it comes. They must be hating me now for revealing the truth. It is in this scenario, that Israel will say we have to do something. &#8216;If we sit here and do nothing, the state of Israel will be destroyed and the Jews will all be slaughtered. What can we do?&#8217;

Step 6: Israel to launch war to demonstrate global military pre-eminence

They call it a pre-emptive strike &#8211; but it won&#8217;t be a pre-emptive strike &#8211; it will be the most dazzling display of the magnificent application of state of the art military technology that will even leave Uncle Sam in the backyard. A war like Uncle Sam has never seen and could never wage &#8211; that is what Israel is going to wage. Do they have the technology? I believe they have technology even Uncle Sam does not have. It will be a lightening strike.

Result: As world cowers, Israel establishes itself as ruling state of the world

Israel has to put on this magnificent display of military power and state of the art technology beyond anything the world has ever known in order for Israel to impress upon mankind the validity of its credentials that it is now going to become the new ruling state in the world. Before Fahd could even blink, the Israelis have taken over the Saudi oil fields, and the Iraqi and Kuwaiti oilfields. The United State would, of course, make some noise and Britain will make some noise but will they send troops? No, of course, not. The United Nations Security Council is now going to be used by the rest of the world, particularly Uncle Europe and Uncle Japan and the rest of the world, they will take the United Nations and seek to use the United Nations to do something about this. Collective action &#8211; to force it Israel to withdraw because if Israel does not withdraw, Europe is going to be choked, Japan is going to be choked.
ihsanic-intelligence

where is now the salafi/wahabbi party...........the khawarij.............heh they betrayed the MB.......haha
Arab Lost Zionist is win................
The Future Of Islam is in the hand of Non Arab Muslim...........
Good Bye Arab.................Sayonara.............Egypt & Syria Will Fall And Destroyed Into Ash............


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## Ceylal

BlueWarrior said:


> *Damn moosh got banned*. Can anyone post pictures or videos? Thanks.


 True, the modo have tendancy to go overboard. Most of the time, they never read what was written by the banned...They ban, because its reported...
I never agreed with any of his replies, but I like to see his side.

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## pkuser2k12

*'War zone': Scores feared dead in Cairo crackdown, protests spreading​*




*A protester lies on the ground as Egyptian security forces disperse supporters of Egypt's ousted president Mohamed Morsi in a huge camp in Cairo's Al-Nahda square on August 14, 2013 (AFP Photo / Engy Imad)*



*
Muslim Brotherhood spokesman Gehad El-Haddad claimed that as many as 2,000 people had been killed and 10,000 injured in the police operation. *



* Gehad El-Haddad @gelhaddad
*
8 hrs of mass killings & not single sane person in Egypt or in world 2 stop this !! Over 2000 killed & over 10,000 injured & world watches
4:50 &#1087;&#1086;&#1089;&#1083;&#1077; &#1087;&#1086;&#1083;&#1091;&#1076;&#1085;&#1103; - 14 &#1072;&#1074;&#1075;&#1091;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072; 2013




Protesters are accusing the military of ordering snipers to shoot at them from the rooftops of buildings surrounding the sit-in camps.



* Jamal Elshayyal &#1580;&#1605;&#1575;&#1604; @jamalsNews*

Photo shows snipers firing rom an Intelligence Agency building at #Rabaa pic.twitter.com/YYaKcOcAB3 #Egypt #AntiCoup
10:31 &#1091;&#1090;&#1088;&#1072; - 14 &#1072;&#1074;&#1075;&#1091;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072; 2013 









* RIP QuSad @liberty4Libya*

Photo of dead after attack by military junta on pro-legitimacy sit-in at Rabaa Adawya in #Cairo #Egypt pic.twitter.com/0vtUz6hlYp
10:55 &#1091;&#1090;&#1088;&#1072; - 14 &#1072;&#1074;&#1075;&#1091;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072; 2013 









*Egyptian police on Wednesday morning have sent in armored bulldozers to break up the protest outside Rabaa al-Adawiya in eastern Cairo, where one of the Muslim Brotherhood camps is located. Police also broke up a second protest site outside the Cairo University campus in Giza in the city's west.

Security troops used tear gas against protesters, and there were also reports of intensive gunfire in the area. *






*Supporters of Egypt's ousted president Mohamed Morsi and members of the Muslim Brotherhood run from tear gas smoke shot by police to disperse a pro-Morsi camp, on August 14, 2013 in Cairo (AFP Photo / Khaled Desouki) *
*



&#8220;It is nasty inside, they are destroying our tents. We can't breathe inside and many people are in hospital,&#8221;* protester Murad Ahmed described the camp crackdown.

Helicopters were circling over the protest sites, using loudspeakers to call on the demonstrators to leave.

Police and military forces had previously cordoned off the camps with barbed wire, leaving corridors for protesters to leave. 




* mohamed el kholy @mohamed0elkholy*

&#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1579;&#1608;&#1585; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610; &#1571;&#1587;&#1604;&#1581;&#1577; &#1608;&#1584;&#1582;&#1610;&#1585;&#1577; &#1601;&#1610; &#1582;&#1610;&#1605;&#1577; &#1571;&#1582;&#1585;&#1610; &#1605;&#1606; &#1582;&#1610;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1593;&#1578;&#1589;&#1575;&#1605; #&#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1607;&#1590;&#1577; pic.twitter.com/tkvxM2Lm53
12:05 &#1087;&#1086;&#1089;&#1083;&#1077; &#1087;&#1086;&#1083;&#1091;&#1076;&#1085;&#1103; - 14 &#1072;&#1074;&#1075;&#1091;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072; 2013 








*Mohammed el-Beltagy, a senior Muslim Brotherhood leader, called on the police and army troops to mutiny against their commanders and for Egyptians to take to the streets in protest against military rule.

&#8220;Oh, Egyptian people, your brothers are in the square... Are you going to remain silent until the genocide is completed?&#8221; AP quoted him as saying. El-Beltagy is wanted by authorities to answer allegations of inciting violence.

Hours later El-Beltagy was arrested, Al-Arabiya reported, citing a security source. *




* Egypt Independent &#10004; @EgyIndependent*

EI Reporters: "Dr: Dozens of injured patients are being brought on such bloody trucks" pic.twitter.com/367IvsWQ5l
3:52 &#1087;&#1086;&#1089;&#1083;&#1077; &#1087;&#1086;&#1083;&#1091;&#1076;&#1085;&#1103; - 14 &#1072;&#1074;&#1075;&#1091;&#1089;&#1090;&#1072; 2013 












*Egyptian military vehicles block a road leading to the Rabaa al-Adawiya protest camp in Cairo as Egyptian police try to disperse supporters of Egypt's ousted president Mohamed Morsi on August 14, 2013 (AFP Photo / Khaled Desouki) *






*Egyptian riot police disperse supporters of Egypt's ousted president Mohamed Morsi and members of the Muslim Brotherhood as security forces crackdown on two major pro-Morsi protest camps, on August 14, 2013 near Cairo's Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque (AFP Photo / Khaled Desouki) *













*2200 People have been killed according to Dunya News Headlines

Inna Lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'un

&#1573;&#1616;&#1606;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575; &#1604;&#1616;&#1604;&#1617;&#1607;&#1616; &#1608;&#1614;&#1573;&#1616;&#1606;&#1614;&#1617;&#1600;&#1575; &#1573;&#1616;&#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1607;&#1616; &#1585;&#1614;&#1575;&#1580;&#1616;&#1593;&#1608;&#1606;&#1614;*​




*SOURCE:


RT*


'War zone': Scores feared dead in Cairo crackdown, protests spreading ? RT News



@Leader @Jazzbot @chauvunist @RangerPK @Slav Defence @qamar1990 @jehanzeb.akhtar@********** 

Please friends share this further and pray

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## Ceylal

iranigirl2 said:


> Now, lets see what would happen if Powerful countries start *to Arm* and train the Protestors, turn them into fighters and spend billions of dollars for this operation and send in thousands of foreign fighters!


' 
No needs to arm them, there are a lot of weapons circulating in Egypt, beside the MB's, like other radical Moslem groups, have stashed arsenals ready for use.


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## hussain0216

Ceylal said:


> peaceful?
> Then explain these brick walls...?



Brick walls????? how are the brick walls attacking anyone, if anything they need the walls to stop the assault against them


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## BlueWarrior

Ceylal said:


> peaceful?
> Then explain these brick walls...?


Since when did Egypt receive bulldozers from Israel? 

********.com - Egypt force with bulldozers vs civilians just like IDF against Palestinians


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## hussain0216

Ceylal said:


> That what the military does, when you call them...That what the Egyptians wanted and needed their army to clear the bearded vermines from their streets.
> History will see them as the *SAVIORS* of modern Egypt and the MMB's as *her graves diggers*



The Egyptial military will go down in infamy, instead of allowing the MB to fail politically the idiots have made the M.B into Martyrs

Egypt wont be fixed soon, its in a utter mess so the people will go through immense pain, everytime the egyptian military or its political stooges try to fix anything it will cause pain to the population, the lack of jobs the subsidies the problems are immense

Without a unified political reponse nothing will happen, since the military have alienated the M.B and lost support of a significant amount of the population all it will take is a concentrated effort to protest, strike, and spread info about the military and regime to make it fall




The liberals are even more stuck, they neither have the numbers or the organisation to take on the M.B but the Military is causing death and havoc

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## Ceylal

hussain0216 said:


> Brick walls????? how are the brick walls attacking anyone, if anything they need the walls to stop the assault against them


Then, refrain to talk about things when you don't grasp their utility and why they are there...believe me is not for a wind barrier.


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## hussain0216

1.49pm BST

Death toll at 124 says AFP


News wire AFP have put their latest number of dead at 124. 

Updated at 1.50pm BST



Ceylal said:


> Then, refrain to talk about things when you don't grasp their utility and why they are there...believe me is not for a wind barrier.



Yes, its to stop an attack from the kaffir military, God knows how many innocents would have been killed if it wernt for these walls

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## Ceylal

BlueWarrior said:


> Since when did *Egypt* receive *bulldozers* from *Israel*?


 Where is the problem...The last time, I checked Israelis flag, still flowing in Cairo ans well as the Egyptian's in Tel Aviv.


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## Leader

http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...-democracy-protesters-coup-egyptian-army.html

the dog(egyptian army) turned mad dog (against its own people)

nothing is more shameful than this !!

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## XENOHARMONIA DRAGON

* Egypt's Al-Azhar Distances Itself from Crackdown on Pro-Morsi Camps *



Egypt's Al-Azhar, Sunni Islam's main seat of learning, on Wednesday distanced itself from the crackdown on protesters loyal to ousted president Mohammed Morsi which left dozens dead.

"Al-Azhar stresses to all Egyptians that it did not know about the methods used for the dispersal of the protests except through media channels," Grand Imam Ahmed al-Tayyeb said in a televised statement.

Tayyeb condemned any use of violence and called on all sides to "exercise self-restraint and take into account the interests of the nation."

"The use of violence has never been an alternative to a political solution," he said.

Tayyeb reiterated his call for a negotiated solution to the crisis pitting Morsi's supporters and the army-installed leadership that has paralyzed the country.

The prestigious institution had infuriated Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood by siding with the military over the Islamist president's ouster on July 3.

from naharnet........

Goodbye Arab.............goodbye mb...........you betrayed islam true path......
Destruction & War is Your Future

Salafi party...............where are they...............the khawarij.........mb supporter dead................not our bussiness...
arab today are slave of zionist & west.............
arab country..............where are they.................mb supporter is dead..................not our bussiness...
Arab people today is stupid & dumb..............only war & destruction best future for them
All Arab country & people will erased....into hellfire.................Zionist plan is success

BRAVO.......


----------



## hussain0216

1147: Iran has also condemned the Egyptian authorities' actions. The Iranian foreign ministry said it disapproved of "violent actions and condemned the killing of people", and expressed its "deep concern regarding the dangerous consequences of such actions", Iranian news agency Mehr reports. 
1143: Reuters says Qatar has condemned the camp clearances. State news agency QNA quotes a foreign ministry official urging Egyptian authorities to "refrain from the security option in dealing with peaceful protests and to preserve the lives of Egyptians at protest sites". 



1131: More international reaction... this time from Turkish President Abdullah Gul who said that armed intervention against the protesters was "completely unacceptable". Turkey was one of the few countries to reject the military's ousting of Mohammed Morsi last month, calling for the restoration of democracy in Egypt.
1128: 
The move to clear the two protest camps came after days of warnings by the military-backed government, which termed the sit-ins a "threat to national security".


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## Leader

the coup is definitely backed by foreign powers, thats why this brutality !

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## Ceylal

Leader said:


> http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...-democracy-protesters-coup-egyptian-army.html


Please stop diluting yourselves , with democracy. Democracy is the last thing in the MB's mind. For them, democracy is foreign and has no place in Islam.


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## Leader

I wish Egypt to go down like Syria, atleast then there is chance of rising, this way its only status quo army rule again !


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## monitor

i condemn this indiscriminate killing of unarmed protester by the military govt . which modern world we are living when dozen of people are being killed but nobody protesting .

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## pkuser2k12

*An Egyptian woman tries to stop a military bulldozer from going forward during clashes that broke out as Egyptian security forces moved in to disperse supporters of Egypt's deposed president Mohamed Morsi in a huge protest camp near Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque in eastern Cairo on August 14, 2013 *





*Dead bodies lie on the ground after an Egyptian police crackdown on a protest camp by supporters of ousted president Mohamed Morsi and members of the Muslim Brotherhood on August 14, 2013 near Cairo's Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque*





*Riot police vehicles fire tear gas at members of the Muslim Brotherhood and supporters of deposed Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi, around Cairo University and Nahdet Misr Square, where they are camping in Giza, south of Cairo August 14, 2013*





*Fire is seen burning in Cairo's al-Nahda square as Egyptian police dispersed supporters of Egypt's ousted president Mohamed Morsi (portrait) in two huge protest camps in the Egyptian capital on August 14, 2013 *





*An injured supporter of Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi gestures as he lies on the ground after a police crackdown on a protest camp held by Morsi's supporters and members of the Muslim Brotherhood, on August 14, 2013 near Cairo's Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque *





*Riot police gather behind vehicle during clashes with members of the Muslim Brotherhood and supporters of deposed Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi, at Rabaa Adawiya square, where they are camping, in Cairo August 14, 2013*





*Egyptians helping a woman suffering from tear gas exposure after canisters were fired by Egyptian police as they try to disperse a pro-Morsi camp in a street leading to Rabaa al-Adawiya in Cairo on August 14, 2013*





*A protestor carries an injured comrade near Rabaa al-Adawiya square in Cairo during clashes between supporters of Egypt's ousted president Mohamed Morsi and riot police as they try to disperse pro-Morsi camps on August 14, 2013*




*2200 People have been killed according to Dunya News Headlines

Inna Lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'un

&#1573;&#1616;&#1606;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575; &#1604;&#1616;&#1604;&#1617;&#1607;&#1616; &#1608;&#1614;&#1573;&#1616;&#1606;&#1614;&#1617;&#1600;&#1575; &#1573;&#1616;&#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1607;&#1616; &#1585;&#1614;&#1575;&#1580;&#1616;&#1593;&#1608;&#1606;&#1614;​*



*
SOURCE:

RT*

Brutal police crackdown leaves scores dead in Egypt ? RT In vision




@Leader @Jazzbot @chauvunist @RangerPK @Slav Defence @qamar1990 @jehanzeb.akhtar@**********

Please friends share this further and pray for them

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## iranigirl2

*Sky TV cameraman killed in Cairo clashes*



Sky TV has confirmed that one of its cameramen has been killed during coverage of the ongoing violent clashes between Egypt's security forces and pro-Morsi supporters at a protest camp in Cairo. 


PressTV - Sky TV cameraman killed in Cairo clashes


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## Leader

Egypt protests: Bloodshed as Pro-Morsi camps cleared

















BBC News - Egypt protests: Bloodshed as Pro-Morsi camps cleared

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## hussain0216

An injured supporter of Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi gestures as he lies on the ground after a police crackdown on a protest camp held by Morsi's supporters and members of the Muslim Brotherhood, on August 14, 2013 near Cairo's Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque 

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...ursi-govt-updates-news-177.html#ixzz2bwwa59q2


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## Slav Defence

pkuser2k12 said:


> *An Egyptian woman tries to stop a military bulldozer from going forward during clashes that broke out as Egyptian security forces moved in to disperse supporters of Egypt's deposed president Mohamed Morsi in a huge protest camp near Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque in eastern Cairo on August 14, 2013 *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Dead bodies lie on the ground after an Egyptian police crackdown on a protest camp by supporters of ousted president Mohamed Morsi and members of the Muslim Brotherhood on August 14, 2013 near Cairo's Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque*
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> 
> 
> *Riot police vehicles fire tear gas at members of the Muslim Brotherhood and supporters of deposed Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi, around Cairo University and Nahdet Misr Square, where they are camping in Giza, south of Cairo August 14, 2013*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fire is seen burning in Cairo's al-Nahda square as Egyptian police dispersed supporters of Egypt's ousted president Mohamed Morsi (portrait) in two huge protest camps in the Egyptian capital on August 14, 2013 *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *An injured supporter of Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi gestures as he lies on the ground after a police crackdown on a protest camp held by Morsi's supporters and members of the Muslim Brotherhood, on August 14, 2013 near Cairo's Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque *
> 
> 
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> *Riot police gather behind vehicle during clashes with members of the Muslim Brotherhood and supporters of deposed Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi, at Rabaa Adawiya square, where they are camping, in Cairo August 14, 2013*
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> 
> *Egyptians helping a woman suffering from tear gas exposure after canisters were fired by Egyptian police as they try to disperse a pro-Morsi camp in a street leading to Rabaa al-Adawiya in Cairo on August 14, 2013*
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> *A protestor carries an injured comrade near Rabaa al-Adawiya square in Cairo during clashes between supporters of Egypt's ousted president Mohamed Morsi and riot police as they try to disperse pro-Morsi camps on August 14, 2013*
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> 
> 
> 
> *2200 People have been killed according to Dunya News Headlines
> 
> Inna Lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'un
> 
> &#1573;&#1616;&#1606;&#1614;&#1617;&#1575; &#1604;&#1616;&#1604;&#1617;&#1607;&#1616; &#1608;&#1614;&#1573;&#1616;&#1606;&#1614;&#1617;&#1600;&#1575; &#1573;&#1616;&#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1607;&#1616; &#1585;&#1614;&#1575;&#1580;&#1616;&#1593;&#1608;&#1606;&#1614;​*
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> *
> SOURCE:
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> RT*
> 
> Brutal police crackdown leaves scores dead in Egypt ? RT In vision
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> 
> @Leader @Jazzbot @chauvunist @RangerPK @Slav Defence @qamar1990 @jehanzeb.akhtar@**********
> 
> Please friends share this further and pray for them


May Allah help our protesters and grant them success against these transgressors.

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## BlueWarrior

dude this is sick.........









http://www.********.com/view?i=0bd_1376484128

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## hussain0216

1317: The army's crackdown on the camps has provoked strong diplomatic reaction from around the world - read the latest in this roundup.
Journalist Andrew Hammond tweets: Cairo is at a complete standstill. Streets deserted, shops shut. Army/police seem to hope it'll be over in 1-2 days, then weekend for mopup

BBC News - LIVE: Egypt police move on Cairo sit-ins


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## iranigirl2

*Former Israeli PM calls for US to support Egyptian coup leaders *


Former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak has called for the free world to support Egyptian Defence Minister General Abdul-Fattah Al-Sisi and liberal leaders such as Mohamed ElBaradie, he told CNN on Monday. Barak alleged that President Mohamed Morsi was ousted by his people after he had attempted to change Egypt into a religious-communist state.

Asked whether Israel is silently happy about the coup, he said: "We do not consider ourselves among the main players in these incidents, through which we see a dramatic development for the Egyptians."

Although Israel's support may well "embarrass" Al-Sisi, Barak insisted that he and "other" liberal leaders such as Al-Baradei deserve the support of the free world. "There were free elections but they were tools that were used to change the democratic elections into an extremist communist regime based on the Islamic Sharia," he claimed. "This led to the popular rejection of Morsi."

Calling for the US to deal with Morsi as it dealt with other autocratic Sunni leaders in the region, the former Israeli prime minister pointed out that America "neglected them when their people moved against them".

In closing, Barak said that in return for external support the people of Egypt should hold free, democratic elections within a year.





Former Israeli PM calls for US to support Egyptian coup leaders


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## Frogman

@pkuser2k12

The death toll is no where near that stated in your post. The Ministry of health released a statement saying 56 (including security forces) died throughout Egypt and hundreds of injuries while there are reports of about 80 dead (from foreign journos) in Rab3as field hospital.


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## iranigirl2

*Daughter of Mohamed Beltagy killed in Cairo crackdown*



The 17-year-old daughter of Muslim Brotherhood politician, Mohamed Beltagy, has been killed after Egyptian security forces stormed a protest camp in the Egyptian capital, Cairo. 


PressTV - Daughter of Mohamed Beltagy killed in Cairo crackdown




Muslim Brotherhood says 2,200 killed in Cairo, is this true?


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## hussain0216

iranigirl2 said:


> *Former Israeli PM calls for US to support Egyptian coup leaders *
> 
> 
> Former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak has called for the free world to support Egyptian Defence Minister General Abdul-Fattah Al-Sisi and liberal leaders such as Mohamed ElBaradie, he told CNN on Monday. Barak alleged that President Mohamed Morsi was ousted by his people after he had attempted to change Egypt into a religious-communist state.
> 
> Asked whether Israel is silently happy about the coup, he said: "We do not consider ourselves among the main players in these incidents, through which we see a dramatic development for the Egyptians."
> 
> Although Israel's support may well "embarrass" Al-Sisi, Barak insisted that he and "other" liberal leaders such as Al-Baradei deserve the support of the free world. "There were free elections but they were tools that were used to change the democratic elections into an extremist communist regime based on the Islamic Sharia," he claimed. "This led to the popular rejection of Morsi."
> 
> Calling for the US to deal with Morsi as it dealt with other autocratic Sunni leaders in the region, the former Israeli prime minister pointed out that America "neglected them when their people moved against them".
> 
> In closing, Barak said that in return for external support the people of Egypt should hold free, democratic elections within a year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Former Israeli PM calls for US to support Egyptian coup leaders





The israelis & the egyptian military/liberals are two sides of the same haramii coin

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## pkuser2k12

Frogman said:


> @pkuser2k12
> 
> The death toll is no where near that stated in your post. The Ministry of health released a statement saying 56 (including security forces) died throughout Egypt and hundreds of injuries while there are reports of about 80 dead (from foreign journos) in Rab3as field hospital.



the same ministry will say there are no deaths at all if they are pressed more 

so i don't take this nazi ministry word on death toll

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## BLACKEAGLE

May Allah has mercy on Egypt.

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## Dr. Strangelove

an army runned by taxes of the same people it is killing ..................what an irony.

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## Frogman

pkuser2k12 said:


> the same ministry will say there are no deaths at all if they are pressed more
> 
> so i don't take this nazi ministry word on death toll


#

So foreign journalists in the actual field hospitals are lying too?

The death toll you stated is wildly over exaggerated even if the health ministry was trying to cover up the actual death toll.



> The israelis & the egyptian military/liberals are two sides of the same haramii coin



Stop with the liberal stuff, you don't even know what liberalism is.

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## pkuser2k12

Frogman said:


> Stop with the liberal stuff, you don't even know what liberalism is.



we are seeing it now


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## Frogman

pkuser2k12 said:


> we are seeing it now



If you think this is a result of liberalism or in any way related to liberal ideology then you are incredibly ignorant.


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## Serpentine

Frogman said:


> If you think this is a result of liberalism or in any way related to liberal ideology then you are incredibly ignorant.




Bro, do you still support every action of Egyptian army?
I don't like MB in anyway, but we can't call every protester who is killed a 'terrorist'. I do not deny that extremist elements do exist in the protesters who want the violent approach, but why don't we take it in to consideration that maybe some normal people who elected Morsi in an election just want their vote back? They were half of Egyptian society. It's not fair to call everyone who is protesting a terrorist. Egypt now have a legitimate opposition and I hope things don't be dragged down in to a civil war. There are certain countries who would be happy to see destruction of Egypt, its power and its people.

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## hussain0216

Frogman said:


> #
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop with the liberal stuff, you don't even know what liberalism is.



Yeah, they are the twats who support a military over throw of an elected government and slaughter of peacefull protesters

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## Frogman

> Bro, do you still support every action of Egyptian army?



No, the only move I supported was the ousting of Morsi. Read through my comments and you will understand my views.



> I don't like MB in anyway, but we can't call every protester who is killed a 'terrorist'.



Innocent protesters have been killed, however, there are no innocent sides in this situation. These protests were not entirely peaceful nor incredibly violent.



> but why don't we take it in to consideration that maybe some normal people who elected Morsi in an election just want their vote back? They were half of Egyptian society.



Only the MB's core support remain. The majority of those who voted for him (either the revolutionaries or sympathizers) were alienated by Morsi and his crew over the past year. Morsi was the illigetimate president of Egypt since November (the constitutional decree). This us no longer about the ballot box.



> . It's not fair to call everyone who is protesting a terrorist.



Its not fair on anyone, however, the media on both sides of the divide are fighting a viscous battle for public opinion with one side slandering ordinary Egyptians who supported the coup against Morsi as Kuffars and munafiqeen and remnants of the previous regime and the other using the buzzwords of terrorism and national security (which is actually in danger).



> . Egypt now have a legitimate opposition and I hope things don't be dragged down in to a civil war. There are certain countries who would be happy to see destruction of Egypt, its power and its people.



We shall see.



> Yeah, they are the twats who support a military over throw of an elected government and slaughter of peacefull protesters



Wrong. You fail to distinguish an ideology from the views of individuals who hold conservative views but are perceived by some to be liberals just because they supported the ousting of Morsi.

If this matter was the other way round and it was those who opposed Morsi that were being killed (which happened) would you be as aggressive in condemning and calling for regime change?


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## hussain0216

Serpentine said:


> Bro, do you still support every action of Egyptian army?
> I don't like MB in anyway, but we can't call every protester who is killed a 'terrorist'. I do not deny that extremist elements do exist in the protesters who want the violent approach, but why don't we take it in to consideration that maybe some normal people who elected Morsi in an election just want their vote back? They were half of Egyptian society. It's not fair to call everyone who is protesting a terrorist. Egypt now have a legitimate opposition and I hope things don't be dragged down in to a civil war. There are certain countries who would be happy to see destruction of Egypt, its power and its people.




I stated this in a post earlier.

The M.B arent terrorists they arent even close, when the liberals accuse them it just sounds stupid


What have the M.B done, they have protested and held sit ins, sure some people are getting angry but throwing a rock or even attacking a building after so much provocation is nothing. Hundreads of innocent brotherhood memebers have been killed, gunned down in cold blood. An elected government has been over thrown and their leadership arrested, humiliated and torutured 

Any what bombs have they let off in return, NONE, they havent sent suicde bombers or car bombers or anything.



Look at iraq, afghanistan or even Pakistan now thats terrorism, TTP, Taliban, Let now these are hardcore gorups.

They would have slaughtered throusands of egyptians by now, hundreads of churches would have been over run, they would have sent waves of suicide bombers and car bombers & special terrorist teams to attack Tahire square it would have been a blood bath


M.B have done NOTHING, except be on the receiving end of bullets and slaughter.



The egptian liberal scums should thank the lord they are dealing with the M/B and not the Taliban or TTP

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## The SiLent crY

Ceylal said:


> '
> No needs to arm them, there are a lot of weapons circulating in Egypt, beside the MB's, like other radical Moslem groups, have stashed arsenals ready for use.



Arming protesters will just bring another Syria to ME ad will cause more casualties which will be backed by the US and west and no response from UN adding dozens of Saudi Arabian backed terrorists who will join to butcher people there .


I hope it ends in favor of Egyptians as soon as possible .

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## The SiLent crY

BLACKEAGLE said:


> May Allah has mercy on Egypt.



Where are your mujahedin to defend people in Egypt ? They're counting USD right now ?

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

agentny17 said:


> Stick to your country, if you have no idea what you talking about!!



people really have no idea are those who have no brain and honor and who sell their country to foreigners..If there were no any incitement, encouragement and bribes by foreigners then your junta scums never could dare to comitt that coup..

After ousting dictator Mobarak Egypt got the chance of becoming leader of arab world..but someother aArab countries destroyed that chance by bribing some traitors..That coup has nothing to do with islamists or secularists..Neither MB is a so hardline nor Egypt army is an so secularist army.. MB relatively to other arab religous orgs.and jamaats is regarded as moderate...Salafist Al Nour party is much more hardline but has no problem with high ranked junta army staff and minor elite looter circle due to GCCs influence..

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## BlueWarrior

S00R3NA said:


> I smell a civil war or something like that which is going to be supported by US , West and their puppet states such as Saudi Arabia and Qatar in favor of Israel .
> 
> The strongest Arab country is going to be destroyed in order not to be a danger for Israel and US interests in region . This is the way they behave Muslim countries when they're in the right path .


Over 2000 killed so civil war is likely. Check all this images on dailymail Egypt protests: Sky News cameraman Mick Deane shot dead and '100 killed' in bloodbath | Mail Online


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## Frogman

> people really have no idea are those who have no brain and honor and who sell their country to foreigners..If there were no any incitement, encouragement and bribes by foreigners then your junta scums never could dare to comitt that coup..





> After ousting dictator Mobarak Egypt got the chance of becoming leader of arab world..but someother aArab countries destroyed that chance by bribing some traitors..That coup has nothing to do with islamists or secularists..Neither MB is a hardline nor Egypt army is an secularist army.. MB relatively to other arab religous orgs.and jamaats is regarded as moderate...Salafist Al Nour party is much more hardline but has no problem with high ranked junta army staff and minor elite looter circle due to GCCs influence..



It was the MB who struck a deal with the SCAF to hold elections before the drawing up of a new constitution. The MB had the advantage of being a long standing quasi political group and were destined to make gains if elections were held quickly, in return the military's powers/position would become entrenched in the constitution (before the revolution their powers were not entrenched in the constitution) and so ensuring their interest wouldn't be hurt.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You're just regurgitating the official Islamist lines on this matter.

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## hussain0216

3.35pm BST

Egypt health ministry say 95 dead and 874 injured


Here's the latest from Reuters: 


Egypt's health ministry said on Wednesday that 95 people had been killed on Wednesday in a police raid on supporters of deposed President Mohamed Mursi at a Cairo protest camp and clashes nationwide. 

"The dead are both from police and civilians. We are waiting to get more details," said the ministry's spokesman, Hamdi Abdel Karim, adding that 874 people had been wounded. 

Here is a longer report from them with some wider context:


At least 95 Egyptians were killed on Wednesday after security forces moved in on protesters demanding the reinstatement of President Mohamed Morsi, and the government imposed a state of emergency as unrest swept the most populous Arab nation.

Troops opened fire on demonstrators in violence that brought chaos to areas of the capital and looked certain to further polarize Egypt's 84 million people between those who backed Morsi and the millions who opposed his brief rule.

The state of emergency, starting at 1400 GMT on Wednesday, was to last a month.

In the streets around the Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque in northeast Cairo, where thousands of Morsi supporters have staged a sit-in for the last six weeks, riot police wearing gas masks crouched behind armoured vehicles, tear gas hung in the air and burning tires sent plumes of black smoke into the sky.

At a hospital morgue nearby, a Reuters reporter counted 29 bodies, including that of a 12-year-old boy. Most had died of gunshot wounds to the head. A nurse at the same hospital had said she counted 60 bodies, and expected the number to rise. 

The unrest spread beyond the capital, with the cities of Minya and Assiut, and Alexandria on the northern coast, also affected.

Seventeen people were killed in the province of Fayoum south of Cairo. Five more died in Suez. 

Updated at 3.35pm BST


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## Frogman

BlueWarrior said:


> Over 2000 killed so civil war is likely. Check all this images on dailymail Egypt protests: Sky News cameraman Mick Deane shot dead and '100 killed' in bloodbath | Mail Online



The very same article you have posted contradicts your starting statement.

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## hussain0216

anyone with a pair of eyes and a brain can see what is going on. The military regime is consolidating power and it is doing so over the bodies of Egyptian civilians. The only question is how high will the body count be. 

Martial law is back. That means civil law no longer applies. The military now have absolute power, they can close any institution, the secret police can arrest anyone, shoot anyone, torture anyone with impunity.There is now no judicial oversight, no constitutional oversight to military power. This is the closing act in the coup that occurred in July.

The revolution is dead. Democracy is dead. There is now no difference between the Sisi regime and the Mubarak regime. None. 

and liberals support this?

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## Frogman

> anyone with a pair of eyes and a brain can see what is going on. The military regime is consolidating power and it is doing so over the bodies of Egyptian civilians. The only question is how high will the body count be.



Already had the power. There was no need to consolidate anything.



> Martial law is back. That means civil law no longer applies. The military now have absolute power, they can close any institution, the secret police can arrest anyone, shoot anyone, torture anyone with impunity.There is now no judicial oversight, no constitutional oversight to military power. This is the closing act in the coup that occurred in July.



So you were in favour of martial law when Morsi announced it for various cities around the Suez canal for a total of three months or were you against that?



> The revolution is dead. Democracy is dead. There is now no difference between the Sisi regime and the Mubarak regime. None.



You should include Morsi in there. The only achievement he brought was that he was Egypt's first elected autocrat.



> and liberals support this?



Seriously, what is it with you and liberals?

You neither understand the ideology or the people who claim to follow it. Would you say that I'm a liberal?

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## Yzd Khalifa

To Egyptians and other Arabic speakers  
&#x202b;


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## Ceylal

As much as, I think the that MB's are not fit to rule, the reaction of the Egyptian security apparatus, is despicable... The Egyptian army will have a heavy burden to carry for a long time to come, because she took on a job reserved to police forces that weren't probably trained in crowd control. My deep sorrow to the Egyptian contributor in this forum


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## Frogman

Ceylal said:


> As much as, I think the that MB's are not fit to rule, the reaction of the Egyptian security apparatus, is despicable... The Egyptian army will have a heavy burden to carry for a long time to come, because she took on a job reserved to police forces that weren't probably trained in crowd control. My deep sorrow to the Egyptian contributor in this forum




Or it will all be forgotten in a week. It probably will be forgotten by the majority of non-Egyptian members on this thread who support the MB if people stop dying. The bandwagon stopped for about two weeks and no one seemed to care about the situation in Egypt. This is the military's 1967 part two, if it fails to reform or change from an institution which is involved in the economy and politics to one solely for protecting Egypt under civilian oversight and control then we will have a much bigger problem.


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## Frogman

Policeman allegedly shot dead by pro-Morsi supporters in Kurdasa.


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## Chak Bamu

Ceylal said:


> Please stop diluting yourselves , with democracy. Democracy is the last thing in the MB's mind. For them, democracy is foreign and has no place in Islam.



HOW would YOU know?

You are just airing your bias. You do not know anything for certain. Only time can tell, and looking at the massacre in Cairo, Egypt's military is certainly more of a problem than a hypothesis about what MB might or might not do. Such excuses were made every time Islamists were seen to succeed in elections. Do you remember Algeria in '90s? Could FIS have brought such bloodshed by itself?

Face it, the excuses likes of you make are just excuses. You can not tolerate Islamists and you would rather have countries burn in civil wars than see Islamists in power. Are they not part of society? If Pakistan can alternate between Leftists and Rightists and live through it, what makes Arabs special that they can not go through this? Why can Arabs like yourself not tolerate democracy, just because you do not think likes of you may not win elections? Is not that intolerance and bigotry in itself.

Either you have elections and respect the outcome, or you put up with civil war and military rule. You have to come to terms with Islamists. The best way is through elections.


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## Frogman

Chak Bamu said:


> HOW would YOU know?
> 
> You are just airing your bias. You do not know anything for certain. Only time can tell, and looking at the massacre in Cairo, Egypt's military is certainly more of a problem than a hypothesis about what MB might or might not do. Such excuses were made every time Islamists were seen to succeed in elections. Do you remember Algeria in '90s? Could FIS have brought such bloodshed by itself?
> 
> Face it, the excuses likes of you make are just excuses. You can not tolerate Islamists and you would rather have countries burn in civil wars than see Islamists in power. Are they not part of society? If Pakistan can alternate between Leftists and Rightists and live through it, what makes Arabs special that they can not go through this? Why can Arabs like yourself not tolerate democracy, just because you do not think likes of you may not win elections? Is not that intolerance and bigotry in itself.
> 
> *Either you have elections and respect the outcome, or you put up with civil war and military rule. You have to come to terms with Islamists. The best way is through elections.*




So why did Morsi and the Islamists ignore the calls by the military and other political parties for a referendum on presidential elections multiple times along a six month period prior to the coup. Why did Morsi refuse to hold presidential elections when the protests started?

He may have save Egypt this mess but he decided to stick with his "legitimacy".


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## Chak Bamu

Frogman said:


> So why did Morsi and the Islamists ignore the calls by the military and other political parties for a referendum on presidential elections multiple times along a six month period prior to the coup. Why did Morsi refuse to hold presidential elections when the protests started?
> 
> He may have save Egypt this mess but he decided to stick with his "legitimacy".



He may have done whatever you say he did (or did not do). In ANY case, he did not cause this bloodbath. It is the making of Egypt's military and its supporters who like to call themsleves 'liberals'. Be very afraid of anyone who rides to power atop a tank.

We in Pakistan put up with the worst president anyone could have, and we tolerated this because we knew the alternative would be Army. Egyptians could have put up with Morsi and their democracy could have been strong for having done so. Sadly, the fissures within Egyptian society were exploited to bring this sorry state of affairs.


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## Solomon2

Written by : Ali Ibrahim
on : Wednesday, 14 Aug, 2013
Opinion: A Harsh Mood in Cairo

Even in the days when tourists were a target of terrorist acts by extremists, we did not see a decline in business and the number of bookings such as the one today, a receptionist at a hotel in Cairo said. Of course, the receptionist was comparing the first half of the 1990s, which saw an upsurge of terrorist activities, with the present. Perhaps now the holy month of Ramadan, during which the number of tourists drops, have combined with the tense atmosphere caused by the Muslim Brotherhoods rallies and threats.

Despite the dramatic events, Cairo in Ramadan remains charming, with people staying up late in the citys cafes. The difference this time is that people are clearly worried about their future. Waiters eyes are fixed on the big screens which most restaurants and cafes have tuned the latest news about when and where protests will be taking place and the statements issued by the government, as well as openly exchanging views among themselves. Everyone, young and old, is talking and breathing politics.

Another difference is that people now carefully plan their journeys to avoid roads and areas the Brotherhood might have blocked. Unfortunately, sometimes traffic is suddenly blocked due to a small Brotherhood protest outside the Rabaa Al-Adawiya and Nahda squares.

Other than that, life appears normal. Restaurants and cafes are crowded and traffic in most areas, away from the Brotherhoods gatherings, is as busy as usual with a huge number of cars roaming the streets as well as long lines of people waiting in front of sweet shops before Iftar. As for Cairos new neighborhoods, people are enjoying their lives and many middle and upper middle class families head to the villages and cities along the northern coast during the summer as usual.

Taxi drivers who some think reflect public mood do not conceal their anger of what they call a financial crisis due to a decline of business under the Brotherhoods rule.

Rumors are rife in Egypt and each is spread and denied several times. However, no one can fail to realize that the public mood, particularly of the middle class, is strongly opposed to the Brotherhood and their allies and the ones staging the rallies in Rabaa Al-Adawiya and Nahda squares as well as traffic blockages. The public often appears to be more firm than the interim government, demanding decisive and rapid measures even if it will cost them a high price. Although the popularity of the military jumped enormously after June 30, no one can guarantee the publics mood, which is currently hungry for a showdown, will not change if much blood is shed. Most Egyptians do not like to see blood.

Perhaps this is what the Brotherhood is betting on following the historic defeat it suffered after a year in power. The group is currently behaving in a manner tantamount to political suicide, with its unrealistic demands and acts which some liken to acts of revenge on society. The Brotherhood is intentionally turning a blind eye to the public atmosphere opposing its policy, as well as the outrage of the residents in the areas where they are staging rallies.

The Brotherhood made a great mistake by failing to realize that the massive protests on June 30 and after was a sign of impatience at the groups one-year-rule on the part of the public majority who had a desire for change. There might be many reasons for June 30 among which is the way affairs were administered; however, it is certain that part of the reason lies in the publics concern over the Brotherhoods attempt at changing Egyptians lifestyles.

How will things end? Probably, as time goes by people will have blown off steam, retained their calm and rethought their plans. The money some say is being used to fund protestors will be exhausted soon. This is not to mention that the public appears to be determined to see change. Challenges facing the interim and future rulers will be enormous especially in the economic sphere. However, restoring stability in itself will give tourism and business an immediate push, which people will be able to see.




Ali Ibrahim is _Asharq Al-Awsat_'s deputy editor-in-chief. He is based in London.


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## Frogman

> He may have done whatever you say he did (or did not do). In ANY case, he did not cause this bloodbath. It is the making of Egypt's military and its supporters who like to call themsleves 'liberals'. Be very afraid of anyone who rides to power atop a tank.



So you're saying the coup and the subsequent events couldn't have been avoided if Morsi agreed to hold a referendum or an election on his presidency?

The military and the MB are both complicit and implicated in the killing of innocent protesters and Morsi's hands were not clear of blood before the coup. The demonisation of liberals and the misunderstanding of the term and the ideology is rather annoying.



> We in Pakistan put up with the worst president anyone could have, and we tolerated this because we knew the alternative would be Army.



Two different situations and circumstances.



> Egyptians could have put up with Morsi and their democracy could have been strong for having done so



Morsi was an elected autocrat and not a civil servant. He was illegitimate the day he released a constitutional decree granting himself sweeping powers and immunity from prosecution. He was never going to be good for democracy in Egypt. Democracy is a process not an event which grants someone immunity for four years. This wasn't a matter of incompetence.

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## agentny17

Wake up people


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## islamrules

*another bloody move by the kuffr and nifaq alliance against the Egyptian inocent muslims 
Dr Beltagi a MB leader recieves Asmaa his daughter's martyrdom news *




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1404755369745662




*here is Asmaa Beltagi rahimaha Allah*




*More horrible pics of shuhada n injured *


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## islamrules




----------



## islamrules

098138_571745432887031_1157857777_n.jpg[/IMG]

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## islamrules

the army using israeli gas bombs 






forciing an old woman to kneel before him


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## islamrules

*man holds someone's brain in his hand*





*This is not Syria*






*Police cheering up after this slaugher *






*Abderahman one of the shuhada , he was a Doctor *





*Abderahman Farag another shahid *


----------



## TheThreePashas

Guys. I found a solution to all of this. Why don't we donate our very favorite Recep Tayyip Erdo&#287;an to Egypt? He's great at removing military power! And we will be rid of him! It's a win-win! You're just gonna have to worry about him afterwards... but hey, we'll worry about it one step at a time yeah?


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## islamrules

*I swear by Allah that the jews are better than these brainless criminals*






*a sniper on the roof*


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## agentny17

Clearing the first sit-in


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## islamrules

*these are the terrorists that are threatening the national security of Egypt !!! *
Habiba ahmad abdel aziz the daughter of morsi's media counselor 
status : a shahida 






this picture summs it all

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## islamrules

*Sheikh Mohammed Hassan blacks out ...*


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## Hussein

islamrules said:


> forciing an old woman to kneel before him


where did you see he is forcing her? she seems to be in that position. it could be many reasons.. tired?
well you're good to create a meaning , sometimes non sense meaning to pics lol


islamrules said:


> *I swear by Allah that the jews are better than these brainless criminals*


stop insult Allah

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## islamrules

*Snipers on the roof of nasr hotel *


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

first getaway from killer junta cabinet is by Al Baradai..He has resigned..
*vice president of illegal president Adly Mansour, mr. Al Baradai fleeing from the sinking ship in the blood of Egyptians. *



agentny17 said:


> Clearing the first sit-in



an army which served for 3 dictators over than 60 years and has an bygone of full of war routs aganist Israel is now fighting like wild hyenas against their own unarmed civillians.

it just reminds me peerless victories of Assad thugs..of course their outcome will be same as well..

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## islamrules

Hussein said:


> where did you see he is forcing her? she seems to be in that position. it could be many reasons.. tired?
> well you're good to create a meaning , sometimes non sense meaning to pics lol
> 
> stop insult Allah








and Yes the jews are far better than these brainless criminals, because the jew in the only one in that region who's not killing his own people

*CNN reporter describes what happened *


----------



## Solomon2

islamrules said:


> forciing an old woman to kneel before him


Good show for the photographer, yes?
 @islamrules, without context this doesn't make much more sense than a few frames from the middle of a movie. It's pornography, even sacrilege: you offer these images because you want people to respect and worship these images, not G-d.

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## islamrules

and yes the jews are better than sisi' thugs becauce Netanyahu would never bomb his own people with tear gas from helicopters




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1404752309745968


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## agentny17

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> first getaway from killer junta cabinet is by Al Baradai..He has resigned..
> *vice president of illegal president Adly Mansour, mr. Al Baradai fleeing from the sinking ship in the blood of Egyptians. *
> 
> 
> 
> an army which served for 3 dictators over than 60 years and has an bygone of full of war routs aganist Israel is now fighting like wild hyenas against their own unarmed civillians.
> 
> it just reminds me peerless victories of Assad thugs..of course their outcome will be same as well..



Egyptian police not the army and they were armed and their is plenty of pictures and videos to prove it.


----------



## islamrules

*this is the police that is supposed to protect the people !! *


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## Frogman

I am still unable to understand the fascination with showing brutal images of corpses or the need to show these images, especially when trying to make a point. Sadistic is the only word I can come up with.

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## islamrules

Frogman said:


> I am still unable to understand the fascination with showing brutal images of corpses or the need to show these images, especially when trying to make a point. Sadistic is the only word I can come up with.



r u serious ?

the truth shall be told and let the world hear and c what the Sisi's n his soldiers are doing to the muslims in Egypt

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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> r u serious ?



Yes, sometimes brutal pictures may be used to show that there has been death but there's no need to have endless posts with brutal pictures.


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## hussain0216

Frogman said:


> I am still unable to understand the fascination with showing brutal images of corpses or the need to show these images, especially when trying to make a point. Sadistic is the only word I can come up with.



They are vital to show what the egyptian military is doing to the people



islamrules said:


> and yes the jews are better than sisi' thugs becauce Netanyahu would never bomb his own people with tear gas from helicopters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1404752309745968



The Jews are treacherous but you are right they don't screw their own people

But it should be noted the Jews and their supporters in the west support thismmassacre


----------



## Frogman

> They are vital to show what the egyptian military is doing to the people



There are articles, news and statistics which can do exactly the same thing. There's no need to plaster endless photos of dead people.


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## islamrules

Frogman said:


> Yes, sometimes brutal pictures may be used to show that there has been death but there's no need to have endless posts with brutal pictures.



I have pics of people burned alive in their tents in Rabia square and I didn't post them


----------



## Frogman

islamrules said:


> I have pics of people burned alive in their tents in Rabia square and I didn't post them



We both have brutal pictures but there's no need posting them. Simply reporting the deaths and if necessary the circumstances by which they died should be enough to get your point across.

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## hussain0216

A picture speaks a thousand words

Imagery is important to get the message across

After work I had to drop a friend off at home the news was on in his living room and we were discussing the situation, the pictures and scene's were enough for his normally docile mother to declare the egyptian security as zaalim

Pictures can be better than words, & can better encourage people to act

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## islamrules

the number of the shuhada not the injured but only the shuhada Today 14-8-2013 is 4800 !!!
in Rabia Square only the shuhada are more than 4300 !!

no comment !

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## islamrules

Frogman said:


> We both have brutal pictures but there's no need posting them. Simply reporting the deaths and if necessary the circumstances by which they died should be enough to get your point across.



I am not making a point here , I am reporting the Facts, more than 5000 r killed Today , and the pics r still coming

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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> I am not making a point here , I am reporting the Facts, more than 5000 r killed Today , and the pics r still coming



That;s a wild exaggeration and you know it, dude. The actual number of casualties is reported to be over 200 with nearly 50 dead from the security forces.


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## Solomon2

islamrules said:


> I am not making a point here , I am reporting the Facts, more than 5000 r killed Today , and the pics r still coming


Now you're providing context. Yet these pictures don't support your claim of thousands killed. Were the injured attacked by the Army and police out of the blue or were they the attackers? Nor do they negate the analysis from an Arab newspaper I provided earlier, that of life being pretty much normal in Cairo save that people try to avoid the M-B areas so they don't get caught in traffic snarls created by people they don't support.


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## islamrules

Frogman said:


> That;s a wild exaggeration and you know it, dude. The actual number of casualties is reported to be over 200 with nearly 50 dead from the security forces.



Yeah 120 shahid 13 hours ago , I wish I am but who's left alive of the Drs at Rabia square say 4300 , I dare Sisi to gave the bodies of the shuahada to there people and let us c how many funeral will there be in the streets of Egypt , but the military is burning the bodies now

I am sorry to the shahid in this picture 












this is a pic with a comment :
Sheikh Akram Kassab says his took this pic before the military took over the mini hospital in Rabia square .
*they r burning the bodies in that mini hospital to cover the truth, for them 120 is good number to sell to their dead hearted media *


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## islamrules

I am sorry but no one seem to be posting these images and the world must c this


----------



## Mahmoud_EGY

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> first getaway from killer junta cabinet is by Al Baradai..He has resigned..
> *vice president of illegal president Adly Mansour, mr. Al Baradai fleeing from the sinking ship in the blood of Egyptians. *
> 
> 
> 
> an army which served for 3 dictators over than 60 years and has an bygone of full of war routs aganist Israel is now fighting like wild hyenas against their own unarmed civillians.
> 
> it just reminds me peerless victories of Assad thugs..of course their outcome will be same as well..


our army has a long history full of victories since the times of pharohs to muhamed ali pasha when we crushed your so called empire and in 73 when we had victory and got our land back from isreal 
your country turk has done the same in istanbul weeks ago you should be defending your country men right to protest peacefully

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## Frogman

> Yeah 120 shahid 13 hours ago , I wish I am but who's left alive of the Drs at Rabia square say 4300 , I dare Sisi to gave the bodies of the shuahada to there people and let us c how many funeral will there be in the streets of Egypt , but the military is burning the bodies now



So for the past thirteen hours the security forces alone have managed to kill 330 people per hour using small arms. Ludicrous.


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## islamrules

again I am deeply sorry for the pictures but the truth must come out

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## islamrules

Frogman said:


> So for the past thirteen hours the security forces alone have managed to kill 330 people per hour using small arms. Ludicrous.


small arms !!


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## Mahmoud_EGY

islamrules said:


> again I am deeply sorry for the pictures but the truth must come out


here is some of the truth 
some of the police officers killed today


----------



## Frogman

islamrules said:


> small arms !!



Most likely a 7.62 Soviet round fired from an AKM. So yes, small arms.


----------



## hussain0216

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> here is some of the truth
> some of the police officers killed today



Yeah but these idiots are part of the brutal military junta who are attacking innocents

They wasted their lives trying to crush the egyptian people

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## Mahmoud_EGY

hussain0216 said:


> Yeah but these idiots are part of the brutal military junta who are attacking innocents
> 
> They wasted their lives trying to crush the egyptian people


you call men who died idiots no matter what you think they have done this not how a good muslim talk about death 
we are ordered to respect death even for our enemies

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## hussain0216

These people have betrayed all Muslims not just egyptians 

Now they are dead they will have to explain to god why they were so adamant his laws were not to be implemented, and why anyone supporting sharia should be killed

They are not going to a nice place, so who cares about them

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## islamrules

*the man who took these pictures I am about to post Mosa'ab Elshamy has been martyred Today :*

Flickr: Mosa'aberising's Photostream

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## islamrules

no comment 




RIP manhood

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## islamrules

Sisi's soldiers arresting the protesters at Rabia

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## islamrules

*soldier putting bullets in that box as to claim afterwards that they found arms with the protesters, this is sickening !!*

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## islamrules



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## Frogman

islamrules said:


>



This is perhaps the only funny incident to happen today. The dude who died three times.

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## islamrules



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## Jihad_

Today is the deadliest day in Egypt since the 1973 Yom Kippur war against Israel. I hope you are proud of yourselves Tamarrod.

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## islamrules

*95% of the police Today were christians *


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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> *95% of the police Today were christians *


----------



## islamrules



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## hussain0216

islamrules said:


> *95% of the police Today were christians *



They know the Christians will do the dirty work

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## agentny17

1928-2013


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## islamrules

*Christian policeman praying after shooting muslims last month in the last minasa slaugher *








agentny17 said:


> 1928-2013



islam rules the world by the promise of the Almighty with or without the MB n this is just the beginning

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## babajees

One Girl gets killed in Iran: Obama condemns Iraq
Turkey uses tear gas to clear protestors from park: Whole whole condemns
Egypt Army MASSACARED unarmed civilians! Obama + World Silent

Shame on Jew funded, US allied, Saudi blessed Egypt Army!! 250+ killed so far!! My heart weeps with MB now

I wasn't a supporter of MB (niether Army) but now I am MB!

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## agentny17

islamrules said:


> *Christian policeman praying after shooting muslims last month in the last minasa slaugher *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> islam rules the world by the promise of the Almighty with or without the MB n this is just the beginning



RIP .


----------



## Syrian Lion

Online reports suggest up to 20+ churches were burned across Egypt, along with other Christian-owned businesses and schools.

Ø´Ø¨Ø§Ø¨ ÙØ§Ø³Ø¨ÙØ±Ù ÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø¹Ù Ø*Ø¬Ù Ø§ÙØ§Ø¹ØªØ¯Ø§Ø¡Ø§Øª Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙØ§Ø¦Ø³ ÙØ§ÙØ£ÙØ¨Ø§Ø· ÙÙ Ø³ØªØ© ÙØ*Ø§ÙØ¸Ø§Øª | Ø£Ø®Ø¨Ø§Ø± Ø§ÙÙÙØ¬Ø²

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## islamrules




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## islamrules

they say Hitler burned the jews for the sake of his people, well Sisi burned his people for the sake of the jews

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## iranigirl2

*3 Journalists Killed in Egypt Turmoil*


3 Journalists Killed in Egypt Turmoil - ABC News


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## Yzd Khalifa

Unbelievable! 

The military did cross the line by now.

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## iranigirl2

"Establishing a stable democracy is a two-stage process. First you get rid of the old regime, then you build a durable democratic replacement. Because the first stage is dramatic, many people think the game is over when the dictator has gone. But the second stage is more difficult." 


Egypt's Series of Terrible Governments, in One Chart - Olga Khazan - The Atlantic


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## kalu_miah

islamrules said:


> *95% of the police Today were christians *



Is there a source to confirm this? If this is really true then, it is easy to explain, why the police and security force did not hesitate to kill Muslims. First the billionaire Copt Swairis manages the Tamarod movement, now Copts killing Muslims.

This reminds me of recent mostly Hindu Police killing Islamist peaceful protesters. Like Copts, Hindus are 9% of Bangladesh population.

And just like in Egypt, secular/Liberal Muslims cheered on the killing of peaceful Islamist protesters by security forces.

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## Syrian Lion

Syria 2.0, where the terrorism media will blame the Egyptian army of killing innocent people, while in reality it is either MB terrorists killing protests to blame the army, just like in Syria, or the Egyptian army is targeting terrorists just like in Syria...

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## Jihad_

Syrian Lion said:


> Syria 2.0, where the terrorism media will blame the Egyptian army of killing innocent people, while in reality it is either MB terrorists killing protests to blame the army, just like in Syria, or the Egyptian army is targeting terrorists just like in Syria...



Are u a Christian?


----------



## iranigirl2

Syrian Lion said:


> Syria 2.0, where the terrorism media will blame the Egyptian army of killing innocent people, while in reality it is either MB terrorists killing protests to blame the army, just like in Syria, or the Egyptian army is targeting terrorists just like in Syria...




Oh come on it's not even the same thing


In Syria there were protests , but some of them were trained, and armed to attack the army and cause chaos. They had been in Turkey and Qatar planning a violent overthrow in Syria for since 2003!!!!!


I don't see armed protestors in Egypt. They don't get billion of weapons, they are not trained by neighboring countries to attack the army, there is no foreign fighters in Egypt...

I looked at all the picture and videos from Egypt, looks like peaceful sit ins! But the security forces don't even want them to hold peaceful sit ins.

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## islamrules

it's ex General Safwat Zayat , he said that some people inside the police and military told him that the police were picked up based on how much they hate islamists, and most of them were christians . the military knew the situation can't go on like that , but the reaction was devastating for them , the protesters took over 7 provinces in 5 hours and burned down 10 police departements in one day

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## idune

These pictures of genocide committed by Egyptian army looks eerily-similar to what current Awami League regime did in Bangladesh. My prayers for those brothers and their families, may Allah give them jannah, courage and consolation.

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## islamrules

I mean look at this Egyptian media (sawires's one tv), they bring in a picture of the shuhada killed Today by sisi's dogs and claim that these bodies were found under the stage !!

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## islamrules

*I wish they used weapons, they were facing pure hardcore kuffars *

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## idune

Blood of Egyptians are all over Saudi rulers and US hand. These are hard to wash and Saudi people should wake up and understand their rulers are drowning them into debt of blood that they can not repay or come out with throwing around money.

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## islamrules

*Believe it or not, Sisi once said : " if I extend my hand to harm one Egyptian, I will cut it off " *

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## Jihad_

islamrules said:


> *Believe it or not, Sisi once said : " if I extend my hand to harm one Egyptian, I will cut it off " *



Cut your head while you're at it, Pharao Sisi.

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## islamrules

*a camera woman shoot *


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## AUz

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Unbelievable!
> 
> The military did cross the line by now.



YOUR BLOODY NATION SUPPORTED/CRAFTED THIS!

Weren't Saudis jumping in joy when legitimate ruler of Egypt was ousted?

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## AUz

Where are all the bloody military-supporting idiots now?

Egyptian Military burned down camps, shot 17 year old girl, brutally murdered 250 people...and the world is silent! No one cares...because guess what? "Liberals" only care about themselves and their agenda!

Where are Americans? Western media? Where are Egyptian Liberals?

Now, everyone with a heart and a rational mind will support Muslim Brotherhood! Morsi atleast let people to protest..while when Muslim Brotherhood protests, you murder them and burn their children?

WHAT AN INJUSTICE! My blood is boiling right now!

My leader, Imran Khan, was right when he said "Liberals are scum of Pakistan!"...

The fake, western-slave, so called 'liberals' of Muslim world are nothing but scum (very few of 'em are actual liberals..majority of them are just anti-humanity leeches working on Western payroll)!!!!

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## Yzd Khalifa

why you hate me so much  Even though you hate us, we " the Saudis " love you  



AUz said:


> YOUR BLOODY NATION SUPPORTED/CRAFTED THIS!
> 
> Weren't Saudis jumping in joy when legitimate ruler of Egypt was ousted?



Have we overthrown him ourselves? Did I call on the Eggy people to bang into the streets? 
@Aeronaut 
It's time to take side

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## islamrules

*Ahmed Ali Sunbul, a pharmasist shahid inshallah *


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## iranigirl2

*U.S. Condemns Crackdown but Announces No Policy Shift*


The Obama administration on Wednesday condemned the Egyptian military&#8217;s bloody crackdown on Muslim Brotherhood protesters, but showed no signs of taking any tough steps, like suspending American aid, in response. 





http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/15/w...ptian-militarys-crackdown.html?pagewanted=all


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## idune

iranigirl2 said:


> *U.S. Condemns Crackdown but Announces No Policy Shift*
> 
> 
> The Obama administration on Wednesday condemned the Egyptian military&#8217;s bloody crackdown on Muslim Brotherhood protesters, but showed no signs of taking any tough steps, like suspending American aid, in response.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/15/w...ptian-militarys-crackdown.html?pagewanted=all




This is pure and simple US deception and hogwash. US is supporting Egyptian army 100% on these massacres only to have an anchor for Zion nation. And Saudi rulers are brought in for their money in exchange for their "perceived" dominance as US-zion subservient.

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## islamrules

Cheikh Mohammed Hassan one of the few wise knowledgable people of our time, he tried to contact sisi's gang, they told him :" the time for words is over " , so he and cheikh Ya'koub went to mohammed mahmoud square , where he said to the muslims : we will no longer speak, our blood is not more precious than urs " . he then called upon all muslims to defect from this military.
he blacked out and he is now in the hospital , may Allah preserve him to his ummah


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## kalu_miah

Jihad_ said:


> Are u a Christian?



Yes. I have seen from posts, way back.



islamrules said:


> it's ex General Safwat Zayat , he said that some people inside the police and military told him that the police were picked up based on how much they hate islamists, and most of them were christians . the military knew the situation can't go on like that , but the reaction was devastating for them , the protesters took over 7 provinces in 5 hours and burned down 10 police departements in one day



Sisi is dumber than I though he is.

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## BlueWarrior

Tell me when defectors announce Free Egyptian Army (FEA) lol

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## islamrules

*I want the UAE leaders to look at these people they helped kill and burn*


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## islamrules

Flickr: Mosa'aberising's Photostream


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## AUz

Jihad_ said:


> Are u a Christian?



Yes he is.

An Assad Supporting Syrian Christian...

Islam-hating Christians of Arabia, special Coptics, would be having Christmas festival right now...They'll be dancing with joy over deaths of Muslims at the hand of Western-Slave Army of Egypt....

(Many, not all) Christians hate Islam more than they love Jesus. A Fact.

People who have experience with Christians know this quite well!!!!

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## islamrules

*so hatefull an brainless .*





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1405011879720011


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## islamrules

*in this Mortuary called "zinhom" , they have no room for bodies so they had to put them outside *









*in Damanhour a man's brain on the street after a police car crushed his head (Ayman salam) *





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1405010926386773

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## Doritos11

AUz said:


> Yes he is.
> 
> An Assad Supporting Syrian Christian...
> 
> Islam-hating Christians of Arabia, special Coptics, would be having Christmas festival right now...They'll be dancing with joy over deaths of Muslims at the hand of Western-Slave Army of Egypt....
> 
> (Many, not all) Christians hate Islam more than they love Jesus. A Fact.
> 
> People who have experience with Christians know this quite well!!!!



Only the old generation, ignorant people with barely any knowledge about the middle east repeating the usual stuff that we all kill each other and are violent.


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## islamrules

*more shuhada*




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1405007719720427





*man cries as he hols his killed baby *





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1405007376387128


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## islamrules

sorry for the shuhada but the truth must come out


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## islamrules




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## islamrules

*this is not burma or Syria but Egypt *


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## islamrules

*explain this smile *


----------



## islamrules

*I found 170 pictures can't post them all , but this one summs it all *






here 

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.708787262481698.1073741890.691858730841218&type=1


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## islamrules

*some weapons they found in Rabia *

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## islamrules

the true story about this police vehicule 

Pro-Morsi throwing stones at a police vehicle (9 tons of weight) on October bridge while the driver reverse rapidly







The police vehicle hits the bridge wall and fells off

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## That Guy

Sisi just dug his own grave, no one in the world is going to support this crackdown, even the US condemned it.

Not to mention that the only person that gave the military it's legitimacy (Muhammad El Baradei) just resigned. Though, he is mostly to blame for this violence, if he didn't give the coup legitimacy, maybe this violence could have been avoided.

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## islamrules




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## S.U.R.B.

Using snipers against civilians who are unarmed......I've no words to describe this massacre.Human beings are slaughtered like animals.When there are dozens of methods available to disperse the mob then why go on a killing spree?




> One doctor at the hospital, who gave his name only as Ahmed, said that even the Israeli invasion of Gaza in 2008 had not been as bad.
> 
> I was working there as a medic during that battle, he told The Independent. The Jews were much more humane that what is happening today. Even in war, the rules are more respectable than this."





For the members contributing to this thread.I humbly request you to just add the links of the graphic images with a tag of Graphic content.You can't judge who'll be watching this and who can take this while who can't.Just to be careful to not inflict any harm to someone unintentionally.

For example...

*Graphic Image.*

http://www.globalpost.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gp3_fullpage/photos/2013-August/img_2749.jpg
(_The bodies of pro-Morsi demonstrators are aligned on the floor of a makeshift morgue outside the Rabaa al-Adaweya mosque in Cairo, where supporters of the former president have staged a weeks-long sit-in. Security forces clamped down on the demonstration, and health officials say 149 people were killed in the ensuing violence._)

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## RKhan

Just a heads up to those who say that the Morsi supporters are unarmed. 53 policemen didn't kill themselves. 5 churches didn't burn themselves down.

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## monitor




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## arushbhai

Over 2500 Mursi supporters were slaughtered and over 10,000 are injured in the last 24 hours.

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## islamrules

*this is Rabia hospital burned down n the bodies inside it*


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## darkinsky

the so called liberal movement to over throw the inept government has resulted in humanity crises now and they are quiet?



islamrules said:


> *this is Rabia hospital burned down n the bodies inside it*
> 
> https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p526x296/1185407_633832716635108_190987425_n.jpg[/MG]
> [IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/p480x480/521991_4608570071135_288051435_n.jpg[/IM]
> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p480x480/1098097_4608713914731_2015491605_n.jpg[/QUOTE]
> 
> please avoid posting grapic pictures, dont use image tags only links


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## monitor

^^^ such a horrific picture please edit it . military have committed a massacre in cold blood . how can they burn down a mosque where lot of people inside it .


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## Jihad_

I agree, please put gruesome pics in a link




*AlArabiya_Eng: UAE says it understands the sovereign measures taken by Egyptian authorities. *


http://************/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/4139.jpg

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## islamrules

*another masacre in Suhaj city *


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## Jihad_

If you "conspire to kill anti-Morsi protesters" you're a criminal. If you conspire to kill pro-Morsi protesters, you're the government.

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## islamrules

*hundreds if not 1 thousand dead bodies in one masjid *





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10201768268949469





*the zinhoum mortuary full *

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## BlueWarrior

Why would the police scums burn the raba mosque down?


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## Jihad_

AUz said:


> Yes he is.
> 
> *An Assad Supporting Syrian Christian...*
> 
> Islam-hating Christians of Arabia, special Coptics, would be having Christmas festival right now...They'll be dancing with joy over deaths of Muslims at the hand of Western-Slave Army of Egypt....
> 
> (Many, not all) Christians hate Islam more than they love Jesus. A Fact.
> 
> People who have experience with Christians know this quite well!!!!



Now I understand.


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## AUz

This is supposedly Egypt's "own" Army...What. A. Shame. !!!!!!!!

This should be an eye-opener for the Muslims of the whole world. Their 'armies' are the biggest institutional anchors through which West controls Islamic Societies...

Muslims should stop venerating their 'armies' now...and take things in their own hands!

Islamic World needs structural changes and significant reforms. Without a fundamental redistribution of land, wealth, and power...Muslims have no future in 21st century.

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## idune

AUz said:


> This is supposedly Egypt's "own" Army...What. A. Shame. !!!!!!!!
> 
> This should be an eye-opener for the Muslims of the whole world. Their 'armies' are the biggest institutional anchors through which West controls Islamic Societies...
> 
> Muslims should stop venerating their 'armies' now...and take things in their own hands!



Assistance and training are western excuse for infiltration and turn an army to a marcenary force. That is what we have seen across all major Muslim countries.

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## hussain0216

Muslims are a massive force, 1.7 billion and growing we will hit 2 billion soon enough

So much land, so much resources.

But we have these liberal jahil haramii kaffir wannabe's sitting on our chests, chouting whabbi this, mullah that


These liberals are the biggest scums in the world and will support any massacre of muslims (or as they call islamists)



For the longest time I have had no issue with the Taliban or AQ or anyone targetting christians or jews or hindu's or anyone..

These scums target us, they kill muslims, the liberal slime kill muslims. In fact the liberal slime are more violent and brutal against muslims then the kaffir



Something has to be done the banner of islam is our ONLY banner. Muslims numbers increasing isnt enough our iman must increase and we must take action to take control of our lands and lives

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## islamrules

Cheikh Safwat Hijazy arrested 






*+18 video *


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## islamrules

*this is how the masjid of Rabia was burned along with everything in there *


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## Hussein

arushbhai said:


> Over 2500 Mursi supporters were slaughtered and over 10,000 are injured in the last 24 hours.



it would be better if people give source...


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## iPhone

Could somebody bring me up to speed on these horrific inidents? Cuz last I checked fireworks were going on in tahrir sq in celebration of Morsi's ousting. And look whats happening now!


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## The SiLent crY

RIP to the victims . This is Saudi Arabian and American money + weapon killing people in Egypt .

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## hussain0216

As much as I like Saudi Arabia they are at fault due to their dumb shitery of supporting this monkey sisi...

Mobs and protests are no substitute for free and fair elections.

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## islamrules

iPhone said:


> Could somebody bring me up to speed on these horrific inidents? Cuz last I checked fireworks were going on in tahrir sq in celebration of Morsi's ousting. And look whats happening now!



they gathered all of the police in civil clothings n thugs n military and all christians in tahrir that day and then payed a pornographic guy to film them from a heli . then declared a holly zionist crusade on the muslims killing more than 5000 so far


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## iranigirl2

hussain0216 said:


> As much as I like Saudi Arabia they are at fault due to their dumb shitery of supporting this monkey sisi...
> 
> Mobs and protests are no substitute for free and fair elections.





They were preparing for this for a long time. 

This article was written in February, *predicted *and explains the coup that took place in Egypt a month ago.



Israel, Saudi Arabia and US preparing a coup in Egypt


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## ELTurco

*Turkish PM calls for UNSC to convene on Egypt, accuses West of hypocrisy *







15 August 2013 / TODAYSZAMAN.COM, &#304;STANBUL 

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdo&#287;an on Thursday called for the UN Security Council to convene quickly and take action after what he described as a massacre in Egypt.




"Those who remain silent in the face of this massacre are as guilty as those who carried it out. The UN Security Council must convene quickly," Erdo&#287;an told a news conference before his departure from Ankara Esenbo&#287;a Airport for Turkmenistan on Thursday morning.

Erdo&#287;an criticized the stance of the West on Egypt, noting that Western powers have avoided calling the military intervention in Egypt a coup. During our telephone conversations, they don't deny that a coup has been staged in Egypt but when talking to the public they speak differently, he said.

Continuing his strong rhetoric against the West's stance on Egypt, Erdo&#287;an stated that in order to pass what he called the democracy test, the West should understand that Egyptians are asking for their democratic rights.

If Western countries fail in taking sincere steps, the world will start to question democracy. Staging a coup to save democracy is nothing but [using democracy as] an excuse. [According to the West] the army staged a coup to save democracy in Egypt. This shows the hypocrisy of the West, the prime minister said.

Erdo&#287;an claimed that there was an embargo against Egypt during Mohammed Morsi's one-year presidential period by the Western countries and also by the International Monetary Fund (IMF). They have done the same in Palestine too. We do not forget what has happened in Palestine. There are traps staged in the Muslim world and they're a threat to Turkey too. A strong Turkey is not wanted, he added.

After calling on the UN Security Council to convene on Egypt, the Turkish prime minister said: I am telling the Western countries: You've kept quiet on Palestine, on Gaza, and are keeping quiet on Egypt. After this moment, how are you going to be able to talk about democracy or human rights? How are you going to talk about humanistic values while people are killed in front of your eyes?

Erdo&#287;an later slammed the Western media for calling Wednesday's massacre, an operation by the interim government of Egypt. Considering their live coverage of the [Gezi Park] incidents in Turkey, how many more people have to get killed [in Egypt] for international media to see the truth? he asked.

Speaking on the day of Wednesday's massacre, Erdo&#287;an stated that the international community's failure to criticize the coup encouraged the Egyptian authorities to carry out Wednesday's violent crackdown, adding that Egypt's administration is responsible for the violent deaths that have occurred in the country since June 30.

We harshly condemn the Egyptian government for using violence against peaceful demonstrations. Opening fire on civilians who are not engaged in any violent action and targeting them with snipers constitute serious crimes, said Erdo&#287;an.

Turkish President Abdullah Gül also called the armed intervention "completely unacceptable," warning that the crisis in Egypt would have an impact on the entire Muslim world.

"Armed intervention against civilians, against people demonstrating, is completely unacceptable. I fear Egypt will be dragged into chaos. This is a dead end," Gül told reporters in the Turkish capital, Ankara.

Gül warned that Egypt's fate could be the same as Syria's, recalling that the Syrian crisis also began when security forces fired on peaceful civilian protesters. Army intervention against civilians brings events to this point, he said.


Turkish PM calls for UNSC to convene on Egypt, accuses West of hypocrisy - Today's Zaman, your gateway to Turkish daily news

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## iranigirl2

*Israel, Saudi Arabia and US preparing a coup in Egypt*


Wednesday, 13 February 2013


Imperialism and Israel have never reconciled themselves to the 2011 overthrow of their client Mubarakist regime in Egypt. Israel and the US perfectly understand that not only is Egypt the most populous Arab state but it is the decisive one from the point of view of any military confrontation with the Zionist state.

*The Saudi Arabian dictatorship, concerned above all with its own survival, is terrified by any unrest in the Arab world and looks to the US and Israel as the only reliable pillars to support it. *



None of them consider the moderate Muslim Brotherhood dominated presidency of Mohamed Morsi radical. But nothing other than the purest of client regimes in Egypt is acceptable to the US, Israel or Saudi Arabia. *They are therefore determined to restore a Mubarakist regime, without the former dictator, in Egypt*.

This is the background to the recent disorder in Egypt, where violent demonstrations in the main cities have left more than sixty dead and thousands injured. Rioting has been widespread, the Presidential Palace in Cairo assaulted with Molotov cocktails and guns fired at a prison, police stations and court house in Port Said.

It is clear that Egypt&#8217;s security forces, which are still dominated by supporters of Mubarakism, stood aside in a number of these violent attacks. Armed protestors were allowed to rampage and create chaos.

*The clear aim is to create conditions in which the army and security forces can carry out a coup d&#8217;etat utilising the claim that the country is descending into chaos and therefore they have no option than to step in to &#8216;save the country&#8217;*.

This goal is now beginning to be made explicit. The week before last the Army warned it may seize political control. Raising the need to restore order, its chief, *Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi*, who is also Defence Minister, pronounced that &#8216;the political strife is pushing the state to the brink of collapse.&#8217;

President Morsi has handed control of three provinces to the military; Port Said, Ismailia and Suez are now declared subject to a state of emergency.

However, the army and other Mubarakist forces in the security services are not yet able to stage a coup, as the opposition to themselves and corresponding support for Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood is still too strong. Therefore the Mubarakists strategic aim is to deepen the chaos and therefore create more favourable conditions for a coup.

Egypt&#8217;s unfolding economic crisis

The background to these events is Egypt&#8217;s steadily worsening economic situation and slide towards open financial crisis. The country is running out of the foreign currency it requires to import basic necessities.

It is estimated that reserves will barely cover three months of the currently inadequate level of fuel and food imports.

Overall the economic situation is deteriorating. GDP growth has slowed from 7.2 per cent in 2008 to an estimated 1.5 per cent in 2012. Industrial output and employment continued falling in the second half of last year. As a result Egypt&#8217;s currency (Egyptian pound) is rapidly losing value, having dropped nearly 10 per cent already this year.

Egypt&#8217;s government currently needs a significant inflow of funds to avoid a crisis. Recent loans from Qatar ($2.5bn) and Turkey ($2bn) have provided some relief. Iran&#8217;s President Ahmadinejad last week also offered a credit line.

But those with the greatest access to funds are deliberately holding back from providing support as their aim is to destabilise the situation in Egypt in order to prepare a coup.

Israel, Saudi Arabia and US

Saudi Arabia sits on immense reserves from its oil revenues, which last year left its government with a budget surplus of $102bn. A fraction of this would halt the Egyptian crisis, but it is not on offer.

US assistance, which is part of an IMF loan package, is also currently on hold. This IMF loan of $4.8 billion has been agreed and will unblock an additional $9bn of funds, but is not being released.

Whilst this loan is due to provide Egypt with much needed up-front funds, the punitive conditions attached will impose further hardship on the population. Austerity measures of tax hikes and subsidy reductions have been &#8216;backloaded&#8217; to start later this year.

In short those who want Egypt&#8217;s regime changed back are weakening its government by holding back the funds it needs.

*The goals of Israel, the US and Saudi Arabia are clear. Whatever its moderation the Muslim Brotherhood Presidency has weakened the power of the US, Israel, Saudi axis in the region.*

Whilst President Morsi does not intend to overturn the fundamentals of the Israel-Egypt Treaty, he did constrain Israel&#8217;s recent assault on Gaza and has helped to strengthen Hamas.

*Morsi&#8217;s discussions with China and the rapprochement with Iran, both of which differ from the pure clientalism of Mubarak, are not desirable for imperialism or Israel.*


The Muslim Brotherhood&#8217;s advance in the region has also bolstered opposition movements in the Gulf States, a process the Saudi monarchy wants to reverse.

Muslim Brotherhood government

The election of President Morsi last June, decisively defeating the former regime candidate, naturally led to imperialism seeking ways to influence the Muslim Brotherhood &#8211; which imperialism perfectly understands is not a radical anti-imperialist force. But this is purely an enforced tactical shift. Nothing other than a pure client state is strategically acceptable for imperialism in Egypt.

So far Morsi has been able to rely on substantial popular support against the Mubarakists. His constitutional changes were endorsed &#8211; the Referendum result was 63.8 per cent &#8216;for&#8217; and 36.2 per cent &#8216;against&#8217;, on a turnout of 32.9 per cent. This is too wide a margin of popular support for Morsi, and against the Mubarakists, to risk an immediate coup.

Hence the need to promote economic and political chaos to prepare better conditions for a coup.

Of course the Muslim Brotherhood, having no solution to the country&#8217;s economic crisis, also permits the economic chaos to deepen. Without financial support from either imperialism or Saudi Arabia, solving the economic situation would require measures going against significant capitalist interests. As the Brotherhood itself is allied to sections of Egyptian capital, it is not even considering such steps.

Therefore discontent has been spreading. Since last Autumn waves of protest have been escalating, and these followed on from a summer strike wave. This discontent will deepen as living standards continue to decline.

The reality of Egyptian &#8216;secularism&#8217;

When President Morsi issued the constitutional decree granting himself powers to overrule the Mubarakist judiciary last November, followed by the constitutional referendum, pro-imperialist forces took advantage of the political confusion on the issues to bring some left forces in Egypt under their political leadership.

Mubarak-era minister Amr Moussa and the pro-Western liberal Mohamed El Baradei used the banner of &#8216;secularism&#8217; to bring &#8216;left&#8217; nationalist Hamdeen Sabahi into a &#8216;National Salvation Front&#8217; to oppose Morsi. They forced Morsi to retreat from his constitutional decree and have organised the protests demanding Morsi hand over power.

*As the Mubarakists well understand that the only force strong enough to take over from Morsi at present is the army this was regarded as a partial victory by imperialism &#8211; although one then nullified by the outcome of the referendum itself.*

The Mubarakists are using sections of the Egyptian left to cover over their own goals. At last June&#8217;s Presidential election final round &#8216;left&#8217; nationalist Sabahi, who had come third in first round, declined to endorse Morsi. He claimed the choice between the Muslim Brotherhood and Mubarak&#8217;s former prime minister Ahmed Shafik was between a &#8216;tyranny in the name of the state&#8217; and &#8216;tyranny in the name of religion&#8217; &#8211; a position which totally neglected the real alignment of social forces in Egypt, which is one in which imperialism and Mubarakism were solidly supporting Shafik.

*The NSF strategy is to create disorder and prepare conditions for a coup*. Its coordinator, Mohamed ElBaradei, tweeted last week: &#8216;Writing on wall: violence & chaos will continue until Morsi & co. listen 2 ppl's demands&#8217;. Such calls are used by the Mubarak loyalists within the alliance, and by the security forces, to build up the case that the army will have to step in to &#8216;restore order&#8217;.

*In these preparations for a coup Israel, Saudi Arabia and US will doubtless not only be objectively coordinating with the Mubarakists but also helping guide their actions.*


There are still formidable obstacles for imperialism and its clients in Egypt. The memory of the revolution, and of the craven and vile dictatorship of Mubarak is recent, the results of the referendum show forces opposed to Mubarakism still have a significant majority.

*But there should be no illusions. Israel, the US, and Saudi Arabia are attempting to prepare the conditions for a Mubarakist coup d&#8217;etat in Egypt.*


The chief task of the left is to do everything possible to prevent this strategy being crowned by success.


Israel, Saudi Arabia and US preparing a coup in Egypt


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## Hussein

islamrules said:


> they gathered all of the police in civil clothings n thugs n military and all christians in tahrir that day and then payed a pornographic guy to film them from a heli . then declared a holly zionist crusade on the muslims killing more than 5000 so far


any source ?


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## ELTurco

*Turkey strongly condemns attack in Egypt, calls for int'l action*








14 August 2013 /TODAYSZAMAN.COM WITH REUTERS, &#304;STANBUL 

Turkey strongly condemned the recent crackdown by Egyptian security forces on supporters of the country's ousted President Mohammed Morsi, calling on the UN Security Council and the Arab League to take immediate steps to stop the "massacre" in Egypt.




"The international community, especially the UN Security Council and the Arab League, must act immediately to stop this massacre," Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdo&#287;an's office said in a statement.

Erdo&#287;an said on Wednesday that the international community's failure to criticize the coup encouraged the Egyptian authorities to carry out Wednesday's violent crackdown, adding that Egypt's administration is responsible for the violent deaths that have occurred in the country since June 30.

&#8220;We harshly condemn the Egyptian government for using violence against peaceful demonstrations. Opening fire on civilians who are not engaged in any violent action and targeting them with snipers constitute serious crimes,&#8221; said Erdo&#287;an, adding that Turkey is concerned about the situation in Egypt.

Egyptian security forces backed by armored cars and bulldozers moved on Wednesday to clear two sit-in camps of Morsi's supporters, showering protesters with tear gas as the sound of gunfire rang out at both sites, state television and security officials said.

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood (MB) said at least 200 people were killed and over 5,000 injured in the police crackdown.

Turkish President Abdullah Gül also said the armed intervention was "completely unacceptable," warning that the crisis in Egypt would have an impact on the entire Muslim world.

"Armed intervention against civilians, on people demonstrating, is completely unacceptable. I fear Egypt will be dragged into chaos. This is a dead end," Gül told reporters in the Turkish capital, Ankara.

Gül warned that Egypt's fate could be the same as Syria's, recalling that the Syrian crisis also began when security forces fired on peaceful civilian protesters. &#8220;Army intervention against civilians brings events to this point,&#8221; said Gül.

The Turkish president called on the Egyptian factions to act with common sense. &#8220;The first thing to do is free the elected president and hold transparent elections in which everyone can participate. If the incidents continue, Egypt's ascent to democracy will take a long time. Developments in Egypt concern us,&#8221; added Gül.

Turkey has emerged as one of the fiercest international critics of what it has called an "unacceptable coup" after Egypt's military ousted the elected Morsi.

Turkish politicians have also strongly condemned the intervention from their Twitter accounts and called on the international community to take action against this bloody intervention from Egypt's security forces.

Turkey's ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party) Deputy Chairman Numan Kurtulmu&#351; expressed his concerns about the incidents in Egypt from his Twitter account. He defined the police intervention as a &#8220;massacre&#8221; and stated his &#8220;deep sadness&#8221; about the incidents. Blaming the international community, Kurtulmu&#351; said that those who keep silent or support the coup are most responsible for the incidents in Cairo. The deputy reiterated that Turkey is with the Egyptian nation and it will continue to speak for Egyptians.

&#304;brahim Kal&#305;n, Erdo&#287;an's chief advisor, maintained via his Twitter account that the aim of the month-long campaigns against the MB and those who reject the coup is to legitimize killing people. &#8220;For months, they demonized and de-humanized the Muslim Brotherhood and those who stood against the coup; now they're saying it's okay to kill them. Where is reason or conscience?&#8221; he said.

Culture and Tourism Minister Ömer Çelik also directed his criticisms externally, saying that the incident in Egypt is as much a test for the international community as it is for Egypt, and he accused foreign countries of turning the principles they value into empty words.

Osman Faruk Lo&#287;o&#287;lu, deputy chairman of Turkey's main opposition Republican People's Party (CHP), also condemned the recent crackdown, calling on the international community to take action.

&#8220;We are very sad and concerned about these developments [in Egypt],&#8221; Lo&#287;o&#287;lu said.

Speaker of the Parliament Cemil Çiçek, AK Party Deputy Chairman Hüseyin Çelik and Deputy Prime Minister Bekir Bozda&#287; also condemned the attack in the strongest terms, asking the international community to act immediately.

&#8220;The imperialist games played with Muslim people should come to an end,&#8221; added Çiçek.

Turkish FM calls his counterparts to discuss Egypt

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davuto&#287;lu met his Qatari, German and Saudi counterparts to discuss the recent crackdown in Egypt. According to diplomatic sources, Davuto&#287;lu will continue these talks.

From his Twitter account, Davuto&#287;lu stated that the intervention against peaceful protesters demanding their democratic rights is unacceptable, urging the administration in Cairo to bring an end to the massacre.

He added that the international community's silence should end, noting that everyone should understand that the developments in Egypt do not serve democracy.

&#8220;The West's attitude in this test should be carefully followed by the people of the entire world. If they don't stand on the right side today, they won't be able to give anyone lessons in democracy tomorrow,&#8221; said Davuto&#287;lu.


Turkey strongly condemns attack in Egypt, calls for int'l action - Today's Zaman, your gateway to Turkish daily news

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## islamrules

the media turning the criminal into a victim

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## islamrules



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## islamrules

sniper shooting a guy to prevent him from filming 





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=201979969963306


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## islamrules

there is 315 body in madsjid al yaman alone

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## islamrules

Dr Mahatir Mohammed urging the protesters to stand up to Sisi n his dogs

al jiza : 9 police departs burned down


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## islamrules

*no comment !!
*





*Snipers
*





*Soon inshallah *


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## doublemaster

Hussein said:


> any source ?


Its not so hard to think that military and police also mixed with people in Tahrir. 
Whatever is the case, It is impossible that half of the egypt was present in Tahrir Square...

Crowd at the time of Haj: I think Saudi claims around 2 to 3 million. It will almost show exact number because almost every one is registered. Few thousands illegal + some extra voluteers might be present. But egyptial army claims 33 million...Bloddy half of egypt...Probaby some of the provinces were empty that time...Do they have logistics to support that much movement?
_http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/files/2010/11/arafat-1.jpg_

You compare the images of Tahrir at the time of fall of Mubarak, at the time of anty morsy protest...i dont see much difference in crowd..It is impossible that crowd can be more because at the time of mubarak fall every grp participated in protest....

This is bloody coup...Just like decades ago what happened in Iran...


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## islamrules

a very horrific material 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1402911596599393


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## islamrules

In 2008/2009, israel waged a 23 days war on Gaza named harbul furkan killing 1440 and injuring 5500 .
In November 2012, they waged a 7 days war killing 189 and injuring 1000 n they lost it to the mujahedines 
Today, the Docs in Rabia square's field hospital reported before they were cracked down , they reported that the entire hospital was crowded with dead bodies even the stairs, they counted 2200 shahid n 10000 injured , then the military n police came in and burned them of course desperatly trying to cover their crimes


----------



## BlueWarrior

ELTurco said:


> *Turkey strongly condemns attack in Egypt, calls for int'l action*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14 August 2013 /TODAYSZAMAN.COM WITH REUTERS, &#304;STANBUL
> 
> Turkey strongly condemned the recent crackdown by Egyptian security forces on supporters of the country's ousted President Mohammed Morsi, calling on the UN Security Council and the Arab League to take immediate steps to stop the "massacre" in Egypt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The international community, especially the UN Security Council and the Arab League, must act immediately to stop this massacre," Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdo&#287;an's office said in a statement.
> 
> Erdo&#287;an said on Wednesday that the international community's failure to criticize the coup encouraged the Egyptian authorities to carry out Wednesday's violent crackdown, adding that Egypt's administration is responsible for the violent deaths that have occurred in the country since June 30.
> 
> We harshly condemn the Egyptian government for using violence against peaceful demonstrations. Opening fire on civilians who are not engaged in any violent action and targeting them with snipers constitute serious crimes, said Erdo&#287;an, adding that Turkey is concerned about the situation in Egypt.
> 
> Egyptian security forces backed by armored cars and bulldozers moved on Wednesday to clear two sit-in camps of Morsi's supporters, showering protesters with tear gas as the sound of gunfire rang out at both sites, state television and security officials said.
> 
> Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood (MB) said at least 200 people were killed and over 5,000 injured in the police crackdown.
> 
> Turkish President Abdullah Gül also said the armed intervention was "completely unacceptable," warning that the crisis in Egypt would have an impact on the entire Muslim world.
> 
> "Armed intervention against civilians, on people demonstrating, is completely unacceptable. I fear Egypt will be dragged into chaos. This is a dead end," Gül told reporters in the Turkish capital, Ankara.
> 
> Gül warned that Egypt's fate could be the same as Syria's, recalling that the Syrian crisis also began when security forces fired on peaceful civilian protesters. Army intervention against civilians brings events to this point, said Gül.
> 
> The Turkish president called on the Egyptian factions to act with common sense. The first thing to do is free the elected president and hold transparent elections in which everyone can participate. If the incidents continue, Egypt's ascent to democracy will take a long time. Developments in Egypt concern us, added Gül.
> 
> Turkey has emerged as one of the fiercest international critics of what it has called an "unacceptable coup" after Egypt's military ousted the elected Morsi.
> 
> Turkish politicians have also strongly condemned the intervention from their Twitter accounts and called on the international community to take action against this bloody intervention from Egypt's security forces.
> 
> Turkey's ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party) Deputy Chairman Numan Kurtulmu&#351; expressed his concerns about the incidents in Egypt from his Twitter account. He defined the police intervention as a massacre and stated his deep sadness about the incidents. Blaming the international community, Kurtulmu&#351; said that those who keep silent or support the coup are most responsible for the incidents in Cairo. The deputy reiterated that Turkey is with the Egyptian nation and it will continue to speak for Egyptians.
> 
> &#304;brahim Kal&#305;n, Erdo&#287;an's chief advisor, maintained via his Twitter account that the aim of the month-long campaigns against the MB and those who reject the coup is to legitimize killing people. For months, they demonized and de-humanized the Muslim Brotherhood and those who stood against the coup; now they're saying it's okay to kill them. Where is reason or conscience? he said.
> 
> Culture and Tourism Minister Ömer Çelik also directed his criticisms externally, saying that the incident in Egypt is as much a test for the international community as it is for Egypt, and he accused foreign countries of turning the principles they value into empty words.
> 
> Osman Faruk Lo&#287;o&#287;lu, deputy chairman of Turkey's main opposition Republican People's Party (CHP), also condemned the recent crackdown, calling on the international community to take action.
> 
> We are very sad and concerned about these developments [in Egypt], Lo&#287;o&#287;lu said.
> 
> Speaker of the Parliament Cemil Çiçek, AK Party Deputy Chairman Hüseyin Çelik and Deputy Prime Minister Bekir Bozda&#287; also condemned the attack in the strongest terms, asking the international community to act immediately.
> 
> The imperialist games played with Muslim people should come to an end, added Çiçek.
> 
> Turkish FM calls his counterparts to discuss Egypt
> 
> Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davuto&#287;lu met his Qatari, German and Saudi counterparts to discuss the recent crackdown in Egypt. According to diplomatic sources, Davuto&#287;lu will continue these talks.
> 
> From his Twitter account, Davuto&#287;lu stated that the intervention against peaceful protesters demanding their democratic rights is unacceptable, urging the administration in Cairo to bring an end to the massacre.
> 
> He added that the international community's silence should end, noting that everyone should understand that the developments in Egypt do not serve democracy.
> 
> The West's attitude in this test should be carefully followed by the people of the entire world. If they don't stand on the right side today, they won't be able to give anyone lessons in democracy tomorrow, said Davuto&#287;lu.
> 
> 
> Turkey strongly condemns attack in Egypt, calls for int'l action - Today's Zaman, your gateway to Turkish daily news


lol remember the whole government attack on Erdogan months ago for the protest but nothing on egypt wut? This is f up man

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## islamrules



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## iranigirl2

*"Egypts military is important for Israel"*



Political unrest grapples Egypt, Kerry calls it


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## islamrules



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## iranigirl2

The death toll from nationwide political violence in Egypt has climbed to* 525* the health ministry said on Thursday.


Death toll from political violence in Egypt rises to 525 | Reuters


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## Yzd Khalifa

Egypt isn't your country, why are you so mad? 


iranigirl2 said:


> *"Egypts military is important for Israel"*
> 
> Political unrest grapples Egypt, Kerry calls it


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## PeaceGen

iranigirl2 said:


> The death toll from nationwide political violence in Egypt has climbed to* 525* the health ministry said on Thursday.
> 
> 
> Death toll from political violence in Egypt rises to 525 | Reuters



This is really sad news of course...

But we should note that the Muslim Brotherhood group in Egypt had weapons at the demonstration sites, and probably used them on the security forces during the crackdown.
If they had vacated the demonstration sites as peacefully as they sat there for over a month, then I think the casualty count would have been near to zero.

Once again, fundamentalist muslims; degrading a political conflict into violence (by bringing weapons to demonstrations for instance), only *gets you farther away from achieving your goals*.


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## Tanja

The silent streets of Cairo


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## darkinsky

wow, very horrible by the looks of BBC video

this exactly happens when the army is made to deal with civilian problems

but its still egypt's own army they should have observed restraint

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## darkinsky

islamrules said:


>









i was eating lunch


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## BlueWarrior

shot a woman on the chest in 0.20, what the f man







islamrules said:


>


lmao stupid

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## tesla

Tunisia: Ennahdha Party Statement on Egypt Massacre

Tunis, 14 August 2013

The coup authorities in Egypt have committed a massacre against peaceful protesters in Cairo squares and in other cities across Egypt killing hundreds and injuring thousands, including women and children. 

Ennahdha Party which is following with pain and great concern the ongoing crime:

1. Strongly condemns this crime against the people of Egypt and its revolution, and condemns the grave violations against women, children and other peaceful civilians.

2. Express its complete solidarity with the Egyptian people and their right to regain their freedom and their rejection of the overturning of their will.

3. Calls on all Egyptian, regional and international parties to assume their responsibilities in ending this terrible crime and supporting the Egyptian people's struggle against the coup.

Ennahdha Party

Rached Ghannouchi

Tunisia: Ennahdha Party Statement on Egypt Massacre - Ikhwanweb

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## tesla

Ghannouchi: Anyone with a shred of humanity must stand against this military brutality

Speaking to 'Al Mutawassit' channel TV station Tunisia's yesterday Ennahda leader Rashid Ghannouchi said; "What happened is a brutality committed not by humans but by monsters driven by hate and ready to burn the world for a cheap authority, and shows that they have no regard for humanity or religion.
Those who kill young girls, children, women, and point their guns at peaceful protesters, as testified by the whole world, are nothing but politically-bankrupt individuals.
This is a bankrupt elite merging the military with a greedy class and with pseudo-liberals. They have committed this third or fourth massacre during this month proving their bankruptcy and the greatness of what they call political Islam that has stood firm, and continues to stand firm, in squares against all odds, demonstrating their convictions in the true peaceful message of Islam and the principles of humanity, the right to freedom, democracy and human rights.
What they refer to as political Islam has shown great heroism in contrast to the terrible failure of pseudo-liberals, progressives and modernists. Today, the whole world is witnessing that failure, as are Tunisians who are witnessing the brutalities of the model some wish to import to Tunisia.
If we ask the protesters in the "Rahil" sit-in: Would you welcome that the Tunisian authorities does what the Egyptian authorities- which you support- have done? How do you describe these authorities? Why are you silent about these massacres committed one after another? Do you share any values with their perpetrators? What values? Or do you sacrifice all your values and principles because of hatred of Islamists? What is left of these principles and values when you remain silent about such brutal crimes, or, worse, justify them?
What happened in Egypt is a form of immunization of the Tunisian revolution, which needs to be immunized, because what happened in Egypt is a clear indication that the Egyptian model is not to be emulated in our country. Tunisia exported the revolution to Egypt and some people want to import one of the most brutal and violent military coups in history to Tunisia.
Anyone with a shred of humanity in the world must stand against this military brutality although we do not consider all of the Egyptian army responsible, but only its leadership which is determined to rule over people's dead bodies and must be condemned.
Why has the United Nations not acted, and why have governments, including the Tunisian government, not called on the Security Council to convene to condemn these savage acts? Moreover the thinkers of the world and human rights organizations must all denounce this crime."
Ghannouchi: Anyone with a shred of humanity must stand against this military brutality

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## tesla

Algeria must boycott relations with coup government in Egypt, says politicians

Tens of activists gathered on Wednesday next to MSP party&#8217;s headquarters to protest against massacres in Egypt. They condemned the military coup and called for legitimacy and democracy.

Boudjemaa Ghachir: coup supporters&#8217; presence in Algeria justifies their crime

President of the Algerian League of Human Rights Boudjemaa Ghachir said the presence of the Egyptian government&#8217;s representatives in Algeria justifies the massacres against Egyptian people.

He called on Cairo-based Arab Organization of Human Rights and all the human rights activists to unify to stop bloodshed in Egypt.

He also called on the Algerian government to remain attached to its positions and principles.

Farouk Ksentini: I coordinate with Boutrous Ghali to stop the crime

Chairman of the National Consultative Commission for the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights Farouk Ksentini described the killings among Egyptian protesters as a &#8220;full crime&#8221; and violation of human rights international charters.

&#8220;I am in contact with different human rights activists and lawyers in Egypt including chairman of the Egyptian Commission if Human Rights Boutrous Ghali to stop this massacre,&#8221; Ksentini told Echorouk on the phone on Wednesday.

&#8220;Egyptians have the right to protest as their rights were taken. The international community has to bear its responsibilities and open an international investigation,&#8221; he added.

Abu Djerra Soltani: repression led to bloodshed

Former leader of Algeria&#8217;s MSP party Abu Djerra Soltani said what is happening in Egypt is an automatic result of legitimacy violation.

He warned against the continuing imprisonment of Egypt&#8217;s leaders. &#8220;Coup supporters are held responsible for this bloodshed.&#8221;

Saida Ben Hebilis: all the parts are responsible for the killing of innocents

Human rights activist and politician Saida Ben Hebilis held all the parts in the conflict in Egypt responsible for the bloodshed.

&#8220;I warned in my articles about the Arab Spring&#8217;s Revolutions in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya against anarchy and massacres. Those revolutions are a Zionist plan meant to destroy Arab and Muslim people.&#8221; she said.

She believes that the Arab Spring&#8217;s Revolution masterminds succeeded in their plans and gained its fruit in collective massacres in Egypt.

Abdellah Djaballah: Algeria has to suspend its relations with coup supporters

Leader of the Justice and Development front Abdellah Djaballah called on Algerian authorities and the international community to suspend their relation with coup supporters in Egypt following their crimes.*

He adbised Egyptian soldiers and policemen to not obey their leaders because they are repressive orders.

He also called on the international community to bear its responsibilities regarding those crimes ad massacres in Egypt.

Echorouk Online - Algeria must boycott relations with coup government in Egypt, says politicians

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## Algeria

Juice said:


> I always laugh when Muslims play the Hitler card.....what defined Hitler? Hate for Jews....what defines Muslims? The same.



Hitler isn't defined by his hatred for Jews and neither are Muslims. 
It is a fact that Christianity is the most anti-Jewish religion in history. 
How can Jews survive in Yemen for 1500 years if Islam was intrinsically anti-Jewish?
When Christians ethnically cleansed Jews and Muslims from Spain, many Jews fled to other Muslim lands to live the life like they had in Andalusia.

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## Algeria

tesla said:


> Algeria must boycott relations with coup government in Egypt, says politicians



It won't happen, Algeria supports the coup.


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## Hussein

Algeria said:


> Hitler isn't defined by his hatred for Jews and neither are Muslims.
> It is a fact that Christianity is the most anti-Jewish religion in history.
> How can Jews survive in Yemen for 1500 years if Islam was intrinsically anti-Jewish?
> When Christians ethnically cleansed Jews and Muslims from Spain, many Jews fled to other Muslim lands to live the life like they had in Andalusia.


lol
Hitler is very famous for genocide of Jews. Anyway @Juice Islamist is not the same than Muslim and even inside Islamists people think very different

Algeria you are a joke. In Yemen there are almost no Jew . From 50 000 they are now 300
so next time check google before speaking

They were some Christians killing Jews, and they are some Muslims killing Jews 
Andalousia seems to be very far away, sadly. I hope Islam would be a light again. Now it is darkness and violence.

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## iranigirl2

Juice said:


> I always laugh when Muslims play the Hitler card.....what defined Hitler? Hate for Jews....what defines Muslims? The same.



That just shows your total ignorance about the world.


Do you know how many Jews, Iranian saved from the Nazis??


and Persian Jews have lived in Iran for over 2,000 years, Muslims never wiped them out.


Yet, it was always the Europeans that kept killing Jews , first in Spain and then in Germany.




http://www.ibtimes.com/abdol-hossein-sardari-iranian-diplomat-who-saved-thousands-jews-nazis-1041064

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## Jihad_

Looks like Israel, going to beach, or do a picknick watching when people get slaughtered by the militairy.


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## agentny17

*US cancels military exercises with Egypt over violence, Obama condemns crackdown
*
Read more: US cancels military exercises with Egypt over violence, Obama condemns crackdown | Fox News

Poor Obama can't believe that his "vision" for the Middle East is not doable anymore!!

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## Hussein

Jihad_ said:


> Looks like Israel, going to beach, or do a picknick watching when people get slaughtered by the militairy.


Gaza is in hands of Israel? Why on the boat it is written Arabic ? Are you sure of what you said ?

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## Jihad_

Hussein said:


> Gaza is in hands of Israel? Why on the boat it is written Arabic ? Are you sure of what you said ?


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## Hussein

1/ presstv ? lol . you enjoy presstv now?
2/ they don't say about Egypt they say about Gaza border with Israel ! so it doesn't answer what you said about the picture

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## Jihad_

Well the city is burning, people getting slaughtered. Israelis go to the beach when it's militairy kills palestinans or do a picknick to the border to watch them get killed.


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## Hussein

ah man i believed you said about Egypt army lol .. why then this pic in the Egypt topic

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## Jihad_

Hussein said:


> Again show me on the map how can Israel be so near Egypt ??? And why it is written Arabic on the boat ???
> Some people did lie to you bro



I'm comparing it WITH Israel. I'm not saying it's Israel... This is Egypt... Like it say's, only in Egypt...

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## Jihad_

Al Qaeda leader's 'I told you so' on Egypt 



> Ayman al-Zawahiri, the Egyptian-born leader of al Qaeda, has seen this movie before: An Islamist party does well at the polling booth only to be overthrown by a military coup that then plunges the country into chaos.
> 
> This is what happened in Algeria in 1991. Tens of thousands died in the subsequent Algerian civil war that ripped the nation apart during the 1990s.
> 
> The lesson that Zawahiri drew from the Algerian war was that participating in democratic elections was strictly for suckers; far better to seize power through violence and then impose Taliban-style sharia law because "the crusaders" and their allies in the Arab world would never allow the emergence of a true Islamist state.
> 
> Now Zawahiri gets to say "I told you so." Earlier this month Zawahiri posted a 15-minute recording on militant websites. In the recording Zawahiri explained that the military coup that deposed Egypt's elected president, Muslim Brotherhood leader Mohamed Morsy, proved that democracy had failed.

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## islamrules

Juice said:


> I always laugh when Muslims play the Hitler card.....what defined Hitler? Hate for Jews....what defines Muslims? The same.



no, what we r going to do to the jews is justice , what hitler did was revenge

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## islamrules

Tanja said:


> The silent streets of Cairo



this is Rabia after Sisi burned it to the ground , the guy owner of the video wrote " the MB burning Cairo streets " !!


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## islamrules

iranigirl2 said:


> The death toll from nationwide political violence in Egypt has climbed to* 525* the health ministry said on Thursday.
> 
> 
> Death toll from political violence in Egypt rises to 525 | Reuters



health ministery is LYING , 2200 bodies reported by docs in Rabia alone

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## Ceylal

humanfirst said:


> How can you guys live with watered down history like that...?
> *The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews , when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him*.


You can find this quote in the bible too...
Islam always respected other religions, and Muslims saved and shielded jews from the nazi throughout Europe...I don't know where you gleaned your infos..

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## Yzd Khalifa

Ceylal said:


> You can find this quote in the bible too...
> Islam always respected other religions, and ******* saved and shielded jews from the nazi throughout Europe...I don't know where you gleaned your infos..



Bro, don't you think that the Egyptian armed forces are taking it too far? :/

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## islamrules

*This man is said isawi the very definition of a terrorist , he was responsible for killing many peacful protesters in Mansoura .
This is him in the UAE where he recieved trainement *


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## Ceylal

islamrules said:


> no, what we r going to do to the jews is* justice* , what hitler did was *revenge*


The world won't be able to differentiate your justice and hitler revenge...


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## Ceylal

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Bro, don't you think that the *Egyptian* armed forces are taking it too* fa*r? :/



There is no word that can express what the Egyptian army did...She played right in the hand of the MB's. The MB's wanted to show to the world that their stand was peaceful, even though they barricaded the streets , which is in itself, an act of rebellion and instead of the Egyptian army or the police taking action in the early days to disperse them, they acted 5 weeks later. The MB's wanted blood in the Egyptian army hands, they got it.

And with the ties that the Egyptian MB's have with their Lybian fellows and their open arsenal, no one can even forecast the future of Egypt.

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## hussain0216

We have been warned about the nature of the Jews, they were the enemies of the prophet, and they are our enemies now

The occupation of Jerusalem and oppression of Muslims by the Jews is an open declaration of war upon all Muslims


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## Yzd Khalifa

I agree, the armed forces should have tried to disperse them from the early days, but what about what's taking place in Sinai?


Ceylal said:


> There is no word that can express what the Egyptian army did...She played right in the hand of the MB's. *The MB's wanted to show to the world that their stand was peaceful, even though they barricaded the streets , which is in itself, an act of rebellion and instead of the Egyptian army or the police taking action in the early days to disperse them, they acted 5 weeks later. The MB's wanted blood in the Egyptian army hands, they got it.*
> 
> And with the ties that the Egyptian MB's have with their Lybian fellows and their open arsenal, no one can even forecast the future of Egypt.

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## Ceylal

Juice said:


> I always laugh when Muslims play the Hitler card.....what defined Hitler? Hate for Jews....what defines Muslims? T*he same*.



And what defines you and the Jews?


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## islamrules

*mass suicide according to Sisi's ministery of health .
Mortuaries refuse to hand over bodies to the relatives if they don't sign a certificate saying for exemple : " this guy has committed suicide (with 4 bullets in the head) " !!*

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## agentny17

islamrules said:


> this is Rabia after Sisi burned it to the ground , the guy owner of the video wrote " the MB burning Cairo streets " !!



Because they did!! They burned everything before they left!!



islamrules said:


> *This man is said isawi the very definition of a terrorist , he was responsible for killing many peacful protesters in Mansoura .
> This is him in the UAE where he recieved trainement *



WOW, are you a retard or something ?!!


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## kalu_miah

Ceylal said:


> There is no word that can express what the Egyptian army did...She played right in the hand of the MB's. The MB's wanted to show to the world that their stand was peaceful, even though they barricaded the streets , which is in itself, an act of rebellion and instead of the Egyptian army or the police taking action in the early days to disperse them, they acted 5 weeks later. *The MB's wanted blood in the Egyptian army hands, they got it.*
> 
> And with the ties that the Egyptian MB's have with their Lybian fellows and their open arsenal, no one can even forecast the future of Egypt.



So you agree that Sisi made a stupid move. What will MB do next? Is it going to be civil war, Syria style?

My personal opinion, the combination of Sisi-MB makes for a perfect combination for a civil war, and this is just the beginning. And regional govt.'s need to make contingency plans considering what the outcome may mean for them.

@Yzd Khalifa, in case of a civil war, what side do you think Salafi's will take and how about GCC govt.s?

Also lets keep in mind that a civil war in Egypt where Gulf govt.'s supporting the Army is a dream come true for Iran, who will inevitably support MB.

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## Ceylal

tesla said:


> Algeria must boycott relations with coup government in Egypt, says politicians
> 
> Tens of activists gathered on Wednesday next to MSP partys headquarters to protest against massacres in Egypt. They condemned the military coup and called for legitimacy and democracy.
> 
> Boudjemaa Ghachir: coup supporters presence in Algeria justifies their crime
> 
> President of the Algerian League of Human Rights Boudjemaa Ghachir said the presence of the Egyptian governments representatives in Algeria justifies the massacres against Egyptian people.
> 
> He called on Cairo-based Arab Organization of Human Rights and all the human rights activists to unify to stop bloodshed in Egypt.
> 
> He also called on the Algerian government to remain attached to its positions and principles.
> 
> Farouk Ksentini: I coordinate with Boutrous Ghali to stop the crime
> 
> Chairman of the National Consultative Commission for the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights Farouk Ksentini described the killings among Egyptian protesters as a full crime and violation of human rights international charters.
> 
> I am in contact with different human rights activists and lawyers in Egypt including chairman of the Egyptian Commission if Human Rights Boutrous Ghali to stop this massacre, Ksentini told Echorouk on the phone on Wednesday.
> 
> Egyptians have the right to protest as their rights were taken. The international community has to bear its responsibilities and open an international investigation, he added.
> 
> Abu Djerra Soltani: repression led to bloodshed
> 
> Former leader of Algerias MSP party Abu Djerra Soltani said what is happening in Egypt is an automatic result of legitimacy violation.
> 
> He warned against the continuing imprisonment of Egypts leaders. Coup supporters are held responsible for this bloodshed.
> 
> Saida Ben Hebilis: all the parts are responsible for the killing of innocents
> 
> Human rights activist and politician Saida Ben Hebilis held all the parts in the conflict in Egypt responsible for the bloodshed.
> 
> I warned in my articles about the Arab Springs Revolutions in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya against anarchy and massacres. Those revolutions are a Zionist plan meant to destroy Arab and Muslim people. she said.
> 
> She believes that the Arab Springs Revolution masterminds succeeded in their plans and gained its fruit in collective massacres in Egypt.
> 
> Abdellah Djaballah: Algeria has to suspend its relations with coup supporters
> 
> Leader of the Justice and Development front Abdellah Djaballah called on Algerian authorities and the international community to suspend their relation with coup supporters in Egypt following their crimes.*
> 
> He adbised Egyptian soldiers and policemen to not obey their leaders because they are repressive orders.
> 
> He also called on the international community to bear its responsibilities regarding those crimes ad massacres in Egypt.
> 
> Echorouk Online - Algeria must boycott relations with coup government in Egypt, says politicians



You cite echorouk...What do expect?
All the ones cited by the newspaper, The common Algerian is oblivious to their opinions or statements. We know what they did in the 90's and what they have done after being resuscitated by Bouteflika. Algerian may not like the Egyptian army's heavy hand, but they understand her action.


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## Serpentine

Respect...

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## agentny17

islamrules said:


> this is Rabia after Sisi burned it to the ground , the guy owner of the video wrote " the MB burning Cairo streets " !!


Video showing Muslim Brotherhood terrorists burning their own stuff before they left their sit-in.


----------



## Yzd Khalifa

The Salafists won't side with the Muslim Brotherhood at all. One thing the MB might use to gain their sympathy is by declaring a holy war, but, the Salafis are smarter than what the MB thinks, most prominent Salafi figures had already took a stance against the MB. 


kalu_miah said:


> @Yzd Khalifa, in case of a civil war, what side do you think Salafi's will take and how about GCC govt.s?



It is a complicated question  all I know is my country isn't happy about this.



agentny17 said:


> Video showing Muslim Brotherhood terrorists burning their own stuff before they left their sit-in.



I can't believe how smart the leftists were :o they befriended the Salafis! Why do you think the Salafis chose to stick it with you guys?

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## kalu_miah

self delete.


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## islamrules

agentny17 said:


> Because they did!! They burned everything before they left!!
> 
> WOW, are you a retard or something ?!!



they killed themselves and burned themselves up 

&#x202b;

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## agentny17

islamrules said:


> they killed themselves and burned themselves up
> 
> &#8235;



No, they didn't kill themselves, i never said that!! They burnt their stuff before they left their sit-ins as the videos i tagged you in shows. That is why the whole area looked on fire!! They also burnt a lot of police vehicles, and their is a lot of videos showing that!! Why do you think the average Egyptian citizen is against the Muslim Brotherhood ?!! Its because of stuff like that


----------



## Ceylal

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I agree, the armed forces should have tried to disperse them from the early days, but what about what's taking place in *Sinai*?


 Even though, its an Egyptian territory, The Peace treaty made it like a no man land. Plus the Sinai is the only area where the topography allows armed rebellion. The good thing, it is sparsely inhabitant, and it is in the army favor, since the troops won't be held to a certain moral fighting standard.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Arabic speakers 
@JUBA @Arabian Legend @BLACKEAGLE @Mosamania @Ceylal @Frogman @agentny17 @Mahmoud_EGY @tyrant 

What do you guys think about this interview ? 
http://www.alarabiya.net/ar/arab-an...1604;&#1583;&#1575;&#1606;&#1607;&#1605;.html



Ceylal said:


> Even though, its an Egyptian territory, The Peace treaty made it like a no man land. Plus the Sinai is the only area where the topography allows armed rebellion. The good thing, it is sparsely inhabitant, and it is in the army favor, since the troops won't be held to a certain moral fighting standard.



Yes, I'm well-aware of the Camp David stipulations, but we have to give them credits for what they did these days

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## kalu_miah

Yzd Khalifa said:


> The Salafists won't side with the Muslim Brotherhood at all. One thing the MB might use to gain their sympathy is by declaring a holy war, but, the Salafis are smarter than what the MB thinks, most prominent Salafi figures had already took a stance against the MB.
> 
> It is a complicated question  all I know is my country isn't happy about this.
> 
> I can't believe how smart the leftists were :o they befriended the Salafis! Why do you think the Salafis chose to stick it with you guys?



If a civil war breaks out, with MB on one side and Army on the other side, supported by Copts, liberals/seculars, then I am not sure how the Salafi's will side with the Army.

And like Ceylal said, Libyan arsenal will be open for them. If Salafi's do not side with them, is there a possibility that Iran will come to support MB, to boost their support within the Sunni Muslim world?

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## Yzd Khalifa

The Salafis listen to their leaders in Egypt, I'm not sure that all of them will disobey their elder ones. 


kalu_miah said:


> If a civil war breaks out, with MB on one side and Army on the other side, supported by Copts, liberals/seculars, then I am not sure how the Salafi's will side with the Army.
> 
> And like Ceylal said, Libyan arsenal will be open for them. If Salafi's do not side with them, is there a possibility that Iran will come to support MB, to boost their support within the Sunni Muslim world?


The MB is an ally of Iran, so I think maybe they might try to do such thing.

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## islamrules

there is two kinds of salafis, the free ones and the boot lovers , it took us a coup and 3000 shahid to realize that

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## Yzd Khalifa

islamrules said:


> there is two kinds of salafis, the free ones and the boot lovers , it took us a coup and 3000 shahid to realize that



Is Abu Ishaq Al Heweny a boot-lover? .-. 
Is MOHAMMAD RASLAN a boot-lover? .-. 
Is Mohammad Hasan a boot-lover? .-. 

How dare you?


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## kalu_miah

Yzd Khalifa said:


> The Salafis listen to their leaders in Egypt, I'm not sure that all of them will disobey their elder ones.
> The MB is an ally of Iran, so I think maybe they might try to do such thing.



The involvement of Iran to destabilize Egypt will be a nightmare scenario for GCC govt.'s I think. If I was in that situation, I would switch sides and support Sunni MB instead, just to prevent Iran's meddling in Egypt. But then that means writing off the Egyptian Army, Copts and secular/liberals - it is a difficult situation. After this latest round of bloodletting started by Sisi to crush MB, the coming weeks and months will be momentous for entire Mid-east region. Every global and regional geopolitical player will be maneuvering in case a civil war takes shape in Egypt.

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## islamrules

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Is Abu Ishaq Al Heweny a boot-lover? .-.
> Is MOHAMMAD RASLAN a boot-lover? .-.
> Is Mohammad Hasan a boot-lover? .-.
> 
> How dare you?


I don't know Rasalan , but u r outdated to what Mohammed Hassan n Hussein Ya'koub have done Yesterday


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## Yzd Khalifa

they both came in to meditate between the two groups concerned. 


islamrules said:


> I don't know Rasalan , but u r outdated to what Mohammed Hassan n Hussein Ya'koub have done Yesterday


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## islamrules

sheikh Mohammed Hassan said to the people there in Mohammed Mahmoud's stage that he tried to contact sisi's gang, they (the gang) told him :" the time for words is over " , so he and cheikh Ya'koub went to mohammed mahmoud, where he said to the protesters : we will no longer speak, our blood is not more precious than urs " , he blacked out and he is now in the hospital , may Allah preserve him to his ummah .

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## hussain0216

If iran support the M.B then I would respect and support Iran

What is wrong is wrong and what is right is right and sisi and the liberal scums are on the wrong side of both islam and right

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## kalu_miah

The other thing to remember is that MB has wide support base in many major Sunni majority Arab and Muslim countries of the world, including Egypt's neighbors, Libya and Tunisia. AKP in Turkey is another regional heavy weight with high sympathy for MB. The uniting of Sunni forces in Syria to route Iran and its proxies might face disarray, if Iran gets the opportunity to support MB. It might mean a realignment of geopolitical forces in play in the region.

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## Serpentine

Yzd Khalifa said:


> The MB is an ally of Iran, so I think maybe they might try to do such thing.



How did you conclude that MB is ally of Iran?
The only thing these 2 aren't is 'ally'. Iran has problems with MB in Syria now and its relations with Morsi were not good either.

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## kalu_miah

Serpentine said:


> How did you conclude that MB is ally of Iran?
> The only thing these 2 aren't is 'ally'. Iran has problems with MB in Syria now and its relations with Morsi were not good either.



I think he meant "potential" ally.


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## Serpentine

kalu_miah said:


> I think he meant "potential" ally.



Not even that.
Maybe it's hard to digest, but generally, secular Sunni Arabs like El Beradei are much better for Iran rather than MBs or other Islamists.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Serpentine said:


> How did you conclude that MB is ally of Iran?
> The only thing these 2 aren't is 'ally'. Iran has problems with MB in Syria now and its relations with Morsi were not good either.



Who gave and shipped the weapons to the MB? Who sat the camps in Sub-Saharan Africa? You may love your country, but we don't dislike you.



kalu_miah said:


> I think he meant "potential" ally.



No, I said an ally not a potential ally.

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## kalu_miah

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Who gave and shipped the weapons to the MB? Who sat the camps in Sub-Saharan Africa? You may love your country, but we don't dislike you.
> 
> No, I said an ally not a potential ally.



But didn't the alliance between MB and Iran ended during the current Syrian conflict? Hamas broke off with Iran recently I think and Morsi was giving speeches to send fighters to Syria to fight Assad, one month before he was toppled.


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## Serpentine

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Who gave and shipped the weapons to the MB? Who sat the camps in Sub-Saharan Africa? You may love your country, but we don't dislike you.
> 
> No, I said an ally not a potential ally.



What weapons exactly? Can you prove that Iran has shipped any weapons to MB of Egypt?
I know you don't like Iran, but you should try to be the rational enemy here. The only thing Iran and KSA shared regarding Egypt is that they both had problems with MB.

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## hussain0216

If Iran were smart they would make numerous statement in support of M.B justice islam etc

The current egyptian regime already hate iran so iran loses nothing by supporting M.B and when the M.B orcconservatives come back to power they would remember what Iran did

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## Yzd Khalifa

kalu_miah said:


> But didn't the alliance between MB and Iran ended during the current Syrian conflict? Hamas broke off with Iran recently I think and Morsi was giving speeches to send fighters to Syria to fight Assad, one month before he was toppled.


Morsi was trying to save his face a few weeks prior to the uprising bro. 

Thanks for the Qataris for their help to the Gazans. Now, Iran can stop signed its $23 million dollars checks per month for good!

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## BLACKEAGLE

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Arabic speakers
> @JUBA @Arabian Legend @BLACKEAGLE @Mosamania @Ceylal @Frogman @agentny17 @Mahmoud_EGY @tyrant
> 
> What do you guys think about this interview ?
> http://www.alarabiya.net/ar/arab-an...1604;&#1583;&#1575;&#1606;&#1607;&#1605;.html
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm well-aware of the Camp David stipulations, but we have to give them credits for what they did these days



I believe it's true. Given that the Jordanian MP is almost the most active branch after the Egyptian one, I have been observing them for quite a while. I came to a conclusion that they can't be trusted at all. They would pretend to be peaceful and take advantage of every single law to their advantage including demonstrations, sit-ins, propaganda and incitement. But when they feel that the time is right under the right circumstances they would use all means to achieve their goals, be it terrorism or treason or anything else. 

They follow the saying "The end justifies the means". 

They are as well back-stabbers, we remember how brutal leftest Arab regimes were with the MB in several Arab countries. They were brutally massacred and the the only countries that embraced them and offered them refuge were Jordan and the GCC especially the KSA. But as soon as they found a footprint in those countries they started spitting their venom against their regimes. In a comment about this, prince Faisal said that "letting the MB was a mistake that we won't ever make again". Jordan and HM king Hussein himself suffered allot for their help to the MB in Syria during the 70s which was concluded with a mass massacre of them in Hamah in 1982.

This is not Islam Yzd. Muslims are not ungrateful and backstabbers.

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## Yzd Khalifa

You know with whom I'm troubled let just take off your mask and mines  


Serpentine said:


> What weapons exactly? Can you prove that Iran has shipped any weapons to MB of Egypt?
> I know you don't like Iran, but you should try to be the rational enemy here. The only thing Iran and KSA shared regarding Egypt is that they both had problems with MB.



You will want to check out the Egyptian militaris press briefs to see for yourself.


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## BDforever

So far 525 people died ...


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## islamrules

the salafis are not enemies of Iran nor is the MB an ally of Iran, the MB's economic advisors wanned to open up to all the world including the Iranians, they were stupid, also they say somethings that I personaly can't swallow, they have some serious disgusting deviations regarding the religion of the shia . but I believe events in Sham r with no doubt an eye opening to the next MB generation, meanwhile the salafis boot lovers were barging all year about Morsi's blind eye on the shia infiltration of Egypt, but now, the r silent about the secularisation of the constitution they helped write . the war on islam in Egypt couldn't be more ferocious, the burning of masjids by thugs n the coptic gangs black block (masjid al kaid ibrahim in Alexandria foe exemple ), the murder n attacks on bearded n niqabi sisters (Mansoura for exemple) .... the only explanation is that hizbu nur is created by the Egyptian secret services .

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## kalu_miah

hussain0216 said:


> If Iran were smart they would make numerous statement in support of M.B justice islam etc
> 
> The current egyptian regime already hate iran so iran loses nothing by supporting M.B and when the M.B orcconservatives come back to power they would remember what Iran did



Iran is making statements against the coup and is condemning the current Army brutal crackdown of MB. This is a golden opportunity for Iran to bridge the Shia-Sunni divide and isolate Salafi's as sectarian extremists.

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## iranigirl2

islamrules said:


> the salafis are not enemies of Iran nor is the MB an ally of Iran, the MB's economic advisors wanned to open up to all the world including the Iranians, they were stupid, also they say somethings that I personaly can't swallow, they have some serious disgusting deviations regarding the religion of the shia . but I believe events in Sham r with no doubt an eye opening to the next MB generation, meanwhile the salafis boot lovers were barging all year about Morsi's blind eye on the shia infiltration of Egypt, but now, the r silent about the secularisation of the constitution they helped write . the war on islam in Egypt couldn't be more ferocious, the burning of masjids by thugs n the coptic gangs black block (masjid al kaid ibrahim in Alexandria foe exemple ), the murder n attacks on bearded n niqabi sisters (Mansoura for exemple) .... the only explanation is that hizbu nur is created by the Egyptian secret services .



Noor party is an extension of Saudi Secret service.


In my opinion El Baradei would be the best leader of Egypt.


But Saudis don't like him at all.


and Jews practically hate his guts...


But the chances of him coming to power is not good.


and He is the only one that resigned and condemned the actions of Egyptians army yesterday.


*so yes he is a secular leader, but he has way more dignity and respect for his people that anyone else in Egypt right now.*

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## Yzd Khalifa

BDforever said:


> So far 525 people died ...



Actually, 638 passed away. 

R.I.P

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## kalu_miah

islamrules said:


> the salafis are not enemies of Iran nor is the MB an ally of Iran, the MB's economic advisors wanned to open up to all the world including the Iranians, they were stupid, also they say somethings that I personaly can't swallow, they have some serious disgusting deviations regarding the religion of the shia . but I believe events in Sham r with no doubt an eye opening to the next MB generation, meanwhile the salafis boot lovers were barging all year about Morsi's blind eye on the shia infiltration of Egypt, but now, the r silent about the secularisation of the constitution they helped write . the war on islam in Egypt couldn't be more ferocious, the burning of masjids by thugs n the coptic gangs black block (masjid al kaid ibrahim in Alexandria foe exemple ), the murder n attacks on bearded n niqabi sisters (Mansoura for exemple) .... the only explanation is that hizbu nur is created by the Egyptian secret services .



One of the most important quality of a warrior is agility and flexibility. One has to see opportunity quickly and take advantage of it. The Syrian war was a golden opportunity for MB to embrace GCC govt.'s and come together with them. But looking at what @Yzd Khalifa mentioned in his post, Morsi was playing catching up and lip service till very late and not mending their relationship quickly enough with GCC govt.'s and distance themselves from Iran. I think this was the crucial mistake that allowed Army, secular/liberals and Copts to pounce on them and get rid of them, at the expense of the larger Sunni Muslim world interest. Now this killing of hundreds if not thousands has created the possibility of a civil war and hence a great opening for Iran.

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## iranigirl2

The Egyptian nation used to be one the biggest supporters of the Palestinian nation but now it is being pushed toward a civil war just the same as Tunisia, Libya etc. 
Israeli politician, Danny Ayalon, stated in 2010 that in order to ensure the security of Israel other Muslim countries must be divided into smaller countries.
This statement is a clear evidence that shows the unrest in Egypt has been created by U.S. and Israeli intelligence services.





We are concerned about what is happening in #Egypt. Considering the things that are being done in this country, the idea that a #CivilWar may break out in Egypt is gaining strength on a daily basis and this is a disaster. It is necessary for the great people of Egypt and #political, #scientific and #religious personalities in this country to take a look at the current situation and see what catastrophic consequences this situation may have. They should see the current situation in #Syria. They should see the consequences of the presence of western and #Zionist mercenaries and #terrorists wherever they are active. They should see these dangers. 

The intervention of foreign powers - the way it is witnessed in the present time - will produce nothing except for loss and harm. The problems of Egypt should be solved by the people of Egypt and the outstanding personalities of Egypt. They should think about the catastrophic and dangerous consequences of this situation. If, #God forbid, there is #mayhem and if, God forbid, a civil war breaks out, what can then preclude this? In such conditions, there will be excuse for the intervention of superpowers which are the greatest disaster for any country and #nation.

We are concerned. We would like to offer a #brotherly piece of advice to outstanding Egyptian personalities, the people of Egypt, political and religious groups and religious scholars. They should think of a solution on their own and adopt this solution on their own. They should not allow foreigners and powers - whose intelligence services have, most likely, played a role in creating this situation - to make more interventions.
In all these events, the Zionist regime and usurpers sit and watch this situation with satisfaction and they feel comfort. Should this be allowed to continue?

Ayatollah #Khamenei, 06/08/2013


Source:https://www.facebook.com/Iran.Military


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## kalu_miah

iranigirl2 said:


> Noor party is an extension of Saudi Secret service.
> 
> In my opinion El Baradei would be the best leader of Egypt.
> 
> But Saudis don't like him at all.
> 
> and Jews practically hate his guts...
> 
> But the chances of him coming to power is not good.
> 
> and He is the only one that resigned and condemned the actions of Egyptians army yesterday.
> 
> *so yes he is a secular leader, but he has way more dignity and respect for his people that anyone else in Egypt right now.*



It is not a question of who prefers who and who is the right leader, but who has public support and who wins the election, if the Army ever allows an election again that is, and does not exclude any specific political party or group from election.


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## islamrules

BLACKEAGLE said:


> I believe it's true. Given that the Jordanian MP is almost the most active branch after the Egyptian one, I have been observing them for quite a while. I came to a conclusion that they can't be trusted at all. They would pretend to be peaceful and take advantage of every single law to their advantage including demonstrations, sit-ins, propaganda and incitement. But when they feel that the time is right under the right circumstances they would use all means to achieve their goals, be it terrorism or treason or anything else.
> 
> They follow the saying "The end justifies the means".
> 
> They are as well back-stabbers, we remember how brutal leftest Arab regimes were with the MB in several Arab countries. They were brutally massacred and the the only countries that embraced them and offered them refuge were Jordan and the GCC especially the KSA. But as soon as they found a footprint in those countries they started spitting their venom against their regimes. In a comment about this, prince Faisal said that "letting the MB was a mistake that we won't ever make again". Jordan and HM king Hussein himself suffered allot for their help to the MB in Syria during the 70s which was concluded with a mass massacre of them in Hamah in 1982.
> 
> This is not Islam Yzd. Muslims are not ungrateful and backstabbers.



The Saudies have their mistakes, but they apply some of charia but when it comes to treason n backstabbing ur jordanian leadership is the best at that , it's not like if the US wants the Kings n princes off their chairs so they would ally with the MB, it's not like if the Iranians want ur king out so they pay the MB to oust him , and yet ur media keeps talking about the MB and their invisible foreign allies n their evil organization that wants to bring about a totalitarian evil empire ... . 
The Jordanian army is an extention of the US army , ur king Cries on the tomb of the devil attashirk, that king of urs is the strategic ALLY of the jews and the US n they wouldn't know what to do with out him , what is this if not backstabbing the muslim ummah, in the first month he backstabbed Morsi n visited that fool in itihadia , I don't know a traitor bigger than ur king.

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## iranigirl2

*Israel's plans for the middle east.*

NATO's Plan to Divide the Middle East, Oded Yonin, Bernard Lewis - YouTube


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## kalu_miah

islamrules said:


> The Saudies have their mistakes, but they apply some of charia but when it comes to treason n backstabbing ur jordanian leadership is the best at that , it's not like if the US wants the Kings n princes off their chairs so they would ally with the MB, it's not like if the Iranians want ur king out so they pay the MB to oust him , and yet ur media keeps talking about the MB and their invisible foreign allies n their evil organization that wants to bring about a totalitarian evil empire ... .
> The Jordanian army is an extention of the US army , ur king Cries on the tomb of the devil attashirk, that king of urs is the strategic ALLY of the jews and the US n they wouldn't know what to do with out him , what is this if not backstabbing the muslim ummah, in the first month he backstabbed Morsi n visited that fool in itihadia , I don't know a traitor bigger than ur king.



Bro, you need to study Sun Tzu a bit:

Sun Tzu - Wikiquote


> It is the rule in war, if ten times the enemy's strength, surround them; if five times, attack them; if double, be able to divide them; if equal, engage them; if fewer, be able to evade them; if weaker, be able to avoid them.



There are manageable threats and unmanageable threats, enemy's you can take on and enemy's you cannot take on, because they are just too big and powerful to beat. The West supported Monarch's are here to stay just like Israel is here to stay, as long as the West controls this planet with 50% of world GDP.

Till the time you are strong enough to take them on, they must remain ally's or at least neutral. And why not MB make a deal with them, that the Monarchies will be protected by MB and not touched by MB, in return, the Monarchies will support MB and its affiliates in all other Sunni Muslim majority countries, so that MB can work together with other pro-democracy elements to bring genuine democracies. I think this is the best practical course forward for Sunni Muslim majority countries. It will bring together moderate pro-democracy MB and Salafists. Antagonizing and plotting against the Monarchies will only drive them further to enemy camps who will use them and give them protection and hamper the advancing of Sunni Muslim interest.


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## iranigirl2

*Great analysis.*


CNN Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com


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## BLACKEAGLE

islamrules said:


> The Saudies have their mistakes, but they apply some of charia but when it comes to treason n backstabbing ur jordanian leadership is the best at that , it's not like if the US wants the Kings n princes off their chairs so they would ally with the MB, it's not like if the Iranians want ur king out so they pay the MB to oust him , and yet ur media keeps talking about the MB and their invisible foreign allies n their evil organization that wants to bring about a totalitarian evil empire ... .
> The Jordanian army is an extention of the US army , ur king Cries on the tomb of the devil attashirk, that king of urs is the strategic ALLY of the jews and the US n they wouldn't know what to do with out him , what is this if not backstabbing the muslim ummah, in the first month he backstabbed Morsi n visited that fool in itihadia , I don't know a traitor bigger than ur king.



We won't allow lunatics to write our past and future. Letting Egyptian MB to rule was a mistake that will not happen ever again.

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## kalu_miah

BLACKEAGLE said:


> We won't allow lunatics to write our past and future. Letting Egyptian MB to rule was a mistake that will not happen ever again.



Bro, I understand your reservation for them, but if you look at Turkey, the Islamists eventually came to power. People can be killed, but it is hard to kill an idea, that can evolve and become better with time.

One day Islamists may loose relevance in the Arab and Muslim world, but the next few decades they are here to stay. So it is better to deal with them in a practical way rather than trying to eliminate them with force.

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## islamrules

The police vehicule that fell off October bridge


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## islamrules

&#x202b;


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## bad boy 8

Saudi Members help me out a bit i'm still confused about the egypt situation.Was mursi an iranian tout or not ? abdal siisi is anti iranian ,that much i know

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## Yzd Khalifa

Babe, before pointing your lushy fingers you should learn the fallowing :- 

the Saudi secret service is the " intelligence " service. It's known as Al-Mabahith. The external agency is the external intelligence service.  

Currently, I hardly think the " Saudi Secret Service " has the time to play with the MB  


iranigirl2 said:


> Noor party is an extension of Saudi Secret service.





Ammad Malik said:


> Saudi Members help me out a bit i'm still confused about the egypt situation.Was mursi an iranian tout or not ? abdal siisi is anti iranian ,that much i know



Well, the MB is a sellout for the time being, but Al-Sisi isn't a puppet of anyone, he took it too far, it seems.

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## bad boy 8

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Babe, before pointing your lushy fingers you should learn the fallowing :-
> 
> the Saudi secret service is the " intelligence " service. It's known as Al-Mabahith. The external agency is the external intelligence service.
> 
> Currently, I hardly think the " Saudi Secret Service " has the time to play with the MB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the MB is a sellout for the time being, but Al-Sisi isn't a puppet of anyone, he took it too far, it seems.



I just want to know mursi's iranian stance brother.

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## Yzd Khalifa

I'm fully aware of their dirty activities as well, I don't think the MB is willing to stick the knife on its throat  


BLACKEAGLE said:


> *Jordan and HM king Hussein himself suffered allot for their help to the MB in Syria during the 70s which was concluded with a mass massacre of them in Hamah in 1982.
> *
> This is not Islam Yzd. Muslims are not ungrateful and backstabbers.





Ammad Malik said:


> I just want to know mursi's iranian stance brother.



Well, 

He normalized Egypt's relations with Iran, and the Egyptians didn't like it. Some Iranians were locked up in jail, and their TV stations were closed down after the oust of Morsi, that's all.

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## bad boy 8

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I'm fully aware of their dirty activities as well, I don't think the MB is willing to stick the knife on its throat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well,
> 
> He normalized Egypt's relations with Iran, and the Egyptians didn't like it. Some Iranians were locked up in jail, and their TV stations were closed down after the oust of Morsi, that's all.



There you go ! Mursi can go to hell


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## JUBA

*R.I.P to all the victims*

@Yzd Khalifa Dude stay neutral and don't bring KSA into this, It's an Egyptian matter that concern Egyptians only, we dont have the right to talk on their behalf, we only wish peace for our Egyptian brothers and hopefully the situation in their country will get better.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Ammad Malik said:


> There you go ! Mursi can go to hell



But something must be done to stop the bleeding, escalating the conflict any further will result into nothing but a pre-civil war scenario.





You mean my response to @BLACKEAGLE above ^ 

Well, he was talking about the situation overall in the region which includes his and our countries 


JUBA said:


> *R.I.P to all the victims*
> 
> @Yzd Khalifa Dude stay neutral and don't bring KSA into this, It's an Egyptian matter that concern Egyptians only, we dont have the right to talk on their behalf, we only wish peace for our Egyptian brothers and hopefully the situation in their country will get better.

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## iranigirl2

islamrules said:


> The police vehicule that fell off October bridge





That's funny, the media was saying Muris supporters pushed the vehicle off the bridge, Another LIE.


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## Syrian Lion

Christian Churches Attacked, Burn All Over Egypt | Christian News


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## Syrian Lion

*Foreign interests in Egypt: &#8216;UK, US, and Qatar might be behind the violent clashes&#8217; &#8211; expert
*



Foreign interests in Egypt: 'UK, US, and Qatar might be behind the | nsnbc international

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## islamrules

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Some Iranians were locked up in jail, and their TV stations were closed down after the oust of Morsi, that's all.



Sisi is not against the shia , he putted Baradei who has a good thing for Iran ( he's wife is iranian ) , not only that , shia secretly supported the coup 
Ø´ÙØ¹Ø© ÙØµØ±: ÙØ§Ù ÙÙØ§ Ø¯ÙØ± ÙÙ ØªÙØ±Ø¯ Ø£Ø³ÙØ§Ø· ÙØ±Ø³Ù ÙØ§ÙÙÙØ§Ø¨ÙÙÙ - ÙØ·Ù


and here is a shia Egyptian magazine released after the coup :
http://www.ansarportsaid.net/News/30450/Default.aspx

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## iranigirl2

islamrules said:


> Sisi is not against the shia , he putted Baradei who has a good thing for Iran ( he's wife is iranian ) , not only that , shia secretly supported the coup Ø´Ù&#352;Ø¹Ø© Ù&#8230;ØµØ±: Ù&#402;Ø§Ù&#8224; Ù&#8222;Ù&#8224;Ø§ Ø¯Ù&#710;Ø± ÙÙ&#352; ØªÙ&#8230;Ø±Ø¯ Ø£Ø³Ù&#8218;Ø§Ø· Ù&#8230;Ø±Ø³Ù&#352; Ù&#710;Ø§Ù&#8222;Ù&#710;Ù&#8225;Ø§Ø¨Ù&#352;Ù&#352;Ù&#8224; - Ù&#710;Ø·Ù&#8224;
> 
> 
> and here is a shia Egyptian magazine released after the coup :
> http://www.ansarportsaid.net/News/30450/Default.aspx





LOL, so it's a shia conspiracy? 


Just so you know most Modern Egyptian rulers were married to Iranians, It doesn't mean anything.



*Gamal Abdel Nasser's* wife was also Iranian, and he was the most Pan-Arab leader ever!


So, don't write stupid conspiracies please.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Slow down bro!

I don't buy any conspiracies these days. 





islamrules said:


> Sisi is not against the shia , he putted Baradei who has a good thing for Iran ( he's wife is iranian ) , not only that , shia secretly supported the coup
> Ø´ÙØ¹Ø© ÙØµØ±: ÙØ§Ù ÙÙØ§ Ø¯ÙØ± ÙÙ ØªÙØ±Ø¯ Ø£Ø³ÙØ§Ø· ÙØ±Ø³Ù ÙØ§ÙÙÙØ§Ø¨ÙÙÙ - ÙØ·Ù
> 
> 
> and here is a shia Egyptian magazine released after the coup :
> http://www.ansarportsaid.net/News/30450/Default.aspx

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## islamrules

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Slow down bro!
> 
> I don't buy any conspiracies these days.



I am saying that if u have &#1594;&#1610;&#1585;&#1577; on this deen n condemn the MB for 'opening up' to the shia in Egypt , u should be outraged at Sisi as u r at the MB , if not for killing thousands then for opening up to the shia just like the MB did . same thing for the Boot licking salafis of Hizbu nur who claim to fight shia infiltration when they allied with the christians n seculars to bring about this anti islamic regime .

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## fallstuff

If this was Morsi slaughtering 10% of what the military did, there would be no fly zone in Cairo.
The Egyptian military is not ready or willing to share power. They believe that MBs are conservative, hence the *civilized *world will look the other way when the get butchered.

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## Yzd Khalifa

islamrules said:


> I am saying that if u have &#1594;&#1610;&#1585;&#1577; on this deen n condemn the MB for 'opening up' to the shia in Egypt , u should be outraged at Sisi as u r at the MB , if not for killing thousands then for opening up to the shia just like the MB did . same thing for the Boot licking salafis of Hizbu nur who claim to fight shia infiltration when they allied with the christians n seculars to bring about this anti islamic regime .



Honesty is the best policy, I condemn both of them.



fallstuff said:


> If this was Morsi slaughtering 10% of what the military did, there would be no fly zone in Cairo.
> The Egyptian military is not ready or willing to share power. They believe that MBs are conservative, hence the *civilized *world will look the other way when the get butchered.



I don't think so, no fly zone? :/

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## fallstuff

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Honesty is the best policy, I condemn both of them.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think so, no fly zone? :/



That was a figurative post. 

However, there would be call for Morsis head even with a 10% loss of opponent activists lives.

My take is if the military is capable of butchering the protesters by the hundreds on a whim, they probably killed Morsi by now.

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## fallstuff

fallstuff said:


> If this was Morsi slaughtering 10% of what the military did, there would be no fly zone in Cairo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Egyptian military is not ready or willing to share power. *They believe that MBs are conservative, hence the civilized world will look the o*ther way when the get butchered.



Sen. John McCain slammed the Obama Administration on Thursday, saying the president did not go far enough in responding to the outbreak of violence in Egypt.
No, of course not, the Arizona Republican told CNNs Wolf Blitzer when asked if the president responded adequately this afternoon by cancelling joint military exercises with Egypt. We violated our own rule of law by not calling it for what it is because our law clearly states that if its a military coup, then aid is cut off. So initially we undercut our own valuesThats a blow to credibility.


The veteran politician said that Secretary of State also did not help the problem when he gave a statement at the beginning of the month saying that the generals of the Egyptian military restoring democracy, when Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and McCain were in Egypt at the presidents request.



*He argued that Kerrys statement gave a degree of legitimacy to a non-elected government that was appointed by generals, and that the statement might have been interpreted as a green light to take whatever action necessary to put down any opposition.*

Read more: John McCain hits Obama, Kerry on Egypt - Breanna Edwards - POLITICO.com

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## Yzd Khalifa

fallstuff said:


> That was a figurative post.
> 
> However, there would be call for Morsis head even with a 10% loss of opponent activists lives.
> 
> *My take is if the military is capable of butchering the protesters by the hundreds on a whim, they probably killed Morsi by now*.



Agree. But the MB was also responsible for the chaos in Sinai as well.


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## hussain0216

The M.B are responsible for nothing an elected government has been overthrown and peaceful protests have been attacked killing hundreds

The kaffir egyotian military is to blame and their scum liberal supporters


The Muslims of Egypt now have no choice but to fight to defend tthemselves and take back their nation

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## fallstuff

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Agree. But the MB was also responsible for the chaos in Sinai as well.



This was a brute show of power that the military can crush anything with extreme prejudice. 

It seems like Israeli military folks are boy-scouts comparing to the Egyptian military.

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## Syrian Lion

Egypt recalls its ambassador in Turkey: report | Reuters


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## islamrules

this is Sisi's PM . He accualy resigned in 2011 , because of Maspiro events that caused the death of 20 christians


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## hussain0216

If you look at the Western supporters of the egyptisn military

They are jew and Israel supporters to the last

That tells you everything

The egyptian military is as much an enemy of Muslims as any one else it needs to be dealt with

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## ELTurco

Syrian Lion said:


> Egypt recalls its ambassador in Turkey: report | Reuters



good riddance

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## islamrules

Sisi is a Kaffir following the path of his kaffir predecessor the perished one in killing innocent muslims

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## islamrules



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## idune

JUBA said:


> *R.I.P to all the victims*
> 
> @Yzd Khalifa Dude stay neutral and don't bring KSA into this, It's an Egyptian matter that concern Egyptians only, we dont have the right to talk on their behalf, we only wish peace for our Egyptian brothers and hopefully the situation in their country will get better.



But Saudi involvement in bringing sisi into power and subsequent support by house of Saud already deeply implicated Saudis and house of Saud more specifically. Blood in house of Saud hand can not be washed off. It's too late. And it's too bad Saudi people who do not like house of saud genocidal acts throughout ME, do not have any way or willingness to express their resentments.

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## Yzd Khalifa

I can see the Safavid-like mentality in every post you make. 


idune said:


> But Saudi involvement in bringing sisi into power and subsequent support by house of Saud already deeply implicated Saudis and house of Saud more specifically. Blood in house of Saud hand can not be washed off. It's too late. And it's too bad Saudi people who do not like house of saud genocidal acts throughout ME, do not have any way or willingness to express their resentments.



Go run to your masters

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## Brutas

Syria, Iraq, Lebanon & now Egypt again. These savages could learn something from Israel (jews from over 150 nations live side by side) and EU (27 nations, each with their own language, culture, religious differences, living side by side without killing each other to death ) ! Barbarian bedouin savages are themselves their biggest enemy.


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## kalu_miah

Egypt erupts as security forces attack Morsi supporters - The Washington Post

*Egypt erupts as security forces attack Morsi supporters*
By Editorial Board, Published: August 14

BEFORE THE July 3 coup in Egypt, the Obama administration privately warned the armed forces against ousting the government of Mohamed Morsi, pointing to U.S. legislation that requires the cutoff of aid to any country where the army plays a decisive role in removing an elected government. Yet when the generals ignored the U.S. warnings, the White House responded by electing to disregard the law itself. After a prolonged and embarrassing delay, the State Department announced that it had chosen not to determine whether a coup had taken place, and Secretary of State John F. Kerry declared that Egypts military was restoring democracy.

Because of those decisions, the Obama administration is complicit in the new and horrifyingly bloody crackdown launched Wednesday by the de facto regime against tens of thousands of protesters who had camped out in two Cairo squares. At least 278 people were reported killed, including many women and children. Chaos erupted around Egypt as angry mobs stormed Christian churches, which went largely unprotected by security forces. The military imposed a state of emergency, essentially returning Egypt to the autocratic status quo that existed before the 2011 revolution.

The Obama administration duly protested the latest crackdown, just as it previously urged the miltary not to use force against the demonstrations and to release Mr. Morsi and other political prisoners. The militarys disregard for these appeals was logical and predictable: Washington had already demonstrated that its warnings were not credible. Indeed, even as police were still gunning down unarmed civilians in the streets of Cairo Wednesday, a White House spokesman was reiterating to reporters the administrations determination not to make a judgement about whether the terms of the anti-coup legislation had been met.

This refusal to take a firm stand against massive violations of human rights is as self-defeating for the United States as it is unconscionable. Continued U.S. support for the Egyptian military is helping to push the country toward a new dictatorship rather than a restored democracy. Gen. Abdel Fatah al-Sissi, the coup leader, increasingly is styling himself as a national savior in the mode of such former dictators asGamal Abdel Nasser; Wednesdays bloody assault represents his crushing of civilian moderates in the interim cabinet who had called for compromise with Mr. Morsis Muslim Brotherhood. Appropriately, their leader, Vice President Mohamed ElBaradei, resigned.

It is difficult to imagine how the assault on the Brotherhood, which won multiple elections and is still supported by millions of Egyptians, can be followed by a credible transition to democracy. More likely, it will lead Egypt toward still greater violence. It may be that outside powers cannot now change this tragic course of events. But if the United States wishes to have some chance to influence a country that has been its close ally for four decades, it must immediately change its policy toward the armed forces. That means the complete suspension of all aid and cooperation, coupled with the message that relations will resume when  and if  the generals end their campaign of repression and take tangible steps to restore democracy.

More articles calling for withdrawal of US grant for Egypt's military:
Jackson Diehl: Obama&rsquo;s dangerous passivity on Egypt on display - The Washington Post
Events in Egypt demand a shift in U.S. policy

Why Islamism and Brotherhood will survive in Egypt:
In Egypt, the popularity of Islamism shall endure - The Washington Post


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## islamrules

horrific scenes 






kuffars took off the black clothes as a sign that the islamic era is over


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## islamrules



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## fallstuff

hussain0216 said:


> If you look at the Western supporters of the egyptisn military
> 
> They are jew and Israel supporters to the last
> 
> That tells you everything
> 
> The egyptian military is as much an enemy of Muslims as any one else it needs to be dealt with



Jews or Israel got nothing to do with this carnage. 

Its a tale of greed for power and money with a twist of self obsession.

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## JUBA

idune said:


> But Saudi involvement in bringing sisi into power and subsequent support by house of Saud already deeply implicated Saudis and house of Saud more specifically. Blood in house of Saud hand can not be washed off. It's too late. And it's too bad Saudi people who do not like house of saud genocidal acts throughout ME, do not have any way or willingness to express their resentments.



Saudi involvement ? what Saudi involvement ? I'm sure the 30 million people that protested against the MP went to the streets and did it because the "House of Saud" told them (Sarcasm) 
You need to stop watching propaganda channels and look at facts instead, or you will be nothing more than a brainwashed tool.

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## islamrules

anybody here who agrees Sisi is a kaffir ? or did he not kill enough souls ?

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## islamrules

someone asks : who's legs r these ?
the doc replays : ask Sisi 










__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=519718514763856





weapons found in Rabia

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## Naifov

> anybody here who agrees Sisi is a kaffir ? or did he not kill enough souls ?



No neither sisi is kaffir nor the people who are supporting him. Stop this BS and stop this ideology that only disgraces the Muslims. You have no rights what so ever to call other people as kaffir. Stop this madness, any way I don't blame you, you were taught this salafi ideology.


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## islamrules




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## Serpentine

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Well,
> 
> He normalized Egypt's relations with Iran, and the Egyptians didn't like it. Some Iranians were locked up in jail, and their TV stations were closed down after the oust of Morsi, that's all.





Ammad Malik said:


> I just want to know mursi's iranian stance brother.



You are spreading wrong info for the members.
Egypt never normalized relations with Iran, heck they even barely allowed few tourists because they were scared those tourists may be able to magically turn Egyptians in to Shias somehow. 
On the other hand, Morsi had good relations with KSA and his first foreign diplomatic visit was to KSA.
He took exact opposite stance of Iran regarding Syria. He refused to open an embassy or Chargé d'affaires and in the end, he was betrayed by the same Arab 'brothers'.

I didn't like Morsi at all, but the army is just taking it too far now.

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## islamrules

Naifov said:


> No neither sisi is kaffir nor the people who are supporting him. Stop this BS and stop this ideology that only disgraces the Muslims. You have no rights what so ever to call other people as kaffir. Stop this madness, any way I don't blame you, you were taught this salafi ideology.



I got ur point ok "homo muslim liberal in ur face !!" , for all I care u didn't masacred 3000 muslims in one day, and don't talk 2 me about disgrace !!

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## Yzd Khalifa

First of all, the fact that Egypt's opened the road to have an Iranian representative which had led to bring Iranian tourists mean the normalization had found its way in. 

Did Morsi&#8217;s Flirtation with Iran Lead to his Overthrow? | FrontPage Magazine
Iran: Morsi overthrow &#39;improper&#39; | Fox News
Egyptians demand an end to ties with Iran and 'Shia Islam' | Al Bawaba
Iran supports Morsi's initiative on Syria
Bad News for Israel: Iran and Muslim Brotherhood to Strengthen Ties
Egypt and Iran to foster trade ties - Daily News Egypt

Secondly, I don't appreciate bing accused of spreading wrong info. 



Serpentine said:


> You are spreading wrong info for the members.
> Egypt never normalized relations with Iran, heck they even barely allowed few tourists because they were scared those tourists may be able to magically turn Egyptians in to Shias somehow.
> On the other hand, Morsi had good relations with KSA and his first foreign diplomatic visit was to KSA.
> He took exact opposite stance of Iran regarding Syria.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Who betrayed whom? Had KSA asked people to protests against him?



Serpentine said:


> You are spreading wrong info for the members.
> Egypt never normalized relations with Iran, heck they even barely allowed few tourists because they were scared those tourists may be able to magically turn Egyptians in to Shias somehow.
> On the other hand, Morsi had good relations with KSA and his first foreign diplomatic visit was to KSA.
> He took exact opposite stance of Iran regarding Syria. *He refused to open an embassy or Chargé d'affaires and in the end, he was betrayed by the same Arab 'brothers'.
> *
> 
> I didn't like Morsi at all, but the army is just taking it too far now.





Who's spreading wrong info to mislead members here? 

Salafists attack residence of Iranian charge d'affaires in Cairo - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online
Egyptian anti-Shia Salafists attempt to storm residence of Iranian charge d'affaires - Egypt - Ahram Online
http://www.defence.pk/forums/irania...charg-d-affaires-house-chant-anti-shiite.html

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## Shapur Zol Aktaf

Serpentine said:


> You are spreading wrong info for the members.
> Egypt never normalized relations with Iran, heck they even barely allowed few tourists because they were scared those tourists may be able to magically turn Egyptians in to Shias somehow.
> On the other hand, Morsi had good relations with KSA and his first foreign diplomatic visit was to KSA.
> He took exact opposite stance of Iran regarding Syria. He refused to open an embassy or Chargé d'affaires and in the end, he was betrayed by the same Arab 'brothers'.
> 
> I didn't like Morsi at all, but the army is just taking it too far now.


The army should attack them only if they shoot at the army or destroy property.


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## islamrules

Shapur Zol Aktaf said:


> The army should attack them if they get violent (while I know the army is also savage and puppet). They are a threat to Copts, Shia and Secular and leftist Egyptians. Egyptian army knows these baboons.. if they are freed they will burn down churches and kill anyone who is against them.

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## darkinsky

im interested in the developing story, please can you keep graphic stuff in the cup board?

thanks

its too disturbing



fallstuff said:


> If this was Morsi slaughtering 10% of what the military did, there would be no fly zone in Cairo.
> The Egyptian military is not ready or willing to share power. They believe that MBs are conservative, hence the *civilized *world will look the other way when the get butchered.



no, its because they hold 40% of the egyptian economy, giving powers to civilians means less power and less revenue


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## idune

JUBA said:


> Saudi involvement ? what Saudi involvement ? I'm sure the 30 million people that protested against the MP went to the streets and did it because the "House of Saud" told them (Sarcasm)
> You need to stop watching propaganda channels and look at facts instead, or you will be nothing more than a brainwashed tool.



There were NO thirty million people protested against MP, that was another propaganda to begin with. As for whichever number showed in the street there had already been report Saudi and western money spent on them. Besides, house of saud was first to welcome sisi's coup and showered this genocidal dictator with billions. House of saud can employ many in internet to spread propaganda on their behalf but facts on the ground and blood on their hand is hard to wash off. Good luck though.

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## iranigirl2

*Saudis credited for Egyptian coup*
Analyst says army's rebellion funded by Muslim Brotherhood opponents


WASHINGTON &#8211; The sudden Egyptian military coup to oust democratically elected but Muslim Brotherhood-supported President Mohammad Morsi is being viewed by regional analysts as a coordinated effort among Gulf Arab countries, led by Saudi Arabia, according to report from Joseph Farah&#8217;s G2 Bulletin.


&#8220;Perhaps the army and its Gulf backers thought that their &#8216;shock and awe&#8217; coup, plus the MB&#8217;s leadership decapitation, would leave the MB and their followers &#8216;psychologically seared by defeat&#8217; and appropriately docile,&#8221; according to Alastair Crooke, former MI6 analyst and Middle East specialist who oversees the Beirut-based Conflicts Forum.

However, familiar with being &#8220;victims,&#8221; the Brotherhood appears to be taking an opposite approach, developing a deep resentment and anger over the forced ouster of the president.

&#8220;Against all the odds, the MB perceive themselves as having come to power legitimately, and on the back of 80 years of patient groundwork,&#8221; Crooke said. &#8220;Yet, they still had expected to be deposed from office&#8221; after Morsi gave in to much of what the West sought, contrary to the Brotherhood&#8217;s own ideas on where to head Egypt in the future.

Crooke claims the army was behind pushing the opposition to demonstrate and demand Morsi&#8217;s ouster after only one year in office. He further claims the Army&#8217;s efforts were financed by the Gulf Arab states of the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait, both of which oppose the Brotherhood and the spread of their influence in the Gulf.

He further indicated that the role of these Gulf states was at the behest of Saudi Arabia.

&#8220;It was the army which egged on the opposition to fashion a crisis of legitimacy narrative, well-funded by UAE and Kuwait, that would allow the army to intervene,&#8221; Crooke said.

The analyst believes the Brotherhood will not appear contrite or admit to mistakes during Morsi&#8217;s period of governing. Instead, he foresees the prospect that Brotherhood unrest will spread to the Sinai and into the Suez Canal zone.

Indeed, as the Brotherhood expands its violent demonstrations throughout Egypt, clashes are erupting between pro- and anti-Morsi factions in the Sinai as police stations have come under attack. Five policemen recently were killed by Brotherhood supporters in the Sinai city of el-Arish, say Egyptian security officials.

Col. Ahmed Ali, a spokesman for the Egyptian military, said the Muslim Brotherhood is trying to &#8220;pick a fight&#8221; with the military and &#8220;drag it to a clash in order to send a message to the West that what happened in the country is a coup and that the military is cracking down on the peaceful protesters.&#8221;

Anti-Brotherhood protesters are saying much the same thing, calling their supporters to hit the streets &#8220;to defend popular legitimacy&#8221; against what they call a &#8220;malicious plot&#8221; by the Brotherhood.

With the interim government now &#8220;Islamist-free,&#8221; Crooke sees Egypt being restored to &#8220;Mubarakism without Mubarak,&#8221; referring to the previously ousted President of Egypt, Hosni Mubarak, who had the full backing of the military until demonstrations brought the country to a standstill and caused his removal.



Read more at Saudis credited for Egyptian coup

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## darkinsky

Naifov said:


> I'm a homosexual MUSLIM saudi



stay away from me


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## Shapur Zol Aktaf

idune said:


> There were NO thirty million people protested against MP, that was another propaganda to begin with. As for whichever number showed in the street there had already been report Saudi and western money spent on them. Besides, house of saud was first to welcome sisi's coup and showered this genocidal dictator with billions. House of saud can employ many in internet to spread propaganda on their behalf but facts on the ground and blood on their hand is hard to wash off. Good luck though.


Yes, saudis are 100% guilty in this massacre and MB should answer them. In this case, they could not use their anti-shia propaganda like in Syria because this time they were killing sunnis.

MB trusted salafist al-nour snakes and got bitten by them.

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## iranigirl2

Shapur Zol Aktaf said:


> Yes, saudis are 100% guilty in this massacre and MB should answer them. In this case, they could not use their anti-shia propaganda like in Syria because this time they were killing sunnis.
> 
> MB trusted salafist al-nour snakes and got bitten by them.





Not only MB trusted the snake salafi al-nour, but also they trusted Sisi, Sisi has close ties with Saudi Arabia and his wife and his family members are all Salafis.

In the end the Salafis that are extension of Saudi Arabian foreign policy backstabbed MB.

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## idune

Shapur Zol Aktaf said:


> Yes, saudis are 100% guilty in this massacre and MB should answer them. In this case, they could not use their anti-shia propaganda like in Syria because this time they were killing sunnis.
> 
> MB trusted salafist al-nour snakes and got bitten by them.



While Saudi involvement is clear, Iran should not take any line other than principal stand that no one should pursue killing for sectarian agenda or for dominance. This is time for Iran and Turkey take firm stand of leadership to unite middle east including non violent and democratic minded Saudis based on core Islamic values. If Saudis can see teaching of core Islamic value and turn around then they should have a place in leadership as well. But with house of saud, it is hard to see happening any time soon.

That is my 2 cent and wish.

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## iranigirl2

idune said:


> While Saudi involvement is clear, Iran should not take any line other than principal stand that no one should pursue killing sectarian or dominance. This is time for Iran and Turkey take firm stand to unite middle east including non violent and democratic minded Saudis based on core Islamic value.



Iran, Turkey and Qatar are against the Coup and the massacre that took place yesterday.


Saudi Arabia, UAE, and other Persian Gulf states are pro-Sisi and military rule.


They see any form of elections as a threat to their own absolute monarchy.


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## islamrules

look at the cause of death !!


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## Shapur Zol Aktaf

idune said:


> While Saudi involvement is clear, Iran should not take any line other than principal stand that no one should pursue killing for sectarian agenda or for dominance. This is time for Iran and Turkey take firm stand to unite middle east including non violent and democratic minded Saudis based on core Islamic values. If Saudis can see teaching of core Islamic value then they should have a place in leadership as well.


It's late for that. Every day Shia are massacred and even turkish minister has started to call Hezbollah party of satan.
These sectarian and violent policies of Turkey, Qatar, Saudi are destroying middle east.
In case of Egypt, Iran should stay silent and neutral. MB is known for its anti-shia policies just like the army. However I do understand their anger towards Saudi rulers because what happened was a pure massacre.


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## Naifov

idune said:


> While Saudi involvement is clear, Iran should not take any line other than principal stand that no one should pursue killing for sectarian agenda or for dominance. This is time for Iran and Turkey take firm stand of leadership to unite middle east including non violent and democratic minded Saudis based on core Islamic values. If Saudis can see teaching of core Islamic value and turn around then they should have a place in leadership as well. But with house of saud, it is hard to see happening any time soon.
> 
> That is my 2 cent and wish.



Though being against the Saudi regime in what they did in Egypt and completely agree with you that they are responsible for the bloodshed in Egypt, I must disagree with you on the part that Iran does not have any part of the havoc that is disrupting the ME. Iran's stance is not clear in Egypt but it is clear as the sun in Syria and Lebanon. Iranian mullahs are as guilty as the Saudi regime in what is happening in the ME. Claiming that the mullahs are working on a matter of principals is a misplaced lie. Everyone is working on the basis of interests and the human life has no value in their eyes. Both the mullahs and Al Saud are shame on both Shia and Sunni Islam. 

Be anti Al Saud as you wish but don't claim that Iranian mullahs are innocent from the syrian bloodshed.


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## fallstuff

darkinsky said:


> im interested in the developing story, please can you keep graphic stuff in the cup board?
> 
> thanks
> 
> its too disturbing
> 
> 
> 
> no, *its because they hold 40% of the egyptian economy*, giving powers to civilians means less power and less revenue



You just rehashed my post !!

The fact is Obama's failure to acknowledge the takeover as a coup against Morsi is bolstering the military in engaging these horrendous acts. 

A simple case of sudden non-availability of spares will go a long way in putting a leash on the military.

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## Syrian Lion

islamrules said:


> horrific scenes
> 
> 
> kuffars took off the black clothes as a sign that the islamic era is over


hahah your ignorance is a joke, they have always wore these cloth in the service, but when they are not in service they wear black...

your stupidity has no cure... you blame everything on Christians...

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## islamrules

before the coup 

"The Egyptian people needed someone to be kind to them" -- AbdelFattah Al-Sisi


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## iranigirl2

Naifov said:


> Though being against the Saudi regime in what they did in Egypt and completely agree with you that they are responsible for the bloodshed in Egypt, I must disagree with you on the part that Iran does not have any part of the havoc that is disrupting the ME. Iran's stance is not clear in Egypt but it is clear as the sun in Syria and Lebanon. Iranian mullahs are as guilty as the Saudi regime in what is happening in the ME. Claiming that the mullahs are working on a matter of principals is a misplaced lie. Everyone is working on the basis of interests and the human life has no value in their eyes. Both the mullahs and Al Saud are shame on both Shia and Sunni Islam.
> 
> Be anti Al Saud as you wish but don't claim that Iranian mullahs are innocent from the syrian bloodshed.




Oh please save it for someone without a brain to fall for your propaganda.


Al Sauds and the Gulf states monarchies have killed and displaced millions of people in the past 30 years.


Who financed Saddam in Iran-Iraq war? The monarchies all benefited from the oil prices and they kept financing Saddam to attack Iran, they only stopped when Saddam attack and invaded Kuwait.

What about when Al Sauds and the Gulf monarchies started to finance and send 1000 of fighters to Afghanistan in 1980's? Currently there are 2 million Afghan refugees in Iran and about 4 million more spread across the world.


Which countries are only financing the terrorism in Syria? again the Al Sauds and the rest of the monarchies.


Don't forget you also invaded Bahrain in 2011 crushed and killed protestors.


Whose financing military coups because they don't like democracy too close to their own borders? Again , Al sauds regime and the rest of the monarchies.



What about when USA invaded Iraq? Why didn't you stop them? Why did America use their military bases in Kuwait to invade Iraq and again mess up the whole country?

At least with the Iranian leader, they have a clear agenda, they don't want Western powers dominating and invading the region.

In each country they should hold elections and each time, Islamist will come to power, because people identify with Islam.


Al Sauds regime and the monarchies HATE any elections, because it poses a threat to their own rule and corruption.


they also finance terrorist groups in Pakistan that kill minorities!

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## islamrules

the world number one hashtag right now &#8234;#&#8206;EgyptMassacre&#8236;


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## Shapur Zol Aktaf

Naifov said:


> Though being against the Saudi regime in what they did in Egypt and completely agree with you that they are responsible for the bloodshed in Egypt, I must disagree with you on the part that Iran does not have any part of the havoc that is disrupting the ME. Iran's stance is not clear in Egypt but it is clear as the sun in Syria and Lebanon. Iranian mullahs are as guilty as the Saudi regime in what is happening in the ME. Claiming that the mullahs are working on a matter of principals is a misplaced lie. Everyone is working on the basis of interests and the human life has no value in their eyes. Both the mullahs and Al Saud are shame on both Shia and Sunni Islam.
> 
> Be anti Al Saud as you wish but don't claim that Iranian mullahs are innocent from the syrian bloodshed.



Shia never do carbombings and suicide attacks in sunni markets, cafes, streets. Saudi arabia exports terrorism. 99% of attacks in Iraq are done by terrorist salafists. And yes Iran is not clear in Egypt because all the parties are anti-Iran and anti-shia.

I don't agree many policies of islamic republic, however I'm objective.

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## Doritos11

iranigirl2 said:


> Oh please save it for someone without a brain to fall for your propaganda.
> 
> 
> Al Sauds and the Gulf states monarchies have killed and displaced millions of people in the past 30 years.
> 
> 
> Who financed Saddam in Iran-Iraq war? The monarchies all benefited from the oil prices and they kept financing Saddam to attack Iran, they only stopped when Saddam attack and invaded Kuwait.
> 
> What about when Al Sauds and the Gulf monarchies started to finance and send 1000 of fighters to Afghanistan in 1980's? Currently there are 2 million Afghan refugees in Iran and about 4 million more spread across the world.
> 
> 
> Which countries are only financing the terrorism in Syria? again the Al Sauds and the rest of the monarchies.
> 
> 
> Don't forget you also invaded Bahrain in 2011 crushed and killed protestors.
> 
> 
> Whose financing military coups because they don't like democracy too close to their own borders? Again , Al sauds regime and the rest of the monarchies.
> 
> 
> 
> What about when USA invaded Iraq? Why didn't you stop them? Why did America use their military bases in Kuwait to invade Iraq and again mess up the whole country?
> 
> At least with the Iranian leader, they have a clear agenda, they don't want Western powers dominating and invading the region.
> 
> In each country they should hold elections and each time, Islamist will come to power, because people identify with Islam.
> 
> 
> Al Sauds regime and the monarchies HATE any elections, because it poses a threat to their own rule and corruption.
> 
> 
> they also finance terrorist groups in Pakistan that kill minorities!



Agree but Iran&#8217;s regime is not any better.
Iranian regime makes trouble and supports armed groups aswell. Meddling in affairs of other countries instead of focussing on their owns. Both regimes are good for nothing.


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## islamrules

*salatul ghaib on the shuhada Today *

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## islamrules




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## Shapur Zol Aktaf

islamrules said:


> *salatul ghaib on the shuhada Today *


This poor man always cries when his foreign policy fails. However when Iraqis are bombed daily, he never cries. Why?

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## Naifov

iranigirl2 said:


> Oh please save it for someone without a brain to fall for your propaganda.
> 
> 
> Al Sauds and the Gulf states monarchies have killed and displaced millions of people in the past 30 years.
> 
> 
> Who financed Saddam in Iran-Iraq war? The monarchies all benefited from the oil prices and they kept financing Saddam to attack Iran, they only stopped when Saddam attack and invaded Kuwait.
> 
> What about when Al Sauds and the Gulf monarchies started to finance and send 1000 of fighters to Afghanistan in 1980's? Currently there are 2 million Afghan refugees in Iran and about 4 million more spread across the world.
> 
> 
> Which countries are only financing the terrorism in Syria? again the Al Sauds and the rest of the monarchies.
> 
> 
> Don't forget you also invaded Bahrain in 2011 crushed and killed protestors.
> 
> 
> Whose financing military coups because they don't like democracy too close to their own borders? Again , Al sauds regime and the rest of the monarchies.
> 
> 
> 
> What about when USA invaded Iraq? Why didn't you stop them? Why did America use their military bases in Kuwait to invade Iraq and again mess up the whole country?
> 
> At least with the Iranian leader, they have a clear agenda, they don't want Western powers dominating and invading the region.
> 
> In each country they should hold elections and each time, Islamist will come to power, because people identify with Islam.
> 
> 
> Al Sauds regime and the monarchies HATE any elections, because it poses a threat to their own rule and corruption.
> 
> 
> they also finance terrorist groups in Pakistan that kill minorities!



Bring the suicide bombing card whenever you want, bit you can't deny the fact that the mullahs are supporting the butcher in syria. Claim that the Syrian Opposition are terrorists as you wish but you can't change the truth that the mullahs are responsible for 100.000 Syrian lives taken by the butcher and extreme shia ideology. I don't support radical Islam nor am I a fan of the Saudi regime, but your attempts to deny the bloodshed in Syria on the hands of your mullahs is quit ridiculous.


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## islamrules

no Friday prayer in Rabia for Today

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## Gold1010

Naifov said:


> I'm a liberal homosexual MUSLIM saudi, I think I just marked your target of a kaffir.



Respect for saying that on a forum with a bunch of religious homophobes, though I'm not sure if you were serious.


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## islamrules

th presidency is talking about MB attacks on libraries and museums and public parks !! when did this happen ?? 
stupid Sisi faking terror attacks

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## islamrules

*BREAKING: Putin puts all Russian military facilities at &#8220;Egyptian military&#8217;s disposal&#8221;*

Sources told Egypt Independent that Russian President Vladimir Putin called for an extraordinary session at the Russian Kremlin to discuss the situation in Egypt and take the necessary steps to put the Russian military facilities &#8220;at the Egyptian military&#8217;s disposal&#8221;. Putin will discuss Russian arrangements for joint-military exercises with the Egyptian army according to source. [...]
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/08/breaking-putin-puts-all-russian-military-facilities-at-egyptian-militarys-disposal-2738506.html

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## iranigirl2

Naifov said:


> Bring the suicide bombing card whenever you want, bit you can't deny the fact that the mullahs are supporting the butcher in syria. Claim that the Syrian Opposition are terrorists as you wish but you can't change the truth that the mullahs are responsible for 100.000 Syrian lives taken by the butcher and extreme shia ideology. I don't support radical Islam nor am I a fan of the Saudi regime, but your attempts to deny the bloodshed in Syria on the hands of your mullahs is quit ridiculous.




Your so called opposition groups have killed 50,000 people in Syria! Your hypocrisy is disgusting.....




BEIRUT: Assad backers reportedly make up 43 percent of dead in Syria - World Wires - MiamiHerald.com





It really doesn't matter if your a "liberal" ,"gay", "western educated", etc... All Saudis see all the other sects in the Middle east as second class citizens, Wahhabi mentality is deep in Saudis psyche. Sunni supremacy is over, welcome to the 21st century!

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## iranigirl2

islamrules said:


> *BREAKING: Putin puts all Russian military facilities at &#8220;Egyptian military&#8217;s disposal&#8221;*
> 
> Sources told Egypt Independent that Russian President Vladimir Putin called for an extraordinary session at the Russian Kremlin to discuss the situation in Egypt and take the necessary steps to put the Russian military facilities &#8220;at the Egyptian military&#8217;s disposal&#8221;. Putin will discuss Russian arrangements for joint-military exercises with the Egyptian army according to source. [...]
> BREAKING: Putin puts all Russian military facilities at ?Egyptian military?s disposal? | Alternative



Russians are only looking for their own interest.


America is only looking for it's own interest.


Don't take it too personally.


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## islamrules

*This is why sisi is burning the bodies *

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## islamrules

* Today might be the day Cairo burns ...

people are talking about military suddenly leaving their positions near banks n churches n gvt offices , they plan something big in Cairo .1500 missing at least , and 10000 arrested in Cairo's stadium. *

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## Mahmoud_EGY

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Arabic speakers
> @JUBA @Arabian Legend @BLACKEAGLE @Mosamania @Ceylal @Frogman @agentny17 @Mahmoud_EGY @tyrant
> 
> What do you guys think about this interview ?
> http://www.alarabiya.net/ar/arab-an...1604;&#1583;&#1575;&#1606;&#1607;&#1605;.html
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm well-aware of the Camp David stipulations, but we have to give them credits for what they did these days


the brotherhood in every country dont consider themselves citizens the brotherhood comes first to them and there is nothing they wont do for the brotherhood even if that means destroy their countries

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## BlueWarrior

This sht is totally f up. 

********.com - 18+ Graphic: footage of head shots and face shots by Egypt's security force


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## islamrules

Sisi's dogs r brainless self hating mad monsters 










__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=188156461358866


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## iranigirl2

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> the brotherhood in every country dont consider themselves citizens the brotherhood comes first to them and there is nothing they wont do for the brotherhood even if that means destroy their countries



They want to establish the Islamic caliphate.


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## Sedqal

iranigirl2 said:


> They want to establish the Islamic caliphate.



You should be the last one to complain considering you already have a mutated theocratic Walayat e Faqeeh govt in Iran

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## Mahmoud_EGY

iranigirl2 said:


> They want to establish the Islamic caliphate.


and this is the right way ? dont believe this propaganda what is happening in Egypt is a terrorist group want to destroy or rule i can replay to every post but let them think what they like this is our country and we can defend it 
glory to the homeland.......... glory to EGYPT


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## Mahmoud_EGY




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## Shapur Zol Aktaf

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> and this is the right way ? dont believe this propaganda what is happening in Egypt is a terrorist group want to destroy or rule i can replay to every post but let them think what they like this is our country and we can defend it
> glory to the homeland.......... glory to EGYPT



I don't like MB at all. However don't you think the army went much to far... I mean 525-2000 killed and 4000 wounded is not self defence anymore. Women being shot etc. I've seen shocking pictures of headshots, brains on the ground. This will only provoke the MB. I think Egypt needs wise men like Elbaradei.


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## islamrules

@Mahmoud_EGY
&#1576;&#1606;&#1578; &#1575;&#1604;&#1581;&#1585;&#1575;&#1605; &#1608; &#1575;&#1606;&#1575; &#1576;&#1582;&#1606;&#1602;&#1607;&#1575; &#1593;&#1590;&#1578;&#1606;&#1610; &#1601;&#1610; &#1573;&#1610;&#1583;&#1610; ... &#1578;&#1602;&#1608;&#1604;&#1588; &#1593;&#1583;&#1608;&#1578;&#1607;&#1575;


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Shapur Zol Aktaf said:


> I don't like MB at all. However don't you think the army went much to far... I mean 525-2000 killed and 4000 wounded is not self defence anymore. Women being shot etc. This will only provoke the MB. I think Egypt needs wise men like Elbaradei.


525 killed about 50 of them are policemen from live rounds if this happened in any country you would see a lot bigger numbers



islamrules said:


> @Mahmoud_EGY
> &#1576;&#1606;&#1578; &#1575;&#1604;&#1581;&#1585;&#1575;&#1605; &#1608; &#1575;&#1606;&#1575; &#1576;&#1582;&#1606;&#1602;&#1607;&#1575; &#1593;&#1590;&#1578;&#1606;&#1610; &#1601;&#1610; &#1573;&#1610;&#1583;&#1610; ... &#1578;&#1602;&#1608;&#1604;&#1588; &#1593;&#1583;&#1608;&#1578;&#1607;&#1575;


&#1605;&#1575;&#1601;&#1610;&#1588; &#1601;&#1575;&#1610;&#1583;&#1577;


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## hussain0216

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> and this is the right way ? dont believe this propaganda what is happening in Egypt is a terrorist group want to destroy or rule i can replay to every post but let them think what they like this is our country and we can defend it
> glory to the homeland.......... glory to EGYPT





They are the legitimiate and elected government of Egypt.

You idiots overthrew an elected goverment and are killings its supporters, arrested its president and are rounding up its party leaders and members for killing..


THIS IS YOUR FAULT


Egypt is going no where but down fast because you idiots cant wait for elections..

Take it from Pakistanis who had to live under a **** poor PPP President Zardari for 5 years


However useless and poor you thought Morsi was if you idiots waited for elections then there would have been a transition, if you wanted secular parties then all you had to do was VOTE for secular parties in the up coming local and then eventually national elections.


*You have almost destroyed your nation by over throwing an elected regime, supporting a rampant and biased Military who from the begining undermined democracy & now has killed thousands of egyptians


Even if someone hated the brotherhood I cant see how waiting for elections in a few years would be worse then the destruction of Egypt the turmoil the chaos, muslims hate your military and your liberals now. You have just destroyed your international reputation and burned down your tourism industry, who would invest in Egypt now

Your only hope is to beg for aid from corrupt arab regimes*


I cant see why you people are so deluded that you couldnt accept the results of the election and if you disgreed with anything the M.B did then form a effective secular opposition 


Glory to Egypt???????? Yeah well done


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## islamrules

*Glory to this man right here !*






the Muslim Triumph card inshallah 




confirmed : Cheikh Mohammed Hassan out of the hospital , will be in the streets inshallah


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## Shapur Zol Aktaf

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> 525 killed about 50 of them are policemen from live rounds if this happened in any country you would see a lot bigger numbers


I would understand if Egyptian army would have shot those who fired at police. But 525 deaths is what the pro-military government says. So real numbers may be double of that. I don't think 500-1000 victims and 4000 wounded were all armed. And the pics show headshots, brains on the ground, and shots in chest.. It's just shocking. Where are the cooler heads like Elbaradei? There is no military solution. Both sides are not giving up and warning each other, I fear for a civil war there!

How is the situation there at the moment, you think there will be a large confrontation today?

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## hussain0216

When the brotherhood was elected

liberals and seculars automatically shut shop and refused to do business with The Goverment, the Military did the same.

One of the biggest checks and balances in any society/system is an effective opposition.

The same opposition after refusing to work with the government in anyway UNLESS their demands were met (when do defeated political parties and politicians make demands) then were outraged the M.B were trying to force through laws or trying to remove biased Mubarak era officials who were trying to force the failure of the goverment at every turn


Even if they didnt like or even hated the M.B they had to respect the results of elections *there were 5 or so elections during the last few years ALL were won by the Muslim Brotherhood*

They had to form an effective opposition and rather then act like idiot children they had to bide their time for the sake of Egypt and wait for the transition if they were so confident of winning.


Would the M.B try to implement laws that the opposition dislike , OF COURSE thats what happens when parties win elections. Just oppose them without trying to break the country


The liberal slime have just broken Egypt and took it into chaos, and whats more annoying is then are blaming the M.B for opposing a military coup

The liberals and seculars have taken Egypt to the edge not the M.B


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Shapur Zol Aktaf said:


> I would understand if Egyptian army would have shot those who fired at police. But 525 deaths is what the pro-military government says. So real numbers may be double of that. I don't think 500-1000 victims and 4000 wounded were all armed. And the pics show headshots, brains on the ground, and shots in chest.. It's just shocking. Where are the cooler heads like Elbaradei? There is no military solution. Both sides are not giving up and warning each other, I fear for a civil war there!
> 
> How is the situation there at the moment, you think there will be a large confrontation today?


today maybe will see more clashes the brotherhood have been saying we will burn Egypt today right now there is nothing happening after the friday prayers there will be protests


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## Mahmoud_EGY

islamrules said:


> *Glory to this man right here !*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the Muslim Triumph card inshallah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> confirmed : Cheikh Mohammed Hassan out of the hospital , will be in the streets inshallah


army and police men killed too and i can post their pictures but i wont


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## hussain0216

The army and Police were gunning down innocent civilians by the hundreds only God knows but they may be hell bound


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## iranigirl2

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> army and police men killed too and i can post their pictures but i wont




Sisi appointed 19 generals as Provincial Governors. It looks like Sisi is Mubarak 2.0



Do you think the 2011 Revolution achieved anything in Egypt?




http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/world/middleeast/egypt.html?_r=0

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...8038_1_sissi-muslim-brotherhood-mohamed-morsi


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## Mahmoud_EGY

hussain0216 said:


> The army and Police were gunning down innocent civilians by the hundreds only God knows but they may be hell bound


and then they killed themselves


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## islamrules

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> army and police men killed too and i can post their pictures but i wont



what like that stupid driver who crushed n fell off October Bridge, the rest are dead by mistake by their own fellow men.


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## Mahmoud_EGY

iranigirl2 said:


> Sisi appointed military generals as governors. It looks like Sisi is Mubarak 2.0
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think the 2011 Revolution achieved anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/world/middleeast/egypt.html?_r=0


after a new constitution there will be elections the state of emergency and military governors are just temporary because of the situation 
about 25 jan revoultion it is too early to say i only care about results

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## Shapur Zol Aktaf




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## hussain0216

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> after a new constitution there will be elections the state of emergency and military governors are just temporary because of the situation
> about 25 jan revoultion it is too early to say i only care about results



???????? So a peacefull transition from one elected regime to another is bad for you,,

But thousands dead, egypt burning and destroyed and then elections is ok.

Your deluded, Egypt is broken


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## Mahmoud_EGY

hussain0216 said:


> ???????? So a peacefull transition from one elected regime to another is bad for you,,
> 
> But thousands dead, egypt burning and destroyed and then elections is ok.
> 
> Your deluded, Egypt is broken


i dont want anyone to die also the army and everyone called the brotherhood to accept what happen and be in the next elections they said no


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## hussain0216

Yes, you asked them to partake in elections

AFTER, they had won 5 elections in a row and you STILL overthrew them, arrested their president, rounded by their leaders and killed hundreds of their supporters.

Why the frack would they join in your elections that would just give legitimacy to a fake regime


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## Developereo

*IPS &#8211; Egyptian Media Silences Protests | Inter Press Service*

*CAIRO, Aug 16 2013 (IPS)* - As Egypt&#8217;s political crisis escalates, supporters of ousted president Mohamed Morsi accuse the local media &#8211; both state-run and private &#8211; of ignoring pro-Morsi demonstrations and covering up massive rights abuses.
&#8220;Egyptian television is desperately trying to cover up the murder of hundreds of unarmed protesters in Cairo&#8217;s Rabaa al-Adawiya Square,&#8221; leading Muslim Brotherhood member Qutb al-Arabi told IPS. &#8220;It&#8217;s even trying to portray slain demonstrators as &#8216;terrorists&#8217;.&#8221;

On Wednesday, Aug. 14, security forces in Cairo violently dispersed two six-week-old sit-ins staged by protesters demanding Morsi&#8217;s reinstatement. Using live ammunition and teargas, they eventually managed to clear both protest sites.

As of Thursday night, Aug. 15, Egypt&#8217;s health ministry put the number of those killed in Rabaa al-Adawiya Square &#8211; the larger of the two pro-Morsi sit-ins &#8211; at 288. The pro-Morsi National Alliance for the Defence of Legitimacy, however, puts the number in the thousands.

The veracity of either figure remains impossible to verify at this point.

The move ignited nationwide clashes between pro-Morsi demonstrators and security forces, the latter often in plainclothes. A number of police stations throughout the country were ransacked and torched.

The state press, meanwhile, along with most private Egyptian media outlets, praised the security operation against the &#8220;terrorists&#8221; who had &#8220;threatened national security.&#8221; Egyptian television showed weapons it claimed had been found at the two protest sites.

&#8220;Local media has consistently tried to paint peaceful demonstrators as violent terrorists without producing credible proof of its claims,&#8221; said al-Arabi. Reports of alleged weapons found at the two sit-ins, he asserted, had been fabricated by security forces in cooperation with a compliant media.

Since Morsi&#8217;s Jul. 3 ouster by the military, nationwide demonstrations demanding his reinstatement have remained largely peaceful in nature, with protesters frequently repeating the chant &#8220;Salmiya&#8221;, which means &#8220;Peaceful&#8221;.

Egyptian media has also tried play down the numbers of &#8211; or entirely ignore &#8211; the ongoing series of demonstrations by the ousted president&#8217;s supporters.

&#8220;Massive numbers of Egyptians are on the streets nationwide to demand the restoration of democratic legitimacy and to condemn Wednesday&#8217;s massacre,&#8221; al-Arabi said. &#8220;But exact numbers are impossible to gauge because pro-Morsi rallies, especially those outside Cairo, aren&#8217;t getting any media coverage.&#8221;

Hasan Ali, professor of media at Cairo University, supported al-Arabi&#8217;s view.

&#8220;Since Morsi&#8217;s ouster, the Egyptian media has scrupulously ignored pro-Morsi rallies and marches, regardless of their size, and focused exclusively on anti-Morsi activity,&#8221; he told IPS. &#8220;In this regard, it has lost any semblance of objectivity or professionalism.&#8221;

&#8220;Egyptian television is completely ignoring our demonstrations in hope of convincing the public there&#8217;s no popular opposition to the military coup,&#8221; Mahmoud Sallem, a 30-year-old engineer and pro-Morsi demonstrator told IPS from the Rabaa al-Adawiya sit-in shortly before its dispersal.

On Aug. 5, authorities banned Yemeni Nobel Peace Prize laureate Tawakul Kerman &#8211; who had planned a solidarity visit to Rabaa al-Adawayia &#8211; from entering Egypt. The following day, she declared: &#8220;Only those that support Egypt&#8217;s military coup are given a voice in the media.&#8221;

According to the Brotherhood&#8217;s al-Arabi, who is also a member of Egypt&#8217;s Supreme Council for Journalism (responsible for the administration of the state press), said the ongoing news blackout on pro-Morsi activity was part of a larger media campaign against Egypt&#8217;s Islamist camp.

&#8220;After the coup, the state press immediately stopped publishing anything by Islamist-leaning writers, while all state-run television channels &#8211; and most private ones &#8211; stopped hosting Islamist-leaning guests,&#8221; he said.

Following Morsi&#8217;s ouster last month, authorities immediately closed all Islamist television channels, accusing them of &#8220;inciting violence&#8221;. Security forces also raided Al Jazeera&#8217;s Cairo offices, similarly accusing the channel of broadcasting &#8220;incitement&#8221;.

Prominent private channels known for pursuing a vehemently anti-Islamist line, were left untouched. Based in Egypt&#8217;s Media Production City on Cairo&#8217;s outskirts, *these channels are owned largely by prominent businessmen known to have close associations with the ousted Hosni Mubarak regime.*

&#8220;These channels, especially ONtv and CBC, are owned by the same forces that led the smear campaign against President Morsi before his ouster,&#8221; said al-Arabi. &#8220;They also played a central role in mobilising the public for the anti-Morsi rallies on Jun. 30 that preceded the coup.&#8221;

Early this month, dozens of pro-Morsi demonstrators were arrested when they attempted to stage a sit-in outside the MPC to demand a &#8220;purge&#8221; of the media.

Meanwhile, the small handful of *non-Egyptian television channels covering the pro-Morsi demonstrations has been subject to frequent harassment and interference.*

On Tuesday night, Aug. 13, the Gaza-based Al-Quds television channel reported that its Cairo office had been raided and an employee detained by Egyptian security forces. Al-Quds, one of very few channels covering pro-Morsi demonstrations, is run by Palestinian resistance group Hamas, an ideological offshoot of Egypt&#8217;s Muslim Brotherhood.

Last year, Morsi &#8211; the Brotherhood&#8217;s candidate &#8211; became the country&#8217;s first-ever freely elected president. On Jul. 3 of this year, he was ousted by Egypt&#8217;s powerful military establishment after massive protests against his administration in Cairo&#8217;s Tahrir Square.

Morsi&#8217;s detractors call his ouster a &#8220;second revolution&#8221; along the lines of Egypt&#8217;s January 2011 uprising that ended the Mubarak regime. Morsi&#8217;s supporters call it a &#8220;military coup&#8221; against Egypt&#8217;s elected president; a &#8220;counter-revolution&#8221; waged by Mubarak&#8217;s &#8220;deep state.&#8221;

Aside from Al-Quds, the few other channels covering pro-Morsi rallies &#8211; including Al Jazeera, Jordan-based Al-Yarmouk and London-based Al-Hiwar &#8211; have all seen their signals scrambled in recent weeks. The Al Jazeera channels that frequently cover pro-Morsi rallies, especially the network&#8217;s 24-hour live Egypt channel, Jazeera Mubasher, all remain subject to frequent interference.

The fight for the airwaves has taken on an international dimension.

Ali pointed to an ongoing &#8220;media war&#8221; between Al Jazeera, based in Muslim Brotherhood-friendly Qatar, and the Saudi-owned Al-Arabiya, based in the staunchly anti-Brotherhood United Arab Emirates (UAE). On Wednesday, the UAE voiced its full support for the &#8220;sovereign measures&#8221; taken by Egyptian authorities against the pro-Morsi sit-ins.

Despite a government-declared state of emergency, the Brotherhood-led National Alliance for the Defence of Legitimacy has called for more demonstrations on Friday, Aug. 16.

Along with Morsi&#8217;s reinstatement, demonstrators demand the restoration of Egypt&#8217;s suspended constitution and dissolved Shura Council (upper house of parliament) and the prosecution of those responsible for killing peaceful protesters.

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## BlueWarrior

The Egypt's government openly defended the massacre, how f sick this?
********.com - Man shot by sniper while carrying away a wounded man

********.com - 18+ Graphic: footage of head shots and face shots by Egypt's security force
********.com - Egypt - the young girl was killed 15.08.13
********.com - This is not Syria, this is Egypt
********.com - Rabaa al-Adaweya Mosque burned down
BBC News - Egypt officials defend crackdown on pro-Morsi camps

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## Broccoli

List of churches burned on Aug 14th by MB supporters. 


> 1  The Church of the Virgin Mary and Anba Abram of the Copts Orthodox village Dljh, the center of Deir Mawas, Minya Governorate burning church and demolished.
> 2  The Church of St. Mina Coptic Orthodox neighborhood of Abu Hilal Kebly Minya Governorate burning church
> 3  St. Georges Church Copts &#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1585;&#1579;&#1608;&#1586;&#1603;&#1587; the land of the archbishopric, Sohag Governorate burning church
> 4  Center Baptist Church Bani Mazar, Minya Governorate burning church
> 5  Church of Our Lady of Copts &#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1585;&#1579;&#1608;&#1586;&#1603;&#1587; the village Nazlah, Yusuf Center, Fayoum governorate burning the church
> 6  Monastery of the Sisters of the Good Shepherd + school Suez burning
> 7  Church Street parents Alfrencescan the Suez burning 23
> 8  The Bible Society of Friends Fayoum burning
> 9  The Church of Saint Maximus 45th Street Alexandria harassment
> 10  Church of Prince Taodharos Echatbi Fayoum burning
> 11  Church of Our Lady of Copts &#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1585;&#1579;&#1608;&#1586;&#1603;&#1587; the street butchers Abu Hilal District Minia Governorate burning
> 12  Church Marmriqs the Catholic Copts Abu Hilal District, Minya Governorate burning
> 13  Church of the Jesuit Fathers Abu Hilal District, Minya Governorate burning
> 14  Church of the Virgin and Abram news Sohag burning
> 15  Church Marmriqs the building services electricity Street, Sohag burning
> 16  a Father Onjelios home king pastor of the Church of the Virgin and Anba Abram Bdljh of Deir Mawas Dljh the center of the province of Minya house was completely burned
> 17  the burning of the Greek Church in Suez

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## bad boy 8

mark my words buddies..the dog sissi will be shot by his own army and his body will be paraded all around cairo

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## fallstuff

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> and this is the right way ? dont believe this propaganda what is happening in Egypt is a terrorist group want to destroy or rule i can replay to every post but let them think what they like this is our country and we can defend it
> glory to the homeland.......... glory to EGYPT



You are one sick psychopath, I have no idea how anyone can defend wholesale butchering.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> the brotherhood in every country dont consider themselves citizens the brotherhood comes first to them and there is nothing they wont do for the brotherhood even if that means destroy their countries



Why do you think that they are so imperialist?



Broccoli said:


> List of churches burned on Aug 14th by MB supporters.



I believe only 3 were fully destroyed.


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Why do you think that they are so imperialist?
> 
> 
> 
> .


they are from birth were raised like this to them the brotherhood is their homeland 
the morshed words are law not to be questioned 
they marry from the brotherhood 
they think they are doing allah will on earth anyone who think otherwise is kaffer 
they can justify anything they do to accomplish their goals

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## Jihad_

Ammad Malik said:


> mark my words buddies..the dog sissi will be shot by his own army and his body will be paraded all around cairo



Down with Pharao Sisi.


















Cairo massacre: After today, what Muslim will ever trust the ballot box again? 





> The Egyptian crucible has broken. The unity of Egypt  that all-embracing, patriotic, essential glue that has bound the nation together since the overthrow of the monarchy in 1952 and the rule of Nasser  has melted amid the massacres, gun battles and fury of yesterdays suppression of the Muslim Brotherhood. A hundred dead  200, 300 martyrs  makes no difference to the outcome: for millions of Egyptians, the path of democracy has been torn up amid live fire and brutality. What Muslim seeking a state based on his or her religion will ever trust the ballot box again?
> 
> This is the real story of todays bloodbath. Who can be surprised that some Muslim Brotherhood supporters were wielding Kalashnikovs on the streets of Cairo? Or that supporters of the army and its interim government  in middle-class areas of the capital, no less  have seized their weapons or produced their own and started shooting back. This is not Brotherhood vs army, though that is how our Western statesmen will mendaciously try to portray this tragedy. Todays violence has created a cruel division within Egyptian society that will take years to heal; between leftists and secularists and Christian Copts and Sunni Muslim villagers, between people and police, between Brotherhood and army. That is why Mohamed el-Baradei resigned tonight. The burning of churches was an inevitable corollary of this terrible business.
> 
> In Algeria in 1992, in Cairo in 2013  and who knows what happens in Tunisia in the coming weeks and months?  Muslims who won power, fairly and democratically through the common vote, have been hurled from power. And who can forget our vicious siege of Gaza when Palestinians voted  again democratically  for Hamas? No matter how many mistakes the Brotherhood made in Egypt  no matter how promiscuous or fatuous their rule  the democratically elected president Mohamed Morsi was overthrown by the army. It was a coup, and John McCain was right to use that word.
> 
> The Brotherhood, of course, should long ago have curbed its amour propre and tried to keep within the shell of the pseudo-democracy that the army permitted in Egypt  not because it was fair or acceptable or just, but because the alternative was bound to be a return to clandestinity, to midnight arrests and torture and martyrdom. This has been the historical role of the Brotherhood  with periods of shameful collaboration with British occupiers and Egyptian military dictators  and a return to the darkness suggests only two outcomes: that the Brotherhood will be extinguished in violence, or will succeed at some far distant date  heaven spare Egypt such a fate  in creating an Islamist autocracy.
> 
> The pundits went about their poisonous work today before the first corpse was in its grave. Can Egypt avoid a civil war? Will the terrorist Brotherhood be wiped out by the loyal army? What about those who demonstrated before Morsis overthrow? Tony Blair was only one of those who talked of impending chaos in bestowing their support on General Abdul-Fattah al-Sisi. Every violent incident in Sinai, every gun in the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood will now be used to persuade the world that the organisation  far from being a poorly armed but well-organised Islamist movement  was the right arm of al-Qaida.
> 
> History may take a different view. It will certainly be hard to explain how many thousands  yes, perhaps millions  of educated, liberal Egyptians continued to give their wholehearted support to the general who spent much time after the overthrow of Mubarak justifying the armys virginity tests of female protesters in Tahrir Square. Al-Sisi will come under much scrutiny in the coming days; he was always reputedly sympathetic to the Brotherhood, although this idea may have been provoked by his wifes wearing of the niqab. And many of the middle-class intellectuals who have thrown their support behind the army will have to squeeze their consciences into a bottle to accommodate future events.
> 
> Could Nobel Prize-holder and nuclear expert Mohamed el-Baradei, the most famous personality  in Western eyes, but not in Egyptian - in the interim government, whose social outlook and integrity looked frighteningly at odds with his governments actions today, have stayed in power? Of course not. He had to go, for he never intended such an outcome to his political power gamble when he agreed to prop up the armys choice of ministers after last months coup. But the coterie of writers and artists who insisted on regarding the coup as just another stage in the revolution of 2011 will - after the blood and el-Baradeis resignation  have to use some pretty anguished linguistics to escape moral blame for these events.
> 
> Stand by, of course, for the usual jargon questions. Does this mean the end of political Islam? For the moment, certainly; the Brotherhood is in no mood to try any more experiments in democracy  a refusal which is the immediate danger in Egypt. For without freedom, there is violence. Will Egypt turn into another Syria? Unlikely. Egypt is neither a sectarian state  it never has been, even with 10 per cent of its people Christian  nor an inherently violent one. It never experienced the savagery of Algerian uprisings against the French, or Syrian, Lebanese and Palestinian insurgencies against both the British and the French. But ghosts aplenty will hang their heads in shame today; that great revolutionary lawyer of the 1919 rising, for example, Saad Zaghloul. And General Muhammad Neguib whose 1952 revolutionary tracts read so much like the demands of the people of Tahrir in 2011.
> 
> But yes, something died in Egypt today. Not the revolution, for across the Arab world the integrity of ownership  of people demanding that they, not their leaders, own their own country  remains, however bloodstained. Innocence died, of course, as it does after every revolution. No, what expired today was the idea that Egypt was the everlasting mother of the Arab nation, the nationalist ideal, the purity of history in which Egypt regarded all her people as her children. For the Brotherhood victims today  along with the police and pro-government supporters  were also children of Egypt. And no one said so. They had become the terrorists, the enemy of the people. That is Egypts new heritage.

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## Jihad_

Ammad Malik said:


> mark my words buddies..the dog sissi will be shot by his own army and his body will be paraded all around cairo



Chant in Cairo: the people want to execute Sissi

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## Jihad_

People are coming out in masses on the streets to protest against the bloodthirsty militairy dictatorship. Without Morsi or MB pamflets.

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## revojam

BlueWarrior said:


> ********.com - Egypt - the young girl was killed 15.08.13



I hope they don't rape her corpse and give her proper burial after all according to Muslim Brothood mullahs its allright to get into relationship with fresly died girls up to 8 hours.


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## islamrules

Broccoli said:


> List of churches burned on Aug 14th by MB supporters.



in One day it never happened like this, all the attacks were at the same time and the police happened to leave their positions just before the attacks .... they were burned by the same people wo burned the mosques : sisi's secret services

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## islamrules

soldiers of Taghout helping out thugs burning molotov bottles 





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=188236321350880





look at these antichrist desciples !!

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## islamrules

Breaking : 40 killed Today 16-8-2013 in Ramsis square 









*Zakazik
*





Alexandria

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## flamer84

islamrules said:


> horrific scenes
> 
> 
> 
> kuffars took off the black clothes as a sign that the islamic era is over




Wow.....horrific scenes for the eyes of a bigot! Christians practicing their religion in normal regalia in a muslim country! Which,btw,the copts were doing officially in Egypt for some 300+ years before Islam came in.Horrific!! ....Meanwhile this biggot has the audacity to spill his trash while living in a "kuffar" country!! ...The nerve on some idiots...

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## islamrules

those r the MB and that is how they were n they will continue being like that, the only terrorists r Sisi n his gang

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## hussain0216

Ammad Malik said:


> mark my words buddies..the dog sissi will be shot by his own army and his body will be paraded all around cairo



Inshallah!!!!!

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## islamrules

no comment 











Tanta : 5 killed 16-8 
Domiat: 8 killed 






Asiot





Matrouh

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## hussain0216

flamer84 said:


> Wow.....horrific scenes for the eyes of a bigot! Christians practicing their religion in normal regalia in a muslim country! Which,btw,the copts were doing officially in Egypt for some 300+ years before Islam came in.Horrific!! ....Meanwhile this biggot has the audacity to spill his trash while living in a "kuffar" country!! ...The nerve on some idiots...



The copts are central to this slaughter, they are some of the main supporters of the coup and some of the most involved in the slaughter of the people of egypt

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## Jihad_

Nasr city

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## doublemaster

Jihad_ said:


> Nasr city



Is this today? I dont think so...


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## ELTurco



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## Juice

iranigirl2 said:


> That just shows your total ignorance about the world.
> 
> 
> Do you know how many Jews, Iranian saved from the Nazis??
> 
> 
> and Persian Jews have lived in Iran for over 2,000 years, Muslims never wiped them out.
> 
> 
> Yet, it was always the Europeans that kept killing Jews , first in Spain and then in Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ibtimes.com/abdol-hossein-sardari-iranian-diplomat-who-saved-thousands-jews-nazis-1041064


 Yeah, and Italians (Romans) kept slaves.....I'm talking here and now (yeah, that tard you tried to pass off as a president didn't have holocaust denial parties....lucky you have no fags in Iran, huh?) Here's a fun game....go back through this thread and see how many posters blame Joooos....and how many are silent on church burnings by the poor, unarmed islamo-fascist. Then go to other threads and see how many times Iranian posters have flip-flopped on Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. (as a matter of fact....the very next post brings up Isreal)


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## BlueWarrior

Egypt military force using phosphorus shell, they are using it like Israel do it to Gaza. Nothing but a barbaric scums.
&#x202b;



doublemaster said:


> Is this today? I dont think so...


Yes, it is. A lot of social networking sites had been circuling this live. They never give up.

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## hussain0216

Juice said:


> Yeah, and Italians (Romans) kept slaves.....I'm talking here and now (yeah, that tard you tried to pass off as a president didn't have holocaust denial parties....lucky you have no fags in Iran, huh?)



Who the hell cares about jews,

The actions of jews in israel if anything have proven that all the centuries of myths about them are true

They have stolen the land from the palestinians and you have white russians and europeean jews pretending to be more middle eastern then the middle easterners...


Anti-semetic??????? why would any muslim or middle easterner be pro semtic


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## BlueWarrior

ELTurco said:


>


Very kind, do you support him with cutting relationship with Egypt and who is that in your avator?


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## ELTurco



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## islamrules

*Sisi's thugs n police united to kill muslims *

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## Juice

hussain0216 said:


> Who the hell cares about jews,
> 
> The actions of jews in israel if anything have proven that all the centuries of myths about them are true
> 
> They have stolen the land from the palestinians and you have white russians and europeean jews pretending to be more middle eastern then the middle easterners...
> 
> 
> Anti-semetic??????? why would any muslim or middle easterner be pro semtic


 Not saying they would be.....but trying to equate people who crush your islamo-fascist with Hitler loses a little impact....


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## Jihad_

doublemaster said:


> Is this today? I dont think so...



Yes, in Nasr city



Dictator TV shows this in Alexandrie, while the pic next to it, shows the real crowd.

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## hussain0216

Sky News Newsdesk &#10004; @SkyNewsBreak 

Reuters: hospital official says five people killed and 70 more injured in Egyptian town of Fayoum
3:34 PM - 16 Aug 2013


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## islamrules

Netherlands stops aid program and calls ambassador in Egypt

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## flamer84

hussain0216 said:


> The copts are central to this slaughter, they are some of the main supporters of the coup and some of the most involved in the slaughter of the people of egypt



I have no pitty on church torchers and neither does God.You reap what you sow.
How about we start burning mosques in Europe,would you like that?


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## hussain0216

Juice said:


> Not saying they would be.....but trying to equate people who crush your islamo-fascist with Hitler loses a little impact....



overthrowing an elected goverment, who won 5 elections in a row. Imprisoning the president of a country on trumped up fake charges, rounding up and improsoning party leaders and members.

And slaughtering thousands of egyptians most of whom were protesting peacefully and legitimatly against a military take over



Yep comparing that Sisi to jews and Hitler is Apt



flamer84 said:


> I have no pitty on church torchers and neither does God.You reap what you sow.
> How about we start burning mosques in Europe,would you like that?



You already went through a few centuries of colonial brutality followed by support for numerous dictators who oppressed and killed muslims.


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## islamrules

port said : 2 shuhada while marching by Shurtat al arab police dep, they were shoot by the police

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## hussain0216

1.17pm BST

Pro-Morsi protests around the world

Supporters of Egypt's deposed Islamist President Mohamed Morsi shout slogans during a rally in protest of the recent violence in Egypt. Photograph: Khaled Abdullah/Reuters
The picture above is from a rally in Yemen today. The ones below are from Indonesia and Malaysia. Note that the banners are in English.
Indonesians take part in a rally to protest the deadly violence in Egypt at United Nation representative office in Jakarta, Indonesia, Aug. 16, 2013. Photograph: Agung Kuncahya B./Xinhua Press/CorbisSupporters of Egypt's deposed Islamist President Mohamed Mursi and the Muslim Brotherhood display placards during a demonstration in protest of the recent violence in Egypt, in Shah Alam outside Kuala Lumpur August 16, 2013. Photograph: Bazuku Muhammad/Reuters
Updated at 1.31pm BST

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## Juice

ELTurco said:


>



Of course Islamist support Islamist.



hussain0216 said:


> overthrowing an elected goverment, who won 5 elections in a row. Imprisoning the president of a country on trumped up fake charges, rounding up and improsoning party leaders and members.
> 
> And slaughtering thousands of egyptians most of whom were protesting peacefully and legitimatly against a military take over
> 
> 
> 
> Yep comparing that Sisi to jews and Hitler is Apt
> 
> 
> 
> You already went through a few centuries of colonial brutality followed by support for numerous dictators who oppressed and killed muslims.


 Actually comparing Morsi to Hitler is more apt (both elected....both tried to cr@p on minorities and seize dictator powers while packing the government with thugs)


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## flamer84

hussain0216 said:


> You already went through a few centuries of colonial brutality followed by support for numerous dictators who oppressed and killed muslims.



Spare me the history lesson,muslims conquered,raped to,in fact my own country was opressed by a muslim power for over 400 years.That is the past ,we are talking about now...how would you like it if the brits torched mosques in retaliation?.....now another fact for you ,the MB members gunned down are beeing punished by Divine intervention for desecrating Holy places.

Burn a church--swift ticket to hell ! bye bye.


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## hussain0216

declassified

16 August 2013 3:02pm

Recommend
6


Germany suspends all economic aid to Egypt

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## Juice

hussain0216 said:


> overthrowing an elected goverment, who won 5 elections in a row. Imprisoning the president of a country on trumped up fake charges, rounding up and improsoning party leaders and members.
> 
> And slaughtering thousands of egyptians most of whom were protesting peacefully and legitimatly against a military take over
> 
> 
> 
> Yep comparing that Sisi to jews and Hitler is Apt
> 
> 
> 
> You already went through a few centuries of colonial brutality followed by support for numerous dictators who oppressed and killed muslims.


 Wow, the Copts oppressed Muslims? How Many Muslims were in Egypt when the Copts rolled in?


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## islamrules

the new Rabia , Ramsis square 






police in civil clothes

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## Juice

flamer84 said:


> Spare me the history lesson,muslims conquered,raped to,in fact my own country was opressed by a muslim power for over 400 years.That is the past ,we are talking about now...how would you like it if the brits torched mosques in retaliation?.....now another fact for you ,the MB members gunned down are beeing punished by Divine intervention for desecrating Holy places.
> 
> Burn a church--swift ticket to hell ! bye bye.


 The thanks tab didn't show....but awesome points.


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## ssethii

flamer84 said:


> Spare me the history lesson,muslims conquered,raped to,in fact my own country was opressed by a muslim power for over 400 years.That is the past ,we are talking about now...how would you like it if the brits torched mosques in retaliation?.....now another fact for you ,the MB members gunned down are beeing punished by *Divine intervention* for desecrating Holy places.
> 
> Burn a church--swift ticket to hell ! bye bye.

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## hussain0216

Juice said:


> Of course Islamist support Islamist.
> 
> Actually comparing Morsi to Hitler is more apt (both elected....both tried to cr@p on minorities and seize dictator powers while packing the government with thugs)




What did the M.B do they barely had a few months of rule and were opposed at every turn by a brutal corrupt and self serving miliatary and state apparatus.

The biggest check and balance in any society is an EFFECTIVE opposition, this opposition instead of uniting and planning for the next election aided a brutal military in overthrowing a legitimate and elected regime..


The Taliban, the TTP, Al Qaeda now these are hard core. Bombs, suicde attacks, car bombs, special teams they would have car bombed Tahire square a thousand times by now

The Muslim brotherhood have done NOTHING


If democracy and elections are worthless then what is the alternative


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## Juice

hussain0216 said:


> What did the M.B do they barely had a few months of rule and were opposed at every turn by a brutal corrupt and self serving miliatary and state apparatus.
> 
> The biggest check and balance in any society is an EFFECTIVE opposition, this opposition instead of uniting and planning for the next election aided a brutal military in overthrowing a legitimate and elected regime..
> 
> 
> The Taliban, the TTP, Al Qaeda now these are hard core. Bombs, suicde attacks, car bombs, special teams they would have car bombed Tahire square a thousand times by now
> 
> The Muslim brotherhood have done NOTHING
> 
> 
> If democracy and elections are worthless then what is the alternative


 One example, if with in the first couple of months you try to dissolve the judiciary, and pass a decree stating you have NO checks on your power....you may be a dictator.....(even Hitler waited longer to pass the enabling act) The violence now is bad....but if the MB hadn't gone hog-wild and been more insidious....like the Islamist in Turkey....they would have had their sharia hell-hole in no time.


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## hussain0216

flamer84 said:


> Spare me the history lesson,muslims conquered,raped to,in fact my own country was opressed by a muslim power for over 400 years.That is the past ,we are talking about now...how would you like it if the brits torched mosques in retaliation?.....now another fact for you ,the MB members gunned down are beeing punished by Divine intervention for desecrating Holy places.
> 
> Burn a church--swift ticket to hell ! bye bye.



Britain partook in a false war of aggression against Iraq, thousands of muslims were killed and many mosques were destroyed,

Muslims and mosques are attacked in Burma, and India, in egypt mosqueshave been destroyed just yesterday, no one cares about them why should anyone care about the churches.


The vast majority of the people being attacked or killed are just innocent people protesting against a military coup and over throw of an elected regime by a brutal military, how are they guilty of anything.



Here is a fact for you, innocent muslims are butchered and killed across the world by liberal forces, democracy and elections are thrown out the window when muslims win, and human rights and laws are trampled when muslims are arrested and tortured.

What is the point in partaking in any election, obeying any law or being mercifull to any one let alone any minority

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## Jihad_

Saudi Arabia&#8217;s King Abdullah says the kingdom supports Egypt in the fight against terrorism





In reality he supports the killing of muslims...

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## hussain0216

Juice said:


> One example, if with in the first couple of months you try to dissolve the judiciary, and pass a decree stating you have NO checks on your power....you may be a dictator.....(even Hitler waited longer to pass the enabling act)



The judiciary was a mubarak era institution who along with the military and liberals refused to allow the muslim brotherhood to govern or achive anything

Both the judicary and military need COMPLETE overhaul in order for democracy to flourish

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## islamrules

al jazira mubasher now : 3 military helis shelling protesters in Ramsis square

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## Juice

hussain0216 said:


> Britain partook in a false war of aggression against Iraq, thousands of muslims were killed and many mosques were destroyed,
> 
> Muslims and mosques are attacked in Burma, and India, in egypt mosqueshave been destroyed just yesterday, no one cares about them why should anyone care about the churches.
> 
> 
> The vast majority of the people being attacked or killed are just innocent people protesting against a military coup and over throw of an elected regime by a brutal military, how are they guilty of anything.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a fact for you, innocent muslims are butchered and killed across the world by liberal forces, democracy and elections are thrown out the window when muslims win, and human rights and laws are trampled when muslims are arrested and tortured.
> 
> What is the point in partaking in any election, obeying any law or being mercifull to any one let alone any minority


 It was no false war....it was very real. And as you guys support burning churches...we obviously didn't kill enough....


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## islamrules

Jihad_ said:


> Saudi Arabia&#8217;s King Abdullah says the kingdom supports Egypt in the fight against terrorism



&#1604;&#1575; &#1581;&#1608;&#1604; &#1608; &#1604;&#1575; &#1602;&#1608;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1575; &#1576;&#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1581;&#1587;&#1576;&#1606;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1608; &#1606;&#1593;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1608;&#1603;&#1610;&#1604;

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## Juice

hussain0216 said:


> The judiciary was a mubarak era institution who along with the military and liberals refused to allow the muslim brotherhood to govern or achive anything
> 
> Both the judicary and military need COMPLETE overhaul in order for democracy to flourish


 All Hitler's enemies supported Communist and Weimar reactionaries....so off to the gas chambers....


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## flamer84

ssethii said:


>



I see,your entire faith thinks that if you draw a picture of the Prophet you'll burn in hell and you will suffer but somehow in your mind you find it amusing if someone thinks that God will punish someone who torches Holy churches to the ground in an act of mindless barbarity.Well,laugh away thinking in your infailible religious superiority.



hussain0216 said:


> Britain partook in a false war of aggression against Iraq, thousands of muslims were killed and many mosques were destroyed,
> 
> Muslims and mosques are attacked in Burma, and India, in egypt mosqueshave been destroyed just yesterday, no one cares about them why should anyone care about the churches.



I don't give 2 cents on what has Britain done,Britain is not the copts who are scratching a precarious living in Egypt without having to suffer their churches burned down by savagers.
And,btw,i do apply the same rule for mosques to.in my book mosques are places of worship,places of God,whoever defiles is bound for hell,just like in the cases of churches.No difference,a house of God is a house of God it should not be burned or desecrated.

Those who burn mosques in Burma,India or wherever will be punished,if not in this life then in the next one.


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## hussain0216

Juice said:


> It was no false war....it was very real. And as you guys support burning churches...we obviously didn't kill enough....



No it was a false and decitefull war based on lies..... this is why people are looking at these things and thinking why shouyld muslims be mercifull to minorities when no one else is

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## BlueWarrior

Cairo: Protests by supporters of ousted Islamist President Mohammad Mursi turned violent across Egypt on Friday, with witnesses reporting four dead in central Cairo and at least 12 killed in northern cities as the Muslim Brotherhood staged a &#8220;Day of Rage&#8221;.
*The army deployed dozens of armoured vehicles on major roads around the capital after Mursi&#8217;s Brotherhood movement called the demonstrations, and the Interior Ministry said police would use live ammunition against anyone threatening public buildings.*
The violence followed Wednesday&#8217;s assault by security forces on two Brotherhood sit-ins in Cairo that left hundreds dead, as security forces tried to end weeks of turbulence following the army&#8217;s toppling of Mursi on July 3.
I*n Cairo gunshots echoed around the huge Ramses Square, focal point of Brotherhood protests in the capital, and police fired salvoes of tear gas. Four people were killed and many more wounded by gunshot and birdshot in the square, a witness said.*
Nile TV showed footage of one gunman among Islamist protesters firing from a city centre bridge. Injured men, one with a bloody wound in the middle of his chest, were rushed away on the back of a pick-up truck.
Emergency services also said eight protesters were killed in clashes in the Mediterranean town of Damietta, and four people died in the northeastern city of Esmailia. Violence was also reported in Egypt&#8217;s second city Alexandria and in the Nile Delta city of Tanta.
A police conscript was killed in a drive-by shooting in the north of the capital, state news agency Mena reported.
*Deeply polarised after months of political turmoil, Egypt stands close to the abyss of chaos with Islamist supporters refusing to accept the toppling of Mursi, which followed mammoth rallies castigating his trouble-plagued, year-long rule.
They have demanded the resignation of army commander General Abdul Fattah Al Sisi and the reinstatement of Egypt&#8217;s first freely elected president, who is in detention and has not been seen in public since his downfall.*
&#8220;*Sooner or later I will die. Better to die for my rights than in my bed. Guns don&#8217;t scare us anymore,&#8221; said Sara Ahmad, 28, a business manager, joining a march of thousands of demonstrators heading downtown from northeast Cairo.*
&#8220;It&#8217;s not about the Brotherhood, it&#8217;s about human rights,&#8221; said Ahmed, one of the few women not wearing a headscarf, a sign of piety for Muslim women.
When a military helicopter flew low over Ramses Square, protesters held up shoes chanting *&#8220;We will bring [Al] Sisi to the ground&#8221; and &#8220;Leave, leave, you traitor.&#8221; As the sound of teargas canisters being fired began, protesters - including young and old, men and women - donned surgical masks, gas masks and wrapped bandannas around their faces. Some rubbed Pepsi on their faces to counter the gas.*
&#8220;Allahu akbar! [God is Greatest]&#8221; the crowd chanted.
WASHINGTON DISPLEASURE
Signalling his displeasure at the worst bloodshed in Egypt for generations, US President Barack Obama said on Thursday normal cooperation with Cairo could not continue and announced the cancellation of military exercises with Egypt next month.
&#8220;We deplore violence against civilians. We support universal rights essential to human dignity, including the right to peaceful protest,&#8221; he said, but stopped short of cutting off the $1.55 billion a year of mostly military US aid to Egypt.
The Brotherhood accuses the military of staging a coup when it ousted Mursi. Liberal and youth activists who backed the military saw the move as a positive response to public demands.
*But some fear Egypt is turning back into the kind of police state that kept the disgraced Hosni Mubarak in power for 30 years before his removal in 2011, as security institutions recover their confidence and reassert control.*
Friday prayers have proved a fertile time for protests during more than two years of unrest across the Arab world.
*In calling for a &#8220;Day of Rage,&#8221; the Brotherhood used the same name as that given to the most violent day of the uprising against Mubarak. That day, January 28, 2011, marked the protesters&#8217; victory over the police, who were forced to retreat.*
Ironically, the epicentre of the anti-Mubarak protests, Tahrir Square, was deserted on Friday, sealed off by the army.
Underscoring the deep divisions in the most populous Arab/sstate, local residents helped the army block access to Cairo&#8217;s Rabaa Al Adawiya mosque, the site of the main Brotherhood sit-in that was swept away during Wednesday&#8217;s police assault.
&#8220;We are here to prevent those ****** bastards from coming back,&#8221; said Mohammad Ali, a 22-year-old business student.
The Egyptian presidency issued a statement criticising Obama, saying his comments were not based on &#8220;facts&#8221; and would strengthen violent groups that were committing &#8220;terrorist acts&#8221;.
Pro-army groups posted videos on the Internet of policemen they said had been tortured and killed by Islamist militants.
Washington&#8217;s influence over Cairo has been called into question since Mursi&#8217;s overthrow. Since then Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the UAE have pledged $12 billion in assistance, making them more prominent partners.
Obama&#8217;s refusal so far to cut off US aid to Egypt suggests he does not wish to alienate the generals despite the scale of the bloodshed in the army&#8217;s suppression of Mursi supporters.
Egypt will need all the financial support it can get in the coming months as it grapples with growing economic woes, especially in the important tourism sector that accounts for more than 10 per cent of gross domestic product.
The United States urged its citizens to leave Egypt on Thursday and two of Europe&#8217;s biggest tour operators, Germany&#8217;s TUI and Thomas Cook Germany, said they were cancelling all trips to the country until September 15.
On Thursday, the UN Security Council urged all parties in Egypt to exercise restraint, but did not assign blame.
&#8220;The view of council members is that it is important to end violence in Egypt,&#8221; Argentine UN Ambassador Maria Cristina Perceval said after the 15-member council met on the situation.

Wow they don't fear death, so definitely it will be the next Syria.

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## Juice

hussain0216 said:


> No it was a false and decitefull war based on lies..... this is why people are looking at these things and thinking why shouyld muslims be mercifull to minorities when no one else is



Even when it happened....I knew it wasn't about WMD's (perhaps I'm smarter than most....I knew Saddam wouldn't use them on us, though I expected them to be found easier....everyone knows he had them...ask your Iranian buddies). But after 9/11 it was clear the middle east couldn't be allowed to continue "as is". Iraq had a history with us, and bordered virtually every major player in the region....had to go. The Islamist wanted to be noticed....they were....stop whining about it...you got what you wanted. Everyone in the region wanted to pee in the tall grass with the big dogs, well welcome to the major leagues...this is how it's done.


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## ssethii

flamer84 said:


> I see,your entire faith thinks that if you draw a picture of the Prophet you'll burn in hell and you will suffer but somehow in your mind you find it amusing if someone thinks that God will punish someone who torches Holy churches to the ground in an act of mindless barbarity.Well,laugh away thinking in your infailible religious superiority.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give 2 cents on what has Britain done,Britain is not the copts who are scratching a precarious living in Egypt without having to suffer their churches burned down by savagers.
> And,btw,i do apply the same rule for mosques to.in my book mosques are places of worship,places of God,whoever defiles is bound for hell,just like in the cases of churches.No difference,a house of God is a house of God it should not be burned or desecrated.



you are right burning of church is as condemn-able act as of Mosque. But that does not enable you to mass murder peaceful protesters, if Christianity believes in peace and tolerance?

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## islamrules

Confirmed 

Saudi Arabia : " Saudi Arabia stands Today with the people of Egypt against terrorism, and let those who interfered know that they r supporting the terrorism they claim to be fighting "


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## flamer84

ssethii said:


> you are right burning of church is as condemn-able act as of Mosque. But that does not enable you to mass murder peaceful protesters, if Christianity believes in peace and tolerance?



Yes it does.You could see my post above ,burn/desecrate a mosque or church is the same crime.I'm not agreeing with killing of civilians i've just said that when you burn a church you could be in for Divine retribution.Sins are punishable you know.


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## islamrules

Alexandria : heavy shelling from military vehicules and many casualties in a march in masjid Ali Ibn Abi Taleb !!!

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## ssethii

hussain0216 said:


> No it was a false and decitefull war based on lies..... this is why people are looking at these things and thinking why shouyld muslims be mercifull to minorities when no one else is




you are not allowed to post on behalf of all Muslims.
'peaceful co-existence' is the key word here.
you are suggesting brits should burn houses of Muslim community if their govt charge on brit protesters.



flamer84 said:


> Yes it does.You could see my post above ,burn/desecrate a mosque or church is the same crime.I'm not agreeing with killing of civilians i've just said that when you burn a church you could be in for Divine retribution.Sins are *punishable* you know.



don't let your personal grudges flaw your logic.

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## islamrules

31 killed so far Today in Syria 
50 killed so far Today in Egypt

snipers landing

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## flamer84

ssethii said:


> don't let your personal grudges flaw your logic.



If i would have a personal grudge against muslims i would not put a equal sign between a church and a mosque.I would not personally dare to throw a stone at a mosque for fear of committing a sin.Those who did that to churches could be(possibility b'cause i can't interpret His will for sure) punished for this terrible act.This is what i believe.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

islamrules said:


> Confirmed
> 
> Saudi Arabia : " Saudi Arabia stands Today with the people of Egypt against terrorism, and let those who interfered know that they r supporting the terrorism they claim to be fighting "


saudi and other gulf countries stand with Egypt in our time of need will always be remembered


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## ssethii

flamer84 said:


> If i would have a personal grudge against muslims i would not put a equal sign between a church and a mosque.I would not personally dare to throw a stone at a mosque for fear of committing a sin.Those who did that to churches could be(possibility b'cause i can't interpret His will for sure) punished for this terrible act.This is what i believe.



church burned(building) = People killed.
that is what you are equating a holy place no matter what worth it has, A human life is still more valuable.

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## BlueWarrior

islamrules said:


> Alexandria : heavy shelling from military vehicules and many casualties in a march in masjid Ali Ibn Abi Taleb !!!


There was a rumour circulating that is related with the disputation between the armed force. Is it true that senior army lieutenant from Egyptian army and senior police officer defected? Please confirm wherever you hear from your decent source.

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## islamrules

BlueWarrior said:


> There was a rumour circulating that is related with the disputation between the army. Is it true that Senior Army lieutenant from Egyptian army and senior Police officer defected? Please confirm wherever you hear your decent source.


hopefully but Sisi payed them a 50% raise just before this happens and reports say Sawires the coptic dog payed the police . so I don't think they will easly defect .

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## islamrules

Ismailia : peaceful protesters killed by taghout soldiers !!!

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## Sedqal

flamer84 said:


> If i would have a personal grudge against muslims i would not put a equal sign between a church and a mosque.I would not personally dare to throw a stone at a mosque for fear of committing a sin.Those who did that to churches could be(possibility b'cause i can't interpret His will for sure) punished for this terrible act.This is what i believe.



You are right Churches should have been spared, no matter what. Such actions are indefensible.

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## islamrules



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## Dr. Strangelove

every thing happening in egypt should be condemned 

idiot sissi dont have a right to use force on protesters 
and protesters dontt have a right to attacked churches 
and the international ignorance on this crackdown should also be condemned

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## islamrules

Hatem Azzam : Sisi is the mastermind behind all " the counter revolution " during the past two years , he assigned his wive's brother as head of intels

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## islamrules

the hels shelling caused 4 shuhada (headshots) all from Hilwan march that was going to Ramsis 




in masjid tawhid there is more than 20 dead bodies n 100 injured

mohamed elhami : the coptic hospital near Ramsis refuses to recieve the injured but the were forced in

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## islamrules

Al Anadol : masjid Fath : 51 killed and 300 injured in Ramsis square

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## ssethii

islamrules said:


> Ismailia : peaceful protesters killed by taghout soldiers !!!



i don't have words to condole.


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## islamrules

thugs attacking protesters 5 killed in semouha and 3 in abu kir

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## islamrules

In case Sisi kills them and burns their bodies


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## Solomon2

*Michael J. Totten*The Truth About Egypt
15 August 2013





Egypt looks dodgier than ever right now.

Just six weeks after overthrowing the government in a military coup, the armed forces opened fire on civilians protesting the removal of President Mohammad Morsi and killed more than 500 people, prompting President Barack Obama to cancel joint American-Egyptian military drills.

Springtime never came to Cairo at all. In some ways, Egypt is right back where it was when Hosni Mubarak still ruled the country. The political scene is exactly the same. Two illiberal titans&#8212;a military regime and an Islamist opposition&#8212;are battling it out. But in other ways, Egypt is in worse shape now than it was. It&#8217;s more chaotic, more violent. Its economy is imploding, its people increasingly desperate.

I recently interviewed Eric Trager, a scholar at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. He&#8217;s a real expert on Egypt and has been more consistently right than just about anyone. He called out the Muslim Brotherhood as an inherently authoritarian organization while scores of other supposed &#8220;experts&#8221; falsely pimped it as moderate. And contrary to claims from the opposing camp, that the army &#8220;restored&#8221; democracy with its coup, he saw the recent bloody unpleasantness coming well in advance.

I spoke to him before this week&#8217;s massacre happened, but it&#8217;s clear from his remarks that he suspected something like it was coming.




*MJT:* For starters, what do you say to those who insist the Muslim Brotherhood is a moderate and democratic political party?

*Eric Trager:* The Muslim Brotherhood is certainly not democratic. Its view of Egyptian politics in one in which it should control everything. For example, while it is willing to pursue power through elections, once it comes to office its goal is to establish and Islamic state in which it and its institutions control the Egyptian bureaucracy and institute its version of Islam while sidelining and oppressing all opponents.

&#8220;Moderate&#8221; is an even less accurate word in describing the Brotherhood. It&#8217;s designed to weed out moderates during the recruitment process. The process of becoming a Muslim Brother is a five to eight year ordeal where potential Muslim Brothers are vetted through five tiers of membership that tests their commitment to the cause and their willingness to take orders. Anyone who has second thoughts about the organization, the ideology, or their willingness to blindly do what they&#8217;re told, is out.

When the Brotherhood first emerged as the leading organization after the 2011 uprising, a lot of observers thought it would become more moderate when forced to actually govern, but what those analysts overlooked that is that the Brotherhood prevents moderates from becoming members and prevents members from becoming moderates.

*MJT:* How did you learn about their internal structure? What are your sources?

*Eric Trager:* I&#8217;ve interviewed dozens of their leaders and rank-and-file members. I&#8217;ve interviewed many of the top figures that you read about in the press, including Mohammad Morsi.




*MJT*: So your sources are inside the organization rather than outside.

*Eric Trager*: Yes. I&#8217;m one of the few people who talked about this during the aftermath of the uprising, but I didn&#8217;t discover it. Richard Mitchell wrote about it in his book, _The Society of the Muslim Brothers_. It was originally published in 1968 and it&#8217;s considered the classic text on the Brotherhood, but many people who put themselves out there as experts on this subject haven&#8217;t read one of the most basic studies of the organization&#8217;s history. I&#8217;ve talked about this at conferences and been told by supposed experts that the Brotherhood isn&#8217;t structured that way. They obviously haven&#8217;t read Mitchell even though they have to if they&#8217;re going to call themselves experts.

*MJT: *But surely the organization has changed at least somewhat since 1968. That was a long time ago, before I was even born.

*Eric Trager: *Yes, of course. Mitchell lays out the early history of the organization, describes its recruitment process, and spells out the nationwide chain of command. He does these things well. The recruitment process and chain of command have been updated in some important respects. The recruitment process, for instance, has a few more membership levels now than it used to. But the basic idea that this is a vanguard and a closed society that ensures its members are totally committed to the cause and are willing to die for it is still true.

He also wrote that the Muslim Brotherhood was fading, and that didn&#8217;t pan out. But he was writing in 1968 during the time of the Nasser regime when the Brotherhood was severely repressed. He didn&#8217;t foresee its re-emergence under Sadat in the 1970s and then again under Mubarak. That much is understandable.

Many people think of the Brotherhood as an Islamist organization that rejects Al Qaeda style violence, so therefore it&#8217;s &#8220;moderate.&#8221; And this, in fact, is how Muslim Brotherhood leaders describe themselves when I talk to them. I&#8217;ll ask them what they mean when they say they&#8217;re moderates, and they&#8217;ll say, &#8220;we aren&#8217;t Al Qaeda.&#8221; Frankly, that has never been my standard of moderation. [Laughs.]

*I think Washington&#8217;s fascination with the Brotherhood is the product of a search for an Islamist organization that reflects the &#8220;culture&#8221; of the Middle East and isn&#8217;t violent.* There is a lack of appreciation for the fact that just because an organization doesn&#8217;t lead with violence doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s going to be moderate or democratic or capable of governing.

And too many analysts took the Brotherhood&#8217;s claim of moderation at face value. The Brotherhood says it views shura, an Islamic concept that means consultation, as democracy. Many analysts said the Brotherhood is not only adopting democracy, it&#8217;s finding an Islamic justification for it. My view is that far from finding an Islamic justification for democracy, they were simply redefining democracy in a way that wasn&#8217;t democratic but sounded good to the West.

*MJT*: What do you make of all the Brotherhood&#8217;s talk lately about martyrdom? Is that a threat? Are they saying they&#8217;re willing to be killed by the government? Or is it just talk?

*Eric Trager:* The Brotherhood seems to believe that if it can draw the military into a fight directly, it can create fissures within the military&#8212;not necessarily because there are many Islamists in the military, although that&#8217;s possible, but because the Brotherhood believes Egyptian soldiers won&#8217;t fire on fellow Egyptians.

Remember that during the initial uprising, the soldiers didn&#8217;t fire on demonstrators in Tahrir Square. I think, although I can&#8217;t be certain, that many soldiers would have refused to follow that order. We can see this belief that the military would fracture if such orders were given reflected in the Brotherhood&#8217;s statements. For its part, the army insists it&#8217;s one army, that there aren&#8217;t any fissures. So I think that&#8217;s the Brotherhood&#8217;s angle right now.

One other thing: the Brotherhood has a five-part motto. The last two components of that motto are &#8220;Jihad is our way&#8221; and &#8220;Death for the sake of Allah is the highest of our aspirations.&#8221;

It&#8217;s an open question how seriously they take that, but I often ask young Muslim Brotherhood members if they&#8217;d be willing to die as a martyr in Palestine, and some of them say yes.

I interviewed a young Brotherhood member in 2008 and he said he had recently snuck over the border into Gaza, and he said he hoped he&#8217;d be killed by an Israeli missile. It was incredibly disturbing to hear. He was a fairly intelligent twenty year-old. So now I always ask young members if they&#8217;d be willing to die as martyrs in Gaza, and many say they would like that.

So at least some of them take that motto seriously. We&#8217;ve also seen children of the Muslim Brothers dressed in shrouds at demonstrations, which suggests they&#8217;re ready to die. A critical mass of Muslim Brothers have prepared themselves for this possibility.

*MJT:* Why do you think General Sisi removed Morsi? Some Egyptian activists are calling it a &#8220;correction,&#8221; that the democratic revolution went off course, so the army stepped in and hit the reset button. I don&#8217;t buy it, personally. Sisi looks like he might even be somewhat of an Islamist himself. Either way, the man doesn&#8217;t strike me as any kind of democrat.

*Eric Trager: *I don&#8217;t buy it either, but I should say that during my conversations with officials in the Egyptian military leading up to Morsi&#8217;s removal, they didn&#8217;t seem at all eager to re-enter politics. The generals admitted they aren&#8217;t good at governing. They had a bad experience running the country after Mubarak. They aren&#8217;t trained to do police work, they&#8217;re trained to fight wars and defend borders.

But two things happened. First, we had a massive outpouring against Morsi due to his frankly undemocratic rule of the country and his bid to consolidate power for the Muslim Brotherhood.

Second, Morsi completely lost control of the state. By the time the protests started on June 30, he didn&#8217;t control anything. He didn&#8217;t control the police and he obviously didn&#8217;t control the military. He didn&#8217;t control any of the institutions of government, and it made his presidency untenable. So the military stepped in, somewhat reluctantly, first to respond to the protests and also to prevent impending state failure.

But once the army made the decision to step in, as reluctant as it may have been, it&#8217;s modus operandi unquestionably changed. It entered into a direct conflict with the Muslim Brotherhood, perhaps even an existential one. The military believes it not only has to remove Morsi, it has to decapitate the entire organization. Otherwise, the Brotherhood will re-emerge and perhaps kill the generals who removed it from power.

That&#8217;s what&#8217;s in Egypt&#8217;s future right now&#8212;persistent civil strife between the military and its supporters on one side and the Brotherhood and its supporters on the other.

*MJT:* When you say civil strife, I assume you don&#8217;t mean an Algerian-style conflict.

*Eric Trager:* Right. I mean something that&#8217;s probably&#8212;and hopefully&#8212;less deadly and less all-consuming. But it&#8217;s likely to become a constant feature of Egyptian life and politics. There&#8217;s likely to be a steady flow of violence, but it probably won&#8217;t be ubiquitous. It will consist in pockets around demonstration sites. It will be bad enough to disrupt life, and it will likely undermine a transition moving forward, but it probably won&#8217;t be as ugly as in Syria or Algeria.

*MJT:* Do you think getting rid of Morsi was a good thing, a bad thing, or is it too soon to tell?

*Eric Trager:* I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a good thing or a bad thing. It&#8217;s not really for me to say, and anyway I think it was inevitable. Once a president loses control of the state&#8212;whether he&#8217;s removed by a mass uprising, a military coup, or some other scenario&#8212;his presidency become untenable.




When I was standing in Tahrir Square after Morsi was removed, a felt a certain amount of sadness because I knew that violence would be an inevitable and significant consequence. People in the square were very happy, but people in another square a few miles away people were mourning. They believe something has been stolen from them, and they intend to fight to get it back.

I think the Brotherhood won&#8217;t get it back. It&#8217;s highly unlikely that Morsi will see the light of day outside a courtroom. But it&#8217;s a fight that&#8217;s going to continue for a while, and it&#8217;s a fight that many of those celebrating in the square that evening didn&#8217;t think about. Egyptian society is so polarized right now that the anti-Morsi camp and the pro-Morsi camp are beyond talking past each other. They exist in their own separate universes.




*MJT*: How much support do you think the Muslim Brotherhood actually lost since it won the election?

*Eric Trager*: It has lost substantial public support. Think back to the early presidential elections in 2012. Morsi only won five million votes, which was 25 percent of the votes cast. That&#8217;s not a high number. It&#8217;s substantially lower than what the Brotherhood had won just a few months earlier in the parliamentary elections. So already by May 2012, the Muslim Brotherhood&#8217;s support shrunk back to its base which is only around five million people.

The Brotherhood&#8217;s power is not derived from mass public support and it never has been. It is derived from its exceptional organization capabilities on one hand, and the fact that the rest of Egypt is deeply divided and highly disorganized on the other. That&#8217;s still the case. I think if Egypt had free and fair elections today, the Brotherhood would still do well and might even win because nobody else is prepared to run in an election.

Of course, I don&#8217;t expect there will be free and fair elections ahead, and the nature of the Brotherhood is about to change because the military is decapitating it. It&#8217;s hard to see right now exactly who will emerge, but whoever emerges given the current trajectory will need significant military support.

*MJT*: Why don&#8217;t you expect a free election?

*Eric Trager*: As reluctant as the military may have been to remove Morsi, now that it&#8217;s back in the picture, it won&#8217;t repeat the quote unquote &#8220;mistakes&#8221; it made last time. Certainly it&#8217;s going to view one of those mistakes as working with the Brotherhood to have parliamentary elections that the Brotherhood could win. I assume it will not allow the Brotherhood to re-emerge. The military will do something to the elections or to the Brotherhood that will take &#8220;free and fair&#8221; out of the equation.

*MJT*: Okay, so let&#8217;s say the White House were to ask you for advice about how to proceed if what you just said turns out to be true. What would you tell them?

*Eric Trager*: I&#8217;ve been telling the White House that they need to remember what they in Alcoholics Anonymous call the Serenity Prayer. &#8220;God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.&#8221;

I&#8217;ve never been to Alcoholics Anonymous and I&#8217;m not an alcoholic, but it&#8217;s relevant to what&#8217;s happening in Egypt right now. We need to understand what the consequences of removing Morsi are for the military. For example, Secretary of State Chuck Hagel told Sisi he needed to release Morsi, but this is something that&#8217;s never going to happen. A general is not going to release a president he just toppled.

*MJT:* Right.

*Eric Trager*: This is something we can&#8217;t change, and if we try to change it, we&#8217;re going to fail, and we&#8217;re going to look like failures. Better to focus on the things we can change.

One thing we might be able to do is convince the military to deal with the Brotherhood and its supporters less violently. The military needs to find other mechanisms for containing these protests. That&#8217;s the first thing.

The second thing is to try to get a civilian-led transition process going that is open to participation by the Brotherhood, but isn&#8217;t dependent on participation by the Brotherhood. Instead of focusing on inclusion during the transition, we should focus on its effectiveness giving the Brotherhood&#8212;or what&#8217;s left of it&#8212;the choice to participate or not participate.

When the military removed Morsi, it promised exactly that kind of process and we should hold them accountable to what they&#8217;ve promised at the very least.

*MJT*: I assume that when you go over there you hear the same sorts of things from secular Egyptians that I do. Secular people in Egypt tell me they think the Obama administration is allied with the Muslim Brotherhood. Secular people in Tunisia say the same thing, and liberals in Lebanon think we&#8217;re siding with Bashar al-Assad in Syria. I hear this every single day without exception when I&#8217;m in the region.

*Eric Trager*: Of course, so do I.

*MJT*: What do you make of all that? Is it a result of unforced errors on the part of the United States government, or is it just typical Middle Eastern insanity?

*Eric Trager*: The United States has done a very poor job managing perceptions in Egypt. The administration assumed if it wasn&#8217;t critical about Morsi&#8217;s behavior domestically, they&#8217;d win his cooperation on foreign policy. The problem is that Morsi was only willing to cooperate with us on foreign policy in the short run. The Muslim Brotherhood wants to consolidate power in Egypt and then create a global Islamic state. It&#8217;s a key part of their ideology and their rhetoric. They talk about it with me. They can&#8217;t be our partners.

Worse, by not speaking up and criticizing Morsi as he tried to create unchecked power for himself, it created the impression that the United States wanted to replace Mubarak with the Muslim Brotherhood. That&#8217;s extremely damaging in a place like Egypt with such tumultuous politics.

We didn&#8217;t support the Brotherhood. We failed to speak up and manage perceptions. In the future, the only way to address this problem will be to make sure we don&#8217;t put all our eggs in one basket. We have to spread our risk by making sure we engage everybody.

*MJT*: Okay, now let me ask you this. Why should everyday Americans care about what happens in Egypt?

*Eric Trager:* For the simple reason that Egypt is a lynchpin of American foreign policy in the Middle East. It&#8217;s important for counter-terrorism, for maintaining the peace treaty with Israel, ensuring overflight rights so our planes can deliver goods to the Persian Gulf, to check Iran&#8217;s interests, and ensure passage through the Suez Canal.

But what I&#8217;ve found is that Americans not only understand Egypt&#8217;s importance strategically, they&#8217;re fascinated by Egypt. We study Egypt in the sixth grade. We learn about ancient Egyptian history even as children. It&#8217;s mentioned in the Bible. It&#8217;s one of the few countries in the world that actually resonates with ordinary Americans.

I think that&#8217;s why the American news media focused mostly on Egypt during the Arab Spring. Democratic uprisings in other countries wouldn&#8217;t attract the same kind of attention.

*MJT:* That&#8217;s certainly true. Tunisia was and still is mostly ignored, and it&#8217;s practically right next door.

*Eric Trager: *And farther afield we have countries like Burma. Most people don&#8217;t pay attention to these places. But Egypt resonates in America the way few other countries do.

I went on Egyptian television recently because people were angry about something I wrote on Twitter. So I went on to clear the air, and one of the things I said was that Americans are rooting for Egypt and that Egyptians should know that even when we have disagreements, Americans like Egypt. That&#8217;s not just rhetoric, that&#8217;s a fact.

Here&#8217;s something interesting: In 2010, Israel&#8217;s popularity in the United States was at 63 percent according to a Gallup poll. That same year, Egypt&#8217;s popularity was at 58 percent.

We know why Americans like Israel. We can trace it to the Bible, the fact that Israel is a Jewish country, it&#8217;s democratic, it&#8217;s developed, and all these other things. But Egypt is not democratic. It is not well-developed.

*MJT*: Yes, that is interesting.

*Eric Trager:* When Americans think about Egypt, they think about the pharaohs, the pyramids, and the Bible. They know about the peace treaty with Israel.

Some Egyptians get upset when they find out that Americans equate Egypt with the pyramids and the pharaohs, but for whatever reason, Egypt holds a special place in the American imagination.




*MJT*: What do Egyptians say when you tell them about the Gallup poll?

*Eric Trager*: I mention it all the time. And it&#8217;s not just that 58 percent of Americans liked Egypt in 2010. In 2011, something like 88 percent supported the uprising against Hosni Mubarak. That&#8217;s incredible.

*MJT*: And what the Egyptians say about that?

*Eric Trager*: One on one, it touches them. So I think it needs to be part of our public diplomacy. We have interests there. The United States Embassy in Egypt is one of the largest in the world. But Americans also like Egypt. They like visiting Egypt and seeing the pyramids and going to Luxor. And they like being with an ally.

*MJT*: Is Egypt _really_ an ally at this point?

*Eric Trager*: Among Egyptians there is strong hostility toward the United States and American foreign policy. Conspiracy theories are rampant, especially about 9/11. Dealing with that will always be a significant challenge. 

At the same time, Egypt has been basically cooperative with American strategic interests for nearly forty years. We have significant disagreements about Egyptian domestic politics, and it&#8217;s a tumultuous place, but unless hostile Islamists emerge yet again&#8212;which is certainly possible&#8212;Egypt will remain in the American camp.

And there&#8217;s the odd fact that Americans really like Egypt.




*MJT*: That is odd. It seems even more odd to me now that I&#8217;ve actually been there several times.

*Eric Trager*: I was shocked when I saw these polls.

*MJT*: Me too, but I suppose I&#8217;m only a little bit shocked. I used to think about Egypt in exactly the way you described&#8212;that it&#8217;s a great ancient Mediterranean civilization. My perception of the place is very different now, but my original impression was precisely the one you described.

*Eric Trager*: Of course Egypt&#8217;s popularity has declined in America since 2010. It&#8217;s tumultuous, full of radicals, and has an aggressive military. Its popularity is not what it was a few years ago.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Yes, being a Muslim doesn't mean you can't be a terrorist  right @Juice? 


Jihad_ said:


> Saudi Arabias King Abdullah says the kingdom supports Egypt in the fight against terrorism
> 
> 
> 
> In reality he supports the killing of muslims...

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## islamrules

53 now dead in Ramsis n a thousand injured , 25 in semouha Alexandria

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## islamrules

Breaking and Confirmed in Ramsis : withdrawal after a police officer shot his fellow policemen and killed 7

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## islamrules

the death toll rises in Alexandria alone to 30 , and a thousand injured

Ismailia : snipers prevent people from taking this guy's body 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=188270328014146

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## islamrules

Rasd: 75 killed in masjid El Fath , the relatives r taking the bodies out in fear Sisi decides to burn them

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## islamrules

*Sisi shelling people with helis *

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## XENOHARMONIA DRAGON

zionist will use the stupid & dumb arab khawarij...to kill & destroy ummah from inside
DIE ARAB DIE>>>>>>>>>>>>> WITHOUT ARAB EARTH WILL COME INTO PEACE


"There will be in my Community a dissent and a faction, a people with excellent words and vile deeds. They will read Qur'an, but their faith does not go past their throats. They will pass through religion the way an arrow passes through its quarry. They will no more come back to the religion than the arrow will come back to its original course. They are the worst of human beings and the worst of all creation. The one who kills them or is killed by them is blessed. They summon to the book of Allah but they have nothing to do with it. Whoever kills them is closer to Allah than they. Their sign is that they shave (their heads)."

"A people will come out at the end of times, immature, foolish and corrupt. They will hold the discourse of the best of creation and recite Qur'an, but it will not go past their throats. They will passes through religion the way an arrow passes through its quarry. If you find them, kill them, for verily whoever kills them will have his reward from Allah the Day of Judgment."

"The apex of disbelief is towards the East [Najd]. Pride and arrogance is found among the people of the horse and the camel [Bedouin Arabs]."

"Harshness and dryness of heart are in the East [Najd], and true belief is among the people of Hijaz."

A version has, "The two epochs [or horns] of shaytan." Some scholars have said that the dual referred to Musaylima the Arch-liar and to Muhammad ibn `Abd al-Wahhab.

When `Ali killed the Khawarij, someone said: "Praise be to Allah Who has brought them down and relieved us from them." Ali replied: "Verily, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, some of them are still in the loins of men and they have not been born yet, and the last of them will fight on the side of the Antichrist."

14. "A people that recite the Qur'an will come out of the East, but it will not go past their throats. Every time a generation of them is cut down another one will come until the last one finds itself on the side of the Antichrist."

15. "There will be a huge confusion within my Community. There will not remain one house of the Arabs except that confusion will enter it. Those who die because of it are in the fire. The harm of the tongue in it will be greater than that of the sword."

16. "There will be a dissension (in which people will be) deaf, dumb and blind (this means they will be blind and not see the true issue nor listen to the voice of truth): whoever tries to control it, the dissension will control him."

17. "A shaytan will appear in Najd by whose dissension the Arabian island will quake."

18. On the authority of al-`Abbas: "A man will come out of the Wadi Abu Hanifah [in Najd] (whose appearance is) like a bull that lunges against its yoke. There will be much slaughter and killing in his time. They will make the possessions of Muslims lawful for themselves and for trade among themselves. They will make the lives of Muslims lawful for themselves and for boasting among themselves. In that confusion the despised and the lowly will attain positions of power. Their idle desires will keep company with them the way a dog keeps company with its master."

19. On the authority of Abu Sa`id al-Khudri: "Verily in the wake of this time of mine comes a people who will recite Qur'an but it will not go past their throats. They will pass through religion the way an arrow passes through its quarry. They will kill the Muslims and leave the idolaters alone. If I saw them, verily I would kill them the way the tribe of `Aad was killed [i.e. all of them]."

20. "There will be towards the end of time a people who will say to you what neither you nor your forebears ever heard before. Beware of them lest they misguide you and bring you confusion."

21. "They will pass through Islam like an arrow passes through its quarry. Wherever you meet them, kill them!"

22. "They are the dogs of the people of Hell."

23. "They recite Qur'an and consider it in their favor but it is against them."

24. "There will be thirty dajjals (antichrists) after me, all claiming prophethood."

25. "Some people will be standing and calling at the gates of hell; whoever responds to their call, their will throw him into the Fire. They will be from our own people [i.e. Arabs] and will speak our language [Arabic]. Should you live to see them, stick to the main body (jama`a) of the Muslims and their leader. (If there is no main body and no leader,) isolate yourself from all these sects, even if you have to eat from the roots of trees until death overcomes you while you are in that state."[/B]


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## islamrules

Breaking : Wall street journal reporter in sphinx square Giza : a police vehicule defected and is shooting the other police vehicules

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## Shapur Zol Aktaf

Islamrules how many people are killed in total today till now?


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## J dud

democracy isnt for the Egyptians i m afraid...............

arab spring .........what a joke


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## XENOHARMONIA DRAGON

Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 5991
Narrated by Talhah son of Malik
Allah's Messenger (S+) said, "One of the signs of the approach of the Last Hour will be the destruction of the Arabs."

Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 5364 Narrated byHudhayfah
The Prophet (S+) said, "The last hour will not come till you have killed your leader ( Imaam), fight together with your swords, and your worst ones inherit your worldly goods."

Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 5401
Narrated by Abdullah ibn Amr
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said,
"There will be civil strife which will wipe out the Arabs, and their slain will go to Hell. During it the tongue will be more severe than blows of the sword."

Sahih Muslim 7035
Umm Sharik reported
that the messenger of Allah said:
"The people will flee from the Dajjaal (the Anti- Christ) till they will take shelter in the mountains." Umm Sharik said that she asked: "Where will be the Arabs at this time?" He answered: "They will be few (in number)."

Sahih Muslim 6853
'Iyad b. Himar reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), while delivering a sermon one day, said:
Behold, my Lord commanded me that I should teach you which you do not know and which He has taught me today. (He has instructed thus): The property which I have conferred upon them is lawful for them. I have created My servants as one having a natural inclination to the worship of Allah but it is Satan who turns them away from the right religion and he makes unlawful what has been declared lawful for them and he commands them to ascribe partnership with Me, although he has no justification for that. And verily, Allah looked towards the people of the world and He showed hatred for the Arabs and the non-Arabs, but with the exception of some remnants from the People of the Book. And He (further) said: I have sent thee (the Holy Prophet) in order to put you to test and put (those to test) through you. And I sent the Book (al_kitaab) to you which cannot be washed away by water, so that you may recite it while in the state of wakefulness or sleep.


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## islamrules

Shapur Zol Aktaf said:


> Islamrules how many people are killed in total today till now?



100 at least

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## Jihad_

> Saudi King Abdullah declares support for Egypt against terrorism
> 
> 
> Egypt's presidency: Egypt will never forget the historic stance of Saudi King Abdullah
> 
> 
> Jordan praises Saudi king's position on Egypt: Al Arabiya correspondent
> 
> 
> 
> UAE declares full support for Saudi king&#8217;s statements on Egypt




Evil Dictators scratching each other back.


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## islamrules

thugs hunting people down

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## islamrules

95 killed in Ramsis

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## kalu_miah

Juice said:


> It was no false war....it was very real. And as you guys support burning churches...*we obviously didn't kill enough*....



This says it all.

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## islamrules



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## JUBA

Jihad_ said:


> Saudi Arabia&#8217;s King Abdullah says the kingdom supports Egypt in the fight against terrorism
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In reality he supports the killing of muslims...




KSA support Egypt as a country first and the Egyptian army against Al-Qaeda terrorists groups in Sinai, not the recent MP crackdown.


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## islamrules

on their way to free jerusalem 






Police in civil clothes

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## islamrules

the Israeli tenth TV : the Egyptian military told their israeli counterparts that the MB will be declared a terrorist organization

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## islamrules




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## kalu_miah

islamrules said:


> the Israeli tenth TV : the Egyptian military told their israeli counterparts that the MB will be declared a terrorist organization



What percent of Army and police are copts?


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## islamrules

If we count only the deads in Ramsi Giza and Alexandria we have 125 killed at least so far



kalu_miah said:


> What percent of Army and police are copts?



I don't know

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## islamrules

this accualy is true 
Alhayat TV : the MB are shelling the protesters with the morshid's private jet plane !!!!

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## kalu_miah

@islamrules Do you think MB can win against the alliance of copts, liberal/secular and anti-MB Muslims, Army, Police etc.? This is no longer democracy, there is no democratic right of peaceful assembly, march and protesting and voicing ones opinion. Military is in power and they have declared emergency. People are getting shot and killed by the thousands and my heart goes out to all the victims and their families.

At this point, it has simply become two groups fighting for power. If it continues like this, it may turn out to be a civil war and MB may loose, because non-MB may blame the MB leaders for irresponsible decisions.

If MB has a winning strategy, please tell me what it is? Without a strategy and possibility of winning, MB may be loosing valuable workers in a futile struggle, who could be used in the future for a possible win.

There is no Copts or Shia in power here, like Syria. Egyptian polity is 90% Sunni Muslim. The liberal/secular, MB, anti-MB, they are artificial divisions. The more 90% Muslims will become divided, the worse it will become for Egypt.


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## Jihad_

I think democracy has failed, muslims should go back to their roots, quran and sunna. Rejecting democracy. I believe many muslims have opened their eyes to this. 

As u know, not all muslims supported Morsi, thinking democracy was not the way to go. And they we're right. Muslims are not allowed to rule trough democratic means... 

But they are against the coup. This is not anymore about Morsi or MB, u don't see many morsi banners. But a popular uprising against an oppressive militairy coup.


So we will see two narratives:

Army is fighting "terrorism"

Muslims fighting for freedom against militairy coup. And perhaps "kuffars"


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## ELTurco

*Egypt massacre no longer an internal affair, Gül says*






Turkeys ambassador to Egypt, Hüseyin Avni Botsal&#305;, speaks to reporters at &#304;stanbul Atatürk Airport before flying to Ankara on Friday. 


Turkish President Abdullah Gül has stated that the bloody military crackdown on supporters of deposed Egyptian leader Mohammed Morsi has gone beyond the internal affairs of Egypt, rejecting Egyptian accusations of Turkish interference in the country's domestic affairs.




Turkey's warnings should be seen as reflecting a friend's warnings that emanate from feelings of sorrow and shock with a desire to help, not interference in another country's domestic affairs, Gül said at the third summit meeting of the Cooperation Council of Turkic Speaking States in Azerbaijan's Qebele city.

Last Wednesday was the bloodiest day in decades in the Arab world's most populous nation. At least 638 people were killed, including 43 police officers, and nearly 4,000 were wounded, the Health Ministry said, in clashes that spread beyond Cairo to towns and cities around the country.

Egyptian security forces backed by armored cars and bulldozers moved to clear two sit-in camps of Morsi's supporters in Cairo's Rabaa al-Adawiya Square and Giza's Nahda Square, showering protesters with tear gas as the sound of gunfire rang out at both sites.

The move has not only sparked angry protests in provinces across the country, with deadly clashes being reported in several areas, but also received the harsh condemnation of Turkey.

Gül's response came after the Egyptian Foreign Ministry condemned the Turkish statements, saying they crossed the line and accusing Turkey of interference.

Turkey's strong criticism of the July 3 coup and this week's brutal crackdown on Morsi supporters has strained ties with the new Egyptian administration.

Unfortunately, the death toll has started to become clear and is now approaching 600. This is unacceptable. The number of deaths remains this high only in wars. We strongly condemn these [incidents]. Even in wars, the loss of life is not at this rate. Using the military against the [Egyptian] nation cannot be accepted, said Gül, calling on the international community to help the conflict-ridden Egypt to overcome the tumult.

Gül stated that it was of great importance to pull Egypt out of the current chaotic situation, saying everyone should help Egypt.

"Besides analyzing the case and expressing feelings, there is a third point to say, which is how the country should emerge from the incidents. In such an environment of chaos, there is a knocked-out-cold condition in Egypt. It's important to pull Egypt out of that position. In this respect, we and the international community should help the country," Gül said.

The Turkish president underlined that the main task belonged to the Egyptians. If they [Egyptians] fail to read the situation in Egypt and don't protect their own country, it is hard to intervene from the outside. They need to pull Egypt out of it with common sense. Otherwise, the most significant country in the Middle East will get consumed by its people and its army, added Gül.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdo&#287;an told a group of reporters that his position on Egypt is clear, adding that he supports democracy, and that democratic values in Egypt should be given back to the people.

*Turkey, Egypt recall ambassadors*

Turkey and Egypt recalled their ambassadors following Ankara's condemnation of the bloody crackdown by Egyptian security forces on supporters of ousted President Morsi. Turkey recalled its Ambassador to Egypt Huseyin Avni Botsal&#305; for consultations. 

While Turkish leaders kept up their criticisms of Egypt, calling the violence there a "shame for Islam and the Arab world," Botsali, who was summoned by Egypt's Foreign Ministry recently over the Turkish criticisms, arrived in Turkey on Friday for consultations. It was not clear when the ambassador would return to his post.

"It is hoped and wished that this suffering will not be repeated again. Egypt should immediately return to its democratic process, civilian administration and start recovering. This is what Turkey wishes, said Botsal&#305;, who replied to reporters' questions on his arrival at Istanbul's International Ataturk Airport.

Botsal&#305; also urged Turkish citizens in Egypt to avoid making intercity travels, adding that Turkish citizens should not leave their homes and shops during the critical times.

Botsal&#305; had already been reappointed to Sarajevo in January this year and his term in Cairo officially ended on June 30. The Turkish Foreign Ministry, however, asked the ambassador to stay in the country for a while longer due to the unrest.

Botsal&#305; has been serving as the ambassador in Cairo for three-and-a-half years. His family has already left the country.

Turkey's Foreign Ministry has warned its nationals who are based in Egypt or set to travel to the country to avoid traveling on roads in the country.

Meanwhile, in remarks to the Turkish press before leaving to Cairo, the Egyptian ambassador in Ankara has stated that Turkish officials did not share their opinions with the current Egyptian administration on how the crisis in Egypt could be solved.

While emphasizing that Egypt has discussed the current political situation with many countries, Salaheldin stated that Ankara did not share any plans with us [Egypt]. We learnt Turkey's opinion from newspapers.

*Egypt starts implementing accreditation for Turkish journalists*

In the meantime, Egyptian authorities have started to implement a new procedure for Turkish journalists since Aug. 15. From that date, Turkish journalists should get accreditation and permission from Egyptian authorities, including the Intelligence Service, Interior Ministry and Military Intelligence Service, to enter Egypt to cover the incidents.


Egypt massacre no longer an internal affair, Gül says - Today's Zaman, your gateway to Turkish daily news

*Egypt cancels naval war games with Turkey*






Turkish naval ships are seen in the Mediterranean sea. 

Egypt has canceled naval military drills with Turkey after Ankara&#8217;s harsh criticism of the Arab nation&#8217;s violent crackdown on Muslim Brotherhood protesters that has killed more than 600.


The decision to cancel joint naval war games and the one within NATO came a day after Ankara announced that it is recalling its ambassador from Cairo and illustrated the rapidly deteriorating relations with Egypt, where spiraling violence prompted the government there to declare a nationwide state of emergency and a nighttime curfew.

The army on July 3 took power from Mohammed Morsi, a top Muslim Brotherhood official who became Egypt's first democratically elected leader a year ago after the ouster of long-time dictator Hosni Mubarak.

Egypt Independent, citing a report from Al-Masry Al-Youm, said Egyptian Foreign Ministry said in a written statement that it decided to cancel a joint naval exercise with Turkey entitled &#8220;Sea of Friendship,&#8221; which was scheduled to take place from 21 to 28 October 2013 in Turkey.

The ministry described Turkey&#8217;s criticism of Egypt&#8217;s crackdown on protesters as &#8220;blunt interference in Egyptian affairs, which run counter to the will of the Egyptian people.&#8221;

On Friday, however, Levent Gümrükçü, Turkish Foreign Ministry spokesman, said in his Twitter feed that Turkey conveyed to Egypt about its decision to cancel invitations to participate in the joint naval military exercise and another one within NATO.

It was not immediately clear which country cancelled the naval drills first. 

http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetail_getNewsById.action;jsessionid=3729535F68F4D3A6FDA5997DCB1B34C6?newsId=323773

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## islamrules

kalu_miah said:


> @islamrules Do you think MB can win against the alliance of copts, liberal/secular and anti-MB Muslims, Army, Police etc.? This is no longer democracy, there is no democratic right of peaceful assembly, march and protesting and voicing ones opinion. Military is in power and they have declared emergency. People are getting shot and killed by the thousands and my heart goes out to all the victims and their families.
> 
> At this point, it has simply become two groups fighting for power. If it continues like this, it may turn out to be a civil war and MB may loose, because non-MB may blame the MB leaders for irresponsible decisions.
> 
> If MB has a winning strategy, please tell me what it is? Without a strategy and possibility of winning, MB may be loosing valuable workers in a futile struggle, who could be used in the future for a possible win.
> 
> There is no Copts or Shia in power here, like Syria. Egyptian polity is 90% Sunni Muslim. The liberal/secular, MB, anti-MB, they are artificial divisions. The more 90% Muslims will become divided, the worse it will become for Egypt.


The MB have a right cause but no strategies indeed n they make a lot of critical errors, just now for exemple Jihad Hadad their spokesman said that they should withdraw from Ramsis after 95 were killed there !! 
But this has passed them , the rest of muslims are on board now, this is not the MB's revolution anymore. As for democracy I don't think they will ever have one, the way I c it is that the munafikines n kuffars inside n the west will never allow them calmly to have an islamic prosperous rich independent strong country .

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## kalu_miah

Jihad_ said:


> I think democracy has failed, muslims should go back to their roots, quran and sunna. Rejecting democracy. I believe many muslims have opened their eyes to this.
> 
> As u know, not all muslims supported Morsi, thinking democracy was not the way to go. And they we're right. Muslims are not allowed to rule trough democratic means...
> 
> But they are against the coup. This is not anymore about Morsi or MB, u don't see many morsi banners. But a popular uprising against an oppressive militairy coup.
> 
> So we will see two narratives:
> 
> Army is fighting "terrorism"
> 
> Muslims fighting for freedom against militairy coup. And perhaps "kuffars"



Democracy is a step by step process, you don't achieve it in one day or one year. It takes years of institution building and a track record of precedence, while the public become accustomed to them.

Muslims like people of any other religion can practice democracy. What makes you think Quran and Sunnah is against democracy?

If MB and butcher Army do not manage to trigger a civil war, the liberal/secular Muslims will come back to the streets to demand elections. The only way MB can beat the Army is by teaming up with liberal/secular Muslims and unite the 90% Muslim populations. The Copts, I think they are crazy and not sure if they have the best interest of Egypt at heart. They would not hesitate to support a military rule, because that will keep MB out of politics and power sharing. After what they have done in this Tamarod fiasco, they are now scared of reprisals.


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## kalu_miah

islamrules said:


> The MB have a right cause but no strategies indeed n they make a lot of critical errors, *just now for exemple Jihad Hadad their spokesman said that they should withdraw from Ramsis after 95 were killed there !! *
> But this has passed them , the rest of muslims are on board now, this is not the MB's revolution anymore. As for democracy I don't think they will ever have one, the way I c it is that the munafikines n kuffars inside n the west will never allow them calmly to have an islamic prosperous rich independent strong country .



Brother, I appreciate your effort in posting all information you are posting. You are doing excellent work.

But the bold part above is exactly what I was talking about, actions without strategy is useless. There is lack of cool reasoning in the leadership, that is why the enemy is winning every time.

When you say the rest of the Muslims are on board, yes that is some progress. If you can unite most of the 90% Muslims, that will do the trick. The 10% Copts will always work for external enemy and sabotage the cause of Islam and Muslims. The blood of the thousand Shaheeds will be worth it, if the sympathy for them can bring the 90% Muslims together.

But this time, MB must make promises to rest of non-MB Muslims and keep those promises to have inclusive govt., specially for all Muslims. This coalition building needs to happen now, before making further moves against this murderous Army, which has become a tool of the enemy.


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## hussain0216

Agreed about the copts they are treacherous

But the so called secular liberal Muslims are worst, these people shouldn't even call themselves Muslims they are the biggest opponents of Muslims and implementation of islam


They have instigated along with the copts the military coup and have blood on their hands

Any Muslim let alone the Muslim brotherhood should never work with these snakes


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## islamrules

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=188336628007516


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## kalu_miah

hussain0216 said:


> Agreed about the copts they are treacherous
> 
> But the so called secular liberal Muslims are worst, these people shouldn't even call themselves Muslims they are the biggest opponents of Muslims and implementation of islam
> 
> They have instigated along with the copts the military coup and have blood on their hands
> 
> Any Muslim let alone the Muslim brotherhood should never work with these snakes



There is a small minority who will never work with Muslim Brotherhood as they benefit from Military rule, but vast majority of non-MB Muslims will work with MB to defeat the Army, as long as MB pledges to work with them for a genuine power shared inclusive democracy.

Brother @islamrules, please tell us if the above is a valid statement.


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## idune

kalu_miah said:


> Democracy is a step by step process, you don't achieve it in one day or one year. It takes years of institution building and a track record of precedence, while the public become accustomed to them.



Democracy is a "step by step process" BUT it was Copts and secular minority joined forces with external and military power to overthrow elected govt. Copts and secular which did not and do not want democracy but want to impose their wish over majority population with gun power. You can not talk about democracy with copts and secular when they don't want it and destroyed it, period. Much like Bangladeshi secular thugs.


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## Jihad_

Video of protesters in the Cairo subway on Fri chanting for the downfall of the government.


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## islamrules

Poor Morsi he must be dead now 

Sisi not only kills people he then besieges their dead bodies in the masjads !!

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## Jihad_

Wrong topic.


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## kalu_miah

idune said:


> Democracy is a "step by step process" BUT it was Copts and secular minority joined forces with external and military power to powers to overthrow elected govt. Copts and secular which did not and does not want democracy but wants to impose their wish over majority population. You can not talk about democracy with copts and secular when they dont want it and destroyed it, period. Much like Bangladeshi secular thugs.



Despite many similarities, the two countries are different. Yes Egypt has 10% Copts, like we have 9% Hindus and both are not loyal to the cause of 90% Muslims, that is similar. In both cases external forces are supporting the seculars and opposing the Islamists. But Bangladesh has a democratic tradition for at least 22 years. It was only in last 6 years that Awami League has tried to monopolize power and abolish democracy, whereas in Egypt democracy is only 1 year old. Also, Egypt's socio-economic conditions are better than Bangladesh. Though poor, Egypt has much higher GDP. So Egypt is much more ready to fight for their democratic rights than Bangladesh is.

As I said in an earlier post, the majority of non-MB Muslims in Egypt will work with MB, just like majority of Bangladeshi Muslims today will support and vote for BNP-Jamat alliance. In Bangladesh case, unfortunately, the vote will be rigged, so pro-India Awami League can win and Bangladeshi's reaction in that case we will have to wait and see. In Egypt case, I think a rigged election, like Mubarak era will be more difficult to pull off, that is my feeling, but I could be wrong. So best option for MB is still to work with other Muslims to bring democracy and a free and fair election. Choosing the path of violence would be OK if they could win, but I do not see how they can win, considering the elements stacked against them.


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## hussain0216

The egyptian elections will not be free and fair

The military will not allow it

Egypt has almost missed its chance at free and fair democracy

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## islamrules

kalu_miah said:


> There is a small minority who will never work with Muslim Brotherhood as they benefit from Military rule, but vast majority of non-MB Muslims will work with MB to defeat the Army, as long as MB pledges to work with them for a genuine power shared inclusive democracy.
> 
> Brother @islamrules, please tell us if the above is a valid statement.



I am affraid we r now way back Jan 25, the army will not sit down again like they did 2 years ago, they r out for blood, that is what they said n did, so the talk about the MB sharing power is so meaningless right now. they have to make it alive first .

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## kalu_miah

islamrules said:


> I am affraid we r now way back Jan 25, the army will not sit down again like they did 2 years ago, they r out for blood, that is what they said n did, so the talk about the MB sharing power is so meaningless right now. they have to make it alive first .



I see. So what you are saying is that even if MB supporters stay home and do not fight, the police and Army is going to round them up and kill as many as possible? If that is the case, then it is better to die fighting with arms than die protesting or in torture cells. If the Military wants a civil war, they will get one I guess.

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## Brutas

Israeli's are happy. Savages wiping out each other to oblivion !


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## hussain0216

No no violence

My natural inclination is to fight

But that is what the military and the liberals want, no matter what the Muslim in Egypt do the military and seculars will hate them supported by a biased anti muslim world who will look the other way because the people dying are so called islamists 

So the muslim brotherhood needs to keep it peaceful for the moment at least in the face of enormous provocation

Garner the support of Muslims across the world

They have waited 80 years they can wait more, the seculars and military must eventually be crushed

Bu for the moment the M.B protests are removing all legitimacy from the military and state

The military and seculars are looking like scum and Egypt is ungovernable



Brutas said:


> Israeli's are happy. Savages wiping out each other to oblivion !



There are 1.7 billion Muslims with every year hundreds of millions of more muslims being added through birth or conversion

Reality is all this chaos due to necessary change is not even a tiny scratch in our numbers

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## kalu_miah

Egypt's bloodbath: The battle for Egypt | The Economist

*The battle for Egypt*

*The generals killing spree is a reckless denial of the lessons from the Arab spring*
Aug 17th 2013 |From the print edition

BARELY a month and a half into a government dominated by a general who had displaced a Muslim Brother in a coup that was cheered on by most of the people, Egypt is once again plunged into violence. On August 14th armed police, backed by helicopters in the skies and bulldozers on the streets, stormed thousands of the Brothers supporters encamped beside a mosque and a university in Cairo. Hundreds were killed and nearly 3,000 injured and the violence spread to other cities, including Alexandria and Suez (see article). A score of churches were burned by angry Islamists. The government declared a curfew in some provinces and a month-long state of emergency across the country. The last time that happened, when Hosni Mubarak took over as president after the assassination of Anwar Sadat in 1981, the state of emergency remained in force for 30 years.

The government has pleaded that it used the utmost degree of self-restraint this week. In fact, its choice to unleash deadly force against its own people was brutal and reckless. Far from marking the closing chapter in a popular coup, the killing threatens a period of strife that could drag the country towards civil war. At worst, the spectre of Algeria looms: the army there prevented Islamists from taking office after they won the first round of an election in 1991, and as many as 200,000 died in the decade-long bloodbath that ensued.

Thankfully Egypt still has a long way to go before that fate befalls it. But its 85m people are as deeply divided today as at any time since Egypt became a republic in 1953. The question is whether suppression really is now the way to deal with the Muslim Brothers, or whether it simply adds to the mayhem.

Death on the Nile
One view holds that the Muslim Brothers never intended to share power or to relinquish it in an election. There is no doubt that Muhammad Morsis performance as president was a disaster. He won about a quarter of the eligible vote and proceeded to flout every sort of democratic norm. His government packed a constitutional committee with Islamists, rushing through electoral and other laws without due consent. It let sectarian hatred against Muslim minorities and Egypts 8m-odd Christians rise unchecked. Combined with sheer incompetence in its stewardship of the economy, this destroyed the standing of Mr Morsi among ordinary Egyptians. More than 20m peoplehalf the adult populationwere said to have signed a petition for a referendum on his presidency.

Since his forced removal on July 3rd and subsequent incarceration, he and his fellow Brothers at large have refused any hint of compromise, and have demanded his reinstatement. How much more exhilarating was opposition than the tricky realities of governing. Victimhood, martyrdom even, has seemed a more potent political weapon than policymaking.

But that does not excuse the generalsfor either the coup or this bloodshed. The coup was not only wrong, it was also a tactical mistake. The Brothers would probably have lost any election handily; and if they had refused to hold a vote, then the people would have risen up. The armys violence since then has been disastrous. When it shot scores of people on July 8th, it drew a baleful lesson from the tepid Western response: that it could get away with it. In fact violence has served to unite Egypts various Islamist factionssome of which had previously rejected the Brothers almost as keenly as secular Egyptians did. The Brothers incompetence and abuse of power is now disappearing under a mantle of injustice and suffering.

The generals worst mistake, however, is to ignore the chief lesson of the Arab spring. This is that ordinary people yearn for dignity. They hate being bossed around by petty officials and ruled by corrupt autocrats. They reject the apparatus of a police state. Instead they want better lives, decent jobs and some basic freedoms. Egypts Islamists, in their reduced state, probably still make up 30% or so of the population. The generals cannot suppress them without also depriving millions of other Egyptians of the freedoms that they craveand which they have tasted, however briefly, since the overthrow of Mr Mubarak. Henceforth jihadists, in Egypt and beyond, who sympathise with al-Qaeda will find a more willing audience when they preach, as well as a supply of newly radicalised recruits. Likewise, each Islamist challenge will strengthen those in the army arguing for further suppression.

Go back to your barracks
If the generals want a stable Egypt, in which they command the loyalty of ordinary Egyptians, they should therefore draw back from the brink. Given their treatment at the hands of the army, it is hard to imagine the Brothers agreeing now to take part in a new political circus. But General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, the power behind the throne, and his interim president, Adly Mansour, can create the conditions for a functioning economy and an inclusive politics. To do so they must set a timetable for parliamentary and presidential elections. The committee they have entrusted with amending the constitution should be widened to include more Islamists. And other Islamist parties, if the Brothers refuse to participate, should be wooed into playing their part in politicseventually, if not now.

The world must also act. This newspaper warned Western leaders that their lack of response to the July shootings would cause trouble; it has. It should not repeat the same mistake today. America should cancel joint military exercises due in September and withhold its next tranche of military aid (already disbursed for the current year) until a civilian government has been elected and takes office. Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries should not write the generals a blank cheque just because they share a dislike of the Brothers.

No one could ever have thought that reinventing Egypt was going to be easy. It has never had a proper democracy. Much of its populace is illiterate. Most of its people live in poverty. And the question of how to accommodate Islam has everywhere proved vexed. But the generals should stop and think: in modern history such immense obstacles have never been overcome by violence.

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## kalu_miah

Egypt: disaster on Europe's doorstep | Editorial | Comment is free | The Guardian

*Egypt: disaster on Europe's doorstep*
Attempts to dismantle the Muslim Brotherhood are met by a force that shows the military they do not have control of Egypt

Editorial
The Guardian, Friday 16 August 2013 15.47 EDT

Egypt had less than two days to recover from the shock of the worst bloodshed in its modern history  at least 640 dead and 4,000 injured  when the whole deadly cycle started again on Friday: mass arrests during the night, mass demonstrations on a nationwide scale, heavy gunfire ringing out in the heart of Cairo and the first reports of scores of deaths. The abyss facing Egypt under the current military government is huge. If the government carries out its ambition to dismantle the Muslim Brotherhood and destroy it as a political force, it will be doing something more ambitious than the dictator Hosni Mubarak attempted. But in the process it may also shatter Egypt. The sheer size of the mass demonstrations on Friday are a sign that the military regime cannot hold the country on their own, and the anti-coup forces' ability to mount such sustained defiance  and do so repeatedly, in the face of live fire  is an indication of what Egypt's new military rulers are up against.

The crackdown has nevertheless been fuelled by the support from a significant section of the population, some of whom set up roadblocks in Cairo to stop marchers from entering the centre of the city. But claims from the supporters of the military government to be the authentic, and exclusive, voice of the Egyptian people should be treated sceptically. *Before the polarisation of Egyptian society goes deeper, it is worth restating a few basic hopes. The first is that the shock generated by the deaths of fellow Egyptians will eventually bring people together. It is one thing to oppose an Islamic movement and fight  at the polls  the cause of a pluralistic, multifaith, democratic Egypt. It is quite another to applaud their deaths and justify their massacre.

So far only the Salafist al-Nour party, the liberal April 6 group and the far left revolutionary socialists have spoken against the killings. Most other factions call the Brotherhood a terrorist threat and support the government action. But the cracks are growing. Khaled Dawoud, the spokesman of the National Salvation Front, who supported the coup, resigned on Friday, tweeting that he could not continue with political parties who refused to condemn the shootings. If the ranks of the demonstrators are being swollen by prominent liberals such as the youth leader Abdul Rahman Fares and the secular poet Abdul Rahman Yousef, then a split between secular revolutionaries and the Brotherhood that goes right the way back to the start of the revolution in 2011 could be in the process of being repaired. This could be a way forward. The forces that combined to oust one military dictatorship will have to find a way of replacing a second and even more brutal one.

The second hope is that the anti-coup protest remains focused on the coup. This is not certain at present. At least 12 Coptic churches have been torched and over 20 attacked. The Brotherhood has condemned the attacks, saying that the fact that the Coptic church applauded the coup is no justification for sectarian attacks on Christian worshippers. They should go further and provide physical protection for them, especially if the police stand by and do nothing. Sectarianism is as much an enemy of an anti-coup movement as retaliatory violence is.

The international community is starting to grasp the dimensions of what is unfolding. Europe is on Egypt's doorstep and if it descends into civil conflict, as it still might, the displaced will travel north across the sea if they can. The EU foreign policy representative Baroness Ashton, who met with President Mohamed Morsi and called for utmost restraint, should continue with her mission. Diplomatic pressure from Europe is all the more important as Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah declared his support for what he termed Egypt's "fight against terrorism". There are no easy options here, but only one condition will guarantee Egypt's stability  the return to full democratic legitimacy.*


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## islamrules

army shooting unarmed muslims

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## kalu_miah

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/17/world/middleeast/egypt.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

*New Bloodshed in Egypt as Islamists Defy Threat of Force*

CAIRO &#8212; Dozens of people were reportedly killed in renewed clashes on Friday as thousands of followers of the embattled Muslim Brotherhood took to the streets of Cairo and other cities, facing police officers authorized to use lethal force if threatened.

As the Islamist Brotherhood sought to regain momentum after a crushing crackdown by security forces on Wednesday in which almost 640 people were killed, witnesses spoke of gunfire whistling over a main overpass in Cairo and at a downtown square as clashes erupted and police officers lobbed tear gas canisters. Reports of a rising death toll continued throughout the day, with up to 50 dead, said a Reuters report that quoted security officials. About 30 bodies were laid out in a mosque in Ramses Square, which was being used as a makeshift field hospital as the injured were brought in from clashes that included gunfire nearby.

Fatalities were also reported from protests in other parts of Cairo and in the city of Ismailia near the Suez Canal, and fighting erupted in Fayoum and Alexandria. In some of the urban battles, it was not immediately clear who was fighting, as gunmen in civilian clothes opened fire.

Under military lockdown after the authorities declared a state of emergency, Cairo and other cities had been bracing for more violence after Friday Prayer, which has been a central trigger for protest since the wave of turmoil known as the Arab Spring swept through the Arab world beginning in early 2011.

In response to the call for what the Brotherhood called a &#8220;Friday of rage,&#8221; thousands of supporters of the deposed president, Mohamed Morsi, marched from northeast Cairo after the noon prayer, witnesses said, defying a show of strength from the military as they headed toward Ramses Square downtown. For its part, the army and security forces sealed off streets and positioned armored vehicles in Tahrir Square, once the crucible of broad revolt but now a stronghold of Morsi opponents.

Some of the violence had ebbed by nightfall and a curfew came into effect, but a spokesman for the Muslim Brotherhood, Gehad el-Haddad, said in a Twitter message that the day marked the first of what would be daily rallies across Egypt.

The outcome of the growing confrontation between secular and Islamist forces in Egypt &#8212; a contest that could shape the country and the region for years to come &#8212; seemed cloaked in uncertainty. &#8220;After the blows and arrests and killings that we are facing, emotions are too high to be guided by anyone,&#8221; Mr. Haddad said, according to Reuters.

The clash of powerful forces has alarmed many outsiders stunned by the ferocity of the crackdown and fearful of the potential regional repercussions. On Friday, news reports from Paris said President François Hollande consulted Britain and Germany about the crisis, but it was not immediately clear how the situation could be swayed by outsiders&#8217; diplomacy.

On Thursday, some European officials called for a suspension of aid by the European Union, and at least one member state, Denmark, cut off support. The British and French summoned the Egyptian ambassadors in their countries to condemnthe violence. In Ankara, Turkey, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, an ideological ally of Mr. Morsi&#8217;s, called for an early meeting of the United Nations Security Council to discuss what he called a &#8220;massacre.&#8221;

The Brotherhood, for decades the repository of Islamist sentiment, said it wanted millions to march on Friday to display &#8220;the pain and sorrow over the loss of our martyrs.&#8221; In a statement, the Brotherhood said the actions of the military-backed interim government against Mr. Morsi&#8217;s supporters had &#8220;increased our determination to end them.&#8221;

With their leaders jailed or silent, however, some Islamists reeled in shock at the killings, which began on Wednesday when security forces razed two protest camps where Mr. Morsi&#8217;s supporters had been staging sit-ins since his ouster six weeks ago. By Thursday night, health officials had counted 638 dead and nearly 4,000 injured, but the final toll was expected to rise further, in the worst mass killing in Egypt&#8217;s modern history.

The outcome of the internal Islamist debate may now be the most critical variable in deciding the next phase of the crisis. The military-backed government has made clear its determination to demonize and repress the Islamists with a ruthlessness exceeding even that of Gamal Abdel Nasser, the autocrat who first outlawed the Muslim Brotherhood six decades ago.

How the Islamists respond will inevitably reshape their movement and Egypt. Will they resume the accommodationist tactics of the Muslim Brotherhood under President Hosni Mubarak, escalate their street protests despite continued casualties, or turn to armed insurgency, as some members did in the 1990s?

President Obama, interrupting a weeklong vacation to address the bloodshed, stopped short of suspending the $1.3 billion in annual American military aid to Egypt but canceled joint military exercises scheduled to take place in a few months.

Instead of &#8220;reconciliation&#8221; after the military takeover, he said, &#8220;we&#8217;ve seen a more dangerous path taken through arbitrary arrests, a broad crackdown on Mr. Morsi&#8217;s associations and supporters, and now tragically the violence that&#8217;s taken the lives of hundreds of people and wounded thousands more.&#8221; Mr. Obama added, &#8220;Our traditional cooperation cannot continue as usual when civilians are being killed in the streets and rights are being rolled back.&#8221;

Soon after the president&#8217;s speech, the State Department issued an advisory warning American citizens living in Egypt to leave because of the unrest. On Friday, European governments warned their citizens not to travel to Red Sea resorts, and tour operators responded by canceling trips to Egypt, Reuters reported.

The Cairo government accused Mr. Obama of failing to grasp the nature of the &#8220;terrorist acts&#8221; it said Egypt was facing.

A statement issued by the office of the interim president, Adli Mansour, said Mr. Obama&#8217;s remarks &#8220;would strengthen the violent armed groups and encourage them in their methods inimical to stability and the democratic transition.&#8221;

Egyptian Islamists had also lashed out across the country on Thursday.

*On Thursday, after a string of attacks on Coptic Christian churches and businesses, at least one more church was set on fire, in Fayoum. In Cairo, some Islamists contended that the Coptic pope, Tawadros II, had appeared to endorse the crackdown, and they portrayed attacks on churches around the country as a counterattack. &#8220;When Pope Tawadros comes out after a massacre to thank the military and the police, then don&#8217;t accuse me of sectarianism,&#8221; said Mamdouh Hamdi, 35, an accountant.

The ultraconservative Nour Party, the liberal April 6 group and the far-left Revolutionary Socialists spoke out against the killings. But most other political factions denounced the Islamists as a terrorist threat and applauded the government action.

Veterans of Gamaa al-Islamiya, the ultraconservative Islamist group that waged a terrorist campaign in Egypt two decades ago and later renounced violence, said that since the military takeover they had been warning angry jihadists to shun their group&#8217;s former tactics.

&#8220;Because of our experience and the position that we have against the use of violence, we persuaded them that Egypt can&#8217;t stand fighting, that an armed conflict is a loss to everybody,&#8221; said Ammar Omar Abdel Rahman, a leader of Gamaa al-Islamiya and the son of the blind sheik convicted of terrorism in the United States 20 year ago.

But Wednesday&#8217;s crackdown had made that argument much harder to win, Mr. Abdel Rahman said. The security forces &#8220;are the aggressors,&#8221; he said. &#8220;Being a military doesn&#8217;t give you the right to kill and exterminate whoever you want.&#8221;*

David D. Kirkpatrick reported from Cairo, and Alan Cowell from London. Mayy El Sheikh and Kareem Fahim contributed reporting from Cairo, and Christine Hauser from New York.

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## darkinsky

muslim brotherhood should arm themselves now

if not, they will be the lambs for the slaughter


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## Solomon2

darkinsky said:


> muslim brotherhood should arm themselves now
> 
> if not, they will be the lambs for the slaughter


It never strikes Pakistanis as odd or praiseworthy that the Zionists in the room are the ones to talk about peace between Muslims, does it?


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## islamrules

kuffars besieging masjid al fath in Ramsis , we might be looking at the next shuhada

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## olcayto

To everyone, would you please stop calling everyone that supports the coup or is just against morsi a kuffar.

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## islamrules

this is by far the most heart breaking ever

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## -SINAN-

At the first days of this new massacre, we were seeing mostly heavily bearded guys, people who wore traditional clothes.

From these latest pics and videos, it's clearly can be seen that there is a vast variety in the protestors. I'm taking this analogy for increased support for protests.

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## hussain0216

olcayto said:


> To everyone, would you please stop calling everyone that supports the coup or is just against morsi a kuffar.



If it looks like a chicken
Walks like a chicken
Clucks like a chicken

Then it's a chicken

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## olcayto

hussain0216 said:


> If it looks like a chicken
> Walks like a chicken
> Clucks like a chicken
> 
> Then it's a chicken



Well no mate.

Muslims kill muslims all over the world. Egypt is not the first example.
&#304;f we would for once look at the mirror instead of pointing fingers to each other.
We would have been in a much better position.

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## Solomon2

Why the Brotherhood Failed

Barak Barfi




*Imagine a government dominated by paranoia, convinced of conspiracies around every corner.* That, in short, was the most defining aspect of the Muslim Brotherhood&#8217;s year in power in Egypt. Though the country&#8217;s first democratically elected government was overthrown in a military coup in July, the Brotherhood made its fair share of critical mistakes. It alienated the politicians essential to solving Egypt&#8217;s problems and declared war against the bureaucracy it needed to govern, all while the United States did little more than watch as its influence in the Arab world&#8217;s most important nation shrank to infinitesimal proportions.

The Brotherhood paranoia is not born of fantasy. For most of its eight decades, the group has been hounded by the central government. The Egyptian security services assassinated its founder, constantly incarcerated its leaders, and harassed its activists. Its years as an underground organization fostered a bunker mentality that views outsiders as threats to be neutralized. Once in office, the Brotherhood&#8217;s leaders were constantly obsessed that adversaries were plotting to bring it down. This explains President Mohamed Morsi&#8217;s Brotherhood-dominated cabinets, as well as his inability to build a coalition government at the very moment when Egypt&#8217;s problems required one.

The Brotherhood&#8217;s distrust of the secularists who propped up the regime of former President Hosni Mubarakis understandable, but it is more difficult to explain its alienation of the puritanical Salafist movement. These two Islamist organizations largely share the same goals, namely, making Egypt a more pious Muslim state. But during its year in power, the Brotherhood did everything possible to estrange the Salafist al-Nour party, which finished second in the 2011&#8211;12 parliamentary elections. Al-Nour supported the controversial constitution the Brotherhood rammed through Parliament. In exchange, the Salafists hoped to get the education and economic portfolios in Morsi&#8217;s Cabinet. Instead, they felt betrayed when they were offered the insignificant environment ministry. The final blow came in February, when Morsi dismissed senior al-Nour official Khalid Alam al-Din from his post as presidential adviser. Days later, leading Salafist Yasir Burhami attacked the Brotherhood, saying it was marginalizing and slandering al-Nour. Such enmity explains why the Salafists aligned with the secular forces to topple the Brotherhood in the days leading up to the July 3rd coup.

The Brotherhood&#8217;s paranoia also led to purges of Mubarak supporters in a clumsy full-court press against the security services, the judiciary, and the intellectual establishment. It made more trouble for itself with the third especially. Egyptians revere the writers, directors, and actors who made Cairo the cultural mecca of the Arab world, and the Ministry of Culture was the last bastion of the Mubarak establishment that had not succumbed to the Islamist wave that has gripped Egypt since Anwar Sadat assumed power in 1970. Minister Farouk Hosny, a favorite of Mubarak&#8217;s wife Suzanne, had served in his post since 1987, longer than any other Cabinet official. Though best known for his May 2008 pledge to burn Israeli books, Hosny consistently angered Islamists. His ministry&#8217;s decision in 2000 to re-publish the Syrian novelist Hayder Hayder&#8217;s _Banquet for Seaweed_&#8212;a critique of Islam&#8212;sparked massive protests. He further enraged Islamists in November 2006, when he told the Egyptian daily _Al-Masry Al-Youm_ that &#8220;there was an age when our mothers went to university and worked without the veil. It is in that spirit that we grew up. So why this regression?&#8221; When the Brotherhood took power, it set its sights on this pillar of the Mubarak establishment. Not surprisingly, it did so overzealously. Although it replaced Hosny with a non-Brotherhood member, Ala&#8217;a Abd al-Aziz, Aziz swiftly fired the heads of the Cairo Opera House, Fine Arts Division, and General Egyptian Book Organization. The intellectual backlash that ensued, which included a popular sit-in at the ministry building, further eroded support for the new government.

President Morsi himself created his fair share of problems as well. He originally supported a proposed IMF loan in November 2012, but pressure from the Brotherhood&#8217;s highest body, the Guidance Bureau, forced him to backtrack, hurting his credibility. Though Morsi was often captive to his Brotherhood superiors, he nevertheless went rogue when it suited him. In November 2012 he signed a presidential decree granting himself sweeping powers unchallengeable by any court. Shortly thereafter, he delivered a speech viciously attacking his adversaries, signaling his unwillingness to tolerate any opposition. His aides later confided that Morsi&#8217;s statements were unscripted and that he had expunged the more conciliatory remarks in the prepared text.

The generals holding power in Egypt were probably willing to overlook the Brotherhood&#8217;s missteps. Nor did the Brotherhood&#8217;s penchant for infusing religion into politics overly perturb Defense Minister Abdul-Fattah el-Sisi. A scion of a conservative Muslim family, Sisi&#8217;s his uncle was a member of the Brotherhood and his wife wears a veil. All he and the other military brass wanted was enough stability to lift the country out of its economic and social doldrums. The Brotherhood&#8217;s bumbling, however, seemed to be making that impossible. The final straw appears to have been Morsi&#8217;s participation at a June 15th event organized by Islamist factions in support of the Syrian revolution. Among the speakers who irked the no-fuss generals was the firebrand Safwat Hijazi. His claim of sending weapons to Syrian rebels for over a year rang the alarm bells. The generals were enraged that Morsi sat silent as speaker after speaker whipped the crowd into a jingoistic frenzy as it chanted &#8220;To Jerusalem, we are going!&#8221;

*A*s the military plotted its coup, senior American officials warned them in several conversations that Washington would not support it. The generals listened politely but were in no mood to heed their cautionary counsel, favoring the will of the street over American diktats.

In truth, Washington&#8217;s influence in Egypt has always been overstated. Cairo has traditionally marched to its own drum, only taking note of Washington&#8217;s advice when it dovetailed with its own interests. Mubarak&#8217;s willingness to skirmish with Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi in the 1980s stemmed from personal animosity rather than realpolitik. In the 1990s, when the international community isolated Qaddafi in an effort to get him to give up two Lockerbie bombing suspects, Mubarak was one of the few Arab leaders willing to meet with him. Egypt is also believed to have conspired with Libya to kidnap prominent Libyan dissident Mansour al-Kikhia in Cairo in 1993 and render him to Tripoli. Remittances by Egyptian workers in Libya were far more important than the need to placate Washington.

America&#8217;s clout in Egypt has been little understood by the Washington elite especially. The approximately $72.2 billion in aid the United States has doled out to Egypt since 1973 was never really meant to transform the country into an American satellite. Instead, the annual installments were ransoms paid to ensure Egypt would not participate in an Arab-Israeli war and to secure intelligence cooperation. Just as importantly, aid was a signal to other Arab Soviet allies that only Washington could deliver their lands occupied by Israel and the funds needed to build their economies. But with the demise of the rejectionist states, this_ raison d&#8217;être_ has vanished. Iraq&#8217;s Saddam Hussein and Libya&#8217;s Qaddafi are dead. The Palestine Liberation Organization mended fences with Washington and Syria is adrift in a civil war its leaders will never recover from.

The collapse of the Mubarak regime has similarly devastated security collaboration. American intelligence services would never dare run agents in a country where Mubarak&#8217;s consigliere and spy chief Omar Suleiman laid his treasure chest open before them.

As the Brotherhood desperately tries to patch up relations with an alienated society and Washington quixotically seeks to reassert an influence it barely had before, both are trying to figure out what went wrong. And as they do, the Arab world&#8217;s most important nation sinks further into an abyss that portends more turmoil for a region that has known nothing but misfortune.

_Barak Barfi is a research fellow at the New America Foundation. He recently returned from Egypt, where he spent time with Muslim Brotherhood supporters at the Raba&#8217;a al-Adawiyya mosque in Cairo._


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## revojam

hussain0216 said:


> If it looks like a chicken
> Walks like a chicken
> Clucks like a chicken
> 
> Then it's a chicken




Bro don't mind him he is saying those things because he is coup supporter kuffar too while secretly enjoying the death of ummah


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## islamrules

this is a woman that had a baby inside her, they tried to pull him alive n that's what they found out 









https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd....0x480/994575_603840516333742_2088945016_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd....x480/1174522_603828583001602_2038426678_n.jpg

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## islamrules



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## islamrules

the Israeli tenth channel confirms : the Egyptian generals said to their jewish conterparts that *they intend to go on with the battle on the MB until the end *

Official FB acount of the police proudly addmiting killing people

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## islamrules

RIP humanity

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## Jihad_



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## islamrules

Egyptian presidency : 
1 MB is a terrorist group 
2 Arresting all MBs and prosecuting them in front of military courts
3 Seizure of all their assets

Live feedback from dath masjid besieged

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## iranigirl2

At this point this is not even about Islam or MB.

It's about democracy.

MB was elected through a democratic process.

Probably one of the most open and fair election held in the entire Middle east and North Africa region.


If Egyptians and the Army didn't like him, they should've waited for the next election to throw MB out of office.


This is how you build a democratic nation.


Foreign and regional powers are hostile to democracy. ( because of their own interests)


I like to point out they did the same thing in Iran in 1953.

America and Britain planned a coup and overthrew our Prime minister and installed the Shah.

I personally think Shah was much more useful leader to Iran.

But the point here is that , they messed up the democratic process.

They should hold elections again in Egypt and if MB wins then they have to let MB in to office, if they don't win then MB needs to go away or wait for the next election.

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## Brutas

hussain0216 said:


> There are 1.7 billion Muslims with every year hundreds of millions of more muslims being added through birth or conversion
> 
> Reality is all this chaos due to necessary change is not even a tiny scratch in our numbers


Seems like many are indifferent to this horrific carnage & bloodbath(Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Egypt), even though it has been going on for many years now ! Change doesn't have to come through the barrel of a gun. There are civilized way to bring change without mass killings of each other! 

Civilized Muslim nations(Turks, Iranians, Kurds, Bosnians...list goes on) don't bring change that way, barbarian savages do !


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## islamrules

iranigirl2 said:


> They should hold elections again in Egypt and if MB wins then they have to let MB in to office, if they don't win then MB needs to go away or wait for the next election.



Sisi plays his ultimatum against the MB, he doesn't want them in Egypt, period.

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## Doritos11

Brutas said:


> Seems like many are indifferent to this horrific carnage & bloodbath(Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Egypt), even though it has been going on for many years now ! Change doesn't have to come through the barrel of a gun. There are civilized way to bring change without mass killings of each other!
> 
> Civilized Muslim nations(Turks, Iranians, Kurds, Bosnians...list goes on) don't bring change that way, barbarian savages do !



That&#8217;s funny, you put Turks and Kurds in the "civilized" category while how have they been solving problems the last few decades ? bloodbath.
Your entire comment means nothing.

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## islamrules

the problem Sisi's gang have databases with pretty much all MBs n potential n suspected MBs , they go directly knock on doors soon they will have them all jailed ... may Allah grant them patience

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## babajees

Shame on so called muslims everywhere!! Now Egypt's Zionist Army killing muslims and the world is silent!

Protestors shot in stomach while their hands raised: ********.com - Protester shot in stomach after raising hands in the air

Another horrible video of innocent people being killed by American allied army: Egypt's most terrible bloodshed video came to light. - Video Dailymotion

Shame on Saudia criminal kings: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd....80x480/954806_563837226997646_514771469_n.jpg

Burning Mosque (many ppl burnt): https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151782987528739&set=vb.196209623864490&type=2&theater

#SisitheArabHitler vs Young girl shot dead: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=341120279356218&set=vb.125302040954466&type=2&theater

--

I really hope Alqaeda comes to Egypt now and Fks up the army!


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## islamrules

Turkey mourns the egyptian shuhada while Egyptian TV displays songs

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## Jihad_

&#8220;I think that the whole world should support Sisi&#8221; 

Ehud Barak

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## Jihad_

General Sisi kills his own family



> General Fatteh al-Sisi was denounced by a member of his own family following the death of another relative in the massacre at Rabaa al Adawiya. Hazem Lutfi Abdel Aziz Abdel Rahman al-Sisi, appeared in the video below to denounce General Sisi following the death of his brother, Khalid Lutfi al-Sisi. Khalid, a 46 year old engineer, was killed during the army and security forces raid on the anti-coup sit-ins at Adawiya on Wednesday.
> 
> Hazem said that he disowned General Sisi as a member of his family and called him a traitor and a killer. He went on to say that he was sure that General Sisi would be punished for his actions, even if justice was a long time coming, as well as the Minister of Interior, Mohammed Ibrahim. He concluded by saying that he hoped God would give everyone patience and insisted that Egyptians would not be silent in the fight for their rights.



&#x202b;

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## Kompromat

Dr Shahid Masood &#8207;@Shahidmasooddr 1m
Egypt: Security Forces Entered inside the Alfateh Mosque! May Allah Protect the people inside.

Twitter

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## Jihad_

In Aug 2011, Assad assaulted Ar-Rifai mosque in Damascus & terrorized ppl inside. Today, Sisi is doing the same at Al_Fath mosque in Cairo.

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## iranigirl2

islamrules said:


> Sisi plays his ultimatum against the MB, he doesn't want them in Egypt, period.



I agree, they want to eliminate the MB.


http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...s-cairo-were-calculated-provoke-some-say.html


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## islamrules

Wednesday : Masjid Rabia attacked n burned 
Thursday : Masjid Al Iman attacked 
Friday : Masjid Al Fath attacked

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## Jihad_

*26 July 2013*

Egypt has been warned of the violence to come &#8211; by General Sisi himself



> It is not often that the international community gets ample notice and an invitation to stop atrocities before they begin. This is precisely what happened earlier this week in Egypt.
> 
> General Abdel Fatah al-Sisi, leader of the coup-that's-not-a-coup, *gave a speech that has to be read as paving the way for a bloody campaign of repression.*
> 
> It must be recalled that *Sisi's coup* has since been revealed in all its glory, a *spectacle meticulously choreographed and staged*, in production since at least last November.
> 
> Since the coup it has emerged that the leaders of the armed forces had been meeting regularly with key opposition figures in the months before; that leading Mubarak-appointees on the constitutional court were involved; that financing and logistical support for the "grassroots" movement against Mohamed Morsi came from the opposition's Naguib Sawiris; that the governments of the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia provided aid that promptly materialised upon the ouster of Morsi; that Mohamed ElBaradei, leader of the National Salvation Front, had sought the support of western governments; and that US secretary of defence Chuck Hagel was in contact with Sisi in the days leading up to the coup.
> 
> *We have also witnessed the miraculous disappearance overnight of fuel and electricity shortages, the equally miraculous return of law enforcement to the streets, and the emergence of key Mubarak regime figures, now representing roughly a third of the interim cabinet.*
> 
> It has also become clear that the key to the entire affair &#8211; the participation of "millions" in anti-Morsi protests &#8211; is at best an exaggeration and at worst a piece of cinematic production involving the collaboration of an Egyptian movie director and military aerial photography. In contrast to the 18 days it took the army to step in in 2011, Sisi in this case issued an ultimatum on the first day of protests and followed through with the coup three days later.
> 
> The upshot of all of this is that when Sisi calls on all Egyptians to rally "in every public square", and when the general characterises these forthcoming rallies as a "mandate" to fight "violence and terrorism" this has to be seen as paving the way for more military action.
> 
> The end game is not very difficult to see. Sisi has already given the world a taste of what he is willing to do when officers opened fire on peaceful protesters during morning prayers. There were at least 50 dead on the spot, possibly as many as a 100 in total.
> 
> The violence has continued sporadically since then. And while most news outlets conservatively label the violence as "clashes" between anti-Morsi and pro-Morsi factions, the inescapable facts are that all the deaths have been among those protesting the coup and calling for the return of Egypt's hijacked democracy and that many of these deaths have come at the hands of non-uniformed state agents.
> 
> So when the general invokes the codewords of confronting "violence and terrorism" reasonable people should expect violence. And it is violence that is being marketed primarily to a western audience using familiar catchphrases and explicitly urging Sisi's supporters to "show the world" that the military and the police are "authorised" to do just that.
> 
> The people who have rallied to the cause of restoring Egypt's democracy have held a sit-in in Rabaa al-Adawiya, one of Cairo's largest squares, away from Tahrir Square, which was the centre of anti-Morsi rallies. They have largely avoided Tahrir in order to avoid precipitating any confrontation between civilians. They have carefully organised their marches to avoid instigating violence. And they have been consistently the victims, not perpetrators, of violence.
> 
> *By recklessly calling on "Egyptians" to protest in "all the public squares" the general is inviting a civil war.* If he gets his civil war he will use the clashes as the *pretext to widen the campaign of violent repression against anyone that opposes the coup.* If the people do not oblige, *media outlets &#8211; fully under military control since the 3 July coup* &#8211; have already begun to accuse the Muslim Brotherhood of responsibility for every act of violence from Sinai to Cairo. And *to "confront terrorism" the general will authorise deadly force against the people of Egypt.*
> 
> *We have heard this kind of rhetoric before. Muammar Gaddafi used it in Libya. Bashar al-Assad used it in Syria.* Unlike those two regimes, this general is directing his energies at a western audience. Unlike Assad and Gaddafi, this new dictator cares about visits from the US and the EU, cares about joint military exercises with the American army, and cares about the resumption of exports of F-16s.
> 
> Unlike Libya and Syria, in Egypt there is still time to act. *But for the Egyptian people, that time is running out.*

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## islamrules

First Shahida in Fath masjid by tear gas

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## Jihad_

Egypt&#8217;s Coptic Church announces support for army, police



> Egypt&#8217;s Orthodox Coptic Church announced on Friday its support for the military and security forces in their fight against what it called &#8220;groups of armed violence.&#8221;
> 
> &#8220;The Egyptian Coptic Church is following the unfortunate developments on the ground of our country Egypt and emphasizes its strong stance with the Egyptian police, armed forces and other organizations of the Egyptian people in the face of groups of armed violence and black terrorism,&#8221; the church said in a statement.
> 
> &#8220;While we appreciate the sincere and friendly position that understands the nature of the developments, we strongly deplore the media fallacies that are prevalent in Western countries,&#8221; the statement added.
> 
> The Coptic Church called on the West to &#8220;read objectively the facts of events, and not give international and political cover to these terrorist and bloody groups.&#8221;

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## islamrules

From the masjid of rasoul allah salla allahu alaihi wa sallam on Egypt's events 






besieging the house of Allah n tear gasing those inside !!!

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## BlueWarrior

islamrules said:


> hopefully but Sisi payed them a 50% raise just before this happens and reports say Sawires the coptic dog payed the police . so I don't think they will easly defect .


looks like it's true. Found this on an English page with majority Arab users. Translate for short explanation?


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## Syrian Lion

someone used a picture of erDOGan claiming he is crying over the Egyptian crisis... here is the original picture...

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## Syrian Lion

*"This article is up to date and includes all massacres against Christians starting from Muslim Brotherhood ruled Egypt till the 15th of August 2013. Just remember that when Brotherhood and Mohammed Morsi were ruling Egypt and specifically them and their Islamist extremists Militias were massacring Christians, your Governments never cared to even condemn any massacres, whether against Christians or the whole Egyptian Community."​*
Muslim Brotherhood Massacres Against Christians In Egypt | Eman Nabih

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## iranigirl2

Saudi Arabia and Qatar, two cornerstones of US foreign policy :Eric Draitser - YouTube

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## Syrian Lion

*This reminds of the so called peaceful protests in Syria... this is the peaceful MB protests in Egypt!
​*

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## iranigirl2

US condemns Egypt bloodshed, but maintains $1.3bn military aid - YouTube


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## -SINAN-

BlueWarrior said:


> Very kind, do you support him with cutting relationship with Egypt and who is that in your avator?



You might be confused, he is not cutting relationship, he warned and criticized. Could be more coming through.

El Turco's avatar: Sedat Peker, A Turkish mafia, criminal, ultra-nationalist etc.. Sedat Peker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Visit Turkish section too, we will be delightful to hear a Albanian friends thoughts .

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## BaybarsHan

Syrian Lion said:


> *This reminds of the so called peaceful protests in Syria... this is the peaceful MB protests in Egypt!
> ​*



its only kafir nusayri asad's + bastard pharao sisi's propaganda, go to hell.

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## haman10

Jihad_ said:


> I think that the whole world should support Sisi
> 
> Ehud Barak



maybe...
but one thing for sure: he would not hate MB
he actually likes them 2


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## Ceylal

emergency state in Egypt

Mobarek, Doc,pls clear my doubts , Am I still in power?







Egypt blood bath


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## BlueWarrior

Ceylal said:


>


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## agentny17

BlueWarrior said:


> looks like it's true. Found this on an English page with majority Arab users. Translate for short explanation?


Although we don't need more proof to recognize your stupidity, but this is too much!! He is talking about joining the protesters in Tahrir square during January, 25th revolution!! I understand why Islamists would post something like that, its because all their supporters are as stupid as you and they are so easy to fool.

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## BlueWarrior

agentny17 said:


> Although we don't need more proof to recognize your stupidity, but this is too much!! He is talking about joining the protesters in Tahrir square during January, 25th revolution!! I understand why Islamists would post something like that, its because all their supporters are as stupid as you and they are so easy to fool.


thank you for the explanation, may I ask if you support the bloodshed or not? you know they are trying to push more killing on people.
Gunfire heard as Egypt troops move to end Cairo mosque siege - Telegraph

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## islamrules

@Syrian Lion , those are Sisi's gangs , when muslims declare armed jihad , u will know it

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## monitor

Syrian Lion said:


> *This reminds of the so called peaceful protests in Syria... this is the peaceful MB protests in Egypt!
> ​*




what is the proof they are mB . is it impossible for the military regime to infiltrate some of their agent inside mb to justify their action . even if the are mb this small number of gunman cannot be a excuse for the massacre committed by the regime .


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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> @Syrian Lion , those are Sisi's gangs , when muslims declare armed jihad , u will know it



So the it turns out the picture you posted of a unborn baby that was shot in its mothers womb was from Iraq 2005. Other photos you have also posted were from Syria.

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## islamrules

Frogman said:


> So the it turns out the picture you posted of a unborn baby that was shot in its mothers womb was from Iraq 2005. Other photos you have also posted were from Syria.



I might have mistakenly posted that pic from Iraq or Syria but I did not authorize the killing of 3000 muslims, how could u equate between the two ? but u would anything to confort ur dead conscience don't u ?!!

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## islamrules



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## agentny17

BlueWarrior said:


> thank you for the explanation, may I ask if you support the bloodshed or not? you know they are trying to push more killing on people.
> Gunfire heard as Egypt troops move to end Cairo mosque siege - Telegraph


I call for the Muslim Brotherhood to respect the law, and stop inciting violence, attacking security officers, and civilians, attacking and burning churches, and other government institutions. If they don't, i expect the government to protect me and the institutions i established with me taxes money.
Troops have been surrounding the mosque for more than 12 hours now because there are armed people inside and there are Muslim Brotherhood leaders wanted by law. They are using the people inside the mosque as human shields!! Less than half an hour ago gun shots were fired toward security forces from inside the mosque, and that is when security forces had to move in to end the whole thing

This video shows how the Muslim Brotherhood started shooting at securty forces around the mosque


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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> I might have mistakenly posted that pic from Iraq or Syria but I did not authorize the killing of 3000 muslims, how could u equate between the two ? but u would anything to confort ur dead conscience don't u ?!!



Mistakenly posted horrific images of death and children and then blamed it on the security forces. 

This isn't about Muslim. Muslims have been killing each other for centuries and this is no different. The death toll stands at somewhere near 600. Before you accuse me of having a dead conscience you must first look at your own. You would support the killing of thousands because they hold the opposite view or are part of a particular state institution. You know what my views are on the use of force. 

I'm staying away from this thread as well as other Egypt threads until the situation dies down. Have fun flooding the thread.
One thing of note, its not the Egyptians who are with the MB but those from distant lands who have no connection to Egypt whatsoever and wont be affected if it falls.

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## doublemaster

agentny17 said:


> I call for the Muslim Brotherhood to respect the law, and stop inciting violence, attacking security officers, and civilians, attacking and burning churches, and other government institutions. If they don't, i expect the government to protect me and the institutions i established with me taxes money.
> Troops have been surrounding the mosque for more than 12 hours now because there are armed people inside and there are Muslim Brotherhood leaders wanted by law. They are using the people inside the mosque as human shields!! Less than half an hour ago gun shots were fired toward security forces from inside the mosque, and that is when security forces had to move in to end the whole thing
> 
> This video shows how the Muslim Brotherhood started shooting at securty forces around the mosque



Respect Law...Isnt that funny? Which law? which Sisi already suspended? Sisi took a oath to protect consitution...Which he topled...where was the law?

Why is that Anti-coup protesters take out weapon only when security forces started siege? Why Army started with killing journalists who were capturing video?

Isnt it only you paid tax? Anti-coup protesters are also paid tax...But your army clearly told they wouldnt protect them...
I watched events live...Most of the time civialians were present along side of army rioting..against protesters...Isnt that responsibility or army or police to arrest them?

Thre is no law or constitution.....senseless mindless brutal dictators leading country now...

Anti-coup should do everything possible to stop this...They can do whatever they want....I dont think it would be wrong...

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## hussain0216

agentny17 said:


> I call for the Muslim Brotherhood to respect the law, and stop inciting violence, attacking security officers, and civilians, attacking and burning churches, and other government institutions. If they don't, i expect the government to protect me and the institutions i established with me taxes money.
> Troops have been surrounding the mosque for more than 12 hours now because there are armed people inside and there are Muslim Brotherhood leaders wanted by law. They are using the people inside the mosque as human shields!! Less than half an hour ago gun shots were fired toward security forces from inside the mosque, and that is when security forces had to move in to end the whole thing
> 
> This video shows how the Muslim Brotherhood started shooting at securty forces around the mosque



You ask the brotherhood to respect the law????????????? Are you retarded or something


They were the elected government of Egypt, the military and secular liberals I.e You 

You illegally overthrew a elected government, imprisoned your president on fake charges

Rounded up leaders

Killed thousands through your brutality


Rather than wait for free and fair elections you have been beyond moronic and pushed your nation into the mud




This isn't the M.Bs fault this is your fault the fault of your military


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## doublemaster

Frogman said:


> Mistakenly posted horrific images of death and children and then blamed it on the security forces.
> 
> This isn't about Muslim. Muslims have been killing each other for centuries and this is no different. The death toll stands at somewhere near 600. Before you accuse me of having a dead conscience you must first look at your own. You would support the killing of thousands because they hold the opposite view or are part of a particular state institution. You know what my views are on the use of force.
> 
> I'm staying away from this thread as well as other Egypt threads until the situation dies down. Have fun flooding the thread.
> One thing of note,* its not the Egyptians who are with the MB but those from distant lands who have no connection to Egypt* whatsoever and wont be affected if it falls.



Correct...Thats why they won election....
I wouldnt care even if MB was toppled...But natually who should lead the country next? People who got least vote? Mubarak Era regime? 

Topling government lead to this situation...THey are the only one should be blamed.


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## Rafi

Even though I am a Shia Muslim and have no truck with Islamists of any hue or colour, from what I have seen from Independent journalists (western) ones, the violence has been simply horrific, the vast majority from the Egyptian security forces. 

This is going to taint the name and honour of the forces for decades to come, and you can't simply crush a group that has support in at least a quarter of society.


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## islamrules

Egyptian Police : who's for using live fire against the "MB violence"

20,848 likes 
Salma Ask : I am against live bullets bomb them with poisonous gas and rockets !!

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## -SINAN-

Syrian Lion said:


> someone used a picture of erDOGan claiming he is crying over the Egyptian crisis... here is the original picture...



Yeap, those are from Erdogan's mother's funeral...

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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> Egyptian Police : who's for using live fire against the "MB violence"
> 
> 20,848 likes
> Salma Ask : I am against live bullets bomb them with poisonous gas and rockets !!




Well done. A non-official Fb page. No rockets or "poisonous" gas have been used by the security forces. You keep on being mistaken.


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## Yzd Khalifa

Egypt Clashes Update - YouTube

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## islamrules

@Frogman

don't make me repost the blown up heads


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## Yzd Khalifa



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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> @Frogman
> 
> don't make me repost the blown up heads



Exercise your morbid obsessions freely.

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## Jihad_

Pharao Sisi choose for this bloodbath. MB was ready for compromise.


West warned Egypt's Sisi to the end: don't do it



> Western allies warned Egypt's military leaders right up to the last minute against using force to crush protest sit-ins by supporters of the ousted Islamist president Mohamed Mursi, arguing they could ill afford the political and economic damage.
> 
> *"We had a political plan that was on the table, that had been accepted by the other side (the Muslim Brotherhood),"* said EU envoy Bernardino Leon, who co-led the mediation effort with U.S. Deputy Secretary of State William Burns.
> 
> "They could have taken this option. So all that has happened today was unnecessary," Leon told Reuters in a telephone interview. The last plea was conveyed to the Egyptian authorities on Tuesday, hours before the crackdown was unleashed.

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## islamrules



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## Mahmoud_EGY




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## islamrules



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## Jihad_

The New Axis of Evil: Saudi Arabia, Israel, and the Pentagon Are Backing Egypt's Bloody Crackdown



> By Pepe Escobar
> 
> I have argued that what has just happened in Egypt is a bloodbath that is not a bloodbath, conducted by a military junta responsible for a coup that is not a coup, under the guise of an Egyptian "war on terror". Yet this newspeak gambit - which easily could have been written at the White House - is just part of the picture.
> 
> Amid a thick fog of spin and competing agendas, a startling fact stands out. A poll only 10 days ago by the Egyptian Center for Media Studies and Public Opinion had already shown that 69%
> 
> were against the July 3 military coup orchestrated by the Pinochet-esque Abdel Fattah al-Sisi.
> 
> So the bloodbath that is not a bloodbath cannot possibly be considered legitimate - unless for a privileged coterie of Mubarakists (the so-called fulool), a bunch of corrupt oligarchs and the military-controlled Egyptian "deep state".
> 
> The Muslim Brotherhood (MB) government led by Mohamed Morsi may have been utterly incompetent - trying to rewrite the Egyptian constitution; inciting hardcore fundamentalists; and bowing in debasement in front of the International Monetary Fund. But it should not be forgotten this was coupled with permanent, all-out sabotage by the "deep state".
> 
> It's true that Egypt was - and remains - on the brink of total economic collapse; the bloodbath that is not a bloodbath only followed a change in the signature on the checks, from Qatar to Saudi Arabia (and the United Arab Emirates). As Spengler has demonstrated on this site (see Islam's civil war moves to Egypt, Asia Times Online, July 8, 2013), Egypt will remain a banana republic without the bananas and dependent on foreigners to eat any. The economic disaster won't go away - not to mention the MB's cosmic resentment.
> 
> The winners, as it stands, are the House of Saud/Israel/ Pentagon axis. How did they pull it off?
> 
> When in doubt, call Bandar
> In theory, Washington had been in (relative) control of both the MB and Sisi's Army. So on the surface this is a win-win situation. Essentially, Washington hawks are pro-Sisi's Army, while "liberal imperialists" are pro-MB; the perfect cover, because the MB is Islamic, indigenous, populist, economically neoliberal, it wants to work with the International Monetary Fund, and has not threatened Israel.
> 
> The MB was not exactly a problem for either Washington and Tel Aviv; after all ambitious ally Qatar was there as a go-between. Qatar's foreign policy, as everyone knows, boils down to cheerleading the MB everywhere.
> 
> So Morsi must have crossed a pretty serious red line. It could have been his call for Sunni Egyptians to join a jihad against the Bashar al-Assad government in Syria (although that's formally in tune with Barack Obama's "Assad must go" policy). Arguably, it was his push to install some sort of ****** paradise from the Sinai all the way to Gaza. The Sinai, for all practical purposes, is run by Israel. So that points to a green light for the coup from both the Pentagon and Tel Aviv.
> 
> Tel Aviv is totally at ease with Sisi's Army and the flush Saudi supporters of the military junta. The only thing that matters to Israel is that Sisi's Army will uphold the Camp David agreements. The MB, on the other hand, might entertain other ideas in the near future.
> 
> For the House of Saud, though, this was never a win-win situation. The MB in power in Egypt was anathema. In this fateful triangle - Washington, Tel Aviv and Riyadh - what remains to be established is who was been the most cunning in the wag the dog department.
> 
> That's where the Incredibly Disappearing Qatar act fits in. The rise and (sudden) fall of Qatar from the foreign policy limelight is strictly linked to the current leadership vacuum in the heart of the Pentagon's self-defined "arc of instability". Qatar was, at best, an extra in a blockbuster - considering the yo-yo drifts of the Obama administration and that Russia and China are just playing a waiting game.
> 
> Sheikh Hamad al-Thani, the emir who ended up deposing himself, clearly overreached not only in Syria but also in Iraq; he was financing not only MB outfits but also hardcore jihadis across the desert. There's no conclusive proof because no one in either Doha or Washington is talking, but the emir was certainly "invited" to depose himself. And not by accident the Syrian "rebel" racket was entirely taken over by the House of Saud, via the spectacularly resurfaced Bandar Bush, aka Prince Bandar bin Sultan.
> 
> So the winners once again were the Saudis - as the Obama administration was calculating that both the MB and the al-Qaeda nebulae would then fade into oblivion in Syria. That remains to be seen; it's possible that Egypt from now on may attract a lot of jihadis from Syria. Still, they would remain in MENA (Middle East-Northern Africa).
> 
> As for Sisi, he was clever enough to seize the "terror" theme and pre-emptively equate MB with al-Qaeda in Egypt, thus setting the scene for the bloodbath that is not a bloodbath. The bottom line is that a case can be made that the Obama administration has in fact subcontracted most of its Middle East policy to the House of Saud.
> 
> Pick your axis
> Only two days before the bloodbath that is not a bloodbath, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey was in Israel getting cozy with General Benny Gantz and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, discussing the proverbial "threats that could emanate out of the region - globally and to the homeland - and how we can continue to work together to make both of our countries more secure". It's unthinkable they did not discuss how they would profit from the imminent bloodbath that is not a bloodbath.
> 
> At the same time, Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon bombastically announced a new "axis of evil"; Iran, Syria and Lebanon. That implies Tehran, Damascus and, significantly, Beirut as a whole (not only the predominantly Shi'ite southern suburbs). Ya'alon explicitly told Dempsey it was "forbidden" for them to win the civil war in Syria.
> 
> Considering that the Central Intelligence Agency itself has deemed the civil war in Syria as a "top threat" to US national security in case al-Qaeda-style outfits and copycats take over in an eventual post-Assad situation; and at the same time Washington is extremely reluctant to stop "leading from behind", a case can be made that Israel may be entertaining another invasion of Lebanon. An always alert Sheikh Nasrallah, Hezbollah's secretary-general, has already been talking about the possibility.
> 
> Then Dempsey went to Jordan - which already holds around 1,000 US troops, F-16s with crews, and an array of Patriot missiles. The spin is that the Pentagon is helping Amman with "border control techniques" as in one of those favorite Pentagon acronyms, ISR ("intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance").
> 
> That's just spin. Most of all Dempsey went to survey the progress of the recent batch of anti-tank missiles, bought by - who else - the Saudis and supplied by the CIA, via Jordan, to (in theory) selected "good rebels" in southern Syria. Those "rebels", by the way, were trained by US Special Forces inside Jordan. Obviously Damascus will be preparing a counterpunch to this offensive by the American/Saudi/Jordanian axis.
> 
> Pick your evil
> There's hardly any "American credibility" left in the Middle East - apart from puppet entities like Jordan and selected elites in the feudal Gulf, that "democratic" realm of corruption, mercenaries and imported proletariats treated like cattle.
> 
> It hardly helps that US Secretary of State John Kerry has recommended Robert Ford, the former US ambassador to Syria, as the next US ambassador to Egypt.
> 
> Perception is everything. Informed opinion all across the Middle East immediately identifies Ford as a creepy death squad facilitator. His CV prior to Syria - where he legitimized the "rebels" - is matchless; sidekick to sinister John Negroponte promoting the "Salvador Option" in Iraq in 2004. The "Salvador Option" is code for US-sponsored death squads, a tactic first applied in El Salvador (by Negroponte) in the 1980s (causing at least 75,000 deaths) but with deep origins in Latin America in the late 1960s throughout the 1970s.
> 
> Sisi will keep playing his game according to his own master plan - bolstering the narrative myth that the Egyptian army defends the nation and its institutions when in fact defending its immense socio-economic privileges. Forget about civilian oversight. And forget about any possible independent political party - or movement - in Egypt.
> 
> As for Washington, MB or "deep state", even a civil war in Egypt - Arabs killing Arabs, divide and rule ad infinitum - that's fine, as long as there is no threat to Israel.
> 
> With Israel possibly mulling another invasion of Lebanon; the Kerry "peace process" an excuse for more settlements in Palestine; Bandar Bush back practicing the dark arts; the pre-empting of any possible solution to the Iranian nuclear dossier; Egypt in civil war; Syria and also Iraq bleeding to death, what's left is the certified proliferation of all kinds of axes, and all kinds of evil.

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## VelocuR

*U.S., allies were near a deal for peaceful end to Egypt crisis*








By Anne Gearan and Colum Lynch, Published: August 16 E-mail the writers

Two weeks before the bloody crackdown in Cairo, the Obama administration, working with European and Persian Gulf allies, believed it was close to a deal to have Islamist supporters of ousted president Mohamed Morsi disband street encampments in return for a pledge of nonviolence from Egypt&#8217;s interim authorities.

But the military-backed government rejected the deal and ordered its security forces to break up the protests, a decision that has resulted in hundreds of deaths and street clashes that continued Friday in the capital.

The agreement nearly brokered two weeks ago sought statements of restraint from both sides and an inquiry into competing claims of violence and mistreatment, said Bernardino León, the European Union&#8217;s envoy for Egypt. *That was supposed to be a prelude to talks between the Muslim Brotherhood and the government.*

*Former Egyptian vice president Mohamed ElBaradei appeared to back the deal but could not convince Gen. Abdel Fatah al-Sissi, the head of the military, León said. ElBaradei resigned after violence erupted.*

The proposal was the result of weeks of visits and calls to Cairo by an unlikely diplomatic coalition representing supporters and opponents of Morsi and declared neutral parties, led by the United States.

The diplomatic squeeze play was meant to underline strong international opposition to any violent government action against Morsi&#8217;s supporters and to tell the Muslim Brotherhood it had no choice but to disband street encampments.

Together with Deputy Secretary of State William J. Burns and the foreign ministers of Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, León presented a proposal to scale back protests and initiate talks between the Muslim Brotherhood and the government, participants said.

*&#8220;It was a quite simple package the four of us were supporting,&#8221; León said in a interview, but one that would be difficult to resurrect now.*

The envoys had hoped to clear the squares without violence and set the stage for the transition to elections that the military had promised when it pushed Morsi from office on July 3, León said.

*The failed proposal represented the most intensive U.S. involvement to try to avert bloodshed, and demonstrates the new limits of U.S. influence over both the military and Islamists backing Morsi. Both sides have harshly criticized Washington, and each has accused President Obama of backing its opponent.*

For weeks before Wednesday&#8217;s government crackdown, *Secretary of State John F. Kerry or Burns spoke nearly every day with the foreign ministers of Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, whose influence with the opposing sides in Egypt was often stronger than Washington&#8217;s.*

*The two small, rich Gulf nations play outsize roles in regional foreign policy and tend to back different sides in Mideast conflicts. Along with Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, the two Gulf states are sending more money to Cairo than the United States is, several officials involved in the effort said.*

Throughout the six-week crisis, the United States has leaned on the UAE to intercede with the interim government and the Egyptian military, and used Qatar as a go-between with the Muslim Brotherhood. Qatar, which has backed Islamist movements and is accused of backing militants in Syria, has emerged as a leading international backer of the Brotherhood.

*&#8220;It&#8217;s natural that we would have interacted with these countries because they are the ones that are playing, that have strong relations, in Egypt,&#8221; a senior U.S. official said Friday as renewed street fighting killed at least 60 people, including eight Egyptian police officers.*

The U.S. official and others interviewed requested anonymity in order to discuss closed-door diplomacy.* None was optimistic that the kind of negotiation they had hoped to foster two weeks ago could resume anytime soon.*

*Numerous other countries were also pressing Egyptian authorities not to use force to disperse street encampments.*

&#8220;Clearly nobody had enough clout with the military to say put this off another week, put this off another two weeks,&#8221; said F. Gregory Gause III, a professor of Middle East politics at the University of Vermont. *&#8220;But I think that it&#8217;s a mistake to judge American influence in Egypt based on our ability to get them to fundamentally change the direction of domestic politics. We&#8217;re the most powerful country in the world, but states don&#8217;t give up power just because foreign patrons say do it.&#8221;*

Qatari Foreign Minister Khaled bin Mohammed al-Attiyah and UAE chief diplomat Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed bin Sultan each made repeated visits to Cairo, sometimes overlapping with Burns and León, diplomats said.

*Their joint proposal stressed the mutual goal of avoiding a bloody confrontation and left for later the hard questions of what to do with the jailed Morsi and the political participation of his backers in any future election.*

The Muslim Brotherhood called Friday for continued daily protests in support of Morsi, while the government enforced a curfew and said it will use deadly force to stop attacks on government institutions.

*Diplomatic efforts appeared at a standstill Friday. The European Union contemplated a pullback of aid to the interim government in protest of the deaths of about 700 people this week. Saudi King Abdullah, who frequently speaks for many Arab states, said he stands behind the Egyptian government in its fight against &#8220;terrorism and strife.&#8221; That suggested backing for the government&#8217;s hard line &#8212; just the opposite of the message the U.S.-backed proposal had sought to send.
*
At the United Nations, U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power spoke in favor Thursday of efforts to pass a Security Council expression of concern about the prospect of deepening violence.

But U.N. Deputy Secretary General Jan Eliasson gave a gloomy assessment of prospects to negotiate a way out of the crisis, according to two diplomats in the room.

&#8220;Eliasson was skeptical about the possibility of a positive evolution of the situation in the short term, given the antagonistic positions of the Egyptian parties,&#8221; said one diplomat. &#8220;He said that none of the key players in Egypt are open to listening to advice coming from abroad. They are not open to confidence-building, bridge-building missions.&#8221;

Michael Hanna, an expert on Egypt at the Century Foundation, said in a telephone interview from Cairo that international diplomats there seemed at a loss.

*&#8220;There is a sense that Egypt has crossed the line,&#8221; Hanna said.*

U.S. allies were near a deal for peaceful end to Egypt crisis - The Washington Post

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## islamrules

angry at sisi's crimes a man curses the peacefulness of the MB : Yakhreb bit essilmia beta3 el ikhwan !!





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=202557186572251

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## kalu_miah

@islamrules my condolences for another hundreds that died on Friday.

What percentage of people of Egypt are anti-coup in your estimate? MB-supporters and non-MB Muslims. I know Copts and Mubarak era cronies are for this coup and want to eliminate MB.

MB declared another week of protest. Looks like they want to continue to take casualty. Is this to gain sympathy among:
1. non-MB Muslims
2. people in the world who are not bigoted against Muslims and Islamists and 
3. the rank and file soldiers and young officers in Egyptian Army?

And what is the level of support among Egyptian soldiers and young officers for Sisi and his policies? Is it increasing after these killings.

I think GCC govt.'s will continue to support Sisi as long as they think that he can win, but if MB has a winning strategy and can show that they can come out a winner in this struggle, with or without defection from Army, then a lot of people will support MB, including GCC govt.s. Right now, everyone is disgusted with the killings and are sympathetic to MB because of this, but most are betting that MB is going to loose in the end, so they are supporting Sisi, either secretly or openly.

In short, there has to be a winning strategy, in all wars, strategy and execution of that strategy is everything. And only a winning strategy will bring more people to MB side.

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## islamrules

kalu_miah said:


> @islamrules my condolences for another hundreds that died on Friday.
> 
> What percentage of people of Egypt are anti-coup in your estimate? MB-supporters and non-MB Muslims. I know Copts and Mubarak era cronies are for this coup and want to eliminate MB.
> 
> MB declared another week of protest. Looks like they want to continue to take casualty. Is this to gain sympathy among:
> 1. non-MB Muslims
> 2. people in the world who are not bigoted against Muslims and Islamists and
> 3. the rank and file soldiers and young officers in Egyptian Army?
> 
> And what is the level of support among Egyptian soldiers and young officers for Sisi and his policies? Is it increasing after these killings.
> 
> I think GCC govt.'s will continue to support Sisi as long as they think that he can win, but if MB has a winning strategy and can show that they can come out a winner in this struggle, with or without defection from Army, then a lot of people will support MB, including GCC govt.s. Right now, everyone is disgusted with the killings and are sympathetic to MB because of this, but most are betting that MB is going to loose in the end, so they are supporting Sisi, either secretly or openly.
> 
> In short, there has to be a winning strategy, in all wars, strategy and execution of that strategy is everything. And only a winning strategy will bring more people to MB side.



no condolences accepted bro, as for the strategy , I seriously suggests they attack the media city but then again they can't because the army is there, Yesterday Sisi didn't give them time to turn Ramsis square into the new Rabia n Nahda .

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## idune

islamrules said:


> no condolences accepted bro, as for the strategy , I seriously suggests they attack the media city but then again they can't because the army is there, Yesterday Sisi didn't give them time to turn Ramsis square into the new Rabia n Nahda .



Brotherhood need to be persistent and strategic about their resistance against genocidal Saudi puppet regime. Turkish establishment need to rethink its strategic alignment and relation and regroup. That could bring change in shortest possible time.


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## islamrules

this one is for all Saudi members


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## VelocuR

*Egyptian Message: EGYPT WILL NEVER BE LIKE PAKISTAN*






*Pakistani Message: STOP MURDERING YOUR OWN PEOPLE, IDIOT!*

------------

*Walk like a Pakistani?*

Saturday, August 17, 2013
From Print Edition 

In 2012, when Hillary Clinton visited Egypt, she was greeted by protesters waving banners that said* &#8216;Egypt will never be like Pakistan&#8217;*. At the time it seemed as if this was a derisive statement but recent events in Egypt have proved that it was really one of despair combined with envy. After seeing the horrific events unfolding on the streets of Cairo,* I must say that it is an unfortunate loss for Egypt that it cannot be like Pakistan.*

Pakistan suffered four military regimes but democracy bounced back with vigour each time. The previous government, despite being extremely unpopular, completed its full five-year term. The military, to its credit, refused to repeat its past mistakes and did not interfere in politics. The way thousands of peaceful demonstrators were massacred in Egypt is unimaginable. So with sympathy for the Egyptians, *I must say: thank God Pakistan is not like Egypt.*

Ahmed Zaheer
Islamabad

Walk like a Pakistani? - thenews.com.pk

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## islamrules



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## -SINAN-




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## Hussein

Syrian Lion said:


> *"This article is up to date and includes all massacres against Christians starting from Muslim Brotherhood ruled Egypt till the 15th of August 2013. Just remember that when Brotherhood and Mohammed Morsi were ruling Egypt and specifically them and their Islamist extremists Militias were massacring Christians, your Governments never cared to even condemn any massacres, whether against Christians or the whole Egyptian Community."​*
> Muslim Brotherhood Massacres Against Christians In Egypt | Eman Nabih


shame on them

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## kalu_miah

islamrules said:


> no condolences accepted bro, as for the strategy , I seriously suggests they attack the media city but then again they can't because the army is there, Yesterday Sisi didn't give them time to turn Ramsis square into the new Rabia n Nahda .



Not sure why you would not accept my condolences bro, from afar providing moral support and expressing my outrage and sympathy is all I can do. Egypt is not same as Bangladesh, as we have now a so called democratic govt. which is actually an Indian puppet regime, ruled by pro-India thugs. And they tried to copy Tahrir square in a place called Shahbag square protected by police, which became a fest of atheists and seculars attacking Islam. So Islamic minded people protested and had their own sit-in. This was broken up with live bullets in the same way what we are seeing now in Egypt. Hundreds of people lost their lives apparently, but because it happened at night with lights cut off by the invading security forces, no one knows the real death toll:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/236464-bangladesh-revolution-news-updates.html

Now everyone in Bangladesh are waiting for next election in Jan. 2014, to vote out this current govt., although the current govt. has completed all preparation to rig this election, placing their loyal election officials, police etc. So there is trouble brewing there in Jan. 2014.

Getting back to the strategy you mentioned. It is clear Army will not let MB destroy their main propaganda weapon, pro-coup media. So that will not work, they will apply full force if necessary.

Having another sit-in is also not going to work, they know what happened in Tahrir and now they have learned their lessons. They will not allow any more sit-in, regardless of loss of lives. I think non-violent options are no longer workable, sit-ins will not be allowed and marches will be fired upon. The loss of lives can be a strategic weapon to gain sympathy among the non-MB Muslim population of Egypt, civilian and military. That could be a valid strategy, if it actually works.

An armed struggle can work only if a majority of Egyptian population supports this struggle, civilian and eventually military. Foreign friends and supporters will get involved if there is a winning combination, which is majority support among Egyptian population.


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## Yzd Khalifa

Hussein said:


> shame on them



3 Churches were sat on fire two days ago.

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## Jihad_

Popular tweet by Saudi's:


"King Abdullah's speech don't represent me"

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## Jihad_



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## islamrules

kalu_miah said:


> Not sure why you would not accept my condolences bro, from afar providing moral support and expressing my outrage and sympathy is all I can do. Egypt is not same as Bangladesh, as we have now a so called democratic govt. which is actually an Indian puppet regime, ruled by pro-India thugs. And they tried to copy Tahrir square in a place called Shahbag square protected by police, which became a fest of atheists and seculars attacking Islam. So Islamic minded people protested and had their own sit-in. This was broken up with live bullets in the same way what we are seeing now in Egypt. Hundreds of people lost their lives apparently, but because it happened at night with lights cut off by the invading security forces, no one knows the real death toll:
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/236464-bangladesh-revolution-news-updates.html
> 
> Now everyone in Bangladesh are waiting for next election in Jan. 2014, to vote out this current govt., although the current govt. has completed all preparation to rig this election, placing their loyal election officials, police etc. So there is trouble brewing there in Jan. 2014.
> 
> Getting back to the strategy you mentioned. It is clear Army will not let MB destroy their main propaganda weapon, pro-coup media. So that will not work, they will apply full force if necessary.
> 
> Having another sit-in is also not going to work, they know what happened in Tahrir and now they have learned their lessons. They will not allow any more sit-in, regardless of loss of lives. I think non-violent options are no longer workable, sit-ins will not be allowed and marches will be fired upon. The loss of lives can be a strategic weapon to gain sympathy among the non-MB Muslim population of Egypt, civilian and military. That could be a valid strategy, if it actually works.
> 
> An armed struggle can work only if a majority of Egyptian population supports this struggle, civilian and eventually military. Foreign friends and supporters will get involved if there is a winning combination, which is majority support among Egyptian population.



bro martyrdom is celebrated by the martyr's relatives since he will be granted by allah the right to to choose 70 of them and give them access to jannah ... so no condolences .
where do u think the Bangledeshi gvt got that idea from, I mean covering their backs up with corrupt Judeciary system n corrupt loyal media n police n military .
I agree the sit-ins won't work, and the devision between Egyptians goes as far as inside each family , so even if they want to mobilize a solide base of muslims against the seculars n christians who r pro sisi ... is would be impossible to define the enemy from the ally in a battle field , the only place where an armed operation might succeed is Sinai , because 99% of the tribes r islamists n they have a History of confrontation with the Police n military, but then again they will be fought from all sides

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## islamrules




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## Jihad_

Brothers and sisters, what we are seeing is a war being waged against islam.

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## islamrules

If u r a muslim with a beard and affraid to be harmed by the thugs put on a cross and tell them u r christian , they will give u a ride home


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## Syrian Lion

*A Coptic Orthodox Church leader says 52 churches have been attacked in 24 hours
*

'Horrible': Christian churches across Egypt stormed, torched - CNN.com


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## Syrian Lion

*True Muslims form a human shield to protect the church from MB terrorists! *


Policemen pray while Egyptian Muslims form a human shield around a church.

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## islamrules




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## olcayto

Emre Belozoglu from fenerbahce,

After scoring his goal, he does not celebrate. 
&#304;nstead he makes the Rabia sign and prays for support to the Muslim Brotherhood.

[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ouf0YYP235A[/video]

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## Jihad_



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## Jihad_

> PM Erdogan: There are two scenes in Egypt; one is of those who follow the pharaoh, and the other is of those who follow Moses.
> 
> PM Erdogan: State terrorism is being carried out in Egypt.
> 
> PM Ergodan: Those who staged the coup ignored the will of the people, and brutally killed their own citizens.

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## Jihad_

Hundreds of Saudi intellectuals sign pro-Morsi statement of support




> More than 1,700 Saudi intellectuals have issued a statement of support for pro-Morsi protesters who are calling for the return of Egypt's "stolen constitutional legitimacy". The statement also expressed appreciation for the peaceful protests in the face of army provocation.
> 
> According to Tawasul website, the signatories called for the powers opposing the elected president to follow constitutional means to sort out their differences.
> 
> Among the signatories on the statement are Dr Saud Abdullah al-Fansyan, Dr Khalid al-Ujaimi, Dr Mohsen al-Awaji, Dr Awad al-Qarni, Dr Sanhat al-Otaibi, Dr Ahmed bin-Said, Dr Abdul-Rahman al-Tamami and Dr Said al-Ghamedi. This is the text of the statement:
> 
> In the Name of Allah the Most Gracious the Most Compassionate
> 
> Statement of Saudi intellectuals in support of Egyptians
> 
> All praise be to Allah, who says: "The believing men and believing women are allies of one another." Allah's peace and prayers be upon His Prophet, who says: "The believers in their mutual kindness, compassion and sympathy are just like one body, when one of the limbs is afflicted, the whole body responds to it with wakefulness and fever." The Prophet also says: "Be kind with Egyptians because they are our kinship."
> 
> In the light of the current incidents going on in Egypt, and based on the aforementioned Qur'anic and prophetic texts, and following the advice of the Prophet, peace be upon him, we the undersigned affirm on the following:
> 
> We respect the choice of the Egyptians for their legal and legitimate leadership, as the process of choosing him was based on all global constitutions and systems. We call for them to stick to the legitimacy of the elected president Dr Mohamed Morsi, whose term in office was supported by the national referendum on the Constitution.
> We believe in the sanctity of blood, and we condemn the massacre committed [on Monday] at dawn, as well as the killings taking place in the streets and pray for Allah to pour His mercy upon them. We appreciate the peacefulness of the protesters, who dismiss violence and avoid clashes with the army and other security staff.
> We affirm the right of the Egyptians to administer their internal and external affairs alone and we reject regional and international interference, which tries to impose guardianship on them. Such interference opposes the values of Egyptians' history and notable position, which is respected in the Arabic and Islamic worlds.
> We appreciate the just international positions, which refused to recognise the military coup in Egypt and called to return constitutional legitimacy to Egyptians.
> We condemn the policy of censorship and news blackout, which was imposed by the coup authority as it closed the channels that broadcast the facts. We call for the mass media to stick to objectivity when they cover incidents and not to broadcast propaganda and false news.
> We call for our people in the land of Kanana (Egypt) to remain patient, stable and steadfast until legitimacy is returned to them. We remind them that victory is their fate by Allah's will. We also remind them with the advice of our Prophet Musa, peace be upon him, for the believers of Egypt when they faced Pharaoh: "Seek help through Allah and be patient. Indeed, the earth belongs to Allah . He causes to inherit it whom He wills of His servants. And the [best] outcome is for the righteous."
> 
> May Allah protect Egypt from any all misfortunes, return legitimacy for them, and protect them from conspirators.

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## Jihad_

Saudi religious scholars condemn military coup in Egypt



> In a statement sent on Thursday to Anadolu News Agency, a group of 56 Saudi Arabian religious scholars have condemned the military overthrow of Egypt's elected president Mohammad Morsi. The scholars described what occurred in Egypt as "unquestionably a military coup and an unlawful and illicit criminal act".
> 
> The scholars called on the de facto Egyptian authorities to "resort to dialogue and ballot boxes in order to resolve the conflict." They described the deposition the elected president of Egypt by the Minister of Defence (Abdel Fattah al-Sisi) as "a clear violation of the people's will ."
> 
> The scholars asserted that several regional and international actors have been plotting to overthrow "Egypt's legitimate president" from the moment he took office in late 2012; by deliberately sabotaging his government. They noted that certain political parties namely the National Salvation Opposition Front and Tamarod Movement were formed in Egypt for the specific purpose of overthrowing Morsi's government.
> 
> Among those who signed the manifesto are: Mohammad Naser Al Suhaibani, Ali Bin Saeid AlGhamdi, Abdul Aziz bin AbdelMohsen AlTurki, Hasan Bin Saleh AlHameed, Mohammad Bin AbdelAziz AlKhodari, Mohammad Bin Sulaiman AlBarak and AbdelAziz Mohammad AlFouzan

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## Jihad_



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## islamrules



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## Frogman

islamrules said:


>



Mistaken again. 2011/2 in front of the defence ministry.



Jihad_ said:


> Brothers and sisters, what we are seeing is a war being waged against islam.



I like how there's literally no reaction by anyone else except the women to the right. Notice the chubby kid with his hands on his hips


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## Algeria

The only reason why a deal wasn't reached between the army and MB is the Saudi and UAE pressure on Sissi to finish the brotherhood and completely crush the peaceful protesters and they will substitute any loss of US aid.
read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/18/w...nted=1&tntemail0=y&_r=1&emc=edit_tnt_20130817
This traitor is stealing his people's money and giving it the new pharos. What a sad day when EU and US are more concerned about casualties than other Arab governments.
The Egyptian government just announced today they received Billions from gulf deposited in the central bank as a reward to the massacre: @Adly_Mansour


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## islamrules




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## iranigirl2

Frogman said:


> Mistaken again. 2011/2 in front of the defence ministry.
> 
> 
> 
> I like how there's literally no reaction by anyone else except the women to the right. Notice the chubby kid with his hands on his hips



What percentage of people in Egypt Support the MB?

It seems like Egypt's army wants to wipe out the MB organization and kill all the members.


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## Jihad_

Christian Policeman doing The Sign of the Cross While Targeting Civilians With Gunfire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqzUprRrr8I#at=70

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## iranigirl2

&#x202b;


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## Solomon2

Rafi said:


> Even though I am a Shia Muslim and have no truck with Islamists of any hue or colour, from what I have seen from Independent journalists (western) ones, the violence has been simply horrific, the vast majority from the Egyptian security forces.


Remember, you only see on TV where the cameras are permitted to go and what the networks choose to show you. So it's difficult for us, at a distance, to make the judgement of where the "vast majority" of violence is coming from. 

However, the pictures on TV of tanks shooting unarmed Egyptians with their hands held up in the air suggests that the police and soldiers have received orders to ensure they have unjustifiable blood on their hands. They must feel they are now creatures of their commanders and must stand or fall with them - an old story in Arab culture, I'm sorry to say, one that tends to _lock in_ military tyranny.



Jihad_ said:


> Pharao Sisi choose for this bloodbath. MB was ready for compromise.


All accounts are - no, up to this point have been - that the M-B doesn't have the wits for compromise, otherwise matters would not have reached this point.


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## Solomon2

Jihad_ said:


>


This slogan was raised at a Hamas-led rally on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem on Friday. As EoZ put it, "So in one tiny slice of time, we have Arab justification of the Holocaust, antisemitic conspiracy theories, and a desecration of the Jews' holiest place with people who want to ethnically cleanse all Jews from the region."

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## Solomon2

Egypt's invitation to National Kissing Day

Tue, 13/08/2013 - 18:16


 
Egypt Independent
An event to celebrate National Kissing Day in Egypt on 30 August was posted by Facebook users on Tuesday. The invitation was welcomed by thousands of social media users, mostly younger ones.

&#8220;Is there anything more beautiful than seeing people loving each other and exchanging kisses?&#8221; the description of the event said. &#8220;With love, we build a healthy balanced society; while by imposing taboos, we spread hate and extremism.&#8221;

While many welcomed the invitation, a number of other users fiercely attacked it.

Nagla Ahmed is one of the users who did not exactly fall in love with the idea. &#8220;I don&#8217;t know what to tell you. Can&#8217;t you do something to serve the country or help out detainees?&#8221; 

Ahmed called the event &#8220;an empty farce."

She went on to curse the revolution which, in her opinion, made society suffer.

Another Facebook user, Alaa Magdi, tried to be more understanding of women's rights, stating that he was against the oppression of women. He still opposed the idea: "I&#8217;m not religious, or calling for religion... but how can I grasp that this event is giving women back their rights?&#8221;

Karim Al-Gehiny, on the other hand, defended the event. "In brief, this is not an incitement of immorality and debauchery, but a strike against backwardness.&#8221;

Gehiny voiced disappointment at those insulting the organizers, demanding that the nay-sayers discuss the matter with respect or otherwise ignore the event.

The Kissing Day celebration remained completely symbolic in Hossam Bakir&#8217;s opinion.

The event page does not announce a specific place to celebrate National Kissing Day, instead leaving each governorate to choose the proper place to celebrate it according to local opinions

*
Eyewitness: March to Ramses

Tom Rollins
Sat, 17/08/2013 - 17:19

Yesterday was the Muslim Brotherhood&#8217;s &#8220;Day of Rage.&#8221; While 28 marches planned to converge on Ramses Square in the heart of Cairo, a grid-iron army presence across the capital blocked off routes. Outbreaks of clashes by mid-afternoon turned into all-out violence in the Egyptian violence. The Health Ministry has said 173 people have been killed.

The protest I joined began at Sphinx Square. Two or three marches, one of them from the nearby Magfhera mosque, joined up. Not far down the road, army APCs lined the horizon &#8211; close to Mostafa Mahmoud mosque where at least 22 people were killed in street clashes with the police on Wednesday. It felt like the start of countless other marches or protests I have been on &#8211; Occupy Wall Street, British anti-austerity marches, trade union pickets &#8211; hopeful. Hopeful and a little futile.

When the thousands-strong crowd began to wind onto May 15 Bridge, a 20-year-old man climbed on top of a billboard above the motorway. He was trying to cut down the huge advertisement with Bassem Youssef&#8217;s face on it, smiling coyly on the motorists that were not there now. Running his small knife along the top of the 20-foot canvas, crowds cheered up at the man. But that was all he was able to do, skim the top of Youssef&#8217;s slicked-back liberal hair-do. Afterwards it felt like something done in vain, more a statement than an action with results. But the crowds cheered and chanted, and moved on down the road.

Over Zamalek and the Nile, occasionally someone would come out onto their balcony and wave an Egyptian flag or throw out a peace sign. Most people looked on in silence. One female marcher approached me. &#8220;Are you press?&#8221; she asked. &#8220;Please tell people that we are peaceful, that we do not have weapons.&#8221; What happened a couple of minutes later threw that statement into doubt.

As the march reached the downtown-side of May 15 Bridge, pro-Morsi marchers and loose groups of people on the Corniche below started throwing rocks at each other. One or two shots (from what sounded like a shotgun) rang out, I don&#8217;t know where from or from which side. *Then a rapid volley of gunfire confirmed that there were automatic weapons in the crowd. It felt like almost right away and out of nowhere, men with AK-47s with keffiyehs around their heads and necks appeared in amongst the pro-Morsi protesters.* Up the road, towards the October 6 Bridge intersection, young men were throwing rocks onto marchers below as they ran through in a line. People tried to take cover behind the metal barriers lining the road. There was a lot of confusion and screaming.

One man in a keffiyeh was firing a few metres behind me. He shot at the rooftops to the left and right of the bridge road. I couldn&#8217;t see any shooters there. Another shooter on the bridge fired at the rooftop stone-throwers, who then took cover and disappeared. There were shots that sounded like they were not coming from the march.

The group I was in started running forwards, further along the bridge. The whole area felt exposed. Gunmen were scanning rooftops. I stepped over a small bandage soaked in fresh blood. As we started running forwards, I looked to my right and saw a man&#8217;s head on the rooftop. I didn&#8217;t see him with a gun but a few seconds later bullets were hitting the building on the opposite side of the road, suggesting someone was firing from the right. The bullets were hitting maybe 15 feet above the road surface. Either the guy was a terrible shot &#8211; with all the gaps in the road barriers, and the hundreds of people passing by them it would not have been difficult to hit us &#8211; or he was trying to scare people and push them towards October 6 Bridge. This second theory would make more sense once we arrived there. 

At the intersection, people were rushing onto October 6 Bridge. A quick glance behind confirmed that the police were waiting for crowds to move on to the main bridge, a line of three of four police trucks with armed officers waiting at the sides. It didn&#8217;t occur to me at the time that this might be a trap.

The march had stopped at the front. You could hear shooting away at the front, but it was not clear from where. The four or five gunmen I had seen in amongst protesters before were nowhere to be seen. I saw no guns in the crowds now. I presumed they were fighting out front. Every few minutes a scooter or motorbike would rush back from the invisible frontline with the injured, some of them looked seriously hurt. One man had a neck wound, blood gushing down his chest.

I looked back towards the police line behind the intersection and they had advanced. *On a rooftop near the state media building two men had taken up position and were shooting. At first I thought they were police and were shooting protesters but the main body of the march was now in front of the direction they were aiming at. If they&#8217;d wanted to kill pro-Morsi protesters, there were hundreds of people to choose from bunched together. They may have been firing on protesters right at the back. Or they were firing on the police.*

Sporadic tear gas clouds were now appearing on both sides of the pro-Morsi bunch on the bridge. I saw tear gas fired from a roof. Then the police rearguard started moving quicker, following pro-Morsi protesters as they ran down the bridge in the direction of Ramses. Men shouted down at residents watching underneath the bridge. Some scrabbled to reach the flimsy branches of a high-up tree to get off the bridge. Videos later emerged of people actually climbing off the bridge further down the road, despite the 20 or 30-odd-feet drop to the road below. People felt trapped, there was panic. A group I was in knelt and lay down to take cover. The crack of bullets coming from the direction of Ramses, and ricochets landing nearby, confirmed that someone was firing on protesters. Eyewitness reports later suggested armed beltageya (or thugs) were firing on protesters under the protection of police.

Minutes later,* the police rearguard was firing birdshot *onto the stragglers behind, where I was now trying to take cover. People were running in the direction of Ramses. At this point I ran across the road and made it clear I was press.* I received a few birdshot rounds in the back until the advancing police heard me shouting &#8220;Sahafi! Sahafi!&#8221;* They gestured me to leave, along with two other reporters who appeared to be reeling from the effects of the tear gas.

After running to the back of the police line, I was briefly held by an officer and beltageya. My passport and all of my equipment were taken.

I am ashamed I left.

I tweeted much of this account yesterday. Some Egyptians have accused me of being a liar, others have said I must be colour blind. *Whether the guns I saw were pink, polka *** or brown and black, both sides were armed. *Interim Prime Minister Hazem al-Beblawy has said the 173 casualties from yesterday were due to civilians clashing with Brotherhood supporters, Brotherhood supporters clashing with civilians.

I cannot deny this, although I suspect the reality was more complex and harder to swallow. I only briefly saw non-Brotherhood snipers. Either way, they appeared to be coordinating with the police to move protesters over the bridge where they could be dealt with in a more official capacity by the authorities. *This is not black and white, right and wrong. *I saw two groups that, if not trying to kill each other, saw no problem in putting civilians in the direct line of fire. That includes the police, as well as the gunmen amongst the pro-Morsi march.

*

Ministry of social solidarity to start disbanding Muslim Brotherhood

Sun, 18/08/2013 - 00:23




Supporters of deposed Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi shout slogans during a protest at the Rabaa Adawiya square, where they are camping, in Cairo July 27, 2013. Reuters​ 
Egypt Independent
Minister of Social Solidarity Ahmed al-Borai said that the ministry has started taking the legal steps necessary to disband the Muslim Brotherhood.

Al-Borai added that the decision to disband the group has become a "legal duty" after the "terrorist acts" they were involved in, according to him.

He added that the ministry has the legal right to disband the organization after Shura council has been dissolved and constitution nullified.

The Muslim Brotherhood's file has been sent to the General Federation of Non-governmental Organizations to be studied. An official decision would be taken in 15 days.

Al-Borai also said that the decision to dismantle the organization will oblige it to reveal its sources of funding, its true identity, and official agenda. He added that under the current circumstances, a court ruling won't be necessary given "the crimes" the organization has committed.


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## Mosamania

Egyptian Military wearing Saudi-made Bullet proof vests: 











These vests are used by Special National Security Officers:






Made by Military Uniforms and Accessories Factory:


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## Mosamania

Jihad_ said:


> Saudi religious scholars condemn military coup in Egypt



Yessss. This is excellent news, one of the best I heard in a long time. 

Now these scholars will be taken out like flies and the Kingdom will push a Liberal hardliner approach finally. These bearded scum will soon eat dirt.


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## Brutas

Doritos11 said:


> Thats funny, you put Turks and Kurds in the "civilized" category while how have they been solving problems the last few decades ? bloodbath.
> .



Could be, but they are not tribal Bedouin cannibals !


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## Solomon2

Airing Out the House of Egypt




_Mona Eltahawy is an Egyptian-American feminist writer and commentator on Arab and Muslim issues._

UPDATED AUGUST 14, 2013, 10:59 PM

Im a tenacious optimist. Not foolish, but tenacious. Our revolution in Egypt is very much alive. It has been battered, and left for dead too many times to count, but it's still very much alive.

Im writing this in Cairo where along with 13 other provinces were under curfew and a nationwide state of emergency has been announced just one day after a day drenched in blood - the bloodiest since our revolution - a day that included at least 20 churches getting torched.

Our revolution isnt dead, it is bringing Egypt back to life, painfully and messily. Egypt is like a house thats been under lock and key, every door and window trapped shut for more than 60 years. The revolution kicked them all open and the stench is unbearable. But we are persevering. My proof? Egypt has changed, forever.

Our brutal security forces whose lexicon is beat and shoot to kill have seen again and again that Egyptians will stand up to them. They cant kill us all. The military--including its head, the Defense Minister Gen. El Sissi--knows that we stood up to the military junta that ran the country after Hosni Mubarak was forced to step down. Our protests ended more than six decades of military rule.

Wednesdays horrors were a reminder of the vicious paradigm forced on Egypt for those 60 years: an authoritarian military regime or an authoritarian Muslim Brotherhood alternative. But *our revolution did not call for either military rule or for an Islamist Egypt. It called for bread, liberty, social justice and dignity.*

Activists and street protesters whose mass mobilizations ruffled both the military junta that preceded Morsis presidency and that continued to resist his authoritarianism are gradually realizing that freedom is more than romantic notions of leaderless revolutions. We are learning just how far protests can take us.

Dont talk to me of numbers, of majority and minority. Revolutions are started and maintained by passionate minorities. Egypt is bigger than the military and the Muslim Brotherhood paradigm. At this stage, as we withstand the stench and clear out our house, there is not a political group that has not suffered or lost loved ones or been brutalized. Wise and cool heads in Egypt must remind us of that and rise above the mass killing and the torching of churches and say "enough."

Our revolution has been declared dead many times. Throughout the massacres, protests and brutality of security forces, many have told us that we are done for, forever doomed to live in tyranny and that basically we are incapable of being free.

I refuse to give up on Egypt!

_Join Room for Debate on Facebook and follow updates on twitter.com/roomfordebate._​


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## BlueWarrior

Failed state
http://www.euronews.com/2013/08/17/germany-s-foreign-minister-warns-of-possible-civil-war-in-egypt/


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## Doritos11

failed state is the entire middle east.. forget the useless word


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## monitor




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## Mahmoud_EGY

islamrules said:


> If u r a muslim with a beard and affraid to be harmed by the thugs put on a cross and tell them u r christian , they will give u a ride home


you are talking about Egypt ?about 90 percent sunni muslim


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Jihad_ said:


>

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## BlueWarrior

Can you translate the sign? These are all from Turkey. I think the hand 4 represent the massacre? A lot of 4 hand sign circulating around social sites. How will it affect between Turkish government and Egypt's military installed government relationship?

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## iranigirl2

Meanwhile, the New York Times reports that Israel actually encouraged the Egyptian coup:


*The Israelis, whose military had close ties to General Sisi from his former post as head of military intelligence, were supporting the takeover as well. Western diplomats say that General Sisi and his circle appeared to be in heavy communication with Israeli colleagues, and the diplomats believed the Israelis were also undercutting the Western message by reassuring the Egyptians not to worry about American threats to cut off aid.*

In other words, the Israeli government told General Sisi to go ahead and overthrow the government because you can count on our lobby, AIPAC to ensure that you get the annual $1.5 billion anyway.

And that exactly what is happening.

In the name of Israeli-Egyptian peace, Israel is supporting mass slaughter in Egypt and making sure America does too. And none of this is a surprise.


AIPAC Letter to Congress: Don&#8217;t You Dare Cut Aid To The Egyptian Junta | MJ Rosenberg

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## Mozambique Drill

iranigirl2 said:


> Meanwhile, the New York Times reports that Israel actually encouraged the Egyptian coup:
> 
> 
> *The Israelis, whose military had close ties to General Sisi from his former post as head of military intelligence, were supporting the takeover as well. Western diplomats say that General Sisi and his circle appeared to be in heavy communication with Israeli colleagues, and the diplomats believed the Israelis were also undercutting the Western message by reassuring the Egyptians not to worry about American threats to cut off aid.*
> 
> In other words, the Israeli government told General Sisi to go ahead and overthrow the government because you can count on our lobby, AIPAC to ensure that you get the annual $1.5 billion anyway.
> 
> And that exactly what is happening.
> 
> In the name of Israeli-Egyptian peace, Israel is supporting mass slaughter in Egypt and making sure America does too. And none of this is a surprise.



A desperate attempt to link Israel to this from a man pretending to be a woman on the internet.

Israel actually had better relations with Egypt under Morsi than they did under Mubarak. More Hamas tunnels were destroyed and more communication between the two security establishments.

Secondly, even if Israel has quietly supported Sisi, it's still Egyptians that have turned their guns on their own. They have pulled the trigger.

As can be seen by the EU/US and UN statements, the Egyptians are ignoring international calls - yet the Iraniboy thinks Israel controls Egypt.

You're a rafidi trying to cause even more divisions than your pariah terrorist state of Iran has already caused in the region.

The audacity of an Iranian talking about interfering when the pariah Iranian state is involved in destabilising a whole host of Arab nations.

Also, your link points to a blog and not the NYtimes.

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## Abdaali

o Allah save our brothers and sisters from the evil of yahoods(jews), Nasara(christian) and Monafiqin in Egypt.

Amin


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## iranigirl2

*Egyptian turmoil erupts into bloody violence*

http://video.msnbc.********/up/52779974#52779974

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## ELTurco

BlueWarrior said:


> Can you translate the sign? These are all from Turkey. I think the hand 4 represent the massacre? A lot of 4 hand sign circulating around social sites.



The banner ''salute to Morsi, hail the resistance''.

The hand sign is called Rabia sign, i have no idea about its meaning.






> How will it affect between Turkish government and Egypt's military installed government relationship?



Already Turkey does not recognise the illegitimate junta as government.


http://www.trt.net.tr/trtworld/en/newsDetail.aspx?HaberKodu=3d6560cd-9c79-4085-96e6-a79df8054542



*ERDO&#286;AN BLAMES EGYPT JUNTA WITH STATE TERRORISM*


Turkish PM Erdo&#287;an strongly condemned government in Egypt and "all attacks targeting places of worship, no matter it is a mosque or a church, since they are sacred"






Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Saturday that it is a state terrorism that is being carried out in Egypt. 

Speaking at the "Ceremony of Urban Transformation" in Bursa, Turkish PM Erdogan reiterated his condemnation of military coup and the recent attacks on religious sites in Egypt. 

"I strongly condemn all attacks targeting places of worship, no matter if it is a mosque or a church, since they are protected [sacred]," he told the crowd in Bursa. 

Erdogan described as "brutal murderers" the perpetrators of the military coup and crackdown on peaceful protesters taking streets and squares in demand of democracy and asking for the return and "honour" of their votes as the Egyptian Army ousted the first democratically elected President of Egypt Mohamed Morsi on July 3. 

"Those who staged the coup ignored the will of the people, and brutally killed their own citizens. State terrorism is being carried out in Egypt." added Turkish PM. 

He also compared Syria's Assad and Egypt's Sisi, arguing that "Bashar (al-Assad) and al-Sisi are the same, and so are those who support them. There is no difference." 

Erdogan stated that there are two different pictures of Egypt, as supporters and opponents of democracy. 

"There are two scenes in Egypt; one is of those who follow the pharaoh, and the other is of those who follow Moses," he said. 

Turkish Premier added "This is how history will evaluate the happenings in Egypt." 

Erdogan slammed the international community failing to display the necessary stance and reaction against the military coup in Egypt and the following violence and crackdown by the Egyptian army on pro-Morsi demonstrators in Cairo. 

"Those who stand silent in the face of the coup in Egypt will not be able to preach democracy in the future," he argued. 

"The Security Council, the European Union and the Organization of Islamic Cooperation are too ashamed to face themselves looking into the mirror for their attitude in the face of the military coup in Egypt and the following massacres on the Egypt's peaceful protesters. Those who remain silent, approve and encourage the massacre with their silence while the Egyptian coup authorities, who poured bullets on the people demanding justice, are stuck in that blood so as not to face their conscience," Turkish PM Erdogan said regarding international stance on the military coup and the violent crackdown on anti-coup demonstrators. 

Turkish PM repeated his critic of some states immediately providing the coup regime of Egypt that mounted the military coup with billions of financial aid, saying "Some poured aid of 16 billion dollars to the coup regime of Egypt after the military coup. In my opinion, those supporting the coup regime with 16 billion dollars are the partners of the coup regime in Egypt." 

"I invite those who attack places of worship to act sensibly, and I'm calling on all sides. But look at the game that's being played: The Muslim Brotherhood is trying to protect churches and the media - remember the 'Gezi' media in Turkey and around the world? - that's the same type of media coverage for Egypt. Do you know what they say? They say, 'the Muslim Brotherhood torched 30 churches.' But the fact is that they were trying to protect them," concluded Erdogan. 

While addressing the crowd in Bursa regarding the situation in Egypt, Erdogan made the Rabaa sign, symbol of anti-coup protests. 

Hundreds of protesters, including women and children, had taken refuge in the Al Fath Mosque in the Egyptian capital Cairo following assault by security forces in Ramses Square escalated. 

Later, security forces tightened control over the entire square and besieged Fath Mosque and the nearby Tawheed Mosque. 

More than 181 people were killed Friday in mass rallies staged by pro-democracy demonstrators in several Egyptian cities to protest Wednesday's violent dispersal of their two main protest sites in Cairo and Giza. 

Egypt has been in a state of turmoil since security forces violently dispersed the sit-ins in Rabaa al-Adawiya and Nahda squares on Wednesday. 

The Health Ministry has said that at least 638 people had been killed in nationwide violence since Wednesday, including 288 in Rabaa and 87 in Nahda. 

However, the pro-Morsi alliance has put the number of deaths from the Rabaa sit-in alone at some 2,600.

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## darkinsky



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## olcayto

@BlueWarrior

The top picture says,

Salam to Mursi
Continue the struggle.

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## Solomon2

iranigirl2 said:


> In other words, the Israeli government told General Sisi to go ahead and overthrow the government because you can count on our lobby, AIPAC to ensure that you get the annual $1.5 billion anyway.


If you read the article the context of Israeli support is AFTER the coup itself so this "In other words..." bit is an unjustifiable invention. 

Readers will also note that Israeli support - post-coup lobbying to protect military aid to Egypt - is discussed third, after that of the Emiratis and the Saudis.


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## ELTurco

In his todays speech Erdogan likened Sisi to Bashar Asad.



*ERDO&#286;AN REACTS TO SILENCE OVER MASSACRES IN EGYPT*

Prime Prime Recep Tayyip Erdo&#287;an strongly reacted to massacres being committed in Egypt and criticized international community for its silence over these massacres.







Addressing the Gulf countries Erdo&#287;an said the ones who are silent over Egypt today will not be able to speak tomorrow when it will be their turn and United Nations does not have a face to look into mirror anymore. 

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdo&#287;an expressed his stern reaction once again in Bursa. 

The Prime Minister especially criticized western and Gulf countries. 

Stating that $16 billion have been donated to Egyptian coup administration Erdo&#287;an said these donors are the partners of the coup administration in Egypt. 

Responding to criticism of Egyptian coup leaders towards Turkey Prime Minister Erdo&#287;an said they want Turkey to turn a blind eye and remain silent over coup and massacres violating its own conscience. While bullets are being showered on the justice seekers, the people who are silent and approve and appreciate these actions with their silence have drowned into this blood to the extent that they will not be able to face their own conscience. A state terrorism is being carried out in Egypt right now, Prime Minister Erdo&#287;an said. 

Regarding the siege of Al Fatah Mosque Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdo&#287;an said worship place of the people is innocent however these people have burned and destroyed mosques in Syria and Egypt while Sisi is indifferent from Bashar. 

Touching upon the claims that Muslim Brotherhood burned churches Erdo&#287;an said the international media have distorted the incidents and drew attention towards the traps intended for the region and Turkey. 

Criticizing United Nations Prime Minister Erdo&#287;an said efforts are underway to stop bloodshed. 

Erdo&#287;an said UN Security Council and European Union do not have a face to look into mirror. They couldn&#8217;t even condemn. The ones who are silent over Egypt today will not be able to speak tomorrow when it will be their turn. 

The Prime Minister underscored the games being played in the region and said the traps over Turkey will be permitted. 


Erdo

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## BlueWarrior

ELTurco said:


> In his todays speech Erdogan likened Sisi to Bashar Asad.
> 
> 
> 
> *ERDO&#286;AN REACTS TO SILENCE OVER MASSACRES IN EGYPT*
> 
> Prime Prime Recep Tayyip Erdo&#287;an strongly reacted to massacres being committed in Egypt and criticized international community for its silence over these massacres.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Addressing the Gulf countries Erdo&#287;an said the ones who are silent over Egypt today will not be able to speak tomorrow when it will be their turn and United Nations does not have a face to look into mirror anymore.
> 
> Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdo&#287;an expressed his stern reaction once again in Bursa.
> 
> The Prime Minister especially criticized western and Gulf countries.
> 
> Stating that $16 billion have been donated to Egyptian coup administration Erdo&#287;an said these donors are the partners of the coup administration in Egypt.
> 
> Responding to criticism of Egyptian coup leaders towards Turkey Prime Minister Erdo&#287;an said they want Turkey to turn a blind eye and remain silent over coup and massacres violating its own conscience. While bullets are being showered on the justice seekers, the people who are silent and approve and appreciate these actions with their silence have drowned into this blood to the extent that they will not be able to face their own conscience. A state terrorism is being carried out in Egypt right now, Prime Minister Erdo&#287;an said.
> 
> Regarding the siege of Al Fatah Mosque Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdo&#287;an said worship place of the people is innocent however these people have burned and destroyed mosques in Syria and Egypt while Sisi is indifferent from Bashar.
> 
> Touching upon the claims that Muslim Brotherhood burned churches Erdo&#287;an said the international media have distorted the incidents and drew attention towards the traps intended for the region and Turkey.
> 
> Criticizing United Nations Prime Minister Erdo&#287;an said efforts are underway to stop bloodshed.
> 
> Erdo&#287;an said UN Security Council and European Union do not have a face to look into mirror. They couldn&#8217;t even condemn. The ones who are silent over Egypt today will not be able to speak tomorrow when it will be their turn.
> 
> The Prime Minister underscored the games being played in the region and said the traps over Turkey will be permitted.
> 
> 
> Erdo


I think UN doesn't care about anything but to attack Erdogan, we can recall how they all condemned Erdogan's hate speech against Israel several times and critisizing Turkey as second class democracy after Gezi protest  I feel sorry for him because no one backs him.


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## iranigirl2

*Saudi prince fires director of Islamic TV channel*


RIYADH, Saudi Arabia -- Saudi billionaire Prince Alwaleed bin Talal has fired the director of an Islamic TV channel for his role as the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Kuwait.

He wrote Sunday on his Twitter account that he sacked Tarek Al-Suwaidan "for admitting he belongs to the Brotherhood terrorist movement."

Al-Suwaidan, a Kuwaiti, was the director general of Al-Resalah channel, which belongs to Alwaleed's Rotana Group &#8212; a large pan-Arab media conglomerate based in Riyadh. 

Al-Suwaidan has sharply criticized Egypt's military-backed government and voiced support for deposed President Mohammed Morsi on his Twitter account.

Saudi King Abdullah, whose country has pledged $5 billion in aid to Egypt's interim leaders, supported Cairo's crackdown on the Brotherhood, saying the kingdom stood by Egypt's fight against "terrorism and strife." 

Read more here: RIYADH, Saudi Arabia: Saudi prince fires director of Islamic TV channel - World Wires - MiamiHerald.com

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## iranigirl2

*Canadians reported arrested amid Egypt crisis*


Canadians reported arrested amid Egypt crisis - Canada - CBC News

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## Keyxusraw

BlueWarrior said:


> I think UN doesn't care about anything but to attack Erdogan, we can recall how they all condemned Erdogan's hate speech against Israel several times and critisizing Turkey as second class democracy after Gezi protest  I feel sorry for him because no one backs him.



Know why? Because the guy can not even distance himself or condemn the racism and facism committed by hiw own police and military. He is always quick to condemn attacks against Muslims in Egypt, Palestine, Burma, Syria etc. But what about attacks against his own people in hiw own country? It is actually a very good political strategy. By focusing on attacks against Muslims in other countries, he is removing focus of attacks against people in his own country. So sad that Muslims really believe Erdogan gives two cents about them...


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## Hussein

Mozambique Drill said:


> A desperate attempt to link Israel to this from a man pretending to be a woman on the internet.
> 
> Israel actually had better relations with Egypt under Morsi than they did under Mubarak. More Hamas tunnels were destroyed and more communication between the two security establishments.
> 
> Secondly, even if Israel has quietly supported Sisi, it's still Egyptians that have turned their guns on their own. They have pulled the trigger.
> 
> As can be seen by the EU/US and UN statements, the Egyptians are ignoring international calls - yet the Iraniboy thinks Israel controls Egypt.
> 
> You're a rafidi trying to cause even more divisions than your pariah terrorist state of Iran has already caused in the region.
> 
> The audacity of an Iranian talking about interfering when the pariah Iranian state is involved in destabilising a whole host of Arab nations.
> 
> Also, your link points to a blog and not the NYtimes.


Iranigirl is obsessed with Israel
he doesn't represent Iranians . thanks to avoid summary Iranian ideas to this guy.


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## Yzd Khalifa

*Ayatollah Khamenei Blames Israel And US For Egypt Turmoil*


BY: JPOST.COM STAFF


Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is placing the blame for Egypts political turmoil on Israel and the US.
The religious leader took to his official Twitter account on Saturday, placing blame on Egypts former ousted leader, Hosni Mubarak, and on his relations with Israel and the US.

Mubaraks collaboration w/ Israel&US made Egyptians feel humiliated so* they made a #revolution&Zionists reacted against this revolution now.

He stressed his position in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, saying #Egypt was 1st country that entered into war w/ #Zionists for Palestinians.

Calling Mubarak a servant to the Zionists, Khamenei also Tweeted that Mubarak is not a freedom fighter.
Earlier this month, when Egyptian tensions were at an all-time-high, with constant ongoing violence, he Tweeted that the #Zionist regime sit and watch the situation of #Egypt w/ satisfaction.

With the text, he also included a digitally edited image of a group of American political leaders laughing hysterically at what appears to be turmoil in Egypt.


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## islamrules

Rabia is derivated from the word Arba'a = 4 , thus the 4 fingers

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## Hussein

Yzd Khalifa said:


> *Ayatollah Khamenei Blames Israel And US For Egypt Turmoil*
> 
> 
> BY: JPOST.COM STAFF
> 
> 
> Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is placing the blame for Egypt&#8217;s political turmoil on Israel and the US.
> The religious leader took to his official Twitter account on Saturday, placing blame on Egypt&#8217;s former ousted leader, Hosni Mubarak, and on his relations with Israel and the US.
> 
> &#8220;Mubarak&#8217;s collaboration w/ Israel&US made Egyptians feel humiliated so* they made a #revolution&Zionists reacted against this revolution now.&#8221;
> 
> He stressed his position in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, saying &#8220;#Egypt was 1st country that entered into war w/ #Zionists for Palestinians.&#8221;
> 
> Calling Mubarak a &#8220;servant to the Zionists,&#8221; Khamenei also Tweeted that Mubarak is not a freedom fighter.
> Earlier this month, when Egyptian tensions were at an all-time-high, with constant ongoing violence, he Tweeted that the &#8220;#Zionist regime sit and watch the situation of #Egypt w/ satisfaction.&#8221;
> 
> With the text, he also included a digitally edited image of a group of American political leaders laughing hysterically at what appears to be turmoil in Egypt.


this guy asked to kill its own people in 2009
and gives lessons . lol

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## Serpentine

Hussein said:


> this guy asked to kill its own people in 2009
> and gives lessons . lol



Why don't you show us where exactly he asked to 'kill his own people' ? You shouldn't let your hate to affect your judgement, no matter if you hate the subject or not.
He asked BOTH sides to calm down and to let there be a recount in the votes, but idiots from both sides made the situation worse.

This is not the topic here, but I can prove you wrong in a proper thread.

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## islamrules

Helwan






Elminia

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## doublemaster

Serpentine said:


> Why don't you show us where exactly he asked to 'kill his own people' ? You shouldn't let your hate to affect your judgement, no matter if you hate the subject or not.
> He asked BOTH sides to calm down and to let there be a recount in the votes, but idiots from both sides made the situation worse.
> 
> This is not the topic here, but I can prove you wrong in a proper thread.



No probably Iran did the right think...Only few got killed...If they bent for so called liberals...then they would do the same thing like egyptianarmy doing today
Now look at egypt....


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## islamrules




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## islamrules



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## islamrules




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## Hussein

Serpentine said:


> Why don't you show us where exactly he asked to 'kill his own people' ? You shouldn't let your hate to affect your judgement, no matter if you hate the subject or not.
> He asked BOTH sides to calm down and to let there be a recount in the votes, but idiots from both sides made the situation worse.
> 
> This is not the topic here, but I can prove you wrong in a proper thread.


well everyone knows that in Iran 
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/20/world/middleeast/20iran.html?_r=0



doublemaster said:


> No probably Iran did the right think...Only few got killed...If they bent for so called liberals...then they would do the same thing like egyptianarmy doing today
> Now look at egypt....


next time you will compare to Mongolia or Sudan ? try to be smart
Egypt and Iran are very different countries (army, leader, and so)


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## Solomon2

Al-Azhar urges Brotherhood to renounce violence

Sun, 18/08/2013 - 11:18



Al-Masry Al-Youm
Al-Azhar, Egypt's leading Sunni Islam authority, has urged the Muslim Brotherhood to renounce violence as protesters continue to engage in bloody clashes with local residents and security forces following the dispersals of two sit-ins last week.

Nearly 800 were killed during the dispersals and subsequent violence across the country.

On Saturday, Grand Sheikh of al-Azhar Ahmed al-Tayyeb, urged the Brotherhood to avoid bloodshed and to protect their country.

In a recorded message aired on state TV, Tayyeb said: "Scenes of violence will not win rights for anybody. Legitimacy cannot be acquired through bloodshed.

"There is still a chance and a hope for many of you who have not been involved in instigating violence," he added, addressing Brotherhood supporters.

Come to the protection of Egypt, the country where you were born and brought up, hurry to protect your country from sliding into a blind sedition that could set the nation on fire," Tayyeb warned.

Tayyeb stressed that al-Azhar still resists attempts to "polarize" and "influence" religious scholars by parties in the Egyptian crisis.

Edited translation from Al-Masry Al-YoumAl-Masry Al-Youm
Al-Azhar, Egypt's leading Sunni Islam authority, has urged the Muslim Brotherhood to renounce violence as protesters continue to engage in bloody clashes with local residents and security forces following the dispersals of two sit-ins last week.

Nearly 800 were killed during the dispersals and subsequent violence across the country.

On Saturday, Grand Sheikh of al-Azhar Ahmed al-Tayyeb, urged the Brotherhood to avoid bloodshed and to protect their country.

In a recorded message aired on state TV, Tayyeb said: "Scenes of violence will not win rights for anybody. Legitimacy cannot be acquired through bloodshed.

"There is still a chance and a hope for many of you who have not been involved in instigating violence," he added, addressing Brotherhood supporters.

Come to the protection of Egypt, the country where you were born and brought up, hurry to protect your country from sliding into a blind sedition that could set the nation on fire," Tayyeb warned.

Tayyeb stressed that al-Azhar still resists attempts to "polarize" and "influence" religious scholars by parties in the Egyptian crisis.

_Edited translation from Al-Masry Al-Youm_

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## islamrules



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## Mahmoud_EGY

islamrules said:


>


what is wrong with that ? they are egyptians this our army 
the Egyptian armed forces are for all Egyptians


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## islamrules

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> what is wrong with that ? they are egyptians this our army
> the Egyptian armed forces are for all Egyptians



don't make me laugh

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## hussain0216

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> what is wrong with that ? they are egyptians this our army
> the Egyptian armed forces are for all Egyptians



Everything is wrong with it

The copts are one of the main groups who have subverted democracy in Egypt and the middle east, they have supported brutal dictators for decades and supported the slaughter of Muslims

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## Solomon2

islamrules said:


>


Less than 3,000 people are in this picture. Surely more M-B supporters than this were on the streets demonstrating today?


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## Solomon2

hussain0216 said:


> The copts are one of the main groups who have subverted democracy in Egypt and the middle east, they have supported brutal dictators for decades and supported the slaughter of Muslims


I don't think the "slaughter of Muslims" bit is true; however, are Muslims really helping matters by burning down Coptic Christian churches right and left? And yes, I mean to implicate most Muslims here, as the Copts receive few if any words of sympathy or material support from Muslims inside or outside Egypt for these mad deeds. 

If I recall correctly long ago Egypt had a Muslim ruler who went mad and burned down churches. Everybody, Christians and Muslims, was glad when he died and his Muslim successor rebuilt the churches with State funds.


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## islamrules

this is pakistan

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## pkuser2k12

Solomon2 said:


> Less than 3,000 people are in this picture. Surely more M-B supporters than this were on the streets demonstrating today?



i told you *earlier* stop reading *Mathematics for retards*

i think you applied your *"limits" *here right

lol


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## islamrules

38 muslims killed in Abu za'bal prison Today


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## Hussein

pkuser2k12 said:


> i told you earlier stop reading *Mathematics for retards*
> 
> i think you applied your *"limits" *here right
> 
> lol


the stupid retard is the kind of people like you giving such answer


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## pkuser2k12

Hussein said:


> the stupid retard is the kind of people like you giving such answer



i was referring to my previous conversation with him 

as you don't know that so don't troll and dont reply to me as you dont know the matter

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## Solomon2

islamrules said:


> this is pakistan


I wondered about that but I thought if it was Pakistan instead of Egypt you would have mentioned it.


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## hussain0216

islamrules said:


> 38 muslims killed in Abu za'bal prison Today



This was a massacre

They were murdered and then a excuse found why they were killed

This is the fate of Muslim in Egypt, to honour the martyrs the fight must go on

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## anonymus

hussain0216 said:


> Everything is wrong with it
> 
> The copts are one of the main groups who have subverted democracy in Egypt and the middle east, they have supported brutal dictators for decades and supported the slaughter of Muslims



Then why do you cry if some mosque is firebombed by EDL.


By *your* logic, Muslims everywhere, should be massacred as a lot of them are avant grade terrorists.


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## islamrules



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## Solomon2

Hussein said:


> the stupid retard is the kind of people like you giving such answer


PK-12 & I previously discussed "Mathematics for retards" here.

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## hussain0216

anonymus said:


> Then why do you cry if some mosque is firebombed by EDL.
> 
> 
> By *your* logic, Muslims everywhere, should be massacred as a lot of them are avant grade terrorists.




Are you retarded or something, avant grade terrorist ??????

The Christians in both Egypt and Syria are some of the biggest supporter's of the dictators who have slaughtered many millions over decades

Even today they provide massive material support to the regimes to kill and oppress

This is not lone christian scum supporting dictators this is community wide

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## anonymus

hussain0216 said:


> Are you retarded or something, avant grade terrorist ??????
> 
> The Christians in both Egypt and Syria are some of the biggest supporter's of the dictators who have slaughtered many millions over decades
> 
> Even today they provide massive material support to the regimes to kill and oppress
> 
> This is not lone christian scum supporting dictators this is community wide




No my analogy is perfect, it always was.


Since you believe that it is perfectly justified to attack Coptic Churches and killing Christians because they support faction that is opposing Islamists.



so



Mosques should be destroyed and Muslims should be exterminated with extreme prejudice for the act of terrorism committed by Muslims for which there is a widespread acceptance in Islamic societies. 


I am applying your logic onto you.


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## hussain0216

If the queen of england decided to grab full power in the Uk, disposed of the elected government

Threw our prime minister into jail at undisclosed location then cooked up charges against him

Got rid of all the elected officisls round up thousands and arresting and detaining them on bogus charges

Filled parliament with unelected officials with a vagueopromise about the restoration of democracy


And killed thousands of innocent people protesting against the injustice


If the queen of England did all that and British Muslims supported her against the British public, fine go grab a pack of matches and go nuts


Until then don't compare the two



The copts know what they are doing and are just as guilty as the military for the massacres

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## Solomon2

hussain0216 said:


> The Christians in both Egypt and Syria are some of the biggest supporter's of the dictators who have slaughtered many millions over decades -


Try checking the statistics first and applying your anger afterward. Just because you feel angry doesn't mean your anger is justified.



> Even today they provide massive material support to the regimes to kill and oppress -


I mean, this statement is really whack.



> This is not lone christian scum supporting dictators this is community wide


I can easily picture you as the man in the back of the mob who screams "Get them!", picking the pockets of the people in front and robbing the dead afterward. Is this the future of Islam in the U.K.?

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## islamrules

Pakistan


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## Doritos11

islamrules said:


> Pakistan



Who cares what foreigners want


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## islamrules




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## Ceylal

hussain0216 said:


> Everything is wrong with it
> 
> The copts are one of the main groups who have subverted democracy in Egypt and the middle east, they have supported brutal dictators for decades and supported the slaughter of Muslims


 Hey smart guy, show me one Muslim country who is a democratic heaven

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## Ceylal

islamrules said:


> Rabia is derivated from the word Arba'a = 4 , thus the 4 fingers



Nope, 4 fingers represent arab countries in turmoil..Tunisia, Lybia, Egypt and Syria...


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## islamrules

*12 years boy, shot in the head in Fayoum city 17-8-2013 *


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## revojam

Lies of MB exposed : Fake wound caught on live tv.

********.com - Injured Egyptian Brotherhood cought with fake wound?

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## agentny17

This is whats really happening in Egypt 





*Egypt&#8217;s Military: Doing What Germany&#8217;s Should Have Done in 1933*
Thirty million people in the streets of Egypt, with the help of the Egyptian military, have saved the United States from the consequences of its disastrous policy of supporting the Muslim Brotherhood since President Barack Obama came to office. Just months after his inauguration in 2009, Mr. Obama appeared in Cairo to address the Muslim world. He ensured that members of the Muslim Brotherhood were seated in the front row of the auditorium at Cairo University. Since the group was still officially banned in Egypt, no one from President Hosni Mubarak&#8217;s administration could attend. The message from the seating arrangement was unmistakable: even at the price of snubbing his official host, Mr. Obama recognized the Muslim Brotherhood as a legitimate player in Egyptian politics. Already, this was clearly interference in the internal affairs of the Egyptian state.

Former British ambassador Charles Crawford later characterized Obama&#8217;s quixotic address in the following way: &#8220;It boiled down to a well delivered speech full of clever emollient phrases that ultimately sent a message of appeasement to militant Islamist tendencies: Under my restrained leadership the United States will respect and accept conservative forms of Islam. Even if Islamism gets too aggressive we don&#8217;t plan to do much about it.&#8221;

Why would the United States want to give the green light to militant Islam? Wasn&#8217;t militant Islam, after all, the problem? Of course, President Obama has never publicly admitted that it is as a form of the &#8220;violent extremism&#8221; he opposes. But perhaps the Obama administration thought there was no alternative, or perhaps it was simply ignorant of the true nature of the Muslim Brotherhood. Most likely it thought that the Brotherhood could be tamed if it were given political responsibility. At any event, its representatives said some extraordinarily strange things. At a House Intelligence Committee hearing on February 10, 2011, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper described the Muslim Brotherhood as a &#8220;largely secular&#8221; organization with &#8220;no overarching agenda.&#8221; This was a rather unusual characterization of a group whose motto is: &#8220;Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Qur&#8217;an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.&#8221; If that is secular, what might the religious be?

As for an overarching agenda, the de facto spiritual head of the Muslim Brotherhood, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi proclaimed: &#8220;Islam is a comprehensive school of thought, a creed, an ideology, and cannot be completely satisfied but by [completely] controlling society and directing all aspects of life, from how to enter the toilet to the construction of the state.&#8221; That means the rule of sharia (Islamic jurisprudence), to which the Muslim Brotherhood has been dedicated since its inception in 1928. The other objective is the restoration of the universal caliphate. The vehicle for doing both is establishment of a one-party totalitarian state.



Totalitarians Don&#8217;t Share Power

The totalitarian parties on which the Muslim Brotherhood was modeled &#8211; Lenin&#8217;s Communists, Mussolini&#8217;s Fascists, and Hitler&#8217;s National Socialists &#8211; showed no inclination toward moderation once having obtained political power. All of them remained true to their principles. Once in power after Mubarak&#8217;s overthrow, President Mohammed Morsi gave a hint of what was to come by openly calling for Shaykh Omar Abdel-Rahman&#8217;s repatriation to Egypt from the U.S. federal prison in which he is incarcerated. The famous blind Shaykh was considered the spiritual inspiration behind the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and is serving a life sentence in connection with a subsequent plot to bomb New York landmarks and tunnels. Might this have been a sign of trouble to come?

In January, a congressional delegation, including Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham, were in Cairo visiting President Morsi when an embarrassing pair of videos appeared on the site of the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), documenting the virulent anti-Semitism Morsi had expressed in campaign appearances in 2010. In a September, 2010 interview, Morsi gave a preview of what Egypt&#8217;s approach to Israel might be:

Either [you accept] the Zionists and everything they want, or else it is war. This is what these occupiers of the land of Palestine know &#8211; these blood-suckers, who attack the Palestinians, these warmongers, the descendants of apes and pigs&#8230;We must confront this Zionist entity&#8230; We want a country for the Palestinians on the entire land of Palestine, on the basis of [Palestinian] citizenship. All the talk about a two-state solution and about peace is nothing but an illusion&#8230;

In another 2010 appearance at a rally in his hometown in the Nile Delta, Morsi said:

We must never forget, brothers, to nurse our children and our grandchildren on hatred for them: for Zionists, for Jews.&#8221; Morsi added that Egyptian children &#8220;must feed on hatred; hatred must continue&#8230; The hatred must go on for God and as a form of worshiping him.

Everyone in the U.S. delegation got terribly embarrassed over these indiscretions but cleared their throats and continued their trip after President Morsi assured them that the remarks were taken out of context. What might that context have been? Could it have been the context of the Qur&#8217;an with its proclamations of everlasting curses upon the Jews? Or perhaps the context of the Muslim Brotherhood program itself &#8211; or of its Hamas branch which promises in its charter to eliminate Israel? In either case, how anyone could have been surprised by what Morsi had said after more than eight decades of such rhetoric from the Muslim Brotherhood and its branches must have been in a state of either willful or blissful ignorance. Nonetheless, support from the United States continued. Secretary of State John Kerry met with Morsi in March when he released $250 million in American aid, with promises of more to come.

The only way the United States could have behaved in the way in which it has was by not taking the principles of the Muslim Brotherhood seriously. We still don&#8217;t, which explains the many lamentations over Morsi&#8217;s downfall (such protestations were notably absent when Mubarak fell in much the same way). Even intelligent commentators like Fouad Ajami can make statements that, &#8220;When the Obama administration could not call the coup d&#8217;état by its name, we put on display our unwillingness to honor our own democratic creed&#8230;&#8221; Come again? Since when does our democratic creed require support for the restoration of a party whose principles are inimical to that creed and to the underlying principle of democracy that all people are created equal?

Bernard Lewis predicted this mess when he said that the rush to early elections after the fall of Mubarak would lead, as did similar events in the Weimar Republic, to the ascension of the most dangerous elements society &#8211; meaning victory for the Muslim Brotherhood. In an interview with David Horowitz in the Jerusalem Post (February 25, 2011), Lewis cautioned that the discourse in Egypt is still &#8220;religiously defined&#8221; and that &#8220;the language of Western democracy is for the most part newly translated and not intelligible to the great masses.&#8221; How many Egyptians, for instance, actually believe that Copts and Muslims, men and women, believers and nonbelievers, are equal&#8212;to say nothing of Jews and Muslims? Pressing for elections now, he warned, could lead to catastrophe, as only religious parties are well enough organized to take advantage of them. (Lewis preferred first to see the development of local self-governing institutions.) Therefore, he said, &#8220;I don&#8217;t see elections, Western-style, as the answer to the problem. I see it rather as a dangerous aggravation of a problem. The Western-style election&#8230;has no relevance at all to the situation in most Middle Eastern countries. It can only lead to one direction, as it did in [Weimar] Germany, for example.&#8221; He was right. True to form, once in power, the Muslim brotherhood and Morsi went methodically about trying to monopolize power. Morsi assigned himself powers that a Pharaoh would have envied.

Sudanese writer Al-Hajj Warraq, got it exactly right in an Egyptian television interview last year. He said:

Democracy is about more than just the ballot box. Democracy is a culture engraved upon the cerebral box before it is the ballot box. One cannot talk about freedom in the absence of free minds. The tragedy of the Arab Spring is that when the tyrannical regimes fell, the fruits were reaped by movements that preach closed-mindedness, rather than free thinking. The outcome will be regimes that are worse than those that were toppled.

Apparently, the Egyptian people &#8211; at least the 30 million who were in the streets marching against Morsi &#8211; agreed with him. Unfortunately, the United States has not.

When Hosni Mubarak was arrested in 2001 after his overthrow, no United States senators visited him in prison or in his prison hospital. Why not? He had been an ally of the United States for almost three decades. The answer is that such a visit would have clearly telegraphed to the Egyptian people that the United States supported Mubarak&#8217;s restoration.



Why are Americans Backing the Muslim Brotherhood?

Likewise, what were the Egyptian people expected to make of the visits earlier this month by Senators McCain and Graham to Mohammed Morsi under house arrest and to, of all people, the Deputy Guide of the Brotherhood, Khairat al-Shater, also under arrest? No matter what intentions Senators McCain and Graham may have had, the choreography of the visits clearly indicated support by the United States for a Muslim Brotherhood restoration. On top of that, President Obama has now canceled the long-planned military exercises with the Egyptian military, further expressing his disapproval. These actions obviously encourage and incite the pro-Morsi opposition. The Brotherhood will be less likely to reach an accommodation with the new government because of them.

However, accommodation is not in the cards, anyway. The Muslim Brotherhood thought, no doubt, that with its accession to power in Egypt, arguably the most important Arab country, it was well on its way to realizing its millenarian dream of expansion and the reconstruction of the caliphate. Arab spring eruptions elsewhere in the Middle East were also going its way. Therefore, to lose the pinnacle of power in Egypt places its members in a life or death struggle. Since this struggle is at its heart every bit as ideological as were the struggles in the Weimar Republic in the 1930s or the struggles in Imperial Russia in the 1917, deploring violence and calling for reconciliation simply makes the United States appear naïve and totally disconnected from the ground truth of what is actually taking place. (Saudi Arabia and the UAE understand what is going on, which is why they are willing to pony up $12 billion in support of the new government. They are relieved that the Brotherhood&#8217;s imperial project, of which they were intended victims, has been thwarted for the time being.)

In this struggle for power, some people will win; others will lose, but it is important enough that both sides are willing both to take and to lose lives to reach their objectives. Tut-tutting on the sidelines makes the United States appear ridiculous. Instead of just deploring violence, we should be appraising the character of the moral principles animating the two sides in this conflict and supporting the side that more closely comports with our own. And yes, that may require the choice of a lesser evil.

Unfortunately, the German military did not move against Adolph Hitler when he became Chancellor of Germany in 1933. Had they done so, Europe and the United States would have been spared a world of woe. Had that happened, would the American government have tried to intervene at the time, insisting on a restoration of Hitler, who had been democratically elected by a plurality of the German people? Would we have insisted that our democratic creed required us to do so? These questions answer themselves. We would have been grateful to the German military for doing so. We should likewise have some appreciation for what the Egyptian military has done to save its country and, by the way, preserve U.S. strategic interests in that area of the Middle East.

But what about the transition to democracy? Maybe the new government will be able to make one, but most likely, at least for the foreseeable future, it may not be able to. That will depend on the underlying conditions of which Bernard Lewis and Al-Hajj Warraq spoke. In any case, as Jean Kirkpatrick taught us long ago, an authoritarian regime is always preferable to a totalitarian one
http://www.intercollegiatereview.com/index.php/2013/08/16/egypts-military-doing-what-the-wehrmacht-should-have-done-in-1933/


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## Jihad_

agentny17 said:


> This is whats really happening in Egypt



A coup that's not a coup, a massacre that's not a massacre. Yeah, we heard that bullshit before. And still no one buys it.


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## agentny17

Jihad_ said:


> A coup that's not a coup, a massacre that's not a massacre. Yeah, we heard that bullshit before. And still no one buys it.


Well, too bad you are not in Egypt Mr. Jihad because you could have been a "shaheed" by now like the others who didn't buy it and decided to fight . Maybe you should try to get a visa. You guys(Islamists) have no idea who you dealing with. You guys made a huge mistake and it will mark the end of the Muslim Brotherhood as an organization in Egypt, forever!!

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## Jihad_

agentny17 said:


> Well, too bad you are not in Egypt Mr. Jihad because you could have been a "shaheed" by now like the others who didn't buy it and decided to fight . Maybe you should try to get a visa. You guys(Islamists) have no idea who you dealing with. You guys made a huge mistake and it will mark the end of the Muslim Brotherhood as an organization in Egypt, forever!!



Go ahead, awake and unleach the islamic lion(s).


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## Mosamania

agentny17 said:


> Well, too bad you are not in Egypt Mr. Jihad because you could have been a "shaheed" by now like the others who didn't buy it and decided to fight . Maybe you should try to get a visa. You guys(Islamists) have no idea who you dealing with. You guys made a huge mistake and it will mark the end of the Muslim Brotherhood as an organization in Egypt, forever!!



I am so happy beyond compare that my country is fighting Islamism so openly, I never thought I would live to see the day. I knew they were fighting Islamists but only in secret. Never so openly though.

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## agentny17

Jihad_ said:


> Go ahead, awake and unleach the *islamic lion(s)*.


 . Your 'Islamic Lions" have been using women and children as human shields so they don't get arrested! Yesterday police officers saved about 800 Islamists trapped in the mosque from people who lived around the mosque who wanted to eat them alive because they murdered someone and destroyed property while protesting. Islamic Lions my A**



Mosamania said:


> I am so happy beyond compare that my country is fighting Islamism so openly, I never thought I would live to see the day. I knew they were fighting Islamists but only in secret. Never so openly though.


Well, the same thing is Egypt!! Social media, internet, and all that stuff changed our people!! Our people now realize how these creatures have been hurting our countries for years!!

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## islamrules

@Mosamania
no comment !!
 @agentny17

for every pharaon there is a Moses


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## VelocuR

Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal *fired* Dr. Tareq al-Suwaidan from Al Resalah Channel citing his association with the Muslim Brotherhood as the main reason.

'Only the weak worry about earning a living, and no one abandons his principles but he who cares about earthly matters', Suwaidan responded on Twitter.







Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal fires director of Islamic TV channel over Brotherhood ties

RIYADH, SAUDI ARABIA &#8211; Saudi billionaire Prince Alwaleed bin Talal has fired the director of an Islamic TV channel for his role as the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Kuwait.

He wrote Sunday on his Twitter account that he sacked Tarek Al-Suwaidan "for admitting he belongs to the Brotherhood terrorist movement."

Al-Suwaidan, a Kuwaiti, was the director general of Al-Resalah channel, which belongs to Alwaleed's Rotana Group &#8212; a large pan-Arab media conglomerate based in Riyadh.

Al-Suwaidan has sharply criticized Egypt's military-backed government and voiced support for deposed President Mohammed Morsi on his Twitter account.

Saudi King Abdullah, whose country has pledged $5 billion in aid to Egypt's interim leaders, supported Cairo's crackdown on the Brotherhood, saying the kingdom stood by Egypt's fight against "terrorism and strife."

Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal fires director of Islamic TV channel over Brotherhood ties | Fox News


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## agentny17

islamrules said:


> @Mosamania
> no comment !!
> 
> @agentny17
> 
> *for every pharaon there is a Moses*


You sound defeated, what happened ?!! Don't give up. Keep fighting


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## islamrules

Egyptian miltary Generals meetings with Zionist generals 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1387058348187984


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## islamrules

from Turkey

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## islamrules




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## iranigirl2

*Islamists Killed While in Custody, Egypt Confirms*


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/19/w...porters-vow-to-defy-egypts-military.html?_r=0


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## Jihad_

24 terrorist-soldiers killed in north Sinai this morning.


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## iranigirl2

Jihad_ said:


> 24 terrorist-soldiers killed in north Sinai this morning.



terrorist-soldiers ????


hm.....


source?


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## Jihad_

iranigirl2 said:


> terrorist-soldiers ????
> 
> 
> hm.....
> 
> 
> source?



Sorry, only now, an article is written about it. Yeah terror soldiers, like those Assad thugs.


Source: Dozens of Egyptian policemen killed in North Sinai blast 




> An army source states suspected militants killed 24 Egyptian army troops in ambush in northern Sinai, near Rafah border crossing with Gaza.


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## Mosamania

Jihad_ said:


> Sorry, only now, an article is written about it. Yeah terror soldiers, like those Assad thugs.
> 
> 
> Source: Dozens of Egyptian policemen killed in North Sinai blast



Now 100% of the Egyptians population will stand behind the army. The Egyptian army is something very personal to all Egyptians, you harm one soldier you harm all Egyptians.


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## hussain0216

The egyptian army are murderers they are burning in hell now

They can kill poor muslims with impunity, but at the end of the day when death comes a calling they face judgement either way, so they are well and truley screwed..

Dying in the sinai is the last fo their worries

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## agnosticpunjabi

Most of the Egyptian army are conscripts aren't they? Many of them probably come from religious families too. I can't understand how the soldiers haven't rebelled against their officers yet.

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## iranigirl2

agnosticpunjabi said:


> Most of the Egyptian army are conscripts aren't they? Many of them probably come from religious families too. I can't understand how the soldiers haven't rebelled against their officers yet.





It seems like most people in the army and the police force are secular muslims and Coptic Christians.

Majority of religious muslims wont kill their own or burn their own holy book the Quran.


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## Syrian Lion

Egypt draft constitution may ban religious political parties ? report ? RT News


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## Yzd Khalifa

@Syrian Lion 

Just out of curiosity, are you anti-Morsi or a pro-him?


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## flamer84

islamrules said:


> @Mosamania
> no comment !!
> 
> @agentny17
> 
> for every pharaon there is a Moses




Well,Moses took the jews out of Egypt,let's hope that the next Moses does the same with the MB and they will leave Egypt be at peace


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Jihad_ said:


> 24 terrorist-soldiers killed in north Sinai this morning.


they were unarmed they were returning from sainai to their families we will have our revenge be sure of that 
after all there is no greater glory than giving your life to your country

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## hussain0216

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> they were unarmed they were returning from sainai to their families we will have our revenge be sure of that
> after all there is no greater glory than giving your life to your country



Your country dosent give you eternal salavation, they have killed innocent muslims, forsaken God for nationalism..


Now lets see what nationalism will bring them on judgment day



Mahmoud_EGY said:


> they were unarmed they were returning from sainai to their families we will have our revenge be sure of that
> after all there is no greater glory than giving your life to your country





Unarmed ?????????

So were the thousands of innocent muslims the egyptian army has murdered


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## Hussein

Mosamania said:


> Now 100% of the Egyptians population will stand behind the army. The Egyptian army is something very personal to all Egyptians, *you harm one soldier you harm all Egyptians.*


don't exagerate ...

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## Mozambique Drill

RIP Egyptian soldiers.

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## Algeria

Mosamania said:


> Yessss. This is excellent news, one of the best I heard in a long time.
> 
> Now these scholars will be taken out like flies and the Kingdom will push a Liberal hardliner approach finally. These bearded scum will soon eat dirt.


Haha you funny.. maybe start with allowing females to drive before any" hardline liberal approach". Your country enforces total sharia inside the desert and funds kuffar and mass-muslim killers like Sisi with Billions outside its borders. 
So your government is western slave hypocrite if you don't mind me saying.

The reason why alsauds are terrified of the brotherhood is because they are their biggest threat. ANY election held in your desert will result in total Islamist victory and that's why they have to destroy them to survive.


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## Syrian Lion

Yzd Khalifa said:


> @Syrian Lion
> 
> Just out of curiosity, are you anti-Morsi or a pro-him?


I'm always with the people, therefore I'm with the Egyptian people, if Egyptians wanted Morsi, he would have stayed, however Egyptians wanted Morsi gone...thus he is gone...

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## Arabian Legend

Syrian Lion said:


> I'm always with the people, therefore I'm with the Egyptian people, if Egyptians wanted Morsi, he would have stayed, however Egyptians wanted Morsi gone...thus he is gone...



Why don't you support you own brethren then against the tyrant Assad?


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## Jihad_

Arabian Legend said:


> Why don't you support you own brethren then against the tyrant Assad?



He's a christian siding with Assad.


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## Jihad_

Since democracy got butchered and raped, just make him president allready. 



> Mubarak&#8217;s lawyer says expects former Egyptian president to be freed this week after prosecutor clears him in corruption case.


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## Ceylal

Arabian Legend said:


> Why don't you support *you own* brethren then against the tyrant Assad?


He is supporting his own...Assad was one of them...He is as we are against the intrusion of wahabi lab technicians that are destroying the Syrian fiber.



Jihad_ said:


> He's a* christian* siding with Assad.



What religion has to do with his opinions..after all both of them are Syrians, and what concerns one concerns the other.

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## Ceylal

agnosticpunjabi said:


> Most of the Egyptian army are conscripts aren't they? Many of them probably come from religious families too. I can't understand how the soldiers haven't rebelled against their officers yet.


That what happens when you bring the military to do police job. After saying that, don't think for one second that the MB's are angels...MB's created the mayhem to draw the Egyptian army in the fight. They wanted blood in her hand and they got it...Sad that the Egyptian army fell for it..





















*the picture that went around the world.*






*The arab league between supporters, neutrals and against the Army...*






Green pro morsi
purple pro army
shadded..divided
Gray neutral

C..Shia influence

S sunni inluence.

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## Jihad_

If such a huge majority of Egyptians are against the Brotherhood what are they worried about? They obviously are not going to get many seats in parliament in another election are they? Or is it the fear that they might?


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## Mozambique Drill

Jihad_ said:


> If such a huge majority of Egyptians are against the Brotherhood what are they worried about? They obviously are not going to get many seats in parliament in another election are they? Or is it the fear that they might?



Why are you so desperate for religion to be political?

Why can't you live in a country where the government runs the country without religion, and the individual citizens choose whether they want to pray 5 times a day and cover from head to toe?

Why do you have to IMPOSE and SUBJUGATE and TELL everyone what to do?

Why are you so desperate for a MUSLIM government?

You're so backwards that dogs are starting to catch up with you in intellect and social modernity.

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## Jihad_

Mozambique Drill said:


> Why do you have to IMPOSE and SUBJUGATE and TELL everyone what to do?



It's not imposing if the majority votes for it, tard.

Why are YOU trying to IMPOSe your ideology?


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## Naifov

Mozambique Drill said:


> Why are you so desperate for religion to be political?
> 
> Why can't you live in a country where the government runs the country without religion, and the individual citizens choose whether they want to pray 5 times a day and cover from head to toe?
> 
> Why do you have to IMPOSE and SUBJUGATE and TELL everyone what to do?
> 
> Why are you so desperate for a MUSLIM government?
> 
> You're so backwards that dogs are starting to catch up with you in intellect and social modernity.



You know that I would respect this from anybody else, I can't respect this from someone whose country is found and raised based on nothing else but religious reasons. You can't **** a shitter, Don't proclame Secularism when you are holding a nationality of Religion, Murder, Theft and deception.

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## Jihad_

Naifov said:


> you are holding a nationality of Religion, Murder, Theft and deception.



And etnic racism, apartheid, occupation, subjugation,...


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## Mozambique Drill

Jihad_ said:


> It's not imposing if the majority votes for it, tard.
> 
> Why are YOU trying to IMPOSe your ideology?



Impose what, numbnuts?

I'm not the one here telling Egyptians what to do and calling for Jihad.

The MB won a narrow victory. I didn't complain. It was a fair result even if they were more organised and facing a fractured opposition.

The Egyptians then spoke and wanted the MB out. 

But here you are from the other side of the world supporting a Muslim party in Egypt just because you happen to have a beard.



Naifov said:


> You know that I would respect this from anybody else, I can't respect this from someone whose country is found and raised based on nothing else but religious reasons. You can't **** a shitter, Don't proclame Secularism when you are holding a nationality of Religion, Murder, Theft and deception.



Listen to the head & hand chopper talking about religion.

The first country anyone ever mentions when they talk about crazy religious states, is Saudi.

The reason Jews need a state, is because of scumbag ideologies like yours, takfiri.


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## hussain0216

Your jew state needs to be formed somewhere else, its ridiculous watching some of the israelis claming to be middle eastern.


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## Naifov

> Listen to the head & hand chopper talking about religion.
> 
> The first country anyone ever mentions when they talk about crazy religious states, is Saudi.
> 
> The reason Jews need a state, is because of scumbag ideologies like yours, takfiri.



Oh phukc, I'm talking to an idiot again  

listen son, YOU Can't preach secularism to other people since YOU Are living in a land that YOU didn't originally come from. YOU Built This state out of religious reasons, thus YOU can't preach secularism until YOU drop your passport and get the phuck out of palestine  

Me on the other hand, I'm forced to live in a chop chop state since I'm from this land and my people didn't kill others to get this land and they hadn't built it to be for all the chop chop muslims across the world. 



Your reply is nothing but complete Idiocy and trolling to some extension.

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## Mozambique Drill

Naifov said:


> Oh phukc, I'm talking to an idiot again
> 
> listen son, YOU Can't preach secularism to other people since YOU Are living in a land that YOU didn't originally come from. YOU Built This state out of religious reasons, thus YOU can't preach secularism until YOU drop your passport and get the phuck out of palestine
> 
> Me on the other hand, I'm forced to live in a chop chop state since I'm from this land and my people didn't kill others to get this land and they hadn't built it to be for all the chop chop muslims across the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Your reply is nothing but complete Idiocy and trolling to some extension.




Israel is a secular state, you sub-human, cave-dwelling, hand-chopping, women-stoning medieval takfiri.


Jews have lived on that land for 2,000 years before your invented cult even showed their face in the region.

YOU are BABIES in the region compared to Jews. The NEWLY arrived guests compared to Jews.

And you have the audacity to shout at them from your cave telling them to move?

How about your Arabian entity go back to where they came from in Arabia? what are they doing near Israel? Jerusalem is not in Arabia. It's 750+ miles away from Mecca.

What are your tribe doing out of your borders?


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## Jihad_

Mozambique Drill said:


> Israel is a secular state, you sub-human, cave-dwelling, hand-chopping, women-stoning medieval takfiri.
> 
> 
> Jews have lived on that land for 2,000 years before your invented cult even showed their face in the region.
> 
> YOU are BABIES in the region compared to Jews. The NEWLY arrived guests compared to Jews.
> 
> And you have the audacity to shout at them from your cave telling them to move?
> 
> How about your Arabian entity go back to where they came from in Arabia? what are they doing near Israel? Jerusalem is not in Arabia. It's 750+ miles away from Mecca.
> 
> What are your tribe doing out of your borders?


----------



## hussain0216

Islam is a religion for all, 20% of israel is muslim and growing, you are surrounded by muslims 

And the muslims of the world are increasing, we are gonna get you by sheer weight of numbers

Take the peacefull option, end the occupation of palestine and go back to Europe, if anything Germany should have given up land to form your israel.


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## Hussein

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> - &#1608;&#1578;&#1581;&#1583;&#1579; &#1575;&#1604;&#1601;&#1585;&#1610;&#1602; &#1571;&#1608;&#1604; / &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1610;&#1587;&#1609; &#1593;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1601;&#1585;&#1589; &#1575;&#1604;&#1590;&#1575;&#1574;&#1593;&#1577; &#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1592;&#1575;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1575;&#1576;&#1602; &#1608;&#1575;&#1578;&#1576;&#1575;&#1593;&#1607; &#1582;&#1604;&#1575;&#1604; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1575;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1575;&#1590;&#1609; &#1604;&#1578;&#1593;&#1583;&#1610;&#1604; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1587;&#1575;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1610;&#1575;&#1587;&#1609; &#1608;&#1573;&#1610;&#1580;&#1575;&#1583; &#1605;&#1587;&#1575;&#1581;&#1577; &#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1578;&#1601;&#1575;&#1607;&#1605; &#1576;&#1610;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1592;&#1575;&#1605; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1608;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1610;&#1575;&#1587;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1585;&#1571;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1575;&#1605; &#1605;&#1606; &#1582;&#1604;&#1575;&#1604; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1583;&#1610;&#1583; &#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1602;&#1578;&#1585;&#1581;&#1575;&#1578; &#1575;&#1604;&#1578;&#1609; &#1590;&#1575;&#1593;&#1578; &#1571;&#1605;&#1575;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1578;&#1593;&#1606;&#1578; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1589;&#1604;&#1601; &#1608;&#1593;&#1583;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1573;&#1587;&#1578;&#1580;&#1575;&#1576;&#1577; &#1604;&#1571;&#1609; &#1606;&#1589;&#1581; &#1581;&#1602;&#1610;&#1602;&#1609; &#1610;&#1582;&#1585;&#1580; &#1575;&#1604;&#1576;&#1604;&#1575;&#1583; &#1605;&#1606; &#1583;&#1575;&#1574;&#1585;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1586;&#1605;&#1575;&#1578; &#1548; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1573;&#1593;&#1578;&#1602;&#1575;&#1583; &#1576;&#1578;&#1570;&#1605;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1580;&#1605;&#1610;&#1593; &#1608;&#1571;&#1606;&#1607;&#1605; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1581;&#1602; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1576;&#1610;&#1606; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1576;&#1575;&#1602;&#1609; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1590;&#1604;&#1575;&#1604; .
> - &#1608;&#1571;&#1603;&#1583; &#1571;&#1606;&#1606;&#1575; &#1571;&#1593;&#1591;&#1610;&#1606;&#1575; &#1601;&#1585;&#1589;&#1575;&#1611; &#1603;&#1579;&#1610;&#1585;&#1577; &#1604;&#1604;&#1602;&#1575;&#1589;&#1609; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1575;&#1606;&#1609; &#1604;&#1604;&#1605;&#1588;&#1575;&#1585;&#1603;&#1577; &#1604;&#1573;&#1606;&#1607;&#1575;&#1569; &#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1586;&#1605;&#1577; &#1576;&#1588;&#1603;&#1604; &#1587;&#1604;&#1605;&#1609; &#1603;&#1575;&#1605;&#1604; &#1608;&#1583;&#1593;&#1608;&#1577; &#1571;&#1578;&#1576;&#1575;&#1593; &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1592;&#1575;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1575;&#1576;&#1602; &#1604;&#1604;&#1605;&#1588;&#1575;&#1585;&#1603;&#1577; &#1601;&#1609; &#1573;&#1593;&#1575;&#1583;&#1577; &#1576;&#1606;&#1575;&#1569; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1587;&#1575;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1610;&#1605;&#1602;&#1585;&#1575;&#1591;&#1609; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1573;&#1606;&#1582;&#1585;&#1575;&#1591; &#1601;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1605;&#1604;&#1610;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1610;&#1575;&#1587;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1601;&#1602;&#1575;&#1611; &#1604;&#1582;&#1575;&#1585;&#1591;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1587;&#1578;&#1602;&#1576;&#1604; &#1576;&#1583;&#1604;&#1575;&#1611; &#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1608;&#1575;&#1580;&#1607;&#1577; &#1608;&#1578;&#1583;&#1605;&#1610;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1608;&#1604;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1589;&#1585;&#1610;&#1577; .
> - &#1608;&#1571;&#1603;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1601;&#1585;&#1610;&#1602; &#1571;&#1608;&#1604; / &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1610;&#1587;&#1609; &#1571;&#1606; &#1605;&#1606; &#1610;&#1602;&#1608;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1608;&#1604;&#1577; &#1608;&#1610;&#1585;&#1610;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1581;&#1601;&#1575;&#1592; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1605;&#1589;&#1575;&#1604;&#1581;&#1607;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1575; &#1604;&#1575;&#1576;&#1583; &#1571;&#1606; &#1610;&#1602;&#1576;&#1604; &#1576;&#1573;&#1587;&#1578;&#1601;&#1578;&#1575;&#1569; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1576;&#1602;&#1575;&#1572;&#1607; &#1575;&#1605; &#1585;&#1601;&#1590;&#1607; &#1605;&#1606; &#1602;&#1576;&#1604; &#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1593;&#1576; &#1548; &#1608;&#1578;&#1587;&#1575;&#1569;&#1604; &#1587;&#1610;&#1575;&#1583;&#1578;&#1607; &#1607;&#1604; &#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1608;&#1575;&#1580;&#1576; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1587;&#1574;&#1608;&#1604;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1605;&#1575;&#1606;&#1577; &#1578;&#1602;&#1578;&#1590;&#1609; &#1587;&#1602;&#1608;&#1591; &#1575;&#1604;&#1576;&#1604;&#1575;&#1583; &#1608;&#1578;&#1594;&#1610;&#1610;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1608;&#1575;&#1602;&#1593; &#1576;&#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1608;&#1577; &#1608;&#1578;&#1585;&#1608;&#1610;&#1593; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1608;&#1575;&#1591;&#1606;&#1610;&#1606; &#1606;&#1578;&#1610;&#1580;&#1577; &#1578;&#1589;&#1608;&#1585; &#1582;&#1575;&#1591;&#1574; &#1604;&#1605;&#1601;&#1607;&#1608;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1573;&#1601;&#1587;&#1575;&#1583; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1573;&#1589;&#1604;&#1575;&#1581; &#1601;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1585;&#1590; &#1548; &#1605;&#1572;&#1603;&#1583;&#1575;&#1611; &#1571;&#1606; &#1605;&#1606; &#1610;&#1578;&#1589;&#1608;&#1585; &#1571;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1606;&#1601; &#1587;&#1610;&#1585;&#1603;&#1593; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1608;&#1604;&#1577; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1589;&#1585;&#1610;&#1610;&#1606; &#1610;&#1580;&#1576; &#1571;&#1606; &#1610;&#1585;&#1575;&#1580;&#1593; &#1606;&#1601;&#1587;&#1607; &#1548; &#1608;&#1571;&#1606;&#1606;&#1575; &#1604;&#1606; &#1606;&#1587;&#1603;&#1578; &#1571;&#1605;&#1575;&#1605; &#1578;&#1583;&#1605;&#1610;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1576;&#1604;&#1575;&#1583; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1576;&#1575;&#1583; &#1608;&#1581;&#1585;&#1602; &#1575;&#1604;&#1608;&#1591;&#1606; &#1608;&#1578;&#1585;&#1608;&#1610;&#1593; &#1575;&#1604;&#1570;&#1605;&#1606;&#1610;&#1606; &#1608;&#1606;&#1602;&#1604; &#1589;&#1608;&#1585;&#1577; &#1582;&#1575;&#1591;&#1574;&#1577; &#1604;&#1604;&#1573;&#1593;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1594;&#1585;&#1576;&#1609; &#1576;&#1608;&#1580;&#1608;&#1583; &#1573;&#1602;&#1578;&#1578;&#1575;&#1604; &#1583;&#1575;&#1582;&#1604; &#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1575;&#1585;&#1593; .
> - &#1608;&#1575;&#1588;&#1575;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1601;&#1585;&#1610;&#1602; &#1571;&#1608;&#1604; / &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1610;&#1587;&#1610; &#1573;&#1604;&#1609; &#1571;&#1606; &#1581;&#1580;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1578;&#1581;&#1583;&#1610;&#1575;&#1578; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1610;&#1575;&#1587;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1573;&#1602;&#1578;&#1589;&#1575;&#1583;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1605;&#1606;&#1610;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1578;&#1609; &#1578;&#1605;&#1585; &#1576;&#1607;&#1575; &#1605;&#1589;&#1585; &#1571;&#1603;&#1576;&#1585; &#1605;&#1606; &#1602;&#1583;&#1585;&#1577; &#1605;&#1589;&#1585; &#1603;&#1583;&#1608;&#1604;&#1577; &#1608;&#1604;&#1603;&#1606;&#1607;&#1575; &#1604;&#1610;&#1587;&#1578; &#1571;&#1603;&#1576;&#1585; &#1605;&#1606; &#1602;&#1583;&#1585;&#1575;&#1578; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1589;&#1585;&#1610;&#1608;&#1606; &#1603;&#1588;&#1593;&#1576; &#1608;&#1608;&#1591;&#1606; &#1548; &#1608;&#1571;&#1606; &#1605;&#1589;&#1585; &#1571;&#1605;&#1575;&#1606;&#1577; &#1601;&#1609; &#1585;&#1602;&#1576;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1580;&#1605;&#1610;&#1593; &#1608;&#1610;&#1580;&#1576; &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1606;&#1575; &#1603;&#1580;&#1610;&#1588; &#1608;&#1588;&#1585;&#1591;&#1577; &#1571;&#1606; &#1606;&#1581;&#1601;&#1592; &#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1605;&#1575;&#1606;&#1577; &#1608;&#1606;&#1581;&#1605;&#1609; &#1605;&#1589;&#1585; &#1608;&#1588;&#1593;&#1576;&#1607;&#1575; .
> - &#1608;&#1571;&#1603;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1601;&#1585;&#1610;&#1602; &#1571;&#1608;&#1604; / &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1610;&#1587;&#1610; &#1571;&#1606;&#1607; &#1604;&#1605; &#1610;&#1578;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1578;&#1606;&#1587;&#1610;&#1602; &#1571;&#1608; &#1575;&#1604;&#1578;&#1593;&#1575;&#1608;&#1606; &#1582;&#1575;&#1585;&#1580;&#1610;&#1575;&#1611; &#1605;&#1593; &#1571;&#1609; &#1583;&#1608;&#1604;&#1577; &#1601;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1571;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1589;&#1585;&#1609; &#1608;&#1571;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1589;&#1604;&#1581;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1575; &#1604;&#1604;&#1608;&#1591;&#1606; &#1578;&#1602;&#1578;&#1590;&#1609; &#1608;&#1590;&#1593; &#1605;&#1589;&#1604;&#1581;&#1577; &#1605;&#1589;&#1585; &#1608;&#1571;&#1605;&#1606;&#1607;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1608;&#1605;&#1609; &#1601;&#1608;&#1602; &#1603;&#1604; &#1573;&#1593;&#1578;&#1576;&#1575;&#1585; &#1608;&#1602;&#1583;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1603;&#1585; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1578;&#1602;&#1583;&#1610;&#1585; &#1604;&#1603;&#1604; &#1605;&#1606; &#1602;&#1583;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1608;&#1606; &#1604;&#1605;&#1589;&#1585; &#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1588;&#1602;&#1575;&#1569; &#1601;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1593;&#1608;&#1583;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1573;&#1605;&#1575;&#1585;&#1575;&#1578; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1603;&#1608;&#1610;&#1578; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1585;&#1583;&#1606; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1576;&#1581;&#1585;&#1610;&#1606; &#1605;&#1572;&#1603;&#1583;&#1575;&#1611; &#1571;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1593;&#1576; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1589;&#1585;&#1609; &#1604;&#1606; &#1610;&#1606;&#1587;&#1609; &#1604;&#1607;&#1605; &#1584;&#1604;&#1603; .
> - &#1608;&#1608;&#1580;&#1607; &#1585;&#1587;&#1575;&#1604;&#1577; &#1604;&#1571;&#1606;&#1589;&#1575;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1592;&#1575;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1575;&#1576;&#1602; &#1571;&#1606; &#1605;&#1589;&#1585; &#1578;&#1578;&#1587;&#1593; &#1604;&#1604;&#1580;&#1605;&#1610;&#1593; &#1608;&#1571;&#1606;&#1606;&#1575; &#1581;&#1585;&#1610;&#1589;&#1608;&#1606; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1603;&#1604; &#1606;&#1602;&#1591;&#1577; &#1583;&#1605; &#1605;&#1589;&#1585;&#1609; &#1608;&#1591;&#1575;&#1604;&#1576;&#1607;&#1605; &#1576;&#1605;&#1585;&#1575;&#1580;&#1593;&#1577; &#1605;&#1608;&#1575;&#1602;&#1601;&#1607;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1608;&#1591;&#1606;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1571;&#1606; &#1610;&#1593;&#1608;&#1575; &#1580;&#1610;&#1583;&#1575;&#1611; &#1571;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1585;&#1593;&#1610;&#1577; &#1605;&#1604;&#1603; &#1604;&#1604;&#1588;&#1593;&#1576; &#1610;&#1605;&#1606;&#1581;&#1607;&#1575; &#1604;&#1605;&#1606; &#1610;&#1588;&#1575;&#1569; &#1608;&#1610;&#1587;&#1604;&#1576;&#1607;&#1575; &#1605;&#1578;&#1609; &#1610;&#1588;&#1575;&#1569; &#1548; &#1608;&#1571;&#1606; &#1581;&#1605;&#1575;&#1610;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1608;&#1604;&#1577; &#1587;&#1578;&#1576;&#1602;&#1609; &#1571;&#1605;&#1575;&#1606;&#1577; &#1601;&#1609; &#1571;&#1593;&#1606;&#1575;&#1602; &#1575;&#1604;&#1580;&#1610;&#1588; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1585;&#1591;&#1577; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1593;&#1576; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1589;&#1585;&#1609; .
> - &#1608;&#1571;&#1603;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1610;&#1583;/ &#1605;&#1581;&#1605;&#1583; &#1575;&#1576;&#1585;&#1575;&#1607;&#1610;&#1605; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1602;&#1608;&#1577; &#1571;&#1608;&#1575;&#1589;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1578;&#1585;&#1575;&#1576;&#1591; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1578;&#1593;&#1575;&#1608;&#1606; &#1576;&#1610;&#1606; &#1608;&#1586;&#1575;&#1585;&#1578;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1601;&#1575;&#1593; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1575;&#1582;&#1604;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1580;&#1607;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1603;&#1576;&#1610;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1584;&#1609; &#1610;&#1602;&#1583;&#1605;&#1607; &#1585;&#1580;&#1575;&#1604; &#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1608;&#1575;&#1578; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1587;&#1604;&#1581;&#1577; &#1608;&#1607;&#1610;&#1574;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1585;&#1591;&#1577; &#1576;&#1603;&#1575;&#1601;&#1577; &#1571;&#1580;&#1607;&#1586;&#1578;&#1607;&#1575; &#1601;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1581;&#1601;&#1575;&#1592; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1575;&#1582;&#1604;&#1609; &#1608;&#1576;&#1579; &#1575;&#1604;&#1591;&#1605;&#1571;&#1606;&#1610;&#1606;&#1577; &#1576;&#1610;&#1606; &#1571;&#1576;&#1606;&#1575;&#1569; &#1575;&#1604;&#1608;&#1591;&#1606; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1581;&#1601;&#1575;&#1592; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1571;&#1605;&#1606; &#1608;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605;&#1577; &#1588;&#1593;&#1576; &#1605;&#1589;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1592;&#1610;&#1605; .
> - &#1608;&#1571;&#1588;&#1575;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1608;&#1575;&#1569; &#1571; &#1581; / &#1578;&#1608;&#1581;&#1610;&#1583; &#1578;&#1608;&#1601;&#1610;&#1602; &#1602;&#1575;&#1574;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1606;&#1591;&#1602;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1585;&#1603;&#1586;&#1610;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1587;&#1603;&#1585;&#1610;&#1577; &#1571;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1608;&#1575;&#1578; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1587;&#1604;&#1581;&#1577; &#1604;&#1575; &#1610;&#1593;&#1606;&#1610;&#1607;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1575; &#1588;&#1593;&#1576; &#1605;&#1589;&#1585; &#1608;&#1581;&#1605;&#1575;&#1610;&#1577; &#1605;&#1603;&#1578;&#1587;&#1576;&#1575;&#1578;&#1607; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1573;&#1606;&#1581;&#1610;&#1575;&#1586; &#1604;&#1573;&#1585;&#1575;&#1583;&#1578;&#1607; &#1573;&#1583;&#1585;&#1575;&#1603;&#1575;&#1611; &#1605;&#1606;&#1607;&#1575; &#1576;&#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1582;&#1575;&#1591;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1572;&#1579;&#1585;&#1577; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1608;&#1605;&#1609; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1573;&#1587;&#1578;&#1602;&#1585;&#1575;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1575;&#1582;&#1604;&#1609; &#1608;&#1605;&#1587;&#1578;&#1602;&#1576;&#1604; &#1605;&#1589;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1581;&#1583;&#1610;&#1579;&#1577; .
> - &#1608;&#1578;&#1590;&#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1602;&#1575;&#1569; &#1593;&#1585;&#1590; &#1601;&#1610;&#1604;&#1605; &#1578;&#1587;&#1580;&#1610;&#1604;&#1609; &#1578;&#1606;&#1575;&#1608;&#1604; &#1593;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1580;&#1607;&#1608;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1605;&#1606;&#1610;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1588;&#1578;&#1585;&#1603;&#1577; &#1604;&#1604;&#1602;&#1608;&#1575;&#1578; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1587;&#1604;&#1581;&#1577; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1585;&#1591;&#1577; &#1601;&#1609; &#1578;&#1571;&#1605;&#1610;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1580;&#1576;&#1607;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1575;&#1582;&#1604;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1578;&#1589;&#1583;&#1609; &#1604;&#1604;&#1573;&#1585;&#1607;&#1575;&#1576; &#1601;&#1609; &#1587;&#1610;&#1606;&#1575;&#1569; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1581;&#1601;&#1575;&#1592; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1608;&#1605;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1589;&#1585;&#1609; .
> - &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1587;&#1578;&#1575;&#1584; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1603;&#1578;&#1608;&#1585;/ &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1580;&#1605;&#1593;&#1577; &#1605;&#1601;&#1578;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1610;&#1575;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1589;&#1585;&#1610;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1575;&#1576;&#1602; &#1605;&#1581;&#1575;&#1590;&#1585;&#1577; &#1571;&#1588;&#1575;&#1585; &#1601;&#1610;&#1607;&#1575; &#1573;&#1604;&#1609; &#1571;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1585;&#1587;&#1608;&#1604; &#1575;&#1604;&#1603;&#1585;&#1610;&#1605; &#1602;&#1583; &#1571;&#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1605;&#1606; &#1588;&#1571;&#1606; &#1580;&#1606;&#1583; &#1605;&#1589;&#1585; &#1608;&#1576;&#1588;&#1585; &#1576;&#1589;&#1605;&#1608;&#1583;&#1607;&#1605; &#1601;&#1609; &#1605;&#1608;&#1575;&#1580;&#1607;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1601;&#1578;&#1606; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1578;&#1581;&#1583;&#1610;&#1575;&#1578; &#1548; &#1608;&#1578;&#1581;&#1605;&#1604;&#1607;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1587;&#1574;&#1608;&#1604;&#1610;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1578;&#1575;&#1585;&#1610;&#1582;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1608;&#1591;&#1606;&#1610;&#1577; &#1601;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1581;&#1601;&#1575;&#1592; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1578;&#1605;&#1575;&#1587;&#1603; &#1571;&#1585;&#1603;&#1575;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1608;&#1604;&#1577; &#1608;&#1581;&#1605;&#1575;&#1610;&#1577; &#1571;&#1576;&#1606;&#1575;&#1574;&#1607;&#1575; &#1548; &#1608;&#1571;&#1606;&#1607;&#1605; &#1601;&#1609; &#1585;&#1576;&#1575;&#1591; &#1573;&#1604;&#1609; &#1610;&#1608;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1610;&#1575;&#1605;&#1577; &#1576;&#1601;&#1590;&#1604; &#1576;&#1605;&#1575; &#1610;&#1581;&#1605;&#1604;&#1608;&#1607; &#1605;&#1606; &#1602;&#1610;&#1605; &#1608;&#1605;&#1576;&#1575;&#1583;&#1574; &#1587;&#1575;&#1605;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1578;&#1590;&#1581;&#1610;&#1575;&#1578;&#1607;&#1605; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1587;&#1578;&#1605;&#1585;&#1577; &#1601;&#1609; &#1587;&#1576;&#1610;&#1604; &#1575;&#1604;&#1608;&#1591;&#1606; .
> - &#1581;&#1590;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1602;&#1575;&#1569; &#1575;&#1604;&#1601;&#1585;&#1610;&#1602; / &#1589;&#1583;&#1602;&#1609; &#1589;&#1576;&#1581;&#1609; &#1585;&#1574;&#1610;&#1587; &#1571;&#1585;&#1603;&#1575;&#1606; &#1581;&#1585;&#1576; &#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1608;&#1575;&#1578; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1587;&#1604;&#1581;&#1577; &#1608;&#1602;&#1575;&#1583;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1601;&#1585;&#1593; &#1575;&#1604;&#1585;&#1574;&#1610;&#1587;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1593;&#1583;&#1583; &#1605;&#1606; &#1602;&#1575;&#1583;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1608;&#1575;&#1578; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1587;&#1604;&#1581;&#1577; &#1608;&#1602;&#1610;&#1575;&#1583;&#1575;&#1578; &#1608;&#1586;&#1575;&#1585;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1575;&#1582;&#1604;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1593;&#1583;&#1583; &#1605;&#1606; &#1602;&#1575;&#1583;&#1577; &#1608;&#1590;&#1576;&#1575;&#1591; &#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1608;&#1575;&#1578; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1587;&#1604;&#1581;&#1577; &#1608;&#1607;&#1610;&#1574;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1585;&#1591;&#1577; .&#8236;


https://www.facebook.com/Egyptian.Defense.Minister


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## Mozambique Drill

hussain0216 said:


> Islam is a religion for all, 20% of israel is muslim and growing, you are surrounded by muslims
> 
> And the muslims of the world are increasing, we are gonna get you by sheer weight of numbers
> 
> Take the peacefull option, end the occupation of palestine and go back to Europe, if anything Germany should have given up land to form your israel.



Your tribe are more likely to be thrown out of the UK before that happens.

Tensions running high. I don't think I've met a single person recently that wants your lot in the UK.


----------



## hussain0216

Mate, people have been saying that about jews for thousands of years..

Look at the pogroms and holocausts that have been intiated just to get rid of you people.

If you just tried to stop being pricks and stealing and trying to to screw innocent people over you may just be left in peace. Instead white europeans slaughter 6 million+ of you and your first inclination is to screw over the poor Palestinians 



If one holocause happens to your tribe then its the killers fault, if many holocausts happen to your people then its your fault, 
You must obviously be doing something wrong


----------



## Mozambique Drill

hussain0216 said:


> If one holocause happens to your tribe then its the killers fault, if many holocausts happen to your people then its your fault,
> You must obviously be doing something wrong



Using your logic (and I use the term 'logic' very loosely because you're a knuckle-dragging Neanderthal) the 'palestinians' who keep getting stabbed in the back by everyone, deserve it.

LOL

Go play with your crayons now Abdul, you're done here.


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## hussain0216

Unfortunatly for the poor palestinians the jew snake is trying to devour them....

Everyone from the russians to the germans realised what the jews were like. the Palestinians unfortunatly are too weak to fight you off, 

So we support them, in time the muslims of israel will grow as will muslims everywhere around you, our children will be taught to distrust your word and suspect your nature always


Your done for, make it easy on yourselves, free Palestine


----------



## Mozambique Drill

hussain0216 said:


> in time the muslims of israel will grow as will muslims everywhere around you,



I wonder if they will join your Jihad, as you're planning.

Ulfat, an Arab-Israeli woman athlete seeking peace - YouTube

First Israeli Arab woman plastic surgeon - YouTube

First female Arab physician to head medical department in Israel - YouTube

LOL.

 
I wonder if these 'palestinians' who recently were allowed into Israel for Ramadan, want Jihad.







As I said, you as a so-called 'British' Muslim are in far more danger of finally pissing off the British than anything happening to Israel from within.


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## hussain0216

Mate they can be secular, liberal, conservative or even israel loving (not that I accept any of your jew propaganda, jew speaks with forked tongue as the native americans used to say)

Every one of them is a nail in israels coffin, the more israeli muslims the better,,, I dont even care if they are secular there just needs to be more


----------



## doublemaster

Hussein said:


> well everyone knows that in Iran
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/20/world/middleeast/20iran.html?_r=0
> 
> 
> next time you will compare to Mongolia or Sudan ? try to be smart
> Egypt and Iran are very different countries (army, leader, and so)



Correct...I know it isnt that way in Iran...I just said so because lesson from egypt was that.
Anyways IRGC is not in ur side  You have exact opposite scenario in Iran.....Now i can bet Iran really did take correct mesure..after 1979.


----------



## iranigirl2

*Israel Escalating Efforts to Shape Allies&#8217; Strategy*


JERUSALEM &#8212; Israel plans this week to intensify its diplomatic campaign urging Europe and the United States to support the military-backed government in Egypt despite its deadly crackdown on Islamist protesters, according to a senior Israeli official involved in the effort. 



The official, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of an edict from the prime minister not to discuss the Egyptian crisis, said Israeli ambassadors in Washington, London, Paris, Berlin, Brussels and other capitals would lobby foreign ministers. At the same time, leaders here will press the case with diplomats from abroad that the military is the only hope to prevent further chaos in Cairo. 

With the European Union planning an urgent review of its relations with Egypt in a meeting Monday, the message, in part, is that concerns about democracy and human rights should take a back seat to stability and security because of Egypt&#8217;s size and strategic importance. 

&#8220;We&#8217;re trying to talk to key actors, key countries, and share our view that you may not like what you see, but what&#8217;s the alternative?&#8221; the official explained. &#8220;If you insist on big principles, then you will miss the essential &#8212; the essential being putting Egypt back on track at whatever cost. First, save what you can, and then deal with democracy and freedom and so on. 

&#8220;At this point,&#8221; the official added, &#8220;it&#8217;s army or anarchy.&#8221; 

Israeli leaders have made no public statements and have refused interviews since Wednesday&#8217;s brutal clearing of two Muslim Brotherhood protest encampments. But even as the death toll climbed in ensuing gunfights in mosques and on streets, officials spoke frequently to members of Congress, officials at the Pentagon and State Department, and European diplomats. 

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who convened an emergency meeting of his inner cabinet Friday regarding Egypt, has not spoken since the crackdown to President Obama, who on Thursday rebuked the Egyptian government by canceling joint military exercises set for next month. But Mr. Netanyahu has discussed the situation with Secretary of State John Kerry; Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who was in Israel last week; and a visiting delegation of more than two dozen Republicans from Congress, led by the majority leader, Eric Cantor of Virginia. 

General Dempsey and Israel&#8217;s military chief have also consulted on Egypt, as have Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel and his Israeli counterpart. Michael B. Oren, Israel&#8217;s ambassador to the United States, has been forcefully arguing for sustaining Washington&#8217;s $1.5 billion annual aid to Egypt since the July 3 ouster of President Mohamed Morsi by Egypt&#8217;s military commander, Gen. Abdul-Fattah el-Sisi. 

&#8220;Israel is in a state of diplomatic emergency,&#8221; Alex Fishman, a leading Israeli columnist, wrote in Sunday&#8217;s Yediot Aharonot newspaper. &#8220;It has been waging an almost desperate diplomatic battle in Washington.&#8221; 

While Israel is careful to argue that Egypt is critical to broad Western interests in the Middle East, its motivation is largely parochial: the American aid underpins the 34-year-old peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, so its withdrawal could lead to the unraveling of the agreement. More immediately, Israel is deeply worried that Egypt&#8217;s strife could create more openings for terrorist attacks on its territory from the Sinai Peninsula. 

At the same time, Israeli officials are aware that the aid package is one of the Obama administration&#8217;s biggest potential levers against Egypt&#8217;s military rulers &#8212; and a topic of debate within the White House. 

&#8220;From the Israeli perspective it is security, security and security &#8212; and then other issues,&#8221; said Yoram Meital, a professor of Middle Eastern studies at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev. &#8220;The Obama administration took a stand that has a lot to do with universal values. Of course, killing hundreds of protesters in this brutal way should be condemned. If we study the Israeli perspective, then these universal values are secondary to the top priorities of security and security.&#8221; 

Most Israeli experts on Egypt share the government&#8217;s support for the Sisi government and view Mr. Morsi&#8217;s Islamist Muslim Brotherhood movement as a dangerous threat. But several said Israel&#8217;s diplomatic push was risky because it could promote a backlash in Egypt and across the Arab world and hurt Israel&#8217;s credibility as a democracy. 

&#8220;This is a very big mistake to interfere in what happens in Egypt,&#8221; said Mordechai Kedar, a lecturer at Bar-Ilan University and director of its new Center for the Study of the Middle East and Islam. 

Dr. Kedar invoked an old joke about a lifeguard kicking a boy out of a pool for urinating &#8212; from the diving board. &#8220;You can do things, but do them under the water,&#8221; he said. &#8220;Israel, by supporting explicitly the army, exposes itself to retaliation. Israel should have done things behind the scenes, under the surface, without being associated with any side of the Egyptian problem.&#8221; 

But Eli Shaked, a former Israeli ambassador to Egypt, praised Mr. Netanyahu&#8217;s government for &#8220;acting very discreetly,&#8221; and Yitzhak Levanon, Israel&#8217;s ambassador to Egypt until 2011, said the lobbying had not been aggressive. 

&#8220;We are talking to a lot of friends,&#8221; said Mr. Levanon, who teaches a course on Egypt at the Interdisciplinary Center in Herzliya. &#8220;Pushing? I don&#8217;t think that this is the word. We are expressing what we believe is best for the region.&#8221; 

Mr. Shaked said that unlike the Obama administration and the European Union, Israel did &#8220;not have any illusions about the possibility of a democracy in Egypt.&#8221; 

&#8220;I understand Washington and Europe with their criticism, but there is no alternative to letting the army in Egypt try by force,&#8221; he said. &#8220;We have to choose here not between the good guys and the bad guys &#8212; we don&#8217;t have good guys. It is a situation where you have to choose who is less harmful.&#8221; 

The Israeli official who described the diplomatic campaign acknowledged that Washington&#8217;s suspension of the military exercises and Europe&#8217;s announcement Sunday that it would review its relations with Cairo did not signal success so far. 

&#8220;It&#8217;s very important for us to make certain countries understand the situation as we see it,&#8221; the official said. &#8220;We do that with a sense of urgency. This is something we&#8217;re going to try and share with as many influential countries as we can this week.&#8221; 



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/19/w...aping-allies-actions.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


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## doublemaster

*Egypt's Mubarak cleared in corruption case: Mubarak All set to come out....*

Egypt's Mubarak cleared in corruption case - Middle East - Al Jazeera English


Hosni Mubarak, Egypt's imprisoned former ruler, has been cleared in a corruption case by prosecutors.

Judicial officials told the AP news agency that a court on Monday ordered the 85-year-old be cleared in the case that alleged he embezzled funds for presidential palaces.

Mubarak, who was arrested after his overthrow in 2011, still faces charges in another corruption case where he is accused of accepting gifts from state newspapers, but he has already paid back the value of the gifts.

Mubarak is also awaiting retrial after appeals against his conviction and sentence to life in prison last year over his complicity in the deaths of protesters during the uprising.

Mubarak's lawyer, Fareed el-Deeb, told the Reuters news agency that the second corruption case would be settled swiftly. "All we have left is a simple administrative procedure that should take no more than 48 hours. He should be freed by the end of the week," Deeb told the agency.

Egyptian law does not compel his incarceration while he faces retrial over the protester deaths.

However, judicial sources told the Reuters news agency that he would spend another two weeks behind bars before a final decision was made on the outstanding corruption case against him. 

His release could stir more political tension in Egypt, where at least 850 people, including 70 policemen and soldiers, have been killed since the army-backed interim government forcibly dispersed Muslim Brotherhood sit-ins in Cairo on Wednesday.

Mubarak is being held at Tora prison on the southern outskirts of Cairo, the same facility where leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood are being held after their arrest following the coup against Mubarak's successor, Mohamed Morsi.


----------



## Yzd Khalifa

@agentny17 @Frogman @Mahmoud_EGY @JUBA @Arabian Legend @BLACKEAGLE 
http://www.alarabiya.net/ar/saudi-t...1575;&#1604;&#1601;&#1610;&#1589;&#1604;.html
 Now they can f u c k off

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## islamrules

Mansour Declares " war on Terrorism " officialy in Sinai after meeting with Sisi and his interior minister !!


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## islamrules

police raided the house of a MB, they didn't found him bc they already killed him in Rabia


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## agentny17

Yzd Khalifa said:


> @agentny17 @Frogman @Mahmoud_EGY @JUBA @Arabian Legend @BLACKEAGLE
> http://www.alarabiya.net/ar/saudi-t...1575;&#1604;&#1601;&#1610;&#1589;&#1604;.html
> Now they can f u c k off


Wow, Saudi Arabia is taking this as far as it gets!! Again, this will never be forgotten by the Egyptian people. We appreciate that so much!

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## islamrules

SA, UAE, Kuweit even Bahrain


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## Doritos11

Why does Egypt need financial support from abroad for its military, gov budget lacks ? They even needed it before this crisis despite a good gov budget.


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## Yzd Khalifa

agentny17 said:


> Wow, Saudi Arabia is taking this as far as it gets!! Again, this will never be forgotten by the Egyptian people. We appreciate that so much!



Well, 

The European-American reactions to the crisis is insanely unbelievable.



Doritos11 said:


> Why does Egypt need financial support from abroad for its military, gov budget lacks ? They even needed it before this crisis despite a good gov budget.


Not the military only, but to its economy. Plus, Egypt's military budget had severely been hit during the first revolution.

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## Syrian Lion

Arabian Legend said:


> Why don't you support you own brethren then against the tyrant Assad?



Like I said I'm with the people, if Syrians wanted Alasad gone he would have been gone long time ago...

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## olcayto

Syrian Lion said:


> Like I said I'm with the people, if Syrians wanted Alasad gone he would have been gone long time ago...



One of the biggest bs &#304;'ve ever heard.

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## islamrules

Mohamed Eddib wasn't an MB, he was no thug, his last post 14-8-2013 : Oh Allah grant me Shahada .





He was killed in Abu Za'bal prison


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## Mozambique Drill

islamrules said:


> Mohamed Eddib wasn't an MB, he was no thug, his last post 14-8-2013 : Oh Allah grant me Shahada .



He sought death and got it.

What a stupid aspiration to have.

What a waste.

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## agentny17

*25 Egyptian policemen killed in Sinai peninsula by suspected militants
*
Egyptian security officials say suspected Islamist militants ambushed two minibuses in northern Sinai Monday, killing 25 policemen.
The officials say the attack took place as the two vehicles were driving through a village near the town of Rafah, located on the border of the Gaza Strip in the volatile Sinai Peninsula. According to authorities, the militants forced the two vehicles to stop and the policemen were ordered outside and made to lie down before they were shot execution-style. The officials said that the policemen were off-duty and in civilian clothes. 
Initially, rocket-propelled grenades were believed to have been used in the attack. Egyptian state television also reported that the men were shot execution-style.


Read more: 25 Egyptian policemen killed in Sinai peninsula by suspected militants | Fox News



Mozambique Drill said:


> He sought death and got it.
> 
> What a stupid aspiration to have.
> 
> What a waste.


Security forces should be thanked for making his wish come true!!

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## revojam

*MB members entering mosque without removing their shoes!!!*

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## VelocuR

Ceylal said:


> Green pro morsi
> purple pro army
> shadded..divided
> Gray neutral
> 
> C..Shia influence
> 
> S sunni inluence.




Pakistan is Pro Morsi, green zone


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## islamrules

they had no time to take them off, they were hunted down from the near by square of Ramsis by the police n thugs all night n besieged , I wouldn't care about what am wearing when my very life is at stack , but what about the police they raided the masjid ?


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## kalu_miah

@islamrules @Jihad_ and others who support Brotherhood, common Muslim like myself will always sympathize with the heavy loss of lives. 

Having said that, I am going to put the majority blame on Brotherhood leaders for these loss of lives. It is inexcusable that they failed to be on the good side of powerful Gulf kingdoms, while accepting help from Qatar. With their stupidity and ineffective leadership, they have created internal divisions within 90% Sunni Muslims of Egypt. They could easily create a more inclusive constitution and govt., but they failed to do it and allowed the enemy they themselves created (some of whom could be their allies) to set the stage for this coup.

Now, Brotherhood should accept total defeat, acknowledge their mistakes and stop this confrontation with Sisi led Military rule to minimize loss of lives. If there is a ban, MB supporters should accept it as a punishment for allowing inept leaders to lead them astray. Now they should do soul searching and try to stay out of prisons and build alliance with rest of 90% Muslims against state repression and a renewed struggle for free and fair elections.

Copts and some few Mubarak cronies will always support Zionists, but 90% Egyptian population will not side with the Zionists and can be their potential allies in a new struggle for democracy with or without MB.

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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> they had no time to take them off, they were hunted down from the near by square of Ramsis by the police n thugs all night n besieged , I wouldn't care about what am wearing when my very life is at stack , but what about the police they raided the masjid ?



You mean they wouldn't come out.

Isn't this the same kafir military/police who are supposedly trigger happy and blood thirsty....





















24 conscripts executed. They were taking public transport to receive their certificates for military service and to be relieved of duty.

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## Solomon2

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Well, The European-American reactions to the crisis is insanely unbelievable.


I suppose guys like Obama think they don't have to take a position that might lead to increased risk of terror attack. I'm not happy about that. 

On the other hand, do the Sauds wants to present themselves as part of a front united with America and Israel?

Six of one, half a dozen of the other...


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## Hussein

@Solomon2 you already explained in a previous article you did post here.
It is not a matter of being scared of terror, it is a matter they did trust MB and still some do .

USA is already an ally of KSA. there is no discussion about it.
that's why they totally ignored the green wave in Iran ... and prefer speak with terror group like MeK.
Sadly.


@Frogman
you thank a comment which says only importance of sunni muslims?
so you think that Christians are not Egyptians ?


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## Yzd Khalifa

There is no potential threats for the time being since the higher commands of Al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula had seen better days! Two cells were arrested a few weeks ago. 



Solomon2 said:


> I suppose guys like Obama think they don't have to take a position that might lead to increased risk of terror attack. I'm not happy about that.





> On the other hand, do the Sauds wants to present themselves as part of a front united with America and Israel?
> 
> Six of one, half a dozen of the other...



Bah! The bottom line is the bottom line my friend! The KSA's FM had spoken and his voice is being heard!


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## islamrules

kalam morsal , u can't proove that islamists killed them, the one who killed 2300 would easly kill 24 of his own just to make a justification for his " war on terror "


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## Jihad_

kalu_miah said:


> @islamrules @Jihad_ and others who support Brotherhood, common Muslim like myself will always sympathize with the heavy loss of lives.
> 
> Having said that, I am going to put the majority blame on Brotherhood leaders for these loss of lives. It is inexcusable that they failed to be on the good side of powerful Gulf kingdoms, while accepting help from Qatar. With their stupidity and ineffective leadership, they have created internal divisions within 90% Sunni Muslims of Egypt. They could easily create a more inclusive constitution and govt., but they failed to do it and allowed the enemy they themselves created (some of whom could be their allies) to set the stage for this coup.
> 
> Now, Brotherhood should accept total defeat, acknowledge their mistakes and stop this confrontation with Sisi led Military rule to minimize loss of lives. If there is a ban, MB supporters should accept it as a punishment for allowing inept leaders to lead them astray. Now they should do soul searching and try to stay out of prisons and build alliance with rest of 90% Muslims against state repression and a renewed struggle for free and fair elections.
> 
> Copts and some few Mubarak cronies will always support Zionists, but 90% Egyptian population will not side with the Zionists and can be their potential allies in a new struggle for democracy with or without MB.



I never supported MB. I'm against the coup. And bloodbaths, wich pharao Sisi has full responsibility on.


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## Yzd Khalifa

Saudia is pro-Pakistan, green zone please or else 



RaptorRX707 said:


> Pakistan is Pro Morsi, green zone



In all seriousness, Pakistan should try to stay away from the ME, period.

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## Frogman

> you thank a comment which says only importance of sunni muslims?
> so you think that Christians are not Egyptians ?



I thanked for the general point of the comment. I personally believe that Christians in Egypt have been demonized and persecuted for far too long without proper cause. Personally I don't care about religion (being agnostic). Any man, woman and child born of Egyptian decent must have the same rights as his compatriot no matter what religion he was born into or chose.

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## Jihad_



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## Frogman

double post...


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## kalu_miah

Jihad_ said:


> I never supported MB. I'm against the coup. And bloodbaths, wich pharao Sisi has full responsibility on.



My dear brother, it is my observation that we only get angry and upset when we fail to understand the long chain events tied in a string with cause and effect. Nothing suddenly happens by accident.

We can be upset at Sisi because of the blood on his hands, I am upset with him too, but he is a mere pawn in this game. MB leaders failed to understand this game and there is no excuse for failure and incompetence in leadership.

I hope you understand what I am saying. What say you brother @islamrules


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## VelocuR

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Saudia is pro-Pakistan, green zone please or else
> 
> 
> 
> In all seriousness, Pakistan should try to stay away from the ME, period.




*Pakistan condemns violence in Egypt *

August 15, 2013

CAIRO: *Pakistan has condemned the use of force by Egyptian security forces against unarmed civilians which resulted in the killings of innocent lives in Cairo and other cities.*

A statement issued here today by the foreign ministry described the August 14 bloodshed as &#8216;major setback for Egypt&#8217;s return to democracy.

*&#8220;As a friend and a well- wisher of the people of Egypt, Pakistan is closely observing developments in that country and urges all parties to exercise restraint and to respect the fundamental rights of the fraternal people of that great country,&#8221; the foreign ministry spokesperson said in a statement.*

*Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan expressed concern for the people killed during clashes in Egypt and urged for all of Pakistan to condemn the violence during a National Assembly Session.*

Egyptians emerged Thursday from an all-night curfew imposed after the worst violence since their 2011 uprising, with 343 people killed as security forces broke up protests supporting ousted president Mohamed Morsi.

The army-backed interim government imposed a month-long nationwide state of emergency, and curfews in Cairo and 13 other provinces.

Shortly after the curfew ended on Thursday morning, light traffic began returning to Cairo&#8217;s streets, with roads blocked for weeks by the pro-Morsi protests now reopened.

A health ministry official said at least 300 civilians had been killed throughout the country, updating an earlier toll. The interior ministry added that 43 security personnel had lost their lives.

Egypt&#8217;s press carried photos Thursday of Morsi supporters brandishing weapons and throwing stones at police during the previous day&#8217;s confrontations.

&#8220;The nightmare of the Brotherhood is gone,&#8221; daily Al-Akhbar&#8217;s front page headline read.

&#8220;The Brotherhood&#8217;s last battle,&#8221; added Al-Shorouk.

At least four churches were attacked, with Christian activists accusing Morsi loyalists of waging &#8220;a war of retaliation against Copts in Egypt&#8221;.

The day&#8217;s violence was the worst since the 2011 uprising that ousted president Hosni Mubarak, with an AFP correspondent counting at least 124 bodies in makeshift morgues in the Rabaa al-Adawiya protest site.

*Morsi&#8217;s Muslim Brotherhood spoke of 2,200 dead overall and more than 10,000 wounded. *

We already gone green zone along with Turkey.

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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> kalam morsal , u can't proove that islamists killed them, the one who killed 2300 would easly kill 24 of his own just to make a justification for his " war on terror "



The one who uses inflated figures and posts pictures from other conflicts simply to make a point cant claim otherwise without concrete evidence. But I guess you're just mistaken.

Your own prejudice and bias blinds your judgement. Both sides have committed atrocities and no one is innocent or righteous in this conflict.



Jihad_ said:


>



24 men who were about to be relieved of duty on their way to receive their military certificates and make their way home. Not in their military uniform and unarmed. Your accusations are without reason and you have no evidence to back up your claims. Im sure you can tell the parents of those men who just received their sons and prayed on them the theory you believe.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Our relations are much greener  


RaptorRX707 said:


> *Pakistan condemns violence in Egypt *
> 
> August 15, 2013
> 
> CAIRO: *Pakistan has condemned the use of force by Egyptian security forces against unarmed civilians which resulted in the killings of innocent lives in Cairo and other cities.*
> 
> A statement issued here today by the foreign ministry described the August 14 bloodshed as &#8216;major setback for Egypt&#8217;s return to democracy.
> 
> *&#8220;As a friend and a well- wisher of the people of Egypt, Pakistan is closely observing developments in that country and urges all parties to exercise restraint and to respect the fundamental rights of the fraternal people of that great country,&#8221; the foreign ministry spokesperson said in a statement.*
> 
> *Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan expressed concern for the people killed during clashes in Egypt and urged for all of Pakistan to condemn the violence during a National Assembly Session.*
> 
> Egyptians emerged Thursday from an all-night curfew imposed after the worst violence since their 2011 uprising, with 343 people killed as security forces broke up protests supporting ousted president Mohamed Morsi.
> 
> The army-backed interim government imposed a month-long nationwide state of emergency, and curfews in Cairo and 13 other provinces.
> 
> Shortly after the curfew ended on Thursday morning, light traffic began returning to Cairo&#8217;s streets, with roads blocked for weeks by the pro-Morsi protests now reopened.
> 
> A health ministry official said at least 300 civilians had been killed throughout the country, updating an earlier toll. The interior ministry added that 43 security personnel had lost their lives.
> 
> Egypt&#8217;s press carried photos Thursday of Morsi supporters brandishing weapons and throwing stones at police during the previous day&#8217;s confrontations.
> 
> &#8220;The nightmare of the Brotherhood is gone,&#8221; daily Al-Akhbar&#8217;s front page headline read.
> 
> &#8220;The Brotherhood&#8217;s last battle,&#8221; added Al-Shorouk.
> 
> At least four churches were attacked, with Christian activists accusing Morsi loyalists of waging &#8220;a war of retaliation against Copts in Egypt&#8221;.
> 
> The day&#8217;s violence was the worst since the 2011 uprising that ousted president Hosni Mubarak, with an AFP correspondent counting at least 124 bodies in makeshift morgues in the Rabaa al-Adawiya protest site.
> 
> *Morsi&#8217;s Muslim Brotherhood spoke of 2,200 dead overall and more than 10,000 wounded. *
> 
> We already gone green zone along with Turkey.


----------



## Frogman

RaptorRX707 said:


> *Pakistan condemns violence in Egypt *
> 
> August 15, 2013
> 
> CAIRO: *Pakistan has condemned the use of force by Egyptian security forces against unarmed civilians which resulted in the killings of innocent lives in Cairo and other cities.*
> 
> A statement issued here today by the foreign ministry described the August 14 bloodshed as &#8216;major setback for Egypt&#8217;s return to democracy.
> 
> *&#8220;As a friend and a well- wisher of the people of Egypt, Pakistan is closely observing developments in that country and urges all parties to exercise restraint and to respect the fundamental rights of the fraternal people of that great country,&#8221; the foreign ministry spokesperson said in a statement.*
> 
> *Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan expressed concern for the people killed during clashes in Egypt and urged for all of Pakistan to condemn the violence during a National Assembly Session.*
> 
> Egyptians emerged Thursday from an all-night curfew imposed after the worst violence since their 2011 uprising, with 343 people killed as security forces broke up protests supporting ousted president Mohamed Morsi.
> 
> The army-backed interim government imposed a month-long nationwide state of emergency, and curfews in Cairo and 13 other provinces.
> 
> Shortly after the curfew ended on Thursday morning, light traffic began returning to Cairo&#8217;s streets, with roads blocked for weeks by the pro-Morsi protests now reopened.
> 
> A health ministry official said at least 300 civilians had been killed throughout the country, updating an earlier toll. The interior ministry added that 43 security personnel had lost their lives.
> 
> Egypt&#8217;s press carried photos Thursday of Morsi supporters brandishing weapons and throwing stones at police during the previous day&#8217;s confrontations.
> 
> &#8220;The nightmare of the Brotherhood is gone,&#8221; daily Al-Akhbar&#8217;s front page headline read.
> 
> &#8220;The Brotherhood&#8217;s last battle,&#8221; added Al-Shorouk.
> 
> At least four churches were attacked, with Christian activists accusing Morsi loyalists of waging &#8220;a war of retaliation against Copts in Egypt&#8221;.
> 
> The day&#8217;s violence was the worst since the 2011 uprising that ousted president Hosni Mubarak, with an AFP correspondent counting at least 124 bodies in makeshift morgues in the Rabaa al-Adawiya protest site.
> 
> *Morsi&#8217;s Muslim Brotherhood spoke of 2,200 dead overall and more than 10,000 wounded. *
> 
> We already gone green zone along with Turkey.



And you're just as irrelevant, well done.

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## agentny17

kalu_miah said:


> @islamrules @Jihad_ and others who support Brotherhood, common Muslim like myself will always sympathize with the heavy loss of lives.
> 
> Having said that, I am going to put the majority blame on Brotherhood leaders for these loss of lives. It is inexcusable that they failed to be on the good side of powerful Gulf kingdoms, while accepting help from Qatar. With their stupidity and ineffective leadership, they have created internal divisions within 90% Sunni Muslims of Egypt. They could easily create a more inclusive constitution and govt., but they failed to do it and allowed the enemy they themselves created (some of whom could be their allies) to set the stage for this coup.
> 
> Now, Brotherhood should accept total defeat, acknowledge their mistakes and stop this confrontation with Sisi led Military rule to minimize loss of lives. If there is a ban, MB supporters should accept it as a punishment for allowing inept leaders to lead them astray. Now they should do soul searching and try to stay out of prisons and build alliance with rest of 90% Muslims against state repression and a renewed struggle for free and fair elections.
> 
> Copts and some few Mubarak cronies will always support Zionists, but 90% Egyptian population will not side with the Zionists and can be their potential allies in a new struggle for democracy with or without MB.



While i agree with most of what you said, i still don't know why you discriminate between Egyptians ?! Christians Egyptians are similar to Muslim Egyptians when it comes to their feelings toward Israel, some are pro peace and some are totally against Israel just like most Egyptian!! Egypt relations with Israel during Morsi's time was similar to their relations during Mubarak's time simpley because its strategic for Egypt to have good relations with Israel regardless to the fact that we don't agree with their policies toward the Palestinians!!


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## BLACKEAGLE

Yzd Khalifa said:


> @agentny17 @Frogman @Mahmoud_EGY @JUBA @Arabian Legend @BLACKEAGLE
> http://www.alarabiya.net/ar/saudi-t...1575;&#1604;&#1601;&#1610;&#1589;&#1604;.html
> Now they can f u c k off



A man among men.

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## agentny17

Jihad_ said:


>


These are Egyptian security personnel who were killed today by the terrorists you support on their way home after their service in Sinai you piece of sh!t!!

Islamists way of thinking after any terrorist attack they perform.
1) Good thing these kafirs are dead. They deserved what they got.
after short period
2) We are sorry for the tragic loss.
after another short period of time
3) They claim that the casualties were Islamists and blame whatever country they at with killing them and they blame Israel too of course.

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## islamrules

Frogman said:


> The one who uses inflated figures and posts pictures from other conflicts simply to make a point cant claim otherwise without concrete evidence. But I guess you're just mistaken.
> 
> Your own prejudice and bias blinds your judgement. Both sides have committed atrocities and no one is innocent or righteous in this conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 24 men who were about to be relieved of duty on their way to receive their military certificates and make their way home. Not in their military uniform and unarmed. Your accusations are without reason and you have no evidence to back up your claims. Im sure you can tell the parents of those men who just received their sons and prayed on them the theory you believe.



the leader of Sawarka tribes in Sinai said that the 24 soldiers were held prisoners in " Safa site " two days ago , because they refused to fire on protesters, he said that they have evidence n that all people of that region know that .

As for the relatives of the soldiers they said that they (the soldiers) shouldn't have been sent in vacation these days normaly, some soldiers called them Yesterday at 10:00 PM and told them that they have recieved high orders to go on vacation .

I will never believe that islamists MB who r truly cowards in a way , kill soldiers , but instead , Sisi was head of Intelligence and he did a lot of dirty work in these last 2 years, plus there is a traitor named Mahmoud Dahlan from the Palestinian authority in he west bank who is also involved in faking terror attacks on Egyptian Soldiers in Sinai n he succeced when Morsi was forced to destroy Gaza tunnels .I previously posted a video of Egyptian generals meeting their jewish counterparts ...


----------



## Frogman

> the leader of Sawarka tribes in Sinai said that the 24 soldiers were held prisoners in " Safa site " two days ago , because they refused to fire on protesters, he said that they have evidence n that all people of that region know that .



Videos of the statements or written documents, please?

Rafah and El3areish are practically war zones and there arent any protests. If they have evidence then they must provide it. Simple. Tribal elders would have no knowledge of internal CSF/military matters unless they were on a need to know basis.



> As for the relatives of the soldiers they said that they (the soldiers) shouldn't have been sent in vacation these days normaly, some soldiers called them Yesterday at 10:00 PM and told them that they have recieved high orders to go on vacation.


 

Wrong, these conscripts had finished their military duty and were about to receive their military certificates and make their ways homes. According to the actual parents present in the funeral which was live streamed and various central security officials. They were conscripted into Egypts primary paramilitary force and not the military itself.



> I will never believe that islamists MB who r truly cowards in a way , kill soldiers , but instead , Sisi was head of Intelligence and he did a lot of dirty work in these last 2 years, plus there is a traitor named Mahmoud Dahlan from the Palestinian authority in he west bank who is also involved in faking terror attacks on Egyptian Soldiers in Sinai n he succeced when Morsi wzs forced to destroy Gaza tunnels .I previously posted a video of Egyptian generals meeting their jewish counterparts ...



The two nations have diplomatic and military intelligence ties, this is well known and is in both nations interests (regardless of what we actually think of each other). Any and all speculation is just that.


----------



## flamer84

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Well,
> 
> The European-American reactions to the crisis is insanely unbelievable.



Maybe it's for the best man,the situation is allready explosive without giving some MB members and other extremists the chance to pin it on "meddling kaffirs",i think it's better for the egyptians to sort it out themselves with some help from their arab brothers. without western interference which can be seen as poking their "kaffir" noses in a muslim countrys affairs.

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## VelocuR

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Our relations are much greener




Saudi Arabia is on purple side supporting Pro-Sisi ? How can we stay on same page? 




Frogman said:


> And you're just as irrelevant, well done.



It is not irrelevant, we know what it stands in right and wrong, Egypt has done remarkable on its lowest point.

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## Algeria

Yzd Khalifa said:


> @agentny17 @Frogman @Mahmoud_EGY @JUBA @Arabian Legend @BLACKEAGLE
> http://www.alarabiya.net/ar/saudi-t...1575;&#1604;&#1601;&#1610;&#1589;&#1604;.html
> Now they can f u c k off


That's the only Saudi foreign policy tool in their disposal. Whenever a problem arises, just throw money at it..*
&#1604;&#1575;&#1578;&#1587;&#1578;&#1594;&#1585;&#1576;&#1608;&#1575; &#1581;&#1605;&#1575;&#1587;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1593;&#1608;&#1583;&#1610;&#1577; &#1601;&#1607;&#1610; &#1578;&#1585;&#1609; &#1607;&#1584;&#1607; &#1605;&#1593;&#1585;&#1603;&#1577; &#1578;&#1602;&#1585;&#1610;&#1585; &#1605;&#1589;&#1610;&#1585; &#1604;&#1571;&#1606;&#1607;&#1575; &#1578;&#1582;&#1588;&#1609; &#1571;&#1603;&#1579;&#1585; &#1605;&#1575;&#1578;&#1582;&#1588;&#1609; &#1607;&#1608; &#1605;&#1606; &#1606;&#1592;&#1575;&#1605; &#1573;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605;&#1610; &#1589;&#1581;&#1610;&#1581; &#1610;&#1591;&#1576;&#1602; &#1605;&#1576;&#1575;&#1583;&#1574; &#1575;&#1604;&#1573;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605;&#1610;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1594;&#1575;&#1574;&#1576;&#1577; &#1601;&#1610; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1605;&#1604;&#1603;&#1577; &#1605;&#1606; &#1581;&#1585;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1593;&#1583;&#1575;&#1604;&#1577; &#1608;&#1605;&#1587;&#1575;&#1608;&#1575;&#1577; &#1576;&#1575;&#1604;&#1581;&#1602;&#1608;&#1602; &#1608;&#1604;&#1575;&#1601;&#1585;&#1602; &#1576;&#1610;&#1606; &#1601;&#1602;&#1610;&#1585; &#1608;&#1604;&#1575; &#1594;&#1606;&#1610; &#1608;&#1604;&#1575; &#1571;&#1587;&#1608;&#1583; &#1608;&#1604;&#1575; &#1571;&#1576;&#1610;&#1590; &#1608;&#1605;&#1606; &#1606;&#1592;&#1575;&#1605; &#1610;&#1587;&#1578;&#1605;&#1583; &#1588;&#1585;&#1593;&#1610;&#1578;&#1607; &#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1606;&#1578;&#1582;&#1575;&#1576; &#1588;&#1593;&#1576;&#1610; &#1608;&#1604;&#1610;&#1587; &#1581;&#1603;&#1605; &#1580;&#1576;&#1585;&#1610; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1576;&#1575;&#1583; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1576;&#1604;&#1575;&#1583; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1593;&#1603;&#1587; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1608;&#1580;&#1608;&#1583; &#1576;&#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1593;&#1608;&#1583;&#1610;&#1577; &#1605;&#1606; &#1578;&#1591;&#1576;&#1610;&#1602; &#1604;&#1602;&#1588;&#1608;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1610;&#1606; &#1608;&#1610;&#1591;&#1576;&#1602; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1590;&#1593;&#1601;&#1575;&#1569; &#1601;&#1602;&#1591; &#1608;&#1604;&#1584;&#1604;&#1603; &#1610;&#1582;&#1588;&#1608;&#1606; &#1605;&#1606; &#1605;&#1585;&#1587;&#1610; &#1608;&#1605;&#1606; &#1593;&#1608;&#1583;&#1578;&#1607; &#1608;&#1610;&#1585;&#1594;&#1576;&#1608;&#1606; &#1576;&#1575;&#1587;&#1578;&#1574;&#1589;&#1575;&#1604; &#1603;&#1604; &#1605;&#1575;&#1574;&#1605;&#1578; &#1604;&#1607; &#1576;&#1589;&#1604;&#1607;
.*​

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## Frogman

> It is not irrelevant, we know what it stands in right and wrong, Egypt has done remarkable on its lowest point.



It is. Much like Turkey, Pakistan has no political clout or power on the international stage. Your political power doesn't stretch beyond your neighbours. Don't take this as a personal attack against Pakistan or Turkey I'm just clarifying that both nations cant influence matters in Egypt or outside of it. So in practical terms and in reality you're both irrelevant.



Algeria said:


> That's the only Saudi foreign policy tool in their disposal. Whenever a problem arises, just throw money at it..*
> &#1604;&#1575;&#1578;&#1587;&#1578;&#1594;&#1585;&#1576;&#1608;&#1575; &#1581;&#1605;&#1575;&#1587;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1593;&#1608;&#1583;&#1610;&#1577; &#1601;&#1607;&#1610; &#1578;&#1585;&#1609; &#1607;&#1584;&#1607; &#1605;&#1593;&#1585;&#1603;&#1577; &#1578;&#1602;&#1585;&#1610;&#1585; &#1605;&#1589;&#1610;&#1585; &#1604;&#1571;&#1606;&#1607;&#1575; &#1578;&#1582;&#1588;&#1609; &#1571;&#1603;&#1579;&#1585; &#1605;&#1575;&#1578;&#1582;&#1588;&#1609; &#1607;&#1608; &#1605;&#1606; &#1606;&#1592;&#1575;&#1605; &#1573;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605;&#1610; &#1589;&#1581;&#1610;&#1581; &#1610;&#1591;&#1576;&#1602; &#1605;&#1576;&#1575;&#1583;&#1574; &#1575;&#1604;&#1573;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605;&#1610;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1594;&#1575;&#1574;&#1576;&#1577; &#1601;&#1610; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1605;&#1604;&#1603;&#1577; &#1605;&#1606; &#1581;&#1585;&#1610;&#1577; &#1608;&#1593;&#1583;&#1575;&#1604;&#1577; &#1608;&#1605;&#1587;&#1575;&#1608;&#1575;&#1577; &#1576;&#1575;&#1604;&#1581;&#1602;&#1608;&#1602; &#1608;&#1604;&#1575;&#1601;&#1585;&#1602; &#1576;&#1610;&#1606; &#1601;&#1602;&#1610;&#1585; &#1608;&#1604;&#1575; &#1594;&#1606;&#1610; &#1608;&#1604;&#1575; &#1571;&#1587;&#1608;&#1583; &#1608;&#1604;&#1575; &#1571;&#1576;&#1610;&#1590; &#1608;&#1605;&#1606; &#1606;&#1592;&#1575;&#1605; &#1610;&#1587;&#1578;&#1605;&#1583; &#1588;&#1585;&#1593;&#1610;&#1578;&#1607; &#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1606;&#1578;&#1582;&#1575;&#1576; &#1588;&#1593;&#1576;&#1610; &#1608;&#1604;&#1610;&#1587; &#1581;&#1603;&#1605; &#1580;&#1576;&#1585;&#1610; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1576;&#1575;&#1583; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1576;&#1604;&#1575;&#1583; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1593;&#1603;&#1587; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1608;&#1580;&#1608;&#1583; &#1576;&#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1593;&#1608;&#1583;&#1610;&#1577; &#1605;&#1606; &#1578;&#1591;&#1576;&#1610;&#1602; &#1604;&#1602;&#1588;&#1608;&#1585; &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1610;&#1606; &#1608;&#1610;&#1591;&#1576;&#1602; &#1593;&#1604;&#1609; &#1575;&#1604;&#1590;&#1593;&#1601;&#1575;&#1569; &#1601;&#1602;&#1591; &#1608;&#1604;&#1584;&#1604;&#1603; &#1610;&#1582;&#1588;&#1608;&#1606; &#1605;&#1606; &#1605;&#1585;&#1587;&#1610; &#1608;&#1605;&#1606; &#1593;&#1608;&#1583;&#1578;&#1607; &#1608;&#1610;&#1585;&#1594;&#1576;&#1608;&#1606; &#1576;&#1575;&#1587;&#1578;&#1574;&#1589;&#1575;&#1604; &#1603;&#1604; &#1605;&#1575;&#1574;&#1605;&#1578; &#1604;&#1607; &#1576;&#1589;&#1604;&#1607;
> .*​








I think the Mb had the same problem with this guy ^^ he just wouldn't stop giving them cash.


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## Algeria

Frogman said:


> It is. Much like Turkey, Pakistan has no political clout or power on the international stage. Your political power doesn't stretch beyond your neighbours. Don't take this as a personal attack against Pakistan or Turkey I'm just clarifying that both nations cant influence matters in Egypt or outside of it. So in practical terms and in reality you're both irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the Mb had the same problem with this guy ^^ he just wouldn't stop giving them cash.



Do you feel proud being dependant on aid from all around the world EU, US, UAE, Qatar, KSA?


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## Frogman

Algeria said:


> Do you feel proud being dependant on aid from all around the world EU, US, UAE, Qatar, KSA?



The nations interests come before my pride.

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## flamer84

Algeria said:


> Do you feel proud being dependant on aid from all around the world EU, US, UAE, Qatar, KSA?



In a way it's not quite charity,they're the big guys in the region,if they're not given they can get in a nasty mood and do nasty things 
There's no such thing as a free lunch.


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## VelocuR



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## islamrules

@Frogman
these r the police n thugs in Masjid Fath we talked about


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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> @Frogman
> these r the police n thugs in Masjid Fath we talked about



And they're standing around, just like the MB supporters were doing. This particular Mosque was not a place of worship after shots were fired from the minaret and several people were arrested with weapons, it was a crime scene.

They call Cairo the city of a thousand minarets for a reason.


----------



## kalu_miah

agentny17 said:


> While i agree with most of what you said, i still don't know why you discriminate between Egyptians ?! Christians Egyptians are similar to Muslim Egyptians when it comes to their feelings toward Israel, some are pro peace and some are totally against Israel just like most Egyptian!! Egypt relations with Israel during Morsi's time was similar to their relations during Mubarak's time simpley because its strategic for Egypt to have good relations with Israel regardless to the fact that we don't agree with their policies toward the Palestinians!!



Nothing against Copts in particular or any other Arab Christians, but ever since the Ottoman empire broke up, minority Arab Christians in many Arab nations worked against the majority interest. Often they acted as pawns of external powers and ended up victimized. The current situation is an example.

We have a similar situation in Bangladesh, where India uses a 9% Hindu Bangladeshi population as pawns to advance its own interest within Bangladesh, often at the expense of Hindu Bangladeshi interest.

Their equal rights should be respected and protected and in return, they need to keep best interest of majority Egyptian, which often is not the case, unfortunately.

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## Algeria

Congratulations fulool!! Mubarak will be released and Morsi jailed...Egyptians got screwed big time..lets wait maybe Jamal Mubarak will run for the next election

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## Frogman

Algeria said:


> Congratulations fulool!! Mubarak will be released and Morsi jailed...Egyptians got screwed big time..lets wait maybe Jamal Mubarak will run for the next election



Not sure how anything would have been different under Morsi. Mubarak and co. were still being found innocent of charges and the appeal for being complicit in the killing of protesters went through under Morsi. The situation hasn't and will not change unless there's judicial and common law reform.

If he is released then the current regime will have fun explaining that to the majority of Egyptians wont they, because you know the ones who are against the MB are the ones who started the revolution (MB tends to join things a bit late).

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## agentny17

kalu_miah said:


> Nothing against Copts in particular or any other Arab Christians, but ever since the Ottoman empire broke up, minority Arab Christians in many Arab nations worked against the majority interest. *Often they acted as pawns of external powers and ended up victimized. The current situation is an example.
> *
> We have a similar situation in Bangladesh, where India uses a 9% Hindu Bangladeshi population as pawns to advance its own interest within Bangladesh, often at the expense of Hindu Bangladeshi interest.
> 
> Their equal rights should be respected and protected and in return, they need to keep best interest of majority Egyptian, which often is not the case, unfortunately.


What did Christian Egyptian even do with the current situation ?!! The christian minority in Egypt has been suffering for years and the never asked the international world to interfere like what the Muslim Brotherhood are doing now for example. The christian minority in Egypt is one of the most peaceful groups in Egypt and i say that while i personally have very negative view toward the christian faith, but i am being fair!! Christians in Egypt are not even politically active to begin with. Very small portion of them are.


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## agentny17

RaptorRX707 said:


>



We would gladly follow pharaohs and all the pharaohs that ever existed!! Why would we follow an Israeli with all due respect ?!! Saying that this whole story is fairy tale but that is another issue


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## islamrules

they caught the guide of the MB , Mohamed Badi'


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## Frogman

Someone is going to have a fun time in prison with his friends tonight.

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## agentny17

Frogman said:


> Someone is going to have a fun time in prison with his friends tonight.



Some people never learn from history!!


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## VelocuR

agentny17 said:


> We would gladly follow pharaohs and all the pharaohs that ever existed!! Why would we follow an Israeli with all due respect ?!! Saying that this whole story is fairy tale but that is another issue



What make difference, Pharaoh of Egypt Army has deep relations with Israel and US authorities for decades. Moses is not Israeli agent but follow the command of God. You can be ignorant like Pharaoh.

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## islamrules

Abu Za'bal prisoners bodies evidence they were tortured then killed 





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1388481944712291

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## qamar1990

agentny17 said:


> We would gladly follow pharaohs and all the pharaohs that ever existed!! Why would we follow an Israeli with all due respect ?!! Saying that this whole story is fairy tale but that is another issue




your pharaohs were conquered and disposed.
your army is the right hand of the devil, shame on you for supporting such a worthless pathetic army that cant even touch israel but slaughters its own people by the hundreds.



agentny17 said:


> We would gladly follow pharaohs and all the pharaohs that ever existed!! Why would we follow an Israeli with all due respect ?!! Saying that this whole story is fairy tale but that is another issue




your pharaohs were conquered and disposed.
your army is the right hand of the devil, shame on you for supporting such a worthless pathetic army that cant even touch israel but slaughters its own people by the hundreds.

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## Naifov

Muhammad Badi3, the leader of the MB was arrested without any struggle, resistance or bloodshed. Then they claim that MB are terrorists. I don't know what kind of a terrorist group that does not fight before its leader gets arrested.

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## MooshMoosh

@Naifov Be careful, your corrupted House of Saud regime might trace you 

*Turkey*

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## Tanja

FNOTW: Sinai peninsula- a dark future for Egypt.
Violence in Sinai has intensified since the toppling of Mr Morsi.





_Sinai Peninsula - en &#8226; Wikimedia Commons_

"Sinai may be a dark omen of things to come in Egypt. "

One of the deadliest incidents occurred - 16 Egyptian soldiers killed in Sinai in August 2012. Egypt's political crisis began.

The Muslim Brotherhood called on the government to "confront this serious challenge to the Egyptian sovereignty" and "protect Sinai from all armed groups".


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## Tanja

FNOTW: Egypt Muslim Brotherhood leader is arrested.





_Flag of the Muslim Brotherhood.  Wikimedia Commons
_
*Security forces arrested Mohamed Badie, the Muslim Brotherhood's spiritual leader, at a residential apartment in Cairo.*


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## hussain0216

For all the power of Pharoah,

Moses pbuh had God on his side.

What did the power of pharoah get him when death came calling


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## Hussein

hussain0216 said:


> For all the power of Pharoah,
> 
> Moses pbuh had God on his side.
> 
> What did the power of pharoah get him when death came calling


what do you mean exactly?
why this obsession with Moses nowadays ? lol


----------



## Mozambique Drill

hussain0216 said:


> For all the power of Pharoah,
> 
> Moses pbuh had God on his side.
> 
> What did the power of pharoah get him when death came calling



Hands off our prophet.


----------



## iranigirl2

Mozambique Drill said:


> Hands off our prophet.



He is not "your" prophet.


He is the prophet of three Abrahamic religions.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam.


----------



## Mozambique Drill

iranigirl2 said:


> He is not "your" prophet.
> 
> 
> He is the prophet of three Abrahamic religions.
> 
> Judaism, Christianity and Islam.



He's ours. 

Our religion is 2,000 years older than yours. You are babies in the region. New guests that arrived.

It's enough that you try and steal our temples and land, leave Moses to us.

If Moses was alive today, he would be kicking YOUR bum just as he did the Pharaoh. He would be bringing TWENTY plagues on Iran for their treatment of the Israelites.


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## iranigirl2

Mozambique Drill said:


> He's ours.
> 
> Our religion is 2,000 years older than yours. You are babies in the region. New guests that arrived.
> 
> It's enough that you try and steal our temples and land, leave Moses to us.
> 
> If Moses was alive today, he would be kicking YOUR bum just as he did the Pharaoh. He would be bringing TWENTY plagues on Iran for their treatment of the Israelites.



You obviously don't know the history of this region.

80% of the people that live in Israel today have no connection to the land.


Also,the Ancient Iranian peoples emerged in parts of the Iranian plateau circa 1000 BCE.


*Ashkenazi Jews *are NOT from the Middle East and your origin is not Israeli.They are closer to European than any where in the Middle East.



Some of the people that live in the Levant today (Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria) are the original Israeli people. Some have converted to Christianity, others have converted to different branches of Islam.


Even Persian Jews are not the Israeli people. Their DNA shows they are Indo-European with no sematic ancestry. So, it's kind of outrageous your government pays them to come to Israel and take someone else's land.


After World War II, Zionist ideology was promoted , so Israel could be made into a country, Therefore America could have a base in the Middle East and expand it's hegemony from there. During the cold war, America just poured more money and military help into Israel to counter Soviet Union's influence in the Middle East. And now they support you more to counter the influence of Political Islam. 


I have to say it is a genius strategy for America and it's allies.



*If Moses was alive today, he would spit in your face.*


----------



## PeaceGen

Official: U.S. temporarily holds up some military aid to Egypt - CNN.com

Washington (CNN) -- The Obama administration is "reprogramming" some funds to Egypt while a review is underway -- in effect, temporarily holding up some military aid to the country, a U.S. official said.

A spokesman for Senator Patrick Leahy, David Carle, confirmed to CNN his office has been told the aid has been halted. The Vermont Democrat is chairman of the Appropriations State and Foreign Operations Subcommittee.

But the U.S. official emphasized no decision has been made to permanently halt the aid.
The move means the administration has taken temporary steps that ultimately allows it to move forward on either scenario: pressing ahead with the aid or cutting it off. The source would not detail how the aid was being redirected.

Once a decision has been reached about the best approach, the official said the administration will consult with Congress about how to move forward.
Reporter Josh Rogin with the Daily Beast first reported the U.S. has quietly suspended the aid.

What it means
The move provides the administration with a quick 'on/off' switch.
Under the law, if the U.S. were to designate the situation in Egypt a "coup," the U.S. couldn't restore aid until a democratic government is established.
A coup determination would not be "temporary."

But if the U.S. "reprograms" funds, they can withhold the aid as long as it thinks it's in its interest.
It could restore the aid without needing a legal determination that a democratic government has returned to Egypt. If, for example, Egypt stops the bloodshed, the aid could quickly resume.

At the White House briefing Monday, spokesman Josh Earnest said, "That's the purpose of these reviews: to determine what impact it would have on our national security, whether it's in compliance with the law, and is it going to get us closer to seeing the kind of outcome in Egypt that we would like to see, which is the prompt return to a democratically elected, civilian government in Egypt."

Earnest said the U.S. involvement with Egypt extends beyond the military relationship, and includes influence at the International Monetary Fund, and on tourism "that has a significant impact on the Egyptian economy."


----------



## Tanja

peacefan said:


> Official: U.S. temporarily holds up some military aid to Egypt - CNN.com
> 
> Washington (CNN) -- The Obama administration is "reprogramming" some funds to Egypt while a review is underway -- in effect, temporarily holding up some military aid to the country, a U.S. official said.
> 
> A spokesman for Senator Patrick Leahy, David Carle, confirmed to CNN his office has been told the aid has been halted. The Vermont Democrat is chairman of the Appropriations State and Foreign Operations Subcommittee.
> 
> But the U.S. official emphasized no decision has been made to permanently halt the aid.
> The move means the administration has taken temporary steps that ultimately allows it to move forward on either scenario: pressing ahead with the aid or cutting it off. The source would not detail how the aid was being redirected.
> 
> Once a decision has been reached about the best approach, the official said the administration will consult with Congress about how to move forward.
> Reporter Josh Rogin with the Daily Beast first reported the U.S. has quietly suspended the aid.
> 
> What it means
> The move provides the administration with a quick 'on/off' switch.
> Under the law, if the U.S. were to designate the situation in Egypt a "coup," the U.S. couldn't restore aid until a democratic government is established.
> A coup determination would not be "temporary."
> 
> But if the U.S. "reprograms" funds, they can withhold the aid as long as it thinks it's in its interest.
> It could restore the aid without needing a legal determination that a democratic government has returned to Egypt. If, for example, Egypt stops the bloodshed, the aid could quickly resume.
> 
> At the White House briefing Monday, spokesman Josh Earnest said, "That's the purpose of these reviews: to determine what impact it would have on our national security, whether it's in compliance with the law, and is it going to get us closer to seeing the kind of outcome in Egypt that we would like to see, which is the prompt return to a democratically elected, civilian government in Egypt."
> 
> Earnest said the U.S. involvement with Egypt extends beyond the military relationship, and includes influence at the International Monetary Fund, and on tourism "that has a significant impact on the Egyptian economy."



So the EU, the US and Britain are all gonna freeze the aid to Egypt :o


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## T-123456

peacefan said:


> Official: U.S. temporarily holds up some military aid to Egypt - CNN.com
> 
> Washington (CNN) -- The Obama administration is "reprogramming" some funds to Egypt while a review is underway -- in effect, temporarily holding up some military aid to the country, a U.S. official said.
> 
> A spokesman for Senator Patrick Leahy, David Carle, confirmed to CNN his office has been told the aid has been halted. The Vermont Democrat is chairman of the Appropriations State and Foreign Operations Subcommittee.
> 
> But the U.S. official emphasized no decision has been made to permanently halt the aid.
> The move means the administration has taken temporary steps that ultimately allows it to move forward on either scenario: pressing ahead with the aid or cutting it off. The source would not detail how the aid was being redirected.
> 
> Once a decision has been reached about the best approach, the official said the administration will consult with Congress about how to move forward.
> Reporter Josh Rogin with the Daily Beast first reported the U.S. has quietly suspended the aid.
> 
> What it means
> The move provides the administration with a quick 'on/off' switch.
> Under the law, if the U.S. were to designate the situation in Egypt a "coup," the U.S. couldn't restore aid until a democratic government is established.
> A coup determination would not be "temporary."
> 
> But if the U.S. "reprograms" funds, they can withhold the aid as long as it thinks it's in its interest.
> It could restore the aid without needing a legal determination that a democratic government has returned to Egypt. If, for example, Egypt stops the bloodshed, the aid could quickly resume.
> 
> At the White House briefing Monday, spokesman Josh Earnest said, "That's the purpose of these reviews: to determine what impact it would have on our national security, whether it's in compliance with the law, and is it going to get us closer to seeing the kind of outcome in Egypt that we would like to see, which is the prompt return to a democratically elected, civilian government in Egypt."
> 
> Earnest said the U.S. involvement with Egypt extends beyond the military relationship, and includes influence at the International Monetary Fund, and on tourism "that has a significant impact on the Egyptian economy."


Yeah right,they just want to show that the US is ''against'' the killings.
In the meanwhile they are happy that Morsi is gone,who cares about the dead of the innocent.
It will take a year before they come with new elections,if ever.

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## MooshMoosh

There are two faces of Coptic Christians in Egypt. 

The first face are the rich, the tycoons and the Popes who are Mubarak loyalist, those people control the Egyptian media who spread propaganda and destroyed Egypt's image. Two best examples are spreading propaganda to destroy Morsi's image during the MB's rule and the R4ba massacre how they did not mention it while calling the over 4,000 Egyptians who were killed a "terrorist". 

The second face are the middle class and the poor who are equal to the Egyptian Muslims.

The tycoons, the Popes and all the cancerous scums who are very close to Mubarak either need to be killed or put behind bars

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## PeaceGen

Tanja said:


> So the EU, the US and Britain are all gonna freeze the aid to Egypt :o



CNN-US tv just aired a segment on how US arms manufacturers send droves of lobbyists to Washington to convince lawmakers year after year of how many jobs will be lost in the defense industry if the aid does not keep flowing.. So i'm not sure where this is heading..
And several arab states have already said they'll send any aid cut by the US to Egypt themselves..

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## Ceylal

Naifov said:


> Muhammad Badi3, the leader of the MB was arrested without any struggle, resistance or bloodshed. Then they claim that MB are terrorists. I don't know what kind of a* terrorist* group that does not fight before its leader gets arrested.


MB's like all the other Islamic radical are bent on leading or destroying. For them it is black or white. For the one year, they were in power, they put Egypt on her knees, and for 5 weeks or saw they occupied the street and kept Egypt hostage..if that is not terrorism , I don't what it is.

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## Tanja

What do you think about this: 
When will Egypt&#8217;s coup media announce the suicide of President Morsi?

By Wael Qandil

&#8220;One thing leads to another&#8221;, the military coup leaders in Egypt have been hoping that this motto will fall into place since they ended the era of &#8216;coup free Africa&#8217;; decades earlier poorer countries in Africa had spent decades following coups with more coups.

The first time this motto was put into place was during the targeting of a group of jihadists in the Al-Arja village in Sinai last week. The operation was in fact, carried out by an Israeli drone aircraft that had violated Egypt&#8217;s airspace, this was confirmed by unbiased and independent, international news sources. A spokesperson for the Egyptian military then made a statement confirming that the explosion had occurred in the area and that they were combing the area to determine the cause. 24 hours later, the same spokesperson announced that the operation had been carried out by the Egyptian army with an Egyptian apache. To cover up the contradictions and confusions they sank deeper into this swamp of lies and announced that subsequent operations had been carried out by the Egyptian army in the Al-Toma area.

Events in Egypt are being explained away by this motto and are glossing over the crime of the century that is being carried out by the coup forces against the Egyptian people. As they killed thousands of martyrs and wound thousands in a massacre that puts the Karadzic and Silajdzic massacres against Bosnian Muslims in the 1990s to shame. As the operators of the media and intelligence machines behind the soup are stuck in their old and tired ways of fabricating events, a series of fires throughout the country targeting establishments and churches have distracted the Egyptians from counting the bodies and calculating the amount of blood spilled by weapons.

The saying &#8220;one thing leads to another&#8221; applies again here to cover up the cultural and moral shame spread by the coup across Egypt. The burning of churches draws attention to two contradicting statements; the first was made by the Islamic group in Egypt when they warned against targeting Christian places of worship and called on its members to protect the Copts. The second was made by the secretary of the Holy Synod of the Coptic Church of Saint Raphael in Egypt during an appearance on one of the pro-coup television channels, in which he said &#8220;If the price of saving Egypt from the rule of the Muslim Brotherhood is burning our churches, we will bear it.&#8221;


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## flamer84

Tanja said:


> What do you think about this:
> When will Egypts coup media announce the suicide of President Morsi?
> 
> By Wael Qandil
> 
> One thing leads to another, the military coup leaders in Egypt have been hoping that this motto will fall into place since they ended the era of coup free Africa; decades earlier poorer countries in Africa had spent decades following coups with more coups.
> 
> The first time this motto was put into place was during the targeting of a group of jihadists in the Al-Arja village in Sinai last week. The operation was in fact, carried out by an Israeli drone aircraft that had violated Egypts airspace, this was confirmed by unbiased and independent, international news sources. A spokesperson for the Egyptian military then made a statement confirming that the explosion had occurred in the area and that they were combing the area to determine the cause. 24 hours later, the same spokesperson announced that the operation had been carried out by the Egyptian army with an Egyptian apache. To cover up the contradictions and confusions they sank deeper into this swamp of lies and announced that subsequent operations had been carried out by the Egyptian army in the Al-Toma area.
> 
> Events in Egypt are being explained away by this motto and are glossing over the crime of the century that is being carried out by the coup forces against the Egyptian people. As they killed thousands of martyrs and wound thousands in a massacre that puts the Karadzic and Silajdzic massacres against Bosnian Muslims in the 1990s to shame. As the operators of the media and intelligence machines behind the soup are stuck in their old and tired ways of fabricating events, a series of fires throughout the country targeting establishments and churches have distracted the Egyptians from counting the bodies and calculating the amount of blood spilled by weapons.
> 
> The saying one thing leads to another applies again here to cover up the cultural and moral shame spread by the coup across Egypt. The burning of churches draws attention to two contradicting statements; the first was made by the Islamic group in Egypt when they warned against targeting Christian places of worship and called on its members to protect the Copts. The second was made by the secretary of the Holy Synod of the Coptic Church of Saint Raphael in Egypt during an appearance on one of the pro-coup television channels, in which he said If the price of saving Egypt from the rule of the Muslim Brotherhood is burning our churches, we will bear it.



Obvious cheap propaganda is obvious.
It may be good for a laugh but that's about all is good for.


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## ELTurco

*&#304;stanbul square to be named &#8216;Rabia,' Mayor Topba&#351; says*







&#304;stanbul Mayor Kadir Topba&#351; said Dörtyol Square of the Esenler district will be named Rabia, meaning four or the fourth in Arabic, which has become synonymous with the anti-coup protests in Egypt.




Speaking at the opening ceremony of the Esenler Dörtyol Square on Monday, Topba&#351; told the press that he will submit an official proposal to the Metropolitan Assembly and Esenler District Assembly to change the new square's name to Rabia.

Topba&#351; said the idea came from Esenler Mayor Mehmet Teyfik Göksu and commented on the developments in Egypt, &#8220;No power can stand against the will of the people.&#8221; Esenler Mayor Göksu said the idea of changing the square's name is a demand from the residents of the district.


http://www.todayszaman.com/news-323945-istanbul-square-to-be-named-rabia-mayor-topbas-says.html

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## hussain0216

Ceylal said:


> MB's like all the other Islamic radical are bent on leading or destroying. For them it is black or white. For the one year, they were in power, they put Egypt on her knees, and for 5 weeks or saw they occupied the street and kept Egypt hostage..if that is not terrorism , I don't what it is.



Terrorism is about the unlawfull use of force, a legitimate sit in protesting against a military coup is not terrorism.

An elected goverment trying to rule is not terrorism

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## MooshMoosh

ELTurco said:


> *&#304;stanbul square to be named &#8216;Rabia,' Mayor Topba&#351; says*
> &#304;stanbul Mayor Kadir Topba&#351; said Dörtyol Square of the Esenler district will be named Rabia, meaning four or the fourth in Arabic, which has become synonymous with the anti-coup protests in Egypt.
> 
> Speaking at the opening ceremony of the Esenler Dörtyol Square on Monday, Topba&#351; told the press that he will submit an official proposal to the Metropolitan Assembly and Esenler District Assembly to change the new square's name to Rabia.


I wonder what he will say after seeing this

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Mass slandering prabogandas of pro junta media constanly going on against MB..
an foolish example of junta media..pretending Tv serie 'Curb your Enthusiasm' of US..

They say Egypt is Sisi..Doctor is Sisi businesman is Sisi, Teacher is Sisi, Citizen is Sisi, Butcher is sisi, Killer Sisi, Sellout is Sisi, Rascal is Sisi, Dishonorable is Sisi etc...

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## MooshMoosh

People trying to save wound from the Firaun (Pharoah) El Sissi.









and welcome back Mubarak 




http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/middleeast/egypt.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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## Frogman

The banality of those who support Morsi is quite laughable.

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## Hussein

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> Mass slandering prabogandas of pro junta media constanly going on against MB..
> an foolish example of junta media..pretending Tv serie 'Curb your Enthusiasm' of US..
> 
> They say Egypt is Sisi..Doctor is Sisi businesman is Sisi, Teacher is Sisi, Citizen is Sisi, Butcher is sisi, Killer Sisi, Sellout is Sisi, Rascal is Sisi, Dishonorable is Sisi etc...


and by saying such bullshit, you think you are smart ?
damned

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Hussein said:


> and by saying such bullshit, you think you are smart ?
> damned



i said less stuffs than a killer of thousands unarmed protestors deserved..
you have an objection ??or i misunderstood you .?







BTW, Pissi junta regime executed 25 his own unarmed police near Rafah border town in Sinai to create pretexes to accuse MB on terrorism..
Junta gegime had police got on bus and later send them to duty place without any arms and protection..

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## MooshMoosh

Hussein said:


> and by saying such bullshit, you think you are smart ?
> damned


Yes, keep spreading lies. I got a cartoon for you to understand

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## Ceylal

ELTurco said:


> *&#304;stanbul square to be named &#8216;Rabia,' Mayor Topba&#351; says*


Of course they are scared for their hide.


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## Solomon2

Mubarak's Muslim Brotherhood Prophecy

*by Raymond Ibrahim
August 15, 2013 at 4:00 am*

Violence must always be presented as a product of political oppression, and Islamists as the misunderstood victims.​
In a video of Hosni Mubarak when he was still Egypt's president, the strategies of which he accuses the Muslim Brotherhood have come to pass. What follows are Mubarak's words from a conference in Egypt (date unknown; author's translation):




So they [Brotherhood and affiliates] took advantage of the economic situation by handing out money -- to one man, 100 Egyptian pounds, or about $30 dollars, [saying,] "Here take this bag of glycerin and throw it here," or do this or that  to create a state of instability in Egypt. And these groups  do not ever believe that they want democracy or anything like that. They are exploiting democracy to eliminate democracy. And if they ever do govern, it will be an ugly dictatorship. . Once a foreigner told me, "Well, if that's the case, why don't you let them form parties?" I told him, "They'd attack each other." He said, "So let them attack each other." I came to understand that by "attack each other" he thought I meant through dialogue. For years, we have been trying to dialogue with them, and we still are. If the dialogue is limited to words, fine. But when the dialogue goes from words to bullets and bombs [Mubarak shakes his head, and then provides anecdotes of the Egyptian police and security detail being killed by Brotherhood and affiliates. These anecdotes include one about how 104 policemen were killed in 1981, and one about how one officer was shot by MB while trying to save a boy's life.] The point is, we do not like bloodshed, neither our soldiers' nor our officers'. But when I see that you are firing at me, trying to kill mewell, I have to defend myself. Then the international news agencies go to these [Islamist] groups for information, and they tell them, "They are killing us, they are killing us!" Well, don't you [news agencies] see them killing the police?! I swear to you, not one of the police wants to kill themnot one of us. Then they say, "So, Mr. President, you gave orders to the police to open fire indiscriminately?"I cannot give such an order, at all. It contradicts the law. I could at one point be judged [for it].​
Consider Mubarak's exchange with "a foreigner," who interpreted Mubarak's "they'd attack each other" in apparently Western political terms of "dialogue." The habit of projecting Western approaches onto Islamistswho ironically represent the antithesis of the Westis one of the chief problems causing the West to be blind to reality, one which insists that violence must always be presented as a product of political oppression, and Islamists as the misunderstood victims.

Whatever one thinks of Hosni Mubarak, the following three points he makes have proven true:


Mubarak: "And these groupsdon't ever believe that they want democracy or anything like that. They are exploiting democracy to eliminate democracy. And if they ever do govern, it will be an ugly dictatorship." Quite so. While paying lip service to democracy, once the Brotherhood came into power under former President Muhammad Morsi, they became openly tyrannical: Morsi gave himself unprecedented powers for an Egyptian president, appointed Brotherhood members to all important governmental posts, "Brotherhoodizing" Egypt (as Egyptians called it), and quickly pushed through a Sharia-heavy constitution. Under Morsi's one year of rule, many more Christians were attacked, arrested, and imprisoned for "blasphemy" than under Mubarak's thirty years.

Mubarak: "Then the international news agencies go to these groups [Brotherhood] for information, and they tell them, 'they are killing us, they are killing us!' Well, don't you [new agencies] see them killing the police?!" Now that the Brotherhood has been ousted and is promoting terrorism in Egyptespecially against its Christian minoritytrying to push the nation into an all-out civil war, they are in fact feeding the international media the old lie that they are innocent, peaceful victims in an attempt to garner Western sympathy.

Mubarak: "They took advantage of the economic situation by handing out money." Funded by rich Wahhabi states, the Islamist organizations bought their way into Egyptian society and power. Prior to elections, they paidbribedEgyptians to vote for them; and after their ousting, they are paying peoplealong with beatings and forms of coercionto stay with them in Rad'a al-Adawiya Square, and provide them with numbers, seemingly for practical and propagandistic purposes.
In Egypt, however, where the Muslim Brotherhood was born, one soon learns that, when "dialogue" does not go the way Islamists want it to, it's back to terrorism. This requires a more realistic approach, or, in the words of Mubarak, a man who, like his predecessors, especially Gamal Abdel Nasser, is intimately acquainted with the Brotherhood: "When I see that you are firing at me, trying to kill mewell, I have to defend myself."

_Raymond Ibrahim is author of Crucified Again: Exposing Islam's New War in Christians (published by Regnery in cooperation with Gatestone Institute, April 2013). He is a Shillman Fellow at the David Horowitz Freedom Center and an associate fellow at the Middle East Forum.​_

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## islamrules

Israeli ambassador calls Al-Sisi a "national hero for all Jews" 

The Israeli ambassador in Cairo has told a minister in the interim government that the people of Israel look upon General Abdul-Fattah Al-Sisi as a "national hero". According to Israel Radio, the ambassador rang Agriculture Minister Ayman Abu-Hadid to congratulate him on his new post and said, "Al-Sisi is not a national hero for Egypt, but for all Jews in Israel and around the globe."

Israel is looking forward to the launch of new relationships with Egypt, said Yaakov Amitai, as well as joint efforts in the war on terror. His mention of "terror" is understood to be an oblique reference to President Mohamed Morsis supporters protesting against the coup which removed him from office.

The two men agreed on the resumption of the work of the Supreme Egyptian-Israeli Agricultural Committee. Meetings of the committee are held alternately in Cairo and Tel Aviv every six months. They also agreed to reactivate the Egyptian branch of the Future Leaders Network, which includes Egyptian, Jordanian, Palestinian and Israeli youths.




Israeli ambassador calls Al-Sisi a "national hero for all Jews"

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## Ceylal

RaptorRX707 said:


>










Mozambique Drill said:


> Hands off our prophet.


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## Ceylal

RaptorRX707 said:


> What make difference, Pharaoh of Egypt Army has deep relations with Israel and US authorities for decades. Moses is not Israeli agent but follow the command of God. *You can be ignorant like Pharaoh*.



Ignorant..???






Show us something from the same era, from what become today Pakistan, to compare the IQ of the two civilisations...

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## Ceylal

agentny17 said:


> These are Egyptian security personnel who were killed today by the terrorists you support on their way home after their service in Sinai you piece of sh!t!!
> 
> Islamists way of thinking after any terrorist attack they perform.
> 1) Good thing these kafirs are dead. They deserved what they got.
> after short period
> 2) We are sorry for the tragic loss.
> after another short period of time
> 3) They claim that the casualties were Islamists and blame whatever country they at with killing them and they blame Israel too of course.



*Retired General Amr: Egypt needs to kill or arrest the MB's leaders*



> Le général Amr a choisi de passer ce dimanche 18 août en famille au club Al-Ahly, dans le quartier de Nasr City, à l'est du Caire. C'est là qu'il reçoit Le Monde pour évoquer la situation du pays et partager ses opinions. "Pas mes opinions, des informations factuelles et documentées", précise-t-il d'emblée.
> Et d'abord ceci : "Nous sommes 90 millions d'Egyptiens et il n'y a que 3 millions de Frères musulmans. Il nous faut six mois pour les liquider ou les emprisonner tous. Ce n'est pas un problème, nous l'avons déjà fait dans les années 1990." Il s'exprime en arabe, que son épouse traduit dans un anglais parfait  elle est guide touristique, au chômage depuis deux ans en raison de l'effondrement du nombre de visiteurs. "Il y a 200 000 chambres d'hôtel vides dans le pays", souffle-t-elle lorsque son général allume une cigarette. Les deux garçons, qui jouent chaque jour au tennis dans ce club, écoutent respectueusement le discours paternel. "Après, les touristes reviendront, les investissements étrangers aussi. Et l'Egypte sera en paix pour les siècles à venir."



We are 90 millions Egyptians. There is 3 million MB's. It will take us 6 mos to jail or kill them all. It isn't a problem, we did it in the 90's. His wife, a tourist guide translated in perfect english her husband comments . She wishpered, I have been out of work for two years because of the lack of tourist. There is 200,000 empty hotel rooms in the country...the general continued, after that, the tourists will come back, as well as the foreign investments, and Egypt will be at peace for centuries to come...


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## Ceylal

RaptorRX707 said:


> Saudi Arabia is on purple side supporting Pro-Sisi ? How can we stay on same page?



KSA is color blind Here the way it is seen at home [mean for the Algerien government]






Egypte:The algerian official position

we support Morsissi!






> It is not irrelevant, we know what it stands in right and wrong, Egypt has done remarkable on its *lowest point*.



Well they did what needed to be done. The MB was asking for it..he got it. Like they say, if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.



Yzd Khalifa said:


> In all seriousness,* Pakistan should try to stay away* from the ME, period.



The need to clean their house first...The one who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.

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## MooshMoosh

Former vice president accused of "betraying national trust" because of resignation after crackdown on Morsi supporters.
A Cairo court has set a September trial date for Mohamed ElBaradei, the recently-resigned interim vice president for foreign affairs, on charges of "breaching national trust."

The charges against ElBaradei were filed by a law professor at Cairo's Helwan University, according to a report in the state-run Al-Ahram.

He stands accused of "betraying" the public by resigning on August 14, a misdemeanour charge that could carry an $1,430 fine if he is convicted.

The longtime diplomat stepped down hours after security forces brutally dispersed two protests in support of deposed President Mohamed Morsi, killing at least 830 people, according to official figures.

In his resignation letter, ElBaradei lamented the violent crackdown, warning of a "state of polarisation and grave division... the social fabric is threatened as violence breeds violence."

According to the complaint, ElBaradei's resignation gave the wrong impression to the international community, suggesting that the Egyptian government had used excessive force against protesters. "[This] contradicts reality," the complaint said.

Under Egyptian law, anyone can file a criminal complaint, which is usually investigated by a judge who decides whether or not to refer the case to trial. In ElBaradei's case, however, because it is a misdemeanor offense, the case will proceed directly to trial; the judge will decide at the first hearing whether to allow it to proceed.

*ElBaradei left Egypt for Vienna days after his resignation, and remains outside the country.*
http://www.aljazeera.com/story/201382013218872674





Reminds me of Syrian Assad forces, sick scums.

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## Yzd Khalifa

You're always mean to us  even though we like you 


Ceylal said:


> KSA is color blind Here the way it is seen at home [mean for the Algerien government]





> Well they did what needed to be done. The MB was asking for it..he got it. Like they say, if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.


Hahahaha     you always know how to get a good laugh out of us

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

agentny17 said:


> Some people never learn from history!!



indeed, you are 100% right..some people never learn from history...So you deserved a thanks with 5 stars by me. But it is very hard to make morons understood...

People have righful idea never die..Marhtyr Sayyid Qutub now, is more alive than his real time that he was living in..when he was living he had hundrend thouands supporter..But now he has tens of billion supporters.... Only people have no idea but killing gonna to die forever like your living death Pissi .He will has no even 2 m2 of place for his own grave in Egypt in the future..Smart people like you should have undrstood that..






Ceylal said:


> *Retired General Amr: Egypt needs to kill or arrest the MB's leaders*
> 
> 
> 
> We are 90 millions Egyptians. There is 3 million MB's. It will take us 6 mos to jail or kill them all. It isn't a problem, we did it in the 90's. His wife, a tourist guide translated in perfect english her husband comments . She wishpered, I have been out of work for two years because of the lack of tourist. There is 200,000 empty hotel rooms in the country...the general continued, after that, the tourists will come back, as well as the foreign investments, and Egypt will be at peace for centuries to come...



Ahaa!...another case of stupidity..look at those scum morons what they say again: we will kill, destroy, exterminitae, execute, arrest ect...all MBs...
Someones should theach those rascals a little bit about reality of history and say them you never kill an idea that has a growing support for decades even you massacre millions of people..

*Let them prepare their end by their own hands..*

Edit: Junta regime forces often harass Turkish tourists and detain media reporters, raid on press office of Turish news agencies in Egypt..


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## flamer84

Ceylal said:


> *Retired General Amr: Egypt needs to kill or arrest the MB's leaders*
> 
> 
> 
> We are 90 millions Egyptians. There is 3 million MB's. It will take us 6 mos to jail or kill them all. It isn't a problem, we did it in the 90's. His wife, a tourist guide translated in perfect english her husband comments . She wishpered, I have been out of work for two years because of the lack of tourist. There is 200,000 empty hotel rooms in the country...the general continued, after that, the tourists will come back, as well as the foreign investments, and Egypt will be at peace for centuries to come...



It may sound harsh but this is the best solution for Egypt.Morsi and his MB thugs have driven out the tourists and Egypt is loosing billions.It may sound cruel on short term but it will bare fruits for Egypt in the long one.

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## sardar1987

This whole mess has west and saudi written all over it.However bad a democracy may be,its 1000 times better than a dictatorship and its a known fact that muslim brotherhood was not a very particularly likeable party by west and saudi and maybe a part of egypt.Heck india is right now under the most corrupt govt ever but instead of this killzone people are waiting for the elections in 2014.And lastly i don't care whether u believe me or not but this whole situation is due to shia - sunni tussle.Coming from a neutral person it has to end somehow or middle east will never have peace.kapish


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## sardar1987

flamer84 said:


> It may sound harsh but this is the best solution for Egypt.Morsi and his MB thugs have driven out the tourists and Egypt is loosing billions.It may sound cruel on short term but it will bare fruits for Egypt in the long one.


you are so wrong dude,,,,and if i may say a bit biased,which is natural for everyone

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## Solomon2

flamer84 said:


> It may sound harsh but this is the best solution for Egypt.Morsi and his MB thugs have driven out the tourists and Egypt is loosing billions.It may sound cruel on short term but it will bare fruits for Egypt in the long one.


Interesting. Mubarak was never strong enough to destroy the M-B, even though it assassinated his predecessor. His ambassador to the U.S. made it a point to tell us pro-democracy demonstrators about his good relations with the M-B - the clear implication being that if Mubarak fell the ruling class would ally with them. 

Not only did the alliance not last long, but popular disgust and hatred of the M-B is so great that the Army has no qualms about taking very harsh measures against the Brotherhood. I suppose Sisi told the U.S. his plans and gave our ambassadors and representatives the finger because the move to suspend aid to Egypt is occurring with unprecedented speed.

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## agentny17

qamar1990 said:


> your pharaohs were conquered and disposed.
> your army is the right hand of the devil, shame on you for supporting such a worthless pathetic army that cant even touch israel but slaughters its own people by the hundreds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your pharaohs were conquered and disposed.
> your army is the right hand of the devil, shame on you for supporting such a worthless pathetic army that cant even touch israel but slaughters its own people by the hundreds.


Enjoying your parallel universe ?

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## Ceylal

http://www.freedomhouse.org/sites/default/files/Final Egypt Infographic.pdf

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## agentny17

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> i said less stuffs than a killer of thousands unarmed protestors deserved..
> you have an objection ??or i misunderstood you .?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, Pissi junta regime executed 25 his own unarmed police near Rafah border town in Sinai to create pretexes to accuse MB on terrorism..
> Junta gegime had police got on bus and later send them to duty place without any arms and protection..


You are a retard!! These are the pictures of the murdered 28 off-duty policemen that have been killed by Islamists in Sinai. You claim to be a Muslim and all you do is spread lies.

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## flamer84

Solomon2 said:


> Interesting. Mubarak was never strong enough to destroy the M-B, even though it assassinated his predecessor. His ambassador to the U.S. made it a point to tell us about his good relations with the M-B - the clear implication being that if Mubarak fell the ruling class would ally with them.
> 
> Not only did the alliance not last long, but popular disgust and hatred of the M-B is so great that the Army has no qualms about taking very harsh measures against the Brotherhood. I suppose Sisi told the U.S. his plans and gave our ambassadors and representatives the finger because the move to suspend aid to Egypt is occurring with unprecedented speed.



They will not cut aid,in fact that is not "aid",it is "bribe" for a peaceful Egypt.Cutting it means throwing the Camp David accord to the trash,so they won't do it.


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## Solomon2

Egypt's polarised media: Between claims of faked videos and Sisi posters

Mon, 19/08/2013 - 11:40




Farah Yousry
Mounir Adib

"Finally, a video exposing the sleazy actors of the Brotherhood and anti-coup protesters. Share now to expose their real face!"

This is the message that has been viewed and shared on social media websites - as well as Egyptian TV.

The message formed the caption to a video clip from a TV report screened on Qatari-owned channel, Al Jazeera International.

The video, from near Fateh mosque in Ramses Square, shows a young man with a bandage on his head, blood rushing from the head wound hidden from view. As a field doctor pulls up the man's bloodied t-shirt to check for any other wounds, the injured man supposedly loses consciousness and kicks up with his leg in an abrupt way.

According to privately-owned Egyptian channel CBC, as well as social media users sharing the video, the man was clearly afraid his act would be unmasked when the doctor pulled up his t-shirt on camera only to find that there was no wound and the whole scene was a fake.

On YouTube alone, the video has been viewed around two million times receiving more than 100,000 comments, of which almost none were challenging the authenticity of the caption. Additionally, on Facebook, the video along with its caption were shared more than 100,000 times.

The video was not only picked up by social media users and some Egyptian TV channels, but also Egyptian Foreign Minister Nabil Fahmy, who used the video during an international press conference held on Sunday as proof of the opposition's bad faith and a hostile media outlet's fabrications.

To an average Egyptian viewer who has been saturated with reports of "sexual Jihad," foreign espionage drones and poor hygiene leading to an outbreak of scabies, this scene - along with the explanation media have provided - is believable.

"Of course it is an accurate report. Muslim Brotherhood supporters have been faking deaths and killing themselves to make the military look bad, and drag them down to their level," Ahmed Fakhr, a taxi driver, said. "Everyone is aware of the [Muslim Brotherhood's] forgeries by now. Many of my passengers are very well-rounded, educated people and they hold the same view."

Little do Fakhr, his passengers and the several millions who have shared the video or watched it on Egyptian TV, know that the injured young man's abrupt kick is due to the "agitation state" caused by the "frontal lobe edema" he suffered after receiving a bullet in the head.

"He was shot in the head with birdshot from the rightside which bruised the brain and created pressure on it; a condition called frontal lobe edema," Dr. Mohamed Ahmed, neurosurgeon at Demerdash hospital where the young man is currently being hospitalized, told Egypt Independent. "This condition makes the patient very agitated and unable to control his reactions towards any external stimuli. This is what people saw on the video and mistook it for an act."

He added that when the patient was admitted to the hospital, he was at a "disturbed consciousness level" and "hardly obeying commands." According to the neurosurgeon, this causes agitation, which explains the abrupt kick he gave the doctor who was trying to pull up his t-shirt on camera.

The young man appearing on the video is Omar Nasser, 25, a medical student who has just finished his internship year and about to start his residency as a toxicology doctor at Demerdash Hospital. On Saturday, Nasser went to Ramses Square to help the injured protesters and deliver those in need of further intervention to the nearby Helal hospital. He was shot by security forces at Ramses near the Fateh mosque.

*Propaganda and demonisation*

Following army chief General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi's speech urging Egyptians to support the regime's endeavors and curb further protests and sit-ins, an Egyptian newspaper mimicked a Larry David HBO poster to promote Sisi on its front page. The general was standing at the front with a crowd of civilians behind him, all of them with the head of Sisi. The headline to the picture: "We are all al-Sisi."

On Saturday when Fateh mosque was being surrounded with protesters trapped inside, Egyptian TV, newspapers, radio channels reported that Fateh mosque had been cleared of any protesters after successful negotiations between security forces and protesters. Video streams and eyewitnesses proved otherwise.

In the weeks leading to the breakup of the Rabaa al-Adaweya sit-in, anchors reported an outbreak of scabies due to the camps lack of hygiene, the "sexual jihad," a permit for unmarried, at at times, nonconsensual sex to support "jihadis" in the square and a "foreign drone", for espionage purposes flying over Rabaa al-Adaweya protesters.

The scabies outbreak never happened. The "sexual jihad" turned out to be a rumour spurred by an errant question on a Muslim Brotherhood Facebook page. And the suspicious foreign drone turned out to be a consumer camera used to take overhead pictures of the crowds.

After Sisi's 3 July speech announcing the overthrow of Morsy, anti-Brotherhood media outlets blatantly celebrated the ouster with hosts shouting "good riddance!" against the backdrop of patriotic songs and tears of joy.

*Sectarianism and violence
*
Pro-Morsy channels, on the other hand, were reported to have resorted to hate speech and sectarianism.

Following Ettehadiyya sit-ins protesting against Morsy's Constitutional Declaration, Brotherhood media reported the presence of "used condoms," alcoholic drinks and drugs where the protesters were camping out. All of which proved to be from staged photos and footage.

The Muslim Brotherhood has also consistently reported news disproven or unverified by independent media outlets and human rights groups. Pro-Brotherhood media erroneously claimed that nerve gas was used during the Rabaa demonstration break-up, and an official death toll of over 2,000 casualties among pro-Morsi protesters.

Following the killing of protesters on 8 July at the sit-in in front of the Republican Guard's headquarters, media supporting the Muslim Brotherhood resorted to publishing pictures of "victims of the massacre" which then proved to be archived pictures of Syrians killed during the civil war between President Bashar al-Assad and rebel forces.

They have also turned a blind eye to the fact that while their protests "against the coup" are predominantly peaceful and unarmed, there do exist armed individuals in some of their rallies as reported by many eyewitnesses and journalists including Egypt Independent's own.

These allegations and others are proof of a binary that has been unfolding on social media, private media outlets, and the nations state-owned radio stations, television channels, and newspapers before and since nationwide protests erupted on 30 June.

*Experts' view*

Tarek al-Shamy, director of Al Hurra's bureau in Egypt, told Egypt Independent that professionalism was absent in Egyptian media coverage of the recent events unfolding in Egypt.

"Foreign media surpassed all Egyptian outlets as they were mostly able to set agendas aside and not be part of the political equation in Egypt," he said, referring to BBC, Al Hurra and France 24 as examples of news outlets providing professional coverage.

The post-30 June regime is complaining that foreign media is "misled" and fails to capture the full picture of what is unfolding in the country, according to Mostafa Hegazy, presidential adviser. Al-Shamy explains that if there is any truth to this claim, it would be because the Egyptian government does not provide the necessary protection and assurance to foreign journalists trying to cover events.

On Saturday, Tom Rollins of Egypt Independent was harassed by security forces and plainclothes men in Ramses Square, his passport was stolen along with all his equipment. A string of other foreign reporters have been robbed, assaulted or detained.

On the same token, Yasser Abdel Aziz, media analyst, says that some foreign media were one-sided in their coverage because of cultural reasons and tenets. For instance, in the west, military rule is almost a taboo. Hence, some foreign media might not give as much weight to stories of soldiers dying or police stations looted as it gives to stories of sit-in dispersal or a civilian dying.

Mohamed Soliman, a journalist at Al Karama newspaper and a TV producer, explains that a code of conduct for reporters is almost non-existent in Egyptian media.

Media became a tool in the hands of those who own it, he said.

"Affiliations came before professionalism and respect to the audience," Soliman added.

Qutb al-Arabi, assistant secretary general of the Supreme Council of Journalism, said that he knows of some newspapers that refrained from publishing some writers articles for opposing their owners' political affiliations, others banned media professionals from TV shows so as not to express the other point of view.&#8232;

Jaqueline Zaher of DPA believes that the Egyptian media have become "vessels" for political powers.

"Authentication and double-checking news are not on the table for many of them. Rumors and half-leads were considered okay to publish or air," she said. "This was either due to an avarice to publish more news to feed the audience that is always hungry for information, or, in most cases, to serve political agendas of the media owners."

Al-Arabi also said that anonymous sources have run rampant in Egyptian media, making it easy for some newspapers to get away with inaccurate news.

Media outlets private and state-owned are steamrolling moderate, unpolarised opinions and news coverage leaving average Egyptians confused, while those affiliate to either side of Egypt's political divide complain of media bias or resort to the end of the spectrum that confirms their bias and feed it even more, leaving little room for unbiased reports.

Egyptians are confused and the deep polarisation present in the street proves that few of them are empowered with the tools needed to weigh news before sharing them on social media or even adopting some of the media's propaganda as personal opinions.

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## agentny17

Ceylal said:


> Ignorant..???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show us something from the same era, from what become today Pakistan, to compare the IQ of the two civilisations...



Thanks .... These idiots live in their own bubble and they think the world revoves around their "Islamic" Ummah and they have no respect civilizations, cultures, ect... That is why they are rejected and they will always be rejected.

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## Ceylal

islamrules said:


> kalam morsal , u can't proove that islamists killed them,



The same one mortifying Syria, are behind the Sinai massacre...

Look at your innocent angels at their best...

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## agentny17

Solomon2 said:


> Interesting. Mubarak was never strong enough to destroy the M-B, even though it assassinated his predecessor. His ambassador to the U.S. made it a point to tell us pro-democracy demonstrators about his good relations with the M-B - the clear implication being that if Mubarak fell the ruling class would ally with them.
> 
> Not only did the alliance not last long, but popular disgust and hatred of the M-B is so great that the Army has no qualms about taking very harsh measures against the Brotherhood. I suppose Sisi told the U.S. his plans and gave our ambassadors and representatives the finger because the move to suspend aid to Egypt is occurring with unprecedented speed.


Mubarak benefited from the presence of the Muslim Brotherhood. Right now is a perfect chance to destroy this group for good for the sake of Egypt. The army has unconditional support to deal with this group from the Egypt people and luckily from the Arab world.


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## flamer84

Injured Egyptian Brotherhood cought with fake wound - YouTube

Lol at the fakers

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## agentny17

*Evolve or Expire*
The Coming Clash Within the Muslim Brotherhood

In other corners of the region where Islam is almost the sole defining social characteristic, Islamization might not have been so problematic. Islamist parties could have become just one force among many in a plural political milieu. But in Egypt, the notion clashed with the very old, rich, and deeply entrenched Egyptian national identity: a blend of Arabism, Mediterraneanism, Levantenism, Christianism, pharoahism, and a unique type of Islamism that has adapted, over centuries, to the tranquil and laid back life of the country&#8217;s agrarian society. For many Egyptians, including the leaders of several influential state institutions, fighting the Brotherhood has thus become a struggle to defend Egyptianness.

Tarek Osman | The Coming Clash Within the Muslim Brotherhood | Foreign Affairs


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

agentny17 said:


> You are a retard!! These are the pictures of the murdered 28 off-duty policemen that have been killed by Islamists in Sinai. You claim to be a Muslim and all you do is spread lies.


Really?
Is there any a certa&#305;n orgs that take on that atack by now?
Why regime sent a bus with full of police without any arms or protection in a very daangerous area?

We had underwent a 100 % similiar case in 1993 that caused death of 33 unarmed soldiers when a cease fire was running btween PKK and Turkey. And later ceasefire had over at once. 
Now, go and look at the mirror carefully then you will realise who is a retard?
BTW: are you a muslim? Just out of curiosity.

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## islamrules

*
protesters did not push anything off the bridge !!!*








Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> Really?
> Is there any a certa&#305;n orgs that take on that atack by now?
> Why regime sent a bus with full of police without any arms or protection in a very daangerous area?
> 
> We had underwent a 100 % similiar case in 1993 that caused death of 33 unarmed soldiers when a cease fire was running btween PKK and Turkey. And later ceasefire had over at once.
> Now, go and look at the mirror carefully then you will realise who is a retard?
> BTW: are you a muslim? Just out of curiosity.



Pisi is no different than they other dictators , faking terror attacks to justify the killing he's done

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## agentny17

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> Really?
> Is there any a certa&#305;n orgs that take on that atack by now?
> *Why regime sent a bus with full of police without any arms or protection in a very daangerous area?*
> 
> We had underwent a 100 % similiar case in 1993 that caused death of 33 unarmed soldiers when a cease fire was running btween PKK and Turkey. And later ceasefire had over at once.
> Now, go and look at the mirror carefully then you will realise who is a retard?
> BTW: are you a muslim? Just out of curiosity.


GTFO...... You guys never side with the truth; you guys side with your organizations, parties no matter what you see or what kind of proofs presented to you.


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## Mahmoud_EGY

flamer84 said:


> It may sound harsh but this is the best solution for Egypt.Morsi and his MB thugs have driven out the tourists and Egypt is loosing billions.It may sound cruel on short term but it will bare fruits for Egypt in the long one.


at least they deserve it the poor uneducated people who are driven to kill and be killed must be saved if possible


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## VelocuR

The Arabs intelligence unfortunately is not much surprised and same level of killing innocent humans for decades without progress. 

In fact, Arabs mentality is worst than terrorisms.


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## hussain0216

The egyptian army is a kaffir army kill them all and let god sort them out


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## agentny17

Bodies of 28 police conscripts killed by Islamists in Sinai arrive at a military airport in Cairo


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## agentny17

hussain0216 said:


> The egyptian army is a kaffir army kill them all and let god sort them out


That is exactly i call you and other Islamists terrorists!! You are "smart" to do Jihad behind your computer screen, but in Egypt some are not as "smart" as you and decide to kill others and destroy houses of worship, and government buildings, streets, and bridges, and other properties and that is why security forces kill them.


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## agentny17

Pictures of churches burnt by the Muslim Brotherhood and their supporters all across Egypt after the ouster of former president Morsi. Over 70 churches have been attacked so far


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## Jihad_

Saudi Arabia Blames America For the Turmoil in Egypt - The Daily Beast



> In an unprecedented comment this weekend, Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah blamed American "ignorance" for the crisis in Egypt. Without mentioning America by name, the king blamed Washington's "interference" in Arab politics for the last two years of turmoil.
> 
> In a scathing statement, the king urged Muslims to stand behind the Egyptian Army in fighting terrorism and extremism. Speaking in sorrow, Abdullah blamed outsiders ignorant of Arabism, Islam, and Egypt for senseless interference in the politics of the Arab world's most populous state. Clearly referring to President Obama's decision two years ago to push for Hosni Mubarak's ouster, the king suggested Washington played with fire and has now been burned.
> 
> The Saudis were shocked when Obama abandoned Mubarak, a close Saudi ally, in 2011. They saw a dangerous precedent for their own future. *Since then the kingdom has been the leader of the counterrevolution in the Arab world, bucking up regimes in Bahrain, Yemen, and Jordan.* The Saudis were early supporters of the coup in Cairo and have rallied their Gulf allies, Kuwait and the UAE, to promise $12 billion in aid to the military government that has ousted the Muslim Brotherhood. The UAE issued its own statement this weekend fully backing Abdullah.
> 
> Both the UAE and the kingdom see the Brotherhood as a menace. More importantly *Abdullah fears that if democratic elections begin to flourish in the Arab world, then sooner rather than later Saudis will want elections and change in the kingdom itself.*
> 
> The king called for the &#8220;ignorant&#8221; to come to their senses and stop interfering in Egypt. Criticizing the army crackdown, as Obama has done, only helps the "terrorists," the king argues.
> 
> *For Riyadh the Arab awakening posed a new threat, a mortal challenge to the world's last absolute monarchy*, that America has been too slow to understand. Come to your senses, America, and back the army, the king urges. *Stick with autocracy.*


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## Hussein

MooshMoosh said:


> Yes, keep spreading lies. I got a cartoon for you to understand



sorry , which lies? i was criticizing his over (extra over) exageration
anyone smart reading all the blames he was writing ... i mean this is too much and non sense

we need to keep wise enough in this forum, and keep calm
stop entering in a very passion way of lies machine

about USA , you sure they know what they want ? @Solomon2 few days ago was posting a very good article about link between US and MB
the best one .

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## Solomon2

Saudi Arabia Blames America for the Turmoil in Egypt
_by Bruce Reidel_ Aug 19, 2013 4:45 AM EDT

*Saudi Arabias king said that Washingtons interference in Arab politics is to blame for the coup in Egypt. Bruce Riedel on Abdullahs pitch: autocracy will set you free.*

In an unprecedented comment this weekend, Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah blamed American "ignorance" for the crisis in Egypt. Without mentioning America by name, the king blamed Washington's "interference" in Arab politics for the last two years of turmoil.

_



President Barack Obama meeting with Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah, seated left, June 29, 2010, in the Oval Office of the White House. (Ron Edmond/AP)​_
In a scathing statement, the king urged Muslims to stand behind the Egyptian Army in fighting terrorism and extremism. Speaking in sorrow, Abdullah blamed outsiders ignorant of Arabism, Islam, and Egypt for senseless interference in the politics of the Arab world's most populous state. Clearly referring to President Obama's decision two years ago to push for Hosni Mubarak's ouster, the king suggested Washington played with fire and has now been burned.

The Saudis were shocked when Obama abandoned Mubarak, a close Saudi ally, in 2011. They saw a dangerous precedent for their own future. Since then the kingdom has been the leader of the counterrevolution in the Arab world, bucking up regimes in Bahrain, Yemen, and Jordan. The Saudis were early supporters of the coup in Cairo and have rallied their Gulf allies, Kuwait and the UAE, to promise $12 billion in aid to the military government that has ousted the Muslim Brotherhood. The UAE issued its own statement this weekend fully backing Abdullah.

Both the UAE and the kingdom see the Brotherhood as a menace. More importantly Abdullah fears that if democratic elections begin to flourish in the Arab world, then sooner rather than later Saudis will want elections and change in the kingdom itself.

The king called for the ignorant to come to their senses and stop interfering in Egypt. Criticizing the army crackdown, as Obama has done, only helps the "terrorists," the king argues.

Saudi Arabia's super rich neighbor Qatar is also the target of Abdullah's ire. Qatar promised the Brotherhood as much as $8 billion in aid before the coup and has called for the army to free President Morsi from detention since. Again, without naming Qatar specifically, the king blasts those who "inadvertently" are on the wrong side in Egypt, suggesting Qatar has lost sight of the need for the Gulf monarchies to stand united behind autocracy.

The Saudis don't want an open break with Washington, so their critique is indirect. Riyadh still wants to work with Washington on Iran, al Qaeda, Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations, and other issues. The Saudis value an alliance that dates back to 1945. But the alliance has always been based on shared threat assessmentsnot shared values. Whether the threat was the Soviet Union, Saddam Hussein, Shia Iran or al Qaeda, America and Saudi Arabia were partners. But for Riyadh the Arab awakening posed a new threat, a mortal challenge to the world's last absolute monarchy, that America has been too slow to understand. Come to your senses, America, and back the army, the king urges. Stick with autocracy. 

The Arab awakening has always put America between its values and its interests. We want democracy to succeed. We believe that is the only sustainable path to genuine stability. But our allies want predictable autocrats to rule. Messy tough decisions will be confronting Obama at every turn.


Bruce Riedel is director of Brookings new Intelligence Project. He has served as an adviser in the White House to the last four presidents. His most recent book is: _Avoiding Armageddon: America, India and Pakistan to the Brink and Back_.

For inquiries, please contact The Daily Beast at editorial@thedailybeast.com.


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## hussain0216

agentny17 said:


> That is exactly i call you and other Islamists terrorists!! You are "smart" to do Jihad behind your computer screen, but in Egypt some are not as "smart" as you and decide to kill others and destroy houses of worship, and government buildings, streets, and bridges, and other properties and that is why security forces kill them.



You're slaughtering thousands of innocent people

A point comes when people must fight back against oppression, the egyptisn army has proven itself beneath contempt and can no longer be trusted the people must begin to fight back to defend the ms

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## agentny17

hussain0216 said:


> You're slaughtering thousands of innocent people
> 
> A point comes when people must fight back against oppression, the egyptisn army has proven itself beneath contempt and can no longer be trusted the people must begin to fight back to defend the ms


Good ahead, tough guy!!


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## hussain0216

agentny17 said:


> Bodies of 28 police conscripts killed by Islamists in Sinai arrive at a military airport in Cairo



God will not accept these people

They will burn in hell now, pfff so much for their nationalism


----------



## islamrules

The burning happened in One or two Days at most , the MB have been there for 80 years n they never harmed a christian church, we all know who bombed the "2 saints" church just before the revolution, in fact they protected the churches in Jan 25 so what ur saying is that they decide to turn into terrorists in one day ?? n why they were no casualties in human life amongst the burned churches ??
The police left their positions purposely to allow the thugs to attack n that is one of ur own admitting that they authorized Pisi and he sent them thugs to burn their churches 




and after the burning , Pisi promises to fix the churches with state money, but he has no money for the burning Masjids, bc kuffars r more important for him


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## Solomon2

Hussein said:


> @Solomon2 few days ago was posting a very good article about link between US and MB


I guess you're either referring to Totten's interview of Trager or The New America Foundation analysis by Barfi.

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## hussain0216

Who gives a crap about churches the egyptian military has killed thousands in cold blood


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## Jihad_

hussain0216 said:


> Who gives a crap about churches the egyptian military has killed thousands in cold blood



That's not an excuse, for whoever that's behind it, (maybe the totalitairan regime) to burn churches. It's terrorism.


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## flamer84

hussain0216 said:


> Who gives a crap about churches the egyptian military has killed thousands in cold blood



If it would have been a mosque you would have filled this forum with your womenly screams."the horror ! the horror!"..Well it looks like most egyptians give a damn,they're living side by side with christians for over 1300 years as a nation they don't need a clueless pakistani speaking for them on the net.



hussain0216 said:


> God will not accept these people
> 
> They will burn in hell now, pfff so much for their nationalism



Here it is ladies and gentlemen,God's personal spokesman! Thanks for sharing His thoughts man!


----------



## hussain0216

Jihad_ said:


> That's not an excuse, for whoever that's behind it, (maybe the totalitairan regime) to burn churches. It's terrorism.



Fine I accept that, it's a counter productive action anyway just gives the egyptian army an excuse

But at the day even nothing can be compared to thousands of human beings being gunned Down in cold blood


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## ELTurco

agentny17 said:


> You are a retard!! These are the pictures of the murdered 28 off-duty policemen that have been killed by Islamists in Sinai. You claim to be a Muslim and all you do is spread lies.



How can you be so sure about the perpetrators do they have evidence,proof?

At this critical stage responsible ones can be anyone from anywhere you have to consider those are the only people who would not benefit from that deed.


----------



## agentny17

hussain0216 said:


> God will not accept these people
> 
> They will burn in hell now, pfff so much for their nationalism



Well, F*** your "God" then, if he is that evil!!


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## hussain0216

The people in the egyptian army have stood against god and slaughtered thousands of innocent Muslims

Their brutal and cruel nationalism will get them hellfire 

We have the quran for guidance and people like the egyptian soldiers and liberals are clearly described


The egyptian soldiers will now face judgement, better get your excuses ready boys for betraying god, & they better be good

I hope they enjoy what's waiting for them


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## agentny17

islamrules said:


> The burning happened in One or two Days at most , the MB have been there for 80 years n they never harmed a christian church, we all know who bombed the "2 saints" church just before the revolution, in fact they protected the churches in Jan 25 so what ur saying is that they decide to turn into terrorists in one day ?? n why they were no casualties in human life amongst the burned churches ??
> The police left their positions purposely to allow the thugs to attack n that is one of ur own admitting that they authorized Pisi and he sent them thugs to burn their churches
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and after the burning , Pisi promises to fix the churches with state money, but he has no money for the burning Masjids, bc kuffars r more important for him


Islamists have been attacking and discriminating against non Islamists, especially Christians for decades in Egypt now.

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## hussain0216

agentny17 said:


> Well, F*** your "God" then, if he is that evil!!



Spoken like a true egyptian liberal or are you a egyptian Christian

Your heading to the same place as them and the egyptian people will take back their nation from you scum, you will pay for your word's


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## agentny17

hussain0216 said:


> Spoken like a true egyptian liberal or are you a egyptian Christian
> 
> Your heading to the same place as them and the egyptian people will take back their nation from you scum, you will pay for your word's


I could worship Amun-Ra, its none of your darn bossiness. 
Dude, Islamists don't even consider themselves Egyptian!! We are the Egyptian people, get your facts right.

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## hussain0216

agentny17 said:


> Well, F*** your "God" then, if he is that evil!!



Tell me as a Christian, liberal whatever you are

Have you told the egyptian soldiers the above statement

Of course they will support you


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## hussain0216

agentny17 said:


> I could worship Amun-Ra, its none of your darn bossiness.
> Dude, Islamists don't even consider themselves Egyptian!! We are the Egyptian people, get your facts right.



The egyptian people is not your kind the same with the traitor copts

The egyptian people will overcome and take back their nation from the liberals and army

Your dirt poor let's see you fix and run the nation after the mess you have created


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## agentny17

hussain0216 said:


> The egyptian people is not your kind the same with the traitor copts
> 
> The egyptian people will overcome and take back their nation from the liberals and army
> 
> Your dirt poor let's see you fix and run the nation after the mess you have created


Basically what you guys been doing for almost 3 years now. Calling us Kaffirs, Christians, Jews, non Muslims, infidels, ect.. But you know what ? The Egyptian people don't buy this stuff anymore. So, try another one

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## hussain0216

agentny17 said:


> Basically what you guys been doing for almost 3 years now. Calling us Kaffirs, Christians, Jews, non Muslims, infidels, ect.. But you know what ? The Egyptian people don't buy this stuff anymore. So, try another one



Oh they buy it alright, no one will forget what you liberals and Christians have done to the Egyptian people

They will pay you back


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## islamrules

seculars n christians just canceled 2 main articles from the constitution, can u guess what r they about ?

Article 2
Islam is the state&#8217;s religion, and Arabic is its official language. The principles of Islamic law (sharia) form the main source of legislation.

Article 219
The principles of Islamic law (sharia) include general evidence, the foundational principles of Islamic jurisprudence (usul al-fiqh), the reliable sources from among the Sunni schools of thought (madhahib).
In elections that are to be held every three years, half of the council&#8217;s seats are to be opened to election.


Don't forget this not a war on islam, it's just a political conflict or/and a " war on terrorism "

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## VelocuR

*Egyptian &#8216;Liberals&#8217; Are Out for Blood*

They have lost all moral high ground by supporting the military's violent crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood

August 14 2013

Last month, General Abdul Fattah al-Sisi, head of the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces and Egypt&#8217;s new military strongman, asked Egyptians to &#8220;come out to give me the mandate and order to confront violence and potential terrorism.&#8221; What al-Sisi sought was a green light from the Egyptian street to put down the Muslim Brotherhood, whose supporters were still protesting on behalf of the country&#8217;s first elected President, Brotherhood member Mohamed Morsi, whom al-Sisi removed from office and jailed on July 3.

Yesterday, al-Sisi put his mandate to work when security forces attacked demonstrators in Cairo, Alexandria and other cities and villages throughout Egypt. At this point, 575 people are confirmed dead nationwide. Only time will tell if al-Sisi has eradicated the Muslim Brotherhood and its allies, but the death knell is already ringing for another of Egypt&#8217;s famous political movements: liberalism.

Mohamed ElBaradei, former head of the International Atomic Energy Agency and the face of Egyptian liberalism, resigned on account of Wednesday&#8217;s violence, but the reality is that many of those Egyptians who define themselves as liberals supported the July coup as well as today&#8217;s crackdown.* &#8220;Egypt&#8217;s liberals are trying to ignore the fact that people are being murdered,&#8221;* says Samuel Tadros, an Egypt expert and a fellow at Hudson Institute&#8217;s Center for Religious Freedom. In doing so, Tadros told me in a recent interview, they have lost any claim to a moral high ground. *&#8220;For liberalism to succeed, it needs to explain why this political worldview is superior to others. It&#8217;s not just about the material benefits of economic liberalism, but why it&#8217;s better for man. Man, after all, does not live by bread alone. Here, Egyptian liberalism has failed completely. The liberals in support of the coup and the violent crackdown have abandoned morality for short-term political gains.&#8221;*

It&#8217;s understandable that many Egyptians are concerned about the Muslim Brotherhood&#8217;s religiously fundamentalist and paranoid worldview. *But the fact that people who describe themselves as liberals want to see their neighbors&#8217; blood shed suggests that their liberalism isn&#8217;t what we typically mean by a political doctrine that prizes individual freedom and seeks as little interference from the state as possible. The reality is that Egypt&#8217;s liberals have aligned themselves with the military &#8212; the very same regime that they protested against during the 2011 uprising that toppled Hosni Mubarak.
*
Why have liberals turned from democracy, albeit a very imperfect one, back to the military? As Tadros explains in his new book, Motherland Lost: The Egyptian and Coptic Quest for Modernity, Egypt&#8217;s liberals have always depended on the state for their advancement, for education, employment and social status. &#8220;In Egypt,&#8221; Tadros tells me, &#8220;liberalism didn&#8217;t start as it did in Europe with the emergence of an independent bourgeoisie that sought to limit the powers of the state and other entrenched institutions. In Egypt, liberalism was born with the rise of the civil-servant class in the mid&#8211;19th century. Since civil servants are a part of the state, this liberalism is not at all interested in limiting the role of the state.&#8221;

Moreover, whereas Western liberals have historically seen it as their role to educate their fellow citizens in liberal values, *Egyptian liberals have always seen this as the job of the state. Should the state prove incapable of inculcating others with the same ideas and ambitions, then it is up to the state to protect the liberals from what they perceive as the unwashed masses, i.e., their neighbors. And right now it is the Muslim Brothers and their Islamist partners whom the liberals see as a threat that needs to be put down.*

In addition to acting in bad faith,* the liberals have made a bad deal by siding with the army. Because the liberals never prepared the ground for liberalism, they left it wide open for the Islamists, who over 80 years built a grassroots network that combined political indoctrination with social services that earned them respect and admiration* &#8212; which is why Morsi won the presidential election in June 2012. In spite of al-Sisi&#8217;s crackdown, the Muslim Brotherhood will almost surely return &#8212; and *next time better organized and, holding a vendetta against the army and the millions who clamored for the Brotherhood&#8217;s blood, much angrier. In the meantime, as Tadros argues, &#8220;it&#8217;s the Muslim Brotherhood, and not the liberals, who can claim the moral high ground.&#8221;*

Out for Blood, Egypt's 'Liberals' Lose Moral High Ground | TIME.com


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## agentny17

hussain0216 said:


> Oh they buy it alright, no one will forget what you liberals and Christians have done to the Egyptian people
> 
> They will pay you back


You live in a parallel universe. You really have no idea how much hate Egyptians have toward Islamists now!! Why do you think so many people came to the street against Morsi ? Even Islamists protests don't have that many people. The Egyptian people untied against tyranny, extremism, and terrorism.



islamrules said:


> seculars n christians just canceled 2 main articles from the constitution, can u guess what r they about ?
> 
> Article 2
> Islam is the state&#8217;s religion, and Arabic is its official language. The principles of Islamic law (sharia) form the main source of legislation.
> 
> Article 219
> The principles of Islamic law (sharia) include general evidence, the foundational principles of Islamic jurisprudence (usul al-fiqh), the reliable sources from among the Sunni schools of thought (madhahib).
> In elections that are to be held every three years, half of the council&#8217;s seats are to be opened to election.
> 
> 
> Don't forget this not a war on islam, it's just a political conflict or/and a " war on terrorism "



While i wish these stupid articles would be canceled, but unfortunately article 2 will not be canceled while article 219 will most definitely be canceled since no Egyptian constitution in the past carried such a retarded article.

Again, stop spreading lies


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## islamrules

This is the senario that has been agreed on between the Police and thugs since Pisi's coup.

Thugs go first corrupt in the land, and terrorize the innocent people , then the Police comes after

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## Edevelop

*Hosni Mubarak to be freed as Army tightens its grip on Egypt *


Hosni Mubarak, the man whose 30-year tyranny as Egypts leader triggered a revolt which shook the Middle East, will be freed from prison by the end of the week, his lawyer claimed.

Many Egyptians, plagued by violence and insecurity, will welcome the return of the former President; others will greet his release with indifference. For some, the development will mark the most obvious confirmation yet that the military establishment still reigns supreme and the gains of the Egyptian revolution are being lost.

Mubarak, who was arrested shortly after being toppled in February 2011, is currently being held in the Tora Prison in south Cairo.

Among his fellow inmates are senior Brotherhood figures rounded up since the 3 July popular coup .

Following an appeal against his original conviction for involvement in the killing of protesters, the only grounds for the former Presidents continued detention rest on a separate corruption case relating to gifts he received during his time in power. But Mubaraks lawyer, Farid el-Deeb, said that case would soon be resolved.

All we have left is a simple administrative procedure that should take no more than 48 hours, Mr Deeb told the Reuters news agency. He should be freed by the end of the week.

There was speculation, however, that further charges could be brought against Mubarak, or else authorities would find another reason to keep the former air force chief detained. A judicial source, speaking to Reuters, said Mubarak would spend at least two more weeks behind bars before the criminal court made a final decision in the outstanding case against him.

In an ironic twist, the ruling on Mubaraks fate came as it was announced that new charges were being brought against his successor, the Muslim Brotherhoods Mohamed Morsi, for inciting violence.

As the battle over the fate of Egypts former presidents went on, the Egyptian news bulletins were filled with yet more examples of brutal violence.

In North Sinai, a largely lawless region which has long been plagued by Islamic militancy, 25 policemen were killed after their minibuses were ambushed by gunmen. Egyptian officials said the men were ordered off the vehicles and then shot dead in a mass-execution style killing.

The attack followed the deaths of 36 prisoners who had been rounded up following the weekend violence in Cairo. There were conflicting accounts of exactly how the prisoners died, but they had been on their way to a prison north of the capital in a large convoy containing hundreds of detainees.

Following last Wednesdays state-led massacre of several hundred Islamists  an event which Human Rights Watch described yesterday as the most serious incident of mass unlawful killings in modern Egyptian history  the worsening security situation has fed into an impression of a nation at war with itself.

Muslims and Christians  who in Tahrir Square were once declared to be on one hand, in the words of the famous revolutionary chant  are now more fearful of each other than ever, especially since the wave of church attacks carried out by Islamists since last week.

Some activists are attempting to tread a pathway through the deepening fear and polarisation. The recently established Masmoua, or Heard campaign, aims to encourage Egyptians against veering to the extremes of either the Brotherhood or the military.

One Egyptian writer, speaking to The Independent yesterday, expressed a cynicism felt by many Egyptian activists after the events of recent days. Everything I worked for over the past two and a half years has gone down the drain, he said.


Hosni Mubarak to be freed as Army tightens its grip on Egypt - Africa - World - The Independent


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## agentny17

islamrules said:


> This is the senario that has been agreed on between the Police and thugs since Pisi's coup.
> 
> Thugs go first corrupt in the land, and terrorize the innocent people , then the Police comes after



See how nice the Police is ?! They saved an Islamists from the people and this has been going for a while 
Saying that, i condemn violence unless its being used for self defense. I think the people should have called the cops and not use violence at all against anybody who isn't armed or being violent. 

Can you condemn attacking churches, security forces, government buildings ? I doubt it!!


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## gtrr

By the way, 
these so called 'secular liberals' tend to be the type who swear upon liberalism but have 13 year-old maids working 60 hour weeks for peanuts.

They're the same 'secular liberals' who swear upon liberalism yet believe the 'unwashed masses' [masses of Egyptian poor support the MB] don't deserve the vote. 

They're the same 'secular liberals' who want a system where their elitism and exorbitant privilege is secured and maintained.

They are miles off the classical Western liberalism, we understand in the West. If anything, the Brotherhood are more liberal than these 'liberals'.


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## agentny17

Group of delusion and terrorism

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## Frogman

hussain0216 said:


> God will not accept these people
> 
> They will burn in hell now, pfff so much for their nationalism



You should probably read up on your own religion. It might surprise you. 









islamrules said:


> The burning happened in One or two Days at most , the MB have been there for 80 years n they never harmed a christian church, we all know who bombed the "2 saints" church just before the revolution, in fact they protected the churches in Jan 25 so what ur saying is that they decide to turn into terrorists in one day ?? n why they were no casualties in human life amongst the burned churches ??
> The police left their positions purposely to allow the thugs to attack n that is one of ur own admitting that they authorized Pisi and he sent them thugs to burn their churches
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and after the burning , Pisi promises to fix the churches with state money, but he has no money for the burning Masjids, bc kuffars r more important for him



All damage to state institutions and/or churches/mosques/homes will be repaired or rebuilt by the military. Christian churches have been systematically targeted by Islamists for years and there have been many deaths (this year and many before). But I guess you're just mistaken.



hussain0216 said:


> Who gives a crap about churches the egyptian military has killed thousands in cold blood



The security forces have killed hundreds, military forces were not involved in the majority of events nor were they mobilised in massive numbers. Actual Egyptians care whether churches.



hussain0216 said:


> Fine I accept that, it's a counter productive action anyway just gives the egyptian army an excuse
> 
> But at the day even nothing can be compared to thousands of human beings being gunned Down in cold blood



All life should be valued, whether one man dies or a million our response to death should not be different. Again, hundreds.



ELTurco said:


> How can you be so sure about the perpetrators do they have evidence,proof?
> 
> At this critical stage responsible ones can be anyone from anywhere you have to consider those are the only people who would not benefit from that deed.



Tell me one thing the MB have done in their term of power and after that hasn't been counter productive. The evidence is there, its called 24 dead conscripts on the road side.

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## agentny17

*Egypt demands Hamas apprehend Badie's deputy, hiding in Gaza
*
A state source in Egypt told the Palestinian news agency Maan that Egyptian authorities have demanded Hamas to hand over Mahmoud Izzat, deputy to Mohamed Badie and current acting supreme leader of the Muslim Brotherhood. According to suspicions, Izzat is hiding in the
Gaza Strip.

The source added that the authorities wish to question Izzat on the execution of 25 police officers in Egyptian Rafah on Monday. According to the source, Izzat is suspected of killing officers and soldiers in el-Arish, Rafah and in a-Sheikh Zawid. The source added that Egypt notified the Interpol that Izzat must be apprehended, as well as three Hamas members. (Roi Kais)

Egypt demands Hamas apprehend Badie's deputy, hiding in Gaza - Israel News, Ynetnews


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## gtrr

ElBaradei charged with treason. 
Mubarak on the cusp of freedom.
Break all relations with this mass-murdering junta pending new democratic elections with all parties, and freedom for the current elected president.
Sisi to the International Criminal Court.


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> i said less stuffs than a killer of thousands unarmed protestors deserved..
> you have an objection ??or i misunderstood you .?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, Pissi junta regime executed 25 his own unarmed police near Rafah border town in Sinai to create pretexes to accuse MB on terrorism..
> Junta gegime had police got on bus and later send them to duty place without any arms and protection..






agentny17 said:


> *Egypt demands Hamas apprehend Badie's deputy, hiding in Gaza
> *
> 
> *The source added that the authorities wish to question Izzat on the execution of 25 police officers in Egyptian Rafah on Monday.* According to the source, Izzat is suspected of killing officers and soldiers in el-Arish, Rafah and in a-Sheikh Zawid. The source added that Egypt notified the Interpol that Izzat must be apprehended, as well as three Hamas members. (Roi Kais)
> 
> Egypt demands Hamas apprehend Badie's deputy, hiding in Gaza - Israel News, Ynetnews



*@agentny17* 
*
dont you accept the true yet?*


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## Frogman

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> *@agentny17*
> *
> dont you accept the true yet?*



So why couldn't they demand that the authorities hand him over for questioning on charges of inciting hatred/violence and the killing of protesters (like they have with other MB officials). Im sure doing that would have been much easier than plotting the death of 24 conscripts. If this man has nothing to hide and is innocent of charges then why is he hiding in Gaza?

You're not very bright are you....

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## agentny17

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> *@agentny17*
> *
> dont you accept the true yet?*


I don't believe in conspiracy theories dude!! The families of the victims were on TV yesterday and it takes an idiot to believe such accusation, especially when you don't have any evidences to support your accusations. You have no clue about the structure of the Egyptian security forces to think something like that would happen. The Egyptian army, police, security forces are national forces not sectarian forces. For you, to think what happened in Syria would happen in Egypt shows how clueless you are about the whole situation in Egypt.


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## qamar1990

agentny17 said:


> Enjoying your parallel universe ?



Kind if I answer I expect when you have no explanation for your army


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## agentny17

qamar1990 said:


> Kind if I answer I expect when you have no explanation for your army


I don't need to explain anything to you. We have a terrorist organization in our country and our security forces have been smashing their heads. I am only answering because i am a nice person  . My answers or explanations won't change any of these facts or change how Egyptians or others view the sitituion. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. 
If you can go back and check my earlier posts you would see that i was one person who was willing to give the Islamists, and the Muslim Brotherhood a chance in power(Althu i never voted for them,) but i was wrong. Once a criminal always a criminal. Once a terrorist always a terrorist.


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## gtrr

If every countries terrorist enemy was the mild mannered Morsi and his Muslim Brotherhood the World would be in a better place than it is now.


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## revojam

agentny17 said:


> Group of delusion and terrorism



Victim muslims my ***... They are firing againts police forces killing and here in PDF sharia lovers playing victim muslim card(as always) god knows what would happen if we were to bring guns to Gezi Park and shoot againts anti-riot forces.

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## islamrules

An Egyptian said:"We pray 6 prayers a day now: Fajr, Dhuhr, Asr, Maghrib, Isha...and Janazah (Funeral).


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## agentny17

revojam said:


> Victim muslims my ***... They are firing againts police forces killing and here in PDF sharia lovers playing victim muslim card(as always) god knows what would happen if we were to bring guns to Gezi Park and shoot againts anti-riot forces.


Double standard by Islamists at its best!! When Morsi was a president, he actually sent his supporters in the street to attack and kill protesters and they did!! They see the world from one side only, their side and that is why they always fail!!

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## Ceylal

gtrr said:


> If every countries terrorist enemy was the* mild mannered Morsi* and his Muslim Brotherhood the World would be in a better place than it is now.


By mild, you mean to local Pakistanis? Politic Islam is never mild, never will be. The Egyptian army gave them the right dose of rat killer...

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## islamrules

sharia lovers ?!! can u be a muslim without being a sharia lover ? No u can not . @agentny17 is christian and @Frogman is agnostic and u must be (from ur avatar) in between an atheist or a secular agnostic .


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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> sharia lovers ?!! can u be a muslim without being a sharia lover ? No u can not . @agentny17 is christian and @Frogman is agnostic and u must be (from ur avatar) in between an atheist or a secular agnostic .



I'm not quite sure what my Avatar or my political views have to do with my religious beliefs or vis versa.


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## agentny17

islamrules said:


> sharia lovers ?!! can u be a muslim without being a sharia lover ? No u can not . @agentny17 is christian and @Frogman is agnostic and u must be (from ur avatar) in between an atheist or a secular agnostic .


I am Christian now ??? That is news to me, sir!! I have no problem if you want to apply sharia laws on yourself, but don't get this laws near me if you want me to accept you.

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## Ceylal

hussain0216 said:


> The people in the egyptian army have stood against god and slaughtered thousands of innocent Muslims


If you didn't know it yet, God abandoned the Muslim when Saddam added his name to the Iraqi flag.



> Their brutal and cruel nationalism will get them hellfire


 Who's gonna light it, A Muslim from the brotherhood



> We have the quran for guidance and people like the egyptian soldiers and liberals are clearly described



Are you confusing national geographic with the holly book?




> The egyptian soldiers will now face judgement, better get your excuses ready boys for betraying god, & they better be good


It looks like god was with the Egyptian majority, army and Sissy included.



> I hope they enjoy what's waiting for them



Centuries of peace.

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## agentny17

*Egypt govt.: Removal of Morsy was &#8216;creative democracy&#8217;
*
* &#8221;On arresting the Muslim Brotherhood Supreme Guide, I wouldn&#8217;t say just a victory from a vindictive standpoint, but from the standpoint that we are restoring law and order in a country which has its own sovereign rights, &#8221;ElMostafa Hegazy told CNN&#8217;s Hala Gorani
* Hegazy, speaking from Cairo, said that the military ousting of Mohamed Morsy from the Egyptian presidency was necessary because Morsy &#8220;and his group, and his militias, has been terrorizing Egyptian, I would say at least emotionally.&#8221;
* &#8220;Maybe it&#8217;s a kind of creative democracy that we haven&#8217;t seen,&#8221; Hegazy contended, &#8220;but because we didn&#8217;t have the process of impeaching the president through a parliament, we had to do it the way that we&#8217;ve done it.&#8221;
* &#8220;We&#8217;re having a war of terrorism against the Egyptian people and the Egyptian state,&#8221; Hegazy said.
* &#8220;We are having a constitution in 60 days or maybe a bit less or a bit more from today,&#8221; he told Gorani.

Once a constitution is in place and it is approved by referendum, he said, Egypt will hold parliamentary elections within 15 days; two months after that they will call for presidential elections.

&#8220;The first stage of our roadmap to the future has been completed,&#8221; Hegazy said.

***** This is one of the comments on the article, but i can not confirm it since i don't have a link to the whole interview but i though i would share it.
Dr. Mostafa Hegazy said. He said: what Morsi did on the 21st of November 2012 when he confiscated the judicial system in Egypt is CREATIVE DEMOCRACY! HE DID NOT SAY THAT REMOVING MORSI WAS CREATIVE DEMOCRACY!!! I can't believe how incompetent CNN is!!!! WOW!!!

Link to the story and you can watch the whole interview there as well: Egypt govt.: Removal of Morsy was



Ceylal said:


> If you didn't know it yet, God abandoned the Muslim when Saddam added his name to the Iraqi flag.
> 
> 
> Who's gonna light it, A Muslim from the brotherhood
> 
> 
> 
> Are you confusing national geographic with the holly book?
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like god was with the Egyptian majority, army and Sissy included.
> 
> 
> 
> Centuries of peace.



Their God hasn't supported them for centuries, maybe your God is against you, idiots. Think about it


----------



## hussain0216

Life is short, but God is eternal

The liberal kaffir and Christians in Egypt have supported brutality abd slaughter of the innocent people

What options are there left other than the extermination of the copts and liberals these people are a disease

Like the quresh they are haunting the faithful, they must be removed from Egypt in order for their to be peace


These liberal fascists and copts have ruled through their dictators for details decades now

They have never won a war they have only bought Egypt shame and failure

Time to send the kaffir to hell


----------



## Frogman

hussain0216 said:


> Life is short, but God is eternal
> 
> The liberal kaffir and Christians in Egypt have supported brutality abd slaughter of the innocent people
> 
> What options are there left other than the extermination of the copts and liberals these people are a disease
> 
> Like the quresh they are haunting the faithful, they must be removed from Egypt in order for their to be peace
> 
> 
> These liberal fascists and copts have ruled through their dictators for details decades now
> 
> They have never won a war they have only bought Egypt shame and failure
> 
> Time to send the kaffir to hell



Cant you see that you and those you criticize (wrongly and harshly most times) are the opposite sides of the same coin.


----------



## qamar1990

agentny17 said:


> I don't need to explain anything to you. We have a terrorist organization in our country and our security forces have been smashing their heads. I am only answering because i am a nice person  . My answers or explanations won't change any of these facts or change how Egyptians or others view the sitituion. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.
> If you can go back and check my earlier posts you would see that i was one person who was willing to give the Islamists, and the Muslim Brotherhood a chance in power(Althu i never voted for them,) but i was wrong. Once a criminal always a criminal. Once a terrorist always a terrorist.



so once a military dictatorship always a military dictatorship?
once a lying ruler from military who suppressed his people always a lying ruler from the military who suppresses his people.
what logic you bud lol.


----------



## agentny17

hussain0216 said:


> Life is short, but God is eternal
> 
> The liberal kaffir and Christians in Egypt have supported brutality abd slaughter of the innocent people
> 
> What options are there left other than the extermination of the copts and liberals these people are a disease
> 
> Like the quresh they are haunting the faithful, they must be removed from Egypt in order for their to be peace
> 
> 
> These liberal fascists and copts have ruled through their dictators for details decades now
> 
> They have never won a war they have only bought Egypt shame and failure
> 
> Time to send the kaffir to hell


Just for the sake of argument lets just say that Liberals, Kaffirs, Christians are the ones to blame for Morsi's ouster. Doesn't that make them the majority ?!! 
Now, if you are really planning to exterminate us, can you get it done with as soon as you can ? You guys have basically disappeared from the streets the past 2 days, let alone exterminate us, so please show up and exterminate us, tough guy. Unbelievable i swear smh. Do you watch a lot of cartoons ?



qamar1990 said:


> so once a military dictatorship always a military dictatorship?
> once a lying ruler from military who suppressed his people always a lying ruler from the military who suppresses his people.
> what logic you bud lol.


You win again, good job!!


----------



## hussain0216

Decades of brutal liberal haramii dictatorship

What have they done, what wars did they win, how did they help the egyptian people, 

They are useless they grew rich at the expense of the egyptian people

Mubarak was a billionaire for gods sake



The M.B won 5 elections in a row talk about a friken mandate


Under a year and the same liberal haramii are back killed thousands

About to forgive and release mubarak

The party who won 5 elections in a row being rounded up


This is beyond injustice


This if nothing else means that the only path to peacefor eEgypt is that the liberals and copts are destroyed and the military purged

Otherwise you will have Pharaoh's forever


----------



## Algeria

Egypt's ElBaradei faces charge over betrayal of 'national trust'
Egypt's ElBaradei faces charges for 'betrayal of trust' | Al Jazeera America
HAHAHA


----------



## hussain0216

agentny17 said:


> Just for the sake of argument lets just say that Liberals, Kaffirs, Christians are the ones to blame for Morsi's ouster. Doesn't that make them the majority ?!!
> Now, if you are really planning to exterminate us, can you get it done with as soon as you can ? You guys have basically disappeared from the streets the past 2 days, let alone exterminate us, so please show up and exterminate us, tough guy. Unbelievable i swear smh. Do you watch a lot of cartoons ?
> 
> 
> You win again, good job!!



Don't worry sunshine

Egypt won't be successful
Your economy is a basket case

You can't beg for aid forever and the turmoil is hitting you hard

Without the brotherhood whivh represents a massive portion of Egypt your government will always be illegitimate


After the M.B the salafists are strong party especially if some M.B supporter's vote for them, they are also supported by Saudi

Major liberal figures have abandoned you

The world mocks and pity's you




Nothing is going to improve anytime soon and unless your massive under pressure population sees major improvements jobs and a better life your new joke government will be screwed

The M.B will be back the salafist are already here

Next time

And mark my words their WILL be s next time when either the M.B or salafists get into power they will know that the liberals and copts need to be exterminated in order for them to rule



You have had it lucky with the moderate M.B


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## qamar1990

revojam said:


> Victim muslims my ***... They are firing againts police forces killing and here in PDF sharia lovers playing victim muslim card(as always) god knows what would happen if we were to bring guns to Gezi Park and shoot againts anti-riot forces.




get your alawi *** out of here.



agentny17 said:


> Just for the sake of argument lets just say that Liberals, Kaffirs, Christians are the ones to blame for Morsi's ouster. Doesn't that make them the majority ?!!
> Now, if you are really planning to exterminate us, can you get it done with as soon as you can ? You guys have basically disappeared from the streets the past 2 days, let alone exterminate us, so please show up and exterminate us, tough guy. Unbelievable i swear smh. Do you watch a lot of cartoons ?
> 
> 
> You win again, good job!!




how do i win? its not about winning, your people are dying by the hundreds and your acting like your head is up your *** bud, your country will turn into another syria if this bs the military started doesnt stop. i have Egyptian friends so i know they are good people and they tell me that this military is at fault so the military needs to stop and sisi put on trial for treason and murder.

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## iranigirl2

*&#8220;We have seen zero indication that the Muslim Brotherhood as an organization is organizing these attacks,&#8221; said a high-ranking Western official who was not authorized to speak on the record. The official said the blame more likely rested with Islamist vigilantes rather than Brotherhood members acting on orders.*



http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...902866-09bc-11e3-9941-6711ed662e71_story.html


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## VelocuR

^^



Zakii said:


> @iranigirl2
> 
> Please change your country flag to correct locations. You are not located in Iran.


 @Zakii, she will ignore your warning, otherwise you will be banned. 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/announcements/262411-country-flags-5.html


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## HRK

*Muslim Brotherhood names interim leader after supreme guide Mohammad Badie arrested*
*By Richard Spencer, Cairo 2:00PM BST 20 Aug 2013*







The interior ministry triumphantly released pictures of a disconsolate-looking Mr Badie, 70, sitting on a sofa beside a table as the police prepared to take him away in the early hours of Tuesday morning.

But the Brotherhood declared that *Mr. Badie was just "one individual"* and that his arrest would make no difference to their campaign against the new military-backed rulers.

*"Mahmoud Ezzat, deputy leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, will assume the role of supreme guide of the group on a temporary basis* after the security forces of the bloody military coup arrested supreme guide Mohamed Badie," the website of the Brotherhood's political front, the Freedom and Justice Party, said.

At a press conference, the Brotherhood-led "National Coalition for Legitimacy" said *there would now be a campaign of civil disobedience and a boycott of state-linked companies and media.*

Mr. Ezzat is one of a number of deputy leaders of the Brotherhood. He is part of a faction led by the most powerful deputy, and the organisation's chief strategist, Khairat al-Shater, who is already under arrest.

*Mr. Shater and Mr. Badie both face charges of incitement to murder* over allegations that Brotherhood supporters killed protesters attacking the organisation's headquarters during the demonstrations that led to Mr Morsi's removal on June 30.

Mr Badie was discovered in an apartment in Nasr City in north-east Cairo near the Rabaa al-Adawiya Mosque, the centre of a six week-long protest against the military's intervention to remove the former president, Mohammed Morsi, from office, until it was cleared by force last week.

Mr Badie spent the protests hiding out in one of the mosque's inner rooms with other Brotherhood leaders for whom arrest warrants had been issued, emerging once to give a speech to supporters. They were all spirited away as the police and army assault got under way.

Egypt crisis: Muslim Brotherhood names interim leader after supreme guide Mohammed Badie arrested - Telegraph

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Muslim Brotherhood leader arrested in Egypt*
By Abeer Allam in Cairo

Mohamed Badie, leader of Egypt&#8217;s Muslim Brotherhood, has been arrested and ordered detained for 15 days in Cairo as the country&#8217;s security forces continue their crackdown on the Islamist group.

*Meanwhile on Tuesday a Cairo court set a September trial date for Mohamed ElBaradei, Egypt&#8217;s recently resigned interim vice-president for foreign affairs, on charges of &#8220;breaching National Trust&#8221;, according to the state-owned Al-Ahram newspaper.
*
Mr ElBaradei resigned last week in protest at the killing of hundreds of Islamists by the security forces during the clearing of two sit-ins by Mohamed Morsi&#8217;s supporters. Since then he has been the target of what appears to be an orchestrated smear campaign in the Egyptian media. He is now in Austria, where he travelled after his resignation.

*Mr Badie and Khairat el-Shater, his deputy who is also detained, are accused of instigating the killing of eight protesters outside the Brotherhood&#8217;s Cairo headquarters in June.*

_*&#8220;Clearly, the arrest is part of the effort to decapitate the Muslim Brotherhood. Badie is perhaps not as powerful as Shater, but destroying the organisation&#8217;s leadership could lead to increased violence,&#8221; *_said Steven A. Cook, Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations.

Muslim Brotherhood leader arrested in Egypt - FT.com


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## Mosamania

Saudi Air Bridge begins operations to Egypt. 16 C-130s in constant flights from and to Egyot.

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## agentny17

qamar1990 said:


> get your alawi *** out of here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how do i win? its not about winning, your people are dying by the hundreds and your acting like your head is up your *** bud, your country will turn into another syria* if this bs the military started doesnt stop.* i have Egyptian friends so i know they are good people and they tell me that this military is at fault so the military needs to stop and sisi put on trial for treason and murder.


You wish and it won't.... If it does, then i have no problem fighting Terrorists but it will not turn into another Syria, keep dreaming!!



Mosamania said:


> Saudi Air Bridge begins operations to Egypt. 16 C-130s in constant flights from and to Egyot.



Thanks brother!! We owe you big time.


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## agentny17

Islamist preacher and one of the most vocal Islamists who was threatening to turn the country into rivers of blood, if Morsi was ousted has been arrested on his way to Libya couple of minutes ago. He was last seen on Rabiaa stage before security forces cleared the sit-in. Last words he said that they would stop the security forces or die as a martyr. Well it seems jihad in Egypt is over and Libya was his next jihad place. He was found with shaved beard. This whole situation explains the state of the Muslims Brotherhood, FALLING APART 
His pictures couple of days ago











Pictures after his arrest with a Douglas


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## Jihad_

Remember these false flag terrorist attacks on Coptic Churches from regime, like this one?

Ex-minister suspected behind Alex church bombing


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## MooshMoosh

agentny17 said:


> Pictures of churches burnt by the Muslim Brotherhood and their supporters all across Egypt after the ouster of former president Morsi. Over 70 churches have been attacked so far


I remembered last weekend, group of Pro supporters were holding fake beards found inside the churches, it was the scums who supported El Pissi. You haven't provide any evidence that Pro supporters did it. The acting was fake to deceive others. General El Pissi said he was going to rebuild the churches but what about the masjeds that were burnt down? Why was their snipers on the top of the churches so nice try. I just posted before there are two faces of Coptics; there are Coptics in our side, the other side is the rich (tycoons) who controls the Egyptian media and the Popes who are Mubarak loyalist who doesn't represent the majority. They all need to be killed for spreading propaganda. 









*Anyway back to the topic.*

















*Very emotional* 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10151840671981122








__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=503590279711901





It's not over yet. Algerian protest was nine month then it turned into resistance, Syrian protest was two months then it turned into resistance and it will happen to Egypt if El Pissi doesn't answer the people's call. If people want to stick with the revolution then force is the only solution otherwise you'll live under the military dictatorship because they won't put in MB as a candidate who won twice in July 51% (election) and Demeber 64% (constitution). This is what Turkish president Abdullah Gul predicted that it will turn Egypt into bloodbath. Does this revolutionary emblem looks familiar to you all? ;-)

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## flamer84

hussain0216 said:


> Life is short, but God is eternal
> 
> The liberal kaffir and *Christians in Egypt have supported brutality abd slaughter of the innocent people*
> 
> What options are there left other than the extermination of the copts and liberals these people are a disease
> 
> Like the quresh they are haunting the faithful, they must be removed from Egypt in order for their to be peace
> 
> 
> *These liberal fascists and copts have ruled through their dictators for details decades now*
> 
> They have never won a war they have only bought Egypt shame and failure



Really now? Let's take a look in the last 40 years :

Persecution of Copts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hmm,it doesn't look to me that the cops are really the all powerfull,eternal rulers of Egypt,more likely they are the constant victims of hatred from islamo fascists.



hussain0216 said:


> *Time to send the kaffir to hell*



Time for you to get your a$$ out of a christian country,you're soiling the land with your presence and clearly you're an ungrateful guest.

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## hussain0216

The copts are neck deep in this slaughter, they have supported the uber liberals and military and have blood on their hands.

They are a dangerous group who must be dealt with for their to be peace for the Egyptian people


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## flamer84

hussain0216 said:


> The copts are neck deep in this slaughter, they have supported the uber liberals and military and have blood on their hands.
> 
> They are a dangerous group who must be dealt with for their to be peace for the Egyptian people



I provided you with a link which clearly shows how the copts are under constant agression from islamists for decades now,you've not said a single word about it but instead continued with your unsubstantiated rant.Now ,know this,if your glorious plan is to slaughter christians be prepared to receive the same treatment in Europe and all the tears in the world won't help you then.Quid pro quo.

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## Jihad_

flamer84 said:


> if your glorious plan is to slaughter christians be prepared to receive the same treatment in Europe and all the tears in the world won't help you then.Quid pro quo.



Such plan doesn't exist, but in Europe, nobody cares about Christians elsewhere, they don't feel a bond like muslims do. Because most are atheist.


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## Syrian Lion

Biggest museum theft in Egyptian history: Over 1,000 artifacts stolen ? RT News

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## flamer84

Jihad_ said:


> Such plan doesn't exist, but in Europe, nobody cares about Christians elsewhere, they don't feel a bond like muslims do. Because most are atheist.



Let's see how Europe reacts if islamists start a religious cleansing on state level.Even if there are many atheists in Europe,they won't stay idly by watching muslims live in peace in here while christians are slaughtered on a mass level in a muslim country.You will get the same treatment,no doubts about it.Hate breads hate and you will enter a road of no return,our hospitality and benevolence has limits.
Do you,personally ,do not find anything wrong with that guy who asks for copts to be slaughtered while living in Britain?


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## TopCat

agentny17 said:


> Islamist preacher and one of the most vocal Islamists who was threatening to turn the country into rivers of blood, if Morsi was ousted has been arrested on his way to Libya couple of minutes ago. He was last seen on Rabiaa stage before security forces cleared the sit-in. Last words he said that they would stop the security forces or die as a martyr. Well it seems jihad in Egypt is over and Libya was his next jihad place. He was found with shaved beard. This whole situation explains the state of the Muslims Brotherhood, FALLING APART
> His pictures couple of days ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pictures after his arrest with a Douglas





Why are you so desperate?
Is it that you believe MB cant be defeated through regular ballot?? You need army and revolution to oust them?

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## hussain0216

Great a link to wikipedia...

That dosent absolve the Copts, they are some of the main backers of this military coup and military Junta

They are Enthusiastically supporting the destruction of democracy, a brutal crackdown and the slaughter of the egytptian people. How can they absolved of their actions


Like I said before 

If the Queen of England ended democracy in the UK
Arrested the Prime Minister and held him at an undisclosed location on fake charges
Began to arrest and kill all elected officials in parliament
Filled parliament with stooges and lackeys

And intiated a bloody massacre of innocent people folowed by a campaign of oppression.


If the Queen of england did all that and British Muslims supported her in her brutal quest then FINE go after the british muslims



This is what the copts have done in Egypt


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## flamer84

@hussain0216 You're a deranged individual and is actually my fault that i've let myself drawn in your cercle of hate when is obvious that the majority of egyptians don't support your views,have fun in enjoying the extermination of your kind (and by that i mean islamo fascists not muslims) in Egypt,I know I will.

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## Mozambique Drill

flamer84 said:


> @hussain0216 You're a deranged individual and is actually my fault that i've let myself drawn in your cercle of hate when is obvious that the majority of egyptians don't support your views,have fun in enjoying the extermination of your kind (and by that i mean islamo fascists not muslims) in Egypt,I know I will.



He's the kind of Muslim that all British people want to deport.

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## flamer84

Mozambique Drill said:


> He's the kind of Muslim that all British people want to deport.



Yep,i suspect he is Anjem Choudary behind a laptop.

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## hussain0216

Thousands of Egyptians being slaughtered, the military junta rampant, supported by the copts and the liberals

No, no I dont think silence is an option


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## MooshMoosh

..............


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## agentny17

iajdani said:


> Why are you so desperate?
> Is it that you believe MB cant be defeated through regular ballot?? You need army and revolution to oust them?


No .


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## agentny17

Egypt fight terrorism!!(English Translation and Caption) Must watch


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## kalu_miah

MooshMoosh said:


> I remembered last weekend, group of Pro supporters were holding fake beards found inside the churches, it was the scums who supported El Pissi. You haven't provide any evidence that Pro supporters did it. The acting was fake to deceive others. General El Pissi said he was going to rebuild the churches but what about the masjeds that were burnt down? Why was their snipers on the top of the churches so nice try. I just posted before there are two faces of Coptics; there are Coptics in our side, the other side is the rich (tycoons) who controls the Egyptian media and the Popes who are Mubarak loyalist who doesn't represent the majority. They all need to be killed for spreading propaganda.
> 
> It's not over yet. Algerian protest was nine month then it turned into resistance, Syrian protest was two months then it turned into resistance and it will happen to Egypt if El Pissi doesn't answer the people's call. If people want to stick with the revolution then force is the only solution otherwise you'll live under the military dictatorship because they won't put in MB as a candidate who won twice in July 51% (election) and Demeber 64% (constitution). This is what Turkish president Abdullah Gul predicted that it will turn Egypt into bloodbath. Does this revolutionary emblem looks familiar to you all? ;-)



Its clear that the rich and powerful Copts have sold out the interest of the Coptic nation, but please do not call for killing of even these few Christians, such attitudes will be used by enemies of Muslims, they will say that the Muslim extremists in Egypt are killing Christians. The few bad apple Copts will pay for their misdeeds in due course of time.

The world is a harsh place and you have to be extra careful when there are people who consider you as threat and want to eliminate your existence. I personally blame the Brotherhood leadership for this situation, they failed to understand the nature of threats against them.

But Egyptian democracy is bigger than Muslim Brotherhood. Just because Brotherhood lost power in a coup, it is not the end of the world for Egypt or vast majority of Brotherhood supporters. Sisi and his followers can try to destroy the organization but they will not be able to eliminate the idea and ideology of Brotherhood. Look at the example in Turkey. If people want to pursue and follow a certain ideology, they just need to wait for the correct environment and in the mean time, help elect people who will advance the cause of democracy in Egypt under whatever banner or party.

Sisi may be able to take Brotherhood out of the picture temporarily, but he will not able to stop democracy, because if there is no election soon the Egyptian people will then turn against Sisi and Brotherhood supporters can then support the people in this anti-Sisi movement for the restoration of democracy.

There is no need to create another civil war in the Arab world right this moment, just because Brotherhood lost power, because of their own shortsighted leadership. I think Egyptian masses will not forgive the remaining Brotherhood leadership, if they choose the course of insurgency and destroy the country as a result, which will be the biggest gift to enemies of Sunni Arabs and Muslims - Israel and Iran.


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## Jihad_



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## kalu_miah

Jihad_ said:


>



I am a big fan of Malcolm x, but he was not careful enough, result he died and his dreams and plans with him.

My answer to his quote:

Sometimes we bring oppression on to ourselves with poor planning and strategy.

You should check out this post:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...-any-western-sanctions-egypt.html#post4673436


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## islamrules

kalu_miah said:


> I am a big fan of Malcolm x, but he was not careful enough, result he died and his dreams and plans with him.
> 
> My answer to his quote:
> 
> Sometimes we bring oppression on to ourselves with poor planning and strategy.
> 
> You should check out this post:
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...-any-western-sanctions-egypt.html#post4673436



maybe brother but the biggest smartest muslims in History died in the hands of munafiqnes n kuffars, starting from sayiduna Omar, Othman , Ali , Hassan Banna, Malcom X , were they unstrategic in their thinking ? no , sometimes all what's happening is to test the believers n pick shuhada from amongst them.
Allah "swt" says :If a wound should touch you - there has already touched the [opposing] people a wound similar to it. And these days [of varying conditions] We alternate among the people so that Allah may make evident those who believe and [may] take to Himself from among you martyrs - and Allah does not like the wrongdoers - Al Imran 140

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## kalu_miah

islamrules said:


> maybe brother but the biggest smartest muslims in History died in the hands of munafiqnes n kuffars, starting from sayiduna Omar, Othman , Ali , Hassan Banna, Malcom X , were they unstrategic in their thinking ? no , sometimes all what's happening is to test the believers n pick shuhada from amongst them.
> Allah "swt" says :If a wound should touch you - there has already touched the [opposing] people a wound similar to it. And these days [of varying conditions] We alternate among the people so that Allah may make evident those who believe and [may] take to Himself from among you martyrs - and Allah does not like the wrongdoers - Al Imran 140



No question, becoming Shahid for the cause of Islam and Muslims is an act of honor. But there has to be a winning strategy and dying for advancing a winning cause is much better than futile and needless deaths that hurts our cause.

Some people blame Israel for the Sisi coup, some people say it was GCC govts., it could be that there was support from both, I don't know behind the scene story. But what I know is this that Al Thani family of Qatar made a deal with MB, to back MB in return for non-interference in their internal affairs and for preferential treatment from MB ruled govts. Why couldn't MB seek similar deals with KSA, UAE and other GCC states? If MB leadership could manage a deal like this with rest of GCC govts., was it still possible for Israel to engineer a coup like this one using Tamarod? If there was a deal like this, then was it possible to turn the Egypt situation into something similar to the situation in Syria, a lone dictator, stacked against all GCC states and the rest of Sunni Arab and Muslim world?

I think MB has lost this round and they have no choice but to wait for the next round. If MB is banned, in next election the supporters should vote for the candidates of their liking, from among the ones that are running. Its possible that Sisi will try to elect himself in a rigged election, then it will be time for MB to join the Egyptian masses to bring Sisi down, at that time. But for now, the time is now to wait for the next opportunity and regroup.

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## idune

Saudis have no clue in broader sense of geo strategy and long term vision. Despite all surface noise about difference of views between Saudis and west, Saudis will jump (or let to do that) for a while because at the moment their money will be used as leverage for western/zionist goal. Saudis, more specifically house of saud, occupier of two holy places of Islam, will be sent for bottom fishing, just like Qatar.

And smart mind will send Saudis in goose chase of dominance in ME which will never be theirs and exhaust Saudi money thin. There are many projects western corporate houses are planning - label-chase-freeze-destroy-rebuild/contract format never gets old.


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## Ceylal

hussain0216 said:


> Thousands of Egyptians being slaughtered, the military junta rampant, supported by the copts and the liberals



Liberal's reply...











*After all the talk about Mohammed who was a Prophet, we forgot the Mohamed who is unemployed, the Mohamed without a house, the Mohamed without a shelter, the Mohamed without work and all the Mohamed that live as slaves under the regimes that are ruled by those who claim to be descendant of Mohamed the Prophet...
* Kateb Yacine.
If we are liberals we know why, and if the Ikhwan were kicked to the curve, we understand why...


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## idune

Ceylal said:


> Liberal's reply...
> If we are liberals we know why, and if the Ikhwan were kicked to the curve, we understand why...



You liberals were used as tool for Saudis/zions and west because you could server their interest. But they do not guarantee your interest of power instead you bloodied your hand with genocide. You are now liability for Sisi and Saudi type and cold blooded murderer to majority population of Egypt. Your deceptive murderous skin all exposed and in worse position in the long term. But dont worry we would not even pity you.


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## kalu_miah

idune said:


> Saudis have no clue in broader sense of geo strategy and long term vision. Despite all surface noise about difference of views between Saudis and west, Saudis will jump (or let to do that) for a while because at the moment their money will be used as leverage for western/zionist goal. Saudis, more specifically house of saud, occupier of two holy places of Islam, will be sent for bottom fishing, just like Qatar.
> 
> And smart mind will send Saudis in goose chase of dominance in ME which will never be theirs and exhaust Saudi money thin. There are many projects western corporate houses are planning - label-chase-freeze-destroy-rebuild/contract format never gets old.



If the Saudi's do not have long term vision, according to you, then is it not your duty to share your long term vision with them, as they too are our brothers, are they not?

Saudi's have done quite a bit for Bangladesh and many other Muslim countries, the least we could do is show some gratitude and try to give advice, if we see mistakes in their strategy.

Marking them as our enemy, I think is wrong strategy, then that will prompt them more to lean towards our enemy.


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## hussain0216

Of course the liberals support this, they are the enemies of the Muslims, they have blood on their hands they are guilty remember this the next time you ***** and whine of the cruelty of your islamists

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## idune

kalu_miah said:


> If the Saudi's do not have long term vision, according to you, then is it not your duty to share your long term vision with them, as they too are our brothers, are they not?
> 
> Saudi's have done quite a bit for Bangladesh and many other Muslim countries, the least we could do is show some gratitude and try to give advice, if we see mistakes in their strategy.
> 
> Marking them as our enemy, I think is wrong strategy, then that will prompt them more to lean towards our enemy.



Who gave you right to dictate what is one's duty or can discuss??? Saudis did lots of things for Bangladesh in the past but that does not exempt them from liability they are creating by supporting cold blooded genocide. As for today, Saudis are more aligned with indian plan and wishes than Bangladesh. Besides, when I am talking about Saudis, these are house of Saud and elite class who are plundering saudi wealth, I am not talking about general Saudi population. NO ONE making Saudis enemy except few elites representing house of Saud point of view. So DON'T propagate falsehood for your agenda.


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## Syrian Lion

EU suspends arms deliveries to Egypt ? RT News


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## kalu_miah

idune said:


> Who gave you right to dictate what is one's duty or can discuss??? Saudis did lots of things for Bangladesh in the past but that does not exempt them from liability they are creating by supporting cold blooded genocide. As for today, Saudis are more aligned with indian plan and wishes than Bangladesh. Besides, when I am talking about Saudis, these are house of Saud and elite class who are plundering saudi wealth, I am not talking about general Saudi population. NO ONE making Saudis enemy except few elites representing house of Saud point of view. So DON'T propagate falsehood for your agenda.



Do you have a workable plan to overthrow the House of Saud working with the rest of the Saudi oppressed population? I didn't think so, so next time come back with a better approach to deal with them, instead of this righteous and sanctimonious nonsense.

It is for clueless people like you that MB in Egypt is in bad shape today. And MB in Egypt are not even Assad and Iran supporter like you are.

What say you brother @islamrules


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## Frogman

MB figure Safwat Hegazy sells both (ousted) President Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood when questioned by the authorities.






For you non Arabic speakers:

Firstly, he swears to god (multiple times) that if he knew there was one knife in Rab3a that he would have been the first person to leave.

Secondly, he repeatedly swears to god that he isn't a member of the MB. He then says something unintelligible about terrorism (If someone can make it out I would appreciate that) and continues by saying how incompetent the MB were.

Furthermore, he says he isn't against the ouster of Morsi nor is he against his prosecution.

That's the general gist of it.

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## darkinsky

Syrian Lion said:


> EU suspends arms deliveries to Egypt ? RT News



weapons are not kid's toy


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## idune

kalu_miah said:


> Do you have a workable plan to overthrow the House of Saud working with the rest of the Saudi oppressed population? I didn't think so, so next time come back with a better approach to deal with them, instead of this righteous and sanctimonious nonsense.
> 
> It is for clueless people like you that MB in Egypt is in bad shape today. And MB in Egypt are not even Assad and Iran supporter like you are.
> 
> What say you brother @islamrules



You don't have any answer when your whishy washy bs can not withstand challenge of logic and reality. But you are asking for plan, are you that smart? Perhaps you need to grow habit of reading geo strategic games better rather than coming up with nonsense plan and support for genocide. No wonder we did not hear anything better from you. Oh, just brandishing your academic merit does not mean a jack for many things in the world. Your utterly poor reading of geo politics and forecast shows what I meant. Hope you have that realization by now.


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## idune

Looks like skinning of liberals started in liberal (Saudi) style by liberal supported court. That is epic justice.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Egypt's ElBaradei faces court for 'betrayal of trust'*

Mohamed ElBaradei, Egypt's former vice president, will be sued in court for a "betrayal of trust" over his decision to quit the army-backed government in protest at its bloody crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood.

The case, brought by an Egyptian law professor, will be heard in a Cairo court on September 19, judicial sources said on Tuesday.

It points to the prospect of a new wave of politically driven lawsuits being brought to court following the downfall of President Mohamed Morsi, whose supporters brought a raft of cases against opposition figures during his year in power.

The cases, many of them for "insulting the president", have been criticized by anti-government activists as a form of political intimidation.

ElBaradei, former head of the UN nuclear agency and co-leader of the secular National Salvation Front, was the most prominent liberal to endorse the military's overthrow of President Mohamed Morsi on August 3 following mass protests.

But he made new enemies on August 14 by resigning after security forces used force to crush the protest camps set up by Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood supporters in Cairo, killing hundreds of people.

The military's intervention against Morsi has polarized public opinion in Egypt and around 900 people have died in violence across the country over the past week.

The case was filed by Sayyed Ateeq, a law professor at Helwan University.

"I raised a case against Dr. ElBaradei. He was appointed in his capacity as a representative of the NSF and the majority of the people who signed the Tamarod declaration," he told Reuters, referring to the coalition that led the anti-Morsi protests.

"Dr. ElBaradei was entrusted with this position and he had a duty to go back to those who entrusted him and ask to resign."

Ateeq said that, if found guilty, ElBaradei could face a three year jail sentence. But a judicial source said the maximum sentence that could be imposed in a case of this kind was a fine and a suspended jail term.

Full report:
Egypt's ElBaradei faces court for 'betrayal of trust' - Today's Zaman, your gateway to Turkish daily news


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## Yzd Khalifa

@agentny17 @Frogman @Arabian Legend @Mahmoud_EGY @JUBA @BLACKEAGLE @Mosamania @Bubblegum Crisis 
&#x202b;

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## agentny17

Yzd Khalifa said:


> @agentny17 @Frogman @Arabian Legend @Mahmoud_EGY @JUBA @BLACKEAGLE @Mosamania @Bubblegum Crisis
> &#8235;



Thanks bro!! We owe you big time


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## islamrules

kalu_miah said:


> Do you have a workable plan to overthrow the House of Saud working with the rest of the Saudi oppressed population? I didn't think so, so next time come back with a better approach to deal with them, instead of this righteous and sanctimonious nonsense.
> 
> It is for clueless people like you that MB in Egypt is in bad shape today. And MB in Egypt are not even Assad and Iran supporter like you are.
> 
> What say you brother @islamrules



the fall of the house of Saud is n will be the greatest geo political change in the century bc it means the caliphate will be established n muslims will rule the world ,I can not hide how exited I am for this idea, their fall is a certainty n no one of the Saudi muslim members can deny it bc the correct hadit speaks about tribulations that shall engulf the Arabic Peninsula, it shall be caused by a conflict over power between 3 princes all sons of the same king , that means the house of Saud will collapse from the inside when Allah wills it, n then the Mahdi shall run from these tribulations to Mecca where he will be given bay'a allegiance by the muslims . until then we r stuck with them

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## VelocuR

*Too many Pharaohs: Why the Egyptian revolution failed*







Two years ago, I had just returned from a symposium at Cairo University on The Nonviolent Revolution in Egypt: Learned Lessons. What a difference two years have made for the hopes and dreams of Egyptians for a transition to democracy after the decades of autocratic rule by Hosni Mubarak.

The symposium was jointly sponsored by the Center for Civilization Studies and Dialogue of Cultures (CCSDC) at the Department of Political Science at Cairo University, the International Center on Nonviolent Conflict, and the Kroc Institute for International Peace Studies at the University of Notre Dame. Many of those who had led the January 25 revolution, so identified with the protests in Tahrir Square, were present at the conference. Hopes were high that Egypt was beginning a successful transition to democracy.

As I asked in my 2011 On Faith column, written after I returned from this conference in Egypt, Can the spirit of Tahrir Square survive in the transition to democracy?

The answer to that question in 2013 is, decisively, no.

Now the streets and squares of Cairo, places we walked in 2011 to get to and from this conference on nonviolence, are lit with burning cars and stained with blood, as photos of the continuing violence in Egypt show.

What happened?

*What happened is that there continued to be too many Pharaohs in Egypt, too many historically entrenched centers of power. There was no real revolution.*

Two years ago, at the conference, as we discussed the possibility of a transition to democracy in Egypt, Dr. Pakynam Al-Shakarawi, director of the CCSDC, and others, warned that Egyptians needed to find a third way beyond the old entrenched powers. *Many agreed a third way was critical for the transition. We need to let go of our old ideologies and find a new ideology, said Ahmed Abdul-Fattah, a video journalist.

A third way has eluded Egyptians, and instead ideologies have become more hardened.*

As seen in the book of Exodus, there is a biblical lesson here, in terms of the violence that can result when absolute power is confronted.

*Exodus tells how the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt, and how they escaped after a confrontation between the Pharaoh of the time and Moses, the Israelite leader. Millennia ago in Egypt, absolute power and absolute rule went together in the figures of the Pharaohs. These rulers held total power and were thought to be the earthly manifestations of gods. Moses tried to convince Pharaoh to let the Israelite slaves go free, but that Pharaoh hardened his heart (Exodus 8:32) and refused. The slaves escaped, and Pharaoh and his army were destroyed.*

Absolute power does not try to find a third way as spoken of by leaders at the conference two years ago in Cairo on nonviolence. Absolute power hardens its position, and violence is normally the result..

It is not a compliment in contemporary Egypt to call someone a Pharaoh. It is a synonym for tyrant. *In this current Egyptian conflict, being a Pharaoh can mean having an entrenched ideology and refusing to find the third way.*

*Tragically, this is pretty much what has happened in Egypt, except there are more Pharaohs involved, that is, more groups who are determined to hold absolute power.*

Control of the economy is one huge area of struggle.* There is tremendous anger in Egypt about the failure of the economy to deliver decent jobs for people. That was a grievance I heard frequently at the conference in Cairo, but one that continues today. It fueled anger at the rule of President Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood for contributing to the downward economic spiral.*

There is also the profound ideological struggle, the Islamist/liberal divide, as Shadi Hamid, research fellow at Brookings, and expert on Islamist political parties and democratic reform in the Arab world, has said. You can compromise on how to run the economy. But when it comes to the very nature of the state, there is a real divide in Egyptian society about how those things should look.

*That is, no third way was found and now the violent crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood by the military, as well as labeling the Brotherhood terrorists, has made the divide even wider.

The U.S. and its allies were close to a peace deal to end the crisis in Egypt. But the military backed government hardened its heart and moved ahead with a violent suppression of the pro-Morsi protestors.*

The Muslim Brotherhood then called for a Day of Rage, and more deaths and injuries occurred.

Attacks on Coptic Christians and their churches by pro-Morsi groups have also resulted in fatalities, as political violence, with a sectarian edge, continues to escalate. Coptic Christians have long felt persecuted in Egypt, and opposed the rule of Morsi and the Brotherhood. They also backed the military coup that overthrew the Morsi regime.

*The violence now threatens to spiral out of control in Egypt, and many Egyptians still look to the military to provide order.

The liberals and secularists in Egypt by and large backed the militarys overthrow of Morsi, and they have been adopting the militarys line that crushing the pro-Morsi protests is a War on Terror.*

A significant exception to this is Egyptian Vice President Mohamed ElBaradei, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate, who resigned from the interim government in protest over the security forces use of such violence against the protestors. I saw that there were peaceful ways to end this clash in society; there were proposed and acceptable solutions for beginnings that would take us to national consensus, he wrote in a resignation letter. It has become difficult for me to continue bearing responsibility for decisions that I do not agree with and whose consequences I fear. I cannot bear the responsibility for one drop of blood.

Another third way option closed.

Despite ElBaradeis words and principled action, however, the Egyptian military is still widely trusted in Egypt, even after the recent bloodshed. I was truly amazed at this sense, represented even two years ago at the conference on nonviolence in Cairo, that the military is the protector of the people.

*The military has its own agenda, in my view, and it is not democracy.*

It is crucial that these groups recognize, as Dahlia Kholaif wrote for Al Jazeera, that the military, has vast economic interests. She quotes Robert Springborg, an expert on Egypts armed forces and a professor in the department of national security at the Naval Postgraduate School in California. The question isnt what sectors do they invest in, but rather: is there a sector that they dont invest in?

Far from being the protector of the people, the military surely has, as its primary goal, protecting its vast economic interests.

*The reason the Egyptian revolution of 2011 failed is because it wasnt a revolution. It was a genuine protest movement by the Egyptian people, but the outcome was merely a change of players at the top, orchestrated by the military. The Muslim Brotherhood consistently manipulated and consolidated its own power through and after the elections; yet corrupt Mubarak-era figures continued. And when the military didnt like that outcome, they moved the players around again.*

*The Egyptian military is the biggest Pharaoh in the room, and it has been, for a very long time.*

Dr. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite is Professor of Theology at Chicago Theological Seminary and its immediate past President. She is also a Senior Fellow at the Center for American Progress. Her most recent book is #OccupytheBible: What Jesus Really Said (and Did) About Money and Power.

Too many Pharaohs: Why the Egyptian revolution failed

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## BlueWarrior

> *Mali jihadist group expands, vows attacks in Egypt*
> 
> NOUAKCHOTT, Mauritania (AP) &#8212; A Malian jihadist group says it is joining forces with Islamic extremists who are loyal to the alleged mastermind of an attack on an Algerian gas plant.
> 
> In the statement posted Thursday on a Mauritanian web site, *the newly aligned forces are also vowing to stage attacks in Egypt.*
> 
> The Movement for Oneness and Jihad in West Africa, which seized control of Gao in northern Mali last year, was later forced to retreat into the desert after the French-led military intervention.
> 
> It says it is now *joining forces with Moktar Belmoktar, who broke away from al-Qaida's North African branch to start his own group.*
> 
> The statement was carried by the Nouakchott Information Agency, which is often used by jihadists in West Africa to post messages.


http://www.newsdaily.com/world/8092...-jihadist-group-expands-vows-attacks-in-egypt 



> *The barrier of fear is returning. It is coming back stronger than before. The police were humiliated after the January 25 revolution and they want to restore their authority... The excuse will be anti-terrorism, the same excuse Bashar al-Assad uses in Syria," he said. "We'll end up a jungle like Syria."*



http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE97K0Z220130821?irpc=932


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

@*Frogman * 
@agentny17

is it correct that the court have ordered prison to release other dictator Mobarak ??
as time goes by you have more dictattors..Now they turn Egypt to heaven together..

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## Frogman

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> @*Frogman *
> @agentny17
> 
> is it correct that the court have ordered prison to release other dictator Mobarak ??
> as time goes by you have more dictattors..Now they turn Egypt to heaven together..



Released and put under house arrest until his retrial for being complicit in the killing of protesters (which hes already been convicted of). The same thing would have happened under Morsi. This is a result of a judicial process that's been going on for quite some time.

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## hussain0216

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> @*Frogman *
> @agentny17
> 
> is it correct that the court have ordered prison to release other dictator Mobarak ??
> as time goes by you have more dictattors..Now they turn Egypt to heaven together..






House arrest??? the man is going to live free as a bird, with his Billions, he will be like a God father figure all his old muppets will be there and he will rule behind the scene


Morsi was taken to the same prison Mubarak was held at, make my words this SOB went to meet him and gloat

All dramabaazi


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## Yzd Khalifa

agentny17 said:


> Thanks bro!! We owe you big time



I just can't understand why don't they put it down and share the political future of their country instead of creating chos. 

&#x202b;

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## Frogman

hussain0216 said:


> House arrest??? the man is going to live free as a bird, with his Billions, he will be like a God father figure all his old muppets will be there and he will rule behind the scene
> 
> 
> Morsi was taken to the same prison Mubarak was held at, make my words this SOB went to meet him and gloat
> 
> All dramabaazi



His assets are frozen (unless he is found innocent in his retrial) and he will be under house arrest until his retrial (the decisions already been made).

His retrial is supposed to start in three days (unless its adjourned).

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## agentny17

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I just can't understand why don't they put it down and share the political future of their country instead of creating chos.
> 
> &#8235;



Because they won't have any value if they don't use their dirty tactics in politics, and the country is determined to stop them from using these tactics!! The mosques which i built with my taxes money and the mosque preacher who i pay him with my taxes money can NOT tell people that i am a kaffir and can NOT tell people to vote one way or another. This is just one example of the stupidity they do!!

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## hussain0216

You are a kaffir

Slaughter thousands, destroy democracy and bring back a military junta

You have blood on your hands

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## Doritos11

hussain0216 said:


> You are a kaffir
> 
> Slaughter thousands, destroy democracy and bring back a military junta
> 
> You have blood on your hands



kaffir british army controlls your ***, keep that in mind

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## kalu_miah

islamrules said:


> the fall of the house of Saud is n will be the greatest geo political change in the century bc it means the caliphate will be established n muslims will rule the world ,I can not hide how exited I am for this idea, their fall is a certainty n no one of the Saudi muslim members can deny it bc the correct hadit speaks about tribulations that shall engulf the Arabic Peninsula, it shall be caused by a conflict over power between 3 princes all sons of the same king , that means the house of Saud will collapse from the inside when Allah wills it, n then the Mahdi shall run from these tribulations to Mecca where he will be given bay'a allegiance by the muslims . until then *we r stuck with them*



We cannot wish them away, just like we cannot wish away Israel or America from this world. We better come to terms with them and make deals with them.

That there is the crux of the matter, where Muslim Brotherhood screwed up. MB has a deal with Qatar, they forgot to make deals with the rest of GCC states, in the end this mistake cost them the hard work of last few years.

And after loosing the game, instead of retreating they tried to pretend that they still have a shot, this cost them more than a thousand innocent lives.

But all is not lost, there is a precedent of bringing down autocratic dictators and "autocratic" elected officials, so that was a good thing and I think there is way to build on that, if there is national reconciliation between Brotherhood remnants, non-Brotherhood Muslims in the majority and common Copts to oppose Sisi, if he tries to become Mubarak 2.0.

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## hussain0216

Frogman said:


> His assets are frozen (unless he is found innocent in his retrial) and he will be under house arrest until his retrial (the decisions already been made).
> 
> His retrial is supposed to start in three days (unless its adjourned).



You are very naive or being disingenuous on purpose

The man will live like a king

There was no revolution in Egypt in fact you have gone back and it is worse than before

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## kalu_miah

RaptorRX707 said:


> *Too many Pharaohs: Why the Egyptian revolution failed*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two years ago, I had just returned from a symposium at Cairo University on The Nonviolent Revolution in Egypt: Learned Lessons. What a difference two years have made for the hopes and dreams of Egyptians for a transition to democracy after the decades of autocratic rule by Hosni Mubarak.
> 
> The symposium was jointly sponsored by the Center for Civilization Studies and Dialogue of Cultures (CCSDC) at the Department of Political Science at Cairo University, the International Center on Nonviolent Conflict, and the Kroc Institute for International Peace Studies at the University of Notre Dame. Many of those who had led the January 25 revolution, so identified with the protests in Tahrir Square, were present at the conference. Hopes were high that Egypt was beginning a successful transition to democracy.
> 
> As I asked in my 2011 On Faith column, written after I returned from this conference in Egypt, Can the spirit of Tahrir Square survive in the transition to democracy?
> 
> The answer to that question in 2013 is, decisively, no.
> 
> Now the streets and squares of Cairo, places we walked in 2011 to get to and from this conference on nonviolence, are lit with burning cars and stained with blood, as photos of the continuing violence in Egypt show.
> 
> What happened?
> 
> *What happened is that there continued to be too many Pharaohs in Egypt, too many historically entrenched centers of power. There was no real revolution.*
> 
> Two years ago, at the conference, as we discussed the possibility of a transition to democracy in Egypt, Dr. Pakynam Al-Shakarawi, director of the CCSDC, and others, warned that Egyptians needed to find a third way beyond the old entrenched powers. *Many agreed a third way was critical for the transition. We need to let go of our old ideologies and find a new ideology, said Ahmed Abdul-Fattah, a video journalist.
> 
> A third way has eluded Egyptians, and instead ideologies have become more hardened.*
> 
> As seen in the book of Exodus, there is a biblical lesson here, in terms of the violence that can result when absolute power is confronted.
> 
> *Exodus tells how the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt, and how they escaped after a confrontation between the Pharaoh of the time and Moses, the Israelite leader. Millennia ago in Egypt, absolute power and absolute rule went together in the figures of the Pharaohs. These rulers held total power and were thought to be the earthly manifestations of gods. Moses tried to convince Pharaoh to let the Israelite slaves go free, but that Pharaoh hardened his heart (Exodus 8:32) and refused. The slaves escaped, and Pharaoh and his army were destroyed.*
> 
> Absolute power does not try to find a third way as spoken of by leaders at the conference two years ago in Cairo on nonviolence. Absolute power hardens its position, and violence is normally the result..
> 
> It is not a compliment in contemporary Egypt to call someone a Pharaoh. It is a synonym for tyrant. *In this current Egyptian conflict, being a Pharaoh can mean having an entrenched ideology and refusing to find the third way.*
> 
> *Tragically, this is pretty much what has happened in Egypt, except there are more Pharaohs involved, that is, more groups who are determined to hold absolute power.*
> 
> Control of the economy is one huge area of struggle.* There is tremendous anger in Egypt about the failure of the economy to deliver decent jobs for people. That was a grievance I heard frequently at the conference in Cairo, but one that continues today. It fueled anger at the rule of President Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood for contributing to the downward economic spiral.*
> 
> There is also the profound ideological struggle, the Islamist/liberal divide, as Shadi Hamid, research fellow at Brookings, and expert on Islamist political parties and democratic reform in the Arab world, has said. You can compromise on how to run the economy. But when it comes to the very nature of the state, there is a real divide in Egyptian society about how those things should look.
> 
> *That is, no third way was found and now the violent crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood by the military, as well as labeling the Brotherhood terrorists, has made the divide even wider.
> 
> The U.S. and its allies were close to a peace deal to end the crisis in Egypt. But the military backed government hardened its heart and moved ahead with a violent suppression of the pro-Morsi protestors.*
> 
> The Muslim Brotherhood then called for a Day of Rage, and more deaths and injuries occurred.
> 
> Attacks on Coptic Christians and their churches by pro-Morsi groups have also resulted in fatalities, as political violence, with a sectarian edge, continues to escalate. Coptic Christians have long felt persecuted in Egypt, and opposed the rule of Morsi and the Brotherhood. They also backed the military coup that overthrew the Morsi regime.
> 
> *The violence now threatens to spiral out of control in Egypt, and many Egyptians still look to the military to provide order.
> 
> The liberals and secularists in Egypt by and large backed the militarys overthrow of Morsi, and they have been adopting the militarys line that crushing the pro-Morsi protests is a War on Terror.*
> 
> A significant exception to this is Egyptian Vice President Mohamed ElBaradei, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate, who resigned from the interim government in protest over the security forces use of such violence against the protestors. I saw that there were peaceful ways to end this clash in society; there were proposed and acceptable solutions for beginnings that would take us to national consensus, he wrote in a resignation letter. It has become difficult for me to continue bearing responsibility for decisions that I do not agree with and whose consequences I fear. I cannot bear the responsibility for one drop of blood.
> 
> Another third way option closed.
> 
> Despite ElBaradeis words and principled action, however, the Egyptian military is still widely trusted in Egypt, even after the recent bloodshed. I was truly amazed at this sense, represented even two years ago at the conference on nonviolence in Cairo, that the military is the protector of the people.
> 
> *The military has its own agenda, in my view, and it is not democracy.*
> 
> It is crucial that these groups recognize, as Dahlia Kholaif wrote for Al Jazeera, that the military, has vast economic interests. She quotes Robert Springborg, an expert on Egypts armed forces and a professor in the department of national security at the Naval Postgraduate School in California. The question isnt what sectors do they invest in, but rather: is there a sector that they dont invest in?
> 
> Far from being the protector of the people, the military surely has, as its primary goal, protecting its vast economic interests.
> 
> *The reason the Egyptian revolution of 2011 failed is because it wasnt a revolution. It was a genuine protest movement by the Egyptian people, but the outcome was merely a change of players at the top, orchestrated by the military. The Muslim Brotherhood consistently manipulated and consolidated its own power through and after the elections; yet corrupt Mubarak-era figures continued. And when the military didnt like that outcome, they moved the players around again.*
> 
> *The Egyptian military is the biggest Pharaoh in the room, and it has been, for a very long time.*
> 
> Dr. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite is Professor of Theology at Chicago Theological Seminary and its immediate past President. She is also a Senior Fellow at the Center for American Progress. Her most recent book is #OccupytheBible: What Jesus Really Said (and Did) About Money and Power.
> 
> Too many Pharaohs: Why the Egyptian revolution failed



Its obvious that Armed forces, the people with big guns, are the biggest power holder in any underdeveloped country where democracy has not yet sent them packing to limit themselves within the confines of the barracks where they belong. The armed forces job is to deal with external threat, not to usurp the democratic aspirations of the people.

Arab Springs has not failed, what has happened is a temporary set back, due to failure of MB leadership mistakes. If Sisi tries to become Mubarak 2.0, the opposition will come together again and topple him, there is no escaping it. Both Mubarak and Morsi were overthrown with popular uprising that had majority support, regardless of the involvement of outside players. So if and when Sisi become despised by the majority, he can be overthrown, just like these earlier two. Sisi killed more than a thousand with support from Tamarod, if the folks in Tamarod turn against him and join hands with MB to bring him down, no one will be able to save him.

The end goal should be to break the backbone of the Army so they never dare to interfere in politics again, just like it has been done in Turkey.


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## Frogman

hussain0216 said:


> You are very naive or being disingenuous on purpose
> 
> The man will live like a king
> 
> There was no revolution in Egypt in fact you have gone back and it is worse than before



The decision to put him under house arrest was announced by the interim PM Hazem Elbeblawy and Mubarak requested he be moved to the Ma3di military hospital when he was released. He will stay there until he is either convicted in his retrial or convicted in the other cases put to him. Now, if you have anything that proves otherwise then provide it.

There have been no decisions to return his financial assets nor will he require them. Considering the circumstances this case is a sideshow today in Egypt.


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## Hussein

I don't know if it is true but on French main channel, a "so called" expert said Egyptians don't care so much about mubarak
like he was the past 
is it true @Frogman?

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## Frogman

Hussein said:


> I don't know if it is true but on French main channel, a "so called" expert said Egyptians don't care so much about mubarak
> like he was the past
> is it true @Frogman?



The current situation in Egypt is far more important than the whereabouts or the legal position of a former dictator to Egyptians.

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Frogman said:


> Released and put under house arrest until his retrial for being complicit in the killing of protesters (which hes already been convicted of). The same thing would have happened under Morsi. This is a result of a judicial process that's been going on for quite some time.



I dont think Mobarak might be sentenced to jail. At last he will be completely freed and play good police role in politics against Pissi's bad police role to foool people in Egypt. 
Mobarak will participate in election as MB stand banned and Mobarak will reach out a fake frendship hand to MB supporters against Pissi staff. Later both dictators will agree to carry on old order. 

I just could say one thing about Egypt. "Expect what unexpected in Egypt."

Judiciary system of Mozambique or Papua New Guine more advanced and fair than judiciary of Egypt. 
There is no other better way than the ruling goverenment which elected by majority of people through democratically election. 
As long as dictators insist on ruling the country by army power it will may take many more decades till Egypt could reach at stability. This is the bitter truth.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

Hussein said:


> I don't know if it is true but on French main channel, a "so called" expert said Egyptians don't care so much about mubarak
> like he was the past
> is it true @Frogman?


yes i was in tahrir square in 25 jan 2011 it seems like ages ago now i am more interested in the future of Egypt not the past

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## Yzd Khalifa

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> yes i was in tahrir square in 25 jan 2011 it seems like ages ago now i am more interested in the future of Egypt not the past



Not to mention that Mubarak was purely a man of honor, with all of his goods and his bads. I understand how you people had gone through, and I respect the will of the Egyptian people, but during Mubarak's days, I visited Egypt myself and the law and order were maintained 24/7.

It comes as no surprise to many that the court couldn't introduce enough evidence against him to remain behind bars, but it most certainly did with his son and 5 senior politicians.



hussain0216 said:


> You are a kaffir
> 
> Slaughter thousands, destroy democracy and bring back a military junta
> 
> You have blood on your hands



WTF? The hell you talking about? Don't you guys swear allegiance to the queen?


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## darkinsky

*heartly congratulations to the Egyptian brothers

after all Egypt chose not to become Pakistan *

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## Frogman

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> I dont think Mobarak might be sentenced to jail. At last he will be completely freed and play good police role in politics against Pissi's bad police role to foool people in Egypt.
> Mobarak will participate in election as MB stand banned and Mobarak will reach out a fake frendship hand to MB supporters against Pissi staff. Later both dictators will agree to carry on old order.
> 
> I just could say one thing about Egypt. "Expect what unexpected in Egypt."
> 
> Judiciary system of Mozambique or Papua New Guine more advanced and fair than judiciary of Egypt.
> There is no other better way than the ruling goverenment which elected by majority of people through democratically election.
> As long as dictators insist on ruling the country by army power it will may take many more decades till Egypt could reach at stability. This is the bitter truth.



Yes, the 85 year old man who's had several strokes and is practically on his death bed will make a triumphant return to politics and run in elections.


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Not to mention that Mubarak was purely a man of honor, with all of his goods and his bads. I understand how you people had gone through, and I respect the will of the Egyptian people, but during Mubarak's days, I visited Egypt myself and the law and order were maintained 24/7.
> 
> It comes as no surprise to many that the court couldn't introduce enough evidence against him to remain behind bars, but it most certainly did with his son and 5 senior politicians.


you know maybe in the past i would disagree with you but now i know better the future is what matters no one gets all he want and sometimes what we want isnt right i used to think the brotherhood can build that after mubark is gone Egypt will be heaven i later find that politics change everything these who were playing the victim card have became worse than the former regime after seeing death in the street to change Egypt i helped to bring these people to power the people who said to hell with Egypt the same people who said if you dont like it leave and this is our country the extremsts who think they are better than Egyptians and made everything worse mubark with all his mistakes had red lines he wont never cross

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## -SINAN-

And now he cries for real.

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## islamrules

This is the ex vice governor of Alexandria before he turned into a terrorist


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## Jihad_

Expect tomorow in the news:

Secret meeting between West and Qatar to destabilze Egypt.


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## MooshMoosh

It was a scandal by the authorities, disgrace 



























note: sharm el sheikh is popular for tourist.

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## Tanja

Conversation with a Morsi supporter

*FNOTW searches for the voice of the people involved in the conflict. This is a conversation through Facebook with a Morsi supporter, named Mahmoud.*





Egypt (Conversation with Mahmoud, a Morsi supporter) -- Mahmoud is a member of the Facebook group that supports the previous President of Egypt, Mohammed Morsi.

*FNOTW: What do you think caused the protests in Egypt?*

*Mahmoud:* Sisi took advantage of his power and turned against the country's legitimate president, Dr. Mohamed Morsy said the outside world it but the revolution is already a bloody coup which kills all those who oppose or violates killer dictator Sisi and arrested all Boukhafah.

He said he did it for the will of the people for any will of the people talking.

*FNOTW: Are you inside Egypt? Are you near cities that violence is the most extreme?*

*Mahmoud:* There is no extremism but the army and the police just kill us. Lot of people have been killed me in demonstrations.

I was going to Rabaa El Adaweya many times. There were people out there with the utmost peaceful but genocide happened to them by the army, the police. I am now in Abu Zaabal. Detainees inside the prison &#1575;&#1576;&#1608;&#1586;&#1593;&#1576;&#1604; were tortured and killed and burned.

Does this satisfy the international community? Are you happy?

But we will remain peaceful!

*FNOTW: Could you tell me why do you support Morsi?*

*Mahmoud:* It is important that he won the election, whether won in any proportion. This is the first civilian elected president in Egypt, so it was a fight of all state institutions, a Chorth army and the judiciary and media. They do not want him to succeed to try to return the Mubarak regime again.

Where is the law that governs now in Egypt? We are now without identity Sisi destroyed Egypt and destroyed the law. Egyptians have the right to practice politics. He won parliament elections and won and the Shura Council and the presidency by a large margin. 

*FNOTW: What is the role of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt?*

*Mahmoud:* Exercising his political group is far from Mohamed Morsy. Muslim Brotherhood does not interfere in the affairs of governance, but of course has an impact on Morsi.

FNOTW thanks Mahmoud for this conversation.

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## Jihad_

> Tamarrod: The leadership of egyptian army betrayed the nation, and has never been with the revolution





> Tamarrod Army leaders are primarily responsible for the destruction of evidences to condemn Mubarak and his regime



The idiots are waking up.




> Attorney General opens investigation against founders of Tamarrod for trying to "spread chaos" by demanding public trial for Mubarak



Epic!

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## Tanja

Top Muslim Brotherhood member and former MP Ahmed Abu Baraka was arrested by Egyptian security forces Thursday in an apartment in the Sayeda Zeinab district in central Cairo.

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## hussain0216

Jihad_ said:


> The idiots are waking up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Epic!


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Frogman said:


> Yes, the 85 year old man who's had several strokes and is practically on his death bed will make a triumphant return to politics and run in elections.



when poor Mubarak ousted forcibly by people he was 83 years old and had no any intention to give up his throne..do you believe he have seriously changed his mind within 2 years??.

Any how, What about 2.nd scenario: Mr.Morsi will be freed together with Mubarak in order to calm people down..
Mubarak and Pissi are family freinds..It was Mubarak wife Suzan had Pissi met with his current wife.

not forget that reality. as lonf as majority of people live under persecution no comfort for minority. the most fair way out for Egypt is a democracy that convince majority of people..Of course, tthere is no any democracy that satisfy 100% of people and never will be exist..That is why i say RESPECT MAJORITY AND SAVE MINORITY in my signature..

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## Jihad_

Chaos in a Saudi mosque after the imam prays for God to unseat El Sissi. Even igal beating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un_l5tvTNe8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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## Frogman

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> when poor Mubarak ousted forcibly by people he was 83 years old and had no any intention to give up his throne..do you believe he have seriously changed his mind within 2 years??.
> 
> Any how, What about 2.nd scenario: Mr.Morsi will be freed together with Mubarak in order to calm people down..
> Mubarak and Pissi are family freinds..It was Mubarak wife Suzan had Pissi met with his current wife.
> 
> not forget that reality. as lonf as majority of people live under persecution no comfort for minority. the most fair way out for Egypt is a democracy that convince majority of people..Of course, tthere is no any democracy that satisfy 100% of people and never will be exist..That is why i say RESPECT MAJORITY AND SAVE MINORITY in my signature..



He was going to be replaced by his son, Gamal.

The banality.



MooshMoosh said:


> It was a scandal by the authorities, disgrace
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> note: sharm el sheikh is popular for tourist.



So this look alike admitted being Safwat Hegazy, had the national ID of Safwat Hegazy, sounded like Safwat Hegazy but he isn't Safwat Hegazy? 

It's over. I always thought you were trivial but this took the biscuit.


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## Frogman

Jihad_ said:


> The idiots are waking up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Epic!



Epic because it didn't happen. But I guess you're just mistaken.

https://www.facebook.com/Tmrood?hc_location=stream


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## Jihad_

Frogman said:


> Epic because it didn't happen. But I guess you're just mistaken.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Tmrood?hc_location=stream



Maybe.

https://twitter.com/tamarrod


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## Frogman

Jihad_ said:


> https://twitter.com/tamarrod/status/370825296028516352



Well done. Tamarod doesn't have an official Twitter account, the one you have provided is a fake account.

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## Mozambique Drill

Instead of removing Morsi by force, why didn't they insist on new elections.?

This happens in democratic countries. You get snap elections when there's a major scandal or something.

The MB are knuckle-dragging Neanderthals, but the Army have behaved dreadfully.

Sort yourselves out, Arabs. This is 2013.


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## agentny17

*Egypt's bruised Brotherhood fails to show street power*

(Reuters) - Mass protests called by Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood mostly failed to materialize on Friday as the movement reeled from a bloody army crackdown on followers of ousted President Mohamed Mursi.

Troops and police had taken relatively low-key security measures before the "Friday of Martyrs" processions that were to have begun from 28 mosques in the capital after weekly prayers.
Egypt's bruised Brotherhood fails to show street power | Reuters

Time to move on

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## doublemaster

agentny17 said:


> *Egypt's bruised Brotherhood fails to show street power*
> 
> (Reuters) - Mass protests called by Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood mostly failed to materialize on Friday as the movement reeled from a bloody army crackdown on followers of ousted President Mohamed Mursi.
> 
> Troops and police had taken relatively low-key security measures before the "Friday of Martyrs" processions that were to have begun from 28 mosques in the capital after weekly prayers.
> Egypt's bruised Brotherhood fails to show street power | Reuters
> 
> Time to move on



Yeah....even if 100 members attended thats really great...even after killing so many...


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## KS

doublemaster said:


> Yeah....even if 100 members attended thats really great...even after killing so many...



Why do Indian muslims support MB when even majority of Egyptians are against them ?

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## agentny17

doublemaster said:


> Yeah....even if 100 members attended thats really great...even after killing so many...


Muslim Brotherhood leaders were not killed, they ran like a chicken and some of them tried to run out of the country!! The know it is over for them. Only reason they were in Rabaa was to use the "protesters" as human shields so they don't get arrested.


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## doublemaster

KS said:


> Why do Indian muslims support MB when even majority of Egyptians are against them ?



You are neither muslim nor egyptian. How does it matter to u?

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## KS

doublemaster said:


> You are neither muslim nor egyptian. How does it matter to u?



You havent answered my question. 


Plus by the same logic you are not an Egyptian, so how does Egyptian politics matter to you especially when majority of Egyptians themselves doesnt care about what you think or in other words, your opinion doesnt count for anything ?

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## agentny17

KS said:


> Why do Indian muslims support MB when even majority of Egyptians are against them ?


That is the main problem with Islamists; they have no loyalty to their countries what so ever! I am talking about Islamists not all Muslims btw. It is very common to hear an Islamist in Egypt saying that a Muslim in any country is closer to them than a non Muslim Egyptian. The Muslim Brotherhood supreme Guide said once in 2006 that he rather have a Muslim male from Indonesia become a president of Egypt rather than a and Egyptian female or a christian Egyptian.

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## doublemaster

KS said:


> You are not an Egyptian, so how does Egyptian politics matter to you especially when majority of Egyptians themselves doesnt care about that ?



Actually i was waiting for ur reply from he beging..i was wondering why you dint comment.

See, It is simple. Like you cant tolerate suffering of Tamils in SL.


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## KS

doublemaster said:


> Actually i was waiting for ur reply from he beging..i was wondering why you dint comment.
> 
> See, It is simple. Like you cant tolerate suffering of Tamils in SL.



Genius, the obvious difference is India was/is involved in Sri Lanka from the beginning. It is our neighbor and the situation there directly affects the situation in India. Lankan President gave promises to Indian PM about the treatment of Tamils there and we as tthe pre-eminent power in South Asia need to make them accountable to the promises they gave to us. Plus if anything goes wrong there, its Tamil Nadu those Tamils migrate to as refugees. Also those Tamils are the same people as us .

On the other hand, I cant fathom how the politics in Egypt could possibly affect India. So instead of going offtopic why dont you answer my initial question ? When the Arab muslims dont even consider you south asian muslims as their equal why are you so concerned about them ?

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## doublemaster

KS said:


> Genius, the obvious difference is India was/is involved in Sri Lanka from the beginning. It is our neighbor and the situation there directly affects the situation in India. Lankan President gave promises to Indian PM about the treatment of Tamils there and we as tthe pre-eminent power in South Asia need to make them accountable to the promises they gave to us. Plus if anything goes wrong there, its Tamil Nadu those Tamils migrate to as refugees. Also those Tamils are almost the same people as us and linked to us *culturally, linguistically and by blood relations*.
> 
> On the other hand, I cant fathom how the politics in Egypt could possibly affect India. Or are you one of those who as @Agentny17 said thinks muslims from anywhere in the world are more closer to him than his non-muslim Indians ?



Earlier when one Tamil traitor who hated in India in one of the thread you mentioned only bolded point. They are neighbors not neibors still you would support them. Tamils are in other countries too...



> Congress and BJP are doing the same thing.
> 
> Tamils needs separate nation like Israel.When center ignoring our feelings means there is nothing wrong to take anti-India stance to harm India. Tamils have no enmity towards China and Pakistan personally those are north Indian and NE Indian problems if china favors tamils interests then we wholeheartedly welcoming China presence in IOR.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...-over-coals-over-sri-lanka.html#ixzz2co2FghJA



For you this tamil traitor is thambi....right? But even if i say 100 positive things it doesnt make me Indian. 

We muslims too have lot of common things btw us and muslims any part of the world. We do feel bad when anything happens to them. But when it comes to country, our country is important to us as long as it is doing right thing.

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## agentny17

*Egypt 'killed 78 militants' in recent operations in Sinai*
78 suspected militants killed, 203 arrested in Sinai Peninsula in recent operations, army says
Egyptian security forces have killed 78 suspected militants, including 32 foreigners, in recent operations in the Sinai Peninsula, military spokesperson Ahmed Ali said on Friday.
The operations injured around 116 people, Ali added via his official Facebook page.

Ali confirmed that 203 people, including 48 foreigners, had been arrested for their alleged involvement in attacks on security checkpoints in the peninsula.

He also said that 343 tunnels on the border between Egypt and Gaza at Rafah have been destroyed.

Last Tuesday, at least 25 Egyptian policemen were killed when suspected militants ambushed a personnel carrier near Rafah.

In August 2012, an attack by unknown assailants killed 16 army conscripts in Rafah. Then-president Mohamed Morsi conducted a security reshuffle that saw army intelligence chief Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi appointed defence minister.

Attacks against security forces have escalated since Morsi's ouster. Sixty people have reportedly been killed in attacks on security checkpoints in Sinai since Morsi was deposed by the military on 3 July amid mass protests against his rule.
Egypt 'killed 78 militants' in recent operations in Sinai - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online

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## VelocuR

*Why Saudi Arabia is taking a risk by backing the Egyptian coup *

David Hearst 
Tuesday, 20 August 2013 17:18 







King Abdullah fears the Muslim Brotherhood, which challenges the kingdom's claim to be the protector of Islam

*It took almost 60 years for the CIA to own up to its role in the British-backed coup that overthrew Iran's prime minister Mohammed Mossadegh on August 19, 1953. But Saudi Arabia's backing for the recent Egyptian coup, which its head of intelligence, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, had worked so tirelessly to achieve, was instantaneous. When Adli Mansour, the former head of Egypt's supreme court, was sworn in as interim president, King Abdullah sent him a message praising the Egyptian army for having saved the country from a dark tunnel.*

The Saudi monarch followed this up last Friday with a speech whose bluntness was atypical of the man. "Let the entire world know," he proclaimed "that the people and government of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia stood and still stand today with our brothers in Egypt against terrorism, extremism and sedition, and against whomever is trying to interfere in Egypt's internal affairs." This was unusual, not only because Abdullah was aiming his words at his other ally, the United States, and the Gulf state's regional rival Qatar, whom he accused of "fanning the fire of sedition and promoting terrorism, which they claim to be fighting". It was rare because the monarch, who prefers behind the scenes diplomacy, was so explicit.

The kingdom has backed its words with money, and oil. It has already put together an $12bn (£7.7bn) aid package along with the UAE and Kuwait which is four times as much as the military and economic grants from the US and the EU combined ($1.5bn and $1.3bn respectively). On his return from meeting the French president at the weekend, the foreign minister, Saudi al-Faisal, vowed to compensate Egypt for any loss of EU or US money. Barack Obama's impotence in the Middle East is being paraded by the US's closest Arab military ally.

Prince Bandar has also been to Moscow. Being on opposite sides of the civil war in Syria (the kingdom is seeking the fall of Bashar al-Assad, who Russia supports militarily) was no impediment to a productive visit. Both sides agreed to keep the oil price high, found common ground in their hatred for the Muslim Brotherhood, whom top Russian Arabists in the ministry of foreign affairs equate with Islamic extremists. Russia feels it has every reason to fear political Islam, with a population of indigenous Muslims from the Caucasus, which is rising as a proportion of the Russian Federation's total population, and expected to hit 19m or 14% of the population by 2020. "Are you mad?" an MFA official told his US counterpart "to support the guys with beards over the guys with ties?".

Why has the kingdom, famed for its caution on the diplomatic stage, put all its eggs in one basket, which, considering the volatility in Egypt, remains fragile and unpredictable. Who knows which side in Egypt will prevail, and if that is so, why back the coup leader General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi so publicly? Sisi thanked the kingdom in fulsome terms. He said that the Saudi intervention was unprecedented since the Yom Kippur 1973 war with Israel. Praise indeed.

For Dr Maha Azzam, associate fellow of the Middle East and North Africa programme at Chatham House, the kingdom's fire-breathing support for the coup comes as little surprise. Not only had they been astonished by Washington's abandonment of the kingdom's closest regional ally in Hosni Mubarak, a point they made very clear during his trial. They had seen him replaced, at the polls, by the Brotherhood, which challenged the kingdom's claim to be the protector of Islam.

*Azzam said: "What they had was a lethal equation, democracy plus Islamism, albeit under the Muslim Brotherhood. That was a lethal concoction in undermining the kingdom's own legitimacy in the long run. They know full well they do not want democracy, but to have another group representing Islam was intolerable."

King Abdullah has good reason to fear the Brotherhood, which has been getting unprecedented support in Saudi Arabia since the 3 July coup. Sympathy for Mohamed Morsi has filled Twitter feeds in the country. Support for Morsi on social media has its own emblem, a four-fingered salute, known as the sign of Rabaa

It is one thing to upset the middle class and the intelligentsia, but quite another to have the country's religious scholars denounce you. A group of 56 of them did so, by issuing a statement describing the events of 3 July as "unquestionably a military coup and an unlawful and illicit criminal act". The king has also been attacked in a sermon by a sheikh at the al-Masjid al-Nabawi mosque in Medina, Islam's second holiest site.*

*The royal family have responded to the campaign they are facing on social media by sacking a Kuwaiti TV preacher with Brotherhood links. Tareq al-Suwaidan, who has more than 1.9 million Twitter followers, was told that there is no place for those who carry deviant thoughts at the Al Resalah channel
*
But this is a dangerous strategy. As president, Morsi resisted calling his regional enemies out for the money and support they gave to Egyptian opposition politicians, parties and private television channels for good reason. Up to 2 million Egyptians are employed as guest workers in the kingdom and their remittances were important for an economy on its knees. He feared that the Saudis would kick them out if he accused them of undermining his presidency. However today, Egyptian ex-pats are not the Brotherhood's problem or responsibility. What could well follow is an unrestrained campaign by its members to destabilise the Saudi and UAE regimes.

Azzam said: "For the US and EU, there is very little grey area. Either you have authoritarian regimes, including Assad or you have the Arab spring. The authoritarian regimes are saying: 'If we use enough force, we can quell the tide of democracy.' For Washington it means that there is no regional player that can now mediate with the Egyptian military. No one that can play the role of good cop."

*The battles lines have now been clearly drawn throughout the Arab world. The military coup in Egypt, and Saudi support for it, represents an attempt to turn the clock back, to halt the wave of democratisation heralded by the toppling of Arab dictators. It is unlikely to be the final word or battle in what promises to be an epic struggle.*

This article first appeared on theguardian.com

Why Saudi Arabia is taking a risk by backing the Egyptian coup

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## Arabian Legend

agentny17 said:


> *Egypt 'killed 78 militants' in recent operations in Sinai*
> 78 suspected militants killed, 203 arrested in Sinai Peninsula in recent operations, army says
> Egyptian security forces have killed 78 suspected militants, including 32 foreigners, in recent operations in the Sinai Peninsula, military spokesperson Ahmed Ali said on Friday.
> The operations injured around 116 people, Ali added via his official Facebook page.
> 
> Ali confirmed that 203 people, including 48 foreigners, had been arrested for their alleged involvement in attacks on security checkpoints in the peninsula.
> 
> He also said that 343 tunnels on the border between Egypt and Gaza at Rafah have been destroyed.
> 
> Last Tuesday, at least 25 Egyptian policemen were killed when suspected militants ambushed a personnel carrier near Rafah.
> 
> In August 2012, an attack by unknown assailants killed 16 army conscripts in Rafah. Then-president Mohamed Morsi conducted a security reshuffle that saw army intelligence chief Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi appointed defence minister.
> 
> Attacks against security forces have escalated since Morsi's ouster. Sixty people have reportedly been killed in attacks on security checkpoints in Sinai since Morsi was deposed by the military on 3 July amid mass protests against his rule.
> Egypt 'killed 78 militants' in recent operations in Sinai - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online



Good hit with an iron fest , may they rot in hell.

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## agentny17

Saudi Arabia stance with the Egyptian people is the strongest support any country has given Egypt since the 1973 Ramadan/October/Yom Kippur war, and the Egyptian people will never forget that!! Leave it for Egyptians to evaluate and decide why Saudi Arabia is standing with them, not outsiders!!

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## agentny17

Arabian Legend said:


> Good hit with an iron fest , may they rot in hell.


The operation will take a while according to some security officials because during Morsi's presidency he let them operate freely for a year and prevented the army from launching a major operation against them. They were able to increase their forces, weapons and have major trainings with Hamas during this time. Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood were convinced by Hamas that these terrorists will be their second line defense if attempt to kick him out of office takes place.


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## VelocuR

As you may don't know. The people of Saudi Arabia is with the Egyptian Pro Morsi. Only small number of Liberals are trying to survive it. And I am not Islamist nor sympathizers, however we must listen to the majority of its people's will. 

--Sympathy for Mohamed Morsi has filled Twitter feeds in the country (Saudi Arabia). Support for Morsi on social media has its own emblem, a four-fingered salute, known as the sign of Rabaa.


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## agentny17

Sinai&#8217;s Role in Morsi&#8217;s Ouster
While Morsi made many mistakes that provoked a disillusioned and increasingly impoverished population to challenge his legitimacy, the rapidly deteriorating security situation in Sinai may have been the main impetus for his ouster.* His refusal to employ heavy-handed tactics to stop the increasing flow of arms and militants into Sinai&#8212;and his seeming disinterest in avenging the deaths of Egyptian soldiers&#8212;led the Egyptian military to join the ranks of his detractors.* With the tacit support of their wary Israeli and American military counterparts, the Egyptian armed forces took matters into their own hands to protect what they deemed was Egypt&#8217;s top national security priority.

Meanwhile, Morsi&#8217;s softer approach to dealing with the kidnappings and killings of Egyptian soldiers in the Sinai through mediation with tribal chiefs, rather than the standard military response, made him appear naïve and unfit to rule in the eyes of his military. In stark contrast to the hardline stance of Mubarak, Morsi tasked his regime with holding meetings with tribal elders to hear their complaints and their ideas on how to end the bloodshed in the Sinai and the Rafah crossing. Government representatives employed the unconventional tactic of encouraging an intellectual and jurisprudential revision of the interpretations of religious doctrine by extremists, who issued fatwas to authorize killing innocent people.* In November 2012, Morsi rejected outright General el-Sisi&#8217;s request to crack down on alleged terrorists in Sinai, reportedly stating, &#8220;I don&#8217;t want Muslims to shed the blood of fellow Muslims.&#8221; *

*The military interpreted Morsi&#8217;s softer approach as evidence of his conflicted loyalties: between his sympathies with extremist Islamist groups&#8212;notwithstanding his rejection of their use of violence&#8212;and his obligations as President to preserve security in Sinai. Suspicions arose as to whether Morsi and his Muslim Brotherhood backers had ulterior plans for Sinai, perhaps in line with an external ideology that seeks a pan-Islamic alliance across the Middle East&#8212;rather than pursuing Egypt&#8217;s national security interests as laid out under the Camp David peace treaty. Thus, Morsi&#8217;s policies in Sinai provided the military an opportunity to grant the opposition explicit support in their efforts to oust him from the presidency.*

Sinai

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## ResurgentIran

Hello Im back

It is interesting to see Turkeys overreaction to ouster of Muslim Brotherhood.
Imo both Iran and Turkey has reacted to events in Egypt wrong. They should have let events play out over longer period, and just denounce violence instead of openly supporting MB.

Iran has not done it NEARLY to the same extent as Turkey though. Iran has been a little more cautious with the words. Whatever government comes next, caution must be taken in order not to have bad relations and alienate the new government.

But Turkeys strong condemnation of the military, and rabid support of Muslim Brotherhood borders on irrationality and utter desperation. Especially since Morsi and the other loosers in the MB prooved to be incompetend and unsustainable rulers, that 20-30 millions Egyptians demonstrated against. 
Muslim Brotherhood is history.

Particularly Erdogan should learn something about and adapt course-correction. Turkey can not expect to have a slave government in Egypt as part of their neo-ottoman empire aspiration.
Especially since Egypt itself is a major regional power, that will seek its own interest.

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## Jihad_

Just 1 example of how the "terrorism" propaganda in Egypt works.


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## Arabian Legend

agentny17 said:


> The operation will take a while according to some security officials because during Morsi's presidency he let them operate freely for a year and prevented the army from launching a major operation against them. They were able to increase their forces, weapons and have major trainings with Hamas during this time. Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood were convinced by Hamas that these terrorists will be their second line defense if attempt to kick him out of office takes place.



Yes my dear Im fully aware of that. Morsi and his MB fellows were trying to Brotherized the whole region if you know what I mean. I have stated before in one of OP that during Morsi role we have noticed intolerance towards NON MB in Egypt and increasing of terrorists and terrorism activities in Sina. Maaaaan, they are bunch of savage immature both politically and socially. Egypt was in very critical situation thanks God they have been thrown out.

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## hussain0216

The M.B were and are the only hope for Egypt to make an independent state

The special interest groups have ensured Egypt will be a slave nation


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## ResurgentIran

I dont believe Erdogans tears are genuine.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan,Tears,Massacre In Egypt,English Subtitles - YouTube


Reminds me of this dude (Davutoglu crying after Palestine massacre)

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## Doritos11

Arabian Legend said:


> Good hit with an iron fest , may they rot in hell.



You support the same terrorists in Iraq and Syria, stop the hypocrisy, your just here for your own interests.
All it takes for Saudi is to put Qatar back in its place which you share a border with though even that is a hard task ?
Only 250.000 Quntaris live there, your military is bigger then their population.

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## Mahmoud_EGY



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## Frogman

hussain0216 said:


> The M.B were and are the only hope for Egypt to make an independent state
> 
> The special interest groups have ensured Egypt will be a slave nation



*"Independent"*

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## hussain0216

ResurgentIran said:


> I dont believe Erdogans tears are genuine.
> 
> Recep Tayyip Erdogan,Tears,Massacre In Egypt,English Subtitles - YouTube
> 
> 
> Reminds me of this dude (Reminds me of this dude (Davutoglu crying after Palestine massacre)



Erdogan and the AKP are just smart operators

That's why their economy is a success

The military is subservient to the state and they are developing as a nation



They are a good blue print for all muslm parties




Egypt is dumb and backwards

There economy is worthless
The state is subservient to the military
And the same idiots who made Egypt like this are back in power


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## ResurgentIran

hussain0216 said:


> Erdogan and the AKP are just smart operators
> 
> That's why their economy is a success
> 
> The military is subservient to the state and they are developing as a nation
> 
> 
> 
> They are a good blue print for all muslm parties
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt is dumb and backwards
> 
> There economy is worthless
> The state is subservient to the military
> And the same idiots who made Egypt like this are back in power



Should wait and see how Egypt does after things cool down, rather than prematurely passing early judgements. 

The time of Jihadis ruling Egypt was short-lived, and over for good.

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## hussain0216

Why you mean the secular liberal idiots dictators and military who have been ruling Egypt for most of the last 100 years have suddenly found a way to run a nation

They are the reason why Egypt is in this mess

What will they do different now that they haven't done in the last 100 years


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## ResurgentIran

hussain0216 said:


> Why you mean the secular liberal idiots dictators and military who have been ruling Egypt for most of the last 100 years have suddenly found a way to run a nation
> 
> They are the reason why Egypt is in this mess
> 
> What will they do different now that they haven't done in the last 100 years



So what do you think the Muslim Brotherhood was gonna do to make things better for Egypt?
They were so incompetent that their government did not even last a year, culminating in massive protest (largest in history, much larger than the protests against Mubarak)

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## haman10

ResurgentIran said:


> Should wait and see how Egypt does after things cool down, rather than prematurely passing early judgements.
> 
> The time of Jihadis ruling Egypt was short-lived, and over for good.



i dont know if military and sisi r any good either , what do u think about the massacare just some days ago?
one of their critics about morsi was his good behavior with mubarak
now he is free
and for sure sisi relations with west and israhell is far more better


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## ResurgentIran

haman10 said:


> i dont know if military and sisi r any good either , what do u think about the massacare just some days ago?
> one of their critics about morsi was his good behavior with mubarak
> now he is free
> and for sure sisi relations with west and israhell is far more better



I dont know if Sisi is good or not.
But I think it is left to Egyptians to decide who they want to be in government.

Its way too early to make any judgement.
But the civilian casualties are regrettable. But this is a process and struggle for Egypt and gonna take some time.

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## hussain0216

ResurgentIran said:


> So what do you think the Muslim Brotherhood was gonna do to make things better for Egypt?
> They were so incompetent that their government did not even last a year, culminating in massive protest (largest in history, much larger than the protests against Mubarak)




What large protests Egypt is a nation of 85 million people apart from tahire square and a few other places there were no protests and it has already been proven you can't physically get more then a few hundred thousand people into tahire square

The M.B didn't even get a chance to rule the deep state feloul and military made sure of that

Hell the first protest against a democratic government wss 30 days after it was elected



If the M.B had done to the liberals what the military is doing now the liberal secular types would be dog dirt now

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## ResurgentIran

hussain0216 said:


> What large protests Egypt is a nation of 85 million people apart from tahire square and a few other places there were no protests and it has already been proven you can't physically get more then a few hundred thousand people into tahire square
> 
> The M.B didn't even get a chance to rule the deep state feloul and military made sure of that
> 
> Hell the first protest against a democratic government wss 30 days after it was elected
> 
> 
> 
> If the M.B had done to the liberals what the military is doing now the liberal secular types would be dog dirt now



Tahrir square is just symbolic. Not all protest are gathered there.
Otherwise over 30 million protested. Unprecedented in history.

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## hussain0216

The liberal secular elites of Egypt have ruled Egypt for decades and all they have bought Egypt is loss defeatsand humiliation

What will change now

At least the M.B had a AKP blue print but they were never allowed to implement it


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## hussain0216

ResurgentIran said:


> Tahrir square is just symbolic. Not all protest are gathered there.
> Otherwise over 30 million protested. Unprecedented in history.



A democratic election is how you decide which party won

The M.B won 5 elections in a row and had a democratic mandate the elections were free and fair with international observer's





Repeating 5 million, 20 million, 30 million is just worthless propaganda numbers, I mean who the hell counted these alleged people

If the military and liberals were so confident they would have forced a election

It was only because they were so sure of losing that they chose the coup route


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## haman10

ResurgentIran said:


> I dont know if Sisi is good or not.
> But I think it is left to Egyptians to decide who they want to be in government.
> 
> Its way too early to make any judgement.
> But the civilian casualties are regrettable. But this is a process and struggle for Egypt and gonna take some time.


first (dadashe golam) 
i think that the main problem is that its not clear whether egyptions can in future decide for themselves democratically or not?
will sisi completely hand over the government ?? and whats the guarantee that he dosent start yet another coup??

second: civilian casualties were higher than just regrettable

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## ResurgentIran

hussain0216 said:


> Repeating 5 million, 20 million, 30 million is just worthless propaganda numbers, I mean who the hell counted these alleged people



Its an approximative figure. Obviously no one counted. lol



haman10 said:


> first (dadashe golam)
> i think that the main problem is that its not clear whether egyptions can in future decide for themselves democratically or not?
> will sisi completely hand over the government ?? and whats the guarantee that he dosent start yet another coup??
> 
> second: civilian casualties were higher than just regrettable



I dont know. But these are good questions. Which is why I think its too early to say anything, and see how it goes and situations develops.

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## islamrules

@Jihad_ 
Mahmoud Badr says (to proove that he is a muslim n not a munafik like the evil terrorist MBs claim) :
"I cry everytime I listen to sourat "tala'a al badru alaina " " !!!! 







of course for those who don't get it, tala'a al badru alaina is a nasheed not a soura

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## ELTurco



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## kalu_miah

cross posted:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...il-roll-back-arab-spring-egypt-elsewhere.html
Money to Meddle - By Marc Lynch | Foreign Policy






*Money to Meddle*
Can the wealthy powerbrokers of the Persian Gulf create the Egypt they want?

BY MARC LYNCH | JULY 11, 2013

Many Egyptians furiously contest whether the overthrow of former President Mohamed Morsy should be considered a revolution or a coup. But the fiercely anti-revolutionary monarchs of the Gulf have no such doubts. Within days of Morsy's fall, three conservative Gulf Cooperation Council states pledged $12 billion in support to the new regime. It's pretty clear what the counter-revolutionary Gulf monarchs expect for their generosity, and it's not democracy. The conservative Gulf states would like to buy a new Mubarakism and a final end to all of this Arab uprising unpleasantness. But they are unlikely to succeed.

The $12 billion in support came from three members of the GCC's conservative axis: Saudi Arabia, the core of the anti-revolutionary monarchical bloc, pledged $5 billion; the fiercely anti-Islamist and anti-democracy United Arab Emirates pledged $3 billion; and Kuwait, traditionally more liberal but now locked in a debilitating political crisis over the powers of its Parliament, promised $4 billion. Those cash infusions come on top of years of political and media support for the anti-Brotherhood forces in Egypt.

*This massive financial support follows on, and replaces, billions of dollars given by Qatar to the previous Muslim Brotherhood government. It is likely to prove equally ineffectual in delivering the desired payoffs, though. As Doha discovered to its dismay, money will buy only temporary love and symbolic returns. Whatever Gulf paymasters might hope, the new Egyptian government will be forced to respond to its own intensely turbulent, polarized, and dysfunctional domestic political arena. No outside player -- not Washington, Riyadh, Doha, or Tehran -- can really hope to effectively shape the new Egyptian politics for long.*

Many, if not most, of those who demanded Morsy's departure did so to save Egypt from the Muslim Brotherhood and restore a democratic transition, not to bring back the old regime. Nothing in Egypt's recent history suggests that the new government will be able to easily pacify its intensely mobilized public or that any external power will be able to control its politics. General Abdul Fatah al-Sisi's "neo-SCAF" may appear to be much better at the Egyptian political game than his bungling predecessors, but its muddled transitional roadmap looks as poorly conceived as the one the military failed so badly at implementing in 2011. *Indeed, as anti-Muslim Brotherhood rage fades as a unifying force, Riyadh and Abu Dhabi may find themselves taking over Qatar's role as the external force blamed for ongoing economic and political failure.*

The UAE and Saudi Arabia had multiple reasons for supporting the anti-Morsy mobilization. Their deep antipathy towards and fear of the Muslim Brotherhood was a primary motivation. The UAE has been leading the charge against the Brotherhood at home and across the region, for years. The recently concluded trial of 94 alleged Brotherhood activists is only the tip of the iceberg. Dubai's controversial police chief Dhahi Khalfan Tamim has been sounding the alarm bells for years, while Emirati media have been flooded with anti-Brotherhood reporting and commentary.

*Saudi hostility to the Brotherhood is driven not by any devotion to secularism, of course, but by the fierce competition between the Brotherhood and its own Salafi Islamist networks. Riyadh seeks leadership over Islamist political networks for both domestic and regional reasons. The Saudi regime worked for years to co-opt the Brotherhood-inclined "Sahwa" Islamist networks that drove political dissent in the early 1990s -- and it still fears their remobilization (for example, the highly publicized open letter by Sahwa leader Salman al-Odeh warning the government against ignoring public discontent). Saudi support for the jihad in Syria is likely driven in part by the same concerns as its anti-Brotherhood campaign. Just as the Afghan jihad of the 1980s redirected Islamist energies away from home following the traumatic seizure of the Great Mosque of Mecca, the Syrian jihad focuses Islamist energies abroad, working with rather than against Riyadh's leadership. In Egypt, as in Syria, the Saudis don't oppose Islamism, just competing Islamists.*

The rivalry with Qatar also clearly drove the calculations of Saudi Arabia and the UAE. The cooperation between these GCC states in the early days of the Arab uprising was always clearly the exception. Their rivalry and mutual disdain runs deep, and Doha's rivals have moved rapidly and aggressively to take advantage of the departure of the Emir Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani and Foreign Minister Hamad bin Jassim. What happened in Doha is clearly not staying in Doha. Morsy's fall represents a serious setback for Qatar's regional policy, but not the only one. Qatar's men in the Syrian opposition have been sidelined, for now. Its leading Islamist figure, Yusuf al-Qaradawi, has capitulated to the Saudi anti-Shiite line, and now rumors are flying that he has been expelled from Doha. Meanwhile, the Saudis are moving to re-establish their traditional domination of the Arab media, with Al-Jazeera floundering and the influential (allegedly Qatari-backed) Arab populist editor Abdel Bari Atwan suddenly departing the pan-Arab daily al-Quds al-Arabi.

*Most broadly, Riyadh and Abu Dhabi saw the chance to finally put the nail in the coffin of the detested Arab uprisings by re-establishing the old order in the most important of the transitional states. They were horrified by Mubarak's fall, by the demonstration effect across the region, and by America's seeming embrace of the uprisings. From the start, they worked to divert, prevent, or control the Arab uprisings: helping to crush the uprising in Bahrain, sending massive financial assistance to less wealthy fellow monarchs in Oman, Jordan, and Morocco, and seeking to control the transition process in Yemen. Their media, in contrast to Al-Jazeera's celebratory coverage, tended to emphasize the negative consequences of the Arab uprisings, the perfidy of Islamists, the carnage of Syria and Libya, and Egypt's political chaos.*

A successful Egyptian democratic transition, with or without the Muslim Brotherhood, represented the greatest threat to this vision of conservative restoration. Such an Egypt would offer a powerful example of the possibility of democratic change through peaceful uprising, and would likely pursue an independent foreign policy which would challenge the Saudi-backed regional order. Gulf leaders no doubt calculated that Egypt would return to its rightful place in the official Arab order. But their vision of Egypt's political reset is not to 1954, no matter how much they want to see the Brotherhood crushed. They would like to prevent, not encourage, the emergence of a new form of Gamal Abdel Nasser's independent foreign policy that could challenge their own. A reset to the late 2000s, with Egypt playing a subservient supporting role to Saudi diplomacy, will suffice.

What might this look like? The blueprint for the "new Arab Awakening" presented this week in Foreign Policy by UAE Foreign Minister Anwar Gargash suggests a useful outline. This new Awakening for which he urges support contains no mention of democracy, popular mobilization, or media freedoms. The focus instead is entirely on countering Islamic "extremists," economic development, and competent technocratic government (and a token wave toward the Israeli-Palestinian conflict). There is nothing in this which could not describe the agenda of Gamal Mubarak's National Democratic Party circa 2010. Or, to be glib, *the new Arab awakening means "go back to sleep or the Muslim Brotherhood will get you."*

For now, anti-Muslim Brotherhood rage has allowed the new regime to avoid the contradictions between revolution and counter-revolution. Amazingly, the SCAF has somehow managed to persuade Egypt that Washington's main ally in Egypt has been the Muslim Brotherhood and not, as has always been true, the military. State media along with many of the new "independent" media have eagerly leaped to the task, flooding the zone with denunciations of Brotherhood "terror" and rewriting recent history to glorify the role of the armed forces and police. A Bahrain-style campaign on social media blasts all would-be bridge builders and moderates as Brotherhood sympathizers and traitors. The streets are festooned with posters attacking Al-Jazeera and Tamarod banners declare "Obama supports terrorism." The Brotherhood's defiant response, and the support it has received from international Islamist networks and from Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, feed this polarization.

*None of this is likely to work over even the short term, though. Mubarakism failed for a reason, and the new version is unlikely to fare better. Anti-Islamism will have a short-half life as a legitimating formula for the new leadership. While the Gulf states and the old elites may have taken advantage of the uprising against Morsy, they neither created nor controlled popular anger. A significant portion of the June 30 protest wave wants continuing revolution and the building of democracy, not Gulf tutelage or the restoration of the pre-2011 status quo. The mobilized Egyptian public will have little patience when the new leaders again fail to restore order, fix the economy, or find political consensus. The new infusion of cash from the Gulf will stave off disaster for a while, but will no more likely fix the massive underlying problems than did the Qatari support, while subsidy reforms or other needed measures will galvanize public outrage.*

Washington is now more trapped than ever between its professed hopes for democratic change in the region and its alliance with the anti-democratic regimes of the Gulf. Washington seems likely to accept the new realities and to try to save face by urging the Gulf to join it in pressuring the SCAF to rapidly restore democratic rule ... as if that were a shared goal. The United States probably should suspend its aid to Egypt, as is legally required, but the Gulf assistance mitigates any influence which such a threat might offer. The administration's intensive consultations in recent days with the Egyptian military and with Gulf leaders suggests that Washington will find it easier to work with the new-old constellation of power.

But it would be a mistake to easily go along. July 3 might have been more coup than revolution, but the massive mobilization was very real. *The Arab uprisings are not over, no matter how much the Gulf monarchies might wish that they were. A neo-Mubarakist restoration will no more bring stability to Egypt than did the pre-revolutionary Mubarak regime. There is no solution to Egypt's problems without overcoming the country's polarization and establishing meaningful democracy, neither of which are high on the agenda of Egypt's new Gulf backers.*

Marc Lynch is professor of political science and international affairs at George Washington University and an editor of Foreign Policy's Middle East Channel.


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## agentny17

*Is This the End of an Era 
For the Muslim Brotherhood?*

The Brotherhoods PR strategy seemed to rely on maximizing the death toll as to enforce its position as the victim and win the publics sympathy thus warranting international intervention. US and EU criticism of the Egyptian government may have been interpreted by the Brotherhood as stand your ground and give us more corpses and we'll send the troops, Libya-style. That was the wrong bet. By early afternoon on Aug. 14, it seemed that the government was losing. Egypt was losing. The death toll was rising and a few thousand more protesters were pushing in trying to merge with the sit-in. ElBaradei resigned. Egypt was to be held by the throat. The government allegedly used excessive force, but still could not break the sit-in. Even after the sit-in was cleared, the high number of fatalities with news of fresh demonstrations announced for the following Friday suggested that the interim government had lost it. The Turkish prime minister was in a frenzy making calls demanding a Security Council emergency session to see what should be done to control the situation in Egypt. The international Brotherhood organization and its allies in Turkey and Qatar started to call for international intervention in Egypt. EU foreign ministers were to meet where news of potential suspension of EU aid to Egypt was leaked. The Brotherhood plan was to maximize the chaos and death toll as to warrant international intervention in Egypt. These actions, when put together, again pointed to one thing: the Brotherhood strategic intent was not to be a part of the political dialog, the Brothers seemed set on destroying the State of Egypt.
And while news came of a wave of attacks on Egypts churches and Christian community, the Muslim Brotherhoods spokespersons in Western media started to play the Good Terrorist, Bad Terrorist argument, suggesting that it was better to accept the Brotherhood with their low level of violence so as not to risk radicalizing more Islamists and ending up with really violent factions. But it was difficult to sustain a victim PR strategy for long while the Brotherhood and their supporters were torching churches and massacring police officers. On Aug. 17, the world started to see a different reality from the al-Fath mosque standoff. The famous picture of an army soldier trying to push the angry crowd aside as to provide Muslim Brothers with safe passage out of the Ramses-square-located mosque said it all. It confirmed what many Egyptians have been trying to tell the world for weeks, but they were ignored by Western analysts and media. Throughout previous weeks, Western media made the limited protests of the Brotherhood look much bigger and influential. It portrayed a poetic picture of peaceful democrats who protested to ask what happened to my vote? The media wanted to believe that these protesters represented the sentiments of the majority of Egyptian people rising against the evil generals of the army who had plotted a coup against an elected president. But now the truth was emerging. The reality on the ground showed that Muslim Brothers, throughout the past few months, were increasingly unable to face Egyptians, let alone rule them.


Read more: Is This the End of an Era For the Muslim Brotherhood? - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East


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## BlueWarrior



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## -SINAN-

ResurgentIran said:


> I dont believe Erdogans tears are genuine.



Man, and i believe those tears are real.... He is emotional, i would prefer a more pragmatist leader instead of him.


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## Patriots

Browse by Covers - The Week

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## doublemaster

By the way what are salafi leaders thinking now? I dont see any news from their party these days.


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## doublemaster

Egypt ex-VP ElBaradei's party 'shocked' over lawsuit - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online


Constitution Party Media Secretary Khaled Dawoud expresses his "shock" at news that the party's founder and former Egyptian vice president Mohamed ElBaradei may face trial for having resigned, calling the legal petition part of a campaign against ElBaradei.


Helwan University criminal law professor Ahmed El-Ateeq filed a case against ElBaradei this week charging he "breached national trust."

"No official was ever charged in any country in the world with a crime for simply resigning from his post," Dawoud maintains.

Dawoud argues, however, that El-Ateeq used financial law in his case against ElBaradei, which he says doesn't apply, according to the Constitution Party's press release.

*He adds that reviewing such a case so quickly - a Cairo court set the trial date for 19 September, which also coincides with the judges' annual holiday - is proof of a "rabid campaign aimed at tarnishing [ElBaradei's] reputation and stances." He also points out that this isn't the first time the Constitution Party has stood against a campaign against them.*

ElBaradei resigned citing that he could not bear the responsibility for decisions that led to violence witnessed at the dispersal of sit-ins on 14 August that were pressing to reinstate president Mohamed Morsi. Protests against the violent dispersal erupted in the days following, with hundreds dying and thousands injured in clashes.

Before the sit-ins were evicted, ElBaradei was widely attacked in many Egyptian media outlets for allegedly standing in the way of calls to disperse the sit-in.

After he resigned attacks intensified, saying he disappointed his party and the country.

The Constitution Party concluded with a warning from Dawoud that such lawsuits would only increase internal strife in Egypt by standing against any voice that "attempts to exit the polarised atmosphere Egypt has entered."



So, Coup aligned party itself doesnt trust their court.....!!


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## Jihad_

Constitutional tweaks may empower Mubarak-era politicians in Egypt



> Islamists and liberals have voiced alarm about the proposals made by a constitutional committee set up by the generals who removed the Muslim Brotherhood's Mursi on July 3 amid widespread protests against Egypt's first freely elected leader.
> 
> The committee is likely to propose retaining an article that exempts Egypt's powerful military from financial or political auditing, insiders on the body said.
> 
> One of the most significant suggested changes would return Egypt to voting for individual candidates, rather than reserving some seats for party lists, in parliamentary elections.
> 
> "This change seems to target Islamists and it will be wrong and undemocratic," Eid said. "We had complaints ... about the Brotherhood and Islamists, but that does not mean ruling them out of politics as this will only lead to more violence."
> 
> Khaled Dawoud, a member of the liberal Dostour party, described the proposal as a return to the Mubarak era, when votes were routinely rigged to enable the president's National Democratic Party (NDP) to maintain its dominance of parliament.
> 
> 
> Dawoud said he was worried by plans to retain articles under which journalists risk jail for "insulting the president" and newspapers can be closed for press crimes.

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## VelocuR

*Washington frets over Saudi ties
*
By Jim Lobe 

August 23, 2013

WASHINGTON - As the administration of President Barack Obama continues wrestling with how to react to the military coup in Egypt and its bloody aftermath, officials and independent analysts are increasingly worried about the crisis's effect on US ties with Saudi Arabia. 

*The oil-rich kingdom's strong support for the coup is seen here as having encouraged Cairo's defense minister General Abdul Fattah al-Sisi to crack down on the Muslim Brotherhood and resist Western pressure to take a conciliatory approach that would be less likely to radicalize the Brotherhood's followers and push them into taking up arms. 
*

*Along with the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait, Saudi Arabia did not just pledge immediately after the July 3 coup that ousted president Mohamed Morsi to provide a combined US$12 billion in financial assistance, but it has also promised to make up for any Western aid - including the $1.5 billion with which Washington supplies Cairo annually in mostly military assistance - that may be withheld as a result of the coup and the ongoing crackdown in which about 1,000 protesters are believed to have been killed to date. *

Perhaps even more worrisome to some experts in Washington has been the exceptionally tough language directed against Washington's own condemnation of the coup by top Saudi officials, including King Abdullah, who declared last week that "[t]he kingdom stands ... against all those who try to interfere with its domestic affairs" and charged that criticism of the army crackdown amounted to helping the "terrorists". 

Bruce Riedel, a former top CIA Middle East analyst who has advised the Obama administration, called the comments "unprecedented" even if the king did not identify the United States by name. 

Chas Freeman, a highly decorated retired foreign service officer who served as US ambassador to Riyadh during the Gulf War, agreed with that assessment. 

"I cannot recall any statement as bluntly critical as that," he told IPS, adding that it marked the culmination of two decades of growing Saudi exasperation with US policy - from Washington's failure to restrain Israeli military adventures and the occupation of Palestinian territory to its empowering the Shia majority in Iraq after its 2003 invasion and its abandonment of former Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak and its backing of democratic movements during the "Arab awakening". 

*"For most of the past seven decades, the Saudis have looked to Americans as their patrons to handle the strategic challenges of their region," Freeman said. "But now the al-Saud partnership with the United States has not only lost most of its charm and utility; it has from Riyadh's perspective become in almost all respects counterproductive." 
*
*The result, according to Freeman, has been a "lurch into active unilateral defense of its regional interests", a move that could portend major geo-strategic shifts in the region. "Saudi Arabia does not consider the US a reliable protector, thinks it's on its own, and is acting accordingly." 
*
*A number of analysts, including Freeman, have pointed to a July 31 meeting in Moscow between Russian President Vladimir Putin and the head of the Riyadh's national security council and intelligence service, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, as one potentially significant "straw in the wind" regarding the Saudi's changing calculations. 
*
According to a Reuters report, Bandar, who served as Riyadh's ambassador to Washington for more than two decades, offered to buy up to $15 billion in Russian arms and to coordinate energy policy - specifically to prevent Qatar from exporting its natural gas to Europe at Moscow's expense - in exchange for Russia dropping or substantially reducing Moscow's support for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. 

While Putin, under whom Moscow's relations with Washington appear to have a hit a post-Cold War low recently, was non-committal, Bandar left Moscow encouraged by the possibilities for greater strategic co-operation, according to press reports that drew worried comments from some here. 

"[T]he United States is apparently standing on the sidelines - despite being Riyadh's close diplomatic partner for decades, principally in the hitherto successful policy of blocking Russia's influence in the Middle East," wrote Simon Henderson, an analyst at the pro-Israel Washington Institute for Near East Policy. 

*"It would be optimistic to believe that the Moscow meeting will significantly reduce Russian support for the Assad regime," he noted. "But meanwhile Putin will have pried open a gap between Riyadh and Washington." 
*
As suggested by Abdullah's remarks, that gap has only widened in the wake of the Egyptian military's bloody crackdown on the Brotherhood this month and steps by Washington to date, including the delay in the scheduled shipment of F-16 fighter jets and the cancellation of joint US-Egyptian military exercises next month, to show disapproval. 

US officials have told reporters that Washington is also likely to suspend a shipment of Apache attack helicopters to Cairo unless the regime quickly reverses course. 

Meanwhile Moscow, even as it joined the West in appealing for restraint and non-violent solutions to the Egyptian crisis, has also refrained from criticizing the military, while the chairman of Foreign Affairs Committee of the Duma's upper house blamed the United States and the European Union for supporting the Muslim Brotherhood. 

"It is clear that Russia and Saudi Arabia prefer stability in Egypt, and both are betting on the Egyptian military prevailing in the current standoff, and are already acting on that assumption," according to an op-ed that laid out the two countries' common interests throughout the Middle East and was published Sunday by Alarabiya.net, the news channel majority-owned by the Saudi Middle East Broadcasting Center. 

*Some observers argue that Russia and Saudi Arabia have a shared interest in containing Iran; reducing Turkish influence; co-operating on energy issues; and bolstering autocratic regimes, including Egypt's, at the expense of popular Islamist parties, notably the Brotherhood and its affiliates, across the region. 

"There's a certain logic to all that, but it's too early to say whether such an understanding can be reached," said Freeman, who noted that Bandar "wrote the book on outreach to former ideological and geo-strategic enemies", including China, and that his visit to Moscow "looks like classic Saudi breakout diplomacy". *

*But reaching a deal on Syria would be particularly challenging. While Riyadh assigns higher priority to reducing Iran's regional influence than to removing Assad, some analysts believe there are ways an agreement that would retain him as president could be struck, as Moscow insists, while reducing his power over the opposition-controlled part of the country and weakening his ties to Tehran and Hezbollah. 
*
But Mark N Katz, an expert on Russian Middle East policy at George Mason University, is skeptical about the prospects for a Russian-Saudi entente, noting that Bandar has pursued such a relationship in the past without success. 

"I'm not saying it can't work, but this has been his hobby horse," he told IPS. "Whatever happens in Saudi-American relations, however, the Saudis don't trust the Russians and don't want them meddling in the region. Everything about the Russians ticks them off." 

*He added that Abdullah's harsh criticism was intended more as a "wake-up call" and the fact that "the Saudis are on the same side [in supporting the Egyptian military] as the Israelis has emboldened them". 
*



Saudi Arabia support Egyptian Army while Muslim Brotherhood is backed by US, interesting game.


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## agentny17



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## VelocuR

*With Big Promise of Aid, Saudi Arabia Puts Security before Diplomacy*

Zainab Abdul Aziz and Carrie Dann, NBC News | Saturday, August 24, 2013






*Saudi Arabia&#8217;s pledge to replace U.S. aid to Egypt that could be cut in the wake of the military&#8217;s bloody crackdown makes clear the American ally&#8217;s priority in the Middle East: to keep deposed President Mohammed Morsi&#8217;s Muslim Brotherhood at bay and its own kingdom secure &#8211; even at the risk of stepping on American toes.*

&#8220;I confirm to everyone, the Saudi Kingdom leaders, government and nation has stood and will forever stand with Egypt and the Arab community will not allow ever to have their fate manipulated or their security and stability tampered with,&#8221; an official Saudi news agency quoted Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal as saying.

*&#8220;As for those who announced that they will stop their support to Egypt or threatened to stop it, for the Arab and Muslim world is rich with its people and capabilities and will not hesitate to offer a helping hand to Egypt.&#8221;*

*Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Kuwait view the Muslim Brotherhood &#8211; the Arab world&#8217;s most influential Islamist movement &#8211; as a significant security threat to the region&#8217;s authoritarian governments.*
Saudi Arabia and other Gulf kingdoms have pledged about $12 billion in aid to Egypt since the army toppledthe democratically elected Morsi on July 3.

&#8220;[Saudi Arabia] has stood and stands today with our brothers in Egypt against terrorism, deception and sedition,&#8221; King Abdullah said in a speech on Friday addressing the unrest in Egypt, during which he also praised the country&#8217;s military leadership.

Experts say it&#8217;s not surprising to see Saudi Arabia put security concerns in front of diplomacy.

*Saudi Arabia &#8220;will step in very, very fast when they feel their interests are in danger,&#8221; *said Michael Stephens, a Qatar-based researcher at RUSI, an international security think tank.* &#8220;The kingdom fears that the Muslim Brotherhood would work to subvert [the Gulf] monarchies region-wide.&#8221;*

Saudi Arabia&#8217;s promise to Egypt&#8217;s military leadership was in stark contrast to an announcement by American officials that they were reviewing $1.5 billion in annual aid. Some congressional leaders have pressed the Obama administration to cut aid entirely after violence sparked by raids on pro-Morsi camps killed almost 1,000 people.

In the past, American aid to Egypt has included armored personnel carriers, helicopters, anti-aircraft missiles, surveillance systems, fighter jets and tanks, as well as training. The U.S. has poured more than $70 billion in military and economic aid into Egypt since 1948.

About $1.3 billion of the annual U.S. aid is military, which comes back to the United States in spending on things like tanks and planes.

*Still, while Saudi Arabia is openly pouring money into a conflict that the U.S. has refrained from calling a coup &#8211; doing so would require cutting all military or financial assistance to the country &#8211; at least one expert said it would be wrong to interpret Saudi Arabia and the United States&#8217; different reactions to Egypt as a deep split in the relationship.*

*&#8220;The United States may have a broad concern with democracy and human rights. States within the region are more concerned with their security,&#8221; said Anthony Cordesman, former national security assistant to Senator John McCain and current Arleigh A. Burke Chair in Strategy at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

&#8220;The Saudi security-oriented approach does not mean you can&#8217;t have a partnership.&#8221;*

Cordesman, who has warned against threatening to cut aid to the Egyptians, said the U.S. needs the Saudis &#8220;just as much as they need us.&#8221;

He added: &#8220;We are not in charge.&#8221;

There is still some question as to if and what aid to Egypt may actually be cut.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said Tuesday that reports that aid to Egypt had been cut off were &#8220;not accurate&#8221; and that a review of the assistance package by the president&#8217;s national security team remained under way.

&#8220;In early July, the president of the United States directed his national security team to conduct a review of the assistance and aid that we provide to Egypt,&#8221; Earnest said. &#8220;That review that the president ordered in early July has not concluded.&#8221;

Earnest repeatedly declined to say whether some aid has been suspended as that review continued, arguing that aid is distributed in &#8220;tranches&#8221; rather than as a constant &#8220;flow&#8221; of financial assistance.

&#8220;We are considering individual tranches of assistance,&#8221; he added.

NBC News&#8217; Zainab Abdul Aziz and Carrie Dann contributed to this report.

The 4th Media » With Big Promise of Aid, Saudi Arabia Puts Security before Diplomacy


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## Solomon2

No More Kosher Food from Egypt
Violence in Egypt finally puts an end to kosher food exports.

By Maayana Miskin
First Publish: 8/23/2013, 9:37 AM

The latest violence in Egypt has finally put an end to kosher food exports from the country. Several Egyptian factories that marketed reliably kosher food to Israel will no longer be able to do so.

Over the past two and a half years, kosher certification companies in Israel have continued to send their workers (_mashgihim_) to Egypt despite political unrest as first Hosni Mubarak and then Mohamed Morsi was ousted from power.

The workers were quietly sent to certify various Egyptian foods as kosher, on the condition of adherence to strict security guidelines.

However, following violent clashes in Cairo this week in which at least 80 people were killed, kosher certification groups have unanimously decided that they cannot risk their staff by sending them to the country at this time.

At a time when we cannot guarantee our workers safety one hundred percent, the policy is not to put them in danger, said a statement from Rabbi David Moskowitz, the Admor of the Shatz Hassidic movement in Ashdod and head of the SKS-Lemehadrin kosher label.

As soon as the violence in Egypt subsides, the question of sending workers to supervise kosher food production will be reconsidered, he added.


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## Solomon2

Reeling from crackdown, Egypt's Brotherhood fails to show street power 

By REUTERS 08/24/2013 05:20 

*There were no reports of violence in Cairo, but the Brotherhood's website said one person had been killed in the Nile Delta. 




Supporters of deposed Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi march in Cairo, August 23, 2013. *Photo: REUTERS 

CAIRO - Mass protests called by Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood mostly failed to materialize on Friday as the movement reels from a bloody army crackdown on followers of ousted President Mohamed Morsi.

Troops and police had taken relatively low-key security measures before the "Friday of Martyrs" processions that were to have begun from 28 mosques in the capital after weekly prayers.

But midday prayers were cancelled at some mosques and few major protests unfolded in Cairo, although witnesses said at least 1,000 people staged a march in the Mohandiseen district.

There were no reports of violence in that procession, but the Brotherhood's website said one person had been killed in the Nile Delta town of Tanta in clashes with security forces. The Interior Ministry confirmed the death.

Brotherhood supporters also turned out in Alexandria, several Delta towns, the Suez Canal city of Ismailia, the north Sinai town of Rafah, and Assiut in the south, with minor skirmishes reported in some places.

The Health Ministry said 54 people had been wounded on Friday in Cairo and two Delta provinces, without giving any details of the violence or who was injured.

"We are not afraid; it's victory or death," said Mohamed Abdel Azim, a retired oil engineer who was among about 100 people marching slowly from a mosque near Cairo University.

"They intend to strike at Muslims," the grey-bearded Azim said. "We'd rather die in dignity than live in oppression. We'll keep coming out until there's no one left."

Despite his defiant words, the mood of the protesters seemed subdued, perhaps a sign that the crackdown and the round-up of Brotherhood leaders has chilled the rank-and-file.

Some marchers carried posters of Morsi, who was toppled by army chief General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi on July 3 after huge demonstrations against his rule. "No to the coup," they chanted.

A militant Islamist group active in the lawless Sinai Peninsula threatened new attacks on the army and police. In a statement published on a jihadist website, the Salafi Muslim group condemned security forces for what it called the "heinous crime" of killing Brotherhood supporters.

It was the first statement from any of the militant groups in the Sinai desert bordering Israel since last Wednesday's violent move by security forces on the Brotherhood sit-ins in Cairo.

The number of attacks on security forces in Sinai has jumped since the army removed Morsi. Suspected Islamist militants killed at least 24 policemen on Monday.

*"GOD WILL BRING DOWN SISI"*

At another small protest in Cairo, a veiled nursery teacher with four children, who gave her name as Nasra, said: "God will make us victorious, even if many of us are hurt and even if it takes a long time. God willing, God will bring down Sisi."

Egypt has endured the bloodiest civil unrest in its modern history since Aug. 14 when police destroyed protest camps set up by Morsi's supporters in Cairo to demand his reinstatement.

The violence has alarmed Egypt's Western allies, although President Barack Obama acknowledged that even a decision to cut off US aid to Cairo might not influence its armed forces.

But he said Washington was re-evaluating its ties with Egypt. "There's no doubt that we can't return to business as usual, given what's happened," he told CNN in an interview.

Some US lawmakers have called for a halt to the $1.5 billion a year given mostly in military assistance to Egypt to bolster its 1979 peace treaty with Israel. Military cooperation includes privileged US access to the Suez Canal.

The Brotherhood, hounded by the new army-backed rulers, had called for demonstrations across Egypt against the crackdown, testing the resilience of its battered support base.

Security forces kept a watchful eye, but did not flood the streets, even near Cairo's central Fateh mosque, where gun battles killed scores of people last Friday and Saturday.

The mosque's metal gates and big front door were locked and chained. Prayers were cancelled. Two armored vehicles were parked down the street, where people shopped at a busy market.

Only one riot police truck stood by near Rabaa al-Adawiya square in northeastern Cairo, home to the Brotherhood's biggest protest vigil until police and troops stormed in, killing hundreds of people, bulldozing barricades and burning tents.

*SYMBOLIC VICTORY*

The mosque there was closed for repairs. Workmen in blue overalls stood on scaffolding as they covered its charred walls with white paint. Children scavenged through piles of garbage.

Troops used barbed wire to block a main road to Nahda Square, the site of the smaller of the two Brotherhood sit-ins.

The authorities declared a month-long state of emergency last week and they enforce a nightly curfew.

An official of the interim government said in a television interview on Friday that the state of emergency and curfew would be reconsidered if the security situation calmed.

Security forces have arrested many leading figures from the Brotherhood, all but decapitating an organization that won five successive votes in Egypt after the overthrow of autocrat Hosni Mubarak in 2011.

In a symbolic victory for the army-dominated old order, Mubarak, an ex-military man who ruled Egypt for 30 years, was moved out of jail on Thursday. His successor Mursi, Egypt's first freely-elected president, remains detained incommunicado.

The Brotherhood's "General Guide" Mohamed Badie, who was arrested on Tuesday, is due to go on trial on Sunday along with two other senior figures, Khairat al-Shater and Saad al-Katatni, on charges that include incitement to violence.

More than 1,000 people, including over 100 soldiers and police, have been killed since Morsi's overthrow. Brotherhood supporters say the toll is much higher.

Graffiti on a mosque wall in a rundown Cairo neighborhood illustrated the deep divisions that have emerged since Sisi's takeover. The spray-painted message "Yes to Sisi" had been crossed out and painted over with the word "traitor."

Slogans elsewhere read "Morsi is a spy" and "Morsi out". Someone had also written "Freedom, Justice, Brotherhood".

The Brotherhood, founded in 1928, emerged as Egypt's best-organised political force after Mubarak fell. Its popularity waned during Morsi's year in office when critics accused it of accumulating excessive power, pushing a partisan Islamist agenda and mismanaging the economy.

The Brotherhood, which the new government has threatened to dissolve entirely, says Morsi's administration was deliberately undermined by unreformed Mubarak-era institutions.

Mubarak, 85, still faces retrial on charges of complicity in the killings of protesters, but he left jail on Thursday for the first time since April 2011 and was flown by helicopter to a plush military hospital in the southern Cairo suburb of Maadi.

The authorities have used the state of emergency to keep him under house arrest, apparently to minimize the risk of popular anger if he had been given unfettered freedom.

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## Ceylal

doublemaster said:


> By the way what are salafi leaders thinking now? I dont see any news from their party these days.



A squabble among them...Question of paycheck


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## Ceylal

Better days of Egypt are coming.
http://www.elkhabar.com/ar/img/article_large_img/Ph_21_fananat_516301346.jpg

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## Yzd Khalifa

Sinan said:


> Man, and i believe those tears are real.... He is emotional, i would prefer a more pragmatist leader instead of him.



Erdogan reserves the right to make any comments, but he has no right to cause or inflict damages between Turkey and her traditional allies.



Ceylal said:


> A squabble among them...Question of paycheck



Why on earth would a Mr. Money-bag like Abdul Rahman Al-Sudais want to receive a " paycheck " especially when his family is already ultra rich

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## islamrules




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## KS

What an irrelevant rant ! Let me rebut it line by line.



doublemaster said:


> Earlier when one Tamil traitor who hated in India in one of the thread you mentioned only bolded point. They are neighbors not neibors still you would support them. Tamils are in other countries too...



hey take your time and type in proper english with proper grammer. I am not able to understand the head or tails of what you are trying to say.




doublemaster said:


> For you this tamil traitor is thambi....right?



I never supported secession of TN from India. What are you blabbing about ?




doublemaster said:


> But even if i say 100 positive things it doesnt make me Indian.



When did I say you are not Indian ? Infact my post is why you as a muslim *Indian* is worried about a completely different set of people in faraway Egypt who have no bearing on Indian political or security situation ? Atleast try to understand why the other is saying before reflexively blurting out words.




doublemaster said:


> We muslims too have lot of common things btw us and muslims any part of the world. We do feel bad when anything happens to them.



*So according to you, those who are opposed to Muslim brotherhood (the majority of Egyptians) are not muslims* ? What a load of malarkey. You still havent answered my question - what stake do you as a south asian muslim - who has nothing in common with an egyptian except a similar (not same) religion - has in their internal political process ? Do the common egyptian even give a **** to your opinion ? Do those arabs even treat you people their equal ? Why is this obsession with arabs when it doesnt concern you ?

But then I should have guessed - people like you who hark for secularism when in minority do the absolute opposite and support communal theocratic forces like MB who do the absolute opposite when in majority.

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## Ceylal

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Why on earth would a *Mr. Money-bag like Abdul Rahman Al-Sudais* want to receive a " paycheck " especially when his family is *already ultra rich*


There is no bad deed that goes unrewarded, pal..and he is no different than the others...


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## Solomon2

Egypt Widens Crackdown and Meaning of Islamist




A demonstrator at a march against Egypts military-backed government in Cairo on Friday.

By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK
Published: August 24, 2013

CAIRO  Having crushed the Muslim Brotherhood, the Egyptian authorities have begun cracking down on other dissenters, sometimes labeling even liberal activists or labor organizers as dangerous Islamists.

Ten days ago, the police arrested two left-leaning Canadians  one of them a filmmaker specializing in highly un-Islamic movies about sexual politics  and implausibly announced that they were members of the Brotherhood, the conservative Islamist group backing the deposed president, Mohamed Morsi. In Suez this month, police and military forces breaking up a steelworkers strike charged that its organizers were part of a Brotherhood plot to destabilize Egypt.

On Saturday, the chief prosecutor ordered an investigation into charges of spying against two prominent activists associated with the progressive April 6 group.

When a journalist with a state newspaper spoke publicly about watching a colleagues wrongful killing by a soldier, prosecutors appeared to fabricate a crime to punish the journalist. And the police arrested five employees of the religious Web site Islam Today for the crime of describing the military takeover as a coup, security officials said.

Police abuses and politicized prosecutions are hardly new in Egypt, and they did not stop under Mr. Morsi. But since the military takeover last month, some rights activists say, the authorities are acting with a sense of impunity exceeding even the period before the 2011 revolt against Hosni Mubarak.

The government installed by Gen. Abdul-Fattah el-Sisi has renewed the Mubarak-era state of emergency removing all rights to due process or protections against police abuse. And police officials have pronounced themselves vindicated. They say the new governments claim that it is battling Islamist violence corroborates what they have been saying all along: that it was Islamists, not the police, who killed protesters before Mr. Mubaraks ouster.

What is different is that the police feel for the first time in two and a half years, for the first time since January 2011, that they have the upper hand, and they do not need to fear public accountability or questioning, said Heba Morayef, a researcher for Human Rights Watch.

In the more than seven weeks since Mr. Morsis ouster, security forces have carried out at least three mass shootings at pro-Morsi street protests, killed more than a thousand Morsi supporters and arrested at least as many, actions Ms. Morayef characterized as massive police abuse on an unprecedented scale. But even beyond the Islamists, she said, anyone who questions the police right now is a traitor, and that is a protection that they did not have even in 2010, when public criticism was tolerated and at least a few complaints were investigated.

Prosecutors had already begun investigating Mohamed ElBaradei, the liberal former United Nations diplomat, for betraying the public trust.

President Obama has said the new government is on a dangerous path marked by arbitrary arrests, a broad crackdown on Mr. Morsis associations and supporters and violence thats taken the lives of hundreds of people and wounded thousands more.

Warning that our traditional cooperation cannot continue as usual when civilians are being killed in the streets and rights are being rolled back, the president canceled a planned joint military exercise. He pledged a review of the $1.3 billion a year in military aid to Egypt, and the State Department took steps to hold back some of the roughly $200 million in nonmilitary aid. But mindful of Egypts importance in the region, he stopped short of declaring the takeover an illegal coup or cutting off the aid, instead urging an early return to democracy.

*Officials of the new government insist they are committed to establishing the rule of law, as soon as they overcome what they describe as the mortal threat to Egypt of violence by the Brotherhood and other Islamist supporters of Mr. Morsi.*

The police appear to be rounding up Brotherhood members on the basis of their affiliation, without other publicly known evidence of crimes. Mr. Morsi is being held incommunicado at an undisclosed location. But government spokesmen insist that every individual, including Mr. Morsi, will be tried by a court and released if acquitted.

It is up to the courts, Nabil Fahmy, the interim foreign minister, said in a recent interview. All will be handled in accordance with the rule of law, he said.

But some of the recent charges, like those against the two Canadians, strain credibility. Tarek Loubani, a Canadian physician with Palestinian roots and a history as a liberal and pro-Palestinian activist, was in Egypt on his way to the Gaza Strip to provide training to Palestinian doctors. John Greyson, a liberal Toronto filmmaker whose work often focuses on cosmopolitan sexual themes, was with him, documenting the trip for a possible movie. A lawyer for the two said they were stopped at a checkpoint near a street battle, trying to walk back to their hotel after the 7 p.m. curfew.

They were just in the wrong place at very much the wrong time, the lawyer, Khaled El-Shalakany, said Saturday.

The exact circumstances of their arrest were unclear. In a public statement, Egyptian prosecutors accused them of participating with members of the Muslim Brotherhood in an armed assault on a police station and taking part in bloody crimes of violence. Prosecutors told reporters at the time that the police had detained 240 Brotherhood members, including two Canadians. (Mr. Shalakany said they remained in jail as overwhelmed prosecutors tried to deal with a backlog of hundreds of arrests in the crackdown.)

At the Suez steel plant, workers started a sit-in several weeks ago over compensation, health care and the firing of about a dozen employees. On Aug. 12, state news media reported that the Egyptian military had tried to force an end to the strike, arresting two of its leaders. They picked the ones with beards! a bystander shouts in a video of the arrests.

An army statement at the time used unmistakable coded language to blame the Islamists, charging that infiltrating elements who were exploiters of religion were trying to poison the workers meetings in the name of religion.

A state-run newspaper quoted the interim labor minister, Kamal Abu Eita, saying that security forces had found Brotherhood members from another factory involved in the strike. A privately owned newspaper supporting the military takeover, Youm El Saba, quoted Mr. Eita blaming the Brotherhood for inciting strikes in several cities.

Among some supporters of the new government, Islamist has become a popular indictment. After Mr. Obama criticized Egypts crackdown on the Islamists, Tahani el-Gebali, a former judge close to the military, publicly accused him of having ties to the Brotherhood, claiming his Kenyan half brother directed investments for the group.

The activists with the April 6 group being investigated for spying, Asmaa Mahfouz and Esraa Abdel Fattah, were associated with the group when it was working in opposition to Mr. Mubarak. State news media reports on Saturday indicated the charges were a revival of old allegations that the group had worked on behalf of Western powers to stir unrest in Egypt. The notion was first floated by Mubarak intelligence agencies and the generals who succeeded him, no evidence has emerged to support the claims, and the group has denied the charges.

The journalist who spoke out about his colleagues killing had been driving with the colleague, Tamer Abdel Raouf, the head of the local office of the official newspaper, Al Ahram, in the delta province of Beheira. When their car was at a checkpoint, soldiers enforcing the 7 p.m. curfew shot and killed Mr. Abdel Raouf.

The authorities have granted journalists a curfew exemption, and Mr. Abdel Raouf was driving a car bearing an official press badge from a meeting with the governor. A military spokesman offered no apology, only condolences, and warned others not to try to speed through checkpoints.

The next day, the journalist who had been in the passenger seat, Hamed al-Barbari, began giving television interviews contradicting the spokesman. Rather than speeding, Mr. Barbari said, his colleague was shot in the head while slowly turning his car in response to a soldiers instructions. A foolish act by one soldier, said Mr. Barbari, who was injured when the car crashed.

About two hours after he spoke, a prosecutor arrested Mr. Barbari in the hospital and placed him in custody for four days, for allegedly possessing an illegal shotgun in the car at the time of the episode.

Prosecutors set a court date to begin investigating a citizen complaint against Mr. ElBaradei after he quit as vice president to protest the police violence against the Islamists. (A conviction could carry only a fine, and he had already left the country.)

Last week, a prosecutor even opened an investigation into some of the young organizers behind the protests calling for the military to remove Mr. Morsi. The prosecutor was weighing a complaint of disturbing the public order because they criticized the release from prison of Mr. Mubarak.

Such a case would be an attack on the new governments first supporters. Prosecutors have not yet begun a full investigation of the complaint and could still set it aside.

It is ridiculous, said Mai Wahba, a leader of the group.


_Mayy El Sheikh contributed reporting._
A version of this article appears in print on August 25, 2013, on page A1 of the New York edition with the headline: Egypt Widens Crackdown And Meaning of Islamist.

Solomon2 comment: Is this the anticipated break between the democrats and the military, where "The Families" (as I think of them) tread on the people to regain control? Sure sounds like it, but this may be an aberration. I trust the Egyptian people will soon know the difference, if not _The New York Times_. When it becomes clear The Families are trying to do this, the democrats will have to exert people power to the maximum - and offer some sort of hope to the soldiers who've committed bloody awful deeds that they can still have a future if they break with their commanders.


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## Solomon2

Leading activist says Egypt revolution back at square one

On Sat, 24/08/2013 - 12:03




Reuters
Ahmed Maher's April 6 movement helped lead the uprising that toppled Hosni Mubarak in 2011. With Mubarak now out of jail, he says the revolution is back to square one, and could take a generation to prevail.

After the bloodiest week in Egypt's modern history, Maher fears the consequences of the hatred that has split the country into two rival camps: the army-led state and its backers, and the Islamists they removed from power on July 3.

"Our problem is there is a wave of madness. People tell you: 'We must eradicate them'," Maher said, saying such attitudes had emerged on both sides. "There must be a third voice."

The assessment from one of Egypt's best-known activists underlines the bleak outlook for the country whose January 25, 2011, uprising inspired pro-democracy revolts across the Arab world.

Maher, 32, says it may now be another generation before the goals of the revolution - freedom, social justice and dignity - are secured.

He spoke at a rundown Cairo office where the walls were covered with stickers bearing witness to non-stop activism since 2011: campaigns first against the generals who replaced Mubarak, and later against the elected Muslim Brotherhood-led government.

Protest work itself is becoming a victim of the latest bloodshed: April 6 canceled a rally on Friday against Mubarak's release out of fears it might lead to violence.

"We view ourselves back at square one, because what is happening now could be more dangerous, more complicated than what was there before January 25, 2011," Maher said.

"We don't fully understand what is happening in the new regime," he said. "There are fears of the return of the old regime, its people and methods."

"There are also extremist, radical armed groups."

Maher's April 6 was one of the youth movements that galvanized Egyptians during the 18-day uprising that ended when the army forced Mubarak aside on February 11, 2011.

But like most secular groups, it failed to make much of a political mark once Mubarak was toppled - a failure that helped the Islamists win election after election, culminating with last year's presidential vote that brought Mohamed Mursi to power.

April 6 backed Mursi in that vote, but later turned its countrywide activist network against him, echoing critics who said his Muslim Brotherhood was seeking to entrench its power even as it failed in government.

It gathered 2 million signatures for the Tamarod petition campaign that helped to mobilize protests against Mursi.

"When the army came to power after January 25, the alternative was the Brotherhood. Then the Brotherhood came, and the alternative was the military," he said. "The problem was the two-sided equation from the start. There must be a real alternative."

DIFFICULT TO SPEAK OUT

The Brotherhood is now facing one of the toughest crackdowns in its 85-year history.

Since Mursi's downfall, the security forces have killed at least 1,000 of his supporters, most of them last week when the police used force to break up their two Cairo protest camps.

Some 100 soldiers and police were also killed in bloodshed that has raised fears that an armed Islamist insurrection could ensue, even as the Brotherhood continues to disavow violence.

The police are arresting Brotherhood leaders and supporters across the country. State media say Egypt is fighting terrorism.

Maher said public hatred of the Brotherhood was now running so deep that it was difficult for activists to speak out about worrying trends such as the re-imposition of a state of emergency. "Everyone is directed towards the idea of the 'war on terror', and if there are violations, they are being ignored."

Mubarak's release on Thursday was a symbolic victory for supporters of the veteran autocrat. Though he is being retried for ordering the killing of protesters in the 2011 uprising, there are no longer any legal grounds for his detention.

"Naturally, there are fears, especially after the release of Mubarak," Maher said. "But as a revolution, we knew at the start there could be many setbacks ... We were expecting difficulties. But nobody thought it would be this complicated."

"I should be depressed, and I am depressed, but I still have hope, even with these complications, the violence, these fears. I still have confidence that one day we will see a new Egypt," he said. "My generation might not see these changes. We might be paving the way for the new generation to see these changes."


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## Rafi

What a royal cluster fck.


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## Yzd Khalifa

Ceylal said:


> There is no bad deed that goes unrewarded, pal..and he is no different than the others...



I thought you were against the MB. Anyway, his ultra rich, I suspect that someone like him would sell his soul for a few SR

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## Tanja

FNOTW: Conversation with a Morsi supporter

*FNOTW searches for the voice of the people involved in the conflict. This is a conversation through Facebook with a Morsi supporter named Mohammed Sobhi Abu moaz.*

Mohammed Sobhi Abu moaz is a member of the Facebook group Legitimacy in a peaceful manner that supports the previous President of Egypt, Mohammed Morsi.

*FNOTW: What caused the recent protests in Egypt?*

*Mohammed: *The main reason is the coup President Mohammed Morsi so nominated by the masses of the people.

*FNOTW: What do you think were the reasons that Mohammed Morsi was ousted by the military?
*
*Mohammed:* I Initially objected to the content of the question where you say the army overthrew President Mohammed Morsi. They range from the coup within the military institution and not all army. In addition to the old State security leaders and some other leaders, corrupt police. In cooperation with the secular and liberal, they want a secular Egypt while a large number of Islamists had elected President Mohammed Morsi. 

Abdel Fattah al-Sisi is who led the coup, in cooperation with the rulers of the Emirates, Saudi Arabia and some military and police leaders.

*FNOTW: Why do you support Morsi?*

*Mohammed:* Those against Morsi are the only group of putschists and not the masses of the people. The majority of the people support President Mohammed Morsi. The vast majority of which do not carry a weapon. We are peaceful.

Those against it are some of the putschists and secularists and Liberals, not Democrats Islamists. They are not the majority. The majority are Islamist Democrats.

*FNOTW: Do you think that was a military coup? What are the consequences of a military coup? Has it happened before in Egypt?*

*Mohammed:* Yes, it was a military coup. It would weaken the Egyptian army on the internal conflicts within Egypt. There will be many innocent victims. It is possible that it leads to the civil war. Then the poor economy of Egypt!

Before that occurred in Egypt-Gamal Abdel Nasser, who killed many innocent people also and entered Egypt in successive wars.

*FNOTW: Could you tell me about the election that Morsi won? It is said that he was democratically elected.*

*Mohammed:* President Mohamed Morsi won legitimate elections. Each candidate gave stocks an electoral programmes and then succeeded worth. President Mohamed Morsi was a brotherhood to which it belongs and the Renaissance. Succeeded President Mohamed Morsi by 54% of people. 42% votes for candidate Ahmed Shafik. 4% sounds void.

The Egyptian judiciary then try to declare Ahmed Shafiq despite winning Morsi but feared the reaction of the Egyptian people at the time. They also tried some electoral commissions which belghi declares victory Morsi par excellence ... and did that. War and democracy since Morsi success revolution.

*FNOTW: What do you think about the interim government? Why do you think that they reacted so violently against the protesters?*

*Mohammed:* The interim Government is a Government of the coup. And the coup came to repress demonstrators only. This is the task of the interim Government. 

And some Ministers now want to resign but imposed house arrest. Oppression and repressive policy of the coup against anyone declared that coup.

*FNOTW:Do you know who have been victims of violence?* 

*Mohammed:* I do not know personally. But some of them known leaders of moral. Other people are peaceful and stood to regain their freedom and protested and demonstrated against the military coup, President of the Democratic.

*FNOTW: What do you think should be done in Egypt now?*

*Mohammed: *
- The return to power of President Mohammed Morsi
- Trial of the putschists speedy trial as war criminals. The right of the martyrs
- Investigation into massacres in the coup d ' état
- Massacre (fourth) and the Republican Guard massacre and many atrocities in the rest of the Egyptian governorates
*FNOTW: What do you think about the response of the international community?*

*Mohammed:* The international community's responses are vulnerable. No clear and explicit condemnation except Turkey and Qatar and Brazil, China, Ecuador, Germany, Britain and some countries strong responses.

But America's response is very weak and play with the stick and the carrot to owe very clearly.

*FNOTW: What do you wish to see for a free and democratic Egypt?*

*Mohammed:*
- The return of Mohammed Morsi
- Speedy trial of coup leaders
- Clean the media, judiciary, police, military and Government institutions corrupt
- The Renaissance
- Output all detainees after June 30 of the prisoners
- Right of martyrs

FNOTW thanks Mohammed for the conversation.


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## Jihad_

Egypt's Military-Backed Government Cracks Down on Syrian Refugees | TIME.com



> In his small flat in the Mesekeen Uthman neighborhood on the desert outskirts of Cairo, Hamid pulls prayer beads tensely through his dry fingers, his legs folded beneath him on the living room floor. A flickering television illuminates the walls and a rotating fan beats the hot air. &#8220;It was night,&#8221; he says, recounting his recent arrest. &#8220;Two friends and I were in the apartment. There was a pounding on the door.&#8221; It was an investigator, Hamid recalls. &#8220;Evening, boys,&#8221; the officer said. &#8220;Your passports.&#8221;
> 
> Two months before, when Hamid&#8217;s residency had expired, Mohamed Morsi was still in the presidency, and Hamid wasn&#8217;t worried about being deported from Egypt, where he&#8217;d found a sanctuary from the war in his native Syria. But in the xenophobic atmosphere following Morsi&#8217;s ouster, overstaying one&#8217;s papers has taken on a new danger. &#8220;Come with me,&#8221; the investigator said, and he took Hamid into the night.
> 
> On July 25, the night before Egyptians took to the streets to support military chief Abdul Fattah al-Sisi&#8217;s &#8220;war on terror,&#8221; Qasim, who fled from Dara&#8217;a in southern Syria in early March of this year, was also detained by Egypt&#8217;s Homeland Security forces. Along with his elderly father, he was taken from their home in Mesekeen Uthman by a security officer wearing civilian clothes. Qasim&#8217;s yellow card, which guarantees protection by the U.N. Refugee Agency, did nothing to help him. Waiting for them below their dilapidated apartment tower were five security cars and a troop of Homeland Security officers.
> 
> (MORE: Egypt&#8217;s Military Defends Public Image Abroad After Fighting Protests at Home)
> 
> Hamid (who asked that TIME not use his real name), Qasim, and 17 others were arrested in one fell swoop on July 25 and accused of meddling in Egyptian affairs. The Homeland Security agency, successor of the Mubarak-era state-security body that was abolished after the 2011 revolution, questioned them aggressively about demonstrations at a former Muslim Brotherhood sit-in in northeastern Cairo. Exasperated, Qasim told them that most of the Syrians living in Mesekeen Uthman didn&#8217;t even know where the sit-in was.
> 
> &#8220;Too bad. Some of you have been going to protests with weapons and causing trouble,&#8221; a Homeland Security officer told Qasim. &#8220;Those people have ruined everything for the rest of you.&#8221;
> 
> Hamid and Qasim&#8217;s experience has become commonplace among Syrians in Egypt since the military-backed ouster of Morsi in early July. Mohamad Elmasry, a professor of journalism and mass communication at the American University in Cairo, says Syrian refugees are being scapegoated by the military-backed regime, part of a larger campaign to criminalize the Muslim Brotherhood. &#8220;According to coupist logic, since the Muslim Brotherhood had been generally supportive of Gazans and Syrian refugees, it must follow that Gazans and Syrian refugees are harmful to Egypt,&#8221; Elmasry says. &#8220;Syrian refugees have been blamed for Egypt&#8217;s worsening economy, among other things.&#8221;
> 
> Media praise for the military and demonization of the Brotherhood and minority groups is nothing new in Egypt. What is shocking, Elmasry says, is how many Egyptians have accepted the disparaging stories about Syrians and been willing to participate in acts of repression. &#8220;The past few weeks have witnessed civilian arrests, violence against Syrian refugees and destruction of businesses and other property owned by Syrians,&#8221; Elmasry says.
> 
> (MORE: A Deadly Gamble: Egypt Salafists May Now Regret Support of Military)
> 
> &#8220;It&#8217;s true that security measures have been tightened in Egypt, but the basic policy remains the same,&#8221; Nasser Kamel, the Assistant Minister for Arab Affairs in Egypt&#8217;s Foreign Ministry, says of Syrian refugees. &#8220;I do recognize that some media outlets do not make the distinction [between average Syrian refugees and Brotherhood supporters],&#8221; he says. Regarding claims of cooperation between authorities and the media to vilify Syrians and deflect attention from the military&#8217;s crackdown, Kamel dismisses them categorically as &#8220;totally false and wrong.&#8221;
> 
> According to rights workers, the scapegoating of Syrians began almost immediately after calls for Morsi&#8217;s removal. &#8220;After the 30th of June, I am afraid to leave my apartment because the Egyptian media is saying that Syrians support Morsi,&#8221; Amin Kazkaz, a Syrian rights activist in Cairo working with a local refugee-assistance organization, tells TIME. Since Morsi&#8217;s ouster, promilitary television hosts like Lamis El Hadidi from Egypt&#8217;s CBC channel regularly spout anti-Syrian vitriol, likening them to the Muslim Brotherhood. &#8220;She says things like, &#8216;I support Assad because he&#8217;s killing you and you deserve it,&#8217;&#8221; says Kazkaz, noting that the Egyptian authorities often tolerate this kind of hate speech. In a statement in July, the Arab Network for Human Rights Information condemned the rhetoric against Syrians and Palestinians, declaring that El Hadidi, among several others, were the worst purveyors.
> 
> An accurate number of Syrians arrested is hard to determine. Kazkaz says that hundreds of Syrians have been arbitrarily detained over the past month and a half. Mohamed Dayri, from the U.N. Refugee Agency&#8217;s Cairo office, puts the figure at 160 arrested since early July. Nathanial Kim, assistant director of the Tadamon Council, Egypt&#8217;s largest refugee-serving organization, asserts that the number is far higher. He says that since June 30, there have been more than 500 Syrians arrested in Cairo and Alexandria, but there are likely hundreds more arrests outside of the major cities going unreported. He notes that the U.N. Refugee Agency&#8217;s numbers are lower because they only track those registered with the U.N.
> 
> (MORE: Viewpoint: Egypt No Longer Matters)
> 
> The targeting of Syrian refugees has raised concerns that Egypt might return to a Murabak-style security state. Elmasry thinks that is a real possibility. &#8220;I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s any question that what has happened in Egypt is part of a larger counter&#8211;Jan. 25 revolution,&#8221; he says. &#8220;The constitution has been suspended; numerous media outlets have been shut down without due process; there have been numerous political arrests, also without due process. Mubarak&#8217;s notorious state-security apparatus has been reintroduced.&#8221;
> 
> If the persecution of vulnerable Syrian refugees is an indicator of political trajectory, Egypt&#8217;s future may well be grim. Elmasry worries about the future for Syrians if the military-backed regime continues to solidify its power. &#8221;Policies forcing them out of Egypt are likely, and I would not be surprised to see more anti-Syrian vigilante violence, particularly if media rhetoric continues to be as hysterical as it is,&#8221; Elmasry says. &#8220;I hope I am wrong.&#8221;


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## XENOHARMONIA DRAGON

the future of egypt is secure.......until basra in iraq destroyed...........and nile river dry.........after that egypt will fall and destroyed into ash

* There will be devastation all around the World. Ultimately, Egypt will also be ruined, but until Basra is destroyed, Egypt will remain secure. The destruction of Basra will be due to Iraq's destruction. Meanwhile, the downfall of Egypt will come with the drying up of the Nile... (Qurtubi, Mukhtasar Tazkirah, p. 530)*

The Destiny & fate of iraq,syria and now egypt are only one Total Destruction...........
The program just begin..........

From 2013 to 2076..............The Great end time war is come hoho


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## Ceylal

Yzd Khalifa said:


> I thought you were agains*t the MB*. Anyway, his ultra rich, I suspect that someone like him would sell his soul for a few SR


I am against political Islam. I am very familiar of the lasting effect of the Egyptian MB's in Algeria. Although I do not agree with the heavy hand of the Egyptian army, I do understand her reaction. As I mentioned all those forces that are active in ME, whether a Cheikh or a djihadi, all of them are without agenda , but work for the highest bidder.
http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/x...xh_160728889.jpg.pagespeed.ic.QsNuAMIKjH.webp

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## Yzd Khalifa

@Ceylal

I understand what you're trying to say, and I feel sorry for everything Algeria had gone through at the hands of radicals.  

I'm positively sure that Egypt will stand on its feet once more.


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## islamrules




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## revojam

Same guy photographed as dead on five different locations.


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## olcayto

revojam said:


> Same guy photographed as dead on five different locations.



Do you actually look at the stuff you post, or are you just blindly copy pasting?


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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Prof.Dr.Hisham Sisi, the real cousin of Junta Geni Sisi who living in London revealed some hiden weird infos about Gen. Sisi..
Prof. Sisi said his cousin is an traitor, has very close relations with Masonic clubs in Egytpt..Gen. Sisi wife,Nihad Sisi's brother Tarek Nour is the precident of masonic all Lions Clubs in Cairo. Tarek Nour has many media institutions and Sattelite TV channels. Tarek Nour and Copti businesman Najeeb Saweras were tha main sponsor of Tamarroud..






i think Erdogan was right in accusing Israel with her directly involvement in Coup plan..Day by day more evidences come out that proof Erdogan's claim..

BTW, Junta raids on other politic parties which against coup and arrested dozens people by claiming them are MB members...Pissi junta losing support of people more and more and even has less support than Mobrak regime as in the power.

Right now, MB as the fighting idea and cause is in most powerful era of all his time in Egypt. .Military coup made MB the bigest front in Egypt and Arab world. An idea can be defeated only by another alternative idea not by weapons..Intervention with Weapons make an idea more rightful and powerful..
an idea stood all fights with weopans gonna to win war at the last..Egypt is an very historical country and Egyptians are noble people.. It is impoosbile to control 80 million of Egyptians by amry power and bribed money for long time..Next future will be the era of MB in Egypt.

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## ELTurco

revojam said:


> Same guy photographed as dead on five different locations.



Same place just different angles.

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## ELTurco

XENOHARMONIA DRAGON said:


> the future of egypt is secure.......until basra in iraq destroyed...........and nile river dry.........after that egypt will fall and destroyed into ash
> 
> * There will be devastation all around the World. Ultimately, Egypt will also be ruined, but until Basra is destroyed, Egypt will remain secure. The destruction of Basra will be due to Iraq's destruction. Meanwhile, the downfall of Egypt will come with the drying up of the Nile... (Qurtubi, Mukhtasar Tazkirah, p. 530)*
> 
> The Destiny & fate of iraq,syria and now egypt are only one Total Destruction...........
> The program just begin..........
> 
> From 2013 to 2076..............The Great end time war is come hoho



Bro can you tell us about future of Turkey.

I would like to hear from you that would be interesting if there is any info about Turkey.


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## Solomon2

OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
Egypts Journalists, Still Under Siege





By IBRAHIM ESSA
Published: August 26, 2013 29 Comments

CAIRO  *I LOOKED on, astonished, as a man a few yards away told protesters that he would slaughter me.*

He spoke resolutely and enthusiastically, and seemed utterly willing to carry out his promise.

The man, a leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, stood among thousands of stick-waving supporters, their beards long and their faces angry, as they chanted God is great and Down with infidels. They watched him make the familiar and menacing gesture of tracing his finger across his throat as he said, We will slaughter Ibrahim Essa.

This was in March. I was in a car trying to get to the Egyptian Media Production City, a compound a half-hours drive west from downtown Cairo that houses many television studios, to record my daily TV program, which was critical of the Brotherhood and its political leader, President Mohamed Morsi. The group had surrounded the compound and locked its gates. They had set up tents at the front and communal toilets outside the walls.

I had gotten used to threats during the long rule of President Hosni Mubarak, which dragged me before its courts about 70 times and sentenced me to prison on four occasions. But the Morsi era was different. *Under Mr. Mubarak, I was threatened only with prison; under Mr. Morsi, my life was in danger.*

The Morsi supporters siege of the Media City compound was airtight. They hung up my picture, alongside that of other commentators critical of Mr. Morsi, with nooses drawn around our necks so that we looked like wanted criminals from old Westerns. Meanwhile, they searched all those who came in and out of the studios, destroying cars and attacking some of the journalists and Morsi opponents whod had the bad luck of being scheduled for a TV appearance.

Later, a reformist judge who looks somewhat like me told me that, after leaving a TV show where he had been a guest, some of the Brothers mistook him for me. The judge screamed that he wasnt Ibrahim Essa, and proved it by showing them his belt. (Ive become well known for wearing suspenders, so much so that the Brothers mockingly call me Ibrahim Abu-Suspenders.) As the judge told the story, he blinked back tears, still reeling from the fear and tension.

The night of the siege, we journalists drove down abandoned back roads in the desert to reach the studio, driving past walls of barbed wire that brought to mind images of the United States-Mexico border. My co-workers at the TV show were already heroic for coming to work despite the pressures of the siege, the threats and the constant fear, and on top of it all they had to ensure my security and daily survival.

Even today, nearly two months after a popular revolution removed Mr. Morsi in July, Media City remains under threat by the Brothers, who accuse the media of being the prime instigators of the revolt against Mr. Morsi and the Brotherhood. The power of reporters and commentators to lead a revolution would come as a surprise to my colleagues, whose open secret is a constant despair at being unable to change much of anything.

Threats, sieges and targeting of journalists are among the Brothers favorite tactics, and they continue to bide their time with such activities, despite the ouster of Mr. Morsi and the violent crackdown on the Brotherhood.

Just last week, the sound of bullets was so loud and close that we all rushed into the lobby of the hotel near the Media Production City. Since the imposition of an emergency curfew following the Brotherhoods attacks on churches, journalists, government bureaucrats and ordinary citizens, the hotel has become a twin of Baghdads famous Rashid Hotel during the Iraq war: a place of gathering and shelter for journalists. When the bullets died down, we made sure no one had been hurt.

On my first night at the hotel, a motorcycle carrying three men tried to crash into the lobby. They fired shots into the hotel, and a police chase ensued. When two of the three were captured, they said that they had just been lost in the desert and confused, a funny excuse for something that was not funny at all.

Remaining in the hotel with other television journalists, also living under death threats, was terribly depressing. For safetys sake, I asked a police officer to escort me back to Media City, even though my house is only 10 minutes from the compound. As the siren of the police car driving ahead of me blared its way through the curfew and I sat next to a police officer in a bulletproof vest holding an automatic rifle, I recalled the day in 1992 when I opened the door to my apartment and found an officer from the Interior Ministry, warning me that I had appeared on a militant groups list of assassination targets because of my criticism of Islamists.

At the time, I was writing against the rising tide of terrorism and extremism during a difficult phase in Egypts history. I was also single. Looking around my small, sparsely furnished apartment in obvious distaste, the officer asked me if I wanted a moving guard (who would accompany me everywhere I went) or a fixed guard (who would just stand outside my home or workplace). I told him that I didnt own a car, and asked whether the officer would just ride the subway or the public bus with me. The officer was fed up with me and decided I would get a fixed guard.

The guards job was to accompany me as I crossed the street, then stand by my side as I negotiated with taxi drivers to take me to work. Once Id found my ride for the day, he would wave, then go back to his post outside my apartment building. Later, when I learned more about confessions by members of the group that had targeted me, I learned that they knew where I lived, that the sister of one of the men lived nearby, and that I had been under threat wherever I went. During this period, I learned to be brave in the face of death, and since then, I have not feared anything else. Since the start of my career, I have faced accusations of blasphemy and death threats. I have been fired; seen publications Ive edited get shut down; and watched as copies of my novel Assassination of the Big Man were seized.

Last week, as I waited for the police car to escort me to the studio and for the fully armed officer next to me to shield me from a potential attack, I found history repeating itself on a grander, more dangerous scale. Its as if terrorism will never end, and my fate is to face death because of what I write and what I say. Sometimes, when I set out for work and say goodbye to my wife and children, I feel like a soldier waving to his family from a train as he heads toward battle.

_Ibrahim Essa is co-founder and editor in chief of Al Tahrir, a daily newspaper founded in 2011, and the author, most recently, of the novel Our Master. This essay was translated by Ghenwa Hayek from the Arabic._


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## Ceylal

Egypt at stand still...The Ikhwan killed the economy.


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## hussain0216

Ceylal said:


> Egypt at stand still...The Ikhwan killed the economy.



Wrong dick head the liberals and their military coup killed the economy

Good luck trying to fix the mess


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## XENOHARMONIA DRAGON

for now turkey will safe.......based prophet hadits...2 christian faction will united to attack istanbul......roman chatolic & ortodox christian....will join force

in future russia (rum) will make alliance with roman (europe/west) to attack & conquer turkey....istanbul will fallen....after that Russia & West will launch attack to arabian peninsula..they will conquer khyber near medina....
several years later muslim army with al-mahdi will fight back and conquer turkey for second time.....its sad i like istanbul and turkey.they are beautiful country....
but you cannot change the fate

my suggestion for turkey people..& middle east people.......if you can please move/hijra to central asia country like azerbaijan,turkmenistan,kazakhastan,uzbekistan etc...... central asia/khurasan & mecca/medina will safe in future war...Allah SWT will protect them

Imam mahdi army will come from khurasan/central asia.....for now im in japan...for study.... i have plan in future to move & live in central asia country...and if possible i want marriying central asia women.....they are beautiful hoho

us attack to syria will be sign of the beginning great end time war mathamah kubra...civil war will coming to arabian peninsula....

4 place will save in great future end time war....Mecca,Madina,Al-Aqsha & Khurasan/Central Asia
MOVED Now............before late

1500 Hijiri /2076 CE..........The End Of Islamic Caliphate......after 2076.........step by step human will forgot about islam...........

*The Lifespan Of My Ummah will Not Exceed 1500 years*

o......egypt muslim & turkey muslim people...please moved now.....leave your country...khurasan/central asia is best place for you.....

egypt,iraq & syria will destroyed...................istanbul/turkey will fallen..........We cannot change the fate..

its sad....................

May Allah SWT give the highest paradise for the egypt martyrdom..........ammiin


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## anonymus

hussain0216 said:


> Wrong dick head the liberals and their military coup killed the economy
> 
> Good luck trying to fix the mess




One of my friend forwarded this link to me.






Looks like Egyptians are launching counter R4bia propaganda.


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## islamrules




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## islamrules

Today is the "Decisive" Friday

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## islamrules

some of the 3 killed in Today's protests :

































this is " Itihadia " where the protesters arrived a while ago

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## islamrules



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## islamrules



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## islamrules



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## iranigirl2

New Egypt protests leave at least six dead - latimes.com


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## Frogman

The protests failed, badly.

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## Ceylal

Frogman said:


> The protests failed, badly.



They have been laminated like cartons..Good riddance!


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## Falcon29

I just got back from Egypt and spent two days there, the military is deployed at every checkpoint and major intersection. The economy has been bad before the MB was in power and is not a new thing. It's mainly due to Arabic governments and their policy towards their people. And that doesn't seem to change still. 

Although I would like to add the chaos seen on TV and social media is hardly noticeable there. Only in a few streets, but they were large during earlier protests in about 2km of one street I saw. There was a curfew at 9 in the night there and if you get stopped at a checkpoint you'll have to sleep in your car right at the spot. 

All Palestinians were also stopped at every checkpoint, this disappointed me greatly. Even the ones with foreign passports. And we had to wait for long periods at some checkpoints. But, it isn't the fault of the troops on the ground. And they were very respectful towards us and at one point we were laughing with and we drank tea together and I was going to sit on the edge of the road and the soldier swore to make us sit on chairs available there. 

So we had a good experience with the soldiers, but the authorities are a lot worse and most aren't good willed. 

Overall, had a good experience with the soldiers. And it largely seems under control there. So this thread isn't really going to update you on much. My main concern was some things helpless Egyptians believed about the MB and Hamas that they were fed by their media. 

Basically I would have a lot of bad things to say, like the Rafah border which Egypt has an unrealistic policy towards and several areas where I saw the military shouldn't be involved. They are almost like a civilian institution run by the military. In a way it works though. But, the respect from several men in Egypt made me think otherwise. 

They also were blowing tunnels up on the Gaza Egypt border which disappointed me as well.

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Frogman said:


> The protests failed, badly.


 
No failed..Pissi junta army fighting with MB in wrong methods..Currently MB is very popular than all time ever..fighting against an popular idea and cause with arms and massive killings will make that idea more powerful..this situation was proven in history countless times..An ideas or cause can be exterminaated only by an another alternative ideas..Bu as you know, creating an new idea and cause is most hard than all other works..

So, as long as you have no more superior idea than your rivals you are doomed to lose. there is no alternative idea to be rival against MB not only in Egypt even in arab world.. After coup MB known more widely and became more popular in Egypt and arround world..The most powerful rival for MB was KSA backed Salafi pary Al Nour not Liberals and Laics..But upon Al Nour party supported the coup they have lost a great credibility and missed millions supporters. 

Now, MB become unrivalled thanks to bird brianed junta staffs..indeed, MB was not expecting topple of Mobarak regime so quickly was not ready to administrate Egypt..Appearently their staffs were some imcompetent to rule EGypt..they would be failed and lost the next election due to an possible mismanagement if they have been allowed to rule country untill next election. Yet, Junta made an crucial mistake in favour of MB..

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## Frogman

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> No failed..Pissi junta army fighting with MB in wrong methods..Currently MB is very popular than all time ever..fighting against an popular idea and cause with arms and massive killings will make that idea more powerful..this situation was proven in history countless times..An ideas or cause can be exterminaated only by an another alternative ideas..Bu as you know, creating an new idea and cause is most hard than all other works..
> 
> So, as long as you have no more superior idea than your rivals you are doomed to lose. there is no alternative idea to be rival against MB not only in Egypt even in arab world.. After coup MB known more widely and became more popular in Egypt and arround world..The most powerful rival for MB was KSA backed Salafi pary Al Nour not Liberals and Laics..But upon Al Nour party supported the coup they have lost a great credibility and missed millions supporters.
> 
> Now, MB become unrivalled thanks to bird brianed junta staffs..indeed, MB was not expecting topple of Mobarak regime so quickly was not ready to administrate Egypt..Appearently their staffs were some imcompetent to rule EGypt..they would be failed and lost the next election due to an possible mismanagement if they have been allowed to rule country untill next election. Yet, Junta made an crucial mistake in favour of MB..



You have no idea what you're talking about, so please spare me the cruelty of a reply.

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## Syrian Lion

*Al-Qaeda Declares War on the Egyptian Army in an Audio Recording... More Violence Coming to Egypt?
*

Abu Muhammad al-Adnani, a leader in al-Qaeda's "Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant" (ISIL), has made a statement in which he calls all those like-minded Wahhabis to join in fighting against the Egyptian Army, which he considers as infidel and a tool that protects the tyrants and minorities. Al-Adnani also attacked both the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and the Egyptian Salafi al-Noor party for being too peaceful and not resorting to violence, the way his group operates.


Al-Qaeda Declares War on the Egyptian Army in an Audio Recording... More Violence Coming to Egypt? - YouTube

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## Solomon2

Brotherhood 'Anti-Violence Movement' Condemns Leaders




_The blood from members of the Muslim Brotherhood and supporters of deposed Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi stain the floor near a poster of Morsi which reads "Yes to legitimacy, No to the coup" at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, near their campsite at Rabia al-Adawiya square, in Nasr city area, east of Cairo, July 28, 2013. (photo by REUTERS/Amr Abdallah Dalsh)_​
*By: Mustafa Amara Translated from Azzaman (Iraq).*[August 30, 2013]

The most significant outcome of the recent clashes that erupted between the Egyptian authorities and the Muslim Brotherhood is the emergence of the Brothers Without Violence movement, which aims to correct the mistakes committed by Muslim Brotherhood leaders. These mistakes have led to a decline in the popularity of the group as well as to security attacks. In this context, _Azzaman_ interviewed Hussein Abdel Rahman, the media spokesman for the Brothers Without Violence movement, and asked him about his take on the current developments.

Azzaman: When and how was the Brothers Without Violence movement established, and is this movement a substitute for the Muslim Brotherhood?

Abdel Rahman: The Brothers Without Violence movement was born during the events at the Republican Guard headquarters, when Muslim Brotherhood leaders incited protesters in front of the headquarters, leading to 53 deaths. This massacre created a desire among some of the groups youth in Cairo and other governorates to reconsider their path and get rid of the leaders of the militant group who follow Qutbism. The fact is that those leaders made mistakes that led to the decline of the groups image among the public, and made people perceive it as a terrorist group, especially following the Rabia al-Adawiya sit-in. Yet still, we do not consider ourselves to be a substitute for the group, but we are a corrective movement that emerged from the group. We still believe in the legitimacy of President Mohammed Morsi and are trying to express our opinions in a peaceful manner.

Azzaman: Being among those who participated in the events at the Republican Guard headquarters, who do you think is responsible for the massacre that occurred there?

Abdel Rahman: Both parties share responsibility. The leaders had incited [the protesters] to go to the Republican Guard headquarters and provoked the security forces. In contrast, there was a profusion of violence on the part of the republican guard forces against the demonstrators. Live rounds were used without firing warning shots, which led to the death of 53 people, while the guards only lost one officer.

Azzaman: Does the emergence of the Brothers Without Violence movement mean that the old form of the group will change with the appearance of a new generation of young people, who embrace new ideas that fit the current developments?

Abdel Rahman: I think that this needs at least 10 years, but we have succeeded in some things such as the withdrawal of confidence from the provincial secretaries.

Azzaman: What do you think of the current campaign waged by some political forces in a bid to remove the Muslim Brotherhood from the political scene?

Abdel Rahman: Although the image of the Muslim Brotherhood has been shaken in the street as a result of the recent events, the group should not be excluded because it is an integral part of the fabric of society. The best solution is to prosecute the leaders who are responsible for the acts of violence. As for the random arrests that are collectively made against members of the group, these are unacceptable because they are contrary to the law and a reproduction of the former regime that practiced unlawful arrests.

Azzaman: What is your position on the armys call for dialogue, knowing that this army resorted to violence?

Abdel Rahman: We do not reject the armys call, but the Muslim Brotherhood must be prepared for this dialogue to succeed, [and the authorities can do this] by releasing the detainees and correcting the mistakes committed by the military leadership. The military encroached upon the will of the people on June 30 and demanded early presidential elections as well as the abolition of a constitution upon which a referendum was held. Had it not been for these mistakes, there would not have been bloodshed.

Azzaman: What is your position on the Free Brothers movement?

Abdel Rahman: The Free Brothers movement is a branch of the Brothers Without Violence movement. We fall under the same category, and we are trying to calm the situation and engage in a national dialogue based on certain grounds that require admitting mistakes were made, for this dialogue to succeed.

Azzaman: Based on your participation in the Rabia al-Adawiya sit-in, what is the validity of the governments charges against protesters of possessing weapons and the claims that non-Egyptian nationals participated in the protest?

Abdel Rahman: There were indeed some heavy weapons and other types of weapons, and people from other nationalities participated in the sit-in based on the fact that they were members of the international Muslim Brotherhood, but there were double standards in dealing with the protesters. The Tahrir protests continued for six months and included attacks on the police. Yet still, no one moved.

Azzaman: Are you in contact with the other movements that are part of the political arena?

Abdel Rahman: Yes, we communicate with Tamarod and some other movements  such as the April 6 movement led by Ahmed Maher  as we have common grounds. But we have reservations about the dialogue with the National Salvation Front, which is calling for our exclusion and for the arrest of Muslim Brotherhood youth, as they call for dialogue. What kind of dialogue are they calling for in such an atmosphere?

Azzaman: What is your position on participating in the presidential election?

Abdel Rahman: We must be realistic. Although we believe in the legitimacy of President Morsi, the practical reality asserts the opposite. Therefore, if we do not deal flexibly with the current reality and if the group insists on violence, then we'll forget everything.

Azzaman: What is the impact of the arrest of Muslim Brotherhood leaders, most notably Supreme Guide Mohammed Badie, on the work of the group in the next stage?

Abdel Rahman: The arrest of the group's leaders, including the current leader, will not affect the Muslim Brotherhoods work. According to the dynamics of the group, if the first-row leaders are arrested, their prerogatives are reassigned to the second-row leaders. And each and every one of those leaders has five substitutes. Therefore, the arrest of those leaders will only result in a moral effect.

Azzaman: There are conflicting reports about the whereabouts of Muslim Brotherhood leader Mahmoud Ezzat, where is he now? Will his nomination [as interim supreme guide] lead to more extremism as far as the position of the group is concerned?

Abdel Rahman: No one knows where he is and whether he is in Egypt or Gaza  as reported by some media outlets. Ezzats position is more extreme because he belongs to the Qutbist current, and he will work during the next phase to confuse the political scene through the use of violence and the continuation of marches and demonstrations.

Azzaman: Former Muslim Brotherhood leader Hamdi Hassan downplayed the importance of the Brothers Without Violence movement in an interview we conducted with him, and questioned the subordination of that movement to the state security apparatus, what is your response?

Abdel Rahman: I would like to recall here what [former Supreme Guide] Badie said during the sit-in at Rabia al-Adawiya square: There are some Muslim Brotherhood youth who must be controlled. We are proud of their affiliation with the Muslim Brotherhood, which follows a moderate Islamist ideology, while some leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood renounce their belonging to it.

Azzaman: What is your take on the release of former President Hosni Mubarak?

Abdel Rahman: The current regime is relapsing and resorting to the former one. The current minister of transport is responsible for the train accident that occured in Upper Egypt during Mubaraks era. There are many remnants of the former regime in the current government, and they will be even more oppressive.

Azzaman: Amid persisting violence in the Sinai against the army and the police, some people are accusing Muslim Brotherhood leaders, mainly Mohamed Beltagy and Ezzat, of being involved in those incidents. Are these claims valid?

Abdel Rahman: * The international organization of the Muslim Brotherhood earmarked a sum of $250 million to fund some jihadist movements in the Sinai, like al-Gama'a al-Islamiya and the Salah al-Dine Brigades, and supply them with arms sometimes to conduct acts of violence against the army and the police. *Unfortunately, some are accusing Muslim Brotherhood youth of committing these acts, but it is not true. They are innocent of such acts that are caused by some leaders who have adopted the approach of Sayyid Qutb, such as Essam al-Aryan, Safwat Hegazi and Tarek al-Zomor. As for Badie, he did not manage any recent acts; Ezzat is actually the current mastermind of the Muslim Brotherhood.

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## agentny17

The Egyptian Renaissance &The End of the Muslim Brotherhood

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## Yzd Khalifa

agentny17 said:


> The Egyptian Renaissance &The End of the Muslim Brotherhood



Welcome to the 2nd revolution
Mission accomplished

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## hussain0216

The mission to take back Egypt from the liberals, army and christians has only begun

The muslims will do in Egypt what they have done to assad in syria


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## Frogman

*Egypt's Minister Mohammed Ibrahim survives bomb attack*

*Egypt's Interior Minister Mohammed Ibrahim has survived a car bomb attack that targeted his convoy in Cairo.*

Hours after the blast, he appeared on state-run TV to denounce the attack as a "cowardly assassination bid".

Many guards were injured, he added, after a bomb "exploded at a distance" as his convoy was en route from his home in Nasr City to the ministry.

Nasr City is a stronghold of the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood group, but there is no word on who was involved.

The explosion took place at about 10:30 local time (08:30 GMT) near Mr Ibrahim's home on Mustafa al-Nahas street.

There are conflicting reports over the source of the explosion, with state-run Mena news agency saying a booby-trapped car detonated as the minister's convoy passed by.

However, state TV gave a different account of the incident, saying an explosive device was thrown from the top of a nearby building and detonated near the minister's convoy just after it left his place of residence.

Pictures uploaded to the internet by witnesses showed substantial damage to a building next to the blast.

Egyptian police have reportedly killed two of the attackers, security sources told Reuters news agency. 

The Egyptian interior ministry says an attempt to assassinate the minister of the interior by "terrorist groups" was foiled. They say his guards confronted the attackers.

The interior minister is in charge of the country's police force, which alongside security forces, carried out a deadly security crackdown in the capital last month, clearing two protest camps set up by Muslim Brotherhood supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi.

They had rallied for six weeks demanding the reinstatement of Mr Morsi, who was deposed by the military two months ago following anti-government protests by millions of Egyptians.

Nasr City was the site of the larger of the two protest camps based outside Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque, which was dismantled in the security operation that killed hundreds of Brotherhood supporters on 14 August.

The BBC's Bethany Bell says there has been a lot of Muslim Brotherhood activity in the area over the last couple of weeks.

Since the security clampdown, hundreds of Brotherhood supporters have been detained, including the group's most senior leader, Mohammed Badie, and his deputy, Khairat al-Shatir.

Mr Morsi is currently being held in a secret location awaiting trial on charges of inciting murder during anti-government protests that occurred in December 2012.

BBC News - Egypt's Minister Mohammed Ibrahim survives bomb attack


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## Falcon29

Frogman, what'd you expect? After targeting MB members, arresting and torturing them. Killing unarmed protesters. Killing the children of MB members. Having a very dictatorial policy censoring all media you don't like, hundreds of channels. Even trying to tackle social media. Being hypocrites and supporting a 'Tamarod' group against the ruling government and in reality they are a splinter group for the Egyptian military had they tried 'peacefully' protesting what they call 'dictators', whom they say so when referring to Hamas in Gaza. Lets see them protest against an actual dictatorial government which is sitting right with them in Egypt. The army has become disgusting, it only serves the elites interest. They don't care for their population outside cities they favor. If any Egyptians whom Gaza has sheltered try any stupid attempt to overthrow the government because all they care for is serving the Egyptian and Israeli military interest and they are literally hired by Egyptians we're gonna fuvkin kick your ***** and kick every piece of **** Egyptian out of our land. You're only good at bombing your own villagers with F16's and drones and helicopters. I would like to see this hypocritical group try opening their mouths against the oppressive Egyptian military. They'd be tortured or killed right away. They're lucky Hamas is being patient with a unrealistic group which own cares to serve its own interests and doesn't have actual numbers in Gaza and aren't even Palestinian. Only a facebook group and a group from Egypt which only cares about its money, which is way their trying to expand their group elsewhere under the disguise of fighting 'dictators'. Egyptian stupid group better not stick it's nose in Gaza. People who serve Israel never succeed in Gaza. We are ALL against YOU.


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## Frogman

@Hazzy997

Calm down. Once you do that we can have a rational conversation about all the issues you have brought up.


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## hussain0216

The egyptian military and fake government are killers and ******'s...

For the sake of the people of Egypt and the middle east assad, arab kings, military junta's and liberal puppets of all types need to be removed so our countries can move forward


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Hazzy997 said:


> Frogman, what'd you expect? After targeting MB members, arresting and torturing them. Killing unarmed protesters. Killing the children of MB members. Having a very dictatorial policy censoring all media you don't like, hundreds of channels. Even trying to tackle social media. Being hypocrites and supporting a 'Tamarod' group against the ruling government and in reality they are a splinter group for the Egyptian military had they tried 'peacefully' protesting what they call 'dictators', whom they say so when referring to Hamas in Gaza. Lets see them protest against an actual dictatorial government which is sitting right with them in Egypt. The army has become disgusting, it only serves the elites interest. They don't care for their population outside cities they favor. If any Egyptians whom Gaza has sheltered try any stupid attempt to overthrow the government because all they care for is serving the Egyptian and Israeli military interest and they are literally hired by Egyptians we're gonna fuvkin kick your ***** and kick every piece of **** Egyptian out of our land. You're only good at bombing your own villagers with F16's and drones and helicopters. I would like to see this hypocritical group try opening their mouths against the oppressive Egyptian military. They'd be tortured or killed right away. They're lucky Hamas is being patient with a unrealistic group which own cares to serve its own interests and doesn't have actual numbers in Gaza and aren't even Palestinian. Only a facebook group and a group from Egypt which only cares about its money, which is way their trying to expand their group elsewhere under the disguise of fighting 'dictators'. Egyptian stupid group better not stick it's nose in Gaza. People who serve Israel never succeed in Gaza. We are ALL against YOU.


it doesnt matter what you want your terrorist friends will be out of Egypt they belong to fucked up places like gaza



hussain0216 said:


> The egyptian military and fake government are killers and ******'s...
> 
> For the sake of the people of Egypt and the middle east assad, arab kings, military junta's and liberal puppets of all types need to be removed so our countries can move forward


and you should continue your jihad from the UK like a *****

to all brotherhood supporters 
go **** yourself


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## Mahmoud_EGY

a kid has lost his leg


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## Ceylal

Hazzy997 said:


> Frogman, what'd you expect? After targeting MB members, arresting and torturing them. Killing unarmed protesters. Killing the children of MB members. Having a very dictatorial policy censoring all media you don't like, hundreds of channels. Even trying to tackle social media. Being hypocrites and supporting a 'Tamarod' group against the ruling government and in reality they are a splinter group for the Egyptian military had they tried 'peacefully' protesting what they call 'dictators', whom they say so when referring to Hamas in Gaza. Lets see them protest against an actual dictatorial government which is sitting right with them in Egypt. The army has become disgusting, it only serves the elites interest. They don't care for their population outside cities they favor. If any Egyptians whom Gaza has sheltered try any stupid attempt to overthrow the government because all they care for is serving the Egyptian and Israeli military interest and they are literally hired by Egyptians we're gonna fuvkin kick your ***** and kick every piece of **** Egyptian out of our land. You're only good at bombing your own villagers with F16's and drones and helicopters. I would like to see this hypocritical group try opening their mouths against the oppressive Egyptian military. They'd be tortured or killed right away. They're lucky Hamas is being patient with a unrealistic group which own cares to serve its own interests and doesn't have actual numbers in Gaza and aren't even Palestinian. Only a facebook group and a group from Egypt which only cares about its money, which is way their trying to expand their group elsewhere under the disguise of fighting 'dictators'. Egyptian stupid group better not stick it's nose in Gaza. People who serve Israel never succeed in Gaza. We are ALL against YOU.



Hazzy don't you think that you are directing your anger to the wrong direction?






Political Islam, the end of a big lie

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## islamrules

Inside Job . Pissi never learns .


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## Falcon29

Ceylal said:


> Hazzy don't you think that you are directing your anger to the wrong direction?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Political Islam, the end of a big lie



I'm not defending the MB, I'm criticizing Egypt's policy with censorship, the Gaza Strip, disproportionate violence, interference in others affairs and arrests without trial and detentions. 

Now for MB, I blame for making a mistake they shouldn't have made. Which was entering the elections, America only allowed it to happen so they can bring them back 50 years and that is literally what happened after the outcome. 

There's no such thing as letting the MB control a country like Egypt especially with its place in the Arabic world.


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## Yzd Khalifa

Assisnation attempt of Egypt interm MoI 
&#x202b;

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## Doritos11

I don't see any assasination attempt.


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## Frogman

Doritos11 said:


> I don't see any assasination attempt.



Check out post #3714. The post by Yzd is a post assassination attempt interview.


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## Ceylal




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## Ceylal

Rob3a ...un navet (turnip)? 






But wait, the MB's and Merde Erdogan will see it as a signe of God...


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## Solomon2

Egypt&#8217;s monuments and scientific research the biggest loser of Brotherhood sit-ins dispersal

On Sat, 31/08/2013 - 12:39



Al-Masry Al-Youm

Not only has Egypt&#8217;s cultural heritage been victim to recent political instability, several state bodies have shown scientific research has also taken a big hit. In addition to looting of monuments and archaeological establishments, two research centers have been burned: at Cairo University&#8217;s Faculty of Engineering and at Orman Garden&#8217;s. Two weeks after dispersal of sit-ins and protests by supporters of ex-President Mohamed Morsy, science and history have been at whim of those making political choices, who often have little regard for studying the impact of the violence or confronting it.

For over two weeks, Ahmed abdel Fattah and his colleagues have been cleaning the building of ashes and burnt papers. As they remove a pile of ashes, a fire was quickly rekindled in the same pile of debris. Workers try to extinguish it with water but it takes only few hours for the fire to engulf the same pile all over again. &#8220;Everyday in the morning we remove the ashes only to find that a fire was restarted from the pile beneath. We put it out with water, then the fire starts again after few hours. A fire will start from the ashes every day until it will have gutted everything in the building,&#8221; abdel Fattah said impatiently.

&#8220;Books, documents, air conditioners, computers and everything was on fire for one week,&#8221; he added.

Ashes cover the ground on the third floor. The odor still lingered in the air. Only pillars on the third floor of the faculty&#8217;s administrative office remain. Flames can be seen everyday. Civil protection forces tried to rescue the panel that reads &#8216;Cairo University- Faculty of Engineering.. established in 1905&#8217;

Before the Giza governorate office, which Morsy supporters burnt and used to post his portrait, there stood several vehicles loaded with new wooden boards with the hope that they could keep the building standing until it would be renovated following the fires that started in several places in the country on 16 August during protests of Morsy supporters.

Dozens of workers were standing around the building in a similtar scene as a week earlier when protesters were on site.

&#8220;Where is your helmet? How can you go inside without it? You are in danger and prone to anything that could fall on you,&#8221; we heard while entering into the debris of the governorate building which was established by end of the nineteenth century. Only few papers and an outdoor structure about ready to collapse remained after the fire.

Old paintings and hanged carpets inside the governor&#8217;s office as well as the internal stairs were found, according to Mohamed Saad, a security personnel who has been in charge of securing the building for more than two years. &#8220;We couldn&#8217;t protect the building as security inside the building was not enough, which enabled number of Morsy supporters to storm and burn it.&#8221;

Despite the end of official working hours, the main gate of Orman garden built in 1875 that overlooks the Nahda Square was still opened, not by the garden&#8217;s administration or the visitors, but by an armored vehicle that could not find any other way to end the Islamists&#8217; sit-in staged inside the garden other than crashing into historic gate, according to eyewitnesses.

On the ground facing the administration office, several workers of Agriculture Ministry&#8217;s maintenance sector were collecting parts of the smashed gate.

It wasn&#8217;t only the iron gate that was ruined due to the dispersal of the sit-in inside the garden. In a statement, the ministry preliminarily estimated losses of LE100 million at the rare plant garden.

_Edited translation from Al-Masry Al-Youm_

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## MooshMoosh

> "Protests have taken place in six governorates across the country [but] there has not been any significant violence in Cairo," the Al Jazeera correspondent said. In Tanta city in the Nile Delta, security forces intervened with tear gas after clashes broke out between anti-coup protesters and local residents, they added.






ELTurco said:


> Bro can you tell us about future of Turkey.
> I would like to hear from you that would be interesting if there is any info about Turkey.


This Dragon user is a joke. The words he says is not not authentic and weak. There "was" hadith about Turkey in the past before Ottoman and there "is" about Turkey and Rum (Rome) referred to Europe in the end times.

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## bdslph

the Military is try to make it again like Mubarak only difference it might be SISI


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## Falcon29

Egypt forces kill 11 militants in Sinai crackdown | Maan News Agency


EL-ARISH, Egypt (Ma'an) -- Egyptian forces killed 11 suspected militants on Sunday during a crackdown against armed groups in the Sinai peninsula, Egyptian security officials said.

Ten militants were detained during the operation, the largest mobilization of Egyptian forces since the 1973 war with Israel.

Egyptian forces also seized large amounts of explosives and damaged several Bedouin homes believed to be hosting militant elements.

........

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## Falcon29

Egypt militants kill 4 in new Sinai attacks | Maan News Agency


CAIRO (AFP) -- A series of attacks in Egypt's restive Sinai peninsula over the past 24 hours, mostly against soldiers, killed at least four people, security officials said on Tuesday.

The violence comes as the Egyptian military presses its campaign in Sinai to quell an insurgency that surged after the army overthrew Islamist president Mohamed Morsi on July 3.

Two people were killed and 10 others, including one soldier, were wounded when clashes erupted between troops and supporters of Morsi in the town of Bir al-Abed.

In a separate incident, one soldier was killed and two wounded when a rocket-propelled grenade struck an army checkpoint on the road to the airport next to the regional capital of El-Arish.

Unknown gunmen near the Suez canal killed another soldier, and three others were wounded in separate attacks in the region, security officials and medics said.

......

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## MooshMoosh

Hazzy997 said:


> Egypt forces kill 11 militants in Sinai crackdown | Maan News Agency
> 
> 
> EL-ARISH, Egypt (Ma'an) -- Egyptian forces killed 11 suspected militants on Sunday during a crackdown against armed groups in the Sinai peninsula, Egyptian security officials said.
> 
> Ten militants were detained during the operation, the largest mobilization of Egyptian forces since the 1973 war with Israel.
> 
> Egyptian forces also seized large amounts of explosives and damaged several Bedouin homes believed to be hosting militant elements.
> 
> ........


I was gonna ask you about your avator before but you changed it, you freaked me out. We're not idol/grave or pagan worshippers


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## Solomon2

Written by : Abdul Sattar Hatita
on : Tuesday, 10 Sep, 2013

In Conversation with Egypts Communications Minister

_Egypt's telecommunications sector will grow at a rate of between 5.8% and 10% this year, says minister Atef Helmy





File photo of Egyptian Minister of Communications and Information Technology Atef Helmy. (Asharq Al-Awsat)​​_​
Cairo, Asharq Al-AwsatIn the first visit by an Egyptian official to Saudi Arabia since the ouster of Islamist President Mohamed Mursi on July 3, 2013, Minister of Communications and Information Technology Atef Helmy visited Saudi Arabia earlier this week in the context of improving relations and cooperation between the two countries.

In an exclusive interview with Asharq Al-Awsat in Cairo before the historic visit, Helmy stated that he intended to secure greater collaboration between Cairo and Riyadh, beginning with cooperation on a government level.

Atef Helmywho has worked in the technology world for decadestook up his ministerial portfolio under former President Mohamed Mursi. Helmy began work as Egypts Minister of Communications and Information Technology on January 6, 2013. He tendered his resignation on July 1, 2013, for the sake of the nation before returning to work for the current military-backed transitional government led by Dr. Hazem El-Beblawi.

The following interview has been edited for length.

*Asharq Al-Awsat: Why did you resign from the Mursi-backed Qandil government? Then, following Mursis ouster, why did you return to your ministerial position under a military-backed Beblawi government?*

Atef Helmy: Firstly, let me say that I have yet to address this issue with anyone in the media. [I returned] because I believe that every phase has its own requirements. Therefore, at the end of the most recent phase after I had performed my duty, I arrived at certain conclusions that continuing [in government] would not be in my best interest. This is a brief summary, but I accepted the position as Minister of Communication and Information Technology, and then resigned for the sake of the country. I believe that this response conveys a lot.

*Q: What do you say to those who view Mursis ouster as a military coup?*

*I emphasize that what happened was by all measurements a revolution, because coups are led by the military. What actually happened was that on June 30 millions of Egyptians took to the streets simultaneously in all of Egypts governorates. It is not possible to interpret this, in any way, as a coup.* Before June 30, 2013, there was communication between the military and the Mursi government regarding actions necessary to meet the will of the people. Therefore I do not believe that there was a coup orchestrating the whole uprising. I also believe that if the people had not taken to the streets on June 30, there would not have been any change at all, and there would have been any chancenot even one in a millionof the military taking any action.

*Q: You are the first Egyptian minister to visit Saudi Arabic since June 30, does your visit only concern cooperation with Saudi Arabia in the communications sector, or does the trip represent the Egyptian governments intention to address other aspects of bilateral cooperation?*

I want to say that sometimes destiny brings various factors together which heave meaningful results. In this case, this ultimately resulted in an Egyptian Minister of Communications and Information Technology visiting Saudi Arabia after a historical situation led Riyadh to stand beside the Egyptian people. Therefore, this places a lot of importance on the timing of the visit. Technology has become a language of convergence between the people of the world, in addition to a means of communication between two brotherly peoples.

*Q: What will be the message from the Saudi side?*

To be clear, the primary message of this trip is a message of respect, appreciation, and love from Egypts government and people to our brothers in Saudi Arabia, and one of honor and appreciation for the historic position taken by the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques. The secondary message focuses on framing cooperation between the two ministries of communication and information technology in, including with regard to the public interest, as well as the interpretation of some of the topics that were discussed in the Conference of Arab Ministers this past March. There is a mutual desire between Saudi Minister of Communications and Information Technology, Mohamed Mulla, and myself, for greater cooperation on a government level, in addition to cooperation between other institutions.

*Q: Regarding the communications sector in Egypt, how has it weathered the often tense political situation in the country over the past two years and more?*

In spite of everything that has happened, Egypts communications sector is functioning and progressing normally with the sector demonstrating promising prospects for the future. The system is managed efficiently and professionally, with a clear strategy and methodology. It operates as a market in terms of identifying programs, and uses performance indicators and quality measures in its operation. I think that all of these mechanics are crucial to the success of any institution. The communications sector also distinguishes itself through harmonious cooperation among all its business partners, which leads to a coherent strategy reflective of the hopes and aspirations of all [its customers and service providers]. This cooperation can be translated to programs, projects, and their implementation.

Therefore this sector, despite the challenges that Egypt now faces, continues to grow at a higher rate than that of other sectors. Hopefully the communications and information technology sector will grow at a rate of 5.8-10% this year. This sector also contributes to Egypts GDP, improving its growth from 3.2% last year to 4.1% this year. We are also committed to creating up to 50,000 direct job opportunities in 2013-2014.

*Q: Egyptians are currently awaiting better access to high speed internet, how do you think this will help Egypts telecommunications sector?
*
There are two important very important discussions currently taking place. This centers on the creation of a digital society, which basically means putting in place a framework through which different sectors in the nation can interact harmoniously, and resettlement and optimization of information technology. In order to achieve this, there must be a basic structure of high speed internet across the country. Studies show that every 10% increase in internet speed has a between 1.3% and 1.5% improvement on GNP. This would also mean new job opportunities and increased investment.

*Q: There is talk about your ministry granting a new license for a fourth mobile phone carrier in Egypt, is this license a new way to create jobs and investment*?

There is no fourth license. Today we have four (telecommunication) operators in the Egyptian market, they are: Telecom Egypt in the area of fixed telephone line services (land lines), and the three other companies in the mobile phone area. We just introduced a principle standard license which allows Telecom Egypt to enter mobile services, and the other companies to use land line services. Therefore this is not a new license, but it is a consolidation of some of the services available to all companies in order to allow them to perform services that reflect the needs of Egyptian citizens.

*Q: In terms of investment in the telecommunications sector, what opportunities are there in this area for Egyptian, Arab, and foreign investors?*

I think that the Egyptian market is very promising, both for Arab and international investors. Today Egypt has achieved a number of goals in exporting information technology services, and its becoming one of the leading countries in this area internationally. We are approximately one of the top five nations in terms of exporting information technology services, and over the past two years we have improved our basic communications infrastructure through the establishment of a Technology Village in Maadi, southern Cairo. As a result of our spending so much money on developing our human capabilities, in addition to other factors, Egypt is now extremely competitive in this sector. Therefore the Egyptian technology services market is very attractive, evidenced by fact that global companies are not withdrawing from the market in spite of the ongoing situation in the country.

As for local companies, I dont doubt that they have even greater opportunities than companies with foreign investors and I see a huge opportunity for investment in this sector. The other stage involves the communications market in particular, so we have begun introducing new services. We have announced another two services, namely automated tracking and fund transfers through mobile phones. All of these issues open large areas for investors both in pre-existing companies and new companies seeking to enter the Egyptian market.

*Q: There is also interest in a digital technology project focusing on the Suez Canal. What can you tell us about this?
*
The plan that we are working on is a medium to long-term plan that has three main goals. The first goal is to achieve a digital community in different parts of the country and make it easily accessible to Egyptian citizens by using a national identification number. The second goal is developing the sector, providing work opportunities for young Egyptians and attracting investors. The third goal is investing in different geographical regions of Egypt and laying 18 nautical telecommunication cables into the country from the Mediterranean and Red Seas. This would see Egypt becoming the country with the second-highest number of nautical telecommunication cables in the world.

Investment in these geographical regions and the laying of new cables will create a digital corridor through the Suez Canal. Attracting international investors and modern technologies like cloud computing will provide Egypt with other additional connections between its north, south, east, and west. Cloud computing will also give Egypt a competitive position globally, ensuring the creation of what we call the Digital Suez Canal.

*Q: Social network websites played a role in the Arab Spring, but some people are now noting that during this period of change, they are fomenting competition between different political, religious, and ideological views. How is it possible for the telecommunications sector to improve these differences?*

Lets separate the internet issue into two parts; first: the basics. It is a nations responsibility to ensure that affordable high speed internet is available to citizens. The second part is the issue of content, and this is a sensitive issue. We say that everything has its uses whether practical or harmful, and therefore it is not right for someone to interfere regarding internet content, except in some instances relating to issues far outside the realm of telecommunications and information technology. The ministry is not interfering in any way with content, instead we are focusing on very important positive aspects, such as educating our youth and teaching them how best to use the the internet.

*Q: You are at the head of Egypts largest institution specializing in telecommunications and information technology, what words would you like to see to the Egyptian and Arab people currently using the internet?*

I would say to them, you are our hope for the future. The Egyptian revolution was carried out by people using technology, and therefore I advise you to focus on developing your abilities. I would also invite the youth to believe in the values of working together and working respectfully. All of these will ensure success.

*Q: Regarding the four channels that are currently blocked and their headquarters closedone of them being Al-Jazeera Mubasher Misrcan you confirm that this is because they are not in possession of official licenses?*

Yes, as we said in our addressthey do not possess the special licenses required for live broadcast; it is the right of the state to have laws that are respected and abided by. On top of all this, commitment to laws includes protecting everybodys rights, whether they are service providers or citizens who use the service.

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## islamrules

unarmed man's head blown up by one kaffir policeman


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## MooshMoosh



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## MooshMoosh




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## Falcon29

MooshMoosh said:


> I was gonna ask you about your avator before but you changed it, you freaked me out. We're not idol/grave or pagan worshippers



LOL, no don't worry. I know who we live with and how we live. We're on the same side.

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## Ceylal

Hazzy997 said:


> LOL, no don't worry. I know who we live with and how we live. *We're on the same side*.



They were rumors that Morsi was going to sell a part of the Sinai to the US, to relocate all the Palestinian there...Is that the reason behind your MB's support?


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## Falcon29

Ceylal said:


> They were rumors that Morsi was going to sell a part of the Sinai to the US, to relocate all the Palestinian there...Is that the reason behind your MB's support?



That's not true at all I'm not sure where you heard that rumor. And the US doesn't genuinely view the MB as a possible partner or sincerely cooperate with it. If anything they cooperate with the military brass.


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## Falcon29

Sinai blasts: 6 Egyptian soldiers killed - CNN.com

(CNN) -- Six Egyptian soldiers were killed after explosions near a military intelligence building in the Sinai peninsula town of Rafah on Wednesday, state news agency Egynews reported.

.............

Report: Israeli envoy in Cairo to discuss Sinai situation - Israel News, Ynetnews


Germany's DPA news agency is reporting that an Israeli envoy is in Cairo for a brief visit during which he will meet Egyptian defense officials to discuss developments in the Sinai Peninsula. According to the report, the envoy arrived in Cairo on a private jet together with two aides. (Roi Kais)

.........

Why are you meeting with Israelis, Sisi? Already a collaborator along with your fellow military command. It's sickening. As if they are coming to command you to kill your own people. And that's what you call and anti American regime, right? Remember when you people used to say Morsi was America and Israel's top friend. You guys are a joke. From day one we knew who the slaves of Israel were.

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## Ceylal

Hazzy997 said:


> That's not true at all I'm not sure where you heard that *rumor*. And *the US doesn't genuinely** view the MB as a possible partne*r or sincerely cooperate with it. If anything they cooperate with the military brass.


The rumor made the news during Morsi's early day removal.
For the 2nd point, I beg to differ...A democrat White house was always pro Muslim run state As well as the French Socialist Party. It the Republican who are pro military. Clinton and Mitterand did everything they could with the help of same arab states that are clamoring for military intervention in Syria, to install a theocracy government in Algiers in the 90's.
The reason Obama fail to impose The MB's is that the Egyptian military Establishment control 40% of the country economy and where supported by the majority of the population, who had enough of Morsi's empty hand promisses.


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## Ceylal

Hazzy997 said:


> .........
> 
> Why are you *meeting* with Israelis,* Sisi*? Already a collaborator along with your fellow military command. It's sickening.



Why is that odd? Palestinian official meets with them too...How come it is ok for you to meet them and it isn't for them? They have a full diplomatic relations, meeting of this kind is normal...



> As if they are coming to command you to kill your own people. And that's what you call and anti American regime, right? Remember when* you *people used to say Morsi was *America and Israel's top friend*. You guys are a joke. From day one we knew who the slaves of Israel were.


 Friend, you are talking with a fork tongue....Do you want us to post Morsi's letter he wrote to the Israeli president? Sissi was no more Israel's friend than Morsi was...Same thing can be said about Mahmoud Abbas.... I know you thing Hamas is the lightening rod of armed palestinian opposition, but to most of us, Hamas is an Israeli creation to brake the PLO. The real opposition to Israel is really the everyday Palestinian.. Hamas as well as the PLO have brought some much harm and destroyed any dream of a Palestinian State.

Y


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## Falcon29

Ceylal said:


> The rumor made the news during Morsi's early day removal.
> For the 2nd point, I beg to differ...A democrat White house was always pro Muslim run state As well as the French Socialist Party. It the Republican who are pro military. Clinton and Mitterand did everything they could with the help of same arab states that are clamoring for military intervention in Syria, to install a theocracy government in Algiers in the 90's.
> The reason Obama fail to impose The MB's is that the Egyptian military Establishment control 40% of the country economy and where supported by the majority of the population, who had enough of Morsi's empty hand promisses.



Like I said, the congress went on with it so they can allow them to enter power then bring them back 50 years. I'm sure this was planned from the start. 

Then the US gives a few empty condemnations of the arrests without trial as if they had nothing to do with it. 

There's no such thing as any Western country allowing the MB to take charge and give it rule for the next decade for example. Had that happened you would have seen a big difference in Egypt's society and military. 

Israel was complaining from the start. Morsi refused to meet them face to face and he stood with Gaza during the Israeli offensive. He also would have built up the military.

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## Falcon29

Ceylal said:


> Why is that odd? Palestinian official meets with them too...How come it is ok for you to meet them and it isn't for them? They have a full diplomatic relations, meeting of this kind is normal...
> 
> 
> Friend, you are talking with a fork tongue....Do you want us to post Morsi's letter he wrote to the Israeli president? Sissi was no more Israel's friend than Morsi was...Same thing can be said about Mahmoud Abbas.... I know you thing Hamas is the lightening rod of armed palestinian opposition, but to most of us, Hamas is an Israeli creation to brake the PLO. The real opposition to Israel is really the everyday Palestinian.. Hamas as well as the PLO have brought some much harm and destroyed any dream of a Palestinian State.
> 
> Y



You're algerian and you're saying this about Hamas? LOL. Algeria is a wonderful country and they are very very welcoming to Palestinians and supportive of us. Same with Tunisia. And I agree with you that the average Palestinian is the real opposition. That being said, Hamas members are everyday palestinians during the day. And that accusation is not true. Hamas was a social group created by a Palestinian. It wasn't created to break the PLO, that wouldn't make sense in the 1980's. had it been during the 60's or earlier for example it would. Israel only allowed the social group to operate. Then immediately started arresting its members.

Sisi isn't so much of a friend, but he's a lot more cooperative and lets them have their way over his land and political moves against Gaza. Morsi never wrote a 'love letter' as some of you make it seem to Peres. He expressed interest in a geniune peace plan with the Palestinians and urged for action toward a two state solution. And some even denied it ever happened. But, that's a weak argument. We see how Sisi is conspiring against Gaza and how the Egyptian military is working. I remember when Morsi first was elected the military refused to even do it's job in some areas and left the areas lawless. The MB isn't entirely responsible for what occurred.


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## Ceylal

Hazzy997 said:


> You're algerian and you're saying this about Hamas? LOL. Algeria is a wonderful country and they are very very welcoming to Palestinians and supportive of us.


You confuse our undying support for the Palestinian cause and the Palestinian in their globality , with a support of Hamas. Algerians in their majority regard Hamas as a nuisance for the Palestinian cause. Hamas call to mudy Bouteflika's reputation and to physically threaten him after the hand shake with Barak during Hassan II funerals left a bad test in Algeria. This MAN did a lot for your cause, he is the one and the only one who brought the Palestinian cause the forefront of the world new order. He is the one who open the UN door to Arafat, yet the later avoided Algeria like avoiding the black plague during the nineties..Despite all that we are still carrying your cause like nothing ever happened.

There are two countries that supports regardless if you are the aggressor or the agressee, Algeria and Syria...And most of the one raising funds, at least in the Us, for the destruction of Syria..are Palestinians...That is a shame.


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## Falcon29

Ceylal said:


> You confuse our undying support for the Palestinian cause and the Palestinian in their globality , with a support of Hamas. Algerians in their majority regard Hamas as a nuisance for the Palestinian cause. Hamas call to mudy Bouteflika's reputation and to physically threaten him after the hand shake with Barak during Hassan II funerals left a bad test in Algeria. This MAN did a lot for your cause, he is the one and the only one who brought the Palestinian cause the forefront of the world new order. He is the one who open the UN door to Arafat, yet the later avoided Algeria like avoiding the black plague during the nineties..Despite all that we are still carrying your cause like nothing ever happened.
> 
> There are two countries that supports regardless if you are the aggressor or the agressee, Algeria and Syria...And most of the one raising funds, at least in the Us, for the destruction of Syria..are Palestinians...That is a shame.



I can't understand what you're saying...and for funds do you mean fundraisers in the US for Syrian refugees? I know Palestinians support them with money but we have Syrian communities here who have raised awareness of these funds and do the fundraisers themselves. 

Funding isn't going to destroy Syria. That's odd that you'd make a statement like that.


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## Falcon29

http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Egypt-state-TV-Hamas-is-training-Egyptian-Islamists-326008

CAIRO - The Hamas Islamist group ruling Gaza has been teaching Egyptian Islamists how to plant bombs in cars, Egyptian state television said on Thursday.

Hamas also gave 400 landmines to Egyptian militant groups, said the television. Hamas is an offshoot of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood. The Brotherhood's Mohamed Morsi was overthrown as Egyptian president by the military in July following mass protests.

........

All according to Egyptian STATE(propaganda) TV. These government leaders think they could fool their population and are preparing to annex Gaza it seems the way things are going. Anybody can learn how to make a car bomb even off the Internet. It's pretty sick that Egypt is going this far. What do they have in plan. 

Palestinians: 2 Egyptian tanks crossed border of Gaza Strip - Israel News, Ynetnews

Palestinian news agency Maan reported that two Egyptian tanks crossed the Egyptian border with the Gaza Strip for the first time on Thursday night, but did not reach the Palestinian border.

Witnesses said that the two tanks were moving along the road in front of the concrete wall Egyptian authorities had erected on the border with the Gaza Strip several years ago. They said that masked Egyptian soldiers drove the two tanks without entering Palestinian territory. According to the report, they were accompanied by a civilian vehicle. (Roi Kais)

..........

Wow, are they committing aggression. Unbeliavable.
@al-Hasani @Yzd Khalifa @BLACKEAGLE @MooshMoosh

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## Yzd Khalifa

I'm not ready to believe JP far-right nuts yet. 

 



Hazzy997 said:


> http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Egypt-state-TV-Hamas-is-training-Egyptian-Islamists-326008
> 
> CAIRO - The Hamas Islamist group ruling Gaza has been teaching Egyptian Islamists how to plant bombs in cars, Egyptian state television said on Thursday.
> 
> Hamas also gave 400 landmines to Egyptian militant groups, said the television. Hamas is an offshoot of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood. The Brotherhood's Mohamed Morsi was overthrown as Egyptian president by the military in July following mass protests.
> 
> ........
> 
> All according to Egyptian STATE(propaganda) TV. These government leaders think they could fool their population and are preparing to annex Gaza it seems the way things are going. Anybody can learn how to make a car bomb even off the Internet. It's pretty sick that Egypt is going this far. What do they have in plan.
> 
> Palestinians: 2 Egyptian tanks crossed border of Gaza Strip - Israel News, Ynetnews
> 
> Palestinian news agency Maan reported that two Egyptian tanks crossed the Egyptian border with the Gaza Strip for the first time on Thursday night, but did not reach the Palestinian border.
> 
> Witnesses said that the two tanks were moving along the road in front of the concrete wall Egyptian authorities had erected on the border with the Gaza Strip several years ago. They said that masked Egyptian soldiers drove the two tanks without entering Palestinian territory. According to the report, they were accompanied by a civilian vehicle. (Roi Kais)
> 
> ..........
> 
> Wow, are they committing aggression. Unbeliavable.
> @al-Hasani @Yzd Khalifa @BLACKEAGLE @MooshMoosh

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## hussain0216

Hazzy997 said:


> http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Egypt-state-TV-Hamas-is-training-Egyptian-Islamists-326008
> 
> CAIRO - The Hamas Islamist group ruling Gaza has been teaching Egyptian Islamists how to plant bombs in cars, Egyptian state television said on Thursday.
> 
> Hamas also gave 400 landmines to Egyptian militant groups, said the television. Hamas is an offshoot of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood. The Brotherhood's Mohamed Morsi was overthrown as Egyptian president by the military in July following mass protests.
> 
> ........
> 
> All according to Egyptian STATE(propaganda) TV. These government leaders think they could fool their population and are preparing to annex Gaza it seems the way things are going. Anybody can learn how to make a car bomb even off the Internet. It's pretty sick that Egypt is going this far. What do they have in plan.
> 
> Palestinians: 2 Egyptian tanks crossed border of Gaza Strip - Israel News, Ynetnews
> 
> Palestinian news agency Maan reported that two Egyptian tanks crossed the Egyptian border with the Gaza Strip for the first time on Thursday night, but did not reach the Palestinian border.
> 
> Witnesses said that the two tanks were moving along the road in front of the concrete wall Egyptian authorities had erected on the border with the Gaza Strip several years ago. They said that masked Egyptian soldiers drove the two tanks without entering Palestinian territory. According to the report, they were accompanied by a civilian vehicle. (Roi Kais)
> 
> ..........
> 
> Wow, are they committing aggression. Unbeliavable.
> @al-Hasani @Yzd Khalifa @BLACKEAGLE @MooshMoosh



The Egyptians are real haramiis the liberals and military are as dangerous for the Muslims of Palestine as the Jews are

The Egyptian fake regime will need to be overthrown and the military completely cleansed like the turks are doing for them to protect Palestine from the Jews

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## sahaliyan

I heared this also called Sisi in Arabic?

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## MooshMoosh

Why did the butcher Sissi declared state of emergency for the next two months and fears the Sinai clash would spill into the city where they may use tactics to lure supporters in their side? Come at me El Sissi and the hypocrites


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## MooshMoosh




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## hussain0216

Sisi the kaffir wants to do the bidding of his thieving jew allies in Gaza


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## Ceylal

Hazzy997 said:


> Like I said, the congress went on with it so they can allow them to enter power then bring them back 50 years. I'm sure this was planned from the start.
> 
> Then the US gives a few empty condemnations of the arrests without trial as if they had nothing to do with it.
> 
> There's no such thing as any Western country allowing the MB to take charge and give it rule for the next decade for example. Had that happened you would have seen a big difference in Egypt's society and military.
> 
> Israel was complaining from the start. Morsi refused to meet them face to face and he stood with Gaza during the Israeli offensive. He also would have built up the military.



Sorry to disagree with you...

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## MooshMoosh




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## Ceylal

Hazzy997 said:


> I can't understand what you're saying...and for funds do you mean fundraisers in the US for Syrian refugees? I know Palestinians support them with money but we have Syrian communities here who have raised awareness of these funds and do the fundraisers themselves.
> 
> Funding isn't going to destroy Syria. That's odd that you'd make a statement like that.



can't be any clearer.
You are slapping the hand that protected, defended and fed you to detriment...Syrian refused a comprehensive settlement with Israel, so you can regain your land that you lost to Israel...They could have chosen Egypt or Jordanian way and regained the Golan hights. They stood by their principle and you didn't.


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## Zarvan

Thousands of people protesting against military rule have taken to the streets across Egypt in rallies dubbed "Loyalty to the Martyrs' Blood", calling for deposed President Mohamed Morsi to be reinstated.

The rallies come nearly a month after the August 14 crackdown by security forces on two pro-Morsi protest camps in Cairo that led to clashes in which hundreds of people were killed.

"Either we recover their rights, or we die like them," protesters chanted of those who lost their lives in the crackdown, as they marched on Friday towards Rabaa al-Adawiya Square, the site of one of those camps.

Al Jazeera&#8217;s correspondent in Cairo, who we are not naming for security reasons, said there had been some scuffles in the Mediterranean city of Alexandria, with tear gas being used.

"We&#8217;ve been told that security forces stepped in to separate fighting that had broken out between rival factions, the Anti-Coup Alliance on one side and locals who are opposed to it on the other," our correspondent said.

"There are also reports of flashpoints in Mahala, Damietta, Sharqiya, with fighting between these two groups, but security haven&#8217;t yet intervened in any of those."

Society divided

For weeks, demonstrators have been marching in cities around the country.


Spotlight
Follow our ongoing coverage of the political crisis in Egypt
In Cairo, a local resident of Nasr City told Al Jazeera that people want the rallies to end, as they are disrupting lives of the locals and limiting their movements.

&#8220;Every Friday, things are stopped. People and shops are afraid, shops are closed," he said. 

"They are afraid they might be attacked and if I have an errand far away, I can&#8217;t really go anywhere."

But some protesters insisted they had managed to garner local support.

"After what people have seen in Rabaa, the killing and the burning. I don&#8217;t believe they are upset," a demonstrator told Al Jazeera.

Morsi detention extended

Meanwhile, prosecutors extended the detention of Morsi for 30 days. The former president faces several criminal charges, including murder.

Al Jazeera&#8217;s correspondent said the government appeared to think it has wide support, with Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood on the back-foot and the protests losing speed.

&#8220;If they were to bring Morsi to a swift trial now or soon, it might bring more protesters out onto the streets... So I think they&#8217;re quite happy with the situation as it is at the moment&#8221;, he said.

Morsi was ousted by the army after a wave of popular protests. Egypt's military-installed new authorities have since arrested more than 2,000 of his supporters.

On Thursday, the interim authorities extended a state of emergency in force since the mid-August bloodshed by another two months because of Egypt's continued security problems.
Anti-military protests continue in Egypt - Middle East - Al Jazeera English



Ceylal said:


> can't be any clearer.
> You are slapping the hand that protected, defended and fed you to detriment...Syrian refused a comprehensive settlement with Israel, so you can regain your land that you lost to Israel...They could have chosen Egypt or Jordanian way and regained the Golan hights. They stood by their principle and you didn't.



Yes because they were no threat to Israel because all their forces have always used to kill their own people they are good for nothing when ever Israel wanted he attacked them and Bashar did nothing he can only kill his own people

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## Falcon29

Ceylal said:


> can't be any clearer.
> You are slapping the hand that protected, defended and fed you to detriment...Syrian refused a comprehensive settlement with Israel, so you can regain your land that you lost to Israel...They could have chosen Egypt or Jordanian way and regained the Golan hights. They stood by their principle and you didn't.



The principle became impossible after the civil war occurred in the country and after the events in Egypt. Their government doesn't work in a way where it would use its military resources towards regaining land. And it isn't actually geniune if you beilieved so. Regaining land in Islam isn't from the western perspective. The land is a holy land and the path of God is and has always been our way of conquering land and liberating our land. The path of God does not include dedicating your mujahideen to a dictators interests like Hezbollah did. They can cut support, we don't stand by things like that. Even it means they have to produce their own weapons now. Then so be it. God loves those who are steadfast and patient.


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## Frogman

> Why did the butcher Sissi declared state of emergency for the next two months and fears the Sinai clash would spill into the city where they may use tactics to lure supporters in their side? Come at me El Sissi and the hypocrites



Firstly, you need a psychiatrist. Secondly, you need to change your country flag to something more suitable. Finally, your campaigns (media or otherwise) have lost steam and every protest you stage is small and insignificant (you barely make news anywhere) and an attempt to show that you're still around.

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## Solomon2

MooshMoosh said:


>



These are small demonstrations, especially for Egypt. Note that the camera angles are mostly close to the ground and the angle is always such that the people pictured fill the frame. Do a count. Demonstators pictured number in the hundreds to low thousands. If they could mobilize more they surely would have climbed a low wall or taken the photo from the higher windows of the surrounding high rises. 

I will add, however, that I expect the military, pushed by the wealthy landed classes, is trying to take the political space away from democracy and back towards dictatorship. It's important for democratic political leaders not to yield any sort of power or concession to the military that could later be used to destroy democracy. 

There should also be some just way conceived to deal with soldiers who have committed crimes under orders or duress but now feel they have no choice but to submit to their superiors rather than the people. Successful evil tyrannies from the Mafia to the Soviets always try to make sure their enforcers committed such horrible crimes that they cannot face the people; for the rest of their subjects, they try to create guilt by making life so difficult that crimes of some sort simply have to be committed in order to survive.

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## Yzd Khalifa

&#x202b;

Kirdasah raid.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

the end of the brotherhood in Egypt
like i said from the start no one can stand in the way. Egypt united people army police even with all their allies around the world we win

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## Sun Piwa

MooshMoosh said:


>



Typicall salafist fake muslim propaganda who make itself look taller than what it is really, like the JEWS know perfectly how to do.

You make a picture in a crowded street not like the real demonstrations against Morsi where there are people filling the streets of all the city.

If we see your demonstrations from a helicopter we'll see that you're very few

This is reality

Tribute to the egyptian people and their fight for freedom 05/07/2013 - YouTube


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## Yzd Khalifa

MB male protesters using women and children as human shileds 
&#x202b;

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## Tacticool

Yzd Khalifa said:


> MB male protesters using women and children as human shileds



@YZD why saudis don't like MB?

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## Informant

Abdul_Haseeb said:


> @YZD why saudis don't like MB?



MB has nothing to do with Islam just like Mullah Diesel has nothing to do with Islam. Just because something has an Islamic wrapper doesnt make it untouchable or unquestionable. Especially in politics i'd rather be associated with something of an irreligious line than a religious one. My choice may be prone or susceptible to corruption. But an Islamic/religious party? How can you tarnish something so sacred ( religion / Islam ) with something so vile (politics)?

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## Tacticool

Informant said:


> MB has nothing to do with Islam just like Mullah Diesel has nothing to do with Islam. Just because something has an Islamic wrapper doesnt make it untouchable or unquestionable. Especially in politics i'd rather be associated with something of an irreligious line than a religious one. My choice may be prone or susceptible to corruption. But an Islamic/religious party? How can you tarnish something so sacred ( religion / Islam ) with something so vile (politics)?



Agreed should not enter into that democracy obsession.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Abdul_Haseeb said:


> @YZD why saudis don't like MB?



We don't have any issue with for who they are. But KSA won't allow some entity to meddle in her best friends' country to plot overthrowing their Gov'ts. We also are doing the same with Al-Qaida - wether their attacks or plotted attacks took place here or there or weren't.



Informant said:


> MB has nothing to do with Islam just like Mullah Diesel has nothing to do with Islam. Just because something has an Islamic wrapper doesnt make it untouchable or unquestionable. Especially in politics i'd rather be associated with something of an irreligious line than a religious one. My choice may be prone or susceptible to corruption. But an Islamic/religious party? How can you tarnish something so sacred ( religion / Islam ) with something so vile (politics)?



The manipulation of faith is no good for political purposes.

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## Informant

Abdul_Haseeb said:


> Agreed should not enter into that democracy obsession.



Nothing wrong with a true sense of democracy. Look at the Scandinavian countries, they are what is everything right on this planet. The happiest people, the most peaceful people, most well off financially, and no violence. Infact their crime rate is so low that they have to close their prisons! 

But then again Muslims arent worth democracy, sir pe dhanda chahiye hamien. Sissi was right in the step to remove MB from Egyptian Govt, not because they are Islamic in nature ( not really, what islamic govt will pass a ruling of lowering girls age for marriage from 18 to 14 years?) but Egypt started experiencing sectarian violence surge and the support of local Sinai terrorists who attacked and stole an Egyptian IFV but were blown out of this world by an Israeli missile. That was a precursor of what was to happen. How the govt handled protests is up for debate and tbh i believe both are wrong. 


OT:

Pakistan has suffered it for almost 10 years. Do you really think Musharraf policy of US appeasement was his favorite choice which resulted in homegrown terror outfits popping up and causing havoc. Do you think that the worlds super duper power would spare us in its misguided path of revenge? Now Mushi's policies were the only option we had and yet we still have no issues with Afghan Talibs and they welcome our covert support. Then who are the TTP? When all they did was senseless bombings of civilians. What school of thought would allow such carnage designed to cripple a country? 

Another claim is Mushi policies started these issues. Really do you really think illiterate people with no real cognitve critical thinking abilities will understand real complex ayahs as ours? His policies acted as a catalyst Have you seen the captured TTPs? I have, and mind you most of them kill each other for just looking each other the wrong way. They cannot spread ruthless, brutal, insincere, illogical and incorrect Islam, this is the Indian sub continent. People have always been inclined towards mysticism, so religion over here has to be soft and appeasing rather than bomb the F up of people.

We have turned intolerant, look at how we burned the christian community houses in Lahore for nothing, or the BS charges the maulvi accused a 14 year old minor Christian girl. How we treat Ahmedis no matter how wrong one thinks of their religious deviation is, Allah is there to judge. We have become so intolerant that we attack people of different sects just because kisi pagrdi hari ya jhanda kala. 

When Indians smirk and wink at us, it's because they can see us self destruct and laugh at our ignorance. We blame everyone, i mean Mossad to RAW to CIA but ourselves. When it is a Pakistani that blows a suicide vest or a Pakistani that plants a bomb, it is a Pakistani that kills little children on 14th august parades just because they celebrate the idea of Pakistan. RAW, CIA, Shaikh chilly anyone and everyone maybe out to get us but remember a bomb is blown by saying takbeer and so is a suicide attack. I have personally seen confiscated footages of bomb attacks and believe me they are riddled with takbeers and cheering civilian death and destruction.

We are a nation that is easy to buy off and the only thing about Indians better than us is their patriotism. We need to understand agar mulk nahin bachega to konsi ummat ke bhai aapki jaan bachane ayenge? No one will help us not even China so we should start thinking and they should'nt help us, nobody should help us.


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## Ceylal

Yzd Khalifa said:


> We don't have any issue with for who they are. But* KSA won't allow some entity to meddle* in her best friends' country to plot overthrowing their Gov'ts. We also are doing the same with Al-Qaida - wether their attacks or plotted attacks took place here or there or weren't.



You are not being genuine, Pal...I Think KSA care less about Egypt or any other Arab country. It is just a p-issing contest between KSA and Qatar on who can p-iss the furthest...It just happens, that Egypt was the tree.


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## al-Hasani

Informant said:


> Nothing wrong with a true sense of democracy. Look at the Scandinavian countries, they are what is everything right on this planet. The happiest people, the most peaceful people, most well off financially, and no violence. Infact their crime rate is so low that they have to close their.



Scandinavia is a great place to live in many aspects. I live there so I should know. But not everything is great. Pakistan nor any other Muslim country or place in the world for that matter is and will not become a Scandinavia. Many Muslims in this time and age have not found their position in this world. Aim to succeed at the small things first. The Muslim world and Muslims in general have an immense potential. Africa and other places too. But people don't seem to learn from their mistakes.

You cannot move forward if you are unable to learn from your mistakes.

I see many Muslims countries moving forward but some are moving backwards and repeat the same mistakes again and again.

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## Yzd Khalifa

Ceylal said:


> You are not being genuine, Pal...I Think KSA care less about Egypt or any other Arab country. It is just a p-issing contest between KSA and Qatar on who can p-iss the furthest...It just happens, that Egypt was the tree.



No, the MB interfered in the UAE's and Jordan's affair, something that pissed the Saudi Elites off. They chose not to back with which is a good decision they took. 

Anyway, The new Qatari Gov't is taking another approach.

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## al-Hasani

Ceylal said:


> You are not being genuine, Pal...I Think KSA care less about Egypt or any other Arab country. It is just a p-issing contest between KSA and Qatar on who can p-iss the furthest...It just happens, that Egypt was the tree.



Ceylal, of course every country takes its own interests into account as well. If not first of all. Algeria is no different. When the elites conduct policy or the political/ruling leaders, the same pattern can be observed since antiquity and it has changed very little, they rarely thought about helping fellow Semites, Arabs etc. (feel free to use your own examples) but rather their own noses. Hence even the rivalries found among family members in ruling families. The Ottomans are a good example of that.

What I am trying to say is that the KSA government and that of Egypt found a common menace that they could unite on in combating. The thing that they are both neighbors, fellow Muslim, Arab/Semitic nations with long-time good relations mattered less here. It probably played a role without a doubt. Likewise I don't expect anyone - no matter how close they are to KSA to help us out just due to only religious, ethnic, historical etc. reasons. You yourself as an Algerian can use the example of Algerian and Moroccan hostilities and political differences despite a closeness bigger than that between Algeria and Mongolia for example.

You can find many examples of country x and y being close on aspects such as people, origin, fellow history, religion, being neighbors but despite all this being at odds with each other and having better relations with people/countries they on paper have nothing or very little in common with.

It would be unfair to give KSA or any other country for that matter a purely humanitarian role here when such a thing never existed in human history let alone in the Middle East. In it's pure form.

You feel me?

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## Hussein

Yzd Khalifa said:


> We don't have any issue with for who they are. But KSA won't allow some entity to meddle in her best friends' country to plot overthrowing their Gov'ts. We also are doing the same *with Al-Qaida - wether their attacks or plotted attacks took place here or there or weren't.*


you mean it is ok al qaida in syria and iraq ?


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## Yzd Khalifa

Hussein said:


> you mean it is ok al qaida in syria and iraq ?



Ever seen me supporting Al-Nusrah? 

Funny.

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## Hussein

Yzd Khalifa said:


> Ever seen me supporting Al-Nusrah?
> 
> Funny.


i was kiding my friend . of course i know you are very far to be extremist. sorry if i was not enough to show i was kiding.


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## Yzd Khalifa

Hussein said:


> i was kiding my friend . of course i know you are very far to be extremist. sorry if i was not enough to show i was kiding.


I can't stand terrorists.

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## Ceylal

Sissi , the new Egyptian messie..

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## elis

Ceylal said:


> Sissi , the new Egyptian messie..



It's true that he has saved Egypt from the MB claws, who are the slaves of the USA

He also litterally kicked the *** of uncle Sam, the crook, out of Egypt
Uncle Sam was here to try to kill Egypt slowly for his lady Israel


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## Falcon29

Informant said:


> MB has nothing to do with Islam just like Mullah Diesel has nothing to do with Islam. Just because something has an Islamic wrapper doesnt make it untouchable or unquestionable. Especially in politics i'd rather be associated with something of an irreligious line than a religious one. My choice may be prone or susceptible to corruption. But an Islamic/religious party? How can you tarnish something so sacred ( religion / Islam ) with something so vile (politics)?



Oh yeah, as if you're an Islamic scholar. Get real. You Saudis and khaleeji's are doing great with Islam sell alcohol in your nations, leaders in bed with enemies of Muslim nations, a majority of your people, maybe not saudi, but elsewhere in the Khaleej are dating and having pre marital sex. I've seen the things myself when I went to visit an aunt in Dubai. It's really bad. You've gotten in love with money and it's pathetic how you're people became. Islam is directly involved in politics.

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## Falcon29

Yzd Khalifa said:


> No, the MB interfered in the UAE's and Jordan's affair, something that pissed the Saudi Elites off. They chose not to back with which is a good decision they took.
> 
> Anyway, The new Qatari Gov't is taking another approach.



Ha Ha Ha! Because you're UAE government arrested over a hundred Egyptian innocents accusing them of trying to overthrow the government you're telling me they interfere with your affairs. The UAE threatened for no reason at all to cut work for Egyptians in their country after the MB got in power and Saudi Arabia and the UAE directly intervened in Egypt's affairs by messing around with the oil supplies to Egypt in coordination with the Egyptian military and also supporting opposition protests. For no good reason. 

I like you both. But, you need stop acting powerful and power hungry, it's disgusting. This is what corrupted your people. If you knew how much dating and zina went on in your countries you'd be shocked. It's annoying as hell how some Saudis try to embrace European culture just because they have the money to do so. The innocent people here are the Yemenis. Whom I favor out of gulf arabs. As a people's, not as government. 

And remember this stuff went out of the window when Saddam attacked KSA don't make remember what happened.


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## elis

BS. Saddam never attacked Saudi Arabia.

KSA armed Saddam the dog against Iran.


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## Falcon29

elis said:


> BS. Saddam never attacked Saudi Arabia.
> 
> KSA armed Saddam the dog against Iran.



Yes he did attack, KSA was shelled. It didn't become anything major. And KSA did fund Iraq in fear of an Iranian victory.

Some people also suspect Iran got support and maintenance from Israel.

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## elis

Hazzy997 said:


> Yes he did attack, KSA was shelled. It didn't become anything major. And KSA did fund Iraq in fear of an Iranian victory.
> 
> Some people also suspect Iran got support and maintenance from Israel.


An attack is for me when thousands people die, not some mortars shot on the ground that we don't know who did it

People suspecting Iran is with Israel are liars as Iran is under the savage israeli embargo


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## Falcon29

elis said:


> An attack is for me when thousands people die, not some mortars shot on the ground that we don't know who did it
> 
> People suspecting Iran is with Israel are liars as Iran is under the savage israeli embargo



Decades ago was different than today. Nobody suggested they are 'with' Israel. People suspected them of getting military support during the war from Israel.

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## Informant

Hazzy997 said:


> Oh yeah, as if you're an Islamic scholar. Get real. You Saudis and khaleeji's are doing great with Islam sell alcohol in your nations, leaders in bed with enemies of Muslim nations, a majority of your people, maybe not saudi, but elsewhere in the Khaleej are dating and having pre marital sex. I've seen the things myself when I went to visit an aunt in Dubai. It's really bad. You've gotten in love with money and it's pathetic how you're people became. Islam is directly involved in politics.



So the moral decadence doesnt prove me wrong, the leaders might be in bed but the country is happy free from terrorism, people are happy in UAE, Palestenians run to places like here the first chance they get. You Palis cant even have a singular policy amongst yourselves and you're going to point fingers at others? Please get lost. All your leaders have done is squander away the money and beg for independence. You guys are never going to get Independence if you keep this up. I'm from Pakistan and i dont give two shits about any other country. We have all kinds of Problems. From terrorism to economic to sovereignity. 

If you're going to be behind certain Islamic groups then i can guarantee you the dream of free Palestine in future wont even be as close as it is right now.


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## Falcon29

Informant said:


> So the moral decadence doesnt prove me wrong, the leaders might be in bed but the country is happy free from terrorism, people are happy in UAE, Palestenians run to places like here the first chance they get. You Palis cant even have a singular policy amongst yourselves and you're going to point fingers at others? Please get lost. All your leaders have done is squander away the money and beg for independence. You guys are never going to get Independence if you keep this up. I'm from Pakistan and i dont give two shits about any other country. We have all kinds of Problems. From terrorism to economic to sovereignity.
> 
> If you're going to be behind certain Islamic groups then i can guarantee you the dream of free Palestine in future wont even be as close as it is right now.



The countries are happy, so what? I want to see how happy they are after the oil runs out. They have money in which they could do amazing things with. I don't mean building hotels, islands, and all this other stuff. They should fund a space program of their own something like that. Can you imagine what it would be like if they took advantage of their power? 

Your Islamic groups fikh is so unbelievable and that's why they justify their terrorism in their country. The MB is not any Islamic group. They are professionals and people with PHDs and their understanding of Islam and the Sunnah is beyond all Muslims. Hamas never got to where it is today without winning the population. They are smart with what they do and they win over extremist groups. Not because of power, because their Islam is superior to the extremists. 

Extremists dared to make a mistake of bringing arms to a mosque and denounced and Islamic government, which is being on the wrong side in Islam. Hamas came to negotiate, one of their commanders phone called a armed man inside and they shot him in the back and killed him. That's when everyone went to hell and all extremists went to jail or were killed that night. By extremist, I mean people who have a wrong understanding of Islam and don't take time to study it.


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## elis

Hazzy997 said:


> Decades ago was different than today. Nobody suggested they are 'with' Israel. People suspected them of getting military support during the war from Israel.


Again your contra affair.

JEWS used Saddam to attack Iran in 1980, 1 year after Khameini came to power. 

If Saddam attacked Iran with Israel/USA help, it's normal that Iran accepted weapons in 1985 5 years after.

It's legitimate, it's Saddam who is the clown because he was used to start the war and finally they turn against him.


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## Falcon29

elis said:


> Again your contra affair.
> 
> JEWS used Saddam to attack Iran in 1980, 1 year after Khameini came to power.
> 
> If Saddam attacked Iran with Israel/USA help, it's normal that Iran accepted weapons in 1985 5 years after.
> 
> It's legitimate, it's Saddam who is the clown because he was used to start the war and finally they turn against him.



Jews what?


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## GTR66

elis said:


> Again your contra affair.
> 
> JEWS used Saddam to attack Iran in 1980, 1 year after Khameini came to power.
> 
> If Saddam attacked Iran with Israel/USA help, it's normal that Iran accepted weapons in 1985 5 years after.
> 
> It's legitimate, it's Saddam who is the clown because he was used to start the war and finally they turn against him.


Horribly lol'd at this statement. I'm not going to add an extra 200 word on that since I had already explained this in my thread and one of your lame thread who repeatdly use this nonsence in every post.


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## GTR66

The coup category should not be placed as 'drama' or 'thrilling' but 'comedy' because it's hilarious. The Egyptian Armed Force had dumped the anti Morsi organization, they had dumped the comedian 'Jon Stewart' who fled the country after threatened by the SCAF, they had dumped El Baradei who fled to Austria after threatened by the SCAF and the liberals or the socialist who claim to be elected but infact, Abdel Fatteh is the one lifting dumbells of the 80 million population.

The restriction imposed by Abdel Fatteh including the media, religious freedom and politics is more tougher than what Abdel Nasser, Sadat and Mubarak had done. He had detained thousands of Egyptians in prison and killed thousands of their own people and the pro dictatorship used 'hundred' for a cover up, gave the green light for the military supporters to harrass or kill people in street which had never commited before by the three previous dictators. Infact, Abdel Fatteh's reputation had been strained, the moment he had stepped in politics.

Hilarious, the Egyptian Armed Force can't be trusted as long it keeps the Camp David treaty who co'operate with the US and well sees them as loyalist than their own people because Uncle Sam is the one who had provide and build the Egyptian military and the coup coincide with receiving increased in billion dollars of military aid until it had been cancelled by the US who thought the country would remain stable. Unlike the countries with coup d'etat which the US had been involved is nothing compared to Egypt.

I'm sad to say, what I have seen circulating the social net, Egyptians throughout country had been doing the four symbols which represent the massacres had been going on including the Muslims and Coptics who refused to retreat according to the social news by Western journalist.

The country is definitely heading to a civil war which is happening after the increased bombings and clashes, no doubt about that. Egypt is now a failed state.


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## Doritos11

GTR66 said:


> The country is definitely heading to a civil war which is happening after the increased bombings and clashes, no doubt about that. Egypt is now a failed state.



"Failed states" is what countries "become" when they quit being slaves for the US.

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## turbo charged

sir jee apni hi awam ko maar maar ker is ki sakal kitni *wehshat naak *hou gai hai,







kia yeh aap ko kisi musalman fouj ka sipah salar lagta hai?

after killing women and children he now looks like patwari of raja raja chola

yeh kaisay ho sakta hai kai tum nai righteous life guzari ho or righteous kaam kiay hou or phir bhi tumhari shakal pai raja raja chola jaisi lanat per gai hou?????


imam shamil nai aisa kia kaam kia kai 60,70 saal zindagi guzarnay kai baad is ki shakal iman afrooz ho gai?






Kenal Sher Khan Shaheed nai aisa kia kaam kia kai jawani mai hi shakal iman afrooz ho gai?







tum nai apni awam pai kia zulam kiay kai tumhari shakal south india kai raja raja chola mushrik jaisi wehshat naak ho gai??






yeh kaisay ho sakta hai kai tum nai kabhi apni tasveer dosray mumalik kai counterparts sai compare na ki hou??

phir compare kenray kai baad yeh kaisay ho sakta hai kai tumhay apni shakal pai peri hui lanat or wehshat nazar naa aii hou?

chelo karwao ab apnay ADC sai is ko translate


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## Ceylal

Germany suspends collaboration with Egypt | Middle East | World Bulletin


> Germany suspends collaboration with Egypt
> The German Foreign Affairs Ministry has announced that it has suspended cooperation with the post-coup Egyptian government.

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## elis

It proves Al Sissi is not a dog of the westerners except Russia who don't invade arab countries


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## Falcon29

Egypt: Many Protesters Shot in Head or Chest | Human Rights Watch

(London) – Many of the at least 74 pro-Morsy protesters killed in clashes with Egypt’s riot police and plain clothed men who stood alongside were shot in the head or chest. They were killed on July 27 over a period of several hours during clashes on a road near the Muslim Brotherhood’s sit-in at Rabaa al-Adawiya in eastern Cairo.

Human Rights Watch interviewed seven witnesses to the violence and reviewed extensive video footage of the events. Medical staff interviewed by Human Rights Watch judged some of the deaths to be targeted killings because the position of the shots would likely result in death. 

The violence came hours after Interim President Adly Mansour announced, “the state has to impose order by all force and decisiveness.” The same day, Interior Minister Gen. Mohammed Ibrahim warned that security forces would be clearing pro-Morsy sit-ins from Rabaa and Nahda squares “soon.”

Protesters were shot and killed over a period of at least six hours, during clashes with Central Security Forces (riot police) on a major Cairo road. Human Rights Watch was in the field hospital as many of the dead and wounded were brought in, and was told by medical staff that the “majority of the bullet injuries were to the head, neck, and chest.” Four doctors interviewed said that the angle of gunshot wounds indicated they were shot from above.

The Ministry of Health announced that at least 74 civilians died in the morning’s violence. At a press conference earlier that day, the minister of interior insisted that “We never, as police, pointed any firearms at the chest of any demonstrator.”

“The use of deadly fire on such a scale so soon after the interim president announced the need to impose order by force suggests a shocking willingness by the police and by certain politicians to ratchet up violence against pro-Morsy protesters,” said Nadim Houry, deputy Middle East and North Africa director at Human Rights Watch. “It is almost impossible to imagine that so many killings would take place without an intention to kill, or at least a criminal disregard for people’s lives.”

................ 


elis said:


> It proves Al Sissi is not a dog of the westerners except Russia who don't invade arab countries



You idiot you're pro Sisi now? His whole top military brass is bought by the West. Who are you joking!?

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## elis

Come on he doesn't speak to Obama when this terrorist phone him.

The arabs are very proud of Al Sissi despising the powerful americans


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## Mahmoud_EGY



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## Frogman

Home> International
*Egypt: Gunmen Kill Senior Security Officer*
CAIRO November 18, 2013 (AP)
By SARAH EL DEEB Associated Press

Unknown gunmen shot and killed a senior national security officer in Cairo late Sunday as he headed to his office, the Interior Ministry said.

A statement from the ministry said gunmen opened fire on a car carrying Lt. Col. Mohammed Mabrouk of the national security agency, killing him on the spot near his home in the eastern Cairo suburb of Nasr City. Mabrouk worked in the agency's branch in charge of monitoring Islamist groups, including the Muslim Brotherhood, a security official familiar with Mabrouk's work said.

Mabrouk is one of the most senior security officers to be targeted and killed in Cairo during the violence that has gripped Egypt since the ouster of Islamist President Mohammed Morsi in July.

The security official said Mabrouk was hit by seven bullets in his chest and head fired by gunmen whom witnesses described as masked. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to reporters.

The country has seen persistent violence since the coup that removed Morsi after days of mass protests against the country's first democratically elected president. There have been bloody crackdowns on pro-Morsi protests, retaliatory violence blamed on Islamists, and an escalation of attacks by Islamic militants on Coptic Christian churches, security forces and the military, mainly in the Sinai Peninsula.

The government had imposed a state of emergency and nighttime curfew since mid-August, and only lifted it last Thursday.

The military and police have been waging a counterinsurgency against Islamic militants in northern Sinai, and the unrest has increasingly moved closer to the capital.

In September, the interior minister, who heads the security forces, survived a suicide car bombing shortly after he left his home in the same neighborhood where Mabrouk was killed.

Egypt: Gunmen Kill Senior Security Officer - ABC News

-----------------

Mabrouk was one of the officials working on the following cases:

The escape of prisoners (specifically Mohammed Morsi) from Wadi Alnatroon prison.
The alleged collaboration between Mohammed Morsi and Gazan Islamist organization Hamas.
A case involving a terrorist cell which was captured last year after violent firefights in Cairo.
Tracking down and arresting MB leaders.
Gather your own conclusions.

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## Falcon29

How about you tell us what you concluded. I dare you to blame Hamas.


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## Frogman

Hazzy997 said:


> How about you tell us what you concluded. I dare you to blame Hamas.



You should seriously stop bringing Hamas into everything, its annoying. I don't care whether Morsi collaborated with the organization or not. It's not as important to me as other issues are.

My conclusions are as follows:

This was carried out by someone from the MB for a few reasons:

The target was not a high profile one. Therefore the probability of him being targeted coincidentally by Ansar Albeit Almoqades (or any other organisation) is extremely low. Whoever killed this man knew exactly who he was and what he was working on.

Given the cases he was working on its safe to assume he was tasked with similar cases against the MB for the past decade or more. That means he was probably in contact (voluntary or not) with several MB leaders and members. This has happened several times since the MB took power. The most high profile case was Abushaqra's who was on the security detail for Khairat Alshater (when under arrest and imprisonment before the revolution) and a member of the national security's counter terrorist teams.
(Just for you) Hamas had nothing to do with this.

I could be totally wrong. On first impressions this is what I see though. This could have been coincedental but it could be the start of a wave of targeted assassinations against those working on sensitive cases.

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## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> You should seriously stop bringing Hamas into everything, its annoying. I don't care whether Morsi collaborated with the organization or not. It's not as important to me as other issues are.
> 
> My conclusions are as follows:
> 
> This was carried out by someone from the MB for a few reasons:
> 
> The target was not a high profile one. Therefore the probability of him being targeted coincidentally by Ansar Albeit Almoqades (or any other organisation) is extremely low. Whoever killed this man knew exactly who he was and what he was working on.
> 
> Given the cases he was working on its safe to assume he was tasked with similar cases against the MB for the past decade or more. That means he was probably in contact (voluntary or not) with several MB leaders and members. This has happened several times since the MB took power. The most high profile case was Abushaqra's who was on the security detail for Khairat Alshater (when under arrest and imprisonment before the revolution) and a member of the national security's counter terrorist teams.
> (Just for you) Hamas had nothing to do with this.
> 
> I could be totally wrong. On first impressions this is what I see though. This could have been coincedental but it could be the start of a wave of targeted assassinations against those working on sensitive cases.



Then you should stop bringing Hamas into everything. It's getting really annoying. And whatever 'collaboration' with Hamas means making it appear as if the MB committed a heinous crime. 

It's not too difficult understanding what is occurring here. The Egyptian government collectively punishes and persecutes MB members and supporters and censors them from voicing their opinions as Egyptian citizens also preventing them from functioning. 

This has been done by shooting down protestors and killing them in thousands. Was admitted to by Egyptian military general.

In return, it radicalized some anti government activists who felt an urge to target Egyptian security mobs and military bases in frustration. 

Still, the vast majority of the demonstrations are overwhelmingly peaceful but that doesn't have an affect on the dictator government who only supports democracy that suits them. The people that side with them are free to do as they wish and aren't labeled as 'terrorists'. 

We've seen bizarre things, like student protesters being sentenced to 17 years recently, an Egyptian comedian being suspended from air for joking about the military, an Egyptian soccer player suspended from his team for holding 4 fingers in support of the opposition. 

Yet you still try to make them appear as fair and try to present this in a professional manner.


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## Frogman

> Then you should stop bringing Hamas into everything. It's getting really annoying. And whatever 'collaboration' with Hamas means making it appear as if the MB committed a heinous crime.



I don't, I barely mention Hamas. The only reason I mentioned it here is because he was working on a case that *allegedly *involves Hamas. The MB has already committed a series of heinous crimes, adding to them wouldn't be a problem. 



> It's not too difficult understanding what is occurring here. The Egyptian government collectively punishes and persecutes MB members and supporters and censors them from voicing their opinions as Egyptian citizens also preventing them from functioning.



It's not only the Egyptian government that prevents MB supporters from functioning, the majority of Egyptians continue to clash with them. The security forces in most cases are no longer needed to disperse the MB's small protests the families of the areas in which they protest do so without being asked.



> This has been done by shooting down protestors and killing them in thousands. Was admitted to by Egyptian military general.



The numbers are exaggerated. The MB are not victims in this political conflict, they are as guilty as the security forces and military in the killing of protesters and in getting their own supporters killed. If the roles were reversed the MB would have had no problem in cracking down on protesters in Tahrir or anywhere else. There are no victims in Egypt and if there was then they are already several feet under the ground.



> In return, it radicalized some anti government activists who felt an urge to target Egyptian security mobs and military bases in frustration.



There is no justification for killing.



> Still, the vast majority of the demonstrations are overwhelmingly peaceful but that doesn't have an affect on the dictator government who only supports democracy that suits them.



The peaceful demonstrations are dealt with in the same manner, peacefully by the security forces. The MB also had the same concept of democracy, please don't think the brotherhood are in any way liberal democrats. Every single action they took while in power shows otherwise.



> The people that side with them are free to do as they wish and aren't labeled as 'terrorists'.



Because they aren't. Nobody is targeting and executing civilian activists in their homes or continue to protest violently or otherwise in order to coerce the nation into returning a President no one wants but them. The majority of MB supporters are peaceful, however, they do not condemn the violence perpetrated by those they support but try to justify it. In my eyes that's worse than being violent.



> We've seen bizarre things, like student protesters being sentenced to 17 years recently, an Egyptian comedian being suspended from air for joking about the military, an Egyptian soccer player suspended from his team for holding 4 fingers in support of the opposition.



And these are individual cases with nuances and details that are deliberately ignored in order to frame the government as the oppressor and the MB as the liberal democratic victims. When in both cases they are as bad as each other.



> Yet you still try to make them appear as fair and try to present this in a professional manner.



There is no fair or just in Egypt. Not under the previous government or under this one. Everyone has a case of selective memory or dishes out 'justice' selectively. When Egypt becomes just is the day when the entire government of today (including military brass and security forces) share the same prison cell or noose as the MB, SCAF, and Mubarak and his cronies. Then and only then will Egypt be just.

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## Falcon29

Okay I don't know how to split quotes like you're doing so I'm just going to number my responses in order of your responses... @Frogman

1. A case that involves Hamas? What is it? And like what crimes have the MB committed please mention to us a few.

2. The numbers are not exaggerated. The health ministry in Egypt and official political sources confirmed the death toll in that single day. While it was occurring on that day I posted somewhere here I believe a link specifically of government sources so I know I would get called out on it. And don't make a generalization. In very few cases few deaths were a result of protesters and security forces trading fire. You can't prove much. There were many demonstrations.

3. There's no justification for killing? So why where over 600 Egyptians killed in one day when the military opened fire on them for being out on the street? Or do you have a justification for that?

4. I don't think they are all liberals, but many are moderate.

5. If you want to turn this into a discussion of tit for tat violence it won't go anywhere since most is committed by security forces and worse attacks have taken place.

6. What do you mean individual cases? There's nothing more to it. Those people had their careers ruined or censored simply for expressing their opinions. Nothing can justify those actions.

7. Okay, fair point. Nothing is fair, it's more like you're either with the government or not. But, the overwhelming evidence points to anti government or pro democracy activists being targeted.


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## Frogman

> Okay I don't know how to split quotes like you're doing so I'm just going to number my responses in order of your responses... @Frogman



On the editor bar there's quotation marks, simply click it and then copy and past the text you want into the field created by clicking the tab.



> 1. A case that involves Hamas? What is it? And like what crimes have the MB committed please mention to us a few.



You should look it up. I haven't been tuning into that case, I'm more interested in the cases which involved the killing of protesters at Alathidiya as well as other protests across the past few year and a bit. The killing of one man is no less or more heinous than the killing of thousands.



> The numbers are not exaggerated. The health ministry in Egypt and official political sources confirmed the death toll in that single day.


 The number did not exceed a thousand IIRC.



> And don't make a generalization. In very few cases few deaths were a result of protesters and security forces trading fire. You can't prove much. There were many demonstrations.



I try not to make generalizations as much as possible but since we are taking in general terms rather than in minutiae it will happen. I'm not trying to prove anything, there were killings by both sides and several NGO's and human rights organizations attest to that.



> 3. There's no justification for killing? So why where over 600 Egyptians killed in one day when the military opened fire on them for being out on the street? Or do you have a justification for that?



I never argued that it was. If my views aren't clear to you I suggest looking at the last paragraph of my previous post again. Just a correction since we want to be accurate, the clearing of Rab3a and Alnahda was done by the security forces and not the military (that doesn't mean the military wasn't complicit in the killing of protesters in other incidents).



> 4. I don't think they are all liberals, but many are moderate.



That's not what I meant, you don't have to be liberal in order to be a liberal democrat. What I meant was the MB are not advocates of liberal democracy and were never committed to setting up a democratic process in Egypt.

Just a brief outline of what liberal democracy is: 
http://en.wikipedia.or*g*/wiki/Liberal_democracy



> 5. If you want to turn this into a discussion of tit for tat violence it won't go anywhere since most is committed by security forces and worse attacks have taken place.



That's definitely not where I want this to go. The magnitude of violence isn't important to me, the presence and justification of violence from both sides is a much more important issue to me. The magnitude is down to the capabilities of those on the sides of this politcal conflict, not their willingness to inflict violence.



> 6. What do you mean individual cases? There's nothing more to it. Those people had their careers ruined or censored simply for expressing their opinions. Nothing can justify those actions.



Yes they did. However, the circumstances and the context under which they lost their right to free speech or career are different from case to case. For example, Bassem Youssef was suspended from CBC, now the MB and supporters argue that this was direct interference by the military in order to stop his show, however, there is more to it than that.

1. Bassem Yousseff has already targeted the SCAF when they were in power and he wasn't prosecuted or stopped from work.
2. Bassem Yousseff produced his show for ONTV before switching to CBC, ONTV being recognised as a channel that supported the revolution and CBC as one which supported the previous regime. He switched channels because it offered to expand his show bringing him and his content to a wider audience. The channel itself (its policies) was a constant source for his jokes 
3. The episode which was recorded and due to be released before the show was stopped had nothing to do with the military according to the audience who watched it. The entire show was devoted to mocking CBC because of an apologetic statement released by them after the channel received public complaints.
4. Would the government or military really be stupid enough to ban his show considering they are the ones who (want people to think) believe in free speech and liberal democracy.

We or I shouldn't pander on this point too long. All I'm trying to say is that each case had its own context and circumstances, some involved zero governmental influence, while others did or may have.



> 7. Okay, fair point. Nothing is fair, it's more like you're either with the government or not. But, the overwhelming evidence points to anti government or pro democracy activists being targeted.


 They simply aren't pro-democracy.


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## Falcon29

You know this is easier forget the quote thing. @Frogman

1. Yeah, individuals should be prosecuted. Not MB leaders and President of Egyot who only got accused of 'incitement' to be put behind bars. Yet there's no accountability for 600 plus dead in one day. I know you don't deny that happened. 

2. Okay

3. Okay so you're justifying it by calling it a 'clearing' and claiming it was done by security force. That's true. Still a massacre. 

4. Liberal democracy in western nations is a whole different idea. Moot point.

5. Okay


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## Frogman

> 1. Yeah, individuals should be prosecuted. Not MB leaders and President of Egyot who only got accused of 'incitement' to be put behind bars. Yet there's no accountability for 600 plus dead in one day. I know you don't deny that happened.



Individuals who committed the acts and their leadership. The MB is a hierarchical organization, the decision to clear the Alatahdiya protests (among others) came from the top and wasn't a spontaneous move by the ousted presidents supporters. The MB leadership are in no way innocent. There won't be accountability for those who died at Rab3a and Alnahda unless the whole of Egyptian society changes its mentality of all or nothing. The Brotherhood will not bring justice nor will the military, only the true revolutionaries who continue their fight can. Whether they succeed in an evolutionary manner or through revolution is yet to be seen. 



> 3. Okay so you're justifying it by calling it a 'clearing' and claiming it was done by security force. That's true. Still a massacre.



No, I'm calling it a clearing because that was the definition of the operation conducted, the clearing of a site. I'm not justifying it and it was carried out by the central security forces and the police, the only military presence was that of a bulldozer.



> Liberal democracy in western nations is a whole different idea. Moot point.



Not at all. The 2011 revolution had three main goals, bread (meaning life, 3ish), freedom, and social justice. The framework under which these goals would be achieved was agreed upon by all, a liberal democratic system under which the views of all are tolerated and respected. Now, this doesn't mean the objective was to emulate western nations, many things would be different but the central thinking is what counted. The MB had no intention of setting up a liberal democratic nation, they view democracy as a means to power and in gaining power they ignored and disrespected all opposing views as well as ignoring minorities all together.


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## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> Individuals who committed the acts and their leadership. The MB is a hierarchical organization, the decision to clear the Alatahdiya protests (among others) came from the top and wasn't a spontaneous move by the ousted presidents supporters. The MB leadership are in no way innocent. There won't be accountability for those who died at Rab3a and Alnahda unless the whole of Egyptian society changes its mentality of all or nothing. The Brotherhood will not bring justice nor will the military, only the true revolutionaries who continue their fight can. Whether they succeed in an evolutionary manner or through revolution is yet to be seen.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'm calling it a clearing because that was the definition of the operation conducted, the clearing of a site. I'm not justifying it and it was carried out by the central security forces and the police, the only military presence was that of a bulldozer.
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. The 2011 revolution had three main goals, bread (meaning life, 3ish), freedom, and social justice. The framework under which these goals would be achieved was agreed upon by all, a liberal democratic system under which the views of all are tolerated and respected. Now, this doesn't mean the objective was to emulate western nations, many things would be different but the central thinking is what counted. The MB had no intention of setting up a liberal democratic nation, they view democracy as a means to power and in gaining power they ignored and disrespected all opposing views as well as ignoring minorities all together.



1. Which protest are you speaking of? Never heard of that maybe you spelled something wrong. There won't be accountability? It seems every single member of the MB is being held accountable for nothing, has nothing to do with protests at all. The government just wants to get rid of the all organization and take away their rights. 

2. Done by security forces ordered by the military. The military is completely responsible. It's funny that those security forces were nowhere to be found to prevent clashes when the MB was in power. It was all a part of the coup. Same will the shortage of oil. So don't tell me it's the people's will. I was in Egypt before and after the ousting. Suddenly oil was everywhere and suddenly the military started to do its job. 

3. I'm not going to say the MB didn't make mistakes. But, they literally did everything the opposition wanted and it became clear the opposing parties and parliament members wanted to take over everything so that the elected party would have no representatives at all to make any decision regarding the country. That's basically just allowing the military representatives to make all decisions and new constitution making nothing different then the previous government and making very corrupt still.


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## Frogman

> Which protest are you speaking of? Never heard of that maybe you spelled something wrong.



Egypt protest: Morsi advisors resign amidst reports of killings in Cairo violence — RT News

Alithadiya is the area surrounding Egypt's primary presidential palace. The report above is from the start of those events. Look the MB regime did kill people, using both its supporters and the state security forces. The magnitude doesn't matter, what matters is that people died and justice must be served to all no matter their position or views.

A list of people who died on the 30th of June:

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/577293_427723793995487_620644548_n.jpg



> There won't be accountability? It seems every single member of the MB is being held accountable for nothing, has nothing to do with protests at all. The government just wants to get rid of the all organization and take away their rights.



And that's something you have to take up with the government and the masses that support such measures.



> Done by security forces ordered by the military. The military is completely responsible.


 Not arguing otherwise.



> It's funny that those security forces were nowhere to be found to prevent clashes when the MB was in power.



That's simply not true. The security forces were always there to clear protests in cooperation with Morsi supporters. The police and security forces had once relied on paid thugs to help them clear protests but in Morsi's term unpaid and willing supporters of the ousted president helped them. The security forces have gone back to using paid thugs now but to a lesser extent than before the first revolution and SCAF rule.



> It was all a part of the coup. Same will the shortage of oil. So don't tell me it's the people's will. I was in Egypt before and after the ousting. Suddenly oil was everywhere and suddenly the military started to do its job.



If there was concrete proof of that then it should have been provided. The truth is that the MB appointed inexperienced and feckless ministers just because they were loyal and showed their loyalty by running Mr. Morsi's presidential campaign. They had no clue what they were doing. Secondly, don't insult and patronize the Egyptian people by suggesting they filled the streets in their millions gathering in protest against the MB because of fuel and electricity shortages.



> I'm not going to say the MB didn't make mistakes.



Mistakes is an understatement.



> But, they literally did everything the opposition wanted and it became clear the opposing parties and parliament members wanted to take over everything so that the elected party would have no representatives at all to make any decision regarding the country.


​That's preposterous. Firstly, the MB had a clear overall majority in the lower house of Parliament in coalition with the Alnour party, they could push through anything they wanted. Secondly, the majority of the upper house was comprised of Islamist's (MB and Alnour). So, in Parliament they had complete freedom to legislate.

When the lower house was disbanded by the constitutional court (because one third of it was elected using a different method than the rest) the majority of their powers went to the elected president. The opposition had zero power to influence legislation or policy without mass demonstrations. 

What did Morsi or the MB concede to the opposition?

A body that represented all Egyptians to draw up the new constitution which the opposition argued should have happened before elections? 

The body was dominated by Islamists and so minorities couldn't get what they wanted (majority vote used to agree or disagree on articles) in their own constitution and some left the body. 

The disbanding of the body as several factions pulled out and the creation of a new one?

No. The body went on to create Egypt's worst ever constitution and one that was illegitimate.

This was all before the presidential/constitutional decree which if you don't know about then you need to look up because the day that decree was issued was the day Morsi lost his legitimacy, coincidentally it was a day after talks with said opposition and the decree wasn't even mentioned.



> That's basically just allowing the military representatives to make all decisions and new constitution making nothing different then the previous government and making very corrupt still.



It wasn't the opposition that was working with the military but the MB. You should look up the relationship between Tantawi and the MB before and after elections. You're backing the wrong horse here, even if you agree with them ideologically. Oh yeaah, who was it again that said the interest charged by the IMF on their loans were administrative fees? I'm pretty sure that's Riba and as we know that same someone said that he would not dabble in such Haram matters.

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## Falcon29

1. That's funny, you keep telling us justice needs to be served and that officials are responsible for clashes on the ground between supporters of each side. So since you're so just. Hold the other side accountable as well. And the magnitude does matter, we don't know if those killed were deliberately killed on June 30th and which sides they were from. You gave us a military link to the deaths. When 600 protesters were killed in one day deliberately then you should hold them accountable. Instead of pointing fingers at a previous date and making a retarded argument. Or is your justification that the masses somehow approve of mass murder so nothing should be done? How stupid that does that? So the vast majority of Egyptians are monsters?

2. Okay

3. Provide evidence paid 'thugs' were used and don't give me a military source.

4. Proof? Everybody was reporting about the sudden change just 24 hours later. And the gulf countries were anti MB and started shipping oil as soon as the coup started. Where am I insulting Egyptians? Do you have problems with reading comprehension? I clearly stated that these things could have been avoided but military pushed for it to pressure the MB over time.

5. Okay

6. So? They were voted in by the people. Liberals got 30% of the seats? MB had 47% and the Nour party had about 30% and they have different ideas then the MB and are even against them as we seen in the coup. How so did they not have any influence? I'm not doing your work for you back your statements up.

7. Why are you telling me I shouldn't back them up? They have a large history. Of course I recognized mistakes they made in the past couple years but not all blame lies on them. As I've said, minority secularists and liberals wanted too much influence of their own which was unrealistic. And I'm not backing them up just because I agree with them ideologically. On the contrary, you're doing so, whatever the coptic church says you roll with it.

@Frogman


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## Frogman

> 1. That's funny, you keep telling us justice needs to be served and that officials are responsible for clashes on the ground between supporters of each side. So since you're so just. Hold the other side accountable as well. And the magnitude does matter, we don't know if those killed were deliberately killed on June 30th and which sides they were from. You gave us a military link to the deaths. When 600 protesters were killed in one day deliberately then you should hold them accountable. Instead of pointing fingers at a previous date and making a retarded argument. Or is your justification that the masses somehow approve of mass murder so nothing should be done? How stupid that does that? So the vast majority of Egyptians are monsters?



I still have no idea why you are attacking me or think I somehow represent the current regime. Again, read the last paragraph of post #3804 or any other post. The argument I'm trying to get across is that there are no 'good' sides in Egypt just as there are no 'victims' (talking about leaderships and organizations not individuals). I still don't know why you can't understand my views.



> Provide evidence paid 'thugs' were used and don't give me a military source.



I'm sorry if you don't know about the 'baltagiya' and how the central security forces use them. This has been going on for years. A quick Google search will come up with some answers.

This is a report from the 2011 revolution:

Thugs-for-Hire Leave Mark on Protests, Egyptians Say - WSJ.com



> Proof? Everybody was reporting about the sudden change just 24 hours later.



We are communicating from across the Atlantic ocean in a matter of seconds (if not less). With the worlds press on the ground and every one looking in it would be surprising if no one noticed what happened especially when a regime is about to come down. It fell way before the military even intervened. The series of ministerial resignations before the 3rd of July sealed the governments fate (as did Morsi's speech).



> And the gulf countries were anti MB and started shipping oil as soon as the coup started.



So Egypt was in need of fuel. Because you mentioned previously that fuel was withheld internally by the military to ferment revolution but this in itself proves otherwise. Conspiracy or not weak leadership and management can't be excused.



> Where am I insulting Egyptians? Do you have problems with reading comprehension? I clearly stated that these things could have been avoided but military pushed for it to pressure the MB over time.



I know your argument very well. You start by admitting the MB government did make minor mistakes but they should be excused of those mistakes because the military and the 'deep state' worked against them because they wanted the 'seculars', 'liberals', and 'Copts' to rule. Then I ask you if there's proof of this and you don't answer but when I make an accusation you demand proof and tell me not to cite 'military sources'. So its my turn, provide evidence of the military or the deep state withholding supplies and fuel which aren't from 'MB sources'. While you're at it provide proof that the coup was done in coordination with foreign nations.



> So? They were voted in by the people.


 Didn't say otherwise.



> Liberals got 30% of the seats? MB had 47% and the Nour party had about 30% and they have different ideas then the MB and are even against them as we seen in the coup.



They were in an informal coalition when the house was first elected then the Nour party were alienated by the MB which eventually led to them parting ways a few months after. A number of factors lead to that, including the normalization of ties with Iran.



> How so did they not have any influence? I'm not doing your work for you back your statements up.



They couldn't influence *legislation* within the lower house because they had a tiny number of seats compared with the Islamist block and the Democratic Alliance of Egypt*. *So without they ability to reject legislation or pass it then how could they influence it?* street protests to pressure the executive or legislature to listen.*

When the lower house was disbanded most of the powers were transferred to the elected president and then the amount of influence they had was cut further as they could only put pressure through street protests.



> Why are you telling me I shouldn't back them up? They have a large history.



Because they are traitors, just like the military brass and the previous regimes remnants. They may have not betrayed the nation but they betrayed the revolution. Their history means nothing to me.



> Of course I recognized mistakes they made in the past couple years but not all blame lies on them.



They were the government, that's what happens. Mistakes isn't what got them overthrown.



> As I've said, minority secularists and liberals wanted too much influence of their own which was unrealistic.



So, what?



> And I'm not backing them up just because I agree with them ideologically.



Then why.



> On the contrary, you're doing so, whatever the coptic church says you roll with it.





You think I'm a Copt?

You think I would allow religion to have a say in my life or views 

You are no better than a Copt who listens to his Church, after all you would do the same if your beloved Imam told you to support something or not.


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## Falcon29

1. Not attacking you

2. I know that occurred during the 2011 revolution against Mubarak. I'm asking you to support your claim it occurred with Morsi when he didn't need to do so at all since at the same time you claim he was 'working' with the military.

3. I was there 12 days before the coup, I saw the long waits for fuel. Except that there was a very easy way around it. The black market was one way, then connections with the military were other. My taxi driver confused me and pulled up to a large factory like military building with soldiers guarding all entrances. Only to find in the back two large fuel trucks at a great price fueling up or vehicle. It was a game being played. 

4. Okay

5. It's more like because they're power hungry salafists. I'm a person that's known salafists for who they are for a while now. 

6. How is 30% a tiny percentage? And either way, it's what the masses wanted? They voted them in right? So if we go by your ways, you're gonna have to settle that with the people of Egypt. Not to mention the other party also votes alongside them. And there were many meetings conducted to hear out their concerns and they rejected many things and had unrealistic ideas. Not my fault for liberals acting like Pharaohs. 

7. You don't understand politics in your nation, everything was being done to try to relegate the elected party useless. They had no other choice then to secure their spot in some areas or else we know what would have happened long before they even got to govern. 

8. Okay. 

9. So what? It's unrealistic. They don't represent the majority of the Egyptian people. 

10. Look at history, they have always sided with their people and with their Muslim neighbors. They are against a corrupt military which is something very crucial in Egypt. They wanted something different. Nothing you have today is any different. 

11. What imam? There are thousands of imams I could be exposed to around the world. I don't take the word of anybody just for saying they are right on a issue. I'm feel into politics. And some Imam's are correct on some issues. As for Copts, I usually don't have problems with Arabic Christians but it's something about the Copts. Their leaders constantly used to belittle our Prophet and their people are dirty when it comes down to opposing anything muslim regardless of whether they are a better option or not. I'm sure that's who you are too but you don't show it on the forum.


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## Falcon29

Protesters hit Cairo's Tahrir on anniversary of deaths | JPost | Israel News

CAIRO - Hundreds of Egyptians gathered in Cairo's Tahrir Square on Tuesday to commemorate the deaths of protesters killed two years ago and call for reforms, with many voicing rare criticism of the powerful military.

Supporters of army chief General Abdel Fatah al-Sisi, who promised stability and free elections when he overthrew elected Islamist President Mohamed Morsi in July, also showed up at Tahrir but were chased away by activists.

.............


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## Solomon2

OPINIONS




David Ignatius
Opinion Writer
*In Egypt, a spring of discontent*
*By David Ignatius, Published: November 13 E-mail the writer*
MENOUFIA, Egypt

A year ago, the Muslim Brotherhood’s leaders in this region of the Nile Delta seemed confident that they owned the future. But then came the military coup on July 3 that toppled President Mohamed Morsi and killed hundreds of his supporters.

The story of this tumultuous counterrevolution is clarified by a visit to this town in the heart of the delta. You encounter an odd combination of a bottom-up popular rejection of the Brotherhood and a top-down military putsch. I was happy to hear demands for citizens’ rights, even amid the cheers for the generals. But it’s fair to say that the basic problem of this region — not enough jobs for a rapidly expanding population — hasn’t improved at all.

The Muslim Brotherhood leadership here has disappeared, into prison or hiding. Their headquarters on Nasser Street has been converted into a commercial day-care center. A few blocks away, the offices of the Brotherhood’s political wing, the Freedom and Justice Party, have been taken over by an interior design firm. There’s a spooky feeling that Brotherhood members have become “unpersons,” not seen or discussed.

Mohammed Mansour, a 21-year-old business student whose cousin is a Brotherhood supporter, explained why Morsi has so little support now: “The Muslim Brotherhood is an organization that operates in the dark. When they were given the opportunity to operate in the light, they failed.”

To get a sense of what political activists here think, I contacted local members of a leftist group called the April 6 movement, which helped power the 2011 Tahrir Square revolution that toppled Hosni Mubarak. A year ago, they talked loudly outdoors along a Nile canal, denouncing Morsi. This time, they asked to meet inside a cafe on Talaat Harb Street. But they proved to be as outspoken as ever — especially in warning against continued military rule.

“Most people here hated the Brotherhood and Morsi,” argued Mohammed Kamal, a computer teacher at a local high school. But he’s worried that Gen. Abdel Fatah al-Sissi, who led the coup (spoken of here as a popular “revolution”), will decide to run for president next year and “a military uniform will enter the presidential palace again,” in a reprise of Mubarak. “We appreciate what Sissi has done in getting rid of the Muslim Brotherhood. But the army is there to protect, not to rule.”

Mostafa Ibrahim, a 49-year-old lawyer who heads the local chapter of the liberal al-Dostour Party, said he had recently gone to the local governor and admonished him: “Nothing will change unless you change the people under you.” The “faloul,” or remnants of the Mubarak regime, still hold many key positions.

These activists conceded that they were in the minority and that, if Sissi decided to run, he would get 90 percent of the vote. “People are tired of disorder,” said Kamal. “They want to get on with their lives.”

What happened during the year of Morsi’s rule helps explain why the Islamists lost support. The Brotherhood tried to install a member as governor late last year, but he lasted only three months. There was an interim period of no governor, and then they tried again to install their own man in June. He never could get to his office because of daily protests outside. Meanwhile, Brotherhood members began using local services such as distribution of butane gas to win political patronage.

Under the Brotherhood, “There was no clear plan for development of Menoufia. There was no investment, no visits by ministers, no opening of new factories. You could feel a sense of stagnation,” said Mohammed el-Shamy, a reporter for Akhbar el-Yom newspaper.

When I visited here a year ago, Badr el-Falah, a local Brotherhood member of parliament, talked of economic development — but without any specifics. He disappeared after June 30 and “nobody has heard of him,” said Shamy with a shrug.

As discontent with Morsi increased last spring, the Tamarod movement began circulating petitions calling for Morsi’s removal. According to Ibrahim, the petition was signed by 2.6 million people, or more than half of Menoufia’s 4.5 million residents. The group claims it obtained 22 million signatures across Egypt.

Since the generals stepped in, security here is better and “people are happier and more relaxed,” said Kamal. But there are no new jobs — and that’s the core problem.

Mansour said he has no idea what to do when he graduates, except try to emigrate: “The person who graduates in Menoufia doesn’t get a job in Menoufia. He gets on a bus.”

_Read more from David Ignatius’s archive, follow him on Twitter or subscribe to his updates on Facebook._


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## Frogman

> I know that occurred during the 2011 revolution against Mubarak. I'm asking you to support your claim it occurred with Morsi when he didn't need to do so at all since at the same time you claim he was 'working' with the military.



I misunderstood your reply. I thought you were inquiring about whether these actions happened in the first place. Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi Archives « Now The End Begins

The source is crappy but its the best I could get to without sifting through hundreds of Google search pages. The most high profile person tortured by MB members was a former Egyptian Ambassador to Venezuela.

Actually, these are probably better.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/evidence-of-torture-by-egyptian-islamists/?_r=0

CairoGate: Egyptian Diplomat Survives MB Torture Says "It was like a Nazi camp" - Cynthia Farahat

Ill dig more and find the actual MB member who was in charge of this, I forgot his name. The day after this people were actually killed in clashes.



> I was there 12 days before the coup, I saw the long waits for fuel. Except that there was a very easy way around it. The black market was one way, then connections with the military were other. My taxi driver confused me and pulled up to a large factory like military building with soldiers guarding all entrances. Only to find in the back two large fuel trucks at a great price fueling up or vehicle. It was a game being played.



See, this makes no difference to me. If the military was withholding fuel to ferment revolution or discontent then the government should have had enough sense to be transparent about it. There is no excuse for poor leadership or management. Simply stating there's a conspiracy or the deep state is working against me in Egypt is no longer a valid excuse for being inept.



> 5. It's more like because they're power hungry salafists. I'm a person that's known salafists for who they are for a while now.


 Not arguing they aren't power hungry. There were genuine grievances for the rift between them though.



> How is 30% a tiny percentage? And either way, it's what the masses wanted? They voted them in right? So if we go by your ways, you're gonna have to settle that with the people of Egypt.



30% is a small percentage if the entire house is dominated by the Islamist Block and the Democratic blah blah (FJP and other parties). You can't pass through legislation or halt it without support from the latter two. The only way you can be influential is if there were divisions between or within parties and they had to rely on you to pass legislation or reject it.

The opposition was primarily focused on the constitution and that shouldn't have been affected by who was elected or not. Both houses were actually quite useless. They didn't pass a single piece of useful legislation.



> Not to mention the other party also votes alongside them. And there were many meetings conducted to hear out their concerns and they rejected many things and had unrealistic ideas. Not my fault for liberals acting like Pharaohs.



Pharaohs get a bad rap, man. How they actually behaved and how they have been perceived to behave are totally different because of a single fantastical story. You should read up on it. Its quite riveting.



> So what? It's unrealistic. They don't represent the majority of the Egyptian people.


 Can you mention a few of these unrealistic demands, please?

You seriously believe the MB represented or represents the majority of Egyptian people?



> Look at history, they have always sided with their people and with their Muslim neighbors. They are against a corrupt military which is something very crucial in Egypt. They wanted something different. Nothing you have today is any different.



The different they wanted was not the different the nation wanted. Rather than trying to change the fabric of the nation they should have focused on governing and progressing. That is what angered people the most. How could they side with the people of a nation when they are an international organization which doesn't believe in nations in the first place.




> What imam? There are thousands of imams I could be exposed to around the world. I don't take the word of anybody just for saying they are right on a issue.



As do Copts. The Coptic community has a variety of different preachers to which they can be exposed, they are not one living body.



> Their leaders constantly used to belittle our Prophet and their people are dirty when it comes down to opposing anything muslim regardless of whether they are a better option or not.



Have you interacted with all 10 million Egyptian Copts?

The same could be said of (some) Islamic scholars and Muslims themselves by those who wish to stereotype people. The Coptic Church is right next to the Mosque in my village and everyone knows each other and theres no religious animosity whatsoever.



> I'm sure that's who you are too but you don't show it on the forum.



Refer to post #8 the penultimate paragraph.
Russians 'send in big guns to sell arms to Egypt'

I come from a Muslim family BTW.

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## Falcon29

Okay habibi, this is getting nowhere. So we'll just end it here and this thread doesn't mean much anymore. Except until the 'trial' goes on or something significant occurs. 

Let's wait and see.

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## islamrules

11 years for 22 protesters , 22 young innocent girls 





the guy taking the wheel is the stupid fasiq judge who sentenced them, u can read "Tamarud" on that white cap, how can one trust a judge like that !!!

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## mahatir

Frogman said:


> You should seriously stop bringing Hamas into everything, its annoying. I don't care whether Morsi collaborated with the organization or not. It's not as important to me as other issues are.
> 
> My conclusions are as follows:
> 
> This was carried out by someone from the MB for a few reasons:
> 
> The target was not a high profile one. Therefore the probability of him being targeted coincidentally by Ansar Albeit Almoqades (or any other organisation) is extremely low. Whoever killed this man knew exactly who he was and what he was working on.
> 
> Given the cases he was working on its safe to assume he was tasked with similar cases against the MB for the past decade or more. That means he was probably in contact (voluntary or not) with several MB leaders and members. This has happened several times since the MB took power. The most high profile case was Abushaqra's who was on the security detail for Khairat Alshater (when under arrest and imprisonment before the revolution) and a member of the national security's counter terrorist teams.
> (Just for you) Hamas had nothing to do with this.
> 
> I could be totally wrong. On first impressions this is what I see though. This could have been coincedental but it could be the start of a wave of targeted assassinations against those working on sensitive cases.


 
Ansar Almoqdas is actually a Palestinian group from gaza financed by MB and trained by Hamas .

Hamas and majority of the clowns living in Gaza think Egyptians are infidels , Just keep those tunnels shut they are not worth it .



Hazzy997 said:


> Ha Ha Ha! Because you're UAE government arrested over a hundred Egyptian innocents accusing them of trying to overthrow the government you're telling me they interfere with your affairs. The UAE threatened for no reason at all to cut work for Egyptians in their country after the MB got in power and Saudi Arabia and the UAE directly intervened in Egypt's affairs by messing around with the oil supplies to Egypt in coordination with the Egyptian military and also supporting opposition protests. For no good reason.
> 
> I like you both. But, you need stop acting powerful and power hungry, it's disgusting. This is what corrupted your people. If you knew how much dating and zina went on in your countries you'd be shocked. It's annoying as hell how some Saudis try to embrace European culture just because they have the money to do so. The innocent people here are the Yemenis. Whom I favor out of gulf arabs. As a people's, not as government.
> 
> And remember this stuff went out of the window when Saddam attacked KSA don't make remember what happened.


 
UAE arrested MB members not Egyptians , the MBs hate Egypt and Egyptians, for them it is Just a country where they piss and eat , many times MB members burned Egyptian flags and called Egyptians infidels .


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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> 11 years for 22 protesters , 22 young innocent girls
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the guy taking the wheel is the stupid fasiq judge who sentenced them, u can read "Tamarud" on that white cap, how can one trust a judge like that !!!



Just to make things clearer. Each of the accused has been given a sentence of six months either in prison or in a juvenile detention, the combined total of all sentences is 11 years. With good behaviour they should be out in a couple of months.


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## hussain0216

Beyond disgusting

Filthy secular liberal Egyptians have lost their minds


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## Doritos11

hussain0216 said:


> Beyond disgusting
> 
> Filthy secular liberal Egyptians have lost their minds



That’s not filthy that’s equal treatment, now how do you like it ? You belong in the jail as well for some time, experience equal treatment, but not with the girls, we can’t trust you with with them.

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## islamrules

Doritos11 said:


> That’s not filthy that’s equal treatment, now how do you like it ? You belong in the jail as well for some time, experience equal treatment, but not with the girls, we can’t trust you with with them.


u belong under the boots of the mujahedines


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## Doritos11

islamrules said:


> u belong under the boots of the mujahedines



Too bad for you they wear flip flops not boots.

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## mahatir

Doritos11 said:


> Too bad for you they wear flip flops not boots.


 
LOL I never realised that point


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## xenon54 out

hussain0216 said:


> Beyond disgusting
> 
> Filthy secular liberal Egyptians have lost their minds


As if beeing secular leads to violance... 
The biggest problem of ME today is the violance from people calling themselves ''religious'' isnt it?

Anyways im against every form of violance and injustice be it ''secular'' or ''religious''.

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## mahatir

xenon54 said:


> As if beeing secular leads to violance...
> The biggest problem of ME today is the violance from people calling themselves ''religious'' isnt it?
> 
> Anyways im against every form of violance and injustice be it ''secular'' or ''religious''.


 
Yeah man , things are going weird and strange bedfellows are building alliances , the end result of the Syrian agreement between big powers will shape alliances in middle east for next 100 years.

I think Turkey , Qatar , MB , Hezbollah and Iran on one side vs Israel , Gulf states , Egypt and Jordan.

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## hussain0216

The new Egypt, more pathetic and worthless then the old Egypt

These secular liberal types are enemies of all muslims in the middle east and beyond,

May these Egyptian sisters be released


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## Frogman

hussain0216 said:


> The new Egypt, more pathetic and worthless then the old Egypt
> 
> These secular liberal types are enemies of all muslims in the middle east and beyond,
> 
> May these Egyptian sisters be released




They have been pardoned by the Interim President Adly Mansour, who is apparently one of those secular liberal types.


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## hussain0216

I have just been reading about the new Egypt and it's mass arrests against Egyptians who make the mistake of protesting

It seems even some of the scum bags who ousted the democratically elected government of president Morsi are being arrested and rounded up like rats


These young sisters haven't been pardoned as I read it they will be forced to go through the whole appeal process a final judgement reached

And then allegedly they will be pardoned

In the meantime they are in jail


You people are pathetic and stupid for allowing the deep state to come back like this

A democratic government could be removed through the ballot box if you didn't like them but allowing the same scum who ruled Egypt for decades another chance to control power was downright retarded


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## mahatir

Frogman said:


> They have been pardoned by the Interim President Adly Mansour, who is apparently one of those secular liberal types.


 
ta5ayal kano beynazelo el banat kol youm 7 am 3ashan yetzahro , tayeb feen 7ormet el mar2a wel 3awra wel kalam el tafeh elly kano wag3een ras el nas beeh .

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## MooshMoosh

Ceylal said:


> *Oh welcome to Egypt the birth of knowledge, where citizen are massacred , flag burned, where raping is a mob sport ....etc...etc.*...People living in glass houses should refrain from throwing rocks...
> No matter what happens politically between the two countries, rest assured that nothing will brake the people ties...that's the big difference between us in the Maghrib and you in the Mechrak.


Oh look, a Berber realized this! 



Doritos11 said:


> That’s not filthy that’s equal treatment, now how do you like it ? You belong in the jail as well for some time, experience equal treatment, but not with the girls, we can’t trust you with with them.


Rafidi, please order some lenses from the Optometry if you're blind unless if you're living in a no man land. In daily basis, the military regime ordered by Junta Pissi had been detaining thousands of innocents in both little and elders for nothing, killed thousands and backed the Nasserist thugs in street even detaining Syrians and treating Palestinians low, not even Sadat or Mubarak did this. They even dumped the moron B.Youseff, Baradei and imposed media restriction and allowed Pro regimist to perform only. Look at the court for example when the Twitter journalist exposed the hypocrisy of the Pro regime Egyptian journalist that were allowed in only to chant 'execution for Morsi' for an obvious reason.

Algerian military junta did not do this during their 9 months protest back in the 90s before the insurgency began which most likely will happen to Egypt but we will not condemn the army because the proof is when the police officer bombed the Interior Minister, people started to say "never judge the book by its cover". The responsible was held by Sissi, the hardcore secularist and the Nasserist street thugs. It's very clear even blind understood this because simply we have the INTERNET and the MEDIA. Do you actually think nothing will happen with the innocent teenagers being up in prison by a fraud judges who openly support Tamarod fraud movement? The traitors outside is bankrupting the country but it won't last long for the Junta. Not surprise anyway since you are Dorittos so go ahead and listen to the PRO military Egyptian medias, heck even hardly seen Western journalist support them according to their social sites. 

Even young girls have balls to smile and confront the regime which is widely seen on the internet like the detained "teenagers" what @islamrules posted. Only sick fockers would deny it, they are mostly Atheist inside the country. The military Junta gave the people what they want but it was temporary and all over again. Why does the pros want to be ruled under an iron fist dictatorship? They should STFU.


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## Frogman

> Rafidi, please order some lenses from the Optometry if you're blind unless if you're living in a no man land.



Just stop with the Takfir, will you. It's uncivilized and contradicts your own religions texts about the respect for and tolerance of other religions and people. Something which you and those you support have all forgotten about Islam.



> In daily basis, the military regime ordered by Junta Pissi had been detaining thousands of innocents in both little and elders for nothing



Physically impossible. The Egyptian prison system doesn't have the capacity to accommodate "thousands" of people arrested everyday. Egypt's incarceration rate is 80 prisoners per one hundred thousand people which is quite low and thus Egypt wouldn't have a prison system adequate enough to house ever expanding thousands. No one is innocent of anything.



> killed thousands and backed the Nasserist thugs in street even detaining Syrians and treating Palestinians low, not even Sadat or Mubarak did this.



Thugs typically don't have any form of political leaning, the only incentive for them is money. Please explain to me in all your political know how what Nasserism is, please? 

Because every time you use a political phrase or mention an ideology you simply don't know what the hell you are talking about, its a bit like repetition if you ask me. As for Syrians, don't you think an embassy in Cairo would have helped with their plight? I believe the reports are over exaggerated given there's over one hundred thousand Syrian nationals in Egypt. The treatment Palestinian refugees in Egypt has always been bad, its a shame it took a politcal crisis in which you had to find things to moan about to make you realise such treatment actually existed.



> They even dumped the moron B.Youseff, Baradei and imposed media restriction and allowed Pro regimist to perform only.



So why was Bassem Youssef's article in the Alshorouq newspaper allowed to go on? 

The only thing Albernameg has to do is terminate their contract with CBC and then they can air shows freely on another channel, if not then they have a brilliant medium called Youtube. Baradei resigned he wasn't dumped. Aljazeera is still rolling is it not?



> Look at the court for example when the Twitter journalist exposed the hypocrisy of the Pro regime Egyptian journalist that were allowed in only to chant 'execution for Morsi' for an obvious reason.



So, it was OK for the accused to whore themselves for the Camera but it wasn't for those sitting on the other side of the cage? What would have been the point of this when everyone knew full well that the trial wasn't going to be aired.



> Algerian military junta did not do this during their 9 months protest back in the 90s before the insurgency began which most likely will happen to Egypt but we will not condemn the army because the proof is when the police officer bombed the Interior Minister, people started to say "never judge the book by its cover".



Does your stupidity know no bounds. The Algerian crisis and the Egyptian one are completely different and its only a fool who thinks they follow the same path. 

*NEWSFLASH:* There is an insurgency. 

Did you even read about who tried to assassinate the interior minister? A former Armed Forces officer who had been dismissed because of his religious extremism from the forces who then went on to participate against foreign forces (or local ones) in multiple theaters around the world. 



> The responsible was held by Sissi, the hardcore secularist and the Nasserist street thugs. It's very clear even blind understood this because simply we have the INTERNET and the MEDIA.



OK, that was just unintelligible. 



> Do you actually think nothing will happen with the innocent teenagers being up in prison by a fraud judges who openly support Tamarod fraud movement? The traitors outside is bankrupting the country but it won't last long for the Junta. Not surprise anyway since you are Dorittos so go ahead and listen to the PRO military Egyptian medias, heck even hardly seen Western journalist support them according to their social sites.



You are seriously deluded. You think this regime is crumbling when in reality its consolidating its already overwhelming power in Egypt.



> Why does the pros want to be ruled under an iron fist dictatorship? They should STFU.



Because a theocracy is worse. Please refrain from posting, because everything you write is incredibly stupid and the majority of times is wrong. How's the quest for an Australian citizenship going? I would have thought you go back to Egypt to support your innocent brothers and sisters on the streets rather than being an internet jockey....

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## Ceylal

Is the army is allowed to judge civilian? This is a bad precedent if the new Egyptian constitution allows it..


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## Ceylal

MooshMoosh said:


> Oh look, a Berber realized this!


Sorry to bust a little your bubble, but our ancestors contributed to it....Al Azhar is a reminder of the Berber Saavy!





> Algerian military junta did not do this during their 9 months protest back in the 90s before the insurgency began


Our army is a republican, made from the people it protects... Despite all the accusations against her, and her command, none have been proven...And to this day, Algerians have a deep respect for that institution, just like they did with the ALN before her.


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## Frogman

Ceylal said:


> Is the army is allowed to judge civilian? This is a bad precedent if the new Egyptian constitution allows it..



The previous constitution or constitutions had allowed this, the new one which will be up for referendum in January retains the clause but expands on it. So in the last constitution it stated that civilians could be tried by military courts if they interfered (violently) directly against the military's interests (or something to that effect). The new clause makes it clearer as to what you can actually be tried for thus limiting the power of military slightly but it is no where near acceptable.

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## Falcon29

xenon54 said:


> As if beeing secular leads to violance...
> The biggest problem of ME today is the violance from people calling themselves ''religious'' isnt it?
> 
> Anyways im against every form of violance and injustice be it ''secular'' or ''religious''.



The biggest problem with the world is they only associate problems with violence. As if drugs, corruption, oppression, exploration, false ideas, bad messages is becoming a way of life. 

This way of life is to me worse than all the violence in the world. I agree violence shouldn't be a norm. 

Although ridding the world of violence to me won't solve the problems of the world. 

I don't know about secular life in turkey. But, I can tell you here bad messages are portrayed to our children by celebrities and these ideas are promoted in high school and college. Partying, abusing ones self, selling ones body, excessive drug use, singling out people who don't want to be part of this(either be like us or don't 'enjoy' life. This is very sad for people looking for quality in life and dedicated relationships. 

I see selling ones body the most major problem today. If you're secular or religious how can you promote this behavior. It's unfortunate for girls and boys to be peer pressured into these acts that aren't done for romance. Just to be fun or fit in. 

And then they define this person as the average 'cool' or 'normal' person. What a sad world. Where did the pure people go.


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## mahatir

Ceylal said:


> Sorry to bust a little your bubble, but our ancestors contributed to it....Al Azhar is a reminder of the Berber Saavy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our army is a republican, made from the people it protects... Despite all the accusations against her, and her command, none have been proven...And to this day, Algerians have a deep respect for that institution, just like they did with the ALN before her.


 
even if any of these accusations are true still Algerian army any day over MB rats



MooshMoosh said:


> Oh look, a Berber realized this!
> 
> 
> Rafidi, please order some lenses from the Optometry if you're blind unless if you're living in a no man land. In daily basis, the military regime ordered by Junta Pissi had been detaining thousands of innocents in both little and elders for nothing, killed thousands and backed the Nasserist thugs in street even detaining Syrians and treating Palestinians low, not even Sadat or Mubarak did this. They even dumped the moron B.Youseff, Baradei and imposed media restriction and allowed Pro regimist to perform only. Look at the court for example when the Twitter journalist exposed the hypocrisy of the Pro regime Egyptian journalist that were allowed in only to chant 'execution for Morsi' for an obvious reason.
> 
> Algerian military junta did not do this during their 9 months protest back in the 90s before the insurgency began which most likely will happen to Egypt but we will not condemn the army because the proof is when the police officer bombed the Interior Minister, people started to say "never judge the book by its cover". The responsible was held by Sissi, the hardcore secularist and the Nasserist street thugs. It's very clear even blind understood this because simply we have the INTERNET and the MEDIA. Do you actually think nothing will happen with the innocent teenagers being up in prison by a fraud judges who openly support Tamarod fraud movement? The traitors outside is bankrupting the country but it won't last long for the Junta. Not surprise anyway since you are Dorittos so go ahead and listen to the PRO military Egyptian medias, heck even hardly seen Western journalist support them according to their social sites.
> 
> Even young girls have balls to smile and confront the regime which is widely seen on the internet like the detained "teenagers" what @islamrules posted. Only sick fockers would deny it, they are mostly Atheist inside the country. The military Junta gave the people what they want but it was temporary and all over again. Why does the pros want to be ruled under an iron fist dictatorship? They should STFU.


 
Egyptian Army is far from nasserism and most Egyptians today have no apetite for Arab nationalism


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## xenon54 out

Hazzy997 said:


> The biggest problem with the world is they only associate problems with violence. As if drugs, corruption, oppression, exploration, false ideas, bad messages is becoming a way of life.
> 
> This way of life is to me worse than all the violence in the world. I agree violence shouldn't be a norm.


But the biggest problem in ME is stil violance.



> Although ridding the world of violence to me won't solve the problems of the world.


All the problems you listed there are connected to violance.


> I don't know about secular life in turkey. But, I can tell you here bad messages are portrayed to our children by celebrities and these ideas are promoted in high school and college. Partying, abusing ones self, selling ones body, excessive drug use, singling out people who don't want to be part of this(either be like us or don't 'enjoy' life. This is very sad for people looking for quality in life and dedicated relationships.
> 
> I see selling ones body the most major problem today. If you're secular or religious how can you promote this behavior. It's unfortunate for girls and boys to be peer pressured into these acts that aren't done for romance. Just to be fun or fit in.


Its parents job to protect their children, the state shouldnt intervene in private life of people.



> And then they define this person as the average 'cool' or 'normal' person. What a sad world. Where did the pure people go.


Beein secular doesnt lead to such behavior or beeing religious doesnt avoid such it, its a matter of character.

For exsample, i dont drink alcohol anymore but not because of religion, i had another reason.


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## mahatir

Ceylal said:


> Sorry to bust a little your bubble, but our ancestors contributed to it....Al Azhar is a reminder of the Berber Saavy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well today Algeria has no influence over anything since bumedian died .
Click to expand...




xenon54 said:


> But the biggest problem in ME is stil violance.
> 
> 
> All the problems you listed there are connected to violance.
> 
> Its parets job to protect their children, the state shouldnt intervene in private life of people.
> 
> 
> Beein secular doesnt lead to such behavior or beeing religious doesnt avoid such it, its a matter of character.
> 
> For exsample, i dont drink alcohol anymore but not because of religion, i had another reason.


 
This violence will go on for another decade at-least and Syria will be divided up just like what happened with bosnia.

from what I see fake created countries like Iraq and Syria suffer from excessive violence and civil war , the French and British have Just grouped a bunch of ethnic and religious groups to live together under the rule of unwanted autocrats , it would have exploded at anytime until it did now.

If kurds , Sunni and Shia each had their own state in these countries then we would have no witnessed the current civil wars.


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## mahatir

xenon54 said:


> But the biggest problem in ME is stil violance.
> 
> 
> 
> Its parets job to protect their children, the state shouldnt intervene in private life of people.
> 
> quote]
> 
> If your talking about a civilized well educated nation then I would agree , but when it comes to the sub-humans living in middle east sadly the state has to intervene .
> 
> Imagine when you have people who believe in 72 virgins and others waiting for a person who supposedly disappeared 600 years ago hiding in a cave to come out and be their salvation or those who believe women should marry at an age of 10 years old.
> 
> When you have these kind of creatures you need to use Iron fist to enforce law and order and through gradual transition the state could decrease intervinsion when people grow up.
> 
> Turkey back after WW1 most people there shared the same savage mentality prevalent in Iraq and Syria but luckily they had someone like ataturk who moved turkey to become a civilized country while Iraq and Syria remained as they are and we can see today how in both countries people are slaughtering each other like animals.





Hazzy997 said:


> The biggest problem with the world is they only associate problems with violence. As if drugs, corruption, oppression, exploration, false ideas, bad messages is becoming a way of life.
> 
> This way of life is to me worse than all the violence in the world. I agree violence shouldn't be a norm.
> 
> Although ridding the world of violence to me won't solve the problems of the world.
> 
> I don't know about secular life in turkey. But, I can tell you here bad messages are portrayed to our children by celebrities and these ideas are promoted in high school and college. Partying, abusing ones self, selling ones body, excessive drug use, singling out people who don't want to be part of this(either be like us or don't 'enjoy' life. This is very sad for people looking for quality in life and dedicated relationships.
> 
> I see selling ones body the most major problem today. If you're secular or religious how can you promote this behavior. It's unfortunate for girls and boys to be peer pressured into these acts that aren't done for romance. Just to be fun or fit in.
> 
> And then they define this person as the average 'cool' or 'normal' person. What a sad world. Where did the pure people go.


 
unemployment and some Islamic preachers are the main 2 reasons for violence in middle east.

The preachers could be hanged , but still there has to be an economic solution to unemployment .

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## Falcon29

xenon54 said:


> But the biggest problem in ME is stil violance.
> 
> 
> All the problems you listed there are connected to violance.
> 
> Its parents job to protect their children, the state shouldnt intervene in private life of people.
> 
> 
> Beein secular doesnt lead to such behavior or beeing religious doesnt avoid such it, its a matter of character.
> 
> For exsample, i dont drink alcohol anymore but not because of religion, i had another reason.



I know, it's what's being set as an example for young teenagers. That's not restricted to being a personal matter when everything around you is portraying images and the vast majority fall into the peer pressure.

I'm not speaking of the ME I'm speaking of the West. Why do we see violence as the only issue. This culture has no value anymore.


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## MooshMoosh

Frogman said:


> Just stop with the Takfir, will you. It's uncivilized and contradicts your own religions texts about the respect for and tolerance of other religions and people. Something which you and those you support have all forgotten about Islam.


Rafidi = Shia. No difference



Frogman said:


> Physically impossible. The Egyptian prison system doesn't have the capacity to accommodate "thousands" of people arrested everyday. Egypt's incarceration rate is 80 prisoners per one hundred thousand people which is quite low and thus Egypt wouldn't have a prison system adequate enough to house ever expanding thousands. No one is innocent of anything.


Not house, in street protesting. Using something visual proved that you are not blind 



Frogman said:


> Because every time you use a political phrase or mention an ideology you simply don't know what the hell you are talking about, its a bit like repetition if you ask me. As for Syrians, don't you think an embassy in Cairo would have helped with their plight? I believe the reports are over exaggerated given there's over one hundred thousand Syrian nationals in Egypt. The treatment Palestinian refugees in Egypt has always been bad, its a shame it took a politcal crisis in which you had to find things to moan about to make you realise such treatment actually existed.


100,000+ in Egypt before coup, what now?




*HRW: Syrian refugees in Egypt*
Syrians Facing Harassment in Egypt
We all know Sissi's plan. "Buffer zone and continuous persecuting innocents". 



> *"The plan is led by General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi," tweeted Hassan. "He aims to achieve political and military gains in the coming days."*



*A retired Egyptian general has revealed details of an Egypt-UAE plot to impose a stranglehold on the Gaza Strip*



Frogman said:


> So why was Bassem Youssef's article in the Alshorouq newspaper allowed to go on?
> 
> The only thing Albernameg has to do is terminate their contract with CBC and then they can air shows freely on another channel, if not then they have a brilliant medium called Youtube. Baradei resigned he wasn't dumped. Aljazeera is still rolling is it not?


I don't care about him, shows the media is now restricted with the army, rest is pro military regime. Sounds you support it anyway.
Baradei suid over mistrust







Frogman said:


> So, it was OK for the accused to whore themselves for the Camera but it wasn't for those sitting on the other side of the cage? What would have been the point of this when everyone knew full well that the trial wasn't going to be aired.


 Answer me - who was the judge for the trial and the constitution in whose hand? If you don't want to answer then zip it.



Frogman said:


> Does your stupidity know no bounds. The Algerian crisis and the Egyptian one are completely different and its only a fool who thinks they follow the same path.
> 
> *NEWSFLASH:* There is an insurgency.
> 
> Did you even read about who tried to assassinate the interior minister? A former Armed Forces officer who had been dismissed because of his religious extremism from the forces who then went on to participate against foreign forces (or local ones) in multiple theaters around the world.


Let me give you a recent example since this only allow 3 media max.








Frogman said:


> You are seriously deluded. You think this regime is crumbling when in reality its consolidating its already overwhelming power in Egypt.


You are calling me deluded, how funny. Everyone saw the crimes of Sissi, they saw the videos and the people getting killed back then and the numbers was over thousands, not what according to the so called health minister stated. I'm not gonna start all over again with you, it's clear.

How so? Economics getting worse, the GCC can't do it all along proving economical support as long the unrest is ongoing. Please don't tell me the unrest is over. Just because you are with the regime doesn't mean you should relax and focus on other things. Let me give you two then the rest in your own; one net and one stream. Blind moron.
RNN.NEWS EGYPT
Aljazeera live stream



Frogman said:


> Because a theocracy is worse. Please refrain from posting, because everything you write is incredibly stupid and the majority of times is wrong. How's the quest for an Australian citizenship going? I would have thought you go back to Egypt to support your innocent brothers and sisters on the streets rather than being an internet jockey....


It is obvious, what does the word R*"4"*BA means? Army's presence in the urban cities is increasing and active. Why is that? They should go back to where they belong but they won't now like I said unrest is not over yet. Citizenship is going well, i'm just probably the only one or a few to ignore the R4BA gestures, events and awareness because Sissi won't do anything, he's putting himself in a risk anyway, things will change.

Go and support the military regime under Pissi, I don't care since you're a pro dictatorship.








Ceylal said:


> Is the army is allowed to judge civilian? This is a bad precedent if the new Egyptian constitution allows it..


 All in Sissi's hand. See it yourself

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## Ceylal

MooshMoosh said:


> All in Sissi's *hand*. See it yourself


 We haven't seen the final draft yet....But all in All Sissi did what the the Egyptian masses asked of him...In my book he saved the country.

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## nirreich

Egypt, the most important Arab country, is in shambles and makes a litmus case for the entire Arab civilisation and its clossal failure to handle the challenges of the 21st Century.


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## Frogman

> Rafidi = Shia. No difference



It seems the actions of an ottoman Khalif in the 17th or whatever century has changed your thinking forever. Have you actually ever met a Shia person? I have met plenty due to the UK's immigration and asylum rules and they are no different from Sunnis or other religious types, they even pray in the same mosques most of the time.



> Not house, in street protesting. Using something visual proved that you are not blind



Again, unintelligible. You stated specifically


> the military regime ordered by Junta Pissi had been detaining thousands of innocents in both little and elders for nothing,


 All I have said is that is not possible since we don't have a prison system or the resources to continually imprison thousands or even hundreds of people everyday.



> 100,000+ in Egypt before coup, what now?





> We all know Sissi's plan. "Buffer zone and continuous persecuting innocents".



Did I deny that Syrians were being mistreated in Egypt? No. What I'm doing is questioning whether these reports reflect the overall how Syrians are being treated in Egypt. No one said this is acceptable.



> *"The plan is led by General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi," tweeted Hassan. "He aims to achieve political and military gains in the coming days."*
> *A retired Egyptian general has revealed details of an Egypt-UAE plot to impose a stranglehold on the Gaza Strip*



In the coming days..... It is now December. If you think the Middle East Monitor and a retired (for whatever reason) General pandering for his fifteen minutes of fame on twitter when he has no connection whatsoever to the high command are legit sources then I have news for you......



> I don't care about him



You obviously did otherwise you wouldn't have used him as an example.



> shows the media is now restricted with the army



Yes, its a military regime, did you expect otherwise?

The MB wasn't going to leave the media alone was it now? all this talk of purification and cleansing meant something else it meant bringing all media channels and stations on side. The two are no better than each other.



> Sounds you support it anyway.



If you had the ability to interpret (or even read) my posts you would know otherwise.



> Answer me


 If you thought the trial was set up so a few journalists could shout then you are very theatrical my friend. You should ask yourself who began the shouting? Because it was those in the cage not those beyond it.



> who was the judge for the trial and the constitution in whose hand?



It's in the same hands as those who influenced the last one. There's no major difference between the constitution which is due for referendum in January and that of the Brotherhoods regime. The only difference is that entire segments of society haven't abandoned the committee set up to rewrite it. It's up for referendum you are free of course to go vote no or not participate at all.



> Let me give you a recent example since this only allow 3 media max.



Example of what? You said there was no insurgency. Your examples are weeks if not months old.



> Algerian military junta did not do this during their 9 months protest back in the 90s before the insurgency began *which most likely will happen to Egypt*....



This implies that an insurgency hasn't already started. It has and is being crushed both in the Sinai (in which it had a foothold) and in the rest of Egypt.



> You are calling me deluded, how funny.


 Yes, you are and its not funny. You still think the MB and Morsi will return to power violently or otherwise when they have no chance in hell of doing so.



> Everyone saw the crimes of Sissi, they saw the videos and the people getting killed back then and the numbers was over thousands, not what according to the so called health minister stated. I'm not gonna start all over again with you, it's clear.


 There's no point starting all over again with me because you didn't achieve anything. Even the simplest of things such as proving the death toll was beyond what the health ministry stated is impossible for you.



> How so? Economics getting worse, the GCC can't do it all along proving economical support as long the unrest is ongoing.



Economics wise the current government actually has a plan unlike the previous one. Their plan is to increase funding in infrastructure and other developments while incurring the debts, however, the growth provided by these investments should be enough to sustain the economy until stability can be achieved. Its certainly better than waiting for an IMF loan and then beginning massive round of austerity such as cutting subsidies on goods and fuels which would have probably lead to Morsi being overthrown anyway. Look what happened when Saddat tried to remove subsidies.



> Please don't tell me the unrest is over.



Its not. However, the MB and their support have been reduced to nothingness. You are no longer capable of gathering large protests and therefore no longer capable of influencing public opinion within Egypt. For now you are a spent force.



> Just because you are with the regime doesn't mean you should relax and focus on other things.


 Who said I'm with the 'regime'....



> Let me give you two then the rest in your own; one net and one stream. Blind moron.


 Nice, the Qatari regime mouth piece.



> It is obvious, what does the word R*"4"*BA means? Army's presence in the urban cities is increasing and active. Why is that?



Because the security forces are overstretched. The army's actual presence overall in the country is miniscule given its size over 420 thousand standing, another 400,000 thousand in reserve and over a million which can be called up. Add to that the insurgency in the Sinai is being squashed, militant groups are becoming extremely desperate relying on suicide bombings of logistics and support convoys or personnel and it doesn't look too rosy for your fantasy army. You don't have the weapons or the will power to do anything. By the way today was the start of "BADR 2013" and its the biggest its ever been.



> Go and support the military regime under Pissi, I don't care since you're a pro dictatorship.



And you're a liberal democrat (sarcasm).


----------



## MooshMoosh

Ceylal said:


> We haven't seen the final draft yet....


"Pay me Pissi, I'm a good judge wearing your favourite cap"








Ceylal said:


> Sorry to bust a little your bubble, but our ancestors contributed to it....*Al Azhar is a reminder of the Berber Saavy!*


And who in Al Azhar you a referring to you? It's a big university, you can ask Erdogan for the answer. I'm sure he said it on the media.

I don't think the Azhar students are happy, sir.









__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=250090961811396





@Frogman, you haven't answered the question; did you support the killings and the random detaining and the continuous army's presence in the cities? I can provide you all the videos of the thugs in street supported by the police but you'll deny as always. You should wonder the numbers in R*"4"*BA represent and what does it means. What Qatari regime? Beside Qatar, Turkey, private news network, video stream, the social net/net and even the issue beside politics in Western media. All focus on both sides, enough to understand what's going on reality. You can't be against it, shows how much you support restrictions under regime. Not gonna start with you, just going to follow the updates and if unless decent I'll post.


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## Doritos11

Arguing with you is useless anyway @MooshMoosh

Play victim when someone else rules and treats enemies with iron hand but cheer for Saddam & Al Qaeda, all the killing they do is justified for you.

Once you get power of the army you start massacring your opponents, that's your double standard.

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## MooshMoosh

Doritos11 said:


> Arguing with you is useless anyway @MooshMoosh
> 
> Play victim when someone else rules and treats enemies with iron hand but cheer for Saddam & Al Qaeda, all the killing they do is justified for you.
> 
> Once you get power of the army you start massacring your opponents, that's your double standard.


Coming from someone who support the tyrant and the child murdering gangs in Syria, supporting the ultra sectarian gangs in Iraq who exports their second largest militias to Syria for hunting innocents, supporting the Iranian stooges of Iraq, comparing Saddam over the government today is a big difference and making excuses in order to avoid the subject which is mostly about Iraq since you saw the crimes in Syria on the other thread but an ignorant, criminal supporter and rather post nonsense than watching the crimes of the child murdering gangs. Pretty sure others particularly Hasani and Blackeagle repeated this all the time to the types like you but it's pointless to reply since they are Rafidhas and Nusaryri child butchering supporters who have their obsession with ignoring and making excuses only to avoid the subject.


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## Frogman

> you haven't answered the question; did you support the killings and the random detaining and the continuous army's presence in the cities?


 Read my posts. Or ask Hazzy.



> I can provide you all the videos of the thugs in street supported by the police but you'll deny as always.


 Security forces using paid thugs is common practice. It remained common practice under Morsi only they had Islamist supporters to back them up as well. I'm not denying anything....



> You should wonder the numbers in R*"4"*BA represent and what does it means.



I have no interest in what it means, whether its Ready For Brotherhood Army or a simple typo that stuck makes no difference to me or to whats happening.



> What Qatari regime?



The one which was and is blatantly supporting the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. I'm pretty sure everyone knows Qatar and Aljazeera aren't the epitome of objectivity.



> Beside Qatar, Turkey, private news network, video stream, the social net/net and even the issue beside politics in Western media. All focus on both sides, enough to understand what's going on reality.



What is going in reality!?

The current government are becoming more authoritarian and thus strengthening their grip on the country. The MB and its affiliates are in shambles and are unable to gather people in any real numbers (a few days ago your protest in Tahrir was dispersed in a minute *a new record*) and are relying on outside parties for support and influence which actually isn't happening. The liberal opposition are continuing their struggle but are annoying the ordinary people and still can't connect with them, the Brotherhood is trying to form a coalition with them against the government, however, it will never happen because some people actually have principles. The Sinai insurgency is being crushed and the outside world has lost interest in Egypt, foreign governments have reversed their positions towards the government. Whats happening in reality is the constitution is going ahead to referendum, whats happening in reality is that the MB and Morsi will never return.



> You can't be against it, shows how much you support restrictions under regime.



Right. Believe what you want


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## Doritos11

MooshMoosh said:


> Coming from someone who support the tyrant and the child murdering gangs in Syria


Like Saddam, I agree.




> supporting the ultra sectarian gangs in Iraq


Thats what you do.




> supporting the Iranian stooges of Iraq


Foreigners opinion, irrelevant.




> comparing Saddam over the government today is a *big difference*


Yes.



> and making excuses in order to avoid the subject which is mostly about Iraq since you saw the crimes in Syria on the other thread but an ignorant, criminal supporter and rather post nonsense than watching the crimes of the child murdering gangs.


Repeating al gayzeera propaganda does not make me respond to it, you want to worship the fat Qatari ? don't force others.



> Pretty sure others particularly *Hasani and Blackeagle* repeated this all the time to the types like you but it's pointless to talk since they are Rafidhas and Nusaryri supporters who have their obsession with ignoring and making excuses.


Why them, why not some Iranians.


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## mahatir

MooshMoosh said:


> Coming from someone who support the tyrant and the child murdering gangs in Syria, supporting the ultra sectarian gangs in Iraq who exports their second largest militias to Syria for hunting innocents, supporting the Iranian stooges of Iraq, comparing Saddam over the government today is a big difference and making excuses in order to avoid the subject which is mostly about Iraq since you saw the crimes in Syria on the other thread but an ignorant, criminal supporter and rather post nonsense than watching the crimes of the child murdering gangs. Pretty sure others particularly Hasani and Blackeagle repeated this all the time to the types like you but it's pointless to reply since they are Rafidhas and Nusaryri child butchering supporters who have their obsession with ignoring and making excuses only to avoid the subject.


 
Syria has been somalized , do not worry no one will benefit from Syria be it Iran or Turkey or your beloved alquada thugs .

As for Egypt forget about it , the deep state in Egypt is too strong to be broken , the only way to break it is through forgein invasion by USA and Nato , other than that forget about change.



Frogman said:


> It seems the actions of an ottoman Khalif in the 17th or whatever century has changed your thinking forever. Have you actually ever met a Shia person? I have met plenty due to the UK's immigration and asylum rules and they are no different from Sunnis or other religious types, they even pray in the same mosques most of the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, unintelligible. You stated specifically All I have said is that is not possible since we don't have a prison system or the resources to continually imprison thousands or even hundreds of people everyday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did I deny that Syrians were being mistreated in Egypt? No. What I'm doing is questioning whether these reports reflect the overall how Syrians are being treated in Egypt. No one said this is acceptable.
> 
> 
> 
> In the coming days..... It is now December. If you think the Middle East Monitor and a retired (for whatever reason) General pandering for his fifteen minutes of fame on twitter when he has no connection whatsoever to the high command are legit sources then I have news for you......
> 
> 
> 
> You obviously did otherwise you wouldn't have used him as an example.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, its a military regime, did you expect otherwise?
> 
> The MB wasn't going to leave the media alone was it now? all this talk of purification and cleansing meant something else it meant bringing all media channels and stations on side. The two are no better than each other.
> 
> 
> 
> If you had the ability to interpret (or even read) my posts you would know otherwise.
> 
> If you thought the trial was set up so a few journalists could shout then you are very theatrical my friend. You should ask yourself who began the shouting? Because it was those in the cage not those beyond it.
> 
> 
> 
> It's in the same hands as those who influenced the last one. There's no major difference between the constitution which is due for referendum in January and that of the Brotherhoods regime. The only difference is that entire segments of society haven't abandoned the committee set up to rewrite it. It's up for referendum you are free of course to go vote no or not participate at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Example of what? You said there was no insurgency. Your examples are weeks if not months old.
> 
> 
> 
> This implies that an insurgency hasn't already started. It has and is being crushed both in the Sinai (in which it had a foothold) and in the rest of Egypt.
> 
> Yes, you are and its not funny. You still think the MB and Morsi will return to power violently or otherwise when they have no chance in hell of doing so.
> 
> There's no point starting all over again with me because you didn't achieve anything. Even the simplest of things such as proving the death toll was beyond what the health ministry stated is impossible for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Economics wise the current government actually has a plan unlike the previous one. Their plan is to increase funding in infrastructure and other developments while incurring the debts, however, the growth provided by these investments should be enough to sustain the economy until stability can be achieved. Its certainly better than waiting for an IMF loan and then beginning massive round of austerity such as cutting subsidies on goods and fuels which would have probably lead to Morsi being overthrown anyway. Look what happened when Saddat tried to remove subsidies.
> 
> 
> 
> Its not. However, the MB and their support have been reduced to nothingness. You are no longer capable of gathering large protests and therefore no longer capable of influencing public opinion within Egypt. For now you are a spent force.
> 
> Who said I'm with the 'regime'....
> 
> Nice, the Qatari regime mouth piece.
> 
> 
> 
> Because the security forces are overstretched. The army's actual presence overall in the country is miniscule given its size over 420 thousand standing, another 400,000 thousand in reserve and over a million which can be called up. Add to that the insurgency in the Sinai is being squashed, militant groups are becoming extremely desperate relying on suicide bombings of logistics and support convoys or personnel and it doesn't look too rosy for your fantasy army. You don't have the weapons or the will power to do anything. By the way today was the start of "BADR 2013" and its the biggest its ever been.
> 
> 
> 
> And you're a liberal democrat (sarcasm).


 
You heard Sissi latest comment , he said the Egyptian Army troops used in streets are actually a small fraction of total Egyptian army and those are the reserves kept in camps , not even the actual army.

we ba3deen fe far2 kibeer ma been el fawda wel 7oriya , burning cars , buildings and attacking shops cannot be regarded as peaceful protests.

The government now does not tolerate such barbaric behaviour , its just the past 2 years the police was quite until normal citizens start calling the state to take action against the barbarity of the so called Islamist protestors and the crazy communist left.

The protest law recently enacted in Egypt is nothing new , even European countries have similar laws , no one can just carry out a protest without notifying the state , bring back organization , law and order is not authoritarian .

Again el motazahreen el 7elween elly fe masr 7aga we masalan el motazahreen el mozzaz fe Europe 7aga Tanya , elly fe masr a3'labhom nas sha3'aleen bel yomeya, mortazaka ya3ny .


----------



## mahatir

Doritos11 said:


> Like Saddam, I agree.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats what you do.
> 
> 
> 
> Foreigners opinion, irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
> Repeating al gayzeera propaganda does not make me respond to it, you want to worship the fat Qatari ? don't force others.
> 
> 
> Why them, why not some Iranians.


 
What Egypt and Iraq share in common both countries are tying to be neutral and fix their internal problems.

you have a point to be angry , its understandable.

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## Frogman

> You heard Sissi latest comment , he said the Egyptian Army troops used in streets are actually a small fraction of total Egyptian army and those are the reserves kept in camps , not even the actual army.



It's true. The majority of troops are still in their barracks training or are otherwise occupied in the Sinai.



> we ba3deen fe far2 kibeer ma been el fawda wel 7oriya , burning cars , buildings and attacking shops cannot be regarded as peaceful protests.



Of course not. But we can't act like there's not a large number of protests that go ahead peacefully and in some cases the security forces do instigate the violence. 



> The government now does not tolerate such barbaric behaviour , its just the past 2 years the police was quite until normal citizens start calling the state to take action against the barbarity of the so called Islamist protestors and the crazy communist left.



The security forces weren't quite on purpose. They were overstretched and undermanned still hurting from the Jan 2011 revolution. They only really started to return under Morsi as the government was being pressured into providing security for ordinary people plus it needed to protect itself.



> The protest law recently enacted in Egypt is nothing new , even European countries have similar laws , no one can just carry out a protest without notifying the state , bring back organization , law and order is not authoritarian .



The option whether or not to allow protests to happen is authoritarian. Plus the ways in which demonstration are allowed to be cleared and the sentences that can be dished are quite excessive. The essence of the idea was sound, however, what its lacking is nuance and execution.



> Again el motazahreen el 7elween elly fe masr 7aga we masalan el motazahreen el mozzaz fe Europe 7aga Tanya , elly fe masr a3'labhom nas sha3'aleen bel yomeya, mortazaka ya3ny .



European protesters aren't as nice as some might think  Ive been to a few gnarly protests here in the UK but nothing compared to that of Spain or Greece.


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## mahatir

Frogman said:


> It's true. The majority of troops are still in their barracks training or are otherwise occupied in the Sinai.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not. But we can't act like there's not a large number of protests that go ahead peacefully and in some cases the security forces do instigate the violence.
> 
> 
> 
> The security forces weren't quite on purpose. They were overstretched and undermanned still hurting from the Jan 2011 revolution. They only really started to return under Morsi as the government was being pressured into providing security for ordinary people plus it needed to protect itself.
> 
> 
> 
> The option whether or not to allow protests to happen is authoritarian. Plus the ways in which demonstration are allowed to be cleared and the sentences that can be dished are quite excessive. The essence of the idea was sound, however, what its lacking is nuance and execution.
> 
> 
> 
> European protesters aren't as nice as some might think  Ive been to a few gnarly protests here in the UK but nothing compared to that of Spain or Greece.


 
well you know Egypt is in transition from dictatorship to democracy , it will take atleast a decade so we should not expect security forces to deal with protestors the same way that happens in the west . To be more specific I mean Islamist protestors who think the rest of society are a bunch of infidels who should be killed.

I read American protest law , in the usa you need liscence before protesting from police station , there is nothing authoritarian in this especially that the law allows the protest organizers to appeal in court against police decision.

Remember you have the right to protest but at the same time normal citizens have the right to get to work to without being delayed , el moshkela enaha 7ata mozahrat tafha , yareet 3ayzeen 7aga 3edla.


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## hussain0216

nirreich said:


> Egypt, the most important Arab country, is in shambles and makes a litmus case for the entire Arab civilisation and its clossal failure to handle the challenges of the 21st Century.


 
Their idiots, the deep state and the shambolic military and monarchy based regimes in the middle east have held back the arab countries for decades.

Egypt has a revoloution, even if some people didnt like the M.B they should have respected democracy and pushed for the better organisation of the political parties that reflected their values.

They should have pushed for checks and balances and held the goverment to account,

But in collusion with the same deep state, the same military who has ruled them for decades was retarded


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## Ceylal

@Moosh Moosh,
I am referring to the one who built Al Azhar!


----------



## islamrules

mahatir said:


> Imagine when you have people who believe in 72 virgins



so u r not muslim then, good to know 

@MooshMoosh
FJP page on facebook claimed Pissi has been shot, how accurate is that ? when's the last time he appeared ?


----------



## MooshMoosh

islamrules said:


> MooshMoosh
> FJP page on facebook claimed Pissi has been shot, how accurate is that ? when's the last time he appeared ?



I don't think so, he is not someone in street. Didn't read any updates similiar to what you mentioned. It would be on the mainstream and I'm not sure, appeared shortly after the massacres and R4BA gestures went viral and pretty much now we can notice recently the ministers are handling the media. Time will tell.


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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> so u r not muslim then, good to know
> 
> @MooshMoosh
> FJP page on facebook claimed Pissi has been shot, how accurate is that ? when's the last time he appeared ?



Last appearance was two days ago. Video from the Official Military Spokesman's page




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=405962172868104


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## Ceylal

Moosh Moosh is not going to like it...

Sissi for Person of the year?






From a poll

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## Frogman

Ceylal said:


> Moosh Moosh is not going to like it...
> 
> Sissi for Person of the year?



I personally voted for Edward Snowden for Time's Person of the Year and believe he should get the award. Its still up to the editors of the magazine as to who will/should actually win though.

What this poll did show though is the amount of support Elsisi has in Egypt (and elsewhere). Its also remarkable how a nation of 85 million people with almost 37 million internet users (according to wiki) beat both the Americans and the Indians in the total number of votes cast when they have hundreds of millions of people online. The MB's claims that they are supported by the majority of Egyptian society continue to be debunked.

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## islamrules

@Frogman 
this post is strange, proves Pissi is in danger


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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> @Frogman
> this post is strange, proves Pissi is in danger



It's a fake Fb page and one that's probably being run by a 12 year old. The only Fb page which represents the MOD is the Official Military Spokesman's page.

This is it ‫الصفحة الرسمية للمتحدث العسكري للقوات المسلحة | Facebook‬


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## Ceylal

@Frogman 
There is a big difference between Snowden action and that of Sissi...Sissi saved a nation of 87 m soul from radical Islam hell...

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## mahatir

Ceylal said:


> @Frogman
> There is a big difference between Snowden action and that of Sissi...Sissi saved a nation of 87 m soul from radical Islam hell...


 
How is Algerian/Egyptian relations , its needed for stable Libya , hope both countries can improve ties .


----------



## Frogman

mahatir said:


> How is Algerian/Egyptian relations , its needed for stable Libya , hope both countries can improve ties .



Apart from low level trade and military cooperation (talking extremely low level here) the relationship between both countries is almost dead thanks to Mubaraks foreign policies. Personally, I would like to see an unofficial military union between Algeria, Egypt, Libya, and Morocco which comprises of all these nations border forces so we can pool all our resources and assets to ensure joint border security.


----------



## Ceylal

mahatir said:


> How is Algerian/Egyptian relations , its needed for stable Libya , hope both countries can improve ties .


We have no problems with Egypt. The one and his sons, who started the arm wrestling are gone..We can't break centuries old ties with a country, because of a soccer game...
For Libya, the devil is out of the bottle, it is going to be hard to put it back in...The one who broke Libya, will do everything to keep it that way..What we are witnessing now is a new form of colonisation, to redraw a new map of the middle east and Africa..Decade before it was the Europeans countries that were dismantled, ie Yougoslavia,czechoslovakia , the caucasus etc.. In the seven borders that we share, all of them are unstable..


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## mahatir

Ceylal said:


> We have no problems with Egypt. The one and his sons, who started the arm wrestling are gone..We can't break centuries old ties with a country, because of a soccer game...
> For Libya, the devil is out of the bottle, it is going to be hard to put it back in...The one who broke Libya, will do everything to keep it that way..What we are witnessing now is a new form of colonisation, to redraw a new map of the middle east and Africa..Decade before it was the Europeans countries that were dismantled, ie Yougoslavia,czechoslovakia , the caucasus etc.. In the seven borders that we share, all of them are unstable..


 
Yeah to much shit going around it would take decades to put it down again.



mahatir said:


> How is Algerian/Egyptian relations , its needed for stable Libya , hope both countries can improve ties .


 


Frogman said:


> Apart from low level trade and military cooperation (talking extremely low level here) the relationship between both countries is almost dead thanks to Mubaraks foreign policies. Personally, I would like to see an unofficial military union between Algeria, Egypt, Libya, and Morocco which comprises of all these nations border forces so we can pool all our resources and assets to ensure joint border security.


 
its not only Egypt, most Arab countries do not have strong relations among each other apart from the gulf , lack of strategic thinking and a common cause to unite countries whether economic or political is the main reason for this current weak situation.


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## Ceylal

Egyptian forces capture a dangerous takfiri in the sinai.


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## Frogman

Ceylal said:


> Egyptian forces capture a dangerous takfiri in the sinai.



Whats with the picture from 1991?


----------



## Ceylal

Frogman said:


> Whats with the picture from 1991?


Took it from the Algerian Arabic newspaper Echorouk...Arabist are not picky on accuracy...

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## Ceylal

Sissy eying the Presidency?
[video]



[/video]


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## Falcon29

Hopefully he does make that mistake, because that would mean his end. Both sides are equally misguided.

And if Sisi is not the solution for the Egyptian people then the next few years will be disaster since Egyptians won't know what's good for them as they've tasted all forms of government.

The Egyptian economy btw is terrible, it's need decades to get in somewhat shape. I've seen it in my own eyes, I've had many people beg to me for less than a dollar trying to pass tea around and people sitting in the sun selling almonds. Every time I go to Egypt I want to cry over people there. They are facing a difficult situation with lots of poverty.

Social class in Egypt makes it even worse. I hope GCC people and supports here don't exploit this situation. Truth is people aren't concerned for the common Egyptian man.

All these efforts by the US, Israel, and GCC is to preserve the military regime and make sure it completes several important objectives...Gaza border/tunnels, Camp David treaty, Suez Canal, isolating Iran somewhat, ...etc...


----------



## Devil Soul

*Sisi ... Proceed To Deliverance*

EGYPT is waiting for a caller to announce the new dawn to dispel its woes. It is being called to conduct a constitutional referendum that will force its way to the future, without the sounds of crows over its skies; waiting for the one who vowed to be in its service in order not to disappoint the views of millions. Yesterday, the Egyptians placed their bet on the military and they won. Today, they pinned their hopes again on the military chief who always stands by their side; so he could navigate the country to safe land. This is exactly what happened on June 30 last year when he rescued them by standing up to face the small tyrant who was surrounded by a bigger one; staying at the terrorist guidance office while ridiculing the Egyptians, the Arabs and the world.

Egypt is now looking at Abdulfattah Al-Sisi who responded when we interviewed him about nominating himself for presidency, ‘’Every event has its time’’. Now, Egypt is saying, “It is time for you to speak.’’ In the interview, we did not feel hesitation in his tone. In fact, it was a well-informed tone about the level of challenges that will befall whoever takes up the toughest job in this sensitive period, in which there is no place for risks or division. The national unity has been ‘baptized’ with blood and the lieutenant general does not want to transform it into division that will take away its fortune.

Throughout the last months, the Commander-in-Chief of Egypt’s Armed Forces fully prepared himself for the restoration of order. He remained committed to his military oath to defend his country, putting the interest of the nation first in all his endeavors. This is why the Arabs said in the past, ‘’Hard work pays off’.” Al-Sisi deserves the pay off for being the obedient child of his people and the defending soldier of his people; but this time, it is in the trench of the country’s presidency. He wants to meet the expectations and to realize the wishes of tens of millions who pinned their hopes on the military, and especially on him.

On the eve of the referendum, several options appeared. Egypt is eager to get out of the terrorist pinwheel of the ‘Brotherhood’ and to fix whatever the group had destroyed. It is eager to recover from the enormous pain caused by the Brotherhood. If not for Allah and the revolution of its people through the help of the military, the Brotherhood would have wreaked havoc in Egypt. The group would have extended its destructive acts to the Arab and Muslim worlds. Today, the land of the Canaanites needs a doctor who will not only lessen its pain, but also cure the root causes of diseases; in addition to supervising the recuperation period so it emerges completely healed. This is what the Egyptians are telling their minister of defense, asking him to fulfill his national duty.

General Abdulfattah Al-Sisi, who said he will not run for the presidency of the Republic of Egypt unless demanded by the people and authorized by the military, is being called upon by his people even before the Arab and Muslim countries, especially the Gulf nations, to nominate himself for presidency in order to rescue the biggest nation in the Arab world and to restore stability, which the Arab world will depend on. Perhaps, it is clear who will be the next president of Egypt. Therefore, it is up to the Egyptians, headed by General Abdulfattah Al-Sisi, to start building the nation; not only to fix what was destroyed by the Brotherhood. They have to execute development programs, which were halted due to the dominance of the destructive group in Egypt for the past three years. 

The implementation of these development programs may start through the amendment of laws and provision of investment guarantees in Egypt. The country needs investors’ confidence, more than its need for aid. From there, people will start pouring money into Egypt, especially if there are laws which respect international agreements and settle their worries. Today, Egypt is opening its arms for Al-Sisi to return what the ‘Brotherhood’ violently stole within a period of time. The Egyptians have placed their bet on the general to be their president and leader. They will then say repeatedly behind their new caller: “Proceed to deliverance’’.

*Email:* ahmed@aljarallah.com 

*By Ahmed Al-Jarallah
Editor-in-Chief, the Arab Times*

*By: Ahmed Al-Jarallah
Sisi ... proceed to deliverance*


----------



## Mahmoud_EGY

Egyptians Vote on New Constitution in Referendum


----------



## Ceylal




----------



## Mahmoud_EGY

*Third blast in Cairo after bombs at police HQ, subway kill 5 & injure dozens*
Three blasts hit Cairo on Friday, targeting police HQ, a metro station and a police station. They apparent string of militant attacks claimed at least five people and injured scores of others.

The latest explosion was reported near a police station in the suburbs of the Egyptian capital. The explosion, in the west Cairo Talebiya district on the main road leading to the Giza pyramids, caused no fatalities.

Minutes earlier a blast killed at least one person and injured 15 near the Behooth subway station. State TV reported that it was caused by a crude explosive device.

But a conflicting report said the blast happened in a drive-by attack on security vehicles, in which the attacker threw a hand grenade.

The early morning blast on the police headquarters in Cairo was the highest profile attack on security forces in months. It was carried out by a suicide bomber in an explosive-laden car, which detonated in front of the building.

The Friday morning explosion at the Cairo Security Directorate left four people dead and injured 73 others, according to the Health Ministry.

Pictures from the scene show damaged fronts of several buildings in Port Said street, including the police headquarters and the famous Museum of Islamic Art..

Witnesses reported injured people being dragged out of the damaged building and transferred into ambulances.

The body of the suspected suicide bomber, who apparently drove the car to the building, was found.

The blast was powerful enough to be heard from kilometers away in all directions. It also sent a large plume of black smoke into the sky.

_"Casualties were relatively small given the size of the blast,"_ said Interior Ministry spokesman Hany Abdel Latif.

There were also reports of machine gun fire in the area following the explosion, indicating a likely militant attack. Witnesses said they saw gunmen on motorbikes shooting at the police HQ just after the bomb went off.

Egyptian state TV showed a crowd standing in front of the HQ building in the wake of the blast, chanting _“people demand the execution of the Muslim Brotherhood.”_

Egyptian security troops and army soldiers have been facing regular militant attacks since July 2013, when a military coup deposed Islamist President Mohamed Morsi.

There have been at least three bomb attacks in the last weeks in the country, including a suicide coming at a police compound in Mansoura, north of Cairo, which killed 15 people.

_“We don’t know who is behind these bombings, but it seems likely that they are part of a pattern of bombings carried out by jihadist militants with links to the war, which is raging in the Sinai. And the message to the Egyptian government is: ‘We do not accept your constitution, we do not accept your government, we see them as traitors and we want to bring the whole house crashing down,’”_ Cairo-based journalist Hugh Miles told RT.

The attack on police HQ on Friday and the second blast come less than a week after Egyptians approved a new constitution, despite a vote boycott by Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood, which was outlawed after the coup.

The Brotherhood was planning a massive protest after Friday prayers across the country, the largest in a series of similar events.

The bombings raise new concerns over security during the upcoming anniversary celebrations of the 2011 revolution, which ousted Egypt’s long-time ruler Hosni Mubarak. The Interior Ministry pledged to protect the Saturday celebration.
Third blast in Cairo after bombs at police HQ, subway kill 5 & injure dozens — RT News


----------



## Informant

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> *Third blast in Cairo after bombs at police HQ, subway kill 5 & injure dozens*
> Three blasts hit Cairo on Friday, targeting police HQ, a metro station and a police station. They apparent string of militant attacks claimed at least five people and injured scores of others.
> 
> The latest explosion was reported near a police station in the suburbs of the Egyptian capital. The explosion, in the west Cairo Talebiya district on the main road leading to the Giza pyramids, caused no fatalities.
> 
> Minutes earlier a blast killed at least one person and injured 15 near the Behooth subway station. State TV reported that it was caused by a crude explosive device.
> 
> But a conflicting report said the blast happened in a drive-by attack on security vehicles, in which the attacker threw a hand grenade.
> 
> The early morning blast on the police headquarters in Cairo was the highest profile attack on security forces in months. It was carried out by a suicide bomber in an explosive-laden car, which detonated in front of the building.
> 
> The Friday morning explosion at the Cairo Security Directorate left four people dead and injured 73 others, according to the Health Ministry.
> 
> Pictures from the scene show damaged fronts of several buildings in Port Said street, including the police headquarters and the famous Museum of Islamic Art..
> 
> Witnesses reported injured people being dragged out of the damaged building and transferred into ambulances.
> 
> The body of the suspected suicide bomber, who apparently drove the car to the building, was found.
> 
> The blast was powerful enough to be heard from kilometers away in all directions. It also sent a large plume of black smoke into the sky.
> 
> _"Casualties were relatively small given the size of the blast,"_ said Interior Ministry spokesman Hany Abdel Latif.
> 
> There were also reports of machine gun fire in the area following the explosion, indicating a likely militant attack. Witnesses said they saw gunmen on motorbikes shooting at the police HQ just after the bomb went off.
> 
> Egyptian state TV showed a crowd standing in front of the HQ building in the wake of the blast, chanting _“people demand the execution of the Muslim Brotherhood.”_
> 
> Egyptian security troops and army soldiers have been facing regular militant attacks since July 2013, when a military coup deposed Islamist President Mohamed Morsi.
> 
> There have been at least three bomb attacks in the last weeks in the country, including a suicide coming at a police compound in Mansoura, north of Cairo, which killed 15 people.
> 
> _“We don’t know who is behind these bombings, but it seems likely that they are part of a pattern of bombings carried out by jihadist militants with links to the war, which is raging in the Sinai. And the message to the Egyptian government is: ‘We do not accept your constitution, we do not accept your government, we see them as traitors and we want to bring the whole house crashing down,’”_ Cairo-based journalist Hugh Miles told RT.
> 
> The attack on police HQ on Friday and the second blast come less than a week after Egyptians approved a new constitution, despite a vote boycott by Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood, which was outlawed after the coup.
> 
> The Brotherhood was planning a massive protest after Friday prayers across the country, the largest in a series of similar events.
> 
> The bombings raise new concerns over security during the upcoming anniversary celebrations of the 2011 revolution, which ousted Egypt’s long-time ruler Hosni Mubarak. The Interior Ministry pledged to protect the Saturday celebration.
> Third blast in Cairo after bombs at police HQ, subway kill 5 & injure dozens — RT News



Welcome to hell, justified by Islam and amplified by a ridiculous execution of a coup.


----------



## Mahmoud_EGY

Informant said:


> Welcome to hell, justified by Islam and amplified by a ridiculous execution of a coup.


Egypt will win in the end be sure of that


----------



## Shah9

Looks like the mess is beginning to be infested by takfiri militants from Sinai attempting to spread the chaos to the cities. This is like the 10th bombing since the coup, next mission will be car bombs + shootings.

No wonder why Al Fahd APC and Abrams are roaming in the streets. Better of using apaches, f16s and all those American made to turn Egypt to Syria 2.0


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## hussain0216

All bought on by the egyptians themselves

democracy was too hard, they wanted a coup, military dictatorship and warfare


----------



## Surenas

Photo of young university student shot in the head by security forces today in Alexandria (HIGHLY GRAPHIC):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeqwtdNCIAAegjb.jpg:large


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## Frogman

Surenas said:


> Photo of young university student shot in the head by Egyptian police today in Alexandria (HIGHLY GRAPHIC):
> 
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeqwtdNCIAAegjb.jpg:large



Source?


----------



## Surenas

Frogman said:


> Source?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/426425724530991105
Leah McElrath (leahmcelrath) on Twitter


----------



## Frogman

Surenas said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/426425724530991105
> Leah McElrath (leahmcelrath) on Twitter



Twitter is not a source.

Also looking on Leah McElrath's feed...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/426445126462738432


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## Surenas

Frogman said:


> Twitter is not a source.



Yes, it is. The question is whether you find it reliable enough.


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## Frogman

Surenas said:


> Yes, it is. The question is whether you find it reliable enough.



My bad, but it certainly isn't reliable enough. Any primary or secondary sources or confirmation from the health ministry/student faculty?

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## Shah9

Surenas said:


> Photo of young university student shot in the head by security forces today in Alexandria (HIGHLY GRAPHIC):


Ouch. I have seen loads of headshot images shot by the Egyptian security forces or army. Not sure what's the difference now since both are assisting each other but one hella huge *** caliber penetrated through brains and even eyes.

I'm not able to post links until I reach 30 posts but what can I say after the coup? There are army forces on roads with their hostility toward civilians and jihadi takfirist on the other side does car bombings to destabilize Egypt.

And oops the irony of the army claims to be superpower of the Middle East when they can't even beat beduuns in Sinai now. Bouteflika and his army must be laughing at egypt now.

What a mess the country is while GCC regimes sending $12b McDonald meals to Abdul Fetteh

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## Surenas

Frogman said:


> My bad, but it certainly isn't reliable enough. Any primary or secondary sources or confirmation from the health ministry/student faculty?



Here you go:

Update: 15 MB students arrested in Alexandria after fatal clashes | Mada Masr

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## Ceylal

Kolana ma3a eldjaich el misri, dhalimoon aw modhlimoon!

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## Falcon29




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## Ceylal

Egypt: 3 years after the revolution
in the bubble
the situation is yet to be defused (desamorsi, Algerian dialect)


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## Ceylal

Shah9 said:


> And oops the irony of the army claims to be superpower of the Middle East when they can't even beat beduuns in Sinai now. *Bouteflika and his army must be laughing at egypt now.*


*
*
When we were between the anvil and the deep sea, we were used as " lab" for their regime, and labelled Algerian as undesirable by enacting strong visa requirements for our citizens save Tunisia, that was our only breathing window for us while they were helping financially with political support the Muslim fundamentalists, they followed France of Mitterand and later Lionel Jospin and Clinton US by enforcing an embargo. Only the UAE managed to order and transhipped defense equipment destined to her re-routed to Algeria.
All the Arab states, toed the line that was dictated by the west. We didn't expect Moubarek to be that calice after all what we have done for his country.
They forgot that our history was based on war! Mubarek used to use Algeria as topic to further his political agenda while selling Egypt to the West to stay in power! Moubarek forgot, the country he was demonizing, was the only country that sayed with Egypt thru thick and thin during the the Israeli-Arab war, and if it wasn't for the Algerians in their entirety and their army, Egyptian will be speaking hebrew right now!
For us to laugh at Egyptians or at Egypt in their time of difficulties is just immoral, and it is not in our character, we feel for them.
We lived what they began to fear the most, and we hope that they find a time of clarity to reconsider taking the road of no return.



> What a mess the country is while GCC regimes sending $12b McDonald meals to Abdul Fetteh



GCC promisses a lot and delivers a little and there is no country that understands that better than Egypt..[/quote]

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## Alshawi1234

[quote="Ceylal, post: 5178095, member: 143815"




Kolana ma3a eldjaich el misri, dhalimoon aw modhlimoon![/quote]
I wouldn't agree with the "dhamilmoon" part, but no doubt that what's happening now is a result of the foolishness of the MB. They have no one to blame but themselves.

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## Alshawi1234

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> *Third blast in Cairo after bombs at police HQ, subway kill 5 & injure dozens*
> Third blast in Cairo after bombs at police HQ, subway kill 5 & injure dozens — RT News



This war against a bunch of coward terrorists can never be own alone. There needs to be international or atleast regional coooperation. 


Fighting off terrorists by force alone won't do good. 
Cutting funds, media eat against terrorism, and most importantly cutting the snakes head off is the only way to succeed in this war. No country can do it alone simply because the terrorist networks are spread in different countries, Libya, Iraq, Syria, Yemen are all hotbeds for these cells, they will all continue to grow unless the entire region starts to cooperation.

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## Falcon29

Alshawi1234 said:


> This war against a bunch of coward terrorists can never be own alone. There needs to be international or atleast regional coooperation.
> 
> 
> Fighting off terrorists by force alone won't do good.
> Cutting funds, media eat against terrorism, and most importantly cutting the snakes head off is the only way to succeed in this war. No country can do it alone simply because the terrorist networks are spread in different countries, Libya, Iraq, Syria, Yemen are all hotbeds for these cells, they will all continue to grow unless the entire region starts to cooperation.



What happened in Egypt has ZERO to do with MB and has to do with Sinai small militant group which consists of Egyptian bedioun tribes which were abandoned by the government and since then conflicted with each other. Do you not understand that or what?


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## GTR66

Hazzy997 said:


> What happened in Egypt has ZERO to do with MB and has to do with Sinai small militant group which consists of Egyptian bedioun tribes which were abandoned by the government and since then conflicted with each other. Do you not understand that or what?


The bombing in Egypt was done by Ansar Bayt Masqsidi which is part of the Al Qaeda who claimed to infiltrate the capital. It's just the beginning.

This is interesting. Blowback in Cairo


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## Falcon29

GTR66 said:


> The bombing in Egypt was done by Ansar Bayt Masqsidi which is part of the Al Qaeda who claimed to infiltrate the capital. It's just the beginning.
> 
> This is interesting. Blowback in Cairo



No it isn't part of Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda is just an inspiration. Ansar Beit maqdas is made of of a couple to few hundred people from bedioun tribes mostly in the Sinai. I know this better than you and I've been to the Sinai and the government is resented for abandoning the people yet when the people facilitate their own source of revenue the government arrests their family members and this resulted in an conflict there.

Also, I don't completely believe they're behind it because it feeds people like you. I'm suspecting the Mossad or Egyptian hit men hired to do this to make it appear as if the government is fighting terrorism when in reality it isn't and it is committing many human rights violations. A recent amnesty report stated this recently:

Amnesty slams Egypt on rights, government attacks 'distorted picture'| Reuters

However, even if this group is at conflict with security forces that gunned down thousands of innocent Egyptians killing them in one day then this is something they set up for themselves. If Sisi thinks he can go around harassing half of the population and killing tribals in the Sinai and arresting and killing people who have MB membership then he reaps what he sows and hopefully the next one gets rid of this terrorist asshole.


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## hussain0216

Egypt is stupid they bought this on themselves

You can't dispose of a legitimate government kill thousands of its supporters and then expect them to sit back and take it


all this chaos is a necessary

Only a Egypt under severe economic stress will break the hold of the military and secular haramiis


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## Ceylal

*A deadly attacks wave shakes Cairo*







_Correspondent in Cairo_

Pharmacy Abdel el-Waheb Rewani, there remains a mountain of debris. Son hanged electrical, ceiling were torn by the blast."I slept in the back room. Suddenly I heard a loud "boom". I immediately raised: it is as if a bulldozer had been there. I went out into the street. There was a huge cloud of smoke.People shooting in the air. It was chaos, "said still rang the doctor 27 years.

It is 6 pm 30 am when, on Friday, a huge explosion shook the city of Cairo, felt even on the other side of the Nile. Never the Egyptian capital had experienced a brutal awakening. The attackers did not miss their target: the imposing gray building of the security management, now transformed into a pitiful skeleton of concrete and steel. According to the Ministry of Health, six people were killed and hundreds were injured. Three other explosions occurred in the morning and late in the day, in the neighborhood of Dokki and an avenue leading to the Pyramids of Giza, have killed at least one person.

The damage caused by the first attack are impressive: the blast dug a deep crater in the road and damaged the facade of the Museum of Islamic Art, opposite. Around all the windows of the shops, the pharmacy Abdel Waheb were blown.

Sissi to protect us! "shouts Hani Zakri, fifties, brandishing the portrait of the new strong man of the country since the ousting of Islamist president, Mohammed Morsi , last July, a band repression tirelessly against the Muslim Brotherhood . "The people demand the execution of all the Brothers!" Intones a small group by attributing all evil to the Brotherhood, even if the attack was claimed by a splinter group of Sinai inspired 'to al-Qaida and who benefits from the current instability to act.

The wave of attacks was claimed by Ansar Bayt al Maqdis, a jihadist group Sinai linked to al Qaeda.Clearly, the authors wanted to attacks hit hard by violently shaking the capital on the eve of the anniversary of the Egyptian revolution. In parallel, the day on Friday was punctuated by events organized by the anti-Worth Alliance, headed by the Muslim Brotherhood, which called for 18 days of rallies - the length of the revolt that led to the departure of Mubarak .

According to a spokesman of the Brotherhood, six new protesters are killed by the bullets of the security forces. A spiral of violence that worries organizations defending human rights. "The Egypttook over the management of worsening repression and further clashes, "says the latest report from Amnesty International.









Troisième anniversaire de la révolution égyptienne: portraits croisés des acteurs qui convoitent la plus belle part du gâteau
Egyptian Presidents past and present.

AMER




NASSER




SADAT




MUBAREK





MORSI


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## Ceylal

MUBAREK's shadow is strong as ever over Egypt


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## islamrules

there is two kinds of Egyptians,


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## Frogman

islamrules said:


> there is two kinds of Egyptians,



Without the first the second would still be fighting Zionist occupation.

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## Ceylal

MB's at their best!


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## Ceylal

With 38.9% of the population participating in the referendum...Is it enough for Sissi to stymie the MB's push back?

Egyptian revolution, 3 years after!


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## Falcon29

What does MB have anything to do with a car bomb near a police checkpoint which killed 5 Egyptian security members? A group already claimed responsibility and this goes back before 2012. 

Where are you posting pictures when a thousand protesters are killed in one day?


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## Ceylal

Hazzy997 said:


> What does MB have anything to do with a car bomb near a police checkpoint which killed 5 Egyptian security members? A group already claimed responsibility and this goes back before 2012.


Are you trying to convince us that the MB are Buddhas?

Where are you posting pictures when a thousand protesters are killed in one day?[/quote]
Sorely needed...MB are violent! Political Islam is violent! Violence is the only thing they understand...You can't get rid off grass burr from your lawn unless you use the proper insecticide...The Egyptian army sold to the MB the ingredients they came to purchase.


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## Falcon29

Ceylal said:


> Are you trying to convince us that the MB are Buddhas?
> 
> Where are you posting pictures when a thousand protesters are killed in one day?


Sorely needed...MB are violent! Political Islam is violent! Violence is the only thing they understand...You can't get rid off grass burr from your lawn unless you use the proper insecticide...The Egyptian army sold to the MB the ingredients they came to purchase.[/quote]

Oh yeah just scream your head off and yell 'violent'! This is why your kind always loses, dictator government will also lose. It's because all odds are against enemies of God. You can't succeed when you're deliberate liars. I'm done wasting my time with you anyways.


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## Ceylal

Hazzy997 said:


> Oh yeah just scream your head off and yell 'violent'! This is why your kind always loses, dictator government will also lose. It's because all odds are against enemies of God. You can't succeed when you're deliberate liars.


To whom we lost to?
Algeria is the largest country in Africa...We kept the integrity of her borders unmolested despite what has been thrown at us...
If Sissi and the Egyptian government since the have the Egyptian street support, follow the Algerian example on how we did away with radical Islam, Egypt will rise from her doldrums.
We are not the enemies of God, we didn't take his name in vane to advance a devilish agenda..God is with us, only you that don't know it..
So far we succeeded...


> I'm done wasting my time with you anyways


You are still angry..You need to get laid...man!


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## Falcon29

Ceylal said:


> To whom we lost to?
> Algeria is the largest country in Africa...We kept the integrity of her borders unmolested despite what has been thrown at us...
> If Sissi and the Egyptian government since the have the Egyptian street support, follow the Algerian example on how we did away with radical Islam, Egypt will rise from her doldrums.
> We are not the enemies of God, we didn't his name in vane to advance a devilish agenda..God is with us, only you that don't know it..
> So far we succeeded...
> 
> You are still angry..You need to get laid...man!



I'm married what's your issue?


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## Alshawi1234

Hazzy997 said:


> What happened in Egypt has ZERO to do with MB and has to do with Sinai small militant group which consists of Egyptian bedioun tribes which were abandoned by the government and since then conflicted with each other. Do you not understand that or what?



Being part of tribes and bombing the country doesn't make them non-terrorists. Ansar Bayt al Maqdis is linked to the ISIL. before the bombing in Egypt occurred some messages were intercepted in Iraq between terrorists in Iraq and Egypt. Iraq informed Egypt about that. about two weeks later an audio message for ISIL's leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was released inciting to attack security forces and government office in Egypt. From that day since not one day went without a minor terrorist incident. unfortunately these terrorists are trying to carry out more complex operations in order to maximize the damage and casualties.

They have no other cause than terrorism and destruction.

They are trying to Turn Egypt to another Iraq or Syria with the help of Qatar. Egypt does have an Advantage though. Qatar can't incite sectarianism because its a majority Sunni.


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## Ceylal

Hazzy997 said:


> I'm married what's your issue?


Then mabrook, the last time you mentioned you were a virgin and saving it to the marriage ..Then tap that @ss, it will help your blood pressure and stymie your anger.

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## Falcon29

Alshawi1234 said:


> Being part of tribes and bombing the country doesn't make them non-terrorists. Ansar Bayt al Maqdis is linked to the ISIL. before the bombing in Egypt occurred some messages were intercepted in Iraq between terrorists in Iraq and Egypt. Iraq informed Egypt about that. about two weeks later an audio message for ISIL's leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was released inciting to attack security forces and government office in Egypt. From that day since not one day went without a minor terrorist incident. unfortunately these terrorists are trying to carry out more complex operations in order to maximize the damage and casualties.
> 
> They have no other cause than terrorism and destruction.
> 
> They are trying to Turn Egypt to another Iraq or Syria with the help of Qatar. Egypt does have an Advantage though. Qatar can't incite sectarianism because its a majority Sunni.



No they aren't, you're only saying this because you're Shia and supportive of Assad regime but you know it's bs.



Ceylal said:


> Then mabrook, the last time you mentioned you were a virgin and saving it to the marriage ..Then tap that @ss, it will help your blood pressure and stymie your anger.



I'm joking you wild drunk, even when I get married I wouldn't mention that to you and have respect for yourself don't use derogatory language towards women لعنك اللة


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## Shah9

Hazzy997 said:


> No they aren't, you're only saying this because you're Shia and supportive of Assad regime but you know it's bs.


Zawahiri, Baghdadi and Adnani released an audio statement about Egypt and their violent advice to the people with assistance, each one of them. Latest is three days ago with Zawahiri support for Morsi.

Sissie may done the wrong thing in street and it would get worse with revenge bombings but those 3 terrorist leaders want j!had in Egypt which will be way worst with more causalities and damages etc.

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## hussain0216

Im not sure what option the muslims of Egypt have against the secular army, & goverment except to fight back

Otherwise the military will slaughter with impunity


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## Falcon29

Shah9 said:


> Zawahiri, Baghdadi and Adnani released an audio statement about Egypt and their violent advice to the people with assistance, each one of them. Latest is three days ago with Zawahiri support for Morsi.
> 
> Sissie may done the wrong thing in street and it would get worse with revenge bombings but those 3 terrorist leaders want j!had in Egypt which will be way worst with more causalities and damages etc.



Who cares about those three irrelavant people?


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## Doritos11

hussain0216 said:


> Im not sure what option the muslims of Egypt have against the secular army, & goverment except to fight back
> 
> Otherwise the military will slaughter with impunity



Maybe quit making trouble for no reason & build the economy


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## hussain0216

They did, they voted for a a goverment and president, and expected them to represent them in politics and governance


However, for the year their goverment was in Politics they were hounded and harassed and couldnt do their job, a corrupt military instigated a coup and have no destroyed the party that millions of people voted for and won every fair and free democratic election in egypts history.


why would or should they sit back, they havent chosen their leaders why would they listen to them.


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## Ceylal

Hazzy997 said:


> I'm joking you wild drunk, even when I get married I wouldn't mention that to you and have respect for yourself don't use derogatory language towards women لعنك اللة


 I love women..You in the other hand is a misogynistic pig.. like your MB's


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## Falcon29

Ceylal said:


> I love women..You in the other hand is a misogynistic pig.. like your MB's



No I'm not, I like women more than men for many reasons. However I respecf myself and will marry a beautiful woman when the time is right pretty soon. Now go enjoy your imaginary trailer trash woman wanna be player.

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## islamrules

Shah9 said:


> Zawahiri, Baghdadi and Adnani released an audio statement about Egypt and their violent advice to the people with assistance, each one of them. Latest is three days ago with Zawahiri support for Morsi.
> 
> Sissie may done the wrong thing in street and it would get worse with revenge bombings but those 3 terrorist leaders want j!had in Egypt which will be way worst with more causalities and damages etc.


Dr Zawahiri actualy adviced NOT to target Copts because :"our priority is fighting the western christian zionist alliance " he said, n because "the coptic church is losing ground n collapsing from the inside, bc they can't stop the conversions to islam "


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## Ceylal

Hazzy997 said:


> No I'm not, I like women more than men for many reasons. However I respecf myself and will marry a beautiful woman when the time is right pretty soon. Now go enjoy your *imaginary trailer trash woman* wanna be player.


Hey, those women have feeling too..


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## Devil Soul

*Gunmen kill senior Egyptian Interior Ministry Official*
REUTERS
Gunmen killed a senior Egyptian Interior Ministry official outside his home in Cairo. — File Photo
Published 2014-01-28 13:58:32
Gunmen killed a senior Egyptian Interior Ministry official outside his home in Cairo on Tuesday, security officials said.

“General Mohamed Saeed, head of the technical office of the minister of interior, was targeted by gunmen inside a car who shot him and fled,” said one of the officials.

Islamist militants have stepped up attacks on security forces since the army toppled president Mohamed Mursi of the Muslim Brotherhood in July.

The Interior Ministry confirmed Saeed's killing. He was an aide to Interior Minister Mohamed Ibrahim, who survived an assassination attempt last year.


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## islamrules




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## Shah9

^^


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## Ceylal




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## Doritos11

@Ceylal @Aeronaut

Your post thanked by Hasani while Hasani freely speaks about DNA, races, cuisine, food, berbers on the Syria thread ??
What’s this loose pro Saudi moderation.
Hypocrisy.



> You were banned for a very good reason.
> 
> Please explain what does 'camel piss' has to do with the Syrian thread?
> 
> The answer is - Nothing! - You won't be allowed to post there any longer, you have been engaged in attacking other nationalities in the past, we don't allow our members to be abused.
> 
> Best Regards.

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## Kompromat

Doritos11 said:


> @Ceylal @Aeronaut
> 
> Your post thanked by Hasani while Hasani freely speaks about DNA, races, cuisine, food, berbers on the Syria thread ??
> What’s this loose pro Saudi moderation.
> Hypocrisy.



Just report such posts, appropriate action will be taken.

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## Doritos11

Aeronaut said:


> Just report such posts, appropriate action *will* be taken.



Won’t be taken.

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## Kompromat

Doritos11 said:


> Won’t be taken.



That is not up to you. What is up to you is to point us to any forum violations.

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## Doritos11

Aeronaut said:


> That is not up to you. What is up to you is to point us to any forum violations.



So now that you banned Ceylal from the Syria thread for Camel piss content it would only be equal if you banned Hasani from that thread for his countless offtopic content.

That’s your job, if you don’t do it you shouldn’t be mod, either be a real mod or don’t be one, I see pro Saudi moderation here.

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## al-Hasani

@Doritos11

Stop crying and writing nonsense. I only write off-topic when I am replying your friends trolling. I have received infractions and been banned several times before so stop seeing ghosts. On the other hand Ceylal insults Arabs regularly but is never banned. Funny ah?

I often post videos, make long detailed posts about the conflict while you either rely on one-liners or posting videos from Iraq that has nothing to do with Syria or just writing just as much off-topic.

I have nothing to do with this decision nor have I even reported any posts of Ceylal when not insulting.

How about the moderators ban the obvious Iranian double users that are trolling the Syrian thread? Maybe you should concentrate on that instead.

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## Kompromat

Doritos11 said:


> So now that you banned Ceylal from the Syria thread for Camel piss content it would only be equal if you banned Hasani from that thread for his countless offtopic content.
> 
> That’s your job, if you don’t do it you shouldn’t be mod, either be a real mod or don’t be one, I see pro Saudi moderation here.



I think i have made myself crystal clear, what is there that is hard to understand in this regard?

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## Doritos11

Aeronaut said:


> I think i have made myself crystal clear, what is there that is hard to understand in this regard?



Saudis piss on the Iraqi armed forces thread trolling it you just deleted their post, I do it I get banned, Ceylal example, do I need to mention more.
Your not answering knowing i’m right, perhaps find a different mod or do your job.

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## Kompromat

Doritos11 said:


> So now that you banned Ceylal from the Syria thread for Camel piss content it would only be equal if you banned Hasani from that thread for his countless offtopic content.
> 
> That’s your job, if you don’t do it you shouldn’t be mod, either be a real mod or don’t be one, I see pro Saudi moderation here.



Here is a list of infractions, issued to Al-Hasni in the past. This is evidence enough that your allegations on defence.pk moderation team of 'pro saudi moderation' are ill founded and bogus. We don't moderate according to flags, that is our golden rule at this forum. If we treated people according to their flags, you won't see a single Indian or an Israeli on this website. Defence.pk believes in giving everyone a fair go, while strictly operating within our pre defined framework.

Best Regards.

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## Doritos11

Looks like infractions are *useless* then.

@al-Hasani
My offtopic and trolling doesn’t equal yours to even 10%.


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## al-Hasani

@Aeronaut

Many of those were even infractions to replies of users who did not even get any infractions for doing the same and most of them came when replying to double users who intentionally tried to provoke me and other Arab users knowing that they had nothing to lose since they would be banned immediately. Before that happened eventually.

Anyway let them cry. I am only replying in the same manner when people are trolling and I have never made a secret of that hence the infractions of the past.

You don't see me trolling in the Iranian section.

Ceylal has been trolling in every single thread that had the word Arab in it so when people are replying in the same manner to him then he has nothing to cry about.

@Doritos11 Keep writing nonsense and crying. All I see you doing is trolling in KSA threads. Just today you did it in 3 thread and now you are doing it here again.

Just look at your avatar. Clearly desperate to get attention from the Saudi Arabian users here.

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## Kompromat

Doritos11 said:


> Looks like infractions are useless then.
> 
> @al-Hasani
> My offtopic and trolling doesn’t equal yours to even 10%.




Infractions issued to channel the debate in the right direction, not to punish the members. 
Since we have introduced Thread Ban, feature we have reduced issuing infractions as issuing a thread ban is a more surgical way of keeping the debates on track.

Your question has been answered. Lets get back to the topic on this thread.

Best Regards.

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## Doritos11

Looks like infractions are *useless* then.

@Aeronaut
You didn’t think I deserved an infraction instead of a 2 week ban last time ?
I barely get infractions, again infractions are useless, 3 warning system if that would have been applied to Hasani he would have been long banned.
@al-Hasani
My offtopic and trolling doesn’t equal yours to even 10%


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## Kompromat

al-Hasani said:


> @Aeronaut
> 
> Many of those were even infractions to replies of users who did not even get any infractions for doing the same and most of them came when replying to double users who intentionally tried to provoke me and other Arab users knowing that they had nothing to lose since they would be banned immediately. Before that happened eventually.
> 
> Anyway let them cry. I am only replying in the same manner when people are trolling and I have never made a secret of that hence the infractions of the past.
> 
> You don't see me trolling in the Iranian section or their sections.
> 
> Ceylal has been trolling in every single thread that had the word Arab in it so when people are replying in the same manner to him then he has nothing to cry about.
> 
> @Doritos11 Keep writing nonsense and crying. All I see you doing is trolling in KSA threads. Just today you did it in 3 thread and now you are doing it here again.



Half or more infractions issued to you are from me. We don't care about flags when infractions are issued. PERIOD

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## Doritos11

Aeronaut said:


> Half or more infractions issued to you are from me. We don't care about flags when infractions are issued. PERIOD



You want some advice, turn the million useless infractions into a week ban like you did with me, more effective and fair.


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## al-Hasani

Aeronaut said:


> Half or more infractions issued to you are from me. We don't care about flags when infractions are issued. PERIOD



But let them see ghosts. Those 4-5 users are all the same. They are anti-KSA and want me banned because I often counter their nonsense with facts and because I reply in the same manner when they insult Arabs, Saudi Arabians or Muslims. For which I receive infractions for which is something I am well aware of but that's pretty common on this section and forum for all regular users, nearly. They don't like that. Hence the crying. If they stopped trolling in every thread that is about Arab issues or about KSA then that would not happen since you don't see me trolling the Iranian section. Very easy.

Anyway most of my debates are with the same 2-3 users and the Iranian double users that I have caught which the whole moderator team knows since I helped them catching those notorious trolls dozens of times.

The Webmaster himself admitted openly about the high number of trolls/double users from Iran so it is not something I am inventing here.

Anyway I think you already made it very clear so I am done here.

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## Kompromat

Doritos11 said:


> You want some advice, turn the million useless infractions into a week ban like you did with me, more effective and fair.



Infractions come with bans, its an automated system.


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## Doritos11

Aeronaut said:


> Infractions come with bans, its an automated system.



I got a 2 week ban for posting an off topic vid on the Saudi armed forces thread after they trolled our thread, Hasani day after day fills threads wih garbage and gets nothing especially today, let’s see if there will be some improvement on this loose moderation.


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## al-Hasani

@Aeronaut

Time to ban Doritos11 again since he seems to continue his trolling in several threads. Now the 4th today and he writes nothing else than useless one-liners and false accusations while doing the same things in heated debates. Trying to act all innocent. In the Syrian thread he never writes anything about Syria or makes any updates. Either useless one-liners or posting news from Iraq. Never seen any analysis from him. Just Syrian opposition = Al-Qaeda. That's all we see.

Just look at his avatar which is only an attempt of trolling too.

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## Kompromat

Doritos11 said:


> I got a 2 week ban for posting an off topic vid on the Saudi armed forces thread after they trolled our thread, Hasani day after day fills threads wih garbage and gets nothing especially today, let’s see if there will be some improvement on this loose moderation.




Stop making unfounded allegations, i just gave you a list of infractions issued to Al-Hasni. He has been banned in the past and will be banned in the future if he doesn't operate within the forum rules. Just report and wait.

No more debate on this in this thread. Back to topic


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## Doritos11

Hasani no need to defend yourself after each post of mine if your that assured of your innocence.
If better action will be taken we'll see 
back to topic.


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## Falcon29

Doritos11 said:


> Won’t be taken.



Behave yourself.


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## Doritos11

Hazzy997 said:


> Behave yourself.



Ok seyyidi.

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## Hussein

Aeronaut said:


> I think i have made myself crystal clear, what is there that is hard to understand in this regard?


you are not honest , and it is very clear.
don't be surprised people blame for injustice/difference of treatment

the last you can do is stop ban of Ceylal
or ban a lot of people for their words about genetics stupid stuff, insults of civilizations or "ethnics", call for hatred ... 

i experienced too in the past that some people saying persians are bastards ... reported and ignored totally.

you do whatever you want, that's your forum. but let us say this is highly unjust.

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## Falcon29

Hussein said:


> you are not honest , and it is very clear.
> don't be surprised people blame for injustice/difference of treatment
> 
> the last you can do is stop ban of Ceylal
> or ban a lot of people for their words about genetics stupid stuff, insults of civilizations or "ethnics", call for hatred ...
> 
> i experienced too in the past that some people saying persians are bastards ... reported and ignored totally.
> 
> you do whatever you want, that's your forum. but let us say this is highly unjust.



He's banned Hasani numerous times before this along with JUBA, MooshMoosh, I believe Arabian legend as well....

I remember a period where Hasani wasn't available for close to a month or less.


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## al-Hasani

Hazzy997 said:


> He's banned Hasani numerous times before this along with JUBA, MooshMoosh, I believe Arabian legend as well....
> 
> I remember a period where Hasani wasn't available for close to a month or less.



Hehe. I have been banned about 6 times in 1 year. Most bans have been 1 or 2 weeks long. You can even see that by counting the infraction points. I think that there are 18 in total (3 infractions points for 1 ban). That 1 month long absence was due to holidays. I was back home.

Yet Ceylal has only been banned 3-5 times despite writing nonsense 99% of the time especially if the word Arab comes into the picture and if he is countered he cries about shared blood and culture when it suits him and when not he continues and denies making such claims.

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## Falcon29

al-Hasani said:


> Hehe. I have been banned about 6 times in 1 year. Most bans have been 1 or 2 weeks long. You can even see that by counting the infraction points. I think that there are 18 in total (3 infractions points for 1 ban). That 1 month long absence was due to holidays. I was back home.
> 
> Yet Ceylal has only been banned 3-5 times despite writing nonsense 99% of the time especially if the word Arab comes into the picture and if he is countered he cries about shared blood and culture when it suits him and when not he continues and denies making such claims.



His pictures are really annoying and trollish...I only ever had one warning and this was when I first joined...

Ever since then I've been good.

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## al-Hasani

Hazzy997 said:


> His pictures are really annoying and trollish...I only ever had one warning and this was when I first joined...
> 
> Ever since then I've been good.



Not only that. Have you seen his comments about Islam, Muslims and Arabs? One day he is perfectly fine but the next day he suffers from several aneurisms.

Haha, that's because you don't have a large horde of Farsi trolls/double users to deal with. Anyway keep being calm. I like to strike from time to time.


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## Falcon29

al-Hasani said:


> Not only that. Have you seen his comments about Islam, Muslims and Arabs? One day he is perfectly fine but the next day he suffers from several aneurisms.
> 
> Haha, that's because you don't have a large horde of Farsi trolls/double users to deal with. Anyway keep being calm. I like to strike from time to time.



Ceylal thinks we Arabs and Muslims and are like an episode of jersey shore...he annoys me when he does that...LOL! You know what I'm talking about right.

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## Developereo

The military thugs in Egypt are getting desperate:

Journalist Peter Greste's detention in Egypt harrowing

_Of the 20, 16 Egyptian journalists have been charged with belonging to a "terrorist organisation ... and harming national unity and social peace'', a prosecution statement said.

The four foreigners - Mr Greste, two Britons, and a Dutch woman - have been accused of "collaborating with the Egyptians by providing them with money, equipment, information ... and airing false news aimed at informing the outside world that the country was witnessing a civil war''_.



Shah9 said:


> Since when do European journalist have links with terrorist?



When they point out the massacres of Sisi and his band of thugs.

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## Hussein

Hazzy997 said:


> He's banned Hasani numerous times before this along with JUBA, MooshMoosh, I believe Arabian legend as well....
> 
> I remember a period where Hasani wasn't available for close to a month or less.


thx

i didn't think about Al Hasani. i was thinking about hatred messages in general: like hatred towards shias for exemple
i understand the anti saudi hatred should be avoided too

anyway back to the topic , strangely i didn't read here aout this:

Jihadists Release Tape Showing Successful Missile Strike on Egyptian Helicopter - The Tower - The Tower
wow that's something i would be very much worried about

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## al-Hasani

Hussein said:


> thx
> 
> i didn't think about Al Hasani. i was thinking about hatred messages in general: like hatred towards shias for exemple
> i understand the anti saudi hatred should be avoided too
> 
> anyway back to the topic , strangely i didn't read here aout this:
> 
> Jihadists Release Tape Showing Successful Missile Strike on Egyptian Helicopter - The Tower - The Tower
> wow that's something i would be very much worried about



It works both ways. In fact it is a bigger problem the other way around due to the many Iranian double users/trolls who get banned but reappear under new usernames. Many Iranian double users are somehow active right now while we speak on this section while in reality they should get permanently banned if the rules were followed. The Webmaster even acknowledged that problem.

The attack on the Egyptian helo was apparently done by a Strela-2 (Russian made) MANPAD originating from Gaddaifi's stockpiles. I don't think that Egypt will turn into a new Syria at all.


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## Doritos11

@Aeronaut 

Time to clean.


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## Ceylal

> Time to clean.


Clean what? He called you didn't he...For me it does look like you work for him...You always come running anytime he ask for you...Amazing?
@WebMaster
I will refrain posting or participating in this forum until my full rights to participate in any threads , I choose too,have been restored, and Aeronaut partiality relooked. 
Fairwell and godspeed.
El Hassani, and Aeronaut you can have this on me. Drink it for good health!

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## Doritos11

He told me to mention him when a mod is needed so nows the time, nothing offensive meant in that lol


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## Hussein

al-Hasani said:


> The attack on the Egyptian helo was apparently done by a Strela-2 (Russian made) MANPAD originating from Gaddaifi's stockpiles. I don't think that Egypt will turn into a new Syria at all.


sure 
what is worrying is : such "device" as helicopters are possibly reachable by these people
from now, say me if i am wrong, they were just doing some bombings , not able to down helicopter 
it is worrying for Egyptian army, that now they know even helicopters can be destroyed by them?


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## al-Hasani

Hussein said:


> sure
> what is worrying is : such "device" as helicopters are possibly reachable by these people
> from now, say me if i am wrong, they were just doing some bombings , not able to down helicopter
> it is worrying for Egyptian army, that now they know even helicopters can be destroyed by them?



I think that as long as it is in that tiny area of Sinai then Egypt will be fine. It happened close to Gaza and that's apparently n volatile region. The Egyptian military has massive support in Egypt and people have seen what has happened in Libya, Syria etc. and I don't think that they won't that to happen in Egypt in their current situation just because of political differences.

The military just need to clamp down on the smugglers.

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## Doritos11

al-Hasani said:


> The attack on the Egyptian helo was apparently done by a Strela-2 (Russian made) MANPAD originating from Gaddaifi's stockpiles. I don't think that Egypt will turn into a new Syria at all.



There is no evidence that it was done with a Strela, could be Igla


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## Frogman

Doritos11 said:


> There is no evidence that it was done with a Strela, could be Igla



The official military spokesman mentioned the SA-7/Strela-2 in a preliminary communique.

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## Falcon29

Doritos11 said:


> There is no evidence that it was done with a Strela, could be Igla



Who cares? It's not that sophisticated anyways, only useful against weak aircraft.


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## Doritos11

Could still be igla ^^


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## Frogman

Doritos11 said:


> Could still be igla ^^



AFAIK Gaddafi didn't have any Igla MANPADS after the relationship between him and Russia deteriorated.

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## Falcon29

What do events in Sinai anyways have to do with the thread? We are speaking of the current process and debating about it. Don't bring in things to distort MB's picture. Egypt's military's fight is not with militants. That's a separate development that occurred before the military coup. 

Egypt's ruling power and it's adversaries are carrying out a crackdown on anyone who speaks an opposing opinion towards their position. This includes soccer players and comedians.


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## Doritos11

Frogman said:


> AFAIK Gaddafi didn't have any Igla MANPADS after the relationship between him and Russia deteriorated.



Not according to wiki by many states and sources.
9K38 Igla - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Those transported to Gaza go through Sinai, many can end up in Sinai, the latest version of IGLA SA 24

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## Falcon29

Female MB protestors run over by ministry car:






Egyptian police beat female MB protestor and strip her clothes:






These are the motherfuckers you guys are defending! Have some decency you fucking deliberate liars!


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## Doritos11

police beats MB and MB blows police + others up, no propaganda from any side works.


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## Frogman

> Egyptian police beat female MB protestor and strip her clothes:



Mohammed Mahmoud events, liberal/revolutionary activists protesting against the government of the day, egged on by the Muslim Brotherhood who at the time supported the military's decision to remove protesters by force.


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## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> Mohammed Mahmoud events, liberal/revolutionary activists protesting against the government of the day, egged on by the Muslim Brotherhood who at the time supported the military's decision to remove protesters by force.



You fucking coward are a hired propagandist or do you come up with excuses for everything? Shame on you.

When can you just say something is wrong? 

It's also funny you didn't say a thing about the second video with police beating a female and stripping her clothes? I'm waiting for the next excuse you're going to make. 



Doritos11 said:


> police beats MB and MB blows police + others up, no propaganda from any side works.



What? MB blows police and others up? What does this mean? And you were complaining about others trolling yesterday...


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## Doritos11

I’m not talking about *our* superior dish here, this is not trolling.


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## Frogman

> You fucking coward are a hired propagandist or do you come up with excuses for everything? Shame on you.



Do you see an excuse or do you see me correcting you.

1. Not police or central security forces, they're paratroopers.
2. Not under the current regime or the Brotherhood, under the SCAF.
3. Egged on by the Muslim Brotherhood who were in cohoots with the SCAF.



> When can you just say something is wrong?



It's wrong. I'm sorry if I'm not all emotional like you.



> It's also funny you didn't say a thing about the second video with police beating a female and stripping her clothes? I'm waiting for the next excuse you're going to make.



That's what I'm correcting you on. For the first video you can't prove it was a ministry car, what ministry btw?

Since you are posting videos of people being run over why don't you post a video or pictures of the Taxi driver who tried driving through a MB protest (you know because it was his job to drive) and ended up with his throat slit from end to end. You know just in the interest of fairness.


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## Falcon29

Look at the building in the video, it's a military building I believe and I've seen it before. 

When did that happen btw? I never heard of such a thing.


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## Frogman

> Look at the building in the video, it's a military building I believe and I've seen it before.



It's at the entrance to Tahrir Sqr. Mohammed Mahmoud is the street that leads to the interior ministry (although you don't really get a good look at where this event happened but it was around that area). Tahrir Sqr is at the heart of all of Egypt's major administrative buildings including parliament.



> When did that happen btw? I never heard of such a thing.



November 2011. The follow on protests lasted for about a month and she was part of a protest against the appointment of a new PM Kamal Alganzouri I believe, the decision was made to clear the sit in and then it happened.

November 2011 Mohammed Mahmoud BBC News - Egypt: The legacy of Mohammed Mahmoud Street

December 2011 when the incident in question happened Image of unknown woman beaten by Egypt's military echoes around world | Ahdaf Soueif | Comment is free | The Guardian


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## Falcon29

I'm speaking of the taxi driver incident.


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## Frogman

Hazzy997 said:


> I'm speaking of the taxi driver incident.



Last month, the report that he had ran over a woman and that she was in a critical but stable condition turned out to be false. 

BBC News - Egypt taxi driver lynched by Islamist protesters


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## Frogman

Doritos11 said:


> Not according to wiki by many states and sources.
> 9K38 Igla - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Those transported to Gaza go through Sinai, many can end up in Sinai, the latest version of IGLA SA 24



The latest Janes report says it may have been an Iranian copy of the Igla since the Russian Strela-3 or Igla and the Chinese QW-2 are pretty hard to get whereas the Iranian copies can be found in Syria, Lebanon, and Gaza.

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## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> Last month, the report that he had ran over a woman and that she was in a critical but stable condition turned out to be false.
> 
> BBC News - Egypt taxi driver lynched by Islamist protesters



Why do you say it turned out to be false? What tells you that? And these people committed an action on their own and don't represent the vast majority of MB supporters, this violence isn't sanctioned by the MB. However, police violence is ordered by the ministry which gets higher command.

All this article states is they were suspected supporters of the MB and they could be anybody who knows how many in number.

..........................

Sinai-based jihadist group claims responsibility for latest Egyptian attacks | JPost | Israel News

Meanwhile, Egypt will put an Australian, two Britons and a Dutchwoman on trial for aiding 16 Egyptians belonging to a "terrorist organisation", the public prosecutor said on Wednesday, describing the four as Al Jazeera correspondents.

Three of the Qatar-based television network's journalists - Peter Greste, an Australian; Mohamed Fahmy, a Canadian-Egyptian national; and Baher Mohamed - were detained in Cairo on Dec. 29 and remain in custody, Al Jazeera said.

The identities of the other foreigners mentioned by the prosecutor were not immediately clear.

In a statement, the prosecutor said the four had published "lies" that harmed the national interest and had supplied money, equipment and information to the 16 Egyptians. The foreigners were also accused of using unlicensed broadcasting equipment.

.................

So according to the West it's okay for Egypt to try people for publishing 'lies' yet if Iran or Hamas arrest such people it's condemned as an horrific violation of human rights. Please....


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## turbo charged

a person does not looks pious and righteous just by raising the eyebrows and placing a bend on the forehead while posing for pictures.

sissi placed a bend on his forehead and tried to raise his eyebrows in an effort to look pious and righteous but reality is he is looking like a mushriq of hind.....if you are on straight path then why

do you have staleness and lanat on your face?







yogi shankar also has raised his eyebrows while his photo was being taken but you can literally see satan and evil in him





this man also raised his eyebrows while posing for a picture and you literally see evil and curse/lanat on his face






shang tsung also raised his eyebrows while posing for the camera and you can see demonic curse on his face





chankia also has eyebrows raised and bend on the forehead but negativeness is all over his face


this man also has eyebrows raised but you can clearly see he has a negative and horrid appearance.





if you are on straight path then why do you and other people of your mentality have mushrikana lanat on their faces?






this mushriq of qadian also has raised eyebrows but you can see satanic lanat/curse on his face






when truth is presented before you,,,you become touchy,,,instead of mending your ways you defend the lanat and nahusat on your face and your evil acts




a mujahid looks like this



when you do not compromise on your eman and do not consume haram and do not work for mushriqs and are not scared of fully loaded zionist jets and helicopters and tanks while being on wheel chair....then this is how you end up looking like.






this is how you end up looking like when you do not compromise on your eman/belief and take a stand against mushriqs.


----------



## Informant

islamrules said:


> Dr Zawahiri actualy adviced NOT to target Copts because :"our priority is fighting the western christian zionist alliance " he said, n because "the coptic church is losing ground n collapsing from the inside, bc they can't stop the conversions to islam "



Dr Zawahiri? **** you retard.



turbo charged said:


>



This guy gave the fatwa of suicide bombing. Now we enjoy it alot in Pakistan. Great uncompromising emaan having leader, fucked the rest of us. And please dont butt into affairs of other countries when your own in on fire.


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## turbo charged

rabbi who grabbed land,,,he has lanat/curse and nahusat on his forehead and chin and negative distortion and staleness all over







he whose land was grabbed and whose women and children were killed and who was portrayed a terrorist by worldwide rabbi owned media,,,,,,,he has piety and righteousness on his face







a brain dead land grabber and terrorist and zionist who thinks that just by spending more money he will convert wrong into right

can you hide the truth just by lying and buying?

with all your money you could not put piety on rabbi's face and remove curse from his face

with all your money you could not take away peity and righteousness from sheikh ahmed's face.


----------



## Frogman

^^

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## xenon54 out

Frogman said:


> ^^


Lol, one of the most original ways of trolling must say.


----------



## Mahmoud_EGY

Hazzy997 said:


> Female MB protestors run over by ministry car:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egyptian police beat female MB protestor and strip her clothes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are the motherfuckers you guys are defending! Have some decency you fucking deliberate liars!


i remeber that we agreed to be civil why would you call my army motherfuckers and call me deliberate liar by the way the second video was when the brotherhood friend of the army and they even said it is her fault and why was she there they saw something wrong and they didnt look the other way no they approved it this are the people you defend right now maybe you should have some decency and since you are so senstive when the brotherhood ruled they did this
beating up protesters to make him say he is a hired thug in front of the camera


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## Falcon29

I wasn't speaking to you...and yeah it's those ladies to blame...حسبي اللة و نعم الوكيل


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Hazzy997 said:


> I wasn't speaking to you...and yeah it's those ladies to blame...حسبي اللة و نعم الوكيل


i didnt say that this is the young lady fault the brotherhood did and you know arabic you can be see the brotherhood history in egypt to know who they are


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## Falcon29

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> i didnt say that this is the young lady fault the brotherhood did and you know arabic you can be see the brotherhood history in egypt to know who they are



تقعدش تلعب لعبة يعني عشان الأجانب امصدقين الخاين السيسي


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## Mahmoud_EGY

Hazzy997 said:


> تقعدش تلعب لعبة يعني عشان الأجانب امصدقين الخاين السيسي


يا صاحبى انا مايهمنيش الاجانب يصدقو ولا ما يصدقوش


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## Falcon29

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> يا صاحبى انا مايهمنيش الاجانب يصدقو ولا ما يصدقوش



بس جيشك ولاخبار الدولي يعمل كدا....انت إنسان في حالك لأكن انا كنت بمصر في ثمنية الشهر السنا الفات و كل التلفريونات احنا نقاتل ارهاب و دي فضيع اشياء ركبتها الأجناب


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## Shah9

Footy supporters calling to execute Sissi lol


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## Shah9

The journalist arrest epidemic continues rapidly, they missed Mubarak's policy because it's now spreading 

Just not say a word for exposure otherwise you end up in prison, the first time with foreign journalist in.

Let's see how long Egypt will last once El Sissi becomes a president.


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## Ceylal



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## Solomon2

*The unreported Egyptian siege of the Sinai*

Ma'an reports:

The Egyptian army killed five people and arrested three others in raids in Bir al-Abd, Sheikh Zuweid, and Rafah, an army spokesman said. 

Ahmad Mohammad Ali said that 34 huts, three bikes, and two pick-up trucks belonging to suspected militants were also destroyed.Amazingly, out of the 200 or so people killed by the Egyptian army in the Sinai since their crackdown on Islamist militants, none have been civilians - according to the Egyptian army.​
That would be an amazing record, if it was true.

Last September, however, a video of four babies incinerated by the Egyptian army was released and confirmed by bloggers and reporters in the Sinai. Al Masry al Youm reported on a village with houses of ordinary citizens burnt and destroyed, and about how the* Egyptians have arrested journalists who tried to report the truth.*

The Egyptian army has imposed a siege on the Sinai, collectively punishing all residents there for the actions of the terrorists.

With the Sinai operations underway, the locals have many good reasons to complain. Despite virtually *all public utilities being cut off, from electricity to water and internet to cell phone networks for most of the time*, to many, their biggest complaint is being singled out by the army, just because they are from Sinai.

..
The military official told Egypt Independent that checkpoints are an unfortunate convenience [sic] for Egyptians, especially in dangerous areas where they are more numerous, but they are *necessary for the civilians’ protection*. Checkpoints prevent extremists elements from moving freely inside the country, he says, and it is especially important these jihadist groups don’t make it to metropolitan areas and cause problems.

...Elzamlout says the increasing mishandling of Sinai citizens during the security campaign could create more terrorism because “they treat Sinai’s sons cruelly.”

Menai agreed. “There is no development, but instead *torture and detainment.* These things create terrorists. If there are terrorists here, they have created them.”​This is still the case today. This Egyptian blogger last month said that while Israel's military operations in the Sinai took only six days and afterwards there were no security problems, Egypt's siege of the Sinai is now six months old and no one can even talk about it. 

The danger of Islamists in the Sinai cannot be denied, as the Taba bus bombing shows. However, the double standards of the media and "human rights" NGOs is striking - they ignore Egypt's collective punishment of hundreds of thousands of Sinai residents, with checkpoints, travel restrictions, limitations on electronic communications, censorship, curfews and more. 

All this is happening right next to Gaza which has hundreds of reporters and NGO workers ready to write daily condemnations of Israel in order to justify their existence. None of them bother to travel a couple of miles to see what is happening on the other side of Rafah.

*How many civilians have been killed by the Egyptian army? How many houses have been destroyed? How many have died because they couldn't access medical help? How many hours are they without electricity? How many have been arrested for no reason?**No one knows, and no one cares to find out.*

Egypt's war against murderous Islamists is laudatory, while Israel's war against these same murderous Islamists is a violation of human rights.


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## Shaldag

Egypt is acting more and more against Hamas which has been operating in Egypt and Sinai.

Wouldn't surprise me if Egypt bumped off some Hamas for their role in killing Egyptian soldiers/police.


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## Falcon29

Shaldag said:


> Egypt is acting more and more against Hamas which has been operating in Egypt and Sinai.
> 
> Wouldn't surprise me if Egypt bumped off some Hamas for their role in killing Egyptian soldiers/police.



You're full of crap, even in the Egyptian military denied such accusations. Nevertheless you're a Zionist that hates both Egyptians and Palestinians,


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## Falcon29

@Solomon2 

Pick your side, rather than sit her and hate both sides, obviously you were with Egypt a while back until they recently tried alleged Mossad agents in Egypt that got you and your friends angry so they published opinion articles like the one you just did which shows you never card about civilians in the first place and that you use those dead civilians to your benefit. In the end, you hate anybody who doesn't worship Israel. So spare us your articles in this thread because logical people know their purpose.


----------



## Shaldag

Morsi on trial - one of the charges is conspiring with the internationally proscribed terrorist group Hamas.

Reaters Headline *Exclusive: With Muslim Brotherhood crushed, Egypt sets sights on Hamas*

RT News - *Egyptian military seeks to undermine Hamas, plans cooperation with Fatah*



> *Egypt should take a page from Israel’s book and “teach Hamas a lesson,” an Egyptian journalist recently said.*
> 
> The comments by journalist Muhammad Hassan Al-Alfi were made in a January 9 interview on Faraeen TV. The comments were translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI).



Unfortunately I can't link, but many examples from dozens of news outlets about Egypt acting against the terrorist group Hamas, which has been charged by Egypt for aiding the MB and Sinai terrorists,

Hopefully Egypt will hit them hard.


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## Falcon29

This is old news and fabricated lies against the president of Egypt and against Hamas. Hamas already had invited Egyptian delegations to Gaza and they've refuse time and time again. You're a troll though who seeks to create divisions amongst us and know Hamas and Egypt are in contact.

@Solomon2

Quit whining about the Rafah Border crossing with Egypt, because you know very well it's because of the Camp David accords that it's in existence and it's conditions. Israel controlled this border crossing up to 2005 and I remember seeing your troops myself. They are seriously pathetic people, they made us sit on in the sand under the sun for 7 hours straight without food or drink until a courageous lady spoke up to their faces and how grateful of them they brought lollipops while babies needed milk desperately. That day a hero Palestinian saw our suffering and rightfully resisted the terrorist occupiers and shot at one of them causing panic amongst them. God bless him.

@Shaldag 

They also tried two of your Mossad spies recently too. 

'Israeli intelligence agents' charged in Egypt | World news | theguardian.com

............

I'm sure you believe their accusations, ya right, ya don't. Only reason you portray yourself is a naive person is because you hate Palestinians more than you love the truth.


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## Solomon2

Hazzy997 said:


> Solomon2
> Pick your side, rather than sit her and hate both sides -


Regardless of what "side" I'm on, why should the human cost be ignored or denied? That sort of thing isn't honest and dishonesty ultimately corrupts.

Since 2007 I've urged Egypt's activists not just to push for the ouster of oppressive governments but to advocate the adoption of democratic values that build a civil society to displace values that promote dictatorship. Letting hate blind you to evil, you lose the larger struggle.

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## Solomon2

Hazzy997 said:


> Solomon2
> 
> Quit whining about the Rafah Border crossing with Egypt, because you know very well it's because of the Camp David accords that it's in existence and it's conditions. Israel controlled this border crossing up to 2005 -


So Israel is to blame for giving Egypt's half of Rafah back to Egypt, and you acknowledge Israel hasn't controlled this border for nine years. 



> ...I remember seeing your troops myself. They are seriously pathetic people, they made us sit on in the sand under the sun for 7 hours straight without food or drink -


Do you recall what many Arabs were trying to do to Jews in Gaza at that time? They were trying to murder them, of course. Nevertheless, the Israelis didn't molest or arrest you and permitted bystanders to feed the kids. The rest sounds like poor trip planning on your part - why didn't you carry water and milk bottles? - but what do I know, I wasn't there, was I?

American Jews visiting Israel also have beefs with Israeli security for we may also get detained, often with no explanation, and no food or water, either (because they just got off the plane and were separated from their belongings). That's what happens when a civilized, democratic state is trying to politely protect its people - Jews, Arabs, and other citizens - from terrorism. 



> That day a hero Palestinian saw our suffering and rightfully resisted the terrorist occupiers and shot at one of them causing panic amongst them. God bless him.


Yet another example of Arabs shooting themselves in the foot, yes?


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## Falcon29

Solomon2 said:


> Regardless of what "side" I'm on, why should the human cost be ignored or denied? That sort of thing isn't honest and dishonesty ultimately corrupts.
> 
> Since 2007 I've urged Egypt's activists not just to push for the ouster of oppressive governments but to advocate the adoption of democratic values that build a civil society to displace values that promote dictatorship. Letting hate blind you to evil, you lose the larger struggle.



Well I agree with you on that but Israeli critics have a different plan which is just to portray the whole thing as an 'operation' against MB and Hamas and you know very well that's not true. Egyptian people still aren't happy with the military at this moment and if Sisi does enter elections I really don't know how he would manage the economy. I'm afraid there won't be a real solution to Egypt anytime soon.



> So Israel is to blame for giving Egypt's half of Rafah back to Egypt, and you acknowledge Israel hasn't controlled this border for nine years.



For 70% of its existence yes, but the camp david accords made it so there are conditions placed by Israel and the United States. They rarely open it because it's not in their hands anyways.



> Do you recall what many Arabs were trying to do to Jews in Gaza at that time? They were trying to murder them, of course.



Please, they were an occupying army on Palestinian territory and those 'Jews' were given land by the IDF which forcefully acquired Palestinian land.



> American Jews visiting Israel also have beefs with Israeli security for we may also get detained, often with no explanation, and no food or water, either (because they just got off the plane and were separated from their belongings). That's what happens when a civilized, democratic state is trying to politely protect its people - Jews, Arabs, and other citizens - from terrorism.



It wasn't about security we already got passports checked, they just kept us waiting for 7 hours to get on a bus and it's to basically make it a tough experience to give a message to foreigners not to travel back again. They failed however.



> Yet another example of Arabs shooting themselves in the foot, yes?



Absolutely not, fighting against an occupation is completely justified and legal. They had the right to target the occupying power.


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## Shaldag

Hazzy997 said:


> Well I agree with you on that but Israeli critics have a different plan which is just to portray the whole thing as an 'operation' against MB and Hamas and you know very well that's not true. Egyptian people still aren't happy with the military at this moment and if Sisi does enter elections I really don't know how he would manage the economy. I'm afraid there won't be a real solution to Egypt anytime soon.



Egypt is screwed for the next generation. It's economy is still based on Nasser's 1960's pan-Arabist socialism.

It's not fit for purpose and will take many years to repair.

The good thing for the Palestinians is a smaller population and that they have Israel to speed up their progression from producing Olives to high tech - as can be seen in Judea & Samaria.

Now if Gazans could free themselves from Hamas (polls indicate Hamas' popularity is nosediving) then Gaza too would benefit from the same.

Egypt is in a mess and if Islamists (the ones you support from the MB) start targeting tourists again - then Egypt will become a real basket case dependent totally on aid and IMF loans. Russia then may step in and offer them economic aid in return for being a client state.


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## Falcon29

Shaldag said:


> Egypt is screwed for the next generation. It's economy is still based on Nasser's 1960's pan-Arabist socialism.
> 
> It's not fit for purpose and will take many years to repair.
> 
> The good thing for the Palestinians is a smaller population and that they have Israel to speed up their progression from producing Olives to high tech - as can be seen in Judea & Samaria.
> 
> Now if Gazans could free themselves from Hamas (polls indicate Hamas' popularity is nosediving) then Gaza too would benefit from the same.
> 
> Egypt is in a mess and if Islamists (the ones you support from the MB) start targeting tourists again - then Egypt will become a real basket case dependent totally on aid and IMF loans. Russia then may step in and offer them economic aid in return for being a client state.



I know time ahead will be difficult for Egypt, God help them and bless them. We will see what happens with the two state solution if it's positive then nobody will oppose except maybe Likud...

Hamas is staying in Gaza, they've already expressed support for a national unity government but Fatah wants to take Gaza completely. Not going to happen, we saw how elections went in 2007 they tried reversing the results with Israel/US and it failed because the people were against it. 

I wonder what role China and Russia will play in Egypt's economy soon, including some Arabic states.


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## Shaldag

Not sure China is that interested. They're more into the mineral/resource rich African continent.

Russians are definitely sniffing around Egypt maybe hoping that with problems between Egypt and America, they can step in and have a new base in the ME instead of Syria?

If elections were held now, Hamas would lose. By all polls for the last couple of years, Hamas is in serious decline. I think this can only worsen as relations with Egypt collapse further and Judea & Samaria palestinians are starting to see some real progress in their daily lives.

Hamas knows this and will not hold elections. It's that simple. They are not a democratic bunch. They might agree to some 'power sharing' - but will not hold elections in Gaza.

I worry for Egypt. Sinai is lawless, ageing economy down the toilet, unstable politically. Arab states like the Gulf will probably pump their cash into rebuilding Syria.

Russia is probably Egypt's best hope.


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## Falcon29

@Shaldag 

I will respond to you when I get back, nice to see we can be civil towards each other.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

Shaldag said:


> Not sure China is that interested. They're more into the mineral/resource rich African continent.
> 
> Russians are definitely sniffing around Egypt maybe hoping that with problems between Egypt and America, they can step in and have a new base in the ME instead of Syria?
> 
> If elections were held now, Hamas would lose. By all polls for the last couple of years, Hamas is in serious decline. I think this can only worsen as relations with Egypt collapse further and Judea & Samaria palestinians are starting to see some real progress in their daily lives.
> 
> Hamas knows this and will not hold elections. It's that simple. They are not a democratic bunch. They might agree to some 'power sharing' - but will not hold elections in Gaza.
> 
> I worry for Egypt. Sinai is lawless, ageing economy down the toilet, unstable politically. Arab states like the Gulf will probably pump their cash into rebuilding Syria.
> 
> Russia is probably Egypt's best hope.


the situation is not as bad as you think we have problems yes but we have passed the hard part it looked bad at first now the army is bringing order back the terrorists are now using car bombs because they cant fight the army we had the same problem in the 80s we will win in the end 
about the economy when you look at europe and japan after ww2 and see where they are right now nothing is imposible our economy is not that bad and it can be better than it was under mubark rule


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## Shaldag

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> the situation is not as bad as you think we have problems yes but we have passed the hard part it looked bad at first now the army is bringing order back the terrorists are now using car bombs because they cant fight the army we had the same problem in the 80s we will win in the end
> about the economy when you look at europe and japan after ww2 and see where they are right now nothing is imposible our economy is not that bad and it can be better than it was under mubark rule



I think it will take more time in Sinai. If tourists are going to be targeted, that is devastating for Egypt.

Terrorism is an extremely difficult problem to combat and I'm not sure yours has a political solution. What is the solution that Bedouin want? just more opportunities or to be paid off?

Seems to me they just want to live a bandit lifestyle of drug smuggling and people smuggling.

I agree with you that your economy can recover, it's not fatal. Just that it will take maybe 20 years for the whole system to be overhauled. At least European countries had a system in place. Yours is from Nasser's days. I know that Sisi tried to change things recently when he stopped subsidising bread or something?

Big problems though. Huge growing population and the economy has been stagnant for decades.

USA is scaling back its involvement - so interesting times ahead.

Egypt needs tourism and to get its industry up and running. They could attract a lot of manufacturing companies I reckon.

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## Solomon2

Hazzy997 said:


> Well I agree with you on that but Israeli critics have a different plan -


Israeli critics with a _plan?_ I think you mean thesis or argument.



> which is just to portray the whole thing as an 'operation' against MB and Hamas and you know very well that's not true.


No, I don't.



> Egyptian people still aren't happy with the military at this moment and if Sisi does enter elections I really don't know how he would manage the economy. I'm afraid there won't be a real solution to Egypt anytime soon.


I don't know how popular or unpopular the military is. I don't want the "Free Officers" solution. The M-B failed miserably, and unfortunately the whole shebang was restructured in their last months of power to prevent them from being democratically removed from power, hence the coup.



> For 70% of its existence yes, but the camp david accords made it so there are conditions placed by Israel and the United States. They rarely open it because it's not in their hands anyways.


Cite specifics, please.



> Please, they were an occupying army on Palestinian territory and those 'Jews' were given land by the IDF which forcefully acquired Palestinian land.


Gaza is part of the Mandate of Palestine; the area is open to Jewish settlement under Mandate Law, the proviso being that Arabs' civil and property rights must be respected. If it was state land, or land purchased by Jews from Arabs, the Jews had every legal right to be there as residents, not "occupiers", and only the post-WWI settlements of _Arabs_ in state or Jewish-owned land can be considered illegal. It may be 90 years old, but Mandate Law still applies and is cited as the basis for UNRWA, the social-service welfare system that so many Arab "refugees" depend on to this day. If the Israeli military had bases on privately-owned Arab land, that's also a matter covered by international law.

Recall that the same Mandate that encouraged Jews the to purchase and re-settle land in Palestine also called upon the Arabs to respect Jews' civil and property rights throughout the Middle East; but with the partial exception of Lebanon (where some absentee Jews retain realty) the Jews were kicked out of Arab countries in defiance of international law. (Morsi supporters experienced the same technique used against the Jews: being compelled to sign statements that their property was surrendered to the state "voluntarily").

Nobody ever talks about crimes Arabs committed against Jews and what the Arabs owe the Jews, do they? Obviously some sort of consideration of these matters should be taken into account in a fair settlement.



> It wasn't about security we already got passports checked, they just kept us waiting for 7 hours to get on a bus and it's to basically make it a tough experience to give a message to foreigners not to travel back again. They failed however.


Experience sounds familiar, but of course that reason you cite can't be why the Israelis sometimes do this with visiting pro-Israel Jews from the U.S. It has to be security in such instances, so I can't see why it wasn't security in yours.



> Absolutely not, fighting against an occupation is completely justified and legal. They had the right to target the occupying power.


Really? Can you go to international law and cite just what the rights_ are_ of an "occupied" population? Or if, since the Israelis are operating under the Mandate, the IDF can even qualify as an "occupying" power?

We come full circle, back to the problem of Arabs denying the civil, human, and property rights of anyone targeted as an "enemy". The culture promotes tribalism and clans and is poisonous and stifling; but there is no need for Pakistanis to support such backwardness and accept that the poison of hate must flow through their own veins.


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## Falcon29

> Not sure China is that interested. They're more into the mineral/resource rich African continent.



Probably, that and Latin America.



> Russians are definitely sniffing around Egypt maybe hoping that with problems between Egypt and America, they can step in and have a new base in the ME instead of Syria?



They absolutely need to find an alternative but I don't think they could get it with Egypt unless it's a dedicated relationship with points on the table to be implemented at present and future.



> If elections were held now, Hamas would lose. By all polls for the last couple of years, Hamas is in serious decline. I think this can only worsen as relations with Egypt collapse further and Judea & Samaria palestinians are starting to see some real progress in their daily lives.



Not really, some people think Hamas would lose in Gaza, but Fatah isn't a good alternative anyways. I've been to Gaza before and after Hamas was governing and I can tell you they're organized and know what their doing but they need the siege to be lifted.



> Hamas knows this and will not hold elections. It's that simple. They are not a democratic bunch. They might agree to some 'power sharing' - but will not hold elections in Gaza.



It should be a matter of power sharing which is essentially a unity government with Abbas as president. This happened in 2007 and asking Hamas to fall into the same trap won't happen again even though they managed to get out of it. I think elections aren't necessary anytime soon.



> I worry for Egypt. Sinai is lawless, ageing economy down the toilet, unstable politically. Arab states like the Gulf will probably pump their cash into rebuilding Syria.



I don't think the gulf will pump money into Syria, unfortunately the world rather see it completely burnt to the ground to guarantee investments in Syria for the next several decades and they need a enormous rebuilding process I wish the people the best.



> Russia is probably Egypt's best hope.



In what areas exactly? Egypt needs a little change in their system, there are too many poor people. I couldn't find a balance like I did in Gaza.

.........................................



> No, I don't.



I wasn't referring to you.



> I don't know how popular or unpopular the military is. I don't want the "Free Officers" solution. The M-B failed miserably, and unfortunately the whole shebang was restructured in their last months of power to prevent them from being democratically removed from power, hence the coup.



They needed time and the military is popular in some areas and some it isn't, however the problem with Egyptian people is they tolerate ministry/police action which is initiated by the military but they ignore the connection.


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## Shaldag

Hazzy997 said:


> Not really, some people think Hamas would lose in Gaza, but Fatah isn't a good alternative anyways. I've been to Gaza before and after Hamas was governing and I can tell you they're organized and know what their doing but they need the siege to be lifted.



I think Fatah is a better alternative. I mean you just have to look at the difference between the WB and Gaza to know that. Yes, many of them are corrupt dinosaurs, but they have at least advanced the situation in the WB.

I think you're blinkered by religion. You shouldn't support Hamas on the basis that they are a pious organisation. You should support who is better for palestinians and who has delivered more, regardless of their religion.. At the moment, Fatah is streets ahead in that regard.

What have Hamas achieved recently apart from being a mild irritant to Israel and making Egypt pissed at them? they almost lost Iran too. Only Iran's desperate need to surround Israel's borders made them stick with Hamas. Otherwise they would have been cut loose by Tehran for back-stabbing of Assad.

As for the siege, it's barely a siege now. Hamas miscalculated on Egypt though and is suffering a worse blockade from their side.

7 years on and I don't see any improvement in Hamas' governance.




> It should be a matter of power sharing which is essentially a unity government with Abbas as president. This happened in 2007 and asking Hamas to fall into the same trap won't happen again even though they managed to get out of it. I think elections aren't necessary anytime soon.



Fine, but at some point there needs to be an election otherwise you'll just be another Arab territory governed by an immovable force. If the election does happen, it will pit the two parties against each other and I believe Fatah will win.




> I don't think the gulf will pump money into Syria, unfortunately the world rather see it completely burnt to the ground to guarantee investments in Syria for the next several decades and they need a enormous rebuilding process I wish the people the best.



Perhaps, but Syria's population is much smaller than Egypt. It wouldn't surprise me if it cost just as much to repair Egypt from top to bottom as it does rebuilding Syria.



> In what areas exactly? Egypt needs a little change in their system, there are too many poor people. I couldn't find a balance like I did in Gaza.



Well, Russia has a disposable income. They spent $50b on the Olympics. America is up its eyeballs in debt. Russia is in a position to help Egypt. I'm not sure the US can even if they wanted to (which they don't)


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## Falcon29

> I think Fatah is a better alternative. I mean you just have to look at the difference between the WB and Gaza to know that. Yes, many of them are corrupt dinosaurs, but they have at least advanced the situation in the WB.



There are factors that play to this though, the WB has sources and more freedom to operate while at the same time it's not a sovereign territory. It may have more privileges than Gaza has, Gaza has no settlements but it's sieged. It's a really detailed discussion which I won't get into about who governs better but Hamas understands the long run better than Fatah does and they will come out a recognized government one day. 



> I think you're blinkered by religion. You shouldn't support Hamas on the basis that they are a pious organisation. You should support who is better for palestinians and who has delivered more, regardless of their religion.. At the moment, Fatah is streets ahead in that regard.



It's not about religion only, I prefer a more pious society for many moral reasons, people are different and there are some bad effects but they're limited. 



> What have Hamas achieved recently apart from being a mild irritant to Israel and making Egypt pissed at them? they almost lost Iran too. Only Iran's desperate need to surround Israel's borders made them stick with Hamas. Otherwise they would have been cut loose by Tehran for back-stabbing of Assad.



Hamas biggest achievements was the tunnel industry and military capability which no Palestinians enjoy. Of course we can't compare such situations because it's not fair, Gaza has been under a siege consistently and this prevents the Palestinians from being able to achieve much but many things have changed, there are construction projects, more schools and hospitals and mosques opened. 



> As for the siege, it's barely a siege now. Hamas miscalculated on Egypt though and is suffering a worse blockade from their side.



Hamas didn't do anything to Egypt, it's because of their ideology Egypt wants things to change but Egypt is also very busy in their situation. 



> 7 years on and I don't see any improvement in Hamas' governance.



You mean 7 years and no conditions have been changed, the siege needs to be lifted and things will change. 



> Fine, but at some point there needs to be an election otherwise you'll just be another Arab territory governed by an immovable force. If the election does happen, it will pit the two parties against each other and I believe Fatah will win.



I only believe in a national government. 




> Perhaps, but Syria's population is much smaller than Egypt. It wouldn't surprise me if it cost just as much to repair Egypt from top to bottom as it does rebuilding Syria.



I'm not sure we will see in the future though. 




> Well, Russia has a disposable income. They spent $50b on the Olympics. America is up its eyeballs in debt. Russia is in a position to help Egypt. I'm not sure the US can even if they wanted to (which they don't)



Well maybe this will be a new development.


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## Solomon2

Hazzy997 said:


> They needed time and the military is popular in some areas and some it isn't, however the problem with Egyptian people is they tolerate ministry/police action which is initiated by the military but they ignore the connection.


Back in 2007 I would have agreed with you but not today. The world has never seen anything like the movement that drove the M-B from power, with over 20% of a country's population in the streets. "Coup" doesn't describe it. Perhaps "popular lynching" is closer? 

What's worse is, this may have been the plan of the ruling class from the very beginning. Back in 2007 the Egyptian ambassador to the U.S. was pretty open (by diplomatic standards) in telling us democracy activists that if Mubarak fell the ruling families would ally with the Islamists. However, the ambassador knew that just as Mubarak had done with Egypt's democrats, the clever leaders of the M-B were jailed, exiled, or otherwise done away with, leaving the daft and incompetent as "leaders".

Did the ambassador and the people he represented also have a scheme to dump the M-B as well? Is this what we're experiencing today?


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## Falcon29

Solomon2 said:


> Back in 2007 I would have agreed with you but not today. The world has never seen anything like the movement that drove the M-B from power, with over 20% of a country's population in the streets. "Coup" doesn't describe it. Perhaps "popular lynching" is closer?
> 
> What's worse is, this may have been the plan of the ruling class from the very beginning. Back in 2007 the Egyptian ambassador to the U.S. was pretty open (by diplomatic standards) in telling us democracy activists that if Mubarak fell the ruling families would ally with the Islamists. However, the ambassador knew that just as Mubarak had done with Egypt's democrats, the clever leaders of the M-B were jailed, exiled, or otherwise done away with, leaving the daft and incompetent as "leaders".
> 
> Did the ambassador and the people he represented also have a scheme to dump the M-B as well? Is this what we're experiencing today?



Of course it's a sheme, people knew the MB was gaining ground through social activities and the nations that fear their success are gulf nations. Had Egypt been under MB rule for a decade or two, the situation in Gaza and Syria would be different and turkey and Egypt would have ever increasing ties. However, they would gain sympathy little by little in gulf nations and this could pave their way for the gulf sympathizers to do social favors and this scares them. 

This is why the UAE arrested several dozen Egyptians I believe whom they accused of attempting a coup when in reality the UN found these allegations baseless and it's because they have no freedom in their political and social world.


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## BlueWarrior

*Egypt can stop its spiral toward radicalization*
​*Egypt is spiraling toward instability and radicalization. Since last summer’s coup, the military-backed regime has used brute force to try to restore peace and manage its form of “democratic transition.” But its repressive strategy to physically eliminate political opponents, restore stability and end society’s acute polarization is backfiring.*

More than 1,400 demonstrators have been killed since July, according to Amnesty International’s conservative estimate, while thousands of protesters have been arrested. And the violence isn’t abating.

During their one-year rule, deposed president Mohamed Morsi and his Muslim Brotherhood allies committed serious errors. They were, however, legitimately elected, and they should have been dislodged only through the means that brought them to power: the ballot box.* But the military-backed government opted to remove its strongest opponents through demonization, massive arrests and sham trials. It designated the Brotherhood a terrorist organization and severely restricted protests — with threats of jail time and hefty fines for violators. Youth activists such as Ahmed Maher and Ahmed Doma have been imprisoned. Dissent is brutally repressed.*

I was surprised to find myself among the academics and journalists targeted by the regime. In early 2011, I returned to Egypt after years of teaching in the United States. Like many expatriates, I longed for a new Egypt, devoid of corruption and repression. Keen to maintain my academic independence, I never joined any political group, but I bonded with the youthful generation that broke through the barrier of fear and championed democracy.

*As our hopes for a free and democratic Egypt faded amid the return of authoritarianism, I voiced my opposition to the military takeover and gross human rights violations. My criticism drew the wrath of the security state, which accused me of espionage, subversion and other preposterous charges. I recently left Egypt, knowing that I would never receive a fair trial given the inhumane conditions to which political prisoners are being subjected, the absence of the rule of law and the futility of due legal process under a highly politicized judiciary.*

I*n Egypt today, only the pro-regime narrative is allowed. Those who opposed the new constitution — which was drafted by a non-inclusive committee selected by coup leaders — were arrested and deemed traitors. The referendum passed with an alleged 98 percent of votes — a Saddam Hussein-like total. The document enshrines enormous privileges for the army and immunizes the defense minister from dismissal by the president; it also makes his term twice as long as the president’s.*

*The recent detention and trial of 20 journalists illustrates the deterioration of media freedom. Yet the regime’s crackdown has failed to restore stability. Massive demonstrations still occur nearly every day. Unfortunately, the regime’s tactics have produced more social polarization and divisiveness, turning Egyptian society Orwellian. Recently a man reported his wife to police for belonging to the Brotherhood, presenting as evidence a picture of her making a Rabaa salute — a symbol of the infamous massacre at a sit-in last August. Similarly, a mother told police her son belonged to the April 6 youth movement. More such incidents are likely if the political atmosphere remains charged.*

The state-sponsored narrative portrays Gen. Abdel Fatah al-Sissi as the national hero who saved Egypt from “the U.S.-backed” Muslim Brotherhood. Nativist chauvinism and anti-Americanism are on the rise. Mustafa Bakry, a well-known pro-Sissi journalist, has threatened to “massacre Americans in the streets” if Sissi is harmed.

If Sissi is elected president this spring, he probably will try to consolidate more power. But as Egypt’s economy deteriorates, popular protests are likely to expand, especially among the young, and indiscriminate violence from radical elements may increase.

*To avert further instability and violence, the coup leaders must stop using repression and bloodshed to further their political aims. The only sustainable way forward is to open up political space for all opposition groups and restore civilian control over the democratic process. Genuine efforts must be made toward national reconciliation. Such steps would include releasing political prisoners, ending the demonization and incitement of hatred against political opponents, stopping the brutal suppression of protesters and engaging in serious dialogue for political solutions.*

The United States has been Egypt’s patron for decades — and its role is crucial. Pro-democracy Egyptians recall President Obama’s 2009 speech in Cairo decrying authoritarian rule and promising support for democracy. U.S. officials’ statements that Egypt is currently on a democratic path stand in sharp contrast.

Under U.S. law, to maintain aid to Egypt, Secretary of State John F. Kerry must soon certify to Congress that the pro-coup government is moving toward a democratic transition. Events in Egypt since last summer make clear that democracy and the rule of law are in serious retreat. Kerry should inform Egypt’s generals that the United States cannot fund a regime that kills peaceful protesters, tortures political detainees, arrests journalists, stifles dissent and reverts to a repressive military rule. More bloodshed and repression will not lead Egypt to stability and are likely to provoke counter-violence. The key to stability is upholding essential democratic values and restoring civilian control over the political process.

Egypt can stop its spiral toward radicalization - The Washington Post


----------



## Frogman

BlueWarrior said:


> *Egypt can stop its spiral toward radicalization*
> ​*Egypt is spiraling toward instability and radicalization. Since last summer’s coup, the military-backed regime has used brute force to try to restore peace and manage its form of “democratic transition.” But its repressive strategy to physically eliminate political opponents, restore stability and end society’s acute polarization is backfiring.*
> 
> More than 1,400 demonstrators have been killed since July, according to Amnesty International’s conservative estimate, while thousands of protesters have been arrested. And the violence isn’t abating.
> 
> During their one-year rule, deposed president Mohamed Morsi and his Muslim Brotherhood allies committed serious errors. They were, however, legitimately elected, and they should have been dislodged only through the means that brought them to power: the ballot box.* But the military-backed government opted to remove its strongest opponents through demonization, massive arrests and sham trials. It designated the Brotherhood a terrorist organization and severely restricted protests — with threats of jail time and hefty fines for violators. Youth activists such as Ahmed Maher and Ahmed Doma have been imprisoned. Dissent is brutally repressed.*
> 
> I was surprised to find myself among the academics and journalists targeted by the regime. In early 2011, I returned to Egypt after years of teaching in the United States. Like many expatriates, I longed for a new Egypt, devoid of corruption and repression. Keen to maintain my academic independence, I never joined any political group, but I bonded with the youthful generation that broke through the barrier of fear and championed democracy.
> 
> *As our hopes for a free and democratic Egypt faded amid the return of authoritarianism, I voiced my opposition to the military takeover and gross human rights violations. My criticism drew the wrath of the security state, which accused me of espionage, subversion and other preposterous charges. I recently left Egypt, knowing that I would never receive a fair trial given the inhumane conditions to which political prisoners are being subjected, the absence of the rule of law and the futility of due legal process under a highly politicized judiciary.*
> 
> I*n Egypt today, only the pro-regime narrative is allowed. Those who opposed the new constitution — which was drafted by a non-inclusive committee selected by coup leaders — were arrested and deemed traitors. The referendum passed with an alleged 98 percent of votes — a Saddam Hussein-like total. The document enshrines enormous privileges for the army and immunizes the defense minister from dismissal by the president; it also makes his term twice as long as the president’s.*
> 
> *The recent detention and trial of 20 journalists illustrates the deterioration of media freedom. Yet the regime’s crackdown has failed to restore stability. Massive demonstrations still occur nearly every day. Unfortunately, the regime’s tactics have produced more social polarization and divisiveness, turning Egyptian society Orwellian. Recently a man reported his wife to police for belonging to the Brotherhood, presenting as evidence a picture of her making a Rabaa salute — a symbol of the infamous massacre at a sit-in last August. Similarly, a mother told police her son belonged to the April 6 youth movement. More such incidents are likely if the political atmosphere remains charged.*
> 
> The state-sponsored narrative portrays Gen. Abdel Fatah al-Sissi as the national hero who saved Egypt from “the U.S.-backed” Muslim Brotherhood. Nativist chauvinism and anti-Americanism are on the rise. Mustafa Bakry, a well-known pro-Sissi journalist, has threatened to “massacre Americans in the streets” if Sissi is harmed.
> 
> If Sissi is elected president this spring, he probably will try to consolidate more power. But as Egypt’s economy deteriorates, popular protests are likely to expand, especially among the young, and indiscriminate violence from radical elements may increase.
> 
> *To avert further instability and violence, the coup leaders must stop using repression and bloodshed to further their political aims. The only sustainable way forward is to open up political space for all opposition groups and restore civilian control over the democratic process. Genuine efforts must be made toward national reconciliation. Such steps would include releasing political prisoners, ending the demonization and incitement of hatred against political opponents, stopping the brutal suppression of protesters and engaging in serious dialogue for political solutions.*
> 
> The United States has been Egypt’s patron for decades — and its role is crucial. Pro-democracy Egyptians recall President Obama’s 2009 speech in Cairo decrying authoritarian rule and promising support for democracy. U.S. officials’ statements that Egypt is currently on a democratic path stand in sharp contrast.
> 
> Under U.S. law, to maintain aid to Egypt, Secretary of State John F. Kerry must soon certify to Congress that the pro-coup government is moving toward a democratic transition. Events in Egypt since last summer make clear that democracy and the rule of law are in serious retreat. Kerry should inform Egypt’s generals that the United States cannot fund a regime that kills peaceful protesters, tortures political detainees, arrests journalists, stifles dissent and reverts to a repressive military rule. More bloodshed and repression will not lead Egypt to stability and are likely to provoke counter-violence. The key to stability is upholding essential democratic values and restoring civilian control over the political process.
> 
> Egypt can stop its spiral toward radicalization - The Washington Post



How in the world could The Washington Post allow such drivel to be published in its name.....


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## BlueWarrior

Frogman said:


> How in the world could The Washington Post allow such drivel to be published in its name.....


lol


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## Frogman

BlueWarrior said:


> lol



Shoddily written and on the whole quite inaccurate and doesn't address the obvious elephant in the room, the authors political affiliation.....

I wonder if someone supportive of the current regime would also be allowed to publish such bad work in WPs name.


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## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> How in the world could The Washington Post allow such drivel to be published in its name.....



Washington Post is drivel, lol, except once I read their viewers comments they were outraged over a editor there who wrote an article against a Frenchmuseum honoring a Palestinian journalist bombed to death by Israel in their museum.

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## Falcon29

Egypt jails 220 ousted Morsi supporters - Israel News, Ynetnews

Egyptian courts have sentenced 220 mostly supporters of the ousted Islamist president to up to seven years imprisonment for instigating violence and holding protests without a permit.

..............


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## Falcon29

Egypt's Military Has Cured AIDS? - Middle East - News - Israel National News

Egypt's military has come out with a shocking "medical breakthrough." On Sunday, the army announced its new "Complete Cure Device," which it says can treat cancer and hepatitis C every time, and which doctors call a "scientific scandal."

Maj. Gen. Ibrahim Abdel-Atti, head of the Cancer Treatmentand Screening center, praised the new device, bragging "I defeated AIDS with the grace of my god at the rate of 100%. And I defeated hepatitis C."

According to Abdel-Atti's research team's claims, the device draws blood, "breaks down" the disease, and returns the now cancer-free blood back to the patient, reports _CNN_.

"I will take the AIDS from the patient and I will nourish the patient on the AIDS treatment. I will give it to him like a skewer of Kofta to nourish him," Abdel-Atti said, making the unlikely reference to a local dish featuring ground meat.

The "wonder cure" is supposed to be available to the public in June, conveniently after mid-April when army chief Abdel Fattah al-Sisi is expected to run for and easily win the presidential election. Sisi attended the Sunday unveiling of the device, which has been approved by Egypt's Ministry of Health.

............................


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## F117

* Egyptian General: MB Demonstrators Should Have Been Reduced to Pulp, Mercilessly Killed *

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## Yzd Khalifa

F117 said:


> * Egyptian General: MB Demonstrators Should Have Been Reduced to Pulp, Mercilessly Killed *



He never said we should kill unarmed civilians. But, those who take up arms against civil a should be killed.

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## Doritos11

Hazzy997 said:


> Egypt's Military Has Cured AIDS? - Middle East - News - Israel National News


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## al-Hasani



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## Falcon29

al-Hasani said:


>



What in the world....

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## al-Hasani

Hazzy997 said:


> What in the world....



This leader worship has gone too far in the Arab/ME/Muslim world.

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## Falcon29

al-Hasani said:


> This leader worship has gone too far in the Arab/ME/Muslim world. It's disturbing.



I know it is, or even party worship...what can we do...just so you know though he's probably doing it due to the connections. Even Egyptian celebrities are going on tv denouncing MB day and night and praising Sisi. It's propaganda even though some people disagree with me. It's also disturbing with Assad, Saddam, Khomeni, and you know older leaders too...

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## al-Hasani

Hazzy997 said:


> I know it is, or even party worship...what can we do...just so you know though he's probably doing it due to the connections. Even Egyptian celebrities are going on tv denouncing MB day and night and praising Sisi. It's propaganda even though some people disagree with me. It's also disturbing with Assad, Saddam, Khomeni, and you know older leaders too...



It's disturbing and makes people take extreme stances. They are people just like any other and not Prophets or "saints".

Just look at Syria and the obvious "leader" worship there in connection with Al-Asshead.

I cringe every time I see similar stances across the entire Arab/ME/Muslim world. Also in Africa, Latin America etc. The critical thinking and being able to take the piss on the leaders is something I like about the West.

Ultimately I believe that this is part of the regions problem. it all points to lack of critical thought. That's due to all the authorities. I mean the ancient ME, cradle of civilizations, owes large parts of its history to strong leaders. I think that it is especially "incorporated" into the modern-day Arab. Like mother milk, LOL.

I don't like similar shows for the monarchies. I respect a good leader and can appreciate him but that's about it.

It's not about Al-Sisi. It could be about anybody else from the region.

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## Falcon29

al-Hasani said:


> It's disturbing and makes people take extreme stances. They are people just like any other and not Prophets or "saints".
> 
> Just look at Syria and the obvious "leader" worship there in connection with Al-Asshead.
> 
> I cringe every time I see similar stances across the entire Arab/ME/Muslim world. Also in Africa, Latin America etc. The critical thinking and being able to take the piss on the leaders is something I like about the West.
> 
> Ultimately I believe that this is part of the regions problem. it all points to lack of critical thought. That's due to all the authorities. I mean the ancient ME, cradle of civilizations, owes large parts of its history to strong leaders. I think that it is especially "incorporated" into the modern-day Arab. Like mother milk, LOL.
> 
> I don't like similar shows for the monarchies. I respect a good leader and can appreciate him but that's about it.



If we had leaders like we did in our past it would make more sense but all our leaders honestly have no qualities to be proud of. I liked Morsi, but didn't obsess over him. 

I hope it isn't an Arab thing, because it's getting me to start disliking us.

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## al-Hasani

Hazzy997 said:


> If we had leaders like we did in our past it would make more sense but all our leaders honestly have no qualities to be proud of. I liked Morsi, but didn't obsess over him.
> 
> I hope it isn't an Arab thing, because it's getting me to start disliking us.



LOL. Not an Arab thing. It's worse in Latin America, Africa and other parts of Asia. Other non-Arab ME countries are not any better either.

I am just talking from an Arab perspective. That is a thing that I would like to see change. Critical thinking as well. It is proven that critical thinking reduces one-sided views and taking things to the extreme.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

Hazzy997 said:


> I know it is, or even party worship...what can we do...just so you know though he's probably doing it due to the connections. Even Egyptian celebrities are going on tv denouncing MB day and night and praising Sisi. It's propaganda even though some people disagree with me. It's also disturbing with Assad, Saddam, Khomeni, and you know older leaders too...


yet you see nothing wrong hamas has done and you defend anything they do 
i really cant understand that a person who even like the brotherhood defend democracy or freedom by the way when will we see another elections in gaza ?

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## Falcon29

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> yet you see nothing wrong hamas has done and you defend anything they do
> i really cant understand that a person who even like the brotherhood defend democracy or freedom by the way when will we see another elections in gaza ?



What has Hamas done?


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## Shah9

F117 said:


> * Egyptian General: MB Demonstrators Should Have Been Reduced to Pulp, Mercilessly Killed *


it seems the people outside are uncontrollable, the forces commited massacres yet nothing was acheived, they took down many people into cage on street yet nothing was achieved. And now they want to do worse...what the hell they gonna do if Sisi become a president?

I think this will bolster young Egyptians to take arms. Sinai is already a capital Cairo for Al Qaeda elements.

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## LordTyrannus

It was US Plan from the beginning to replace Mubarak with one general of the actual army. Did anyone realy thought that USA would allow Islamist terrorists like Muslim brotherhood to take over such an important area called Egypt?


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## Falcon29

LordTyrannus said:


> It was US Plan from the beginning to replace Mubarak with one general of the actual army. Did anyone realy thought that USA would allow Islamist terrorists like Muslim brotherhood to take over such an important area called Egypt?



Why are you calling them terrorist?


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## Falcon29

Egypt Deports Nobel Laureate who Tried to Enter Gaza - Latest News Briefs - Israel National News

Egypt on Wednesday detained and deported Northern Irish Nobel Laureate and anti-Israel activist Mairead Maguire and held up others who had been planning to go to neighboring Gaza, _AFP _reported.

Maguire had intended to join a delegation of women activists going to Gaza, activists and officials told the news agency. On Tuesday, airport police had already detained and deported American activist Medea Benjamin, also part of the delegation, who told _AFP _police broke her arm.

..............


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## Falcon29

Egypt bars Gaza-bound Irish Nobel Peace Laureate Maguire | Maan News Agency

CAIRO (AFP) -- Egypt detained and deported Northern Irish Nobel Laureate and peace activist Mairead Maguire on Wednesday and held up others who had been planning to go to neighboring Gaza, the activists and officials said.
Maguire had intended to join a delegation of women activists going to the blockaded Palestinian enclave on Thursday.

The group could embarrass the military-installed government, which is at odds with Gaza's Hamas rulers, yet does not want to be seen as party to a siege of Palestinians, blockaded by Israel.

On Tuesday, airport police had already detained and deported American anti-war activist Medea Benjamin, also part of the delegation, who told AFP police broke her arm. said she arrived at Cairo airport on Tuesday night with fellow activist Ann Patterson.

"We were taken to the detention center and questioned and held for eight hours, and were told we would not be allowed entry into Cairo and would be put on a plane," she told AFP by telephone from Britain after her expulsion.
She said police were polite but gave no reason for barring her, while an airport official told AFP she had been blacklisted.

Maguire, born in 1944, won the 1976 Nobel Peace Prize with Betty Williams for founding a peace group to resolve the conflict in Northern Ireland.

She has become a vocal supporter of the Palestinians and was expelled from Israel in 2010, after trying to enter the blockaded Gaza Strip aboard a ship with other activists.

The delegation of activists that will try to enter Gaza through the Egyptian Rafah border crossing was meant to be led by Djamila Bouhired, an icon of the Algerian war of independence from France.
Bouhired had been expected to arrive at 1800 GMT on a flight from Paris, but did not do so.

Meanwhile, about 15 other activists were barred from leaving the airport, their comrades said, and it was not immediately clear if they too would be deported.
Egypt controls the only border crossing with Gaza that bypasses Israel, and is accused of colluding with Israel to blockade the territory ruled by Hamas.
*
Complying 'with blockade'*
The border crossing is opened irregularly.

"I think it's sad, what they've done," Maguire said of the reception she and the other activists received in Egypt.

"It is an example and confirmation of the Egyptian government's compliance with the blockade of Gaza."

In 2006, Israel imposed a blockade on the enclave and tightened the siege in .

Egypt refuses to recognize Hamas' authority in Gaza and only infrequently allows some aid through the Rafah crossing.

Cairo says the crossing is meant for people, not goods, and a 2005 agreement between Israel and the Palestinians stipulates that Abbas's forces should be present at the passage.

Pro-Palestinian activists from abroad protested in Cairo in 2010 when they were prevented from entering Gaza.

The government of then president Hosni Mubarak eventually allowed some of the activists to cross.

........


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## Falcon29

MoleCricket19 said:


> Well done. We are ALL Egypt now.



Reported son of Satan, Jesus(PBUH) gave you title of son of satan and Muhammad(SAW) gave that title to the gulf arabs we see today.


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## Shah9

Power for anarchy...


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## Falcon29

Even Ahmed Shafiq has stood against Sisi...lol.


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## BATMAN

Hazzy997 said:


> Why are you calling them terrorist?



Egypt army foils bid to attack Coptic churchCAIRO (AFP) - The Egyptian army foiled a bid early Monday to attack a Coptic church in the Rafah border town with Gaza as the Christian community began celebrating its Christmas, MENA news agency reported. “Army units foiled an attack against the Rafah church at 1:00 am (2300 GMT Sunday) and seized a car packed with explosives and weapons near the church,” the official news agency said. Another car carrying masked men sped away as the patrols seized the explosives-packed Toyota vehicle, MENA said. Egypt’s Coptic minority celebrates Monday its first Christmas under Islamist rule and amid a climate of fear and uncertainty for their future, although President Mohamed Mursi has pledged to be the “president of all Egyptians.” Egyptian security sources suggested, meanwhile, that the planned attack could have been aimed at a military camp under construction near the church which has been targeted in the past by the militants. They said the church has been lying abandoned for the past two years. Mursi, who hails from the powerful Muslim Brotherhood, visited the Sinai peninsula in October to meet with and reassure Coptic families, telling them that “your security is our security”. Egypt’s Copts, who make up six to 10 percent of the country’s population of 83 million, have regularly complained of discrimination and marginalisation and have also been the target of numerous sectarian attacks.


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## Falcon29

@BATMAN 

You're better than that, the MB has nothing to do with incidents Sinai, they're enormous organization all round the Arabic world for crying out loud. Many moderate Arabs support the MB and they don't need violence at all, they're normal civilians who have political affiliations just as we have liberals or republicans in the states. It's not a military organization.


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## BATMAN

Hazzy997 said:


> @BATMAN
> 
> You're better than that, the MB has nothing to do with incidents Sinai, they're enormous organization all round the Arabic world for crying out loud. Many moderate Arabs support the MB and they don't need violence at all, they're normal civilians who have political affiliations just as we have liberals or republicans in the states. It's not a military organization.



Well.. i know many support Morsi, but i don't have very high opinion about him, obviously because of his extremist views... during his era Egypt was touted as second Iran.

Now this is a news from Pakistani news paper, just like any other news... your choice, believe it or reject it.

Still, from my POV this is an attempt of terrorism and morsi is the opposition violent enough.


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## Falcon29

BATMAN said:


> Well.. i know many support Morsi, but i don't have very high opinion about him, obviously because of his extremist views... during his era Egypt was touted as second Iran.
> 
> Now this is a news from Pakistani news paper, just like any other news... your choice, believe it or reject it.
> 
> Still, from my POV this is an attempt of terrorism and morsi is the opposition violent enough.



Brother, I'm not sure you're familiar with this at all. 

1. Morsi does not have extremist views he's a moderate Muslim who's children are western educated, Egypt has kept him behind bars even though he committed no crimes and he got out during the revolution. 
2. That is an incident that occurred from sinai militants who have Al Qaeda affiliations and aren't related to the MB at all. 
3. MB denounces all violence and they only have peaceful protests, they're made up of educated Arabs around the world.


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## Falcon29

Al-Sisi's dreams of divine intervention

Information has surfaced that Egypt's Field Marshal Abdel-Fattah Al-Sisi has had several dreams which "revealed" that he would one day be President of Egypt. This was revelation was exposed through a "leaked" interview in which Al-Sisi claimed that he has frequent dreams, many of which have come true. He claims to have had premonitions, some from as long as 35 years ago, and that he stopped talking about these dreams in 2006.

In this "leaked" interview with the journalist Yasir Rizq from _Al-Masry Al-Yaum_, after he was assured that it would not be made public at the time of interview, he talked about four of these dreams.

*Dream One:*
Al-Sisi: "35 years ago I saw myself holding a sword with 'la ilaha illa Allah' [There is no God but Allah] written on it in red."

For a field marshal or any man in the armed forces who has spent his life in the forces, observing the sword is not abnormal. The field marshal's first dream about the sword with the Islamic declaration of faith could be related to his career in the forces and his devotion to it.

The declaration of faith on the sword may relate to how he perceives himself as a devout Muslim. It is easy to attract and win over the simple Egyptian person by resonating to them the depiction of oneself as a religious hero. It implies that he sees himself waging a holy war in Egypt.

Analysts have interpreted Al-Sisi's dream meaning the holder of the sword will be in charge or lead a force that will kill those who believe in that very declaration. The latter occurred when, on August 14 last year, Al-Sisi carried out the biggest massacre in recent history, killed thousands of peaceful protesters who stood in Rabaa Al-Adawiya Square in Cairo calling for democracy and the return of ousted President Mohamed Morsi.

*Dream Two:*
Al-Sisi: "On my hand I found I was wearing a watch. The watch had a very big green star on it. It was an Omega watch. People were asking me 'Why you [who has this watch]?' and I tell them this watch is in my name, its Omega and I am Abdel-Fattah. So I put together Omega, the world with Abdel-Fattah."

Omega watches are a well-known luxury Swiss watch, reserved for the elite of most societies. For Al-Sisi it appears to be an object that defines him and raises his status, as well as hinting at a man driven by materialistic rewards. Furthermore, by claiming he was in the possession of such a watch, he would be able to win over the simple Egyptian man.

The green star in the dream may be interpreted as the world. Collectively, Al-Sisi through this dream may be trying to tell the Egyptians that he is special and unique like this Omega watch.

*Dream Three:*
Al-Sisi: "In my third dream I am told 'You will be given what we have never given to anyone before you', to be President of the Republic [Egypt]."

The Egyptian presidency was given to four others before him, thus the presidency is not a unique endowment. In his narration, Al-Sisi doesn't refer to a person or source but only a vague "they", which may be perceived or understood to imply divine choice or intervention.

*Dream Four:*
Al-Sisi: "I was talking to Sadat [the former president of Egypt], he told me 'I knew I was going to be the president of the Republic' and I replied: 'And I know I'm going to be the president of the Republic'."

Sadat was accepted nationally and internationally during his era, the latter was particularly due to his relations with Israel. Moreover, Al-Sisi may relate more with Sadat's personality than Gamal Abdul Nasser, who Al-Sisi idolises and also fought the Muslim Brotherhood intently and mercilessly.

Al-Sisi, like Sadat, has a slow mild tone when he speaks and has demonstrated his strong ties with Israel, who similarly hold Al-Sisi in high regard and were the first to congratulate and welcome the military coup on July 3, 2013.

This last dream was the final act in the series of dreams, where the scene was being gradually set in order for Al-Sisi to say that he will be the president. Collectively and in order, Al-Sisi may be trying to tell Egyptians that he is the hero, the special one, the divinely chosen one... he will be president.

Al-Sisi lacks the demeanor and physique of a hero, but his dreams resonate his wish and desire to be depicted as such. It would be easy to make simpletons believe such a conclusion considering how the dreams were relayed and worded.

Al-Sisi has demonstrated numerous times in public appearances that he is not a very confident person, both in terms of his speech, where he very often hesitant, searching for words and frequently repeats or contradicts himself; or in terms of his outer appearance where he often covers his eyes with black sunglasses or brings his military cap down over his forehead.

..............................


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## Popeye Turbo

Morsi is gone, forget him.

He's rotting in jail and may be executed if found guilty 

Hazzy still clinging onto hope that the MB will come back to Egypt.


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## Falcon29

@Frogman 

This military forum is like the real world, we form pacts. Ill make an offer with you, if you make several statements here and there expressing support to Palestine and shooting down rumors about Egypt/Gaza 'tensions' I will refrain from targeting the Egyptian military leadership. Just today there was plenty of good news which will hurt the leaderships reputation, if we don't form a pact I'm going to have to up the ante against the Egyptian military leadership. 

You've supported us before, it's not difficult, don't put down the deal.


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## doritos

I want to join the alliance ^^

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## Popeye Turbo

*GAZA - The Palestinian militant group Hamas on Tuesday called Egypt's curbs on movement through its crossing with the Gaza Strip a "crime against humanity"*



> GAZA - The Palestinian militant group Hamas on Tuesday called Egypt's curbs on movement through its crossing with the Gaza Strip a "crime against humanity", in an unprecedented rebuke of its Arab neighbor that further frays their worsening ties.
> 
> Usually open for four to six days per month, the Rafah crossing has now been shut to normal passenger traffic for 40 straight days - although Egyptian authorities have opened it twice in that period for pilgrims to Mecca.
> 
> "Egyptian authorities' insistence on closing the Rafah crossing and tightening the blockade of Gaza ... is a crime against humanity by every criteria and a crime against the Palestinian people," said Fawzi Barhoum, a spokesman for the Islamist movement which rules Gaza.
> 
> A Hamas said official on Tuesday Egypt had, for the fist time, in the last few days cut off contacts with the Gaza government because of the dispute over the crossing, which Egyptian officials did not immediately confirm to Reuters.
> 
> *Relations between Cairo and Gaza have steadily declined since Egypt's army ousted the country's first elected president, Islamist Mohamed Morsi, in July.*




Egypt needs to protect itself and citizens from Hamas and their Muslim Brotherhood allies.


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## Falcon29

doritos said:


> I want to join the alliance ^^



I know you're playing games and think the idea is funny but it makes sense. 

@Frogman can dispel rumors and develop good relations with me if I refrain from targeting Egyptian leadership because there is much I could do with much verified and reliable information lying around but I told myself to give this a shot first.


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## Popeye Turbo

doritos said:


> I want to join the alliance ^^



doritos wants to form an alliance of terrorism with a kid on the internet


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## Falcon29

doritos said:


> I want to join the alliance ^^



For you, I'll refrain from targeting Iraqi government and express support here and there when necessary to Iraqi army, in return you support and express your support to the right of the Palestinian people to defend themselves against an immoral occupation.


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## doritos

i only support the army, burn the government

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## Popeye Turbo

Hazzy997 said:


> For you, I'll refrain from targeting Iraqi government and express support here and there when necessary to Iraqi army, in return you support and express your support to the right of the Palestinian people to defend themselves against an immoral occupation.


This is so pathetic 

People want to post what they want to post when they want to post it, without some kid making them sign documents to be their ally on the internet 

It shows your desperation on here because many people are fed up with you troublemakers in Gaza


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## Falcon29

doritos said:


> i only support the army, burn the government



Okay, done deal, just condemn the occupation here and there and I'll condemn attacks against Iraqi people, don't be anti Hamas either.


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## doritos

Hazzy997 said:


> Okay, done deal, just condemn the occupation here and there and I'll condemn attacks against Iraqi people, don't be anti Hamas either.



no i'm a zionist

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## Falcon29

Popeye Turbo said:


> This is so pathetic
> 
> People want to post what they want to post when they want to post it, without some kid making them sign documents to be their ally on the internet
> 
> It shows your desperation on here because many people are fed up with you troublemakers in Gaza



It's no desperation, Palestine has overwhelming support here. It wouldn't hurt to get a bright mind on our side either. 

Because I'm analyzing alliances lately and will have to lash out against two nations if differences aren't put behind us. 



doritos said:


> no i'm a zionist



I just summoned your ambassador then.


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## Popeye Turbo

doritos said:


> no i'm a zionist


Would you mind if I email you some documents to sign which will contractually oblige you to support Israel from time to time on this forum?


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## Falcon29

........

Hurry up and respond @Frogman , I'm losing my patience with Egyptians and Saudi Arabians. There is much information lying around and I will start flooding this forum with anti Egyptian military leadership news and reports starting this weekend until I completely tarnish their reputation. Saudis are next in line, although I gotta say a lot of members here do full the role of bashing Saudi Arabia a lot. 

I'm giving you five more minutes to respond or ill pledge myself to this campaign. @Frogman

Offer is over.


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## Falcon29

@Frogman 

ي واطئ ي ابن القزمة حا افضح بلادك


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## doritos

@Hazzy997 

Since the offer is over, you should write an official declaration of war and post it before you start.

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## Falcon29

doritos said:


> @Hazzy997
> 
> Since the offer is over, you should write an official declaration of war and post it before you start.



We're already at war, if you fool around about it too I'm going to humiliate the Iraqi government and army.


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## Popeye Turbo

Right, that's it! I'm going to make a fool out of Americans to get back at Yankee Hazzy


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## doritos

Hazzy997 said:


> We're already at war, if you fool around about it too I'm going to humiliate the Iraqi government and army.



Then I will turn 100% Sun Piwa on all Palestinian threads

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## Falcon29

doritos said:


> Then I will turn 100% Sun Piwa on all Palestinian threads



Alright, let's declare a cease fire.


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## Popeye Turbo

Hazzy997 said:


> Alright, let's declare a cease fire.


Typical 'palestinians'

You go on the attack, bite off more than you can chew - then beg for a ceasefire.


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## Falcon29

Video footage of Egyptian 'security' forces attacking university students holding demonstrations and strangling and beating a female student:


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## islamrules

Popeye Turbo said:


> Morsi is gone, forget him.
> 
> He's rotting in jail and may be executed if found guilty
> 
> Hazzy still clinging onto hope that the MB will come back to Egypt.



If I was a Jew, I'de have more to worry about than the MBs, there is no doubt in any Muslim's mind that Islam will rule again just like back in the Prophet's time (Jihad and Sharia), be it the MBs or Al Qaeda or another group doesn't matter , one thing is sure the Jews will most certainly be slaughtered in Palestine, every last one of them, The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to *the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree* (cited by Bukhari and Muslim).


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## Popeye Turbo

islamrules said:


> If I was a Jew, I'de have more to worry about than the MBs, there is no doubt in any Muslim's mind that Islam will rule again just like back in the Prophet's time (Jihad and Sharia), be it the MBs or Al Qaeda or another group doesn't matter , one thing is sure the Jews will most certainly be slaughtered in Palestine, every last one of them, The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to *the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree* (cited by Bukhari and Muslim).]


We can make the Arabs extinct in the middle east tomorrow.

Just a press of the button.

Remember that.

Enough fireworks to wipe out 400million and more

So your pathetic Islamist predictions are not going to materialise.


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## Frogman

Hazzy997 said:


> ........
> 
> Hurry up and respond @Frogman , I'm losing my patience with Egyptians and Saudi Arabians. There is much information lying around and I will start flooding this forum with anti Egyptian military leadership news and reports starting this weekend until I completely tarnish their reputation. Saudis are next in line, although I gotta say a lot of members here do full the role of bashing Saudi Arabia a lot.
> 
> I'm giving you five more minutes to respond or ill pledge myself to this campaign. @Frogman
> 
> Offer is over.





Hazzy997 said:


> @Frogman
> 
> ي واطئ ي ابن القزمة حا افضح بلادك



I would advise you seek psychiatric help, I would also advise you to consider that some people on internet forums have lives to get on with and are not in a position where they can spend hours on the internet responding to every single comment or thread made by a random person.

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## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> I would advise you seek psychiatric help, I would also advise you to consider that some people on internet forums have lives to get on with and are not in a position where they can spend hours on the internet responding to every single comment or thread made by a random person.



People that support military regimes need psychiatric help, every body here has a life and free time.


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## Frogman

Hazzy997 said:


> People that support military regimes need psychiatric help, every body here has a life and free time.



Good, then you can count me out of meeting a shrink, you on the other hand seriously need one. Everyone may have a life but the amount of free time they have differs, for example you have accumulated 5,283 posts in nearly a year on this forum while I have accumulated a total of 868 in the same amount of time.

You can post what you want, it won't really change anything.


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## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> Good, then you can count me out of meeting a shrink, you on the other hand seriously need one. Everyone may have a life but the amount of free time they have differs, for example you have accumulated 5,283 posts in nearly a year on this forum while I have accumulated a total of 868 in the same amount of time.
> 
> You can post what you want, it won't really change anything.



So what? I happen to post more, I don't care if I had 20,000 posts. Information gets spread around the Internet so people and viewers will become informed. I don't need to change much single handedly, the military regime is doing the job for me. Tomorrow the Egyptian people will once again not be satisfied.


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## Frogman

Hazzy997 said:


> So what? I happen to post more, I don't care if I had 20,000 posts. Information gets spread around the Internet so people and viewers will become informed. I don't need to change much single handedly, the military regime is doing the job for me. Tomorrow the Egyptian people will once again not be satisfied.



You're getting a bit too overexcited.


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## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> You're getting a bit too overexcited.



Nope, Al Jazeera keeps upping the ante as well and today tens of thousands of Egyptian hit the street. Saudi Arabia is also very frustrated the army hasn't cracked down completely which is why they designated the MB as a terrorist organization. All those billions that stupid country put goes into waste and brings the Arab world back decades, they only manage to result in civilian deaths. So Saudi Arabia got over a thousand civilian deaths with those billions they've been lending.


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## Frogman

Hazzy997 said:


> Nope, Al Jazeera keeps upping the ante as well and today tens of thousands of Egyptian hit the street. Saudi Arabia is also very frustrated the army hasn't cracked down completely which is why they designated the MB as a terrorist organization. All those billions that stupid country put goes into waste and brings the Arab world back decades, they only manage to result in civilian deaths. So Saudi Arabia got over a thousand civilian deaths with those billions they've been lending.



Still getting a bit too overexcited. Are you by any chance bipolar?


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## Falcon29

Frogman said:


> Still getting a bit too overexcited. Are you by any chance bipolar?



What a sad world you live in, supporting a regime you know won't lead Egypt to a good future. Even if it slightly does, the repression occurring there is concerning. Al Sisi will not know how to advertise his cause to the Egyptian people. He has no clear goals and isn't confident, all he is trying to live off of right now is the constant propaganda that the MB and their supporters are out to kill every Egyptian out there who disagree with them. People won't buy that lame propaganda in the long run.


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## doritos

Hazzy997 said:


> What a sad world you live in, supporting a regime you know won't lead Egypt to a good future. Even if it slightly does, the repression occurring there is concerning. Al Sisi will not know how to advertise his cause to the Egyptian people. He has no clear goals and isn't confident, all he is trying to live off of right now is the constant propaganda that the MB and their supporters are out to kill every Egyptian out there who disagree with them. People won't buy that lame propaganda in the long run.



U wanna restrict beobles freedom of choice


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## Frogman

> What a sad world you live in, supporting a regime you know won't lead Egypt to a good future.



Who said I support the current regime? I don't support any authoritarian regime whether it be theocratic or of a military kind be it brought about forcefully or democratically.

You on the other hand support an authoritarian theocratic regime in Gaza which will never relinquish power through elections or willingly and continue to boast that they are the champions of Islam and yet you live in the US where the tax dollars paid by yourself or parents contribute directly to the so called US hegemony in the MENA region and the armament of the Israelis and Egypt through the foreign military fund and in Israels case they use said armament against Gaza and Hamas. You are simply a hypocrite.

Either way, I'm not the one who has alienated the majority of those he calls brother on this forum in the space of a few days by questioning their religiosity and integrity.



> Al Sisi will not know how to advertise his cause to the Egyptian people. He has no clear goals and isn't confident, all he is trying to live off of right now is the constant propaganda that the MB and their supporters are out to kill every Egyptian out there who disagree with them. People won't buy that lame propaganda in the long run.



Just as they didn't buy Morsi's talk of foreign conspiracy, even if it is not enough in the long run, the MB and Islamists will not see power in Egypt again (sorry for breaking your little dream).

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## Falcon29

> Who said I support the current regime? I don't support any authoritarian regime whether it be theocratic or of a military kind be it brought about forcefully or democratically.



There hasn't been a single instance where you expressed dissatisfaction with the regime. 



> You on the other hand support an authoritarian theocratic regime in Gaza which will never relinquish power through elections or willingly



Hamas was democratically elected and the government in Gaza and the affairs in Gaza are largely decided by university organizations. Gaza is almost going to become a technocratic government. There's no point in elections right now in which your leadership, Israel and the US want the PA to rule Gaza just like they did before in which Israel was occupying our most fertile land and had 8 thousand illegal immigrants on our land. Elections already occurred, now it's time to focus on our cause. 



> and continue to boast that they are the champions of Islam and yet you live in the US where the tax dollars paid by yourself or parents contribute directly to the so called US hegemony in the MENA region and the armament of the Israelis and Egypt through the foreign military fund and in Israels case they use said armament against Gaza and Hamas. You are simply a hypocrite.



Me personally I'm not the champion of Islam, God knows whom are. However they are closest to getting the Islamic idea right. I was born here out of will and will stay since my parents want me to study, I'm the make in family and have a family to look after. The whole point about the US hegemony talk is to spread awareness and encourage social change in this nation. There's nothing wrong about that, that's the only way we will see change and it's slowly occurring. 



> Either way, I'm not the one who has alienated the majority of those he calls brother on this forum in the space of a few days by questioning their religiosity and integrity.



There's a big deal when people go far, I defend Saudi Arabia a lot in this forum, in return go see what I get from them. Their ideas are influenced by unrealistic thoughts of a western approach, not about modern approach. 




> Just as they didn't buy Morsi's talk of foreign conspiracy, even if it is not enough in the long run, the MB and Islamists will not see power in Egypt again (sorry for breaking your little dream).



Who cares if they don't, that's the not point here. Saudi Arabia and the UAE and the military dictatorship are one, they're terrified of Islamist rule in the Arab world and soon it will come back. This region has seen monarchies for too long now, they won't put up with it. It has nothing to do with Egyptian people, it's foreign interests and disrespect to democracy that led to this.


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## Frogman

> There hasn't been a single instance where you expressed dissatisfaction with the regime.



There hasn't been an instance where I was required to do so or needed to. I'm not much of a moaner.



> Hamas was democratically elected and the government in Gaza and the affairs in Gaza are largely decided by university organizations.



In 2006 and then it proceeded to kick out any opposition and tore apart any promise of a liberal democratic process in Gaza. Who handles the affairs of Gaza is unimportant, Hamas still forms the executive and has complete control over the strip, the last thing they need is a monopoly on violence, which would mean severely weakening Islamic Jihad or adopting them into the movement.

Anyway for a government to be democratic in a representative democracy there must be continuous public consent (in the form of elections every couple of years).



> Gaza is almost going to become a technocratic government.



To have a technocratic government you need apolitical people in charge, Hamas is certainly not apolitical.



> There's no point in elections right now in which your leadership, Israel and the US want the PA to rule Gaza just like they did before in which Israel was occupying our most fertile land and had 8 thousand illegal immigrants on our land. Elections already occurred, now it's time to focus on our cause.



Then with this statement you have no right to use any arguments in favour of democracy in Egypt and you also have no right to belittle those that support dictatorships or authoritarian regimes or those who apologise on their behalf because you are also an apologist. 

If the people of Gaza truly support Hamas then they would be victorious if not then the will of the Gazan people would have been heard.



> Who cares if they don't, that's the not point here. Saudi Arabia and the UAE and the military dictatorship are one, they're terrified of Islamist rule in the Arab world and soon it will come back. This region has seen monarchies for too long now, they won't put up with it. It has nothing to do with Egyptian people, it's foreign interests and disrespect to democracy that led to this.



Islamists will not rule anything.


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## Falcon29

> There hasn't been an instance where I was required to do so or needed to. I'm not much of a moaner.



No, you're just pro military dictatorship.




> In 2006 and then it proceeded to kick out any opposition and tore apart any promise of a liberal democratic process in Gaza. Who handles the affairs of Gaza is unimportant, Hamas still forms the executive and has complete control over the strip, the last thing they need is a monopoly on violence, which would mean severely weakening Islamic Jihad or adopting them into the movement.



Wrong, I've gone over the facts numerous times and don't have to repeat myself. Typical propaganda from an Egyptian military regime supporter, you guys are experts at propaganda. Just google Hamas in Arabic and click on the news tab and you'll daily dozens of Egyptian government media press talking about Hamas. Hamas blows car bomb in a Cairo, Hamas kills Egyptian soldiers, Hamas supporting Al Qaeda, Hamas interfering in our affairs, Hamas threatens Egypt, Hamas this and that. Just the other day they military wing of Hamas had a press conference in which they warned Israel of attacking Gaza and referred to Israel as the كايان، an Egyptian television host then went on a rant telling Hamas Egypt is not a Kayan and you can't attack Egypt even though they know Hamas was referring to Israel. Daily propaganda is pumped out even accusing people who died several years ago of attacking Egypt. And I still remember the priceless 'report' where Egypt killed 88 Hamas resistance fighters in the Sinai. 

Islamic Jihad is a lot weaker and they are allies with Hamas. Keep your stupid propaganda out of this.



> Anyway for a government to be democratic in a representative democracy there must be continuous public consent (in the form of elections every couple of years).



The Middle East is nowhere near close to the West, that doesn't mean you can go around doing what the Egyptian military is.




> To have a technocratic government you need apolitical people in charge, Hamas is certainly not apolitical.



You don't know anything, things are being discussed but I already explained to nobody in the West will respect democratic results. It's just a sheme of trying to get the PA back in power.



> Then with this statement you have no right to use any arguments in favour of democracy in Egypt and you also have no right to belittle those that support dictatorships or authoritarian regimes or those who apologise on their behalf because you are also an apologist.



Egypt is a whole different situation, they have the stooges in place. Gaza does not have CIA hired scumbags anymore. 



> If the people of Gaza truly support Hamas then they would be victorious if not then the will of the Gazan people would have been heard.



Hamas already won in the West Bank and Gaza and the results were not respected even though president bush was the guy who pushed for elections.


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## Frogman

> No, you're just pro military dictatorship.



I just don't moan. Although moaning is something you're an expert at.



> Wrong, I've gone over the facts numerous times and don't have to repeat myself.



May be so, it however doesn't change the fact that Gaza has not seen a democratic election for the past eight years and that any and all opposition to Hamas has been quashed.



> Typical propaganda from an Egyptian military regime supporter, you guys are experts at propaganda. Just google Hamas in Arabic and click on the news tab and you'll daily dozens of Egyptian government media press talking about Hamas. Hamas blows car bomb in a Cairo, Hamas kills Egyptian soldiers, Hamas supporting Al Qaeda, Hamas interfering in our affairs, Hamas threatens Egypt, Hamas this and that. Just the other day they military wing of Hamas had a press conference in which they warned Israel of attacking Gaza and referred to Israel as the كايان، an Egyptian television host then went on a rant telling Hamas Egypt is not a Kayan and you can't attack Egypt even though they know Hamas was referring to Israel. Daily propaganda is pumped out even accusing people who died several years ago of attacking Egypt. And I still remember the priceless 'report' where Egypt killed 88 Hamas resistance fighters in the Sinai.



Right sure whatever, how is this relevant exactly? I don't believe such accusations nor do I spread them...




> Islamic Jihad is a lot weaker and they are allies with Hamas. Keep your stupid propaganda out of this.



This has nothing to do with propaganda which it seems everyone on this forum is spreading but you (which coincidentally you often do). It is simple politics, in any state the government must have a monopoly on violence, which means that no one else in the state must have access to arms and form organised militias which may threaten said state and or its citizens. Why do you think the US government has a problem with people starting armed militias?



> The Middle East is nowhere near close to the West, that doesn't mean you can go around doing what the Egyptian military is.



What? you sure that's the correct response to my statement on consent.



> You don't know anything, things are being discussed but I already explained to nobody in the West will respect democratic results. It's just a sheme of trying to get the PA back in power.



You can not have a technocratic government without apolitical people being in it. If anything what you have mentioned reminds me of a feature of ancient Athenian democracy.



> Egypt is a whole different situation, they have the stooges in place. Gaza does not have CIA hired scumbags anymore.



There are those who hold the opposite view.








> Hamas already won in the West Bank and Gaza and the results were not respected even though president bush was the guy who pushed for elections.



I don't care about the approval of western nations, the citizens of Gaza deserve to vote in another democratic election whether its results be accepted by the west or not.


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## Falcon29

> I just don't moan. Although moaning is something you're an expert at.



Even a little infant can tell you're pro military regime. 



> Right sure whatever, how is this relevant exactly? I don't believe such accusations nor do I spread them...



It's about the military regime which survives off of propaganda, if they are neutral in the case as you told me before they're only investigation the jail break even though there's no evidence then the government wouldn't be ordering media to spread propaganda. 




> This has nothing to do with propaganda which it seems everyone on this forum is spreading but you (which coincidentally you often do). It is simple politics, in any state the government must have a monopoly on violence, which means that no one else in the state must have access to arms and form organised militias which may threaten said state and or its citizens. Why do you think the US government has a problem with people starting armed militias?



What the heck are you talking about? Hamas is the state. 



> There are those who hold the opposite view.



No there aren't, everyone in Gaza knows that Fatah worked with the a CIA and used to bring them into Gaza. You're not familiar with anything about Gaza, I am. 



> I don't care about the approval of western nations, the citizens of Gaza deserve to vote in another democratic election whether its results be accepted by the west or not.



The citizens already casted their votes, now they deserve to have the immoral siege lifted by your government and Israel's government which prevents them from getting basic needs and exports and trade...etc...


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## Frogman

> Even a little infant can tell you're pro military regime.



Even when I call for the head of said regime to stand trial?



> It's about the military regime which survives off of propaganda, if they are neutral in the case as you told me before they're only investigation the jail break even though there's no evidence then the government wouldn't be ordering media to spread propaganda.



The Egyptian media is a feral dog, it is completely unprofessional and more often than not is a source of embarrassment to the current regime than it is a tool, the current regime only really controls state tv which has not made allegations towards Hamas, every other private media company was unshackled form its censors and restrictions when Mubarak fell, the military is trying to re install those censors however this is a long and arduous process.

And I guess we will just have to completely ignore the propaganda and lies being spread by the other side in this issue.



> What the heck are you talking about? Hamas is the state.



Hamas is the government, Gaza is a quasi-nation state.



> No there aren't, everyone in Gaza knows that Fatah worked with the a CIA and used to bring them into Gaza. You're not familiar with anything about Gaza, I am.



So you're telling me you have never heard anyone with the opinion that Hamas itself is collaborating with the Israelis. It's pretty widespread in the Arab world.



> The citizens already casted their votes, now they deserve to have the immoral siege lifted by your government and Israel's government which prevents them from getting basic needs and exports and trade...etc...



*8 years ago*, there is a need for continuous consent if a government is to be considered democratic.


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## Falcon29

> Even when I call for the head of said regime to stand trial?



When have you done that? 



> The Egyptian media is a feral dog, it is completely unprofessional and more often than not is a source of embarrassment to the current regime than it is a tool, the current regime only really controls state tv which has not made allegations towards Hamas, every other private media company was unshackled form its censors and restrictions when Mubarak fell, the military is trying to re install those censors however this is a long and arduous process.



Propaganda is still hateful, disturbing and the mass fall for it. 



> So you're telling me you have never heard anyone with the opinion that Hamas itself is collaborating with the Israelis. It's pretty widespread in the Arab world.



Absolutely not, you're insane if you think anybody ever thought of such an allegation. The Arab world never suspected that, I have no clue where you get this from. 




> *8 years ago*, there is a need for continuous consent if a government is to be considered democratic.



Listen up hmaar, when there were elections in 2007 Hamas was supposed to govern Gaza and the West Bank without a siege or blockade. Fatah refused to allow their representatives whom were elected to operate and attacked many of them while the US and Israel which made the elections happen didn't recognize the results so Hamas had no choice but to defend itself in Gaza. The US and Israel purposefully did so to divide Gaza and the West Bank and declare Gaza an enemy state. These 'elections' you talk about are cover ups to weaken the Palestinian cause. Fatah just serves their interests and allows them to occupy Palestinian land. Every Palestinian besides a small minority consider Abbas a sellout. And Hamas captured all the arms shipments Israel through the US were sending Fatah. You think these are some kind of independent elections, they're just there to destroy the Palestinian cause. When we get a legitimate state then we could have elections.


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## doritos

@Aeronaut this guy is spamming all threads and turning it into Palestinian subjects

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## Solomon2

Hazzy997 said:


> Listen up hmaar, when there were elections in 2007 Hamas was supposed to govern Gaza and the West Bank without a siege or blockade. Fatah refused to allow their representatives whom were elected to operate and attacked many of them while the US and Israel which made the elections happen didn't recognize the results so Hamas had no choice but to defend itself in Gaza.


How old are you, Hazzy?


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## Falcon29

doritos said:


> @Aeronaut this guy is spamming all threads and turning it into Palestinian subjects



This is about Egypt, don't get carried away.


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## Solomon2

@Hazzy997, you might find this blog of interest.


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## doritos

Hazzy997 said:


> This is about Egypt, don't get carried away.



Whatever, you typ too much strange and offensive shit & explode any moment, remember it’s just a forum so leave people and their opinions alone we’re getting pretty tired of your bullshit and animal behavior.

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## Falcon29

doritos said:


> Whatever, you typ too much strange and offensive shit & explode any moment, remember it’s just a forum so leave people and their opinions alone we’re getting pretty tired of your bullshit and animal behavior.



What's strange and offensive? I can criticize what is wrong, I leave people alone they come and try to argue with my viewpoints so I debate with them. This forum is created for debating, if you're a sensitive person who gets offended it probably isn't for you.


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## doritos

Hazzy997 said:


> What's strange and offensive? I can criticize what is wrong, I leave people alone they come and try to argue with my viewpoints so I debate with them. This forum is created for debating, if you're a sensitive person who gets offended it probably isn't for you.



Heres some of your daily insults at people that don’t insult you, like against me, against Frogman previous page, many other members on PDF.

"hmaar"
"sick animal ( in Arabic )"
"go to hell"
"idiot"

Then our response to your offensive posts will make you explode and go full retard which I saw myself.

Though let us talk to you like you talk to others.
If you're incapable of dealing with opinions leave the forum, this forum wasn’t created for retards like you. The forum isn’t for spamming threads against Egypt or other states because you don’t like some users here.

Aside from that playing Rambo on everyone telling us we're cowards, you must be a war veteran kid with experience in the US, the ally of Israel.

I suggest you take that MB sign down, you’re showing everyone the MB is a vermin organization with all those insults you throw daily on random people.

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## Falcon29

doritos said:


> Heres some of your daily insults at people that don’t insult you, like against me, against Frogman previous page, many other members on PDF.
> 
> "hmaar"
> "sick animal ( in Arabic )"
> "go to hell"
> "idiot"
> 
> Then our response to your offensive posts will make you explode and go full retard which I saw myself.
> 
> Though let us talk to you like you talk to others.
> If you're incapable of dealing with opinions leave the forum, this forum wasn’t created for retards like you. The forum isn’t for spamming threads against Egypt or other states because you don’t like some users here.
> 
> Aside from that playing Rambo on everyone telling us we're cowards, you must be a war veteran kid with experience in the US, the ally of Israel.
> 
> I suggest you take that MB sign down, you’re showing everyone the MB is a vermin organization with all those insults you throw daily on random people.



Am I supposed to get a death sentence for insulting? 

You guys have equally as much thrown insults, this is called special pleading. 

Try again.


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## doritos

Hazzy997 said:


> Am I supposed to get a death sentence for insulting?
> 
> You guys have equally as much thrown insults, this is called special pleading.
> 
> Try again.



Continue the behavior all you want then you can pray the insults off and repeat the cycle, you’ve confirmed us none of us should take you serious neither argue with you. We don’t insult people because they share different opinions like you.


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## Falcon29

doritos said:


> Continue the behavior all you want then you can pray the insults off and repeat the cycle, you’ve confirmed us none of us should take you serious neither argue with you. We don’t insult people because they share different opinions like you.



Save me the crocodile tears, you are one of the main people who curse without justification and literally every member on this forum has thrown normal insults, it means nothing. You're just trying to make something out of nothing, the real deal is about the debates we have here and the purpose of a messageboard. You're guilty of special pleading. 

I never insulted people because they disagreed with my opinion, if you can show us an example. I rarely speak opinion here, facts are facts whether you like it or not.


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## doritos

Hazzy997 said:


> Save me the crocodile tears, you are one of the main people who curse without justification and literally every member on this forum has thrown normal insults, it means nothing. You're just trying to make something out of nothing, the real deal is about the debates we have here and the purpose of a messageboard. You're guilty of special pleading.
> 
> *I never insulted people because they disagreed with my opinion*, if you can show us an example. I rarely speak opinion here, facts are facts whether you like it or not.



You have even on the previous page of this thread, now this will be the last reply for your short & cretin memory


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## Falcon29

doritos said:


> You have even on the previous page of this thread, now this will be the last reply for your short & cretin memory



That's debating over what's right or wrong, quit crying about it. I don't insult people for disagreeing with my opinion, I insult people only when it's necessary for being unjust or making stupid comments. If you're too sensitive to handle a form then just leave it alone. I never met a sensitive Iraqi like you.


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## islamrules

a little bit of laughter


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## turbo charged

apnay logon per zulam ker ker kai or mushrikeen kai kai sath dostian ker kai or oun kai liay kaam ker ker kai is ki shakal kaisi lanat naak ho gai hai










is ko is ka ADC kehta hai kai sir mughay app ki shakal pai misar ki awam ka dard nazar aata hai or meray mutabiq four star general kai toor per app misar ki awam ki sahi kidmat nahi ker paa rahay,layhaza app field marshal ban jaiay or field marshal bananay sai roknay kai liay app ko shaitan bohot roknay ki koshish keray ga or shaitan misar ki awam kai andar aa jai ga takay app kai rastay mai rukawatain khari kerai...lehaza jo sniper rifle app ko misar ki awam nai yahdui foojion ko pherkanay kai liay lai ker di hai app ous sniper rifle ka rukh apni awam ki teraf ker dejiay ga.
tum ous ki baton or apnay nafs ki baton mai aa gai.jis ko woh tumhari shakal pai misar ki awam ka dar keh raha tha wo haqeeqat mai lanat or wehshat thi jo tumhari harkaton ki waja sai tumhari shakal pai per gai thi

agar tumhay field marshal bananay ka itna hi shook tha to mursi ko keh dia hota.ous nai konsa naa kerni thi.apni awam pai zulam kernay ki kia zarorat thi?

ajj dekho tumhari shakal hind kai mushrik om puri jaisi ho gai hai jo zana bhi kerta tha or sharab bhi peta tha or fohosh filmo mai kaam bhi kerta tha.
jab ous ko kaha jata tha kai fohosh filmo mai kaam na kero to wo kehta tha yeh to art film hai.yeh to muashray ki haqeeqat hai....mai to dar haqeeqat aik kirdar ada ker raha houn.....likin wo jhoot bolta tha...haqeeqat mai yeh shaitani kaam jinsi taskeen kai liay kerta tha or paiso kai liay kerta tha...or actresses kai sath zana kernay kai liay kerta tha...or mashoor honay kai liay kerta tha.....muashray ki haqeeqat ujagar kernay kai or bohot sai jaiz tarekay hain.muashray ki hakeekat ujagar kernay ka matlab yeh nahi kai tum khud bhi shaitan ban jao







jis terah ous nai apnay nafs ki khidmat ki ....ous terah tum nai bhi apnay nafs ki khidmat ki.....is liay dawa to tumhara mujahid honay ka hai....likin shakal pai tumharay lanat or wehshat aik zani mushrik jaisi perri hui hai


mujahid ki aisi shakal hoti hai






ya aisi shakal hoti hai






ya aisi hoti hai


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## anonymus

turbo charged said:


> apnay logon per zulam ker ker kai or mushrikeen kai kai sath dostian ker kai or oun kai liay kaam ker ker kai is ki shakal kaisi lanat naak ho gai hai
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is ko is ka ADC kehta hai kai sir mughay app ki shakal pai misar ki awam ka dard nazar aata hai or meray mutabiq four star general kai toor per app misar ki awam ki sahi kidmat nahi ker paa rahay,layhaza app field marshal ban jaiay or field marshal bananay sai roknay kai liay app ko shaitan bohot roknay ki koshish keray ga or shaitan misar ki awam kai andar aa jai ga takay app kai rastay mai rukawatain khari kerai...lehaza jo sniper rifle app ko misar ki awam nai yahdui foojion ko pherkanay kai liay lai ker di hai app ous sniper rifle ka rukh apni awam ki teraf ker dejiay ga.
> tum ous ki baton or apnay nafs ki baton mai aa gai.jis ko woh tumhari shakal pai misar ki awam ka dar keh raha tha wo haqeeqat mai lanat or wehshat thi jo tumhari harkaton ki waja sai tumhari shakal pai per gai thi
> 
> agar tumhay field marshal bananay ka itna hi shook tha to mursi ko keh dia hota.ous nai konsa naa kerni thi.apni awam pai zulam kernay ki kia zarorat thi?
> 
> ajj dekho tumhari shakal hind kai mushrik om puri jaisi ho gai hai jo zana bhi kerta tha or sharab bhi peta tha or fohosh filmo mai kaam bhi kerta tha.
> jab ous ko kaha jata tha kai fohosh filmo mai kaam na kero to wo kehta tha yeh to art film hai.yeh to muashray ki haqeeqat hai....mai to dar haqeeqat aik kirdar ada ker raha houn.....likin wo jhoot bolta tha...haqeeqat mai yeh shaitani kaam jinsi taskeen kai liay kerta tha or paiso kai liay kerta tha...or actresses kai sath zana kernay kai liay kerta tha...or mashoor honay kai liay kerta tha.....muashray ki haqeeqat ujagar kernay kai or bohot sai jaiz tarekay hain.muashray ki hakeekat ujagar kernay ka matlab yeh nahi kai tum khud bhi shaitan ban jao
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jis terah ous nai apnay nafs ki khidmat ki ....ous terah tum nai bhi apnay nafs ki khidmat ki.....is liay dawa to tumhara mujahid honay ka hai....likin shakal pai tumharay lanat or wehshat aik zani mushrik jaisi perri hui hai
> 
> 
> mujahid ki aisi shakal hoti hai
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ya aisi shakal hoti hai
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ya aisi hoti hai











​
@turbo charged *and his Gay Fantasies.*


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## Falcon29

Egypt's military-led government continue to clamp down on free speech

This week the trial of 20 journalists resumed in Egypt. They stand accused of joining or aiding a terrorist group, namely the Muslim Brotherhood, which is being broadly oppressed by the interim government after being ousted in July.
The 20 people include Al-Jazeeera correspondent and Australian citizen, Peter Greste, who was arrested along with Canadian-Egyptian bureau chief Mohamed Fadel Fahmy and Egyptian producer Baher Mohamed at the end of December. The three men were seized at a raid at a Cairo hotel on 29 December. It was Greste's first assignment in Egypt. Al-Jazeera Arabic reporter, Abdallah Elshamy, was arrested back in August. He is among 16 Egyptian journalists charged with belonging to a terrorist organisation and "harming national unity." Greste is one of four foreigners charged with "collaborating with the Egyptians by providing them with money, equipment, information" and "airing false news." The other three foreigners - British Al-Jazeera reporters Dominic Kane and Sue Turton, and Dutch newspaper and radio journalist Rena Netjes - have all left the country. Of the 20, 12 are being tried in absentia.

Al-Jazeera is a regular target for Egypt's military-led interim government. The broadcaster is owned by the government of Qatar, which broadly backs the Muslim Brotherhood. Egypt's authorities view the channel as a mouthpiece for the Islamist opposition, a charge that Al-Jazeera's management vehemently deny. "The charges just don't hold water," Heather Allan, head of newsgathering for Al-Jazeera English, recently told the BBC. "Egypt is a very important story for us. We've always been there, we believe we have been very fair."

................


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## Falcon29

Jordan: teacher arrested over Rabaa sign


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## Falcon29

Egyptian forces demolish homes with residents inside

Two children were killed and three injuring after Egyptian security forces demolished several buildings in Cairo yesterday; eye witnesses claimed.

The Egyptian army and police forces are said to have used explosives to remove the illegal residential buildings which stood behind the Constitutional Court in Al-Maadi neighbourhood.

The residents set fire to trees and tyres in protest against the security forces' brutality against them.

A journalist told local media that the Egyptian security forces justified the incident saying "we have tried to get them [the residents] out, but they refused".

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## Falcon29

Amnesty: Egypt to sign controversial anti-terrorism laws

New counter-terrorism legislation that is to be approved by Egypt's president is "deeply flawed and must be scrapped or fundamentally revised", Amnesty International said on Friday.

The organisation is particularly concerned about two draft anti-terrorism laws, sent to the Interim President Adly Mansour on 3 April and set to be signed off at any time, which will give Egyptian authorities increased power to suppress freedom of expression and to imprison opponents and critics.

The laws impose penalties of up to three years imprisonment for actions such as verbally insulting a public employee, member of the security forces or any person in charge of a public service while performing their duty. This new legislation is in violation of the right to freedom of expression.

Another law has been altered to give authorities unlimited access to bank accounts and phone calls of both individuals and of businesses, all without the approval of an independent authority.

The draft laws also give the president the power to declare a state of emergency without seeking the approval of parliament. Amnesty calls this a "worrying echo of President Hosni Mubarak's rule", when people were held without charge or trial - sometimes for decades - under Egypt's emergency law.

"The draconian nature of this legislation, which flouts Egypt's obligations, suggests that it will pave the way to further clamp down on civil society and government opponents and critics, rather than tackling the threat of terrorism," said Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui, Amnesty International's Middle East and North Africa Deputy Director.

*Arbitrary detentions and more mass death sentences*
Egypt has seen a rise in deadly armed attacks since the ouster of Mohamed Morsi on 3 July 2013. The authorities are primarily targeting government buildings, army checkpoints and other security institutions and personnel, particularly in the North Sinai region.

The main issue with these vaguely worded terrorist offences is that they "potentially allow the authorities to bring a terrorism case against virtually any peaceful activist", said Sahraoui.

As we have seen before in Egypt and other states in the region, the definition of terrorism can potentially criminalise peaceful demonstrations such as those that take place in schools, universities and mosques, under the pretext that such legitimate activities harm national unity, obstruct the work of national institutions and damage the economy.

In the draft laws sent to Interim President Adly Mansour, the existing definition of terrorism is extended to comprise actions aimed at "damaging national unity, natural resources, monuments... hindering the work of judicial bodies... regional and international bodies in Egypt, and diplomatic and consular missions" Amnesty said in a press release yesterday.

Furthermore, it is also extended to "any behaviour or preparation with the purpose of damaging communications, or information systems, or financial and banking systems, or the national economy."

Another proposed regulation will enable security forces to hold detainees for 72 hours during which they risk an additional extension for a further seven days. This violates international law and also Egypt's recently adopted constitution, which guarantees that citizens will be referred to a prosecutor within 24 hours of detention. Sahraoui explained how the new laws also undermine protection currently in place against torture and arbitrary detention. Furthermore it expands the already extensive scope of the application of the death penalty.

Amnesty International's research has shown that the period after arrest is the time detainees are most vulnerable to torture and other ill-treatment and that the new proposals fail to recount the illegitimacy of "confessions" extracted under this treatment.

*History of misrepresentation worsens*
In December the Muslim Brotherhood were labelled a terrorist group by the Egyptian authorities, even though no factual evidence that it is engaged in terrorist activities was provided. Fair trial safeguards in death penalty cases, which are required by international law, have frequently not been upheld in Egypt including in cases of individuals suspected of terrorism-related activities.

Under this draft law a public prosecutor, rather than an independent judge, can authorise surveillance including checking bank accounts and monitoring phone calls.

Without an independent monitor this law is likely to be abused by the authorities to harass and intimidate NGOs and human rights groups involved in work that criticises the government.

The draft laws also impose heavy penalties for acts that are entirely peaceful, such as the mere belonging to a group labelled as 'terrorist.' Those who break the law could face up to ten years in prison. Hundreds of Morsi supporters now stand before this charge.

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## Falcon29

Egypt police headquarters turn into torture camps for university students

Two Egyptian police headquarters in Cairo have recently turned into torture camps for anti-coup university students, human rights activists and eyewitnesses reported.

A written testimony leaked from Nasr City Police Headquarters in Cairo revealed shocking details about the torture of university students by Egyptian police to solicit false confessions. Omar Gamal Ibrahim Al Shoeikh, locked up in the Second Nasr City Police Headquarters, wrote to his lawyer that he was subjected to brutal torture by police officers after his arrest on his way home from college.

Omar narrates that an officer stopped him at gunpoint while he was heading to his house in Nasr City, beat him, and stole his wallet and cell phone. He was transported to the police headquarters and locked up on the second floor of the building, in a detention room called "the fridge" by inmates.

According to Omar, he was handcuffed and tied up from behind, his eyes covered with a red piece of cloth, and he was given electric shocks all over his body. During torture, Omar was interrogated about student protests, particularly who organizes and funds them. When the torturers didn't elicit satisfactory responses, they used more painful means of torture such as electric shocks on sensitive parts of Omar's body, such as his underarms, stomach, fingertips, and private parts. He was also beaten with a stick on his back and buttocks.

Omar added that police officers used sexual assaults as a tool to humiliate him: "Sexual harassment was used repeatedly. Officers groped my private parts during urinal." After a round of sexual torture, officers forced him to record a video testimony where they dictated him what to say. Then he was detained in solitary confinement until he appears before prosecutors.

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## Chak Bamu

How Egypt’s Rebel Movement Helped Pave The Way For A Sisi Presidency

I just posted a thread based on the following article:

How Egypt's Rebel Movement Helped Pave The Way For A Sisi Presidency

As ever, various political factions imagine that their prescriptions are the exclusive recipes for taking their respective nations forward. When these factions value their opinions more than the process, they become tools for the deep state. Pakistanis have learned this the hard way and that is why a lot of us were imploring Egyptian brothers not to derail the process.

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