# 5 Most Powerful Muslim Countries



## ahsanraza81

There are more than 57 Muslim countries in the whole world but Today I will be discussing about the 5 most Powerful Muslim countries. The basic Problem most of these countries is that they are having Bad and Corrupt Governments that works for Interest of foreign forces like America instead of Working for benefits of Muslims. Lets discuss about 5 Most Powerful Muslim countries.

*1 Pakistan:* Pakistan is the most Powerful Muslim country in the whole world. It is the only Muslim Nuclear power and having a Large army of 7 Lakh. Its total population is 180 Million. The basic problem of Pakistan is bad leadership. Always bad Government are imposed on Pakistan that works against the national interest of Pakistan. Pakistan also have many enemies that have always tried to Destabilize it like India, US and Israel.

*2 Turkey:* Turkey is the second most Powerful Muslim country of the world. Its also have a large army with weapon of latest technology. Turkey is half in Asia and half in Europe. Its total population is 73,914,260.

*3 Iran: *Iran is the third most Powerful Muslim country. Iran has Shia Majority and its Government is Islamic. Iran is also trying to make Nuclear weapons but not yet succeeded In it . Iran has big wealth of Oil. Its total population is 71,956,322.

*4 Saudi Arabia:* Saudi Arabia is the Fourth most Powerful Muslim country in the world. Most important religious places for Muslims Makkah and Madina are in Saudi Arabia due to which it has great importance in Muslim world. Saudi Arabia also have big wealth of Oil which it exports to other countries. Royal system of Government exists in Saudi Arabia. Its Government is also pro American. Saudi Arabia has also raised some Military power in last few decades with help of Pakistan and other countries. Its Population is 24,645,686.

*5 Malaysia:* Malaysia is fifth most powerful Muslim country in the world. Malaysia has done massive progress in last few years and it is considered one of the most developed countries in the world. It don,t have any enemy due to which its not built much Military power. Its population is 26,992,577.

These are five most powerful Muslim countries. Lets pray that May Allah Swt give Hidaya to their Governments and they start working for benefits of Muslim Umah instead of for enemies of Muslims.

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## nForce

Turkey and Malaysia are not Muslim countries.

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## Xestan

We shouldn't be having these types of lists, at least when it comes to Muslim Countries. That's my personal view.

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## architect_cobb

source??? Or is it self made?

On a personal note don't agree with this list. Today the stability of a country and its strength is primarily based on its economy and not military power and the best way to rank countries would be list them as per their GDP in the descending order. In that case the top 5 would definitely different.

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## bularab

nForce said:


> Turkey and Malaysia are not Muslim countries.


 
They are Muslim countries.


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## Leader

joke of the day !

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## Veni

We are muslim but secular

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## TruthSeeker

ahsanraza81 said:


> The basic Problem most of these countries is that they are having Bad and Corrupt Governments that works for Interest of foreign forces like America instead of Working for benefits of Muslims.
> 
> *1 Pakistan:* Always bad Government are imposed on Pakistan that works against the national interest of Pakistan. Pakistan also have many enemies that have always tried to Destabilize it like India, US and Israel.


 
This is total unadulterated bullcrap. The USA is not an enemy of Pakistan or of Muslims. No governments have been "imposed" on Pakistan since 1947. Pakistan's government, for good or ill, is what the PEOPLE of Pakistan have chosen or allowed. The people of Pakistan have exactly the government they want and deserve. Don't blame all the troubles of Muslims in this world on the USA, Israel, India or the "West". The troubles of Muslims are ENTIRELY their own responsibility. Grow up!!

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## khanz

nForce said:


> Turkey and Malaysia are not Muslim countries.


 
they are both muslim majority countries mate and full OIC members

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

TruthSeeker said:


> This is total unadulterated bullcrap. The USA is not an enemy of Pakistan or of Muslims. No governments have been "imposed" on Pakistan since 1947. Pakistan's government, for good or ill, is what the PEOPLE of Pakistan have chosen or allowed. The people of Pakistan have exactly the government they want and deserve. Don't blame all the troubles of Muslims in this world on the USA, Israel, India or the "West". The troubles of Muslims are ENTIRELY their own responsibility. Grow up!!


 

AGREED. But we just can't deny that the U.S has'nt been a good friend either. Friendship has a give and take relationship. But in U.S-Pak relations, it has only been what U.S wants .

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

bularab said:


> They are Muslim countries.


 
I think he meant from the perspective of Govts

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## nForce

khanz said:


> they are both muslim majority countries mate and full OIC members



I will fully agree with the statement that they are Muslim majority country,but they have a secular structure.So,these cannot be called Muslim countries,just like India cannot be called a Hindu country although Hindu are in majority in India.

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## American Pakistani

How is Pakistan #1, we are not #1 economically nor militarily.

Just tell me a country who cannot save it's borders from intruders, a team of military personnal fly deep inside your territory, land & kill some wanted guys & you don't even had a clue what was going on until the president of that country announced on tv. Your military had no knowledge & world most wanted terrorist was hiding in a military town. The country who cannot save itself from terrorists bombings which after are occuring after every 2 days taken the lives of dozens of peoples(just today one bomb blast in NorthWest kills 24). A country where foriegn drone enters kills & left after every 2 days. & the country who is good to shoot it's civilions & sparks ethnic angers(incident of paramilitary soilders shoot young guy begging for mercy).

No need to write anything for economic progress, as every one knows about the crumbling economy of Pakistan.

List should be remake i doubt Pakistan even in Top 20 Muslim Powers.

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## Veeru

Turkey is a secular state with no official state religion; the Turkish Constitution provides for freedom of religion and conscience.


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## Bail_Gadi_Driver

India has 2nd most Muslims in word, why you didn't included India in your List ....when you can include Turkey which a secular state...you should edit and Put our Neighbor's name too....

But then India will be Rank 1...isn't it ...???

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## asad71

The criterion for the selection is not clear. However, considering population, internal harmony/strength of the country, economy, literacy and military prowess, the 5th position should be jointly held by Malaysia and Indonesia,Bangladesh.


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## Hamna.Pak

Ooooo my pakistan ...
its really really nice to see
thank u so muck Allah


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## Hyde

Pakistan should be last in the list

they can't protect their country how comes they are ranked number 1 in your list?

I would put them somewhere close to the weakest Muslim nations

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## Rao Sahab

nForce said:


> I will fully agree with the statement that they are Muslim majority country,but they have a secular structure.So,these cannot be called Muslim countries,just like India cannot be called a Hindu country although Hindu are in majority in India.


 im thats there only 9 countries with islamic republic what about other 51


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## American Pakistani

Bail_Gadi_Driver said:


> India has 2nd most Muslims in word, why you didn't included India in your List ....when you can include Turkey which a secular state...you should edit and Put our Neighbor's name too....
> 
> But then India will be Rank 1...isn't it ...???


 
But India is'nt a Muslim country, & numerous Muslims have been killed in India, Turkey is a Muslim country with 85-97%(different sources) Muslims & both President & Prime Minister Muslims too.

BTW dude, changing of flags does'nt make you Pakistani.

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## Nalwa

Anybody can make a list. Turkey deserves to be no. 1 if we take all factors into consideration. Blasting a few nuclear weapons and having a large army doesnt make you no.1.

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## justanobserver

Nalwa said:


> Anybody can make a list. Turkey deserves to be no. 1 if we take all factors into consideration. Blasting a few nuclear weapons and having a large army doesnt make you no.1.


 
Turkey then Iran,followed by Pakistan

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## d7o0ome_04

ahsanraza81 said:


> There are more than 57 Muslim countries in the whole world but Today I will be discussing about the 5 most Powerful Muslim countries. The basic Problem most of these countries is that they are having Bad and Corrupt Governments that works for Interest of foreign forces like America instead of Working for benefits of Muslims. Lets discuss about 5 Most Powerful Muslim countries.
> 
> 
> *2 Turkey:* Turkey is the second most Powerful Muslim country of the world. Its also have a large army with weapon of latest technology. Turkey is half in Asia and half in Europe. Its total population is 73,914,260.
> 
> . Royal system of Government exists in Saudi Arabia. Its Government is also pro American. Saudi Arabia has also raised some Military power in last few decades with help of Pakistan and other countries. Its Population is 24,645,686.
> 
> 
> 
> These are five most powerful Muslim countries. Lets pray that May Allah Swt give Hidaya to their Governments and they start working for benefits of Muslim Umah instead of for enemies of Muslims.


 
delete turky from they list they with the nato


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## scrumpy

American Pakistani said:


> But India is'nt a Muslim country, & numerous Muslims have been killed in India


 
I am quiet certain that more Muslims have been killed in Pakistan than in India. How do we interpret that into the list criteria?

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## Galaxy

Few people have changed the Concept of Powerful Nations upside down. Powerful nations are based on Economy, Development, Infra, Political Stability, International acceptance, Strong Influence, and Military. No Offence, But Pakistan can't be in Top Spot. Indeed, It would be in last few. How can countries like Saudi Arabia will be behind ? See the economy. Saudi Arabia can buy Best Weapons within 2 Years but that can't be the criteria.There are 100 more important things. 

If that is Criteria. Then North Korea is No. 1 Buddhist Country. Japan Behind. In Reality, Japan is 50 Times ahead than North Korea. Not too hard to understand overall picture. 

I am saying just on neutral way based on overall facts. Correct me if i am wrong.

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## Urbanized Greyhound

Badly composed list ...If The criteria is Muslim -majority country --Turkey should come first , then Iran , Even Saudi Arabia deserves a name being an energy superpower. 

The way it is , nukes have next to zero --diplomatic or other influence , in the given context . They are just expensive toys.

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## Pioneerfirst

You put Pakistan at the TOP,I would have been much happier if it would have been as Top economy or peaceful country.
*Military power of a certain country have none to deal with the quality life of its citizens.*

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## VelocuR

Everyone forget....Turkey is member of NATO under umbrella. If NATO attack Muslim countries (i.e Pakistan), Turkey is one of NATO member who refused to criticize NATO actions. Without NATO member, Turkey will be exact like Egypt or Iran. 

Analyzing ALL Muslims countries regarding war experiences and doctrines, yes Pakistan is Top on the lists which capable to develop anything.


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## genmirajborgza786

1, Saudi arabia

2, Turkey

3,Malaysia 

4, Iran 

5, U.A.E

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## Galaxy

RaptorRX707 said:


> Everyone forget....Turkey is member of NATO under umbrella. If NATO attack Muslim countries (i.e Pakistan), Turkey is one of NATO member who refused to criticize NATO actions. Without NATO member, Turkey will be exact like Egypt or Iran.
> 
> Analyzing ALL Muslims countries regarding war experiences and doctrines, yes *Pakistan is Top on the lists which capable to develop anything.*



Absolutely. Pakistan can produce everything. List says it all, How, Why and When. Country like Switzerland, Australia, Canada, Brazil, Italy are Failed Nation.

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## Haseebullah

You have got to be kidding me.We all love Pakistan but writing a biased article and comparing our brother Muslim countries with us and declaring ourselves superior is exactly the kind of attitude that got us in this shitty situation.

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## RezRoll

Sorry to say, but Pakistan is no where close to being no.1 among Muslim countries besides it's military might. The country is a mess otherwise.

Malaysia is a Muslim majority country and our government considers us Islamic but with a secular democracy system. 

Personally, I believe economically, Malaysia can be considered best performing Muslim country in the world because unlike the Arab nations, we don't have massive resources of oil and natural resources.

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## GHOST RIDER

Guys chill every body,its most probably an opinion,well i think Iran should be number 1 due to a wealth of natural gas and oil reserves,but it may still take some time for it to become a nuclear state,its auto mobile industry is the biggest in the middle east,they even have an home grown satellite,they even have underground railway system,and are developing home grown millitary equipment


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## Xracer

GHOST RIDER said:


> Guys chill every body,its most probably an opinion,well i think Iran should be number 1 due to a wealth of natural gas and oil reserves,but it may still take some time for it to become a nuclear state,its auto mobile industry is the biggest in the middle east,they even have an home grown satellite,they even have underground railway system,and are developing home grown millitary equipment


 
the thread is about most Powerfull Muslim countries not the Most Developed Muslim countries Pak is On Top Because Of its Big Army And is the only Muslim-majority nation to possess nuclear weapons


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## VelocuR

Galaxy said:


> Absolutely. Pakistan can produce everything. List says it all, How, Why and When. Country like Switzerland, Australia, Canada, Brazil, Italy are Failed Nation.


 
Aside bad leaderships, you are missing the point, Arab countries asking Pakistan to protect their countries and government properties and even asking PAF to train their skills. Arabs indeed request Pakistan to deploy its troops and PAF in Middle East. Don't forget UN peacekeepers serving by Pakistan.


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## VelocuR

Pakistan Army wins Gold Medal in Cambrian Patrols from 16 countries competition.

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## Kambojaric

How are we defining "most powerful"?

Do you mean economically? militarily? politically?

As far as the most powerful economical Muslim country is concerned it has to be Malaysia or Turkey. Iran + Saudi have all of their natural resources they rely upon whilst Malaysia and Turkey truly are developed countries. As far as Pakistan is concerned for me it would be in the top ten at least. After all, we have the 6th largest GDP amongst OIC countries coupled with the 2nd largest population. However our economy is lagging behind now.

May i also ask whats the point of the thread?


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## Hamna.Pak

i think its about Atomic power of pak 
may be thats why pak is no 1 power full country


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

There is no such thing ...

If any 

Its Turkey , Iran and Pakistan followed by Saudia / Egypt 

Rest are all chocolate puffs


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## Peregrine

*Nukes are the game changers people, it is beyond any doubt that Pakistan is the champion of the Muslim word* . It's another story that we have gutless leadership, otherwise, Nukes are the greatest deterrent weapon there is & even super powers will have to think twice before attacking a nuclear capable state. in such scenario we have a very good example of North Korea.


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## Respect4Respect01

i think Saudi Arabia is number 1, because they get support from all Muslim countries of the world anytime they need.

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## wmdisinfo

in my opinion army strenght or tanks are nothing to those who got the will to fight and these are few most powerful muslim countries pakistan turkey iran indonasia egypt


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## wmdisinfo

and about saudi uae and qatar i call them the three stooges


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## Captain03

pakistan is def not # 1 in this list, military wise perhaps but economically and government structure wise there are a couple of countries ahead of us. to name a few; turkey and saudi arabia.


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## Respect4Respect01

wmdisinfo said:


> and about saudi uae and qatar i call them the three stooges


 
dude all Muslim countries follow Saudi Arabia,

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## 53fd

Zaki FX said:


> Pakistan should be last in the list
> 
> they can't protect their country how comes they are ranked number 1 in your list?
> 
> I would put them somewhere close to the weakest Muslim nations


 
Pakistan has gone through so much **** in this WOT, yet there hasn't been the "revolution" aka anarchy that you see in North Africa & the Middle East. Despite suffering billions of $ losses every year on this WOT, the economy is still growing. So that counts for something in my opinion.


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## 53fd

Nalwa said:


> Anybody can make a list. Turkey deserves to be no. 1 if we take all factors into consideration. Blasting a few nuclear weapons and having a large army doesnt make you no.1.


 
Some facts about Pakistan (some of these are out of order in terms of priority):

Facts & Achievements:

a) Pakistan is the world's 4th largest producer of rice

b) Pakistan has the world's widest & extensive irrigation system

c) Pakistan has the 6th Largest Army in the world

d) Pakistan is the 1st Muslim and 7th Nuclear Power of World

e) Pakistan has the 6th largest population in the world

f) Pakistan is the world&#8217;s 9th Largest English Speaking Country

g) Pakistan has world's 7th largest Pool of Scientists and Engineers

h) Pakistan has the highest Tele Density in South Asia

i) Pakistan has the largest WiiMax Network in the World

j) Pakistan has the 2nd Largest Dam in the world (Tarbela Dam). Tarbela Dam is also the world&#8217;s largest earth filled dam

k) Pakistan has the world&#8217;s largest run ambulance network by Edhi

l) 27th biggest economy in the world


Potential:

1. Pakistan has the 4th-largest coal reserves in the world (Thar):

2. Pakistan has the 5th largest gold reserves in the world:

3. Pakistan has the 2nd largest salt mine in the world (Khewra):

4. Pakistan has the world&#8217;s Largest Deep Sea Port: Gwader

There are many other things that I'm probably missing. But this should be good enough to give you the basic picture.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

bilalhaider said:


> Some facts about Pakistan (some of these are out of order in terms of priority):
> 
> Facts & Achievements:
> 
> a) Pakistan is the world's 4th largest producer of rice
> 
> b) Pakistan has the world's widest & extensive irrigation system
> 
> c) Pakistan has the 6th Largest Army in the world
> 
> d) Pakistan is the 1st Muslim and 7th Nuclear Power of World
> 
> e) Pakistan has the 6th largest population in the world
> 
> f) Pakistan is the world&#8217;s 9th Largest English Speaking Country
> 
> g) Pakistan has world's 7th largest Pool of Scientists and Engineers
> 
> h) Pakistan has the highest Tele Density in South Asia
> 
> i) Pakistan has the largest WiiMax Network in the World
> 
> j) Pakistan has the 2nd Largest Dam in the world (Tarbela Dam). Tarbela Dam is also the world&#8217;s largest earth filled dam
> 
> k) Pakistan has the world&#8217;s largest run ambulance network by Edhi
> 
> l) 27th biggest economy in the world
> 
> 
> Potential:
> 
> 1. Pakistan has the 4th-largest coal reserves in the world (Thar):
> 
> 2. Pakistan has the 5th largest gold reserves in the world:
> 
> 3. Pakistan has the 2nd largest salt mine in the world (Khewra):
> 
> 4. Pakistan has the world&#8217;s Largest Deep Sea Port: Gwader
> 
> There are many other things that I'm probably missing. But this should be good enough to give the picture.


 
We will get back on track with full force soon......Inshallah!

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## 53fd

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> We will get back on track with full force soon......Inshallah!


 
Let me tell you something about Sri Lanka, which is doing so well right now (this is a bit off-topic, but I still want to make my point).







They had more deaths in Sri Lanka through the suicide bombings of the Indian sponsored LTTE from 2000 to 2009 than Pakistan has had from 2003-2011:






With a population of only 21 million, Sri Lanka saw more terrorism than what Pakistan did in its worst period from 2003-2011, & Pakistan has almost 9 times the population of Sri Lanka (180 million). Pakistan has only really started seeing real casualties from terrorism since 2003, whereas Sri Lanka has been seeing it for more than 20 years. Also see how there have been 0 casualties in Sri Lanka in 2010 & 2011 (up till now). It is possible for nations to get past this temporary phase of terrorism. Another example of a country ravaged by terrorism in the past is Turkey, through the PKK. Terrorism is a temporary phase, & nations get past it. It won't be any different for Pakistan either.

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## jeypore

genmirajborgza786 said:


> 1, Saudi arabia
> 
> 2, Turkey
> 
> 3,Malaysia
> 
> 4, Iran
> 
> 5, U.A.E



You are 100% right in your list, but wrong, based on me, interms of 1 to 5:

1. Turkey
2. Iran
3. Saudi arabia
4. U.A.E
5. Malaysia 
6. Pakistan

If you noticed this is set by GDP and that is more power in today's world then Military might!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 53fd

jeypore said:


> You are 100% right in your list, but wrong, based on me, interms of 1 to 5:
> 
> 1. Turkey
> 2. Iran
> 3. Saudi arabia
> 4. U.A.E
> 5. Malaysia
> 6. Pakistan
> 
> If you noticed this is set by GDP and that is more power in today's world then Military might!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
In terms of 'strongest' Muslim countries by GDP (PPP), this is what you get (2010 estimates):

1. Turkey: $931 billion
2. Iran: $860 billion
3. Saudi Arabia: $600 billion
4. Pakistan: $464 billion
5. Egypt: $453 billion
6. Malaysia: $398 billion
7. Bangladesh: $229 billion
8. UAE: $187 billion

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## jeypore

bilalhaider said:


> In terms of 'strongest' Muslim countries by GDP (PPP), this is what you get (2010 estimates):
> 
> 1. Turkey: $931 billion
> 2. Iran: $860 billion
> 3. Saudi Arabia: $600 billion
> *4. Pakistan: $460 billion*5. Egypt: $453 billion
> 6. Malaysia: $398 billion
> 7. Bangladesh: $229 billion
> 8. UAE: $187 billion



I like your enthusiasm about Pakistan's standings, but are you sure you are not quoting PPP, instead of the real GDP, which is close to $161-$174 billion......

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## 53fd

jeypore said:


> I like your enthusiasm about Pakistan's standings, but are you sure you are not quoting PPP, instead of the real GDP, which is close to $161-$174 billion......


 
The 'real' GDP you are talking about is the nominal GDP. The GDP (PPP) is just as 'real' as the GDP nominal, depends how you look at things. Nominal GDP is completely separate measurement from GDP (PPP). Pakistan's nominal GDP was $180 billion in 2010, & has increased after that.


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## Ammyy

bilalhaider said:


> The 'real' GDP you are talking about is the nominal GDP. The GDP (PPP) is just as 'real' as the GDP nominal, depends how you look at things. Nominal GDP is completely separate measurement from GDP (PPP). Pakistan's nominal GDP was $180 billion in 2010, & has increased after that.


 
please give any link for 180 billion GDP

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## jeypore

bilalhaider said:


> The 'real' GDP you are talking about is the nominal GDP. The GDP (PPP) is just as 'real' as the GDP nominal, depends how you look at things. Nominal GDP is completely separate measurement from GDP (PPP). Pakistan's nominal GDP was $180 billion in 2010, & has increased after that.


 
SOOOOOOOOOOO, are you tryyyyyyyy to say I was Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!



> The GDP (PPP) is just as 'real' as the GDP nominal, depends how you look at things



Regarding this sentence of yours, the PPP represents how much your gov't is capable of Purchasing from other countries before they start taking over.. I think that just sounded little Jewis or Shah's in India..............

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## Galaxy

Everyone can make one list as per wish.

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## monitor

i have forgotten source but it will be Pakistan GDP will be 205 billion this year .


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## AUz

*Muslim world* is no way near its *actual potential *. . . So all the crap talk about "powerful" Muslim countries is BS ! *ONLY 4 capitals matter in the world*

1-Washington
2-Beijing
3-Moscow
4-Brussels 

No one else even matters !!! So first focus on improving rather than posting this BS of "powerful" Muslim countries . . Its not the past where you guys were conquers,super powers,military powers and economic powers . . Its 21st century ! -----Survival of the fittest.--- We all saw what happened in Iraq war . . . Where were your "five top powerful" Muslim countries? They could not even prevent US invasion through diplomacy when I sincerely believe that Arabs could actually have prevented it through extensive use of diplomacy !


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## Galaxy

How come Iran is Powerful Country when they are running for Life from U.S. and allies ?

How come Saudi Arabia is Powerful Country when they have surrender themselves to U.S. by giving base ?

How come Pakistan is Powerful Country when U.S. can break it's sovereignty and can do whatever and Pakistan is helpless ?

How come Turkey is powerful country when they are Nato Members means U.S. ally ?


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## SurvivoR

You forgot to add the most important capital of allin the list of capitals that matter. 

TEL AVIV.


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## AUz

SurvivoR said:


> You forgot to add the most important capital of allin the list of capitals that matter.
> 
> TEL AVIV.


 
Since I am not a conspiracy theorist and don't believe that Jews secretly control all the world or whatever ...so I wouldn't rank Tel Aviv in the list of those capitals.Take out NATO/US support from the equation and Israel is done !! Egypt can handle them pretty much . . .


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## AmberDutt

So an observation. According to the OP, the most powerful Muslim state is also in the list of 10 countries most likely to fail.. Interesting.. Isnt it?

To me it sounds like an oxymoron


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## EjazR

How about defining the criteria for selecting the country first.

GDP (PPP) gets 30% weightage
size of Population above poverty line gets 30 % weightage
Military spending in US $ gets 20 % weightage
Number of armed forces personnel gets 20% weighatage
Spending on Education and R&D as a % of GDP gets 10% weightage


And voila you have a crude power index. Of course you can add removed factors and increase decrease their weightage but that's how you should be looking a power.


And even more surprising is no one mentioned Indonesia yet, the first Muslim majority country to have a $ 1trillion+ economy GDP (PPP) and a member of the G20

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## 53fd

DRDO said:


> please give any link for 180 billion GDP


 
Actually, I was a bit off, my bad. The GDP Nominal was $174.9 billion in 2010:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pk.html


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## 53fd

jeypore said:


> I like your enthusiasm about Pakistan's standings, but are you sure you are not quoting PPP, instead of the real GDP, which is close to $161-$174 billion......


 
Pakistan's GDP (PPP) was $464.9 billion in 2010:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pk.html


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## OrionHunter

American Pakistani said:


> How is Pakistan #1? i doubt Pakistan even in Top 20 Muslim Powers.


 What he's based it on is:
1. Nukes.
2. Military strength.

Whatever happened to the main fundamentals like (Listed in no particular order):

1. Natural resources.
2. Quality of life.
3. Good governance.
4. Health.
5. Education.
6. Poverty index.
7. GDP. 
8. Personal freedoms.
9. Industrial capacity.
10. Discipline.

Where does Pakistan stand on all these aspects? Nukes and military strength doesn't make a nation great! Period!

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## 53fd

OrionHunter said:


> What he's based it on is:
> 1. Nukes.
> 2. Military strength.
> 
> Whatever happened to the main fundamentals like (Listed in no particular order):
> 
> 1. Natural resources.
> 2. Quality of life.
> 3. Good governance.
> 4. Health.
> 5. Education.
> 6. Poverty index.
> 7. GDP.
> 8. Personal freedoms.
> 9. Industrial capacity.
> 10. Discipline.
> 
> Where does Pakistan stand on all these aspects? Nukes and military strength doesn't make a nation great! Period!


 
I suggest you look at Post # 47. It answers a lot of your questions, & I can answer you the other stuff as well.


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## Galaxy

bilalhaider said:


> Pakistan's GDP (PPP) was $464.9 billion in 2010:
> 
> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pk.html


 

If PPP is criteria then Turkey, Iran and Saudi Arbia is Ahead than Pakistan. 

For Overall Check -- List of countries by GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Galaxy

bilalhaider said:


> I suggest you look at Post # 47. It answers a lot of your questions, & I can answer you the other stuff as well.


 
There are 1000's of such things. Every country is in some rank of specific thing. It's doesn't make sense and make overall picture. GDP tells everything as per economics.


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## Masterchief

Military is not always the best criteria to decide who is best or not.


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## Galaxy

India is currently close to Rank 3rd ( Japan @ 3rd) in GDP (PPP) after U.S. and China. 2011 data is not out, There is very small difference between Japan and India.


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## 53fd

Galaxy said:


> If PPP is criteria then Turkey, Iran and Saudi Arbia is Ahead than Pakistan.
> 
> For Overall Check -- List of countries by GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 
This is what I said before:




bilalhaider said:


> In terms of 'strongest' Muslim countries by GDP (PPP), this is what you get (2010 estimates):
> 
> 1. Turkey: $931 billion
> 2. Iran: $860 billion
> 3. Saudi Arabia: $600 billion
> 4. Pakistan: $464 billion
> 5. Egypt: $453 billion
> 6. Malaysia: $398 billion
> 7. Bangladesh: $229 billion
> 8. UAE: $187 billion


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## Galaxy

Masterchief said:


> Military is not always the best criteria to decide who is best or not.



Military is never the criteria. It can be done in short of span if economy is strong. Otherwise Israel is Powerful and Australia, Canada, Italy, Brazil are not. Simple to understand.


----------



## OrionHunter

bilalhaider said:


> I suggest you look at Post # 47. It answers a lot of your questions, & I can answer you the other stuff as well.


Bilal bhai, thanks for your very informative post, but the point remains that in spite of all the positives, they don't translate to much. For example, Pakistan may be the 6th biggest rice producer in the world, but yet a significant proportion of the population doesn't even get one square meal a day! 

It's nice to know that Pakistan has the largest WiiMax Network, the 2nd largest dam etc, but that doesn't count to much if the fundamentals that I mentioned in my post are absent! 

So what I've written in my post stands! 

Cheers!


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## RezRoll

EjazR said:


> And even more surprising is no one mentioned Indonesia yet, the first Muslim majority country to have a $ 1trillion+ economy GDP (PPP) and a member of the G20


 
GDP is a bad indicator of the wealth of the nation because most of time it is subject to the nation's population. Indonesia might have a 1 trillion+ economy but most of it's citizens are poor as heck.

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## AUz

Rezavan said:


> GDP is a bad indicator of the wealth of the nation because most of time it is subject to the nation's population. Indonesia might have a 1 trillion+ economy but *most of it's citizens are poor as heck.*


 
No...Then don't even count China as "powerful" because they also have some poverty problems..Indonesia is good very well economically.Their focus is right..They are moving in right direction and about poverty...believe me they are much,much,much better than Sub-continent ! 

PS. I am not saying BS that they are "powerful" or not ..what I am saying is that Indonesia has his priorities right..unlike many other nations..

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## blood

have we ever seen something like strongest christian countries , strongest buddhist countries, strongest jewish countries, or even strongest hindu nations , it is just these pakistani's who make such list's to satisfy their false pride, anyhow pakistan is more seen as a failed nation when it come's to world ranking's


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## RezRoll

AUz said:


> No...Then don't even count China as "powerful" because they also have some poverty problems..Indonesia is good very well economically.They focus is right..They are moving in right direction and about poverty...believe me they are much,much,much better than Sub-continent !
> 
> PS. I am not saying BS that they are "powerful" or not ..what I am saying is that Indonesia has his priorities right..unlike many other nations..


 
Indonesia is better than any country in the sub-continent (India might a valid debate about that though). Indonesia has a very big economy under it's arm and they're moving in the right direction. That I agree.

But that aside, saying Indonesia is an economy powerhouse is no way true, half of the nation is poor, inflation is ridiculous, corruption is everywhere and half of them come to Malaysia to find low-end jobs. The country still has a very long way to go even if compared to Malaysia.

Singapore's GDP is only $182.23 Billion but out of every 10 people there, one person is a millionaire.

Like i said, using GDP to assess a country's well being is very flawed.


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## Chow chow

#1. Turkey

#2. Malaysia

#3. Saudi Arabia

#4 UAE

#5 Indonesia


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## Galaxy

Only Pakistani people thinks of Muslim Nations, Muslims Brothers and Muslim Powerful Countries.

I never seen Germany, France, Italy, U.K. Comparing on Religion basis. Even U.S. and Russia are rival. latin Americans countries have rivalry. North Korea and South Korea hates each other when both are Buddhist. One should compare to each other by ever mean except religion.

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## Galaxy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Failed_States_Index

Pakistan is ranked @ 10th as Failed Country.

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## RezRoll

Galaxy said:


> Only Pakistani people thinks of Muslim Nations, Muslims Brothers and Muslim Powerful Countries.


 
I have noticed this since coming here. Pakistanis here have an obsession with Muslim brotherhood.

I don't buy this Muslim brotherhood thing.. not when Indonesians are hunting for Malaysians with sharpen bamboo sticks on the street of Jakarta, not when Muslim people from the subcontinent are treated like crap in Arab nations, not when Iraq and Kuwait fought the Gulf war and definitely not when terrorist in Pakistan are killing our very own Muslim people

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

Galaxy said:


> Failed state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Pakistan is ranked @ 10th as Failed Country.


 

and India is ranked no. 1 now. Wikipedia eh?? 

---------- Post added at 01:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 PM ----------




Rezavan said:


> I have noticed this since coming here. Pakistanis here have an obsession with Muslim brotherhood.
> 
> I don't buy this Muslim brotherhood thing.. not when Indonesians are hunting for Malaysians with sharpen bamboo sticks on the street of Jakarta, not when Muslim people from the subcontinent are treated like crap in Arab nations, not when Iraq and Kuwait fought the Gulf war and definitely not when terrorist in Pakistan are killing our very own Muslim people


 

what is wrong with Muslim Brotherhood???

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## Chow chow

LEGENDARY WARRIOR said:


> and India is ranked no. 1 now. *Wikipedia* eh??
> 
> ---------- Post added at 01:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 PM ----------




http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4964934.stm

http://archives.dawn.com/archives/82397


----------



## Galaxy

LEGENDARY WARRIOR said:


> and India is ranked no. 1 now. Wikipedia eh??
> 
> ---------- Post added at 01:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what is wrong with Muslim Brotherhood???



India is not even in the list. 19 Countries are in category of Failed Countries. Including Pakistan ranked @ 10th. Other countries are Somalia, Iraq, Sudan, Nigeria, Kenya, Ethiopia, Chad, etc. 

Comparison should be done Country Wise not Religion Wise. Have you heard Christian Brotherhood ? Indeed, Germany-Italy-France-U.K. have rivalry. So Russia-U.S.A. N.K-S.K.-JAPAN (All 3 are Buddhist Countries)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Failed_States_Index


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

Chow chow said:


> BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan 'is a top failed state'
> 
> Pakistan ranks 10th among `failed states` | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia | DAWN.COM


 


Lolx. . The research was done by country that got its trade centre and Military centre blown up despite of having the most advanced tech and the largest networking agency in the World. 

I won't be surprised even if they rank it no.1. .

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

Galaxy said:


> India is not even in the list. 19 Countries are in category of Failed Countries. Including Pakistan ranked @ 10th. Other countries are Somalia, Iraq, Sudan, Nigeria, Kenya, Ethiopia, Chad, etc.



Look again. . 



Galaxy said:


> Comparison should be done Country Wise not Religion Wise. Have you heard Christian Brotherhood ? Indeed, Germany-Italy-France-U.K. have rivalry. So Russia-U.S.A. N.K-S.K.-JAPAN (All 3 are Buddhist Countries)


 

Who is comparing or even competing. We just want Muslim countries to have friendly relations.


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## RezRoll

LEGENDARY WARRIOR said:


> and India is ranked no. 1 now. Wikipedia eh??
> 
> ---------- Post added at 01:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> what is wrong with Muslim Brotherhood???


 
Nothing wrong with it.. Besides the fact that all this Muslim brotherhood talk seems to vanish into air, the moment a small conflict or war happens.. as we have seen countless times throughout history


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## Galaxy

LEGENDARY WARRIOR said:


> Look again. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who is comparing or even competing. We just want Muslim countries to have friendly relations.


 

You Look again. This is what happens when people don't read before posting. India is ranked @ 79th and Russia @ 80th. Even China is @ 62nd. Anyway, These countries are not Failed. Somalia is Ranked 1st and Pakistan @ 10th. As of now only 19 countries are failed. 

File:Failed-states-index-2010.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Failed_States_Index


There was error earlier. Wiki corrected


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## blood

LEGENDARY WARRIOR said:


> Look again. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who is comparing or even competing. We just want Muslim countries to have friendly relations.


 
read the topic of dissusion and then say that you are not comparing , nobody gives a damn about this muslim brotherhood , it is just you pakistani's who see every thing from your religious lenses.when saudi arabia sign's any deal with pakistan, the pakistani national's go mad on the forum's, calling saudi as their blood brother , while the fact is that saudi arabia does same business with other nation's as well , including INDIA.So just stop this B.S

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## BRICS

Out of all the Muslim nations, I can't help but respect Iran (even though I don't agree with everything they do)! It's like 300 reversed. Iran is standing their ground pretty much against most of the world!


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## 500

5 Top economies:

1. Indonesia 
2. Turkey
3. S.Arabia 
4. Iran 
5. UAE

5 Top air forces:

1. S.Arabia
2. Turkey
3. Egypt
4. UAE
5. Pakistan

5 Top navies:

1. Turkey
2. Pakistan
3. Iran
4. Egypt
5. Indonesia

5 Top armies:

1. Egypt
2. Pakistan
3. Turkey
4. Iran 
5. S. Arabia

5 Top unconventional/ballistic missile:

1. Pakistan
2. Iran
3. Syria
4. Egypt
5. Turkey

----------------

Total points (1st place - 5 pt, 2nd place - 4 pt, .... 5th place - 1 pt):

Turkey - 17 pt
Pakistan - 14 pt
Egypt - 12 pt
Iran - 11 pt
S.Arabia - 9 pt
Indonesia - 6 pt
UAE - 3 pt
Syria - 3 pt

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## Nalwa

bilalhaider said:


> Some facts about Pakistan (some of these are out of order in terms of priority):
> 
> Facts & Achievements:
> 
> a) Pakistan is the world's 4th largest producer of rice
> 
> b) Pakistan has the world's widest & extensive irrigation system
> 
> c) Pakistan has the 6th Largest Army in the world
> 
> d) Pakistan is the 1st Muslim and 7th Nuclear Power of World
> 
> e) Pakistan has the 6th largest population in the world
> 
> f) Pakistan is the world&#8217;s 9th Largest English Speaking Country
> 
> g) Pakistan has world's 7th largest Pool of Scientists and Engineers
> 
> h) Pakistan has the highest Tele Density in South Asia
> 
> i) Pakistan has the largest WiiMax Network in the World
> 
> j) Pakistan has the 2nd Largest Dam in the world (Tarbela Dam). Tarbela Dam is also the world&#8217;s largest earth filled dam
> 
> k) Pakistan has the world&#8217;s largest run ambulance network by Edhi
> 
> l) 27th biggest economy in the world
> 
> 
> Potential:
> 
> 1. Pakistan has the 4th-largest coal reserves in the world (Thar):
> 
> 2. Pakistan has the 5th largest gold reserves in the world:
> 
> 3. Pakistan has the 2nd largest salt mine in the world (Khewra):
> 
> 4. Pakistan has the world&#8217;s Largest Deep Sea Port: Gwader
> 
> There are many other things that I'm probably missing. But this should be good enough to give you the basic picture.


 
Why so defensive? I didnt say Pakistan was a failure. It just doesnt deserve to be no. 1. Your own countrymen in this thread have brought up issues like sovereignty and all. Can a country be powerful without sovereignty?

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## twoplustwoisfour

LEGENDARY WARRIOR said:


> and India is ranked no. 1 now. Wikipedia eh??
> 
> ---------- Post added at 01:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what is wrong with Muslim Brotherhood???


 
@mods I was previously banned for allegations of falsification of facts on wiki and then subsequently posting the same on pdf. I request that the same criteria be applied over here.


----------



## Jango

American Pakistani said:


> How is Pakistan #1, we are not #1 economically nor militarily.
> 
> Just tell me a country who cannot save it's borders from intruders, a team of military personnal fly deep inside your territory, land & kill some wanted guys & you don't even had a clue what was going on until the president of that country announced on tv. Your military had no knowledge & world most wanted terrorist was hiding in a military town. The country who cannot save itself from terrorists bombings which after are occuring after every 2 days taken the lives of dozens of peoples(just today one bomb blast in NorthWest kills 24). A country where foriegn drone enters kills & left after every 2 days. & the country who is good to shoot it's civilions & sparks ethnic angers(incident of paramilitary soilders shoot young guy begging for mercy).
> 
> No need to write anything for economic progress, as every one knows about the crumbling economy of Pakistan.
> 
> List should be remake i doubt Pakistan even in Top 20 Muslim Powers.


 
the US SEALS came in highly modified helis man, not some jumping jacks who came riding on dinkeys. And we did know that helis had intruded, once we knew it was US, we couldnt do anything. No country can destroy US helis.

people like you dont deserve to be a pakistani, you should be striving to make progress for your country but you instead start criticizing pakistan.

You should be criticizing the *state* of pakistan not the country and republic of pakistan.


----------



## Jango

500 said:


> 5 Top economies:
> 
> 1. Indonesia
> 2. Turkey
> 3. S.Arabia
> 4. Iran
> 5. UAE
> 
> 5 Top air forces:
> 
> 1. S.Arabia
> 2. Turkey
> 3. Egypt
> 4. UAE
> 5. Pakistan
> 
> 5 Top navies:
> 
> 1. Turkey
> 2. Pakistan
> 3. Iran
> 4. Egypt
> 5. Indonesia
> 
> 5 Top armies:
> 
> 1. Egypt
> 2. Pakistan
> 3. Turkey
> 4. Iran
> 5. S. Arabia
> 
> 5 Top unconventional/ballistic missile:
> 
> 1. Pakistan
> 2. Iran
> 3. Syria
> 4. Egypt
> 5. Turkey
> 
> ----------------
> 
> Total points (1st place - 5 pt, 2nd place - 4 pt, .... 5th place - 1 pt):
> 
> Turkey - 17 pt
> Pakistan - 14 pt
> Egypt - 12 pt
> Iran - 11 pt
> S.Arabia - 9 pt
> Indonesia - 6 pt
> UAE - 3 pt
> Syria - 3 pt


 
agreed with this list as a whole, but saudi arab has absolutely junk pilots, they might have the best weaponry, but pilot skill also matters a bit. Pakistan should be a bit ahead of UAE and saudia, maybe egypt as well.


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## Jango

Rezavan said:


> I have noticed this since coming here. Pakistanis here have an obsession with Muslim brotherhood.
> 
> I don't buy this Muslim brotherhood thing.. not when Indonesians are hunting for Malaysians with sharpen bamboo sticks on the street of Jakarta, not when Muslim people from the subcontinent are treated like crap in Arab nations, not when Iraq and Kuwait fought the Gulf war and definitely not when terrorist in Pakistan are killing our very own Muslim people


 me neither, just look at the afghans.!


----------



## crankthatskunk

nForce said:


> Turkey and Malaysia are not Muslim countries.



hehehe,The best joke I have heard in a long while. Could qualify as joke of the decade.


----------



## crankthatskunk

500 said:


> 5 Top economies:
> 
> 1. Indonesia
> 2. Turkey
> 3. S.Arabia
> 4. Iran
> 5. UAE
> 
> 5 Top air forces:
> 
> 1. S.Arabia
> 2. Turkey
> 3. Egypt
> 4. UAE
> 5. Pakistan
> 
> 5 Top navies:
> 
> 1. Turkey
> 2. Pakistan
> 3. Iran
> 4. Egypt
> 5. Indonesia
> 
> 5 Top armies:
> 
> 1. Egypt
> 2. Pakistan
> 3. Turkey
> 4. Iran
> 5. S. Arabia
> 
> 5 Top unconventional/ballistic missile:
> 
> 1. Pakistan
> 2. Iran
> 3. Syria
> 4. Egypt
> 5. Turkey
> 
> ----------------
> 
> Total points (1st place - 5 pt, 2nd place - 4 pt, .... 5th place - 1 pt):
> 
> Turkey - 17 pt
> Pakistan - 14 pt
> Egypt - 12 pt
> Iran - 11 pt
> S.Arabia - 9 pt
> Indonesia - 6 pt
> UAE - 3 pt
> Syria - 3 pt



If you up from your sleep, care to explain, how Saudis have better Airforce and Egypt have better Army than Pakistan? Not to mention you have listed Even UAE better than Pakistan. Only having assets does not mean you are capable to use it and fight. UAE and Saudi Arabia should not be even in the Equation when it comes to strength. They buy weapons because American military complex needs to sell their weapons. Saudi and UAE are storage facilities for Americans, paid in full by these useless countries.

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## AHMED85

500 said:


> 5 Top economies:
> 
> 1. Indonesia
> 2. Turkey
> 3. S.Arabia
> 4. Iran
> 5. UAE
> 
> 5 Top air forces:
> 
> 1. S.Arabia
> 2. Turkey
> 3. Egypt
> 4. UAE
> 5. Pakistan
> 
> 5 Top navies:
> 
> 1. Turkey
> 2. Pakistan
> 3. Iran
> 4. Egypt
> 5. Indonesia
> 
> 5 Top armies:
> 
> 1. Egypt
> 2. Pakistan
> 3. Turkey
> 4. Iran
> 5. S. Arabia
> 
> 5 Top unconventional/ballistic missile:
> 
> 1. Pakistan
> 2. Iran
> 3. Syria
> 4. Egypt
> 5. Turkey
> 
> ----------------
> 
> Total points (1st place - 5 pt, 2nd place - 4 pt, .... 5th place - 1 pt):
> 
> Turkey - 17 pt
> Pakistan - 14 pt
> Egypt - 12 pt
> Iran - 11 pt
> S.Arabia - 9 pt
> Indonesia - 6 pt
> UAE - 3 pt
> Syria - 3 pt


 
What are the top five Developed Muslim Country....


----------



## ahsanraza81

> Some facts about Pakistan (some of these are out of order in terms of priority):
> 
> Facts & Achievements:
> 
> a) Pakistan is the world's 4th largest producer of rice
> 
> b) Pakistan has the world's widest & extensive irrigation system
> 
> c) Pakistan has the 6th Largest Army in the world
> 
> d) Pakistan is the 1st Muslim and 7th Nuclear Power of World
> 
> e) Pakistan has the 6th largest population in the world
> 
> f) Pakistan is the world&#8217;s 9th Largest English Speaking Country
> 
> g) Pakistan has world's 7th largest Pool of Scientists and Engineers
> 
> h) Pakistan has the highest Tele Density in South Asia
> 
> i) Pakistan has the largest WiiMax Network in the World
> 
> j) Pakistan has the 2nd Largest Dam in the world (Tarbela Dam). Tarbela Dam is also the world&#8217;s largest earth filled dam
> 
> k) Pakistan has the world&#8217;s largest run ambulance network by Edhi
> 
> l) 27th biggest economy in the world
> 
> 
> Potential:
> 
> 1. Pakistan has the 4th-largest coal reserves in the world (Thar):
> 
> 2. Pakistan has the 5th largest gold reserves in the world:
> 
> 3. Pakistan has the 2nd largest salt mine in the world (Khewra):
> 
> 4. Pakistan has the world&#8217;s Largest Deep Sea Port: Gwader
> 
> There are many other things that I'm probably missing. But this should be good enough to give you the basic picture.



Pakistan has worlds 2nd hightest peak - K2

*K2 is the second-highest mountain on Earth, after Mount Everest.* With a peak elevation of 8,611 m (28,251 feet), K2 is part of the Karakoram Range, and is located on the border[2] between Gilgit, in Gilgit-Baltistan of Pakistan and the Taxkorgan Tajik Autonomous County of Xinjiang, China.[3][note] It is more hazardous to reach K2 from the Chinese side; thus, it is mostly climbed from the Pakistani side.

K2 is known as the Savage Mountain due to the difficulty of ascent and the second-highest fatality rate among the "eight thousanders" for those who climb it. For every four people who have reached the summit, one has died trying.[4] Unlike Annapurna, the mountain with the highest fatality rate, K2 has never been climbed in winter.


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## ahsanraza81

Developed Muslim Countries 

Turkey
Malaysia
UAE
Saudi Arabia
Iran


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## kobiraaz

Galaxy said:


> Only Pakistani people thinks of Muslim Nations, Muslims Brothers and Muslim Powerful Countries.
> 
> I never seen Germany, France, Italy, U.K. Comparing on Religion basis. Even U.S. and Russia are rival. latin Americans countries have rivalry. North Korea and South Korea hates each other when both are Buddhist. One should compare to each other by ever mean except religion.


 
Maybe you and those countries are not religious . . Religion is not important to you. . . But for some people it is the most important thing in life... A cow will never understand the taste of meat and a tiger will never understand the taste of grass..


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## Rao Sahab

500 said:


> 5 Top economies
> 
> 5 Top armies:
> 
> 1. Egypt
> 2. Pakistan
> 3. Turkey
> 4. Iran
> 5. S. Arabia


 
i am not agry 
my list


pakistan
turkey
iran
egypt
saudia arabia

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## kobiraaz

It is easy to understand the thread starter meant current military strength by the term ''powerful'' and wrote his biased opinion. You can't rate and serial these countries. But you can divide under categories. Such as - category A - Pakistan, Iran, Egypt , turkey (powerful nations ). Category B - Morocco, Algeria, Syria, Libya, KSA, UAE, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia. Category C- others.. Everyone has problems. . Pakistan is overrated. Recent USA invasion, drone attacks, failure to fight against terrorism proves it is too vulnerable. Turkey is under NATO. KSA UAE got money but lack skills. Bangladesh is busy fighting poverty and got weak air force. Malaysia, Indonesia still a long way to reach category A but they got potentialities.. Being a poor tiny country surprisingly Bangladesh has done great to establish organised military. . I hope to see it as capable of fighting elite nations after 2050.


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## Bond

This same attitude of giving religion highest importance will keep on hampering progress of muslim countries...



Bangla fighter said:


> Maybe you and those countries are not religious . . Religion is not important to you. . . But for some people it is the most important thing in life... A cow will never understand the taste of meat and a tiger will never understand the taste of grass..


----------



## kobiraaz

Bond said:


> This same attitude of giving religion highest importance will keep on hampering progress of muslim countries...


 
one specific example please.


----------



## prototype

I think the list was only created to put Pakistan's name on the top,well it is utter bull$hit,on what basis the thread starter beleives Pakistan is the most powerful Muslim country just because they have weapon's.

Power is not just about WMD's,it includes many thing.

Economically the most powerful in the list is Turkey(though its not a Muslim country,a secular nation according to its constitution) which also fields one of the most advanced military in the Muslim world.

In terms of resources,their is Saudi Arabia,the biggest spender on defense among the Islamic world and biggest producer of oil.

Trade,again were does Pakistan stands in front of Saudi,Turkey and Iran.

And finally about Ingenuity,Iran leads the list her.

And finally about stability,I think I dont need to provide an explanation.

So such list's are basically vague,in your Iran is the only nation which dares to stand against US,the rest being it's allies,puppets whatever,so in that respect Iran is the most powerful.


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## 500

crankthatskunk said:


> If you up from your sleep, care to explain, how Saudis have better Airforce


154 F-15, 24 Eurofighter, 110 Tornado.



> and Egypt have better Army than Pakistan?


1000 M1A1, 1000 M60A3..



> Not to mention you have listed Even UAE better than Pakistan.


80 F-16 block 60 AESA radar, 68 Mirage 2000.

Pakistan: 18 F-16 block 52, 30 JF-17


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## wmdisinfo

500 said:


> 154 F-15, 24 Eurofighter, 110 Tornado.
> 
> 
> 1000 M1A1, 1000 M60A3..
> 
> 
> 
> 80 F-16 block 60 AESA radar, 68 Mirage 2000.
> 
> Pakistan: 18 F-16 block 52, 30 JF-17


 
well give accurate numbers and type of weapons eing domestically made?1000 m1ai????? lol we make tanks by our selves we dont buy.

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## Rao Sahab

in the terms of defense 
these are the fact which make pakistan no1 
1 pakistan had world 7 most powerfull airforce
2 pakistan had world 6 most power full army
3 pakistan had world 11 most power full navy
4 pakistan is 7th nucleur power of the world
5 pakistan has world most strongest commando 
6 pakistan has no 1 intelligence agency

there are lot much but these are the.... highlights

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## VelocuR

500 said:


> 154 F-15, 24 Eurofighter, 110 Tornado.
> 
> 
> 1000 M1A1, 1000 M60A3..
> 
> 
> 80 F-16 block 60 AESA radar, 68 Mirage 2000.
> 
> Pakistan: 18 F-16 block 52, 30 JF-17




Why Arabs Need Their Foreign Mercenaries
by James Dunnigan
March 24, 2011
*
Saudi Arabia recently bought 72 Typhoon jet fighters from Britain. The manufacturer, BAE Systems, is energetically recruiting qualified maintenance personnel to keep these aircraft flying. Few Saudis will be recruited, most of these technicians will come from the West. Why is that?
*
The unemployment rate in Saudi Arabia is 12 percent, but many of those men are unemployed by choice. Arabs tend to have a very high opinion of themselves, and most jobs available, even to poorly educated young men, do not satisfy. Thus most Saudis prefer a government job, where the work is easy, the pay is good, the title is flattering, and life is boring. In the non-government sector of the economy, 90 percent of the Saudi jobs are taken by foreigners. These foreigners comprise 27 percent of the Saudi population, mostly to staff all the non-government jobs. This means most young Saudi men have few challenges. One might say that many of them are desperate for some test of their worth, and a job in the competitive civilian economy does not do it, nor does the military.

The Saudi employment situation is not unique. The UAE (United Arab Emirates) has foreigners occupying 99 percent of the non-government jobs. The unemployment rate is 23 percent, but only a tenth of those are actually looking for a job. A survey indicated that most of the unemployed are idle by choice. Kuwait is more entrepreneurial, with only 80 percent of the non-government jobs taken by foreigners. The other Gulf Arab states (which have less oil) have a similar situation.

*While the thousands of aircraft, helicopters, armored vehicles and other high-tech systems Saudi Arabia has bought in the last decade look impressive, the actual impact of all this lethal hardware depends a lot on the skill of those using it. In this department, the Saudis have some serious problems. And it is generally very difficult to get Saudis to even discuss the situation.*
*
Examples are widely available, and seen daily by the thousands of Western technicians, specialists and trainers hired by Saudi Arabia to keep their high-tech gear operational.* For example, Saudis, and Arabs in general, don't care for the Western custom of establishing minimum standards for, say, fighter pilots. It's long been known that it is very difficult to wash out a Saudi pilot who is well connected (especially a member of the huge royal family). There are some very good Saudi pilots, but they are a minority. The rest get by. As long as they can take off and land, they can stay in a squadron. During combat exercises, especially with American squadrons, it's understood that the low overall performance of Saudi pilots is not to be discussed with the Saudis, or anyone else. Junior American officers get irked by this, but it's career suicide to disobey orders on this point. The Saudis do spend a lot of money on training and letting the pilots fly. For this reason, they are considered marginally better than other Arab air forces. But against the Iranians, who more enthusiastically accepted Western training methods, they would have problems. Iranian aircraft are older and less well equipped, but pilot quality would make up for a lot of that.

The problem extends to ground crews, who don't take responsibility seriously and have to be constantly hounded by their foreign advisors and specialists hired to make sure the aircraft are flyable. And when something goes wrong, the foreign experts are expected to take the blame. That's what the foreigners are there for.

Many Saudis are aware of the problem, especially those who have studied in the West, or spent some time there. As a result, there are some very competent Saudi doctors, scientists and bankers. But this minority knows they are up against an ancient and well entrenched culture that does not seek out innovation and excellence as it is done in the West. The more insightful Saudis seek ways to work around these problems. For example, the royal family established the National Guard in the 1930s, as a private, tribal army, that is now almost as large as the regular army and considered more dependable and effective than the regulars. That's because the National Guard troops follow traditional rules of military leadership, and have a personal relationship with the king. Only men from tribes that are known to be loyal to the Saud family may join, and they are expected to make their family and tribe proud. Saddam Hussein, and other Arab leaders, form similar forces. Saddam had his Republican Guard. Despots the world over tend to have a guard force recruited more for blood ties and loyalty, than for anything else.

The regular forces (army, navy and air force) are just government jobs, run by another government bureaucracy. There are lower standards because there are none of the family or tribal ties that demand better. Only in the West do most people give the same devotion and respect to non-family/tribal institutions.

It comes down to a different cultural attitude towards taking responsibility for your actions. It's human nature to avoid failure, or taking responsibility for a mistake. Thus we have the concept of "saving face." One reason the West has made such economic, cultural, military and social progress in the last five hundred years is because they developed a habit of holding people responsible for their actions and giving out the rewards based on achievement. In the West, this sort of thing is taken for granted, even if it is not always practiced.

But in much of the rest of the world, especially the Arab world, things are different. Most Arab countries are a patchwork of different tribes and groups, and Arab leaders survive by playing one group off against another. Loyalty is to one's group, not the nation. Most countries are dominated by a single group that is usually a minority, as in Bedouins in Jordan, Alawites in Syria, Sunnis in Iraq (formerly) and Nejdis in Saudi Arabia. All of which means that officers are assigned not by merit but by loyalty and tribal affiliation.

Arab military leaders consider it acceptable to lie to subordinates and allies in order to further their personal agenda. This had catastrophic consequences during all of the Arab-Israeli wars and continues to make peace difficult between Israelis and Palestinians. When called out on this behavior, Arabs will assert that they were "misunderstood."

American officers and NCOs are only too happy to impart their wisdom and skill to others (teaching is the ultimate expression of prestige), but Arab officers try to keep any technical information and manuals secret. To Arabs, the value and prestige of an individual is based not on what he can teach, but on what he knows that no one else knows.

While Western officers thrive on competition among themselves, Arab officers avoid this as the loser would be humiliated. Better for everyone to fail together than for competition to be allowed, even if it eventually benefits everyone.

*Western troops are taught leadership and technology; Arabs are taught only technology. Leadership is given little attention as officers are assumed to know this by virtue of their social status as officers.*

In Arab bureaucracies, initiative is considered a dangerous trait. So subordinates prefer to fail rather than make an independent decision. Battles are micromanaged by senior generals, who prefer to suffer defeat rather than lose control of their subordinates. Even worse, an Arab officer will not tell an ally why he cannot make the decision (or even that he cannot make it), leaving Western officers angry and frustrated because the Arabs won't make a decision. The Arab officers simply will not admit that they do not have that authority.
*
This lack of initiative makes it difficult for Arab armies to maintain modern weapons. Complex modern weapons require on the spot maintenance, and that means delegating authority, information, and tools. Arab armies avoid doing this and prefer to use easier to control central repair shops (which makes the timely maintenance of weapons difficult). If you can afford it, as the Saudis can, you hire lots of foreign maintenance experts to keep equipment operational. All this is taken for granted inside Saudi Arabia, but looks quite strange to Westerners who encounter it for the first time.*

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## VelocuR

500 said:


> Arabs are good fighters, dont know why so many underestimate them.


* 
Why Arabs Lose Wars*

* Most Arab countries are a patchwork of different tribes and groups, and Arab leaders survive by playing one group off against another. Loyalty is to one's group, not the nation. Most countries are dominated by a single group that is usually a minority (Bedouins in Jordan, Alawites in Syria, Sunnis in Iraq, Nejdis in Saudi Arabia). All of which means that officers are assigned not by merit but by loyalty and tribal affiliation.

* Islamic schools favor rote memorization, especially of scripture. Most Islamic scholars are hostile to the concept of interpreting the Koran (considered the word of God as given to His prophet Mohammed). This has resulted in looking down on Western troops that will look something up that they don't know. Arabs prefer to fake it, and pretend it's all in their head. Improvisation and innovation is generally discouraged. Arab armies go by the book, Western armies rewrite the book and thus usually win.

* There is no real NCO corps. Officers and enlisted troops are treated like two different social castes and there is no effort to bridge the gap using career NCOs. Enlisted personnel are treated harshly. Training accidents that would end the careers of US officers are commonplace in Arab armies, and nobody cares.

* Officers are despised by their troops, and this does not bother the officers much it all. Many Arab officers simply cannot understand how treating the troops decently will make them better soldiers.

* Paranoia prevents adequate training. Arab tyrants insist that their military units have little contact with each other, thus insuring that no general can became powerful enough to overthrow them. Units are purposely kept from working together or training on a large scale. Arab generals don't have as broad a knowledge of their armed forces as do their Western counterparts. Promotions are based more on political reliability than combat proficiency. Arab leaders prefer to be feared, rather than respected, by their soldiers. This approach leads to poorly trained armies and low morale. A few rousing speeches about "Moslem brotherhood" before a war starts does little to repair the damage.

* Arab officers often do not trust each other. While an American infantry officer can be reasonably confident that the artillery officers will conduct their bombardment on time and on target, Arab infantry officers seriously doubt that their artillery will do its job on time or on target. This is a fatal attitude in combat.

* Arab military leaders consider it acceptable to lie to subordinates and allies in order to further their personal agenda. This had catastrophic consequences during all of the Arab-Israeli wars and continues to make peace difficult between Israelis and Palestinians. When called out on this behavior, Arabs will assert that they were "misunderstood."

* While American officers and NCOs are only too happy to impart their wisdom and skill to others (teaching is the ultimate expression of prestige), Arab officers try to keep any technical information and manuals secret. To Arabs, the value and prestige of an individual is based not on what he can teach, but on what he knows that no one else knows.

* While American officers thrive on competition among themselves, Arab officers avoid this as the loser would be humiliated. Better for everyone to fail together than for competition to be allowed, even if it eventually benefits everyone.

* Americans are taught leadership and technology; Arab officers are taught only technology. Leadership is given little attention as officers are assumed to know this by virtue of their social status as officers.

* Initiative is considered a dangerous trait. So subordinates prefer to fail rather than make an independent decision. Battles are micromanaged by senior generals, who prefer to suffer defeat rather than lose control of their subordinates. Even worse, an Arab officer will not tell a US ally why he cannot make the decision (or even that he cannot make it), leaving US officers angry and frustrated because the Arabs won't make a decision. The Arab officers simply will not admit that they do not have that authority.

* Lack of initiative makes it difficult for Arab armies to maintain modern weapons. Complex modern weapons require on the spot maintenance, and that means delegating authority, information, and tools. Arab armies avoid doing this and prefer to use easier to control central repair shops. This makes the timely maintenance of weapons difficult.

* Security is maniacal. Everything even vaguely military is top secret. While US Army promotion lists are routinely published, this rarely happens in Arab armies. Officers are suddenly transferred without warning to keep them from forging alliances or networks. Any team spirit among officers is discouraged.

* All these traits were reinforced, from the 1950s to the 1990s, by Soviet advisors. To the Russians, anything military was secret, enlisted personnel were scum, there was no functional NCO system, and everyone was paranoid about everyone else. These were not "communist" traits, but Russian customs that had existed for centuries and were adopted by the communists to make their dictatorship more secure from rebellion. Arab dictators avidly accepted this kind of advice, but are still concerned about how rapidly the communist dictatorships all came tumbling down between 1989-91.

The Arab armies are paper tigers compared to Iran

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## Xestan

As I said earlier, We don't need to compare ourselves with other Muslim Nations, any logical reason? Grow up people!


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## jeypore

bilalhaider said:


> Pakistan's GDP (PPP) was $464.9 billion in 2010:
> 
> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pk.html



You still do not get it, in economic world GDP and PPP do not matter, a countries per capita income is more important......

Based on your link, this is what CIA is saying about your country:



> Textiles account for most of Pakistan's export earnings, but Pakistan's failure to expand a viable export base for other manufactures has left the country vulnerable to shifts in world demand. *Other long term challenges include expanding investment in education, healthcare, and electricity production, and reducing dependence on foreign donors.*



You need to fix these basic things in your country before touting Pakistan, Pakistan, Pakistan!!!!!! Mind you I am also Indian, so India does apply also, but there are major sectors that India has overtaken compare to the first world countries, for example Education.....


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## jeypore

pakis said:


> in the terms of defense
> these are the fact which make pakistan no1
> 
> 6 *pakistan has no 1 intelligence agency*
> 
> there are lot much but these are the.... highlights



Yes ofcourse, they have perfected the Blackmail Senario compare to any intelligent agencies in the world, but interms of real intelligence, how many spy satellites they have??????????? 

Get off your High horse of ISI.............


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## 53fd

jeypore said:


> You still do not get it, in economic world GDP and PPP do not matter, a countries per capita income is more important......



Of course per capita income is important, but it doesn't show the size of the economy. GDP (PPP) does.


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## Juice

American Pakistani said:


> But India is'nt a Muslim country, & numerous Muslims have been killed in India, Turkey is a Muslim country with 85-97%(different sources) Muslims & both President & Prime Minister Muslims too.
> 
> BTW dude, changing of flags does'nt make you Pakistani.


 
A lot of muslims have been killed in Pakistan, what is your point?


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## Juice

RaptorRX707 said:


> Pakistan Army wins Gold Medal in Cambrian Patrols from 16 countries competition.


 
Yet come in dead last in the "control your territory and keep it free of militants" competition.


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## 53fd

jeypore said:


> Now you have become an offical dumbass!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Are you educated or what?


 
The size of the economy is related to the population of the country as well, not just the GDP per capita.

GDP per capita * population = GDP

And anyways, the GDP per capita also does not demonstrate how equally (or unequally) the wealth is spread. The income inequality is determined by the GINI index. Even though Pakistan's GDP per capita is almost equal to India, Pakistan does much better than India on the GINI index.

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## Gaara

Hello everybody. I came across to this discussion while I was searching something else about Pakistani army and registered in order to comment on just this topic. 

I personally do not care about if Turkey or Pakistan or any other muslim country is the most powerful muslim country in the world. As long as Muslim countries get stronger and more democratised, I am willing to accept Turkey's to be out ouf top five or even top ten. Because if Turkey is out of top five or top ten with this power it has now, it means that other muslim countries are much stronger and constitute much wieght in space-time. I will not be uncomfortable if Pakistan or any other muslim country is more powerful than Turkey. Because I strongly believe that what we have Pakistan has, what Pakistan has we have.

Turkey is a muslim country which has a secular constitution, by the way. 

I would like to tell everybody another thing which might be off-topic to this dicussion. Pakistan has a special place in Turks' hearts. In Turkey, there are three significant political groups: Kemalists who gathered arround CHP (Republican Public Party), Nationalists who gathered arround MHP (Nationalist Movement Party) and conservative religionists who gathered arround AKP (Justice and Development Party). And they are rarely united on their ideas. There are some exceptions to this. One of the exception is Pakistan. All parties and NGOs agree on the support that needs to be given Pakistan when necessary. I sincerely hope that Pakistan will get much and much powerful in the next years.

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## Ahmad Abdullah Ravian

Veeru said:


> Turkey is a secular state with no official state religion; the Turkish Constitution provides for freedom of religion and conscience.


 
But Its main Governing and Ruling Body is Muslim,so it is a Muslim state ,No matter what you think


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## Ahmad Abdullah Ravian

Bail_Gadi_Driver said:


> India has 2nd most Muslims in word, why you didn't included India in your List ....when you can include Turkey which a secular state...you should edit and Put our Neighbor's name too....
> 
> But then India will be Rank 1...isn't it ...???


India Can't be ranked as a Muslim country , no doubt they are very large in no in india but they got not that power and capability, In Indian Governing body they have not much separate Impact in the Muslim World


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Rezavan said:


> GDP is a bad indicator of the wealth of the nation because most of time it is subject to the nation's population. Indonesia might have a 1 trillion+ economy but most of it's citizens are poor as heck.


 
same with India


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## Galaxy

Juice said:


> A lot of muslims have been killed in Pakistan, what is your point?


 
His point is Simple. Make a List according to own comfort with idiotic points and not with actual facts.


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## jeypore

> bilalhaider
> The size of the economy is related to the population of the country as well, not just the GDP per capita.
> 
> GDP per capita * population = GDP



This is excatly why I like to call you dumbass!!!!!!! The formula for GDP is:

GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports &#8722; imports)



> And anyways, the GDP per capita also does not demonstrate how equally (or unequally) the wealth is spread. *The income inequality is determined by the GINI index.* Even though Pakistan's GDP per capita is almost equal to India, Pakistan does much better than India on the GINI index.



I love your socialist Indicators, Well wake up and smell the coffee kiddo,,, the world does not excatly work on these Indicators, be more realistic and read further.. and also take your friend RaptorRX707 on your further education endeavor also.....

Thanks.....


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## 53fd

jeypore said:


> This is excatly why I like to call you dumbass!!!!!!! The formula for GDP is:
> 
> GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports &#8722; imports)
> 
> 
> 
> I love your socialist Indicators, Well wake up and smell the coffee kiddo,,, the world does not excatly work on these Indicators, be more realistic and read further..
> 
> Thanks.....


 
Do you know what GDP per capita even means?


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## Gandhi G in da house

bilalhaider said:


> The size of the economy is related to the population of the country as well, not just the GDP per capita.
> 
> GDP per capita * population = GDP
> 
> And anyways, the GDP per capita also does not demonstrate how equally (or unequally) the wealth is spread. The income inequality is determined by the GINI index. Even though Pakistan's GDP per capita is almost equal to India, Pakistan does much better than India on the GINI index.


 
pakistan gdp per capita is much lower than india now and we dont have the latest GINI figures. The figures we have are from 2004 . That is very old .Plus pakistan has more poverty than india today and it is increasing .check the latest world bank reports .post kar kar ke thak gaya .


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## AyanRay

American Pakistani said:


> But India is'nt a Muslim country, & *numerous Muslims have been killed in India*, Turkey is a Muslim country with 85-97%(different sources) Muslims & both President & Prime Minister Muslims too.
> 
> BTW dude, changing of flags does'nt make you Pakistani.


 So according to ur standards Pakistan also should not be at that list because erveryday Muslims are being killed like insects in Pakistan.! India almost got a membership in the organisation of Muslim countries. All other nations, except Pakistan agreed to India's membership. Pakistan also thretened to dismember itself if India is allowed membership. India has always been invited as a guest in OIC meets.


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## AyanRay

Ahmad Abdullah Ravian said:


> But Its main Governing and Ruling Body is Muslim,so it is a Muslim state ,No matter what you think


India's past President was a muslim and the present Prime minister is a sikh.So.....................


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## 53fd

nick_indian said:


> pakistan gdp per capita is much lower than india now and we dont have the latest GINI figures. The figures we have are from 2004 . That is very old .Plus pakistan has more poverty than india today and it is increasing .check the latest world bank reports .post kar kar ke thak gaya .


 
What is much lower? India has more poverty than Pakistan today (recent figures from 2011):












http://www.ophi.org.uk//wp-content/uploads/Worldmap/Web/StatPlanet.htm

The MPI is a UNDP study btw.

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## Al Bhatti

A person should not compare himself to a person who is not as powerful as him instead compare himself with the person who is more powerful than him.

When will we stop saying that we are powerful and we are training the army of the Muslim countries.

Okay, it may be true to some extent that we may be training armies of some Muslim countries but what are we at home?

We cannot even protect the civilians at home.

We cannot even fight for the rights of poor Pakistanis overseas who work form day till night.

If our military is so capable why not the police and other security services in Pakistan learn some discipline from them? We export our military expertise (that is what we read in Pakistani forums) to other countries, but where is that expertise when form Pakistan?

If we are so great why are Pakistanis killed daily.

When will we stop dreaming that we are the top Muslim country and start to face the bitter hard facts on the ground and start rectifying them and show the world that we are something? When will that happen and others will give positive statements for our country without us telling that we are a strong Muslim country.

Even if we are no. 10 in the top 10 most powerful Muslim country, where is the Islam in Pakistan?


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## dulcet

Salam Alaykum,

Well muslim brothers, i think this info will help : search on google : globalfirepower


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

All paper champs , a guy with shoe in hand who throws it at Bush is more powerful then all paper champs
Because he who throws the shoe knows what a joy he feels against expressing his desire freely with out any restriction.

Paper champs are paper champs


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## Imran Khan

we are not in any race 56 Muslims are powerful and we are last as 57th stronger muslim nation .and we are happy in this place .


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## Peregrine

Why are we discussing the obvious? It's quite clear, that Pakistan is the champion of the Muslim world. End of story


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## B@KH

Pakistan infact is the most powerful Islamic Country but unfortunately it got into trouble due to saudi. Still it can recover fast provided it preserve its independence and sovereignity.

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## Imran Khan

B@KH said:


> Pakistan infact is the most powerful Islamic Country but unfortunately it got into trouble due to saudi. Still it can recover fast provided it preserve its independence and sovereignity.


 
B@KH BRO EVERY POST FOR SAUDI WHATS WRONG DEAR?


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## Al Bhatti

Imran Khan said:


> B@KH BRO EVERY POST FOR SAUDI WHATS WRONG DEAR?


 
B@kh has got Saudiphobia


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## fatman17

ahsanraza81 said:


> There are more than 57 Muslim countries in the whole world but Today I will be discussing about the 5 most Powerful Muslim countries. The basic Problem most of these countries is that they are having Bad and Corrupt Governments that works for Interest of foreign forces like America instead of Working for benefits of Muslims. Lets discuss about 5 Most Powerful Muslim countries.
> 
> *1 Pakistan:* Pakistan is the most Powerful Muslim country in the whole world. It is the only Muslim Nuclear power and having a Large army of 7 Lakh. Its total population is 180 Million. The basic problem of Pakistan is bad leadership. Always bad Government are imposed on Pakistan that works against the national interest of Pakistan. Pakistan also have many enemies that have always tried to Destabilize it like India, US and Israel.
> 
> *2 Turkey:* Turkey is the second most Powerful Muslim country of the world. Its also have a large army with weapon of latest technology. Turkey is half in Asia and half in Europe. Its total population is 73,914,260.
> 
> *3 Iran: *Iran is the third most Powerful Muslim country. Iran has Shia Majority and its Government is Islamic. Iran is also trying to make Nuclear weapons but not yet succeeded In it . Iran has big wealth of Oil. Its total population is 71,956,322.
> 
> *4 Saudi Arabia:* Saudi Arabia is the Fourth most Powerful Muslim country in the world. Most important religious places for Muslims Makkah and Madina are in Saudi Arabia due to which it has great importance in Muslim world. Saudi Arabia also have big wealth of Oil which it exports to other countries. Royal system of Government exists in Saudi Arabia. Its Government is also pro American. Saudi Arabia has also raised some Military power in last few decades with help of Pakistan and other countries. Its Population is 24,645,686.
> 
> *5 Malaysia:* Malaysia is fifth most powerful Muslim country in the world. Malaysia has done massive progress in last few years and it is considered one of the most developed countries in the world. It don,t have any enemy due to which its not built much Military power. Its population is 26,992,577.
> 
> These are five most powerful Muslim countries. Lets pray that May Allah Swt give Hidaya to their Governments and they start working for benefits of Muslim Umah instead of for enemies of Muslims.



what is your criteria for poweful?

is it economic?
is it military/nuclear?
is it exports/imports?
is it resources?
is it influence?
is it education?
is it harmony in the country?

if you used the above, pakistan stands out in only military/nuclear. on others it would rate low.

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## IND151

wrong list based on false criteria.

in my opinion most powerful Muslim nation is turkey.

they have good economy, decent infra and advanced army.

plus turkey is secular and member of NATO.


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## Splurgenxs

^^^ True that. Turkey no 1 ...as it has the most clout of all Muslim countries.
Pakistanis need to stop infatuating themselves.


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## desiman

what a joke, Pakistan #1 ya right.


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## 53fd

In terms of economy, Pakistan is the 4th strongest Muslim country in the world. In terms of 'strongest' Muslim countries by GDP (PPP), this is what you get (2010 estimates):

1. Turkey: $931 billion
2. Iran: $860 billion
3. Saudi Arabia: $600 billion
4. Pakistan: $464 billion
5. Egypt: $453 billion
6. Malaysia: $398 billion
7. Bangladesh: $229 billion
8. UAE: $187 billion

In military terms, Pakistan has one of the strongest Army, Air Force & Navy in the whole Muslim world as well. Pakistan is also the only Muslim country that is a nuclear power.

In terms of religious demographics, Pakistan has the 2nd largest Muslim population in the world (after Indonesia), & it also has the second highest Shia population in the world after Iran.

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## praful

I don't think pakistan is the strongest in military terms either, US has showed regularly what they are and look at their territory also hold by Taliban and balouchis. 

I think Iran deserves the honor of being the strongest muslim country in every sense. They have excellent universities and a great force who doesn't frightened by nuclear powered countries.


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## Rao Sahab

praful said:


> I don't think pakistan is the strongest in military terms either, US has showed regularly what they are and look at their territory also hold by Taliban and balouchis.
> 
> I think Iran deserves the honor of being the strongest muslim country in every sense. They have excellent universities and a great force who doesn't frightened by nuclear powered countries.


 
first balochis is pakistanis and second taliban headquarters is wipe out by pakistan army


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## blooboy

My list:
1.Turkey (overall)
2.Pakistan (Militarily)
3.Saudi
4.Iran
5.Egypt, Malaysia


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## bubble123

ummm i dont think so that my country comes in top 5 muslim economies

i typed in google and results are

Turkey
Indonesia
Saudi Arabia
Iran
UAE


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## Xracer

This thread is about Power and power means powerfull. in muslim countries yes it is Pakistan because it has a powerfull army And Brave Peoples.
Power is not about Development.
People and Army is the true power of a country if i look at that we are no1 most powerfull nation in tha World

Am I right or not a question to My Pakistani Brothers


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## PakShah

For education wise, Quaid-i-Azam University came in first place when compared to all other universities in other Muslim countries and members of the OIC.
Quaid-i-Azam University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also read this report, and look up Quad-i-Azam University:
http://www.sesric.org/files/article/232.pdf

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## PakShah

For education wise, Quaid-i-Azam University came in first place when compared to all other universities in other Muslim countries and members of the OIC.
Quaid-i-Azam University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also read this report, and look up Quad-i-Azam University:
http://www.sesric.org/files/article/232.pdf


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## fd24

Sadly in the kingdom of the blind the one eyed is king. Most muslim countries today are weak whether you look at military prowess or economic development etc. Its probably not correct and or fair to make this sort of list. Potentially Pakistan is there at number 1. It has a relativley large population. It has raw resources. It is on the way to having a manufacturing base. Because of the threats faced and sanctions imposed by the likes of america its population have proved to be resiliant. Pakistani leadership has been found to be wanting and let down the people of pakistan. 

However no other muslim country other than Pakistan produces its own (albeit jvs on the whole) tanks, jets, missiles incl cruise missiles nukes etc and has a large standing army it is not unreasonable to suggest that it is one of the most powereful military muslim countries. I am aware that these weapons may not be cutting edge but then at least Pakistan is on its way and is a relativly young nation.

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## Imran Khan

desiman said:


> what a joke, Pakistan #1 ya right.


 
is main joke kya hai ? pakistan is nuclear weapons state missile state make and assemble jets make and re.made tanks subs frigates and toooooooooooooooooo much . problem is only in political top other wise dhoti was wet in 28 may 1999. if you remember.

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## Imran Khan

santro my dear sir you delete mautkimout post i was ready to slap his face .


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## mautkimaut

Imran Khan said:


> santro my dear sir you delete mautkimout post i was ready to slap his face .


 
Point taken and I apologize if it was hurtful

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## Imran Khan

mautkimaut said:


> Point taken and I apologize if it was hurtful


 
mery bhai it was really a big slap . why you forget members here which are friends of humans like me? why you hate us so much?before you submit reply think abut me and others faces like me. we don't hate you but hate comments like you wrote.


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## aviator

Imran Khan said:


> is main joke kya hai ? pakistan is nuclear weapons state missile state make and assemble jets make and re.made tanks subs frigates and toooooooooooooooooo much . problem is only in political top other wise dhoti was wet in 28 may 1999. if you remember.


 
Pakistan has worked a lot harder to have a strong army and air force but the problem with pakistan is it does not has economy to fight a full scale war.


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## Pirupiru

RezRoll said:


> Indonesia is better than any country in the sub-continent (India might a valid debate about that though). Indonesia has a very big economy under it's arm and they're moving in the right direction. That I agree.
> 
> But that aside, saying Indonesia is an economy powerhouse is no way true, half of the nation is poor, inflation is ridiculous, corruption is everywhere and half of them come to Malaysia to find low-end jobs. The country still has a very long way to go even if compared to Malaysia.



WOW! Your post is totally biased! Full of lies!  (no wonder since you're malaysian)
According to UN standard of poverty level for a lower middle income country like Indonesia, its considered poor if the population living below $1.25/day. And in 2009, its only 18.7% of Indonesia's population who live below the standard. And I believe that the number of the poverty has decreased in 2012 

Inflation is ridiculous? Where did you get your data? Wake up! It's 2012 now, not 1998 anymore! 

*Indonesia's inflation for the last 3 years* :
2009 = 2,78%
2010 = 6.9%
2011 = 3,7%

2012 = *<4%

Half of us come to Malaysia? Did you mean nearly 130 million Indonesian come to your country? Are you serious? Please dont spread lies here, there are only 1 million or less than 0,5% who come there, and most of them are uneducated, poor, those who cant deal with tight competition here in Indonesia. And the good news is, for years, the numbers gradually decreased 

International Human Development Indicators - UNDP

I believe most of Indonesian people doesn't interested to become the strongest, the most powerful, the richest country in the world, we just want to live in a prosperous and stable nation

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## Nusantara

RezRoll said:


> Indonesia is better than any country in the sub-continent (India might a valid debate about that though). Indonesia has a very big economy under it's arm and they're moving in the right direction. That I agree.
> 
> But that aside, saying Indonesia is an economy powerhouse is no way true, *half of the nation is poor*, *inflation is ridiculous*, corruption is everywhere and *half of them come to Malaysia to find low-end jobs*. The country still has a very long way to go even if compared to Malaysia.
> 
> Singapore's GDP is only $182.23 Billion but out of every 10 people there, one person is a millionaire.
> 
> Like i said, using GDP to assess a country's well being is very flawed.


^^
now, you all know how malaysian view toward indonesian


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## Uzair2118

nForce said:


> Turkey and Malaysia are not Muslim countries.


 HAHAHAHAHHAA Turkey is not a muslim country he says


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## nForce

Uzair2118 said:


> HAHAHAHAHHAA Turkey is not a muslim country he says



According to the Constituion of Turkey, the Article 2 very clearly states, "The Republic of Turkey is a democratic, secular and social state governed by the rule of law; bearing in mind the concepts of public peace, national solidarity and justice; respecting human rights; loyal to the nationalism of Atatürk, and based on the fundamental tenets set forth in the Preamble."

Now off you go, back to school.Have some proper education this time.

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## rockstar08

for those who are saying pak cant be number 1 , they should recheck their MRI's either they have brains or not ..
Pak is nuclear power state and that is enough to prove our superiority over any muslim state ..
plus we have strong air force , army and decent navy ...
comparing turkey and iran with Pakistan is not right ,
turkey has access to all Eu and American tech without any issues , but Pakistan always got sanctions ...and no need to mentioned wars and bad political problems ..
iran has oil , enough said ...

Saudi , UAE and others are not as strong as Pak, we are always under international pressure with different reasons , but still we manage to maintain our Armed forces


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## dawn_news

nForce said:


> According to the Constituion of Turkey, the Article 2 very clearly states, "The Republic of Turkey is a democratic, secular and social state governed by the rule of law; bearing in mind the concepts of public peace, national solidarity and justice; respecting human rights; loyal to the nationalism of Atatürk, and based on the fundamental tenets set forth in the Preamble."
> 
> Now off you go, back to school.Have some proper education this time.



Just like bharat is hindu country, Turkey is also muslim.


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## Mugwop

Strange list


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## NP-complete

There are powerful countries and then there are powerful nations. Pakistan is decently powerful among muslim countries but Turkey, Iran, Indonesia and Egypt are more powerful nations than Pakistan.

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## jarves

Turkey is the clear winner.Turkey has a very big economy and very strong air force and navy.Turkey also has the nuclear bombs(NATO).
Also i think we should also comapare R&D base and Manufacturing base of all the countries,that we will give us a more clearer picture.


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## NP-complete

jarves said:


> Turkey is the clear winner.Turkey has a very big economy and very strong air force and navy.Turkey also has the nuclear bombs(NATO).
> Also i think we should also comapare R&D base and Manufacturing base of all the countries,that we will give us a more clearer picture.


Yes Turkey is the most powerful muslim country. Its has been a traditional political and military power as well in the form of Ottomans and that counts a lot.


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## Uzair2118

nForce said:


> According to the Constituion of Turkey, the Article 2 very clearly states, "The Republic of Turkey is a democratic, secular and social state governed by the rule of law; bearing in mind the concepts of public peace, national solidarity and justice; respecting human rights; loyal to the nationalism of Atatürk, and based on the fundamental tenets set forth in the Preamble."
> 
> Now off you go, back to school.Have some proper education this time.


 
Bhai a country that has a population of 95% muslims is a muslim country of you go now


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## nForce

Uzair2118 said:


> Bhai a country that has a population of 95% muslims is a muslim country of you go now



By your logic the word secular shouldn't exist in any dictionary in the World, but it does, isn't it ?


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## Uzair2118

By my logic india shouldn't exist but hey the dictionary cant be wrong


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## KingMamba

nForce said:


> According to the Constituion of Turkey, the Article 2 very clearly states, "The Republic of Turkey is a democratic, secular and social state governed by the rule of law; bearing in mind the concepts of public peace, national solidarity and justice; respecting human rights; loyal to the nationalism of Atatürk, and based on the fundamental tenets set forth in the Preamble."
> 
> Now off you go, back to school.Have some proper education this time.



Being secular does not mean non-Muslim it just means religion is not in government LOL.


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## B+ Dracula

**ONE BOUNCER**
If Muslim Population is the Criterion then INDIA is most powerful nation of Islamic World.....atleast 25 Crore Muslims
equivalent to Indonesia


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## Alfa-Fighter

anyway , is the muslim country powerful ?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

We aint powerful.. we are a poor country.. il consider our country powerful when we have a trillion dollar economy..

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## farhan_9909

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> We aint powerful.. we are a poor country.. il consider our country powerful when we have a trillion dollar economy..



Actually you do have a Trillion dollars GDP in PPP considering the most recent data out of World bank,Which also confirms india surpassing Japan in GDP PPP


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## thasti_phasti

farhan_9909 said:


> Actually you do have a Trillion dollars GDP in PPP considering the most recent data out of World bank,Which also confirms india surpassing Japan in GDP PPP



Trillion $ in nominal, exports $150 billion, gigantic dams like bunji, basha and dasu build, tax to gdo ratio 14-15% at least. If Pakistan can archive this by 2025 then it shall be considered powerfull. Mind you all the things listed Pak goverment targets by 2025, lets see if they can do it.

Right now goverment is poor and begging, low taxes, energy shortage, expensive being generated etc

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## Gandhi G in da house

1.Turkey
2.Saudi Arabia
3.Iran
4.Pakistan
5. Indonesia/Malaysia/Egypt


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## DESERT FIGHTER

nick_indian said:


> 1.Turkey
> 2.Saudi Arabia
> 3.Iran
> 4.Pakistan
> 5. Indonesia/Malaysia/Egypt



LOL.. Even below niger..


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## Gandhi G in da house

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> LOL.. Even below niger..



Hain ?


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## nForce

Uzair2118 said:


> By my logic india shouldn't exist but hey the dictionary cant be wrong




ehh??that was you trying to say something intelligent?


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## islamrules

Veni said:


> We are muslim but secular



lol seriously dude, don't u die thinking that !!!


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## waz

Oh look another one of those list threads......


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## nForce

KingMamba said:


> Being secular does not mean non-Muslim it just means religion is not in government LOL.



as I said, Turkey identifies herself as a secular country and not a muslim country.I can't really help if you think you know better than what their constitution says.


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## KingMamba

nForce said:


> as I said, Turkey identifies herself as a secular country and not a muslim country.I can't really help if you think you know better than what their constitution says.



No Turkey is a Muslim country with secular laws. If it wasn't a Muslim country they would not part of the OIC. An organization that states that it is *"the collective voice of the Muslim world" and works to "safeguard and protect the interests of the Muslim world in the spirit of promoting international peace and harmony".*

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## nForce

KingMamba said:


> No Turkey is a Muslim country with secular laws. If it wasn't a Muslim country they would not part of the OIC. An organization that states that it is *"the collective voice of the Muslim world" and works to "safeguard and protect the interests of the Muslim world in the spirit of promoting international peace and harmony".*


Is that how the segregation between a muslim and a non-muslim country is done, by their affiliation to OIC ? Do you know that candidature of India in OIC is supported by many countries including Saudi Arabia ? Do you know that Russia is an observer state in OIC ?


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## farhan_9909

Turkey does identify itself as a Muslim country though not Islamic like Pakistan,iran etc


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## KingMamba

nForce said:


> Is that how the segregation between a muslim and a non-muslim country is done, by their affiliation to OIC ? Do you know that candidature of India in OIC is supported by many countries including Saudi Arabia ? Do you know that Russia is an observer state in OIC ?



India wanted to join as an observer not member and Pakistan blocked India, India cannot join as a full member nor did it ever intend to LOL. Russia joined as an Observer because it has a large Muslim minority just like India. The only exception I know of is Guyana but idk why they were given full member status.

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## Targon

Turkey is officially secular and does not identifies itself with any religion, but when its comes to practise its not fully secular, for example we have an official religious affairs organization, we have a compulsory religion&moral lesson at schools(but nobody takes seriously)

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## The SC

ahsanraza81 said:


> There are more than 57 Muslim countries in the whole world but Today I will be discussing about the 5 most Powerful Muslim countries. The basic Problem most of these countries is that they are having Bad and Corrupt Governments that works for Interest of foreign forces like America instead of Working for benefits of Muslims. Lets discuss about 5 Most Powerful Muslim countries.
> 
> *1 Pakistan:* Pakistan is the most Powerful Muslim country in the whole world. It is the only Muslim Nuclear power and having a Large army of 7 Lakh. Its total population is 180 Million. The basic problem of Pakistan is bad leadership. Always bad Government are imposed on Pakistan that works against the national interest of Pakistan. Pakistan also have many enemies that have always tried to Destabilize it like India, US and Israel.
> 
> *2 Turkey:* Turkey is the second most Powerful Muslim country of the world. Its also have a large army with weapon of latest technology. Turkey is half in Asia and half in Europe. Its total population is 73,914,260.
> 
> *3 Iran: *Iran is the third most Powerful Muslim country. Iran has Shia Majority and its Government is Islamic. Iran is also trying to make Nuclear weapons but not yet succeeded In it . Iran has big wealth of Oil. Its total population is 71,956,322.
> 
> *4 Saudi Arabia:* Saudi Arabia is the Fourth most Powerful Muslim country in the world. Most important religious places for Muslims Makkah and Madina are in Saudi Arabia due to which it has great importance in Muslim world. Saudi Arabia also have big wealth of Oil which it exports to other countries. Royal system of Government exists in Saudi Arabia. Its Government is also pro American. Saudi Arabia has also raised some Military power in last few decades with help of Pakistan and other countries. Its Population is 24,645,686.
> 
> *5 Malaysia:* Malaysia is fifth most powerful Muslim country in the world. Malaysia has done massive progress in last few years and it is considered one of the most developed countries in the world. It don,t have any enemy due to which its not built much Military power. Its population is 26,992,577.
> 
> These are five most powerful Muslim countries. Lets pray that May Allah Swt give Hidaya to their Governments and they start working for benefits of Muslim Umah instead of for enemies of Muslims.



Number 3 is not true, If Iran wanted nuclear weapons it would have made them long time ago.

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## KingMamba

Targon said:


> Turkey is officially secular and does not identifies itself with any religion, but when its comes to practise its not fully secular, for example we have an official religious affairs organization, we have a compulsory religion&moral lesson at schools(but nobody takes seriously)



Turkey is secular in name but exerts religious control in actuality, real secular countries do not touch religion at all but Turkey licenses Imams and such.


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## Targon

KingMamba said:


> Turkey is secular in name but religious control in nature, real secular does not touch religion at all but Turkey licenses Imams and such.



They wanted to put religion under control as it was ready to be easily manipulated.


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## nForce

KingMamba said:


> India wanted to join as an observer not member and Pakistan blocked India, India cannot join as a full member nor did it ever intend to LOL. Russia joined as an Observer because it has a large Muslim minority just like India. The only exception I know of is Guyana but idk why they were given full member status.



doesnt answer my question.is being a member of OIC the criterion?


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## Falcon29

Turkey
Pakistan
Iran
Egypt 
Indonesia
Saudi Arabia
Algeria

^^^^

Most powerful Muslim nations.


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## KingMamba

nForce said:


> doesnt answer my question.is being a member of OIC the criterion?



No having Muslim majority is but a state wouldn't want to join OIC if they didn't consider themselves a "Muslim Nation".


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## The SC

KingMamba said:


> India wanted to join as an observer not member and Pakistan blocked India, India cannot join as a full member nor did it ever intend to LOL. Russia joined as an Observer because it has a large Muslim minority just like India. The only exception I know of is Guyana but idk why they were given full member status.


Indus do not like Islam, and want to be observers in the OIC, the organization of Islamic countries, Israel also can "want" to be an observer, so they won't need to hide behind India.
Are you jocking or what?


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## KingMamba

The SC said:


> Indus do not like Islam, and want to be observers in the OIC, the organization of Islamic countries, Israel also can "want" to be an observer, so they won't need to hide behind India.
> Are you jocking or what?



I don't understand the point you are trying to make, wtf is an Indus? You mean the river?


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## nForce

KingMamba said:


> No having Muslim majority is but a state wouldn't want to join OIC if they didn't consider themselves a "Muslim Nation".



Thats the point, in spite of having a muslim majority, the Turkish constitution declares the nation to be a secular nation.Do I have to quote it again for you ?


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## KingMamba

nForce said:


> Thats the point, in spite of having a muslim majority, the Turkish constitution declares the nation to be a secular nation.Do I have to quote it again for you ?



OK maybe we do not have the same definition of secular in mind, what does secular mean in your mind pray tell me?



Targon said:


> They wanted to put religion under control as it was ready to be easily manipulated.



You cannot have it both ways either you are secular or you are not.


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## The SC

KingMamba said:


> I don't understand the point you are trying to make, wtf is an Indus? You mean the river?


Hindu in plural Hindus, add hindouva now, the va from Israel.
If you ask me personally, I find most Hindous nice, but with an agenda, if they knew you are a Muslim. Maybe due to the "bad" experiences with Muslim invasions in the past. Although I do not call them invasions, since the Muslims only responded to threats in every "invasion" depicted by western media. They used to ask other people to join them and evaluate their responses starting with other Arabs first in the beginning of Islam. It happened with the Romans, the Persians, the Europeans and with India, since they did not accept a message of peace and were rather arrogant by ignorance, they mobilized and sent huge armies to fight the Muslims who had no intention of war in the first place, but were hoping of peace for all and wishing others will join them in this peaceful frame of mind. To the Muslim's surprise most of the time, the answers stemmed from ignorance and bad faith, and the message of peace was interpreted as a threat by ignorant and violent populace, who were like the Arabs themselves before the coming of Islam, just warring amongst themselves and against anything else.
So Islam was intended as an evolution in thought and deed for animal like humans living by the laws of the jungle up till now.

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## nForce

KingMamba said:


> OK maybe we do not have the same definition of secular in mind, what does secular mean in your mind pray tell me?



Not specifically related to any religion..


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## KingMamba

nForce said:


> Not specifically related to any religion..



OK if that is your definition and Turks agree with it then I agree as well they are not a Muslim nation. So then it is between Pakistan and Iran for 1-2 spot.



The SC said:


> Hindou in plural hindous, add hindouva now, the va from Israel.



Lol yeah India wanted to join OIC as an observer what is your point? Israel doesn't even have relations with half of the OIC let alone ask for any type of official status.


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## Targon

KingMamba said:


> OK maybe we do not have the same definition of secular in mind, what does secular mean in your mind pray tell me?
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot have it both ways either you are secular or you are not.



Dunno its seems to be working  as long its not effects my daily life , justice system and overally how government works, I have no problem with government controlling the religious authority, presidency of religious affairs has no authority to interfere in anything. Only thing I disagreee is compulsory religious lessons, which is not so much important since as I said they're not taken seriously.

I know its not fully secular but I think its fair enough for us.

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## KingMamba

Targon said:


> Dunno its seems to be working  as long its not effects my daily life , justice system and overally how government works, I have no problem with government controlling the religious authority, presidency of religious affairs has no authority to interfere in anything. Only thing I disagreee is compulsory religious lessons, which is not so much important since as I said they're not taken seriously.
> 
> I know its not fully secular but I think its fair enough for us.



Ok so I ask you do you consider yourself a Muslim country despite being secular government yes or no?


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## Targon

KingMamba said:


> Ok so I ask you do you consider yourself a Muslim country despite being secular government yes or no?



Depends on how its asked, if its unofficial then yes we could say its a Muslim country, as majority is Muslim.


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## atatwolf

rockstar08 said:


> for those who are saying pak cant be number 1 , they should recheck their MRI's either they have brains or not ..
> Pak is nuclear power state and that is enough to prove our superiority over any muslim state ..
> plus we have strong air force , army and decent navy ...
> comparing turkey and iran with Pakistan is not right ,
> turkey has access to all Eu and American tech without any issues , but Pakistan always got sanctions ...and no need to mentioned wars and bad political problems ..
> iran has oil , enough said ...
> 
> Saudi , UAE and others are not as strong as Pak, we are always under international pressure with different reasons , but still we manage to maintain our Armed forces


Turkey also has nukes. Plus Turkey has better land, air and navy than Pakistan. We never have been conquered, we are one of the few people on earth that never been conquered which Pakistan can't say.

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## rockstar08

atatwolf said:


> Turkey also has nukes. Plus Turkey has better land, air and navy than Pakistan. We never have been conquered, we are one of the few people on earth that never been conquered which Pakistan can't say.



sir jee stop living in past ? right now your country is begging to be a part of Europe ( no offense ) .... and what are you talking about ?? since when turkey got nukes ?? if you are talking about NATO or US bombs stationed in turkey than " NO COMMENTS "

I accept that your navy and air force stronger than us , but we are more experienced forces , plus the nukes give us a little edge over you ...
but I still love turkey as a nation and a very trusty friend of PAKISTAN ...

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## Falcon29

atatwolf said:


> Turkey also has nukes. Plus Turkey has better land, air and navy than Pakistan. We never have been conquered, we are one of the few people on earth that never been conquered which Pakistan can't say.



Turkey doesn't independently have nukes, it's because of their geographical placement that they are very important if WW3 erupts, without Turkey the West would lose that war. Although Turkey is still the most powerful Muslim nation in my opinion.

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## KingMamba

atatwolf said:


> Turkey also has nukes. Plus Turkey has better land, air and navy than Pakistan. We never have been conquered, we are one of the few people on earth that never been conquered which Pakistan can't say.



Pakistan never been conquered either Pakistan wasn't even around 70 years ago.  Unless you are talking about the region in which case Anatolia has switched hands many times although Turkish Republic has never.

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## atatwolf

Hazzy997 said:


> Turkey doesn't independently have nukes, it's because of their geographical placement that they are very important if WW3 erupts, without Turkey the West would lose that war. Although Turkey is still the most powerful Muslim nation in my opinion.


That doesn't change we have nukes, but even if you take away the nukes. Turkey has the edge on land, air and sea. No discussion possible!!!



KingMamba said:


> Pakistan never been conquered either Pakistan wasn't even around 70 years ago.  Unless you are talking about the region in which case Anatolia has switched hands many times although Turkish Republic has never.


I'm talking about the people. We Turks moved a lot but as people we were never conquered. You can't say that.



rockstar08 said:


> sir jee stop living in past ? right now your country is begging to be a part of Europe ( no offense ) .... and what are you talking about ?? since when turkey got nukes ?? if you are talking about NATO or US bombs stationed in turkey than " NO COMMENTS "
> 
> I accept that your navy and air force stronger than us , but we are more experienced forces , plus the nukes give us a little edge over you ...
> but I still love turkey as a nation and a very trusty friend of PAKISTAN ...



Begging?


----------



## The SC

KingMamba said:


> OK if that is your definition and Turks agree with it then I agree as well they are not a Muslim nation. So then it is between Pakistan and Iran for 1-2 spot.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol yeah India wanted to join OIC as an observer what is your point? Israel doesn't even have relations with half of the OIC let alone ask for any type of official status.


India has close intelligence ties with Israel, that is an enough threat for muslims not to accept it in the OIC.

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## Falcon29

atatwolf said:


> Turkey also has nukes. Plus Turkey has better land, air and navy than Pakistan. We never have been conquered, we are one of the few people on earth that never been conquered which Pakistan can't say.



Why are you saying this about Pakistan? Pakistan and Turkey should have good relations and join missile programs. Pakistan has advanced missile technology especially their tactical missiles which have absurd speed. I believe they're the 'Nasr' Missiles, I as a Muslim am proud of Pakistan. We all should cooperate, especially Indonesia as a growing power.



atatwolf said:


> That doesn't change we have nukes, but even if you take away the nukes. Turkey has the edge on land, air and sea. No discussion possible!!!



Yeah I believe that too, Turkey is ahead in those areas but not by significantly in the air region. Which is why I said I still believe they're the strongest Muslim nation. We shouldn't be comparing our nations like little children. They both have their weaknesses and advantages due to the nature of their interests and what suits them the best for their nations.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Hazzy997 said:


> Why are you saying this about Pakistan? Pakistan and Turkey should have good relations and join missile programs. Pakistan has advanced missile technology especially their tactical missiles which have absurd speed. I believe they're the 'Nasr' Missiles, I as a Muslim am proud of Pakistan. We all should cooperate, especially Indonesia as a growing power.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I believe that too, Turkey is ahead in those areas but not by significantly in the air region. Which is why I said I still believe they're the strongest Muslim nation. We shouldn't be comparing our nations like little children. They both have their weaknesses and advantages due to the nature of their interests and what suits them the best for their nations.



None "Conquered" us ! So called turkics were themselves a mixture .. adopted Pakhtun culture and identity and ruled from delhi ...  not our land..

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## KingMamba

atatwolf said:


> I'm talking about the people. We Turks moved a lot but as people we were never conquered. You can't say that.



First your people say you are not a Muslim country but secular so keep that in mind, second you have to stick around in one place to be conquered. So saying you have never been conquered is accurate but has no value considering the history of your people.

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## atatwolf

Hazzy997 said:


> Why are you saying this about Pakistan? Pakistan and Turkey should have good relations and join missile programs. Pakistan has advanced missile technology especially their tactical missiles which have absurd speed. I believe they're the 'Nasr' Missiles, I as a Muslim am proud of Pakistan. We all should cooperate, especially Indonesia as a growing power.


Maybe I shouldn't have responded him. He is downtalking Turkey because it is part of NATO. Turkey is building a lot of military equipment themselves. It is not comparable imho.



KingMamba said:


> First your people say you are not a Muslim country but secular so keep that in mind, second you have to stick around in one place to be conquered. So saying you have never been conquered is accurate but has no value considering the history of your people.



We sticked at one place and moved to others. Turkic peoples stayed in Central Asia. Turkish people moved and conquered.

The point is, there are predators and there are prey. We are the predator. The predator doesn't stay at one place.

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## KingMamba

The SC said:


> India has close intelligence ties with Israel, that is an enough threat for muslims not to accept it in the OIC.



I agree which is why India was banned.


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## The SC

Hazzy997 said:


> Turkey doesn't independently have nukes, it's because of their geographical placement that they are very important if WW3 erupts, without Turkey the West would lose that war. Although Turkey is still the most powerful Muslim nation in my opinion.


Turkey should, by all means, play sick if WW3 errupts in Europe, since it is considered the first line for NATO, but can not join the EU, because - in my own opinion - it is a muslim nation , secular or not, christian nations forming the EU do not give a dam about it, even Roumania and poland for example with very ailing economies could join, but not Turkey even with a good economy.
Turkey should not play in their hands by all means, it has obligations under NATO, so it should send some symbolic troops to the area of war and not let fools use it, its people and its territory as a shield for them and their cowardness.


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## Falcon29

atatwolf said:


> Maybe I shouldn't have responded him. He is downtalking Turkey because it is part of NATO. Turkey is building a lot of military equipment themselves. It is not comparable imho.



Okay I see, that's not right. Turkey is a member of NATO although they've got a developing and large military industry. They can support themselves in a war even if they were cut off from all nations, Turkey can produce it's own weapons if it had more funding. Turkey has it's own electronics on fighter jets, their own drones, radars, tanks, anti-tank weapons, helicopters...etc...

They could do more if they wanted as well, so it's unfair to bash Turkey over their membership in NATO IMO.



The SC said:


> turkey should by all means play sick, if WW3 errupts in Europe, since it is considered the first line for NATO, but can not join the EU, because- n my own opinion it is a muslim nation , secular or not, christian nations forming the EU do not give a dam about it, even Roumania and poland for example with very ailing economies could join, but not Turkey even with a good economy.
> Turkey should not play in their hands by all means, it has obligations under NATO, so it should send some symbolic troops to the area of war and not let fools use it, its people and its territory as a shield for them and their cowardness.



They won't, Turkey isn't stupid and is playing everything the right way.

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## Targon

On op and other posts, I don't know what is the criteria ? are we talking about military ? economy ? everything ?

I think having a mass destruction weapon that you will most likely never use should not be taken that seriously, I mean so what if N. Korea gets Nukes ? how it will surpass South in anyway ?

Many criterias have to be discuissed for a healty ranking(still should not be taken seriously though), in my humble thoughts

1)Turkey is fairly balanced I think, fairly good economy, army, advancing quite well in many sectors, only thing we lack currently is a better mentality in government, after that we have the potential to catch up west.

2) Thats quite hard, Pakistan is considerably advanced in defence industry but I guess it has a fairly unbalanced economy which effects many other things badly, huge population is not helping(180 million man ! better start controlling it) it either. I would say Iran looks better balanced, despite sanctions they're doing quite fine especially in economy and science, also seemingly advancing in defence industry but we don't know if hoax or not. I'm putting Iran here.

3) Pakistan

4) Saudi Arabia

5) Egypt(this could be one of the South Asian countries as well but I'm not much informed about them)


@atatwolf stop

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## KingMamba

atatwolf said:


> We sticked at one place and moved to others. Turkic peoples stayed in Central Asia. Turkish people moved and conquered.
> 
> The point is, there are predators and there are prey. We are the predator. The predator doesn't stay at one place.



Lol Turkic people moved for the same reason anybody moves, resources were not in abundance where they were originally. Pakistan is right on top of the Indus river people came to Pakistan to settle including Turkics because the land could support them, it has nothing to do with predator or prey. Mughals came from Uzbekistan yet the people they conquered namely Pakistanis and Indias could easily swat Uzbekistan today. 

Btw the Turkics of Central Asia were conquered both by the Persians (if you go far back) and later the Mongolians conquered parts of Transoxania as well.

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## atatwolf

Hazzy997 said:


> Okay I see, that's not right. Turkey is a member of NATO although they've got a developing and large military industry. They can support themselves in a war even if they were cut off from all nations, Turkey can produce it's own weapons if it had more funding. Turkey has it's own electronics on fighter jets, their own drones, radars, tanks, anti-tank weapons, helicopters...etc....


True, a lot of projects are going on, but most important is information in war. Turkey has own satellites and cruise missiles. If you want to hit your target you first need to get the coordinations. Turkey is making very quick progress in this. The satellites in combination with UAV we are one of the countries that will be able to do blitzkrieg (lightning war). If you get information first, you will also be first to strike.



KingMamba said:


> Lol Turkic people moved for the same reason anybody moves, resources were not in abundance where they were originally. Pakistan is right on top of the Indus river people came to Pakistan to settle including Turkics because the land could support them, it has nothing to do with predator or prey. Mughals came from Uzbekistan yet the people they conquered namely Pakistanis and Indias could easily swat Uzbekistan today.
> 
> Btw the Turkics of Central Asia were conquered both by the Persians (if you go far back) and later the Mongolians conquered parts of Transoxania as well.



Central Asian Turkics got conquered. We Turks weren't conquered. That is why Turkey is strongest Turkic country and we will rebuit the legacy of Atilla, Babur Han, Alp Aslan, Genghis Khan, Chagatai Han, etc.

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## KingMamba

The SC said:


> Turkey should, by all means, play sick if WW3 errupts in Europe, since it is considered the first line for NATO, but can not join the EU, because - in my own opinion - it is a muslim nation , secular or not, christian nations forming the EU do not give a dam about it, even Roumania and poland for example with very ailing economies could join, but not Turkey even with a good economy.
> Turkey should not play in their hands by all means, it has obligations under NATO, so it should send some symbolic troops to the area of war and not let fools use it, its people and its territory as a shield for them and their cowardness.



Turkey should stay in NATO as long as it continues to suit them but Turkey should not rely on NATO to defend them when it matters namely against Russia or say even Greece (not that Turkey would need help against Greece but other euros would help Greece in any way possible).


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## The SC

Targon said:


> On op and other posts, I don't know what is the criteria ? are we talking about military ? economy ? everything ?
> 
> I think having a mass destruction weapon that you will most likely never use should not be taken that seriously, I mean so what if N. Korea gets Nukes ? how it will surpass South in anyway ?
> 
> Many criterias have to be discuissed for a healty ranking(still should not be taken seriously though), in my humble thoughts
> 
> 1)Turkey is fairly balanced I think, fairly good economy, army, advancing quite well in many sectors, only thing we lack currently is a better mentality in government, after that we have the potential to catch up west.
> 
> 2) Thats quite hard, Pakistan is considerably advanced in defence industry but I guess it has a fairly unbalanced economy which effects many other things badly, huge population is not helping(180 million man ! better start controlling it) it either. I would say Iran looks better balanced, despite sanctions they're doing quite fine especially in economy and science, also seemingly advancing in defence industry but we don't know if hoax or not. I'm putting Iran here.
> 
> 3) Pakistan
> 
> 4) Saudi Arabia
> 
> 5) Egypt(this could be one of the South Asian countries as well but I'm not much informed about them)
> 
> 
> @atatwolf stop



Iran plays no hoaxes, the threats are real and so are the Iranian weapons to deal with them.
If you think that way, then American and other's assessments about Iranian military capabilities are hoaxes too.

Egypt is following a policy of secrecy concerning its armed forces, and no one should blame them, since they are neighboring the most treacherous nation on earth, namely Israel.

So it is true that the ranking depends on what criteria we choose and an above all ranking too.


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## Targon

The SC said:


> Iran plays no hoaxes, the threats are real and so are the Iranian weapons to deal with them.
> If you think that way, then American and other's assessments about Iranian military capabilities are hoaxes too.
> 
> Egypt is following a policy of secrecy concerning its armed forces, and no one should blame them, since they are neighboring the most treacherous nation on earth, namely Israel.
> 
> So it is true that the ranking depends on what criteria we choose and an above all ranking too.



We can't tell if its hoax or not because usually they only share some blurry images, for most of stuff they produce nothing is known other then how its looks like, plus they have more then enough reason to fake it if they cannot realize it, after all they're under threat, sanctions and should look strong.

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## rmi5

Targon said:


> On op and other posts, I don't know what is the criteria ? are we talking about military ? economy ? everything ?
> *
> I think having a mass destruction weapon that you will most likely never use should not be taken that seriously, I mean so what if N. Korea gets Nukes ? how it will surpass South in anyway ?*
> 
> Many criterias have to be discuissed for a healty ranking(still should not be taken seriously though), in my humble thoughts
> 
> 1)Turkey is fairly balanced I think, fairly good economy, army, advancing quite well in many sectors, only thing we lack currently is a better mentality in government, after that we have the potential to catch up west.
> 
> 2) Thats quite hard, Pakistan is considerably advanced in defence industry but I guess it has a fairly unbalanced economy which effects many other things badly, huge population is not helping(180 million man ! better start controlling it) it either. I would say Iran looks better balanced, despite sanctions they're doing quite fine especially in economy and science, also seemingly advancing in defence industry but we don't know if hoax or not. I'm putting Iran here.
> 
> 3) Pakistan
> 
> 4) Saudi Arabia
> 
> 5) Egypt(this could be one of the South Asian countries as well but I'm not much informed about them)
> 
> 
> @atatwolf stop



IMO:
1)Turkey, Iran: Turkey has a more reasonable and stable regime, and Iran has more resources, like oil, gas, ....
2)Egypt, Pakistan: They have huge problems with their high population and low living standards, but, both of them have very strong armies. I saw that Egypt is pretty underestimated in the thread which it is not fair.
3)Saudi, Indonesia: they have pretty good economies, but specially Saudi economy is mostly a gas station economy and highly dependent on oil , and its prices. 
4)Malaysia, Morocco, Algeria, Iraq, BD, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan

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## The SC

Targon said:


> We can't tell if its hoax or not because usually they only share some blurry images, for most of stuff they produce nothing is known other then how its looks like, plus they have more then enough reason to fake it if they cannot realize it, after all they're under threat, sanctions and should look strong.


They are too pragmatic to just look strong, they are really strong, take my word on it. if you have any doubts watch the following video, it will enlighten you. They are not like Turkey aestetics wise but they have very efficient weapons and still more to come.


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## KingMamba

atatwolf said:


> Central Asian Turkics got conquered. We Turks weren't conquered. That is why Turkey is strongest Turkic country and we will rebuit the legacy of Atilla, Babur Han, Alp Aslan, Genghis Khan, Chagatai Han, etc.



What separates you from the Central Asian Turkics besides the fact that you guys moved west? Genghis Khan was a Mongol not a Turk and his horde conquered the Seljuks.

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## The SC

rmi5 said:


> IMO:
> 1)Turkey, Iran: Turkey has a more reasonable and stable regime, and Iran has more resources, like oil, gas, ....
> 2)Egypt, Pakistan: They have huge problems with their high population and low living standards, but, both of them have very strong armies. I saw that Egypt is pretty underestimated in the thread which it is not fair.
> 3)Saudi, Indonesia: they have pretty good economies, but specially Saudi economy is mostly a gas station economy and highly dependent on oil , and its prices.
> 4)Malaysia, Morocco, Algeria, Iraq, BD, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan



Algeria is militarily underrated in you rating, it has very sophisticated weapon systems and has build a modern and capable army.
Where is Indonesia guys?


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## thasti_phasti

Targon said:


> On op and other posts, I don't know what is the criteria ? are we talking about military ? economy ? everything ?
> 
> I think having a mass destruction weapon that you will most likely never use should not be taken that seriously, I mean so what if N. Korea gets Nukes ? how it will surpass South in anyway ?
> 
> @atatwolf stop



You are missing the point of having nukes. There is a reason Iran has crashed its economy despite so much oil, gas just to get nukes which he may never get. While Pakistan is ''accepted'' nuclear power without any sanctions. I doubt any country will turn away from having nuclear detterence plus no sanctions.

Though Turkey is number 1 no doubt about it.

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## atatwolf

KingMamba said:


> What separates you from the Central Asian Turkics besides the fact that you guys moved west? Genghis Khan was a Mongol not a Turk and his horde conquered the Seljuks.


Genghis Khan is one of us. He only captured the Ottoman sultan. It was a family fight. Turkic and Mongol peoples conquered each other. But Turkish people were never conquered the same way Inda (Pakistan) where conquered by Brits for example.


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## KingMamba

atatwolf said:


> Genghis Khan is one of us. He only captured the Ottoman sultan. It was a family fight. Turkic and Mongol peoples conquered each other. But Turkish people were never conquered the same way Inda (Pakistan) where conquered by Brits for example.



Ok what about Persian conquest of Central Asia?


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## jarves

The SC said:


> Hindu in plural Hindus, add hindouva now, the va from Israel.
> If you ask me personally, I find most Hindous nice, but with an agenda, if they knew you are a Muslim. Maybe due to the "bad" experiences with Muslim invasions in the past. Although I do not call them invasions, since the Muslims only responded to threats in every "invasion" depicted by western media. They used to ask other people to join them and evaluate their responses starting with other Arabs first in the beginning of Islam. It happened with the Romans, the Persians, the Europeans and with India, since they did not accept a message of peace and were rather arrogant by ignorance, they mobilized and sent huge armies to fight the Muslims who had no intention of war in the first place, but were hoping of peace for all and wishing others will join them in this peaceful frame of mind. To the Muslim's surprise most of the time, the answers stemmed from ignorance and bad faith, and the message of peace was interpreted as a threat by ignorant and violent populace, who were like the Arabs themselves before the coming of Islam, just warring amongst themselves and against anything else.
> So Islam was intended as an evolution in thought and deed for animal like humans living by the laws of the jungle up till now.


Thanks for the laugh what you said is clearly laughable in India' case maybe it could be true in other's case but not of India's.


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## nForce

KingMamba said:


> OK if that is your definition and Turks agree with it then I agree as well they are not a Muslim nation. So then it is between Pakistan and Iran for 1-2 spot.



That's THE definition...its not a matter of perspective.


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## The SC

jarves said:


> Thanks for the laugh what you said is clearly laughable in India' case maybe it could be true in other's case but not of India's.


You sentence does not make sense as an answer. Why India was an exception? The Muslim armies just choosed India and went to attack it.
You can see the truth concerning others but not in your case, you were the light of this world and Muslims came to distinguish it. your answer sounds like this. If India had the slightest ray of light at that time it would have joined Islam with open heart.
Even 3/4 of Gingis Khan Khanates joined Islam after his death, and even he was closer to Islam than to any other religion, since he tried many other religions himself. The Son of the king of Persia killed his own father for fighting Islam, and made Persia to embrace it open heartedly, Christian underdogs all over Christian kingdoms came to implore Muslims to hep them end Tyranny, and you were the only exception, can you please elaborate.


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## jarves

The SC said:


> You sentence does not make sense as an answer. Why India was an exception? The Muslim armies just choosed India and *went to attack it.*



Thats exactly what i am saying but you were bullshitting about peace and stuff.


The SC said:


> You can see the truth concerning others but not in your case, you were the light of this world and Muslims came to distinguish it. your answer sounds like this. If India had the slightest ray of light at that time it would have joined Islam with open heart.
> .


What you are talking about?? What is this ray of light.

Shoulld i explain you in detail the history of India??


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## Seaman

there were 17% moslim in India at 2001 census...now its reduced to 9 to10 %........ie it might be about10 crore people against95 crore Hindus ...offcourse iindia is not a moslim power.....


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## The SC

thasti_phasti said:


> You are missing the point of having nukes. There is a reason Iran has crashed its economy despite so much oil, gas just to get nukes which he may never get. While Pakistan is ''accepted'' nuclear power without any sanctions. I doubt any country will turn away from having nuclear detterence plus no sanctions.
> 
> Though Turkey is number 1 no doubt about it.


Well examples are numerous of nations turning away from having nukes although they master the nuclear cycle, Germany and the Scandinavians had a working design and did not make any nukes.
the truth is that if Iran ever crashed its economy like you have said, it is because of the nuclear cycle for civilian purposes not for a nuclear bomb. I think if Iran wanted nuclear weapons by all means, it had the means to acquire them more so than Pakistan.
But since it has no direct threat like Pakistan had from India, apart from Israel that Iran considers too feeble for it to pose any kind of threat. Iran is going for the civilian nuclear technology to be independent in its energy needs as well as in the nuclear medicine field, plus research and development.
So in reality the nuclear technology is like a knife , it is necessary in the kitchen, but some people can use it for harmful purposes.
If your neighbor is brandishing a knife from his kitchen as weapon, you might think about yours for defensive purposes, this the case of Pakistan. while For Iran the only one that might brandish a knife is a mosquito full of bluffs and is 1000th of the size of the knife, so that is no credible threat, and the conclusion was, no need for nuclear weapons.

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## Gaber

If we look at Global Firepower rank than it should be...
1. Turkey
2. Egypt
3. Pakistan
4. Indonesia
5. Iran

IMO
1. Turkey
2. Pakistan
3. Iran
4. Egypt
5. Saudi Arabia


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## Falcon29

The SC said:


> Well examples are numerous of nations turning away from having nukes although they master the nuclear cycle, Germany and the Scandinavians had a working design and did not make any nukes.
> the truth is that if Iran ever crashed its economy like you have said, it is because of the nuclear cycle for civilian purposes not for a nuclear bomb. I think if Iran wanted nuclear weapons by all means, it had the means to acquire them more so than Pakistan.
> But since it has no direct threat like Pakistan had from India, apart from Israel that Iran considers too feeble for it to pose any kind of threat. Iran is going for the civilian nuclear technology to be independent in its energy needs as well as in the nuclear medicine field, plus research and development.
> So in reality the nuclear technology is like a knife , it is necessary in the kitchen, but some people can use it for harmful purposes.
> If your neighbor is brandishing a knife from his kitchen as weapon, you might think about yours for defensive purposes, this the case of Pakistan. while For Iran the only one that might brandish a knife is a mosquito full of bluffs and is 1000th of the size of the knife, so that is no credible threat, and the conclusion was, no need for nuclear weapons.



Iran considers Israel what?


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## The SC

jarves said:


> Thats exactly what i am saying but you were bullshitting about peace and stuff.
> 
> What you are talking about?? What is this ray of light.
> 
> Shoulld i explain you in detail the history of India??



That is no bullshit, it was about peace with one self and peace with others, the only bullshit was India, you can not grasp the essence of the word Islam can you?
Do not need the history of India, I know the causes of the Muslim " invasion " and its traces left in India are the best India has to show up till now. 
Indian heritage, I do not know much more than some indigenous Pornography carved on stone, and so many Gods.
you can bring up anything you would like from the Upanishads or any other scripture, they just lack credibility in science methodologies and fail the tests of fidelity in time and validity in space-time. please do not take it as an insult, and try to use proper English with me, since I am not fond of vulgarities.

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## MOHSENAM

1- IRAN: superpower, full independence,own nukes, *Fastest scientific growth in whole of the world compared to any country(scientific output has grown 11 times faster in Iran than the world average)*

united country , clear-eyed , *supreme leadership* (valie vaghih) , leader with impartial sage and bravery ,* 20 million basiji *forces , one of the safest countries in the world , very very very strong forces inside the country
parliament democracy election and Islam
*very high culture and shia belief*
Full hands from farest Afghanistan to Palestine Africa , venezuela and …
Has china and north korea as points
*full Independent and very strong army
full* self-maded country
good relation with Europe

full independence economy
one of the top 20 economies(17) in the world despite the heaviest US sanctions
Persian gulf and caspian sea and...
Full self industry ,sciences and one of the top 10 in the world...
has oil for 50 years and Gas for 120 years.(the most oil and gas in the world)
Huge country with all forms of nature, flourishing, mountainous ...
One of the best lands in the world
Country with every kind of weather vegetable and fruit
*not puppet of any country*
can export Gas and oil everywhere


2.Indonesia
*Developing country*
Good economy
High population


3.Turkey

*Strong economy*
Good relation with Europe and USA
Good army
Flourishing country with good trading



4.Egypt

Strong army
high population
Developing country
Good future


5.Pakistan

Population
strong economy
flourishing country
strong army
China at the back



6.Saudi

Much oil
american equipments
developing

7.Iraq

big country
much oil and gas
good economy
developing country
a bit shia Independence


8.Syria

very strong army
united country
have oil
Good relation with Iran Russia china and...
developing country after war
very good geopolitical position

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## chhota bheem

Seaman said:


> there were 17% moslim in India at 2001 census...now its reduced to 9 to10 %........ie it might be about10 crore people against95 crore Hindus ...offcourse iindia is not a moslim power.....


Census of India: Religion
plz dont pull something from the rear if you dont know.

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## The SC

jarves said:


> Islam is the newest religion and have tribal medivieal laws,yeah i cannot grasp that.
> 
> You are just an ignorant who know nothing about India.Please do tell me what you know about it??
> 
> Islam is not better either all it has to to show pedophilism and bacchebazi and encouraging raping goats and camels and what not.Not to mention shariah which forces raped woman to marry the rapist.
> 
> No insult or offence taken.



I just told you and you started bashing Islam again, so what is the point of discussing with you , you want to compare the worst minds on earth to Islam, that is not feasible. sleep on it, and try to get rid of it, maybe Saudis are raping Hindus now instead of goats and camels, next time talk from you mouths if you have mouths not from your back orifices.

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## B+ Dracula

AFSOOOOOOOOS
Yaha JAZBAY aur JOSH ki koi Qadar nahi hy.........
Yaha TRILLION $ Economy ko dekha ja rha hy.......
--> they've no Idea of Afghan/Ussr & Afghan / Nato WARZ.....


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## The SC

That makes it 794 fighter planes for Iran, this data alone will change the ratings in many minds.


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## ManavKatha

Bail_Gadi_Driver said:


> India has 2nd most Muslims in word, why you didn't included India in your List ....when you can include Turkey which a secular state...you should edit and Put our Neighbor's name too....
> 
> But then India will be Rank 1...isn't it ...???



LOL........now that is sad but true


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## KingMamba

The SC said:


> I just told you and you started bashing Islam again, so what is the point of discussing with you , you want to compare the worst minds on earth to Islam, that is not feasible. sleep on it, and try to get rid of it, maybe Saudis are raping Hindus now instead of goats and camels, next time talk from you mouths if you have mouths not from your back orifices.



Leave him he is a kid and he makes stuff up.


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## jarves

KingMamba said:


> Leave him he is a kid and he makes stuff up.


He started insults first.Please do tell me when i have made stuff up??
I am ready to delete my posts if he deletes his.


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## KingMamba

jarves said:


> He started insults first.Please do tell me when i have made stuff up??



In other threads and in this one as well.


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## jarves

KingMamba said:


> In other threads and in this one as well.


Are you talking about Bhaiya and stuff?? that was just to troll shan.
In this thread this SC guy started insults.I am just replying in the same manner,now where is the problem??


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## B+ Dracula

atatwolf said:


> Turkey also has nukes. Plus Turkey has better land, air and navy than Pakistan. We never have been conquered, we are one of the few people on earth that never been conquered which Pakistan can't say.


THE HISTORY WHICH I CAME TO KNOW??
The region where turks are living was called ASIA Minor - in 1300 under Ottomans they first time united as TURKS - turks history begins after that timelime....Before that era Anatolia region were captured To & Fro between Romans & Persians....then ARABS
Turks came into power when Arabs hired them As Slave in their Court - their duty was to protect Caliph later those turks when gained power , they started interference in day to day matters ((and yes they converted into Islam))
*But common sense says to us:* Turks were recognized after 1300 AD.....
1. Pakistan was not in the Map of world before 1947 ...
2. Turks Arabs and Persians are *ONE COMMUNITY *unlike Pakistan we're combined union of "Arabs~Indians(massive)~Afghans~Turks~mongols~Persians(iam persian).......etc.
So our History g starts after 1947 in other words we're modern form of Arabs and Turks, Allah gave us the chance to protect muslim ummah ......in that NEW TIMELINE of 2000AD

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## Marwat Khan Lodhi

Turkey is economically and militarily stronger than pakistan, also stable.


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## The SC

@jarves
Cyber talk like this is of no value, real life experience will show you.
Do not know who can not handle it, you seem more inclined to insults than I am, you excel in that while from my part you should know in time.


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## jarves

The SC said:


> @jarves
> Cyber talk like this is of no value, real life experience will show you.


True that,apply same logic to yourself.


The SC said:


> Do not know who can not handle it, you seem more inclined to insults than I am, you excel in that while from my part you should know in time.


I normally dont start insults,you clearly started insults first by saying that India is shit and blah whereas i didnt abused religion or Islam.I wast just questioning your knowledge about history of India after which you went crazy and insuted Hinduism and upnishads of which you clearly dont have any knowledge.
I believe in replying in the same coin so from next time be respectful towards others and others religion and you will also get respect in return.

@Manticore Now dont ban me for posting this.We are just resolving the misunderstandings which aroused unnecessarily.

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## B+ Dracula

Targon said:


> Thats quite hard, Pakistan is considerably advanced in defence industry but I guess it has a fairly unbalanced economy which effects many other things badly, huge population is not helping(180 million man ! better start controlling it) it either. I would say Iran looks better balanced, despite sanctions they're doing quite fine especially in economy and science, also seemingly advancing in defence industry but we don't know if hoax or not. I'm putting Iran here.


Iam fond of History I love to talk on that subject, I will give you an example from your Own history, 
Country with all sorts of Problem wont mislead you to fair Conclusion...
- Turkey was once called sick man of Europe??
- Turkey land was once surrounded 4 sides with Enemy Borders (Armenia, Russia, Hungary, Greeks else) ...that incident OBLITERATED you??
enemies are blessings So are Defeats - they push you force you to Re-think your strategy,


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## The SC

jarves said:


> True that,apply same logic to yourself.
> 
> I normally dont start insults,you clearly started insults first by saying that India is shit and blah whereas i didnt abused religion or Islam.I wast just questioning your knowledge about history of India after which you went crazy and insuted Hinduism and upnishads of which you clearly dont have any knowledge.
> I believe in replying in the same coin so from next time be respectful towards others and others religion and you will also get respect in return.
> 
> @Manticore Now dont ban me for posting this.We are just resolving the misunderstandings which aroused unnecessarily.


I told you i knew india and talked about the Kamasutra carved in stones, and you started the insults, that hurts you a lot, kama sutra on stones, explicit sexual positions in public are banned in every decent society , up till today, it is called pornography.
And that is not the issue here.


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## jarves

The SC said:


> I told you i knew india and talked about the Kamasutra carved in stones, and you started the insults, that hurts you a lot, kama sutra on stones, explicit sexual positions in public are banned in every decent society , up till today, it is called pornography.
> And that is not the issue here.


I also told you that Pedophilism and legalizing rape is banned in every decent society,that hurted you a lot.I dont know why.
Secondly your posts about Kamsutra and Upnishads shows how much knowledge you have.
Anyway thats the non issue here.

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## B+ Dracula

atatwolf said:


> Genghis Khan is one of us. He only captured the Ottoman sultan. It was a family fight. Turkic and Mongol peoples conquered each other. But Turkish people were never conquered the same way Inda (Pakistan) where conquered by Brits for example.


dear ! india was mingled society at that time, turkey is 100% muslim country unlike india...it was people like you who spread the ray of life here in that region and we're outcome of long Evolution which finally ends in 1947.......SUFFICE IT TO SAY...



The SC said:


> That is no bullshit, it was about peace with one self and peace with others, the only bullshit was India, you can not grasp the essence of the word Islam can you?
> Do not need the history of India, I know the causes of the Muslim " invasion " and its traces left in India are the best India has to show up till now.
> Indian heritage, I do not know much more than some indigenous Pornography carved on stone, and so many Gods.
> you can bring up anything you would like from the Upanishads or any other scripture, they just lack credibility in science methodologies and fail the tests of fidelity in time and validity in space-time. please do not take it as an insult, and try to use proper English with me, since I am not fond of vulgarities.


I dont know what is the problem with Jarves, He have some unknown problems with Muslims, Iam unable to guess...What does he want from us??


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## OrionHunter

'Powerful' in what respect? Expect for being a nuclear state having an army of 700,000, what else does Pakistan have to make it the most powerful? Economy? Industrialization? Manpower? Development? Mortality rates? Education? Health? Standard of living? Growth? Trade? Human resources? Safety of citizens? Law and order? Foreign exchange reserves? Foreign investments? Sport? Energy? Mineral wealth? What exactly is meant by 'powerful'?

This thread should have been titled, *5 Most Powerful Muslim Armies. *


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## B+ Dracula

Fortunately Indians wont claim Hinduism a Religion (they're educated people now). they fear if we ask scientific question about there stories they wont be able to answer us....
Moreover Indians are same Old Pagans, when Europeans were Pagans they were un-educated, Immoral, regions of the world, atleast religion gave them strength, but Indians kept-on Rejecting???


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## WAR-rior

Anoushirvan said:


> Fortunately Indians wont claim Hinduism a Religion (they're educated people now). they fear if we ask scientific question about there stories they wont be able to answer us....
> Moreover Indians are same Old Pagans, when Europeans were Pagans they were un-educated, Immoral, regions of the world, atleast religion gave them strength, but Indians kept-on Rejecting???


Pakistani talking bout education. Applause PDFians.

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## B+ Dracula

Aur kro hamari Bistiiiii..........Sukooon mil ra hooo ga


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## WAR-rior

Anoushirvan said:


> Aur kro hamari Bistiiiii..........Sukooon mil ra hooo ga


Sukoon to nahi but mazaa aa rha hai. Tum aise mauke jo dete ho laakh.

Thoda akalmando wali baaten karo to normal bhi lage.


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## B+ Dracula

WAR-rior said:


> Thoda akalmando wali baaten karo to normal bhi lage.


ma koi Socrate ki university ma Pahata tha??....ya Socrate maray UNCLE lagty hain...............tum Bary Alim Fazil hoo...to kro Aqal mandoo wali baat.....Hum bhi tumhari Education sy FAIZ-YAAAB hooo


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## WAR-rior

Anoushirvan said:


> ma koi Socrate ki university ma Pahata tha??....ya Socrate maray UNCLE lagty hain...............tum Bary Alim Fazil hoo...to kro Aqal mandoo wali baat.....Hum bhi tumhari Education sy FAIZ-YAAAB hooo


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## applesauce

MOHSENAM said:


> 1- IRAN: superpower



we have a very different interpretation of the word "superpower"

Iran is a regional power for sure, but far short of superpower.


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## B+ Dracula

its not about who is best....the design pattern of Pakistan Army is not AGGRESSIVE its created to sustain AGGRESSIVE ASSAULT of INDIAN military...........PAK Army DESIGNED pattern by default is defensive.
Q: What makes Army Aggressive??
I think ECONOMY is backbone of army design......German/USA/France/Russia/India/china are definitely Aggressive by its Gigantic Economy size.....(its my view)

I've no Idea ...about turkey / iran


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## arp2041

Your list is FRAUD, BD comes as NUMERO UNO & all others are distinct second, third, fourth & so on............

every BD member would agree with me here @BDforever @MBI Munshi @idune @kalu_miah 

even Indian members would agree with me @Sidak @JanjaWeed @scorpionx @DRAY

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## B+ Dracula

***Actually***
Iam ardent & best player of Computer Game "Age of Empire II" and "Rise of Nation"...they are my all time favourite games, ....
Military without Cash in Hand is Impossible dream to think...for that I've to acquire all important resources in the game like WOOD StONE, Wealth, OIL, Steel etc...& it can be done by creating markets and trading with your friends and enemies....
(Scenario 1) IF I'VE NO OR LITTLE MONEY
Then i try to create cheaper army to defend my territory, and i avoid purchasing assaulting military equipments
(Scnario 2) IF MY ECONOMY IS GROWING
then i used to assault my weak neighbours  after conquring them i've to install all necessary military equipment on that defending city to keep my occupation in control then i seek other weak cities ....but without good economy the dream of conquest is impossible


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## JanjaWeed

arp2041 said:


> Your list is FRAUD, BD comes as NUMERO UNO & all others are distinct second, third, fourth & so on............
> 
> every BD member would agree with me here @BDforever @MBI Munshi @idune @kalu_miah
> 
> even Indian members would agree with me @Sidak @JanjaWeed @scorpionx @DRAY


just another 'make me feel good' kinda thread... nothing else! 

Powerful in what sense? military alone? Even N. Korea has one of the most powerful armed forces in the world along with nuclear weapons. But what's their influence & significance in the world? 
Just a stupid list without any basis!


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## The SC

OrionHunter said:


> 'Powerful' in what respect? Expect for being a nuclear state having an army of 700,000, what else does Pakistan have to make it the most powerful? Economy? Industrialization? Manpower? Development? Mortality rates? Education? Health? Standard of living? Growth? Trade? Human resources? Safety of citizens? Law and order? Foreign exchange reserves? Foreign investments? Sport? Energy? Mineral wealth? What exactly is meant by 'powerful'?
> 
> This thread should have been titled, *5 Most Powerful Muslim Armies. *


It depends on your neighbourhood a lot, but still, Pakistan is doing relatively well under exraordinary conditions for the last 35 years; afghan wars for the whole last century and millions of afghan refugees, foreigh mingling in interior affairs and Idian menaces and threats on the other side.



jarves said:


> I also told you that Pedophilism and legalizing rape is banned in every decent society,that hurted you a lot.I dont know why.
> Secondly your posts about Kamsutra and Upnishads shows how much knowledge you have.
> Anyway thats the non issue here.


Do not bring rape here , it reminds the whole planet of India.
Back to topic please, or better yet, back to you corner of Indian defense , this thread is about muslim countries, and for whom it may concern in discussing it by personnal knowledge.

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## jarves

The SC said:


> Do not bring rape here , it reminds the whole planet of India.


Because you are ignorant like most of the Pakistanis here.India is one of the countries with lowest per capita rape figures.



The SC said:


> Back to topic please, or better yet, back to you corner of Indian defense , this thread is about muslim countries, and for whom it may concern in discussing it by personnal knowledge.


Ok No more oftopic posts from now.


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## B+ Dracula

jarves said:


> Because you are ignorant like most of the Pakistanis here.India is one of the countries with lowest per capita rape figures.
> In countries like Pakistan people are trying to legalize pedophilism in the name of Islam,now tell me what is more shameful.
> The SC said: ↑


Damn Sure ! he is Part of Propaganda warfare ??- How your Mind catch up those stupid stories and you BRAZEN OX link filthy news to ISLAM?? 
*....Not you iam want answer from other indian members* 
Q: Is that true ! In your Belief system speaking LIES are allowed? bcoz someone said to me few years back?? i need clarification


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## jarves

Anoushirvan said:


> Damn Sure ! he is Part of Propaganda warfare ??- How your Mind catch up those stupid stories and you BRAZEN OX link filthy news to ISLAM??
> *....Not you iam want answer from other indian members*
> Q: Is that true ! In your Belief system speaking LIES are allowed? bcoz someone said to me few years back?? i need clarification


What i said is true,i can give you links but lets not further derail the thread.I will edit my post.
I can give you links if you want??

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## The SC

jarves said:


> Because you are ignorant like most of the Pakistanis here.India is one of the countries with lowest per capita rape figures.
> 
> 
> Ok No more oftopic posts from now.


You throw in a personnal insult and then you say now we can go back to topic. Have you thought about your personnal psychological problem or need someone to remind you of it.
The topic my dear is this , You and your india are day dreaming if you think you can win a war against pakistan , CSD or anything you can imagine in your aand your israeli friends minds. And here is why:

Last option: There is a variant of tactical nuclear bombs, called the neutron bomb, it is more efficent in the battle field and can penetrate armour, no human can survive it while the armoured vehicles will be taken as a war trophy.
The main option: which is conventional is to have a full division or two from the army and reserves armed with TOW like antitank missiles to trap advancing Indian tank columns, 10 or 20 000 of antitank missiles would finish off up to 3000 to 6000 indian tanks.
Pakistan should prepare as much as possible of these anti-tank missiles, more than the ten thousand or so it has, by making them locally to thwart any number of tanks India might throw in. With no tanks left, there will be no possibility for CSD or any other conventional threat from India.


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## anonymus

The SC said:


> You throw in a personnal insult and then you say now we can go back to topic. Have you thought about your personnal psychological problem or need someone to remind you of it.
> The topic my dear is this , You and your india are day dreaming if you think you can win a war against pakistan , CSD or anything you can imagine in your aand your israeli friends minds. And here is why:
> 
> Last option: There is a variant of tactical nuclear bombs, called the neutron bomb, it is more efficent in the battle field and can penetrate armour, no human can survive it while the armoured vehicles will be taken as a war trophy.
> The main option: which is conventional is to have a full division or two from the army and reserves armed with TOW like antitank missiles to trap advancing Indian tank columns, 10 or 20 000 of antitank missiles would finish off up to 3000 to 6000 indian tanks.
> Pakistan should prepare as much as possible of these anti-tank missiles, more than the ten thousand or so it has, by making them locally to thwart any number of tanks India might throw in. With no tanks left, there will be no possibility for CSD or any other conventional threat from India.




India has all of them in larger quantity and has lager infantry to clean up pakistani anti tank teams.


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## Sliver

the most powerful Muslim country is one of the three countries that has not been able to stop a meagre polio virus.


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## B+ Dracula

Sliver said:


> the most powerful Muslim country is one of the three countries that has not been able to stop a meagre polio virus.


World ZIONIST NATIONs are losing war with meager AFGHANISTAN
.


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## The SC

anonymus said:


> India has all of them in larger quantity and has lager infantry to clean up pakistani anti tank teams.


So your infantry wiil precede your tanks, you must be a better strategist than your generals.



Sliver said:


> the most powerful Muslim country is one of the three countries that has not been able to stop a meagre polio virus.


Last news, it is in the states now.


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## B+ Dracula

anonymus said:


> India has all of them in larger quantity and has lager infantry to clean up pakistani anti tank teams.


We know each Brilliant History, its the People who fight not Arsenals, everybody is counting mass destruction weapons NOT FIGHTERS who fights and Love to be DEAD
There is difference in attitude of Perceiver - *U cant compare GRASS with TREE*


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## jarves

The SC said:


> You throw in a personnal insult and then you say now we can go back to topic. Have you thought about your personnal psychological problem or need someone to remind you of it.


You did the same thing in the above post,You are dumber than i thought,seriously you Pakis never fail to amuse.


The SC said:


> The topic my dear is this , You and your india are day dreaming if you think you can win a war against pakistan , CSD or anything you can imagine in your aand your israeli friends minds. And here is why:


From where suddenly India defeating Pakistan came into the picture retard 
Read my previous post again to see if i have mentioned about Pakistan defeating India or CSD 
As expected your iq is in negative but you are Paksitani so no suprises here  


The SC said:


> Last option: There is a variant of tactical nuclear bombs, called the neutron bomb,
> it is more efficent in the battle field and can penetrate armour, no human can survive it while the armoured vehicles will be taken as a war trophy.





The SC said:


> The main option: which is conventional is to have a full division or two from the army and reserves armed with TOW like antitank missiles to trap advancing Indian tank columns, 10 or 20 000 of antitank missiles would finish off up to 3000 to 6000 indian tanks.





The SC said:


> Pakistan should prepare as much as possible of these anti-tank missiles, more than the ten thousand or so it has, by making them locally to thwart any number of tanks India might throw in. With no tanks left, there will be no possibility for CSD or any other conventional threat from India.


There is nothing called as CSD,,Dont come up with these reatarded theories. 


The SC said:


> The topic my dear is this , You and your india are day dreaming if you think you can win a war against pakistan , CSD or anything you can imagine in your aand your israeli friends minds.


We have defeated Pakistan in all four wars in the Past and in one of the wars we sliced Pakistan in two parts and 93000 of your soldiers surrendered.History will repeat itself 

Now get back to the topic,I dont how India defeating Pakistan suddenly came into the picture.

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## Edevelop

Sliver said:


> the most powerful Muslim country is one of the three countries that has not been able to stop a meagre polio virus.



World's Super Power is one which has no Health Care and one which has half of the population living on Food Banks


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## jarves

Turkey is clearly the most powerful country.It has the largest GDP among the muslim countries and the most powerful army.
Its social indicators match standards of western countries and not to mention Turkey itself is a part of NATO.

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## anonymus

Anoushirvan said:


> We know each Brilliant History, its the People who fight not Arsenals, everybody is counting mass destruction weapons NOT FIGHTERS who fights and Love to be DEAD
> There is difference in attitude of Perceiver - *U cant compare GRASS with TREE*




We have fought 4 wars and result is there for all to see. Your whole armies were slaughtered of battlefield by inferior Indian forces. 

I am taking about this battle 


Battle of Longewala - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​





​A company of Indian infantry destroyed a Pakistani Armored division consisting of Infantry brigade 206,Armored regiment 38 cavalry, 51 infantry brigade and 26th cavalry.

Add to it the fact that in east Pakistan, your army surrendered without a fight.
​


The SC said:


> So your infantry wiil precede your tanks, you must be a better strategist than your generals.
> .



Infantry does not precedes but moves along with Tanks. Both India and Pakistan employs mixed formation tactics. Instead after disasters of pure Armor approach like that in first battle of grozney, Tanks are always used in conjugation with mechanized Infantry.

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## Informant

The SC said:


> Number 3 is not true, If Iran wanted nuclear weapons it would have made them long time ago.



Dream on pal that aint gonna happen.

Where is Iran brigade? Day dreaming through the ROOF


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## jarves

@Anoushirvan I just checked the thread again and saw your posts about me which i missed somehow.When you have to say something about me then quote me directly instead of acting like a girl.I hope you will take care of this in future
And i dont have any problems with Muslims or Islam he abused India and Hinduism first after which i replied,that posts have been deleted now.


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## B+ Dracula

anonymus said:


> We have fought 4 wars and result is there for all to see. Your whole armies were slaughtered of battlefield by inferior Indian forces.
> I am taking about this battle


I just have a bird Eye view on the Articles only for Facts - which results in victory our pakistan in 1971,...
Earlier when you quoted me I was talking about *LONG TERM HISTORY* of some nation ...(centuries after centuries)
You in response Quoted me a battle of 1971, which i think is not fair BCOZ I Love history too much and If i take You Back in Pre-Century Era then most probably You & your friends wont like that......*BATTLE LOST is nothing for me* in a WAR many battles are lost or win ??So why not re-arrange the Question
Q: What the Final End Result you have??
Q: Have you won the Battle or Lost WAR??
In a history i can mention you many battles muslims lost but *End Result* = they Ruled Sub-Continent 10 Centuries (10-0) Margin STRAIGHT..........Simple Isn't it???

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## anonymus

Anoushirvan said:


> I just have a bird Eye view on the Articles only for Facts - which results in victory our pakistan in 1971,...
> Earlier when you quoted me I was talking about *LONG TERM HISTORY* of some nation ...(centuries after centuries)
> You in response Quoted me a battle of 1971, which i think is not fair BCOZ I Love history too much and If i take You Back in Pre-Century Era then most probably You & your friends wont like that......*BATTLE LOST is nothing for me* in a WAR many battles are lost or win ??So why not re-arrange the Question
> Q: What the Final End Result you have??
> Q: Have you won the Battle or Lost WAR??
> In a history i can mention you many battles muslims lost but *End Result* = they Ruled Sub-Continent 10 Centuries (10-0) Margin STRAIGHT..........Simple Isn't it???




Since you talk of end results, the end result is that India is one of the world's strongest Nation Economically, Militarily and Culturally.

On the other hand your puny *** country is synonymous with terrorism, bigotry ,is widely reviled as failed state and your proclivity to kiss Arab *** means that you have no cultural power which you can project anywhere.



Regarding 1000 year bullshit that you madrasa graduates regurgitates five times a day, whole of India was never ever under Muslim rule,not even for a single day. India is not a 3 1/2 province country like your Pakistan; there are 36 small and large provinces and even in Greater India, only Baluchistan was under Muslim rule for 1000 years.


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## InvisbleSoldier

Saudi Arabia is a muslim country but works on terms and conditions of US. They hate Pakistani's the most.


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## Jaanbaz

Make a list when Muslim countries are producing world class scientists, intellectuals, professors, writers, leaders and when they make a single car from a scratch or even windscreen wipers.

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## MOHSENAM

One page in one line: Saudi and US wants to weaken Pakistan Iraq Lebanon Syria... and US wants to weaken India,as well they want to weaken China...
US is great devil...


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## ozzy22

1.Turkey - Strong all around

2. Saudi Arabia - Has massive energy reserves and has great influence in the world economy

3. Iran - The Muslim country that has the most potential but has idiotic leaders

4 .Pakistan - Nuclear weapons and has a strong military but has a unstable political situation and a weak economy but has great potential

5.Egypt - powerful army but has an unstable political situation and has a weak economy, but has great potential


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## B+ Dracula

anonymus said:


> Regarding 1000 year bullshit that you madrasa graduates regurgitates five times a day, whole of India was never ever under Muslim rule,not even for a single day. India is not a 3 1/2 province country like your Pakistan; there are 36 small and large provinces and even in Greater India, only Baluchistan was under Muslim rule for 1000 years.


Be Calm, I never intended to Hurt anyone........

@Jaanbaz Your Avatar is So Amusing.......It makes me laugh every time...I see

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