# BREAKING! Kandahar has been captured!



## Agha Sher

Reports are coming in - mass retreat by army towards the airport

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## Meengla

Agha Sher said:


> Reports are coming in - mass retreat by army towards the airport



Not a huge surprise given what I read at The Guardian today about the fall of Ghazni: The police chief and even the Governor defected to the Taliban some hours ago.
This is beyond shocking!

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## Areesh

Meengla said:


> Not a huge surprise given what I read at The Guardian today about the fall of Ghazni: The police chief and even the Governor defected to the Taliban some hours ago.
> This is beyond shocking!



But as per Kabul regime supporters Pakistan is responsible for all this. They don't have any of their own fault

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## jamal18

If true then fantastic news. Kabul cannot survive with such a total collapse in moral of the ANA. 

Amercan empire definitively defeated by the Taliban.

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## Mrc

Even if not it will fall tonight. Students are in Central shaheedan Square strolling around. But they also must get the airport and soon

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## Battlion25

Mrc said:


> Even if not it will fall tonight. Students are in Central shaheedan Square strolling around. But they also must get the airport and soon



The airport is outside of the city tho.. It has technically fallen entirely Hence the airport is outside of the city

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## Agha Sher

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425819377379598337
This is from 1+ hour ago

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## ziaulislam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425820124238336008I think USA should stop bombing and focus on ensuring talis dont get involved with alqeeeeda as nothing is going to stop this fall now

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## Meengla

Areesh said:


> But as per Kabul regime supporters Pakistan is responsible for all this. They don't have any of their own fault



Pakistan's role has been crucial. No hiding that fact and without Pakistan's covert help and sheltering the Taliban these swift Taliban advances would not have been possible. Pakistan has recently made the Chaman-Spin Boldak crossing a no fly zone for the Afghan airforce, as an example. Yes, maybe some years down the road, Kabul would be as threatened as already now. But ultimately, it is the failure of the Afghan leadership and that should not be a surprise: Look at their history after the overthrow of King Zahir Shah in 1973/74. Americans had their prestige on line and everyone in America was rightly dreading a Vietnam II but that is where things are leading toward right now. Even if most of the American trillion dollars ended up back in America, a fraction of that should have made a more competent Afghan setup! It didn't! The only silver lining for Afghanistan is that in the last 20 years there are many more educated and well connected people to pull Afghanistan forward. I hope them the best.

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## ziaulislam

Meengla said:


> Pakistan's role has been crucial. No hiding that fact and without Pakistan's covert help and sheltering the Taliban these swift Taliban advances would not have been possible. Pakistan has recently made the Chaman-Spin Boldak crossing a no fly zone for the Afghan airforce, as an example. Yes, maybe some years down the road, Kabul would be as threatened as already now. But ultimately, it is the failure of the Afghan leadership and that should not be a surprise: Look at their history after the overthrow of King Zahir Shah in 1973/74. Americans had their prestige on line and everyone in America was rightly dreading a Vietnam II but that is where things are leading toward right now. Even if most of the American trillion dollars ended up back in America, a fraction of that should have made a more competent Afghan setup! It didn't! The only silver lining for Afghanistan is that in the last 20 years there are many more educated and well connected people to pull Afghanistan forward. I hope them the best.


1. Lack of engaging pakistan fears of afghanistan claiming half of pakistan TTP BLA
2. Opium
3. Corruption leading to 90% ghost soldiers

This is nothing to do with pakistan..

You can see talis doing nothing just walking into the cities..there is no fighting

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## Imran Khan

i heard this many times before too . it seems country as a whole is gifted to terrorists man

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## 313ghazi

Imran Khan said:


> i heard this many times before too . it seems country as a whole is gifted to terrorists man



Gifted to Afghans, not terrorists. The Afghan Taliban have not commited any acts of terrorism anywhere.

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## Imran Khan

313ghazi said:


> Gifted to Afghans, not terrorists. The Afghan Taliban have not commited any acts of terrorism anywhere.


really did you ever heard sir ?





__





List of massacres in Afghanistan - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Sifar zero

313ghazi said:


> Gifted to Afghans, not terrorists. The Afghan Taliban have not commited any acts of terrorism anywhere.


viva la Talibán.

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## 313ghazi

Imran Khan said:


> really did you ever heard sir ?
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> List of massacres in Afghanistan - Wikipedia
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Look at that list - what is different between Taliban and not Taliban. This is the way of the Afghans.

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## Yasser76

Imran Khan said:


> really did you ever heard sir ?
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> List of massacres in Afghanistan - Wikipedia
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Northern Alliance and ANA just as bad, if not worse. Talibs fought foreigners in their country.

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## ziaulislam

Imran Khan said:


> really did you ever heard sir ?
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> List of massacres in Afghanistan - Wikipedia
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In civil war evweyone is terrorist

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## Meengla

ziaulislam said:


> 1. Lack of engaging pakistan fears of afghanistan claiming half of pakistan TTP BLA
> 2. Opium
> 3. Corruption leading to 90% ghost soldiers
> 
> *This is nothing to do with pakistan..*
> 
> You can see talis doing nothing just walking into the cities..there is no fighting



Well we agree to disagree. Had Pakistan not provided the support--and no blaming Pakistan for that--the Taliban would not have made such _swift _gains. There is a reason Pakistan has been able to exert significant pressure on Taliban including putting into their thick heads to not attack the retreating Americans despite Americans dropping a MOAB on them! Taliban are not some strategic thinkers and Pakistan's support has been most crucial. 
PS. Looking at a US State Dept press conference yesterday I got a distinct feeling that Americans had made a deal with Pakistan and Taliban to 'let the best team' win. The spokesman dodged repeated questions when asked if the US-Taliban deal had a clause to prevent the Taliban from attacking the Afghan govt--so America had implicitly allowed the Taliban to launch the offensive so long as Americans were not targeted.

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## Imran Khan

ziaulislam said:


> In civil war evweyone is terrorist


i am forced to agree with you sir


Yasser76 said:


> Northern Alliance and ANA just as bad, if not worse. Talibs fought foreigners in their country.


mazar e sharif innocents were not foreigners sir

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## VCheng

Meengla said:


> Pakistan's role has been crucial. No hiding that fact and without Pakistan's covert help and sheltering the Taliban these swift Taliban advances would not have been possible.



And yet Gen Tariq wants us to believe otherwise. Who is he trying to convince?









Pakistan provided “strategic depth” to Afghanistan – Gen. Tariq Khan hits back!


Pakistan provided “strategic depth” to Afghanistan – Gen. Tariq Khan hits back! Gen. Tariq Khan argues in a hard-hitting piece that history bears witness that it is Pakistan that provides strategic depth to Afghanistan against foreign occupations, for migrations and international trade and not...



defence.pk

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## PradoTLC

Agha Sher said:


> Reports are coming in - mass retreat by army towards the airport




It is all Pakistan's fault for Taliban's blitzkrieg !


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## Khan vilatey

Wow they moved fast

k


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## VCheng

Meengla said:


> I got a distinct feeling that Americans had made a deal with Pakistan and Taliban to 'let the best team' win.



As long as Americans are assured that they will not be attacked from that region again, for which promises have been made and commitments given.


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## Durran3

I have no love for Pakistan (being a Pakistani) and I hate religion with a passion in general but Afghans are giving Pakistan way too much credit for the their complete and utter failure

I guess it’s fun to look cool in full on American arsenal, weapons and Humvees for a photo op till shit starts hitting the fan - I’ve never seen a more gutless and hopeless army.

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## Riz

Imran Khan said:


> i heard this many times before too . it seems country as a whole is gifted to terrorists man


Country was already in the hands of terrorists


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## FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425835061082042368


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## MisterSyed

Imran Khan said:


> really did you ever heard sir ?


Whats the difference between Uncle Sam's Bois and Talibans Than?


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## ziaulislam

Imran Khan said:


> really did you ever heard sir ?
> 
> 
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> __
> 
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> 
> 
> List of massacres in Afghanistan - Wikipedia
> 
> 
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> en.wikipedia.org


In civil war evweyone is terrorist


VCheng said:


> And yet Gen Tariq wants us to believe otherwise. Who is he trying to convince?
> 
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> Pakistan provided “strategic depth” to Afghanistan – Gen. Tariq Khan hits back!
> 
> 
> Pakistan provided “strategic depth” to Afghanistan – Gen. Tariq Khan hits back! Gen. Tariq Khan argues in a hard-hitting piece that history bears witness that it is Pakistan that provides strategic depth to Afghanistan against foreign occupations, for migrations and international trade and not...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


I would trust gen tariq words

I mean if talis had put a stiff fight then yeah then argument works but currently talis are just walking with tooth picks in their mouths doing nothing and afghans are just fleeing

There is no fighting just surrenders


VCheng said:


> As long as Americans are assured that they will not be attacked from that region again, for which promises have been made and commitments given.


Why would talis keep the promise if they are bombed any way continously??

We r inciting trouble

I would just wind up and leave for good and only strike back if it hurts USA intwrests

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## baqai

Anna are you okay ... are you okay Anna ...

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## Cash GK

Imran Khan said:


> i heard this many times before too . it seems country as a whole is gifted to terrorists man


Stop using drug please. You are losing your mind. Ask simple question to yourself Afganistán is big county. It is not kids game. Without local support they can not win this war. Their swift win shows they have great support from their own people. Simple USA and nato had best might. Why they did not win after 20 years . Because they did not had local support..

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## VCheng

ziaulislam said:


> I would trust gen tariq words
> 
> I mean if talis had put a stiff fight then yeah then argument works but currently talis are just walking with tooth picks in their mouths doing nothing and afghans are just fleeing
> 
> There is no fighting just surrenders



The question here is not what you would prefer to believe, the question here is who exactly is Gen Tariq trying to convince of his views on this matter?


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## Ahmad Bhutta

Oh no, where will India shoot it's next afghan jalaebi song :/

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## Yasser76

Imagine the smell inside the Indian Consulate in Kandahar right now, this will be one of the prime targets....






Consulate General of India Kandahar, Afghanistan


index



cgi.gov.in







https://twitter.com/indkandahar?lang=en

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## Reichmarshal

It is in Pakistans best interest to make the world believe that Pakistan has nothing to do with the taliban.
Every one in the know is working towards that objective.

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## Saudang

Just wondering if there were any real soldiers in ANA.. Seems like these soldiers were just for the monthly salary. Even the gangs in Mumbai or Karachi would have put up a better fight.

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## Yasser76

Few months ago Indians on this forum were boasting of the ANA and Indian influence. Now dreams of access to Central Asia finished. If Pakistan can get good rail and road connectivity then CPEC will be massively enshanced as Gwadar can supply and received from Uzbeks, Turkmens, and Kazaks in addition to China. Real chance to massively transform Pakistan into a hub and Gwadar to take on Dubai.


Saudang said:


> Just wondering if there were any real soldiers in ANA.. Seems like these soldiers were just for the monthly salary. Even the gangs in Mumbai or Karachi would have put up a better fight.



You tell us, you trained them....

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## Saudang

Yasser76 said:


> Few months ago Indians on this forum were boasting of the ANA and Indian influence. Now dreams of access to Central Asia finished. If Pakistan can get good rail and road connectivity then CPEC will be massively enshanced as Gwadar can supply and received from Uzbeks, Turkmens, and Kazaks in addition to China. Real chance to massively transform Pakistan into a hub and Gwadar to take on Dubai.
> 
> 
> You tell us, you trained them....


I guess its easy to invade Afghanistan, but very difficult govern the country. So lets see how these mediaeval tabils govern the country if they can overcome the ensuing civil war..


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

The collapse of the ANA and the lack of will on the part of Afghans and Afghan security forces to defend the current Afghan government is a lesson in how corrupt regimes lacking any ideological underpinning are unsustainable in the face of civil war.

Pakistan has been lucky in that the Pakistani Military, unlike the Afghan military, has been a disciplined and efficient fighting force for decades and has an enormous amount of respect amongst the majority of Pakistanis and was therefore able to take on and defeat the TTP despite the corruption and mismanagement of the PPP and PMLN governments and a vicious and destabilizing terrorist campaign by the TTP and associated groups.

The question for Pakistan, given the collapse in Afghanistan, is whether Pakistan's approach is something that is sustainable long term (In my view, it is not). 

Governance in Pakistan has to improve, elected governments and civilian institutions need to build public trust and respect, and the PTI appears to be the only party willing to take some of the hard decisions to even attempt to change the direction of Pakistan. For all of the PTI's flaws, continued PTI success at the ballot box and broad perceptions of an honest government that is putting Pakistan's interests ahead of personal, feudal, tribal and biradri interests, is essential for Pakistan's long term survival and success.

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## SD 10

Agha Sher said:


> Reports are coming in - mass retreat by army towards the airport


wow


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Meengla said:


> Pakistan's role has been crucial. No hiding that fact and without Pakistan's covert help and sheltering the Taliban these swift Taliban advances would not have been possible. Pakistan has recently made the Chaman-Spin Boldak crossing a no fly zone for the Afghan airforce, as an example. Yes, maybe some years down the road, Kabul would be as threatened as already now. But ultimately, it is the failure of the Afghan leadership and that should not be a surprise: Look at their history after the overthrow of King Zahir Shah in 1973/74. Americans had their prestige on line and everyone in America was rightly dreading a Vietnam II but that is where things are leading toward right now. Even if most of the American trillion dollars ended up back in America, a fraction of that should have made a more competent Afghan setup! It didn't! The only silver lining for Afghanistan is that in the last 20 years there are many more educated and well connected people to pull Afghanistan forward. I hope them the best.


You're attributing too much to Pakistan.

As I said in my previous post, what exactly are Afghan soldiers in the Afghan security forces and ordinary Afghan's who don't benefit from the corruption money doled out via NATO/US contracts, fighting for?

An old psychological concept - Maslow's hierarchy of needs - a pyramid of needs with the most basic (food, shelter) then safety and progressively higher level needs being focused on by people. Democracy, freedom, women's rights … these are all much higher level needs. A government that is corrupt and can barely fulfil the basic needs of many outside the cities is always going to struggle for support and loyalty in the face of a challenge from other groups that may be autocratic, but are perceived as being able to at least deliver basic needs.

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## Mandalorian_CA

Saudang said:


> Just wondering if there were any real soldiers in ANA.. Seems like these soldiers were just for the monthly salary. Even the gangs in Mumbai or Karachi would have put up a better fight.



Thats why india should send indian soldiers , the real soldiers with flying powers who will bring Taliban to their knees .

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## Imran Khan

Saudang said:


> Just wondering if there were any real soldiers in ANA.. Seems like these soldiers were just for the monthly salary. Even the gangs in Mumbai or Karachi would have put up a better fight.


you have not read reports ?
in one family few guys were in ANA few in Taliban
thousands were taking slary without even going to job ghost soldiers
thousands others were on leave long time 
the one whom were on duty complaining for even food with videos.

it was just a money sucking machine from USA and higher ranks and gov officials eat that money .
*‘We haven't eaten for days’: Afghan soldiers suffer amid widespread corruption *


   


Issued on: 18/02/2020 - 18:34Modified: 18/02/2020 - 19:44






An officer in the Afghan army based in the south of the country sent us this photo, explaining that what you see in the photo is the ration for five people. 

Text by: Alijani Ershad 







The Afghan army has been mired in a decades-long war against the Taliban, ever since the United States invaded the country in 2001. Corruption is also rife in the country's military. Photos sent to the FRANCE 24 Observers team shine a light on poor organisation and the difficulties that Afghan troops face, from insufficient food and pay to a lack of suitable clothing. On top of these practical problems, soldiers also face a strategic disadvantage: the Taliban has had increasing access over the last few years to better weapons. 







Photo published by the news site Ava Press in 2017, on the topic of the insufficient food rations for soldiers in Ghor province. 

*"If we want to eat a big enough meal, we have to buy it ourselves"*
Ahmad B. (not his real name) is an officer in Kandahar Province in the south of the country, a dangerous area where there is regular conflict with Taliban fighters. He requested anonymity as he's not allowed to talk to the media.




> If a soldier has to fight against the Taliban every day, he needs at least enough food to feel full. It doesn't even have to be nutritious. The photo that I sent you is a ration for five people. A tiny bit of mutton, some broth and five small pieces of bread.
> 
> The food in the Afghan army has never been particularly good, but it's got worse over the last few months. If we want to eat enough food, we have to buy it ourselves. We do that from time to time, but if we buy food every day we'll end up up spending all we earn and then how do we support our families?





> Photo sent by our Observer.





> *"Our boots have holes in them"*





> Another problem is our uniforms. Lots of soldiers don't have enough money to buy their own clothing. They wear boots with holes in them and shiver with cold whenever they go outside. Here the temperature often drops to below zero and the boots that we're given aren't enough to cope with such a cold climate. There's not enough fuel for the heaters so we have to collect firewood to heat up our base.
> 
> We have to buy winter clothing ourselves at the market if we don't want to freeze. The uniforms that we're meant to buy are resold on the black market. Can you believe that, that an Afghan soldier isn't provided with a proper winter uniform? That uniform exists, but he has to find it himself in the streets of Kabul or Kandahar.
> 
> We are not even in the worst situation. We're in a main military base, but soldiers posted in rural zones, in checkpoints or garrisons for example, live in far worse conditions. Sometimes they're completely cut off from the main base for weeks and only receive the strict minimum in terms of supplies.


 





Soldiers posted in hte Ghurmach region. Photo published on the news site Afghan Paper.

Afghan politicians and media have highlighted this situation in recent years. 

General Ziaeddin Sagheb, an army commander in Ghor Province in central Afghanistan spoke about this in October 2017, saying, "In the last three months, our food rations have been drastically reduced and eventually cut altogether. Soldiers have to bring their own food and those who have nothing have to go door-to-door and beg to have some bread to eat." At the time, the Afghan army was fighting the Taliban in two zones in the region.

Soldiers in Ghurmach in the northern province of Faryab had spoken to a local media about the same topic just a month before, saying, "We haven't eaten for days. We only have four sacks of flour for 400 soldiers. No one cares about us. We can't fight the Taliban on only bread and water."

*"Contractors bribe army commanders in order to get more contracts"*
Masoud D. [not his real name] is an Afghan journalist that specialises in military and security matters. He has interviewed many soldiers over his career, and also asked us to remain anonymous.




> The Afghan army usually outsources the supply of food to local contractors. These contractors get the contracts through contacts. Usually, they bribe or blackmail army commanders in order to get the contract.
> 
> In lots of cases, the quantity and quality of the food is terrible. Some soldiers don't get anything. When soldiers or their commanders try to speak up about the problem, nothing happens. Politicians are busy elsewhere, and because of the corruption between the contractors and the army commanders, nothing happens.


In May 2018, the police in Badghis province in the north-west of Afghanistan confirmed that a contractor that provided food to Afghan security forces was serving up dog meat. 

*Endemic corruption in the army*

Mohammad Naeim Ghayour, the former chief of military intelligence in the west of Afghanistan, attested to the widespread corruption in the Afghan army in an interview in 2011.

Corruption is huge in the army, and that's because there's a lot of money at stake," he explained. "I witnessed a meeting between an army garrison delegate and a contractor who was going to provide the food rations. They agreed to use bad quality ingredients so that they could turn a profit." 

According to official statistics provided by a US Congress report, the Afghan army lost up to 10% of its soldiers in 2018 alone because of casualties and desertion. 

According to the same report, there are thousands of 'ghost soldiers' in the ranks of the Afghan army: soldiers who exist only on paper, allowing commanders to inflate their budgets and fill their pockets. An Afghan army soldier earns only 200 dollars a month. 

*Article by* Ershad Alijani*.*

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## HAIDER

Imran Khan said:


> i heard this many times before too . it seems country as a whole is gifted to terrorists man


They always surrender to the powerful .. historically .... Soviets kicked out due to Charlie Wilson personal interest otherwise , Russian was ruling very conveniently without any problem ... a human nature, it bow down when fail to confront the powerful

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## Imran Khan

HAIDER said:


> They always surrender to the powerful .. historically .... Soviets kicked out due to Charlie Wilson personal interest otherwise , Russian was ruling very conveniently without any problem


some sane person said afghans can not be defeated in history . they just change the winning side during war

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## HAIDER

Imran Khan said:


> some sane person said afghans can not be defeated in history . they just change the winning side during war


lolzzzzzzz ... exactly ... I saw the interview of US military officer, he said you can buy anything and anyone in Afghanistan in few dollars... just pay the " negotiable price with a gun in hand "


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## Zapper

While ANA offered little to no resistance, the speed at which taliban took over the country is really commendable


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## Meengla

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> ou're attributing too much to Pakistan.
> 
> As I said in my previous post, what exactly are Afghan soldiers in the Afghan security forces and ordinary Afghan's who don't benefit from the corruption money doled out via NATO/US contracts, fighting for?



Actually, I am trying NOT to attribute even enough to Pakistan! Pakistan doesn't need to be closely seen to be supporting the Taliban. Pakistan had paid an extremely heavy price earlier for being the main backer of the Taliban regime--a regime which harbored the Modern-Day-Hitler Bin Laden who continued to attack America. Whether someone believes in that or not is not important as long as the world believed in that. Even Chomsky--a known critic of the US establishment conceded that it was Al-Qaida which did that. But, again, it doesn't matter: History uncovers the 'truth' while perceptions rule the present. 

But to re-iterate my point: Had it not been Pakistan's crucial role it would not be possible for the Taliban to make such _swift _gains. Yes, in the long run, they would have overcome the corrupt and puppet regime but not this soon. One day we will know about Pakistan's role in great detail. But it is a comforting thought that the West is not really highlighting Pakistan's role or scapegoating Pakistan these days; that can change though. 

As for the Maslows heirarchy--I doubt the Taliban could match whatever the NATO troops were providing the 300,000+ Afghan troops. Yes, Taliban offer 'peace' and Afghans would take that peace over a 20 year strife *but that Taliban being able to do so--under a more or less intact command system--whose leadership was based in Pakistan, btw-- has Pakistan's primacy in this war. Enough said! *

But overall I agree with you: The Afghan govt was propped up by foreign powers, it was corrupt, and had little ideological foundation and that would be its undoing and Pakistan has _hastened _that undoing.

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## VCheng

Meengla said:


> Pakistan has _hastened _that undoing.



The 64,000 rupee question now is where does Pakistan go from here?

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## Dalit

Boy, does this feel good.

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## FuturePAF

Zapper said:


> While ANA offered little to no resistance, the speed at which taliban took over the country is really commendable



Will be studied in military war colleges for decades to come; lead with “diplomacy”


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## N.Siddiqui

Imran Khan said:


> you have not read reports ?
> in one family few guys were in ANA few in Taliban
> thousands were taking slary without even going to job ghost soldiers
> thousands others were on leave long time
> the one whom were on duty complaining for even food with videos.
> 
> it was just a money sucking machine from USA and higher ranks and gov officials eat that money .
> *‘We haven't eaten for days’: Afghan soldiers suffer amid widespread corruption *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Issued on: 18/02/2020 - 18:34Modified: 18/02/2020 - 19:44
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An officer in the Afghan army based in the south of the country sent us this photo, explaining that what you see in the photo is the ration for five people.
> 
> Text by: Alijani Ershad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Afghan army has been mired in a decades-long war against the Taliban, ever since the United States invaded the country in 2001. Corruption is also rife in the country's military. Photos sent to the FRANCE 24 Observers team shine a light on poor organisation and the difficulties that Afghan troops face, from insufficient food and pay to a lack of suitable clothing. On top of these practical problems, soldiers also face a strategic disadvantage: the Taliban has had increasing access over the last few years to better weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo published by the news site Ava Press in 2017, on the topic of the insufficient food rations for soldiers in Ghor province.
> 
> *"If we want to eat a big enough meal, we have to buy it ourselves"*
> Ahmad B. (not his real name) is an officer in Kandahar Province in the south of the country, a dangerous area where there is regular conflict with Taliban fighters. He requested anonymity as he's not allowed to talk to the media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soldiers posted in hte Ghurmach region. Photo published on the news site Afghan Paper.
> 
> Afghan politicians and media have highlighted this situation in recent years.
> 
> General Ziaeddin Sagheb, an army commander in Ghor Province in central Afghanistan spoke about this in October 2017, saying, "In the last three months, our food rations have been drastically reduced and eventually cut altogether. Soldiers have to bring their own food and those who have nothing have to go door-to-door and beg to have some bread to eat." At the time, the Afghan army was fighting the Taliban in two zones in the region.
> 
> Soldiers in Ghurmach in the northern province of Faryab had spoken to a local media about the same topic just a month before, saying, "We haven't eaten for days. We only have four sacks of flour for 400 soldiers. No one cares about us. We can't fight the Taliban on only bread and water."
> 
> *"Contractors bribe army commanders in order to get more contracts"*
> Masoud D. [not his real name] is an Afghan journalist that specialises in military and security matters. He has interviewed many soldiers over his career, and also asked us to remain anonymous.
> 
> 
> 
> In May 2018, the police in Badghis province in the north-west of Afghanistan confirmed that a contractor that provided food to Afghan security forces was serving up dog meat.
> 
> *Endemic corruption in the army*
> 
> Mohammad Naeim Ghayour, the former chief of military intelligence in the west of Afghanistan, attested to the widespread corruption in the Afghan army in an interview in 2011.
> 
> Corruption is huge in the army, and that's because there's a lot of money at stake," he explained. "I witnessed a meeting between an army garrison delegate and a contractor who was going to provide the food rations. They agreed to use bad quality ingredients so that they could turn a profit."
> 
> According to official statistics provided by a US Congress report, the Afghan army lost up to 10% of its soldiers in 2018 alone because of casualties and desertion.
> 
> According to the same report, there are thousands of 'ghost soldiers' in the ranks of the Afghan army: soldiers who exist only on paper, allowing commanders to inflate their budgets and fill their pockets. An Afghan army soldier earns only 200 dollars a month.
> 
> *Article by* Ershad Alijani*.*




No wonder ANA is trained and supported by India...and IA and govt.


Indian BSF Tej Bahadur story of Paani mili Daal.

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## Imran Khan

VCheng said:


> The 64,000 rupee question now is where does Pakistan go from here?


back in 90s era i think with so much mess of afghans in pakistan


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## CIA Mole

now we know how to deal with certain countries

US dogs just roll over with paws up if their master leaves


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## GumNaam

FOOLS_NIGHTMARE said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425835061082042368


afghan government's "fight back plan" in a nuttshell:
1. catch a flight to europe or america and run away.
2. start tweeting against Pakistan for helping taliban.

fight back plan complete!

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## islamrules2020

since the B52 still flying, the deal must be off, Taliban must not relax on the capture of Kabul,Allah swt must have bigger plans for the guys who defeated the two most evil empires, the hadit of the black flags coming from khurasan is supporting this theory, the jews better wish Taliban are not that army.


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## Mrc

Herat has fallen


Taliban captures Herat and Ghazni, leaving Kabul increasingly isolated









Taliban captures key cities Herat and Ghazni, leaving Kabul increasingly isolated | CNN


Twelve provincial Afghanistan capitals are now under Taliban control after the militant group captured strategic cities on Thursday, leaving the Afghan capital of Kabul increasingly beleaguered and cut off from the rest of the country.




www.cnn.com

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## maverick1977

1 more month before Kabul goes away too.


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## Trango Towers

Yesterday the CIA predicted the fall of kabul between 30 and 90 day...

My prediction 7 to 14 days


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## Mirzah

Taliban has captured Herat too, unbelievable


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## maverick1977

Trango Towers said:


> Yesterday the CIA predicted the fall of kabul between 30 and 90 day...
> 
> My prediction 7 to 14 days


seems like it.


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## Trango Towers

Should taliban hang those that sided with the enemy? Or should they forgive and move on ?

Personally I belive the foot soldier is innocent and should be free. But the politicians and senior military commanders should have ti answer for everything and be handed over ti Pakistan for a couple of questions b4 helping them to their free grave

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## Imran Khan

Mirzah said:


> Taliban has captured Herat too, unbelievable


every neighboring country should be alert taliban went wild can capture 2 provinces of neighboring country too by mistake 


Trango Towers said:


> Should taliban hang those that sided with the enemy? Or should they forgive and move on ?


taliban if they want to rule should act civilized .

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## Trango Towers

Imran Khan said:


> every neighboring country should be alert taliban went wild can capture 2 provinces of neighboring country too by mistake
> 
> taliban if they want to rule should act civilized .


I agree with you....but define civilization. Abu gharaib, gitmo, water bording springs to mind as well as rendition flights and moabs. 

So u see civilisation is a word easily thrown about. Was America civilised when it nuked Japan, agent orange in Vietnam, testing of chemical weapons on UK population in the south coast by UK scientists. 

But if you mean taliban shouldn't be barbaric like the past or act like the American and nato forces and change to Muslim behaviour if that's whom they claim to represent and be kind forgiving and merciful opening schools for boys and girls, build hospitals and roads then I am 100% with you

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## Meliodas

Timer has started as us gears to pull out its citizens and Mir jaffars and mir sadiqs


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## Meengla

VCheng said:


> The 64,000 rupee question now is where does Pakistan go from here?



My American 2 Cent Answer! A globally recognized Taliban-led govt which has a fig-leaf of 'political inclusion'. That's what Pakistan wants *and *needs! And if you go to the front page of NY Times, there are three stories about Afghanistan and one of the most intriguing one is that Americans are willing to offer financial incentives to a future govt which would even include the Taliban in exchange for the Taliban not attacking the US Embassy in Kabul!! Oh, 'durability' is quite a climbdown from 'human rights' if you think about it!! 

For Biden-- images from the Fall of Saigon (1975) would likely doom the next Democratic govt election chance. 









U.S. Asks Taliban to Spare Its Embassy in Coming Fight for Kabul (Published 2021)


The demand seeks to stave off an evacuation of the embassy by dangling aid to future Afghan governments — even one that includes the Taliban.




www.nytimes.com





"

Mr. Khalilzad is hoping to convince Taliban leaders that the embassy must remain open, and secure, if the *group hopes to receive American financial aid and other assistance as part of a future Afghan governmen*t. *The Taliban leadership has said it wants to be seen as a legitimate steward of the country, and is seeking relations with other global powers, including Russia and China, in part to receive economic support.*

Two officials confirmed Mr. Khalilzad’s efforts, which have not been previously reported, on condition of anonymity to discuss the delicate negotiations. The State Department’s spokesman, Ned Price, declined to comment on Wednesday, but said funding would be conditioned on whether *future Afghan governments would “have any semblance of durability.” *


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## Clutch

Kabul is asking for mercy now...


*Kabul offers Taliban power-sharing to end violence: reports*
AFP | Dawn.comPublished August 12, 2021 - Updated about 6 hours ago
Facebook Count
Twitter Share
42





A Taliban fighter stands guard at the entrance of the police headquarters in Ghazni on Thursday as Taliban move closer to Afghan capital after taking Ghazni city. — AFP
Afghan government negotiators in Qatar have offered the Taliban a power-sharing deal in return for an end to fighting in the country, a government negotiating source told _AFP_ on Thursday.
“Yes, the government has submitted a proposal to Qatar as mediator. The proposal allows the Taliban to share power in return for a halt in violence in the country,” the source said.
A government source also told _Al Jazeera_ that the Afghan government offered the Taliban a share in power so long as the rising violence in the country comes to a halt.









Kabul offers Taliban power-sharing to end violence: reports


Al Jazeera, AFP quote Kabul govt sources, claim proposal submitted in Doha to allow Taliban share in power if they end violence.



www.dawn.com




*Taliban claim to have captured Kandahar as grip on Afghanistan grows*
Claim follows earlier fall of Herat with militants overrunning government positions
Peter Beaumont and Rowena Mason
Thu 12 Aug 2021 14.04 EDT

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The Taliban have claimed the capture of Kandahar, Afghanistan’s second-largest city and the place where the hardline Islamist group first emerged in the 1990s, as its fighters rapidly extend their control over vast swathes of the country.
The claim came as Afghanistan’s third city of Herat, in the country’s west, fell fully to Taliban on Thursday with insurgents overrunning government positions and flying their flag over the city. With the Taliban in full control, they promised in a message to residents to “bring security” as its fighters fired into the air in celebration and as local officials fled to an army base in the city’s outskirts.
The latest Taliban advances leave the capital, Kabul, isolated from the rest of the country and facing a rapidly escalating threat as provincial capitals have toppled one after another in the past seven days.
The US and other western countries have accelerated planning for the evacuation of their embassies in Kabul and the US embassy website has ordered its citizens to leave Afghanistan immediately.



The advances came amid reports of a power-sharing offer made by the beleaguered Afghan government’s negotiating team to the Taliban office in Doha, an approach the group has reportedly rejected.
The fall of Kandahar on top of Herat would be a catastrophic blow to the Afghan government which has watched its forces crumple as the Taliban have swept through Afghanistan’s cities in a lightning offensive.
Confirming that Kandahar was on the brink of falling, a senior local official in the city told the Guardian: “There is heavy street-to-street fighting in the heart of the city. The Taliban has almost captured Kandahar. As far as I know, only the governor’s compound is now in government hands. The city could fall in hours.”
Images on social media showed Taliban fighters near Martyrs Square in the centre of the Kandahar, barely 24 hours after the group overran the city’s central prison, releasing about 1,000 prisoners.
US and others laying groundwork for Afghan embassy evacuations
The fall of Kandahar – from where the Taliban launched their first insurgency in 1996 before rapidly taking over the country, and which served as the group’s capital until 2001 – would be hugely symbolic.

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## Taimoor Khan

VCheng said:


> And yet Gen Tariq wants us to believe otherwise. Who is he trying to convince?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan provided “strategic depth” to Afghanistan – Gen. Tariq Khan hits back!
> 
> 
> Pakistan provided “strategic depth” to Afghanistan – Gen. Tariq Khan hits back! Gen. Tariq Khan argues in a hard-hitting piece that history bears witness that it is Pakistan that provides strategic depth to Afghanistan against foreign occupations, for migrations and international trade and not...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk




Btw, your vietnamese puppets offered more resistance to vietcong then your puppets in Kabul and American trained and financed Afghan army are offering to Talibans.  


_On *March 29, 1973*, the last U.S. military unit left Vietnam

Communist forces overran Saigon on _*30 April 1975*


300k Afghan army, well equipped with airforce against 70k Taliban, that's what your president said......


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## Trango Towers

Clutch said:


> Kabul is asking for mercy now...
> 
> 
> *Kabul offers Taliban power-sharing to end violence: reports*
> AFP | Dawn.comPublished August 12, 2021 - Updated about 6 hours ago
> Facebook Count
> Twitter Share
> 42
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Taliban fighter stands guard at the entrance of the police headquarters in Ghazni on Thursday as Taliban move closer to Afghan capital after taking Ghazni city. — AFP
> Afghan government negotiators in Qatar have offered the Taliban a power-sharing deal in return for an end to fighting in the country, a government negotiating source told _AFP_ on Thursday.
> “Yes, the government has submitted a proposal to Qatar as mediator. The proposal allows the Taliban to share power in return for a halt in violence in the country,” the source said.
> A government source also told _Al Jazeera_ that the Afghan government offered the Taliban a share in power so long as the rising violence in the country comes to a halt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kabul offers Taliban power-sharing to end violence: reports
> 
> 
> Al Jazeera, AFP quote Kabul govt sources, claim proposal submitted in Doha to allow Taliban share in power if they end violence.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Taliban claim to have captured Kandahar as grip on Afghanistan grows*
> Claim follows earlier fall of Herat with militants overrunning government positions
> Peter Beaumont and Rowena Mason
> Thu 12 Aug 2021 14.04 EDT
> 
> Share on Facebook
> Share on Twitter
> Share via Email
> 
> The Taliban have claimed the capture of Kandahar, Afghanistan’s second-largest city and the place where the hardline Islamist group first emerged in the 1990s, as its fighters rapidly extend their control over vast swathes of the country.
> The claim came as Afghanistan’s third city of Herat, in the country’s west, fell fully to Taliban on Thursday with insurgents overrunning government positions and flying their flag over the city. With the Taliban in full control, they promised in a message to residents to “bring security” as its fighters fired into the air in celebration and as local officials fled to an army base in the city’s outskirts.
> The latest Taliban advances leave the capital, Kabul, isolated from the rest of the country and facing a rapidly escalating threat as provincial capitals have toppled one after another in the past seven days.
> The US and other western countries have accelerated planning for the evacuation of their embassies in Kabul and the US embassy website has ordered its citizens to leave Afghanistan immediately.
> 
> 
> 
> The advances came amid reports of a power-sharing offer made by the beleaguered Afghan government’s negotiating team to the Taliban office in Doha, an approach the group has reportedly rejected.
> The fall of Kandahar on top of Herat would be a catastrophic blow to the Afghan government which has watched its forces crumple as the Taliban have swept through Afghanistan’s cities in a lightning offensive.
> Confirming that Kandahar was on the brink of falling, a senior local official in the city told the Guardian: “There is heavy street-to-street fighting in the heart of the city. The Taliban has almost captured Kandahar. As far as I know, only the governor’s compound is now in government hands. The city could fall in hours.”
> Images on social media showed Taliban fighters near Martyrs Square in the centre of the Kandahar, barely 24 hours after the group overran the city’s central prison, releasing about 1,000 prisoners.
> US and others laying groundwork for Afghan embassy evacuations
> The fall of Kandahar – from where the Taliban launched their first insurgency in 1996 before rapidly taking over the country, and which served as the group’s capital until 2001 – would be hugely symbolic.


Looooooooool


Clutch said:


> Kabul is asking for mercy now...
> 
> 
> *Kabul offers Taliban power-sharing to end violence: reports*
> AFP | Dawn.comPublished August 12, 2021 - Updated about 6 hours ago
> Facebook Count
> Twitter Share
> 42
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Taliban fighter stands guard at the entrance of the police headquarters in Ghazni on Thursday as Taliban move closer to Afghan capital after taking Ghazni city. — AFP
> Afghan government negotiators in Qatar have offered the Taliban a power-sharing deal in return for an end to fighting in the country, a government negotiating source told _AFP_ on Thursday.
> “Yes, the government has submitted a proposal to Qatar as mediator. The proposal allows the Taliban to share power in return for a halt in violence in the country,” the source said.
> A government source also told _Al Jazeera_ that the Afghan government offered the Taliban a share in power so long as the rising violence in the country comes to a halt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kabul offers Taliban power-sharing to end violence: reports
> 
> 
> Al Jazeera, AFP quote Kabul govt sources, claim proposal submitted in Doha to allow Taliban share in power if they end violence.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Taliban claim to have captured Kandahar as grip on Afghanistan grows*
> Claim follows earlier fall of Herat with militants overrunning government positions
> Peter Beaumont and Rowena Mason
> Thu 12 Aug 2021 14.04 EDT
> 
> Share on Facebook
> Share on Twitter
> Share via Email
> 
> The Taliban have claimed the capture of Kandahar, Afghanistan’s second-largest city and the place where the hardline Islamist group first emerged in the 1990s, as its fighters rapidly extend their control over vast swathes of the country.
> The claim came as Afghanistan’s third city of Herat, in the country’s west, fell fully to Taliban on Thursday with insurgents overrunning government positions and flying their flag over the city. With the Taliban in full control, they promised in a message to residents to “bring security” as its fighters fired into the air in celebration and as local officials fled to an army base in the city’s outskirts.
> The latest Taliban advances leave the capital, Kabul, isolated from the rest of the country and facing a rapidly escalating threat as provincial capitals have toppled one after another in the past seven days.
> The US and other western countries have accelerated planning for the evacuation of their embassies in Kabul and the US embassy website has ordered its citizens to leave Afghanistan immediately.
> 
> 
> 
> The advances came amid reports of a power-sharing offer made by the beleaguered Afghan government’s negotiating team to the Taliban office in Doha, an approach the group has reportedly rejected.
> The fall of Kandahar on top of Herat would be a catastrophic blow to the Afghan government which has watched its forces crumple as the Taliban have swept through Afghanistan’s cities in a lightning offensive.
> Confirming that Kandahar was on the brink of falling, a senior local official in the city told the Guardian: “There is heavy street-to-street fighting in the heart of the city. The Taliban has almost captured Kandahar. As far as I know, only the governor’s compound is now in government hands. The city could fall in hours.”
> Images on social media showed Taliban fighters near Martyrs Square in the centre of the Kandahar, barely 24 hours after the group overran the city’s central prison, releasing about 1,000 prisoners.
> US and others laying groundwork for Afghan embassy evacuations
> The fall of Kandahar – from where the Taliban launched their first insurgency in 1996 before rapidly taking over the country, and which served as the group’s capital until 2001 – would be hugely symbolic.


American embassy should be destroyed to remind America who won. I want the taliban flag on the US embassy as a reminder that they lost after the lost war in history yo men with no airforce, no factories for weapons , no navy ... no nothing


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## maverick1977

massive evacuation from kabul under works.. just announced by US


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## Taimoor Khan

maverick1977 said:


> View attachment 769236
> 
> 
> massive evacuation from kabul under works.. just announced by US



Saigon written all over it?

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## maverick1977

Taimoor Khan said:


> Saigon written all over it?


I am afraid you are right... a fall from disgrace, followed by NDS and other leaders being hanged ...


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## Trango Towers

Taimoor Khan said:


> Saigon written all over it?


Christian invaders on the run


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## KaiserX

Here is my post from just a few days ago ie monday predicting the same, and laying out the Talibans blietzkrieg strategy during the recent offensives:

*What is radically different today with the talibans war strategy in the 90s is that the Taliban are attacking from all corners and appear to be taking the northern areas/city centers first where they have historically been weakest while following up with the same in the south right afterwards in almost lightning blitzkrieg like succession. Its almost like a pattern the last few weeks...

1) Taliban take kunduz, northern areas where the NA remained supreme. Take border posts with tajikistan
2) Taliban take West afghanistan/border posts with iran
3) Taliban take southern country side/border post with Pakistan
4) NOW- Taliban take nothern cities
5) FUTURE- Taliban takes herat/western cities
6) FUTURE- Talibans take Kandahar/southern cities
7) FUTURE- Taliban take Kabul Center- Final battle and besiege of Kabul from all sides

Its more than likely once they take Mazar I shariff, then Herat and the southern cities will fall in rapid succession over the next few days into week. After that they will have kabul surrounded on all sides and have 1 single target left with all fighter converging on kabul. Thats where you will see govt level ministers rapidly move to the taliban side

The afghan govt has simply been confined to the kabul area in the center of the nation with very limited time remaining*

Next and last area remaining after this is Kabul. Taliban have Kabul surrounded from all sides and cut off. Why would they want to negotiate anything at this point?

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## shadowdragon

maverick1977 said:


> View attachment 769236
> 
> 
> massive evacuation from kabul under works.. just announced by US


Saigon 2.0 ...


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## Clutch

maverick1977 said:


> View attachment 769236
> 
> 
> massive evacuation from kabul under works.. just announced by US




This means that the American calculation of Kabul falling in 6 months was all wrong... Kabul will collapse is the next 6 days at this rate!!!!

Where is the 300,000 string ANA?... Are NATO Western wet dreams of a prolonged Afghan civil war all blown to pieces???

NATO American strategy was to fund a civil war in Afghanistan and fight via proxy.... Seems like that isn't going to happen.... At least for now...


----------



## shadowdragon

KaiserX said:


> Here is my post from just a few days ago ie monday predicting the same, and laying out the Talibans blietzkrieg strategy during the recent offensives:
> 
> *What is radically different today with the talibans war strategy in the 90s is that the Taliban are attacking from all corners and appear to be taking the northern areas/city centers first where they have historically been weakest while following up with the same in the south right afterwards in almost lightning blitzkrieg like succession. Its almost like a pattern the last few weeks...
> 
> 1) Taliban take kunduz, northern areas where the NA remained supreme. Take border posts with tajikistan
> 2) Taliban take West afghanistan/border posts with iran
> 3) Taliban take southern country side/border post with Pakistan
> 4) NOW- Taliban take nothern cities
> 5) FUTURE- Taliban takes herat/western cities
> 6) FUTURE- Talibans take Kandahar/southern cities
> 7) FUTURE- Taliban take Kabul Center- Final battle and besiege of Kabul from all sides
> 
> Its more than likely once they take Mazar I shariff, then Herat and the southern cities will fall in rapid succession over the next few days into week. After that they will have kabul surrounded on all sides and have 1 single target left with all fighter converging on kabul. Thats where you will see govt level ministers rapidly move to the taliban side
> 
> The afghan govt has simply been confined to the kabul area in the center of the nation with very limited time remaining*
> 
> Next and last area remaining after this is Kabul. Taliban have Kabul surrounded from all sides and cut off. Why would they want to negotiate anything at this point?


Kandahar and Herat have fallen... Now what remains is mazar I sharif and afterwards kabul as Taliban have penetrated in logar...

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## maverick1977

Clutch said:


> This means that the American calculation of Kabul falling in 6 months was all wrong... Kabul will collapse is the next 6 days at this rate!!!!
> 
> Where is the 300,000 string ANA?... Are NATO Western wet dreams of a prolonged Afghan civil war all blown to pieces???
> 
> NATO American strategy was to fund a civil war in Afghanistan and fight via proxy.... Seems like that isn't going to happen.... At least for now...




There is a chance that Massive escalations will take place between US and Taliban and might go south with more troops going in.


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## Clutch

maverick1977 said:


> There is a chance that Massive escalations will take place between US and Taliban and might go south with more troops going in.



The Americans will not attack the Taliban. As long as the Taliban do not attack the Americans brought in for evacuation support. That's the deal.

For the Americans to attack the Taliban, the will need to reverse the entire withdrawal and re-engage with full logistical support. They will not be doing that. For them to engage with the Taliban now will serve no tactical success and no mission goals.

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## maverick1977

Clutch said:


> The Americans will not attack the Taliban. As long as the Taliban do not attack the Americans brought in for evacuation support. That's the deal.
> 
> For the Americans to attack the Taliban, the will need to reverse the entire withdrawal and re-engage with full logistical support. They will not be doing that. For them to engage with the Taliban now will serve no tactical success and no mission goals.




Agreed, it will be evacs through the airport. 2 regular infantry and 1 airborne units going in.. purely for evacuations.

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## kingQamaR

Taliban campaign, has successfully trapped northern alliance warlords in there last and only sanctuary left in Afghanistan is Kabul.

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## islamrules2020

who is the Emir of the IEA ? 
that's a true muslim godly guided leader

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## Durran3

In my heart I am deeply saddened that this is happening. I feel for the innocent civilians women, men and children who will now be forced to live under these cockroaches with complete indignity.

Women now won’t be able to go to clinics, no more school parks, zero prospects for higher education, Garbage trash ideology completely devoid of reality and what works in the 21st century.

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## Xone

I was learning about the fall of Herat. Now, this Kandhar is unbelievable. third-parties are confirming now.


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## SQ8

No verified confirmation.


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## Mrc

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425926075989827587
Kandahar has fallen

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## m52k85

Herat is confirmed, Kandahar not yet though the Talibs have verifiably reached the city centre, its only a matter of time it seems. And the time has come, wow.


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## FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

SQ8 said:


> No verified confirmation.


It's official from many sources.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425927600262815748

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425927484734902275

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425926622696333316


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## Itachi

Imran Khan said:


> i heard this many times before too . it seems country as a whole is gifted to terrorists man



You and your fellow band of liberals and secularists can keep burning. 








And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish."

Chapter 17, Sūrat l-Isrā, The Night Journey


Imran Khan said:


> really did you ever heard sir ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of massacres in Afghanistan - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



Most of the pre-2000 have false numbers or were committed against soldiers who're valid targets.

After 2000's, most were committed by the ANA or US/NATO/ISAF. So who're you kidding here?? Have you even read what you posted lol??

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## Xone

*Taliban take Kandahar, Herat in major Afghanistan offensive*
By TAMEEM AKHGAR, RAHIM FAIEZ and JON GAMBRELL3 minutes ago





1 of 8
Taliban fighters patrol inside the city of Ghazni, southwest of Kabul, Afghanistan, Thursday, Aug. 12, 2021. The Taliban captured the provincial capital near Kabul on Thursday, the 10th the insurgents have taken over a weeklong blitz across Afghanistan as the U.S. and NATO prepare to withdraw entirely from the country after decades of war. (AP Photo/Gulabuddin Amiri)

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — The Taliban captured two major Afghan cities, the country’s second- and third-largest after Kabul, and a strategic provincial capital on Thursday, further squeezing the embattled government just weeks before the end of the American military mission there.
The seizure of Kandahar and Herat marks the biggest prizes yet for the Taliban, who have taken 12 of Afghanistan’s 34 provincial capitals as part of a weeklong blitz.
The capture of the city of Ghazni, meanwhile, cuts off a crucial highway linking the Afghan capital with the country’s southern provinces, which similarly find themselves under assault as part of an insurgent push some 20 years after U.S. and NATO troops invaded and ousted the Taliban government.
While Kabul itself isn’t directly under threat yet, the losses and the battles elsewhere further tighten the grip of a resurgent Taliban, who are estimated to now hold over two-thirds of the country and are continuing to pressure government forces in several other provincial capitals.
With security rapidly deteriorating, the United States planned to send in 3,000 troops to help evacuate some personnel from the U.S. Embassy in Kabul. Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said one Army and two Marine infantry battalions will enter Afghanistan within the next two days to assist at the Kabul airport with the partial embassy evacuation. Separately, Britain said about 600 troops would be deployed on a short-term basis to support British nationals leaving the country.
Thousands of Afghans have fled their homes amid fears the Taliban will again impose a brutal, repressive government, all but eliminating women’s rights and conducting public amputations, stonings and executions. Peace talks in Qatar remain stalled, though diplomats met throughout the day.
The latest U.S. military intelligence assessment suggests Kabul could come under insurgent pressure within 30 days and that, if current trends hold, the Taliban could gain full control of the country within a few months. The Afghan government may eventually be forced to pull back to defend the capital and just a few other cities in the coming days if the Taliban keep up their momentum.
The onslaught represents a stunning collapse of Afghan forces and renews questions about where the over $830 billion spent by the U.S. Defense Department on fighting, training those troops, and reconstruction efforts went — especially as Taliban fighters ride on American-made Humvees and pickup trucks with M-16s slung across their shoulders.
Afghan security forces and the government have not responded to repeated questions from journalists over the days of fighting, instead issuing video communiques that downplay the Taliban advance.
In Herat, Taliban fighters rushed past the Great Mosque in the historic city — which dates to 500 BC and was once a spoil of Alexander the Great — and seized government buildings. Witnesses described hearing sporadic gunfire at one government building while the rest of the city fell silent under the insurgents’ control.
Herat had been under militant attack for two weeks, with one wave blunted by the arrival of warlord Ismail Khan and his forces. But on Thursday afternoon, Taliban fighters broke through the city’s defensive lines and later said they were in control.
Afghan lawmaker Semin Barekzai also acknowledged the city’s fall, saying that some officials there had escaped. Witnesses described seeing Taliban fighters once-detained at Herat’s prison now freely moving on the streets.
It wasn’t immediately clear what happened to Khan, who earlier had been described as under attack with his forces at a government building.
In Kandahar, the Taliban seized the governor’s office and other buildings, witnesses said. The governor and other officials fled the onslaught, catching a flight to Kabul, the witnesses added. They declined to be named publicly as the defeat has yet to be acknowledged by the government.
The Taliban had earlier attacked a prison in Kandahar and freed inmates inside, officials said.
Earlier Thursday, the militants raised their white flags imprinted with an Islamic proclamation of faith over the city of Ghazni, just 130 kilometers (80 miles) southwest of Kabul.
Fighters crowded onto one seized Humvee and drove down a main road, with the golden dome of a mosque near the governor’s office visible behind them, yelling: “God is great!” The insurgents, cradling their rifles, later gathered at one roundabout for an impromptu speech by a commander. One militant carried a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.
Ghazni provincial council member Amanullah Kamrani alleged that the provincial governor and police chief made a deal with the Taliban to flee after surrendering. Taliban video and photos purported to show the governor’s convoy freely passing by insurgents as part of the deal.
Afghan Interior Ministry spokesman Mirwais Stanekzai later said the governor and his deputies had been arrested over that alleged deal. The officials could not be immediately reached for comment.
Stanekzai also acknowledged in a video message that parts of Ghanzi had fallen, though he insisted government security forces “do exist” in the city.
The loss of Ghazni — which sits along the Kabul-Kandahar Highway — could complicate resupply and movement for government forces, as well as squeeze the capital from the south.
Already, the Taliban’s weeklong blitz has seen the militants seize nine other provincial capitals around the country. Many are in the country’s northeast corner, pressuring Kabul from that direction as well.
In southern Afghanistan, the Taliban’s heartland, heavy fighting continued in Lashkar Gah, where surrounded government forces hoped to hold onto the capital of Helmand province.
On Wednesday, a suicide car bombing marked the latest wave of violence to target the capital’s regional police headquarters. By Thursday, the Taliban had taken the building, with some police officers surrendering to the militants and others retreating to the nearby governor’s office that’s still held by government forces, said Nasima Niazi, a lawmaker from Helmand.
Niazi criticized ongoing airstrikes targeting the area, saying civilians likely had been wounded and killed.
“The Taliban used civilian houses to protect themselves, and the government, without paying any attention to civilians, carried out airstrikes,” she said.
With the Afghan air power limited and in disarray, the U.S. Air Force is believed to be carrying out strikes. Aviation tracking data suggested U.S. Air Force B-52 bombers, F-15 fighter jets, drones and other aircraft were involved in the fighting across the country, according to Australia-based security firm The Cavell Group.
U.S. Air Force Maj. Nicole Ferrara, a Central Command spokeswoman, acknowledged that American forces “have conducted several airstrikes in defense of our Afghan partners in recent days.” However, she declined to offer any details on the attacks or to discuss the Afghan complaints of civilian casualties.
Late Thursday night, an Afghan official, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss developments, said the Taliban have also taken much of western Badghis province — but not the provincial army corps and the intelligence department. A Taliban tweet claimed the insurgents captured the seat of the provincial governor, the police headquarters and all other government offices.
Even as diplomats met in Doha, Qatar on Thursday, the success of the Taliban offensive called into question whether they would ever rejoin long-stalled peace talks aimed at moving Afghanistan toward an administration that includes members of the current Afghan government and the Taliban. Instead, the group could come to power by force — or the country could splinter into factional fighting like it did after the Soviet withdrawal in 1989.
The government’s High Council for National Reconciliation called for peace talks to resume, saying it had submitted a plan to Qatar, without elaborating.
___
Gambrell reported from Dubai, United Arab Emirates, and Faiez from Istanbul. Associated Press writers Hamed Sarfarazi in Herat, Afghanistan, and Kirsten Grieshaber in Berlin contributed to this report.










Taliban take Kandahar, Herat in major Afghanistan offensive


KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — The Taliban captured two major Afghan cities, the country's second- and third-largest after Kabul, and a strategic provincial capital on Thursday, further squeezing the embattled government just weeks before the end of the American military mission in Afghanistan.




apnews.com




Only two major cities are left. Kabul and Mazar Sharif. How long these may take?


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## sha ah

Herat and Kandahar have officially fallen. Hopefully this will put an end to the Opium trade. 

Yes Pakistan has sheltered the Taliban. Their leadership are in Pakistan from what I hear. However the Afghan / Kabul gov has no one to blame but themselves. 

They could have purchased helicopters / drones when the US announced their withdrawal months ahead. They could have forged an alliance with regional countries. 

They could have given cheap mining contracts to USA/NATO to keep them there. They could have actually fought the Taliban when the US troops and all the equipment was there. They didn't do any of that. They didn't tackle corruption. 

The US also screwed up. Withdrawing their troops was one thing but they should have kept their airforce in place, especially in Bagram. especially considering the fact that they trained the ANA to be dependent on air support, really this was vital. 

Otherwise the US should have trained the Afghan security forces for real life situation with more of a focus on counter insurgency training / urban fighting, as opposed to a western style dependent on air power. 

Anyways, could have, would have, should have. too little, too late. It's GAME OVER for Ashraf Ghani. He's probably packing as we speak.

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## GumNaam

Xone said:


> *Taliban take Kandahar, Herat in major Afghanistan offensive*
> By TAMEEM AKHGAR, RAHIM FAIEZ and JON GAMBRELL3 minutes ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 of 8
> Taliban fighters patrol inside the city of Ghazni, southwest of Kabul, Afghanistan, Thursday, Aug. 12, 2021. The Taliban captured the provincial capital near Kabul on Thursday, the 10th the insurgents have taken over a weeklong blitz across Afghanistan as the U.S. and NATO prepare to withdraw entirely from the country after decades of war. (AP Photo/Gulabuddin Amiri)
> 
> KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — The Taliban captured two major Afghan cities, the country’s second- and third-largest after Kabul, and a strategic provincial capital on Thursday, further squeezing the embattled government just weeks before the end of the American military mission there.
> The seizure of Kandahar and Herat marks the biggest prizes yet for the Taliban, who have taken 12 of Afghanistan’s 34 provincial capitals as part of a weeklong blitz.
> The capture of the city of Ghazni, meanwhile, cuts off a crucial highway linking the Afghan capital with the country’s southern provinces, which similarly find themselves under assault as part of an insurgent push some 20 years after U.S. and NATO troops invaded and ousted the Taliban government.
> While Kabul itself isn’t directly under threat yet, the losses and the battles elsewhere further tighten the grip of a resurgent Taliban, who are estimated to now hold over two-thirds of the country and are continuing to pressure government forces in several other provincial capitals.
> With security rapidly deteriorating, the United States planned to send in 3,000 troops to help evacuate some personnel from the U.S. Embassy in Kabul. Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said one Army and two Marine infantry battalions will enter Afghanistan within the next two days to assist at the Kabul airport with the partial embassy evacuation. Separately, Britain said about 600 troops would be deployed on a short-term basis to support British nationals leaving the country.
> Thousands of Afghans have fled their homes amid fears the Taliban will again impose a brutal, repressive government, all but eliminating women’s rights and conducting public amputations, stonings and executions. Peace talks in Qatar remain stalled, though diplomats met throughout the day.
> The latest U.S. military intelligence assessment suggests Kabul could come under insurgent pressure within 30 days and that, if current trends hold, the Taliban could gain full control of the country within a few months. The Afghan government may eventually be forced to pull back to defend the capital and just a few other cities in the coming days if the Taliban keep up their momentum.
> The onslaught represents a stunning collapse of Afghan forces and renews questions about where the over $830 billion spent by the U.S. Defense Department on fighting, training those troops, and reconstruction efforts went — especially as Taliban fighters ride on American-made Humvees and pickup trucks with M-16s slung across their shoulders.
> Afghan security forces and the government have not responded to repeated questions from journalists over the days of fighting, instead issuing video communiques that downplay the Taliban advance.
> In Herat, Taliban fighters rushed past the Great Mosque in the historic city — which dates to 500 BC and was once a spoil of Alexander the Great — and seized government buildings. Witnesses described hearing sporadic gunfire at one government building while the rest of the city fell silent under the insurgents’ control.
> Herat had been under militant attack for two weeks, with one wave blunted by the arrival of warlord Ismail Khan and his forces. But on Thursday afternoon, Taliban fighters broke through the city’s defensive lines and later said they were in control.
> Afghan lawmaker Semin Barekzai also acknowledged the city’s fall, saying that some officials there had escaped. Witnesses described seeing Taliban fighters once-detained at Herat’s prison now freely moving on the streets.
> It wasn’t immediately clear what happened to Khan, who earlier had been described as under attack with his forces at a government building.
> In Kandahar, the Taliban seized the governor’s office and other buildings, witnesses said. The governor and other officials fled the onslaught, catching a flight to Kabul, the witnesses added. They declined to be named publicly as the defeat has yet to be acknowledged by the government.
> The Taliban had earlier attacked a prison in Kandahar and freed inmates inside, officials said.
> Earlier Thursday, the militants raised their white flags imprinted with an Islamic proclamation of faith over the city of Ghazni, just 130 kilometers (80 miles) southwest of Kabul.
> Fighters crowded onto one seized Humvee and drove down a main road, with the golden dome of a mosque near the governor’s office visible behind them, yelling: “God is great!” The insurgents, cradling their rifles, later gathered at one roundabout for an impromptu speech by a commander. One militant carried a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.
> Ghazni provincial council member Amanullah Kamrani alleged that the provincial governor and police chief made a deal with the Taliban to flee after surrendering. Taliban video and photos purported to show the governor’s convoy freely passing by insurgents as part of the deal.
> Afghan Interior Ministry spokesman Mirwais Stanekzai later said the governor and his deputies had been arrested over that alleged deal. The officials could not be immediately reached for comment.
> Stanekzai also acknowledged in a video message that parts of Ghanzi had fallen, though he insisted government security forces “do exist” in the city.
> The loss of Ghazni — which sits along the Kabul-Kandahar Highway — could complicate resupply and movement for government forces, as well as squeeze the capital from the south.
> Already, the Taliban’s weeklong blitz has seen the militants seize nine other provincial capitals around the country. Many are in the country’s northeast corner, pressuring Kabul from that direction as well.
> In southern Afghanistan, the Taliban’s heartland, heavy fighting continued in Lashkar Gah, where surrounded government forces hoped to hold onto the capital of Helmand province.
> On Wednesday, a suicide car bombing marked the latest wave of violence to target the capital’s regional police headquarters. By Thursday, the Taliban had taken the building, with some police officers surrendering to the militants and others retreating to the nearby governor’s office that’s still held by government forces, said Nasima Niazi, a lawmaker from Helmand.
> Niazi criticized ongoing airstrikes targeting the area, saying civilians likely had been wounded and killed.
> “The Taliban used civilian houses to protect themselves, and the government, without paying any attention to civilians, carried out airstrikes,” she said.
> With the Afghan air power limited and in disarray, the U.S. Air Force is believed to be carrying out strikes. Aviation tracking data suggested U.S. Air Force B-52 bombers, F-15 fighter jets, drones and other aircraft were involved in the fighting across the country, according to Australia-based security firm The Cavell Group.
> U.S. Air Force Maj. Nicole Ferrara, a Central Command spokeswoman, acknowledged that American forces “have conducted several airstrikes in defense of our Afghan partners in recent days.” However, she declined to offer any details on the attacks or to discuss the Afghan complaints of civilian casualties.
> Late Thursday night, an Afghan official, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss developments, said the Taliban have also taken much of western Badghis province — but not the provincial army corps and the intelligence department. A Taliban tweet claimed the insurgents captured the seat of the provincial governor, the police headquarters and all other government offices.
> Even as diplomats met in Doha, Qatar on Thursday, the success of the Taliban offensive called into question whether they would ever rejoin long-stalled peace talks aimed at moving Afghanistan toward an administration that includes members of the current Afghan government and the Taliban. Instead, the group could come to power by force — or the country could splinter into factional fighting like it did after the Soviet withdrawal in 1989.
> The government’s High Council for National Reconciliation called for peace talks to resume, saying it had submitted a plan to Qatar, without elaborating.
> ___
> Gambrell reported from Dubai, United Arab Emirates, and Faiez from Istanbul. Associated Press writers Hamed Sarfarazi in Herat, Afghanistan, and Kirsten Grieshaber in Berlin contributed to this report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taliban take Kandahar, Herat in major Afghanistan offensive
> 
> 
> KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — The Taliban captured two major Afghan cities, the country's second- and third-largest after Kabul, and a strategic provincial capital on Thursday, further squeezing the embattled government just weeks before the end of the American military mission in Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only two major cities are left. Kabul and Mazar Sharif. How long these may take?


so, I know of an afghan at our local mosque who is from Mazar-i-Sharif and as per him, his family members there have said that Mazar-i-Sharif has basically fallen to the Taliban, the ghani regime officials are still there but the ana & police officials have basically surrendered to the Taliban and are letting them call the shots. it's only a matter of time before Mazar-i-Sharif is also declared as being under Taliban control. but as I said, an afghan from Mazar-i-Sharif told me that so it's coming through the grape vine, take it with a grain of salt for now.

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## Shahzaz ud din




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## Adecypher

Well where is the foreign mercenaries….Oh may be they are ONLY inside Kabul …???


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## Zee-shaun




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## GumNaam

sha ah said:


> Herat and Kandahar have officially fallen. Hopefully this will put an end to the Opium trade.
> 
> Yes Pakistan has sheltered the Taliban. Their leadership are in Pakistan from what I hear. However the Afghan / Kabul gov has no one to blame but themselves.
> 
> They could have purchased helicopters / drones when the US announced their withdrawal months ahead. They could have forged an alliance with regional countries.
> 
> They could have given cheap mining contracts to USA/NATO to keep them there. They could have actually fought the Taliban when the US troops and all the equipment was there. They didn't do any of that. They didn't tackle corruption.
> 
> The US also screwed up. Withdrawing their troops was one thing but they should have kept their airforce in place, especially in Bagram. especially considering the fact that they trained the ANA to be dependent on air support, really this was vital.
> 
> Otherwise the US should have trained the Afghan security forces for real life situation with more of a focus on counter insurgency training / urban fighting, as opposed to a western style dependent on air power.
> 
> Anyways, could have, would have, should have. too little, too late. It's GAME OVER for Ashraf Ghani. He's probably packing as we speak.


Pakistan has sheltered 4 fckin' million afghans and the world is whining about Pakistan sheltering a hand full of the Taliban leadership? that's some bullshit of epic proportions!

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## Xone

sha ah said:


> Herat and Kandahar have officially fallen. Hopefully this will put an end to the Opium trade.
> 
> Yes Pakistan has sheltered the Taliban. Their leadership are in Pakistan from what I hear. However the Afghan / Kabul gov has no one to blame but themselves.


Pakistan is neutral in this fight, without any favorites


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## GumNaam

Zee-shaun said:


>


translation: *this*👇 👇 👇 is coming to a kabul rooftop near the end of august...

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## sha ah

Regardless the Taliban never would have been able to do this without help from Pakistan. Their leadership is in Pakistan. They took sanctuary in Pakistan. Their manpower, supplies, weapons. You think it comes from thin air ? They started off with 50,000 militants. You think they eat dust ? or work a part time job ? LOL



GumNaam said:


> Pakistan has sheltered 4 fckin' million afghans and the world is whining about Pakistan sheltering a hand full of the Taliban leadership? that's some bullshit of epic proportions!

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## Adecypher

Zee-shaun said:


>


Very interesting development indeed … Well this will surely decrease the blood pressure of indians …


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## Xone

sha ah said:


> Regardless the Taliban never would have been able to do this without help from Pakistan. Their leadership is in Pakistan. They took sanctuary in Pakistan. Their manpower, supplies, weapons. You think it comes from thin air ? They started off with 50,000 militants. You think they eat dust ? or work a part time job ? LOL


ANA was there at the borderline, Pakistan has to fence it to protect it from Indian, afghan, and Iranian terrorism.


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## Clutch

sha ah said:


> Regardless the Taliban never would have been able to do this without help from Pakistan. Their leadership is in Pakistan. They took sanctuary in Pakistan. Their manpower, supplies, weapons. You think it comes from thin air ? They started off with 50,000 militants. You think they eat dust ? or work a part time job ? LOL



The Taliban have connections with the Pashtuns in Pakistan... They make money off of the trade between the two regions....

The Taliban are basically armed with basic rudimentary gorilla weapons... AK-47s and hand held rocket launchers.... Not a sophisticated military hi-tech insurgency...


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## 313ghazi

sha ah said:


> Regardless the Taliban never would have been able to do this without help from Pakistan. Their leadership is in Pakistan. They took sanctuary in Pakistan. Their manpower, supplies, weapons. You think it comes from thin air ? They started off with 50,000 militants. You think they eat dust ? or work a part time job ? LOL



Actually many of them worked govt jobs in the weekdays and were Taliban on weekends.


GumNaam said:


> Pakistan has sheltered 4 fckin' million afghans and the world is whining about Pakistan sheltering a hand full of the Taliban leadership? that's some bullshit of epic proportions!



38m Afghans and 4m in Pakistan?! That's ~10% of thier population.


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## sha ah

You can deny it all you want but the entire world is well aware. On all the news networks all the analysts mention Pakistan's crucial role in this Taliban offensive. Keep denying it but it doesn't change anything.



313ghazi said:


> Actually many of them worked govt jobs in the weekdays and were Taliban on weekends.
> 
> 
> 38m Afghans and 4m in Pakistan?! That's ~10% of thier population.

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## Zee-shaun

Adecypher said:


> Very interesting development indeed … Well this will surely decrease the blood pressure of indians …



I see another Saigon in the making. Time will tell.


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## Xone

sha ah said:


> You can deny it all you want but the entire world is well aware. On all the news networks all the analysts mention Pakistan's crucial role in this Taliban offensive. Keep denying it but it doesn't change anything.


Pakistan has a role in bringing all of them to the table. Blaming Pakistan will not change the reality. Pakistan wants a peaceful settlement of the problem. Pakistan is not like Iran to spread terrorism in the reign. nor do we have any secretive agenda.


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## Patriot forever

Shahzaz ud din said:


>



Seeing that bastard zaidi makes any Pakistanis blood boil. Son of a wh**e did everything he could against the state of Pakistan. Skin this dog alive and throw his body in the sea, such a vile corpse will pollute our land.

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## Battlion25

Pakistan's road to superpower status is solely linked to Afghanistan due to Stragetic depth.. Pakistan's interest in Afghanistan can't be underlined it is so great to the extent it becomes more important than any city in Pakistan. Pakistan needs a sole stragetic depth and Afghanistan provides the best stragetic depth anyone could ask for in the form of unpregnetable mountains which provides a fortress. The key here is for Pakistan to make a lasting deal with the IEA government and as you may know in any deal there is give and take.

IEA gives you 8 installations inside Afghanistan stragetic locations outside of civilian population centers to build 8 bases and installations preferably into the mountains. You deploy 1 mechanized division in these 8 bases and installations grouped into 8 battlions. This provides Pakistan with not only second strike capabilities but 100 times strike capabilities these peaks and mountain ranges have proven to be solid.

What you must give IEA in return is nuclear umbrella protection as your interest converge here plus assistance in rebuilding the IEA with lastest technology fighter jets, drones, tanks, and other military equipment. One thing you can trust is that the IEA never break their words once you reach an agreement with them. This is also pashtun traditions and this people keep their word to the last minute it is easy to work with someone like that. This provides Pakistan an unpregnetable incredible deterence to the point that nothing will be able to undo Pakistan elevating Pakistan into superpower status.

There has been some conspiracy theories of people murmuring about an attempt on Pakistan's sovereignty thru out the past years this will put to bed all these silly thoughts and drain it down the toilet.. Flushed out once and for all

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## Adecypher

Zee-shaun said:


> I see another Saigon in the making. Time will tell.


Yes, only time will tell...


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## ziaulislam

Gen. Tariq was right !.

There will be no civil war rather surrender

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## PakFactor

ziaulislam said:


> Gen. Tariq was right !.
> 
> There will be no civil war rather surrender



We are seeing a different strategy the Taliban is employing at this moment. Before these guys would butcher those surrendering in mass and let's not forget those warlords who were much more vile and being dealt with leniency. They learned diplomacy? I feel @Meengla and @313ghazi are correct in their assessment these are a learned bunch they aren't the mindless types as before.

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## Adecypher

PakFactor said:


> We are seeing a different strategy the Taliban is employing at this moment. Before these guys would butcher those surrendering in mass and let's not forget those warlords who were much more vile and being dealt with leniency. They learned diplomacy? I feel @Meengla and @313ghazi are correct in their assessment these are a learned bunch they aren't the mindless types as before.



I am just thinking out loud here *what IF* when Taliban is close to secure major cities including Kabul they will be attacked via sustained airstrikes in which they sustain huge jaani nuqsaan what will they do then...? You know at present they do not have air cover ... and after that sustained air strikes campaign the UN suddenly jump in the middle and put orders of a peace keeping force or a political reconciliation effort including all the players in Afghanistan, by then Taliban badly hurt and with reduced influence in cities where they were bombed will agree to the terms of their opposition... do you foresee such a scenario happening? and if NOT why...?

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## GumNaam

sha ah said:


> Regardless the Taliban never would have been able to do this without help from Pakistan. Their leadership is in Pakistan. They took sanctuary in Pakistan. Their manpower, supplies, weapons. You think it comes from thin air ? They started off with 50,000 militants. You think they eat dust ? or work a part time job ? LOL


if it's true, then frankly america should just tip its hat and step aside bowing out to Pakistan, cuz they aren't the real super powers, WE ARE! 😎

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## Battlion25

Adecypher said:


> I am just thinking out loud here *what IF* when Taliban is close to secure major cities including Kabul they will be attacked via sustained airstrikes in which they sustain huge jaani nuqsaan what will they do then...? You know at present they do not have air cover ... and after that sustained air strikes campaign the UN suddenly jump in the middle and put orders of a peace keeping force or a political reconciliation effort including all the players in Afghanistan, by then Taliban badly hurt and with reduced influence in cities where they were bombed will agree to the terms of their opposition... do you foresee such a scenario happening? and if NOT why...?



China and Pakistan will veto anything relating to that. China is prepared to recognize an IEA government


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## Adecypher

Battlion25 said:


> China and Pakistan will veto anything relating to that. China is prepared to recognize an IEA government



Don't you think by then it will be too late already since Taliban themselves have reduced influence and backing to support their case...i.e. after getting battered by airstrikes ... because to back ANY argument in their favor they have to show that yes they have control over that region in the Country and or they control the major Cities...


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## Titanium100

GumNaam said:


> so, I know of an afghan at our local mosque who is from Mazar-i-Sharif and as per him, his family members there have said that Mazar-i-Sharif has basically fallen to the Taliban, the ghani regime officials are still there but the ana & police officials have basically surrendered to the Taliban and are letting them call the shots. it's only a matter of time before Mazar-i-Sharif is also declared as being under Taliban control. but as I said, an afghan from Mazar-i-Sharif told me that so it's coming through the grape vine, take it with a grain of salt for now.



This wouldn't surprise me and if many other cities have accepted the same condition. The Afghan people are experienced and understand the ground realities that Taliban has a fuel to go on for another 100 years. The Afghan people fully understand there is no upside this war.. Negotiating with Taliban was the only way to avoiding this if you don't die today, next week, next year than you will surely die within the next decade but death is certainty when their is such never ending approach

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## Rafi

Saudang said:


> Just wondering if there were any real soldiers in ANA.. Seems like these soldiers were just for the monthly salary. Even the gangs in Mumbai or Karachi would have put up a better fight.



If they offered up some young boys as prizes, they would have fought like tigers.

On a serious point most half decent armies are led by NCO's and junior officers, and the afgoons had neither.


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## Titanium100

Adecypher said:


> Don't you think by then it will be too late already since Taliban themselves have reduced influence and backing to support their case...i.e. after getting battered by airstrikes ... because to back ANY argument in their favor they have to show that yes they have control over that region in the Country and or they control the major Cities...



What airstrikes you talking about bro? The US will take out their people from Kabul. It is over pretty much. They have even stopped carrying out airstrikes because they know everything is lost hence it is pointless and airstrikes won't do much if it didn't change anything in 20 years. Afghanistan is mountainouns regions. Nothing is capable to deter taliban except a large invaasion close to 200-300k incursion and even they will be out again in few years and depleted rinse and repeat.. They have good landscape for war and mountains terrain very difficult for that army to bring their hardware to high altitude and no roads up there it is on foot from there.. This is why the whole campagin has failed to begin with and same reason a previous Soviet campaign failed

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## M. Sarmad

Misleading Title 

Kandahar has not been captured but decolonized, LIBERATED and reclaimed 

More power to Afghan Freedom Fighters

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## Rafi

The talis are not 10 foot tall super soldiers, yes they would have eventually advanced with much bloodshed, but the ANA just surrendered and ran away.

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## Titanium100

Rafi said:


> On a serious point most half decent armies are led by NCO's and junior officers.



You don't understand this but would have only understood this if you were in the Afghan's shoes. You have two choices fight an eternal war that you will lose regardless or live for another day and don't waste your life in an pointless effort you don't have the stamina for nor the longevity for it. The decision becames easy and this is a song all the Afghan's have heard it before and they know how this song is gonna be playing forever beat by beat.. It's like a deja vu. When lives are on the line the brain always tends to defeat illogical thoughts and goes with the sound judgement

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## Adecypher

Titanium100 said:


> What airstrikes you talking about bro?


US has the capability to use drones, fighter jets, etc to attack their targets with good accuracy without even remotely close to the war theater...this is just my gut feeling that the west *will NOT* make a "cake walk" for Taliban in Afghanistan even after it seems they have left ... boom suddenly in the news you will hear airstrikes on Taliban compounds etc ... mind you there is less regard of collateral damage as we have witnessed in the past ...


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## CatSultan

Agha Sher said:


> Reports are coming in - mass retreat by army towards the airport


لا غالب الا الله


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## Titanium100

Adecypher said:


> US has the capability to use drones, fighter jets, etc to attack their targets with good accuracy without even remotely close to the war theater...this is just my gut feeling that the west *will NOT* make a "cake walk" for Taliban in Afghanistan even after it seems they have left ... boom suddenly in the news you will hear airstrikes on Taliban compounds etc ... mind you there is less regard of collateral damage as we have witnessed in the past ...



Lmao. You are being silly and do what? Kill civilians because does airstrikes won't be killing any Talibans. They have already held their airstrikes and have cut their losses short and getting their people out even before deadline. It is absolutely over. There is really nothing that can deter Taliban unless you are willing to put in another 300k ground forces and start a major war allover again rinse and repeat but everything else is fruitless conventionally they understand this

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## Adecypher

Save my posts here on this thread...ONLY time will tell if Taliban or their interests will be hit in surprise airstrikes in the future... we will talk then ...



Titanium100 said:


> Lmao. You are being silly and do what? Kill civilians



Were you living under the rock for last two decades "KILL CIVILIANS"!!!... do you know from where this term "Collateral Damage" is originated from...? I can cite so many references where a target full of innocent civilians have been bombed and or attacked in the name of hunting Taliban fighters resulting in countless innocent lives... dah


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## Titanium100

Adecypher said:


> Save my posts here on this thread...ONLY time will tell if Taliban or their interests will be hit in surprise airstrikes in the future... we will talk then ...



You don't undersetand how conventional war or even probability of engagements unfolds. What do you think an airstrike is a hydrogen bomb Airstrikes are not meant to win wars they have very little capacity effect but they can't deter someone like Taliban whos in advatageous terrain..If you ain't putting 300k foot soldiers on the ground there is really not much you can do conventionally and even they will be spitted out in couple years depleted and defeated rinse and repeat


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## Pak Nationalist

313ghazi said:


> Gifted to Afghans, not terrorists. The Afghan Taliban have not commited any acts of terrorism anywhere.


Let us be patient and watch how the situation unfolds. There are some very real fears that TTA's takeover could provide a boon to the TTP. Let us not make fools out of ourselves before the Indians in case TTA turns a blind eye to TTP's campaign of terror in our tribal districts using Afghanistan as a launchpad. As our govt says it is neutral, we as citizens must be the same. Wait to see how things unfold before swooning on any combatant party. A request.


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## Adecypher

Titanium100 said:


> You don't undersetand how conventional war or even probability of engagements unfolds. What do you think an airstrike is a hydrogen bomb Airstrikes are not meant to win wars they have very little effect but they can't deter someone like Taliban whos in advatageous terrain much..If you ain't putting 300k foot soldiers on the ground there is really not much you can do conventionally


OK again save my post because I am and we will surely come back and debate when what I have written will happen ... and BTW the objective is NOT to win war here, the objective is to keep the region in a chaos ....


----------



## Titanium100

Adecypher said:


> OK again save my post because I am and we will surely come back and debate when what I have written will happen ... and BTW the objective is NOT to win war here, the objective is to keep the region in a chaos ....



How are you gonna keep a region in which the people are tired of fighting why do you think the ANA is surrendering they dread this continous war more than anything else on earth.. This what happens to people that are war-weary. They are surrendering and defected in masses because they understand this is a lost war and forever they don't wanna participate in it.. All Afghans outside of Taliban are extremely war-weary.. Just watch the remaining cities will keep falling without much fighting they don't have the stomach to engage taliban in an forever conflict

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## Pak Nationalist

Titanium100 said:


> You don't undersetand how conventional war or even probability of engagements unfolds. What do you think an airstrike is a hydrogen bomb Airstrikes are not meant to win wars they have very little capacity effect but they can't deter someone like Taliban whos in advatageous terrain..If you ain't putting 300k foot soldiers on the ground there is really not much you can do conventionally and even they will be spitted out in couple years depleted and defeated rinse and repeat


Airstrikes turned the tide in Syria and Iraq because there were combatant forces on the ground (Iraqi army that had remnants from Baathist days and the fanatical Shia militias, SAA, and the battle-hardened Iranian proxies). In the case of ANA, the will to resist was just not there. 30-50k commandos who had some fight in them could not maintain the status quo in a country as large as Afghanistan. So, airstrikes could not replicate what these did in 2001 at the eve of the invasion when AT positions on the ground were pummeled by USAF and the Northern alliance swept southwards routing AT.


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## PakFactor

Adecypher said:


> I am just thinking out loud here *what IF* when Taliban is close to secure major cities including Kabul they will be attacked via sustained airstrikes in which they sustain huge jaani nuqsaan what will they do then...? You know at present they do not have air cover ... and after that sustained air strikes campaign the UN suddenly jump in the middle and put orders of a peace keeping force or a political reconciliation effort including all the players in Afghanistan, by then Taliban badly hurt and with reduced influence in cities where they were bombed will agree to the terms of their opposition... do you foresee such a scenario happening? and if NOT why...?



No, and the reason being China and Russia, this rising threat to the US & Co., has forced a strategic and tactical shift to the East. If they do any sort of act as you mentioned it’ll violate the agreement and will give full rights to the Taliban to react and hit US soft targets across the world. At this point in time they don’t want anything to stop their anti-China coalition building by being bogged down in the desert or mountains.


----------



## Adecypher

Pak Nationalist said:


> Airstrikes turned the tide in Syria and Iraq because there were combatant forces on the ground (Iraqi army that had remnants from Baathist days and the fanatical Shia militias, SAA, and the battle-hardened Iranian proxies). In the case of ANA, the will to resist was just not there. 30-50k commandos who had some fight in them could not maintain the status quo in a country as large as Afghanistan. So, airstrikes could not replicate what these did in 2001 at the eve of the invasion when AT positions on the ground were pummeled by USAF and the Northern alliance swept southwards routing AT.


Very good point


Titanium100 said:


> How are you gonna keep a region in which the people are tired of fighting why do you think the ANA is surrendering they dread this continous war more than anything else on earth.. This what happens to people that are war-weary. They are surrendering and defected in masses because they understand this is a lost war and forever they don't wanna participate in it.. All Afghans outside of Taliban are extremely war-weary.. Just watch the remaining cities will keep falling without much fighting they don't have the stomach to engage taliban in an forever conflict


I just don't see west accepting defeat so easily ... well I have saved this thread so we will see...


PakFactor said:


> No, and the reason being China, this rising threat to the US & Co., has forced a change strategic and tactical shift to the East. If they do any sort of act as you mentioned it’ll violate the agreement and will give full rights to the Taliban to react and hit US soft targets.


Sir, time will tell so far China is just acting as a spectator to all this even they know they have a big stake in the peace in Afghanistan as well...


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## PakFactor

Pak Nationalist said:


> Airstrikes turned the tide in Syria and Iraq because there were combatant forces on the ground (Iraqi army that had remnants from Baathist days and the fanatical Shia militias, SAA, and the battle-hardened Iranian proxies). In the case of ANA, the will to resist was just not there. 30-50k commandos who had some fight in them could not maintain the status quo in a country as large as Afghanistan. So, airstrikes could not replicate what these did in 2001 at the eve of the invasion when AT positions on the ground were pummeled by USAF and the Northern alliance swept southwards routing AT.



Let’s not forget besides special forces the bulk of the fighting in the initial stages were done by the Northern Alliance who had motivation and will like the TAs, the Americans just rode on their backs. You put one American in battle rotation after 1-2 tour he’s a PTSD patient for life, you can’t hustle a single man for 20+ years in the states they feel they have to much to lose, the Afghans have nothing to live for.


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## Titanium100

Adecypher said:


> I just don't see west accepting defeat so easily ... well I have saved this thread so we will see...



I explain to you why they chose to withdraw.. There is no stragetic signficiance for them in Afghanistan it is a pointless backyard that suks money out these competing for it plus there was nothing to gain from Afghanistan for them really except being a black-hole forever war.. They were losing alot money on it plus China and other countries were overtaking the US while spending in this blackhole it would have jeodardized them elsewhere while China, RUssia etc etc and everyone else was satisfied seeing the US get suked into that black-hole that is Afghanistan. They should have pulled out long time ago but they finally realized that they were fooled here by other powers and made a deal with Taliban that they won't host elements against them and than signed that agreement because they know Taliban logistically can't threaten them hence the war itself was stragetically pointless, demanding, money suking and enemies benefiting from it.. The decision of them pulling out is very important from stragetical point of view so that they can focus on the real threats facing them mainly China.. China could take Australia even Europe tomorrow if it really decided they won't be able to counter it this is why they pulled out to prepare defense and use the money on their defense and bolster their ranks for couple of decades

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Xone said:


> Pakistan is neutral in this fight, without any favorites


Almost - We have no love lost for Amrullah Saleh, Hamdullah Mohib and their ilk.

They will continue to spew poison against Pakistan and support and promote anti-Pakistan activities so long as they are able to.

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## MH.Yang

The USA failed in China (1927-1949), Vietnam (1954-1976), Cuba, Cambodia (1970-1975), etc. Why repeat it in Afghanistan? A government without the support of the people will perish sooner or later, even if it has the support of Americans.

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## Adecypher

Titanium100 said:


> I explain to you why they chose to withdraw.. There is *no stragetic signficiance for them in Afghanistan *



I don't think so, read below...complete article link is here:


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## islamrules2020

Taliban will never build a nation, they dont know how and never will, but thatsallgudman cuz all we need is the army of the black flags, 
the power of Taliban will encourage muslims across the world hopefully to challenge the New World Order that is enslaving us through the lie that is the banking system,
once the pieces are in place, the $$ AKA toilet paper money will collapse and we are free, 
this is for me truly a dream about destroying the global banking System through a global muslim revolt led spiritually by the Taliban but the troops will be all 3 billion muslims,
just imagine a world free of the banking terror, 
not even the hardcore anti muslim would go against it ,
and the only power challenging these evil globalists is islam and Taliban


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## PakFactor

Adecypher said:


> I don't think so, read below...complete article link is here:
> 
> View attachment 769272



Its just an opinion piece —
Realty is just different and much more fluid they can keep an eye on it next 20+ years and ground realty will not change.


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## Adecypher

PakFactor said:


> Its just an opinion piece —
> Realty is just different and much more fluid they can keep an eye on it next 20+ years and ground realty will not change.


I have other references from Brookings Institute as well as other which I do not want to link here which also indicates that the strategy is remote assistance plus intelligence based special ops ... the notion which so many on this thread have that US will eventually completely leave this Country or more broadly the region is false... you do know that there is a critical mass in US who also think that Pakistani nukes are not safe given if Pakistan somehow (Allah SWT na karey) went into chaos or become instable so yes on paper it seems US is wrapping up but it isn't or have liberty of completely closing its engagement...

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## SQ8

FOOLS_NIGHTMARE said:


> It's official from many sources.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425927600262815748
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425927484734902275
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425926622696333316


AP is really the one that matters - it really is a mirror of history with the NVA heading to Saigon.
The only difference is that Vietnam had no logical real reason where here the US should have left right after OP Anaconda and used its well placed intel to get OBL instead of the lives and money spent in a region and people who want nothing to do with the west except for green cards.


Adecypher said:


> I have other references from Brookings Institute as well as other which I do not want to link here which also indicates that the strategy is remote assistance plus intelligence based special ops ... the notion which so many on this thread have that US will eventually completely leave this Country of more broadly the region is false... you do know that there is a critical mass in US who also think that *Pakistani nukes are not safe given if Pakistan somehow (Allah SWT na karey) went into chaos or instability* so yes on paper it seems US is wrapping up but it isn't or have liberty of completely closing its engagement...


A lot of it is being perpetuated by NRIs or their lobbyist associates.US military vets and current members for the most part don’t express than but these funded think tanks and lobbyists are pushing that narrative vociferously. Khadim Rizvi types don’t help either.

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## Adecypher

SQ8 said:


> A lot of it is being perpetuated by NRIs or their lobbyist associates.US military vets and current members for the most part don’t express than but these funded think tanks and lobbyists are pushing that narrative vociferously. Khadim Rizvi types don’t help either.



Sir, unfortunately these "special interests" groups or think tanks have a very influential (deep pockets) presence in the corridors of policy making and that what makes the difference and sadly vets have not much say or weightage in final decision making equation ...

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## SQ8

Adecypher said:


> Sir, unfortunately these "special interests" groups or think tanks have a very influential (deep pockets) presence in the corridors of policy making and that what makes the difference and sadly vets have not much say or weightage in final decision making equation ...


And that is how the United States in general works as a system. Want something done, either have a very very strong domestic voter backing or pay money.

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## Adecypher

SQ8 said:


> And that is how the United States in general works as a system. Want something done, either have a very very strong domestic voter backing or pay money.


I concur.


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## Titanium100

Adecypher said:


> I don't think so, read below...complete article link is here:



This is hilarious stuff from so-called think tank and the text it self was so vague as it can be.. Who are these people are they gonna land from the sky.. He clearly says no US troops.. Who are these said people than? They don't emerge from thin air.. Pakistan will settle inside Afghanistan post-war and create depth the US ain't coming this way I guaraante you that and there is no way to militarily counter Taliban if you ain't putting heavy puts on the ground around 300k and anything else is not feasible... The focus is solely to focus on their main theater which is in East-Europe at the event of a major world conflict break out that is their main stragetic theater and to try to conquer the world from there inch by inch to create another US hegemony which demends on them actully winning the war and whoever wins the war will shape the world in his image this is what they truly are focussed on and they realize they could lose such war if Russia, China gathers other alliances.. No aid is coming to anyone in Asia or ocenia not Taiwan, South Korea, Japan or Australia


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## pakpride00090

SQ8 said:


> AP is really the one that matters - it really is a mirror of history with the NVA heading to Saigon.
> The only difference is that Vietnam had no logical real reason where here the US should have left right after OP Anaconda and used its well placed intel to get OBL instead of the lives and money spent in a region and people who want nothing to do with the west except for green cards.
> 
> A lot of it is being perpetuated by NRIs or their lobbyist associates.US military vets and current members for the most part don’t express than but these funded think tanks and lobbyists are pushing that narrative vociferously. Khadim Rizvi types don’t help either.


U.S. contingency plan for Pakistani nukes - UPI.com 

I don't think what you are saying is entirely correct.


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## Adecypher

Titanium100 said:


> This is hilarious stuff from so-called think tank and the text it self was so vague as it can be.. Who are these people are they gonna land from the sky.. He clearly says no US troops.. Who are these said people than? They don't emerge from thin air.. Pakistan will settle inside Afghanistan post-war and create depth the US ain't coming this way.. I guaraante you that. The focus is solely to focus on their main theater which is in East-Europe at the event of a major world conflict break out that is their main stragetic and to try to conquer the world from the inch by inch.. No aid is coming to anyone in Asia or ocenia not Taiwan, South Korea, Japan or Australia


Well your argument was Afghanistan have lost strategic significance (troops or no troops) for US and it seems you were wrong... the other stuff you so painstakingly wrote have no significance...


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## xyx007

Imran Khan said:


> really did you ever heard sir ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of massacres in Afghanistan - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


This is not a source from which the Afghan Taliban could be blamed for a crime they did not commit. This wiki article needs additional citations for verification.


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## islamrules2020

we all remember what the late Emir Mullah Omar said :
*"Bush has promised us defeat but Allah swt has promised us victory, I guess we will see whos promise will be fulfilled "*
Bush right now must feel like the biggest idiot in the world , causing his country trillions just to hand over the country back to Mullah Omar predessessor in less then what ? 2 months ?
what a joke !!
and what a victory to islam

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## Titanium100

Adecypher said:


> Well your argument was Afghanistan have lost strategic significance (troops or no troops) for US and it seems you were wrong... the other stuff you so painstakingly wrote have no significance...



As long as it is not stagging anything against it has completely lost significiance to them and this has something to do with where the world is heading right now. We are sort of in a peroid of technological explosion is happening and their claim to superpower has been chellenged by several state actors this is competition period and will keep escalating... What makes you think they would put an irrelevant place like Afghanistan over there future lives and a place that doesn't even threatens them logistically as their first pririoty.. There is a much bigger greater game going on and taliban is completely harmless to them and insignificiant for them right now hence why they just left in that manner because they have other priorities


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## DJ_Viper

pakpride00090 said:


> U.S. contingency plan for Pakistani nukes - UPI.com
> 
> I don't think what you are saying is entirely correct.



The US always has a contingency plan for critical issues, including within itself. The FBI has been capturing a lot of domestic terrorists and it's been in the news. So the point is, as the only true superpower in the globe, the US would ensure safety in case, for everyone, including itself and internal security is not taken lightly either as I've given an example.

But a contingency plan should not be accounted for open hostility or the other side becoming an enemy. Plus UPI is a paid source and very questionable.


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## Adecypher

Titanium100 said:


> What makes you think they would put an irrelevant place like Afghanistan over there future lives and a place that doesn't even threatens them logistically


Yeah ... an irrelevant place that cost US trillions of dollars right very irrelevant...and for putting lives on stake the war will be (or is) privatized ... also if you wear your thinking hat you will realize that any long term strategic and economic benefit for China from Afghanistan is inversely proportional to US long term interests ...


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## Titanium100

Adecypher said:


> Yeah ... an irrelevant place that cost US trillions of dollars right very irrelevant...and for putting lives on stake the war will be (or is) privatized ... also if you wear your thinking hat you will realize that any long term strategic and economic benefit for China from Afghanistan is inversely proportional to US long term interests ...



Yeah but you ain't achieving that in Afghanistan without dropping another trillions into it and putting in massive ground forces and another grinding down war that could last another few more dacades rinse and repeat.. Afghanistan is a black-hole and there is no upside to gain from it whatsoever.. It has no positive gains but only negatives. The Soviets entire economy collapsed due to Afghanistan it is a notorious black-hole and entirely avoidable since it doesn't contribute anything to the world order

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## Rana4pak

Who is biggest loser in afghanistan after India in my opinion is *Iran.*Iran gave support india in afghanistan.acts against Pakistan interests n hoping to bypass Pakistan through chabahar and helped india for terrotist activities in Pakistan.

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## pakpride00090

DJ_Viper said:


> The US always has a contingency plan for critical issues, including within itself. The FBI has been capturing a lot of domestic terrorists and it's been in the news. So the point is, as the only true superpower in the globe, the US would ensure safety in case, for everyone, including itself and internal security is not taken lightly either as I've given an example.
> 
> But a contingency plan should not be accounted for open hostility or the other side becoming an enemy. Plus UPI is a paid source and very questionable.



American exceptionalism eh..

I have seen the hearing myself on internet. Couldn't find it right now so just linked the first webpage that popped , but I know for the fact that she said that ... saw it with my own eyes.


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## Titanium100

Rana4pak said:


> my opinion is *Iran.*



They have nothing to lose but something to gain. Americans are not in their backyard breathing down their neck because if their was any escalation in Iraq or Israel the US were gonna use Afghanistan to attack plus Iran has etbalished relations with Taliban and trade is open between their borders. they are somehow related and speak same language which is a plus in their cooperations and trading


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## Titanium100

As I have said earlier Ghani is the only person who is behind the war because the deal with the taliban signed two years ago was based on him resigning and new interim government coming. He betrayed the Taliban deal leading to the conflict we see now and Taliban gains


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426004183031767044


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## Rana4pak

Titanium100 said:


> They have nothing to lose but something to gain. Americans are not in their backyard breathing down their neck because if their was any escalation in Iraq or Israel the US were gonna use Afghanistan to attack plus Iran has etbalished relations with Taliban and trade is open between their borders. they are somehow related and speak same language which is a plus in their cooperations and trading


Iran now a days speaking language of *loser *


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## Adecypher

Titanium100 said:


> Yeah but you ain't achieving that


Achieving what?


----------



## Titanium100

This is some early predictions by a Taliban envoy in Russia early into the campaign basically 2 weeks ago


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425929754088296451


Adecypher said:


> Achieving what?



Blocking BRI

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## Battlion25

Helmand may have fallen


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426007983952121860


----------



## Adecypher

Titanium100 said:


> Blocking BRI



For that as I am repeatedly stating ... wait and see.

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## Titanium100

Adecypher said:


> For that as I am repeatedly stating ... wait and see.



lmao.. You can't just conjure something 300k out of thin air.. There has to be logistics attached to it


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## islamrules2020

Titanium100 said:


> Blocking BRI


it should be blocked if u ask me, the evil Chinese know whats coming their way, they are already sadly in the bones of Pakistan, but if a Muslim coalition is created Pakistan wont be that needy to China against India, in all truth a new strong muslim empire is the only hope for the west to defeat China.
thats whts coming,
a muslim christian alliance against China , and the BRI will be the cause of the war


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## Adecypher

Titanium100 said:


> lmao.. You can't just conjure something 300k out of thin air.. There has to be logistics attached to it


Yes, sometimes it is wise to wait and watch ... and I will come back and ask you when that happen...then do not run away ...


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## Titanium100

islamrules2020 said:


> it should be blocked if u ask me



No it shouldn't be blocked. Taliban is friends with China and will support the BRI for ecnomical gains and support China's causes such as Taiwan issues etc etc


Adecypher said:


> Yes, sometimes it is wise to wait and watch ... and I will come back and ask you when that happen...then do not run away ...



Oh right we will be waiting together for the Stars wars's storm troppers to magically come from the skies and the outer galaxy


----------



## Adecypher

Titanium100 said:


> No it shouldn't be blocked. Taliban is allies with China and will support the BRI for ecnomical gains
> 
> 
> Oh right we will be waiting together for the Stars wars's storm troppers to magically come from the skies and the outer galaxy


There you go ...


----------



## islamrules2020

Titanium100 said:


> No it shouldn't be blocked. Taliban is allies with China and will support the BRI for ecnomical gains


Taliban dont care about economy or building a nation, they just want to secure their territory at first and avoid an attack by the chinks, before they can build up their military power but Allah knows best


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## chinasun

Why has India always stood side by side with the invasion of Afghanistan?


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## Titanium100

Lashkar gah has fallen according to some reports

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425992505682710535

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## islamrules2020

Titanium100 said:


> Lashkar gah has fallen according to some reports
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425992505682710535


this is some pretty heavy guy, he would be hard to hang from a tree or an electric cable 🤣

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## Titanium100

islamrules2020 said:


> Taliban dont care about economy or building a nation..



The politics in far-Asia and central Asia is completely different compared to west (Magreeb). Taliban has to align policies with Pakistan and China they are the big boys in this backyard and not India because they are sort of sealed away behind barrier from the Eurasian continent by China and Pakistan.. China needs Pakistan to contain India and Pakistan needs China for the same reasons Taliban has to align her policies with them.. Taliban is cool with both and there is benefit in there for them and economical growth. Ofcourse they care about economy


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## MH.Yang

I believe that any neighbouring country will benefit if peace is restored in Afghanistan. Peace will bring trade and prosperity, while war will only bring chaos and failure.
One thing can be confirmed: China will not send troops to Afghanistan, and China has never interfered in the internal affairs of other countries.


If the Afghan people are willing, China is willing to send engineers, doctors, teachers and other technical personnel to help Afghanistan rebuild your country.
If you doubt us, we can also close the wahan corridor. We will not disturb the choice of the Afghan people.

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## Titanium100

islamrules2020 said:


> this is some pretty heavy guy, he would be hard to hang from a tree or an electric cable 🤣




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426014091722862599


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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426014007908085760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426020323846201344


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## Adecypher

MH.Yang said:


> I believe that any neighbouring country will benefit if peace is restored in Afghanistan.


For the sake of peace will China willing to provide air defense systems to the future ruling power in Afghanistan?


----------



## Sharma Ji

Titanium100 said:


> @waz @LeGenD @The Eagle
> 
> Look at this garbage being posted here a meme making fun of ''Allah Akbar''


it's just a funny OBL video, relax

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## Imran Khan

xyx007 said:


> This is not a source from which the Afghan Taliban could be blamed for a crime they did not commit. This wiki article needs additional citations for verification.


what was your age when Mazar-i-Sharif Anti-Hazara massacre were happen ? its still in memory of every hazara . 1998 is not too far . i dont want a link to remember it .


Sharma Ji said:


> it's just a funny OBL video, relax


say him saint OBL you kaffir

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## Imran Khan

Itachi said:


> You and your fellow band of liberals and secularists can keep burning.
> 
> 
> View attachment 769244
> 
> 
> And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish."
> 
> Chapter 17, Sūrat l-Isrā, The Night Journey
> 
> 
> Most of the pre-2000 have false numbers or were committed against soldiers who're valid targets.
> 
> After 2000's, most were committed by the ANA or US/NATO/ISAF. So who're you kidding here?? Have you even read what you posted lol??


please do not insult islam to label on these terrorist as huq . shame on you . quraan is far greater then these unch of terrorists . . ask any hazara that mazar e sharif masscare was fake and he will skin you there . just try .

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426018253923569665


----------



## Goritoes

VCheng said:


> And yet Gen Tariq wants us to believe otherwise. Who is he trying to convince?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan provided “strategic depth” to Afghanistan – Gen. Tariq Khan hits back!
> 
> 
> Pakistan provided “strategic depth” to Afghanistan – Gen. Tariq Khan hits back! Gen. Tariq Khan argues in a hard-hitting piece that history bears witness that it is Pakistan that provides strategic depth to Afghanistan against foreign occupations, for migrations and international trade and not...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



Gen Tariq definitely know more than you and Meegla, Plus I don't think he needs to convince anyone, Taliban advances are in front of the world and so is Pakistan, US has the best Spy network and satellites in the world, if Pakistan was helping Afghan Taliban in any way this would have come out by now.


VCheng said:


> As long as Americans are assured that they will not be attacked from that region again, for which promises have been made and commitments given.



Simple solution is to increase the screening on Airports.


VCheng said:


> The 64,000 rupee question now is where does Pakistan go from here?



As a certain member here always says, Countries should do what's best in their interests

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## Rakesh

chinasun said:


> Why has India always stood side by side with the invasion of Afghanistan?


Err....remember the name Richard Armitage and his famous threat ?


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

This much from the HARAM folks under the HARAM masters, and fed with the HARAM money…..

The _Ehl-i Sheyatin_ are domed to the failure sooner or later…..

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## MH.Yang

Adecypher said:


> For the sake of peace will China willing to provide air defense systems to the future ruling power in Afghanistan?



I don't know, but I think military trade will only occur when two countries trust each other, just like China and Pakistan. And I think education and infrastructure should be the top priority investment, not the purchase of weapons.

The government should take good care of your people. As long as there is the support of the people, no enemy can defeat you. If not, buying more weapons will not prevent your failure.

If every Afghan can have a rich dinner in a warm house, if every Afghan child can receive education in school. I believe that every Afghan is willing to abandon his AK47.

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## Goritoes

SQ8 said:


> And that is how the United States in general works as a system. Want something done, either have a very very strong domestic voter backing or pay money.



Or Covert Operations using CIA.


Titanium100 said:


> Lashkar gah has fallen according to some reports
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425992505682710535



Why they hate Punjabi's so much?


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## Cash GK

Imran Khan said:


> what was your age when Mazar-i-Sharif Anti-Hazara massacre were happen ? its still in memory of every hazara . 1998 is not too far . i dont want a link to remember it .
> 
> say him saint OBL you kaffir


N you was there while they were killing rit? Don't you know how intelligence agencies n media works.. I am going to tell you story of a doctor from gujar khan from my home town . He went there in Afghanistan when talib was ruling there. He higher afgan taxi driver. In middle of journey driver got more greedy and started asking more money. While they were having arguments. There was a man appeared there with broken cloths and carrying woods on head. He asked the reason for arguments. Pakistani doctor told him the story. He asked them if they agree to take him Judge in this matter. They said oky after hearing them he gave the judgment in favor of Pakistani doctor. Afghan refused to accept the decision. Then he showed him his card n he was Defence minister of Afghanistan. That taxi driver left no choice to accept the decision. Why i am telling this story because that doctor was best friend of my late grandfather. So everything you are believing is not true. Look we are grown men and we have brain. We must know what info is true n what info is not true.

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## Zarvan

LashkarGah has also fallen. So has another smaller capital of a smaller province.


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## Pak Nationalist

PakFactor said:


> Let’s not forget besides special forces the bulk of the fighting in the initial stages were done by the Northern Alliance who had motivation and will like the TAs, the Americans just rode on their backs. You put one American in battle rotation after 1-2 tour he’s a PTSD patient for life, you can’t hustle a single man for 20+ years in the states they feel they have to much to lose, the Afghans have nothing to live for.


I am talking about the special forces of the ANA right now. The commando units are the only units of ANA that have historically shown some fight. They are too few relative to the size of the country to turn the tide or maintain the status quo though.

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## islamrules2020

Germany will not provide any financial support to Afghanistan if the Taliban takes over power in the country and introduces Sharia law

Taliban's better to change the Sharia with liberal globalist multiculti german gender fluid democracy says their gay looking forein minister , or so help him god he will cut off 400 millions of foreign aid money 🤣🤣.


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## MH.Yang

islamrules2020 said:


> Taliban dont care about economy or building a nation, they just want to secure their territory at first and avoid an attack by the chinks, before they can build up their military power but Allah knows best



I do not konw why you think China will invade Afghanistan? Because China has been invaded by foreign troops, we understand the pain and fear of many countries , so we will never interfere in the internal affairs of other countries.
We used to get wet in the rain, so we would send umbrellas to pedestrians instead of splashing water. 

Since 1949, we have never sent troops to subvert any country, nor have we used intelligence organizations to subvert any country. Even the USA recognizes this. 
Even after North Korea repulsed US troops, we left North Korea immediately without leaving a soldier. And the US military is still in South Korea now.
Don't think China and the USA are the same kind of country. 

China and Afghanistan are neighbors. Everyone wants neighbors to be friends, because we will be together for many years. 
China is a trading country. Trade needs peace. We hope for peace. We will not be foolish enough to undermine the peace process in Afghanistan.

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## CIA Mole

MH.Yang said:


> I do not konw why you think China will invade Afghanistan? Because China has been invaded by foreign troops, we understand the pain and fear of many countries , so we will never interfere in the internal affairs of other countries.
> We used to get wet in the rain, so we would send umbrellas to pedestrians instead of splashing water.
> 
> Since 1949, we have never sent troops to subvert any country, nor have we used intelligence organizations to subvert any country. Even the USA recognizes this.
> Even after North Korea repulsed US troops, we left North Korea immediately without leaving a soldier. And the US military is still in South Korea now.
> Don't think China and the USA are the same kind of country.
> 
> China and Afghanistan are neighbors. Everyone wants neighbors to be friends, because we will be together for many years.
> China is a trading country. Trade needs peace. We hope for peace. We will not be foolish enough to undermine the peace process in Afghanistan.




only way to defeat taliban might be a drone army/air force that works day and night and has no fear


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## Titanium100

CIA Mole said:


> only way to defeat taliban might be a drone army/air force that works day and night and has no fear



Don't you think that is already tried.. Bomb of all mother was utilized. You need to understand the dynamics of war. Without a large ground forces everything is futile and waste of time this is how the US and the Soviets approached the afghan war putting in large numbers. The thing is they have good terrain so conventionally better armed forces like the US or the Soviets failed here because of the terrain it partially negated their advantages and forced them to go high altitude without being able to carry some of the heavy stuff up there just light arms and mostly on foot.. It is a treacherous terrain you can only understand it when you see it with your eyes.. You can't take an AV from one mountain to another there is no road linked it is on foot


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## CIA Mole

Titanium100 said:


> Don't you think that is already tried.. Bomb of all mother was utilized. You need to understand the dynamics of war. Without a large ground forces everything is futile and waste of time. The thing is they have good terrain so conventionally better armed forces like the US or the Soviets failed here because of the terrain partially it negated their advanteous and forced them to go high altitude without being able to carry some of the heavy stuff up there just a fire arm.. It is a treacherous terrain you can only understand it when you see it with your eyes




ground drones included

maybe gundams


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## Titanium100

CIA Mole said:


> ground drones included
> 
> maybe gundams



The US was even conducting drone strikes inside tribal areas which was even outside of the operation theater they did everything they could inside the operation theater but due to the vast mountains they couldn't do anything. Because they can see drones or jets or helicopters before it arrives. Get out of the and attack again...


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## Battlion25

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426064520611602439


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## Saho

How are ANA still alive? I thought their morals would collapse after all that embarassment.


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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426064555390742530


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## Patriot forever

Logar
Ghor
Zabul 
Uruzgan
provinces have also fallen.

That makes 18 capitals sofar?


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## Patriot forever

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426056146079690754
We need a brutal purge. Long has enemy being given a free reign to influence the minds of our people.

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## Irfan Baloch

Cash GK said:


> N you was there while they were killing rit? Don't you know how intelligence agencies n media works.. I am going to tell you story of a doctor from gujar khan from my home town . He went there in Afghanistan when talib was ruling there. He higher afgan taxi driver. In middle of journey driver got more greedy and started asking more money. While they were having arguments. There was a man appeared there with broken cloths and carrying woods on head. He asked the reason for arguments. Pakistani doctor told him the story. He asked them if they agree to take him Judge in this matter. They said oky after hearing them he gave the judgment in favor of Pakistani doctor. Afghan refused to accept the decision. Then he showed him his card n he was Defence minister of Afghanistan. That taxi driver left no choice to accept the decision. Why i am telling this story because that doctor was best friend of my late grandfather. So everything you are believing is not true. Look we are grown men and we have brain. We must know what info is true n what info is not true.


please dont insult yourself and others by denying the savagery of Afghan taliban
they are one and same in their ideologyand conduct like TTP and Daesh.

I have lived long enough next to Afghanistan to meet the families of the victims who were massacred for their ethnicities and faith.

no foreign media or propogenda can replicate the real events and living scarred witnesses. Taliban are brutal savages to all Afghan people this is why they are hated by a substantial Afghan population. just because they are winning against a curropt regime doesnt make them right.

@Imran Khan 
I am shocked and saddened by the misplaced celebrations by fellow Pakistanis here over the Taliban victories .. whats in store for Pakistan will sadly come soon and these celebrations will haunt us.. because the real benefactors are TTP. who will unleash another reign of terror on Pakistan.

question is.. why these beloved Afghan Taliban have not attacked TTP or BLA? its because the first ones are their brothers and second ones they don't care.

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## Cash GK

Irfan Baloch said:


> please dont insult yourself and others by denying the savagery of Afghan taliban
> they are one and same in their ideologyand conduct like TTP and Daesh.
> 
> I have lived long enough next to Afghanistan to meet the families of the victims who were massacred for their ethnicities and faith.
> 
> no foreign media or propogenda can replicate the real events and living scarred witnesses. Taliban are brutal savages to all Afghan people this is why they are hated by a substantial Afghan population. just because they are winning against a curropt regime doesnt make them right.
> 
> @Imran Khan
> I am shocked and saddened by the misplaced celebrations by fellow Pakistanis here over the Taliban victories .. whats in store for Pakistan will sadly come soon and these celebrations will haunt us.. because the real benefactors are TTP. who will unleash another reign of terror on Pakistan.
> 
> question is.. why these beloved Afghan Taliban have not attacked TTP or BLA? its because the first ones are their brothers and second ones they don't care.


I have seen thousands of Afghans who moved after us n nato attack. But later they were kicked out by zaradri. I told you the story what it was. Second can they win with out local support. Man it is not child game. They are wining with the speed which can not possible with out support of their own people simple logic. Who i am to side them. I just want people in Kabul side by Islamabad. Because my people lost 70 lives.


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## Big_bud

Agha Sher said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425819377379598337
> This is from 1+ hour ago



Seems like all the pussies were employed by Afghan army whereas all the fighters remained with Talibs? How come Talibs with no money, broken flip flops, ragged old clothes, aging AK47s and basic rocket launchers could win so easily against top notch US equipment and decades long trainings? Along with air support?

I heard Afghan general saying we need air support because the little helicopters we have are busy in transportation of goods & injured! My question is which air support Talibans get? Who picks up their dead? And who brings them weapons other than that they can carry on their backs? Whats up with this Afghan army?

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## khansaheeb

Canada to deploy special forces to assist Afghan embassy evacuation as major cities fall under Taliban assault – reports


Canadian special forces troops will be deployed to help evacuate diplomatic staff from Ottawa’s embassy in Afghanistan, according to multiple reports, following similar moves by the US and UK amid a devastating Taliban offensive.




www.rt.com




*Canada to deploy special forces to assist Afghan embassy evacuation as major cities fall under Taliban assault – reports*
13 Aug, 2021 03:32 / Updated 2 hours ago
Get short URL





FILE PHOTO: A Canadian CH-146 Griffon helicopter flies behind soldiers during a patrol in the Panjwai district of Kandahar province, in southern Afghanistan, June 27, 2011. © Reuters / Baz Ratner

Follow RT on


Canadian special forces troops will be deployed to help evacuate diplomatic staff from Ottawa’s embassy in Afghanistan, according to multiple reports, following similar moves by the US and UK amid a devastating Taliban offensive.
The special operators will work alongside British and American counterparts to ensure civilian personnel leave the country safely as fighting ramps up, unnamed Canadian officials told the Associated Press, CBC and Global News on Thursday night.
While the officials did not say how many troops will be sent, a source told CBC that the government does not plan a large presence, suggesting it would be smaller than Washington or London’s embassy deployments, which include 600 British and 3,000 American soldiers.
ALSO ON RT.COMUS cuts staff at Kabul embassy down to ‘core presence’ as Taliban closes in
A number of Afghan nationals who worked for the Canadian government, as well as their families, also hope to be evacuated along with Canadian citizens, but officials have not decided on where they should go, Global News reported. A planeload of Afghan workers was sent to Canada earlier this month amid the Taliban’s latest offensive, while the government says it’s resettled more than 800 Afghans over the last decade.
The rapid evacuations were ordered earlier on Thursday as Taliban fighters continue a relentless offensive across Afghanistan, seizing around a dozen provincial capitals over the last week, including Kandahar on Thursday, the country’s second-largest city and formerly the home of Canada’s military mission.
Later in the evening, a Taliban spokesperson declared the militant group had also captured Lashkar Gah, capital of Helmand province, claiming the major southern city is now _“under the complete control of the mujahideen”_ and that large numbers of government troops had surrendered after suffering _“heavy casualties.”_
*READ MORE: UK to send 600 troops back to Afghanistan to aid evacuation*
After a week of rapid gains, the Taliban now controls around two-thirds of Afghanistan, stoking fears it could soon threaten the national capital of Kabul. Early on Thursday, the group seized Ghazni city, an important strategic checkpoint between Kandahar and Kabul, putting its fighters within 80 miles (128km) of the capital. 
Before largely withdrawing in 2014, Canada kept around 40,000 soldiers stationed in Afghanistan for 13 years as part of a joint NATO mission, though its troop levels paled compared to the more than 100,000 US soldiers deployed at their peak during the Barack Obama administration.
Twenty years after the invasion, an American withdrawal is also moving ahead, with the Pentagon stating last month that the exit is more than 90% complete. While the US has stepped up airstrikes on the Taliban in recent weeks, they have done little to slow the group’s advance. Nonetheless, anonymous US officials recently told the New York Times that a fresh bombing campaign may be in the cards should Kandahar or Kabul fall, suggesting US combat operations in the country could continue beyond President Joe Biden’s September 11 withdrawal deadline.
ALSO ON RT.COMTaliban claims capture of Afghanistan’s 2nd-largest city Kandahar as govt forces reportedly withdraw (VIDEOS)
*Think your friends would be interested? Share this story!*


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## SD 10

Durran3 said:


> In my heart I am deeply saddened that this is happening. I feel for the innocent civilians women, men and children who will now be forced to live under these cockroaches with complete indignity.
> 
> Women now won’t be able to go to clinics, no more school parks, zero prospects for higher education, Garbage trash ideology completely devoid of reality and what works in the 21st century.


blah blah!


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## 313ghazi

Irfan Baloch said:


> @Imran Khan
> I am shocked and saddened by the misplaced celebrations by fellow Pakistanis here over the Taliban victories .. whats in store for Pakistan will sadly come soon and these celebrations will haunt us.. because the real benefactors are TTP. who will unleash another reign of terror on Pakistan.
> 
> question is.. why these beloved Afghan Taliban have not attacked TTP or BLA? its because the first ones are their brothers and second ones they don't care.



I guess we'll have to wait and see. In my opinion they'll have no choice but to shut down people like the TTP and the BLA - otherwise they risk us closing our borders and starving them effectively. Something we should have done to Karzai and the Ghani regime in my opinion. Unfortunately we were too afraid of American backlash to try anything. 

Similarly they seem to be building relations with Iran, which in my opinion is essential for them too. They need another route to the sea to not become puppets of Pakistan. I suppose the price of that relationship will be not slaughtering shias. 

TBH though, all these suggestions are only applicable to people with more than 2 brain cells, and if the Taliban had been those people, they wouldn't have done all this stuff last time around.

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## khansaheeb

Iran-Afghan trade comes to full halt because of surging violence: Businessman


An Iranian businessman says trade between Afghanistan had stopped amid tensions in the country.




www.presstv.ir





*Iran-Afghan trade comes to full halt because of surging violence: Businessman*
Tuesday, 10 August 2021 3:19 PM *[ Last Update: Tuesday, 10 August 2021 3:29 PM ]*





File photo shows trucks passing through a border crossing on the Iran-Afghan border in eastern Iran.
*An Iranian businessman says trade with Afghanistan has fully stopped amid rising tensions in the neighboring country.*
Hossein Salimi, who chairs the Iran-Afghanistan Joint Chamber of Commerce, said on Tuesday that even Afghan traders had stopped processing Iranian export cargoes destined for Afghanistan because of surging violence in Afghan cities and towns.
Trade with Afghanistan accounts for a considerable part of Iran’s export revenues with monthly purchases by customers in the country normally reaching over a quarter of a billion US dollars.
However, exports started to decline last month after fighting intensified between the Taliban and government forces in various regions. 
Salimi told the semi-official ILNA news agency that air strikes carried out by the United States in recent days had complicated the security situation in Afghanistan and led to full closure of border crossings from Iran.
He said that local middlemen who had been taking risk of delivering Iranian cargoes to Afghan customers had stopped operating because of increased fighting.
The businessman said it would take at least 10 days before the two countries can resume limited trade through their border crossings.



Iran tells citizens to leave Afghan cities amid heightened security risks
Iranian embassy in Kabul tells citizens to immediately leave Afghan cities amid security risks.
Figures by Iran’s customs office IRICA published on Monday showed that exports to Afghanistan had reached $258 million in value terms in the calendar month to July 22.
The figures showed that Iranian monthly exports to Afghanistan had increased by nearly 20% year on year in late July and just before violence began to intensify in the country.
That comes as an IRICA spokesman on Tuesday denied reports about a full closure of border crossings on the Iran-Afghan borders, saying trade was flowing normally between the two countries.


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## PaklovesTurkiye

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426044604986523654
What film is going on in our West


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## kingQamaR

It won’t be smooth sailing for us at times with the now victorious Taliban running Afghanistan 

But let’s all be honest ! They are million times better than ghani USA puppet

We should only ask Taliban for this help only nothing else. Please get rid of our Pakistani terrorists sanctuaries in there.

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## -blitzkrieg-

Patriot forever said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426056146079690754
> We need a brutal purge. Long has enemy being given a free reign to influence the minds of our people.


our information minister and NSA have an extremely pro US past..hopefully those actually handling the affairs keep an eye on the two..


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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426046884339097603

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## Clutch

CIA Mole said:


> only way to defeat taliban might be a drone army/air force that works day and night and has no fear



They have been bombing Afghanistan for over 20 years.... I'm not sure if more of the same will change anything....


“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

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## LeGenD

Titanium100 said:


> You don't undersetand how conventional war or even probability of engagements unfolds. What do you think an airstrike is a hydrogen bomb Airstrikes are not meant to win wars they have very little capacity effect but they can't deter someone like Taliban whos in advatageous terrain..If you ain't putting 300k foot soldiers on the ground there is really not much you can do conventionally and even they will be spitted out in couple years depleted and defeated rinse and repeat


Is this a joke?

Afghan Taliban-led government also folded to USAF + Special Forces + Northern Alliance in a span of 2 months back in 2001. It took Afghan Taliban several years to recover and Pakistan provided cover to this movement as well. Since USA was dependent upon Pakistan to reach Afghanistan, Pakistan was in the position to influence the course of this war and bring both Afghan Taliban and USA to the negotiation table.

What you see now in Afghanistan is mainly due to decision of Biden administration; Biden administration have ditched Ghani administration by committing to "conditional withdrawal." Although Joe Biden is under lot of criticism for this call and development. What he will tell Americans on 9/11? This will haunt Democrats in years to come.

OR maybe Joe Biden have his reasons? Time will tell.

Coming back to the main point, USA never fought in Afghanistan on the scale of let's say Iraq. Afghan Taliban are not really equipped to fight some of the best armies on Earth. Afghan Taliban simply benefited from the circumstances of the conflict and Pak-US relations. Afghanistan being a landlocked country works well for Afghan Taliban.

Americans have steamrolled much stronger opponents than Afghan Taliban.

ANA was not prepared to fight Afghan Taliban however - ANA have too many deficiencies in its composition and how it is led on the ground. ANA never stood a chance against Afghan Taliban without robust air cover - this they do not have now.

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## Clutch

Irfan Baloch said:


> please dont insult yourself and others by denying the savagery of Afghan taliban
> they are one and same in their ideologyand conduct like TTP and Daesh.
> 
> I have lived long enough next to Afghanistan to meet the families of the victims who were massacred for their ethnicities and faith.
> 
> no foreign media or propogenda can replicate the real events and living scarred witnesses. Taliban are brutal savages to all Afghan people this is why they are hated by a substantial Afghan population. just because they are winning against a curropt regime doesnt make them right.
> 
> @Imran Khan
> I am shocked and saddened by the misplaced celebrations by fellow Pakistanis here over the Taliban victories .. whats in store for Pakistan will sadly come soon and these celebrations will haunt us.. because the real benefactors are TTP. who will unleash another reign of terror on Pakistan.
> 
> question is.. why these beloved Afghan Taliban have not attacked TTP or BLA? its because the first ones are their brothers and second ones they don't care.



That is a concern I have too. I am not sure if this Taliban are the same savages of the 1990s... I am hoping they are not. However, I may be too naive to think so.

For now I will wait and see.

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## Titanium100

LeGenD said:


> Is this a joke?
> 
> Afghan Taliban-led government also folded to USAF + Special Forces + Northern Alliance in a span of 2 months back in 2001. It took Afghan Taliban several years to recover and Pakistan provided cover to this movement as well. Since USA was dependent upon Pakistan to reach Afghanistan, Pakistan was in the position to influence the course of this war and bring both Afghan Taliban and USA to the negotiation table.
> 
> What you see now in Afghanistan is mainly due to decision of Biden administration; Biden administration have ditched Ghani administration by committing to "conditional withdrawal." Although Joe Biden is under lot of criticism for this call and development. What he will tell Americans on 9/11? This will haunt Democrats in years to come.
> 
> OR maybe Joe Biden have his reasons? Time will tell.
> 
> Coming back to the main point, USA never fought in Afghanistan on the scale of let's say Iraq. Afghan Taliban are not really equipped to fight some of the best armies on Earth. Afghan Taliban simply benefited from the circumstances of the conflict and Pak-US relations. Afghanistan being a landlocked country works well for Afghan Taliban.
> 
> Americans have steamrolled much stronger opponents than Afghan Taliban.
> 
> ANA was not prepared to fight Afghan Taliban however - ANA have too many deficiencies in its composition and how it is led on the ground. ANA never stood a chance against Afghan Taliban without robust air cover - this they do not have now.
> 
> Now let's get back to topic.



Taliban never folded but it was necessary and tactical for them. There was no way they could withstand the forces that came in who were over-armed compared to them but the solution was to go high-altitiude which they did same textbook against the soviets.. Experience, knowing the landscape and the type of war it requires to dry out the enemy and fatigued..

Mullah Omar said in response to the US in 2001 interview ''You have the watches, We have the time''

They already knew the plan and what they were going to do.. They were not clueless because they had been thru such exact war hence the experience but people are just realizing now that taliban all along knew how to execute the right type of tactical approach


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## LeGenD

islamrules2020 said:


> Taliban will never build a nation, they dont know how and never will, but thatsallgudman cuz all we need is the army of the black flags,
> the power of Taliban will encourage muslims across the world hopefully to challenge the New World Order that is enslaving us through the lie that is the banking system,
> once the pieces are in place, the $$ AKA toilet paper money will collapse and we are free,
> this is for me truly a dream about destroying the global banking System through a global muslim revolt led spiritually by the Taliban but the troops will be all 3 billion muslims,
> just imagine a world free of the banking terror,
> not even the hardcore anti muslim would go against it ,
> and the only power challenging these evil globalists is islam and Taliban


Mashallah... You really need to study Economics and Financial Accounting. Modern countries do not run on "oxygen."

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## ziaulislam

Rafi said:


> If they offered up some young boys as prizes, they would have fought like tigers.
> 
> On a serious point most half decent armies are led by NCO's and junior officers, and the afgoons had neither.


Why???
USA has been there for 20 yrs
The youngest trainee should be in their late 40s now

Because of corruption


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## Abid123

Alhamdulillah!

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## ziaulislam

Titanium100 said:


> Taliban never folded but it was necessary and tactical for them. There was no way they could withstand the forces that came in who were over-armed compared to them but the solution was to go high-altitiude which they did same textbook against the soviets.. Experience, knowing the landscape and the type of war it requires to dry out the enemy and fatigued..
> 
> Mullah Omar said in response to the US in 2001 interview ''You have the watches, We have the time''
> 
> They already knew the plan and what they were going to do.. They were not clueless because they had been thru such exact war hence the experience but people are just realizing now that taliban all along knew how to execute the right type of tactical approach


Bliztkreig!!


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## Bilal.

ziaulislam said:


> Why???
> USA has been there for 20 yrs
> The youngest trainee should be in their late 40s now
> 
> Because of corruption


Because every damn officer in ANA is a General… their new Army Chief is a 35 year old.

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## Titanium100

ziaulislam said:


> Bliztkreig!!


Tactical retreat was the only right choice and that is what happened.. vacating all cities


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## LeGenD

Titanium100 said:


> Taliban never folded but it was necessary and tactical for them. There was no way they could withstand the forces that came in who were over-armed compared to them but the solution was to go high-altitiude which they did same textbook against the soviets.. Experience, knowing the landscape and the type of war it requires to dry out the enemy and fatigued..
> 
> Mullah Omar said in response to the US in 2021 interview ''You have the watches, We have the time''
> 
> They already knew the plan and what they were going to do.. They were not clueless because they had been thru such exact war hence the experience but people are just realizing now that taliban all along knew how to execute the right type of tactical approach


US-led forces routed Afghan Taliban and Al-Qaeda Network from the legendary Tora Bora cave complexes in 2002 as well - Soviets were unable to do this in 1980s.

Afghan Taliban suffered a major defeat in the (2001 - 2002) period. Some fighters fled to Pakistan in the form of refugees; some surrendered but were murdered by unforgiving warlords; some found peace in Afghanistan. Mullah Omar was in Afghanistan as well.

Afghan Taliban began to regroup across Pakistan and Afghanistan in 2004 with support of sympathizing elements among other factors including political motivations. Some strongly felt that they were wronged by those in Kabul and sought revenge. Afghan Taliban became strong again in 2014 after majority of NATO had left.

Americans were much more focused on developments in the Middle East as well - another war was fought on a much bigger scale in Iraq instead. You may understand how much of the resources were diverted towards fixing Iraq instead of Afghanistan.

Let's just say that American politicians were unable to capitalize on victory provided by US-led forces on the ground in Afghanistan, and resorted to 'questionable politics' instead. Its like American politicians had no clue about what to do with Afghanistan.

Why Americans do not question their politicians? Why trillions were spent on wars in Asia? For what?

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## Titanium100

LeGenD said:


> US-led forces routed Afghan Taliban and Al-Qaeda Network from the legendary Tora Bora cave complexes in 2002 as well - Soviets were unable to do this in 1980s.
> 
> Afghan Taliban suffered a major defeat in the (2001 - 2002) period. Some fighters fled to Pakistan in the form of refugees; some surrendered but were murdered by unforgiving warlords; some found peace in Afghanistan. Mullah Omar was in Afghanistan as well.
> 
> Afghan Taliban began to regroup across Pakistan and Afghanistan in 2004 with support of sympathizing elements among other factors including political motivations. Some strongly felt that they were wronged by those in Kabul and sought revenge. Afghan Taliban became strong again in 2014 after majority of NATO had left.
> 
> Americans were much more focused on developments in the Middle East as well - another war was fought on a much bigger scale in Iraq instead. You may understand how much of resources were diverted towards fixing Iraq instead of Afghanistan.



You are spewing an old tired American narrative which was never the case.. routed or regrouped? to far fatched..

Does Mullah Omar sound to you a guy who was planning to directly eat all the firepower the US were gonna throw in the first few intense weeks? Absolutely not and As I already told you they alraedy knew what to expect..

''You have the watches, we have the time'' I remember even some accusing Taliban of fleeing altogether because they didn't understand why they left all the cities but it was tactical the US took empty cities As hilarious as it may seem this the truth.

They vacated everything and the US, Northern Alliance walked into empty cities and towns

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## LeGenD

Titanium100 said:


> You are spewing an old tired American narrative which was never the case.. routed or regrouped? to far fatched..
> 
> Does Mullah Omar sound to you a guy who was planning to directly eat all the firepower the US were gonna throw in the first few intense weeks? Absolutely not and As I already told you they alraedy knew what to expect..
> 
> ''You have the watches, we have the time'' I remember even some accusing Taliban of fleeing altogether because they didn't understand why they left all the cities but it was tactical the US took empty cities As hilarious as it may seem this the truth.
> 
> They vacated everything and the US, Northern Alliance walked into empty cities and towns


I am not spewing any narrative but telling you what I could see happening all along.

There might be tactical withdrawals in some locations but Afghan Taliban lost thousands of fighters in clashes across Afghanistan in the (2001 - 2002) period. The organization as a whole tasted defeat and much of it was routed in the first two years of the war. 

Some hardcore groups continued to fight but they suffered losses after losses as well. Go and read actual battles that are documented in books.

Afghan Taliban resurged [after] withdrawal of much of NATO in 2014.

Mind your language by the way.

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## Titanium100

ziaulislam said:


> Why???
> USA has been there for 20 yrs
> The youngest trainee should be in their late 40s now
> 
> Because of corruption



Amrullah Saleh should be made the military commander..


LeGenD said:


> I am not spewing any narrative but telling you what I could see happening all along.
> 
> There might be tactical withdrawals in some locations but Afghan Taliban lost thousands of fighters in clashes across Afghanistan. Some hardcore groups continued to fight but they suffered losses after losses as well.
> 
> Afghan Taliban resurged after withdrawal of much of NATO in 2014.
> 
> Mind your language.



I don't think you were following that war.. They had minor clashes specifically the northern Alliance but nothing really but sporadic and few. The Northern Alliance, NATO were ghosted and they started to just arrest random civilians because they couldn't really get hold of an actual taliban for media and propaganda reasons so the Northern alliance just started arresting random folks on the highways


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## Iñigo

Saddam Hussein, local subcontractor of the imperial Terror, started to think for himself

Ariel Sharon calls for the destruction of Iraq

Likudnist in Washington "inside The Beltway", decide around 1998 to destroy Iraq and wait and look for the right occasion

18 Wahhabi attack New York

The imperial scriptwriters, taking advantage of the colossal ignorance of the American public, say: -We have been attacked by Mexicans (18 Wahabbi) so we are going to unleash Chaos and Terror in Canada (Irak)

We know this exactly because it was told by General Wesley Clark, who arrived at the Pentagon after 9/11:

-Sir, We are going to attack Iraq
-Why !?
-We don't Know

The Imperial screenwriters realize that their initial plans are too crude even for American audiences, so they begin attacking Afghanistan as the film script demands

Once the Taliban are defeated, the imperial troops do not leave because three of the greatest passions of the Anglo Empire converge there: Persia, Russia and China


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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426125817667522564

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426131735490797569

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## VCheng

Goritoes said:


> Plus I don't think he needs to convince anyone,



And he is not succeeding in convincing anyone, either.





Goritoes said:


> Simple solution is to increase the screening on Airports.



There is no simple solution to the overall problem, which may or may not be air travel based the next time. Such a complex issue needs a mutli-factorial approach with constant vigilance and updates.





Goritoes said:


> As a certain member here always says, Countries should do what's best in their interests



Of course. The question I posed is what does Pakistan see as its national interest at this time, and how does it plan to proceed to achieve them as best as possible in the unfolding scenario.


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## ziaulislam

Titanium100 said:


> Amrullah Saleh should be made the military commander..
> 
> 
> I don't think you were following that war.. They had minor clashes specifically the northern Alliance but nothing really but sporadic and few. The Northern Alliance, NATO were ghosted and they started to just arrest random civilians because they couldn't really get hold of an actual taliban for media and propaganda reasons so the Northern alliance just started arresting random folks on the highways

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## zartosht

NATO/US humiliation... 20 years they poured blood and treasure into this..... something tells me hollywood wont make a movie about this......

its laughable... nobody could have predicted how pathetic the NATO puppet regime was going to be.... Afghan fatemiyoun trained by Iran fought 100x times better in a distant country, then the garbage "army" the US trained for 20 damn years...

its laughably sad...

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## Dalit

zartosht said:


> NATO/US humiliation... 20 years they poured blood and treasure into this..... something tells me hollywood wont make a movie about this......
> 
> its laughable... nobody could have predicted how pathetic the NATO puppet regime was going to be.... Afghan fatemiyoun trained by Iran fought 100x times better in a distant country, then the garbage "army" the US trained for 20 damn years...
> 
> its laughably sad...



They made movies about Vietnam. The humiliating loss in Afghanistan is very painful for US/NATO. They had it all planned. They were going to go after Pakistan, China, Russia and Iran. The American generals really thought of Afghanistan as their island. How deceptive dreams can be.


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## Adecypher

Well after watching countless news reports about Taliban gains this one sums up pretty well … in this video the news correspondent states at 3:10 mins that the Taliban commander have said “*IF WE DIE ITS VICTORY IF WE WIN ITS VICTORY - WELL GOOD LUCK TRY TO FIGHT THAT …*”

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## Dalit

Adecypher said:


> Well after watching countless news reports about Taliban gains this one sums up pretty well … in this video the new correspondent states at 3:10 mins that the Taliban commander have said “*IF WE DIE ITS VICTORY IF WE WIN ITS VICTORY - WELL GOOD LUCK TRY TO FIGHT THAT …*”



Compare that spirit with a bacha baaz commie trained by India, US and NATO. Day and night difference.


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## Adecypher

Dalit said:


> They made movies about Vietnam. The humiliating loss in Afghanistan is very painful for US/NATO. They had it all planned. They were going to go after Pakistan, China, Russia and Iran. The American generals really thought of Afghanistan as their island. How deceptive dreams can be.


But as I mentioned to @Titanium100 above…ke gorey ki fitrat ko samjho yeh apni tazleel kabhi bhi bardaasht nahi karta … Allah na karey lakin apni haar ka badla yeh log masoom logon ki jaan leker karengey agar Afghanistan ko air cover na milla… humesha ki tarhan bataya ye jayey ga ke is target pe dehshat gard the… or bomb gira diya jayega…is baat se mein darta hon…


Dalit said:


> Compare that spririt with a bacha baaz commie trained by India, US and NATO. Day and night difference.


Well to be honest with you i have heard it is an ALL around thingy in Afghanistan….

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## ARMalik

sha ah said:


> Regardless the Taliban never would have been able to do this without help from Pakistan. Their leadership is in Pakistan. They took sanctuary in Pakistan. Their manpower, supplies, weapons. You think it comes from thin air ? They started off with 50,000 militants. You think they eat dust ? or work a part time job ? LOL



There are some very deluded and ignorant people on this forum mate who think some 'Divine Spirit' is helping Taliban. These people don't know the ABC of such wars. Without continuous and systematic supply lines, and without a war strategy, Taliban cannot even conquer their own back sides.  So yes, Taliban are an off shoot of Pakistan Military. There I said the unspeakable on this forum -- Let's see how some of these people will jump up and down now.


Xone said:


> Pakistan is neutral in this fight, without any favorites



The best Joke of 2021. Well done.


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## Itachi

Imran Khan said:


> please do not insult islam to label on these terrorist as huq . shame on you . quraan is far greater then these unch of terrorists . . ask any hazara that mazar e sharif masscare was fake and he will skin you there . just try .



That incident is over 20 years old. Numerous more atrocities have been committed since then. You should take a look at your own wiki page which you posted above.

And btw, they aren't terrorists. The US State Department has never called them terrorists. The Taliban are also not on any terror watchlist. Only the media calls them terrorists and recently, they too have started calling them rebels, insurgents etc.

You're behind your time. You should update your facts.


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## Dalit

ARMalik said:


> There are some very deluded and ignorant people on this forum mate who think some 'Divine Spirit' is helping Taliban. These people don't know the ABC of such wars. Without continuous and systematic supply lines, and without a war strategy, Taliban cannot even conquer their own back sides.  So yes, Taliban are an off shoot of Pakistan Military. There I said the unspeakable on this forum -- Let's see how some of these people will jump up and down now.
> 
> 
> The best Joke of 2021. Well done.



Heck we proudly own the Taliban. They learnt from the best.

If US/NATO and India can boast about supporting pedo warlords why should we be in denial?

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## FuturePAF

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426125817667522564



USAF Probably coming soon to knock out these birds. But if the last couple of weeks have proven anything, the Talibs are gonna take their chances; Fortune Favors The Bold.


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## Meengla

MH.Yang said:


> China is a trading country. Trade needs peace. We hope for peace. We will not be foolish enough to undermine the peace process in Afghanistan.



Correct. Actually, none of Afghanistan's neighbors want the strife. India--a non-neighbor--wants the strife.

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## Beast

Its another South Vietnam

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## Goritoes

VCheng said:


> There is no simple solution to the overall problem, which may or may not be air travel based the next time. Such a complex issue needs a mutli-factorial approach with constant vigilance and updates.



Hey sure why not, but invading and bombing a dirt Poor country is no solution, I hope our dear America has learned its lesson.

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## ARMalik

Goritoes said:


> Hey sure why not, but invading and bombing a dirt Poor country is no solution, I hope our dear America has learned its lesson.



Yes they have learnt, and that is why the US is pulling out after getting a very good deal.


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## xyx007

Imran Khan said:


> what was your age when Mazar-i-Sharif Anti-Hazara massacre were happen ? its still in memory of every hazara . 1998 is not too far . i dont want a link to remember it .
> 
> say him saint OBL you kaffir


My memory goes back to listening to mujaheeden's on-the-ground battles in the soviet -Charlie war. You should have a real idea of what you are talking about. Ground realities are a total departure from what you talk about.
Prior to the intra-Afghan peace talks, the Taliban named an ethnic Hazara Shia as the shadow district chief. The hardline Sunni Taliban had been previously accused of persecuting the minority group during its tenure in power, so your claim becomes even more absurd.
Finally, we must remember that OBL was a guest on Afghan soil. It is important for you to know Afghan tradition. If you know what Omar told Americans, then you know he was ready to surrender OBL if they could provide any evidence of OBL's involvement in 911 However, according to American think tanks, the attack on Afghanistan could have been more beneficial to the Americans at that time than proving their point.

Watch this video and learn how Muharram is practised by Shia under their control


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## VCheng

Goritoes said:


> I hope our dear America has learned its lesson.




And just what lesson(s) do you think might (or should) be learned here, and not just for USA?


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## Goritoes

VCheng said:


> And just what lesson(s) do you think might (or should) be learned here, and not just for USA?



Lesson 1: Don't Invade Afghanistan
Lesson 2: Listen to Allies (Pakistan)
Lesson 3: Don't think that Karma won't bite you (USSR)
Lesson 4: Don't try nation building
Lesson 5: Don't impose your way of governance on others
Lesson 6: Don't Impose Rapists and Warlords on Civilian population
Lesson 7: Military solution is not going to work always
Lesson 8: Try not to put boots on ground
Lesson 9: Don't carpet bomb innocent Civilians 
Lesson 10: Don't Invade other Poor and weak countries, or involved in Civil wars.

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## VCheng

Goritoes said:


> Lesson 1: Don't Invade Afghanistan
> Lesson 2: Listen to Allies (Pakistan)
> Lesson 3: Don't think that Karma won't bite you (USSR)
> Lesson 4: Don't try nation building
> Lesson 5: Don't impose your way of governance on others
> Lesson 6: Don't Impose Rapists and Warlords on Civilian population
> Lesson 7: Military solution is not going to work always
> Lesson 8: Try not to put boots on ground
> Lesson 9: Don't carpet bomb innocent Civilians
> Lesson 10: Don't Invade other Poor and weak countries, or involved in Civil wars.



Those "lessons" seem to be applicable to children's story books, and not international geopolitics.


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## Goritoes

VCheng said:


> Those "lessons" seem to be applicable to children's story books, and not international geopolitics.



You might be right, but when Children go to Afghanistan with troops they later find their soldiers dead, and later they have run in the middle of the night, so why fight wars which they can't win? my lessons are childish but could've saved a lot of American lives.


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## VCheng

Goritoes said:


> You might be right, but when Children go to Afghanistan with troops they later find their soldiers dead, and later they have run in the middle of the night, so why fight wars which they can't win? my lessons are childish but could've saved a lot of American lives.




War is simply pursuit of national interests by other means to implement policy. It is just a tool to be used when needed, that is all. Winning and losing is another childish concept that has no meaning in international geopolitics.


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## LeGenD

Same response: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/afgh...nd-interim-setup-rumored.720161/post-13281725


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## Goritoes

VCheng said:


> War is simply pursuit of national interests by other means to implement policy. It is just a tool to be used when needed, that is all. Winning and losing is another childish concept that has no meaning in international geopolitics.



But innocent people die when countries selfishly try to pursuit their national interests and use force. If America was following its national interests in Afghanistan even after 2011, than America got some serious problems.


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## VCheng

Goritoes said:


> But innocent people die when countries selfishly try to pursuit their national interests and use force. If America was following its national interests in Afghanistan even after 2011, than America got some serious problems.



Innocent people die in wars, whether one believes they are noble or ignoble. The pursuit of national interests is perpetual and relentless, by all countries, equally. What is your point?


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## Goritoes

VCheng said:


> Innocent people die in wars, whether one believes they are noble or ignoble. The pursuit of national interests is perpetual and relentless, by all countries, equally. What is your point?



My point is America should now learn its lesson, at least...


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## TheDarkKnight

VCheng said:


> Those "lessons" seem to be applicable to children's story books, and not international geopolitics.


The lesson of not ever participating in a nation building adventure using military force and imported puppets has been well learned.
Here in President’s own words:
“*I’m clear on my answer: I will not repeat the mistakes we’ve made in the past* — *the mistake of staying and fighting indefinitely in a conflict that is not in the national interest of the United States*, of doubling down on a civil war in a foreign country, of attempting to remake a country through the endless military deployments of U.S. forces.”


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## VCheng

Goritoes said:


> My point is America should now learn its lesson, at least...



Should, okay. Except that international geopolitics goes by its own rules, and not by childrens' storybooks.



TheDarkKnight said:


> The lesson of not ever participating in a nation building adventure using military force and imported puppets has been well learned.
> Here in President’s own words:
> “*I’m clear on my answer: I will not repeat the mistakes we’ve made in the past* — *the mistake of staying and fighting indefinitely in a conflict that is not in the national interest of the United States*, of doubling down on a civil war in a foreign country, of attempting to remake a country through the endless military deployments of U.S. forces.”



So we will not repeat the mistakes of the past - we will just come up with new ones, as long as national interests are served. Makes sense!


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## Beidou2020

Great to see the total humiliation of the repulsive and evil empire.


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## TheDarkKnight

VCheng said:


> So we will not repeat the mistakes of the past - we will just come up with new ones, as long as national interests are served. Makes sense!


New ones as new mistakes? I dont think you ever set out to make mistakes to begin with, not intentionally at least. As long as a mistake, such as this one which costed 1.5 tr, 20 years of conflict and ended with an enemy takeover, is not repeated then yes the lesson has been learned for sure. But if after all of this we still think it was all worth it and should be repeated again - then I guess we haven’t learnt anything at all. Biden speech and the communication from US govt officials show that overall the 20 years spent in nation building and controlling a civil war with Military force was a blunder that shouldn’t ever be repeated, and in future the focus is solely going to be counter terrorisim using precise military means, intelligence, diplomacy, allies etc.


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## VCheng

TheDarkKnight said:


> New ones as new mistakes? I dont think you ever set out to make mistakes to begin with, not intentionally at least. As long as a mistake, such as this one which costed 1.5 tr, 20 years of conflict and ended with an enemy takeover, is not repeated then yes the lesson has been learned for sure. But if after all of this we still think it was all worth it and should be repeated again - then I guess we haven’t learnt anything at all. Biden speech and the communication from US govt officials show that overall the 20 years spent in nation building and controlling a civil war with Military force was a blunder that shouldn’t ever be repeated, and in future the focus is solely going to be counter terrorisim using precise military means, intelligence, diplomacy, allies etc.



Like this?



https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2021-08-19/poll-most-americans-think-the-war-in-afghanistan-was-not-worth-fighting




*Poll: Most Americans Think the War in Afghanistan was 'Not Worth Fighting'*
After 20 years in the country, most Americans say the war in Afghanistan was not worth fighting, citing domestic extremism as more concerning than foreign.


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## TheDarkKnight

VCheng said:


> Like this?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2021-08-19/poll-most-americans-think-the-war-in-afghanistan-was-not-worth-fighting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Poll: Most Americans Think the War in Afghanistan was 'Not Worth Fighting'*
> After 20 years in the country, most Americans say the war in Afghanistan was not worth fighting, citing domestic extremism as more concerning than foreign.


The way it was fought wasn’t worth it. You dont spend 1.5 trillion and 20 years on a single group. Handling of ISIS was much better and effective and without the mess we see in which civilians are falling off from cargo airplanes (I know its not the fault of the pilots, but visuals are very negative no matter what explanation you put out.)

Now at the end if we at least got a reformed Taliban who won’t repeat their blunders as well (harboring AQ types and other HR issues) - maybe a tiny bit more worthwhile now.


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## VCheng

TheDarkKnight said:


> *The way it was fought wasn’t worth it. *You dont spend 1.5 trillion and 20 years on a single group. Handling of ISIS was much better and effective and without the mess we see in which civilians are falling off from cargo airplanes (I know its not the fault of the pilots, but visuals are very negative no matter what explanation you put out.)
> 
> Now at the end if we at least got a reformed Taliban who won’t repeat their blunders as well (harboring AQ types and other HR issues) - maybe a tiny bit more worthwhile now.



So, in your view, what was the way it should have been fought?


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## TheDarkKnight

VCheng said:


> So, in your view, what was the way it should have been fought?


I did mention the handling of ISIS by US as a success. It was extremely effective and result oriented. Use of special ops and intelligence to degrade them and use strong regional allies to do the ground work as that is also in their national interest (this alignment of interest is where diplomacy takes lead). It made US even set differences aside and work with known enemies such as Iran. In Afghanistan case maybe emotions got hold of people due to 9/11.


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## VCheng

TheDarkKnight said:


> I did mention the handling of ISIS by US as a success. It was extremely effective and result oriented. Use of special ops and intelligence to degrade them and use *strong regional allies* to do the ground work as that is also in their national interest (this alignment of interest is where diplomacy takes lead). It made US even set differences aside and work with known enemies such as Iran. In Afghanistan case maybe emotions got hold of people due to 9/11.



And which "strong regional allies" would have done this ground work?


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## python-000

xyx007 said:


> My memory goes back to listening to mujaheeden's on-the-ground battles in the soviet -Charlie war. You should have a real idea of what you are talking about. Ground realities are a total departure from what you talk about.
> Prior to the intra-Afghan peace talks, the Taliban named an ethnic Hazara Shia as the shadow district chief. The hardline Sunni Taliban had been previously accused of persecuting the minority group during its tenure in power, so your claim becomes even more absurd.
> Finally, we must remember that OBL was a guest on Afghan soil. It is important for you to know Afghan tradition. If you know what Omar told Americans, then you know he was ready to surrender OBL if they could provide any evidence of OBL's involvement in 911 However, according to American think tanks, the attack on Afghanistan could have been more beneficial to the Americans at that time than proving their point.
> 
> Watch this video and learn how Muharram is practised by Shia under their control


One thing that Afghan Taliban can do they can sent them back to Iran peacefully under there protection...


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## TheDarkKnight

VCheng said:


> And which "strong regional allies" would have done this ground work?


I wont say that every thing is exactly replicable in Afghan case. But for countering AQ and ISIS Iran and Pakistan would definitely be in. I would even go as a far as suggesting to work with Taliban a lot earlier than now - as we can see at least against ISIS, Taliban have been cooperating. But once US got bogged down in nation building and trying to create a National army and a democracy in a country like Afghanistan using military - that is where we start seeing a misalignment of interest with regional countries and getting stuck in a perpetual war.


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## VCheng

TheDarkKnight said:


> But for countering AQ and ISIS Iran and Pakistan would definitely be in.



Yes, that would be the perfectly logical choice.

Except that it has been a huge pity that the total loss of mutual trust made that impossible, specially the location of OBL's hideout and the treatment meted out to Dr. Afridi. Both USA and Pakistan need to chart out new directions now.


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## TheDarkKnight

VCheng said:


> Yes, that would be the perfectly logical choice.
> 
> *Except that it has been a huge pity that the total loss of mutual trust made that impossible, specially the location of OBL's hideout and the treatment meted out to Dr. Afridi. *Both USA and Pakistan need to chart out new directions now.


First neither Pakistan nor Iran has ever been even accused of, let alone there being an existence of proof, for harboring or helping AQ and/or ISIS. The mistrust you point to is only because of diverging interests regarding Afghan Taliban and TTP -those issues are well known so no need to repeat. So the mistrust was never about OBL location, you wont find any critical statement from US officials regarding OBL being found in Pakistan, as a matter of fact I think Hillary and Obama admin bailed Pakistan out on this and cleared Pakistani state institutions of these accusations (some people may believe in that Seymour Herch story and ex ISI chief Durrani’s fiction - thats all crap) . Indians how ever have been shouting that Pakistan and ISI are even responsible for 9/11 and harbored OBL.

Now had US not even bothered with nation building and to develop a new regime from scratch, in this alternate world:

1) US would have select few bases in Afghanistan to only hunt AQ and global terrorists, until a reasonable compromise reaches with Taliban

2) US would still have bases and support in Pakistan

3) The whole mistrust issue or OBL, Afridi issue wouldn’t happen as badly.

4) A lot less money spent and less lives lost on all sides.

Down side of course is that Taliban would be in power or in control, but they are now anyway.

Dr. Afridi is being treated how any citizen accused spying and running a fake vaccination campaign for a foreign country would be treated. But I think IK has already hinted to a reasonable compromise on this anyway.


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## VCheng

TheDarkKnight said:


> you wont find any critical statement from US officials regarding OBL being found in Pakistan



And yet I know the damage has been done at all levels irreversibly, agree with the causes I have stated, or not.



TheDarkKnight said:


> But I think IK has already hinted to a reasonable compromise on this anyway.



I can also tell you that it is too late for that now.



Now both countries have to move on, as always, wherever their respective national interests take them. Next innings begin shortly.


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## Goritoes

VCheng said:


> Should, okay. Except that international geopolitics goes by its own rules, and not by childrens' storybooks.



You do realize that Geopolitics and wrong decision can cost lives, ask those families who lost their young sons in this stupid war in Afghanistan and many others which can and should be avoided?


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## TheDarkKnight

VCheng said:


> And yet I know the damage has been done at all levels irreversibly, agree with the causes I have stated, or not.


I disagree. The damage is mainly in public relations space, where you might see public opinion of Pakistan taking a hit (already battered), but I have yet to hear any official blaming or holding Pakistani state responsible for OBL hiding in a basement in Pakistan. One just need to look at so many wanted terrorists and drug cartel heads who are/have remained at large despite US resources.



VCheng said:


> Now both countries have to move on, as always, wherever their respective national interests take them. Next innings begin shortly.


Of course, with US forces not in Afghanistan anymore and Taliban in power, there is not going to be any complaints about any alleged Taliban sanctuaries in Pakistan anymore. If we can ride through this difficult phase of forming an inclusive govt with acceptable HR metrics in Afghanistan, then there are so many venues of cooperation. Pakistan with its cultural and other links with Taliban can help them nudge towards a moderate approach with time - time is the key here as it means showing patience and giving space to the new govt in Afghanistan. Also CPEC and connectivity projects in Pakistan dont have to be China dominated, but they need to be countered with counter economic proposals, and not just threats and lectures about China.

On the other had the challenge will be to balance Indian whining for any increased cooperation with Pakistan - one thing has to be really understood here, India’s track record as a reliable and worthy ally is completely unknown. Pakistan may not be able to do much, but whatever is expected or agreed upon and once Pakistani interest are aligned, the alliance delivers on it - case to look at is anti Soviet alliance, and even help provided during WOT. Will India take a stand against rising China like Pakistan did against Soviets? My two cents opinion is that US may just be betting at the wrong horse just like ANA, that nation is not meant for it. They are good on economic front and that is it.


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## VCheng

Goritoes said:


> You do realize that Geopolitics and wrong decision can cost lives, ask those families who lost their young sons in this stupid war in Afghanistan and many others which can and should be avoided?



And your point is?



TheDarkKnight said:


> I disagree. The damage is mainly in public relations space, where you might see public opinion of Pakistan taking a hit (already battered), but I have yet to hear any official blaming or holding Pakistani state responsible for OBL hiding in a basement in Pakistan. One just need to look at so many wanted terrorists and drug cartel heads who are/have remained at large despite US resources.



Let us agree to disagree then. The coming events will show what is going on.


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## Goritoes

VCheng said:


> And your point is?



Already made it in my previous posts.


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