# Friendship Between Turkey And Russia Could Destroy NATO



## Asim Mirza

Turkey is gravitating towards Russia and slowly abandoning its ties with the U.S., as Russia continues to fuel tensions in NATO. This time it’s even more serious though, as Moscow could split NATO apart.




Image source: en.kremlin.ru
Turkey views Moscow as the key player to solve the crisis in Syria. Even Monday’s assassination of the Russian ambassador to Turkey, Andrey Karlov, in Ankara didn’t upset the Turkish-Russian rapprochement. On the contrary, the deadly incident, which some officials in both countries say may have had America’s hand in it, has only accelerated the warming of Turkish-Russian relations.

On Tuesday, the U.S. wasn’t even invited to a meeting held in Moscow between Russian, Turkish and Iranian officials who discussed solutions to the Syrian war. It’s not the first time the U.S. hasn’t been invited to help resolve the Syrian crisis.

While the U.S. is being left out in the cold, Russia and Turkey are brokering deals that could actually help resolve the conflict. Earlier this month, Turkish officials hosted a negotiations table in Ankara between Russian officials and Syrian rebels. The negotiations ultimately led to an evacuation agreement in the Syrian city of Aleppo. While the negotiated ceasefire deal is very fragile, the evacuation in Aleppo is still underway.

*Ankara is “bending” to Moscow*
It’s rather surprising that Russia has managed to become friends with Turkey, which is NATO’s second largest military. Although Moscow and Ankara have enjoyed friendly economic ties for decades, they haven’t been exactly close diplomatically.

But the recent Turkish-Russian rapprochement indicates that Russia is poised to make huge shifts in geopolitics. Russia and Turkey are working together to resolve the Syrian conflict bilaterally, despite the fact that they’re on opposite sides of the war in Syria.

With Ankara supporting the opposition, Moscow supports the government of Syrian President Bashar Assad. But Turkey seems to be willing to compromise. On Tuesday, Turkish officials even reportedly signed Russia’s offer to resolve the Syrian conflict in a deal called the Moscow Declaration.

Aaron Stein, an expert on Turkey and a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, described the Turkish-Russian rapprochement as “Turkey bending to Russia.” Stein added in his interview with The New York Times that Turkey’s policy of “Assad must go” is “no longer” the policy.

*U.S. pushes Turkey toward Russia*
Relations between Turkey and Russia have been rather rocky in the past 12 months. Ever since Turkey shot down a Russian military jet over Syrian airspace in November 2015, relations between Ankara and Moscow have been chilly, to say the least. But since Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan apologized to Russian President Vladimir Putin for the incident and made a vital visit to Moscow this past summer, the two nations are now set on a path for warmer relations.

Although Turkey has been hellbent for decades on joining the European Union, this year, Erdogan’s nation seems to be less keen on it. Since the failed coup in Turkey in July, the West and the U.S. have accused Turkey of poor human rights policies and said Turkish authorities put too much pressure on the local press.

The constant criticism from the West basically pushed Turkey toward Russia. Given Ankara’s large dependence on Moscow’s energy and tourism, seeking warmer ties with Putin’s nation seems to be the best way out.

While it’s in Turkey’s interests to strengthen economic and diplomatic ties with Russia, the Turkish-Russian rapprochement means resolving their differences in Syria. And there you have it: Turkey no longer believes its views on Syria coincide with the U.S. Moreover, Ankara doesn’t even think there’s a need to invite Washington to the negotiation table on Syria.

*Why does Ankara favor Russia over the U.S. now?*
While the Russia ambassador’s assassin probably intended to create tensions between the two nations, the incident actually further strengthened their ties. Statements released by some Russian and Turkish officials after the deadly incident indicate that they think the U.S. may have played a role in the assassination.

While the U.S. State Department strongly denies the accusations, the growing Turkish-Russian cooperation on Syria indicates the two nations’ growing hostility toward the U.S. While Turkey’s growing diplomatic friendship with Russia will make it even more difficult for the country to be accepted into the EU, there are several reasons why Erdogan probably decided to align his country’s interests with Moscow.


Turkey has faced immense pressure from the West after the attempted coup. Constant accusations from the U.S., which Ankara views as unjustified, move Turkey steadily toward Moscow and away from Washington.
Erdogan faces incredible domestic pressure to stand up to Washington amid the accusations. Anti-American sentiment in Turkey is getting bigger by the day, with many saying the Turkish-American friendship in recent years was more about talking than acting.
Turkey’s economy relies heavily on tourism, and it was hit hard after Putin’s ban on Russian tourists traveling to Turkish cities. It’s laughable to compare the number of tourists going to Turkey from the U.S. and Russia.
Ankara is no longer enthusiastic about U.S. policies in Syria. A growing number of Turkish analysts believe that outgoing U.S. President Barack Obama’s policies have failed in Syria. They also believe Russia has played a huge role in destroying ISIS and achieving peace in Syria.
*NATO could crumble amid the Turkish-Russian friendship*
Although Turkey has always been strongly in favor of Assad stepping down, the nation has softened its position in the past few months. Ankara no longer views it as priority to support the Syrian opposition, which is believed to have been targeted by Russian airstrikes.

Ankara is interested in resolving the Syrian crisis as soon as possible, as it fears that an autonomous Kurdish zone could be established along the Turkish-Syrian border. Tensions between Ankara and Washington are also growing because the U.S. supports a group called the Syrian Democratic Forces, which is made up mostly of Kurdish fighters.

Since the Kurds started making gains in northern Syria, Turkey has jumped in to intervene militarily. Ankara reportedly believes that without Moscow’s support, the Kurds could create one de facto Kurdish state along the border.

Although the growing Turkish-Russian friendship is helping resolve the Syrian crisis, it could split NATO apart. If Putin invades any NATO state, Turkey would have to comply with the alliance’s Article 5 and engage in a military conflict against Russia. Turkey’s unwillingness to do so would likely split NATO apart, as other members would start picking sides.

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## Desertfalcon

All of this subject to dramatic change in exactly 27 more days, of course.

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## Valar Dohaeris

Turkey is doing what is necessary for her security. Duplicity of US in every crisis in Middle East is a clear message that the only thing which uncle sam wants to achieve is destabilization in the region and collapse of strong regional countries one after the other till no one is left.
US has fueled the crisis in Syria but never intervened practically to act against Assad. US also created IS due to which the whole region has now turned into a volatile territory where anyone can drop bombs without ever being questioned.
As they say "Friendship of America is more harmful than its enmity"
Way to go Turkey. Erdogan is visionary statesman and he proves it again and over again.

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## Asim Mirza

Valar Dohaeris said:


> Turkey is doing what is necessary for her security. Duplicity of US in every crisis in Middle East is a clear message that the only thing which uncle sam wants to achieve is destabilization in the region and collapse of strong regional countries one after the other till no one is left.
> US has fueled the crisis in Syria but never intervened practically to act against Assad. US also created IS due to which the whole region has now turned into a volatile territory where every can drop bombs without ever being questioned.
> As they say "Friendship of America is more harmful than its enmity"
> Way to go Turkey. Erdogan is visionary statesman and he proves it again and over again.



+1 for you agree


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## TMA

Inshallah!

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## Beny Karachun

Are you serious? I doubt a combination of all CSTO countries and Turkey can even harm the US.

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## Valar Dohaeris

Beny Karachun said:


> Are you serious? I doubt a combination of all CSTO countries and Turkey can even harm the US.


Suggestion: Read articles before posting replies.

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## Beny Karachun

Valar Dohaeris said:


> Suggestion: Read articles before posting replies.


NATO* Not only the US.


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## T-123456

Lets just wait for Donald Trump first.

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## nana41

Beny Karachun said:


> Are you serious? I doubt a combination of all CSTO countries and Turkey can even harm the US.


Agree....only Israel can harm U S A by milking the funds and stealing the defence technology.

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## UQAAB

Beny Karachun said:


> Are you serious?


Well if this happened then it will be a nightmare for Israel too and US foreign policies on Israel and Iraq will also be affected too. But for now you just stay calm , and don't wet your pants :v


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## Attila the Hun

I like Russians, I just don't see Turkiye ever leaving NATO anytime soon. And I wouldn't call Russia our friend yet.

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## Kaniska

Rather i can see that Turkey can be in NATO as well as having a good relationship with Russian too. You do not have to leave one camp to be in another. And on top of that Turkey is not just another small country which can be forced to make a hard choice by neither NATO or Russia. Rather Turkey may be provided with preferences by Russia and NATO retain with their respective group.

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## mb444

Trump is Putins B*tch....

Erdogan is playing his card well. Turkey Russian detente can stabilise the Middle East. 

Turkey can represent the Sunni interest and Iran Shias with Russian facilitating communication and joint confidence building mechanism.

US is in retreat. This is the perfect opportunity to end neo colonial project in the Middle East.

Turkey need not jeopardise NATO while recalibrating its outlook.

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## cocomo

Ottoman123 said:


> I like Russians, I just don't see Turkiye ever leaving NATO anytime soon. And I wouldn't call Russia our friend yet.


Do turks feels USA is complicit by holding on to and maybe using Gulen for their advantage? Maybe they feel NATO isn't enough and they need to look for new alliances to safeguard their interests?



mb444 said:


> Trump is Putins B*tch....


Trump seem to want an end to Russia-China alliance by kissing Russian ***. American alt-Right are building a narrative where the Judeo-Christain American-Russian alliance takes on radical Islam. Well by "radical Islam" what they really mean is "Islam". 
http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...vilizations-demands-u-s-alliance-with-russia/

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## war&peace

I personally think that time is up for NATO. It is useless organisation that has lost of its credibility and utility. It has not done anything except spreading terrorism by creating and supporting proxies like Al-Qaeda and ISIS. It should be disbanded and declared the world's largest terrorist organisation.

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## Attila the Hun

nightRider said:


> Maybe they feel NATO isn't enough and they need to look for new alliances to safeguard their interests?



There're no new alliances better than NATO. 
Is Pakistan now terrorist free with their great friends Russia and China protecting you?
Yes, NATO right now is a bit shit excuse my French. But, it's better for us long term to remain in NATO than seek "friends" with countries that're pretty much anti-Turkey.

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## danger007

war&peace said:


> I personally think that time is up for N. It is useless organisation that has lost of its credibility and utility. It has not done anything except spreading terrorism by creating and supporting proxies like Al-Qaeda and ISIS. It should be disbanded and declared the world's largest terrorist organisation.





US alone can fight simultaneously with all the next big military. Let alone NATO, they don't engage in direct confrontation which could lead the end card for human race. NATO is most advanced military alliance.. only thing stopping them to engage is nuke. With the nukes they got, they can destroy entire human race.


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## war&peace

danger007 said:


> US alone can fight simultaneously with all the next big military. Let alone NATO, they don't engage in direct confrontation which could lead the end card for human race. NATO is most advanced military alliance.. only thing stopping them to engage is nuke. With the nukes they got,* they can destroy entire human race*.



I think they themselves are human too though I know mentally they are beasts but biologically they are homo sapiens. So destroying human race will destroy them too and I can tell you they are the most greedy about the worldly life.

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## ISI-1

Beny Karachun said:


> Are you serious? I doubt a combination of all CSTO countries and Turkey can even harm the US.



Why would a Zionist Yehudi be so concerned? Unless deep down you know that the Zionist West's and the illegal Zionist state's days are numbered! Speaking if which, I know for sure, that this is case, inshaALLAH!



Ottoman123 said:


> I like Russians, I just don't see Turkiye ever leaving NATO anytime soon. And I wouldn't call Russia our friend yet.



But the Zionist USA/NATO are a more of an enemy and threat to Turkey than Russia.

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## Attila the Hun

ISI-1 said:


> Why would a Zionist Yehudi be so concerned? Unless deep down you know that the Zionist West's and the illegal Zionist state's days are numbered! Speaking if which, I know for sure, that this is case, inshaALLAH!
> 
> 
> 
> But the Zionist USA/NATO are a more of an enemy and threat to Turkey than Russia.


Funny how you forget to mention that Russia helped the Brits and co to get those lands of Palestine for the Zionist a century ago. 
But now the Russians are the good guys?
Turkey needs stability. We need to improve our economy and fight terrorism. We face no threat whatsoever right now, nothing we cannot handle ourselves anyway. 
Now , we depend a lot on Russian tourists, and I have a soft spot for them because of it. That's about it though. I wouldn't say we are friends.
NATO is here to stay.

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## Orakzai

Ottoman123 said:


> Funny how you forget to mention that Russia helped the Brits and co to get those lands of Palestine for the Zionist a century ago.
> But now the Russians are the good guys?
> Turkey needs stability. We need to improve our economy and fight terrorism. We face no threat whatsoever right now, nothing we cannot handle ourselves anyway.
> Now , we depend a lot on Russian tourists, and I have a soft spot for them because of it. That's about it though. I wouldn't say we are friends.
> NATO is here to stay.



Mutual interests makes you friends in international political arena.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

NATO is useless and obsolete. Dissolve it


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## Tameem

Ottoman123 said:


> Is Pakistan now terrorist free with their great friends Russia and China protecting you?



Bro, Sorry to burst your bubble...On terror front Not only Russia and China In fact, Whole World needs Pakistan's help, We Don't.

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## friendly_troll96

Ottoman123 said:


> There're no new alliances better than NATO.
> Is Pakistan now terrorist free with their great friends Russia and China protecting you?


Why are you getting your panties in a knot when replying to pakistanis on a pakistani forum? At the current rate, turkey will soon surpass pakistan in terms of the number of terrorist attacks with all your great friends Aleppo and Azerbaijan protecting you. 

@nightRider was only putting forth his humble opinion with no hint of offense towards turkey in it and you went full retard for no apparent reason.

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## Thəorətic Muslim

NATO is preventing a massive arms race in Europe.

Anyone here thinks it's possible to prepare for "little green men" and have socialist politics providing welfare to everyone?

NATO isn't going to crumble because of the 2nd largest military becoming cozy with Russia. Neither is the 2nd largest military going to drop their connections with NATO and all the benefits it provides.


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## HAIDER

Turkey can t afford to lose NATO .

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## nadeemkhan110

Ottoman123 said:


> There're no new alliances better than NATO.
> Is Pakistan now terrorist free with their great friends Russia and China protecting you?
> Yes, NATO right now is a bit shit excuse my French. But, it's better for us long term to remain in NATO than seek "friends" with countries that're pretty much anti-Turkey.


We don't want any one to protect us and yes we are almost terrorist free
and turkey is in NATO for more then 60 years and you are still seeking new friends who are your enemies or anti turkey who don't even want to see you in EU

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## wiseone2

nightRider said:


> Do turks feels USA is complicit by holding on to and maybe using Gulen for their advantage? Maybe they feel NATO isn't enough and they need to look for new alliances to safeguard their interests?
> 
> 
> Trump seem to want an end to Russia-China alliance by kissing Russian ***. American alt-Right are building a narrative where the Judeo-Christain American-Russian alliance takes on radical Islam. Well by "radical Islam" what they really mean is "Islam".
> http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...vilizations-demands-u-s-alliance-with-russia/



If the price is right Putin would dump China for the West in a heart beat

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## Beny Karachun

nana41 said:


> Agree....only Israel can harm U S A by milking the funds and stealing the defence technology.


Isn't Pakistan the second biggest aid receiver from the US? Double standards, huh?



ISI-1 said:


> Why would a Zionist Yehudi be so concerned? Unless deep down you know that the Zionist West's and the illegal Zionist state's days are numbered! Speaking if which, I know for sure, that this is case, inshaALLAH!
> 
> 
> 
> But the Zionist USA/NATO are a more of an enemy and threat to Turkey than Russia.


Waiting for you 
@waz Double standards you you are going to take action against him?


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## Attila the Hun

Orakzai said:


> Mutual interests makes you friends in international political arena.


We shall see. I personally like NATO. They've done more good than harm to us.



friendly_troll96 said:


> Why are you getting your panties in a knot when replying to pakistanis on a pakistani forum? At the current rate, turkey will soon surpass pakistan in terms of the number of terrorist attacks with all your great friends Aleppo and Azerbaijan protecting you.
> 
> @nightRider was only putting forth his humble opinion with no hint of offense towards turkey in it and you went full retard for no apparent reason.


Turkey's and Pakistan's fault for the terrorism, lets not blame countries miles away from us. And I never said America is a great friend, I was just questioning how great would a friendship with Russia and China be. Pakistan can see India not care for China and Russia and shoot at your school kids.
But hey. yeah lets all pretend China and Russia are great friends lol



nadeemkhan110 said:


> We don't want any one to protect us and yes we are almost terrorist free
> and turkey is in NATO for more then 60 years and you are still seeking new friends who are your enemies or anti turkey who don't even want to see you in EU


NATO is good for us long term than being allied with Russia, that is all I am saying. And I don't want my country anywhere near this EU mess. No complaints from me there.



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> NATO is useless and obsolete. Dissolve it


NATO is great. Look how many Afghans, Iraqis, Syrians all desperate to live in NATO countries instead of Russia and China lol

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## TMA

Ottoman123 said:


> Funny how you forget to mention that Russia helped the Brits and co to get those lands of Palestine for the Zionist a century ago.
> But now the Russians are the good guys?
> Turkey needs stability. We need to improve our economy and fight terrorism. We face no threat whatsoever right now, nothing we cannot handle ourselves anyway.
> Now , we depend a lot on Russian tourists, and I have a soft spot for them because of it. That's about it though. I wouldn't say we are friends.
> NATO is here to stay.


Russia helped Zionists get the Holy Land? What? Have some links? This is news to me!
Thanks.


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## Attila the Hun

TMA said:


> Russia helped Zionists get the Holy Land? What? Have some links? This is news to me!
> Thanks.


Yes I have links

Google. com


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## TMA

Ottoman123 said:


> Yes I have links
> 
> Google. com


I was hoping for something more specific.
From my readings, the Orthodx Tsar and Orthodox Russia did not approve of a Jewish national home in the Holy Land as this land was made forbidden to them by the Lord God. However after the Bolshevik coup, the Soviets were entirely different in their outlook.

Basically my understanding is that for an Imposter Israel to come into existence, the two powers that needed to be eroded were the Ottoman Empire (became the secular republic of Turkey that was first Muslim majority nation to recognize Israel) and Orthodox Russia (became the Godless USSR that was the first country to recognize Israel de jure).

And WW I basically did this. You will find Zionist links with the Bolsheviks and the Young Turk movement.

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## cocomo

wiseone2 said:


> If the price is right Putin would dump China for the West in a heart beat


Oh man wouldn't you want that. That's what Indians pray for everyday.

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## Attila the Hun

TMA said:


> Basically my understanding is that for an Imposter Israel to come into existence, the two powers that needed to be eroded were the Ottoman Empire (became the secular republic of Turkey that was first Muslim majority nation to recognize Israel) and Orthodox Russia (became the Godless USSR that was the first country to recognize Israel de jure).



This is pretty spot on. Anyways, NATO is here to stay for many more years to come.
Turkiye needs to just grow economically and militarily there's no immediate threat to us, except terrorism. Which we are dealing with it in our own way . We don't need any outside help for this.


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## friendly_troll96

Ottoman123 said:


> Turkey's and Pakistan's fault for the terrorism, lets not blame countries miles away from us. And I never said America is a great friend, I was just questioning how great would a friendship with Russia and China be. Pakistan can see India not care for China and Russia and shoot at your school kids.
> But hey. yeah lets all pretend China and Russia are great friends lol


WTF are you babbling about farthead? 
All I said is watch your mouth when replying to pakistanis on a pakistani forum especially when they said nothing to tick you off in the first place.


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## TMA

Ottoman123 said:


> This is pretty spot on. Anyways, NATO is here to stay for many more years to come.
> Turkiye needs to just grow economically and militarily there's no immediate threat to us, except terrorism. Which we are dealing with it in our own way . We don't need any outside help for this.


NATO is Zionism's military! She basically fights Israel's messianic wars on her behalf. And Turkey is part of this tyrant!

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## Attila the Hun

friendly_troll96 said:


> WTF are you babbling about farthead?
> All I said is watch your mouth when replying to pakistanis on a pakistani forum especially when they said nothing to tick you off in the first place.


 you should maybe calm down. I am in no way ticked off. lol



TMA said:


> NATO is Zionism's military! She basically fights Israel's messianic wars on her behalf. And Turkey is part of this tyrant!


Turkiye is looking out for her own interests now. It's in our interest to remain in NATO.
Middle East is no concern for us anymore.

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## friendly_troll96

Ottoman123 said:


> you should maybe calm down. I am in no way ticked off. lol


I'm sorry I didn't know that's your normal self.
Please carry on!


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## TMA

Ottoman123 said:


> you should maybe calm down. I am in no way ticked off. lol
> 
> 
> Turkiye is looking out for her own interests now. It's in our interest to remain in NATO.
> Middle East is no concern for us anymore.


Turkey will suffer for this in the future...when Constantinople is conquered...

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## Attila the Hun

friendly_troll96 said:


> Please carry on!



I will my friend 



TMA said:


> Turkey will suffer for this in the future...when Constantinople is conquered...



And who will conquer Istanbul?


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## Beny Karachun

TMA said:


> Russia helped Zionists get the Holy Land? What? Have some links? This is news to me!
> Thanks.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990s_Post-Soviet_aliyah
We will stay here for ever.


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## TMA

Beny Karachun said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990s_Post-Soviet_aliyah
> We will stay here for ever.


The Lord God removed the Children of Israel from the Holy Land twice before; he can do it again.



Ottoman123 said:


> I will my friend
> 
> 
> 
> And who will conquer Istanbul?


Google it.


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## Beny Karachun

TMA said:


> The Lord God removed the Children of Israel from the Holy Land twice before; he can do it again.


The same can be said on the "Palestinians" that were removed from Israel, don't you think?


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## wiseone2

nightRider said:


> Oh man wouldn't you want that. That's what Indians pray for everyday.



It is not what Indians want or not want. It is called everyone looking out for themselves


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## TMA

Beny Karachun said:


> The same can be said on the "Palestinians" that were removed from Israel, don't you think?


The Children of Israel were removed from the Holy Land as part of a punishment for their "ancient" oppression: Palestinians were removed from the Holy Land as part of the Children of Israel's "modern" oppression.

*عَسَىٰ رَبُّكُمْ أَن يَرْحَمَكُمْ ۚ وَإِنْ عُدتُّمْ عُدْنَا ۘ وَجَعَلْنَا جَهَنَّمَ لِلْكَ"
"افِرِينَ حَصِيرًا​Surah Al Isra Verse 8
Your Sustainer may well show mercy unto you; but if you revert [to sinning], We shall revert [to chastising you]. And [remember this:] We have ordained that [in the hereafter] hell shall close upon all who deny the truth.
*​


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## Beny Karachun

TMA said:


> The Children of Israel were removed from the Holy Land as part of a punishment for their "ancient" oppression: Palestinians were removed from the Holy Land as part of the Children of Israel's "modern" oppression.
> 
> *عَسَىٰ رَبُّكُمْ أَن يَرْحَمَكُمْ ۚ وَإِنْ عُدتُّمْ عُدْنَا ۘ وَجَعَلْنَا جَهَنَّمَ لِلْكَ"*
> *"افِرِينَ حَصِيرًا*​
> *Surah Al Isra Verse 8*
> *Your Sustainer may well show mercy unto you; but if you revert [to sinning], We shall revert [to chastising you]. And [remember this:] We have ordained that [in the hereafter] hell shall close upon all who deny the truth.*​


Great, now, can you see? The Children of Israel are us, not the "Palestinians" as many claim, you have just said it. We are here to stay, want to do something about it? Come and get us, don't riot in Europe, come to here.


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## Attila the Hun

TMA said:


> The Lord God removed the Children of Israel from the Holy Land twice before; he can do it again.
> 
> 
> Google it.


Russia?? Never going to happen. Istanbul is a holy city for us...and even Europeans. we will not want to see it destroyed by evil Russians. 
I want to remind you when Khazars, Huns, Tatars all ruled over Rus.


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## mike2000 is back

Ottoman123 said:


> you should maybe calm down. I am in no way ticked off. lol
> 
> 
> Turkiye is looking out for her own interests now. It's in our interest to remain in NATO.
> Middle East is no concern for us anymore.


The funny thing here is that Pakistanis on here seem to be more desperate for Turkey to leave NATO and stop being ally/partner with the west than real Turks themselves . Baffles me. Lol. Any Turks who tells them otherwise, they get angry. Lol They seem to be so delusional they don't understand how helpful and important NATO has been to Turkey both military and technology wise.

Funny thing is Pakistan itself has been one of the U.S most important and long standing ally in Asia. Lol Yet they act as if Pakstan has been like say North Korea or Iran allegedly standing up to U.S /west for decades. Lol People are funny on here.

Only a fool(or wishful thinking) will think Turkey will leave NATO. If that was to be the case they would have done it decades ago. Turkey benefits alot from being part of NATO despite what some delusional people on here might think. For one they will never have been involved in F-35 program and they would definitely not be the only Muslim country in the world to get one.

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## TMA

Beny Karachun said:


> Great, now, can you see? The Children of Israel are us, not the "Palestinians" as many claim, you have just said it. We are here to stay, want to do something about it? Come and get us, don't riot in Europe, come to here.


Patience. 
The servants of God came centuries ago and punished the Children of Israel; it will be repeated, patience. Then the Children of Israel will see the Son of Mary ruling from Jerusalem (PBUH). Lake Tiberius is drying up...



Ottoman123 said:


> Russia?? Never going to happen. Istanbul is a holy city for us...and even Europeans. we will not want to see it destroyed by evil Russians.
> I want to remind you when Khazars, Huns, Tatars all ruled over Rus.


But also remember when the Rus defeated them and now all that territory is known as the RUSSIAN FEDERATION.


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## Tvchaska

this happened then it will be a bad dream for Israel as well and US outside strategies on Israel and Iraq will likewise be influenced as well.

I think they themselves are human as well however I know rationally they are brutes yet naturally they are homo sapiens. So pulverizing human race will demolish them as well and I can let you know they are the most covetous about the common life.


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## Beny Karachun

TMA said:


> Patience.
> The servants of God came centuries ago and punished the Children of Israel; it will be repeated, patience. Then the Children of Israel will see the Son of Mary ruling from Jerusalem (PBUH). Lake Tiberius is drying up...
> 
> 
> But also remember when the Rus defeated them and now all that territory is known as the RUSSIAN FEDERATION.


Wont matter for us:
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/534996/megascale-desalination/

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/130565

We are expert in water desalination and recycle. Again, if you want to wait for god, go for it, we are here to stay, there is a reason god sent us here.


----------



## TMA

Ottoman123 said:


> Russia?? Never going to happen. Istanbul is a holy city for us...and even Europeans. we will not want to see it destroyed by evil Russians.
> I want to remind you when Khazars, Huns, Tatars all ruled over Rus.


The Orthodox Christians in their eschatology have Constantinople returning to them. 
The Muslims in their eschatology have a great leader and a great army conquering Constantinople* AFTER* the Malhama.
Who knows the Orthodox and the Muslims may team up for this?

But methodology is very important!


----------



## Attila the Hun

mike2000 is back said:


> The funny thing here is that Pakistanis on here seem to be more desperate for Turkey to leave NATO and stop being ally/partner with the west than real Turks themselves . Baffles me. Lol. Any Turks who tells them otherwise, they get angry. Lol They seem to be so delusional they don't understand how helpful and important NATO has been to Turkey both military and technology wise.
> 
> Funny thing is Pakistan itself has been one of the U.S most important and long standing ally in Asia. Lol Yet they act as if Pakstan has been like say North Korea or Iran allegedly standing up to U.S /west for decades. Lol People are funny on here.
> 
> Only a fool(or wishful thinking) will think Turkey will leave NATO. If that was to be the case they would have done it decades ago. Turkey benefits alot from being part of NATO despite what some delusional people on here might think. For one they will never have been involved in F-35 program and they would definitely not be the only Muslim country in the world to get one.


I don't mind, I don't think NATO is all that great now, there're many problems. Just don't see how Russia is better.



TMA said:


> Patience.
> The servants of God came centuries ago and punished the Children of Israel; it will be repeated, patience. Then the Children of Israel will see the Son of Mary ruling from Jerusalem (PBUH). Lake Tiberius is drying up...
> 
> 
> But also remember when the Rus defeated them and now all that territory is known as the RUSSIAN FEDERATION.


Don't know I cannot see into the future. google says we will take it all for ourselves again. 
I trust google <3


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## TMA

Beny Karachun said:


> Wont matter for us:
> https://www.technologyreview.com/s/534996/megascale-desalination/
> 
> http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/130565
> 
> We are expert in water desalination and recycle. Again, if you want to wait for god, go for it, we are here to stay, there is a reason god sent us here.




The Lord God has allowed Gog and Magog to bring back the Children of Israel for PUNISHMENT, and the Children of Israel do not know it... truly the best of plotters and planners is the Lord Almighty.

Time is ticking...


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## Attila the Hun

TMA said:


> The Orthodox Christians in their eschatology have Constantinople returning to them.
> The Muslims in their eschatology have a great leader and a great army conquering Constantinople* AFTER* the Malhama.
> Who knows the Orthodox and the Muslims may team up for this?
> 
> But methodology is very important!


Good luck to them. This is our city. We built it.
By the way we the Anatolians decided to make it Muslim. Nothing orthodox can do about it.


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## Beny Karachun

TMA said:


> The Lord God has allowed Gog and Magog to bring back the Children of Israel for PUNISHMENT, and the Children of Israel do not know it... truly the best of plotters and planners is the Lord Almighty.
> 
> Time is ticking...


I wonder how the British let you in...


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## mike2000 is back

Ottoman123 said:


> I don't mind, I don't think NATO is all that great now, there're many problems. Just don't see how Russia is better.


Of course, there is no alliance system that is Without issues/problems/disagreements. Even between Britain and U.S we sometimes have disagreements over certain issues, same with NATO members Britain and Spain(we even have territorial disputes) where Span even supports Argentina's claim to the Falklands islands against Britain. That doesn't means we will have NATO. Only immature powers behave emotionally. 
However as far as overall both countries benefit from their Alliance they will carry on.
If NATO wasn't great or offered no advantages to Turkey, you people would have left long ago. Period. NATO membership is voluntary not mandatory and any country is free to leave whenever they want. So far no member state has left. Lol instead more are trying to join.

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## Attila the Hun

mike2000 is back said:


> Of course, there is no alliance system that is Without issues/problems/disagreements. Even between Britain and U.S we sometimes have disagreements over certain issues, same with NATO members Britain and Spain(we even have territorial disputes) where Span even supports Argentina's claim to the Falklands islands against Britain. That doesn't means we will have NATO. Only immature powers behave emotionally.
> However as far as overall both countries benefit from their Alliance they will carry on.
> If NATO wasn't great or offered no advantages to Turkey, you people would have left long ago. Period. NATO membership is voluntary not mandatory and any country is free to leave whenever they want. So far no member state has left. Lol instead more are trying to join.


Yes, I see all these people that hate NATO but happily emigrate to these bad NATO countries. It's crazy.
NATO is not perfect, and like you said has a lot of improvements need to be done, but, it's the best option for us.
Until a better alternative comes along, we're staying in it. And Russia is not it.

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## nana41

Beny Karachun said:


> Isn't Pakistan the second biggest aid receiver from the US? Double standards, huh?
> 
> 
> Waiting for you
> @waz Double standards you you are going to take action against him?


Israel gets 3.3 BILLION Dollar annually for the next 10 years (no condition attached), Pakistan will get 300 MILLION Dollar( with all the ifs and but's) this year only.
where and what is the double standard, ha ha ?

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## Beny Karachun

nana41 said:


> Israel gets 3.3 Billions (no condition attached) and Pakistan will get 300 Millions Dollar( with all the ifs and but's)
> where is the double standard, ha ha ?


I remember when they raised our budget and took money from yours, the forum went apeshit. You need that money, not us, but we are an actual ally from the US and we buy weapons from the US with that money, effectively reviving American defense industries.


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## nana41

Beny Karachun said:


> I remember when they raised our budget and took money from yours, the forum went apeshit. You need that money, not us, but we are an actual ally from the US and we buy weapons from the US with that money, effectively reviving American defense industries.


Have a nice time KID.


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## Beny Karachun

nana41 said:


> Have a nice time KID.


Kid? couldn't have thought of a better response?


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## TMA

Beny Karachun said:


> I wonder how the British let you in...


They did not let me in.
And no I am not an illegal alien.


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## Tamil_Manithan

I don't believe that Erdogan and Putin will ever get good friends.
He was forced to ask for forgiveness, and that to Putin.
It was a big embarrassment for Erdogan.



mike2000 is back said:


> The funny thing here is that Pakistanis on here seem to be more desperate for Turkey to leave NATO and stop being ally/partner with the west than real Turks themselves . Baffles me. Lol. Any Turks who tells them otherwise, they get angry. Lol They seem to be so delusional they don't understand how helpful and important NATO has been to Turkey both military and technology wise.
> 
> Funny thing is Pakistan itself has been one of the U.S most important and long standing ally in Asia. Lol Yet they act as if Pakstan has been like say North Korea or Iran allegedly standing up to U.S /west for decades. Lol People are funny on here.
> 
> Only a fool(or wishful thinking) will think Turkey will leave NATO. If that was to be the case they would have done it decades ago. Turkey benefits alot from being part of NATO despite what some delusional people on here might think. For one they will never have been involved in F-35 program and they would definitely not be the only Muslim country in the world to get one.



Coz of this dream:
Pakistan-Russia-China-Turkey --> *Superpower Pact*.
But it is time to realize that Turkey will never leave NATO and Russia will never create a new Warsaw-Pact.

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## friendly_troll96

this thread is such a ,mess lol


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## mike2000 is back

Tamil_Manithan said:


> Coz of this dream:
> Pakistan-Russia-China-Turkey --> *Superpower Pact*.
> But it is time to realize that Turkey will never leave NATO and Russia will never create a new Warsaw-Pact.


Lmao. 
Who came out with that?



Ottoman123 said:


> Yes, I see all these people that hate NATO but happily emigrate to these bad NATO countries. It's crazy.
> NATO is not perfect, and like you said has a lot of improvements need to be done, but, it's the best option for us.
> Until a better alternative comes along, we're staying in it. And Russia is not it.


LMAO LMAO. You are right, baffles me as well. You see them claiming how evil,bad NATO countries are and how we are going to collapse/decline into oblivion, yet almost all of their people want to emigrate here if given the chance, they are not going to holy Russia or China. I don't understand why. . Hyporisy at its best.

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## wiseone2

Tamil_Manithan said:


> I don't believe that Erdogan and Putin will ever get good friends.
> He was forced to ask for forgiveness, and that to Putin.
> It was a big embarrassment for Erdogan.
> 
> 
> 
> Coz of this dream:
> Pakistan-Russia-China-Turkey --> *Superpower Pact*.
> But it is time to realize that Turkey will never leave NATO and Russia will never create a new Warsaw-Pact.



Russia and China are allies of convenience. there is no long term bond

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## MIR RAZA HUSSAIN

usa is just riding on wealth of arab worl if these bados open their eyes and come out from the slavery of us and pull out their investments from us then you will see how badly this so called super power will be destroyed with out firing a bullet and with them israhel will be doomed as well


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## Tamil_Manithan

mike2000 is back said:


> Lmao.
> Who came out with that?



Just google _"pakistan super power rectangle" _

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## S.U.R.B.

They don't have to leave the NATO.But Turkey should get to become a member of SCO.
https://www.rt.com/news/367576-erdogan-turkey-sco-eu/
And that's where they are on the right track.
Soon Pakistan is going to be there too.


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## wiseone2

S.U.R.B. said:


> They don't have to leave the NATO.But Turkey should get to become a member of SCO.
> https://www.rt.com/news/367576-erdogan-turkey-sco-eu/
> And that's where they are on the right track.
> Soon Pakistan is going to be there too.



why did Turkey join NATO in the first place ?


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## Mo12

russia is no friend of Turkey, if it wasnt for nato, russia wouldve bombed turkey after turkey took down its jet.

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## Zulkarneyn

wiseone2 said:


> Russia and China are allies of convenience. there is no long term bond


Every single alliance is an alliance of convenience they don't actually possess familiar bonds.


wiseone2 said:


> why did Turkey join NATO in the first place ?


Because Turkey is positioned in both Europe and Asia, and NATO's safeguards have been essential for many decades.


Mo12 said:


> russia is no friend of Turkey, if it wasnt for nato, russia wouldve bombed turkey after turkey took down its jet.


Such a stupid comment. That would have started WWIII. Turkey is not a third world country with an incompetent army


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## Mo12

Zulkarneyn said:


> Every single alliance is an alliance of convenience they don't actually possess familiar bonds.
> 
> Because Turkey is positioned in both Europe and Asia, and NATO's safeguards have been essential for many decades.
> 
> Such a stupid comment. That would have started WWIII. Turkey is not a third world country with an incompetent army



Thats why turkey was stupid in shooting the jet down


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## wiseone2

Zulkarneyn said:


> Every single alliance is an alliance of convenience they don't actually possess familiar bonds.
> 
> Because Turkey is positioned in both Europe and Asia, and NATO's safeguards have been essential for many decades.
> 
> Such a stupid comment. That would have started WWIII. Turkey is not a third world country with an incompetent army



what common bonds might China and Russia possess ?


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## Zulkarneyn

Mo12 said:


> Thats why turkey was stupid in shooting the jet down


The jet was shut down because it flew inside Turkish airspace, this is protocol, if foreign fighter jets invade your airspace you warn, if they don't heed the warning you warn again, then shoot it down for obvious reasons. 


wiseone2 said:


> what common bonds might China and Russia possess ?


Interest, everything in international politics is about interest. Both sides gain from their relations, that's why they conduct these.


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## wiseone2

Zulkarneyn said:


> The jet was shut down because it flew inside Turkish airspace, this is protocol, if foreign fighter jets invade your airspace you warn, if they don't heed the warning you warn again, then shoot it down for obvious reasons.
> 
> Interest, everything in international politics is about interest. Both sides gain from their relations, that's why they conduct these.



Interests is not same as bonds
interests change with time

the common interest between Russia and China is shared anti-pathy towards America


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## Mo12

Zulkarneyn said:


> The jet was shut down because it flew inside Turkish airspace, this is protocol, if foreign fighter jets invade your airspace you warn, if they don't heed the warning you warn again, then shoot it down for obvious reasons.
> 
> Interest, everything in international politics is about interest. Both sides gain from their relations, that's why they conduct these.


russian jets have flown in many country airspace, accidental or not. None of these countries decided to shoot down the jet. Only the warmonger Erogdan did

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## Zulkarneyn

wiseone2 said:


> Interests is not same as bonds
> interests change with time
> 
> the common interest between Russia and China is shared anti-pathy towards America


You obviosuly misread my comments, reread them


Mo12 said:


> russian jets have flown in many country airspace, accidental or not. None of these countries decided to shoot down the jet. Only the warmonger Erogdan did


Nonsense comment. Sure they have flown in Scandinavian countries etc. Turkey is no Scandinavian country, we value our sovereignty


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## gambit

Another 'could' ?

Do believers of these uncounted 'could' read history ? I can remember when the media said an alliance between India and the Soviet Union 'could' destroy NATO.

Whenever a writer use the word 'could' as a major headliner, he was under deadline pressure to publish something, anything. The word 'could' automatically imply possibility but the fact that the writer used 'could' and not 'would' which imply probability is usually ignored. For most people who are used to the 'McNews' method of getting their news, the word 'could' is all they need to see, usually to confirm previous biases. Just like the phrase 'a new study found', the word 'could' is called a weasel word by professional journalists, the same ones who uses them whenever he/she was under deadline on a Friday.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word

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## ISI-1

wiseone2 said:


> If the price is right Putin would dump China for the West in a heart beat



Is this one of your 'wet dreams?'



Beny Karachun said:


> Isn't Pakistan the second biggest aid receiver from the US? Double standards, huh?
> 
> 
> Waiting for you
> @waz Double standards you you are going to take action against him?



Why are Zionist Yehud so concerned about Pakistan? Need to learn to mind your own business!

Zionist Yehud are hostile, Godless low lives, with limitless arrogance and immense envy and hostility toward Pakistan and toward the Muslims in general. It's high time the illegal state of Zionists is shown the road and told to shut up. These Zionist AshkeNazi Yehud are inhumane, lacking scruples, feelings and altruism which decent humans ooze. Barbaric in nature, killers/murderers of countless innocent Palstinians and Syrians amongst many others, these 'hyena like, khanzeer rear-ends' need to be taught a lesson, which inshaALLAH, I hasten to add is not far off.

In short, 'Isa AS and Imãm Mehdi AS both readying, to appear, not so far into the distant future inshaALLAH, preparing to end the misery perpetuated by Zionist AshkeNazi fake Yehud.


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## wiseone2

ISI-1 said:


> Is this one of your 'wet dreams?'



How many people are queuing to immigrate to China as opposed to the West ?


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## Attila the Hun

gambit said:


> I can remember when the media said an alliance between India and the Soviet Union 'could' destroy NATO.



Surely this did not happen!! LOL



wiseone2 said:


> How many people are queuing to immigrate to China as opposed to the West ?


The answer would be ZERO.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

NATO should be disbanded simple as that. Seems it's only US that want new Cold War.

Pipeline politics and war of influence


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## Attila the Hun

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> NATO should be disbanded simple as that. Seems it's only US that want new Cold War.
> 
> Pipeline politics and war of influence


Why should it be disbanded?
NATO helps bring peace to countries that're going through bad times. NATO helps feed the poor of non-NATO countries. NATO house them too.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

Attila the Hun said:


> Why should it be disbanded?
> NATO helps bring peace to countries that're going through bad times. NATO helps feed the poor of non-NATO countries. NATO house them too.



Like ukraine and Georgia?  ?

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## Attila the Hun

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Like ukraine and Georgia?  ?


True. I love Ukraine and Georgia, we should've done more to help them!!
But overall NATO has done more good than bad to the world. gives us a little credit..

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## MaMo

Russia needs to stop their planes from falling first, before even being capable of NATO's downfall. Russia and US are two sides of the same coin: venomous snakes. The more neutral Turkey tries to remain between the two, the better for them. Unless there's someone who can bring example of any country which has benefited by siding either of these snakes?


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## Max

@Zaki @waz what this thread is doing in Pakistan affairs section?


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## Attila the Hun

MaMo said:


> Russia needs to stop their planes from falling first, before even being capable of NATO's downfall. Russia and US are two sides of the same coin: venomous snakes. The more neutral Turkey tries to remain between the two, the better for them. Unless there's someone who can bring example of any country which has benefited by siding either of these snakes?


NATO is a bit shit now. But the way some people go on about Russia makes me laugh.
No one in their right mind would want to live in Russia. Their country is falling to pieces. Their economy is shit outside of Moscow and St Petersburg.
Turkey/Turks has NEVER been allied with Russians.
Turks supported SWEDES against Russians centuries ago. And lets be honest, the Swedes are real fighters compared to Russians.
I don't like NATO much, but they're better for us long term wise.

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## Mo12

Zulkarneyn said:


> You obviosuly misread my comments, reread them
> 
> Nonsense comment. Sure they have flown in Scandinavian countries etc. Turkey is no Scandinavian country, we value our sovereignty


they have flown to UK airspace, they have flown over usa navy, none of these nations did anything


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## LeGenD

Just another opinionated garbage for publicity; wishful thinking on the part of author.

NATO is not a child's play and Turkey is not ready for the consequences of quitting it.

Tayyip Erdogan is busy consolidating his power in the country, playing with the sentiments of his followers in the process. Gullible are falling for his charms.

We shall talk when Erdogan really stands up to the (evil) US.

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## MaMo

Attila the Hun said:


> NATO is a bit shit now. But the way some people go on about Russia makes me laugh.
> No one in their right mind would want to live in Russia. Their country is falling to pieces. Their economy is shit outside of Moscow and St Petersburg.
> Turkey/Turks has NEVER been allied with Russians.
> Turks supported SWEDES against Russians centuries ago. And lets be honest, the Swedes are real fighters compared to Russians.
> I don't like NATO much, but they're better for us long term wise.


Only if more nations were as rational as Turks are. Russia is not the big Soviet guy of a few decades ago anymore, even their comparison to US (despite of the mess created in and by US) in today's date is laughable. Only countries that would even think of favouring either of the nations over the other, are desperate and confused countries who mistake powerpuff girls (aka Russia) for batman.

God help us, because humans are failing to do so.

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## TMA

The only way NATO can be destroyed is by a catastrophic war; the only way the Russia-China block can be destroyed is by a catastrophic war.
They who wish to make Israel the ruling state in the world need to make Russia and China submit...therefore the only way is by waging war upon Russia and China...however the longer NATO waits, the stronger Russia and China become in their defences...hopefully with Trump there will be another delay in waging war upon Russia and China. 
I just don't want Britain and Turkey to be on the wrong side...and at the moment they are.

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## Attila the Hun

MaMo said:


> Only if more nations were as rational as Turks are. Russia is not the big Soviet guy of a few decades ago anymore, even their comparison to US (despite of the mess created in and by US) in today's date is laughable. Only countries that would even think of favouring either of the nations over the other, are desperate and confused countries who mistake powerpuff girls (aka Russia) for batman.
> 
> God help us, because humans are failing to do so.


Best option for us is to stay neutral . And the only way we can stay neutral is to get stronger. We have to look at improving our country instead of worrying about what Yanks, Russians do.
And if US and Russia ever go to war, and I want us to have no part in it... why should we? not our fight.
And there's zero chance of Russia and US going to war, no matter what the little kids on here say lol.



TMA said:


> The only way NATO can be destroyed is by a catastrophic war; the only way the Russia-China block can be destroyed is by a catastrophic war.
> They who wish to make Israel the ruling state in the world need to make Russia and China submit...therefore the only way is by waging war upon Russia and China...however the longer NATO waits, the stronger Russia and China become in their defences...hopefully with Trump there will be another delay in waging war upon Russia and China.
> I just don't want Britain and Turkey to be on the wrong side...and at the moment they are.


Turkey and Britain(I live there) are fine. We will not join any war between US/Russia.
Brits like Turks will do whats best for us in the end... I am not worried about that. 
Americans are on their own and they know it.

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## MaMo

Attila the Hun said:


> Best option for us is to stay neutral . And the only way we can stay neutral is to get stronger. We have to look at improving our country instead of worrying about what Yanks, Russians do.
> And if US and Russia ever go to war, and I want us to have no part in it... why should we? not our fight.
> And there's zero chance of Russia and US going to war, no matter what the little kids on here say lol.


Until there are free-zones like Iraq, Syria, Yemen, etc then there's all possibility for Russian-American clashes. Russia might lose the battle badly, but they won't risk their own ground and own civilians in a war which shouldn't even take place.

Unfortunately, majority of Muslim countries do not have the brain to realise this. Until we put our brains in West's hands, this will keep happening until half of our continent become refugees and asylum seekers.

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## Attila the Hun

MaMo said:


> Until there are free-zones like Iraq, Syria, Yemen, etc then there's all possibility for Russian-American clashes. Russia might lose the battle badly, but they won't risk their own ground and own civilians in a war which shouldn't even take place.
> 
> Unfortunately, majority of Muslim countries do not have the brain to realise this. Until we put our brains in West's hands, this will keep happening until half of our continent become refugees and asylum seekers.


Agreed. Muslims need to stop falling for the western tricks and stick together.
Syria and Iraq will just be a start. Countries like Turkey and Pakistan is fine though, we already have experience with terrorism and how to deal with it.....but these other countries will be doomed. Hope not anyways. Only time will tell. :/

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## Hindustani78

TMA said:


> The Lord God removed the Children of Israel from the Holy Land twice before; he can do it again.
> 
> 
> Google it.



Actually the tribes of Judah are living under occupation since the last 100 years.

1916-2016.


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## Penguin

Mo12 said:


> they have flown to UK airspace, they have flown over usa navy, none of these nations did anything


WHy should they, in international waters/airspace. Restraint is a sign of professionalism, not of weakness.


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## CrimsonFury

Yes within a time frame of 5-9 months Turkey will leave a geopolitic military alliance that it has been an active part of for 64 years. Wake up, it ain't happening.


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## TMA

Hindustani78 said:


> Actually the tribes of Judah are living under occupation since the last 100 years.
> 
> 1916-2016.


Do you mean to say that the Children of Israel are under Palestinian occupation? Can you please clarify?
Do you mean the Palestinians are under occupation since the "liberation" of Jerusalem since 1917?


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Attila the Hun said:


> True. I love Ukraine and Georgia, we should've done more to help them!!
> But overall NATO has done more good than bad to the world. gives us a little credit..



Did good to save Muslims persecuted by Serbs. But Afghan campaign has been horrible failure

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## Attila the Hun

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Did good to save Muslims persecuted by Serbs. But Afghan campaign has been horrible failure


NATO has a lot to learn. It shouldn't be disbanded though.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Attila the Hun said:


> NATO has a lot to learn. It shouldn't be disbanded though.



time will tell...but France, Turkiye, and other formerly anti-Soviet/Communist countries are now having full on direct diplomatic engagement with Russia.....Russia (former USSR) is the reason NATO came into existence

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## Saho

It will end soon. The growing far right popularity leaders in Europe who seem to more pro-Russian than USA and Turkey (the second largest NATO) says it all.


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## cocomo

Even if USA leaves NATO, the other members will try to keep it alive.


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## Hindustani78

TMA said:


> Do you mean to say that the Children of Israel are under Palestinian occupation? Can you please clarify?
> Do you mean the Palestinians are under occupation since the "liberation" of Jerusalem since 1917?



occupied Palestinians are the ancient people .


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## TMA

nightRider said:


> Even if USA leaves NATO, the other members will try to keep it alive.


You reckon? The US contributes the vast majority of finance.


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## cocomo

TMA said:


> You reckon? The US contributes the vast majority of finance.


Yeah but the urge to defend against Russia will not die in EU I reckon, with USA leaving. It will definitely be weak and less hawkish. I may be wrong.


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## TMA

nightRider said:


> Yeah but the urge to defend against Russia will not die in EU I reckon, with USA leaving. It will definitely be weak and less hawkish. I may be wrong.


Many common people in the EU support Russia. If Marine Le Pen wins in France, then Russia will have an ally in Paris. Even the EU could break apart with a potential Frexit.


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## cocomo

TMA said:


> Many common people in the EU support Russia.


I didn't know that. You may be right. I see a trend though in these alt right movements especially the american one, they support Russia against what they call "radical islam".


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## Hindustani78

TMA said:


> Many common people in the EU support Russia. If Marine Le Pen wins in France, then Russia will have an ally in Paris. Even the EU could break apart with a potential Frexit.




This is where its like this Empire strikes back .



TMA said:


> You reckon? The US contributes the vast majority of finance.



Not only finances but even security and put lifes of US soldiers lives in risk for safeguarding EU nations soveriginity and the same is done by Ukrainian and Turkish soldiers.



TMA said:


> Many common people in the EU support Russia. If Marine Le Pen wins in France, then Russia will have an ally in Paris. Even the EU could break apart with a potential Frexit.



EU nations just support racism against everybody in the name of color and are flooding in United States, Turkey, Arab world, African nations and Republic of India and then harming the social fabric of all these nations.


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## Friendly

Turks fought 12 times against Russia. Now there is a spring weather between the countries,
but Turkey would never leave NATO.

Even if NATO collapses and the Central- EU countries establish an own strong independent defence pact
and the USA form an alternative pact with the ex - eastern Varsav Pact states with the East- Wings States including Azerbaidschan, Georgia and Armenia ( that is already in construction);
Turks would try to join this block.
I believe that Serbia is the last Russian Castle in Europe. But this castle will fall if they join EU up to 2023.
That's the last step in the Balkans. That's my opinion.


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