# The Khalistan Diaries



## Khalistan Patriot

*Mann raises pro-Khalistan slogans in Takht Damdama Sahib* PTI | 

11:04 PM,Apr 14,2011 
Bathinda, Apr 14 (PTI) Radical Sikh leader Simranjeet Singh Mann today stormed the Takht Damdama Sahib at Talwandi Sabo near Bathinda during the Baisakhi festival celebrations and raised pro Khalistan slogans there.Although the area was fortified to prevent his entry there, Mann reached the Takht, which is one of the five Takhts of Sikh religion, alongwith over 150 supporters and raised pro-Khalistan and pro-Bhinderanwale slogans.Thousands of devotees from various parts of Punjab offered obeisance at the Gurdwara and also participated in the political conferences organised by various parties, including the ruling Shiromani Akali Dal and the Congress.

Mann raises pro-Khalistan slogans in Takht Damdama Sahib, IBN Live News

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## Safriz

oh,khalistan movement rekindled? Good good. I wonder if dilair mehdi becomes prime minister of newly indipendant khalistam. The national anthem willbe 'turuk turuk tuk turuk turuk tuk . Turuk tiruk tuk. Tana naa

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## shuntmaster




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## Ajaxpaul

safriz said:


> oh,khalistan movement rekindled? Good good. I wonder if dilair mehdi becomes prime minister of newly indipendant khalistam. The national anthem willbe 'turuk turuk tuk turuk turuk tuk . Turuk tiruk tuk. Tana naa


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## arihant

safriz said:


> oh,khalistan movement rekindled? Good good. I wonder if dilair mehdi becomes prime minister of newly indipendant khalistam. The national anthem willbe 'turuk turuk tuk turuk turuk tuk . Turuk tiruk tuk. Tana naa


 
Funny Song buddy.

Need to have few joke stroke to continue my life.


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## Bhim

neave nave bazaebatoo paida honde rehnde hai..


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Good for him.

He required to clear his throat!


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## Karachiite

safriz said:


> oh,khalistan movement rekindled? Good good. I wonder if dilair mehdi becomes prime minister of newly indipendant khalistam. The national anthem willbe 'turuk turuk tuk turuk turuk tuk . Turuk tiruk tuk. Tana naa


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## LaBong

Anyone can raise pro-anything slogan in India as long as he remains non-violent.

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## twoplustwoisfour

Abir said:


> Anyone can raise pro-anything slogan in India as long as he remains non-violent.


 
Isn't calling for the formation of a new nation state carved out of India an act of sedition?


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## LaBong

twoplustwoisfour said:


> Isn't calling for the formation of a new nation state carved out of India an act of sedition?


 
It's not act of sedition as long as it doesn't cause anarchy or make people disobey government. However the line is blurred between mere criticism and act of sedition.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Very often, say what you will, a knave is only a fool.
Voltaire


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## LaBong

Section 124A



> Sedition. Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by signs, or by visible representation, or otherwise, brings or attempts to bring into hatred or contempt, or excites or attempts to excite disaffection towards, the Government established by law in India, shall be punished with imprisonment for life, to which fine may be added, or with imprisonment which may extend to three years, to which fine may be added, or with fine



Explanation 3 :



> Comments expressing disapprobation of the administrative or other action of the Government without exciting or attempting to excite hatred, contempt or disaffection, do not constitute an offence under this section.

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## punit

let him shout to his heart content ...


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## twoplustwoisfour

It can be argued that his comments are an attempt to cause disaffection towards the government. His speech intends to undermine the authority of Government of India over its territory.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Mann is irrelevant to the Indian polity.

He has no meaning in life.

No one wastes any breath on him these days.

As good as creaky discarded furniture in the godown for rubbish.


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## punit

^ the guy is just an attention monger . arresting him now will only give him the publicity he want. but do keep a watch for any terror activity .


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## Prometheus

and mann wonder why no one votes for him

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## BlueDot_in_Space

In the times of globalization, ppl still harbor such thinking. Send this guy to moon, he can make what ever country out there.


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## rajusri

khalistan has gone long ago but still in heart of some people in our neighborhood.  bechara..... lol


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## Abingdonboy

As a Sikh this news saddens me although I know this man represents a VERY SMALL MINORITY. Whilst there is a case for greater autonomy for the Punjab state aswell as proportiante standing I am aware most Sikhs are more than happy to be part of modern India with its TRILLION dollar economy. And why shouldn't they? Sikhs, for their small numbers have done great things for their motherland, she is as much theirs as anyone elses right? 

I see that many Pakistanis are happy at this news- this probably stems because then they could say- look at India they have the same problems we do, radicalised insurgencies, it's not our fault. Give us more money. Well to any SANE person there is just no comparison between India and Pakistan in any field, in a few years/generations the idea of Khalistan will be long since dead, Sikhs are a proud and brave people who will continue to work with their fellow INDIAN brothers and sisters for INDIA. This seems to be what you Pakistanis lack- a sense of unity, it seems it is still very tribalistic in nature, in Pakistani forums there is always talk of this region and that.

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## foxbat

safriz said:


> oh,khalistan movement rekindled? Good good. I wonder if dilair mehdi becomes prime minister of newly indipendant khalistam. The national anthem willbe 'turuk turuk tuk turuk turuk tuk . Turuk tiruk tuk. Tana naa


 
That my friend was priceless


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## madooxno9

currency .... wowwwww


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## blood

Abingdonboy said:


> As a Sikh this news saddens me although I know this man represents a VERY SMALL MINORITY. Whilst there is a case for greater autonomy for the Punjab state aswell as proportiante standing I am aware most Sikhs are more than happy to be part of modern India with its TRILLION dollar economy. And why shouldn't they? Sikhs, for their small numbers have done great things for their motherland, she is as much theirs as anyone elses right?
> 
> I see that many Pakistanis are happy at this news- this probably stems because then they could say- look at India they have the same problems we do, radicalised insurgencies, it's not our fault. Give us more money. Well to any SANE person there is just no comparison between India and Pakistan in any field, in a few years/generations the idea of Khalistan will be long since dead, Sikhs are a proud and brave people who will continue to work with their fellow INDIAN brothers and sisters for INDIA. This seems to be what you Pakistanis lack- a sense of unity, it seems it is still very tribalistic in nature, in Pakistani forums there is always talk of this region and that.


 
bro, these pakistani's are desperate to see our country break, because we split thier country into two piece's in 1971.punjab is our nation's pride we will never let it go at any cost, let the pakistani's keep dreaming.my simple question to pakistani's is that , if sikh's don't consider india as thier motherland then why do so many sikh's join the indian army and fight for us at the border's? pakistan asked for kashmir and you lost bangladesh, now when you are thinking of spliting punjab from us i am sure you will lose balochistan now.

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## Truth Teller

blood said:


> bro, these pakistani's are desperate to see our country break, because we split thier country into two piece's in 1971.punjab is our nation's pride we will never let it go at any cost, let the pakistani's keep dreaming.my simple question to pakistani's is that , if sikh's don't consider india as thier motherland then why do so many sikh's join the indian army and fight for us at the border's? pakistan asked for kashmir and you lost bangladesh, now when you are thinking of spliting punjab from us i am sure you will lose balochistan now.


 
Tell that to the 30,793 sikhs on this FB page:

NeverForget1984.com | Facebook

Do you think these sikhs love india,or are they pakistanis pretending to be sikhs?

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## DelhiDareDevil

But, how can Khalisthan get land of Pakistan?


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## Truth Teller

Abingdonboy said:


> As a Sikh this news saddens me although I know this man represents a VERY SMALL MINORITY. Whilst there is a case for greater autonomy for the Punjab state aswell as proportiante standing I am aware most Sikhs are more than happy to be part of modern India with its TRILLION dollar economy. And why shouldn't they? Sikhs, for their small numbers have done great things for their motherland, she is as much theirs as anyone elses right?
> 
> I see that many Pakistanis are happy at this news- this probably stems because then they could say- look at India they have the same problems we do, radicalised insurgencies, it's not our fault. Give us more money. Well to any SANE person there is just no comparison between India and Pakistan in any field, in a few years/generations the idea of Khalistan will be long since dead, Sikhs are a proud and brave people who will continue to work with their fellow INDIAN brothers and sisters for INDIA. This seems to be what you Pakistanis lack- a sense of unity, it seems it is still very tribalistic in nature, in Pakistani forums there is always talk of this region and that.


 
Do you think the 30,793 sikhs who like this FB page will agree with you?



blood said:


> bro, these pakistani's are desperate to see our country break, because we split thier country into two piece's in 1971.punjab is our nation's pride we will never let it go at any cost, let the pakistani's keep dreaming.my simple question to pakistani's is that , if sikh's don't consider india as thier motherland then why do so many sikh's join the indian army and fight for us at the border's? pakistan asked for kashmir and you lost bangladesh, now when you are thinking of spliting punjab from us i am sure you will lose balochistan now.


 
Tell that to the 30,793 sikhs on this FB page:

NeverForget1984.com | Facebook

btw, why is it that most sikhs living in western countries dont call themselves "indians"?

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## foxbat

Truth Teller said:


> Tell that to the 30,793 sikhs on this FB page:
> 
> NeverForget1984.com | Facebook
> 
> Do you think these sikhs love india,or are they pakistanis pretending to be sikhs?


 
30 K misguided sikhs making a noise out of a total population of 23 million or so in a country of 1.2 billion currently being managed by a Sikh..?? Yeah.. go ahead and give it a LOT of importance ..

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## KS

Truth Teller said:


> NeverForget1984.com | Facebook


 
No body asks them to forget. But still they can be Indians. That's the beauty which you unfortunately would not be able to understand



foxbat said:


> 30 K misguided sikhs making a noise out of a total population of 23 million or so in a country of 1.2 billion currently being managed by a Sikh..?? Yeah.. go ahead and give it a LOT of importance ..


 
How many of those 30 K are in India is the most important question. The opinions of Canadians or UK Sikhs does not affect the belief if an Indian Sikh in India.

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## killeragent

Truth Teller said:


> Tell that to the 30,793 sikhs on this FB page:
> 
> NeverForget1984.com | Facebook
> 
> Do you think these sikhs love india,or are they pakistanis pretending to be sikhs?


 

These are the one seeking justice...even am on that facebook "like" list..
Why?
If we sikhs even forget 84, how are culprits of 84 ever gonna get in jails..

To be honest..Deep inside me ..i know that justice delayed is justice denied, i also know that real culprits(who killed people) would never be found.
This is the only one thing that hurts of being an indian..


Despite all this, i still do not support khalistan

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## Prometheus

Truth Teller said:


> Tell that to the 30,793 sikhs on this FB page:
> 
> NeverForget1984.com | Facebook
> 
> Do you think these sikhs love india,or are they pakistanis pretending to be sikhs?



i am one of them..............so what?

never forget 1984 is of attak on akal thakt and riots.

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## DelhiDareDevil

Truth Teller said:


> btw, why is it that most sikhs living in western countries dont call themselves "indians"?


 
Cause they are Indians, just like 200m+ other muslims in India.


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## Roby

Truth Teller said:


> Do you think these sikhs love india,or are they *pakistanis pretending to be sikhs?*



May be they are - just like the thread starter.


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## Prometheus

DelhiDareDevil said:


> But, how can Khalisthan get land of Pakistan?



i want my lahore back.............pakistan stole it

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## killeragent

BTW does any of my pakistani fella know the capital of old sikh empire and if khalistan advances, the future capital..

Ohhhh Yeahhhhhhhhhh LAHORE


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## DelhiDareDevil

Prometheus said:


> i want my lahore back.............pakistan stole it


 
Yeh, if India ever goes to war with Pakistan again, instead of beating them, we should also take rest of Punjab back of them too. 

ps. Im happy Ludihanna is in India.


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## Roby

Truth Teller said:


> btw, why is it that most sikhs living in western countries dont call themselves "indians"?



May be they are citizens of that country.


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## indianpatriot

CONGRESS HAS DONE DISASTERS>>>ONE WAS CREATION OF PAKISTAN LETTING HAPPEN AND SECOND WAS1984 RIOTS..though I think OP blue star was needed just like attack on Lal Masjid by Pakistan because they had some sinister objectives in head.

For those who think it was Hindu vs Sikh thing..being a member of RSS myself ..we fought against congress mercenaries during the riots.Khushwant Singh wo is always critical about RSS said tis about 1984

*"RSS has played an honorable role in maintaining Hindu-Sikh unity before and after the murder of Indira Gandhi in Delhi and in other places"
"It was the Congress (I) leaders who instigated mobs in 1984 and got more than 3000 people killed. I must give due credit to RSS and the BJP for showing courage and protecting helpless Sikhs during those difficult days. No less a person than Atal Bihari Vajpayee himself intervened at a couple of places to help poor taxi drivers.*

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## Truth Teller

indianpatriot said:


> CONGRESS HAS DONE DISASTERS>>>ONE WAS CREATION OF PAKISTAN LETTING HAPPEN AND SECOND WAS1984 RIOTS..though I think OP blue star was needed just like attack on Lal Masjid by Pakistan because they had some sinister objectives in head.
> 
> For those who think it was Hindu vs Sikh thing..being a member of RSS myself ..we fought against congress mercenaries during the riots.


 
the biggest disaster was the creation of india in 1947.


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## indianpatriot

Truth Teller said:


> the biggest disaster was the creation of india in 1947.



No it wasn't India represent 1/6th of world popl rapidly developing from poor to richess..the biggest disaster was creation of Pakistan in 1947 even the founder of your country Jinnah admitted that..

he said following lines
"I acted according to my best judgment but the way things have shaped since then has made me realize that this was perhaps the greatest blunder of my political life."
source

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## Truth Teller

the source is an indian nationalist source.why would you even bother posting that.


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## Khalistan Patriot

*1984 Sikh Genocide: Witness pressurised to save Sajjan Kumar*








April 14th, 2011

Delhi, India: For more than 26 years, the victims of the 1984 Sikh Genocide have been fighting a long and lonely battle for justice. Justice is not only being delayed but virtually denied by powerful Congress leaders  ironically even by those whose job is to protect the interests of the minorities.

Former member of Parliament Sajjan Kumar has been accused of instigating mobs to kill innocent Sikhs in 1984 in the aftermath of Indira Gandhis assassination. However, Harinder Baweja, Editor, investigations, has exposed the ugly, uncomfortable truth about him.

A special investigation by Headlines Today has found that Nirpreet Kaur, a key witness against Sajjan Kumar, was being pressurised by H.S. Hanspal, a senior member of the Minorities Commission.

Hanspal, a prominent Congressman, who was the chief whip for the party in the Rajya Sabha in the early 80s, can be seen, sitting in his office, speaking to Nirpreet Kaur, who saw Sajjan Kumar come to Raj Nagar locality in Delhi Cantt during the riots and say, Ek bhi sardar zinda nahi bachna chaheye (Not a single sardar should remain alive).

In the meeting in his office, he tells Nirpreet to sit down aamne saamne (face-to-face) with the person she was to soon testify against. Headlines Today accompanied Nirpreet to Hanspals office. The Minorities Commission member was a bit wary of a stranger but that doesnt stop him from trying to persuade Nirpreet to have a meeting with Sajjan Kumar.

Hanspal (in Punjabi): Compensation wali gal karni heh yaan doosri gal karni heh (You want to talk about compensation or the other thing?)

Nirpreet: Tussi unha nu puchho, ko o ki chande neh (You ask him (Sajjan Kumar) what he wants.

A little later

Hanspal (gesturing towards the Headlines Today reporter): Can we talk for two minutes?
koi nahi, enna nu patta hai sab kuchh kyon ki mein kuchh witness toh chuppana nahi chandi jo vi hoyega enha de samne hoyega. (Never mind, he knows everything because I dont want to hide anything from the witnesses).

A little later

Nirpreet: Dekho, marya taan hai unha ne. Uthe aa ke meri gal khadi ho jaandi heh. Chalo, thwade kehan the, mein case vapas vi ley laine haan, par o kuchh taan karan, public apology. Kuchh mehsoos taan karan (See, he has murdered.. that is where I get stuck. Even if I withdraw the case because you are telling me to, he should also do something, some public apology. He should also feel that he has done a wrong).

Hanspal: Amne saamne baith ke gal kar lo (Sit in front of each other and talk).

Nirpreet: O court vich aande ne, hasde khedde, mera haur man sarda heh. Unha nu bilkul vi sharma nahi heh ki assi enna vada kam keet heh. (He (Sajjan) comes to court smiling and it makes me feel worse. He has no shame; no realization that he has done such a big crime.

Hanspal: Baith ke gal karan ge.

Hanspal is not speaking about compensation, as his job profile demands. He continues to exert pressure on Nirpreet. He wants her to sit face-to-face with Sajjan Kumar and he keeps telling her, not once but three times, to call Ahulwalia, a common friend.

Hanspal: Should I call Ahluwalia?

Nirpreet: Hearings are on in the court. Ill call him.

Hanspal is keen on an early meeting and once again says he could call Ahluwalia.

Nirpreet: Can you give me his number?

Hanspal: Shall I call Ahluwalia? I have his number.

Nirpreet: Yes please call.

Hanspal: Tussi mainu shaam nu das deyo (Let me know by the evening). Kal ya parso beh jao (Sit down tomorrow or the day after).

Nirpreet has not just given graphic details of how her father, Nirmal Singh, was killed, but has now also testified in court on what exactly happened that morning in 1984, when Sajjan Kumar came to the Raj Bagh locality, where she stayed with her parents.

Nirpreet Kaur says, The mob caught hold of my father. Balwan Khokhar and Mahendra Yadav were there. They sprinkled kerosene over him and started looking for a match box and a policeman told them, doob maro, tum se ek sardar bhi nahi jalta and then the policeman gave them a match box to set my father on fire. My father jumped into a nearby nullah to save himself, but the mob came back and Khokhar hit my father with a rod.

The next morning, on November 2, Nirpreet saw Congress leader Sajjan Kumar standing in a police jeep and addressing a mob. I saw a mob and heard the noise of slogans. Our vehicle stopped there and I saw that in the police vehicle Sajjan Kumar was standing and was addressing the mob, saying Ek bhi sardar jinda nahi bachna chahiye, jo ghar sardaron ka bacha hai, use bhi jala do. In sardaron ko maron, inhone hamari maan ko mara heh, ye saanp ke bachche hain

This is the testimony, Sajjan Kumar and his mediators wanted to stop. Nirpreets startling claim is that she was offered as much as Rs three crore to turn hostile.

Headlines Today tried to contact senior Congress leader Sajjan Kumar, but he refused to comment.

Says Nirpreet, I was offered Rs three crore to change my testimony. Hanspal kept telling me to not mention Sajjan Kumars name.

Global Sikh News » 1984 Sikh Genocide: Witness pressurised to save Sajjan Kumar

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## rajusri

Khalistan! 
Capital: Lahore 





DO YOU SUPPORT IT NOW? 

PM

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## DelhiDareDevil

rajusri said:


> Khalistan!
> Capital: Lahore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DO YOU SUPPORT IT NOW?
> 
> PM



Well to be honest, Khalisthan will mainly have land from India then Pakistan.

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## rajusri

DelhiDareDevil said:


> Well to be honest, Khalisthan will mainly have land from India then Pakistan.


 
well Khalistan will have Indian Punjab and Pakistani Punjab. Still there is large enough area in India but what left for Pakistan? lol

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## ramu

Wet dreams. What is the basis for the creation of Khalistan? Who are the people who support Khalistan. None in India, not sure in Pakistan but the truth will not be different.

Next, you are posting in wrong section. Not sure why Mods ignore this sh!t.

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## Abingdonboy

^^^ Brother as a fellow Sikh I feel your pain, I agree the scum who committed these horrendous crimes need to be located and brought to justice. But India today is much different than 1984, even then it was only a very small minority of cowards who committed such crimes. Sikhs are at the core of modern day India, they are proud people who carry India on their backs. Please stop starting these hate filled Khalistani threads, it does no good for anyone as today the idea of Khalistan has long winced past. Modern day India looms. Sikhs with their Hindu, Christian, Jewish, Jain (etc) working together for the motherland cannot can accomish anything. 

"...Each Hindu family should convert at least one child into Singh, who can take care of this world which is our family..."-Pandit Maddan Mohan Malwia

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## tallboy123

a sikh is india's prime minister.....

This nothing but thread to create differences ....
it doesnt work...
Sikhs are part of our culture,and they r part of india.....


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## rajusri

*Sikh regiment of the Indian Army *

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## IndianArmy

I demand *Mallusthan*, Anyone???....

Khalistan is nothing but Pakistan in Urdu... "Land of Pure" ... So technically one has been formed decades back...

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## tallboy123

NO khalistan....just India


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## rajusri

*Prime Minister of India*

*Dr. Manmohan Singh *


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## GUNS-N- ROSES

IndianArmy said:


> I demand *Mallusthan*, Anyone???....
> 
> Khalistan is nothing but Pakistan in Urdu... "Land of Pure" ... So technically one has been formed decades back...


 
no sir u r wrong, mallus have already colonised the whole world. same goes for sikhs.


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## rajusri

IndianArmy said:


> I demand *Mallusthan*, Anyone???....
> 
> Khalistan is nothing but Pakistan in Urdu... "Land of Pure" ... So technically one has been formed decades back...



Latest news, New yorkers want Yorkistan!  

khalistan dream long ago but some people cannot forget it!  Let us see where Sikhs stands in India.


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## The HBS Guy

*lol sikhs celebrating India's win!

There goes your Khalistan *































*You can see how much the sikhs want Khalistan *

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## blackops

what a crap load of bs come to india go to a sikh community and ask them to betray india and support khalistan he will chop you into pieces for just asking him to betray india leave the idea of khalistan

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## tallboy123

*Only Hinduism,Sikhism,Buddhism,Jainism are the religions of India..... that's it*
*others are just converts*


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## blackops

tallboy123 said:


> *Only Hinduism,Sikhism,Buddhism,Jainism are the religions of India..... that's it*


 
where are christians and where is islam

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## IndianArmy

GUNS-N- ROSES said:


> no sir u r wrong, mallus have already colonised the whole world. same goes for sikhs.


 
Yeah, Mallus are everywhere, So are the Sikh Community.... In the Indian Army, There is no morale Lifting battle cry than * "Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh"* Sikh Regiment and *"Jai Maha Kali, Ayo Gorkha Li"* from the Gorkha Regiment, Morale Starts Oozing out of you...

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## rajusri

*Sikhs are on the forefront of India, calling for such 'khalistan' is making fun only! *

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## tallboy123

is this todays news???


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## foxbat

rajusri said:


> Latest news, New yorkers wants Yorkistan!
> 
> khalistan dream long ago but some people cannot forget it!  Let us see where Sikhs stands in India.


 
Right behind this man


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## rajusri

Sikhs in India...

Major Kuldip Singh Chandpuri of famous Longewala battale 





Lt Gen Jagjit Singh Arora, commanding officer of Indian and Banglaeshi forces in Bangladesh





General JJ Singh, former chief of Indian army





presidents guard

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## metro

tallboy123 said:


> *Only Hinduism,Sikhism,Buddhism,Jainism are the religions of India..... that's it*
> *others are just converts*


 
Buddy there was no no need of this post.

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## Mech

IndianArmy said:


> I demand *Mallusthan*, Anyone???....
> 
> Khalistan is nothing but Pakistan in Urdu... "Land of Pure" ... So technically one has been formed decades back...


 
i support......except... I prefer 'mallu'- land. 

VS as our national animal, pinarayi - national bird and murali- national coconut.


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## IndianArmy

Mech said:


> i support......except... I prefer 'mallu'- land.
> 
> VS will be national animal, pinarayi - national bird and murali- national coconut.


 
Accept your demands, if you promise to drop 50% of the tax levied from mallu land in my home... If thats the deal, I accept your demands...


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## tallboy123

blackops said:


> where are christians and where is islam


 
Did christianity and islam originated in india????



> Buddy there was no no need of this post.


isn't it true that Hinduism,Buddhism,Jaininsm and sikhism originated in india???
wats wrong in that???
they originated in india and they are the the religions of india..
hope u understood me


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## indianpatriot

blackops said:


> where are christians and where is islam


 
*THESE ARE ABRAHIMIC RELIGION !*


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## Nair saab

Even i seriously support *MALLU LAND*...it will stretch from UAE to All over ARABIAN PENINSULA...to UK ,US then Bangalore to MUMBAI to MOON to KERALA...

But i should be the First Prime minister of the *MALLU LAND*...i can strive for that by having a Anshan by drinking only Liquor & our deshiya Bakshanam Mixture & no other Solid good...

*MALLU LAND MATA KI JAI*


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## indianpatriot

I WANT AN AWADH Right now......


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## tallboy123

wat is MALLU ?"????? some type of p**n word?


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## indianpatriot

Truth Teller said:


> the source is an indian nationalist source.why would you even bother posting that.


 
no it isn't..its a P.Hd. report made after intensive research.I need not provide a source because its a well know fact..even Najam Sethi ,Zaid hamid and Musharaff admit it

more source
source2

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## Nair saab

tallboy123 said:


> wat is MALLU ?"????? some type of p**n word?


MALLU is short form of MALAYALEE the people who speak MALAYALAM who are mainly from Kerala ...

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## indianpatriot

tallboy123 said:


> wat is MALLU ?"????? some type of p**n word?


 
searching for Indian **** you get "HOT MALLU AUNTY" all the time.

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## MUHARIB

Go Mallu Land!! yuppie i want a regiment of the Mallu Land armed forces to be name after me   lol.... 

On Topic - crap!!

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## tallboy123

indianpatriot said:


> searching for Indian **** you get "HOT MALLU AUNTY" all the time.


 
 why r so angry at me???
did i put some mirchi in u?????
take it easy mate


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## subarihant

I want "Gulti" land ..... lol


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## Abingdonboy

*"*If some lucky men survive the onslaught of the third world war of atomic and hydrogen bombs, then the Sikh religion will be the only means of guiding them. When asked, isn&#8217;t this religion capable of guiding mankind before the third world war? He said, &#8216;Yes it has the capability, but the Sikhs haven&#8217;t brought out in the broad daylight the splendid doctrines of this religion, which has come into existence for the benefit of the entire mankind. This is their greatest sin and the Sikhs cannot be freed of it.*"*-Bertrand Russell (Philosopher, Mathematician 1872-1970)

source- http://sikhquotes.org/index.html


I highly recommend a visit some great views from ALL sections of the community and the WORLD.

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## Abingdonboy

*&#8220;*Sikhs are very brave. The major reason for our defeat are Sikhs. We are simply unable to do anything before them despite our best efforts. They are very daring people and are fond of martyrdom. They fight courageously and are capable of defeating an army much bigger than them.&#8221;
On 3rd December 1971 we fiercely and vigorously attacked the Indian army with infantry brigade near Hussainiwala border. This brigade included Pakistan army&#8217;s Punjab regiment together with the Baloch regiment. Within minutes we pushed the Indian army quite far back. Their defense posts fell under our control. The Indian army was retreating back very fast and the Pakistani army was going forward with great speed.
Our army reached near Kausre-Hind post (Kasure). There was small segment of Indian army appointed to defend that post and their soldiers belonged to the Sikh Regiment. A few number of the Sikh Regiment stopped our way forward like an iron wall. They greeted us with the ovation (Slogan) of &#8216;Bolé-so-Nihal&#8217; and attacked us like bloodthirsty, hungry lions and hawks. All these soldiers were Sikhs. There was even a dreadful hand-to-hand battle. The sky filled with roars of &#8216;Yaa Ali and Sat Sri Akal&#8217;. Even in this hand-to-hand fighting the Sikhs fought so bravely that all our desires, aspirations and dreams were shattered.
In this war Lt. Col. Gulab Hussain was killed. With him Maj. Mohammed Zaeef and Capt. Arif Alim also died. It was difficult to count the number of soldiers who got killed. We were astonished to see the courage of those, handful of Sikh soldiers. When we seized the possession of the three-story defense post of concrete, the Sikh soldiers went onto the roof and kept on persistently opposing us. The whole night they kept on showering fires on us and continued shouting the loud ovation of &#8216;Sat Sri Akal&#8217;. These Sikh soldiers kept on the encounter till next day. Next day the Pakistani tanks surrounded this post and bombed it with guns. Those, handful of Sikhs got martyred in this encounter while resisting us, but other Sikh soldiers then destroyed our tanks with the help of their artillery. Fighting with great bravery they kept on marching forward and thus our army lost its foothold.
Alas! A handful of Sikhs converted our great victory into big defeat and shattered our confidence and courage. The same thing happened with us in Dhaka, Bangladesh. In the battle of Jassur, the Singhs opposed the Pakistan army so fiercely that our backbone and our foothold were lost. This became the main important reason of our defeat; and Sikhs&#8217; strength, safety and honour of the country, became the sole cause of their victory.*"*
-*Maj. Gen. Fazal Muqeem Khan, Pakistan Army, author of book "Pakistan's Crisis of Leadership*

Source- Maj. Gen. M. Khan - Sikh Quotes.com

A very good site^^


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## Time Assassin

I never knew there was a genocide againist the Sikhs. suprised by it, i think they absoulutly deserve justice especially since they have cotributed heavily in India.


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## Khalistan Patriot

*India: Bring Charges for Newly Discovered Massacre of Sikhs*


The discovery of more Sikh massacre victims after nearly three decades shows the reluctance of successive Indian governments, despite numerous commissions of inquiry, to get to the truth and prosecute those responsible for the anti-Sikh violence.  

Strengthen Communal Violence Bill to Prevent Atrocities

April 25, 2011


(New York) - The Indian government should ensure that those responsible for newly discovered massacres of Sikhs in 1984 are brought to justice, Human Rights Watch said today. 

In January 2011, the burned and abandoned village of Hondh-Chillar, where 32 Sikhs were killed on November 2, 1984, was discovered in northern Haryana state. In March, the site of another forgotten killing of 17 people in nearby Pataudi, was discovered. Widespread anti-Sikh attacks in Haryana were part of broader revenge attacks for the assassination of then-prime minister Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards, following the bloody attack ordered by Gandhi on Sikh separatists at the Golden Temple in Amritsar.
"The discovery of more Sikh massacre victims after nearly three decades shows the reluctance of successive Indian governments, despite numerous commissions of inquiry, to get to the truth and prosecute those responsible for the anti-Sikh violence," said Meenakshi Ganguly, South Asia director at Human Rights Watch. 
An estimated 3,000 Sikhs were killed in 1984, in mob attacks with the complicity of senior members of Gandhi's then-ruling Congress party. Although there is evidence that at least some of the attacks were orchestrated by senior political figures, none have yet been convicted for the 1984 killings.
In 2005, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh acknowledged some of the failures. "I have no hesitation in apologizing not only to the Sikh community but to the whole nation, because what took place in 1984 is a negation of the concept of nationhood enshrined in our Constitution," he said in Parliament. "The past is behind us. We cannot change it, but we can write the future. We must have the will power to write a better future for all of us."
The Haryana state government established a judicial commission to look into the Hondh-Chillar killings. But successive government-appointed commissions have failed to ensure the proper prosecution of those responsible for instigating the riots. 
"Announcing yet another judicial commission will be a step forward only if the Indian government finally uses the information provided and brings those responsible for mass atrocities to justice," Ganguly said. "Sikhs have been waiting a long time for mass murderers to be held accountable, and these new cases would be a good place to start."
To address widespread impunity for attacks on minorities, human rights organizations in India have been working with the government to draft and enact the Communal Violence (Prevention, Control and Rehabilitation) Bill. The bill provides for immediate intervention to prevent and control communal violence, speedy investigation and prosecution in such cases, and proper compensation and rehabilitation of victims.
Human Rights Watch urged the government to strengthen the bill by suspending the requirement for prior government permission to arrest and prosecute public servants; allowing prosecutions on the basis of command responsibility; and explicitly punishing "culpable inaction" by state authorities who fail to act to prevent communal violence.

The bill should specifically incorporate provisions to broaden the basis for prosecuting sexual violence against women during communal mob attacks. Since existing Indian law on rape focuses on questions of consent, it does not adequately address the coercive circumstances prevalent during communal violence, and offenses such as sexual mutilation are not adequately covered by the Indian Penal Code. The bill, while ensuring fair trial rights, should also include provisions for helping survivors of sexual offenses, including requiring adequate support services, physical safety and privacy protections.
"The Haryana massacre is a reminder that India needs a law that will provide maximum protection against orchestrated attacks on minorities," Ganguly said. "The government should listen to all suggestions that could strengthen the communal violence bill so that these outrages never happen again." 

India: Bring Charges for Newly Discovered Massacre of Sikhs | Human Rights Watch


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## Abingdonboy

Sikhs are a feircly loyal people, India is their home, they will defende it to their last breath:




It does seem though that there are some elements in India who dislike the Sikhs for whatever reason.

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## Nirvana

*Here Comes The ' Khalistani False Flagger ' Again , What a Loser ---

Better Senior sikh Members On this Forum Like ' Indian Jatt ' and Others Answer You*


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## metro

Abingdonboy said:


> Sikhs are a feircly loyal people, India is their home, they will defende it to their last breath:
> 
> It does seem though that there are some elements in India who dislike the Sikhs for whatever reason.


which elements r u refering about ?


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## Tiki Tam Tam

It is nice to hear Muslims praising Sikhs.

It was not so a few years back.

And there was good reasons too for Muslims to not like the Sikhs because they played a leading role in the post Partition sequel.

And they were quite fearsome.

The same fearsome nightmare seems to visit Maj Gen M Khan wherein he sees only Sikhs around him.

A check of the ORBAT would have been a better guide for him before he put his pen to paper.


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## Abingdonboy

metro said:


> which elements r u refering about ?


 
Some Hindu- nationalists within the Congress party


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## metro

Abingdonboy said:


> *The far-right Hindu nationalists*, even some Hindu- nationalists within the Congress party


 
Well thats a news for me. As far as I knew, Hindu right wingers always held Sikhs with high regards.


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## desioptimist

Abingdonboy said:


> The far-right Hindu nationalists, even some Hindu- nationalists within the Congress party


 
Wrong. Actually far right hindu nationalist politicians and sikh politicians get along much better than other people. 
There is a problem with RSS though.
RSS says sikhs are hindus not because they hate sikhs but because they admire them.
But sikhs dont like their identity to be diluted, hence the rift.

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## KS

Abingdonboy said:


> The far-right Hindu nationalists, even some Hindu- nationalists within the Congress party


 
What !!!!! You must be kidding.

It was right wing org (RSS) whose volunteers saved many innocent sikhs from congress mobs in Delhi.the sikhs are considered one among the four Dharmic religions and if anyone says right-wingers hate sikhs,he is just a nutcase.

Though I may agree just the congress part for obvious reasons.



desioptimist said:


> Wrong. Actually far right hindu nationalist politicians and sikh politicians get along much better than other people.
> There is a problem with RSS though.
> RSS says sikhs are hindus not because they hate sikhs but because they admire them.
> But sikhs dont like their identity to be diluted, hence the rift.


 
RSS doesn't say so and Mohan bhagwat has already clarified it. It is just propaganda that some spread about RSS TO malign it among sikhs

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## lepziboy

not this stupid khalistan thing again.I am a sikh and I am against khalistan wth I want to stay as a Indian not any khalistan.They will never succeed

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## desioptimist

Karthic Sri said:


> What !!!!! You must be kidding.
> 
> It was right wing org (RSS) whose volunteers saved many innocent sikhs from congress mobs in Delhi.the sikhs are considered one among the four Dharmic religions and if anyone says right-wingers hate sikhs,he is just a nutcase.
> 
> Though I may agree just the congress part for obvious reasons.


 
One should not assume that sikh genocide happened because congress hates them. There is no institutional hatred in congress towards sikhs, otherwise they will never gain power in punjab.
The killing was obviously organized to please some people, they would have killed madrasis, or beharis, if Indira was killed by them.


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## Abingdonboy

Karthic Sri said:


> What !!!!! You must be kidding.
> 
> It was right wing org (RSS) whose volunteers saved many innocent sikhs from congress mobs in Delhi.the sikhs are considered one among the four Dharmic religions and if anyone says right-wingers hate sikhs,he is just a nutcase.
> 
> Though I may agree just the congress part for obvious reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> RSS doesn't say so and Mohan bhagwat has already clarified it. It is just propaganda that some spread about RSS TO malign it among sikhs


 Any sources? Forgive my ignorance but how can someone be a Hindu nationalist and in favour of the Sikhs? A paradox surely? And Sikhs are NOT Hindus, look them up they have very different ideologies.


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## Ajaxpaul




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## tallboy123

guys don't live in 1984....come on its 2011....
When i was kid,i used to live in a sikh family neighbour when my parents used to go to work...
they were sikh family who loved a hindu kid....
i felt no difference then and now too..
today i came to know this...becoz of some wrong events happened in 1980 dont hate people now..
just shut this thread and dont create differences now

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## President Camacho

Missing the crux?



Abingdonboy said:


> ^^^ Brother as a fellow Sikh I feel your pain, I agree the scum who committed these horrendous crimes need to be located and brought to justice. But India today is much different than 1984, even then it was only a very small minority of cowards who committed such crimes. Sikhs are at the core of modern day India, they are proud people who carry India on their backs. Please stop starting these hate filled Khalistani threads, it does no good for anyone as today the idea of Khalistan has long winced past. Modern day India looms. Sikhs with their Hindu, Christian, Jewish, Jain (etc) working together for the motherland cannot can accomish anything.
> 
> "...Each Hindu family should convert at least one child into Singh, who can take care of this world which is our family..."-Pandit Maddan Mohan Malwia


 
Considering the history of the thread starter, I am sure he created this thread just to flame. However, I ask you (a Sikh?) -* How do you feel riding so high on the success story of the same India that has been ruled by the same Congress Party, which failed to punish the main culprits of Sikh genocide even after almost 3 decades? *

Don't we all know that the same Sikh Prime Minister had not won a single election when he was made the Prime Minister? Not lost on anyone that he is nothing more than a front face for everything sinister going on in the background.* How do you feel about this India? **Please do let us know the true feelings*, and if possible, your age. That will be very helpful.

You may be too young, but I was alive then, and I do remember a lot of things. I am a Hindu, and I myself can not forgive the Congress Party for all that happened post Indira assassination. I wonder how can you - a Sikh!

I solicit your answer only to the bold part. Feel free to dismiss the rest.

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## tallboy123

see here how many people has massacred hindus tooo
Persecution of Hindus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





*A Kashmiri child, killed along with several others to eliminate Kashmir Pundits via "Systematic efforts" and violent methods.*

*in that article u can see atleast 1 and 1/2 dozen groups geonocide on hindus mainly muslims...*


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## Abingdonboy

self delete


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## desioptimist

Abingdonboy said:


> Any sources? Forgive my ignorance but how can someone be a Hindu nationalist and in favour of the Sikhs? A paradox surely? And Sikhs are NOT Hindus, look them up they have very different ideologies.


 
Only rightwing organization things so, and I told you the reason.
Why would you make a statement based on mere assumption. BJP and Akalis are best friends.


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## tallboy123

*Oh and that khalistani guy.....
check here...how hindus were massacred throught the history..
in lakhs detailed in other countries and feel happy and be happy*

Persecution of Hindus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## tallboy123

U wanna see how hindu temple was destroyed in kashmir????





*Photograph of the Surya Temple, The most impressive and grandest ruins in Kashmir, at Marttand-Hardy Cole's Archaeological Survey of India Report 'Illustrations of Ancient Buildings in Kashmir.' (1869)*


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## President Camacho

tallboy123 said:


> guys don't live in 1984....come on its 2011....
> When i was kid,i used to live in a sikh family neighbour when my parents used to go to work...
> they were sikh family who loved a hindu kid....
> i felt no difference then and now too..
> today i came to know this...becoz of some wrong events happened in 1980 dont hate people now..
> just shut this thread and dont create differences now


 
See tallboy123, it depends on whether the crime is recognized and the culprits are punished. If they were punished in 1985 itself, there won't be all this talk even in 1986. But if they remain unpunished (as they have, and rather got rewarded with constituencies) even in 2184, the matter will still be alive. What is the justification in forgetting a legal, as well as a moral crime solely on the basis of the number of years that passed through?

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## tallboy123

> *The Mohammedan conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with great glee and pride the slaughters of Hindus, forced conversions, abduction of Hindu women and children to slave markets and the destruction of temples carried out by the warriors of Islam during 800 AD to 1700 AD. Millions of Hindus were converted to Islam by sword during this period.*



u guys forgot this?????
who will punish him???


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## desioptimist

Abingdonboy said:


> Forgive my ignorance once again but as an NRI I cannot really answer this Q. Generally in India how are Sikhs viewed by 99% (excluding the 1% of nutters there are in EVERY country) of the people (Hindu and Muslim)? And are Sikh contributions to India remembered?:
> 
> Hinduism and Sikhism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Forgive my bluntness but it seems Sikhs have done a considerable amount (i'm sure it has been recipricated also by Hindus) for their Hindu brothers despite their disproportional size in terms of population.


 
There is no hindu-sikh riots. On the other hand there is regular hindu-muslim riots( and occasional hindu-christian riots).
1984 was not riot, it was political party sponsored massacre.

Which means hindu-sikh get along better than hindu-muslim or hindu-christian.

People dont bother about history when hatred takes in the form of riots, hindus will kill hindus and muslims will kill muslims.

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## tallboy123

> Timur the Lame's Campaign against India
> Main article: Timur
> 
> T&#299;m&#363;r bin Taraghay Barlas (Chagatai Turkic: &#1578;&#1740;&#1605;&#1608;&#1585; - T&#275;m&#333;r, "iron") (1336 &#8211; February 1405), known in the West as Tamerlane, was a 14th century warlord of Turco-Mongol descent,[18][19][20][21] conqueror of much of western and central Asia, and founder of the Timurid Empire and Timurid dynasty (1370&#8211;1405) in Central Asia, which survived in some form until 1857. Perhaps, he is more commonly known by his pejorative Persian name Timur-e Lang (Persian: &#1578;&#1740;&#1605;&#1608;&#1585; &#1604;&#1606;&#1711 which translates to Timur the Lame, as he was lame after sustaining an injury to the leg in battle.
> 
> Informed about civil war in India, Timur began a trek starting in 1397 to invade the territory of the reigning Sultan Nasir-u Din Mehmud of the Tughlaq Dynasty in the north Indian city of Delhi.
> 
> Timur crossed the Indus River at Attock on September 24. The capture of towns and villages was often followed by the massacre of their inhabitants and the raping of their women, as well as pillaging to support his massive army.* Timur wrote many times in his memoirs of his specific disdain for the 'idolatrous' Hindus, although he also waged war against Muslim Indians during his campaign.*
> 
> Timur's invasion did not go unopposed and he did meet some resistance during his march to Delhi, most notably by the Sarv Khap coalition in northern India, and the Governor of Meerut. Although impressed and momentarily stalled by the valour of Ilyaas Awan, Timur was able to continue his relentless approach to Delhi, arriving in 1398 to combat the armies of Sultan Mehmud, already weakened by an internal battle for ascension within the royal family.
> 
> The Sultan's army was easily defeated on December 17, 1398. Timur entered Delhi and the city was sacked, destroyed, and left in ruins. Before the battle for Delhi, *Timur executed more than 100,000 captives.*


another lame guy


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## tallboy123

check out the muslim LOVE JIHAD



> *Kerala is a Hindu majority state but with the most slim majority in India.[67] Kerala has witnessed many riots and rebellions against Hindus throughout it history and more so in independent India; notably the Marad Massacre. Many Muslim organizations allegedly supported Love Jihad where Muslim boys targeted non-Muslim young girls, especially Hindu girls to convert them to Islam by feigning love*


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## DEMI GOD

See I am also a Sikh wt happened in 1984 was a disgrace but it doesnt mean we stop loving our nation,I feel so lucky That i Live in India,a feeling of proudness comes , And ,some politicians use Religion things to there benefits (Like mann used slogans of khalistan) .we shuld not make fool of ourselves by listening to such coward ppls .so Pls stop doing this khalisthan thing and remember we all Indians are brother no one can separate us .
Na jhagde hum apas mein ,jhagad ke tut jayenge,tumhara ayina hum hain hamara aina tum ho

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## tallboy123

check this one out which happens even today 



> Forced Conversions
> 
> *Hindu women have also been known to be victims of kidnapping and forced conversion to Islam.[97] Around 20 to 25 Hindu girls are abducted every month and converted to Islam forcibly.[*98] Krishan Bheel, a Hindu member of the National Assembly of Pakistan, came into the news recently for manhandling Qari Gul Rehman after being taunted with a religious insult.[99]
> 
> On October 18, 2005, Sanno Amra and Champa, a Hindu couple residing in the Punjab Colony, Karachi, Sindh returned home to find that their three teenage daughters had disappeared.* After inquiries to the local police, the couple discovered that their daughters had been taken to a local madrassah, had been converted to Islam, and were denied unsupervised contact with their parents*


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## desioptimist

There is a valid reason for sikhs to feel cheated, as 1984 has not come to a closure. Posting islamic invasion posts does not amount to a thing, just another diversion from main story.


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## Abingdonboy

Forgive my ignorance once again but as an NRI I cannot really answer this Q. Generally in India how are Sikhs viewed by 99% (excluding the 1% of nutters there are in EVERY country) of the people (Hindu and Muslim)? And are Sikh contributions to India remembered?:


> Guru Tegh Bahadur
> In 1675 Aurangzeb caused the martyrdom of Guru Tegh Bahadur. He had gone to Aurangzeb on behalf of Kashmiri Pandits, who requested him to plead against their forceful conversion. Aurangzeb asked Guru Tegh Bahadur to convert and had him executed after he refused to convert to Islam.[5] According to Kushwant Singh, when "Guru Tegh Bahadur was summoned to Delhi, *he went as a protector of the Kashmiri Hindu community *and encourage them to stand against the increasing oppression of the Mughals. He was executed in the year 1675. His son who succeeded him as Guru later described his father's martyrdom as in the cause of the humanity. Guru Tegh Bahadar undertook the supreme sacrifice for the protection of the most fundamental of human rights - the right of a person to freely practice his or her religion without interference or hindrance. This is why Guru Tegh Bahadur is also known as (Tegh Bahadur, Hind Di Chadar" (Tegh Bahadur, Protector of Hindus). Many Sikhs view Guru Tegh Bahadur as "Insaaf Di Kand"(blockade of injustice), stopping the injust conversions to islam.


Hinduism and Sikhism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Forgive my bluntness but it seems Sikhs have done a considerable amount (i'm sure it has been recipricated also by Hindus) for their Hindu brothers despite their disproportional size in terms of population.


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## tallboy123

*Sikhs go to court and i hope the culprits get punished..
but wat about hindus???
Millions and millions were killed massacred by Muslims??????
where should we go for justice???*


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## desioptimist

tallboy123 said:


> *Sikhs go to court and i hope the culprits get punished..
> but wat about hindus???
> Millions and millions were killed massacred by Muslims??????
> where should we go for justice???*


 Where were millions and millions of hindus killed in Independent India? 
Can you show me?


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## tallboy123

desioptimist said:


> There is a valid reason for sikhs to feel cheated, as 1984 has not come to a closure. Posting islamic invasion posts does not amount to a thing, just another diversion from main story.


am not try to divert....

wat has happened to sikhs in 1983,
it has happened to hindus from long back 
not in 1000 but in lakhs of number...

Till today i didnt know sikhs hate Hindus,after seeing that hate messages and comments on facebook page(neverforget1983) i came to know that they hate us.... 

But not all sikhs are same...


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## Prometheus

tallboy123 said:


> *Sikhs go to court and i hope the culprits get punished..
> but wat about hindus???
> Millions and millions were killed massacred by Muslims??????
> where should we go for justice???*


 
Were those hindus killed by independent india"s govt


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## tallboy123

desioptimist said:


> Where were millions and millions of hindus killed in Independent India?
> Can you show me?


 

so the lives of hindus doesn't matter to u who are killed before independence..
*U r great really great human being!!!!!!!*

---------- Post added at 12:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 AM ----------




Prometheus said:


> Were those hindus killed by independent india"s govt


 
so if people are killed in independant india,it matters,if not their life has no value..okay


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## Prometheus

tallboy123 said:


> so the lives of hindus doesn't matter to u who are killed before independence..
> *U r great really great human being!!!!!!!*
> 
> ---------- Post added at 12:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> so if people are killed in independant india,it matters,if not their life has no value..okay


 
Well in an invasion people die.........you are talking about pre modern times.........at that time only at just the will of kings ,towns were burned.
And at that times sikhs too suffered..........why do you think sikhs picked swords?????


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## DEMI GOD

he is a mislead guy ,see there is no and will be not anything like khalisthan ,there will be only 1 name in future that is INDIA,i am also a sikh see bro wt happened 3 decades back was bad ,bt we r now in 2011 ,some politician still uses that event for there personal interest ,and they even manage to encourage some fools ,so i hope u now become intelligent and stop disgracing urself .............We Indians are brother no one can separate us.


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## tallboy123

Nevermind...
u carry on ur discussion


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## desioptimist

tallboy123 said:


> Nevermind...
> u carry on ur discussion


 
Dont get angry just answer the question. How is muslim invasion relevent to this thread.
After independence we hindus have not faced major threat agaist us(baring kashmir pundits), where as sikhs were killed by govt in power.
How is Timur relevant here?


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## Nair saab

This False flagger have made 13 posts, all of them are new threads but never dares to comment on his own thread...


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## tallboy123

desioptimist said:


> Dont get angry just answer the question. How is muslim invasion relevent to this thread.
> After independence we hindus have not faced major threat agaist us(*baring kashmir pundits*), where as sikhs were killed by govt in power.
> How is Timur relevant here?


Why bar kashmiri pundits???


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## DEMI GOD

better delete this post .Scratching the wounds is always painfull.no one is going to get benefit from it (leaving some of trolls).
We shuld remmber one thing that in case of any problem we shuld become sheilds of each other .and united we are more stronger than separate 

so in end
DELETE THIS THREAD

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## tallboy123

there are about 80crore Hindus (if i am right in numbers)
every one doesnt hate Sikhs..
if u think every Hindu hate sikhs,then u must be delusional....

Yes,i agree that was a bad move by Govt..and i wish the correct culprits are punished


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## desioptimist

DEMI GOD said:


> better delete this post .Scratching the wounds is always painfull.no one is going to get benefit from it (leaving some of trolls).
> We shuld remmber one thing that in case of any problem we shuld become sheilds of each other .and united we are more stronger than separate
> 
> so in end
> DELETE THIS THREAD


 
You should allow people to express their anger this way. 1984 is a wound which is difficult to heal if the people who did them are not punished.

I am not sikh, I will say the same if the victim was hindu/muslim/christian/buddist/jain. We should not push the dirt under the carpet.


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## desioptimist

1984 is shameful to us, most people will agree.
If it is not too much diversion:
I have a question for sikh members(those from UK/Canada). What do they think about khalistan movement. Was it just cause?
What do they think about assassination of Indira Gandhi by her own body guard?


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## ashok321

Cleo Paskal: World's #9 Most Powerful Person Now Accused of Corruption -- Will She Fall?

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## red_baron

Time Assassin said:


> I never knew there was a genocide againist the Sikhs. suprised by it, i think they absoulutly deserve justice especially since they have cotributed heavily in India.


 
it was a holocaust the only real holocaust known to humanity....happened in 1984 Operation Shudi karan(raping sikh women to alter Sikh genetics)was a part of it.....sikhs have uploaded videos on youtube regarding it..refer to it

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## tallboy123

red_baron said:


> it was a holocaust the only real holocaust known to humanity....happened in 1984 Operation Shudi karan(raping sikh women to alter Sikh genetics)was a part of it.....sikhs have uploaded videos on youtube regarding it..refer to it



searched for so called operation shudee karan,but didnt find a a credible artile about it...other than sikhwiki and and other blog....


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## jayron

Mods should be fair and expose not only Indian but Pakistani false flag trolls too.


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## ashok321

On April 15, former Law and Justice Minister and Harvard Professor Dr. Subramanian Swamy asked Prime Minister Manmohan Singh for leave to lay corruption charges against Sonia Gandhi. In a meticulously researched 200+ page submission Dr Swamy alleges Sonia Gandhi has been involved in corruption in India since 1972 and personally benefited from the Bofors scam (1986), has held billions in non-Indian bank accounts since at least 1991, illegally profited from the Iraqi oil-for-food deals (2002), and even accessed KGB payoffs during the Cold War.


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## ashok321

> Daughter of DGCA No. 2 got licence from school with no plane



Foreigners as well as Indians would not be safe this way - can we stop this shik?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-school-with-no-plane/articleshow/8094783.cms


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## ashok321

Note had warned PM Raja planned to ignore 2G advice - The Times of India


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## Truth Teller

No wonder over 30,000 Sikhs on FB like this page:

NeverForget1984.com | Facebook

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## Truth Teller

Now i know why sikhs feel like this about most indians:

Why are Sikhs Better looking and fairer then most other indians? - Topix


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## Abingdonboy

Mods please delete this thread. Nothing good can be gained from this. A few people are trying to stir things up that do not agree with the majority.


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## tallboy123

some people are posting propoganda videos just to score a point........


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## ashok321

The $8 billion mystery : Politics : Pritish Nandy : TOI Blogs

Why Hasan Ali of India is not Narco tested as other criminals?

Is the amount of 8 billions a peanut?


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## aakash_2410

Guys why are we even discussing this topic?!
That Khalistan warrior isn't even sikh. And as fas as the Khalistan movement is concerned. It is DEAD!
No Sikh wants separate state in India. Common Indian [either be Sikh/Hindu or Muslim for that matter] is too busy earning a bread for his family to care about all these stuff. I don't remember the last time any Sikh even talked about the Khalistan? Maybe some Sikhs in 'kaanaddda' might want it. And new generation Sikhs in Canada don't even relate to all these.

There are so many Sikhs in RSS and BJP as well. And today every Indian realises that India's economy is booming and India's strong because we're UNITED. And if you kinda look at it each state of India is unique, different from other states and can be a country in it's own[the size of european countries].

SINGH IS KING!! Enough said!

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## desioptimist

Truth Teller said:


> the biggest disaster was the creation of india in 1947.


 
1947 is a blessing for us. Without division India would have been too big to rule.


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## Truth Teller

aakash_2410 said:


> SINGH IS KING!! Enough said!


 
singh is king is a film......... 

we're talking about reality of thausands of sikhs who were genocided by hindu fanatics, thausands of sikh women raped by hindus. 

still no justice given by the hindu republic of india to sikhs. sikhs are known to be people of honour and dignity... how can the sikhs just let this pass by?


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## tallboy123

aakash_2410 said:


> Guys why are we even discussing this topic?!
> That Khalistan warrior isn't even sikh. And as fas as the Khalistan movement is concerned. It is DEAD!
> No Sikh wants separate state in India. Common Indian [either be Sikh/Hindu or Muslim for that matter] is too busy earning a bread for his family to care about all these stuff. I don't remember the last time any Sikh even talked about the Khalistan? Maybe some Sikhs in 'kaanaddda' might want it. And new generation Sikhs in Canada don't even relate to all these.
> 
> There are so many Sikhs in RSS and BJP as well. And today every Indian realises that India's economy is booming and India's strong because we're UNITED. And if you kinda look at it each state of India is unique, different from other states and can be a country in it's own[the size of european countries].
> 
> *SINGH IS KING!!* Enough said!


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## tallboy123

Truth Teller said:


> singh is king is a film.........
> 
> we're talking about reality of thausands of sikhs who were genocided by hindu fanatics, thausands of sikh women raped by hindus.
> 
> still no justice given by the hindu republic of india to sikhs. sikhs are known to be people of honour and dignity... how can the sikhs just let this pass by?


don't claim BS..first go and give justice for those thousands bengali women raped by PA....


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## aakash_2410

It's funny how Pakistanis care about Sikhs all of a sudden??!!
Forgot about separation days?? Forgot about 'Project Kaur and Kapoor to Khan'?? Forgot about 'Wadda Ghalughara' [In which muslims killed half of the sikh population at that time under Durrani's rule] ??





CAUTION: "Singh/Kaur 2 Khan" agents active here !
Wadda Ghalughara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You guys are just as* burnt that Bengalis separated from you because of your discrimination so now you want India to be broken in similar manner even though there is no discrimination. This is just wet dream fantasy of you Pakistanis! India was united, is united and will remain united [yeah we might add Pakistan into it but it won't break for sure because unity is our power.] You guys don't care about Sikhs you just wanna see India breaking! Which will never happen. You are no1's friends. Even Afghanis hate you!

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## Truth Teller




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## Truth Teller

aakash_2410 said:


> It's funny how Pakistanis care about Sikhs all of a sudden??!!
> Forgot about separation days?? Forgot about 'Project Kaur and Kapoor to Khan'?? Forgot about 'Wadda Ghalughara' [In which muslims killed half of the sikh population at that time under Durrani's rule] ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CAUTION: "Singh/Kaur 2 Khan" agents active here !
> Wadda Ghalughara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You guys are just as* burnt that Bengalis separated from you because of your discrimination so now you want India to be broken in similar manner even though there is no discrimination. This is just wet dream fantasy of you Pakistanis! India was united, is united and will remain united [yeah we might add Pakistan into it but it won't break for sure because unity is our power.] You guys don't care about Sikhs you just wanna see India breaking! Which will never happen. You are no1's friends. Even Afghanis hate you!


 
this is totally off topic.


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## aakash_2410

Truth Teller said:


> singh is king is a film.........
> 
> we're talking about reality of thausands of sikhs who were genocided by hindu fanatics, thausands of sikh women raped by hindus.
> 
> still no justice given by the hindu republic of india to sikhs. sikhs are known to be people of honour and dignity... how can the sikhs just let this pass by?


 
When were they genocided by HINDU fanatics??!! :O They Congress mobs! And rapes??!! looooooooool Give me links! Don't chat sh*t!

And that's how justice system works in India! Forget about that just take a look at your fellow coutryman Ajmal Kasab. Court already sentenced him to death but now he's appealing to the High court then he'll appeal to the Supreme court and so on. Keeping him in that special prison is costing 60 lack ruppes of tax payer's money per month!

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## tallboy123

all those operation shudii karan is nothing but B U L L S H I T Conspiracy to create a rift between Hindus and Sikhs...
But it won't be successfull..

Even i can make a video saying that somalis raped arabs.....
and upload it on youtube...

Youtube videos doesnt count as evidence....got it

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## DelhiDareDevil

Dont understand why Pakistanis are so concerned about Sikhs.

1. Muslims also killed thousands of Sikhs in history in mass mudering.
2. They are at least 1000 times more Sikhs living in India and that perfers to live in India.

So Pakistanis, stop interfaring in India matters, Sikhs perfer India first, then Khalisthan and Pakistan last.


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## tallboy123

*Now Sikhism is a integral part of Indian religion.....*
haters can burn and die on ur chair itself!!!


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## Truth Teller

desioptimist said:


> 1947 is a blessing for us. Without division India would have been too big to rule.


 
there was no division. india was created in 1947, so how many times has india been divided since 1947?


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## DelhiDareDevil

I have many Sikh friends, and I talk and joke to him, like a fellow hindu or Indian.

Sikhs and Hindus are the closest relgions in the world, especially in terms of culture, only Pakistans here are trying to cause a fight between us two.

But it wont happen.


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## tallboy123

Truth Teller said:


> there was no division. india was created in 1947, so how many times has india been divided since 1947?


 
india has not been divided after 1947...But pakistan has been divided once 
may be more to come in future ,who knows


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## DelhiDareDevil

tallboy123 said:


> india has not been divided after 1947...But pakistan has been divided once
> may be more to come in future ,who knows


 
You never know what might happen in balochistan, seems very bad place in current times. Maybe could split again?


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## clmeta

Truth Teller said:


> there was no division. india was created in 1947, so how many times has india been divided since 1947?


 
What was this land called before 1947? Pakistan? Grow up dude. Your schooling system has left no trace of independent thinking.

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## DEMI GOD

i am a sikh and i am more proud to be an Indian

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## tallboy123

DelhiDareDevil said:


> You never know what might happen in balochistan, seems very bad place in current times. Maybe could split again?


Well, US has recognized Balochistan as country..recent Gauntanamo files identify a terrorist as from balouchistan 
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...-official-file-calls-baluchistan-country.html


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## desioptimist

Truth Teller said:


> there was no division. india was created in 1947, so how many times has india been divided since 1947?


 
Do you realize that Jinnah feared muslims would be second class citizen in your unified "PAKISTAN", which is why India was carved out of it.


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## tallboy123



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## DelhiDareDevil

Im a Hindu too, and I go to Gurdwara as much as I go to the temple.

Even in temples, I see Singhs as well.

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## DEMI GOD

wt was pakistan called before 1947 ..................................British india


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## Respect4Respect01

foxbat said:


> 30 K misguided sikhs making a noise out of a total population of 23 million or so in a country of 1.2 billion currently being managed by a Sikh..?? Yeah.. go ahead and give it a LOT of importance ..


 
30 thousand, then 30 lakh, then 30 crore, then u have to give it a LOT of importance


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## DelhiDareDevil

tallboy123 said:


> Well, US has recognized Balochistan as country..recent Gauntanamo files identify a terrorist as from balouchistan
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...-official-file-calls-baluchistan-country.html


 
Check this out, just published 20 hours ago, by Pakistan source.

Its soo funny, cause its full of lies. 

Conspirators working to separate Balochistan | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

While people are thinking of Khalisthan taking land of Pakistan and India here.

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## SpArK

foxbat said:


> 30 K misguided sikhs making a noise out of a total population of 23 million or so in a country of 1.2 billion currently being managed by a Sikh..?? Yeah.. go ahead and give it a LOT of importance ..


 
You get more than 30000 fans in facebook for anything silly... Examples and plenty.. even some controversial number of fans in some controversial fanpages were discussed to the death.. so no need to bother.


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## DEMI GOD

I AM A SIKH
and my message to my fellow brothers see guys politician like simranjeet singh maan are dirty persons they dont even hesitate to play with religious sentiments of people for there benefit ,they just try to get benefit from u by making ur fool ,so from next time dont listen to such cowards 
THere will be only one Star in the future worl and that will be India

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## newdelhinsa

I am not a Sikh but Sikhs have right to protest and rip of the skin of scum political class for not providing justice to the victims of 1984 riots. 

Shame on Congress-I for instigating these riots. 

Bloody black chapter of free India i feel ashamed, always, never forget 1984.

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## desioptimist

newdelhinsa said:


> I am not a Sikh but Sikhs have right to protest and rip of the skin of scum political class for not providing justice to the victims of 1984 riots.
> 
> Shame on Congress-I for instigating these riots.
> 
> Bloody black chapter of free India i feel ashamed, always, never forget 1984.


 
My thoughts exactly, guilty should be punished. Nothing is forgotten.


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## desioptimist

DelhiDareDevil said:


> Im a Hindu too, and I go to Gurdwara as much as I go to the temple.
> 
> Even in temples, I see Singhs as well.


 
Even muslims go to gurdwara in UK. Everybody likes free food.
Just kidding.

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## lepziboy

well I really wish this will never happen in the future.I dont want punjab to be seperated from India.I am proud to be Indian and forever will be


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## Khalistan Patriot

*Call to prosecute Congress leaders for anti-Sikh riots *

New York, April 26 (IANS) Human Rights Watch (HRW) has sought the prosecution of leaders of India's Congress party who allegedly organised attacks on Sikhs after Indira Gandhi's assassination in 1984.

Sikhs were attacked and killed "with the complicity of senior members of (then prime minister) Gandhi's Congress party," said HRW South Asia director Meenakshi Ganguly.

"Although there is evidence that at least some of the attacks were orchestrated by senior political figures, none have yet been convicted for the 1984 killings," she said.

"The discovery of more Sikh massacre victims after nearly three decades shows the reluctance of successive Indian governments, despite numerous commissions of inquiry, to get to the truth and prosecute those responsible for the anti-Sikh violence," Ganguly said.

Referring to the recent discovery of mass graves in Hondh-Chillar in Haryana, she said: "The Haryana massacre is a reminder that India needs a law that will provide maximum protection against orchestrated attacks on minorities.

"The government should listen to all suggestions that could strengthen the communal violence bill so that these outrages never happen again."

A case against Congress party has been filed in a New York court by the US based Sikhs for Justice (SFJ) along with several Sikh individuals from different states and cities of India who witnessed and survived attacks in 1984.

Mangalorean.Com- Serving Mangaloreans Around The World!


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## red_baron

jayron said:


> Mods should be fair and expose not only Indian but Pakistani false flag trolls too.


 
he is not a false flagger but a victim...why do u want to surpress his voice?


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## Khalistan Patriot

*What about Indias unofficial Black List of Sikhs?*

Chandigarh, April 13:

We know that there is an Official Black List of Sikhs. The government of India has names of some Sikhs whom they suspect to have indulged in anti-national activities at some point of time. 

There has been a demand to abolish the list and let Indians, read Sikhs, come to their motherland to be able to pay obeisance at Golden Temple at Amritsar or visit their relatives which include parents, brothers, sisters, spouses and children. 

Parents and other relatives have died in India but black listed Sikhs have not been allowed to come to India to attend their cremations or Bhog Ceremonies. Black listed Sikhs have died abroad but were never given a chance to visit their near and dear ones.

The Sikhs have even requested to review the list so that only those remain in the list, who had actually remained a threat to the integrity of the country and spare those who had genuine or say economic reasons, like people who sought political asylum, just to get an entry or stay in a particular country.

However, there has been an unofficial black list of Sikhs too, who have been harassed without any reason or rhyme, just because there actually is a black list of Sikhs.

YES PUNJAB has come across a case which is very interesting but saddening and demands attention. This is a representative case of unofficial black list of Sikhs. 

The black listed Sikh in question is 80 years old, (will be 81 on June 9, 2011), has 5 children and 12 grandchildren, is a professional engineer, was a Hindi Announcer at Akashvani, Bhopal, had a valid Indian Passport, claims to have no relations with any Sikh organization, is not on the list of 169 black listed Sikhs, has two daughters married to Hindus, has a clean shaven son who happens to be a Mayor in California and last but not the least was honored by none other than the President of India. 

The man is a patient who had undergone heart and back surgeries, is a diabetic, is bed-ridden and mostly moves in a Disability Chair. 

But mind it..mind it, he is a threat to India and is a black listed Sikh, not included in the official black list of Sikhs, but harassed almost every time like a black listed Sikh. 

Not going into the emotional stuff that one can write on the subject and the case in particular, we handover the mike to Gyani Karnail Singh, to let you know what he was, what he is, what he has been going through and what he thinks.

While you finish reading his tale, YES PUNJAB, would expect you to react not only in the comment box below but also at your own level, logically, legally and democratically, regardless of who you are and where you are.

And this is not an appeal to Sikhs, this is an appeal to everybody who claims to be human. 

What about Indias unofficial Black list of Sikhs? « Yes Punjab


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## red_baron

Truth Teller said:


> Now i know why sikhs feel like this about most indians:
> 
> Why are Sikhs Better looking and fairer then most other indians? - Topix


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## red_baron

tallboy123 said:


> *Sikhs go to court and i hope the culprits get punished..
> but wat about hindus???
> Millions and millions were killed massacred by Muslims??????
> where should we go for justice???*


 
lol millions and millions...and there are still 1.3 billion in the world...how many billions and billions were you?

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## AAtish

I am not from India.. but my condolences to all those who died and were not allowed to come to their 'janam bhoomi'.. and i fully support that those who are not threats to sovereignty of India should be allowed and should not be just stopped because of them having a 'pagri'


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## red_baron

i hope u and your fellow black listed sikhs make it back to their homeland once indian state persecution is put to an end by the free world


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## DelhiDareDevil

I don't mind supporting khalisthan as India would have a great partner and around 60% of pak GDP would be gone

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## DesiGuy

close this thread and ban this guy. 

that's it....and khalistan is made.


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## red_baron

someone should paste the link of all such threads in khalistani forums so that they can join in the healthy dicussion and the free world can hear their grievances


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## jha

AAtish said:


> I am not from India.. but my condolences to all those who died and were not allowed to come to their 'janam bhoomi'.. and i fully support that those who are not threats to sovereignty of India should be allowed and *should not be just stopped because of them having a 'pagri'*


 
Well said..

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## jha

DelhiDareDevil said:


> I don't mind supporting khalisthan as India would have a great partner and around 60% of pak GDP would be gone


 
I am more interested in another " istan " starting with B... Work is in progress..


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## DesiGuy

Mann ??


who listens to this guy seriously? 


I was born in punjab, and this khalistan BS and just Pure BS!


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## red_baron

jha said:


> I am more interested in another " istan " starting with B... Work is in progress..


 
biharistan?for biharis in india?

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## jha

red_baron said:


> lol millions and millions...and there are still 1.3 billion in the world...how many billions and billions were you?


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## divya

respect4respect01 said:


> 30 thousand, then 30 lakh, then 30 crore, then u have to give it a LOT of importance


 
still we are 125 crore. so we will have 5 every 1 to beat the hell out.....


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## DelhiDareDevil

jha said:


> I am more interested in another " istan " starting with B... Work is in progress..


 
Yaar have you seen pictures of it?

It's not habitual and full of mountains and believe it or not that makes up 50% of pak land.

Though it has some gold.


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## red_baron

desioptimist said:


> My thoughts exactly, guilty should be punished. Nothing is forgotten.


 
in other threads relating to Sikh massacre of 1984 and operation shudi karan 1984(raping sikh women to alter their genetic makeup) indians are denying something of this sort happened and here you are accepting it and calling for punishment of guilty


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## AAtish

jha said:


> Well said..


 
I think you should have highlighted this sentence..




AAtish said:


> I am not from India.. but my condolences to all those who died and were not allowed to come to their 'janam bhoomi'.. and *i fully support that those who are not threats to sovereignty of India* should be allowed and should not be just stopped because of them having a 'pagri'


 
it increases one's mental strength if brain is used.. (Me, 2011)

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## divya

Truth Teller said:


> Now i know why sikhs feel like this about most indians:
> 
> Why are Sikhs Better looking and fairer then most other indians? - Topix


 
What next

Why punjabis have a better height than rest of Indians?
Why deep south indians have darker complexion?
Why UP wallas are much more abusive then rest of Indians?
Why Mumbaikars have more more money than rest of Indians?
Why delhites and punjabis obssessed with dhol then rest of Indians?
Why Biharis are top most of the exams most of times than rest of Indians?
why south indians have better IT than rest of Indians?

and ur point is?


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## 53fd

DelhiDareDevil said:


> I don't mind supporting khalisthan as India would have a great partner and around 60% of pak GDP would be gone


 
They are more than welcome to be part of Pakistani Punjab sure 

Most of India's fertile land will be gone, & there are already too many farmers that commit suicide in other parts of India every year.


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## divya

red_baron said:


> biharistan?for biharis in india?


 
Biharistan or no Biharistan but we definetly need a idiotistan....

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## Chinese-Dragon

^^^ Which part of India do you come from Divya?


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## divya

bilalhaider said:


> They are more than welcome to be part of Pakistani Punjab sure


 
and 10 years down the line complain like Afghans are sucking our blood....

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## AAtish

DelhiDareDevil said:


> Yaar have you seen pictures of it?
> 
> It's not habitual and full of mountains and believe it or not that makes up 50% of pak land.
> 
> Though it has some gold.


 
39% to be precise if you are talking about Baluchistan.. and NO its not going to be a separate country.. you tried it in Sindh and failed miserably..

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## jha

divya said:


> What next
> 
> Why punjabis have a better height than rest of Indians?
> Why deep south indians have darker complexion?
> *Why UP wallas are much more abusive then rest of Indians?*
> Why Mumbaikars have more more money than rest of Indians?
> Why delhites and punjabis obssessed with dhol then rest of Indians?
> Why Biharis are top most of the exams most of times than rest of Indians?
> why south indians have better IT than rest of Indians?
> 
> and ur point is?



Dont know about other points, But Bihar and Haryana will surely fight with UP if it decides to claim this honor ..?
we bihari are equally abusive ...


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## 53fd

divya said:


> Biharistan or no Biharistan but we definetly need a idiotistan....


 
Maybe a 'Dalistan' for the 180 million oppressed untouchable Dalits in India?

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## divya

Chinese-Dragon said:


> ^^^ Which part of India do you come from Divya?


 
I was born in Mumbai
Grown up in UP
Studied in NCR
Started my job in South India
Now i am Delhi


So I come from each part of India.....

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## jha

AAtish said:


> I think you should have highlighted this sentence..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *it increases one's mental strength if brain is used.*. (Me, 2011)



Well said..and start doing what you preach...


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## AAtish

divya said:


> Biharistan or no Biharistan but we definetly need a idiotistan....


 
Yup! with that much population, you are bound to have two different countries.. but idiotistan would be over populated innih?


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## divya

jha said:


> Dont know about other points, But Bihar and Haryana will surely fight with UP if it decides to claim this honor ..?
> we bihari are equally abusive ...


 
Biharis are more like users.... we are innovators in this technology


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## jha

red_baron said:


> biharistan?for biharis in india?


 
Bihar already exists...

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## divya

AAtish said:


> Yup! with that much population, you are bound to have two different countries.. but idiotistan would be over populated innih?


 
yeah with illegal migrants flooding from the west......


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## AAtish

jha said:


> Well said..and start doing what you preach...


 
I came up with that quote after following it .. see.. i told you.. follow my lead 

---------- Post added at 02:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 AM ----------




divya said:


> yeah with illegal migrants flooding from the west......


 
ohhh.. so you planning to put all NRIs there?


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## divya

AAtish said:


> I came up with that quote after following it .. see.. i told you.. follow my lead
> 
> ---------- Post added at 02:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> ohhh.. so you planning to put all NRIs there?


 
Nah NRI are doing great i was talking about NRP and RPs


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## JayAtl

bilalhaider said:


> They are more than welcome to be part of Pakistani Punjab sure
> 
> Most of India's fertile land will be gone, & there are already too many farmers that commit suicide in other parts of India every year.


 
why would they go to pakistan when you ran away from it...


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## AAtish

divya said:


> Nah NRI are doing great i was talking about NRP and RPs


 
lol.. nahhh we do not want to be part of barter system and rarely two meals a day .. we are used to live pretty well off.. besides.. it would hurt sleeping on footpaths innih?.. oh sorry you must be from the 10% elite in India right?


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## jha

AAtish said:


> 39% to be precise if you are talking about Baluchistan.. and *NO its not going to be a separate country.. you tried it in Sindh and failed miserably..*

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## jha

divya said:


> Biharis are more like users.... we are innovators in this technology



Nah..Cant agree..
We have the honor to produce most innovative and user friendly products..


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## AAtish

jha said:


>


 
Good! so You did stared in a movie .. fits perfectly on you 

Anyways, this thread is about Sikh people's problem.. so lets concentrate on that.. shall we?


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## divya

jha said:


> Nah..Cant agree..
> We have the honor to produce most innovative and user friendly products..


 
lets give dhamaka holiday package to moderators and then decide


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## jha

AAtish said:


> *I came up with that quote after following it* .. see.. i told you.. follow my lead
> 
> ---------- Post added at 02:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> ohhh.. so you planning to put all NRIs there?








Chalo..Start following what you preach..


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## jha

divya said:


> lets give dhamaka holiday package to moderators and then decide



I am all for it...Lets see if they can survive the attack..

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## divya

AAtish said:


> lol.. nahhh we do not want to be part of barter system and rarely two meals a day .. we are used to live pretty well off.. besides.. it would hurt sleeping on footpaths innih?.. oh sorry you must be from the 10% elite in India right?


 
Nah i live in cave wearing a tent house with a suicide vest under my tent house hurling a AK 47 , sitting in McDonalds enjoying a burger watching saas bahu serial shouting Phuck Amreeka Phuck India

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## divya

bilalhaider said:


> Maybe a 'Dalistan' for the 180 million oppressed untouchable Dalits in India?


 
Yeah thanks, so which part of Pakistan would be good for it.... I guess pakistani punjab would be fine for them. After all you care for them so much. so when are you giving it up...


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## Shinigami

guys. are you going to let a false flagger who started this BS thread turn you into trolls?


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## indianpatriot

red_baron said:


> in other threads relating to Sikh massacre of 1984 and operation shudi karan 1984(raping sikh women to alter their genetic makeup) indians are denying something of this sort happened and here you are accepting it and calling for punishment of guilty


 
do you know about Operation Knee Replacement anf Face restructuring coz you may need it if you mess with Indian unity.Pakistn are famours as fool fox who always try to snook in others matters and intend to make mess out of order but in the end brushed aside.There is a saying in hindu
*"Saas patoh ek huin,kutn wali kut gayi."
"Fighting relatives patched up,haters were kicked in butt."*

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## punit

> Tell that to the 30,793 sikhs on this FB page:



dunno whether they are real sikhs or closet pakis .. but ask the question to few lakh sikh soldiers serving in Indian Armed forces .

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## jha

Shinigami said:


> guys. are you going to let a false flagger who started this BS thread turn you into trolls?



Nah..We are enjoying this as well..It is 8am here..Have time to kill since boss is on holiday..


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## Mech

Khalistan is for all intents and purposes a dead movement. There isn't even an iota of effort to rekindle the effort. Sikhs and mallus  have integrated far greater than any other in India. There is no khalistan, nor is there one ever going to be , period.

The only losers here are false flagging fags who have nothing better to do than jerk off to long forgotten separatist movements in India. Welcome to the 21st century........fags...

I bet if i scream "phuck America and hindoostan", these guys would come in their pants. Any takers?


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## AAtish

jha said:


> Chalo..Start following what you preach..


 
redundancy.. read my previous post


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## AAtish

divya said:


> Nah i live in cave wearing a tent house with a suicide vest under my tent house hurling a AK 47 , sitting in McDonalds enjoying a burger watching saas bahu serial shouting Phuck Amreeka Phuck India


 
Contradiction between two sentences.. either make up your mind.. or go to idiotistan (as you named it, you have the first right)

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## AAtish

divya said:


> Yeah thanks, so which part of Pakistan would be good for it.... I guess pakistani punjab would be fine for them. After all you care for them so much. so when are you giving it up...


 
so you really have given up on them? don't want to "waste" your "economic growth" on them ain?


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## Shinigami

Some flase flaggers have managed to bring a dead issue back to life.

So here is a reality check, 
does Khalistan movement have any credible supporters? Is it a problem GOI has to deal with? Or has the noose of economic growth strangled the terrorist?











*PS :Watch the videos before commenting *

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## jha

divya said:


> Nah i live in cave wearing a tent house with a suicide vest under my tent house hurling a AK 47 , *sitting in McDonalds enjoying a burger watching saas bahu serial shouting Phuck Amreeka Phuck India*



CLASSIC..

Ab is kahdim ki taraf se pesh-e-khidmat hai..Mulahija Framayen..







Okay..Lets get back to the topic now ..


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## divya

AAtish said:


> so you really have given up on them? don't want to "waste" your "economic growth" on them ain?


 
what economic growth? We are third world country with 90p living below 2 dollar per day. Also we are a religiously fanatic state. On the other side we have thriving economy of pakistan with high standard middle class. And we have small hearts so you guys should open your big heart and give them space for dalistan. What will they do with the aids infested land of idol worshippers.

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## AAtish

divya said:


> what economic growth? We are third world country with 90p living below 2 dollar per day. Also we are a religiously fanatic state. On the other side we have thriving economy of pakistan with high standard middle class. And we have small hearts so you guys should open your big heart and give them space for dalistan. What will they do with the aids infested land of idol worshippers.


 
Oh we have BIG hearts.. 3.3 million Afghanis living in Pakistan are a proof of that.. on the other hand.. you are putting your own 180 million on offer.. so sad!

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## divya

AAtish said:


> Oh we have BIG hearts.. 3.3 million Afghanis living in Pakistan are a proof of that.. on the other hand.. you are putting your own 180 million on offer.. so sad!


 
yeah and we all know how much love they get. This forum itself is a live example....

And regarding offering. The point is lets see how many of them plan to move to big hearted pakistani dalitistan... Yeah and we would be thankful if you take mayawati and bandwagon dalit company along with you... And yeah we hate likes of behan mayawati...

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## 53fd

divya said:


> Yeah thanks, so which part of Pakistan would be good for it.... I guess pakistani punjab would be fine for them. After all you care for them so much. so when are you giving it up...


 


AAtish said:


> Oh we have BIG hearts.. 3.3 million Afghanis living in Pakistan are a proof of that.. on the other hand.. you are putting your own 180 million on offer.. so sad!


 
Almost 40% of the total population of Uttar Pradesh consists of Dalit Hindus (there are about 50 million Dalits in UP). There are 20% Muslims in UP as well. The Dalits in Uttar Pradesh should demand independence from India, & form their own nation (like Khalistan), & rename UP as 'Dalistan'


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## Mech

bilalhaider said:


> Almost 40% of the total population of Uttar Pradesh consists of Dalit Hindus (there are about 50 million Dalits in UP). There are 20% Muslims in UP as well. The Dalits in UP should demand independence from India, & form their own nation like Khalistan, & rename Uttar Pradesh as 'Dalistan'


 
we need an independent balochistan to add spice to the mix.


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## 53fd

Mech said:


> we definitely need an independent balochistan to add spice to the mix.


 
Think you better take care of Jammu & Kashmir before we start thinking about Balochistan. 

These are the separatist movements against the Indian state in J&K:

1. Lashkar-e-Omar (LeO) 
2. Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM) 
3. Harkat-ul-Ansar (HuA, presently known as Harkat-ul Mujahideen) 
4. Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) 
5. Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) 
6. Harkat-ul Mujahideen (HuM, previously known as Harkat-ul-Ansar) 
7. Al Badr 
8. Jamait-ul-Mujahideen (JuM) 
9. Lashkar-e-Jabbar (LeJ) 
10. Harkat-ul-Jehad-i-Islami 
11. Al Barq 
12. Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen 
13. Al Jehad 
14. Jammu & Kashir National Liberation Army 
15. People&#8217;s League 
16. Muslim Janbaz Force 
17. Kashmir Jehad Force 
18. Al Jehad Force (combines Muslim Janbaz Force and Kashmir Jehad Force) 
19. Al Umar Mujahideen 
20. Mahaz-e-Azadi 
21. Islami Jamaat-e-Tulba 
22. Jammu & Kashmir Students Liberation Front 
23. Ikhwan-ul-Mujahideen 
24. Islamic Students League 
25. Tehrik-e-Hurriat-e-Kashmir 
26. Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqar Jafaria 
27. Al Mustafa Liberation Fighters 
28. Tehrik-e-Jehad-e-Islami 
29. Muslim Mujahideen 
30. Al Mujahid Force 
31. Tehrik-e-Jehad 
32. Islami Inquilabi Mahaz 
33. Mutahida Jehad Council (MJC) 
34. Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF)
35. All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC)
36. Dukhtaran-e-Millat (DeM) 

These are the separatist movements inside Balochistan:

1. Balochistan Liberation Front 
2. Balochistan Liberation Army


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## divya

bilalhaider said:


> Almost 40% of the total population of Uttar Pradesh consists of Dalit Hindus (there are about 50 million Dalits in UP). There are 20% Muslims in UP as well. The Dalits in Uttar Pradesh should demand independence from India, & form their own nation (like Khalistan), & rename UP as 'Dalistan'


 
oops sorry this is india not pakistan. We are all for diversity. Unlike you we know how to manage language and other barriers without making bangladeshs out of them....


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## 53fd

divya said:


> oops sorry this is india not pakistan. We are all for diversity. Unlike you we know how to manage language and other barriers without making bangladeshs out of them....


 
I doubt your untouchable Dalits enjoy your "diversity" towards them. As you can see, the Kashmiris, your seven sister states are not really "enjoying" your "diversity" very much either.


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## divya

bilalhaider said:


> I doubt your untouchable Dalits enjoy your "diversity" towards them. As you can see, the Kashmiris, your seven sister states are not really "enjoying" your "diversity" very much either.


 
lol a dalit has more privelage in india then a general category if you know about india... Regarding east i dont need to go beyond gorkha regiment to tell the emotions.


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## GUNS-N- ROSES

bilalhaider said:


> Think you better take care of Jammu & Kashmir before we start thinking about Balochistan.
> 
> These are the separatist movements against the Indian state in J&K:
> 
> 1. Lashkar-e-Omar (LeO)
> 2. Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM)
> 3. Harkat-ul-Ansar (HuA, presently known as Harkat-ul Mujahideen)
> 4. Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT)
> 5. Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM)
> 6. Harkat-ul Mujahideen (HuM, previously known as Harkat-ul-Ansar)
> 7. Al Badr
> 8. Jamait-ul-Mujahideen (JuM)
> 9. Lashkar-e-Jabbar (LeJ)
> 10. Harkat-ul-Jehad-i-Islami
> 11. Al Barq
> 12. Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen
> 13. Al Jehad
> 14. Jammu & Kashir National Liberation Army
> 15. People&#8217;s League
> 16. Muslim Janbaz Force
> 17. Kashmir Jehad Force
> 18. Al Jehad Force (combines Muslim Janbaz Force and Kashmir Jehad Force)
> 19. Al Umar Mujahideen
> 20. Mahaz-e-Azadi
> 21. Islami Jamaat-e-Tulba
> 22. Jammu & Kashmir Students Liberation Front
> 23. Ikhwan-ul-Mujahideen
> 24. Islamic Students League
> 25. Tehrik-e-Hurriat-e-Kashmir
> 26. Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqar Jafaria
> 27. Al Mustafa Liberation Fighters
> 28. Tehrik-e-Jehad-e-Islami
> 29. Muslim Mujahideen
> 30. Al Mujahid Force
> 31. Tehrik-e-Jehad
> 32. Islami Inquilabi Mahaz
> 33. Mutahida Jehad Council (MJC)
> 34. Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF)
> 35. All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC)
> 36. Dukhtaran-e-Millat (DeM)
> 
> These are the separatist movements inside Balochistan:
> 
> 1. Balochistan Liberation Front
> 2. Balochistan Liberation Army


 
sir ji hum itne saalon se ek saath in liberations ko sambhaal rahe hain aur aap do ko nahi sambhaal pa rahe.


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## Urbanized Greyhound

Khalistan is a dead - issue in India , Despite past events sikhs are just too well integrated in public life . But thanks to GOI apathy , the Khalistan banner flourishes in a select few places like Canada . The RAW should start a concerted pro-India campaign using Indian soft power to gradually reduce the influence of extremist organizations like Babbar Khalsa etc. Inability to iron out the last dregs of such organizations has long been our bane .


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## 53fd

GUNS-N- ROSES said:


> sir ji hum itne saalon se ek saath in liberations ko sambhaal rahe hain aur aap do ko nahi sambhaal pa rahe.


 


> Most Kashmiris say they want freedom from India. *Polling since 1995 has found at least two-thirds of those living in the Kashmir valley want independence.* Some older Kashmiris still talk of joining Pakistan,* but two-thirds of Kashmiris under age 30 mostly want independence*.



Kashmir 101: Decoding Kashmir's conflict - What do Kashmiris want now? - CSMonitor.com

Most Kashmiris want independence, India imposes curfew | Asia-Pasific | World Bulletin


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## 53fd

divya said:


> lol a dalit has more privelage in india then a general category if you know about india... Regarding east i dont need to go beyond gorkha regiment to tell the emotions.


 
I realize certain Dalits have done well in India. The Chief Minister of UP is a Dalit. However, the issue of untouchability still remains to a large extent, despite the certain upliftment improvements they have made in their status. But the concessions made to the Dalits applies only to those that remain Hindu.


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## clmeta

bilalhaider said:


> They are more than welcome to be part of Pakistani Punjab sure
> 
> Most of India's fertile land will be gone, & there are already too many farmers that commit suicide in other parts of India every year.



They know they are never welcome in Pakistani Punjab. They were ejected from there.


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## Kinetic

bilalhaider said:


> I realize certain Dalits have done well in India. The Chief Minister of UP is a Dalit. However, the issue of untouchability still remains to a large extent, despite the certain upliftment improvements they have made in their status. But the concessions made to the Dalits applies only to those that remain Hindu.


 
What you do to the person who concerts from Muslim to other religion? What is blasphemy? What happened to the minorities in Pakistan from 1947 to 2001? Lets see.


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## divya

bilalhaider said:


> I realize certain Dalits have done well in India. The Chief Minister of UP is a Dalit. However, the issue of untouchability still remains to a large extent, despite the certain upliftment improvements they have made in their status. But the concessions made to the Dalits applies only to those that remain Hindu.


 
i didnt had idea that dalits also come under muslims. Previlages are given to sc, st, obc, bc. So whats your point.....

Regarding untouchbality which century are you living? Its illegal secondly it has been removed from majority of india apart from some isolated places and people.


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## red_baron

divya said:


> a dalit has more privelage in india then a general category if you know about india.


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## Roybot

^^This man is a Sikh too! Khalistanis had it coming their way.

Best way to not be at the receiving end of human rights abuse, don't get involved in anti-national activities and terrorism.

Jise dekho mooh utha kar chale aate hain alag country banane, mazaak bana rakha hai. I have no sympathy for these people.

However coming back to topic, these people should be allowed to visit India now. If they come to India and start this Khalistan BS again, am sure it will be the Sikhs in Punjab who will shut them up.

Jab Pakistanis India aa sakte hain to phir ye "Khalistanis" kyun nahin.


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## 53fd

divya said:


> i didnt had idea that dalits also come under muslims. Previlages are given to sc, st, obc, bc. So whats your point.....
> 
> Regarding untouchbality which century are you living? Its illegal secondly it has been removed from majority of india apart from some isolated places and people.



Status of converted Dalits:

When Indian Dalits Convert to Christianity or Islam, they lose Social Welfare Benefits and Rights they are Guaranteed under the Constitution | Thomas Schirrmacher

Tehelka - India's Independent Weekly News Magazine

http://www.wsj-asia.com/pdf/opc_award/THE_UNTOUCHABLES.pdf

The Dalit Christians to stop fraudulent conversion in India - Christian Aggression


Untouchability in India:

After 60 yrs of Independence, untouchability alive and kicking in India - Times Of India

International Dalit Solidarity Network:

New India Study Finds Untouchability Pervasive Across Public and Private Life | Robert F. Kennedy Center for Justice & Human Rights



> Caste-based discrimination, or &#8220;untouchability&#8221;, against Dalits, the community referred to as &#8220;untouchables&#8221;, continues to penetrate numerous aspects of daily life in India. This is the main finding of a new report released today by the Robert F. Kennedy Center for Justice and Human Rights (RFK Center) and Navsarjan Trust entitled Understanding Untouchability: A Comprehensive Study of Practices and Conditions. This study, the largest data gathering effort to date on the topic, was conducted in 1589 villages with 5462 respondents and collected by 106 Navsarjan members in* Gujarat*, the western-most state in India.
> 
> *The 56-page report addresses almost all known untouchability practices, including the segregation of housing, drinking-water wells, places of religious worships, and separate sitting arrangement in schools and public events by touchable and untouchable caste*, which continue to be nearly universally practiced across villages in Gujarat, despite national laws banning such actions.



India&#39;s "Untouchables" Face Violence, Discrimination

Untouchability in Rural India | New Asia Books

Untouchability in Modern India & How to Eradicate It | India First-Hand


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## Kinetic

In India 50% of the jobs and high education seats in reputed institutions are reserved for lower castes.


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## GUNS-N- ROSES

khalistan is dead and buried. 

wahe guru ji da khalsa wahe guruji di fateh.


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## red_baron

Kinetic said:


> In India 50% of the jobs and high education seats in reputed institutions are reserved for lower castes.


 
joke of the century


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## clmeta

bilalhaider said:


> Almost 40% of the total population of Uttar Pradesh consists of Dalit Hindus (there are about 50 million Dalits in UP). There are 20% Muslims in UP as well. The Dalits in Uttar Pradesh should demand independence from India, & form their own nation (like Khalistan), & rename UP as 'Dalistan'


 
Help them financially dude. Give them 20 % of what you beg from America for killing your own people?


----------



## Kinetic

bilalhaider said:


> Status of converted Dalits:
> 
> When Indian Dalits Convert to Christianity or Islam, they lose Social Welfare Benefits and Rights they are Guaranteed under the Constitution | Thomas Schirrmacher
> 
> Tehelka - India's Independent Weekly News Magazine
> 
> http://www.wsj-asia.com/pdf/opc_award/THE_UNTOUCHABLES.pdf
> 
> The Dalit Christians to stop fraudulent conversion in India - Christian Aggression
> 
> 
> Untouchability in India:
> 
> After 60 yrs of Independence, untouchability alive and kicking in India - Times Of India
> 
> International Dalit Solidarity Network:
> 
> New India Study Finds Untouchability Pervasive Across Public and Private Life | Robert F. Kennedy Center for Justice & Human Rights
> 
> 
> 
> India&#39;s "Untouchables" Face Violence, Discrimination
> 
> Untouchability in Rural India | New Asia Books
> 
> Untouchability in Modern India & How to Eradicate It | India First-Hand


 
If it is for lower castes than why other religion people should get benefit of it? In Pakistan do you have any reservation for Shia or Ahmedis? What benefit they get?


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## Kinetic

red_baron said:


> joke of the century


 
Living under military rules and talking about free world......... yes, joke of the century!! But this is not new for you.

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## clmeta

respect4respect01 said:


> 30 thousand, then 30 lakh, then 30 crore, then u have to give it a LOT of importance


 
I know you are speaking from the Bangladesh experience.
Don't worry its not going to happen in India.


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## 53fd

Kinetic said:


> If it is for lower castes than why other religion people should get benefit of it? In Pakistan do you have any reservation for *Shia* or Ahmedis? What benefit they get?


 
Shias & Ahmedis are not discriminated in any way in terms of job prospects. I'm a Shia myself. Btw, Shias are Muslims, there is no difference between Shias & Sunnis constitutionally. Zardari is a Shia & he's the president of Pakistan, as was Z.A.Bhutto & Benazir Bhutto, as was Jinnah. Ahmedis can do all the same things in Pakistan except be the President/Prime Minister of the country I believe, as they are not Muslims. But Ahmedis (as well as Christians, Hindus, other religions) can do *every other thing that a Muslim can do* (besides being the Prime Minister & President of the country).


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## Kinetic

bilalhaider said:


> Shias & Ahmedis are not discriminated in any way in terms of job prospects.


We know very much how they are treated but I am not asking about this. I want to know what benefit they gets. 



> Btw, Shias are Muslims, there is no difference between Shias & Sunnis constitutionally. Zardari is a Shia & he's the president of Pakistan, as was Z.A.Bhutto & Benazir Bhutto, as was Jinnah. Ahmedis can do all the same things in Pakistan except be the President/PM of the country I believe, as they are not Muslims. But Ahmedis (as well as Christians, Hindus, other religions) can do *every other thing that a Muslim can do* (besides being the PM & President of the country).


 
Dalits also Hindu and Dalits became CM, high ranking minister etc. 50% of all govt jobs are reserved for lower castes. What about you country? How minorities and Ahmedis are treated in your country from 1947 if I say than you will find some incomparable figures by any where in the world.




> *every other thing that a Muslim can do*


What everything Muslim can do? Eat, sleep etc?


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## Vinod2070

bilalhaider said:


> They are more than welcome to be part of Pakistani Punjab sure
> 
> Most of India's fertile land will be gone, & there are already too many farmers that *commit suicide *in other parts of India every year.


 
A Pakistani talking of suicide! Your suicides are more deadly, no?

They take one directly to the 72, along with 100s of people worshipping in mosques or shopping in markets!

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## Vinod2070

bilalhaider said:


> Maybe a 'Dalistan' for the 180 million oppressed untouchable Dalits in India?


 
May be a separate state in Pakistan for the tribals, Sindhis, Punjab divided in separate parts for the Sarikis etc, Baloch (oh yes) and one for each of the hundreds of sects, including the kaffir Shia and Ahmedis.

All Pakistanis are wajib-Ul-Qatl as per the Talibunnis anyways.

I doubt the Mohajirs and Biharis will get anything BTW.


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## 53fd

Vinod2070 said:


> A Pakistani talking of suicide! Your suicides are more deadly, no?
> 
> They take one directly to the 72, along with 100s of people worshipping in mosques or shopping in markets!


 
2 farmers commit suicide every hour, & over 17000 farmers in India commit suicide every year (for over the last 15 years):

The Hindu : Open Page : Our farmers are dying, to hell with the World Cup

One Farmer&#8217;s Suicide Every 30 Minutes - STWR - Share The World&#039;s Resources


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## Kinetic

bilalhaider said:


> They are more than welcome to be part of Pakistani Punjab sure


They are welcome? You are naming your Punjab as Khalistan! ood yes, Most of Pakistani Punjab is als part of Khalistan dream including Lahore, Islamabad! Now you are in trap!  



> Most of India's fertile land will be gone,


Punjab occupies less than 2% of India's land. 



> & there are already too many farmers that *commit suicide* in other parts of India every year.


What a man is this?!!! Have you ever seen anyone committing suicide? I have seen you photo on the forum, now I am learning more.


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## jayron

bilalhaider said:


> I realize certain Dalits have done well in India. The Chief Minister of UP is a Dalit. However, the issue of untouchability still remains to a large extent, despite the certain upliftment improvements they have made in their status. But the concessions made to the Dalits applies only to those that remain Hindu.


 
Indian constitution has done everything to uplift the oppressed. The affirmative action taken to help the Dalits has not been implemented anywhere else in this scale and scope. You should really take a look at your country where bonded labor and zagirdari are still not outlawed. Your county does not have the minority population that India has. But you guys still managed to make their lives miserable. I don't know what you are achieving by arguing with us when I have not seen you voice concern about your country even once in this forum. You can do better than this.

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## Kinetic

bilalhaider said:


> 2 farmers commit suicide every hour, & over 17000 farmers in India commit suicide every year (for over the last 15 years):
> 
> The Hindu : Open Page : Our farmers are dying, to hell with the World Cup
> 
> One Farmer&#8217;s Suicide Every 30 Minutes - STWR - Share The World&#039;s Resources



When Pakistan Punjab become part of Khalistan what will be the food production of Pakistan?


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## red_baron

India&#039;s poor urged to eat rats // Current


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## Kinetic

^^^^ Got you kicked? You are well known coward.Cannot even fight over internet and run away.


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## axisofevil

They should demand it from Pakistan....because that is where the bulk of the Sikh empire existed.....

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## 53fd

Kinetic said:


> We know very much how they are treated but I am not asking about this. I want to know what benefit they gets.
> 
> 
> 
> Dalits also Hindu and Dalits became CM, high ranking minister etc. 50% of all govt jobs are reserved for lower castes. What about you country? How minorities and Ahmedis are treated in your country from 1947 if I say than you will find some incomparable figures by any where in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> What everything Muslim can do? Eat, sleep etc?


 
You fail to understand a few things. Reservations/quotas are indicative that there is inherent bias & discrimination in the system (which is obviously not a good thing), & the quota is sometimes used as a means to 'balance' this. And this is seen in West Bengal where Muslims are reserved certain state level jobs under the Other Backward Caste (OBC) quota. However, many of these quotas, such as the OBC quota does not do anything to eradicate discrimination (or even alleviate it) against the Muslims. 

Reservation for Muslim OBCs in West Bengal a sham? | TwoCircles.net



> Referring to the hype over reservation to Muslim Other Backward Castes (OBC) in West Bengal, the chief economist of National Council of Applied Economic Research (NCAER) Abusaleh Shariff said: *&#8220;This is the biggest cheating one can do with normal ordinary Muslims because as opposed to the hype of 10% reservation, it&#8217;s just 0.7% reservation which the government has provided to OBC Muslims.&#8221;*
> 
> While making a presentation on the socio-economic condition of Muslims in West Bengal Mr. Shariff also said the problem here is that only 2.4 % of Muslims in West Bengal have been identified as the Other Backward Classes by the Left government. So, practically just 2.4% of total Muslim population has been provided with the reservation of 0.7%. This kind of political gimmick can&#8217;t enable the community to rise above its backwardness, he further said.


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## 53fd

jayron said:


> Indian constitution has done everything to uplift the oppressed. The affirmative action taken to help the Dalits has not been followed anywhere else in this scale and scope. You should really take a look at your country where bonded labor and zagirdari are still not outlawed. Your county does not have the minority population that India has. But you guys still managed to make their lives miserable. I don't know what you are achieving by arguing with us when I have not seen you voice concern about your country even once in this forum. You can do better than this.


 
Yes, the landlord/jagirdari/wadera system is a big problem in Pakistan which needs to be resolved ASAP.


----------



## red_baron

"There are twin advantages of this proposal. First, we can save about half of our food grain stocks by catching and eating rats and secondly we can improve the economic condition of the Musahar community," he told the BBC. 

BBC NEWS | South Asia | India's poor urged to 'eat rats'


----------



## Kinetic

^^^Most of the Sikh empire was in Pakistan. Googled and got this is the Sikh Empire.........

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## Vinod2070

bilalhaider said:


> 2 farmers commit suicide every hour, & over 17000 farmers in India commit suicide every year (for over the last 15 years):
> 
> The Hindu : Open Page : Our farmers are dying, to hell with the World Cup
> 
> One Farmers Suicide Every 30 Minutes - STWR - Share The World&#039;s Resources


 
But they don't do it to lay 72 hooris unlike yours!

They don't think blowing up kaffirs or Wajib-Ul-Qatl mufiqs (like you) is a ticket to Jannat.


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## 53fd

Kinetic said:


> When Pakistan Punjab become part of Khalistan what will be the food production of Pakistan?


 
I think when Khalistan becomes part of Pakistani Punjab, the food production of Pakistan will increase significantly as both Indian & Pakistani Punjab have fertile land & suitable conditions for crop growth.


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## 53fd

Vinod2070 said:


> But they don't do it to lay 72 hooris unlike yours!
> 
> They don't think blowing up kaffirs or Wajib-Ul-Qatl mufiqs (like you) is a ticket to Jannat.


 
Calm down son, & take care of your 17000 poor farmers that commit suicide in 'Shining India' every year. I'm not mocking their deaths, it's tragic that such large numbers have to die every year through no fault of their own but difficult circumstances, but take care of your people first before lecturing Pakistan.


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## Vinod2070

bilalhaider said:


> Calm down son, & take care of your 17000 poor farmers that commit suicide in 'Shining India' every year.


 
But not to get the 72 hooris or to be paid a few hundred bucks for killing hundreds unlike yours.

Remember those paintings of the Jannat by your TTP that they get for blowing up Pakistani munafiqs.


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## foxbat

bilalhaider said:


> I think when Khalistan becomes part of Pakistani Punjab, the food production of Pakistan will increase significantly as both Indian & Pakistani Punjab have fertile land & suitable conditions for crop growth.


 
Hajaron Khwaishey aisi ki har khwaish pe dum nikle 

Isnt Pakistan the only country in Asia which has actually lost land mass after Independence. ?? 

Jigar mein dum nahin.. Hum kissi se Kam nahin .. lol


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## StingRoy

Kinetic said:


> ^^^Most of the Sikh empire was in Pakistan. Googled and got this is the Sikh Empire.........


Yes in fact it was almost more than half the fertile "Indus Valley"...which some claim as their land since neanderthal ages.


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## Kinetic

bilalhaider said:


> You fail to understand a few things. Reservations/quotas are indicative that there is inherent bias & discrimination in the system (which is obviously not a good thing), & the quota is sometimes used as a means to 'balance' this. And this is seen in West Bengal where Muslims are reserved certain state level jobs under the Other Backward Caste (OBC) quota. However, many of these quotas, such as the OBC quota does not do anything to eradicate discrimination (or even alleviate it) against the Muslims.
> 
> Reservation for Muslim OBCs in West Bengal a sham? | TwoCircles.net


 
Why you are talking about Muslims now talk about Dalits. That is big lie there is 10% jobs reserved for Muslim OBC in WB. what non-Muslims in Pakistan? Do not run away! What happened to the minorities in Pakistan since 1947? How much percentage it was than and now. 

*You talk about Sikh and others here but Sikhs got all high ranking positions in India since independence but being similar % Hindus in Pakistan h 
as got nothing. *

Sikhs in India 1.8%
Hindus in Pakistan 1.8%


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## 53fd

foxbat said:


> Hajaron Khwaishey aisi ki har khwaish pe dum nikle
> 
> Isnt Pakistan the only country in Asia which has actually lost land mass after Independence. ??
> 
> Jigar mein dum nahin.. Hum kissi se Kam nahin .. lol


 
But didn't you lose part of your 'India' in the form of Pakistan in 1947 as well? Didn't India lose out almost 45% of Kashmir to Pakistan as well ?


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## 53fd

Kinetic said:


> Why you are talking about Muslims now talk about Dalits. That is big lie there is 10% jobs reserved for Muslim OBC in WB. what non-Muslims in Pakistan? Do not run away! What happened to the minorities in Pakistan since 1947? How much percentage it was than and now.
> 
> *You talk about Sikh and others here but Sikhs got all high ranking positions in India since independence but being similar % Hindus in Pakistan h
> as got nothing. *
> 
> Sikhs in India 1.8%
> Hindus in Pakistan 1.8%


 
Minorities in Pakistan chose to migrate to India after 1947 through their own choice. This accounted for the huge drop in the % of minorities in Pakistan post 1947. The ones left behind are employed in all fields of life, as well as in the Army, government, civil society, education, medicine & all other fields of life.


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## Kinetic

bilalhaider said:


> Calm down son, & take care of your 17000 poor farmers that commit suicide in 'Shining India' every year. I'm not mocking their deaths, it's tragic that such large numbers have to die every year through no fault of their own but difficult circumstances,


You are one sick guy! Really man have a life beyond India. No one ever posted anything low like that. Feel sorry for you. 




> but take care of your people first before lecturing Pakistan.


Now thats funny!!! But you talk about INDIA!  I love to post for people like you and Jana, Omar etc.


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## Masterchief

bilalhaider said:


> They are more than welcome to be part of Pakistani Punjab sure
> 
> Most of India's fertile land will be gone, & there are already too many farmers that commit suicide in other parts of India every year.


 khalistan extends to lahore, and their leaders have always considered india as stupid but Pakistan as an enemy,if khalistan is made pakistan would again disintegrate, now do you want that to happen. BAN THIS KHALISTANI GUY MODS.


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## 53fd

Masterchief said:


> khalistan extends to lahore, and their leaders have always considered india as stupid but Pakistan as an enemy,if khalistan is made pakistan would again disintegrate, now do you want that to happen. BAN THIS KHALISTANI GUY MODS.


 
As I said, Khalistan will always be welcomed to be part of Pakistani Punjab in Pakistan.


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## Kinetic

bilalhaider said:


> Minorities in Pakistan chose to migrate to India after 1947 through their own choice. This accounted for the huge drop in the % of minorities in Pakistan post 1947. The ones left behind are employed in all fields of life, as well as in the Army, government, civil society, education, medicine & all other fields of life.


 
Do not run away!! i am talking about minorities after 1947. just recently a Hindus died in Islamabad plane crash named as 'kafir'! On the other hand percentage of Muslims increased since independence. Latest US reports of 1971 war says what happened to Hindus in Bangladesh. 


The funny thing is when you are staying in a glass house want to throw stones to others but we know what happens after that!!!


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## Kinetic

bilalhaider said:


> As I said, Khalistan will always be welcomed to be part of Pakistani Punjab in Pakistan.


 
What? According to Khalistanis, Pakistani Punjab should become part of Pakistan. Do you agree now?


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## Kinetic

bilalhaider said:


> But didn't you lose part of your 'India' in the form of Pakistan in 1947 as well? Didn't India lose out almost 45% of Kashmir to Pakistan as well ?


 
You mean Kashmir part of India and we lost 45% to Pakistan?


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## red_baron

their empire might have existed in Pakistani punjab but they originated from indian punjab and thats their real homeland and the real khalsa





how can sikhs forget operation shudi karan 1984 (raping sikh women) that was aimed at altering sikh genetics ??

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## Kinetic

StingRoy said:


> Yes in fact it was almost more than half the fertile "Indus Valley"...which some claim as their land since neanderthal ages.


 
But Pakistanis support Khalistan thats a fact!!! Here is a false flag starting threads!!! I loved it. lol I think as capital they should choose Lahore because this was the capital of 'Maharaja of Lahore' Ranjit Singh.

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## DEMI GOD

yup pakistan has captured much land of punjab empire ,so when (if ever) khalisthan emerges it will emerge on pakistan soil and again pakistan divided in two countries


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## GUNS-N- ROSES

i truly support khalistan with lahore as capital.

on anothe note, wahe guruji da khalsa wahe guruji di fateh.

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## 53fd

Kinetic said:


> Do not run away!! i am talking about minorities after 1947. just recently a Hindus died in Islamabad plane crash named as 'kafir'! On the other hand percentage of Muslims increased since independence. Latest US reports of 1971 war says what happened to Hindus in Bangladesh.
> 
> 
> The funny thing is when you are staying in a glass house want to throw stones to others but we know what happens after that!!!


 
Why do you say "Do not run away!!" after every post ? I'm not 

Anyways, some links for you:

Hindus in Pakistan:











Sikhs in Pakistan:











Christians in Pakistan:

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## Kinetic

red_baron said:


> their empire might have existed in Pakistani punjab but they originated from indian punjab and thats their real homeland and the real khalsa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how can sikhs forget operation shudi karan 1984 (raping sikh women) that was aimed at altering sikh genetics ??


 
OK than left Pakistani Punjab first, it was constituted most of Sikh lands. Left Lahore, it was the capital. 



> (raping sikh women)


BS!!! No one is comparable to you in that. You are a pure example of that!!!

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## DEMI GOD

dude dont u think u are making fun of urself in every khalisthan related topic ,there is no khalisthan and will be never ,there is india and always will be india so pls stop making fool out of u and become Indian patriot


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## 53fd

Kinetic said:


> You mean Kashmir part of India and we lost 45% to Pakistan?


 
India claims that Pakistan administered Kashmir is Pakistan occupied Kashmir, & that the entire Kashmir is an integral part of India.


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## DEMI GOD

Kashmir is and will be integral part of India ,no doubt on that any one questioning that will get answer from every Indian member in pdf


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## red_baron

interesting how indians are playing with sentiments of sikhs after all this 



C.K.C Reddy, an Indian journalist writes that the

"Whole of Punjab and especially the Golden Temple Complex was turned into a murderous mouse trap from where people could neither escape nor could they seek succor of any kind. The way the dead bodies were disposed off adds to the suspicions regarding the number and nature of the casualties. The bodies of the victims of military operation in Punjab were unceremoniously destroyed without any attempt to identify them and hand them over to their relatives. The government, after the operation, on the other hand, did every thing in its power to cover up the excesses of the army action. The most disturbing thing about the entire operation was that a whole mass of men, women, and children were ordered to be killed merely on the suspicion that some terrorists were operating from the Golden Temple and other Gurdwaras."



Operation Blue Star - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## 53fd

DEMI GOD said:


> Kashmir is and will be integral part of India ,no doubt on that any one questioning that will get answer from every Indian member in pdf


 
Thank you for proving my point


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## Kinetic

bilalhaider said:


> Why do you say "Do not run away!!" after every post ? I'm not


 
I say do not run away because you do not have guts to post reply for most of the posts and selectively replying some.  



> Anyways, some links for you:
> 
> Hindus in Pakistan:



 Some youtube videos? Do you want me to posts what happened to Hindus in Pakistan? Why their % have declined so much when Muslim population increased in India! 

Sikh and Hindu population % are same of India and Pakistan but they have no representation anywhere near to India. Our PM is a Sikh! Our soldiers have Sikh regiments, our planning commission chief is Sikh, our representative to UN is Sikh!


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## harshad

bilalhaider said:


> India claims that Pakistan administered Kashmir is Pakistan occupied Kashmir, & that the entire Kashmir is an integral part of India.


 
so whats the problem with that isnt pakistan side of kashmir called azad kashmir but it is not completely free is it


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## Kinetic

bilalhaider said:


> India claims that Pakistan administered Kashmir is Pakistan occupied Kashmir, & that the entire Kashmir is an integral part of India.


 
Tell me that you agree full Kashmir is integral part of India and then wait for my reply. Let see what I bring to you.


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## 53fd

Kinetic said:


> Some youtube videos? Do you want me to posts what happened to Hindus in Pakistan?



I can post you news *far far far* worse for the minorities in India than the minorities of Pakistan.



> Why their % have declined so much when Muslim population increased in India!



Because the minorities in Pakistan decided to leave for India in huge numbers, which accounted for the huge % decrease. Also remember that Bangladesh also accounted for a high % of non-Muslim minorities, which is why the % of Muslims (which had decreased significantly after most Pakistani minorities left for India) of 1947 dropped even further after 1971, when East Pakistan became Bangladesh.

The Muslims have very very high birth rates where ever they go, which is why the Muslim population in India increased significantly after 1947. Non-Muslim minorities do not have such high birth rates. 



> Sikh and Hindu population % are same of India and Pakistan but they have no representation anywhere near to India.


 
The population of Pakistani & Indian Muslims is almost the same as well, let's start comparing the two 

---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 AM ----------




Kinetic said:


> Tell me that you agree full Kashmir is integral part of India and then wait for my reply. Let see what I bring to you.


 
Doesn't matter what I believe in haha. Although your government clearly believes Kashmir is the integral territory of India.


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## DEMI GOD

ok lets make khalisthan with lahore as a capital .then there will be no threat to sikhs .wt say red_baron ,,,,,,,,,,
btw dude this is India internal m88r and some of pakistan person like u never learn ,remmber wt ever our problem are but in battlefeild u will always come to face a indian not a sikh and this was all in 1984 its 2011,,,,,,,if u read newspaper u will learn there are sikhs in pakistan also and pakistan has make there life a hell they are being killed ,kidnapped ,forced religious change and it is in present ,so i think u have no right to blame india over sikh issue ,first see in ur backyard ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism_in_Pakistan#The_emergence_of_the_Sikh_community_within_Pakistan


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## DEMI GOD

btw dude this is India internal m88r and some of pakistan person like u never learn ,remmber wt ever our problem are but in battlefeild u will always come to face a indian not a sikh and this was all in 1984 its 2011,,,,,,,if u read newspaper u will learn there are sikhs in pakistan also and pakistan has make there life a hell they are being killed ,kidnapped ,forced religious change and it is in present ,so i think u have no right to blame india over sikh issue ,first see in ur backyard ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism...ithin_Pakistan


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## DEMI GOD

ok lets make khalisthan with lahore as a capital .then there will be no threat to sikhs .wt say red_baron ,,,,,,,,,,
btw dude this is India internal m88r and some of pakistan person like u never learn ,remmber wt ever our problem are but in battlefeild u will always come to face a indian not a sikh and this was all in 1984 its 2011,,,,,,,if u read newspaper u will learn there are sikhs in pakistan also and pakistan has make there life a hell they are being killed ,kidnapped ,forced religious change and it is in present ,so i think u have no right to blame india over sikh issue ,first see in ur backyard ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## Icarus

This thread was made by an Indian in response to a separatist. Why drag Pakistan in here ? Every Tom, Dick and Harry is dragging Pakistan in. If you have no other way to rebut this fellow then please click the Log out button on the top right corner of your screen and come back when you have achieved some clarity of thought regarding the issue. It's not only this thread on any thread I open all I see is that it starts with Khalistan and ends on Balochistan free, Sindh annexed, and Punbjab a part of Khalistan.

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## Ajaxpaul

false flaggers are always welcome, its a satisfying experience to see their frustration seeping out through their flags...i really enjoy reading their post. They know that they are beating a dead horse hoping it will come live!!. foolish people

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## 53fd

red_baron said:


> interesting how indians are playing with sentiments of sikhs after all this
> 
> 
> 
> C.K.C Reddy, an Indian journalist writes that the
> 
> "Whole of Punjab and especially the Golden Temple Complex was turned into a murderous mouse trap from where people could neither escape nor could they seek succor of any kind. The way the dead bodies were disposed off adds to the suspicions regarding the number and nature of the casualties. The bodies of the victims of military operation in Punjab were unceremoniously destroyed without any attempt to identify them and hand them over to their relatives. The government, after the operation, on the other hand, did every thing in its power to cover up the excesses of the army action. The most disturbing thing about the entire operation was that a whole mass of men, women, and children were ordered to be killed merely on the suspicion that some terrorists were operating from the Golden Temple and other Gurdwaras."
> 
> 
> 
> Operation Blue Star - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 
Forget it red_baron bhai, the Indians lie about pro-Khalistan supporters demanding Pakistani Punjab as part of their land. I've never a pro-Khalistan supporter ever say that. Indians deliberately lie so that Pakistanis do not support the Khalistan movement, plain & simple. I would simply ignore the Indian trolls.


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## DEMI GOD

ya thread was made by Indian ...but By mistake i think Pakistan people are speaking in this thread ,my point was if u guys urself are not right why are u pointing other that they did wrong


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## Icarus

DEMI GOD said:


> ok lets make khalisthan with lahore as a capital .then there will be no threat to sikhs .wt say red_baron ,,,,,,,,,,
> btw dude this is India internal m88r and some of pakistan person like u never learn ,remmber wt ever our problem are but in battlefeild u will always come to face a indian not a sikh and this was all in 1984 its 2011,,,,,,,if u read newspaper u will learn there are sikhs in pakistan also and pakistan has make there life a hell they are being killed ,kidnapped ,forced religious change and it is in present ,so i think u have no right to blame india over sikh issue ,first see in ur backyard ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


 
Actually, sikhs in Pakistan enjoy complete freedom from any sort of govt policy in all their religious centres. These places are managed, restored and run by sikhs. Only the money if provided by govt. How come I never came across all this problems relating to sikhs in Pakistan ? Because they don't exist........

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## 53fd

Kakgeta said:


> Actually, sikhs in Pakistan enjoy complete freedom from any sort of govt policy in all their religious centres. These places are managed, restored and run by sikhs. Only the money if provided by govt. How come I never came across all this problems relating to sikhs in Pakistan ? Because they don't exist........


 
True, this is the reality of Khalistan supporters:



> Indians lie about pro-Khalistan supporters demanding Pakistani Punjab as part of their land. I've never a pro-Khalistan supporter ever say that. Indians deliberately lie so that Pakistanis do not support the Khalistan movement or have any sympathies towards them, plain & simple. I would simply ignore the Indian trolls.


----------



## Icarus

DEMI GOD said:


> ya thread was made by Indian ...but By mistake i think Pakistan people are speaking in this thread ,my point was if u guys urself are not right why are u pointing other that they did wrong


 
So what's your point ? I'm not asking you to tell me who is posting, I can very well see that. I am asking as to why you guys are making it a Pak-bashing orgy ?

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## red_baron

ajaxpaul said:


> false flaggers are always welcome, its a satisfying experience to see their frustration seeping out through their flags...i really enjoy reading their post. They know that they are beating a dead horse hoping it will come live!!. foolish people


 
you are calling dead sikhs,dead horses?


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## DEMI GOD

i think u have vision problem reading the wikipedia completely ,ignorance is not goin to help u in here


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## StingRoy

Kakgeta said:


> Actually, sikhs in Pakistan enjoy complete freedom from any sort of govt policy in all their religious centres. These places are managed, restored and run by sikhs. Only the money if provided by govt. How come I never came across all this problems relating to sikhs in Pakistan ? Because they don't exist........


 
Family appeals for Sikh kidnapped in Pakistan - Channel 4 News

Kidnapped Sikhs Forced to Cut their Hair and Embrace Islam | The Chakra News

2 kidnapped Sikhs rescued in Khyber | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

Slaughter Of Sikhs In Pakistan | The Sunday Leader

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## Kinetic

bilalhaider said:


> I can post you news *far far far* worse for the minorities in India than the minorities of Pakistan.


What you can post far far worse? Massacre of 200000 Hindus in 1971? Blasphemy law? 




> Because the minorities in Pakistan decided to leave for India in huge numbers,


Same BS, I am talking about post 1947. 


> which accounted for the huge % decrease. Also remember that Bangladesh also accounted for a high % of non-Muslim minorities, which is why the % of Muslims (which had decreased significantly after most Pakistani minorities left for India) of 1947 dropped even further after 1971, when East Pakistan became Bangladesh.


I am talking about West Pakistan. The Blasphemy law and else. 



> The Muslims have very very high birth rates where ever you go, which is why the Muslim population in India increased significantly after 1947. Non-Muslim minorities do not have such high birth rates.


What? Is this an argument here for increased minority in India and decreased in Pakistan? 





> The population of Pakistani & Indian Muslims is almost the same as well, let's start comparing the two


You wanna compare majority with minority?  Let compare. How many Muslims killed in Pakistan since 1947 and how many in India. You cannot compare that because alone in Bangladesh too many you killed. So better see where you are. 




> Doesn't matter what I believe in haha. Although your government clearly believes Kashmir is the integral territory of India.


 If it does not matter what you believe even to you than why talk? Why you said proudly that Pakistan took 45% of Kashmir?


*When you support khalistan you did not say what baout Lahore being capital of it? When most of the Sikh lands are in Pakistan punjab now. *


----------



## 53fd

StingRoy said:


> Family appeals for Sikh kidnapped in Pakistan - Channel 4 News
> 
> Kidnapped Sikhs Forced to Cut their Hair and Embrace Islam | The Chakra News
> 
> 2 kidnapped Sikhs rescued in Khyber | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online


 
You're quoting a news report of 2 Sikhs getting kidnapped, in a country where a lot of Muslims are getting killed everyday. Do you want me to post the thousands of Indian Muslims, Sikhs, Christians & other minorities that are being killed in your country?


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## AvidSpice

Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones at others houses! Duh! How true!


----------



## DEMI GOD

Kakgeta said:


> So what's your point ? I'm not asking you to tell me who is posting, I can very well see that. I am asking as to why you guys are making it a Pak-bashing orgy ?


 
We are nt interested with u guys till u try to put ur leg in our m88r .and when we ask why u did put ur leg at 1 st point u teeling me we r doin pak-bashing orgy ........


----------



## red_baron

StingRoy said:


> Family appeals for Sikh kidnapped in Pakistan - Channel 4 News
> 
> Kidnapped Sikhs Forced to Cut their Hair and Embrace Islam | The Chakra News
> 
> 2 kidnapped Sikhs rescued in Khyber | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online
> 
> Slaughter Of Sikhs In Pakistan | The Sunday Leader


 
4 cases?you killed 4 million in 1984 sikh massacre govt sponsored


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## macho ki macho

Propagandu aticle onlee. Does not deserve serious consideration. 

84 was a political backlash and not social or cultural.


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## StingRoy

bilalhaider said:


> You're quoting a news report of 2 Sikhs getting kidnapped, in a country where a lot of Muslims are getting killed everyday. Do you want me to post the thousands of Indian Muslims, Sikhs, Christians & other minorities that are being killed in your country?


 
Just replying to the claim by the poster that he never came across any problems with Sikhs in Pakistan.


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## 53fd

red_baron said:


> 4 cases?you killed 4 million in 1984 sikh massacre govt sponsored


 
Not 4 million, about 10,000 - 17,000 Sikhs were killed in 1984.


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## AvidSpice

bilalhaider said:


> You're quoting a news report of 2 Sikhs getting kidnapped, in a country where a lot of *Muslims are getting killed everyday*. Do you want me to post the thousands of Indian Muslims, Sikhs & other minorities that are being killed in your country?


 
Everyday? Can you give me some sources that says that Muslims are killed everyday? What about the stats from 1st April- 26th April, 2011?

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## Icarus

StingRoy said:


> Family appeals for Sikh kidnapped in Pakistan - Channel 4 News
> 
> Kidnapped Sikhs Forced to Cut their Hair and Embrace Islam | The Chakra News
> 
> 
> 
> 2 kidnapped Sikhs rescued in Khyber | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online




I think I have made it clear in the past that the Taliban do not represent the state, it's people or it's policies. They persecute muslims and sikhs alike. If however you wish to see state sponsored terrorism against sikh well, the killings of sikhs in Delhi after Ms. Gandhi's murder is a fine example of just that.


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## DEMI GOD

well i am sikh and First of all there r no Sikhs killing goin on .it was 3 decades back ,if u have any link pls try to put light on wt u said .else keep quite 
and as for muslims get killed u better ask Indian muslims they will give u better answer to it that how much they love india ...see dude its not necessary wt happening in ur country shuld happen in India .india is more safer and peace loving ,,,,so stop teeling lie and give us link if u have...else do wt i say above

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## 53fd

StingRoy said:


> Just replying to the claim by the poster that he never came across any problems with Sikhs in Pakistan.


 
There are as bad if not worse problems for minorities inside India. There is no place free from persecution for anyone, whether that's Pakistan or the US. I can post you news reports of kidnappings & murders of people from different religious groups as well.


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## Black Widow

What the hell... The person who terminate Pakistani supported Khalistani movement was a Punjabi.. (K.P.S. Gill Sir) Pakistan is trying to bring life to this dead organization, but they forget that Sikhs are not illiterate like others...  

Charity begins at home, Instead of reviving Kalistani movement, I will suggest Pakistani brothers to think bout torture and murder going in Baluchistan...

Apna ghar to sambhalta nahi hai, chale hai hamare ghar ko dekhne...


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## Kinetic

What should be the capital of khalistan? Maharaja of Lahore SHER-E-PUNJAB Ranjit Singh's capital was Lahore!  Until 1947 there were significant % of population of Lahore was Sikh.


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## Icarus

DEMI GOD said:


> We are nt interested with u guys till u try to put ur leg in our m88r .and when we ask why u did put ur leg at 1 st point u teeling me we r doin pak-bashing orgy ........


 
It's a Pakistani forum ! The only reason most people are here is to see what Pakistanis think about various matters. If you want us to stay out of your matters then here is an idea for you, leave and join an Indian forum !


----------



## Ajaxpaul

red_baron said:


> you are calling dead sikhs,dead horses?



You may be hallucinating!!. Is the situation that bad in pakistan?? The drone attacks should stop immediately.


----------



## red_baron

bilalhaider said:


> Not 4 million, about 10,000 - 17,000 Sikhs were killed in 1984.


 
yea 17000 that was a typo


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## DEMI GOD

Kakgeta said:


> I think I have made it clear in the past that the Taliban do not represent the state, it's people or it's policies. They persecute muslims and sikhs alike. .


 
i agree with u taliban dont see while they kill ,but government sees they dont help sikhs when they r in trouble ,even when floods came to ur country the hindus and sikh family didnt got any help from gop they survived on there own ,


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## Kinetic

bilalhaider said:


> There are as bad if not worse problems for minorities inside India. There is no place free from persecution for anyone, whether that's Pakistan or the US. I can post you news reports of kidnappings & murders of people from different religious groups as well.


 
If the minorities in India is bad than there is no minorities all over the world, I do not even mention Pakistan which have state law against religious freedom.


----------



## 53fd

Avishekh said:


> Everyday? Can you give me some sources that says that Muslims are killed everyday? What about the stats from 1st April- 26th April, 2011?


 
Stop trolling. If I start quoting you latest news reports from Indian newspapers, you won't be liking it.


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## KS

Truth Teller said:


> the biggest disaster was the creation of india in 1947.


 
Yes --- disaster for Pakistan and God's grace for India

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## Icarus

DEMI GOD said:


> well i am sikh and First of all there r no Sikhs killing goin on .it was 3 decades back ,if u have any link pls try to put light on wt u said .else keep quite
> and as for muslims get killed u better ask Indian muslims they will give u better answer to it that how much they love india ...see dude its not necessary wt happening in ur country shuld happen in India .india is more safer and peace loving ,,,,so stop teeling lie and give us link if u have...else do wt i say above


 
I never said that Sikhs have any problem in India. Nor that there is any killing going on. My reason for joining this pathetic excuse for a discussion is to defend my country from the insults and taunts being hurled at it.


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## Kinetic

bilalhaider said:


> Stop trolling. If I start quoting you latest news reports from Indian newspapers, you won't be liking it.


 
Talk about Muslims in India and Pakistan? lol You are gonna hate the numbers.


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## DEMI GOD

there is a indian section in pdf and i think u currently are speaking in indian section and no offence but u r cutting ur own points .if u dont like my post u remmber where logout button is ..please press it


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## StingRoy

Kakgeta said:


> I think I have made it clear in the past that the Taliban do not represent the state, it's people or it's policies. They persecute muslims and sikhs alike. If however you wish to see state sponsored terrorism against sikh well, the killings of sikhs in Delhi after Ms. Gandhi's murder is a fine example of just that.


I agree to you point and similarly I can claim that there is no state sponsored terrorism against the Sikhs in India today. The unfortunate events that led to 84 need to be considered before making a judgement. I needn't say more on this issue.



bilalhaider said:


> There are as bad if not worse problems for minorities inside India. There is no place free from persecution for anyone, whether that's Pakistan or the US. I can post you news reports of kidnappings & murders of people from different religious groups as well.


Find me a sikh in India who feels persecuted by the policies of the Indian govt.


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## AvidSpice

bilalhaider said:


> Stop trolling. If I start quoting you latest news reports from Indian newspapers, you won't be liking it.


 
Dude, if you think I'm trolling, report me to the moderators. And I'll be grateful if you can from somewhere show me that Muslims are killed everyday..!

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## Ajaxpaul

bilalhaider said:


> Stop trolling. If I start quoting you latest news reports from Indian newspapers, you won't be liking it.


 
Yes you have proved that you are good in that..plz continue with the reports, dont let us keep you back.


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## Kinetic

Truth Teller said:


> the biggest disaster was the creation of india in 1947.


 
 Creation of India!!! Was India created? or Pakistan created?  Weren't we Indians before 1947!


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## Icarus

Black Widow said:


> What the hell... The person who terminate Pakistani supported Khalistani movement was a Punjabi.. (K.P.S. Gill Sir) Pakistan is trying to bring life to this dead organization, but they forget that Sikhs are not illiterate like others...
> 
> Charity begins at home, Instead of reviving Kalistani movement, I will suggest Pakistani brothers to think bout torture and murder going in Baluchistan...
> 
> Apna ghar to sambhalta nahi hai, chale hai hamare ghar ko dekhne...


 
There is no torture or murder going on in Balochistan. Infact, the military does not patrol any city of Balochistan other than Sui.
This false information is only spread by the BLA to help garner support for their cause. However, throwing a grenade into someone's house or killing a pedestrian hardly makes an organized resistance.


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## macho ki macho

India is a very very open society. You just have to put down your fanatic islamic lenses and look with your open eyes. 

Seriously mate, At least come to India and see how it works. Dont believe all the propaganda material that is taught to you in madarassa.


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## DEMI GOD

Kakgeta said:


> I never said that Sikhs have any problem in India. Nor that there is any killing going on. My reason for joining this pathetic excuse for a discussion is to defend my country from the insults and taunts being hurled at it.


 
see brother clapping is with to hand ,better not to start it ,,,,,,


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## Icarus

DEMI GOD said:


> i agree with u taliban dont see while they kill ,but government sees they dont help sikhs when they r in trouble ,even when floods came to ur country the hindus and sikh family didnt got any help from gop they survived on there own ,


 
Absolutely incorrect ! The govt spent huge amounts of money to get affected sikhs and hindus from all over Pakistan to be relocated to Hassanabdal where the govt along with various Pakistani Sikh NGOs(Working on Pakistani donations) catered to the sikhs needs until they were fit to go back home.


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## 53fd

Kinetic said:


> If the minorities in India is bad than there is no minorities all over the world, I do not even mention Pakistan *which have state law against religious freedom.*


 
FALSE!!! Quoted directly from the Pakistani constitution:



> 20.	*Freedom to profess religion and to manage religious institutions*.
> Subject to law, public order and morality:-
> (a)	*every citizen shall have the right to profess, practise and propagate his religion;* and
> (b)	*every religious denomination and every sect thereof shall have the right to establish, maintain and manage its religious institutions*.
> 
> 21.	*Safeguard against taxation for purposes of any particular religion*.
> No person shall be compelled to pay any special tax the proceeds of which are to be spent on the propagation or maintenance of any religion other than his own.
> 
> 22.	*Safeguards as to educational institutions in respect of religion, etc*.
> (1) *No person attending any educational institution shall be required to receive religious instruction*, or take part in any religious ceremony, or attend religious worship, if such instruction, ceremony or worship relates to a religion other than his own.
> (2) *In respect of any religious institution, there shall be no discrimination against any community in the granting of exemption or concession in relation to taxation.*
> (3)	* Subject to law:*
> (a)	no religious community or denomination shall be prevented from providing religious instruction for pupils of that community or denomination in any educational institution maintained wholly by that community or denomination; and
> (b) *no citizen shall be denied admission to any educational institution receiving aid from public revenues on the ground only of race, religion, caste or place of birth*.
> 
> 25.	Equality of citizens.
> (1) *All citizens are equal before law and are entitled to equal protection of law*.
> 
> 26.	*Non-discrimination in respect of access to public places*.
> (1) In respect of access to places of public entertainment or resort not intended for religious purposes only, *there shall be no discrimination against any citizen on the ground only of race, religion, caste, sex, residence or place of birth*.
> 
> 27.	*Safeguard against discrimination in services.*
> (1) *No citizen otherwise qualified for appointment in the service of Pakistan shall be discriminated against in respect of any such appointment on the ground only of race, religion, caste, sex, residence or place of birth.*



[Chapter 1: Fundamental Rights] of [Part II: Fundamental Rights and Principles of Policy]

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## macho ki macho

84 happened due to instigating factor of Indira gandhi assasination. Gujrat happened due to godhra train burning as an instigating factor. 
Its not like an ongoing process like what you people think it to be. Muslims in India are way way more safe and secure than a shiate muslim or an ahmedi muslim in pakistan. And its a fact


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## harshad

dont teach india secularism it has successfully stayed the way it is for more than 60 years with so much diversity not only in religion but language and culture


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## Icarus

StingRoy said:


> I agree to you point and similarly I can claim that there is no state sponsored terrorism against the Sikhs in India today. The unfortunate events that led to 84 need to be considered before making a judgement. I needn't say more on this issue.
> 
> 
> Find me a sikh in India who feels persecuted by the policies of the Indian govt.


 
I agree, I hate it when people try to bring back the 80s and if you read my posts I tried to avoid doing that. The only reason I jumped into the discussion as mentioned before is because I could not sit by and see all this Pakistan bashing.........


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## KS

bilalhaider said:


> They are more than welcome to be part of Pakistani Punjab sure
> 
> Most of India's fertile land will be gone, & there are already too many farmers that commit suicide in other parts of India every year.


 
Lol lol lol.

We have enough arable land all along the Ganges and our rice granaries are down south in the Krishna-Godavari and Kaveri deltas.

Worry about Pakistan once your part of Punjab goes to Khalistan.



bilalhaider said:


> Think you better take care of Jammu & Kashmir before we start thinking about Balochistan.
> 
> These are the separatist movements against the Indian state in J&K:
> 
> 1. Lashkar-e-Omar (LeO)
> 2. Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM)
> 3. Harkat-ul-Ansar (HuA, presently known as Harkat-ul Mujahideen)
> 4. Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT)
> 5. Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM)
> 6. Harkat-ul Mujahideen (HuM, previously known as Harkat-ul-Ansar)
> 7. Al Badr
> 8. Jamait-ul-Mujahideen (JuM)
> 9. Lashkar-e-Jabbar (LeJ)
> 10. Harkat-ul-Jehad-i-Islami
> 11. Al Barq
> 12. Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen
> 13. Al Jehad
> 14. Jammu & Kashir National Liberation Army
> 15. People&#8217;s League
> 16. Muslim Janbaz Force
> 17. Kashmir Jehad Force
> 18. Al Jehad Force (combines Muslim Janbaz Force and Kashmir Jehad Force)
> 19. Al Umar Mujahideen
> 20. Mahaz-e-Azadi
> 21. Islami Jamaat-e-Tulba
> 22. Jammu & Kashmir Students Liberation Front
> 23. Ikhwan-ul-Mujahideen
> 24. Islamic Students League
> 25. Tehrik-e-Hurriat-e-Kashmir
> 26. Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqar Jafaria
> 27. Al Mustafa Liberation Fighters
> 28. Tehrik-e-Jehad-e-Islami
> 29. Muslim Mujahideen
> 30. Al Mujahid Force
> 31. Tehrik-e-Jehad
> 32. Islami Inquilabi Mahaz
> 33. Mutahida Jehad Council (MJC)
> 34. Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF)
> 35. All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC)
> 36. Dukhtaran-e-Millat (DeM)
> 
> These are the separatist movements inside Balochistan:
> 
> 1. Balochistan Liberation Front
> 2. Balochistan Liberation Army


 
These two are doing a heck of a job compared to the 3 dozen of those impotent Kashmiri/Pakistani Punjabi outfits.

Got to give credit to those tough Balochis.

And after Pak Punjab goes to Khalistan immediately two different stans will be formed one starting with pash*** and another with Bal*****.

What will be left - only Sindh and they are already at each other's throats along Pathan-Muhajir-Sindhi ethnic lines.

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## DEMI GOD

Kakgeta said:


> Absolutely incorrect ! The govt spent huge amounts of money to get affected sikhs and hindus from all over Pakistan to be relocated to Hassanabdal where the govt along with various Pakistani Sikh NGOs(Working on Pakistani donations) catered to the sikhs needs until they were fit to go back home.


 

i hope this will help u .if u need more i can give u some more links
http://www.umeed.ewebsite.com/articles/post-flood-visit.html (written by a pakistan person)


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## macho ki macho

Sikhs are the worlds best community in the world. Great amount of socil service they do.

Their identity is based on foundation of sanathan dharma ( Hindusim), same case with Jains and buddhists.

All the sardarjis I have met are very courteous, warm hearted and simple people with good integrity.


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## Icarus

macho ki macho said:


> India is a very very open society. You just have to put down your fanatic islamic lenses and look with your open eyes.
> 
> Seriously mate, At least come to India and see how it works. Dont believe all the propagandu material that is taught to you in madarassa.


 
Profanity and swearing is explicitly forbidden on this forum. Post reported.


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## StingRoy

bilalhaider said:


> FALSE!!! Quoted directly from the Pakistani constitution:
> 
> [Chapter 1: Fundamental Rights] of [Part II: Fundamental Rights and Principles of Policy]



Leave aside the effort of quoting from your so called constitution... we know how many dictators have trampled on it.

Read an analysis of the persecution of the Ahmadiya Community published Harvard Human Rights Journal... and these people are Muslims, not any other religion.

Persecution of the Ahmadiyya Community in Pakistan: An Analysis Under International Law and International Relations


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## SR 71 Blackbird

Khalistan no longer possible as their leader's phone are tapped & they are under constant IB surviellance.


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## Icarus

macho ki macho said:


> 84 happened due to instigating factor of Indira gandhi assasination. Gujrat happened due to godhra train burning as an instigating factor.
> Its not like an ongoing process like what you people think it to be. Muslims in India are way way more safe and secure than a shiate muslim or an ahmedi muslim in pakistan. And its a fact


 
Figures ? If by this you are pointing towards the Taliban then obviously you have not been following this discussion very closely.


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## 53fd

StingRoy said:


> Leave aside the effort of quoting from your so called constitution... we know how many dictators have trampled on it.
> 
> Read an analysis of the persecution of the Ahmadiya Community published Harvard Human Rights Journal... and these people are Muslims, not any other religion.
> 
> Persecution of the Ahmadiyya Community in Pakistan: An Analysis Under International Law and International Relations


 
Can you explain to me as to what basis they are they Muslims? This is what your Dar Uloom Deoband, in Deoband UP India says about Ahmadis on their website:



> (Fatwa 332=307/N)
> 
> The Mirzais (Qadyanis, Ahmadiyas) are kafir. This issue is agreed upon by the Muslim Ummah.
> 
> These books may be useful: (1) Radd-e-Qadyaniat ke Zarrin Usool (2) Suboot Hazir Hain (3) Muhazarat of Darul Uloom on Qadyanism
> 
> Allah (Subhana Wa Ta'ala) knows Best
> 
> Darul Ifta,
> Darul Uloom Deoband



http://darulifta-deoband.org/showuserview.do?function=answerView&all=en&id=519


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## KS

bilalhaider said:


> Kashmir 101: Decoding Kashmir's conflict - What do Kashmiris want now? - CSMonitor.com
> 
> Most Kashmiris want independence, India imposes curfew | Asia-Pasific | World Bulletin



Well within our control.









bilalhaider said:


> I realize certain Dalits have done well in India. The Chief Minister of UP is a Dalit. However, the issue of untouchability still remains to a large extent, despite the certain upliftment improvements they have made in their status. *But the concessions made to the Dalits applies only to those that remain Hindu.*


 

Because Islam and Christianity brag that they don't have castes. Simple. Or do they ?

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## macho ki macho

Kakgeta said:


> Figures ? If by this you are pointing towards the Taliban then obviously you have not been following this discussion very closely.


 

TTP Talibanis are 1) Muslims 2) Pakistan nationals 3) Killers of impurer breed of muslims (Ahmedis/Sufis/Shiates)

Can you disagree birather?

Take on India on other hand, no one is seggregating impurer muslims form pure ones, or minorities from majority and killing them. What ever deatsh have happened due to pakistani sponsored terrorist attacks, the dying person was Indian and that includes, Hindus, muslims, sikhs and christains. Everyone. No wonder ghazi qadri types fanatics and sehzad faisal types are produced in pureland only. 

You are comparing apples and oranges here.


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## Black Widow

Kakgeta said:


> There is no torture or murder going on in Balochistan. Infact, the military does not patrol any city of Balochistan other than Sui.
> This false information is only spread by the BLA to help garner support for their cause. However, throwing a grenade into someone's house or killing a pedestrian hardly makes an organized resistance.


 
;I will suggest you to see threads on balochistan...  ... your propaganda against india is not going to work...


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## Icarus

DEMI GOD said:


> i hope this will help u .if u need more i can give u some more links
> http://www.umeed.ewebsite.com/articles/post-flood-visit.html (written by a pakistan person)


 
Here's one for you:
Displaced groups find small refuge in Pakistan | Demotix.com

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## Ajaxpaul

People are bringing up issues which are more than 15 to 20 years old. The OP gets immense mental satisfaction seeing members of both pakistan and india fight against each other. This is called waste of time in true meaning!!


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## SR 71 Blackbird

In 1980's some people thought of themselves as Sikhs & misinterpreted Guru Govind Singh's teachings,so they had to pay their price.


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## DEMI GOD

Kakgeta said:


> Here's one for you:
> Displaced groups find small refuge in Pakistan | Demotix.com


 
Over 2000 people have died and crops worth over a billion dollars were destroyed. About 150 displaced Sikhs and Hindus have taken shelter at Gurdwara Panja Sahib in Hasanabdal and Gurdwara Dera Sahib in Lahore while 100 more are sheltering at Gurdwara Janamasthan in Nankana Sahib.

just a point government providing shelter to them,i think they are already in shelters in gurdwaras (so u can see a lie in that)


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## Icarus

macho ki macho said:


> TTP Talibanis are 1) Muslims 2) Pakistan nationals 3) Killers of impurer breed of muslims (Ahmedis/Sufis/Shiates)
> 
> Can you disagree birather?


 
Taliban are mostly Pakistanis, yes they are muslims and yes they do kill other people but they don't just kill the stated groups. Their largest kill figures are of sunni muslims. Secondly, they DO NOT represent Pakistan infact, they denounce it in favour of a single Islamic state comprising of the whole world.


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## 53fd

macho ki macho said:


> TTP Talibanis are 1) Muslims 2) Pakistan nationals 3) Killers of impurer breed of muslims (Ahmedis/Sufis/Shiates)



They are takfiris, and are being killed by the Pakistani Army through the full support of the people, because the TTP are terrorist scums.



> Take on India on other hand, no one is seggregating impurer muslims form pure ones,



But you segregate 'purer' Hindus from the 'impurer'/untouchable Hindus in public places.



> or minorities from majority and killing them.



I guess the 1984 attacks, Bhagalpur, Ayodhya, Gujarat, Orissa & many others are a figment of my imagination.


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## StingRoy

bilalhaider said:


> Can you explain to me as to what basis they are they Muslims?


 
Maybe in some other thread, but lets just stick to the topic now. Lets say I consider them to be non-muslims, then how do you justify the persecution?


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## Icarus

macho ki macho said:


> TTP Talibanis are 1) Muslims 2) Pakistan nationals 3) Killers of impurer breed of muslims (Ahmedis/Sufis/Shiates)
> 
> Can you disagree birather?
> 
> Take on India on other hand, no one is seggregating impurer muslims form pure ones, or minorities from majority and killing them. What ever deatsh have happened due to pakistani sponsored terrorist attacks, the dying person was Indian and that includes, Hindus, muslims, sikhs and christains. Everyone. No wonder ghazi qadri types fanatics and sehzad faisal types are produced in pureland only.
> 
> You are comparing apples and oranges here.



Infact, India is the country with the largest number of active insurgencies.........................and there is no state sponsored attack on minorities today. Half a decade ago is a different story......


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## 53fd

StingRoy said:


> Maybe in some other thread, but lets just stick to the topic now. Lets say I consider them to be non-muslims, then how do you justify the persecution?


 
Did I ever justify their persecution? There have been Ahmedis in many senior positions in the Army, government as well as in many other places too, & continue to do so.


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## DEMI GOD

Kakgeta said:


> Taliban are mostly Pakistanis, yes they are muslims and yes they do kill other people but they don't just kill the stated groups. Their largest kill figures are of sunni muslims. Secondly, they DO NOT represent Pakistan infact, they denounce it in favour of a single Islamic state comprising of the whole world.




the point here is if u guys cant stop taliban killing innocent lifes of ur people why are u sticking ur news in 3 decades old indian topic....
i think uunderstand wt i mean so better we leave this topic rather than fighting on useless things


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## Laughing_soldier

Kinetic said:


> ^^^Most of the Sikh empire was in Pakistan. Googled and got this is the Sikh Empire.........


 
*Welcome to Lahore, Kahlistan.
Maharaja Manmohan Singh. *

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## DEMI GOD

Laughing_soldier said:


> *Welcome to Lahore, Kahlistan.
> Maharaja Manmohan Singh. *


 
lolz like this one

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## Icarus

DEMI GOD said:


> Over 2000 people have died and crops worth over a billion dollars were destroyed. About 150 displaced Sikhs and Hindus have taken shelter at Gurdwara Panja Sahib in Hasanabdal and Gurdwara Dera Sahib in Lahore while 100 more are sheltering at Gurdwara Janamasthan in Nankana Sahib.
> 
> just a point government providing shelter to them,i think they are already in shelters in gurdwaras (so u can see a lie in that)


 
The Gurdwara is a building, you need food and clothing as well which is being provided by the govt. And what can I do if only this many sikhs were affected, I can't tear down their houses and send them to gurdwaras to increase the figure for you, can I ?

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## 53fd

DEMI GOD said:


> the point here is if u guys cant stop taliban killing innocent lifes of ur people why are u sticking ur news in 3 decades old indian topic....
> i think uunderstand wt i mean so better we leave this topic rather than fighting on useless things


 
The Pakistani state doesn't kill minorities like you killed the Sikhs in 1994 or Gujarati Muslims in 2002. There lies your difference. There are also far less mob attacks against minorities in Pakistan in comparison to India.


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## Icarus

DEMI GOD said:


> the point here is if u guys cant stop taliban killing innocent lifes of ur people why are u sticking ur news in 3 decades old indian topic....
> i think uunderstand wt i mean so better we leave this topic rather than fighting on useless things


 
I shall leave when the Pakistan bashing stops.........It's a pity I can't find a mod online or I would gladly have this thread closed. I'm not having the time of my life either.......


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## macho ki macho

This thread is really getting boring. Discussings things that dont exist. yawn yawn. I am off


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## Laughing_soldier

red_baron said:


> their empire might have existed in Pakistani punjab but they originated from indian punjab and thats their real homeland and the real khalsa how can sikhs forget operation shudi karan 1984 (raping sikh women) that was aimed at altering sikh genetics ??


How to altering genetics?

Violence against women

Numerous women were tortured, raped and killed during the war.[44] Again, exact numbers are not known and are a subject of debate. Bangladeshi sources cite a figure of 200,000 women raped, giving birth to thousands of war-babies. The Pakistan Army also kept numerous Bengali women as sex-slaves inside the Dhaka Cantonment. Most of the girls were captured from Dhaka University and private homes.[9]

Among other sources, Susan Brownmiller refers to an even higher number of over 400,000. Pakistani sources claim the number is much lower, though having not completely denied rape incidents.[45][46][47] Brownmiller quotes:[48]

Khadiga, thirteen years old, was interviewed by a photojournalist in Dacca. She was walking to school with four other girls when they were kidnapped by a gang of Pakistani soldiers. All five were put in a military brothel in Mohammedpur and held captive for six months until the end of the war.

The licentious attitude of the soldiers, although generally supported by the superiors, alarmed the regional high command of Pakistan army. On April 15, 1971, in a secret memorandum to the divisional commanders, Niazi complained,
&#8220; Since my arrival, I have heard numerous reports of troops indulging in loot and arson, killing people at random and without reasons in areas cleared of the anti state elements; of late there have been reports of rape and even the West Pakistanis are not being spared; on 12 April two West Pakistani women were raped, and an attempt was made on two others.[49] &#8221;

Another work that has included direct experiences from the women raped is Ami Birangona Bolchhi ("I, the heroine, speak") by Nilima Ibrahim. The work includes in its name from the word Birangona (Heroine), given by Sheikh Mujibur Rahman after the war, to the raped and tortured women during the war. This was a conscious effort to alleviate any social stigma the women might face in the society. How successful this effort was is doubtful, though. In October 2005 Sarmila Bose (a Boston, Massachusetts born Harvard-educated Bengali Indian academic), published a paper suggesting that the casualties and rape allegations in the war have been greatly exaggerated for political purposes.[50][51] This work has been criticised in Bangladesh and her research methods have been attacked by expatriate Bengalis as shoddy and biased because of the work's heavy reliance on Pakistani sources and for discrediting victims' testimonies based on their lack of formal education.[52]
Violence against minorities

1971 Bangladesh atrocities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Ajaxpaul

why is everyone discussing taliban here. If there is nothing to be discussed regarding Khalistan, then Plz close the thread MODS...oops i think they are not here. carry on boys


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## Laughing_soldier

These guys could not forget humiliations by the Indian Sikhs in various wars. Specially this. 

Look at this Sikh.


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## Icarus

This discussion is fruitless. You people are so confused over what you are saying that none of your posts are making sense. Honestly, people like you have turned such a wonderful forum into a free for all bashing zone................Pakistanis and Indian members got along fine when I joined in back in 09.

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## KS

Abingdonboy said:


> Any sources? Forgive my ignorance but how can someone be a Hindu nationalist and in favour of the Sikhs? A paradox surely? And Sikhs are NOT Hindus, look them up they have very different ideologies.


 
There is nothing called Hindu nationalist IMO though It can be a Dharmic nationalist.

And most of the Hindus view all the four Hindus,Sikhs,Buddists and Jains as part of the Dharmic/Indic culture as different from the Semitic/Abrahamic culture. *This is NOT to say one religion is superior to another in India but purely from a cultural perspective.* And Hindus remember the Sikh Gurus who have fought side by side with them against the tyrannical Mughals and again they fought side by side in 1947.

Also the level of integration,inter-marriages between the Hindus and Sikhs is very high as much as I have seen which is obviously lacking between Hindu-Muslim or Hindu-Christian.

I myself have seen many many Sikhs praying in Mandirs and I have been to Gurudwaras. 

Again let me clarify Hindus and Sikhs are distinct religions but the level of integration is very close and is rivaled only by that between Hindu-Jain.

I hope this answers your question.


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## 53fd

Kinetic said:


> What you can post far far worse? Massacre of 200000 Hindus in 1971? Blasphemy law?



You forget that most of those massacres were committed by the Mukti Bahini that India supported  



> Same BS, I am talking about post 1947.



Post 1947, Pakistan had Bangladesh as East Pakistan that had most of Pakistan's non-Muslim population. When Bangladesh separated from Pakistan in 1971, Pakistan's minorities % also went down. 



> What? Is this an argument here for increased minority in India and decreased in Pakistan?



Yes, the majority of the non-Muslim population was in Bangladesh, which separated from Pakistan in 1971. There was no such thing in India, & due to the high birth rates in Muslim families, the Muslim population in India grew over time. 



> You wanna compare majority with minority?



You forget that India has 7 times the total population of Pakistan, & hence there will be a bigger influence of Indian minorities in India than Pakistani minorities in Pakistan. Case in point being the similar population of 13.2% Indian Muslims & 95% Pakistani Muslims.



> Let compare. How many Muslims killed in Pakistan since 1947 and how many in India. You cannot compare that because alone in Bangladesh too many you killed. So better see where you are.



You forget that the majority of Kashmiris you've been killing since 1947 all the way till today have been Muslims  



> Why you said proudly that Pakistan took 45% of Kashmir?



Because you and your government say that Kashmir is an integral part of India. Period.



> When you support khalistan you did not say what baout Lahore being capital of it? When most of the Sikh lands are in Pakistan punjab now. [/B]


 
No Khalistani has ever said they want part of Pakistan to be in Khalistan, it's only Indian Hindus like you that say that .


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## DEMI GOD

Kakgeta said:


> This discussion is fruitless. You people are so confused over what you are saying that none of your posts are making sense. Honestly, people like you have turned such a wonderful forum into a free for all bashing zone................Pakistanis and Indian members got along fine when I joined in back in 09.


 

See dude u stop we stop ,u wanna continue u will keep geeting it from us .so better put a brake


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## Laughing_soldier

red_baron said:


> interesting how indians are playing with sentiments of sikhs after all this



Sikh always represented India. So you are wrong. See

A Sikh from India


----------



## DEMI GOD

Kakgeta said:


> I shall leave when the Pakistan bashing stops.........It's a pity I can't find a mod online or I would gladly have this thread closed. I'm not having the time of my life either.......


 
there is no pakistan bashing ,but instead u guys are try to involve urself in a dead topic of khalisthan(which was indian topic).....


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## Laughing_soldier

Another Sikh who alone won a war!


----------



## DEMI GOD

No Khalistani has ever said they want part of Pakistan to be in Khalistan, it's only Indian Hindus like you that say that .[/QUOTE]

,See punjab kingdom under maharaja ranjit singh ,60% of pakistan belong to it ,punjab kingdom


----------



## Laughing_soldier

Singh is King


----------



## Manas

*There is no Khalistan(empty place) in india, everywhere you see slums taking over.
So they try luck outside of India, may be in Canada.*


----------



## Manas

bilalhaider said:


> *The Pakistani state doesn't kill minorities* like you killed the Sikhs in 1994 or Gujarati Muslims in 2002. There lies your difference. There are also far less mob attacks against minorities in Pakistan in comparison to India.



One word,*"East Pakistan"* saw mother of all killings.


----------



## DEMI GOD

Kakgeta said:


> The Gurdwara is a building, you need food and clothing as well which is being provided by the govt. And what can I do if only this many sikhs were affected, I can't tear down their houses and send them to gurdwaras to increase the figure for you, can I ?


 

Langar (Sikhism) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
see this from where those families get food
i think u dont know nothing about sikhism and still making useless comments


----------



## Laughing_soldier

*Sher-e-Punjab *











*Subedar Joginder Singh* was the commander of a platoon of the Sikh Regiment holding a defensive position at a ridge near Tongpen La in NEFA. At 0530 hours on 23 October 1962, the Chinese opened a very heavy attack on the Bumla axis with the intention of breaking through to Towang. The leading battalion of the enemy attacked the ridge in three waves, each about 200 strong. Subedar Joginder Singh and his men mowed down the first wave, and the enemy was temporarily halted by the heavy losses it suffered. Within a few minutes, a second wave came over and was dealt with similarly. But the platoon had, by then, lost half its men. Subedar Joginder Singh was wounded in the thigh but refused to be evacuated. Under his inspiring leadership the platoon stubbornly held its ground and would not withdraw. Meanwhile the position was attacked for the third time. Subedar Joginder Singh himself manned a light machine-gun and shot down a number of the enemy. The Chinese however continued to advance despite heavy losses. When the situation became untenable Subedar Joginder Singh and the few men that were left in the position fixed bayonets and charged the advancing Chinese, bayoneting a number of them before he and his comrades were overpowered. Throughout this action, Subedar joginder Singh displayed devotion to duty, inspiring leadership and bravery of the highest order. 






LANCE NAIK KARAM SINGH
1 SIKH (NO-22356)

Tithwal in Jammu and Kashmir was captured on 23 May 1948. After that date, the enemy made numerous attempts to recapture Richmar Gali, and thence Tithwal. On 13 October 1948, coinciding with Id, the enemy decided to launch a brigade attack to retake Richmar Gali, and bypassing Tithwal, advance into the Srinagar Valley . Lance Naik Karam Singh was commanding a section at Richmar Gali.
The enemy commenced its attack with heavy shelling of guns and mortars. The fire was so accurate that not a single bunker in the platoon locality was left unscathed.
Communication trenches caved in. Bravely, Lance Naik karam Singh went from bunker to bunker, giving succor to the wounded and urging the men to fight.
The enemy launched eight separate attacks that day. In one such attack, the enemy managed to obtain a foothold in the platoon locality. Immediately, Lance Naik Karam Singh, who was severely wounded by then, with a few men, hurled himself in a counter-attack and evicted the enemy after a close quarter encounter which accounted for many enemy dead, having been dispatched by the bayonet.
Lance Naik Karam Singh proved himself to be a dauntless leader of men in crisis. Nothing could subdue him and no amount of fire or hardship could break his spirit.


----------



## DEMI GOD

bilalhaider said:


> The Pakistani state doesn't kill minorities like you killed the Sikhs in 1994 or Gujarati Muslims in 2002. There lies your difference. There are also far less mob attacks against minorities in Pakistan in comparison to India.


 
ask GOP which sended mr tikka khan to bangladesh

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## notsuperstitious

bilalhaider said:


> The Pakistani state doesn't kill minorities like you killed the Sikhs in 1994 or Gujarati Muslims in 2002. There lies your difference. There are also far less mob attacks against minorities in Pakistan in comparison to India.



You need a minority to kill.

When Pakistani state had that luxury, they did splendidly in 1971. Many times more what India managed over the last 60 years.

After all, you are not bound by an inefficient bureaucracy like us

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## Laughing_soldier

bilalhaider said:


> The *Pakistani state doesn't kill minorities* like you killed the Sikhs in 1994 or Gujarati Muslims in 2002. There lies your difference. There are also far less mob attacks against minorities in Pakistan in comparison to India.


 
1983 and 2002 were riots not like this 

*
The minorities of Bangladesh, especially the Hindus, were specific targets of the Pakistan army.[10][34] There was widespread killing of Hindu males, and rapes of women. More than 60% of the Bengali refugees who fled to India were Hindus.[53] It is not exactly known what percentage of the people killed by the Pakistan army were Hindus, but it is safe to say it was disproportionately high.[54] This widespread violence against Hindus was motivated by a policy to purge East Pakistan of what was seen as Hindu and Indian influences. The West Pakistani rulers identified the Bengali culture with Hindu and Indian culture, and thought that the eradication of Hindus would remove such influences from the majority Muslims in East Pakistan.[55]

R.J. Rummel has stated states that

The genocide and gendercidal atrocities were also perpetrated by lower-ranking officers and ordinary soldiers. These willing executioners were fueled by an abiding anti-Bengali racism, especially against the Hindu minority. Bengalis were often compared with monkeys and chickens. Said General Niazi, It was a low lying land of low lying people. The Hindus among the Bengalis were as Jews to the Nazis: scum and vermin that [should] best be exterminated. As to the Moslem Bengalis, they were to live only on the sufferance of the soldiers: any infraction, any suspicion cast on them, any need for reprisal, could mean their death. And the soldiers were free to kill at will. The journalist Dan Coggin quoted one Punjabi captain as telling him, "We can kill anyone for anything. We are accountable to no one." This is the arrogance of Power.
R.J. Rummel, Death by Government[56]*

1971 Bangladesh atrocities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## notsuperstitious

I'm glad the Khalistani Patriot decided to change his profile picture from Moin Akhtar to a Sikh.

Diligence sir, is critical. The last time he was not careful and got banned three days ago 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members/38826khalistan_zindabad.html

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## KS

Kakgeta said:


> This discussion is fruitless. You people are so confused over what you are saying that none of your posts are making sense. Honestly, people like you have turned such a wonderful forum into a free for all bashing zone................Pakistanis and Indian members got along fine when I joined in back in 09.


 
Since you seem to talk sense, tell me honestly -- do you think Sikhs in *India* (not those in Canada) want to secede from India ?

Just tell that and the purpose of this thread will be over.



Kakgeta said:


> *There is no torture or murder going on in Balochistan.* Infact, the military does not patrol any city of Balochistan other than Sui.
> This false information is only spread by the BLA to help garner support for their cause. However, throwing a grenade into someone's house or killing a pedestrian hardly makes an organized resistance.


 
http://tribune.com.pk/story/123124/baloch-missing-persons-mutilated-bodies-of-political-workers-found/

http://www.dawn.com/2011/03/31/jamaat-condemns-illegal-arrests-killings-in-balochistan.html

http://tribune.com.pk/story/155589/law-and-order-the-contours-of-target-killings-in-balochistan/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/29/balochistan-pakistans-secret-dirty-war

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Pak-security-agencies-behind-killings-in-balochistan-pmln/754745/



bilalhaider said:


> Stop trolling. If I start quoting you latest news reports from Indian newspapers, you won't be liking it.


 
Do that. I'll return the favour from Pak newspapers

Lets compare.

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## notsuperstitious

I'm glad the Khalistani Patriot decided to change his profile picture from Moin Akhtar to a Sikh.

Diligence sir, is critical. The last time he was not careful and got banned three days ago 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members..._zindabad.html

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## Laughing_soldier

fateh71 said:


> I'm glad the Khalistani Patriot decided to change his profile picture from Moin Akhtar to a Sikh.
> 
> Diligence sir, is critical. The last time he was not careful and got banned three days ago
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/members/38826khalistan_zindabad.html


 
I suspected this. Some people could not forget humiliations by Sikhs in many wars.  

I am honored Sikh.

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## Laughing_soldier

bilalhaider said:


> No Khalistani has ever said they want part of Pakistan to be in Khalistan, it's only Indian Hindus like you that say that .


 
70% of Sikh empire is in Punjab, Pakistan, I am a Sikh telling you this Pakistani Muslim!


----------



## Laughing_soldier

red_baron said:


> he is not a false flagger but a victim...why do u want to surpress his voice?


 
 A Pakistani supporter of Khalistan! Do you know what will happen to you if there is a khalistan?

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## Laughing_soldier

Truth Teller said:


> this is totally off topic.


 
Can not face the truth?


----------



## 53fd

fateh71 said:


> You need a minority to kill.
> 
> *When Pakistani state had that luxury, they did splendidly in 1971*. Many times more what India managed over the last 60 years.
> 
> After all, you are not bound by an inefficient bureaucracy like us


 
It was the Mukti Bahini that you (India) trained that killed 200,000 Pakistani Hindus in 1971, & 1 million Biharis in Bangladesh:

Mukti Bahani massacres of Biharis in Panchabibi, Jessore « Bogra « Rajshahi « Sonar Bangla « Bangladesh Patriot


----------



## Laughing_soldier

red_baron said:


> lol millions and millions...and there are still 1.3 billion in the world...how many billions and billions were you?


 
So you are justifying millions of Muslims you killed? Horrific.


----------



## KS

bilalhaider said:


> Mukti Bahani massacres of Biharis in Panchabibi, Jessore « Bogra « Rajshahi « Sonar Bangla « Bangladesh Patriot


 
Lol lol lol -- A Razakar blog given as a source.

Here is the famous* Blood Telegram* sent by the US Embassy in Dacca about the atrocities perperated by the West Pak army on the Bangalis.




> _Our government has failed to denounce the suppression of democracy. Our government has failed to denounce atrocities. Our government has failed to take forceful measures to protect its citizens while at the same time bending over backwards to placate the West Pak[istan] dominated government and to lessen any deservedly negative international public relations impact against them. Our government has evidenced what many will consider moral bankruptcy,(...) But we have chosen not to intervene, even morally, on the grounds that the Awami conflict, in which unfortunately the overworked term *genocide is applicable*, is purely an internal matter of a sovereign state. Private Americans have expressed disgust. We, as professional civil servants, express our dissent with current policy and fervently hope that our true and lasting interests here can be defined and our policies redirected._












[/IMG]




[/IMG]

Link

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## 53fd

tallboy123 said:


> wat is MALLU ?"????? some type of p**n word?


 
These are mallus in India:

deleted youtube link.


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## SpArK

bilalhaider said:


> These are mallus in India:


 

The forum is getting turned to a **** site by few.. what next mujra videos???... 

I wonder why Mods arent concerned on the deterioration of quality of discussions due to a few ???

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## Bhim

Jab tak inhe poora insaaf nahi milega, tab tak ye chingari to bhedkegi...

And it was the Congress leaders who with their gangs did this all, what protests are all about is to get justice.

But traitors will not be tolerated, as they were the ones to create the mess in the first place, by the indoctrination they received ffom our loving neighbor.

This person is a fake flag, if he has impersonated himself as an Indian or sneaks into India, then he is a big security threat.


----------



## Prometheus

bilalhaider said:


> Y
> 
> 
> 
> No Khalistani has ever said they want part of Pakistan to be in Khalistan, it's only Indian Hindus like you that say that .



you see I am going to be President of Khalistan........................So when is pakistan going to give my capital back


----------



## notsuperstitious

I'm glad the Khalistani Patriot decided to change his profile picture from Moin Akhtar to a Sikh.

Diligence sir, is critical. The last time he was not careful and got banned three days ago 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/members..._zindabad.html


----------



## Bhim

bilalhaider said:


> These are mallus in India:
> 
> 
> 
> How about Heera Mandi..yaha Maal hi Maal hai....


----------



## Prometheus

Laughing_soldier said:


> A Pakistani supporter of Khalistan! Do you know what will happen to you if there is a khalistan?


 
Pakistan is going to loose to half of Pakistan


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## SpArK

^^^^^

Come one dude. You dont need to stoop to his level to counter.Delete the video.


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## 53fd

SpArK said:


> The forum is getting turned to a **** site by few.. what next mujra videos???...
> 
> I wonder why Mods arent concerned on the deterioration of quality of discussions due to a few ???


 
It's not a **** video my friend, I found the most decent mallu video I could find & I posted it here. It doesn't have any explicit scenes in it. An Indian asked me what a mallu was, & I described it to him.


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## 53fd

Bhim said:


> bilalhaider said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are mallus in India:
> 
> 
> 
> How about Heera Mandi..yaha Maal hi Maal hai....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a difference between South Indian mallu videos & Heera Mandi videos. That was the most decent mallu video I could find, you can find all sorts of South Indian mallu videos on youtube.
Click to expand...


----------



## SpArK

bilalhaider said:


> It's not a **** video my friend, I found the most decent mallu video & posted it here. An Indian asked me what a mallu was, & I described it to him.


 
Sorry failed to notice , *that in certain hours of the wednesdays* you get into *decent mode* and start explaining whatever quaries Indians put on this forum.. My apologies.

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## Swati Shukla

IndianArmy said:


> Yeah, Mallus are everywhere, So are the Sikh Community.... In the Indian Army, There is no morale Lifting battle cry than * "Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh"* Sikh Regiment and *"Jai Maha Kali, Ayo Gorkha Li"* from the Gorkha Regiment, Morale Starts Oozing out of you...


 
And of jat regiment it is- JAT BALWAAN, JAI BHAGWAAN. i love it when gorkhas greet each other with TAGRA RAHO.


----------



## 53fd

jha said:


> Dont know about other points, But Bihar and Haryana will surely fight with UP if it decides to claim this honor ..?
> we bihari are equally abusive ...


 
jha bhaiyaa tuu kahan se hauva? Hamaar gaon Khujwa ba, Siwan district mein.


----------



## 53fd

SpArK said:


> Sorry failed to notice , *that in certain hours of the wednesdays* you get into *decent mode* and start explaining whatever quaries Indians put on this forum.. My apologies.


 
Apology accepted


----------



## SpArK

bilalhaider said:


> Apology accepted


 
 ok ok...and stop searching mallu videos.

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## Marwari

bilalhaider said:


> It's not a **** video my friend, I found the most decent mallu video I could find & I posted it here. It doesn't have any explicit scenes in it. An Indian asked me what a mallu was, & I described it to him.


 
I can post some decent mujra videos..


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## 53fd

SpArK said:


> ok ok...and stop searching mallu videos.


 
I hope you realize I don't hate any of you guys, I just like ruffling your feathers & like it when you ruffle mine. Little bit of skirmishes from both sides is acceptable , & I'm sorry if I've ever come off as abrasive or anything, this is all in good spirit on my part. So cheers bhaiyya. Take care.


----------



## Ajaxpaul

SpArK said:


> ok ok...and stop searching mallu videos.


 
Mallu videos are world famous, cannot blame him

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## Swati Shukla

Abingdonboy said:


> Sikhs are a feircly loyal people, India is their home, they will defende it to their last breath:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does seem though that there are some elements in India who dislike the Sikhs for whatever reason.


 
There is a common saying in army that THE BEST LIVING HINDUS ARE SIKHS.


----------



## 53fd

Marwari said:


> I can post some decent mujra videos..


 
If you want to get banned, sure. Go ahead my friend. If you actually watched that youtube video I posted, it didn't have anything explicit in it. But you are free to do so, I won't be posting any explicit mallu videos here as that would surely get me banned


----------



## Marwari

bilalhaider said:


> I hope you realize I don't hate any of you guys, *I just like ruffling your feathers & like it when you ruffle mine.* Little bit from skirmishes from both sides is acceptable , & I'm sorry if I've ever come off as abrasive or anything, this is all in good spirit on my part. So cheers bhaiyya. Take care.


 
 jk 

---------- Post added at 12:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 PM ----------




bilalhaider said:


> If you want to get banned, sure my friend. If you actually watched that youtube video I posted, it didn't have anything explicit in it. But you are free to do so, I won't be posting any explicit mallu videos here as that would surely get me banned


 
Nah they aren't explicit nonetheless pretty entertaining


----------



## Marwari

Swati Shukla said:


> And of jat regiment it is- JAT BALWAAN, JAI BHAGWAAN. i love it when gorkhas greet each other with TAGRA RAHO.


 
And the regiment my family has been in RAJPUTANA RIFLES.... RAJA RAM CHANDRA KI JAI


----------



## AvidSpice

Karthic Sri said:


> Since you seem to talk sense, tell me honestly -- do you think Sikhs in *India* (not those in Canada) want to secede from India ?
> 
> Just tell that and the purpose of this thread will be over.
> 
> 
> 
> Baloch missing persons: Mutilated bodies of political workers found &#8211; The Express Tribune
> 
> Jamaat condemns
> 
> The contours of target killings in Balochistan &#8211; The Express Tribune
> 
> Pakistan's secret dirty war | World news | The Guardian
> 
> Pak security agencies behind killings in Balochistan: PML-N
> 
> 
> 
> Do that. I'll return the favour from Pak newspapers
> 
> Lets compare.


 
He can either bring out a Zaid Hamid or that Whatever Qureshi guy article.


----------



## 53fd

ajaxpaul said:


> Mallu videos are world famous, cannot blame him


 
I realized a lot of Indians here are more than familiar with Pakistan's Heera Mandi, might as well expose them to their flourishing world class south Indian industry as well


----------



## Marwari

LOLzzzz.... FAIL to the false flagger.. 

Besides if you wan't Sikhs to have khalistan so bad, it includes giving up Lahore, islamabad parts of azadi kashmir parts of sindh etc.

can you pakistanis deal with it?


----------



## Swati Shukla

Marwari said:


> And the regiment my family has been in RAJPUTANA RIFLES.... RAJA RAM CHANDRA KI JAI


 
i think its SIYAVAR RAM CHANDRA KI JAI.


----------



## Swati Shukla

There is not much difference in hindus and sikhs..! believe me in bareilly cantt more sikhs visit JLA temple than hindus. and we hindus are the first one to sit in the line whenever there is BHANDAARA in JLA gurudwara. man, the food in bhandara is the best and most tasty.


----------



## Marwari

bilalhaider said:


> I realized a lot of Indians here are more than familiar with Pakistan's Heera Mandi, might as well expose them to their flourishing world class south Indian industry as well


 
I'm also familiar with karachi girls


----------



## 53fd

Karthic Sri said:


> Lol lol lol -- A Razakar blog given as a source.
> 
> Here is the famous* Blood Telegram* sent by the US Embassy in Dacca about the atrocities perperated by the West Pak army on the Bangalis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]
> 
> Link


 
Interesting you call the intellectual work of Sarmila Bose, a Bengali from Calcutta a blog.

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## 53fd

Marwari said:


> I'm also familiar with karachi girls


 
I don't think you are. Why don't you send me the links of some videos of Karachi girls on my profile page or via email, & I'll post you some of your mallu, telugu, tamil, kannada videos?


----------



## Marwari

bilalhaider said:


> I don't think you are. Why don't you send me the links of some videos of Karachi girls on my profile page or via email, & I'll post you some of your mallu, telugu, tamil videos, karnataka videos?


 Wasn't talkin about videos but ok 
And Forsure I also got Lahore girls except its not spelled that way in the link


----------



## 53fd

Marwari said:


> Wasn't talkin about videos but ok
> And Forsure I also got Lahore girls except its not spelled that way in the link


 
Most girls posing as Pakistanis on the internet are Indians. You can easily tell by their accents & the saris they wear


----------



## Break the Silence

Even I also knows "Veena Malik" I request my fellow Indians not to reply this kind of retared threads.

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## Marwari

bilalhaider said:


> Most girls posing as Pakistanis on the internet are Indians. You can easily tell by their accents & the saris they wear


 
Lolz whatever boosts your ego

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## 53fd

Marwari said:


> Lolz whatever boosts your ego


 
I'm waiting for those links buddy


----------



## JonAsad

Hello- ??

Lets talk about Sikh Genocide-

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## desioptimist

Glorious Resolve said:


> Hello- ??
> 
> Lets talk about Sikh Genocide-


 
That is another thread open already. Enjoy there.


----------



## hoitu

red_baron said:


> lol millions and millions...and there are still 1.3 billion in the world...how many billions and billions were you?


 
well said!


----------



## JonAsad

desioptimist said:


> That is another thread open already. Enjoy there.


 

Link me to the other one -


----------



## 53fd

Glorious Resolve said:


> Hello- ??
> 
> Lets talk about Sikh Genocide-


 
Most Indians don't realize that it was their Mukti Bahini that killed 1 million Biharis in East Pakistan, & like to put the blame on that on the Pakistani Army:

Mukti Bahani massacres of Biharis in Panchabibi, Jessore « Bogra « Rajshahi « Sonar Bangla « Bangladesh Patriot







Blood and Tears and the massacre of Non-Bengalis by Mukti Bahani|Dacca Times

Indians really need to start reading "Dead Reckoning" by Sarmila Bose, a Bengali from Calcutta who has unambiguously narrated the 1971 events.

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## ranveer

couple of questions to all the posters in this thread....

I am a sikh and an indian.....

I am a sikh but i am labled to being called a Hindu under Article 25 of the Indian constitution.... Now if ur a hindu which majority are Indian members on this board, would like to be called muslims...Research Article 25 and then answer...

Why should i marry under a Hindu Marraige Act even the Britishers had different Marraige Act for sikhs pre 1947... Now dont tell that India has hundreds religions so there cannot be different rules for each religion...ur talking about sikhs which is the 4th largest religion followed in india or make same rules for hindus, sikhs, muslims and call it Indian Marraige Act...

Why should my school leaving certificate list me as a Hindu Sikh in my religion column?..

Plz dont hide behind Manmohan singhs pic....Politician has no religion whichever party he belongs to....Zail singh was president when blue star happened..

It is the weakness in the Sikh kaum that has allowed all boarders here to beat their chest...

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## 53fd

Glorious Resolve said:


> Hello- ??
> 
> Lets talk about Sikh Genocide-


 
Indians also seem to forget their massacres of the Kashmiri people committed by the Indian Army from 1947 to 2011.


----------



## JonAsad

red_baron said:


> lol millions and millions...and there are still 1.3 billion in the world...how many billions and billions were you?


 
Lol- nice question- why always millions are massacred and not only few thousands--


----------



## 53fd

ranveer said:


> couple of questions to all the posters in this thread....
> 
> I am a sikh and an indian.....
> 
> I am a sikh but i am labled to being called a Hindu under Article 25 of the Indian constitution.... Now if ur a hindu which majority are Indian members on this board, would like to be called muslims...Research Article 25 and then answer...
> 
> Why should i marry under a Hindu Marraige Act even the Britishers had different Marraige Act for sikhs pre 1947... Now dont tell that India has hundreds religions so there cannot be different rules for each religion...ur talking about sikhs which is the 4th largest religion followed in india or make same rules for hindus, sikhs, muslims and call it Indian Marraige Act...
> 
> Why should my school leaving certificate list me as a Hindu Sikh in my religion column?..
> 
> Plz dont hide behind Manmohan singhs pic....Politician has no religion whichever party he belongs to....Zail singh was president when blue star happened..
> 
> It is the weakness in the Sikh kaum that has allowed all boarders here to beat their chest...


 
Pakistan identifies the Sikhs as a separate entity from the Hindus. And unlike India, the Pakistani government has also enacted the Anand Marriage act for the Sikhs. It is also a fact that Pakistani Gurdwaras & all the holy places for Sikhs in Pakistan are better maintained than those in India.

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## desioptimist

Glorious Resolve said:


> Link me to the other one -


 
Sorry, I was wrong, It is this one. 
Yesterday I replied to a few post in this thread but did not see the thread title, hence the confusion.
May be two threads Khalistan diaries and 1984 Sikh Genocide: Witness pressurised to save Sajjan Kumar are merged now.


----------



## JonAsad

bilalhaider said:


> Indians really need to start reading "Dead Reckoning" by Sarmila Bose, a Bengali from Calcutta who has unambiguously narrated the 1971 events.


 
No Indians will not read others point of views- They are allergic to it-

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## GORKHALI

bilalhaider said:


> Pakistan identifies the Sikhs as a separate entity from the Hindus. And unlike India, the Pakistani government has also enacted the Anand Marriage act for the Sikhs. It is also a fact that Pakistani Gurdwaras & all the holy places for Sikhs in Pakistan are better maintained than those in India.


 
How many gurdwars you ever been before and did* matha takena * ???Even in pakistan ,forget about india ........Or just talkin sh*t is your usual business anyway ....


----------



## desioptimist

ranveer said:


> couple of questions to all the posters in this thread....
> 
> I am a sikh and an indian.....
> 
> I am a sikh but i am labled to being called a Hindu under Article 25 of the Indian constitution.... Now if ur a hindu which majority are Indian members on this board, would like to be called muslims...Research Article 25 and then answer...
> 
> Why should i marry under a Hindu Marraige Act even the Britishers had different Marraige Act for sikhs pre 1947... Now dont tell that India has hundreds religions so there cannot be different rules for each religion...ur talking about sikhs which is the 4th largest religion followed in india or make same rules for hindus, sikhs, muslims and call it Indian Marraige Act...
> 
> Why should my school leaving certificate list me as a Hindu Sikh in my religion column?..
> 
> Plz dont hide behind Manmohan singhs pic....Politician has no religion whichever party he belongs to....Zail singh was president when blue star happened..
> 
> It is the weakness in the Sikh kaum that has allowed all boarders here to beat their chest...


 
You are not allowed to write sikh as your religion in school leaving certificate? I did not know that.
Can other sikhs confirm.


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## ranveer

bilalhaider said:


> Pakistan identifies the Sikhs as a separate entity from the Hindus. And unlike India, the Pakistani government has also enacted the Anand Marriage act for the Sikhs. It is also a fact that Pakistani Gurdwaras & all the holy places for Sikhs in Pakistan are better maintained than those in India.


 
Well mate thats gr8 to hear,,didnt know of that....

Regarding maintenance of gurudwaras again thanx but it is specific to the SGPC and not the country....in India also there is as such no problem with Gurudwara's maintenance or even i would day to day life observance of religions....

But it the politicos and the govnt that are smart ...Normal mango ppl like us have nothing to do with following of religion and there is no bandish of such...


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## GORKHALI

hmmm said:


> They wont talk about the topic coz they cant defend it.hence its their tried and tested tactic to troll and divert the topic.One has to to be really amazed of Indian insensitivity (how they laugh and scoff off the the topic )of riots affected people but then they truly.but then they defend the quintessential Hindus killed in Godhra.for them 3000 Muslims killed doesn't matter.its just pure game of pay off for them.They are expert at diverting topic by bringing in inane reasons.How the 1984 Sikh riots were played in Indian courts there is no guarantee that Gujarat riots affected Muslims and Kandhamal riots affected Muslims will ever get justice.but sure Muslims involved in Godhra riots got the punishment this shows how Indian justice system is biased in favour of Hindus.Another example of bias of Indian justice in favour of Hindus is babari masjid case.


 
how many were killed in Godhra ,compare to your 1971 is just drop of the ocean .......


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## JonAsad

PANDORA said:


> How many gurdwars you ever been before and did* matha takena * ???Even in pakistan ,forget about india ........Or just talkin sh*t is your usual business anyway ....


 
Wiki is the best source for the ignorants like you to start getting educated-

Nankana Sahib - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gurdwaras_in_Pakistan

Look the pix and see how well they are maintained-

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## GORKHALI

hmmm said:


> They wont talk about the topic coz they cant defend it.hence its their tried and tested tactic to troll and divert the topic.One has to to be really amazed of Indian insensitivity (how they laugh and scoff off the the topic )of riots affected people but then they truly.but then they defend the quintessential Hindus killed in Godhra.for them 3000 Muslims killed doesn't matter.its just pure game of pay off for them.They are expert at diverting topic by bringing in inane reasons.How the 1984 Sikh riots were played in Indian courts there is no guarantee that Gujarat riots affected Muslims and Kandhamal riots affected Muslims will ever get justice.but sure Muslims involved in Godhra riots got the punishment this shows how Indian justice system is biased in favour of Hindus.Another example of bias of Indian justice in favour of Hindus is babari masjid case.


 
Look who's talkin............


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## ranveer

desioptimist said:


> You are not allowed to write sikh as your religion in school leaving certificate? I did not know that.
> Can other sikhs confirm.


 
Its in my school leaving certificate that mentions... Hindu Sikh.....Couple of yrs back i had posted that image of my school leaving certificate on this forum also but then some other member advised against posting personal information....
Take my word on that one if you can...
We dont have to write it but it is written by school authorities..
That is a far thing but the consitution itself doesnt recognizes u...thats a fundamental question...its like a preamble of India which is Independent of all religions and also mentions social republic but behind the lines it is tricky and clever at places....


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## 53fd

PANDORA said:


> How many gurdwars you ever been before and did* matha takena * ???Even in pakistan ,forget about india ........Or just talkin sh*t is your usual business anyway ....





ranveer said:


> Well mate thats gr8 to hear,,didnt know of that....
> 
> Regarding maintenance of gurudwaras again thanx but it is specific to the SGPC and not the country....in India also there is as such no problem with Gurudwara's maintenance or even i would day to day life observance of religions....
> 
> But it the politicos and the govnt that are smart ...Normal mango ppl like us have nothing to do with following of religion and there is no bandish of such...


 
Thousands of Sikh Yatrees from all over the world (including India) come to Pakistan for their Baisakhi festival every year. Some of the holiest Sikh sites are in Pakistan, that include the Nankana Sahib, Panja Sahib, Dehra Sahib etc. And yes, I've been to Panja Sahib in Hasan Abdal, it's about an hour away from Islamabad & is the second holiest Sikh site in the world.

And btw, the Pakistani government has been more than accommodating to these Sikh Yatrees over all these years, & gives them ultra VIP treatment. Plus, Pakistan has also tried to issue visa-free travels to Sikh Yatrees for their annual Baisakhi festival:

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pakistan-open-to-visafree-sikh-pilgrimage/297316/

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## SR 71 Blackbird

The dream of Khalistan was destroyed by IA in 1984.Why to discuss something which cannot happen.


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## GORKHALI

Glorious Resolve said:


> Wiki is the best source for the ignorants like you to start getting educated-
> 
> Nankana Sahib - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Nankana Sahib - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 
Why you talkin like Kid still in nappies ????i said from where he learnt that pakistan gurdwara is better maintained than Indian counterpart ???


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## desioptimist

ranveer said:


> Its in my school leaving certificate that mentions... Hindu Sikh.....Couple of yrs back i had posted that image of my school leaving certificate on this forum also but then some other member advised against posting personal information....
> Take my word on that one if you can...
> We dont have to write it but it is written by school authorities..
> That is a far thing but the consitution itself doesnt recognizes u...thats a fundamental question...its like a preamble of India which is Independent of all religions and also mentions social republic but behind the lines it is tricky and clever at places....


 
That is definitely wrong. I am not going to sidestep the issue. What is wrong is wrong.

However do you feel discriminiated in India. Sikhs are considered hindus(as you said) but also get minority status.
Is it best of both worlds or worst?

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## GORKHALI

bilalhaider said:


> Thousands of Sikh Yatrees from all over the world (including India) come to Pakistan for their Baisakhi festival every year. Some of the holiest Sikh sites are in Pakistan, that include the Nankana Sahib, Panja Sahib, Dehra Sahib etc. And yes, I've been to Panja Sahib in Hasan Abdal, it's about an hour away from Islamabad & is the second holiest Sikh site in the world.


 
sooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!good for you but where you learnt thyat Indian gurudwars are worst maintained than pakistan ???enlighten me


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## Manas

bilalhaider said:


> Pakistan identifies the Sikhs as a separate entity from the Hindus. And unlike India, the Pakistani government has also enacted the Anand Marriage act for the Sikhs. It is also a fact that Pakistani Gurdwaras & all the holy places for Sikhs in Pakistan are better maintained than those in India.



great news!

*BTW can Sikh become prime minister or President of Pakistan ??*


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## GORKHALI

Khalistan is now Khokla sthan but some people want to revive its memories to get fantasy which they failed to acieved even after 20years..........


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## 53fd

Manas said:


> great news!
> 
> *BTW can Sikh become prime minister or President of of Pakistan ??*


 
A 'Sikh' cannot be PM of India either, because the Sikhs in India are categorized under Hindus

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## JonAsad

PANDORA said:


> how many were killed in Godhra ,compare to your 1971 is just drop of the ocean .......


 
71 was a war- Tell me if given the chance would you have stopped?-
71 Army was involved- while in 84 common every day indians were involved in brutal crimes against fellow country men Sikhs-
Justify this-


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## GORKHALI

Manas said:


> great news!
> 
> *BTW can Sikh become prime minister or President of of Pakistan ??*


 
Noooooo!!!sikh can't even become a chief minister of any province forget about PM yaar.


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## Manas

bilalhaider said:


> A 'Sikh' cannot be PM of India either, because the Sikhs in India are categorized under Hindus



You don't know sh*t.


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## JonAsad

PANDORA said:


> Why you talkin like Kid still in nappies ????i said from where he learnt that pakistan gurdwara is better maintained than Indian counterpart ???


 
and grown up still in diapers and sucking on pacifier tell me- how do you learn the opposite?-


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## GORKHALI

Glorious Resolve said:


> 71 was a war- Tell me if given the chance would you have stopped?-
> 71 Army was involved- while in 84 common every day indians were involved in brutal crimes against fellow country men Sikhs-
> Justify this-


 
Every common Indian involved ????Now that news to me ... I think its the same* RSS *and *VHP* who saved from congress party members .....

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## ranveer

desioptimist said:


> That is definitely wrong. I am not going to sidestep the issue. What is wrong is wrong.
> 
> However do you feel discriminiated in India. Sikhs are considered hindus(as you said) but also get minority status.
> Is it best of both worlds or worst?


 
There is a quote in hindi,,,Jiski lathi uski bhes,,,,it can mean the congress govent killing sikhs or bjp killin muslims or majority rulin the minorities in a manner....be it india, pakistan, usa, uk any place....
I dont feel discriminated as such as i am free to follow my religiona nd i would accept that...but yes when i think of asools its gets to me....Theres nothing like a minority status or may be not aware of... i dont get any extra benefits or preference....Even muslims get more preference in india than hindus because of vote politics...
The problem is why would i not be recognized..why would i have to be called hindu when i am not one...why would i marry under hindu marraige act..
Its just that make it one for all and remove all religion name or give freedom and recognition to all religions..


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## ranveer

SR 71 Blackbird said:


> The dream of Khalistan was destroyed by IA in 1984.Why to discuss something which cannot happen.



there was no dream of india in 1857...

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## 53fd

PANDORA said:


> sooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!good for you but where you learnt thyat Indian gurudwars are worst maintained than pakistan ???enlighten me


 
I've read travel diaries from several Indian Sikh Yatrees that traveled to Pakistan for Baisakhi. I'll be posting those links once I find them, ASAP.


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## GORKHALI

Glorious Resolve said:


> and grown up still in diapers and sucking on pacifier tell me- how do you learn the opposite?-


Well!!! a kid in napies and still sucklin thumbs raised question that where Sikhs gurdwara are well maintained ....No doubt you are one of them....


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## Nalwa

ranveer said:


> Its in my school leaving certificate that mentions... Hindu Sikh.....Couple of yrs back i had posted that image of my school leaving certificate on this forum also but then some other member advised against posting personal information....
> Take my word on that one if you can...
> We dont have to write it but it is written by school authorities..
> That is a far thing but the consitution itself doesnt recognizes u...thats a fundamental question...its like a preamble of India which is Independent of all religions and also mentions social republic but behind the lines it is tricky and clever at places....


 
I dont even remember if my school leaving certificate had a column for religion. And if it says 'Hindu-Sikh' then this was probably a mistake by your school. I would go by the census forms and passport when deciding if the govt recognizes my religion. The last time I checked my passport listed me as Sikh.


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## GORKHALI

bilalhaider said:


> I've read travel diaries from several Indian Sikh Yatrees that traveled to Pakistan for Baisakhi. I'll be posting those links once I find them, ASAP.


 
You read diaries ???? well i read international report published everwhere....Do you want me to put some links and derail the thread....


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## SR 71 Blackbird

India respects the Sikh community unlike you where Sufi's are targeted by govt. & Taliban alike.


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## GORKHALI

So where is thread starter ???? am still lookin for him/her...i want to know ,where is khalistan movement ???


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## Nalwa

PANDORA said:


> You read diaries ???? well i read international report published everwhere....Do you want me to put some links and derail the thread....


 
Most accounts of the jatha yatris are positive. But then again these are restricted to the major Gurudwaras like Nankana Sahib and Panja Sahib.


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## JonAsad

PANDORA said:


> Every common Indian involved ????Now that news to me ... I think its the same* RSS *and *VHP* who saved from congress party members .....


 
You are an ignorant if you didn't know that- and running your mouth like an Expert- I am not surprised- but you will be by READING-


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## GORKHALI

hmmm said:


> yes they are.coz never in history of pakistan its army has entered in minorities worship place but in india Golden temple polluted by Indian army.India is a place where mosques are razed to ground and churches are burnt by fundamentalist hindus.Bahh so much for the secular democratic India.


 
Never in history PA entered minorites worship place but they did enterd in majority worship place *operation lalmajid*......


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## KS

bilalhaider said:


> Most Indians don't realize that it was their Mukti Bahini that killed 1 million Biharis in East Pakistan, & like to put the blame on that on the Pakistani Army:


 
No where in that telegram is anything mentioned about the supposed Bihari killings of Mukti Bahini. It only talks about Indian support ot Mukti Bahini which we all know.

But here is the damning Blood Telegram sent from the Dacca Embassy regarding the duplicity of US Govt in dealing with the genocidal West ak govt of that time and the infamous Butcher of Balochistan - Tikka Khan.



> _Our government has failed to denounce the suppression of democracy. Our government has failed to denounce atrocities. Our government has failed to take forceful measures to protect its citizens while at the same time bending over backwards to placate the West Pak[istan] dominated government and to lessen any deservedly negative international public relations impact against them. Our government has evidenced what many will consider moral bankruptcy,(...) But we have chosen not to intervene, even morally, on the grounds that the Awami conflict, in which unfortunately the overworked term *genocide is applicable*, is purely an internal matter of a sovereign state. Private Americans have expressed disgust. We, as professional civil servants, express our dissent with current policy and fervently hope that our true and lasting interests here can be defined and our policies redirected._












[/IMG]




[/IMG]

Link

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## GORKHALI

Glorious Resolve said:


> You are an ignorant if you didn't know that- and running your mouth like an Expert- I am not surprised- but you will be by READING-


 
wat so ever !!!!!get you face out of my sight if you don't like to....


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## JonAsad

SR 71 Blackbird said:


> India respects the Sikh community unlike you where Sufi's are targeted by govt. & Taliban alike.


 
Who are Sufi's that are targeted by the govt. & Taliban- Link?-


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## Manas

ranveer said:


> couple of questions to all the posters in this thread....
> 
> Why should i marry under a Hindu Marraige Act even the Britishers had different Marraige Act for sikhs pre 1947... Now dont tell that India has hundreds religions so there cannot be different rules for each religion...ur talking about sikhs which is the 4th largest religion followed in india or make same rules for hindus, sikhs, muslims and call it Indian Marraige Act...
> 
> Why should my school leaving certificate list me as a Hindu Sikh in my religion column?..



*Listen, Hindu Marraige Act stipulated that the Hindu Code would apply to anyone who was not a Muslim, Parsi, Christian or Jew.*
*Hindu is used as broad term here.Its an act of law governing marrige and doesn't change your religion*

Sikhism is considered as distinct religion of indian origin and the number of Sikhs are counted every census.

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## ranveer

Nalwa said:


> I dont even remember if my school leaving certificate had a column for religion. And if it says 'Hindu-Sikh' then this was probably a mistake by your school. I would go by the census forms and passport when deciding if the govt recognizes my religion. The last time I checked my passport listed me as Sikh.


 
bhai saab jee,,, passport has no mention of religion..

census is taken by a guy coming to ur house and u have to just tell the guy all ur details and probably they dont ask for religion... last time i heard there was a furore in parliament because govt was trying to include religion in the census which was not included because of the opposition to such a counting..thats what i guess it is...

Have u registered ur marraige with the govt?most of us dont do but now its compulsory and the big thing is it doesnt matter to us any more..who cares attitude...whatever is there how it affects our day to day life..

Go by the Consitituion,,,,there is something article 25 in the constitution which even i didnot know of but it says that Sikhs are sub branch of Hidu religion and that was not acceptable to me...
I may be wrong but u can also check at ur own end....


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## Marwari

bilalhaider said:


> I'm waiting for those links buddy


 
Can't send PMs so I'm gonna need your email


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## GORKHALI

Karthic Sri said:


> No where in that telegram is anything mentioned about the supposed Bihari killings of Mukti Bahini. It only talks about Indian support ot Mukti Bahini which we all know.
> 
> But here is the damning Blood Telegram sent from the Dacca Embassy regarding the duplicity of US Govt in dealing with the genocidal West ak govt of that time and the infamous Butcher of Balochistan - Tikka Khan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]
> 
> Link


 
what the heck ???WHY you Brought those things in PDF mate ??? Pakistan never masscared minorites only majority were their....


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## GORKHALI

hmmm said:


> Yes just like kashmiris another drop in ocean,bombardment of mizoram people by IAF is another drop in ocean,Killing of Sikhs in 1984 right in Delhi is another drop in ocean.Killing and burning of Christians is just another drop in ocean,Killing of Stains and his sons is another drop.see with each drop of blood o minorities you Indians have made a ocean of blood itself which pales every Pakistan brutality.


 
Count them all bt still you find yourself in trouble .....


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## 53fd

Karthic Sri said:


> No where in that telegram is anything mentioned about the supposed Bihari killings of Mukti Bahini. It only talks about Indian support ot Mukti Bahini which we all know.
> 
> But here is the damning Blood Telegram sent from the Dacca Embassy regarding the duplicity of US Govt in dealing with the genocidal West ak govt of that time and the infamous Butcher of Balochistan - Tikka Khan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]
> 
> Link


 
We can keep moving around in circles, I gave you a document that explicitly showed Indian involvement with the Mukti Bahini as well, aiding them to kill 1 million Biharis in East Pakistan. So let's leave it there. This is not my claim, this is the claim of Sarmila Bose, a Bengali from Calcutta that has deeply investigated the events of 1971. Read "Dead Reckoning" by Sarmila Bose if you get the chance.

Secondly, I see no justification of the 3 million figure quoted against the Pakistani Army in these documents. And thirdly, if the Pakistani Army did allegedly commit war crimes, why didn't the UN come up with reports like they're doing with Sri Lanka, despite the fact that Sri Lanka didn't let UN inspectors come inside their country? And lastly, why hasn't the Pakistani Army or its serving officials not been convicted or taken to the international court of justice for their alleged war crimes?


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## JonAsad

PANDORA said:


> Well!!! a kid in napies and still sucklin thumbs raised question that where Sikhs gurdwara are well maintained ....No doubt you are one of them....


 
So now out of the discussion we are- into becoming personal- a run away disease common in many Indians- 

I can hurl a few direct abuses- if thats what you want -


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## Manas

Nalwa said:


> I dont even remember if my school leaving certificate had a column for religion. And if it says 'Hindu-Sikh' then this was probably a mistake by your school. I would go by the census forms and passport when deciding if the govt recognizes my religion. The last time I checked my passport listed me as Sikh.



T*hats right,i'm sure my 10th or 12th(+2) board exam certificates from the state of Orissa doesn't carries column for religion.It doesn't quote my religion as Hindu.*


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## GORKHALI

hmmm said:


> Yes just like kashmiris another drop in ocean,bombardment of mizoram people by IAF is another drop in ocean,Killing of Sikhs in 1984 right in Delhi is another drop in ocean.Killing and burning of Christians is just another drop in ocean,Killing of Stains and his sons is another drop.see with each drop of blood o minorities you Indians have made a ocean of blood itself which pales every Pakistan brutality.


 
And kashmiri ?????Well got nothing much to say..................


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## ranveer

Manas said:


> *Listen, Hindu Marraige Act stipulated that the Hindu Code would apply to anyone who was not a Muslim, Parsi, Christian or Jew.*
> *Hindu is used as broad term here.Its an act of law governing marrige and doesn't change your religion*
> 
> Sikhism is considered as distinct religion of indian origin and the number of Sikhs are counted every census.


 
Why would Christians, Parsi, Jew, Muslims not being counted under broader Hindu term...why would there be a difference isnt that discriminaiton towards sikhs or are they broader part of hindu...
Why would Sikhs not be recognized,,,they are more in population that Parsi, Jews, Christians combined..

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## Marwari

hmmm said:


> Yes just like kashmiris another drop in ocean,bombardment of mizoram people by IAF is another drop in ocean,Killing of Sikhs in 1984 right in Delhi is another drop in ocean.Killing and burning of Christians is just another drop in ocean,Killing of Stains and his sons is another drop.see with each drop of blood o minorities you Indians have made a ocean of blood itself which pales every Pakistan brutality.


 
Yes but it wasn't all in the name of "God" and nothing comes close with the killings of 3 million bangladeshis, beheadings of sikhs, forced conversions of hindus and blashphemy charges of christians.. Not to mention the oppressed people of gilgit who are hushed and dare not say anything against the blood thirsty "pakistani army"


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## KS

ranveer said:


> Its in my school leaving certificate that mentions... Hindu Sikh.....Couple of yrs back i had posted that image of my school leaving certificate on this forum also but then some other member advised against posting personal information....
> Take my word on that one if you can...
> We dont have to write it but it is written by school authorities..
> *That is a far thing but the consitution itself doesnt recognizes u...*thats a fundamental question...its like a preamble of India which is Independent of all religions and also mentions social republic but behind the lines it is tricky and clever at places....


 
That is stretching it too far. See Nalwa's reply to that.

If you are constitutionally recognized then there would be no special allowance for the Sikhs to carry kirpans or the census itself would not have column for Sikhism.

For your grouse on Hindu marriage act, the word Hindu used is a very broad term not specifically meaning Hinduism but all the Indic religions - Hinduism,Buddhism,Jainism and Sikhism in contrast to the Abrahamic religions which have their own laws.



ranveer said:


> Why would Christians, Parsi, Jew, Muslims not being counted under broader Hindu term...why would there be a difference isnt that discriminaiton towards sikhs or are they broader part of hindu...
> Why would Sikhs not be recognized,,,they are more in population that Parsi, Jews, Christians combined..


 
The context in which the word Hindu is used is to denote the Indic religions (Dharmic ones) having their origin in India as opposed to the Abrahamaic ones having their origin in West Asia.

You should note the word *Hindu itself was coined by the Persians (or Greeks ?) for all people living on the other side of the Indus.*

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## JonAsad

PANDORA said:


> wat so ever !!!!!get you face out of my sight if you don't like to....


 
how about your turn around and feel the magic-


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## desioptimist

ranveer said:


> There is a quote in hindi,,,Jiski lathi uski bhes,,,,it can mean the congress govent killing sikhs or bjp killin muslims or majority rulin the minorities in a manner....be it india, pakistan, usa, uk any place....
> I dont feel discriminated as such as i am free to follow my religiona nd i would accept that...but yes when i think of asools its gets to me....Theres nothing like a minority status or may be not aware of... i dont get any extra benefits or preference....Even muslims get more preference in india than hindus because of vote politics...
> The problem is why would i not be recognized..why would i have to be called hindu when i am not one...why would i marry under hindu marraige act..
> Its just that make it one for all and remove all religion name or give freedom and recognition to all religions..


 
Jiski lathi uski bhes, really? I would argue that sikhs have got more than what any other minority got, and definitely better placed than hindus.
Hindu marriage act does not make you hindu, it is just the name of an act which brings all marriage laws of jains, buddists, hindus and sikhs together.

For all practical purpose, sikhs are considered separate. The census counts you as sikh not a hindu. 
About minority commission : 
National Commission for Minorities
Jains and buddists also dont get any special help because they are not economically backward, why compare with muslims. Have you read Sacchar commission report?

Everybody likes to play victim victim but see the reality. Why so many people of this administration are sikhs? 
Even in Indian Army, mallus and gurkhas are not in top position in-spite of them being in huge numbers. Why?

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## ranveer

Manas said:


> T*hats right,i'm sure my 10th or 12th(+2) board exam certificates from the state of Orissa doesn't carries column for religion.It doesn't quote my religion as Hindu.*


 
I am from gujarat...pm me ur email id,,i will send u scan copy..


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## GORKHALI

Well i think that is just not personal hurl ,No is't ??? In PDF for last 6 months am still wondering "what is personal attack "???


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## GORKHALI

hmmm said:


> When they dont 've arguments to defend they hurl personal abuses.thats typical of every Indian.Nothing new in it.


 
You seems to be quiet familiar with PDF even after 17 posts......hmmmmm

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## JonAsad

PANDORA said:


> Well i think that is just not personal hurl ,No is't ??? In PDF for last 6 months am still wondering "what is personal attack "???


 
i am still wondering what is operation lalmajid- you talking about-


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## Manas

ranveer said:


> Why would Christians, Parsi, Jew, Muslims not being counted under broader Hindu term...why would there be a difference isnt that discriminaiton towards sikhs or are they broader part of hindu...
> Why would Sikhs not be recognized,,,they are more in population that Parsi, Jews, Christians combined..



*Its because of the the simple reason that Christians, Parsi, Jew, Muslims religious groups belong to non-indian origin religions. *


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## GORKHALI

hmmm said:


> When they dont 've arguments to defend they hurl personal abuses.thats typical of every Indian.Nothing new in it.


 
Well i gave you and raised question but some of you started giving me Wikipedia links and some gave me how he read the travel diaries...................So i think telling some one Kido with nappies after stup reply is not a personal attack......


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## 53fd

Manas said:


> *Its because of the the simple reason that Christians, Parsi, Jew, Muslims religious groups belong to non-indian origin religions. *


 
So that means all Indian religions should be categorized as Hinduism? Is this what secular India is all about?


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## desioptimist

Other than marriage law, what other discriminations sikhs face. I dont want my sikh brothers to hide behind friendship, no need to be nice to us. Come clear, let us know the real issues.

I like ranveer because he spoke his mind. Want same from others.


----------



## Nalwa

Manas said:


> *Its because of the the simple reason that Christians, Parsi, Jew, Muslims religious groups belong to non-indian origin religions. *


 
Thats wrong logic and you know you cant win the debate using this line of reasoning. Dont go further.


----------



## Marwari

desioptimist said:


> Other than marriage law, what other discriminations sikhs face. I dont want my sikh brothers to hide behind friendship, no need to be nice to us. Come clear, let us know the real issues.


 
Yes let them come clear without a fake account on PDF


----------



## GORKHALI

Glorious Resolve said:


> i am still wondering what is operation lalmajid- you talking about-


 
*The siege of Lal Masjid (Urdu: &#1604;&#1575;&#1604; &#1605;&#1587;&#1580;&#1583; &#1605;&#1581;&#1575;&#1589;&#1585;&#1729;, code-named Operation Sunrise[10][11]) was a confrontation in July 2007 between Islamic fundamentalist militants and the Government of Pakistan led by General Pervez Musharraf and Shaukat Aziz Administration, then Prime minister of Pakistan. The focal points of the operation were the Lal Masjid ("Red Mosque") and the Jamia Hafsa madrasah complex in Islamabad, Pakistan.*
Keep wondering about *BLUE STAR IN SKY NOW *

Partipated by _60,000 soldiers and Rangers
164 SSG commandos _


----------



## ranveer

Karthic Sri said:


> That is stretching it too far. See Nalwa's reply to that.
> 
> If you are constitutionally recognized then there would be no special allowance for the Sikhs to carry kirpans or the census itself would not have column for Sikhism.
> 
> For your grouse on Hindu marriage act, the word Hindu used is a very broad term not specifically meaning Hinduism but all the Indic religions - Hinduism,Buddhism,Jainism and Sikhism in contrast to the Abrahamic religions which have their own laws.
> 
> 
> 
> The context in which the word Hindu is used is to denote the Indic religions (Dharmic ones) having their origin in India as opposed to the Abrahamaic ones having their origin in West Asia.
> 
> You should note the word Hindu itself was coined by the Persians (or Greeks ?) for all people living on the other side of the Indus.


 
Sri with all due respect....i understand what ur saying on Hindu Marraige Act but wont u agree on calling it either Hindustan Marraige act or Indian marraige act then...Sir u would probably not understand this from my point of view...

Could u plz also explain Article 25 of the constitution as well...

What i find amazing is that we are talking of Abrahamic religions.... Sir, it would have been better for our country to recognize Indic things first then going after Abrahamic first..same like we are sometimes more british than Idians..


----------



## Manas

bilalhaider said:


> So that means all Indian religions should be categorized as Hinduism? Is this what secular India is all about?



*Arguing with you is a no brainier.*


----------



## 53fd

PANDORA said:


> *The siege of Lal Masjid (Urdu: &#1604;&#1575;&#1604; &#1605;&#1587;&#1580;&#1583; &#1605;&#1581;&#1575;&#1589;&#1585;&#1729;, code-named Operation Sunrise[10][11]) was a confrontation in July 2007 between Islamic fundamentalist militants and the Government of Pakistan led by General Pervez Musharraf and Shaukat Aziz Administration, then Prime minister of Pakistan. The focal points of the operation were the Lal Masjid ("Red Mosque") and the Jamia Hafsa madrasah complex in Islamabad, Pakistan.*
> Keep wondering about *BLUE STAR IN SKY NOW *


 
Do you know how many people in the Lal Masjid Operation died? 84, most out of which were terrorists. How many people were killed in Operation Blue Star again? Almost 15000 I believe? Can you even imagine how many Kashmiris have been killed by Indian troops since 1947?


----------



## KS

ranveer said:


> Sri with all due respect....i understand what ur saying on Hindu Marraige Act but wont u agree on calling it either Hindustan Marraige act or Indian marraige act then...Sir u would probably not understand this from my point of view...
> 
> Could u plz also explain Article 25 of the constitution as well...
> 
> What i find amazing is that we are talking of Abrahamic religions.... Sir, it would have been better for our country to recognize Indic things first then going after Abrahamic first..same like we are sometimes more british than Idians..


 
You want my personal opinion - abolish all these things Hindu Marriage act, Muslim AIMPLB everything and create a Uniform Civil code that recognized every one of us as Indians and not on religions. But that seems too much to ask.

And as far as recognition for Sikhism is concerned - Why are we even arguing. Sikhism is a distinct religion.Period.And the Govt thinks so. Thats why you are listed as Sikhs under the minorities and on the same hand you get reservation also which is denied to Muslims, Christians. Double bonanza.


----------



## Marwari

bilalhaider said:


> Do you know how many people in the Lal Masjid Operation died? 84, most out of which were terrorists. How many people were killed in Operation Blue Star again? Almost 15000 I believe? Can you even imagine how many Kashmiris have been killed by Indian troops since 1947?


 
Operation Searchlight killed about 3 million Bangladeshis nothing beats the atrocities done by the paksitani army. 

Are you gonna give me your email or are you just talk?


----------



## GORKHALI

hmmm said:


> One need not to be on PDF to know this typical trait(trolling) of Indians.Indians troll on every Pakistani board and PDF is no exception.


 
lol!!!!i can only smile and now you do me a favour,PLZ do Give ya introduction in Members club


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## desioptimist

ranveer said:


> Sri with all due respect....i understand what ur saying on Hindu Marraige Act but wont u agree on calling it either Hindustan Marraige act or Indian marraige act then...Sir u would probably not understand this from my point of view...
> 
> Could u plz also explain Article 25 of the constitution as well...
> 
> What i find amazing is that we are talking of Abrahamic religions.... Sir, it would have been better for our country to recognize Indic things first then going after Abrahamic first..same like we are sometimes more british than Idians..


 
First of all the country recognizes you as separate religion. You are counted as minority as well.
Apart from "name" of the marriage act, do you miss anything in the act. Is any provision which is required for sikhs missing in the act?
It cant be called indian marriage act, you know why.


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## GORKHALI

bilalhaider said:


> Do you know how many people in the Lal Masjid Operation died? 84, most out of which were terrorists. How many people were killed in Operation Blue Star again? Almost 15000 I believe? Can you even imagine how many Kashmiris have been killed by Indian troops since 1947?


 
So those who died in blue star were what ,once again ????? I want to hear it loud


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## KS

bilalhaider said:


> Do you know how many people in the Lal Masjid Operation died? 84, most out of which were terrorists. How many people were killed in Operation Blue Star again? *Almost 15000 I believe?* Can you even imagine how many Kashmiris have been killed by Indian troops since 1947?


 
Your belief is wrong. Period.

None of the kashmiris were killed till the bone0-headed Jihadis started coming from across the border in 1988 and started killing the Hindus/Sikhs/Jains/Buddhists living there.

Kashmir was a Valley of peace till 1988 and remember Op.Gibralter failed because some Patriotic Kashmiris informed the Indian Army of suspicious movements by the Pak SSG.

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## GORKHALI

PANDORA said:


> So those who died in blue star were what ,once again ????? I want to hear it loud


For your starter WIKi works 

Operation Blue Star - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ranveer

desioptimist said:


> Other than marriage law, what other discriminations sikhs face. I dont want my sikh brothers to hide behind friendship, no need to be nice to us. Come clear, let us know the real issues.
> 
> I like ranveer because he spoke his mind. Want same from others.



mate,,,its not us and i or we....its not abt holding any grudges to any one....its just that the respect that we give to our constitution makers or the prime ministers and the presidents...we learn abt stalwatsr of the nation and all those iconic roads and buildings...its just that the respect dies down..


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## 53fd

Marwari said:


> Operation Searchlight killed about 3 million nothing beats the atrocities done by the paksitani army.
> 
> Are you gonna give me your email or are you just talk?


 
No independent UN investigation has ever been done to verify the 3 million figure. No Pakistani Army official or the Pakistani Army has been charged with war crimes in the international court of justice. If the UN reported human rights violations in Sri Lanka despite Sri Lanka not letting them into their country, why didn't the UN or any independent organization ever verify these figures? 

Also, it is not possible for the Pakistani Army to kill 3 million people in 10 months with 350,000 troops against India's 500,000 troops & 100,000 Mukti Bahinis during the war. If Pakistan managed to kill 3 million people in 10 months with 350,000 troops, how many Kashmiris would have 700,000 Indian troops killed from 1947 to 2011? They would have probably wiped off the whole population, not just the Kashmiris, if you apply the same kill rate for the Indian Army that you did for the Pakistani Army in 1971.


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## Nalwa

Karthic Sri said:


> You want my personal opinion - abolish all these things Hindu Marriage act, Muslim AIMPLB everything and create a Uniform Civil code that recognized every one of us as Indians and not on religions. But that seems too much to ask.
> 
> And as far as recognition for Sikhism is concerned - Why are we even arguing. Sikhism is a distinct religion.Period and the Govt thinks so. Thats why you are listed as Sikhs under the minorities and on the same hand you get reservation also which is denied to Muslims, Christians. Double bonanza.


 
I would take that. Either have a Sikh marriage act if the constitution has one for the Muslims or any other faiths. Or just abolish all mention of religion from the marriage act.

But the trouble is that wedding ceremonies have a distinctly religious nature, specific to every religion. So its essential to ratify a given wedding based on the religious ceremonies followed.


----------



## JonAsad

PANDORA said:


> *The siege of Lal Masjid (Urdu: &#1604;&#1575;&#1604; &#1605;&#1587;&#1580;&#1583; &#1605;&#1581;&#1575;&#1589;&#1585;&#1729;, code-named Operation Sunrise[10][11]) was a confrontation in July 2007 between Islamic fundamentalist militants and the Government of Pakistan led by General Pervez Musharraf and Shaukat Aziz Administration, then Prime minister of Pakistan. The focal points of the operation were the Lal Masjid ("Red Mosque") and the Jamia Hafsa madrasah complex in Islamabad, Pakistan.*
> Keep wondering about *BLUE STAR IN SKY NOW *
> 
> Partipated by _60,000 soldiers and Rangers
> 164 SSG commandos _



You dont get it- do you- technical faults of your tongues can be ignore when you use j instead of z every where- but spelling mistakes are not considered healthy- Still wondering what lalmajid is-


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## indianpatriot

THESE KHALISTAN THREADS ARE NOW GIVING ME HEADACHES.


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## GORKHALI

Alright guys gotta go .lets beat the deat meat as much you can.....


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## desioptimist

ranveer said:


> mate,,,its not us and i or we....its not abt holding any grudges to any one....its just that the respect that we give to our constitution makers or the prime ministers and the presidents...we learn abt stalwatsr of the nation and all those iconic roads and buildings...its just that the respect dies down..


 
Is there any other discrimination to sikhs, other than not having separate marriage act. I just want everybody know. 
I did not know about school certificate, we dont mention religion in my state. hence that was new to me.
Any other discrimination, please post here.


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## 53fd

PANDORA said:


> So those who died in blue star were what ,once again ????? I want to hear it loud


 
You cannot seriously compare 84 people with 15000 people. You've lost your mind. Get some sleep, you really need it.


----------



## ranveer

Karthic Sri said:


> You want my personal opinion - abolish all these things Hindu Marriage act, Muslim AIMPLB everything and create a Uniform Civil code that recognized every one of us as Indians and not on religions. But that seems too much to ask.
> 
> And as far as recognition for Sikhism is concerned - Why are we even arguing. Sikhism is a distinct religion.Period.And the Govt thinks so. Thats why you are listed as Sikhs under the minorities and on the same hand you get reservation also which is denied to Muslims, Christians. Double bonanza.


 
well i thought bonanza was only icecream....could u plz provide some reference or link where u found Sikhism is a different religion....
Minority status and reservation??? never heard of all those....
And if u know what is the Article 25 of the constitution....

I would agree to u on the first para....all for one or nothing..but then u would have to be communist i gues..


----------



## indianpatriot

Guru Nanak never intended to make a religion that will create rift between people.Sikhism is a religion od brotherhood and love not separation and hate mongering.You know what Khalsa means....?
Hindu families donated their first sons to Khalsa Army to fight against unjust rule of Aurangzeb.


----------



## ranveer

desioptimist said:


> Is there any other discrimination to sikhs, other than not having separate marriage act. I just want everybody know.
> I did not know about school certificate, we dont mention religion in my state. hence that was new to me.
> Any other discrimination, please post here.


 
How do u know that ur a Hindu or a Muslim or a Sikh as per the Indian government?

Its not census but its as per the constitution or law...now check the article 25 of the consitution with google baba....


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## desioptimist

self delete


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## KS

Nalwa said:


> I would take that. Either have a Sikh marriage act if the constitution has one for the Muslims or any other faiths. Or just abolish all mention of religion from the marriage act.
> 
> But the trouble is that wedding ceremonies have a distinctly religious nature, specific to every religion. *So its essential to ratify a given wedding based on the religious ceremonies followed.*


 
I don't think the bolded part would be a problem as even among the Hindus the rituals vary vastly from region to region. A Rajasthani Hindu marriage will be totally in contrast to a Tamil Hindu marriage and even among the Tamils each caste has its own rituals.

So just have a common marriage act for all and then register in the Govt office after celebrating the marriage in any way you want. Solved.

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## Nalwa

ranveer said:


> well i thought bonanza was only icecream....could u plz provide some reference or link where u found Sikhism is a different religion....
> Minority status and reservation??? never heard of all those....
> And if u know what is the Article 25 of the constitution....
> 
> I would agree to u on the first para....all for one or nothing..but then u would have to be communist i gues..


 
Ranveer, what did you enter as your religion in the census form? If there was a provision for Sikhism in the form then the govt. recognizes it. Lets not rest all the recognition on one act. I agree with you that a Sikh marriage act is needed but lets not attach more connotations to the issue than it deserves. Rest, this is an endless debate.


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## Manas

Nalwa said:


> Thats wrong logic and you know you cant win the debate using this line of reasoning. Dont go further.


 
Nalwa, 

Non indic religions like Islam and Christians have *separate codified marriage acts* for many centuries.

Whereas indic religions never had codfied version their marrige laws and are pretty much similar to each other in how they practiced.
So it made practical sense to have a common law governing this bunch of similar groups who have no problem with the underlying stipulations of this common marrige act except for its name , instead of having four or five similar set of acts with different names on it.


----------



## Nalwa

Karthic Sri said:


> I don't think the bolded part would be a problem as even among the Hindus the rituals vary vastly from region to region. A Rajasthani Hindu marriage will be totally in contrast to a Tamil Hindu marriage and even among the Tamils each caste has its own rituals.
> 
> *So just have a common marriage act for all and then register in the Govt office after celebrating the marriage in any way you want. Solved.*



You are probably right. But I guess the Sanskrit shlokas that are chanted wont change. We can go into details of the similarities and dissimilarities but its of no use. Agree with the part on bold whole-heartedly.


----------



## KS

ranveer said:


> well i thought bonanza was only icecream....could u plz provide some reference or link where u found Sikhism is a different religion....
> Minority status and reservation??? never heard of all those....
> And if u know what is the Article 25 of the constitution....
> 
> *I would agree to u on the first para....all for one or nothing..but then u would have to be communist i gues..*


 
What more would you want me to provide ?

The official Indian Govt website for minorities was given and the Sikhism was there as a distinct religion.Every Govt application form mentions Sikhism as a separate religion

I guess you are reading too much into the naming of one act and them extrapolating that as a threat to Sikhism. As I said Hindu was a name that was coined by the Persians to denote all people East of Indus and this was used as such.

I'm a BJP supporter and I dont want any special treatment to any religion. *One law for All Indians is my motto.*

As for reservation for Sikhs, I have PM'ed the link to you. Please go though it.



Nalwa said:


> You are probably right. But I guess the Sanskrit shlokas that are chanted wont change. We can go into details of the similarities and dissimilarities but its of no use. Agree with the part on bold whole-heartedly.


 
No yaar. Even in some Tamil marriages we use Tamil slokas and avoid the Sanskrit ones.

India is too vast a country to have one law for each. These personal issues like marriage should best be left to the people.


----------



## desioptimist

ranveer said:


> How do u know that ur a Hindu or a Muslim or a Sikh as per the Indian government?
> 
> Its not census but its as per the constitution or law...now check the article 25 of the consitution with google baba....


 
Article 25 mentions the word hindu will be used to refer to hindus, sikhs , jains and buddists. It does not make them hindu.
I am counted as hindu as I declared myself so in census. You are counted as sikh. 
What substantial change you want in hindu marriage law to make it sikh marriage law. Are you offended to be clubbed with poor ugly hindus?


----------



## Nalwa

Manas said:


> Nalwa,
> 
> Non indic religions like Islam and Christians have *separate codified marriage acts* for many centuries.
> 
> Whereas indic religions never had codfied version their marrige laws and are pretty much similar to each other in how they practiced.
> So it made practical sense to have a common law governing this bunch of similar groups who have no problem with the underlying stipulations of this common marrige act except for its name , instead of having four or five similar set of acts with different names on it.


 
Good point there. I am not sure if the Sikh faith has codified any specific set of marriage laws or ceremonies. I guess its mostly practiced by common tradition.

And I do understand the ease of having one law to govern 'similar' ceremonies. But I also think that if its disaffecting a certain community then whats the harm in amending it?


----------



## 53fd

Karthic Sri said:


> What more would you want me to provide ?
> 
> The official Indian Govt website for minorities was given and the Sikhism was there as a distinct religion.Every Govt application form mentions Sikhism as a separate religion
> 
> I guess you are reading too much into the naming of one act and them extrapolating that as a threat to Sikhism. As I said Hindu was a name that was coined by the Persians to denote all people East of Indus and this was used as such.
> 
> I'm a BJP supporter and I dont want any special treatment to any religion. *One law for All Indians is my motto.*
> 
> 
> 
> No yaar. Even in some Tamil marriages we use Tamil slokas and avoid the Sanskrit ones.
> 
> India is too vast a country to have one law for each. These personal issues like marriage should best be left to the people.


 
If India can have so many different official languages in each & every state of India, why can't it give Sikhs the Anand Marriage Act?


----------



## Marwari

bilalhaider said:


> If India can have so many different state languages & such diversity there, why can't it give Sikhs the Anand Marriage Act?


 
Because even then a Haryanvi marriage is different than a Tamil or even Gujarati marriage, shall we create seperate acts for those as well?


----------



## desioptimist

Nalwa said:


> Good point there. I am not sure if the Sikh faith has codified any specific set of marriage laws or ceremonies. I guess its mostly practiced by common tradition.
> 
> And I do understand the ease of having one law to govern 'similar' ceremonies. But I also think that if its disaffecting a certain community then whats the harm in amending it?


 
I agree. If there is demand, we should have separate law. Why not.


----------



## KS

bilalhaider said:


> If India can have so many different official languages in each & every state of India, why can't it give Sikhs the Anand Marriage Act?


 
Lets us *Indians* discuss about that - an internal matter of India.I am obliged to reply to Indian Sikhs not to you mate on this topic.

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## 53fd

Marwari said:


> Because even then a Haryanvi marriage is different than a Tamil or even Gujarati marriage, shall we create seperate acts for those as well?


 
No, break up the marriage acts by religion.


----------



## 53fd

Karthic Sri said:


> Lets us *Indians* discuss about that - an internal matter of India.I am obliged to reply to Indian Sikhs not you you mate on this topic.


 
Haha, you're the one most interested in the internal matters of Pakistan. Mark your words for future references


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## KS

bilalhaider said:


> Haha, you're the one most interested in the internal matters of Pakistan. Mark your words for future references


 
Lol look who is talking - a person who eats,breaths India related threads.

Pot--kettle---Black.



bilalhaider said:


> No, break up the marriage acts by religion.


 
Do you have Hindu Marriage law in Pakistan ? Is it not an internal matter of Pakistan ?

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## Marwari

bilalhaider said:


> No, break up the marriage acts by religion.


 
 You clearly don't understand "Indian" religions then. Hinduism can be classified with so many different sects, they could be catergorized as different religions. I'm not saying Sikhism or Jainism is part of Hinduism. It complicates everything. Might as well just call it the Indic Marriage Act or Dharmic Marriage Act. Solves everything.


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## metro

*seems i got late to the party...*


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## 53fd

Karthic Sri said:


> Do you have Hindu Marriage law in Pakistan ?


 
Lets us Pakistanis discuss about that - an internal matter of Pakistan.I am obliged to reply to Pakistanis not you you mate on this topic.

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## tallboy123

red_baron said:


> 4 cases?you killed* 4 million* in 1984 sikh massacre govt sponsored



Are u out of ur mind????
4 million=40Lakhs....
Go read Wikipedia again
don't spread ur propaganda here


----------



## KS

bilalhaider said:


> Lets us Pakistanis discuss about that - an internal matter of Pakistan.I am obliged to reply to Pakistanis not you you mate on this topic.


 
See my full,edited post.Looks like you hit the reply in a hurry. Like that is an internal matter of Pak and I have no _locus standi_ on it, you dont have here in this topic.

Bahh...have to spoon feed everything.


----------



## metro

*One single troll, trolling on every Indian thread. 
Get a life troll.*


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## desioptimist

Oh common karthik, there is no internal external in internet forum. 

Glorious and bilal, I cant help notice, that you come in pairs and thank each other.
Is there anything I should know?

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## KS

desioptimist said:


> Oh common karthik, there is no internal external in internet forum.


 
Lol this response was after I have explained the issue in so many posts to Ranveer and Nalwa.

Cant they just read through the previous posts. ?


----------



## Marwari

desioptimist said:


> Oh common karthik, there is no internal external in internet forum.


 
Especially as khalistan will include pakistan punjab, parts of azad kashmir, and parts of sindh


----------



## 53fd

Karthic Sri said:


> See my full,edited post.Looks like you hit the reply in a hurry. Like that is an internal matter of Pak and I have no _locus standi_ on it, you dont have here in this topic.
> 
> Bahh...have to spoon feed everything.


 
Pakistan has already enacted the Anand Marriage Act for the Sikhs, about to enact Hindu Marriage Law in Pakistan as well:

Pakistan Hindu Post (PHP): Bill for Hindu Marriage Act to be tabled soon , Pakistan

Bill for Hindu Marriage Act to be tabled soon in Pakistan « Struggle for Hindu Existence

Btw, when are you planning to enact the Anand Marriage Law in India for the Sikhs?


----------



## tallboy123

bilalhaider said:


> Interesting you call the intellectual work of Sarmila Bose, a Bengali from Calcutta a blog.


 
 that's blood telegram not from a blog.....
GO learn something about ur horrific history...

BTW,i thanked ur post because,u showed me how far can a **** go


----------



## KS

bilalhaider said:


> Interesting you call the intellectual work of Sarmila Bose, a Bengali from Calcutta a blog.


 
Sarmila Bose, the joke of a Bengali whose blogs have been de-bunked many times over by both Bangladeshi and Indian Bengalis alike.

You might as well quoted Zion Hamid to support your argument.


----------



## desioptimist

bilalhaider said:


> Pakistan has already enacted the Anand Marriage Act for the Sikhs, about to enact Hindu Marriage Law in Pakistan as well:
> 
> Pakistan Hindu Post (PHP): Bill for Hindu Marriage Act to be tabled soon , Pakistan
> 
> Bill for Hindu Marriage Act to be tabled soon in Pakistan « Struggle for Hindu Existence
> 
> Btw, when are you planning to enact the Anand Marriage Law in India for the Sikhs?


 
Good for pakistan. Hope all sikhs are happier in pakistan than India.


----------



## KS

bilalhaider said:


> Pakistan has already enacted the Anand Marriage Act for the Sikhs, about to enact Hindu Marriage Law in Pakistan as well:
> 
> Pakistan Hindu Post (PHP): Bill for Hindu Marriage Act to be tabled soon , Pakistan
> 
> Bill for Hindu Marriage Act to be tabled soon in Pakistan « Struggle for Hindu Existence
> 
> Btw, when are you planning to enact the Anand Marriage Law in India for the Sikhs?


 
Come back with the trumpets and Dhol when it is sucessfully enacted. Till then Adios. 

BTW why is the second like titled "Struggle for Hindu Existence". Any special reason we should know ?

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## metro

bilalhaider said:


> Pakistan has already enacted the Anand Marriage Act for the Sikhs, about to enact Hindu Marriage Law in Pakistan as well:
> 
> Pakistan Hindu Post (PHP): Bill for Hindu Marriage Act to be tabled soon , Pakistan
> 
> Bill for Hindu Marriage Act to be tabled soon in Pakistan « Struggle for Hindu Existence
> 
> Btw, when are you planning to enact the Anand Marriage Law in India for the Sikhs?


 
Hope Sikhs in Pakistan are not forced to pay jizya to stay alive.


----------



## Marwari

metro said:


> Hope Sikhs in Pakistan are not forced to pay jizya to stay alive.


 
Or beheaded if they don't


----------



## Tiki Tam Tam

The Sikhs' Kingdom was mostly composed of Pakistani Punjab and not Indian Punjab.

Therefore, it is incorrect to state that the Sikhs orginated from Indian Punjab as has been said by a posters.

Maharaja Ranjit Singh belonged to a Sikh clan of Northern India.. He was born in Gujranwala, now in modern Pakistan, according to some historians, into a Jatt Sikh family. His Kingdom was the shining example of the Khalsa pride and greatness. His capital was in Lahore, which is in Pakistan.

By the end of his reign, his Kingdom extended from the boundary of British India to the left and to the powerful Afghan Empire to the right.

Therefore, the Sikh Kingdom is all of Pakistan!

The Khalistanis, whoever they may claim to be, have no hope in hell, to get Pakistan or even the part of India that is Punjab!


----------



## Marwari

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> The Sikhs' Kingdom was mostly composed of Pakistani Punjab and not Indian Punjab.
> 
> Therefore, it is incorrect to state that the Sikhs orginated from Indian Punjab as has been said by a posters.
> 
> Maharaja Ranjit Singh belonged to a Sikh clan of Northern India.. He was born in Gujranwala, now in modern Pakistan, according to some historians, into a Jatt Sikh family. His Kingdom was the shining example of the Khalsa pride and greatness. His capital was in Lahore, which is in Pakistan.
> 
> By the end of his reign, his Kingdom extended from the boundary of British India to the left and to the powerful Afghan Empire to the right.
> 
> Therefore, the Sikh Kingdom is all of Pakistan!
> 
> The Khalistanis, whoever they may claim to be, have no hope in hell, to get Pakistan or even the part of India that is Punjab!


 
These khalistani loonies also claim small parts of Rajasthan, Haryana, Azad Kashmir,and Sindh


----------



## 53fd

metro said:


> Hope Sikhs in Pakistan are not forced to pay jizya to stay alive.


 
No, 15000 Sikhs aren't killed by the Pakistani state unlike India. 

And to answer your question, this is what the constitution of Pakistan says about the rights of minorities:



> 20.	*Freedom to profess religion and to manage religious institutions*.
> Subject to law, public order and morality:-
> (a)	*every citizen shall have the right to profess, practise and propagate his religion;* and
> (b)	*every religious denomination and every sect thereof shall have the right to establish, maintain and manage its religious institutions*.
> 
> 21.	*Safeguard against taxation for purposes of any particular religion*.
> No person shall be compelled to pay any special tax the proceeds of which are to be spent on the propagation or maintenance of any religion other than his own.
> 
> 22.	*Safeguards as to educational institutions in respect of religion, etc*.
> (1) *No person attending any educational institution shall be required to receive religious instruction*, or take part in any religious ceremony, or attend religious worship, if such instruction, ceremony or worship relates to a religion other than his own.
> (2) *In respect of any religious institution, there shall be no discrimination against any community in the granting of exemption or concession in relation to taxation.*
> (3)	* Subject to law:*
> (a)	no religious community or denomination shall be prevented from providing religious instruction for pupils of that community or denomination in any educational institution maintained wholly by that community or denomination; and
> (b) *no citizen shall be denied admission to any educational institution receiving aid from public revenues on the ground only of race, religion, caste or place of birth*.
> 
> 25.	Equality of citizens.
> (1) *All citizens are equal before law and are entitled to equal protection of law*.
> 
> 26.	*Non-discrimination in respect of access to public places*.
> (1) In respect of access to places of public entertainment or resort not intended for religious purposes only, *there shall be no discrimination against any citizen on the ground only of race, religion, caste, sex, residence or place of birth*.
> 
> 27.	*Safeguard against discrimination in services.*
> (1) *No citizen otherwise qualified for appointment in the service of Pakistan shall be discriminated against in respect of any such appointment on the ground only of race, religion, caste, sex, residence or place of birth.*



[Chapter 1: Fundamental Rights] of [Part II: Fundamental Rights and Principles of Policy]

---------- Post added at 02:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------




metro said:


> Hope Sikhs in Pakistan are not forced to pay jizya to stay alive.


 


Marwari said:


> Or beheaded if they don't



Troll posts.

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## Icarus

DEMI GOD said:


> Langar (Sikhism) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> see this from where those families get food
> i think u dont know nothing about sikhism and still making useless comments


 
Actually I do know quite a bit about Sikhism and Sikhs as a people, since I was a member of a delegation sent by the govt to give the Sikhs exiled by the Taliban the good news that their home towns had been cleared of militants and were awaiting their arrivals. The Langar works 24/7 at Hassanabdal but during the flood days, the added number of dependants, muslims as well as non-muslims led the Langar to near bankruptcy, the board asked the govt for help and the govt complied.


----------



## Tiki Tam Tam

Amongst the Sikhs you forgot:



> Naib Subedar Bana Singh P.V.C. was born on 6th January 1949 into a Punjabi Sikh family, at Kadyal in Jammu and Kashmir. He enrolled in the Indian Army on 6 January 1969 into the Jammu & Kashmir Light Infantry (JAK LI). He was awarded the Param Vir Chakra, the highest wartime gallantry medal in India.
> 
> During June 1987, the 8th Jammu & Kashmir LI, was deployed in the Siachen area. It was then found that a large number of Pakistani infiltrators had intruded over the Siachen Glacier. The ejection of these infiltrators was considered difficult but necessary and a special task force was, constituted for the purpose. Naib Subedar Singh volunteered to join this force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Pakistani intrusion had taken place at a height of 6500 metres, the highest peak in the Siachen Glacier area. The enemy post was virtually an impregnable glacier fortress with ice walls, 457 metres high, on either side. Naib Subedar Bana Singh led his men through an extremely difficult and hazardous route. He inspired them by his indomitable courage and leadership. He and his men crawled and closed in on the adversary. Lobbing hand-grenades, charging with a bayonet and moving from trench to trench, he cleared the post of all intruders.
> 
> Naib Subedar Bana Singh was awarded the Param Vir Chakra, the highest wartime gallantry medal in India, for conspicuous bravery and leadership under most adverse conditions. The peak which he captured was renamed Bana Top in his honour. At the time of the Kargil War, he was the only PVC awardee who was still serving in the Army.



The post he captured was the Qaid Post.


----------



## metro

bilalhaider said:


> No, 15000 Sikhs aren't killed by the Pakistani state unlike India.
> 
> And to answer your question, this is what the constitution of Pakistan says about the rights of minorities:
> 
> 
> 
> [Chapter 1: Fundamental Rights] of [Part II: Fundamental Rights and Principles of Policy]
> 
> ---------- Post added at 02:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Troll posts.


 
But poor sikhs have to pay jizya fr their survival
Sikhs in Pakistan pay Rs2 crore in Jizya for their safety | Drishtikone
Come on, what sort of barbarity is this.
Why does someone ha to pay you in order to live ?
what a shame. 


and about rights to minority in pakistan, less said the better, hope they are not being persecuted through draconian blasphemy laws.


----------



## 53fd

metro said:


> But poor sikhs have to pay jizya fr their survival
> Sikhs in Pakistan pay Rs2 crore in Jizya for their safety | Drishtikone
> Come on, what sort of barbarity is this.
> Why does someone ha to pay you in order to live ?
> what a shame.
> 
> 
> and about rights to minority in pakistan, less said the better, hope they are not being persecuted through draconian blasphemy laws.


 
They paid the Jizya to the TTP who the Pakistani government is fighting everyday, unlike your government that kills 15000 Sikhs.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## KS

bilalhaider said:


> And to answer your question, this is what the constitution of Pakistan says about the rights of minorities:


 
The same sooper dooper Pakistani constitution says this also 



> After the election of the Speaker and the Deputy Speaker, the National Assembly shall, to the exclusion of any other business, proceed to elect without debate one of its Muslim members to be the Prime Minister.



Notes for Part III, Chapter 3

And this ;



> A person shall not be qualified for election as President unless he is a Muslim of not less than forty-five years of age and is qualified to be elected as member of the National Assembly.



[Chapter 1: The President] of [Part III: The Federation of Pakistan]


----------



## Manas

Karthic Sri said:


> And as far as recognition for Sikhism is concerned - Why are we even arguing. Sikhism is a distinct religion.Period.And the Govt thinks so. Thats why you are listed as Sikhs under the minorities and on the same hand you get reservation also which is denied to Muslims, Christians. Double bonanza.


 
Its the same reaso why low caste Sikhs gets reservation quota ,just like their other india counterparts that every indic religious group practice caste system ,whereas the Muslims, Christians don't caste system ingrained with the religion.


----------



## 53fd

Karthic Sri said:


> The same Pakistani constitution says this also
> 
> 
> 
> Notes for Part III, Chapter 3
> 
> And this ;
> 
> 
> 
> [Chapter 1: The President] of [Part III: The Federation of Pakistan]


 
Yes, besides the PM/President position, a non-Muslim can do exactly the same things a Muslim can do.


----------



## Marwari

bilalhaider said:


> No, 15000 Sikhs aren't killed by the Pakistani state unlike India.
> 
> And to answer your question, this is what the constitution of Pakistan says about the rights of minorities:
> 
> 
> [Chapter 1: Fundamental Rights] of [Part II: Fundamental Rights and Principles of Policy]
> 
> ---------- Post added at 02:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Troll posts.


 








Seems like they are safe in pakistan 

Here's from the source you provided 
Sikh Hindu Pilgrims are not safe in Pakistan. « Struggle for Hindu Existence

Hindus, Sikhs may face worse times in future In Pakistan


----------



## metro

*Not a single Sikh in Pakistani cricket team, not a singe Sikh in your film industry, not a single Sikh star in Pakistan, hardly any Sikhs in politics, Minorities have been systematically hunted down and massacred, and you guys have the audacity to talk about minority rights.*


----------



## jdme

bilalhaider is a certified troll. Why do you guys engage him? He has never made sense. Bitterness does that to a person.


----------



## metro

bilalhaider said:


> Yes, besides the PM/President position, a non-Muslim can do exactly the same things a Muslim can do.


 
why cant a non-muslims be PM/President..??
why is this seat reserved for only Muslims ?
You think only you the right to rule over others ?
What a disgusting constitution.


----------



## KS

BTW why do Sikhs in Pakistan want citizenship in India when there is no Marriage act for them in India.

Beheaded Sikh's cousin wants Indian citizenship


----------



## 53fd




----------



## metro

bilalhaider said:


> They paid the Jizya to the TTP who the Pakistani government is fighting everyday, unlike your government that kills 15000 Sikhs.


 They had to pay extortion money for their survival while they were Pakistani citizens??
why didnt Pakistani govt. do anything for their safety, why blow trumpets about minority rights when they are being treated like animals and second class citizens.

What a shame on humanity.


----------



## Icarus

Karthic Sri said:


> Since you seem to talk sense, tell me honestly -- do you think Sikhs in *India* (not those in Canada) want to secede from India ?
> 
> Just tell that and the purpose of this thread will be over.
> 
> 
> 
> Baloch missing persons: Mutilated bodies of political workers found &#8211; The Express Tribune
> 
> Jamaat condemns
> 
> The contours of target killings in Balochistan &#8211; The Express Tribune
> 
> Pakistan's secret dirty war | World news | The Guardian
> 
> Pak security agencies behind killings in Balochistan: PML-N
> 
> 
> 
> Do that. I'll return the favour from Pak newspapers
> 
> Lets compare.


 
No, the Khalistan movt is dead, long gone, finished. What I don't get is then why hold this discussion in the first place. You may have noted that the OP is an Indian and the guys who took it away to loonyland are all newbies...................
As for the links, they carry no evidence which implicates Pak Army in these killings. This is the handy work of the BLA. Just yesterday they stopped a passenger bus, doused it in petrol and set it on fire, killing 15 innocent people. It is their job to create insecurity in Balochistan so that a military presence can be maintained there and they can conveniently blame their dirty work on the army. I wrote a thesis on this too. If I am allowed permission, I will post it for you.....


----------



## AvidSpice

Leave aside Hindus, Sikhs and other minorities. Muslims kill Muslims in Pakistan almost every other day. Too Bad.

P.S: I do indulge in mudslinging once in a while.


----------



## metro

Oh, now the troll has resorted to youtube videos.
What a shame. 
You constitution says a sikh cant be leader of your nation, there is not a single sikh superstar in your country.
Sikh have to pay jizya to stay alive.
They are being treated like second class citizens.

What a shameful piece of constitution.


----------



## metro

Avishekh said:


> Leave aside Hindus, Sikhs and other minorities. Muslims kill Muslims in Pakistan almost every other day. Too Bad.
> 
> P.S: I do indulge in mudslinging once in a while.


 
Now he will start complaining. 
They dont like when we give them a taste of their own medicine.


----------



## 53fd




----------



## metro

*Seems we have touched a raw nerve.*


----------



## KS

bilalhaider said:


> <...>[/video]


 
Since you were intelligent enough to quote and bold parts of Pak constitution, whats your opinion on these parts of the Pak constitution ?

The same sooper dooper Pakistani constitution says this also 



> After the election of the Speaker and the Deputy Speaker, the National Assembly shall, to the exclusion of any other business, proceed to elect without debate one of its Muslim members to be the Prime Minister.



Notes for Part III, Chapter 3

And this ;



> A person shall not be qualified for election as President unless he is a Muslim of not less than forty-five years of age and is qualified to be elected as member of the National Assembly.



[Chapter 1: The President] of [Part III: The Federation of Pakistan]

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## 53fd

metro said:


> *Seems we have touched a raw nerve.*


 
Don't worry, Pakistan doesn't kill thousands of minorities in Pakistan like your government kills thousands of Muslims, Sikhs, Christians. Sad that this is the secular India Indians are so crazy about, tskkk tskkk... Shame on the Hindutva Saffron band extremists.


----------



## metro

Karthic Sri said:


> Since you were intelligent enough to quote and bold parts of Pak constitution, whats your opinion on these parts of the Pak constitution ?
> 
> The same sooper dooper Pakistani constitution says this also
> 
> 
> 
> Notes for Part III, Chapter 3
> 
> And this ;
> 
> 
> 
> [Chapter 1: The President] of [Part III: The Federation of Pakistan]


 
Oh my god. They call it Constitution.
No wonder Minorities are already on a run from that country.


----------



## 53fd

Karthic Sri said:


> Since you were intelligent enough to quote and bold parts of Pak constitution, whats your opinion on these parts of the Pak constitution ?
> 
> The same sooper dooper Pakistani constitution says this also
> 
> 
> 
> Notes for Part III, Chapter 3
> 
> And this ;
> 
> 
> 
> [Chapter 1: The President] of [Part III: The Federation of Pakistan]


 
I've said that besides being elected as a President/PM, a non-Muslim is entitled to hold any office in Pakistan as a Muslim is. I don't know what all this confusion is all about, I've answered this in Post # 396.

---------- Post added at 03:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 PM ----------




metro said:


> Oh my god. They call it Constitution.
> No wonder Minorities are already on a run from that country.


 
Don't worry, the minorities of Pakistan don't have to suffer the regular genocides that the Indian minorities have to face by the Indian government .


----------



## metro

bilalhaider said:


> Don't worry, Pakistan doesn't kill thousands of minorities in Pakistan like your government kills thousands of Muslims, Sikhs, Christians. Sad that this is the secular India Indians are so crazy about, tskkk tskkk... Shame on the Hindutva Saffron band extremists.


 
Haha.. but you have a draconian Constitution that treats Sikhs like animals.
Even if they are killed or forced to pay Jizya that is not considered illegal, after-all its in your Constitution.

U didn't answer me, why a Sikh cant be a PM or President in your country ?


----------



## AvidSpice

bilalhaider said:


> Don't worry, Pakistan doesn't kill thousands of minorities in Pakistan like your government kills thousands of Muslims, Sikhs, Christians. Sad that this is the secular India Indians are so crazy about, tskkk tskkk... Shame on the Hindutva Saffron band extremists.


 
Anything of value? Any info? Anything will do? Pleej!


----------



## KS

Kakgeta said:


> No, the Khalistan movt is dead, long gone, finished. What I don't get is then why hold this discussion in the first place. You may have noted that the OP is an Indian and the guys who took it away to loonyland are all newbies...................
> As for the links, they carry no evidence which implicates Pak Army in these killings. This is the handy work of the BLA. Just yesterday they stopped a passenger bus, doused it in petrol and set it on fire, killing 15 innocent people. It is their job to create insecurity in Balochistan so that a military presence can be maintained there and they can conveniently blame their dirty work on the army. I wrote a thesis on this too. If I am allowed permission, I will post it for you.....


 
The OP was a response to a false flag pretending to be an Indian and spamming with Khalistan threads.

And please dont utterly deny that FC or ISI doesnt do the 'things' in B'stan. Or do you say that the Nationalist Balochis who want self rule are kidnapped and killed by BLA who themselves want Separation from Pakistan. Doesn't make sense.

Note that I'm not supporting the Balochis here, but just saying we both have skeletons in our cupboard and its does not make sense pointing India.


----------



## metro

bilalhaider said:


> I've said that besides being elected as a President/PM, a non-Muslim is entitled to hold any office in Pakistan as a Muslim is. I don't know what all this confusion is all about, I've answered this in Post # 396.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 03:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry, the minorities of Pakistan don't have to suffer the regular genocides that the Indian minorities have to face by the Indian government.


 
Come on,,, dont run away from the question. 
i asked you why a Sikh cant become a PM or President in your country ?
Do you think Sikhs are lesser humans than you or they are less Intelligent than you ?

Dont avoid this question.


----------



## 53fd

metro said:


> Haha.. but you have a draconian Constitution that treats Sikhs like animals.
> Even if they are killed or forced to pay Jizya that is not considered illegal, after-all its in your Constitution.


 
I think those 15000 Sikhs your government killed would have rather paid Jizya if they had the choice


----------



## KS

bilalhaider said:


> I've said that *besides* being elected as a President/PM, a non-Muslim is entitled to hold any office in Pakistan as a Muslim is. I don't know what all this confusion is all about, I've answered this in Post # 396..


 
What is that besides ? Besides it self is a sign of Govt. authorized discrimination.

I can also say Besides 1984 there was no riots on Sikhs.

There you go. Thread closed.



bilalhaider said:


> I think those *15000* Sikhs your government killed would have rather paid Jizya if they had the choice


 
Where did you take that number out from ? The place where the sun never shines ?


----------



## metro

bilalhaider said:


> I think those 15000 Sikhs your government killed would have rather paid Jizya if they had the choice


 
What ..??
So you means to Sikhs being forced to pay Jizya for their survival is completely justified ?
Dont you have an ounce of humanity man ?
Dont you feel awkward while justifying such draconian laws..??
You dont have any answer as to why sikhs cant be ruler in your country ?


----------



## AvidSpice

In the midst of this mess, the thread starter, Khalistani Patriot has disappeared somewhere.   It seems he couldn't take it anymore. 

How very patriotic.


----------



## metro

Avishekh said:


> In the midst of this mess, the thread starter, Khalistani Patriot has disappeared somewhere.   It seems he couldn't take it anymore.
> 
> How very patriotic.


 I think he went to collect this week's Jizya from the nearby sikh colony.


----------



## PlanetWarrior

bilalhaider said:


> I think those 15000 Sikhs your government killed would have rather paid Jizya if they had the choice


 
And how many minorities did your country kill since it was allowed to be formed ? Do you know the numbers? Go check it up. By the way why are you skirting the question? Are Sikhs and other minorities not regarded as humans in Pakistan that they cant aspire to be leaders of their country? Even in your adopted country USA, a minority has become President. Do you think that your country Pakistan's constitution is fair to its minorities by treating them as foreigners?


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## Swati Shukla

Manas said:


> T*hats right,i'm sure my 10th or 12th(+2) board exam certificates from the state of Orissa doesn't carries column for religion.It doesn't quote my religion as Hindu.*


 
True.. I doubt he is A Sikh or even an Indian..!


----------



## ranveer

Karthic Sri said:


> What is that besides ? Besides it self is a sign of Govt. authorized discrimination.
> 
> I can also say Besides 1984 there was no riots on Sikhs.
> 
> There you go. Thread closed.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you take that number out from ? The place where the sun never shines ?


 
Kartic cant reply to ur pm as i have less number of posts...
but the article itself shows what i am saying about religion based discrimination and politico games...be it any religion...
wouldnt u agree on that...


----------



## metro

The troll has been owned.
For the time being lets enjoy this video.


----------



## ranveer

Swati Shukla said:


> True.. I doubt he is A Sikh or even an Indian..!


 
Swati if that was for me...pm me ur email and if am right u would have to agree on this forum with me..


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## metro

xxxxxxxxxxx


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## Swati Shukla

ranveer said:


> Sri with all due respect....i understand what ur saying on Hindu Marraige Act but wont u agree on calling it either Hindustan Marraige act or Indian marraige act then...Sir u would probably not understand this from my point of view...
> 
> Could u plz also explain Article 25 of the constitution as well...
> 
> What i find amazing is that we are talking of Abrahamic religions.... Sir, it would have been better for our country to recognize Indic things first then going after Abrahamic first..same like we are sometimes more british than Idians..


 Rename it as Sikh marriage Act. We don't have any problem..!


----------



## KS

ranveer said:


> Kartic cant reply to ur pm as i have less number of posts...
> but the article itself shows what i am saying about *religion based discrimination and politico games*...be it any religion...
> wouldnt u agree on that...


 
I agree. But my intention was not on arguing whether reservation itself was good or bad but just wanted to show you that though the Sikhs as a religion are counted as minorities separate from Hindus, they also enjoy the benefits of reservation.


----------



## ranveer

Nalwa said:


> Ranveer, what did you enter as your religion in the census form? If there was a provision for Sikhism in the form then the govt. recognizes it. Lets not rest all the recognition on one act. I agree with you that a Sikh marriage act is needed but lets not attach more connotations to the issue than it deserves. Rest, this is an endless debate.


 
bhai saab jee,,i am sorry if am sounding naive...census form is something i dont remember on personally ticking any religion...yeh but what i know of census is that i would always say sikh as a religion and there is no option that u tick where it is mentioned hindu,islam, sikh , christian, etc...but still i would always say that the constitution is above the census form....
agree this is endless debate... but then some posters in the beginning of this thread have been rather casual on sikhs...


----------



## ranveer

metro said:


> No ranveer, that wasnt for you, that comment of Swati's was for the thread starter. I think you are on handset.


 
no yaar,,,another internet warrior with no work in office today...and prbbly some ppl in the starting pages turned me on..


----------



## ranveer

Karthic Sri said:


> I agree. But my intention was not on arguing whether reservation itself was good or bad but just wanted to show you that though the Sikhs as a religion are counted as minorities separate from Hindus, they also enjoy the benefits of reservation.


 
yaar, then what abt the constitution,,,is it not supposed to be the holy grail....wont all these be after that and not before that..


----------



## KS

ranveer said:


> bhai saab jee,,i am sorry if am sounding naive...census form is something i dont remember on personally ticking any religion...yeh but what i know of census is that i would always say sikh as a religion and there is no option that u tick where it is mentioned hindu,islam, sikh , christian, etc...but still i would always say that the constitution is above the census form....
> agree this is endless debate... but then some posters in the beginning of this thread have been rather casual on sikhs...


 
Dude the Article 25 which you quote *itself* says in the foot note that the word "Hindu" is hereby used to denote all the four Indic religions - Hinduism,Sikhism,Jainism and Buddhism.

It was just a convenient practise as all the four religions' marriage ceremonies are similar to an extent and none of them had already exisiting codified laws.

I cant believe I am arguing for a Marriage law, but if it given you any amount of solace, note that I am in support of it if the Sikhs demand it.



ranveer said:


> yaar, then what abt the constitution,,,is it not supposed to be the holy grail....wont all these be after that and not before that..


 
Forgive me. I'm not interested in this debate based on a marriage law anymore. I have to the best of my abilities tried to explain to you that this was just for convenience sake and with no extra meaning as the four religions have some similarities in their marriage rituals. But you cling on to that one act and think Sikhism is in danger.



ranveer said:


> no yaar,,,another internet warrior with no work in office today...and prbbly some ppl in the starting pages turned me on..


 
Who turned you on ? 

Not one Indian has said anything bad about Sikhs here.


----------



## ranveer

Swati Shukla said:


> Rename it as Sikh marriage Act. We don't have any problem..!


 
Thanx atleast i would have one vote...


----------



## Nalwa

ranveer said:


> bhai saab jee,,i am sorry if am sounding naive...census form is something i dont remember on personally ticking any religion...yeh but what i know of census is that i would always say sikh as a religion and there is no option that u tick where it is mentioned hindu,islam, sikh , christian, etc...but still i would always say that the constitution is above the census form....
> agree this is endless debate... but then some posters in the beginning of this thread have been rather casual on sikhs...


 
You take a vote here and I am sure all non-Sikh Indians here would agree to the Sikh Marriage act or are at least open to a debate on it. The casual approach to Sikhism is but a trait of the very few who are ill-informed.

I think we need to work within our community. I dont remember any Sikh politician or SGPC jathedar taking out a rally in demand for the act. Lets build enough mass support around it within the Sikh community and then we can blame the constitution.


----------



## KS

Nalwa said:


> You take a vote here and I am sure all non-Sikh Indians here would agree to the Sikh Marriage act or are at least open to a debate on it.


 
Actually I dont get.

Is there anything in the Act that is actually opposite to teachings of Sikhs, offensive words etc that you guys want another Act or is it just the name ?


----------



## Nalwa

Karthic Sri said:


> Actually I dont get.
> 
> Is there anything in the Act that is actually opposite to teachings of Sikhs, offensive words etc that you guys want another Act or is it just the name ?


 
Its just the name actually, and the constitutional recognition that comes with it. You see, the demand has much deeper roots. If you were to analyze the Sikh psychic, its very fearful for the loss of identity (ill-founded you might say). After all, the community have fought wars and lost lives (right uptill the modern age), so there seems to be an ever present danger to its existence. It is this psychic that is affected by the lack of a Sikh-marriage act.

Our festivities and religious processions that include a display of martial prowess (you must have seen pics of warrior Nihang Sikhs practicing martial arts during processions) alludes in a way to this very sentiment of fight against the dangers to the religion. I might be reading too much into it, but its just my psycho-analysis as a Sikh.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## KS

Nalwa said:


> *Its just the name actually*, and the constitutional recognition that comes with it. You see, the demand has much deeper roots. If you were to analyze the Sikh psychic, its very fearful for the loss of identity (ill-founded you might say). After all, the community have fought wars and lost lives (right uptill the modern age), so there seems to be an ever present danger to its existence. It is this psychic that is affected by the lack of a Sikh-marriage act.
> 
> Our festivities and religious processions that include a display of martial prowess (you must have seen pics of warrior Nihang Sikhs practicing martial arts during processions) alludes in a way to this very sentiment of fight against the dangers to the religion. I might be reading too much into it, but its just my psycho-analysis as a Sikh.


 
Then change it to Sikh Marriage Act or Punjab Marriage Act for all I care.

I am more worried about the girl I'm getting married to than the name of the Act under which I'm marrying


----------



## ranveer

Karthic Sri said:


> Dude the Article 25 which you quote *itself* says in the foot note that the word "Hindu" is hereby used to denote all the four Indic religions - Hinduism,Sikhism,Jainism and Buddhism.



I dont know abt where the term Indic and Abrahamic religion are coined from...didnt see that in constitution

The Article 25 as below

"Freedom of conscience and free profession, practice and propagation of religion -

(1) Subject to public order, morality and health and to the other provisions of this Part, all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right freely to profess, practice and propagate religion.

(2) Nothing in this article shall affect the operation of any existing law or prevent the State from making any law -

(a) regulating or restricting any economic, political or other secular activity which may be associated with religious practice;

(b) providing for social welfare and reform or the throwing open of Hindu religious institutions of a public character to all classes and sections of Hindus.

Explanation I  The wearing and carrying of kirpans shall be deemed to be included in the profession of the Sikh religion.

Explanation II  In sub-Clause (b) of clause (2), the reference to Hindus shall be construed as including a reference to persons professing the Sikh, Jaina or Buddhist religion, and the reference to Hindu religious institutions shall be construed accordingly."




Explanations I and II are not even remotely connected with Clause 2b. The fact is that both Explanations I and II urgently call for explanation of their own. Explanation I acknowledges the existence of the Sikh religion. Moreover, Explanation II is notoriously flawed. Its intent is obvious: the individual members of Sikh, Jain, and Buddhist religions will be referred to as Hindus, and Sikhism, Jainism, and Buddhism are to be considered merely sects of Hinduism. Therefore, the state can interfere with their religious institutions as it sees fit, under the guise of procuring "social reforms.





Karthic Sri said:


> *It was just a convenient practise as all the four religions' marriage ceremonies are similar to an extent and none of them had already exisiting codified laws.*
> 
> I cant believe I am arguing for a Marriage law, but if it given you any amount of solace, note that I am in support of it if the Sikhs demand it.
> 
> 
> 
> Forgive me. I'm not interested in this debate based on a marriage law anymore. I have to the best of my abilities tried to explain to you that this was just for convenience sake and with no extra meaning as the four religions have some similarities in their marriage rituals. But you cling on to that one act and think Sikhism is in danger.



Sir, all four religions have very different rituals,, atleast for Sikhs even for Jains and buddhists i can say its very different and its very well coded by the SGPC for sikhs...I dont think it if for simplicity otherwise our rules and regulations would have been very simple and our tax payers money would have been saved to a lot of extent..
sry for getting u in this debate but yeh i would have not liked to debate on a marraige law much on it either....


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## ranveer

Nalwa said:


> You take a vote here and I am sure all non-Sikh Indians here would agree to the Sikh Marriage act or are at least open to a debate on it. The casual approach to Sikhism is but a trait of the very few who are ill-informed.
> 
> I think we need to work within our community. I dont remember any Sikh politician or SGPC jathedar taking out a rally in demand for the act. Lets build enough mass support around it within the Sikh community and then we can blame the constitution.



bhai sab jee,,, agree with u 100%,,,fault lies within..


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## KS

@Ranveer ;

Arey bhai see this in your article itself ;

*Explanation I *&#8211; The wearing and carrying of kirpans shall be deemed to be included in the profession of the *Sikh religion*. -* Is this not the recognition you are asking ?*

*Explanation II *&#8211; In sub-Clause (b) of clause (2), the reference to Hindus shall be construed as including a reference to persons professing the Sikh, Jains or Buddhist religion, and the reference to Hindu religious institutions shall be construed accordingly." - *All four are generally refered to as Hindus for convenience sake.
*

BTW read my reply to Nalwa in the previous post:

I'm a Hindu and I dont care whether the Constitution recognizes me or not. My Faith is there to stay.


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## ranveer

Karthic Sri said:


> @Ranveer ;
> 
> Arey bhai see this in your article itself ;
> 
> *Explanation I *&#8211; The wearing and carrying of kirpans shall be deemed to be included in the profession of the *Sikh religion*. -* Is this not the recognition you are asking ?*
> 
> *Explanation II *&#8211; In sub-Clause (b) of clause (2), the reference to Hindus shall be construed as including a reference to persons professing the Sikh, Jains or Buddhist religion, and the reference to Hindu religious institutions shall be construed accordingly." - *
> *


*




All four are generally refered to as Hindus for convenience sake.????[/COLOR 
]sir do u think that the constitution of india was made with convinience sake in 3 yrs and then the amendments...


Click to expand...

*


>




Explanations I and II are not even remotely connected with Clause 2b. The fact is that both Explanations I and II urgently call for explanation of their own. *Explanation I acknowledges the existence of the Sikh religion.* Moreover, Explanation II is notoriously flawed. Its intent is obvious: t*he individual members of Sikh, Jain, and Buddhist religions will be referred to as Hindus, and Sikhism, Jainism, and Buddhism are to be considered merely sects of Hinduism.* 



Karthic Sri said:


> BTW read my reply to Nalwa in the previous post:
> 
> I'm a Hindu and I dont care whether the Constitution recognizes me or not. My Faith is there to stay.


 
Sir, then why bother,,,faith is here to stay,,, who gives damn to the constitution ,,,,then u start calling urself Sikh or Muslim from today...it doesnt matter...sry i might sound a bit of hardcore but its the other side of the coin and take it on urself and see....


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## KS

ranveer said:


> Explanations I and II are not even remotely connected with Clause 2b. The fact is that both Explanations I and II urgently call for explanation of their own. *Explanation I acknowledges the existence of the Sikh religion.* Moreover, Explanation II is notoriously flawed. Its intent is obvious: t*he individual members of Sikh, Jain, and Buddhist religions will be referred to as Hindus, and Sikhism, Jainism, and Buddhism are to be considered merely sects of Hinduism.*



Good that you are satisfied with Explanation I

Explanation II as it is given has no malafide intention to make Sikhism as a sect of Hinduism and is just a reference of convenience because if that was the intention the word "Sikh Religion" in Explanation I would have been omitted.



ranveer said:


> Sir, then why bother,,,faith is here to stay,,, who gives damn to the constitution ,,,,then u start calling urself Sikh or Muslim from today...it doesnt matter...sry i might sound a bit of hardcore but its the other side of the coin and take it on urself and see....


 
You are not understanding a word of what I'm trying to say bro. It means I care the least for what the Constitution supposedly says or does not say about religion.And it seems you are also not willing to listen.

While preparing such a huge constitution you cant be writing Hindus,Sikhs,Buddhists and Jains each and every time the words are mentioned and for convenience sake the one word Hindu is used to refer to all four.

*It does not mean Sikhs, Buddhists or Jains are sects of Hinduism*. Sigh.


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## justanobserver

ranveer said:


> bhai saab jee,,i am sorry if am sounding naive...c*ensus form is something i dont remember on personally ticking any religion*...yeh but what i know of census is that i would always say sikh as a religion and there is no option that u tick where it is mentioned hindu,islam, sikh , christian, etc...but still i would always say that the constitution is above the census form....
> agree this is endless debate... but then some posters in the beginning of this thread have been rather casual on sikhs...


 
Census 2011 form had religion AFAIK. I remember ticking 'Jain'

edit: This is from the official census website



> Religion returns in Indian census provide a wonderful kaleidoscope of the country s rich social composition, as many religions have originated in the country and few religions of foreign origin have also flourished here. India has the distinction of being the land from where important religions namely Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism and Jainism have originated at the same time the country is home to several indigenous faiths tribal religions which have survived the influence of major religions for centuries and are holding the ground firmly Regional con-existence of diverse religious groups in the country makes it really unique and the epithet unity in diversity is brought out clearly in the Indian Census.
> 
> *Ever since its inception, the Census of India has been collecting and publishing information about the religious affiliations as expressed by the people of India.* In fact, population census has the rate distinction of being the only instrument that collets the information son this diverse and important characteristic of the Indian population.



http://censusindia.gov.in/Census_And_You/religion.aspx


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## jdme

Indian trolls battling Pakistani troll? I see no other reason to engage billaltroll (clever right).


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## Swati Shukla

ranveer said:


> Thanx atleast i would have one vote...


 
yeah please.. rename it as sikh marriage act and make hinduism as a sect of sikhism or jainism or buddism. i dont have any problem. my mind is not that narrow. I Love sikhism, jainism and buddism just like hinduism. For me these are also my own religion just like hinduism.


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## toxic_pus

ranveer said:


> I dont know abt where the term Indic and Abrahamic religion are coined from...didnt see that in constitution
> 
> The Article 25 as below
> 
> "Freedom of conscience and free profession, practice and propagation of religion -
> 
> (1) Subject to public order, morality and health and to the other provisions of this Part, all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right freely to profess, practice and propagate religion.
> 
> (2) Nothing in this article shall affect the operation of any existing law or prevent the State from making any law -
> 
> (a) regulating or restricting any economic, political or other secular activity which may be associated with religious practice;
> 
> (b) providing for social welfare and reform or the throwing open of Hindu religious institutions of a public character to all classes and sections of Hindus.
> 
> Explanation I  The wearing and carrying of kirpans shall be deemed to be included in the profession of the Sikh religion.
> 
> Explanation II  In sub-Clause (b) of clause (2), the reference to Hindus shall be construed as including a reference to persons professing the Sikh, Jaina or Buddhist religion, and the reference to Hindu religious institutions shall be construed accordingly."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Explanations I and II are not even remotely connected with Clause 2b. The fact is that both Explanations I and II urgently call for explanation of their own. Explanation I acknowledges the existence of the Sikh religion. Moreover, Explanation II is notoriously flawed. Its intent is obvious: the individual members of Sikh, Jain, and Buddhist religions will be referred to as Hindus, and Sikhism, Jainism, and Buddhism are to be considered merely sects of Hinduism. Therefore, the state can interfere with their religious institutions as it sees fit, under the guise of procuring "social reforms.


Article 25 creates this confusion because of the use of archiac legal language, which is difficult for a layman to properly interprete. This also helps the mischiefmakers.

Anyway.

Article 25(2)(b) was actually meant to provide protection to the dalits and also several sects of Hinduism etc. It empowered the Govt. to intervene where, for example, any public religious institution tried to bar the lower caste Hindus from accessing their facilities (e.g. right to worship in a temple). It also empowers a citizen of India to seek relief from Supreme Court where his religious right is defected (Article 25 as a whole does that). Initially it was restricted to Hindus because of obvious reasons. It was later deemed necessary to extend this protection to the Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists. Explanation II was inserted to give that effect, whereby, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists were to be considered to be 'Hindus' only for the purpose of this Article, so that what is applicable to the Hindus can now be applied to these religions as well.

If the article is read in correct manner in which it was meant to be read, it would read like this:

(2) Nothing in this article shall affect the operation of any existing law or prevent the State from making any law: 
(a) ....
(b) providing for social welfare and reform or the throwing open of _Hindu, Sikh, Jain and Buddhist_ religious institutions of a public character to all classes and sections of _these religions_.​This would of course remove the need of Explanation II. In fact this was recommended by Supreme Court, as recently as 2010, in a case vs Joginder Singh Sethi.

Explanation I actually confers special rights to Sikhs allowing them to carry Kirpan, even in places where bearing of arms is prohibited, e.g. a bank. Explanation I is obviously not connected to 2(b). Neither does it claim to be, nor does it need to be. Explanation I relates to the main body of the Article which states '_free profession, practice and propagation of religion_'. 



> Sir, all four religions have very different rituals,, atleast for Sikhs even for Jains and buddhists i can say its very different and its very well coded by the SGPC for sikhs...I dont think it if for simplicity otherwise our rules and regulations would have been very simple and our tax payers money would have been saved to a lot of extent..
> sry for getting u in this debate but yeh i would have not liked to debate on a marraige law much on it either....


There is nothing in Hindu Marriage Act that prevents a Sikh from performing his/her exclusive rituals. I do agree though that this Act needs to be gone.

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## KS

^ Are you a lawyer ?


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## Ajaxpaul

Oh now the tread has become the Diaries of Khalistan


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## indianpatriot

Some Hindus worship Sai Baba as their supreme lord who says "Malik EK" or one god...he supports some aspects of Vedas and ignore some.
Some Hindu completely deny Vedas and practice their indigenous scriptures.
Some Hindus worship only Krishna and consider Gita above Vedas-ISKON .
Some Hindus worship Buddha as a Hindu god denying Vedas but call themselves Hindus.
Some Hindus are atheists.
Some Hindus are Arya Samajis.........so Hinduism is practically not a religion because it doesnot have a singe founder or prophet.Its actually a collection of various school of thoughts.Some have evolved so much that they are now RELIGIONS in a trues sense but still Hinduism is not a religion..its a PseudoReligion.

Hinduism is the predominant religious tradition[1] of South Asia. Hinduism is often referred to as San&#257;tana Dharma (a Sanskrit phrase meaning "the eternal law") by its adherents.[2][3] Generic "types" of Hinduism that attempt to accommodate a variety of complex views span folk and Vedic Hinduism to bhakti tradition, as in Vaishnavism. Hinduism also includes yogic traditions and a wide spectrum of "daily morality" based on the notion of karma and societal norms such as Hindu marriage customs.

_Hinduism is formed of diverse traditions and has no single founder.[4] Among its roots is the historical Vedic religion of Iron Age India, and as such Hinduism is often called the "oldest living religion"[5] or the "oldest living major religion".

It was only towards the end of the 18th century that the European merchants and colonists referred collectively to the followers of Indian religions as Hindus. Eventually, *it came to define a precisely religious identity that includes any person of Indian origin who neither practiced Abrahamic religions nor non-Vedic Indian religions, such as Jainism, Buddhism, Sikhism, or tribal (Adivasi) religions,* thereby encompassing* a wide range of religious beliefs and practices related to San&#257;tana Dharma*.[18][19]

*The term Hinduism was introduced into the English language in the 19th century to denote the religious, philosophical, and cultural traditions native to India.*
_

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## Icarus

Karthic Sri said:


> The OP was a response to a false flag pretending to be an Indian and spamming with Khalistan threads.
> 
> And please dont utterly deny that FC or ISI doesnt do the 'things' in B'stan. Or do you say that the Nationalist Balochis who want self rule are kidnapped and killed by BLA who themselves want Separation from Pakistan. Doesn't make sense.
> 
> Note that I'm not supporting the Balochis here, but just saying we both have skeletons in our cupboard and its does not make sense pointing India.


 
I'm not saying that our hands are totally clean, but guys picked up by agencies are not killed, they are held until furthur notice. Most Baloch parties wnat seperation but are still open to dialogue. BLA persecutes them, deriving two benefits out of their treatment of political activists.
1) To scare other parties into withdrawing the dialogue option.
2) To create a feeling of insecurity among the people.


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## JayAtl

why would anyone want a country where the 1/2 of the name means " empty" ( j/k)


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## DesiGuy

khalistan was pure BS.....all were killed by BALWANT SINGH.......!!!!!


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## desioptimist

Nalwa said:


> You take a vote here and I am sure all non-Sikh Indians here would agree to the Sikh Marriage act or are at least open to a debate on it. The casual approach to Sikhism is but a trait of the very few who are ill-informed.
> 
> I think we need to work within our community. I dont remember any Sikh politician or SGPC jathedar taking out a rally in demand for the act. Lets build enough mass support around it within the Sikh community and then we can blame the constitution.


 
What I understand from all these discussion, the change of name is basically because of identity politics, the same reason calcutta became kolkata or bombay became mumbai.
Renaming may not bring anything substantial, but it will certainly make sikhs feel good, at least those who are demanding.
If enough sikhs demand it, I am sure separate line could be added to constitution to make it more clear. I definitely support it.


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## desioptimist

red_baron said:


> in other threads relating to Sikh massacre of 1984 and operation shudi karan 1984(raping sikh women to alter their genetic makeup) indians are denying something of this sort happened and here you are accepting it and calling for punishment of guilty


 
I dont think you can change anybody's genetic makeup by rape.
Anyway, what is your point? I am not Indian? Is my post different from my post there?


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## 53fd

Karthic Sri said:


> Sarmila Bose, the joke of a Bengali whose blogs have been de-bunked many times over by both Bangladeshi and Indian Bengalis alike.
> 
> You might as well quoted Zion Hamid to support your argument.


 
No independent UN investigation has ever been done to verify the 3 million figure. No Pakistani Army official or the Pakistani Army has been charged with war crimes in the international court of justice. If the UN reported human rights violations in Sri Lanka despite Sri Lanka not letting them into their country, why didn't the UN or any independent organization ever verify these figures? 

Also, it is not possible for the Pakistani Army to kill 3 million people in 10 months with 350,000 troops against India's 500,000 troops & 100,000 Mukti Bahinis during the war. If Pakistan managed to kill 3 million people in 10 months with 350,000 troops, how many Kashmiris would have 700,000 Indian troops killed from 1947 to 2011? They would have probably wiped off the whole population, not just the Kashmiris, if you apply the same kill rate for the Indian Army that you did for the Pakistani Army in 1971.

The US has killed 1 million Iraqis since 2003. If the US managed to kill 1 million people in 8 years, how did the Pakistani Army of 350,000 troops manage to kill 3 million people, that too against 500,000 Indian troops & 100,000 Mukti Bahini? You are clearly delusional, at a point of no getting back.


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## Roybot

How is India killing Khalistani separatists any different from Pakistan bombing Balochi separatists

India and Pakistan is here to say. Both countries are militarily strong enough to quash any separatist movements.

/Thread.


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## red_baron

desioptimist said:


> I agree. If there is demand, we should have separate law. Why not.


 
after mass killings and raping their women and altering their genetics you are offering them a separate law


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## jayron

red_baron said:


> after mass killings and raping their women and altering their genetics you are offering them a separate law


 
sorry we made them unacceptable to you by adulterating their genes with less fairer kinds. Please tightly safeguard your gene pool. Thats the only thing you got.


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## red_baron

jayron said:


> sorry we made them unacceptable to you by adulterating their genes with less fairer kinds. Please tightly safeguard your gene pool. Thats the only thing you got.


 
u just admitted operation shudi karan 1984 took place...which your fellow indians are denying


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## Marwari

red_baron said:


> u just admitted operation shudi karan 1984 took place...which your fellow indians are denying


 
Can't claim something without proof......


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## Awesome

I've bundled together all the threads on the Khalistan movement. One thread is enough, please post everything here.


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## notsuperstitious

bilalhaider said:


> Also, it is not possible for the Pakistani Army to kill 3 million people in 10 months with 350,000 troops against India's 500,000 troops & 100,000 Mukti Bahinis during the war. If Pakistan managed to kill 3 million people in 10 months with 350,000 troops, how many Kashmiris would have 700,000 Indian troops killed from 1947 to 2011? They would have probably wiped off the whole population, not just the Kashmiris, if you apply the same kill rate for the Indian Army that you did for the Pakistani Army in 1971.
> 
> The US has killed 1 million Iraqis since 2003. If the US managed to kill 1 million people in 8 years, how did the Pakistani Army of 350,000 troops manage to kill 3 million people, that too against 500,000 Indian troops & 100,000 Mukti Bahini? You are clearly delusional, at a point of no getting back.


 
Assuming the kill rate of different wars and situations to be the same, particularly of genocides is as logical as you get. You calling others delusional is a compliment.

And you yourself claimed 1 million biharis killed by 100 thousand mukti bahini sometime back on the same thread.

Delusional, you bet.

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## KS

bilalhaider said:


> No independent UN investigation has ever been done to verify the 3 million figure. No Pakistani Army official or the Pakistani Army has been charged with war crimes in the international court of justice. If the UN reported human rights violations in Sri Lanka despite Sri Lanka not letting them into their country, why didn't the UN or any independent organization ever verify these figures?



The Blood telegrams are enough proof of the genocide. No need to break your sweat.Or should I post the Blood Telegrams again here where it was describes as a gruesome genocide of Bengalis ?



bilalhaider said:


> Also, it is not possible for the Pakistani Army to kill 3 million people in 10 months with 350,000 troops against India's 500,000 troops & 100,000 Mukti Bahinis during the war. If Pakistan managed to kill 3 million people in 10 months with 350,000 troops, how many Kashmiris would have 700,000 Indian troops killed from 1947 to 2011? They would have probably wiped off the whole population, not just the Kashmiris, if you apply the same kill rate for the Indian Army that you did for the Pakistani Army in 1971.



The Indians are not there to kill, but to provide security from Pak based jihadis.But Op.Search Light was a pure Bengali hunter-killer mission.



bilalhaider said:


> The US has killed 1 million Iraqis since 2003. If the US managed to kill 1 million people in 8 years, how did the Pakistani Army of 350,000 troops manage to kill 3 million people, that too against 500,000 Indian troops & 100,000 Mukti Bahini? You are clearly delusional, at a point of no getting back.


 
Poor US. Need some training from the Pakistan Army. 

Are you a fool to suggest the motives of both the US in Iraq and West Pak Army when it launched Op.Search Light was the same ?


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## Nalwa

desioptimist said:


> What I understand from all these discussion, the change of name is basically because of identity politics, the same reason calcutta became kolkata or bombay became mumbai.
> Renaming may not bring anything substantial, but it will certainly make sikhs feel good, at least those who are demanding.
> If enough sikhs demand it, I am sure separate line could be added to constitution to make it more clear. I definitely support it.


 
I would say you do not understand it yet. Please read my reply to Kartik below - 



> Its just the name actually, and the constitutional recognition that comes with it. You see, the demand has much deeper roots. If you were to analyze the Sikh psychic, its very fearful for the loss of identity (ill-founded you might say). After all, the community have fought wars and lost lives (right uptill the modern age), so there seems to be an ever present danger to its existence. It is this psychic that is affected by the lack of a Sikh-marriage act.
> 
> Our festivities and religious processions that include a display of martial prowess (you must have seen pics of warrior Nihang Sikhs practicing martial arts during processions) alludes in a way to this very sentiment of fight against the dangers to the religion. I might be reading too much into it, but its just my psycho-analysis as a Sikh.

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## desioptimist

Nalwa said:


> I would say you do not understand it yet. Please read my reply to Kartik below -


 
I understand sir. It is still psychological, it is not as if sikhs are not accepted as separate religion, but a specific line in specific part of constitution can be made clearer and remove unnecessary fear. I am all for that.

The procession is mostly due to the tradition of doing so rather than any specific psychological reason. If the tradition was to carry a procession of pink rabbits, you will be doing it too.


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## 53fd

fateh71 said:


> Assuming the kill rate of different wars and situations to be the same, particularly of genocides is as logical as you get. You calling others delusional is a compliment.
> 
> And you yourself claimed 1 million biharis killed by 100 thousand mukti bahini sometime back on the same thread.
> 
> Delusional, you bet.


 
Mukti Bahini started killing Biharis a long time before the 1971 war. In fact, many people at the time said that the Pakistani Army came in too late to save East Pakistan.


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## Ammyy

bilalhaider said:


> Mukti Bahini started killing Biharis a long time before the 1971 war.


 
proof of this stupid claim 

Please dnt put Rupee news type article


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## 53fd

Karthic Sri said:


> The Blood telegrams are enough proof of the genocide. No need to break your sweat.Or should I post the Blood Telegrams again here where it was describes as a gruesome genocide of Bengalis ?



If the Blood Telegrams are enough proof of a genocide, *why isn't the Pakistani Army or any of the accused Pakistani Army Officials at the time tried & convicted of war crimes? Why hasn't the UN verified that 3 million Bengalis had been killed?* Most of the telegrams were fabrications by India & Bangladesh post December 1971, showing the pictures of dead Biharis as Bengalis.


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## 53fd

DRDO said:


> proof of this stupid claim
> 
> Please dnt put Rupee news type article


 
The proof of this is 'Dead Reckoning' by Sarmila Bose. Read it.


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## Ammyy

bilalhaider said:


> The proof of this is 'Dead Reckoning' by Sarmila Bose. Read it.


 
their are thousand of proof that verify that your army kill thousand of Bengali and rape them but i think that's all propaganda and a article is more credible cause its against India ?????????? 

and its for you 
Bangladesh Demands Apology from Pakistan for 1971 Atrocities |


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## KS

bilalhaider said:


> If the Blood Telegrams are enough proof of a genocide, *why isn't the Pakistani Army or any of the accused Pakistani Army Officials at the time tried & convicted of war crimes? Why hasn't the UN verified that 3 million Bengalis had been killed?* Most of the telegrams were fabrications by India & Bangladesh post December 1971, showing the pictures of dead Biharis as Bengalis.


 
Because the US effectively watched your back and saved your country from Indian devastation ( West Pak) and prevented any UN related hassles.

The Blood Telegrams itself were a result of frustration among the embassy officials (Archer Blood) in Dacca over the US Govt's apathy towards the continuing genocide and selected killing of Hindus and Awamis by the West Pak Army and the affliated Al Badr,Al Shams groupies.

Remember you were real homies with the US that time.



bilalhaider said:


> The proof of this is 'Dead Reckoning' by Sarmila Bose. Read it.


 
Sarmila Bose is as credible as say, Zion Hamid. Go figure.


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## 53fd

DRDO said:


> their are thousand of proof that verify that your army kill thousand of Bengali and rape them but i think that's all propaganda and a article is more credible cause its against India ??????????
> 
> and its for you
> Bangladesh Demands Apology from Pakistan for 1971 Atrocities |


 
There is a difference between thousands & millions killed. No one verified a 3 million figure that the Bengalis claim. India played its part as well in trying to distort the historical facts of the time.


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## Ammyy

bilalhaider said:


> There is a difference between thousands & millions killed. No one verified a 3 million figure.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 06:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:13 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Come up with all the excuses you want, no one verified a 3 million figure.


 
so you are ready to accept about thousands ?????


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## KS

bilalhaider said:


> Come up with all the excuses you want, no one verified a 3 million figure.


 
Why should I come up with an excuse ? 

Your army was defeated and your country was split and we became the only country after WW II to create a new nation and supervise a complete and an abject surrender.That was enough for me.


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## 53fd

Karthic Sri said:


> Because the US effectively watched your back and saved your country from Indian devastation ( West Pak) and prevented any UN related hassles.
> 
> The Blood Telegrams itself were a result of frustration among the embassy officials (Archer Blood) in Dacca over the US Govt's apathy towards the continuing genocide and selected killing of Hindus and Awamis by the West Pak Army and the affliated Al Badr,Al Shams groupies.
> 
> Remember you were real homies with the US that time.


 
Come up with all the excuses you want, no one verified a 3 million figure that the Bengalis claim. India played its part as well in trying to distort the historical facts of the time.


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## 53fd

DRDO said:


> so you are ready to accept about thousands ?????


 
Of course there were thousands of people killed, there are people killed in a war, its an unfortunate part of war. Unfortunately, the Mukti Bahini killed a lot more people than the Pakistan Army did.


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## foxbat

Karthic Sri said:


> Why should I come up with an excuse ?
> 
> Your army was defeated and your country was split and we became the only country after WW II to create a new nation and supervise a complete and an abject surrender.That was enough for me.


 
Thats 90,000 excuses rolled into 1.. Right.. Doesnt the 90000 figure sound familiar ????


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## Ammyy

bilalhaider said:


> Of course there were thousands of people killed, there are people killed in a war, its an unfortunate part of war. Unfortunately, the Mukti Bahini killed a lot more people than the Pakistan Army did.


 
Why dnt you ask this question to Bangladeshi people who suffer who suffer because of your army ?????

Million figure come from Bangladesh. 

just go and ask to Bangladeshi people they will tell you who kill their parents and family


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## 53fd

foxbat said:


> Thats 90,000 excuses rolled into 1.. Right.. Doesnt the 90000 figure sound familiar ????


 
Does the 45% of the "integral part of your country" aka 'Kashmir' sound familiar? It's in Pakistan's control


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## 53fd

DRDO said:


> Why dnt you ask this question to Bangladeshi people who suffer who suffer because of your army ?????
> 
> Million figure come from Bangladesh.
> 
> just go and ask to Bangladeshi people they will tell you who kill their parents and family


 
Just because they say it doesn't mean the figure is true. No independent investigation by any agency has verified that figure. None of the Pakistani Army Officials at the time have been charged. The Pakistani Army has not been accused of war crimes. History is not written on figures, but established & verifiable facts. A lot of Bangladeshis have realized the brutalities committed by the Mukti Bahini, the Bengalis you call 'Razkaars'.


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## justanobserver

bilalhaider said:


> Does the 45% of the "integral part of your country" aka 'Kashmir' sound familiar? It's in Pakistan's control


 
Actually you guys attacked the poor defenseless pricey state of Kashmir at that point of time


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## 53fd

justanobserver said:


> Actually you guys attacked the poor defenseless pricey state of Kashmir at that point of time


 
But how do you feel that Pakistan has control over 45% of the "integral part of your country"? Even your maps show that Kashmir is an integral part of your country (you show the whole Kashmir as part of India), unfortunately the map shown in India does not take into account that 45% of the whole Kashmir you show is with Pakistan. And it says that in the Indian constitution as well.


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## Ammyy

bilalhaider said:


> But how do you feel that Pakistan has control over 45% of the "integral part of your country"? Even your maps show that Kashmir is an integral part of your country, unfortunately the map shown in India does not take into account that 45% of the whole Kashmir you show is with Pakistan


 
At-least we are not kicked on back 4 times for remaining 55%

Reactions: Like Like:
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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> Just because they say it doesn't mean the figure is true. No independent investigation by any agency has verified that figure. History is not written on figures, but established & verifiable facts.


You do realize, that it doesn't make any fundamental difference if the number is '3 million' or '1 million'. PA's barbarism is pretty well documented and all you have do is look in right places. And no, Sharmila Bose doesn't qualify.

There was a Bangaldesh Liberation thread which was locked by a mod when he failed to provide evidence of one claim that he made. You might want to look it up. This is not the thread for it.


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## foxbat

bilalhaider said:


> But how do you feel that Pakistan has control over 45% of the "integral part of your country"? Even your maps show that Kashmir is an integral part of your country, unfortunately the map shown in India does not take into account that 45% of the whole Kashmir you show is with Pakistan


 
Frankly, Not very Good. But other factors like our economic growth and internal issues like financial inequality, naxal problems keep our mind diverted. Once in a while due to convergence of situations the bad feeling spikes up and some times we act on it. But that happens only sometimes.. Last time it happened, we broke Pakistan into 2 parts and created a new country. Since then, we have been pretty busy with other stuff and lately USA asked us to let her do the dirty work and we obliged. Lets see how it goes..


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## Halwa

bilalhaider said:


> But how do you feel that Pakistan has control over 45% of the "integral part of your country"? Even your maps show that Kashmir is an integral part of your country (you show the whole Kashmir as part of India), unfortunately the map shown in India does not take into account that 45% of the whole Kashmir you show is with Pakistan. And it says that in the Indian constitution as well.


 
we feel bad that our Kashmir has become a hub for terrorists but sooner we are gonna take back our Kashmir and make it a safe place as rest of India...


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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> But how do you feel that Pakistan has control over 45% of the "integral part of your country"? Even your maps show that Kashmir is an integral part of your country (you show the whole Kashmir as part of India), unfortunately the map shown in India does not take into account that 45% of the whole Kashmir you show is with Pakistan. And it says that in the Indian constitution as well.


I feel nothing. The majority of so called '45%' was captured by Pakistan before Kashmir chose to become part of India. Only a Pakistani can be so proud of his country's naked irredentism.


----------



## justanobserver

bilalhaider said:


> But how do you feel that Pakistan has control over 45% of the "integral part of your country"?


 
Frankly, I couldn't care less.

But for a Pakistani this serves as some kind of a mental consolation, to make them believe they "won" some kind of war with India. 

Pakistan tries to make up it's insecurity about India size/might by bullying smaller nations. First Kashmir, then Bangladesh, then Afghanistan (now Baluchistan?)


----------



## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> You do realize, that it doesn't make any fundamental difference if the number is '3 million' or '1 million'.



It wasn't 1 million either. It was somewhere between 25,000-30,000. Deaths are an unfortunate part of war. The Mukti Bahini killed far more innocent civilians. 



> PA's barbarism is pretty well documented and all you have do is look in right places.



Most of the dead bodies shown were of the Bihari people killed by Mukti Bahini being shown as Bengalis.



> And no, Sharmila Bose doesn't qualify.



She was a student in Calcutta in 1971, she saw things first hand, took first hand accounts of the people at the time. 



> There was a Bangaldesh Liberation thread which was locked by a mod when* he failed to provide evidence of one claim that he made*. You might want to look it up. This is not the thread for it.


 
The point is, he failed to provide the evidence. Bangladesh has failed to provide the evidence that 3 million, or even 1 million Bengalis were killed by the Pakistan Army. The Pakistan Army has not been charged, convicted of war crimes, or crimes against humanity. Pakistan has always maintained that 25,000-30,000 people were killed in the war. Casualties are a part of war. The onus of the proof lies on Bangladesh to prove that 1 million or 3 million people were killed. There are many Bengalis today that are realizing the brutalities of the Mukti Bahini that killed Biharis, & showed their dead bodies as Bengalis. You call them 'Raazkaars'.


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## 53fd

DRDO said:


> At-least we are not kicked on back 4 times for remaining 55%


 
The remaining 55% is getting out of your control as well, which is why you have deployed 700,000 troops there. Kashmir is getting into the world's attention more & more with each passing day.


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## KS

bilalhaider said:


> Does the 45% of the "integral part of your country" aka 'Kashmir' sound familiar? It's in Pakistan's control


 


bilalhaider said:


> But how do you feel that Pakistan has control over 45% of the "integral part of your country"? Even your maps show that Kashmir is an integral part of your country (you show the whole Kashmir as part of India), unfortunately the map shown in India does not take into account that 45% of the whole Kashmir you show is with Pakistan. And it says that in the Indian constitution as well.


 
We feel nothing , as TP said, cos at the time of the invasion by Pakistani tribals Kashmir was an independent princely state and was not in the Indian Union.

The thing is how much have you captured after Kashmir acceded to India. Nothing.

But we created Bangladesh and captured Siachen.

BTW I know one thing - it must feel pretty impotent to give a part of the territory you claim as your own to your friend for the sake of 'friendship'. Shaksgam Valley anyone ?


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## Varad

bilalhaider said:


> The remaining 55% is getting out of your control as well, which is why you have deployed 700,000 troops there. Kashmir is getting into the world's attention more & more with each passing day.


 
Let it get all the world's attention. It still is going nowhere.


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## Varad

bilalhaider said:


> Does the 45% of the "integral part of your country" aka 'Kashmir' sound familiar? It's in Pakistan's control


 
Yes i remember and i do feel bad for the Pakistani soldiers who fought for it. After such hard work you still gifted some part of it to China. Does Shaksgam Valley sound familiar?


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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> It wasn't 1 million either. It was somewhere between 25,000-30,000. Deaths are an unfortunate part of war. The Mukti Bahini killed far more innocent civilians.
> 
> 
> Most of the dead bodies shown were of the Bihari people killed by Mukti Bahini being shown as Bengalis.


I see. Since I've been over this before, please search this forum. 



> She was a student in Calcutta in 1971, she saw things first hand, took first hand accounts of the people at the time.


She did just the opposite. She visited Pakistan, interviewed Pakistani personnel, sat in a library and wrote her account. Her stories have more holes than a fishing net. Then again, ignorance is bliss.



> The point is, he failed to provide the evidence. Bangladesh has failed to provide the evidence that 3 million, or even 1 million Bengalis were killed by the Pakistan Army. The Pakistan Army has not been charged, convicted of war crimes, or crimes against humanity. Pakistan has always maintained that 25,000-30,000 people were killed in the war. Casualties are a part of war. The onus of the proof lies on Bangladesh to prove that 1 million or 3 million people were killed. There are many Bengalis today that are realizing the brutalities of the Mukti Bahini that killed Biharis, & showed their dead bodies as Bengalis. You call them 'Raazkaars'.


Right. 

Before I disengage, PA hasn't been charged because GoP refused to try their officers in International Criminal Court. GoP even refused to co-operate with International Commission of Jurists. Guess why?

Oh, btw, UN, during those days was acting as US crony, and its role in Bangladesh war is considered as one of its many failures.


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## 53fd

Varad said:


> Yes i remember and i do feel bad for the Pakistani soldiers who fought for it. After such hard work you still gifted some part of it to China. *Does Shaksgam Valley sound familiar?*


 
Why are you repeating the things Karthic Sri has already said? Pakistan gave a part of your land out of its own will to China, doesn't that distress you? Pakistan still has pretty much the full 45% of that 'integral territory', so what if it gave China like 1% from it? And Pakistan is getting the favor back by having Chinese troops on the border area of 'Pakistan Occupied Kashmir' (the lingo India uses ), which troubles your media & your people all the time .


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## Varad

bilalhaider said:


> Why are you repeating the things Karthic Sri has already said? Pakistan gave a part of your land out of its own will to China, doesn't that distress you? Pakistan still has pretty much the full 45% of that 'integral territory', so what if it gave China like 1% from it? And Pakistan is getting the favor back by having Chinese troops on the border area of 'Pakistan Occupied Kashmir' (the lingo India uses ), which troubles your media & your people all the time .


 
Brother i would have been very distressed by the fact you gave our land to China but as it happened in history that in 1971 we stripped *147570 sq km of your land* i.e not disputed but your land  and forced you to surrender. Now lets take a look at the deal, in 1947 you took away 70000sq km of our land and gifted about 5000 sqkm to China. So seeing the overall scenario i am pretty much happy that we took twice the amount of land you took from us. See 1971 removed our distress
Also, your posts indicate that *you have come to terms that belongs to India.* Thats a good start. keep it going


----------



## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> She did just the opposite. She visited Pakistan, interviewed Pakistani personnel, sat in a library and wrote her account. Her stories have more holes than a fishing net. Then again, ignorance is bliss.



She wrote of the first hand accounts of people in Panchbibi, Rajshahi Division; as well as the Jessore District in Khulna Division at the time. She was a student studying in Calcutta at the time & experienced the 1971 events first hand. Stop fabricating stories. she interviewed the Pakistani personnel a lot lot later after the 1971 war. 



> Before I disengage, PA hasn't been charged because GoP refused to try their officers in International Criminal Court. GoP even refused to co-operate with International Commission of Jurists. Guess why?



Guess why the UN has accused the Sri Lankan government of war crimes, even though Sri Lanka refused to let UN investigators come into the country? Guess why the UN or anyone else did not verify the Bangladeshi claim of 3 million Bengalis being killed.* If the UN does not verify the figure, or Bangladesh's claim that war crimes have been committed by Pakistan, then why should Pakistan try its Army Officials?* As I said, stop being emotional & making excuses; the onus is on you to prove that 1 million or 3 million, or whatever ridiculous figure you come with against the Pakistani Army is correct & verifiable.


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## 53fd

Varad said:


> Brother i would have been very distressed by the fact you gave our land to China but as it happened in history that in 1971 we stripped *147570 sq km of your land* i.e not disputed but your land  and forced you to surrender. Now lets take a look at the deal, in 1947 you took away 70000sq km of our land and gifted about 5000 sqkm to China. So seeing the overall scenario i am pretty much happy that we took twice the amount of land you took from us. See 1971 removed our distress
> Also, your posts indicate that *you have come to terms that belongs to India.* Thats a good start. keep it going


 
But the Indian constitution says that 'Kashmir is an integral part of India.' How does it feel that Pakistan has 45% of that integral territory of yours, & you claim the part Pakistan has is *'Pakistan Occupied Kashmir'*? Pakistan is getting the favor it gave to China repaid with all the Chinese troops in 'Pakistan Occupied Kashmir' that your media is complaining about all the time


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## foxbat

bilalhaider said:


> But the Indian constitution says that 'Kashmir is an integral part of India.' How does it feel that Pakistan has 45% of that integral territory of yours, & you claim the part Pakistan has is *'Pakistan Occupied Kashmir'*? Pakistan is getting the favor it gave to China repaid with all the Chinese troops in 'Pakistan Occupied Kashmir' that media is complaining about all the time


 
DUDE.. I answered a few posts back how we feel about it..


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## 53fd

foxbat said:


> DUDE.. I answered a few posts back how we feel about it..


 
This is for your friend Varad.


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## xTra

bilalhaider said:


> But the Indian constitution says that 'Kashmir is an integral part of India.' How does it feel that Pakistan has 45% of that integral territory of yours, & you claim the part Pakistan has is *'Pakistan Occupied Kashmir'*? Pakistan is getting the favor it gave to China repaid with all the Chinese troops in 'Pakistan Occupied Kashmir' that media is complaining about all the time


 
Somebody told me it was Azad Kashmir.


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## foxbat

bilalhaider said:


> This is for your friend Varad.


 
any comments on how i feel about it


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## Varad

bilalhaider said:


> But the Indian constitution says that 'Kashmir is an integral part of India.'* How does it feel* that Pakistan has 45% of that integral territory of yours, & you claim the part Pakistan has is *'Pakistan Occupied Kashmir'*? Pakistan is getting the favor it gave to China repaid with all the Chinese troops in 'Pakistan Occupied Kashmir' that media is complaining about all the time


 
It actually feels good that the Indian Constitution has still not dropped as its integral part, and that is its official stand for AJK and Gilgit Baltistan. Regarding China, ask them to bring all their military, but still you wont be able to budge a thing.


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## Varad

xTra said:


> Somebody told me it was Azad Kashmir.


 
No they divided to AJK and Gilgit Baltistan.


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## 53fd

Varad said:


> It actually feels good that the Indian Constitution has still not dropped as its integral part, and that is its official stand for AJK and Gilgit Baltistan. Regarding China, ask them to bring all their military, but still you wont be able to budge a thing.


 
We don't want to budge into rest of the 55% of your integral territory, its happening by itself. Which is why you are desperate for a resolution, because your 700,000 troops are losing their grip on the remaining 55% .


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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> She wrote of the first hand accounts of people in Panchbibi, Rajshahi Division; as well as the Jessore District in Khulna Division at the time. She was a student studying in Calcutta at the time & experienced the 1971 events first hand. Stop fabricating stories. she interviewed the Pakistani personnel a lot lot later after the 1971 war.


How can someone studying in Calcutta, have 'first hand' experience of what was going on deep within East Pakistan, is beyond me. And why actual 'first hand' experience of Bangladeshis who actually managed to somehow escape Pakistani barbarism, don't count, is even more baffling. Perhaps you can explain. You would also do me a favour if you actually read her articles (there are 4, IIRC, published in Economic and Political Weekly). She has now come up with a book and I look forward to not reading it.



> Guess why the UN has accused the Sri Lankan government of war crimes, even though Sri Lanka refused to let UN investigators come into the country? Guess why the UN or anyone else did not verify the Bangladeshi claim of 3 million Bengalis being killed. As I said, stop being emotional & making excuses; the onus is on you to prove that 1 million or 3 million, or whatever ridiculous figure you come with against the Pakistani Army is correct & verifiable.


UN conducted the investigation flouting rules and so China and Russia prevented it from being officially accepted. I think I told you that UN was heavily lobbied by US to prevent an investigation. If Pakistan was so sure of itself why didn't it co-operate with ICJ?


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## 53fd

xTra said:


> Somebody told me it was Azad Kashmir.


 
And Pakistan doesn't consider Azad Jammu Kashmir as a part of Pakistan, it's considered an autonomous region


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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> But the Indian constitution says that 'Kashmir is an integral part of India.' How does it feel that Pakistan has 45% of that integral territory of yours, & you claim the part Pakistan has is *'Pakistan Occupied Kashmir'*? Pakistan is getting the favor it gave to China repaid with all the Chinese troops in 'Pakistan Occupied Kashmir' that media is complaining about all the time


Rarely do we come across people who actually gloat about their country's misdemeanor. Apparently doing illegal stuffs is a matter of pride in Pakistan. In your pointless pursuit to score points you are now saying that your country has no respect for international law. 

Bravo.


----------



## Varad

bilalhaider said:


> We don't want to budge into rest of the 55% of your integral territory, its happening by itself. Which is why you are desperate for a resolution, because your 700,000 troops are losing their grip on the remaining 55% .


 
No one is desparate for a resolution on official terms. We have long since stated it is our integral part. It is Pakistan's stance which has changed and now you want independence for whole of kashmir.  > you see brother we are *4 times the land size of you*.. so it does not bother us as much cause we have enough resources to generate economic growth for decades to come.
Regarding losing control of Kashmir, you have dreamt it for the past 63 years and are more than welocme to do so for another 63 years.


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## harshad

bilalhaider said:


> And Pakistan doesn't consider Azad Jammu Kashmir as a part of Pakistan, it's considered an autonomous region


 
yes autonomous(joke) but not interested in giving indipendence to kashmir


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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> How can someone studying in Calcutta, have 'first hand' experience of what was going on deep within East Pakistan, is beyond me.



Maybe because the Jessore district in the Khulna division that she wrote about in her book is right next to Calcutta?



> UN conducted the investigation flouting rules and so China and Russia prevented it from being officially accepted. I think I told you that UN was heavily lobbied by US to prevent an investigation. If Pakistan was so sure of itself why didn't it co-operate with ICJ?


 
The International Court of Justice never charged Pakistan with war crimes, so why should Pakistan co-operate with the International Commission of Jurists? The UN never charged Pakistan with war crimes, why should Pakistan co-operate with the International Commission of Jurists? The credibility of the UN is internationally acceptable, & they are the highest authority, so why should Pakistan be bothered by the hollow claims of Bengalis? Unfortunately, the claims by Bangladesh never substantiated.


----------



## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> I think I told you that UN was heavily lobbied by US to prevent an investigation. If Pakistan was so sure of itself why didn't it co-operate with ICJ?


 
India & Bangladesh were busy fabricating historical events & realities of the time, & Mukti Bahini were showing the dead bodies of Biharis that they killed themselves as Bengalis supposedly killed by the Pakistan Army; along with some of the other fabrications like the alleged rapes (the claims that were never substantiated of course).


----------



## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> Rarely do we come across people who actually gloat about their country's misdemeanor. Apparently doing illegal stuffs is a matter of pride in Pakistan. In your pointless pursuit to score points you are now saying that your country has no respect for international law.
> 
> Bravo.


 
No, Pakistan doesn't call Kashmir as part of India or Pakistan: it calls it disputed territory, not India's territory. India should be ashamed of the genocide of the Kashmiris they've been committing since 1947. India has no respect for international law, & has been committing crimes against humanity in Kashmir.


----------



## Ammyy

bilalhaider said:


> India & Bangladesh were busy fabricating historical events & realities of the time, & Mukti Bahini were showing the dead bodies of Biharis that they killed themselves as Bengalis supposedly killed by the Pakistan Army; along with some of the other fabrications like the alleged rapes (the claims that were never substantiated of course).


 
any thing else ?? 

and proof for this stupid claim


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## foxbat

foxbat said:


> any comments on how i feel about it


 
No! eh?? I thought so ...


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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> Rarely do we come across people who actually gloat about their country's misdemeanor. Apparently doing illegal stuffs is a matter of pride in Pakistan. *In your pointless pursuit to score points you are now saying that your country has no respect for international law.*
> 
> Bravo.


 
Funny you talk about international law, when it was India that sent its forces inside the territory of a sovereign nation; first in Jaffna, Sri Lanka to aid the LTTE terrorists against the Sri Lankan government; & then to aid the Mukti Bahini terrorists against Pakistan in East Pakistan. Pakistan has never sent its troops inside a sovereign nation's territory like India has. You're the last one that should be talking & lecturing others about international law because you clearly know nothing about it


----------



## Ammyy

bilalhaider said:


> No, Pakistan doesn't call Kashmir as part of India or Pakistan: it calls it disputed territory, not India's territory.* India should be ashamed of the genocide of the Kashmiris* they've been committing since 1947. India has no respect for international law, & has been committing crimes against humanity in Kashmir.


 
I thought Pakistan making fool of people from Azad Kashmir by calling it independent 

Even press is not free their 

just make sure they are independent (in reality) not on paper 

Kahte hai hame sharm aana chahiye 

Just like* soo chuhe khake billi haj ko chali *


----------



## 53fd

DRDO said:


> any thing else ??
> 
> and proof for this stupid claim


 
The onus of the proof lies on you & Bangladesh, not Pakistan. It was Bangladesh that made charges against Pakistan that were never substantiated. If you read Sarmila Bose's book who witnessed the 1971 war first hand, you would know that the rapes were a fabrication of Bangladesh & India after the war, along with the 3 million figure


----------



## 53fd

DRDO said:


> I thought Pakistan making fool of people from Azad Kashmir by calling it independent
> 
> Even press is not free their
> 
> just make sure they are independent (in reality) not on paper
> 
> Kahte hai hame sharm aana chahiye
> 
> Just like* soo chuhe khake billi haj ko chali *


 
As I already said, AJK is not part of Pakistan, its an autonomous region. Pakistan doesn't call Kashmir as its integral territory like India does, Pakistan holds the international position that Kashmir is disputed territory.


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## Ammyy

bilalhaider said:


> The onus of the proof lies on you & Bangladesh, not Pakistan. It was Bangladesh that made charges against Pakistan that were never substantiated. If you read Sarmila Bose's book who witnessed the 1971 war first hand, you would know that the rapes were a fabrication of Bangladesh & India after the war, along with the 3 million figure


 
their are thousands of people who witnessed 1971 war first hand 

if an article is more credible for you so i can post hundred like that which can show you your real face


----------



## 53fd

DRDO said:


> I thought Pakistan making fool of people from Azad Kashmir by calling it independent
> 
> Even press is not free their
> 
> just make sure they are independent (in reality) not on paper
> 
> Kahte hai hame sharm aana chahiye
> 
> Just like* soo chuhe khake billi haj ko chali *


 
Kashmiris in AJK freely express their views of an independent Kashmir nation, independent from Pakistan & India without getting jailed for it. Trying doing that in Indian Kashmir


----------



## Varad

bilalhaider said:


> As I already said, AJK is not part of Pakistan, its an autonomous region. Pakistan doesn't call Kashmir as its integral territory like India does, Pakistan holds the international position that Kashmir is disputed territory.


 
Kashmir integral part of Pakistan | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online


----------



## foxbat

bilalhaider said:


> Kashmiris in AJK freely express their views of an independent Kashmir nation, independent from Pakistan & India without getting jailed for it. Trying doing that in Indian Kashmir


 
You mean a pro independence AJK resident can go to Islamabad and make a speech favoring secession? Or is it the Prime Minister of AJK who has to go to Isloo to swear allegiance to Pakistan as a pre condition to be appointed a PM ...

I think you have your India - Pakistan mixed up..

What do we have here ?? a closet Indian ??


----------



## 53fd

DRDO said:


> their are thousands of people who witnessed 1971 war first hand
> 
> if an article is more credible for you so i can post hundred like that which can show you your real face


 
As I said, India & Bangladesh fabricated a lot of the history at the time by fabricating lies & false accusations, none of which were proven of course. It doesn't matter if you bring a thousand people who give their fabricated stories, because their false accusations have not been verified or substantiated.


----------



## justanobserver

bilalhaider said:


> Kashmiris in AJK freely express their views of an independent Kashmir nation, independent from Pakistan & India without getting jailed for it.


 


This is getting hilarious 




Skeptic said:


> Infact, the pre condition for holding ANY office in so called Azad Kashmir is to swear to an Oath :
> 
> 
> I will remain loyal to the country *and the cause of accession of the State of Jammu and Kashmir to Pakistan*
> This applies to positions from president, Prime minister, Minister, Speaker, MPs , MLCs etc.
> 
> *Additionally, (2) No person or political party in Azad Jammu and Kashmir shall be permitted to propagate against, or take part in activities prejudicial or detrimental to, the ideology of the States accession to Pakistan.*
> 
> Link:http://www.ajkassembly.gok.pk/AJK_Interim_Constitution_Act_1974.pdf (Official Constitution of so called Azad KAshmir)
> 
> This essentially means any pro-independence group will not be allowed to be established or survive on Pakistani specially Kashmiri land. Even a group supporting accession to India will not be allowed.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/6010-kashmir-news-discussions-1012.html#post1138638


----------



## Varad

bilalhaider said:


> Kashmiris in AJK freely express their views of an independent Kashmir nation, independent from Pakistan & India without getting jailed for it. Trying doing that in Indian Kashmir


 
Have you forgotten about the politicians who were supporting India over pakistan in cricket world cup. What happened to them????????


----------



## foxbat

Bilal is right.. What is however a proven and established fact is that India split Pakistan into 2. Rest all is a smokescreen around it..


----------



## Ammyy

bilalhaider said:


> Kashmiris in AJK freely express their views of an independent Kashmir nation, independent from Pakistan & India without getting jailed for it. Trying doing that in Indian Kashmir




like this one ???


----------



## 53fd

foxbat said:


> You mean a pro independence AJK resident can go to Islamabad and make a speech favoring secession? Or is it the Prime Minister of AJK who has to go to Isloo to swear allegiance to Pakistan as a pre condition to be appointed a PM ...
> 
> I think you have your India - Pakistan mixed up..
> 
> What do we have here ?? a closet Indian ??


 
Yes, there are a lot of Kashmiris in Pakistan that openly talk about an independent Kashmir without getting jailed. I personally know some such Kashmiris as well. The affairs of AJK are completely separate from the rest of Pakistan, because as I said, it is an autonomous region, not part of Pakistan.


----------



## justanobserver

This post was lost in the trolling. Waiting eagerly for bilal's reply



bilalhaider said:


> Kashmiris in AJK freely express their views of an independent Kashmir nation, independent from Pakistan & India without getting jailed for it.


 




Skeptic said:


> Infact, the pre condition for holding ANY office in so called Azad Kashmir is to swear to an Oath :
> 
> 
> *I will remain loyal to the country* *and the cause of accession of the State of Jammu and Kashmir to Pakistan*
> This applies to positions from president, Prime minister, Minister, Speaker, MPs , MLCs etc.
> 
> *Additionally, (2) No person or political party in Azad Jammu and Kashmir shall be permitted to propagate against, or take part in activities prejudicial or detrimental to, the ideology of the State&#8217;s accession to Pakistan.*
> 
> Link:http://www.ajkassembly.gok.pk/AJK_Interim_Constitution_Act_1974.pdf (Official Constitution of so called Azad KAshmir)
> 
> This essentially means any pro-independence group will not be allowed to be established or survive on Pakistani specially Kashmiri land. Even a group supporting accession to India will not be allowed.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/6010-kashmir-news-discussions-1012.html#post1138638


----------



## 53fd

DRDO said:


> like this one ???


 
As long as people are not violently protesting, people can express their views freely if done in a peaceful way & does not threaten the security of a region. Remind me what happened when Arundhati Roy claimed "Kashmir was not part of India"? Didn't she get charged with sedition for saying that?


----------



## 53fd

justanobserver said:


> This post was lost in the trolling. Waiting eagerly for bilal's reply
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/6010-kashmir-news-discussions-1012.html#post1138638


 
The AJK has its independent constitution, they can write whatever they want in it. Pakistan's constitution is not applicable to them. Obviously they have their loyalties with Pakistan, & have great love towards it, which is why they believe in the accession of J&K to Pakistan & wrote that in their constitution. They formed their constitution independently from Pakistan, & they can write whatever they want in it. Who are you to tell what they should or shouldn't write?


----------



## Varad

foxbat said:


> Bilal is right.. What is however a proven and established fact is that India split Pakistan into 2. Rest all is a smokescreen around it..


 
LOL You guys are completely undoing him. At least give him a chance.


----------



## 53fd

foxbat said:


> Bilal is right.. What is however a proven and established fact is that India split Pakistan into 2. Rest all is a smokescreen around it..


 
Yes, & the 'other half' is sending illegal immigrants into your states, & has been a source of Islamic insurgency movements in your country according to your own agencies.


----------



## justanobserver

bilalhaider said:


> The AJK has its independent constitution, they can write whatever they want in it. Pakistan's constitution is not applicable to them. Obviously they have their loyalties with Pakistan, & have great love towards it, which is why they believe in the accession of J&K to Pakistan & wrote that in their constitution. They formed their constitution independently from Pakistan, & they can write whatever they want in it. Who are you to tell what they should or shouldn't write?


 


> _I will remain loyal to the country and the cause of accession of the State of Jammu and Kashmir to Pakistan
> This applies to positions from president, Prime minister, Minister, Speaker, MPs , MLCs etc.
> 
> Additionally, (2) No person or political party in Azad Jammu and Kashmir shall be permitted to propagate against, or take part in activities prejudicial or detrimental to, the ideology of the State&#8217;s accession to Pakistan._




This is rich ! 

1.They're not allowed to protest

2.They can't declare independence and only support accession to Pakistan

Completely destroys your post


bilalhaider said:


> Yes, there are a lot of Kashmiris in Pakistan that openly talk about an independent Kashmir without getting jailed. I personally know some such Kashmiris as well. The affairs of AJK are completely separate from the rest of Pakistan, because as I said, it is an autonomous region, not part of Pakistan.
> Azad Indeed



But yes, they made this constitution "independently" and accession is only due to "love" to Pakistan. Keep living in your delusional world


----------



## 53fd

Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) is a *self-governing state* under Pakistani control but is not constitutionally part of Pakistan.[1][8]* It has its own elected president, prime minister, legislature, high court, and official flag.* * Azad Kashmir has it own Judiciary as well with Khawaja Shahad Ahmad as its present Chief Justice.*

*Azad Kashmir's financial matters, i.e., budget and tax affairs, are dealt with by the Azad Jammu and Kashmir Council, rather than by Pakistan's Central Board of Revenue. *The Azad Jammu and Kashmir Council is a supreme body consisting of 11 members, six from the government of Azad Jammu and Kashmir and five from the government of Pakistan. Its chairman/chief executive is the president of Pakistan. Other members of the council are the president and the prime minister of Azad Kashmir and a few other AJK ministers.


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## 53fd

justanobserver said:


> This is rich !
> 
> *1.They're not allowed to protest*
> 
> 2.They can't declare independence and only support accession to Pakistan



They are allowed to do so if they are not a security threat to the region. Peaceful protests are allowed of course.



> Completely destroys your post
> 
> 
> But yes, they made this constitution "independently" and accession is only due to "love" to Pakistan. Keep living in your delusional world


 
*It has its own elected president, prime minister, legislature, high court, and official flag. Azad Kashmir has it own Judiciary as well with Khawaja Shahad Ahmad as its present Chief Justice. Azad Kashmir's financial matters, i.e., budget and tax affairs, are dealt with by the Azad Jammu and Kashmir Council, rather than by Pakistan's Central Board of Revenue. *


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## Vinod2070

*Support Indian cricket team and get arrested in *

From ANI

New Delhi, Apr. 18: *Two stalwarts of National Awami Party of Pakistan Imran Shahzad and Naheem Iqbal Khwaja from Dadyal District Mirpur in Kashmir were arrested for their 'crime' of supporting the Indian cricket team during the recent cricket World Cup when they played against Pakistan in the semi-finals in Mohali, Punjab.

According to Dr. Shabir Choudhury of Kashmir National Party, the arrest of the ANP activists led to people expressing their anger against the Pakistani intelligence agencies.*

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## 53fd

Vinod2070 said:


> *Support Indian cricket team and get arrested in *
> 
> From ANI
> 
> New Delhi, Apr. 18: *Two stalwarts of National Awami Party of Pakistan Imran Shahzad and Naheem Iqbal Khwaja from Dadyal District Mirpur in Kashmir were arrested for their 'crime' of supporting the Indian cricket team during the recent cricket World Cup when they played against Pakistan in the semi-finals in Mohali, Punjab.
> 
> According to Dr. Shabir Choudhury of Kashmir National Party, the arrest of the ANP activists led to people expressing their anger against the Pakistani intelligence agencies.*



Look at the source of the article, DailyIndia.com

The original source: his blog

'Very credible' sources I must say. Please come up with more reputable sources. Dr. Shabir Choudhury is sitting in UK anyways & has a hatred towards Pakistan living in the West, unfortunately he's very uninformed with the situation in the region .


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## xTra

bilalhaider said:


> Look at the source of the article, DailyIndia.com
> 
> The second source: his blog
> 
> 'Very credible' sources I must say. Please come up with more reputable sources. Dr. Shabir Choudhury is sitting in UK anyways & has a hatred towards Pakistan living in the West, unfortunately he's very uninformed with the situation in the region .


 
TITLE of the Thread : *The Khalistan Diaries *


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## 53fd

xTra said:


> TITLE of the Thread : *The Khalistan Diaries *


 
your friends were the ones that started talking about bangladesh & kashmir first, i just obliged.


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## metro

foxbat said:


> Bilal is right.. What is however a proven and established fact is that India split Pakistan into 2. Rest all is a smokescreen around it..


 
haha.. Now we know where s the frustration coming from.


----------



## xTra

bilalhaider said:


> your friends were the ones that started talking about bangladesh & kashmir first, i just obliged.


 
And I thought you were intelligent.

Do you have something on topic.


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## 53fd

foxbat said:


> Bilal is right.. What is however a proven and established fact is that India split Pakistan into 2. Rest all is a smokescreen around it..





metro said:


> haha.. Now we know where s the frustration coming from.


 
Guess the Bharatis have run out of arguments, which is why they are repeating the old ones again ^^^. I won't repeat the whole Kashmir thing again.


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## metro

bilalhaider said:


> Guess the Bharatis have run out of arguments, which is why they are repeating the old ones again ^^^. I won't repeat the whole Kashmir thing again on my part.


 
Really... you came back to this thread after getting thudde from everybody the other day.
Do u realise you actually making a laughing stock of yourself here talking about minority rights.


----------



## 53fd

metro said:


> Really... you came back to this thread after getting thudde from everybody the other day.
> Do u realise you actually making a laughing stock of yourself here talking about minority rights.


 
Do you even know what's been talked about here, on this thread?


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## alphamale

guys come back to topic..................


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## metro

bilalhaider said:


> Do you even know what's been talked about here?


 
Does it matter ..?
All I can see is one serial troll trolling on every Indian thread with intentions to flame.
Do u actually think people would take your posts seriously at all, after being known as a serial troll.

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## 53fd

metro said:


> Does it matter ..?
> All I can see is one serial troll trolling on every Indian thread with intentions to flame.
> Do u actually think people would take your posts seriously at all, after being known as a serial troll.


 
They take my posts seriously, which is why they reply to my every post. 

I feel very honored, the Pakistani members don't take my posts as seriously as you guys do


----------



## alphamale

bilalhaider said:


> They take my posts seriously, which is why they reply to my every post.
> 
> I feel very honored, the Pakistani members don't take my posts as seriously as you guys do


 
don't live in delusion indians don't take ur posts seriously infact they reply to u just to burst ur myths & illogical facts abt india.


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## 53fd

alphamale said:


> don't live in delusion indians don't take ur posts seriously infact they reply to u just to burst ur myths & illogical facts abt india.


 
see, you replied to me again


----------



## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> Maybe because the Jessore district in the Khulna division that she wrote about in her book is right next to Calcutta?









I must be living in wrong Calcutta (Kolkata) then.

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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> The International Court of Justice never charged Pakistan with war crimes, so why should Pakistan co-operate with the International Commission of Jurists? The UN never charged Pakistan with war crimes, why should Pakistan co-operate with the International Commission of Jurists? The credibility of the UN is internationally acceptable, & they are the highest authority, so why should Pakistan be bothered by the hollow claims of Bengalis? Unfortunately, the claims by Bangladesh never substantiated.


 


bilalhaider said:


> India & Bangladesh were busy fabricating historical events & realities of the time, & Mukti Bahini were showing the dead bodies of Biharis that they killed themselves as Bengalis supposedly killed by the Pakistan Army; along with some of the other fabrications like the alleged rapes (the claims that were never substantiated of course).


 


bilalhaider said:


> No, Pakistan doesn't call Kashmir as part of India or Pakistan: it calls it disputed territory, not India's territory. India should be ashamed of the genocide of the Kashmiris they've been committing since 1947. India has no respect for international law, & has been committing crimes against humanity in Kashmir.


 


bilalhaider said:


> Funny you talk about international law, when it was India that sent its forces inside the territory of a sovereign nation; first in Jaffna, Sri Lanka to aid the LTTE terrorists against the Sri Lankan government; & then to aid the Mukti Bahini terrorists against Pakistan in East Pakistan. Pakistan has never sent its troops inside a sovereign nation's territory like India has. You're the last one that should be talking & lecturing others about international law because you clearly know nothing about it


OK. If you are saying it, it must be true.

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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> I must be living in wrong Calcutta (Kolkata) then.


 
Yes, probably:


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## desioptimist

Come back to topic. This guy needs land and has got a lot of money.


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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> Yes, probably:


Now would you be good boy and show me where is Calcutta w.r.t Khulna. 

This is getting beyond ridiculous.

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## desioptimist

Why are we talking about 71 war. This is about khalistan. Anyway, everybody said whatever they have to say about khalistan. Hope mods will close the thread.


----------



## LaBong

Haven't we already done debunking Ms Bose again and again? Her research is based on HR commission report without any cross checking of witnesses and we all know how close to reality HR commission findings were!

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## KS

bilalhaider said:


> foxbat said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean a pro independence AJK resident can go to Islamabad and make a speech favoring secession? Or is it the Prime Minister of AJK who has to go to Isloo to swear allegiance to Pakistan as a pre condition to be appointed a PM ...
> 
> I think you have your India - Pakistan mixed up..
> 
> What do we have here ?? a closet Indian ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kashmiris in AJK freely express their views of an independent Kashmir nation, independent from Pakistan & India without getting jailed for it. Trying doing that in Indian Kashmir
Click to expand...

 

&#8216;Liberate Muzaffarabad first and not Srinagar&#8217;





bilalhaider said:


> Why are you repeating the things Karthic Sri has already said? *Pakistan gave a part of your land out of its own will* to China,doesn't that distress you? Pakistan still has pretty much the full 45% of that 'integral territory', so what if it gave China like 1% from it? And Pakistan is getting the favor back by having Chinese troops on the border area of 'Pakistan Occupied Kashmir' (the lingo India uses ), which troubles your media & your people all the time .


 
Own will - If you cant prevent the r**e , atleast enjoy it. Makes sense 

And you seem to have the bad habit of pulling random numbers out of the place which receives no sun shine. Its at most 37% of the independent princely state of Kashmir that was attacked by Pakistani tribals when it was defenceless.


> 84471 square miles, It is larger than 95 other independent countries in area. Nearly 63 % of its territory is held under Indian control, 37 % under Pakistani control which includes an area less than 5 % known as Azad Kashmir.



http://www.kashmir.co.uk/basicfacts_x.htm

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## Rafi

indian crying about everything constantly, but have to say you meet a lot of Khalistanis in the West, especially in the UK, Canada, and the US.

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## Khalistan Patriot

*Khalistan Admitted to UNPO*

*Khalistan recognized internationally, a historic landmark. Sikh Nation vows to reclaim its lost sovereignty*

Nishan Sahib (Sikh Flag) hoisted along with other nations flags. Khalistan was admitted to UNPO on Jan 23, 1993 and Khalistan&#8217;s flag (Nishan Sahib) hoisted at UNPO&#8217;S (Unrepresented Nations Peoples Organizations) General Assembly meeting at The Hague, Netherlands, a major milestone in the struggle for reclamation of the lost Sikh sovereignty and for the freedom of Sikh Homeland of Punjab, Khalistan. The last time the Sikh Flag (Nishan Sahib) flew over the sovereign Sikh state was in 1849. Sikh nation lost its sovereignty to the British. On Jan 23, 1993, one hundered forty four years after the Sikhs lost their sovereignty, Dr. Gurmit Singh Aulakh, Dr.Paramjit Singh Ajrawat and S. Bhupinder Singh signed the covenant of Khalistan&#8217;s admission into UNPO.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KHALISTAN & UNPO : Self-determination conference Jan 22-23, 1993 Hague, Netherlands.

Refer to page 25:

&#8220;15. KHALISTAN

Self-determination stands for freedom and justice. Freedom is the most basic human right. When freedom is denied, every other right is denied. In Punjab/Khalistan the people are not free. Indian police and military forces occupy the territory and are guilty of serious human right violations, which include torture, rape and murder.

When the British left India in 1947, it was agreed that the Sikhs would gain autonomy in the Province of Punjab. However India did not honor its obligations. In 1987, after 40 years of suffering and oppression, the Sikh Nation declared its independence from India, forming the separate country of Khalistan. However the independence is not recognized by India. Like many other governments the Government of India invokes the principle of territorial integrity to protect its borders. Used in this way the principle is thus contradictory to the principle of self-determination and should therefore be condemned. Khalistan seeks independence by peaceful, democratic and non-violent means. It requests the UNPO among others to press India to allow Amnesty International within its borders to investigate the human rights violations in Punjab, Nagaland, Kashmir and all other places where people are suppressed. General suggestions to the UNPO are to ask Latvia and Estonia to take up the causes of the UNPO-members in the UN and to press the international community (especially the World Bank, the IMF and the donor nations) to link aid to respect for human rights and for freedom. In this context, the UNPO should make a list of nations that abuse human rights and distribute it to potential donors.&#8220;



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gore Letter Implies Recognition of Khalistan

WASHINGTON, D.C., February 24 &#8212; In a letter to Dr. Gurmit Singh Aulakh, President of the Council of Khalistan, Vice President Al Gore wrote, &#8220;Thank you for writing to me regarding the ongoing civil conflict in Khalistan.&#8221; 

By acknowledging &#8220;the civil conflict in Khalistan,&#8221; the letter implies recognition of Khalistan&#8217;s independence. Khalistan is the Sikh homeland which was declared independent on October 7, 1987. At that time, the Council of Khalistan was formed to lead the struggle to liberate Khalistan as the government pro tempore of Khalistan.

&#8220;By this statement, the Vice President makes it clear that U.S. foreign policy supports human rights, including the basic right to national self-determination which underlies the Sikh struggle for an independent Khalistan,&#8221; said Dr. Aulakh.

Punjab, Khalistan was independent from 1765 to 1849. It was the last part of the subcontinent to be conquered by the British. Sikhs are two-thirds of the population of Punjab and own 95 percent of the land there. In the recent elections, the Sikhs of Punjab overwhelmingly rejected Congress Party rule, which has brought about the murders of over 50,000 Sikhs in five years. This was a clear demand for an independent Khalistan.

When India was given its independence, the Sikhs were denied resumption of their independent status. The Sikhs were promised autonomy and they were given the Congress Party&#8217;s solemn pledge that no law affecting Sikh rights would pass without the consent of the Sikh Nation. But as soon as the ink was dry, the Indian regime broke these promises. As a result, no Sikh has ever signed the Indian constitution, denying Sikh assent to Indian rule.

Vice President Gore wrote that &#8220;civil conflict in any nation, and the inevitable hardship and bloodshed that it inflicts on that nation&#8217;s civilian population, offends our sense of human dignity and our humanitarian ideals.&#8221; The Indian regime has murdered more than 200,000 Sikhs in Khalistan since 1984, according to the Punjab Civil Service (PCS), the group which represents state magistrates across Punjab, Khalistan.

&#8220;The breakup of India is inevitable,&#8221; said Dr. Aulakh. &#8220;Many experts, from Dr. Jack Wheeler of the Freedom Research Foundation to Professor Stanley Wolpert of UCLA to the authors of A Quick and Dirty History of War have predicted it,&#8221; Dr. Aulakh pointed out. *&#8220;We are glad that the Administration, through Vice President Gore, has acknowledged the Sikh Nation&#8217;s status as a nation and its right to national self-determination.* With the support of the Administration and our many friends in Congress, the Sikh Nation will celebrate its three-hundredth anniversary in a sovereign, independent Khalistan,&#8221; he said.

Khalistan » Sovereign Nation


----------



## Prometheus

Khalistan Patriot said:


> *Khalistan Admitted to UNPO*
> 
> *Khalistan recognized internationally, a historic landmark. Sikh Nation vows to reclaim its lost sovereignty*
> 
> Nishan Sahib (Sikh Flag) hoisted along with other nations flags. Khalistan was admitted to UNPO on Jan 23, 1993 and Khalistan&#8217;s flag (Nishan Sahib) hoisted at UNPO&#8217;S (Unrepresented Nations Peoples Organizations) General Assembly meeting at The Hague, Netherlands, a major milestone in the struggle for reclamation of the lost Sikh sovereignty and for the freedom of Sikh Homeland of Punjab, Khalistan. The last time the Sikh Flag (Nishan Sahib) flew over the sovereign Sikh state was in 1849. Sikh nation lost its sovereignty to the British. On Jan 23, 1993, one hundered forty four years after the Sikhs lost their sovereignty, Dr. Gurmit Singh Aulakh, Dr.Paramjit Singh Ajrawat and S. Bhupinder Singh signed the covenant of Khalistan&#8217;s admission into UNPO.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> KHALISTAN & UNPO : Self-determination conference Jan 22-23, 1993 Hague, Netherlands.
> 
> Refer to page 25:
> 
> &#8220;15. KHALISTAN
> 
> Self-determination stands for freedom and justice. Freedom is the most basic human right. When freedom is denied, every other right is denied. In Punjab/Khalistan the people are not free. Indian police and military forces occupy the territory and are guilty of serious human right violations, which include torture, rape and murder.
> 
> When the British left India in 1947, it was agreed that the Sikhs would gain autonomy in the Province of Punjab. However India did not honor its obligations. In 1987, after 40 years of suffering and oppression, the Sikh Nation declared its independence from India, forming the separate country of Khalistan. However the independence is not recognized by India. Like many other governments the Government of India invokes the principle of territorial integrity to protect its borders. Used in this way the principle is thus contradictory to the principle of self-determination and should therefore be condemned. Khalistan seeks independence by peaceful, democratic and non-violent means. It requests the UNPO among others to press India to allow Amnesty International within its borders to investigate the human rights violations in Punjab, Nagaland, Kashmir and all other places where people are suppressed. General suggestions to the UNPO are to ask Latvia and Estonia to take up the causes of the UNPO-members in the UN and to press the international community (especially the World Bank, the IMF and the donor nations) to link aid to respect for human rights and for freedom. In this context, the UNPO should make a list of nations that abuse human rights and distribute it to potential donors.&#8220;
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gore Letter Implies Recognition of Khalistan
> 
> WASHINGTON, D.C., February 24 &#8212; In a letter to Dr. Gurmit Singh Aulakh, President of the Council of Khalistan, Vice President Al Gore wrote, &#8220;Thank you for writing to me regarding the ongoing civil conflict in Khalistan.&#8221;
> 
> By acknowledging &#8220;the civil conflict in Khalistan,&#8221; the letter implies recognition of Khalistan&#8217;s independence. Khalistan is the Sikh homeland which was declared independent on October 7, 1987. At that time, the Council of Khalistan was formed to lead the struggle to liberate Khalistan as the government pro tempore of Khalistan.
> 
> &#8220;By this statement, the Vice President makes it clear that U.S. foreign policy supports human rights, including the basic right to national self-determination which underlies the Sikh struggle for an independent Khalistan,&#8221; said Dr. Aulakh.
> 
> Punjab, Khalistan was independent from 1765 to 1849. It was the last part of the subcontinent to be conquered by the British. Sikhs are two-thirds of the population of Punjab and own 95 percent of the land there. In the recent elections, the Sikhs of Punjab overwhelmingly rejected Congress Party rule, which has brought about the murders of over 50,000 Sikhs in five years. This was a clear demand for an independent Khalistan.
> 
> When India was given its independence, the Sikhs were denied resumption of their independent status. The Sikhs were promised autonomy and they were given the Congress Party&#8217;s solemn pledge that no law affecting Sikh rights would pass without the consent of the Sikh Nation. But as soon as the ink was dry, the Indian regime broke these promises. As a result, no Sikh has ever signed the Indian constitution, denying Sikh assent to Indian rule.
> 
> Vice President Gore wrote that &#8220;civil conflict in any nation, and the inevitable hardship and bloodshed that it inflicts on that nation&#8217;s civilian population, offends our sense of human dignity and our humanitarian ideals.&#8221; The Indian regime has murdered more than 200,000 Sikhs in Khalistan since 1984, according to the Punjab Civil Service (PCS), the group which represents state magistrates across Punjab, Khalistan.
> 
> &#8220;The breakup of India is inevitable,&#8221; said Dr. Aulakh. &#8220;Many experts, from Dr. Jack Wheeler of the Freedom Research Foundation to Professor Stanley Wolpert of UCLA to the authors of A Quick and Dirty History of War have predicted it,&#8221; Dr. Aulakh pointed out. *&#8220;We are glad that the Administration, through Vice President Gore, has acknowledged the Sikh Nation&#8217;s status as a nation and its right to national self-determination.* With the support of the Administration and our many friends in Congress, the Sikh Nation will celebrate its three-hundredth anniversary in a sovereign, independent Khalistan,&#8221; he said.
> 
> Khalistan » Sovereign Nation


 
Khalistan recognised by unpo???????

Go to there site ......you wont find khalistan but you will find others from our neighbiuring country.

What ever you say mate.......we are happy.....you want khalistan........i wont mind but with Lahore as capital..........one border touching with afghanistan .........having kashmir in it as it was during Maharaja ranjit singh time


----------



## Jade

What is this UNPO...?


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## Rafi

Prometheus said:


> Khalistan recognised by unpo???????
> 
> Go to there site ......you wont find khalistan but you will find others from our neighbiuring country.
> 
> What ever you say mate.......we are happy.....you want khalistan........i wont mind but with Lahore as capital..........one border touching with afghanistan .........having kashmir in it as it was during Maharaja ranjit singh time


 
Lahore is a Pakistani City, and Khalistan would potentially be formed from indian Punjab.

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## Prometheus

jade1982 said:


> What is this UNPO...?


 
A group started by Dalai lama which includes Tibet , sindh, baloachistan , east turkmanistan as its members


----------



## KS

Prometheus said:


> Khalistan recognised by unpo???????
> 
> Go to there site ......you wont find khalistan but you will find others from our neighbiuring country.
> 
> What ever you say mate.......we are happy.....you want khalistan........i wont mind but with Lahore as capital..........one border touching with afghanistan .........having kashmir in it as it was during Maharaja ranjit singh time





Prometheus said:


> A group started by Dalai lama which includes Tibet , sindh, baloachistan , east turkmanistan as its members


 
Hmmm. Classic


----------



## Rafi

I think what Khalistani is saying is they have won entrance into that forum.


----------



## Prometheus

Rafi said:


> Lahore is a Pakistani City, and Khalistan would potentially be formed from indian Punjab.


 
Nope......lahore was the capital of Sikh empire and it will restored when khalistan will be made.
Hmmmmmm .......as i can recall peshawar also falls in Khalistan.

Sikhs appointed a very cruel general there ........it was a european.......cannot recall its name.....just search online.

And I wonder you will thank sikhs or curse them for winning KP province from Afghanistan ( after all its giving trouble to Pakistan


----------



## Prometheus

Rafi said:


> I think what Khalistani is saying is they have won entrance into that forum.


 
Hey I didnt applied for that???? How dare they did that without consulting me????


----------



## KS

Prometheus said:


> Nope......lahore was the capital of Sikh empire and it will restored when khalistan will be made.
> Hmmmmmm .......as i can recall peshawar also falls in Khalistan.
> 
> *Sikhs appointed a very cruel general there *........it was a european.......cannot recall its name.....just search online.
> 
> And I wonder you will thank sikhs or curse them for winning KP province from Afghanistan ( after all its giving trouble to Pakistan


 
Hari Singh Nalwa ?


----------



## kingkobra

Khalistan Patriot said:


> *Khalistan Admitted to UNPO*
> 
> *Khalistan recognized internationally, a historic landmark. Sikh Nation vows to reclaim its lost sovereignty*
> 
> Nishan Sahib (Sikh Flag) hoisted along with other nations flags. Khalistan was admitted to UNPO on Jan 23, 1993 and Khalistan&#8217;s flag (Nishan Sahib) hoisted at UNPO&#8217;S (Unrepresented Nations Peoples Organizations) General Assembly meeting at The Hague, Netherlands, a major milestone in the struggle for reclamation of the lost Sikh sovereignty and for the freedom of Sikh Homeland of Punjab, Khalistan. The last time the Sikh Flag (Nishan Sahib) flew over the sovereign Sikh state was in 1849. Sikh nation lost its sovereignty to the British. On Jan 23, 1993, one hundered forty four years after the Sikhs lost their sovereignty, Dr. Gurmit Singh Aulakh, Dr.Paramjit Singh Ajrawat and S. Bhupinder Singh signed the covenant of Khalistan&#8217;s admission into UNPO.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> KHALISTAN & UNPO : Self-determination conference Jan 22-23, 1993 Hague, Netherlands.
> 
> Refer to page 25:
> 
> &#8220;15. KHALISTAN
> 
> Self-determination stands for freedom and justice. Freedom is the most basic human right. When freedom is denied, every other right is denied. In Punjab/Khalistan the people are not free. Indian police and military forces occupy the territory and are guilty of serious human right violations, which include torture, rape and murder.
> 
> When the British left India in 1947, it was agreed that the Sikhs would gain autonomy in the Province of Punjab. However India did not honor its obligations. In 1987, after 40 years of suffering and oppression, the Sikh Nation declared its independence from India, forming the separate country of Khalistan. However the independence is not recognized by India. Like many other governments the Government of India invokes the principle of territorial integrity to protect its borders. Used in this way the principle is thus contradictory to the principle of self-determination and should therefore be condemned. Khalistan seeks independence by peaceful, democratic and non-violent means. It requests the UNPO among others to press India to allow Amnesty International within its borders to investigate the human rights violations in Punjab, Nagaland, Kashmir and all other places where people are suppressed. General suggestions to the UNPO are to ask Latvia and Estonia to take up the causes of the UNPO-members in the UN and to press the international community (especially the World Bank, the IMF and the donor nations) to link aid to respect for human rights and for freedom. In this context, the UNPO should make a list of nations that abuse human rights and distribute it to potential donors.&#8220;
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gore Letter Implies Recognition of Khalistan
> 
> WASHINGTON, D.C., February 24 &#8212; In a letter to Dr. Gurmit Singh Aulakh, President of the Council of Khalistan, Vice President Al Gore wrote, &#8220;Thank you for writing to me regarding the ongoing civil conflict in Khalistan.&#8221;
> 
> By acknowledging &#8220;the civil conflict in Khalistan,&#8221; the letter implies recognition of Khalistan&#8217;s independence. Khalistan is the Sikh homeland which was declared independent on October 7, 1987. At that time, the Council of Khalistan was formed to lead the struggle to liberate Khalistan as the government pro tempore of Khalistan.
> 
> &#8220;By this statement, the Vice President makes it clear that U.S. foreign policy supports human rights, including the basic right to national self-determination which underlies the Sikh struggle for an independent Khalistan,&#8221; said Dr. Aulakh.
> 
> Punjab, Khalistan was independent from 1765 to 1849. It was the last part of the subcontinent to be conquered by the British. Sikhs are two-thirds of the population of Punjab and own 95 percent of the land there. In the recent elections, the Sikhs of Punjab overwhelmingly rejected Congress Party rule, which has brought about the murders of over 50,000 Sikhs in five years. This was a clear demand for an independent Khalistan.
> 
> When India was given its independence, the Sikhs were denied resumption of their independent status. The Sikhs were promised autonomy and they were given the Congress Party&#8217;s solemn pledge that no law affecting Sikh rights would pass without the consent of the Sikh Nation. But as soon as the ink was dry, the Indian regime broke these promises. As a result, no Sikh has ever signed the Indian constitution, denying Sikh assent to Indian rule.
> 
> Vice President Gore wrote that &#8220;civil conflict in any nation, and the inevitable hardship and bloodshed that it inflicts on that nation&#8217;s civilian population, offends our sense of human dignity and our humanitarian ideals.&#8221; The Indian regime has murdered more than 200,000 Sikhs in Khalistan since 1984, according to the Punjab Civil Service (PCS), the group which represents state magistrates across Punjab, Khalistan.
> 
> &#8220;The breakup of India is inevitable,&#8221; said Dr. Aulakh. &#8220;Many experts, from Dr. Jack Wheeler of the Freedom Research Foundation to Professor Stanley Wolpert of UCLA to the authors of A Quick and Dirty History of War have predicted it,&#8221; Dr. Aulakh pointed out. *&#8220;We are glad that the Administration, through Vice President Gore, has acknowledged the Sikh Nation&#8217;s status as a nation and its right to national self-determination.* With the support of the Administration and our many friends in Congress, the Sikh Nation will celebrate its three-hundredth anniversary in a sovereign, independent Khalistan,&#8221; he said.
> 
> Khalistan » Sovereign Nation


 
UNPO Members

mate i dont see it there...

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## metro

kingkobra said:


> UNPO Members
> 
> mate i dont see it there...


 
Haha.. But we can see one Gilgit Baltistan there.


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## kingkobra

metro said:


> Haha.. But we can see one Gilgit Baltistan there.


 
and also SINDH and Balochistan


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## metro

kingkobra said:


> and also SINDH and Balochistan


 
This is so funny.. false flagger wanted to somehow raise doubts over India's territorial integrity and ended up exposing his own nation's disputes.


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## KS

Just now looked into it - 

UNPO - *Unrepresented* Nations and Peoples Organisations.

All the rejects have gone to one place and since no one cared about them they themselves started an organisation and gave themselves recognition.  

BTW Khalistan is still not there - but Sindh,Balochistan and GB are there


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## Prometheus

Karthic Sri said:


> Hari Singh Nalwa ?


 
Naaaahhhh........hari singh nalwa was too busy in expanding empire.
It was Paolo Avitabile .....an ex member of army of napolean


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## kingkobra

metro said:


> This is so funny.. false flagger wanted to somehow raise doubts over India's territorial integrity and ended up exposing his own nation's disputes.


 
this is what happens to such loosers 
Truth will always triumph 
Satyamev Jayte!!
Jai hind!!
good night all

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## justanobserver

metro said:


> Haha.. But we can see one Gilgit Baltistan there.



 He scored an own goal

http://www.unpo.org/members.php








> Abkhazia
> Aboriginals of Australia
> Afrikaner
> Ahwazi
> Assyria
> *Balochistan*
> Batwa
> Cabinda
> Chin
> Chittagong Hill Tracts
> Circassia
> Cordillera
> Crimean Tatars
> Degar-Montagnards
> East Turkestan
> *Gilgit Baltistan*
> Greek Minority in Albania
> 
> Hmong
> Hungarian Minority in Romania
> Inner Mongolia
> Iranian Kurdistan
> Iraqi Kurdistan
> Iraqi Turkmen
> Kalahui Hawaii
> Karenni State
> Khmer Krom
> Kosova
> Maasai
> Mapuche
> Mon
> Moro
> Nagalim
> Ogaden
> Ogoni
> 
> Oromo
> Rehoboth Basters
> Sanjak
> Scania
> *Sindh*
> Somaliland
> South Moluccas
> Southern Azerbaijan
> Southern Cameroons
> Taiwan
> Tibet
> Tsimshian
> Udmurt
> Vhavenda
> *West Balochistan*
> Zanzibar

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## 53fd

Karthic Sri said:


> And you seem to have the bad habit of pulling random numbers out of the place which receives no sun shine. *Its at most 37% of the independent princely state of Kashmir that was attacked by Pakistani tribals when it was defenceless.*
> [URL="http://www.kashmir.co.uk/basicfacts_x.htm"]http://www.kashmir.co.uk/basicfacts_x.htm


 


> Situation today: India controls 101,338 km2 (39,127 sq mi) of the disputed territory, Pakistan 85,846 km2 (33,145 sq mi) and China, the remaining 37,555 km2 (14,500 sq mi).



Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Total Area of Kashmir: Indian administered Kashmir + Pakistani administered Kashmir + China administered Kashmir (today's present situation)

Total Area of Kashmir: 101,338 + 85,846 + 37,555 = 224,739 km^2

Now don't forget that Pakistan gave China 5,800 km^2 of the Shaksam valley that it won from India. 

User:Cityvalyu/Pakistan occupied Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So effectively, the area that Pakistan won from India was: 85,846 + 5800 = 91646 km^2

Territory Pakistan won: 91,646/224,739 = 41% (not far off from my estimate of 45%)

Territory India won: 101,338/224,739 = 45%


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## Prometheus

bilalhaider said:


> Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Total Area of Kashmir: Indian administered Kashmir + Pakistani administered Kashmir + China administered Kashmir (today's present situation)
> 
> Total Area of Kashmir: 101,338 + 85,846 + 37,555 = 224,739 km^2
> 
> Now don't forget that Pakistan gave China 5,800 km^2 of the Shaksam valley that it won from India.
> 
> User:Cityvalyu/Pakistan occupied Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> So effectively, the area that Pakistan won from India was: 85,846 + 5800 = 91646 km^2
> 
> Territory Pakistan won: 91,646/224,739 = 41% (not far off from my estimate of 45%)
> 
> Territory India won: 101,338/224,739 = 45%


 
Plz stay on topic.
We are discussiong a very serious topic


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## foxbat

Kashmir is fine, but lets talk more about UNPO, Sindh, Balochistan and GilGit Baltistan

Also the Indian Kashmir doesnt seem to be figuring here


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## 53fd

foxbat said:


> Kashmir is fine, but lets talk more about UNPO, Sindh, Balochistan and GilGit Baltistan
> 
> Also the Indian Kashmir doesnt seem to be figuring here


 
It's funny that the *entire Pakistani nation* has 4 separatist movements, while* there are more than 120 all across India*. One would think they should be accounted on this UNPO website as well. Why hasn't Kashmir been accounted for on this website? Seems fishy, hmmm...


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## Prometheus

bilalhaider said:


> It's funny that the *entire Pakistani nation* has 4 separatist movements, while* there are more than 120 all across India*. One would think they should be accounted on this UNPO website as well. Why hasn't Kashmir been accounted for on this website? Seems fishy, hmmm...


 
Come close .....i will tell you a secret.....

It was started by Dalai lama

Sssshhhhh .....dont tell any one


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## notsuperstitious

bilalhaider said:


> It's funny that the *entire Pakistani nation* has 4 separatist movements, while* there are more than 120 all across India*. One would think they should be accounted on this UNPO website as well. Why hasn't Kashmir been accounted for on this website? Seems fishy, hmmm...


 
You mean the post 1971 entire Pakistan, then you are right. Once successful, they are no more separatist movements.

Also when unsuccessful, the world loses interest, thats why no Indian ones 

120 movements LOL victims of their own propaganda, sad.


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## foxbat

bilalhaider said:


> It's funny that the *entire Pakistani nation* has 4 separatist movements, while* there are more than 120 all across India*. One would think they should be accounted on this UNPO website as well. Why hasn't Kashmir been accounted for on this website? Seems fishy, hmmm...


 
Heh Heh.. Goes to show that not everyone in the world looks at India with the same prism used by Pakistan...


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## KS

bilalhaider said:


> Now don't forget that Pakistan gave China 5,800 km^2 of the Shaksam valley that it won from India.
> 
> So effectively, the area that Pakistan won from India was: 85,846 + 5800 = 91646 km^2


 
You aint fooling anybody smarty pants by counting Shaksgam Valley twice. Think about it.

So again its 85846/224739 * 100 =~ 38%.





bilalhaider said:


> It's funny that the entire Pakistani nation[/B] has 4 separatist movements, while there are more than 120 all across India[/B]. One would think they should be accounted on this UNPO website as well. Why hasn't Kashmir been accounted for on this website? Seems fishy, hmmm...


 
RAW-CIA-MOSSAD propaganda to deceive the innocent Pakistani. 

BTW as I said those seem to be doing heck of job than those 130 movements that are mostly impotent.


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## 53fd

fateh71 said:


> You mean the post 1971 entire Pakistan, then you are right. Once successful, they are no more separatist movements.
> 
> Also when unsuccessful, the world loses interest, thats why no Indian ones
> 
> 120 movements LOL victims of their own propaganda, sad.



Sorry I was a bit off, it's 150+ insurgencies in India, not including the Maoists of course.

These are all the insurgencies inside India:
*
Assam:*

1. United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA) 
2. National Democratic Front of Bodoland (NDFB)
3. United People's Democratic Solidarity (UPDS) 
4. Kamtapur Liberation Organisation (KLO) 
5. Bodo Liberation Tiger Force (BLTF) 
6. Dima Halim Daogah (DHD) 
7. Karbi National Volunteers (KNV) 
8. Rabha National Security Force (RNSF) 
9. Koch-Rajbongshi Liberation Organisation (KRLO) 
10. Hmar People's Convention- Democracy (HPC-D) 
11. Karbi People's Front (KPF) 
12. Tiwa National Revolutionary Force (TNRF) 
13. Bircha Commando Force (BCF) 
14. Bengali Tiger Force (BTF) 
15. Adivasi Security Force (ASF) 
16. All Assam Adivasi Suraksha Samiti (AAASS) 
17. Gorkha Tiger Force (GTF) 
18. Barak Valley Youth Liberation Front (BVYLF) 
19. Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam (MULTA) 
20. United Liberation Front of Barak Valley 
21. Muslim United Liberation Front of Assam (MULFA) 
22. Muslim Security Council of Assam (MSCA) 
23. United Liberation Militia of Assam (ULMA) 
24. Islamic Liberation Army of Assam (ILAA) 
25. Muslim Volunteer Force (MVF) 
26. Muslim Liberation Army (MLA) 
27. Muslim Security Force (MSF) 
28. Islamic Sevak Sangh (ISS) 
29. Islamic United Reformation Protest of India (IURPI) 
30. United Muslim Liberation Front of Assam (UMLFA) 
31. Revolutionary Muslim Commandos (RMC) 
32. Muslim Tiger Force (MTF) 
33. People&#8217;s United Liberation Front (PULF) 
34. Adam Sena (AS) 
35. Harkat-ul-Mujahideen 
36. Harkat-ul-Jehad 

*Jammu & Kashmir
*
37. Lashkar-e-Omar (LeO) 
38. Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM) 
39. Harkat-ul-Ansar (HuA, presently known as Harkat-ul Mujahideen) 
40. Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) 
41. Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) 
42. Harkat-ul Mujahideen (HuM, previously known as Harkat-ul-Ansar) 
43. Al Badr 
44. Jamait-ul-Mujahideen (JuM) 
45. Lashkar-e-Jabbar (LeJ) 
46. Harkat-ul-Jehad-i-Islami 
47. Al Barq 
48. Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen 
49. Al Jehad 
50. Jammu & Kashir National Liberation Army 
51. People&#8217;s League 
52. Muslim Janbaz Force 
53. Kashmir Jehad Force 
54. Al Jehad Force (combines Muslim Janbaz Force and Kashmir Jehad Force) 
55. Al Umar Mujahideen 
56. Mahaz-e-Azadi 
57. Islami Jamaat-e-Tulba 
58. Jammu & Kashmir Students Liberation Front 
59. Ikhwan-ul-Mujahideen 
60. Islamic Students League 
61. Tehrik-e-Hurriat-e-Kashmir 
62. Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqar Jafaria 
63. Al Mustafa Liberation Fighters 
64. Tehrik-e-Jehad-e-Islami 
65. Muslim Mujahideen 
66. Al Mujahid Force 
67. Tehrik-e-Jehad 
68. Islami Inquilabi Mahaz 
69. Mutahida Jehad Council (MJC) 
70. Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF)
71. All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC)
72. Dukhtaran-e-Millat (DeM)

*Manipur:
*
73. United National Liberation Front (UNLF) 
74. People&#8217;s Liberation Army (PLA) 
75. People&#8217;s Revolutionary Party of Kangleipak (PREPAK) 
76. The above mentioned three groups now operate from a unified platform, the Manipur People&#8217;s Liberation Front (MPLF) 
77. Kangleipak Communist Party (KCP) 
78. Kanglei Yawol Kanna Lup (KYKL) 
79. Manipur Liberation Tiger Army (MLTA) 
80. Iripak Kanba Lup (IKL) 
81. People&#8217;s Republican Army (PRA) 
82. Kangleipak Kanba Kanglup (KKK) 
83. Kangleipak Liberation Organisation (KLO) 
84. Revolutionary Joint Committee (RJC) 
85. National Socialist Council of Nagaland -- Isak-Muivah (NSCN-IM) 
86. People&#8217;s United Liberation Front (PULF) 
87. North East Minority Front (NEMF) 
88. Islamic National Front (INF) 
89. Islamic Revolutionary Front (IRF) 
90. United Islamic Liberation Army (UILA) 
91. United Islamic Revolutionary Army (UIRA) 
92. Kuki National Front (KNF) 
93. Kuki National Army (KNA) 
94. Kuki Revolutionary Army (KRA) 
95. Kuki National Organisation (KNO) 
96. Kuki Independent Army (KIA) 
97. Kuki Defence Force (KDF) 
98. Kuki International Force (KIF) 
99/ Kuki National Volunteers (KNV) 
100. Kuki Liberation Front (KLF) 
101. Kuki Security Force (KSF) 
102. Kuki Liberation Army (KLA) 
103. Kuki Revolutionary Front (KRF) 
104. United Kuki Liberation Front (UKLF) 
105. Hmar People&#8217;s Convention (HPC) 
106. Hmar People's Convention- Democracy (HPC-D) 
107. Hmar Revolutionary Front (HRF) 
108. Zomi Revolutionary Army (ZRA) 
109. Zomi Revolutionary Volunteers (ZRV) 
110. Indigenous People's Revolutionary Alliance(IRPA) 
111. Kom Rem People's Convention (KRPC) 
112. Chin Kuki Revolutionary Front (CKRF) 

*Meghalaya:*

113. Hynniewtrep National Liberation Council (HNLC) 
114. Achik National Volunteer Council (ANVC) 
115. People&#8217;s Liberation Front of Meghalaya (PLF-M) 
116. Hajong United Liberation Army (HULA) 

*Nagaland:*

117. National Socialist Council of Nagaland (Isak-Muivah) &#8211; NSCN(IM) 
118. National Socialist Council of Nagaland (Khaplang) &#8211; NSCN (K) 
119. Naga National Council (Adino) &#8211; NNC (Adino) 

*Tripura:*

120. National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) 
121. All Tripura Tiger Force (ATTF) 
122. Tripura Liberation Organisation Front (TLOF) 
123. United Bengali Liberation Front (UBLF) 
124. Tripura Tribal Volunteer Force (TTVF) 
125. Tripura Armed Tribal Commando Force (TATCF) 
126. Tripura Tribal Democratic Force (TTDF) 
127. Tripura Tribal Youth Force (TTYF) 
128. Tripura Liberation Force (TLF) 
129. Tripura Defence Force (TDF) 
130. All Tripura Volunteer Force (ATVF) 
131. Tribal Commando Force (TCF) 
132. Tripura Tribal Youth Force (TTYF) 
133. All Tripura Bharat Suraksha Force (ATBSF) 
134. Tripura Tribal Action Committee Force (TTACF) 
135. Socialist Democratic Front of Tripura (SDFT) 
136. All Tripura National Force (ATNF) 
137. Tripura Tribal Sengkrak Force (TTSF) 
138. Tiger Commando Force (TCF) 
139. Tripura Mukti Police (TMP) 
140. Tripura Rajya Raksha Bahini (TRRB) 
141. Tripura State Volunteers (TSV) 
142. Tripura National Democratic Tribal Force (TNDTF) 
143. National Militia of Tripura (NMT) 
144. All Tripura Bengali Regiment (ATBR) 
145. Bangla Mukti Sena (BMS) 
146. All Tripura Liberation Organisation (ATLO) 
147. Tripura National Army (TNA) 
148. Tripura State Volunteers (TSV) 
149. Borok National Council of Tripura (BNCT) 

*Mizoram *
150. Bru National Liberation Front 
151. Hmar People's Convention- Democracy (HPC-D) 
*
Arunachal Pradesh *
152. Arunachal Dragon Force (ADF) 

*Left-wing Extremist groups (non-separatist insurgencies)*

Communist Party of India-Maoist (CPI-Maoist) 
People's War Group 
Maoist Communist Centre 
People's Guerrilla Army 
Communist Party of India (Marxist Leninist) Janashakti 
Tritiya Prastuti Committee (TPC) 

*Other Extremist Groups: (non-separatist insurgencies)*
Tamil National Retrieval Troops (TNRT) 
Akhil Bharat Nepali Ekta Samaj (ABNES) 
Tamil Nadu Liberation Army (TNLA) 
Deendar Anjuman 
Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) 
Asif Reza Commando Force 
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) 
Kamatapur Liberation Organisation (KLO)

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## 53fd

Karthic Sri said:


> You aint fooling anybody smarty pants by counting Shaksgam Valley twice. Think about it.
> 
> So again its 85846/224739 * 100 =~ 38%.



Who's including it twice? Pakistan* today* occupies 85,846 km^2 of the total Kashmir. This does not include the 5,800 km^2 of the Shaksam valley that it won from India, & gave to China. 

Hence, the area Pakistan won from India was: 91,646/224739 = 41%


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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> ...the Shaksam valley that it won from India, & gave to China.


Firstly, Shaksam Valley was not 'won' from India. It was part of independent Princely State of Jammu & Kashmir and Pakistan won it from them, in a blatant violation of Standstill Agreement with J&K and of course, several international laws.

Secondly, Pakistan considers J&K as 'disputed'. Which means, according to Pakistan, ownership hasn't yet been determined; means that Shaksam Valley is not Pakistan's property to hand over to a third party. Given Pakistan's stand is 'Kashmir belongs to Kashmiri, so let them decide', this whole episode reveals Pakistan's duplicity and of course, the moral vacuity of its stand.

You are actually calling your own country a double-crossing thug and trying desperately to convince yourself that it is a good thing. Carry on though. You have almost reached the epic heights of folly. A few more posts and you will be there.


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## Khalistan Patriot



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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> Firstly, Shaksam Valley was not 'won' from India. It was part of independent Princely State of Jammu & Kashmir and Pakistan won it from them, in a blatant violation of Standstill Agreement with J&K and of course, several international laws.
> 
> Secondly, Pakistan considers J&K as 'disputed'. Which means, according to Pakistan, ownership hasn't yet been determined; means that Shaksam Valley is not Pakistan's property to hand over to a third party. Given Pakistan's stand is 'Kashmir belongs to Kashmiri, so let them decide', this whole episode reveals Pakistan's duplicity and of course, the moral vacuity of its stand.
> 
> You are actually calling your own country a double-crossing thug and trying desperately to convince yourself that it is a good thing. Carry on though. You have almost reached the epic heights of folly. A few more posts and you will be there.


 
Pakistan's stance is in line with the UN & international agencies that Kashmir is 'disputed territory', while India is against the UN conventions & calls it "an integral part of India".


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## Vinod2070

bilalhaider said:


> Who's including it twice? Pakistan* today* occupies 85,846 km^2 of the total Kashmir. This does not include the 5,800 km^2 of the Shaksam valley that it won from India, & gave to China.
> 
> Hence, the area Pakistan won from India was: 91,646/224739 = 41%


 
Pakistan won zero Km^2 from *India*!

India entered the state only after the accession. Before that it was the small army of the king protecting the state and Kashmiris against the tribal hordes.

After IA came, they ran in only one direction, showing their back.

Unfortunately Nehru went for the truce at that point against Patel's advice. Else there would be no Kashmir issue today and no Pak-China border.


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## jayron

bilalhaider said:


> Who's including it twice? Pakistan* today* occupies 85,846 km^2 of the total Kashmir. This does not include the 5,800 km^2 of the Shaksam valley that it won from India, & gave to China.
> 
> Hence, the area Pakistan won from India was: 91,646/224739 = 41%


 
Thats because your hate filled nation started showing its true face even before establishing her self. The King ceded Kashmir to India after Mr.Jinnah the trustworthy gentleman sent tribal terrorists to fight just like you guys do now. I seriously doubt Pakistan would have been any different even if Jinnah had lived any longer.


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## 53fd

Vinod2070 said:


> Pakistan won zero Km^2 from *India*!
> 
> India entered the state only after the accession. Before that it was the small army of the king protecting the state and Kashmiris against the tribal hordes.
> 
> After IA came, they ran in only one direction, showing their back.
> 
> Unfortunately Nehru went for the truce at that point against Patel's advice. Else there would be no Kashmir issue today and no Pak-China border.


 
In the same way, India won zero km^2 from Pakistan in 1971. Call it even?


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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> Pakistan's stance is in line with the UN & international agencies that Kashmir is 'disputed territory'...


If that is so then you need to explain why Pakistan handed over to China, a piece of land that is, by your own admission, recognized as 'disputed' and hence not Pakistan's property. 

I will not embarrass you by citing certain law that severely restricts political activities of Kashmiris in P0K.

Your ability to shift goal-post is impressive.


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## Vinod2070

Yes, we just liberated the Bangladeshis from an ongoing genocide and cru8shed the PA.

In addition to securing the surrender of 93000 PA.

We don't want a single square inch of Pakistan. Nor will you get a single square inch of Indian land.


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## 53fd

jayron said:


> Thats because your hate filled nation started showing its true face even before establishing her self. The King ceded Kashmir to India after Mr.Jinnah the trustworthy gentleman sent tribal terrorists to fight just like you guys do now. I seriously doubt Pakistan would have been any different even if Jinnah had lived any longer.





Vinod2070 said:


> We don't want a single square inch of Pakistan. Nor will you get a single square inch of Indian land.




NOT TRUE Vinod2070. The bolded parts below are territorial disputes between India & Pakistan:

These are the territorial disputes of India with its neighbors:

1. 2001 Indian&#8211;Bangladeshi border conflict (Bangladesh)
2. Aksai Chin (China)
3. Arunachal Pradesh (China)
4. Demchok (China) 
5. Depsang Plains (China)
6. Dohogram (Bangladesh)
7. Feni River (Bangladesh)
8. Indo-Bangladesh enclaves (Bangladesh)
9. Kalapani River (Nepal) 
10. Kalapani, disputed territory (Nepal)
11. *Kashmir conflict*
12. *Kori Creek*
13. Langpih 
14. Maliku Atoll (Maldives)
15. Narcondam Island (Burma) 
16. New Moore / South Talpatti (Bangladesh)
17. *Sir Creek*
18. Susta (Nepal)
19. Tin Bigha Corridor (Bangladesh)
20. *Trans-Karakoram Tract*
21. *Great Rann of Kutch*
22. *Little Rann of Kutch*

Pakistan's territorial disputes with its 'neighbor':

1. *Kashmir conflict*
2. Durand Line (odd one out, from the Afghan side)
3. *Great Rann of Kutch*
4. *Little Rann of Kutch*
5. *Kori Creek*
6. *Sir Creek* 

So to summarize, India has territorial disputes with the following countries:

1. Pakistan
2. Bangladesh
3. China
4. Nepal
5. Maldives
6. Burma

Pakistan has territorial disputes with the following countr(ies):

1. India
Afghanistan (technically not a dispute, as the Durand Line is an internationally accepted border)


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## foxbat

bilalhaider said:


> In the same way, India won zero km^2 from Pakistan in 1971. Call it even?


 
Heh Heh.. Not really mate.. We sliced you up real good in 1971. And the master stroke was to create a separate country and not keep the land for ourselves since if it was kept within India, sooner or later, world pressure would have forced us to return it back.

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## toxic_pus

^^ And the relevance is....?

EDIT: Meant for bilal for post #775


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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> In the same way, India won zero km^2 from Pakistan in 1971. Call it even?


Ever heard of Kargil?


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## 53fd

foxbat said:


> Heh Heh.. Not really mate.. We sliced you up real good in 1971. And the master stroke was to create a separate country and not keep the land for ourselves since if it was kept within India, sooner or later, world pressure would have forced us to return it back.


 
Just like Pakistan sliced up 41% of the integral territory of yours


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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> Ever heard of Kargil?


 
As far as I remember, you only regained the territory you had lost to Pakistan.


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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> As far as I remember, you only regained the territory you had lost to Pakistan.


You remember wrong. Kargil was first Pakistani territory according to Karachi Agreement 1949. It was captured by India in 1965. Twice. First it was returned under UNMOGIP agreement and the second time it was returned under Tashkand agreement in 1966. It was then recaptured in 1971.

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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> Ever heard of Kargil?


 
*Indian General:India actually lost Kargil war: Gen Pal*

*"&#8220;I consider this loss of war because whatever we gained from the war has not been consolidated, either politically or diplomatically, it has not been consolidated militarily,&#8221;* Lt Gen (retd) Kishen Pal

General Pal is the one who led the Indian Army on ground in the Kargil conflict!!!











&#8220;We lost Kargil&#8221; Lieutenant-General Kishan Pal | Times of Kabul

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## Vinod2070

^^ It was still not Pakistani territory.

We just took our own land back.


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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> You remember wrong. Kargil was first Pakistani territory according to Karachi Agreement 1949. It was captured by India in 1965. Twice. First it was returned under UNMOGIP agreement and the second time it was returned under Tashkand agreement in 1966. It was then recaptured in 1971.


 
But don't you consider Kargil & the rest of Kashmir as an integral part of Pakistan? Show me one place today that says Pakistan considers Kargil & Kashmir as an "integral part of Pakistan".

Nice diversionary tactics 

---------- Post added at 09:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 AM ----------




toxic_pus said:


> You remember wrong. Kargil was first Pakistani territory according to Karachi Agreement 1949. It was captured by India in 1965. Twice. First it was returned under UNMOGIP agreement and the second time it was returned under Tashkand agreement in 1966. It was then recaptured in 1971.


 
See, even your fellow Indian admits you're wrong:



Vinod2070 said:


> ^^ It was still *not* Pakistani territory.
> 
> We just took* our own* land back.


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## 53fd

It's hilarious that no Indian here seems capable of answering Post # 775.


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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> But don't you consider Kargil & the rest of Kashmir as an integral part of Pakistan? Show me one place today that says Pakistan considers Kargil & Kashmir as an "integral part of Pakistan".
> 
> Nice diversionary tactics


Irrelevant. Your claim was that India couldn't capture an inch of Pakistan in '71. I just proved you wrong. Kargil was part of Pakistan as per ceasfire agreement (which is what Karachi Agreement 1949 was).



> See, even your fellow Indian admits it:


You are way too busy making a fool out of yourself to get his point. Technically whole of Kashmir is ours. Hence getting Kargil is getting our land back. Thats why I mentioned Karachi Agreement, trying to imply that it went to your possession through ceasefire agreement.

You are getting denser by the second.


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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> It's hilarious that no Indian here seems capable of answering Post # 775.


Your post #775 is just a statement that lists apparent land disputes. Was there a hidden question that you are expecting to be answered?


----------



## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> Irrelevant. Your claim was that India couldn't capture an inch of Pakistan in '71. I just proved you wrong. Kargil was part of Pakistan as per ceasfire agreement (which is what Karachi Agreement 1949 was).



It wasn't Pakistan's, & your fellow Indian admitted it. You only regained your territory you had lost to Pakistan in the first place. You're contradicting yourself


----------



## foxbat

bilalhaider said:


> Just like Pakistan sliced up 41% of the integral territory of yours


 
Desperation peeks thru.. Kashmir was not a part of India when you annexed it matey.. Had you been not living in USA, I would have given some concession considering the kind of history is taught in Pakistan, but that doesnt apply to you. SO I guess you know the shaky ground you are on, and hence are trying to murky up the discussion with nonsense


----------



## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> Irrelevant. Your claim was that India couldn't capture an inch of Pakistan in '71. I just proved you wrong. Kargil was part of Pakistan as per ceasfire agreement (which is what Karachi Agreement 1949 was).
> 
> 
> You are way too busy making a fool out of yourself to get his point. Technically whole of Kashmir is ours. Hence getting Kargil is getting our land back. Thats why I mentioned Karachi Agreement, trying to imply that it went to your possession through ceasefire agreement.
> 
> You are getting denser by the second.


 
This is the text taken from the Karachi Agreement 1949. I do not see "Kargil" mentioned in there anywhere:



> The Karachi Agreement March 1949
> 
> It is claimed that this agreement was signed between the following:
> 
> 1. Honourable Mushtaque Ahmed Gurmani, Minister without Portfolio, Government of Pakistan.
> 
> 2. Sardar Mohammed Ibrahim Khan, the President of Azad Kashmir.
> 
> 3. Choudhry Ghulam Abbas, Head of All Jammu and Kashmir Muslim Conference.
> 
> Text of the Agreement
> 
> A. Matters within the purview of the Government of Pakistan.
> 
> 1. Defence (as modified under....).
> 2. Foreign policy of Azad Kashmir.
> 3. Negotiations with the United Nations Commission for India and
> Pakistan.
> 4. Publicity in foreign countries and in Pakistan.
> 5. Co - ordination and arrangement of relief and rehabilitation of
> refugees.
> 6. Co - ordination of publicity in connection with plebiscite.
> 7. All activities within Pakistan regarding Kashmir such as procurement
> of food, civil supplies running of refugee camps and medical aid.
> 8. All affairs of Gilgit - Ladakh under the control of Political Agent.
> 
> B. Matters within the purview of Azad Kashmir Government.
> 
> 1. Policy with regard to administration of AK territory.
> 2. General supervision of administration in AK territory.
> 3. Publicity with regard to the activities of the Azad Kashmir
> Government and administration.
> 4. Advice to the honourable Minister without Portfolio with regard to negotiations with United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan.
> 5. Development of economic resources of AK territory.
> 
> C. Matters within the purview of the Muslim Conference.
> 
> 1. Publicity with regard to plebiscite in the AK territory.
> 2. Field work and publicity in the Indian occupied area of the State.
> 3. Organisation of political activities in the AK territory and the
> Indian occupied area of the State.
> 4. Preliminary arrangements in connection with the plebiscite.
> 5. Organisation for contesting the plebiscite.
> 6. Political work and publicity among the Kashmiri refugees in
> Pakistan.
> 7. Advise the honourable minister without Portfolio with regard to the negotiations with the United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan.


----------



## Abu Zolfiqar

safriz said:


> oh,khalistan movement rekindled? Good good. I wonder if dilair mehdi becomes prime minister of newly indipendant khalistam. The national anthem willbe 'turuk turuk tuk turuk turuk tuk . Turuk tiruk tuk. Tana naa


 


perfect...


----------



## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> It wasn't Pakistan's, & your fellow Indian admitted it. You only regained your territory you had lost to Pakistan in the first place. You're contradicting yourself


You are more dense than I thought. Here it is once again. Tabulated for you. Read S L O W L Y.

1. Whole of Kashmir is ours because the ruler acceded Kashmir to India.

2. But before accession Pakistan had captured certain parts of independent Kashmir.

3. Ceasefire agreement allowed Pakistan to retain these parts.

4. However, although the possession is of Pakistan's, de jure ownership continues to be ours.

5. Thus capturing Kargil was repossession of land that is _de jure_ ours, but _de facto_ yours.

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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> Your post #775 is just a statement that lists apparent land disputes. Was there a hidden question that you are expecting to be answered?



Post # 775 is the brutal exposition of your Indian poster's Post # 771.


----------



## jayron

bilalhaider said:


> These are the territorial disputes of India with its neighbors:
> 
> 1. 2001 Indian&#8211;Bangladeshi border conflict
> 2. Aksai Chin
> 3. Arunachal Pradesh
> 4. Demchok
> 5. Depsang Plains
> 6. Dohogram
> 7. Feni River
> 8. Indo-Bangladesh enclaves
> 9. Kalapani River
> 10. Kalapani, disputed territory
> 11. Kashmir conflict
> 12. Kori Creek
> 13. Langpih
> 14. Maliku Atoll
> 15. Narcondam Island
> 16. New Moore / South Talpatti
> 17. Sir Creek
> 18. Susta
> 19. Tin Bigha Corridor
> 20. Trans-Karakoram Tract
> 21. Great Rann of Kutch
> 22. Little Rann of Kutch
> 
> Pakistan's territorial disputes with its 'neighbor':
> 
> 1. Kashmir conflict
> 2. Durand Line (odd one out, from the Afghan side)
> 3. Great Rann of Kutch
> 4. Little Rann of Kutch
> 5. Kori Creek
> 6. Trans-Karakoram Tract


 
The point is you sent the militants first and still doing it. 

And I think Pakistan has issues with every neighbor except for China to which you guys have sold out.


----------



## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> This is the text taken from the Karachi Agreement 1949. I do not see "Kargil" mentioned in there anywhere:


That is not the whole text of the Agreement. And no you will not find the mention of Kargil there. Demarcation was being done on watershed principle, mostly, and on the basis of location points.


----------



## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> You remember wrong.* Kargil was first Pakistani territory according to Karachi Agreement 1949.* It was captured by India in 1965. Twice. First it was returned under UNMOGIP agreement and the second time it was returned under Tashkand agreement in 1966. It was then recaptured in 1971.


 
First lie exposed :







The red line ^^^ is the 1949 Cease Fire Line, & the Line accepted by the Karachi Agreement 1949. As you can quite easily see, the blue rectangular box 'Kargil' ^^^ is inside Indian territory, not Pakistan. 

What can one expect from shameless Indian liars like yourself?


----------



## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> Post # 775 is the brutal exposition of your Indian poster's Post # 771.


 
Nowhere close. It is in fact a strawman. But hey, whatever helps you sleep.

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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> First lie exposed :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The red line ^^^ is the 1949 Cease Fire Line, & the Line accepted by the Karachi Agreement 1949. As you can quite easily see, the blue rectangular box 'Kargil' ^^^ is inside Indian territory, not Pakistan.
> 
> What can one expect from shameless Indian liars?


You do realise that Kargil is a district and stretches northward.

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## jayron

bilalhaider said:


> It's hilarious that no Indian here seems capable of answering Post # 775.



LOL too brutal for me to handle ..

You weren't able to give a straight reply for why your gentle man Jinnah sent militants into Kashmir like a coward instead of soldiers. . You are giving a list of India's territorial disputes instead. Try to comprehend the question first. Then you can take pride in your intellect.

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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> You do realise that Kargil is a district and stretches northward.


 
Yes, & the map above shows Kargil district, inside Indian territory that is


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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> Yes, & the map above shows Kargil district, inside Indian territory that is


Actually it shows southern part of Kargil within India.


----------



## 53fd

jayron said:


> LOL too brutal for me to handle ..
> 
> You weren't able to give a straight reply for why your gentle man Jinnah sent thugs to fight the Indian army instead of fighting face to face. You are giving a list of India's territorial disputes instead. Try to comprehend the question first. Then you can take pride in your intellect.


 
This is what you said before:



jayron said:


> Thats because your hate filled nation started showing its true face even before establishing her self. The King ceded Kashmir to India after Mr.Jinnah the trustworthy gentleman sent tribal terrorists to fight just like you guys do now.* I seriously doubt Pakistan would have been any different even if Jinnah had lived any longer.*


 
Now exposing your argument one by one:



> The King ceded Kashmir to India



No international body accepts your article of accession, because it quite simply didn't happen, & Kashmir is disputed territory. It's quite unbelievable as to how brainwashed you are by propaganda. 

*It doesn't matter if Jinnah sent his forces first, you forged a document to grab hold of a land that didn't belong to you, which instigated Jinnah to send troops there. You also sent your forces first into Hyderabad Daccan & Junagarh.*



---------- Post added at 10:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 AM ----------




toxic_pus said:


> Actually it shows southern part of Kargil within India.


 
Where does the map show Kargil inside Pakistan?


----------



## Abu Zolfiqar

how did Kashmir figure here?

interesting how those indian use the term "hateful nation" when in fact they are the ones imposing their will (through force and steel-fisted occupation) on the Kashmiri peoples

a peoples who since 1947 have never had aspirations to join hindustan..........

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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> Where does the map show Kargil inside Pakistan?


Where did I claim that it does.


----------



## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> Actually it shows southern part of Kargil within India.





toxic_pus said:


> *Where did I claim that it does.*


 
*HERE!!!* These are pictures of the Kargil district, & never have they been inside Pakistan, or Pakistan's side of the LOC:












Stop embarrassing yourself further. If you had one iota of self-respect, you'd shut your mouth now & would stop fabricating lies about the Karachi Agreement 1949


----------



## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> Now exposing your argument one by one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The King ceded Kashmir to India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No international body accepts your article of accession, because it quite simply didn't happen, & Kashmir is disputed territory. It's quite unbelievable as to how brainwashed you are by propaganda.
> 
> *It doesn't matter if Jinnah sent his forces first, you forged a document to grab hold of a land that didn't belong to you, which instigated Jinnah to send troops there. You also sent your forces first into Hyderabad Daccan & Junagarh.*
Click to expand...

UN never disputed the Instrument of Accession.


----------



## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> UN never disputed the Instrument of Accession.


 
It has, which is why Kashmir is *'Disputed Territory (Pakistan's position)'* in all the UN Mandates, not the 'Integral Part of India (India's position)'.


----------



## jayron

bilalhaider said:


> This is what you said before:
> 
> 
> 
> Now exposing your argument one by one:
> 
> The King ceded Kashmir to India
> 
> No international body accepts your article of accession, because it quite simply didn't happen, & Kashmir is disputed territory. It's quite unbelievable as to how brainwashed you are by propaganda.
> 
> *It doesn't matter if Jinnah sent his forces first, you forged a document to grab hold of a land that didn't belong to you, which instigated Jinnah to send troops there. You also sent your forces first into Hyderabad Daccan & Junagarh.*
> 
> 
> 
> ---------- Post added at 10:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Where does the map show Kargil inside Pakistan?


 
The King of Kashmir ceded Kashmir to India. If you don't know this you are the one from brainwashed madrassa. Not me. 

We sent troops to Hyderabad and Junagand like real men do. Not some half baked tribal hooligans just because your soldiers are too scared to fight.


----------



## 53fd

jayron said:


> The King of Kashmir ceded Kashmir to India. If you don't know this you are the one from brainwashed madrassa. Not me.



Then why doesn't the UN accept India's position that "Kashmir is the integral part of India"?



> We sent troops to Hyderabad and Junagand like real men do. Not some half baked tribal hooligans just because your soldiers are too scared to fight.


 
You sent troops for the forceful occupation of the areas like you did with Kashmir. Hardly praiseworthy (forceful occupation of people & their kings) I should say, don't you think?


----------



## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> *HERE!!!* These are pictures of the Kargil district, & never have they been inside Pakistan, or Pakistan's side of the LOC:
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Kargil.map.gif
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...il_District.svg/764px-Kargil_District.svg.png
> 
> Stop embarrassing yourself further. If you had one iota of self-respect, you'd shut your mouth now & would stop fabricating lies about the Karachi Agreement 1949


Yes. So. In the second picture, marked by red, the lower part of Kargil was added from Ladakh in 1979 (I have to check the name of the block though).


----------



## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> You are more dense than I thought. Here it is once again. Tabulated for you. Read S L O W L Y.
> 
> 1. Whole of Kashmir is ours because the ruler acceded Kashmir to India.



The UN doesn't accept it (read my previous post). The rest of your argument is hence moot


----------



## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> It has, which is why Kashmir is *'Disputed Territory (Pakistan's position)'* in all the UN Mandates, not the 'Integral Part of India (India's position)'.


Can you please refer me to the UN resolution, or any UN document, where UN disputed Instrument of Accession.

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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> Yes. So. In the second picture, marked by red, the lower part of Kargil was added from Ladakh in 1979 (I have to check the name of the block though).


 
Yes, but none of the Kargil District was inside Pakistan's Line of Control Area, & your lies have been brutally exposed.


----------



## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> Then why doesn't the UN accept India's position that "Kashmir is the integral part of India"?


Because India agreed that opinion of the people would be taken to finalize accession.

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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> Because India agreed that opinion of the people would be taken to finalize accession.



It doesn't matter what the people think, because Kashmiris haven't gotten their independent homeland from India. It doesn't matter what the people think because you forcefully took over Hyderabad & Junagarh by sending your troops there without any UN intervention. It's clear that the authenticity of the article of accession has not been verified by the UN.


----------



## jayron

bilalhaider said:


> Then why doesn't the UN accept India's position that "Kashmir is the integral part of India"?
> 
> 
> 
> You sent troops for the forceful occupation of the areas like you did with Kashmir. Hardly praiseworthy (forceful occupation of people & their kings) I should say, don't you think?


 
We Indians are no angels.if thats what you are trying to prove. But we are a million times better than Pakistan in these issues. It is not without reason that Pakisatn has such a bad reputation worldwide.


----------



## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> Yes, but none of the Kargil District was inside Pakistan's Line of Control Area, & your lies have been brutally exposed.


Holly cow. The Kargil district today consists of parts of Ladakh. Kargil then didn't have the same boundaries. Karachi agreement resulted in bifurcation of northern peaks of Kargil, which remained with Pakistan while the bulk, the southern part, remained with India. During 65 India went ahead and captured not just these peaks but Haji Pir Pass as well. But gave it all away.

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## 53fd

jayron said:


> We Indians are no angels.if thats what you are trying to prove. But we are a million times better than Pakistan in these issues. It is not without reason that Pakisatn has such a bad reputation worldwide.


 
Don't worry about Pakistan, try to fix yourselves first


----------



## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> The UN doesn't accept it (read my previous post). The rest of your argument is hence moot


But that was never the point. Whether UN excepts it or not is moot. Your point was 'since India considers all of Kashmir as integral part.... '. All your arguments were hinging on what India considered.

At least have some integrity and not shift posts according to whim.

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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> Holly cow. The Kargil district today consists of parts of Ladakh. Kargil then didn't have the same boundaries. Karachi agreement resulted in bifurcation of northern peaks of Kargil, which remained with Pakistan while the bulk, the southern part, remained with India. During 65 India went ahead and captured not just these peaks but Haji Pir Pass as well. But gave it all away.


 
Kargil district is a Ladakh. Ladakh comes under J&K, & no part of Ladakh comes or has ever come inside Pakistan. *The Kargil district has always remained the same. Haji Pir Pass was never part of Kargil District*. Another exposition


----------



## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> It doesn't matter what the people think, because Kashmiris haven't gotten their independent homeland from India. It doesn't matter what the people think because you forcefully took over Hyderabad & Junagarh by sending your troops there without any UN intervention.


Ignorance is not just bliss. It is power as well. 



> It's clear that the authenticity of the article of accession has not been verified by the UN.


Irrelevant. Unless you can cite a UN document where UN disputes IoA, all your points are like tissue after a wipe.


----------



## jayron

bilalhaider said:


> Don't worry about Pakistan, try to fix yourselves first


 
look who's talking! How is Khalistan in any way related to you? The maximum no. of posts in this thread are by you and you are asking me to take care of my country first.

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## notsuperstitious

jayron said:


> look who's talking! How is Khalistan in any way related to you? The maximum no. of posts in this thread are by you and you are asking me to take care of my country first.


 
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Buddy, I don't think he knows what he is saying, cut him some slack before he starts posting pictures of Indian slums. Its quite volatile there.

Lets open a few Balochistan threads here and see how long you are tolerated.

Samza karo.

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## 53fd

toxic_pus said:


> Ignorance is not just bliss. It is power as well.
> 
> 
> Irrelevant. Unless you can cite a UN document where UN disputes IoA, all your points are like tissue after a wipe.


 
If you choose to live in your delusional state of denial, I can't really help you


----------



## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> Kargil district is a Ladakh. Ladakh comes under J&K, & no part of Ladakh comes or has ever come inside Pakistan. *The Kargil district has always remained the same. Haji Pir Pass was never part of Kargil District*. Another exposition



Never claimed Haji pir was part of Kargil. Btw, you forgot to add 'brutal' before exposition.

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## toxic_pus

bilalhaider said:


> If you choose to live in your delusional state of denial, I can't really help you


Sure. But how about those UN documents. Any plans to cite those documents where UN disputes IoA.


----------



## toxic_pus

With apologies to my good friend who reminded me a few minutes ago, of the futility of continuing in this thread, one last post about Kargil. 

Earlier I had mentioned that Kargil was part of Pakistan as per Karachi Agreement 1949. I am guilty of not being specific. Actually it was Kargil Heights, the northern part of Kargil district. I was accused of lying. The link below explains it in brief. It is written by Mr Javed Hussain and was published by Dawn (although the link is from his personal blog).



> In October 1947, following the announcement of Kashmirs accession to India, the Gilgit Scouts, a predominantly Muslim force raised by the British for internal security, revolted against the Dogras, and in a series of daring actions in1948 captured Kargil, Drass, Zoji La Pass and Skardu. However, in November 1948, Zoji La Pass and Kargil were recaptured by the Indians while *the Kargil heights remained with the Gilgit Scouts.* <Karachi Agreement validated this, next year, in 1949>
> 
> During the Rann of Kutch conflict, *these heights were captured by the Indians for the first time on May 17, 1965*, for use as a bargaining counter in the negotiations. As a result of the agreement reached, *the heights were returned to Pakistan in June 1965* <This was as per UNMOGIP treaty>. In the first week of August 1965, Operation Gibraltar was launched. One of the areas used by the infiltrating force was the Kargil heights. To block these routes, *the Indians captured the heights for the second time in the third week of August 1965. But after the signing of the Tashkent Agreement, the heights were once again returned to Pakistan*.
> 
> On the outbreak of war on the western front on December 3, 1971, *the Indians captured the heights for the third time on December 9, 1971. This time, however, they retained the heights* in line with the Shimla Agreement under which the violable Cease Fire Line (CFL), created in December 1948 on cessation of hostilities in Kashmir, was converted into an inviolable Line of Control (LoC), on the basis of actual possession of territory at the time of the ceasefire in December 1971.



Source

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## Marwari

Rafi said:


> Lahore is a Pakistani City, and Khalistan would potentially be formed from indian Punjab.


 
Yup better get your facts straight missy, 

khalistan if there was ever gonna be one, would include Indian Punjab as well as pakistan punjab


----------



## KS

bilalhaider said:


> Who's including it twice? Pakistan* today* occupies 85,846 km^2 of the total Kashmir. This does not include the 5,800 km^2 of the Shaksam valley that it won from India, & gave to China.
> 
> Hence, the area Pakistan won from India was: 91,646/224739 = 41%


 
Wrong.

Shaksgam Valley comes under Northern Areas and the figure 85,846 km^2 is including Shaksgam Valley.

Did not Wiki tell you that ? 



bilalhaider said:


> In the same way, India won zero km^2 from Pakistan in 1971. Call it even?


 
We did not win a single square km.

We just cut the birthday cake (United Pakistan) and gave away half the cake to the Bengalis.

Ofcourse the kick obtained in seeing Pakistan's abject and complete surrender, we becoming the only nation after WW II to administer the birth of a new country and the yoga sessions of more than 90,000 POWs behind bars are different from that 



bilalhaider said:


> Just like Pakistan sliced up 41% of the integral territory of *yours*



Not our's. It was then the Independent Princely state of Kashmir that was raped by Tribal hordes.

And as Vinod said only after that Kashmir became an Indian state and once the IA landed in Sri Nagar airport all they could see was the back of the Tribal hordes putting the Olympic long distance runners to shame.



bilalhaider said:


> If you choose to live in your delusional state of denial, I can't really help you


 
You could have just said - "_I don't know what the hell I was talking about UN documents"._

Seen this type far too often.

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## Punjabbi Munda

Kithey da Khalistan? We have forgot the past and are now living peacefully with each others..Sikhs and Hindus have such great similarities...Guru Granthsahib also has frequent use of word 'Ram' Besides,Sikh form a major part of Indian Army Sikh Regiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
We celebrate Lohri,Holi,Diwali together our style of marriages,praying and worshiping god is very much the same.
So Pakistanis thinking of differences between Sikhs and Hindus today...buzz off!!

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## Punjabbi Munda

Kithey da Khalistan? We have forgot the past and are now living peacefully with each other..Sikhs and Hindus have such great similarities...Guru Granthsahib also has frequent use of word 'Ram' Besides,Sikh form a major part of Indian Army Sikh Regiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
We celebrate Lohri,Holi,Diwali together our style of marriages,praying and worshiping god is very much the same.
So Pakistanis thinking of differences between Sikhs and Hindus today...buzz off!!


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## Rafi

And the indians have been doing yoga in front of us, for a thousand years.


----------



## Prometheus

Rafi said:


> And the indians have been doing yoga in front of us, for a thousand years.


 
And before 1947 ..............was whole India of that time doing it?

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## Varad

Karthic Sri said:


> We just cut the birthday cake (United Pakistan) and gave away half the cake to the Bengalis.
> 
> Ofcourse the kick obtained in seeing Pakistan's abject and complete surrender, we becoming the only nation after WW II to administer the birth of a new country and the yoga sessions of more than 90,000 POWs.


 
Thats called Zor ka Jhatka Zor se laga.


----------



## Vinod2070

I love the mental gymnastics of these converts. Na ghar ka, na ghat ka.

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## Rafi

Marwari said:


> Yup better get your facts straight missy,
> 
> khalistan if there was ever gonna be one, would include Indian Punjab as well as pakistan punjab


 
Pakistani Punjab belongs to us, come and get it - if you can.


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> I love the mental gymnastics of these converts. Na ghar ka, na ghat ka.


 
It's alright son, one day you might just understand, until then keep your studies going.

---------- Post added at 07:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 PM ----------




Prometheus said:


> And before 1947 ..............was whole India of that time doing it?


 
English ????


----------



## metro

Vinod2070 said:


> I love the mental gymnastics of these converts. Na ghar ka, na ghat ka.


 
Haha.. dont be so inhumane yar. Have some mercy on them.

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## foxbat

Punjabbi Munda said:


> Kithey da Khalistan? We have forgot the past and are now living peacefully with each other..Sikhs and Hindus have such great similarities...Guru Granthsahib also has frequent use of word 'Ram' Besides,Sikh form a major part of Indian Army Sikh Regiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> We celebrate Lohri,Holi,Diwali together our style of marriages,praying and worshiping god is very much the same.
> So Pakistanis thinking of differences between Sikhs and Hindus today...buzz off!!


 
Anyone who knows the history of Sikhism and why the foundation of Sikhism was laid, will know what will happen if Khalistan is made.. Guess by handling the situation of Khalistan, India did a huge favor to Pakistan


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> Haha.. dont be so inhumane yar. Have some mercy on them.


 
We are very merciful to indian's, my Grand Father - helped a lot of Sikh and Hindu - get to the border at independence - he protected them - those people are still thankful - he being the Land Owner and them being the workers, he felt it was his responsibility.


----------



## xTra

Rafi said:


> Pakistani Punjab belongs to us, come and get it - if you can.



Insahallah, one day this would happen.

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## foxbat

Rafi said:


> We are very merciful to indian's, my Grand Father - helped a lot of Sikh and Hindu - get to the border at independence - he protected them - those people are still thankful - he being the Land Owner and them being the workers, he felt it was his responsibility.


 
Good for him.. Its people like him and similar instances in India that probably saved thousands of lives.. God bless him

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## jayron

Rafi said:


> Pakistani Punjab belongs to us, come and get it - if you can.


 
We don't need it. The Khalistanis will capture it and form a Sikh empire.


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## Rafi

xTra said:


> Insahallah, one day this would happen.


 
Never will happen as long as a single drop of blood, remains in my Jatt people - we are the sword arm of our Pakistani State.


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## Varad

Rafi said:


> Pakistani Punjab belongs to us, come and get it - if you can.


 
Why would India come to get it. the Khalistanis are gonna come for it. After seeing their failure in India, they are trying to see if they get some success in Pakistan's Punjab side.

Khalistani terrorists trying to settle down permanently in Pak
All the best


----------



## Rafi

jayron said:


> We don't need it. The Khalistanis will capture it and form a Sikh empire.


 
And we also shall see snow flakes in hell, and pigs will also miraculously fly on that day.


----------



## Rafi

foxbat said:


> Good for him.. Its people like him and similar instances in India that probably saved thousands of lives.. God bless him


 
Brother he saw it as his duty, we could not betray the Sufi that converted us to this great religion. He made sure that they crossed the border - safe and sound and protected their women folk also.


----------



## foxbat

Rafi said:


> And we also shall see snow flakes in hell, and pigs will also miraculously fly on that day.


 
You sure no one said something similar way back in 1971 when East Pakistan was demanding independence..


----------



## Rafi

Varad said:


> Why would India come to get it. the Khalistanis are gonna come for it. After seeing their failure in India, they are trying to see if they get some success in Pakistan's Punjab side.
> 
> &#8216;Khalistani terrorists trying to settle down permanently in Pak&#8217;
> All the best


 
Wow, Sikh's are trying to settle in Pakistan - and trying to escape india, lol they are most welcome, a lot of Sikh's live in Nankana Sahib

Nankana Sahib (Shahmukhi: &#1606;&#1606;&#1705;&#1575;&#1606;&#1729; &#1589;&#1575;&#1581;&#1576;, Gurmukhi: &#2600;&#2600;&#2581;&#2622;&#2595;&#2622; &#2616;&#2622;&#2617;&#2623;&#2604, earlier known as Rai-Bhoi-Di-Talwandi, is a city in the Pakistani province of Punjab. It is named after the first Guru of the Sikhs, Guru Nanak Dev, the central figure in Sikhism who was born here, so it is a city of high historic and religious value and is a popular pilgrimage site for Sikhs from all over the world.. It is located about 80 kilometers south west of Lahore and about 75 kilometres east of Faisalabad, with a population of approximately 60,000.[1]It is also the capital of Nankana Sahib District and Tehsil.


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## jayron

Rafi said:


> And we also shall see snow flakes in hell, and *pigs will also miraculously fly on that day*.


 
Yes that will happen to offend your religious sensitivity.

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## Rafi

foxbat said:


> You sure no one said something similar way back in 1971 when East Pakistan was demanding independence..


 
We were outnumbered and surrounded on 3 sides by india, facing an insurgency - supplied and supported by your state, in Pakistani Punjab every warrior and civilian will stand like a wall against your troops.


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## foxbat

Rafi said:


> Wow, Sikh's are trying to settle in Pakistan - and trying to escape india, lol they are most welcome, a lot of Sikh's live in Nankana Sahib
> 
> Nankana Sahib (Shahmukhi: &#1606;&#1606;&#1705;&#1575;&#1606;&#1729; &#1589;&#1575;&#1581;&#1576;, Gurmukhi: &#2600;&#2600;&#2581;&#2622;&#2595;&#2622; &#2616;&#2622;&#2617;&#2623;&#2604, earlier known as Rai-Bhoi-Di-Talwandi, is a city in the Pakistani province of Punjab. It is named after the first Guru of the Sikhs, Guru Nanak Dev, the central figure in Sikhism who was born here, so it is a city of high historic and religious value and is a popular pilgrimage site for Sikhs from all over the world.. It is located about 80 kilometers south west of Lahore and about 75 kilometres east of Faisalabad, with a population of approximately 60,000.[1]It is also the capital of Nankana Sahib District and Tehsil.


 
See.. So a Khalistan with Lahore (or even Nankana Sahib as the capital is a pretty logical idea.


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## Rafi

jayron said:


> Yes that will happen to offend your religious sensitivity.


 
It doesn't affect me, I don't eat them, but they are also God's creatures.


----------



## Varad

Rafi said:


> Wow, Sikh's are trying to settle in Pakistan - and trying to escape india, lol they are most welcome, a lot of Sikh's live in Nankana Sahib
> 
> Nankana Sahib (Shahmukhi: &#1606;&#1606;&#1705;&#1575;&#1606;&#1729; &#1589;&#1575;&#1581;&#1576;, Gurmukhi: &#2600;&#2600;&#2581;&#2622;&#2595;&#2622; &#2616;&#2622;&#2617;&#2623;&#2604, earlier known as Rai-Bhoi-Di-Talwandi, is a city in the Pakistani province of Punjab. It is named after the first Guru of the Sikhs, Guru Nanak Dev, the central figure in Sikhism who was born here, so it is a city of high historic and religious value and is a popular pilgrimage site for Sikhs from all over the world.. It is located about 80 kilometers south west of Lahore and about 75 kilometres east of Faisalabad, with a population of approximately 60,000.[1]It is also the capital of Nankana Sahib District and Tehsil.


 
LOL. All all the best with khalistanis.


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## Rafi

foxbat said:


> See.. So a Khalistan with Lahore (or even Nankana Sahib as the capital is a pretty logical idea.


 
But the 80 million or so Punjabi's would never agree


----------



## foxbat

Rafi said:


> We were outnumbered and surrounded on 3 sides by india, facing an insurgency - supplied and supported by your state, in Pakistani Punjab every warrior and civilian will stand like a wall against your troops.


 
Again, I didnt say India will invade Pakistan. We certainly dont want to be nuked, you know.. And Pakistan now has the best 60 km range Nuclear missile..

All I mean is that events can turn just like they turned in 1971.. You dont know what situations pop up due to the whole terrorist situation in the Waziristan area and continuing terror and drone strikes..


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## metro

Rafi said:


> But the 80 million or so Punjabi's would never agree


 We know how to make them agree. We have experience with that. They know the drill of signing the papers.


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## Rafi

Varad said:


> LOL. All all the best with khalistanis.


 
Thank you, by the way - my brother is married to a beautiful Sikh girl, who had to leave your side of the Punjab - when the insurgency was going on, we love that girl like our own. So I have the right to talk on these matters, because of our family connections. 

---------- Post added at 08:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 PM ----------




foxbat said:


> Again, I didnt say India will invade Pakistan. We certainly dont want to be nuked, you know.. And Pakistan now has the best 60 km range Nuclear missile..
> 
> All I mean is that events can turn just like they turned in 1971.. You dont know what situations pop up due to the whole terrorist situation in the Waziristan area and continuing terror and drone strikes..


 
Not in the Punjab - they are very Patriotic Pakistani's and know how to fight.


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## foxbat

Rafi said:


> But the 80 million or so Punjabi's would never agree


 
Why.. It could be a good tourist spot for them for their annual vacation .. I mean travelling abroad to a Sikh country to visit their holy shrine.. Just like Jews of USA visiting Israel..


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## Rafi

metro said:


> We know how to make them agree. We have experience with that. They know the drill of signing the papers.


 
Come and try it, we Punjabi's are the best of friends, if you come in peace - if you come for war - we are the worst of enemies.


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## Rafi

foxbat said:


> Why.. It could be a good tourist spot for them for their annual vacation .. I mean travelling abroad to a Sikh country to visit their holy shrine.. Just like Jews of USA visiting Israel..


 
Lost in Translation??? the 80 million Punjabi's are proud Pakistani Patriots


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## metro

Rafi said:


> Come and try it, we Punjabi's are the best of friends, if you come in peace - if you come for war - we are the worst of enemies.


 
Sure, khalistanis would prove to be very good friends of yours..they will help you take off some of your burden. Khalistan with lahore as capital. sounds cool.


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## Abu Zolfiqar



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## Rafi

metro said:


> Sure, khalistanis would prove to be very good friends of yours..they will help you take off some of your burden. Khalistan with lahore as capital. sounds cool.


 
They already live in Pakistan - and the Pakistani Sikh's love Pakistan 






This is a Pakistani Sikh

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## metro

Why Sikhs love Pakistan.
I tell you why ..
Because Sikhs are not allowed to become PM/President in Pakistan.


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## metro

Rafi said:


> They already live in Pakistan - and the Pakistani Sikh's love Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a Pakistani Sikh


 
*And the poor guy will never be allowed to become a PM or a President in Pakistan even if he got all the capabilities of becoming so.
How bad.*


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## Abu Zolfiqar

they love Pakistan because they are more likely to be able to communicate with majority of Pakistani than they would with good chunk of hindustan which is either unable or unwilling to speak Punjabi or either hindi for that matter

also Pakistan is to Sikhs what Saudi Arabia is to Muslims 


every year their pilgrims come in huge numbers and are always sad to leave

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## Rafi

metro said:


> Why Sikhs love Pakistan.
> I tell you why ..
> Because Sikhs are not allowed to become PM/President in Pakistan.


 
We are a democratic country, and that can always be changed, we are like your friends Israel - we are a state that came into being on the basis of religious franchise - but in time - all Pakistanis will be able to hold the highest offices. We already have Hindu - Chief Justice, Christian Generals, and Parsi Foreign Ministers. 

*His Lordship Mr. Justice (retired) Rana Bhagwandas (Urdu: &#1585;&#1575;&#1606;&#1575; &#1576;&#1726;&#1711;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606; &#1583;&#1575;&#1587(Hindi: &#2352;&#2366;&#2339;&#2366; &#2349;&#2327;&#2357;&#2366;&#2344;&#2342;&#2366;&#2360; ) (b. December 20, 1942), a highly respected name of the Pakistani judiciary was a senior judge and former acting chief justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan (CJP). He remained the acting CJP during the 2007 judicial crisis in Pakistan and also briefly became the acting Chief Justice of Pakistan when the incumbent Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry went on foreign tours in 2005 and 2006,[1] and thus became the first Hindu and the second non-Muslim to serve as chief of the highest court in Pakistan.[2] Rana Bhagwandas is now working as the Chairman of Federal Public Service Commission of Pakistan. He is heading the interview panel for the selection of the Federal Civil Servants 2009.*

*Jamsheed Kaikobad Ardeshir Marker,[1] HI, (b. 24 November 1922) is a veteran Pakistani diplomat. Reportedly, he is listed in the Guinness Book of Records as having been ambassador to more countries than any other person.[2] He speaks English, Urdu, Gujarati, French, German, and Russian and was Pakistan's top envoy to the United States and more than a dozen other countries for more than three decades and earned the distinction as the world's longest-serving ambassador.[3]*

Just two of the many members of the minority to serve Pakistan.

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## metro

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> they love Pakistan because they are more likely to be able to communicate with majority of Pakistani than they would with good chunk of hindustan which is either unable or unwilling to speak Punjabi or either hindi for that matter
> 
> *also Pakistan is to Sikhs what Saudi Arabia is to Muslims*
> 
> 
> every year their pilgrims come in huge numbers and are always sad to leave


 
And despite that, poor Sikhs have no right to be the rulers in the land that they ruled once.
How shameful.
They cant become PM/President ever , this must be so painful for them.


----------



## Rafi

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> they love Pakistan because they are more likely to be able to communicate with majority of Pakistani than they would with good chunk of hindustan which is either unable or unwilling to speak Punjabi or either hindi for that matter
> 
> also Pakistan is to Sikhs what Saudi Arabia is to Muslims
> 
> 
> every year their pilgrims come in huge numbers and are always sad to leave


 
Exactly right - brother - they love Pakistan because their holy sites are in our country.

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## kingkobra

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> they love Pakistan because they are more likely to be able to communicate with majority of Pakistani than they would with good chunk of hindustan which is either unable or unwilling to speak Punjabi or either hindi for that matter
> 
> also Pakistan is to Sikhs what Saudi Arabia is to Muslims
> 
> 
> every year their pilgrims come in huge numbers and are always sad to leave


 
lol can you name at least one sikh who is lets say..ummm at least mayor of some city?? if you can give it to me then i will get convinced,otherwise stop posting BS here


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> And despite that, poor Sikhs have no right to be the rulers in the land that they ruled once.
> How shameful.
> They cant become PM/President ever , this must be so painful for them.


 
In time this will change, we are like Israel - where only a Jew can become PM or President.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> We are a democratic country, and that can always be changed, we are like your friends Israel - we are a state that came into being on the basis of religious franchise - but in time - all Pakistanis will be able to hold the highest offices. We already have Hindu - Chief Justice, Christian Generals, and Parsi Foreign Ministers.
> 
> *His Lordship Mr. Justice (retired) Rana Bhagwandas (Urdu: &#1585;&#1575;&#1606;&#1575; &#1576;&#1726;&#1711;&#1608;&#1575;&#1606; &#1583;&#1575;&#1587(Hindi: &#2352;&#2366;&#2339;&#2366; &#2349;&#2327;&#2357;&#2366;&#2344;&#2342;&#2366;&#2360; ) (b. December 20, 1942), a highly respected name of the Pakistani judiciary was a senior judge and former acting chief justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan (CJP). He remained the acting CJP during the 2007 judicial crisis in Pakistan and also briefly became the acting Chief Justice of Pakistan when the incumbent Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry went on foreign tours in 2005 and 2006,[1] and thus became the first Hindu and the second non-Muslim to serve as chief of the highest court in Pakistan.[2] Rana Bhagwandas is now working as the Chairman of Federal Public Service Commission of Pakistan. He is heading the interview panel for the selection of the Federal Civil Servants 2009.*
> 
> *Jamsheed Kaikobad Ardeshir Marker,[1] HI, (b. 24 November 1922) is a veteran Pakistani diplomat. Reportedly, he is listed in the Guinness Book of Records as having been ambassador to more countries than any other person.[2] He speaks English, Urdu, Gujarati, French, German, and Russian and was Pakistan's top envoy to the United States and more than a dozen other countries for more than three decades and earned the distinction as the world's longest-serving ambassador.[3]*
> 
> Just two of the many members of the minority to serve Pakistan.


 
Ya Ya Ya ... we will do this this, we will do that.
One could understand the pain of these minorities who even after spending their whole life, have no right to be the PM/President in that country.

They have to always spend their life as second class citizens. I could understand their plight.


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## xTra

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> they love Pakistan because they are more likely to be able to communicate with majority of Pakistani than they would with good chunk of hindustan which is either unable or unwilling to speak Punjabi or either hindi for that matter
> 
> also Pakistan is to Sikhs what Saudi Arabia is to Muslims
> 
> every year their pilgrims come in huge numbers and are always sad to leave



They are Pakistani, so they should love Pakistan, but the reason you are giving are absurd.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> In time this will change, we are like Israel - where only a Jew can become PM or President.


 
Yes thats what Im saying. Poor Sikhs are not allowed to become rulers in Pakistan. How shameful.
BTW can anyone give me the logic behind this inhumane discrimination.

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## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> in Pakistani Punjab every warrior and civilian will stand like a wall against your troops.


 
Yes, the history stands witness to their bravery. 

Do I have to tell you that it was a joke.

Every comer just rolled over these people. They were given a fight only in lands now in India. These people just rolled over and played dead throughout history or worse became mercenaries.

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## Rafi

metro said:


> Ya Ya Ya ... we will do this this, we will do that.
> One could understand the pain of these minorities who even after spending their whole life, have no right to be the PM/President in that country.
> 
> They have to always spend their life as second class citizens. I could understand their plight.


 
They will get that right, but they still hate india


----------



## metro

Vinod2070 said:


> Yes, the history stands witness to their bravery.
> 
> Do I have to tell you that it was a joke.
> 
> Every comer just rolled over these people. They were given a fight only in lands now in India. These people just rolled over and played dead throughout history or worse became mercenaries.


 
I know what he is going to come up with now..
He would now say they were not Pakistanis but Indians who got beaten throughout the history.


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> Yes, the history stands witness to their bravery.
> 
> Do I have to tell you that it was a joke.
> 
> Every comer just rolled over these people. They were given a fight only in lands now in India. These people just rolled over and played dead throughout history or worse became mercenaries.


 
Why are you burning for, if you dare to come - we will sort it out


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## metro

Rafi said:


> They will get that right, but they still hate india


 
Im sure they love Khalistan with Lahore as capital. Poor guys cant even become Pm/Presidents. Talk of minority rights eh... shameful.


----------



## kingkobra

Nankana Sahib District - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

any sikh in administrators names of Nankana Sahib District??


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> I know what he is going to come up with now..
> He would now say they were not Pakistanis but Indians who got beaten throughout the history.


 
Of course, most of Pakistan has been Islamic for at least a millennium.


----------



## foxbat

Rafi said:


> Thank you, by the way - my brother is married to a beautiful Sikh girl, who had to leave your side of the Punjab - when the insurgency was going on, we love that girl like our own. So I have the right to talk on these matters, because of our family connections.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 08:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Not in the Punjab - they are very Patriotic Pakistani's and know how to fight.


 
Hindsight is 20-20
I am sure in 1960's Bengalis were also very loyal to Pakistan.. Before your govt pushed them away


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## metro

Rafi said:


> Of course, most of Pakistan has been Islamic for at least a millennium.


 
And they have been beaten up throughout the history. First by Invaders, then by India.

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## foxbat

Rafi said:


> Lost in Translation??? the 80 million Punjabi's are proud Pakistani Patriots


 
Oh! I thought you meant the real Punjab..

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## Rafi

metro said:


> Im sure they love Khalistan with Lahore as capital. Poor guys cant even become Pm/Presidents. Talk of minority rights eh... shameful.


 
What is really shameful is the state sanctioned genocide of 1984. When are the culprits going to be convicted.


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## Vinod2070

xTra said:


> They are Pakistani, so they should love Pakistan, but the reason you are giving are absurd.


 
Their holy places are held hostage by the converts and invaders.

One day, we will liberate those holy places. That is history's debt on us.

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## Rafi

foxbat said:


> Hindsight is 20-20
> I am sure in 1960's Bengalis were also very loyal to Pakistan.. Before your govt pushed them away


 
Pakistani Punjabi are a different breed, we hate india from the inside out 

---------- Post added at 08:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 PM ----------




foxbat said:


> Oh! I thought you meant the real Punjab..


 
ie Pakistan Punjab


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> What is really shameful is the state sanctioned genocide of 1984. When are the culprits going to be convicted.


 
That is upto our Sikh PM to decide. But sad to know Sikhs cant even become PM in your country.


----------



## Vinod2070

More Shia, Ahmedis, Sufis, Barelvis, tribals and even Punjabi Sunnis are being killed in Pakistan as we speak.

Yet these converts obsess with decades old events in India!


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> And they have been beaten up throughout the history. First by Invaders, then by India.


 
Yeah, poor weak indians - ruled by everyone - which person would like to be indian the most poor hungry nation in the world.


----------



## SpArK

Rafi said:


> Pakistani Punjabi are a different breed, we hate india from the inside out
> 
> ---------- Post added at 08:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> ie Pakistan Punjab


 
You dont need to repeat that in every other post.. Everybody knows it... and replies to you accordingly.


----------



## kingkobra

Rafi said:


> What is really shameful is the state sanctioned genocide of 1984. When are the culprits going to be convicted.


 
at least everyone knows about this unlike many minorities getting raped and murdered and forced to pay jiziya in pakistan..


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> Their holy places are held hostage by the converts and invaders.
> 
> One day, we will liberate those holy places. That is history's debt on us.


 
Try it son, come on please.


----------



## foxbat

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> they love Pakistan because they are more likely to be able to communicate with majority of Pakistani than they would with good chunk of hindustan which is either unable or unwilling to speak Punjabi or either hindi for that matter
> 
> also Pakistan is to Sikhs what Saudi Arabia is to Muslims
> 
> 
> every year their pilgrims come in huge numbers and are always sad to leave


 
And thats why it makes most sense for them to make it so that they carve that region out as a Sikh holy land.. Like jews did with Israel. And then that becomes the focal point for jews all over the world. With Nankana sahib , it could be the same with Sikhs


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> Yeah, poor weak indians - ruled by everyone - which person would like to be indian the most poor hungry nation in the world.


 
Oh...Now they become Indians. so quick haan.
You guys have been crying all over internet about ancient Pakistan, then why say India now.
Loosers..


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> More Shia, Ahmedis, Sufis, Barelvis, tribals and even Punjabi Sunnis are being killed in Pakistan as we speak.
> 
> Yet these converts obsess with decades old events in India!
> 
> ---------- Post added at 09:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 PM ----------
> 
> More Shia, Ahmedis, Sufis, Barelvis, tribals and even Punjabi Sunnis are being killed in Pakistan as we speak.
> 
> Yet these converts obsess with decades old events in India!


 
Yeah but because we produce millions of tons of grains on our fertile fields, we don't starve - we are the best farmers in the world.


----------



## kingkobra

Rafi said:


> Yeah, poor weak indians - ruled by everyone - which person would like to be indian the most poor hungry nation in the world.


 
yes no one wants to be Indian,at least born rich paksitanis


----------



## Rafi

foxbat said:


> And thats why it makes most sense for them to make it so that they carve that region out as a Sikh holy land.. Like jews did with Israel. And then that becomes the focal point for jews all over the world. With Nankana sahib , it could be the same with Sikhs


 
Then we will make it the grave ground for the poor indian soldiers, when they are taken prisoner - at least the poor souls will get a sandwich


----------



## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> Why are you burning for, if you dare to come - we will sort it out


 
We will come one day. To liberate you from the tyranny of the invaders.

Just wait if you are the lucky one to see it in your lifetime.

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## foxbat

Rafi said:


> Of course, most of Pakistan has been Islamic for at least a millennium.


 
And yet you lay claim on the Indus valley civilization (which was way before any one uttered the word Muslim for the 1st time) 

heh heh...

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## metro

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Rafi

kingkobra said:


> yes no one wants to be Indian,at least born rich paksitanis


 
He is one Pakistani who has a platform in a free and democratic press, but the vast majority of Pakistani's dislike you


----------



## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> Of course, most of Pakistan has been Islamic for *at least a millennium*.


 
It doesn't matter. It doesn't change the history of the land.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> He is one Pakistani who has a platform in a free and democratic press, but the vast majority of Pakistani's dislike you


 
Thankfully he is not a Sikh. Else the poor guy would not have been allowed to become PM/President.


----------



## foxbat

Rafi said:


> What is really shameful is the state sanctioned genocide of 1984. When are the culprits going to be convicted.


 
Right after you punish the people who indulged in the Bengali genocide.. We want to learn from you (for once) on how to handle barbaric criminals considering you have many times more of those in Pakistan (TTP, people involved in east Pakistan genocide and all)


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> We will come one day. To liberate you from the tyranny of the invaders.
> 
> Just wait if you are the lucky one to see it in your lifetime.


 
Ha ha we will liberate you my poor dalit friend from the oppression of the brahmins - we will be bringing lovely meat sandwiches for you all.


----------



## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> Yeah but because we produce millions of tons of grains on *our fertile fields*, we don't starve - we are the best farmers in the world.


 
That has nothing to do with your forced conversion!


----------



## foxbat

Rafi said:


> Pakistani Punjabi are a different breed, we hate india from the inside out
> 
> ---------- Post added at 08:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> ie Pakistan Punjab


 
Only Punjabis?? how about Balochistanis, or Sindhis?? Are they like Bengalis of East Pakistan?


----------



## Rafi

foxbat said:


> And yet you lay claim on the Indus valley civilization (which was way before any one uttered the word Muslim for the 1st time)
> 
> heh heh...


 

Because it belongs to us, not to the poor indians - it is our Virsa - Ancient Pakistan.

---------- Post added at 08:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------




Vinod2070 said:


> It doesn't matter. It doesn't change the history of the land.


 
Yes it does, the land is also your enemy now.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> Because it belongs to us, not to the poor indians - it is our Virsa -* Ancient Pakistan.*


 
That was thrashed and plundered by the same invaders who u worship today ?


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> Thankfully he is not a Sikh. Else the poor guy would not have been allowed to become PM/President.


 
All Pakistani's have freedom of press, at least he was not a poor Sikh in '84 being massacred.


----------



## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> Ha ha we will liberate you my poor dalit friend from the oppression of the brahmins - we will be bringing lovely meat sandwiches for you all.


 
You guys are all dalit converts yourself. 

We will save you Ajlafs from the invader Ashrafs. Just hang in tight there.


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## lkozhi

Rafi said:


> Yeah, poor weak indians - ruled by everyone - which person would like to be indian the most poor hungry nation in the world.


glad that pakistanis are not poor and were never ruled by turks,mongols,afghan warlords or british
we are in same bed bro...


----------



## kingkobra

Rafi said:


> He is one Pakistani who has a platform in a free and democratic press, but the vast majority of Pakistani's dislike you


 
ohhh no i am so sad that pakistani's dislike us..
how will i ever get out of my home  

Pakistanis pose as Indians after NY bomb scare | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia | DAWN.COM


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## Rafi

foxbat said:


> Only Punjabis?? how about Balochistanis, or Sindhis?? Are they like Bengalis of East Pakistan?


 
All Pakistanis are my brothers, Pakistanis of what ever ethnicity are my brothers and sisters.

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## foxbat

Rafi said:


> Then we will make it the grave ground for the poor indian soldiers, when they are taken prisoner - at least the poor souls will get a sandwich


 
Arre. You are not reading right.. I never said we will attack Pak.. We are scared of your 60 Km range Nuclear missile, which any Subedar of your new and improved Fauj can fire on the Indian armor at the very 1st sight of them. I hear that now One of those missile is a part of standard Sipahi kit issued to Paksitani army men.. Along with his G3

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## metro

Vinod2070 said:


> You guys are all dalit converts yourself.
> 
> We will save you Ajlafs from the invader Ashrafs. Just hang in tight there.


 Haha.. he is a dalit shia.

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## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> You guys are all dalit converts yourself.
> 
> We will save you Ajlafs from the invader Ashrafs. Just hang in tight there.


 
Dalit - my son - I am a Jatt, you write like an inferiority complex ridden Dalit.


----------



## metro

kingkobra said:


> ohhh no i am so sad that pakistani's dislike us..
> how will i ever get out of my home
> 
> Pakistanis pose as Indians after NY bomb scare | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia | DAWN.COM


 
Yar ye hamara naam be mitti me milaenge...


----------



## kingkobra

Rafi said:


> All Pakistani's have freedom of press, at least he was not a poor Sikh in '84 being massacred.


 
and yet a Sikh is our PM while there is no sikh administrator even in nankana sahib..irony thy name is life


----------



## foxbat

metro said:


> That was thrashed and plundered by the same invaders who u worship today ?


 
Talk about Stockholm syndrome.. Or if you cant beat them, convert

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## metro

Rafi said:


> Dalit - my son - I am a Jatt, you write like an inferiority complex ridden Dalit.


 
Oh.. so the famous pet word has come up again...  
so ure a converted jatt..??


----------



## kingkobra

metro said:


> Yar ye hamara naam be mitti me milaenge...


 
nahi to kya yar...


----------



## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> Yes it does, the land is also your enemy now.


 
It remains one corner of our holy land of India.

It is no enemy, not even the converts are necessarily enemies.

We know they were forced into it, had no real choice in the matter.


----------



## Rafi

kingkobra said:


> ohhh no i am so sad that pakistani's dislike us..
> how will i ever get out of my home
> 
> Pakistanis pose as Indians after NY bomb scare | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia | DAWN.COM


 















Here are proud Patriotic Pakistani American's.


----------



## KS

Rafi said:


> But the 80 million or so Punjabi's would never agree


 
lol this guy is funny -- he thinks 80 million will not agree to Khalistan but another 1.2 billion (including the Indian Sikhs) will miraculously agree to it. 



Rafi said:


> Come and try it, we Punjabi's are the best of friends, if you come in peace - if you come for war - we are the worst of enemies.


 
Chest thumping over the internet. So cute 



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> also Pakistan is to Sikhs what Saudi Arabia is to Muslims



Harmandar Saheb aka the Golden Temple is in Pakistan ?

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## foxbat

Rafi said:


> All Pakistanis are my brothers, Pakistanis of what ever ethnicity are my brothers and sisters.


 
I am glad.. I was a little taken aback by your continuous reference to only Punjabi Pakistanis as Brave, loyal etc.. I thought you were as suspicious of Balochistani and Sindhi citizens due to the bad experience with Bengalis of east Pakistan


----------



## Rafi

foxbat said:


> Talk about Stockholm syndrome.. Or if you cant beat them, convert


 
Deluded indians with their inferiority complex.

---------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------




metro said:


> Oh.. so the famous pet word has come up again...
> so ure a converted jatt..??


 
Not converted, reverted to the original religion


----------



## metro

Karthic Sri said:


> lol this guy is funny -- he thinks 80 million will not agree to Khalistan but another 1.2 billion (including the Indian Sikhs) will miraculously agree to it.


 
Its hilarious to see them coming one after another and getting thrashed here.
One comes, gets beaten, leaves, then comes another and get the same treatment.
Yet they dont seem to learn anything.


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> It remains one corner of our holy land of India.
> 
> It is no enemy, not even the converts are necessarily enemies.
> 
> We know they were forced into it, had no real choice in the matter.


 
This is the famous inferiority complex, poor deluded indian's and their rss textbooks.


----------



## kingkobra

Rafi said:


> Here are proud Patriotic Pakistani American's.


 
lMr.headline reader...the article says that businessmen and also employees who want to get jobs are using Indian identities....if only you could understand that..


----------



## foxbat

Rafi said:


> Deluded indians with their inferiority complex.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Not converted, reverted to the original religion


 
When was Islam established 1st??If you know..


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> Not converted, reverted to the original religion


Reverted after being thrashed, looted and raped.

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## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> Dalit - my son - I am a Jatt, you write like an inferiority complex ridden Dalit.


 
The converts are lower than the Dalits in the caste hierarchy, not that I believe in caste.

You should know this simple fact.

Again, the converts are lower than dalits.


----------



## kingkobra

Rafi said:


> This is the famous inferiority complex, poor deluded indian's and their rss textbooks.


 
ohh poor us...even pakistanis pretend to be Indians abroad...our inferiority complex is so obvious


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> Its hilarious to see them coming one after another and getting thrashed here.
> One comes, gets beaten, leaves, then comes another and get the same treatment.
> Yet they dont seem to learn anything.


 
It's only the poor indians that have been thrashed for a thousand years.


----------



## metro

kingkobra said:


> ohh poor us...even pakistanis pretend to be Indians abroad...our inferiority complex is so obvious


Somebody please tell these guys not to pose as Indians when abroad.


----------



## Prometheus

Rafi said:


> We are very merciful to indian's, my Grand Father - helped a lot of Sikh and Hindu - get to the border at independence - he protected them - those people are still thankful - he being the Land Owner and them being the workers, he felt it was his responsibility.


 
Same thing my grands did.........

That was a treble time..........people was eating leaves from the trees but there was non left.......
My grands along with other villagers used to organise langers for the poor people whi were sufering.
Dont tell that it was only pakistanis who helped.......same thing happened in other side too.
My Family provided security to lots people......not just our workers..................


----------



## Rafi

foxbat said:


> When was Islam established 1st??If you know..


 
Do you know where it was established.

---------- Post added at 09:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------




metro said:


> Reverted after being thrashed, looted and raped.


 
You must have been raped, you sure know a lot about it.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> It's only the poor indians that have been thrashed for a thousand years.


 
Haha... the changing stance is hilarious.
What happened to that crying from the rooftops about the ancient Pakistan eh..?

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## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> This is the famous inferiority complex, poor deluded indian's and their rss textbooks.


 
I know you have nothing left after your pathetic delusions are blown away.

You are living a lie.

For a thousand years!


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> The converts are lower than the Dalits in the caste hierarchy, not that I believe in caste.
> 
> You should know this simple fact.
> 
> Again, the converts are lower than dalits.



Again we are not indian - never have, never will be - an indians opinion means less than nothing to me.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> You must have been raped, you sure know a lot about it.


 
We didnt convert. So surely its you who got manhandled.


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> Haha... the changing stance is hilarious.
> What happened to that crying from the rooftops about the ancient Pakistan eh..?


 
Ancient Pakistan - has been separate from the ganges based civilization of india, you are the ones crying not us.


----------



## foxbat

Rafi said:


> Do you know where it was established.
> 
> .



Mate, If I dont know when, I certainly don't know where... Hence the question...


----------



## Abu Zolfiqar

metro said:


> And despite that, poor Sikhs have no right to be the rulers in the land that they ruled once.
> How shameful.
> They cant become PM/President ever , this must be so painful for them.


 
I think what's more ''painful'' than that is this:

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## Bhairava

Rafi said:


> Do you know where it was established.


 
Yes.

The land of your masters ,Arabia, to whom still your country remain beholden to.


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> I know you have nothing left after your pathetic delusions are blown away.
> 
> You are living a lie.
> 
> For a thousand years!


 
We are living the beauty of the great religion.

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## Vinod2070

metro said:


> Haha... the changing stance is hilarious.
> What happened to that crying from the rooftops about the ancient Pakistan eh..?


 
These converts don't even know where they stand. They are mighty confused.

There is nothing one can do about it. It happens with all forced converts.


----------



## foxbat

Rafi said:


> Again we are not indian - never have, *never will be* - .


 
Allah ka Shukr hai...

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## metro

Rafi said:


> Ancient Pakistan - has been separate from the ganges based civilization of india, you are the ones crying not us.


 
And hence its proven that its pakistanis who got thrashed, raped and beaten up by the invaders, and not Indians..

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## Rafi

metro said:


> We didnt convert. So surely its you who got manhandled.


 
You enjoy being manhandled ??


----------



## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> We are living the beauty of the great religion.


 
One (haraam) music competition held by kaffirs, on a youtube video (both being haraam and created by kaffirs) is all you got when you need to justify your forced conversion!


----------



## Rafi

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> I think what's more ''painful'' than that is this:


 
That is horrible - these shameless indians allow the guy's who did it to walk around free. 





This guy is enjoying his golden years after the genocide.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> You enjoy being manhandled ??


 
Im sure you enjoyed being converted after being thrashed..  got no dignity eh..?


----------



## foxbat

metro said:


> And hence its proven that its pakistanis who got thrashed, raped and beaten up by the invaders, and not Indians..


 
Right.. So either Indus Valley civilization was not ancient Pakistan or Pakistanis got thrashed, beaten and raped by invaders all thru the history.. take your pick


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> These converts don't even know where they stand. They are mighty confused.
> 
> There is nothing one can do about it. It happens with all forced converts.


 
Says a poor dalit untouchable, we will liberate you and also provide a sandwich.


----------



## metro

*


Abu Zolfiqar said:



I think what's more ''painful'' than that is this:
























Click to expand...

 
Yes I know whats more painful than that.
It is to be a PM in a country of 1.2 billion.*





*Unfortunately poor sikhs would never get a chance llike this in pakistan.*
How bad...


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> One (haraam) music competition held by kaffirs, on a youtube video (both being haraam and created by kaffirs) is all you got when you need to justify your forced conversion!


 
This music is from our glorious Sufi Saints who converted us to Islam - and also made Pakistan


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> Says a poor dalit untouchable, we will liberate you and also provide a sandwich.


 
Like they did to your forefathers..???


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> Im sure you enjoyed being converted after being thrashed..  got no dignity eh..?


 
Your the one, who enjoys being manhandled 

---------- Post added at 09:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 PM ----------




metro said:


> Like they did to your forefathers..???


 
Maybe your forefathers. Mine were converted with this.


----------



## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> Again we are not indian - never have, never will be - an indians opinion means less than nothing to me.


 
The funny confused convert in "confusion and denial" syndrome.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> This music is from our glorious Sufi Saints who converted us to Islam - and also made Pakistan


 
After beating your people, plundering your societies ... so shameful to worship those invaders who brought so much disgrace to u.

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## Rafi

This guy is walking around free, enjoying his golden years.


----------



## metro

Vinod2070 said:


> The funny confused convert in "confusion and denial" syndrome.


 
I love to see their frustration of not knowing thier roots. This is what they call.... umm.. mixed breed haan..?


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> The funny confused convert in "confusion and denial" syndrome.


 





Listen to the beautiful kalaam of Baba Bulleh Shah you might also get converted.


----------



## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> This music is from our glorious Sufi Saints who converted us to Islam - and also made Pakistan


 
In 2005!

Isn't video and music haraam? Aren't those doing it Mushriks and wajib-ul-qatl?


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> This guy is walking around free, enjoying his golden years.


 
take him to your home...


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> After beating your people, plundering your societies ... so shameful to worship those invaders who brought so much disgrace to u.


 
I can assure you the Sufi never beat anyone, just seduced them with love.


----------



## metro

Time to have dinner now.


----------



## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> Listen to the beautiful kalaam of Baba Bulleh Shah you might also get converted.


 
He would be killed as a wajib-ul-qatl mushrik and munafiq by the Islamist brigade.


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> In 2005!
> 
> Isn't video and music haraam? Aren't those doing it Mushriks and wajib-ul-qatl?


 
Of course not, the Sufi Shrines are alive with the Music 







---------- Post added at 09:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------




metro said:


> Time to have dinner now.


 
Run little indian run, the Pakistanis are coming.

---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------




metro said:


> take him to your home...


 
Keep your criminals, and prosecute them.


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> He would be killed as a wajib-ul-qatl mushrik and munafiq by the Islamist brigade.


 
The takfiri sponsored by india, no the vast majority of Pakistanis are Barelvi and Shia and love the Sufi's.

---------- Post added at 09:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 PM ----------




Rafi said:


> I can assure you the Sufi never beat anyone, just seduced them with love.


 
This is the universal truth.


----------



## justanobserver

Wasn't that Qadri guy a 'peaceful' Barelvi ?


----------



## Rafi

justanobserver said:


> Wasn't that Qadri guy a 'peaceful' Barelvi ?


 
Wasn't Godse a indian patriot ?????

http://hinduexistence.wordpress.com/2011/01/23/godse-and-dara-two-patriotic-sons-of-mother-india/


----------



## Rafi

Listen to the Kalaam of Baba Bulleh Shah and it might also open your heart to Islam.


----------



## justanobserver

Well Godse wasn't showered with petals (like 'Ghazi' Mumtaz Qadri) 

Also this is what the majority of the Shia, Sufi, Barelvi peaceful Pakistanis think


----------



## Bhairava

Rafi said:


> Wasn't Godse a indian patriot ?????
> 
> Godse and Dara, two patriotic sons of Mother India. One tried to resist Muslim appeasement, other tried to desist Christian conversion. « Struggle for Hindu Existence



Though he is not garlanded by the same lawyers who are supposed to prosecute him nor he is given the 'honorary' title of Gazzi 



Rafi said:


> This guy is walking around free, enjoying his golden years.


 
First give justice to this poor lady and then yap.






Or prosecute the butchers of Bengalis in East Pakistan.

Seriously a Pakistani speaking about Human Rights and Genocide. Thats Damn rich !

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## foxbat

Rafi said:


> Listen to the beautiful kalaam of Baba Bulleh Shah you might also get converted.


 
Dude.. I like Elvis too.. Wont make me convert to Christianity.. LOL


----------



## Rafi

justanobserver said:


> Well Godse wasn't showered with petals (like 'Ghazi' Mumtaz Qadri)
> 
> Also this is what the majority of the Shia, Sufi, Barelvi peaceful Pakistanis think


 
Yeah, many indians on ths website, called him a patriot - take it up with them.


----------



## Bhairava

foxbat said:


> Dude.. I like Elvis too.. Wont make me convert to Christianity.. LOL


 
Ignore that stupid video - that is the gazillionth time he has posted that.

Whatever that implies is known only to the mighty lord.


----------



## Rafi

foxbat said:


> Dude.. I like Elvis too.. Wont make me convert to Christianity.. LOL


 
Elvis did not sing Sufiana Kalaam, and millions of people listened to this poetry and converted.

---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 PM ----------




Gounder said:


> Ignore that stupid video - that is the gazillionth time he has posted that.
> 
> Whatever that implies is known only to the mighty lord.


 





Got a new vid, with Baba Bulleh Shah's poetry - just as inspirational.


----------



## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> Listen to the Kalaam of Baba Bulleh Shah and it might also open your heart to Islam.


 
We have the example of you Pakistanis and your words and deeds to know what a convert is like.

You can guess what example of Islam you converts convey.


----------



## Rafi

More Sufi Music that converted millions.


----------



## Vinod2070

This music is not converting millions today!

When there is no sword preceding it.


----------



## Bhairava

Rafi said:


> Got a new vid, with Baba Bulleh Shah's poetry - just as inspirational.


 
More inspirational is this ;






*Youtube mode off*


----------



## foxbat

Rafi said:


> Listen to the Kalaam of Baba Bulleh Shah and it might also open your heart to Islam.


 
Was the music used as a face saver for those who converted fearing opression from the conquering warlords of Afghanistan and Arabia?


----------



## Bhairava

foxbat said:


> Was the music used as a face saver for those who converted fearing opression from the conquering warlords of Afghanistan and Arabia?


 
That video is used as a face saver right here ...right now..

Imagine Sufis with a IPad and this video converting these people those days


----------



## PlanetWarrior

As a Hindu I have the utmost regards for our Sikh brothers and sisters. They are a leading force in India and are the reason why India is militarily and politically proud. In fact , if I ever had to convert it would definately be into another Dharmic religion which includes our Sikh brotherhood religion. My view is the view of the majority Hindu. Hence I pity those who believe that Hindus and Sikhs are at loggerheads. On the issue of Khalistan, it is just a pipedream for Pakistanis who wish to repay India for Bangladesh. The Sikhs I associate with in India see themselves as anything else but an Indian and to suggest to them otherwise would be tantamount to telling an Englishman in London that he isn't part of Britain.

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## twoplustwoisfour

Is this stupid thread _still_ going on??


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> This music is not converting millions today!
> 
> When there is no sword preceding it.


 
It is you just don't know it.

---------- Post added at 10:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 PM ----------




Gounder said:


> More inspirational is this ;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Youtube mode off*


 
Much more, it converted hundreds of millions to Islam.

---------- Post added at 10:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 PM ----------




foxbat said:


> Was the music used as a face saver for those who converted fearing opression from the conquering warlords of Afghanistan and Arabia?


 
No it was the beautiful words of Baba Bulleh Shah and others.

---------- Post added at 10:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 PM ----------




Gounder said:


> That video is used as a face saver right here ...right now..
> 
> Imagine Sufis with a IPad and this video converting these people those days


 
Many people are still being converted to this day.


----------



## Kavin

tallboy123 said:


> *Only Hinduism,Sikhism,Buddhism,Jainism are the religions of India..... that's it*
> *others are just converts*


 











People's President


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> Run little indian run, the Pakistanis are coming.



What for..??
To surrender.??

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## Bhairava

Rafi said:


> Much more, it converted hundreds of millions to Islam.



Yes, It even converted the Klingons to Islam. 



PlanetWarrior said:


> As a Hindu I have the utmost regards for our Sikh brothers and sisters. They are a leading force in India and are the reason why India is militarily and politically proud. In fact , if I ever had to convert it would definately be into another Dharmic religion which includes our Sikh brotherhood religion. My view is the view of the majority Hindu. Hence I pity those who believe that Hindus and Sikhs are at loggerheads. On the issue of Khalistan, it is just a pipedream for Pakistanis who wish to repay India for Bangladesh. The Sikhs I associate with in India see themselves as anything else but an Indian and to suggest to them otherwise would be tantamount to telling an Englishman in London that he isn't part of Britain.


 
Let the bois have their daily kicks.  Dont be a wetblanket.


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> What for..??
> To surrender.??


 
Yes  lol like you've been doing for a thousand years.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> Yes  lol like you've been doing for a thousand years.


 
You mean the ancient pakistanis..?? and the '71...???


----------



## Rafi

Gounder said:


> Yes, It even converted the Klingons to Islam


 
You will be assimilated, resistance is futile. 

---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 PM ----------




metro said:


> You mean the ancient pakistanis..?? and the '71...???


 
Speak English - so we can understand what you are referring to.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> You will be assimilated, resistance is futile.


 
Like what they did to you..???

But they would fail once again, like they failed then. 

---------- Post added at 10:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 PM ----------




Rafi said:


> Speak English - so we can understand what you are referring to.


 
Ask Raymond Davis, he might tell you its meaning.

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## Rafi

metro said:


> Like what they did to you..???
> 
> But they would fail once again, like they failed then.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 10:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Ask Raymond Davis, he might tell you its meaning.


 
And you ask Ghauri or better still Mahmud.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> And you ask Ghauri or better still Mahmud.


 
Who thrashed, plundered and literally raped entire ancient Pakistan ..??


----------



## Rafi

More Sufi Kalaam that converted millions to Islam


----------



## metro

*Oh resorting to youtube videos now...
This is getting funnier and funnier...*


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> Who thrashed, plundered and literally raped entire ancient Pakistan ..??


 
Not ancient Pakistan - ancient poor starving india, and a sandwich on it's way to you, my hungry friend.

---------- Post added at 10:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------




metro said:


> *Oh resorting to youtube videos now...
> This is getting funnier and funnier...*


 
Why can't you take it, my little indian friend

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## metro

Rafi said:


> Not ancient Pakistan - ancient poor starving india, and a sandwich on it's way to you, my hungry friend.


 
That means there was no ancient Pakistan.. Hence IVC belongs to India and Indians...

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## Rafi

More and more inspirational music, that inspired people to Islam.


----------



## foxbat

Rafi said:


> More Sufi Kalaam that converted millions to Islam


 
So basically none of Pakistanis are original Islamic people. ?? All of them were of other religion who due to fear of oppression quit their original beliefs and converted to Islam. Or are there any sections of society in Pakistan that are descendants of original invaders from Afghanistan/Arabia


----------



## metro

*Singh Is King...... *


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> That means there was no ancient Pakistan.. Hence IVC belongs to India and Indians...


 
Ancient Pakistan had nothing to do with poor dirty india, it belongs to us, your ganges civilization must have something to be proud of. The IVC is our virsa.

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## metro

Rafi said:


> Ancient Pakistan had nothing to do with poor dirty india, it belongs to us, your ganges civilization must have something to be proud of. The IVC is our virsa.


 That means you accpet you were thrashed and humiliated by ghaznis and qasims...??


----------



## foxbat

Rafi said:


> Ancient Pakistan had nothing to do with poor dirty india, it belongs to us, your ganges civilization must have something to be proud of. The IVC is our virsa.


So it was your Virsa that was pludered, conquered , raped and converted by the invaders from Afghanistan and Arabia then?


----------



## Rafi

foxbat said:


> So basically none of Pakistanis are original Islamic people. ?? All of them were of other religion who due to fear of oppression quit their original beliefs and converted to Islam. Or are there any sections of society in Pakistan that are descendants of original invaders from Afghanistan/Arabia


 
There are people who are descended from the immigrants, such as Arab's and Turk's, Persians etc. And non of the people were forcibly converted, they were all inspired by the Sufi.

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## metro

Rafi said:


> There are people who are descended from the immigrants, such as Arab's and Turk's, Persians etc. And non of the people were forcibly converted, they were all inspired by the Sufi.


 
They were only looted, mutilated, plundered, killed and raped, but they were not forced...

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## Bhairava

Rafi said:


> You will be assimilated, resistance is futile.


 
We are not ancient Pakistanis for that 

We gave resistance - our resistance was in our faith - we did not give it up even at the cost of our lives unlike some weaklings.

Thats , my little boy is true bravery - not converting at first onset of hostility and becoming merceneries/slaves for the invading masters -something you never know.

Here we are - with our own indigenous culture we followed for millenia. Look where you are - following the master's (Arabs) foreign culture with a terrible identity crisis. Pity you.


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> That means you accpet you were thrashed and humiliated by ghaznis and qasims...??


 
No we were converted by the Sufi.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> No we were converted by the Sufi.


Only after being humiliated and thrashed.


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> They were only looted, mutilated, plundered, killed and raped, but they were not forced...


 
My friend who admitted he is partial to being manhandled.  No we were peaceably converted by the great Sufi Saints.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

> Not ancient Pakistan - ancient poor starving india, and a sandwich on it's way to you, my hungry friend.



Ha, ancient India was poor and starving? And the invaders magically jumped over modern Pakistan into modern India? Lmao?




> My friend who admitted he is partial to being manhandled. No we were peaceably converted by the great Sufi Saints.



Live in your dreams, most of your nation isnt Sufi, but Sunni like most of the invaders that came into the land.


----------



## Rafi

Gounder said:


> We are not ancient Pakistanis for that
> 
> We gave resistance - our resistance was in our faith - we did not give it up even at the cost of our lives unlike some weaklings.
> 
> Thats my little boy is true bravery - not converting at first onset of hostility and becoming merceneries/slaves for the invading masters.


 
We accepted the beautiful faith, and came into the light - from the dark - praise the Lord millions of times that I was born a Pakistani, and not a little indian.

---------- Post added at 10:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 PM ----------




Liquid said:


> Ha, ancient India was poor and starving? And the invaders magically jumped over modern Pakistan into modern India? Lmao?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live in your dreams, most of your nation isnt Sufi, but Sunni like most of the invaders that came into the land.


 
Majority of Pakistanis are Barelvi- which are Sufi Muslims - google it son.


----------



## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> Much more, it converted hundreds of millions to Islam.


 
So now all you have is posting kaffir created youtube haraam videos. 

Either the sufis were ignorant mushriks or they fooled you.


----------



## foxbat

Rafi said:


> There are people who are descended from the immigrants, such as Arab's and Turk's, Persians etc. And non of the people were forcibly converted, they were all inspired by the Sufi.


 
So are the original descendants treated any different from the ones that are descendants of the people who originally belonged to different religions.. I mean the ones converted to Islam. Just like Mohajirs are treated differently from the people originally living in parts of India that became Pakistan in 1947


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> My friend who admitted he is partial to being manhandled.  No we were peaceably converted by the great Sufi Saints.


 
Yeah.. Saints like Qasims, Ghaznis etc... who did nothing but destroyed your religious places, killed your forefathers, plundered into your societies and converted you people.
saints indeed.


----------



## Rafi

Even these American's are inspired by this Music, no wonder millions of people converted to Islam.


----------



## Vinod2070

metro said:


> What for..??
> To surrender.??


 
Last time those 93000 made that Delhi Meerut road (poor quality and workmanship I must say).

This time we have the Golden quadrilateral for the much bigger number. We even have Chinese contractors working in some sections.

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## metro

Rafi said:


> We accepted the beautiful faith, and came into the light - from the dark - praise the Lord millions of times that I was born a Pakistani, and not a little indian.


 You came into light after being thrashed and humiliated.


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> So now all you have is posting kaffir created youtube haraam videos.
> 
> Either the sufis were ignorant mushriks or they fooled you.


 
*Majority of Pakistanis are Barelvi- which are Sufi Muslims - google it son.*

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## Water Car Engineer

> Majority of Pakistanis are Barelvi- which are Sufi Muslims - google it son.



Barelvi is sufi? Oh really? How about you google it..


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> Yeah.. Saints like Qasims, Ghaznis etc... who did nothing but destroyed your religious places, killed your forefathers, plundered into your societies and converted you people.
> saints indeed.


 
Your religious places, not mine - we are glad they bought the light of Islam, into this dark place -


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> *Majority of Pakistanis are Barelvi- which are Sufi Muslims - google it son.*


 
Talk about ureself. are u barelvi...??


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Gounder said:


> *Thats , my little boy is true bravery* - not converting at first onset of hostility and becoming merceneries/slaves for the invading masters -something you never know.


 
Stop trolling.

Also, boasting that you have "true bravery" is laughable.

Who is going to take a person seriously, when they declare that they themselves have "true bravery"?

Self-congratulatory nonsense.

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## metro

Rafi said:


> Your religious places, not mine - we are glad they bought the light of Islam, into this dark place -


 
Forefathers were yours, not mine.


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> Last time those 93000 made that Delhi Meerut road (poor quality and workmanship I must say).
> 
> This time we have the Golden quadrilateral for the much bigger number. We even have Chinese contractors working in some sections.


 
Don't forget the thousand years of subjugation.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> Don't forget the thousand years of subjugation.


 
And the forced conversions...


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Rafi said:


> Don't forget the thousand years of subjugation.


 
Tell your ancestors that...

BTW I am from Kerala, we didnt get ruled by foreigners like you until the British.


----------



## Rafi

Liquid said:


> Ha, ancient India was poor and starving? And the invaders magically jumped over modern Pakistan into modern India? Lmao?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live in your dreams, most of your nation isnt Sufi, but Sunni like most of the invaders that came into the land.


 
*Barelvi (Hindi: &#2348;&#2352;&#2375;&#2354;&#2357;&#2368;, Urdu: &#1576;&#1585;&#1740;&#1604;&#1608;&#1740;, /b&#601;re&#720;lvi&#720;/) is a movement of Sunni Islam originating in South Asia. The Barelvi movement was started in 1880 to defend contemporary traditionalist Islamic beliefs and practices from the criticisms of reformist movements like the Ahl al-&#7717;ad&#299;th (people of hadith).[1] This included a defence of many traditional practices and rites associated with popular Sufism.[2] The movement in British India was shaped by the writings of Ahmed Raza Khan Barelvi.

Similarly, the conservative think tank The Heritage Foundation gives such estimates for the vast majority of Sunni Muslims in Pakistan.[2]*


----------



## Vinod2070

This is a good one by Nusrat. He is one who didn't forget his roots.

See, talking of Radha, Shyam. Beautiful song.

Sufism was inspired by Hinduism, not from that pathetic desert or those herders and nomads.

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## metro

Rafi said:


> *Barelvi (Hindi: &#2348;&#2352;&#2375;&#2354;&#2357;&#2368;, Urdu: &#1576;&#1585;&#1740;&#1604;&#1608;&#1740;, /b&#601;re&#720;lvi&#720;/) is a movement of Sunni Islam originating in South Asia. The Barelvi movement was started in 1880 to defend contemporary traditionalist Islamic beliefs and practices from the criticisms of reformist movements like the Ahl al-&#7717;ad&#299;th (people of hadith).[1] This included a defence of many traditional practices and rites associated with popular Sufism.[2] The movement in British India was shaped by the writings of Ahmed Raza Khan Barelvi.
> 
> Similarly, the conservative think tank The Heritage Foundation gives such estimates for the vast majority of Sunni Muslims in Pakistan.[2]*


 
*Are u barelvi...??*


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> Forefathers were yours, not mine.


 
Thank God they were.


----------



## foxbat

Rafi said:


> We accepted the beautiful faith, and came into the light - from the dark - praise the Lord millions of times that I was born a Pakistani, and not a little indian.
> 
> 
> .




Considerable controversy exists both in scholarly and public opinion about the conversions to Islam typically represented by the following schools of thought:[2]

That the bulk of Muslims are descendants of migrants from the Iranian plateau or Arabs.[3]

That Muslims sought conversion through jihad or political violence[2]

A related view is that conversions occurred for non-religious reasons of pragmatism and patronage such as social mobility among the Muslim ruling elite or for relief from taxes[2][3]

Conversion was a result of the actions of Sufi saints and involved a genuine change of heart[2]

Conversion came from Buddhists and the en masse *conversions of lower castes for social liberation and as a rejection of oppressive existent Hindu caste structures.[3]*

Was a combination, initially made under duress followed by a genuine change of heart[2]

As a socio-cultural process of diffusion and integration over an extended period of time into the sphere of the dominant Muslim civilization and global polity at large.[3]

Embedded within this lies the concept of Islam as a foreign imposition and Hinduism being a natural condition of the natives who resisted, resulting the failure of the project to Islamicize the Indian subcontinent and is highly embroiled with the politics of the partition and communalism in India.[2]
An estimate of the number of people killed, based on the Muslim chronicles and demographic calculations, was done by K.S. Lal in his book Growth of Muslim Population in Medieval India, who claimed that between 1000 CE and 1500 CE, the population of Hindus decreased by 80 million. His work has come under criticism by historians such as Simon Digby (School of Oriental and African Studies) and Irfan Habib for its agenda and lack of accurate data in pre-census times. Lal has responded to these criticisms in later works. Historians such as Will Durant contend that Islam spread through violence.[4][5] Sir Jadunath Sarkar contends that that several Muslim invaders were waging a systematic jihad against Hindus in India to the effect that "Every device short of massacre in cold blood was resorted to in order to convert heathen subjects."[6] In particular the records kept by al-Utbi, Mahmud al-Ghazni's secretary, in the Tarikh-i-Yamini document several episodes of bloody military campaigns.[citation needed] *Hindus who converted to Islam however were not completely immune to persecution due to the Caste system among South Asian Muslims in India established by Ziauddin al-Barani in the Fatawa-i Jahandari.[7], where they were regarded as an "Ajlaf" caste and subjected to discrimination by the "Ashraf" castes[8]*


----------



## Water Car Engineer

> Barelvi is a movement of Sunni Islam originating in the Indian subcontinent. The Barelvi movement was started in 1880 to defend contemporary traditionalist Islamic beliefs and practices from the criticisms of reformist movements like the Ahl al-&#7717;ad&#299;th (people of hadith). This included a defence of many traditional practices and rites associated with popular Sufism. The movement in British India was shaped by the writings of Ahmed Raza Khan Barelvi (1856&#8211;1921).
> 
> Similarly, the conservative think tank The Heritage Foundation gives such estimates for the vast majority of Sunni Muslims in Pakistan.[/B]



And it was started 1880, long after the invaders came into the land. So what are you talking about? And it said it was a movement of Sunni Islam..

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## metro

Rafi said:


> Thank God they were.


 Thanking god that your elders your humiliated and thrashed..?? 
Ure one true man.


----------



## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> Don't forget the thousand years of subjugation.


 
The subjugated ones were converted. 

They are now posting kaffir mushrik videos to prove it was not forced..


----------



## Bhairava

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Stop trolling.
> 
> Also, boasting that you have "true bravery" is laughable.
> 
> Who is going to take a person seriously, when they declare that they themselves have "true bravery"?
> 
> Self-congratulatory nonsense.


 
Friend I have nothing against you and unfortunately like I know little Chinese history I presume you know little ancient Indian history. So please refrain from making comments without understanding the context or to which is addressed.

Thanks.


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> This is a good one by Nusrat. He is one who didn't forget his roots.
> 
> See, talking of Radha, Shyam. Beautiful song.
> 
> Sufism was inspired by Hinduism, not from that pathetic desert or those herders and nomads.


 
Sufism spread from other places.

*Bulleh Shah is believed to have been born in 1680, in the small village of Uch, Bahawalpur, Punjab, in present day Pakistan.[2] His father, Shah Muhammad Darwaish, was a teacher and preacher in a village mosque. Little is known about Bulleh Shah's ancestry except that some of his forebears were migrants from Uzbekistan[3] and that his family claimed direct descent from the prophet Muhammad*

*Abul Hassan Ali Ibn Usman al-Jullabi al-Hajvery al-Ghaznawi (&#1575;&#1576;&#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1581;&#1587;&#1606; &#1593;&#1604;&#1740; &#1576;&#1606; &#1593;&#1579;&#1605;&#1575;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1580;&#1604;&#1575;&#1576;&#1740; &#1575;&#1604;&#1607;&#1580;&#1608;&#1740;&#1585;&#1740; &#1575;&#1604;&#1594;&#1586;&#1606;&#1608;&#1740 or Abul Hassan Ali Hajvery (sometimes spelled Hujwiri, Hajweri, Hajveri), also known as Daata Ganj Bakhsh (Persian/Punjabi: (&#1583;&#1575;&#1578;&#1575; &#1711;&#1606;&#1580; &#1576;&#1582;&#1588 (which means the master who bestows treasures) or Daata Sahib (Persian/Urdu: (&#1583;&#1575;&#1578;&#1575; &#1589;&#1575;&#1581;&#1576, was a Persian Sufi and scholar during the 11th century. He significantly contributed to the spreading of Islam in South Asia.[1*

*He was born around 990 CE near Ghazni, Afghanistan during the Ghaznavid Empire and died in Lahore (in present day Punjab, Pakistan) in 1077 CE. His most famous work is Kashf Al Mahjub ("Unveiling the Veiled") (&#1705;&#1588;&#1601;&#1615; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1581;&#1580;&#1608;&#1576, written in the Persian language. The work, which is one of the earliest and most respected treatises of Sufism, debates Sufi doctrines of the past.
Ali Hajvery is also famous for his mausoleum in Lahore, which is surrounded by a large marble courtyard, a mosque and other buildings. It is the most frequented of all the shrines in that city, and one of the most famous in Pakistan and nearby countries. His name is a household word, and his mausoleum the object of pilgrimage from distant places.[2]*


----------



## metro

Vinod2070 said:


> The subjugated ones were converted.
> 
> They are now posting kaffir mushrik videos to prove it was not forced..


 Haha... im feeling pity on him now. Lets leave this thread now. 
He got nothing left tos ay now. Let him post youtube videos to lift his hurt ego.


----------



## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> *Majority of Pakistanis are Barelvi- which are Sufi Muslims - google it son.*


 
This Barelvi thingy is very new, late 1800s.

They are called Mushriks and wajib-ul-qatl by all your Islamic channels and other Islamists.


----------



## Rafi

Liquid said:


> And it was started 1880, long after the invaders came into the land. So what are you talking about? AQnd it said it was a movement of Sunni Islam..


 
It was movement that wanted to protect our Sufi beliefs from the takfiri - of Osama's lot.

---------- Post added at 10:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ----------




metro said:


> Haha... im feeling pity on him now. Lets leave this thread now.
> He got nothing left tos ay now. Let him post youtube videos to lift his hurt ego.


 
Run little indian run.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> It was movement that wanted to protect our Sufi beliefs from the takfiri - of Osama's lot.


 
Why dont you tell us which sect you belong to...??
Are u ashamed of that..?


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> This Barelvi thingy is very new, late 1800s.
> 
> They are called Mushriks and wajib-ul-qatl by all your Islamic channels and other Islamists.


 
The vast majority of Pakistanis are Barelvi and Shia - and love the Sufi's.

---------- Post added at 10:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 PM ----------




metro said:


> Why dont you tell us which sect you belong to...??
> Are u ashamed of that..?


 
I am a Pakistani Shia, and proud of it, little indian.


----------



## Bhairava

Rafi said:


> We accepted the beautiful faith, and came into the light - from the dark - praise the Lord millions of times that I was born a Pakistani, and not a little indian.


 
The beautiful faith (only you call it so) was forced upon you weakling whose forefathers were either afraid of the first sight of Arabs or turned mercenaries for a few gold pieces.

The faith you are following is the very thing that should remind you that you are just following the ways of your oppressors,conquerors,Masters.

Little wonder that neither the Arabs nor the Persians treat you as their equals and rather look upon you mongrels as slaves. Little wonder.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> Run little indian run.


 So your loving being manhandled here..?? 
ok your wish.


----------



## Vinod2070

Let me show an example of "peaceful conversion" by Islamists, typical of the early Islam.

*



When a Muslim army invaded a town, they would not allow anyone to convert to Islam for three days. During these three days they could kill as many men as they liked, pillage their properties, then rape and enslave their women and children. Only after a town had been decimated and all the young women and children that could be sold as slaves were captured would the brutal campaign of Islamization, with its brutal mandate that all must convert or die, began. However the Jews and the Christians were given protection to live provided they pay a penalty tax called Jizyah and enter into dhimmitude. Dhimmi means protected. But the dhimmis had to pay a hefty jizyah for their protection. This Jizyah was the source of livelihood of the Muslims who through it were able to live like parasites off the labor of the dhimmis. The following Hadith, reported by Bukhari, records the source for this practice based on the admonitions of Muhammad toward the dhimmi:

Narrated Juwairiya bin Qudama At-Tamimi:
We said to 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, oh Chief of the believers! Advise us." He said, "I advise you to fulfill Allah's Convention (made with the Dhimmis) as it is the convention of your Prophet and the source of the livelihood of your dependents (i.e. the taxes from the Dhimmis.) " Volume 4, Book 53, Number 388:

Click to expand...

*


----------



## Kavin

Rafi said:


> Ancient Pakistan had nothing to do with poor dirty india, it belongs to us, your ganges civilization must have something to be proud of. *The IVC is our virsa*.



Where people read Quraan and prayed 5 times a day. Always saying InshaAllah. 


> The IVC has been tentatively identified with the toponym Meluhha known from Sumerian records. It has been compared in particular with the civilizations of Elam (also in the context of the Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis) and with Minoan Crete (because of isolated cultural parallels such as the ubiquitous goddess worship and depictions of bull-leaping).[65] The mature (Harappan) phase of the IVC is contemporary to the Early to Middle Bronze Age in the Ancient Near East, in particular the Old Elamite period, Early Dynastic to Ur III Mesopotamia, Prepalatial Minoan Crete and Old Kingdom to First Intermediate Period Egypt.


----------



## Rafi

Gounder said:


> The beautiful faith (only you call it so) was forced upon you weakling whose forefathers were either afraid of the first sight of Arabs or turned mercenaries for a few gold pieces.
> 
> The faith you are following is the very thing that should remind you that you are just following the ways of your oppressors,conquerors,Masters.
> 
> Little wonder that neither the Arabs nor the Persians treat you as their equals and rather look upon you mongrels as slaves. Little wonder.


 
Another indian with an inferiority complex, poor little hungry indians.

---------- Post added at 10:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:48 PM ----------




metro said:


> So your loving being manhandled here..??
> ok your wish.


 
your the expert in being manhandled.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> your the expert in being manhandled.


 
We werent converted. You did. so your the expert.


----------



## Rafi

Kavin said:


> Where people read Qur&#8217;aan and prayed 5 times a day. Always saying InshaAllah.


 
We are the inheritors and descendants of this mighty civilization - not poor hungry indians.


----------



## alphamale

Rafi said:


> Even these American's are inspired by this Music, no wonder millions of people converted to Islam.


 
what kind of logic is that??????? i am very much attracted toward Sufism, i always feel good from inside when i listen to sufi songs but never ever not even once the thought of converting to islam crossed my mind.


----------



## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> The vast majority of Pakistanis are Barelvi and Shia - and love the Sufi's.


 
Shia are only 15% in Pakistan.

Your little taqiyya fails.

Again.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

^^^ Rafi buddy, don't get yourself banned by replying to people like Gounder.

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## Rafi

metro said:


> We werent converted. You did. so your the expert.


 
But you speak from personal experience


----------



## Water Car Engineer

You just said Sufis converted most of the people in Pakistan, and you gave out this Barelvi movement. Makes no damn sense, when this movement was started in 1880s in INDIA. Not 1000 years ago when SUNNI Muslims invaded North western India. Barelvi was a Sunni Muslim movement also. And most of Pakistan are not even Sufis.

The people in the Indian subcontinent that got the worst of the slaughtering was Northwest and Northern India..


----------



## Rafi

alphamale said:


> what kind of logic is that??????? i am very much attracted toward Sufism, i always feel good from inside when i listen to sufi songs but never ever not even once the thought of converting to islam crossed my mind.


 
Millions are though.


----------



## Bhairava

Considering the hubris on display by these converts, I think Hulagu and Genghis did a wonderful job out there in the Middle East.



Rafi said:


> Another indian with an inferiority complex, poor little hungry indians.


 
Poor little dentity-crisis ridden converts.


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> Shia are only 15% in Pakistan.
> 
> Your little taqiyya fails.
> 
> Again.


 
So - we are part of the fabric of that great country.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> But you speak from personal experience


 
Abe kitni beijjati karvaega apni. Sharam nahi aa rahi kya terko..???


----------



## Rafi

Chinese-Dragon said:


> ^^^ Rafi buddy, don't get yourself banned by replying to people like Gounder.


 
Thank you Bro - will try not to get banned.

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## alphamale

Rafi said:


> Millions are though.


 
millions are though what????????????? short of words now.


----------



## Rafi

Liquid said:


> You just said Sufis converted most of the people in Pakistan, and you gave out this Barelvi movement. Makes no damn sense, when this movement was started in 1880s in INDIA. Not 1000 years ago when SUNNI Muslims invaded North western India. Barelvi was a Sunni Muslim movement also. And most of Pakistan are not even Sufis.
> 
> The people in the Indian subcontinent that got the worst of the slaughtering was Northwest and Northern India..


 
I am a Pakistani and can tell you that the majority of Pakistani Muslims are followers of the Sufi - the mystical part of Islam.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> I am a Pakistani and can tell you that the majority of Pakistani Muslims are followers of the Sufi - the mystical part of Islam.


 
What about you...??


----------



## Rafi

alphamale said:


> millions are though what????????????? short of words now.


 
Plenty of words for you - millions of people converted to Islam listening to the beautiful words of Islam.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> Plenty of words for you - millions of people converted to Islam listening to the beautiful words of Islam.


 
Which sect are you from ?


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Rafi said:


> I am a Pakistani and can tell you that the majority of Pakistani Muslims are followers of the Sufi - the mystical part of Islam.


 
You are just confused.


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> What about you...??


 
The Sufi that converted my Jatt clan to Islam - is still venerated - and respected. And I am a firm believer in the Sufi way of life, which is the mystical element in the great religion of Islam.

---------- Post added at 10:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 PM ----------




metro said:


> Which sect are you from ?


 
Shia Muslim

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## metro

Rafi said:


> The Sufi that converted my Jatt clan to Islam - is still venerated - and respected. And I am a firm believer in the Sufi way of life, which is the mystical element in the great religion of Islam.


 
Aah.. you might be inspired by mickey mouse too.. thats not my question. My question is which sect you belong to ?


----------



## Bhairava

Rafi said:


> Plenty of words for you - millions of people converted to Islam listening to the beautiful words of Islam.


 

And more than that from the swords of the invading hordes of Arabs and Turks who just toyed with the area that is now Pakistan 

This is what Huan Tsang said about the people of North West of India on his trvels.
_
"The people are accustomed to a life of ease and prosperity and they like to sing. However, they are weak-minded and cowardly, and they are given to deceit and treachery. In their relations with each other there is much trickery and little courtesy. These people are small in size and unpredictable in their movements." _


----------



## Kavin

Rafi said:


> We are the inheritors and descendants of this mighty civilization - not poor hungry indians.


 
The poor hungry INDIANs jumped from a UFO 1000 years back just to surrender the mighty plunders, killers and rapers of your forefathers.


----------



## Rafi

Liquid said:


> You are just confused.


 
You are confused, the second largest population of Shia after Iran reside in Pakistan.

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## metro

Rafi said:


> Shia Muslim


 That means you were forced and converted...


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> Aah.. you might be inspired by mickey mouse too.. thats not my question. My question is which sect you belong to ?


 
I am a proud Pakistani Shia Punjabi Jatt. 

---------- Post added at 10:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 PM ----------




Gounder said:


> ^ And more than that from the swords of the invading hordes of Arabs and Turks who jusy toyed with the area that is now Pakistan


 
They toyed with poor indians.

---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 PM ----------




Kavin said:


> The poor hungry INDIANs jumped from a UFO 1000 years back just to surrender the mighty plunders, killers and rapers of your forefathers.


 
They raped your forefathers not mine.

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## metro

Rafi said:


> I am a proud Pakistani Shia Punjabi Jatt.


 Who was converted brutally...


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> That means you were forced and converted...


 
No = as I have been explaining we were converted by the Sufi


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Rafi said:


> You are confused, the second largest population of Shia after Iran reside in Pakistan.


 
You were talking about Sufi Islam. You are confused!


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> They raped your forefathers not mine.


 
But its you who got converted, not we..


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> Who was converted brutally...


 
No my people are proud Jatt warriors we can never be forcibly converted by anyone.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> No = as I have been explaining we were converted by the Sufi


 
Sufis like ghaznis and qasims... 

---------- Post added at 11:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 PM ----------




Rafi said:


> No my people are proud Jatt warriors we can never be forcibly converted by anyone.


 
Who cowardly converted...


----------



## Rafi

Liquid said:


> You were talking about Sufi Islam. You are confused!


 
No, my child it is you who are confused, you can be a Sunni or Shia and still follow Sufism.


----------



## alphamale

Rafi said:


> Plenty of words for you - millions of people converted to Islam listening to the beautiful words of Islam.


 
bro even though u believe that but it is not entirely true, if we go by ur logic then if tomorrow a new religion comes up with more beautiful words & songs then what u think whole world will start converting to that religion only bcoz it has more beautiful words & songs???????????


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> Sufis like ghaznis and qasims...
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Who cowardly converted...


 
No the cowards are a preserve of your kind.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Rafi said:


> No my people are proud Jatt warriors we can never be forcibly converted by anyone.


 
Lmao, omg.... 

Internet warrior. Tell your ancestors that.


----------



## Bhairava

Rafi said:


> They toyed with poor indians.


 
Actually they were Ancient Pakistanis - moral weaklings who could not stand up to their faith and decided to adopt the ways of their oppressors for the threat of life.

It is better to live 1 day like a Lion without giving up on your ideals and getting killed than living 100 yeas as a jackal or like a chameleon. 



Rafi said:


> No = as I have been explaining we were converted by the Sufi


 
...Who came escorted by the swords of the invaders. Who knows probably even they were afraid of their life from the invaders.


----------



## Rafi

alphamale said:


> bro even though u believe that but it is not entirely true, if we go by ur logic then if tomorrow a new religion comes up with more beautiful words & songs then what u think whole world will start converting to that religion only bcoz it has more beautiful words & songs???????????


 
No my friend, because this is the final message, of the Almighty to man kind.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> No the cowards are a preserve of your kind.


 
But we didnt convert. We chose to fight rather than converting cowardly...


----------



## Rafi

Liquid said:


> Lmao, omg....
> 
> Internet warrior. Tell your ancestors that.


 
My ancestors are mine, and nothing to do with india.


----------



## desioptimist

Everyday some different topic but same thread. Today it is sufi islam.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> My ancestors are mine, and nothing to do with india.


 
Finally you come back to ure senses, after so much thrashing.


----------



## Vinod2070

Islam in its originality has no mysticism. It is a religion of certitudes.

The mysticism is a concept foreign to Islam, an add on, a bidat.

There are many Islamists looking to qatl such "munafiqs" and get their hands on the promised 72.


----------



## Rafi

Gounder said:


> Actually they were Ancient Pakistanis - moral weaklings who could not stand up to their faith and decided to adopt the ways of their oppressors for the threat of life.
> 
> It is better to live 1 day like a Lion without giving up on your ideals and getting killed than living 100 yeas as a jackal or like a chameleon.


 
The jackals are dalits like you, abused for a thousand years.


----------



## metro

desioptimist said:


> Everyday some different topic but same thread. Today it is sufi islam.


 
And one different troll everyday.


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> Finally you come back to ure senses, after so much thrashing.


 
Thrashing ? from a little indian like you, more inferiority complex.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Rafi said:


> My ancestors are mine, and nothing to do with india.


 
Ha, at least India mostly didn't convert like your side, Persia, Large parts of Africa, central Asia, etc, etc, etc, etc when the Islamic horde invaded.

And the little Indian thing? Lmao, Pakistanis are somehow super tall, NO.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> They jackals are dalits like you, abused for a thousand years.


 
And still we fought bravely and not converted cowardly.


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> Islam in its originality has no mysticism. It is a religion of certitudes.
> 
> The mysticism is a concept foreign to Islam, an add on, a bidat.
> 
> There are many Islamists looking to qatl such "munafiqs" and get their hands on the promised 72.


 
No my child, the mystical element of Islam was their from the start - and is present in every corner of the Islamic world.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> Thrashing ? from a little indian like you, more inferiority complex.


 
Yeah.. after experiencing thrashings of qasims and ghaznis, obviously my thrashing would look too small.

---------- Post added at 11:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 PM ----------




Rafi said:


> No my child, the mystical element of Islam was their from the start - and is present in every corner of the Islamic world.


 
Even in FATA...


----------



## Rafi

Liquid said:


> Ha, at least India mostly didn't convert like your side, Persia, Large parts of Africa, central Asia, etc, etc, etc, etc when the Islamic horde invaded.


 
Pakistan is a reality for millennia it has nothing to do with india.

---------- Post added at 11:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 PM ----------




metro said:


> And still we fought bravely and not converted cowardly.


 
You did not fight bravely, the conquerers downed you like raw eggs.

---------- Post added at 11:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 PM ----------




metro said:


> Yeah.. after experiencing thrashings of qasims and ghaznis, obviously my thrashing would look too small.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Even in FATA...


 
Yes, even their, I am glad to give you an education.


----------



## Kavin

Rafi said:


> My ancestors are mine, and nothing to do with india.



And still you're believing that Indians just jumped from a UFO


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> Yeah.. after experiencing thrashings of qasims and ghaznis, obviously my thrashing would look too small.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Even in FATA...


 
There again - you sure enjoy being manhandled.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> You did not fight bravely, the conquerers downed you like raw eggs.


 
haha.. they downed you, not us.. we didnt convert. u did.


----------



## Rafi

Kavin said:


> And still you're believing that Indians jumped from a UFO


 
They can jump into the sea, for all I care.


----------



## Bhairava

Rafi said:


> The jackals are dalits like you, abused for a thousand years.


 
Yet we did not did give up on our faith - so that places converts who gave up your faith for the scare of life like you beneath us.

Dont worry being beneath me is not bad - i'm a proud Gounder - a land owning Kshatriya caste down South.


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> haha.. they downed you, not us.. we didnt convert. u did.


 
Not me, my friend - you and your kind.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Lmao, this guy really thinks the invaders just jumped over the ancient people of modern Pakistan into modern India and slaughter them. You are confused son.


----------



## Rafi

Gounder said:


> Yet we did not did give up on our faith - so that places converts who gave up your faith for the scare of life like you beneath us.
> 
> Dont worry being beneath me is not bad - i'm a proud Gounder - a land owning Kshatriya caste down South.


 
My land is much more fertile than yours. And we do not fear anything - we were inspired by the great Sufi Saint's


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

The real colour of Punjab is in Indian side..the beauty,the villages,the people....festivals like Lohri,Baisakhi etc...that's what make Indian Punjab special..Pakistan Punjab-monotonously Pakistan-Islamic and nothing else.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## metro

Liquid said:


> Lmao, this guy really thinks the invaders just jumped over the ancient people of modern Pakistan into modern India and slaughter them. You are confused son.


 
he knows everything.
Just desperately trying to hide the shame and embarrassment.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Rafi

Liquid said:


> Lmao, this guy really thinks the invaders just jumped over the ancient people of modern Pakistan into modern India and slaughter them. You are confused son.


 
Not as confused as you my little indian friend.


----------



## metro

Rafi said:


> My land is much more fertile than yours. And we do not fear anything - we were inspired by the great Sufi Saint's


 
Saints like Qasims and Ghaznis..
This guy is hilarious...


----------



## Rafi

Punjabbi Munda said:


> The real colour of Punjab is in Indian side..the beauty,the villages,the people....festivals like Lohri,Baisakhi etc...that's what make Indian Punjab special..Pakistan Punjab-monotonously Pakistan-Islamic and nothing else.


 
Thank God, we got the vast majority of the Punjab - both the land and the people. And the most fertile - where the soil can grow anything.


----------



## Bhairava

Rafi said:


> My land is much more fertile than yours. And we do not fear anything - we were inspired by the great Sufi Saint's


 
Whats the use in the land being fertile if they were inhabitied by moral weaklings who will do anything just to save thier skin. Its an insult to the land actually that its inhabitants should be tamed by the conquerors from the deserts.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

metro said:


> he knows everything.
> Just desperately trying to hide the shame and embarrassment.


 
Ya, I think you're right. He knows, lmao.


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> he knows everything.
> Just desperately trying to hide the shame and embarrassment.


 
Know more than you, my little indian friend, you are the one in shame, poor hungry india.


----------



## metro

I think we have had enough fun with the troll.


----------



## Rafi

Gounder said:


> Whats the use in the land being fertile if they were inhabitied by moral weaklings who will do anything just to save thier skin. Its an insult to the land actually that its inhabitants should be tamed by the conquerors from the deserts.


 
The moral weaklings are the indians ruled for a thousand years, Wow incredible.


----------



## metro

We have been beating him up like a football passing from one guy to another. Lets give it a rest now guys.


----------



## Rafi

Liquid said:


> Ya, I think you're right. He knows, lmao.


 
This is what is known as the inferiority complex.


----------



## Rafi

metro said:


> We have been beating him up like a football passing from one guy to another. Lets give it a rest now guys.



Poor hungry little indian, I will send you some food, our fertile lands produce more than enough to send hungry unfortunates.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Gounder said:


> Whats the use in the land being fertile if they were inhabitied by moral weaklings who will do anything just to save thier skin. Its an insult to the land actually that its inhabitants should be tamed by the conquerors from the deserts.


 


metro said:


> I think we have had enough fun with the troll.





metro said:


> We have been beating him up like a football passing from one guy to another.


 
@Rafi: These guys are deliberately trying to troll you, and bait you. Just ignore them buddy.

Such a shame, that Indians can gang up on a Pakistani, in a Pakistani defence forum. Where are the moderators.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vinod2070

Rafi said:


> No my child, the mystical element of Islam was their from the start - and is present in every corner of the Islamic world.


 
Not true my little convert. You are so wrong with facts.

I already posted in post#1052 how you were converted. Ready very carefully and know this is what happened to your forefathers.

I feel sorry for them, even if converts like you surrender themselves to those invaders.


----------



## Bhairava

Rafi said:


> The moral weaklings are the indians ruled for a thousand years, Wow incredible.


 
1000 years another figure pulled straight out from the light doesnt reach. 

And weaklings who gave up their indigenous culture to adopt the ways of their oppressors,killers and masters speaking of shame. Rich, very rich.



Rafi said:


> Poor hungry little indian, I will send you some food, our fertile lands produce more than enough to send hungry unfortunates.


 
Send them to the people who are unfortunatly suffering in your country from the floods and stop begging for Flood aid. This guy is hilarious. No wonder IMF thinks Pakistanis as deceivers and liars.The same what Huan Tsang felt 1200 years ago.


----------



## Vinod2070

So the chini are here, to protect the Pakistanis on a Pakistani forum.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Kavin

Rafi said:


> They can jump into the sea, for all I care.


 
Jumped and Rules the sea.. (remember, it's a defense forum)! Kid, have a nice sleep, and tomorrow ask your father for a good military history book.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Vinod2070 said:


> So the chini are here, to protect the Pakistanis on a Pakistani forum.


 
What, you want to defend this behaviour?



metro said:


> I think we have had enough fun with the troll.





metro said:


> We have been beating him up like a football passing from one guy to another.


----------



## Rafi

Chinese-Dragon said:


> @Rafi: These guys are deliberately trying to troll you, and bait you.
> 
> Such a shame, that Indians can gang up on a Pakistani, in a Pakistani defence forum. Where are the moderators.


 
I know my brother, they are trying to get me banned, but like the great sage says. I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
Confucius

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## Punjabbi Munda

Chinese-Dragon said:


> @Rafi: These guys are deliberately trying to troll you, and bait you. Just ignore them buddy.
> 
> Such a shame, *that Indians can gang up on a Pakistani, in a Pakistani defence forum. Where are the moderators.*


That's why we advice you..don't mess with Indians and their unity


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> Not true my little convert. You are so wrong with facts.
> 
> I already posted in post#1052 how you were converted. Ready very carefully and know this is what happened to your forefathers.
> 
> I feel sorry for them, even if converts like you surrender themselves to those invaders.


 
And I have also posted before, an indians opinion means less than nothing to me.

---------- Post added at 11:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 PM ----------




Gounder said:


> 1000 years another figure pulled straight out from the light doesnt reach.
> 
> And weaklings who gave up their indigenous culture to adopt the ways of their oppressors,killers and masters speaking of shame. Rich, very rich.
> 
> 
> 
> Send them to the people who are unfortunatly suffering in your country from the floods and stop begging for Flood aid. This guy is hilarious. No wonder IMF thinks Pakistanis as deceivers and liars.The same what Huan Tsang felt 1200 years ago.


 
They are far better of than the indian people.


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

Rafi..use google and calculate how many wars Pakistan has lost to India and then do your cursive writing homework before going to bed!...


----------



## Rafi

Vinod2070 said:


> So the chini are here, to protect the Pakistanis on a Pakistani forum.


 
They are our friends and brothers.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Chinese-Dragon

Rafi said:


> I know my brother, they are trying to get me banned, but like the great sage says. I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
> Confucius


 
They are trying to flood us with numbers. 

I have no idea why the moderators allow this kind of BS to go on here. They are ganging up, and trying to hunt in packs.

It is best to ignore this kind of behaviour.


----------



## Bhairava

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Such a shame, that Indians can gang up on a Pakistani, in a Pakistani defence forum. Where are the moderators.


 
Please Save that shame when the Chinese bois gang upon that single Japanese or that US dude, whats his name ?.

Pot is unfortunately calling the kettle black.



Rafi said:


> They are far better of than the indian people.


 
Yeah thats why Pakistan is unable to feed its own people and is begging for aid from other countries. Such a shame.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vinod2070

Chinese-Dragon said:


> What, you want to defend this behaviour?


 
You are not really aware of the context. Can not be.

This guy is himself/herself/itself a big troll. No one is ganging up or anything. They are all having a little rehearsed fun.


----------



## Rafi

Punjabbi Munda said:


> That's why we advice you..don't mess with Indians and their unity


 
Mess with poor indian's = we will not let you go without food, our fertile lands will provide food - and prevent starvation.

---------- Post added at 11:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 PM ----------




Punjabbi Munda said:


> Rafi..use google and calculate how many wars Pakistan has lost to India and then do your cursive writing homework before going to bed!...


 
Well = do remember the thousand years of losing


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Rafi said:


> This is what is known as the inferiority complex.


 
Inferior to who/what?




> Please Save that shame when the Chinese bois gang upon that single Japanese or that US dude, whats his name ?.



Ha, good one. Gambit, and they LOVE that he's a Vietnamese-American too.


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

Rafi said:


> They are our friends and brothers.


Correction:"They are our dads".....


----------



## Rafi

Chinese-Dragon said:


> They are trying to flood us with numbers.
> 
> I have no idea why the moderators allow this kind of BS to go on here. They are ganging up, and trying to hunt in packs.
> 
> It is best to ignore this kind of behaviour.



You are right, CD that is why we as people are better than the average poor indian, with their inferiority complexes.

---------- Post added at 11:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 PM ----------




Punjabbi Munda said:


> Correction:"They are our dads".....


 
I know they are your dad's.

---------- Post added at 11:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------




Kavin said:


> Jumped and Rules the sea.. (remember, it's a defense forum)! Kid, have a nice sleep, and tomorrow ask your father for a good military history book.


 
I will provide my child, don't worry.


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

Rafi said:


> Mess with poor indian's = we will not let you go without food, our fertile lands will provide food - and prevent starvation.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Well = do remember the thousand years of losing


 
Pakistani calling Indian poor?Oh LOL!
And what thousand years of ruling?? talking about mughal rule?? That time Pakistan and India were one  and those mughals were not of your nationality or didn't have any link with you ..Nothing for you to be proud of.
What i am talking about is ...count the number of wars Pak has lost to India when we got separated


----------



## Rafi

Liquid said:


> Inferior to who/what?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gambit, and they LOVE that he's a Vietnamese-American


 
Why do some indians always cry about everything, this is down to the infamous inferiority complex.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Punjabbi Munda said:


> Correction:"They are our dads".....


 
China and Pakistan respect each other, we are partners.

China never forces Pakistan to do anything, we don't interfere in their internal affairs.

Pakistan as well, never interferes in our internal affairs, i.e. Xizang (Tibet), Xinjiang, etc. Because we respect each other.

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## Rafi

Punjabbi Munda said:


> Pakistani calling Indian poor?Oh LOL!
> And what thousand years of ruling?? talking about mughal rule?? That time Pakistan and India were one  and those mughals were not of your nationality or didn't have any link with you ..Nothing for you to be proud of.
> What i am talking about is ...count the number of wars Pak has lost to India when we got separated


 
We were never separated from you, but gained independence from the British Empire.


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

Rafi said:


> You are right, CD that is why we as people are better than the average poor indian, with their inferiority complexes.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> I know they are your dad's.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> I will provide my child, don't worry.


How do you get standards of average countrymen? Per capita income ..so correction:
Average Indian is poorer than Chinese(not by much) and average Indian is richer than Pakistani(again not by much)..


----------



## Prometheus

Anyone have any info where the thread starter went????


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Rafi said:


> Why do some indians always cry about everything, this is down to the infamous inferiority complex.


 
Tell be one person that is crying here? If you have a thread open about a ancient separatist movement that doesnt matter in modern India, you will see some erked Indians.




> Anyone have any info where the thread starter went????



Well you know, using another account n stuff. LOL.


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

Chinese-Dragon said:


> China and Pakistan respect each other, we are partners.
> 
> China never forces Pakistan to do anything, we don't interfere in their internal affairs.
> 
> Pakistan as well, never interferes in our internal affairs, i.e. Xizang (Tibet), Xinjiang, etc.


 
Never said that China made itself the dad of Pakistan...it's like "Pakistan has adopted a dad,china"

---------- Post added at 11:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 PM ----------




Rafi said:


> We were never separated from you, but gained independence from the British Empire.


 
Oh this guy has got weak history as well!!...


----------



## SpArK

Rafi said:


> We were never separated from you, but gained independence from the British Empire.


 
I thought that UK guy Radcliffe went to drawing board and cut the British India to pieces... now i wonder why he did it... since according to u there was a seperate country.. Gosh everyday i am learning something new .


----------



## Bhairava

Liquid said:


> Ha, good one. Gambit, and they LOVE that he's a Vietnamese-American too.


 
You should the CHinese bois in full flow against the lonely Gambit dude ot that Japanese dude and the level of their discussion - utter trash.

This is most civil by that standard and they are preaching here.


----------



## Vinod2070

Chinese-Dragon said:


> China and Pakistan respect each other, we are partners.
> 
> China never forces Pakistan to do anything, we don't interfere in their internal affairs.
> 
> Pakistan as well, never interferes in our internal affairs, i.e. Xizang (Tibet), Xinjiang, etc. Because we respect each other.


 
Interesting but nothing more than platitudes.

And you know that.

Frankly, we don't need a mediator here. If you know what I mean.


----------



## Prometheus

Bharatis should free khalistan now and so should Pakistan.
And we need a opening to the sea also for trade.......then only we can be self sufficient.


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

Rafi said:


> Why do some indians always cry about everything, this is down to the infamous inferiority complex.


 
Yaar!! WHat the hell do PAkistanis have that we ll have an inferiority complex against them?? Oh yes-Terrorists..you got so many!!

Present day Pakistan is ant sized in front of present day India..


----------



## alphamale

Prometheus said:


> Anyone have any info where the thread starter went????


 
to find khalistan on world map


----------



## metro

*Troll is still here.. Man this is one serious troll.. *


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

Bhartis ganging up a p@ki ..evil hindoooooooos


----------



## metro

Prometheus said:


> Anyone have any info where the thread starter went????


 
He got into comma after seeing his country mate being thrashed so badly.


----------



## Bhairava

Prometheus said:


> Bharatis should free khalistan now and so should Pakistan.
> And we need a opening to the sea also for trade.......then only we can be self sufficient.


 
Lahore to Karachi is yours Sardar.



Vinod2070 said:


> Interesting but nothing more than platitudes.
> 
> And you know that.
> 
> Frankly, we don't need a mediator here. If you know what I mean.


 
Everyone is having a little loosening up here and some people take it seriously and act as wannabe leaders


----------



## Kavin

Rafi said:


> Mess with poor indian's = we will not let you go without food, our fertile lands will provide food - and prevent starvation.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Well = do remember the thousand years of losing


 
Kid.. YeSS, you ruled us for 1000 years and r going to rule us for another 10000000 years, it's ok. But I want you to sleep asap, as I don't want another Pakistani patient in our hospitals as we've enough poor patients. I've 5 day's newspaper to read within this weekend filled with lot of bombardment news from Pakistan.

I assure you... you will rule us in another millennium. Good kid, so jaa bete...!


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

Vinod2070 said:


> Frankly, we don't need a mediator here. If you know what I mean.


 
We didn't need an Indian to start a thread on "Poverty in China" today either.

On topic, I would say that no country should interefere in the internal affairs of other countries. 

The "Khalistan movement" seems to have died a while ago anyway.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Prometheus

Well i dont think there will be any problem in making Lahore the capital of Khalistan ...........i see lots of Pakistani friemds caring about our home land........now its time for Bharatis to act


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

Chinese-Dragon said:


> We didn't need an Indian to start a thread on "Poverty in China" today either.
> 
> On topic, I would say that no country should interefere in the internal affairs of other countries.
> *
> The "Khalistan movement" seems to have died a while ago anyway.*


Here you go Rafi...this statement coming from your brother..


----------



## metro

*look what evil Indians did to the poor Rafi..
*


----------



## Punjabbi Munda

Prometheus said:


> Well i dont think there will be any problem in making Lahore the capital of Khalistan ...........i see lots of Pakistani friemds caring about our home land........now its time for Bharatis to act


 
by seeing Rafi 
PAkistanis seem to be ready to compromise Lahore by seeing Rafi


----------



## Nirvana

*The Thread Starter 'Khalistan Patriot' Just Creates a Thread About 'Khalistan' everytime But Never Replies Back *


----------



## Rafi

Punjabbi Munda said:


> Yaar!! WHat the hell do PAkistanis have that we ll have an inferiority complex against them?? Oh yes-Terrorists..you got so many!!
> 
> Present day Pakistan is ant sized in front of present day India..


 
My dear indian inferiority ridden friend, you have to get absolution.

---------- Post added at 11:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 PM ----------




metro said:


> *look what evil Indians did to the poor Rafi..
> *


 
He is your friend or relative??


----------



## foxbat

Rafi said:


> No my people are proud Jatt warriors we can never be forcibly converted by anyone.


 
The face save I was talking about.. Like what was offered to Leonidas by Xerxes which he refused.. Unlike in ancient Pakistan I guess...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## metro

Rafi said:


> My dear indian inferiority ridden friend, you have to get absolution.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> He is your friend or relative??


 
Ab to merko sharam aane lagi teri beijjati karte karte. terko kab aaegi bhai ?


----------



## foxbat

Rafi said:


> The jackals are dalits like you, abused for a thousand years.


 
Actually most of early converts to Islam in the subcontinents were the Hindu low caste (makes me ashamed of the hindu caste structure) people who converted to escape the caste structure of Hinduism. But unfortunately got stuck in Islam also as lower caste individuals..

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## Kavin

@ rafi
Still trolling!

Thoonga poriya, illa un appava koopidattuma?
(Sleep, else I'll call your dad!)


----------



## Bhairava

foxbat said:


> The face save I was talking about.. Like what was offered to Leonidas by Xerxes which he refused.. Unlike in ancient Pakistan I guess...



Do you have to say that ?

He is readily waiting with that video with the same old gramaphone composition saying , we were conver.....bla bl bla 



Kavin said:


> Still trolling!
> 
> Thoonga poriya, illa un appava koopidattuma?
> (Sleep, else I'll call your dad!)


 
Asking me ? I seem to be the only Tamil here apart from you ? 

otha konha neram ivan kooda vilayaduvom boss.


----------



## foxbat

Rafi said:


> Well = do remember the thousand years of losing


 
We do.. And we lost your forefathers and their faith to the invaders. We still mourn your lack of resilience and loss of faith


----------



## 53fd

Rafi said:


> Millions are though.


 
Indians forget that they were responsible for the formation of Deobandi extremism in Dar Uloom Deoband, Deoband UP, which serves as the ideological ammunition for the Taliban today. Not surprisingly, it was these Deoband extremists that opposed the formation of Pakistan; while Pakistan was (& still is) the hub of peaceful Barelvi Muslims & Sufi mystics.

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## Varad

bilalhaider said:


> Indians forget that they were responsible for the formation of Deobandi extremism in Dar Uloom Deoband, Deoband UP, which serves as the ideological ammunition for the Taliban today. Not surprisingly, it was these Deoband extremists that opposed the formation of Pakistan; while Pakistan was (& still is) the hub of peaceful Barelvi Muslims & Sufi mystics.


 
Hey man i did not know before you posted this that Deoband and bareilly have historical importance of this magnitude, Used to wonder why they are called deobandi and barelvi.


----------



## metro

bilalhaider said:


> Indians forget that they were responsible for the formation of Deobandi extremism in Dar Uloom Deoband, Deoband UP, which serves as the ideological ammunition for the Taliban today. Not surprisingly, it was these Deoband extremists that opposed the formation of Pakistan; *while Pakistan was (& still is) the hub of peaceful Barelvi Muslims & Sufi mystics*.


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## 53fd

Pakistan was doing just fine with its Sufi mystics & Barelvi Islam before Deobandi influence in India starting pervading into Pakistan as well. Ahmedis lived in Pakistan just fine along with Barelvis, Shias & all other non-Muslim minorities until the Deobandis came along in Pakistan. 

This is what the Dar Uloom Deoband in UP, India says about Ahmedis on their website, which resulted in the discrimination of Ahmedis in Pakistan:



> *(Fatwa 332=307/N)*
> 
> *The Mirzais (Qadyanis, Ahmadiyas) are kafir*. This issue is agreed upon by the Muslim Ummah.
> 
> These books may be useful: (1) Radd-e-Qadyaniat ke Zarrin Usool (2) Suboot Hazir Hain (3) Muhazarat of Darul Uloom on Qadyanism
> 
> Allah (Subhana Wa Ta'ala) knows Best



http://darulifta-deoband.org/showuserview.do?function=answerView&all=en&id=519


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## 53fd

Hence, it is India that has been responsible for the birth of Islamic extremism in South Asia & the rest of the world, not Pakistan.


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## 53fd

Darul Uloom Deoband: The Indian Source of the Taliban | Kabul Center for Strategic Studies

*Darul Uloom Deoband: The Indian Source of the Taliban:*


*History of the Deobandi movement*

The school was established in 1866, during the early period of India&#8217;s long struggle for independence from British colonial rule. The school&#8217;s founder, Maulana Mohammad Qasim Nanautvi, set up the center to establish a place where Muslims could retreat in order to escape what he believed was the corrupting encroachment of Western civilization. He wanted the school to become a place where Muslims could return to what he believed was the pure Islam, the Islam that was practiced by the Prophet and his companions. The founder must have touched on a deep longing, as the school quickly emerged as one of the most important centers of Islamic learning in the British Indian Empire.

A century later, when Britain was finally relinquishing its control on the sub-continent, the Deobandis sided with Mahama Gandhi against the leading Muslim politician at the time, Mohammad Ali Jinnah. Like Gandhi, the Deobandis opposed the idea partitioning India into two secular states, one especially for Muslims, to be called Pakistan, and the other, India &#8211; that would welcome all Indians, regardless of their beliefs.

The Deobandi scholars opposed the Jinnah plan because in their minds, there was nothing Islamic about a secular Muslim state. Maulana Husain Ahmad Madani, then head of the Deobandi movement, believed that the Islamic alternative was to have all Indians endeavor together to create a democratic state Indians of every faith. (Abdul Sattar Ghazali, Islamic Pakistan: IIlusions & Reality).

Jinnah would prevail. And so in 1947, when the subcontinent was divided, the Deobandis, elected not to move to the new state of Pakistan and instead they stayed in their traditional home, which was now in the new state of India. Soon the two new states were on hostile terms, over a dispute over which state should control the Himalayan state of Kashmir. What this meant to the Deobandis was that now followers of the movement in Pakistan had to create their own centers of learning &#8211; they no longer had the same access to the center in Deoband.

Instead of diminishing the movement&#8217;s influence, however, the international border that now bisected its sphere of influence may have strengthened the Deobandis. Now new leaders had additional space in which to grow without having to threaten the center&#8217;s power. Deobandi madrassas proliferated in the new environment and today, the force of the movement can be seen in the Deobandi madrassas that can be found, not just in India and Pakistan, but also in countries as far away as Europe and North American. An estimated 600 of Britain&#8217;s 1,350 mosques are identified as Deobandi mosques according to a London Times report. (The Times, Sep. 7, 2007).

Moreover, many of the Deobandi centers are characterized by the media as &#8220;hard-line.&#8221; (The Times, Sep. 7, 2007). This is because like the Taliban, many of the Deobandi madrassas have been linked to extremism. &#8220;Dirty bomber&#8221; Jose Padilla, for example, attended a Deobandi mosque in South Florida where he is said to have learned the interpretation of Islam that would steer him toward Al Qaeda, and land him a 17-year prison sentence for aiding terrorists. Kabul Center researchers wanted to find out what the Darul Uloom Deobandi leaders thought about the school&#8217;s various connections to terrorism and so they set out from Delhi in November.

Unfortunately, they arrived in Deoband a day earlier than expected. While the mufti, or head cleric of the school was unable to accommodate the last minute schedule changes, Adil Siddiqi, the public relations officer, was made available to the researchers. Mr. Siddiqi introduced himself, telling the researchers he has served the school in this capacity, for twenty years now, ever since he retired as an official in the Indian Ministry of Culture and Information.

A native of Deoband, Mr. Siddiqi, never attended the madrassa himself though, curiously, his father taught at the school.

He explained that he was educated in the secular system for &#8220;economic reasons&#8221; &#8211; the same reasons he chose to educate his own children &#8211; two boys and two girls &#8211; in the same state-run secular system as opposed to the Deobandi madrassa.

Like his father, he went on to say that he never imposed any religious views on his children. Though he identifies himself as a Deobandi, he never memorized the Koran and any religious education he has is &#8220;self-taught.&#8221;

In addition, he admitted that his lifestyle is not as pure as the Deobandis who stay at the center. While at the center all forms of entertainment are banned as they are considered to be corrupting. Mr. Siddiqi confessed to watching television at home &#8211; &#8220;the news,&#8221; he said, smiling. Here are excerpts from the researchers&#8217; conversation with Mr. Siddiqi.


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## Peshwa

bilalhaider said:


> Hence, it is India that has been responsible for the birth of Islamic extremism in South Asia & the rest of the world, not Pakistan.


 
Pray tell then, why is it that we see extremist Muslims in abundance in Pakistan while the epicentre of such philosophy has not been able to convert the 3rd largest Muslim population in the world away from moderate values?

By your own admission, the situation of Indian Muslims is "far worse" than that of Pakistani Muslims.....so by your logic, India should be ripe with these extremists since Indian Muslims have all reasons that a Pakistani muslim faces (poverty, lack of education etc) that drive them towards religion based extremism...

What does that tell you?? Im really interested in hearing your rationale behind the hypothesis you just put out....

PS: WTF is Deobandi Islam doing on the Khalistan thread?

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## 53fd

Peshwa said:


> Pray tell then, why is it that we see extremist Muslims in abundance in Pakistan while the epicentre of such philosophy has not been able to convert the 3rd largest Muslim population in the world away from moderate values?



India was the architect of Islamic extremism with Dar Uloom Deoband, in Deoband UP. They opposed the creation of Pakistan in 1947, but unfortunately, they have been pervading into Pakistan, removing Pakistan's original peaceful Barelvi influence. 



> By your own admission, the situation of Indian Muslims is "far worse" than that of Pakistani Muslims.....so by your logic, India should be ripe with these extremists since Indian Muslims have all reasons that a Pakistani muslim faces (poverty, lack of education etc) that drive them towards religion based extremism...



Religious extremism is milked by authorities, such as the Wahabi based Saudi Arabian monarchy that served as the ideological ammunition for the Al-Qaeda, or whether it is India's Dar Uloom Deoband in UP that served as the ideological basis for the Taliban. The authorities 'milk' these tools of religious extremism to become powerful. The churches in the West have done the same, creating a Christian like Taliban that kills doctors who perform operations, or uses bombs against health centers where abortions take place etc. The Church doesn't make Christianity or Christians inherently bad, just as the Saudi Arabian monarchy or Dar Uloom Deoband doesn't make Islam or Muslims inherently bad. 



> PS: WTF is Deobandi Islam doing on the Khalistan thread?



These things were mentioned a few pages earlier, & my posts were a response to those queries.


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## Prometheus

@bilalhaider

But history of sikhism says that it was islamic extremism that responsible of rise of khalsa..??????

And that was 300 years ago!!!!!


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## Peshwa

bilalhaider said:


> India was the architect of Islamic extremism with Dar Uloom Deoband, in Deoband UP. They opposed the creation of Pakistan in 1947, but unfortunately, they have been pervading into Pakistan, removing Pakistan's original peaceful Barelvi influence.



What is the meaning of "India was the architect"....Why does India come into the picture? I thought pre-1947, there was no country called India...So the folks who came up with such Philosophy were Muslims of the subcontinent....some of whom moved to Pakistan

That still doesnt answer why India doesnt see extremism at the same level as Pakistan.....Can you please touch on this phenomenon?




> Religious extremism is milked by authorities, such as the Wahabi based Saudi Arabian monarchy that served as the ideological ammunition for the Al-Qaeda, or whether it is India's Dar Uloom Deoband in UP that served as the ideological basis for the Taliban. The authorities 'milk' these tools of religious extremism to become powerful. The churches in the West have done the same, creating a Christian like Taliban that kills doctors who perform operations, or uses bombs against health centers where abortions take place etc. The Church doesn't make Christianity or Christians inherently bad, just as the Saudi Arabian monarchy or Dar Uloom Deoband doesn't make Islam or Muslims inherently bad.



I dont see how this answers my questions....Use of religion to control the masses has been the trait of religious leaders since the beginning of time...
So the phenomenon exists in India as much as Pakistan.....but we see diametrically opposite trends in Muslims of India and Pak although you claim that India is the epicenter of such philosophy...

Also...the misuse of philosophy cannot be blamed on India...or Indian institutions...It is the fault of the person that uses this Philosophy to spread terror...
No Indian institution has forced the Pakistanis into terrorism....so your statement....



> it is India that has been responsible for the birth of Islamic extremism in South Asia & the rest of the world, not Pakistan.



is not just flawed but an attempt at projecting your own faults onto others....


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## Khalistan Patriot



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## Khalistan Patriot



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## foxbat

bilalhaider said:


> Hence, it is India that has been responsible for the birth of Islamic extremism in South Asia & the rest of the world, not Pakistan.


 
The time you are talking of, father of Mr Jinnah was an Indian.. So India is responsible for creation o Pakistan. You exist because an Indian gave birth to your father of the nation who formed Pakistan...

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## Kavin

bilalhaider said:


> *India* was the architect of Islamic extremism with Dar Uloom Deoband, in Deoband UP.



Once upon a time, when Darul Uloom Deoband was created, *India* included Pakistan. 



> They opposed the creation of Pakistan in 1947


 
The real reason for their opposition to Partition was their desire to Islamise whole India...

aka Akhand PAKISTAN 



> but unfortunately, they have been pervading into Pakistan,


Lot of (Ex) Indian Muslims migrated to Pakistan, coz she is the _*LAND OF PURE*_ EXTREMISTS. Darul Uloom Deoband is one of them.



> removing Pakistan's original peaceful Barelvi influence


purifying your land 



> Religious extremism is milked by authorities, such as the Wahabi based Saudi Arabian monarchy that served as the ideological ammunition for the Al-Qaeda, or whether it is India's Dar Uloom Deoband in UP that served as the ideological basis for the Taliban. The authorities 'milk' these tools of religious extremism to become powerful. The churches in the West have done the same, creating a Christian like Taliban that kills doctors who perform operations, or uses bombs against health centers where abortions take place etc. The Church doesn't make Christianity or Christians inherently bad, just as the Saudi Arabian monarchy or Dar Uloom Deoband doesn't make Islam or Muslims inherently bad.


You're mixing facts, fantasy, jingoism in a sterile attempt.

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## Prometheus

Khalistan Patriot said:


>


 
Hahhahahahaha.........oh man that is funny.
Long live Simranjeet singh maan.......the saviour of sikhs.

We sent him to the damm parliament of India .....what the h ell he did there??????
Absolutly nothing.


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## 53fd

Peshwa said:


> That still doesnt answer why India doesnt see extremism at the same level as Pakistan.....Can you please touch on this phenomenon?



There is more than enough extremism in India. It's just much more 'localized'.


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## Kavin

bilalhaider said:


> The churches in the West have done the same, creating a Christian like Taliban that kills doctors who perform operations, or uses bombs against health centers where abortions take place etc. The Church doesn't make Christianity or Christians inherently bad, just as the Saudi Arabian monarchy or Dar Uloom Deoband doesn't make Islam or Muslims inherently bad.


 
But anti-abortionist executed in US (Paul Jennings Hill) unlike the GOOD TALIBANS, who are treated as Heroes in Pakistan


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## 53fd

Kavin said:


> But anti-abortionist executed in US (Paul Jennings Hill) unlike the GOOD TALIBANS, who are treated as Heroes in Pakistan


 
Talibans are executed in Pakistan as well, don't know where you got your misinformation from.


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## Rafi

Poor indians and their inherent inferiority complex.


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## Vinod2070

Both Barelvi and Deobandi strains come from India. Pakistan is still under Indian influnece like throughout history.

The Arabs can always goi back. Let's see if the current Arabs accept them.


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## Vinod2070

bilalhaider said:


> Indians forget that they were responsible for the formation of Deobandi extremism in Dar Uloom Deoband, Deoband UP, which serves as the ideological ammunition for the Taliban today. Not surprisingly, it was these Deoband extremists that opposed the formation of Pakistan; while Pakistan was (& still is) the hub of peaceful Barelvi Muslims & Sufi mystics.


 
Deoband is about a hardline interopretation of *Islam*. You have a problem, go back with it back to your sand deserts.


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## KS

foxbat said:


> The time you are talking of, father of Mr Jinnah was an Indian.. So India is responsible for creation o Pakistan. You exist because an Indian gave birth to your father of the nation who formed Pakistan...


 
Dont lie evil Bharti - he was an ancient Pakistani 

And as always we chankiyan yindoos manufactured the Islamic extremism in the heart of India (UP) and carefully shipped them away to Pakistan (till the last one) which was till then a moderate paradise. 

On one thread they yap about how India is no more than an entity as Equator and which came into being only on 15 th Aug 1947 and hence has no history and on another thread they put centuries old blame (if there was one) on India.

Little Pakistanis and their terrible identity crisis. This guy must be the clone of Sir Zion Hamid.

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## notsuperstitious

bilalhaider said:


> Indians forget that they were responsible for the formation of Deobandi extremism in Dar Uloom Deoband, Deoband UP, which serves as the ideological ammunition for the Taliban today. Not surprisingly, it was these Deoband extremists that opposed the formation of Pakistan; while Pakistan was (& still is) the hub of peaceful Barelvi Muslims & Sufi mystics.


 
Ghazi Ilm-ud-din Shaheed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sure, peaceful Barelvis and Sufis of Lahore before partition.

Of all the canards the history rewriters or the products of history rewriting spread in Pakistani society (particulalrly the younger generation), the ''Pakistani extremism is Indian'' is the most incredible. Then in the same breath these people write eulogies of Ilm Ud Din, the murderer!!!

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## 53fd

Kavin said:


> Once upon a time, when Darul Uloom Deoband was created, *India* included Pakistan.



But Dar Uloom Deoband was formed in Deoband, which is in present day Uttar Pradesh India; not Pakistan 




> The real reason for their opposition to Partition was their desire to Islamise whole India...



How could they Islamize India when they were only 30% of the entire population, & Hindus were 60%?


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## macho ki macho

fateh71 said:


> Ghazi Ilm-ud-din Shaheed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Sure, peaceful Barelvis and Sufis of Lahore before partition.
> 
> Of all the canards the history rewriters or the products of history rewriting spread in Pakistani society (particulalrly the younger generation), the ''Pakistani extremism is Indian'' is the most incredible. Then in the same breath these people write eulogies of Ilm Ud Din!!!


 


2 ghazis that have left ever lasting impact on pakistani society, one Ilmuddin and second Ghazi Mumtaz malik kaadree the famous singer of holy naattt in police custody. The famous macho hunk that even male lawyers could not resist in kissing him.

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## 53fd

Vinod2070 said:


> Deoband is about a hardline interopretation of *Islam*. You have a problem, go back with it back to your sand deserts.


 
Why are you telling me, they are your fellow Indian Muslims from Deoband, Uttar Pradesh that started the Dar Uloom Deoband, which is the reason of the Indian extremism pervading the peaceful Barelvi Islam & Sufism in Pakistan, & eventually became the ideology of the Taliban. So yes, it is India's fault for creating the Dar Uloom Deoband in Deoband, Uttar Pradesh in 1866. I don't remember Uttar Pradesh ever being a part of Pakistan.


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## notsuperstitious

bilalhaider said:


> Why are you telling me, they are your fellow Indian Muslims from Deoband, Uttar Pradesh that started the Dar Uloom Deoband, which is the reason of the Indian extremism pervading the peaceful Barelvi Islam & Sufism in Pakistan, & eventually became the ideology of the Taliban. So yes, it is India's fault for creating the Dar Uloom Deoband in Deoband, Uttar Pradesh in 1866. I don't remember Uttar Pradesh ever being a part of Pakistan.


 
I also don't see a Tehreek-E-Taliban,Uttar-Pradesh 

Conclusion - You are talking bullcrap!

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## Peshwa

Self Delete

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## Mentee

This thread was on a hibernation mode, not anymore. Guys lets break the spell and highlight Brahmin atrocities on Punjab @The Sandman @Moonlight @Areesh @PaklovesTurkiye @Max

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