# Bhensa has been controlled.



## Patriots

@Horus 

You are doing great work to exposing so-called liberal scumbags ... They are actually cancer in our society along with religious extreemist elements ... But work is not completed ... "The Naked Truth" & "Humkalam" are roaming freely and spitting their venom ..........

Reactions: Like Like:
48


----------



## Oracle



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EAK

Yes @Horus ..Good work indeed.. following your efforts from sometime now.. You really put some fireworks in 5th columns pants..Thumbs up

Reactions: Like Like:
15


----------



## Mentee

Stag112 said:


> They said that guy was a great constitutionalist. What does that mean?



Follow the constitution in its essence, that's what he stood for !

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Spring Onion

Patriots said:


> [. "The Naked Truth" & "Humkalam" are roaming freely and spitting their venom ..........



who are running these two? FB pages or some blogs?


----------



## Patriots

Spring Onion said:


> who are running these two? FB pages or some blogs?




https://www.facebook.com/pg/TheNangaTruth/about/?ref=page_internal
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Pk.Humkalami/about/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Respect4Respect01

These people are real terrorists, because words hurt more than weapons, and these people have been hurting feelings of millions of Muslims without any reason.

Reactions: Like Like:

7


----------



## pak-marine

Patriots said:


> @Horus
> 
> You are doing great work to exposing so-called liberal scumbags ... They are actually cancer in our society along with religious extreemist elements ... But work is not completed ... "The Naked Truth" & "Humkalam" are roaming freely and spitting their venom ..........


Excellent another milestone achieved .. keep
It up

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mentee

Stag112 said:


> So he would have celebrated disappearances IF he was a true constitutionalist?



Ask him why me ? He could better answer your query . As for the disappearances, none has proven to be true ---

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Patriots

pak-marine said:


> Excellent another milestone achieved .. keep
> It up




Atheists should not be allowed to spread their bull$hit everywhere in our Muslim society ..........

Reactions: Like Like:
23


----------



## pak-marine

Patriots said:


> Atheists should not be allowed to spread their bull$hit everywhere in our Muslim society ..........


Well done now lets see how far this takes this country

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terry5

who is bhensa ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zibago

pak-marine said:


> Well done now lets see how far this takes this country


No space In this country for those who insult its creation 
I interacted with bhensa, s admin I think instead of killing him hindsight they should jail him for life or issue blackwarrants so others think 30 times before repeating what they did

Reactions: Like Like:
13


----------



## terry5

Patriots said:


> Atheists should not be allowed to spread their bull$hit everywhere in our Muslim society ..........



aah kay .thanks


----------



## Khafee

terry5 said:


> who is bhensa ?



A nobody, who talks form his behind.



pak-marine said:


> Well done now lets see how far this takes this country


Who is forcing you to live in Pakistan?

Reactions: Like Like:
29


----------



## pak-marine

Zibago said:


> No space In this country for those who insult its creation
> I interacted with bhensa, s admin I think instead of killing him hindsight they should jail him for life or issue blackwarrants so others think 30 times before repeating what they did


cant jail him as its almost impossible to try on Facebook posts .. who was the real bhensa any way ?



Khafee said:


> Who is forcing you to live in Pakistan?


We are just powerless people Lets see who Dictates who can live in Pakistan and who cant ..


----------



## Zibago

pak-marine said:


> cant jail him as its almost impossible to try on Facebook posts .. who was the real bhensa any way ?


Yes it is actually the cyber crime law which I resisted makes it legal to arrest you over fb posts

Real bhensa was an anti Pakistan anti Islam page where liberalism meant making fun of Pakistan, its creators, posting offensive images on milli naghmays, putting tilawat sound on item songs videos, posting blasphemous content in urdu and criticising army and praising mqm, pmln, anp for no reason other than hate
They were just a tarek fath type groupi am glad its gone

Reactions: Like Like:
28


----------



## Tipu7

There is need of proper Mutual understanding + Tolerance among us.

We need to get rid of extremists edges of our ''thinkers''............

I call them Religious terrorists & Secular terrorists.

Both are exact opposite but are extreme in their ways. One use gun, other use pen to bring down Fassad on common people ..............

I feel no sorry for these bloggers even if they rot away in some random place as missing person, just like I feel same for TTP butchers .........

Reactions: Like Like:
16


----------



## Valar Dohaeris

Thank you so much @Horus . Keep it up. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

We should clean all the mess in our society, be it righist extremist or leftis extremist.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## pak-marine

Zibago said:


> Yes it is actually the cyber crime law which I resisted makes it legal to arrest you over fb posts
> 
> Real bhensa was an anti Pakistan anti Islam page where liberalism meant making fun of Pakistan, its creators, posting offensive images on milli naghmays, putting tilawat sound on item songs videos, posting blasphemous content in urdu and criticising army and praising mqm, pmln, anp for no reason other than hate
> They were just a tarek fath type groupi am glad its gone


yeah i read about him ... he is declared wajid ul anything who was it.. any one of the few bloggers who were picked up ?


----------



## Valar Dohaeris

pak-marine said:


> yeah i read about him ... he is declared wajid ul anything who was it.. any one of the few bloggers who were picked up ?


Yeah, Waqas Goraya and Asim Saeed were the people behind these pages. 

Waqas goraya was the admin of Bhensa and Asim Saeed that of Angra.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zibago

pak-marine said:


> yeah i read about him ... he is declared wajid ul anything who was it.. any one of the few bloggers who were picked up ?


I interacted with him if someone hates Pakistan so much they have no right to live her freely
Yep rumors are the abducted fellows are the admins if they are not they should be released but if they are they should not be freed for life

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Spring Onion

Patriots said:


> Atheists should not be allowed to spread their bull$hit everywhere in our Muslim society ..........


what atheists believe is their right but abusing and insulting and making fun of Islam is Not their right. The problem with these atheists is that they think abusing others' faith is atheism which in fact shows that they are confused about their own ideology.

Reactions: Like Like:
28


----------



## Khafee

Spring Onion said:


> what atheists believe is their right but abusing and insulting and making fun of Islam is Not their right. The problem with these atheists is that they think abusing others' faith is atheism which in fact shows that they are confused about their own ideology.


Exactly, does not entitle them to hate speech.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Spring Onion

Khafee said:


> Exactly, does not entitle them to hate speech.


even hate speech is fine somewhat but the kind of stuff such pages spread in fact inciting violence leading to killings.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Ahmer Rana

Thumbs up for you @Horus just keep the good work up

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## friendly_troll96

Patriots said:


> @Horus
> 
> You are doing great work to exposing so-called liberal scumbags ... They are actually cancer in our society along with religious extreemist elements ... But work is not completed ... "The Naked Truth" & "Humkalam" are roaming freely and spitting their venom ..........


They're the wild boar in the guise of bhensa.
-
My Salute to @Horus .

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Mrc

I salute pdf for their moral and ethical stand... i am for upholding the law... but very difficult to tolerate blasphemy

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## waleed3601

Patriots said:


> @Horus
> 
> You are doing great work to exposing so-called liberal scumbags ... *They are actually cancer in our society along with religious extreemist elements* ... But work is not completed ... "The Naked Truth" & "Humkalam" are roaming freely and spitting their venom ..........


remind me again how many people liberals have killed because they don't agree with their views?
if you can't take rational criticism, then i've got to say you lot have one bloated ego. hurt by mere words, not even bullets.
no place for free thinkers these days. not in al bakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## xyxmt

Qayamat se pehly har ghar me shaitan hoga....
face book and twitter has arrived, may God save you all from this Shaitan.
I can proudly say I have been safe from it so far.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Skyliner

Guys there is still confusion if it was IB or MI or govt was on the same page too? A hint will do too


----------



## Spring Onion

waleed3601 said:


> remind me again how many people liberals have killed because they don't agree with their views?
> if you can't take rational criticism, then i've got to say you lot have one bloated ego. hurt by mere words, not even bullets.
> no place for free thinkers these days. not in al bakistan.


mr. dubbing songs on tilawat is free thinking in your opinion?

Reactions: Like Like:
14


----------



## Valar Dohaeris

Skyliner said:


> Guys there is still confusion if it was IB or MI or govt was on the same page too? A hint will do too


MI is not for this purpose. Most probably IB or FIA. And when we talk about IB or FIA, we can assume that it is on the direction of Ch. Nisar.


----------



## TheDarkKnight

waleed3601 said:


> remind me again how many people liberals have killed because they don't agree with their views?
> if you can't take rational criticism, then i've got to say you lot have one bloated ego. hurt by mere words, not even bullets.
> no place for free thinkers these days. not in al bakistan.


The number of people killed by PPP and MQM in Karachi?


----------



## Farah Sohail

Skyliner said:


> Guys there is still confusion if it was IB or MI or govt was on the same page too? A hint will do too



Dont know..but whichever agency did it.. Thumbs up and keep up the good work.. So proud of those...who did it

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## waleed3601

TheDarkKnight said:


> The number of people killed by PPP and MQM in Karachi?


must say its news to me that mqm and ppp killed people because they didn't bow down to the glorious ideology of secular liberalism lol. nice try kiddo, but think twice before you type. ppp and mqm kill because they're mafias. they dont have any ideological convictions, only a drive for money and power. mullahs do too, but they sell their mindset and ideas to get it.
yet for the sake of comparison even if we do consider your argument passable, the number of people killed by ppp and mqm combined still doesn't stand anywhere near how many people religious extremists kill.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Farah Sohail

Valar Dohaeris said:


> MI is not for this purpose. Most probably IB or FIA. And when we talk about IB or FIA, we can assume that it is on the direction of Ch. Nisar.



Yes..thankGod Ch Nisar is one guy in PML N who is not afraid of those pseudo liberals.... Although Nawaz .sharif is desperately tying to appease pseudo liberals and trying extremely hard to make Pak ultra secular now..taken a 180 turn from his earlier tenures, where he was a right winger supposedly..but thankGod Ch Nisar is not one of those.. Only guy who I have little bit respect for, in PML N..and for the same reason, pseudo liberals are always against Ch NIsar

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Skyliner

Valar Dohaeris said:


> MI is not for this purpose. Most probably IB or FIA. And when we talk about IB or FIA, we can assume that it is on the direction of Ch. Nisar.


Even if MI did it with having govt on the same page that is good too, but if it is IB or FIA it is even better and justified. But I don't like the way pmln keep every matter hidden be brave share it and have a open support, at least clarify it after the work being done.


Farah Sohail said:


> Dont know..but whichever agency did it.. Thumbs up and keep up the good work.. So proud of those...who did it

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Valar Dohaeris

Farah Sohail said:


> Yes..thankGod Ch Nisar is one guy in PML N who is not afraid of those pseudo liberals.... Although Nawaz .sharif is desperately tying to appease pseudo liberals and trying extremely hard to make Pak ultra secular now..taken a 180 turn from his earlier tenures, where he was a right winger supposedly..but thankGod Ch Nisar is not one of those.. Only guy who I have little bit respect for, in PML N..and for the same reason, pseudo liberals are always against Ch NIsar


Ch. Nisar is one of my favorite politician. He is definitely a patriotic person and right wing politician. He also took a strong stance against NGOs few months ago. He has also done a lot to improve NADRA and passport which is very helpful for common population. I am happy that Pakistan is out of those dark ages of PPP (i call them PFP).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Farah Sohail

Valar Dohaeris said:


> Yeah, Waqas Goraya and Asim Saeed were the people behind these pages.
> 
> Waqas goraya was the admin of Bhensa and Asim Saeed that of Angra.



I think Salman Haider was admin of bhensa group too?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Valar Dohaeris

Skyliner said:


> Even if MI did it with having govt on the same page that is good too, but if it is IB or FIA it is even better and justified. But I don't like the way pmln keep every matter hidden be brave share it and have a open support, at least clarify it after the work being done.


It is not good if MI does this. State machinery must be streamline and specialize in its objective. Still, I know there are better people who are deciding what to do so, I respect every decision in favor of my beloved country. As far as PMLN is concerned, I think they are too much afraid of media because some of their members are also corrupt, so they play like this because they know they cant fight media.


----------



## Farah Sohail

Valar Dohaeris said:


> Ch. Nisar is one of my favorite politician. He is definitely a patriotic person and right wing politician. He also took a strong stance against NGOs few months ago. He has also done a lot to improve NADRA and passport which is very helpful for common population. I am happy that Pakistan is out of those dark ages of PPP (i call them PFP).



PML N isnt any better..infact worse in some angles...but i dont count Ch Nisar in those... I just wish Ch Nisar could stand up more to Nawaz Sharif...esp in dawn leaks case..i wish he had..... But anyways... Still he is the only guy in PML N, who i have some respect for... Infact if he was to make another party, i would vote for him....and his best part is, unlike Nawaz sharif, he isnt pro India too... Loved what he did to Indian interior minister, at SAARC conf in Pak... So yea, he is patriotic


----------



## Valar Dohaeris

Farah Sohail said:


> I think Salman Haider was admin of bhensa group too?


I am not sure about Salman Haider. Never heard about him. My personal perception is that he was from Bol Platoon. Bhensa was page of Waqas goaraya. Also IMO, the contents of bhensa suggest that it was run by a single person (Might sound funny).


----------



## Farah Sohail

Valar Dohaeris said:


> I am not sure about Salman Haider. Never heard about him. My personal perception is that he was from *Bol Platoon*. Bhensa was page of Waqas goaraya. Also IMO, the contents of bhensa suggest that it was run by a single person (Might sound funny).



@bold... What??


----------



## Valar Dohaeris

Farah Sohail said:


> PML N isnt any better..infact worse in some angles...but i dont count Ch Nisar in those... I just wish Ch Nisar could stand up more to Nawaz Sharif...esp in dawn leaks case..i wish he had..... But anyways... Still he is the only guy in PML N, who i have some respect for... Infact if he was to make another party, i would vote for him....and his best part is, unlike Nawaz sharif, he isnt pro India too... Loved what he did to Indian interior minister, at SAARC conf in Pak... So yea, he is patriotic


I am not PMLN supporter and I hate their corruption but it is a reality that our country is much much better state than it was during PPP era. Almost every aspect has taken right direction. As far as Ch Nisar is concerned, he is a great person but he cant fight alone.



Farah Sohail said:


> @bold... What??


It is another page which was taken down when these pages were being blocked.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Farah Sohail

Valar Dohaeris said:


> I am not PMLN supporter and I hate their corruption but it is a reality that our country is much much better state than it was during PPP era. Almost every aspect has taken right direction. As far as Ch Nisar is concerned, he is a great person but he cant fight alone.
> .



Hate whole PML N except Ch Nisar..and ofcourse hate PPP, MQM! ANP, JUI, all



Valar Dohaeris said:


> It is another page which was taken down when these pages were being blocked.



Salute to the person, or agency whoever took these decisions... Hats off...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Valar Dohaeris

Farah Sohail said:


> Salute to the person, or agency whoever took these decisions... Hats off...


Indeed. Thankful to our state and those people who took this action.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Farah Sohail

Valar Dohaeris said:


> Indeed. Thankful to our state and those people who took this action.



Shows tht...atleast there is some honor left in our ppl still....

But why isnt anyone owning it up? I think Ch Nisar in senate said..tht no agency took those so called "activists"


----------



## VCheng

terry5 said:


> who is bhensa ?



As of now, just another "disappeared" person.

Civil society is waiting for the due process that applies to be made public per the law, but not holding its breath.


----------



## Farah Sohail

Valar Dohaeris said:


> Indeed. Thankful to our state and those people who took this action.



Since no one has owned it yet... Is there a chance..tht agencies have not picked them up..and its some other phadda? Maybe their handlers took them out?


----------



## Musafir117

Patriots said:


> @Horus
> 
> You are doing great work to exposing so-called liberal scumbags ... They are actually cancer in our society along with religious extreemist elements ... But work is not completed ... "The Naked Truth" & "Humkalam" are roaming freely and spitting their venom ..........


You deserve couple of +ive for this thread bro.


----------



## friendly_troll96

0:02 "phd karnay k baad apnay country ko serve krna hai waqas ne"..
11:54 " govt se oopar Allah hai aur mujhay Allah se poora yaqin hai..."..


----------



## Valar Dohaeris

Farah Sohail said:


> Since no one has owned it yet... Is there a chance..tht agencies have not picked them up..and its some other phadda? Maybe their handlers took them out?


It could have been but actually their pages went down too along with them. As far as owning is concerned, it is not necessary yet, specially when every media channel is trying to prove them activist or what not. In the past too, people who were taken by agencies, they are not owned publicly by govt officials. It is also gives an impression that crimes of these people were bigger then merely running few pages, this is why security agencies had to took action against them. Because their pages were blocked in past too, but this is the first time page runner are being brought to justice.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mrc

chances of finding these guys alive are pretty remote I must say.....

whom ever did it has no intention of releasing them........

I would be cautious before I blame agencies..... just by looking at sabeen Mahmud's case....


its completely possible that their handlers took them out .... like they did with sabeen


----------



## RealNapster

friendly_troll96 said:


> 11:54 " govt se oopar Allah hai aur mujhay Allah se poora yaqin hai..



Hainnn ? Allah yaad aa gya inhe ab ?

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Abu Zolfiqar

Valar Dohaeris said:


> Indeed. Thankful to our state and those people who took this action.


If any other anti National/slanderous groups come up plz PM or tag me in post and I'll also report. Glad that other garbage was removed. What a bunch of deadbeat losers. Probably unemployed

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> If any other anti National/slanderous groups come up plz PM or tag me in post and I'll also report. Glad that other garbage was removed. What a bunch of deadbeat losers. Probably unemployed


how do u report? FB only?


----------



## Mrc

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> how do u report? FB only?




http://www.nr3c.gov.pk/


facebook is useless... they would support blasphemy...

for blasphemy related offences I am glad to report and put my address and cnic on the report....so please please please also do tag me

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## friendly_troll96

RealNapster said:


> Hainnn ? Allah yaad aa gya inhe ab ?


did you see the video?
i was shocked, too.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mrc

Guys we all can help... if any one comes across blasphemy on these libral pages... report it here... so people can take action and report it via nr3c link i have posted above... i m glad to put my name on reports...i m sure many others will be too

Reactions: Like Like:

5


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

RealNapster said:


> ..
> ..
> Just an Hour ago i come to know all this drama due to my exams (thank God Mukh gaye) ... Then i searched a little bit about this matter and found a "this Post" from "Bhensa" page and i was like WTF MAN.
> ..
> 
> View attachment 368181
> 
> 
> View attachment 368182
> 
> 
> I am not labeling some one NON-Muslim or anti-Islam as i am not eligible to do so. But this is insane.
> ..
> ..


once you insult the Prophet or any Prophet for that matter , then no iman is left sorry! people need to stop being delusional.

Reactions: Like Like:
11


----------



## friendly_troll96

RealNapster said:


> ..
> ..
> Just an Hour ago i come to know all this drama due to my exams (thank God Mukh gaye) ... Then i searched a little bit about this matter and found a "this Post" from "Bhensa" page and i was like WTF MAN.
> ..
> 
> View attachment 368181
> 
> 
> View attachment 368182
> 
> 
> I am not labeling some one NON-Muslim or anti-Islam as i am not eligible to do so. But this is insane.
> ..
> ..


please edit out the screenshot. i don't even want to see/hear what they used to say about islam and pak.

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## RealNapster

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> once you insult the Prophet or any Prophet for that matter , then no iman is left sorry! people need to stop being delusional.



True. but if we say this to them. then we are "conservative and radical Muslims" . 




friendly_troll96 said:


> please edit out the screenshot. i don't even want to see/hear what they used to say about islam and pak.



Even i can't see it with open heart. but still i found some person on different sites (including this forum) defending the acts of these so-called activists. . so let it be there. let the other's who are defending these so-called "activist" , know what they actually did. and let the other who don't know the details get the whole story.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

RealNapster said:


> True. but if we say this to them. then we are "conservative and radical Muslims" .


The thing is that you dont say.
You just ask them to ask themselves a question and move on.
It is mentioned and I ve also seen in in my experience that with time these people become worse in the disbelief.
I recall certain someone just like that & used to lecture ppl that he was doing them a favor so they could become better human beings by leaving islam, At the same time he divorced his with wit a special child stating that she had become too fat and as promised, she did not lose weight. LOL. 
I know the guy personally. He know more Quran/hadith than you & I but too bad atheism/secularisn still kept him at being a feces.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## RealNapster

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> I know the guy personally. He know more Quran/hadith than you & I but too bad atheism/secularisn still kept him at being a feces



Exactly.
do you know why these people try to learn and study more and more of Islam ? to implement it ? No. but just to "find'' some loopholes and some points which they can reject with their "superior logic's" . 



Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> It is mentioned and I ve also seen in in my experience that with time these people become worse in the disbelief.



Seriously. and that's what i am afraid of. How will our society look like say after "20 years. if they are not stoped. horrible thoughts.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Asfandyar Bhittani

To Those who Have Bhensa

"Botti Choti Rakhna"

ThankYou!

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

RealNapster said:


> Exactly.
> do you know why these people try to learn and study more and more of Islam ? to implement it ? No. but just to "find'' some loopholes and some points which they can reject with their "superior logic's" .
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously. and that's what i am afraid of. How will our society look like say after "20 years. if they are not stoped. horrible thoughts.


You cant.
Why do you think Isa a.s & Mahdi a.s are to return? For reformation of both extremes and as for Isa a.s , a lot more thereafter.
The ppl in the middle have no say.! Its either one or the other extreme.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## RealNapster

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> You cant.
> Why do you think Isa a.s & Mahdi a.s are to return? For reformation of both extremes and as for Isa a.s , a lot more thereafter.
> The ppl in the middle have so say.! Its either one or the other extreme.
> 
> 
> You cant.
> Why do you think Isa a.s & Mahdi a.s are to return? For reformation of both extremes and as for Isa a.s , a lot more thereafter.
> The ppl in the middle have so say.! Its either one or the other extreme.




May Allah Help Us.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## friendly_troll96

RealNapster said:


> True. but if we say this to them. then we are "conservative and radical Muslims" .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even i can't see it with open heart. but still i found some person on different sites (including this forum) defending the acts of these so-called activists. . so let it be there. let the other's who are defending these so-called "activist" , know what they actually did. and let the other who don't know the details get the whole story.


Those defending them know too darn well what these guys were doing..they're cut from the same fabric. They're only playing ignorant because it suits them ATM -- know their trick.
Surprised because you saw one guy on this forum defending them? Go to defence.pk fb, you'll find hordes of them.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

friendly_troll96 said:


> Those defending them know too darn well what these guys were doing..they're cut from the same fabric. They're only playing ignorant because it suits them ATM -- know their trick.
> Surprised because you saw one guy on this forum defending them? Go to defence.pk fb, you'll find hordes of them.


Heck they even had a protest for these ppl's release here in Texas. Go figure.
These are being hailed as liberal secular heroes.


----------



## M. Sarmad

RealNapster said:


> Even i can't see it with open heart. but still i found some person on different sites (including this forum) defending the acts of these so-called activists. . so let it be there. let the other's who are defending these so-called "activist" , know what they actually did. and let the other who don't know the details get the whole story.



Please point it out to us that who on this Forum is defending their acts .... If they are criminals, they should be punished according to the law of the land ... No proof has been provided by anyone so far that the "missing" guys had actually committed any crime .... Even if we take the story at face value, there is still no proof that the kidnapped guys were actually the admins of those pages, or they (and not some other admin(s)) had made those blasphemous/anti-national posts ..Asking/demanding a fair trial/law procedure for the accused is not the same as defending the crime... Too hard for you to understand such a simple thing ?? ..

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## RealNapster

Azlan Haider said:


> Please point it out to us that who on this Forum is defending their acts .... If they are criminals, they should be punished according to the law of the land ..



Sorry i can't say names as i am a bit civilized. may be.  . keep moving through threads and you will find some of these guyz. and BTW i didn't mentioned this forum only .




Azlan Haider said:


> .. No proof has been provided by anyone so far that the "missing" guys had actually committed any crime ..



Where i said the "missing persons" were involved and are criminals ? Or we should kill them ASAP ? i quoted the page "bhens" ... i didn't even mentioned name of a single individual. so keep this Non-sense blame game to yourself.

Shia sunni
Liberal Conservative
Feminism Chauvinism
PTI PMLN

These are the things which i DO NOT talk about. so please don't bring me into this discussion. it have no end neither a result.



friendly_troll96 said:


> Surprised because you saw one guy on this forum defending them? Go to defence.pk fb, you'll find hordes of them.



Just coming back from defence.Pk facebook page. We Pakistani nation seriously need "tarbeyat and tameez".

tameez manay sahe ghalat, achay buray ki..

Tarbeyt mane patience, healthy debate or dosre such cheezo ki.



Azlan Haider said:


> . Too hard for you to understand such a simple thing ?? ..



Now tell me who miss understood ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## M. Sarmad

RealNapster said:


> Sorry i can't say names as i am a bit civilized. may be.  . keep moving through threads and you will find some of these guyz. and BTW i didn't mentioned this forum only .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where i said the "missing persons" were involved and are criminals ? Or we should kill them ASAP ? i quoted the page "bhens" ... i didn't even mentioned name of a single individual. so keep this Non-sense blame game to yourself.
> 
> Shia sunni
> Liberal Conservative
> Feminism Chauvinism
> PTI PMLN
> 
> These are the things which i DO NOT talk about. so please don't bring me into this discussion. i have no end neither a result.




No you aren't civilized ..... Civilized people don't talk or act like this ... 

Anyway what "activists" were you referring to ?


----------



## RealNapster

Azlan Haider said:


> No you aren't civilized ..... Civilized people don't talk or act like this ...



Not act like what ? do elaborate please. which word/act of mine was uncivilized ? tell me. 



Azlan Haider said:


> Anyway what "activists" were you referring to ?



Activist for so-called freedom of speech. who wan't the freedom to criticize and degrade the Holy Prophet in a country where 98% of Population is Muslims. 

now you will again start the jibber jabber about "they are not proved guilty and this and that'''.. So hear me out AGAIN. i criticized the Admin of "Bhensa" page. i didn't said that admin is one of those missing persons. did i ?


And i will again and again criticize Bhensa's page admin for his posts do whatever you can. 

and please at end do tell me civilized people do not act like what ? which word/act of mine was uncivilized ? tell me.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Azlan Haider said:


> Please point it out to us that who on this Forum is defending their acts .... If they are criminals, they should be punished according to the law of the land ... No proof has been provided by anyone so far that the "missing" guys had actually committed any crime .... Even if we accept the story on its face value, there is still no proof that the kidnapped guys were actually the admins of those pages, or they (and not some other admin(s)) had made those blasphemous/anti-national posts ..Asking/demanding a fair trial/law procedure for the accused is not the same as defending the crime... Too hard for you to understand such a simple thing ?? ..


There is no question that missing be charged in the court or set free if they are innocent if authorities do have them
.If it is indeed these individuals then it is a failure as usual on teh part of govt. to have allowed these ppl to go on for so long. There is no such thing as absolute freedom.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## friendly_troll96

RealNapster said:


> Tarbeyt mane patience, healthy debate or dosre such cheezo ki.






Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> There is no question that missing be charged in the court or set free if they are innocent if authorities do have them
> .If it is indeed these individuals then it is a failure as usual on teh part of govt. to have allowed these ppl to go on for so long. *There is no such thing as absolute freedom*.


exactly.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## RealNapster

friendly_troll96 said:


> exactly.



bhai confusion kis bat ki ? Sach yahe hay kay ham Pakistanio ko siray se debate karna aata he nahe. islye to har debate aik argument ki shakal le leta hay jo kay aagy jaa kar us se b severe masle kary kar deta hay.

So yes we need Parvaresh as a Qoam.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## friendly_troll96

funny and sad how some people harp on the rule of law when it suits them.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khanate

I don't endorse anything Bhensa stands for or his anarchist mindset but we, as Muslims, need to face these people instead of coddling our people. Logic can used and abused so use your mental faculties and argue back. Use their tactics on them. Don't just sit back and hope government or some patriotic Pakistani will do something.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mugwop

Zibago said:


> Yes it is actually the cyber crime law which I resisted makes it legal to arrest you over fb posts
> 
> Real bhensa was an anti Pakistan anti Islam page where liberalism meant making fun of Pakistan, its creators, posting offensive images on milli naghmays, putting tilawat sound on item songs videos, posting blasphemous content in urdu and criticising army and praising mqm, pmln, anp for no reason other than hate
> They were just a tarek fath type groupi am glad its gone


Who are they and where do they live? Why do they call themselves cows?


----------



## friendly_troll96

RealNapster said:


> bhai confusion kis bat ki ? Sach yahe hay kay ham Pakistanio ko siray se debate karna aata he nahe. islye to har debate aik argument ki shakal le leta hay jo kay aagy jaa kar us se b severe masle kary kar deta hay.
> 
> So yes we need Parvaresh as a Qoam.


Okay. But what's debatable here?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RealNapster

friendly_troll96 said:


> Okay. But what's debatable here?





bhai jaan i was talking about debate between

Secular and religious person.
a Liberal and a conservative person.
Feminist and a chauvinist.
a PTI supporter and a PMLN supporter.

and list goes on. 

P.s; it includes a Doctor and an Engineer debate. jo har time lagy hoty hay is discussion me kay engineering aalaw hay kay MBBS.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HAIDER

Azlan Haider said:


> Please point it out to us that who on this Forum is defending their acts .... If they are criminals, they should be punished according to the law of the land ... No proof has been provided by anyone so far that the "missing" guys had actually committed any crime .... Even if we take the story at face value, there is still no proof that the kidnapped guys were actually the admins of those pages, or they (and not some other admin(s)) had made those blasphemous/anti-national posts ..Asking/demanding a fair trial/law procedure for the accused is not the same as defending the crime... Too hard for you to understand such a simple thing ?? ..


Did you visit those pages ? ...any of those missing guys did blasphemy ? ....asking because don't know much about this all fiasco ......


----------



## friendly_troll96

RealNapster said:


> bhai jaan i was talking about debate between
> 
> Secular and religious person.
> a Liberal and a conservative person.
> Feminist and a chauvinist.
> a PTI supporter and a PMLN supporter.
> 
> and list goes on.
> 
> P.s; it includes a Doctor and an Engineer debate. jo har time lagy hoty hay is discussion me kay engineering aalaw hay kay MBBS.


since paks need pravarish on debate as you put it, which i second, who's gonna do that and how? we're 200 million remember? life can't be put on hold until the ideal situation when you have everything you need.

if you just came to know that us paks don't know how to debate, you're late. and if you knew this before, and wanted to tell the world now, you're late..again!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

Azlan Haider said:


> Please point it out to us that who on this Forum is defending their acts .... If they are criminals, they should be punished according to the law of the land ... No proof has been provided by anyone so far that the "missing" guys had actually committed any crime .... Even if we take the story at face value, there is still no proof that the kidnapped guys were actually the admins of those pages, or they (and not some other admin(s)) had made those blasphemous/anti-national posts ..Asking/demanding a fair trial/law procedure for the accused is not the same as defending the crime... Too hard for you to understand such a simple thing ?? ..



Even the worst alleged criminal deserves due process of law. Let all these accusations be presented in court with evidence, and let due process work, including right of defense.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Safriz

Good riddance.
Bhainsa group were actively involved in pumping out Anti Pakistan and Anti Islam propaganda and were paid to do that.
Hope we never see them again.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Yaseen1

There is a possibility that these missing person come under ALLAH ALMIGHTY ALONE punishment and their faces are changed to animal faces or earth open on them and they get burried in it if no one get any information about them

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Sully3

Look its very simple whats happened here.

The secret state or whatever you want to call them have seen the Trump win in America and decided that having open fake propaganda on social networking sites can cause the general public to believe it and it changes the view of thinking and they have demanded it unsafe for national interest. 

By going after them they are protecting the nations interest at large no matter what anyones personal views on the kidnappings are. 

Unfortunately there are too many Tarek Fateh like scumbags in this world.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zibago

Mugwop said:


> Who are they and where do they live? Why do they call themselves cows?


They are Tarik Fateh types they live in Islamabad,Lahore and Larachi mainly and bhens isnt a cow its a buffalo 



HAIDER said:


> Did you visit those pages ? ...any of those missing guys did blasphemy ? ....asking because don't know much about this all fiasco ......


I did visit bhensa page I know the filth that was displayed



RealNapster said:


> ..
> ..
> Just an Hour ago i come to know all this drama due to my exams (thank God Mukh gaye) ... Then i searched a little bit about this matter and found a "this Post" from "Bhensa" page and i was like WTF MAN.
> ..
> 
> View attachment 368181
> 
> 
> View attachment 368182
> 
> 
> I am not labeling some one NON-Muslim or anti-Islam as i am not eligible to do so. But this is insane.
> ..
> ..


This was daily occurance at bhensa thats why I hate it I got banned at bhensa for criticizing mqm 
@Moonlight @The Sandman @django @Musafir117



waleed3601 said:


> remind me again how many people liberals have killed because they don't agree with their views?
> if you can't take rational criticism, then i've got to say you lot have one bloated ego. hurt by mere words, not even bullets.
> no place for free thinkers these days. not in al bakistan.


Religion argument aside they insulted creation of this country do you think such people deserve to live freely in a country they think was a mistake?
I think not even US president proposed strict action against those who insult national symbols and we arent even a proper democracy so its fair that we are breaking necks of all those who mock our country while living in Pakistan

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## LA se Karachi

Zibago said:


> I think not even US president proposed strict action against those who insult national symbols and we arent even a proper democracy so its fair that we are breaking necks of all those who mock our country while living in Pakistan




Trump can propose whatever he wants. The bottom line is that our freedom of speech is protected by the First Amendment to the Constitution. 

An American can insult the "national symbols" of the country all he or she wants. It makes no difference. Words and pieces of paper or cloth are just that. We pay no attention to people who do things like that. Because at the end of the day, nothing that they do can actually undermine the country. You give them too much importance by going after them. It's better to simply ignore them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## django

Zibago said:


> Yes it is actually the cyber crime law which I resisted makes it legal to arrest you over fb posts
> 
> Real bhensa was an anti Pakistan anti Islam page where liberalism meant making fun of Pakistan, its creators, posting offensive images on milli naghmays, putting tilawat sound on item songs videos, posting blasphemous content in urdu and criticising army and praising mqm, pmln, anp for no reason other than hate
> They were just a tarek fath type groupi am glad its gone


Who is behind bhensa? the illegitimate love child of ugly gremlin pig Tarek Fateh and his filthy bit on the side Tasleema Nasreen!

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zibago

LA se Karachi said:


> Trump can propose whatever he wants. The bottom line is that our freedom of speech is protected by the First Amendment to the Constitution.
> 
> An American can insult the "national symbols" of the country all he or she wants. It makes no difference. Words and pieces of paper or cloth are just that. We pay no attention to people who do things like that. Because at the end of the day, nothing that they do can actually undermine the country. You give them too much importance by going after them. It's better to simply ignore them.


The argument Isnt what cant be done but what he proposed Trump who Is president of democracy thekedar threatened action against all those who insult national symbols
Oh and btw if a constitutional ammendment is brought laws of US may change thats what some American activists are saying


----------



## The Sandman

Zibago said:


> This was daily occurance at bhensa thats why I hate it I got banned at bhensa for criticizing mqm


As i said these retards lost all the sympathy from me when is saw these posts. f**k them

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## LA se Karachi

Zibago said:


> The argument Isnt what cant be done but what he proposed Trump who Is president of democracy thekedar threatened action against all those who insult national symbols




Okay, but what I'm saying is that Trump's personal opinions do not supersede the Constitution or the law in general. Politicians propose a lot of things. Here in America, our freedoms are protected by the Constitution, not by Trump.

Also, please keep in mind that Trump lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes (46-48%). He doesn't speak for most the country.



Zibago said:


> Oh and btw if a constitutional ammendment is brought laws of US may change thats what some American activists are saying




Well as I said, many things are proposed, but few become law.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zibago

LA se Karachi said:


> Okay, but what I'm saying is that Trump's personal opinions do not supersede the Constitution or the law in general. Politicians propose a lot of things. Here in America, our freedoms are protected by the Constitution, not by Trump.
> 
> Also, please keep in mind that Trump lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes (46-48%). He doesn't speak for most the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well as I said, many things are proposed, but few become law.


Yes he does Hillary represents the heavily populated democratic states only while Trump got majority in most IS states he represents what average American outside those states think like 


Constitution can be changed by two-third majority no?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Moonlight

Remember I once said "desi liberals & Moom Batti Mafia" and you kinda disagreed with me. @Hell hound. So this is why I have not even a bit respect of these fake liberals. Thankfully he's exposed. These people are equally damaging Pakistan and playing an amazing job with portraying mullahs the "villains". So no one pays any attention to their evilest work in our society.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LA se Karachi

Zibago said:


> Yes he does Hillary represents the heavily populated democratic states only while Trump got majority in most IS states he represents what average American outside those states think like




He absolutely does not. The "average American" is middle class and lives in an urban area---either in the city or the suburbs, not in the rural hinterland. 

And he certainly does not speak for a _majority_ of Americans:

Hillary received 65,844,954 votes *(48%)* to Trump's 62,979,879 votes *(46%)*. 
_
http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president_



Zibago said:


> Constitution can be changed by two-third majority no?




Yes, either by two-thirds of both houses of Congress or by two-thirds of the state legislatures. And that's precisely why it's so difficult. Only two amendments to the Constitution have been ratified in the past 45 years.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zibago

LA se Karachi said:


> He absolutely does not. The "average American" is middle class and lives in an urban area---either in the city or the suburbs, not in the rural hinterland.
> 
> And he certainly does not speak for a _majority_ of Americans:
> 
> Hillary received 65,844,954 votes *(48%)* to Trump's 62,979,879 votes *(46%)*.
> _
> http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, either by two-thirds of both houses of Congress or by two-thirds of the state legislatures. And that's precisely why it's so difficult. Only two amendments to the Constitution have been ratified in the past 45 years.


But he represents mote states he won majaority in more states which means if you travel from one state to another you are likely to bump into a Trump supporter Hillary supporters were mainly from few heavily populated states you tame california out and majority get slim you take Ny out the majority disappears 
Trump represents most americans outside these two states 

If I am not mistaking last time they tried ti criminalize flag burning they lost by single margin votes no?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## LA se Karachi

Zibago said:


> But he represents mote states he won majaority in more states which means if you travel from one state to another you are likely to bump into a Trump supporter Hillary supporters were mainly from few heavily populated states you tame california out and majority get slim you take Ny out the majority disappears
> Trump represents most americans outside these two states




The thing is, tens of millions of Americans live in these two states. If you exclude them for some reason (they are an integral part of America both demographically and economically), then you are excluding a large chunk of America itself. Fewer people live in the smaller states.

I live in Los Angeles County, and it has a population of roughly 10 million people. Just my county alone would be the 10th-most populous state if it were to become one. A lot of states have small populations. People are not spread out evenly:









Zibago said:


> If I am not mistaking last time they tried ti criminalize flag burning they lost by single margin votes no?




Yes, but opinion polls have generally shown people opposed to it, though the numbers fluctuate. Keep in mind that some Senators voted for it, but probably didn't want it to pass. It's no coincidence that it came so close to passing, but failed. Something similar will likely happen if another vote is held.


----------



## Patriots

Spring Onion said:


> what atheists believe is their right but abusing and insulting and making fun of Islam is Not their right. The problem with these atheists is that they think abusing others' faith is atheism which in fact shows that they are confused about their own ideology.



Absolutely rught ..........


----------



## Clutch

Disappearance of activists echoes in Senate

IFTIKHAR A. KHAN — UPDATED about 2 hours ago
WHATSAPP
 0 COMMENTS
 PRINT




Five civil society activists — including (from left) Waqas Goraya, Salman Haider, Samar Abbas and Asim Saeed — have gone missing over the past one week.


ISLAMABAD: The sudden re-emergence of the phenomenon of enforced disappearances prompted a call in the Senate on Friday for legislation to bring state agencies under the ambit of law.

Speaking on a point of public importance, PPP Senator Farhatullah Babar said the Senate Committee of the Whole on speedy and inexpensive justice had recently forwarded its recommendations to the government, one of which was related to missing persons and included draft legislation to bring the state agencies under the ambit of the law.

He said it had been decided that if the government did not respond to the draft law then the parliamentary leaders would sign it and get it approved from the house as a private members’ bill.

Addressing the Senate chairman, he said that since a 60-day period was over, the recommendation of the report on speedy and inexpensive justice be implemented in letter and spirit.

*Call to bring agencies under ambit of law*
“The mysterious disappearance of civil society activists from Islamabad soon after the Senate taking up the issue and the interior minister’s assurance that disappearances will not be allowed is a stark message to parliament, the interior minister and the civil society that their protests notwithstanding, citizens will continue to disappear with impunity. In the native parlance the message is ‘hor chupo’.”


_Published in Dawn January 14th, 2017_

*I have no idea who Bhensa never heard of them... but is this Dawn article related to it?

If yes, then Dawn is very disingenuous in not disclosing all the facts. The treat from Neo-Liberalism is just as great as the threat from the religious extremists.*


----------



## Awan68

pak-marine said:


> Well done now lets see how far this takes this country


Hey why dont u shove ur sarcaism where the sun doesnt shine, its pathetic really, got something on ur mind?, come out n say it..



waleed3601 said:


> remind me again how many people liberals have killed because they don't agree with their views?
> if you can't take rational criticism, then i've got to say you lot have one bloated ego. hurt by mere words, not even bullets.
> no place for free thinkers these days. not in al bakistan.


We just conducted a cruise missle test out of a sub, how many more freethinkers do u want?, if by freethinkers u mean people that promote anti state anti islam propoganda than lol we dont want those fucked up free bullshiters...



TheDarkKnight said:


> The number of people killed by PPP and MQM in Karachi?


Hey dont argue with this idiot, he obviously suffers from lack of iq and historical knowledge, he obviously doesnt know that russia was the main source of liberalism and athiesm and the number of people lenin and stalin killed, he obviously doesnt know the number of people his dear liberal west enslaved and killed in africa, he obviously doesnt know that ttp was the militant wing of these liberal scums, ttp would do its best to defame islam and jihad by attacks on innocents giving these scumbags ample ammunation to attack islam, this was a network that played in both sides of the board, mqm used to condemn taliban lol but both these groups answered to raw??

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## RangeMaster

waleed3601 said:


> remind me again how many people liberals have killed because they don't agree with their views?
> if you can't take rational criticism, then i've got to say you lot have one bloated ego. hurt by mere words, not even bullets.
> no place for free thinkers these days. not in al bakistan.


What do you mean by free thinkers.If today I start abusing your father and family,you would let me to do so?You should, because I am a freethinker and have right to say anything.Where is your freethinkig and freedom of speech when religion is other than Islam and country other than Pakistan.There are more threats from ill minded liberals then molvis to Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Clutch said:


> Disappearance of activists echoes in Senate


Does the Senate take note of events happening to everyday ordinary citizens? Just wondering.
What does my family have to do to become relevant at parliment level? Have foreign patrons or $$$ or what?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Clutch

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> Does the Senate take note of events happening to everyday ordinary citizens? Just wondering.
> What does my family have to do to become relevant at parliment level? Have foreign patrons or $$$ or what?



Are those people the Bhensa People in Dawn news? ... never heard about this till now...

Pakistani Liberals are turning into Salman Rushdie's. ...


----------



## CriticalThinker02



Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## EnggineerShahjehan

Its my personal understanding, agencies caught these so called activists and probably would have released them after giving them few lessons of does and don'ts , but things got ugly , when electronic media jumped in and made the issue public , without realizing that these people were involved in cold blood blasphemies online in name of activism and if agencies want they can easily punish these people by just releasing the stuffs to general public they were upto, but presure from outside world will be too much to sustain, and electronic media under enemies control, LEAs eventually will let them go, details and exact only ALLAH knows.

Brave work by HORUS !

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Farah Sohail

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Even the worst alleged criminal deserves due process of law. Let all these accusations be presented in court with evidence, and let due process work, including right of defense.



ok...why did Osama bin Laden was not given due process..then? why was he killed in a so called operation in Abbottabad then and his dead body being thrown in the sea, as claimed by Americans? yes..bring the usual bogey of rule of law, whenever it suits pseudo liberals...

Imagine our agencies claiming tht they shott hese so called activists, and threw their dead bodies in sea..? imagine the hue and cry of pseudo liberals like you then.. but since..it was owned by the mighty America..so all is fine...

Appalled by the hypocrisy of pseudo liberals and their double standards

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## EnggineerShahjehan

crane berry said:


> Don't worry because of that much noise and alarms now they would be sent to direct in hell without any trace of their bodies.


Seems difficult ! Pakistan is yet not at that level where it can oppose direct foreign pressure,,, It requires time where the decisions will be our own.


----------



## EnggineerShahjehan

There could be


crane berry said:


> They should have been silenced long back I don't know why authorities did't take action.


There could be several reasons, agencies were busy in rooting out religious extremism and then ethnic terrorism, seems time for liberal fascist just started, hope it is properly calculated cauz its quite risky,,, these are educated, planned , planted people with strong back bones,,, agencies need to tackle them cautiously.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## EnggineerShahjehan

crane berry said:


> No need many being killed daily by target killers so don't arrest them locate them and kill them just show it as a simple robbery attempt and killing simple.


More u kill them more will come,,,these are planted people,,, Better to opt some other way round.


----------



## mdcp

We must protest their sponsors and these people ultimate motives which is to create anarchy in Pakistan and malign the name of Pakistan world wide.

Pakistan is islamic country where minorities have freedom and respect but these atheist who mock our values must be dealt accordingly

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EnggineerShahjehan

crane berry said:


> No such people will stop doing these things for money after few day light killings.
> 
> Very soon you see me banned since admins of PDF support these goons.


No PDF don't support it, it is horus from PDF who is fighting battle alone and from front , one of admin from PDF, these activists have leverage of electronic medic, so killing wont solve it, it will add more salt, make their lifes miserable by other way, but if u kill any one of them , there cause will achieve more attention.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Danish saleem

Patriots said:


> @Horus
> 
> You are doing great work to exposing so-called liberal scumbags ... They are actually cancer in our society along with religious extreemist elements ... But work is not completed ... "The Naked Truth" & "Humkalam" are roaming freely and spitting their venom ..........



i really shocked when i saw the content shared on Page Bhansa!

what language they so called educated liberals using against our Prophet SAWW, and joking with Quranic verses. i am really ashamed !

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## EnggineerShahjehan

crane berry said:


> I am talking about the owner of this site. Anyways name them and shame them publicly also good.


There is not a single owner its operated by a network, samar abbas , shahzad haider etc are all pawns in big chess games , we trust our agencies , let them do it there own way, and let us put our trust on them, and we do our own task of sharing and passing on information to our own friends n family to remain aware of such things.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zibago

Danish saleem said:


> i really shocked when i saw the content shared on Page Bhansa!
> 
> what language they so called educated liberals using against our Prophet SAWW, and joking with Quranic verses. i am really ashamed !


He was pro noon actually all of the so called liberal pages were anti pti and pro 
Noon they called every single protest againt govt as conspiracy by isi

Glad to know baboon league attracts such a patriotic crowd that mocks dead civilians at loc and justify and mock bombing of palestenians by Israelis

Name and shame all bitches who suppprt bhensa goons
http://nation.com.pk/columns/14-Jan-2017/with-impunity
@django @The Sandman @PaklovesTurkiye

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## pak-marine

Awan68 said:


> Hey why dont u shove ur sarcaism where the sun doesnt shine, its pathetic really, got something on ur mind?, come out n say it..
> ?


Hey sunshine no need to loose it and go full
Retard here is a small article 

http://www.dawn.com/news/1308254/abducting-social-activists


----------



## Zibago

crane berry said:


> What a white lie...most of these guys support and supported by PTI so called liberal party.
> 
> 
> What is your atheist ID Khazrat Nakhuda or Mochi?
> 
> 
> Check who is saying.


Nope all three pages were anti army anti pti i used to argue with admin of bhensa he banned me for bashing him and mqm 
You have no idea who they were you should go to playing role of widow on pdf

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## CHACHA"G"

*Hello all
WTF , Those types of pages , man its just too much , Its great to know they are down and there pages too , but it will be a great shame if they come out alive, They deserve punishment (pain full) for what they did. 
Not only them but also all those who are coming out for there support , My foot fking Roshan Khiyal activists . Kill them all too with there brothers TTPs , One Liberal and Second Religious but in reality Both Terrorists.

Note: I am having a fear that they might be killed by there handlers , just like Sabeen . But if, This is done by any of our agency , Salute to them , Great jobs guys , best of luck and keep up the good work .
@Hours Great job done bro , keep up the good work . I have a suggestion if u can pass it to authorities , Its time to make a proper activists cell(forum, sensor , etc) to counter and check , Pro Iran(Shia) + Pro KSA(Sunni or Wahhabi) pages , posts , videos , articles ,news , liberals , fundamentalist, activists , scholars etc,,,, Its time for PAKISTAN FIRST (Islamic Pakistan not Sunni Nor Shia) 

Please say no to Liberal Terrorism . Thank u all 

@Zibago , @django , @The Sandman , @Moonlight , @PaklovesTurkiye , @Zarvan , @Ulla *

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## PakSword

If our agencies have abducted them, it's one of the many few actions they have taken in recent years.. 

I have heard that the pages are now being controlled by Elite Cyber Force? I am sure that within half an hour of servicing in drawing rooms of the safe houses, they vomited the usernames and passwords of these pages...

Very good action..

By the way, how @Horus has done in this regard? I want to know to consider him a hero...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pak-marine

crane berry said:


> What is your atheist ID Khazrat Nakhuda or Mochi?



Paranoia is getting to your head .. lol .. get it checked early else worst case people implode

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Sandman

Zibago said:


> He was pro noon actually all of the so called liberal pages were anti pti and pro
> Noon they called every single protest againt govt as conspiracy by isi
> 
> Glad to know baboon league attracts such a patriotic crowd that mocks dead civilians at loc and justify and mock bombing of palestenians by Israelis
> 
> Name and shame all bitches who suppprt bhensa goons
> http://nation.com.pk/columns/14-Jan-2017/with-impunity
> @django @The Sandman @PaklovesTurkiye


Shameless people will do anything for $$.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Clutch

crane berry said:


> @Farah Sohail @PakSword @EnggineerShahjehan @Zarvan @Tipu7
> 
> Dear All we should prepare a list of those guys on PDF who supports and claiming to be atheist so that we demand from admin to ban them or report them to authorities.



Coming out with pitch forks and a lynching party won't win you the argument. A mob mentality is a refuge of a scoundrel.

Win the argument with truth and justice not blood letting.


----------



## The Sandman

crane berry said:


> And you are quoting one of them.


No i am not what are you talking about?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PakSword

crane berry said:


> @Farah Sohail @PakSword @EnggineerShahjehan @Zarvan @Tipu7
> 
> Dear All we should prepare a list of those guys on PDF who supports and claiming to be atheist so that we demand from admin to ban them or report them to authorities.




If someone calls their parents or grandparents pigs or scumbags, they would call it personal attacks. But when it comes to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) who is considered much more than ourselves, our children and our parents, the whole world and everything created by Allah in the universe or multiverse for us, they say it is ok to criticize him (PBUH).. 


I say .... them...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## The Sandman

crane berry said:


> The person your are quoting is open supporter of agnostic and atheist but now showing us that he is working against them but if you check his post history you will find him one them.


I know him for more than 1 year now and he never said anything like that. Yes he speaks against mullahs and there's nothing wrong with that.
@django @Hell hound

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Spring Onion

crane berry said:


> @Farah Sohail @PakSword @EnggineerShahjehan @Zarvan @Tipu7
> 
> Dear All we should prepare a list of those guys on PDF who supports and claiming to be atheist so that we demand from admin to ban them or report them to authorities.


what is your other id on this forum?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## PakSword

Clutch said:


> Coming out with pitch forks and a lynching party won't win you the argument. A mob mentality is a refuge of a scoundrel.
> 
> Win the argument with truth and justice not blood letting.



Democracy my friend democracy... This is called true democracy.. Not the mob mentality.

If more than 90% members don't want to see the scumbags, admin should take strict action against them..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Clutch

crane berry said:


> I don't care what you thinks about me. Take my two cents.




Yet, you want others to take your two cents... i.e. care about what you say?

Don't let your emotions get your common sense in a knot.

Anyways, I do not intend to get into a meaningless argument with you. I do not support whatever thing Neo-Liberalism Bhensa stands for...]



PakSword said:


> Democracy my friend democracy... This is called true democracy.. Not the mob mentality.
> 
> If more than 90% members don't want to see the scumbags, admin should take strict action against them..


I agree... but i am wary of calling people out without concrete evidence.


----------



## PakSword

crane berry said:


> The person your are quoting is open supporter of agnostic and atheist but now showing us that he is working against them but if you check his post history you will find him one them.



Who are you talking about?


----------



## The Sandman

PakSword said:


> Who are you talking about?


@Zibago


----------



## PakSword

Clutch said:


> I agree... but i am wary of calling people out without concrete evidence.



Circumstantial evidence says that they are the ones who were running these pages.. 

Enough evidence includes the interview of haider's cousin... And none of haider's family members denied that he is not his cousin.



The Sandman said:


> @Zibago



@Zibago is a nice chap... I don't believe it..

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Clutch

PakSword said:


> Circumstantial evidence says that they are the ones who were running these pages..
> 
> Enough evidence includes the interview of haider's cousin... And none of haider's family members denied that he is not his cousin.



I have no clue what the whole thing is about... so I'm out of this thread... 

Just weird to see such a mob mentality calling for the death of people has serious consequences. 

Bye...


----------



## PakSword

Clutch said:


> I have no clue what the whole thing is about... so I'm out of this thread...
> 
> Just weird to see such a mob mentality calling for the death of people has serious consequences.
> 
> Bye...



We are asking to ban members who support people who say bad things about our prophet (PBUH).

You should better come prepared next time before taking sides...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Farah Sohail

PakSword said:


> If our agencies have abducted them, it's one of the many few actions they have taken in recent years..
> 
> I have heard that the pages are now being controlled by Elite Cyber Force? I am sure that within half an hour of servicing in drawing rooms of the safe houses, they vomited the usernames and passwords of these pages...
> 
> Very good action..
> 
> By the way, how @Horus has done in this regard? I want to know to consider him a hero...



Horus has relevealed the identity of these so called activits, aka bhensa and others...and is leading the campaign against pseudo liberals and bhensa supporters on twitter... he is getting such pages blocked

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## PakSword

Farah Sohail said:


> Horus has relevealed the identity of these so called activits, aka bhensa and others...and is leading the campaign against pseudo liberals and bhensa supporters on twitters... he is getting such pages blocked



I want to help him in his cause.. if he needs any support online...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Farah Sohail

PakSword said:


> I want to help him in his cause.. if he needs any support online...



go to twitter... he is leading campaign there.. and plus theres a trend #whoaretheydefending to expose pseudo liberals.. plus he wants ppl to keep an eye on those politicians and celebrities who are supporting these "activitists".... . and also, report to FIA cyber crime dept, such blasphemous pages.... follow his id bhensa slayer on twitter, to know more

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## PakSword

crane berry said:


> The person your are quoting is open supporter of agnostic and atheist



I can understand your emotions.. 

Being an atheist, christian, hindu, buddhist or supporting them shouldn't concern us.. This is Pakistan's ideology.. We are Muslims but we will provide all the means and security to non-Muslims and minorities living in Pakistan.. If someone supports minorities because religious extremists kill them, it is not a problem and completely fits the norms of our society..

However, if someone, in the name of minority rights say something bad about our beloved prophet (PBUH), he or she doesn't deserve to be part of our society. We have laws to deal with these scumbags.



Farah Sohail said:


> go to twitter... he is leading campaign there.. and plus theres a trend #whoaretheydefending to expose pseudo liberals.. plus he wants ppl to keep an eye on those politicians and celebrities who are supporting these "activitists".... . and also, report to FIA cyber crime dept, such blasphemous pages.... follow his id bhensa slayer on twitter, to know more



Thanks ...

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Kompromat

They'll be treated fairly and I hope the courts live up to our expectations. The evidence is enormous.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Kompromat

I tolerated him until he started to support BLF. That was a red line. @pak-marine

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## PakSword

crane berry said:


> Why not Horus exposing members of PDF who are noun atheist and often support the groups in Pakistan who are declared non-Muslims but they refuse to accept their non-Muslim status.



As I said earlier, being an atheist and live among us in Pakistan is perfectly fine.

But mocking our religion (that is followed by majority of us Pakistanis) should be forcefully stopped at any cost..



Horus said:


> They'll be treated fairly and I hope the courts live up to our expectations. The evidence is enormous.



I hope government will cancel their passports

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## PakSword

crane berry said:


> The most basic of so called atheist is to defame every religion.



If they do, put a ban on them..

@Horus

I think admins should amend the regulations of this forum that anyone talks bad about any religion will be immediately banned.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## T-123456

Spring Onion said:


> what atheists believe is their right but abusing and insulting and making fun of Islam is Not their right. The problem with these atheists is that they think abusing others' faith is atheism which in fact shows that they are confused about their own ideology.


You have some strange atheists and secularists in your country.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Farah Sohail

Horus said:


> They'll be treated fairly and I hope the courts live up to our expectations. The evidence is enormous.



what abt those members on PDF who are supporting these so called activits ? start banning them too... pseudo liberals support US agencies abducting ppl, but immediately start talking against our agencies when they abduct blasphemers.. I think members like Vcheng should be banned... enough of their hypocrisy.. start with PDF first

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Kompromat

Everyone's being watched. 




Farah Sohail said:


> what abt those members on PDF who are supporting these so called activits ? start banning them too... pseudo liberals support US agencies abducting ppl, but immediately start talking against our agencies when they abduct blasphemers.. I think members like Vcheng should be banned... enough of their hypocrisy.. start with PDF first

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Hell hound

crane berry said:


> @Zibago @pak-marine @Rafi and many others support these peoples.
> @Farah Sohail @Horus


show us a single post where they have done what you claim

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## paritosh

Patriots said:


> Atheists should not be allowed to spread their bull$hit everywhere in our Muslim society ..........


That is not a good thing. If Islam is the truth, then it should be questioned time and again.
Indoctrination is a society aiming low.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pak-marine

crane berry said:


> Soon PDF will loose some elite member. And it is a promise.



so very typical extremist of you


----------



## Zibago

crane berry said:


> What happen you are supposed to be atheist and agnostic sympathizer, now what happen?


They have a right to believe in whatever they want but anti state activities wont be tolerated



pak-marine said:


> so very typical extremist of you


Let Mia cry like a baby she is not capable of holding a debate like grownups

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## paritosh

Tipu7 said:


> There is need of proper Mutual understanding + Tolerance among us.
> 
> We need to get rid of extremists edges of our ''thinkers''............
> 
> I call them Religious terrorists & Secular terrorists.
> 
> Both are exact opposite but are extreme in their ways. One use gun, other use pen to bring down Fassad on common people ..............
> 
> I feel no sorry for these bloggers even if they rot away in some random place as missing person, just like I feel same for TTP butchers .........


There is a big difference between the two 'terrorists'. One uses violence and the other one doesn't. It's wrong to give out the same judgement for both of them.

You also need to understand that in this equation there is a heavy contribution of insecurity to deal with certain questions that is not addressed in the way you oversimplified the analogy.


----------



## PakSword

Zibago said:


> anti state activities wont be tolerated



Agree.. But what about anti Islam and blasphemous activities and posts?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Sandman

PakSword said:


> Agree.. But what about anti Islam and blasphemous activities and posts?


Let Allah handle that? they're ignorants i mean the more you arrest ppl like them more ppl like them will come up.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pak-marine

Zibago said:


> Let Mia cry like a baby she is not capable of holding a debate like grownups



and she is either a false flagger trying to have some fun or another little witch extremist who feeds on human blood


----------



## paritosh

crane berry said:


> The most basic of so called atheist is to defame every religion.


Atheism is about not believing in religions. An atheist is not mandated to propagate hated of religions.
If the culture of their country doesn't allow for critique and inter-faith dialogue, then they should abide by it is what I feel.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hold up

Bhensa...naam tao ki diyase hahaha


----------



## Kompromat

I'm not a hero. I just did what was right. Bhensa network had started to support separatism. 



PakSword said:


> If our agencies have abducted them, it's one of the many few actions they have taken in recent years..
> 
> I have heard that the pages are now being controlled by Elite Cyber Force? I am sure that within half an hour of servicing in drawing rooms of the safe houses, they vomited the usernames and passwords of these pages...
> 
> Very good action..
> 
> By the way, how @Horus has done in this regard? I want to know to consider him a hero...





PakSword said:


> If our agencies have abducted them, it's one of the many few actions they have taken in recent years..
> 
> I have heard that the pages are now being controlled by Elite Cyber Force? I am sure that within half an hour of servicing in drawing rooms of the safe houses, they vomited the usernames and passwords of these pages...
> 
> Very good action..
> 
> By the way, how @Horus has done in this regard? I want to know to consider him a hero...

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
7


----------



## PakSword

The Sandman said:


> Let Allah handle that? they're ignorants i mean the more you arrest ppl like them more ppl like them will come up.



Disagree. No one should be allowed to mock ANY religion, whether it is Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shia and whatever what not..

The moment someone mocks religion and religious figures, he should be immediately kicked out...



Horus said:


> I'm not a hero. I just did what was right. Bhensa network had started to support separatism.



Thanks for whatever you are doing...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zibago

The Sandman said:


> I know him for more than 1 year now and he never said anything like that. Yes he speaks against mullahs and there's nothing wrong with that.
> @django @Hell hound


If someone says atheists have right to exist like you and me if they remain peacefull law abiding citizens that doesnot mean i support them tolerating is different from supporting
https://defence.pk/threads/atheist-war-hero-serving-soldier.426265/
If they are not doing anything illegal who am i to pass judgements

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Sandman

PakSword said:


> Disagree. No one should be allowed to mock ANY religion, whether it is Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shia and whatever what not..
> 
> The moment someone mocks religion and religious figures, he should be immediately kicked out...


Thing is you won't be able to control those ignorants.


Zibago said:


> If someone says atheists have right to exist like you and me if they remain peacefull law abiding citizens that doesnot mean i support them tolerating is different from supporting
> https://defence.pk/threads/atheist-war-hero-serving-soldier.426265/
> If they are not doing anything illegal who am i to pass judgements


Agree.


----------



## Zibago

The Sandman said:


> I know him for more than 1 year now and he never said anything like that. Yes he speaks against mullahs and there's nothing wrong with that.
> @django @Hell hound


Mia nay kachi pi li hay iska kasor nahi hay

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pak-marine

Horus said:


> I tolerated him until he started to support BLF. That was a red line. @pak-marine



lets see how this will help ! i don't support such actions , you don't ban , arrest activists its against free speech and once again pakistan is in the world headlines for wrong reasons unfortunately thats how it looks in the international arena

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## M. Sarmad

The Sandman said:


> Let Allah handle that? they're ignorants i mean the more you arrest ppl like them more ppl like them will come up.



The Holy Qur'an does not prescribe any worldly punishment for committing blasphemy, but it does prescribe severe punishment for spreading Mischief/Fitna ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zibago

pak-marine said:


> and she is either a false flagger trying to have some fun or another little witch extremist who feeds on human blood


She is maarkhoor



pak-marine said:


> lets see how this will help ! i don't support such actions , you don't ban , arrest activists its against free speech and once again pakistan is in the world headlines for wrong reasons unfortunately thats how it looks in the international arena


India arrests people for not standing up during national anthem,Trump proposedan ammendment to criminalize flag burning no one gives a damn anymore

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## pak-marine

Zibago said:


> She is maarkhoor


oh nah yar i think we have discovered the actual badnam munni

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## SAS

Wow! You guys literally use the words 'liberal' and 'atheists' as a synonyms for 'scum of the earth'.

Radicalisation in your country is at an insane level. I hope your God helps your country!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kompromat

Subversion ≠ Free Speech. 



pak-marine said:


> lets see how this will help ! i don't support such actions , you don't ban , arrest activists its against free speech and once again pakistan is in the world headlines for wrong reasons unfortunately thats how it looks in the international arena

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Awan68

pak-marine said:


> Hey sunshine no need to loose it and go full
> Retard here is a small article
> 
> http://www.dawn.com/news/1308254/abducting-social-activists


Hey cupcake, im not new to dawn and its bullshit, so no need to shove articles by a libtdo sympathizing media house in my face, not new at this u knw?? I know exactly whats what and who represents who here in pakistan....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Spring Onion

T-123456 said:


> You have some strange atheists and secularists in your country.



 well all wana bessssssssssss are always strange rather confused because personally I feel the term strange is far powerful and better than confused.



paritosh said:


> That is not a good thing. If Islam is the truth, then it should be questioned time and again.
> Indoctrination is a society aiming low.



Islam encourages questioning but not insult and abuse.



crane berry said:


> What about PDF members who openly support the group who denounces Pakistani constitution and openly claims to be atheists.



Pakistani constitution can be debated but Insult and abuses cannot be debated.

You have mentioned few names here and called them what not but non of these members ever insulted Prophet (PBUH). So kindly reveal your old ID on forum and tell us your agenda

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Well.wisher

Once I was so much involved with these atheists , joined pages groups made friends . Some of them had a dirty relations with their mothers ,others also had some weird habits . 

I just thanked God for keeping me muslim . Prayed for their guidance but really they're very low character in real life .

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Nefarious

One side religious extremists attacking people for having certain or no religion and on the other atheist extremists attacking people with any kind of religion. So alike in certain aspects.

Any kind of extreme is bad. Both need to be curbed to keep unity in society. 

What you want is atheists/followers of religion to live and let live and mind their own damn business.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Hold up

If they have made fun and mocked Islam in any way please make sure that they rot in supermax prison. thanks

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## pak-marine

Awan68 said:


> Hey cupcake, im not new to dawn and its bullshit, so no need to shove articles by a libtdo sympathizing media house in my face, not new at this u knw?? I know exactly whats what and who represents who here in pakistan....


Babes dawn is a oldest and most authentic news paper of whereas you are no body .. whose word is more credible i dont need to say .. so in your post be realistic and rationale rather than going bonkers


----------



## Hell hound

Moonlight said:


> Remember I once said "desi liberals & Moom Batti Mafia" and you kinda disagreed with me. @Hell hound. So this is why I have not even a bit respect of these fake liberals. Thankfully he's exposed. These people are equally damaging Pakistan and playing an amazing job with portraying mullahs the "villains". So no one pays any attention to their evilest work in our society.


my disagreement with you was and still is on degrading the terms like desi liberals we live in pakistan of course every liberal born here will by birth be desi. just because we are pakistani/desi doesn't mean that we can't be aware or be liberal.does only western people have the right to hold liberal value or showing their sadness through burning some harmless candle.why is it when we do these thing we are labeled as pseudo/fake or moom batti mafia.
coming back to the topic he isn't exposed just now. everyone who hold true liberal values knew what he was doing(spreading the hate and anger) and never shared majority of his views.but same can't be said about majority of conservative people who still can't differentiate between true Islamic values and hate speech of local mullah.
not defending him but in a ways these people are still less damaging to pakistan than the mullahs.because the moment they start spreading hate and violence they will lose their following unlike mullahs who gain their powers through such tactics


----------



## Well.wisher

paritosh said:


> That is not a good thing. If Islam is the truth, then it should be questioned time and again.
> Indoctrination is a society aiming low.



They don't question bro .
There would very less sane atheists who'll question it properly . Their main agenda is just to defame islam and poison muslims for islam .
Trust me , I've spent my 3 years in their surrounding . Debated them , conversed with them , answered their all questions with sanity and knowledge . But still they are some of most stubborn creatures . They have decided in their heart that they won't accept any truth from Islam but only defame it .

And trust me , once I was also doubtful about islam when I started talking to them, they just said some weird things that hurt me about islam , it was in start but alhamdulillah when I joined the company of religious muslims , I realised atheists lied to me and were trying to trap me , I was saved from this ftnah. Alhamdulillah Allah saved my faith . 

And one thing more , you don't know how much dirty they're in their real lives . You seriously have no idea . If you knew it , you wouldn't even like to sit with them .

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Spring Onion

crane berry said:


> I have no agenda neither have any other ID. These members often sided by those who criticize Islam and Muslims.
> Dear if a person is non-believer but call himself Muslim and instead of Prophet Muhammad PBUH call prophet to impostor, this should also be consider abuse and blasphemy on this forum since it is in real life.



You do have another ID. So be realistic and don't lie. All those members whom you mentioned never insulted Prophet in anyway.

Those who denounce the finality of Prophethood of Last Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (PBUH), they are already declared non-Muslims.

Criticising Muslims is not a crime.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hell hound

Moonlight said:


> fake liberals


by the way can you state the points you think of as the defining factors between true and fake liberals.


----------



## Well.wisher

RealNapster said:


> ..
> ..
> Just an Hour ago i come to know all this drama due to my exams (thank God Mukh gaye) ... Then i searched a little bit about this matter and found a "this Post" from "Bhensa" page and i was like WTF MAN.
> ..
> 
> [
> 
> I am not labeling some one NON-Muslim or anti-Islam as i am not eligible to do so. But this is insane.
> ..
> ..



Actually what they've said in that screenshot about prophet saww would be only their 20% of their hate for him . 

They're much much much worse worse than this ... 

May Allah destroy them .

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Spring Onion

crane berry said:


> *Lanat ullah ilal Kazibeen ul Munafiqeen*
> 
> @Spring Onion BB I have gut feeling that you belong to that group who are running a web site Pakistani Atheists and Agnostics....Soon we will catch your ring leader* Khazrat Nakhuda*.



 I think you have some mental problem. who is this person in red?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Awan68

pak-marine said:


> Babes dawn is a oldest and most authentic news paper of whereas you are no body .. whose word is more credible i dont need to say .. so in your post be realistic and rationale rather than going bonkers


Dawn stopped bieng authentic a long time ago, i have no stomach to explain how and what dawn has become and who it speaks for now, a recent article where dawn seemed the mouth piece of the indian establishment is all that needs mention here for a delusional kid like u, and seriously catch up on ur vocabulary learn a few new words, seems like all u knw is "bonkers".. and are we to believe that the word of dawn is more credible and dawn is righteous and the state and isi are villians if they made these assholes disappear?? go and sleep it off buddy ur obviously drunk...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

Horus said:


> I'm not a hero. I just did what was right. Bhensa network had started to support separatism.



And you think that making a few persons disappear illegally will help stop any potential separatism?

Please let us all be clear: Trying to stop any alleged criminal activity by committing even worse illegalities is _never _going to be successful.

Let us also be very clear: I am not supporting any alleged wrong doing. I am supporting granting _all _citizens due process as specified by law.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Farah Sohail

The Sandman said:


> Let Allah handle that? they're ignorants i mean the more you arrest ppl like them more ppl like them will come up.



What??. It means ..they should be allowed to insult Islam on social meida? Whatever they believe..is their personal matter..as long as they dont indulge in blashphemous activities... Open blasphemy cant be tolerated...

Blasphemy is much more serious a crime than anti pak activities

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Farah Sohail

Horus said:


> I'm not a hero. I just did what was right. Bhensa network had started to support separatism.



I thik blasphemy/ insulting Holy figures openly on social media is much more serious a crime than seperatism or anti Pak activities.. They are free to believe what they want.its their personal matter....but insult of Holy Prophet(P.B.U.H) and Islam on social media should not be tolerated....They should have been nabbed long back when they indulged in anti Islam propaganda and blasphemy

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## RealNapster

Zibago said:


> This was daily occurance at bhensa thats why I hate it I got banned at bhensa for criticizing mqm
> @Moonlight @The Sandman @django @Musafir117




Hainn ? Banned for criticizing MQM ? I will reward you for criticizing MQM .


----------



## punit

pak-marine said:


> yeah i read about him ... he is declared wajid ul anything who was it.. any one of the few bloggers who were picked up ?


while Lal Mosque Mulla is roaming free !


----------



## Farah Sohail

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> And you think that making a few persons disappear illegally will help stop any potential separatism?
> 
> Please let us all be clear*: Trying to stop any alleged criminal activity by committing even worse illegalities is never going to be successful.*
> 
> Let us also be very clear: I am not supporting any alleged wrong doing. I am supporting granting _all _citizens due process as specified by law.



When will you stand up for rights of people in Guantanamo bay?

@bold... Look who is talking? A person who supports all inhuman crimes of the mighty USA..... Should i remind you some activities of your beloved USA? Where were those weapons of mass destruction as claimed by USA? And for which a country like Iraq was destablised? How many ppl were killed there?

Enough with your lecturing......God... Your hypocrisy is mind boggling

@Horus i think time has come for members like him to be permanently banned.. No more waiting and watching

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## punit

Farah Sohail said:


> I thik blasphemy/ insulting Holy figures openly on social media is much more serious a crime than seperatism or anti Pak activities.. They are free to believe what they want.its their personal matter....but insult of Holy Prophet(P.B.U.H) and Islam on social media should not be tolerated....They should have been nabbed long back when they indulged in anti Islam propaganda and blasphemy


this one takes the cake !



crane berry said:


> He is just roaming but you made Modi P.M of India.


welcome back to forum.


----------



## Spring Onion

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> And you think that making a few persons disappear illegally will help stop any potential separatism?
> 
> Please let us all be clear: Trying to stop any alleged criminal activity by committing even worse illegalities is _never _going to be successful.
> 
> Let us also be very clear: I am not supporting any alleged wrong doing. I am supporting granting _all _citizens due process as specified by law.



No one is supporting disappearance of anyone here. All we are debating that these atheists or whatever they are, they have no right to Insult Islam and if they had committed Blasphemy then they have to face the law.

They are accused of posting material on their page is blasphemous. Being Muslims we have the right to criticize and condemn their abusive language for Islam and Last Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zibago

RealNapster said:


> Hainn ? Banned for criticizing MQM ? I will reward you for criticizing MQM .


They had soft corner for anp,pmln,mqm and pp they mocked all who criticized them

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## T-123456

Spring Onion said:


> You do have another ID. So be realistic and don't lie. All those members whom you mentioned never insulted Prophet in anyway.
> 
> Those who denounce the finality of Prophethood of Last Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (PBUH), they are already declared non-Muslims.
> 
> Criticising Muslims is not a crime.


And then there are people like crane berry.
Same thing happening in my country now.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## malik_qasim

one phrase, i believe shows the mentality of our nation, as the world says, 
stick and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me. 
and in a semi tribal society, like ours we say, 
we will take out our sticks and pick stones the moment your words hurt me.. 
well as it seems to be the collective wisdom of our entire nation that words do more damage then broken bones and cut off ears and noses, such things are justifiable. 
where dead rule beyond graves, living will always have a hard time living..
that the story of our society..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zibago

Spring Onion said:


> You do have another ID. So be realistic and don't lie. All those members whom you mentioned never insulted Prophet in anyway.
> 
> Those who denounce the finality of Prophethood of Last Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (PBUH), they are already declared non-Muslims.
> 
> Criticising Muslims is not a crime.


He is overload

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RealNapster

friendly_troll96 said:


> since paks need pravarish on debate as you put it, which i second, who's gonna do that and how? we're 200 million remember? life can't be put on hold until the ideal situation when you have everything you need.



it's the duty of society. but hamare society he mature nahe. islye ye extra burden b mere mutabik Parents par he aata hay.




friendly_troll96 said:


> if you just came to know that us paks don't know how to debate, you're late. and if you knew this before, and wanted to tell the world now, you're late..again!



I know it from previous 5-6 years. but the irony is, i can't do anything about it. whenever i go in a debate with a person, i ask him to put his question in front of me in a lower tone. and i will answer him. then i will ask question's and he have to answer. at start the cooporate. but when they get that they can't win, that's what they do...

start repeating a single sentence again and again..
Increase there tone volume.
interrupt me in-between when i am answering. 
and finally give me a huge laugh (assuming) that they have already won the debate.


----------



## RealNapster

Well.wisher said:


> Actually what they've said in that screenshot about prophet saww would be only their 20% of their hate for him .





Suddenly it seems to me that i came from a cave. because i don't know shit about any of this activity. exams ne to kahe ka nahe choora. even mujhy kal ye b nae pata tha kay jumma hay. islye jume ki namaz b reh gae. 



Well.wisher said:


> May Allah destroy them .



May Allah give them Hidayaa (hidayat) ..


----------



## Spring Onion

crane berry said:


> Ahha got you, You are claiming to be Muslim but having a cross in DP with signature saying Muslim kills other what a fine example of hypocrisy.



NVM there is a saying ignorance is bliss but I believe Ignorance is a big curse. So please either stop behaving like an Ignorant person or go and read the entire Forum with your new ID if you failed to read with your earlier ID, to know why I had put this DP.

If you do not want to educate yourself then I would repeat never bother NVM.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RealNapster

crane berry said:


> He is laying...here on PDF Zibago and Imran Khan used to support atheists and agnostics. But I believe after the abduction of their leaders they already wet their pants and now trying hard to prove themselves good Muslims and Pakistani.



If a person is atheist i have no objection with that. Everyone is free to have his thoughts. but his thoughts should not "abuse" with my Prophet (the prophet of 98% Pakistani population). that's the only think i wan't from all those Atheists, Ahmadi brothers, Hindu brothers and all of them.


----------



## M. Sarmad

Farah Sohail said:


> @Horus i think time has come for members like him to be permanently banned.. No more waiting and watching



I do not agree with most of what he writes/believes in, but he is one of the most sane posters here on PDF ....

This is a discussion forum, and if you want to ban all those who hold dissenting views, or follow ideology that you find offensive, what is the purpose of having such forums ? ... There are a lot of Right-wing propaganda pages out there ... Why not join them instead if you can't stand criticism/dissent ?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Spring Onion

Zibago said:


> He is overload



whoever he is or she is just don't bother. Frustration and lack of argument and reasoning most of the times kill a person and his abilities to think even irrationally.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zibago

crane berry said:


> He is laying...here on PDF Zibago and Imran Khan used to support atheists and agnostics. But I believe after the abduction of their leaders they already wet their pants and now trying hard to prove themselves good Muslims and Pakistani.


Hahaha a baboon leagi is questioning my Pakistaniyat lol

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RealNapster

Zibago said:


> They had soft corner for anp,pmln,mqm and pp they mocked all who criticized them



whattttttt ? they support ANP ?  Fcuk you Bhensa. deal with it.


----------



## RealNapster

crane berry said:


> I have no problem with that but they support all those who mock Islam.



well. i am unaware of the facts. so i am unable to put my POW on this. sorry.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zibago

RealNapster said:


> whattttttt ? they support ANP ?  Fcuk you Bhensa. deal with it.


He called them genuine pashtun left wing movement destroyed by army and isi

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## haviZsultan

When we ourselves can play god by deciding who commits blasphemy or not then what is the need for religion? We have decided we are Allah ourselves... isn't that a problem? Others sentiments should not be hurt but some of these pages I don't see as having conducted blasphemy. Their only crime is condemning terrorists and terrorism worldwide. Though they are sympathetic to the hostile and evil policies of baba America they are part of a thinking system in Pakistan that is unique.

We have to stop being so sensitive. A lot of what is being called blasphemy is critical debate, not blasphemy. This same logic led to the killing of Salman Taseer for questioning a man made law known as the blasphemy law in Pakistan. In the prophets time no person was killed for blasphemy even though there were thousands if not millions of opposing jews, christians or pagans. Stop being so sensitive people. We love Islam as much as you do.

And stop attacking @Spring Onion. You are going to declare people kaffir now? This is how terrorism starts.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## haviZsultan

Zibago said:


> He called them genuine pashtun left wing movement destroyed by army and isi


I personally feel we should let them talk. Patriotic Pakistanis like us are not so weak that we can't shut them up in a debate. At least they won't have the discrimination against us card to play. Lets not make martyrs out of tyrants... reminds me of the assasination of ZAB and how that tyrant became a hero overnight.


----------



## RealNapster

Zibago said:


> He called them *genuine pashtun* left wing movement destroyed by army and isi




 ....... what ?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


----------



## Zibago

haviZsultan said:


> When we ourselves can play god by deciding who commits blasphemy or not then what is the need for religion? We have decided we are Allah ourselves... isn't that a problem? Others sentiments should not be hurt but some of these pages I don't see as having conducted blasphemy. Their only crime is condemning terrorists and terrorism worldwide. Though they are sympathetic to the hostile and evil policies of baba America they are part of a thinking system in Pakistan that is unique.
> 
> We have to stop being so sensitive. A lot of what is being called blasphemy is critical debate, not blasphemy. This same logic led to the killing of Salman Taseer for questioning a man made law known as the blasphemy law in Pakistan. In the prophets time no person was killed for blasphemy even though there were thousands if not millions of opposing jews, christians or pagans. Stop being so sensitive people. We love Islam as much as you do.
> 
> And stop attacking @Spring Onion. You are going to declare people kaffir now? This is how terrorism starts.


Salman Taseer did nothing wrong but bhensa mocked Pakistan,s creation,praised terrorists,mocked dead Pakistani soldiers and civilians and shared offensive blasphemous content no matter from which perspective you look they were clearly wrong

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zibago

RealNapster said:


> ....... what ?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


His page was bla propoganda machinehe even shared zee news reports :-//
Posted fake pics and claimed that they were dead balochis

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Spring Onion

crane berry said:


> Bhensa page seems to be convert to Islam even their supporters now talking sense
> .



Why the evidence was destroyed ? what shittt they posted earlier should have been preserved and presented before the concerned departments.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## haviZsultan

crane berry said:


> Bhensa page seems to be convert to Islam even their supporters now talking sense Good to see military boot hit very hard.
> 
> 
> Another one came out in support of Atheists in the name of free speech.


What logic? I am a supporter of atheists because I condemn mullahs? A lot of people here have no other thing to do other than judge the religion of others. Also 50 posts and you have given the site nothing but fitna. 

Also if you want to curtail free speech it goes both ways. Are we muslims ready to stop insulting Ahmedis? Lets not go into pointless infighting. Debate is what this site is made for.


----------



## Zibago

crane berry said:


> He called blasphemy law his feces you moron he did nothing even openly call it Kala Qanoon for your info 34 Muslim nations have same law as we have.


Calling a qanoon black is blasphemy :-// 
Rip logic and reason



haviZsultan said:


> What logic? I am a supporter of atheists because I condemn mullahs? A lot of people here have no other thing to do other than judge the religion of others. Also 50 posts and you have given the site nothing but fitna.
> 
> Also if you want to curtail free speech it goes both ways. Are we muslims ready to stop insulting Ahmedis? Lets not go into pointless infighting. Debate is what this site is made for.


He is multi of old member


----------



## SAS

Well.wisher said:


> Once I was so much involved with these atheists , joined pages groups made friends . _*Some of the atheists had a dirty relations with their mothers*_ ,others also had some weird habits .
> 
> I just thanked God for keeping me muslim . Prayed for their guidance but really they're very low character in real life .



I actually don't believe what I'm reading! I'm an atheist and I'm deeply offended by your ignorance!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RealNapster

Zibago said:


> His page was bla propoganda machinehe even shared zee news reports :-//
> Posted fake pics and claimed that they were dead balochis



So it was like a lall masjid situation............................. Good rid.


----------



## haviZsultan

Zibago said:


> Salman Taseer did nothing wrong but bhensa mocked Pakistan,s creation,praised terrorists,mocked dead Pakistani soldiers and civilians and shared offensive blasphemous content no matter from which perspective you look they were clearly wrong


I don't know much about the activities of bhensa... but if the world is condemning them they clearly did something wrong.


----------



## Zibago

Spring Onion said:


> Why the evidence was destroyed ? what shittt they posted earlier should have been preserved and presented before the concerned departments.


The old page is gone the new page is not related to old page 
I saw old page and was banned on it


----------



## Farah Sohail

Azlan Haider said:


> I do not agree with most of what he writes/believes in, but he is one of the most sane posters here on PDF ....
> 
> This is a discussion forum, and if you want to ban all those who hold dissenting views, or follow ideology that you find offensive, what is the purpose of having such forums ? ... There are a lot of Right-wing propaganda pages out there ... Why not join them instead if you can't stand criticism/dissent ?




I asked for his ban, not for his dissenting views but because of his double standards and hypocrisy.. Whatever US does is fine, but if Pak does same is wrong....

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## RealNapster

crane berry said:


> He called blasphemy law his feces you moron he did nothing even openly call it Kala Qanoon for your info 34 Muslim nations have same law as we have.



Hear me out. Salman taseer did nothing wrong. he only questioned the "wrong" use of blasphemy law. it was US Pakistani's who miss-interpreted him.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## haviZsultan

There


crane berry said:


> *I am searching for a female* married Orakzai contact living in Malaysia whom I met on Pashtun forums. You quit pashtunsforums angry. I do not remember your name but if you are the one please contact me immediately.
> 
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/bhensa-has-been-controlled.472407/page-16#ixzz4VjxMrlvL


 There is no point talking to a troll who will get himself banned eventually for insulting members of the site. No one is supporting blasphemy here. We just want an equal Pakistan. But it is true freedom has a limit. If bhensa truly was involved in this they deserve punishment, but from the law, not vigilantes.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Spring Onion

Zibago said:


> The old page is gone the new page is not related to old page
> I saw old page and was banned on it



I really did not know about them and their page seriously until the disappearance news so that is why I am saying their old page and what shitttt as few of you have mentioned and stated they had posted should be enough to shut those who are saying the bhensaaaas were exercising free speech. How insulting Islam is free speech?


----------



## Spring Onion

SAS said:


> I actually don't believe what I'm reading! I'm an atheist and I'm deeply offended by your ignorance!



The member was talking about few of them whom this member interacted. I think his or her statement was not about all.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## M. Sarmad

Farah Sohail said:


> I asked for his ban, not for his dissenting views but because of his double standards and hypocrisy.. Whatever US does is fine, but if Pak does same is wrong....



He is not the only one here who defends the illegal acts of his country/government/LEAs ... You, and a lot of others here, are doing exactly the same ....


Talk about double standards ?


----------



## RealNapster

crane berry said:


> Check the FIR copy



Why ? it was us guyz who wrote it. so yes FIR also got some sort of crap and jazbaat in it. 



crane berry said:


> his statements about the law.



I have listened him that's why putting my Point of View. and Yes. he did nothing wrong.


----------



## Well.wisher

RealNapster said:


> Suddenly it seems to me that i came from a cave. because i don't know shit about any of this activity. exams ne to kahe ka nahe choora. even mujhy kal ye b nae pata tha kay jumma hay. islye jume ki namaz b reh gae.
> 
> ..



It's good if you keep yourself away from such things . 
It's waste of time and energy . I've been with them 3 years but all was futile . 

You should repent to Allah swt for missing your prayer and try to offer all prayers no matter what , it doesn't take much time . Allah is forgiving . 


RealNapster said:


> May Allah give them Hidayaa (hidayat) ..



Hidayat is for those jo is qaabil hon . 
If you tell them may Allah give hidayah, they'll mock like 'Allah ny hidayah di ha tab hi to islam chora '. 

Actually they're weird , they spend their all life only to defame islam . They've only this one purpose .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## RealNapster

Well.wisher said:


> It's good if you keep yourself away from such things .
> It's waste of time and energy . I've been with them 3 years but all was futile .



I was debating from previous 6 year's with People. now i just sit down and enjoy the weather. 



Well.wisher said:


> You should repent to Allah swt for missing your prayer and try to offer all prayers no matter what , it doesn't take much time . Allah is forgiving .





Just like ,what my elder sister said. 



Well.wisher said:


> If you tell them may Allah give hidayah, they'll mock like 'Allah ny hidayah di ha tab hi to islam chora '.
> 
> Actually they're weird , they spend their all life only to defame islam . They've only this one purpose .



Well. in that case we can only ask Allah to give us riddance from this fitna. Asking for someone's death is too much.


----------



## Imran Khan

i am watching it with pop corn  again situation forced me to shut my mouth .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Musafir117

crane berry said:


> From this point stop quoting me since all those who support blasphemers I have no respect and Today I am going to report @Zibago aka Sheikh Asim to multipal persons who will take care of him very soon.
> 
> @Zibago now expect some purisrar banday very soon. C YA
> 
> @Jonah Arthur
> See what I said about him turned out to be 100% truth.


Why not you go and FYS and come back when your alcohol level get down? @Zibago filth come back again after ban twice he is hard core anti miniorty of Pakistan be Christians Shia Ahmdi whatever @WebMaster control this mental case who kick out in past after five dozen galiyan to PDF admin.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## RealNapster

crane berry said:


> From this point stop quoting me since all those who support blasphemers I have no respect and Today I am going to report @Zibago aka Sheikh Asim to multipal persons who will take care of him very soon.



You have your Point and i respect your thoughts. I have my own and you should respect it. 




crane berry said:


> @Zibago now expect some purisrar banday very soon. C YA




So you gonna send FIA, ISI and MI to his door ? @Zibago bhai underground ho jaao... bachna mushkil hay he have very high connections. he even know TAHIR SHAH.. (the man kinds angel) 

Well. i am out. keep it up.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Musafir117

Imran Khan said:


> i am watching it with pop corn  again situation forced me to shut my mouth .


Why shutting mouth he is full tunn party khob guzre gi jo


----------



## Well.wisher

RealNapster said:


> I was debating from previous 6 year's with People. now i just sit down and enjoy the weather.
> 
> .



No , now you only trololololol .. 


RealNapster said:


> Just like ,what my elder sister said.
> 
> 
> h.



I'm also your younger sis then 


RealNapster said:


> Well. in that case we can only ask Allah to give us riddance from this fitna. Asking for someone's death is too much.



Woh toh sahi ha but they've really messed up their lives .

I know an atheist guy who left islam because of mistreatment of his father with mother and I font know how he found all resort to islam to blame it nd leave it .. 
They need psychiatrists . 

There isn't only reason and intellect that made them atheist , it has to do more with their personal lives .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## RealNapster

Imran Khan said:


> i am watching it with pop corn  again situation forced me to shut my mouth .



I don't have any Pop corn's.


----------



## Imran Khan

Musafir117 said:


> Why shutting mouth he is full tunn party khob guzre gi jo


i quit drinking sir .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

RealNapster said:


> I don't have any Pop corn's.


buy it from store .BTW i purchased a tin of corn all you need is pressure cooker and one table spoon cooking oil . warm the oil and put corn on it . cover it for 2 to 3 minutes here you have fresh pop corns

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RealNapster

Well.wisher said:


> No , now you only trololololol ..



Just flow with the wind.... 



Well.wisher said:


> I'm also your younger sis then



You can assume that. 



Well.wisher said:


> Woh toh sahi ha but they've really messed up their lives .
> 
> I know an atheist guy who left islam because of mistreatment of his father with mother and I font know how he found all resort to islam to blame it nd leave it ..
> They need psychiatrists .
> 
> There isn't only reason and intellect that made them atheist , it has to do more with their personal lives .



Well. Speaking in the same flow...

All the Feminists, Chauvinists, LGBT's , desi secular need "Psychiatrists" .


----------



## PakSword

Spring Onion said:


> All those members whom you mentioned never insulted Prophet in anyway.



I think he/ she is saying that they supported those who insult religion, although I haven't come across any of such posts.. 

@crane berry Can you point out some of the posts??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RealNapster

Imran Khan said:


> buy it from store .BTW i purchased a tin of corn all you need is pressure cooker and one table spoon cooking oil . warm the oil and put corn on it . cover it for 2 to 3 minutes here you have fresh pop corns




hahaha..... Source kay saath recipe muft muft muft... i like that.

wese ye jis tarha Pakistan kay halaat ja rahay hay. definitely i will need a "borri" of corn.


----------



## Imran Khan

RealNapster said:


> hahaha..... Source kay saath recipe muft muft muft... i like that.
> 
> wese ye jis tarha Pakistan kay halaat ja rahay hay. definitely i will need a "borri" of corn.


yeah i am watching it with no comments sir

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Well.wisher

SAS said:


> I actually don't believe what I'm reading! I'm an atheist and I'm deeply offended by your ignorance!



They had , those ex muslims . . I'm not blaming you but those atheists had .

Some left religion to full fill their desires , they didn't like restrictions . 

Other found some weird facts like rights of women , heaven , hell, Lgbt etc etc ., that really sickens one mind .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RealNapster

Imran Khan said:


> yeah i am watching it with no comments sir



I am going to follow that. i mean' your way


----------



## The Sandman

Farah Sohail said:


> What??. It means ..they should be allowed to insult Islam on social meida? Whatever they believe..is their personal matter..as long as they dont indulge in blashphemous activities... Open blasphemy cant be tolerated...
> 
> Blasphemy is much more serious a crime than anti pak activities


You're only gonna make them hero Muslims villain and Islam as a tyrannical religion in front of the whole world.
http://www.islamicity.org/4274/is-blaspheme-punishable-by-death-in-islam/


----------



## Musafir117

Imran Khan said:


> i quit drinking sir .


:hug hug: that's a great news^o^ Good luck bro


----------



## airmarshal

What is this thread about? Who are these bloggers? I m trying to piece together what the issue is.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PakSword

Spring Onion said:


> Being Muslims we have the right to criticize and condemn their abusive language for Islam and Last Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).



And then? If they don't stop insulting our beloved prophet (PBUH)? Should we just turn into cry babies?



crane berry said:


> @Zibago aka Sheikh Asim



Lolz... Is it a joke?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Well.wisher

https://www.google.com.pk/url?q=htt...iQshNA&usg=AFQjCNFQndIuO83swcbnP4j59jcXsqNHxw

This group should be banned too , so called free thinkers .
Ab in ki dar k mare Jan nikal rhi

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PakSword

People don't understand that protecting ideological boundaries of Pakistan is equally important..

Pakistan was separated from India on the basis of two nation theory. There was a reason that people voted for "Muslim" Leagues demand of a separate state for Muslims where they could follow their religion without any hurdle or fear of persecution.

There is a reason Quaid e Azam and Allama Iqbal defended Ghazi Alam Deen Shaheed despite knowing he was the killer of a blasphemer. So much clarity how our Quaid would have behaved had he seen such material circulating on social media today. These people should not even call themselves Pakistanis as the founders of this country sided with a killer of a blasphemer.

Don't know why some Pakistanis only want to defend the physical boundaries, not the ideological sanctity. They make huge noise when someone tears apart the copies of constitution, but say that it is ok to not condemn if someone disrespects Quran.. For them Pakistani flag is more important than Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). They have forgotten that Pakistan is actually Islam.. Either they should go back in time and "enlighten" Quaid and Allama Iqbal, and all other leaders that what they were standing for was in fact a mirage. Real objective was to implement atheism and free speech even if it had resulted in insulting religions. They would have immediately told these supporters of scumbags that if this was the case, why strive for a separate country? Lets continue to live in Mutahida Hindustan.

Free speech doesn't mean that you start insulting prophets and religion and when you get nabbed, start crying foul. Pakistan is fortunately Islami Jamhoria Pakistan. The constitution gives rights to all the minorities but also the laws have been made to punish those who insult Islam. And these laws are the laws of land, based on the true ideology of Pakistan. Anyone who has any problem should just leave or keep their mouths shut.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Imran Khan

crane berry said:


> No just check his posts even on this thread you will come to know that he is working against blasphemy law.
> 
> 
> Few months back you belongs to that group and then you became afraid of something and posted a thread about your new found faith and Pakistaniyat .


may be i have early warning system like AWACS. i am enjoying old foes and friends fight

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

crane berry said:


> Jab Laghi P@tnay, parsaad lagey batnay.


please complete it i did not got it yet

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

crane berry said:


> Yes and only time will tell you what happened to him I believe only one littar would be enough for him but it is upto authorities k kitnay marnay hien.
> 
> 
> You now what I mean...


i am innocent sir please explain it


----------



## mrrehan

I wish this process of unveiling *Bulls* keeping going on and on and faster.


----------



## PakSword

The Sandman said:


> You're only gonna make them hero Muslims villain and Islam as a tyrannical religion in front of the whole world.



Yaar The Sandman.. if we don't do anything, we will become baighairat.. Seriously...

Just like we respect our flag and our constitution (that is also based on Islam) and file cases against anyone who disrespects them, we will have to stand up for our ideology.. for which Pakistan was formed.

We have laws that say that if you mock people, they can sue you... Similarly, if someone mocks the person who we consider most important, he should be tried according to the law..

@crane berry

What I suspect that these morons (bhensa admins) aren't abducted by anyone.. They wanted to highlight an issue in front of the new US administration and other world powers that Pakistan is not a safe country for a non-Muslim and just like what Burma does to Muslims, Pakistani authorities do to its minorities.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## RealNapster

crane berry said:


> Yes and only time will tell you what happened to him I believe only one littar would be enough for him but it is upto authorities k kitnay marnay hien.



we have seen a lot of " inside persons" here. you are not the first one here to claim connection in Intelligence. i would say... bring it on. and in next 5 days if i didn't see what you promised "happened" . then you should better leave this forum for the glory of your "self respect".... 

At 19th Jan i will quote both of You and @Zibago .. and let's see what happens. @Zibago are you In ?


----------



## PakSword

crane berry said:


> My friend told me authorities got alerted but someone leak this info to them. But they got succeeded to nab one or two persons.



I think only one got nabbed.

The rest are all underground.. The fourth one surely is underground.. .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The Sandman

PakSword said:


> Yaar The Sandman.. if we don't do anything, we will become baighairat.. Seriously...
> 
> Just like we respect our flag and our constitution (that is also based on Islam) and file cases against anyone who disrespects them, we will have to stand up for our ideology.. for which Pakistan was formed.
> 
> We have laws that say that if you mock people, they can sue you... Similarly, if someone mocks the person who we consider most important, he should be tried according to the law..
> 
> @crane berry
> 
> What I suspect that these morons (bhensa admins) aren't abducted by anyone.. They wanted to highlight an issue in front of the new US administration and other world powers that Pakistan is not a safe country for a non-Muslim and just like what Burma does to Muslims, Pakistani authorities do to its minorities.


Pakistan was meant to be a secular state yr and that link tells us about blasphemy so no we aren't gonna become beghairat if some jahil is mocking our religion than ignore him Allah will take care of him but agencies should present them in court and hang them for anti Pak activities.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## RealNapster

crane berry said:


> OK challenge accepted from my side.



good. then let meet at Jan 19 on this forum.


----------



## PakSword

The Sandman said:


> Pakistan was meant to be a secular state yr



Here I beg to differ with you respectfully..

Remember who Quaid was standing with when Ghazi Alam Deen Shaheed killed that bast ard?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The Sandman

PakSword said:


> Here I beg to differ with you respectfully..
> 
> Remember who Quaid was standing with when Ghazi Alam Deen Shaheed killed that bast ard?


I knew this was gonna happen and i know it's a long debate but there are quotes of Mr. Jinnah that proves he wanted a secular Pakistan so lets just end it here.


----------



## PakSword

Also, its constitution says that it is an Islami Jamhooriya.. 

Yes, what Quaid wanted that all minorities will be given equal rights in our society.. 

This is the reason we have reserved seats for minorities..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Spring Onion

airmarshal said:


> What is this thread about? Who are these bloggers? I m trying to piece together what the issue is.



There was some FB page by the name of bhensa who's admins and some of the members or those who were running the content on that page had gone missing. The page is accused of running/posting blasphemous content. So when these people gone missing many circles and NGOs have started a campaign against Agencies and Army and the State that they have 'picked' up these men.

The issue is getting grave enough that even US had taken notice of it and there was some concerned aired by their department as claimed by a Pakistani TV few days back.

The issue becoming a hot topic that few days back a person by the name of Nasir Jibran (you can google a man who is famous or infamouse lolzz don't know how to explain) for his views on religion or religious people, he demanded that admins of PDF should be arrested for speaking against people of bhensa page.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RealNapster

crane berry said:


> Sure.
> 
> But where is @Zibago
> 
> Disappeared so sooon



You just Don't get yourself banned for 5 days dear. stay calm and chill.


----------



## YeBeWarned

We Need This guy to deal with Such bloggers ..


----------



## Zibago

Spring Onion said:


> I really did not know about them and their page seriously until the disappearance news so that is why I am saying their old page and what shitttt as few of you have mentioned and stated they had posted should be enough to shut those who are saying the bhensaaaas were exercising free speech. How insulting Islam is free speech?


https://defence.pk/threads/facebook...after-government-request.468749/#post-9044536
https://defence.pk/threads/pakistani-desi-liberals.445661/page-5#post-8607660
I spotted this page way back in 2015 i am happy that they are being taken care of

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## RealNapster

crane berry said:


> But where is @Zibago
> 
> Disappeared so sooon
> 
> I will come again as soon as wajsal logged in he will ban me instantly but I will come again on 19th Jan to tell.



acha acha teak hay.


----------



## Spring Onion

PakSword said:


> And then? If they don't stop insulting our beloved prophet (PBUH)? Should we just turn into cry babies?



If they live in another country you cannot do anything. If they are in Pakistan then our country has a law which deals with these cases.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zibago

RealNapster said:


> we have seen a lot of " inside persons" here. you are not the first one here to claim connection in Intelligence. i would say... bring it on. and in next 5 days if i didn't see what you promised "happened" . then you should better leave this forum for the glory of your "self respect"....
> 
> At 19th Jan i will quote both of You and @Zibago .. and let's see what happens. @Zibago are you In ?


On 19th i will be waiting in Islamabad

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The Sandman

Zibago said:


> On 19th i will be waiting in Islamabad


Took a screen shot of that post aur reminder bhi lga diya hai 19 ka

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## pak-marine

Horus said:


> Subversion ≠ Free Speech.


By kidnapping these activists now those who have little sympathies with such organizations will support them even more .. dont u think ? When and how does this ever end ? Precisely why I dont support strong arming activists


----------



## Imran Khan

Zibago said:


> On 19th i will be waiting in Islamabad





The Sandman said:


> Took a screen shot of that post aur reminder bhi lga diya hai 19 ka


 kids play started  19 ko forum per chitrol honi chayee . but sadly its just an ID make it new and forget all the story  @crane berry

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The Sandman

Imran Khan said:


> kids play started  19 ko forum per chitrol honi chayee . but sadly its just an ID make it new and forget all the story  @crane berry


It's gonna be a lot of fun though

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Imran Khan

The Sandman said:


> It's gonna be a lot of fun though


no its not he has many IDs


----------



## The Sandman

Imran Khan said:


> no its not he has many IDs


I know but you think that matters anymore? it didn't took us a min to recognize him.


----------



## Zibago

RealNapster said:


> You just Don't get yourself banned for 5 days dear. stay calm and chill.


He will be gone today

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

crane berry said:


> Putar tu Saudi mien hai direct sar dhad se..apni bacha kr uski agay matt karo isloo boy anyways got some visits.


do te do ?

oyee yaar her kisi ko wohi dhamki diya ker gher se uthany wali wo achi lagti hai

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zibago

Imran Khan said:


> kids play started  19 ko forum per chitrol honi chayee . but sadly its just an ID make it new and forget all the story  @crane berry


Pdf ka altaf hussain


----------



## Zibago

Imran Khan said:


> do te do ?
> 
> oyee yaar her kisi ko wohi dhamki diya ker gher se uthany wali wo achi lagti hai


bawa ji apko to.pata hay na kachi peney ka side-effect


----------



## RealNapster

Zibago said:


> On 19th i will be waiting in Islamabad



Bring it on. 

@crane berry ..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

Zibago said:


> bawa ji apko to.pata hay na kachi peney ka side-effect


nhi us se banda thora impress ho jata hai . he is mu ex neighbor i have sold my property and home from that place


----------



## Imran Khan

crane berry said:


> Beta @Zibago I am not coming but even before 19th some purisrar banday will make visit to you or they may call you to explain some issues.
> 
> 
> You mean gharda that you smoke during Atheist meeting.


ustaad wohi dhamki please please na  aik bar bus tujhy bhensy ki kasam

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pak-marine

crane berry said:


> So cat came out from hiding so finally accepted that you support Atheists or you are one of them.


Whats your issue with what he believes who atr


crane berry said:


> From this point stop quoting me since all those who support blasphemers I have no respect and Today I am going to report @Zibago aka Sheikh Asim to multipal persons who will take care of him very soon.
> 
> @Zibago now expect some purisrar banday very soon. C YA
> 
> @Jonah Arthur
> See what I said about him turned out to be 100% truth.


Thats an open threat now after me he is threatening another member insane it is .. what is this place turning into he should be reported to respective authorities for making threats to members posting on this forum he is a potential terrorist and should be apprehended asap !!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pak-marine

Musafir117 said:


> Why not you go and FYS and come back when your alcohol level get down? @Zibago filth come back again after ban twice he is hard core anti miniorty of Pakistan be Christians Shia Ahmdi whatever @WebMaster control this mental case who kick out in past after five dozen galiyan to PDF admin.


Fcktard is a terrorist mods should show responsibility and report him to relevant authority, this extremist monkey is getting out of control now

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RealNapster

Imran Khan said:


> oyee yaar her kisi ko wohi dhamki diya ker gher se uthany wali wo achi lagti hai







Zibago said:


> Pdf ka altaf hussain



 ..



crane berry said:


> Beta @Zibago I am not coming but even before 19th some purisrar banday will make visit to you or they may call you to explain some issues.
> 
> 
> You mean gharda that you smoke during Atheist meeting.
> 
> 
> Beta tashreef aisi ho jaye ghi na surgeon bhi repair nahien kr paye gha...ulta late kr Billi ki pics dekhna and I am not joking.



@The Sandman bhai is Post # 323 ka b aik screenshot lo. 



Imran Khan said:


> aik bar bus tujhy bhensy ki kasam



ad to dene he pary ge.


----------



## Imran Khan

crane berry said:


> Beta jab teri P@ti thi tou born again Muslaman wali thread post ki thi na. yaad hai I have small kid youthiye banday hien sab k sab.
> 
> 
> Ohh boss D.K go to authorities and report me. Tujhe hi andar kr dyen gey wesy tou atheist hay ya agnostic.


bhai hum to aaj bhi wohi hain MAARY BANDY . hamari kya majal hai ? . but wo dhamki diya karo wo suit kerti hai


----------



## The Sandman

RealNapster said:


> @The Sandman bhai is Post # 323 ka b aik screenshot lo.


done

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RealNapster

The Sandman said:


> done



Please share. in case aap foat ho gaye to 






Allah na karay..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The Sandman

RealNapster said:


> Please share. in case aap foat ho gaye to


u mean share? ok

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Sandman

@RealNapster

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## RealNapster

The Sandman said:


> u mean share? ok



yes. My text dictionary was on "Indian mode" sukla g .


----------



## pak-marine

crane berry said:


> Ohh boss D.K go to authorities and report me. Tujhe hi andar kr dyen gey wesy tou atheist hay ya agnostic.



ur isis daeshi kind is well Known to the world .. go visit the goat of baghdad they may assign you a mission other than cleaning toilets


----------



## The Sandman

RealNapster said:


> yes. My text dictionary was on "Indian mode" sukla g .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RealNapster

The Sandman said:


> View attachment 368363
> View attachment 368364
> @RealNapster


----------



## Imran Khan

crane berry said:


> Zibago k gham mien.
> 
> @F.O.X
> 
> Your sorry still pending which you promise me on APS student missing thread.
> 
> You did the background check on me as you have sources claimed by you in case yes then tell other about my links and background.


bus ker de ab bhai . its internet not a tribal war . log out hoa kam khatam . why so much of this ? you are over acting now .take it easy bro

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RealNapster

crane berry said:


> @F.O.X
> 
> Your sorry still pending which you promise me on APS student missing thread.



So you are a person who joined PDF previous thursday. but @F.O.X owe you sorry for APS student missing thread. Doesn't make sense. Which mean's you have multiple ID's here.

Shows your credibility. How many faces will you need to cover your original face ? 

@Zibago , @The Sandman ..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CBU-105

but people in Pakistan will still be vulnerable to being exposed to other blasphemous content (there is a lot of it out there) on FB, youtube, and the interwebs in general, right ?


----------



## Imran Khan

crane berry said:


> No I am serious about reporting blasphemers and anti blasphemy law activist.
> 
> 
> Everybody knows me dear never tried to hide myself.
> 
> PDF mods ban me because I know their agenda most of them ............. chalo rehney doo


its opinion yaar they did not committed any crime in Pakistan millions did not agree on basic Islamic teachings . its society bro everyone have own opinion .i have never seen blasphemer posts here .


----------



## Zibago

crane berry said:


> Beta @Zibago I am not coming but even before 19th some purisrar banday will make visit to you or they may call you to explain some issues.
> 
> 
> You mean gharda that you smoke during Atheist meeting.
> 
> 
> Beta tashreef aisi ho jaye ghi na surgeon bhi repair nahien kr paye gha...ulta late kr Billi ki pics dekhna and I am not joking.


Ya pindi hoan ga ya Islamabad daikhtey hain kiya hota hay 
Isney to ferrari waley sey bhi ziyada chor dien 
@The Sandman

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RealNapster

The Sandman said:


>




Message Recieved and Destroyed.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Sandman

Zibago said:


> Isney to ferrari waley sey bhi ziyada chor dien


o yr wo bnda to gayab hi hogya


----------



## Djinn

Imran Khan said:


> its opinion yaar they did not committed any crime in Pakistan millions did not agree on basic Islamic teachings . its society bro everyone have own opinion .i have never seen blasphemer posts here .


Religious blasphemy and hate speech are crimes not just in Pakistan, but in most part of the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Imran Khan

crane berry said:


> Many now my real name and my cell # I created many Ids because some mods have personal issues with my because I love to expose them.
> 
> 
> Chup kr they are mocking even posting cartoons of Prophet PBUH, they should have tried in courts.


chal teri marzi bhai



Djinn said:


> Religious blasphemy and hate speech are crimes not just in Pakistan, but in most part of the world.


yeah i know it sir .


----------



## The Sandman

crane berry said:


> Beta I will just report you a simple report OK with some screen shorts and rest you will tell what happened to you but I am afraid you will never come again on PDF under Zibago's name.


You threatened him too he can do that too you know...


----------



## Zibago

crane berry said:


> Beta I will just report you a simple report OK with some screen shorts and rest you will tell what happened to you but I am afraid you will never come again on PDF under Zibago's name.


Chalo aur chortay jao


----------



## Imran Khan

crane berry said:


> Beta I will just report you a simple report OK with some screen shorts and rest you will tell what happened to you but I am afraid you will never come again on PDF under Zibago's name.


mudai ka pesh hona zaroori nhi hota FIR mian ?


----------



## Spring Onion

crane berry said:


> @Zibago
> You know when my bhanja went missing so my cousin gave me some numbers who helped us and later I discuss PDF with them so they assure me If I have proofs share with them.
> 
> 
> ....



ohhh terrriiiiii so you are that person who's bhanja went missing and few of us including me put efforts and helped you whatever way we could and today you are here to put false blames on us and threatening me too. wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww


BUT wait a minute you said you did not have any other ID.

wahhhhh bhai kia zamana hay .


----------



## pak-marine

crane berry said:


> Sure.
> 
> But where is @Zibago
> 
> Disappear


Why


crane berry said:


> I am not noon leghi niether Potian wana be Atheist.



Your mind set is like those of isis / daesh scum
Bag .. you are a Terrorist in hiding today you couldnt control Your emotions and came out barking like those extreme mullah snakes who bite the hand which feeds them ! feeling its opportunity for you ! However many perished and many more will but one thing is for sure your kind had their time and its now Over .. so better of finishing your miserable being some where else.. As less number of People are considered about ur kind infact after interacting with extremists like you .. people like bhensa and others are Gaining more and more Support &
Following ..


----------



## Djinn

crane berry said:


> @Zibago
> You know when my bhanja went missing so my cousin gave me some numbers who helped us and later I discuss PDF with them so they assure me If I have proofs share with them.
> 
> 
> Sure he should report me if he thinks he is innocent.
> 
> 
> Ok khas lo....


Oh are you the guy, whose nephew ran away from home? I am still waiting for the chocolates

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Well.wisher

crane berry said:


> When you helped me only fake promises nor a single journalist call me.
> Yes I don't have any other ID all banned
> 
> 
> 
> @lastofthepatriots thepatriots @Tipu7 @Sipahi @Zarvan



Your nephew went missing ?? By whom ? 

A Baloch friend's relative is also missing since five years .


----------



## Zibago

Spring Onion said:


> ohhh terrriiiiii so you are that person who's bhanja went missing and few of us including me put efforts and helped you whatever way we could and today you are here to put false blames on us and threatening me too. wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
> 
> 
> BUT wait a minute you said you did not have any other ID.
> 
> wahhhhh bhai kia zamana hay .


I regret asking people in my social media circuit of his whereabouts 

He had 100+id,s according to one mod

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Spring Onion

crane berry said:


> When you helped me only fake promises nor a single journalist call me.
> Yes I don't have any other ID all banned
> 
> .



That is not my fault if anybody did not contact you. I was honest enough to put posters as promised in Isloo and Pindi at my own kharcha as well as some classified ads. So NVM .

Your behaviour shows you are an ungrateful person who is on spree to threaten others without any reason.

anyways at least I am satisfied and have full confidence in our agencies and security apparatus. They are not blind so go ahead report as many as you can. 

NVM again

@Zibago lo bhaya iss episode say lesson learnt the hard way Never try to help anyone.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Farah Sohail

PakSword said:


> Yaar The Sandman.. if we don't do anything, we will become baighairat.. Seriously...
> 
> Just like we respect our flag and our constitution (that is also based on Islam) and file cases against anyone who disrespects them, we will have to stand up for our ideology.. for which Pakistan was formed.
> 
> We have laws that say that if you mock people, they can sue you... Similarly, if someone mocks the person who we consider most important, he should be tried according to the law..
> .



Couldnt have said any better.. The only reason..these atheists or west have started to disrespect our Holy Prophet(P.B.U.H) so often tht they want to make us beghairat..tht God Forbid, we say..oh leave it..matti pao....unhein un ke kiye ki saza khud mil jayegi..and remove all laws of blasphemy from constituition..

While as u said, these same ppl consider constituition, a man made document..so holy....tht even if someone speaks against it..they start hue and cry....talk abt article 6, and what not.... Why not remove article 6 from constituition? Why only remove blasphemy law?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Farah Sohail

PakSword said:


> I think only one got nabbed.
> 
> The rest are all underground.. The fourth one surely is underground.. .



Which one got nabbed?


----------



## Imran Khan

crane berry said:


> May be more but all banned.


seedhi baat batao inko . every week 5-7 IDs ban hoti hain . or wo admin wali kahani bhi suna yaar


----------



## paritosh

Well.wisher said:


> They don't question bro .
> There would very less sane atheists who'll question it properly . Their main agenda is just to defame islam and poison muslims for islam .
> Trust me , I've spent my 3 years in their surrounding . Debated them , conversed with them , answered their all questions with sanity and knowledge . But still they are some of most stubborn creatures . They have decided in their heart that they won't accept any truth from Islam but only defame it .
> 
> And trust me , once I was also doubtful about islam when I started talking to them, they just said some weird things that hurt me about islam , it was in start but alhamdulillah when I joined the company of religious muslims , I realised atheists lied to me and were trying to trap me , I was saved from this ftnah. Alhamdulillah Allah saved my faith .
> 
> And one thing more , you don't know how much dirty they're in their real lives . You seriously have no idea . If you knew it , you wouldn't even like to sit with them .



Well my two cents sir are that we live in the day and age of information, the rate of opinions being formed has grown exponentially now. Every now and then you'd find trouble brewing viz-a-vis your perspective on things being questioned by a new thought.
While the golden rule says that you shouldn't do unto others what you'd not want them to do unto you, we should also raise our collective standards of tolerance simply because there are so many ideas floating around.

Religions causes mob frenzy like nothing else and that leaves a heavy collateral damage.

I see your point but I think that the trajectory of your point may fall dangerously close to people being deemed 'unfit' simply because of apostasy. 

My blood boiled when I became aware of the JNU protests having Indian students asking for India's destruction, but I would still not want them to be persecuted at all. The point is, ideas should not affect our inner peace, or our inner peace just presents a state of dynamic equilibrium at best. Violent extremists bent on killing should not be confused with trouble mongers of thought.


----------



## Spring Onion

Zibago said:


> I regret asking people in my social media circuit of his whereabouts
> 
> He had 100+id,s according to one mod



I failed to understand what is his exact problem ? political or any other? I don't know if he had spent enough years to know members here? But his posts today against few of us specially my me shows that he does not know much about our affiliation to Pakistan and our love for our faith and Prophet.


----------



## Zarvan

crane berry said:


> When you helped me only fake promises nor a single journalist call me.
> Yes I don't have any other ID all banned
> 
> 
> Simple I love Prophet Muhammad PBUH and like any other Muslims can't tolerate blasphemy.
> 
> @lastofthepatriots thepatriots @Tipu7 @Sipahi @Zarvan
> 
> Come here and see PDF's mulhadeen.


Message is clear neither religious extremists and terrorists will be tolerated neither liberal fundos who abuse religion and PROPHET SAW and think nobody would touch him.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Spring Onion

Imran Khan said:


> seedhi baat batao inko . every week 5-7 IDs ban hoti hain . or wo admin wali kahani bhi suna yaar



who is this person? why is he threatening everybody without any reason that too with a US flag? Is he really based in US?


----------



## Farah Sohail

PakSword said:


> Also, its constitution says that it is an Islami Jamhooriya..
> 
> Yes, what Quaid wanted that all minorities will be given equal rights in our society..
> 
> This is the reason we have reserved seats for minorities..



What our friends dont understand is tht a true Islamic state will always protect minorities... They think tht if someone talks abt giving minorities equal rights..he was asking for secular state... Misaq e Madina and state of Madina was a perfect example of tht..

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Spring Onion

crane berry said:


> Jaana G I know you but still can't compromise on Islam in the name of free speech.



Then open your blind brain and see and clearly READ once and for all NEITHER we will compromise on Islam in the name of free speech.

NOW STOP YOUR blackmailing  and blatant threats. It seems you are with this bhensa group and venting your frustration over us just because those guys went missing.


----------



## Spring Onion

crane berry said:


> I am @OverLoad real name is Mian Ahmed Rattay lives in Dubai from Sialkot.
> 
> Aor kuch? madam.



Haan aur yeh k yeh fake flags laganay ki kia zarorat hay ? and why your other dozen ids were banned? I seriously do not know what you had been posting since I only followed that thread where you were asking for help to find your nephew.

anyway due to your personal hate for people the real topic has gone in hiding.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

Spring Onion said:


> who is this person? why is he threatening everybody without any reason that too with a US flag? Is he really based in US?


he has some issue with webby . he think that webby and admins work for money not for Pakistan . he came with many IDs and after few hour they ban him . some say he is RAZPAK but he refuse . he is threatening because of ego . no one committed blasphemy here or posted anything wrong but he got ego with members sister. abut his attitude i am not sure why he said so . but its remembered me 2012 when i was alcoholic addict and banned every week.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

crane berry said:


> Madam I have to use VPN aisy ID nahien banti my IP banned.
> 
> 
> My posting on this thread enough to know why I am banned plus some mod have personal grudge with me.


wo gilgati bhai tujhy dhundh raha hai lol:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PaklovesTurkiye

@NomanAli89 ...Bro...It looks like they were on anti state sectarian propaganda....

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Well.wisher

So who kidnapped admin of Bhensa?


----------



## Imran Khan

crane berry said:


> Carry on madam on TOPIC....
> 
> but mulahdeen try to justify Salman Taseer and others so I have to defend our POV


POV aik baat hoti hai bandy ghayeb karana dosri bat hoti hai sarkar. do te do char banty hain 6 nhi

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

Horus said:


> I'm not a hero. I just did what was right. Bhensa network had started to support separatism.


Every hero says that. To people on this forum you are a hero. 

May Allah protect you, guide you, and help you. May you do deeds that would make our Prophet SAWS proud of you. InshaAllah.

Reactions: Like Like:
 9


----------



## Imran Khan

Well.wisher said:


> So who kidnapped admin of Bhensa?


it was family fight and went bad FIA possibly nabbed him but he will be out soon he is not living in pakistan and he will go back . he came for a marriage ceremony or shareek rishtydar usko bardasht nhi ker paay .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pak-marine

crane berry said:


> Simple I love Prophet Muhammad PBUH and like any other Muslims can't tolerate blasphemy.
> 
> @lastofthepatriots thepatriots @Tipu7 @Sipahi @Zarvan
> 
> Come here and see PDF's mulhadeen.


U are a intolerant person and its people like you who made the religion a laugh for others as well
As for Muslims your extreme kind is the biggest threat to this Religion .. many are leaving or left because of intolerant views such as yours .. in fact in my opinion in your case your views are more terrorist than routine So you are more daeshi isis than Others .. so join your alikes they might help u get rid of your miseries .. probably assign you a sucide toilet mission .. as thats the best They considder your kind for


----------



## Well.wisher

paritosh said:


> Well my two cents sir are that we live in the day and age of information, the rate of opinions being formed has grown exponentially now. Every now and then you'd find trouble brewing viz-a-vis your perspective on things being questioned by a new thought.
> While the golden rule says that you shouldn't do unto others what you'd not want them to do unto you, we should also raise our collective standards of tolerance simply because there are so many ideas floating around.
> 
> Religions causes mob frenzy like nothing else and that leaves a heavy collateral damage.
> 
> I see your point but I think that the trajectory of your point may fall dangerously close to people being deemed 'unfit' simply because of apostasy.
> 
> My blood boiled when I became aware of the JNU protests having Indian students asking for India's destruction, but I would still not want them to be persecuted at all. The point is, ideas should not affect our inner peace, or our inner peace just presents a state of dynamic equilibrium at best. Violent extremists bent on killing should not be confused with trouble mongers of thought.



Agree with most of part .
But these ex muslims should also stop insulting islam and our prophet saww . 
More than provoking thoughts , it seems like they're programmed to cause havoc and ftnah in our soceity by insulting prophet saww .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

crane berry said:


> I just said I will report him to the concern authorities which I am going to.


you threatening them sir ji and also you give timeline that they will be dissapear and tortured before 19 . ye POV nhi hai


----------



## Imran Khan

crane berry said:


> You saw what he used to post about Prophet and Islam.


nope i may missed that pages janab .


----------



## Well.wisher

pak-marine said:


> U are a intolerant person and its people like you who made the religion a laugh for others as well
> As for Muslims your extreme kind is the biggest threat to this Religion .. many are leaving or left because of intolerant views such as yours .r



No, such people leave islam because of their own problems but resort to blame other muslims like a silly crying kid .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## A.M.

I am completely out of the loop...Can someone briefly summarize what this thread is about?


----------



## Spring Onion

Imran Khan said:


> he has some issue with webby . he think that webby and admins work for money not for Pakistan . he came with many IDs and after few hour they ban him . some say he is RAZPAK but he refuse . he is threatening because of ego . no one committed blasphemy here or posted anything wrong but he got ego with members sister. abut his attitude i am not sure why he said so . but its remembered me 2012 when i was alcoholic addict and banned every week.



He is not RAZPAK. RazPak is against Indians, patriotic but he does not threaten others unless someone abused his family.

anyway this website had been built with a great effort and hardwork. What is wrong if webby or admins or anyone who owns a website earn money? The domain is not free, the web space is not free, so what is wrong if someone puts money in something and earn?

At least as far as I know all these people behind this website NEVER worked against Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## A.M.

crane berry said:


> Only say once lanat on mulhadeen of Bhensa and PDF.


Thanks for nothing.


----------



## pak-marine

Well.wisher said:


> No, such people leave islam because of their own problems but resort to blame other muslims like a silly crying kid .


Its a factor there are tons of videos on you tube by ex muslims and intolerance is one of the reasons putting them of the religion


----------



## Zibago

Spring Onion said:


> I failed to understand what is his exact problem ? political or any other? I don't know if he had spent enough years to know members here? But his posts today against few of us specially my me shows that he does not know much about our affiliation to Pakistan and our love for our faith and Prophet.


Sharabi.ho.kar fatwey bant raha hey
Khud ko daikhy phir boly


----------



## Zibago

A.M. said:


> I am completely out of the loop...Can someone briefly summarize what this thread is about?


Anti Islam anti army anti.Pakistan bloggers got arrested by agencies
Some political parties amd activists are reselling.their anti army manjan


----------



## pak-marine

crane berry said:


> @Khafee
> He is one of them Atheist Bhensa group and despite horus's warning he keep shitting here and there.


If any of the mods @Horus or @Khafee wish to warn me they can do so by giving me a infractions warnings , bans or negative ratings .. pdf doesnt think like a terrorist such as your selves


----------



## A.M.

Zibago said:


> Anti Islam anti army anti.Pakistan bloggers got arrested by agencies
> Some political parties amd activists are reselling.their anti army manjan


And what's @Horus role in this?


----------



## Well.wisher

pak-marine said:


> Its a factor there are tons of videos on you tube by ex muslims and intolerance is one of the reasons putting them of the religion



They lie. Many of them would rarely mention the main personal problem for which they left islam . All they do is blame other muslims for making them leave islam to cover themselves . How stupid one can be . 

Tons of muslims drink alcohol, tons of muslims don't pray , tons of muslims fight with each other , tons of muslims donot pray .. *Doesn't mean I'll leave my islam for their actions . *They've other agendas .

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## HAIDER

Do the honesty and goodness these pages will disappear. Follow the rule number one set by Holy Prophet PBUH and preach first 40 years of his life ...akhlaq.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zibago

A.M. said:


> And what's @Horus role in this?


First the abducted goons were called mazlomeen later horus connected them to bhensa group which resulted in jibran nasir calling for arrest of pdf admins cuz horus called the abducted blasphamers

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## pak-marine

RangeMaster said:


> What kind of person you are.Tell me what will you do if I start abusing your father.You should remain quiet and tolerant because if you speak something it will be against freedom of speech.And now tell me what respect do Holy prophet PBUH deserves,your father deserves greater reapect then him?shame on you.You ugly hypocritic liberal morons are more dangerous to Pakistan then extremism


You just jumped in or did you followed the thread ? this guy @crane berry has been threatening members all day long none of the members he threatened has said ever anything against the Prophet (pbuh) most are followers of islam and i am Merely pointing towards his intolerance remarks and fatwas .. so next time before u jump
In to a Conversation do read and do some
Research before passing silly sentences

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## HAIDER

Zibago said:


> They are Tarik Fateh types they live in Islamabad,Lahore and Larachi mainly and bhens isnt a cow its a buffalo
> 
> 
> I did visit bhensa page I know the filth that was displayed
> 
> 
> This was daily occurance at bhensa thats why I hate it I got banned at bhensa for criticizing mqm
> @Moonlight @The Sandman @django @Musafir117
> 
> 
> Religion argument aside they insulted creation of this country do you think such people deserve to live freely in a country they think was a mistake?
> I think not even US president proposed strict action against those who insult national symbols and we arent even a proper democracy so its fair that we are breaking necks of all those who mock our country while living in Pakistan


Bhai story tu bataoo kia ha.....? ....what are the proven allegations ? ...everyone is writing everything, but nobody is writing the issue . Who are they, why they are running these pages, who made them disappear.
(I know Jibran Nasir raise the protest against Maulana Burqa , since then he is receiving death threats. Dawn publish the whole story with picture and later Pak TV gave full coverage . When Apara thana refused to file FIR against Maulana burqa)


----------



## Spring Onion

A.M. said:


> I am completely out of the loop...Can someone briefly summarize what this thread is about?



This thread is about FB page bhensa. most of us did not know about this page until the admins and some others of that page and affiliates went missing. The PDF FB page said something about bhensa people stating it was a defeat of these blasphemers. Hence Nasir jibran demanded of the government to arrest the admins of PDF.

This is what this thread is all about while this crane berry is labeling everyone here as supporter of bhensa which is not the case.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zibago

crane berry said:


> Tu bhi pakra jaye gha Inshallah.
> 
> 
> Nothing just a retard blame PDF admins so hypocrite PDF admins become hero.
> 
> 
> They don't now that they are dealing with latoun ka bhoot jo batoun se nahien manta.


Hazaron khwahishain aisey


----------



## airmarshal

US will take notice of every effort to nip the fitna in the bud @Spring Onion so I m not suprised.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Well.wisher

Zibago said:


> Hazaron khwahishain aisey



K har khwahesh pe dam nikle. .
Boht nikle bhensay k jaan nisaar , phr b kam nikle .. 

......

Completed .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HAIDER

Spring Onion said:


> This thread is about FB page bhensa. most of us did not know about this page until the admins and some others of that page and affiliates went missing. The PDF FB page said something about bhensa people stating it was a defeat of these blasphemers. Hence Nasir jibran demanded of the government to arrest the admins of PDF.
> 
> This is what this thread is all about while this crane berry is labeling everyone here as supporter of bhensa which is not the case.


lol..... o come one ....just ignore such type of pages, hundreds of pages run on FB daily and close. Who cares ...... seriously are we spending so much time discussing such pages.??????.... lol.

lol...... Don't want to write, but in this forum people don't know , in Pakistani Universities a huge majority of teaching class is atheist. These people there for decades


----------



## Spring Onion

HAIDER said:


> lol..... o come one ....just ignore such type of pages, hundreds of pages run on FB daily and close. Who cares ...... seriously are we spending so much time discussing such pages.??????.... lol.



I did not know about this page . Just came to know about this when PDF was dragged and here the discussion started.

Neither I knew names of those people before until the media started talking about their disappearance.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zibago

Well.wisher said:


> K har khwahesh pe dam nikle. .
> Boht nikle bhensay k jaan nisaar , phr b kam nikle ..
> 
> ......
> 
> Completed .


So senior member was right


----------



## Well.wisher

Zibago said:


> So senior member was right


Right about what ?


----------



## Mentee

HAIDER said:


> lol..... o come one ....just ignore such type of pages, hundreds of pages run on FB daily and close. Who cares ...... seriously are we spending so much time discussing such pages.??????.... lol.


I care , we care, infact every human with a bit of intelligence humanity and self respect cares. Our duty is to report every such page to the authorities .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Super Falcon

Should be hanged that bhensa


----------



## Imran Khan

HAIDER said:


> lol..... o come one ....just ignore such type of pages, hundreds of pages run on FB daily and close. Who cares ...... seriously are we spending so much time discussing such pages.??????.... lol.


as i know sir . every freethinkers runs own forums and pages . there are so many of them bhensa was one of them others are still on FB . so many ahmdi also run pages . nothing can control social media but our education . if every Muslim is educated abut islam and have basic knowledge of Islam nothing will happen . problem is we have big society with so many hip hops so there is a gap . i have read so many atheists in 11 months turn shia 12th month lollz . same as i see so many claim to be freethinker agnostic atheists but they are not its just pressure the release . some of them just turn back with one incident . good example is death of one of famous atheist's close relative and he turned to be sufi . most important part of this is 100s of them in wast east asia USA canada EU so what FIA will do ?


----------



## Zibago

crane berry said:


> Jab laal laal dhoi ghar le kr jaoo gey tab sab khahishyen poori ho jayen ghi.


Arey nokri janay ka itna sadma 
Jan deo rab hor dey si


----------



## mingle

Like Saroor Ijaz ,hello pretty pistol ,Bhensa also exposed amazing .


----------



## HAIDER

Mentee said:


> I care , we care, infact every human with a bit of intelligence humanity and self respect cares. Our duty is to report every such page to the authorities .


You can report that. But making big deal of it.........seriously ........Allah will ask for " haquq il ibad " first , later talk about your namaz. .... anyway , dear brother its waste of time.


----------



## Zibago

Well.wisher said:


> Right about what ?


Nothing nothing just messing around

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mentee

HAIDER said:


> You can report that. But making big deal of it.........seriously ........Allah will ask for " haquq il ibad " first , later talk about your namaz. .... anyway , dear brother its waste of time.


That's a straw man's argument to be precise. Anyone living inside Pak should have to abide by the constitutional rules ---

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HAIDER

Imran Khan said:


> as i know sir . every freethinkers runs own forums and pages . there are so many of them bhensa was one of them others are still on FB . so many ahmdi also run pages . nothing can control social media but our education . if every Muslim is educated abut islam and have basic knowledge of Islam nothing will happen . problem is we have big society with so many hip hops so there is a gap . i have read so many atheists in 11 months turn shia 12th month lollz . same as i see so many claim to be freethinker agnostic atheists but they are not its just pressure the release . some of them just turn back with one incident . good example is death of one of famous atheist and he turned to be sufi . most important part of this is 100s of them in wast east asia USA canada EU so what FIA will do ?


Khan sahab ......ya social media bhoot bari bemari ha....you spend all day and nites. Take trip to teaching circles of Pakistani colleges and universities ...its different world. Which majority of people don't know.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zibago

crane berry said:


> Beta I am engineer I got a job 3 months back OK so mera sona pack your bags may you need some cloths.


Mein to nahi ja raha karlo jo karna hay


----------



## django

CHACHA"G" said:


> *Hello all
> WTF , Those types of pages , man its just too much , Its great to know they are down and there pages too , but it will be a great shame if they come out alive, They deserve punishment (pain full) for what they did.
> Not only them but also all those who are coming out for there support , My foot fking Roshan Khiyal activists . Kill them all too with there brothers TTPs , One Liberal and Second Religious but in reality Both Terrorists.
> 
> Note: I am having a fear that they might be killed by there handlers , just like Sabeen . But if, This is done by any of our agency , Salute to them , Great jobs guys , best of luck and keep up the good work .
> @Hours Great job done bro , keep up the good work . I have a suggestion if u can pass it to authorities , Its time to make a proper activists cell(forum, sensor , etc) to counter and check , Pro Iran(Shia) + Pro KSA(Sunni or Wahhabi) pages , posts , videos , articles ,news , liberals , fundamentalist, activists , scholars etc,,,, Its time for PAKISTAN FIRST (Islamic Pakistan not Sunni Nor Shia)
> 
> Please say no to Liberal Terrorism . Thank u all
> 
> @Zibago , @django , @The Sandman , @Moonlight , @PaklovesTurkiye , @Zarvan , @Ulla *


I myself am a moderate yet I consider blasphemers the filthiest and vilest creatures on the face of this Earth, so glad these B@st_r_s have been taken down, do these swines not realise that this nation was created in the name of Islam yet they have the audacity to insult the Holy Prophet (pbuh), am glad to know that folk or rather filth like this will know that in future their will be severe consequences for their most hideuos action, that they can no longer hide behind a PC screen.Kudos Chacha

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Imran Khan

HAIDER said:


> Khan sahab ......ya social media bhoot bari bemari ha....you spend all day and nites.


ab nhi sir ji . i am quit sitting behind . social media ho ya webs even YT her jaga tons of tons blasphemy ho rahi hai not only hamary mazhab ya firqy ke khilaf her kisi ke khilaf . isko 2-3 bandy paker ke band nhi kiya ja sakta . real problem is counter the arguments with argument . koi khuda ka banda hai ? as i know its happen after very long time once and then turn back as always .


----------



## Farah Sohail

mingle said:


> Like *Saroor Ijaz *,hello pretty pistol ,Bhensa also exposed amazing .




Saroor Ijaz? What exposed? Wasnt he a running a satire page?


----------



## mingle

Farah Sohail said:


> Saroor Ijaz? What exposed? Wasnt he a running a satire page?


Yeh he is Salman Masood of the Nation there is no actual person name Saroor ijaz .


----------



## django

crane berry said:


> The person your are quoting is open supporter of agnostic and atheist but now showing us that he is working against them but if you check his post history you will find him one them.


Stop lying you clown, he had done no such thing, he is opposed to extremist Khwariji types, as am I, that does not make us non-believers, ,,,stop lying you bloody liar.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Well.wisher

Dekho dekho kon ayya ..

Qaanoon aya Qaanoon aya .. 

Bhensa kia pakra gya apny kaalay kartooton ki wajah se , Saron ko apny computer k laalay par gye




.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## django

The Sandman said:


> I know him for more than 1 year now and he never said anything like that. Yes he speaks against mullahs and there's nothing wrong with that.
> @django @Hell hound


Ignore this excrement spewing troll. We know Sheikh very well, @Zaki @Moonlight @PaklovesTurkiye @Sarge @CHACHA"G"

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## F.O.X

This is just the beginning, many more soon to come from both sides.... Anyone who tries to create conflict between the masses will not be spared... Be it bhensa or bakra.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Well.wisher

crane berry said:


> Because he is sharing girls picture with all of you tharki guys.
> 
> .



AP in ko kuch ziada hi jaante hain .. 

Qasam se waqai, mehwish hayaat pe threads bnata ha .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Imran Khan

crane berry said:


> What he did and doing continuously and if you support him you are also with them.


ye to wohi baat ho gai *جو نا مانے وہ بھی کافر ؟*


----------



## Zibago

Imran Khan said:


> ye to wohi baat ho gai *جو نا مانے وہ بھی کافر ؟*


Like Hasn Nisar said Pakistan mein wo dhang ka banda paida nahi hoya jis pr kufr ka ftwa na laga ho

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mentee

Well.wisher said:


> AP in ko kuch ziada hi jaante hain ..
> 
> Qasam se waqai, mehwish hayaat pe threads bnata ha .


Chupp Kr jao

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Sandman

crane berry said:


> Because he is sharing girls picture with all of you tharki guys.


LOL @Zibago @django 


Zibago said:


> Like Hasn Nisar said Pakistan mein wo dhang ka banda paida nahi hoya jis pr kufr ka ftwa na laga ho

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zibago

Well.wisher said:


> AP in ko kuch ziada hi jaante hain ..
> 
> Qasam se waqai, mehwish hayaat pe threads bnata ha .


Sometimes i feel like you talk to yourself


----------



## django

crane berry said:


> Respect bro I am @OverLoad aka maarkhoor just check few pages back.


I was not aware of your identity, however I disagree with you on this one.Kudos


----------



## The Sandman

crane berry said:


> Tou koun na teen mien teraan mien. go get lost.


nikal le you're getting annoying now.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Well.wisher

crane berry said:


> Check this @OverLoad and search his posts and threads.
> 
> st.



E to banned hai . 


Mentee said:


> Chupp Kr jao



Acha teeeekk ha  


Zibago said:


> Sometimes i feel like you talk to yourself



Raaz to faash nhi kr dia my ny aap ka ....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Clutch

crane berry said:


> I said check with him about blasphemy law and his views about it and salaman taseer.



I am against the blasphemy law because of its abuse in Pakistan. That doesn't make me an "atheist" ... im just against mullahism


----------



## CHACHA"G"

django said:


> I myself am a moderate yet I consider blasphemers the filthiest and vilest creatures on the face of this Earth, so glad these B@st_r_s have been taken down, do these swines not realise that this nation was created in the name of Islam yet they have the audacity to insult the Holy Prophet (pbuh), am glad to know that folk or rather filth like this will know that in future their will be severe consequences for their most hideuos action, that they can no longer hide behind a PC screen.Kudos Chacha



*Great to know bro, Keep up the good work and keep an eye on Social Media . Till 80s All Pakistan were Moderate but still extremely religious , and Ready for dying in Love of OUR GREAT HOLY PROPHET PBUH). 
Thanks to Iran and GCC with Iraq and Libya and lovely USA and West or Europe , things got heavily changed in Pakistan , In reality we Lost Our Pakistan. *



F.O.X said:


> This is just the beginning, many more of soon to come from both sides.... Anyone who tries to create conflict between the masses will not be spared... Be it bhensa or bakra.



*This have to be done sir, Its need of the hour , Take all of them from both sides , Just take them all out , Please Find the Pakistan which we last somewhere !!!!!!!!!!!!

Note: For every one ....... What a Irony , Both of these wings so called Religious but in reality fundamentalists and So called Liberals (Atheists or Any) were against Making of Pakistan , against Foundation of Pakistan , Ideology of Pakistan , but now Both behave like there Ami brings Pakistan in Jahayz ............. Even now after 70 years Both still act against Islam ,Pakistan , Ideology of Pakistan , Social Fabric and Norms of Pakistani Society , etc., 
*


crane berry said:


> Because he is sharing girls picture with all of you tharki guys.


*WTF , R u out of your mind ????????????? what the hell on earth this means ?*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zibago

crane berry said:


> I said check with him about blasphemy law and his views about it and salaman taseer.


Salam Taseer was innocent questioning a law doesnot make you blasphemer doing blasphemy makes you blasphemer Qadri was a ghadar and terrorist who killed hakim e waqt he deserved what he got my view on blasphemy law is simple its abused a lot and it has to examined thats what many parties are saying too

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## M. Sarmad

HAIDER said:


> Did you visit those pages ? ...*any of those missing guys did blasphemy* ? ....asking because don't know much about this all fiasco ......




A few people have gone missing .... _Supposedly_ they were the admins of a few fb pages that _allegedly_ posted Blasphemous/Anti-National content.


Those people are missing, no one knows who abducted them (or what happened to them) ... That content (if any) has already been removed/deleted .. 


Moderate and sane Pakistanis opposing/criticizing these "Enforced Disappearances" and asking for _a_ _fair trial under the law of the land_ are being broadly labelled as pseudo-liberals and supporters of blasphemers/anti-national elements


The Right-Wing extremists are having a field day 


End of Story

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zibago

Well.wisher said:


> E to banned hai .
> 
> 
> Acha teeeekk ha
> 
> 
> Raaz to faash nhi kr dia my ny aap ka ....


Mujhay to ulta hisab lagta hay


----------



## Farah Sohail

mingle said:


> Yeh he is Salman Masood of the Nation there is no actual person name Saroor ijaz .



I know he was a fake person....but he was Salman Masood? I highly doubt tht... Salman Masood is a liberal...while Saroor ijaz was highly anti pseudo liberals.....

Also sometimes, i felt tht , saroor ijaz account was handled by diff ppl at different times


----------



## TheDarkKnight

waleed3601 said:


> must say its news to me that mqm and ppp killed people because they didn't bow down to the glorious ideology of secular liberalism lol. nice try kiddo, but think twice before you type. ppp and mqm kill because they're mafias. they dont have any ideological convictions, only a drive for money and power. mullahs do too, but they sell their mindset and ideas to get it.
> yet for the sake of comparison even if we do consider your argument passable, the number of people killed by ppp and mqm combined still doesn't stand anywhere near how many people religious extremists kill.


Does it matter to the dead and their loved ones if a liberal facist killed them for money or a religious extremist killed them? My post was highlighting the fact that non religious groups are equally capable of voilence and terrorisim, may be for different motiviations - money, power, ideology. End result is the same - terrorisim.
Your original post was about not agreeing with 'views' ... has altaf hussain not ordered killing of journalists, politicians and other citizens who opposed him in views only? Was it not near blasphemous to criticize him in media (until recently now)? Religious extremists are responsible for voilence in our society, and this can be explained by weakness in our education, social institutions, brain washing done by mullahs to create hatred. I fail to underatand how the so called flag bearers of liberalisim and secularism, divulge in the worst kinds of terrorisim and work against the national interests on foreign funding?

Regards


----------



## CHACHA"G"

Azlan Haider said:


> A few people have gone missing .... _Supposedly_ they were the admins of a few fb pages that _allegedly_ posted Blasphemous/Anti-National content.
> 
> 
> Those people are missing, no one knows who abducted them (or what happened to them) ... That content (if any) has already been removed/deleted ..
> 
> 
> *Moderate and sane Pakistanis opposing/criticizing these "Enforced Disappearances*" and asking for _fair trial under the law of the land_ are being broadly labelled as pseudo-*liberals and supporters of blasphemers/anti-national elements*
> 
> 
> *The Right-Wing extremists are having a field day*
> 
> 
> End of Story



*Have u read the whole thread? , Do u have any Idea about what behnsa or what ever is? Do u know what those A$$ Holes doing on Social Media , what type of venom they were using Against Islam , Pakistan ?? 
What the F u mean by Moderate and sane ?????? your bold part explains all about you!!!!!!!!
Stop telling us the story we all know that . If u want to tell us some thing new , Tell us what u personally think or where u stand !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RealNapster

crane berry said:


> I did't give timeline his friends @RealNapster did it check once more. And I don't care report me



You threatened him and i just give you time to prove yourself.


----------



## M. Sarmad

CHACHA"G" said:


> * what behnsa or what ever is? Do u know what those A$$ Holes doing on Social Media , what type of venom they were using Against Islam , Pakistan ?? *



Chacha G koi saboot hai ap k pas ? Ya jo suna maan liya ? 

If they have committed any crime, they should be punished according to the law of the land ... Everyone has a right to fair trial ... Kuch Ghalat Kaha Ham Ne Janab ?


----------



## Patriots

paritosh said:


> That is not a good thing. If Islam is the truth, then it should be questioned time and again.
> Indoctrination is a society aiming low.




There is no objection on questioning ... But how could be allowed insulting of Islam

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PK_Patriot

Zibago said:


> Like Hasn Nisar said Pakistan mein wo dhang ka banda paida nahi hoya jis pr kufr ka ftwa na laga ho


Hasan Nisaar pagal khanay se bhaag gaya tha


----------



## The Sandman

CHACHA"G" said:


> *Have u read the whole thread? , Do u have any Idea about what behnsa or what ever is? Do u know what those A$$ Holes doing on Social Media , what type of venom they were using Against Islam , Pakistan ??
> What the F u mean by Moderate and sane ?????? your bold part explains all about you!!!!!!!!
> Stop telling us the story we all know that . If u want to tell us some thing new , Tell us what u personally think or where u stand !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *


Chacha g calm down thande paani ka glass piyo  we know what these scums were posting on social media but picking them up and killing them isn't gonna do anything it's only helping them! i am sure agencies have proofs they supported BLA etc we can hang them because of anti Pak activities.


----------



## Mrc

A fair trial will definitely lead to death sentence... and they will likely be killed by other inmates than by state...be carefull what you wish for

Letting them go is not an option as they will run away take political assylam and contunue their heinous activities.....

They are better off being kidnapped by a non state person

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## waleed3601

RangeMaster said:


> What do you mean by free thinkers.If today I start abusing your father and family,you would let me to do so?You should, because I am a freethinker and have right to say anything.Where is your freethinkig and freedom of speech when religion is other than Islam and country other than Pakistan.There are more threats from ill minded liberals then molvis to Pakistan.


i absolutely would. but that's more of a personal thing since i've mastered the art of not giving a ****. they're mere words, and i know them to not be true, then why give a shit if you're abusing my father or my family, your loss of time and energy mate.
and do you really believe what you said in the last line? molvis molest kids, brainwash them into becoming jihadists, collect money from honest muslims to fund terrorist activities, and what do liberals do? run facebook pages, write articles and protest with candles. there's a real problem with our society if it considers the latter more dangerous than the former.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## F.O.X

Azlan Haider said:


> Chacha G koi saboot hai ap k pas ? Ya jo suna maan liya ?
> 
> If they have committed any crime, they should be punished according to the law of the land ... Everyone has a right to fair trial ... Kuch Ghalat Kaha Ham Ne Janab ?


Do you have any proof that agencies did it?, for all we know aliens abducted them....

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Mrc

F.O.X said:


> Do you have any proof that agencies did it?, for all we know aliens abducted them....




No ... just routine rants

Same happened when sabin mahmud was killed

I have strong suspicion their own handlers are doing this to malign the state

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CHACHA"G"

Azlan Haider said:


> Chacha G koi saboot hai ap k pas ? Ya jo suna maan liya ?
> 
> If they have committed any crime, they should be punished according to the law of the land ... Everyone has a right to fair trial ... Kuch Ghalat Kaha Ham Ne Janab ?



*LMAO , from where you just come out !!!! what was u drinking or what drug u were taking ? as I said before , have u even read this whole thread .
Ask @Hours for more saboots.............. And what about AfiyaSadiqi fair trial ? What about the fair trial of pregnant Muslim women killed in France ? list is way to long!!!!!! 
*



The Sandman said:


> Chacha g calm down thande paani ka glass piyo  we know what these scums were posting on social media but picking them up and killing them isn't gonna do anything it's only helping them! i am sure agencies have proofs they supported BLA etc we can hang them because of anti Pak activities.



*Yaar I am very much in control , lakin sala bola all sane and moderate Pakistanis are in favour of those A$$ holes. That is what take me away , I only wish our courts of law do there job and we hang them through proper channel . Still no one knows where the hell on earth those A$$ holes are.
*



F.O.X said:


> Do you have any proof that agencies did it?, for all we know aliens abducted them....



*Yes Sir, They have Proofs , for them every word they say is as legal as Constitution of Pakistan .Also there masters (handlers) told them . But pages like behnsa or what ever is Moderate and Roshan Khiyali , *



Mrc said:


> No ... just routine rants
> 
> Same happened when sabin mahmud was killed
> 
> I have strong suspicion their own handlers are doing this to malign the state



*This is what I also fear , they were exposed by @hours and other Pakistanis , now there masters know under new Law in Pakistan these fckers will be hanged , So here comes the drama .
And all So called liberals (Politicians , Activists , NGO mafia , Candle Mafia , TV show's experts ) come out for there right. 
Where were all of these sympathisers when they were spreading all types of possible Hate , Venom , agenda of Pakistan's enemies against Islam , Pakistan .*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Eagle

Such type of people are on agenda and being on payroll by enemies to create chaos and unrest in the society by provoking and other tactics so in the end can create a good reason for the many to show us as unstable and intolerant as many, with less understanding of such proxies would react to situation and will harm own house on mere personal judgement. It has been proven that enemy is already thwarted in conventional war hence adopted another way to infect the society and all that rage and revenge would be enough for extreme protest risking many lives. Seems to be like, blasphemy alone was not their agenda but a wide propaganda against everything that relates to Pakistan in all. Definitions like Atheist, radical, activists etc are mere excuses for the crime one or a group did or use to do that many do not understand. Freedom of speech does not permit anyone to provoke or insult others in every aspect from religion to personal level as well as the Law of the Pakistan. 

MQM and BLA/BLF etc sympathizers have been protesting in past for disappearance of people and these type of activists/media persons were like bonkers and have been maligning LEAs as such then none spoke when those missing stooges were in Kenya, South Africa and somehow few of them made it to Germany/EU on Afghan Passports and most probably, are in Afghanistan so no need to loose patience every now and then for so-called activists as these are old tactics for the propaganda and misleading agenda. Let it be confirm first that either Government take them or they ran away knowing the results, hiding and utilizing the same opportunity to malign LEAs. We also need to keep in view the kidnapping of Taseer's son as well the Son of CJ Sindh High Court in recent, their recovery and people involved so it will be too early to make any conclusion on personal feelings or grudge against Pakistan however, we fully support our Government for doing the right things. 

Lets start with saying N.A.P. and Cyber Crime Bill that are good enough to deal with such type of activities. There was reason to initiate or come with such Laws because these activities are not new but were happening since long ago. I see there, a detailed follow-up of such activities and if the action is taken by the LEAs then I am sure, there were clear reading of there signatures and were under Radar to make it sure. Security measures are taken in the best interest of the Pakistan for many reasons and we have been reading about the same everyday so in short, as we are en-route to prosper and growth like CPEC etc, whatever it is Bhensa, Bakra, Dhunba, Billa or Kawa, will be dealt accordingly that pose any threat to Pakistan and its sovereignty. 

Jibran Nasir maligned PDF due to a reason when @Horus unveiled the agenda of those pages owners and indeed, the information was based upon confirm tracks and findings, therefore, we all came to know here so he deserve the appreciation for such efforts that fulfilled his responsibility being a Pakistani so shall we. However, it has to be made clear that I don't see as PDF forcing or manipulating authorities to do so but did report the contents and then after, most probably, these activists being aware of results & Law, self disappeared hence all the propaganda against LEAs and PDF Admin as well. Why not somebody in love of these people, may check couple of embassies as they could be most loving & honoured guests for our enemies rather than as Jibran Nasir is trying to portray an image that actually PDF assigned a team under a Captain with best guys, tinted Vigo(s) and Parado(s), disguised in White Shalwar Kameez to get them as like Indians reported that ISI abducted Kulbhushan from Iran, wow, I mean, give it some rest for a while and let's see what next.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Patriots

The Sandman said:


> I knew this was gonna happen and i know it's a long debate but there are quotes of Mr. Jinnah that proves he wanted a secular Pakistan so lets just end it here.




Do you know 14 points agenda of QA ??? Why did he demand a saperate country for Muslim community of Indo-Pak ?? If he wanted secular Pakistan then secular India was enough for him ... There was no need to make an independant country for Muslims ........

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## RangeMaster

waleed3601 said:


> i absolutely would. but that's more of a personal thing since i've mastered the art of not giving a ****. they're mere words, and i know them to not be true, then why give a shit if you're abusing my father or my family, your loss of time and energy mate.
> and do you really believe what you said in the last line? molvis molest kids, brainwash them into becoming jihadists, collect money from honest muslims to fund terrorist activities, and what do liberals do? run facebook pages, write articles and protest with candles. there's a real problem with our society if it considers the latter more dangerous than the former.


Who the hell are you kid?
I don't give a shit to your speech here.I was not talking to you.Who invited you to reply here?You can keep you time and energy.


----------



## mingle

Farah Sohail said:


> I know he was a fake person....but he was Salman Masood? I highly doubt tht... Salman Masood is a liberal...while Saroor ijaz was highly anti pseudo liberals.....
> 
> Also sometimes, i felt tht , saroor ijaz account was handled by diff ppl at different times


No it was him .He got caught in Pak ppl have different personalities at different times on different account .Salman masood is not liberal but a pervet pretend to be a liberal .i think mostly ppl even dont know what liberal means ?like Bhensa ID run by different ppl at sametime .


----------



## Farah Sohail

mingle said:


> No it was him .He got caught in Pak ppl have different personalities at different times on different account .Salman masood is not liberal but a pervet pretend to be a liberal .i think mostly ppl even dont know what liberal means ?like Bhensa ID run by different ppl at sametime .



Ppl in Pak think liberal means insulting religion, becoming a lackey of the west 

Salman Masood and Saroor Ijaz??? I still cant absorb this ....

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## PakSword

mingle said:


> like Bhensa ID run by different ppl at sametime .



Do you have any idea if these IDs and passwords were not being shared between all libtards? Or one guy was admin of one page and another guy was admin of another page?



Patriots said:


> Do you know 14 points agenda of QA ??? Why did he demand a saperate country for Muslim community of Indo-Pak ?? If he wanted secular Pakistan then secular India was enough for him ... There was no need to make an independant country for Muslims ........



Exactly, and you know, if creating a secular state was the objective, actually Muslims were divided in three different countries for no reason..

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Rizwan Alam

Have you seen this page??

https://www.facebook.com/RoshniNewPage/


----------



## Patriots

Rizwan Alam said:


> Have you seen this page??
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/RoshniNewPage/



This shows very clearly their agenda @waleed3601

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

Farah Sohail said:


> Ppl in Pak think liberal means insulting religion, becoming a lackey of the west
> 
> Salman Masood and Saroor Ijaz??? I still cant absorb this ....


Yeh girls have tough time to accept this it was him .Hello pretty pistol was his hallmark .This guy was nothing more than a pervert a women predator actualy caught by woman .A desparate Saroor saroofied aka salman masood .


----------



## Rumaysha Maqsood

EAK said:


> Yes @Horus ..Good work indeed.. following your efforts from sometime now.. You really put some fireworks in 5th columns pants..Thumbs up


how can i post on defenc pk


----------



## Spring Onion

mingle said:


> Yeh girls have tough time to accept this it was him .Hello pretty pistol was his hallmark .This guy was nothing more than a pervert a women predator actualy caught by woman .A desparate Saroor saroofied aka salman masood .


who is he. what girls have to do with him.


----------



## Panther 57

Spring Onion said:


> even hate speech is fine somewhat but the kind of stuff such pages spread in fact inciting violence leading to killings.


Sorry for being ignorant but what is the actual story behind. I visited these facebook pages but am unable to understand the controversy. 
Seems I am getting old to understand latest advancements in social media lol

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Spring Onion

Panther 57 said:


> Sorry for being ignorant but what is the actual story behind. I visited these facebook pages but am unable to understand the controversy.
> Seems I am getting old to understand latest advancements in social media lol


lol well honstly I did not know about their page and them but just came to know when jibran nasir draged pdf into it. some members who visited their page in the past said that the page had blasphemous content. and now that page is overtaken and cleaned.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mingle

Spring Onion said:


> who is he. what girls have to do with him.


Salman masood is jurno of the Nation paper also contribute in NYT .He use to Saroor ijaz ID a famous sarcastic ID on twitter .He used to taget ladies on account most of his fans were girls .You know girls like Rangbazi he caught by one girl when he invite her on whats app that was his hallmark pretty pistol .she posted all his communication with her on twitterr. salman never denie it.irony is unmistakble. But i beleive many girls know who is he but ppl shy sometimes .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PakSword

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/820340658628132864
Who is this?


----------



## PaklovesTurkiye

I saw people over here fighting on secular and liberal.....Please guys...Do we have one single defined nation of liberal or secular? People arguing over whether Pakistan was destined to be secular state or not??

What the fuk is liberal or secular? What does it mean? Everyone defines in it own way...Doesn't it?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Farah Sohail

mingle said:


> Yeh girls have tough time to accept this it was him .Hello pretty pistol was his hallmark .This guy was nothing more than a pervert a women predator actualy caught by woman .A desparate Saroor saroofied aka salman masood .



Loll.. It had nothing to do with me, being a girl... It was just odd hearing this, at first

Anyways.. I just googled...and read all tht.....

Errrghhh...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mingle

Farah Sohail said:


> Loll.. It had nothing to do with me, being a girl... It was just odd hearing this, at first
> 
> Anyways.. I just googled...and read all tht.....
> 
> Errrghhh...


No i am not pointing you but look at his following most r girls .So u enjoyed reading it .?


----------



## The Sandman

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> I saw people over here fighting on secular and liberal.....Please guys...Do we have one single defined nation of liberal or secular? People arguing over whether Pakistan was destined to be secular state or not??
> 
> What the fuk is liberal or secular? What does it mean? Everyone defines in it own way...Doesn't it?


This part of his speech is very very important.
"You are free; you are free to go to your temples. You are free to go to your mosques or to any other places of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed --that has nothing to do with the business of the State. " but we're going off topic here so i would say lets avoid it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Farah Sohail

mingle said:


> No i am not pointing you but look at his following most r girls .So u enjoyed reading it .?



..to be honest.. I liked his posts, where he bashed pseudo liberals... But now i am thinking..i was such an idiot...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

*Question: "What is secularism?"

Answer: *Essentially, secularism says that man does not need God. It can be defined as “a system of doctrines and practices that disregards or rejects any form of religious faith and worship. Its primary objective is the total elimination of all religious elements from society.” Secularism, also known as secular humanism, teaches that there are no objective or absolute truths defining right and wrong. In essence, to secularize something is to make it worldly and unspiritual. Its intent is to deprive something of its religious character, its spiritual influence and significance.

Secularism permeates all facets of our society: education, government, the criminal justice system, the news media, the entertainment industry, etc. Secularists believe that man is the measure of all things, that morals are man-centered, not God-centered. Therefore, no one is entitled to determine right from wrong, and morality is best determined by what is good for today’s culture. Secularists do not believe that mankind can have a set of permanent values such as are taught in the Bible. Secularism pays lip service to tolerance and diversity, yet many times secularists are intolerant of those who look to the Bible as God’s standard for morality.

When the things of God are removed from schools, courtrooms, and congressional hallways, it naturally leads to a deterioration of personal morality. The acceptance of situational ethics does away with moral absolutes and dictates that there are no limits, no values, no real standards.

The more our nation embraces secularism, the more it becomes like ancient Israel, where “everyone did what was right in his own eyes” (Judges 17:6; 21:25). When the mindset is “if it feels good, do it!” wickedness, perversion, and sin become the norm. In a completely secularized society, marriage is disparaged, morality is mocked, and human life is devalued.

The truth is that, left to his own devices, man always descends to a lower level. Following the Bible’s precepts lifts us to a higher moral plane (Deuteronomy 4:7-8; 10:12-13; Proverbs 14:34). However, man has hardened his heart against God (John 12:40; Romans 1:18-22). We have sown to the wind and are in danger of reaping the whirlwind (Hosea 8:7).

Even the church is being impacted by secularism. Many churches are dealing less and less with the moral conduct of its membership for fear of offending them. After all, accommodating a wayward member is much easier than correcting him. However, the church cannot allow itself to become secularized. Jesus taught that, though we are _in_ the world, we’re not _of_ the world (Romans 2:2; James 4:4; 1 John 2:15).

Secularism promotes the idea that religion is nothing but a relic of the past. But the truth is, God exists, and we do need Him. Despite the claims of secular humanism, the Bible is God’s truth (John 17:17). As believers living in a secular society, we must “become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world” (Philippians 2:15, NKJV).

*Recommended Resource: *Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview by William Lane Craig & J.P. Moreland


----------



## CHACHA"G"

*Please all of you just watch this Program . .............. a must watch ................ 
*
@Horus , @Spring Onion , @WAJsal , @The Sandman , @The SC , @django , @Zibago , @Farah Sohail , @PAKISTANFOREVER , @PaklovesTurkiye , @F.O.X , @Mrc , @Patriots , @EAK , @Khafee , @Moonlight






*In UK 12 YEARS boy got jail for just saying love u Hitler!!!!!!!!!!! where are these human rights mafia.... this in program at 33:00. 
*
@Patriots *, Just look at these faces in red ........ LOL are they even know wtf is FB , look like , in NGOs ki barri ainak walli aunties kay gharoon main kam kernay walli oor walay!!!





*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Patriots

See this pig Shafi Burfat .......






Another Taarik Fatah in making .......


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818592713444651008
Lanati Shafi Burfat


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818558424401199104

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mrc

Patriots said:


> See this pig Shafi Burfat .......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Taarik Fatah in making .......
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818592713444651008
> Lanati Shafi Burfat
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/818558424401199104





This is the true purpose behind disappearance... make opportunity for these b@stards to rant against state...

I m sure either these people are just hiding or have been taken by own handlers

Denying holocaust is jailable offence in Uk and US...here people can curse our prophet and describe it on liberalism....

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Patriots

LoL


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/812331951982047232


CHACHA"G" said:


> *Please all of you just watch this Program . .............. a must watch ................
> *
> @Horus , @Spring Onion , @WAJsal , @The Sandman , @The SC , @django , @Zibago , @Farah Sohail , @PAKISTANFOREVER , @PaklovesTurkiye , @F.O.X , @Mrc , @Patriots , @EAK , @Khafee , @Moonlight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *In UK 12 YEARS boy got jail for just saying love u Hitler!!!!!!!!!!! where are these human rights mafia.... this in program at 33:00.
> *
> @Patriots *, Just look at these faces in red ........ LOL are they even know wtf is FB , look like , in NGOs ki barri ainak walli aunties kay gharoon main kam kernay walli oor walay!!!
> View attachment 368453
> *




Your observation is right ... These ladies are looking like maids of so-called liberal aunties .........

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## PakSword

Patriots said:


> See this pig Shafi Burfat .......




یہ عورتیں اپنے گھر کی ماسیوں کو بھی احتجاج میں ساتھ لے آئی ہیں... نمبر پورے کرنے کے لئے ​


Patriots said:


> LoL
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/812331951982047232



کسی گٹر سے لال بیگ بھی اتنے نہیں نکلتے جتنے آج کل یہ غدّار انٹرنیٹ سے نکلنا شروع ہوگئے ہیں 

ایک اچھے سپرے کی شدید ضرورت ہے 
​

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Patriots

PakSword said:


> یہ عورتیں اپنے گھر کی ماسیوں کو بھی احتجاج میں ساتھ لے آئی ہیں... نمبر پورے کرنے کے لئے ​
> 
> 
> کسی گٹر سے لال بیگ بھی اتنے نہیں نکلتے جتنے آج کل یہ غدّار انٹرنیٹ سے نکلنا شروع ہوگئے ہیں
> 
> ایک اچھے سپرے کی شدید ضرورت ہے
> ​




اور ایک خاتون پردے میں بھی ہیں


----------



## PakSword

Patriots said:


> اور ایک خاتون پردے میں بھی ہیں



بڑی گہری نگاہ رکھتے ہیں یار آپ تو 

ماسیوں کو ہٹا دیا جائے تو کل ملا کے تین لیڈیز کا احتجاج ہے یہ​

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mrc

PakSword said:


> بڑی گہری نگاہ رکھتے ہیں یار آپ تو
> 
> ماسیوں کو ہٹا دیا جائے تو کل ملا کے تین لیڈیز کا احتجاج ہے یہ​




wo bhi paid hain brother

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

> Denying holocaust is jailable offence in Uk and US



*USA has absolutely no laws denying the Holocaust.* Deny all anyone wants! The First Amendment works equally for all points of view.


----------



## Mrc

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> *USA has absolutely no laws denying the Holocaust.* Deny all anyone wants! The First Amendment works equally for all points of view.




Well thanks...what law was enforced when they invaded iraq for oil and killed half a million people... enlighten us

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

> they invaded iraq for oil



USA imports NO oil from Iraq.



> They are accused of posting material on their page is blasphemous.



So where is the Charge Sheet? What is the process defined under law for dealing with such alleged miscreants? Why is that law not being followed?


----------



## Mrc

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> USA imports NO oil from Iraq.




really.... this is getting some where... so they did it because they like lying to UN security council, fun of united nations, and kill half a million people in direct action and another million in indirect (ISIS and Syrian war).....

its all for fun was it?

so this is lawfull and a missing b@stard in Pakistan probably taken away by his handlers is a shame.......

come to senses and than debate if you like

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Valar Dohaeris

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> *USA has absolutely no laws denying the Holocaust.* Deny all anyone wants! The First Amendment works equally for all points of view.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial


----------



## VCheng

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial



Has anyone actually read that link? 

In the United States, the *First Amendment to the United States Constitution establishes freedom of expression and protects virtually all speech *(_including _"hate speech")."

By country

2.1Australia
2.2Austria
2.3Belgium
2.4Bosnia and Herzegovina
2.5Czech Republic
2.6France
2.7Germany
2.7.1§ 130 Incitement to hatred
2.7.2Other sections

2.8Greece
2.9Hungary
2.10Israel
2.11Italy
2.12Liechtenstein
2.13Lithuania
2.14Luxembourg
2.15Netherlands
2.16Poland
2.17Portugal
2.18Romania
2.19Russia
2.20Slovakia
2.21Spain
2.22Switzerland
No USA in that list.

=======================

BTW, what does the Pakistani Constitution say about Freedom of Speech and how does it apply to these five citizens of Pakistan?


----------



## Clutch

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> *USA has absolutely no laws denying the Holocaust.* Deny all anyone wants! The First Amendment works equally for all points of view.


Europe does.. And Canada

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial 



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> USA imports NO oil from Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> So where is the Charge Sheet? What is the process defined under law for dealing with such alleged miscreants? Why is that law not being followed?


Read their posts. It's in open.


----------



## VCheng

Clutch said:


> Read their posts. It's in open.



What is in the open? Expressing personal views? What crime under Pakistani law has been charged to warrant abduction, and most importantly, by whom?



Clutch said:


> Europe does.. And Canada



Not my problem.


----------



## Clutch

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> What is in the open? Expressing personal views? What crime under Pakistani law has been charged to warrant abduction, and most importantly, by whom?




I'm actually left leaning liberal... have atheists friends... and I am not overtly religious.. But if you start sweating at the Prophet and defiling the Quran you cross the line.

Otherwise... pakistan is for everyone for the Muslim shia, Sunni. Ahmadi, Christian, Hindu, Sikh, and atheists or agnostics. But never forget the country was founded on La-Ilaha-Illalah. Curse that... then pack you bags.

No, we have boundaries. We are Pakistan. Don't like it ... take a hike SOUTH across the border... you can swear at the Prophet calling him vile names while sitting in Modi's lap all day long.

Just as in Israel... defile Judaism and the Torah or Moses ... then pack your bags.



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Not my problem.



But your standard ... when it's convenient...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

Clutch said:


> I'm actually left leaning liberal... have atheists friends... and I am not overtly religious.. But if you start sweating at the Prophet and defiling the Quran you cross the line.
> 
> Otherwise... pakistan is for everyone for the Muslim shia, Sunni. Ahmadi, Christian, Hindu, Sikh, and atheists or agnostics. But never forget the country was founded on La-Ilaha-Ihhalah. Curse that... then pack you bags.
> 
> No, we have boundaries. We are Pakistan. Don't like it ... take a hike SOUTH across the border... you can swear at the Prophet calling him vile names while sitting in Modi's lap all day long.
> 
> Just as in Israel... defile Judaism and the Torah or Moses ... then pack your bags.



All of what you say is okay and I have no problem with it, any of it.

All I want to see is due process of law applied to ALL citizens. What _lawful _authority is being applied here?



Clutch said:


> But your standard ... when it's convenient...



Nope. My standards are _always _consistent.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## django

Farah Sohail said:


> When will you stand up for rights of people in Guantanamo bay?
> 
> @bold... Look who is talking? A person who supports all inhuman crimes of the mighty USA..... Should i remind you some activities of your beloved USA? Where were those weapons of mass destruction as claimed by USA? And for which a country like Iraq was destablised? How many ppl were killed there?
> 
> Enough with your lecturing......God... Your hypocrisy is mind boggling
> 
> @Horus i think time has come for members like him to be permanently banned.. No more waiting and watching


I hope mods take heed of your advice.Kudos


----------



## Clutch

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> All of what you say is okay and I have no problem with it, any of it.
> 
> All I want to see is due process of law applied to ALL citizens. What _lawful _authority is being applied here?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. My standards are _always _consistent.



I wholeheartedly agree... it should be done with due process... i am totally against vigilantly justice... against mob rule...

I am in the same sence against the blasphemy law...

Sorry then, I don't think i have an argument against you... i just thought you thought it was ok in Pakistan for neo-liberals to openly swear at the Prophet under the guide of free speech.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## django

malik_qasim said:


> one phrase, i believe shows the mentality of our nation, as the world says,
> stick and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.
> and in a semi tribal society, like ours we say,
> we will take out our sticks and pick stones the moment your words hurt me..
> well as it seems to be the collective wisdom of our entire nation that words do more damage then broken bones and cut off ears and noses, such things are justifiable.
> where dead rule beyond graves, living will always have a hard time living..
> that the story of our society..


OH NO Look who is is back.... @Chauvinist @war&peace @Moonlight @The Sandman

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

Clutch said:


> I wholeheartedly agree... it should be done with due process... i am totally against vigilantly justice... against mob rule...
> 
> I am in the same sence against the blasphemy law...



Exactly. I may not agree with anything they are accused of, but I will defend their right to due process of law. No matter what.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Clutch

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Exactly. I may not agree with anything they are accused of, but I will defend their right to due process of law. No matter what.


Sorry then, I don't think i have an argument against you... i just thought you thought it was ok in Pakistan for neo-liberals to openly swear at the Prophet under the guise of free speech.


----------



## VCheng

Clutch said:


> i just thought you thought it was ok in Pakistan for neo-liberals to openly swear at the Prophet under the guide of free speech.



I have clearly stated that anyone wishing to speak out in Pakistan has four clear choices: conform, adapt, leave or die. If you stay there, you have to follow the law, whatever it states.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mrc

IF speaking out means cursing at prophet ... leave or you will die rest assured... we will give a flying fck what your god power anerica thinks about that

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## war&peace

django said:


> OH NO Look who is is back.... @Chauvinist @war&peace @Moonlight @The Sandman


I thought he got permanently banned. Now he will start his usual crap with illogical rants agains the religion, nation and the country... really disgusting and a disgraceful

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## django

war&peace said:


> I thought he got permanently banned. Now he will start his usual crap with illogical rants agains the religion, nation and the country... really disgusting and a disgraceful


The little rascal just cannot help his self, such a sad case.



PakSword said:


> What I suspect that these morons (bhensa admins) aren't abducted by anyone.. They wanted to highlight an issue in front of the new US administration and other world powers that Pakistan is not a safe country for a non-Muslim and just like what Burma does to Muslims, Pakistani authorities do to its minorities.


An interesting supposition.


----------



## war&peace

django said:


> The little rascal just cannot help his self, such a sad case.


I have no problem when someone criticises Muslims especially when that's an honest and sincere opinion and observation as we have a lot of problems but it is really disgusting when some one cooks up fake facts and disgracefully spreads the lies on public forums. Lets report him

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## M. Sarmad

F.O.X said:


> Do you have any proof that agencies did it?, for all we know aliens abducted them....




https://defence.pk/threads/activist...-pakistan-defence.471867/page-14#post-9102156


Under all circumstances, regardless of our differences of opinions/ideologies, "extralegal" abduction/detention of social media activists should be condemned .. Many people believe that _IB_ (i.e. NS's Government), and not _MI _(Military Intelligence)_,_ is behind these abductions ... Or It may very well be the _doing_ of some "private organization" ... An attempt to malign our security agencies ... 

https://defence.pk/threads/activist...-pakistan-defence.471867/page-10#post-9097882

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## django

war&peace said:


> I have no problem when someone criticises Muslims especially when that's an honest and sincere opinion and observation as we have a lot of problems but it is really disgusting when some one cooks up fake facts and disgracefully spreads to lies on public forums. Lets report him


Indeed he is a little charlatan, Mods do need to look into him, I would not be surprised if he was from the other side of the Radcliffe line, I for one will be monitoring him very closely.Kudos



Well.wisher said:


> So who kidnapped admin of Bhensa?


Whoever it was, I would consider it an honour to shake their hands.Kudos

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Mrc

they have been taken by their own masters.... and probably never be found..... the other warewolfs will try to scream on top of their voices trying to malign isi and security agencies


----------



## mingle

Farah Sohail said:


> ..to be honest.. I liked his posts, where he bashed pseudo liberals... But now i am thinking..i was such an idiot...


Be late but be rite .


----------



## HAIDER

Azlan Haider said:


> A few people have gone missing .... _Supposedly_ they were the admins of a few fb pages that _allegedly_ posted Blasphemous/Anti-National content.
> 
> 
> Those people are missing, no one knows who abducted them (or what happened to them) ... That content (if any) has already been removed/deleted ..
> 
> 
> Moderate and sane Pakistanis opposing/criticizing these "Enforced Disappearances" and asking for _a_ _fair trial under the law of the land_ are being broadly labelled as pseudo-liberals and supporters of blasphemers/anti-national elements
> 
> 
> The Right-Wing extremists are having a field day
> 
> 
> End of Story


Well, if that's the story then forum members and rest of people putting there life in danger. That would leave another scar of weak judicial and political system of country. Nodoubt , everyone should support the law of land.



Imran Khan said:


> ab nhi sir ji . i am quit sitting behind . social media ho ya webs even YT her jaga tons of tons blasphemy ho rahi hai not only hamary mazhab ya firqy ke khilaf her kisi ke khilaf . isko 2-3 bandy paker ke band nhi kiya ja sakta . real problem is counter the arguments with argument . koi khuda ka banda hai ? as i know its happen after very long time once and then turn back as always .


Ya aik aisa masla ha ..jisko jitna dabain gaa utna uchala jai ga. ....muslmano ka sath argument ka masla ....itni akal hoti tu , west ko bhoot peecha chor choka hotaa....Every muslim want to go to west but also want to curse west.....samj nahi ati....
Allah hamari halat pa raham karaa..

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## The Sandman

django said:


> OH NO Look who is is back.... @Chauvinist @war&peace @Moonlight @The Sandman


ohh i remember him

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Patriots

Despite I am against religious extremism & mischieviousness but secular miscreants adopt double standard like this ......

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## F.O.X

Azlan Haider said:


> https://defence.pk/threads/activist...-pakistan-defence.471867/page-14#post-9102156
> 
> 
> Under all circumstances, regardless of our differences of opinions/ideologies, "extralegal" abduction/detention of social media activists should be condemned .. Many people believe that _IB_ (i.e. NS's Government), and not _MI _(Military Intelligence)_,_ is behind these abductions ... Or It may very well be the _doing_ of some "private organization" ... An attempt to malign our security agencies ...
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/activist...-pakistan-defence.471867/page-10#post-9097882


How is this a proof that agencies did this? Aren't you being hypocritical? You ask other for proof but are unable to provide any your self?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## M. Sarmad

F.O.X said:


> How is this a proof that agencies did this? Aren't you being hypocritical? You ask other for proof but are unable to provide any your self?



I didn't "accuse" our security agencies ... Read carefully Mr Think Tank !!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Patriots



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Farah Sohail

war&peace said:


> I thought he got permanently banned. Now he will start his usual crap with illogical rants agains the religion, nation and the country... really disgusting and a disgraceful



Who is he? What was his earlier id?


----------



## war&peace

Farah Sohail said:


> Who is he? What was his earlier id?


He was banned but got unbanned again..I don't know if he has any other id but his id: is malik_qasim and he spreads crappy and false info about Islam...most probably he is a false flagger and through our efforts he got banned and but now he is back.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## F.O.X

Azlan Haider said:


> I didn't "accuse" our security agencies ... Read carefully Mr Think Tank !!


You did ask a previous member here to bring proof that one the the ones missing is bhensa... Did you not? 

And sarcasm won't get you anywhere.... Neither will taunting...


----------



## M. Sarmad

F.O.X said:


> *You did ask a previous member here to bring proof that one the the ones missing is bhensa..*. Did you not?
> 
> And sarcasm won't get you anywhere.... Neither will taunting...



Yes, I did ...

I also asked those rejoicing over these _"Enforced Disappearances" _to bring proof that those guys (now missing) were involved in anti-national activities

I asked the PDF management not to support the _authorities picking up such activists _"illegally" ...

And I also asked those claiming that our security agencies were behind these abductions that how could they be so sure that our agencies were involved ...

But then you jumped in and declared me a _hypocrite_ without even bothering to read what I had written/posted

Didn't expect that from a senior/staff member

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## F.O.X

Azlan Haider said:


> Yes, I did ...
> 
> I also asked those rejoicing over these _"Enforced Disappearances" _to bring proof that those guys (now missing) were involved in anti-national activities
> 
> I asked the PDF management not to support the _authorities picking up such activists _"illegally" ...
> 
> And I also asked those claiming that our security agencies were behind these abductions that how could they be so sure that our agencies were involved ...
> 
> But then you jumped in and declared me a _hypocrite_ without even bothering to read what I had written/posted
> 
> Didn't expect that from a senior/staff member


Again you are talking about authorities pick them up.... What proof do you have of that?


----------



## EAK

Rumaysha Maqsood said:


> how can i post on defenc pk


You just did ..Or are you asking for facebook page of PDF


----------



## M. Sarmad

F.O.X said:


> Again you are talking about authorities pick them up.... What proof do you have of that?




Better ask that from the PDF Administration that what proof do they have that Authorities have picked them up, and why are they supporting this "illegal" action by our LEAs ...... I have been asking the same :

https://defence.pk/threads/activist...mins-of-pakistan-defence.471867/#post-9095980

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zarvan

Azlan Haider said:


> Better ask that from the PDF Administration that what proof do they have that Authorities have picked them up, and why are they supporting this "illegal" action by our LEAs ...... I have been asking the same :
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/activist...mins-of-pakistan-defence.471867/#post-9095980
> 
> View attachment 368589


Well we assume they are picked up by agencies and they did the right thing. We also hope more such liberal fools who think they can get away in Pakistan after abusing religion and spreading there crap needs to wake up and smell the coffee. These people will face the law and also others. The Party has just begun.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Chauvinist

django said:


> OH NO Look who is is back.... @Chauvinist @war&peace @Moonlight @The Sandman



Haven't seen anyone so desperate... Salam hai inhen..

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## war&peace

Kabaddi said:


> Hi guys there is one more page Pakistani Atheists on facebook who are posting extremely blasphemous pictures with notes, Kindly let me know how can I report them.
> 
> An example


You send the link to @Horus. He is taking action against them as far as I understand. If you share here and also tag him, I think it will get solved.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kabaddi

war&peace said:


> You send the link to @Horus. He is taking action against them as far as I understand. If you share here and also tag him, I think it will get solved.


This is the link
I can't post link how can I post link

https://www.facebook.com/pakistaniatheist/

OK posted.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

Azlan Haider said:


> Better ask that from the PDF Administration that what proof do they have that Authorities have picked them up, and why are they supporting this "illegal" action by our LEAs ...... I have been asking the same :
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/activist...mins-of-pakistan-defence.471867/#post-9095980
> 
> View attachment 368589



This was my advice to Webby at that time, and it still applies:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Patriots

Zarvan said:


> Well we assume they are picked up by agencies and they did the right thing. We also hope more such *liberal* fools who think they can get away in Pakistan after abusing religion and spreading there crap needs to wake up and smell the coffee. These people will face the law and also others. The Party has just begun.




They are not liberals ... They are secular facist or so-called liberals ...........

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zarvan

Patriots said:


> They are not liberals ... They are secular facist or so-called liberals ...........


https://web.facebook.com/pakistani.meeem/?ref=timeline_chaining

By the way found another page of liberals time to take them out.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Patriots

Zarvan said:


> https://web.facebook.com/pakistani.meeem/?ref=timeline_chaining
> 
> By the way found another page of liberals time to take them out.




This disgusting creature .......

@Horus Plz take care of them .........

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## F.O.X

Azlan Haider said:


> Better ask that from the PDF Administration that what proof do they have that Authorities have picked them up, and why are they supporting this "illegal" action by our LEAs ...... I have been asking the same :
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/activist...mins-of-pakistan-defence.471867/#post-9095980
> 
> View attachment 368589


again that is not the proof that any LEA did it ... now is it ?
and since you cannot even prove that Agencies did it ... how did it become illegal ? is webmaster a authentic source of information of Gov or Agencies ? 

So I will say it again ... what is the point to your rants ?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## malik_qasim

if a fanatic is a fanatic,
a conservative is a conservative,
then why not a liberal is a liberal..???
we call them pseudo liberal, desi liberals, fake liberals..
like we want to deny them the pleasure of even being called a liberal.
like deep down in our hearts we know that liberals thoughts are popular and them representing it in our society breaks our image of a conservative Utopian happy society...
problem arise when we start to define what a liberal should be rather then accepting what is defined by the world..
you will never hear the term 
pseudo fanatic being used.. because such term dont exist..


----------



## django

Chauvinist said:


> Haven't seen anyone so desperate... Salam hai inhen..


Any anti-Islam thread that emerges suddenly he seems to appear, what a desperate little charlatan he is.Kudos



The Sandman said:


> ohh i *remember* him


Best to forget him LOL!



Farah Sohail said:


> Who is he? What was his earlier id?


The same as his current id, whenever Islam is being insulted he seems to pop out of no where.



malik_qasim said:


> if a fanatic is a fanatic,
> a conservative is a conservative,
> then why not a liberal is a liberal..???
> we call them pseudo liberal, desi liberals, fake liberals..
> like we want to deny them the pleasure of even being called a liberal.
> like deep down in our hearts we know that liberals thoughts are popular and them representing it in our society breaks our image of a conservative Utopian happy society...
> problem arise when we start to define what a liberal should be rather then accepting what is defined by the world..
> you will never hear the term
> pseudo fanatic being used.. because such term dont exist..


OH *MOD EDIT*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Sardar Anees Abbasi

@Horus well done  

You did the great job against them
There is no place in Pakistan for these filthy Liberal Beghairat Brigade..

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

The silver lining of this issue is, that it showed the true face of some of our members as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Hammad Arshad Qureshi

Bhensa is actually found in School attacking children and these idiot liberals are blaming ISI and Pakistan Army @Zarvan

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## M. Sarmad

F.O.X said:


> again that is not the proof that any LEA did it ... now is it ?
> and since you cannot even prove that Agencies did it ... how did it become illegal ? is webmaster a authentic source of information of Gov or Agencies ?
> 
> So I will say it again ... what is the point to your rants ?




Duh !! ....

Of course that is not the proof that any LEA did it ... Neither I presented it as a Proof, Nor I claimed that LEAs did it ....
What are you on about ??

How did it become illegal ?? Well, "kidnapping" is always illegal no matter who the "kidnappers" are ... And all those rejoicing over these kidnappings/enforced disappearances are actually rejoicing over a "crime" ... 


You have nothing to discuss/debate ... You are only trying to argue/reply for the sake of argument. So please stop quoting me ...

Thank You


----------



## Hammad Arshad Qureshi

Azlan Haider said:


> Duh !! ....
> 
> Of course that is not the proof that any LEA did it ... Neither I presented it as a Proof, Nor I claimed that LEAs did it ....
> What are you on about ??
> 
> How did it become illegal ?? Well, "kidnapping" is always illegal no matter who the "kidnappers" are ... And all those rejoicing over these kidnappings/enforced disappearances are actually rejoicing over a "crime" ...
> 
> 
> You have nothing to discuss/debate ... You are only trying to argue/reply for the sake of argument. So please stop quoting me ...
> 
> Thank You


Haha kid take the high road . Your friends are currently in the hospitality of government institutions. They are taking good care of them

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HAIDER

Zarvan said:


> https://web.facebook.com/pakistani.meeem/?ref=timeline_chaining
> 
> By the way found another page of liberals time to take them out.


Yaar ....ya pages to koi or story sonata haan.................seriously , what 's going on ..Just look at this page and this what came out ...














@Imran Khan ya kia story chal rahi haa.... apna ko kuch samjh nahi arahi ... hope our country is not going toward hostile takeover by religious extremist ... now doubting seriously about some uncontrolled govt agencies ..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Well.wisher

Why are you guys wasting your so much time on these idiots ??



malik_qasim said:


> if a fanatic is a fanatic,
> a conservative is a conservative,
> then why not a liberal is a liberal..???
> we call them pseudo liberal, desi liberals, fake liberals..
> like we want to deny them the pleasure of even being called a liberal.
> like deep down in our hearts we know that liberals thoughts are popular and them representing it in our society breaks our image of a conservative Utopian happy society...
> problem arise when we start to define what a liberal should be rather then accepting what is defined by the world..
> you will never hear the term
> pseudo fanatic being used.. because such term dont exist..



Bhai why liberals talk so aaaaen baaaaen shaaaaeenn. . . Why do they not talk straight forward rather than twisting facts and defending themselves in a pervert sense if they truly are truthful ?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hell hound

Well.wisher said:


> Bhai why liberals talk so aaaaen baaaaen shaaaaeenn. . . Why do they not talk straight forward rather than twisting facts and defending themselves in a pervert sense if they truly are truthful ?


 when did that happen? i am a liberal and have never done any of the above things.


----------



## war&peace

Azlan Haider said:


> Better ask that from the PDF Administration that what proof do they have that Authorities have picked them up, and why are they supporting this "illegal" action by our LEAs ...... I have been asking the same :
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/activist...mins-of-pakistan-defence.471867/#post-9095980
> 
> View attachment 368589


Sir, Have you visited those pages, I visited two as shared by a member here and I couldn't read for more than a few minutes as the content is highly provocative, inflammatory and blasphemous and if any law is used to arrest them, we should totally support it and IF the agencies have done it I support them too but I would ask them to make it public IF they have done it. Freedom of speech does not mean you spread false propaganda against the state, nation and the religion. One can criticise a few practices by certain groups of Muslim people, liberals do criticise Mullah day in and day out but no one ever supported their arrest for that but these people are not liberals, they are anti-Islam and anti-state elements who are systematically and deliberately following certain agendas. Most of them have committed blasphemy multiple times on their blogs / pages and they must be dispatched to the hell. And if half a dozen foreign sponsored NGO auntiyan protest for them they must be crushed. The state needs to establish its writ, if action can be taken against religious extremists and terrorists why to spare the anti-religious terrorists?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## VCheng

Going to _any _FB page is a matter of _choice_. If one does not like the content, why visit it at all? Go to another FB page where the content is according to one's own views. Problem solved.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zibago

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Going to _any _FB page is a matter of _choice_. If one does not like the content, why visit it at all? Go to another FB page where the content is according to one's own views. Problem solved.


Can i run a pro isis page in US?
They glorified bla

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## HAIDER

Kabaddi said:


> Your country bro you are waving Pakistani flag also...seems false flager Iranian....
> 
> 
> These mulhadeen took advantage when we are busy with khawarij aka taliban and ttp.


Don't know much , but this Jibran guy really raise the voice against Lal masjid and whole Islamabad saw that. When Islamabad police refused to file FIR against these Mulana Burqa. On top this terrorist Mulla file FIR against Gen Musharraf ......imagine the power of these religious extremist .
P.S Jibran is sunni brother and also PTI candidate , one of my favorite people . Educated, clam and truthful

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kabaddi

HAIDER said:


> Don't know much , but this Jibran guy really raise the voice against Lal masjid and whole Islamabad saw that. When Islamabad police refused to file FIR against these Mulana Burqa. On top this terrorist Mulla file FIR against Gen Musharraf ......imagine the power of these religious extremist .


Shut up and change your flags.


----------



## HAIDER

Kabaddi said:


> Shut up and change your flags.


lol... Yes Sir... UAE flag is ok ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kabaddi

@Khafee 
Iranian and pro Iranian are really behind all the fitna around M.E but wants to gain in the name of ISIS and taliban..someone should ask them about hizbullah and Iranian insolvent in all the conflicts.



HAIDER said:


> lol... Yes Sir... UAE flag is ok ?


I am Pakistani and living/working in UAE..have problem?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kabaddi

HAIDER said:


> Tired of dealing with jahil .... another one.


Personal attack should be banned
@Khafee



HAIDER said:


> Tired of dealing with jahil .... another one.


Edited

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

HAIDER said:


> Tired of dealing with jahil .... another one.


Please don't resort to calling names. Kindly edit your post.

Lets just agree, to disagree and move on. After all we all love Pakistan and want what is best for it.



Kabaddi said:


> Personal attack should be banned
> @Khafee
> 
> 
> Only Iranian Mullahs are literate?right where people are being hanged just because they belongs to Sunni sect. SICk mullah...Khawarij = Rafizeen



Bhai Sahab, Calm down and don't resort to calling names. Kindly edit your post.

Lets just agree, to disagree and move on. After all we all love Pakistan and want what is best for it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kabaddi

Khafee said:


> Bhai Sahab, Calm down and don't resort to calling names. Kindly edit your post.
> 
> Lets just agree, to disagree and move on. After all we all love Pakistan and want what is best for it.


Agree "Edited"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

@Kabaddi @HAIDER 

We are here to discuss anti-Pakistani elements, not fight with each other. 

Now shake hands, like good decent gentlemen, and move on.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

> Can i run a pro isis page in US?



Of course. And people do. And KKK. And every other possible point of view too. All equally protected.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Musafir117

Haan logo kesa diya congrats Choudhry Nisar and " Team "

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kabaddi

Musafir117 said:


> View attachment 368678
> 
> Haan logo kesa diya congrats Choudhry Nisar and " Team "


He is and was wrong person but never disrespect Prophet PBUH like Bhensa group..and I have gut feeling you are one of them ain't you?


----------



## Musafir117

Kabaddi said:


> He is and was wrong person but never disrespect Prophet PBUH like Bhensa group..and I have gut feeling you are one of them ain't you?


grow up mentally physically and 923 more posts you need to quote me again sayonara


----------



## Patriots

malik_qasim said:


> if a fanatic is a fanatic,
> a conservative is a conservative,
> then why not a liberal is a liberal..???
> we call them pseudo liberal, desi liberals, fake liberals..
> like we want to deny them the pleasure of even being called a liberal.
> like deep down in our hearts we know that liberals thoughts are popular and them representing it in our society breaks our image of a conservative Utopian happy society...
> problem arise when we start to define what a liberal should be rather then accepting what is defined by the world..
> you will never hear the term
> pseudo fanatic being used.. because such term dont exist..




Please define the word "LIBERAL" .......

Actually you people are not liberal ... You just get labelled yourself as liberal ......

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zibago

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Of course. And people do. And KKK. And every other possible point of view too. All equally protected.


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/24/world/middleeast/isis-recruiters-social-media.html?_r=0
Dont lie please fbi does sting operation on social media holders of isis then arrests them

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Well.wisher

HAIDER said:


> Yaar ....ya pages to koi or story sonata haan.................seriously , what 's going on ..Just look at this page and this what came out ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Imran Khan ya kia story chal rahi haa.... apna ko kuch samjh nahi arahi ... hope our country is not going toward hostile takeover by religious extremist ... now doubting seriously about some uncontrolled govt agencies ..




Jibran nasir was just trying to be a smart kid and was trying to portray himself as a 'liberal and secular .
This idiot is not aware of consequences yet . 
He says PDF is run by some coward douce bags who dont want to talk under their real name . He called them immature bla blah . That's a trait of those who want some attention from public . 

*Jibran nasir you're just an idiot and wannabe liberal . Go .... yourself . Jibran nasir is just a crying kid that needs a pamper . Mama is not giving him any pamper so he's crying to PDF to give him free pampers . 

We all mature members here should ignore this crying silly kid and let him find his pamper on own . He's sooooooo immature and sooooooo chiildish. . Sorry no lift for you jibran kid and immature babies like u . Go go hush hush . 
Go cry somewhere else , don't full PDF by your tears . *


Hell hound said:


> when did that happen? i am a liberal and have never done any of the above things.



Malik qasim is talkin so aaaaen baaaaen shaaaaeenn. .

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Danish saleem

Zibago said:


> He was pro noon actually all of the so called liberal pages were anti pti and pro
> Noon they called every single protest againt govt as conspiracy by isi
> 
> Glad to know baboon league attracts such a patriotic crowd that mocks dead civilians at loc and justify and mock bombing of palestenians by Israelis
> 
> Name and shame all bitches who suppprt bhensa goons
> http://nation.com.pk/columns/14-Jan-2017/with-impunity
> @django @The Sandman @PaklovesTurkiye



i hope you also feel same on the views of Fouzia Qasori about Guy life style?

my Prophet SAWW respect is bigger then all, and for that i will not tolerate any one if that was NS or Zardari and Ik.

and Brother, please don't gave me the lessons, and try to tell your own leader to accept his third daughter Terrian in Media as his daughter.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zibago

Danish saleem said:


> i hope you also feel same on the views of Fouzia Qasori about Guy life style?


Whats a guy lifestyle?


Danish saleem said:


> my Prophet SAWW respect is bigger then all, and for that i will not tolerate any one if that was NS or Zardari and Ik.


Why is that all these pages are pro noon and mqm?
kuch to garbar hay 


Danish saleem said:


> and Brother, please don't gave me the lessons, and try to tell your own leader to accept his third daughter Terrian in Media as his daughter.


Sure after your leader accept responsibility for killing people in Model Town

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Danish saleem

Zibago said:


> Whats a guy lifestyle?
> 
> Why is that all these pages are pro noon and mqm?
> kuch to garbar hay
> 
> Sure after your leader accept responsibility for killing people in Model Town



my leader is My prophet SAWW, and his companions, and my parents do teach me not to follow blindly, NS , Zardari and IK all are corrupts, few are financially corrupt, and few are morally.but i know you will never say that.


----------



## Inception-06

Kabaddi said:


> He is and was wrong person but never disrespect Prophet PBUH like Bhensa group..and I have gut feeling you are one of them ain't you?




Are you a AGENT or something like that? I myself hate Bhensa, I am absolutely a Pakistani and will be that even if you put a knife on my neck! But it's wrong when you start to insult everyone here, expect of your own! How about clear yourself first and get first a respected position in this forum before insulting senior Members?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zibago

Danish saleem said:


> my leader is My prophet SAWW, and his companions, and my parents do teach me not to follow blindly, NS , Zardari and IK all are corrupts, few are financially corrupt, and few are morally.but i know you will never say that.


Killer of one man is killer of humanity no?







Danish saleem said:


> my leader is My prophet SAWW, and his companions, and my parents do teach me not to follow blindly


I root for the lesser evil


----------



## Danish saleem

Zibago said:


> Killer of one man is killer of humanity no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I root for the lesser evil



then ask your leader to came to media and ask forgiveness on supporting Taliban who killed thousand of thousand Civilians, Armed forces Personal.

I hope this time ziada zor ki aag nai lagi hogi


----------



## Zibago

Danish saleem said:


> then ask your leader to came to media and ask forgiveness on supporting Taliban who killed thousand of thousand Civilians, Armed forces Personal.







http://paktribune.com/news/Unfair-to-link-everything-to-ASWJ-Chaudhry-Nisar-Ali-278011.html
http://www.dawn.com/news/857697
*PML-N opposed his policies and rejected dictation from abroad and if the Taliban are also fighting for the same cause then they should not carry out acts of terror in Punjab *
@django @Moonlight @The Sandman @The Eagle @Hell hound
http://tribune.com.pk/story/210827/lejs-malik-received-monthly-stipend-from-punjab-govt/
The accused terror kingpin belonging to banned Sunni outfit Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LeJ), nominated in 44 cases in which 70 people were killed, allegedly received a monthly stipend, during imprisonment, from the Punjab government.


----------



## Kabaddi

Ulla said:


> Are you a AGENT or something like that? I myself hate Bensa, I am absolutely a Pakistani and will be that even if you put a knife on my neck! But it's wrong when you start to insult everyone here, expect of your own! How about clear yourself first and get first a respected position in this forum before insulting senior Members?


Same applies to you and yes I am agent 007


----------



## Inception-06

Kabaddi said:


> Same applies to you and yes I am agent 007



Do and write what you want, you are absolutely free! I don't care!


----------



## Kabaddi

*I request to PDF admins that Kindly create a Permanent thread on this forum for reporting Blasphemous contents from Pakistan by so called liberal Atheists. *

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

*Application seeking blasphemy case against missing activists filed in Islamabad*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## VCheng

> https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/24/world/middleeast/isis-recruiters-social-media.html?_r=0
> Dont lie please fbi does sting operation on social media holders of isis then arrests them



Being arrested for_ criminal activity_ (like attempted murder) is a different thing. Those sanctions were not made for expressing differring views, that is for sure.

===========================================

http://www.dawn.com/news/1308641/the-myth-of-two-extremes

*The myth of two extremes*
UMAIR JAVED

AT the time of writing, liberal activists Salman Haider, Waqas Goraya, Aasim Saeed, Ahmed Naseer, and Samar Abbas were still missing. There is little to suggest that they will be recovered by the time this piece goes into print. No organisation has claimed their abduction, while whatever limited investigation that has taken place so far has yielded nothing conclusive.

One can only look at the past and make historically informed conjectures about who is capable of picking up people from different parts of the country with great precision. However, one may think twice about airing such (highly plausible) suspicions for fear of being picked up as well.

*The incident has revealed something supremely rotten in Pakistan’s state and society. Instead of provoking unequivocal condemnation, the abduction of several activists has spawned mass indifference, or much worse, victim-blaming.* Some days ago, I was informed by a gentleman in Lahore that those missing were prominent ‘anti-state’ and ‘anti-Islam’ agents thus implying they deserved their fate.

*What lies on the other end of the social spectrum is a minuscule liberal population numbering no more than a few thousand households.*


For those unaware, the abducted individuals allegedly ran a rationalist Facebook page, which carried jokes and memes challenging dominant Islamist and statist narratives in Pakistan. No other allegation against them has surfaced yet. Let’s just take stock of this assertion: *we now live and breathe in an intellectual cesspool where Facebook posts are widely considered a serious threat to both the ‘fastest-growing religion in the world’ and a country designated as the ‘fortress of Islam’.*

*In the aftermath of these disappearances, one conservative ideologue stated that ‘liberal extremists’, such as the four in question, were actually worse than militants. The rationale underpinning this assertion was that the hurt caused by words lasts for far longer than the physical violence of actual terrorists. This is not an isolated viewpoint.* It is one shared by many others populating our airwaves and writing in mainstream media outlets.

The actual goal of such viewpoints is to show that somehow the average Pakistani is caught between two extremes. On the one hand, you have those who wish to turn Pakistan into a theocratic state, and are willing to deploy gruesome violence to achieve those ends. On the other, you have foreign-funded liberals, who want to turn Pakistan, its law books, and all who reside within its boundaries into a godless, amoral mass.

Caught between the two extremes, we are told, are moderate, centrist Pakistanis who wish to live moderate lives. All that this middle Pakistan wants to do is follow their traditional practices in peace without the imposition of violence or foreign-funded secularism.

In the past decade, there has been no bigger myth than the one of two equal extremes. In reality, we don’t live in a bipolar country. We live in a country with thousands of Islamist militants, many far-right fascists, a large swathe of very conservative people, and a small (though growing) mass of people who are increasingly okay with the idea that religious minorities may have equal rights.

What actually lies on the other end of the social spectrum is a minuscule liberal population numbering no more than a few thousand households spread across the country. This population is politically fragmented, internally incoherent, and limited in its outreach. In short, as far as political or social movements go, it is largely non-existent outside of the internet.

To date, the number of people killed by these designated liberal extremists who run rationalist web pages and protest against religious discrimination and persecution is zero. The number of people abducted or threatened by what is pejoratively called the candlestick mafia is also zero. However, the number of men, women, and children killed by Islamist extremists in just the last decade is estimated at more than 40,000.

No political party in Pakistan is running on a platform of vocal secularism. Only a couple of leaders have ever been willing to speak out against the blasphemy law, and one of them was killed. Instead of mass shame and condemnation, his killing resulted in an unceasing wave of whataboutery and victim-blaming from university educated, white-collar middle-class people. His killer, on the other hand, will have his first annual commemoration at Liaquat Bagh on March 1; and like his funeral last year, it will be attended by thousands.

*The myth of liberal extremism is a useful intellectual prop for those who share a great deal of moral and political affinity with far-right conservatives and organised Islamists, but are now wary of associating directly with their violent ways. In essence, by blaming people like Salmaan Taseer for his own murder, or by jumping through hoops to defend the abduction of liberal activists on grounds of national security and religious sensitivities, they create fertile ground for more obscurantism and extremism.*

By now, it is clear that Pakistan is not a particularly democratic state. Individuals go missing and the first thing that comes to mind is that the state is somehow complicit in this. In essence, we reside in a security state with some superficial democratic pretensions. Nevertheless, as big a problem as this seems, it is one progressives have been familiar with for a very long time.

What is far more disconcerting now, and what will certainly pose a far bigger challenge in the long run, is the mainstream societal support offered to ideas from a fascist playbook. *The belief that voicing support for religious minorities and their equal treatment is worthy of punishment is scary. Similarly, the belief that certain state institutions are in their right to pick up liberal activists merely for running a webpage is not the start of a slippery slope, it is quite some way down it. Worryingly, it is now apparent that we have no clear way of preventing our slide.*

_The writer is a freelance columnist._

umairjaved@lumsalumni.pk

Twitter: @umairjav

_Published in Dawn, January 16th, 2017_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Eagle

Zibago said:


> PML-N opposed his policies and rejected dictation from abroad and if the Taliban are also fighting for the same cause then they should not carry out acts of terror in Punjab



Well, the ruling/political class in Pakistan always had an excuse for everything. In Punjab, same people are actually utilized for political gain and power. In Sindh, many gangs are covered and provided shelter for the same job as well as like in Karachi. Sardars in Baluchistan used to do the same thing that gangs were widely used against the opposition so the thing is, they have to support such cults as being cowards sometimes. These type of people are actually afraid of results hence expect support from them and be safe and who knows, how many political leaders are hired guns by powers abroad for a specific cause. 

On topic: We can see a special set of people and group of Media is like bonkers. Those badmouths are missing and they would have many threats as well like from TTP etc due to provocation and TTP availing a chance to prove itself a Muslim defender though from both end, the purpose is to serve the master either TTP did it for sympathy among people or the gang did it to cause harm and anger in society and malign Pakistan. Picture is still unclear so soon we will hear about. 

Someone tried to take the game to next level but crying now desperately and having the taste of own medicine so let it be.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

The word "controlled" in the thread title should be changed to "abducted".

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## pzfz

umair's article is the usual claptrap of desi liberals. red-herring. void of any logic, reason, or evidence pertaining to the particular situation of absent online personalities. same script different writer.

bhensa and his ilk (innocent liberals) are guilty of aiding, abetting, and propagating for terrorism in balochistan, karachi, and sindh. they are not being accused of simple, innocent activism in support of secularism. and there's more out there - supporters of other shenanigans like balochdesh and pashtunisthan should (and will) also face the music. these characters are a disservice to the cause of true liberalism and secularism and are at best apologists and sympathizers for foreign-funded ethno-linguistic terrorism in pakistan. 

wonder if dabiq is part of free speech?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TankMan

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> *In the aftermath of these disappearances, one conservative ideologue stated that ‘liberal extremists’, such as the four in question, were actually worse than militants. The rationale underpinning this assertion was that the hurt caused by words lasts for far longer than the physical violence of actual terrorists. This is not an isolated viewpoint.* It is one shared by many others populating our airwaves and writing in mainstream media outlets.


The writer fails to take into account the fact that liberal extremists (or, more accurately,pseudo-Liberals), actually support the other extreme's narrative as well, inadvertently perhaps.

Look at Bhensa's famous tweet - "Islam is a _khooni _religion". That is exactly what the Taliban say - they say Islam is a violent religion.

The only difference is that the Taliban say we should 'embrace' 'religious' violence while the pseudo-Liberals say we should abandon Islam entirely (or, euphemistically, 'reform' the religion).

Both of their arguments are based the same basic idea - that Islam is inherently violent. That idea is fundamentally flawed and being a Muslim, I refuse to accept it.


Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The actual goal of such viewpoints is to show that somehow the average Pakistani is caught between two extremes. On the one hand, you have those who wish to turn Pakistan into a theocratic state, and are willing to deploy gruesome violence to achieve those ends. On the other, you have foreign-funded liberals, who want to turn Pakistan, its law books, and all who reside within its boundaries into a godless, amoral mass.


That is, essentially, the truth. Is that not the main goal of Pakistani secularists? To emulate the West?

If you want to protect minorities, you can do that within Islam. In fact, Islam strongly encourages it. That's actually what the much-maligned 'Dhimmi' concept is about - it actually means that it is Muslims' responsibility to protect minorities living within their countries, but it is often portrayed as reducing them to 'second class citizens' or something equally misleading. (note: I am aware of IslamQA's stance regarding blasphemy laws and disagree with it, but in this case their arguments are correct and supported by the scripture)

So, why not argue from this perspective? Why not attempt to reclaim religion from the fundamentalists?


Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> No political party in Pakistan is running on a platform of vocal secularism.


MQM. First thing on their website; "MQM is a liberal political party of Pakistan and believes in Realism and Practicalism".


Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> To date, the number of people killed by these designated liberal extremists who run rationalist web pages and protest against religious discrimination and persecution* is zero*. The number of people abducted or threatened by what is pejoratively called the candlestick mafia is also zero


That depends... MQM says it's secular. Do their crimes count? And if we look at a larger context - does the Soviet Union count?

Surely if ISIS counts as an example of religious extremism, the Soviet Union must be an example of secular extremism.

I know the author is talking about contemporary Pakistani secularists, but he seems to reject the idea that secular extremism can exist, which is why I brought up the Soviets.


Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The belief that voicing support for religious minorities and their equal treatment is worthy of punishment is scary.


Textbook example of a strawman argument.

Nobody is saying "voicing support for religious minorities deserves punishment". What people are saying is that Bhensa etc are focused on promoting separatism and insulting Islam with the express intent to incite a violent reaction- they are not 'activists' for religious minorities.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## M. Sarmad

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Going to _any _FB page is a matter of _choice_. If one does not like the content, why visit it at all? Go to another FB page where the content is according to one's own views. Problem solved.




And that exactly is how Allah tells us in the Holy Quran to deal with Blasphemers; avoid them :



*وَقَدْ نَزَّلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الْكِتَابِ أَنْ إِذَا سَمِعْتُمْ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ يُكْفَرُ بِهَا وَيُسْتَهْزَأُ بِهَا فَلَا تَقْعُدُوا مَعَهُمْ حَتَّىٰ يَخُوضُوا فِي حَدِيثٍ غَيْرِهِ ۚ 

*
_And it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation.... [4:140]_


----------



## VCheng

Azlan Haider said:


> And that exactly is how Allah tells us in the Holy Quran to deal with Blasphemers; avoid them :
> 
> 
> 
> *وَقَدْ نَزَّلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الْكِتَابِ أَنْ إِذَا سَمِعْتُمْ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ يُكْفَرُ بِهَا وَيُسْتَهْزَأُ بِهَا فَلَا تَقْعُدُوا مَعَهُمْ حَتَّىٰ يَخُوضُوا فِي حَدِيثٍ غَيْرِهِ ۚ
> 
> *
> _And it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation.... [4:140]_



Then why do these self-declared vigilantes take it upon themselves to voluntarily read such material by visiting pages they do not agree with?


----------



## M. Sarmad

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Then why do these self-declared vigilantes take it upon themselves to voluntarily read such material by visiting pages they do not agree with?



Because among Muslims, _The Holy Quran_ is the most revered, but the least understood Book ....... The most read, but the least followed one

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

Azlan Haider said:


> Because among Muslims, _The Holy Quran_ is the most revered, but the least understood Book ....... The most read, but the least followed one



What a pitiful state of affairs. And yet they try to force upon everyone else what they themselves do not understand? Pathetic!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## M. Sarmad

Hammad Arshad Qureshi said:


> Haha kid take the high road . Your friends are currently in the hospitality of government institutions. They are taking good care of them




Sir, they are not my friends ... Until a few days ago, I, just like 99.99 % of other Pakistanis, didn't even know that who those people were, and what were they up to .... But now thanks to a few right-wing zealots, they are _Internationally_ recognized _free-speech_ activists/martyrs .....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Abu Zolfiqar

Good work and keep these leftist Marxist jerks in check

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zibago

The Eagle said:


> Well, the ruling/political class in Pakistan always had an excuse for everything. In Punjab, same people are actually utilized for political gain and power. In Sindh, many gangs are covered and provided shelter for the same job as well as like in Karachi. Sardars in Baluchistan used to do the same thing that gangs were widely used against the opposition so the thing is, they have to support such cults as being cowards sometimes. These type of people are actually afraid of results hence expect support from them and be safe and who knows, how many political leaders are hired guns by powers abroad for a specific cause.
> 
> On topic: We can see a special set of people and group of Media is like bonkers. Those badmouths are missing and they would have many threats as well like from TTP etc due to provocation and TTP availing a chance to prove itself a Muslim defender though from both end, the purpose is to serve the master either TTP did it for sympathy among people or the gang did it to cause harm and anger in society and malign Pakistan. Picture is still unclear so soon we will hear about.
> 
> Someone tried to take the game to next level but crying now desperately and having the taste of own medicine so let it be.


Those who mock our dead shouldnt cry when state acts against them


Azlan Haider said:


> And that exactly is how Allah tells us in the Holy Quran to deal with Blasphemers; avoid them :
> 
> 
> 
> *وَقَدْ نَزَّلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الْكِتَابِ أَنْ إِذَا سَمِعْتُمْ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ يُكْفَرُ بِهَا وَيُسْتَهْزَأُ بِهَا فَلَا تَقْعُدُوا مَعَهُمْ حَتَّىٰ يَخُوضُوا فِي حَدِيثٍ غَيْرِهِ ۚ
> 
> *
> _And it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation.... [4:140]_


leave blasphemy argument aside his anti national narrative alone is enough for him to be arrested and dont give me excuse of we should ignore India arrested people for not standingip during anthem

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Abu Zolfiqar

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The word "controlled" in the thread title should be changed to "abducted".


Fair speech and rule of law are rights. Sedition and promoting anti national organizations and politics does not fall under the banner of "free speech"

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## mymeaningislion

Khafee said:


> A nobody, who talks form his behind.
> 
> Like ACE VENTURA..........
> 
> Who is forcing you to live in Pakistan?


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

So-called peace activist on hajj stampede that resulted in so much death.
I had mentioned earlier that my best friend died in that stampede.
if he can say thisopenlyy using his real name, I wonder what kind of expressions come out of his mouth using a moniker or a pseudonym.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Inception-06

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> View attachment 369024
> 
> So-called peace activist on hajj stampede that resulted in so much death.
> I had mentioned earlier that my best friend died in that stampede.
> if he can say thisopenlyy using his real name, I wonder what kind of expressions come out of his mouth using a moniker or a pseudonym.




Thats really sad, I pray for your friend, Inshallah he will get his place in janat !

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zibago

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The word "controlled" in the thread title should be changed to "abducted".


And anyone who mocks dead Pakistanis and spreads Indian propoganda in Pakistan deserves the same
You never visited bhensa page i did i know what filth he shared

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Kabaddi

Bhensa ab Muslamaan ho gaya so the many PDF wana be atheist liberals


----------



## VCheng

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Fair speech and rule of law are rights. Sedition and promoting anti national organizations and politics does not fall under the banner of "free speech"



Can you please quote the law that makes these abductions without any due process legal based on such accusations? If they are guilty of what you say, then let a competent authority present the evidence in court and follow procedure.

Right now, those abductors, whoever they might be, are just as much criminal as any other thug.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## M. Sarmad

Zibago said:


> leave blasphemy argument aside his anti national narrative alone is enough for him to be arrested and dont give me excuse of *we should ignore* India arrested people for not standingip during anthem



No, we should NEVER ignore Law/Constitution (or any breach thereof) .... Let the courts (after a fair and impartial trial) decide whether or not those so called activists committed blasphemy or a seditious conspiracy against the state or any other crime. Nobody (including LEAs) has the right to act as judge, jury and executioner.

And I am recommending/advocating supremacy of the law/constitution not as a commendable Western Secular principle but as a mandatory Islamic injunction

Regards ..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Musketeeer

Azlan Haider said:


> A few people have gone missing .... _Supposedly_ they were the admins of a few fb pages that _allegedly_ posted Blasphemous/Anti-National content.
> 
> 
> Those people are missing, no one knows who abducted them (or what happened to them) ... That content (if any) has already been removed/deleted ..
> 
> 
> Moderate and sane Pakistanis opposing/criticizing these "Enforced Disappearances" and asking for _a_ _fair trial under the law of the land_ are being broadly labelled as pseudo-liberals and supporters of blasphemers/anti-national elements
> 
> 
> The Right-Wing extremists are having a field day
> 
> 
> End of Story



It is a known fact that international community will not allow open trial and the Government will have to bear the consequences. In hidden things, one can hide exact numbers. So those demanding open trials may not be that innocent. 'MAY'



waleed3601 said:


> i absolutely would. but that's more of a personal thing since i've mastered the art of not giving a ****. they're mere words, and i know them to not be true, then why give a shit if you're abusing my father or my family, your loss of time and energy mate.
> and do you really believe what you said in the last line? molvis molest kids, brainwash them into becoming jihadists, collect money from honest muslims to fund terrorist activities, and what do liberals do? run facebook pages, write articles and protest with candles. there's a real problem with our society if it considers the latter more dangerous than the former.


Not all molvis molest kids(only few) and not all liberals are secular like bhensa.


----------



## Stag112

Azlan Haider said:


> No, we should NEVER ignore Law/Constitution (or any breach thereof) .... Let the courts (after a fair and impartial trial) decide whether or not those so called activists committed blasphemy or a seditious conspiracy against the state or any other crime. Nobody (including LEAs) has the right to act as judge, jury and executioner.
> 
> And I am recommending supremacy of the law/constitution not as a commendable Western Secular principle but as a mandatory Islamic injunction
> 
> Regards ..



Do you see the irony in people who celebrate such disappearances sporting DP of Jinnah who is considered a staunch constitutionalist by his admirers.

Looks like they share my opinion of Jinnah unwittingly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

Stag112 said:


> Do you see the irony in people who celebrate such disappearances sporting DP of Jinnah who is considered a staunch constitutionalist by his admirers.
> 
> Looks like they share my opinion of Jinnah unwittingly.



When people stop getting killed on the pretense of having eaten beef, when minorities are given their full rights, when the saffron chaddi brigade is limited to the zoo, then come and preach. Until then worry about how radicalized and fascist your country is becoming.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Musketeeer

HAIDER said:


> Yaar ....ya pages to koi or story sonata haan.................seriously , what 's going on ..Just look at this page and this what came out ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Imran Khan ya kia story chal rahi haa.... apna ko kuch samjh nahi arahi ... hope our country is not going toward hostile takeover by religious extremist ... now doubting seriously about some uncontrolled govt agencies ..


See the display picture of this page. Its of the owner of Bhensa.
They begin with such logics and when ppl start following them, they start polite blasphemy, and then extreme. 
Bhensa also started like this.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

Musketeeer said:


> See the display picture of this page. Its of the owner of Bhensa.
> They begin with such logics and when ppl start following them, they start polite blasphemy, and then extreme.
> Bhensa also started like this.



Why do the faithful go to read such pages at all? Just visit pages that express views similar to your own and there is no problem. What is this morbid desire to read blasphemous material?


----------



## Spectre

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Why do the faithful go to read such pages at all? Just visit pages that express views similar to your own and there is no problem. What is this morbid desire to read blasphemous material?



Who is to be blamed? Junkie or the drug dealer? alcoholic or the booze shop? In both cases one ought to know better but society holds the later responsible. Thus it was, it is and it will be. We started with poisoning Galileo for blasphemy, good to know we are sticking to our traditions.


----------



## VCheng

Spectre said:


> Who is to be blamed? Junkie or the drug dealer? alcoholic or the booze shop? In both cases one ought to know better but society holds the later responsible. Thus it was, it is and it will be. We started with poisoning Galileo for blasphemy, good to know we are sticking to our traditions.



Why is blame even necessary? The online world is too large and diverse to be censored in the manner that the faithful are trying to impose. Take down one such page and ten more will come up. What then? Let people say their personal views online, of all shades of thought.


----------



## The Eagle

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> View attachment 369024
> 
> So-called peace activist on hajj stampede that resulted in so much death.
> I had mentioned earlier that my best friend died in that stampede.
> if he can say thisopenlyy using his real name, I wonder what kind of expressions come out of his mouth using a moniker or a pseudonym.



Your friend died at a place that every Muslim wish to be that too while Performing Hajj. We pray and wish him the highest place in Jannah. Such low life shameless does not hold any effect or worth in these matters but can only bark so no need to pay any heed as your friend died on a noble occasion.



Zibago said:


> Those who mock our dead shouldnt cry when state acts against them



Indeed and yet it is not proven who took them but the way brigade is Blaming LEAs seems like a well planned strategy but first going under ground then start hue & cry against the State to malign while showing their true face against Islam and Pakistan. How come they are sure that it was LEAs and immediately came with such thought that reminds me of when MQM etc use to hit own guys then blame it upon State/ISI, even comes with pamphlets/banners within hours. I wish that Government must take strict action in this regard and bring them all to the court of justice with evidence of all their dirty works against Islam and Pakistan.

Senator Raza Rabbani, clear answer to USA & UK over interfering into Pakistan Internal Matter w.r.t. missing person case stated that it is purely our internal matter and we are looking into this also, why somebody do not speak over missing persons in Kashmir, Palestine. In other words not your problem and seems to be this brigade is widely supported that even Governments like US & UK have jump into this though the matter seems to be long rooted hence all the action (if Government has done).

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zibago

Azlan Haider said:


> No, we should NEVER ignore Law/Constitution (or any breach thereof) .... Let the courts (after a fair and impartial trial) decide whether or not those so called activists committed blasphemy or a seditious conspiracy against the state or any other crime. Nobody (including LEAs) has the right to act as judge, jury and executioner.
> 
> And I am recommending/advocating supremacy of the law/constitution not as a commendable Western Secular principle but as a mandatory Islamic injunction
> 
> Regards ..


There is a loophole in cyber crime law that can be exploited and I wont support any effort for release of those who mocked the death of Pakistanis



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Why is blame even necessary? The online world is too large and diverse to be censored in the manner that the faithful are trying to impose. Take down one such page and ten more will come up. What then? Let people say their personal views online, of all shades of thought.


It will be managed anti Pakistan activities will not be legalized

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HAIDER

Musketeeer said:


> See the display picture of this page. Its of the owner of Bhensa.
> They begin with such logics and when ppl start following them, they start polite blasphemy, and then extreme.
> Bhensa also started like this.


Picture is from some other site page.


----------



## Musketeeer

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Then why do these self-declared vigilantes take it upon themselves to voluntarily read such material by visiting pages they do not agree with?


It may have been ordered for a particular situation and particular time. Neither u neither I am eligible to comprehend it. At that time muslims were few, but now Pakistan is our country and we will not sit tight while someone ridicule our beloved.



HAIDER said:


> Picture is from some other site page.


It is of pakistani meem.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

Musketeeer said:


> we will not sit tight while someone ridicule our beloved.



So what is the plan? Try and shut down anything on the Internet that offends Pakistanis? More illegal abductions? Even if such material is banned within Pakistan, the rest of the world will continue to express itself. Such reactions only show the insecurity of both the people and the State.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HAIDER

Musketeeer said:


> It may have been ordered for a particular situation and particular time. Neither u neither I am eligible to comprehend it. At that time muslims were few, but now Pakistan is our country and we will not sit tight while someone ridicule our beloved.
> 
> 
> It is of pakistani meem.


Not from there , but anyone can post his statement on his page....doesn't mean to patronized and generalized.



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> So what is the plan? Try and shut down anything on the Internet that offends Pakistanis? More illegal abductions? Even if such material is banned within Pakistan, the rest of the world will continue to express itself. Such reactions only show the insecurity of both the people and the State.


Trust me Pakistani who live in Pakistan don't know anything about outside world. How many things we ignore ....its just a tip of iceberg .....


----------



## Musketeeer

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Why do the faithful go to read such pages at all? Just visit pages that express views similar to your own and there is no problem. What is this morbid desire to read blasphemous material?


How cute. You mean we should sit back and let them poison the minds of our youth. Are u really that innocent?
Its obligatory for us to leave the correct explanation for the matters they are discussing about islam


----------



## VCheng

Musketeeer said:


> How cute. You mean we should sit back and let them poison the minds of our youth. Are u really that innocent?
> Its obligatory for us to leave the correct explanation for the matters they are discussing about islam



The real question is why are the youth seeking out such material in the first place?


----------



## Musketeeer

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> So what is the plan? Try and shut down anything on the Internet that offends Pakistanis? More illegal abductions? Even if such material is banned within Pakistan, the rest of the world will continue to express itself. Such reactions only show the insecurity of both the people and the State.


We did it against the TTP, we will do it against these blasphemors.
_*In the authority of Abu Sa’eed al-Khudree (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) say, “Whosoever of you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then [let him change it] with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart — and that is the weakest of faith.” [Muslim]*_



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The real question is why are the youth seeking out such material in the first place?


1. Facebook shows it on its own.
2. They share some other justifiable posts which liberals and secular share. 
You are asking very silly questions.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

Musketeeer said:


> We did it against the TTP, we will do it against these blasphemors.
> _*In the authority of Abu Sa’eed al-Khudree (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) say, “Whosoever of you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then [let him change it] with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart — and that is the weakest of faith.” [Muslim]*_



MashaAllah. I wish you, and your kindred spirits, the very best of luck in your efforts.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Musketeeer

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> MashaAllah. I wish you, and your kindred spirits, the very best of luck in your efforts.


I am sure you mean sarcasm.


----------



## VCheng

Musketeeer said:


> I am sure you mean sarcasm.



No, I am sincere in wishing your efforts lots of luck. You will need it.


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

PakSword said:


> I think admins should amend the regulations of this forum that anyone talks bad about any religion will be immediately banned.


And then you'll have a pretty large chunk of Pakistanis (who cant refrain from derogatory comments about Hinduism/Hindus and Judaism/Jews) getting banned, if such a rule were to be applied fairly ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Musketeeer

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> No, I am sincere in wishing your efforts lots of luck. You will need it.


We will do what we can for ajar, Allah will set the course of events.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> And then you'll have a pretty large chunk of Pakistanis (who cant refrain from derogatory comments about Hinduism/Hindus and Judaism/Jews) getting banned, if such a rule were to be applied fairly ...



Wisely, there is a lot of "flexibility" in the way rules are applied for the betterment of the forum.


----------



## M. Sarmad

Zibago said:


> There is a loophole in cyber crime law that can be exploited and I wont support any effort for release of those who mocked the death of Pakistanis



What loophole are you talking about ? Elaborate please


No one is supporting any efforts for release of those who committed (any) crime but it is a settled law that accused, unless proved guilty, is presumed to be innocent.


*Article 10 A* of the Constitution of Pakistan states:

Right to fair trial:
_
For the determination of his civil rights and obligations or in any criminal charge against him a person shall be entitled to a fair trial and due process_


So, until and unless the "accused" are produced before a court of law and the guilt of the accused has been established beyond reasonable doubt, they will be presumed innocent

I believe it is worse to convict/punish innocent people than to acquit guilty people, and I won't support any effort to undermine/violate the constitution of Pakistan, or denial of basic rights to any citizen of Pakistan.

Regards.



Musketeeer said:


> It may have been ordered for a particular situation and particular time. Neither u neither I am eligible to comprehend it. At that time muslims were few, but now Pakistan is our country and we will not sit tight while someone ridicule our beloved.
> .



The Holy Quran says that Allah is the ultimate judge and legislator, and that the Muslims should judge according to the divine revelation. The Holy Quran does not prescribe any worldly punishment for blasphemy. But it clearly tells us to avoid blasphemers/blasphemy. The validity of moral/legal Quranic regulations is not time or context bound

As for _our_ _ineligibility to comprehend Quran, _again your understanding of Quran is in contradiction with clear Quranic verses. Allah repeatedly tells us in the Holy Quran that he has made Quran easy to understand and remember




Musketeeer said:


> We did it against the TTP, we will do it against these blasphemors.
> _*In the authority of Abu Sa’eed al-Khudree (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) say, “Whosoever of you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then [let him change it] with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart — and that is the weakest of faith.” [Muslim]*_



Distortion by Hadith and traditional tafsirs is a major obstacle in our understanding of the true messages of the Quran. Thus a most serious reason of our misreading of the Quran is the centuries-old fossilization of the traditionally accepted ‘meanings’ of its words and narrations – often through unreliable secondary materials.

Anyway, I suggest you to read Imam Nawawi's explanation of this hadith. Only the state has the right to use hand/force. Scholars can use their tongue .... It's not for ordinary men like you or I to _change evil with our hands 

_
Regards

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mrc

I dont think there can be argument about

Right of free trial.. ...

But why is every one just persuming they hve been taken by state??? 
Why not to just malign the state like in sabeen mahmood case


----------



## Abu Zolfiqar

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Can you please quote the law that makes these abductions without any due process legal based on such accusations? If they are guilty of what you say, then let a competent authority present the evidence in court and follow procedure.
> 
> Right now, those abductors, whoever they might be, are just as much criminal as any other thug.



The only time "abduction" is justified is if there's a credible threat to national security so either there's information you and I don't have; or the govt (if he is under govt detention) should bring him before a civil court.



Zibago said:


> And anyone who mocks dead Pakistanis and spreads Indian propoganda in Pakistan deserves the same
> You never visited bhensa page i did i know what filth he shared



Can you explain some of the material? I never saw this page (nor want to give it page attention). But I am curious



Mrc said:


> I dont think there can be argument about
> 
> Right of free trial.. ...
> 
> But why is every one just persuming they hve been taken by state???
> Why not to just malign the state like in sabeen mahmood case



Militant groups most likely did it. They murdered Ms Mahmud. But certain people will of course blame "agencies" to malign them

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zibago

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Can you explain some of the material? I never saw this page (nor want to give it page attention). But I am curious


The old admins have been arrested and new the page was taken down the content you will see now under bhensa page is not the content original admins posted which included item songs videos with tilawat sound behind them,stupid cartoons mocking state of Pakistan and death of Pakistani civilians and soldiers,glorifying bla activities
They can easily be booked under article 6


----------



## Patriots




----------



## VCheng

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> The only time "abduction" is justified is if there's a credible threat to national security



Really? Can you please show me which law in Pakistan states that justification for abduction of its citizens within its jurisdiction? Or is it just another illegal power that "noble warriors" seem to have granted themselves?

==================================

Any PDF member beaten up? Or doing the beating? 

http://www.dawn.com/news/1309168/pu-student-tortured

*PU student tortured*
THE NEWSPAPER'S STAFF REPORTER 

LAHORE: A student of the Punjab University Law College was tortured by some students for allegedly tweeting in favour of a missing blogger on Tuesday.

The student, a resident of hostel number 1, had allegedly tweeted in support of the missing activist and blogger and shared a poem of Faiz Ahmad Faiz to express solidarity with him.

A PU official told Dawn a group of students reached the student’s room and beat him up. The victim had to get medical aid. He refused to talk to Dawn.

The PU spokesman said VC Dr Zafar Mueen Nasir had ordered probe into the matter and a case would be registered against the culprits.

_Published in Dawn, January 18th, 2017_


----------



## Muzamil1122

EAK said:


> Yes @Horus ..Good work indeed.. following your efforts from sometime now.. You really put some fireworks in 5th columns pants..Thumbs up


Great job done by you keep your good job going and expose these traitor brigades


----------



## Abu Zolfiqar

Muzamil1122 said:


> Great job done by you keep your good job going and expose these traitor brigades



They come out from their tiny dens time
To time to malign Pakistan just for the sake of attention. They spew negativity, Marxism and anti army drivel while parroting lines that would be used only by the enemies of Pakistan. Meanwhile you have ACTUAL human rights and freedom of speech advocates who can still get along with everyone and not malign the state. 

Saleem Shehzad was an example of a journalist desperate for attention, Hamid Mir too. Ignored security threats (I respect that) but maligned state institutions while meeting and being in contact with dangerous people. Then people cry when they get abducted or attacked. They know the risks of their job



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Really? Can you please show me which law in Pakistan states that justification for abduction of its citizens within its jurisdiction? Or is it just another illegal power that "noble warriors" seem to have granted themselves?
> 
> ==================================
> 
> Any PDF member beaten up? Or doing the beating?
> 
> http://www.dawn.com/news/1309168/pu-student-tortured
> 
> *PU student tortured*
> THE NEWSPAPER'S STAFF REPORTER
> 
> LAHORE: A student of the Punjab University Law College was tortured by some students for allegedly tweeting in favour of a missing blogger on Tuesday.
> 
> The student, a resident of hostel number 1, had allegedly tweeted in support of the missing activist and blogger and shared a poem of Faiz Ahmad Faiz to express solidarity with him.
> 
> A PU official told Dawn a group of students reached the student’s room and beat him up. The victim had to get medical aid. He refused to talk to Dawn.
> 
> The PU spokesman said VC Dr Zafar Mueen Nasir had ordered probe into the matter and a case would be registered against the culprits.
> 
> _Published in Dawn, January 18th, 2017_



Yes, really

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Yes, really



Okay. Can you please show me which law in Pakistan states that justification to support your claim? Thanks!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The Eagle

Jibran Nasir and Co needs to see this protest as well...... People demands death penalty...

Though it's another question that are they with authorities or hiding somewhere but public voice is worth noting...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mutakalim



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

> public voice is worth noting



Yes, but following the LAW is NOT a popularity contest. Otherwise, why not vigilante justice rule society. Oh wait ......


----------



## A.A. Khan

Saw aamir liaquat show about these animals the har#mi foreign paid jounalists like munizae jahangir, talat hussain, google shahzeb khanzada, etc have been crying for tjem. These media kanj*rs should be put on trial and suspended from their channels. Pretty sure if state doesnt take action any other source will like sabeen mahmud & blame their favorite targets.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sugarcane

These so called liberals are not less trouble for society than the radical mullah brigade, both should be eliminated from Pakistan to maintain peace. We should offer the western countries who have sympathy with them and criminals to take them to their countries in order to save them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mutakalim

Bring these Bastards in courts and hang them so that these so-called liberals could understand that "This country is not created to ridicule Islam". Get rid of all kind of extremism.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## A.A. Khan

LoveIcon said:


> These so called liberals are not less trouble for society than the radical mullah brigade, both should be eliminated from Pakistan to maintain peace . We should offer the western countries who have sympathy with them and criminals to take them to their countries in order to save them.


Wah kya STupid idea hai so these liberal haraamzaadas can be funded & easily 
operate from abroad. More tarek fatah tahir goras in the making. For money & fame this harami brigade can fo aftwr their own mother. Worst leeches on earth who look upto no one


----------



## Sugarcane

A.A. Khan said:


> Wah kya STupid idea hai so these liberal haraamzaadas are funded & operate from abroad. More tarek fatah tahir goras in the making. For money & fame this harami brigade can fo aftwr their own mother. Worst leeches on earth who look upto no one



?????


----------



## MadDog

Right wing fascists and Leftist Fascists are two sides of the same coin and need to be neutralized in a smooth manner. ZarbeAzb neutralized TTP, Maulvi Ishaq & co and successor Asif Chotu was nailed in an encounter. It is time to decapitate the left wing fascists supporting ethnofascist terrorists.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mutakalim

Zibago said:


> Yep rumors are the abducted fellows are the admins if they are not they should be released but if they are they should not be freed for life


Bring them in the courts, hang them and make an example out of them so that people don't spread their filth on social media and society.


----------



## The Eagle

> but following the LAW is NOT a popularity contest.



People demanding Justice like black asking in US or Trump thoughts about Muslims.... Oh wait that is US.... Muslim woman attacked due to Veil.... Oh wait.....

The quoted words are mere dark side of painted picture about Pakistan and it is the law that they are hanged yet because they are not with the authority...on impartial view, every society has it's consequences, No? Student shootings, if the shooter is not Muslim especially Pakistani then law and all has excuses like disturbed childhood man attacked or mentally ill or financially lost boy done it but we never hear about white man attacked the Blackman being racist, Christian attacked people or an American white Christian/Jew attacked and killed many.... 

The question is either they are hanged due to public or as per law as neither happened nor they are in custody yet, mere assumptions are a mindset for defamation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mutakalim

waleed3601 said:


> no place for free thinkers these days. not in al bakistan.


These kinds of free thinkers should find their place in Al Kufristan. Pakistan is Islamistan and Inshallah it will always be Al Islamistan.



RealNapster said:


> ..
> ..
> Just an Hour ago i come to know all this drama due to my exams (thank God Mukh gaye) ... Then i searched a little bit about this matter and found a "this Post" from "Bhensa" page and i was like WTF MAN.
> ..
> 
> 
> 
> I am not labeling some one NON-Muslim or anti-Islam as i am not eligible to do so. But this is insane.
> ..
> ..


Could you please remove those images. Copying filth and garbage is not necessary to make your point. These images are hurting people's heart and minds. We should bury these images just like their creators are buried

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## RealNapster

Gillani88 said:


> @Khafee @Horus @waz @Irfan Baloch



why you have to quote so many persons (mod's) just to ask me a simple thing ? And for your kind info the reason to post something in my post was not to justify my "point".. it was supposed for those who think "bhensa ko band karky ghalat kia hay.. adalat me laao garo se mat uthaao.........

Refer to Post # 64 where i actually explained why i put this thing in my Post. i don't have to prove my point. i am not answerable to any of you people. why would i use such Blaspheme material to prove my Point .. ?


----------



## Mutakalim

Khanate said:


> I don't endorse anything Bhensa stands for or his anarchist mindset but we, as Muslims, need to face these people instead of coddling our people. Logic can used and abused so use your mental faculties and argue back. Use their tactics on them. Don't just sit back and hope government or some patriotic Pakistani will do something.


Logic is used when Logic is presented. If people start creating nonsense like this then "Sword" is the way to go.


----------



## RealNapster

Gillani88 said:


> Logic is used when Logic is presented. If people start creating nonsense like this then "Sword" is the way to go.





RealNapster said:


> Refer to Post # 64 where i actually explained why i put this thing in my Post. i don't have to prove my point. i am not answerable to any of you people. why would i use such Blaspheme material to prove my Point .. ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mutakalim

RealNapster said:


> why you have to quote so many persons (mod's) just to ask me a simple thing ? And for your kind info the reason to post something in my post was not to justify my "point".. it was supposed for those who think "bhensa ko band karky ghalat kia hay.. adalat me laao garo se mat uthaao.........


I fully understood your point. Four to five days have been passed, people have seen your post and now it's time to remove them. Anyway, it's up to you.


----------



## RealNapster

Gillani88 said:


> I fully understood your point. Four to five days have been passed, people have seen your post and now it's time to remove them. Anyway, it's up to you.



Don't know why, but i am unable to edit those previous posts. i checked. there is no such option like "edit or delete" .. it only have "report" option. 

so...............................


----------



## Mutakalim

RealNapster said:


> Don't know why, but i am unable to edit those previous posts. i checked. there is no such option like "edit or delete" .. it only have "report" option.
> 
> so...............................


Try refreshing it by logging out.


----------



## RealNapster

Gillani88 said:


> Try refreshing it by logging out.



Nothing happened.

I will quote some mod friends later. it's too late now. many of them will be sleeping right now.

and before you tag army of mod's . first at least ask the person who you quoting. if he decline, 
then 

@The Sandman .Sir i am unable to edit/delete a post of mine in this thread. can you help me in this ?


----------



## The Sandman

RealNapster said:


> @The Sandman .Sir i am unable to edit/delete a post of mine in this thread. can you help me in this ?


You could've been banned or maybe it's just a bug but let me tag @Zaki try signing in/out and pls don't call me sir yr :p
P.S it's 19th jan @Zibago

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

> Oh wait that is US.... Muslim woman attacked due to Veil.... Oh wait.....



LOL. Rule of law is _practiced _in USA, with or without public popularity being a legal consideration. And which veiled hijabi is being referred to - the one that got drunk and lied, or the one who just plain made things up? 

Trump's views and thoughts are just as protected as anybody else's free speech, no more and no less. Perhaps there is a lesson here for those who still have some faculties left?


----------



## Mutakalim

The Sandman said:


> Let Allah handle that? they're ignorants i mean the more you arrest ppl like them more ppl like them will come up.


So they should be given a free hand to ridicule Islam openly and let Allah decide about them. If this is the solution then my friend you people will forget the case of Salman Taseer. The best way to control people emotions and to restrict their anger towards blasphemers is to control blasphemy. Give them due process of justice and if blasphemy is established then Law should take its course. 

Astonished to read such comments.


----------



## RealNapster

The Sandman said:


> You could've been banned or maybe it's just a bug but let me tag @Zaki try signing in/out and pls don't call me sir yr :p



na bro. i am not banned. maybe it's just a bug. 

i tried. didn't worked.



The Sandman said:


> P.S it's 19th jan @Zibago



hahaha... Yes. i remeber. even i have saved this snapshot. but will bring this matter a bit latter. because i have presentation at 11 am. working for it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hyde

The Sandman said:


> You could've been banned or maybe it's just a bug but let me tag @Zaki try signing in/out and pls don't call me sir yr :p
> P.S it's 19th jan @Zibago
> View attachment 369521


Juni9r members can't edit posts. I have deleted one of his post

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Clutch said:


> Are those people the Bhensa People in Dawn news? ... never heard about this till now...
> 
> Pakistani Liberals are turning into Salman Rushdie's. ...


all libratrds are each other friends even of they'vee never met! 
Yor entire english press is in that category.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mutakalim

Azlan Haider said:


> The Holy Qur'an does not prescribe any worldly punishment for committing blasphemy, but it does prescribe severe punishment for spreading Mischief/Fitna ...


The Holy Quran is not the only source of Shariah.


----------



## RealNapster

Gillani88 said:


> Try refreshing it by logging out.




it has been removed. check.



Zaki said:


> Juni9r members can't edit posts. I have deleted one of his post




What ? i am a junior member ?? 

Btw how many post are required for promotion ? i.e; to be called a "Senior member" ? 3000 ?

And thanks for helping.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Sandman

Gillani88 said:


> So they should be given a free hand to ridicule Islam openly and let Allah decide about them. If this is the solution then my friend you people will forget the case of Salman Taseer. The best way to control people emotions and to restrict their anger towards blasphemers is to control blasphemy. Give them due process of justice and if blasphemy is established then Law should take its course.
> 
> Astonished to read such comments.


_"When ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme_." [Qur'an 4:140]

"_Hold to forgiveness, command what is right; but turn away from the ignorant." _[Qur'an 7:199]

"_Allah is with those who restrain themselves._" [Qur'an 16: 128]

". . . _But they uttered blasphemy . . . if they repent, it will be best for them, but if they turn back, Allah will punish them._" [Qur'an 9:47]
do it but you're going against Quran.


RealNapster said:


> Btw how many post are required for promotion ? i.e; to be called a "Senior member" ? 3000 ?


2000 ur close


Zaki said:


> Juni9r members can't edit posts. I have deleted one of his post


wait what? iirc when i was a junior i was able to do that...



RealNapster said:


> hahaha... Yes. i remeber. even i have saved this snapshot. but will bring this matter a bit latter. because i have presentation at 11 am. working for it.


All the best for it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mutakalim

malik_qasim said:


> one phrase, i believe shows the mentality of our nation, as the world says,
> stick and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.
> and in a semi tribal society, like ours we say,
> we will take out our sticks and pick stones the moment your words hurt me..
> well as it seems to be the collective wisdom of our entire nation that words do more damage then broken bones and cut off ears and noses, such things are justifiable.
> where dead rule beyond graves, living will always have a hard time living..
> that the story of our society..


Why don't you state your point openly in simple English so that we people of semi-tribal society could understand?


The Sandman said:


> _"When ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme_." [Qur'an 4:140]
> 
> "_Hold to forgiveness, command what is right; but turn away from the ignorant." _[Qur'an 7:199]
> 
> "_Allah is with those who restrain themselves._" [Qur'an 16: 128]
> 
> ". . . _But they uttered blasphemy . . . if they repent, it will be best for them, but if they turn back, Allah will punish them._" [Qur'an 9:47]
> do it but you're going against Quran.


What are you trying to establish exactly so that I could understand it better?


----------



## The Eagle

> LOL. Rule of law is _practiced _in USA, with or without public popularity being a legal consideration. And which veiled hijabi is being referred to - the one that got drunk and lied, or the one who just plain made things up?
> 
> Trumps views and thoughts are just as protected as anybody else's free speech, no more and no less. Perhaps there is a lesson here for those who still have some faculties left?



Can't even lol when reading about how rule of law is being practiced in US.... Oh wait.... Selective indeed...... That no heed to all racist attacks, there is no terrorist attack until & unless the person is not Muslim especially Pakistani..... Recently pupil shot classmates but was mentioned whether he is a Christian or Jew etc except Muslim white male...... Oh wait... Great laws on paper and presentation.... US asking for law in other countries may also look at Palestine but oh wait..... That is about Muslims so no need ....But...... Badmouth, blasphemers, provoking others gone missing and police arrived to talk about law..... Senator Rabbani politely reminded about such people to mind your own business as in other words, watch your own house and the law implementation but oh wait...... When it comes to a Muslim woman attacked and justice..... Has been turned into drunken and what not ....Indeed, a victim card usually played as an excuse...M freedom of speech....M oh wait man opposed Trump but thrown out of campaign gathering/during speech...... Freedom of speech means not to forget ethics, limits and be respected ... But oh wait.... It's US... US has the law but black man killed in suspicion being black.... Freedom of speech that widely insulting others including black, Muslims but not others.... Law that never share Criminal religion or colour if he is not Black or Muslim.... Coming from the country that history is full with illegal activities against native Americans..... Oh slavery..... Many lessons learned but still meddling in others affairs that even so-called educated lot is blinded due to selective reading and mindset.....Oh selective reading reminds me about WMDs in Iraq killed thousands, hanged the leader on so-called forged story of public demand and law yet caused a never ending unrest and chaos.... Oh ... It's US so don't speak about..... Nor to lol.....

Whosoever try to insult Islam and Pakistan, will face the Justice after arrest. Our land, our law, our people and if somebody wants to be the cheerleader for such anti-Pakistan and anti-Islam cults, US & UK invoke any jurisdiction before any Court of LAW to prove otherwise, let us handle our matters.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Sandman

Gillani88 said:


> What are you trying to establish exactly so that I could understand it better?


That we can't punish those retards for blasphemy because it's against teachings of Quran and Prophet (remember he spared a whole city who insulted him threw stones at him?) BUT we can and we should punish/hang them for anti Pak activity and for supporting terrorist organizations.


----------



## VCheng

> Whosoever try to insult Islam and Pakistan, will face the Justice after arrest. Our land, our law, our people and if somebody wants to be the cheerleader for such anti-Pakistan and anti-Islam cults, US & UK invoke any jurisdiction before any Court of LAW to prove otherwise, let us handle our matters.



Good. What law in Pakistan gives the authority to abduct citizens without presenting charges in a court of law? Who has arrested them? What are the charges? Where is the law here?



> BUT we can and we should punish/hang them for anti Pak activity and for supporting terrorist organizations.



Okay. What is the evidence for accusing them of these charges?


----------



## django

Goraya the swine further exposed

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mutakalim

PakSword said:


> People don't understand that protecting ideological boundaries of Pakistan is equally important..
> 
> Pakistan was separated from India on the basis of two nation theory. There was a reason that people voted for "Muslim" Leagues demand of a separate state for Muslims where they could follow their religion without any hurdle or fear of persecution.
> 
> There is a reason Quaid e Azam and Allama Iqbal defended Ghazi Alam Deen Shaheed despite knowing he was the killer of a blasphemer. So much clarity how our Quaid would have behaved had he seen such material circulating on social media today. These people should not even call themselves Pakistanis as the founders of this country sided with a killer of a blasphemer.
> 
> Don't know why some Pakistanis only want to defend the physical boundaries, not the ideological sanctity. They make huge noise when someone tears apart the copies of constitution, but say that it is ok to not condemn if someone disrespects Quran.. For them Pakistani flag is more important than Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). They have forgotten that Pakistan is actually Islam.. Either they should go back in time and "enlighten" Quaid and Allama Iqbal, and all other leaders that what they were standing for was in fact a mirage. Real objective was to implement atheism and free speech even if it had resulted in insulting religions. They would have immediately told these supporters of scumbags that if this was the case, why strive for a separate country? Lets continue to live in Mutahida Hindustan.
> 
> Free speech doesn't mean that you start insulting prophets and religion and when you get nabbed, start crying foul. Pakistan is fortunately Islami Jamhoria Pakistan. The constitution gives rights to all the minorities but also the laws have been made to punish those who insult Islam. And these laws are the laws of land, based on the true ideology of Pakistan. Anyone who has any problem should just leave or keep their mouths shut.


Your post deserves a positive rating. Lots of respect.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The Eagle

> Good. What law in Pakistan gives the authority to abduct citizens without presenting charges in a court of law? Who has arrested them? What are the charges? Where is the law here?
> 
> 
> 
> Okay. What is the evidence for accusing them of these charges?



These are mere allegations but repeating the same again & again, despite replied several times, actually describes the real anxiety and desperation to malign Pakistan and Authorities because, no one abducted them but they are missing, gone,,, poofff..... So let them be arrested first then all the allegations, charges, who arrested, the law, the punishment, Court verdict etc everything will be shared...... So all this comes next when arrested..... Till then, authorities are looking into the matter...... contrary to what few media house bad-mouths are propagating....

In layman's terms, they are not arrested so there are no details of their whereabouts... Who abducted, is still unknown.... Because they are missing and none claimed their abduction etc hence, an assumption... Keep watching.... Details will be shared....


----------



## Mutakalim

HAIDER said:


> lol...... Don't want to write, but in this forum people don't know ,* in Pakistani Universities a huge majority of teaching class is atheist. These people there for decades*


Didn't seen a single one. Don't know which universities are you talking about.


----------



## VCheng

> Keep watching.... Details will be shared....



That is indeed encouraging. I look forward to further information that will clarify the situation.

Please do keep in mind that those who make citizens go "poofff" are the ones disgracing Pakistan, and the ones demanding the rule of law are the ones upholding national dignity.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zibago

The Sandman said:


> You could've been banned or maybe it's just a bug but let me tag @Zaki try signing in/out and pls don't call me sir yr :p
> P.S it's 19th jan @Zibago
> View attachment 369521


Wait I was suppose to die today :-//



HAIDER said:


> lol..... o come one ....just ignore such type of pages, hundreds of pages run on FB daily and close. Who cares ...... seriously are we spending so much time discussing such pages.??????.... lol.
> 
> lol...... Don't want to write, but in this forum people don't know , in Pakistani Universities a huge majority of teaching class is atheist. These people there for decades


Ah come on two of our lecturers were supporters of Qadri I cant recall a single incident where a teacher was Atheist pata nahi kon ye chorta hay



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> That is indeed encouraging. I look forward to further information that will clarify the situation.
> 
> Please do keep in mind that those who make citizens go "poofff" are the ones disgracing Pakistan, and the ones demanding the rule of law are the ones upholding national dignity.


Traitors going "poof" is a good thing 
US had a right wing awakening they will ignore events in Pakistan 
They wish to have a hands-off foreign policy approach

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khanate

Gillani88 said:


> Logic is used when Logic is presented. If people start creating nonsense like this then "Sword" is the way to go.




Emotional and immature response which hinders dialogue.

1. If you were *baited* by professional trolls (Bhensa, Tarq Fata, etc.) on social media, you should respond by ridiculing them. Create a parody account and troll them back. However, if you respond by threatening violence then you give them power over yourself. And, this is exactly the way they want you to respond, i.e., violence or "sword'.

2. Because you responded with violence, the news is no longer about blasphemy and the conversation turns from limitations of Freedom of Speech to, "You broke the law! You're violent!" You have essentially given more ammo to your critics and disarmed your supporters despite the fact that they were wronged and have a valid point, i.e., Bhensa broke the laws in the first place.

3. The "sword" has never solved any problems. If anything, you turn the freaks into martyrs. Look at Salmaan Taseer. It no longer matters if he was corrupt or a cheat, Qadri has turned him into a liberal saint and a martyr overnight. That's dumb in my opinion.

Putting logic and narratives aside, what bothers me about the "sword" argument is that we are told, from a young age, the story when Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) was mistreated by an old women and he never responded to her. In fact, Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) visited her when she was sick. Compare your response with this and two couldn't be more different.

I apologise in advance if anything I said was harsh.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1


----------



## HAIDER

Zibago said:


> Wait I was suppose to die today :-//
> 
> 
> Ah come on two of our lecturers were supporters of Qadri I cant recall a single incident where a teacher was Atheist pata nahi kon ye chorta hay
> 
> 
> Traitors going "poof" is a good thing
> US had a right wing awakening they will ignore events in Pakistan
> They wish to have a hands-off foreign policy approach


They never expose , until yo so close to them. Punjab University is big example, its divided between Jamati and non Jamati teaching class.


----------



## Abu Zolfiqar

Mugwop said:


> Who are they and where do they live? Why do they call themselves cows?


if they call themselves cows, I call myself the greatest fan of a nicely sautéed beef steak

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Chauvinist

what is this bhena shit ???

Anyone care to tell....

@haviZsultan @Abu Zolfiqar @django @Zibago @Khafee

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zibago

Chauvinist said:


> what is this bhena shit ???
> 
> Anyone care to tell....
> 
> @haviZsultan @Abu Zolfiqar @django @Zibago @Khafee


Anti Pakistan page that got blocked and admins were arrested i was banned on it for doing kutay wali of admin few months before the page itself got banned

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## django

Chauvinist said:


> what is this bhena shit ???
> 
> Anyone care to tell....
> 
> @haviZsultan @Abu Zolfiqar @django @Zibago @Khafee


A bunch of anti-Islam and anti-Pakistan propagandists who were projecting themselves as some kind of enlightened individuals, they were publishing insulting material against the Holy Prophet, and Almighty ALLAH, whoever has apprehended them, I would consider it an honour to shake their hands.Kudos

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## I.R.A

The Eagle said:


> Jibran Nasir and Co needs to see this protest as well...... People demands death penalty...
> 
> Though it's another question that are they with authorities or hiding somewhere but public voice is worth noting...
> 
> View attachment 369497




Either this one is photo-shopped or the one I saw on previous pages is fake .............. how can same set of ladies demand release of an individual in one image and hanging of the same individual in another image?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mrc

http://www.dawn.com/news/1309390/missing-activists-families-decry-blasphemy-allegations

Pdf getting famous... job well done

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Well.wisher

Mrc said:


> http://www.dawn.com/news/1309390/missing-activists-families-decry-blasphemy-allegations
> 
> Pdf getting famous... job well done



PDF voice was heard when a thread was posted about force conversion of hindu ladies and marrying them forcefully . Senate passed a law then . 

No doubt , senators do read the forum , need to post more sane threads. 
It's a great forum .


----------



## VCheng

> Traitors going "poof" is a good thing



Citizens going "poof" without due process of law, based on unproven allegations, is definitely NOT a good thing for Pakistan.


----------



## Mutakalim

The Sandman said:


> That we can't punish those retards for blasphemy because it's against teachings of Quran and Prophet (remember he spared a whole city who insulted him threw stones at him?) BUT we can and we should punish/hang them for anti Pak activity and for supporting terrorist organizations.


Need a day or two to write down all associated content in this regard. Didn't know that one day I have to write down on Matters of Ijma'a.


----------



## The Sandman

Zibago said:


> Wait I was suppose to die today :-//


Yr koi acha sa shair to likho is pe 
@Hell hound @Moonlight wo tha na ek shair mit gye hm ko mitane wale smthing like that

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Well.wisher

Saraab said:


> Kuch ziyada nahien ho gaya?



Yes khurshid shah once copied my comment and told it in parliament.


----------



## Well.wisher

Saraab said:


> @Zaki
> Post of the millennia.





Ek dafa me ny comment kia gali gali me Shor ha asif zardari chor ha .

Next day imran khan party copied my comment .


----------



## Moiz ur Rehman

*Well done. Keep going... *


----------



## The Eagle

> That is indeed encouraging. I look forward to further information that will clarify the situation.



Yes, indeed and all we need to do is, wait for the moment.




> Please do keep in mind that those who make citizens go "poofff" are the ones disgracing Pakistan, and the ones demanding the rule of law are the ones upholding national dignity.



The "Poofff" situation will only be cleared when things shared and currently there is no information in this subject so everything is purely assumed on the basis of mindset that few sees the same as poofff, others call it abduction, some says kidnapped and the usual thick minded looking at it to malign the state which is immature and unethical from the analytical point of view as well. People demanding them be charged with proper Section of Law and they should be trialed in Court, are indeed the Citizens of Pakistan and when it comes to National Security then there are different explanations of Law to arrest the people that we can read with recent National Action Plan. 

The citizen of Pakistan encourages "poofff" when it comes to threat our sovereignty and security as well as causing ethnic, sectarian or religious clash. Majority supports if done by this definition, but the same is yet to be cleared. Every country does it when it comes to National Security so people drawing a line over "pooff" for Pakistan only needs to check their own backyard full of such skeletons of "pooffed" people as well and needs to understand that how definition changes under different circumstances so again IF (a big if) this is done by LEAs then the whole Pakistan fully supports the act in favour of Pakistan and Islam as well. No extremism is allowed either from liberal side or from religious end. A simple rule of the game, people remains unknown to hurt the sovereignty, can be hunted by the unknown like giving them the taste of their own medicine.


----------



## Well.wisher

Saraab said:


> Seriously...Enough
> 
> Next post of your will be Banu Qudsia copied script from you for Raja Gidh



No , I only noticed these two . 

You should also notice these senators .
They copy ideas from us , they're blind sheeps .


----------



## VCheng

> when it comes to National Security then there are different explanations of Law to arrest the people that we can read with recent National Action Plan



What Law exactly is being referred to here that can be used as a "different explanation" based on national security to justify disappearance? What is the language in the NAP that provides legal cover for such actions?

http://infopak.gov.pk/InnerPage.aspx?Page_ID=46

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Eagle

> What Law exactly is being referred to here that can be used as a "different explanation" based on national security to justify disappearance? What is the language in the NAP that provides legal cover for such actions?



Will be told, when proven that State has done it, till then patience is the key... but to understand the basics of such explanation, read what CIA did, sometimes FBI crosses the line etc that will at-least give an idea that how agencies works... just for understanding only.....


----------



## VCheng

> Will be told, when proven that State has done it, till then patience is the key... but to understand the basics of such explanation, read what CIA did, sometimes FBI crosses the line etc that will at-least give an idea that how agencies works... just for understanding only.....



Translation: There is NO legal basis for disappearing a citizen of Pakistan, but "thugs" do it anyway.

As expected.


----------



## Vapnope

*To whomever who is okay with "Abductions" "Because they were a security threat"*

Is Abdul Aziz not a security threat?
----
Its clear that state considers pens a threat to national security but not the armed supporters of Daesh. SMH

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Well.wisher

Saraab said:


> Enough of this....





Okay enough , I'm waiting for their new copy .


----------



## RealNapster

The Sandman said:


> 2000 ur close



Yuppie.... 



The Sandman said:


> All the best for it.



Thanks. Ap ki duao se ache hue Presentation. 3.7 gpa Pakka hay..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## haviZsultan

The family members of kidnapped activists have denied having any role in blasphemy or hurting the sentiments of the majority. I hope this isn't another Salman Taseer type case, where condemnation of a man made law is automatically equivalent of blasphemy. 

I hope an injustice hasn't been committed. If these people however were involved in anti state activities they should be punished.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## The Eagle

> Translation: There is NO legal basis for disappearing a citizen of Pakistan, but "thugs" do it anyway.
> 
> As expected.



Indeed, as expected, turned into another excuse by blaming and not checking the own backyard....... what a pity.... wasn't a surprise at all but mere attempts to annoy..... Badmouths will do it again & again by twisting the facts to malign and defame rather than having a life.... just show a soft spot and will show their true face for Pakistan & Islam.... We will be hunting the thugs...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

> Indeed, as expected, turned into another excuse by blaming and not checking the own backyard



I checked. No blogger has _ever _disappeared over here due to a FB page. Zero. None. Lots of them have disappeared over there, the present five not being the first, nor the last to disappear. 

Thugs will be thugs, I suppose.


----------



## The Eagle

> I checked. No blogger has _ever _disappeared over here due to a FB page. Zero. None. Lots of them have disappeared over there, the present five not being the first, nor the last to disappear. Thugs will be thugs, I suppose.



What an excuse to defend the disappearance with bloggers only, this is about Law indeed.... oh wait... the Global Police can do as such..... It is not confirmed yet who have them but one thing for sure, they were threat so being aware of Law, hiding and maligning the Country. How about wait..... but the same is impossible for some.....

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mansoon

its a disgrace to freedom of speech in Pakistan.


----------



## VCheng

> What an excuse to defend the disappearance with bloggers only, this is about Law indeed.



It is entirely appropriate to remain on topic for which this thread has been created to discuss.


----------



## The Eagle

> It is entirely appropriate to remain on topic for which this thread has been created to discuss.



reminds me of lol..... if not a machine mind.... may help to review that seems impossible but there is no harm to try again & again...thread................

*Bhensa has been controlled!!!*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

> Bhensa has been controlled!



Actually, as I mentioned before, the title should be changed to "abducted" from "controlled".


----------



## The Eagle

> Actually, as I mentioned before, the title should be changed to "abducted" from "controlled".



An anti-Pakistan and blasphemous page is in control... A page cannot be abducted... hence thread title.... if I am not wrong....

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

> An anti-Pakistan and blasphemous page is in control... A page cannot be abducted... hence thread title.... if I am not wrong....



The page has been hijacked after the alleged creator(s) was/were abducted. Who or why is not clear yet. That is a fair assessment, yes.


----------



## The Eagle

> The page has been hijacked after the alleged creator(s) was/were abducted. Who or why is not clear yet. That is a fair assessment, yes.



US can ask FB to block the page or whatever... Law..... hijacked, abducted etc all are assumptions yet... Yes

Government is looking into the matter... Yes...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

> US can ask FB to block the page or whatever.



Nope. The US government _cannot _restrict free speech. FaceBook as a private company can have its own rules, however.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Valar Dohaeris

Amir Liaqat exposing blasphemous material of Bhensa.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=415031725508559

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Eagle

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/822004741446266881

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

After the bloggers, NGOs are next in line, perhaps?


----------



## Valar Dohaeris

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> After the bloggers, NGOs are next in line, perhaps?
> 
> View attachment 369860


Hope, yeah. Ch Nisar is great guy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Eagle

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/821799247251173376

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## tahir195

salute o aamir liaquait hussain


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Sher bloggers.


----------



## Irfan Baloch

Patriots said:


> @Horus
> 
> You are doing great work to exposing so-called liberal scumbags ... They are actually cancer in our society along with religious extreemist elements ... But work is not completed ... "The Naked Truth" & "Humkalam" are roaming freely and spitting their venom ..........


if we are talking about the recent "disappearances" of the activists which have been conveniently blamed on ISI and the army then I wonder if the human rights custodians in the west were waiting in line to disengage themselves from bombing Middle east and selling arms to Saudis and then express their heartfelt concerns over such convenient disappearances.

maybe the strings of these so called disappearances are indeed the crude work of the agencies or maybe these guys are told to go underground or meet up in Kabul to share their views with the "like minded" kind of a certain country that prefers opening consulates rather than looking after food and hygiene of its people

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## VCheng

> maybe the strings of these so called disappearances are indeed the crude work of the agencies or maybe these guys are told to go underground or meet up in Kabul to share their views with the "like minded" kind of a certain country that prefers opening consulates rather than looking after food and hygiene of its people



May be they were good. May be they were bad. May be they were horrible.

But the real issue is that citizens of Pakistan can just disappear. May be it is just a coincidence that those that seem to disappear just happen to be critical of the noble warriors that can do whatever they want. May be it is not.

Even worse is that regardless of the cause, the effect is a chilling silence enforced upon all those who may want to think for themselves.

It all betrays the weakness eating up the entire country from within while we all pretend to care.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Abu Zolfiqar

Chauvinist said:


> what is this bhena shit ???
> 
> Anyone care to tell....
> 
> @haviZsultan @Abu Zolfiqar @django @Zibago @Khafee



Seems to be some garbage page run by self proclaimed "liberals" "marxists" etc. (unemployed dead beats) 

I understand "Pak Cyber Army" took over their page and removed offensive material. No idea how they pulled it off



Zibago said:


> Anti Pakistan page that got blocked and admins were arrested i was banned on it for doing kutay wali of admin few months before the page itself got banned



I used to admire Jibran Nasir for being vocal and calling for arrest of Maulana Burka (enemy of the state). Once he called for arrest of PDF admins that was the final line. I don't mind if people criticize the military as long as it's constructive. These guys are just rabble-rousers and nothing else 

Good work @Horus !!!! The cows are now on the grill 



Irfan Baloch said:


> if we are talking about the recent "disappearances" of the activists which have been conveniently blamed on ISI and the army then I wonder if the human rights custodians in the west were waiting in line to disengage themselves from bombing Middle east and selling arms to Saudis and then express their heartfelt concerns over such convenient disappearances.
> 
> maybe the strings of these so called disappearances are indeed the crude work of the agencies or maybe these guys are told to go underground or meet up in Kabul to share their views with the "like minded" kind of a certain country that prefers opening consulates rather than looking after food and hygiene of its people



It all makes no sense. Extremists on the "other side" could have abducted them. Could all be staged who knows

If the state was involved, why they didn't arrest Asma Jahangir and her ilk? Everyone knows her and her views. I never heard of these losers until news came of their "abduction" 

Surprised nobody asks this question. Hina Jilani, Jahangir and HRCP are still operating with no problems. I know where the office is in Lahore, it's near Gulberg



Irfan Baloch said:


> if we are talking about the recent "disappearances" of the activists which have been conveniently blamed on ISI and the army then I wonder if the human rights custodians in the west were waiting in line to disengage themselves from bombing Middle east and selling arms to Saudis and then express their heartfelt concerns over such convenient disappearances.
> 
> maybe the strings of these so called disappearances are indeed the crude work of the agencies or maybe these guys are told to go underground or meet up in Kabul to share their views with the "like minded" kind of a certain country that prefers opening consulates rather than looking after food and hygiene of its people



It all makes no sense. Extremists on the "other side" could have abducted them. Could all be staged who knows

If the state was involved, why they didn't arrest Asma Jahangir and her ilk? Everyone knows her and her views. I never heard of these losers until news came of their "abduction" 

Surprised nobody asks this question. Hina Jilani, Jahangir and HRCP are still operating with no problems. I know where the office is in Lahore, it's near Gulberg

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Solomon2

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> It all makes no sense. Extremists on the "other side" could have abducted them. Could all be staged who knows







_"...tracking mobile internet users is not for novices. Only specialised cyber tools can uncover the identities of those anonymously operating a Facebook page or website. This requires skills, equipment, and persistence. Since IP numbers — which identify a particular device — are alterable and wireless networks can be accessed from anywhere, tracking records are needed. Only the authorities have such data acquisition facilities."_


----------



## Mugwop

Someone from ppp was defending them claiming they were activists but didn't mention activists of what in particular.


----------



## Psychic

Solomon2 said:


> View attachment 369960
> 
> _"...tracking mobile internet users is not for novices. Only specialised cyber tools can uncover the identities of those anonymously operating a Facebook page or website. This requires skills, equipment, and persistence. Since IP numbers — which identify a particular device — are alterable and wireless networks can be accessed from anywhere, tracking records are needed. Only the authorities have such data acquisition facilities."_


Spare us this BS, even ordinary people knew who was running these "anonymous" pages well before the abductions.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mrc

Solomon2 said:


> View attachment 369960
> 
> _"...tracking mobile internet users is not for novices. Only specialised cyber tools can uncover the identities of those anonymously operating a Facebook page or website. This requires skills, equipment, and persistence. Since IP numbers — which identify a particular device — are alterable and wireless networks can be accessed from anywhere, tracking records are needed. Only the authorities have such data acquisition facilities."_




10 year old with right skill set can do it

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Psychic

Azlan Haider said:


> Anyway, I suggest you to read Imam Nawawi's explanation of this hadith. Only the state has the right to use hand/force. Scholars can use their tongue .... It's not for ordinary men like you or I to _change evil with our hands _


Going by your logic the martyrdom of Hussain R.A and his plans to start a revolt against Yazeed with the help of the Kufans were un-Islamic?
If someone is trying to kill a person and the state(police) is nowhere to be seen then you will just see that person getting killed and do nothing since it is the state's duty to protect it's citizens and not your obligation to stop the evil?

Those people did not commit blasphemy by mistake or something like what Salman Taseer or Rimsha Masih did. These people were churning out blasphemous content on a daily basis which is equivalent to spreading fitnah. They had nothing to do with having a healthy debate, constructive criticism or freedom of (hate)speech.
If an extremist madrassa student can get disappeared so can they, however the right thing is not to abduct people but to try them in the court.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

Psychic said:


> Those people did not commit blasphemy by mistake or something like what Salman Taseer


what he used to say is just as bad as this Bhensa group. The press did a good job of not reporting against a sitting governor. Plus the free media wanted a martyr for their cause & they got one.
.


----------



## countryman

Solomon2 said:


> "...tracking mobile internet users is not for novices. Only specialised cyber tools can uncover the identities of those anonymously operating a Facebook page or website. This requires skills, equipment, and persistence. Since IP numbers — which identify a particular device — are alterable and wireless networks can be accessed from anywhere, tracking records are needed. Only the authorities have such data acquisition facilities."


*
Somebody tell this idiot something about SSL*

Since he doesn't have any idea what he is talking about, so, his opinion is just piece of shit. He tried hard making his statement look like it is coming for IT professional but somebody tell this idiot something about SSL. Facebook, like any other up to date site uses SSL, client and server first establish the secure connection and then start communicating. Even if there is some man-in-middle trying to intercept data i.e. Govt, they will only get encrypted chunks of data going to and from facebook server. There are millions of facebook users in Pakistan, all communicating in same fashion and cannot be distinguished from other. There is an old saying, neem hakeem khatra jaan. Such fools are devastating the country with their intentional or unintentional wrong doses, sorry fake news.

PS: Breaking one SSL cipher would need a big super computer cluster with a lot of days. Also, I studied some of his ... for sometimes, and I think he is just another ungrateful hypocrite.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HAIDER

countryman said:


> *Somebody tell this idiot something about SSL*
> 
> Since he doesn't have any idea what he is talking about, so, his opinion is just piece of shit. He tried hard making his statement look like it is coming for IT professional but somebody tell this idiot something about SSL. Facebook, like any other up to date site uses SSL, client and server first establish the secure connection and then start communicating. Even if there is some man-in-middle trying to intercept data i.e. Govt, they will only get encrypted chunks of data going to and from facebook server. There are millions of facebook users in Pakistan, all communicating in same fashion and cannot be distinguished from other. There is an old saying, neem hakeem khatra jaan. Such fools are devastating the country with their intentional or unintentional wrong doses, sorry fake news.
> 
> PS: Breaking one SSL cipher would need a big super computer cluster with a lot of days. Also, I studied some of his ... for sometimes, and I think he is just another ungrateful hypocrite.


There is way , but can not publish . But must know deep in hacking tools. If people understand this


----------



## Solomon2

Psychic said:


> Spare us this BS, even ordinary people knew who was running these "anonymous" pages well before the abductions.


Doubtless an ordinary "psychic" like yourself would know!


----------



## Suff Shikan

There is another page created named 'Bhensa' and its worst then before


----------



## countryman

HAIDER said:


> There is way , but can not publish .



LOL! Like you're the only one who knows and discovered where the SSL can be broken. You must thinking Govt is tunneling all country's data through proxy? Sorry, I don't agree. People with half knowledge are most dangerous, unless you're doing all this intentionally that makes you even more dangerous.


----------



## Solomon2

Irfan Baloch said:


> if we are talking about the recent "disappearances" of the activists which have been conveniently blamed on ISI and the army then I wonder if the human rights custodians in the west were waiting in line to disengage themselves from bombing Middle east -


Diversion from you? I am surprised.


----------



## DJ_Viper

countryman said:


> *Somebody tell this idiot something about SSL*
> 
> Since he doesn't have any idea what he is talking about, so, his opinion is just piece of shit. He tried hard making his statement look like it is coming for IT professional but somebody tell this idiot something about SSL. Facebook, like any other up to date site uses SSL, client and server first establish the secure connection and then start communicating. Even if there is some man-in-middle trying to intercept data i.e. Govt, they will only get encrypted chunks of data going to and from facebook server. There are millions of facebook users in Pakistan, all communicating in same fashion and cannot be distinguished from other. There is an old saying, neem hakeem khatra jaan. Such fools are devastating the country with their intentional or unintentional wrong doses, sorry fake news.
> 
> PS: Breaking one SSL cipher would need a big super computer cluster with a lot of days. Also, I studied some of his ... for sometimes, and I think he is just another ungrateful hypocrite.



Sir, this is 2017. What you are describing in your posts are good "concepts" about encryption aka, the Cryptogaphy. The advance Cryptography and Decrypt mechanisms can break PGP easily (majority of the sites use the PGP encryption method for SSL, etc). The most secure method was AES 2.0. Even that as I heard in a seminar was being tested by the USG for breaking purposes. As I've heard in various seminars, the only best method to protect your data, is to never hook a cable up your LAN port. No internet connection, no risk of getting hacked or your identification or online ID theft . You can buy a scissor for like $ 2 to give you the ultimate protection, i.e. to cut your internet cable off so no connection to the outside world can be made.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HAIDER

countryman said:


> LOL! Like you're the only one who knows and discovered where the SSL can be broken. You must thinking Govt is tunneling all country's data through proxy? Sorry, I don't agree. People with half knowledge are most dangerous, unless you're doing all this intentionally that makes you even more dangerous.


lol....just kidding ....but east european hacker using open source tools ...they made it half way to RSA...


----------



## fitpOsitive

DJ_Viper said:


> Sir, this is 2017. What you are describing in your posts are good "concepts" about encryption aka, the Cryptogaphy. The advance Cryptography and Decrypt mechanisms can break PGP easily (majority of the sites use the PGP encryption method for SSL, etc). The most secure method was AES 2.0. Even that as I heard in a seminar was being tested by the USG for breaking purposes. As I've heard in various seminars, the only best method to protect your data, is to never hook a cable up your LAN port. No internet connection, no risk of getting hacked or your identification or online ID theft . You can buy a scissor for like $ 2 to give you the ultimate protection, i.e. to cut your internet cable off so no connection to the outside world can be made.


Even AES 256 is broken now.


----------



## countryman

DJ_Viper said:


> Sir, this is 2017. What you are describing in your posts are good "concepts" about encryption aka, the Cryptogaphy. The advance Cryptography and Decrypt mechanisms can break PGP easily (majority of the sites use the PGP encryption method for SSL, etc). The most secure method was AES 2.0. Even that as I heard in a seminar was being tested by the USG for breaking purposes. As I've heard in various seminars, the only best method to protect your data, is to never hook a cable up your LAN port. No internet connection, no risk of getting hacked or your identification or online ID theft . You can buy a scissor for like $ 2 to give you the ultimate protection, i.e. to cut your internet cable off so no connection to the outside world can be made.



I think you should take some IT class as well and do some real work in field. All you're talking I heard this and I heard that. Codes are breakable: sure they are, but is it feasible: currently no. Though the rainbow tables have reduce the time to thousands folds but increasing number of bits in cipher is making it virtually impossible to create them at first place.

Anyway, you guys look much highly qualified and experienced. So, I'll just find move to next thread, LOL!


----------



## DJ_Viper

countryman said:


> I think you should take some IT class as well and do some real work in field. All you're talking I heard this and I heard that. Codes are breakable: sure they are, but is it feasible: currently no.



Your "expertise" are pretty self explanatory in this field from your posts. As far as I am concerned, when I write something, you better believe I know what I am talking about and with experience. I think this is enough said. The information I gave you, was a respectful way to not humiliate you with your stance on the topic which is like a decade old and obsolete!But I guess some people don't like the respectful hint, they still force their obsolete bullshiit on you till you drag them out to the public.

The US can break even AES 2+ encryption as well. We have plenty of research labs and organizations that do focus research on this subject and billions are spent on this with ultra-fast super computers running at 17+ PETAFLOPS (Cray Titan and IBM Sequoia just as two examples), and then there is the latest, the AI system by IBM, the Watson. Whom you can talk to and order it to break the encryption with known patterns (or identify new patterns) and it will speak to you like a human being to discuss every step


----------



## HAIDER

DJ_Viper said:


> Your "expertise" are pretty self explanatory in this field from your posts. As far as I am concerned, when I write something, you better believe I know what I am talking about and with experience. I think this is enough said. The information I gave you, was a respectful way to not humiliate you with your stance on the topic which is like a decade old and obsolete!But I guess some people don't like the respectful hint, they still force their obsolete bullshiit on you till you drag them out to the public.
> 
> The US can break even AES 2+ encryption as well. We have plenty of research labs and organizations that do focus research on this subject and billions are spent on this with ultra-fast super computers running at 17+ PTAFLOPS (Cray Titan and IBM Sequoia just as two examples and then there is the latest, the AI system by IBM, the Watson. Whom you can talk to and order it to break the encryption with known patterns (or identify new patterns) and it will speak to you like a human being to discuss every step


Interesting , haven't touch the Watson yet.


----------



## Abu Zolfiqar

Solomon2 said:


> Doubtless an ordinary "psychic" like yourself would know!



What's your passionate interest in all of this sir

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sbh02

There seems to be a dangerous conflation between religion and patriotism. There is such a thing as a secular patriot. There is nothing wrong with demanding rights of non-Muslim rights in Pakistan, and that they have been discriminated. People should own up to this, and try to improve on their attitudes towards others.


----------



## sbh02

Looks like we are re-living the Zia ul Haq era again sadly. 

This is such a non-issue. If the intelligence agencies did not "pick up" these people, then the supporters of these agencies should not justify that it deserved to happen due to their "blasphemous actions". 

And if there were some "blasphemous posts" on their facebook page that insulted the sentiments of the public, they should be produced and tried in a court of law; instead of being covertly picked up.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Kashif Arain

Bhensa has been blocked but is there any connection of Salman Haider, a Social Activist has link with this page ?


----------



## sbh02

This kind of mentality in Pakistan is akin to shooting "one's self in the foot".

While I agree there are many "activists" who have "vested interests", there are many people who raise their voices to the injustices faced by minorities, and against the indifference of the state to provide them protection. 

Mullah Abdul Aziz, who spoke freely against the state is roaming freely. Sectarian organizations like the ASWJ, who have close ties to terrorist organizations like the LeJ, who have killed hundreds and thousands of Hazaras; spread hate speech against Shias and facilitate the likes of LeJ, but have been given a free pass by Ch. Nisar. 

We recently saw the attack of Ahmedis in Chakwal. Only a FIR was issued, no serious action taken against the perpetrators. Same thing with people who make false blasphemy cases against others, there is no action against them.

The state needs to take the plight of others, and not shoot down dissent. 

We are all aware of Indian sponsored propaganda, and we will always counter it and expose them. I am sure once the state takes the life of each and every citizen seriously, there will be a lot less dissent.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DJ_Viper

Kashif Arain said:


> Bhensa has been blocked but is there any connection of Salman Haider, a Social Activist has link with this page ?



Who is this "Bhensa" sir? I got attracted to the topic due to the discussion on Cryptography. But curious to learn more. Thanks


----------



## Musafir117

T


DJ_Viper said:


> Who is this "Bhensa" sir? I got attracted to the topic due to the discussion on Cryptography. But curious to learn more. Thanks


There are hundreds of Bhensa and Katta Goats on FB Twitter etc google it out.


----------



## DJ_Viper

Musafir117 said:


> T
> There are hundreds of Bhensa and Katta Goats on FB Twitter etc google it out.



Sir, I was asking what does this even mean? If its one or more, what are they doing wrong that this thread had to be created? Thanks


----------



## Farah Sohail

Suff Shikan said:


> There is another page created named 'Bhensa' and its worst then before



Really??? Goddd... These ppl are just......

It should b mentioned to @Horus .. Plzz take note

Should be reported to FIA Cyber wing

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## LA se Karachi

DJ_Viper said:


> Sir, I was asking what does this even mean? If its one or more, what are they doing wrong that this thread had to be created? Thanks




It caused quite a storm. People on this site seem to be very pro-arrest.

https://defence.pk/threads/activist...-to-arrest-admins-of-pakistan-defence.471867/


----------



## alimobin memon

who is bhensam is it another anti pakistan ?


----------



## Patriots

shah_123 said:


> Where is Ch. Nisar ???



Don't know ... But right now I launche a complain to FIA cyber crime force .........

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## countryman

Patriots said:


> Now they are very aggressive this time now ..........



Indian Jangli bhens lagti hay. Wachha gawach gia hay te hun halki ho gai aa. :p


----------



## Hyde

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> How many will PDF try to stop? It is far better to counter such pages with positive content.


Piece of advice for everyone

It is far better to just mind your own business and move on with life. There are too many blasphemous pages on Internet and you are only indirectly promoting them by sharing such links. Let the Government of Pakistan deal with it. It will be a favour on us if we can just improve our life rather than meddling with others affairs.

What matters to me in the end is that the platform of this website should not be used to publicise any kind of blasphemous content and I alongside my team will ensure it will always remain like that

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

Zaki said:


> Piece of advice for everyone
> 
> It is far better to just mind your own business and move on with life. There are too many blasphemous pages on Internet and you are only indirectly promoting them by sharing such links. Let the Government of Pakistan deal with it. It will be a favour on us if we can just improve our life rather than meddling with others affairs.
> 
> What matters to me in the end is that the platform of this website should not be used to publicise any kind of blasphemous content and I alongside my team will ensure it will always remain like that



PDF should not be in the business of preventing others from expressing themselves, whatever it might be. Let PDF work on creating positive content as it sees fit according to its own policies. 

Simple.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hyde

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> PDF should not be in the business of preventing others from expressing themselves, whatever it might be. Let PDF work on creating positive content as it sees fit according to its own policies.
> 
> Simple.


We do allow freedom of expression as much as possible but in the name of freedom, blasphemous content cannot be allowed whatsoever.

The proof of freedon of expression is this thread as well containing few hundred posts on such controversial subject. But in the name of discussion, sharing or publicising any kind of blasphemous cannot will not be allowed intentionally or unintentionally. So please refrain quoting such sites or your posts will be deleted.

If you do like to discuss such subject in greater depth, Google is your best friend for finding such sites.

PS: Feel free to tag me if anyon shares such links

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

Zaki said:


> We do allow freedom of expression as much as possible but in the name of freedom, blasphemous content cannot be allowed whatsoever.
> 
> The proof of freedon of expression is this thread as well containing few hundred posts on such controversial subject. But in the name of discussion, sharing or publicising any kind of blasphemous cannot will not be allowed intentionally or unintentionally. Si please refrain quoting such sites or your posts will be deleted.
> 
> If you do like to discuss such subject in greater depth, Google is your best friend for finding such sites.



What you really mean is that "blasphemous content cannot be allowed whatsoever" on PDF. That is perfectly fine as PDF is entitled to its own policies. In the same vein, PDF should not be interfering with policies followed by FB or other websites, specially its own administrator.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Solomon2

Zaki said:


> We do allow freedom of expression as much as possible but in the name of freedom, blasphemous content cannot be allowed whatsoever.


On the contrary: in the name of freedom blasphemous content has to be permitted. Furthermore, only when blasphemy is an option can individuals _choose_ the path of holiness instead.



The Eagle said:


> Will be told, when proven that State has done it, till then patience is the key...


Why be patient? Are citizens supposed act like sheep while wolves prowls in their midst?


----------



## The Eagle

Solomon2 said:


> Why be patient? Are citizens supposed act like sheep while wolves prowls in their midst?



Exactly, but it will take time though in the end there will be justice for Palestine and all that Israeli atrocities......

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HAIDER

Zaki said:


> We do allow freedom of expression as much as possible but in the name of freedom, blasphemous content cannot be allowed whatsoever.
> 
> The proof of freedon of expression is this thread as well containing few hundred posts on such controversial subject. But in the name of discussion, sharing or publicising any kind of blasphemous cannot will not be allowed intentionally or unintentionally. So please refrain quoting such sites or your posts will be deleted.
> 
> If you do like to discuss such subject in greater depth, Google is your best friend for finding such sites.
> 
> PS: Feel free to tag me if anyon shares such links


@Zaki Nodoubt , more we discuss this issue , more these type of pages get publicity . Its better to make PDF policy for the publication of blasphemy material . Either delete all such type of threads or if you allow to discuss blasphemy subject , alteast stop naming the pages where gustakhana material exist. We can t counter those pages one by one , social media is all of sudden full of this issue after Charlie Hebdo killed.
Do you know how much promotion given to Bhensa page by us ? .....Few weeks ago , majority of PDF member didn t even know about such pages .... and know.


----------



## Hyde

Solomon2 said:


> On the contrary: in the name of freedom blasphemous content has to be permitted. Furthermore, only when blasphemy is an option can individuals _choose_ the path of holiness instead.


This post reflects my personal opinion only and nowhere is a stated policy of this forum.

1) People like you come to this forum with clear agenda of defending attrocities of Israel, bash every Muslim country and publicise all negative news about Pakistan to mock the nation and satisfy your ego. What action did we take in return? Almost nothing besides legitimate infractions for inappropriate posts. Thats what I say is the example of freedom of expression

2) When this scandal was in the making we have conditionally allowed certain links as a reference to assert the point of view of members but this forum cannot be allowed to be used as a platform for promoting such blasphemous content

3) We have list of banned terms which we revise from time to time as you know already and if we did not censor many subjects on this forum, it would not have been such an open place for all. People would rather have been engaging in doing personal attacks and swearing at each other all the time

4) You have no idea how many terrorist sympathisers we ban on monthly basis because they softly defend any group banned by a country or united nations. If we had allowed complete freedom of expression like Facebook then you would have been surrounded by many idiots

5) If we say there are two extremist groups, one in favour of blasphemy and another hanging them in the street, we have disallowed both type of extremists as this is not a platform to settle your personal vandetta.

I expect not to engage in another discussion on this matter

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Solomon2

The Eagle said:


> Exactly, but it will take time though in the end there will be justice for Palestine and all that Israeli atrocities......


So Israel-hatred is important because it can be wielded to shield intrusive Pakistani government officials from public scrutiny and accountability. You know this is road the Syrians took, right?



Zaki said:


> ...People like you come to this forum with clear agenda of defending attrocities of Israel...


As discussed many times, Pakistanis aren't equipped to make any charges against Israel, since these are grounded in politics and deliberate mis-education rather than fact.

So if you want to have a _moral_ voice rather than simply serve as an echo of government policy you have to fight for greater freedom of speech in Pakistan. That path is open to you: switch sides and support the snatched activists and writers.



> You have no idea how many terrorist sympathisers we ban on monthly basis -


You may not like some of their methods or stupidities but do you share the same goals?



> If we say there are two extremist groups, one in favour of blasphemy and another hanging them in the street, we have disallowed both type of extremists -


You expect blasphemers to be espouse violence to the same extent the intolerant do?



> I expect not to engage in another discussion on this matter


Do you want PDF to be a forum for discussion or merely an echo chamber to support permitted ideas, rather than challenge them?


----------



## The Eagle

Solomon2 said:


> So Israel-hatred is important because it can be wielded to shield intrusive Pakistani government officials. You know this is road the Syrians took, right?



Read post #684.... 

Hatred who said it.... it is a fact, loud & clearly a fact. 

Keep it yourself and don't try to twist, divert the topic at all. It is actually your grudge and enmity against Pakistan that every now & then, people like you do not miss a chance to propagate as such. You are not police here demanding such answers. Syria etc, road, our Government Officials, wielded to shield etc, all are exposing yourself that what exactly you are up-to.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Solomon2

The Eagle said:


> Hatred who said it.... it is a fact, loud & clearly a fact. Keep it yourself and don't try to twist, divert the topic at all.


Shouldn't you be talking to yourself here?


----------



## VCheng

Solomon2 said:


> Do you want PDF to be a forum for discussion or merely an echo chamber to support permitted ideas, rather than challenge them?



It is the right of the management to run their forum as they see fit. Participation by members is voluntary based on those policies.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Eagle

Solomon2 said:


> Shouldn't you be talking to yourself here?



Yeah, when it comes to Israeli war crimes and atrocities in Palestine and UN action, telling to Israeli is like talking to self, exactly.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mrc

Patriots said:


> Don't know ... But right now I launche a complain to FIA cyber crime force .........



This may be run from outside pk may ve a lure to find out how original id's were hacked... in time they too will succumb to their own schemes


----------



## Hyde

Solomon2 said:


> So Israel-hatred is important because it can be wielded to shield intrusive Pakistani government officials from public scrutiny and accountability. You know this is road the Syrians took, right?
> 
> As discussed many times, Pakistanis aren't equipped to make any charges against Israel, since these are grounded in politics and deliberate mis-education rather than fact.
> 
> So if you want to have a _moral_ voice rather than simply serve as an echo of government policy you have to fight for greater freedom of speech in Pakistan. That path is open to you: switch sides and support the snatched activists and writers.
> 
> You may not like some of their methods or stupidities but do you share the same goals?
> 
> You expect blasphemers to be espouse violence to the same extent the intolerant do?
> 
> Do you want PDF to be a forum for discussion or merely an echo chamber to support permitted ideas, rather than challenge them?


1) I am not sure why the world cannot stay in peace by not breaching the red lines of each others tolerance. The fact is, there is one group of extremists in my opinion, whatever you wanna name them is your choice, who would poke in the affair of religious people and mock their Prophet to infuriate them. For me they are as extremist as the other group who would retaliate and willing to kill such people.

I hardly care what they do in private life but such discussion playing with the emotions of each other will only sow seeds of hatred. We do not want the platform of PDF to be used to promote blasphemous content although we do welcome debate on blasphemy for as long as it remains civil, have been doing since inception of this forum

2) I am not debating whether blasphey law is good or bad, blashpemous content should be allowed or not. I am telling that please refrain from posting such content or the posts will be deleted

Thank you

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Solomon2

Zaki said:


> 1) I am not sure why the world cannot stay in peace by not breaching the red lines of each others tolerance. The fact is, there is one group of extremists in my opinion, whatever you wanna name them is your choice, who would poke in the affair of religious people and mock their Prophet to infuriate them. For me they are as extremist as the other group who would retaliate and willing to kill such people.


In the West people are responsible for their own actions. Why not in Pakistan? If you and I argued over our favorite football teams and you decided there was no other way to "win" other than by beating me to a pulp, would you be excused for your violent act because I made you mad? Would that make ME an "extremist" like you?



> I hardly care what they do in private life but such discussion playing with the emotions of each other will only sow seeds of hatred.


Is it your right to love yourself without question?



> ...I am not debating whether blasphey law is good or bad, blashpemous content should be allowed or not. I am telling that please refrain from posting such content or the posts will be deleted


Attempts to follow Pakistan's censorship laws and mores have put you in a tight spot. 

As I've cited several times, the parallel case in U.S. history was the action by slave states in the 1830s to restrict discussions on abolishing slavery. Soon, every political contest and even social discussion became a competition between who was more anti-abolitionist than the other, for the loser might end up in jail. The South became more and more extreme, embracing the "purple dream" of an expanding slaveholding empire stretching through the Americas and the Caribbean that would challenge the might of Free States. It was at this point that the Civil War became inevitable.


----------



## The Eagle

Solomon2 said:


> Why be patient?



Now back to your first post here quoting me.... 

Because it may take time to reveal the real story of those persons. or what else do you want to read?




Solomon2 said:


> Are citizens supposed act like sheep while wolves prowls in their midst?



I am Pakistani Citizen like many others, living in Pakistan, whom are you calling the sheep here.... None asked any citizen to act as such and it is unclear where they are and who have them... they may be hiding as well as per strategy... You should review the way for a question.....

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Solomon2

The Eagle said:


> Because it may take time to reveal the real story of those persons.


Why should that be important? They were disappeared. The effect of their disappearance is repression no matter who actually did it, right?



> I am Pakistani Citizen like many others, living in Pakistan, whom are you calling the sheep here.... None asked any citizen to act as such -


Irony.


----------



## Hyde

Solomon2 said:


> In the West people are responsible for their own actions. Why not in Pakistan? If you and I argued over our favorite football teams and you decided there was no other way to "win" other than by beating me to a pulp, would you be excused for your violent act because I made you mad? Would that make ME an "extremist" like you?
> 
> Is it your right to love yourself without question?
> 
> Attempts to follow Pakistan's censorship laws and mores have put you in a tight spot.
> 
> As I've cited several times, the parallel case in U.S. history was the action by slave states in the 1830s to restrict discussions on abolishing slavery. Soon, every political contest and even social discussion became a competition between who was more anti-abolitionist than the other, for the loser might end up in jail. The South became more and more extreme, embracing the "purple dream" of an expanding slaveholding empire stretching through the Americas and the Caribbean that would challenge the might of Free States. It was at this point that the Civil War became inevitable.


What you are doing is.. discussing whether such law or discussion should take place or not. Its allowed and that is why this thread and few hundred threads are open.

What I am saying is, sharing blasphemous content is not allowed and the policy will remain like that

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

Solomon2 said:


> Why should that be important? They were disappeared. The effect of their disappearance is repression no matter who actually did it, right?
> 
> Irony.


Funny how a blind supporter of barbaric zionists is getting his knickers in a twist.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Solomon2

Zaki said:


> What I am saying is, sharing blasphemous content is not allowed and the policy will remain like that


What I'm pointing out is that what is "blasphemy" has proved to be a subjective and sliding scale, so the very act of forbidding it leads to extremism.


----------



## Khafee

Solomon2 said:


> What I'm pointing out is that what is "blasphemy" has proved to be a subjective and sliding scale, so the very act of forbidding it leads to extremism.


Clean up your own house /israel from barbarians, stop slaughtering innocent men, women and children, then come and preach.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## The Eagle

Solomon2 said:


> Why should that be important? They were disappeared. The effect of their disappearance is repression no matter who actually did it, right?



Hence, looking into the matter continuously so may take time for any update but none can demand something overnight because the issue is big and we are seeing the same from different points of view including who were the handlers and is that a try to avail the opportunity against us etc.... will take time.... You can also read about what Senator Raza Rabbani said about concerns shown by US & UK in this regard. 




Solomon2 said:


> Irony.



Not a plausible reply so I will quote again your post so you can explain what you mean to say, there are a lot of Pakistani Citizens here or what you are pointing at? 




Solomon2 said:


> _*Are citizens supposed act like sheep*_ while wolves prowls in their midst?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Solomon2

The Eagle said:


> Hence, looking into the matter continuously so may take time for any update but none can demand something overnight because the issue is big and we are seeing the same from different points of view including who were the handlers -


So you're conceding that the wolf-snatchers might have rights. You do know that Pakistan's courts trashed that idea years ago, right?



> Not a plausible reply so I will quote again your post so you can explain what you mean to say, there are a lot of Pakistani Citizens here or what you are pointing at?


Simply re-read your answer:_ "I am Pakistani Citizen like many others, living in Pakistan, whom are you calling the sheep here.... None asked any citizen to act as such -" _


----------



## Khafee

Solomon2 said:


> So you're conceding that the wolf-snatchers might have rights. You do know that Pakistan's courts trashed that idea years ago, right?
> 
> Simply re-read your answer:_ "I am Pakistani Citizen like many others, living in Pakistan, whom are you calling the sheep here.... None asked any citizen to act as such -" _


When barbaric zinoists can go gallivanting murdering and slaughtering innocent people, why can't Pakistan atleast question those who post Blasphemous content? 

Well the more you talk, the more you show the world what a bigot you are, and what interests of Pakistan you have in your heart.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## The Eagle

Solomon2 said:


> So you're conceding that the wolf-snatchers might have rights. You do know that Pakistan's courts trashed that idea years ago, right?



See, this how you change the topic every time,,,,,, Why don't you say clearly anything you want to...... Did I say so... what you are referring here except twisting again and again...




Solomon2 said:


> Why be patient?



You asked for why patient and I said, takes time.... so why don't you understand a simple post but come with this one with no substance but presumptions.



Solomon2 said:


> *Are citizens supposed act like sheep* while wolves prowls in their midst?



Again, who you are referring to in this post..??




Solomon2 said:


> Simply re-read your answer:_ "I am Pakistani Citizen like many others, living in Pakistan, whom are you calling the sheep here.... None asked any citizen to act as such -"_



Yeah, nobody treats any Pakistan citizen as sheep... Who you are referring to Sheep in your above quoted post?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## muslim_pakistani

Kashif Arain said:


> Bhensa has been blocked but is there any connection of Salman Haider, a Social Activist has link with this page ?


Jibran Nasir has a connectionn with Bhensaa.

Remove space to see the link below
"https://web.archive.org/web/20170112052250/ https:/twitter.com/MJibranNasir/status/474989083836416000"

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mutakalim

The Sandman said:


> ". . . _But they uttered blasphemy . . . if they repent, it will be best for them, but if they turn back, Allah will punish them._" [Qur'an 9:47]


Are you sure about the reference of this Ayah?



Khanate said:


> Emotional and immature response which hinders dialogue.


Extrapolating things without knowing the actual context is an immature response.


Khanate said:


> 1. If you were *baited* by professional trolls (Bhensa, Tarq Fata, etc.) on social media, you should respond by ridiculing them. Create a parody account and troll them back. However, if you respond by threatening violence then you give them power over yourself. And, this is exactly the way they want you to respond, i.e., violence or "sword'.


No need to ridicule them. Just inform the authorities and they should implement the law of land. The right of using sword rests with the state. I think you didn't understand my post correctly.


----------



## The Sandman

Gillani88 said:


> Are you sure about the reference of this Ayah?


Yes.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mutakalim

The Sandman said:


> ". . . _But they uttered blasphemy . . . if they repent, it will be best for them, but if they turn back, Allah will punish them._" [Qur'an 9:47]


Really??  Anyways thanks for correcting.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Sandman

Gillani88 said:


> Really??  Anyways thanks for correcting.


No problem brother.  See how much freedom of speech our religion allows only if those criticizing and mocking Islam realizes this. sigh

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mutakalim

The Sandman said:


> No problem brother.  See how much freedom of speech our religion allows only if those criticizing and mocking Islam realizes this. sigh


Thanks for correcting the reference.


----------



## Zibago

Solomon2 said:


> What I'm pointing out is that what is "blasphemy" has proved to be a subjective and sliding scale, so the very act of forbidding it leads to extremism.


Even if we leave blasphemy argument aside they still committed treason by their posts and thats a crime in Pakistan


----------



## Mutakalim

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> What's your passionate interest in all of this sir


To stir up Fitnah.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Solomon2

Gillani88 said:


> To stir up Fitnah.


Those in power get to abuse it for personal or demonic purposes but you can't complain because that would be divisive? So it's better to remain ganged-up together and blame foreigners for your problems?


----------



## haviZsultan

Guys we get very offended with these blasphemous pages and often even blame others without proof of blasphemy but I think there are a few things to ponder here. There is a law for blasphemy against Islam. Is there a similar law for minorities too against the abuse and slandering of their religion? I have always called for elimination of blasphemy law as it is all emotions but I won't demand it against the majorities will. But at least lets amend the law to include clauses against people who falsely accuse others of blasphemy and also against the slandering of christian/hindu faiths which is far more common.

I despise Solomon and his hypocritical stand on Israel but I do admit that in article 298b/c we need to stipulate that blasphemy law also applies to insults against Christians and Hindus religion in Pakistan. Otherwise the law is discriminatory.

@Khafee I agree with you on Israel's tyranny and its historical oppression against Palestinians is visible to all but this thread is more pointing towards our own limitations and Israel is a little off topic. Our primary concern should be promoting equality in Pakistan. Then a thousand Israels can't weaken us.

Pakistanis, whether secular, liberal or conservative need to learn to live together with peace. No one should offend the other. And the common ground should be that we all love Pakistan and want whats best for it, no matter how we think what is best for it is different in each of our eyes.


----------



## Solomon2

Zibago said:


> Even if we leave blasphemy argument aside they still committed treason by their posts and thats a crime in Pakistan


We return to the subject of who decides what is or isn't treason. Because it's obviously not Pakistan's judiciary. (Or is there some sort of official secret court involved?)


----------



## Zibago

Solomon2 said:


> We return to the subject of who decides what is or isn't treason. Because it's obviously not Pakistan's judiciary. (Or is there some sort of official secret court involved?)


The cyber crime law has loopholes that do allow officers to take away culprits for imvestigation thet were given certain unconstifutional powers under this law


----------



## haviZsultan

The Sandman said:


> Yes.


Sandman the ayah says "Allah will punish" not "muslims have to take the theka and punish every last one person because my friends neighors cousin's grandfather said so and so had committed blasphemy"

We are overly jingoistic when talking about the blasphemy laws. I don't know how we muslim sons of lions like Ibn Rushd came to this. Everyone should think with a clear and calm head. We need to stop taking offense at everything. Christians and Jews today in the west are far more critical of their own religions than Islam. EU has come to an understanding that religion will be criticized. Representing our religion coolly and with superior knowledge is better than calling to cut the heads of those deemed to insult I say.

The problem isn't just these (unproven insults by) people against Islam. The problem is that we are too sensitive. Iqbal associated the fall of Ijtehad with our downfall. Ijtehad or religious debate should continue. Ijtehad also used to start with the various scholars/philosophers stating "I may be wrong." This is unprecendented in this time and age when the common mullah thinks he is calipha and always right despite his narrow minded views. We need that debate again. Amongst us internally, to understand that all muslims interpret and are allowed to interpret differently and externally, to show the beauty of Islam and its moral superiority to others. This can only be done through debate, not the sword.



Solomon2 said:


> We return to the subject of who decides what is or isn't treason. Because it's obviously not Pakistan's judiciary. (Or is there some sort of official secret court involved?)


Lets not be a typical American hypocrite who scours half the world over something known as wikileaks and arrests its founders for revealing the reality of American people who need wars like mammals need oxygen. 

If we have limitations you are the father of tyrants and if you were to decide who commits treason half your population would be in jail. We need no preaching from a country of tyrants. Do you remember how many activists you put in jail for the Vietnam protests? Or how you used nukes against Japan. Let us solve our own problems. You give the mullahs air and lend them moral support. They will say, look the americans are supporting the liberals in Pakistan. We liberals will get our secular Pakistan on our own. We do not need your condescension or "support" for our cause.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Solomon2

haviZsultan said:


> Lets not be a typical American hypocrite who scours half the world over something known as wikileaks and arrests its founders for revealing the reality of American people who need wars like mammals need oxygen.


Taking actions out of context? You're throwing the tar but it doesn't stick - it's just a lot of tar.



> If we have limitations you are the father of tyrants and if you were to decide who commits treason half your population would be in jail. We need no preaching from a country of tyrants.


Did it EVER occur to you that your "limitations" might be in your evaluation of reality? I think you're mouthing words to validate pre-existing feelings - feelings that themselves might have been evoked using lies and misrepresentations.



> Do you remember how many activists you put in jail for the Vietnam protests? Or how you used nukes against Japan.


I think you need to narrow down what "treason"_ is_ in Pakistani or whatever language you're writing in.


----------



## haviZsultan

Solomon2 said:


> Taking actions out of context? You're throwing the tar but it doesn't stick - it's just a lot of tar.
> 
> Did it EVER occur to you that your "limitations" might be in your evaluation of reality? I think you're mouthing words to validate pre-existing feelings - feelings that themselves might have been evoked using lies and misrepresentations.
> 
> I think you need to narrow down what "treason"_ is_ in Pakistani or whatever language you're writing in.


As I expected. It is how your typical American brain works. You condemn us for judging traitors with our own parochial vision then why have you decided the founders of wikileaks or the diseminators of information for wikileaks are traitors? America will never learn until it is crushed and spattered into a paste. US is a tyrant country, totally hypocritical in its stance and has no superior moral standing with its people trying to teach us to be better. We will find a solution to our problems.


----------



## Spring Onion

Solomon2 said:


> On the contrary: in the name of freedom blasphemous content has to be permitted. Furthermore, only when blasphemy is an option can individuals _choose_ the path



so why in the name of freedom saying haulocast never happend, is not permitted?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## The Sandman

haviZsultan said:


> Sandman the ayah says "Allah will punish" not "muslims have to take the theka and punish every last one person because my friends neighors cousin's grandfather said so and so had committed blasphemy"
> 
> We are overly jingoistic when talking about the blasphemy laws. I don't know how we muslim sons of lions like Ibn Rushd came to this. Everyone should think with a clear and calm head. We need to stop taking offense at everything. Christians and Jews today in the west are far more critical of their own religions than Islam. EU has come to an understanding that religion will be criticized. Representing our religion coolly and with superior knowledge is better than calling to cut the heads of those deemed to insult I say.
> 
> The problem isn't just these (unproven insults by) people against Islam. The problem is that we are too sensitive. Iqbal associated the fall of Ijtehad with our downfall. Ijtehad or religious debate should continue. Ijtehad also used to start with the various scholars/philosophers stating "I may be wrong." This is unprecendented in this time and age when the common mullah thinks he is calipha and always right despite his narrow minded views. We need that debate again. Amongst us internally, to understand that all muslims interpret and are allowed to interpret differently and externally, to show the beauty of Islam and its moral superiority to others. This can only be done through debate, not the sword.


Agreed bro i hope you didn't got me wrong i am actually against the blasphemy law that's why i quoted that ayah to let people know what Quran says about blasphemers.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## M. Sarmad

Psychic said:


> Going by your logic the martyrdom of Hussain R.A and his plans to start a revolt against Yazeed with the help of the Kufans were un-Islamic?
> If someone is trying to kill a person and the state(police) is nowhere to be seen then you will just see that person getting killed and do nothing since it is the state's duty to protect it's citizens and not your obligation to stop the evil?
> 
> Those people did not commit blasphemy by mistake or something like what Salman Taseer or Rimsha Masih did. These people were churning out blasphemous content on a daily basis which is equivalent to spreading fitnah. They had nothing to do with having a healthy debate, constructive criticism or freedom of (hate)speech.
> If an extremist madrassa student can get disappeared so can they, however the right thing is not to abduct people but to try them in the court.



Selective quoting ??

That's not "my" logic, mate ... That's the approach of Traditionalists/Muhaditheen and their blind followers (i.e. the reactionary, obscurantist gnosticism) which I reject .. Read my post again.


And Spreading Fitnah/Mischief on Allah's Earth no doubt is a serious crime, but whether expressing views (no matter how vitriolic) anonymously online _qualifies_ (or not) as "Fitnah" is debatable


I agree with the last part. Courts are there for a purpose


----------



## Abu Zolfiqar

Solomon2 said:


> Those in power get to abuse it for personal or demonic purposes but you can't complain because that would be divisive? So it's better to remain ganged-up together and blame foreigners for your problems?



Your president elect (who isn't averse to "golden showers" and Russian hookers) blames Mexico, Hispanics and evil Muslims for all of americas many woes today. Your comment?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Solomon2

haviZsultan said:


> As I expected. It is how your typical American brain works. You condemn us for judging traitors with our own parochial vision -


Who did the judging? Not the courts. What, then, is your claim to Pakistan being a civilized country at all?




...It is when the most contentious issues come to the fore that the feeling of division is at its most acute.

One extreme view finds the state continuing to unravel. Its crucial falling-out parts choose to stand by those who must oppress and coerce and stifle and frame and plot in the name of national interest and, failing that, for the sake of religion.

They want the law to protect them only to realise later that the law itself is biased and has been honed over time in a manner that it cannot in crucial cases facilitate a fair trial. In this context, consider someone who has been falsely accused of blasphemy. This could well be the end of life for him or her here.

What could lift this gloom, this distrust in one’s powers to effect change and, above all, restore one’s confidence in one’s ability to argue without fear of being shouted down by the mob? Maybe a decision from somewhere that rekindles the belief that even the most powerful and most authoritative of them are answerable to court and accountable for their deeds to the people at large?

That is an ambitious, fate-changing turn we are desperately looking for. But do we, by any chance, sense such an occasion approaching the Pakistani people anytime in the near future?...


----------



## Psychic

Ghareeb_Da_Baal said:


> what he used to say is just as bad as this Bhensa group. The press did a good job of not reporting against a sitting governor. Plus the free media wanted a martyr for their cause & they got one.
> .


It was also bad but criticizing the blasphemy law was what he did and it is done by many. Basically these type of people provoke others to commit violence and then play the victim card.



Solomon2 said:


> Doubtless an ordinary "psychic" like yourself would know!


Their identities were exposed long ago by their relatives, friends and their opponents on the social media. If you want to behave like someone who knows all about Pakistan then continue to make an a** out of yourself on this forum as you always do by commenting on stuff about which you don't know a thing about.

You better worry about your own country where random black people get shot by the police every now and then.
Now sod off.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

haviZsultan said:


> Guys we get very offended with these blasphemous pages and often even blame others without proof of blasphemy but I think there are a few things to ponder here. There is a law for blasphemy against Islam. Is there a similar law for minorities too against the abuse and slandering of their religion? I have always called for elimination of blasphemy law as it is all emotions but I won't demand it against the majorities will. But at least lets amend the law to include clauses against people who falsely accuse others of blasphemy and also against the slandering of christian/hindu faiths which is far more common.
> 
> I despise Solomon and his hypocritical stand on Israel but I do admit that in article 298b/c we need to stipulate that blasphemy law also applies to insults against Christians and Hindus religion in Pakistan. Otherwise the law is discriminatory.
> 
> @Khafee I agree with you on Israel's tyranny and its historical oppression against Palestinians is visible to all but this thread is more pointing towards our own limitations and Israel is a little off topic. Our primary concern should be promoting equality in Pakistan. Then a thousand Israels can't weaken us.
> 
> Pakistanis, whether secular, liberal or conservative need to learn to live together with peace. No one should offend the other. And the common ground should be that we all love Pakistan and want whats best for it, no matter how we think what is best for it is different in each of our eyes.



Eschewed logic as usual, What gives the supporter of barbarians, and genocidal maniacs, the right to point fingers at others?

In future do not address me with your half baked crap, if you know what is good for you.



Solomon2 said:


> Who did the judging? Not the courts. What, then, is your claim to Pakistan being a civilized country at all?
> 
> 
> View attachment 370539
> 
> ...It is when the most contentious issues come to the fore that the feeling of division is at its most acute.
> 
> One extreme view finds the state continuing to unravel. Its crucial falling-out parts choose to stand by those who must oppress and coerce and stifle and frame and plot in the name of national interest and, failing that, for the sake of religion.
> 
> They want the law to protect them only to realise later that the law itself is biased and has been honed over time in a manner that it cannot in crucial cases facilitate a fair trial. In this context, consider someone who has been falsely accused of blasphemy. This could well be the end of life for him or her here.
> 
> What could lift this gloom, this distrust in one’s powers to effect change and, above all, restore one’s confidence in one’s ability to argue without fear of being shouted down by the mob? Maybe a decision from somewhere that rekindles the belief that even the most powerful and most authoritative of them are answerable to court and accountable for their deeds to the people at large?
> 
> That is an ambitious, fate-changing turn we are desperately looking for. But do we, by any chance, sense such an occasion approaching the Pakistani people anytime in the near future?...



The land of barbarians -Israel, is a civilized country? 

Comeback and preach, when Israel stops usurping peoples land & rights. Stops ethnic cleansing, stops the systematic murder of innocent men, women and children.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## haviZsultan

Solomon2 said:


> Who did the judging? Not the courts. What, then, is your claim to Pakistan being a civilized country at all?
> 
> 
> View attachment 370539
> 
> ...It is when the most contentious issues come to the fore that the feeling of division is at its most acute.
> 
> One extreme view finds the state continuing to unravel. Its crucial falling-out parts choose to stand by those who must oppress and coerce and stifle and frame and plot in the name of national interest and, failing that, for the sake of religion.
> 
> They want the law to protect them only to realise later that the law itself is biased and has been honed over time in a manner that it cannot in crucial cases facilitate a fair trial. In this context, consider someone who has been falsely accused of blasphemy. This could well be the end of life for him or her here.
> 
> What could lift this gloom, this distrust in one’s powers to effect change and, above all, restore one’s confidence in one’s ability to argue without fear of being shouted down by the mob? Maybe a decision from somewhere that rekindles the belief that even the most powerful and most authoritative of them are answerable to court and accountable for their deeds to the people at large?
> 
> That is an ambitious, fate-changing turn we are desperately looking for. But do we, by any chance, sense such an occasion approaching the Pakistani people anytime in the near future?...


If the courts call for the incaceration of people like Assange then it means the countries entire institutions are part of the rot. My point is clear. Americans are far worse when it comes to rights abuses. I have been to your pathetic country and know that you Americans are bred on the belief of your moral superiority. This is proved a myth when we take how you have treated rights activists like Assange. You are tyrants and will have a tyrants ending.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BATMAN

haviZsultan said:


> If the courts call for the incaceration of people like Assange then it means the countries entire institutions are part of the rot. My point is clear. Americans are far worse when it comes to rights abuses. I have been to your pathetic country and know that you Americans are bred on the belief of your moral superiority. This is proved a myth when we take how you have treated rights activists like Assange. You are tyrants and will have a tyrants ending.


What is your ideal world... Iran?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## haviZsultan

-------------

We need to improve our countries rights situation. That much is clear




Khafee said:


> Eschewed logic as usual, What gives the supporter of barbarians, and genocidal maniacs, the right to point fingers at others?
> 
> In future do not address me with your half baked crap, if you know what is good for you.
> 
> 
> 
> The land of barbarians -Israel, is a civilized country?
> 
> Comeback and preach, when Israel stops usurping peoples land & rights. Stops ethnic cleansing, stops the systematic murder of innocent men, women and children.


The site is for debate. In every situation there will be people you agree with and disagree with. I will try to avoid qouting you in the future since you like to threaten instead of debate even though I agreed with a lot of what you said. It shows the belief that "you don't agree with me you are wajibul qatal" which is behind the behavior against these bhensa people. I don't see them committing blasphemy here. Its more about our small, easily hurt egos. 

The exact thing that is all wrong with Pakistan today. We need to sit together, accept each others views and debate.



BATMAN said:


> What is your ideal world... Iran?


Bro I never said Iran and its theological constitution is an ideal place. But we need to continue to search for a system best designed for us. One not copied from the west but one also distinct for our own population.


----------



## Khafee

haviZsultan said:


> The site is for debate. In every situation there will be people you agree with and disagree with. I will try to avoid qouting you in the future since you like to threaten instead of debate even though I agreed with a lot of what you said. It shows the belief that "you don't agree with me you are wajibul qatal" which is behind the behavior against these bhensa people. *I don't see them committing blasphemy here*. Its more about our small, easily hurt egos.
> 
> The exact thing that is all wrong with Pakistan today. We need to sit together, accept each others views and debate.


Masafi boy, with what you are in real life, you are bound to have a small fragile ego. Please take good care of it.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## HAIDER

God damn it.....Bhensa page promotion is still going on .......


----------



## Psychic

Azlan Haider said:


> Selective quoting ??


I only quoted parts with which I didn't agree.


Azlan Haider said:


> That's not "my" logic, mate ... That's the approach of Traditionalists/Muhaditheen and their blind followers (i.e. the reactionary, obscurantist gnosticism) which I reject .. Read my post again.
> 
> 
> And Spreading Fitnah/Mischief on Allah's Earth no doubt is a serious crime, but whether expressing views (no matter how vitriolic) anonymously online _qualifies_ (or not) as "Fitnah" is debatable


Hate speech is a fitnah whether the perpetrator of it is a sectarian extremist or an atheist extremist. Churning out such content on a daily basis invites the likes of mumtaz Qadri to take the law into their own hands since the 'state' appears helpless in front of their vitriol.



haviZsultan said:


> The site is for debate. In every situation there will be people you agree with and disagree with. I will try to avoid qouting you in the future since you like to threaten instead of debate even though I agreed with a lot of what you said. It shows the belief that "you don't agree with me you are wajibul qatal" which is behind the* behavior against these bhensa people. I don't see them committing blasphemy here*. Its more about our small, easily hurt egos.
> 
> The exact thing that is all wrong with Pakistan today. We need to sit together, accept each others views and debate.


The bhensa people didn't commit blasphemy? Clearly you are unaware of the extent to which these bhensa etc people went in defaming and mocking our Prophet (SAW). Clearly you haven't visited their pages when they were at their peak for you to make such a statement.

It's not about hurt egos. Criticizing,arguing and raising questions is one thing and mocking someone is quiet another. Just as this forum has some rules, some code of conduct so are there rules regarding blasphemy in Pakistan. You can't make degoratory cartoons of the prohet (SAW) in the Islamic republic of Pakistan which these 'activists' did on a daily basis.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## airmarshal

According to Amir Liaquat program, the Bhensa page is up and running with an Indian IP address.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

Another point of view:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1310211

*I've known Salman Haider for 14 years and he is not anti-Islam*
IMRAN BUKHARI 


In September 2002, I got admission in MSc in Psychology at Government College University (GCU), Lahore. A few months prior, I had pledged allegiance to famous religious scholar Dr Israr Ahmed and made the struggle for an Islamic revolution my primary aim in life.

I met Salman Haider at GCU, where he was a senior in my department. We eventually became great friends. He had a gifted mind and was amongst the few bright students in the programme. Apart from being an excellent student, he was an active participant in the drama and debating clubs.

He won several prizes at the university and was popular amongst students and teachers alike. As a person, he was kindhearted, straightforward, and loving toward people around him.

I come from Multan and whatever inhibitions I had as someone who found himself in a big city, Salman helped me shed them. My integration in a new environment was made possible by Salman. Even though he was liberal and I was religious, he never allowed difference of opinion come between our friendship.

_Read our Editorial: Missing activists_

Just as he was close to his other friends, he was close to me as well. After completing his degree, Salman received a scholarship from the Higher Education Commission (HEC) and moved to Quaid-i-Azam University (QAU) in Islamabad to pursue his PhD.

When I finished my degree, it was Salman who convinced me to apply for the same scholarship. I followed his footsteps and went to QAU for my PhD as well.

QAU’s hostel 2, room 58 had two occupants: Salman and Shahadat. I was unable to get hostel accommodation when I joined the university in 2006. But Salman came to my rescue and gave me space in his room.

The room originally had two single-beds, but Salman and Shahadat took them out and arranged floor beddings instead for the three of us. The only space we had left was between the door and the mattresses; we kept our shoes there. Although we had a fan, the room used to get so hot that we had to soak our mattresses with water every two hours.

One summer, two friends from Multan gave me a surprise visit. I thought they would go back later at night, but they were planning on sleeping over. We barely had room to move, but Salman accommodated us all. He gave his bed to my friends and slept on a _chador_ in the little space where we had our shoes.

_On the same topic: Times of iron and fire: The case of Pakistan's missing activists_

As I mentioned earlier, I have been a follower of Dr Israr Ahmed since 2002. In these years, my religious thought has developed and my inclination toward Islam has increased. So when I saw the propaganda against Salman on social media, I felt it was time for me to tell people the truth about my dear friend.

*I have known Salman for 14 years and in that time, I never heard him express anti-theistic or anti-Islam sentiments. He was not against religion, but against ignorance, narrow-mindedness, and socio-political oppression. It is an outright lie that Salman was against Islam.*

Those who are smearing him don’t know how enlightened he was. Gifted people like Salman are assets to our society.

I found Salman’s views and values to be far more humanistic than the values of these so-called _mazhab ke thekedaars._

Salman valued logic and rationality was his litmus test for accepting or rejecting ideas. He always listened to contesting views graciously. He was especially critical of people who exploited slogans and political ideologies for their own benefit. I often heard Salman criticising his own comrades.

Our deep friendship was due to his broad-mindedness and accepting nature. And even though we were on opposing ideological poles, we still found common ground when it came to our analysis of society.

We both wondered why Muslims were never able to live peacefully with each other even though they were all followers of the same religion.

Our second grievance was regarding the role of the state. We both firmly believed that it was the state’s responsibility to ensure the welfare, well-being and security of its citizens.

_Read further: Salman Haider’s disappearance won’t silence our voices_

We would often lament how this country, whose founders envisaged it to be a welfare state, had deviated from those ideals.

Today, power, authority and wealth are concentrated in the hands of a few. As soon as the exploited, cheated, and oppressed raise their voices to demand their rights, they are labeled ‘traitors,’ ‘foreign agents,’ ‘anti-religion’ and so on.

I think one such voice was Salman's. Unsurprisingly, he is now being labeled as a ‘traitor’ and a ‘blasphemer’.

*Salman’s real crime was to raise his voice – not for his personal benefit but for the rights of others. His crime was to dream of a society where there was freedom and where people lived without fear.*

It is really painful for me to be part of demonstrations demanding Salman’s recovery.

He used to protest against the missing persons and now he himself is missing.

He wanted freedom for others, but today we wait for him to be freed.

_This blog originally appeared in Urdu and has been translated by Bilal Karim Mughal._

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mrc

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> *Salman’s real crime was to raise his voice – not for his personal benefit but for the rights of others. His crime was to dream of a society where there was freedom and where people lived without fear.*




what voice did he raise? every post ob their pages are anti islam in one sense or the other....

can any one point out a single issue that these guys have worked on for social good, and that too without trying to defile islam?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## haviZsultan

Khafee said:


> Masafi boy, with what you are in real life, you are bound to have a small fragile ego. Please take good care of it.


Friend I have nothing personal against you. You are always combative though just because we happened to disagree once. If this is not a fragile ego what is.



Psychic said:


> I only quoted parts with which I didn't agree.
> 
> Hate speech is a fitnah whether the perpetrator of it is a sectarian extremist or an atheist extremist. Churning out such content on a daily basis invites the likes of mumtaz Qadri to take the law into their own hands since the 'state' appears helpless in front of their vitriol.
> 
> 
> The bhensa people didn't commit blasphemy? Clearly you are unaware of the extent to which these bhensa etc people went in defaming and mocking our Prophet (SAW). Clearly you haven't visited their pages when they were at their peak for you to make such a statement.
> 
> It's not about hurt egos. Criticizing,arguing and raising questions is one thing and mocking someone is quiet another. Just as this forum has some rules, some code of conduct so are there rules regarding blasphemy in Pakistan. You can't make degoratory cartoons of the prohet (SAW) in the Islamic republic of Pakistan which these 'activists' did on a daily basis.


If they did the law should take action, not vigilantes. It should be proven in a court of law that they hurt the sentiments of the majority. As I said I feel we are far too sensitive about blasphemy. Such debates critical to all religion were held in part during the abassid caliphate as well. Note that I am not supported supposed blasphemy but promoting debate.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

> Bhensa active again even more blasphemous stuff, Govt of Pakistan should put pressure on F.B to block this page or in case of refusal from F.B ban F.B in Pakistan like Youtube.



Such bans simply do not work, as was the case with YouTube as well. Banning FB within Pakistan will also achieve nothing. Tolerance is the answer.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SirHatesALot

You folks just gave some random bloggers international attention.congrats.


----------



## Skywalker

I wasn't even aware what Bhensa or mochi or some other pages were, but the day we started discussing them in the media and different forums they got the publicity tenfolds and this is what I believed our enemies want, they know we are bunch of emotional stupid people and would ultimately play in their hands, read the history we are committing same mistakes time n again only medium or way of doing it is changed. Please for once don't fall in those basturds traps.


----------



## haviZsultan

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Such bans simply do not work, as was the case with YouTube as well. Banning FB within Pakistan will also achieve nothing. Tolerance is the answer.


Instead of keeping "blasphemous content" away from the Pakistani public the youtube ban succeeded in stealing the income of numerous video producers, stifle the rights of activists and disallowed Pakistani citizens to speak for their religion positively. If the ban on youtube was against blasphemy then it only kept away Pakistanis from expressing themselves on youtube or even finding knowledge on the great platform. It was the biggest failure of the government

Not surprisingly our dogmatic stand on banning all perceived blasphemy without proof is having a similar result. It only gives the anti Islam activists voice. Banning criticism on religion does not allow us or moderate theologians to argue against or express themselves and mainstream Islam peacefully. Instead it crystalizes our opponents often negative views of Islamic tolerance. Christians are far more critical of Christianity than muslims. They are being neutral not us.

I still do believe that action against proven blasphemy should take place but we perceive blasphemy in our own small tiny ways.


----------



## VCheng

haviZsultan said:


> I still do believe that action against proven blasphemy should take place but we perceive blasphemy in our own small tiny ways.



The best action to take against perceived blasphemy for any religion is to tolerate it. Everything else, as you describe, is counter-productive.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## WarFariX

Khafee said:


> Don't worry, interesting times ahead. Wait and watch.


bro r u local uae or a pakistani overseas?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

haviZsultan said:


> Friend I have nothing personal against you. You are always combative though just because we happened to disagree once. If this is not a fragile ego what is.



You do have something personal against me. I avoid your childish nonsense but you keep quoting me, and keep talking crap, as in this particular case, where as per you Bhensa did not commit Blasphemy.

Don't worry Masafi boy, interesting times ahead. Wait and watch.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

Committing blasphemy, by itself, is _not _a valid or sufficient reason for _anyone _to go missing without due process of law.


----------



## Khafee

RedHorse said:


> Yes we should sent them to hell without asking explanation.
> 
> @Khafee
> Bro the person you are engaging is Shia migrated family from India have great love for Iran and hate for us especially who are Arab or lives there.


Duly noted. 

Thank You

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The Sandman

RedHorse said:


> On Namoos e Risalat no tolerance keep it to yourself, In that case call Ghazi Ilam Din a intihaa prast along with M.A jinnah who wants to fight his case.


That guy was a murderer and nothing more than that the retard who wrote that book committed a sin and Allah will punish him but he also committed a major sin because he murdered another human who gave him that right? no one.


----------



## The Sandman

RedHorse said:


> This guy called Ghazi Ilm Din a murder.....
> 
> Screen shot taken and Inshallah soon will be reported
> 
> @Horus @Slav Defence @WebMaster @Khafee
> 
> Please take action against those who are calling and abusing our heroes of Islam and propagating liberal atheistism and doing blasphemy.


*ISLAM DO NOT ORDER YOU TO KILL SOMEONE *because of blasphemy understand this thing pls go ahead and make 10000 copies of that screenshot because fact is he murdered another human and that makes him a murderer and what is this liberal, atheism BS? i am just telling you what Quran and Islam teaches us. Tell me this do you also consider mumtaz qadri a hero and a shaheed? NauzbillAh.



RedHorse said:


> heroes of Islam


NauzbillAh NauzbillAh NauzbillAh may Allah forgive you for making a murderer hero of Islam!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The Sandman

RedHorse said:


> Check the @Zibago team member's comments and views.


Team member? he's my friend and so is jonah arthur django and a few others.


----------



## The Sandman

RedHorse said:


>


 so instead of countering me with facts and logic you're threatening me with this really? i didn't committed any blasphemy so what are you gonna tell police? 


RedHorse said:


> They don't know your ugly faces and reality.


oh really than let me tag all of them and lets expose your dirty extremist nature.
@Khafee @django @Hell hound @Mentee 
@Zibago @Zaki @Moonlight @RealNapster

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## The Sandman

RedHorse said:


> @Zaki
> 
> I have screen shots even post still available above in which he call Ghazi ilm Din shaheed a murderer.


Didn't he murdered another human answer in yes or no.



RedHorse said:


> @Zaki
> 
> I have screen shots even post still available above in which he call Ghazi ilm Din shaheed a murderer.
> 
> @The Sandman
> 
> Tag real person to get me ban Ok I will help you @WAJsal


FYI zaki is also a mod and why would i want you to get ban? it's good let everyone see your extremist views.


----------



## RealNapster

RedHorse said:


> They don't know your ugly faces and reality.
> 
> @Farah Sohail @RealNapster @Tipu7 @Horus
> @The Sandman aka Bhensa group is calling Ghazi Ilm Din Shaheed murderer for whome Muhammed Ali Jinnah wants to fight against British and he is a team member of @Zibago




I knew that. @The Sandman .. You cheat.. You liar. you you you you you..........

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The Sandman

RealNapster said:


> I knew that. @The Sandman .. You cheat.. You liar. you you you you you..........


 my cover is blown

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## RealNapster

RedHorse said:


> Ghazi ilm Din shaheed



Sorry sir. pardon me for my lack of knowledge. but i don't know this personlaity. can you reffer me some links so that i can read about him ? or just in 5-6 bullet lines explain me who he was ?


----------



## The Sandman

RedHorse said:


> He kills the swine So I would like to.


Ah than say it like that zaki can do that too don't worry he will take care of swi--- i mean you very soon don't worry. btw are you a muslim? *i mean you're abusing others didn't our Prophet teach not to abuse others?*


----------



## RealNapster

The Sandman said:


> my cover is blown




@The Sandman ki aik aise harkat, jisay aap dekh kar heraan reh jaaye or apka use jaan se marne ka dil kary ga... @Hell hound .. @Mentee .. in Facebook media style.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The Sandman

RealNapster said:


> @The Sandman ki aik aise harkat, jisay aap dekh kar heraan reh jaaye or apka use jaan se marne ka dil kary ga... @Hell hound .. @Mentee .. in Facebook media style.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Moonlight

RealNapster said:


> @The Sandman ki aik aise harkat, jisay aap dekh kar heraan reh jaaye or apka use jaan se marne ka dil kary ga... @Hell hound .. @Mentee .. in Facebook media style.




*link main deakhen*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## RealNapster

RedHorse said:


> @RealNapster
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PDF is full of filth and Khanzeer Zaday AKA Bhensa ki najayaz oulad.




Well . Sir ! i am unaware of the details of this "deeni masla" . but one thing is for sure that Islam do not allow us to kill some one. 

BUT ...... if there is an exception for namoos-e-risaalat that i am unaware of. i will read further about this issue. before full research, i can not comment on such sensitive issue. hope you will understand my Position.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RealNapster

Moonlight said:


> *link main deakhen*




..

Sorry ye part reh gya tha... acha yaad dilaya..

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The Sandman

RedHorse said:


> @The Sandman
> What you think about Salman Haider, Waqas etc and about Bhensa a serious question.


They committed blasphemy in my opinion but that doesn't give someone the right to kill them or even punish them because Quran tells us to ignore the ignorants and let Allah handle them. 
*". . . But they uttered blasphemy . . . if they repent, it will be best for them, but if they turn back, Allah will punish them." [Qur'an 9:47]*
Because punishing/killing them will put Islam and Prophets message in a bad light. Prophet never ordered the killing or punishing those who insulted him.



Moonlight said:


> *link main deakhen*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hold up

don't insult ghazi ilm din shaheed by calling him names like murderer, do u know what that hindoo rajpal had written about Rasool (saw). all kinds of insults and abuses intended to provoke Muslims.

be a liberal but not at the cost of ur own faith, and don't act more hindoo than the hindoos themselves. they don't care about u

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## The Sandman

RealNapster said:


> BUT ...... if there is an exception for namoos-e-risaalat that i am unaware of. i will read further about this issue. before full research, i can not comment on such sensitive issue. hope you will understand my Position.


You tell me a Man who spared a whole city who insulted him threw stones at him who came with the message of peace would wish/order killing or punishing someone who made derogatory remarks about him?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## RealNapster

The Sandman said:


> You tell me a Man who spared a whole city who insulted him threw stones at him who came with the message of peace would wish/order killing or punishing someone who made derogatory remarks about him?




Well. sir . i am blank. unaware of the masla so can not comment on this issue for now.


----------



## Moonlight

RedHorse said:


> Moonlight once I call you sister and I am not expecting that you favor a person who called Ghazi ilm Din a murderer and favor Bhensa....so sad you are good at modeling thread cheap flirt chat and



Excuse me? What the hell? I didn't even post anything on this matter. And you are stating what you are imagining? 
Please refrain posting about me. My posting in that thread is my personal matter. And you better stop character assassinate of membersLastly, I still have a bit respect for you. So, don't let it get to an end. 

Regards!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## The Sandman

Ehtesham96 said:


> don't insult ghazi ilm din shaheed by calling him names like murderer, do u know what that hindoo rajpal had written about Rasool (saw). all kinds of insults and abuses intended to provoke Muslims.
> 
> be a liberal but not at the cost of ur own faith, and don't act more hindoo than the hindoos themselves. they don't care about muslims no need to care about them


What the hell? i am not trying to act like ''hindoos'' nor i am trying to please someone i am just saying what is truth i am as much Muslim as you or anyone else here is and i am not trying to insult or provoke anyone i am calling him what he was. 



RealNapster said:


> Well. sir . i am blank. unaware of the masla so can not comment on this issue for now.


You don't know about ilm din? well this can give you a summary about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hell hound

RealNapster said:


> @The Sandman ki aik aise harkat, jisay aap dekh kar heraan reh jaaye or apka use jaan se marne ka dil kary ga... @Hell hound .. @Mentee .. in Facebook media style.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mentee

The Sandman said:


>


Sandy leave it man , yeh Pakistan hain matlab khudd samjh ja property issues p ilzam lg jaaty itnay kaminay log b rehty yaha

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The Sandman

Mentee said:


> Sandy leave it man , yeh Pakistan hain matlab khudd samjh ja property issues p ilzam lg jaaty itnay kaminay log b rehty yaha


Yr i just wanted to have a simple civilized convo but nope he went full...........

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Spring Onion

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Another point of view:
> 
> http://www.dawn.com/news/1310211
> 
> *I've known Salman Haider for 14 years and he is not anti-Islam*
> IMRAN BUKHARI
> 
> _l._



http://tribune.com.pk/story/1301326/nisar-says-no-plan-book-activists-blasphemy/

*Nisar says no plan to book activists for blasphemy*

By Qadeer Tanoli

Published: January 20, 2017


ISLAMABAD: 


*The federal government has no plan to register blasphemy cases against digital rights activists who went missing earlier this month, Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan said on Thursday.


Rubbishing social media reports that the government was planning to charge the missing bloggers with blasphemy, he said these were ‘baseless, absurd and non-serious’. “There is no truth in [reports of] registration of cases against the missing bloggers. All these news items are ridiculous,” Nisar said in a statement released by his ministry.*

*Missing activists’ families refute blasphemy allegations*

The minister said the issue was being complicated further by the ‘feeding of wrong information by some elements’. “Negative propaganda and advertisement of incorrect information is evident proof of the senselessness of such elements,” he said. “These elements don’t realise that this behaviour will increase the miseries of the affected families.”

Nisar added that the government is for now entirely focused on the safe recovery of the missing activists. “All possible efforts are being made in this connection,” he said while expressing sympathy with activists’ families.

Activists Salman Haider, Ahmed Waqas Goraya, Asim Saeed, Ahmed Raza Naseer and Samar Abbas went missing on different dates earlier this month. Since their disappearance, reports have been circulating on social media that they might be charged with blasphemy.

A few days ago, an application was filed in Islamabad’s I-9 police station for registering a blasphemy case against the missing activists. The application submitted by Muhammad Tahir, chairman of the ‘Civil Society of Pakistan’, accused the activists of hosting Facebook pages with inflammatory and blasphemous content.

*Lahore student tortured for tweeting on missing digital activists*

Although police officials have confirmed they received the application, they said they have not registered any blasphemy case yet.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## haviZsultan

Khafee said:


> You do have something personal against me. I avoid your childish nonsense but you keep quoting me, and keep talking crap, as in this particular case, where as per you Bhensa did not commit Blasphemy.
> 
> Don't worry Masafi boy, interesting times ahead. Wait and watch.


Talking to you is like talking to a belligerent child who takes things over the internet very seriously. You are like a petty child, holding a grudge because you do not have the capability to debate.

As for your stance, you express incapability to grasp the intricacies of nation building and how providing freedom is more important than this kind of religious fervor. This is an emotional stand, not a logical one.

Regadless from my side its not about not agreeing with your views. We can agree to disagree. But you are always combative. Also are you trying to scare me with this masafi nonsense. I have already had severe problems with Indians. If they couldn't do anything you are a puny little person in this regard. As I said very petty of you. 



Spring Onion said:


> http://tribune.com.pk/story/1301326/nisar-says-no-plan-book-activists-blasphemy/
> 
> *Nisar says no plan to book activists for blasphemy*
> 
> By Qadeer Tanoli
> 
> Published: January 20, 2017
> 
> 
> ISLAMABAD:
> 
> 
> *The federal government has no plan to register blasphemy cases against digital rights activists who went missing earlier this month, Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan said on Thursday.
> 
> 
> Rubbishing social media reports that the government was planning to charge the missing bloggers with blasphemy, he said these were ‘baseless, absurd and non-serious’. “There is no truth in [reports of] registration of cases against the missing bloggers. All these news items are ridiculous,” Nisar said in a statement released by his ministry.*
> 
> *Missing activists’ families refute blasphemy allegations*
> 
> The minister said the issue was being complicated further by the ‘feeding of wrong information by some elements’. “Negative propaganda and advertisement of incorrect information is evident proof of the senselessness of such elements,” he said. “These elements don’t realise that this behaviour will increase the miseries of the affected families.”
> 
> Nisar added that the government is for now entirely focused on the safe recovery of the missing activists. “All possible efforts are being made in this connection,” he said while expressing sympathy with activists’ families.
> 
> Activists Salman Haider, Ahmed Waqas Goraya, Asim Saeed, Ahmed Raza Naseer and Samar Abbas went missing on different dates earlier this month. Since their disappearance, reports have been circulating on social media that they might be charged with blasphemy.
> 
> A few days ago, an application was filed in Islamabad’s I-9 police station for registering a blasphemy case against the missing activists. The application submitted by Muhammad Tahir, chairman of the ‘Civil Society of Pakistan’, accused the activists of hosting Facebook pages with inflammatory and blasphemous content.
> 
> *Lahore student tortured for tweeting on missing digital activists*
> 
> Although police officials have confirmed they received the application, they said they have not registered any blasphemy case yet.


I believe the idea that they committed blasphemy is a figment of our imagination. If they are too critical for our tastes I have seen far more army/(and even) Islam critical posts from NF Paracha and Marvi Sirmid. Even when we disagree with these people its better to debate with them rather than punish them. Asking for tolerance in society is a little too much these days.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Committing blasphemy, by itself, is _not _a valid or sufficient reason for _anyone _to go missing without due process of law.


you have any hidden agenda or something? why do you keep blaming institutions for missing or hiding "activists".

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

haviZsultan said:


> Talking to you is like talking to a belligerent child who takes things over the internet very seriously. You are like a petty child, holding a grudge because you do not have the capability to debate.
> 
> As for your stance, you express incapability to grasp the intricacies of nation building and how providing freedom is more important than this kind of religious fervor. This is an emotional stand, not a logical one.
> 
> Regadless from my side its not about not agreeing with your views. We can agree to disagree. But you are always combative. Also are you trying to scare me with this masafi nonsense. I have already had severe problems with Indians. If they couldn't do anything you are a puny little person in this regard. As I said very petty of you.
> 
> 
> I believe the idea that they committed blasphemy is a figment of our imagination. If they are too critical for our tastes I have seen far more army/(and even) Islam critical posts from NF Paracha and Marvi Sirmid. Even when we disagree with these people its better to debate with them rather than punish them. Asking for tolerance in society is a little too much these days.




Masafi boy, Actions speak louder than words.



haviZsultan said:


> these bhensa people. I don't see them committing blasphemy here. Its more about our small, easily hurt egos.





haviZsultan said:


> I believe the idea that they committed blasphemy is a figment of our imagination

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## haviZsultan

Respect4Respect01 said:


> you have any hidden agenda or something? why do you keep blaming institutions for missing or hiding "activists".


No institution can be blamed for the disappearances. When I was having problems with crazy Indians there was an Ahmedi officer who checked my case. The armed forces are far more secular than any institution in the country. Then comes the politicians who are not just secular but very far away from Islam with their whoring, drinking and nepotism. I have no doubt that this is not done by polticians/army but by terrorists and vile criminals.

That doesn't excuse them however. Taseer and Shahbaz Bhatti murders should have been a wake up call for us. Taseer's son was kidnapped for a decade by Uzbek factions allied/in the TTP. Perhaps the same elements are active now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Respect4Respect01

haviZsultan said:


> Talking to you is like talking to a belligerent child who takes things over the internet very seriously. You are like a petty child, holding a grudge because you do not have the capability to debate.
> 
> As for your stance, you express incapability to grasp the intricacies of nation building and how providing freedom is more important than this kind of religious fervor. This is an emotional stand, not a logical one.
> 
> Regadless from my side its not about not agreeing with your views. We can agree to disagree. But you are always combative. Also are you trying to scare me with this masafi nonsense. I have already had severe problems with Indians. If they couldn't do anything you are a puny little person in this regard. As I said very petty of you.
> 
> 
> I believe the idea that they committed blasphemy is a figment of our imagination. If they are too critical for our tastes I have seen far more army/(and even) Islam critical posts from NF Paracha and Marvi Sirmid. Even when we disagree with these people its better to debate with them rather than punish them. Asking for tolerance in society is a little too much these days.


Changing verses of Quran, making cartoons of PBUH, writing things that no Muslim can even imagine reading, that is not blasphemy to you?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

Asking for the rule of law to implemented does not blame any institution, as long as the law is followed.


----------



## Respect4Respect01

haviZsultan said:


> No institution can be blamed for the disappearances. When I was having problems with crazy Indians there was an Ahmedi officer who checked my case. The armed forces are far more secular than any institution in the country. Then comes the politicians who are not just secular but very far away from Islam with their whoring, drinking and nepotism. I have no doubt that this is not done by polticians/army but by terrorists and vile criminals.
> 
> That doesn't excuse them however. Taseer and Shahbaz Bhatti murders should have been a wake up call for us. Taseer's son was kidnapped for a decade by Uzbek factions allied/in the TTP. Perhaps the same elements are active now.


i know, but that guy keeps blaming the institutions and he doesn't have any proof.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## haviZsultan

Respect4Respect01 said:


> i know, but that guy keeps blaming the institutions and he doesn't have any proof.


We can't cut someones tongue out now can we? As long as humans are alive they will question. It is part of our nature. I disagree with him on his lack of trust in the army or other institutions but thats the way life works. You agree with people and you disagree. We are too quick to ask for cut heads when the world is advancing. We are stuck on the size of our beard or the lenght of our shalwar when the world has advanced beyond these questions, beyond pettiness. And Islam also does not demand us to think pettily. 

Its surprising however when people take things personally like khafee. We have to work together as Pakistanis, not get bogged down by emotional and single minded arguments. I send a hand of friendship to maulana @Khafee too. 

This thread explores our narrow parochial vision. All I have heard on it are 1) unproven claims of blasphemy
2) vigilante ideals. They must be punished.

Its a slippery slope friend. Once we instead of Allah start judging people we will all be khalifas.


----------



## The Sandman

Respect4Respect01 said:


> i know, but that guy keeps blaming the institutions and he doesn't have any proof.


Basically just like the indians according to him ISI and Army is behind every ill in our country.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Respect4Respect01

haviZsultan said:


> We can't cut someones tongue out now can we? As long as humans are alive they will question. It is part of our nature. I disagree with him on his lack of trust in the army or other institutions but thats the way life works. You agree with people and you disagree. We are too quick to ask for cut heads when the world is advancing. We are stuck on the size of our beard or the lenght of our shalwar when the world has advanced beyond these questions, beyond pettiness. And Islam also does not demand us to think pettily.
> 
> Its surprising however when people take things personally like khafee. We have to work together as Pakistanis, not get bogged down by emotional and single minded arguments. I send a hand of friendship to maulana @Khafee too.
> 
> This thread explores our narrow parochial vision. All I have heard on it are 1) unproven claims of blasphemy
> 2) vigilante ideals. They must be punished.
> 
> Its a slippery slope friend. Once we instead of Allah start judging people we will all be khalifas.


nobody is cutting his tongue out, i debated with him very nicely and asked him many times what proofs he has against army, he doesn't have any. If you can't provide proofs then atleast you need to be fair and not blame one side only.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Panther 57

Respect4Respect01 said:


> nobody is cutting his tongue out, i debated with him very nicely and asked him many times what proofs he has against army, he doesn't have any. If you can't provide proofs then atleast you need to be fair and not blame one side only.


It is not necessary that the missing persons are with any LEU. There are many others who may be interested in discussing his thoughts. There are number of self proclaimed jurist roaming around among us (means in our society).

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Respect4Respect01

haviZsultan said:


> We are stuck on the size of our beard or the lenght of our shalwar when the world has advanced beyond these questions, beyond pettiness. And Islam also does not demand us to think pettily.
> 
> Its surprising however when people take things personally like khafee. We have to work together as Pakistanis, not get bogged down by emotional and single minded arguments. I send a hand of friendship to maulana @Khafee too.
> 
> This thread explores our narrow parochial vision. All I have heard on it are 1) unproven claims of blasphemy
> 2) vigilante ideals. They must be punished.
> 
> Its a slippery slope friend. Once we instead of Allah start judging people we will all be khalifas.


Beard and length of shalwaar are part of Sunnah, and you are not forced to follow it if you don't want to, there is no need to call it a petty thinking.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

Respect4Respect01 said:


> Beard and length of shalwaar are part of Sunnah, and you are not forced to follow it if you don't want to, there is no need to call it a petty thinking.


This is the difference between a liberal and a libturd

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Khafee said:


> This is the difference between a liberal and a libturd


Liberals are supposed to be open minded, but most "desi liberals" think that abusing Islam and calling Muslims extremists is liberalism.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Spring Onion

haviZsultan said:


> I believe the idea that they committed blasphemy is a figment of our imagination. If they are too critical for our tastes I have seen far more army/(and even) Islam critical posts from NF Paracha and Marvi Sirmid. Even when we disagree with these people its better to debate with them rather than punish them. Asking for tolerance in society is a little too much these days.



You have every right to believe what you want to believe. I personally believe that criticizing ARMY is not an issue and as you have mentioned Marvi, NFP and many more had been criticising Army rather blaming it even for blowing of wind so basically that is not an issue.

Now please come to this point of Islam critical posts be these by anyone; if someone is putting his or her view or argue even aspects of Islamic way of life or teaching without resorting to abusive language and disrespect then that is not an issue because if you have some knowledge of Islamic history we see that people were allowed to question and were answered by prominent Islamic personalities BUT the main issue is ABUSIVE and tasteless language these so called liberals or so called activists often use.

Please be clear that such language is not at all freedom of speech but it is an attempt to stir emotions and ignite violence simple as that.

Please read this thread in details and you will find some posts where the members have posted some images and quotes from some more FB pages of such liberals or 'social activists" (Not these four but some other such activists), and you will understand why it is offending to a level of intolerance.

Many supporters of these missing persons on this forum claimed that they were 'picked' up by agencies for their liberal views or blasphemous views or for that matter even criticising army.

Now please take some time out and conduct thorough research and tell us when was the last time agencies had picked up anyone for his or her liberal views or when was the last time agencies had picked up any blasphemer ????


There are many journalists in Pakistani media who's bred and butter is criticising army non of them had been picked up merely for this.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## haviZsultan

Spring Onion said:


> You have every right to believe what you want to believe. I personally believe that criticizing ARMY is not an issue and as you have mentioned Marvi, NFP and many more had been criticising Army rather blaming it even for blowing of wind so basically that is not an issue.



Every institution out in the public eye will be criticized. However it is a fact that the army is the least corrupt institution in the country. 



> Now please come to this point of Islam critical posts be these by anyone; if someone is putting his or her view or argue even aspects of Islamic way of life or teaching without resorting to abusive language and disrespect then that is not an issue because if you have some knowledge of Islamic history we see that people were allowed to question and were answered by prominent Islamic personalities BUT the main issue is ABUSIVE and tasteless language these so called liberals or so called activists often use.



I have already stated that such abusive language and hatred is unwanted, even against the army. A nation has to have some limits. If Tunisia can ban headscarves and Somalia/Brunei christmas . I am not arguing against the fact that insults to Islam and abuse is wrong. I am only disagreeing with the course of action. Calling a wrong and evil comments against are prophet wrong is my duty but it is not my task to make them pay.


> Please be clear that such language is not at all freedom of speech but it is an attempt to stir emotions and ignite violence simple as that.



I agree. Its tricky however what kind of punishment should be given to such individuals.



> Please read this thread in details and you will find some posts where the members have posted some images and quotes from some more FB pages of such liberals or 'social activists" (Not these four but some other such activists), and you will understand why it is offending to a level of intolerance.



I haven't checked every page of the thread nor do I have the time to go through each page. I see it as nitpicking though, going through the entire thread to find something blasphemous. But if they did commit blasphemy I would rather leave them to God's punishment than my own. I can only debate with them and hope they see the light.


> Many supporters of these missing persons on this forum claimed that they were 'picked' up by agencies for their liberal views or blasphemous views or for that matter even criticising army.



I disagree with that, as I have done in numerous posts. The army is the only purely secular institution in the country. They have no stomach or wish to kidnap activists known for being critical. Blaming the army is going full crazy. And the government too does not have the will or wish to take part in criminal activity and is both morally and completely corrupt.



> Now please take some time out and conduct thorough research and tell us when was the last time agencies had picked up anyone for his or her liberal views or when was the last time agencies had picked up any blasphemer ????



Never, friend, never. In fact each time, including the shahbaz taseer case, it was proven beyond a shadow of doubt that the TTP/IMU were the top movements involved in kidnap cases.



> There are many journalists in Pakistani media who's bred and butter is criticising army non of them had been picked up merely for this.



I agree.


----------



## Respect4Respect01

haviZsultan said:


> I haven't checked every page of the thread nor do I have the time to go through each page. I see it as nitpicking though, going through the entire thread to find something blasphemous. But if they did commit blasphemy I would rather leave them to God's punishment than my own. I can only debate with them and hope they see the light.
> 
> .



My friend, nobody is trying to kill or punish them, in fact only courts have the right to punish them. Nobody has any problem with their beliefs if they keep it to themselves, but they chose to insult Islam and provoke Muslims for no reason, what do they want to prove? I wish i could show you what they posted on their bhensa page but i just can't because their posts are so filthy that i can't even look at them.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Sinnerman108

Spring Onion said:


> You have every right to believe what you want to believe. I personally believe that criticizing ARMY is not an issue and as you have mentioned Marvi, NFP and many more had been criticising Army rather blaming it even for blowing of wind so basically that is not an issue.
> 
> Now please come to this point of Islam critical posts be these by anyone; if someone is putting his or her view or argue even aspects of Islamic way of life or teaching without resorting to abusive language and disrespect then that is not an issue because if you have some knowledge of Islamic history we see that people were allowed to question and were answered by prominent Islamic personalities BUT the main issue is ABUSIVE and tasteless language these so called liberals or so called activists often use.
> 
> Please be clear that such language is not at all freedom of speech but it is an attempt to stir emotions and ignite violence simple as that.
> 
> Please read this thread in details and you will find some posts where the members have posted some images and quotes from some more FB pages of such liberals or 'social activists" (Not these four but some other such activists), and you will understand why it is offending to a level of intolerance.
> 
> Many supporters of these missing persons on this forum claimed that they were 'picked' up by agencies for their liberal views or blasphemous views or for that matter even criticising army.
> 
> Now please take some time out and conduct thorough research and tell us when was the last time agencies had picked up anyone for his or her liberal views or when was the last time agencies had picked up any blasphemer ????
> 
> 
> There are many journalists in Pakistani media who's bred and butter is criticising army non of them had been picked up merely for this.



I expected better, at least from you.

Internet doesn't work this way. 
Someone has a page, and it is YOUR conscious decision when you visit that page.
and read the material which is there.

If you don't like the material, then block that page.

What rights do state institutions have to regulate someone's thought process ?
and how is that any different than TTP in principle ?

Lastly, do state institutions have a mandate to uphold sanctity or necessity of religion ?
If it is not expressly allowed by in our constitution, then these institutions over stepped.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Respect4Respect01

haviZsultan said:


> I haven't checked every page of the thread nor do I have the time to go through each page. I see it as nitpicking though, going through the entire thread to find something blasphemous. But if they did commit blasphemy I would rather leave them to God's punishment than my own. I can only debate with them and hope they see the light.
> 
> .



Here i found some screenshots for you to see bro.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## django

Moonlight said:


> Excuse me? What the hell? I didn't even post anything on this matter. And you are stating what you are imagining?
> Please refrain posting about me. My posting in that thread is my personal matter. And you better stop character assassinate of membersLastly, I still have a bit respect for you. So, don't let it get to an end.
> 
> Regards!


Rattay sahib this is no way to talk to a sister, @Moonlight is a fine, fine person and she does not support bhensa vermins, overload you are a patriot and a good man, threatening Sheikh and Sandy will not enhance your reputation nor is it a commendable act.Kudos

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zibago

Moonlight said:


> Excuse me? What the hell? I didn't even post anything on this matter. And you are stating what you are imagining?
> Please refrain posting about me. My posting in that thread is my personal matter. And you better stop character assassinate of membersLastly, I still have a bit respect for you. So, don't let it get to an end.
> 
> Regards!


ignore the hypocrite dung hole he has no shame all he can do is insult people and put question marks on others


----------



## VCheng

Sinnerman108 said:


> I expected better, at least from you.
> 
> Internet doesn't work this way.
> Someone has a page, and it is YOUR conscious decision when you visit that page.
> and read the material which is there.
> 
> If you don't like the material, then block that page.
> 
> What rights do state institutions have to regulate someone's thought process ?
> and how is that any different than TTP in principle ?
> 
> Lastly, do state institutions have a mandate to uphold sanctity or necessity of religion ?
> If it is not expressly allowed by in our constitution, then these institutions over stepped.



Very well put.


----------



## Spring Onion

Sinnerman108 said:


> I expected better, at least from you.
> 
> Internet doesn't work this way.
> Someone has a page, and it is YOUR conscious decision when you visit that page.
> and read the material which is there.
> 
> If you don't like the material, then block that page.
> 
> What rights do state institutions have to regulate someone's thought process ?
> and how is that any different than TTP in principle ?
> 
> Lastly, do state institutions have a mandate to uphold sanctity or necessity of religion ?
> If it is not expressly allowed by in our constitution, then these institutions over stepped.




Did you even understand what I had written in my comment ? BTW which state institution is regulating your thought process?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

_Any _institution that tries to prevent criticism of it is trying to regulate thought processes.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sinnerman108

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> _Any _institution that tries to prevent criticism of it is trying to regulate thought processes.



I am so very surprised, and sad looking at people's views here on this forum and this thread.

Inability for logical debate ............

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

Sinnerman108 said:


> I am so very surprised, and sad looking at people's views here on this forum and this thread.
> 
> Inability for logical debate ............



We work with the forum we _have_, not the forum we _wish _we had.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Spring Onion

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> _Any _institution that tries to prevent criticism of it is trying to regulate thought processes.



does criticism include abuses ? 
but NVM can you name the institution in Pakistan which is suppressing your thought process?

BTW what about remarks on holocaust ?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> We work with the forum we _have_, not the forum we _wish _we had.


you talk about law alot, so let me ask you, when court arrests people for contempt of court is that fair? is that not against freedom of speech?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

Respect4Respect01 said:


> you talk about law alot, so let me ask you, when court arrests people for contempt of court is that fair? is that not against freedom of speech?


He will have to consult his Rabbi before he can answer you. Please wait......

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Spring Onion

Sinnerman108 said:


> I am so very surprised, and sad looking at people's views here on this forum and this thread.
> 
> Inability for logical debate ............



Please give us the mere mortals, some of your pearls of wisdom and logic after reading some of the reference images /screenshots posted by member @Respect4Respect01 has posted from Bhensa page or whatever page that is . 

If these screenshots based views are logical and thought process ?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Peaceful Civilian

People abducted them is also wrong, they should present them in courts, and do fair trial. Nobody is above than law.
Don't act like ISIS or taliban.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## The Sandman

Khafee said:


> He will have to consult his Rabbi before he can answer you. Please wait......


That was just brutal...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

Peaceful Civilian said:


> People abducted them is also wrong, they should present them in courts, and do fair trial. Nobody is above than law.



That is why the Missing Persons case before the Supreme Court was so very important. And look at how certain institutions worked to scuttle justice in that case (and including a certain mindset on PDF too). Things are only going downhill without accountability and rule of law.

https://defence.pk/threads/supreme-court-vs-army-missing-persons-case-getting-intense.289828/

https://defence.pk/threads/missing-persons-perception-and-reality.186231/

https://defence.pk/threads/sc-directs-govt-to-trace-missing-persons.38221/

https://defence.pk/threads/missing-persons-issue-more-serious-than-nro-says-judge.43424/

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

The Sandman said:


> That was just brutal...


Should I change it to "Pundit" ?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Sinnerman108

Spring Onion said:


> does criticism include abuses ?
> but NVM can you name the institution in Pakistan which is suppressing your thought process?
> 
> BTW what about remarks on holocaust ?



This will by last quotation to you in this thread.

Jesus is God's son, in Christianity
We believe Jesus is human.

Shouldn't the Christians charge us with blaspheme ?

How do you think this problem will solve ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Peaceful Civilian said:


> People abducted them is also wrong, they should present them in courts, and do fair trial. Nobody is above than law.


you are right, but we don't know if they are actually kidnapped or they are hiding somewhere, we can't just blame the institution without any proof, Salman Taseer and Gillani's kids were also kidnapped, and agencies had nothing to do with that, how can we just assume that these people were picked up by ISI?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Spring Onion

Khafee said:


> He will have to consult his Rabbi before he can answer you. Please wait......



If we question these "Activists" or "Liberals" then we are declared extremists by them if they abuse the respected Prophet of one of the largest faiths in world then it a thought process to them.

What kind of logical debate it is?



Sinnerman108 said:


> This will by last quotation to you in this thread.
> 
> Jesus is God's son, in Christianity
> We believe Jesus is *human.*
> 
> Shouldn't the Christians charge us with blaspheme ?
> 
> How do you think this problem will solve ?



Mr. Logical even Christians believe he was a HUMAN so why would they charge us with blasphemy ?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Khafee

Spring Onion said:


> If we question these "Activists" or "Liberals" then we are declared extremists by them if they abuse the respected Prophet of one of the largest faiths in world then it a thought process to them.
> 
> What kind of logical debate it is?


Not logical at all. Abuse their parents and see how long they remain quite.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Spring Onion

Khafee said:


> Not logical at all. Abuse their parents and see how long they remain quite.



lolzz they are on fire if someone is abusing these liberals so what to say about abusing their loves ones .

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Sinnerman108 said:


> This will by last quotation to you in this thread.
> 
> Jesus is God's son, in Christianity
> We believe Jesus is human.
> 
> Shouldn't the Christians charge us with blaspheme ?
> 
> How do you think this problem will solve ?


why should they charge us for blasphemy? that is their belief and they are not forcing us to accept their belief, but on the other hand the people you are supporting want to impose their views on all Pakistanis.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Spring Onion

Sinnerman108 said:


> I am so very surprised, and sad looking at people's views here on this forum and this thread.
> 
> Inability for logical debate ............



So is Pakistan the only place where "Insaniyat dam tor raha hay" ? as per this page ? BTW I wonder who is the admins of this page you have posted an image of as the Urdu grammar is bad worst than My English language skill.

Haven't you saw this same case of shooting such incidents by people and media in other countries?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

Sinnerman108 said:


> I am so very surprised, and sad looking at people's views here on this forum and this thread.



There is a reason @niaz said in his interview right here on PDF that_ "I for one can’t think of any effective cure for extremism"_ in Pakistan, and the attitudes on display on this thread are just more proof of his assessment.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Peaceful Civilian

Respect4Respect01 said:


> you are right, but we don't know if they are actually kidnapped or they are hiding somewhere, we can't just blame the institution without any proof, Salman Taseer and Gillani's kids were also kidnapped, and agencies and nothing to do with that, how can we just assume that these people were picked up by ISI?


There are also few religious motivated people present everywhere. We(Pak) supported taliban and alqaida in past ,and we called them pure people and said Real Islam will spread from there . This all proved wrong with passing time. Chaudry Nisar and team arrested secular people doing Protest against Lal masjid terrorists in 2014, but not a single arrest was made against Lal masjid terrorists that killed our 12 soldiers, they are still roaming free. hence, you can't rule out possibility of anybody involvement. Incidents like this doesn't happen anywhere in the world unless you have terrorist sympathizers.


----------



## Spring Onion

Peaceful Civilian said:


> People abducted them is also wrong, they should present them in courts, and do fair trial. Nobody is above than law.
> Don't act like ISIS or taliban.



AGREED.

The debate on this page is not endorsement of their disappearance. The debate is about difference between freedom of expression and abuses.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

Spring Onion said:


> AGREED.
> 
> *The debate on this page is not endorsement of their disappearance. The debate is about difference between freedom of expression and abuses.*



Absolutely, but it is there for everyone to see how things are misconstrued, to suit their agenda.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Sinnerman108

Respect4Respect01 said:


> why should they charge us for blasphemy? that is their belief and they are not forcing us to accept their belief, but on the other hand the people you are supporting want to impose their views on all Pakistanis.



How are those people imposing their views on Pakistanis ?

Do they hold a gun to your head, and force you to visit their pages ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Sinnerman108 said:


> How are those people imposing their views on Pakistanis ?
> 
> Do they hold a gun to your head, and force you to visit their pages ?


What else do you think they are doing? they are atheists and we have no problem with that, but they wan't to impose their views on all Pakistanis and that is the reason why they made all these pages to insult Islam and provoke Muslims. What else would they achieve from such pages ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

Sinnerman108 said:


> How are those people imposing their views on Pakistanis ?
> 
> Do they hold a gun to your head, and force you to visit their pages ?


What is the point of posting insulting and derogatory remarks? Please explain.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Sinnerman108

Respect4Respect01 said:


> What else do you think they are doing? they are atheists and we have no problem with that, but they wan't to impose their views on all Pakistanis and that is the reason why they made all these pages to insult Islam and provoke Muslims. What else would they achieve from such pages ?



Answer the question.

@Khafee and respect

Did they force you to visit their page ?

and if you found their page to be offensive, why didn't you block it ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Sinnerman108 said:


> Answer the question.
> 
> Did they force you to visit their page ?
> 
> and if you found their page to be offensive, why didn't you block it ?


Okay that is very illogical, 
if i abuse your parents right now, then ask you why you read my comment and say that you should have ignored it.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

Sinnerman108 said:


> Answer the question.
> 
> @Khafee and respect
> 
> Did they force you to visit their page ?
> 
> and if you found their page to be offensive, why didn't you block it ?


You didn't answer the question, "what is the point of posting insulting and derogatory remarks." ?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Spring Onion

Sinnerman108 said:


> How are those people imposing their views on Pakistanis ?
> 
> Do they hold a gun to your head, and force you to visit their pages ?



I don't mind if they even try to impose their views provided if they have any views and not abuses. Using uncivilized language does not count as thought process.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Peaceful Civilian

Spring Onion said:


> AGREED.
> 
> The debate on this page is not endorsement of their disappearance. The debate is about difference between freedom of expression and abuses.


 That's why I said nobody is above than law, You just can't take law in your hand even after abuse in twitter , intolerance is increasing after Salman taser incident. If one is extremist , other becomes real terrorist like ISIS/houthis against opponent.


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Spring Onion said:


> I don't mind if they even try to impose their views provided if they have any views and not abuses. Using uncivilized language does not count as thought process.


they have the right to express their views, but they don't have the right to abuse our beliefs.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Spring Onion

Khafee said:


> You didn't answer the question, "what is the point of posting insulting and derogatory remarks." ?


For inciting violence or hatred. What else.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Sinnerman108

Respect4Respect01 said:


> they have the right to express their views, but they don't have the right to abuse our beliefs.



You see, that is as close to the point as you have managed to come

@Khafee and @Spring Onion

Your belief, or my belief, is just that.
It is Mine and lives and dies with me.

Similarly, someone else's belief is their business and lives and dies with them.

There are thousands of pages that incite violence, why didn't the state take action against them ?

When you make an account on face book you as an individual accept their terms and conditions.

Please read the terms and conditions about community standards, and the process to deal with unwanted material.

Now, be honest, delete your accounts if you don't agree with the policy.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Sinnerman108 said:


> You see, that is as close to the point as you have managed to come
> 
> @Khafee and @Spring Onion
> 
> Your belief, or my belief, is just that.
> It is Mine and lives and dies with me.
> 
> Similarly, someone else's belief is their business and lives and dies with them.
> 
> There are thousands of pages that incite violence, why didn't the state take action against them ?
> 
> When you make an account on face book you as an individual accept their terms and conditions.
> 
> *Please read the terms and conditions about community standards, and the process to deal with unwanted material.*
> 
> Now, be honest, delete your accounts if you don't agree with the policy.


you don't have any arguments left to counter mine, and now you are getting into technicalities. But take a look at this below.

"Content that attacks people based on their actual or perceived* race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sex, gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, disability or disease is not allowed*. We do, however, allow clear attempts at humor or satire that might otherwise be considered a possible threat or attack. This includes content that many people may find to be in bad taste (ex: jokes, stand-up comedy, popular song lyrics, etc.).
For information about our policies please review the Facebook Community Standards"

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

Sinnerman108 said:


> You see, that is as close to the point as you have managed to come
> 
> @Khafee and @Spring Onion
> 
> Your belief, or my belief, is just that.
> It is Mine and lives and dies with me.
> 
> Similarly, someone else's belief is their business and lives and dies with them.
> 
> When you make an account on face book you as an individual accept their terms and conditions.
> 
> Please read the terms and conditions about community standards, and the process to deal with unwanted material.
> 
> Now, be honest, delete your accounts if you don't agree with the policy.



Very weak comeback. 
You still didn't answer the question "why post insulting and derogatory remarks?"

Besides, this is not about "belief," This is about insulting someone. What gives you the right to insult someone who other consider sanctimonious?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Sinnerman108

Today you are supporting this.

Fine.

Tomorrow, you will pay for this.

Wait till local molvi or ISIS teach you the lesson.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Spring Onion

Sinnerman108 said:


> USER=172631]@Khafee[/USER] and @Spring Onion
> 
> Your belief, or my belief, is just that.
> It is Mine and lives and dies with me.
> 
> Similarly, someone else's belief is their business and lives and dies with them.



Agreed. Where we are disagreeing with their right to have their belief ? as long as they do not abuse ours .




> There are thousands of pages that incite violence, why didn't the state take action against them ?



The state should. BTW the State did not take action even against bhensa. 



> When you make an account on face book you as an individual accept their terms and conditions.
> 
> Please read the terms and conditions about community standards, and the process to deal with unwanted material.
> 
> Now, be honest, delete your accounts if you don't agree with the policy.



I am not much into it so I may not know about their terms and conditions but can you tell me if hate speech, offensive pages are not dealt with by FB under terms and conditions?

if yes then why one should delete his or her account as long as it is not about life threats to that individual.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Sinnerman108

Khafee said:


> Very weak comeback.
> You still didn't answer the question "why post insulting and derogatory remarks?"
> 
> Besides, this is not about "belief," This is about insulting someone. What gives you the right to insult someone who other consider sanctimonious?



Unfortunately, my response is limited not because of my incapability.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Peaceful Civilian

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> There is a reason @niaz said in his interview right here on PDF that_ "I for one can’t think of any effective cure for extremism"_ in Pakistan, and the attitudes on display on this thread are just more proof of his assessment.


All gifts from Bhutto and zia ul haq. It will take time , maybe our next generations to eliminate cancer of extremism.


----------



## Spring Onion

Sinnerman108 said:


> Unfortunately, my response is limited not because of my incapability.



We can understand. Can you reply in just one word or one line if you support abusing Islam or any religion as freedom of expression?

Yes or NO?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Sinnerman108 said:


> Unfortunately, my response is limited not because of my incapability.


hate speech and abuse is discouraged by Facebook...where does it say that you Must tolerate hate speech?

"Content that attacks people based on their actual or perceived* race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sex, gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, disability or disease is not allowed*."

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Spring Onion

Peaceful Civilian said:


> All gifts from Bhutto and zia ul haq. It will take time , maybe our next generations to eliminate cancer of extremism.



Stupid blame since many of us including me did not see Bhutto or Zia era neither we were subjected to their orders or decrees still we do NOT see any reason for supporting insult to our faith and Prophet (PBUH).

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Sinnerman108

Spring Onion said:


> We can understand. Can you reply in just one word or one line if you support abusing Islam or any religion as freedom of expression?
> 
> Yes or NO?



I will answer that, 
NO.

Now you answer me,

Explain to me who were you to ask me that question ?


----------



## Peaceful Civilian

Spring Onion said:


> Stupid blame since many of us including me did not see Bhutto or Zia era neither we were subjected to their orders or decrees still we do NOT see any reason for supporting insult to our faith and Prophet (PBUH).


Nobody should insult other religion, just report it , but don't take law in hand. You blocked YouTube and Facebook, but you can't live without using it. You pressurized government to open it again, hence you too have to live with their terms, conditions & decision otherwise you are welcome to delete account, but you won't 
What a hypocrisy.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Peaceful Civilian said:


> All gifts from Bhutto and zia ul haq. It will take time , maybe our next generations to eliminate cancer of extremism.


everybody has a different definition of "extremist". Some people consider Bush and Tony blair to be extremists and war criminals, some people believe that Trump is an extremist or Obama for dropping 26000 bombs in 2016 on 7 countries, according to Jewish people Hitler was a extremist.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Spring Onion

Sinnerman108 said:


> I will answer that,
> NO.
> 
> Now you answer me,
> 
> Explain to me who were you to ask me that question ?



On a public forum when you are engaged in a public debate about a topic dealing with the faith of billions of people, you do not need a certificate of identification to ask that question which I asked you.

In simple words if you do not have stomach to absorb such simple innocent questions then who gave you the right to lecture us about tolerating the abusive views of these kattas i mean behnsas



Peaceful Civilian said:


> *Nobody should insult other religion, just report it , but don't take law in hand.* You blocked YouTube and Facebook, but you can't live without using it. You pressurized government to open it again, hence you too have to live with their terms, conditions & decision otherwise you are welcome to delete account, but you won't
> What a hypocrisy.




For the bold part = agreed.

For the rest of your post their terms and conditions do not include use of abuse or inciting violence. Still if these are included then the state can take action as per law and situation.

You cannot fight the wrongdoing by closing your eyes or leaving the field free for idiots so why delete ?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Sinnerman108

Spring Onion said:


> On a public forum when you are engaged in a public debate about a topic dealing with the faith of billions of people, you do not need a certificate of identification to ask that question which I asked you.
> 
> In simple words if you do not have stomach to absorb such simple innocent questions then who gave you the right to lecture us about tolerating the abusive views of these kattas i mean behnsas




As I said.

Fine.

Today, everything is fine.

But we have made tomorrow bleak.

Oh Rushd ... what did they do to your son ...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

@haviZsultan See the post below. These are the sick ba$tards you were defending. Says a lot about who and what you are. 



Respect4Respect01 said:


> Here i found some screenshots for you to see bro.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Sinnerman108

Khafee said:


> @haviZsultan See the post below. These are the sick ba$tards you were defending. Says a lot about who and what you are.



Please, we are not defending them.

Get that clear in your head.

We are only trying to tell you, that the process of dealing with them was wrong.

And such precedence will cause problems in future.

The government of Pakistan has an agreement with Facebook to ask for certain pages be blocked or removed in Pakistan.

The government could have exercised that option.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

Sinnerman108 said:


> As I said.
> 
> Fine.
> 
> Today, everything is fine.
> 
> But we have made tomorrow bleak.
> 
> Oh Rushd ... what did they do to you ...



You are beating a dead horse. Having a difference of opinion is one thing, abusing and insulting someones religious figures is NOT.

But as per you, by not allowing someone to abuse religious figures "*future is bleak"* are you just dumb, or high on something?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Khafee said:


> @haviZsultan See the post below. These are the sick ba$tards you were defending. Says a lot about who and what you are.


people should read the thread before jumping in to defend these people, in this case these activists are wrong and there is no way you can defend what they have done. We are also against their "disappearances" and believe that they should be presented in front of the court and punished according to the law. But honestly we also don't have proof that they were kidnapped, they might be hiding somewhere so the moombati mafia can cause chaos.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

Sinnerman108 said:


> Please, we are not defending them.
> 
> Get that clear in your head.
> 
> We are only trying to tell you, that the process of dealing with them was wrong.
> 
> And such precedence will cause problems in future.


We are NOT discussing the process, what part of that didn't you understand? 
We are talking about insults and derogatory remarks? 

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Musafir117

Spring Onion said:


> AGREED.
> 
> The debate on this page is not endorsement of their disappearance. The debate is about difference between freedom of expression and abuses.


I think we mixing different issues which creating more mis understanding. First of all no body defending bhensa's acts here. Now tell me what's wrong if I think that I want to know is Suleman Haider is bhensa actually or bhensa part II is actual bhensa Part I whose page taken over. What wrong in me if I am demanding a free trial for all who insult Islam and defame Pakistan and our religion and punish them as we laws both as per blasphemy or treason. 
Now go back to starting pages there were no Liberal or libturd whatever you call them who were blaming military or its institute but Specialy a right winger Zarvan and few Army fan boys who were thumping there chests that ISI or our BOYS picked them and they are their guest now. last but not least if we throw a stone in a dirty filthy mud we might be get few filthy drops back The point better don't throw the stone avoid it as in Quran clearly said in Sura Al Inaam leave that type of gathering where blasphemy being committing. And there are great wisdom behind in all advises given by Almighty Allah. 
Now my this para is for a military professional YOU stop people calling name and threatening them @WebMaster.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Spring Onion

Sinnerman108 said:


> As I said.
> 
> Fine.
> 
> Today, everything is fine.
> 
> But we have made tomorrow bleak.
> 
> Oh Rushd ... what did they do to you ...



You are confused yourself or not clear. On the one hand you say you do not support insult to religion on the other hand you are giving verdict in favor of it.

PLEASE read carefully and with an open mind some of us including me here on this forum are supporter of a middle path that is MODERATE path where we disagree with use of abusive language both by liberals and conservatives for any religion.



If you consider abusing our religion as freedom of speech then you should not be offended if others call names to such abusers, by exercising freedom of speech.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Khafee

Musafir117 said:


> I think we mixing different issues which creating more mis understanding. First of all no body defending bhensa's acts here. Now tell me what's wrong if I think that I want to know is Suleman Haider is bhensa actually or bhensa part II is actual bhensa Part I whose page taken over. What wrong in me if I am demanding a free trial for all who insult Islam and defame Pakistan and our religion and punish them as we laws both as per blasphemy or treason.
> Now go back to starting pages there were no Liberal or libturd whatever you call them who were blaming military or its institute but Specialy a right winger Zarvan and few Army fan boys who were thumping there chests that ISI or our BOYS picked them and they are their guest now. last but not least if we throw a stone in a dirty filthy mud we might be get few filthy drops back The point better don't throw the stone avoid it as in Quran clearly said in Sura Al Inaam leave that type of gathering where blasphemy being committing. And there are great wisdom behind in all advises given by Almighty Allah.
> Now my this para is for a military professional YOU stop people calling name and threatening them @WebMaster.



Please Mr..Ahmedi, we don't need you jumping in here are creating more issues for your community, keep your silly opinions out of this thread.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Spring Onion

Musafir117 said:


> I think we mixing different issues which creating more mis understanding. First of all no body defending bhensa's acts here. Now tell me what's wrong if I think that I want to know is Suleman Haider is bhensa actually or bhensa part II is actual bhensa Part I whose page taken over. What wrong in me if I am demanding a free trial for all who insult Islam and defame Pakistan and our religion and punish them as we laws both as per blasphemy or treason.
> Now go back to starting pages there were no Liberal or libturd whatever you call them who were blaming military or its institute but Specialy a right winger Zarvan and few Army fan boys who were thumping there chests that ISI or our BOYS picked them and they are their guest now. last but not least if we throw a stone in a dirty filthy mud we might be get few filthy drops back The point better don't throw the stone avoid it as in Quran clearly said in Sura Al Inaam leave that type of gathering where blasphemy being committing. And there are great wisdom behind in all advises given by Almighty Allah.
> Now my this para is for a military professional YOU stop people calling name and threatening them @WebMaster.



Indeed We (everybody) here are mixing different issues that is the issue .

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

Peaceful Civilian said:


> There are many porrn sites, will you open account to fight them for wrong doings, You want to act like Molvi or police to take charge which is not your job. Same things happened for with Bollywood & India dramas in Pakistan, watch it daily, and then criticize it, fight with government but don't change channel while " Saas Bahu" drama time on tv. ​


You are misquoting me - A forum rule violation, want to correct it, or want me to report it?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Spring Onion

Peaceful Civilian said:


> There are many porrn sites, will you open account to fight them for wrong doings, You want to act like Molvi or police to take charge which is not your job. Same things happened for with Bollywood & India dramas in Pakistan, watch it daily, and then criticize it, fight with government but don't change channel while " Saas Bahu" drama time on tv. ​



What kind of an argument it is? Because nobody open account to fight bhensa type or **** sites or content rather majority open social media accounts to follow their interests now if they come across any site which is offensive to then then they report instead of deleting the account. Why should they delete the account? 

As far as the case of Indian contents or for that matter even **** content the reality is those who are opposed to it they do not watch it. At my home some used to watch Indian dramas others like me who do not so I used to switch the channel it is a reality.

The government bows to the business community or business mafias otherwise India has imposed the curfew on our contents.

It is pretty funny that people like you do not open your mouth when Indian government or for that matter any other country ban Pakistani media or such material but when our government does so you guys behave as if you are banned.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

Peaceful Civilian said:


> I quoted spring union. But don't know how I quoted you. It is mistake, but think he understand simple point.


So you are asking a Lady about P0RN sites. ARE YOU MAD?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Musafir117 said:


> Next time quote me you feel shame molvi so better avoid me or don't make me break my record to put a MP on ignore @WebMaster control your asset please


what is your problem with "Molvis"? you know who or what Maulvi actually is?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Peaceful Civilian

Spring Onion said:


> It is pretty funny that people like you do not open your mouth when Indian government or for that matter any other country ban Pakistani media or such material but when our government does so you guys behave as if you are banned.


I criticized them when India didn't welcome our actors . They are just cry babies, but we should not ban Indian channels because majority Pakistani like it even many love their Muslim Bollywood heros like shahRuth khan, Amir khan. Etc . These days our cinemas are empty after We banned Bollywood. I know some extremists even asking to ban geo news, dawn news and other channels including entertainments one. They just want to impose views on others . Truth is bitter. 
I was first which criticized ban on Facebook and everybody was jumping against me, but I rightly said we have to walk with world. World is not like that what you thinks. For example This is age of computer, Israeli invented wireless keyboards, medicines, , you have to walk with world.


----------



## Musafir117

Respect4Respect01 said:


> what is your problem with "Molvis"? you know who or what Maulvi actually is?


You mean difference between a good molvi and a bad molvi? And yes I have a great problem with jahil molvies who don't know the real teaching of Islam and spreading fitna wo fasad and blood shedding of inocients on name of Islam and same goes liked to Bhensa 1 or 2 their last destination will be hell for sure.


----------



## VCheng

Sinnerman108 said:


> How are those people imposing their views on Pakistanis ?
> 
> Do they hold a gun to your head, and force you to visit their pages ?



Visiting such FB pages is a _voluntary _activity. The problem only arises when the radicalized brigades take it upon themselves to tell _others _what they can or cannot say. Within Pakistan, such content may be outlawed, but internationally, and specially out on the Internet, it simply cannot be done in any effective manner. The only solution is to put forward one's own preferred points of view in a _better _manner.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Visiting such FB pages is a _voluntary _activity. The problem only arises when the radicalized brigades take it upon themselves to tell _others _what they can or cannot say. Within Pakistan, such content may be outlawed, but internationally, and specially out on the Internet, it simply cannot be done in any effective manner. The only solution is to put forward one's own preferred points of view in a _better _manner.



Such FB pages are against FB rules as well, hence illegal, any which way you look at it!

"Content that attacks people based on their actual or perceived* race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sex, gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, disability or disease is not allowed*. We do, however, allow clear attempts at humor or satire that might otherwise be considered a possible threat or attack. This includes content that many people may find to be in bad taste (ex: jokes, stand-up comedy, popular song lyrics, etc.).
For information about our policies please review the Facebook Community Standards"

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

Peaceful Civilian said:


> All gifts from Bhutto and zia ul haq. It will take time , maybe our next generations to eliminate cancer of extremism.



They may have planted the seeds, but _many _have nurtured it into the florid result we have today. The next generations are far more likely to self-destruct than to rectify this situation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> They may have planted the seeds, but _many _have nurtured it into the florid result we have today. *The next generations are far more likely to self-destruct than to rectify this situation.*



The voices in your head are pretty strong, is there more? Or is this from your Rabbi?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Musafir117 said:


> You mean difference between a good molvi and a bad molvi? And yes I have a great problem with jahil molvies who don't know the real teaching of Islam and spreading fitna wo fasad and blood shedding of inocients on name of Islam and same goes liked to Bhensa 1 or 2 their last destination will be hell for sure.


I always thought Humans were good or bad. You don't have to be a Maulvi to be a bad person, that is like saying that there are only bad people amongst Pandits or Priests.



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Visiting such FB pages is a _voluntary _activity. The problem only arises when the radicalized brigades take it upon themselves to tell _others _what they can or cannot say. Within Pakistan, such content may be outlawed, but internationally, and specially out on the Internet, it simply cannot be done in any effective manner. The only solution is to put forward one's own preferred points of view in a _better _manner.


stop with your double standards, if raising questions against holocaust can be banned in some countries then why not in Pakistan?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

Pakistan is entitled to enforce any laws upon its own citizens and within its own jurisdiction, of course. Then it must follow whats its own laws say to establish rule of law.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Pakistan is entitled to enforce any laws upon its own citizens and within its own jurisdiction, of course. Then it must follow whats its own laws say to establish rule of law.


If that is the case, then blasphemy law is already in Pakistani constitution, then why are you defending people who are provoking Muslims and breaking the law.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

For the umpteenth time, I am only defending the rule of law and nothing else. If blasphemy law applies here, then why has Pakistan's Interior Minister said that these five have no charges pending against them?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> For the umpteenth time, I am only defending the rule of law and nothing else. If blasphemy law applies here, then why has Pakistan's Interior Minister said that these five have no charges pending against them?


he is afraid because he knows moombati mafia is going to attack him, plus we all know Pakistani weak and corrupt government is afraid of western pressure. They will never register any cases against them.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Peaceful Civilian

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> They may have planted the seeds, but _many _have nurtured it into the florid result we have today. The next generations are far more likely to self-destruct than to rectify this situation.


Look what erdogan has done to beautiful country turkey , it is burning due to wrong policies. Peace is looking difficult under AKP party. Dictator Erdogan is busy arresting people commenting on twitter & Facebook just to revenge opponents instead of dealing extremism & terrorism. They again need secular leader like mustafa Kemal attaturk but damage is done and it will take decade to settle & stabilize country. Attacks on night clubs , suicide attacks on peaceful protests & others will continue . AKP Has soft stance on militants like we have terrorist sympathizers. Some people really don't use brain, such narrow minded people has to suffer. Feeding snakes, and expecting them to guard you.
About Pakistan I think things will change in future, but it will take some decades.Secularism has to make place , and will, extremism will go to gutter. Our new generation loves songs, loves singing, dancing in school, prefers science & want to learn , more open than previous decade time. Better time coming ahead! More international school should invest in Pakistan and give modern education. Media will play key role in this. Gone are days when you ask/force news anchors, journalists for dupatta. We will become more open society, if one takes burka on news channel, other will not criticize it, if other don't wear hijab/dupatta, other has nothing to do in her business.
Time is changing slowly.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## VCheng

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Look what erdogan has done to beautiful country turkey , it is burning due to wrong policies. Peace is looking difficult under AKP party. Dictator Erdogan is busy arresting people commenting on twitter & Facebook just to revenge opponents instead of dealing extremism & terrorism. They again need secular leader like mustafa Kemal attaturk but damage is done and it will take decade to settle & stabilize country. Attacks on night clubs , suicide attacks on peaceful protests & others will continue . AKP Has soft stance on militants like we have terrorist sympathizers. Some people really don't use brain, such narrow minded people has to suffer. Feeding snakes, and expecting them to guard you.
> About Pakistan I think things will change in future, but it will take some decades.Secularism has to make place , and will, extremism will go to gutter. Our new generation loves songs, loves singing, dancing in school, prefers science & want to learn , more open than previous decade time. Better time coming ahead! More international school should invest in Pakistan and give modern education. Media will play key role in this. Gone are days when you ask/force news anchors, journalists for dupatta. We will become more open society, if one takes burka on news channel, other will not criticize it, if other don't wear hijab/dupatta, other has nothing to do in her business.
> Time is changing slowly.



I will leave your optimism intact, without agreeing with it. What is happening in Turkey will soon come to Pakistan.


----------



## django

The Sandman said:


> so instead of countering me with facts and logic you're threatening me with this really? i didn't committed any blasphemy so what are you gonna tell police?
> 
> oh really than let me tag all of them and lets expose your dirty extremist nature.
> @Khafee @django @Hell hound @Mentee
> @Zibago @Zaki @Moonlight @RealNapster


Bro you are a patriotic Pakistani and no one should question your patriotism or Aqeedah. Kudos

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## M. Sarmad

Psychic said:


> *Hate speech is a fitnah* whether the perpetrator of it is a sectarian extremist or an atheist extremist. Churning out such content on a daily basis invites the likes of mumtaz Qadri to take the law into their own hands since the 'state' appears helpless in front of their vitriol.



The Holy Quran prescribes severe punishment for spreading "Al-Fitnah" or "Al-Fasaad" on Allah's land (5:33). Allah tells us that _Fitnah is worse than killing_ (2:191) ...... FITNAH means _unrest or rebellion, especially against a rightful ruler_. and FASAD means spreading mischief in a Muslim land, creating disorder in the Muslim community, or a revolution or war against a just government/establishment, or other similar things..


As for hate speech/blasphemy, the Holy Quran does not prescribe any worldly punishment for this offense. Quite the contrary, Allah tells us to ignore and avoid blasphemers, and leave it to Allah almighty to decide their fate (9:74, 4:140, 28:55, 7:199)


So, as per the Holy Quran, hate speech/blasphemy is not "Fitnah/Fasad"(_Fasad_ is a crime punishable by death)...


In fact, the Holy Quran does not prescribe any worldly punishment for _religious offenses _(Blasphemy, Apostasy etc.)_ .... _The Holy Quran prescribes worldly punishments only for worldly crimes (Murder, Theft, Fasad etc.) ... It's really that simple




And Pakistan law includes the principle of fasad-fil-arz (mischief on earth) ... Let the courts decide whether or not the _alleged_ _criminals_ committed "fasad-fil-arz" .... Section 311, Pakistan Penal Code:

http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/legislation/1860/actXLVof1860.html#123


----------



## VCheng

Facebook says:



> "Content that attacks people based on their actual or perceived* race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sex, gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, disability or disease is not allowed*. We do, however, allow clear attempts at humor or satire that might otherwise be considered a possible threat or attack. This includes content that many people may find to be in bad taste (ex: jokes, stand-up comedy, popular song lyrics, etc.).
> For information about our policies please review the Facebook Community Standards"



And yet they allowed all the pages freely on their private website. That alone shows that the content some have found objectionable was not in violation of their stated policies.

And before somebody says that it is mischief on FB's part, that is just as pathetic an excuse as saying the Interior Minister of the world's only Muslim nuclear power is too afraid to implement the applicable laws within their own self-proclaimed Castle of Islam. Clearly, the State of Pakistan is much stronger than that.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nilgiri

Peaceful Civilian said:


> More international school should invest in Pakistan and give modern education.



The thing is there is massive govt legislation and control of education sector. Anyone trying to start a school has to pay off the right thugs, grease all the right hands, be prepared to meet the expense from all the delays after starting such a thing and make it impossible to do more than just a one-off project (because govt prevents it from being chartered/franchised/expandable/scaleable easily). Basically any competitor to public schooling is prevented in any significant relevant amount (for mass quality education at lowest cost possible).

Its a problem in India and South Asia too generally....I am diligently gathering resources and information about it in India's case so I can attempt at least one quality school later in life when I have more time while also hoping the situation becomes easier to do so in future too.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> The thing is there is massive govt legislation and control of education sector. Anyone trying to start a school has to pay off the right thugs, grease all the right hands, be prepared to meet the expense from all the delays after starting such a thing and make it impossible to do more than just a one-off project (because govt prevents it from being chartered/franchised/expandable/scaleable easily). Basically any competitor to public schooling is prevented in any significant relevant amount (for mass quality education at lowest cost possible).



Until somebody orders everyone to leave within three days, effectively shutting down a whole school system working well, such as what happened to the Turkish schools in Pakistan.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## war&peace

haviZsultan said:


> The site is for debate. In every situation there will be people you agree with and disagree with. I will try to avoid qouting you in the future since you like to threaten instead of debate even though I agreed with a lot of what you said. It shows the belief that "you don't agree with me you are wajibul qatal" which is behind the behavior against these bhensa people. I don't see them committing blasphemy here. Its more about our small, easily hurt egos.
> 
> The exact thing that is all wrong with Pakistan today. We need to sit together, accept each others views and debate.



Sir,
You might have heard "your liberty to swing your fist ends just where my nose starts"... and this site PDF also is not totally unbridled and uncontrolled forum where anyone can say or post anything..there are rules on this very forum and being a title holder, I think you know more than me. If anyone starts insulting and abusing others on this forum, should we just ignore rather appreciate and support that person under the pretext of freedom of speech? In every country there are rules against blasphemy and even disagreement from official account of some event

Blasphemy laws in England, Scotland and Ireland (even punishable by death) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_the_United_Kingdom#Abolition
Law against holocaust denial in most of the European countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial
I think two examples are sufficient .... now you said they did not commit blasphemy...who are you to determine whether they committed blasphemy or not?... some anonymous title-holder on pdf that's it... The blasphemy has been well defined in the Holy Quran and Hadeeth and we go by that definition and damn whether the liberal-fascists like it or not ... I mean they are such hypocrites that if we say the same thing about their parents and family members, they will be running after us with guns ....
Bhensa admins committed blasphemy and they have to be punished as per the rules of shariah and Pakistan period.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Nilgiri

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Until somebody orders everyone to leave within three days, effectively shutting down a whole school system working well, such as what happened to the Turkish schools in Pakistan.



Yup actions like that would definitely deter many of those potentially wanting to invest into education in Pakistan.

Retroactive ban like that is very bad thing to do for any business, but especially in education where the margins are razor thin because govt has 99%+ control and ability to suffocate and stifle as required in the first place.

What are the details of this action anyway? Was the Turk schooling system you speak of allowed to challenge/appeal in court, at least to recuperate some of its asset money by liquidating etc? Were they all owned by one consortium or were they all independent of each other?


----------



## VCheng

Nilgiri said:


> Yup actions like that would definitely deter many of those potentially wanting to invest into education in Pakistan.
> 
> Retroactive ban like that is very bad thing to do for any business, but especially in education where the margins are razor thin because govt has 99%+ control and ability to suffocate and stifle as required in the first place.
> 
> What are the details of this action anyway? Was the Turk schooling system you speak of allowed to challenge/appeal in court, at least to recuperate some of its asset money by liquidating etc? Were they all owned by one consortium or were they all independent of each other?



That discussion belongs in a different thread altogether, lest I be punished for going off topic, or for responding to the many personal attacks against me being made by title holders.

Back to the topic, why is FB not removing the new Bhensa page?

=================

Edit: Spelling mistake corrected.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## HAIDER

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> For the umpteenth time, I am only defending the rule of law and nothing else. If blasphemy law applies here, then why has Pakistan's Interior Minister said that these five have no charges pending against them?


I think its almost 900th response .....people fail to understand the question,,where is writ of the state. Instead they keep on hitting the person ......isn t it a tragedy ....... the answer is : Yes Govt Of Pakistan and intelligence agencies are two parallel powers. Unfortunately , agencies are beyond the control of GOP. That s what Nawaz Shareef cry all day and nite. No one is against blasphemy law, but the final authority should be superior courts of Pakistan, not the mobs.


----------



## Khafee

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> That discussion belongs in a different thread altogether, lest I be punished for going off topic, or for responding to the many personal attacks against me being made* by tit holders.*
> 
> Back to the topic, why is FB not removing the new Bhensa page?


@Horus Please tell this Bhensa supporter to stop being stupid and sexist.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

Azlan Haider said:


> The Holy Quran prescribes severe punishment for spreading "Al-Fitnah" or "Al-Fasaad" on Allah's land (5:33). Allah tells us that _Fitnah is worse than killing_ (2:191) ...... FITNAH means _unrest or rebellion, especially against a rightful ruler_. and FASAD means spreading mischief in a Muslim land, creating disorder in the Muslim community, or a revolution or war against a just government/establishment, or other similar things..
> 
> 
> As for hate speech/blasphemy, the Holy Quran does not prescribe any worldly punishment for this offense. Quite the contrary, Allah tells us to ignore and avoid blasphemers, and leave it to Allah almighty to decide their fate (9:74, 4:140, 28:55, 7:199)
> 
> 
> So, as per the Holy Quran, hate speech/blasphemy is not "Fitnah/Fasad"(_Fasad_ is a crime punishable by death)...
> 
> 
> In fact, the Holy Quran does not prescribe any worldly punishment for _religious offenses _(Blasphemy, Apostasy etc.)_ .... _The Holy Quran prescribes worldly punishments only for worldly crimes (Murder, Theft, Fasad etc.) ... It's really that simple
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Pakistan law includes the principle of fasad-fil-arz (mischief on earth) ... Let the courts decide whether or not the _alleged_ _criminals_ committed "fasad-fil-arz" .... Section 311, Pakistan Penal Code:
> 
> http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/legislation/1860/actXLVof1860.html#123


@Zarvan @Naif al Hilali you two are more learned, and I would like your views on the above post.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## I.R.A

Azlan Haider said:


> In fact, the Holy Quran does not prescribe any worldly punishment for _religious offenses _(Blasphemy, Apostasy etc.)_ .... _The Holy Quran prescribes worldly punishments only for worldly crimes (Murder, Theft, Fasad etc.) ... It's really that simple




Then why Hazrat Khizar (Peace be upon him) had to kill that young boy?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

So many days and still no idea where they might be?


http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=55943#.WIdWslMrLAT

*Pakistan: UN expert calls for return of four disappeared human rights and social media activists*



Special Rapporteur on the promotion and protection of the right to freedom of opinion and expression David Kaye. UN Photo/Jean-Marc Ferré


11 January 2017 – *A United Nations human rights expert today called on the Pakistani authorities to make it a top priority to locate, protect and return home four disappeared human rights and social media campaigners.*

“I strongly urge the Government of Pakistan to take every step possible to locate the four missing activists, a first step toward reemphasizing its commitment to freedom of expression at the beginning of the year,” said David Kaye, the UN Special Rapporteur on the right to freedom of expression, in a news release from the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR).

According to the news release, the four men –Waqas Goraya, Asim Saeed, Salman Haider and Ahmed Raza Naseer – went missing between 4 and 7 January. Mainstream media outlets had accused them of promoting blasphemy, a criminal offense in Pakistan.

“Free expression campaigners and experts have long called for the abolition of criminal blasphemy provisions in Pakistan, which may carry the death penalty,” Mr. Kaye noted. “Not only are such laws incompatible with international human rights law, but they also facilitate threats by state and non-state actors seeking to target expression.”

The Special Rapporteur stressed that “all States have an obligation to promote a diverse space and culture for expression, but such culture does not create itself.”

Special Rapporteurs and independent experts are appointed by the Geneva-based UN Human Rights Council to examine and report back on a specific human rights theme or a country situation. The positions are honorary and the experts are not UN staff, nor are they paid for their work.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## haviZsultan

This debate is a sad reminder of the fault lines in Pakistani society with some not even attempting to be tolerant. As I said no one liberal here is saying even once that hurting someones sentiments purposely is wrong. @Respect4Respect01 I have gone through the post and noted your point. This kind of abuse against Islam or any other religion should not occur and it is the job of authorities to stop them in order for vigilantes not taking the step themselves.

1 But the questions are what defines the dark areas of what is acceptable and what is hate speech or hurting the sentiments of the majority? To the Taliban questioning suicide bombing is wrong. To a JI mullah or some here having a beard for men is a must and denying it is wrong. Everyone defines crimes against religion in their own ways. And its a tricky problem in my eyes.@Sinnerman108 is simply saying the same thing.

2 What is the better way for muslims to behave vis a vis perceived blasphemy? Call for a cutting of heads or staying even-keeled and working to express their beliefs in open debate? Would it be better for Islam to win an opponent over or kill them? Winning over someone in my eyes is superior to murdering a blasphemer. According to the Quran and Hadith converting someone is a very good thing. And conversion isn't done by force, it is done with love, respect and understanding.

3 If attacking Islam is bad what about the rubbish that escapes the mullahs mouths about Ahmedis Hindus and Christians. Blasphemy or religious abuse of their figures and prophets/idols is far more common in Pakistan and I have witnessed it. The proponents of stopping blasphemy against Islam do not even stop to wonder at this point with @Khafee directly calling @Musafir117 Ahmedi and dismissing his views because he may be from another religion. How can we even attempt to solve this problem, brother Khafee. Amendments to the blasphemy law, if not the scrapping of the law as emotional conservative clap trap must be accepted. A rule shouldn't be made that supports only one religion. This reminds me of Indians mindless stand on the beef ban. Why should a minority have to suffer?



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> So many days and still no idea where they might be?
> 
> 
> http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=55943#.WIdWslMrLAT
> 
> *Pakistan: UN expert calls for return of four disappeared human rights and social media activists*
> 
> 
> 
> Special Rapporteur on the promotion and protection of the right to freedom of opinion and expression David Kaye. UN Photo/Jean-Marc Ferré
> 
> 
> 11 January 2017 – *A United Nations human rights expert today called on the Pakistani authorities to make it a top priority to locate, protect and return home four disappeared human rights and social media campaigners.*
> 
> “I strongly urge the Government of Pakistan to take every step possible to locate the four missing activists, a first step toward reemphasizing its commitment to freedom of expression at the beginning of the year,” said David Kaye, the UN Special Rapporteur on the right to freedom of expression, in a news release from the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR).
> 
> According to the news release, the four men –Waqas Goraya, Asim Saeed, Salman Haider and Ahmed Raza Naseer – went missing between 4 and 7 January. Mainstream media outlets had accused them of promoting blasphemy, a criminal offense in Pakistan.
> 
> “Free expression campaigners and experts have long called for the abolition of criminal blasphemy provisions in Pakistan, which may carry the death penalty,” Mr. Kaye noted. “Not only are such laws incompatible with international human rights law, but they also facilitate threats by state and non-state actors seeking to target expression.”
> 
> The Special Rapporteur stressed that “all States have an obligation to promote a diverse space and culture for expression, but such culture does not create itself.”
> 
> Special Rapporteurs and independent experts are appointed by the Geneva-based UN Human Rights Council to examine and report back on a specific human rights theme or a country situation. The positions are honorary and the experts are not UN staff, nor are they paid for their work.


The same army being blamed for this senseless kidnapping traced and captured the abductors of Shahbaz Taseer. This is done by terrorists. I cannot believe even for a second that the secular and Ahmedi officers of the FIA/ISI who protected me and my people and have died for serving the country could for a second think of kidnapping activists because of opposing views.

But I agree that Pakistani society has not evolved to that point where extremely critical type of debate on religious doctrines and thinking can be allowed. People who have hurt the feelings of the majority should be dealt with by the judges, if not to provoke the brainless mullahs into (more) senseless violence.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

haviZsultan said:


> The same army being blamed for this senseless kidnapping traced and captured the abductors of Shahbaz Taseer. This is done by terrorists. I cannot believe even for a second that the secular and Ahmedi officers of the FIA/ISI who protected me and my people and have died for serving the country could for a second think of kidnapping activists because of opposing views.
> 
> But I agree that Pakistani society has not evolved to that point where extremely critical type of debate on religious doctrines and thinking can be allowed. People who have hurt the feelings of the majority should be dealt with by the judges, if not to provoke the brainless mullahs into (more) senseless violence.



Who has abducted these people, and why, are the first questions that need answers, and urgently.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

Excerpted from:

https://warontherocks.com/2017/01/pakistans-unending-war-on-civil-society/

*(Please note that it has not be proven that Pakistan's security agencies took these activists as stated below.)*

"In August 2016, Pakistan passed a new law, the Prevention of Electronic Crimes Act, 2016. This law broadened Pakistan’s ability to crackdown on its critics rather than terrorists and criminals. The law allows the government to “censor online content and to criminalize internet user activity under extremely broad and vague criteria. The law also sanctions government authorities to access data of internet users without judicial review or oversight.” While in principle this is a civilian affair, the government acquiesced to the ISI’s demand for “legal cover for action against those allegedly committing online crimes against the state and undermining the national security and [law makers] had to agree with the proposal.” Consistent with Pakistan’s war on civil society, this law is not being used to restrict the myriad Pakistani terrorists who avidly use social media to spread their messages of “jihad” and other violent fatuity.

The first victims of this law were, in fact, civil society activists who were well-known for their reformist views exposited through social media. Pakistan’s security agencies disappeared Waqas Goraya and Asim Saeed on January 4, Salman Haider on January 6, and Ahmed Raza Naseer on January 7. Their “crimes” included promoting progressive, inclusive, and secular views that undermined the state-sponsored narrative of exclusivist definitions of Sunni Islam, support for Islamist terrorism and insurgency as tools of state policy, while also decrying the lack of protection for religious minorities and members of Muslim sects in Pakistan. To make matters worse, Pakistan’s religious fanatics have filed charges of blasphemy against these men. This effectively ensures that when these men are released, they will face a serious death threat. Persons in Pakistan accused of blasphemy are frequently murdered by vigilantes who are never punished for their bloody crimes."

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

haviZsultan said:


> This debate is a sad reminder of the fault lines in Pakistani society with some not even attempting to be tolerant. As I said no one liberal here is saying even once that hurting someones sentiments purposely is wrong. @Respect4Respect01 I have gone through the post and noted your point. This kind of abuse against Islam or any other religion should not occur and it is the job of authorities to stop them in order for vigilantes not taking the step themselves.
> 
> 1 But the questions are what defines the dark areas of what is acceptable and what is hate speech or hurting the sentiments of the majority? To the Taliban questioning suicide bombing is wrong. To a JI mullah or some here having a beard for men is a must and denying it is wrong. Everyone defines crimes against religion in their own ways. And its a tricky problem in my eyes.@Sinnerman108 is simply saying the same thing.
> 
> 2 What is the better way for muslims to behave vis a vis perceived blasphemy? Call for a cutting of heads or staying even-keeled and working to express their beliefs in open debate? Would it be better for Islam to win an opponent over or kill them? Winning over someone in my eyes is superior to murdering a blasphemer. According to the Quran and Hadith converting someone is a very good thing. And conversion isn't done by force, it is done with love, respect and understanding.
> 
> 3 If attacking Islam is bad what about the rubbish that escapes the mullahs mouths about Ahmedis Hindus and Christians. Blasphemy or religious abuse of their figures and prophets/idols is far more common in Pakistan and I have witnessed it. The proponents of stopping blasphemy against Islam do not even stop to wonder at this point with @Khafee directly calling @Musafir117 Ahmedi and dismissing his views because he may be from another religion. How can we even attempt to solve this problem, brother Khafee. Amendments to the blasphemy law, if not the scrapping of the law as emotional conservative clap trap must be accepted. A rule shouldn't be made that supports only one religion. This reminds me of Indians mindless stand on the beef ban. Why should a minority have to suffer?
> 
> 
> The same army being blamed for this senseless kidnapping traced and captured the abductors of Shahbaz Taseer. This is done by terrorists. I cannot believe even for a second that the secular and Ahmedi officers of the FIA/ISI who protected me and my people and have died for serving the country could for a second think of kidnapping activists because of opposing views.
> 
> But I agree that Pakistani society has not evolved to that point where extremely critical type of debate on religious doctrines and thinking can be allowed. People who have hurt the feelings of the majority should be dealt with by the judges, if not to provoke the brainless mullahs into (more) senseless violence.



Until @Respect4Respect01 had posted the Behnsa tweets, you were calling me names and going nuts, now that the forum can see what vile creatures they are, you are shamelessly deflecting, and posting wishy washy nonsense as usual. Musafir as can be seen in this very thread ,was as usual talking crap, just like you. So you jumping to his defence , and misconstruing my words was expected. Nothing wrong in me asking him not to make silly comments like you, and creating more problems for his community.

Btw, with all the nonsense you have spewed, you have yet to justify why Bhensa had to post insulting and derogatory remarks in the first place.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Respect4Respect01

haviZsultan said:


> This debate is a sad reminder of the fault lines in Pakistani society with some not even attempting to be tolerant. As I said no one liberal here is saying even once that hurting someones sentiments purposely is wrong. @Respect4Respect01 I have gone through the post and noted your point. This kind of abuse against Islam or any other religion should not occur and it is the job of authorities to stop them in order for vigilantes not taking the step themselves.
> 
> 1 But the questions are what defines the dark areas of what is acceptable and what is hate speech or hurting the sentiments of the majority? To the Taliban questioning suicide bombing is wrong. To a JI mullah or some here having a beard for men is a must and denying it is wrong. Everyone defines crimes against religion in their own ways. And its a tricky problem in my eyes.@Sinnerman108 is simply saying the same thing.
> 
> 2 What is the better way for muslims to behave vis a vis perceived blasphemy? Call for a cutting of heads or staying even-keeled and working to express their beliefs in open debate? Would it be better for Islam to win an opponent over or kill them? Winning over someone in my eyes is superior to murdering a blasphemer. According to the Quran and Hadith converting someone is a very good thing. And conversion isn't done by force, it is done with love, respect and understanding.
> 
> 3 If attacking Islam is bad what about the rubbish that escapes the mullahs mouths about Ahmedis Hindus and Christians. Blasphemy or religious abuse of their figures and prophets/idols is far more common in Pakistan and I have witnessed it. The proponents of stopping blasphemy against Islam do not even stop to wonder at this point with @Khafee directly calling @Musafir117 Ahmedi and dismissing his views because he may be from another religion. How can we even attempt to solve this problem, brother Khafee. Amendments to the blasphemy law, if not the scrapping of the law as emotional conservative clap trap must be accepted. A rule shouldn't be made that supports only one religion. This reminds me of Indians mindless stand on the beef ban. Why should a minority have to suffer?
> 
> 
> The same army being blamed for this senseless kidnapping traced and captured the abductors of Shahbaz Taseer. This is done by terrorists. I cannot believe even for a second that the secular and Ahmedi officers of the FIA/ISI who protected me and my people and have died for serving the country could for a second think of kidnapping activists because of opposing views.
> 
> But I agree that Pakistani society has not evolved to that point where extremely critical type of debate on religious doctrines and thinking can be allowed. People who have hurt the feelings of the majority should be dealt with by the judges, if not to provoke the brainless mullahs into (more) senseless violence.



There might be many issues in Pakistan and we need to resolve them, but some people are adding fuel to the fire, which is unacceptable. Believe me fried, i am just a average Muslim but i still could not read and look at what those "activists" posted on Bhensa page. I forced myself to find those screenshots for you so you could understand the background of story where it all started from. I only showed you few images, there is alot more content like that they posted on their page since last 4 or 5 years.

1. I think it is very much clear that disrespecting ANY religion is part of hate speech and people should be punished for that no matter which religion they belong to. You just can't ignore this because this is going to polarize our society further and sow dissent between different Fiqh's and Religions.

2. You are right and i agree with you, it is better if you win your opponent over. But that is the case if the other person is debating and questioning you about your religion, but these people outrightly abused Islam to provoke Muslims, then what can we do? Muslims are also humans, they are not angels, so there are good and bad people among Muslims too just like rest of the religions. Only angels are powerful enough to tolerate those activists, its not bearable for even average Muslims like myself.

3. The "Mullahs" you are talking about are mostly Jahil and Businessmen, and their product is Islam. They misuse Islam for their own interests and that is why they have nothing to do with Islam. But we can't say that all Maulvi's are bad because there are many good and educated Maulvi's who have studied Islam. The main problem in Pakistan is that some people are misusing these Honorific Islamic titles such as Maulana, Mullah, Maulvi and Shaikh. Mostly these people are self-declared scholars.
Now lets talk about blasphemy, if a person is a real Muslim he will never hurt sentiments of people belonging to other faiths. In my views, Islam does not allow you to judge people by their faith, you judge people by their actions. But there are some bad people in all religions that misuse their religion. You remember Pastor Terry Jones that burned Quran?..he was a extremist so he does not represent Christianity.

The main point is that nobody should be allowed to disrespect other peoples faith, you are allowed to ask questions but you have no right to create pages just to abuse ones faith. All religions forbid this but we all have stopped following the real teachings of God and instead created our own. Now, if some people do hurt sentiments of millions just to provoke them then they should be punished according to the Law. The courts are there to decide if they are guilty or not.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

Why are my posts being delayed because of a moderating hold?

==================================

Why would one force oneself to view objectionable material? Reading any FB page is a voluntary activity.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/bhensa-has-been-controlled.472407/page-59#ixzz4WhZIzhN8

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## haviZsultan

Good points there, respect. We are all part of Pakistani society and want our own little Pakistan tailored to our way of thinking and needs. At some point we will need to recklessly debate what system is best for Pakistan and take pieces from all ideologies to make an equal, egalitarian yet hurtful to the majorities conservative ideals, Pakistan.



Respect4Respect01 said:


> There might be many issues in Pakistan and we need to resolve them, but some people are adding fuel to the fire, which is unacceptable. Believe me fried, i am just a average Muslim but i still could not read and look at what those "activists" posted on Bhensa page. I forced myself to find those screenshots for you so you could understand the background of story where it all started from. I only showed you few images, there is alot more content like that they posted on their page since last 4 or 5 years.



I agree that bhensa is treading a thin line. It is not only abusive to most muslims but also recklessly uncaring for their own lives as we have seen even questioning the blasphemy law can do to people like Taseer and how his entire UnIslamic thinking was laid as the justification of that act. There is no need to insult religion, its not about believing or disbelieving in God, angels and prophets. It is about being courteous. 

Note that I have to constantly say I do not support blasphemy so I am not labelled a heretic here. I shouldn't have to explain myself though. I want whats best for Pakistan anyway.



> 1. I think it is very much clear that disrespecting ANY religion is part of hate speech and people should be punished for that no matter which religion they belong to.



I am glad you agree that blasphemy against Islam isn't the only thing wrong, but blasphemy (or in us muslims view disrespect-both terms have different innotations among followers of different religion) against any other religion is also wrong. This is a crucial similarity from which we can (perhaps) find common ground. Since you do not take offense easily this will be an easier discussion than with Pakistani/Arab KKK member Khafee. No offense. Though no matter how advanced his military knowledge may be he is orthodox at best in interpretation of religion.

Though disagreements are natural in the dark, fecund passages of nation building. 



> You just can't ignore this because this is going to polarize our society further and sow dissent between different Fiqh's and Religions.



This is where we need to consider the current setup. Aren't there already vastly different interpretations and dissent between the fiqh's and religions? Christians don't get along with Ahmedis over how the Ahmedis view Jesus, that is an external problem, outside our religion. What we should note is how difficult it is to say we are just muslim. Mind you there are not only shia sunni tensions but extreme disagreements between sufis, deobandis, wahabis and hanafis and salafis. It has been alleged that dancing of sufi saints is disallowed.

Sorry for being the pessimist. I strongly believe in modern concepts like Ijtehad to deal with conservative fallacies. But my basic point is there are already divisions. Its about closing those divisions and building respect and harmony between the various groups that is important. For that i strongly believe re-evaluating some of our core principles. Like the blasphemy law. Rest i have agreed with. To prevent mob like justice if not anything else the state has to take action against those who abuse and hate on ANY religion.



> 2. You are right and i agree with you, it is better if you win your opponent over. But that is the case if the other person is debating and questioning you about your religion, but these people outrightly abused Islam to provoke Muslims, then what can we do? Muslims are also humans, they are not angels, so there are good and bad people among Muslims too just like rest of the religions. Only angels are powerful enough to tolerate those activists, its not bearable for even average Muslims like myself.



While in a foreign country I have witnessed hate towards my religion and calling me arab when I am not. But the ones I truly admire is people like Ghamidi and Muhammad Farooq Khan and to a lesser extent Tariq Ramazan and Qadri who do not lose their cool. Also religion is openly criticized in the west. This, you may think applies only to Islam with Charlie Hebdo and the Christian equavilant pastor to our own JI mullahs. Infact Christianity is far more abused as a religion in the west by not just secularists but Christians. It is visible in movies, art and daily publications. There are some publications that survive on insulting Christian. But this is tolerated as debate there. Europe, since its early fanatical days has escaped the enclosing walls of orthodoxy.

I am not trying to justify but say that those of us who can tolerate even the worst abuse for Islam are in a far better position to present a better image of it to the world. Yet such people are killed. Muhammad Farooq Khan was slain and Ghamidi had to escape the country just because he refused to call shias kaffir.




> 3. The "Mullahs" you are talking about are mostly Jahil and Businessmen, and their product is Islam. They misuse Islam for their own interests and that is why they have nothing to do with Islam. But we can't say that all Maulvi's are bad because there are many good and educated Maulvi's who have studied Islam. The main problem in Pakistan is that some people are misusing these Honorific Islamic titles such as Maulana, Mullah, Maulvi and Shaikh. Mostly these people are self-declared scholars.



I agree. I have mentioned mullahs who are tolerant personally. But a large number of bad apples spoils the entire batch. It isn't just about these mullahs with titles defaming Islam. It is also about the entire system we want for Pakistan. We all know when religion is imposed the state focuses on the beard of a man and veil of a women instead of on important things like equality and better economic output. 



> Now lets talk about blasphemy, if a person is a real Muslim he will never hurt sentiments of people belonging to other faiths. In my views, Islam does not allow you to judge people by their faith, you judge people by their actions. But there are some bad people in all religions that misuse their religion. You remember Pastor Terry Jones that burned Quran?..he was a extremist so he does not represent Christianity.



I agree. The Taliban represent Islam as much as a wolf represents the entire animal kingdom. I have spoken specifically on my views of provoking more conservative muslims extensively and also have refused to support bhensa. So I will not comment further and I don't have to prove I love my religion, Islam in my own intricate way.



> The main point is that nobody should be allowed to disrespect other peoples faith, you are allowed to ask questions but you have no right to create pages just to abuse ones faith. All religions forbid this but we all have stopped following the real teachings of God and instead created our own. Now, if some people do hurt sentiments of millions just to provoke them then they should be punished according to the Law. The courts are there to decide if they are guilty or not.



I have agreed with this. There is no point making the situation any worse. When people are evolved into such a state where they can question religion so vehemently it will show and it will take time for us to think as citizens of some secular states have begun to think. Otherwise these people are only hurting sentiments of people who have not reached that point of tolerance.

I wish you the best, respect. Cheers for you have expressed yourself well. It is the more common, majorities view and as I support Islamic secularism with majoritarian thinking I understand that it is necessary for me to understand your and even more hostile elements like @Khafee's views


----------



## VCheng

haviZsultan said:


> I am not trying to justify but say that those of us who can tolerate even the worst abuse for Islam are in a far better position to present a better image of it to the world.



Radicalism and extremism in anything harms the source itself far more than anyone else.

This is the same issue as objecting to the content of a television channel. If one does not like it, just change the channel and watch something else. That is why there is a choice of channels.

Why do some self appointed guardians take it upon themselves to determine what others can or cannot watch or read? Demands for such censorship only betray their inner insecurities. 

Islam is simply too big to be in danger by a few FB pages or TV channels, that is for sure.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

haviZsultan said:


> I agree that bhensa is treading a thin line. It is not only abusive to most muslims but also recklessly uncaring for their own lives as we have seen even questioning the blasphemy law can do to people like Taseer and how his entire UnIslamic thinking was laid as the justification of that act. There is no need to insult religion, its not about believing or disbelieving in God, angels and prophets. It is about being courteous.
> 
> Note that I have to constantly say I do not support blasphemy so I am not labelled a heretic here. I shouldn't have to explain myself though. I want whats best for Pakistan anyway.



So even after all the blasphemous content posted on this thread "*Bhensa is treading a thin line"* ? They haven't crossed it yet? Wow what a supporter you are ! Congratulations, you should be proud of yourself.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## VCheng

haviZsultan said:


> I agree that bhensa is treading a thin line.



But why are we worried about how thin of a line anyone else is treading? We should all keep attention to our own lines and let others worry about theirs. Allah will sort _all _of us out one Day.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> But why are we worried about how thin of a line anyone else is treading? We should all keep attention to our own lines and let others worry about theirs. Allah will sort _all _of us out one Day.


He will definitely do that, but those against who official complaints have been filed, should be worrying about whats going to happen next.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

What _official _complaints? The Interior Minister has refuted any _official _action against these persons.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> What _official _complaints?


Ask your masters.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Why are my posts being delayed because of a moderating hold?
> 
> ==================================
> 
> Why would one force oneself to view objectionable material? Reading any FB page is a voluntary activity.
> 
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/bhensa-has-been-controlled.472407/page-59#ixzz4WhZIzhN8


It is not so simple, these people share it so much that it starts to show up on other people's feed. Now answer my question, 
What IS The Point Of These Pages?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

Respect4Respect01 said:


> It is not so simple, these people share it so much that it starts to show up on other people's feed. Now answer my question,
> What IS The Point Of These Pages?



To insult, hurt, provoke people, and show people as intolerant. Shows how vile they really are, despite the cloak of liberalism they wear. 

Didn't you see on this very thread, how a champion of liberalism was calling me names, and then you posted Behnsas crap, and he fizzled out? Little do they know, what awaits them.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## haviZsultan

Khafee said:


> To insult, hurt, provoke people, and show people as intolerant. Shows how vile they really are, despite the cloak of liberalism they wear.
> 
> Didn't you see on this very thread, how a champion of liberalism was calling me names, and then you posted Behnsas crap, and he fizzled out? Little do they know, what awaits them.


Now you believe you are the victim here with your intolerance. 

Hilarious. And petty. Every post you make in the end you threaten, like a belligerent kid. its hilarious how everyone becomes a champion on the internet after asking for a persons details from relatives. You don't scare me uncle.

As for Bhensa I have made my stance vivid. I do not support them or any anti Islam pages. But its no need to be so agitated. People condemn christianity and judaism too and much more harshly.


----------



## Khafee

haviZsultan said:


> Now you believe you are the victim here with your intolerance.
> 
> Hilarious. And petty. Every post you make in the end you threaten, like a belligerent kid. its hilarious how everyone becomes a champion on the internet after asking for a persons details from relatives. You don't scare me uncle.
> 
> As for Bhensa I have made my stance vivid. I do not support them or any anti Islam pages. But its no need to be so agitated. People condemn christianity and judaism too and much more harshly.



Worrying about me should be the least of your problems. Enjoy!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Respect4Respect01

haviZsultan said:


> Good points there, respect. We are all part of Pakistani society and want our own little Pakistan tailored to our way of thinking and needs. At some point we will need to recklessly debate what system is best for Pakistan and take pieces from all ideologies to make an equal, egalitarian yet hurtful to the majorities conservative ideals, Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that bhensa is treading a thin line. It is not only abusive to most muslims but also recklessly uncaring for their own lives as we have seen even questioning the blasphemy law can do to people like Taseer and how his entire UnIslamic thinking was laid as the justification of that act. There is no need to insult religion, its not about believing or disbelieving in God, angels and prophets. It is about being courteous.
> 
> Note that I have to constantly say I do not support blasphemy so I am not labelled a heretic here. I shouldn't have to explain myself though. I want whats best for Pakistan anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> I am glad you agree that blasphemy against Islam isn't the only thing wrong, but blasphemy (or in us muslims view disrespect-both terms have different innotations among followers of different religion) against any other religion is also wrong. This is a crucial similarity from which we can (perhaps) find common ground. Since you do not take offense easily this will be an easier discussion than with Pakistani/Arab KKK member Khafee. No offense. Though no matter how advanced his military knowledge may be he is orthodox at best in interpretation of religion.
> 
> Though disagreements are natural in the dark, fecund passages of nation building.
> 
> 
> 
> This is where we need to consider the current setup. Aren't there already vastly different interpretations and dissent between the fiqh's and religions? Christians don't get along with Ahmedis over how the Ahmedis view Jesus, that is an external problem, outside our religion. What we should note is how difficult it is to say we are just muslim. Mind you there are not only shia sunni tensions but extreme disagreements between sufis, deobandis, wahabis and hanafis and salafis. It has been alleged that dancing of sufi saints is disallowed.
> 
> Sorry for being the pessimist. I strongly believe in modern concepts like Ijtehad to deal with conservative fallacies. But my basic point is there are already divisions. Its about closing those divisions and building respect and harmony between the various groups that is important. For that i strongly believe re-evaluating some of our core principles. Like the blasphemy law. Rest i have agreed with. To prevent mob like justice if not anything else the state has to take action against those who abuse and hate on ANY religion.
> 
> 
> 
> While in a foreign country I have witnessed hate towards my religion and calling me arab when I am not. But the ones I truly admire is people like Ghamidi and Muhammad Farooq Khan and to a lesser extent Tariq Ramazan and Qadri who do not lose their cool. Also religion is openly criticized in the west. This, you may think applies only to Islam with Charlie Hebdo and the Christian equavilant pastor to our own JI mullahs. Infact Christianity is far more abused as a religion in the west by not just secularists but Christians. It is visible in movies, art and daily publications. There are some publications that survive on insulting Christian. But this is tolerated as debate there. Europe, since its early fanatical days has escaped the enclosing walls of orthodoxy.
> 
> I am not trying to justify but say that those of us who can tolerate even the worst abuse for Islam are in a far better position to present a better image of it to the world. Yet such people are killed. Muhammad Farooq Khan was slain and Ghamidi had to escape the country just because he refused to call shias kaffir.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. I have mentioned mullahs who are tolerant personally. But a large number of bad apples spoils the entire batch. It isn't just about these mullahs with titles defaming Islam. It is also about the entire system we want for Pakistan. We all know when religion is imposed the state focuses on the beard of a man and veil of a women instead of on important things like equality and better economic output.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. The Taliban represent Islam as much as a wolf represents the entire animal kingdom. I have spoken specifically on my views of provoking more conservative muslims extensively and also have refused to support bhensa. So I will not comment further and I don't have to prove I love my religion, Islam in my own intricate way.
> 
> 
> 
> I have agreed with this. There is no point making the situation any worse. When people are evolved into such a state where they can question religion so vehemently it will show and it will take time for us to think as citizens of some secular states have begun to think. Otherwise these people are only hurting sentiments of people who have not reached that point of tolerance.
> 
> I wish you the best, respect. Cheers for you have expressed yourself well. It is the more common, majorities view and as I support Islamic secularism with majoritarian thinking I understand that it is necessary for me to understand your and even more hostile elements like @Khafee's views



Bhensa page clearly crossed the line, i don't think we need any more proof for that after i posted some images yesterday. I am actually going to go one step further, i am going to call them extremists, these people are mentally ill.

I have always said that NOBODY is allowed to disrespect others faith. As a Muslim i am Not allowed to utter a single word against other people's religion, if i do then that is my fault and has nothing to do with my religion. The only problem i have here is with some people defending those extremist activists even after realizing that they crossed the line by a mile.

There is nothing wrong with being conservative, you can't change the religion just because times have changed. You don't have to be a liberal or secular to be peaceful and live in harmony. There are bad people everywhere, they are just being controlled by the law, even in western countries hundreds of shops are robbed during blackouts.

I am not going to comment on these people you named because i don't know about them alot. There are also some people who think All Maulvi's are bad, these days there are some people who can't even look at people with a Beard. Beard is a personal choice, if nobody cares about you being clean shaven, then why do you care about others beard.

We are on the same page here with some exceptions, good debate.



Khafee said:


> To insult, hurt, provoke people, and show people as intolerant. Shows how vile they really are, despite the cloak of liberalism they wear.
> 
> Didn't you see on this very thread, how a champion of liberalism was calling me names, and then you posted Behnsas crap, and he fizzled out? Little do they know, what awaits them.



You are correct sir, i just wanted to hear that from @Syed.Ali.Haider because he doesn't have much to say except defend those extremists.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## VCheng

Yet again, please let me make it clear: *I am defending the due, fair and equal process of law for all citizens, nothing more and nothing less.*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## salarsikander

So who took them ? Did police investigate it ?

Before that let's not blame any agency whatsoever

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

Whoever took them, let us first realize that it is a violation of law and a denial of the abductee's rights. A crime has likely been committed by persons unknown at this point in time.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## salarsikander

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Yet again, please let me make it clear: *I am defending the due, fair and equal process of law for all citizens, nothing more and nothing less.*


Lol. For that courts need to be independent the recent panama fiasco alone tells us more if that is the case



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Whoever took them, let us first realize that it is a violation of law and a denial of the abductee's rights. A crime has likely been committed by persons unknown at this point in time.


So why not register a case against unknown person. In land of Pakistan it happens all the time registering cases against unknown people


----------



## VCheng

What if the case is registered and the abductors turn out be what is rumored? Now there is an even bigger problem.


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Yet again, please let me make it clear: *I am defending the due, fair and equal process of law for all citizens, nothing more and nothing less.*


That is what we are saying too, but the difference is that you are blaming the agencies without any proof you don't even know if they those extremist activists are actually kidnapped or hiding somewhere. You are not ready to accept that those extremist activists have hurt sentiments of millions of people.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

What part of "unknown persons" is not clear? "A crime has likely been committed by_ persons unknown at this point _in time."

And if somebody is offended, it has no bearing on due process of law, and it does not limit anybody's rights, but their own problem.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> What part of "unknown persons" is not clear? "A crime has likely been committed by_ persons unknown at this point _in time."
> 
> And if somebody is offended, it has no bearing on due process of law, and it does not limit anybody's rights, but their own problem.


"Unknown persons" crimes will be revealed when the time comes, but for now according to Pakistani Law blasphemy is a heinous crime, authorities should drag those extremist "activists" out of their basements where they are hiding and present them before the court.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

But the authorities have already declared that there is no pending action for blasphemy against these persons.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## war&peace

Azlan Haider said:


> The Holy Quran prescribes severe punishment for spreading "Al-Fitnah" or "Al-Fasaad" on Allah's land (5:33). Allah tells us that _Fitnah is worse than killing_ (2:191) ...... FITNAH means _unrest or rebellion, especially against a rightful ruler_. and FASAD means spreading mischief in a Muslim land, creating disorder in the Muslim community, or a revolution or war against a just government/establishment, or other similar things..
> 
> 
> As for hate speech/blasphemy, the Holy Quran does not prescribe any worldly punishment for this offense. Quite the contrary, Allah tells us to ignore and avoid blasphemers, and leave it to Allah almighty to decide their fate (9:74, 4:140, 28:55, 7:199)
> 
> 
> So, as per the Holy Quran, hate speech/blasphemy is not "Fitnah/Fasad"(_Fasad_ is a crime punishable by death)...
> 
> 
> In fact, the Holy Quran does not prescribe any worldly punishment for _religious offenses _(Blasphemy, Apostasy etc.)_ .... _The Holy Quran prescribes worldly punishments only for worldly crimes (Murder, Theft, Fasad etc.) ... It's really that simple
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Pakistan law includes the principle of fasad-fil-arz (mischief on earth) ... Let the courts decide whether or not the _alleged_ _criminals_ committed "fasad-fil-arz" .... Section 311, Pakistan Penal Code:
> 
> http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/legislation/1860/actXLVof1860.html#123


(AtTaubah 9: 74) 
They swear by Allah that they did not say [anything against the Prophet] while they had said the word of disbelief and disbelieved after their [pretense of] Islam and planned that which they were not to attain. And they were not resentful except [for the fact] that Allah and His Messenger had enriched them of His bounty. So if they repent, it is better for them; but if they turn away, Allah will punish them with a painful punishment in this world and the Hereafter. And there will not be for them on earth any protector or helper.

(An-Nisa 4: 140)
And it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation. Indeed, you would then be like them. Indeed Allah will gather the hypocrites and disbelievers in Hell all together -

(Al-Qasas 28: 55)
And when they hear ill speech, they turn away from it and say, "For us are our deeds, and for you are your deeds. Peace will be upon you; we seek not the ignorant."

(Al-Araaf 7: 199)
Take what is given freely, enjoin what is good, and turn away from the ignorant.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> But the authorities have already declared that there is no pending action for blasphemy against these persons.


you asked same thing yesterday and i gave you my answer, there are no cases against them because our government is scared of moombati mafia, and there is western pressure on them, how can they refuse orders from their masters?

Now answer my question that you have been avoiding since last 3 or 4 days...what is the reason or point of creating such pages?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HAIDER

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> But the authorities have already declared that there is no pending action for blasphemy against these persons.


So, it means they are in some agency possession ... ????


----------



## salarsikander

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> What if the case is registered and the abductors turn out be what is rumored? Now there is an even bigger problem.


Please learn to quote me next time as I do with you. I find it offesnive when you don't quote me. When clearly you're responding me.

As for answer whatever it turns out be who cares unless it is properly investigated. That's not how Justice system work. It could also be work of CIA or raw or Taliban who knows ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

HAIDER said:


> So, it means they are in some agency possession ... ????



That has not been shown - yet.

it could also be work of CIA or raw or Taliban, who knows, as if some evil foreign power was offended by a mere FB page too. Not likely.


----------



## salarsikander

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> That has not been shown - yet.
> 
> it could also be work of CIA or raw or Taliban, who knows, as if some evil foreign power was offended by a mere FB page too. Not likely.


To instigate violence who knows

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

LOL. As if violence needs a helping hand there.


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> That has not been shown - yet.
> 
> it could also be work of CIA or raw or Taliban, who knows, as if some evil foreign power was* offended by a mere FB page *too. Not likely.


For the Trillionth time.

W-h-a-t I-s T-h-e P-o-i-n-t O-f T-h-o-s-e P-a-g-e-s.?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> That has not been shown - yet.
> 
> it could also be work of CIA or raw or Taliban, who knows, as if some evil foreign power was offended by a mere FB page too. Not likely.


Well that is the spin you would give, but Pakistan has a lot of enemies, and anyone could use this particular situation to exploit it, to suit it's agenda.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> That has not been shown - yet.
> 
> it could also be work of CIA or raw or Taliban, who knows, as if some evil foreign power was offended by a mere FB page too. Not likely.


Let me tell you one thing, if you abuse me or even my parents,i would just ignore you. But if you are going to insult my Prophet PBUH then i am not even going to bear a single word intended to insult him.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Khafee

Respect4Respect01 said:


> Let me tell you one thing, if you abuse me or even my parents,i would just ignore you. But if you are going to insult my Prophet PBUH then i am not even going to bear a single word intended to insult him.


And this is why the likes of him, and his supporters, get sleepless nights.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Khafee said:


> Well that is the spin you would give, but Pakistan has a lot of enemies, and anyone could use this particular situation to exploit it, to suit it's agenda.


Pakistan does have a lot of enemies, i personally add moombati mafia NGO's to that list too. These people work like slow poison, you are murdered without even realizing it.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

Respect4Respect01 said:


> Pakistan does have a lot of enemies, i personally add moombati mafia NGO's to that list too. These people work like slow poison, you are murdered without even realizing it.


Time to give them back their moombati with interest.........

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Khafee said:


> Time to give them back their moombati with interest.........


haha good idea, but there is no capable leader to do that, Ch Nisar tried to control these people but he is afraid of their backlash, these people got supporters in high places.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## salarsikander

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> LOL. As if violence needs a helping hand there.


This will be my last attempt to converse with you ! 

Learn to respect other members by quoting them ! 

If you can't consider this as last reply from me .

Secondly, yes to instigate violence it needs a reason. Either the black stained face would be hiding or he must have been abducted by some unknown group.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

What a disingenuous campaign to try and confuse the issue.

The issue is not what the pages said that people find objectionable. The REAL issue is whether anyone deserves to disappear without due process of law. Taking offence at objectionable material may be morally desirable, but it can never, by itself, be cause enough to justify abduction or murder.

Plain and simple.


----------



## Khafee

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> What a disingenuous campaign to try and confuse the issue.
> 
> The issue is not what the pages that people find objectionable. The REAL issue is whether anyone deserves to disappear without due process of law. Taking offence at objectionable material may be morally desirable, but it can never, by itself, be cause enough to justify abduction or murder.
> 
> Plain and simple.


How many times are you going to copy and paste?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> What a disingenuous campaign to try and confuse the issue.
> 
> The issue is not what the pages that people find objectionable. The REAL issue is whether anyone deserves to disappear without due process of law. Taking offence at objectionable material may be morally desirable, but it can never, by itself, be cause enough to justify abduction or murder.
> 
> Plain and simple.


No that is not the real issue, this thread is about the Bhensa Page. You are ignoring the real issue, the real issue is why those extremists hurt sentiments of Muslims without ANY reason. Their page is also against Facebook's terms and services. You are trying to defend unlawful actions through the law.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

The original page was not removed by FB. And there is a new page now with the same material.

So FB obviously does not find it in violation of its rules.

Pakistan's Interior minister apparently agrees with FB's actions too.


----------



## Khafee

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The original page was not removed by FB. And there is a new page now with the same material.
> 
> So FB obviously does not find it in violation of its rules.
> 
> Pakistan's Interior minister apparently agrees with FB's actions too.


Only someone as sick as you would be touting that info so proudly. True colors showing through.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The original page was not removed by FB. And there is a new page now with the same material.
> 
> So FB obviously does not find it in violation of its rules.
> 
> Pakistan's Interior minister apparently agrees with FB's actions too.


No stop misquoting Ch.Nisar, he denied fake news reports that alleged that the government registered cases against those extremists. He did not deny that those extremists did not commit blasphemy.
Those pages are against Facebook's rules, the problem is that most people don't know how to report these pages. Facebook doesn't check each page manually when it is created, it only checks them when reported.

"Content that attacks people based on their actual or perceived race, ethnicity, national origin, *religion*, sex, gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, disability or disease is* not allowed*."

Is this not clear for you?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

The truth has no color at all. The following remain _facts_:

The original page was not removed by FB. And there is a new page now with the same material. And the Interior Minister has confirmed that there is no official action pending against the disappeared.

Good enough for me.


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The truth has no color at all. The following remain _facts_:
> 
> The original page was not removed by FB. And there is a new page now with the same material. And the Interior Minister has confirmed that there is no official action pending against the disappeared.
> 
> Good enough for me.


now read and reply to my post above this.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Khafee

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The truth has no color at all. The following remain _facts_:
> 
> The original page was not removed by FB. And there is a new page now with the same material. And the Interior Minister has confirmed that there is no official action pending against the disappeared.
> 
> Good enough for me.


What remains a fact is that you love the fact that someone actually made an FB page to insult Islam and everything linked to it.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## VCheng

My posts are being censored again:

Those making false accusations against me should read my signature. 

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/bhensa-has-been-controlled.472407/page-62#ixzz4Wn47JRs9


----------



## Khafee

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> My posts are being censored again:
> 
> Those making false accusations against me should read my signature.
> 
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/bhensa-has-been-controlled.472407/page-62#ixzz4Wn47JRs9


What else do voices in your head tell you?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## haviZsultan

Respect I think we are agreed that no one in his right mind will support blasphemy including syed. There is no proof syed "loves the fact that someone has made an FB page insulting Islam"... we are merely talking about reaction which can be Qadri like or tolerant like.

Though I do not agree with most of brother @Syed.Ali.Haider 's views he provides a critical perspective that should not be ignored. His views are vastly different from even my secular tastes and his support for America is linked to him staying there and seeing the positive things in that society though there are negative factors too.

But imagine a society with no critics. Such a society will have no one to check the power of the clergy or even clip the wings of liberals like me or present views that may help us improve and fix mistakes. The problem isn't syed. As usual it is incapability to stomach different views by certain person.

I have nothing against this one person. But unfortunately he is too sensitive. If we lose our cool so quickly how will we precisely deal with the thousands of anti Islam pages by presenting a positive image of Islam? Bhensa was a page I had not even heard about but in the west there are many more, most not in urdu and for the western reader. We need people who can control their shit, so to speak.

As for this topic. Its been discussed relentlessly. I have been trying to keep away from this thread. In the coming years Pakistanis different schools of thoughts ability to work together will prove pivotal to the growth of Pakistan, economically, martially and in many other ways. We all want whats best for it khafee. Whether you admit it or not.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

haviZsultan said:


> Respect I think we are agreed that no one in his right mind will support blasphemy including syed. There is no proof syed "loves the fact that someone has made an FB page insulting Islam"... we are merely talking about reaction which can be Qadri like or tolerant like.
> 
> Though I do not agree with most of brother @Syed.Ali.Haider 's views he provides a critical perspective that should not be ignored. His views are vastly different from even my secular tastes and his support for America is linked to him staying there and seeing the positive things in that society though there are negative factors too.
> 
> But imagine a society with no critics. Such a society will have no one to check the power of the clergy or even clip the wings of liberals like me or present views that may help us improve and fix mistakes. The problem isn't syed. As usual it is incapability to stomach different views by certain person.
> 
> I have nothing against this one person. But unfortunately he is too sensitive. If we lose our cool so quickly how will we precisely deal with the thousands of anti Islam pages by presenting a positive image of Islam? Bhensa was a page I had not even heard about but in the west there are many more, most not in urdu and for the western reader. We need people who can control their shit, so to speak.
> 
> As for this topic. Its been discussed relentlessly. I have been trying to keep away from this thread. In the coming years Pakistanis different schools of thoughts ability to work together will prove pivotal to the growth of Pakistan, economically, martially and in many other ways. We all want whats best for it khafee. Whether you admit it or not.



Thank you, but I am not the topic here, nor any other member.

What Pakistan needs to do is to find the missing persons as a matter of urgency.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Thank you, but I am not the topic here, nor any other member.
> 
> What Pakistan needs to do is to find the missing persons as a matter of urgency.


Until then, tum mamtam peeto

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

The death of due process of law for all citizenry is indeed a matter of mourning for civilized societies.


----------



## Khafee

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> The death of due process of law for all citizenry is indeed a matter of mourning for civilized societies.


liken tum civilized kahan hoe, tum to behnsa kay ghum main nidhal hoe!

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

Here is a take on the issue from the Chinese press:

http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/polit...-pakistan-feeling-spooked-over-missing-social


*THE DISAPPEARED: WHY PAKISTAN IS FEELING SPOOKED OVER MISSING SOCIAL MEDIA ACTIVISTS*
*The suspected abductions of five social media personalities have fuelled fears the country’s formidable national security apparatus is expanding its reach, opening a ‘dark new chapter’ for civil society*

BY TOM HUSSAIN

23 JAN 2017






_Pakistani rights activists hold images of bloggers who have disappeared, during a protest in Lahore on January 12. Photo: AFP_


*The disappearances this month of five Pakistani social media activists have fuelled a rare public examination of the pervasive powers wielded by the country’s national security apparatus and the elected government’s inability to rein them in.*

The five men were detained in Islamabad, the capital, and in and around the populous eastern city of Lahore between January 4 and 7, all by plain-clothed men riding pickup trucks.

No shots were fired during the detentions, nor any claims of responsibility made. The only communications were sent to family members from personal devices by abductors posing as abductees. The wife of respected leftist poet and blogger Salman Haider was instructed to collect his car from a highway junction on the outskirts of Islamabad.





_A supporter of Awami Worker Party holds a portrait of missing university professor Salman Haider during a demonstration to condemn the missing human rights activists, in Karachi, Pakistan. Photo: AP_


Human rights groups were quick to draw a parallel between the disappearances of the activists and those of scores of people who regularly go missing from areas of Pakistan affected by two-decades-old insurgencies by the Taliban in northwest tribal areas bordering Afghanistan and by separatists waging a low-intensity rebellion in the western province of Baluchistan.

Baluchistan is home to the port of Gwadar, the focal point of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), a US$51.5 billion investment programme that is part of President Xi Jinping’s (習近平) One Belt, One Road trade initiative to improve China’s connectivity with its neighbours.





_Chinese trucks carrying trade goods are pictured parked at the Gwadar port, some 700km west of Karachi. Photo: AFP_


*By the end of 2014, the number of people missing and feared dead in the country rose to 5,149, according to Defence of Human Rights, a Pakistani non-governmental organisation.*

The Twitter hashtag #RecoverSalmanHaider, started by his younger brother to spread the news of his disappearance, quickly trended as emotional activists blamed the national security apparatus for the disappearances of the five men.

*Pakistani right-wingers cry ‘blasphemy’ to muzzle liberals*

“This is the sensitive state. It is a sign of weakness that if anybody criticises their policies, all their Facebook pages have been shut down and deleted, and these people have been abducted,” said Jibran Nasir, a prominent human rights activist, in a television appearance.

Pakistanis active on social media were drawn to a poem written by Haider and published last July in _Tanqeed_ (criticism), an e-zine he co-edits:

_Right now the friends of my friends are being ‘disappeared’_

_Soon it will be my friends’ turn_

_And then mine …_

_When I become the file_

_That my father will bring to court hearings_

_Or the picture that my son will kiss when asked by a journalist_





_Supporters of Awami Worker Party hold a demonstration to condemn the missing human rights activists, in Karachi, Pakistan. Photo: AFP_


However, some are perplexed that the five social media activists have been singled out for abduction. “All are known for airing their views, sometimes critical of authority, extremism and intolerance, on social media,” noted the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan. But none of them are considered controversial or renowned outside civil society. Haider’s poem on missing people had attracted only 158 likes on _Tanqeed_ ’s Facebook page.

*Pakistan’s powerful army chief backs China investment deal in remote Baluchistan*

Fearing that the disappearances might herald a wave of detentions under a new cybercrime law enacted last August, activists recanted their unsubstantiated accusations against the military or deleted them from social media accounts. Others deactivated or deleted their social media pages altogether.

Nonetheless, *public concern over the suspected role of the security agencies continued to grow as Pakistanis backed activists’ calls, under the Twitter hashtag #RecoverAllActivists, for due legal process to be accorded to the missing activists if, in fact, they had been detained for violating the cybercrime law.*





_Pakistan's Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif. Photo: AFP_


Pressure has built on Nawaz Sharif, the prime minister, to fulfil promises to bring a halt to illegal detentions. Interior Minister Nisar Ali Khan has told members of the Senate, the upper house of Pakistan’s parliament, that “this government is not in the business of abducting people and we will not tolerate such disappearances while we are in power”.

However,* the government’s inability to provide any information on the missing activists has fed perceptions that it does not want to antagonise the powerful military.*

*The Pakistani girls used as payments for never-ending debts*

*“With the disappearance of Salman Haider and … [four] other activists, a dark new chapter in the state’s murky, illegal war against civil society appears to have been opened,” the country’s top English newspaper, Dawn, said in an editorial *written in response to the interior minister’s comments. Haider blogs for the newspaper.

“Where once-missing persons belonged to the remote areas of the country … and mostly involved those accused of waging war against the Pakistani state, *the tactic has now clearly been broadened to encompass anyone who is deemed an irritant to state policy – or the policies of a state within the state.”*





_Pakistani military cadets march on the birth anniversary of the country's founder Mohammad Ali Jinnah at his mausoleum in Karachi on December 25. Photo: AFP_


Throughout the controversy, the military’s propaganda arm, the Inter Services Public Relations directorate, has offered no comment. Instead,* popular pro-military social media pages have launched a campaign alleging that the missing activists were the administrators of a secular activist Facebook page named Bhensa (buffalo), notorious for mocking the national security apparatus and religious extremists.*

*On that pretext, Cyber Force for Pakistan, a Facebook page liked by more 400,000 people, has accused the missing activists of being funded by India’s intelligence services. Similarly, Defence Pakistan, a pro-military page with more than 7 million followers, has equated content purportedly written for Bhensa by the missing activists as blasphemous.*





_Pakistani mourners load the coffin of one of those killed in an attack on the Police Training College Baluchistan onto a van in Quetta on October 25, 2016. Pakistan mourned the killing of at least 61 people in a brutal gun and suicide bomb assault on a police academy, the deadliest attack on a security installation in the country's history. Photo: AFP_


*In turn, that has prompted a wave of social media posts demanding that they be prosecuted for insulting the Prophet Mohammed, an offence punishable under law by the death sentence. In turn, rights activists have demanded the government prosecute the administrators of Defence Pakistan on charges of incitement to violence*. “Attempts are being made to set our country on fire and to divide it,” said Nasir on social media. *“For God’s sake, think about what you are doing, repent, think about the future of this country.”* ■

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Here is a take on the issue from the Chinese press:
> 
> http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/polit...-pakistan-feeling-spooked-over-missing-social
> 
> 
> *THE DISAPPEARED: WHY PAKISTAN IS FEELING SPOOKED OVER MISSING SOCIAL MEDIA ACTIVISTS*
> *The suspected abductions of five social media personalities have fuelled fears the country’s formidable national security apparatus is expanding its reach, opening a ‘dark new chapter’ for civil society*
> 
> BY TOM HUSSAIN
> 
> 23 JAN 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Pakistani rights activists hold images of bloggers who have disappeared, during a protest in Lahore on January 12. Photo: AFP_
> 
> 
> *The disappearances this month of five Pakistani social media activists have fuelled a rare public examination of the pervasive powers wielded by the country’s national security apparatus and the elected government’s inability to rein them in.*
> 
> The five men were detained in Islamabad, the capital, and in and around the populous eastern city of Lahore between January 4 and 7, all by plain-clothed men riding pickup trucks.
> 
> No shots were fired during the detentions, nor any claims of responsibility made. The only communications were sent to family members from personal devices by abductors posing as abductees. The wife of respected leftist poet and blogger Salman Haider was instructed to collect his car from a highway junction on the outskirts of Islamabad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A supporter of Awami Worker Party holds a portrait of missing university professor Salman Haider during a demonstration to condemn the missing human rights activists, in Karachi, Pakistan. Photo: AP_
> 
> 
> Human rights groups were quick to draw a parallel between the disappearances of the activists and those of scores of people who regularly go missing from areas of Pakistan affected by two-decades-old insurgencies by the Taliban in northwest tribal areas bordering Afghanistan and by separatists waging a low-intensity rebellion in the western province of Baluchistan.
> 
> Baluchistan is home to the port of Gwadar, the focal point of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), a US$51.5 billion investment programme that is part of President Xi Jinping’s (習近平) One Belt, One Road trade initiative to improve China’s connectivity with its neighbours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Chinese trucks carrying trade goods are pictured parked at the Gwadar port, some 700km west of Karachi. Photo: AFP_
> 
> 
> *By the end of 2014, the number of people missing and feared dead in the country rose to 5,149, according to Defence of Human Rights, a Pakistani non-governmental organisation.*
> 
> The Twitter hashtag #RecoverSalmanHaider, started by his younger brother to spread the news of his disappearance, quickly trended as emotional activists blamed the national security apparatus for the disappearances of the five men.
> 
> *Pakistani right-wingers cry ‘blasphemy’ to muzzle liberals*
> 
> “This is the sensitive state. It is a sign of weakness that if anybody criticises their policies, all their Facebook pages have been shut down and deleted, and these people have been abducted,” said Jibran Nasir, a prominent human rights activist, in a television appearance.
> 
> Pakistanis active on social media were drawn to a poem written by Haider and published last July in _Tanqeed_ (criticism), an e-zine he co-edits:
> 
> _Right now the friends of my friends are being ‘disappeared’_
> 
> _Soon it will be my friends’ turn_
> 
> _And then mine …_
> 
> _When I become the file_
> 
> _That my father will bring to court hearings_
> 
> _Or the picture that my son will kiss when asked by a journalist_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Supporters of Awami Worker Party hold a demonstration to condemn the missing human rights activists, in Karachi, Pakistan. Photo: AFP_
> 
> 
> However, some are perplexed that the five social media activists have been singled out for abduction. “All are known for airing their views, sometimes critical of authority, extremism and intolerance, on social media,” noted the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan. But none of them are considered controversial or renowned outside civil society. Haider’s poem on missing people had attracted only 158 likes on _Tanqeed_ ’s Facebook page.
> 
> *Pakistan’s powerful army chief backs China investment deal in remote Baluchistan*
> 
> Fearing that the disappearances might herald a wave of detentions under a new cybercrime law enacted last August, activists recanted their unsubstantiated accusations against the military or deleted them from social media accounts. Others deactivated or deleted their social media pages altogether.
> 
> Nonetheless, *public concern over the suspected role of the security agencies continued to grow as Pakistanis backed activists’ calls, under the Twitter hashtag #RecoverAllActivists, for due legal process to be accorded to the missing activists if, in fact, they had been detained for violating the cybercrime law.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Pakistan's Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif. Photo: AFP_
> 
> 
> Pressure has built on Nawaz Sharif, the prime minister, to fulfil promises to bring a halt to illegal detentions. Interior Minister Nisar Ali Khan has told members of the Senate, the upper house of Pakistan’s parliament, that “this government is not in the business of abducting people and we will not tolerate such disappearances while we are in power”.
> 
> However,* the government’s inability to provide any information on the missing activists has fed perceptions that it does not want to antagonise the powerful military.*
> 
> *The Pakistani girls used as payments for never-ending debts*
> 
> *“With the disappearance of Salman Haider and … [four] other activists, a dark new chapter in the state’s murky, illegal war against civil society appears to have been opened,” the country’s top English newspaper, Dawn, said in an editorial *written in response to the interior minister’s comments. Haider blogs for the newspaper.
> 
> “Where once-missing persons belonged to the remote areas of the country … and mostly involved those accused of waging war against the Pakistani state, *the tactic has now clearly been broadened to encompass anyone who is deemed an irritant to state policy – or the policies of a state within the state.”*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Pakistani military cadets march on the birth anniversary of the country's founder Mohammad Ali Jinnah at his mausoleum in Karachi on December 25. Photo: AFP_
> 
> 
> Throughout the controversy, the military’s propaganda arm, the Inter Services Public Relations directorate, has offered no comment. Instead,* popular pro-military social media pages have launched a campaign alleging that the missing activists were the administrators of a secular activist Facebook page named Bhensa (buffalo), notorious for mocking the national security apparatus and religious extremists.*
> 
> *On that pretext, Cyber Force for Pakistan, a Facebook page liked by more 400,000 people, has accused the missing activists of being funded by India’s intelligence services. Similarly, Defence Pakistan, a pro-military page with more than 7 million followers, has equated content purportedly written for Bhensa by the missing activists as blasphemous.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Pakistani mourners load the coffin of one of those killed in an attack on the Police Training College Baluchistan onto a van in Quetta on October 25, 2016. Pakistan mourned the killing of at least 61 people in a brutal gun and suicide bomb assault on a police academy, the deadliest attack on a security installation in the country's history. Photo: AFP_
> 
> 
> *In turn, that has prompted a wave of social media posts demanding that they be prosecuted for insulting the Prophet Mohammed, an offence punishable under law by the death sentence. In turn, rights activists have demanded the government prosecute the administrators of Defence Pakistan on charges of incitement to violence*. “Attempts are being made to set our country on fire and to divide it,” said Nasir on social media. *“For God’s sake, think about what you are doing, repent, think about the future of this country.”* ■



Why isn't it surprising that "Tom Hussain" is saying this?

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## VCheng

In country where a murderer like Qadri is a hero, but the five missing activists deserve death for blasphemy, the future of civil society can be nothing but bleak:

http://www.ktbs.com/story/34339905/blasphemy-law-exalts-killer-threatens-missing-bloggers

*Pakistan's blasphemy law worries opponents of extremism*
*By KATHY GANNON*
*Associated Press*





(AP Photo/B.K. Bangash). In this photo taken on Thursday, Jan 5, 2017, people visit the shrine of Mumtaz Qadri, who was hanged for gunning down a politician who criticized Pakistan's controversial blasphemy law and defended a Christian woman, in Barakhao.




(AP Photo/Anjum Naveed, File). FILE - In this Tuesday, March 1, 2016, file photo, thousands of people attend the funeral of Mumtaz Qadri who was hanged for gunning down a politician who criticized the country's blasphemy law, in Rawalpindi, Pakistan.




(AP Photo/B.K. Bangash). In this photo taken on Wednesday, Jan 5, 2011, Mumtaz Qadri, who was hanged for killing a Pakistani politician who criticized Pakistan's controversial blasphemy law and defended a Christian woman, arrives at a court in Islamabad.




(AP Photo/B.K. Bangash). In this photo taken on Thursday, Jan 5, 2017, receipts with pictures of Mumtaz Qadri, are issued to people who donate money for the construction of the shrine in Barakhao, Pakistan. People visit the shrine to pay respect to Qadri.




(AP Photo/K.M. Chaudhry). In this file photo taken on Thursday, Jan. 12, 2017, activists from Pakistan's civil society demand recovery of the missing persons, in Lahore, Pakistan. Pakistan's controversial blasphemy law which demands death to anyone accused of blasphemy.





BARAKHAO, Pakistan (AP) - Two ornate minarets pierce the evening sky and frame the emerald green dome of a shrine to Mumtaz Qadri. He was hanged for killing a politician who criticized Pakistan's blasphemy law - a measure that can bring a death sentence for anyone insulting Islam.

A marble-encased tomb holds the body of Qadri, a member of an elite police unit charged with protecting Punjab provincial Gov. Salman Taseer. But instead of keeping him safe, Qadri turned his AK-47 assault rifle on Taseer and killed him. With a smile on his face, Qadri then put down his weapon and was arrested, tried and hanged last year.

Qadri's brother, Amir Sajjad, spends afternoons and evenings at the shrine, collecting donations for a mosque and madrassa, or religious school, to be built at the site on the outskirts of Islamabad. Millions of rupees have been collected, Sajjad said.

*The shrine worries those in Pakistan who fear a growth of extremism. There have been brutal sectarian killings, violent demonstrations by clerics in favor of the blasphemy law, and threats to anyone who dares to challenge it.

Earlier this month, five liberal-leaning bloggers disappeared - the latest targets of radical clerics and their followers. The clerics have accused the missing writers of blasphemy following a social media campaign raising those allegations without any evidence. In Pakistan, a simple accusation of blasphemy can be tantamount to a death sentence.*

*The government has stepped in, saying there was no evidence the bloggers said or did anything that could be considered blasphemous, and that there was no suggestion of any of them being charged with blasphemy.*

*The bloggers, whose disappearances have been decried nationally and internationally, had been critical of the military and bemoaned the presence of radical religious militant groups in their country. No group has taken responsibility for their disappearances.*

Supporters of the bloggers say the shrine to Qadri exalts those who kill in the name of religion. They also say it makes it dangerous to even amend the blasphemy law to prevent it from being abused.

Attorney Saif-ul-Mulk, who prosecuted Qadri, said the Supreme Court of Pakistan judged him to be "a terrorist," yet clerics and others are "trying to paint him as a saint."

*"I can assure you that in the coming 10 to 20 years, he will be a saint of very high profile and billions of rupees will be coming to his shrine,"* the attorney said.

Mulk is defending Asiya Bibi, a Christian who has been on death row for six years, and he has taken her final appeal to the Supreme Court. Bibi was accused by a group of co-workers of insulting Islam's prophet, a charge she denies. The accusation came after a dispute with the co-workers that she drank the same water as hem while they were working in a field.

Mulk travels with security, and police are stationed outside his home in the eastern Punjab city of Lahore.

In an interview, Mulk noted that the Qadri case risks encouraging other would-be "martyrs," whose relatives might gain financially from carrying out similar killings.

"If one person is not able to feed his parents and family, he gives his life, kills somebody big, and the whole family becomes richer than they could ever dream," he said.

*For some in Pakistan, the shrine is seen as yet another tool in the arsenal of radical Sunni Muslim groups seeking to consolidate their hold over Pakistan's 180 million people.*

Ayesha Siddiqa, a defense analyst who has written extensively on Pakistan's military, warned in a recent column that Qadri's shrine will emerge as a rallying point for preserving the blasphemy law, which some liberal lawmakers would like to see at least amended so it is more difficult to abuse.

"The blasphemy law is their big ticket to support amongst the masses, which they would like to consolidate further with the symbol they have now erected in the form of Mumtaz Qadri's shrine near the capital city," Siddiqa wrote. "Last year, his family had buried him strategically in an open ground and sort of wilderness (area) to ensure that a structure could be built on top."

The roof of the shrine shimmers from thousands of tiny inlaid mirrors. A crystal chandelier revolves atop Qadri's marble grave embellished with verses from the Quran.

Those coming to pay homage to Qadri lay their prayer mats amid the construction that is going on.

On a recent day, the shrine drew men, women and children, as well as a handful of students from Pakistan's financial hub of Karachi, a cosmopolitan city of 20 million people on the Arabian Sea. The students, who were well-educated and spoke English, nevertheless expressed hard-line views.

Bilal Fazl, 18, who attends a university in Karachi, denounced Taseer, the slain provincial governor.

"He said the blasphemy law was a black law," Fazl said. "It was OK to kill him."

But he had *nothing but admiration for Qadri, whom he described as a "hero of Islam."*

___

Follow Kathy Gannon on Twitter at www.twitter.com/kathygannon

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

A good step:

https://defence.pk/threads/pemra-bans-amir-liaquat-over-hate-speech.474543/#post-9143461

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

==================================================

Based on the following order, this paragraph is particularly important, since it clearly states that "*declaring anyone as kaafir or ghaddar .... is the exclusive jurisdiction of the Parliament or the Honorable Superior Judiciary.*" Administrators of PDF and their FB and Twitter accounts should take note.


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> ==================================================
> 
> Based on the following order, this paragraph is particularly important, since it clearly states that "*declaring anyone as kaafir or ghaddar .... is the exclusive jurisdiction of the Parliament or the Honorable Superior Judiciary.*" Administrators of PDF and their FB and Twitter accounts should take note.
> 
> View attachment 372019


PEMRA is lying, i watched most of his shows and he did NOT declare anyone Kaffir, maybe i missed it but i am sure he did not call anyone Kaffir.
Secondly, i was right yesterday these extremists have connections in high places, they will get you banned if you try to expose them.
Now your chooha Jibran Nasir will come out again, he didn't show his face since last week after he was exposed.
This same PEMRA also tried to ban Orya Maqbool Jan but they could not after hundreds of people came out to support him, they had to take their decision back. I am pretty sure Amir Liaqat has pleased enough people that they will come out for him.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

PEMRA states the truth that *according to the Constitution, only Parliament and Superior Judiciary have the authority to declare anyone a kaafir or ghaddar.* Wannabe fatwa-givers should take note of that simple yet powerful statement, since violating it exposes them to legal action.


----------



## Rashid Mahmood

PEMRA is controlled by MOI, who run hand in hand with certain media groups who are unhappy that they are being targeted by ALH.

I never liked ALH, but after PEMRA banned Shahid Masood, they have done the same with ALH.

Geo can say any bullshit against the Armed forces and blame DG ISI, but nothing is ever done against them because they are buddies with ruling party.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Zibago

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> ==================================================
> 
> Based on the following order, this paragraph is particularly important, since it clearly states that "*declaring anyone as kaafir or ghaddar .... is the exclusive jurisdiction of the Parliament or the Honorable Superior Judiciary.*" Administrators of PDF and their FB and Twitter accounts should take note.
> 
> View attachment 372019


Ab gaye freedom of expression ghas leiney

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## VCheng

Incitement to murder by accusations of blasphemy is _not _a freedom of expression issue.


----------



## Zibago

Samajh gaye samajh gaye sada kuta kuta

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Khafee

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Incitement to murder by accusations of blasphemy is _not _a freedom of expression issue.



Incitement to murder, by insulting ones religion and religious figures, is _not _a freedom of expression issue either.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## VCheng

Insulting Islam is indeed against the law in Pakistan, and anybody violating the provisions of the Blasphemy Law should be presented in a court of law for due process of the charges and a valid defense, with the punishment being given if found guilty. Absolutely correct.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## I.R.A

Yes why not it should be only Parliament https://defence.pk/threads/pti-and-baboon-leagis-fight-in-national-assembly.474581/#post-9144117 or the judiciary that didn't even know they guy they are setting free has been hanged few years back ........................ after all they are most civilised and just people of us all

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zibago

But those who mock the state and glorify terrorists are promoting their ideology they do disappear all over the world

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Khafee

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> ==================================================
> 
> Based on the following order, this paragraph is particularly important, since it clearly states that "*declaring anyone as kaafir or ghaddar .... is the exclusive jurisdiction of the Parliament or the Honorable Superior Judiciary.*" Administrators of PDF and their FB and Twitter accounts should take note.
> 
> View attachment 372019



SHC in its decision has suspended Pemra's ban till next hearing (Feb. 1), the news broke on twitter whereas news channels did'nt report about the development.
https://defence.pk/threads/sindh-hi...-news-biased-pak-channels-dont-report.474805/

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

As long as due legal process continues, it is all good. In the meantime, they remain missing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

A very relevant article, even after their return:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1311107/media-judge-and-jury

*Media, judge and jury*
ZAHID HUSSAIN

_“I’ll be judge, I’ll be jury,”
Said cunning old Fury;
“I’ll try the whole cause, and condemn you to death.”_ 
— Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll

*It is deplorable that a section of the media should label the missing bloggers and all those demanding their recovery as blasphemers and traitors — something that could sound their death knell. Those targeted in this way include journalists, civil right activists, writers and even a filmmaker who won an Oscar twice.* This condemnation has been going on for a number of days, the electronic media regulators have only now taken action.

*This kind of public incitement can put lives at risk.* The spectacle outside the Karachi Press Club last week when members of a religious group tried to assault civil rights activists who were protesting against the enforced disappearances is just a glimpse of the kind of vigilantism that is being encouraged and that is on the rise throughout the country.

*The allegations against the bloggers and their supporters have continued even after the statement of the interior minister that there was no blasphemy or other charge against the missing persons.* Meanwhile, the families and friends of some of the bloggers, who disappeared three weeks ago, have firmly denied that they had any link to blasphemy-related material and to the blogs or tweets attributed to them.

*The fire of bigotry can destroy the entire social fabric.*


*Accusing anyone of blasphemy in this country is tantamount to a death warrant ie the bigots have already given their verdict and now want it executed. The forced disappearances have raised questions about the rule of law and human rights.* The government has maintained an intriguing silence over the whereabouts of the bloggers that further complicates the issue. *They must be produced before a court of law if there is any charge against them. The unlawful detentions and trial by media have only brought shame to this country.*

*Most alarming, however, is that there is an attempt to quell those voices that dare to speak out. *It is a highly dangerous game with extremely serious ramifications for the democratic process in the country. The fire of bigotry can destroy the entire social fabric. Questions are also raised about the freedom of expression and freedom of the media. But freedom of expression does not mean breaching the rights of others and inciting religious sentiment.

*Surely this is not the first time we have seen channel hosts accusing media rivals of blasphemy. *Last year, Hamza Ali Abbasi, an actor-cum-TV host, also had to face the wrath of a TV anchor during a live programme. While Abbasi was stopped from doing the programme, no action was taken against the rival anchor. Meanwhile, a female anchor of a channel had to leave her job and flee the country after being accused of blasphemy by a rival TV channel.

Even the late singer and religious TV personality Junaid Jamshed had to flee the country after being accused of making blasphemous comments during a programme. Jamshed was able to return to the country after a public apology. But many others have not been that lucky. A few years ago, the killing of two Ahmadis was attributed to similar accusations by commentators on TV.

*Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel: this maxim is aptly applied to those who take on themselves the responsibility of deciding who is a patriot and who is a traitor.* Those who embark on a witch-hunt labelling people who question their credentials and rival channels as anti-state and accuse them of working on a foreign agenda are playing with fire. Everything then becomes ‘right’ in this no-holds-barred war of the channels.

There are also those who attempt to speak on behalf of the security institutions, while questioning the patriotism of individuals. Nothing could be more damaging for our security forces that are engaged in fighting militancy and violent extremism than being unnecessarily dragged into a dirty campaign.

That also brings into question the values and professional ethics being spawned by channels that have provided some anchors the platform they need for often pursuing their own agenda. Few channels are blameless on this score, but the unprecedented bigotry and attacks being made against journalists, writers and social activists while linking them to blasphemy nowadays is the preserve of some. No one can absolve themselves of the responsibility of sponsoring such dangerous views in the race for ratings. It must be remembered that the flame of bigotry can also burn down media houses.

It is not a battle between liberals and conservatives or Islamists. The issue involves our democratic values being threatened by the dark forces of extremism. *Using religion for vested interests fuels intolerance in a society where the sectarian divide is widening.* The mushroom growth of the electronic media with no code of ethics in place and the virtually complete absence of any effective editorial control has spawned a culture of sensationalism for all to see.

The rise of the power of the electronic media works as a double-edged sword. While being the most effective means of disseminating information and for inculcating social and political awareness in all segments of society that are within its phenomenal reach, it is also often used as an instrument for disinformation and falsifying the facts.

Powerful demagogues in control of the mike, and owners of channels only interested in getting high ratings have brought into question the credibility and professionalism of the electronic media.* This new and dangerous trend of media vigilantism raises questions about the misuse of freedom of expression endangering the lives and freedom of others.* It has become much more imperative now than ever before to enforce a code of ethics to protect the hard-earned freedom of press and democratic rights.

_The writer is an author and journalist._

zhussain100@yahoo.com

Twitter: @hidhussain

_Published in Dawn, January 28th, 2017_


----------



## HAIDER

*Activist Salman Haider is 'fine and safe', says brother*
dawn.com


Prominent academic and human rights activist Salman Haider who went missing earlier this month from Islamabad is "fine and safe", his brother Zeeshan Haider confirmed to Dawn.com.

Zeeshan Haider provided no details about his brother Salman's whereabouts.

Haider was one of five who disappeared in early January from different cities, including bloggers Waqas Goraya, Aasim Saeed and Ahmed Raza Naseer, as well as Samar Abbas, head of an anti-extremism activist group in Karachi.

Haider’s whereabouts remain unclear and the fate of the other four who went missing is still unknown.

Haider was reported missing after he failed to return home on the night of Jan 6. On that night, his wife had received a text message from his number, telling her the location of his car and where to recover it from.

Subsequently, a case was registered under Section 365 of the Pakistan Penal Code, which deals with “kidnapping or abducting with intent secretly and wrongfully to confine a person”, at the Loi Bher police station.

Police said the FIR was registered on the basis of a complaint lodged by his brother Zeeshan.

In 2014, when sectarian killings were rife, Haider had penned a poem titled ‘Kafir’, which quickly went viral on social media. The poem critiqued the intolerance prevailing in the country and quickly garnered critical acclaim.

Salman Haider is a lecturer at the Fatima Jinnah Women University (FJWU) in Rawalpindi, an actor, writer and a human rights activist.

Talking to Dawn earlier this month, Haider’s wife Sana had said her husband had no enmity with anyone, nor had he received any threats. When asked about his activism, she had said: “He does as much as others are doing."


----------



## VCheng

"Fine and safe" is good, but _where _is he? Who took him? Why? Where are the others?


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> "Fine and safe" is good, but _where _is he? Who took him? Why? Where are the others?


he is hiding from the authorities, or his family is being asked for ransom money.



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> "Fine and safe" is good, but _where _is he? Who took him? Why? Where are the others?


*ISLAMABAD: Finance Minister Ishaq Dar Saturday said there would be no compromise on the dignity and respect of Last Prophet Muhammad (Peace be Upon Him).*

Addressing the “Khatam-e-Nabuwat Conference”, organized by the custodians of Golra Sharif Shrine here, he said*,”We can sacrifice our lives, wealth and everything we possess, for the dignity and respect of the Holy Prophet (PBUH).”*

He said there would be no change in the blasphemy law as *Pakistan came into being in the name of Allah and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Pakistan was the only country whose foundation was laid on Islam and Kalma Tayyaba.*

Dar said no one could deny that the Holy Quran is the last book revealed by the Almighty and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is the last Prophet, and it is part of the faith of every Muslim.

*“We will sacrifice our lives but make no compromise on the respect and dignity of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH),” *he vowed.

Dar said Muslims could succeed in this life and the life hereafter only by following the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

He said the people, who were disloyal and betrayed the country, had vanished as Pakistan itself was a blessing of Allah, who gifted it to the Muslims because of their love for the Prophet (PBUH).

*Thus there was need to make the country a fort of Islam* and for which all would have to work together day and and night in accordance with the teachings of the Last Prophet (PBUH), he added.

Ishaq Dar said the objective of *Pakistan becoming a nuclear power was for the defence of Muslim Ummah *and it would play its leadership role for the progress and development of all the Islamic countries.

The minister appreciated the Custodian of the Golra Shrine for organizing the conference following the footsteps of his forefathers.

The conference was an annual programme held at the Shrine which had been initiated by the Pir of Golra Syed Mahir Ali Shah to falsify claims of a liar about prophethood during his time, he added.

Religious scholars and Ulema from across the country and abroad, including India, Afghanistan, the United Kingdom and United Arab Emirates attended the event. – APP

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Spring Onion

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> "Fine and safe" is good, but _where _is he? Who took him? Why? Where are the others?


the news says all the bhensa saga people have returned. Now the onus is on them to come to the media name their abductors after all your christian fair went to your State department hence these four should not be feeling unsafe.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

Let us see what new information comes to light about their disappearances.


----------



## VCheng

Apparently, as of now, the missing activists have called home, but they have still not been allowed to return home by their abductors.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Spring Onion

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Apparently, as of now, the missing activists have called home, but they have still not been allowed to return home by their abductors.



*Factually one of the so called disappeared person Mr. Asim has not only returned home on Saturday and as per his family quickly left and then the next day he sent a text to his family that he was safe and sound somewhere in Germany or Singapore*  

mehhhhhhhhhhhh what a quick evacuation 

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1310513/third-missing-pakistani-activist-safe-family/

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

So he is still allowed to live in his own home with his family, or not? Presumably, his departure record confirms his leaving?


----------



## Spring Onion

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> So he is still allowed to live in his own home with his family, or not? Presumably, his departure record confirms his leaving?



Ask his family . This is what his family claims not me or media. The media report quoted his family as saying he was either in Germany or Singapore.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

If the family is speaking freely without fear for their own safety ........


----------



## Spring Onion

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> If the family is speaking freely without fear for their own safety ........



They quoted a text from their son so they can go to the court and the court can order tracking the communication lines to determine if they were speaking due to fear or freely.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

Except that there does not seem to be a proper process moving ahead in the courts.


----------



## Spring Onion

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Except that there does not seem to be a proper process moving ahead in the courts.



Lolzz i wonder whom you are addressing when replying.

Anyways the fact is that there is no process currently moving in the courts about this particular case neither the government filed any nor the liberals not even the religious ones. So there is no question of proper or improper process.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

Except that the abductions were _illegal_, no matter who effected it. Those _criminals _must be brought to justice.


----------



## Bratva

A certain american individual while enjoying all the amenities of american lifestyle criticizing Due process here in Pakistan and is becoming Hussain Haaqan Version 2 to drag Pakistani security institutions in not so subtle manner. 

This individual was nowhere to be found when this scandal was reported in america and discussed in PDF

*Homan Square revealed: how Chicago police 'disappeared' 7,000 people*



*Exclusive:* Guardian lawsuit exposes fullest scale yet of detentions at off-the-books interrogation warehouse, while attorneys describe find-your-client chase across Chicago as ‘something from a Bond movie’

*Chicago police detained thousands of black Americans at interrogation facility*
*Special report*: Guardian lawsuit reveals overwhelming racial disparity at Homan Square, where detainees are still held for minor crimes with little access to the outside world, despite police denials that site is an anomaly

*22 detainees told the Guardian that they were held for hours or days on end. Many were physically beaten during interrogations. Some were denied phone calls to their families.*
*
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...secret-interrogation-center-article-1.2404256
*
Continue to enjoy his "Fake and hypocritic concerns about Pakistan". He is only here to take dig at Pakistani institutions because I dont want to say it because it's his own story to tell but he has a personal grudge against PAF or PA I believe. I hope one day he tells us the story of why the grudge started against them and what did they do to him

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Solomon2

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Except that the abductions were _illegal_, no matter who effected it. Those _criminals _must be brought to justice.


They won't be brought to justice because Pakistan isn't a civilized country - i.e., one ruled by civil law.


----------



## Bratva

Solomon2 said:


> They won't be brought to justice because Pakistan isn't a civilized country - i.e., one ruled by civil law.



Welcome to the party for ignoring illegal detentions in Chicago.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Skywalker

Spring Onion said:


> Lolzz i wonder whom you are addressing when replying.
> 
> Anyways the fact is that there is no process currently moving in the courts about this particular case neither the government filed any nor the liberals not even the religious ones. So there is no question of proper or improper process.


Jana Ji why are you wasting your energy on this sell out aka champion of freedom of speech, idiot trying to teach us about rule of law...Hun.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

"about 75% of the arrestees taken to Homan were eventually charged with drug crimes"

The process still works, and those who think they were held without due process have access to courts for redress.

See the difference?



Solomon2 said:


> They won't be brought to justice because Pakistan isn't a civilized country - i.e., one ruled by civil law.



As long as a democratic government is in place, the Constitution remains in force, and that makes Pakistan ruled by civil law by definition. It is however, imperfect, just like all other countries:

https://defence.pk/threads/115-charged-with-burning-christians’-homes-acquitted.475122/


----------



## Bratva

Hypocrisy knows no bound when the thing is about America. Illegal Detentions = Halal in America because they led to 75 percent conviction rate. 

While in Pakistan Illegal = Haram Why ? Because ISI, Pakistan army Pakistani establishment is involved here somehow and I've a grudge against them.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Solomon2

Bratva said:


> Hypocrisy knows no bound when the thing is about America. Illegal Detentions = Halal in America because they led to 75 percent conviction rate.


The Homan Square stuff appears to have been "false news": link

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

All that news report shows are _allegations_. Some detainees at Homan have made allegations that will be presented in court for due process to work. That is the important point.


----------



## Bratva

Solomon2 said:


> The Homan Square stuff appears to have been "false news": link



LOL.... And what is the proof here these so called bloggers were apprehended by establishment instead of disappearing at their own accord ? S when it comes to america, Strawmen logic comes appearing in full force and when it comes to Pakistan, every rumor presumption fairy tail, anonymous sources are taken as a God given Fact and holy truth.

Who was taken to task for the Illegal detentions in Chicago ? Was any bigwig investigated for this ?


While the hypocrites term Chicago scandal as allegations while at the same time terming allegations of Social bloggers as absolute truth

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## VCheng

The only thing that can be established that the abductors - whoever they are, unknown at this point - did in fact commit a _crime_.

Now where is the due process to apprehend those _criminals_, whoever they might be?


----------



## Solomon2

> Who was taken to task for the Illegal detentions in Chicago ?


It's not clear to me from the news reports, but there don't seem to have been "illegal" detentions. Detainees who asked for a lawyer or doctor were transferred to other facilities more suited for lawyer-client interviews and medical attention than a public police evidence locker.



Bratva said:


> .. when it comes to Pakistan, every rumor presumption fairy tail, anonymous sources are taken as a God given Fact and holy truth.


The fact that there are few operating checks-and-balances in Pakistan does make pro-Pakistani PR more difficult. The solution is for Pakistan to implement greater transparency and accountability.


----------



## Spring Onion

*Freed bloggers leave country amid safety concerns*
By AFP
Published: January 30, 2017
30SHARES
SHARE TWEET EMAIL
ISLAMABAD: Two bloggers who vanished earlier this month have left the country fearing for their safety, relatives told _AFP_ on Monday, following a virulent media campaign painting them as blasphemers.

They were among five men who went missing from various cities in Pakistan. Four of the five who had stood against religious intolerance and criticised Pakistan’s military have been freed, their families said. They would not comment on where the men had been held.

*Third missing activist found, flees country fearing for life: family*

Their disappearances triggered nationwide protests and raised concerns of government involvement — claims denied by officials. Allegations on social media networks Facebook and Twitter and by right-wing TV hosts that the missing men were blasphemers has triggered a flood of threats despite denials from their worried families.

The allegation can be fatal in Pakistan, where at least 17 people remain on death row for blasphemy.

Liaqat Ali Goraya, the father of blogger Waqas Goraya, confirmed to _AFP_ that his son was safe and had left the country. But his nephew Abdur Rahman Cheema, whose disappearance at the same time as his son was not reported to the media, was still missing.

“Waqas has gone, we’ve sent him abroad,” said his father, declining to comment on who had held him. Before he went missing, Goraya was based in The Netherlands and had returned to Pakistan for a family wedding. A source close to the family of blogger Asim Saeed confirmed he too had left the country.

His father, Ghulam Haider Akbar, told _AFP_ the family had received death threats purporting to come from the anti-Shia Laskhar-e-Jhangvi group. “You who have blasphemed deserve death. You are out of Islam and should be ready for a painful punishment, which will be remembered by your generations to come,” a text message said, according to Akbar.

A relative of a third blogger, who asked to remain anonymous, said both he and his family had left their home town and were in hiding. “We are going to think about it for a few days and assess the situation. If it seems ok, we’ll return, else we’ll try to go abroad,” the relative said.

*Salman Haider ‘recovered safe and sound’*

Zeeshan Haider said his brother, poet and activist Salman Haider, was “fine and safe”. The whereabouts of the fifth man remain unknown.

Rights groups have long criticised the colonial-era blasphemy legislation as a vehicle for personal vendettas as even unproven allegations can result in mob lynchings. A number of NGOs and observers say the online campaigns are to silence progressive voices and are carefully coordinated.

Pakistan has had a history of enforced disappearances over the past decade, but this has mainly been confined to conflict zones near the Afghanistan border or to Balochistan province where separatists are battling for independence.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1311590/freed-bloggers-leave-country-amid-safety-concerns/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

Meanwhile, the crackdown by the "unknown" continues:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1311656/satire-website-khabaristan-times-blocked-in-pakistan


----------



## HAIDER

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Meanwhile, the crackdown by the "unknown" continues:
> 
> http://www.dawn.com/news/1311656/satire-website-khabaristan-times-blocked-in-pakistan


Talk to few friends in Islamabad. According to em, there is no reality behind what few media channel are projecting about these bloggers. Present govt is promoting too much extremism in Pakistan. Still people don't know who kidnap these people and still not confirm , if they are free. It's common perception that Ch Nisar has full backing of defunct religious parties and they are totally unleashed and Ch Nisar also backing these extremist religious groups.


----------



## VCheng

What is quite baffling to watch is the effort being spent to demonize the bloggers, as if that would justify their abduction by the criminal party, whoever that might be. What the focus should be on is to identify the culprits so that it can be ascertained as to who those criminals are, to get them the punishment that they deserve by fair and due legal process.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Skywalker

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> What is quite baffling to watch is the effort being spent to demonize the bloggers, as if that would justify their abduction by the criminal party, whoever that might be. What the focus should be on is to identify the culprits so that it can be ascertained as to who those criminals are, to get them the punishment that they deserve by fair and due legal process.


Stop worrying about Pakistan, you should be more worried about your new beloved president Donald trump who will show your level, a third grade citizen living in states trying to be more loyal than the king himself.
You and your kinds are nothing but a joke and for them everrthing is a conspiracy in Pakistan. Keep barking.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

What is happening in USA is the topic of that _other _thread two subfora down the hall to your right. 

Let's stay on topic here. Besides, even that saga shows the importance of due process. What is legal or not will be determined by all parties concerned, according to the Constitution of the Land. Imagine that!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

http://www.dawn.com/news/1311707/crisis-of-impunity

*Crisis of impunity*
REEMA OMER 


*“THERE is a climate of impunity in Pakistan with regard to enforced disappearances, and the authorities are not sufficiently dedicated to investigate cases of enforced disappearance and hold the perpetrators accountable.”* The UN Working Group on Enforced and Involuntary Disappearances (WGEID) in September last year made this scathing assessment of Pakistan’s performance in addressing the practice of enforced disappearances in the country.

It has become a cliché to speak of a ‘climate of impunity’, but the phrase is entirely apt in describing *the situation in Pakistan, where impunity for human rights violations has become institutionalised and systemised.* It is also essential in understanding why the practice of enforced disappearances has persisted and is spreading — both in terms of geographical reach and also the categories of people being targeted.

*‘Impunity’ means the impossibility of bringing violators of serious crimes and gross human rights violations to account, *typically because there is an absence of a proper investigation that would lead to the arrest, prosecution and sentencing of those responsible.* It results in concealing the truth; denying victims the right to effective remedy and reparation; and emboldening perpetrators of human rights violations.*

*People continue to go missing.*

While there are reports that the practice of forcibly disappearing people has existed in Pakistan since at least the 1970s, such cases have been recorded in significant numbers after Pakistan became a key ally in the US-led ‘war on terror’. Since then, hundreds, many of them suspected to be associated with terrorism-related offences, have reportedly been ‘disappeared’ and detained in secret facilities. Cases of ‘disappearances’ are also reported in large numbers in Balochistan against political activists, students and journalists, particularly those perceived as sympathetic to separatist movements in the province. In recent years, there has been a rise in cases of enforced disappearances in Sindh, where largely political activists have been targeted.

*Enforced disappearances have now become a national phenomenon:* in August 2015, Zeenat Shahzadi became one of the first women victims, and recently a number of bloggers and activists were ‘disappeared’. Efforts to bring perpetrators of enforced disappearances to justice, however, have failed at all levels.

The National Commission of Human Rights does not have jurisdiction over the intelligence apparatus and can only make recommendations where members of the security forces have allegedly violated rights. The Commission of Inquiry on Enforced Disappearances keeps a record of reported enforced disappearances and ‘traces’ the whereabouts of ‘missing’ people, but has failed to take any action where such individuals are found in the custody of security agencies. Courts have played an important role in highlighting and condemning enforced disappearances, but have largely confined their role to recovering ‘disappeared’ people, not bringing perpetrators to account.

Even where courts have actively pursued such cases, loopholes in the legal system have allowed culprits to evade responsibility. Muhabbat Shah, a case involving the enforced disappearance of 28 people from a Malakand internment centre, is a telling illustration.* In December 2013, the Supreme Court ruled that “no law enforcing agency can forcibly detain a person without showing his whereabouts to his relatives for a long period” and that those responsible for the enforced disappearances should be dealt with “strictly in accordance with law”.* The government responded by filing a review of the judgement, asking the court to delete remarks implicating the agencies as such findings could “demoralise the troops”.

In March 2014, after repeated court orders, the defence minister lodged FIRs for wrongful confinement against some military officers allegedly responsible for the ‘disappearances’. However, KP reportedly referred the matter to the military for further investigation and possible trial under the Army Act, 1952. Since military trials are secret and not open to the public, what became of the case is not known.

*If Pakistan is to stop the practice of enforced disappearances, it must start bringing those responsible for this practice to justice.* At the minimum, this would require recognising enforced disappearance as an autonomous offence (and until such time, prosecuting such acts under existing laws); empowering independent institutions like the NCHR to investigate cases of alleged disappearances, notwithstanding the identity of the perpetrators; ensuring cases of serious human rights violations are only tried by civilian courts, including where members of the security apparatus are allegedly responsible; and as recommended by the WGEID, enacting “clear rules and dedicated institutions … to ensure the oversight and accountability of law enforcement and intelligence agencies”.

*This crisis of impunity must end, not only to bring justice to victims and their families, but also to avoid irreparable damage to the rule of law in the country.*

_The writer is a legal adviser for the International Commission of Jurists._

_Published in Dawn January 31st, 2017_

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## punit

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> http://www.dawn.com/news/1311707/crisis-of-impunity
> 
> *Crisis of impunity*
> REEMA OMER
> 
> 
> *“THERE is a climate of impunity in Pakistan with regard to enforced disappearances, and the authorities are not sufficiently dedicated to investigate cases of enforced disappearance and hold the perpetrators accountable.”* The UN Working Group on Enforced and Involuntary Disappearances (WGEID) in September last year made this scathing assessment of Pakistan’s performance in addressing the practice of enforced disappearances in the country.
> 
> It has become a cliché to speak of a ‘climate of impunity’, but the phrase is entirely apt in describing *the situation in Pakistan, where impunity for human rights violations has become institutionalised and systemised.* It is also essential in understanding why the practice of enforced disappearances has persisted and is spreading — both in terms of geographical reach and also the categories of people being targeted.
> 
> *‘Impunity’ means the impossibility of bringing violators of serious crimes and gross human rights violations to account, *typically because there is an absence of a proper investigation that would lead to the arrest, prosecution and sentencing of those responsible.* It results in concealing the truth; denying victims the right to effective remedy and reparation; and emboldening perpetrators of human rights violations.*
> 
> *People continue to go missing.*
> 
> While there are reports that the practice of forcibly disappearing people has existed in Pakistan since at least the 1970s, such cases have been recorded in significant numbers after Pakistan became a key ally in the US-led ‘war on terror’. Since then, hundreds, many of them suspected to be associated with terrorism-related offences, have reportedly been ‘disappeared’ and detained in secret facilities. Cases of ‘disappearances’ are also reported in large numbers in Balochistan against political activists, students and journalists, particularly those perceived as sympathetic to separatist movements in the province. In recent years, there has been a rise in cases of enforced disappearances in Sindh, where largely political activists have been targeted.
> 
> *Enforced disappearances have now become a national phenomenon:* in August 2015, Zeenat Shahzadi became one of the first women victims, and recently a number of bloggers and activists were ‘disappeared’. Efforts to bring perpetrators of enforced disappearances to justice, however, have failed at all levels.
> 
> The National Commission of Human Rights does not have jurisdiction over the intelligence apparatus and can only make recommendations where members of the security forces have allegedly violated rights. The Commission of Inquiry on Enforced Disappearances keeps a record of reported enforced disappearances and ‘traces’ the whereabouts of ‘missing’ people, but has failed to take any action where such individuals are found in the custody of security agencies. Courts have played an important role in highlighting and condemning enforced disappearances, but have largely confined their role to recovering ‘disappeared’ people, not bringing perpetrators to account.
> 
> Even where courts have actively pursued such cases, loopholes in the legal system have allowed culprits to evade responsibility. Muhabbat Shah, a case involving the enforced disappearance of 28 people from a Malakand internment centre, is a telling illustration.* In December 2013, the Supreme Court ruled that “no law enforcing agency can forcibly detain a person without showing his whereabouts to his relatives for a long period” and that those responsible for the enforced disappearances should be dealt with “strictly in accordance with law”.* The government responded by filing a review of the judgement, asking the court to delete remarks implicating the agencies as such findings could “demoralise the troops”.
> 
> In March 2014, after repeated court orders, the defence minister lodged FIRs for wrongful confinement against some military officers allegedly responsible for the ‘disappearances’. However, KP reportedly referred the matter to the military for further investigation and possible trial under the Army Act, 1952. Since military trials are secret and not open to the public, what became of the case is not known.
> 
> *If Pakistan is to stop the practice of enforced disappearances, it must start bringing those responsible for this practice to justice.* At the minimum, this would require recognising enforced disappearance as an autonomous offence (and until such time, prosecuting such acts under existing laws); empowering independent institutions like the NCHR to investigate cases of alleged disappearances, notwithstanding the identity of the perpetrators; ensuring cases of serious human rights violations are only tried by civilian courts, including where members of the security apparatus are allegedly responsible; and as recommended by the WGEID, enacting “clear rules and dedicated institutions … to ensure the oversight and accountability of law enforcement and intelligence agencies”.
> 
> *This crisis of impunity must end, not only to bring justice to victims and their families, but also to avoid irreparable damage to the rule of law in the country.*
> 
> _The writer is a legal adviser for the International Commission of Jurists._
> 
> _Published in Dawn January 31st, 2017_


After effects ARE SPILLING IN THE FORUM!


----------



## VCheng

punit said:


> After effects ARE SPILLING IN THE FORUM!



PDF cannot be but a microcosm of Pakistan itself, including on the topic of this thread.


----------



## punit

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> PDF cannot be but a microcosm of Pakistan itself, including on the topic of this thread.


but now a days new joiners are openly abusing Ahamadi Muslims and threatening to kill the so called supporters of blasphemy. In one thread some chaps are openly praising killer of late Mr Taseer.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

punit said:


> but now a days new joiners are openly abusing Ahamadi Muslims and threatening to kill the so called supporters of blasphemy. In one thread some chaps are openly praising killer of late Mr Taseer.



As I said, PDF is a microcosm of the real Pakistan, the good, the bad, and the ugly, all of it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Respect4Respect01

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> What is quite baffling to watch is the effort being spent to demonize the bloggers, as if that would justify their abduction by the criminal party, whoever that might be. What the focus should be on is to identify the culprits so that it can be ascertained as to who those criminals are, to get them the punishment that they deserve by fair and due legal process.


enough with your double standards already, the biggest issue here is why those people created those pages, and why are they still not arrested and why the corrupt government did not register cases against them.


----------



## haviZsultan

punit said:


> but now a days new joiners are openly abusing Ahamadi Muslims and threatening to kill the so called supporters of blasphemy. In one thread some chaps are openly praising killer of late Mr Taseer.


We will deal with our problems. India too has problems like this with a terrorist PM and beef ban. We are distant cousins, India and us and many of us unfortunately have the same conservative mindset. Its unfortunate that people decipher and judge Islam so narrow mindedly but as I said we aren't the only people with this problem.


----------



## VCheng

As part of due process, cases have indeed been registered:

https://defence.pk/threads/fia-books-salman-haider-others-in-blasphemy-case.475546/

Let the process continue as specified by law.


----------



## VCheng

Another thought-provoking article on the issue of manipulated vigilantism and tolerating dissent:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1312203/the-vigilante-menace

*The vigilante menace*
I.A. REHMAN

THE call by the office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights to seriously tackle the new wave of xenophobia, racism and intolerance, witnessed recently in Europe and the US, has a special relevance to Pakistan as the threat to this country from the vigilante brigade is assuming new dimensions.

*Vigilante action was relatively unknown in Pakistan until Gen Ziaul Haq decided to empower state functionaries to force Muslim citizens to perform their religious rituals. The scheme died with him.* The effort by the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal to revive it in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa through a hisba law was scotched by the judiciary. *However, the ultra-conservative extremists discovered the possibilities of vigilante action* while promoting the enforcement of Gen Zia’s additions to the Penal Code list of offences relating to religion.

They began by reporting to the police what they claimed to be offences under Sections 295 to 298 of the PPC. Since those charged under these sections faced greater hazards than the accused booked under any other law (until anti-terrorism laws became the most dreaded measures), these provisions began to be invoked for settling personal scores or to deprive one’s rivals of their property or business advantage.

Thus, *vigilante action took two forms. One, complaints were filed with the police for action under the provisions mentioned above, all of which were quite wrongly given the label of the blasphemy law. Secondly, courts began to be gheraoed by highly charged crowds when such cases were heard. While most of these cases in the beginning were against non-Muslim citizens, the logic of the discriminatory laws and the possibilities of their abuse resulted in the targeting of Muslims too*, from social scientist Akhtar Hamid Khan to political leaders including Benazir Bhutto. Now these laws are also used as weapons in intra-Muslim sectarian conflicts. Today, more Muslims, including prayer leaders, are facing blasphemy charges than non-Muslims.

*Many people suspect that the zealots are commanded by someone in authority.*


*Until recently, the vigilante groups had concentrated on persecuting the members of the Ahmadi community and the Hazaras of Quetta. *Professional Ahmadi-baiters soon entered the field. At one time, a majority of complaints against Ahmadis in Sindh were filed by a single preacher in a town near Hyderabad. The offences varied from writing ‘Bismillah’ in a private letter to preaching the Ahmadi faith. These complaints ended when the complainant was promoted and posted in a bigger city.

In Punjab too, several professionals won distinction for targeting Ahmadis who were merely delivering their monthly paper, duly registered, to subscribers, or who had made the mistake of buying a goat in the days preceding Eidul Azha. The latter were accused of planning to offer a sacrifice on Eid. In one case, the police not only hauled up an Ahmadi for slaughtering a lamb, but also used the mutton recovered from his house as case property. One of the biggest feats of the anti-Ahmadi vigilante group was frightening the chief election commissioner in 2002 into registering the Ahmadis on a separate list while other voters were being put on a single electoral roll regardless of their belief.

These were relatively underdeveloped vigilantes as compared to their more recent incarnations, some of whom have taken to liquidating their victims themselves while some others hold rallies against anyone expressing views the establishment does not like.

*One such group surfaced after five bloggers disappeared involuntarily and the police received a complaint of blasphemy allegedly committed by them. Rallies were held by mobs in Lahore and several other places, calling for the deaths of the ‘missing persons’.* The manoeuvre was apparently too crude to be swallowed by the interior minister, who dismissed all speculation as premature.

*Nobody stopped these vigilante groups. Instead, the police blocked roads to ensure the traffic did not disturb them. *This perhaps emboldened the vigilante brigade to target two journalists who are also prominent TV figures. One of them is accused of crossing the red line drawn by the doyens of religiosity, and the other for daring to ask some questions about the establishment’s privileges. Rallies have been held by young men, who look like students, to demand putting the two journalists on the rack.

*Many people suspect that these zealots are commanded by someone in authority. This impression receives support from the fact that these agitators have never taken up a public grievance — from unannounced stoppage of electricity or gas supplies, to the rape of five-year-old girls, to the sale of substandard stents — and they viciously attack citizens who are guilty only of expressing dissent, which is their constitutional right. One hopes this impression about any official patronage of vigilantism is wrong and will be dispelled by appropriate government action to neutralise it.*

*But mischief has already been done. *Through issuing threats on phone or instigation of violence against their targets, the *vigilante groups are creating a climate of all-pervasive fear. The people will be under pressure not only to give up their right to freedom of expression but also to stop thinking or reflecting on their condition. There will be no discourse worth the name, and society will be reduced to a horde of morons.*

*The government has traditionally hesitated from proceeding against vigilante groups because they use a religious cover. There is nothing religious about their objectives or their conduct.* The whole thing is political. One proof of this is their aversion to any scholarly debate on their heresy and forcing of ulema who disagree with them into exile or retirement at home. What the government must realise is that the visible targets of vigilante action are pawns in a game in which the real target is the state and the system that it swears by. *While the vigilante brigade is a threat to individual victims, it is a menace to the state. The harm it could do is incalculable.*

_Published in Dawn February 2nd, 2017_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

A possible solution?

http://www.dawn.com/news/1312952/ending-enforced-disappearances

*Ending enforced disappearances*
FAISAL SIDDIQI — 

ON the issue of enforced disappearances or missing persons, a kind of media civil war is going on, with the human rights lobby and liberals pitted against the military elite and its intelligence agencies. *The human rights lobby and liberals accuse the intelligence agencies of engaging in the immoral, illegal and unconstitutional practice of enforced disappearances with ill intention and impunity. For their part, the military elite and its intelligence agencies accuse the human rights lobby and liberals of, at best, not understanding the necessity of this practice to safeguard national security and, at worst, of acting on a foreign agenda. *The two groups question each other’s intentions and neither is willing to accept that both may actually be right in part.

*What if the military and intelligence elites are right that detention without trial for a reasonably longer time period is essential in the fight against militancy and foreign espionage and that such detention is not possible within the current legal framework? And, what if the disclosure of the truth by the intelligence agencies about missing persons is not possible without legal and constitutional immunity? On the other hand, what if the human rights lobby is also right that enforced disappearances is a destructive practice, not only for a modern constitutional state but also for the national and international reputation and morale of the military elite and intelligence agencies?*

Can these opposite positions be reconciled?

Hypocrisy vs denial: With the exception of the principled position taken against all enforced disappearances by the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, there is a general hypocrisy pervading liberal sections of Pakistani society on this issue. How many liberals have condemned or protested or written about the enforced disappearances of Islamic militants and their sympathisers by the same intelligence agencies? Are they willing to recognise that the overall majority of the disappeared are Islamist militants and their sympathisers and not Baloch activists or liberal bloggers?

*What if the military and intelligence agencies are right about detention without trial?*


*How many liberals are willing to accept that the allegations of Baloch activists that there are 12,000 to 14,000 Baloch missing persons is political propaganda* because according to the Commission of Inquiry on Enforced Disappearances (as on December 2015) a total of 3,012 cases were filed, out of which 1,449 have been traced, and even out of 1,390 pending cases, only 125 relate to Balochistan? Even if these figures about Balochistan are underestimated, there is no data showing that the number of Baloch enforced disappearances is more than a couple of hundred. Such hypocrisy is an obstacle to recognising that actually there is societal consensus, among liberals and Islamists, to end all enforced disappearances.

*As for the intelligence agencies, can they deny that they have engaged in enforced disappearances in view of the following facts?* Firstly, two official Commissions of Inquiry on Enforced Disappearances, in which both the ISI and MI participated, recognised enforced disappearances. Secondly, the report of a Federal Task Force on Missing Persons, of which both agencies were a part, also recognised enforced disappearances. Thirdly, the Supreme Court judgements in the ‘Muhabat Shah’ case and ‘Law and Order Case on Balochistan’ recognised enforced disappearances. Fourthly, an official ISI statement, attached as Appendix I to the book The ISI of Pakistan by Hein G. Kiessling, recognises the practice of enforced disappearances and details efforts made to solve it. Therefore, denial of enforced disappearances by the security apparatus in 2017 is like living in an alternative Trumpian world of invented but fictional ‘facts’.

*Ambiguity leads to impunity*: Whether it is the operations in the tribal areas or in Karachi or elsewhere, is it not an open secret that one of the key anti-militant strategies adopted by the intelligence agencies is enforced disappearances? There is universal praise by the liberals for Operation Zarb-i-Azb even though it is well documented that this ‘war on terror’ has also involved large-scale unjustified arrests, torture, enforced disappearances and extra-judicial killings. It is this ambiguity of response in not condemning the enforced disappearances of Islamic militants or lukewarm condemnations of the enforced disappearances of MQM militants that both confuses, and provides justification, leading to the rigid approach of the intelligences agencies to continue these practices with impunity.

*Towards a compromise: Does our political elite or the parliamentarians know that there are consensus recommendations (ie consented to by both the civilian and military establishment) of the Federal Task Force on Missing Persons gathering dust in the interior ministry? And that there is a draft law on enforced disappearances lying with Nacta based on these consensus recommendations?*

*The solutions proposed are controversial but realistic.* Firstly, we need to rethink the current detention framework under Article 10 of the Constitution; we need more flexible detention laws allowing long-term detention of suspects without trial. Yes, this is not ideal but this will radically diminish illegal detentions/enforced disappearances, torture and at times, extrajudicial killings as a consequence of such enforced disappearances. *Without such flexible detention laws, intelligence agencies will not end enforced disappearances.*

Secondly, *once flexible detentions laws are in force, criminal prosecutions should immediately follow any future cases of enforced disappearances.*

Thirdly, *there should be legal immunity for intelligence agency officials and other state officials for making full disclosures about missing persons, especially people missing for many years. *Moreover, compensation should be paid to the victims of enforced disappearances.

Fourthly, *an independent tribunal is needed for deciding enforced disappearances cases with powers to take action against any state official engaged in the practice and with power to award compensation to the victims.*

The issue of enforced disappearances is a difficult moral and political one, and we should have the courage to recognise that there are no choices between good and bad solutions in such difficult issues. Rather, the choices are between bad and worse solutions. Therefore, *we must make these tough choices.*

_The writer is a lawyer._

_Published in Dawn February 6th, 2017_


----------



## VCheng

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/06/opinion/the-disappeared-pakistan.html

*The Disappeared, Pakistan*





Mohammed Hanif FEB. 6, 2017


KARACHI, Pakistan — Every few weeks I get a phone call or text message informing me that yet another journalist, political activist or someone hyperactive on social media has gone missing. From past experience I know that they have most likely been picked up by one of the secret agencies. I also know that when they return they’ll be changed people.

When they disappear, they are opinionated and noisy; they believe their 800-word op-ed or their Facebook post or the poem that went viral will change the world. When they return, they have become the sort of people who will say, it was nice knowing you, why don’t you shut up and go away?

It’s as if they weren’t abducted by the state and kept in a dungeon or a safe house, probably interrogated, in some cases tortured, and always threatened. It’s like they went to some rehab program from which they have come back fully reformed and compliant.

In the past year, hundreds of political activists in Karachi have been picked up, and some renounced their loyalties upon their return. They leave the country if they can; otherwise, they try to become unquestioning citizens. Maybe they are right. What good has ever come of talking about state abduction and torture and solitary confinement?

A number of character flaws can make you a missing person. Maybe you have not cursed India enough for its atrocities in Kashmir. Maybe you belong to a religious militant group. Maybe you are too fond of questioning the army’s role in the country’s affairs. Maybe you criticize the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, a grand network of roads and bridges that is supposed to transform our fortunes. Or maybe you just protest too much about other missing persons.

Five social-media activists disappeared recently. They were little known outside their own social-media bubbles. They were gone for almost three weeks, and during their absence, a slew of tweets and pro-army Facebook pages claimed that some of them had been posting material that insulted our religion.

Blasphemy is a killer charge. Any word or action that is seen to cause offense to any religious group — in fact, anything construed as insulting a religious figure — can make you an open target for religious zealots. Calling someone a blasphemer is a blood sport.

Pakistan’s interior minister went on record to discourage such accusations against the five missing activists. But these charges have built-in momentum. Once accused of blasphemy you can’t really ward that off: How do you defend yourself against a charge that can’t be repeated in public? What exactly is it that you didn’t do?

Imagine getting released after a few weeks in a dungeon and re-entering the world only to see people on national television demanding your head and religious parties on street corners waiting to lynch you. First, you were disappeared by the state; then when you are released, you feel forced to disappear from public life.

It’s not just that the state is stifling dissent; it’s also making everyone wonder: Have I crossed the line? Where was that line? How come that other person crossed every line of decency and still has a TV show?

And it’s not only the state and its intelligence agencies waging war on common sense; the media and other civil institutions are as well.

Aamir Liaquat Hussain, one of Pakistan’s leading television preachers, has turned into a political analyst and in a series of nightly programs, accused the missing activists of having committed blasphemy. Then he said they had defected to India. Then he singled out a number of Pakistani journalists who had spoken out for the missing, and accused them, too, of blasphemy. Mr. Hussain has worked for almost all the major channels, usually as one of their top earners. He puts lives in danger, and media owners bid for him.

ARY Network, a Pakistani TV station, recently lost a libel suit in London brought by a rival it had accused of committing blasphemy and being an Indian agent. Its defense in court: Nobody really takes our TV anchor seriously.

Never mind that when one journalist accuses another of blasphemy, he only exposes himself more to being targeted for the same thing.

A journalist friend recently told me about being picked up and taken to a safe house for a so-called debrief about his work. Three good, patriotic men from an intelligence agency told him they knew everything about his children’s school, his wife’s job, his father’s career. He was told that there were two kinds of troublemakers in this country: foreign agents and fools.

“We have seen your bank accounts and you are nobody’s agent. You appear to be a mere fool,” they told him. The message was clear: Stop being a fool. We know which school your kids go to.

I submitted an Urdu translation of one of my novels to a leading publisher a while ago. Through a mutual friend I was asked to change a few things, just to be on the safe side. Nothing was specified. I respectfully inquired what bits I should change. You are intelligent enough, I was told; you live here, you should know.

That’s the scary part, I don’t really know if I am intelligent or a fool.


=============================================================
_Mohammed Hanif is the author of the novels “A Case of Exploding Mangoes” and “Our Lady of Alice Bhatti,” and the librettist for the opera “Bhutto.”

A version of this op-ed appears in print on February 7, 2017, in The International New York Times. _

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

http://www.dawn.com/news/1313745/ab...s-silence-we-want-a-pakistan-with-rule-of-law

*Abducted Pakistani blogger breaks silence: 'We want a Pakistan with rule of law'*
AFP — 

*An activist abducted last month has broken his silence on his weeks-long disappearance, but is refusing to point fingers at who his abductors were.*

Ahmad Waqas Goraya was among five activists who vanished in Pakistan in early January.

Human Rights Watch, opposition lawmakers and activists have said their near simultaneous abductions pointed to government involvement in a country with a history of enforced disappearances.

Goraya was freed at the end of January along with at least three others and swiftly fled back to the Netherlands, where he has lived for the last decade.

"I felt I would never come back, I would never see my son and family," the 34-year-old told AFP during a phone interview in which he frequently became agitated.

*Goraya, who like the other activists criticised religious extremism and the military establishment, refused to say anything about his captors or describe what happened during his ordeal.

But he angrily rejected accusations that he was a traitor for daring to be vocal about alleged abuses of power in Pakistan, insisting he was a true patriot.

"Nothing was against Pakistan, nothing was against Islam, I was critical of policies because I want to see a better Pakistan," he said, adding in a later message: "We want a Pakistan with rule of law."*

Goraya also said he fears a virulent ultra right-wing campaign to paint him as a blasphemer while he was missing has followed him to Europe.

The charge, which engulfed Pakistani social media and was repeated by mainstream television hosts, is an incendiary one that can carry the death penalty. Even unproven allegations have caused mob lynchings and violence.

At least 65 people including lawyers, judges and activists have been murdered by vigilantes over blasphemy allegations since 1990, according to the Center for Research and Security Studies.

Goraya said allegations of blasphemy had surfaced on social media sites frequented by the Pakistani community in the Netherlands, prompting him to seek police advice.

"I'm looking over my shoulder ─ I have been warned by people it is a crazy world."

*Silencing dissent*


Pakistan has had a history of enforced disappearances over the past decade, but they have mainly been confined to conflict zones near the Afghanistan border or to Balochistan, where separatists are battling for independence.

*Campaigners and opposition politicians believe the disappearances in January were part of a strategy to stamp out criticism and dissent online.*

Officials have denied any role in the disappearances, which sparked protests in cities across Pakistan by progressives concerned that the space for free speech is shrinking.

But, Goraya said, *they have had their intended effect.*

*"Hundreds of our friends deactivated their (social media) accounts, their pages," Goraya said, adding that well-known liberal blog 'Roshni' (whose name means “light” in Urdu) was among those deleted, despite the fact its administrator was based in London.*

His three-year-old son, meanwhile, has been deeply traumatised by his father's weeks-long disappearance and its impact on his family.

"What can you tell a three-year-old kid, all he can see are his mother and grandparents screaming and crying," Goraya said.

He described how the once quiet child now lashes out. "He's yelling and slapping and beating ─ that's what I would say is the worst loss I suffer."

Goraya said he has spent almost a decade in the Netherlands but had come to Pakistan in late 2016 to gauge the possibility of returning to Lahore with his family.

"I could have applied for Dutch citizenship after five years but we never went that way ─ it would mean giving up my Pakistani passport," he said.

"The plan was to move permanently back to Pakistan. But now we have to replan our whole life."

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## VCheng

http://www.dawn.com/news/1314164/fa...ist-samar-abbas-petitions-ihc-for-his-release

*Family of missing activist Samar Abbas petitions IHC for his release*
SHAKEEL QARAR — 

*The family of Samar Abbas, one of the five activists picked up by unidentified individuals early this year, has petitioned the Islamabad High Court to secure his release.

The petition, filed by Samar's brother, Ash'ar Abbas, nominates the IG Islamabad, SSP FIA, intelligence agencies and the interior ministry as respondents in the case.*

The family has pleaded that the IHC order Samar's release at the earliest, ensure his safety, and ensure that he is not tortured by his abductors.

Samar was reported missing from the federal capital since January 7, 2016.

Samar's family had lodged an application with the Ramna police station on Jan 14, and an FIR was registered on Jan 15.

An activist based in Karachi who belongs to various forums that have been raising their voice against atrocities committed against minority groups in the country, Samar is also president of the Civil Progressive Alliance Pakistan (CPAP).

According to CPAP General Secretary Syed Talib Abbas, Samar had travelled to Islamabad from Karachi on business. “He was continuously in touch with his family, but on Saturday (Jan 7), his mobile phone was switched off. The family has not heard from him since,” he said.

He said Samar, 40, is married and has two children; a boy and a girl.


----------



## Zarvan

I have requested Horus to gather a team of those young people who are proud Muslims and have good knowledge of Islam and can write articles in English and Urdu to counter those liberals who write shit in Express Tribune and DAWN and other areas. I think we should start a website for that also. So guys what you have to say about it @Horus

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## VCheng

What an excellent idea!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HAIDER

Zarvan said:


> I have requested Horus to gather a team of those young people who are proud Muslims and have good knowledge of Islam and can write articles in English and Urdu to counter those liberals who write shit in Express Tribune and DAWN and other areas. I think we should start a website for that also. So guys what you have to say about it @Horus


Masla toheen e rasalat bill ka nahi haa... issue is implementation of law and abuse of this bill .


----------



## somebozo

Bhensa has been controlled...clap..clap..clapp...blast at Lahore mall road?? what about that?
Are these the priorities of intelligence agencies? to go after and nab bloggers while terrorist are given a free hand?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

Is it true that one of the five missing bloggers is sill missing?


----------



## VCheng

Samar Abbas is still missing. What is happening, if anything, in terms of efforts to recover him?


----------



## Solomon2

Zarvan said:


> I have requested Horus to gather a team of those young people who are proud Muslims and have good knowledge of Islam and can write articles in English and Urdu to counter those liberals who write shit in Express Tribune and DAWN and other areas. I think we should start a website for that also. So guys what you have to say about it






_...We have allowed our political, religious, and ideological tribalism to shape our emotional response.
Our unwillingness to hear outside our own echo chambers has severely limited our ability to innovate solutions. It is post-truth.
When new thinking on any issue is instantly labeled treacherous, only inward looking violently inbred and dogmatic ideologies such as jihadism can thrive..._​

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SQ8

Solomon2 said:


> _...We have allowed our political, religious, and ideological tribalism to shape our emotional response.
> Our unwillingness to hear outside our own echo chambers has severely limited our ability to innovate solutions. It is post-truth.
> When new thinking on any issue is instantly labeled treacherous, only inward looking violently inbred and dogmatic ideologies such as jihadism can thrive..._​


That goes both ways

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Solomon2

Oscar said:


> That goes both ways


Are you certain that aphorism applies here? People who are modest can be self-critical and thus fairly evaluate and tolerate other people's criticisms of their opinions and conduct; people with excessive pride - _hubris_ - can not. Are the "liberals" @Zarvan mentions kidnapping their ideological opponents?


----------



## Mentee

Solomon2 said:


> @Zarvan mentions kidnapping their ideological opponents?



Daesh and ttp leaders , both are ideological opponents to the state of Pakistan besides these libturds. And stop lying no where he incited private individuals to kidnap em .


----------



## Solomon2

Mentee said:


> Daesh and ttp leaders , both are ideological opponents to the state of Pakistan besides these libturds.


I agree that @Oscar's assessment that there are only two "ways" is erroneous. 



> And stop lying no where he incited private individuals to kidnap em .


One can better measure a man's attitude by his applause and boos than by what he attempts to "incite".

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## SQ8

Solomon2 said:


> Are you certain that aphorism applies here? People who are modest can be self-critical and thus fairly evaluate and tolerate other people's criticisms of their opinions and conduct; people with excessive pride - _hubris_ - can not. Are the "liberals" @Zarvan mentions kidnapping their ideological opponents?


Please do not mistake the word liberal with an automatic assumption that they are self critical 
Arrogance, ignorance and stubbornness are not characteristics to be confined or restricted to liberal or conservative views.

As for kidnapping or attacking, considering the glee expressed by the account at the misery or deaths of those who were classified as extremists or some uber conservatives makes that irrelevant

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

Solomon2 said:


> One can better measure a man's attitude by his applause and boos than by what he attempts to "incite".



Regardless of the attitudes, on display or perceived, no citizen deserves to simply "disappear" without due process of law.


----------



## Solomon2

Oscar said:


> Please do not mistake the word liberal with an automatic assumption -


That's why "liberal" is in quotes - to refer specifically to the ones @Zarvan is writing about. 



> As for kidnapping or attacking, considering the glee expressed by the account at the misery or deaths of those who were classified as extremists or some uber conservatives makes that irrelevant


Please be more specific.


----------



## SQ8

Solomon2 said:


> That's why "liberal" is in quotes - to refer specifically to the ones @Zarvan is writing about.
> 
> Please be more specific.


Then specifically those ones do need to be questioned for what they write without basis and blasphemous content

I have no time to repeat specifics, that is to be the presented to the courts and in the case of bhensa; discussed here with enough posts available using the search function


----------



## VCheng

So when are people here on PDF going to do the same?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39406034

"Pakistan's media regulator has ordered a controversial televangelist to apologise on air for hate speech.
Aamir Liaquat Hussain had accused liberal activists, bloggers and journalists of blasphemy and treachery.
He and the Bol television channel which broadcasts his show have until the end of the month to say sorry to those he accused - or be taken off air.
Such allegations can incite murder in Pakistan, where blasphemy is a crime that can result in the death penalty.
Even the suspicion of blasphemy has seen victims attacked and in some cases lynched by mobs."


----------



## coffee_cup

So when is Tarek Fatah going to apologize to Indian Muslims for accusing them of being agents of ISI on Indian national TV and by doing so putting their lives in real danger?

Such allegations can incite public lynching in a country controlled by Hindu fundamentalists...

Seems like fake "liberals" have gained unmatched power, just like their Mullah/Hindu fanatic counterparts. 

Real worrying times ahead...


----------



## VCheng

PEMRA's legal authority does not extend beyond Pakistan's borders, unfortunately.


----------



## coffee_cup

People trying to masquerade themselves as (fake) "liberals" or "champions of human rights" are very quickly exposed when they refuse to apply same set of "noble" principles, which they preach others non-stop day and night, in case that might put them in a damaging position. 

As wrote many times before, both religious fundamentalists and fake "liberals" (read wanna-be Tarek Fatahs) are great danger to our societies!


----------



## VCheng

Jurisdictions are very clearly defined according to law. Thankfully. 

What PEMRA decides applies within its jurisdiction. Let's see what Dr. Hussain does to comply with its ruling in this matter.


----------



## Arsalan

There are laws in place and they are meant to be followed. Giving examples that how laws are not being applied to some certain group may indicate the weakness of the system implement them but not the law. Any anti-national and anti-religion activity is prohibited and people have to abide by that. It is as simple as that.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## VCheng

If and when Dr. Hussain does apologize, may be those who said similar things here on PDF, including the administration, should consider doing the same as the morally correct thing to do. May be.


----------



## SQ8

Arsalan said:


> There are laws in place and they are meant to be followed. Giving examples that how laws are not being applied to some certain group may indicate the weakness of the system implement them but not the law. Any anti-national and anti-religion activity is prohibited and people have to abide by that. It is as simple as that.


One must also understand that the
Implementation of law in Pakistan is manipulated by multiple parties with different agendas. So as far as apologies go, Aamir liaqat is only paying the price for being the exploitative loudmouth getting on a bandwagon; some MNA or minister getting PEMRA to do the bidding of a master in some embassy is the same as the Qadri kissing lawyer making the isb high court seat at the behest of a master sitting elsewhere.

There was blasphemous content on a website that seems certain, which by some sheer coincidence landed on some known western "liberal" aspiring gentleman who write publicly as well (we have our own active ones here) and they were captured by unknown organizations that may or may not be governed . But apparently their masters abroad raised the cry before they could be squashed and hence they were let go with just a slap on the wrist.

However, it serves to show that certain organizations in Pakistan have the capability to track online content and its origins.
To find people who make snide comments and incite religious chaos in society.. to track them down in their homes in the West and/or in Pakistan and find their weak points. To give them a clear message that just because they sit behind an anonymous ID and say whatever sniveling criticism they enjoy, them or their family are not safe from being dealt with one day.
The same goes for extremists and their content, email chains and whatsapp messages. Apparently, big brothers are everywhere 

Again, this is what I have analyzed from this situation on the actions of these covert agencies.

Whether accurate or not only time will tell. Either way, the law in its true spirit should take precedence both in terms of blasphemous content and due process of suspects in court

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## VCheng

https://www.dawn.com/news/1324723/dr-riaz-ahmeds-detention

*Dr Riaz Ahmed’s detention*
EDITORIAL

*It is a strange irony in Pakistan that those who protest peacefully are silenced by the deep state, while the merchants of hate and death are largely free to stomp across this land with impunity. *Take the case of academic and rights activist Dr Riaz Ahmed who, along with fellow educator Dr Meher Afroze Murad, was detained by security forces on Saturday. The two academics were heading to the Karachi Press Club to address a press conference to demand the release of Dr Hassan Zafar Arif — another fellow activist and educator — when they were picked up by the Rangers. While Dr Murad has reportedly been freed, Dr Ahmed has been remanded in judicial custody and a case filed against him for possessing a firearm. *A Rangers’ official has said he “personally knew Dr Ahmed for his efforts in creating momentum for the release of bloggers accused of committing blasphemy”.*

*These are very dangerous, and troubling, charges.* Those who know Dr Ahmed can testify that he has always advocated peaceful resistance to oppression, so the charge that he was found in possession of a firearm is highly implausible, and all the more disturbing for that. The professor is a member of the academic council of the University of Karachi, where he teaches applied chemistry; and the treatment meted out to him is unconscionable. *This rising trend of treating respected academics as ‘security threats’ by the state is highly disturbing.* It should be remembered that Dr Hassan Zafar Arif — for whom Dr Ahmed was protesting — has been in detention since October last year. The bail application of the septuagenarian academic — hauled away for his links with MQM-London — was deferred for the third time on Saturday. In the cases of both Dr Arif and Dr Ahmed, detaining these academics as prisoners of conscience due to their beliefs is reprehensible. *The government must stop persecuting activists on flimsy grounds, or else Pakistan will earn the unenviable reputation of being a police state that crushes all peaceful dissent.*

_Published in Dawn, April 4th, 2017

=====================================
_
It can be argued that Pakistan _already _has the reputation of "being a police state that crushes all peaceful dissent".

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Arsalan

I hope the culprits are caught and interrogated and if there is any hidden agenda or foreign hand involved that that should be exposed.


----------



## VCheng

Same old Bhensa or a new Bhensa?

https://twitter.com/bhensaa

https://www.facebook.com/bhensaa2

So what exactly has been achieved?


----------

