# Aero India 2013



## ganimi kawa

Guys, here is a gist of some of the papers and keynote addresses from the Aero India seminar 2011.

Please note that...

1. This is a gist and I'm not quoting the speakers directly.

2. I'm just giving out points which will be of extreme importance for jingoes out there. 

3. I'm not following the timeline of sessions but focussing on a project and trying to collate info together. 

4. Any errors that may creep in are 99.99% my own and not of the speakers.


*Coming shortly, Updates on LCH and Helina!*

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## Kinetic

Good thread ganimi. Expecting some nice updates. Previous AI-2009 seminar had revealed many details about the projects in India.

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## GORKHALI

ganimi kawa said:


> Guys, here is a gist of some of the papers and keynote addresses from the Aero India seminar 2011.
> 
> Please note that...
> 
> 1. This is a gist and I'm not quoting the speakers directly.
> 
> 2. I'm just giving out points which will be of extreme importance for jingoes out there.
> 
> 3. I'm not following the timeline of sessions but focussing on a project and trying to collate info together.
> 
> 4. Any errors that may creep in are 99.99% my own and not of the speakers.
> 
> 
> *Coming shortly, Updates on LCH and Helina!*


 
gamiji! you at AI ?

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## riCoh

I got the tIcket today....yay..
kaun kaun aa raha hai Sunday ko ????


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## ganimi kawa

*LCH*

Dr. Prasad Sampat, HAL.

1. LCH was conceived based on ASR created after the Kargil investigations.

*2. TD 1 flight displays in AE 2011. TD 2 will be static display. TD 3 will join in Feb 2012.*


*3. 350 kg weight reduction done successfully on TD1.*



*4.Features of LCH---*

* Push pull cable used instead of rod for lower weight and higher safety for the craft.

* Cockpit and HM interface developed with extensive input from users from early stage.

**LCH more stable than ALH.*

*Directional solidified blades.

** IR suppresor.*

** Facetting for RCS reduction.*

* Smart materials for vibration suppression and health monitoring.

** EW and UV based MAWS being developed. (Different source)*



*5.SPECS*

MTOW- 6500kg.
V NE-  330 kmph; V H- 275 kmph.
Rate of climb- 12 m/s
Max. Altitude- 6500m
Range- 570 km on int fuel,
750 km with aux fuel. 


*6. Modifications on TD1*

** End plates removed- For weight reduction as the extra vertical stabilisation was not needed. (That ends the debate on AE 2011 thread!)
*
* Both tail and nose landing gear fairings.

** Armament boom modified by giving it an aerofoil cross section.*

*Optimised cowling scoops.





> Future Plans.
> 
> 1. Developing and testing local full glass cockpit, IADS, AFCS, Hydraulic actuators (some already developed.)
> 
> *2.LUH- It is at metal cutting stage!
> 
> 3. IMRH- Indian Multi role Helicopter--- Wlii start in 2011/early 2012.*

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## Kinetic

Thanks for the updates ganimi. They are heavily investing on stealth, protection, sensors and high altitude warfare.

All these modification indicates these....

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## ganimi kawa

Continued from earlier post---

Jingo bytes! 

1. Higher crash worthiness than ALH.

2. Glass cockpit with MFDs, smart interfaces.

*3. Higher power Shakti engine variant!*

*4. Fully pressurized cockpit, can even operate in NBC conditions. (huge advantage in high altitude warfare)*

5.Metal composite armour.

*6. Four hard points, for carrying upto 8 Helinas!*


@ Kinetic,

I agree completely. The LCH is going to be a real mean copter from technology and sheer performance aspects especially at high altitude. The stealth component was higher than my expectations, so was the flight performance! Wished we knew something about the DIRCM in development.

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## SpArK

Guyss.. see it all live in here

Live webcast of Aero India 2011 International Seminar

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## SpArK

Was that link helpfull???


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## SpArK

Some interesting information in auditorium c


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## ganimi kawa

SpArK said:


> Guyss.. see it all live in here
> 
> Live webcast of Aero India 2011 International Seminar


 

That is great, can we co ordinate our efforts to create a complete AE 2011 seminar database?

I could not attend the other two symposiums (UAV-1, and Airborne Surveillance), can someone put their gist too?



Also, interesting activity in audito B than C!


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## SpArK

all run to C.. lots of talks on missiles..


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## Kinetic

ganimi kawa said:


> Continued from earlier post---
> 
> Jingo bytes!
> 
> 1. Higher crash worthiness than ALH.
> 
> 2. Glass cockpit with MFDs, smart interfaces.
> 
> *3. Higher power Shakti engine variant!*
> 
> *4. Fully pressurized cockpit, can even operate in NBC conditions. (huge advantage in high altitude warfare)*
> 
> 5.Metal composite armour.
> 
> *6. Four hard points, for carrying upto 8 Helinas!*
> 
> 
> @ Kinetic,
> 
> I agree completely. The LCH is going to be a real mean copter from technology and sheer performance aspects especially at high altitude. The stealth component was higher than my expectations, so was the flight performance! Wished we knew something about the DIRCM in development.


 
I was also looking at DIRCM development for long time. If you get some info about it will be great. Its one of the latest and key technologies of LCH.


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## indushek

Keep it coming Ganimi, your previous thread on DRDO developments was an eye opener for nay sayers, hope u can give more such info here too.

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## SpArK

Austria , read Euro fighter defending the purchase decisions on lack of conflicts since a decade and financial constrints..

The talker talked about low chinese quality replicas in missiles.

I will be updating room C

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## SpArK

New seeker hear R-77 explained.. also SD-10 ( says it comes with dual mode seeker)

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## SpArK




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## Kinetic

SpArK said:


> all run to C.. lots of talks on missiles..


 
Some Russian delegation talking about PAK FA T-50. He has a slide of T-50 vs F-22. lol 

Now R-77MP-D comparing it with other AAM in the world. 

He talked well, even talked about Hollywood and movies.


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## SpArK

Dr. Sa Gollakota , DRDO scientist is next... looking for info on astra


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## SpArK




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## SpArK

Some shitty animation with A2A missiles with final countdown back ground score..


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## ganimi kawa

Mr. KS Vara Prasad 
PD, DRDL, DRDO 

*&#8220;HELINA 
Long Range Air-To-Ground Missile for Attack Helicopters&#8221;*


HELINA is being developed in two phases.

1. First version will be NAG + some LRUs + booster for increased range.

2. Second version will have long range IIR seeker for exploiting full potential of the missile.




* So, as of now Helina works like a ARH BVRAAM. 

The target is aquired by the EO systems on the copter which then find range and other targetting data to decide the flight path of helina.

The seeker of the missile is slaved to the Target aquisition system at this point and missile is launched.

Using mid course updates through RF link from the copter, the missile will approximate the target till it is within the range of it's IIR seeker.

Then the images and data will be relayed back to the copter where the WSO can decide the further course of action for the missile.

If auto mode is selected the missile will lock in on the target using it's own seeker and destroy the target!





*Specs and Current status.*

1. Range-- 7.5 km

2. Seeker range--- 3 km.

3. Max missiles per launcher----2 ( Total 8 on LCH)

4. Current status---

* Two way RF data link, Launchers and other equipments tested successfully.

* Covert admission of the successful test of the missile itself.



*Jingo bytes!*

* Plans for N LOS type system.

* Range expected to go upto 15-20 km.

* Study on for integration with UAVs like the Rustom!

@ Kinetic,

*DIRCM seems be a dark arts area, I could not get anything more than a few patronizing smiles! Some heavy work is definitely going on with suspected israeli involvement.*

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## Kinetic

ganimi kawa said:


> Mr. KS Vara Prasad
> PD, DRDL, DRDO
> 
> *HELINA
> Long Range Air-To-Ground Missile for Attack Helicopters*
> 
> *Specs and Current status.*
> 
> 1. Range-- 7.5 km
> 
> 2. Seeker range--- 3 km.
> 
> 3. Max missiles per launcher----2 ( Total 8 on LCH)
> 
> 4. Current status---
> 
> * Two way RF data link, Launchers and other equipments tested successfully.
> 
> * Covert admission of the successful test of the missile itself.
> 
> 
> 
> *Jingo bytes!*
> *
> * Plans for N LOS type system.
> 
> * Range expected to go upto 15-20 km.
> 
> * Study on for integration with UAVs like the Rustom!*





7.5 km is excellent. But waiting for 20 km Helina.

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## tallboy123

SpArK said:


>


 

Flanker philosophy on F-22:-

"In the End,his stealthy pockets will be empty....!"

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## Kinetic

Astra on the SU-30MKI

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## indushek

bhai log can anybody tell me what is a captive flight of a A2A missile please?


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## Kinetic

indushek said:


> bhai log can anybody tell me what is a captive flight of a A2A missile please?


 
They are testing the aerodynamics of both the missile and the aircraft combined, vibration test and its effects on the missile as well as pre-flight argumentation tests.

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## sudhir007

which seeker HELINA use is it import one or indigenous. i read somewhere that MMR seeking in HELINA and blk-2 of NAG.


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## GORKHALI

kinectic bhai or ganimiji any news on ASTRA RANGE ?? When it's going to test fire from an aircraft.?
And i dint get what they talking about SD 10..??


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## GORKHALI

LCH doesnt have the other active
vibration control because of space
requirements.. so structure built
with slight weight penalty to
withstand higher vibration Shakthi engine (Shakthi lifts 200kg at
6km alt on ALH) Survivability:
IR suppressors for Engine IR
Dual engines, Dual - hydraulics
NBC pressurized cockpit (not in ALH)
flat panles to reduce glint Weapons:
AA, Rockets, AG, Datalink, Turret guns Makes a confident & sweeping
statement "LCH the most agile helo in the world today" move from Push-pull rods to push-pull
cables to reduce weight, improve
maintainence. MLG, TLG tested for crashworthiness We have had to reduce about 350kgs from initial estimates which we did fairly successfully Modifications based on TD1 flight testsfor drag reduction, flight performance) Optimization of cowling scopps
MLG fairing modified armament boom --> new
design more of a wing (boom with an airfoil shape). Booms are removable. TLG fairing Tail end plates removed (were giving
more horizontal stability than
required.. so removed to reduce drag) Completed 65flights covering 35hrs AFCS turned on - the LCH was more stable than ALH even without AFCS . Pilots were extremely impressed with the stability. The AFCS was similar to
ALH - we only needed very minor
tweaks for gains during roll as LCH has lower roll inertia compared to ALH. TD2 paining will be a huge surprise.. It is very fancy painting that I would love for you all to see . This kind of painting is not done anywhere in the world. Also in pipeline is the indigenous development of IDAS, AFCS. 
Courtsey BR.


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## Kinetic

PANDORA said:


> kinectic bhai or ganimiji any news on ASTRA RANGE ?? When it's going to test fire from an aircraft.?
> And i dint get what they talking about SD 10..??


 
Astra has a range of 80 km. This year they will test it from SU-30MKI.

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## kingdurgaking

One best thing on LCH-2 is the digital camouflage... looks really cool and very professional


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## tallboy123

^^can some one post LCH-2 digital camaflouge pic???


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## GORKHALI

tallboy123 said:


> ^^can some one post LCH-2 digital camaflouge pic???

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## GORKHALI

why they still not assembeld TD2 ??or its going to be as it's in static display ...


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## Kinetic

PANDORA said:


> why they still not assembeld TD2 ??or its going to be as it's in static display ...


 
It will be for static display only. But will get more gears than TD-1.


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## GORKHALI

LCH doesnt have the other active
vibration control because of space
requirements.. so structure built
with slight weight penalty to
withstand higher vibration Shakthi engine (Shakthi lifts 200kg at
6km alt on ALH) Survivability:
IR suppressors for Engine IR
Dual engines, Dual - hydraulics
NBC pressurized cockpit (not in ALH)
flat panles to reduce glint Weapons:
AA, Rockets, AG, Datalink, Turret guns Makes a confident & sweeping
statement "LCH the most agile helo in the world today" move from Push-pull rods to push-pull
cables to reduce weight, improve
maintainence. MLG, TLG tested for crashworthiness We have had to reduce about 350kgs from initial estimates which we did fairly successfully Modifications based on TD1 flight testsfor drag reduction, flight performance) Optimization of cowling scopps
MLG fairing modified armament boom --> new
design more of a wing (boom with an airfoil shape). Booms are removable. TLG fairing Tail end plates removed (were giving
more horizontal stability than
required.. so removed to reduce drag) Completed 65flights covering 35hrs AFCS turned on - the LCH was more stable than ALH even without AFCS . Pilots were extremely impressed with the stability. The AFCS was similar to
ALH - we only needed very minor
tweaks for gains during roll as LCH has lower roll inertia compared to ALH. TD2 paining will be a huge surprise.. It is very fancy painting that I would love for you all to see . This kind of painting is not done anywhere in the world. Also in pipeline is the indigenous development of IDAS, AFCS Top rakall


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## jha

I totally missed this thread.. Was working all this time...
Want every bit of info...especially missiles...
Thnx Ganimi and Benny..

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## ganimi kawa

*AVM PP Katarki 
CABS,DRDO 

&#8220;Indian AEW&C System&#8221; *


** No clear indication about the range and coverage of the primary radar! It is said to be a work in progress.
Ultimate target of 300 degree coverage (150 on each side) was heard off the podium. *



Features--

*1. Aircraft modifications vis a vis other Emb 145 based systems.*

1. In flight refuelling.

2. IFF (friend foe identifcation)

3. Satcom radome.

4. Two auxillary power units instead of one.

5. Three cooling packs instead of two.

6. Fusalage fuel tank for extra range.

7.Structural strengthening and addition of upto 59 extra antennae.



Systems

a) LSTAR---

1. S band radar with elevation scan added to avoid aircraft banking problems.

2.Teflon based antenna panels.

3. Convection cooling.

b) IFF.

1. L band radar, also housed in the primary radome.


c) ESM.

*360 degree coverage.

d) CSM.

* 360 degree with recording facility

e) Communication.

1. 7 VUH F sets for voice comm.

2. C band high speed data link for Line of sight transfer.

3. SATCOM termonal for non LOS transfer.







> *Jingo bytes!*
> 
> 1. Embraer will deliver the craft late* this year, after certifying it to FAR-25 standards with the radome.* I repeat FAR-25 certification--this year!
> 
> *2. IOC expected in 2012.
> *
> 
> 3. Even the CEMILAC chief said that this program was perfectly on time and he was confidant of IOC certification by 2012!
> 
> *4. Eat dung, Rajat Pandit! *

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## angeldemon_007

Thank you all for such great knowledge and thank you for opening such a thread...
Also don't you guys think that the max. speed of LCH should be much more than 275 kmph ?? I mean its lowest among its competitors. Although it has many great features which i never expected. Great work by HAL.


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## Firemaster

ganimi kawa said:


> *LCH*
> 
> Dr. Prasad Sampat, HAL.
> 
> 1. LCH was conceived based on ASR created after the Kargil investigations.
> 
> *2. TD 1 flight displays in AE 2011. TD 2 will be static display. TD 3 will join in Feb 2012.*
> 
> 
> *3. 350 kg weight reduction done successfully on TD1.*
> 
> 
> 
> *4.Features of LCH---*
> 
> * Push pull cable used instead of rod for lower weight and higher safety for the craft.
> 
> * Cockpit and HM interface developed with extensive input from users from early stage.
> 
> **LCH more stable than ALH.*
> 
> **Directional solidified blades.*
> 
> ** IR suppresor.*
> 
> ** Facetting for RCS reduction.*
> 
> * Smart materials for vibration suppression and health monitoring.
> 
> ** EW and UV based MAWS being developed. (Different source)*
> 
> 
> 
> *5.SPECS*
> 
> MTOW- 6500kg.
> V NE- 330 kmph; V H- 275 kmph.
> Rate of climb- 12 m/s
> Max. Altitude- 6500m
> Range- 570 km on int fuel,
> 750 km with aux fuel.
> 
> 
> *6. Modifications on TD1*
> 
> ** End plates removed- For weight reduction as the extra vertical stabilisation was not needed. (That ends the debate on AE 2011 thread!)
> *
> * Both tail and nose landing gear fairings.
> 
> ** Armament boom modified by giving it an aerofoil cross section.*
> 
> *Optimised cowling scoops.



directional solidified blades means single crystal blade technolgy
how did they got it ?
from other country or home grown?


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## Firemaster

my idm is not catching url from aero india seminar site?
any solution to this


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## Firemaster

angeldemon_007 said:


> Thank you all for such great knowledge and thank you for opening such a thread...
> Also don't you guys think that the max. speed of LCH should be much more than 275 kmph ?? I mean its lowest among its competitors. Although it has many great features which i never expected. Great work by HAL.



perhaps 275 kmph is at thin air atmosphere in 
kashimir hills


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## angeldemon_007

> perhaps 275 kmph is at thin air atmosphere in
> kashimir hills


Yeah at high altitude if the problem is there then 275 is fine but at rest of the condition it should operate at high speed. Although the seminarr is great.

I am not able to access the videos of seminar now...help me


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## IndianArmy

firemaster said:


> directional solidified blades means single crystal blade technolgy
> how did they got it ?
> from other country or home grown?


 
Well It certainly is a Single crystal Blade technology, we Had developed one for Kaveri Though.... But I doubt we had a Program running for This..

If this is true then LCH is indeed a Respectable development in 4 years time...

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## Kinetic

ganimi kawa said:


> *AVM PP Katarki
> CABS,DRDO
> 
> &#8220;Indian AEW&C System&#8221; *
> 
> 
> ** No clear indication about the range and coverage of the primary radar! It is said to be a work in progress.
> Ultimate target of 300 degree coverage (150 on each side) was heard off the podium. *
> 
> 
> 
> Features--
> 
> *1. Aircraft modifications vis a vis other Emb 145 based systems.*
> 
> 1. In flight refuelling.
> 
> 2. IFF (friend foe identifcation)
> 
> 3. Satcom radome.
> 
> 4. Two auxillary power units instead of one.
> 
> 5. Three cooling packs instead of two.
> 
> 6. Fusalage fuel tank for extra range.
> 
> 7.Structural strengthening and addition of upto 59 extra antennae.
> 
> 
> 
> Systems
> 
> a) LSTAR---
> 
> 1. S band radar with elevation scan added to avoid aircraft banking problems.
> 
> 2.Teflon based antenna panels.
> 
> 3. Convection cooling.
> 
> b) IFF.
> 
> 1. L band radar, also housed in the primary radome.
> 
> 
> c) ESM.
> 
> *360 degree coverage.
> 
> d) CSM.
> 
> * 360 degree with recording facility
> 
> e) Communication.
> 
> 1. 7 VUH F sets for voice comm.
> 
> 2. C band high speed data link for Line of sight transfer.
> 
> 3. SATCOM termonal for non LOS transfer.


 
Though there is no official source mentioning the range but I think the instrumental range is 475 km. The L-band radar and S-band IFF has huge benefits. Way to go. 2012 IOC and 2013 induction means the AWACS is developed in just four years!!!  This was possible only because of earlier R&D done on AESA and related technologies.

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## Abingdonboy

I watched two of the seminars in full yesterday I think "C" and "B" I particularly liked the "B" video, very informative about aircraft testing- the F/A 18 SH pilot was very good. But my highlight was the last speaker- A captain in the IN who is a test pilot for N-LCA, it was really strange to see how self crtitising he was about the N-LCA, but he spoke the truth and it was very good because it didn't feel like a sales pitch. Also he gave some good updates on the status of the N-LCA program as a whole including the SBTF in Goa.

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## RPK

*Trainer aircraft Pilatus set to make its Aero India debut - Bangalore - DNA
*

Aero India 2013, which is to be held in a months time at the Air Force Station Yelahanka, is expected to see quite a few aircraft making their debut at the air show. Among them will be the Pilatus IAF PC-7 MkII Basic Trainer Aircraft which will be inducted into the Indian Air Force later this year.

The Pilatus will be present at Aero India 2013. At the show, a largescale model of the IAF PC-7 MkII basic trainer aircraft will be showcased in the companys chalet, Pilatus Aircraft Limited Officials told DNA. The single-engine turboprop aircraft IAF PC-7 MkII upon its induction into the air force will be used to train rookie pilots.

For the last couple of years, the Air Forces training process at the entry level in the academies has affected as there has been no basic trainer. HPT-32 Deepak which had for decades serving as the basic trainer at the air force academy has been grounded after a crash in 2009. In place of the HPT-32 Deepak, rookie pilots are trained on the Kiran Mk II aircraft.

Following this, India had signed a contract with Switzerland based Pilatus Aircraft Limited for the delivery of 75 basic trainer aircraft to the Indian Air Force. The deliveries and handover of the first PC-7 MkII trainer aircraft to the Indian Air Force will commence in Q1 2013. The fast-tracked programme is well on schedule and the first IAF instructor pilots have already completed their aircraft conversion course in Switzerland with technician training to be carried out in early 2013,added officials.

At Aero India 2013, which is to be held between February 6 and 10, the Swiss aircraft manufacturer will also have the turbine-powered business aircraft Pilatus PC-12 NG on static display. The Swiss aircraft manufacturer has sold more than PC-12 NG 1200 aircraft across the world and is sued for executive transport, cargo, air ambulance, airline and government special mission applications.

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## RPK

*HAL to unveil armed Rudra helicopter at Aero India 2013 - Army Technology*

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is planning to unveil an armed variant of its Rudra advanced light helicopter (ALH) at the forthcoming Aero India Exhibition, which is scheduled to be held in February 2013 in Bangalore, India.
Fully designed and manufactured by HAL, the latest version features an array of new weapon systems, such as 20mm turreted gun, 70mm rocket pods and air-to-air combat missiles.
Commenting on the helicopter, HAL chairman RK Tyagi was quoted by The Times of India as saying that the helicopter's combat capability has been augmented through integration of electronic warfare suite and counter-measure devices, such as flares and chaffs dispensers.
"Sighting systems, such as electro-optical pod and helmet-pointing systems, have been integrated to augment target aiming capabilities," Tyagi added.
Also known as ALH-WSI, the helicopter has already proven its performance and firing capabilities during extensive flight trials, and is currently awaiting initial operational clearance (IOC), which is expected to be awarded shortly.

"Initial deliveries of Rudra to the army are planned in this fiscal year," Tyagi said.
Due to advanced self-defence and protection suite, the helicopter is expected to be used for several armed and unarmed missions, including heliborne assault, logistic support, reconnaissance, casualty evacuation, anti-tank warfare, close air support, and anti-submarine warfare and anti-surface vessel (ASV) operations.
Powered by two Shakti engines, the Rudra is an armed variant of the Dhruv ALH and is designed to carry out both utility and attack missions in the battlefield.
The multi-mission helicopter is equipped with forward-looking infrared (FLIR) and thermal imaging sights interface, integrated defensive aids suite (IDAS) with electronic warfare self-protection, anti-tank guided missiles and automatic flight control system to improve the army's aerial firepower capabilities.

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## Black Widow

> HAL to unveil armed Rudra helicopter at Aero India 2013 - Army Technology
> 
> Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is planning to unveil an *armed variant of its Rudra* advanced light helicopter (ALH) at the forthcoming Aero India Exhibition, which is scheduled to be held in February 2013 in Bangalore, India.




Show something new dude, I see this black bird every now and then. It won't be surprise for me...


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## The A-5

^^It will be the completed version this time.

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## IBRIS

It is mandatory for visitors to carry original Govt. issued valid card (Passport, Voter ID, Driving License, Govt ID), photo ID, details of which are provided at the time of online registration, to the venue.

1.Tickets for Aero India 2013 will be sold from selected banks. Details will be intimated later through newspaper advertisements and website.

TIMINGS FOR GENERAL VISITORS :

February 6, 2013 1400 hrs to 1700 hrs
February 7, 2013 1000 hrs to 1700 hrs
February 8, 2013 1000 hrs to 1700 hrs
February 9, 2013 1000 hrs to 1700 hrs
February 10, 2013 1000 hrs to 1700 hrs

2. Entry gates will open one hour before the show timings.

3. Entry will be given against valid photo ID only.

(A) Show your Unique registration ID number
(B) Bring your ID (Passport, Voter ID, Driving License, Govt ID).
(C) Collect your entry pass.

4. All General Visitors will be required to undergo security check. Kindly co-operate.

5. The ticket will be non-transferable

6. Please carry your registration id and / or proof of online payment to facilitate issue of ticket.

7. Food items will not be allowed.

8. Following items will not be permitted: Firearms, weapons, knives (including pocket knives & multi tools), replica or toy weapons, laser pointers, packets of any kind.

9. Free entry for children below 4 years.

10. The Organisers reserve the right to deny access to any individual.

11. Ticket Cost per person per day :

Exhibition Area with Air Display (Valid for all areas excluding chalets &#8211; weekdays) INR 2000/- and US $35
Exhibition Area with Air Display (Valid for all area excluding chalets & ADVA) &#8211; on weekend INR 1000/- and US $30

Here is the website where you can register to attend the event if you are interested.
https://www.aeroindia.in/GeneralVisitorExhibitionRegistration.aspx

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## IBRIS

SCHEDULE OF EVENTS &#8211; AERO INDIA 2013
https://www.aeroindia.in/scheduleofevents.pdf


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## indian_foxhound

Aero India 2013, which is to be held in february from 6th to 10th at the Air Force Station Yelahanka, is
expected to see quite a few aircraft making their
debut at the air show.
So this thread is basically about aircraft makeing debut new contracts etc. Basically everything related to aero india 2013.
For now i know tejas mk1 lps 8 and 
Pilatus IAF PC-7 MkII basic trainer aircraft going to make debut...


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## Abingdonboy

+ DHRUV WSI will be a highlight. I'm also interested in seeing some snaps if the IAF GARUDS. A little disappointed about this aspect of AI 2011, I am told the GARUDS took a much more low key approach and remained more unseen than at previous events. 


I also enjoy the Aero India conference that goes on a few days before the air show- always a good time to get some in-depth info in certain projects. Last edition's highlight for me was the talk by the IN lead test pilot on the LCA program. A very informative and well executed talk on the N-LCA program's upcoming hurdles and milestones. 



+ anyone planning to go?

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## indiatester

Abingdonboy said:


> + DHRUV WSI will be a highlight. I'm also interested in seeing some snaps if the IAF GARUDS. A little disappointed about this aspect of AI 2011, I am told the GARUDS took a much more low key approach and remained more unseen than at previous events.
> 
> 
> I also enjoy the Aero India conference that goes on a few days before the air show- always a good time to get some in-depth info in certain projects. Last edition's highlight for me was the talk by the IN lead test pilot on the LCA program. A very informative and well executed talk on the N-LCA program's upcoming hurdles and milestones.
> 
> 
> 
> + anyone planning to go?



I'm going. Any one planning a meet?

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## Koovie

indiatester said:


> I'm going. Any one planning a meet?



Good to hear that. I also wanted to go, but no one I know wanted to go to Bangalore and I dont want to go alone 

Make some photos and post them here, especially the Garud commandos if you see them

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## indian_foxhound

Abingdonboy said:


> + DHRUV WSI will be a highlight. I'm also interested in seeing some snaps if the IAF GARUDS. A little disappointed about this aspect of AI 2011, I am told the GARUDS took a much more low key approach and remained more unseen than at previous events.
> 
> 
> I also enjoy the Aero India conference that goes on a few days before the air show- always a good time to get some in-depth info in certain projects. Last edition's highlight for me was the talk by the IN lead test pilot on the LCA program. A very informative and well executed talk on the N-LCA program's upcoming hurdles and milestones.
> 
> 
> 
> + anyone planning to go?



Can you enlighten us more?? i mean info which you got.  



indiatester said:


> I'm going. Any one planning a meet?



Yap i m planning to go. Let see. Finger crossed


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## Abingdonboy

indiatester said:


> I'm going. Any one planning a meet?





indian_foxhound said:


> Can you enlighten us more?? i mean info which you got.
> 
> 
> Yap i m planning to go. Let see. Finger crossed




Can you guys click as many pics as possible of the Garud Commandos, LCH and ALH WSI?

+ @indian_foxhound what info would you like sir?


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## indian_foxhound

Abingdonboy said:


> Can you guys click as many pics as possible of the Garud Commandos, LCH and ALH WSI?
> 
> + @indian_foxhound what info would you like sir?



"A very informative and well executed talk on the N-LCA program's
upcoming hurdles and milestones" one this... please. ya ill b putting pics... can you ask mod to convert it into sticky threads



Abingdonboy said:


> Can you guys click as many pics as possible of the Garud Commandos, LCH and ALH WSI?
> 
> + @indian_foxhound what info would you like sir?



Please dont call me sir i m very new and junior

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## Abingdonboy

indian_foxhound said:


> "A very informative and well executed talk on the N-LCA program's
> upcoming hurdles and milestones" one this... please. ya ill b putting pics... can you ask mod to convert it into sticky threads
> 
> 
> 
> Please dont call me sir i m very new and junior


Sir, see for yourself:

from 1h 45-
Video on Demand

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## indian_foxhound

Abingdonboy said:


> Sir, see for yourself:
> 
> from 1h 45-
> Video on Demand



Thank you sir


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## Abingdonboy

indian_foxhound said:


> Thank you sir



No problem mate! Enjoy!



And sir at 19yo I don't think I have quite got to the point in my life where people should call me "sir"!


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## indian_foxhound

The Garud Commando Force is the special forces unit of the Indian Air Force.

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## indian_foxhound




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## indian_foxhound

Now ALH WSI


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## Punjabbi Munda

Abingdonboy said:


> + DHRUV WSI will be a highlight. I'm also interested in seeing some snaps if the IAF GARUDS. A little disappointed about this aspect of AI 2011, I am told the GARUDS took a much more low key approach and remained more unseen than at previous events.
> 
> 
> I also enjoy the Aero India conference that goes on a few days before the air show- always a good time to get some in-depth info in certain projects. Last edition's highlight for me was the talk by the IN lead test pilot on the LCA program. A very informative and well executed talk on the N-LCA program's upcoming hurdles and milestones.
> 
> 
> 
> + anyone planning to go?


Dude,how do you know so much? and you were 'told'?,inner sources? :x
Or are you an Indian govt official in UK by any chance?


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## indian_foxhound

Now LCH


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## indian_foxhound



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## indian_foxhound



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## Abingdonboy

Punjabbi Munda said:


> Dude,how do you know so much? and you were 'told'?,inner sources? :x
> Or are you an Indian govt official in UK by any chance?



Lol, just by piecing together multiple news reports! When I say I was "told" I meant I was told a couple of years back by some members who went to AI '11 and snapped a few pics of GARUDS that they had asked and been told that the GARUDS had been requested to be less overt and less aggressive in their dress and patrolling. 


No mate! I am just a 19yo UK-born (of Indian origin) enthusiast!

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## Koovie

indian_foxhound said:


> The Garud Commando Force is the special forces unit of the Indian Air Force.




Last one is a Marine COmmando


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## indian_foxhound

Koovie said:


> Last one is a Marine COmmando



All are looking damn deadly. Spcly 2nd last one...


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## Punjabbi Munda

Abingdonboy said:


> Lol, just by piecing together multiple news reports! When I say I was "told" I meant I was told a couple of years back by some members who went to AI '11 and snapped a few pics of GARUDS that they had asked and been told that the GARUDS had been requested to be less overt and less aggressive in their dress and patrolling.
> 
> 
> No mate! I am just a 19yo UK-born (of Indian origin) enthusiast!


Haha from the knowledge you exhibit I was mistaking you for a an expert or a diplomat 
But your knowledge is appreciable.

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## Abingdonboy

indian_foxhound said:


>



Looking foreward to updates on the LCH from A1 2013, not heard or seen much about it for a while. Hopefully we get a chance to see the 3rd test vehicle.


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## indian_foxhound

Abingdonboy said:


> Looking foreward to updates on the LCH from A1 2013, not heard or seen much about it for a while. Hopefully we get a chance to see the 3rd test vehicle.



I like the second pic color paint on lch.


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## Abingdonboy

indian_foxhound said:


> I like the second pic color paint on lch.



Yes, that Digicam paint job is ecxellant!


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## sudhir007

Rudra attack version for Aero India 2013 | idrw.org

Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. said it will unveil the long-awaited weaponized version of its Rudra advanced light helicopter at Aero India 2013 next month.

The army will get its first indigenously built Rudra choppers, powered by twin Shakti engines, before the end of the government&#8217;s fiscal year March 31, HAL Chairman R.K. Tyagi told The Times of India newspaper.

&#8220;The combat capability of ALH is enhanced with an electronic warfare suite and counter-measure devices such as flares and chaffs dispensers,&#8221; Tyagi said.

&#8220;Sighting systems such as electro-optical pod and helmet-pointing systems have been integrated to augment target aiming capabilities.&#8221;

The Rudra uses an integrated architecture display system with multifunction displays for the pilot and has weapons such as a 20mm turreted gun, 70mm rockets and air-to-air missiles.

The Rudra &#8212; one of the names of Lord Shiva considered by Hindus as destroyer of enemies &#8212; will be used for airborne assault, logistics support, reconnaissance, casualty evacuation and, thanks to thermal imaging functions, antitank warfare.

The helicopter is based on the utility helicopter Dhruv, also built by HAL in Bangalore.

The Dhruv entered service in 2002 and around 160 are believed to have been ordered by the army and navy, a Press Trust of India report in 2011.

The Dhruv project was announced in 1984 when HAL began designing the aircraft with assistance from the German aerospace company Messerschmitt-Bolkow-Blohm.

The Dhruv helicopter carries up to 12 passenger and two pilots sitting side by side, with a maximum takeoff weight of 12,125 pounds. Maximum speed of 180 mph is from two Shakti turboshaft engines or two Turbomeca TM 333-2B2 turboshaft engines. Service ceiling is around 27,500 feet.

Also to be shown at Aero India 201, and to the public for the first time, will be the Pilatus IAF PC-7 MkII basic trainer, Pilatus Aircraft officials told the Daily News and Analysis website.

&#8220;Deliveries and handover of the first aircraft to the air force will commence in Q1 2013,&#8221; the official is quoted as saying. &#8220;Instructor pilots have already completed their aircraft conversion course in Switzerland (where the aircraft are built) with technician training to be carried out in early 2013.&#8221;

The Pilatus is a direct replacement for the turboprop HPT-32. India has ordered 75 Swiss Pilatus PC-7 MK II aircraft for around $520 million, a report by NDTV television station said.

Until 2009, every pilot &#8212; fighter, transport and helicopter &#8212; started training in the Hindustan Piston Trainer but the HPT-32 was grounded in 2009 after a series of crashes.

Cadets now start straight into operating the Kiran Mk-1, an intermediate jet trainer.

But the two-seat Kiran, which was introduced in 1968, will complete its lifespan by 2015 and will have to be decommissioned, the NDTV report said.

Aero India 2013 will be at Yelahanka Air Force Station, near Bangalore Feb. 6-10.

The last Aero India exhibition, in 2011, had 675 exhibiting companies, of which 380 were from 29 countries.


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## RPK

*Trainer aircraft, UAVs to debut at Aero India*


Aviation aficionados are set to miss the sonic boom of fighter jets as transport aircraft, helicopters, trainers and UAVs (unmanned air vehicles) will steal the show during &#8220;Aero India 2013&#8221; commencing at Air Force Station Yelahanka on February 6.
Among the flying machines set to debut at the five-day show are the Pilatus PB-7 Mk-II basic trainer of Switzerland and weaponised version of Made in India &#8220;Rudra&#8221; helicopter. A low-cost, long-endurance UAV &#8220;ScanEagle&#8221; of Boeing would make its first appearance at the show. Almost all the fighters which performed breath-taking aerobatics at air shows in 2011 and 2009 &#8212; MiG 35 (Russia), F-16 and F/A-18 Super Hornet (USA), JAS-39 Gripen (Sweden), Eurofighter Typhoon and Rafale (France) &#8212; will skip this year&#8217;s event. All of them were in the race for the $ 11.5 billion medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) contract of Indian Air Force (IAF), but will not show up in the latest edition as the IAF picked the Rafale ahead of others in 2011.
Sources in IAF said the Pilatus PC-7 Mk-II basic trainer would fly for the first time over Indian skies at the air show. The IAF has decided to acquire 75 of these trainers produced by Pilatus in Switzerland, followed by an additional 106 to be manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.


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## Jason bourne

Bangalore: Preparations for the 9th edition of International Exhibition on Aerospace, Defence and Civil Aviation (Aero India 2013) have entered the last phase at the Indian Air Force (IAF) base in Yelahanka, Bangalore. In an interview to Express, Air Marshal Rajinder Singh, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Training Command, IAF, said that with barely three weeks left for the show, over 500 air warriors are ready to make the show bigger and better. &#8220;More than 27 countries are participating in the show. In addition, official delegations from 78 countries are expected during the 5-day show, starting on February 6. Our preparations began in September 2012 and the activity levels are at its peak now,&#8221; Rajinder Singh said.

Air Marshal Rajinder Singh
The show-stoppers include the Global 6000; Pilatus PC-7 (IAF's new Basic Trainer Aircraft), the C-130J and the Mi-17 V5 chopper. *&#8220;The Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft, *Chinook and AW-101 helicopters are also participating in the show. This time we have a space pavilion and we are expecting the footfalls to increase , &#8220; he said.
The Air Marshal said that based on his past experience of handling the show, the IAF has refined every SOP (Standard Operating Procedure), including disaster management, fire and aerospace safety. &#8220;The co-ordination meetings with stakeholders have been held to further streamline procedures and professional conduct of the show,&#8221; he said.
He said the IAF would also be showcasing the rapid strides made not only in modernisation of its combat fleet, but its transition from the antique bi-plane -- Tiger Moth (the first trainer aircraft) -- to the ultramodern Pilatus PC-7 Mk II.

Bird menace: With safety being the top priority for IAF, Rajinder Singh said that all out efforts have been made to contain bird activity, creating a conducive flying environment. &#8220;The Karnataka government has taken steps to contain catfish farming in the areas surrounding Yelahanka. We will also undertake bird reconnaissance sorties and have regular inputs from the Ornithology Cell, that studies bird habitats on airfields and surrounding areas to further reduce the bird menace,&#8221; he said.
Security: He said the anti-hijack, anti-terror and mass casualty evacuation are already place. &#8220;The security grid will be bolstered with Special Forces. Personnel from the NDRF, CISF, RAF and Karnataka government are closely associated with the plans. Various SOPs will be tested for their efficacy prior to show,&#8221; Rajinder Singh said.

http://tarmak007.blogspot.in/2013/01/iaf-gears-up-to-make-aero-india-better.html?m=1

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## Abingdonboy

Unlikely IMHO, I could be wrong though. I would have thought France/Dassualt would be sending a Rafale or two, I'd be a little dissapointed if the Rafale wasn't at AI- a bit of a slap in the fact,no? Also I'd have liked to see the AH-64E, I hope the IN brings one of their MIG-29Ks. Next AI I guess we'll see the IAF's C-17 and IN's P-8I also.


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## Jason bourne

Heard "Swifts" and "Russian Knights" will Perform in AI 2013


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## Koovie

Jason bourne said:


> Heard "Swifts" and "Russian Knights" will Perform in AI 2013



Russian Knights would be great.

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## anant_s

> He said the IAF would also be showcasing the rapid strides made not only in modernisation of its combat fleet, but its transition from the antique bi-plane -- Tiger Moth (the first trainer aircraft) -- to the ultramodern Pilatus PC-7 Mk II.



A small collage depicting the journey of IAF Trainers


*De Havilland Tiger Moth*






*HAL HT-2*





*Percival Prentice*





*Texan T-6C*






*PZL TS-11 Iskra*





*HJT 16 Kiran MkII*





*HPT-32 Deepak*






*BAE Hawk*

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## Abingdonboy

Jason bourne said:


> Heard "Swifts" and "Russian Knights" will Perform in AI 2013


It's a shame that Surya Kiran was disbanded. Am looking forward to the day the teams flies in their new BAE HAWKS!

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## faithfulguy

When most countries have air shows, they are trying to sell their planes to foreign countries. Indian Airshow is uniquely different in that its for vendors to come and pitch their hardware to India or show that they had sold something to India.

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## Abingdonboy

faithfulguy said:


> When most countries have air shows, they are trying to sell their planes to foreign countries. Indian Airshow is uniquely different in that its for vendors to come and pitch their hardware to India or show that they had sold something to India.



This is BS, it's a two-way street. The Paris airshow is the biggest in the world is this because the French aviation industry is the largest on earth? At Aero India 2013 there will be many international participants but also domestic participants showing off the likes of the ALH,ALH WSI,LCA,LCH etc



You need to look past your anti-India outlook, you're adding nothing positive to this site.

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## &#347;&#363;nya_0_Zero

Abingdonboy said:


> You need to look past your anti-India outlook, you're adding nothing positive to this site.



Quite true, going by some of this guy's other posts I read in other threads.

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## faithfulguy

Abingdonboy said:


> This is BS, it's a two-way street. The Paris airshow is the biggest in the world is this because the French aviation industry is the largest on earth? At Aero India 2013 there will be many international participants but also domestic participants showing off the likes of the ALH,ALH WSI,LCA,LCH etc
> 
> 
> 
> You need to look past your anti-India outlook, you're adding nothing positive to this site.



You are right about India showing off the domestic weapons. Its a political tool. So the show has two purposes, for foreign firms to sell weapons to India and other foreign countries in the region. And for India to show off its achievements to the domestic press to gain political standing for whoever in charge.

As for Paris airshow, its especially for French vendors to sell planes to foreign visitors, though its vendors from other countries to display and sell their stuff as well. Its definitely not for foreign vendors to sell planes to Frances, unlike the Indian air show.


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## Abingdonboy

faithfulguy said:


> You are right about India showing off the domestic weapons. Its a political tool. So the show has two purposes, for foreign firms to sell weapons to India and other foreign countries in the region. And for India to show off its achievements to the domestic press to gain political standing for whoever in charge.


Right, because India has not made a SINGLE foreign sale of an Indian aviation product? 




faithfulguy said:


> As for Paris airshow, its especially for French vendors to sell planes to foreign visitors, though vendors for other countries to sell as well. Its definitely not for foreign vendors to sell planes to Frances, unlike the Indian air show.



Right, so the Rafale is selling like hot cakes? And the French have never bough ANY foreign aviation products? 


Please, you people like to deal in generalisations and sweeping remarks but things aren't so simple or so clean cut. Every airshow has similar motivations.

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## Icewolf

I highly doubt FGFA main compartments is even finished when Tejas is still doin test flights


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## faithfulguy

Icewolf said:


> I highly doubt FGFA main compartments is even finished when Tejas is still doin test flights



I hope that the lesson India learned is that it should focus more on fundamental research first and forget about making a jet fighter until its domestic metallurgical, electronics, engine and aerospace industry is a little more mature. In the mean time, focus on just purchasing planes from others. It need to decouple the needs of its air force from the capabilities of its domestic aerospace industry.



Abingdonboy said:


> Right, because India has not made a SINGLE foreign sale of an Indian aviation product?



I won't say not a single one, but can you post all the major sales of India's aviation products in the recent years?


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## janon

It won't be the FGFA, it will be the PAK-FA that participates. Not a single prototype of FGFA has taken to the skies yet. So it is unlikely that one will fly in an airshow.


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## faithfulguy

Abingdonboy said:


> Right, so the Rafale is selling like hot cakes? And the French have never bough ANY foreign aviation products?
> 
> 
> Please, you people like to deal in generalisations and sweeping remarks but things aren't so simple or so clean cut. Every airshow has similar motivations.



Rafael is definitely not selling well. But its clear that the target customer of the foreign vendors in the Indian Airshow is the Indian arm force. All other customers are secondary. This is not the case with all other air shows. So Indian air show is unique in that way. As for similar motivations, I would agree with you. Everyone wants to make money.


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## Abingdonboy

faithfulguy said:


> I won't say not a single one, but can you post all the major sales of India's aviation products in the recent years?



Mate, this is hard to do as HAL is not a government controlled entity there is a high degree of secrecy relating to sales and developments.


Briefly- Ecuador,Nepal,Maldives,Burma, Mauritius, Suriname and Bolivia have bought the ALH (in pretty small numbers though- 4-5 units apiece). 

Additionally HAL has sold HAL-produced DO-228,Chetaks and Cheetahs to many nations in the IOR and Africa.

Yes it is very modest (particuarly because HAL has pathetic marketing depth and because HAL's product range is very limited),-but it is a start.



faithfulguy said:


> Rafael is definitely not selling well. But its clear that the target customer of the foreign vendors in the Indian Airshow is the Indian arm force. All other customers are secondary. This is not the case with all other air shows. So Indian air show is unique in that way. As for similar motivations, I would agree with you. Everyone wants to make money.



Not just India but the entire Asian/M.East region. Aero India is the largest airshow in Asia and one of the largest on earth. Why is the EFT coming to Aero India 2013 when it has already been ruled out of entering Indian service? Eurofighter GmbH say themselves it is to showcase the fighter to the S.Asian/M.East markets.

Aero India is not unique-it is a showcase for everyone for the world.


But let's be honest, India is the biggest weapon importer on the planet does it not make sense for the world's arm manufacturers to come to Aero India year after year?

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## conworldus

I think the OP meant T-50/PAKFA right? The FGFA is still on paper.

Anyways, any confirmation?


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## surya kiran

conworldus said:


> I think the OP meant T-50/PAKFA right? The FGFA is still on paper.
> 
> Anyways, any confirmation?



Pak-FA not FGFA


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## Koovie

*3 Rafales To Star At AeroIndia 2013* 







*I can now confirm that 3 Dassault Rafale fighters will fly in for Aero India 2013, kicking off on February 6 at the IAF's Yelahanka base. Two will be on air display duties and the third, a special static display.
*
This year's show, unlike the last two in 2009 and 2011, is expected to be a decidedly fighter-less one, with the MMRCA competition now down to contract negotiations with France. You know you're in for a pretty flat show when one of the highlights is a Pilatus PC-7 Mk.2 prop trainer. There's no word yet on what else exhibitors will be bringing to fly, though I'm hearing the USAF may fly in a C-17 like they did last year. Also hearing that the Russians might bring in their MiG-29 display team.
Livefist: 3 Rafales To Star At AeroIndia 2013

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## Skull and Bones

They could have brought P-8s and PAK FA.


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## Ajaxpaul

Yay.....The most beautiful plane on display.

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## Koovie

Skull and Bones said:


> They could have brought P-8s and PAK FA.



I guess the navy has better things to do with it than putting it on the Yelahanka AF base. Same goes for the Russians, I mean we will get the first prototype next year and we can then do with it what we want.


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## arp2041

Skull and Bones said:


> They could have brought *P-8s* and PAK FA.



Buddy, IN's personnel are undergoing a training program on P-8Is in the US, i think it will reach India by march-April this year, so why just see a trailer when we can see entire film?? 

Besides I don't think AI consists of naval platforms.

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## arp2041

May be 1 each of Rafale B (twin seater), Rafale C (single seater) & Rafale M, makes sense.

@sancho @Abingdonboy

I want to know how having fighters & other ac on display in AI effect the sales of them?? as you know that IAF selects them on technical & cost parameters not on there looks, so what sense advertisements make here?? they are not selling it to common public, they are selling it to a highly efficient & no nonsense force like IAF. So why so much hype over AI when MMRCA was on & not now when the contract has been given??


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## ashok321

arp2041 said:


> Buddy, IN's personnel are undergoing a training program on P-8Is in the US, i think it will reach India by march-April this year, so why just see a trailer when we can see entire film??
> 
> *Besides I don't think AI consists of naval platforms*.



What do you mean by (ABOVE bold) that?


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## JanjaWeed

wow.. these Rafales are having real busy schedule off late. Libya campaign, Mali campaign, Aero India show... looks like busiest fighter aircraft in the world..

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## Abingdonboy

arp2041 said:


> May be 1 each of Rafale B (twin seater), Rafale C (single seater) & Rafale M, makes sense.
> 
> @sancho @Abingdonboy
> 
> I want to know how having fighters & other ac on display in AI effect the sales of them?? as you know that IAF selects them on technical & cost parameters not on there looks, so what sense advertisements make here?? they are not selling it to common public, they are selling it to a highly efficient & no nonsense force like IAF. So why so much hype over AI when MMRCA was on & not now when the contract has been given??



As I'm sure you know Aero India, being the largest airshow in Asia and one of that test in the world, attracts visitors from all over and especially Asia. As the Western defence market is in steep decline and the Asian is steeply growing so it makes sense to use opportunities like AI to show of your products to the world and especially Asia. You are right that now proffesional military selects equipment in looks but on technical and cost grounds however events like Aero India give an excellent opportunity for the various delegations from countries around the world to interact with the manufacturers and operators (French AF/Navy) aswell as to see the product up close. Even though the EFT is out if the Indian MMRCA completion the Europeans are still bringing the bird to Aero India and they have admitted this is for the benefit of the Asian and M.East markets. 

France/Dassault also seems to be giving India a BIG thank you!

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## Abingdonboy

arp2041 said:


> Besides I don't think AI consists of naval platforms.



In the past the IN has showcased certain a/c at AI- the Sea Harrier and IL-38SD for instance.


The main reason the P-8I won't be at AI 2013 is because it is still in US with IN crews training on it. When the P-8I hasn't even touched down in India yet how can it participate in AI? The IN aren't a bunch of show-offs who would disrupt their training regime and delay the P-8I's operational readiness just to take part in an airshow. Maybe at AI 2015 the P-8I can make an appearance (they can park it alongside the IAF's C-17).


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## Paan Singh

dubara aagya rafale


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## RoYaL~GuJJaR

Any Lucky ones on this forum who will visit Aero India 2013 ?


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## kurup

Military ties on mind, Beijing set to attend Aero India show

Beijing is likely to send a team for the Aero India show being held in Bangalore next month after an invitation was sent to the Chinese Air Force chief by the IAF. While it is unclear if the officer will attend, a senior-level delegation is expected to come.

The mega event attracts prominent aerospace companies of the world.

The invite comes amid indications that Beijing is reaching out to New Delhi and wants a new kind of engagement. It marks a change from 2011 when India had excluded China from the event but had sent out a last-minute invitation to its embassy in New Delhi. At the time, military relations were at a low over the denial of a visa to an Indian lieutenant general, as he was commanding troops in Jammu and Kashmir.

However, that seems to be a thing of the past with India going all out to ensure a cordial atmosphere at Aero India for the visit.

A detailed note is said to have been prepared to ensure that there was no discomfiture on account of the Taiwanese participation. So while Taiwan-based companies are welcome, they will be participating in their individual capacity and not as part of a national delegation. Neither will the name of Taiwan as a nation be allowed to be mentioned at individual stalls, nor will its flag or national anthem figure anywhere.

There is an assessment that China is reaching out to India given its recent engagement on the eastern side, including the island disputes.

After the recent visit of Defence Secretary Shashikant Sharma to Beijing, Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Hong Lei spoke of building &#8220;new type of military to military relations featuring lasting stability and friendly cooperation&#8221;. After the meeting, the Chinese spokesperson termed military relations between the two countries as an &#8220;important indicator of the depth of the bilateral cooperation&#8221;.

A joint army war game is also expected this year after a gap of almost four years.

Military ties on mind, Beijing set to attend Aero India show | idrw.org

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## Cherokee

Will Taking photographs be allowed ? If that's the case i can come to Bangalore on Saturday or Sunday .

If anyone from Bangalore interested ping me . 

And i also offer drinks


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## SajeevJino

*Russian Knights perform in Aero India 2013*


admin.strizhi.info/

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## DeMoN_HuNteR

kab shru hoga Aero india???


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## sancho

arp2041 said:


> May be 1 each of Rafale B (twin seater), Rafale C (single seater) &* Rafale M*, makes sense.
> 
> @sancho @Abingdonboy
> 
> I want to know how having fighters & other ac on display in AI effect the sales of them?? as you know that IAF selects them on technical & cost parameters not on there looks, *so what sense advertisements make here*?? they are not selling it to common public, they are selling it to a highly efficient & no nonsense force like IAF. So why so much hype over AI when MMRCA was on & not now when the contract has been given??



Doubtful, they won't take the costs and send fighters from Europe to India, but from their base in the UAE, which means it will be air force versions.
It's a good will gesture, Dassault was actually the only vendor in the competition that refused to go the PR way for the public, with Rafale attending AI only shortly before the downselection. But don't forget that not only civilians will visit AI, but also politicians, IAF personell, reporters and VIPs that could convince others according to their likes. Remember the investigation about Rafales win, after a nonsense complain from a politician that has no clue about the fighters at all? That's where PR plays a role and in a country like India, with a high corruption rate, it makes even sense.


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## bangbros

DeMoN_HuNteR said:


> kab shru hoga Aero india???



february 6 for public, ticket price 1000rs

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## Paan Singh

RoYaL~GuJJaR said:


> Any Lucky ones on this forum who will visit Aero India 2013 ?



i will visit 



















































through youtube videos

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## ashok321

> Besides I don't think AI consists of naval platforms.


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...les-star-aero-india-2013-a.html#ixzz2IarAt8AS

Why does a Aircraft like P-8I require specially a naval platform to fly?
Besides, have you seen any Naval platform in any air show or aviation exhibition?.
Look before you leap.
Stupido.....


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## bangbros

riCoh said:


> I got the tIcket today....yay..
> kaun kaun aa raha hai Sunday ko ????


 did u got it by online or through banks


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## anant_s

Koovie said:


> *3 Rafales To Star At AeroIndia 2013*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I can now confirm that 3 Dassault Rafale fighters will fly in for Aero India 2013, kicking off on February 6 at the IAF's Yelahanka base. Two will be on air display duties and the third, a special static display.
> *
> This year's show, unlike the last two in 2009 and 2011, is expected to be a decidedly fighter-less one, with the MMRCA competition now down to contract negotiations with France. You know you're in for a pretty flat show when one of the highlights is a Pilatus PC-7 Mk.2 prop trainer. There's no word yet on what else exhibitors will be bringing to fly, though I'm hearing the USAF may fly in a C-17 like they did last year. Also hearing that the Russians might bring in their MiG-29 display team.
> Livefist: 3 Rafales To Star At AeroIndia 2013



This perhaps is the most emphatic confirmation that deal is progressing well.



> Also hearing that the Russians might bring in their MiG-29 display team.


Again would love to See Russian Knights & Swifts in Action.


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## Jason bourne

Beijing is likely to send a team for the Aero India show being held in Bangalore next month after an invitation was sent to the Chinese Air Force chief by the IAF. While it is unclear if the officer will attend, a senior-level delegation is expected to come.

The mega event attracts prominent aerospace companies of the world.

The invite comes amid indications that Beijing is reaching out to New Delhi and wants a new kind of engagement. It marks a change from 2011 when India had excluded China from the event but had sent out a last-minute invitation to its embassy in New Delhi. At the time, military relations were at a low over the denial of a visa to an Indian lieutenant general, as he was commanding troops in Jammu and Kashmir.

However, that seems to be a thing of the past with India going all out to ensure a cordial atmosphere at Aero India for the visit.

A detailed note is said to have been prepared to ensure that there was no discomfiture on account of the Taiwanese participation. So while Taiwan-based companies are welcome, they will be participating in their individual capacity and not as part of a national delegation. Neither will the name of Taiwan as a nation be allowed to be mentioned at individual stalls, nor will its flag or national anthem figure anywhere.

There is an assessment that China is reaching out to India given its recent engagement on the eastern side, including the island disputes.

After the recent visit of Defence Secretary Shashikant Sharma to Beijing, Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Hong Lei spoke of building &#8220;new type of military to military relations featuring lasting stability and friendly cooperation&#8221;. After the meeting, the Chinese spokesperson termed military relations between the two countries as an &#8220;important indicator of the depth of the bilateral cooperation&#8221;.

A joint army war game is also expected this year after a gap of almost four years.


http://www.indianexpress.com/news/m...ijing-set-to-attend-aero-india-show/1062298/0

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## dee

Beijing is likely to send a team for the Aero India show being held in Bangalore next month after an invitation was sent to the Chinese Air Force chief by the IAF. While it is unclear if the officer will attend, a senior-level delegation is expected to come.

The mega event attracts prominent aerospace companies of the world.

The invite comes amid indications that Beijing is reaching out to New Delhi and wants a new kind of engagement. It marks a change from 2011 when India had excluded China from the event but had sent out a last-minute invitation to its embassy in New Delhi. At the time, military relations were at a low over the denial of a visa to an Indian lieutenant general, as he was commanding troops in Jammu and Kashmir.

However, that seems to be a thing of the past with India going all out to ensure a cordial atmosphere at Aero India for the visit.

A detailed note is said to have been prepared to ensure that there was no discomfiture on account of the Taiwanese participation. So while Taiwan-based companies are welcome, they will be participating in their individual capacity and not as part of a national delegation. Neither will the name of Taiwan as a nation be allowed to be mentioned at individual stalls, nor will its flag or national anthem figure anywhere.

There is an assessment that China is reaching out to India given its recent engagement on the eastern side, including the island disputes.
After the recent visit of Defence Secretary Shashikant Sharma to Beijing, Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Hong Lei spoke of building new type of military to military relations featuring lasting stability and friendly cooperation. After the meeting, the Chinese spokesperson termed military relations between the two countries as an important indicator of the depth of the bilateral cooperation.

A joint army war game is also expected this year after a gap of almost four years.

Military ties on mind, Beijing set to attend Aero India show - Indian Express


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## Koovie

Good to hear that relations are warming up again!


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## nithin

I can smell some raid on Japanese islands pretty soon.. such surreptitious variety of divide and rule is typical chinese when it comes to dealing with surrounding countries visa vi land grabbing with force. 

I am not paranoid. But looking at everything from a global perspective here. We should respect chinese for what looks like a sincere effort to mend ties both at diplomatic and military levels which nevertheless should not put a shadow on our strategic relationship with Japan and Rest of South East asian countries.

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## IND151

(Press Release | Unedited)
*The Defense Minister Shri AK Antony would inaugurate the Ninth Edition of Aero India on 06 February 2013 at Air Force Station Yelahanka in Bangalore.*
Organised by Department of Defence Production this biennial event provides a significant platform for Indian and Foreign vendors. *The five day show aims at promoting products and services being offered by Indian Defence Industry in the International Market and providing exposure to the Armed Forces, R & D personnel to the latest Aviation and Aerospace Industry.*
While Aero India 2011 saw the participation of exhibitors from 29 countries with more than 675 companies and 47 overseas delegations accommodated over the gross exhibition area of 75,000 Sqm, the* Ninth Edition *of this* International Aerospace Exhibition *is expected to see the *participation* of* over 600 companies* and* 78 overseas delegations *accommodated over an *approximate area *of *1,25,000 Sqm.* The* largest overseas participation* is seen from *USA* with indoor space occupied being *1,185 sqm *followed by *Israel* and* Russia.* Other major participants are France, UK, Germany and Belgium, Bulgaria, Italy, Ukraine, Australia, Belarus, Czech Republic, Japan, Norway, South Africa, Spain, Switzerland, Austria, Brazil, Canada, Netherlands, Romania, Sweden, UAE and Singapore.
The event would also see the participation of aerobatic teams  Flying Bulls from Czech Republic, Russian Knights-Russian Air Force Aerobatic Team and IAFs Sarang Aerobatic Team.
The first edition of Aero India was held in December 1996 with an objective to provide significant platform for business opportunities in the International Aviation sector as well as to exhibit capabilities of Indian Defences R & D and Production. Being a biennial event subsequent editions were held in 1998, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2009 and 2011. While a modest 176 companies participating in the second edition of Aero India in 1996, the event in its Ninth Edition of 2013 is expected to feature over 600 companies.
More than 78 official delegations are expected to attend the four day exhibition with many products expected to be launched by Indian and Foreign Companies during the exhibitions. Several Business to Business meetings are planned to be held on the sidelines. The Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI) is the Event Manager of Aero India 2013.

http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rc...DDP4xV23YiSQkfcoIr6tNMA&bvm=bv.41248874,d.bmk

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## nithin

Yayyyy .... if I don't get those weekend deadlines in ofc, I would go there and post some pics here.

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## Koovie

I wished I could go to Bangalore


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## Koovie

nithin said:


> I can smell some raid on Japanese islands pretty soon.. such surreptitious variety of divide and rule is typical chinese when it comes to dealing with surrounding countries when it comes to land grabbing with force.
> 
> I am not paranoid. But looking at everything from a global perspective here. We should respect chinese for what looks like a sincere effort to mend ties both at diplomatic and military levels which nevertheless should not put a shadow on our strategic relationship with Japan and Rest of South East asian countries.



China is more important to us than Japan. This CHina vs Japan thing is too complicated and goes back for +70 years, thats not of our business.

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## Paan Singh

Koovie said:


> China is more important to us than Japan. This CHina vs Japan thing is too complicated and goes back for +70 years, thats not of our business.



Both cant be ignored by india.

To facilitate nuke deal,we need japanese help.They make some very critical components and no body else can make so

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## IND151

Aero India-2013 to begin at Bangalore Feb 6 | idrw.org


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## Soumitra

Just registered for Aero India 2013.

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## karan.1970

Would be so awesome if India buys a squad of J 10 Bs or J 11 from China ahead of Pakistan

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## Rafi

Would love the thunder to give a display in the enemy's home ground.

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## Rajaraja Chola

Speeder 2 said:


> that's a wonderful news for india , coz beijing might decide to bring in-door pumping technologies to india, with attractive TOT if indians behave!!



Boring without some troll contents like u  
Y beijiing is not getting enough $ from copycats? 

Between good diplomacy yet again by india

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## Bhai Zakir

When Money talks, everybody walks


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## Rafi

The_magnificent said:


> Who is WE ? China took over pakistan ? AFAIK Pak is not Invited in AERO INDIA



Did I hurt your feelings, that was not my intention - don't take it to heart.


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## The_magnificent

Rafi said:


> Did I hurt your feelings, that was not my intention - don't take it to heart.



Rafi you know very well it is not gonna hurt anyone when some pakistani Claiming he is Invited in AERO India. I ain't that sissy. but it is hilarious to see how Pakistaniz are adopting Chinese Identity and claiming thr Invite as yours. 

May be someday , but if you will try this time You may end up like pakistani cricketers in IPL

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## Rafi

The_magnificent said:


> Rafi you know very well it is not gonna hurt anyone when some pakistani Claiming he is Invited in AERO India. I ain't that sissy. but it is hilarious to see how Pakistaniz are adopting Chinese Identity and claiming thr Invite as yours.
> 
> May be someday , but if you will try this time You may end up like pakistani cricketers in IPL



I have been to india many times, have seen her sights, and indulged in her many varied delights , also done some work that helps my country. But I digress the Chinese are our allies - so why would we not be happy at their progress, as we also benefit from this.

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## Ayush

a positive development for both the countries.


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## The_magnificent

Rafi said:


> I have been to india many times, have seen her sights, and indulged in her many varied delights , also done some work that helps my country. But I digress the Chinese are our allies - so why would we not be happy at their progress, as we also benefit from this.



Twisting the words again. This is not being happy. This is simple cheer leading. You are saying we are invited in AEro India. You know very well you are associating your invite with China. 

I know some guys visit parties with friends on thr invite.  .


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## SwAggeR

Rafi said:


> I have been to india many times, have seen her sights, and indulged in her many varied delights , also done some work that helps my country..



Same here buddy.I have also been to your country and indulged in...... and seen sights of your so called pure land.

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## Babbar-Khalsa

nithin said:


> I can smell some raid on Japanese islands pretty soon.. such surreptitious variety of divide and rule is typical chinese when it comes to dealing with surrounding countries visa vi land grabbing with force.
> 
> I am not paranoid. But looking at everything from a global perspective here. We should respect chinese for what looks like a sincere effort to mend ties both at diplomatic and military levels which nevertheless should not put a shadow on our strategic relationship with Japan and Rest of South East asian countries.


 Ok guys ....you may not agree with me ..but i think China is all not that bad :-

1. There have been cases of trespassing ...but they dont fire guns .

2. They dont send terrorists ...or dogs i should say .

3. They dont behead soldiers and mutiliate bodies .

4. They try to refrain from any strong remarks .

5. They may have many ifs and buts with us ....but they dont wrestle with us .

Seriously speaking guys ........being buddhists ..they are much more silent and peaceful than India's neighbours at west and east.

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## WHITESMOKE

Babbar-Khalsa said:


> Ok guys ....you may not agree with me ..but i think China is all not that bad :-
> 
> 1. There have been cases of trespassing ...but they dont fire guns .
> 
> 2. They dont send terrorists ...or dogs i should say .
> 
> 3. They dont behead soldiers and mutiliate bodies .
> 
> 4. They try to refrain from any strong remarks .
> 
> 5. They may have many ifs and buts with us ....but they dont wrestle with us .
> 
> Seriously speaking guys ........being buddhists ..they are much more silent and peaceful than India's neighbours at west and east.



Well, if you go by Chinese actions and behaviour, you will observe they want to prove the world that they are superior to them or atleast equal. Its all about the hurting from Japanese and British. I would say China did a mistake by attacking India in 1962, as because of this, instead of having a good and strong friend on one side of the border, they have now a suspicious neighbour. 
Instead of growing smoothly and then taking on world, China started everything in one go. Look arround and see how big mess they have created. They might not be bad, but they are taking "Chinese Ego" stuff too seriously and we had a history of 1962 too. We can handle Pakistan in a surprising war easily but sleeping while turning the back towards China can have much worse result this time.

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## sarthak

Rafi said:


> Would love the thunder to give a display in the enemy's home ground.



It will be extremely funny to say the least, considering the fact that the country who made it (China) hasn't bought a single unit of its beautiful creation.


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## Kaniska

I think our media is reading too much our of this token gesture..To be honest...apart from Pakistan, India and China can work with each other inspite of being hostile to each other...And apart from that China consider India as nuisance rather than enemy to match their caliber...But China and Japan rivallry has some history behind it...

So the bottom line is that if China and Japan rows heats up...China may say some sugar coated gesture to focus itself with Japan...Till that point they will just play around with India....


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## indian_foxhound

@WebMaster can we merge all the aero india thread into this one or this to any other good thread lots of thread going on side by side.. Lots of bandwit getting wasted of members. Thanks

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## kurup

Aero India 2013 to Be a Low-Key Affair

Absence of foreign fighter aircraft and reduced number of participating companies are likely to make the ninth edition of the biennial Aero India show a low-key affair.

Addressing a press conference on the Aero India show, Secretary (Defence Production) R K Mathur claimed the ninth edition of the show in Banglaore was expected to be "bigger and better" than the previous ones.

*However, ministry officials said the number of aircraft who have confirmed participation in the show is 52 this year so far while 63 aircraft had come in 2011.

The number of companies who have booked space at the show is 607 while 675 took part in the last edition*.

Asked which of the six medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) aircraft, which have been main attractions of the aero show, are coming in this edition, *Mathur said only the French Rafale and American F-16 have confirmed their participation till now*.

The six aircraft including American F/A-18 and F-16, Russian MiG 35, Swede Saab Gripen, French Rafale and the European Eurofighter were regular at the last three editions of the show in view of the the then multi-billion dollar tender for 126 aircraft by the IAF.

However, after the contract was bagged by Rafale, other aircraft were not expected to be at the show in this edition. 

Mathur maintained the show is "not MMRCA centric". "

"The highlights of the show would include the *participation of three aerobatic display teams including the Czech Red Bulls team, the Russian 'Russian Knight' team comprising the Su-27 combat aircraft and IAF's ALH Dhruv Sarang helicopter display team*," he said.

The largest contingent at the show would be from the US with 67 of its companies participating followed by France, Russia and Israel.

Asked if China has confirmed its participation, Mathur said, "China has been invited for the show as a formal letter has been sent to them and we are awaiting their confirmation from them about their participation."

A total of 78 countries would be sending their representatives at the aero show of which 27 would be showcasing their products at the mega event.

Aero India 2013 to Be a Low-Key Affair


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## hurt

WHITESMOKE said:


> I would say China did a mistake by attacking India in 1962, as because of this, instead of having a good and strong friend on one side of the border, they have now a suspicious neighbour.


nehru had only themselves to blame.

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## sudhir007

Aero India to miss its chief attraction combat aircraft - Brahmand.com

Three aerobatic display teams are expected to be the main attraction for the biennial Aero India show starting February 6, which appears to be a scaled down affair with many a combat aircraft giving it a miss following finalisation of a multi-billion dollar IAF deal.

Addressing a press conference on the Aero India show, Secretary (Defence Production) R K Mathur claimed the ninth edition of the show in Banglaore was expected to be "bigger and better" than the previous ones.

Howver, ministry officials said the number of aircraft who have confirmed participation in the show is 52 this year so far while 63 aircraft had come in 2011. The number of companies who have booked space at the show is 607 while 675 took part in the last edition.

Asked which of the six medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) aircraft, which have been main attractions of the aero show, are coming in this edition, Mathur said only the French Rafale and American F-16 have confirmed their participation till now.

The six aircraft including American F/A-18 and F-16, Russian MiG 35, Swede Saab Gripen, French Rafale and the European Eurofighter were regular at the last three editions of the show in view of the then multi-billion dollar tender for 126 aircraft by the IAF.

However, after the contract was bagged by Rafale, other aircraft were not expected to be at the show in this edition.

Mathur maintained the show is "not MMRCA centric". "The highlights of the show would include the participation of three aerobatic display teams including the Czech Red Bulls team, the Russian 'Russian Knight' team comprising the Su-27 combat aircraft and IAF's ALH Dhruv Sarang helicopter display team," he said.

The largest contingent at the show would be from the US with 67 of its companies participating followed by France, Russia and Israel.

Asked if China has confirmed its participation, Mathur said, "China has been invited for the show as a formal letter has been sent to them and we are awaiting their confirmation from them about their participation."

A total of 78 countries would be sending their representatives at the aero show of which 27 would be showcasing their products at the mega event.

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## kurup

Lockheed Martin eyes for win-win partnerships at Aero India







The C-130J Super Hercules in IAF colours will be Lockheed Martin's star product at the show, in addition to the F-16s.


Bangalore: A 20-member team from American plane-maker Lockheed Martin (LM) will touchdown in Bangalore for the Aero India-2013, hoping for new opportunities in aerospace and defence sector. As they get down to business hours in the cozy comforts of air show pavilions, the Indian Air Force (IAF) pilots will take the newly-inducted mammoth LM-built beast &#8211; the C-130J Super Hercules turbo-prop military transport aircraft&#8212; on a date, displaying its cool flying features.
In an interview to Express on Wednesday, Abhay Paranjape, Director, Business Development, Lockheed Martin National Executive, India, said that this time his team is hitting Bangalore with multiple agenda. &#8220;Meeting potential customers, suppliers and expanding our relationship with Indian industries tops our mission. We are definitely looking to expand our presence in India, especially after the induction of C-130Js,&#8221; Abhay said. He said the LM team also hopes to establish win-win partnerships, in addition to identifying potential suppliers, to fulfil Ministry of Defence's offset policy.
He confirmed that the talks for the IAF acquiring additional six more C-130Js have reached advanced stages. &#8220;The IAF has given a letter of request for additional six aircraft based on which a letter of acceptance was issued. The modalities are being worked out by both Indian and US governments. The discussions are in potentially final stages,&#8221; Abhay said. The IAF No 77 Squadron already operates six C-130Js. 
For the flying display, there won't be any aircraft from the LM's side this time. However, the US Air Force would be bringing the F-16s. When asked about the slowdown in the aerospace sector, Abhay said: &#8220;It is still growing, may be not at the rate it was. We see India as a growing market.&#8221;
Wants to work with DRDO on UAVs: Lockheed Martin says it has expressed interest for joining hands with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for India's future unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) programmes. &#8220;We have recently exhibited our expertise by joining hands with Delhi Technological University and gave expertise for student to develop a UAV. We are willing to work with DRDO for various urban UAV programmes. If DRDO is desring then we would work together for some really exciting UAV projects,&#8221; Abhay said.

Copyright@The New Indian Express

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: Lockheed Martin eyes for win-win partnerships at Aero India

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## kurup

Post-deliveries Textron looks forward to Aero India








As reported by SP&#8217;s earlier, the Indian Air Force recently began taking delivery of Textron Defense CBU-105 sensor fuzed munitions for its Jaguar jets. The company has announced its participation in Aero India 2013, taking place from February 6-10 at Air Force Station Yelahanka.

To mark Textron&#8217;s first big military sale to India with customers and partners, Textron Systems&#8217; new president and chief executive officer, Ellen Lord, will be present at the show. Lord, who was named CEO in October 2012, previously served as senior vice president and general manager of Textron Defense Systems.&#8220;_Aero India 2013 is a wonderful opportunity to discuss emerging requirements, and engage with potential customers on how Textron Systems&#8217; products and solutions can best meet them,&#8221;she said. &#8220;Textron Systems has established strong relationships with the Indian government, armed forces and security agencies, as well as industry partners, and we are vested in growing that presence even more. Key industry meetings like Aero India 2013 and our ongoing activities as part of the larger Textron enterprise, including Textron India Private Limited, are critical to achieving that goal._&#8221;

Post-deliveries Textron looks forward to Aero India | idrw.org

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## peep

kurup said:


> Lockheed Martin eyes for win-win partnerships at Aero India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The C-130J Super Hercules in IAF colours will be Lockheed Martin's star product at the show, in addition to the F-16s.
> 
> 
> Bangalore: A 20-member team from American plane-maker Lockheed Martin (LM) will touchdown in Bangalore for the Aero India-2013, hoping for new opportunities in aerospace and defence sector. As they get down to business hours in the cozy comforts of air show pavilions, the Indian Air Force (IAF) pilots will take the newly-inducted mammoth LM-built beast &#8211; the C-130J Super Hercules turbo-prop military transport aircraft&#8212; on a date, displaying its cool flying features.
> In an interview to Express on Wednesday, Abhay Paranjape, Director, Business Development, Lockheed Martin National Executive, India, said that this time his team is hitting Bangalore with multiple agenda. &#8220;Meeting potential customers, suppliers and expanding our relationship with Indian industries tops our mission. We are definitely looking to expand our presence in India, especially after the induction of C-130Js,&#8221; Abhay said. He said the LM team also hopes to establish win-win partnerships, in addition to identifying potential suppliers, to fulfil Ministry of Defence's offset policy.
> He confirmed that the talks for the IAF acquiring additional six more C-130Js have reached advanced stages. &#8220;The IAF has given a letter of request for additional six aircraft based on which a letter of acceptance was issued. The modalities are being worked out by both Indian and US governments. The discussions are in potentially final stages,&#8221; Abhay said. The IAF No 77 Squadron already operates six C-130Js.
> For the flying display, there won't be any aircraft from the LM's side this time. However, the US Air Force would be bringing the F-16s. When asked about the slowdown in the aerospace sector, Abhay said: &#8220;It is still growing, may be not at the rate it was. We see India as a growing market.&#8221;
> Wants to work with DRDO on UAVs: Lockheed Martin says it has expressed interest for joining hands with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for India's future unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) programmes. &#8220;We have recently exhibited our expertise by joining hands with Delhi Technological University and gave expertise for student to develop a UAV. We are willing to work with DRDO for various urban UAV programmes. If DRDO is desring then we would work together for some really exciting UAV projects,&#8221; Abhay said.
> 
> Copyright@The New Indian Express
> 
> Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: Lockheed Martin eyes for win-win partnerships at Aero India



iske andar ghuske photo kheech sakte hai kya ? Tab toh pukka ja raha hun mai..


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## kurup

US Arms Sales To India On The Increase








The US is steadily muscling into the lucrative Indian defence market, giving jitters to traditional arms suppliers like Russia, Israel, France and the UK. Having already notched up arms sales worth $8 billion to India in the last few years despite continuing problems over transfer of &#8220;sensitive&#8221; technology, it&#8217;s aiming to corner much more with the Obama-II administration now taking charge in Washington.

The huge interest in India, which will spend over $100 billion in acquiring weapon systems over the next decade, is evident from the fact that as many as *67 American armament and aviation companies will be hawking their wares in the 9th edition of Aero-India* to be held in Bangalore from February 6 to 10.

Union defence production secretary R K Mathur on Monday said *607 companies, including 352 foreign ones, and 78 official delegations from various countries have already confirmed their participation in the air-show that would be &#8220;bigger and better&#8221; than the previous editions.

After the US companies, the largest participation will be from France with 49 firms, followed by the UK (33), Russia (29), Germany (22), Israel (18) and Belgium (16).*

True, the buzz generated in earlier editions, with global aviation majors jostling to grab the $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project to supply 126 fighters to IAF, will be missing after India down-selected the French Rafale jet for the final commercial negotiations.

US Arms Sales To India On The Increase | idrw.org


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## 帅的一匹

will china be able to attend the aero India 2013?


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## IndianArmy

wanglaokan said:


> will china be able to attend the aero India 2013?



China has been Invited If I am not wrong. Not sure if they are coming.


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## 帅的一匹

Last time we are banned.



IndianArmy said:


> China has been Invited If I am not wrong. Not sure if they are coming.


I mean why not? A better chance let the whole world know better about our weapon system.


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## IndianArmy

wanglaokan said:


> Last time we are banned.
> 
> 
> I mean why not? A better chance let the whole world know better about our weapon system.



Indeed but the Indian MoD is yet to receive a response from Beijing

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## 帅的一匹

Any big deal expected to be signed on the airs how by IAF?


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## kam83

wanglaokan said:


> Last time we are banned.
> 
> 
> I mean why not? A better chance let the whole world know better about our weapon system.



I Think Your Friendship with pakistan has come into play here.....it might be that you Don't want to Upset ur second biggest customer


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## Yeti

China will be attending Aero India 2013 a senior-level delegation is expected to come.


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## shree835

bangbros said:


> february 6 for public, ticket price 1000rs



Categories Acess Area Rate 
Business Visitor Ticket Valid Form: February 6-8,2013 Exhibition Area Only INR 2000/USD 35 
General Visitor Ticket Valid Form :February 6-8,2013 ADVA Area Only INR 400/USD 15 
General Visitor Ticket Valid Form :February 9-10,2013 ADVA Area Only INR 500/USD 20 
General Visitor Ticket Valid Form :February 9-10,2013 Exhibition Area Only INR 1000/USD 30 

*I went for 2000 INR Ticket that will Include Exhibition Area with Air Display.*



wanglaokan said:


> Any big deal expected to be signed on the airs how by IAF?



*Cannot tell you ...This is confidential.*


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## shree835

hurt said:


> nehru had only themselves to blame.



Off Topic:
You cannot forget Mao... was also equally responsible culprit&#8230;.Mao wanted to regain his hold on China , CPC and Army&#8230;.This was the reason behind attack.


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## bangbros

dude but it says 
Exhibition Area with Air Display (Valid for all areas excluding chalets &#8211; weekdays) INR 2000/- and US $35 
Exhibition Area with Air Display (Valid for all area excluding chalets & ADVA) &#8211; on weekend INR 1000/- and US $30


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## Koovie

wanglaokan said:


> Any big deal expected to be signed on the airs how by IAF?



unlikely, if you are referring to the MMRCA deal, the French Presidents visit next month might be it.



wanglaokan said:


> will china be able to attend the aero India 2013?



China has been invited. But no idea about the response.

India invites Chinese delegation to Aero India air show
By Rahul Bedi

1/23/2013

India has invited China to the 2013 Aero India air show in Bangalore in early February after tensions between the neighbours over disputed borders have eased and bilateral military relations improved.

Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne sent an invitation to his Chinese counterpart in early January, although R K Mathur, the MoD's secretary of defence production, told reporters in New Delhi on 21 January that the ministry had yet to receive a response from Beijing.

Industry sources said the MoD was adamant that a Chinese delegation attending the show would in no way be "embarrassed" by participating Taiwanese defence companies, and no Taiwanese flags or national anthem would be allowed at the venue.

Diplomatic sources told IHS Jane's that India anticipated a "senior" Chinese military delegation visiting Bangalore after the successful conclusion of the fifth bilateral Annual Defence Dialogue in Beijing on 14 January. The two-day deliberations between tri-service delegations headed by Indian Defence Secretary Shashikant Sharma and Lieutenant General Qi Jianghuo, deputy chief of staff of the People's Liberation Army, confirmed the resumption later this year of joint military exercises that terminated acrimoniously in 2009.

188 of 348 words
http://www.janes.com/products/janes/defence-security-report.aspx?id=1065975438



shree835 said:


> *Cannot tell you ...This is confidential.*



oh oh oh I cant wait


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## The A-5

wanglaokan said:


> Any big deal expected to be signed on the airs how by IAF?



No big foreign deal to be signed.

But they'll be many new stuff to be unvielled -

Production-grade variant of Rudra helicopter-gunship
First official wind-tunnel model of IAF FGFA
and a new rocket-powered laser-guided bomb developed by DRDO,

these are among the things Im looking forward for.


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## kurup

*BEL to showcase its R&D capabilities at Aero India*






BEL products to be displayed at AeroIndia-2013: Tablet, Radar Finder, Rugged Laptop, Software Defined Radio, Wrist Wearable Computer


Bangalore: Navratna Defence PSU Bharat Electronic Limited (BEL) will showcase its R&D capabilities at Aero India 2013 by displaying its latest range of products and systems, developed in-house, at the 9th International Exhibition on Aerospace, Defence & Civil Aviation to be held at Air Force Station Yelahanka, Bengaluru from February 6 to 10, 2013.

The main highlight of BEL&#8217;s display will be Network Centric Warfare (NCW) systems developed indigenously for the Indian defence forces. NCW solutions for the Navy will include Combat Management System, which automates tactical data from the ship&#8217;s sensors to provide decision support to the ship&#8217;s Command. BEL&#8217;s display will also include cutting-edge technology based C4I systems catering to all the 3 Services &#8212; like computing elements in various forms, right from wrist-wearable computers, hand-held computers and Tablet PC to rugged laptop; communication equipment such as Software Defined Radio with different variants, HF Radios, Stars V MK III, Militarized WiMAX besides encryptors such as Terminal End Secrecy Device (TESD), IP Encryptor and Bulk Encryptor. 

Research and Development has been BEL&#8217;s core competency. The Company is laying increased thrust on development of new technology modules which will be on show at the exhibition such as Microwave Power Modules and TR Modules for use in radars, MEMs-based products for use in sonars, microwave components used in air-borne EW systems and simulator for Akash Missile System, Upgraded Indigenous Forward Observer Simulator, & simulator for Weapon locating Radar. The key elements for underwater solutions which will be on show will be HUMSA test bed with transducers and Expendable Decoys for ships and submarines.

BEL will highlight its contributions to the Electronic Warfare and Avionics segment with an impressive display of the Multi Sensor Warning System, Missile Approach Warning Systems, Convoy Jammers, Light Weight ESM System, Radar Finger Printing System and other cockpit modules for Light Combat Aircraft. Also on display will be the latest range of laser products, Laser Dazzler Gun, Laser-Based Communication LOS (Line of Sight), passive night vision products and NATO batteries. 

The highlight of BEL&#8217;s outdoor display will be the entire range of sub-systems that constitute Integrated Akash Missile System, the indigenous guided missile air defence weapon system; Portable Low-Level Air Defense Radar, Weapon Locating Radar and EMP Shelter.

Indian Defence News - BEL to showcase its R&D capabilities at Aero India

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## Black Widow

I personally not in favour of PLA member attending Indian air show. The Western and Indian security can be compromised... I remember one incident where Chinese engineers (Telecom) caught stealing Information from competitors... 


Big no to chinese.. I am visiting Show.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Black Widow said:


> I personally not in favour of PLA member attending Indian air show. The Western and Indian security can be compromised... I remember one incident where Chinese engineers (Telecom) caught stealing Information from competitors...
> 
> 
> Big no to chinese.. I am visiting Show.



 How about PLA in disguise ?

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## Black Widow

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> How about PLA in *disguise *?




Its well known that China belong to CCP and PLA. Its open secret... The companies either run by CCP/PLA or puppet...


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Black Widow said:


> Its well known that China belong to CCP and PLA. Its open secret... The companies either run by CCP/PLA or puppet...



Irrelavant statement, isn't that so obvious?  I'm wondering myself what will interesting toys of Inda 2013 that we evil commies will spy? C-17, Apache? we could brough some ideas to further improve our Y-20 and wZ-10...I just hope that they won't came back China empty handed.


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## hurt

Black Widow said:


> I personally not in favour of PLA member attending Indian air show. The Western and Indian security can be compromised... I remember one incident where Chinese engineers (Telecom) caught stealing Information from competitors...
> 
> 
> Big no to chinese.. I am visiting Show.



air show not only in india
List of air shows - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## rcrmj

Black Widow said:


> I personally not in favour of PLA member attending Indian air show. The Western and Indian security can be compromised... I remember one incident where Chinese engineers (Telecom) caught stealing Information from competitors...
> 
> 
> Big no to chinese.. I am visiting Show.



lol, funny kid``what stuff that we'd acutally interested from India? your Indian Areo 2013 is just like your clownish parade, which is a show of imported rip-off weapons

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## Black Widow

Son, I don't want to argue you and other chinese, Arguing you guys will give me ban, while you guys will enjoy the privilege membership...


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## Koovie

Black Widow said:


> I personally not in favour of PLA member attending Indian air show. The Western and Indian security can be compromised... I remember one incident where Chinese engineers (Telecom) caught stealing Information from competitors...
> 
> 
> Big no to chinese.. I am visiting Show.




Utter BS. Stay away with your trolling.

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## 帅的一匹

Next time India company shall attend Zhuhai airshow in return.



Black Widow said:


> Son, I don't want to argue you and other chinese, Arguing you guys will give me ban, while you guys will enjoy the privilege membership...


lots of trolling Chinese member also got banned like , it's a fair game for the Mod.

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## trident2010

Why is the problem if china is attending. I am very happy to see they are coming. Chinese don't need Indian airshow to get the technology. They can get it where ever they want. I would be more interested if China bring J-10 to perform in India.

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## sancho

trident2010 said:


> Why is the problem if china is attending. I am very happy to see they are coming. Chinese don't need Indian airshow to get the technology. They can get it where ever they want. I would be more interested if China bring J-10 to perform in India.



I would be interested to see J10 too, but I doubt China would show it since they will fear to release important infos to potential opponents too (not only India, but Japan, S. Korea, US...) and they are surely not interested in Indian techs, but there will be a lot of foreign techs as well and we have to have a check on the security of these vendors as well.


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## Koovie

trident2010 said:


> Why is the problem if china is attending. I am very happy to see they are coming. Chinese don't need Indian airshow to get the technology. They can get it where ever they want. I would be more interested if China bring J-10 to perform in India.



^^ Agree, J10 performing @ AI would be indeed very cool.


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## Abingdonboy

trident2010 said:


> Why is the problem if china is attending. I am very happy to see they are coming. Chinese don't need Indian airshow to get the technology. They can get it where ever they want. I would be more interested if China bring J-10 to perform in India.



AFAIK there is a ban on Chinese products being showcased at AI.

Shame- would be cool to see the J-10 lined up against a MKI or Rafale. Would be kind of like when the USSR took a MIG-29 to the French Air Show during the Cold War. 


+Not that India and China are in a Cold war type scenario!


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Seriously, I'm wondering what is China interest to attent to this show since we're not there to promote our products.


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## farhan_9909

i hope they bring JFT to aero india


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## acetophenol

Black Widow said:


> I personally not in favour of PLA member attending Indian air show. The Western and Indian security can be compromised... I remember one incident where Chinese engineers (Telecom) caught stealing Information from competitors...
> 
> 
> Big no to chinese.. I am visiting Show.



that was absolutely unnecessary. Your comment looks stupid too. We should look forward in building a good relationship with china for our own good.

IMO,Chinese aerobatics team should be invited in the absence of our own surya kirans. A few years back surya kirans performed in china.



farhan_9909 said:


> i hope they bring JFT to aero india



Me too! I would love to see JFT in Aero India.



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Seriously, I'm wondering what is China interest to attent to this show since we're not there to promote our products.



Building a good relationship perhaps.

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## Yeti

Not a big deal in China attending it is a international event and even Indian members attended the IDEAS 2012 in Pakistan and had a nose around on many Pakistani weapons systems.


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## sudhir007

Hermes 900 at Aero India 2013 | idrw.org







Israel&#8217;s Elbit Systems has announced that it will display its new generation Hermes 900 Maritime Patrol UAS at Aero India 2013. The Indian Navy, as is well known, is in the global market for maritime medium altitude long endurance unmanned surveillance air vehicles. According to Elbit, &#8220;Interactively controlled from mobile land based mission systems, fixed operation rooms or own force ships, Hermes® 900 provides multi-sensor data and live video in real time to mission operators and ship crews at sea.

Hermes® 900 UAS can operate stand alone or can be integratedin to an overall setup of aircraft, ships, shore or offshore based sensors, and maritime control centers and HQ. Hermes® 900 can perform versatile missions such participation in Naval warfare (SSW), Ship-Shore operations, EEZ monitoring & control, Coastal protection, Surveillance & protection of vital assets (such as oil rigs), anti-piracy operations, environmental monitoring, and search & rescue operations.&#8221;

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## Yeti

Few of them to safeguard our coast of which we have much of would not be a bad idea they have multi-usage features


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## IND151

*Israeli missile-maker Rafael will display at Aero India 2013, for the first time, it's 'game changer', the Iron Dome active defence system *against short-range artillery rockets, most notably deployed during the November 2011 hostilities between Israel and Palestine. *The Iron Dome will be part of an elaborate outside display of the full portfolio of the company's air and missile defence systems. *(Of course, Rafael is unlikely to ever live down this timelessly ridiculous PR video they released for the Indian market at the 2009 show).

The company's outer display will also include David's Sling multi-platform interceptor system, the SpyDer SR/MR and the entire Spike family of tactical guided missiles.

Livefist: 'Combat-proven' Iron Dome At Aero India 2013

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## ManuZ

In my opinion India does not need Iron Dome...Too expensive...
And we dont face threats similar to that of Israel....
We r developing our own missile shield..in the long that would be enough..


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## DANGER-ZONE

*MODS* plz move it to http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/228397-aero-india-2013-a-13.html. 
and avoid posting separate threads related to Aero India 13.


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## IamINDIA

Aero India2013 thread started in 2011 0_o


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## kurup

IamINDIA said:


> Aero India2013 thread started in 2011 0_o



Looks like some mod merged the 2013 Aero India thread with Aero India 2011 thread and hence the confusion..............


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## IND151

Livefist: Ahead Of Debut Firepower Demo, Tejas At Aero India


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## kurup

Maini Group To Unveil Expansion Plan At Aero India

The Maini Group, a key Indian defence company, has announced that it would be sharing details regarding its expansion plans at the Aero India 2013 to be held at Yelahanka air base in Bangalore from February 6 to 10.

The group has acquired industrial land in preparation for its expansion of plant facilities and is concentrating on long-term aerospace and defence strategic plans spanning the next two decades. For this purpose, it is currently in talks with global and domestic aerospace leaders in order to explore the right opportunities, the company said here.

The Maini Group has set its eyes on growth in the Indian aerospace industry, which is expanding rapidly at an exponential rate. The company will be participating and exhibiting its products at Aero India 2013.

The group also announced that Maini Precision Products Private Limited (MPP) has achieved a unique distinction in India in 2012 by becoming a direct sub-tier partner with two global aerospace prime contractors, supplementing its already impressive list of customers, who are the global who-is-who of aerospace domain.

MPP has been steering its aerospace aspirations through Maini Global Aerospace (MGA). 

"MGA is associated with global majors as direct suppliers and also to a host of global aerospace leaders like Snecma, Eaton, Magellan, Marshall, Parker, Avio, GE, MTU, HAL, SnecmaHAL and Hamilton Sundstrand. The MGA strategy is to grow up the value chain in the domains of aerospace parts manufacture such as aero-structures, precision and aero-engine parts and aircraft systems," according to Naresh Palta, Chief Executive Officer of MGA.

MGA is also one of the few selected Indian Offset Partners (IOP) with global aerospace majors. Having already commenced supplies against offset programmes, the MGA team has recently begun the manufacture of mechanical parts for space applications.

The Maini Group also enters its fourth decade of industrial build up in 2013. From its modest beginning of manufacturing precision components and assemblies for the automotive, hydraulic, material handling and engineering industry by its flagship company MPP, the group has grown to become a six-company entity.

Widely known for its innovative and revolutionary electric car 'REVA' and eco-friendly material handling solutions, the group diversified into aerospace activities in 2005 by manufacturing precision machined parts for the Snecma's widely used CFM 56 engines.

It will maintain a high focus on leveraging its diverse strength in design, manufacture, innovation, integration, international joint ventures, strategic alliances, and technology absorption to propel itself as a strong aerospace and defense entity, the company added. 

The Group, founded in 1973, with a single company has grown to a multi-unit Group of six companies with over 1500 employees spread over 14 locations. The Maini Group is one of India's premier design and manufacturing entities. While the manufacturing base is in India, warehousing and marketing networks extend across more than 25 countries with well over 50 per cent of turnover exported to over several international customers.

Apart from Aerospace, Maini Group also has plans to diversify into defense land systems. The recent acquisition and launch of Tomcar all-terrain vehicle at Defence Expo at Delhi in March 2012 is aimed at tapping the Indian defence and paramilitary organisations' needs.

The award winning eco-friendly airfield support vehicles manufactured by another group company, Maini Materials Movement Private Limited (MMM), are now in use with the various defense establishments and airline operators across India.

Maini Group To Unveil Expansion Plan At Aero India


U.S., France Top Participants in Aero India

NEW DELHI &#8212; The United States will continue to top the list of participants at Aero India 2013, the biannual aero show at Bangalore being held from Feb. 6-10. U.S. participation has increased from 63 companies in the 2011 show to 67 this year, followed by 49 participants from France, 33 from the United Kingdom and 29 from Russia.

However, Germany has slashed its participation from 43 companies in 2011 to 22 in 2013.

In all, 607 companies, including 352 foreign, and 78 official national delegations have confirmed their participation in the show, said an Indian Defence Ministry official.

The value of the Indian defense market is estimated to jump from the projected $100 billion to $150 billion in the next seven to 10 years because the country has to prepare to fight China and Pakistan simultaneously, says Nitin Mehta, a defense analyst.

Show highlights are expected to be the display of the Indo-Russian Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) and the homemade weaponized version of the Advance Light Helicopter Mark-4. Among the static displays will be the homemade Light Combat Aircraft and the Rustom and Nishant UAVs.

Unlike 2011, when the focus was on the $11 billion Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) program, this year&#8217;s interest will be on the FGFA, which could see a potential order of $25 billion from the Indian Air Force. However, the roadmap of work participation in the FGFA has still to be finalized.

India&#8217;s Hindustan Aeronautics and Russia&#8217;s Rosoboronexport and Sukhoi Design Bureau will jointly develop and produce the FGFA, which is based on Russia&#8217;s T-50 aircraft, prototypes of which are already fighting.

In November of 2011, the Pentagon told the U.S. Congress that it was prepared to offer the Joint Strike Fighter to India. New Delhi, however, has not responded to the offer and Defence Ministry officials have said the MoD will go ahead with the Russian FGFA.

India contracted for Boeing&#8217;s C-17 Globemaster transporter last year, and the Pilatus PC-7 Mark-2 basic trainer, contracted from Switzerland, will fly at the show. The Indian Defence Ministry is considering acquiring additional C-17s beyond the 10 already contracted for at a cost of $4.1 billion last year.

The Indian Air Force plans to induct more than 350 fighter jet aircraft by the end of the decade, including 126 from the MMRCA program, more than 160 new Russian-made Su-30 MKIs and over 140 homemade Light Combat Aircraft.

http://www.defensenews.com/article/...310023/U-S-France-Top-Participants-Aero-India

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## SpArK

*Aero India 2013: Over 600 companies confirm participation*

New Delhi, Feb 1: With five days to go for the Aero India 2013 airshow, 607 companies that includes 352 foreign and 78 official national delegations, have confirmed their participation in the show. *Reflecting the growing defence cooperation between India and US, the participation from the US has seen an upswing with 67 companies (63 came in 2011) coming to Bangalore this month.
While the previous edition of the airshow was stolen by the buzz over selection of $11 billion contract for Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), the 2013 was about Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA).*


Even though the Indian government is yet to come out clearly on the FGFA programme, there is already strong lobbying for the $25 billion deal. It has always been understood that Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd and Russia's Rosoboronexport and Sukhoi Design Bureau will jointly develop and produce the FGFA, based on Russia's T-50 aircraft, the US has indicated its interest way back in 2011.
In fact, on display will be Indo-Russian FGFA and the homemade weaponized version of the Advance Light Helicopter Mark-4.
Other countries showcasing their products are France (49 participants), United Kingdom (33), Russia (29) and Germany showing a bit reduced interest with 22 companies participation.


India will display homemade Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) and the Rustom and Nishant UAVs. Seen at the show will be Boeing's C-17 Globemaster transporter and the Pilatus PC-7 Mark-2 basic trainer from Switzerland. India has signed deals with these companies to buy these aircraft. The country may additional C-17s from the 10 already contracted for at a cost of $4.1 billion.
The Indian Air Force plans to induct more than 350 fighter jet aircraft by the end of the decade and thus the airshow will be of huge interest to the defence sector in India.


Aero India 2013: Over 600 companies confirm participation - Oneindia News


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## sudhir007

EMB-145 I AEW&CS to be showcased in Aero India 2013 ,flight trials to commence soon: CABS | idrw.org






After missing two opportunities to fly public for the first time in a span of last four months, India&#8217;s yet-to-be-named prying plane &#8211; the Airborne Early Warning & Control System (AEW&CS) &#8211; is likely to make its maiden appearance at the Aero India 2013, starting next week. Scientists and engineers at the Centre for Air Borne Systems (CABS), a Bangalore- Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) lab, which has developed home-grown systems for the plane, are currently involved in the ground checks of the aircraft, to ascertain the safe operation of the mission and aircraft systems, together. The Embraer-built (EMB-145 I) AEW&CS platform did not fly during the Indian Air Force Day celebrations at Hindon last October 8, and even during the recent Republic Day parade in Delhi. 
Talking to Express on Wednesday, DRDO Chief Controller (Avionics) G Elangovan said that in all probability the prying plane will hit Yelahanka for its first public flying appearance. &#8220;It will be a great morale booster for CABS and other aerospace firms who are part of the AEW&CS programme. As of now, the plane will have the company of three Tejas aircraft, which again is subject to changes. It will be flying at the air show with actual radars and mission systems,&#8221; Elangovan said.
When asked whether any of the features of the plane will be activated during its display flights at the show, Elangovan said that none of the mission-oriented systems will be operational. &#8220;We haven&#8217;t got that clearance yet and it would take some more time. At Aero India all the systems will be switched-off, during the flight. Right now the EMI (electromagnetic interface) and EMC (electromagnetic compatibility) tests are going on,&#8221; he said.
CABS Director Dr S Christopher confirmed that the AEW&CS will soon be ready for its flight trials. The first aircraft arrived in Bangalore from Brazil in August 2012 followed by the second one in December 2012. &#8220;The indigenous mission systems, developed by the various DRDO labs have been installed in the aircraft. The systems have been powered on in ground and their basic functioning ascertained. One set of these systems are undergoing test in the integration rig simultaneously. Once the ground-check mission parameters are established, the next step will be to take up the flight trials of the AEW&CS,&#8221; Christopher said.
He said that the eye-in-the-sky platform would soon commence its intense phase of flight-testing and system-proving validating compliance, to meet the operational requirements. &#8220;On completion of these trials the two aircraft will be handed over to the IAF. The installation of the mission systems in the second aircraft also is being carried out parallelly. It will be a significant moment for us when the plane files during Aero India,&#8221; Christopher added.


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## sudhir007

EADS on a high for Aero India 2013 | idrw.org






With the Airbus A330 MRTT win in India&#8217;s tanker competition, EADS will be riding into Aero India with a long-missed feel good factor coursing through its veins&#8212;the win comes after a string of disappointments in India, particularly last years loss of the Eurofighter in the MMRCA competition. In a statement, the company says, &#8221;Airbus Military is promoting its very successful C295/C235 transport aircraft in India for future competitions. Airbus Military also is the manufacturer of the A400M military transport aircraft, a heavy airlifter which on the long term could provide ideal capabilities for a country like India.&#8221;

EADS subsidiary Cassidian also has long-term plans it will detail at Aero India. &#8221;In the past few years, Cassidian created several partnerships with organizations such as the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) which build a solid basis to expand the cooperation with Indian aerospace and defence companies. India plays a key role in Cassidian&#8217;s globalization strategy. Our presence there has now been firmly established. As a next step, Cassidian is starting to build on its Indian base to strengthen its reach in other Asian markets,&#8221; the company says. EADS&#8217; rotorcraft subsidiary Eurocopter enters India at a tentative time: On the one hand, for the 3rd consecutive year, Eurocopter India leads the Indian helicopter market with a market share of 43% in terms of registered deliveries. On the other, it continues to anxiously await a decision in the long delayed reconnaissance and surveillance helicopter (RSH) competition that could see it, if it wins, supply 197 AS550 C3 Fennec choppers to the Indian Army and IAF. The company will also be showcasing its AS565 N3+ Panther chopper on offer to the Indian Navy and Coastguard.


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## sudhir007

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: Boeing to showcase Insitu's ScanEagle, Integrator UAV features at Aero India














Bangalore: ScanEagle and Integrator &#8211; two versatile unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) from the hangars of Insitu -- a wholly owned independent operating subsidiary of Boeing, will be at the Aero India 2013. With an eye to capture the potential market for surveillance platforms in India, Boeing is exhibiting full-size models of these UAVs for the first time in India, which are proven and now flying with armed forces of many nations.
The ScanEagle platform, designed for autonomous land and maritime field operations, is capable of being launched from anywhere and posses longer endurance. The Integrator retains key ScanEagle features like small system footprint, long endurance, autonomy, stabilized imagery, shipboard launch and recovery, low observable signature, and hub-and-spoke operation. It even has capacity to employ a mix of larger payloads, for longer periods, in austere conditions.
&#8220;Scan Eagle can deliver the highest quality data possible to tactical decision-makers and is ideal for Indian conditions. We feel India requires high performance, low-cost unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) for intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) requirements. Be it the harsh and fast-paced operating environments of land and sea combat, we believe Insitu&#8217;s ScanEagle and Integrator platforms offer India ISR capability for different missions,&#8221; Dennis Swanson, Vice-President, Boeing Defence, Space and Security, India, told Express.
He said ScanEagle has logged more than seven years of uninterrupted service with the US Department of Defence customers. It was first deployed in-theater under a services contract with the US Marine Corps in 2004, and with the US Navy in 2005. &#8220;The UAV is now deployed with military forces in the United States, Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, Malaysia, Poland and Singapore,&#8221; he said.
Though originally designed to track fish populations, these UAVs are engineered to withstand extreme environmental stresses of a maritime environment. &#8220;In June 2012, ScanEagle exceeded 6,00,000 combat flight hours, maintaining a 99 per cent mission-readiness rate. Integrator uses the same interoperable launch and recovery system designs that have been used since 2004 in combat and other extreme environments, attaining nearly 100 per cent mission availability,&#8221; Dennis said.

* ScanEagle Specs*
Performance 
&#8226; Endurance: 24+ hours 
&#8226; Ceiling: 19,500 ft / 5,944 m 
&#8226; Max horizontal speed: 80 knots / 41 m/s 
&#8226; Cruise speed: 48 knots / 25 m/s 
*System features *
&#8226; Propulsion: 1.9 hp (1.4 kw), 2-stroke engine 
&#8226; Fuel: Gasoline (100-octane, unleaded, non-oxygenated gas) or heavy fuel (JP5, JP8, Jet-A) 
&#8226; Navigation: GPS / inertial 
&#8226; Launch: Pneumatic catapult 
&#8226; Recovery: SkyHook wing tip capture 
*Dimensions *
&#8226; Wingspan: 10.2 ft / 3.11 m 
&#8226; Length: 4.5 ft / 1.37 m 
*Weights *
&#8226; Empty structure weight: 28.8 lb / 13.1 kg 
&#8226; Max takeoff weight: 44.0 lb / 20.0 kg
*AIS for maritime domain awareness *
&#8226; Heavy fuel engine with 28 hours endurance 
&#8226; Hush engine for reduced acoustic signature 
&#8226; Mid-wave IR sensor for Increased nighttime resolution 
&#8226; Mode C transponder for aircraft deconfliction 
&#8226; ROVER support 

*Intergrator Specs*
*Performance *
&#8226; Endurance: 24 hours 
&#8226; Ceiling: >15,000 ft / 4,573 m 
&#8226; Max horizontal speed: 80+ knots / 41.2+ m/s 
&#8226; Cruise speed: 55 knots / 28.3 m/s 
*Payload integration *
&#8226; Payload electrical power: 350 W 
&#8226; Payload data interface: Industry-standard Ethernet 
*Dimensions* 
&#8226; Wingspan: 16 ft / 4.8 m 
&#8226; Length: 7.2 ft / 2.2 m 
*Weights* 
&#8226; Empty structure weight: 80 lb / 34.0 kg 
&#8226; Fuel limit: 47 lb / 18.6 kg 
&#8226; Payload bay limit: 37 lb (combined) / 17.0 kg 
&#8226; Payload bay: 35 lb / 15.9 kg 
&#8226; Nose bay: 15 lb / 6.8 kg 
&#8226; Hardpoint (each): 15 lb / 6.8 kg 
&#8226; Outboard wing (each): 3 lb / 1.4 kg 
&#8226; Max takeoff: 135 lb / 61.2 kg 
Standard sensor package 
&#8226; Electro-optic 
&#8226; Long-wave infrared 
&#8226; Mid-wave infrared 
&#8226; Infrared Marker* 
&#8226; Laser rangefinder*

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## JanjaWeed

*Northrop Grumman Focuses on Global ISR Capabilities at Aero India 2013*

LONDON  Feb. 2, 2013  Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE:NOC) will highlight its industry-leading range of capabilities in intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) including airborne early warning and control systems for maritime reconnaissance and unmanned aerial vehicles, at the Aero India 2013 exhibition and air show.

Aero India, organised by the Defence Exhibition Organisation, takes place at Air Force Station Yelahanka, Bengaluru, India, Feb. 6-10. The Northrop Grumman exhibit is at stand number E1.14 in exhibition hall E.

"ISR capability is critical to effective homeland security and our leadership in multiple-domain ISR strongly positions Northrop Grumman to help create solutions for India's defence modernisation," said Mary Petryszyn, vice president, International, Northrop Grumman Aerospace Systems. "We are excited to offer our core capabilities to advancing Indian naval, military and homeland security priorities."

The Northrop Grumman exhibit will showcase the company's world-leading capabilities in airborne early warning and control including the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye.

The E-2D Advanced Hawkeye programme couples a newly designed electronically scanned radar with a matching suite of sensors, avionics, processors, software and displays to provide the most technologically advanced command and control capability available worldwide. The AN/APY-9 radar, with a two-generation leap in capability, is the backbone of this aircraft and provides greater flexibility and significantly improved detection and tracking over all terrains. To date, Northrop Grumman has delivered nine E-2D Advanced Hawkeye aircraft to the U.S. Navy. The programme completed Initial Operational Test and Evaluation in 2012 and Initial Operational Capability in the U.S. Navy fleet is on schedule for 2015.

An E-2D Advanced Hawkeye crew workstation and flyable cockpit simulator will be included on the exhibit stand to demonstrate the benefits of the E-2D for military and civil applications. India is among the first countries for which the Advanced Hawkeye capability has been approved by the U.S. government.

The company's airborne surveillance capabilities will be highlighted with the MQ-4C Triton unmanned aircraft and the lighter-than-air Long Endurance Multi-Intelligence Vehicle (LEMV).

Triton is a maritime version of the combat-proven Global Hawk unmanned aircraft system. Developed for the U.S. Navy, Triton can fly missions for 24 hours at altitudes more than 10 miles, allowing the system to cover vast areas of ocean and coastal regions. The Navy developed its future concept for maritime patrol using Triton in conjunction with the P-8 Poseidon, a manned surveillance platform that has also been purchased by the Indian Navy. Northrop Grumman produces the AN/ALQ-240(V)1 Electronic Support Measures system, the early warning self-protection system, and the embedded global positioning and inertial navigation system for the P-8A. 

Northrop Grumman is developing the LEMV long-endurance hybrid airship system for the U.S. Army. This system is designed to be optionally manned, providing the flexibility to operate with or without a crew onboard and offers persistent surveillance with reconfigurable payloads to meet emerging multimission needs. The first fight of the LEMV was successfully completed in August 2012.

Northrop Grumman is a leading global security company providing innovative systems, products and solutions in unmanned systems, cyber security, C4ISR, and logistics and modernization to government and commercial customers worldwide.

Northrop Grumman Focuses on Global ISR Capabilities at Aero India 2013 NYSE:NOC

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## Abingdonboy

JanjaWeed said:


> *Northrop Grumman Focuses on Global ISR Capabilities at Aero India 2013*
> 
> LONDON &#8211; Feb. 2, 2013 &#8211; Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE:NOC) will highlight its industry-leading range of capabilities in intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) including airborne early warning and control systems for maritime reconnaissance and unmanned aerial vehicles, at the Aero India 2013 exhibition and air show.
> 
> Aero India, organised by the Defence Exhibition Organisation, takes place at Air Force Station Yelahanka, Bengaluru, India, Feb. 6-10. The Northrop Grumman exhibit is at stand number E1.14 in exhibition hall E.
> 
> "ISR capability is critical to effective homeland security and our leadership in multiple-domain ISR strongly positions Northrop Grumman to help create solutions for India's defence modernisation," said Mary Petryszyn, vice president, International, Northrop Grumman Aerospace Systems. "We are excited to offer our core capabilities to advancing Indian naval, military and homeland security priorities."
> 
> The Northrop Grumman exhibit will showcase the company's world-leading capabilities in airborne early warning and control including the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye.
> 
> The E-2D Advanced Hawkeye programme couples a newly designed electronically scanned radar with a matching suite of sensors, avionics, processors, software and displays to provide the most technologically advanced command and control capability available worldwide. The AN/APY-9 radar, with a two-generation leap in capability, is the backbone of this aircraft and provides greater flexibility and significantly improved detection and tracking over all terrains. To date, Northrop Grumman has delivered nine E-2D Advanced Hawkeye aircraft to the U.S. Navy. The programme completed Initial Operational Test and Evaluation in 2012 and Initial Operational Capability in the U.S. Navy fleet is on schedule for 2015.
> 
> An E-2D Advanced Hawkeye crew workstation and flyable cockpit simulator will be included on the exhibit stand to demonstrate the benefits of the E-2D for military and civil applications. India is among the first countries for which the Advanced Hawkeye capability has been approved by the U.S. government.
> 
> The company's airborne surveillance capabilities will be highlighted with the MQ-4C Triton unmanned aircraft and the lighter-than-air Long Endurance Multi-Intelligence Vehicle (LEMV).
> 
> Triton is a maritime version of the combat-proven Global Hawk unmanned aircraft system. Developed for the U.S. Navy, Triton can fly missions for 24 hours at altitudes more than 10 miles, allowing the system to cover vast areas of ocean and coastal regions. The Navy developed its future concept for maritime patrol using Triton in conjunction with the P-8 Poseidon, a manned surveillance platform that has also been purchased by the Indian Navy. Northrop Grumman produces the AN/ALQ-240(V)1 Electronic Support Measures system, the early warning self-protection system, and the embedded global positioning and inertial navigation system for the P-8A.
> 
> Northrop Grumman is developing the LEMV long-endurance hybrid airship system for the U.S. Army. This system is designed to be optionally manned, providing the flexibility to operate with or without a crew onboard and offers persistent surveillance with reconfigurable payloads to meet emerging multimission needs. The first fight of the LEMV was successfully completed in August 2012.
> 
> Northrop Grumman is a leading global security company providing innovative systems, products and solutions in unmanned systems, cyber security, C4ISR, and logistics and modernization to government and commercial customers worldwide.
> 
> Northrop Grumman Focuses on Global ISR Capabilities at Aero India 2013 NYSE:NOC



Smart- Indian forces are targetting such tech, the IAF/RAW's ARC are looking at AFSTOR/SIGNIT/ELINT special purpose a/c and the IN has an open requirement for shore based AWACS and ISR assets and later this decade is going to look for such ship-borne assets also.

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## Abingdonboy

> Embraer will promote its full portfolio of Commercial Aviation, Executive Aviation and Defense and Security products and services in the ninth International Exhibition on Aerospace, Defense and Civil Aviation  Aero India 2013 at the Air Force Station Yelahanka, in Bangalore, India from February 6 to 10.
> The portfolio includes the leading family of commercial jets up to 120 seats in the global market (E170, E175, E190 and E195), the most modern and complete product line of business jets, from the entry-level Phenom 100 to the ultra-large Lineage 1000, and a broad range of integrated solutions for defense and security that combine a high technological level and operational efficiency at competitive acquisition and operating costs. Three of the Embraer Executive Jets aircraft will be on static display: the entry-level Phenom 100, the long-range Legacy 650 and the ultra-large Lineage 1000.
> Embraer has a strong presence in the Indian market and counts the national government, private organizations and individuals as customers and operators. The country is home to more than a third of the Companys executive jets in the region with at least one type each of the Phenom, Legacy and Lineage jets in service today.
> Embraer Executive Jets is the only business jet manufacturer to produce a full range of aircraft solutions and its aircraft have received more than a dozen international design and innovation awards from top luxury and aviation publications for setting a new standard for business aircraft.
> To support the operations of the growing number Embraer executive jet customers and operators in the country, Embraer Executive Jets has named Indamer Pvt. Ltd. and Air Works Engineering Pvt Ltd as authorized service providers in the country for all operators of Embraer Executive Jets aircraft.
> Five of Embraers Legacy jets are also used by the Indian Air Force (IAF) and Border Security Force (BSF) for the transportation of VIPS and foreign dignitaries. In addition, Embraer Defense and Security has collaborated with Indias Defense Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) to create three bespoke EMB145 jet platforms for use as Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) aircraft, two of which were delivered last year.
> Embraer (Booth C2.3 and Booth C3.14 in Hall C) will hold a press conference on Tuesday, 5 February 2013 at 11:00 a.m.



Embraer to Showcase Its Full Portfolio at Aero India 2013

-------------------------------------------------

*

Hospitality sector ready for Aero India windfall*




> BANGALORE: Making hay while the sun shines bright on Aero India 2013. As the dates of the show draw close, the hospitality sector is set to rake it in.
> 
> Here's one example: the average room rate in five star/luxury hotels, which stands at Rs 9,500, has gone up to Rs 20,000-Rs 22,000 per day for the five days the city plays host to the premier event. It means luxury properties in the hospitality sector will make a whopping 2.5 times more business than they do otherwise. And if that's not all, some top hotels are insisting that guests book for five nights, even if they're staying only for a couple of nights.
> 
> According to market analysts, high-end hotels in Yeshwantpur, Rajajinagar and Malleswaram -- those closest to the venue -- were sold out first. Luxury hotels in the CBD were second in priority, given the distance people have to cover to reach Yelahanka Air Force Station.
> 
> "It's the overall demand. Given that this show happens once in two years, demand starts picking up 7-8 months in advance. Even three or four months ahead of the show, rooms in premier hotels are taken up by foreign internationals," said an insider from the hospitality sector. People who are here to forge billion-dollar deals don't really care that they have to shell out extra, and that's what this sector uses to its advantage.
> 
> Transporters join the race
> 
> Car rentals are also set to climb the demand ladder. With a dearth of high-end cars in the city, luxury sedans are being ferried in from neighbouring states. "We're sourcing them from Hyderabad and Chennai. As against Rs 4,500-5,000 per day for a Mercedes E-Class, the rental has gone up to Rs 15,000. For the S-Class Merc, the rental is up to Rs 36,000 from Rs 12,000 per day," said Kawaljit Singh Narula, assistant VP, Le Passage to India (LPTI), Bangalore.
> 
> Given that the show attracts 3,000-4,000 people a day, the demand for luxury cars goes up by leaps and bounds.
> 
> "Rates usually go up for these car categories, but generally, nobody compromises. Most foreign travellers book a couple of months in advance but are very particular about service standards -- that the car is what they want and that it ferries them to the destination on time," said Gaurav Aggarwal, CEO and founder of Savaari, an online car rental. Given the huge demand, they're exploring the possibility of getting high-end cars from Cochin.




Hospitality sector ready for Aero India windfall - Times Of India


-----------------------------------------
*


SAAB eager to engage Indian markets despite MMRCA setback*




> The global aerospace and defence company SAAB had organised a unique contest during Aero-India 2011, which had allowed the winning contestant the privilege of co-piloting the Gripen, Swedens newest multi-role jet fighter.
> 
> Contestants were tested in various aerospace-related issues and had to qualify on a flight simulator. Shashank H R, a 20-year-old engineering student from Bangalore, had won the contest and co-piloted a Gripen captained by SAAB pilot Robin Norlander. At the time, SAAB had been hoping to win Indias multi-billion dollar Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft.
> 
> Director of SAAB India, Eddy le da Motte, had touted the contest as a means to win the hearts and minds of the public and the government. Its just not our style to fly celebrities; we wanted to fly Indian citizens and sell our fighter to the nation, he said.
> 
> Although India rejected SAABs bid in favour of Frances Dassault Rafale fighter, SAAB continues to show interest in the Indian market. This year, the ninth edition of Aero-India, scheduled to take place between February 6 and 10,&#8200;SAAB has announced its intention to bring a host of products, including the Gripen. SAAB will participate in full strength at Aero-India 2013 being held at the Yelahanka Air Base, Bangalore, a company spokesperson said.
> 
> The firm is expected to present a series of products covering land, air, naval and civil security system at the air show. Aero-India 2013 will be marked with a series of interesting opportunities to get to know and engage with SAAB, the company said.
> 
> Among other things, SAABs display will include the new man-portable air defence system, the RBS 70 NG VSHORAD, which can be used in all weather conditions. The company has also declared its intention to showcase the Bamse Automatic Command-to-Line-of-Sight missile system, which it claims is one of the few systems in the world that has been developed as a dedicated ground-based air-defence missile system. With Bamse, you are protected against a wide variety of modern threats, including stealth and small targets, the company said.
> 
> SAAB will also display other innovative weapons system such as the anti-shipping and anti-tank missile systems, besides other non-weapons technology such as Camosphere tents, a mobile camouflage system.&#8200;Scale models of aircraft (including the Gripen) will also be present, in addition to systems displays and simulators for such things as tank crew training, heads-up displays and situational awareness terminals for naval vessels.



SAAB eager to engage Indian markets despite MMRCA setback


------------------------------------------

The ten aircraft to look out for at Aero India 2013 - | Photo1 | India Today |


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## BlueDot_in_Space



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## S-DUCT

> The NAL-developed Light Canard Research Aircraft (LCRA) prepares for takeoff as an IAF Sukhoi 30 lands at Yelahanka Air Force Station during the practice session. R. Samuel

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## IND151

*Bangalore:* The C-17 Globemaster-III heavy-lift transport aircraft from aerospace giant Boeing, is expected to be a show-stopper at this year's Aero India. Thanks to all the done deals of Indian Air Force (IAF), which has reduced the number of videshi combat fighters at the show, Boeing&#8217;s mammoth beast might emerge as an eye-catching flying machine. The IAF will receive the first batch of five C-17 Globemaster-III planes this year, followed by another five in 2014 &#8211; as per a $4.1-billion deal, now in play. India will emerge as C-17&#8217;s largest international customer, when the last of the transport planes join the IAF fleet.
Boeing says that the C-17s will bring unmatched strategic airlift capability to India. &#8220;India&#8217;s strategic and tactical airlift capabilities for military and humanitarian airlift will be considerably strengthened with the induction of the C-17 into IAF&#8217;s fleet,&#8221; Dennis Swanson, Vice-President, International Business Development, Boeing Defence, Space and Security, India, tells Express.
The C-17 is equipped with an externally blown flap system that allows a steep low-speed final approach for routine short-field landings. A C-17 can take off and land on a 3,000-foot runway, including narrower ones. (Across the globe, the standard runway length is 9,000 feet. Bangalore airport runway is 10,200 feet.) It can also manoeuvre using a three-point star turn and its backing capability. This ability to back up allows it to operate on narrow taxiways and on congested ramps. With its full payload and an initial cruise altitude of 28,000 feet, the C-17 has an un-refueled range of approximately 2,400 nautical miles. The C-17 is also designed to airdrop 102 paratroopers and equipment.
&#8220;The C-17s also offers rapid response capability for relief missions anywhere in the world. One of the C-17&#8217;s most impressive capabilities is that it can land where other large air-lifters are unable to operate, including an unpaved airfield with no infrastructure. Once on the ground, the C-17 is extremely agile and requires minimal support. Unlike other large transport aircraft, it can turn around and park without assistance and does not have to kneel down for offloading. This saves considerable time when offloading the aircraft and returning it to service&#8221; Dennis said.
The C-17 requires a crew of only three &#8211; a pilot, co-pilot and loadmaster &#8211; reducing personnel requirements, risk exposure and long-term operating costs. It can carry a full array of wheeled vehicles in two side-by-side rows in its cargo compartment.


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## Joe Shearer

Abingdonboy said:


> No problem mate! Enjoy!
> 
> 
> 
> And sir at 19yo I don't think I have quite got to the point in my life where people should call me "sir"!



Did you _have_ to mention that?

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## Abingdonboy

Joe Shearer said:


> Did you _have_ to mention that?



Lol, what mate??!!


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## Che Guevara



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## kurup

BlueDot_in_Space said:


>



What is it carrying in the stub wings ??


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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> What is it carrying in the stub wings ??



Smokewinder- produces coloured smoke for displays.

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## imperialmen

Our college is situated right next to the runways. We are getting holiday from 6th to 11th for air show! Jealous?

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## Abingdonboy

imperialmen said:


> Our college is situated right next to the runways. We are getting holiday from 6th to 11th for air show! Jealous?



Will you be in attendance at AI mate?


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## imperialmen

Abingdonboy said:


> Will you be in attendance at AI mate?



It would be most foolish not to. My whole college will be there, along with mates from across my school-days and college-days. And of course the birds 

Any PDF people coming?

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## PRINCE_THE_SHOWSTOPPER

Joe Shearer said:


> Did you _have_ to mention that?


accha amader maidan'e indian army je system gulo eneche,setake to amra boltei pari "kolkata's defexpo 2013",tai na???

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## Abingdonboy

imperialmen said:


> It would be most foolish not to. My whole college will be there, along with mates from across my school-days and college-days. And of course the birds
> 
> Any PDF people coming?


Lucky you mate! Be sure to click plenty of pics and post them here mate for the benefit of all those PDFers who aren't lucky enough to be attending!!


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## Joe Shearer

PRINCE_THE_SHOWSTOPPER said:


> accha amader maidan'e indian army je system gulo eneche,setake to amra boltei pari "kolkata's defexpo 2013",tai na???



Ora to beroye na, kono kichhu astra-shastra dekhaye na, ki rokom defexpo holo aabar eta? Maidan'e dukhana purono Pakistani tank pore royechhe, o-guli dekhe ke ki shikhbe ba bujhbe?

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## Abingdonboy

Joe Shearer said:


> Did you _have_ to mention that?


 @Joe Shearer what was this about, sir?


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## Joe Shearer

Abingdonboy said:


> @Joe Shearer what was this about, sir?




The reaction of a 62 year old on learning that an intelligent and admired member of the forum was nearly one-third his age, younger than his own baby daughter.

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## Abingdonboy

Joe Shearer said:


> The reaction of a 62 year old on learning that an intelligent and admired member of the forum was nearly one-third his age, younger than his own baby daughter.



Sir, you flatter me. Thank you for your kind words.

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## BlueDot_in_Space

For those interested in seminars

Live webcast of Aero India 2013 International Seminar

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## PRINCE_THE_SHOWSTOPPER

Joe Shearer said:


> Ora to beroye na, kono kichhu astra-shastra dekhaye na, ki rokom defexpo holo aabar eta? Maidan'e dukhana purono Pakistani tank pore royechhe, o-guli dekhe ke ki shikhbe ba bujhbe?


na na maidan'e army mohora cholchiloto friday,sat,sunday,janen na??? ora dekhlam igla sam,T-72,40mm palmya grenade launcher,7.62mm machine gun,12.7mm machine gun,bofors,RPG,Carl-gustav,anti-mine vehicle,sniper-rifle etc eneche r army jawan ra demo dicche ki-bhabe use korte hoy


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## BlueDot_in_Space



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## kurup

BlueDot_in_Space said:


>



Awesome .........


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## sudhir007

Some Picture from AI-2013

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## sudhir007



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## RPK

[/QUOTE]

what is the white patch right of wings?


Seems like masking in every photo








Black patch in this photo


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## sudhir007



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## RPK



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## RPK



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## Backbencher

Wow...... I'll turn blind if such lovely pics are presented to my eye .....wow


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## RPK



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## RPK



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## sudhir007



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## sudhir007



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## Abingdonboy

@sudhir007 keep the pics coming mate! 

+where are you getting this pics from?

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## garibnawaz

Abingdonboy said:


> @sudhir007 keep the pics coming mate!
> 
> +where are you getting this pics from?



Tarmak blog.

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## subincb

Please recharge your camera batteries for AI-2013. I was careless last time I went and ran out of batteries. Not gonna let that happen this time. Hope KF is gonna have their stall too.. enjoy all.


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## BlueDot_in_Space



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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy




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## BlueDot_in_Space

*LCH on the loose: Agility and Speed*

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## BlueDot_in_Space

*Light canard research aircraft (manned) on which Rustom 1 (unmanned) is based
*

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## Abingdonboy

Rafale practicing:

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## imperialmen

Abingdonboy said:


>



Which plane is this? Lower right? Is it the Raptor? 

EDIT: got it! its a mig!


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## Abingdonboy

imperialmen said:


> Which plane is this? Lower right? Is it the Raptor?
> 
> EDIT: got it! its a mig!



Both pics at the bottom are F-16 IMHO

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## BlueDot_in_Space

*Weapon test of rudra*

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## mirage2K

*Russian Knights promise daredevilry in Sukhois*

BANGALORE: Don't miss the Russians this season. The 'Russian Knights' (RussikiyeVityazi), the aerobatic team of the Russian Air Force display team will be flying in their Sukhoi Su-27 and Su-27UB fighters, single seaters that promise to thrill Bangalore.

It was only last year that the Russian Knights finished their 25th year of raising, where they displayed daredevilry flying in adverse conditions. Aero India 2013 will be the first show for the team, following which they will performing at air shows in Paris, Dubai, Langkawi, Malaysia and China.

Although initial information was that the team would arrive in Bangalore on Sunday, officials at Aero India said they would arrive in Bangalore by Tuesday. "Their arrival has been delayed due to some weather problems," officials said.

Five of the Su-27s, led by the leader of the Il-76 flying squad will be flying Kubinka- Chelyabinsk - Delhi- Bangalore.

The team uses Sukhoi flankers, an aircraft designed during the Cold War era to counter NATO planes. The team does not use smoke emitters like many other aerobatic teams, but formation flying and aerobatics is their main thrust. "You should watch out for their tricks with flares," said an Air Force officer who had seen them in action.

MOTH AND THE MASTER

While the Russians are on their way, the Indian Air Force is showing off its vintage Tiger Moth. The Moth was resurrected recently as part of the IAF vintage flight, and will fly for the first time at Aero India 2013. The flight will accompanied by India's latest strategic heavy lift aircraft, C-17 Globemaster III. "This would showcase the spectrum of technological advancement between the Moth and the Master," said an official communication.

It was the primary trainer aircraft for the Royal Air Force during World War II and also the basic trainer aircraft in the IAF right from 1940. Training schools in the IAF operated the Tiger Moth and it was later replaced by the HT-2.The Tiger Moth has no electric system and has to be started manually. Refuelling is done manually, by pouring fuel into the tank above on the biplane.

The SuryaKirans won't blaze through the skies this edition. In 2011, the aircraft were redeployed for pilot training duty due to the shortage of trainer aircraft, and the SKAT was grounded. Officials said the Kirans will be back with the Hawk British single-engine advanced jet trainer aircraft soon.

Russian Knights promise daredevilry in Sukhois - The Times of India


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## mirage2K

how about some mini guns on the Rudra???


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## RPK




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## RPK



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## notsuperstitious

It would be awesome if you guys could give captions to the pictures.

Thank you very much for posting the pics BTW.


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## RPK



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## Dandpatta

Looks like a extra healthy Obama 



RPK said:


>


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## sudhir007

http://aeroindiaseminar.in/admin/technical/pdf/_1358752950ChandramoulilatestAEP-20-1-13.pdf


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## kurup

>




.........


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## kurup

BlueDot_in_Space said:


>



The stub wings and wing roots are modified . Wing roots look bulged.

Earlier model.


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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy




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## Abingdonboy



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## BlueDot_in_Space

*Visual analysis grabs of Helina launch from Rudra*

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## Abingdonboy

BlueDot_in_Space said:


> *Visual analysis grabs of Helina launch from Rudra*


Any idea what vid these CAPS are from?


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## BlueDot_in_Space

Abingdonboy said:


> Any idea what vid these CAPS are from?



Not from a video, but from this paper 

http://aeroindiaseminar.in/admin/technical/pdf/_1355193923ARMS_MSW_A4_format_RKF.pdf

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## BlueDot_in_Space

*Brahmos: Past, Present and Future*


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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

IAF's first PC-7 MK.II:

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## sudhir007




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## sudhir007




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## Dandpatta

OMG .. where's THAT bird from?


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## Roybot

Dandpatta said:


> OMG .. where's THAT bird from?



I think the photo is from 2011, no Gripens participating this year.


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## Dillinger

kurup said:


> The stub wings and wing roots are modified . Wing roots look bulged.
> 
> Earlier model.








*Here is the pic of the same model with the refined gun pod.* *With wings having been strengthened to carry heavier payloads, the successful weight reduction measures seem to be paying dividends since the aforementioned modifications would only have been undertaken once it was realized that the LCH could indeed carry heavier payloads. *Expect TD-3 to be modified even further. Some people in the know are claiming that final variants might even be blessed with an exhaust shroud. It will be interesting to see what self-protection systems are employed for the LCH, perhaps it will be the same suite which has been employed on the Rudra?

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## skysthelimit

BlueDot_in_Space said:


>



The Embraer AEW&C looks surprisingly sexy.

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## skysthelimit

BlueDot_in_Space said:


>



I can just hear "Ride of the Valkyries" playing in the background

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## Hellraiser007

*Antony flags off Aero India 2013*






Aero India 2013, the five-day bi-annual military and aerospace spectacle, began at the Yelahanka Air Force Station on Wednesday. Around 25 countries - 650 domestic and foreign aerospace manufacturers are taking part in the event.

Defence minister A. K. Antony inaugurated the aero show which commended with a coordinated fly-past of helicopters carrying the flags of the three Services. Civil Aviation Minister Ajit Singh, Chief Minister Jagadish Shettar, IAF Chief N A K Browne and FICCI chief Naina Lal Kidwai were also present.

The Hindu : Cities / Bangalore : Antony flags off Aero India 2013


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## kurup

Dillinger said:


> *Here is the pic of the same model with the refined gun pod.* *With wings having been strengthened to carry heavier payloads, the successful weight reduction measures seem to be paying dividends since the aforementioned modifications would only have been undertaken once it was realized that the LCH could indeed carry heavier payloads. *Expect TD-3 to be modified even further. Some people in the know are claiming that final variants might even be blessed with an exhaust shroud. It will be interesting to see what self-protection systems are employed for the LCH, perhaps it will be the same suite which has been employed on the Rudra?



Cannot see the picture mate .
Upload the picture in imagur or imagesup and post it here.


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## Dillinger

kurup said:


> Cannot see the picture mate .
> Upload the picture in imagur or imagesup and post it here.



Apologies. You should be able to view the pic on my original post now as I have edited it.


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## bangbros

here few pics of hal rudra

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## kurup

Dillinger said:


> *Here is the pic of the same model with the refined gun pod.* *With wings having been strengthened to carry heavier payloads, the successful weight reduction measures seem to be paying dividends since the aforementioned modifications would only have been undertaken once it was realized that the LCH could indeed carry heavier payloads. *Expect TD-3 to be modified even further. Some people in the know are claiming that final variants might even be blessed with an exhaust shroud. It will be interesting to see what self-protection systems are employed for the LCH, perhaps it will be the same suite which has been employed on the Rudra?



A very good picture .........thanks for sharing.

I thought this was TD-3 ,the final variant .IS it not ??


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## ptltejas

Dandpatta said:


> OMG .. where's THAT bird from?



which bird?



Roybot said:


> I think the photo is from 2011, no Gripens participating this year.



He has no meaning for the fighter but the pilot..........


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## Dillinger

kurup said:


> A very good picture .........thanks for sharing.
> 
> I thought this was TD-3 ,the final variant .IS it not ??



Can't really say anything on that topic Sir. But if the TD-3 had flown there would have been exhaustive news and blog articles mentioning the same. Not to mention that the various "defense analysts/journalists" have been following the LCH program even more keenly than the LCA program, we would have definitely had Prasun Sengupta or Ajai Shukla reporting on it. Even the Tarmaak007 page isn't listing the presence of the TD-3 in Aero India 2013. But this pic definitely represents what the final article will look like to a great extent. 

1) The reinforced wing stubs.

2) Refined gun mount/pod

3) The non-retractable landing gear has been provided a camouflaged shroud/covering.

*Q- Is there any chance that we will see the integration of an off the shelf fire control radar like the AN/APG-78 Longbow Fire Control Radar with the LCH, or is it not required/envisaged? *

*The deployment of an exhaust shroud to further mask IR signatures and a comprehensive self protection suite will make this machine a real pain in the ### for any prospective opponents.*

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## sancho

Dillinger said:


> *Here is the pic of the same model with the refined gun pod.* *With wings having been strengthened to carry heavier payloads, the successful weight reduction measures seem to be paying dividends since the aforementioned modifications would only have been undertaken once it was realized that the LCH could indeed carry heavier payloads. *Expect TD-3 to be modified even further. Some people in the know are claiming that final variants might even be blessed with an exhaust shroud. It will be interesting to see what self-protection systems are employed for the LCH, perhaps it will be the same suite which has been employed on the Rudra?




The main changes on these versions are aimed on drag reductions, that's why all the coverings and air intake changes were made now. The self-protection systems will definitely be the same to Rudra, or the Mark 4 Dhruv, since they all will share these parts with eachother.




Dillinger said:


> *Q- Is there any chance that we will see the integration of an off the shelf fire control radar like the AN/APG-78 Longbow Fire Control Radar with the LCH, or is it not required/envisaged? *
> 
> *The deployment of an exhaust shroud to further mask IR signatures and a comprehensive self protection suite will make this machine a real pain in the ### for any prospective opponents.*



Of course there is, but only as a later addition of capability increasement and has no importance now. Same goes for the IR reductions, which have now less importance, because weight and drag issues needs to be fixed.

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## Dillinger

sancho said:


> The main changes on these versions are aimed on drag reductions, that's why all the coverings and air intake changes were made now. The self-protection systems will definitely be the same to Rudra, or the Mark 4 Dhruv, since they all will share these parts with eachother.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course there is, but only as a later addition of capability increasement and has no importance now. Same goes for the IR reductions, which have now less importance, because weight and drag issues needs to be fixed.



Sancho Sir, 

Could you venture a guess as to how far are we from the target? In your estimate how much weight does the LCH need to drop and when can we hope to see the article being inducted? So will we be commencing the development of the radar ourselves once the hepter is inducted or will we probably go for an off the shelf solution? Lastly, the Shakti engine which powers the Dhruv and the LCH- is it built/manufactured here- as in is it tooled out from the raw material phase to the end product phase in country?


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## sancho

Dillinger said:


> Sancho Sir,
> 
> Could you venture a guess as to how far are we from the target? In your estimate how much weight does the LCH need to drop and when can we hope to see the article being inducted? So will we be commencing the development of the radar ourselves once the hepter is inducted or will we probably go for an off the shelf solution? Lastly, the Shakti engine which powers the Dhruv and the LCH- is it built/manufactured here- as in is it tooled out from the raw material phase to the end product phase in country?



Can't tell you about the possible overweight and don't want to speculate here. When you see the latest videos LCHs performance seems to be quiet good and only minor modifications seems to be needed, the coverings make it look even better imo.
The induction does not have too much importance at the moment, with Rudra and Apaches coming too, I don't think that we took raw materials for Shakit longer than in the early stages.


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## Abingdonboy

Dillinger said:


>



Whoa- cool! Some serious refinements made to the LCH! Things are coming along nicely!


----------



## S-DUCT

1:3 Brahmos 2 model at aero india 2013

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## sancho

Daily webcast 

http://rafale.co.in/index.php/en/2013-01-15-14-46-56/events.html


Credits to Olybrius

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## skysthelimit

naseem shah said:


> looks like a water gun





Umair Nawaz said:


> u know my nephew's plastic toys r better looking then his indian pride.



If you guys had half a brain you would have realized that these are exhibits for the thermal sights and not the guns. But then again, I guess I have too high expectations.

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## Mike_Brando

PRINCE_THE_SHOWSTOPPER said:


> accha amader maidan'e indian army je system gulo eneche,setake to amra boltei pari "kolkata's defexpo 2013",tai na???


bhai amader maidan e Army Exhibition ta dekhe ami kichuta disappointed hoyechi,Army Tattoo ta fatafati chilo but ora aro kichu bhalo weapons exhibition e niye ashte parto

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## Mike_Brando

PRINCE_THE_SHOWSTOPPER said:


> na na maidan'e army mohora cholchiloto friday,sat,sunday,janen na??? ora dekhlam igla sam,T-72,40mm palmya grenade launcher,7.62mm machine gun,12.7mm machine gun,bofors,RPG,Carl-gustav,anti-mine vehicle,sniper-rifle etc eneche r army jawan ra demo dicche ki-bhabe use korte hoy


ora kintu T-90M bhishma ba Arjun mk-1 tank antei parto but jehetu eta kolkata tai joto sob purono weapon r tank gulo dekhalo exhibition e!majhe majhe amar khub raag hoy je kolkata r lokera ki dosh koreche jate ora notun weapon gulo exhibition e dekhar sujog pabe na!jahok Tattoo ta dekhe kichu ta holeo raag komeche amar Army r opor!

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## SEAL

I like the color scheme very patriotic Bleed Blue.

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## kurup

Dillinger said:


> Can't really say anything on that topic Sir. But if the TD-3 had flown there would have been exhaustive news and blog articles mentioning the same. Not to mention that the various "defense analysts/journalists" have been following the LCH program even more keenly than the LCA program, we would have definitely had Prasun Sengupta or Ajai Shukla reporting on it. Even the Tarmaak007 page isn't listing the presence of the TD-3 in Aero India 2013. But this pic definitely represents what the final article will look like to a great extent.
> 
> 1) The reinforced wing stubs.
> 
> 2) Refined gun mount/pod
> 
> 3) The non-retractable landing gear has been provided a camouflaged shroud/covering.
> 
> *Q- Is there any chance that we will see the integration of an off the shelf fire control radar like the AN/APG-78 Longbow Fire Control Radar with the LCH, or is it not required/envisaged? *
> 
> *The deployment of an exhaust shroud to further mask IR signatures and a comprehensive self protection suite will make this machine a real pain in the ### for any prospective opponents.*



Please don't call me sir . I am just a military enthusiast nothing else.

Is there any picture of new LCH design showing engine exhaust ??


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## cloud_9

SankYou,SankYou !


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## Dillinger

kurup said:


> Please don't call me sir . I am just a military enthusiast nothing else.
> 
> Is there any picture of new LCH design showing engine exhaust ??



Currently the engine exhaust outlets are uncovered and since the exhaust does have a thermal variance with the 'air' around the hepter it will contribute to the IR signature of the hepter. Similar projects started out the same way and an exhaust shroud was added later- In the pic below (Denel Rooivalk) if you direct your attention to the area behind the rotor blades towards the aft, you can clearly see that the exhaust outlets have been diverted upwards- in fact the separation between the shroud and the main body is visible too. 






Ummm. I'm 21 years old so I just tend to assume that the senior members here are older than me and thus the "Sir" follows our of respect for age.......Its an ingrained habit.

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## Abingdonboy

Dillinger said:


> Currently the engine exhaust outlets are uncovered and since the exhaust does have a thermal variance with the 'air' around the hepter it will contribute to the IR signature of the hepter. Similar projects started out the same way and an exhaust shroud was added later- In the pic below if you direct your attention to the area behind the rotor blades towards the aft, you can clearly see that the exhaust outlets have been diverted upwards- in fact the separation between the shroud and the main body is visible too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm. I'm 21 years old so I just tend to assume that the senior members here are older than me and thus the "Sir" follows our of respect for age.......Its an ingrained habit.


IR suppressors are not that hard to design- the LCH team have rightly left this till a later stage. The IAF already has extensive use of such suppressors.


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## Abingdonboy

Iron Dome







ALH-WSI

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## Abingdonboy

https://www.aeroindia.in/Confirmations.pdf



> Dassault 9000 LX











> Honeywell Aero

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## Abingdonboy




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## kurup

Dillinger said:


> Currently the engine exhaust outlets are uncovered and since the exhaust does have a thermal variance with the 'air' around the hepter it will contribute to the IR signature of the hepter. Similar projects started out the same way and an exhaust shroud was added later- In the pic below (Denel Rooivalk) if you direct your attention to the area behind the rotor blades towards the aft, you can clearly see that the exhaust outlets have been diverted upwards- in fact the separation between the shroud and the main body is visible too.



The engine exhaust of LCH is also diverted upwards but I was more interested in something like Apache.

_The Apache is also designed to evade heat-seeking missiles by reducing its infrared signature (the heat energy it releases). The Black Hole infrared suppression system dissipates the heat of the engine exhaust by mixing it with air flowing around the helicopter. The cooled exhaust then passes through a special filter, which absorbs more heat. The Longbow also has an infrared jammer, which generates infrared energy of varying frequencies to confuse heat-seeking missiles._



Dillinger said:


> Ummm. I'm 21 years old so I just tend to assume that the senior members here are older than me and thus the "Sir" follows our of respect for age.......Its an ingrained habit.



Just 2 years older than you .............


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## Abingdonboy

Rafael SYPDER (mounted on a TATA truck- this is meant to be the configuration that has been delivered to the IAF):

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy




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## trident2010

What is the new rocket at the right hand side?


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## Abingdonboy




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## kingkobra

trident2010 said:


> What is the new rocket at the right hand side?



Seems to be pslv c21
s


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## Abingdonboy



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## Iggy

Dillinger said:


>



Whats that two stick like thing in either side of the gun??


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## Abingdonboy

seiko said:


> Whats that two stick like thing in either side of the camera??



Sensors of some sort.

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## Abingdonboy



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## trident2010

kingkobra said:


> Seems to be pslv c21
> s



Seems more narrower then PSLV. Also the heat shield is more pointed, but yes most possibly PSLV.


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## Abingdonboy

India Becoming a Strategic Growth Market for IAI | Defense Update - Military Technology & Defense News



RPK said:


> what is the white patch right of wings?
> 
> 
> Seems like masking in every photo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Black patch in this photo



Not "patching" these are mission system antennas- depending the the way the light catches them they can appear to change colour.

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## Abingdonboy

Seems like a bit of a waste of time for HAL to bring this, but hey:


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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

*Man these are pretty machines:*


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## Abingdonboy




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## ANPP

Abingdonboy said:


> Seems like a bit of a waste of time for HAL to bring this, but hey:



Why IAF bought Pitlus when HTTP40 was already developed? PJT are not so much precious that IAF can not go for low end.


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## Abingdonboy




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## Abingdonboy

ANPP said:


> Why IAF bought Pitlus when HTTP40 was already developed? PJT are not so much precious that IAF can not go for low end.



This is purely a mock-up. In no way is the HTT-40 already developed. The HTT-40 to date hasn't even conducted a single flight test. It would have taken years to develop this BTT-time the IAF didn't have to wait. Additionally the requirements for BTTs for the IAF is ~200 (with the IAF academy imparting BTT training to IN aviation pilots also ) so with 75 PC-7 MK.II already on order there was room for HAL to scoop up an order for 125 HTT-40s to fulfil the IAF's remaining requirement however, unforgivably, HAL quoted a price more than 2x that of the advanced PC-7 MK.II!!! They shot themselves in the foot so this is curtains for the HTT-40 for sure.


I can't help but fear that a similar fate may fall on the LUH.


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## Abingdonboy

*
Shout out to those unsung heroes like these IAF ARFF units who work tirelessly behind the scenes to ensure that such major and glamorous shows take place without a hitch:*


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## Roybot

>




What plane is this? Indian?


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## Abingdonboy

Roybot said:


> What plane is this? Indian?



It is Indian- it is a canard test vehicle for DRDO/NAL. The RUSTOM-1 UAV is based on this a/c.


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## Zoro

Roybot said:


> What plane is this? Indian?



It's light canard research aircraft (LCRA) of NAL. Rustom is derived from this aircraft.

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## kurup

Abingdonboy said:


>




What are these two trucks ????


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## Abingdonboy

kurup said:


> What are these two trucks ????



Top one is a TATA with some sort of (collapsed at this point) radar mounted. Lookes to be IAF's judging by the paint job.


Second one no idea its purpose but I can tell you that is a TATRA truck it is mounted on! Seems to be a BEL product though- if that helps!

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## Zoro

Excellent thread guys keep it up.  Just look at the foreign vendors eying for a deal with India. Even though I hate congress government one thing they done correct is Foreign Policy and excelling at diplomacy.


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## ANPP

Abingdonboy said:


> I can't help but fear that a similar fate may fall on the LUH.



I think it is already dead in services, unless HAL want to develop it for export or tech innovation. ALH is doing greater, performing too many role, in other sense ALH eat LUH. Instead of LUH army should go for ALH & upgrade it by time-time.


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## Abingdonboy

ANPP said:


> I think it is already dead in services, unless HAL want to develop it for export or tech innovation. ALH is doing greater, performing too many role, in other sense ALH eat LUH. Instead of LUH army should go for ALH & upgrade it by time-time.



No, the ALH isn't killing off the LUH. The LUH is in a completely different class to the ALH- the LUH is a single engined 3 ton light helo whilst the ALH is a twin engined 5.5 ton Medium lift helo. The Indian forces themselves have a separate requirement for a LUH however it seems the foreign buy, RSH (looking like the Fennec AS-555 at this point), will kill of the HAL LUH as what's the point in 2 different helos occupying the same role? Not to mention if HAL screw up the LUH wrt costs and development like they did with the HTT-40 then it is a slam dunk for the foreign RSH- they will get the entire 384 LUH order instead of just the intial 197.

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## Water Car Engineer

>




Awesome...


----------



## ANPP

Abingdonboy said:


> No, the ALH isn't killing off the LUH. The LUH is in a completely different class to the ALH- the LUH is a single engined 3 ton light helo whilst the ALH is a twin engined 5.5 ton Medium lift helo. The Indian forces themselves have a separate requirement for a LUH however it seems the foreign buy, RSH (looking like the Fennec AS-555 at this point), will kill of the HAL LUH as what's the point in 2 different helos occupying the same role? Not to mention if HAL screw up the LUH wrt costs and development like they did with the HTT-40 then it is a slam dunk for the foreign RSH- they will get the entire 384 LUH order instead of just the intial 197.



Thanks buddy. But can you enlighten more on role of LUH against ALH.


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## Water Car Engineer

*Astra Mk1 BVRAAM mock up
*
New design

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## r1MM0n

Roybot said:


> What plane is this? Indian?



thats drdo rustam1 unmanned aircraft


----------



## Dillinger

Abingdonboy said:


> Top one is a TATA with some sort of (collapsed at this point) radar mounted. Lookes to be IAF's judging by the paint job.
> 
> 
> Second one no idea its purpose but I can tell you that is a TATRA truck it is mounted on! Seems to be a BEL product though- if that helps!



Sir the top one is a truck mounted Akash SAM launcher without the Akash missiles loaded.

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## Abingdonboy

ANPP said:


> Thanks buddy. But can you enlighten more on role of LUH against ALH.



Well it will be used to do communication flights, ferrying of smaller numbers of personnel and will be used as a reconnaissance/scout helo for armored divisions and artillery. Addtionally the IAF/IA required the ability to arm these birds to carry out small-scale armed attack role. Just look at what the Cheetak and Cheetah are doing in the Indian forces right now to see what the LUH/RSH will do in servicve.



Dillinger said:


> Sir the top one is a truck mounted Akash SAM launcher without the Akash missiles loaded.



I thought initially it might be something like that but the fact the missiles weren't loaded threw me!
@Dillinger as a 19 year old, I hardly think I deserve the title of "sir" just yet mate!


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## notsuperstitious

kurup said:


> What are these two trucks ????



I'm going to guess the second one is the Samyukta electronic warfare system

Samyukta Electronic Warfare System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

@Abingdonboy, stop showing off you are 19 year old. if people call you sir, just accept it and let it pass

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## BlueDot_in_Space

*Rudra weapon trials arnd 15:14.
DHRUV + Rudra + LCH development cost = 2000 Cr
TATA Indica development cost = 1750 Cr

*

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## Abingdonboy

fateh71 said:


> I'm going to guess the second one is the Samyukta electronic warfare system
> 
> Samyukta Electronic Warfare System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> @Abingdonboy, stop showing off you are 19 year old. if people call you sir, just accept it and let it pass


damn- I was going to speculate it was some sort of EW/ELINT system but thought better of it!


+lol!

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## Dillinger

Abingdonboy said:


> I thought initially it might be something like that but the fact the missiles weren't loaded threw me!
> @Dillinger as a 19 year old, I hardly think I deserve the title of "sir" just yet mate!



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! So we are the young ones on defence.pk then hunh? Although, you've got an impressive post count! That other pic has poor visibility with regard to the "forward clamp like-missile holding structure" and the color scheme is different so it threw me off too. Btw with regard to the Akash system, here's an in-depth pdf article outlining the design challenges met during the program- radar development information complete with pictures of array developments- and rudimentary diagrams of the modernized carriers for the missiles and the radars. http://aeroindiaseminar.in/admin/technical/pdf/_1358752950ChandramoulilatestAEP-20-1-13.pdf

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## Abingdonboy

LCH over the years 

Aero India 2013:







Aero India 2011:







1st prototype:

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## Abingdonboy




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## Hellraiser007

Aero India 2013 Photo Report

*1L121E mobile 3D radar covers full hemisphere, with on-the-move surveillance, detecting a wide range of threats including guided weapons and mini-uavs. This new radar supports air defense assets. Tamir Eshel, Defense-Update*






*The Indian Air Force First Embraer 145 AEW&C Aircraft. Credit: Angad Singh*







*The U.S. Air Force C-17 Globemaster landing at Aero India 2013. Credit: Angad Singh*






*The attack version of indigenously-built Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) Rudra. Credit: Angad Singh*






*EL/M-2052 showing the two module architecture of the new system, designed to fit into compact spaces like the LCA nose cone. Tamir Eshel, Defense-Update*





*EL/M2052 AESA radar to be integrated in the LCA. Tamir Eshel, Defense-Update*

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## Abingdonboy

*AMCA presentation:*

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## Hellraiser007

*Aero-india was the world debut for the Iron Dome missile &#8211; the real thing, just unarmed and defuelled. The photo clearly shows the ogive that blows off when the missiles nears its target, exposing the seeker that is responsible for the missile&#8217;s terminal effect that has demonstrated over 500 kills in recent months. Tamir Eshel, Defense-Update*


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## indian_foxhound




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## S-DUCT

Nice video on AMCA by ada


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## Hellraiser007

*The Tejas LCA shown with Derby and Python 5 missiles for the first time. Tamir Eshel, Defense-Update*







*Mobile version of the Iron Dome can cover a wider area and rapidly reposition against new threats. Provided with a full multimission radar, it can also perform air defense missions. Tamir Eshel, Defense-Update*





*SA-17 BUK-M2E air defense missile system. Note the EO/IR camera above the main radar, providing the system continuity of engagement even under heavy electronic attack. Photo: Tamir Eshel, Defense-Update*






*The Rafale on a display pass. Credit: Angad Singh*


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## indian_foxhound




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## Abingdonboy

@Hellraiser007 none of your pics are visible mate!

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## Hellraiser007

Abingdonboy said:


> @Hellraiser007 none of your pics are visible mate!



Thanks for reminding me.

I am able to see my pics

I am posting from Aero India 2013 Photo Report | Defense Update - Military Technology & Defense News


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## Abingdonboy




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## indian_foxhound

Hellraiser007 said:


> Thanks for reminding me.
> 
> I am able to see my pics
> 
> I am posting from Aero India 2013 Photo Report | Defense Update - Military Technology & Defense News


 @Abingdonboy its visible to me...

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## Water Car Engineer

I think the experience gained from this program will help India develop a well done stealth helo down the line.


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## Abingdonboy

Future of the IAF:


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## ANPP

Abingdonboy said:


> Future of the IAF:



?????????????????????


----------



## Abingdonboy

ANPP said:


> ?????????????????????



A pic of the C-17 landing in Bangalore. 

What I meant was the 2 types of A/C visible in the pic (ie the C17 and Rafale) are both destined to enter IAF service in the immediate future!


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## Hellraiser007

seiko said:


> Whats that two stick like thing in either side of the gun??



Inflated flotation Gear


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## trident2010

LCH looks deadly. When will HAL going to conduct weapons test with LCH?


----------



## sancho

Hellraiser007 said:


> *The Tejas LCA shown with Derby and Python 5 missiles for the first time. Tamir Eshel, Defense-Update*




Interesting, the first time that Python V is officially placed besides LCA, the Israelis really pushing hard to the Indian market. Python V, Derby, SPICE 2000, Barak 8 and Spyder SAM, possibly Iron Dome.

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## Hellraiser007

sancho said:


> Interesting, the first time that Python V is officially placed besides LCA, the Israelis really pushing hard to the Indian market. Python V, Derby, SPICE 2000, Barak 8 and Spyder SAM, possibly Iron Dome.



Astra BVR is also going to be integrated on LCA platform


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## Water Car Engineer

Water Car Engineer said:


>

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## sancho

Hellraiser007 said:


> Astra BVR is also going to be integrated on LCA platform



Of course, but it's an Indian missile, while the Israeli weapons coming in fast.


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## Firemaster

Did Tejas fly in this Aero India show? Any video?


----------



## indian_foxhound



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## indian_foxhound



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## indian_foxhound



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## indian_foxhound



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## indian_foxhound

[video]http://video.in.msn.com/watch/video/aero-india-2013-begins/fdh7yjys[/video]

[video]http://in.news.yahoo.com/video/aero-india-2013-begins-today-075600619.html[/video]

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## indian_foxhound

aero india video http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/233685-aero-india-2013-video.html#post3891292


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## ironman

*AMCA*

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## indian_foxhound

will b posting more tomorrow if gets any... Any contribution will be appreciated. @mods don't move the thread to areo india so that member can view it directly without wasting bandwith

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/video/2013/feb/06/aero-india-air-show-bangalore-video

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## Water Car Engineer

There's fairings in the back.

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## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> There fairing in the back.



This needs to be redesigned IMHO- doesn't look particularly aerodynamically efficient.


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## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> This needs to be redesigned IMHO- doesn't look particularly aerodynamically efficient.



Yeah, it looks awkward.


----------



## Abingdonboy




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## Abingdonboy



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## BlueDot_in_Space



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## Abingdonboy

BlueDot_in_Space said:


>



I was moments away from posting this lol!!

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## KS

Abingdonboy said:


>



Any guessed which place is that control center located?

My guess - somewhere near Aurangabad


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## Abingdonboy

KS said:


> Any guessed which place is that control center located?
> 
> My guess - somewhere near Aurangabad



My guess would be such things are kept under wraps.


----------



## KS

Abingdonboy said:


> My guess would be such things are kept under wraps.



Look at the map dude..


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## Abingdonboy

KS said:


> Look at the map dude..



You can't take this as gospel mate! This is a very basic representation- it is not giving long and lat coordinates! Mark my words such control centre locations will be kept secret-it is a highly sensitive strategic project not just for the civilian side but also, very much so, for the military. 



If the locations of the HQ and data centres of the UDAI/AADHAR are kept top secret then no doubt these locations will also!


----------



## KS

Abingdonboy said:


> You can't take this as gospel mate! This is a very basic representation- it is not giving long and lat coordinates! Mark my words such control centre locations will be kept secret-it is a highly sensitive strategic project not just for the civilian side but also, very much so, for the military.
> 
> 
> 
> If the locations of the HQ and data centres of the UDAI/AADHAR are kept top secret then no doubt these locations will also!



It was just a rough guess looking at the contours of the map..

Yo, why are you talking of UDAI/ADHAR as some thing less sensitive..they contain the complete horoscope of hundreds of millions of Indians..

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## Abingdonboy

KS said:


> It was just a rough guess looking at the contours of the map..
> 
> Yo, why are you talking of UDAI/ADHAR as some thing less sensitive..they contain the complete horoscope of hundreds of millions of Indians..



It just entered my head. I remember when I first read about the secrecy and high security around the data centres of UDAI/AADHAR I was a little surprised.But, yes, when you think about it, you'd expect and want nothing less than the extensive secuirty measures in place around such sensitive info.


----------



## Iggy

Hellraiser007 said:


> Infrared flotation Gear



Sorry for the ignorance, but what it will do?


----------



## indian_foxhound

*Surface-To-Air-Missile [SAM] Akash - Mr. G.
Chandramouli [Aero India 2013]*





*Indian Air Force's [IAF] Vision For The Future And
Exceptions From The Industry [Aero India 2013]*

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## indian_foxhound

*Current Trends In The Global Aerospace Industry -
Phil Boyle [Aero India 2013]*





*Advantages And Benefits India Offers To The
Aerospace Industry - GM Rao [Aero India 2013]*





*Design And Integration Challenges In Helicopters
Operating From Warships - Commander KPS
Kumar*

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## indian_foxhound

*India's Light Combat Helicopter [LCH] Giving
Aerial Demonstrations*





*Weapons Systems Being Tested In India's
Indigenous WSI Rudra Helicopter*





*Honourable Defence Minister Of India Shri AK
Antony Talking [Aero India 2013]*

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## SpArK

Lovely shot of the Embraeraeronaut-DRDO EMB-145I AEW&C aircraft on a low pass. The HAL LCH on ground.





Rafale at AeroIndia today.





The Textron CBU-105 Sensor Fuzed Weapon at AeroIndia. The Indian Air Force recently began taking deliveries

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## BlueDot_in_Space

indian_foxhound said:


> *India's Light Combat Helicopter [LCH] Giving
> Aerial Demonstrations*



The demonstration clip is from aero india 2011


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## indian_foxhound

*Status Of Current Indian Military Development
Projects & Road Ahead - Dr Saraswat [Aero India
2013]*







BlueDot_in_Space said:


> The demonstration clip is from aero india 2011



Uploader says of 2013


----------



## indian_foxhound

*Rudra, weaponised version of India's Advanced
Light Helicopter [ALH], Dhruv*

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## BlueDot_in_Space

indian_foxhound said:


> Uploader says of 2013



Nop, notice the armament booms. The demonstration clip as well as the rudra trial clip are from the presentation of Wg Cdr (Retd) Unni K Pillai. This time LCH is flying with a smoke winder pod as seen the the pic below.


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## indian_foxhound

BlueDot_in_Space said:


> Nop, notice the armament booms. The demonstration clip as well as the rudra trial clip are from the presentation of Wg Cdr (Retd) Unni K Pillai. This time LCH is flying with a smoke winder pod as seen the the pic below.



Then Thats uploadr mistake. Will ask him to correct it
Thanks 

*TV9 News: Aero India 2013 Show 'Begins' in
Bangalore*


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## BlueDot_in_Space

indian_foxhound said:


> Then Thats uploadr mistake. Will ask him to correct it
> Thanks



thanks for your efforts.


----------



## indian_foxhound

*Antony commences Aero India 2013*





*Rafale earns its wings*





*BNG AIR SHOW*


----------



## indian_foxhound

*Asia's biggest air show off to flying start in
Bangalore*


----------



## indian_foxhound

*Bangalore Braces for Air Show From
Wednesday*





*Shocking stunts in Bangalore Air show - Tv9*





*Wide range of aircraft at Bangalore Air Show -
TV9*





*indian air show bangalore 2013*


----------



## indian_foxhound

*indian air show bangalore*


----------



## indian_foxhound

*indian air show bangalore 2013 day-2*





*Aero India air show gets under way in Bangalore*





*Asia's biggest air show off to flying
start in Bangalore - Sakshi TV*





*TV9 - Bangalore decks up for spectacular air show*

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## indian_foxhound

*Aero India 2013 kicks off in Bangalore*





*Aero India 2013 begins in Bangalore*





*Aero India show begins today in Bangalore*





*Aero india show 2013 begins in Banglore*

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## skysthelimit

Mike_Brando said:


> ora kintu T-90M bhishma ba Arjun mk-1 tank antei parto but jehetu eta kolkata tai joto sob purono weapon r tank gulo dekhalo exhibition e!majhe majhe amar khub raag hoy je kolkata r lokera ki dosh koreche jate ora notun weapon gulo exhibition e dekhar sujog pabe na!jahok Tattoo ta dekhe kichu ta holeo raag komeche amar Army r opor!



Tooo much bong!


----------



## mirage2K

Dandpatta said:


> OMG .. where's THAT bird from?



She is Ritisha James

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## Mike_Brando

skysthelimit said:


> Tooo much bong!


well mate i would really appreciate it if you call me a "Bengali" instead of a "Bong"


----------



## sudhir007

HTT-40


----------



## mirage2K



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## mirage2K



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## jiki

reached banglore............ going to show tmrw as business visitor any mbr of pdf will be der plz replyyy

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## sancho

jiki said:


> reached banglore............ going to show tmrw as business visitor any mbr of pdf will be der plz replyyy




Infos about indigenous puls doppler radar for LCA MK1

LCH specboards, to see of there are any changes with the latest modifications

Any official info you can get on FGFA and the differences to Pak Fa

Oh and if you go to the Samtel booth, any info about their involvement in Rafale would be great (will they produce the Rafale IRST, will it be a new one or the licence production of the older IR channel?)

Thanks and have a fun there!


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## indian_foxhound

@Firemaster here is your lca in 2013

*LCA Tejas display Aero India 2013*






*Flight Testing Of Gripen E - Joint Test Program Of
The Next Generation Gripen [Aero India 2013]*





*New Test Technique For Flight Evaluation Of Infra
Red Flares [Aero India 2013]*

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## indian_foxhound

*Indo-Russian Supersonic Cruise Missile, BrahMos -
From Concept To Product [Aero India 2013]*





*Aero India 2013 Big business and a celebration of
aviation, past and present Video*


----------



## Iggy

From the looks of it, companys are more interested in pitching UAV's to Indian defence market this time..


----------



## SpArK

Beretta PX4 9mm handgun currently being tested by the Indian Army & paramilitary forces

Livefist

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## nair

Happened to cross Bidar air base which is/was the base of Surya kiran.......Can anyone tell me surya kiran is still there???? If yes why are they not participating in Aero 2013.


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## indian_foxhound

*Awesome display of aircraft at Bangalore Air
Show - Tv9*





*Indian air show bangalore 2013 day-2*


----------



## sancho

seiko said:


> From the looks of it, companys are more interested in pitching UAV's to Indian defence market this time..



Which is not surprising, UAVs are not only the future anymore, but are important in all current conflicts as well. They will take over key roles and Indian industry is still not up to date in this field.



nair said:


> Happened to cross Bidar air base which is/was the base of Surya kiran.......Can anyone tell me surya kiran is still there???? If yes why are they not participating in Aero 2013.





> The Indian Air Force is planning to induct 20 more Hawk Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) aircraft from the British BAE Systems for its aerobatic team Surya Kiran which has been grounded since last year.



http://articles.timesofindia.indiat.../33843597_1_hawk-ajts-surya-kiran-kiran-mk-ii

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## Abingdonboy

nair said:


> Happened to cross Bidar air base which is/was the base of Surya kiran.......Can anyone tell me surya kiran is still there???? If yes why are they not participating in Aero 2013.


Surya Kiran was disbanded shortlly after Aero India 2011 due to a shortage of trainers. The team will be raised again soon with the BAE Hawk AJT for which a seperate order for 20 AJTs will be made soon.



jiki said:


> reached banglore............ going to show tmrw as business visitor any mbr of pdf will be der plz replyyy



Lucky you! Be sure to snap plenty of pics and post them here mate!!


+ could I make a special request for you to try and get a few pics of the Garuds?!!



seiko said:


> From the looks of it, companys are more interested in pitching UAV's to Indian defence market this time..



The Indian military and even federal and state law enforcement are looking at UAV systems and it has been said there something like a requirement for 1000+ UAVs for such forces by 2020-22.

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## Abingdonboy




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## SpArK

India's Lakshya-II aerial target drone on display at the DRDO pavilion


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## indian_foxhound

*Aero India 2013: Big business and a celebration of
aviation, past and present*





*Aero India: Firms eye India's defence market at
air show*


----------



## Abingdonboy

IAF's SARANG team- *"if not for the rotors, we would have been closer!!"*

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## Abingdonboy




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## cloud_9



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## Abingdonboy

SpArK said:


> Beretta PX4 9mm handgun currently being tested by the Indian Army & paramilitary forces
> 
> Livefist


Interesting-I've not heard any such plans for procuring a new sidearm for the IA other than for the SF. This seems to be for the regulars- must be part of the F-INSAS program.


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## indian_foxhound

@WebMaster can you make this sticky? Its getting difficult for me to search my post as i use cell most of the time
Thanx





*Military might on show as Aero India 2013 opens*





*Aero India 2013 Air show 7th Feb 2013*


----------



## Abingdonboy

Airshow: Eurocopter would manufacture in India if wins contract | Reuters

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## indian_foxhound

*Spectacular aerobatics at Aero India Show*





*RAW VIDEO: India Hosts One of Asias Biggest Air
Shows*






*Air Show in Bengalore:06/02/13 - Studio N*


----------



## indian_foxhound

*Air Show in Bengalore:06/02/13 - Studio N*





*Global firms eye lucrative deals at India air show*


----------



## SEAL

AI 2013 is much better compared to previous ones.


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## Abingdonboy

SEAL said:


> AI 2013 is much better compared to previous ones.



Some say it is an anti-climax followign A1-2011 now that the MMRCA is down to 1 vendor.


But by all accounts A1-2013 is bigger then A1-2011 it is just that there are less fighter jet flight demos.


----------



## indian_foxhound

*DASSAULT RAFALE AT AIRSHOW*

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## Abingdonboy




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## Hellraiser007

seiko said:


> Sorry for the ignorance, but what it will do?



Watch the video at 14:20









*Inflated floatation gear.*

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## Abingdonboy

Hellraiser007 said:


> Inflated flotation Gear



I'm not convinced mate- what is the point in this system for a system that is designed for the Army and AF?


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## Abingdonboy

indian_foxhound said:


>



I like Vishnu Som- always seems to know what he is talking about!


----------



## Hellraiser007

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm not convinced mate- what is the point in this system for a system that is designed for the Army and AF?



May be they are testing the tech demonstrator.


----------



## subincb

Abingdonboy said:


> Airshow: Eurocopter would manufacture in India if wins contract | Reuters



By the time the deal falls thru, HAL would be flying LUH. Lowest bidder, negotiations etc are gonna take a long time. I guess LUH ground test vehicle is ready. Unlike ALH and LCH, this is not gonna take that much time. And this is just HAL's baby. No ADA involved. If the engine is ready they should fly this year itself or atleast early next year.


----------



## indian_foxhound

Abingdonboy said:


> I like Vishnu Som- always seems to know what he is talking about!



Yap man of his word.


----------



## Hellraiser007

*Aero India 2013: Industry gears up for Indian naval helicopter tender*







Contenders for the Indian Navys naval multi-role helicopter (NMRH) programme expect an RfP to be released later this year.

At the Aero India exhibition on 7 February, representatives from various companies extolled the virtues of their respective platforms in meeting the naval requirement, which is expected to be for 75 to 120 aircraft.

George Barton, VP of business development for ship and aviation systems at Lockheed Martin, said the MH-60R would be offered to the Indian Navy in conjunction with the Sierra variant.

The Indian Navy will have its own requirement, but we feel that the Romeo and Sierra combination will meet all of these, Barton said.

Sikorsky will be the lead on the bid, as with the orders for previous MH-60Rs. 

Barton explained that specific requests were made by the navy in order to modify the platform, and the offset will be a key part of the programme when it comes to fruition. Technology transfer will be included, although Barton could not go into more detail.

The PBL support of the aircraft is currently a significant part of MH-60 programmes, and Barton said that this would extend to the Indian requirement. 

The Indian Government will want a direct sale, not an FMS, Barton added.

Last week the 150th MH-60R was delivered to the US Navy and a fifth generation computer upgrade is due to be delivered in the middle of this year.

Lutz Bertling, president and CEO of Eurocopter, told a media briefing during the show that the low number of military competitions gave greater importance to the Indian market.

Eurocopter is offering its EC-725 for the programme, and Bertling said: We are not shy in co-operating with other nations. Our helicopters know the Indian Sky.

With regards to declining budget rumours, he said that this is more likely to affect future requirements, not ones that are already active.

We have zero indication that this [budget decline] will affect on-going tenders, Bertling explained. If not you would have to take steps backwards and change RfPs.

The Indian Navy is also looking to procure 16 naval utility helicopters, for which it is expected to make a decision on soon. The competition is worth $1 billion and the finalists are NHIndustries' NH90 and the Sikorsky S-70B.

Aero India 2013: Industry gears up for Indian naval helicopter tender - News - Shephard

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## faithfulguy

Another prove that Aero India is pretty much a forum for foreign makers to sell their hardware to India.


----------



## newdelhinsa

faithfulguy said:


> Another prove that Aero India is pretty much a forum for foreign makers to sell their hardware to India.



So what you thought, why they are here, to play ping pong ?

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## Paan Singh

India seriously needs to think bout weapon import.
In case of war,we will be begging to them for spares

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## indiatester

*Security in the display area*






*ALH*





*LCH*


----------



## indiatester

*Paratroopers?*


----------



## Skull and Bones

Paan Singh said:


> India seriously needs to think bout weapon import.
> In case of war,we will be begging to them for spares



It doesn't work like that. Platforms are acquired with extra spares. And there are contract signed regarding supply of spares under all viable conditions.

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## Hellraiser007

Skull and Bones said:


> It doesn't work like that. Platforms are acquired with extra spares. And there are contract signed regarding supply of spares under all viable conditions.



All the purchases include TOT and setting up plants in India

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## Abingdonboy

indiatester said:


> *Paratroopers?*



Nah, just some Ghataks most likely. Even regular infantry are taught to be able to fast rope these days.


----------



## Skull and Bones

Hellraiser007 said:


> All the purchases include TOT and setting up plants in India



Even if it's not ToT, unless we conduct another nuclear test, there isn't any fear of not getting spares.

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## Abingdonboy

Skull and Bones said:


> Even if it's not ToT, unless we conduct another nuclear test, there isn't any fear of not getting spares.



Exactly- sanctions seem to have last a nasty and lasting scare on the Indians concesnous but people eed to understand that such actions are unlikely to happen again. Not just because the sanctiones were trigged by a unique event, but also because the India of today and tomorow isn't the India of the 80s/90s. Today India is a growing economic powehouse and the West is looking to emerging nations to stop the rot in their own "devloped" economies, India has made a lot of freinds since the sanctions and today India's reach and soft power is such that it is almost universally liked and favoured. There are many other factors but I won't go in to them.


Point is, the fear of sanctions is no longer there for India so the defence procurement should be done with a free hand with little thought given to this aspect.

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## Koovie




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## Hellraiser007

Skull and Bones said:


> Even if it's not ToT, unless we conduct another nuclear test, there isn't any fear of not getting spares.



The deals which are going through now a days are different than what we have done in 1990's and 80's.

Europe is slowing down and they are in the need of capital. India is offering them capital + Joint development. At the same time the technology of the product which they are selling to India needs to needs to be transferred and local plants should be setup(50 % of deal money has to be invested inside India).

You take MMRCA,Brahmos, PAK-FA every deal works like this. No need to depend on spares on other as they will be manufactured in India.

Take example of Lahat, India purchased them and now they customized that product according to our requirements and has upgraded it .

* These deals are like we will give you money you have to transfer the advance tech of yours to us and help us build a production line in India, In future we will develop the product upgrade jointly *

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## sancho

Abingdonboy said:


> I'm not convinced mate- what is the point in this system for a system that is designed for the Army and AF?



It's for IN or ICG and is a safty feature for emergency landing in water.


----------



## JanjaWeed

*Rockwell Collins Signs Agreement with Tata Power Strategic*



> Rockwell Collins and Tata Power Strategic Engineering Division, a system integrator in the Indian defense industry, signed teaming agreement as part of their pursuit of the Indian Air Force Software Defined Radio program.
> Together, our companies provide the expertise to deliver the best-value software defined radio (SDR) solution for the Indian Air Force while offering an unmatched opportunity for technology transfer, said Ram Prasad, managing director of Rockwell Collins India. This announcement formalizes what has been a long-standing and positive working relationship with Tata Power SED and will provide the Indian Air Force with advanced air and ground connectivity to meet their requirements. This relationship is very strategic in nature and would provide Indian defense with not only a local, within country, long-term support and maintenance provider, but also access to state-of-the-art technology.
> Rahul Chaudhry, CEO of Tata Power SED remarked, Tata Power SED has a four-decade long defense research and development experience and has now emerged as one of the largest private sector defense prime contractors. Our teaming agreement with Rockwell Collins for the Air Forces Software Defined Radio Program allows us to harness our core competencies in the hi-tech arena of SDR for which Rockwell Collins is an acknowledged world leader with proven solutions. With this collaboration, we bring to India a proven hi-tech communication technology with indigenous security, platform and system engineering as a trustworthy solution.
> Under the terms of the agreement, Tata Power SED is the prime contractor and Rockwell Collins will provide technology for the teams software defined radio offering. If selected, the team of Tata and Rockwell Collins plan to perform the majority of the program effort in India, providing faster delivery times, as well as more responsive in-country service and support for the customer.
> Rockwell Collins is a leader in airborne tactical communications, having provided more than 36,000 radios on 180 platforms worldwide.



Aviation Today :: Rockwell Collins Signs Agreement with Tata Power Strategic


----------



## indiatester

*Tejas*













*Rafale*

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## Skull and Bones

Hellraiser007 said:


> The deals which are going through now a days are different than what we have done in 1990's and 80's.



No doubt about that, back in the 90s India was like another sub Saharan nation growing a modest rate of 3%. But more than money, it's the chance of keeping their military industrial complexes running is at stake here. 

Back in the cold war, all the western powers invested heavily in their MICs to tackle the Soviet bogeyman. And after the disintegration of USSR, they're left with huge military industry infrastructure and without any in-house demand. So the European states seems desperate just for the sake of keeping their population's employment safe.

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## Invincible INDIAN

MH 60R





EC-725





NH90

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## indiatester

*AEW&C*













Sorry couldn't go to the stalls as children < 16 not allowed into the exhibition area, and I couldn't leave my kid.
Over all crowd was comfortably lower than last show (thanks to me going on a week day this time).
Arrangements were excellent.

At one point, there were a number of eagles over the venue and they drove them away with crackers launched into their midst.
I'll try to see if I can make it to the stalls if I get time.

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## Koovie




----------



## Abingdonboy

sancho said:


> It's for IN or ICG and is a safty feature for emergency landing in water.



Yes, but will the IN or ICG be operating the LCH?




@indiatester did you snap any pics of Garuds perchance?


----------



## indiatester

Abingdonboy said:


> Nah, just some Ghataks most likely. Even regular infantry are taught to be able to fast rope these days.


I would have loved it if there was an announcement system detailing the display. It was there last time. Missing today.

BTW: Watching those soldiers hanging onto the rope is quite nerve wracking. If that is what "regular infantry" is taught, I'd pee my pants if I were to go against special forces

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## indiatester

Abingdonboy said:


> @indiatester did you snap any pics of Garuds perchance?


I tried to locate them, but didn't find any. I'll try during next visit.

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## Abingdonboy

Invincible INDIAN said:


> MH 60R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EC-725
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NH90


MH-60R all the way!!


+ I would whether the IN would be happy with their aviation wing being dominated by US-origin a/c.

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## Abingdonboy

indiatester said:


> I tried to locate them, but didn't find any. I'll try during next visit.


Thanks buddy- much appreciated.


And would it be too much to ask for you to keep an eye out ans snap,if you could, the ARFF present at the show?



indiatester said:


> I would have loved it if there was an announcement system detailing the display. It was there last time. Missing today.
> 
> BTW: Watching those soldiers hanging onto the rope is quite nerve wracking. If that is what "regular infantry" is taught, I'd pee my pants if I were to go against special forces


hahaha lol!


----------



## RISING SUN

All good when ends in good, better safety first. They should have more on station time rather than just in air. This will make positive impact.

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## S-DUCT

crossposting...

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## S-DUCT

crossposting..

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## indian_foxhound

*Aero India 2013: Indian AEW&C*





*Aero India 2013*





*Flying beauties at Bangalore air show*


----------



## indian_foxhound

*AeroIndia Bangalore-Red Bull*


----------



## S-DUCT

> [PDV exo-atmospheric interceptors Ka-band RF seeker/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the antenna-array design of the Ashwin AESA-based low-level gapfiller radar now being developed by LRDE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posted below is all relevant data on the WRCE engine for futuristic DRDO-developed UAVs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A new smaller X-band RF-seeker is now being developed for the air-launched version of BrahMos-1 supersonic land-attack cruise missile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posted below is the DRDOs integrated radar-cum-EW systems testing range at Chitraguda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swathi weapons locating radar
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian Navys GSAT-7 fleet communications satellite
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

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## indian_foxhound

*Bangalore Air show 2013*


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## indian_foxhound

*airshow 1*





*airshow 2*





*airshow*

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## indian_foxhound

*airshow 6*





*airshow7*





*airshow 8*





*airshow9*





*airshow10*

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## indian_foxhound

*airshow11*





*airshow12*





*airshow13*





*airshow14*

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## indian_foxhound

*airshow*





*airshow16*





*airshow17*





*airshow17*





*airshow18*

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## indian_foxhound

*airshow19*





*airshow20*

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## Abingdonboy

@indian_foxhound LOVING your vids!

Are you the one who filmed them?

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## BlueDot_in_Space



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## BlueDot_in_Space



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## indian_foxhound

Abingdonboy said:


> @indian_foxhound LOVING your vids!
> 
> Are you the one who filmed them?



Yap not all but some... 
Thanx
Will be uploading more.

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## Abingdonboy

indian_foxhound said:


> Yap not all but some...
> Thanx
> Will be uploading more.



Could you try and snap a few pics/vid of Garuds and IAF ARFF please sir?


----------



## indian_foxhound

Abingdonboy said:


> Could you try and snap a few pics/vid of Garuds and IAF ARFF please sir?



Ohk ill  and m not sir

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## BlueDot_in_Space

*Tejas with its air brakes deployed during a slow pass maneuver*

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## Abingdonboy

indian_foxhound said:


> Ohk ill  and m not sir



Thanks brother!

+ btw @@indian_foxhound ARFF is Aircraft rescue and firefighting, so pics of the IAF's fire trucks would be excellant-if you could!


----------



## indian_foxhound

Abingdonboy said:


> Thanks brother!
> 
> + btw @@indian_foxhound ARFF is Aircraft rescue and firefighting, so pics of the IAF's fire trucks would be excellant-if you could!



I know abot it. If ill see trucks tomorrow,will click it... dont worry

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## Abingdonboy

indian_foxhound said:


> I know abot it. If ill see trucks tomorrow,will click it... dont worry



Cool bro- just thought I'd make sure, most people wouldn't know what ARFF is lol!


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## indian_foxhound

Abingdonboy said:


> Cool bro- just thought I'd make sure, most people wouldn't know what ARFF is lol!



I have one few mins documentry on them but that in my desktop(pune) and am here at banglore.
Well i dont wanna know whats arff stands for but wanna know how you delete your post... I don't know how to do it 



Abingdonboy said:


> Cool bro- just thought I'd make sure, most people wouldn't know what ARFF is lol!



I have one few mins documentry on them but that in my desktop(pune) and am here at banglore.
Well i dont wanna know whats arff stands for but wanna know how you delete your post... I don't know how to do it


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## Abingdonboy

LCH's rear wheel housing looks wrong:






Looking foreward to seeing this redesigned.

Other than that, the LCH is shaping into a VERY nice package!

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## Abingdonboy

indian_foxhound said:


> I have one few mins documentry on them but that in my desktop(pune) and am here at banglore.
> Well i dont wanna know whats arff stands for but wanna know how you delete your post... I don't know how to do it
> 
> 
> 
> I have one few mins documentry on them but that in my desktop(pune) and am here at banglore.
> Well i dont wanna know whats arff stands for but wanna know how you delete your post... I don't know how to do it


Cool- is it about Indian ARFF? 

+ you have to become a senior member to be able to delete your posts mate!

Looking at your post count you should be able to do it in a few weeks! 


(sernior member is after 2000 posta)


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## indian_foxhound

Abingdonboy said:


> Cool- is it about Indian ARFF?
> 
> + you have to become a senior member to be able to delete your posts mate!
> 
> Looking at your post count you should be able to do it in a few weeks!
> 
> 
> (sernior member is after 2000 posta)



Yap its indian one...

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## BlueDot_in_Space

Abingdonboy said:


> LCH's rear wheel housing looks wrong:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking foreward to seeing this redesigned.
> 
> Other than that, the LCH is shaping into a VERY nice package!



With all the new modifications, it must have gained weight. It was already overweight by 500 kgs. HAL should start work on IA and IN variant and also IMRH derived heavy attack helo.


----------



## Abingdonboy

indian_foxhound said:


> Yap its indian one...



Mate whenever you get the chance it'd be great if you could upload that vid onto YT!!


----------



## Water Car Engineer

Abingdonboy said:


> LCH's rear wheel housing looks wrong:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking foreward to seeing this redesigned.
> 
> Other than that, the LCH is shaping into a VERY nice package!
















What they showed in the original CGI, model, and mock up I think is better.

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## Abingdonboy

BlueDot_in_Space said:


> With all the new modifications, it must have gained weight. It was already overweight by 500 kgs. HAL should start work on IA and IN variant and also IMRH derived heavy attack helo.




IMHO the IMRH has very limited prospects Indian military service- only for the IAF to replace the MI-17 V5s but considering the IAF just bought these birds and made follow-on orders so it will be 15 years atleast before these birds need replacing.And with the IN on the hunt for foriegn N-MRHs they don't seem ton have any plans on procuring the IMRH. 


Additionally I'd say that before the decade is out the IA will be coming for the IAF's medium lift (Mi-17) and Heavy lift (CH-47F) helos.


----------



## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy




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## BlueDot_in_Space

Abingdonboy said:


> IMHO the IMRH has very limited prospects Indian military service- only for the IAF to replace the MI-17 V5s but considering the IAF just bought these birds and made follow-on orders so it will be 15 years atleast before these birds need replacing.And with the IN on the hunt for foriegn N-MRHs they don't seem ton have any plans on procuring the IMRH.
> 
> 
> Additionally I'd say that before the decade is out the IA will be coming for the IAF's medium lift (Mi-17) and Heavy lift (CH-47F) helos.



And what do you suggest we do after 15 years? again go for foren maal? May be, today their is no need, but in the future, after 10-15 years, there will be a requirement to replace the IAF & IN fleets and IA may also try to add heavy helos to their stable. HAL should not wait for the armed forces RFPs to start the development work because design, development and testing will itself take atleast a decade. If the heli is not ready by start of nest decade, it will be a repeat of HTT-40 saga.


----------



## Abingdonboy

BlueDot_in_Space said:


> And what do you suggest we do after 15 years? again go for foren maal? May be, today their is no need, but in the future, after 10-15 years, there will be a requirement to replace the IAF & IN fleets and IA may also try to add heavy helos to their stable. HAL should not wait for the armed forces RFPs to start the development work because design, development and testing will itself take atleast a decade. If the heli is not ready by start of nest decade, it will be a repeat of HTT-40 saga.



I agree- work should be done looking at future requirements.I should had been clear- there is no rush or hurry for HAL to begin work on the IMRH as there is no immediate need for such a machine right now.

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## BlueDot_in_Space

Abingdonboy said:


> I agree- work should be done looking at future requirements.I should had been clear- there is no rush or hurry for HAL to begin work on the IMRH as there is no immediate need for such a machine right now.

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## Abingdonboy



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## BlueDot_in_Space

*NLCA auto ramp mode description (audio and video out of sync) (one of many steps towards unmanned operations)*






*About LCA wake testing that is currently underway *

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## Abingdonboy

BlueDot_in_Space said:


> *NLCA auto ramp mode description (audio and video out of sync) (one of many steps towards unmanned operations)*



Very interesting- AFAIK the IN's MIG-29K/KUB do not have such a feature. HAL/ADA are an ambitious bunch, aren't they!

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## Abingdonboy

Should shut a few people up:

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## BlueDot_in_Space

Abingdonboy said:


> Very interesting- AFAIK the IN's MIG-29K/KUB do not have such a feature. HAL/ADA are an ambitious bunch, aren't they!



Ambitious and capable. What they need is more R&D funds.

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## BlueDot_in_Space

*Breathtaking!!!*

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## faithfulguy

A very nice air show. The manufactures are bringing out their best to acquire the huge Indian defense market.

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## BlueDot_in_Space

*Breathtaking: Desi Boy Tejas*

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## Water Car Engineer

Another one for *blue *

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## BlueDot_in_Space

Water Car Engineer said:


> Another one for *blue *



I cant breath

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## BlueDot_in_Space

*Does India have the liberty to increase the Brahmos Missile range ?
ANS: Yes
*

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## sudhir007

*N-LCA WITH IAC-1*

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## sudhir007



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## Roybot

>



They changed the design of the superstructure? And is that ELTA EL/M-2248 MF-STAR AESA radar?

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## sudhir007



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## sudhir007



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## anant_s

Army's First Rudra






Handing over Ceremony






Cabin

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## Jason bourne

anant_s said:


> Army's First Dhruva
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Handing over Ceremony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cabin



Rudra not dhruva

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## anant_s

Jason bourne said:


> Rudra not dhruva



My bad Sir , 
Corrected


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## Roybot

Can anyone identify these equipments? Not seen on normal Dhruvs


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## Star Wars

Ill be going tomorrow !!!

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## Arav_Rana



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## Star Wars

arav said:


>



WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooo ...i cant wait to be there


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## The Deterrent

Roybot said:


> Can anyone identify these equipments? Not seen on normal Dhruvs



Missile Approach Warning Systems (MAWS) perhaps?

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## trident2010

AhaseebA said:


> Missile Approach Warning Systems (MAWS) perhaps?



what are the chances for the attack helicopter to evade the missile attack with its reletively low speed and altitude?

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## indian_foxhound

*indian air show bangalore 2013 day -3*


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## indian_foxhound

*indian air show bangalore 2013 day -3*





*Hindustan Aeronautics Limited [HAL] - Product
Portfolio And Design & Manufacturing Goals Till
2020*





*Aerospace Products - Industry Challenges In
Design To Deployment And Beyond*

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## The Deterrent

trident2010 said:


> what are the chances for the attack helicopter to evade the missile attack with its reletively low speed and altitude?



I don't know, it depends on the missile and the defence system of the Heli. If the warning system and decoy dispensing system of the heli is good enough, it can take on a primitive MANPAD at low altitudes.

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## indian_foxhound

*Indo-Russian Supersonic Cruise Missile, BrahMos -
From Concept To Product [Aero India 2013]*

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## indian_foxhound

*Aero India Firms eye India's defence market at air
show*

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## imperialmen

I am there all the time. But it has become boring to watch the same planes do the same maneuvers again and again for 4 days now. Unfortunately I forgot to take the camera to college all these days. But tomorrow I will be ready with camera


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## ptltejas

trident2010 said:


> what are the chances for the attack helicopter to evade the missile attack with its relatively low speed and altitude?



well nothing but there could be counter measures like the aluminium foils and flares


----------



## Abingdonboy

Star Wars said:


> Ill be going tomorrow !!!





imperialmen said:


> I am there all the time. But it has become boring to watch the same planes do the same maneuvers again and again for 4 days now. Unfortunately I forgot to take the camera to college all these days. But tomorrow I will be ready with camera



Be sure to take some pics of Garuds mate!



Star Wars said:


> Ill be going tomorrow !!!





imperialmen said:


> I am there all the time. But it has become boring to watch the same planes do the same maneuvers again and again for 4 days now. Unfortunately I forgot to take the camera to college all these days. But tomorrow I will be ready with camera



Be sure to take some pics of Garuds mate!

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## garibnawaz

What happened to the Surinamese ALH? Weren't they supposed to hand over them in Aero India 2013?

India ready to deliver three copters to Suriname army - Stabroek News - Georgetown, Guyana

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## farhan_9909

still waiting for a better quality video of lca performance

watched 1 but the quality and resolution was low.

and f-16 aswell

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## imperialmen

The Tejas is pretty loud for such a tiny plane. Even the bigger Rafaele wasn't that loud. Tejas is very very loud while taking off compared to other jets.

@Abingdonboy I doubt I can capture pics of Garuds as the police don't let us near the pilots(and commandos) resting along the road under trees(Bangalore is a very leafy and the air force base is in a very country-side type place). I am not going inside as it will cost us a bomb. Instead we will be climbing a building next to the air-force station wall.

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## sancho

Roybot said:


> Can anyone identify these equipments? Not seen on normal Dhruvs



They are parts of the new EW system, including RWRs, MAWS, or LWR, providing 360° coverage (see the rear pic below the fuselage), not to forget the flares that are now attached to the sides of the airframe too.
We have seen similar sensors on the AW 101 VIP as well:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-n6c3Mwcbgpw/UDpwjB-5JQI/AAAAAAAAB6Q/JHMKtKxXVPk/s1600/AW-101.jpg


And the Dhruv will have these with the latest varients (including LCH) too.

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## PRINCE_THE_SHOWSTOPPER

Roybot said:


> Can anyone identify these equipments? Not seen on normal Dhruvs


i can identify the 3rd circle near the nose of the helicopter..it is called LWR (laser warning receiver)

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## anant_s

Star Wars said:


> Ill be going tomorrow !!!



Lucky You!
Have a great time

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## Water Car Engineer

Roybot said:


> They changed the design of the superstructure? And is that ELTA EL/M-2248 MF-STAR AESA radar?



No, It's the same old model.










Design is the same.

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## Agent_47



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## mridul

indian_foxhound said:


> @WebMaster can you make this sticky? Its getting difficult for me to search my post as i use cell most of the time
> Thanx
> 
> *Military might on show as Aero India 2013 opens*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Aero India 2013 Air show 7th Feb 2013*



India TV sucks big time...the worst journalists ever....they cannot even differentiate between indigenous Tejas with a single engine and French MMRCA twin engine fighter Rafale. It is really a sad state of affairs...we pick people like these to report matters to the nation...


----------



## Abingdonboy

Water Car Engineer said:


> No, It's the same old model.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Design is the same.



The island looks slightly different.

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## RISING SUN

*Northrop Grumman ambitions stalled by missile control treaty*
Northrop Grumman is *unable to offer* the Triton UAV for an Indian Navy requirement for a maritime ISR platform *until government-level discussions dictate the future of the purchase*.

The Global Hawk Triton UAV is anticipating the first flight testing next month in the US.

The UAV is being procured alongside the Boeing P-8 maritime surveillance aircraft for the US Navy, a platform that is also on contract to begin being delivered to the Indian Navy this year.

*They want to follow the US model; P-8 and Triton*, Greg Miller, business development for the Triton for the company, told Shephard at the Aero India exhibition. *The Indian Navy agrees with the US requirements, which exactly fits our sweet spot.*

Although India could potentially be interested in purchasing the platform, *the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) voluntary international agreement, which India is not yet a part of, prevents sales of high altitude heavy payload-carrying aircraft to the country*. 

Until that *gets resolved we stay here to maintain that interest*, Miller added.

He explained that this is a *government-to-government issue*, although the Indian Navy has released an RfI for a HALE maritime ISR platform.

The US Navy, meanwhile, requires 68 Triton aircraft according to the programme of record, with three on contract under a system development agreement.

The company is working towards starting the flight testing in California in March, and it is expected to be completed by the end of that month. It will then be transferred to Pax River for naval testing.

The P-8 and Triton together will replace the US Navys P-3 fleet, with 117 and 68 platforms required of each respectively.

They want to save the P-8 for more taxing issues, Miller explained. That model seems to be catching on.

The Australian Government is also very forward leaning and optimistic about the Triton, and was originally a development partner. It is also due to receive the P-8 aircraft.

Meanwhile, following the submission of its response to the Indian Navys RfI for an AEW requirement, Northrop Grumman is waiting for a pending decision from the Indian MoD.

The navy is looking to purchase a fixed wing carrier-based AEW platform to complement its rotary wing AEW platform, a 2010 RfI explained.

The company is offering its *E-2D aircraft*, currently on contract with the US Navy.

*This aeroplane was very much designed to meet the requirements of the [Indian Navy] RfI*, Tom Trudell, manager of international business development for the E-2/C-2 IPT for the company, explained. Weve responded to the RfI and the E-2D has been approved by the US Government for India.

Current operators of the E2 include the US and French navies and the Japanese, Taiwanese and Egyptian air forces. The only customer for the E-2D is the US, so if the Indian Navy chooses to purchase the platform it will be the first international customer.

Nine of the contracted 20 E-2Ds have been delivered to the US to date, while a potential 75 are outlined in the programme requirements. Two platforms will be delivered this year, with IOC being reached in 2015.

Malaysia and the UAE have also been approved by the US Government, and discussions have taken place. The UAE is quite advanced in its programme development and Northrop Grumman is waiting for a decision on the contract. 
Aero India 2013: Northrop Grumman ambitions stalled by missile control treaty - News - Shephard


----------



## Agent_47

These pics are giving me multiple orgasms.

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## indian_foxhound

*Israel showcases missile defence system at Aero
India show Video*


----------



## indian_foxhound

*Bangalore Air show 2013*

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## Abingdonboy

RISING SUN said:


> *Northrop Grumman ambitions stalled by missile control treaty*
> Northrop Grumman is *unable to offer* the Triton UAV for an Indian Navy requirement for a maritime ISR platform *until government-level discussions dictate the future of the purchase*.
> 
> The Global Hawk Triton UAV is anticipating the first flight testing next month in the US.
> 
> The UAV is being procured alongside the Boeing P-8 maritime surveillance aircraft for the US Navy, a platform that is also on contract to begin being delivered to the Indian Navy this year.
> 
> &#8216;*They want to follow the US model; P-8 and Triton*,&#8217; Greg Miller, business development for the Triton for the company, told Shephard at the Aero India exhibition. &#8216;*The Indian Navy agrees with the US&#8217; requirements, which exactly fits our sweet spot.*&#8217;
> 
> Although India could potentially be interested in purchasing the platform, *the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) voluntary international agreement, which India is not yet a part of, prevents sales of high altitude heavy payload-carrying aircraft to the country*.
> 
> &#8216;Until that *gets resolved we stay here to maintain that interest*,&#8217; Miller added.
> 
> He explained that this is a *government-to-government issue*, although the Indian Navy has released an RfI for a HALE maritime ISR platform.
> 
> The US Navy, meanwhile, requires 68 Triton aircraft according to the programme of record, with three on contract under a system development agreement.
> 
> The company is working towards starting the flight testing in California in March, and it is expected to be completed by the end of that month. It will then be transferred to Pax River for naval testing.
> 
> The P-8 and Triton together will replace the US Navy&#8217;s P-3 fleet, with 117 and 68 platforms required of each respectively.
> 
> &#8216;They want to save the P-8 for more taxing issues,&#8217; Miller explained. &#8216;That model seems to be catching on.&#8217;
> 
> The Australian Government is also &#8216;very forward leaning and optimistic&#8217; about the Triton, and was originally a development partner. It is also due to receive the P-8 aircraft.
> 
> Meanwhile, following the submission of its response to the Indian Navy&#8217;s RfI for an AEW requirement, Northrop Grumman is waiting for a pending decision from the Indian MoD.
> 
> The navy is looking to purchase a fixed wing carrier-based AEW platform to complement its rotary wing AEW platform, a 2010 RfI explained.
> 
> The company is offering its *E-2D aircraft*, currently on contract with the US Navy.
> 
> &#8216;*This aeroplane was very much designed to meet the requirements of the [Indian Navy] RfI*,&#8217; Tom Trudell, manager of international business development for the E-2/C-2 IPT for the company, explained. &#8216;We&#8217;ve responded to the RfI and the E-2D has been approved by the US Government for India.&#8217;
> 
> Current operators of the E2 include the US and French navies and the Japanese, Taiwanese and Egyptian air forces. The only customer for the E-2D is the US, so if the Indian Navy chooses to purchase the platform it will be the first international customer.
> 
> Nine of the contracted 20 E-2Ds have been delivered to the US to date, while a potential 75 are outlined in the programme requirements. Two platforms will be delivered this year, with IOC being reached in 2015.
> 
> Malaysia and the UAE have also been approved by the US Government, and discussions have taken place. The UAE is quite advanced in its programme development and Northrop Grumman is waiting for a decision on the contract.
> Aero India 2013: Northrop Grumman ambitions stalled by missile control treaty - News - Shephard


This is interrsting- I hope the govt-govt talks can yeild a good result. Interesting-


> &#8216;The Indian Navy agrees with the US&#8217; requirements
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/228397-aero-india-2013-a-31.html#ixzz2KLHPDQvX




IN is very foreward thinking!

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## Abingdonboy

Abingdonboy said:


> The island looks slightly different.



Having looked back- it doesn't look as though the design has changed at all:






Render is from 2-3 years ago.



For some reason I had missed the fact the IAC-1 will have *6* AESA panels! lol! This is the first time I am noticing this for some reason!



Roybot said:


> They changed the design of the superstructure? And is that ELTA EL/M-2248 MF-STAR AESA radar?



Yes sir- same as on the P-15A/B and P-17A.

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## Rikbo

While no mention is made of the S-70B for the NMRH proposal, you can it expect it to be offered as well as the MH-60R/S. If the S-70B wins the current 16 A/C MRH competition, I would expect it to become the front runner for the NMRH competition. As I have noted before, the S-70B was made for the international market place and can typically be easier to customize for unique customer requirements.

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## Abingdonboy

DRDO&#8217;s integrated radar-cum-EW systems testing range at Chitraguda.

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy



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## indushek

The NH-90 looks sexy with those curves, don't know about capabilities. $hit just checked seems there are engine problems and issues with carrying troops too!!!! better go for the proven platforms then.


----------



## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

Rikbo said:


> While no mention is made of the S-70B for the NMRH proposal, you can it expect it to be offered as well as the MH-60R/S. If the S-70B wins the current 16 A/C MRH competition, I would expect it to become the front runner for the NMRH competition. As I have noted before, the S-70B was made for the international market place and can typically be easier to customize for unique customer requirements.


Sir, after looking into it, surely the MH-60R is the best and most capable fit for the IN? It is the type the USN flies so why go for the S-70B with many of the high-end Lockhead Martin (and others) tech missing?

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## Abingdonboy



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## Water Car Engineer



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## SMStealth

Dear Posters,

Can anybody tell me how to post pics...

Regards


----------



## Roybot

SuperManouverableStealth said:


> Dear Posters,
> 
> Can anybody tell me how to post pics...
> 
> Regards



Go to tinypic.com or imgur.com, upload the pic there, copy the link and post it here withing image



tags.

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## SMStealth



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## SMStealth



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## sudhir007



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## Mirza Jatt

very nice pics..thanks for uploading


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## indian_foxhound

*Aero India 2013 : Su-30MKI*





*USAF C-17 Globemaster III Airshow Aero India, 2013 *HD**





*Rafale F16 Fighter Jets Airshow Aero India 2013 *HD**





*Aero India Show (2013)*

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## S-DUCT

UAC/HAL MTA Concept video

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## S-DUCT

UAC/HAL MTA

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## Anony

Can anyone post video of LCA Tejas from aero India 2013. Thanks in advance.


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## indian_foxhound

Anony said:


> Can anyone post video of LCA Tejas from aero India 2013. Thanks in advance.



Its there... Seach it you il get it


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## S-DUCT

ABHYAS :target drone


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## indian_foxhound

*Aero India 2013: Flying Bulls.*

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## indian_foxhound

*rafale n sukhoi takeoff*





*redbull stunt1*





*redbull2*





*redbull3*

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## indian_foxhound

*redbull4*





*shukhoi IAF*





*show1*





*show2*





*show4*

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## indian_foxhound

@Anony



*tejas*










*US AF carrier jet*

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## BlueDot_in_Space

^^^^^^^^^^^

PS gupta was claiming this being Nirbhay when ADE put out a tender detailing schematics of ABHAYS.


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## indian_foxhound

*Russian Knights Sukhoi Su-27s*





*Feb 7, 2013 India_Bangalore hosts international
aerospace show*

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## Water Car Engineer

S-DUCT said:


> ABHYAS :target drone



Nirbhay's lil brother?

The drone's range is 500 km.


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## trident2010

SuperManouverableStealth said:


>




Buri nazar waale tera mooh kaala

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## Rikbo

As a former Sikorsky employee & expert on the S-70B let me say they are different, most notably with regards to the mission system. (The airframes are both made by Sikorsky). The 60R & 70B are very similar with regards to mission capability and the mission systems they contain. The S-70B was designed for the international market place. It was designed to be easily modified and tailored for each customer. This is due to the fact that most, if not all, international customers will want to integrate capabilities or equipment not current available on an existing configuration of that aircraft. The MH-60R was designed for the US navy. The system has to be "dumbed down" to create an exportable version and then new capabilities or equipment integrated. This is a much more difficult and labor intensive task. The MH-60R is employs a single operator to handle both tactical and accoustic functions in the rear of the aircraft. This "integrated sonics" approach offers some advantages including requiring one less crew member but it does not meet the criteria for dual operators for the Indian navy. The MH-60R does not have an anti ship missile integrated other than the Hellfire (The S-70B has the Penguin). The mission system operator interface and overall design (Done by Lockheed Martin) has been criticized by operators and pilots as not being very user friendly and other info indicates on going problems with the system. An upgrade is in the works including adding a track ball to enhance operator interaction with the system but in initial testing this has received only luke warm reviews by the crews. The S-70B mission system is a Sikorsky and Rockwell Collins design that is now in its 5th generation. It is, in my opinion, the best in mission systems out there. It has been continually updated over the years to add new capabilities and address obsolescence issues. The new Automatic Flight Control System (AFCS) & Weapons Management System (WMS) offer outstanding capabilities. The MK-54 torpedo (which India is getting as part of tis P-8 patrol aircraft purchase) has already been integrated. For this reader, the S-70B is the clear choice. In addition, the MH-60R is not in the current tender for 16 MRH aircraft for the Indian navy. The S-70B is & should win that competition. The Indian Navy will be happy with that choice and it would then make no sense to procure another aircraft for the obvious reasons (training, maintenance, logistics, etc.)
As far as differences:
1. S-70B has the Penguin Anti-Ship missile already integrated, the 60R does not.
2. Both have the American MK-46 & MK-54 torpedoes already integrated. The 70B also has the Eurotorp A244 mod 3 torpedo integrated.
3. The 70B AFCS is a new system that represents a significant improvement over earlier Seahawk systems.
4. The new WMS facilitates integration of indigenous systems or unique customer required stores or weapons.
5. The 70B employs a "federated systems architecture" meaning major functions are dispersed to centralized subsystems. Modification enhancement has typically proved to be easier, cheaper, and less risk for systems of this type, while the 60R employs a "centralized architecture" with a primary and backup mission computer that performs all mission related functions ( mission management, flight management, weapons management, navigation, etc.) 
6. Both have integrated FLIR, ESM, counter measures, Radar, EGI (embedded GPS with inertial) navigation and attitude reference systems, and AFCS systems. I believe the 60R does not currently have a VOR/TACAN navigation capability.
7. The 60R uses Link 16 while the 70B uses Link 11.
The Indian navy has flown the 70B extensively during evaluations for the current MRH tender and has also flown the 60R to a lessor degree. I believe they have all the information they need to make an informed and appropriate decision. In conclusion, the Indian navy would be getting what I believe to be best ASW & ASuW aircraft available.

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## Abingdonboy

SuperManouverableStealth said:


>



I wouldn't mind seeing a few of these Mercedes Benz Actros in Indian service.

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

@indian_foxhound sir did you mangae to snap any pics/vids of the Garuds or ARKK units?


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## Abingdonboy




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## Water Car Engineer




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## Abingdonboy

Thanks for the EXCELLENT explanation sir!
@Rikbo What then compelled the Australians to replace their S-70Bs with MH-60Rs and why have the Danish also gone for the MH-60R over the export version,S-70B? 

Something to do with NATO-interoperability I'd assume. The Indian Navy clearly doesn't have this complusion.

+ is there a "stripped-down" version of the S-70B that can be used for utility,SAR and troop transport roles? As the IN currenlty has the Sea King MK.42 for ASW warfeare but also has the .42C for utility/SAR/troop insertion missions. So the IN needs a replacment for all such helos.

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## StormShadow

Bangalore, Feb. 6: Behind Israels Iron Dome for India is a Stunner in the works.

Israel, Indias furtive defence supplier that both countries keep shrouded behind layers of confidentiality, has outed itself in the Aero India 9th edition here.

A truck-mounted launcher from its Iron Dome missile system greets visitors at the entrance to the biannual event in the IAFs Yelahanka airbase that showcases the air combat inventory that India has on its wish list.

The Iron Dome, successfully demonstrated in last years short sharp war between Israel and militants in the Gaza Strip, is on that list. But somewhere below is its bigger brother named Davids Sling. *The Stunner is the rocket that the Davids Sling system fires to shoot down enemy missiles with ranges 250km and above.*

*So important has Israels presence been at this edition of Aero India that even defence minister A.K. Antony, known for his aversion to being publicly seen in the company of Indias possibly most reliable military supplier as of now, allowed himself to be photographed with Major General Ehud Shani, the director general in Israels ministry of defence.*

Israel and India, said Israels ambassador Alon Ushpiz at the opening of his countrys pavilion here, share a level of intimacy and co-operation that is reflected and is an integral part of the growing multifaceted relationship between our two countries.



> Without going into details, the friendship and chemistry between Israelis and Indians is a source of pride and indeed a bedrock of security, stability and tranquillity for both our nations,


 he said.

The Iron Dome system that its maker Rafael claims shot down 85 per cent of Fajr5 and Qassam rockets on target from militants in the Gaza Strip was deployed across south Israeli settlements and to protect parts of Tel Aviv. It took three to five batteries of Iron Dome to protect Tel Aviv. Israel expects that the demonstration of the system will encourage India to buy it for its VVIP areas.

There is a difference, though, of size. Tel Aviv covers about 176sqkm with about 52sqkm estimated to have been targeted by the militants.

The National Capital Territory of Delhi, in comparison, is spread over 1,483sqkm.

Even the Davids Sling, which Israels Rafael is developing with the US-headquartered Raytheon and covers a larger area, has a single system for Israel as of now. A test in November 2012 is said to have been successful.

A Rafael official said a single Davids Sling system would give cover for Israel, a country with contested boundaries but spanning approximately 16,000sqkm, less than even that of Kerala (about 18,650sqkm), one of Indias smaller states in terms of acreage.

Israel has a four-layered missile defence system, graduating from the Iron Dome in the close-in area to the Davids Sling and the Arrow II and the Arrow III for longer-range missiles.

*Indias Defence Research and Development Organisation claims that its own missile defence system is ready to be translated from the drawing board to a war theatre. India has also been in talks with the US and Russia for missile defence systems like the Patriot III and the SV-300 for long and medium ranges.*

In early December, however, an Israeli delegation is understood to have held extensive talks with the Indian defence ministry.* Indian officials expressed more keenness on the Davids Sling than in the Iron Dome.*

AFSPA caution

Antony today advised caution on demands for change to the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, which grants soldiers immunity from prosecution in areas covered by the law, to address alleged harassment of women by defence personnel. 

We have to be very careful and we cannot take any hasty decisions, the minister told a news conference after inaugurating Aero India 2013 here. 

In the same breath, Antony promised such cases involving defence personnel would be handled strongly. I have informed the armed forces that any such cases will have zero tolerance.

The Justice J.S. Verma Committee, many of whose recommendations were reflected in the February 3 ordinance on crimes against women, had suggested changes in the AFSPA.

Israel&#8217;s Stunner emerges on India&#8217;s radar

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## BlueDot_in_Space

Yeah First reports talked about our interest in Iron dome. Then official denial came. Now, ohhh a correction, they want david not iron dome. It seems US is tightening its funding to Israel.


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## StormShadow

BlueDot_in_Space said:


> Yeah First reports talked about our interest in Iron dome. Then official denial came. Now, ohhh a correction, they want david not iron dome. *It seems US is tightening its funding to Israel.*


It has got nothing to do with US. India itself is not keen to purchase it.



> An Israeli missile shield, which created some buzz in the defence ministry last year following its success in Gaza Strip, may not finally come to India, as the armed forces are not satisfied with its utility because of its short range.
> 
> Known as Iron Dome, it is an air defence system  meant to neutralise rockets and artillery cells fired from a distance of up to 70 km  which emerged as one of the worlds most successful missile shields.
> 
> As the ministry was scouring the market for an effective missile cover for Delhi and Mumbai, Iron Dome caught its attention. Preliminary discussions were held with Israeli officials, too. But now, questions are being raised by the armed forces over its efficiency.
> Our challenges are bigger. We have to cover a bigger distance.
> 
> We have a dense airspace and a long border. Iron Dome is not the answer for our requirement, Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne, chief of Indian the Air Force and chairman of the Chief of Staff Committee, said at the airshow here on Thursday.
> 
> The Iron Dome system, developed by Rafael Advanced Defence System, is on display at the show along with the launchers, which drew curious crowd in the last three days.
> 
> Incidentally, this is one of the few pavilions, which Defence Minister A K Antony visited after inaugurating the airshow signifying Israels importance as military supplier. Along with the USA and Russia, Israel is also one of the largest suppliers of military hardware to India.
> 
> One of the highlights of this years airshow, presented for the first time in India, is the Iron Dome system. This is an indigenously developed, game-changing, first-of-its-kind missile interception system.
> 
> It performed with notable distinction, protecting over half of Israels population from a barrage of over 1,500 rockets and missiles, Israeli ambassador Alon Ushpiz said. Last year alone it neutralised more than 400 rocket attacks.
> 
> We have seen the performance of Iron Dome in Gaza last year. It proved successful in that environment. But the system is still being fine-tuned and the Indian environment is different. Other systems like Davids Sling are also being developed, Browne said.
> 
> Unlike the short-range Iron Dome, a longer-range defence system called David Sling, with an interceptor missile known as Stunner, is in the making. Only one trial had been carried out, but the two countries have begun preliminary discussions. The Stunner too is on display at the Bangalore airshow.
> 
> India not keen on Israels Iron Dome missile system


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## trident2010

I don't think we need a complete missile defense system from Israel. What we can co-develop with Israel are advances radars and sensors as a components of our own AMD.


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## indian_foxhound

Abingdonboy said:


> @indian_foxhound sir did you mangae to snap any pics/vids of the Garuds or ARKK units?



Man having high fever... Because change in weather...Miss today show... Sorry brother. Ill will put that trucks doc on youtube and give you the think @Abingdonboy

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## indian_foxhound

*The business of Aero India 2013*





*9th edition of Aero India 2013 ends*





*HAL Rudra + HAL LCH Aero India 2013*


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## indian_foxhound

*RED BULLS, RAFALE jets DAZZLE Bangalore AIR SHOW *


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## indian_foxhound

*A tribute to surya kiran*


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## subincb

Update from AI-2013
ADA working on some unmanned project other that UCAV, could be AURA and says he cant talk abt it. Its completed design phase and will be ahead of AMCA. Stealth features would be higher that AMCA. 
one problem with LCA delay is Airforce it seems. Before only cemilac and HAL were involved it seems not Airforce is there and they are not ready to take the aircraft for testing wthout small small things being changed it seems. Thats the delay from EGR to first flight. They could prefer foreign components in LCA may be just to get an airticket to see the facility. Even after all this they are trying max to indiginise most LRU's 

HAL has readied new 5 hangers of which 3 are for LCA production line and 2 for IJT. Even ADA thinks they are trying to be ready to start production immediately after IOC.
LUH GTV is ready but engine decision is not yet taken. It could be shakthi or a rolls Royce one whihc i have the photo but lost my usb connector at AI. LUH will have touch screen and all that and will be advanced than ALH in terms of avionics as per HAL. No one has asked for those upgrades in ALH-IV (rudra also).
HAL going alone in HTT-40, they say all the news about double the cost of Pilatus is nonsense. And they say its too easy for them to develop HTT-40. HAL looks like they are in serious business. may be Tyagi was the right guy for HAL.

Regarding NAK brownes comment of Al55I having only 100 hours flight, he says its a new engine and even russians are not aware of MTBF. so every 100 hours they open and check every component to see any deviation.

GTRE is trying to rope in a LCA to fix with kaveri K9 and they are not aware of DMRL's SCB.
GTRE is working on engine for UCAV whihc is derivative of Kaveri without afterburner. and they are working on an engine for what ever the ADA guys said he cant talk to me about as well. same response from GTRE. marine engine they have demonstrated but till now no requirement from navy. K9 50 hours of high altitude testing complete of 80 hours required. Some minor issue with vibration in LP region is being fixed now by changing DS blade. No weight reduction programme yet but once this is fixed and tested they will start putting composites in many parts of engine.

DMRL SCB blade shown in some photo 2 days back is new. the SCB vane shown was developed 10 days back. It has not reached GTRE or HAL yet, they dont even know about it. still undergoing testings.

LRDE says they will be ready in two years atmost with AESA for LCA. already T/R modules are ready and many things on going for the same.

NAL Saras will start flying in two months with all recommended FAR-23 changes, new engine etc.

Amazing how the number of Indian private companies have gone up so many times from the previous AI's. So many SME's. Companies like alpha designs and data patterns have so much to show case. Corner shot weapons procured and assembled from Isrealis by Alpha design and supplied to BSF and NSG.

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## Abingdonboy

Israel is a true friend of India. You wouldn't see Israel selling any military systems to Pakistan- that's for sure.

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## anant_s

Display by Russian Knights








(Just kidding, but looks like Rafale is here to stay while Russians leave )


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## Rikbo

Abingdonboy,
The Australians had a billion dollar failure with the Seaspite program and after that the politicians decided to go for a low risk program. They perceived the 60R as a low risk approach given its use by the USN and time in service. Had you asked the operators who now fly the S-70B-2 that the 60R will replace, they like the 70B. Interoperability, USN logistics support, and other reasons all played into the decision. I am not saying the 60R is a bad aircraft, I am saying the 70B is just better primarily due to the design & implementation to the avionics & mission system. The 70B has also always has been shown to be the less expensive aircraft since Lockheed's cost for mission system development has always been higher than Sikorsky. Lockheed Martin, the USN, and even the US government are all pushing the 60R very aggressively on the international market place hoping to displace the 70B. Sikorsky is kind of caught in an awkward position having two very viable aircraft candidates and not wanting to piss off Lockheed & the USN but still insure they win any competition. Lockheed & Sikorsky are now developing an export version of the 60R that will allow for a direct commercial sale rather than an FMS sale (where the USG &USN manage the contract). Well see how well Lockheed does with customizing the 60R for the international market place, something the all Sikorsky team has been doing with great success for 20 years on the S-70B.
The S-70B can be configured in a utility version and this is something Sikorsky has already looked at for other customers. Versions without the sonar & other mission systems have already been partially designed. Configuring such an aircraft for the Indian navy would be no issue for Sikorsky.

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## SQ8

Abingdonboy said:


> Israel is a true friend of India. You wouldn't see Israel selling any military systems to Pakistan- that's for sure.



What is the point of making the statement in the line of "the sky is blue"?

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## S-DUCT

Brochures





Astra&Brahmos





Nag





















credit: Zynda at BR


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## S-DUCT

continuing....




IFF systems













ADE aerostat





ADE-Arresting wire




ADE - Combat Free Fall System










credit:shiv@BR

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## Abingdonboy

Oscar said:


> What is the point of making the statement in the line of "the sky is blue"?



I was trying to reference the Russians who many Indians here claim is India's "best" buddy and loyal ally and yet has sold military equipment to India's enemies/rivals. The Russians themselves are always asserting they are India's only strategic partner who will always look out for India's interests. However the Israelis are keen to keep their partnership with India low-Kay and doesn't make such bold or inaccurate statements. 

Israel's efforts are under appreciated by many Indians, this was all I was trying to say.


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## SQ8

Abingdonboy said:


> I was trying to reference the Russians who many Indians here claim is India's "best" buddy and loyal ally and yet has sold military equipment to India's enemies/rivals. The Russians themselves are always asserting they are India's only strategic partner who will always look out for India's interests. However the Israelis are keen to keep their partnership with India low-Kay and doesn't make such bold or inaccurate statements.
> 
> Israel's efforts are under appreciated by many Indians, this was all I was trying to say.



How in the world does Pakistan even FIT into this line of statement?
Israel sold to China?? A lot of systems in the 90s and still maintains defense contacts at lower levels?

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## Hyperion

Well, no one is friend of anyone. The Israelis, just like Russians are friends of Indian money. 

Facts:

1. Israel hates all Muslims. India also hates them, however, under a different banner. . (Check)
2. India has money, Israel loves money. (Check)
3. Israel has access to American tech, which India has no hope in hell getting without Israel. (Check)

Mate, stop your *BS* in every other thread.



Abingdonboy said:


> Israel's efforts are under appreciated by many Indians, this was all I was trying to say.


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## Android

Hyperion said:


> Well, no one is friend of anyone. The Israelis, just like Russians are friends of Indian money. Facts:1. Israel hates all Muslims. India also hates them, however, under a different banner. . (Check)2. India has money, Israel loves money. (Check)3. Israel has access to American tech, which India has no hope in hell getting without Israel. (Check)Mate, stop your *BS* in every other thread.


india hates who Muslims, Israel or both ???



Abingdonboy said:


> Israel is a true friend of India. You wouldn't see Israel selling any military systems to Pakistan- that's for sure.


but what about china


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## Hyperion

Dude, the State of India is not very Muslim "loving" state, or is it? All the indicators point to what I mentioned. I maybe wrong though.

*Not Isreal. Why would India hate Israel? 



Android said:


> india hates who Muslims, Israel or both ???


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## Abingdonboy

Nice work again @Rikbo!

A couple more Qs- if that's okay! 

Given your claim the S-70B is a more customisable platform- would the IN then struggle to get their desired Indian/Israeli orign tech onto the Mh-60R as a result? 

Addtionally which platform would you say had a healthier road map wrt upgrades and refinements? As the USN/USG is fully behind the Romeo and Sierra with 150+ on order for the USN alone and with orders from the Aussies and Danish there is serious momnet behind this platform. Whilst the S-70B does have a healthy order book it has to say the Mh-60 is just ahead purely because of the USN.

With the USN in board and operating such a huge fleet there is the certainty of successive upgrades and advanmcnets and whatever LM devlops for the USN's MH-60Rs can be applied to other MH-60Rs in use around the world. 


If you can remember which helo is being churned out in at the greater annual rate? As do some research on former orders and delivery rates one gets the impression the production rates for both are pretty low and on average it looks like it takes 4 years from signing and ordering the helo to first delivery. IIRC the IN mandates a 36 month contract to delivery schedule- could either realistically comply with this demand? And would is be wrong in assuming the MH-60R has a higher production rate than the S-70B. 


Additionally wrt training would the IN have an easier time with the MH-60R as their are already pretty strong military-military ties with the Indian and US militaries especial wrt the IN and USN. However the S-70B is not operated by anyone who the IN would look to be trained by. 


I'd assume both platforms come with similar full mission simulators? 


And which is the cheaper (unit cost) platform?


Would India's refuel to sign the CISMOA,LSA and other deals impact either helo wrt omitted tech for Indian use, a that seriously?


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## rashtriya.rifles

Hyperion said:


> Well, no one is friend of anyone. The Israelis, just like Russians are friends of Indian money.
> 
> Facts:
> 
> 1. Israel hates all Muslims. *India also hates them*, however, under a different banner. . (Check)
> 2. India has money, Israel loves money. (Check)
> 3. Israel has access to American tech, which India has no hope in hell getting without Israel. (Check)
> 
> Mate, stop your *BS* in every other thread.



Absolutely right on that one.. we just love to kill muslims in droves.. but I think we need to hone our skills big time.. their population is increasing and is now almost 20% of India's total population..


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## Abingdonboy

Hyperion said:


> Well, no one is friend of anyone. The Israelis, just like Russians are friends of Indian money.
> 
> Facts:
> 
> 1. Israel hates all Muslims. India also hates them, however, under a different banner. . (Check)
> 2. India has money, Israel loves money. (Check)
> 3. Israel has access to American tech, which India has no hope in hell getting without Israel. (Check)
> 
> Mate, stop your *BS* in every other thread.


1. Sure- whatever. India and Isreal are far more pluralist and secular and treat their minorities better than certain "Islamic" states. 

2. Fair enough. 

3. What US tech can india only get through Israel that the US wouldn't sell to India? The US has offered the F-35,F-18 and most advanced version of the F-16 ever created all with the test tech. Additionally the US has sold the P-8I, the most advanced MPA on earth, the most dvnaced and latest version if the Apache, latest Chinook version and the advanced C-17 to India not to mention entry of other deals for high end tech. This is a moot point of yours.


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## SQ8

rashtriya.rifles said:


> Absolutely right on that one.. we just love to kill muslims in droves.. but I think we need to hone our skills big time.. their population is increasing and is now almost 20% of India's total population..



Advise Gas Chambers... A good friend of the founding father had a penchant for them.


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## Hyperion

Dude, no one wants to kill anyone in droves. What I was pointing out is that, there is no love lost for the subjugated Muslims of Palestine, by the Indian State. If India were such a Muslim loving country, why would it be dealing with an apartheid state in the first place? 

I am no lover of the Palestinians, however, don't try to take the moral high-ground on this issue and pretend otherwise. Be truthful and straightforward. 



rashtriya.rifles said:


> Absolutely right on that one.. we just love to kill muslims in droves.. but I think we need to hone our skills big time.. their population is increasing and is now almost 20% of India's total population..


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## Shatterpoint

Lol its hardly a secret that India and Israel are very close and good friends. And the relationship is very deep involving almost every field. 

Well done to both nations.

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## Hyperion

1. Again you are comparing two completely separate issues, and taking the moral high-ground that you treat the Muslim cattle much better than other "Muslim" states, as if it were a crime to be 'Muslim'.

3. Oh please, I am not an average PDF joker. ToT etc, when did US offer that? On which project? You know it, I know it, so let's just keep it at that.



Abingdonboy said:


> 1. Sure- whatever. India and Isreal are far more pluralist and secular and treat their minorities better than certain "Islamic" states.
> 
> 3. What US tech can india only get through Israel that the US wouldn't sell to India? The US has offered the F-35,F-18 and most advanced version of the F-16 ever created all with the test tech. Additionally the US has sold the P-8I, the most advanced MPA on earth, the most dvnaced and latest version if the Apache, latest Chinook version and the advanced C-17 to India not to mention entry of other deals for high end tech. This is a moot point of yours.


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## Abingdonboy

Oscar said:


> How in the world does Pakistan even FIT into this line of statement?
> Israel sold to China?? A lot of systems in the 90s and still maintains defense contacts at lower levels?



How does it not FIT? Russia likes to talk big about how it is India's most reliable and closest freidnwhen when it is neither as almost every deal it signs with India it runs up cost overruns and delays. Not to mention Russia supplies certain military tech to the likes of Pakistan. Granted it is not offensive tech but the point remains. 


Your point about Israel and china is valid but I was specifically referencing Pakistani sales as, despite all the talk, Pakistan remains the biggest threat to India.



Hyperion said:


> 3. Oh please, I am not an average PDF joker. ToT etc, when did US offer that? On which project? You know it, I know it, so let's just keep it at that.


Sir, who's talking about ToT? Your original point was India couldn't get access to certain US equipment without going through Israel. Even going through Israel India doesn't get any ToT for US-origin tech. The US are very protective of their tech.


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## Hyperion

Dear Sir, my bad on the statement then. Edit: India can't get access to ToT directly on US origin tech. Yes, India did get access to Israeli tech ToT, which was inherently built by US ToT to Israel. 

ELTA produces ---> Green Pine (US Tech)
Israel ------- ToT ----> India
India's produces -----> Swordfish Long Range Tracking Radar (Or did DRDO just cook it up in dream)

I know exactly your "indigenous" abilities. As a matter of fact, during the 90's you were sourcing most of your high-tech equipment from the same suppliers (black market), from whom we were sourcing. Do you seriously believe that you got a quantum leap, just by indigenous hard-work? At the very least, don't kid yourself mate.




Abingdonboy said:


> Sir, who's talking about ToT? Your original point was India couldn't get access to certain US equipment without going through Israel. Even going through Israel India doesn't get any ToT for US-origin tech. The US are very protective of their tech.


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## Vasily Zaytsev

Hyperion said:


> Dear Sir, my bad on the statement then. Edit: India can't get access to ToT directly on US origin tech. Yes, India did get access to Israeli tech ToT, which was inherently built by US ToT to Israel.
> 
> ELTA produces ---> Green Pine (US Tech)
> Israel ------- ToT ----> India
> India's produces -----> Swordfish Long Range Tracking Radar (Or did DRDO just cook it up in dream)
> 
> I know exactly your "indigenous" abilities. As a matter of fact, during the 90's you were sourcing most of your high-tech equipment from the same suppliers (black market), from whom we were sourcing. Do you seriously believe that you got a quantum leap, just by indigenous hard-work? At the very least, don't kid yourself mate.




Tsk ... Tsk ...

Delusional ... "You know exactly our indigenous abilities" .....

Lol .... Please ... Zaid Hamid is funny but you don't have to personify him here ... Original Zaid Hamid is enough and works well ....

What u did there .........Good comedy though !!!






Burnol Time !!!


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## Abingdonboy

Hyperion said:


> Dear Sir, my bad on the statement then. Edit: India can't get access to ToT directly on US origin tech. Yes, India did get access to Israeli tech ToT, which was inherently built by US ToT to Israel.
> 
> ELTA produces ---> Green Pine (US Tech)
> Israel ------- ToT ----> India
> India's produces -----> Swordfish Long Range Tracking Radar (Or did DRDO just cook it up in dream)
> 
> I know exactly your "indigenous" abilities. As a matter of fact, during the 90's you were sourcing most of your high-tech equipment from the same suppliers (black market), from whom we were sourcing. Do you seriously believe that you got a quantum leap, just by indigenous hard-work? At the very least, don't kid yourself mate.


Fair enough. And no, I'm not under the illusion the jump was made purely because of indgenious efforts but a combination if intensive domestic R&D and the assistance you speak of. Almost every nation on earth that has serious indgenious capabilities has had a helping hand in this way from the outside.

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## Hyperion

Mate, I totally support India's indigenous efforts, you people have done much better than us. The problem is I don't like people coming here and ranting that.....Oh.. you suckers aren't capable of, look at us, we made this gizmo all by ourselves, wherein, the facts aren't exactly that... Look at us, we try to buy epoxy paint and we are screwed. We will do all of it as well, it will just take us a longer time. That's it.



Abingdonboy said:


> Fair enough. And no, I'm not under the illusion the jump was made purely because of indgenious efforts but a combination if intensive domestic R&D and the assistance you speak of. Almost every nation on earth that has serious indgenious capabilities has had a helping hand in this way from the outside.

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## Abingdonboy

Hyperion said:


> Mate, I totally support India's indigenous efforts, you people have done much better than us. The problem is I don't like people coming here and ranting that.....Oh.. you suckers aren't capable of, look at us, we made this gizmo all by ourselves, wherein, the facts aren't exactly that... Look at us, we try to buy epoxy paint and we are screwed. We will do all of it as well, it will just take us a longer time. That's it.



Mate- it is what it is. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

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## Hyperion

Buddy, I most definitely don't need any Burnol, however, you on the other hand are in desperate need of Prozac. Take it, and rest. It takes sometime to take effect.



Vasily Zaytsev said:


> Tsk ... Tsk ...
> 
> Delusional ... "You know exactly our indigenous abilities" .....
> 
> Lol .... Please ... Zaid Hamid is funny but you don't have to personify him here ... Original Zaid Hamid is enough and works well ....
> 
> What u did there .........Good comedy though !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Burnol Time !!!


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## KRAIT

@Hyperion Buddy, many nations get advance tech. by non-ethical ways. How can we forget F-35 designs stolen form US companies and China made their J-31 in few years. 

Corporate spies, black market dealers etc. are very much part of the game.

Let me tell you a story about who Russians got the composition for their jet engines blades. They ordered few Rolls Royce Engine from Britain for Mig series. They requested and visited British factory and wore special shoes which when rubbed on the floor, the metal scrapings stuck to it. The metal was used for blades of their engines. 

Same Russia, which gave tough competition to West in Aviation. Also remember Indian nuclear program too.

When it comes to defense of the nation, every thing is fair.

All these indigenous freaks who are too emotional and egoistic are actually hurdle to Defense Industry.

Get the technology by any means possible. Period.

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## Hyperion

Mate, I know, and I know that you know. I was just trying to educate some other Indian friends. 

I know a dozen other stories, where our guys met your guys at the middle-mans place in Dubai. 



KRAIT said:


> @Hyperion Buddy, many nations get advance tech. by non-ethical ways. How can we forget F-35 designs stolen form US companies and China made their J-31 in few years.
> 
> Corporate spies, black market dealers etc. are very much part of the game.
> 
> Let me tell you a story about who Russians got the composition for their jet engines blades. They ordered few Rolls Royces Engine from Britain for Mig series. They visited factory and wore special shoes which when rubbed on the floor, the metal scrapings stuck to it. The metal was used for blades of their engines.
> 
> Same Russia, which gave tough competition to West in Aviation.

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## Abingdonboy

Hyperion said:


> Mate, I know, and I know that you know. I was just trying to educate some other Indian friends.
> 
> I know a dozen other stories, where our guys met your guys at the middle-mans place in Dubai.



Sir, this makes sense as back then both nations were under extreme sanctions. Nowadays this practice on the Indian side doesn't exist.

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## KRAIT

Hyperion said:


> Mate, I know, and I know that you know. I was just trying to educate some other Indian friends.
> I know a dozen other stories, where our guys met your guys at the middle-mans place in Dubai.


I know, that you know, that I know. that you know. 

Sometimes to convey message to Indians, one has to talk to Pakistanis. That's the only way they listen sometimes. 

BTW do tell about these stories in some thread. Would be great to know what average Joe don't know.

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## Hyperion

Of course it doesn't. Reason is that now you have access to all the tech (open channel). We are the baddyz at the moment. Doesn't matter actually, we have got everything that we needed anyways. We have a few bottle-necks on couple of projects, which we are 'sourcing/sorting'. 



Abingdonboy said:


> Sir, this makes sense as back then both nations were under extreme sanctions. Nowadays this practice on the Indian side doesn't exist.

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## JanjaWeed

Here is Vishnu Som's report on Aero India 2013. Was eagerly waiting... 

Catch the stars of Aero India 2013 Video: NDTV.com

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## Hyperion

LOL.. will do. 



KRAIT said:


> I know, that you know, that I know. that you know.
> 
> Sometimes to convey message to Indians, one has to talk to Pakistanis. That's the only way they listen sometimes.
> 
> BTW do tell about these stories in some thread. Would be great to know what average Joe don't know.

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## rashtriya.rifles

Hyperion said:


> Dude, no one wants to kill anyone in droves. What I was pointing out is that, there is no love lost for the subjugated Muslims of Palestine, by the Indian State. If India were such a Muslim loving country, why would it be dealing with an apartheid state in the first place?
> 
> I am no lover of the Palestinians, however, don't try to take the moral high-ground on this issue and pretend otherwise. Be truthful and straightforward.



1. The reason why most muslims everywhere are seen with somewhat suspicious angle is because they prefer to stay among themselves.. Even if they hang out with you, they will always prefer to have some muslim friend ( even if he might be total a$$$hole ). They will always try to be dodgy when asked what all they have been doing off late.. ( it is not as if people are asking if they are making bombs but many small things like going to morning prayers also they will make a fuss about it and wont tell you ... like WTF ?) They just try to make a big deal about anything related to their religion. ( I have met many brahmins also who try to make a big deal about their brahmin traditions in villages.. They are equally obnoxious ). 
Anyways, this point is almost offtopic..

2. Who said Israel is apartheid ? THey have superior tech and the entire world knows it. No big deal if we are purchasing it.. We are not going out of our way to lend them diplomatic support against muslims or Middle-East countries.. Our friendship with Qatar/Barain/Saudi are testimony to how we are handling this issue..
We want to purchase top line products and israel are selling it and we are paying for it.. PURE BUSINESS !


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## Azazel

Hyperion said:


> Dude, no one wants to kill anyone in droves. What I was pointing out is that, there is no love lost for the subjugated Muslims of Palestine, by the Indian State. If India were such a Muslim loving country, why would it be dealing with an apartheid state in the first place?
> 
> I am no lover of the Palestinians, however, don't try to take the moral high-ground on this issue and pretend otherwise. Be truthful and straightforward.



Commercial and military interests.Israel can offer us many key military and civilian technologies that many others can't at an affordable cost.This has nothing to do with Muslims,Just because Israel's conflict with Arab world we can't overlook the fact that Israel is one of the most technologically advanced country in the world.


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## Rikbo

Abingdonboy,
OK.. Let me see what I can do to answer your questions.
1. As far as integration of foreign or new equipment into the aircrafts avionics/mission system, for the 60R, I cannot say as Lockheed is just beginning to perform this activity on the first few foreign customers. So, time will tell.
2. As far as production quantities and future upgrades, that would heavily favor the 60R given as you noted, its USN backing and commitment. The S-70B has minimal existing contacts and upgrades are primarily driven by obsolescence issues or customer unique requirements. Any USN navy upgrades to the baseline 60R aircraft would have to go through the export approval process before being made available to any foreign customers. Given existing outstanding orders for the 60R (60S production is coming to an end in the near future unless additional aircraft are ordered), production rate would also favor the 60R for the baseline aircraft. 
3. Either aircraft should be able to be delivered in a 36 month timeframe. What will drive cost & schedule are any required changes or additions to the baseline aircraft to meet the customers requirements, which will be different for the 70B & 60R. I believe Sikorsky and the S-70B are more capable of delivering a compliant well designed overall aircraft in the required timeframe and at a lower cost.
4. Here is where I believe the S-70B shines, it's mission and avionics system. The 4 MFD glass cockpit architecture was designed to facilitate operator interface providing both keyboard and a windows like graphical user interface that provides the operators with great flexibility in how to use and interact with the missions system and its subsystems. Many operations can be performed via the Control Display Unit (CDU) keyboard as well as using the Multi Slew Controller (MSC) that provides a point and click type of operation via the MFD displays. Consequently, I believe training & ease of use would greatly favor the S-70B. The Sikorsky training group that employs, pilots, operators, Subject Matter Experts (SMEs) & others does an excellent job in training the customer in every aspect of how to use and maintain the aircraft and its systems. This training & support is as good or better than what is offered for the 60R.
5. Full mission simulators are, I believe, available for both aircraft and are often contracted out to a third party the specializes in simulator development. I have no real data on this to give you specifics.
6. The S-70B has typically been the lower cost platform to acquire for many of the previous reasons already cited. Whether that will hold true on future proposals is yet to be determined.
7. As far as signing CISMOA/LSA, not sure what those are but the 70B already has export approval for the baseline aircraft & its systems because of the ongoing international sales. 60R is just getting into the international game so time will tell, no reason not to think (for both aircraft) that prior agreeing to an aircraft configuration and signing a contract the necessary approvals would be in place or in process.

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## Abingdonboy

Thanks again @Rikbo!

So, you do belive the S-70B has a more limited future "road-map" then? As such would the IN have to look to get its own upgrades based on its own thinking and research and not based on work by the USN. This isn't the end of the world, the IN has plenty of experince in identifying and then spelling out its needs for upgrades of certain systems. 

+ would I be wrong in thinking the S-70B has slightly less range and slightly less useful load capability to the MH-60R?

And in terms of offsets, do you believe India would get a better deal from Sikorsky with the S-70B alone or from a combination of Sikorsky and LM for the MH-60R?


In the context of the entire N-MRH competion, if the S-70B came out as the winner you would think the IN had made the right choice then?


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## Rikbo

No problem @Abingdonboy!
As far as a future road map, S-70B would depend on Sikorsky winning future proposals vs. an existing an on going production contract for the 60R. For existing customers, Sikorsky can & does bid on any upgrades to the S-70B and has been doing it for over 20 years. That's one of the great things the 70B team has going for it is an aircraft designed with the ability for modification in mind and the experienced staff to execute it. Sikorsky customer support of the 70B will always be there to help them with their aircraft.The USN does not have anything to do with the 70B, it only supports the 60R. Don't believe it has any less range or performance than the 60R for a similarly equipped mission payload. Given what I have previously said and the fact that it has already been published that a co-production agreement in India is possible for the 70B if the orders are sufficient is very possible, makes me believe the 70B can offer a lower overall platform cost and address the significant offset requirements that are likely required for either proposal. For MRH or N-MRH, I believe the the 70B is the best available choice.

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## Abingdonboy



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## Water Car Engineer

6 NAGs for the enemy!

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## Star Wars

THE SHOW WAS BLOODY AWESOME !!!... I WAS THERE...the thunder of the fighters afterburner exhaust,the beasts flying around..FUKCING AWESOME....uploading pics...now

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## Star Wars

(*2 of the Russian Knights Pilots*)

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## Star Wars



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## Vasily Zaytsev

Hyperion said:


> Buddy, I most definitely don't need any Burnol, however, you on the other hand are in desperate need of Prozac. Take it, and rest. It takes sometime to take effect.



Nope Prozac is outdated ... 2 pegs of Rum do it much faster !!!

See ... u really don't know about our indigenous capabilities.

So .... come back when u have your own "indigenous" anything .... till then use burnol, cold ice or whatever "indigenous" u have !!!


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## Star Wars



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## Star Wars

There was another female soldier which looked like a spec force.... when i tried taking a pic she gave the "*Am gonna whoop your ****" look...i walked off quietly....


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## Water Car Engineer



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## Star Wars

I spoke to french and Russian and Enlgish pilots as well !!!!! spoke to the two pilots of the russian knights.. wooooo

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

Star Wars said:


> There was another female soldier which looked like a spec force.... when i tried taking a pic she gave the "*Am gonna whoop your ****" look...i walked off quietly....



There aren't women in the Indian SF mate!



Star Wars said:


>


VERY nice mate! Any more?


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## Abingdonboy



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## Star Wars

Abingdonboy said:


> There aren't women in the Indian SF mate!
> 
> 
> VERY nice mate! Any more?



i know... she had tavor with body armor knee pads and well built...no clue who she was....


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## Abingdonboy

Star Wars said:


> i know... she had tavor with body armor knee pads and well built...no clue who she was....


 @Star Wars Interesting- No pics mate? 

You're sure it was a women!?

And you're sure it was a Tavor? otherwise she could be a Bangalore PD officer.


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## Star Wars

Abingdonboy said:


> @Star Wars Interesting- No pics mate?
> 
> You're sure it was a women!?
> 
> And you're sure it was a Tavor? otherwise she could be a Bangalore PD officer.



the same rifle the folks in the jeep had.... pretty sure she was a woman..as i said...she was well built ..lol


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## Abingdonboy

Star Wars said:


> the same rifle the folks in the jeep had.... pretty sure she was a woman..as i said...she was well built ..lol



If it was a women it's be interesting. Maybe part of a CISF unit (CISF has started getting the X-95 AFAIK).


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## Star Wars

Abingdonboy said:


> If it was a women it's be interesting. Maybe part of a CISF unit (CISF has started getting the X-95 AFAIK).



could be..... but never seen a women in such awesome gear before...


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## SMStealth

trident2010 said:


> Buri nazar waale tera mooh kaala



BHai its not me....Its my friend who works with DRDO..& rite now he is working on Su-30MKI's EW system...


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## Abingdonboy

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR any ideas:



Star Wars said:


> could be..... but never seen a women in such awesome gear before...





Star Wars said:


> the same rifle the folks in the jeep had.... pretty sure she was a woman..as i said...she was well built ..lol





Abingdonboy said:


> @Star Wars Interesting- No pics mate?
> 
> You're sure it was a women!?
> 
> And you're sure it was a Tavor? otherwise she could be a Bangalore PD officer.





Star Wars said:


> i know... she had tavor with body armor knee pads and well built...no clue who she was....





Star Wars said:


> There was another female soldier which looked like a spec force.... when i tried taking a pic she gave the "*Am gonna whoop your ****" look...i walked off quietly....


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## S-DUCT

AMCA leaflet


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## The A-5

Water Car Engineer said:


> Nirbhay's lil brother?
> 
> The drone's range is 500 km.



Something's fishy. Why would a subsonic target drone want to have a 500km ferry range?


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## trident2010

SuperManouverableStealth said:


> BHai its not me....Its my friend who works with DRDO..& rite now he is working on Su-30MKI's EW system...



Chalo koi baat nahi, usko buri nazar nahi lagegi

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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Abingdonboy said:


> @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR any ideas:



A pic would help..or can someone tell in detail about the uniform and gear she had on.


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## shree835

Hyperion said:


> Well, no one is friend of anyone. The Israelis, just like Russians are friends of Indian money.
> 
> Facts:
> 
> 1. Israel hates all Muslims. India also hates them, however, under a different banner. . (Check)
> 2. India has money, Israel loves money. (Check)
> 3. Israel has access to American tech, which India has no hope in hell getting without Israel. (Check)
> 
> Mate, stop your *BS* in every other thread.



Chicha *Fact-Torial *, please stop spreading BS.


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## cloud_9

> Pilots of SARANG interacting with the spectators at Aero India 2013 air show, at Yelahanka, in Bangalore

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## Agent X

S-DUCT said:


> AMCA leaflet




Is it only me or amca really looks like black widow? seems like hal engineers doesn't have creativity.

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## kurup

Brags, Threats and Money








In 2011, the two big shows were held in Paris and Dubai. In the post-show summary, the Paris Air Show reported 2,113 exhibitors, 346 chalet units, 290 official delegations from 82 countries, 3,200 accredited journalists and a total of 360,000 visitors including trade. 150 aircraft were on static display and 40 flew during the week. The autumn show in Dubai paled in comparison, clocking a mere 960 exhibitors from 50 countries, 1,452 local and international journalists and 56,548 trade visitors.

The big show of 2012 was the Farnborough International Airshow (FIA). Despite having only 1,506 exhibitors from 39 countries, it got the footfall of 109,000 trade visitors, 80 military delegations from 46 countries and 13 delegations from the civil sector. The Singapore Air Show on the other hand managed 900 exhibitors from 50 countries, 872 journalists, 44,801 trade visitors and 274 official delegations from 70 countries. The websites of these shows, run by show organisers, rate the success of their shows by the value of business transacted, contracts announced or signed. For instance, the FIA website lists the business conducted at Farnborough at USD 72 billion. The Dubai Air Show website claims to have managed orders and agreements to the tune of USD 63 billion. They proudly post these statistics on their websites as sales strategies for future growth. India, however, is a different ball game altogether. The 9th edition of Aero India was declared a success by the defence minister on the inaugural day of the show. With about 650 exhibitors of which 350 were foreign companies (interestingly, even on the day of the inauguration, the statistics were an approximation and not accurate), defence minister A.K. Antony called Aero India 2013 one of the biggest shows in the world. World? Asia? South Asia? Or the Indian sub-continent?

As far as business is concerned, traditionally nothing happens at Indian defence and aerospace shows. No orders are placed and no high-profile contracts are signed. Like a traditional village haat (fair), Aero India gives an opportunity to Indian small and medium enterprises to showcase their capabilities to the global giants, intent on selling their hi-tech wares to India, so that they may be enlisted as a cog in their supply chain. This is not to point out the pygmy stature of Aero India. Each Show has its own life, character and purpose; and Aero India certainly has its own. In fact, for a country that does not have an independent defence manufacturing industry, to have a show of the magnitude of Aero India is indeed a miracle.

But a bigger miracle is that despite the absence of news at the Show, anybody and everybody, who can read and write, brings out show dailies. At Aero India 2013, there are nine publications bringing out Show Dailies or (to get the semantics correct) Daily Show Specials; this includes at least two daily newspapers who have jumped in the fray for a slice of the Aero India pie and are bringing out daily specials. Ironically, even at the biggest international shows, despite the numerical strength of the exhibitors and visitors, only a handful of publications, rarely more than three, bring out Show Dailies.

In India the ministry of defence and its appointed show organiser (either CII or FICCI) realised a few shows earlier that bringing out a show daily is a money-making opportunity for defence/aerospace publications and therefore cannot be allowed without the ministry&#8217;s pound of flesh. Junking the traditional practice of bartering exhibition space with the magazines in exchange for carrying show advertisements, the organisers started selling the exhibition stand to the publication at the market rate, in addition to charging a royalty for the privilege of bringing out Show Dailies. To maximise profits from this enterprise, two categories were created to bracket media partners as official and supporting depending upon the amount they paid to the MoD. Since money became the only determinant, editorial quality was given a short shrift.

This year, FICCI appointed one official media partner and four supporting media partners. To give value for money to the official media partner for having paid more than the supporting partners, certain exclusive areas of distribution were earmarked for it. FICCI assured everyone that only those who paid would be allowed to distribute their Show Dailies.

However, by Day 2, it was obvious that either FICCI has failed completely to enforce its diktat or has colluded with those who distributed daily specials without paying for them. The fact that these dailies (Aeromag Asia and Geopolitics) are being distributed openly, latter seems more likely. But the shame of the show does not lie in this sort of reprehensible operations. The shame lies in the manner in which the &#8216;key sole official media partner&#8217; which has an aggressive fist as symbol of its status on its website, tried to wrest advertising from exhibitors through threats. Things came to such a pass that a few exhibitors threatened to report the company to the organiser for harassment. Only threats countered threats.

In his press conference, defence minister A.K. Antony thanked the media for projecting the show in a positive light thereby attracting the global vendors. One wonders which image of the Show is he grateful for; because a show that runs only to make money for the organisers can neither be great, nor successful.

Aero India 2013 is high on claims, low on substance


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## kurup



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## r1MM0n

Flickr: lystseva's Photostream


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## Abingdonboy

cloud_9 said:


>



Interesting- the SARANG used to wear bright blue flight suits now they are wearing Red suits like Surya Kiran used to. I wonder what will happen when Surya Kiran is reformed!

Of old (blue suits):


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## Agent_47

Russian Knights at Aero 2013

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## subincb

This air show was the worst in terms of flying and best interms of indian SME's and exhibitors. 
No Typhoon, gripen, F-18, mig-35, IJT, Saras etc. Atleast Mig-29UPG and Mig 29K would have made it better. Su-30 did not push the plane like last time. Tejas did some maneuvers but he did not push it either. I dont know who flew LCH this year but definitely not Hari nair or Unni Pillai. Last time was better. Rudra and Rafael did what was expected from them.

This is the first show where foreign exhibitors were not sooo energized and Indians so enthusiastic about whats happening. Most products which foreign companies had to exhibit had something close or coming soon from Indians.


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## mirage2K

Star Wars said:


> There was another female soldier which looked like a spec force.... when i tried taking a pic she gave the "*Am gonna whoop your ****" look...i walked off quietly....



Can you describe the type of uniform she was wearing...was it similar to the garuds like the t-shirt won by garuds or was it similar to the CRPF who were part of guard duty at Aero India.


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## S-DUCT

Agent X said:


> Is it only me or amca really looks like black widow? seems like hal engineers doesn't have creativity.


 There is no need to reinvent wheel.
Look how world community responded to totally creative design of Qaher-313.
I hope ADA has taken only positive design elements of other stealth fighters.


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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy

*
IN pilots checking out the Gripen:*

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## Abingdonboy

Seychelles AF DO-228 (built by HAL):

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## Abingdonboy

LCA:

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy



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## BlueDot_in_Space

*IN backing Marine Kaveri engine phase 2 that is looking to increase the lifespan of marine kaveri engine.*

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## Agent_47




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## d14gtc

Was expecting more of GARUDs ------ ?????????????????????????????


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## Koovie

d14gtc said:


> Was expecting more of GARUDs ------ ?????????????????????????????



Check this thread in case you havent done it yet.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/43257-indian-special-forces-121.html


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## kurup

Aero India 2013: The Indian defence story


The five-day aviation extravaganza, Aero India 2013, which ended on Sunday was not only about display of aerobatic skills and the paraphernalia usually accompanying such events, but also about potential business tie-ups and networking, given the Rs 1.42 lakh crore defence budget (2009-10), Indian aerospace and defence (A&D) sector is eyed by every Indian and global firm.

The questions that arise are, are Indian firms positioned well to leverage the opportunity and what are the challenges for them and for global firms? To start with, the offset policy that aims at higher involvement of Indian firms and a gradual shift towards indigenisation of weapons, needs to get going in right earnest, said Wing Commander (retd) Neelu Khatri, who heads the Defence and Security Advisory Services at KPMG India. &#8220;The policy is good in intention, now the Ministry of Defence (MoD) should operationalise it, so that it really takes off.&#8221; A well-trained staff, comprehensive IT infrastructure and higher levels of engagement with the industry, in other words, according to her.

When one talks of defence procurements, the first thing that strikes is controversy, thanks to the Bofors deal, that brought kickbacks in defence deals to the centre stage in the late 1980s and made Bofors a byword for corruption. Elimination of opaqueness in procurement is the best panacea, said Neelu. &#8220;If there is a clear policy in place and a stipulated time frame for these procurements that is strictly adhered to, then most of these concerns will automatically go out.&#8221;

Another issue that is perceived as a roadblock to the successful implementation of the offset policy is the 26 per cent limit on FDI in joint ventures in the A&D sector. KPMG Partner (Global International Corporate Tax) Gaurav Mehndiratta, said, &#8220;The investments in defence tend to be huge and for an Indian promoter to invest 74 per cent in a venture not knowing what the returns are going to be, is going to be very difficult.&#8221; If the FDI ceiling is raised, global manufacturers will be confident of transferring technology, he added.

The absence of a level playing field, given that defence public sector undertakings have some tax advantages over their private sector counterparts, is another dampener, he said.

But are Indian companies geared up for a bigger role, presuming these concerns are taken care of? They don&#8217;t have the mind-frame of aerospace, as of now, said Neelu. &#8220;They are still going through the learning curve that ranges from three to eight years, depending on the complexity of the technology,&#8221; she said. It also calls for a stiff programme management and adherence to the highest standards the A&D sector is known for. The notion of India offering cost advantage is misplaced, according to her. &#8220;We need to have adequate, trained engineers in aerospace. On ground if I see today, they don&#8217;t exist.&#8221;

Aero India 2013: The Indian defence story | idrw.org


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## kurup



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## sancho

Integrating India's AEW&CS Onto Its Aircraft Platform - Embraer's Experience







Indian Airborne Early Warning And Control System [AEWACS]

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## Abingdonboy



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## S-DUCT

LUH cockpit







Abingdonboy said:


>


Sir,your images are not visible.


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## Abingdonboy

S-DUCT said:


> Sir,your images are not visible.


Weird- I can see them!

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## S-DUCT

Abingdonboy said:


> Weird- I can see them!


FIXED.
Changed my date from 1/1/08 to 12/2/13

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## Manas

Hyperion said:


> Mate, I know, and I know that you know. I was just trying to educate some other Indian friends.
> 
> *I know a dozen other stories, where our guys met your guys at the middle-mans place in Dubai*.



Haha nice story whatever floats your boat.

*See the difference between india and pakistan is that we have the industrial base to absorb technology while you don't.* Simple.


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## BlueDot_in_Space

*New Design For India's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft*

India has unveiled an updated design for its fifth-generation fighter concept, known as the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

Representations of the fighter have changed often in the last few years. But the scale 1:8 model of the concept displayed at last week&#8217;s Aero India 2013 show in Bengaluru is understood to be the final airframe and platform with which the program will proceed.

The twin-engine, stealthy, multirole fighter was first unveiled at the Aero India show in 2009, in the form of a metallic wind-tunnel model. At the show in 2011, a reshaped model saw its designers give it an F-22-like sensibility.

The final design, or at least the one the concept designers have put out this year,* is strongly reminiscent of the Northrop Grumman YF-23 experimental fighter prototype* that lost to the Lockheed-Martin led F-22 Raptor program in 1991.

*The AMCA&#8217;s new fuselage is stretched, with symmetric trapezoidal wings, notably losing the leading edge extensions that were thought to be part of the design. The aircraft is to sport an internal weapons bay and fully indigenous stealth technologies under development, including radar-absorbent paint and composites.*

That is the plan, at any rate. With the country&#8217;s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) program increasingly adrift ahead of a 2015 squadron service target, there has been skepticism within the Indian air force (IAF) about the pragmatism of committing resources toward an indigenous fifth-generation platform, especially when more than $10 billion will soon be committed to the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL)-Sukhoi PAK FA-based fighter program. But those concerns haven&#8217;t stood in the way of resources and funding flowing into the AMCA program and an elaborate wish list of technologies being lined up to define an aircraft that almost certainly won&#8217;t see a first flight before the next decade.

&#8220;*Let&#8217;s be clear: the HAL-Sukhoi program isn&#8217;t a joint effort,&#8221; says an IAF officer with Bengaluru-based Training Command. &#8220;The airframe will be identical to the ones the Russians currently have in flight test.* Our decision to go with a single-seat configuration is principally to avoid potential time overruns that will almost certainly be part of designing such a configuration. *The maximum that HAL will do is insert a few systems of our choice and play lead integrator for the &#8216;MKI,&#8217; if you will.* Therefore,* it is imperative that India look ahead and begin developing technologies and platforms like the AMCA. We cannot forever be a buyer of aircraft that are conceptualized, designed by others, and simply assembled or license-built here.*&#8221;

A senior scientist at the AMCA directorate in Bengaluru says, &#8220;We have the fourth-generation Tejas on the one hand. But evolutionary technologies we are developing for the AMCA are on the cutting edge. They hope to be comparable with the best in the world. If we need a little help along the way in the interests of pragmatism, cost and time, we will study the feasibility of cooperation. But this ideally needs to be a fully Indian program. Sensitive stealth technologies will not be shared by foreign technology companies.&#8221;

A brief list of the ambitious technologies that India&#8217;s Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) hopes to equip the AMCA with includes *a panoramic active matrix cockpit, triplex fly-by-light electro-optic architecture, serpentine air intakes to suppress radar signature and an optic-fiber-based digital flight control computer.*

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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy



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## Abingdonboy




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## Abingdonboy




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## Abingdonboy




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## BlueDot_in_Space

It seems AF LCA tejas has been tested for lighting protection and rain water proofing as per below updates

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## Jayanta

BlueDot_in_Space said:


> *New Design For India's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft*
> 
> India has unveiled an updated design for its fifth-generation fighter concept, known as the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).
> 
> Representations of the fighter have changed often in the last few years. But the scale 1:8 model of the concept displayed at last week&#8217;s Aero India 2013 show in Bengaluru is understood to be the final airframe and platform with which the program will proceed.
> 
> The twin-engine, stealthy, multirole fighter was first unveiled at the Aero India show in 2009, in the form of a metallic wind-tunnel model. At the show in 2011, a reshaped model saw its designers give it an F-22-like sensibility.
> 
> The final design, or at least the one the concept designers have put out this year,* is strongly reminiscent of the Northrop Grumman YF-23 experimental fighter prototype* that lost to the Lockheed-Martin led F-22 Raptor program in 1991.
> 
> *The AMCA&#8217;s new fuselage is stretched, with symmetric trapezoidal wings, notably losing the leading edge extensions that were thought to be part of the design. The aircraft is to sport an internal weapons bay and fully indigenous stealth technologies under development, including radar-absorbent paint and composites.*
> 
> That is the plan, at any rate. With the country&#8217;s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) program increasingly adrift ahead of a 2015 squadron service target, there has been skepticism within the Indian air force (IAF) about the pragmatism of committing resources toward an indigenous fifth-generation platform, especially when more than $10 billion will soon be committed to the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL)-Sukhoi PAK FA-based fighter program. But those concerns haven&#8217;t stood in the way of resources and funding flowing into the AMCA program and an elaborate wish list of technologies being lined up to define an aircraft that almost certainly won&#8217;t see a first flight before the next decade.
> 
> &#8220;*Let&#8217;s be clear: the HAL-Sukhoi program isn&#8217;t a joint effort,&#8221; says an IAF officer with Bengaluru-based Training Command. &#8220;The airframe will be identical to the ones the Russians currently have in flight test.* Our decision to go with a single-seat configuration is principally to avoid potential time overruns that will almost certainly be part of designing such a configuration. *The maximum that HAL will do is insert a few systems of our choice and play lead integrator for the &#8216;MKI,&#8217; if you will.* Therefore,* it is imperative that India look ahead and begin developing technologies and platforms like the AMCA. We cannot forever be a buyer of aircraft that are conceptualized, designed by others, and simply assembled or license-built here.*&#8221;
> 
> A senior scientist at the AMCA directorate in Bengaluru says, &#8220;We have the fourth-generation Tejas on the one hand. But evolutionary technologies we are developing for the AMCA are on the cutting edge. They hope to be comparable with the best in the world. If we need a little help along the way in the interests of pragmatism, cost and time, we will study the feasibility of cooperation. But this ideally needs to be a fully Indian program. Sensitive stealth technologies will not be shared by foreign technology companies.&#8221;
> 
> A brief list of the ambitious technologies that India&#8217;s Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) hopes to equip the AMCA with includes *a panoramic active matrix cockpit, triplex fly-by-light electro-optic architecture, serpentine air intakes to suppress radar signature and an optic-fiber-based digital flight control computer.*



The mock up was suitable for Bankipore fair not an International Air show. The Fin with no LE sweep is an outrage.Surely someone must have cared to see the fin of the Raptor/ F35/PKFA. This is the work of someone who does it for pay and not passion.! Why? All our top people are chosen for &#8220;high administrative abilities&#8221; and not for &#8220;high technical flair&#8221; . So we have large sound Organizations but not necessarily excellent aeroplanes. Elsewhere the pamper the Engineers-even the prickly ones- just as we pamper Sachin who gets the runs. The team manager carries the water so that the troops can stay on the firing line!

The sad point is for this model to have been made it must have been sanctioned at a fairly high level- say G at least. No one saw the gross errors and pitfalls in the shape- there are several .The model must have had the Western aero community quietly laughing up its sleeves. The danger is that shoddy project work leads to bad concepts lurking in the programme and they can be the devil to iron out later. In one&#8217;s more cynical moments one is tempted to think that perhaps that is the Original objective.


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## BlueDot_in_Space

Jayanta said:


> The mock up was suitable for Bankipore fair not an International Air show. The Fin with no LE sweep is an outrage.Surely someone must have cared to see the fin of the Raptor/ F35/PKFA. This is the work of someone who does it for pay and not passion.! Why? All our top people are chosen for &#8220;high administrative abilities&#8221; and not for &#8220;high technical flair&#8221; . So we have large sound Organizations but not necessarily excellent aeroplanes. Elsewhere the pamper the Engineers-even the prickly ones- just as we pamper Sachin who gets the runs. The team manager carries the water so that the troops can stay on the firing line!



Dont comment when you don't have the knowledge of the subject, because it makes you look like an .......

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## S-DUCT



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## sancho

Might have missed this pic, but it's the first of Brahmos fitted on MKI that I saw:

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## whitefox011




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## Jason bourne

sancho said:


> Might have missed this pic, but it's the first of Brahmos fitted on MKI that I saw:



Mock up or real ?


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## trident2010

Jason bourne said:


> Mock up or real ?



Mock up. India still has to test the Brahmos from air.


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## Soumitra

Some photos I clicked at Aero India

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## sancho

Jason bourne said:


> Mock up or real ?



Most likely a mock up, but the first one integrated to the hardpoint. At AI 2011 we have seen it simply placed under the fighter only.


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## S-DUCT



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## S-DUCT



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## Abingdonboy



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## r1MM0n

Sukhoi-27 Russian Knights- Arrival in HD - YouTube

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## Abingdonboy

F-INSAS related equipment on show at AERO INDIA 2013:

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## INDIATEC2020

guys....any info on how is LCA TEJAS is doing..... with its new engine under development


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## Abingdonboy




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## Abingdonboy

BELL @AERO INDIA 2013:






Talks about Indian interest in V-22- 2.40.


Interesting the ICG is supposed to have shown an "interest".


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## Abingdonboy

Walk-around of the Eurocopter AS565 Panther on offer to the IN and ICG:


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## Abingdonboy




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## james5

Thanks for giving this interesting information.


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## kurup

Lot of pictures from Aero India .

https://plus.google.com/photos/1071...73129546145?authkey=CO790ruhhZ7JRQ&banner=pwa

Aero India 2013 Photos by bennedose | Photobucket

nash0503's Library | Photobucket

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