# Chinese cars 'still below par'



## Banana

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/motoring/2013-02/19/content_16236462.htm



> Curtains are about to fall at this year's Chicago autoshow. 30 brands have brought over 1,000 flashy new car models to the event, with roaring SUVs, fancy sport cars and eco-friendly vehicles finding strong appeal.
> Sharing the stage with its western counterparts, Asian cars have impressed the car fans with their latest in-car electronic devices and innovative shapes. But one major manufacturer from the region was missing at the show: China.
> The country is the world's No 1 auto market in terms of sales, *but most of its car brands are contractors of foreign cars and its own products are still below par compared with global competitors, especially in terms of safety and emission standards.
> Car industry insiders say, Chinese car makers could learn from their Japanese and South Korean counterparts, as they improved the quality of their cars significantly in just a decade, and were successful in gaining a huge market share in the Western market.*
> The Chicago Automobile Trade Association is welcoming Chinese cars to access the North American market. But so far, Chinese self-owned car brands have mainly exported cars to African and Middle Eastern markets. The country is however highly ambitious to grab a slice of the global market cake.



Chinese automakers face major hurdles: News from warc.com



> BEIJING: Domestic automakers in China are lagging behind their overseas rivals in terms of consumer perceptions and sales, a trend that executives do not expect to change in the immediate future.
> 
> According to the Chinese Association of Automobile Manufacturers, the market share held by indigenous firms fell from 49.2% in January 2010 to just 37% in July 2012. Foreign and joint venture brands thus control 63% of the passenger vehicle market.
> 
> "*China's indigenous cars are lowest on the food chain*," Liu Yu, deputy sales chief of BAIC Motor Corp, told Bloomberg. "Our margins are next to nothing ... The difficulties are way more than I previously imagined and we are struggling to find solutions."
> 
> Long-standing legislation requiring foreign companies to form joint ventures with domestic manufacturers has therefore, it seems, failed in its objective to make Chinese brands competitive.
> 
> "*We have been trying to exchange market access for technology, but we have barely gotten hold of any key technologies in the past 30 years*," said Liao Xionghui, vice president of Lifan Industry Group. "China's auto industry is still in its infancy.* How can a two-year-old beat someone in his thirties?* "
> 
> In order to gain a share of the huge new vehicle market, which delivered sales of over 18m units in 2011, Chinese automakers may need to rapidly improve product quality and perceptions.
> 
> "There is a belief at this point in time that international brands have more technology, and in some cases better craftsmanship," said Joe Hinrichs, president of Ford's Asia Pacific and Africa region.
> 
> Companies such as Great Wall, the country's biggest maker of sport-utility vehicles, are hiring foreign designers in an attempt to boost confidence.
> 
> However, JD Power & Associates' recent Dependability Study noted that local brands reported 75% more problems than the foreign alternatives.
> 
> "It is not just one product that changes perception but it is many products over two to three model cycles, five to seven years," said Charles Mills, a vice president at JD Power, the Consultancy. "Even if they come up with a beautiful skin of a vehicle, the people still have to believe the vehicle is going to deliver as good an experience as something else."
> 
> Local automakers actually fell short of government targets aiming to have two or three local companies with annual sales of more than 2m units last year, and four or five with sales in excess of 1m.
> 
> As a result, the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology has instituted a consolidation programme that will revoke production permits for firms failing to make 1,000 passenger vehicles annually for two consecutive years.
> 
> More positively, exports of Chinese autos are predicted to jump by 50% in 2012, with Russia being the biggest destination, and Brazil posting the fastest growth.

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## Developereo

_"It takes 20 years to build a reputation and 5 minutes to ruin it."_ - Warren Buffett

There are no shortcuts.

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## kbd-raaf

Yeah, being an Indian and therefore very price conscious, I drove a Great Wall X240 for a test drive. Even whilst priced $10k AUD below the nearest competitor I would never get one. Ride and build quality are terrible.

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## Banana

kbd-raaf said:


> Yeah, being an Indian and therefore very price conscious, I drove a Great Wall X240 for a test drive. Even whilst priced $10k AUD below the nearest competitor I would never get one. Ride and build quality are terrible.



Great Wall is the best Chinese automaker to compete internationally.

Even Mahindra beats the hell out of them.

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## Skull and Bones

Only if they cared a bit about the car safety systems, but some of their cars do look good.


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## Banana

Skull and Bones said:


> Only if they cared a bit about the car safety systems, but some of their cars do look good.



All the Designs are starighaway lifted from established automakers designs.

Safety, Build Quality, Well engineered cars. Do the Chinese even know what that means?

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## kbd-raaf

Banana said:


> Great Wall is the best Chinese automaker to compete internationally.
> 
> Even Mahindra beats the hell out of them.



Indeed. 

However, I find it interesting is that when I drove the Mahindra Pik Up (essentially a Mahindra Bolero) I found that it is on the same level of build and ride quality as the latest gen X240. Mahindra has a great opportunity to improve their offerings in Australia by aggressively promoting the Scorpio and the XUV500 etc here, but they choose not too.

I actually provided an analysis of this for my marketing unit as part of my degree. Might upload it here if anybody is interested.

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## Banana

kbd-raaf said:


> Indeed.
> 
> However, I find it interesting is that when I drove the Mahindra Pik Up (essentially a Mahindra Bolero) I found that it is on the same level of build and ride quality as the latest gen X240. Mahindra has a great opportunity to improve their offerings in Australia by aggressively promoting the Scorpio and the XUV500 etc here, but they choose not too.
> 
> I actually provided an analysis of this for my marketing unit as part of my degree. Might upload it here if anybody is interested.



The Ute is there in Australia since 2007. Its the same product. Wait till they launch the next gen Scorpio.

Mahindra has launched the XUV 500 and it has garnered decent reviews in South Africa and Australia.

I can show you that.

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## Skull and Bones

Banana said:


> All the Designs are starighaway lifted from established automakers designs.
> 
> Safety, Build Quality, Well engineered cars. Do the Chinese even know what that means?



Nope, these words doesn't exactly translate well in mandarin.

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## Minjitta

kbd-raaf said:


> Yeah, being an Indian and therefore very price conscious, I drove a Great Wall X240 for a test drive. Even whilst priced $10k AUD below the nearest competitor I would never get one. Ride and build quality are terrible.


$10K AUD, that is cheap, you can make big profit buy the new Great Wall and take it a parts, then sell as spare parts. I am sure you can double your profits.


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## darkhero

Banana said:


> Great Wall is the best Chinese automaker to compete internationally.
> 
> Even Mahindra beats the hell out of them.



Is this Mahindra an Indian car? Only heard a tiny car called nano before.

If your cars are so good, why is China selling cars around the world, while India... well, actually I don't know about India, but I guess you are not able to sell your car in other countries, right? otherwise, you won't have $20B trade deficit every month.

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## Nan Yang

Chinese Car Crash Test: Geely Emgrand EC7 (Euro-NCAP - 4 stars)

Chinese Car Crash Test: Geely Emgrand EC7 (Euro-NCAP - 4 stars) - YouTube



Chinese Car Crash Test: MG6 (Euro-NCAP - 4 stars)

Chinese Car Crash Test: MG6 (Euro-NCAP - 4 stars) - YouTube





Chinese Car Crash Test: Brilliance BS4 (Side) (Euro-NCAP - 4 stars)

Chinese Car Crash Test: Brilliance BS4 (Side) - EuroNCAP - YouTube





Chinese Car Crash Test: Brilliance BS4 (Front) (Euro-NCAP &#8211; 3 stars)

Chinese Car Crash Test: Brilliance BS4 (Front) - EuroNCAP - YouTube

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## gslv mk3

Mahindra XUV500 AWD (2012-on) - 4 star ANCAP safety rating





Tata Nano takes a European level crash test at MIRA test facility. 








darkhero said:


> Is this Mahindra an Indian car? *Only heard a tiny car called nano before.*
> 
> If your cars are so good, why is China selling cars around the world, *while India... well, actually I don't know about India, but I guess you are not able to sell your car in other countries, right?* otherwise, you won't have $20B trade deficit every month.



jesus christ

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## gslv mk3

TATA INDICA VISTA EV TEST DRIVE






http://www.tatamotors.it/

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## Shinigami

darkhero said:


> Is this Mahindra an Indian car? Only heard a tiny car called nano before.
> 
> If your cars are so good, why is China selling cars around the world, while India... well, actually I don't know about India, but I guess you are not able to sell your car in other countries, right? otherwise, you won't have $20B trade deficit every month.



yes india manufactures and exports alot of cars, from both indian and non indian companies

mahindra is an indian company thats known for tractors and SUVs like these












nano is just the tip and it is the cheapest car of tata. but they make a lot more than just cars
















then there are the Modded limited edition cars like these






and dont even get me started on the motorbikes

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## gslv mk3

[video]http://www.defence.pk/forums/social-issues-current-events/30531-mahindra-scorpio-wins-3rd-brazillian-rally.html[/video]



Shinigami said:


> and dont even get me started on the motorbikes



You mean gulsar??


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## Shinigami

gslv mk3 said:


> [video]http://www.defence.pk/forums/social-issues-current-events/30531-mahindra-scorpio-wins-3rd-brazillian-rally.html[/video]
> 
> 
> 
> You mean gulsar??



 i gues only 2 countries can beat india in manufacturing kick @ss motorcycles. Japan and USA
hold on. ducati is from italy right?


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## Cherokee

gslv mk3 said:


> [video]http://www.defence.pk/forums/social-issues-current-events/30531-mahindra-scorpio-wins-3rd-brazillian-rally.html[/video]
> 
> 
> 
> You mean gulsar??




I have pulsar 200 ns . I find even the word 'gulsar' extremely derogating to my "euripedes" .


Pulsar 200 ns







Fake , pathetic "gulsar"






Gulsar would shatter into oblivion on a speed breaker for god's sake .



Shinigami said:


> i gues only 2 countries can beat india in manufacturing kick @ss motorcycles. Japan and USA



Germany as well . And India is nowhere near italy luxury market ( i am not talking about TATA's buyouts) .

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## gslv mk3

Shinigami said:


> i gues only 2 countries can beat india in manufacturing kick @ss motorcycles. Japan and USA



Nope buddy...you forgot italian manufacturers (Ducati,Aprilia,BMW,triumph and the like) and Korean (Hyosung..err...) ones?



Cherokee said:


> I have pulsar 200 ns .



Pulsar 375

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## Cherokee

gslv mk3 said:


> Nope buddy...you forgot italian manufacturers (Ducati,Aprilia,triumph and the like) and Korean (Hyosung..err...) ones?
> 
> 
> 
> Pulsar 375
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its not official . but lets see . Plus i am feeling cheated . Within a couple of months Duke 390 will be launched


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## gslv mk3

Cherokee said:


> Its not official . but lets see . Plus i am feeling cheated . Within a couple of months Duke 390 will be launched



its a spyyy shottt ...!!!!!

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## Shinigami

so the 375 may not look like that?


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## gslv mk3

Shinigami said:


> so the 375 may not look like that?



some changes,we have seen the same spy shot drama with XUV 500.........


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## Shinigami

gslv mk3 said:


> some changes,we have seen the same spy shot drama with XUV 500.........



that looks like a freakin ducati. i will be impressed if Bajaj pulls it off



gslv mk3 said:


>



is mahindra strong in Auz?


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## Ayush

what is this gulsar ??


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## gslv mk3

Shinigami said:


> that looks like a freakin ducati. i will be impressed if Bajaj pulls it off



headlamps look like Yamaha R1's



Ayush said:


> what is this gulsar ??



http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorbikes/9883-chinese-pulsar-2.html

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## TheJewverine

Chinese/Indian cars, not even once...

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## INDIC

Ayush said:


> what is this gulsar ??



Chinese copy of Indian bike Pulsar.

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## Ayush

TheJewverine said:


> Chinese/Indian cars, not even once...



why??


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## Peregrine

Some Chinese cars

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## Shinigami

standing up for them. nice 

i remember seeing a rolls royce on the net once. turned out to be a chinese copy. its kinda funny if you think about it

Fake Rolls Royce Chinese copy Rolls Royce Phantom with Rolls Royce / Geely adverts - YouTube


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## Peregrine

Chinese cars

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Another silly pissing thread

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## Peregrine

Shinigami said:


> standing up for them. nice
> 
> i remember seeing a rolls royce on the net once. turned out to be a chinese copy. its kinda funny if you think about it



Awwww! Did I just spoil your lil orgasm fest? 
Not standing for anyone the thread is related to Chinese cars so posting pictures of their cars here......There is no need for you to act out.

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## Shinigami

Peregrine said:


> Awwww! Did I just spoil your lil orgasm fest?
> Not standing for anyone the thread is related to Chinese cars so posting pictures of their cars here......There is no need for you to act out.



i'll be fine 
just watching higher than the himalayas deeper than the seas friendship in action

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## Peregrine

Chinese cars

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## Peregrine

shout said:


> ok. but what about Safety, Build Quality, Well engineere...








Safety of Chinese cars improves

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## Peregrine

Chinese sports cars















Four door sports car? Now thats wicked.

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## kbd-raaf

Minjitta said:


> $10K AUD, that is cheap, you can make big profit buy the new Great Wall and take it a parts, then sell as spare parts. I am sure you can double your profits.



Haha, no I mean it is 10K AUD BELOW the price of the next competitor. It's like 24k AUD and I think a Toyota is 33K or so.


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## kbd-raaf

If nobody believes that Indian cars are better. Read this review from a reputed car advice website here in straya. Mahindra XUV500 Review |*CarAdvice

It concludes with:



> With a drive-away price starting at $29,900 for the 2WD version and $32,900 for the AWD version the Mahindra XUV500 is priced aggressively to help find favour among car buyers in Australia, though even if the styling wont be for everyone the XUV500 is a surprise package that *shows India is ahead of China in the car-building stakes.*

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## huskie

both Chinese cars and Indian cars are currently sub par, so what the fuss is all about?

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## ice bomb

huskie said:


> both Chinese cars and Indian cars are currently sub par, so what the fuss is all about?



Unfortunately people from third world countries tend to laugh at each others progress.

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## Nan Yang

Even good for war !










Battle Proven !


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## somebozo

Chinese cars are disposable tin cans.

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## darkhero

LURKER said:


> Someone's trying very hard
> 
> Hope the masters are noticing



You jealous Indians have no idea what friendship is

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## shuttler

shout said:


> ok. but what about Safety, Build Quality, Well engineere...



There are still magins for improvement for our car makers
I dont see indian braggers are ahead of us!

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## shuttler

*China's March auto sales up 13.3 percent*

http://news.yahoo.com/Apr 11, 2013

*



Drivers bought a total of 4.4 million cars in the first three months of the year, up 17.2 percent from a year earlier, according to CAAM. Total vehicle sales rose 13.2 percent to 5.4 million.

Sales in March by Chinese domestic brands rose 14 percent to 688,000 vehicles, the group said.

Click to expand...

*
We cannot pick up the slack of japanese cars, just able to maintain average growth. us german and s. korean cars have taken up the loss from japanese car sales.

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## gubbi

Nan Yang said:


> Even good for war !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Battle Proven !



Ah! the Chinese made "*Technicals*"!!
So basically this proves that China does interfere in internal conflicts of other countries, especially helping the 'rebels'... no?


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## shuttler

Shinigami said:


> i gues only 2 countries can beat india in manufacturing kick @ss motorcycles. Japan and USA
> hold on. ducati is from italy right?



I dont think too many countries will agree to this statement except for the delusional bragging indians



gubbi said:


> So basically this proves that China does interfere in internal conflicts of other countries, especially helping the 'rebels'... no?



how much proof from a picture? cheerleader!

typical indian simpleton mindset. first to look for scapegoats - either China and/or Pakistan are the easy targets!

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## shuttler

*Chinese carmakers are improving dramatically*
&#8211; GAF interview with Pedro Kutney, chief editor of Automotive Business Brazil
by Wayne Xing 2012-09-07

Aritcle

*Q:* The major export market of JAC is in Brazil, where JAC sold 24,000 vehicles in 2011. Have you ever talked about Chinese vehicles with people around you? Generally speaking, what do they think of Chinese vehicles?

*Kutney*: Yes *JAC* was the major Chinese vehicle brand in Brazil last year, and importer SHC Group is expected to grow to 45,000 units this year. But after the Brazilian government increased import tariffs at the end of 2011, this expectation was reduced to 30,000.

JAC representative announced last year to invest $500 million to build a factory but last month the plan was put on hold due to some regulation uncertainties.

The second best sold Chinese brand in Brazil is *Chery*, which is also building a factory in the country, but did not cancel this plan. Chery sold 22,000 units last year and expects to sell 60,000 this year. Again with increased tariffs, the target was reduced to 30,000.

So, after this little introduction, the answer to the question is yes, I do often talk with people about Chinese vehicles, and I already have driven JAC and Chery cars here. Like myself, most Brazilians think the price is good when compared to a similar car made in Brazil. The design is also comparable with great brands. But most consumers have some concerns about reliability and aftermarket service. However, I think this view is changing fast, as importers and Chinese automakers are improving dramatically their quality as time goes by.

*Q*: What do you think of the Chinese brands over the past several years? What do you think that they should do to further improve?

*Kutney*: I think Chinese vehicle OEMs are doing fine over the past years, powered by the huge Chinese market. But there are still some room to improve quality and design to be successful worldwide. I also think they are following the right way to be successful internationally, acquiring technology from reputed suppliers and contacting good design offices in Europe. However, all of this takes time, just like Japanese and Korean car makers have taken several years to be able to make some of the best cars in the world. Now Chinese brands have to build their image, with good products, marketing strategies and more publicity.

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## Shinigami

shuttler said:


> I dont think too many countries will agree to this statement except for the delusional bragging indians
> 
> 
> 
> how much proof from a picture? cheerleader!
> 
> typical indian simpleton mindset. first to look for scapegoats - either China and/or Pakistan are the easy targets!



what do you have to say about this guys comment?



kbd-raaf said:


> If nobody believes that Indian cars are better. Read this review from a reputed car advice website here in straya. Mahindra XUV500 Review |*CarAdvice
> 
> It concludes with:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With a drive-away price starting at $29,900 for the 2WD version and $32,900 for the AWD version the Mahindra XUV500 is priced aggressively to help find favour among car buyers in Australia, though even if the styling wont be for everyone the XUV500 is a surprise package *that shows India is ahead of China in the car-building stakes*.
Click to expand...

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## GDan

Peregrine said:


> Four door sports car? Now thats wicked.



It does look very nice, but that car(The Fisker Karma) was designed by a Danish man working for an American carmaker and was manufactured in Finland. It is definitely not Chinese.

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## Genesis

yea, what else is new. Guess what at one point Hyundai was crap, at one point Japanese cars were trash, at one point American cars were the joke. 

Brands take time, the Chinese luxury brands are just starting out, you can't really compare it. However, our industrial base is huge, creative force massive and funding unlimited. So tell me how are we not going into the right direction?

Worse comes to worse, our own cars will always have a market here at home and that will be the benefit of doing business from a major economy. If we are ever defeated, we can retreat, tend to our wounds, fix the problem and attack once more.

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## Beerbal

What is the point in opening such thread, We all know China rely on quantity. We all know there quality is pathetic. 


No one buy chines product for quality, we all buy coz its cheap... 

Movie "126 hours": Franco was trying to cut his hand (as it was trapped into heavy rock), the knife betrayed him, the actor quoting in movie "Never buy chinese products, they always betray you"..

Its universal truth...


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## Peregrine

GDan said:


> It does look very nice, but that car(The Fisker Karma) was designed by a Danish man working for an American carmaker and was manufactured in Finland. It is definitely not Chinese.



True and Fisker Karma is in talks with the Chinese to avoid bankruptcy. So it may very well become Chinese soon.

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## rott

Cherokee said:


> I have pulsar 200 ns . I find even the word 'gulsar' extremely derogating to my "euripedes" .
> 
> Gulsar would shatter into oblivion on a speed breaker for god's sake .



Pulsar - Infamously renowned as "THE NUT CRACKER" in India. The design is flawed. 
In an emergency situation, the rider dies before the impact. Reason? The Riders nuts get jammed between the fuel tank when braked hard. That's the bitter truth.

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## Cherokee

rott said:


> Pulsar - Infamously renowned as "THE NUT CRACKER" in India. The design is flawed.
> In an emergency situation, the rider dies before the impact. Reason? The Riders nuts get jammed between the fuel tank when braked hard. That's the bitter truth.



The first model of p150 launched a decade back was named that . Pulsar has come a long way from there . 
pulsar 200 ns mexico - YouTube

check for many such reviews , not by Indians but Latin Americans and Far easterners as well

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## Banana

Peregrine said:


> Awwww! Did I just spoil your lil orgasm fest?
> Not standing for anyone the thread is related to Chinese cars so posting pictures of their cars here......There is no need for you to act out.





> Chinese automakers have relied too much on foreign companies to be competitive and the gap between domestic and foreign brands threatens to get bigger.
> 
> Foreign companies helped kick-start China's auto industry, and offered easy success as Chinese automakers earned enormous profits from the sale of foreign-brand cars.
> 
> But it has also bred complacency.
> 
> For a time, the problems were masked by glowing sales statistics, but as the market stutters, the problems have become obvious, said Zhong Shi, an independent auto industry analyst in Beijing.
> 
> Auto sales in the country experienced a decade of double-digit growth up to 2011. But those figures were achieved by allowing foreign automakers to build vehicles in joint ventures with local companies, most of them state-owned.
> 
> As foreign multinationals took advantage of low labor costs to tap into the world's largest auto market, China hoped that it would attract foreign investment and obtain technology to build up its own auto industry and catch up with the West.
> 
> Today, big names such as General Motors, Volkswagen and Toyota are dominant in China.
> 
> Despite the overall slowdown in the Chinese market, these brands remain confident about growth and are racing to increase capacity at their joint ventures in the country, where customers prefer foreign-brand cars.
> 
> Local brands still lag far behind in terms of both technology and market share. To make matters worse, they are losing out to foreign rivals even in the low-end market.
> 
> Analysts warned that half of them risk being wiped out sooner or later.
> 
> Unwanted side effects
> 
> Jia Xinguang, another independent analyst, said that while it had benefited from the joint ventures, China had overlooked the "side effects" - over-dependence on ready-made technology and foreign dominance.
> 
> Turning a deaf ear to calls to develop their own intellectual property, some state-owned automakers opted for the easy way, relying on their foreign partners for profits while paying lip service to independent research and development, he said.
> 
> First Automobile Works Group is an example. Involved in ventures with Volkswagen, Toyota and Mazda, it promised in high-profile publicity to develop self-owned brands at all costs.
> 
> But after a one-year probe, the National Audit Office revealed in June that FAW had not sufficiently invested in independently researching and developing its own models and that its 2008-2010 profits stemmed largely from joint ventures. The audit report was no surprise for Chinese auto fans.
> 
> Since the 1990s, a series of FAW vehicles sporting the top Red Flag brand, a Communist symbol, have been based on foreign-brand products, including the Audi 100, Lincoln Town Car and Toyota Crown Majesta.
> 
> FAW came under the spotlight again last month following an intellectual property dispute with Volkswagen, which is investigating whether its Chinese partner illegally copied its engine designs and plans to export a model equipped with the engines.
> 
> "The claim of some state enterprises that they are developing their own models is a marketing stunt intended to show they are listening to state leaders, or else a blatant lie," claimed Jia. "I tell the truth and so they don't like me."
> 
> Failing to convince
> 
> Criticism has intensified as some state-owned automakers and their joint venture partners launch so-called self-developed local-brand cars. *The cars are no more than low-priced, rebadged and relaunched versions of foreign-brand models that just went out of production.* *{Pictures of cars you posted are these. }*
> 
> *Examples are the Everus S1, which is based on the Guangzhou Honda City, the Venucia D50 based on the Dongfeng Nissan Tiida or the Ciimo based on the Dongfeng Honda Civic. Ironically, dealers of the Ciimo in Beijing changed the car's new logo back to Honda's "H"to boost sales because customers prefer foreign brands to real domestic ones, which have a poor reputation for quality.*
> 
> Though some said that relaunching foreign-brand models as local-brand ones complied with government policy that aims to push foreign companies to transfer technology, many doubted that using outdated foreign technology for "self-developed" cars could provide any long-term benefit.
> 
> Without self-owned technology, the Chinese would have to continue depending on foreigners to launch future generations of these cars, they said.
> 
> "This is corruption because the policy is made to favor foreign automakers, but not local ones," said Rao Da, chief of the China Passenger Car Association and son of the man who headed FAW in the time of Mao Zedong. "How come we were able to design and manufacture the luxury Red Flag limousine in the 1950s but needed to import steering technology for mid-sized trucks in the 1980s?"
> 
> He believes that using foreign technology wherever possible discourages Chinese technicians from improving and that is why big state-owned automakers have so far failed to stop their own brands losing ground.
> 
> Too many JVs
> 
> Although China's auto industry is widely believed to be overdependent on foreign companies, auto factories continue to sprout across the nation.
> 
> Volkswagen and its partner Shanghai Auto are building their seventh plant, Ford said it would build its sixth, and Renault and Nissan's luxury brand Infiniti both said they would begin to produce vehicles here in two years.
> 
> Dong Yang, chief of the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers, said, "The joint ventures are undeniably successful, but we have attracted enough foreign investment and don't need to open the industry further."
> 
> "The government should immediately halt approvals of new joint ventures," Rao warned. "Opening the industry any further will kill off local automakers and even threaten national security."
> 
> "It's not joint ventures and huge car sale volumes that will make China's auto industry strong. What we need are domestic companies with strong capabilities in research and development," he added.
> 
> Wishful thinking
> 
> Many people are persuaded that the Chinese auto industry followed a strategy of "trading the market for technology," but analysts said this was wishful thinking because core technology can only be acquired by paying high prices or by doing independent research.
> 
> "*Right now, China is powerless to break away from foreign automakers and their joint ventures.* On the other hand, it must promote its own auto industry by taking the tough technology lessons they have so far neglected. That is the only way to stop the dependence deepening," said Zhong.
> 
> Wang Xiaoguang, a policymaking adviser at the Chinese Academy of Governance, said that industry policy was fundamentally mistaken and that China should stop state enterprises relying on joint ventures for easy money without doing any real R&D. "Otherwise, they are doomed to fail," he said.



Chinese automakers depend too much on foreign technology - China.org.cn



ice bomb said:


> Unfortunately people from third world countries tend to laugh at each others progress.



Does your country even make Cars?

No!

The Whole World laughs at you.


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## Banana

..........................................................


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## Peregrine

Banana said:


> Chinese automakers depend too much on foreign technology - China.org.cn



Interesting read from forbes

There are over 100 automakers in China compared to only two major American car companies today: General Motors and Ford. Shanghai Automotive is the countrys biggest by revenue: $33.6 billion in 2010. Geely Automotive is another major. Its best known for the London taxi cabs it produces, and its 2010

Geely builds London's famous cabs.

acquisition of Volvo from Ford.

Still, Chinas cars are far from winning the hearts and minds of the locals.

We asked people about that: whether they would be open to buy a Chinese made luxury car instead of a foreign premium and forty percent said they were open to it, says Sha Sha. This is a market thats five to 10 years away yet. China is very much an open market for the big global auto makers, she says. The bar for the locals is very high.

In the world of passenger cars, Chinas auto companies are where the Japanese were in the 1970s, or Korea in the late 1980s. Today, Toyota is the best selling car again in the U.S. Its Lexus brand is one of the best selling luxury cars in the U.S. Hyundais Equus gets compared all the time to Lexus and Mercedes Benz in auto magazines.

Its going to take a lot of talent and a lot of really good management to bring Chinas car companies on par with Japanese and Korean automakers, says Kaas. The recent news that the government is saying it will buy cars from China original equipment makers (read: local brands) is a sign that Beijing is pushing for more global players to partner with the locals. GM, for instance, partners with Shanghai Automotive. There, Shanghai Automotive Group can copy a little bit there. Tweak a little bit here, for their home grown models.

Not all Chinese automakers are going to go after the luxury segment, says Sha Sha, citing Great Wall Motors as an example. Theyve got SUVs, sedans, pick-ups and minis.

Passenger cars or luxury, China is the powertrain for global auto makers now. Theyre the powertrain now because the majors are looking into the future now, and the future for premium and standard passenger vehicles is in China.

China is impacting investment decisions of these major car companies, says Kaas. The country matters a lot for corporate strategy. The industry has finite resources. Where do you want to invest it? Where do you want to focus your advertising? he asks.

Though he thinks he has the answer: China.

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## Jackdaws

I am surprised with all the talk about car manufacturing, no one has yet brought up what in my opinion is Mahindra's best bet in the long run - the e2o 
















It is an electric vehicle - something the world needs. Granted that the best innovation in electric cars has come from Tesla Motors in the US but this is quite astounding given that this car costs less than 1/5th of what a Tesla costs. Running costs is just 63 paise / km 

Tata too has invested heavily in EVs. They are the future - not the gas guzzlers.


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## Banana

Peregrine said:


> Interesting read from forbes
> 
> There are over 100 automakers in China compared to only two major American car companies today: General Motors and Ford. Shanghai Automotive is the country&#8217;s biggest by revenue: $33.6 billion in 2010. Geely Automotive is another major. It&#8217;s best known for the London taxi cabs it produces, and its 2010
> 
> Geely builds London's famous cabs.
> 
> acquisition of Volvo from Ford.
> 
> Still, China&#8217;s cars are far from winning the hearts and minds of the locals.
> 
> &#8220;We asked people about that: whether they would be open to buy a Chinese made luxury car instead of a foreign premium and forty percent said they were open to it,&#8221; says Sha Sha. &#8220;This is a market that&#8217;s five to 10 years away yet. China is very much an open market for the big global auto makers,&#8221; she says. &#8220;The bar for the locals is very high.&#8221;
> 
> In the world of passenger cars, China&#8217;s auto companies are where the Japanese were in the 1970s, or Korea in the late 1980s. Today, Toyota is the best selling car again in the U.S. It&#8217;s Lexus brand is one of the best selling luxury cars in the U.S. Hyundai&#8217;s Equus gets compared all the time to Lexus and Mercedes Benz in auto magazines.
> 
> &#8220;It&#8217;s going to take a lot of talent and a lot of really good management to bring China&#8217;s car companies on par with Japanese and Korean automakers,&#8221; says Kaas. The recent news that the government is saying it will buy cars from China original equipment makers (read: local brands) is a sign that Beijing is pushing for more global players to partner with the locals. GM, for instance, partners with Shanghai Automotive. There, Shanghai Automotive Group can copy a little bit there. Tweak a little bit here, for their home grown models.
> 
> &#8220;Not all Chinese automakers are going to go after the luxury segment,&#8221; says Sha Sha, citing Great Wall Motors as an example. They&#8217;ve got SUVs, sedans, pick-ups and minis.
> 
> Passenger cars or luxury, China is the powertrain for global auto makers now. They&#8217;re the powertrain now because the majors are looking into the future now, and the future for premium and standard passenger vehicles is in China.
> 
> &#8220;China is impacting investment decisions of these major car companies,&#8221; says Kaas. &#8220;The country matters a lot for corporate strategy. The industry has finite resources. Where do you want to invest it? Where do you want to focus your advertising?&#8221; he asks.
> 
> Though he thinks he has the answer: China.
> 
> 
> The Norwegian guys post didnt show up in reply....so I didnt know. But I deleted my post already.



It talks about China as a Market.

Show me Chinese Companies, their Cars sold in Major Markets outside of low $10,000 market in China?

Reviews on Chinese Cars by reputed Auto magazines, websites?



Jackdaws said:


> I am surprised with all the talk about car manufacturing, no one has yet brought up what in my opinion is Mahindra's best bet in the long run - the e2o
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is an electric vehicle - something the world needs. Granted that the best innovation in electric cars has come from Tesla Motors in the US but this is quite astounding given that this car costs less than 1/5th of what a Tesla costs. Running costs is just 63 paise / km
> 
> Tata too has invested heavily in EVs. They are the future - not the gas guzzlers.



BS.

Electric Vehicles run on subsidy. Your and mine Tax payers money.

Gas Guzzling vehicles pay a lot of tax in excise, import duty and petrol tax!


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## rott

Banana said:


> Does your country even make Cars?
> 
> No!
> 
> The Whole World laughs at you.



Chinese cars are sold in India if you are not aware of it. Heard of Chevrolet SAIL? A JV between GM and SAIC. SAIL is a Chinese car, developed and manufactured by China.

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## Jackdaws

Banana said:


> It talks about China as a Market.
> 
> Show me Chinese Companies, their Cars sold in Major Markets outside of low $10,000 market in China?
> 
> Reviews on Chinese Cars by reputed Auto magazines, websites?
> 
> 
> 
> BS.
> 
> Electric Vehicles run on subsidy. Your and mine Tax payers money.
> 
> Gas Guzzling vehicles pay a lot of tax in excise, import duty and petrol tax!



Actually, they are only subsidized in Delhi - else you have to pay full market value. Gas guzzling vehicles depend on petrol which we have to import in ridiculously high quantities - we can generate electricity ourselves.

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## Jackdaws

rott said:


> Chinese cars are sold in India if you are not aware of it. Heard of Chevrolet SAIL? A JV between GM and SAIC. SAIL is a Chinese car, developed and manufactured by China.



Yes - they did launch it in India - three SAIL cars - the Chevrolet Sail U-Va (a hatchback), the Sail sedan and the Chevrolet Enjoy. They are decent cars - anyhow, @Banana was asking that question to a Pakistani.

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## Peregrine

Banana said:


> It talks about China as a Market.
> 
> Show me Chinese Companies, their Cars sold in Major Markets outside of low $10,000 market in China?
> 
> Reviews on Chinese Cars by reputed Auto magazines, websites?



China's vehicle exports top 1-million mark for first time[1]|chinadaily.com.cn

China car exports up 24% over January &#8211; April | CarNewsChina.com - China Auto News

* Geely delivered 24,333 vehicles to more than 15 markets, including Azerbaijan, Russia, Ukraine, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Great Wall exports reached more than 22 markets, including Algeria, Angola, Australia, Bolivia, Columbia, Kenya, Israel, Russia and Ukraine *

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## Banana

rott said:


> Chinese cars are sold in India if you are not aware of it. Heard of Chevrolet SAIL? A JV between GM and SAIC. SAIL is a Chinese car, developed and manufactured by China.



It sells because it is a Chevy.

Not SAIC. SAIC is just a sub-contractor for Chevy, Buick, Cadillac and now Opel.

Sail is built from GMs resources. Chinese brands would not even qualify to sell in India.

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## Peregrine

WoW Geely cars are quite nice. They should launch in Pakistan as well

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## Banana

Peregrine said:


> China's vehicle exports top 1-million mark for first time[1]|chinadaily.com.cn
> 
> China car exports up 24% over January &#8211; April | CarNewsChina.com - China Auto News
> 
> * Geely delivered 24,333 vehicles to more than 15 markets, including Azerbaijan, Russia, Ukraine, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Great Wall exports reached more than 22 markets, including Algeria, Angola, Australia, Bolivia, Columbia, Kenya, Israel, Russia and Ukraine *



Again Chery QQ and crap exported to most countries where such cars are God sent cars.

My point has always been Indian made cars are miles ahead of Chinese cars.

I am talking about Indian Companies and Chinese Companies.

Not JVs or foreign made cars.



Jackdaws said:


> Actually, they are only subsidized in Delhi - else you have to pay full market value. Gas guzzling vehicles depend on petrol which we have to import in ridiculously high quantities - we can generate electricity ourselves.



That is the key.

If no subsidies, who will buy electric vehicle.

Mahindra E20, I enquired from Andheri RTO - 9,00,000 INR OTR.

I can buy Amaze Top End, City Corporate edition OTR!


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## Peregrine

Picture of Geely in service with Cuban police




Doesnt look mexican police thou.

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## rott

Banana said:


> Again Chery QQ and crap exported to most countries where such cars are God sent cars.
> 
> My point has always been Indian made cars are miles ahead of Chinese cars.
> 
> I am talking about Indian Companies and Chinese Companies.
> 
> Not JVs or foreign made cars.
> 
> 
> 
> That is the key.
> 
> If no subsidies, who will buy electric vehicle.
> 
> Mahindra E20, I enquired from Andheri RTO - 9,00,000 INR OTR.
> 
> I can buy Amaze Top End, City Corporate edition OTR!



Thankfully not all Indian members are like you. At least they make sense.

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## Banana

rott said:


> Thankfully not all Indian members are like you. At least they make sense.



No carpet brushing.

I can show you with facts.

Are you ready?


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## shuttler

Shinigami said:


> what do you have to say about this guys comment?



You always have different opinions on the same issue
I thought democratic indians are long used to evaluating conflicting opinions, but no, far from it!


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## jhungary

Each brand of Car in the world have their own representation.

If you wans slick, stylish supercar, you go for European 
If you want Horse power drag racer, you go for American
If you want fuel for your mileage and maintenance proof, you go for Japanese car
If you want a cheap car, you go for Chinese

Chinese car is bad, honestly, but they are also cheap, you cannot expect for a price 10k cheaper and you have the same driving quality with Australian car

Just look at this you tube and you will see those Top gear guy rating Chinese car

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## rott

A quote from a T-Bhp member since I am not yet allowed to post links.

"When you guys returned from the drive and shared your observations, I was surprised. Don&#8217;t think any of us expected the Sail to be so darn competent. The 1.3L diesel, sheer space and awesome ride quality should win it many fans. Masses will love the light steering & neutral road behaviour too. Indeed, it&#8217;s an all-rounder of a family hatchback."


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## Peregrine

Banana said:


> Again Chery QQ and crap exported to most countries where such cars are God sent cars.
> 
> My point has always been Indian made cars are miles ahead of Chinese cars.
> 
> I am talking about Indian Companies and Chinese Companies.
> 
> Not JVs or foreign made cars.



No not just cherry. In 2011 China exported 1560 cars to Cuba. That may not mean much to you, but they certainly are doing good and making progress.
One of those cars exported was EC7 and it certainly doesnt looks crappy from any angle





And its not much of a JV if they own the other company like Geely owns Volvo.

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## Banana

rott said:


> A quote from a T-Bhp member since I am not yet allowed to post links.
> 
> "When you guys returned from the drive and shared your observations, I was surprised. Don&#8217;t think any of us expected the Sail to be so darn competent. The 1.3L diesel, sheer space and awesome ride quality should win it many fans. Masses will love the light steering & neutral road behaviour too. Indeed, it&#8217;s an all-rounder of a family hatchback."



1.3 Multijet Diesel is a Fiat engine. Not Chinese. 

It is a Chevrolet badged. Not a SAIC!

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## Jackdaws

Banana said:


> Again Chery QQ and crap exported to most countries where such cars are God sent cars.
> 
> My point has always been Indian made cars are miles ahead of Chinese cars.
> 
> I am talking about Indian Companies and Chinese Companies.
> 
> Not JVs or foreign made cars.
> 
> 
> 
> That is the key.
> 
> If no subsidies, who will buy electric vehicle.
> 
> Mahindra E20, I enquired from Andheri RTO - 9,00,000 INR OTR.
> 
> I can buy Amaze Top End, City Corporate edition OTR!



True, I don't dispute that one bit. I am an exception to the rule since my commute is very less within the city itself and I agree I am not representative of the Indian car buyer. Perhaps I should have been clearer - my post was to illustrate the innovation in the Indian auto industry in manufacturing. It is nice that these guys are thinking ahead - I am pretty sure Mahindra itself knew that they would not chalk up great numbers with the e2o. With economies of scale, the prices might fall. You can clearly see that the 2nd generation EV is leaps and bounds ahead of the weird looking little Reva. 
But in the future the technological prowess will be very useful - I understand this year M&M is also going to launch an electric Verito.

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## rott

jhungary said:


> Each brand of Car in the world have their own representation.
> 
> If you wans slick, stylish supercar, you go for European
> If you want Horse power drag racer, you go for American
> If you want fuel for your mileage and maintenance proof, you go for Japanese car
> If you want a cheap car, you go for Chinese
> 
> Chinese car is bad, honestly, but they are also cheap, you cannot expect for a price 10k cheaper and you have the same driving quality with Australian car
> 
> Just look at this you tube and you will see those Top gear guy rating Chinese car



1. The thing about you is Anti-Chinese
2. We are talking about VFM cars. 
3. We are well aware Chinese cars are not yet among the well established brands. 
4. Cheap doesn't mean a bucket of bolts. It's still VFM.
5. Chery, SAIC and GW will be up there with the best in a decade. 
6. You're a F***ing idiot!

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## Banana

Peregrine said:


> No not just cherry. In 2011 China exported 1560 cars to Cuba. That may not mean much to you, but they certainly are doing good and making progress.
> One of those cars exported was EC7 and it certainly doesnt looks crappy from any angle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And its not much of a JV if they own the other company like Geely owns Volvo.



Even Islamic republic of Pakistan can export Sitara and Cubans will snap up every piece!

That does not mean progress.

If that is called progress, Chinese Automakers are ridiculed world wide.

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## IceCold

Peregrine said:


> WoW Geely cars are quite nice. They should launch in Pakistan as well



Actually this model was launched in Pakistan and was way cheap then any of its counterpart in Honda and Toyota even Suzuki, but guess what, humeri mentality toyota honda sa bahir nikala gi to hum kuch or purchase kerin ga.

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## Jackdaws

Banana said:


> 1.3 Multijet Diesel is a Fiat engine. Not Chinese.
> 
> It is a Chevrolet badged. Not a SAIC!



Darn - even this uses the 1.3 Multijet? Poor Fiat - no one buys their cars here, just about everyone uses their engines.


----------



## rott

Banana said:


> 1.3 Multijet Diesel is a Fiat engine. Not Chinese.
> 
> It is a Chevrolet badged. Not a SAIC!



Wait for another 3 post and i'll post you the link. Please don't accuse me of lying.


----------



## Banana

Jackdaws said:


> True, I don't dispute that one bit. I am an exception to the rule since my commute is very less within the city itself and I agree I am not representative of the Indian car buyer. Perhaps I should have been clearer - my post was to illustrate the innovation in the Indian auto industry in manufacturing. It is nice that these guys are thinking ahead - I am pretty sure Mahindra itself knew that they would not chalk up great numbers with the e2o. With economies of scale, the prices might fall. You can clearly see that the 2nd generation EV is leaps and bounds ahead of the weird looking little Reva.
> But in the future the technological prowess will be very useful - I understand this year M&M is also going to launch an electric Verito.



I am in full agreement with your views.

The issue about electric cars is can they become main stream without subsidies?

E20 is a F*cking awesome car. Ever look on the road, catches every eyeballs!



rott said:


> Wait for another 3 post and i'll post you the link. Please don't accuse me of lying.



Here you go:

Don't make useless efforts.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-02-01/news/36684532_1_sail-u-va-chevrolet-sail-new-sedan



> while the *diesel Sail sedan is powered by the Fiat-sourced 1.3 litre Multijet engine* which develops 78 PS @4000 rpm and 205 Nm @ 1750 rpm.

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## Jackdaws

Peregrine said:


> No not just cherry. In 2011 China exported 1560 cars to Cuba. That may not mean much to you, but they certainly are doing good and making progress.
> One of those cars exported was EC7 and it certainly doesnt looks crappy from any angle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And its not much of a JV if they own the other company like Geely owns Volvo.



Cuba? U know Cubans still use 1950s model US cars. They are so starved for cars - you put an electric motor in an Amish buggy and they will snap that up too.


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## Banana

Jackdaws said:


> Darn - even this uses the 1.3 Multijet? Poor Fiat - no one buys their cars here, just about everyone uses their engines.



Even Ambassador sells more than all Fiats combined.


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## rott

Jackdaws said:


> Darn - even this uses the 1.3 Multijet? Poor Fiat - no one buys their cars here, just about everyone uses their engines.



I've driven a FIAT Punto (Emotion) in India. 76 or rather 75 BHP. The car does move. Not good for long drives. Not sure about other's opinion, but to me the brake, clutch and the gas pedals were too high and strains the legs.

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## rott

Banana said:


> I am in full agreement with your views.
> 
> The issue about electric cars is can they become main stream without subsidies?
> 
> E20 is a F*cking awesome car. Ever look on the road, catches every eyeballs!
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go:
> 
> Don't make useless efforts.



You've made a rather useless effort. You compare economic times to Team BHP?
T-BHP is the most trusted Indian site ever. Economic times has no clue about technicalities. Now I understand as to why you named yourself as "BANANA" 

Here you go

Click here

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## Peregrine

Banana said:


> Even Islamic republic of Pakistan can export Sitara and Cubans will snap up every piece!
> 
> That does not mean progress.
> 
> If that is called progress, Chinese Automakers are ridiculed world wide.


Cuba was just one example, they have access to multiple markets. As for the progress part you are dead wrong, even watch the top gear video posted above and carefully listen to what they were saying......They are not there yet, but catching up very fast. Would that pose a serious threat to the Indian automobile industry...YES! They have dethroned nano, havnt they? 

China Launches World

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## walle

Great wall sold 30k vehicle in Australia since June July 2009 to 2013 April. Its one of the fastest growing brands, outgrowing the pace when korean vehicle first hit down under. I often see great walls around Sydney, I rarely ever seen a mahindra (since 2007). Both make 4 x4 utes.

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## rott

Great wall Motors are entering the Indian Market after the successful SAIL with GM.

Link

Another Great Read

Link

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## shuttler

Some of our car manufacturers websites:

*FAW*

*Chery*

*Chang'an*

*Great Wall Motors*

*GEELY*

*JAC Motors*

*BYD*

*SAIC*

*GAC Group*

*BAIC*

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## Banana

rott said:


> You've made a rather useless effort. You compare economic times to Team BHP?
> T-BHP is the most trusted Indian site ever. Economic times has no clue about technicalities. Now I understand as to why you named yourself as "BANANA"
> 
> Here you go
> 
> Click here



Economic Times is the World's Second most visited news website after nytimes. More than CNN and BBC.

Atleast you will believe Top Gear?

BBC TopGear Magazine India Car-Reviews - Review: Chevrolet Sail U-VA



> There are two engine options  *a 1.2-litre MultiJet diesel (Fiat-sourced)*

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## theniubt

California City to Buy Chinese Electric Buses

No indian junks to be seen on US roads anytime soon.

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## Banana

shuttler said:


> Some of our car manufacturers websites:
> 
> *FAW*
> 
> *Chery*
> 
> *Chang'an*
> 
> *Great Wall Motors*
> 
> *GEELY*
> 
> *JAC Motors*
> 
> *BYD*
> 
> *SAIC*
> 
> *GAC Group*
> 
> *BAIC*



They are Not Car Manufacturers.

They are Sub-Contractors.


----------



## rott

Banana said:


> Economic Times is the World's Second most visited news website after nytimes. More than CNN and BBC.
> 
> Atleast you will believe Top Gear?
> 
> BBC TopGear Magazine India Car-Reviews - Review: Chevrolet Sail U-VA



Like I said, you're seriously a "BANANA". Your brains seems a bit flawed, is that the reason you believe Economic times to be more credible than T-BHP who had reviewed the car?
Economic times may have the largest views, but do you care? What you care about is technicalities and reviews.

Top gear is biased towards anything British, that's a fact. In conjunction with, Top Gear reviews top end cars and ACCEPTED Chinese cars are not yet there. But in actuality, Chinese cars aren't a bucket of bolts at the same time. 
Last but not the least, stop being a Banana and start being unbiased towards anything not Indian.

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## kawaraj

Certainly below the bar of Japanese makers, but catching up fast.

I saw a couple of Great Wall convertibles when i made the trip to M.E., quite durable in deserts.


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## khanboy007

in *Top Gear (BBC) Series 18, Episode 2 aired on 5 February 2012* it was stated by james and jeremy that in 5 years time china may bring its automobile industry to the top !!!!!

perhaps now is not the right time we may see them dominating the roads *2017*

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## shuttler

Banana said:


> They are Not Car Manufacturers.
> 
> They are Sub-Contractors.



another indian put-downs! But all these antics do not make indian car makers any better than us.

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## shuttler

theniubt said:


> California City to Buy Chinese Electric Buses
> 
> No indian junks to be seen on US roads anytime soon.



These electric coaches have landed in Europe and many other places in the world:

*BYD to begin making electric buses in California, delivers 6 electric buses in the Netherlands*

3 May 2013

More here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/242319-byd-gains-permission-sell-e-buses-eu.html

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## Jackdaws

rott said:


> You've made a rather useless effort. You compare economic times to Team BHP?
> T-BHP is the most trusted Indian site ever. Economic times has no clue about technicalities. Now I understand as to why you named yourself as "BANANA"
> 
> Here you go
> 
> Click here



For the record - both of you are partly right. The MultiJet engine was designed jointly by Fiat and GM - a striped down version also does service in the Indian manufactured Chevrolet Beat.


----------



## jhungary

rott said:


> 1. The thing about you is Anti-Chinese
> 2. We are talking about VFM cars.
> 3. We are well aware Chinese cars are not yet among the well established brands.
> 4. Cheap doesn't mean a bucket of bolts. It's still VFM.
> 5. Chery, SAIC and GW will be up there with the best in a decade.
> 6. You're a F***ing idiot!



1.) I did not say you want a cheap car, you go buy Chinese car, it's those guy from Top Gear say that. If you care to look at the video I quote on top gear, this is what they say

"May and Clarkson themselves drive the two cars around Beijing and conclude that these cars seem to be much closer to what they should be compared to previous offerings, but still not up to standards in developed markets."

"If you bear that price different in mind and ignore the gear box, it really not too bad" - Jermey Clarkson @6.18
"*Will you buy a Trumchi*?" - May, "*Only if it was very cheap*" - Jermey Clarkson @ 6.45

Top Gear (series 18) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The car although is not up to their standard, but for that price, it's more than compensated it.

2.) Value for Money as I said, is not bad, they are of bad standard, but they are also dirt cheap, hence I said, if you just want a car and don't care about driving quality, get a Chinese Car.

3.) Well, glad you aware of this

4.) Check reply at 2 for comment, I am not gonna say it again

5.) Come back and tell me when they are improved. I only interested on Car quality now, not car quality 10 years from now.

6.) And you are a fanboy.........


----------



## Nan Yang

Jackdaws said:


> I am surprised with all the talk about car manufacturing, no one has yet brought up what in my opinion is Mahindra's best bet in the long run - the e2o
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is an electric vehicle - something the world needs. Granted that the best innovation in electric cars has come from Tesla Motors in the US but this is quite astounding given that this car costs less than 1/5th of what a Tesla costs. Running costs is just 63 paise / km
> 
> Tata too has invested heavily in EVs. They are the future - not the gas guzzlers.



BYD Delivers E6 Electric Cars for Taxi Service in Hong Kong






> Hong Kong's Financial Secretary John Tsang inserts a charger into a BYD e6 Electric Car during a launch ceremony for the line of vehicles, which will be used as taxis, in Hong Kong, May 15, 2013. Forty-five of BYD's e6 Electric Cars will follow in the footsteps of Shenzhen and progressively join the fleet of taxis on Hong Kong's roads starting this month, the company said on Wednesday.

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## Alfa-Fighter

shuttler said:


> another indian put-downs! But all these antics do not make indian car makers any better than us.


 tell this to yourself in your country , they are one who gonna believe , rest of world not as Chinese are not.


----------



## Banana

shuttler said:


> another indian put-downs! But all these antics do not make indian car makers any better than us.



BS.

India Cars are better engineered and have better quality build than the Chinese ones.


----------



## shuttler

Alfa-Fighter said:


> tell this to yourself in your country , they are one who gonna believe , rest of world not as Chinese are not.



We dont need to tell anyone. Our cars sell themselves and keep improving
Match that incapable cheerleaders!



Banana said:


> BS.
> 
> India Cars are better engineered and have better quality build than the Chinese ones.



another delusional cheerleading indians! Go on smoking with your chillum.

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## Banana

shuttler said:


> We dont need to tell anyone. Our cars sell themselves and keep improving
> Match that incapable cheerleaders!
> 
> 
> 
> another delusional cheerleading indians! Go on smoking with your chillum.



How many proofs do Chinese need to quash their stupidity?

Like that Chinese who believes a post by some member in Team-BHP more than ET and Topgear. 

Reviews from Developed Markets show that Indian Cars are Miles ahead of Chinese.


----------



## shuttler

Banana said:


> How many proofs do Chinese need to quash their stupidity?
> 
> Like that Chinese who believes a post by some member in Team-BHP more than ET and Topgear.
> 
> Reviews from Developed Markets show that Indian Cars are Miles ahead of Chinese.



b/s! how many cars have you sold overseas that are indigenous indians?

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## shuttler

GDan said:


> It does look very nice, but that car(The Fisker Karma) was designed by a Danish man working for an American carmaker and was manufactured in Finland. It is definitely not Chinese.



It aint matter soon we'll be their and dont cry over it if you lose your job even in designing. This is the best evidence for us to save the western world from brink of bankruptcies.


----------



## shuttler

Beerbal said:


> What is the point in opening such thread, We all know China rely on quantity. We all know there quality is pathetic.
> 
> 
> No one buy chines product for quality, we all buy coz its cheap...
> 
> Movie "126 hours": Franco was trying to cut his hand (as it was trapped into heavy rock), the knife betrayed him, the actor quoting in movie "Never buy chinese products, they always betray you"..
> 
> Its universal truth...



Haha you jealous incapable cheerleaders get sour yet again about our products which have been selling to the rest of the world for more than 3 decades and still going strong.

.

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## shuttler

Banana said:


> It sells because it is a Chevy.
> 
> Not SAIC. SAIC is just a sub-contractor for Chevy, Buick, Cadillac and now Opel.
> 
> *Sail is built from GMs resources*. Chinese brands would not even qualify to sell in India.



indian cars are sub contractors of foreign car-makers. look at yourselves in a mirror

SAIL is built from a SAIC+GM JV plant in China.

indian car makers cant get qualified to mop floors in China

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## rott

jhungary said:


> Each brand of Car in the world have their own representation.
> 
> If you wans slick, stylish supercar, you go for European
> If you want Horse power drag racer, you go for American
> If you want fuel for your mileage and maintenance proof, you go for Japanese car
> If you want a cheap car, you go for Chinese
> 
> *Chinese car is bad*, honestly, but they are also cheap, you cannot expect for a price 10k cheaper and you have the same driving quality with Australian car
> 
> Just look at this you tube and you will see those Top gear guy rating Chinese car



Those were your exact words. 

but....

*Cheap doesn't mean bad*. It's *VFM*.

The thing is, you're annoyed with anything Chinese. Notice all your post in this forum. Most, if not all are Anti-Chinese.
Is it because you're swedish and volvo is taken over by Geely?
I don't recall any swedish having any beef with a Chinese except you.



shuttler said:


> We dont need to tell anyone. Our cars sell themselves and keep improving
> Match that incapable cheerleaders!
> 
> 
> 
> another delusional cheerleading indians! Go on smoking with your chillum.



He's gone bananas, you can't save him.

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## jhungary

rott said:


> Those were your exact words.
> 
> but....
> 
> *Cheap doesn't mean bad*. It's *VFM*.
> 
> The thing is, you're annoyed with anything Chinese. Notice all your post in this forum. Most, if not all are Anti-Chinese.
> Is it because you're swedish and volvo is taken over by Geely?
> I don't recall any swedish having any beef with a Chinese except you.
> 
> 
> 
> He's a banana, you can't save him.



First of all, I am also a Chinese, and no I do not have an Anti-Chinese view.

I did not say Chinese car is not Value for money, actually I did say Chinese car is REALLY VERY value for money, a point even Jeremy Clarkson also share. I said, you don't expect the quality to be good if you are willing to buy a car 10 grand less than the others.

if I want car advice and I have to choose between you and Jeremy Clarkson, I will choose Jeremy Clarkson everytime


----------



## rott

jhungary said:


> First of all, I am also a Chinese, and no I do not have an Anti-Chinese view.
> 
> I did not say Chinese car is not Value for money, actually I did say Chinese car is REALLY VERY value for money, a point even Jeremy Clarkson also share. I said, you don't expect the quality to be good if you are willing to buy a car 10 grand less than the others.
> 
> if I want car advice and I have to choose between you and Jeremy Clarkson, I will choose Jeremy Clarkson everytime



But did you or did you not mention "*Chinese car is bad*"?

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## jhungary

rott said:


> But did you or did you not mention "*Chinese car is bad*"?



look like you need a crash course in English.

I said both Chinese car is bad, and Chinese car is VFM. There are no contradiction to each other. Why would there be??

You can have a nice car but selling for relative cheap, or a crap quality car for crap price. Both VFM 

If you expect 23 grand for a new ute, then I would say you expecting a crap car as the next up is 37 grand.

Good value for money, but it's crap. *GOT IT*??

it looks like as if you never even drove a car from your home country before, by the way, not only me calling Chinese car is crap, again, watch what Jeremy clarkson had to say??


----------



## Sergi

It's all about money. What you can afford and what not. 

If you really have to understand the customers opnion on anything remove his budget barrier and give him choice. If he select your car yours is better  if not keep improving


----------



## rott

jhungary said:


> look like you need a crash course in English.
> 
> I said both Chinese car is bad, and Chinese car is VFM. There are no contradiction to each other. Why would there be??
> 
> You can have a nice car but selling for relative cheap, or a crap quality car for crap price. Both VFM
> 
> If you expect 23 grand for a new ute, then I would say you expecting a crap car as the next up is 37 grand.
> 
> Good value for money, but it's crap. *GOT IT*??
> 
> it looks like as if you never even drove a car from your home country before, by the way, not only me calling Chinese car is crap, again, watch what Jeremy clarkson had to say??



Sure, I need a crash course in English from you, right? LOL

Listen up bro, VFM isn't *bad*, VFM isn't *CRAP* as you like to say it. Simply put it's just VFM. Chinese can make it cheap not because the parts are sub-standard, it's because of "cheap labor". 
Where in the world would you get a bowl of noodles for 3 bucks? It's probably 4 or 5 now. And I mean RMB, I give two **** to USDs. 

In about 10 years from now, we'll have this conversation(if you're not 60 presently) lol, till then....


----------



## Banana

shuttler said:


> We dont need to tell anyone. Our cars sell themselves and keep improving
> Match that incapable cheerleaders!
> 
> 
> 
> another delusional cheerleading indians! Go on smoking with your chillum.



Go back few pages and see the discussion with the Pakistani who has thanked you.



shuttler said:


> b/s! how many cars have you sold overseas that are indigenous indians?



Don't bring me Cuba and Iraq.

I can show where Indian Cars trumped Chinese.

e.g.: South Africa, Australia.


----------



## Banana

shuttler said:


> indian cars are sub contractors of foreign car-makers. look at yourselves in a mirror



Indian Cars are made by Indian Companies.

Foreign Cars are made by Foreign Companies.

There is nothing called Chinese Cars. JV Cars are Foreign Cars.



> SAIL is built from a SAIC+GM JV plant in China.
> 
> indian car makers cant get qualified to mop floors in China



Again BS.

I bet Sail is made on a retired dumped old generation platform of GM.

Such details are not in the mainstream. However some dip digging in the technical matter will show you that neither the engine nor the chasis is Chinese. It is Fiat and GM respectively.


----------



## shuttler

The fact is

Chinese cars is not the best but not the worse either
Both Chinese cars are growing and booming, local and overseas
The path that Chinese makers are following are not different from other car makers in Japan, S Korea or else where

So Chinese-Car Bashers STFU!

Constructive advice are welcome!



rott said:


> Sure, I need a crash course in English from you, right? LOL
> 
> Listen up bro, VFM isn't *bad*, VFM isn't *CRAP* as you like to say it. Simply put it's just VFM. Chinese can make it cheap not because the parts are sub-standard, it's because of "cheap labor".
> Where in the world would you get a bowl of noodles for 3 bucks? It's probably 4 or 5 now. And I mean RMB, I give two **** to USDs.
> 
> In about 10 years from now, we'll have this conversation(if you're not 60 presently) lol, till then....



forget about that arsehole. 

that loser claims that
1. he was born in China, probably somewhere in Guangdong. His mother is half Chinese half Vietamese
2. he migrated to HK then usa
3. he taught English to class of new immigrants, probably in Chinatown Manhattan
4. He was enlisted and served in Iraq and Afghanistan, killing Muslims
5. He has stationed in other countries like Australia
6. He is the top Chinese basher. He wanted repeatedly to kill Chinese en-masse on PDF
7. He is a nuthead!

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## Banana

rott said:


> Sure, I need a crash course in English from you, right? LOL
> 
> Listen up bro, VFM isn't *bad*, VFM isn't *CRAP* as you like to say it. Simply put it's just VFM. Chinese can make it cheap not because the parts are sub-standard, it's because of "cheap labor".
> Where in the world would you get a bowl of noodles for 3 bucks? It's probably 4 or 5 now. And I mean RMB, I give two **** to USDs.
> 
> In about 10 years from now, we'll have this conversation(if you're not 60 presently) lol, till then....



Price is not even the concern.

What @jhungary is saying is that your build quality and engineered cars are not even worth considering.


----------



## shuttler

Banana said:


> Indian Cars are made by Indian Companies.
> 
> Foreign Cars are made by Foreign Companies.
> 
> There is nothing called Chinese Cars. JV Cars are Foreign Cars.
> 
> 
> 
> Again BS.
> 
> I bet Sail is made on a retired dumped old generation platform of GM.
> 
> Such details are not in the mainstream. However some dip digging in the technical matter will show you that neither the engine nor the chasis is Chinese. It is Fiat and GM respectively.



suck up your bullshits

what is suzuki doing in india

There are more Chinese brand motor vehilcles that are made in China and sold worldwide than cr@ppy indian road-moppers!



Banana said:


> Price is not even the concern.
> 
> What @jhungary is saying is that your build quality and engineered cars are not even worth considering.



that j hungary moron is a nuthead.

only incapable cheerleading indians welcome him to join their cheerleading team

quality and engineering are very poor in indian made cars

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## Banana

shuttler said:


> suck up your bullshits
> 
> what is suzuki doing in india
> 
> There are more Chinese brand motor vehilcles that are made in China and sold worldwide than cr@ppy indian road-moppers!



Maruti Suzuki is a subsidiary of Japanese Automaker Suzuki.

Indian brands have better brand recall, are at a higher pedestal than Chinese brands (Do they even exist?) int he Automotive World.


----------



## CorporateAffairs

> Chinese cars still below par



100%, did you see the new chevy enjoy? Simply YUCKKKKK 



shuttler said:


> suck up your bullshits
> 
> what is suzuki doing in india
> 
> There are more Chinese brand motor vehilcles that are made in China and sold worldwide than cr@ppy indian road-moppers!
> 
> quality and engineering are very poor in indian made cars



Except the crappy Chinese made chevy cars, we do not have any chinese cars in India. And except Cruze all other chevy cars a big flop. As we (Indians) treat chinese products as scrap (best example, latest chevy enjoy), we dont even bother about your cars!


----------



## shuttler

Banana said:


> Maruti Suzuki is a subsidiary of Japanese Automaker Suzuki.
> 
> Indian brands have better brand recall, are at a higher pedestal than Chinese brands (Do they even exist?) int he Automotive World.



suzuki-maruti sells better than cheap poor quality indian brand nano

no one even the very poor will buy indian cars. They prefer buying a bicycle than a cr@p nano or maruti



CorporateAffairs said:


> 100%, did you see the new chevy enjoy? Simply YUCKKKKK
> 
> Except the crappy Chinese made chevy cars, we do not have any chinese cars in India. And except Cruze all other chevy cars a big flop. As we (Indians) treat chinese products as scrap (best example, latest chevy enjoy), we dont even bother about your cars!



poor indians dont have money to buy quality products that cost more! they pay 1 rupee hoping to get a kilo of gold

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## sms

CorporateAffairs said:


> 100%, did you see the new chevy enjoy? Simply YUCKKKKK
> 
> 
> 
> Except the crappy Chinese made chevy cars, we do not have any chinese cars in India. And except Cruze all other chevy cars a big flop. As we (Indians) treat chinese products as scrap (best example, latest chevy enjoy), we dont even bother about your cars!



Chevy is not Chinese car, it's GM brand and manufactured and sold by GM. 

Also some of Chevy cars were originally designed by Daewoo Motors bought by GM. They sell some of them under brand name Buick in China and Chevy in India.

As far as Chinese car quality is concerned they are not at par with western cars and might be below par compare to some Indian Cars (i might be biased here)

But when it comes to motor cycles China is no where near to bikes produced in India.

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## shuttler

sms said:


> Chevy is not Chinese car, it's GM brand and manufactured and sold by GM.
> 
> Also some of Chevy cars were originally designed by Daewoo Motors bought by GM. They sell some of them under brand name Buick in China and Chevy in India.
> 
> As far as Chinese car quality is concerned they are not at par with western cars and might be below par compare to some Indian Cars (i might be biased here)
> 
> But when it comes to motor cycles China is no where near to bikes produced in India.



SAIC-GM's SAIL is no different from any indian+foreign JVs except SAIL is manufactured in China
Why GM doesnt even bother to set up a plant in india for SAIL? Simple - POOR indian engineering, techniques, workmanships and work ethics!

indian car sucks!

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## CorporateAffairs

sms said:


> Chevy is not Chinese car, it's GM brand and manufactured and sold by GM.



SMS, GM is a US brand. However, now all chevy cras are now, manufactured in China with its low and poor quality materials.


----------



## grey boy 2

I don't understand why a "midget" in auto industrial got the nerve to compare to the top 2 auto industrial "giant" on the planet? have some basic self-respect and come back to earth please





*VS *

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## CorporateAffairs

shuttler said:


> suzuki-maruti sells better than cheap poor quality indian brand nano



 Suzuki India is not the owner of Nano

Know the facts and just dont troll 



shuttler said:


> no one even the very poor will buy indian cars. They prefer buying a bicycle than a cr@p nano or maruti
> poor indians dont have money to buy quality products that cost more! they pay 1 rupee hoping to get a kilo of gold



Yes, India is a poor country, nobody is denying it. Our roads have tiny suzuki, tata, mahindra cars along with BMWs, Audis, Jaguars, Porches, Land Rovers, Ferrais.

We are not China to drive away or kill poor people from our country. INDIA a TRUE DEMOCRATIC country, we proud of it


----------



## shuttler

CorporateAffairs said:


> SMS, GM is a US brand. However, now all chevy cras are now, manufactured in China with its low and poor quality materials.



poor quality materials?

we have the best material science engineers in the world! where are the incapable sheerleading indians ranked?

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## CorporateAffairs

shuttler said:


> Why GM doesnt even bother to set up a plant in india for SAIL? Simple - POOR indian engineering, techniques, workmanships and work ethics!





Hyundai, Ford, Honda, Toyota are now exporting cars manufactured in India to other asian countries including china 



shuttler said:


> poor quality materials?
> 
> we have the best material science engineers in the world! where are the incapable sheerleading indians ranked?



All chinese products are B-GRADE and FAKE products.

BTW, our Indian manufactured tyres are world famous than your fake chinese tyres.


----------



## Developereo

Banana said:


> Indian brands have better brand recall, are at a higher pedestal than Chinese brands (Do they even exist?) int he Automotive World.



That is not true in Australia.

Chinese cars haven't established a solid reputation yet, but Indian cars are utterly unknown.

No one, except some Indian expats, even knows or cares that India makes cars.

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## shuttler

CorporateAffairs said:


> Suzuki India is not the owner of Nano
> 
> Know the facts and just dont troll
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, India is a poor country, nobody is denying it. Our roads have tiny suzuki, tata, mahindra cars



poor country but very arrogant out of horrendous proportions

suzuki - japanese
tata, mahindra - better than bicycles because they have 4 wheels



> along with BMWs, Audis, Jaguars, Porches, Land Rovers, Ferrais.



on this category, China has its foreign brands. What is the whole indians+other suckers cheering about on the thread!



> We are not China to drive away or kill poor people from our country. INDIA a TRUE DEMOCRATIC country, we proud of it



indian democracy - haha everyone knows what it is - just like indian cars
your people die on a very large scale out of many indigenous causes unique to india each year.
Take the statistics and come to this board again to report the no of indians killed by SAIC-GM made cars

We build cars to enhance quality of our lives.

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## CorporateAffairs

Developereo said:


> That is not true in Australia.
> 
> Chinese cars haven't established a solid reputation yet, but Indian cars are utterly unknown.
> 
> No one, except some Indian expats, even knows or cares that India makes cars.





Buddy, Are you an expat in Oz? Can you plz share your experiences?


----------



## shuttler

CorporateAffairs said:


> Hyundai, Ford, Honda, Toyota are now exporting cars manufactured in India to other asian countries including china



so what is your cheerleading whinging about SAIC-GM selling cars in india?





> All chinese products are B-GRADE and FAKE products.
> 
> BTW, our Indian manufactured tyres are world famous than your fake chinese tyres.



You ignorant troll! What is the size of indians export per annum compared to China, year on year?

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## CorporateAffairs

shuttler said:


> poor country but very arrogant out of horrendous proportions
> 
> suzuki - japanese
> tata, mahindra - better than bicycles because they have 4 wheels



We at least have indigenous Tata and Mahindra. What about you guys? Other than JVs. can you SPELL indigenous chinese cars?



shuttler said:


> so what is your cheerleading whinging about SAIC-GM selling cars in india?
> You ignorant troll! What is the size of indians export per annum compared to China, year on year?



Yes, FAKE and IMITATED products have larger markets than ORIGINAL products

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## Developereo

CorporateAffairs said:


>



It is not off-topic.
The claim was that Indian car brands have better brand recognition in the automotive world. It is simply not true in Australia.



CorporateAffairs said:


> Buddy, Are you an expat in Oz? Can you plz share your experiences?



Great Wall is known and selling in Australia. It targets a specific market niche, not the high end.

Maruti is unknown.
Nano is unknown.

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## shuttler

CorporateAffairs said:


> We at least have indigenous Tata and Mahindra. What about you guys? Other than JVs. can you SPELL indigenous chinese cars?



*



indigenous Tata and Mahindra

Click to expand...

*
low quality indigenuity. How many of those indian brands are exported?

My post @94 has listed our indigenous car makers who are selling worldwide!




> Yes, FAKE and IMITATED products have larger markets than ORIGINAL products



get out of here troll. india is not in the same league, not even close. eat this!

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## Mujraparty



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## shuttler

eowyn said:


>



what is you south/north america crash test records, incapable indians?

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## Developereo

It's a pointless argument.

Both Chinese and Indian cars are relatively new entrants and have a tough time competing with established brands. On the plus side, both countries are improving quality so, in the end, competition is good for the consumer.

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## shuttler

Developereo said:


> It's a pointless argument.
> 
> Both Chinese and Indian cars are relatively new entrants and have a tough time competing with established brands. On the plus side, both countries are improving quality so, in the end, competition is good for the consumer.



exactly!

what the silly barrage of attacks by the indian cheerleaders on the quality of our cars are unbelievable

their own cars are unknown or not known for quality. Probably this is one area of hi-tech they thought they could excel over us seeing we are seldom mentioning the advent and news of our auto industry on PDF

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## haviZsultan

Quality will gradually improve as the nation advances economically. Economic growth also comes with increased assertiveness so if we see China heavily advocating its interests in the international arena then we shouldn't be surprised. Sub standard cars may still be common in China but the country is advancing at lightning pace.

We from Pakistan wish China luck with its growth

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## Banana

shuttler said:


> suzuki-maruti sells better than cheap poor quality indian brand nano
> 
> no one even the very poor will buy indian cars. They prefer buying a bicycle than a cr@p nano or maruti
> 
> 
> 
> poor indians dont have money to buy quality products that cost more! they pay 1 rupee hoping to get a kilo of gold



Nano is a Great Car.

Suzuki sells but not on the cars, but on after sales service and resale value.



shuttler said:


> SAIC-GM's SAIL is no different from any indian+foreign JVs except SAIL is manufactured in China
> Why GM doesnt even bother to set up a plant in india for SAIL? Simple - POOR indian engineering, techniques, workmanships and work ethics!
> 
> indian car sucks!



India has Indian Manufacturers and Foreign Manufacturers.

China has JVs. In a JV, Foreign Company brings in everything while Chinese Partner bribes CPC and brings approvals, nothing else.


----------



## Banana

grey boy 2 said:


> I don't understand why a "midget" in auto industrial got the nerve to compare to the top 2 auto industrial "giant" on the planet? have some basic self-respect and come back to earth please
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *VS *



Which Auto Industrial Giant Company has China got?

Don't get those Sub Contractors again!

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## shuttler

Banana said:


> Nano is a Great Car.
> 
> Suzuki sells but not on the cars, but on after sales service and resale value.



narcissi comment. 
there we have hope knowing our short comings and then the improvement!

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## Banana

shuttler said:


> poor quality materials?
> 
> we have the best material science engineers in the world! where are the incapable sheerleading indians ranked?



Last heard Qoros is heading to USA to import materials to gain some acceptability in World market.

Chinese Suppliers were Dumped for Failing to meet the Stringent Standards.


----------



## shuttler

Banana said:


> Which Auto Industrial Giant Company has China got?
> 
> Don't get those Sub Contractors again!



get out of here troll!
we are making our own cars selling overseas. indians are their own cheerleaders for their nanos, mahinda, marutis!

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## Banana

Developereo said:


> That is not true in Australia.
> 
> Chinese cars haven't established a solid reputation yet, but Indian cars are utterly unknown.
> 
> No one, except some Indian expats, even knows or cares that India makes cars.



Read properly:



> in the Automotive World.



Automotive World doesn't comprise of Joes on the street.

Car magazines, auto websites, forums, blogs, Motor Shows, etc. Count.


----------



## shuttler

Banana said:


> Last heard Qoros is heading to USA to import materials to gain some acceptability in World market.
> 
> Chinese Suppliers were Dumped for Failing to meet the Stringent Standards.



no need to hear about shi^^y indian products
just give me the indian annual export figures!


----------



## Banana

shuttler said:


> narcissi comment.
> there we have hope knowing our short comings and then the improvement!



Talk about cars.


----------



## shuttler

Banana said:


> Talk about cars.



even about cars!

we know our positions very well! 
cheerleading indians are having massive orgasms out of their poor nano, maruti, mahinda - you have set the lowest level of demand for quality


----------



## Banana

shuttler said:


> no need to hear about shi^^y indian products
> just give me the indian annual export figures!



What a nincompoop you are. 

Qoros is a pseudo-Chinese Brand.

Not Indian.


----------



## Banana

shuttler said:


> even about cars!
> 
> we know our positions very well!
> cheerleading indians are having massive orgasms out of their poor nano, maruti, mahinda - you have set the lowest level of demand for quality



BS.

Mahindra, Tata Motors have more Brand Recognition, Awareness than any Chinese Brands.

In Automotive Circles, they are Respected more than Chinese ones.

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## Beerbal

shuttler said:


> no need to hear about shi^^y indian products
> just give me the indian annual export figures!







In one of my post I mentioned, We buy chinese coz its cost cheaper.. We all know the quality will be pathetic... You can ask mods to ban me, but this (chinese products are of cheap quality and cheaper in cost) is universal truth...

Either world is lying or it is truth... Ur export is high coz the cost is 10 times lower. 

I recall one incident, The chinese telecom company was selling eNodeB (4th generation base station) with an offer "Buy one get one free"....


----------



## CorporateAffairs

shuttler said:


> we know our positions very well! - you have set the lowest level of demand for quality



You know what, Buddy?  

In India Chinese products are sold on footpaths and besides drainage, which carry a banner stating "*CHEAP CHINESE PRODUCTS, NO WARRANTY, BUY AT YOUR RISK*"!!

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## walle

A lot of trolling, here in Australia Chinese cars outsell Indian cars despite being a late comer to the market. About 900 greatwall is sold every month vs almost zero for manhindra (no one knows it exist to be frank). The figures is also expected to rise, the sales figure speak for themselves, despite what Indian has to say here Chinese car maker is certainly doing something better than the Indians.

The importer for Australian great wall was the same company that imported hyundai 30 years ago, thus far the GW brand has outgrown hyundai's initial sales figures.

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## CorporateAffairs

walle said:


> A lot of trolling, here in Australia Chinese cars outsell Indian cars despite being a late comer to the market. About 900 greatwall is sold every month vs almost zero for manhindra (no one knows it exist to be frank). The figures is also expected to rise, the sales figure speak for themselves, despite what Indian has to say here Chinese car maker is certainly doing something better than the Indians.
> 
> The importer for Australian great wall was the same company that imported hyundai 30 years ago, thus far the GW brand has outgrown hyundai's initial sales figures.



Meanwhile, here in Luxembourg, we get to see a lot of Scorpios.

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## shuttler

Banana said:


> What a nincompoop you are.
> 
> Qoros is a pseudo-Chinese Brand.
> 
> Not Indian.



I was referring to shi^^y indian products in general Moron!



Banana said:


> BS.
> 
> Mahindra, Tata Motors have more Brand Recognition, Awareness than any Chinese Brands.
> 
> In Automotive Circles, they are Respected more than Chinese ones.




oh narcissistc indians looking at a pool of liquid on the ground seeing the reflection of themselves as queens of the world



Beerbal said:


> In one of my post I mentioned, We buy chinese coz its cost cheaper.. We all know the quality will be pathetic... You can ask mods to ban me, but this (chinese products are of cheap quality and cheaper in cost) is universal truth...
> 
> Either world is lying or it is truth... Ur export is high coz the cost is 10 times lower.
> 
> I recall one incident, The chinese telecom company was selling eNodeB (4th generation base station) with an offer "Buy one get one free"....



cheap products for cheap indians - take it as your motto



CorporateAffairs said:


> You know what, Buddy?
> 
> In India Chinese products are sold on footpaths and besides drainage, which carry a banner stating "*CHEAP CHINESE PRODUCTS, NO WARRANTY, BUY AT YOUR RISK*"!!



I cant help slanders and as a matter of fact, and for a million times I have to repeat this again:

Cheap people buy a 1 indian rupee gadget and want a product warranty. So much at your own indian risks!

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## rott

Banana said:


> Price is not even the concern.
> 
> What @jhungary is saying is that your build quality and engineered cars are not even worth considering.



Considering you're from India. I know what Indian cars are capable of. I once had a TATA Safari, 2.2 VTT Engine, 140 BHP (diesel variant) 
Unlike you, I am not here to bash Indian cars. You're biased to almost everything Chinese. 

Safari is an amazing car for long drives. It's suspension was worth mentioning, but the interiors are not up to the mark. Believe me, I've driven this car all the way from kanya Kumari to Ladakh. It has given me no problems except for a tire change. Now, what people look at in a car? Safety? Isn't it the Numero 1 priority?

Except for Mahindra XUV500, show me a single video which any Indian cars attained more than 4 stars in the ANCAP test. 
Please don't post a video of Nano crash test, that's not even considered to be half a car. 

XUV 500

Great Wall Crash test

Mitsubishi Pajero

We are getting there. We don't need 10 years, but I am just being modest.


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## shuttler

CorporateAffairs said:


> Meanwhile, here in Luxembourg, we get to see a lot of Scorpios.



tell us the numbers troll. 1 or 2 means a lot?

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## Beerbal

shuttler said:


> I was referring to shi^^y indian products in general Moron!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh narcissistc indians looking at a pool of liquid on the ground seeing the reflection of themselves as queens of the world
> 
> 
> 
> cheap products for cheap indians - take it as your motto
> 
> 
> 
> I cant help slanders and as a matter of fact, and for a million times I have to repeat this again:
> 
> Cheap people buy a 1 indian rupee gadget and want a product warranty. So much at your own indian risks!







Son, There are two kind of ppl...
1. Who look for quality
2. for qhom quality doesn't matter, it has to be cheap..

Indian majorily fall in second category, But since last decade ppl are shifting to category one...

.
.
.
India own Cars/Bikes

Jaguar Land Rover...
KTM Duke..
Sanyong ...
Rexton...
Dawoo..

etc....


----------



## rott

CorporateAffairs said:


> Suzuki India is not the owner of Nano
> 
> Know the facts and just dont troll



Your inability to grasp English is at the same level as your brains? Where did he mention Suzuki/Maruti Suzuki is the manufacturer of Nano?

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## rcrmj

CorporateAffairs said:


> You know what, Buddy?
> 
> In India Chinese products are sold on footpaths and besides drainage, which carry a banner stating "*CHEAP CHINESE PRODUCTS, NO WARRANTY, BUY AT YOUR RISK*"!!



so i guess all your factories and banks bought those chinese machineries, data processors and power generators from those footpaths and small allies````lol low IQ things with funny delusion``

in 2013 WIPO nations' competitiveness annual report which categorised India as primitive factor driven society with sub-Sahara standard HDI```

and yet those low IQ creatures talking about their cars`? lol

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## rott

Banana said:


> BS.
> 
> Mahindra, Tata Motors have more Brand Recognition, Awareness than any Chinese Brands.
> 
> In Automotive Circles, they are Respected more than Chinese ones.



Nice joke!!! Now can we get serious?

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## shuttler

Beerbal said:


> .
> India own Cars/Bikes
> 
> Jaguar Land Rover...
> KTM Duke..
> Sanyong ...
> Rexton...
> Dawoo..
> 
> etc....



*Jaguar Land Rover...* british cars
*KTM Duke..* Australian bikes american company
*Sanyong *... s korean cars
*Rexton...* s korean
*Dawoo..* south korean

what is your point?

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## rcrmj

CorporateAffairs said:


> Meanwhile, here in Luxembourg, we get to see a lot of Scorpios.



and mostly run by those indian corner shopers in Luxembourg``probably those came alone with those illegal indian immigrants in those containers built by the Chinese

so i reckon the number wont be great``

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## rott

eowyn said:


>



That's not a Chinese car. That's a troll branding a Chinese Car. All Chinese cars have Airbags in the crash test. You fail!!!!

   


This is the capability of Chinese Geely not the one you posted above.

Watch


----------



## CorporateAffairs

rcrmj said:


> so i guess all your factories and banks bought those chinese machineries, data processors and power generators from those footpaths and small allies````lol low IQ things with funny delusion``
> 
> in 2013 WIPO nations' competitiveness annual report which categorised India as primitive factor driven society with sub-Sahara standard HDI```
> 
> and yet those low IQ creatures talking about their cars`? lol



No big business establishments in India use chinese machinery 



rcrmj said:


> and mostly run by those indian corner shopers in Luxembourg``probably those came alone with those illegal indian immigrants in those containers built by the Chinese
> 
> so i reckon the number wont be great``



Same applies to chinese cars in Oz. Guess, the chinese chefs and cooks, and other laundry guys from china bought those cars 

BTW, chinese immigrants are equal to Indians in Oz. May be lack of indepandence in China has driven them out

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## Mujraparty

rott said:


> That's not a Chinese car. That's a troll branding a Chinese Car. All Chinese cars have Airbags in the crash test. You fail!!!!



that's Geely CK1 u ******* moron ..







China car maker Geely fails safety tests scoring 0 out of 5

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## rott

CorporateAffairs said:


> No big business establishments in India use chinese machinery
> 
> 
> 
> Same applies to chinese cars in Oz. Guess, the chinese chefs and cooks, and other laundry guys from china bought those cars
> 
> BTW, chinese immigrants are equal to Indians in Oz. May be lack of indepandence in China has driven them out



Is that the reason Indians are beaten up by the locals black and blue? Killed if necessary?



eowyn said:


> that's Geely CK1 u ******* moron ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China car maker Geely fails safety tests scoring 0 out of 5



And you're a ******* idiot.

Also that's almost a 4 year old video **** face.

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## Götterdämmerung

eowyn said:


> that's Geely CK1 u ******* moron ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China car maker Geely fails safety tests scoring 0 out of 5



The 2010 crashtest was a desaster, but just one year later the same company got an NCAP 4 star.

Here is an article from our biggest China-basher media group. Even they were surprised at the fast improvement.
Crashtest Euro NCAP: MG6/Geely Emgrand EC7 - autobild.de

BTW, putting India and industrial manufacturing together is a joke of the century.

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## CorporateAffairs

rott said:


> Is that the reason Indians are beaten up by the locals black and blue? Killed if necessary?



But not shot dead by government (chinese army killed its own students)


----------



## rott

CorporateAffairs said:


> But not shot dead by government (chinese army killed its own students)



You mean the Jallianwalla bagh massacre?


----------



## grey boy 2

CorporateAffairs said:


> *No big business establishments in India use chinese machinery*



Don't talk out of your butt, show the readers "FACTS" not "TRASH" please, I guess "Equipment for Power plants, Mining and Major projects" must be for "SMALL business" in India?












> BTW, hope you guys understood some basic concept of business=Cheap products for Cheap people, 3rd grade products for 3rd world hole, anyway thankyou for your business, you're one of the best customer on our "SUCKERS" list.

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## CorporateAffairs

rott said:


> You mean the Jallianwalla bagh massacre?



That was done by the British 

now, i know why you guys always fail miserably at history 



grey boy 2 said:


> Don't talk out of your butt, show the readers "FACTS" not "TRASH" please, I guess "Equipment for Power plants, Mining and Major projects" must be for "SMALL business" in India?



facts always frustrate you buddy


----------



## Banana

shuttler said:


> I was referring to shi^^y indian products in general Moron!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh narcissistc indians looking at a pool of liquid on the ground seeing the reflection of themselves as queens of the world



Cars are the most Complex Consumer Products.

India fares better than China.


----------



## gslv mk3

rott said:


> Except for Mahindra XUV500, show me a single video which any Indian cars attained more than 4 stars in the ANCAP test.
> *Please don't post a video of Nano crash test, that's not even considered to be half a car. *



Tata vista,safari mahindra reva,scorpio etc are sold in europe...haha

And for the bolded part 

coz your luxury cars could not pass the test??


----------



## gslv mk3

Tata Hybrid Buses @spain

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## Götterdämmerung

gslv mk3 said:


> Tata vista,safari mahindra reva,scorpio etc are sold in europe...haha
> 
> And for the bolded part



I couldn't find one dealer selling Indian brand cars in my region.


----------



## Banana

Götterdämmerung;4352109 said:


> The 2010 crashtest was a desaster, but just one year later the same company got an NCAP 4 star.
> 
> Here is an article from our biggest China-basher media group. Even they were surprised at the fast improvement.
> Crashtest Euro NCAP: MG6/Geely Emgrand EC7 - autobild.de
> 
> BTW, putting India and industrial manufacturing together is a joke of the century.



Funny thing is parts of India industrialized way before Germany and Japan.

And They are much ahead on the curve atleast than China.


----------



## gslv mk3

Some Indian cars

XUV 500







Already sold in Australia,soon to be launched in Italy,chile and south africa






cash test video



Götterdämmerung;4352216 said:


> I couldn't find one dealer selling Indian brand cars in my region.



I dont think you can find them in germany...try italy,UK


----------



## INDIC

eowyn said:


> that's Geely CK1 u ******* moron ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China car maker Geely fails safety tests scoring 0 out of 5



It isn't surprising at all.

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## Götterdämmerung

Banana said:


> Funny thing is parts of India industrialized way before Germany and Japan.
> 
> And They are much ahead on the curve atleast than China.



ORLY?

Where is your Siemens, Krupp, Thyssen, Bayer, BASF, Daimler, BMW, VW, Leica, Hoechst and the hundred thousands of medium sized companies producing cutting edge products?

Indian ahead of China? Where is your Lenovo, Huawei, Haier, BGI, Great Wall, TCL, BYD?



gslv mk3 said:


> Some Indian cars
> 
> XUV 500
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Already sold in Australia,soon to be launched in Italy,chile and south africa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cash test video
> 
> 
> 
> I dont think you can find them in germany...try italy,UK



Germany is the benchmark in Europe and the world!

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## rcrmj

CorporateAffairs said:


> That was done by the British
> 
> now, i know why you guys always fail miserably at history
> 
> 
> 
> *facts always frustrate you buddy*



lol, pathetic people are fun to play with```you keep enjoying your delusion, while we just keep selling machines, power generators, cars, motors, computers and data processors to you and in return we buy all you resources with dead cheap price, so your debt can keep spiralling up```

you know at the end day India is still a primitive factor driven slum

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## gslv mk3

rcrmj said:


> lol, pathetic people are fun to play with```you keep enjoying your delusion, while we just keep selling machines, *power generators*, *cars*, motors, computers and data processors to you and in return we buy all you resources with dead cheap price, so your debt can keep spiralling up```
> 
> you know at the end day India is still a primitive factor driven slum




My god!!!


----------



## INDIC

Götterdämmerung;4352234 said:


> ORLY?
> 
> Where is your Siemens, Krupp, Thyssen, Bayer, BASF, Daimler, BMW, VW, Leica, Hoechst and the hundred thousands of medium sized companies producing cutting edge products?
> 
> Indian ahead of China? Where is your Lenovo, Huawei, Haier, BGI, Great Wall, TCL, BYD?



None of them are well-known Chinese automobile brand.


----------



## gslv mk3

Götterdämmerung;4352234 said:


> ORLY?
> Germany is the benchmark in Europe and the world!



there is still a longway to go for India to reach that level


----------



## rcrmj

gslv mk3 said:


> My god!!!


see post 178```i know high caste fedual rullers in India dont want those low life disposals to know the reality`

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## Mujraparty

Pretty sure none of chines made junks can survive this ..







action @ 5.28 (xenon just drags the tractor away )

**** yea...


----------



## gslv mk3

rcrmj said:


> see post 178```i know high caste fedual rullers in India dont want those low life disposals to know the reality`



you sell cars to india?really?

tata indica EV 

http://www.owningelectriccar.com/tata-indica-vista-ev.html






some concepts


----------



## rott

CorporateAffairs said:


> That was done by the British
> 
> now, i know why you guys always fail miserably at history
> 
> 
> 
> facts always frustrate you buddy



Weren't the British your Government then? Now who failed? 



Banana said:


> Funny thing is parts of India industrialized way before Germany and Japan.
> 
> And They are much ahead on the curve atleast than China.



Good joke, keep 'em coming.

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## AnnoyingOrange

rott said:


> Weren't the British your Government then? Now who failed?
> 
> 
> 
> Good joke, keep 'em coming.




Chinese logic...Heads I win...Tails you lose.


----------



## shuttler

Banana said:


> Cars are the most Complex Consumer Products.
> India fares better than China.





> India fares better than China



Narcissisitic comment. Tell me how many indigenous cars have you exported in 2012?

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## rott

AnnoyingOrange said:


> Chinese logic...Heads I win...Tails you lose.



Why? Does Indian coins have heads on two sides?

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## rcrmj

rott said:


> Why? Does Indian coins have heads on two sides?


anything is possible in their delusion```their primitivemess can not comprehend reality, facts and figures``

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## shuttler

INDIC said:


> None of them are well-known Chinese automobile brand.



we are not able to sell a lot of our cars in Germany except for these:







BYD-to-supply-city-of-frankfurt-with-3-electric-ebus-12s/

But we have sold other products in Germany. where is indians product in Germany, or the world? what is your export figure per year?

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## grey boy 2

gslv mk3 said:


> you sell cars to india?really?



Surprise? ever heard of some weird Indians logic="China Bus...but "Made In India"?



> Not many of us would be aware that china bus are assembled & body built here in India. Recently i had a chance to visit one such facility here in Cochin. The company "Chacks" is engaged in export of China's FAW (First Automotive Works) make buses to gulf region. The buses are brought in CKD form and assembled here, followed by body building. Then they are driven upto Mumbai from where they are shipped to Dubai. Last week 6 buses were dispatched from here. Here are some images of the same.
> These LHD buses are 67seater standard versions (with provision for A/c) used for Staff & School transport.
> 
> "There was a huge market for these buses earlier to economic crises. Last year the demand was very less. But now the market is responding better. But there is stiff competition from the likes of Ashok Leyland. They have recently opened their new plant there", says Mr.Kuruvila, Chacks.























Shanghai Electric Order from India Signals China Export Surge | TopNews
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2009-08/10/content_8548109.htm:china:

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## AnnoyingOrange

No mater how much Chinese posters on PDF cry.. the fact is that:


The country is the world's No 1 auto market in terms of sales, but most of its car brands are contractors of foreign cars and its own products are still below par compared with global competitors, especially in terms of safety and emission standards.
China's indigenous cars are lowest on the food chain


----------



## grey boy 2

shuttler said:


> we are not able to sell a lot of our cars in Germany except for these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BYD-to-supply-city-of-frankfurt-with-3-electric-ebus-12s/
> 
> But we have sold other products in Germany. where is indians product in Germany, or the world? what is your export figure per year?



US too, ignorant Indians need to jump out their well to see what the real world looks like


> A Chinese company that recently won a contract with Long Beach Transit plans to build its all-electric buses in California's Mojave Desert.
> 
> Lancaster Mayor R. Rex Parris and officials of BYD Automotive announced plans Wednesday to open the first Chinese-owned vehicle manufacturing plant in the United States in the wind-swept high-desert city 60 miles northeast of Los Angeles.
> 
> BYD, which opened its North American headquarters in Los Angeles in 2010, says the plant will initially turn out 10 electric buses for the city of Long Beach. It expects the vehicles, with a range of 150 miles between charges, to be delivered next year.
> 
> The $12.1 million Long Beach Transit contract awarded to BYD in late March generated some criticism from its rival American companies and those in the community who felt that the federally funded contract - considered one of the largest federal procurements for electric buses - should have gone to an American company. Some, including rival firm Proterra, called into question the reliability and safety of BYD's product.
> 
> BYD defended its product and spoke of its rigorous testing in China. The Chinese company also has spoken openly of its commitment to Long Beach Transit.



Chinese bus maker that will produce 10 all-electric buses for Long Beach to build them in Lancaster - Press-Telegram

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## Wright

Honestly "great wall" and "Tata" are both very non attractive names for Auto's. 

Great wall sounds more like a construction company.


----------



## shuttler

grey boy 2 said:


> US too, ignorant Indians need to jump out their well to see what the real world looks like
> 
> 
> Chinese bus maker that will produce 10 all-electric buses for Long Beach to build them in Lancaster - Press-Telegram



oh we have sold a lot more of these e-buses than delusional indians can expect:

post #102 and this http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/242319-byd-gains-permission-sell-e-buses-eu.html


----------



## AnnoyingOrange

And not so long ago: Chinese cars recalled over asbestos concerns - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


----------



## Götterdämmerung

INDIC said:


> None of them are well-known Chinese automobile brand.



Of course not. China still has a long way, probably five to ten years. But on the other hand Chinese comapnies have managed to become houshold names in many consumer products in Germany such as Lenovo, Huawei and Haier. 

One thing you have to know, the German market is the most demanding one in the world, the other one is Japan. If you can make it here, you can make it everywhere.



gslv mk3 said:


> there is still a longway to go for India to reach that level



That is a reasonable comment.

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## AnnoyingOrange

China Car Times &#8211; China Auto News | Poor reliability due to immature industry

Read more about CHinese cars and customers suffering http://www.chinacarforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2443


----------



## shuttler

Wright said:


> Honestly "great wall" and "Tata" are both very non attractive names for Auto's.
> 
> Great wall sounds more like a construction company.



I dont find toyota, honda nor chevy, buick attractive either

toyota honda sound like japanese wrestlers
chevy sounds like red indian tribes
buick sounds like a hiccup

tata hmmm it sounds like black tacky stuffs



AnnoyingOrange said:


> And not so long ago: Chinese cars recalled over asbestos concerns - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)



That is common among responsible car makers. are you serious!?


----------



## AnnoyingOrange

Here is the reason why: Special Report: China's car makers cut corners to success | Reuters


----------



## shuttler

AnnoyingOrange said:


> Here is the reason why: Special Report: China's car makers cut corners to success | Reuters






AnnoyingOrange said:


> China Car Times &#8211; China Auto News | Poor reliability due to immature industry
> 
> Read more about CHinese cars and customers suffering Geely cars are Bad Quality: Please Comment - China Car Forums



No problems. We are open for what we are lacking. We are always ahead of india regardless!

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## AnnoyingOrange

And then we have this: Poor-Quality Chinese Mercedes-Benz CLK COPY | German Car Forum


----------



## grey boy 2

AnnoyingOrange said:


> And not so long ago: Chinese cars recalled over asbestos concerns - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)



Seriously, you need to jump out of your well bad, perhaps i'm asking for too much since 97% of you never been anywhere except your land of "GOLD" 

Vehicles recalled happened for every car manufacturers Mr. Dumass

Here is just ONE example out of hundreds 
Japan carmakers recall 3 million vehicles over airbag fault | Business | guardian.co.uk
Japanese Carmakers Recall Millions Of Vehicles Over Faulty Airbags : The Two-Way : NPR

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## shuttler

AnnoyingOrange said:


> And then we have this: Poor-Quality Chinese Mercedes-Benz CLK COPY | German Car Forum



haha another renditions of "Chinese copy" fiasco. They have the courts to settle their scores.

indians cant make their auto spare parts while chest thumping for their poor auto industry:

Tata Motors to purchase auto parts from China - Economic Times

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## AnnoyingOrange

Homage or Ripoff? Chinese Cars that Swing Something Else


----------



## grey boy 2

AnnoyingOrange said:


> And then we have this: Poor-Quality Chinese Mercedes-Benz CLK COPY | German Car Forum



I will trade that any day for being the "biggest FAKE DRUGS LORD" on the planet though


> According to Outsourcing Pharma citing the European Commission, 75% of counterfeit drugs supplied world over have some origins in India, followed by 7% from Egypt and 6% from China



Asia Times Online :: South Asia news, business and economy from India and Pakistan

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## AnnoyingOrange

Not only cars... Chinese Tyre are also poor quality:

*Trebil Customs Dept restores poor-quality materials to China*

Anbar (IraqiNews.com) The Iraqi authorities of Trebil Customs Department at border outlet with Jordon restored electrical devices, car tires, and a lot of food materials to their origin for non-matching the specifications.

A source at the Trebil Customs told IraqiNews.com that &#8220;The Customs Dept of Trebil turned back to the origin country (China) the earlier mentioned materials of 50 tons.&#8221;

&#8220;The process of returning those substances was done in cooperation with the outlet&#8217;s directorate and the Jordanian side because they do not match the specifications and the obligations of the Customs in addition to their failure in the laboratory test,&#8221; the source added.

Trebil Customs Dept restores poor-quality materials to China - IraqiNews.com


----------



## shuttler

AnnoyingOrange said:


> Homage or Ripoff? Chinese Cars that Swing Something Else




keep posting the thorns in western eyes cheerleader. I'll deal with them in one shot! We are expanding our businessese world wide in midst of indian woes!



AnnoyingOrange said:


> Not only cars... Chinese Tyre are also poor quality:
> 
> *Trebil Customs Dept restores poor-quality materials to China*
> 
> Anbar (IraqiNews.com) The Iraqi authorities of Trebil Customs Department at border outlet with Jordon restored electrical devices, car tires, and a lot of food materials to their origin for non-matching the specifications.
> 
> A source at the Trebil Customs told IraqiNews.com that &#8220;The Customs Dept of Trebil turned back to the origin country (China) the earlier mentioned materials of 50 tons.&#8221;
> 
> &#8220;The process of returning those substances was done in cooperation with the outlet&#8217;s directorate and the Jordanian side because they do not match the specifications and the obligations of the Customs in addition to their failure in the laboratory test,&#8221; the source added.
> 
> Trebil Customs Dept restores poor-quality materials to China - IraqiNews.com




and you cant produce your own spare parts

To save face you keep posting occasional hiccups to smear our image. what a loser!


----------



## AnnoyingOrange

And they blame New standards for not meeting quality standards: 

China blames new standards, not poor quality - Business - World business | NBC News

Speaking of Chinese Parts: 

Poor quality brakes blamed for Jiangsu highway death
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20120608000024&cid=1103


----------



## shuttler

AnnoyingOrange said:


> And they blame New standards for not meeting quality standards:
> 
> China blames new standards, not poor quality - Business - World business | NBC News



what is toys to do with a thread on auto industry and the news was reported in 2007!

are you saying you regard your tata mahinda maruti etc as collapsible as toys





> Speaking of Chinese Parts:
> 
> Poor quality brakes blamed for Jiangsu highway death
> Poor quality brakes blamed for Jiangsu highway death



And our spare parts imported by tata motors are the most valuable and quality pcs of parts in the whole shi^^y indian made cars!


----------



## AnnoyingOrange

And the there is a big question: 

Why Haven't Chinese Cars Come to USA? - Forbes

And the answer may be : 

Quality of Chinese cars improving, but lags rivals: survey | Reuters

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...automakers-still-cant-lick-quality-problems/1

Crash Course in Quality for Chinese Car

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118651314364590719.html


----------



## shuttler

AnnoyingOrange said:


> And the there is a big question:
> 
> Why Haven't Chinese Cars Come to USA? - Forbes
> 
> And the answer may be :
> 
> Quality of Chinese cars improving, but lags rivals: survey | Reuters
> 
> Chinese automakers still can't lick quality problems



we are not buutts over our heads like incapable but arrogant indians

we know our positions and we are moving on, one step at a time on solid grounds!


----------



## AnnoyingOrange

Chinese car quality complaints on the rise

Report: Chinese car quality complaints on the rise - Autoblog

In past 30 min...replies from Chinese Posters have been an abuse or a derogatory comment or off topic trash ... but mods will ignore ... No action against them.


----------



## shuttler

AnnoyingOrange said:


> Chinese car quality complaints on the rise
> 
> Report: Chinese car quality complaints on the rise - Autoblog
> 
> In past 30 min...replies from Chinese Posters have been an abuse or a derogatory comment or off topic trash ... but mods will ignore ... No action against them.



report was in 2010 -3 years old. the points have been taken and accumulated somewhere in your above trash reporting above TROLL!


----------



## AnnoyingOrange

So a 2.5 year old report is too old.... I wonder if this holds good while you post anti India links... 

Here is something from 2012:

Why China Isn't Going To Build Cars For The U.S. Anytime Soon


----------



## Audio

Peregrine said:


> True and Fisker Karma is in talks with the Chinese to avoid bankruptcy. So it may very well become Chinese soon.



Fisker Karma is a car. It cannot be in talks with anyone. But nevermind, you listed it as Chinese anyway, even though we don't even know who will invest in it if anyone. The car costs 600.000$ to make and sells at 100.000$. And they already bought the manufacturer of the batteries A123 systems.


+50.


----------



## shuttler

AnnoyingOrange said:


> So a 2.5 year old report is too old.... I wonder if this holds good while you post anti India links...
> 
> Here is something from 2012:
> 
> Why China Isn't Going To Build Cars For The U.S. Anytime Soon



When time comes (our launching in us market) it will be headlines all over the auto media

you arrogant ignorant cheerleading indians cant even build roads - forget about your cars!

Bad Roads in India

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## AnnoyingOrange

GM, Ford, VW Dominate China's Auto Industry: Why Can't Chinese Companies Like SAIC, Dongfeng, Geely, And GAC Make Cars That People Want To Buy?

GM, Ford, VW Dominate China's Auto Industry: Why Can't Chinese Companies Like SAIC, Dongfeng, Geely, And GAC Make Cars That People Want To Buy?

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## shuttler

AnnoyingOrange said:


> GM, Ford, VW Dominate China's Auto Industry: Why Can't Chinese Companies Like SAIC, Dongfeng, Geely, And GAC Make Cars That People Want To Buy?
> 
> GM, Ford, VW Dominate China's Auto Industry: Why Can't Chinese Companies Like SAIC, Dongfeng, Geely, And GAC Make Cars That People Want To Buy?



you are naive and ignorant

cheerleader cant wait to toe the lines

these are standard phases in development

come back and post anything remotely similar to that in 10 years time (being prudent)!

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## gslv mk3

grey boy 2 said:


> Surprise? ever heard of some weird Indians logic="China Bus...but "Made In India"?



*Thats what you could find?Dude..!!..Seriously??

Chinese bodies assembled from CKD by a petty road side bus body manufacturer for usage in middle east??
*
Built from CKD,by a small company called chacks from state of Kerala,in south india...*Our local Bus body builders,located in villages,can make better bodies than this!!You want me to post pics of them??they look a 100 times better than these buses!!!*

Responses from the forum you got those pics

''They dont look better than AL/TM. In fact new Tata Marcopolo school buses and AL A1+ school buses got better fit and finish. No wonder they are loosing maketshare. ''

''These buses are mainly used in the middle east for ferrying labours, they don't have much share when compared with AL and TATA atleast in the UAE.''

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commercial-vehicles-india/84421-china-bus-but-made-india.html

just look at the fit and finish....haha







look at the finish and built of these Indian buses,they command a major share in middle east market...













grey boy 2 said:


> US too, ignorant Indians need to jump out their well to see what the real world looks like








*Tata Hispano Motors Carrocera hybrid buses to run in Madrid*

Mumbai: Tata Hispano Motors Carrocera (Tata Hispano), Tata Motors&#8217; wholly-owned subsidiary in Spain, has won a prestigious order for supplying 10 CNG series hybrid low-floor city buses, to be built on Tata Motors chassis, to EMT Madrid, a Madrid city public transportation company. The buses will be delivered in 2012.

Meant for urban transportation, the Tata Hispano CNG hybrid is powered with a series hybrid system. For a series hybrid vehicle, the engine is not connected to the drive line. Instead it just runs a generator which charges the battery pack at a steady power. The battery pack provides electrical energy to the motor which in turn generates tractive power. Besides, the engine operates on a constant speed, constant load mode, maximising engine efficiency irrespective of large variation in vehicle speed and frequent stops and starts. 

The Tata Hispano CNG hybrid offers substantial improvement in fuel economy and emissions compared to a conventional bus. As a result, the technology leads to lower emissions, thereby contributing to cleaner air and a greener, more environment-friendly, commercial passenger transportation application. The vehicle chassis is capable of being integrated with pure electric mode, CNG micro turbine and hydrogen fuel cell in the future.

The low-floor bus (floor height: 350mm) is equipped with heater, air conditioner, wheelchair, baby seat, space for luggage, security cameras, WiFi, electrical ramp, ticketing machine, reverse camera, electronic display board, electrically-operated in-swing and out-swing doors and kneeling facility allowing easy entry and exit, reducing halt time and trip lengths. Electronically-controlled air suspension and electronic braking provide excellent ride quality, handling and passenger comfort. With high starting and smooth acceleration, and a maximum speed of 70 kilometres per hour, the Tata Hispano hybrid is an innovative solution for fast and comfortable urban transport in an environment-friendly manner.

http://www.tata.com/media/releases/inside.aspx?artid=KXTpD+CeMxc=

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## rott

Here feast on this 5 star NCAP 

Emgrand EC-7


----------



## gslv mk3

shuttler said:


> Narcissisitic comment. Tell me how many indigenous cars have you exported in 2012?



Tata vista,safari,manza,.......
Mahindra scorpio,XUV,getaway,reva...
suzuki alto......and many more..


One more concept for you

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## gslv mk3

shuttler said:


> haha another renditions of "Chinese copy" fiasco. They have the courts to settle their scores.
> 
> indians cant make their auto spare parts while chest thumping for their poor auto industry:
> 
> Tata Motors to purchase auto parts from China - Economic Times



ever heard of globalisation..genius??








rcrmj said:


> see post 178```i know high caste fedual rullers in India dont want those low life disposals to know the reality`



we can manufacture our own cars and power generation equipment



rcrmj said:


> see post 178```i know high caste fedual rullers in India dont want those low life disposals to know the reality`



we can manufacture our own cars and power generation equipment


----------



## Banana

gslv mk3 said:


> comeback when your country can produce a proper car....



Keep the Pakistanis out.


----------



## gslv mk3

Nan Yang said:


> Even good for war !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Battle Proven !



I though it was a toyota hilux at first!!



shuttler said:


> I dont think too many countries will agree to this statement except for the delusional bragging indians


we are much better than chinese in making bikes.Indian bikes are loved in Latin america and south east asia..haha..and take a look at this






http://www.mahindraracing.com/


----------



## gslv mk3

shuttler said:


> p
> suzuki - japanese
> *tata, mahindra - better than bicycles because they have 4 wheels*



haha burn baby burn



> your people die on a very large scale out of many indigenous causes unique to india each year.







> Take the statistics and come to this board again to report the no of indians killed by SAIC-GM made cars



haha,For every chinese member who bost about GM sail,here is a car which was designed in India and sold allover the world








Developereo said:


> Maruti is unknown.
> Nano is unknown.



Maruti suzuki is a Jv,and it is limited to India.Suzuki sells Indian designed cars like Alto,Swift Dzire and X-alpha abroad under the suzuki brand.

Nano wont be launched in such markets,probabily the tata pixel would make it



shuttler said:


> *low quality* indigenuity. How many of those indian brands are exported?



coz they are Indian?


----------



## gslv mk3

Tata Hybrid Technology






leave aside cars and bikes,India makes some awesome Commercial vehicles too..and they are sold around the world!!

Tata prima,tata marcopolo paradiso,tata hispano buses, ashok leyland U-Truck..and the like...(I love heavy vehicles)

*Tata motors is worlds third largest truck manufacturer and second largest bus manufacturer*

Indian cars are sold in UK, Spain, Australia, South Africa, other African nations,Middle East,South America,Malaysia, Indonesia, SAARC countries except Pakistan

and elecric cars ...eh??













Mahindra Revas assembly plant in Bangalore is currently the world's largest operational example of a plant specially dedicated to the assembly of battery electric vehicles.

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## shuttler

gslv mk3 said:


> Tata vista,safari,manza,.......
> Mahindra scorpio,XUV,getaway,reva...
> suzuki alto......and many more..
> 
> 
> One more concept for you



you are wasting bandwidth here cheerleading indians. nobody will bat an eyelid for these boring ill-concept which we have tons better in our plants

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## shuttler

gslv mk3 said:


> ever heard of globalisation..genius??



your globalization = our sales and profits

the same thing wont change however: you are incapable of making your own spare parts

We have better military cars too



> we can manufacture our own cars and power generation equipment



we are exporting them 
what is your annual exports which you cheerleaders are shying away from?

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## shuttler

gslv mk3 said:


> haha burn baby burn



its is a forum thread on cars, not a BBQ party delusional indians. Stay away from chillums



> haha,For every chinese member who bost about GM sail,here is a car which was designed in India and sold allover the world



Buyers can only see the logo which is suzuki




> Maruti suzuki is a Jv,and it is limited to India.Suzuki sells Indian designed cars like Alto,Swift Dzire and X-alpha abroad under the suzuki brand.



again it is suzuki not indian made cars that can sell

did the suzuki jv have a major strike some time ago like last year?



> Nano wont be launched in such markets,probabily the tata pixel would make it



not interested in nano which only has a local appeal



> coz they are Indian?



sort of. big mouth braggers no substance!

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## gslv mk3

shuttler said:


> Buyers can only see the logo which is suzuki



the same is true for *Chevy* sail



> again it is suzuki not indian made cars that can sell



they were designed in India



> did the suzuki jv have a major strike some time ago like last year?



so what?This is not china ,this is a democratic nation.



> not interested in nano which only has a local appeal



Tata's pixel and nano europa are built for european markets



shuttler said:


> sort of. big mouth braggers no substance!



What do you know about Indian cars??



shuttler said:


> you are wasting bandwidth here cheerleading indians. nobody will bat an eyelid for these *boring ill-concept* which we have tons better in our plants



chinese @$$ burning

what better designs?Copied from well renowned models sold by BMW,merc,toyota and the like??

We have better looking cars than that....



shuttler said:


> the same thing wont change however: you are incapable of making your own spare parts



hahaha...this is so funny.....



> We have better military cars too



copied humvees??





> we are exporting them
> what is your annual exports which you cheerleaders are shying away from?



We are the third largest exporter of cars in Asia

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## shuttler

gslv mk3 said:


> I though it was a toyota hilux at first!!
> 
> 
> we are much better than chinese in making bikes.Indian bikes are loved in Latin america and south east asia..haha..and take a look at this
> 
> Mahindra Racing







*Loncin Racing &#8211; The first factory racing team from China competing at the MotoGP. Here Tomoyoshi Koyama makes the most of the 125cc bike.
*

*Now that China has overtaken Japan to be the world&#8217;s largest producer of motorcycles, we decided to profile the top ten Chinese motorcycle manufactures. Featuring a line-up of motorcycles almost exclusively under 250cc, here they are, the most important motorcycle companies that you&#8217;ve never heard of:

TWO FIFTY MAGAZINE | TOP TEN CHINESE MOTORCYCLE COMPANIES*






*Loncin* *LX250-7 JEDI*





*Loncin LX150-30 SPITZER*






*Lifan LF250-19*





*Lifan LF150-13H
*





*Zongshen ZS150-6[V]
*


----------



## gslv mk3

shuttler said:


> *Loncin Racing &#8211; The first factory racing team from China competing at the MotoGP. Here Tomoyoshi Koyama makes the most of the 125cc bike.
> *



so you're at the same level in motogp racing,alright

Now some Indian bikes from same category as the ones you posted

Bajaj pulsar 375 (upcoming)










Bajaj pulsar 200 NS






TVS Apache






Mahindra Mojo








shuttler said:


> *Lifan LF150-13H
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Zongshen ZS150-6[V]
> *





and by the way,these reminded me of bikes we had back in the early 2000s

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## shuttler

gslv mk3 said:


> the same is true for *Chevy* sail



you cheerleaders have been putting our products down all the while and now you people know this and still dont know when to STFU!




> they were designed in India



with the suzuki logo





> so what?This is not china ,this is a democratic nation.



democratic countries for labour strikes - go tell the japanese if they were condoning it. So cheerleaders like labour strike in ahem
democratic india - we all know what democracy in india is!



> Tata's pixel and nano europa are built for european markets



as usual you are wasting your money on it



> What do you know about Indian cars??



never above us


> chinese @$$ burning



you're smelling the burning your behinds - smoking too many chillumd



> what better designs?Copied from well renowned models sold by BMW,merc,toyota and the like??



silly comment. if these companies are not happy, we have far better ways dealing these accusations. nonetheless none of cheerleading jealous and incapable indians concern



> We have better looking cars than that....


 customarily self appreciation



> hahaha...this is so funny.....


 so short of words and reasons but to submit




> copied humvees??


 go and tell humvee about it so as to score some working visa points






> We are the third largest exporter of cars in Asia



what is your no in 2012?


----------



## Götterdämmerung

All the motorbikes from India and China look tacky! 

Would some Indian forumers post the most current automobile export stats to make a comparison?


----------



## sweetgrape

It is very ridiculous that indian here teach china about quality..
Yes, china car still have big gap with western and japanese car, we all know 

these, but compared with indian car, I don't know how indian get that they are 

better than china? because they merged land rover?


I know a little automobile industry knowledge:
Do you think what can reflect competitiveness of automobile industry? my answer 

is equipment manufacturing, and component, in fact, compareing with western and 

japan, especially with German, we still have more than 20 years gap, too sad, 

but it is real, we are foward, China a punching machine is best, and BYD car 

battery also very good, it is very important for further car.

What I said is the gap with western, not indian, But I think indian must not 

talking about industry in front of china, you maybe not that suck, but not be 

good can here teach chinese...

Here is some information about china:
In sedan market, Chinese indegeneous band occupy about 30% share, yes, too 

little.
In SUV market, Chinese indegeneous band occupy about 45% share.
In MPV market, Chinese indegeneous band occupy about 80% share..

about Commercial vehicle, I don't have date, but on china load, most of them are 

chinese band, and china have some very good component manufacturing companies 

for commercial vehicle, and in shenzhen, if not all, most of them are chinese 

band, here have BYD electric buses...

Ok, less word, upload some pictures:
*First The Great Wall automobile:*
_Some models already in the market_
H6





After with new trademark





H5





After with new trademark






M4




C50




C30

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## Shinigami

the 200 ns is a sister bike of the KTM duke, also made in india. by the same bajaj

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## sweetgrape

*Continue The Great Wall automobile:*
_New Model wait for entering into market_
H2




In fact, before H2 is below one, it is also very good looking don't know what 

will Great Wall name it?






H7










H8











IF

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## gslv mk3

shuttler said:


> you cheerleaders have been putting our products down all the while and now you people know this and still dont know when to STFU!



I appreciate chinese contribution to the product.



> as usual you are wasting your money on it



Oh yeah?We got enough positive responses from buyers




> never above us



I ed



> silly comment. if these companies are not happy, we have far better ways dealing these accusations. nonetheless none of cheerleading jealous and incapable indians concern



accusition?Do you want people to disbeleive what they see??A*nd we are capable of designing our cars*



> customarily self appreciation



stating the fact,as usual



> go and tell humvee about it so as to score some working visa points



that one is allover the internet!!


----------



## sweetgrape

*Geely Automobile*
_Some models already in the market_
EC7





EC7-RV






EC8






GX7





GX2





SC5-RV

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## gslv mk3

sweetgrape said:


> It is very ridiculous that indian here teach china about quality..
> Yes, china car still have big gap with western and japanese car, we all know
> these, but compared with indian car, I don't know how indian get that they are
> better than china? because they merged land rover?




Our Industry is better than china coz we do proper r & d.


----------



## sweetgrape

*Geely Automobile*
_Reserved new medel_


EC6-RV





GT





GC6





GX6





GS





EV7








gslv mk3 said:


> Our Industry is better than china coz we do proper r & d.


You kidding me? you industry is better than china? just because of you have a proper r&d, what's the proper r&d, you define it as Indian one? don't say to us, you should tell the world, you are better than china, then see how much people buy these, hehe!


----------



## Götterdämmerung

gslv mk3 said:


> Our Industry is better than china coz we do proper r & d.



Can you post Indian car export stats, maybe also stats about Indian R&D expenditure in general and the car industry in particular?

Thanks!

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## sweetgrape

*Chery Automobile*
_Some models already in the market_


Tiggo





A3





G5





G6







_Reserved new medel_

&#946;5










&#945;7


----------



## gslv mk3

Götterdämmerung;4353317 said:


> Can you post Indian car export stats, maybe also stats about Indian R&D expenditure in general and the car industry in particular?
> 
> Thanks!




am not too good at stats..may take some time


----------



## sweetgrape

*BYD Automobile*
_Some models already in the market_

E6:It is battery car, you can see it in shenzhen as taxi, in HK, too.





&#36895;&#38160;





&#24605;&#38160;





S6&#65306;Yes, it look like a japanese car very much.





G6






_Reserved new medel_
&#31206;: Yeah, it is a battery car, it weight only half of battery of E6, but can 

drive longer, and it is cheaper, it will enter into market in june or junly.


----------



## gslv mk3

sweetgrape said:


> You kidding me? you industry is better than china? just because of you have a proper r&d, what's the proper r&d, you define it as Indian one? don't say to us, you should tell the world, you are better than china, then see how much people buy these, hehe!



What do you know about Indian car Industry?


----------



## sweetgrape

*Other brands-1*
B50






B70





B90





X80





H7





L9

















gslv mk3 said:


> What do you know about Indian car Industry?


Seems you know much about china automobile industry?!!
Where do you self-confidence come from? western can say we are far behind them, but india, it is joke, you do not know your gap with the world! is your self-confidence from gange?

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## shuttler

gslv mk3 said:


> so you're at the same level in motogp racing,alright



same level - this is just a small step




> Now some Indian bikes from same category as the ones you posted





> we have fancy race car designs have to search



we have fancy race bikes here posting for the ignorant:










*Loncine LX150-30&#65288;SPITZER&#65289;
*





*Loncine LX175-21&#65288;CR5&#65289;*

























*Swift horse SH200GY-7*



> and by the way,these reminded me of bikes we had back in the early 2000s



family and commercial bikes sell well

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## sweetgrape

*Other brands-2*

RW550





RW350





RW950





RW750





MG3





MG5





MG6

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## gslv mk3

shuttler said:


> we have fancy race bikes for the ignorant:
> [/IMG]



haha...tacky designs


QUOTE]family and commercial bikes sell well[/QUOTE]

They looks like certain bikes we had in the 2000s


----------



## sweetgrape

*Other brands-3*

X5





X6





X8





*Other brands-4*

RS





Refine M5






S5

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## Götterdämmerung

gslv mk3 said:


> am not too good at stats..may take some time



K, but other Indian forumers may have them at hand, or else all your bragging are nothing but hot air. Chinese forumers have already posted stats for their car industry.

No stats = hot air

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## sweetgrape

*Other brands-5*

CS35






RC






YD






H320





H330





530






FRV

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## shuttler

gslv mk3 said:


> haha...tacky designs




indians are unknown for their designs. why laughing at us?



> They looks like certain bikes we had in the 2000s



different options! you have similar models too selling all over india

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Chinese Geely and Cheery cars were introduced in Pak market... Geely didnt make it due to the lack of spares etc.... but Cheery sold alot of vehicles.

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## sweetgrape

I will say, in car industry, western is far ahead of us, for china, no 20 years, we can't catch up with german, or more time...
Car is just little part of automobile industry, the real competetitiveness is component and equipment manufacturing industry, like lathel, material.
Indian don't know industry, now open the thread to brag their car industry and teach china, it is very ridiculous, if you want mocking others, first at least you should better than them.


----------



## gslv mk3

*Tata Motors*

Tata Safari storme






Tata Safari






Tata Manza






next gen manza






Tata Aria






Tata vista






tata xenon








shuttler said:


> indians are unknown for their designs. why laughing at us?



may be thats the reason why our bikes are sold a lot in south america and south east asia





> different options! you have similar models too selling all over india




Thats pulsar 150(thats an old pic),and there are many other bikes at the same level


----------



## shuttler

gslv mk3 said:


> Our Industry is better than china coz we do proper r & d.



another self trumpet blowing
Marvellous!

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## gslv mk3

*Mahindra*

Xylo






Quanto






Scorpio






XUV 500


----------



## sweetgrape

Ok
*Other-1*


CS95





ZS XT





concept 500






concept900





B40





B90






BC302Z





C50E

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## sweetgrape

*Other-2*


C51X





C60F





C71






V7





M3





M6






M8





S7

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## shuttler

gslv mk3 said:


> *Tata Motors*
> 
> Tata Safari storme



what an ugly design!



> may be thats the reason why our bikes are sold a lot in south america and south east asia


 Figures?




> Thats pulsar 150(thats an old pic),and there are many other bikes at the same level



These present indian designs favour 2000s models:

Bajaj motorcycles:












mahindra motocycles

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## sweetgrape

*Other-3*


L7





GA3





GA5






GS5





LF 530





LF X60


----------



## shuttler

sweetgrape said:


> *Other-3*
> L7













Thursday, April 25, 2013, 14:08
*French president starts China visit*
By Xinhua







* French President Gets First Ride in New Hong Qi Limo*

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## Audio

@shuttler @sweetgrape

Company logo is Chinese flag? I like the regalness of it, sort of a mix between the Soviet protocolary ZiL's and Volga's and Rolls Royce's. Bet it's got a small forest worth of wood inside. 

Rest of the cars is generic junk. For every picture i thought of a similar already existing model from Europe or Japan.


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## sweetgrape

Audio said:


> @shuttler @sweetgrape
> 
> Company logo is Chinese flag? I like the regalness of it, sort of a mix between the Soviet protocolary ZiL's and Volga's and Rolls Royce's. Bet it's got a small forest worth of wood inside.
> 
> Rest of the cars is generic junk. For every picture i thought of a similar already existing model from Europe or Japan.



Maybe, whatever, comparing with western, we still have a long way to go, I don't mind whether it copy someone, or learn from it....
And by the way, some cars are designed by western, some companies have R&D center in the western, I know for such you generic junk, Chinese everthing is junk.

You can keep mocking, yes, you are more advanced than us now, you can, but never underestimate chinese, You should let you grandfather tell you these.

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## ice bomb

Banana said:


> Chinese automakers depend too much on foreign technology - China.org.cn
> 
> 
> 
> Does your country even make Cars?
> 
> No!
> 
> The Whole World laughs at you.



I am not aware that car making is the bench mark of how successfull your country is. 

I will thought that education level, health coverage, standard of living will be among them. 

But I wouldnt expect bananas to understand those kind things.

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## shuttler

Audio said:


> @shuttler @sweetgrape
> 
> Company logo is Chinese flag? I like the regalness of it, sort of a mix between the Soviet protocolary ZiL's and Volga's and Rolls Royce's. Bet it's got a small forest worth of wood inside.



Red flag is what the brand name Hongqi &#32418;&#26071; meant

More views of Hongqi:







































> Rest of the cars is generic junk. For every picture i thought of *a similar already existing model from Europe or Japan*.



*a reversal of thinking is also true*


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## Götterdämmerung

Audio said:


> @shuttler @sweetgrape
> 
> Company logo is Chinese flag? I like the regalness of it, sort of a mix between the Soviet protocolary ZiL's and Volga's and Rolls Royce's. Bet it's got a small forest worth of wood inside.
> 
> Rest of the cars is generic junk. For every picture i thought of a similar already existing model from Europe or Japan.



Hongqi is the only brand that I like. There is a lot of understatement in the Hongqi H7 and at the same time the beholder immediately would know that the owner of the car must have a special position in the society.

This is the only Chinese car I like






To be fair, most cars in the world are designed by a handful of design studios specialised in car designs.

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## Audio

sweetgrape said:


> Maybe, whatever, comparing with western, we still have a long way to go, I don't mind whether it copy someone, or learn from it....
> And by the way, some cars are designed by western, some companies have R&D center in the western, I know for such you generic junk, Chinese everthing is junk.
> 
> You can keep mocking, yes, you are more advanced than us now, you can, but never underestimate chinese, You should let you grandfather tell you these.



I was actually complimenting the Hong Qi. Regalness means it is fit for a king....

As for the rest, doesn't matter if it was designed by westerners in the west. Chinese CEO's approved them for sale. Maybe it's part of your culture to imitate in the hopes of catching the essence of success in the model you draw from.



Götterdämmerung;4353657 said:


>



Skoda Superb at a fast glance.


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## Guynextdoor2




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## Guynextdoor2

shuttler said:


> what an ugly design!
> 
> 
> Figures?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These present indian designs favour 2000s models:
> 
> Bajaj motorcycles:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mahindra motocycles

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## Götterdämmerung

Audio said:


> Skoda Superb at a fast glance.



The Skoda Superb looks cheap because of the logo at the front. For some reasons, I never liked the Skoda logo although Skoda had a glorious history in car making. Most Chinese car companies also have the same problem with their logos. Even when they will make high quality cars in some years, if their logo designs are not completely revamped, they still will look cheap.

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## Guynextdoor2

Götterdämmerung;4352216 said:


> I couldn't find one dealer selling Indian brand cars in my region.



Probably coz your region doesn't have enough money to buy new cars

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## Audio

Götterdämmerung;4353708 said:


> The Skoda Superb looks cheap because of the logo at the front. For some reasons, I never liked the Skoda logo although Skoda had a glorious history in car making. Most Chinese car companies also have the same problem with their logos. Even when they will make high quality cars in some years, if their logo designs are not completely revamped, they still will look cheap.



imho, on both the cars, the Hong Qi and this one the grill is overdone. Too big, too much chrome, it sort of sticks out. I prefer the fine mesh of the Bentley or even Chrysler 300 limo.


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## Götterdämmerung

Guynextdoor2 said:


> Probably coz your region doesn't have enough money to buy new cars



Hamburg is one of the richest city in the EU, delusional Indian!


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## Wright

shuttler said:


> Red flag is what the brand name Hongqi &#32418;&#26071; meant
> 
> More views of Hongqi:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> *a reversal of thinking is also true*



Thats looks like a Phantom copy.

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## Guynextdoor2

Götterdämmerung;4353745 said:


> Hamburg is one of the richest city in the EU, delusional Indian!



So we should build production and distribution in a saturated market that grows at 2% a year because.....??? You delusional german, we can find enough rich people elsewhere, more importantly in markets that will grow bigger and will justify long term investment returns. Cost of fighting for customers in hamburg will only lead us to losses.

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## Götterdämmerung

Audio said:


> imho, on both the cars, the Hong Qi and this one the grill is overdone. Too big, too much chrome, it sort of sticks out. I prefer the fine mesh of the Bentley or even Chrysler 300 limo.



Hmmm, I think that's what make those über-luxurious cars stand out. Take a look at RR, Maybach, Bentley, etc., they all have bigass chromium grill.




















Guynextdoor2 said:


> So we should build production and distribution in a saturated market that grows at 2% a year because.....??? You delusional german, we can find enough rich people elsewhere, more importantly in markets that will grow bigger and will justify long term investment returns. Cost of fighting for customers in hamburg will only lead us to losses.



Oh wow, now you are already competing with us in the upmarket.   

By the by, our car market is still bigger than your market. We are only 80 m, you 1.2 b.

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## Guynextdoor2

Götterdämmerung;4353765 said:


> Hmmm, I think that's what make those über-luxurious cars stand out. Take a look at RR, Maybach, Bentley, etc., they all have bigass chromium grill.
> 
> 
> Oh wow, now you are already competing with us in the upmarket.
> 
> By the by, our car market is still bigger than your market. We are only 80 m, you 1.2 b.



no one cares a flying f** the size of your market. In a saturated market (unlike our rapidly growing markets), the only strategy that makes sense is acquisitions, else don;t even touch them. When your VW starts bleeding endlessly because of high production costs we'll cut it up to pieces, share the spoils with the chinese and compete 'upmarket'.


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## shuttler

Audio said:


> I was actually complimenting the Hong Qi. Regalness means it is fit for a king....
> 
> As for the rest, doesn't matter if it was designed by westerners in the west. Chinese CEO's approved them for sale. Maybe* it's part of your culture* to imitate in the hopes of catching the essence of success in the model you draw from.
> 
> Skoda Superb at a fast glance.



you mean indian companies do not employ foreign designers for their products? or you people simply have foreign imports?



Wright said:


> Thats looks like a Phantom copy.



I guess with your mentality women on the street with boobs are the carbon copy of one another!

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## baajey

rott said:


> Pulsar - Infamously renowned as "THE NUT CRACKER" in India. The design is flawed.
> In an emergency situation, the rider dies before the impact. Reason? The Riders nuts get jammed between the fuel tank when braked hard. That's the bitter truth.


awesome sense of humor man.....
i m sorry bajaj riders, it wud be a sacrilege to not to laff at this......nut cracker hahahaha

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## shuttler

Guynextdoor2 said:


> youtube;rcBoVgyKjH8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcBoVgyKjH8[/video]



funny that bloke was so terrified crying " the Chinese are coming ... &#8220; like he was cr@ping his pants!

that vid was done some years ago. Since then our cars have made substantial improvements! Dont cr@p your pants like the guy in the vid!

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## Götterdämmerung

Guynextdoor2 said:


> no one cares a flying f** the size of your market. In a saturated market (unlike our rapidly growing markets), the only strategy that makes sense is acquisitions, else don;t even touch them. When your VW starts bleeding endlessly because of high production costs we'll cut it up to pieces, share the spoils with the chinese and compete 'upmarket'.



Our market might be saturated but still bigger than your market of 1.2 b. 

And our car companies are well positioned in every region of the world including having factories in all the main markets. What we keep here are the high-end products. Volkswagen alone has a revenue of almost 10 % of India's GDP. 

BTW, I bet that you all would brag 24/7 for months to come if any of your brands would even crack 1 % of our market.

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## Wright

shuttler said:


> I guess with your mentality women on the street with boobs are the carbon copy of one another!



Suicide doors, RR inspired Grill? Not even its sister Brand Bentley uses those design cues in its cars. 
The entire thing looks like a British design. China should develop its own type of look, like th Russians, Americans, Japanese have done.


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## Guynextdoor2

Götterdämmerung;4353810 said:


> Our market might be saturated but still bigger than your market of 1.2 b.
> 
> And our car companies are well positioned in every region of the world including having factories in all the main markets. What we keep here are the high-end products. Volkswagen alone has a revenue of almost 10 % of India's GDP.
> 
> BTW, I bet that you all would brag 24/7 for months to come if any of your brands would even crack 1 % of our market.



Yeah, well so does Tata. Guess they didn't teach you math at school you ignorant turd, at 7% a year a market doubles every 7-8 years, means it'll be four times it's size in 14 years and 16 times in 30 years. Now do that math at 2% and you'llk know why no one cares a damn about you. Your posts are always typical- stupid, uneducated and full of generalizations without an ounce of thinking.


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## shuttler

Wright said:


> Suicide doors, RR inspired Grill? Not even its sister Brand Bentley uses those design cues in its cars.
> The entire thing looks like a British design. China should develop its own type of look, like th Russians, Americans, Japanese have done.



nonsense! the grill has been one of the Hongqi features











the doors are a clever design. You dont know jack until you've practise opening and shuting them! The design has great defensive and escape purposes! I wonder if anyone can see the genius of it!

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## Guynextdoor2

shuttler said:


> funny that bloke was so terrified crying " the Chinese are coming ... &#8220; like he was cr@ping his pants!
> 
> that vid was done some years ago. Since then our cars have made substantial improvements! Dont cr@p your pants like the guy in the vid!



nnnopeee. Chinese cars aren't going to get any better soon and the only one crapping is you in your mouth. 

Your govt decided that in order to keep your ppl employed they'll look the other way on quality issues and keep production running. They've done that for decades and the damage will be longlasting. People don't just 'make' better products overnight. You need new investments in processes and production tech that any company will try to push out. You won't see a significant improvement for several years, and that too only if you govt finally starts setting very stringent standards. 

Contrast that with Indian regulations on safety which have been in place stringently. Even the cheapest car in the world is designed with high levels of safety:

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## Water Car Engineer

Chinese have way more companies making more cars.

India has like only 2 good companies. And they have only gotten better in like the past 10 years though.


























These are like the latest. Chinese have way more.

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## Wright

Götterdämmerung;4353810 said:


> Our market might be saturated but still bigger than your market of 1.2 b.
> 
> And our car companies are well positioned in every region of the world including having factories in all the main markets. What we keep here are the high-end products. Volkswagen alone has a revenue of almost 10 % of India's GDP.
> 
> BTW, I bet that you all would brag 24/7 for months to come if any of your brands would even crack 1 % of our market.




If Germans start breeding like rabbits like Indians, maybe you too can enjoy "unsaturated markets".


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## Water Car Engineer

shuttler said:


> These present indian designs favour 2000s models:
> 
> Bajaj motorcycles:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mahindra motocycles
























Bajaj makes good enough bikes. No, it's not in the league of Japanese brands.

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## shuttler

Guynextdoor2 said:


> nnnopeee. Chinese cars aren't going to get any better soon and the only one crapping is you in your mouth.



dont mistaken my arse as your mouth and dont cr@p thinking indian mades are getting near our standards



> Your govt decided that in order to keep your ppl employed they'll look the other way on quality issues and keep production running. They've done that for decades and the damage will be longlasting. People don't just 'make' better products overnight. You need new investments in processes and production tech that any company will try to push out. You won't see a significant improvement for several years, and that too only if you govt finally starts setting very stringent standards.



blah blah blah. give me the figures of how many indigenous cars have you exported in 2012?




> Contrast that with Indian regulations on safety which have been in place stringently. Even the cheapest car in the world is designed with high levels of safety:



what are the scores of your cars in european / american crash tests? 



> youtube;ahw7-KarkWw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahw7-KarkWw[/video]



europe or america wont buy this cheap poor quality car which catches fire the moment it runs its first kilometers
cheerleading indians are wasting their rupees once again!

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## Götterdämmerung

Guynextdoor2 said:


> Yeah, well so does Tata. Guess they didn't teach you math at school you ignorant turd, at 7% a year a market doubles every 7-8 years, means it'll be four times it's size in 14 years and 16 times in 30 years. Now do that math at 2% and you'llk know why no one cares a damn about you. Your posts are always typical- stupid, uneducated and full of generalizations without an ounce of thinking.



Your market doubles every 7-8 years and since we are well positioned in India and also have many factories in China we can serve your growing market just as we have captured the Chinese market in the last decades. Even when you are selling more cars, our cars are of higher value and thus the revenue would still be bigger than your Tata and Mahindra.

Talking about education, we didn't end up second from behind in the last PISA test, did we? And resorting to name calling is a sign of lacking argument.

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## Guynextdoor2

Wright said:


> If Germans start breeding like rabbits like Indians, maybe you too can enjoy "unsaturated markets".



shoo maggot


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## Götterdämmerung

Wright said:


> If Germans start breeding like rabbits like Indians, maybe you too can enjoy "unsaturated markets".





No, we don't want to end up like India. Every German child is precious and gets the utmost attention.

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## shuttler

Water Car Engineer said:


> Bajaj makes good enough bikes. No, it's not in the league of Japanese brands.



I was talking to that indian bloke earlier who ridiculed our bike designs look like 2000s. indian makers are doing the same thing as evidenced by the posted pix


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## Guynextdoor2

Götterdämmerung;4353855 said:


> Your market doubles every 7-8 years and since we are well positioned in India and also have many factories in China we can serve your growing market just as we have captured the Chinese market in the last decades. Even when you are selling more cars, our cars are of higher value and thus the revenue would still be bigger than your Tata and Mahindra.
> 
> Talking about education, we didn't end up second from behind in the last PISA test, did we? And resorting to name calling is a sign of lacking argument.



Who the F told you that you are 'well positioned' in India? The koreans and the japanese and the Indians have kicked the living daylights out of VW left, right and centre and made it a complete joke. You wanna know how 'well positioned' VW is? They recenltly started giving *ONE CAR FREE* if you buy another one. I have *NEVER* heard such a thing in my life. I can understand why they're struggling (both here and worldwide), they must filled with ppl like you.


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## shuttler

Guynextdoor2 said:


> Who the F told you that you are 'well positioned' in India? The koreans and the japanese and the Indians have kicked the living daylights out of VW left, right and centre and made it a complete joke. You wanna know how 'well positioned' VW is? They recenltly started giving *ONE CAR FREE* if you buy another one. I have *NEVER* heard such a thing in my life. I can understand why they're struggling (both here and worldwide), they must filled with ppl like you.



VW is a very good car maker&#65281;It is a top selling brand in China&#65281;


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## Götterdämmerung

Guynextdoor2 said:


> Who the F told you that you are 'well positioned' in India? The koreans and the japanese and the Indians have kicked the living daylights out of VW left, right and centre and made it a complete joke. You wanna know how 'well positioned' VW is? They recenltly started giving *ONE CAR FREE* if you buy another one. I have *NEVER* heard such a thing in my life. I can understand why they're struggling (both here and worldwide), they must filled with ppl like you.



But you have to wait for 5 years and until then the technology of the car will be obsolete. It's called creative marketing. 

Korean and Japanese cars are doing well because they are cheap, but all of you are dreaming to drive a BMW or Mercedes.

BTW, despite worldwide sluggish sales, VW is still writing with black ink, thanks to the Chinese market, while Indian car companies and even Japanese companies are struggling in the Indian market. 

In India, Car Sales Struggle Against Slow Economy, Pricey Fuel - Driver's Seat - WSJ

Analysis: Keep calm and carry on in India's slumping car market - Chicago Tribune


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## Guynextdoor2

shuttler said:


> VW is a very good car maker&#65281;*It is a top selling brand in China&#65281;*



Understandable...look at the topic of the thread...


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## shuttler

Guynextdoor2 said:


> Understandable...look at the topic of the thread...




yeah but you were trashing VW which is one of the top selling brands in China - FACT!


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## Guynextdoor2

Götterdämmerung;4353896 said:


> But you have to wait for 5 years and until then the technology of the car will be obsolete. It's called creative marketing.
> 
> Korean and Japanese cars are doing well because they are cheap, but all of you are dreaming to drive a BMW or Mercedes.
> 
> BTW, despite worldwide sluggish sales, VW is still writing with black ink, thanks to the Chinese market, while Indian car companies and even Japanese companies are struggling in the Indian market.
> 
> In India, Car Sales Struggle Against Slow Economy, Pricey Fuel - Driver's Seat - WSJ
> 
> Analysis: Keep calm and carry on in India's slumping car market - Chicago Tribune



Korean and Japanese manufacturers are doing well because they have the right products. Pole position for the Indian premium hatch segment belongs to Hyundai, which charges, and gets, more than VW across all the product lines they have fielded and are expanding them. VW itself has begun to acknowledge that competing with hyndai is probably not somthing they will be able to do- not just in India but around the world- because of the superiority of their products.








If you're trying to quote a business cycle as some sort of an insight...you're stupid.


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## Götterdämmerung

shuttler said:


> yeah but you were trashing VW which is one of the top selling brands in China - FACT!



VW and in fact any German branded car is way too expensive for poor Indians. Look at their pathetic GDP per capita. Our biggest markets outside Germany is the US and China.

I'm still waiting for the export stats of Indian car from the super power of bragging and blowing hot air. None of them seem to dare post the latest stats.

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## Guynextdoor2

Götterdämmerung;4353916 said:


> VW and in fact any German branded car is way too expensive for poor Indians. Look at their pathetic GDP per capita. Our biggest markets outside Germany is the US and China.
> 
> I'm still waiting for the export stats of Indian car from the super power of bragging and blowing hot air. None of them seem to dare post the latest stats.



WTF do you mean export stats you clown? Why would exports be a big factor in a large and rising native market you goddamn joker? Do you know *ANYTHING* ?


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## Götterdämmerung

Guynextdoor2 said:


> Korean and Japanese manufacturers are doing well because they have the right products. Pole position for the Indian premium hatch segment belongs to Hyundai, which charges, and gets, more than VW across all the product lines they have fielded and are expanding them. VW itself has begun to acknowledge that competing with hyndai is probably not somthing they will be able to do- not just in India but around the world- because of the superiority of their products.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you're trying to quote a business cycle as some sort of an insight...you're stupid.




And yet VW still is the second biggest car company in the world. Apart from VW, we still have BMW and Daimler in the luxury class which are the envy of the whole industry.

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## shuttler

Guynextdoor2 said:


> Korean and Japanese manufacturers are doing well because they have the right products. Pole position for the Indian premium hatch segment belongs to Hyundai, which charges, and gets, more than VW across all the product lines they have fielded and are expanding them. VW itself has begun to acknowledge that competing with hyndai is probably not somthing they will be able to do- not just in India but around the world- because of the superiority of their products.
> 
> youtube;YpPNVSQmR5c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpPNVSQmR5c[/video]
> 
> If you're trying to quote a business cycle as some sort of an insight...you're stupid.



in general I dont think VW are aiming at the same market segments

This is a VW classic made in China:

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## Götterdämmerung

Guynextdoor2 said:


> WTF do you mean export stats you clown? Why would exports be a big factor in a large and rising native market you goddamn joker? Do you know *ANYTHING* ?



The Chinese market is rising even faster and they still export more cars than you. AND you guys were bragging that your cars are well positioned in all major markets and export to all corners of the world.

Show me the stats!

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## Guynextdoor2

shuttler said:


> in general I dont think VW are aiming at the same market segments
> 
> This is a VW classic made in China:



This is a high end, low volume car. But they've been desperately trying to make a bid for mass market presence with the Polo-- and losing big time. Even the Skoda brand isn't doing well in comparison to Hyundai. Hyundai has succefully put itself in the higher end sedan segment kicking vento, jetta etc, out. Super Premium Off Landers are now dominated by Toyota and Ford. Ultra Premium- obviously Jaguar and Land Rover.



Götterdämmerung;4353942 said:


> The Chinese market is rising even faster and they still export more cars than you. AND you guys were bragging that your cars are well positioned in all major markets and export to all corners of the world.
> 
> Show me the stats!



I know this is going to be difficult for you to understand because of the complexity of logic but...listen carefully...in saturated, low growth markets, most viable way to enter is through acquisitions...now do you want me to repeat that more slowly??? So when VW finally starts bleeding, we'll cut up the company, split it with teh chinese and then start exporting to you... does that sound ok???


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## Götterdämmerung

Guynextdoor2 said:


> This is a high end, low volume car. But they've been desperately trying to make a bid for mass market presence with the Polo-- and losing big time. Even the Skoda brand isn't doing well in comparison to Hyundai. Hyundai has succefully put itself in the higher end sedan segment kicking vento, jetta etc, out. Super Premium Off Landers are now dominated by Toyota and Ford. Ultra Premium- obviously Jaguar and Land Rover.
> 
> 
> 
> I know this is going to be difficult for you to understand because of the complexity of logic but...listen carefully...in saturated, low growth markets, most viable way to enter is through acquisitions...now do you want me to repeat that more slowly??? So when VW finally starts bleeding, we'll cut up the company, split it with teh chinese and then start exporting to you... does that sound ok???



First of all, Jaguar and Land Rover are not ultra premium but just upper middle class cars. Ultra premium would be RR, Bentley and Bugatti, all owned by German companies.

Our car companies have been making M&A for decades now and we are aware of the situation of our market, that's why we have been investing in all major markets with factories and brand aquisition. 

Don't try to teach a German how the car industry works. We are not for nothing the benchmark of the car industry in all aspects!

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## shuttler

*China, biggest customer for VW luxury cars*
Updated: 2012-10-04 10:06By Fu Jing in Wolfsburg, Germany (China Daily) 

China has increasingly replaced the United States as the biggest market for luxury vehicles related to Germany's Volkswagen Group, a senior analyst said. 

Sales of vehicles in China from Bentley Motors Ltd and Porsche SE in China are expected to surpass those in the US this year, said Jimmy Jin, head of Market Intelligence China and ASEAN, at Volkswagen headquarters in Wolfsburg, Germany. 






A working staff passes a Volkswagen's Golf Cabriolet on July 30, 2012 at the Harbin International Auto Show. [Photo / Xinhua]




*Bentley is a VW subsidiary, and Porsche owns a controlling stake in VW. *

The development comes after sales in China of vehicles from *VW Group subsidiary Lamborghini SpA* topped US sales in 2011. 

"The luxury brands sell well these years in China because of new wealth," Jin told China Daily on the sideline of a Chinese business delegation's visit to Germany. 

Lamborghini sales this year might be the same as last, at about 400 units, Jin said. 

As for Bentleys, China sales have increased tenfold within the past several years, Jin said. "China will overtake the US to become the No 1 market of Bentleys this year," said Jin, adding that sales will reach 2,300 units this year, up from 1,779 in 2011. 

In 2011, the top three markets for Bentleys were the US, China and the UK. 

As for Porsche, China might replace the US as the top market for this brand if sales reach 31,000 units this year, Jin said. In 2011, the top three countries were the US, China and Germany. 

*VW had the fastest growth rate in the Chinese market from January through August, with 1.7 million vehicles delivered. *

*The growth has led VW's market share in China to rise to 20.4 percent during the January-to-August period, followed by the General Motors Co at 10 percent. *

*Jin said the sales of major Volkswagen Group brands is expected to surpass 2 million annually. "This goal will be achieved definitely," said Jin. 

If Volkswagen Group attains that goal, it will represent a sales growth of 22 percent compared with 2011. In 2009, sales reached 1.15 million, while in 2006, the total was 627,801. 

"This is how important the Chinese market is for us," said Jin. *

Jin is also confident about the performance of* Audi AG, another VW Group subsidiary*, whose vehicles are used mainly for governmental and business procurement. He predicted that *sales of Audis in China will surpass 400,000 this year, gaining a 30 percent annual increase from 2011. *

Jin said Audi sales in China have grown "very rapidly" these years, which have witnessed financial crisis in 2008-09 and unfolding European sovereign debt crisis. In 2006, sales were only 81,700. 

fujing@chinadaily.com.cn

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

rott said:


> Sure, I need a crash course in English from you, right? LOL
> 
> Listen up bro, VFM isn't *bad*, VFM isn't *CRAP* as you like to say it. Simply put it's just VFM. Chinese can make it cheap not because the parts are sub-standard, it's because of "cheap labor".
> Where in the world would you get a bowl of noodles for 3 bucks? It's probably 4 or 5 now. And I mean RMB, I give two **** to USDs.
> 
> In about 10 years from now, we'll have this conversation(if you're not 60 presently) lol, till then....



I agree all along, VFM is not bad. Actually for that price range, I am amazed that many Great wall vehicle even have USB and Blue Tooth connectivity.

But the standard of the Chinese car *WHEN COMPARE TO *American, European, Japanese, they are a second grade, there are no word to express their quality but the word "BAD". of Course those export model would be considered to be of 'Good Quality" if they are comparing them to the local Chinese market car.

I can provide evidence apart from what Jeremy Clarkson say to support my point that Chinese car is generally of bad quality

Great Wall Motors X240 SUV Review Review | Car Verdict 1.5/5 star
Great Wall range lacks safety | carsguide.com.au Cars guide said the price is high and lacking safety, and they actually go on record and say they prefer the Indian Brand......
Great Wall Motors X240 4WD Review |*CarAdvice car advice gave the car again 1.5 out of 5

Well, unless you can translate all those review into a GOOD quality, I would say 1.5 out of 5 cannot be called average quality too.

Chinese car is good value for money, but still of bad quality, , again, not only me saying, but people who drove the car, people who review the cars agrees too.

And dude, I am not talking about 10 years from now, who knows what happen 10 years from now, if you want to talk about 10 years from now, then please come back and talk to me 10 years from now.


----------



## jhungary

Banana said:


> Price is not even the concern.
> 
> What @jhungary is saying is that your build quality and engineered cars are not even worth considering.



Well, different people have different view on driving, some people really do only look at the price. As I said, 23,999 AUD per ute is more than make some everyday Aussie drool all over the floor. People like that almost always don't look at build quality. As long as it have 4 wheels and can move on its own, it would more than enough to make them buy it. Hence this is what low price range car is for.


----------



## shuttler

*Best selling cars - Russia-full-year-2012*



> *Top 56 All-brands Ranking Tables*
> 
> *Pos	Brand 2012	%	/11	2011	Pos*
> 1	Lada 537,625 18.4%	-7%	578,387	1
> 2	Chevrolet	205,042	7.1%	18%	173,484	2
> 3	Renault	189,852	6.4%	23%	154,734	4
> 4	Kia	187,330	6.4%	23%	152,873	5
> 5	Hyundai	174,286	6.0%	7%	163,447	3
> 6	Volkswagen	164,702	5.6%	40%	118,003	9
> 7	Nissan	153,747	5.3%	11%	138,827	6
> 8	Toyota	153,046	5.2%	28%	119,505	7
> 9	Ford	130,809	4.3%	11%	118,031	8
> 10	Skoda	99,062	3.3%	34%	74,074	13
> 11	GAZ	90,247	3.0%	0%	90,034	11
> 12	Daewoo	88,232	3.0%	-5%	92,778	10
> 13	Opel	81,242	2.7%	20%	67,555	14
> 14	Mitsubishi	72,294	2.5%	-3%	74,166	12
> 15	UAZ	60,653	2.0%	6%	57,148	15
> 16	Mazda	44,443	1.5%	12%	39,718	17
> 17	Peugeot	44,420	1.5%	0%	44,304	16
> 18	BMW	37,515	1.2%	33%	28,165	21
> 19	Mercedes	37,436	1.3%	29%	29,058	19
> 20	Audi	33,512	1.2%	44%	23,250	23
> 21	Citroen	32,859	1.1%	19%	27,638	22
> 22	Suzuki	32,684	1.1%	-8%	35,469	18
> 23	SsangYong	31,198	1.0%	37%	22,692	24
> 24	Honda	21,512	0.7%	13%	19,101	27
> *25	Lifan	20,544	0.7%	15%	17,916	28*
> 26	Volvo	20,364	0.7%	6%	19,209	26
> 27	Land Rover	19,043	0.6%	44%	13,183	30
> *28	Chery	19,004	0.7%	161%	7,278	35
> 29	Geely	17,566	0.6%	190%	6,060	38*
> 30	Volkswagen NFZ	16,161	0.5%	31%	12,345	32
> 31	Lexus	15,653	0.5%	14%	13,698	29
> *32	Great Wall	14,373	0.5%	112%	6,777	37*
> 33	Subaru	14,296	0.5%	16%	12,371	31
> 34	ZAZ	9,964	0.4%	-50%	20,049	25
> 35	Infiniti	9,209	0.3%	31%	7,042	36
> 36	Fiat	8,623	0.3%	-69%	28,254	20
> 37	Bogdan	7,512	0.3%	-13%	8,683	34
> 38	Vortex	5,953	0.2%	-51%	12,103	33
> 39	Jeep	4,704	0.2%	125%	2,093	44
> 40	Mercedes Vans	3,974	0.1%	47%	2,702	41
> 41	Porsche	3,613	0.1%	64%	2,202	43
> *42	BYD	2,630	0.1%	31%	2,004	45*
> 43	Mini	2,629	0.1%	31%	2,002	46
> 44	Seat	2,500	0.1%	122%	1,127	49
> 45	Izh	2,465	0.1%	-52%	5,163	39
> 46	Cadillac	2,024	0.1%	-9%	2,226	42
> *47	BAW	1,845	0.1%	n/a	n/a	n/a*
> 48	Jaguar	1,506	0.1%	27%	1,182	48
> 49	TagAZ	1,331	0.0%	-28%	1,840	47
> 50	Haima	591	0.0%	-81%	3,114	40
> *51	FAW	560	0.0%	new	0 -*
> 52	Dodge	206	0.0%	30%	158	51
> 53	Chrysler	194	0.0%	155%	76	53
> 54	Isuzu	156	0.0%	-58%	371	50
> *55	Foton	141	0.0%	5%	134	52*
> 56	Smart	28	0.0%	new	0 -



To China bashing losers: not every one is looking into the cr@ppy western reports and this is one place - Russia where our cars are sold and sales is above the previous year. Haters gonna hate, losers!


----------



## shuttler

*Australia January 2013 and year of 2012 total &#8211; brands:
*


> *Pos	Brand	Jan-13	%	Dec	2012	%	Pos*
> 1	Toyota	13,375	15.7%	1	218,176	19.6%	1
> 2	Mazda	8,912	10.4%	2	103,886	9.3%	3
> 3	Holden	8,811	10.3%	3	114,665	10.3%	2
> 4	Ford	7,721	9.0%	5	90,408	8.1%	5
> 5	Nissan	7,248	8.5%	6	79,747	7.2%	6
> 6	Hyundai	6,816	8.0%	4	91,536	8.2%	4
> 7	Mitsubishi	4,449	5.2%	8	58,868	5.3%	7
> 8	Volkswagen	3,824	4.5%	7	54,835	4.9%	8
> 9	Honda	3,816	4.5%	9	35,812	3.2%	10
> 10	Subaru	3,104	3.6%	10	40,189	3.6%	9
> 11	Kia	2,308	2.7%	13	30,758	2.8%	11
> 12	Suzuki	1,834	2.1%	12	24,057	2.2%	12
> 13	Mercedes	1,759	2.1%	11	22,397	2.0%	13
> 14	Jeep	1,642	1.9%	14	18,014	1.6%	15
> 15	Audi	1,345	1.6%	16	14,535	1.3%	16
> 16	BMW	1,301	1.5%	15	18,413	1.7%	14
> 17	Land Rover	834	1.0%	19	7,929	0.7%	18
> 18	Isuzu Ute	660	0.8%	18	7,782	0.7%	19
> *19	Great Wall	657	0.8%	17	11,006	1.0%	17*
> 20	Volvo Car	463	0.5%	22	5,375	0.5%	21
> 21	Lexus	430	0.5%	21	6,839	0.6%	20
> 22	Peugeot	404	0.5%	24	5,071	0.5%	22
> 23	Renault	331	0.4%	20	5,011	0.5%	23
> 24	Skoda	252	0.3%	30	3,502	0.3%	24
> 25	Porsche	209	0.2%	34	1,373	0.1%	30
> 26	Chrysler	170	0.2%	23	1,359	0.1%	31
> 27	Mini	161	0.2%	25	2,394	0.2%	25
> 28	Citroen	157	0.2%	27	1,702	0.2%	27
> 29	Fiat	143	0.2%	26	1,432	0.1%	29
> 30	Ssangyong	124	0.1%	31	1,590	0.1%	28
> 31	Opel	109	0.1%	29	541	0.0%	36
> 32	Dodge	94	0.1%	28	2,028	0.2%	26
> *33	Chery 94 0.1%	36	1,133	0.1%	32*
> 34	Alfa Romeo	90	0.1%	32	906	0.1%	34
> 35	Jaguar	90	0.1%	33	786	0.1%	35
> 36	Proton	50	0.1%	35	1,005	0.1%	33
> 37	Bentley	26	0.0%	46	65	0.0%	43
> 38	Smart	14	0.0%	37	142	0.0%	37
> 39	Maserati	12	0.0%	42	124	0.0%	38
> 40	Ferrari	11	0.0%	38	98	0.0%	39
> 41	Infiniti	10	0.0%	39	85	0.0%	41
> 42	Aston Martin	8	0.0%	40	94	0.0%	40
> 43	Lamborghini	7	0.0%	47	41	0.0%	44
> 44	Lotus	4	0.0%	41	69	0.0%	42
> 45	McLaren	2	0.0%	44	23	0.0%	46
> 46	Morgan	2	0.0%	45	16	0.0%	48
> 47	Rolls-Royce	1	0.0%	43	22	0.0%	47
> 48	Caterham 1	0.0%	49	3	0.0%	49
> 49	Saab	0	0.0%	48	27	0.0%	45


----------



## timetravel

Chinese focus more on looks only. Chinese cars look good from outside. But the performance is not good.

Indian car manufacturers have been focusing over the years on the performance of the cars and in their own R&D efforts.

Indian cars are tougher and more reliable and lasts for decades while the Chinese would only last a few years.

Indian cars - Safe, Reliable and UNIQUE

Chinese cars - Unsafe, Unreliable and NOT UNIQUE

Chinese cars would never be a success in India as they cannot give the reliability of a Indian made car.


----------



## shuttler

*Full December 2012 Top 30 Ranking Table below.
*




















*Dongfeng S30*












*Haima 7*

*Venezuela December and total of 2012:
*


> Pos	Model	Dec	%	Nov	2012	%	Pos	2011
> *1	Civetchi/DongFeng S30	583	7.1%	26	693	0.5%	40	* -
> 2	Toyota Hilux	553	6.7%	5	2,898	2.2%	16	23
> 3	Ford Explorer	502	6.1%	14	5,030	3.9%	7	15
> 4	Ford F350	449	5.5%	7	6,805	5.2%	4	3
> 5	Mitsubishi Lancer	439	5.4%	4	6,492	5.0%	5	6
> 6	Mazda BT-50	400	4.9%	1	2,663	2.0%	18	n/a
> 7	Kia Rio	351	4.3%	17	2,603	2.0%	19	17
> 8	Ford Fiesta	331	4.0%	11	7,691	5.9%	2	2
> 9	Fiat Siena	292	3.6% -	1,050	0.8%	27	n/a
> 10	Chevrolet Silverado	287	3.5%	2	3,460	2.7%	11	12
> *11	Haima 7	274	3.3%	30	352	0.3%	48 -*
> 12	Kia Sportage	273	3.3%	22	2,443	1.9%	22	18
> 13	Chevrolet Aveo	256	3.1%	6	16,542	12.7%	1	1
> 14	Toyota Corolla	251	3.1%	12	6,134	4.7%	6	7
> 15	Ford F250	251	3.1%	19	2,516	1.9%	20	19
> 16	VW SpaceFox	238	2.9%	20	1,401	1.1%	25	n/a
> 17	Chevrolet Orlando	238	2.9%	10	743	0.6%	39 -
> 18	Chevrolet Cruze	232	2.8%	3	7,281	5.6%	3	22
> 19	Toyota Fortuner	232	2.8%	15	4,357	3.3%	9	13
> 20	Jeep Cherokee	192	2.3%	8	3,931	3.0%	10	16
> 21	Jeep Grand Cherokee	163	2.0%	13	4,427	3.4%	8	5
> 22	Iveco Chasis Daily	119	1.5%	34	434	0.3%	45	n/a
> 23	Civetchi Mini	89	1.1%	25	784	0.6%	38	n/a
> 24	Chevrolet Optra	85	1.0%	16	2,727	2.1%	17	4
> 25	Chevrolet NPR	84	1.0%	9	3,117	2.4%	14	25
> 26	Hyundai HD72	77	0.9%	n/a	163	0.1%	n/a -
> 27	Kia Pregio	68	0.8%	27	971	0.7%	31	n/a
> 28	Iveco Daily	61	0.7%	24	945	0.7%	33	31
> 29	Mitsubishi Canter	59	0.7%	23	1,061	0.8%	26	29
> 30	Mitsubishi L300	56	0.7%	33	815	0.6%	37	n/a


----------



## jhungary

shuttler said:


> *China, biggest customer for VW luxury cars*
> Updated: 2012-10-04 10:06By Fu Jing in Wolfsburg, Germany (China Daily)
> 
> China has increasingly replaced the United States as the biggest market for luxury vehicles related to Germany's Volkswagen Group, a senior analyst said.
> 
> Sales of vehicles in China from Bentley Motors Ltd and Porsche SE in China are expected to surpass those in the US this year, said Jimmy Jin, head of Market Intelligence China and ASEAN, at Volkswagen headquarters in Wolfsburg, Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A working staff passes a Volkswagen's Golf Cabriolet on July 30, 2012 at the Harbin International Auto Show. [Photo / Xinhua]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Bentley is a VW subsidiary, and Porsche owns a controlling stake in VW. *
> 
> The development comes after sales in China of vehicles from *VW Group subsidiary Lamborghini SpA* topped US sales in 2011.
> 
> "The luxury brands sell well these years in China because of new wealth," Jin told China Daily on the sideline of a Chinese business delegation's visit to Germany.
> 
> Lamborghini sales this year might be the same as last, at about 400 units, Jin said.
> 
> As for Bentleys, China sales have increased tenfold within the past several years, Jin said. "China will overtake the US to become the No 1 market of Bentleys this year," said Jin, adding that sales will reach 2,300 units this year, up from 1,779 in 2011.
> 
> In 2011, the top three markets for Bentleys were the US, China and the UK.
> 
> As for Porsche, China might replace the US as the top market for this brand if sales reach 31,000 units this year, Jin said. In 2011, the top three countries were the US, China and Germany.
> 
> *VW had the fastest growth rate in the Chinese market from January through August, with 1.7 million vehicles delivered. *
> 
> *The growth has led VW's market share in China to rise to 20.4 percent during the January-to-August period, followed by the General Motors Co at 10 percent. *
> 
> *Jin said the sales of major Volkswagen Group brands is expected to surpass 2 million annually. "This goal will be achieved definitely," said Jin.
> 
> If Volkswagen Group attains that goal, it will represent a sales growth of 22 percent compared with 2011. In 2009, sales reached 1.15 million, while in 2006, the total was 627,801.
> 
> "This is how important the Chinese market is for us," said Jin. *
> 
> Jin is also confident about the performance of* Audi AG, another VW Group subsidiary*, whose vehicles are used mainly for governmental and business procurement. He predicted that *sales of Audis in China will surpass 400,000 this year, gaining a 30 percent annual increase from 2011. *
> 
> Jin said Audi sales in China have grown "very rapidly" these years, which have witnessed financial crisis in 2008-09 and unfolding European sovereign debt crisis. In 2006, sales were only 81,700.
> 
> fujing@chinadaily.com.cn



umm, this news is about Foreign Car selling in China, not Chinese car selling in Foreign market.
What does that have to do with Chinese Automotive industries?? And the quality of Chinese Car?? If it says anything, it's only indicating that Chinese customer is *MOVING AWAY *from local Chinese brand, not a good sign if you want to represent their quality...


----------



## shuttler

jhungary said:


> umm, this news is about Foreign Car selling in China, not Chinese car selling in Foreign market.
> What does that have to do with Chinese Automotive industries?? And the quality of Chinese Car??



you* fail *to follow thru the whole chain of discussion
also VW are manufacturing in China plants albeit under JVs 

*Get it?*


----------



## sweetgrape

H6









H8

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

shuttler said:


> you* fail *to follow thru the whole chain of discussion
> also VW are manufacturing in China plants albeit under JVs
> 
> *Get it?*



I love how Chinese having double standard.......

When something perform well, as long as there are a small notation of that's related to China, you call them CHinese

Saying VW is Chinese car is the same as saying BMW is a British Brand.

Dude, who owning those company does not matter, otherwise we would have to call* Jaguar *and *ASTON Martin *an Indian company, which you refused to claim they are.

Oh, but when VW are doing well, then suddenly they are not German anymore, they are Chinese company.

Really, have you head check please


----------



## sweetgrape

BYD SR













S5

Reactions: Like Like:
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## shuttler

jhungary said:


> I love how Chinese having double standard.......
> 
> When something perform well, as long as there are a small notation of that's related to China, you call them CHinese
> 
> Saying VW is Chinese car is the same as saying BMW is a British Brand.
> 
> Dude, who owning those company does not matter, otherwise we would have to call* Jaguar *and *ASTON Martin *an Indian company, which you refused to claim they are.
> 
> Oh, but when VW are doing well, then suddenly they are not German anymore, they are Chinese company.
> 
> Really, have you head check please



you are not making senses and out of logic always and commenting out of your tantrums

you cant even comprehend what I have written between my lines - english tutor!


----------



## sweetgrape

X80














B90

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## jhungary

shuttler said:


> you are not making senses and out of logic always and commenting out of your tantrums
> 
> you cant even comprehend what I have written between my lines - english tutor!



dude, my word are straight and simple, VW is NOT A CHINESE BRAND........

You cannot call VW a Chinese brand even a Chinese company bought the brand, VW is and ALWAYS is German brand. They done their research in Germany, they sell their car IN GERMANY. There are nothing Chinese about VW except for the company that own it.

I said, if you have to call VW a Chinese brand, then you also would need to start calling GM, Jaugar and Aston martin Indian brand lol

Remember you say this in post 167??



> *Jaguar Land Rover... british cars
> KTM Duke.. Australian bikes american company
> Sanyong ... s korean cars
> Rexton... s korean
> Dawoo.. south korean*
> what is your point?
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/255225-chinese-cars-still-below-par-12.html#ixzz2UvPS45qt



Yet you refuse to call them Indian brand simply because they were sold to Indian company, double standard much??

Hence I said, you should really have your head check


----------



## sweetgrape

RW 550













MG 6

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## shuttler

*@sweetgrape*

*Good job Bro!*


----------



## sweetgrape

RF X5













GX7

Reactions: Like Like:
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## shuttler

jhungary said:


> dude, my word are straight and simple, VW is NOT A CHINESE BRAND........
> 
> You cannot call VW a Chinese brand even a Chinese company bought the brand, VW is and ALWAYS is German brand. They done their research in Germany, they sell their car IN GERMANY. There are nothing Chinese about VW except for the company that own it.
> 
> I said, if you have to call VW a Chinese brand, then you also would need to start calling GM, Jaugar and Aston martin Indian brand lol
> 
> Remember you say this in post 167??
> 
> 
> 
> Yet you refuse to call them Indian brand simply because they were sold to Indian company, double standard much??
> 
> Hence I said, you should really have your head check



you are way off what I meant *Mega-Troll*!

Reactions: Like Like:

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## jhungary

shuttler said:


> you are way off what I meant *Mega-Troll*!



lol, that's the best you can do?

When a real challenge arise, Chinese member remain silent, but resort to name calling 

Top notch defend tactics I must say 

What can do done when a hypocrite calling other hypocrite??

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## sweetgrape

Chery &#946;5

















Chery &#945;7

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## gslv mk3

shuttler said:


> what an ugly design!



Much better than designs copied from Land Rover Evoque,Jeep Grande Cherokee,Hyundai fluidic design,Honda civic,Jeep wranglers and BMWs......




> These present indian designs favour 2000s models:
> 
> Bajaj motorcycles:
> mahindra motocycles



You call this a 2000s design??






What about this then??








>



Not even an Indian bike,not sold in India








shuttler said:


> I was talking to that indian bloke earlier who ridiculed our bike designs look like 2000s. indian makers are doing the same thing as evidenced by the posted pix



compare these...


----------



## sweetgrape

CA RC


















CA CS35

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## shuttler

gslv mk3 said:


> Much better than designs copied from Land Rover Evoque,Jeep Grande Cherokee,Hyundai fluidic design,Honda civic and BMWs......



dont use the same dull rhetorics a million times. no one will believe your trash no more






> You call this a 2000s design??



you mean a 1900 design?

save all your imgs. the designs are of little variations and improvisations - try harder really!



> Not even an Indian bike,not sold in India



search your own motor bike sites you can find plenty of 1900s 2000s

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## cloud_9




----------



## gslv mk3

shuttler said:


> dont use the same dull rhetorics a million times. no one will believe your trash no more



Just look at the pics sweetgrape posted...hahaha



> you mean a 1900 design?
> 
> save all your imgs. the designs are of little variations and improvisations - try harder really!



So According to this guy..these are 1990s design






And this is the most modern design...save this for the upcoming sci fi movie...hahaha






Mahindra E20 Electric car






Tata Nano






Tata pixel-the Tata European city car concept 






Mega pixel

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## sweetgrape

Commercial vehicle now:

JF J6P









JF J6M










ZQ HOWO T7H











DF TL

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## shuttler

gslv mk3 said:


> Just look at the pics sweetgrape posted...hahaha
> 
> So According to this guy..these are 1990s design
> 
> And this is the most modern design...save this for the upcoming sci fi movie...hahaha



well you can keep on exploring your interest of posting indian motor bikes until some one gets annoyed and buutt you for off-topics

My interest in motor cycles until now and regardless of where they're made, expires!


----------



## gslv mk3

Tata Motors

Worlds 4 th largest Truck Manufacturer,Second largest bus manufacturer

Prima Range


----------



## Nan Yang

Made in China BUS and Metro trains in India.


----------



## gslv mk3

shuttler said:


> well you can keep on exploring your interest of posting indian motor bikes until some one gets annoyed and buutt you for off-topics
> My interest in motor cycles until now and regardless of where they're made, expires!



yeah..believe whatever you like...hahaha

smaller trucks


















Nan Yang said:


> Made in China BUS and Metro trains in India.



The metro coach you posted is BEML,made in india

http://www.bemlindia.com/

Kinglong buses are just terrible,I dont know how the chinese metro trains would fare


----------



## gslv mk3

small size trucks


----------



## gslv mk3

*Ashok Leyland*





















Bajaj export stats 

Africa and Latin America are the largest foreign markets for the company, accounting for 65 per cent of its exports, which reached 1.6 million units in fiscal 2012.


http://profit.ndtv.com/news/corporates/article-bajaj-auto-targets-up-to-20-exports-increase-in-fiscal-2013-305449


----------



## gslv mk3

Mahindra


----------



## Shinigami

there is a very old thread running. save the bandwidth
http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/52785-made-india-vehicles.html

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## Banana

Götterdämmerung;4353942 said:


> The Chinese market is rising even faster and they still export more cars than you. AND you guys were bragging that your cars are well positioned in all major markets and export to all corners of the world.
> 
> Show me the stats!



Indian Cars are better than Chinese cars, foreign companies make it or the respective companies make it, Indian Cars fare more reliable, last long, better build quality than Chinese Cars.

That is the Topic.

Not how much Crap has been exported to Cuba and Iraq by the Sub-Contractors.


----------



## Banana

sweetgrape said:


> I will say, in car industry, western is far ahead of us, for china, no 20 years, we can't catch up with german, or more time...
> Car is just little part of automobile industry, the real competetitiveness is component and equipment manufacturing industry, like lathel, material.



BS.

Car Manufacturing is the epitome of country's industrial level.

If you can make good cars, you have crossed an industrial threshold.



> Indian don't know industry, now open the thread to brag their car industry and teach china, it is very ridiculous, if you want mocking others, first at least you should better than them.



India is better than China in Car Manufacturing.

Indian made Cars, be it by Indian Companies or Foreign Companies is much much Better than China.

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## Banana

Götterdämmerung;4353745 said:


> Hamburg is one of the richest city in the EU, delusional Indian!



Market shrank 17% in Germany.

Except Luxury Cars, there is No Growth in EU.


----------



## Banana

shuttler said:


> what an ugly design!



Looks quite classy and has a Cult following!

The most well positioned Chinese SUV maker in international markets Great Wall is beaten by Mahindra.



> mahindra motocycles



Mahindra does not make Bikes, only Mopeds.

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## huskie

typical wet dream.


Banana said:


> Indian Cars are better than Chinese cars, foreign companies make it or the respective companies make it, Indian Cars fare more reliable, last long, better build quality than Chinese Cars.
> 
> That is the Topic.
> 
> Not how much Crap has been exported to Cuba and Iraq by the Sub-Contractors.

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## Banana

ice bomb said:


> I am not aware that car making is the bench mark of how successfull your country is.
> 
> I will thought that education level, health coverage, standard of living will be among them.
> 
> But I wouldnt expect bananas to understand those kind things.



The ultimate benchmark of how Successful you as a group are is at the Civilizational Level.

Artificial Countries find solace in Per Capita Income, Literacy Rate, etc.

If these benchmarks are to be counted, why wouldn't we do it on a compounded basis since eternity.

Will give the correct idea!



huskie said:


> typical wet dream.



It has already been proven when compared in matured markets.


----------



## gslv mk3

Banana said:


> Mahindra does not make Bikes, only Mopeds.



what??They are already present in the motorcycle market.

There are many more aspects like buses and construction equipment...

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## sweetgrape

Banana said:


> BS.
> 
> *Car Manufacturing is the epitome of country's industrial level.*
> 
> If you can make good cars, you have crossed an industrial threshold.
> 
> 
> 
> India is better than China in Car Manufacturing.
> 
> Indian made Cars, be it by Indian Companies or Foreign Companies is much much Better than China.



So, indian industry is better than china?
Don't say shallow word, show the real proof, OK, and don't make comment after drinking some gange river!




Banana said:


> The ultimate benchmark of how Successful you as a group are is at the Civilizational Level.
> 
> Artificial Countries find solace in Per Capita Income, Literacy Rate, etc.
> 
> If these benchmarks are to be counted, why wouldn't we do it on a compounded basis since eternity.
> 
> Will give the correct idea!
> 
> 
> 
> It has already been proven when compared in matured markets.



Which matured market are you talking about? USA, Japan, Britain, Or "Indian"? 
Don't include landrover into indian car industry, just like, although Geely has bought VOLVO, VOLVO don't belong china car industry!


----------



## gslv mk3

*Few Information About Indian Auto Sector *

1. India's passenger car and commercial vehicle manufacturing industry is the sixth largest in the world, with an annual production of more than 3.9 million units in 2011.

2. In 2010, India beat Thailand to become Asia's third largest exporter of passenger cars.

3. As of 2010, India is home to 40 million passenger vehicles. More than 3.7 million automotive vehicles were produced in India in 2010 (an increase of 33.9%), making the country the second (after China) fastest growing automobile market in the world in that year.

4. India's automobile exports have grown consistently and reached $4.5 billion in 2009, with United Kingdom being India's largest export market followed by Italy, Germany, Netherlands and South Africa. India's automobile exports are expected to cross $12 billion by 2014

5. India, is the second largest producer of two-wheelers in the world. In the last few years, the Indian two-wheeler industry has seen spectacular growth. 


6. According to New York Times, India's strong engineering base and expertise in the manufacturing of low-cost, fuel-efficient cars has resulted in the expansion of manufacturing facilities of several automobile companies like Hyundai, Nissan, Toyota, Volkswagen and Maruti Suzuki

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## Goodbye!

walle said:


> Great wall sold 30k vehicle in Australia since June July 2009 to 2013 April. Its one of the fastest growing brands, outgrowing the pace when korean vehicle first hit down under. I often see great walls around Sydney, I rarely ever seen a mahindra (since 2007). Both make 4 x4 utes.



The general consensus is Great wall is better in the city, and Mahindra is better in the country. The real test will be how they match up and catch up with the likes of Nissan, Toyota and Holden in the coming years. From the Australian perspective both Indian and Chinese utes are in the same bracket- how do you decide whether to go for a 2nd hand mainstream or a 1st hand Indian/Chinese ute? If they can make a dent in that second hand ute market that would be a significant win for both the Asian manufacturers.


----------



## Guynextdoor2

Götterdämmerung;4353991 said:


> First of all, Jaguar and Land Rover are not ultra premium but just upper middle class cars. Ultra premium would be RR, Bentley and Bugatti, all owned by German companies.
> 
> Our car companies have been making M&A for decades now and we are aware of the situation of our market, that's why we have been investing in all major markets with factories and brand aquisition.
> 
> Don't try to teach a German how the car industry works. We are not for nothing the benchmark of the car industry in all aspects!



you have NO IDEA about how a business works do you? Product portfolio decisions are not taken with your head stuck up in your @$$. The way you're ranting 'high end, high end', it's supposed to mean something- *IT DOES NOT*. Business decisions are more pragmatic, if a large market with lower priced products is more profitable, they'll go for that; if a small market with ultra high end models makes more profitable, they'll go for that. If you're trying to say that owning Bentley and RR is supposed prove something- *IT DOES NOT*. Fact, in the most profitable product lines on this planet- high & medium end sedan and high & medium end hatch, the Koreans are beating the shist out of VW. Owning Bentley and RR don't mean a thing if you can't get your Golfs, your Polos, Ventos, Jettas right. 

You're no longer the benchmark for cars- the Koreans are. And they're not losing any sleep over not owning RR & Bentley. Many of these brands have frequently run into losses and have needed rescuing. Even Jaguar and Land rover was on the verge of Bankrutpcy, but since they were good aqcuisitions in saturated markets, made sense for Tata to pick it up.

PS- try *SELLING * these brands you're bragging about and see how many ppl line up

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## Banana

sweetgrape said:


> So, indian industry is better than china?
> Don't say shallow word, show the real proof, OK, and don't make comment after drinking some gange river!



Ad Hominem over Ad Hominem!

Check the first few pages.

First drive: Australia



> Inside, there are ample storage pockets in the doors and dash. *The quality is a bit iffy, but generally it was a notch above the build quality of Chinese-made cars.*


----------



## Banana

Götterdämmerung;4353991 said:


> First of all, Jaguar and Land Rover are not ultra premium but just upper middle class cars. Ultra premium would be RR, Bentley and Bugatti, all owned by German companies.



They are supercars.

Ultra Luxury are Range Rover, Jaguar and Mercedes.

Rest are Luxury Cars like Audi, BMW, etc.

Premium Cars are $30,000+ but marquees like Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac.

And Yeah Bentley is coming Downmarket to compete with the 2013 Range Rover.

LR said they will make an Ultra Range Rover to go head on head with Bentley. 

So JLR is a notch above BMW, Benz and Mercedes.


----------



## walle

cb7bs2 said:


> The general consensus is Great wall is better in the city, and Mahindra is better in the country. The real test will be how they match up and catch up with the likes of Nissan, Toyota and Holden in the coming years. From the Australian perspective both Indian and Chinese utes are in the same bracket- how do you decide whether to go for a 2nd hand mainstream or a 1st hand Indian/Chinese ute? If they can make a dent in that second hand ute market that would be a significant win for both the Asian manufacturers.



Not really... Most gw owners of 4x4 are in the country, just visit the gw owners forums. Tradies in the city uses gw utes. 
The sales figures are published every month, gw is about 15 - 19 th place, anywhere between 600 - 900 a month sold. Mahindra is nowhere to be found and the manhindra owned saangyong sells about 100 cars a months.

Gw has also announced 3 more models for the Australian market, including its first 5 star Ancap rated vehicle. I have yet to see the new mahindra suv on the road.


----------



## Bobby

Chinese cars are cheap in every thing

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## gslv mk3

Mahindra have launched XV 500 in australia

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## Goodbye!

Götterdämmerung;4353389 said:


> K, but other Indian forumers may have them at hand, or else all your bragging are nothing but hot air. Chinese forumers have already posted stats for their car industry.
> 
> No stats = hot air



Before you dismiss anything as hot air, have a lookey here:

Sober Look: China's export figures: fudging or currency trading?
China Money Network &minus; April's Strong Exports Fuel Skepticism Over Chinese Trade Statistics - Tune in for China's Financial Markets and Investment Opportunities
China opens new front in war as yuan speculation distorts export data
China Exports Miss Forecasts as

You do realise that the numbers offered by the Chinese members themselves may be shady? With fudged data we have no contest.

In India there are no Chinese cars selling and for Indian manufacturers China must be a tough market to break in. EU/US manufacturers have the distinct advantage of a 100 year headstart in reputation here.


----------



## sweetgrape

Banana said:


> Ad Hominem over Ad Hominem!
> 
> Check the first few pages.
> 
> First drive: Australia


This is your so-called "proof", Ok, You win, hehe, keep it!!!


----------



## gslv mk3

sweetgrape said:


>



XUV 500 for you

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## ice bomb

Banana said:


> The ultimate benchmark of how Successful you as a group are is at the Civilizational Level.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How interesting, how about you open a new thread and explain to us mortals what this "civilizational level" is. I take it is not something you picked up from the Civilization 6?
> 
> 
> 
> Artificial Countries find solace in Per Capita Income, Literacy Rate, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> A new word! Artificial countries. How about you open a new thread and explain about that and which countries are "artificial". In the mean time do explain what "real country" you are coming from who dont care about those silly things as per capital income, education level and literacy rate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If these benchmarks are to be counted, why wouldn't we do it on a compounded basis since eternity.
> 
> 
> 
> Ehh, it is called UN Human Development Index measuring health, education and living standards among other things.But since you coming from a "real country", I assume you never heard about it.
> Indices & Data | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## sweetgrape

gslv mk3 said:


> XUV 500 for you



You keep it, for me, the XUV is ugly, And, like you don't trust chinese car, I don't trust indian products, till now, I don't use any indian products, hehe!!!

H6





H2





H7





GX7





S5





X80





CS35


----------



## Goodbye!

Götterdämmerung;4353810 said:


> Our market might be saturated but still bigger than your market of 1.2 b.
> 
> And our car companies are well positioned in every region of the world including having factories in all the main markets. What we keep here are the high-end products. Volkswagen alone has a revenue of almost 10 % of India's GDP.
> 
> BTW, I bet that you all would brag 24/7 for months to come if any of your brands would even crack 1 % of our market.



Hold on to your thoughts just a bit longer, time will make you irrelevant. We will overtake you and soon!

If you are so great a market, why are your own car companies looking out when they think growth? 

Also when you say you are larger car market than India are you counting German cars sold in India and elsewhere also as your market? 

We are selling a lot of Mercs, Audis and BMWs in the cities, but it is nowhere close to even 1% of the Indian car market.


----------



## gslv mk3

sweetgrape said:


> *You keep it, for me*, the XUV is ugly, And, like you don't trust chinese car, I don't trust indian products, till now, I don't use any indian products, hehe!!!
> ]



Thats purely personal


----------



## Banana

sweetgrape said:


> This is your so-called "proof", Ok, You win, hehe, keep it!!!



Do you agree now that Indian Cars are better than Chinese cars?



shuttler said:


> you are not making senses and out of logic always and commenting out of your tantrums
> 
> you cant even comprehend what I have written between my lines - english tutor!



One Chinese @rott was calling Fiat engine as Chinese Engine.  

And Chevy as a Chinese Car. BS.


----------



## Banana

ice bomb said:


> The ultimate benchmark of how Successful you as a group are is at the Civilizational Level.
> 
> 
> Artificial Countries find solace in Per Capita Income, Literacy Rate, etc.
> 
> If these benchmarks are to be counted, why wouldn't we do it on a compounded basis since eternity.



Can you type your post correctly?

I will reply afterwards.


----------



## sweetgrape

Banana said:


> Do you agree now that Indian Cars are better than Chinese cars?


You want my "agree", Ok, give "it" to you, not only these, I "agree" that indian industry are much "better" than chinese, I caculate that the gap must have "30 years", You are "on the par with" with German.
Do you mind wait a moment for China car? or the gap will be bigger.


----------



## gslv mk3

sweetgrape said:


>
























*BEML is Asia's second-largest manufacturer of earth moving equipment*


----------



## sweetgrape

gslv mk3 said:


>



So, Indian counterpart?



[/IMG]


----------



## gslv mk3

sweetgrape said:


> So, Indian counterpart?
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]



capacity??

well... this one


----------



## sweetgrape

Sany




This monster weight 1180 tons.










gslv mk3 said:


> capacity??



75M3


Seems it is off the topic a little, back:


----------



## Guynextdoor2

sweetgrape said:


> You want my "agree", Ok, give "it" to you, not only these, I "agree" that indian industry are much "better" than chinese, I caculate that the gap must have "30 years", You are "on the par with" with German.
> Do you mind wait a moment for China car? or the gap will be bigger.



Oh shut it. If you don't accept that there is something wrong with your Industrial POLICY, you're really off your knockers. no one blames the Chinese PEOPLE, all that we are saying is that the policy adopted by your govt allows for too much laxity and and encourages copying instead of innovation. it allows for substandard products to be easily brought out into the market.


----------



## timetravel

sweetgrape said:


> You want my "agree", Ok, give "it" to you, not only these, I "agree" that indian industry are much "better" than chinese, I caculate that the gap must have "30 years", You are "on the par with" with German.
> Do you mind wait a moment for China car? or the gap will be bigger.



is that a car...


----------



## Goodbye!

walle said:


> Not really... Most gw owners of 4x4 are in the country, just visit the gw owners forums. Tradies in the city uses gw utes.
> The sales figures are published every month, gw is about 15 - 19 th place, anywhere between 600 - 900 a month sold. Mahindra is nowhere to be found and the manhindra owned saangyong sells about 100 cars a months.



I see you are referring to figures posted at New Car Sales Figures April 2013 |*CarAdvice 

When they have listed Caterham, Ferrari, McLaren, Rolls-Royce	, Saab with 0 units sold, why do you think Mahindra does not figure in the list. It is because their importer has chosen not to share data. The contest is not over until it really is (Ford is packing up in Australia after having been there since 1925!), Can you pull up some authentic data for Mahindra utes sold in Mar/Apr 2013 then we can take this discussion forward? The Tata Xenon is also sold in parts of Australia BTW.


----------



## sweetgrape

Guynextdoor2 said:


> Oh shut it. If you don't accept that there is something wrong with your Industrial POLICY, you're really off your knockers. no one blames the Chinese PEOPLE, all that we are saying is that the policy adopted by your govt allows for too much laxity and and encourages copying instead of innovation. it allows for substandard products to be easily brought out into the market.


Are you speak for yourself, of represent for western to accuse china of infringe? 
Sorry, we don't copy indian products, why are you so mad? or you make excuse for you failure?!

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## sms

sweetgrape said:


> Are you speak for yourself, of represent for western to accuse china of infringe?
> Sorry, we don't copy indian products, why are you so mad? or you make excuse for you failure?!



Liar .. Chinese are real copy cats... one example Copy fo Bajaj Pulsar ...








> Fake pulsars from China
> 
> Just for fun
> 
> Original model
> Pulsar 150 2001 model
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fake
> Veli Motor VL150-26
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VL150-26-Velimotor
> 
> 
> Yinxiang YX200
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yinxiang Group > PRODUCTS >
> 
> 
> Pulsar 150 2005 model
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fake
> Zhongxing ZX200
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JIANGSU ZHONGXING MOTORCYCLE CO.,LTD.
> 
> Fake
> Giantco Tomahawk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GIANTCO Motor - motorcycles, scooters, engines



Let me know if you want more examples

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## Götterdämmerung

ice bomb said:


> Banana said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ultimate benchmark of how Successful you as a group are is at the Civilizational Level.
> 
> 
> Artificial Countries find solace in Per Capita Income, Literacy Rate, etc.
> 
> If these benchmarks are to be counted, why wouldn't we do it on a compounded basis since eternity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hahahaha, this thread has become a bollywoodesque circus.
> 
> Can you imagine to work with an Indian? Even when they make mistakes, they will twist the story, blame others and use unrelated parties until you just shut up.
> 
> In another thread I said India is a super power in bragging and blowing hot air and this thread show how right I have been.
Click to expand...


----------



## Anonymous user

Considering China's success today I find it laughable how people start coming up just to bash one product. Russia makes crap cars to but some superpowers here literally depend on them as a lifeline for weapons and other Hi Tech defense products. Hell my own country makes a better weapon systems then what some of these super powered countries can (considering our population size now that's a true laugh)

If this is a bashing point over cars I don't see whats the point really look at the bigger picture.

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## ice bomb

Götterdämmerung;4355693 said:


> ice bomb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hahahaha, this thread has become a bollywoodesque circus.
> 
> Can you imagine to work with an Indian? Even when they make mistakes, they will twist the story, blame others and use unrelated parties until you just shut up.
> 
> In another thread I said India is a super power in bragging and blowing hot air and this thread show how right I have been.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well it must because they are from a "real country" who care nothing about education, health and living standards.
> We who are from "artificial countries" obviously are unable to comprehend their positions. We care too much about those petty things unlike our indian member Banana.
Click to expand...

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## Götterdämmerung

ice bomb said:


> Götterdämmerung;4355693 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well it must because they are from a "real country" who care nothing about education, health and living standards.
> We who are from "artificial countries" obviously are unable to comprehend their positions. We care too much about those petty things unlike our indian member Banana.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, who needs clean streets, education, health care and enough food if one has Bollywood?
> 
> And dare you to point out their flaws, you will be called a racist, idiot and what not.
Click to expand...

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## ice bomb

Götterdämmerung;4356249 said:


> ice bomb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, who needs clean streets, education, health care and enough food if one has Bollywood?
> 
> And dare you to point out their flaws, you will be called a racist, idiot and what not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I should know better than be dragged down to their level. I will leave the playfield to our friend Banana then.
Click to expand...

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## Okemos

OMG, why is this thread still going? I mean yes, everyone knows Chinese cars are still substandard; otherwise, we would see Chinese cars occupying the world market just like other products. Is this even worth discussion? 

If this thread has become showcase of how Indian cars are great, well I would love to be enlightened, but it's kind of off topic here, lol.

Oh I just browsed through it quickly. It seems Indians bashing China or Chinese industrial policies again? gee. So anytime Chinese products are not that great, or something terrible happened in China, it's high time to bash china? 

Well genius, China is a "developing" country. Vehicles are pretty much the high end of consumer products that require both material technology and design, etc, which all take time and lots of resources.


----------



## Nan Yang

Chinese trains exports.

Gurgaon Metro





http://www.sinofed.org/en/content/china-southern-locomotive-supplies-trains-gurgaon-metro

Mumbai Metro





Ankara_Metro





Izmir Metro





Estonia





Georgia





Rio de Janeiro





Hong Kong MTR




CNR to sell 23 diesel locomotives to Hong Kong MTR - Railly News | Dailly railway news

China and Iran sign US$13-bln railway deal
China and Iran sign US$13-bln railway deal - Railly News | Dailly Railway News & Magazine in English + Deutsch, Français, Español & P


Chinese train maker granted US patents
Chinese train maker granted US patents

China company to revitalize Serbian railways
China company to revitalize Serbian railways |Companies |chinadaily.com.cn

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## gslv mk3

Nan Yang said:


> Chinese trains exports.
> Gurgaon Metro



It was a siemens train,manufactured in china



Nan Yang said:


> Mumbai Metro



The picture is a beml manufactured train (india)


----------



## Nan Yang

gslv mk3 said:


> The metro coach you posted is BEML,made in india
> 
> BEML LIMITED, Public Sector Undertaking of Government of India, Ministry of Defence
> 
> Kinglong buses are just terrible,I dont know how the chinese metro trains would fare



China's train exports.

Mumbai metro - Correct picture




Gurgaon Metro, Delhi




http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...-metro-rail-service-delhi-metro/1/217107.html

Ankara_Metro





Izmir Metro





Estonia





Georgia





Rio de Janeiro





Hong Kong MTR




CNR to sell 23 diesel locomotives to Hong Kong MTR - Railly News | Dailly railway news

China and Iran sign US$13-bln railway deal
http://www.raillynews.com/china-and-iran-sign-us13-bln-railway-deal/


Chinese train maker granted US patents
Chinese train maker granted US patents

China company to revitalize Serbian railways
China company to revitalize Serbian railways |Companies |chinadaily.com.cn

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## gslv mk3

Nan Yang said:


> China's train exports.



do you have a comprehension problem??

this is BEML designed and manufactured train used in delhi and jaipur metros,not chinese


----------



## gslv mk3

Beml designed rolling stock,for banglore metro






Beml,for jaipur and delhi metro






Bombardier made in India

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## Nan Yang

gslv mk3 said:


> do you have a comprehension problem??
> 
> this is BEML designed and manufactured train used in delhi and jaipur metros,not chinese



Its this one. From your India Today.





First set of Rapid Metro Rail coaches arrive in Gurgaon from China : North, News - India Today


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

Mods haven't closed this thread yet?
What is it still doing in world affairs.


----------



## rott

jhungary said:


> dude, my word are straight and simple, VW is NOT A CHINESE BRAND........
> 
> You cannot call VW a Chinese brand even a Chinese company bought the brand, VW is and ALWAYS is German brand. They done their research in Germany, they sell their car IN GERMANY. There are nothing Chinese about VW except for the company that own it.



You need to visit a psychiatrist... and quick. The sooner the better. 
If a shrink shows you a picture of a vase would you picture it as two people kissing?

So in your words you're trying to tell us, if you buy a bottle of coke from a shop it's not yours as yet because they've done a lot of research in trying to make one? And coke is being sold all around the world. Is this your concept? 
Isn't VW being sold wordwide? 

Man WTF is wrong with your head?


----------



## rott

timetravel said:


> Chinese focus more on looks only. Chinese cars look good from outside. But the performance is not good.
> 
> Indian car manufacturers have been focusing over the years on the performance of the cars and in their own R&D efforts.
> 
> Indian cars are tougher and more reliable and lasts for decades while the Chinese would only last a few years.
> 
> Indian cars - Safe, Reliable and UNIQUE
> 
> Chinese cars - Unsafe, Unreliable and NOT UNIQUE
> 
> Chinese cars would never be a success in India as they cannot give the reliability of a Indian made car.



I had to hold my laughter. You can really pull things out of your A$$.

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## jhungary

rott said:


> You need to visit a psychiatrist... and quick. The sooner the better.
> If a shrink shows you a picture of a vase would you picture it as two people kissing?
> 
> So in your words you're trying to tell us, if you buy a bottle of coke from a shop it's not yours as yet because they've done a lot of research in trying to make one? And coke is being sold all around the world. Is this your concept?
> Isn't VW being sold wordwide?
> 
> Man WTF is wrong with your head?



Mate, do you know how public liability company work?

First of all, Chinese company does own the brand VW China &#22823;&#20247;&#27773;&#36710;(&#20013;&#22269, but that particular division is own by VW group, which in term owned by Porsche Automobil Holding SE, which is based in Stuttgart, Baden-Württemberg, Germany 

When you talk about the name VW, it does not automatically refer to VW China, instead it refer to VW Automotive Group (the German one)who trade marked the name "*VW*", which is the *PARENT* of VW China, *VW China bought the right of the name from VW Group*, I don't know it also transfer ownership there. How does that work? Can you explain that to me?

So, what then China own VW AG now, because they subsidise their motor venture and bought the right of their name to it???? WOW< grade A Chinese logic

Let's stop the Sarcasms here

VW Group never owned by Chinese nor did Porsche Automobile Holding SE owned by Chinese.

You need to get this facts right. VW China is a whole subsidiary of VW AG, Germany

*VW AG Germany is the Parent Company of VW China, VW China is own by German, not the other way around.*

Volkswagen Group China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Volkswagen Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Porsche - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*So you are calling a German man bought a coke plant in China, and that German man and suddenly become Chinese once he bought the Coke plant in China?? *

*Dude, who is not making sense here *

Secondly, shuttler refuse to call foreign company owned by an Indian Company and INDIAN COMPANY (case in point Jaguar), yet he call VW a Chinese Brand. So, I don't know what if that's not Good Old Chinese Double Standard 

You guys mess up the fact, not me.

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## East Asia United

Banana said:


> Chinese automakers depend too much on foreign technology - China.org.cn[/url]
> 
> 
> 
> Does your country even make Cars?
> 
> No!
> 
> The Whole World laughs at you.



China produced 20 million automobiles in 2012. India produced 4 million, lower than South Korea or Germany.

Who laughs at whom? China is even higher than America.

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## rott

jhungary said:


> Mate, do you know how public liability company work?
> 
> First of all, Chinese company does own the brand VW China &#22823;&#20247;&#27773;&#36710;(&#20013;&#22269, but that particular division is own by VW group, which in term owned by Porsche Automobil Holding SE, which is based in Stuttgart, Baden-Württemberg, Germany
> 
> When you talk about the name VW, it does not automatically refer to VW China, instead it refer to VW Automotive Group (the German one)who trade marked the name "*VW*", which is the *PARENT* of VW China, *VW China bought the right of the name from VW Group*, I don't know it also transfer ownership there. How does that work? Can you explain that to me?
> 
> So, what then China own VW AG now, because they subsidise their motor venture and bought the right of their name to it???? WOW< grade A Chinese logic
> 
> Let's stop the Sarcasms here
> 
> VW Group never owned by Chinese nor did Porsche Automobile Holding SE owned by Chinese.
> 
> You need to get this facts right. VW China is a whole subsidiary of VW AG, Germany
> 
> *VW AG Germany is the Parent Company of VW China, VW China is own by German, not the other way around.*
> 
> Volkswagen Group China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Volkswagen Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Porsche - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> *So you are calling a German man bought a coke plant in China, and that German man and suddenly become Chinese once he bought the Coke plant in China?? *
> 
> *Dude, who is not making sense here *
> 
> Secondly, shuttler refuse to call foreign company owned by an Indian Company and INDIAN COMPANY (case in point Jaguar), yet he call VW a Chinese Brand. So, I don't know what if that's not Good Old Chinese Double Standard
> 
> You guys mess up the fact, not me.



My bad, I misinterpreted your previous post.


----------



## Anonymous user

Banana said:


> The topic is simple.
> 
> Indian Cars (Foreign Companies or Indian) Both are better made than Chinese Cars (Foreign Companies or Chinese).



Wrong, the topic as per your article is about Chinese cars below par against Korean and Japanese cars

_"Car industry insiders say, Chinese car makers could learn from their Japanese and South Korean counterparts, as they improved the quality of their cars significantly in just a decade, and were successful in gaining a huge market share in the Western market."_

So the standard of comparison of par the lowest would be a Korean car, from a developed nation standpoint anything below a Korean car is considered below par. And that includes Indian cars which you trying to lord up.

What is stupid is your ego riding over this India cars > Chinese cars when both are below par category. If Australia was so popular Indian cars show me a International Australia car rental company that has one for rent?

I don't have any issues with the shortcomings of an Indian automobiles since the country is still developing but your ego bloody takes the cake.

In the word of an Ex Infosys manager I knew who was driving me to dinner "Now that I have switched from a Tata to a Hyundai they let me park up front"

Check your damn ego at the door.

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## gslv mk3

karim3343 said:


> China produced 20 million automobiles in 2012. India produced 4 million, lower than South Korea or Germany.
> 
> Who laughs at whom? China is even higher than America.



Every one is laughing at you-A pakistani masquerading as a South Korean and Basking in chinese glory

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## gslv mk3

Anonymous user said:


> So the standard of comparison of par the lowest would be a Korean car, from a developed nation standpoint anything below a Korean car is considered below par. And that includes Indian cars which you trying to lord up.
> 
> What is stupid is your ego riding over this India cars > Chinese cars when both are below par category. If Australia was so popular Indian cars show me a International Australia car rental company that has one for rent?
> 
> *I don't have any issues with the shortcomings of an Indian automobiles since the country is still developing but your ego bloody takes the cake.*
> 
> Check your damn ego at the door.



May be thats why we were able to find lot of customers in developing nations in Latin America South east Asia etc

Check this out -XUV 500 Australia







http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-reviews-road-tests/mahindra_xuv500_review
also see the chinese competition - A ladder frame SUV which is also underpowered compared to monocoque XUV,and it only have 5 speed gearbox..


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## shuttler

gslv mk3 said:


>



what a piece of indian junk on the road!
a cheap copy of one of these:


----------



## jbond197

Anonymous user said:


> In the word of an Ex Infosys manager I knew who was driving me to dinner "*Now that I have switched from a Tata to a Hyundai they let me park up front"*



Where? In Bangalore? Are you sure you are not making that up to satisfy your badly hurt ego???

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## gslv mk3

shuttler said:


> what a piece of indian junk on the road!
> a cheap copy of one of these:



Only a High IQ Chinese brain can find similarity among these.......I cannot find anything except for four wheels.We have proper design departments and you guys have even copied Land Rover Evoques,Jeeps and one to one copy ofDaewoo Matizes (Chevy OQ) 











Also that is an Indian car,not a chinese copycat car..It essentialy triumphs your body on frame Great Wall in Aussie market.OTOH this is what you do..Copy an Indian motorbike...

Indian Bajaj pulsar 150-2005 model






Cheap copy-Zhongxing ZX200






Bajaj Pulsar 2008 model






Fake
Giantco Tomahawk


----------



## East Asia United

gslv mk3 said:


> Every one is laughing at you-A pakistani masquerading as a South Korean and Basking in chinese glory



Yea, those third-world Pakistanis that are no different than Indians. I'm 100% Korean. Why would I post a study on the lower IQ of ALL South Asians if I was a ****?

But, like a typical Yindooo, you're off-topic yet again. Typical response when someone catches your people being retarded.

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## gslv mk3

karim3343 said:


> Yea, those third-world Pakistanis that are no different than Indians. *I'm 100% Korean*. Why would I post a study on the lower IQ of ALL South Asians if I was a ****?
> 
> But, like a typical Yindooo, you're off-topic yet again. Typical response when someone catches your people being retarded.



Yeah,and you've shown that many times...


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## East Asia United

gslv mk3 said:


> Only a High IQ Chinese brain can find similarity among these.......I cannot find anything except for four wheels.We have proper design departments and you guys have even copied Land Rover Evoques,Jeeps and one to one copy ofDaewoo Matizes (Chevy OQ)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also that is an Indian car,not a chinese copycat car..It essentialy triumphs your body on frame Great Wall in Aussie market.OTOH this is what you do..Copy an Indian motorbike...
> 
> Indian Bajaj pulsar 150-2005 model
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheap copy-Zhongxing ZX200
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bajaj Pulsar 2008 model
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fake
> Giantco Tomahawk



Showing off your third world vehicles? Haha, lol.

If I plastered this page with Korean or Japanese vehicles you would all be defeated. Stop trolling.

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## gslv mk3

karim3343 said:


> Showing off your third world vehicles? Haha, lol.
> 
> If I plastered this page with *Korean or Japanese* vehicles you would all be defeated. Stop trolling.



Yeah,You can continue fooling around
Korean and Japanese vehicles are also available in the Indian Market,and Indian companies have triumphed them at many fields.

I absolutely loved it when XUV kicked the butt of Suzuki Grand Vitara in Desert storm Rally











Japanese Kawasaki is now selling rebadged Bajaj pulsar 200 NS in Indonesia.


----------



## East Asia United

gslv mk3 said:


> Yeah,You can continue fooling around
> 
> Korean and Japanese vehicles are also available in the Indian Market,and *Indian companies have triumphed them at many fields.*
> 
> I absolutely loved it when XUV kicked the butt of Suzuki Grand Vitara in Desert storm Rally





Yep! Indian cars are the best in the world! 3rd world arrogance is quite stunning actually. If we didn't keep making technology transfer you would be living with 19th century British infrastructure, using bicycles and horse-drawn vehicles to get around.

Indian cars are not worth the steaming pile of horse manure that they drive on in the streets of India.

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## gslv mk3

karim3343 said:


> Yep! Indian cars are the best in the world! 3rd world arrogance is quite stunning actually. If we didn't keep making technology transfer you would be living with 19th century British infrastructure, using bicycles and horse-drawn vehicles to get around.



When did *you *did a technology transfer in the First place??

Yes Indian firms did compete with companies like suzuki and Hyundai in India and Abroad and Won Customers..May be you cant comprehend that simple fact.


----------



## East Asia United

gslv mk3 said:


> When did *you *did a technology transfer in the First place??
> 
> Yes Indian firms did compete with companies like suzuki and Hyundai in India and Abroad and Won Customers..May be you cant comprehend that simple fact.



Won customers, which is why they are practically unheard of, but Toyota, Hyundai, Nissan, Kia, Mazda, Mitsubishi etc. are household names.

Keep up the hope though!

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## gslv mk3

Indian Designed Cars for Suzuki

Alto






Ertiga






X-Alpha

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## gslv mk3

karim3343 said:


> Won customers, which is why they are practically unheard of, but Toyota, Hyundai, Nissan, Kia, Mazda, Mitsubishi etc. are household names.
> 
> Keep up the hope though!



Worlds second largest bus Manufacturer,fourth Largest truck manufacturer and 19 largest car manufacturer -*Tata Motors*

















I guess tata daewoo is much known in South Korea..also Land Rover and Jaguar are two reputed names..arent they?


----------



## East Asia United

gslv mk3 said:


> Worlds second largest bus Manufacturer,fourth Largest truck manufacturer and 19 largest car manufacturer -*Tata Motors*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess tata daewoo is much known in South Korea..also Land Rover and Jaguar are two reputed names..arent they?



Tata Daewoo is:

1: Heavy commercial vehicle manufacturer

2: Was invented and created by Koreans, not Indians. You just bought it, something that anybody can do. Just because China bought massive interest in Volvo, doesn't mean they created Volvo, right? 

Same with India buddy, it works both ways. Land Rover and Jaguar, two British companies simply bought by Indians. Means absolutely nothing. Korea can go and buy large portion of Microsoft. So what? Does that mean we created Microsoft? Stop being silly.

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## gslv mk3

karim3343 said:


> Tata Daewoo is:
> 
> 1: Heavy commercial vehicle manufacturer
> 
> 2: Was invented and created by Koreans, not Indians. You just bought it, something that anybody can do. Just because China bought massive interest in Volvo, doesn't mean they created Volvo, right?
> 
> Same with India buddy, it works both ways. Land Rover and Jaguar, two British companies simply bought by Indians. Means absolutely nothing. Korea can go and buy large portion of Microsoft. So what? Does that mean we created Microsoft? Stop being silly.



Tata Daewoo,Jaguar and Land rover are *Tata Brands*.Well,leave Jaguar Land Rover,tata took huge strides to bring the bankrupt daewoo commercial vehicles Back on Track-from developing Tata Novus to Tata Prima (designed by Giorgetto Giugiaro).It has more involvement of Tata R&D than any other tata owned foreign brand.

And we did had trucks before we brought tata daewoo


----------



## Anonymous user

jbond197 said:


> Where? In Bangalore? Are you sure you are not making that up to satisfy your badly hurt ego???



Actually in was in Hyderabad, at a restaurant on the top with a Jungle theme and a metal ball outside. It was called Oasis or something. This was many many years ago so I could be wrong.

Personally I only owned a Japanese car once, my previous and current rides are bmw's. I was thinking of my car when he said that but out of respect to the host I just agreed with what he said. I do like the guy and he was being honest so whats the problem here?


----------



## Anonymous user

gslv mk3 said:


> May be thats why we were able to find lot of customers in developing nations in Latin America South east Asia etc
> 
> Check this out -XUV 500 Australia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mahindra XUV500: review | carsguide.com.au
> also see the chinese competition - A ladder frame SUV which is also underpowered compared to monocoque XUV,and it only have 5 speed gearbox..




So you mean to say these SUV's can be rented from the international rental companies? Did you read my post or didn't you?

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## gslv mk3

Anonymous user said:


> So you mean to say these SUV's can be rented from the international rental companies? Did you read my post or didn't you?



So having a better product than Chinese competition in australian market is not enough 



Anonymous user said:


> Actually in was in Hyderabad, at a restaurant on the top with a Jungle theme and a metal ball outside. It was called Oasis or something. *This was many many years ago so I could be wrong*.



Hmmm......

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## sweetgrape

Poor indian, still dig the thread out, want to prove chinese car "below par" or "below indian car"?
H6
Price:95~150 Thousand Yuan

















H8


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## sweetgrape

H2


















S7
Price:114~153 Thousand Yuan


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## gslv mk3

sweetgrape said:


> Poor indian, still dig the thread out, want to prove chinese care "below par" or "below indian car"?
> H6



prize in dollars ??


XUV 500 Diesel 4 X 4 (H6 specification in paranthesis)



























Power-140 Bhp(103kW) @ 3750 rpm (110kW)

Torque-330 Nm(310Nm) This is what matters in an SUV...

*Suspension*

Front-McPherson type with anti-roll bar(MacPherson)

Rear-Multilink type with anti-roll bar(Double wishbone)

Tires	-P235/65 R17, Radial Tubeless(225/65 R17)

read on..

http://mahindraxuv500.com/product/whatmakesitunique.htm


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## Anonymous user

gslv mk3 said:


> So having a better product than Chinese competition in australian market is not enough



No I said both are considered sub par.... Korean and Japanese Cars are considered par in accordance to the article. I used International Rental companies as an indication of a Cars reliability and serviceability, international car rental firms favor cars of both nature and hence if a car is considered par in that country the International Rental companies operating there will carry it.

I am Australian PR and I use thrifty rental services very often and that's what the airport service manager told me. Truth be told though I said Korean cars are considered par I will generally stick to a Honda or a Nissan.

If you are going to reply and quote me, stick to to intention of my statement and not twist it around.


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## sweetgrape

Tiggo
Price:85~124 Thousand Yuan


















Tiggo 5





















gslv mk3 said:


> prize in dollars and specifications??


Why not google it? don't too lazy, indian, because of so much lazy indian and just like talking like you in india, so indian so poor!

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## sweetgrape

X80
Price:120~182 Thousand Yuan


















GS5
Price:124~230 Thousand Yuan

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## sweetgrape

CS35
Price:79~93 Thousand Yuan


















S5
Price:90~136 Thousand Yuan

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## gslv mk3

sweetgrape said:


> Why not google it? don't too lazy, indian, because of so much lazy indian and just like talking like you in india, so indian so poor!



I asked you to convvert prize in yuan to dollars..


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## shuttler

gslv mk3 said:


> I asked you to convvert prize in yuan to dollars..



"asked"
why dont you find it out yourself!

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## East Asia United

gslv mk3 said:


> I asked you to convvert prize in yuan to dollars..



Lazy Indian. "I said"

Hahaha!

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## shuttler

*Sinotruk Howo A7 won the prize in Peru race*

June 30,2013

http://www.sinotruck-global.com/home/NEWS/2013/0705







*HOWO-A7 6x4 tractor truck*































The annual Peruvian heavy truck 1000 m Sprint in basaruer Cora opened the curtain, *Sinotruk HOWO A7* with IWC, Kenworth, Freightliner, Volvo and other international brands of 35 paragraph 15 units of the tractor truck race vehicles competition. 

Competition in the tractor unit, after several rounds of intense competition, Sinotruk HOWO-A7 420 horsepower tractor truck in 53.27 seconds to beat the results, including Volvo, including all opponents, won the first prize.

Cerro de Pasco is located in Peru and Central Plateau with an average elevation of 4,500 meters, is the world's highest cities in the world, on the truck in the harsh environment adaptability, stability, power and so demanding, it also making the area a number of well-known truck manufacturers demonstrate product quality and brand strength testing ground.

The competition for the 1000 meters knockout competition is divided into two units tractor truck and dump truck.
sinotruk,sinotruk howo,shacman,howo truck,shacman truck,Sinotruck & Equipment Co.,Ltd

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## Banana

​*Dead Dummy in Chinese Car.​*
CHINESE cars were tipped to dominate the budget-car class and challenge established brands in half the time it took Japanese and South Korean companies - but the bubble has burst before it's properly inflated.

After some early success since becoming the first Chinese brand to go on sale in Australia, Great Wall Motors has hit reverse and its Chinese peers are struggling to get into first gear.

*Official figures for the first five months of the year show Great Wall Motors deliveries are down by 35 per cent compared with the same period the previous year - in a record market that is up by 4.5 per cent.*

Other Chinese brands such as Foton have also had a stalled start. *After announcing big plans two years ago Foton has sold fewer than 300 pick-ups in that time.*

Budget brand Geely has still restricted its sales to Western Australia and Chery's small cars have been stymied by newer competition from established brands. Chery sales are also down by 35 per cent.

The Chery J1 hatchback was the cheapest car in Australia in almost two decades when it went on sale with a $9990 drive-away price in 2011, and is now available with a "pay half now, half later" deal. But it too has failed to rock the sales charts.

"Sales have slowed for now but they will recover," says Daniel Cotterill, the spokesman for Ateco, distributor of Great Wall Motors and Chery passenger cars and the Foton truck range.

"It's been frustrating for us and the dealers to not have more new models available to us as quickly as we would like."

Other hurdles: more than 20,000 Great Wall Motors and Chery vehicles were recalled in August 2012 for having asbestos components in their engines.

Chinese cars tend to earn poor to scores in crash tests (between two and four stars when the modern industry norm is five stars).

But the companies hope to have a reversal of fortunes with a number of new generation Chinese vehicles made to international standards due in local showrooms in the next two years.

"There are new models in the pipeline," said Cotterill.

"We are confident in the ability of the Chinese to respond the Australian car market and boost sales."

Chinese car sales fall in Australia | News.com.au

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## Banana

Anonymous user said:


> Wrong, the topic as per your article is about Chinese cars below par against Korean and Japanese cars
> 
> _"Car industry insiders say, Chinese car makers could learn from their Japanese and South Korean counterparts, as they improved the quality of their cars significantly in just a decade, and were successful in gaining a huge market share in the Western market."_



BS.

This is the topic of the discussion.



Banana said:


> BS.
> 
> India Cars are better engineered and have better quality build than the Chinese ones.






> So the standard of comparison of par the lowest would be a Korean car, from a developed nation standpoint anything below a Korean car is considered below par. And that includes Indian cars which you trying to lord up.



Indian Auto Companies are ahead on the Curve than Chinese Auto Companies.


----------



## antonius123

Banana said:


> BS.
> 
> This is the topic of the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian Auto Companies are ahead on the Curve than Chinese Auto Companies.



Based on what?

What i see although chinese car still bellow par, Indian car is farther bellow.
Some chinese car has penetrated West Europe and Australia market; even in developing countries chinese car still much preferred than indian's.

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## Anonymous user

Banana said:


> BS.
> 
> This is the topic of the discussion.
> 
> Indian Auto Companies are ahead on the Curve than Chinese Auto Companies.



Then change the title from "*Chinese cars 'still below par*" to "*Indian Auto Companies are ahead on the Curve than Chinese Auto Companies*" you moron

And why don't the articles you posted originally support that, do you know the principals of a discussion?!?

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## rott

Anonymous user said:


> Then change the title from "*Chinese cars 'still below par*" to "*Indian Auto Companies are ahead on the Curve than Chinese Auto Companies*" you moron
> 
> And why don't the articles you posted originally support that, do you know the principals of a discussion?!?



You do not need to take him seriously, it's in their nature to brag. I've known Indians for far too long. It simply reflects on their inferiority complex.

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## antonius123

antonius123 said:


> Based on what?
> 
> What i see although chinese car still bellow par, Indian car is farther bellow.
> Some chinese car has penetrated West Europe and Australia market; even in developing countries chinese car still much preferred than indian's.



Nobody of indians dare to answer my question 


*Great Wall H5 shines on the shores of Lake Ladoga (Russia)
*

2013-7-4 16:39:34 










Great Wall's Diesel-2.0T Haval H5






















*Different views of Great Wall Hover (Haval) H5
*
www.gwm-global.com

In the just-concluded "Grand Tourism" competition of Ladoga Trophy 2013, Great Wall H5 finished 9th and 13th in the dune and beach stages. In the same category were over 50 other brands like Mitsubishi, Toyota, Jeep, Hummer and Russian auto brands.


Starting in 1997, Ladoga Trophy is one of Russia's most famous off-road races and saw its 17th edition this year. Stretching on 1,200 kilometers, the route which is generally in Leningrad Region and the Republic of Karelia, starts and ends in St. Petersburg. The race involves 9 classes, including 3 tourism categories and 6 competition categories. 

A special stage of 120 kilometers is included. Due to tough roads and harsh weather, "Ladoga" has become a byword for courage, stamina, passion and extreme sports, attracting adventurers from around the world every year. 178 teams entered for this year's race. Great Wall H5 fielded by "Eurocom Auto-Trade", GWM's tier-2 distributor in Russia is the only Chinese auto brand.

Great Wall H5 making its debut in the race was changed according to the competition rules, with its engine and transmission unchanged. The model finished the 8-day race by its outstanding performance without any fault.

Great Wall SUV has performed strongly in various competitions at home and abroad in recent years. 

It has competed in the Dakar Rally for four years in a raw and come out on top with the sixth place. The brilliant competition results and superior auto performance have earned Great Wall SUV growing interest and trust from consumers. Great Wall SUV has retained the domestic sales title in SUV segment for nine consecutive years and taken the lead to achieve cumulative sales of 600,000 units. It has become a model with the largest cumulative sales among all Chinese brands and all Chinese models priced above 100,000 RMB.


----------



## Anonymous user

rott said:


> You do not need to take him seriously, it's in their nature to brag. I've known Indians for far too long. It simply reflects on their inferiority complex.



Hi Rott,

Was going to reply on this but didn't get the time, I can't say I agree with that because I also worked with Indians for a long time and the ones I worked with generally have been great and warm chaps. Okay some might brag more than others but small stuff and who doesn't like to brag I suppose.

Of course there is another who loves tooting their horn with no substance and usually for these we would tell them to get off our account. So maybe that's why I don't see this group quite often 

Speaking of Great I saw this article the other day and was thinking would the CEO of Great Wall lead the company to become like what Hyundai is today?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-04/great-wall-of-china-uses-military-precision-in-suv-battle-cars.html


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## shuttler

antonius123 said:


> Nobody of indians dare to answer my question
> 
> 
> *Great Wall H5 shines on the shores of Lake Ladoga (Russia)
> *
> 
> 2013-7-4 16:39:34



Perfect!
#2154
http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/90375-chinese-economy-news-updates-144.html


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## shuttler

I would have thought the indian cars are shooting up the roof after seeing so many cheerleaders mudslinging on our auto-industry!

Tata Offers First Car Buyback as Sales Plummet: Corporate India
Mar 6, 2013 6:45 PM GMT+0800

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## shuttler

*JAC Commercial Vehicles Achieves Record Export by the End of April 2013	*

2013-5-23

JAC Commercial Vehicles Achieves Record Export by the End of April 2013--JAC MOTORS






In May 2013, JAC released the export data for April. JAC exported 3887 units&#8217; commercial vehicles in April 2013, creating a new record in history. And from January to April, the accumulative sales of JAC commercial vehicles have broken through 10000 units which have fulfilled 40.54% of the annual sales target, up by 11.26%. Among them, the exports of light-duty trucks have reached 10057 units, fulfilling 48.58% of the whole year exports target, up by 4.35%. The exports of light-duty trucks has been maintained the top position and the leading superiority has been expanded.

In 2013, JAC has stepped up its efforts in upgrade of products construction, accurately held the development trend of international light-truck markets, and actively adopted different marketing strategies. To guarantee Algeria, Venezuela and other important markets demands, JAC deepen 4C marketing practice and steadily enhance end-markets sales volume in critical markets. The new generation light-duty truck N-series has launched onto global markets successfully this year.

In the structure of products, the high-end products with 4DA1 series engine manufactured by JAC and other international brands power has occupied by 80%. And the image brand of JAC light-duty truck has been greatly enhanced. The sample of new generation high-end light duty truck N-series have been launched onto Columbia, Mexico, Chile, Malaysia and total 16 countries.

With the entering of new models, the sales of JAC commercial vehicles will sustainable increase in May.


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## shuttler

JAC exports 590 heavy trucks to Venezuela

By Carmen Lee From Gasgoo.com
June 19, 2013

















Gasgoo.com (Shanghai June 19) - Anhui-based Jianghuai Automobile exported 590 heavy trucks to Venezuela, Anhui News reported today. The export order is the first of its scale this year.

Jianghuai, also known as JAC Motor, manufactured 3,241 heavy trucks last month, up 79.3 percent from last May. 12,456 JAC heavy trucks have been sold over the first five months of this year, representing year-on-year growth of 38.6 percent.

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## Anony

kbd-raaf said:


> Indeed.
> 
> However, I find it interesting is that when I drove the Mahindra Pik Up (essentially a Mahindra Bolero) I found that it is on the same level of build and ride quality as the latest gen X240. Mahindra has a great opportunity to improve their offerings in Australia by aggressively promoting the Scorpio and the XUV500 etc here, but they choose not too.
> 
> I actually provided an analysis of this for my marketing unit as part of my degree. Might upload it here if anybody is interested.



*Please upload.* I am a analyst in Kolkata based firm, trying to nodge a chance in HSBC.


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## gslv mk3

East Asia United said:


> Lazy Indian. "I said"
> 
> Hahaha!



Pathetic false flag troll I said


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## gslv mk3

shuttler said:


> *Sinotruk Howo A7 won the prize in Peru race*



*Mahindra Scorpio speeds to victory in Rally dos Sertoes,Brazil
*








Mumbai: Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd. (M&M), the market leader in the utility vehicles segment in India, recently created a path-breaking record at the Rally dos Sertoes in Brazil, which is considered to be one of the world&#8217;s toughest rallies. The company&#8217;s Scorpio Pick Up, piloted by Brazilian motoring enthusiast Ricardo Augusto de Souza Campos, delivered an exceptional performance, securing third place in the T2 category for cars and pick ups. The T2 category is for cars that have not undergone a great deal of modification.

&#8220;We are absolutely delighted with this milestone victory and proud of the fact that Mahindra is the first Indian company to participate in this incredibly tough event. This achievement is a tribute to the rugged build and durability of the Scorpio Pick Up which held its own against global competition. My congratulations to the winning team,&#8221; said Mr. Pravin Shah, Executive Vice President, International Operations, Automotive Sector, Mahindra and Mahindra Ltd.

Ricardo Augusto de Souza Campos, known to Brazilians as RASC, used to pilot trucks. He liked the Mahindra brand of vehicles and owned a single cab pick up. Enthused by the great performance delivered by the vehicle, he decided to participate with his Scorpio pick up in the Rally dos Sertões with his son &#8217;RASC Campos&#8217;. The father son duo did very well considering that only 33 of the 66 cars and pick-ups completed the grueling event. They not only finished 31st overall but also third in the T2 category. The effort saw Mahindra&#8217;s Brazilian partner, Bramont, step in with sponsorship, while Govesa Mahindra, the Mahindra dealer in Brasilia, helped with service support.

The Rally dos Sertoes is one of the toughest events in the world, second only to the mighty Dakar rally. The rally typically follows a treacherous route across Brazilian jungles and swampy terrain and this year&#8217;s edition was no different.

The Scorpio Pick Up was made almost entirely to stock standard specifications, aside from the required safety and structural modifications demanded by the regulations. Some of the modifications made were an FIA safety roll-cage fitted along with special rally seats. The vehicle also incorporated a snorkel air intake, a sump and transmission guard, a plastic windshield, electrical safety gear along with a host of navigation and rally aids, as well as radio and GPS systems. The chassis was also strengthened at key points, as mandated. The only addition which differed from standard specifications was the fitment of rally shock absorbers which the T2 regulators permitted. A larger 220-litre fuel tank was mounted in the load bed and the vehicle sported a trendy red and white look, echoing the Mahindra corporate colours.


Mahindra Scorpio speeds to victory in Rally dos Sertoes,Brazil


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## shuttler

gslv mk3 said:


> Mahindra Scorpio speeds to victory in Rally dos Sertoes,Brazil



the other competitors must have been scared away by the ugly design of that indian car!


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## gslv mk3

shuttler said:


> the other competitors must have been scared away by the ugly design of that indian car!



A pathetic attemt-It is a pick up truck...


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## StarCraft_ZT

gslv mk3 said:


> It is a pick up truck...



Well actually, pick up truck, by Ford F150 standard, you need improvement.


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## gslv mk3

szft517 said:


> Well actually, pick up truck, by Ford F150 standard, you need improvement.



I am glad,you didnt say Dodge Ram ..That is a mahindra utility pickup sold in international markets,Not a lifestyle pick up type.

These are our best,for now

Mahindra Getaway






Tata Xenon


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## Wright

Tata group should have bought Hyundai instead of land rover and jaguar.


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## LiberalAtheist

Japan makes the best cars in this part of the neighborhood no questions asked.


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## Shardul.....the lion

Tata xenon is awesome is at par with any international pick ups- .......... in the same price range or little higher.



LiberalAtheist said:


> Japan makes the best cars in this part of the neighborhood no questions asked.



In India, korean carmaker hyundai is more popular than japanese or american or european car maker

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## BeyondHeretic

Shinigami said:


> yes india manufactures and exports alot of cars, from both indian and non indian companies
> 
> mahindra is an indian company thats known for tractors and SUVs like these
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nano is just the tip and it is the cheapest car of tata. but they make a lot more than just cars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> then there are the Modded limited edition cars like these
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and dont even get me started on the motorbikes



LOL @ the indian porsche


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## gslv mk3

BeyondHeretic said:


> LOL @ the indian porsche



Which car looks like a porshe to you??


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## BeyondHeretic

gslv mk3 said:


> Which car looks like a porshe to you??



they all look like something to me , a porsche , an audi , a hyundai and a Range rover


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## gslv mk3

BeyondHeretic said:


> they all look like something to me , a porsche , an audi , a hyundai and a Range rover



Find a similar looking car from porshe,audi,hyundai and Range Rover then.........

Oh..and Do you know that *Range Rover is owned by an Indian???*


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## BeyondHeretic

gslv mk3 said:


> Find a similar looking car from porshe,audi,hyundai and Range Rover then.........
> 
> Oh..and Do you know that *Range Rover is owned by an Indian???*



Did you know European football clubs are owned by arabs?


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## gslv mk3

BeyondHeretic said:


> Did you know European football clubs are owned by arabs?



Wah..Kya bath hai..comparing Football clubs to a car manufacturer.*Tata own Jaguar Land Rover,its designs and technology*..We have an Indian F1 team and an Indian Factory team is participating 125cc Moto GP, kid

Well,find a car from porshe,audi,hyundai and Range Rover,that looks similar to Indian cars


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## BeyondHeretic

gslv mk3 said:


> Wah..Kya bath hai..comparing Football clubs to a car manufacturer..We have a F1 team and a Moto GP team kid
> 
> Well,find a similar looking car from porshe,audi,hyundai and Range Rover



I don't need to find such cars , anyone with working eyes can tell how these are cheaper versions of expensive cars for indian consumers , and I don't mean to be offensive by that , it's just funny the way that indian porsche looks like


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## gslv mk3

BeyondHeretic said:


> I don't need to find such cars , *anyone with working eyes can tell how these are cheaper versions of expensive cars for indian consumers* , and I don't mean to be offensive by that , it's just funny the way that indian porsche looks like



What sort of logic is that..??They are Indian cars,designed for a particular price bracket and consumer demand.

For example,XUV 500,Safari and Scorpio looks like any other SUV


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## BeyondHeretic

gslv mk3 said:


> What sort of logic is that..??They are Indian cars,designed for a particular price bracket and consumer demand.
> 
> For example,XUV 500,Safari and Scorpio looks like any other SUV



ok , dude , it doesn't look like a porsche at all ! infact it just looks like the incarnation of Krishna maharaya


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## StarCraft_ZT

gslv mk3 said:


> Find a similar looking car from porshe,audi,hyundai and Range Rover then.........
> 
> Oh..and Do you know that *Range Rover is owned by an Indian???*





BeyondHeretic said:


> Did you know European football clubs are owned by arabs?



your conversation is very interesting...

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## BeyondHeretic

szft517 said:


> your conversation is very interesting...



Thank you , I was trying to say an indian engineer is not still behind the design of range rover , it is an indian who owns it with his money being earned from the ship wrecks in sri lanka

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## StarCraft_ZT

BeyondHeretic said:


> Thank you , I was trying to say an indian engineer is not still behind the design of range rover , it is an indian who owns it with his money being earned from the ship wrecks in sri lanka



yes, range rover is designed, manufactured, maintained all by British. Ownership will not change its blood.

I heard that Jaguar is bought by Indian too.

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## BeyondHeretic

szft517 said:


> yes, range rover is designed, manufactured, maintained all by British. Ownership will not change its blood.
> 
> I heard that Jaguar is bought by Indian too.



That case would implement more seriously for jaguar.

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## gslv mk3

BeyondHeretic said:


> Thank you , I was trying to say an indian engineer is not still behind the design of range rover , it is an indian who owns it with his *money being earned from the ship wrecks in sri lanka*



Care to explain??
I dont care if it is an Indian,Korean or British engineer,they work for tata Motors



szft517 said:


> yes, range rover is designed, manufactured, maintained all by British. Ownership will not change its blood.
> 
> I heard that Jaguar is bought by Indian too.



IPR is owned by the Indian company Tata Motors

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## BeyondHeretic

I bet when they are signing a contract with the indian or arab , there's a british there who punctuates to the guy that they can't change the design


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## gslv mk3

BeyondHeretic said:


> I bet when they are signing a contract with the indian or arab , *there's a british there who punctuates to the guy that they can't change the design*



Nice joke...........


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## BeyondHeretic

gslv mk3 said:


> Care to explain??
> I dont care if it is an Indian,Korean or British engineer,they work for tata Motors



They do , but they earn their triple digit salary in sterling pounds not in rupees , and they spend it all in great Britain , not in india , and when they go to india tata motors pays for their expences , like their 5 star hotels



gslv mk3 said:


> Nice joke...........



thank you.......


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## gslv mk3

BeyondHeretic said:


> Thank you , I was trying to say an indian engineer is not still behind the design of range rover , it is an indian who owns it with his* money being earned from the ship wrecks in sri lanka*



What does this mean???


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## BeyondHeretic

gslv mk3 said:


> What does this mean???



I mean in countries like india or iran , people often get rich off bull****


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## LaBong

BeyondHeretic said:


> I mean in countries like india or iran , people often get rich off bull****



Tatas are renowned entrepreneurs, read about Jamshedji Tata, he was given highest civil award of india. They are parsi by the way.

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## BeyondHeretic

LaBong said:


> Tatas are renowned entrepreneurs, read about Jamshedji Tata, he was given highest civil award of india. They are parsi by the way.



you are right merkava mk4


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## LaBong

Oops it was JRD Tata, not Jamshedji.


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## gslv mk3

BeyondHeretic said:


> I mean in countries like india or iran , people often get rich off bull****



Do you have any Idea of what you are saying?Tata was established back in 1868,Tata motors was established Back in 1945,as TELCO,and they had cars,decades before Jaguar Land Rover acquisition.
Tata is a very respectable Indian Industrial group-The products are Automotive, steel, IT, Electricity generation, Chemicals, Beverages, Telecom, Hospitality, Retail, Consumer goods, Engineering, Construction, Financial services and many oher

Check this out-List of entities associated with Tata Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whats about shipwrecks and Sri Lanka??


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## BeyondHeretic

gslv mk3 said:


> Tata was established back in 1868,??



So was FIAT


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## gslv mk3

BeyondHeretic said:


> So was FIAT



What has FIAT has to do?Care to explain what do you mean by 'Shipwrecks in sri lanka'??


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## BeyondHeretic

gslv mk3 said:


> What has FIAT has to do?Care to explain what do you mean by 'Shipwrecks in sri lanka'??



I mean in third world countries the rich has gotten rich by selling crap to people , be it TaTa or Fiat 

here's what I mean in Hebrew: nehi nehi , kertahe , rich sell ga puchi


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## gslv mk3

BeyondHeretic said:


> I mean in third world countries the rich has gotten rich by selling crap to people , be it TaTa or Fiat



Italy is not a third world country and Tata does not sell crap,I find Tata motors delivering VFM products.Tata products are sold allover the world,especially automotives and steel.It is also involved in supercomputing,power sector,IT and innovative technologies like Air car and the like



BeyondHeretic said:


> here's what I mean in Hebrew: nehi nehi , kertahe , rich sell ga puchi



Are you a Jew?


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## BeyondHeretic

gslv mk3 said:


> Italy is not a third world country and Tata does not sell crap,I find Tata motors delivering VFM products.
> 
> here's what I mean in Hebrew: nehi nehi , kertahe , rich sell ga puchi



Are you a Jew?[/QUOTE]

Yes , I am Persian jew , now bow

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## gslv mk3

BeyondHeretic said:


> Yes , I am Persian jew , *now bow*





If you thinks Indian cars and Tata products are bad,visit these threads.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/52785-made-india-vehicles-134.html#post4523206,http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/156495-made-india.html


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## BeyondHeretic

gslv mk3 said:


> Yes , I am Persian jew , *now bow[/B]*


*

:omghaha:[/QUOTE]

[/quote]

*


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## Anonymous_CryptoSpy

troll level 999 
:/


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## angeldude13

BeyondHeretic said:


> LOL @ the indian porsche



lol @ iranian making fun of indian automobiles.

thanks for buying our bajaj pulsar's and other automobile things.

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## BeyondHeretic

angeldude13 said:


> lol @ iranian making fun of indian automobiles.
> 
> thanks for buying our bajaj pulsar's and other automobile things.



I don't see indian cars on the streets of iran , so it was probably bought to be sold elsewhere


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## gslv mk3

BeyondHeretic said:


> I don't see indian cars on the streets of iran , so it was probably bought to be sold elsewhere

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## angeldude13

BeyondHeretic said:


> I don't see indian cars on the streets of iran , so it was probably bought to be sold elsewhere



hahaha..............
lol bajaj pulsar is a street bike in india and you people use it for military purpose 

btw best of luck for ur nuke proramme troll lol

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## BeyondHeretic

angeldude13 said:


> hahaha..............
> lol bajaj pulsar is a street bike in india and you people use it for military purpose



 we don't use it for military purpose , we use it beat up people


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## gslv mk3

Indian cars,sold in europe and australia

http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/52785-made-india-vehicles-134.html#post4523206

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## angeldude13

BeyondHeretic said:


> we don't use it for military purpose , we use it beat up people




best of luck in beating your own kinds. 

iranian should get nukes(in there wet dreams )

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## BeyondHeretic

angeldude13 said:


> best of luck in beating your own kinds.
> 
> iranian should get nukes(in there wet dreams )



haha .........


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## Banana

Forget the Germans, Tesla should be more worried about cheap Chinese clones | Digital Trends


> One of the big challenges for Tesla will be its effort to go into China. *I took some time a couple of years ago looking at the Chinese car market, and to sum it up, they are still in the rip off and sell copies phase.* There is actually a blog dedicated to showcasing Chinese clone cars; some are hard to tell from the originals, others not so much. They seem to particularly like luxury cars. Granted, once they see a picture of Sergey Brins pink Tesla Batmobile (not a color choice Id want on my car) they may think twice about cloning the Tesla.


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## Edison Chen

Banana said:


> Forget the Germans, Tesla should be more worried about cheap Chinese clones | Digital Trends[/url]



Yes, you are right. Before Tesla, we are already working on new energy cars. Once we get that dominating height, we get the market.


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## rott

Banana said:


> Do you agree now that Indian Cars are better than Chinese cars?
> 
> 
> 
> One Chinese @rott was calling Fiat engine as Chinese Engine.
> 
> And Chevy as a Chinese Car. BS.



Please show me my post which you claimed I've called "Fiat engine as a Chinese engine". 
Chevy SAIL is a Chinese Car, period! It is designed and Developed By SAIC in CHINA. 
Chevrolet and SAIC is in a JV to market Chinese cars in India. 
*Pulling things out of your a$$ again?*

It's you who is ignorant and very arrogant!!! It's not a wonder you still think Indian Cars are better than Chinese car. In fact if given a chance you'd claim Indian cars are best in the world. 

You're nothing but an *Arrogant blatant liar*!


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## rott

Deleted for double post


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