# Z-20 Utility Helicopter News & Discussions



## Sasquatch

Huitong has reported it is suppose to make a first flight this year and intended to replace Mi-17 helicopter. There has also been a buzz about it in plenty of sites.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

woot chini-blackhawski

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## wakapdf




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## terranMarine

Chinese Black Hawk cracks me up


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## Yasir_Tiger

looks like a good transport chopper.


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## RIMPAC

The Z-20 and Y-20 are more important than J-21 I believe. China lacks domestic transportation of aircraft and helicopter.


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## 7freedom7

new median lift helicopter?


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## cirr

First bird's eye view of the bird courtesy of Google Maps：






Maiden flight expected before year-end

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## cnleio

China need to produce hundreds of Z-20 to replace Mi-17 and Mi-171. 
BTW don't forget China also has Z-15 project (China version EC-175). Z-20 and Z-15 will work together to improve PLA Army strength.

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## ali_raza

this look a detivative of blackhawk.


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## cnleio

ali_raza said:


> this look a detivative of blackhawk.


80% looks like a UH-60. 80s China ever imported 24x S-70 from America, so i think Chinese designers research them.

Z-20 model:

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## Sasquatch

cnleio said:


> China need to produce hundreds of Z-20 to replace Mi-17 and Mi-171.
> BTW don't forget China also has Z-15 project (China version EC-175). Z-20 and Z-15 will work together to improve PLA Army strength.



It may take time for it to happen, remember Mi-17 deals with Russia a while back. The Z-20 would be excellent transport heli in Tibet

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## Fsjal

I heard that the S-70C is the only helicopter in China capable of flying in Tibet.

Is this true?


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## Viking 63

Looks good to me !! Its a start, go CHINA....

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## cnleio

Fsjal said:


> I heard that the S-70C is the only helicopter in China capable of flying in Tibet.
> 
> Is this true?


I ever read news and pics Mi-171 from PLA Army of ChengDu military region can fly in Tibet, but American S-70 still the best flying in Tibet.

Mi-17B-7 using powerful Russian BK-2500-02 engines, special updated helo for Tibet mission.

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## cirr




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## aliaselin

cirr said:


>



1 Z-20, 1 Y-12. What are other three?


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## cnleio

aliaselin said:


> 1 Z-20, 1 Y-12. What are other three?


2x Grandpa H-5 (IL-28 copy), all retired. Other like a civil plane.

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## canadian icehole

Assuming that these are the Z-20. Anyway, I get the impression that they want satellites to see them.

*EDIT*: why are there two different date stamps?


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## Kompromat

@cnlieo

You got a sticky thread on this one.

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## cirr

A timely sticky thread dedicated to Z-20。

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## 帅的一匹

We need hell lot of this birds in Tibet, maybe hundreds of it.


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## terranMarine

I like the multi role purpose NH90 design, we need something similar as well.


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## cnleio

2013.11.20 1st leak pics of China Z-20, OKay really like China version of "Black Hawk"
*Z-20: Im coming ~! 





















*
America's UH-60 helo

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## Genesis

@cnleio 

How do we know that's not a pic of our own blackhawk rather than this Z-20?


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## Stealth

I love you darling (Chini)  mama chapay maari jaoo mari jaoo chapay lolzz


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## cnleio

Genesis said:


> @cnleio
> 
> How do we know that's not a pic of our own blackhawk rather than this Z-20?


PLA Army's all S-70 no install refueling pipe.

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## Rainmaker

Wonderful news


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## cirr

Maiden flight in Dec. 2013 after the launch of Chang'e 3.

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## nomi007

finding this pic at Chinese site

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## Gessler

nomi007 said:


> View attachment 10958
> 
> finding this pic at Chinese site



Is this Chinese? Whew!

Top one is a CH-47 Chinook copy, Middle one is probably this Z-20 (S-70 Black Hawk copy),
bottom one is a RAH-66 Comanche copy.


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## qwerrty

you're a genius


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## lcloo

Gessler said:


> Is this Chinese? Whew!
> 
> Top one is a CH-47 Chinook copy, Middle one is probably this Z-20 (S-70 Black Hawk copy),
> bottom one is a RAH-66 Comanche copy.


No, these are not Chinese, they are just using existing US helicopter designs as inspiration for preliminary study on future helicopters development. This illustration is from a publication which I doubt is authoritative or official unless it was released by AVIC which I dont think so.


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## Bilal.

nomi007 said:


> View attachment 10958
> 
> finding this pic at Chinese site




@Chinese members, please translate what's written on it.


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## Rainmaker

Gessler said:


> Is this Chinese? Whew!
> 
> Top one is a CH-47 Chinook copy, Middle one is probably this Z-20 (S-70 Black Hawk copy),
> bottom one is a RAH-66 Comanche copy.



If you can't contribute to the forum, don't talk on these forums.

If trolling, you'll be reported.


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## nomi007

Chinese also got ex-American ch-47 from Vietnam or Cambodia

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## Firoze

nomi007 said:


> View attachment 10958
> 
> finding this pic at Chinese site


Z-20 is 10t level，not the 6t level.


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## Stealth

China is going tooooooooooo fast.... with in 10 - 15 years China will rule in weapons tech! leave aside haters and copy cat etc blamers.. China will RULE!


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## cirr

There aren't many days left on this side of the year。Hope the project keeps to its timing。


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## cirr

Z-20 maiden flight successfully completed early this morning at a Northeast AB！

Congratulations！

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## Firoze

cirr said:


> Z-20 maiden flight successfully completed early this morning at a Northeast AB！
> 
> Congratulations！






cirr said:


> Z-20 maiden flight successfully completed early this morning at a Northeast AB！
> 
> Congratulations！


CDer？


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## LTE-TDD

Great news! There are two good news today, another one is J20 2003!


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## cirr

Now if you enlarge the pic and take a real，I mean real real，hard look at it。

Smog has successfully concealed the white beauty。


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## Pinnacle

congrats to chinese... 
awesome designs of both z-20 and chinook like heli.
china is not as much advanced in engine tech yet.what do u think guyz about engines they would use??


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## cirr

on 23.12.2013：

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## Firoze

There is the photo!

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## LTE-TDD

What will be next? H20?


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## aliaselin

LTE-TDD said:


> What will be next? H20?



Maybe J-10C


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## Firoze

aliaselin said:


> Maybe J-10C


Maybe J18


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## aliaselin

Firoze said:


> Maybe J18



J11D first for SAC.


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## cnleio

"BLACK HAWK"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *COPY ==> U.S.A*

I like UH-60

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## Firoze

danish falcon said:


> congrats to chinese...
> awesome designs of both z-20 and chinook like heli.
> china is not as much advanced in engine tech yet.what do u think guyz about engines they would use??


It should be WZ-10(涡轴-10).

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## 帅的一匹

Firoze said:


> There is the photo!
> View attachment 12218


Oh my Godness! That's black hawk.


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## cnleio

China Z-20 vs America UH-60

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## 帅的一匹

Image WZ10 and Z20 on indeginous LHD, i can't wait to see it. I am very proud of being a CHinese this moment.

China is getting stronger every minute and second.

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## cnleio



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## Firoze

wanglaokan said:


> Oh my Godness! That's black hawk.


Red hawk!

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## Beidou2020

This is better than the Blackhawk.

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## Genesis

you know what I don't care what people say about copying or what not.

Even if we are the only nation in the history of the world that copies, it's still ok. 

We copy because it works. We copy to make sure we can reduce casualties, we copy for peace, we copy because we are a glorious and proud people and intent to stay that way.

I would rather be the unethical dude that's winning wars, then the ethical dude getting conquered.

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## Beidou2020

Genesis said:


> you know what I don't care what people say about copying or what not.
> 
> Even if we are the only nation in the history of the world that copies, it's still ok.
> 
> We copy because it works. We copy to make sure we can reduce casualties, we copy for peace, we copy because we are a glorious and proud people and intent to stay that way.
> 
> I would rather be the unethical dude that's winning wars, then the ethical dude getting conquered.



Z-20 is better than the Blackhawk.

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## cirr

With this entering service 2-3 years from now on，we can look forward to the day when each and every of the 18 Group Armies has one aviation brigade。

We may even add an Air Assault Division for the 15th Airborne Corps。


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## cirr

A simple comparative analysis：

如图上所示，明显Z20比黑鹰更像个蝌蚪，就是机身更大而尾梁要短且要小，相应的主起落架和旋翼相对机身位置也更靠后，这意味着Z20有更大的座舱空间和内部油箱。

Z20做上述调整是应该的，在控制总重情况下还要增加内部容积，那么相应的就要缩小尾梁的尺寸，而机身尺寸的增大则要让旋翼和起落架更接近机身重心，所以旋翼和主起落架都要后移，后移后可以增加内部座舱并平衡由于增加内部油箱所带来的重心后移。另外缩小尾梁对重心向前也有好处。

Z20做这样的调整应该还是为了满足我们高原飞行和增加航程和运载能力的需要，众所周知黑鹰到国内后上青藏增加了内部副油箱，因为外挂油箱阻力大，高原气象条件恶劣，内部副油箱对飞行性能影响较小，但内部副油箱使得内部空间减小，缩小了运载能力。现在这样的调整可以不需要外挂副油箱，同时内部空间加大，可以增大航程和提高运载能力。


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## Rashid Mahmood

SH-60 is a proven design and to copy it is the best option.
China should make as much copies as it can to save time on R&D and also make an export version.

The Z-9 was also a copy of the Dauphin and is very successful.

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## IND151

Looks Nice

Post better photos please.


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## Oldman1

Beidou2020 said:


> So we went for a copy of the Blackhawk.
> 
> Pretty disappointing that despite having thousands of engineers and spending billions of dollars that we can't even design our own helicopter.
> 
> Embarrassing.



Exactly. I'm expecting innovation not imitation. And that poster who claims copying for peace. You know we got the Japanese Zero fighter plane that crashed in WW2 and we learned from it, its strengths and weaknesses. We made the Hellcat which is not a copy of the Japanese Zero but something to defeat the Zero. 

Got a CH47 decades ago from the Vietnam war, you think China would have made something different and better by that time.

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## HariPrasad

Dumb US. Unable to protect the protect the codes of their military stuff. They should die of Shame.


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## Fsjal

Oldman1 said:


> Exactly. I'm expecting innovation not imitation. And that poster who claims copying for peace. You know we got the Japanese Zero fighter plane that crashed in WW2 and we learned from it, its strengths and weaknesses. We made the Hellcat which is not a copy of the Japanese Zero but something to defeat the Zero.
> 
> Got a CH47 decades ago from the Vietnam war, you think China would have made something different and better by that time.


One thing for sure is that China could make a much modern version of the Chinook and Black Hawk. The Shenyang J-15 was an Su-33 copy and it was better than the Su-33.


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## aliaselin

A modification Black Hawk with some NH-90 feature


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## Oldman1

Fsjal said:


> One thing for sure is that China could make a much modern version of the Chinook and Black Hawk. The Shenyang J-15 was an Su-33 copy and it was better than the Su-33.



Could but thats just improvements, not innovating. Improve engines, avionics, the frame, but still the same. How about making something like an Osprey helo version?

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## Fsjal

Oldman1 said:


> How about making something like an Osprey helo version?


I don't think making an Osprey is easy.


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## Oldman1

aliaselin said:


> A modification Black Hawk with some NH-90 feature



I don't see any NH 90 characteristics.

You want improvements go for this.








Fsjal said:


> I don't think making an Osprey is easy.



Don't the Chinese have any concepts of the tilt rotor version?


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## Fsjal

Oldman1 said:


> I don't see any NH 90 characteristics.
> 
> You want improvements go for this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't the Chinese have any concepts of the tilt rotor version?


Ask the Chinese members.


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## Oldman1

Fsjal said:


> Ask the Chinese members.



Hence why I asked does the Chinese have any. Not you. Unless you know something.

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## cnleio

Soon Z-20 will replace S-70 and Mi-171 in PLA Army, this time China can build 1000x Z-20 helicopters.

Amazing~!

PLA Army's S-70:






PLA Army's Mi-17

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## Beast

I dont think Mi-17 will go away soon. Its huge cargo capacity is a big plus compare to S-70 despite much inferior performance.



Rashid Mahmood said:


> SH-60 is a proven design and to copy it is the best option.
> China should make as much copies as it can to save time on R&D and also make an export version.
> 
> The Z-9 was also a copy of the Dauphin and is very successful.



Z-9 original was a licensed produced of Dauphin. French still provide 20% of the component to China in the early 2000s. Of cos, China is now able to 100% manufactured Z-9.


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## aliaselin

Oldman1 said:


> I don't see any NH 90 characteristics.
> 
> You want improvements go for this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't the Chinese have any concepts of the tilt rotor version?


See the bottom


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## Oldman1

aliaselin said:


> See the bottom



Be more specific.


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## Kompromat

Great, now we can replace our 100s of US built copters too. Pakistan should throw the hat in for local production to replace our aging Bells and MIs.


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## graphican

Aeronaut said:


> Great, now we can replace our 100s of US built copters too. Pakistan should throw the hat in for local production to replace our aging Bells and MIs.



May be in next 10 years time unless Chinese fellows produce the block-II earlier than that.


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## nomi007



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## Sanchez

If someone invented an umbrella, Chinese don't need to re-invent it but make improvements. That is also an innovative process.


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## Srinivas

Chinese defense toys won't work against USA or western countries, because of their cheap copied designs.

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## Jguo

Notable Differences so far:

- 5 blades instead of 4
- Back landing wheel is more aft
- Slightly different nose geometry
- A protrude at the nose (possibly sensors)
- Slightly thinner tail-boom/bigger fuselage (this can be seen by the slight bulge at the aft fuselage as opposed to the flat belly of the blackhawk)
- Bigger tail-fins
- Different wind-shields/cockpit


And this is my personal opinion: the Z-20 looks bigger than the Blackhawk (which justifies the need for one more rotor blade). We'll have to wait for a more clear picture to be sure of the details.

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## Alfa-Fighter

nice copy, must be made the from the hacking data....


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## Speeder 2

^^^

When you think sh@t, say sh@t, and do sh@t in harmony, it's called happyness --- Mahatma Gandhi

No wonder Indians are in such a happy state .

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## Luftwaffe

Aeronaut said:


> Great, now we can replace our 100s of US built copters too. Pakistan should throw the hat in for local production to replace our aging Bells and MIs.


 
Eventually in future PA might replace Bell 412s with something like these, it makes sense we should slowly get rid of US equipment if not all and start in house certain components development and china can give you license to manufacture certain spares/components.


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## Kompromat

@Luftwaffe

Lets start ATAK production to gain experiance. We can have Z-20 local production with upgrades later. Less US equipment means more freedom and higher capability to fight wars.

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## Luftwaffe

Aeronaut said:


> @Luftwaffe
> 
> Lets start ATAK production to gain experiance. We can have Z-20 local production with upgrades later. Less US equipment means more freedom and higher capability to fight wars.


 
Exactly! we are not completely out of funds sure we can't invest a billion even $500m but small investments around $30-40m is a good start with both Turkey and China...No worries i am confident regarding these good local development of gunships/transport helicopters and transport aircrafts in China and Turkey that can really get us out of dependence on the west post 2025+ means in the long run local industry and jobs and independence to integrate and develop.

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## Beidou2020

Most important thing for any country is to reduce its dependence on the west for everything especially defence equipment.

Anyone buying western weapons will lose their independent foreign policy.

Best thing that ever happened to China was that we were banned from buying western weapons.

Blessing in disguise.

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## Gessler

Beidou2020 said:


> This is better than the Blackhawk.



Why do you say that?


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## Basel

Why China is coming with copies when they have so much experience, tech and resources available to them, please bring out your innovation. Follow the Germans how the changed so many things in warfare even when they were nearly on bottom of the earth after WW-I.

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## Beast

Alfa-Fighter said:


> nice copy, must be made the from the hacking data....



So easy to hack, any countries shall be making one? Sourgrape from Indian?

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Congratulation to all chinese people, finally we can tell American not to fuk with China by setting embargo after Tien An men square event, soon or later we will fuk them back. I remember how Chinese gorvernment was furious against US embargo and due to the technology limitation we couldn't copy the blackhawk in 1990s and the project has to put on halt.

Now we can send a clear message to American, "you've violated the contractual agreement as supplying spare parts, then you can say kiss and goodbye for your Intellectual property" not only we no longer need your spare parts and we can build as many as we want this so call BlackHawk clones...Hahahahha.

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## Beidou2020

Imagine exporting the Z-20 Redhawk to other countries and as a result the American Blackhawk loses sales orders lol

Americans will be furious lol


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## 帅的一匹

I wanna drive Z20 to my office.

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## Speeder 2

wanglaokan said:


> I wanna drive Z20 to my office.




try drive H-20 instead, no traffic light, guaranteed.

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## cirr

Likely composition of the aviation arm of a typical Chinese Group Army:

（1）one communication、search and rescue battalion 12 Z-9
（2）one reconnaissance battalion 12 Z-19
（3）two attack battalions 24 Z-10/10A
（4）four utility battalions 48 Z-20
（5）two heavy battallions 12 Z-18 and 12 Z-XX（new heavy lifter under development）

for a total of 120 choppers。

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Srinivas said:


> Chinese defense toys won't work against USA or western countries, because of their cheap copied designs.


 
At least it works against India that's why your gorvernment spent billions and billions to buy western and Russia equiments (Rafale, Su30-mki...) to counter cheap Chinese copies .

As for USA and other, we know how to find "*the subtile proper unprovocative answer*" to them until the real moment so settle some scores; if cheap copied designs is the answers to defeat USA..then I'm pretty sure that India and others will have no hesitation to imitated China.

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## terranMarine

Srinivas said:


> Chinese defense toys won't work against USA or western countries, because of their cheap copied designs.



You mean Indian copy of the AK-47 won't work?

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## 帅的一匹

Red Hawk will have navy and rescue version in the future, which means a huge market for 1500 units plus. This will be sold to any nation who can't afford to buy black Hawk meanwhile want its very performance..

装备5片叶桨跟发动机输出功率不足有关系么？

USA might feel very regret sold China S70 in 1980s.

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## Beast

wanglaokan said:


> Red Hawk will have navy and rescue version in the future, which means a huge market for 1500 units plus. This will be sold to any nation who can't afford to buy black Hawk meanwhile want its very performance..
> 
> 装备5片叶桨跟发动机输出功率不足有关系么？
> 
> USA might feel very regret sold China S70 in 1980s.



With or without the S70, China will be able to RE the helo by now..

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## Beast

terranMarine said:


> You mean Indian copy of the AK-47 won't work?


 I backed your words.. 

BBC NEWS | Business | Kalashnikov upset by Indian 'copy'

Indian are full of sourgrapes. They cant beat it then they will act tough which makes them more like a fool

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## 帅的一匹

We did take S70 for reference to develop new generation helo, but we don't just simply copy it(new engine, new control interface, different aerodynamic configuration, integral composite paddle). Z20 is a completely new born baby, who is gonna have a brilliant future.

PLA army aviation regiment still use S70 inducted at 1980s, which means PLA very much appreciate the performance of S70. Now we finally could produce alike performance helo by our own, thanks God!

S70 is the start point, not the destination.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

cirr said:


> on 23.12.2013：



This looks like the same helicopter that we allowed Chinese to take a closer look at its crash and composite materials

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## rcrmj

lol, the americans will go madddd```and some of their subjective yet primitive Indian will go along with it```look``post 27 is a fine display

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## trident2010

Oldman1 said:


> How about making something like an Osprey helo version?



If they get one osprey from somewhere they might make it. No guarantee if it will have same performance but yes it will look same. Chinese have mastered the art of making fakes. As usual no correct specifications will be given since all of these are secrets lolzz.


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## aliaselin

wanglaokan said:


> Red Hawk will have navy and rescue version in the future, which means a huge market for 1500 units plus. This will be sold to any nation who can't afford to buy black Hawk meanwhile want its very performance..
> 
> 装备5片叶桨跟发动机输出功率不足有关系么？
> 
> USA might feel very regret sold China S70 in 1980s.



They say it's less noisy.

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## j20blackdragon

Think V-44 instead of V-22.

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## bolo

Genesis said:


> you know what I don't care what people say about copying or what not.
> 
> Even if we are the only nation in the history of the world that copies, it's still ok.
> 
> We copy because it works. We copy to make sure we can reduce casualties, we copy for peace, we copy because we are a glorious and proud people and intent to stay that way.
> 
> *I would rather be the unethical dude that's winning wars, then the ethical dude getting conquered.*



True. 千方百計


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## Fsjal

j20blackdragon said:


> Think V-44 instead of V-22.


And the Americans and Indians will claim it's a copy of the V-22 because it's a tilt rotor.


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## Irfan Baloch

Oldman1 said:


> Exactly. I'm expecting innovation not imitation. And that poster who claims copying for peace. You know we got the Japanese Zero fighter plane that crashed in WW2 and we learned from it, its strengths and weaknesses. We made the Hellcat which is not a copy of the Japanese Zero but something to defeat the Zero.
> 
> Got a CH47 decades ago from the Vietnam war, you think China would have made something different and better by that time.


also thanks to the Iraqi defector who hijacked the Mig21, and flew to Israel.... its weaknesses were learnt and had a role in Israel's total victory and it was not really a fight in the air but a clubbing the seals event.



Fsjal said:


> I don't think making an Osprey is easy.


there might be one in the workshop being built and panted at the moment


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## Irfan Baloch

Sanchez said:


> If someone invented an umbrella, Chinese don't need to re-invent it but make improvements. That is also an innovative process.


wrong analogy

this shows lack of thought and blatant and mind numbing propensity of copying
it hurts me to say it but come on China .. there is a limit to everything


where is the originality gone?
all that millennium old heritage of beautiful, paintings and porcelain culturally, gardens, architecture and art lost in the sands of time? where is all the creativity gone?

I cringe with disappointment when I see yet another plagiarism and recoil even more when my fellow countrymen have wet dreams that these Chinese rip off will help us in Ghazwa e Hind and our world conquest.

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## Oldman1

Fsjal said:


> And the Americans and Indians will claim it's a copy of the V-22 because it's a tilt rotor.



Where you think he got the name V-44 from?

V-44 Quad Tiltrotor (QTR) concept helicopter : theBRIGADE










Possible C130 gunship replacement.









In wind tunnel test.






Added bonus, a girl pic in the link.


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## 帅的一匹

Irfan Baloch said:


> wrong analogy
> 
> this shows lack on thought and blatant and mind numbing propensity of copying
> it hurts me to say it but come on China .. there is a limit to everything
> 
> 
> where is the originality gone?
> all that millennium old heritage of beautiful, paintings and porcelain culturally, gardens, architecture and art lost in the sands of time? where is all the creativity gone?
> 
> I cringe with disappointment when I see yet another plagiarism and recoil even more when my fellow countrymen have wet dreams that these Chinese rip off will help us in Ghazwa e Hind and our world conquest.


This baby will solve lots of problem that cause hundreds of casualty of our precious pilots. I wanna reiterate here that Z20 is not a copy(engine, paddle, electronic devise, control interface, aerodynamic configuration), it just take S70 for some reference. Our destroyer could carry two Z20 navy version for anti-sub mission instead of carring ONE Z9 or K31. iT'S a great leap to PLA army and marine, hope you could understand. PA officers will be invited to take on board of Z2O and they will tell how it feels sometime in the future. Chinese weapon sure is not the top notch in the world range, but it offers all Pakistan takes to defend its very land. The most sincere of a friendship is not whether your friend offers you the best in the world, but to offers the best he has. Pakistan and China are Brother country forever.



boomslang said:


> And THAT'S why the Chinese will always be two or three steps behind the West. Never a creator, only a cheap knock-off. Their stuff is like the knock-off Rolexs' you can buy in Chinatown in New York. They look nice, they're dirt cheap, but two weeks later they have springs and cogs flying out all over.


sourgrape, take it easy.



SR-91 said:


> *U will have to wait for the Americans to build it first.**Then u can copy it.*


what we care is whether it works. How you gonna deal with CHina, copyright infringement?



Irfan Baloch said:


> wrong analogy
> 
> this shows lack on thought and blatant and mind numbing propensity of copying
> it hurts me to say it but come on China .. there is a limit to everything
> where is the originality gone?
> all that millennium old heritage of beautiful, paintings and porcelain culturally, gardens, architecture and art lost in the sands of time? where is all the creativity gone?
> 
> I cringe with disappointment when I see yet another plagiarism and recoil even more when my fellow countrymen have wet dreams that these Chinese rip off will help us in Ghazwa e Hind and our world conquest.


We are lagging behind too much makes it very difficult to innovate, we will see lots of new stuff rolling out in the future. Be patient, my friend.


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## cirr

There are more helicopters in the pipeline。

China will roll out 8-10 types of conventional and “unconventional” choppers over the next 5 years。

Interesting time ahead。

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## cirr

Those who think that Z-20 is a copy of the Black Hawk need to have their heads examined。

Chinese are calling Z-20 a replicate of the UH-60 only to make fun of those dunderheads。

By the way，Indians need not reply。You lot can't even make a working rifle。

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

boomslang said:


> And THAT'S why the Chinese will always be two or three steps behind the West. Never a creator, only a cheap knock-off. Their stuff is like the knock-off Rolexs' you can buy in Chinatown in New York. They look nice, they're dirt cheap, but two weeks later they have springs and cogs flying out all over.


 
Your assessement is completely wrong: the one who can't make will never have chance to leapfog such as India's case: these people are condamed to buy and to be depend on western nations for ever on military procuments. We Chineses already proved with intention not only to catch up the western with our J-20 and J-31 that are still on development stages, but also "try" to be at the podium of leading edge technologies: we have no hesitation to undertake the stealthy unmanned fighter project to answer U.S X-47...copying is just a warming up process for our engineers and scientists before give them the challenging tasks.

And do you know that with Chinese's cheap knock-off junk had virtually banckrupted American civilian manufacturing industries because American people don't care, they just want affordable cheap chinese good than expensive one's made in America...same go to Satellite launch business, South America such Boliva, Brazil and other african countries used Chinese cheap knock of sat launch service instead the expensive western counterpart. I dare to say that eventually with Chinese military knock off toys, we will eventually make its affordable to this world and bankrup U.S militaro-complexe the same fashion.

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## cirr

wanglaokan said:


> Oh my, you guys are pathetic. You don't have one, you have to buy one.



Don't waste time with those still climbing the very low rungs of the ladder。

From top-level design to prototype，less than 3 years，a feat that our southern neighbour can't even dream of。

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## S10

boomslang said:


> I don't have 'sour grapes.' Why should I ? WE'RE the innovators. Chinese are the cheap knock-offs. YOU are the one who should be bummed out. Not an innovative bone in you.


Was that before you copied a bunch of British designs during the emergence as an industrial power. Or was it after you stole a bunch of German designs after World War II? How's stealing European technological and commercial secrets through the NSA going for you?

Do you ever look in the mirror before calling someone ugly?



boomslang said:


> And THAT'S why the Chinese will always be two or three steps behind the West. Never a creator, only a cheap knock-off. Their stuff is like the knock-off Rolexs' you can buy in Chinatown in New York. They look nice, they're dirt cheap, but two weeks later they have springs and cogs flying out all over.


For a country less than 250 years old, you sure throw around the term "always" pretty liberally. China had been one of the most technologically advanced civilization, if not the most, for the past two millenniums. We only fell behind starting in the 18th century. The British once accused you of being the same "copy cat". I love how you claim we never "create" anything. Perhaps you never used paper, gunpowder, compass or read a printed book in your life? You should consider completing the 10th grade before embarrassing yourself.

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## boomslang

S10 said:


> ...Perhaps you never used paper, gunpowder, compass or read a printed book in your life? You should consider completing the 10th grade before embarrassing yourself.




This is the same argument muslims make about how advanced they WERE. Paper ? Great !! But what have you done in the last 2000 years ? Squat, that's what.

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## 帅的一匹

boomslang said:


> This is the same argument muslims make about how advanced they WERE. Paper ? Great !! But what have you done in the last 2000 years ? Squat, that's what.


More than you could swallow for a guy from a country that only has some 2oo plus years history.

Now leave this thread before i report you trolling and deviating thread.

Time to sleep as its mid night of washington time.

I guess you are a false flag or some random Indian employee makes ends meet in US.

let's back to topic, when will Z20 being inducted?

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## Guynextdoor2

Oldman1 said:


> Exactly. I'm expecting innovation not imitation. And that poster who claims copying for peace. You know we got the Japanese Zero fighter plane that crashed in WW2 and we learned from it, its strengths and weaknesses. We made the Hellcat which is not a copy of the Japanese Zero but something to defeat the Zero.
> 
> Got a CH47 decades ago from the Vietnam war, you think China would have made something different and better by that time.


 
besides, the CCP approving only 'Copy' projects is actually an insult to Chinese engineers and their Industry. I'm quite convinced that in there are people with real brains and talent who can come up with truly original stuff. But because their bosses have a policy of funding only copy projects they spend all their time looking at photos and drafting and get the bad reputation for being 'cheap copycats'. This is stupid and sets in place a wrong culture that'll take a long time to go away.


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## S10

boomslang said:


> This is the same argument muslims make about how advanced they WERE. Paper ? Great !! But what have you done in the last 2000 years ? Squat, that's what.


In the last 2000 years? How about being the dominant power in Asia until the 18th century?

Too distant for you? How about having the world's largest industry output today?

I was thinking you were ignorant, but now you're going into the stupid territory.

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## Kompromat

*STICK TO THE TOPIC!!*

​

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## Sasquatch

Aeronaut said:


> *STICK TO THE TOPIC!!*
> ​




Agreed I'm going to start banning since the threads been derailed.

On topic this is a excellent stride for us older S-70's and Mi-17 can be replaced, Y-20 and Z-20 will enhance our transportation/lift capabilities especially in Xizang.


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## j20blackdragon

cirr said:


> There are more helicopters in the pipeline。
> 
> China will roll out 8-10 types of conventional and “unconventional” choppers over the next 5 years。
> 
> Interesting time ahead。



Unconventional is right. Z-20 is just the tip of the iceberg.

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## nomi007




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## Fsjal

Oldman1 said:


> Where you think he got the name V-44 from?
> 
> V-44 Quad Tiltrotor (QTR) concept helicopter : theBRIGADE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Possible C130 gunship replacement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In wind tunnel test.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Added bonus, a girl pic in the link.


Isn't it designed by Boeing?



Hu Songshan said:


> On topic this is a excellent stride for us older S-70's and Mi-17 can be replaced, Y-20 and Z-20 will enhance our transportation/lift capabilities especially in Xizang.


I don't think China should quickly replace the Mi-17.

The Z-20 could supplement the Mi-17 fleet. If so, China will have a huge number of helicopters.


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## Luftwaffe

Fsjal said:


> Isn't it designed by Boeing?
> 
> 
> I don't think China should quickly replace the Mi-17.
> 
> The Z-20 could supplement the Mi-17 fleet. If so, China will have a huge number of helicopters.


 
Z-20 is still in prototype stage, Mi-17/171 will not be replaced so soon they have their own sets of capabilities. But it is clear China wants to get rid of any product it imported with its own in time as the technologies mature and product becomes available for in house mass development. Z-9/Z-10/Z-11/Z-19/Z-20 will continue to operate for the purpose they are developed. Personally I would like to see Z-9W [gunship] replaced with Z-19 with a 23-30mm auto cannon mounted.

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## cirr



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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Z-20 is good for high altitude such Tibet plateau, we can create a massive high altitude rapid assault troopers near Indian border and provide logistic support to India's front soldiers.

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## Nishan_101

cirr said:


>



For PA, PN and PAF a combination of Z-9 and Z-20s will be best along with something Mi-17s which China haven't produced yet.


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## mike168




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## cirr

The former boss of AVIC visits Harbin Aircraft Co. Ltd.






See Z-20 in the background?

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## GeHAC

cirr said:


> The former boss of AVIC visits Harbin Aircraft Co. Ltd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See Z-20 in the background?



Utility helicopters are urgently demended,hope it comes into mass production before 2017

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## Kompromat

GeHAC said:


> Utility helicopters are urgently demended,hope it comes into mass production before 2017



We too need UHs very urgently, i hope we could get some of these helos in the future for our replacement program.


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## Genesis

Aeronaut said:


> We too need UHs very urgently, i hope we could get some of these helos in the future for our replacement program.


I never get why Pakistan just don't go for American products. If F-16 is on the table, what isn't on the table.

Expensive yes, but no wait time, and highly effective. 

I would certainly go American if given the choice.

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## Kompromat

Genesis said:


> I never get why Pakistan just don't go for American products. If F-16 is on the table, what isn't on the table.
> 
> Expensive yes, but no wait time, and highly effective.
> 
> I would certainly go American if given the choice.



Its not about Chinese products or American products. Its about us having great faith in China and its historic support for us in the time of need. 

History of the Pakistan Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## BigDaddyWatch

Its has been quiet with the Z-20 helicopter after its first flight. What is happening ? Does anyone has an update ?


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## Genesis

BigDaddyWatch said:


> Its has been quiet with the Z-20 helicopter after its first flight. What is happening ? Does anyone has an update ?


no news.


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## JSCh



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## Echo_419

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Z-20 is good for high altitude such Tibet plateau, we can create a massive high altitude rapid assault troopers near Indian border and provide logistic support to India's front soldiers.



You mean Chinese troops rightright


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## Echo_419

Genesis said:


> I never get why Pakistan just don't go for American products. If F-16 is on the table, what isn't on the table.
> 
> *Expensive* yes, but no wait time, and highly effective.
> 
> I would certainly go American if given the choice.


The answer lies in your question


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## Viper0011.

Genesis said:


> I never get why Pakistan just don't go for American products. If F-16 is on the table, what isn't on the table.
> Expensive yes, but no wait time, and highly effective..



Since the US has gotten so close to India, the Pak Military's priorities are changing. They want to diversify their product portfolio. In case of -16's, there is not really a 1:1 alternative from the Chinese, so they are using American products where necessary. Everything else, they are preferring from elsewhere.
Being expensive is a huge factor too. Inside Pak Military's circle, they'd like to use cost prohibitive products and become independent of spare / sanction issues. So China meets both the strategic needs.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Echo_419 said:


> You mean Chinese troops rightright


 
Eh...Yes, I think India is planning to acquire blackhawks too if I'm not mistaken.


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## Echo_419

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Eh...Yes, I think India is planning to acquire blackhawks too if I'm not mistaken.



No To much reliance on US will do us no good,that's why Apaches are being bought in such low numbers
Our main Attack help fleet will consist of Homegrown Choppers & we have Russian Mi-17s for that role


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## conworldus

Now, I want a Z-20 for myself if I have enough money... That thing is beautiful.



Echo_419 said:


> No To much reliance on US will do us no good,that's why Apaches are being bought in such low numbers
> Our main Attack help fleet will consist of Homegrown Choppers & we have Russian Mi-17s for that role



Doesn't Apache cost like 65 million dollars a piece? Even a low number is beyond anything I can ever dream to afford!


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## Echo_419

conworldus said:


> Now, I want a Z-20 for myself if I have enough money... That thing is beautiful.
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't Apache cost like 65 million dollars a piece? Even a low number is beyond anything I can ever dream to afford!



That's why we are buying Apaches in Low Nos the. Main component of our attack helo fleet will be made of home made choppers


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## cnleio

Z-20 still in testing

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## Deino

Is this confirmed a Z-20 ??? ... I just found that image too but to admit I'm very unsure ... could also only be a S-70 Blackhawk !??


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## DANGER-ZONE

cnleio said:


> Z-20 still in testing
> 
> View attachment 180506



Zoom in your picture and see the rare landing gear.
Z-20 has half covered landing gear and in the picture you posted, its bare.
In short, its BLACK-HAWK.


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## Beast

DANGER-ZONE said:


> Zoom in your picture and see the rare landing gear.
> Z-20 has half covered landing gear and in the picture you posted, its bare.
> In short, its BLACK-HAWK.



The most obvious tell sign is the tail rotor. Take note of it at left or right. Cnleio is correct. That is a Z-20.


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## Deino

Beast said:


> The most obvious tell sign is the tail rotor. Take note of it at left or right. Cnleio is correct. That is a Z-20.



Nope ... the image of that Blackhawk posted above is mirrored. Usually a Blackhawk has its tail-rotor exactly on the same side. So I agree with the others here the landing gear is the important detail ... and from that it is a S-70.

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## DANGER-ZONE

Beast said:


> The most obvious tell sign is the tail rotor. Take note of it at left or right. Cnleio is correct. That is a Z-20.



lol ... UH-60 rotor is on the right side probably because it is PS - FLIPPED image.

Now on which side the tail rotor is here


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## Zarvan

DANGER-ZONE said:


> Zoom in your picture and see the rare landing gear.
> Z-20 has half covered landing gear and in the picture you posted, its bare.
> In short, its BLACK-HAWK.


Turkey is also planning to build similar one @Neptune @Horus @xenon54


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## Neptune

Zarvan said:


> Turkey is also planning to build similar one @Neptune @Horus @xenon54



TAI T-70 will be the most advanced variant of S-70i, hence Sikorsky will use Aselsan's cockpit for future Blackhawk exports. Currently 151 Blackhawks are in service.

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## Deino

By the way - and esp. since that image posted yesterday was not a Z-20 - ... are there any recent news like reports about its testing, additional prototypes, ... about the Z-20 !??

Deino


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## Sasquatch

Deino said:


> By the way - and esp. since that image posted yesterday was not a Z-20 - ... are there any recent news like reports about its testing, additional prototypes, ... about the Z-20 !??
> 
> Deino



Second prototype is being built, you will see it later on in the year.

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## cirr

It has been a long time。

Z-20 and Z-18A











Welcome to Mohe！the characters carved out of the snow say

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## Kompromat

Z-20 is something Pakistan Army Aviation would be watching very closely. 

Do we have any specs so far?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

cirr said:


> It has been a long time。
> 
> Z-20 and Z-18A
> 
> View attachment 189667
> 
> 
> View attachment 189668
> 
> 
> Welcome to Mohe！the characters carved out of the snow say



can you post clearer pics of the black hawk look alike?



Horus said:


> Z-20 is something Pakistan Army Aviation would be watching very closely.
> 
> Do we have any specs so far?



Meh.. wish we had our own chopper project....

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## j20blackdragon

Time to build a Chinese 101st Airborne to defend our new empire across Asia.

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## Sasquatch

j20blackdragon said:


> Time to build a Chinese 101st Airborne to defend our new empire across Asia.



@Deino  

Second Z-20 is being built.

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## Deino

Yes indeed ... there are a few changes to no. 1


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## HRK

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> can you post clearer pics of the black hawk look alike?

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## Deino

Hu Songshan said:


> @Deino
> 
> Second Z-20 is being built.




But just with the enlarged image posted it still seems to be '20001' !

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## Genesis

Deino said:


> But just with the enlarged image posted it still seems to be '20001' !



These things, just don't excite me that much anymore, I think it's because I'm spoiled, any other country would love the new destroyers, the new helicopters, a fifth or even 4+ gen fighter, but I feel like unless we get a leader in the field, it's just catching up. That's existing in its own right, but not the same.

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## Sasquatch

Deino said:


> But just with the enlarged image posted it still seems to be '20001' !



It is, there is a photo of a possible second prototype in a factory.


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## QAMAR SHAZAD

good luck bird v cool and nice


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## Major Shaitan Singh

The Z-18A is a heavily redesigned version of the Z-8, which in turn was a license production of the forty year old French Super Frelon helicopter. The fourteen ton Z-18 has far more powerful engines, digital avionics, an infrared video camera and a larger camera space. Of note, the Z-18 has become the workhorse of the Liaoning aircraft carrier, with airborne warning and anti-submarine versions already in service. The dark green Z-18A has been tailored for Army operations with features such as an aerodynamically efficient nose, terrain following radar, satellite communications system and high altitude engines that enable it to fly in the high altitude Himalayas.




Z-20 First Flight

ayanamei at lt.cdjby.net

The first Z-20 prototype, numbered "20001", made its first flight on December 23, 2013. While it is has been rarely seen since then, it's likely to have been put through an extensive flight testing schedule in 2014.

Ironically, the only known Z-20 prototype, "20001", has not seen its photographs posted online as much as far more sensitive aviation projects like the J-20 stealth fighter. This could be due to a lack of interest from Chinese military watchers, or that its testing occurs in more remote areas compared to fighters. But with a second prototype apparently under construction as of summer 2014, the Z-20 will become more prominent on the Internet in the year to come.




Z-20 CGI

Andreas Rupprecht at China Defense Forum

This computed generated image shows the Z-20 from the side, front and top. It is an accurate rendering of important differences between it and the SH-60, including the cockpit, number of rotor blades (5 vs. 4), tail and driveshaft.





Sikorski UH-60 Blackhawk

U.S. Government

This three image drawing shows the American UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter, of which the Z-20 shares several similarities with (most notably in the main fuselage). China bought 24 S-70s (the export version of the UH-60) in the 1980s.

First flying on December 23, 2013, the Z-20 shares similarities and components, like the passenger cabin, with the ubiquitous American S-70/UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter (China currently owns about 22 S-70s). However, the Z-20 has five blade (vs. the S-70's four blade) main rotor, Chinese engines and gearbox, and a smaller tail. The Z-20 weighs about ten tons and can either carry four tons of external cargo or twelve infantry. Once in service, the Z-20 would replace China's foreign designed Z-9 and Mi-171 helicopters, providing various military units such as mountain troops and submarine hunters with a capable air platform. It would also operate as a search and rescue, transport and anti-submarine warfare helicopter for Chinese warships too small to carry the Z-18.

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## cirr

Z-20？？？











Quite a few police escort vehicles were spotted nearby。

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## cirr

Z-20 632






The appearance of number ”632“ indicates that the Z-20 programme is going extremely well。

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## Deino

cirr said:


> Z-20 632
> 
> 
> The appearance of number ”632“ indicates that the Z-20 programme is going extremely well。



Yes indeed, that's a hint for that.

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## cirr

for comparison

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## cnleio

cirr said:


> for comparison


OMG ... if 2,000x Z-20s serving in China, PLA Army can looks like "U.S.A" 

BRAVO !

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## Beast

From the 2 photo, we still can see many difference between Chinese hawk and US Hawk.

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## Deino

Beast said:


> From the 2 photo, we still can see many difference between Chinese hawk and US Hawk.




Yes, but the Z-20's image has been mirrored ! ... here's the original one ...

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Deino said:


> Yes, but the Z-20's image has been mirrored ! ... here's the original one ...
> View attachment 196971


 
The landing visibility of Z-20 seems to be an interesting modification over the Black hawk, this is feature is important improvement to make it easier to land on the shiip.

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## SOHEIL




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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

SOHEIL said:


>


 
How you like our Chini-black hawk?  so much for American's embargo, we dont need to pay a dime for royalty, patent or copy right .

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## SOHEIL

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> How you like our Chini-black hawk?  so much for American's embargo, we dont need to pay a dime for royalty, patent or copy right .

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## cnleio

SOHEIL said:


>


Future can export "China Hawk" to foreign nations, no doubt cheaper than original 'Black Hawk' & good quality !

'China Hawk' vs 'Black Hawk', that must be very interesting ...

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Send a squadron our way please !! We need choppers

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## Dr. Strangelove

americans wont sell us blackhawks they keep selling us the bell choppers 
great in a few years this baby can solve a lot of our problems

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## jhungary

j20blackdragon said:


> Time to build a Chinese 101st Airborne to defend our new empire across Asia.



Chopper is for Air Assault, not airborne....

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## Kompromat

Dr. Stranglove said:


> americans wont sell us blackhawks they keep selling us the bell choppers
> great in a few years this baby can solve a lot of our problems



This is a very attractive option for PA. If we can get a local production line of these, we can replace almost all old helos from PAA as well as add more in strength.

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## cirr

Z-15 with domestically developed engine（WZ-16？）to make maiden flight soon，according to Mr. Yu Feng，General Manager of AVIC Helicopters Co. Ltd。

finance.sina.com.cn/stock/s/20150304/231421645885.shtml

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## Deino

Our friend spotted again ...

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## cirr

This has to be the 4th locality after Harbin、Yanliang and Mohe where Z-20 had been spotted。

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## Deino

cirr said:


> This has to be the 4th locality after Harbin、Yanliang and Mohe where Z-20 had been spotted。




Any info where this image was taken ???

By the way here a bit larger ....

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## cirr

*Competition for China's future helicopter being held in Beijing*



Staff Reporter

2015-07-12

09:22 (GMT+8)





The model of the JY-8 helicopter displayed during the Second China Helicopter Exposition in 2013. (Internet photo)

The Future Helicopter Designer Competition held which began on July 8 in Beijing and is sponsored by the Aviation Industry Corporation of China will decide what kind of military helicopter the country will develop over the next five years, reports state-run Global Times.

Wu Ximing, the chief helicopter designer of AVIC; Hong Jiao, the director of AVIC's helicopter Research and Development Center; and his deputy, Xu Chaoliang are the three major competitors. Each will have to present their ideas of what China's future helicopter should look like before Aug. 20. The three best designs will be chosen and the winner will be awarded during this year's China Helicopter Exposition in Tianjin.

Various types of helicopter concepts were shown at the previous exhibition. During the second China Helicopter Exposition held back in 2013, the model of an unmanned helicopter called JY-8 was displayed to the public. Unlike most helicopters, the JY-8 does not have a tail rotor. AVIC claims that it can reach a maximum speed of 400 kilometers per hour.

AVIC also presented a tiltrotor aircraft. Called the Blue Whale, it resembles the Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey of the United States. This aircraft is developed with a take-off weight of 60 tons, and payload of 20 to 30 tons. It is estimated to have a speed of 538 kilometers an hour and a range of 3,100 kilometers.

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## XiaoYaoZi



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## Quwa

Horus said:


> This is a very attractive option for PA. If we can get a local production line of these, we can replace almost all old helos from PAA as well as add more in strength.


The chances of local production (or at least spare parts production) could go a long way if the PAF and PN also find the Z-20 to be a fit. Looking at the Sea Kings, Pumas, older Hips, older Hueys, and boosted paramilitary, SAR, and LEA air arms could help muster a Pakistani requirement of at least 150 Z-20s.

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## cirr



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## Deino

cirr said:


>




The link is sadly down !

PLEASE ... simply upload the images directly here - even if it takes some time - but they will be available even if the main-site of the link is down.

PLAESE !!

I hope You saved it ?

Deino

PS: I found it too at 粽子版z20 - Powered by Discuz!

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## cirr



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## Deino

cirr said:


>



Nice, but sadly an old image taken - or at least posted - already on 12. February this year !


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## cirr

Deino said:


> Nice, but sadly an old image taken - or at least posted - already on 12. February this year !



How about this one？

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## Deino

cirr said:


> How about this one？




Nice, ... but why always on a truck ?

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## sheik

Deino said:


> Nice, ... but why always on a truck ?



Because fans can see it on the road, but they cannot get in to the testing site.

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## Beast

Deino said:


> Nice, ... but why always on a truck ?


Then what type of transport will you expect to transfer the helo for testing? Using an IL-76 to transport it will cost lots of money. Kerosene is much more expensive than diesel.


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## Deino

sheik said:


> Because fans can see it on the road, but they cannot get in to the testing site.






Beast said:


> Then what type of transport will you expect to transfer the helo for testing? Using an IL-76 to transport it will cost lots of money. Kerosene is much more expensive than diesel.



Don't get me wrong and I perfectly understand that ... as such it's more a "regret" than a complaint.

By the way where is the test site for PLA-Army types - I thought, the Z-10 was also tested at the CFTE at first !? - and even more ... any news about additional prototypes ?

Deino


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## Deino

A new image ...

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## Deino

.....

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## Beast

Deino said:


> .....
> 
> View attachment 286790



Deino, what engine do you suggest it used, if WZ-16 turboshaft is not available?

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## Deino

Beast said:


> Deino, what engine do you suggest it used, if WZ-16 turboshaft is not available?




Honest, ... I don't know !

Huitong reports of a WZ-10 turboshaft engines (~1,800kW).


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## Beast

Deino said:


> Honest, ... I don't know !
> 
> Huitong reports of a WZ-10 turboshaft engines (~1,800kW).


WZ-10 turboshaft name is just a guessing based on rumour. It is in fact the same powerful turboshaft used on the later version of WZ-10 gunship. Aka Wz-16 turboshaft.

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## Deino

Beast said:


> WZ-10 turboshaft name is just a guessing based on rumour. It is in fact the same powerful turboshaft used on the later version of WZ-10 gunship. Aka Wz-16 turboshaft.




And again our old game: You have phantastic claims ... but not a single proof !


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## Beast

Deino said:


> And again our old game: You have phantastic claims ... but not a single proof !


Are u going to claim Z-20 used the WZ-9 turboshaft or PW turboshaft? Can I say the current powerful turboshaft used on Z-20 will also be used on WZ-10 gunship? 

Can you tell me?


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## Deino

I claim nothing - I simply don't know it - and even if nothing is known on the Z-20's engines other than the rumours about a "secret" WZ-10 the WZ-16 is simply impossible, since it is not ready in China yet and also too weak with a projected power of 1,137 kW (in comparison to the US General Electric T700-GE-701D turboshaft with 1,409 kW).

Anyway, IMO it is better to say "I don't know" than to claim anything that simply can't be !

Latest official info on the WZ-16 aka Ardidded-3C via the manufacture's HP:



> The Ardiden 3C is fitted in the Chinese AC352, jointly developed by Avic Helicopter with Airbus Helicopters. The result of a 50/50 partnership between Turbomeca and AVIC Engine, the Ardiden 3C was ground tested in France in November 2013. *The engine will be certified* by EASA under the designation Ardiden 3C, and by the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) under the designation WZ16.



Ardiden 3C | Turbomeca

So, nothing on "it is operational" - the AC352/Z-15 has not even flown yet ! - ... as such why not a WZ-17 or WZ-20 ?? Sounds even better and has surely a much higher output !

By the way, there is no helicopter named WZ-10 ... it's simply the Z-10.

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## XiaoYaoZi



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## Deino

Nice, but most likely from the same testing on 3. February 2015 ...

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## XiaoYaoZi

Deino said:


> Nice, but most likely from the same testing on 3. February 2015 ...
> 
> View attachment 287265


I know that, different photographers

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## XiaoYaoZi

@Deino according to the poster, the photos are recent.
pictures from different photographers.

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## cirr

Ruyunlong - “入云龙”。

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## Pangu

cirr said:


> Ruyunlong - “入云龙”。



Someone in PLA really loves 水浒传.


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## cirr

Pangu said:


> Someone in PLA really loves 水浒传.



We have enough names from “The Water Margin” to last perhaps a century

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## Deino

Sorry, ... but You please explain Your conversation regarding "入云龙" and "水浒传" ??


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## cirr

Deino said:


> Sorry, ... but You please explain Your conversation regarding "入云龙" and "水浒传" ??



PLA helicopter nicknames：

Z-10 “Pilihuo”
Z-19 “Heixuanfeng”
Z-20 “Ruyunlong”
。
。
。

It seems that every new helicopter coming out the AVIC stable will henceforth be given the nickname of one of the 108 outlaws in the classic ”the Water Margin“。

I wonder what nickname the new attack helicopter reportedly being developed will assume。

I am pretty sure that one of the so-called 4th generation helicopters will be known by the moniker “Shenxingtaibao” for its speed and agility。

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## Deino

Thanks a lot !

But what does the Z-20's name mean in English ?

That's what I knew so far:

Z-10 “Pilihuo” = 霹雳火 = *Fierce Thunderbolt*
Z-19 “Heixuanfeng” = 黑旋风 = *Black Whirlwind*
Z-20 “Ruyunlong” = *??*

... and does the Z-8 and Z-9 also have nicknames ?


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## cirr

Deino said:


> Thanks a lot !
> 
> But what does the Z-20's name mean in English ?
> 
> That's what I knew so far:
> 
> Z-10 “Pilihuo” = 霹雳火 = *Fierce Thunderbolt*
> Z-19 “Heixuanfeng” = 黑旋风 = *Black Whirlwind*
> Z-20 “Ruyunlong” = *??*
> 
> ... and does the Z-8 and Z-9 also have nicknames ?



Ruyunlong can be loosely translated as “Dragon In the Clouds”（as by Pearl S. Buck）。

It is the nickename of Gong Sunsheng，the 4th ranked outlaw out of 108 in the Chinese classical work “Outlaws of the Marsh”

There is a film by the name of “The Extraordinary Taoist” in English and “Ruyunlong - Gongsunsheng” in Chinese。

You get the gist？

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## Pangu

Deino said:


> Thanks a lot !
> 
> But what does the Z-20's name mean in English ?
> 
> That's what I knew so far:
> 
> Z-10 “Pilihuo” = 霹雳火 = *Fierce Thunderbolt*
> Z-19 “Heixuanfeng” = 黑旋风 = *Black Whirlwind*
> Z-20 “Ruyunlong” = *入云龙 = “Dragon In the Clouds” maybe shorten to - Cloud Dragon?*
> 
> ... and does the Z-8 and Z-9 also have nicknames ?

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## kuge

Deino said:


> Thanks a lot !
> 
> But what does the Z-20's name mean in English ?
> 
> That's what I knew so far:
> 
> Z-10 “Pilihuo” = 霹雳火 = *Fierce Thunderbolt*
> Z-19 “Heixuanfeng” = 黑旋风 = *Black Whirlwind*
> Z-20 “Ruyunlong” = *??*
> 
> ... and does the Z-8 and Z-9 also have nicknames ?


perhaps 入云龙 literally cloud-entering dragon

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## Deino

Nice one ...

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## Tiqiu

No. 637 Vs No.632 last year

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## cirr

Tiqiu said:


> No. 637 Vs No.632 last year



Likelihood of entering LRIP this year？


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## Tiqiu

cirr said:


> Likelihood of entering LRIP this year？


I think AVIC already has LRIP ability given Z20 was seemed already under the Initial Operational Test and Evaluation (IOT&E) by American standard. My reasons are: 1) not many Z20 prototype testing photos available, so its development maybe much faster than J20 given it is based on existing proven technology;2)its proposed engine is more readily available compared to J20; 3) since IOT&W is better being carried on jointly with PLA in the real harsh environment like Helongjiang and Tibet, thus normal civilians didn't have many chances to spot it;4) if take Y20 as a reference, then Z20 should have a similar timeline to enter the service.

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## aliaselin

At least one combat unit has started to induce Z-20

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## Deino

aliaselin said:


> At least one combat unit has started to induce Z-20




Any info on what unit ?


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## aliaselin

Deino said:


> Any info on what unit ?


Near snowy mountain

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## cirr

Pics taken today 15.07.2016

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## cloneman

Is there a thing called WZ-20？


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

I want to see Z-20 sea hawk version

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## Arsalan

DANGER-ZONE said:


> Zoom in your picture and see the rare landing gear.
> Z-20 has half covered landing gear and in the picture you posted, its bare.
> In short, its BLACK-HAWK.


What is a black hawk doing following that Chinese helicopter in the front? What am i missing?



Beast said:


> The most obvious tell sign is the tail rotor. Take note of it at left or right. Cnleio is correct. That is a Z-20.


It seems to be on the RIGHT side of the helicopter in below picture. So?





Its same for both Black hawk and Z20.


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## lcloo

That is not a Chinese helicopter. Chinese Z-10 has 5 rotor blades. This one has either 3 or 4 rotor blades.

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## Deino

Yes, we already had this image some time ago ... a standard PLA S-70C-2

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## cirr

YL, Xi'an

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## HAIDER

Seems Chinese carbon copy Blackhawk


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## lcloo

PLA has been operating S-70C-2 Blackhawk for more thn 30 years.

It is not surprise a new helicopter is built based on blackhawk but certainly not a carbon copy of Blackhawk, rather it is an improvement design based on blackhawk with different advance features like new rotor blades, avionics etc. If you compare in details, a lot differences will be spotted.

A design based on Blackhawk was choosen because of PLA's 30 years experience operating this type of helicopter in highland environment like in Tibet.

Other advantages are its low height is suitable for station this type of helicopter in hangars of current PLAN destroyers and frigates. Another point is its easy maintenance over Russian designed helicopters.

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## cirr



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## aziqbal

Deino said:


> Any info on what unit ?



@Deino

It's Asif from SDF I forgot my p/w and can't reset it keeps giving me error can you please reset my p/w on SDF so I can log in

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## Deino

aziqbal said:


> @Deino
> 
> It's Asif from SDF I forgot my p/w and can't reset it keeps giving me error can you please reset my p/w on SDF so I can log in




Sorry, that has to be done by the Webmaster, but I will contact him.

All the best,
Deino


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## aziqbal

Deino said:


> Sorry, that has to be done by the Webmaster, but I will contact him.
> 
> All the best,
> Deino


 
Ok ! Ta 

Every time I click reset p/w it gives me error 

Let me know if you need my email address


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## Deino

Yes I will !


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## Deino

Finally some better images ....

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## Viking 63

Good job China, just keep improving..!!

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## Dazzler

@aziqbal @Deino

please use the messaging function to discuss your issues related to other forums. 

Thanks


----------



## Deino

Z-20 video ...

http://video.weibo.com/player/1034:cc2e288cc1b8fd1cd052d2a1e199d43e/v.swf

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## grey boy 2

Some illustrations of Z-20 prototype (633)unveiled 极其罕见的Z-20 633号原型机试飞照曝光！
从照片上的若干细节可以推断，Z-20具有强大和完善的通讯，导航以及自卫能力，当然价格也绝不会便宜

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## grey boy 2

Z-20 compared to Black Hawk

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## 星海军事

grey boy 2 said:


> Z-20 compared to Black Hawk


The first image is actually a photoshopped Black Hawk

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## lonelyman

grey boy 2 said:


> Z-20 compared to Black Hawk


Looks like more chubby


----------



## Deino

Finally !!!!

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## cirr

Deino said:


> Finally !!!!
> 
> View attachment 349538
> View attachment 349539
> View attachment 349540



I am sure Z-20, together with a number of other aircrafts in the pipeline, will show up for Zhuhai Airshow 2018.

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## grey boy 2



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## nang2

grey boy 2 said:


>


the pictures were taken back in late August. so, kind of old now. wonder what its current status is.

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## Deino

nang2 said:


> the pictures were taken back in late August. so, kind of old now. wonder what its current status is.




Any info on where they were taken ??

As far as I know the last time it was Mohe and this is the original post:

http://www.weibo.com/1781548253/E5u...&mod=weibotime&type=comment#_rnd1478358643361

Deino


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## cirr

Just aired CCTV programme in which Wu Ximing, designer-in-chief of Z-10, remarked that he and his team are working on a new heavy attack helicopter: we are striving to, we are striving to.

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## cirr



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## Akasa

cirr said:


> View attachment 349708



Any chance this bird could get rockets/gun pods installed, à la AH-60 Battlehawk?

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## Zarvan

SinoSoldier said:


> Any chance this bird could get rockets/gun pods installed, à la AH-60 Battlehawk?


I also want to know same thing. If it can be happen it would be great thing to see. Otherwise China should also start working on developing an Armed Version of it.


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## Deino

Interesting comparison ...

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## grey boy 2



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## Beast

Deino said:


> Interesting comparison ...
> 
> View attachment 349784


Overall shaping and configuration looks similar to UH-60 BlackHawk. But many significant different like 5 blade rotor, a very thick tail, a flush head, Z-20 looks more roomy.


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## nang2

liquidsolid said:


> I still remember people were saying they are photoshoped when z20 were first spotted.. i knew they werent


some were indeed photoshopped. most ain't


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## cnleio

Deino said:


> Interesting comparison ...
> 
> View attachment 349784


Looks good~!


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## Akasa

cirr said:


> Just aired CCTV programme in which Wu Ximing, designer-in-chief of Z-10, remarked that he and his team are working on a new heavy attack helicopter: we are striving to, we are striving to.



Is it the same that they claim would enter service by 2020?


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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/795445218690482177

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## cnleio

Deino said:


> Interesting comparison ...
> 
> View attachment 349784


We hope next time American soldiers won't enter wrong cabin of 'Black Hawk' helo, both looks 90% same.  We also hope others won't confuse USA and PLA, although both using 90% same-looking weapons.

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## Beast

cnleio said:


> We hope next time American soldiers won't enter wrong cabin of 'Black Hawk' helo, both looks 90% same.  We also hope others won't confuse USA and PLA, although both using 90% same-looking weapons.


They will claim the Chinese one is bigger and more roomy, comfortable for them.


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## nang2

cnleio said:


> We hope next time American soldiers won't enter wrong cabin of 'Black Hawk' helo, both looks 90% same.  We also hope others won't confuse USA and PLA, although both using 90% same-looking weapons.


and uniforms, too. China forces are the biggest fan of US forces.


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## cnleio



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## cirr

Z-15(AC352) maiden flight any day now 






Maybe more importantly:

WZ16 engine is about to embark on its first flight with AC352 helicopter. Welcome to follow our WeChat public number “dongan120” for the updated status of WZ16 engine.

http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzI...e=1&scene=1&srcid=1031gY2VsnpJLXp0Qjs7Ot95#rd

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## cirr

More than one Z-20s were spotted undergoing test flights at CFTE this morning by the taker of the following image

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## grey boy 2



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## Deino

We have a dedicated Z-15 thread ... so please not here


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## Deino

Can anyone translate Please ??? ... I'm still at work.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/811111219759235072


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## nang2

Deino said:


> Can anyone translate Please ??? ... I'm still at work.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/811111219759235072


Nothing technical. Just talking about nicknames of Z-20, WZ-10 and WZ-19. Gee, I even understand some Japanese.

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## samsara

Deino said:


> Can anyone translate Please ??? ... I'm still at work.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/811111219759235072


Translated from Japanese by Bing

Z-20 photographers participated in the first flight of the AC352 found in the Harbin aircraft industry group logo, also nicknamed the Z-20 would be rumored "??? Dragon". PLA helicopter nicknames derive from water margin characters, Z-10 was nicknamed the "Blue Fire", Z-19 "Black Whirlwind".

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## grey boy 2

updates: pictures taken on 10/1/2016 test flight

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## grey boy 2

updates

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/821695923910676480

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## grey boy 2



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## HannibalBarca

grey boy 2 said:


>



I though it was fake, saying to myself " DAFUQ! a wing on it?

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## jkroo

HannibalBarca said:


> I though it was fake, saying to myself " DAFUQ! a wing on it?


Think harder and call for more brain cells pls


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## HannibalBarca

jkroo said:


> Think harder and call for more brain cells pls



if youd on't see the irony in it... then you are a lost cause

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## Place Of Space

jkroo said:


> Think harder and call for more brain cells pls



Does the utility heli include attack function? I heard it's a transport helicopter.

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## Deino

Even more I would be interested in its current status ?? We are now 3 years after the maiden flight, so there's surely some more testing (OPEVAL) to be done ... and then, if a naval version is also in the making ?

Deino


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## 帅的一匹

It's very ironic that CAC (which used to produce light to medium single engine fighter)beat SAC(good at producing heavy dual engine fighter) by developing J20 in Chinese 5th gen fighter bidding. SAC need to work harder, at least come up with some innovation in fighter jet design. They can't rely on Su27 series forever.

Now CAC J10D is incoming as rumor spread, SAC put its own life on a line.

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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> It's very ironic that CAC (which used to produce light to medium single engine fighter)beat SAC(good at producing heavy dual engine fighter) by developing J20 in Chinese 5th gen fighter bidding. SAC need to work harder, at least come up with some innovation in fighter jet design. They can't rely on Su27 series forever.
> 
> Now CAC J10D is incoming as rumor spread, SAC put its own life on a line.




Indeed ironic like You said and for me - like I just wrote for the upcoming "Eye on the East" report in the next Combat Aircraft - SAC needs to be successful with the FC-31 since otherwise it will lose its capabilities to stay in China in the fighter business. Like You said; the Flankers won't last forever and either the FC-31 will succeed or they have to heavily invest into another project.

By the way, the Z-10-thread is wrong; where should I move it to ?

Deino

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## jkroo

HannibalBarca said:


> if youd on't see the irony in it... then you are a lost cause



Lol.
It seems that I am not the very person to take the fancy causes. Good for you.



Place Of Space said:


> Does the utility heli include attack function? I heard it's a transport helicopter.


Yeah bro. The limitedd attack role depend on it's configerations.
There do have professtional attack helis, WZ-10 WZ-19 for example.

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## In4ser

Looking good. Still whenever I see it, I always think of the wasted opportunity not to design ramp door on it like the NH90 or Mi-17. That way it looks a more different than the blackhawk and provides quicker means of entrance/exit off the chopper.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

In4ser said:


> Looking good. Still whenever I see it, I always think of the wasted opportunity not to design ramp door on it like the NH90 or Mi-17. That way it looks a more different than the blackhawk and provides quicker means of entrance/exit off the chopper.



A Chinese commentator described why Blackhawk style was chosen compare to NH90 or Mi-17, because Z-20 meant to be transported within Y-8 body or Y-20 for rapid and long distance deployment same as what American did with its Blackhawks, design with ramp door mean it has to make Z-20 taller and can be difficult to squeeze inside the medium body transport.

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## Deino

Dungeness said:


> ...




Why again these images ??? These are older ones already posted in November 2016 !

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/z-20-utility-helicopter-news-discussions.285350/page-17#post-8882533


----------



## waja2000

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> A Chinese commentator described why Blackhawk style was chosen compare to NH90 or Mi-17, because Z-20 meant to be transported within Y-8 body or Y-20 for rapid and long distance deployment same as what American did with its Blackhawks, design with ramp door mean it has to make Z-20 taller and can be difficult to squeeze inside the medium body transport.



This unlikely, 
1) Z-20 can't carry by Y8 or Y9 due to Y8 or Y9 center of cargo area have extra super-structure for wings make space smaller so Z-20 can't slot in. however Y-20 is no issue carry Z-20.
2) China have S-70 so they have "sample" to make Z-20 and no mistake to re-engineering it. 
3) China Army so satisfied with S-70 performance and reliability, so no wrong continue with design. 
4) Z-20 is China Army project so follow Blackhawks is logical direction. 
4) US military asset is China military bigger fans. 
5) China no experience in NH90 and too advance technologies in NH90 is make china too hard to design and take longtime to RnD.


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## Deino

By the way ... any news recently ???


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## waja2000

Deino said:


> By the way ... any news recently ???


very low profile project, not many news reported...
i believe Z-20 in Low Rate Initial Production LRIP to make some unit for Army aviation try out and getting feedback。


----------



## 帅的一匹

waja2000 said:


> very low profile project, not many news reported...
> i believe Z-20 in Low Rate Initial Production LRIP to make some unit for Army aviation try out and getting feedback。


I like it being less fanfare.


----------



## lcloo

waja2000 said:


> This unlikely,
> 1) Z-20 can't carry by Y8 or Y9 due to Y8 or Y9 center of cargo area have extra super-structure for wings make space smaller so Z-20 can't slot in. however Y-20 is no issue carry Z-20.
> 2) China have S-70 so they have "sample" to make Z-20 and no mistake to re-engineering it.
> 3) China Army so satisfied with S-70 performance and reliability, so no wrong continue with design.
> 4) Z-20 is China Army project so follow Blackhawks is logical direction.
> 4) US military asset is China military bigger fans.
> 5) China no experience in NH90 and too advance technologies in NH90 is make china too hard to design and take longtime to RnD.



Actually, Y8 had been used to transport a PLAN Army aviation S-70 to Tibetan Highland, so Y9 should have no problem to transport Z20.

Another reason why not choosing NH90 weight class helicopter is that Z20 is more suitable for current and future (those already on drawing board) destroyers and frigates' hangars.

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## waja2000

lcloo said:


> Actually, Y8 had been used to transport a PLAN Army aviation S-70 to Tibetan Highland, so Y9 should have no problem to transport Z20.
> Another reason why not choosing NH90 weight class helicopter is that Z20 is more suitable for current and future (those already on drawing board) destroyers and frigates' hangars.



Well in image is Y-8A specific custom version made to transport S-70, it modify cargo area and some structure, also S-70 need remove rotor mask and rod first. if not wrong only 2 unit Y-8A have built in 1986 to transport PLAN Army S-70. and other Y8-Y9 version is not capable. i believe S-70/Y-8A will retire together (already 30 years +) after Z-20 enter operation and Y-20 will use to transport Z-20 nationwide.

Well Z-20 is PLAN Army project, it never consider navy operation. also currently PLAN navy frigate/Destroyer flight deck too small and Helicopter Landing Grid position make Z-20 difficult and danger to perform takeoff/landing in high sea state. low sea state should be find to landing. but eventually Z-20 need some modification/some design change to become navy version, like blockhawk to seahawk take about 5 years. for ship, like type 054/052 need add extra hull (extend flight deck space) about 3 meter at stern to provide enough safety for Z-20 operation.

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## cnleio

Z-20

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## cirr

11-11-2016

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## SOHEIL

Impressive ...

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/872495207496822784

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## grey boy 2



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## 帅的一匹

When will Z20 enter mass production, we at least need 1000 of it.

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## cirr

LH77U's Z20s

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## Deino

cirr said:


> LH77U's Z20s
> 
> View attachment 406645



Really ?? Would be a huge surprise but highly welcome.

However I would wait for better images, theses are too small and blurred to tell them Z-20 for sure.


----------



## JSCh



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## Viking 63

Good progress china !!

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## Tiqiu

Z-20 was shown on today's CCTV4

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## Brainsucker

Tiqiu said:


> Z-20 was shown on today's CCTV4
> View attachment 415172
> 
> 
> View attachment 415173



What's the different between Z-20 and their previous helo? (Z-8 and Z-9)? what's the advantage of this new toy?


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## lcloo

Brainsucker said:


> What's the different between Z-20 and their previous helo? (Z-8 and Z-9)? what's the advantage of this new toy?


Z20 is capable of flying in high altitude, so it is well suited for Tibetan plateau/ Himalaya moutain region, while Z8 and Z9 are excellent at sea level but not high altitude.

Another advantage is its size is tailor cut for hangars of navy destroyers and frigates. It is much larger than Z9 and can carry more equipment, especially anti-submatine detection gears and torpedo. Z9 is restricted by its small size and Z8 is too large to be based on DDGs (except type 055) and FFGs.

In short, Z20 is one size larger than Z9, and one size smaller than Z8.

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## 帅的一匹

Can Z20 carry AH4 Howitzer in Tibet?


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## Han Patriot

wanglaokan said:


> Can Z20 carry AH4 Howitzer in Tibet?


I think this is a black hawk class heli, don't think you can carry a 4+ tonne load. Z-18A is designed for that.

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## Tiqiu

lcloo said:


> Z20 is capable of flying in high altitude, so it is well suited for Tibetan plateau/ Himalaya moutain region, while Z8 and Z9 are excellent at sea level but not high altitude.
> 
> Another advantage is its size is tailor cut for hangars of navy destroyers and frigates. It is much larger than Z9 and can carry more equipment, especially anti-submatine detection gears and torpedo. Z9 is restricted by its small size and Z8 is too large to be based on DDGs (except type 055) and FFGs.
> 
> In short, Z20 is one size larger than Z9, and one size smaller than Z8.


In addition, like the caption in the Chinese words said '直20：用性强，一机多型，一机多能', Z20 is a very good utility helicopter which will have many variants and special modified versions for specific operations. Apart from using in the PLA Army, the improved variants can be developed for Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard or Civilian's operation needs. We can expect to see China will mass propuce this heli in great numbers.

The PLA Army logo and timing of the Chinese TV release may hint Z-20 can be readily used in a potential boarder war at high altitude area.









wanglaokan said:


> Can Z20 carry AH4 Howitzer in Tibet?


Only if China can bring down the weight of AH4 to match that of M777

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## OguzSenturk

Looks like an amazing bird. How much shp powerplant does this bird has?


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## ozranger

Tiqiu said:


> In addition, like the caption in the Chinese words said '直20：用性强，一机多型，一机多能', Z20 is a very good utility helicopter which will have many variants and special modified versions for specific operations. Apart from using in the PLA Army, the improved variants can be developed for Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard or Civilian's operation needs. We can expect to see China will mass propuce this heli in great numbers.
> 
> The PLA Army logo and timing of the Chinese TV release may hint Z-20 can be readily used in a potential boarder war at high altitude area.
> 
> View attachment 415378
> 
> 
> 
> Only if China can bring down the weight of AH4 to match that of M777
> 
> View attachment 415379
> 
> 
> View attachment 415380



AH4 is slightly lighter.



cirr said:


> LH77U's Z20s
> 
> View attachment 406645



They were those early imported S-70C.

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## cirr

7 Z-20s or Z-10s?






For the sharp-eyed only

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## lmjiao

I like black hawk very much. Still the most beautiful heli in PLA.

Why didn't US sell us production line of black hawk in 1980s.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

lmjiao said:


> I like black hawk very much. Still the most beautiful heli in PLA.
> 
> Why didn't US sell us production line of black hawk in 1980s.



Because the honeymoon was over

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


>



Ähm???? That is a Hind ....

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## lmjiao

Zhu Rong Zheng Yang said:


> Wh
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you ALWAYS tend to KOWTOW to ameriscums ??
> 
> We already have way too many SPINELESS WEAKLING Hanjian operating in Beijing.
> 
> Ask the true experts around, ... ...
> 
> FYI, Z-10 have way better and Superior Aerdynamic Design & Structure than any ameriscums black hawk cockroaches.
> 
> Have you seen Z-10 360 degree Flight Control demo ?
> Yes, it is including upside down flying.
> 
> I will post the video here as soon as I can find the link.


I don't deny that Z-20 could be better than black hawk.

It is just the shape. I like the shape of black hawk, I think it is beautiful, and that's all.

And, please compare Z-20 with black hawk, not Z-10. Z-10 is totally different type with Z-20 and black hawk.

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## Zhu Rong Zheng Yang

lmjiao said:


> I don't deny that Z-20 could be better than black hawk.
> 
> View attachment 424379



Many thanks for your kind reply.

My deep APOLOGY to you for sending a Harsh comment.
I hope you can see where my Extreme Frustrations come from.

At present, PRC as a nations is definitely a strong enough to handle the combined MALICIOUSNESS and Evil plans from the Declining Duo ( ameriscums and Japanese Neocons ).

We all know the ameriscums and Japanese Neocons are working overtime to create CHAOS all around PRC periphery in Korean Peninsula and SCS. Yet, time and time again, those Hanjian in Beijing keep selling out and willingly sabotage PRC in order to please their master ameriscums.

As an example, those *Hanjian in Beijing have been obediently followed and supported ameriscums* by allowing the economic blockade and sanctions on North Korea and IRAN to proceed.

_Let me stop now. 
Back to the Z-10 / Z-20 topic and why Z-10 design and aerodynamic and RCS are all much more superior than ameriscum Apache_.

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## cirr



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## Deino

cirr said:


> ....




Is this the revised design of the new Sino-Russian heavy-lifter ?

... and what are the names of these projects, esp. that high-speed one on top?


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## cirr

Reliable sources indicate that induction of the Z-20 has begun, with army units based in southwestern(read: Tibet) China amongst the first receiving the new copter.

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## grey boy 2

This maybe the 1st official confirmation of the operation status of Z-20? (这是官方第一次报道直20吗？来自央视网官微) 
Disclaimer: I do not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials.

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## 星海军事

No. 635 and 636 Z-20s participated in and successfully completed high-altitude flight tests on 9th October. The tests were performed at three different airports with altitudes over 1000 m, 3000 m and 4000 m located in three provinces in China.

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## cirr



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## cnleio

cirr said:


> View attachment 435413
> 
> 
> View attachment 435414


The Z-20 helos testing in Tibet mountain areas ... i heard news about PLA Z-20 mass production in 2018.

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## JSCh



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## Zarvan

*China continues to test indigenous copy of the Black Hawk helicopters*







Z-20 helicopters aircraft with registration number 635 and 636 were spotted at the Gannan Xiahe Airport
China Helicopter Research and Development Institute with industry companies continues to test a Z-20 medium lift helicopter at the high-altitude places.

The two new Z-20 helicopters aircraft with registration number 635 and 636 were spotted at the Gannan Xiahe Airport. It is an airport in Gannan Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture, Gansu Province, China. It is located above Amuquhu Town (Amqog) in Xiahe County, 72 kilometers from the county seat and 56 kilometers from Hezuo, the capital of Gannan Prefecture.

The new Z-20 helicopter is a very looks like a US-made Sikorsky S-70 which is a basic military utility helicopter of the US Army where it is known as the UH-60 Black Hawk. According to the “China’s Military Faces Futur” book, 24 S-70C helicopters were bought by China from the US in the mid 1980s.

However, Aviation Week also points out that although some aspects of the design do appear similar, such as the tail wheel arrangement, there are also marked differences. For example, the Chinese Z-20 has a five blade rotor compared with the Black Hawks’ four blades.






The Z-20 helicopter accommodates about 12-15 fully-equipped troops. It has a payload capacity of around 5 000 kg. It can carry about 1 000 kg internally and 4 000 kg externally. It can carry various loads, such as vehicles and artillery pieced on underslung externally.

This utility helicopter can be armed with machine guns and possibly other weapons, such as anti-tank and air-to-air missiles, or unguided rockets.

There is a nose-mounted FLIR/TV turret.

Nowadays the test program of new Chinese helicopters has covered high-altitude performance, auto land, navigation, cabin system tests, and handling among other aspects.


http://defence-blog.com/news/china-...enous-copy-of-the-black-hawk-helicopters.html

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## cirr

It looks like the aviation arm of the 82th Group Army is among the first to receive Z-20s.

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## Deino

cirr said:


> It looks like the aviation arm of the 82th Group Army is among the first to receive Z-20s.




Does this correspond to this event??

http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/jssd/2017-12-05/doc-ifyphxwa7935293.shtml

In summary with my limited understanding it sounds as if the Army aviation brigade assigned to the 82nd GA has transferred its Mi-17 and Mi-171 (including even more surprising the newer Mi-171E too) to other units. 

Even more and besides there's no confirmation or more information given it assumes some sort of "pioneer status" , which is interpret as if this Brigade might get the Z-20 soon. 

Deino

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## Deino

Hmmm ???? Are these really Z-20s or not again Mi-171?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/942183885596712960


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## Deino

Official Z-20 model by AVIC !?

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## clarkgap

Deino said:


> Hmmm ???? Are these really Z-20s or not again Mi-171?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/942183885596712960



Base on the shape of shadow of these helicopters, they should be Z-20.

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## cirr

One hotpot for takeaway pls 






Mount Phoenix

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## Deino

cirr said:


> One hotpot for takeaway pls
> ...
> Mount Phoenix




Mount Phoenix??? ...  Care to explain please?!


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## Akasa

Deino said:


> Mount Phoenix??? ...  Care to explain please?!



I'm guessing it's a new type of engine.

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## GiantPanda

SinoSoldier said:


> I'm guessing it's a new type of engine.



WZ-10

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## cirr

Deino said:


> Mount Phoenix??? ...  Care to explain please?!



near where the first batch of Z-20s is based ie the 77th

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## Deino

cirr said:


> near where the first batch of Z-20s is based ie the 77th




Thanks a lot ! Can't wait to see this important type finally in service - IMO it is an even more important type than the Z-8G.

PS: By the way ... "Mount Phoenix" would be in Chinese *Fenghuangshan ?*


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## kuge

Deino said:


> Thanks a lot ! Can't wait to see this important type finally in service - IMO it is an even more important type than the Z-8G.
> 
> PS: By the way ... "Mount Phoenix" would be in Chinese *Fenghuangshan ?*


yes,the name suggests it is .

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## cirr



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## Deino

cirr said:


>



Interesting ... not due to the image, but since OedoSoldier claims this as an operational one:




> PLA Army 77th Group Army 2nd Air Brigade's Z-20



Any more info available?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/964389135724167168

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

cirr said:


>



Lol seriously who toke such nice picture?

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## nang2

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Lol seriously who toke such nice picture?


Those modern cameras that do automatic focusing can often take such pictures.  I learned this when I played with my bird-watching father's fancy cameras.

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## cirr

Deino said:


> Interesting ... not due to the image, but since OedoSoldier claims this as an operational one:
> 
> 
> 
> Any more info available?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/964389135724167168

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## Deino

One more ... looks like some sort of public unveiling?

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## IblinI



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## cirr

Deino said:


> One more ... looks like some sort of public unveiling?
> 
> View attachment 455349

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## cirr

cirr said:


> View attachment 455324

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## 帅的一匹

We need thousand of this for military and civilian purpose.

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## Deino

Impressive bird and IMO one of the most underrated ones (at least in the public). I deem this even more important than several other ones ... 

But these are both prototypes ...

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## Arthur

wanglaokan said:


> View attachment 455370
> View attachment 455371
> 
> 
> We need thousand of this for military and civilian purpose.


Beautiful Bird! 
Congratz to the Chinese members! 

Ahem...open for export?

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Deino said:


> One more ... looks like some sort of public unveiling?
> 
> View attachment 455349



That's a direct consequence of arrogant American's embargo, they never learn the lesson of what Soviet's military embargo on China during 1960s. Now we can have a chini-Blackhawk without to beg for American's approval and build as many as we like . I'm really impressed that not only we're reverse engineering but make it better to fit our need, I hate when China made a 100% copy.

I'm looking forward to see chini-seahawk  and chini 101 airborne assault for Tibet theater.

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## 帅的一匹

Black Hawk's Chinese brother  that's ironic

It takes 20 years.

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## Deino

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> That's a direct consequence of arrogant American's embargo, they never learn the lesson of what Soviet's military embargo on China during 1960s. Now we can have a chini-Blackhawk without to beg for American's approval and build as many as we like . I'm really impressed that not only we're reverse engineering but make it better to fit our need, I hate when China made a 100% copy.
> 
> I'm looking forward to see chini-seahawk  and chini 101 airborne assault for Tibet theater.




Indeed and like I said before ... IMO one of the most important projects for the PLA in recent days.
I only hope they can camp up the production rate to an acceptable level and chunk out not only a few per year.

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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> Indeed and like I said before ... IMO one of the most important projects for the PLA in recent days.
> I only hope they can camp up the production rate to an acceptable level and chunk out not only a few per year.


It's not easy, we are isolated by the West.

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## IblinI

Deino said:


> Indeed and like I said before ... IMO one of the most important projects for the PLA in recent days.
> I only hope they can camp up the production rate to an acceptable level and chunk out not only a few per year.


Helicopter has always been one of the major drawback in our aviation industry, this is really a significant achievement, now we can see them in numbers and waiting for another variants.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Deino said:


> Indeed and like I said before ... IMO one of the most important projects for the PLA in recent days.
> I only hope they can camp up the production rate to an acceptable level and chunk out not only a few per year.



Z-20 is very important for China especially in Tibet Theater, IMO China want to keep Z-20 in low profile not to upset US, American certainly not like it.

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## cirr



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## Kompromat

We should get a licensed production line for Z-20. Plenty of helicopters will have to be retired and replaced in the future. This is a proven design, it would satisfy our needs.

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## nang2

cirr said:


> View attachment 457755


Can't wait to see one with LH number.

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## Deino

cirr said:


> View attachment 457755



... not sure if still a prototype; maybe already a first serial airframe since it does not look photshopped.


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## nang2

Deino said:


> ... not sure if still a prototype; maybe already a first serial airframe since it does not look photshopped.


Check the section below the round satcom antenna. Does it look right to you?


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## clarkgap

https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2462477&extra=page=1

Z-20 appeared in Chengdu. Obviously, the S-70 helicopter of the 2nd aviation bridge of 77th army group had been replaced by Z-20.

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## Figaro

China needs to churn these babies out like hot cakes ... they have to really beef up their medium helicopter transport fleet ...

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## jaybird

I hope to see Z-20 anti-submarine warfare version for PLAN soon to replace Russian K-27.

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## terranMarine

jaybird said:


> I hope to see Z-20 anti-submarine warfare version for PLAN soon to replace Russian K-27.



China's SH-60 Seahawk

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## JSCh



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## Deino

Bigger is better 








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/973115121051385857

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## waja2000

jaybird said:


> I hope to see Z-20 anti-submarine warfare version for PLAN soon to replace Russian K-27.



Since Z-20 is PLA Army project, i guest PLAN version will take more longer time to see, since modification design/structure needed to make Z-20 navy version. i guest have to wait other 3 years to see navy version.

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## cirr



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## nang2

cirr said:


>


looks like inducted version, not a prototype. but where is the LH number?


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## LKJ86



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## Cybernetics

China had successfully developed conformal helicopter antennas and electronic tests were successful. This enables improved stealth characteristics and aerodynamics. It would be used on domestic helicopter models.





http://www.cannews.com.cn/2018/0531/177060.shtml?bsh_bid=2042164388

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## Cybernetics

13 troop capacity





WZ-10 turboshaft engine (1600kW)





Variants

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## 帅的一匹

Cybernetics said:


> 13 troop capacity
> View attachment 481294
> 
> 
> WZ-10 turboshaft engine (1600kW)
> View attachment 481298
> 
> 
> Variants
> View attachment 481297
> 
> View attachment 481295
> 
> View attachment 481296


z20 can carry ATGM?


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## LKJ86

The naval variant of Z-20 is said to make its maiden flight in a few months.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Deino

Looks as if a Z-20 visited a regular PLA Arrmy Aviation base ??

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## Deino

Interesting, the STACOM dome on the spine is smaller than before...

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## cirr

Deino said:


> Looks as if a Z-20 visited a regular PLA Arrmy Aviation base ??
> 
> View attachment 493262
> View attachment 493263



You do know the so-called "tactical numbers" are painted by the army unit that receives the equipments in question?

Same with the PLAN and PLAAF.


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## Deino

cirr said:


> You do know the numbers are painted by the army unit that receives the equipments in question?
> 
> Same with the PLAN and PLAAF.



Pardon, ... so you say this IS in fact a serial or at least LRIP bird delivered to the 71st LH Brigade and it will receive its serial number "at home"??


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## cirr

Deino said:


> Pardon, ... so you say this IS in fact a serial or at least LRIP bird delivered to the 71st LH Brigade and it will receive its serial number "at home"??



Exactly.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Deino

Any news on the naval variant?

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## cirr

Deino said:


> Any news on the naval variant?



Maiden flight within months.

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## jaybird

This is a great news if it's true! Basically a naval variant of Z-20 will finally complete the modern PLAN ASW network. Anti submarine warfare was always the weak spot for the PLAN until very recently with the new design in 056 corvettes, and 054 frigates, 052C/D DDG equiped with new variable depth sonar etc. And China already got the Y-8Q ASW variant that kinda of equivalent to the U.S P-3 Orion which fills another puzzle.

But the Z-9C currently in service are just not good enough with modern anti-submarine warfare anymore with it's light weight and short legged range which handicap the PLAN's ASW strength. A naval variant of Z-20 for PLAN will fix the weak link of the ASW network and turning what was a weakness of the PLAN into strength combining with other modernizations of the navy. It will be huge leap of ASW capability when it happen.

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

At first sight I thought it is a model!

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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/1740979351/4301274541007156

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

Heading to Zhuhai?


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## cirr

Deino said:


> Any news on the naval variant?








Z-20 naval variant mockup emergency floatation systems test

http://ep.cannews.com.cn/publish/zghkb7/html/1490//node_055306.html

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 528165



Any news on operational ones??


----------



## cirr



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## Deino

cirr said:


> View attachment 528674




Sorry to ask ... is this a real photo? Or just a CG or even model

My point is, the serial number does not fit since it is the old system.


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## S10

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 510825
> 
> https://m.weibo.cn/1740979351/4301274541007156


That looks like Tibet, or at least Qinghai-Tibetan plateau. I wonder if Z-20 will replace the Blackhawks there.

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## LKJ86

S10 said:


> I wonder if Z-20 will replace the Blackhawks there.


That is sure!

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## LKJ86

The navy version of Z-20 has made its maiden flight in 2018.

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> The navy version of Z-20 has made its maiden flight in 2018.




Really???

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## cirr

Deino said:


> Really???



Positive

Adopting rotor with electrically fodable blades, optical fiber network communication and integrated RF system etc.

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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Really???


https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/7ISMpTjG3g8YuciAlouXnw

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## casual

LKJ86 said:


> https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/7ISMpTjG3g8YuciAlouXnw


those are Z-9c


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## lcloo

casual said:


> those are Z-9c


The first paragraph is regarding first flight of a new naval helicopter in 2018 though it did not stated the type of helicopter.
He (the chief designer) was given the job on the new type of helicopter in 2015.
Most of the rest of article is on past career path of its chief designer, with heavy emphasis of his participation of variants of Z9, one of which is Z9C which first flew more than 20 years ago.

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## LKJ86



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## bahadur999

Any reliable specs available?


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 547688



What's so special about this image?


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## lcloo

Deino said:


> What's so special about this image?


 
Fuel tank (yellow colour drum) fitted inside Z20. A "tradition" found in most medium helicopters used by PLA Army Aviation since a long time ago.

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## waja2000

China seems not yet design external fuel tank mount. should be can see in future.


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## lcloo

waja2000 said:


> China seems not yet design external fuel tank mount. should be can see in future.


They do have external fuel tank, though the internally fitted auxiliary fuel tank is much larger. May be they need extra fuel for doing long endurance flight test.

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## lcloo

Thanks to @waja2000, my curiosity leads to a feature on Z20 many have see it but pay no attention to it. It is the attachment point on Z20 similar to that of Blackhawks. 

By retaining the same feature implicate that attachment of external fuel tanks as well as external stores (missiles, rockets, guns etc) are included during drawing up of blue prints of Z20. 

Blackhawks used ESSS (External Store Support System) to carry fuel tank and weapons. China bought 3 sets of SSSS when they imported S-70C-2 in 1980s.






SSSS with fuel tanks attached to imported S-70C-2 in PLA Army Aviation.

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## waja2000

lcloo said:


> Thanks to @waja2000, my curiosity leads to a feature on Z20 many have see it but pay no attention to it. It is the attachment point on Z20 similar to that of Blackhawks.
> 
> By retaining the same feature implicate that attachment of external fuel tanks as well as external stores (missiles, rockets, guns etc) are included during drawing up of blue prints of Z20.



Hopefully can see it soon....


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Deino

No. 666 ... looks psed

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## Deino



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## Deino

Deino said:


> View attachment 551771



Seems to be from this video:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1112891146412339200

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## LKJ86



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## cirr



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## Deino

cirr said:


> View attachment 559088
> 
> View attachment 559089




Finally .... that post made my day.

With the numbers LH953201 & LH953205 they are assigned to the 161st Air Assault Brigade within the CTC.

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## Deino

Another one found

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Ultima Thule

Philip the Arab said:


> Nah its good gook. He is from the US and therefor should be thankful and patriotic towards the US.


@Deino please clean this off topic discussion by @Philip the Arab

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## Deino

pakistanipower said:


> @Deino please clean this off topic discussion by @Philip the Arab




Already done and even if his argument has a point, it is an old and stupid one, always brought forward to troll threads. Just look at his tactics: he post a provocation and immediately the discussions goes into wild boar modus. In the meantime he delete most of his posts and I'm sure ´he lends back in his chair and enjoys the mess.

Therefore, we shouldn't be so stupid and do them a favour by picking up each provocation.

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## Deino

Philip the Arab said:


> Lel, I wasn't even trying to troll the thread. I saw it and just posted something that I thought was true. Do me a favor if you don't have proof of me trying to troll don't accuse me. Thanks.
> 
> kirsti or whatever that koog* is named called me a sand person and deleted it and got off scotch free. What a joke.



The point is not that you mention an issue that is simply a fact, but the way you react to the replies: BY deleted the own provocative posts while at the same time getting insulting?!!?? How would you call this behaviour?

And now back to the topic.

*Guys .... take this as a kind reminder but also as a warning. No personnel insults, no name calling against anyone and if you want to discuss, then in a decent manner.

Constantly repeating old claims does not help...*

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## Deino

pakistanipower said:


> ...




*The same goes to You ! Stop with these stupid off topic replies.*


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## Ultima Thule

Deino said:


> *The same goes to You ! Stop with these stupid off topic replies.*


ok sir but you should stop him or perhaps banned @Philip the Arab from this thread @Deino


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## Philip the Arab

*Harbin Z-20*
* Medium transport helicopter*

Country of origin China
Entered service 2017 (?)
Crew 2 men
* Dimensions and weight*
Length ~ 20 m
Main rotor diameter ~ 16 m
Height ~ 5.3 m
Weight (empty) ~ 5 t
Weight (maximum take off) ~ 10 t
*Engines and performance*
Engines 2 x ?
Engine power 2 x ?
Maximum speed ~ 360 km/h
Cruising speed ~ 290 km/h
Service ceiling ~ 4 km
Range ~ 460 km
Ferry range ?
*Payload*
Maximum payload ~ 1 t internally an ~ 4 t externally
Passengers 12 ~ 15 troops
*Armament*
Cannon provision for machine guns
Missiles ?
Other ?


A new medium-lift utility helicopter with unconfirmed designation recently appeared in China. Most sources suggest that it is Harbin Z-20.* It is a copy of the UH-60 Black Hawk.* Sometimes this Chinese helicopter is *nicknamed the "Copyhawk"*. This new-generation utility helicopter has been developed in China since the late 1990s by AVIC China Helicopter Research and Development Institute and both China's helicopter manufacturing plants - Harbin Aircraft Industry Group and Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation. However the project was delayed by the development of high priority Z-10 attack helicopter. Also there were setbacks due to technical problems, such as obtaining suitable engines. The project finally gained full speed in around 2010. A prototype of the Z-20 made its first flight in 2013. In 2016 this helicopter was still being tested. In 2017 new images of this helicopter surfaced, sporting the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) roundel. This might indicate that the Z-20 is already in service. Once produced in sufficient numbers the Z-20 could replace a fleet of Russian Mi-17 helicopters in service with the PLAAF.

The Z-20 is a copy of the Sikorsky S-70 which is a basic military utility helicopter of the US Army where it is known as the UH-60 Black Hawk. The original helicopter is also in widespread use worldwide. It appeared that Sikorsky licensed production of this helicopter in China for non-military use. *It seems that China is violating this agreement.* Civilian Sikorsky S-70C-2 helicopters are used by the PLAAF since 1984. A total of 24 Sikorsky helicopters were obtained. Deliveries ceased in 1989 due to imposed sanctions against China. The Z-20 made its first flight almost 30 years since China acquired the original Sikorsky S-70 helicopters.

The Z-20 helicopter accommodates about 12-15 fully-equipped troops. It has a payload capacity of around 5 000 kg. It can carry around 1 000 kg internally and 4 000 kg externally. It can transport various loads, such as vehicles and artillery pieces underslung externally.

This utility helicopter can be armed with machine guns and possibly other weapons, such as anti-tank and air-to-air missiles, or pods with unguided rockets.

There is a nose-mounted FLIR/TV turret.

The Z-20 has some minor differences comparing with the Black Hawk. Notably it has a five-blade rotor, comparing with the Black Hawk's four-blade. It seems that the Z-20 uses rotor, engines and some other components of the Z-10 attack helicopter. It is speculated that this machine is powered by Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C-76C turboshaft engines. Also it could be powered by a WZ-10 turboshafts, developing around 2 400 shp each. Some sources report that development of new transmission system has been assisted by Eurocopter.
No other mod is this triggered
The basic utility helicopter can be modified to suit many military roles. Some sources report that marine version of this helicopter is under development.
@pakistanipower I ignored you so please stop @ ing me and were good.


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## Ultima Thule

Philip the Arab said:


> *Harbin Z-20*
> * Medium transport helicopter*
> 
> Country of origin China
> Entered service 2017 (?)
> Crew 2 men
> * Dimensions and weight*
> Length ~ 20 m
> Main rotor diameter ~ 16 m
> Height ~ 5.3 m
> Weight (empty) ~ 5 t
> Weight (maximum take off) ~ 10 t
> *Engines and performance*
> Engines 2 x ?
> Engine power 2 x ?
> Maximum speed ~ 360 km/h
> Cruising speed ~ 290 km/h
> Service ceiling ~ 4 km
> Range ~ 460 km
> Ferry range ?
> *Payload*
> Maximum payload ~ 1 t internally an ~ 4 t externally
> Passengers 12 ~ 15 troops
> *Armament*
> Cannon provision for machine guns
> Missiles ?
> Other ?
> 
> 
> A new medium-lift utility helicopter with unconfirmed designation recently appeared in China. Most sources suggest that it is Harbin Z-20.* It is a copy of the UH-60 Black Hawk.* Sometimes this Chinese helicopter is *nicknamed the "Copyhawk"*. This new-generation utility helicopter has been developed in China since the late 1990s by AVIC China Helicopter Research and Development Institute and both China's helicopter manufacturing plants - Harbin Aircraft Industry Group and Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation. However the project was delayed by the development of high priority Z-10 attack helicopter. Also there were setbacks due to technical problems, such as obtaining suitable engines. The project finally gained full speed in around 2010. A prototype of the Z-20 made its first flight in 2013. In 2016 this helicopter was still being tested. In 2017 new images of this helicopter surfaced, sporting the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) roundel. This might indicate that the Z-20 is already in service. Once produced in sufficient numbers the Z-20 could replace a fleet of Russian Mi-17 helicopters in service with the PLAAF.
> 
> The Z-20 is a copy of the Sikorsky S-70 which is a basic military utility helicopter of the US Army where it is known as the UH-60 Black Hawk. The original helicopter is also in widespread use worldwide. It appeared that Sikorsky licensed production of this helicopter in China for non-military use. *It seems that China is violating this agreement.* Civilian Sikorsky S-70C-2 helicopters are used by the PLAAF since 1984. A total of 24 Sikorsky helicopters were obtained. Deliveries ceased in 1989 due to imposed sanctions against China. The Z-20 made its first flight almost 30 years since China acquired the original Sikorsky S-70 helicopters.
> 
> The Z-20 helicopter accommodates about 12-15 fully-equipped troops. It has a payload capacity of around 5 000 kg. It can carry around 1 000 kg internally and 4 000 kg externally. It can transport various loads, such as vehicles and artillery pieces underslung externally.
> 
> This utility helicopter can be armed with machine guns and possibly other weapons, such as anti-tank and air-to-air missiles, or pods with unguided rockets.
> 
> There is a nose-mounted FLIR/TV turret.
> 
> The Z-20 has some minor differences comparing with the Black Hawk. Notably it has a five-blade rotor, comparing with the Black Hawk's four-blade. It seems that the Z-20 uses rotor, engines and some other components of the Z-10 attack helicopter. It is speculated that this machine is powered by Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C-76C turboshaft engines. Also it could be powered by a WZ-10 turboshafts, developing around 2 400 shp each. Some sources report that development of new transmission system has been assisted by Eurocopter.
> No other mod is this triggered
> The basic utility helicopter can be modified to suit many military roles. Some sources report that marine version of this helicopter is under development.


not totally reversed engineered, there is lots of design difference between Z-20 and black hawk @Philip the Arab


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

@Philip the Arab , tell us how you like our copyhawk , isn't it magnificent?American had regret not to set a copyright clause or regret to set embargo on spare parts on the blackhawk that we bought, that is the price for been arrogance and abuse blackhawk for using it as political tool.

China not only copy but improve it for PLA's: with this copyhawk, China can create different platform to PLA army and Navy with no restriction in quantity, diversity and quality since we have our own blueprint while India and Japan still have to buy it from US and ask US for permission for any upgrade.

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## 055_destroyer

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> @Philip the Arab , tell us how you like our copyhawk , isn't it magnificent?American had regret not to set a copyright clause or regret to set embargo on spare parts on the blackhawk that we bought, that is the price for been arrogance and abuse blackhawk for using it as political tool.
> 
> China not only copy but improve it for PLA's: with this copyhawk, China can create different platform to PLA army and Navy with no restriction in quantity, diversity and quality since we have our own blueprint while India and Japan still have to buy it from US and ask US for permission for any upgrade.


There is a reason why Z-20 resemble Blackhawk so much. Z-20 need to fit in new medium size transport plane. Everybody knows helo cant travel long distance like airplane. It need a transport plane if it wants cross continent for fast deploy.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

055_destroyer said:


> There is a reason why Z-20 resemble Blackhawk so much. Z-20 need to fit in new medium size transport plane. Everybody knows helo cant travel long distance like airplane. It need a transport plane if it wants cross continent for fast deploy.



Indeed Blackhawk is transportable on Medium plane such as Y-8 or Hercule while Z-8 can't, which add tacticle flexibility for PLA in term of deployment and China need this 10 tons class Helico for anti-submerine as well. But it is undeniable fact that Chinese engineers had inspired Blackhawk and borrow the airframe to make Z-20, but say that it's a copy is pure ignorance, copy a 30 year's away technology without any value add or value engineering to it is pretty stupid. When American or Westerner couldn't express their sentiment to see this beautiful Z-20, the best way is to label it as copy to vent their frustration, resentment and anger.

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## LKJ86

http://www.dser.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1121265&extra=page=1&mobile=2

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## lcloo

A Z20 mock up with folded rotor blades has been sighted on a type 055 destroyer under out-fitting, which indicate a naval variant of Z20 is ready to be stationed on type 055, type 052DG and type 071 LPD.

Interesting remark on Huitong's Chinese Military Aviation, described it as Z20F?, a ASW version that first flew in late 2018.

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## JSCh

*China's new ship-borne chopper to raise PLA’s ability to new level: military specialists*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2019/7/2 16:10:53



Chinese soldiers train on the Binzhou frigate, the commanding ship of China's 29th naval escort fleet for anti-piracy missions in the Gulf of Aden and Somali waters. The training included shooting practice and abseiling from a helicopter. File photo: China News Service

China's latest vessel-borne helicopter will take the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy's combat capability to a new level, Chinese military experts said on Tuesday after a full-sized model of the navy variant of the Z-20 utility helicopter was allegedly spotted testing on a warship for the first time.

Citing a photo that surfaced on Chinese social media, Weapon magazine reported, via its social media account, on Saturday that the Z-20 navy variant was on board a Chinese destroyer and its characteristic appearance made it clearly identifiable.

Generally the same helicopter as the army version, the vessel-based navy version can additionally minimize its size in the hangar through design features like foldable rotor blades, judging from the photo. It might also feature extra anti-corrosion capabilities and stronger landing gear, said Weapon magazine affiliated with the state-owned China North Industries Group Corporation, a major manufacturer of Chinese military equipment and weapons.

Having a full-sized model on board for testing means the PLA is studying the practical adaptability of the Z-20 on ships, testing for things such as how the helicopter would enter and exit the hanger and how much space it would actually take up, Li Jie, a Beijing-based naval expert, told the Global Times on Tuesday.

Compared to other in-service shipboard helicopters, the Z-20 has a good takeoff weight (while remaining not oversized on ships) and can better adapt to situations at seas, Li said.

Often compared to the US' UH-60 Black Hawk, the Z-20 is a 10 ton-class medium-lift utility helicopter that can adapt to different terrain and weather, military experts told the Global Times previously.

It would have the capabilities to fly on destroyers, amphibious landing docks, amphibious assault ships and aircraft carriers, undertaking a wide range of tasks including anti-submarine warfare, reconnaissance missions, transportation as well as search and rescue on the high seas, Li said, noting that the helicopter will play an important role in the multidimensional and digitalized battlefield.

The Z-20 will help the Navy reach a higher level of effectiveness, Li noted.

The helicopter is seen by many military enthusiasts as a member of China's most advanced "20 series" aircraft, with the others being the J-20 stealth fighter jet, the Y-20 large transport plane and the H-20 strategic bomber.

The army version of the Z-20 has reportedly entered trial service, but the alleged commissioning has not yet been officially confirmed.

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## JSCh

From weibo, said to be rehearsing for parade, including Z-20.




















​

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## Deino

Any idea?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1153209190162280448

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## Deino

Its only a Z-9... sorry guys.

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## bahadur999



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## LKJ86



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## JSCh

*Latest military chopper expected to debut at National Day parade: report*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2019/8/20 17:29:05



A domestically made Z-20 medium-lift utility helicopter bearing an army serial number takes flight at an unknown location and time. Photo: screenshot from China Central Television

An echelon of China's domestically developed Z-20 helicopters was spotted on Monday in a video that was purported in the media to be a rehearsal for the upcoming National Day parade, leading analysts to believe that the country's newest chopper could make its public debut at the October 1 event.

Multiple Z-20 helicopters, and other military choppers, flew in formation near southeast Beijing's Yizhuang area, as seen in a video the Aerospace Knowledge magazine posted on its Sina Weibo account on Monday.

The Z-20 echelon seems to be preparing for the military parade that will celebrate the 70th birthday of the People's Republic of China, the Aerospace Knowledge magazine said.

"The Z-20 has been in trials for some time now, so it will not surprise me if it makes its public debut in the parade on October 1," a military expert who asked not to be named told the Global Times on Tuesday. 

The Z-20 is a 10 ton-class medium-lift utility helicopter often compared to the US' UH-60 Black Hawk. It can have different versions to adapt to different terrain and weather, and is expected to be used by both the army and navy, analysts said, noting it could operate on plateaus and naval vessels.

As a utility helicopter it can be used in many types of missions including personnel and cargo transport, search and rescue, reconnaissance and anti-submarine, the expert said.

China's Ministry of National Defense confirmed the Z-20's development in 2013, when media reported a Z-20 made a trial flight at that time.

There have been multiple sightings of the helicopter since then, including one in May featuring a Z-20 painted with an army serial number, an indication of commissioning into the military, Weihutang, a column on military affairs affiliated with China Central Television, reported, citing foreign reports.

China has yet to officially announce the commissioning of the helicopter, but military enthusiasts are eagerly waiting to see it as they consider the Z-20 a member of China's most advanced "20 series" aircraft, with the others being the J-20 stealth fighter jet, the Y-20 large transport plane and the H-20 strategic bomber.

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## lcloo

Z20H prototype, please show up.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 577245







Via @佛系军迷京城老九 from Weibo

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## Deino

via Weimeng!

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## LKJ86

Via @佛系军迷京城老九 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @CFCA三北大猫 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @前站起飞 from Weibo

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1176170771867213827

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## LKJ86

Via @胡子说海 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @T汪汪T from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via www.js7tv.cn and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## Pakhtoon yum

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 582097
> View attachment 582098
> View attachment 582099
> View attachment 582100
> View attachment 582101
> View attachment 582102
> View attachment 582103
> 
> Via www.js7tv.cn and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo


That's one beautiful bird


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## LKJ86

Via @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @彩虹熊_白玮 from Weibo

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## aziqbal

there is a old saying, apple never falls far from the tree 

copy cant be better than original 

China should not have so blatantly copied the Blackhawk


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## ZeEa5KPul

aziqbal said:


> copy cant be better than original


That's right. That's why there's no rocket ever invented that's better than the V2.

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## phancong

aziqbal said:


> there is a old saying, apple never falls far from the tree
> 
> copy cant be better than original
> 
> China should not have so blatantly copied the Blackhawk


Why shouldn't China build the own Blackhawks copy or not? Now they have copyhawk to ferry their troop to fight against the US soldiers in case of war.


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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## Kompromat

Pakistan should get a production license for these.

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## waja2000

phancong said:


> Why shouldn't China build the own Blackhawks copy or not? Now they have copyhawk to ferry their troop to fight against the US soldiers in case of war.



Because PLA super impressive with S-70 (blackhawks export version) reliability and performance in high mountain which sell to china in before 1986. but than PLA can't get S-70 anymore and S-70 nearly retirement after 30 years service, so have to design new helicopter replace it, since PLA so adore with S-70 (or US aircraft generally ) plus they so familiar with with S-70 so no surprising they design Z-20 nearly identical to S-70, i believe can save alot time and speed up in RnD compare to brand new design.


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## Deino

ZeEa5KPul said:


> That's right. That's why there's no rocket ever invented that's better than the V2.




Or the Type 002 carrier cannot be better than the old Kuznetsov.

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## phancong

waja2000 said:


> Because PLA super impressive with S-70 (blackhawks export version) reliability and performance in high mountain which sell to china in before 1986. but than PLA can't get S-70 anymore and S-70 nearly retirement after 30 years service, so have to design new helicopter replace it, since PLA so adore with S-70 (or US aircraft generally ) plus they so familiar with with S-70 so no surprising they design Z-20 nearly identical to S-70, i believe can save alot time and speed up in RnD compare to brand new design.


I fully understand the reason behind China build the repica of Blackhawk with their own version. US cut off the Blackhawk contract to China when US military sanction China, China build their own version of Blackhawk served the notice to US about military sanction had no impact on China Military modernization, proved China can obtain the weapons through the purchase from other country or by any means of possible with China own weapons development.


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## vi-va

waja2000 said:


> Because PLA super impressive with S-70 (blackhawks export version) reliability and performance in high mountain which sell to china in before 1986. but than PLA can't get S-70 anymore and S-70 nearly retirement after 30 years service, so have to design new helicopter replace it, since PLA so adore with S-70 (or US aircraft generally ) plus they so familiar with with S-70 so no surprising they design Z-20 nearly identical to S-70, i believe can save alot time and speed up in RnD compare to brand new design.


China is familiar with other helos as well. But we have similar requirement, transport by C-130/Y-9

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## 055_destroyer

aziqbal said:


> there is a old saying, apple never falls far from the tree
> 
> copy cant be better than original
> 
> China should not have so blatantly copied the Blackhawk


That is wrong saying... F-7PG is far better in terms of electronic avionic , agility, range than original Mig-21 PF.

China black hawk house a far larger powerful engine seen by the slight higher height. 5 rotor blade vs 4 rotor of US blackhawk. I would say China one is far better than US one.

Or are you going to say US Minuteman III is far better than DF-41? The era days of every military hardware made by US are better than China is over. Nowadays, I can easily talk about 10 military hardwares made by China which far exceed US equivalent. To think China can't made a better product than a S-70 chopper produced 20 years ago is bad statement.

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## LKJ86

Via @wanquanfoto from Weibo

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## JSCh

*Latest Chinese army chopper uses fly-by-wire control system*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2019/10/7 18:13:39



Z-20 utility helicopters prepare to take off from an undisclosed location. Photo: China Central Television screenshot

The Chinese tactical helicopter that debuted at the National Day parade on October 1 is the first in China to use fly-by-wire controls that make the aircraft easier and safer to fly in complicated battlefield situations, military experts said on Monday.

"The handling of the Z-20 is more sensitive, as it is China's first domestically made helicopter to use a fly-by-wire control system," Z-20 pilot Song Xinning told China Central Television (CCTV) on Sunday.

Unlike traditional flight control systems that use a series of mechanical linkages to directly pass on the pilot's control inputs to the aircraft, fly-by-wire processes the inputs through a computer which tells the aircraft to perform what is required, an anonymous military expert told the Global Times on Monday.

Thanks to the computer that can do extra calculations, the pilot can maneuver the aircraft more easily and stably, the expert said, noting the technology is common on fixed wing aircraft, but less common with helicopters due to complexity and cost.

The computer is also lighter than mechanical linkages, meaning the aircraft can use the spare weight capacity for other purposes, the expert said. Song did not mention if a traditional flight control system is still installed as a backup on the Z-20.

The Black Hawk, a US utility helicopter with which the Z-20 is often compared, also saw an experimental fly-by-wire retrofit in June, which enabled the chopper to become optionally piloted, according to a statement released in June on the website of Lockheed Martin, parent company of Black Hawk maker Sikorsky.

Zhang Qiqi, another Z-20 pilot, told CCTV that as pilots of the army air assault force they need to not only fly helicopters, but also play the role of a commander, coordinating air and ground forces, giving proper guidance and making them cooperate.

The easy-control fly-by-wire factor enables pilots to better take that role, the anonymous expert said.

The Z-20 is a medium-lift utility helicopter that can adapt to different terrains and weather and can be used in missions including personnel and cargo transport, search and rescue, reconnaissance and anti-submarine operations, experts said.

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## 055_destroyer

JSCh said:


> *Latest Chinese army chopper uses fly-by-wire control system*
> By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2019/10/7 18:13:39
> 
> 
> 
> Z-20 utility helicopters prepare to take off from an undisclosed location. Photo: China Central Television screenshot
> 
> The Chinese tactical helicopter that debuted at the National Day parade on October 1 is the first in China to use fly-by-wire controls that make the aircraft easier and safer to fly in complicated battlefield situations, military experts said on Monday.
> 
> "The handling of the Z-20 is more sensitive, as it is China's first domestically made helicopter to use a fly-by-wire control system," Z-20 pilot Song Xinning told China Central Television (CCTV) on Sunday.
> 
> Unlike traditional flight control systems that use a series of mechanical linkages to directly pass on the pilot's control inputs to the aircraft, fly-by-wire processes the inputs through a computer which tells the aircraft to perform what is required, an anonymous military expert told the Global Times on Monday.
> 
> Thanks to the computer that can do extra calculations, the pilot can maneuver the aircraft more easily and stably, the expert said, noting the technology is common on fixed wing aircraft, but less common with helicopters due to complexity and cost.
> 
> The computer is also lighter than mechanical linkages, meaning the aircraft can use the spare weight capacity for other purposes, the expert said. Song did not mention if a traditional flight control system is still installed as a backup on the Z-20.
> 
> The Black Hawk, a US utility helicopter with which the Z-20 is often compared, also saw an experimental fly-by-wire retrofit in June, which enabled the chopper to become optionally piloted, according to a statement released in June on the website of Lockheed Martin, parent company of Black Hawk maker Sikorsky.
> 
> Zhang Qiqi, another Z-20 pilot, told CCTV that as pilots of the army air assault force they need to not only fly helicopters, but also play the role of a commander, coordinating air and ground forces, giving proper guidance and making them cooperate.
> 
> The easy-control fly-by-wire factor enables pilots to better take that role, the anonymous expert said.
> 
> The Z-20 is a medium-lift utility helicopter that can adapt to different terrains and weather and can be used in missions including personnel and cargo transport, search and rescue, reconnaissance and anti-submarine operations, experts said.



Z-20 better than S-70 Blackhawk. US is only in testing phase for Digital FBW, while Z-20 already equipped with it for operation.

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## LKJ86

Via @DS谁明浪子心 from Weibo





Via @TEDAER from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 582849
> 
> Via @DS谁明浪子心 from Weibo
> 
> View attachment 582853
> 
> Via @TEDAER from Weibo




Great  
So it seems as if the PLA Army Aviation aerial demonstration team has also received some Z-20s.

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## LKJ86

Via @天际穿梭者 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @TEDAER from Weibo








Via @耿直的鲁斯兰 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @TEDAER from Weibo

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## S10

aziqbal said:


> there is a old saying, apple never falls far from the tree
> 
> copy cant be better than original
> 
> China should not have so blatantly copied the Blackhawk


Different engine, different avionics, different dimensions, different rotor blades, different materials so it's a copy.

Makes sense.

Copy can't be better than original. F-7PG can't be better than original Mig-21? J-11C can't be better than Su-27SK? H-6N can't be better than Tu-16?

You're on a row with that post.

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## serenity

He is simple minded. Cannot understand that there are many layers to things in life and the world. Copy for some things are shit like fake rolex compared to real but taking one basic design and developing better version and improving it is like Su-27 to Su-35 except the step taken by a Chinese team. Also can copy directly like Mig-21 to J-7 then slowly upgrade. All different. All different strength and weakness. To say a copy doesn't mean much. Is it a fake rolex or difference between V2 rocket and Iskander? If copy always worse is a rule then Type 56 is worse than AK-47 but even American reviewers almost always say Type 56 even cheap versions by other smaller factories is better than Russian AK and Romanian and Arabic copies.


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## Dungeness

aziqbal said:


> there is a old saying, apple never falls far from the tree
> 
> copy cant be better than original
> 
> China should not have so blatantly copied the Blackhawk




This is from a supposedly elite "Think Tank" member from the country we cherished as our "Iron Brother"?

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## LKJ86

Via @彩虹熊_白玮 from Weibo

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## OBLiTeRate TrumpTurd

Dungeness said:


> This is from a supposedly elite "Think Tank" member from the country we cherished as our "Iron Brother"?



STOP generalizing. ~ 1 person action at 1 particular time 
... does not represent the whole nation. 

STOP being shallow minded Chinese who are ALWAYS too COWARD and too GUTLESS 
to fight the Global #1 Criminal nation Undisputed Cockroaches Murica.

All smart and truly Patriotic Chinese understand that ... 
RUSSIA, CUBA, IRAN, SERBIA, BELARUS, VENEZUELA, NORTH KOREA, and PAKISTAN 
are always ( IRON Brothers & Sisters ) to PRC.


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## LKJ86

Via @FYJS-神华 from Weibo
































Via mil.huanqiu.com

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## JSCh

*China Helicopter Expo 2019 set to take off in Tianjin*
chinadaily.com.cn | Updated: 2019-10-09 13:23

Z-20 medium-lift utility helicopters arrive at the apron of China Helicopter Expo 2019 at China Tianjin Port Free Trade Zone on Oct 8, 2019. The expo will run from Oct 10 to 13. [Photo/VCG]

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## 帅的一匹

we need thousands of this beast

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## LKJ86

Via @eaglephoto from Weibo











Via @DS北风 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @航空工业昌飞 from Weixin

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## 帅的一匹

I don't know how Americans think of Z20, its just irony.

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## Rashid Mahmood

Pakistan should get this helo and start it's licenced production in country for our armed forces.

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## JSCh

*China's Z-20 chopper features powerful homemade engine: maker*
By Liu Xuanzun and Liu Yang in Tianjin Source:Globaltimes.cn Published: 2019/10/10 2:09:38



A Z-20 utility helicopter is on display prior to the 5th China Helicopter Exposition in Tianjin on October 9, 2019. Photo: Xu Luming/GT

China's latest commissioned and fully domestic manufactured military helicopter, the Z-20, is equipped with a homemade engine powerful enough for it to fly in low-oxygen plateaus, and features world-leading innovative technology, said the chopper's makers on Wednesday.

The Z-20 made its public debut at the National Day parade on October 1. At the 2019 China Helicopter Development Forum in Tianjin on Wednesday, Wang Xibao, chief engineer at Harbin Aircraft Industry Group under the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), told the Global Times that it is "of an advanced level in the 21st century."

"It uses many technologies that should be considered advanced in the world, including the active vibration control, fly-by-wire, low-noise design for rotor and high performance aerodynamic design of the rotor," Wang said.

Li Linhua, chief technology expert at China Helicopter Research and Development Institute of the AVIC, said that during its development, many technological innovations were applied. Li also noted that only a few countries have helicopters with advanced fly-by-wire technology.

The Z-20 was entirely made in China, said Chen Guang, vice general manager of AVICOPTER, the helicopter branch of the AVIC, to the Global Times.

As China's latest utility helicopter, one area the Z-20 will operate in is plateaus, Chen said, noting that despite the lack of oxygen in high-altitude areas, the homemade engine is powerful enough thanks to technological breakthroughs.

The Z-20 will contribute to China's future helicopter development as new models can learn from its advanced technologies, Chen said.

The Z-20 is expected to make its first exhibition appearance at the 5th China Helicopter Exposition in Tianjin, which runs from Thursday to Sunday.

In addition to flight performances by the Fenglei aerobatic team of the People's Liberation Army, it will put on a static display at the event.

The craftsmanship of the helicopter's fuselage is excellent, as the surface seems smooth even at joint points. The large cockpit windows take up over half of the space of the aircraft's nose, with two extra windows on the floors of the cockpit, giving pilots a very wide view, the Global Times reporters observed on Wednesday after closely watched the helicopter.

Traditional, complicated dashboards are not found in the cockpit. Instead, the control panels use multifunctional screens. The helicopters' interior is wide and can store more equipment.

The Z-20 is a medium-lift utility helicopter that can adapt to different terrains and weather and can be used on missions including personnel and cargo transport, search and rescue, reconnaissance and anti-submarine operations, experts said.

_Xu Luming contributed to this story_

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## Sine Nomine

Rashid Mahmood said:


> Pakistan should get this helo and start it's licenced production in country for our armed forces.


It has a version for naval ops,we can go on path you said and replace almost every medium lift with this beast.


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## LKJ86

Via @goneless from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @航空工业 from Weibo

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## Deino

Allegedly this is the first clear image of the Z-20F naval variant, which so far is only known from some mock-ups and which is said to have flown for the first time in late 2018.

(Image courtesy of tsqzsl)

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## vi-va

Deino said:


> Allegedly this is the first clear image of the Z-20F naval variant, which so far is only known from some mock-ups and which is said to have flown for the first time in late 2018.
> 
> (Image courtesy of tsqzsl)
> 
> View attachment 583300
> View attachment 583301


Yes. The rear wheel moved similar location like HH-60H


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## 帅的一匹

你别说我们中国人还真是实用主义，好的就拿来，拷贝不走样。

以后抗震救灾妈妈再也不用担心我开Mi17了

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## LKJ86

Via @Ds走近哈佛 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via CJDBY

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## 帅的一匹

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 583445
> 
> Via CJDBY


Yankees will get pissed off

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## Deino

For comparison even if not the exact angle .....

(the SH-60B image is via Keith Pisani)







I'm however surprised in that unique cut-out on the tail - something the Army variant does not have - and the number: Is this just a 3-digit CFTE number or already a 5-digit number?

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## 帅的一匹

USA Media give a new name to Z20，'copy hawk.'

it's really funny

山寨鹰lol

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## LKJ86

Via @弦号112 from Weibo

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## Tipu7



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## JSCh



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## 帅的一匹

I like the name copy hawk, cause it's just sarcastic.


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## JSCh




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## Zulfiqar

Rashid Mahmood said:


> Pakistan should get this helo and start it's licenced production in country for our armed forces.



In naval role with adequate equipment it will perfectly complement our new Chinese frigates.

Also for good use as CSAR with PAF and for spec ops support and air assault.

If all three services plus FC and ANF combine their orders then we can look for a 150 plus orders easily which can easily be spread over 7-10 years similar to JF-17s.

Mirage and F-7 rebuild factories will gradually have reduced usage and we can use the manpower and space for JF-17 rebuild and for production of T 129 and this Helo.

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## Deino

JSCh said:


>



And as it seems these are KD-10 missiles under the stub-wings??

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## LKJ86

Via @前站起飞 from Weibo

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## lcloo

Z20 naval version from East Pendulum






From CJDBY

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## Ahmet Pasha

From chinese iphones to chinese Blackhawks


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## lcloo

Differences between army and navy versions.

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## Pakhtoon yum

Horus said:


> Pakistan should get a production license for these.


They should switch from the Russian ones to these and produce them for all forces, from military to civilian. This is a proven and tested design.



Zulfiqar said:


> In naval role with adequate equipment it will perfectly complement our new Chinese frigates.
> 
> Also for good use as CSAR with PAF and for spec ops support and air assault.
> 
> If all three services plus FC and ANF combine their orders then we can look for a 150 plus orders easily which can easily be spread over 7-10 years similar to JF-17s.
> 
> Mirage and F-7 rebuild factories will gradually have reduced usage and we can use the manpower and space for JF-17 rebuild and for production of T 129 and this Helo.


The police, fire, medic, PIA, counter terrorism, and cost guard will all benefit from these.


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## JSCh

For comparison.


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @skerryer from Weibo

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## The Ronin

*Z-20 called one of world's best
*
The Z-20, China's first domestically developed medium-lift utility helicopter — declassified just 10 days ago — is one of the best of its kind in the world, according to project insiders at Aviation Industry Corp of China.

Chen Guang, vice-general manager of Avicopter, the AVIC helicopter branch in charge of the Z-20 project, said in Tianjin on Thursday that the Z-20 is a twin-engine, multipurpose helicopter designed and built exclusively by AVIC, adding that the aircraft is able to operate in many areas, and can fly in difficult weather conditions.

Powered by two advanced Chinese turboshaft engines, he said, the helicopter is mainly tasked with transportation missions but can be conveniently refitted for other operations.

Chen said every part of the Z-20 was developed and made in China.

Li Linhua, chief technology expert at AVIC's China Helicopter Research and Development Institute, said the Z-20 features a streamlined aerodynamic structure, new anti-icing technology and a cutting-edge control system.

"One of the helicopter's technological advantages is its fly-by-wire flight control system," Li said. "The adoption of such technology substantially reduces the Z-20's overall weight and makes it easier to fly."

The Z-20 was unveiled during the grand parade in Beijing on Oct 1 celebrating the 70th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China. Before the parade, pictures of the aircraft had been widely circulated on Chinese weapons websites, but AVIC had never officially confirmed its existence.

It was displayed on the ground and in the air at the fifth China Helicopter Exposition, which opened in Tianjin on Thursday. The aviation expo, co-hosted by the Tianjin municipal government, the People's Liberation Army Ground Force and AVIC, has attracted participation from 415 enterprises from 18 nations and regions, according to the organizing committee.

The expo is the first opportunity for the public to get a close look at the Z-20.

Fang Bing, a retired PLA National Defense University researcher, said the Z-20 will be one of the key elements in the PLA Ground Force's transformation because it is badly needed for carrying out high-mobility air and land operations.

"Air-enabled deployment of troops and weapons relies on utility helicopters such as the Z-20," Fang said.

"Besides conventional functions, they can also be equipped with weapons to conduct combat tasks. In addition to the Ground Force, the Z-20 will be useful in the PLA Air Force and PLA Navy as it is suitable for many tasks like search and rescue, special warfare and anti-submarine operations. It will be deployed in the military in large scale," Fang added.

Cui Yiliang, editor-in-chief of naval equipment magazine Modern Ships, said the Z-20 will significantly improve the combat capability of the PLA Navy's surface fleets.

"It is capable of fulfilling a wide range of missions that other Chinese helicopters have difficulty executing, including anti-submarine and anti-ship combat, signal relay for ship-launched missiles and special assaults," Cui said.

http://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/2...BAxebeaebsMU-3W0dnqlnAKFFcNK80zEHxC_wpiIUKf38


*CHINA RELEASES NEW DETAILS ON THE AVIC Z-20 HELICOPTER*

China’s state-owned newspaper, the Global Times, published a number of details about the Z-20, which is the People’s Liberation Army’s (PLA) new transport helicopter, following the Z-20’s official public debut at China’s National Day parade on 01 October 2019.

The Z-20 is a twin-engine medium-lift helicopter with a maximum take-off weight (MTOW) similar to that of the S-70i Black Hawk helicopter, i.e., in the 9-11-ton range.

In an interview with the Global Times, Wang Xibao, the chief engineer at Harbin Aircraft Industry Group – i.e., a subsidiary under the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) – stated that the Z-20 “uses many technologies that should be considered advanced in the world.”

These include, among others, “active vibration control, fly-by-wire, low-noise design for rotor and high-performance aerodynamic design of the rotor.”

To AVIC’s credit, fly-by-wire is not a common flight control system for helicopters. In fact, Sikorsky is only experimenting fly-by-wire on the UH-60A at this time.

Moreover, the Z-20 is operable in a diverse range of environments, include high-altitude areas with a lack of oxygen. The helicopter’s designers credit this capability to the Z-20’s indigenous turboshaft engines.

Finally, the Z-20 employs a glass cockpit consisting of multi-function displays (MFD).

In addition to a tactical troop transport and land forces utility, Chinese defence analysts have noted that work may be underway towards a naval variant of the Z-20.

*Notes & Comments*

Given that the Z-20 is likely in the weight-class of the S-70, NH-90 and AW149, it is likely that it is capable of transporting 14-20 troops. It might have an external payload (via slung) of roughly 3,000 kg to 4,000 kg.

It will be interesting to see how the Z-20 fares in the export market. AVIC would offer prospective buyers a modern platform with analogous technologies and capabilities to Western platforms, such as the S-70i and NH-90, but potentially at a more competitive cost. With a potential scope of replacing hundreds of Z-9 and Mi-8/17 helicopters across each of the PLA’s service arms, the Z-20 will draw on economies-of-scale.

In addition, the introduction of the Z-20 – and certification of its engine – could also give China the basis of a next-generation heavy attack helicopter.

https://quwa.org/2019/10/14/china-r...CnCQLwxtd4OrSI_G9SXGQ71fGhSTEyyTosIFN2LIGd68U

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## Zulfiqar

Pakhtoon yum said:


> They should switch from the Russian ones to these and produce them for all forces, from military to civilian. This is a proven and tested design.
> 
> 
> The police, fire, medic, PIA, counter terrorism, and cost guard will all benefit from these.



Coast guard, CTDs Yes. However, considering our budget the priority would be the three armed forces and then FC.

Overall a good supplement/replacement for some of our Bell 412s and Older Pumas.

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## LKJ86

Via @冰凉2010 from Weibo

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## 帅的一匹

帅的一匹


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## LKJ86

CG




Via @高山CG from Weibo

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## 帅的一匹

nice


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## LKJ86

CG













Via @高山CG from Weibo

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## LKJ86

CG










Via @高山CG from Weibo

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## The Ronin



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## LKJ86

Via @ccckkknnn2012 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via wangcan91 and @angadow from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 588961
> 
> Via wangcan91 and @angadow from Weibo



Naval? ... with a serial number??


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## Deino

Deino said:


> Naval? ... with a serial number??



Looks like an ASW variant?

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/timeline


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## lcloo

Deino said:


> Looks like an ASW variant?
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/i/timeline


I think you are right.

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## Deino

Two more - indeed low quality - images of the newly spotted alleged real Z-20F ASW helicopter variant. 

(Images via 人民海军向前进 at lt.cjdby.net)

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1206168914482401283

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @航空工业直升机所 from Weixin

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## Deino

A white or light grey Z-20?? I'm surprised even more since there seem to be a serial number on the tail!?


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## LKJ86

Via @秋秋Q30 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 598936
> 
> Via @沉默的山羊 from Weibo




Again the while or grey one?! Any idea, why this colour?


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## lcloo

Deino said:


> Again the while or grey one?! Any idea, why this colour?


White coating is primer paint for freshly minted military helocopters, Just like the yellow primer paint of fixed wing aircraft. The blue paint on the nose is a bit strange though.

An old photo from year 2003

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## LKJ86

Via @航空工业 from Weibo


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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 599441
> 
> Via @航空工业 from Weibo




Would you please be so kind and tell what's written under that image?

Thanks in advance


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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Would you please be so kind and tell what's written under that image?
> 
> Thanks in advance


It is just corporate slogan, and has nothing to do with Z-20.

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## Deino

Thanks


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## Deino

New Happy Chinese New Year. 

(Image via by78/SDF)

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## LKJ86

Via 央视频 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## JohnWick

We need that military hardware....


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## LKJ86

Via @万全 from Weibo

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## kungfugymnast

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 618131
> 
> Via @万全 from Weibo



You know, when I went on board USS Theodore Roosevelt and spoken to some of the carrier crew there, most of them don't know much about aircraft and chopper. With the Z20 resemblance of Blackhawk/Seahawk, if a group of boarding team of Z20 carrying troops ready to seize US carrier when war broke out, the crew might think it's friendly chopper.


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## LKJ86

Via @秋秋Q30 from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 620343
> 
> Via @秋秋Q30 from Weixin




The first clear image of the Z-20F ASW variant with the ASW-radar as it seems. The previous ones were without the radar under the fuselage:

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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> The first clear image of the Z-20F ASW variant with the ASW-radar as it seems. The previous ones were without the radar under the fuselage:
> 
> View attachment 620346







Via @大包00 from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 620350
> 
> Via @大包00 from Weibo




So I was right !  Thanks


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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 620343
> 
> Via @秋秋Q30 from Weibo





Deino said:


> The first clear image of the Z-20F ASW variant with the ASW-radar as it seems. The previous ones were without the radar under the fuselage:
> 
> View attachment 620346







Via 舰船知识

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## kungfugymnast

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 620350
> 
> Via @大包00 from Weibo



Just what I need. Other than 5-bladed rotors, how do you distinguish z20 fuselage from US original UH-60 Blackhawk & SH-60 Seahawk?


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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 620343
> 
> Via @秋秋Q30 from Weibo


CG










Via @高山CG from Weibo

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## LKJ86

By 吴龙飞

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## aziqbal

This helo will definitely confuse the USN


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## JohnWick

Deino said:


> The first clear image of the Z-20F ASW variant with the ASW-radar as it seems. The previous ones were without the radar under the fuselage:
> 
> View attachment 620346


No offense deino but this is called the day light robbery of Black Hawk Design.

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## dbc

aziqbal said:


> This helo will definitely confuse the USN




For a second I thought I was hallucinating!!


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## kungfugymnast

JohnWick said:


> No offense deino but this is called the day light robbery of Black Hawk Design.



It is indeed, clearly stating reverse engineered & replicated Blackhawk with modifications made. They could have come up with different design when they could come up with the engine generating similar shp output. If Z20 was made 10 years ago, understood that they can't come up with own design but this came out last year so it is not right. Blackhawk helicopter is ugly, wonder why copied the look? Could have come up with more futuristic than NH90 & AW101.


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## vi-va

kungfugymnast said:


> It is indeed, clearly stating reverse engineered & replicated Blackhawk with modifications made. They could have come up with different design when they could come up with the engine generating similar shp output. If Z20 was made 10 years ago, understood that they can't come up with own design but this came out last year so it is not right. Blackhawk helicopter is ugly, wonder why copied the look? Could have come up with more futuristic than NH90 & AW101.


You think Airbus 320 reverse engineered Boeing 737 as well?

You can't judge a book by the cover, it looks alike, true. The engine, the Rotor, the blade and information and control system are completely newly designed.

Actually all the important sub system are different from US black hawk.

Don't be so simple so superficial.

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## kungfugymnast

viva_zhao said:


> You think Airbus 320 reverse engineered Boeing 737 as well?
> 
> You can't judge a book by the cover, it looks alike, true. The engine, the Rotor, the blade and information and control system are completely newly designed.
> 
> Actually all the important sub system are different from US black hawk.
> 
> Don't be so simple so superficial.



NATO countries often conducted research on US aircrafts they bought. French airbus definitely did reverse engineering on Boeing & MD in the past and present. They'll do the same on F-35 they are getting to replicate its stealth, avionics, powerful engines then come up with new Eurofighter project. 

Verdict is, they should come up with other design rather than blackhawk lookalike.


----------



## vi-va

kungfugymnast said:


> NATO countries often conducted research on US aircrafts they bought. French airbus definitely did reverse engineering on Boeing & MD in the past and present. They'll do the same on F-35 they are getting to replicate its stealth, avionics, powerful engines then come up with new Eurofighter project.
> 
> Verdict is, they should come up with other design rather than blackhawk lookalike.


If you work on high tech, especially on engineering field. You will understand, high tech is not like making socks, toys. You can easily reverse engineering low end stuff, high tech is not.

There are 200 countries can buy Airbus, Boeing airplane, there are tens of countries can buy F-16, Black hawk, there are several countries can buy F-15. There are dozens of countries now buying F-35.

But there are only handful of countries can made counterpart. Russia can make Su-35, Su-57, IL-76, IL-476. France can make Rafale. China can make J-10, J-16, J-20, Y-20, Long March rocket. What about all other countries?

Even India with 1.3 billion people, and a huge pool of talents serving the world can not make a decent domestic fighter jet, not a decent domestic main battle tank.

If copy and reverse engineering that simple, the reality tell the opposite.

High tech has no short cut, you have to build domestic industry, invest billions on R&D, decades of input and push very hard. 

There is no such thing you can buy and make a copy on high tech, otherwise it's no high tech in the first place.

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## kungfugymnast

viva_zhao said:


> If you work on high tech, especially on engineering field. You will understand, high tech is not like making socks, toys. You can easily reverse engineering low end stuff, high tech is not.
> 
> There are 200 countries can buy Airbus, Boeing airplane, there are tens of countries can buy F-16, Black hawk, there are several countries can buy F-15. There are dozens of countries now buying F-35.
> 
> But there are only handful of countries can made counterpart. Russia can make Su-35, Su-57, IL-76, IL-476. France can make Rafale. China can make J-10, J-16, J-20, Y-20, Long March rocket. What about all other countries?
> 
> Even India with 1.3 billion people, and a huge pool of talents serving the world can not make a decent domestic fighter jet, not a decent domestic main battle tank.
> 
> If copy and reverse engineering that simple, the reality tell the opposite.
> 
> High tech has no short cut, you have to build domestic industry, invest billions on R&D, decades of input and push very hard.
> 
> There is no such thing you can buy and make a copy on high tech, otherwise it's no high tech in the first place.



Put aside countries without technology to reverse engineer. China has been designing their own chopper and aircraft such as Z-10, J10, J20. There's no reason why can't Z20 come up with entire own design at all. Unless they intend to sell this for infiltration purpose disguised as US Blackhawk to fool US troops, ships, aircrafts on patrol


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## vi-va

kungfugymnast said:


> Put aside countries without technology to reverse engineer. China has been designing their own chopper and aircraft such as Z-10, J10, J20. There's no reason why can't Z20 come up with entire own design at all. Unless they intend to sell this for infiltration purpose disguised as US Blackhawk to fool US troops, ships, aircrafts on patrol


We kind of copy the shape, not because we can't do something different, but we have exactly the same needs as Americans.

We need to put the Z-20 into Y-9/Y-9 which is almost the same size of C-130. Not much choice.

Btw, the aerodynamic configuration of fighter jet is important, but not that important to helicopter.

Please ignore the shape, really doesn't matter that mach as you think.

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## waja2000

kungfugymnast said:


> Put aside countries without technology to reverse engineer. China has been designing their own chopper and aircraft such as Z-10, J10, J20. There's no reason why can't Z20 come up with entire own design at all. Unless they intend to sell this for infiltration purpose disguised as US Blackhawk to fool US troops, ships, aircrafts on patrol



China military always Reverence/fans of US military asset design & capablity, Blackhawk is one of them, they always tot it is best military helicopter and since Blackhawk perform very well in PLAAF service in high altitude Tibet, and with ownership experiance and technical data from they have (speed up R&D process), not surprise Z20 nearly same with Blackhawk. 
Personally i more prefer NH90 style and more suitable for PLAN


----------



## Deino

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2876154672504503

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## sheik

kungfugymnast said:


> It is indeed, clearly stating reverse engineered & replicated Blackhawk with modifications made. They could have come up with different design when they could come up with the engine generating similar shp output. If Z20 was made 10 years ago, understood that they can't come up with own design but this came out last year so it is not right. Blackhawk helicopter is ugly, wonder why copied the look? Could have come up with more futuristic than NH90 & AW101.











China did consider and compare both designs of UH-60 and NH90. NH90 is actually a more general style to do almost everything. The advantage includes a rear cargo ramp for loading vehicles. It's a natural choice for European countries which do not have many specialized lines of choppers. And only a couple of countries have heavier models like CH-47 and CH-53. So NH90 must be also used to carry vehicles. However, China is different from those European countries. China is more like the US. The Army uses Z-20 mainly for transport of troops and air assault. For vehicle transport there are Z-8's.

The reasons why PLA chose the UH-60 style over the NH90 style might include:
1. Lower profile with smaller side area for better chance to survive from the attacks in the battle field
2. Lower profile and big side doors for easier access and easier unloading of the troops
3. Can be carried by tactical airlifters. NH90 have to carried by airlifters like A400M.
4. Better protection to the troops in a crash (thanks to the wheel placement, lower tail beam, and the rear gas tank). NH90 has to put the gas tank under floor due to the tail door
5. Cheaper than the NH90 style due to the lower profile and smaller size of the body. Different from the totally production of a few hundreds with NH90, China needs thousands of this class of helicopters for both military and civil usage. So it's a big difference.
6. Operation experience in PLA

Even though UH-60 seemed to be an older design than NH90, China can put latest avionics and material inside to make it just as advanced as NH90 and UH-60M.

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## vi-va

sheik said:


> 3. Can be carried by tactical airlifters.



I think this is one of the most important reason. Carried by Y-8/Y-9, make it best mobility all across China. 全域机动


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## kungfugymnast

sheik said:


> View attachment 631528
> View attachment 631529
> 
> 
> China did consider and compare both designs of UH-60 and NH90. NH90 is actually a more general style to do almost everything. The advantage includes a rear cargo ramp for loading vehicles. It's a natural choice for European countries which do not have many specialized lines of choppers. And only a couple of countries have heavier models like CH-47 and CH-53. So NH90 must be also used to carry vehicles. However, China is different from those European countries. China is more like the US. The Army uses Z-20 mainly for transport of troops and air assault. For vehicle transport there are Z-8's.
> 
> The reasons why PLA chose the UH-60 style over the NH90 style might include:
> 1. Lower profile with smaller side area for better chance to survive from the attacks in the battle field
> 2. Lower profile and big side doors for easier access and easier unloading of the troops
> 3. Can be carried by tactical airlifters. NH90 have to carried by airlifters like A400M.
> 4. Better protection to the troops in a crash (thanks to the wheel placement, lower tail beam, and the rear gas tank). NH90 has to put the gas tank under floor due to the tail door
> 5. Cheaper than the NH90 style due to the lower profile and smaller size of the body. Different from the totally production of a few hundreds with NH90, China needs thousands of this class of helicopters for both military and civil usage. So it's a big difference.
> 6. Operation experience in PLA
> 
> Even though UH-60 seemed to be an older design than NH90, China can put latest avionics and material inside to make it just as advanced as NH90 and UH-60M.



Thanks for the detailed info. China could have copied the stealth blackhawk artist impression design by right, at least much better looking and nobody would say copy since the stealth blackhawk was never revealed to public.


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## LKJ86

Via @万全 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @万全 from Weibo

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## bahadur999

*China-made machine guns boost weaponry capabilities for combat vehicles, boats, and helicopters*
Source:Globaltimes.cn Published: 2020/5/19 2:46:37






Photo: A three-barrel 12.7mm caliber rotary machine gun developed by China is mounted on a light armored vehicle. Photo: China Central Television


China's newest Gatling-style machine guns are expected to provide light combat vehicles, motor boats, and helicopters with heavier firepower.

One model features six 7.62mm caliber barrels and can shoot 6,000 rounds per minute, China Central Television (CCTV) reported on Sunday.

The independently developed weapon, comparable to the US-made Minigun, has been used on various combat vehicles including light armor tanks and quad bikes, according to CCTV.

China recently finished developing a more powerful version. With three -12.7mm caliber barrels, the upgrade has the highest round-per-minute at 2,000, and a bigger cartridge that can hold 400 bullets, making it more powerful than regular large-caliber machine guns, CCTV said.

Last year, China revealed the Z-20, the country's most advanced utility helicopter. The chopper is expected to become the main combat aircraft of the Chinese Army's aerial assault brigades, Shanghai-based news website eastday.com reported on Sunday.

The Chinese-made Gatling guns could be installed on the Z-20, which would allow it to provide firepower support for assault ground troops, the report also said.

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## LKJ86

Via @RazorSquad锋 from Weibo

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## vi-va

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 634480
> View attachment 634481
> View attachment 634482
> View attachment 634483
> View attachment 634485
> View attachment 634486
> View attachment 634487
> View attachment 634488
> View attachment 634489
> View attachment 634490
> 
> Via @RazorSquad锋 from Weibo


very nice CG


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## 艹艹艹

LKJ86 said:


> Via @RazorSquad锋 from Weibo


“投诚”牌 instant noodles


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## Deino

Two new images of the regular multirole transport variant of the naval Z-20 (maybe Z-20S or Z-20J)

(Images via @秋秋Q30 from Weibo)

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## Deino

Given the released image of an image showing a Z-20 mock up on the Type 055 DDG, here is a clearer image.
(Image via yuxiaochen/SDF)

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## JSCh

*Z-20 chopper features powerful homemade engine*
By Liu Xuanzun and Liu Yang in Tianjin Source:Global Times Published: 2019/10/10 22:28:40



A Z-20 utility helicopter is on display prior to the 5th China Helicopter Exposition in Tianjin on October 9, 2019. Photo: Xu Luming/GT

China's latest commissioned and domestically-manufactured military helicopter, the Z-20, is equipped with a homemade engine powerful enough for it to fly in low-oxygen plateaus and features world-leading innovative technology, said the chopper's makers prior to the 5th China Helicopter Expo on Thursday.

The Z-20 is making its first exhibit appearance at the 5th China Helicopter Expo in Tianjin, which runs from Thursday to Sunday.

The Fenglei aerobatics team of the People's Liberation Army performed on Thursday, where the chopper also made a static display.

Joining the Z-20 at the expo are the Z-19 attack helicopter - with an extra millimeter wave fire control radar at the top of its main rotor - the Z-8G transport helicopter and the Z-10 attack helicopter.

Crowds took photos with the helicopters, and were captivated by their flight performances on Thursday.

The Z-20 made its public debut at the National Day parade on October 1. At the 2019 China Helicopter Development Forum in Tianjin on Wednesday, Wang Xibao, the chief engineer of the Harbin Aircraft Industry Group under the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), told the Global Times that it is "of an advanced level in the 21st century."

"It uses technologies that are considered advanced in the world, including the active vibration control, fly-by-wire, low-noise rotor design and high performance rotor aerodynamic design," Wang said.

Li Linhua, the chief technology expert at the China Helicopter Research and Development Institute of the AVIC, said that during its development, many technological innovations were applied. Li also noted that only a few countries have helicopters with advanced fly-by-wire technology.

The Z-20 was entirely made in China, Chen Guang, a vice general manager of AVICOPTER, the helicopter branch of AVIC, told the Global Times.

As China's latest utility helicopter, the Z-20 will operate in plateaus, Chen said, noting that despite the lack of oxygen in high-altitude areas, the homemade engine is powerful enough, thanks to technological breakthroughs.

The Z-20 will contribute to China's future helicopter development as new models can learn from its advanced technologies, Chen said.

The craftsmanship of the helicopter's fuselage is excellent, as the surface seems smooth even at its joints. The large cockpit windows take up over half of the space of the aircraft's nose, with two extra windows on the floor of the cockpit, giving pilots a very wide view, the Global Times reporters observed on Wednesday.

Traditional, complicated dashboards are not found in the cockpit. Instead, the control panels use multifunctional screens. The helicopter's interior is wide and can store more equipment.

The Z-20 is a medium-lift utility helicopter that can adapt to different terrains and weathers, and can be used on missions involving personnel and cargo transport, search and rescue, reconnaissance and anti-submarine operations, experts said.

_Xu Luming contributed to this story_

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## Figaro

JSCh said:


> *Z-20 chopper features powerful homemade engine*
> By Liu Xuanzun and Liu Yang in Tianjin Source:Global Times Published: 2019/10/10 22:28:40
> 
> 
> 
> A Z-20 utility helicopter is on display prior to the 5th China Helicopter Exposition in Tianjin on October 9, 2019. Photo: Xu Luming/GT
> 
> China's latest commissioned and domestically-manufactured military helicopter, the Z-20, is equipped with a homemade engine powerful enough for it to fly in low-oxygen plateaus and features world-leading innovative technology, said the chopper's makers prior to the 5th China Helicopter Expo on Thursday.
> 
> The Z-20 is making its first exhibit appearance at the 5th China Helicopter Expo in Tianjin, which runs from Thursday to Sunday.
> 
> The Fenglei aerobatics team of the People's Liberation Army performed on Thursday, where the chopper also made a static display.
> 
> Joining the Z-20 at the expo are the Z-19 attack helicopter - with an extra millimeter wave fire control radar at the top of its main rotor - the Z-8G transport helicopter and the Z-10 attack helicopter.
> 
> Crowds took photos with the helicopters, and were captivated by their flight performances on Thursday.
> 
> The Z-20 made its public debut at the National Day parade on October 1. At the 2019 China Helicopter Development Forum in Tianjin on Wednesday, Wang Xibao, the chief engineer of the Harbin Aircraft Industry Group under the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), told the Global Times that it is "of an advanced level in the 21st century."
> 
> "It uses technologies that are considered advanced in the world, including the active vibration control, fly-by-wire, low-noise rotor design and high performance rotor aerodynamic design," Wang said.
> 
> Li Linhua, the chief technology expert at the China Helicopter Research and Development Institute of the AVIC, said that during its development, many technological innovations were applied. Li also noted that only a few countries have helicopters with advanced fly-by-wire technology.
> 
> The Z-20 was entirely made in China, Chen Guang, a vice general manager of AVICOPTER, the helicopter branch of AVIC, told the Global Times.
> 
> As China's latest utility helicopter, the Z-20 will operate in plateaus, Chen said, noting that despite the lack of oxygen in high-altitude areas, the homemade engine is powerful enough, thanks to technological breakthroughs.
> 
> The Z-20 will contribute to China's future helicopter development as new models can learn from its advanced technologies, Chen said.
> 
> The craftsmanship of the helicopter's fuselage is excellent, as the surface seems smooth even at its joints. The large cockpit windows take up over half of the space of the aircraft's nose, with two extra windows on the floor of the cockpit, giving pilots a very wide view, the Global Times reporters observed on Wednesday.
> 
> Traditional, complicated dashboards are not found in the cockpit. Instead, the control panels use multifunctional screens. The helicopter's interior is wide and can store more equipment.
> 
> The Z-20 is a medium-lift utility helicopter that can adapt to different terrains and weathers, and can be used on missions involving personnel and cargo transport, search and rescue, reconnaissance and anti-submarine operations, experts said.
> 
> _Xu Luming contributed to this story_


The 1600 kW WZ-10 engine powering the Z-20

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## LKJ86

Via @___凢先生 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @大包00 from Weibo

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## Deino

IblinI said:


>




Again the image is only visible when I quote your post?! Strange...

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 1 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 1 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @央视军事报道 from Weixin

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## Daniel808



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## LKJ86

Via @CAN-MUGUA from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @南疆号角 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Video:https://weibo.com/tv/show/1034:4565813328281605?from=old_pc_videoshow

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## IblinI

another pic of naval ASW version Z-20, unfortunately pixelated though.

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## LKJ86

Via @zuola2006 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Video:https://weibo.com/tv/show/1034:4566891688296451?from=old_pc_videoshow















Via @铁幕君SSS from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @中部战区号角 from Weixin and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 13

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## JSCh



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## LKJ86

Via @铁幕君SSS from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 689608
> 
> Via @铁幕君SSS from Weibo




Is that at Sanya?

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## LKJ86

Via @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @航空工业 from Weixin and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @垂直风行 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @高原战士 from Weixin and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 695609
> View attachment 695610
> View attachment 695611
> View attachment 695612
> View attachment 695613
> 
> Via @高原战士 from Weixin and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo




Well ... according to a text I found:


直20和直10首次出現在西藏軍區陸航旅，可能是渦軸9和渦軸10改善了高原性能

... does this mean the Tibet/Xizang LH Brigade (西藏陆航旅) received its first Z-20s & Z-10 helicopter or is this a temporary deployment of another LH Brigade to Tibet?

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## lcloo

Deino said:


> Well ... according to a text I found:
> 
> 
> 直20和直10首次出現在西藏軍區陸航旅，可能是渦軸9和渦軸10改善了高原性能
> 
> ... does this mean the Tibet/Xizang LH Brigade (西藏陆航旅) received its first Z-20s & Z-10 helicopter or is this a temporary deployment of another LH Brigade to Tibet?


The photos are for retirement ceremony of LH personnel. Since it is unlikely to have such ceremony while on a temporary deployment, this indicate permanent or long term postings on the plateau.

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> The photos are for retirement ceremony of LH personnel. Since it is unlikely to have such ceremony while on a temporary deployment, this indicate permanent or long term postings on the plateau.




Here's the source:



https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/YrNO3H352pPAGT3VLEkp2g


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## LKJ86

Via 中国航空报

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## LKJ86



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## kungfugymnast

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 700472
> View attachment 700473
> 
> View attachment 700481
> View attachment 700493
> View attachment 700500
> View attachment 700502



If WZ20 at war with country with Blackhawks, soldiers from both sides will pay extra attention as WZ20 and Blackhawks are almost identical. Always check carefully before open fire or letting it passes through.

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## Deino

And as it seems one more final news for 2021 😮 ... the first image of an armed PLA Army Aviation Z-20 carrying 8 KD-10 ATGMs. 

(Image via @秋秋Q30 from Weibo)

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @南海舰队 from Weixin

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## Deino

Even if very much blurred, this could be the first Z-20 from the Tibet/Xizang LH Brigade (西藏陆航旅) carrying the serial number LH921218. (Image courtesy of CMDSY via Huitong's CMA-Blog)

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## vi-va



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## LKJ86

Via @黑色多瑙河A from Weibo

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 706218
> 
> Via @黑色多瑙河A from Weibo


_6212, one of the prototypes of the Z-20 *naval version*._


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1349035329580195840
_with anti-tank guided missile (ATGM)_

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## LKJ86

Via @中部战区号角 from Weixin

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 707381
> Via @中部战区号角 from Weixin



Looks like an old Mi-6 in the background.

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## Stealth

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1351763033534689280


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## lcloo

Z20F (6221 0r 6321?) probably in Hainan island with weapon payload.

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## Deino

So we have 6211 & 6212 for the Z-20S multi-role/utility prototypes or 621x-numbers to denote the prototypes.

For the Z-20F ASW it looks like either 6221 or 6321 and so eventually 622x or 632x numbers?


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## LKJ86

Via CCTV and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 714221
> View attachment 714222
> 
> Via CCTV and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 714223
> View attachment 714224



Even more interesting they are said to be from the Xinjiang Brigade


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## LKJ86



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## ZeEa5KPul

Deino said:


> Even more interesting they are said to be from the Xinjiang Brigade


Why's that even more interesting?


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## vi-va

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Why's that even more interesting?


Simple. Below design means the engine, transmission and rotor system is good enough for High Altitude, below design is mainly for Infrared Signature Suppression, at the cost of less power efficient.





The combat areas near the border with India Army are 4000m-6000m, half oxygen, lack of road, cold, windy, snowy. Solders have to carry as much as possible, including tent, food, weapons, ammunitions, communication equipment, bulletproof vest, while climbing the damn high mountains.

The closer you can send your troops and supply to front line the better, it's a matter of life and death.

Infrared Signature Suppression is more important than armor. No matter what armor you have, a Stinger missile can send the millions dollars helicopter to hell.

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## ZeEa5KPul

vi-va said:


> Simple. Below design means the engine, transmission and rotor system is good enough for High Altitude, below design is mainly for Infrared Signature Suppression, at the cost of less power efficient.
> View attachment 714818
> 
> 
> The combat areas near the border with India Army are 4000m-6000m, half oxygen, lack of road, cold, windy, snowy. Solders have to carry as much as possible, including tent, food, weapons, ammunitions, communication equipment, bulletproof vest, while climbing the damn high mountains.
> 
> The closer you can send your troops and supply to front line the better, it's a matter of life and death.
> 
> Infrared Signature Suppression is more important than armor. No matter what armor you have, a Stinger missile can send the millions dollars helicopter to hell.
> 
> View attachment 714828


Yeah, I get that. What I asked was why @Deino thinks it's more interesting that these are in the Xinjiang Brigade.


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## Deino

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Yeah, I get that. What I asked was why @Deino thinks it's more interesting that these are in the Xinjiang Brigade.




Sorry for the delayed reply. First due to the reasons mentioned above by @vi-va but also since this is now the fifth or even sixth LH Brigade (161st, 121st, Xinjiang, Xizang/Tibet, plus eventually the 76th and 82nd) operating that type, which seems to show, that production is running on a high level.

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## Deino

If I'm not mistaken, these are the first images showing what appears to these depth charges on a Z-.20F


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1359900895014760457

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## kungfugymnast

Stealth said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1351763033534689280



US Blackhawks and Seahawks can't utilize hellfires, only carrying gun pods at most. Whereas China WZ20 copy could carry AGM. The article here said prototype belonging to PLAN. If the army wanted WZ-20 to carry AGM is more relevant especially for Tibet border LAC Ladakh, Sikkim providing close air support should there be battle.

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## LKJ86

Via @南部战区 from Weixin

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## lcloo

Z20 on Tibet Highland. Z20 has empty weight of 5,000kg, maximum take off weight of 10,000kg, and flying ceiling height of 6,000m. It was designed for highland operation replacing S-70C Blackhawk previously under PLA Army Aviation service, and as well as for naval operation (Z20F variant).

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Z-20F under testing

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## vi-va

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Z-20F under testing


pictures lost

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## JSCh

From 梁无咎 via weibo.

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## LKJ86



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## jaybird

Is China working on a stealth or low observability version of Z-20?

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via https://weibo.com/tv/show/1034:4645085330210845?from=old_pc_videoshow

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 751008
> 
> Via https://weibo.com/tv/show/1034:4645085330210845?from=old_pc_videoshow




The naval variant with KD-10 ATGMs again?


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## Polestar 2



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## khanasifm

What is the production rate for z20 now days ??


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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1419568059916894209

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## Zarvan



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## GiantPanda

Zarvan said:


> View attachment 786311
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> View attachment 786312
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> View attachment 786313
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> View attachment 786314



Beautiful. First armed Army variant?


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## Zarvan

GiantPanda said:


> Beautiful. First armed Army variant?


Looks like so. They are also working on Naval armed variant


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## Great Janjua

Zarvan said:


> View attachment 786311
> 
> View attachment 786312
> 
> View attachment 786313
> 
> View attachment 786314


Now am heartbroken again but this time it's a machine.

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## GiantPanda

Zarvan said:


> Looks like so. They are also working on Naval armed variant



Yes, we've seen armed naval variants for quite a while now. But first time I've seen one for the army machine.


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## lcloo

Basically they just added a domestic version of ESSS (External Store Support System) to Z20 so that it can carry tons of missiles, rockets, cannon and fuel tank. What is more interesting is : Have they upgraded the engine, seeing that they have revised the gas exhaust tube facing upward.

China had experimented with ESSS on their S-70C-2 Black Hawk a long time ago, so this development was only to be expected. I am looking towards a dedicated heavy attack helicopter based on Z20.

A very old photo of PLA Aviation S-70C-2 with Chinese versiion of ESSS.

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## Akasa

More photos of the new Z-20 "Battlehawk" variant. Looks like it has a chin-mounted cannon. Some are saying it is a pitot tube but it looks too long to be one, plus pitot tubes aren't usually mounted on the chin.

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## Deino

Akasa said:


> More photos of the new Z-20 "Battlehawk" variant. Looks like it has a chin-mounted cannon. Some are saying it is a pitot tube but it looks too long to be one, plus pitot tubes aren't usually mounted on the chin.



no, ist is clearly not a Gin but also not a regulär pitot but a langer air-data sensor probe commonly seen in prototypes.

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## kungfugymnast

Akasa said:


> More photos of the new Z-20 "Battlehawk" variant. Looks like it has a chin-mounted cannon. Some are saying it is a pitot tube but it looks too long to be one, plus pitot tubes aren't usually mounted on the chin.
> 
> View attachment 786335
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> View attachment 786347



Inflight refuelling probe? With high shp engines being more powerful than attack helicopter, guess they'll make Z-20 part time attack helicopter while deploying troops to frontline.


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## Polestar 2

So they are making a Chinese Hind?


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## lcloo

CG artist impression of Z20 with attached ESSS and its load of missiles and rockets. Besides weapon, fuel tank can be attached, freeing the interior cabin space from the large attachable yellow fuel tank that we saw so often.

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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> Inflight refuelling probe? With high shp engines being more powerful than attack helicopter, guess they'll make Z-20 part time attack helicopter while deploying troops to frontline.




Surely not, an IFR-probe is much thicker


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## luciferdd

First batch women drivers finished their maiden flight on Z-20

BTW i'm falling in love with her!

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## lcloo

Naval transport variant Z20J prototype #6215.

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## Shotgunner51

Z-20 at AVIC Harbin Aircraft Industry Group
















Z-20 internal control panel

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## Shotgunner51

An unusual angle of naval Z-20F, good details

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## lcloo

Another photo. This one is anti-submarine warfare version, with 360 degree radar.

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## Shotgunner51

Z-20 utility, Z-8 transport, Z-10 medium attack helos of 76th Army Corp (Group Army) during a flight training exercise on January 5, 2022. (Apparently missing members are Z-9 light utility & Z-19 light attack/scout)

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## Shotgunner51

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477627381053485057

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## WinterFangs

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507001612480380935

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## Great Janjua

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 831881
> View attachment 831882
> View attachment 831883
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> View attachment 831885
> View attachment 831886
> View attachment 831887
> View attachment 831888
> 
> Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo


Just give us the whole damn TOT. ❤❤❤

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 831881
> View attachment 831882
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> View attachment 831886
> View attachment 831887
> View attachment 831888
> 
> Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo


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## LKJ86

Via @中国军视网 from Weibo


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## GiantPanda

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 833855
> 
> Via @中国军视网 from Weibo



See them everywhere. How many in service? Must be nearing 100 of all variants?


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## LKJ86

Via http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2022-04/19/content_10149105.htm

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.plapic.com.cn/pub/2022-04/02/content_10145561.htm

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 836705
> View attachment 836707
> View attachment 836708
> View attachment 836709
> View attachment 836710
> 
> Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo




In service or still a prototype?


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## ahtan_china

Navy version / Land version

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 836705
> View attachment 836707
> View attachment 836708
> View attachment 836709
> View attachment 836710
> 
> Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @东部战区 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @燃烧的哈尔科夫 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

Wow!!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527984213584117760

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## vi-va

Deino said:


> Wow!!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527984213584117760


Longer???


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## LKJ86

Via @南部战区 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via 央视军事 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2022-06/03/content_10160183.htm

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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/lj/2022-06/16/content_10163752.htm

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## Super Falcon

Pakistan I thinking to replace them with MI 17


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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @央广军事 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## S10

I think China's army aviation units need to conduct more low flying and night time drills. If you look at the war between Ukraine and Russia, most choppers are flying under 50 meters to avoid being targeted by SAM. Flying low also reduces MANPADS operator's reaction time and firing time window. Having a slow moving helicopter flying several hundred meter high in the air is quite dangerous in modern warfare.


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## ozranger

S10 said:


> I think China's army aviation units need to conduct more low flying and night time drills. If you look at the war between Ukraine and Russia, most choppers are flying under 50 meters to avoid being targeted by SAM. Flying low also reduces MANPADS operator's reaction time and firing time window. Having a slow moving helicopter flying several hundred meter high in the air is quite dangerous in modern warfare.


While they do reportedly practise that way and keep mounting better protective sensors and armour to helicopters, their recent focus is on using missiles with range over 25km to attack remote targets with UAV flying higher altitudes to provide target seeking. They have a different doctrine compared to the Russians.


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## aziqbal

S10 said:


> I think China's army aviation units need to conduct more low flying and night time drills. If you look at the war between Ukraine and Russia, most choppers are flying under 50 meters to avoid being targeted by SAM. Flying low also reduces MANPADS operator's reaction time and firing time window. Having a slow moving helicopter flying several hundred meter high in the air is quite dangerous in modern warfare.



The reason why Russians fly so low is because when they go higher they lose resolution on the ground due to lack of advanced optics and sensors 

China should invest heavily in suppression of enemy defenses rather than learning to fly low

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## casual

ozranger said:


> While they do reportedly practise that way and keep mounting better protective sensors and armour to helicopters, their recent focus is on using missiles with range over 25km to attack remote targets with UAV flying higher altitudes to provide target seeking. They have a different doctrine compared to the Russians.


he's talking about the Z20 not Z10. Z20 needs to drop off troops and supplies.


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## Polestar 2

S10 said:


> I think China's army aviation units need to conduct more low flying and night time drills. If you look at the war between Ukraine and Russia, most choppers are flying under 50 meters to avoid being targeted by SAM. Flying low also reduces MANPADS operator's reaction time and firing time window. Having a slow moving helicopter flying several hundred meter high in the air is quite dangerous in modern warfare.


Low flying helo is even more dangerous in war situation. You are easily in the range of small arms like 0.5 cannon or heavy machine gun. Flying higher means those small arm are ineffective to take out those helo.

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## ozranger

casual said:


> he's talking about the Z20 not Z10. Z20 needs to drop off troops and supplies.



Russian's biggest problem is that they don't clear the fields before transporting infantries into the drop-off area. The PLA seems to adopt a different doctrine that they won't even risk their attack helicopters and just let UAVs take the most dangerous jobs.

When on this different doctrine, the Ukraine experiences don't quite apply.


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## lcloo

Idealy, Z19/UAV should do a scouting round in the operation area to assess danger level on a day or a few hours before Z20 flew, and Z20 are to be escorted by Z10/Z19 or long endurance recon/attack drone. All these assets are available within a combined brigade itself.


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## LKJ86



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## S10

Polestar 2 said:


> Low flying helo is even more dangerous in war situation. You are easily in the range of small arms like 0.5 cannon or heavy machine gun. Flying higher means those small arm are ineffective to take out those helo.


Flying low reduces the reaction time window of engagement for MANPADS and small arms fire. Having a target high in the air is much easier to detect and engage. It's difficult to hit a chopper flying near tree top height.


aziqbal said:


> The reason why Russians fly so low is because when they go higher they lose resolution on the ground due to lack of advanced optics and sensors
> 
> China should invest heavily in suppression of enemy defenses rather than learning to fly low


You can suppress radar guided SAMs, but you certain you can pick off every guy standing under a tree or a bush with a MANPAD that does not give off warnings?


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## LKJ86

Via 新华社

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## LKJ86

Via @CAN-MUGUA from Weibo

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## leviathan

how many Z20 are there?


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## LKJ86

Via 中国航空报

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## LKJ86

Via http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2022-09/02/content_10181521_2.htm

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## LKJ86

Via http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2022-09/05/content_10181867_2.htm

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2022-10/03/content_10189140_3.htm

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## LKJ86

Via @五桶工坊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via 雾海

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## LKJ86

Via @飞砂走奶冰咖啡 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @超级大喵酱和嘤酱 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2022-12/05/content_10203417.htm

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## Horse_Rider

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 903079
> 
> Via http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2022-12/05/content_10203417.htm



Pakistan needs to work with China and start license assembly of some heli variant that can have a dual use. We need our local industry to build helicopters sort of like the JF-17 but a platform that has already seen economies of scale in China so it's cheaper for our country, vs. starting from scratch.

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## LKJ86

Via 舰船知识

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 903902
> 
> Via 舰船知识




Any news, when the naval variant(s) will finally enter PLAN service?


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## LKJ86

Via http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2022-12/19/content_10206589.htm

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## LKJ86




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