# ‘CPEC could become another East India Company’ IF interests not protected



## Devil Soul

*‘CPEC could become another East India Company’*
SYED IRFAN RAZA — UPDATED ABOUT 3 HOURS AGO
WHATSAPP
 70 COMMENTS
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ISLAMABAD: Lawmakers from the upper house on Monday expressed the fear that the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) could turn into another East India Company if the country’s interests were not actively protected.

“Another East India Company is in the offing; national interests are not being protected. We are proud of the friendship between Pakistan and China, but the interests of the state should come first,” Senator Tahir Mashhadi, chairman of the Senate Standing Committee on Planning and Development, said when some committee members raised the concern that the government was not protecting the rights and interests of the people.

The East India Company was the British trading mission sent to India, which became the precursor to the British colonial presence in the subcontinent, eventually gaining power and overthrowing the Mughals who ruled India at the time.

Following a briefing by Planning Commission Secretary Yousuf Nadeem Khokhar, a number of committee members voiced their fears over what they perceived as the utilisation of local financing for CPEC projects, instead of funding from the Chinese or any other foreign investment. They also expressed concern over the fixing of power tariff for CPEC-related power projects by the Chinese.

*Senators question why most corridor projects are being funded locally, not through foreign investment*
Since only one of three Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) members of the committee was present at the meeting, most of this criticism went unanswered. Even Senator Saeedul Hassan Mandokhail, the lone PML-N senator in attendance, endorsed the committee chairman’s complaints.

The meeting was informed that a major portion of the CPEC depended on local finances rather than Chinese investment.

“It will be very harmful for us if we have to bear the entire burden; will this [project] be a national development or a national calamity? Whatever loans taken from China will have to be paid by the poor people of Pakistan,” Mr Mashhadi observed.

Highlighting the status of CPEC-related power projects, the Planning Commission secretary said that the Matiari-Lahore transmission line project had “not been scrapped” and was being pursued by its Chinese sponsors.

Recently, the National Energy Power Regulatory Authority (Nepra) had approved tariff for the project, while the government’s Private Power Infrastructure Board had filed a review petition on the tariff in order to address the sponsors’ concerns.

At this, Senator Usman Khan Kakar pointed out that Nepra had fixed the power tariff for the project at 71 paisas/unit, while Chinese investors were demanding 95 paisas/unit.

“The government has filed an appeal before Nepra, seeking the increase despite the fact that the burden will be borne by poor consumers,” he said.

The secretary also informed the committee that the Gadani power plant complex had been shelved due to the lack of a dedicated jetty. 

He also said that the 6,000MW project was not part of the CPEC.

Senator Kakar immediately reacted, saying that despite the fact that the project was not part of the CPEC, Chinese Ambassador Sun Weidong had recently claimed that the Gadani power plant had not been scrapped and was indeed a part of the corridor. “Why is this project, which does not even exist, being counted in our account?” he asked.

He said that the infrastructure being established in Gwadar would only benefit the Chinese and Punjab governments, not the local community. “The people of Balochistan will only get one benefit from this project, which is the water supply,” he said, adding that no electricity or railway projects had been planned for Balochistan under the CPEC.

Senator Mandokhail said that a sense of deprivation was being instilled in smaller provinces. “We do not want the CPEC at the cost of the federation,” he added.

Since Minister for Planning and Development Ahsan Iqbal was not present in the meeting, the senator urged the secretary to advise him to ensure the integrity of the federation.

Senator Mandokhail also accused the Planning Commission of prioritising Balochistan very low on its list, given that it has not representation in the commission itself.

Jamaat-i-Islami Emir Senator Sirajul Haq said that like certain other parts of the country, Fata and AJK were also being neglected in the CPEC. “There is nothing for both areas in the CPEC,” he said and suggested that a 35km road was built to link Muzaffarabad to the CPEC so that the people of AJK could also reap its benefits. 

_Published in Dawn, October 18th, 2016_


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## ito

Coming from Pakistani law makers, this is serious matters.

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## GumNaam

ito said:


> Coming from Pakistani law makers, this is serious matters.



Coming from the so called Pakistani lawmakers who rigged their way into the offices while keeping their entire wealth abroad, their words are a joke. 

I'll take such statements seriously when it comes from a true leader who has all of his stakes and wealth inside the country.

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## LA se Karachi

ito said:


> Coming from Pakistani law makers, this is serious matters.




And your comments as an Indian aren't. Don't worry, some back-benchers are just trying to extort the government for more attention and money. CPEC is a great opportunity for Pakistan.

Also, why do you as an Indian care so much? I see you on every CPEC thread. You seem to be obsessed. Kindly focus on India and let us worry about Pakistan.

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## !eon

CPEC is bigger problem for cheap enemies of Pakistan.
Like they successfully stopped construction of new dams specially Kalabagh through corrupt politicians, they would go many steps further to stop CPEC projects.

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## ito

GumNaam said:


> Coming from the so called Pakistani lawmakers who rigged their way into the offices while keeping their entire wealth abroad, their words are a joke.
> 
> I'll take such statements seriously when it comes from a true leader who has all of his stakes and wealth inside the country.



So much blind faith on China!

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## coffee_cup

Ah ok, it is foreign NGO funded DAWN.


Get that garbage bin please....

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## GumNaam

ito said:


> So much blind faith on China!



psst, your butthurt is showing. Cuz I didn't even mention China.

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## punit

INTERESTING !



coffee_cup said:


> Ah ok, it is foreign NGO funded DAWN.
> 
> 
> Get that garbage bin please....


Senators are also foreign funded ?

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## Vapnope

What being said matters most not the ones who are saying. We need to protect our interests first. We have made blunders in past by not protecting our interests first and see where we are now. Its about the time that we pursue our interests not emotions.



coffee_cup said:


> Ah ok, it is foreign NGO funded DAWN.
> 
> 
> Get that garbage bin please....


Instead of blanked statement, try to be objective about the statement.

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## Nike

@Nilgiri we got it right .....

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## GumNaam

punit said:


> INTERESTING !
> 
> 
> Senators are also foreign funded ?


of course. all of their investments are abroad and they are especially "catered" to in america and england. that's why none of them are trustworthy. There is a reason why the PA is so popular amongst the masses in Pakistan. When given a choice between a General who spent his entire life on the frontlines and most if not all of his assets are in Pakistan compared to a politician whose kids are abroad "studying", his wealth is abroad, his businesses are abroad, Pakistanis would choose the General any day.

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## Rashid Mahmood

This project is basically part of the Chinese New Silk route project and Pakistan will also benefit from it coz of its strategic location.

My opinion is that all these countries who are now showing interest in joining the CPEC project are doing it only to jeopardise or sabotage this project and nothing else. 

If you can't stop it, become a part of it, to sabotage it.

Well it's only my opinion, can be wrong.

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## Nilgiri

madokafc said:


> @Nilgiri we got it right .....



And now I see this loan-based format being chest-thumped by others in the region.

Anyway I will wait and see how it all materialises down the road...what works and what fails....and hope people in power learn well from both.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

GumNaam said:


> Coming from the so called Pakistani lawmakers who rigged their way into the offices while keeping their entire wealth abroad, their words are a joke.
> 
> I'll take such statements seriously when it comes from a true leader who has all of his stakes and wealth inside the country.



Senators aren't elected .. They are rather selected ... A senators chair can fetch crores of RS... It's a chair that's traded..

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## Nilgiri

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Senators aren't elected .. They are rather selected ... A senators chair can fetch crores of RS... It's a chair that's traded..



How are they officially selected? Is it indirect vote by parliament....or President appoints them or something?


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## خره مينه لګته وي

ito said:


> So much blind faith on China!


DID Russian take over India ?? instead of all dependence on russian hardwares ?? did USA take over Pakistan in last 50 years ?? did U.S take over india bcz India remained a big recipient of U.S aid ?? if your Ans is BIG NO then don't worry About Chinese investments in Pakistan...

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Nilgiri said:


> How are they officially selected? Is it indirect vote by parliament....or President appoints them or something?


http://www.senate.gov.pk/

Elected by provincial parliamentarians in short...


They are powerless ... Unlike the British HOL... But the rich don't mind the title or the "power" that comes with it (to intimidate the public atleast).

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## Indo-Pak

Fawad Masīd said:


> DID Russian take over India ?? instead of all dependence on russian hardwares ?? did USA take over Pakistan in last 50 years ?? did U.S take over india bcz India remained a big recipient of U.S aid ?? if your Ans is BIG NO then don't worry About Chinese investments in Pakistan...




CPEC in current financial form is big disaster for Pakistan. 

Musharraf is war criminal, tyrant but he is a patriot (of Paksiatn) . He also concerned over CPEC. 

CPEC is favoring heavily china, 
1. the interest rate are high,
2. Chinese worker are working so job is stolen from Pakistan (china did same in Africa)
3. RoI (Return of investment) asked by china is high. 

What Pakistan get:
1. Infratsructure at very high cost.
2. Some commentators are saying Poiliticians have got big cut in deal

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## Verve

These Senators and MNAs are all stooges. We have many traitors within our houses.

A few days ago IMF was warning about CPEC loans, now the Senators have started. 

These lot do not know the true meaning of national interest. They fabricate anti army news, bash their own country, and then claim they are the custodians of national interest. 

And as usual, Dawn is at the forefront of spreading their propaganda. It's an Army signed and authorised project and these accounts politicians will do their best to sabotage it.

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## Nilgiri

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> http://www.senate.gov.pk/
> 
> Elected by parliamentarians in short...
> 
> 
> They are powerless ... Unlike the British HOL... But the rich don't mind the title or the "power" that comes with it (to intimidate the public atleast).



Hmm its different from India I suppose. Our upper house is elected by the individual state parliaments (MLAs) in proportion to their populations + up to 12 civilian worthies elected by the President directly.

Why doesn't Pakistan adopt a unicameral (lower house only) system if the upper house has no real function?

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## The Sandman

So some people are desperate to make CPEC another Kalabagh.

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## Taxzu

Well, this is true. We need to do proper planning and protect our interests. CPEC, with all its economic benefits, will bring cultural, environmental and social changes. With so much increase in traffic pollution will surely increase and I dont see any attempt to cater that. Gawadar has such beautiful waters and I pray that environment there is preserved and is not destoyed . And chinese will surely bring their culture and social norms with them. it will be interesting to see how pakistanis will react to this.
Most importantly we have to protect the right of baluch people. When so much jobs will be created and people from every part of Pakistan (specially punjabis) will move to Gawadar, we have to ensure that baluchis dont turn into minorities in their own province like sindhis became minority in Karachi.

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## baajey

CPEC is awesome.

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## hassan zohaib

Devil Soul said:


> *‘CPEC could become another East India Company’*
> SYED IRFAN RAZA — UPDATED ABOUT 3 HOURS AGO
> WHATSAPP
> 70 COMMENTS
> PRINT
> ISLAMABAD: Lawmakers from the upper house on Monday expressed the fear that the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) could turn into another East India Company if the country’s interests were not actively protected.
> 
> “Another East India Company is in the offing; national interests are not being protected. We are proud of the friendship between Pakistan and China, but the interests of the state should come first,” Senator Tahir Mashhadi, chairman of the Senate Standing Committee on Planning and Development, said when some committee members raised the concern that the government was not protecting the rights and interests of the people.
> 
> The East India Company was the British trading mission sent to India, which became the precursor to the British colonial presence in the subcontinent, eventually gaining power and overthrowing the Mughals who ruled India at the time.
> 
> Following a briefing by Planning Commission Secretary Yousuf Nadeem Khokhar, a number of committee members voiced their fears over what they perceived as the utilisation of local financing for CPEC projects, instead of funding from the Chinese or any other foreign investment. They also expressed concern over the fixing of power tariff for CPEC-related power projects by the Chinese.
> 
> *Senators question why most corridor projects are being funded locally, not through foreign investment*
> Since only one of three Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) members of the committee was present at the meeting, most of this criticism went unanswered. Even Senator Saeedul Hassan Mandokhail, the lone PML-N senator in attendance, endorsed the committee chairman’s complaints.
> 
> The meeting was informed that a major portion of the CPEC depended on local finances rather than Chinese investment.
> 
> “It will be very harmful for us if we have to bear the entire burden; will this [project] be a national development or a national calamity? Whatever loans taken from China will have to be paid by the poor people of Pakistan,” Mr Mashhadi observed.
> 
> Highlighting the status of CPEC-related power projects, the Planning Commission secretary said that the Matiari-Lahore transmission line project had “not been scrapped” and was being pursued by its Chinese sponsors.
> 
> Recently, the National Energy Power Regulatory Authority (Nepra) had approved tariff for the project, while the government’s Private Power Infrastructure Board had filed a review petition on the tariff in order to address the sponsors’ concerns.
> 
> At this, Senator Usman Khan Kakar pointed out that Nepra had fixed the power tariff for the project at 71 paisas/unit, while Chinese investors were demanding 95 paisas/unit.
> 
> “The government has filed an appeal before Nepra, seeking the increase despite the fact that the burden will be borne by poor consumers,” he said.
> 
> The secretary also informed the committee that the Gadani power plant complex had been shelved due to the lack of a dedicated jetty.
> 
> He also said that the 6,000MW project was not part of the CPEC.
> 
> Senator Kakar immediately reacted, saying that despite the fact that the project was not part of the CPEC, Chinese Ambassador Sun Weidong had recently claimed that the Gadani power plant had not been scrapped and was indeed a part of the corridor. “Why is this project, which does not even exist, being counted in our account?” he asked.
> 
> He said that the infrastructure being established in Gwadar would only benefit the Chinese and Punjab governments, not the local community. “The people of Balochistan will only get one benefit from this project, which is the water supply,” he said, adding that no electricity or railway projects had been planned for Balochistan under the CPEC.
> 
> Senator Mandokhail said that a sense of deprivation was being instilled in smaller provinces. “We do not want the CPEC at the cost of the federation,” he added.
> 
> Since Minister for Planning and Development Ahsan Iqbal was not present in the meeting, the senator urged the secretary to advise him to ensure the integrity of the federation.
> 
> Senator Mandokhail also accused the Planning Commission of prioritising Balochistan very low on its list, given that it has not representation in the commission itself.
> 
> Jamaat-i-Islami Emir Senator Sirajul Haq said that like certain other parts of the country, Fata and AJK were also being neglected in the CPEC. “There is nothing for both areas in the CPEC,” he said and suggested that a 35km road was built to link Muzaffarabad to the CPEC so that the people of AJK could also reap its benefits.
> 
> _Published in Dawn, October 18th, 2016_
> 
> 
> WHATSAPP
> 70 COMMENTS
> PRINT


really only information feeding in the media circles can keep the propganda out from the uninformed masses. I think thsi is good strategy to keep govt staedy and people awre what is going on. I think these type of remarks actually hinting that the institutions have learnt that how to fight for their importance and these remarks are only the power struggle b/w institutions.


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## k7x

CEPC will be good for Pakistan no doubt, 

Transit fee & Tourism and Energy all +

but biggest miss might be Pakistan's small scale industries.

Even established Indian players are finding it difficult to compete with Chinese product cost wise.

With China embracing automation, it will further increase mass production rate and lower the cost.

From ball point pen to huge ships, Chinese will produce it cheap.

Flooding of Chinese goods might ruin your local smes. Any idea how Pakistani industry is equipping itself for next wave of automation and industrial revolution


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## خره مينه لګته وي

Indo-Pak said:


> CPEC in current financial form is big disaster for Pakistan.
> 
> Musharraf is war criminal, tyrant but he is a patriot (of Paksiatn) . He also concerned over CPEC.
> 
> CPEC is favoring heavily china,
> 1. the interest rate are high,
> 2. Chinese worker are working so job is stolen from Pakistan (china did same in Africa)
> 3. RoI (Return of investment) asked by china is high.
> 
> What Pakistan get:
> 1. Infratsructure at very high cost.
> 2. Some commentators are saying Poiliticians have got big cut in deal


i dont know why indians dont visit a particular threads on Defence.pk which are already created on CPEC,these questions are already answered many times on this forum but your countrymen are repeating these lines over and over again !! 

https://defence.pk/threads/cpec-a-game-changer.433801/page-4

https://defence.pk/threads/cpec-a-game-changer.433801/page-3


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Nilgiri said:


> Hmm its different from India I suppose. Our upper house is elected by the individual state parliaments (MLAs) in proportion to their populations + up to 12 civilian worthies elected by the President directly.
> 
> Why doesn't Pakistan adopt a unicameral (lower house only) system if the upper house has no real function?



My bad provincial assemblies/MPAs (member provincial assemblies) select them .. Few seats are reserved for women,technocrats and minoroties...


Pakistans so called parliamentary system is more like a hybrid...
Essentially the PM is the all powerful but than again Zardari was a president and raja rental and Gillani were his puppets...


It's fuked up.. It's based on the British system but it isn't..

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## Indo-Pak

Fawad Masīd said:


> i dont know why indians dont visit a particular threads on Defence.pk which are already created on CPEC,these questions are already answered many times on this forum but your countrymen are repeating these lines over and over again !!
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/cpec-a-game-changer.433801/page-4
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/cpec-a-game-changer.433801/page-3




Its not Indian concern rather Pakistani Concern, even you ex-Army chief and Head of state has concern. So does many of your lamakers.. PLease ask them to visit PDF page 4 and 3


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## GURU DUTT

ito said:


> Coming from Pakistani law makers, this is serious matters.


why do you bother to tell them dont talk about them or there China relations and never ever talk about CPEC let them do what they are doing they never learn and will never change dont forget what Sun Tzu said in this regard ... sannu ki

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## Nilgiri

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> My bad provincial assemblies/MPAs (member provincial assemblies) select them .. Few seats are reserved for women,technocrats and minoroties...
> 
> 
> Pakistans so called parliamentary system is more like a hybrid...
> Essentially the PM is the all powerful but than again Zardari was a president and raja rental and Gillani were his puppets...
> 
> 
> It's fuked up.. It's based on the British system but it isn't..



Yah there is no overall consistency to Pakistan democracy. It swings quite wildly between president and PM depending on which coup happened just before and how that changed things etc etc.

A few more peaceful transfers of power in a row should set things straight hopefully.

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## ranjeet

Nilgiri said:


> Hmm its different from India I suppose. Our upper house is elected by the individual state parliaments (MLAs) in proportion to their populations + up to 12 civilian worthies elected by the President directly.
> 
> Why doesn't Pakistan adopt a unicameral (lower house only) system if the upper house has no real function?


It's just like our Rajya Sabha, elected state representatives elect them.

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## coffee_cup

Vapnope said:


> What being said matters most not the ones who are saying. We need to protect our interests first. We have made blunders in past by not protecting our interests first and see where we are now. Its about the time that we pursue our interests not emotions.
> 
> 
> Instead of blanked statement, try to be objective about the statement.



To hell with the content, it is the same lobby who has deprived us from dams.

The same lobby, who is financed by certain foreign countries / interest groups and hence project their PoV. Pakistan's interest is not something that is on their minds when they do this propaganda.

DAWN used to be very respectful paper, until it was overtaken by Sehgals / Manshas and then staffed with all those NGO sponsored "Hussain Haqqanis".

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## Counterpunch

The biggest plus of CPEC is that it is NOT just services related, instead is a massive mesh of infrastructure (roads, seaport, dry ports, economic zones, industrial areas) which is there to stay no matter what happens between China and Pakistan. So all the talks about 'all eggs in one basket' and 'East India company' are not worthy of consideration that could undermine the CPEC itself

However, I totally agree with the line 'National interests must be safeguarded' in terms of being watchful while awarding contracts for building of infrastructure, leasing any lands, awarding any allied contracts for mining, drilling etc.

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## Gandhi G in da house

CPEC Mansuba.


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## GURU DUTT

nick_indian said:


> CPEC Mansuba.


jal to tum bahut rahe hogge jo pakistan me china ke tawassul se 51 billion dollars ki sarmayakaaree aa rahee hai aur ek tareekhe defaee aur iklaakhee tarkkee pe mushtamill mansooba mustaqbill me kamyaab hone jaa raha hai .. jalte raho

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## Gandhi G in da house

GURU DUTT said:


> jal to tum bahut rahe hogge jo pakistan me china ke tawassul se 51 billion dollars ki sarmayakaaree aa rahee hai aur ek tareekhe defaee aur iklaakhee tarkkee pe mushtamill mansooba mustaqbill me kamyaab hone jaa raha hai .. jalte raho



Sarmayakaaree

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## shah1398

ito said:


> Coming from Pakistani law makers, this is serious matters.



Dont worry. Nobody even listens to them. Things are progressing as planned. Nonetheless China aint here to occupy land or something, its their cargo that ll be moving on the roads, railways and ships here.

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## Salza

DAWN deliberates give importance to anti CPEC rant. You can find tons of such news in DAWN only.

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## naveen mishra

GURU DUTT said:


> jal to tum bahut rahe hogge jo pakistan me china ke tawassul se 51 billion dollars ki sarmayakaaree aa rahee hai aur ek tareekhe defaee aur iklaakhee tarkkee pe mushtamill mansooba mustaqbill me kamyaab hone jaa raha hai .. jalte raho

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## Hyde

Indo-Pak said:


> CPEC in current financial form is big disaster for Pakistan.
> 
> Musharraf is war criminal, tyrant but he is a patriot (of Paksiatn) . He also concerned over CPEC.
> 
> CPEC is favoring heavily china,
> 1. the interest rate are high,
> 2. Chinese worker are working so job is stolen from Pakistan (china did same in Africa)
> 3. RoI (Return of investment) asked by china is high.
> 
> What Pakistan get:
> 1. Infratsructure at very high cost.
> 2. Some commentators are saying Poiliticians have got big cut in deal


What Pakistan actually gets is


Energy crisis resolved - That we were not expecting even in 2040
Dams finally built which will help in water storage, prevention of floods and cheap electricity
Excellent road infrastructure of Motorways and Highways across Pakistan with multiple alternative routes for strategic purposes
Carving out the deserts of Balochistan to link with rest of the country from various routes and finally connecting and bringing it on par with rest of the country.
Creating millions of jobs in countless Industrial zones, road management, ports and energy projects
Few billion dollars of tax each year for using the same infrastructure built by the Chinese (depending on the volume of trade of course)

Just a few benefits out of many

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## Echo_419

LA se Karachi said:


> And your comments as an Indian aren't. Don't worry, some back-benchers are just trying to extort the government for more attention and money. CPEC is a great opportunity for Pakistan.
> 
> Also, why do you as an Indian care so much? I see you on every CPEC thread. You seem to be obsessed. Kindly focus on India and let us worry about Pakistan.



I was going to give you a sarcastic reply, but it looks like Mods are giving warning on even Sarcasm 



Nilgiri said:


> And now I see this loan-based format being chest-thumped by others in the region.
> 
> Anyway I will wait and see how it all materialises down the road...what works and what fails....and hope people in power learn well from both.



Do give a link to all this discussion about CPEC


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## barbarosa

CPEC could not become an other east India company but it will be definitely a big source of corruption for Pakistani politicians.


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## Lil Mathew

!eon said:


> CPEC is bigger problem for cheap enemies of Pakistan.
> Like they successfully stopped construction of new dams specially Kalabagh through corrupt politicians, they would go many steps further to stop CPEC projects.


Why you people fear to discuss any problems about cpec?? You should understand one thing that CPEC is more important to China than Pakistan.. It is just business.. There is no need to bent your knees before the other party.. Both party should discuss internally about the advantage s & disadvantages.. Rising of these types of doubts only helps to think & study more about these type of project s..

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## Zain Malik

ito said:


> So much blind faith on China!


and your butt on fire..


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## !eon

Lil Mathew said:


> *Why you people fear to discuss any problems about cpec?*? You should understand one thing that CPEC is more important to China than Pakistan.. It is just business.. There is no need to bent your knees before the other party.. Both party should discuss internally about the advantage s & disadvantages.. Rising of these types of doubts only helps to think & study more about these type of project s..



It is Pakistan internal matter !


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## dray

Interesting part is that China didn't invest in CPEC, they gave loan to Pakistan at fairly high rates and astronomically high ROI guarantee for infrastructure that will be primarily used by China, so whether the project succeeds or fails, China will earn its profits at the cost of Pakistan who is bearing all the investment risks.

What Pakistan will gain from it is not confirmed though, because the earnings from transit fees will go in servicing the loans, and the intangible benefits of better transit can only be realized if Pakistan develops enough manufacturing capabilities, which is more unlikely now given the fact that Chinese goods will flood Pakistani markets even more through CPEC, thereby killing the local industries further.

But it can be said without an iota of doubt that China will have extraordinary level of leverage over Pakistan through CPEC, Pakistan has taken huge loans from China at high rates and even higher (obscenely) ROI guarantees to develop a project for which they have only one primary client, China!! China can literally control Pakistan by controlling the use of that project, thereby effectively controlling the amount of transit fee that Pakistan can earn, but the interest and ROI burden for Pakistan remains constant....if I were a businessman, I would have been too uncomfortable to be in such a business deal.

@thesolar65 @PARIKRAMA @Spectre @Sky lord @Joe Shearer @scorpionx @hellfire @Levina @Nilgiri

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## Danish saleem

GumNaam said:


> Coming from the so called Pakistani lawmakers who rigged their way into the offices while keeping their entire wealth abroad, their words are a joke.
> 
> I'll take such statements seriously when it comes from a true leader who has all of his stakes and wealth inside the country.



if some one paying the tax and following the rules and regulations , then its absolutely nothing wrong if some one have property or business a board.

if our establishment keep throwing politicians out of country after every 10 years, then politician should keep their assets aboard, its started from skinder mirza to Benazir.

its not me and u who will decide who is our leader, its the people of Pakistan who have to judge who is our leader and who will be our leader, its all will be decided via Ballot box, not a bullet .


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## Secret Service

Aether said:


> What Pakistan actually gets is
> 
> 
> Energy crisis resolved - That we were not expecting even in 2040
> Dams finally built which will help in water storage, prevention of floods and cheap electricity
> Excellent road infrastructure of Motorways and Highways across Pakistan with multiple alternative routes for strategic purposes
> *Carving out the deserts of Balochistan to link with rest of the country from various routes and finally connecting and bringing it on par with rest of the country.*
> Creating millions of jobs in countless Industrial zones, road management, ports and energy projects
> Few billion dollars of tax each year for using the same infrastructure built by the Chinese (depending on the volume of trade of course)
> 
> Just a few benefits out of many



i think the best coming out is the development of Baluchistan province


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## Joe Shearer

It seems very unsound, but it is also true that it would have been difficult for Pakistan to get aid or investment for infrastructure development. From the point of view of building infrastructure, it is a good project.

From the point of view of losing autonomy and stacking the relationship full of pressure points, it is singularly dangerous.

Considering past history, Pakistan will withstand minor humiliations and trials for the sake of gaining some elevation with respect to what is now defaulting to be their sole enemy.

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## SpArK

For years, the main issue with development in Pakistan is related with power.

CPEC clearly emphasize on power generation and already it seems lots of work has been progressing and groundwork for the rest are on process.

Chinese commitment is real and even the adversaries find it to be beneficial to Pakistan. 

The article seems to be politically motivated and talks about power tariffs which is not finalized and also about not much benefit to balochistan areas.. 
That is absurd. Maybe the high end jobs which are technical goes to skilled people but at the end of the day the basic jobs will still go to local unskilled people from around the areas who are unemployed.

And its seen, as with the development of a particular area, the locality also gets beneficial as witnessed on similar projects from the subcontinent.

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## Eminent Mainstream Media

Rain Man said:


> What Pakistan will gain from it



What Pakistan gained from 15 years of American operation in Afghanistan- 30 billion USD- CPEC will be a similar net- and China will be milked to the last dollar-


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## JOEY TRIBIANI

And nobody gives a damn .


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## SrNair

Chinese are business men and they are doing this business for profit .
Elites in Pakistan dont have to worry about it.Elites means those who have real power will get the fair share and whatever they want .

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## xyxmt

punit said:


> INTERESTING !
> 
> 
> Senators are also foreign funded ?



everyone sells, even in the US of A you can contribute to anyone's funds and make them say things. if you get paid to say something that doesn't change anything why shouldn't you, after all its foreign exchange


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## SrNair

Nilgiri said:


> And now I see this loan-based format being chest-thumped by others in the region.
> 
> Anyway I will wait and see how it all materialises down the road...what works and what fails....and hope people in power learn well from both.



People in the power will wholeheartedly support them .
Like a Pak member said in here ,Most of the assets of PA 's Generals are in Pakistan .And CPEC is their new landscape .



Fawad Masīd said:


> DID Russian take over India ?? instead of all dependence on russian hardwares ?? did USA take over Pakistan in last 50 years ?? did U.S take over india bcz India remained a big recipient of U.S aid ?? if your Ans is BIG NO then don't worry About Chinese investments in Pakistan...



The answer lies in your post itself .
Weapons can purchase from anywhere . Nor we asked them for aid .
But Chinese are investing in your core area with heavy interest .
Some thing we wont allow at any case in our nation

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## SleepingLion

They will be better than PMLN though & will make our lazy *** people work!


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## Levina

Rain Man said:


> ...if I were a businessman, I would have been too uncomfortable to be in such a business deal.


Me neither.


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## Sine Nomine

Levina said:


> Me neither.


Why...

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## Indo-Pak

Aether said:


> What Pakistan actually gets is
> 
> 
> Energy crisis resolved - That we were not expecting even in 2040
> Dams finally built which will help in water storage, prevention of floods and cheap electricity
> Excellent road infrastructure of Motorways and Highways across Pakistan with multiple alternative routes for strategic purposes
> Carving out the deserts of Balochistan to link with rest of the country from various routes and finally connecting and bringing it on par with rest of the country.
> Creating millions of jobs in countless Industrial zones, road management, ports and energy projects
> Few billion dollars of tax each year for using the same infrastructure built by the Chinese (depending on the volume of trade of course)
> 
> Just a few benefits out of many




Benefit at what cost??

1. Fixing power tariff is foolish, the power/unit price is reducing every year. If power price go down, you will land paying chinese more by sucking Pakistani blood. (Another East India company)
2. Dam can be made using low interest loan, the high cost dam means high cost water. 
3. Infrastructure is good, but what is per unit cost?? You can get ceaper loans from Japan or USA. 
4. Job Creation is done by giving economical intrastructure, not costly one.. Look at Bangalore, The govt gave land at subside rate to make industries.. Currently by CPEC only China is creating Job not Pakistan. 
5. Few billion dollar of Tax from Pakistani and give it to Chinese.. Sound me like Zamindari Under Goras...
6. China never does fair Business, they will dump there cheap product in Pakistan and Pakistani industry will destroy in few years.. 

Good luck businessing with new "East Pakistan Company".. Mark this post and after 20 years you will remember my words..

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## Mujahid Memon

Welcome to 21st century colonialism.


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## Indo-Pak

Rain Man said:


> Interesting part is that China didn't invest in CPEC, they gave loan to Pakistan at fairly high rates and astronomically high ROI guarantee for infrastructure that will be primarily used by China, so whether the project succeeds or fails, China will earn its profits at the cost of Pakistan who is bearing all the investment risks.
> 
> What Pakistan will gain from it is not confirmed though, because the earnings from transit fees will go in servicing the loans, and the intangible benefits of better transit can only be realized if Pakistan develops enough manufacturing capabilities, which is more unlikely now given the fact that Chinese goods will flood Pakistani markets even more through CPEC, thereby killing the local industries further.
> 
> But it can be said without an iota of doubt that China will have extraordinary level of leverage over Pakistan through CPEC, Pakistan has taken huge loans from China at high rates and even higher (obscenely) ROI guarantees to develop a project for which they have only one primary client, China!! China can literally control Pakistan by controlling the use of that project, thereby effectively controlling the amount of transit fee that Pakistan can earn, but the interest and ROI burden for Pakistan remains constant....if I were a businessman, I would have been too uncomfortable to be in such a business deal.
> 
> @thesolar65 @PARIKRAMA @Spectre @Sky lord @Joe Shearer @scorpionx @hellfire @Levina @Nilgiri




Exactly This is what I wanted to say... U framed it perfectly



SrNair said:


> People in the power will wholeheartedly support them .
> Like a Pak member said in here ,Most of the assets of PA 's Generals are in Pakistan .And CPEC is their new landscape .
> 
> The answer lies in your post itself .
> Weapons can purchase from anywhere . Nor we asked them for aid .
> But Chinese are investing in your core area with heavy interest .
> Some thing we wont allow at any case in our nation




My dear friend, China is not investing, They are giving Pakistan loan, same money they are taking back for making roads. Its Chinese labor, Chinese firm.... 

It Fail or Pass China will milk Pakistani Taxpayer money, ... @Rain Man has framed it perfectly

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## fitpOsitive

Rashid Mahmood said:


> This project is basically part of the Chinese New Silk route project and Pakistan will also benefit from it coz of its strategic location.
> 
> My opinion is that all these countries who are now showing interest in joining the CPEC project are doing it only to jeopardise or sabotage this project and nothing else.
> 
> If you can't stop it, become a part of it, to sabotage it.
> 
> Well it's only my opinion, can be wrong.


I guess the main project is called OBOR?


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## Irfan Baloch

GumNaam said:


> Coming from the so called Pakistani lawmakers who rigged their way into the offices while keeping their entire wealth abroad, their words are a joke.
> 
> I'll take such statements seriously when it comes from a true leader who has all of his stakes and wealth inside the country.


they are butthurt because there is no cut or commission for them.. if they get anything for themselves they will praise it

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

shah1398 said:


> Dont worry. Nobody even listens to them. Things are progressing as planned. Nonetheless China aint here to occupy land or something, its their cargo that ll be moving on the roads, railways and ships here.


For the last thousands of years Chinese didn't or couldn't conquer other countries, rather they built a wall to isolate themselves. Will Pak be an exception???? good luck with that!!!

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## Trisonics

CPEC for all the hype should have started attracting healthy FDI into Pakistan by now. On the contrary countries traditionally investing in Pakistan seem to be leaving in a hurry. Power generated is useless if it cannot be transmitted effectively and correctly billed, a more comprehensive up-gradation of power delivery should have been planned.

Reliance solely on CPEC is very dangerous. There is very little news on emerging industrial projects with Pakistan. Traditionally strong industries like textiles are losing ground rapidly. 

The success of CPEC solely depends on how Pakistan can diversify resources, pay it's loans back and be more affirmative with China while nurturing several other industries. The economy and it's growth only looks healthy now because of the money inflow and all the construction activities but once it's all done will the real test begin. With other sources of FDI drying out, Pakistan's critical step should be to attract more FDI around CPEC which surprisingly should have been easier if global tenders were called while supporting local industries. 

The most worrisome factor being the hush-hush around CPEC. Given the South Asia has a terrible enemy withing itself called corruption, the suppressed information around CPEC is not confidence inspiring.

Whatever the outcome, hopefully, this is a learning chapter for other countries to emulate or discard in a hurry. Overall, not very confidence inspiring and has all the characteristics of another E India Company.



> With almost all countries that had traditionally invested in Pakistan now pulling out their investments, China has increased its FDI as part of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC).
> 
> 
> 
> Almost half of the total FDI that Pakistan received in the last fiscal year originated from China alone. FDI from China amounted to $593.9 million in 2015-16, which is up 131.3% from 2014-15 and constitutes 46.3% of the total FDI Pakistan received over the entire fiscal year.
> http://tribune.com.pk/story/1146075/2015-16-china-helps-fdi-pakistan-surges-38-8/


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## shah1398

HAKIKAT said:


> For the last thousands of years Chinese didn't or couldn't conquer other countries, rather they built a wall to isolate themselves. Will Pak be an exception???? good luck with that!!!



Good point Sir. If China had such ambitions then they wud have already showed such intentions by now. The episode of South China sea may be seen one such step but is it really so? Nonetheless we arent the only one in this mega project as we are just one part of one road one belt initiative.



Trisonics said:


> CPEC for all the hype should have started attracting healthy FDI into Pakistan by now. On the contrary countries traditionally investing in Pakistan seem to be leaving in a hurry.



With many countries showing their desire to join CPEC esp Afghanistan, KSA, Iran etc the most recent ones, how do U think they wud be joining this project? U dont just start getting fruit from a plant U planted about a year ago. Those plants who ll give U fruit for longer time, bear fruit lil late. Nonetheless I wud not shatter your balloon of delusions here so yeah u can carry on with what U think. Good Luck.

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## hacker J

CPEC can really be a gamechanger for pakistan as belived by most of the popuation no doubt it has some negative points as well but as long as pak people , government keep their heads up ryt on the progress of nation it is gonna blossom well but the moment they start moving money in their pockets or they start approving chinease bills just to remain in power not only the economy will suffer but the common man s life will become poorer, with so many loans and ending home grown products and indrustry pak might feel squzed below every growing debt and eventually can end up being bankrupt. which would be the worst possible outcome


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## jha

Politically motivated statements from Senators. Getting such big investment/loan, when no one else is willing, is a big achievement. Slowly but surely, its impact will come out in open.


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## Wet Shirt Contest

ito said:


> Coming from Pakistani law makers, this is serious matters.



Unfortunately, people have very naive views on china.


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## monitor

Fawad Masīd said:


> DID Russian take over India ?? instead of all dependence on russian hardwares ?? did USA take over Pakistan in last 50 years ?? did U.S take over india bcz India remained a big recipient of U.S aid ?? if your Ans is BIG NO then don't worry About Chinese investments in Pakistan...


Russia don't share border with India same as US don't border with Pakistan. But China have border with Pakistan and to secure it's silk route she will take every steps.

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## Syed Taha Wajahat

hahaha look at the source


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## Nilgiri

Echo_419 said:


> Do give a link to all this discussion about CPEC



Its all over the forum bro heh. Just search for CPEC.

What I was talking about was the similar loans of 24 billion or so that BD has now signed with China. You can find that flooding the BD subforum now.

People don't qualitatively analyse the difference between loans and FDI unfortunately.

Check this page of conversation to understand what I mean:

https://defence.pk/threads/baf-jets...sident-xi-on-his-visit-to-dhaka.455586/page-7



Rain Man said:


> Interesting part is that China didn't invest in CPEC, they gave loan to Pakistan at fairly high rates and astronomically high ROI guarantee for infrastructure that will be primarily used by China, so whether the project succeeds or fails, China will earn its profits at the cost of Pakistan who is bearing all the investment risks.
> 
> What Pakistan will gain from it is not confirmed though, because the earnings from transit fees will go in servicing the loans, and the intangible benefits of better transit can only be realized if Pakistan develops enough manufacturing capabilities, which is more unlikely now given the fact that Chinese goods will flood Pakistani markets even more through CPEC, thereby killing the local industries further.
> 
> But it can be said without an iota of doubt that China will have extraordinary level of leverage over Pakistan through CPEC, Pakistan has taken huge loans from China at high rates and even higher (obscenely) ROI guarantees to develop a project for which they have only one primary client, China!! China can literally control Pakistan by controlling the use of that project, thereby effectively controlling the amount of transit fee that Pakistan can earn, but the interest and ROI burden for Pakistan remains constant....if I were a businessman, I would have been too uncomfortable to be in such a business deal.
> 
> @thesolar65 @PARIKRAMA @Spectre @Sky lord @Joe Shearer @scorpionx @hellfire @Levina @Nilgiri



Same issue being repeated with BD. BD at least has higher GCF so has better chance of weather the repayments by leveraging those if things turn sour. Pakistan I am truly concerned about (GCF has been at around 15% for a good decade or more - about half of where it should have been). But am willing to be proven wrong. I will wait and see, I have discussed with the most skeptical and most fantastical of PDF minds on it....the whole spectrum has been covered for me, so I have little else to talk about it now

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## Śakra

Rain Man said:


> high ROI guarantee for infrastructure



That too by the government!

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## Lotus_stalk

No wonder mughals lost power in India... losing power in a country in which you are minority can be brutal... Loss of India was so shocking that, still people live in past... To add to the shock India supports Israel and USA...

Last mughal descendant was forced to apologize..


----------



## خره مينه لګته وي

monitor said:


> Russia don't share border with India same as US don't border with Pakistan. But China have border with Pakistan and to secure it's silk route she will take every steps.


USA dont have borders with EU countries & still their army is stationed there & invested billions of dollars but the question is what wud you call them ?? Slaves? EU is under U.S control ? They signed treaties & it works for them & they have understanding with each other's & they cooperate with each other in every field, so what is the problem if we are moving forward & strengthening our relationship with China & I'm in favor to have a same defence deal with China which usa & india signed earlier...*2011, the then prime minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani, expressed a desire to sign a defence deal with China during a trip to Beijing. At the time, the Chinese leadership advised Pakistan against such an agreement fearing that it might create a strain in Islamabad’s and Beijing’s relations with both Washington and New Delhi..*
*
How much India investmented in Bangladesh in last 3 decades ?? Any figures ?? It seems they dictate your foreign policy ?? I'm right ?? China assured to give a whopping 20+ billion $$ loans to Bangladesh but what makes you think that they're not capable of invading your country?? *



monitor said:


> Russia don't share border with India same as US don't border with Pakistan. But China have border with Pakistan and to secure it's silk route she will take every steps.


We also share border with India  what they can do except crying??

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## war&peace

Whenever there is a lack of transparency around any project, it gives a way to the suspicions to grow and given the corrupt and highly deceptive past and present of the Patwaris in power, these concerns are genuine and since CPEC is an economic project, it must be open and all the information available to the masses. Further, it should be handed over to army not only for transparency issues but also for speedy completion of the project.

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## SQ8

There are a lot of doubts on the implementation of CPEC which are valid. More importantly how the project has been tailored to provide maximum benefit to a single province.

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## halupridol

One way or other,elite bussiness ppl n ppl in power(both khaki - khaddar) will benefit,,not so sure abt the commoners.specially the tribal folk.

Tribal ppl of kpk baluchistan shud be very careful abt thr land,,,lease thm,never sell thm.look at similar projects over the world,,u will notice tht its always the tribal folk who end up with the worse bargain,,i have seen how civilized ppl cheat tribals.make it very difficult for an individual to sell land on thr own.permission frm village council/panchayat/jirga shud be made mandatory for such sales even if it is sold to govt. N be wary of corrupt leaders within ur own communities.

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## LeGenD

war&peace said:


> Whenever there is a lack of transparency around any project, it gives a way to the suspicions to grow and given the corrupt and highly deceptive past and present of the Patwaris in power, these concerns are genuine and since CPEC is an economic project, it must be open and all the information available to the masses. Further, it should be handed over to army not only for transparency issues but also for speedy completion of the project.


Yes, this is the point.


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## Dungeness

ito said:


> Coming from Pakistani law makers, this is serious matters.



Don't worry. Chinese are not Brits, and Pakistanis are certainly not Indians.

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## barbarosa

halupridol said:


> One way or other,elite bussiness ppl n ppl in power(both khaki - khaddar) will benefit,,not so sure abt the commoners.specially the tribal folk.
> 
> Tribal ppl of kpk baluchistan shud be very careful abt thr land,,,lease thm,never sell thm.look at similar projects over the world,,u will notice tht its always the tribal folk who end up with the worse bargain,,i have seen how civilized ppl cheat tribals.make it very difficult for an individual to sell land on thr own.permission frm village council/panchayat/jirga shud be made mandatory for such sales even if it is sold to govt. N be wary of corrupt leaders within ur own communities.


All those people * you mentioned in your artical * Respect China and Chinese people.

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## WhyCry

Dungeness said:


> Don't worry. Chinese are not Brits, and Pakistanis are certainly not Indians.


What you mean that they are not indians?? Do you mean to say they came from arab on donkeys?

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## Manidabest

majority of law makers r corrupt in Pakistan soo we dont take their statements soo seriously


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## danger007

war&peace said:


> Whenever there is a lack of transparency around any project, it gives a way to the suspicions to grow and given the corrupt and highly deceptive past and present of the Patwaris in power, these concerns are genuine and since CPEC is an economic project, it must be open and all the information available to the masses. Further, it should be handed over to army not only for transparency issues but also for speedy completion of the project.




Army role in economic activities ain't that good.. There should Independent commission to deal with project like this..


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## Sam.

HAKIKAT said:


> For the last thousands of years Chinese didn't or couldn't conquer other countries, rather they built a wall to isolate themselves. Will Pak be an exception???? good luck with that!!!


East Turkmenistan lol you are a joker and disgrace to Turkey.


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## IceCold

ito said:


> So much blind faith on China!


What has faith go to do with it. Its pure business and economics. Those having heart burns are not because they love Pakistan but because with such projects even areas like Balochistan which were under developed are now getting developed at full speed and entered into the main spectrum of economic activity of Pakistan. So yeah we take the nah Sayers with a pinch of salt.

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## SDS1

IceCold said:


> What has faith go to do with it. Its pure business and economics. Those having heart burns are not because they love Pakistan but because with such projects even areas like Balochistan which were under developed are now getting developed at full speed and entered into the main spectrum of economic activity of Pakistan. So yeah we take the nah Sayers with a pinch of salt.


Well yes pure Economics , we have seen when your railway buy china engines without testing and later China refused to take it back...pure business..
Tomorrow china will say , Electricity price will be 10Rs or 1$, you have to pay as you dont not have control over price fixing


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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

actually these are the only projects in national history where money is not going into politicians pockets. that's their concerns. it's actually investment which will give return in long turn.


----------



## Alternative

Aether said:


> What Pakistan actually gets is
> 
> 
> Energy crisis resolved - That we were not expecting even in 2040
> Dams finally built which will help in water storage, prevention of floods and cheap electricity
> Excellent road infrastructure of Motorways and Highways across Pakistan with multiple alternative routes for strategic purposes
> Carving out the deserts of Balochistan to link with rest of the country from various routes and finally connecting and bringing it on par with rest of the country.
> Creating millions of jobs in countless Industrial zones, road management, ports and energy projects
> Few billion dollars of tax each year for using the same infrastructure built by the Chinese (depending on the volume of trade of course)
> 
> Just a few benefits out of many





Rain Man said:


> Interesting part is that China didn't invest in CPEC, they gave loan to Pakistan at fairly high rates and astronomically high ROI guarantee for infrastructure that will be primarily used by China, so whether the project succeeds or fails, China will earn its profits at the cost of Pakistan who is bearing all the investment risks.
> 
> What Pakistan will gain from it is not confirmed though, because the earnings from transit fees will go in servicing the loans, and the intangible benefits of better transit can only be realized if Pakistan develops enough manufacturing capabilities, which is more unlikely now given the fact that Chinese goods will flood Pakistani markets even more through CPEC, thereby killing the local industries further.
> 
> But it can be said without an iota of doubt that China will have extraordinary level of leverage over Pakistan through CPEC, Pakistan has taken huge loans from China at high rates and even higher (obscenely) ROI guarantees to develop a project for which they have only one primary client, China!! China can literally control Pakistan by controlling the use of that project, thereby effectively controlling the amount of transit fee that Pakistan can earn, but the interest and ROI burden for Pakistan remains constant....if I were a businessman, I would have been too uncomfortable to be in such a business deal.
> 
> @thesolar65 @PARIKRAMA @Spectre @Sky lord @Joe Shearer @scorpionx @hellfire @Levina @Nilgiri





Joe Shearer said:


> It seems very unsound, but it is also true that it would have been difficult for Pakistan to get aid or investment for infrastructure development. From the point of view of building infrastructure, it is a good project.
> 
> From the point of view of losing autonomy and stacking the relationship full of pressure points, it is singularly dangerous.
> 
> Considering past history, Pakistan will withstand minor humiliations and trials for the sake of gaining some elevation with respect to what is now defaulting to be their sole enemy.





HAKIKAT said:


> For the last thousands of years Chinese didn't or couldn't conquer other countries, rather they built a wall to isolate themselves. Will Pak be an exception???? good luck with that!!!






Oscar said:


> There are a lot of doubts on the implementation of CPEC which are valid. More importantly how the project has been tailored to provide maximum benefit to a single province.



This thread is un-believable:
China is giving us soft loans to develop infrastructure, Motorways, roads, pipelines etc... Which China itself us..
And if only 10-15% of China's trade passes through this CPEC.. mark my words....Pakistan will be netting more than twice the repayment of loan per annum as transit fees.

Hack, even Pakistan would had netted $500-600 Million per annum in transit fees if Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline project has gone through.

CPEC will be a tremendous success, only because it makes perfect business case:

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## WhyCry

IceCold said:


> What has faith go to do with it. Its pure business and economics. Those having heart burns are not because they love Pakistan but because with such projects even areas like Balochistan which were under developed are now getting developed at full speed and entered into the main spectrum of economic activity of Pakistan. So yeah we take the nah Sayers with a pinch of salt.


Well taking into track records of china in african continent and pakistani polititians from the past the economics that work for pakistan is very less likely good. The addition of army into the same brings more godies for them. I am not sure who is footing the bill to keep everyone happy. 

FYI- pakistan has good wishes from my side for CPEC.


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## Joe Shearer

Alternative said:


> This thread is un-believable:
> China is giving us soft loans to develop infrastructure, Motorways, roads, pipelines etc... Which China itself us..
> And if only 10-15% of China's trade passes through this CPEC.. mark my words....Pakistan will be netting more than twice the repayment of loan per annum as transit fees.
> 
> Hack, even Pakistan would had netted $500-600 Million per annum in transit fees if Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline project has gone through.
> 
> CPEC will be a tremendous success, only because it makes perfect business case:



I am sure that everyone wishes the project well, except for Dubai. However, you should do your homework.

Are the loans indeed soft loans?
Will 10 to 15% of China's trade pass through the CPEC, especially if disturbed conditions prevail?
How have other Chinese funded projects done? How has Hampanthota done?
Who benefits from the project and the investment? How much does Pakistan get, specifically, how much benefit do the people of Pakistan get, as compared to the benefits for a provincial administration, and to an institution?


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## Alternative

Joe Shearer said:


> I am sure that everyone wishes the project well, except for Dubai. However, you should do your homework.
> 
> Are the loans indeed soft loans?
> Will 10 to 15% of China's trade pass through the CPEC, especially if disturbed conditions prevail?
> How have other Chinese funded projects done? How has Hampanthota done?
> Who benefits from the project and the investment? How much does Pakistan get, specifically, how much benefit do the people of Pakistan get, as compared to the benefits for a provincial administration, and to an institution?


Hi Joe,
Hoping to find you in good health.

1. Loans were offered @1.6% interest per annum, Few months back Nawaz Government decided to take up this rate to bring it at par with WorldBank rate, that is, 1%, with Chinese Government. I don't know about the result of that effort.
Repayment will be affected in 30 Year time period. Yea, it is a soft loan.

2. CPEC negotiation started in the tenor of Zardari Govt. And members on this forum must has noted that Zarb-e-Azb and Karachi Operation started about at the same time when CPEC was finalized. Signal is clear from China; Get your house in order for investment.

3. CPEC is a bypass artery for China; China's 98% trade is through sea; of this 60-70% passes through South China Sea; a bit of heat in this region will strictly hamper the trade of China. CPEC is the only credible, cost efficient option.
Underdeveloped westerner region of China are supplementary beneficiary.

4. For Pakistan it is Win-Win Situation.

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## STEVEN囧

The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts,while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
Pakistan friends have kinds of concerns and it is very normal.Chinese infrastructure is developing fast because of action but think twice,third and hundreds of times.Some indian friends have been questioning CPEC and Chinese intention.Don't humiliate Pakistani intelligence and Don't try to sabotage this project and it is no use.If possible,take care of Indian infrastructure more,Don't talk too much and doubt too much,action speaks lounder.

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## Alternative

STEVEN囧 said:


> The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts,while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
> Pakistan friends have kinds of concerns and it is very normal.Chinese infrastructure is developing fast because of action but think twice,third and hundreds of times.Some indian friends have been questioning CPEC and Chinese intention.Don't humiliate Pakistani intelligence and Don't try to sabotage this project and it is no use.If possible,take care of Indian infrastructure more,Don't talk too much and doubt too much,action speaks lounder.



True intelligence need right knowledge to be in full confidence; I am sure, in Pakistan, people at right places have full confidence in CPEC to deliver its potential.

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## Zibago

STEVEN囧 said:


> The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts,while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
> Pakistan friends have kinds of concerns and it is very normal.Chinese infrastructure is developing fast because of action but think twice,third and hundreds of times.Some indian friends have been questioning CPEC and Chinese intention.Don't humiliate Pakistani intelligence and Don't try to sabotage this project and it is no use.If possible,take care of Indian infrastructure more,Don't talk too much and doubt too much,action speaks lounder.


This was just discussion in senate which will have no impact on official position Indians are making a mountain out of a mole hill here

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## El_Swordsmen

_"Published in Dawn, October 18th, 2016"

credibility of article went out of the window !!_

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## asad71

Indian and American big businesses had joined up to bring in ultra rightist (some call him Nazi) Modi although entire Indian media and civil society had dubbed him the Butcher of Muslims in Gujarat. Under Modi India has signed many known and secret deals with Uncle Sam that has conclusively made India an America's dependency. In comparison, Emperor Shah Alam's Sanad to the E I Company had milder terms. It is not Pakistan but India which is allowing the neo-EI Co to enter SA. And don't forget the China man has no history of being a colonial power; the white man does.

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## wiseone2

GumNaam said:


> Coming from the so called Pakistani lawmakers who rigged their way into the offices while keeping their entire wealth abroad, their words are a joke.
> 
> I'll take such statements seriously when it comes from a true leader who has all of his stakes and wealth inside the country.


i think he was being sarcastic
i interpreted it that way



asad71 said:


> Indian and American big businesses had joined up to bring in ultra rightist (some call him Nazi) Modi although entire Indian media and civil society had dubbed him the Butcher of Muslims in Gujarat. Under Modi India has signed many known and secret deals with Uncle Sam that has conclusively made India an America's dependency. In comparison, Emperor Shah Alam's Sanad to the E I Company had milder terms. It is not Pakistan but India which is allowing the neo-EI Co to enter SA. And don't forget the China man has no history of being a colonial power; the white man does.



explain in what way is India dependent on Uncle Sam


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## Levina

قناص said:


> Why...


I guess you will have to reread @Rain Man 's post again.


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## Sine Nomine

Levina said:


> I guess you will have to reread @Rain Man 's post again.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Devil Soul said:


> *‘CPEC could become another East India Company’*
> SYED IRFAN RAZA — UPDATED ABOUT 3 HOURS AGO
> WHATSAPP
> 70 COMMENTS
> PRINT
> ISLAMABAD: Lawmakers from the upper house on Monday expressed the fear that the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) could turn into another East India Company if the country’s interests were not actively protected.
> 
> “Another East India Company is in the offing; national interests are not being protected. We are proud of the friendship between Pakistan and China, but the interests of the state should come first,” Senator Tahir Mashhadi, chairman of the Senate Standing Committee on Planning and Development, said when some committee members raised the concern that the government was not protecting the rights and interests of the people.
> 
> The East India Company was the British trading mission sent to India, which became the precursor to the British colonial presence in the subcontinent, eventually gaining power and overthrowing the Mughals who ruled India at the time.
> 
> Following a briefing by Planning Commission Secretary Yousuf Nadeem Khokhar, a number of committee members voiced their fears over what they perceived as the utilisation of local financing for CPEC projects, instead of funding from the Chinese or any other foreign investment. They also expressed concern over the fixing of power tariff for CPEC-related power projects by the Chinese.
> 
> *Senators question why most corridor projects are being funded locally, not through foreign investment*
> Since only one of three Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) members of the committee was present at the meeting, most of this criticism went unanswered. Even Senator Saeedul Hassan Mandokhail, the lone PML-N senator in attendance, endorsed the committee chairman’s complaints.
> 
> The meeting was informed that a major portion of the CPEC depended on local finances rather than Chinese investment.
> 
> “It will be very harmful for us if we have to bear the entire burden; will this [project] be a national development or a national calamity? Whatever loans taken from China will have to be paid by the poor people of Pakistan,” Mr Mashhadi observed.
> 
> Highlighting the status of CPEC-related power projects, the Planning Commission secretary said that the Matiari-Lahore transmission line project had “not been scrapped” and was being pursued by its Chinese sponsors.
> 
> Recently, the National Energy Power Regulatory Authority (Nepra) had approved tariff for the project, while the government’s Private Power Infrastructure Board had filed a review petition on the tariff in order to address the sponsors’ concerns.
> 
> At this, Senator Usman Khan Kakar pointed out that Nepra had fixed the power tariff for the project at 71 paisas/unit, while Chinese investors were demanding 95 paisas/unit.
> 
> “The government has filed an appeal before Nepra, seeking the increase despite the fact that the burden will be borne by poor consumers,” he said.
> 
> The secretary also informed the committee that the Gadani power plant complex had been shelved due to the lack of a dedicated jetty.
> 
> He also said that the 6,000MW project was not part of the CPEC.
> 
> Senator Kakar immediately reacted, saying that despite the fact that the project was not part of the CPEC, Chinese Ambassador Sun Weidong had recently claimed that the Gadani power plant had not been scrapped and was indeed a part of the corridor. “Why is this project, which does not even exist, being counted in our account?” he asked.
> 
> He said that the infrastructure being established in Gwadar would only benefit the Chinese and Punjab governments, not the local community. “The people of Balochistan will only get one benefit from this project, which is the water supply,” he said, adding that no electricity or railway projects had been planned for Balochistan under the CPEC.
> 
> Senator Mandokhail said that a sense of deprivation was being instilled in smaller provinces. “We do not want the CPEC at the cost of the federation,” he added.
> 
> Since Minister for Planning and Development Ahsan Iqbal was not present in the meeting, the senator urged the secretary to advise him to ensure the integrity of the federation.
> 
> Senator Mandokhail also accused the Planning Commission of prioritising Balochistan very low on its list, given that it has not representation in the commission itself.
> 
> Jamaat-i-Islami Emir Senator Sirajul Haq said that like certain other parts of the country, Fata and AJK were also being neglected in the CPEC. “There is nothing for both areas in the CPEC,” he said and suggested that a 35km road was built to link Muzaffarabad to the CPEC so that the people of AJK could also reap its benefits.
> 
> _Published in Dawn, October 18th, 2016_
> 
> 
> WHATSAPP
> 70 COMMENTS
> PRINT




CPEC will make Pakistan into a middle income country like Turkey while these lawmakers have never ever done anything good for Pakistan and are more than happy to make a fortune through corruption. They are failures themselves and want others to fail because they envy them. Rather than barking, get up and do something good for Pakistan yourselves.

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## asad71

wiseone2 said:


> i think he was being sarcastic
> i interpreted it that way
> 
> 
> 
> explain in what way is India dependent on Uncle Sam



In ways that a slave is dependent on the master.

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## ssethii

Man, I really enjoy reading the concerns Indians show for us and certainly their asses are on fire on this one. Threads like these and Arnab Goswami's shows related to Pakistan really make my day. I have gone further and distributed some likes to my fellows from across the border who made me roll with laughter.

OT : Pakistan should play well planned proactive policies in this region instead of sitting idle forever and waiting for the right moment. For example Pakistan's involvement in Afghan war was prime example in the past that Pakistan had it's day of glory until the brains behind the policy were crashed and everything kept falling onto us and nobody had the vision to continue to build on the previous work done. Sure there will be fallout for such plans but the bottom line is we have to take the risk and manage it well and grab all the little opportunities available at our doorsteps and make them work. It's do or die for us until we defeat our enemies around us one by one. We will surely not forget those who turned their backs on us and who lend their hand for help.


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## wiseone2

asad71 said:


> In ways that a slave is dependent on the master.


be specific ... you can do better than that


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## Śakra

Alternative said:


> And *if* only 10-15% of China's trade passes through this CPEC



If I had a billion dollars I would be a billionaire.


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## dray

Alternative said:


> Loans were offered @1.6% interest per annum, Few months back Nawaz Government decided to take up this rate to bring it at par with WorldBank rate, that is, 1%, with Chinese Government. I don't know about the result of that effort.
> Repayment will be affected in 30 Year time period. Yea, it is a soft loan.



Not all loans are at 1.6%, different rates are applicable in different projects within the CPEC, and some of the rates are much higher. Besides, with the sovereign guarantee of ROI, the interest+ROI guarantee are going up to 32%-33% in some cases. We had detailed discussion with links etc. previously, if you want I can find and provide that thread to you.

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## A_Poster

Alternative said:


> 1. Loans were offered @1.6% interest per annum, Few months back Nawaz Government decided to take up this rate to bring it at par with WorldBank rate, that is, 1%, with Chinese Government. I don't know about the result of that effort.
> Repayment will be affected in 30 Year time period. Yea, it is a soft loan.



If you could get loan from WB at cheaper rate than you can from Chinese, than it is not a soft loan.

Even WB loans have very long repayment period, usually upward of 40 years.



Rain Man said:


> Not all loans are at 1.6%, different rates are applicable in different projects within the CPEC, and some of the rates are much higher. Besides, with the sovereign guarantee of ROI, the interest+ROI guarantee are going up to 32%-33% in some cases. We had detailed discussion with links etc. previously, if you want I can find and provide that thread to you.




If it does not trouble you much, you should list that thread. I would like to read it from economic viewpoint.

PS: PDF has got banned in India. Though my ISP has a very faulty ban software, so if you refresh your browser, it gives you access to PDF.


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## dray

A_Poster said:


> If it does not trouble you much, you should list that thread. I would like to read it from economic viewpoint.



https://defence.pk/threads/the-real-face-of-cpec-destroying-pakistani-industry.435931/

Check the entire thread...

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## Alternative

Śakra said:


> If I had a billion dollars I would be a billionaire.


It seem that you are not a billionnaire; CPEC with its potentail is a reality.
If you look at the map of region, you will notice that CPEC provide the shortest possible route to Russia to hot waters of Arabian Sea. Moreover, if India wanted to send a shipment to Russia, the shortest possible route in term of Cost and Time, is of course, through CPEC.
I will not be surprised that Russia will be a part in near future.
Iran wants to be a part of CPEC: Oil and Gas can be pumped through easily and efficiently to huge market of China.

CPEC makes a perfect business case.



Rain Man said:


> Not all loans are at 1.6%, different rates are applicable in different projects within the CPEC, and some of the rates are much higher. Besides, with the sovereign guarantee of ROI, the interest+ROI guarantee are going up to 32%-33% in some cases. We had detailed discussion with links etc. previously, if you want I can find and provide that thread to you.



Thank you for your post.

Please bear in mind when a Lender provides a Loan (an interest bearing loan) then for the amount invested/given as a loan the the ROI is the interest rate agreed.

Other Scenario is where, two or more parties come together for a venture as partners; in this senario, ROI will be calculated on the basis of profitability earned from that venture.
Please don't mix up the two different things.

In addition to CPEC, there are many projects that are being done with different Chinese Companies and Banks.



A_Poster said:


> If you could get loan from WB at cheaper rate than you can from Chinese, than it is not a soft loan.
> 
> Even WB loans have very long repayment period, usually upward of 40 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it does not trouble you much, you should list that thread. I would like to read it from economic viewpoint.
> 
> PS: PDF has got banned in India. Though my ISP has a very faulty ban software, so if you refresh your browser, it gives you access to PDF.



World Bank Loans have lots and lots of strings, condition, milestone etc. are attached. And who in the World Bank has given us $ 40 Billion investment and ensured the means to repay it.
China came itself with the proposal. A God send, indeed.
As I said earlier, I don't have an update whether Nawaz Government was successful on rate reduction; even then, It will not cost a penny to Pakistan, but instead result in steady revenue streams.
You are correct about the tenure of world Bank Loan; +30 year tenure is not a bad one either.

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## New World

their objections are valid. 
even new Commander Southern Command has already raised the questions.


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## posedion

China has a huge population to look after all they will only see their Interest and if anybody thinks otherwise good luck


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## Alternative

Rain Man said:


> https://defence.pk/threads/the-real-face-of-cpec-destroying-pakistani-industry.435931/
> 
> Check the entire thread...



Just WOW...WOW....
Thread is started by 'somebozo', doing some justice to his name in that thread.

How would the CPEC would be destroying Pakistani industry: How Pipeline, Motorways, Railways, Road etc. would destroy Pakistani industries? 
Originally Chinese came up with the "Corridor" proposal, that is, Pipeline, Pipeline, Motorways, Railways, Road, Gawader Port, etc... Nawaz Government wanted more; Power generations projects, orange train, industrial parks etc. 
The Cost of loans (interest rate) for "Corridor" is from zero percent (Gawader Port) to 1.6% (if not 1%).

Other Commercial Project,that directly generate revenue and profits, if financing is in the form of Loan, still very competitive rates. 

Impact of cheap imports from China has impacted the Pakistani local industry for decades now through the auspices of FTA, how CPEC is going to change that equation to worse? No where answered in the thread.


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## dray

Alternative said:


> Just WOW...WOW....
> Thread is started by 'somebozo', doing some justice to his name in that thread.
> 
> How would the CPEC would be destroying Pakistani industry: How Pipeline, Motorways, Railways, Road etc. would destroy Pakistani industries?
> Originally Chinese came up with the "Corridor" proposal, that is, Pipeline, Pipeline, Motorways, Railways, Road, Gawader Port, etc... Nawaz Government wanted more; Power generations projects, orange train, industrial parks etc.
> The Cost of loans (interest rate) for "Corridor" is from zero percent (Gawader Port) to 1.6% (if not 1%).
> 
> Other Commercial Project,that directly generate revenue and profits, if financing is in the form of Loan, still very competitive rates.
> 
> Impact of cheap imports from China has impacted the Pakistani local industry for decades now through the auspices of FTA, how CPEC is going to change that equation to worse? No where answered in the thread.



Yes, wow! That thread was a good one with many pages of information, read that thread, you will get answers to all your queries.


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## Alternative

Rain Man said:


> Yes, wow! That thread was a good one with many pages of information, read that thread, you will get answers to all your queries.



I don't have any question, that are needed to be answered on viability of CPEC.
CPEC is a WIN WIN WIN.............for PAKISTAN.


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