# Inappropriate Language...



## WAJsal

(do not use this thread for any complains)

This is a serious problem on this forum, one thing many members get away with, inappropriate language is used and most of the time post are simply deleted. We have discussed this problem many times with each other, and it's time to crack down on any member using unacceptable forum language. There is no excuse for using inappropriate language. Such language only reflects one's mindset and uprising, sorry to say. If you can't tackle a member or if you can't reply to a discussion it's no excuse for using inappropriate language. Mods will not tolerate this and will not look into any excuses. 
If a member is breaking forum rules, simply report him or tag mods if you feel reporting is useless. While i assure every post reported is surely resolved. 

Slangs and sick Generalization...
This is also a massive problem with many posters, sick generalization and slang of no value need to stop. Such slang and etc, etc will not be tolerated anymore. Any member violating forum rules will simply be 'warned' under the section 'inappropriate language.
Words like, 'Indiots', 'Porkis'...Using slang's and words like P A K I S. 
Bhartis *'inappropriately'* also falls into this category. Insulting a nation, racism or any sort also falls into this category.
NOTE: The word Bhartiya is not to be confused with ' P A K I' Bhartiya is not an insult. Word is not to be used inappropriately.
Words like Chutiya, chutiyapa, Randi Rona, and similar kinds..

Bottom line: strict action from now on, no more talks and consultation through conversations. Country flags wont matter, Pakistani or not. No excuse for inappropriate language.

Anything to add? @WebMaster ,@Horus ,@Manticore ,@Oscar ,@Irfan Baloch ,@waz ,@Jungibaaz ,@Aether ....

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## Path-Finder

WAJsal said:


> (do not use this thread for any complains)
> 
> This is a serious problem on this forum, one thing many members get away with, inappropriate language is used and most of the time post are simply deleted. We have discussed this problem many times with each other, and it's time to crack down on any member using unacceptable forum language. There is no excuse for using inappropriate language. Such language only reflects one's mindset and uprising, sorry to say. If you can't tackle a member or if you can't reply to a discussion it's no excuse for using inappropriate language. Mods will not tolerate this and will not look into any excuses.
> If a member is breaking forum rules, simply report him or tag mods if you feel reporting is useless. While i assure every post reported is surely resolved.
> 
> Slangs and sick Generalization...
> This is also a massive problem with many posters, sick generalization and slang of no value need to stop. Such slang and etc, etc will not be tolerated anymore. Any member violating forum rules will simply be 'warned' under the section 'inappropriate language.
> Words like, 'Indiots', 'Porkis'...Using slang's like P A K I S and Bhartis inappropriately also falls into this category. Insulting a nation, racism or any sort also falls into this category.
> 
> Bottom line: strict action from now on, no more talks and consultation through conversations. Country flags wont matter, Pakistani or not. No excuse for inappropriate language.
> 
> Anything to add? @WebMaster ,@Horus ,@Manticore ,@Oscar ,@Irfan Baloch ,@waz ,@Jungibaaz ,@Aether ....


ok great but how long will this initiative last? because it starts with a bang and after a week starts to loose momentum and things just return to the way they are generally.


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## VCheng

Path-Finder said:


> ok great but how long will this initiative last? because it starts with a bang and after a week starts to loose momentum and things just return to the way they are generally.



The initiative is great. Whether it is applied to _everyone _or not is the problem. Some are above the rules, sadly.

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## خره مينه لګته وي

NirmalKrish said:


> yeah you got your a s s kicked out now shut your trap!


 Read it and next time you'll be banned !!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@WAJsal that include BAKHTS ?


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## Imran Khan

what abut common word CHU-TIYA its consider also slang abuse ?


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## lastofthepatriots

bharti is not slang.


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## WAJsal

Path-Finder said:


> ok great but how long will this initiative last? because it starts with a bang and after a week starts to loose momentum and things just return to the way they are generally.





Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Some are above the rules


Well spotted and well said. We have discussed this between mods and simply decided to take action from here on. At times senior or other posters where simply told not to use inappropriate language and their posts would simply be deleted. 
Be it a Pakistani or any other member, everyone will now be infracted. No excuse for using poor language. All posters are requested to report, and if possible try to guide young posters where needed.


lastofthepatriots said:


> bharti is not slang.


Used inappropriately it sounds insulting and is to the Indian members. We have to be fair here. 


Fawad Masīd said:


> @WAJsal that include BAKHTS ?


Yes. But lets be fair Pakistani members are no saints in this case.

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## VCheng

WAJsal said:


> Well spotted and well said. We have discussed this between mods and simply decided to take action from here on. At times senior or other posters where simply told not to use inappropriate language and their posts would simply be deleted.
> Be it a Pakistani or any other member, everyone will now be infracted. No excuse for using poor language. All posters are requested to report, and if possible try to guide young posters where needed.



Very noble, and correct. I will support this, but I will also believe this when I see it happening. Good Luck!

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## Islamic faith&Secularism

I would like to take this issue on the next level.

Some people here are delibaretly posting insulting,trolling, non-English content under different accounts in some threads that they do not like; and force the other members to report them, when this happens, the mod either locks the thread or delete the thread as planned by those members with such posts.

The Mod is actually acting in the wish of those posting such insulting,trolling, non-English content. I have witnessed this for a few times, and just happened another one in Middle East Affairs section.

Some members are deliberatly forcing the forum to act in tune with their wishes, and unfortunatly the mods fall in this.

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## khujliwal

Islamic faith&Secularism said:


> I would like to take this issue on the next level.
> 
> Some people here are delibaretly posting insulting,trolling, non-English content under different accounts in some threads that they do not like; and force the other members to report them, when this happens, the mod either locks the thread or delete the thread as planned by those members with such posts.
> 
> The Mod is actually acting in the wish of those posting such insulting,trolling, non-English content. I have witnessed this for a few times, and just happened another one in Middle East Affairs section.
> 
> Some members are deliberatly forcing the forum to act in tune with their wishes, and unfortunatly the mods fall in this.


You mean to say we've got non state actors on pdf who attempt to stall meaningful discussions.


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## Levina

lastofthepatriots said:


> bharti is not slang.


Most of the times the word is used to sully Indians.
The right word is BHARTIYA. There's a difference.

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## Levina

lastofthepatriots said:


> Nobody gives a shit. In Urdu it's bharti.


Write it in Urdu for me. I can read urdu.
If I'm not wrong we are called Hindustani and not bharti.

Now read this>>> (if you know how to read urdu)
بھارتیہ



T-123456 said:


> What does it mean?


Bharti is a goddess's name.
I object to the inappropriate manner in which the word is used.

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## hussain0216

T-123456 said:


> Then its an insult.



I apologise I was joking

Its a shortened word, full word being Bhartiya

Bharat is what many indians call the lands of ancient india (Including Pakistan)

Bharati just comes from that


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## T-123456

Levina said:


> Bharti is a goddess's name.
> So it is used inappropriately by members.


So its not allowed to use a goddess's name?
Because she is holy?

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## Levina

T-123456 said:


> So its not allowed to use a goddess's name?
> Because she is holy?


The problem is the sentence in which it is used.
Most of the times the word bharti is used to sully Indians.

Why would do you think I'll object to it, had guys been using it appropriately?

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## Spring Onion

Levina said:


> Write it in Urdu for me. I can read urdu.
> If I'm not wrong we are called Hindustani and not bharti.
> 
> Now read this>>> (if you know how to read urdu)
> بھارتیہ
> 
> 
> Bharti is a goddess's name.
> I object to the inappropriate manner in which the word is used.




We call it Bharat and Bharti in Urdu in Pakistan. Nothing inappropriate about it

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## Levina

Spring Onion said:


> We call it Bharat and Bharti in Urdu in Pakistan. Nothing inappropriate about it


I already told you i object to the "inappropriate" way in which it is used.

But then why should you care? right?

Never mind.

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## VCheng

Levina said:


> The problem is the sentence in which it is used.
> Most of the times the word bharti is used to sully Indians.
> 
> Why would do you think I'll object to it, had guys been using it appropriately?



Funny how the same logic being used to defend the word _bharati _when used for abbreviating the word _Pakistani _results in a word banned on PDF.

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## coffee_cup

Why is "Baharti" a banned word? Is beyond me.

Not that I use it, but it is perfectly normal Urdu word: "Baharti Wazir-e-Azam", "Baharti Cricket Team", "Baharti Fauj", "Baharti Adakaar"...

Taken from the country "Baharat", which is used in Hindi as well.

I have never heard it being used as an insult. I think it should not be banned, unless we want to ban "Urdu Language".

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## DESERT FIGHTER

WAJsal said:


> (do not use this thread for any complains)
> 
> This is a serious problem on this forum, one thing many members get away with, inappropriate language is used and most of the time post are simply deleted. We have discussed this problem many times with each other, and it's time to crack down on any member using unacceptable forum language. There is no excuse for using inappropriate language. Such language only reflects one's mindset and uprising, sorry to say. If you can't tackle a member or if you can't reply to a discussion it's no excuse for using inappropriate language. Mods will not tolerate this and will not look into any excuses.
> If a member is breaking forum rules, simply report him or tag mods if you feel reporting is useless. While i assure every post reported is surely resolved.
> 
> Slangs and sick Generalization...
> This is also a massive problem with many posters, sick generalization and slang of no value need to stop. Such slang and etc, etc will not be tolerated anymore. Any member violating forum rules will simply be 'warned' under the section 'inappropriate language.
> Words like, 'Indiots', 'Porkis'...Using slang's like P A K I S and *Bhartis* inappropriately also falls into this category. Insulting a nation, racism or any sort also falls into this category.
> 
> Bottom line: strict action from now on, no more talks and consultation through conversations. Country flags wont matter, Pakistani or not. No excuse for inappropriate language.
> 
> Anything to add? @WebMaster ,@Horus ,@Manticore ,@Oscar ,@Irfan Baloch ,@waz ,@Jungibaaz ,@Aether ....



How is bharti a slang? in urdu indians are called bharti aswell... we didnt invent a slur>?

The word "bhakt" is hindi for follower.. and used mostly by indians for eachother.. for example RSS Bhakt... even indian media uses it..

So calm down a bit.

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## coffee_cup

Levina said:


> Write it in Urdu for me. I can read urdu.
> If I'm not wrong we are called Hindustani and not bharti.
> 
> Now read this>>> (if you know how to read urdu)
> بھارتیہ
> .



Sorry, but you can not force us to change our Urdu language.

In Urdu "Baharat" is a country and "Baharti" is used for things originating from "Baharat". Have already given several examples. Even in BBC Urdu you will hear those.

It is a strange logic, it is like being on a German/English forum and demand to ban German words like "Bund" (union) and "Land" (country) because they are slangs in Hindi/Urdu/Punjabi.

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## Levina

coffee_cup said:


> Sorry, but you can not force us to change our Urdu language.
> 
> In Urdu "Baharat" is a country and "Baharti" is used for things originating from "Baharat". Have already given several examples. Even in BBC Urdu you will hear those.
> 
> It is a strange logic, it is like being on a German/English forum and demand to ban German words like "Bund" (union) and "Land" (country) because they are slangs in Hindi/Urdu/Punjabi.



You know what?
I can give a similar excuse for using some words which are offensive to you.
But i respect other nationalities and their sentiments.


Ciao.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

WAJsal said:


> Well spotted and well said. We have discussed this between mods and simply decided to take action from here on. At times senior or other posters where simply told not to use inappropriate language and their posts would simply be deleted.
> Be it a Pakistani or any other member, everyone will now be infracted. No excuse for using poor language. All posters are requested to report, and if possible try to guide young posters where needed.
> 
> Used inappropriately it sounds insulting and is to the Indian members. We have to be fair here.
> 
> Yes. But lets be fair Pakistani members are no saints in this case.


If indians consider their nationality a slur... what can we do?

Are you going to ban urdu news,clips using terms like "Bharti Wazir e Azam,Bharti Wazir e diffah etc too?

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## Djinn

@WebMaster @Horus @Oscar How is Bharat a bad word? In Urdu India is refered to as Bharat...........Next thing you know we are not supposed to call Egypt Misur, Jordan Urdan, Britain Burtania, America Aumrica, China Cheen, Russia Roose and guess what, this list is huge. I know that the forum has it's policies and all, but this is outright ridiculous. If thats the way then i fine Koran spelling offensive as they should be Quran and hence i demand this rule implemented as well. Now that it's happening i don't want Non-Muslims mentioning anything Islamic because the way they mention them its offensive to me.

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## coffee_cup

Levina said:


> You know what?
> I can give a similar excuse for using some words which are offensive to you.
> But i respect other nationalities and their sentiments.
> 
> 
> Ciao.



Look you are being very unreasonable here.

In Urdu we have this word, which is used very commonly and in no way as a derogatory insult. Ask any Urdu speaking Indian, he will explain to you.

If some Indians get offended by this perfectly normal non-derogatory word, which is even used by BBC Urdu, then the problem lies with them.

What if they started to get offended by "Indian", should we stop using this word as well?

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## SQ8

Djinn said:


> @WebMaster @Horus @Oscar How is Bharat a bad word? In Urdu India is refered to as Bharat...........Next thing you know we are not supposed to call Egypt Misur, Jordan Urdan, Britain Burtania, America Aumrica, China Cheen, Russia Roose and guess what, this list is huge. I know that the forum has it's policies and all, but this is outright ridiculous. If thats the way then i fine Koran spelling offensive as they should be Quran and hence i demand this rule implemented as well. Now that it's happening i don't want Non-Muslims mentioning anything Islamic because the way they mention them its offensive to me.



Because the fool advising that has little knowledge that within India's own constitution whose official copy is here
http://lawmin.nic.in/olwing/coi/coi-english/coi-4March2016.pdf

states the following in its FIRST CLAUSE
PART I THE UNION AND ITS TERRITORY 1. 
(1) India, that is Bharat, shall be a Union of States. 
1[(2) The States and the territories thereof shall be as specified in the First Schedule.]
(3) The territory of India shall comprise— (a) the territories of the States; 2[(b) the Union territories specified in the First Schedule; and] (c) such other territories as may be acquired



Levina said:


> You know what?
> I can give a similar excuse for using some words which are offensive to you.
> But i respect other nationalities and their sentiments.
> 
> 
> Ciao.


So essentially your constitution is offensive to you?

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## coffee_cup

Oscar said:


> Because the fool advising that has little knowledge that within India's own constitution whose official copy is here
> http://lawmin.nic.in/olwing/coi/coi-english/coi-4March2016.pdf
> 
> states the following in its FIRST CLAUSE
> PART I THE UNION AND ITS TERRITORY 1.
> (1) India, that is Bharat, shall be a Union of States.
> 1[(2) The States and the territories thereof shall be as specified in the First Schedule.]
> (3) The territory of India shall comprise— (a) the territories of the States; 2[(b) the Union territories specified in the First Schedule; and] (c) such other territories as may be acquired
> 
> 
> So essentially your constitution is offensive to you?



Yes bro, we must not let Indians tell us what our national language "Urdu" should contain and what not.

It is being used like for 70 years and no one had problems with that, then come some new "Southies" (hope it is not a slang) and they started to get offended by that. 

Please do not ban the word "Baharat" and "Baharati", unless you want to ban Urdu language.

The lady also wanted a ban on the term "Indian Occupied/Held Kashmir".

What next then? Where will it stop?

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## Spring Onion

Levina said:


> I already told you i object to the "inappropriate" way in which it is used.
> 
> But then why should you care? right?
> 
> Never mind.



What in your opinion is inappropriate way ? I mean I use the word Bharati simply with meaning as Indians. What is inappropriate there? I mean what exactly is bothering you?

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## SQ8

coffee_cup said:


> Yes bro, we must not let Indians tell us what our national language "Urdu" should contain and what not.
> 
> It is being used like for 70 years and no one had problems with that, then come some new "Southies" (hope it is not a slang) and they started to get offended by that.
> 
> Please do not ban the word "Baharat" and "Baharati", unless you want to ban Urdu language.
> 
> The lady also wanted a ban on the term "Indian Occupied/Held Kashmir".
> 
> What next then? Where will it stop?


There will be NO ban on Bharat or Bharati as it is in usage by Doordarshan which represents the state of India and not one member. AND THERE WILL NEVER BE A BAN ON INDIAN OCCUPIED KASHMIR.

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## coffee_cup

Oscar said:


> There will be NO ban on Bharat or Bharati as it is in usage by Doordarshan which represents the state of India and not one member. AND THERE WILL NEVER BE A BAN ON INDIAN OCCUPIED KASHMIR.



Thank you!

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## Mujahid Memon

Please also ban anti-religious slangs and sentences. For example
- 6th/7th century religion
- (when a terrorist attack happens) "religion of peace strikes again" etc
- generalization of terrorism with Islam

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## SQ8

Dragon4 said:


> Where is the usage of BHARTI by Doordarshan, can you link?
> Its Bhartiya, not Bharti as pointed out earlier.


Corrected, but since Bharati is essentially the other name of saraswati.. it cannot be coined an insult.


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## T-123456

coffee_cup said:


> "Baharat"


Spice/spices or herbs in Turkish.

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## Dragon4

Oscar said:


> Corrected, but since Bharati is essentially the other name of saraswati.. it cannot be coined an insult.


Read post no #1.
Why would our neighbors like to call us by a goddess name?

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## Levina

Spring Onion said:


> What in your opinion is inappropriate way ? I mean I use the word Bharati simply with meaning as Indians. What is inappropriate there? I mean what exactly is bothering you?



I have lots to say but then why should i bother explaining things when i know my suggestion is not being taken seriously.
Specially after a post like this>>>


Oscar said:


> There will be NO ban on Bharat or Bharati as it is in usage by Doordarshan which represents the state of India and not one member. AND THERE WILL NEVER BE A BAN ON INDIAN OCCUPIED KASHMIR.




Thank you for confirming it.
*




*


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## SQ8

Dragon4 said:


> Read post no #1.
> Why would our neighbors like to call us by a goddess name?


Its called spelling errors, you can spend your time correcting them to Bharatiya.


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## Levina

coffee_cup said:


> In Urdu we have this word, which is used very commonly and in no way as a derogatory insult. Ask any Urdu speaking Indian, he will explain to you.


I know many Pakistanis in real life.
Why is it that I have never heard them call me a Bharati ever????
They address me as an Indian or Hindustani. If it was a commonly used urdu word, as many claim here, they would have definitely used it in front of me is what my logic tells me.

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## coffee_cup

Levina said:


> I know many Pakistanis in real life.
> Why is it that I have never heard them call me a Bharati ever????
> They address me as an Indian or Hindustani. If it was a commonly used urdu word, as many claim here, they would have definitely used it in front of me is what my logic tells me.



Well then you have not met me and many many more Pakistanis from PDF.

You'll learn that it is perfectly normal non-derogatory term.

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## Spring Onion

Levina said:


> I have lots to say but then why should i bother explaining things when i know my suggestion is not being taken seriously.
> Specially after a post like this>>>



One has to argue her or his point with reasons and should not back off. I still did not get what is inappropriate in it.

Many Indians use pakeeeii word here which is a slang but still i personally laugh it off. It does not harm us in anyway.

Why I am feeling that you do not have appropriate reasons for calling Bharati or bharat as inappropriate



Dragon4 said:


> Rofl, then there is a very line you are walking on mate.
> Just cutting off STAN from your country name makes you squirm, while you play around with goddesses of other religion and term it spelling mistakes. Very well, Keep up the good work.



for your information nobody here or atleast 99.9% do not know if bharati is a godess so there is no question of using it as a slur against her.

If that is so then why there are some companies named bharati is this not playing around with your own godesses ?

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## Levina

coffee_cup said:


> Well then you have not met me and many many more Pakistanis from PDF


PDF!
That's right. This is the place where I first heard the word. Otherwise we call it Bhartiya.


coffee_cup said:


> You'll learn that it is perfectly normal non-derogatory term.


why would have I objected it in the first place if it had not been used a derogatory term on the forum?

Anyways choro.


You can call us whatever you want. We will remain what we are. Bharatiya!





Spring Onion said:


> bharat as inappropriate


I have NO issues with the word BHARAT,because we call it BHARAT too.
I have an issue with the word BHARATI,because it's the wrong word.
Right word is BHARATIYA.

For example,if I were to tell you that my name is Levina but you insist on calling me Lovina, would it not offend me???
*A distorted version of my name would offend me. The same logic applies to my nationality too.*
I'm bharatiya not bharati.








Spring Onion said:


> One has to argue her of his point with reasons and should not back off


Thanks for giving me a chance to explain things.

Done with this thread.


Ciao

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## Spring Onion

Levina said:


> PDF!
> That's right. This is the place where I first heard the word. Otherwise we call it Bhartiya.
> why would have I objected it in the first place if it had not been used a derogatory term on the forum?
> 
> Anyways choro.
> 
> 
> You can call us whatever you want. We will remain what we are. Bharatiya!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have NO issues with the word BHARAT,because we call it BHARAT too.
> I have an issue with the word BHARATI,because it's the wrong word.
> Right word is BHARATIYA.
> 
> For example,if I were to tell you that my name is Levina but you insist on calling me Lovina, would it not offend me???
> *A distorted version of my name would offend me. The same logic applies to my nationality too.*
> I'm bharatiya not bharati.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for giving me a chance to explain things.
> 
> Done with this thread.
> 
> 
> Ciao



didi grammar ki bat hay. In Urdu it is bharai in hindi it is bharatiya

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## coffee_cup

Spring Onion said:


> didi grammar ki bat hay. In Urdu it is bharai in hindi it is bharatiya







Levina said:


> PDF!
> That's right. This is the place where I first heard the word. Otherwise we call it Bhartiya.
> why would have I objected it in the first place if it had not been used a derogatory term on the forum?
> 
> Anyways choro.



Why do you really keep interpreting things in a way that they are not, just to get offended?

No offense, but this is a typical sign of hyper-sensitive people.

For the last time, Baharti is a non-derogatory normal word. Please get over it.

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## Levina

Spring Onion said:


> In Urdu it is bharai in hindi it is bharatiya


Springy you're not getting it.
To an Indian it is offensive.

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## SQ8

Levina said:


> I know many Pakistanis in real life.
> Why is it that I have never heard them call me a Bharati ever????
> They address me as an Indian or Hindustani. If it was a commonly used urdu word, as many claim, they would have definitely used it in front of me is what my logic tells me.


Perhaps you need to expand your social circle. The word has been used quite commonly since the early 60's.


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## Levina

Oscar said:


> Perhaps you need to expand your social circle..


Not sure if you have many Indians in your "social circle".

Anyways, thanks for the suggestion.

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## Hassan Guy

can you leave a list of words we can use


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## VCheng

Levina said:


> Springy you're not getting it.
> To an Indian it is offensive.



Those declaring that the offensive word is in use by Doordarshan would do well to take an Urdu dictionary and look up the word defined as "the state of being pure or clean". Yup, that is another famous banned word that is used. Pretty innocent and official, right?

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## I.R.A

Levina said:


> Why is it that I have never heard them call me a Bharati ever????




Watch this video clip and count how many times he has used word "Bharati" that too for your army (and he is not trying to insult)................ you are being too insecure, we use it in a very normal way. In Urdu when you are describing someone's nationality you end the country Name with "Choti Yeeeey"




e.g. Iran ......... Irani, Nepal .......... Nepali, Saud ............... Saudi, Pakistan ........... Pakistani, Bangladesh ........... Bangladeshi and similarly from Bharat ......... Bharati


On the other hand the correct word is "Pakistani" and there is no need to abbreviate this word any further to P A K I to refer to Pakistanis. And a comparison at abbreviating a full word correct word Pakistani ......... that with use of a correct word "Bharti" is highly ignorant and misleading................... 







https://www.google.com.pk/?gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=7f36V-OXOISAabP6rfAP#q=bharti+wazir+e+azam

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## Levina

User said:


> Watch this video clip and count how many times he has used word "Bharati" that too for your army (and he is not trying to insult)................ you are being too insecure, we use it in a very normal way. In Urdu when you are describing someone's nationality you end the country Name with "Choti Yeeeey"
> 
> 
> 
> e.g. Iran ......... Irani, Nepal .......... Nepali, Saud ............... Saudi, Pakistan ........... Pakistani, Bangladesh ........... Bangladeshi and similarly from Bharat ......... Bharati
> 
> 
> On the other hand the correct word is "Pakistani" and there is no need to abbreviate this word any further to P A K I to refer to Pakistanis. And a comparison at abbreviating a full word correct word Pakistani ......... that with use of a correct word "Bharti" is highly ignorant and misleading...................
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com.pk/?gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=7f36V-OXOISAabP6rfAP#q=bharti+wazir+e+azam



It's not about the word but how it's used on the forum.
This is an observation by one of your mods, I'm glad he noticed it>>>


WAJsal said:


> Used inappropriately it sounds insulting and is to the Indian members. We have to be fair here



@User You can call us whatever you like. But you earn respect when you give respect.
I've nothing more to add here.

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## third eye

Oscar said:


> *Because the fool* advising that has little knowledge



.... this thread is about using inappropriate language !

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## I.R.A

Levina said:


> It's not about the word but how it's used on the forum.
> This is an observation by one of your mods, I'm glad he noticed it>>>



I hope the moderator who noticed this has the powers too to look into the hearts of people to know the real intent. A commonly used word in Pakistani society gets recognised as a slur this is height of ignorance by the way.




Levina said:


> @User[/USER] You can call us whatever you like. But you earn respect when you give respect.
> I've nothing more to add here.




I would call people what they make me to feel about them............... it is as simple as that.

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## Indika

third eye said:


> .... this thread is about using inappropriate language !


too late to the party some body already dropped the bomb.
[QUOTE- "lastofthepatriots, post- 8792577, member-171115"]Nobody gives a shit. In Urdu it's bharti.[/QUOTE]


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## MilSpec

Oscar said:


> Because the fool advising that has little knowledge that within India's own constitution whose official copy is here
> http://lawmin.nic.in/olwing/coi/coi-english/coi-4March2016.pdf
> 
> states the following in its FIRST CLAUSE
> PART I THE UNION AND ITS TERRITORY 1.
> (1) India, that is Bharat, shall be a Union of States.
> 1[(2) The States and the territories thereof shall be as specified in the First Schedule.]
> (3) The territory of India shall comprise— (a) the territories of the States; 2[(b) the Union territories specified in the First Schedule; and] (c) such other territories as may be acquired
> 
> 
> So essentially your constitution is offensive to you?



Bharatha> Sanskrit name of India

Bharata > a legendary monarch of ancient India, after whom the epic _Mahabhārata_ is named

Bhārat > India, 

Bharatiya> Indian

Bharti> Hindu goddess of knowledge and music more commonly known as saraswati, also a common Indian girl name. 

Bharoti> A common pronunciation of Bengalis of Bharatiya, but commonly used here on the forum by Pakistani members focusing on the "roti" part of the word to play of the act of crying or whining. 

Hindian> Commonly refereed to Indian members to generalize all Indians as Hindus, quite common even with some title holders. 

Indiot> Which might be Indian Idiot, or a rioting Indian , later might be farfetched as would be beyond the creativity of most here. 

Ganga's > Use commonly by a TTC in an attempt to make it popular here on the forum, but as rest of the attempts, quite futile. 

I actually have no problems with any of the terms above, or any other here.

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## nair

@WAJsal Good initiative..... There is a reason why this is the most popular forum in SA defence.....it is time to bring bak back the quality which we used to have...

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## third eye

May get some pointers fromhere :

https://defence.pk/threads/dwindling-quality-of-the-threads.24721/

@WAJsal

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## -xXx-

Oscar said:


> Because the fool advising that has little knowledge that within India's own constitution whose official copy is here
> http://lawmin.nic.in/olwing/coi/coi-english/coi-4March2016.pdf
> 
> states the following in its FIRST CLAUSE
> PART I THE UNION AND ITS TERRITORY 1.
> (1) India, that is Bharat, shall be a Union of States.
> 1[(2) The States and the territories thereof shall be as specified in the First Schedule.]
> (3) The territory of India shall comprise— (a) the territories of the States; 2[(b) the Union territories specified in the First Schedule; and] (c) such other territories as may be acquired
> 
> 
> So essentially your constitution is offensive to you?



Point where Indian constitution says the citizen of Bharat shall be called Bharti?



Oscar said:


> Corrected, but since Bharati is essentially the other name of saraswati.. it cannot be coined an insult.



Weird logic. 

Saraswati = India = Bharat = Indian citizen?


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## WAJsal

The word is not banned, please read my post carefully.



Spring Onion said:


> We call it Bharat and Bharti in Urdu in Pakistan. Nothing inappropriate about it





coffee_cup said:


> Why is "Baharti" a banned word? Is beyond me.
> 
> Not that I use it, but it is perfectly normal Urdu word: "Baharti Wazir-e-Azam", "Baharti Cricket Team", "Baharti Fauj", "Baharti Adakaar"...
> 
> Taken from the country "Baharat", which is used in Hindi as well.
> 
> I have never heard it being used as an insult. I think it should not be banned, unless we want to ban "Urdu Language".





DESERT FIGHTER said:


> How is bharti a slang? in urdu indians are called bharti aswell... we didnt invent a slur>?
> 
> The word "bhakt" is hindi for follower.. and used mostly by indians for eachother.. for example RSS Bhakt... even indian media uses it..
> 
> So calm down a bit.





Djinn said:


> @WebMaster @Horus @Oscar How is Bharat a bad word? In Urdu India is refered to as Bharat...........Next thing you know we are not supposed to call Egypt Misur, Jordan Urdan, Britain Burtania, America Aumrica, China Cheen, Russia Roose and guess what, this list is huge. I know that the forum has it's policies and all, but this is outright ridiculous. If thats the way then i fine Koran spelling offensive as they should be Quran and hence i demand this rule implemented as well. Now that it's happening i don't want Non-Muslims mentioning anything Islamic because the way they mention them its offensive to me.



Maybe i didn't make it clear enough, never tough it'd be too tough to understand...
Here you go...


WAJsal said:


> Using slang's like P A K I S and Bhartis inappropriately


The word itself is not banned, using it poorly is not allowed, simple. 'Bharti dogs', 'Bharti scums', 'bharti shits', should i go on? I think 'inappropriately' was enough in my initial post. Apparently not.
@Oscar , some clarification.
@Levina , these members failed to get the point. The word is not banned at all, much like we can't ban 'Pakistani'. Now using 'Pakistani', now using 'Pakistani' inappropriately is most defiantly banned. Wonder why we are getting so emotional for?

Please note: 'P A K I' is an insult. There is a difference. Bhartiya is not an insult.

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## -xXx-

@WAJsal 

What classify as an insult? Isn't because Pakistanis feel offended to be called as "P A K I", it is considered as slang or do we have linguistic mean of word "P A K I" which is offensive?

As far as Indians go, we mainly have two types-
1- Who do not feel nice to be called Bharti, since there is nothing as such.
2- Rest who are not bothered, but they wont approve this word either.

I specifically do not get this part -



> The word itself is not banned, using it poorly is not allowed, simple. 'Bharti dogs', 'Bharti scums', 'bharti shits', should i go on? I think 'inappropriately' was enough in my initial post. Apparently not.



Replacing Bharti with Indian can be allowed? If not what the fuss with bharti only?

Change of heart?

Anyways, if bharti is allowed, then let it be. Rules are Rules.

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## Spectre

Oscar said:


> Corrected, but since Bharati is essentially the other name of saraswati.. it cannot be coined an insult.



Sure but just as every Pakistani would not be liked to be stereotyped by the moniker Abdul or Muhammad even though they may be renowned figures in Islam, an Indian would not liked to be called Bharti, a noun which is sporadically used as a first name for girls not to be confused by Bhartiya which is a national identity.

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## Djinn

WAJsal said:


> Maybe i didn't make it clear enough, never tough it'd be too tough to understand...
> Here you go...


Perhaps things would have been clearer if they actually were clear to begin with? First you lumped **** with Bhaarti where as **** is an insult and Bhaarti isn't..........Which you have accepted in your later post and not in the OP. Secondly "inappropriate" emphasis is pretty much inappropriate itself........Calling anyone dog or attaching other insulting words are already banned and that extends to all nationalities.

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## Spring Onion

WAJsal said:


> The word is not banned, please read my post carefully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe i didn't make it clear enough, never tough it'd be too tough to understand...
> Here you go...
> 
> The word itself is not banned, using it poorly is not allowed, simple. 'Bharti dogs', 'Bharti scums', 'bharti shits', should i go on? I think 'inappropriately' was enough in my initial post. Apparently not.
> @Oscar , some clarification.
> @Levina , these members failed to get the point. The word is not banned at all, much like we can't ban 'Pakistani'. Now using 'Pakistani', now using 'Pakistani' inappropriately is most defiantly banned. Wonder why we are getting so emotional for?
> 
> Please note: 'P A K I' is an insult. There is a difference. Bhartiya is not an insult.



None of us supports use of abusive words like shit/dogs/scum etc etc tagging these with any nationality.

Some Indian members were calling use of bharat and bharti as inappropriate that is why we did not the point.

Now it is clear



MilSpec said:


> Bharatha> Sanskrit name of India
> 
> 
> Bharoti> A common pronunciation of Bengalis of Bharatiya, but commonly used here on the forum by Pakistani members focusing on the "roti" part of the word to play of the act of crying or whining.
> .



 only I use bengali version bharoti and trust me it never cross my mind that roti" stands for crying. lolzzzz your own misconception is at work here. Seriously when I call someone from your side a cry baby I simply use the word rondoo. I never used the word bharoti for this purpose.

sometime self-inflicted injuries are the ones that hurt you not others

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## MilSpec

Spring Onion said:


> None of us supports use of abusive words like shit/dogs/scum etc etc tagging these with any nationality.
> 
> Some Indian members were calling use of bharat and bharti as inappropriate that is why we did not the point.
> 
> Now it is clear
> 
> 
> 
> only I use bengali version bharoti and trust me it never cross my mind that roti" stands for crying. lolzzzz your own misconception is at work here. Seriously when I call someone from your side a cry baby I simply use the word rondoo. I never used the word bharoti for this purpose.
> 
> sometime self-inflicted injuries are the ones that hurt you not others



You are not the only one using the term, and as I clearly mentioned, I have no problems with any of the terms, even the obscenely abusive ones. 

the way a person conducts himself is a true reflection of upbringing, people hurling obscenities and slurs are not really doing any damage to the people they are responding to.

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## Spring Onion

MilSpec said:


> You are not the only one using the term, and as I clearly mentioned, I have no problems with any of the terms, even the obscenely abusive ones.
> 
> the way a person conducts himself is a true reflection of upbringing, people hurling obscenities and slurs are not really doing any damage to the people they are responding to.



Your countrymen here on the forum even had been blackmailing female members. So please do not bring in upbringing specially when every other Indian reader use abusive dirty language even when commenting on news stories on Pakistani newspaper websites.

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## MilSpec

Spring Onion said:


> Your countrymen here on the forum even had been blackmailing female members. So please do not bring in upbringing specially when every other Indian reader use abusive dirty language even when commenting on news stories on Pakistani newspaper websites.


did I refer to nationality, I plainly said the way a person conducts himself/herself is a true reflection of his/her upbringing. Do you disagree?

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## Spring Onion

MilSpec said:


> did I refer to nationality, I plainly said the way a person conducts himself/herself is a true reflection of his/her upbringing. Do you disagree?



 YES I do.

Because out of 100% may be 0.1% parents hardly would bring their children in an inappropriate manner.


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## MilSpec

Spring Onion said:


> YES I do.
> 
> Because out of 100% may be 0.1% parents hardly would bring their children in an inappropriate manner.


let's agree to disagree, then .

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## Spring Onion

MilSpec said:


> let's agree to disagree, then .



Why ? can't we put logical argument to either agree or disagree based on reason?


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## nair

MilSpec said:


> let's agree to disagree, then .




You have made ur point clear.....
He 
Peopleb are stuck to a word....but There are several other words wajsal has mentioned...its time we focus on them....



Spring Onion said:


> Why ? can't we put logical argument to either agree or disagree based on reason?


Madamji.... You still can use that word.... :p

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## Spring Onion

nair said:


> Madamji.... You still can use that word.... :p



which word? 

Look since I am sworn friend of Indians hence I can all you by any name.


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## MilSpec

Spring Onion said:


> Why ? can't we put logical argument to either agree or disagree based on reason?


We can, but my interpretation of common sense, seems to be on a different plane, where from observation and engagement, I have seen that there is a direct correlation of how a person conducts himself, and the way he was brought up by his guardians/parents at home. I have seen ignored/un-engaged children becoming fickle minded youth when they grow up. I have seen over disciplined kids turning out to be rebellious. I have seen children growing up to think drinking and smoking is right of passage just because thier parents did that. i have seen kids swear at their parents because that's what they saw their father doing at their neighbors. AND then I have seen people grow up and have the humility because that's what they saw in their parent's, I have also seen kids taking after the the linguistic demeanor of their parents.

What I have never encountered is great parenting producing rotten kids. and that exactly is my take that you seem to be vehemently opposing. My view is based on my observations, again a trait I might have picked up from my upbringing, so in your disagreement, my entire premise may be incorrect.

The strongest institution of education is family, strong education in family provides the basic foundation on which the character of a child is built upon, without a strong foundation, super structure is suspect, one might be able to polish it in later stages, but it sometime does show up. This foundation strength lies in the upbringing which has major influence of parents, siblings, neighbors, and educational institutions. You mostly behave the way you were brought up, as you grow up you can polish your self and become more refined, but once you get into a confrontation, the true self usually reveals itself, in the cases of heated arguments here, when people are abusing others on basis of skin color, race, religion, caste, creed, lineage - all of the inbuilt insecurities and hatred embedded in the upbringing manifests itself.

Again none of it is offensive to me, I just sit back a feel sad for those kids.

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## -xXx-

MilSpec said:


> We can, but my interpretation of common sense, seems to be on a different plane, where from observation and engagement, I have seen that that there is a direct correlation of how a person conducts, and the way he was brought up by his guardians/parents at home. I have seen ignored/un-engaged children becoming fickle minded youth when they grow up. I have seen over disciplined kids turning out to be rebellious. I have seen children growing up to think drinking and smoking is right of passage just because thier parents did that. i have seen kids swear at their parents because that's what they saw their father doing at their neighbors. AND then I have seen people grow up and have the humility because that's what they saw in their parent's, I have also seen kids taking after the the linguistic demeanor of their parents.
> 
> What I have never encountered is great parenting producing rotten kids. and that exactly is my take that you seem to be vehemently opposing. My view is based on my observations, again a trait I might have picked up from my upbringing, so in your disagreement, my entire premise may be incorrect.
> 
> The strongest institution of education is family, strong education in family provides the basic foundation on which the character of a child is built upon, without a strong foundation, super structure is suspect, one might be able to polish it in later stages, but it sometime does show up. This foundation strength lies in the upbringing which has major influence of parents, siblings, neighbors, and educational institutions. You mostly behave the way you were brought up, as you grow up you can polish your self and become more refined, but once you get into a confrontation, the true self usually reveals itself, in the cases of heated arguments here, when people are abusing others on basis of skin color, race, religion, caste, creed, lineage - all of the inbuilt insecurities and hatred embedded in the upbringing manifests itself.
> 
> Again none of it is offensive to me, I just sit back a feel sad for those kids.



Now write a full paragraph and make me understand that sun rises in the east.


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## [Bregs]

i am of the firm opinion that "accha bolo, accha suno". emotions needs to be controlled specially when its Indian vs Pakistani members chatting

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## nair

-xXx- said:


> Now write a full paragraph and make me understand that sun rises in the east.



@MilSpec don't waste ur time explaining in detail.....



Spring Onion said:


> which word?
> 
> Look since I am sworn friend of Indians hence I can all you by any name.


Any word.... lol


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## RISING SUN

coffee_cup said:


> Why is "Baharti" a banned word? Is beyond me.
> 
> Not that I use it, but it is perfectly normal Urdu word: "Baharti Wazir-e-Azam", "Baharti Cricket Team", "Baharti Fauj", "Baharti Adakaar"...
> 
> Taken from the country "Baharat", which is used in Hindi as well.
> 
> I have never heard it being used as an insult. I think it should not be banned, unless we want to ban "Urdu Language".


It's not Baharti, rather it is Bhartiya. Baharti or Bharti is slang and used for hurt others who belong to Bharat. And correct way of saying is Bhartiya wazir e Azam like this, however many misuse the wording to suit their side.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> How is bharti a slang? in urdu indians are called bharti aswell... we didnt invent a slur>?
> 
> The word "bhakt" is hindi for follower.. and used mostly by indians for eachother.. for example RSS Bhakt... even indian media uses it..
> 
> So calm down a bit.


In Urdu a Indian is called either Hindustani or Bhartiya.


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## The Eagle

RISING SUN said:


> In Urdu a Indian is called either Hindustani or Bhartiya.



This is how it is wrote in Urdu... Now read it so you can understand how it is called Bharti... The word is not an offense as it is wrote in Urdu like below however, one can say that the context in which it is used could be offensive...

بھارتی

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## RISING SUN

Oscar said:


> Because the fool advising that has little knowledge that within India's own constitution whose official copy is here
> http://lawmin.nic.in/olwing/coi/coi-english/coi-4March2016.pdf
> 
> states the following in its FIRST CLAUSE
> PART I THE UNION AND ITS TERRITORY 1.
> (1) India, that is Bharat, shall be a Union of States.
> 1[(2) The States and the territories thereof shall be as specified in the First Schedule.]
> (3) The territory of India shall comprise— (a) the territories of the States; 2[(b) the Union territories specified in the First Schedule; and] (c) such other territories as may be acquired
> 
> 
> So essentially your constitution is offensive to you?


@Oscar there is a difference between Bharat, Bhartiya and a slang word Bharti or Bharathi. Hope you acknowledge the difference.



The Eagle said:


> This is how it is wrote in Urdu... Now read it so you can understand how it is called Bharti... The word is not an offense as it is wrote in Urdu like below however, one can say that the context in which it is used could be offensive...
> 
> بھارتی


That's exactly what we are saying. I am not much expert in Urdu, even not in Hindi for that matter. But I can understand what is offensive and what is not. Hope that is acknowledged.

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## coffee_cup

RISING SUN said:


> It's not Baharti, rather it is Bhartiya. Baharti or Bharti is slang and used for hurt others who belong to Bharat. And correct way of saying is Bhartiya wazir e Azam like this, however many misuse the wording to suit their side.
> .



I am not going to waste my time debating something that has already been clarified by a dozen or so people.

Only because you "feel" that you are being insulted by perfectly non-derogatory word, does not mean that we change our language. It is not a slang or something, it is a literary word.

Do you think just because we might get offended by the word "Bund" (union), or "Land" (country), Germans should change their language?

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## The Eagle

RISING SUN said:


> That's exactly what we are saying. I am not much expert in Urdu, even not in Hindi for that matter. But I can understand what is offensive and what is not. Hope that is acknowledged.



The word is not inappropriate at all. Contexts/sentence may define the term as inappropriate word where it is used purely for insults but the word Bharti is not a slang nor insults alone. You quoted Urdu so I tried to clarify how it is wrote and read which is not offensive at all.

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## VCheng

Here is an example of a post using words which, individually, are all perfectly acceptable. But in the manner and context used, the language becomes inappropriate:



> Then why didn't your biological fathers just moved on from Iraq and Iran. What was the purpose of killing millions of Iraqis and giving rise to ISIS?



Hence the struggle and judgement - for some of us, anyway. Given @MilSpec posts above, this individual might have serious father issues of his/her own. Probably deserves pity more than anything else, poor fella!

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## RISING SUN

Oscar said:


> Corrected, but since Bharati is essentially the other name of saraswati.. it cannot be coined an insult.


Sir you have been on this forum far longer than most of us have been here. We hope you understand how this word is used in sentences, posts which are explicitly and implicitly bad. Please understand that Bhartiya is different and accepted word and calling us Bharti/Bharathi/Bharati is not civil way of addressing. Thank you.

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## SQ8

RISING SUN said:


> Sir you have been on this forum far longer than most of us have been here. We hope you understand how this word is used in sentences, posts which are explicitly and implicitly bad. Please understand that Bhartiya is different and accepted word and calling us Bharti/Bharathi/Bharati is not civil way of addressing. Thank you.


Again, we can't ban common vocabulary just on an ambiguous usage. I believe WasJal has defined this issue better.

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## RISING SUN

The Eagle said:


> The word is not inappropriate at all. Contexts/sentence may define the term as inappropriate word where it is used purely for insults but the word Bharti is not a slang nor insults alone. You quoted Urdu so I tried to clarify how it is wrote and read which is not offensive at all.


Sir will you agree that this word is used by most of Pakistani posters only and many of the times we see posts with bad context or sentence which we report as well. But it leads to belief in many that due to sheer number of posts and being general this word, they will get away with it and yes most of the time they do get away with it. No more arguments in this my side, I have put my observations in all posts, hope that is well received.

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## Levina

WAJsal said:


> Bhartiya is not an insult.


Exactly!!!
*Bhartiya* is not offensive but *BHARATI* is. It's a distorted version of the original word. 


When in conversation with an innocent Pakistani, who is unaware of the happenings on PDF, confessed to me that he has never heard the word *BHARATI*>>>















Another Pakistani girl reinforced that the word is Hindustani and not BHARATI>>>

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## Grevion

@WAJsal please add the slang "Randi Rona" to the list. Apparently it has become a famous word for many Pakistanis here for some weird reason.

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## MilSpec

Oscar said:


> Again, we can't ban common vocabulary just on an ambiguous usage. I believe WasJal has defined this issue better.


There is no need to ban Bharti, 

as a matter of fact there is no need to ban any homonyms, perfectly fine words can be used in derogatory fashion, and just deal with them on case by case basis.

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## Grevion

Levina said:


> Exactly!!!
> *Bhartiya* is not offensive but *BHARATI* is.
> 
> 
> When in conversation with an innocent Pakistani, who is unaware of the happenings on PDF, confessed to me that he has never heard the word *BHARATI*>>>
> 
> 
> View attachment 342467
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 342468
> 
> 
> 
> Another Pakistani girl reinforced that the word is Hindustani and not BHARATI>>>
> View attachment 342476


Nice work jasoos levina.
ACP Pradyumna Levina.

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## SQ8

MilSpec said:


> There is no need to ban Bharti,
> 
> as a matter of fact there is no need to ban any homonyms, perfectly fine words can be used in derogatory fashion, and just deal with them on case by case basis.


That is exactly what is done. Many a times the abbreviation P-a-ki is ignored based on poster's usage and previous posts and topics. 

IMHO, this is all much ado about nothing. The greater issue is lack of reporting. 
Posters dont understand that going @mods or whatever moderator username is much less effective than creating a report.

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## MilSpec

Oscar said:


> That is exactly what is done. Many a times the abbreviation P-a-ki is ignored based on poster's usage and previous posts and topics.
> 
> IMHO, this is all much ado about nothing. The greater issue is lack of reporting.
> Posters dont understand that going @mods or whatever moderator username is much less effective than creating a report.


I sympathize with the webmaster, the site has seen tremendous improvements in terms of features, and management, and still people keep complaining.

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## SQ8

MilSpec said:


> I sympathize with the webmaster, the site has seen tremendous improvements in terms of features, and management, and still people keep complaining.


Human Nature. Most cannot fathom the fine line this site has to walk to meet its core purpose, values and satisfy all users. It is next to impossible with the subject context and userbase.


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## Spring Onion

Oscar said:


> That is exactly what is done. Many a times the abbreviation P-a-ki is ignored based on poster's usage and previous posts and topics.
> 
> IMHO, this is all much ado about nothing. The greater issue is lack of reporting.
> Posters dont understand that going @mods or whatever moderator username is much less effective than creating a report.



yara what usage. bharti is a simple plain commonly used word in Urdu for word "Indian". A while back I was watching Dawn's programme Zara Hat k and there was one segment on Indian media's recent fake videos about Pakistan and it was called "Bharti Media ki jay ho".

All in all it is obvious Indians when left with no serious matter to discuss after their big chest-thumbing over "surgical strikes", now have become too touchy to cry about anything including the word bharti.

They came up with absurd imagination like "Pakistani posters are insulting hindu godess" for God's sake not even I knew that there is a godess named bharti and if there is why Indians are not feeling insulted when corporate companies are named as bharti in India.

This is uncalled for touchiness when these bharatis come up with all kinds of name calling in BD forum section where they call every other member as razakar/rajakar, terrorists, islamists etc etc who does not support Indian view.

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## SQ8

Spring Onion said:


> yara what usage. bharti is a simple plain commonly used word in Urdu for word "Indian". A while back I was watching Dawn's programme Zara Hat k and there was one segment on Indian media's recent fake videos about Pakistan and it was called "Bharti Media ki jay ho".
> 
> All in all it is obvious Indians when left with no serious matter to discuss after their big chest-thumbing over "surgical strikes", now have become too touchy to cry about anything including the word bharti.
> 
> They came up with absurd imagination like "Pakistani posters are insulting hindu godess" for God's sake not even I knew that there is a godess named bharti and if there is why Indians are not feeling insulted when corporate companies are named as bharti in India.
> 
> This is uncalled for touchiness when these bharatis come up with all kinds of name calling in BD forum section where they call every other member as razakar/rajakar, terrorists, islamists etc etc who does not support Indian view.



We already know that which is why all the needless semantics and smart alec comments are pretty worthless to us. If it is a valid complaint which makes common sense based on history and common occurance, we handle it; if it is just someone trying to waste our time. At least I'll stick to continue more important stuff like consuming my blueberry smoothie.

Oscar out.

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## Spring Onion

MilSpec said:


> I sympathize with the webmaster, the site has seen tremendous improvements in terms of features, and management, and still people keep complaining.



People read 99 per cent Indians who want mods to allow every kind of anti-Pakistan Indian propaganda which is ok BTW we have already allowed that but these people along with that want mods to ban any kind of counter argument by Pakistani members.

Your members openly called our army as "terrorists" still we tolerate them.

What else you people want when you call Pakistani actors and actresses shameless for working in India and call for total ban and still those Indian members come flocking to PDF as if shame is a one-way road.

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## MilSpec

Spring Onion said:


> People read 99 per cent Indians who want mods to allow every kind of anti-Pakistan Indian propaganda which is ok BTW we have already allowed that but these people along with that want mods to ban any kind of counter argument by Pakistani members.
> 
> Your members openly called our army as "terrorists" still we tolerate them.
> 
> What else you people want when you call Pakistani actors and actresses shameless for working in India and call for total ban and still those Indian members come flocking to PDF as if shame is a one-way road.



I am not sure what the first paragraph meant, because I couldn't follow it. 

as for the rest,
there are no "My" members here, I am not running a cult, just to be specific, I am just another member and not leader of all Indians here. I have been here for quite a while and I haven't called for any ban on any content in India. If anything I would be more than happy if there was no censorship on creative content in India, but that is a different topic. 

If anyone calls your army as terrorists, then you should report the post and escalate the issue.

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## coffee_cup

Our Bharti friends need to chill. "Bharti", just like "Cheeni" is a nationality in Urdu.

Most of us have a lot of Bhartis friends in real life, nice people all around (incidently most of my colleagues were from North-West India). We go along pretty well.

I find personally the ones coming from South, South-West India (Mumbai, Bengaluru etc) are hyper-sensitive, may be because being farther from Pakistan? 

Just a subjective opinion.

Why do I keep repeating myself? Duh... I don't know...


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## The Eagle

RISING SUN said:


> Sir will you agree that this word is used by most of Pakistani posters only and many of the times we see posts with bad context or sentence which we report as well. But it leads to belief in many that due to sheer number of posts and being general this word, they will get away with it and yes most of the time they do get away with it. No more arguments in this my side, I have put my observations in all posts, hope that is well received.



Well, TBH, one with the bad manners doesn't even use an offensive word but lead it in context by twisting the words so a habitual wouldn't change at all. Many get away with most of the things playing it so innocent and do not use offensive language but contexts are being felt obnoxious.

The word Bharti is clearly spoken as I write in Urdu (in my first post at this thread). If you found any post offensive, do report but doing so for the mere word that one side use it as written in National Language and you personally feel it as offensive, is not wise.


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## Indika

Spring Onion said:


> People read 99 per cent Indians who want mods to allow every kind of anti-Pakistan Indian propaganda which is ok BTW we have already allowed that but these people along with that want mods to ban any kind of counter argument by Pakistani members.
> 
> Your members openly called our army as "terrorists" still we tolerate them.
> 
> What else you people want when you call Pakistani actors and actresses shameless for working in India and call for total ban and still those Indian members come flocking to PDF as if shame is a one-way road.


Accusations and counter accusations are common, nothing can be done about it. So is propaganda given that not many use facts in comments what is truth for you might be blatant lie for some body else.
But the question is in spite of all these nonsense do they use civilized language? Nothing prevents from ppl agreeing to disagree.

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## Mugwop

If cheeni is chinese in urdu than how do you say sugar?

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## VCheng

Mugwop said:


> If cheeni is chinese in urdu than how do you say sugar?



The words are homonyms in Urdu.

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## PARIKRAMA

I certainly believe all Bharatis (including me) should be banned.. That will help this site come up better in terms of all issues.. Especially since we do loiter and make a mess of the whole forum. Perhaps banning all the IPs from India may do the trick... Bharatis are using this forum primarily for mis-information and false propaganda and hence we use all inappropriate language and references. Basically its a ploy to lure young minds out, teach them all the wrong things and feel good with superiority complex/inferiority complex juggling. Our effort to showcase one single country to be a repeat offender is not working. We need to sit with Sir Doval to see where this strategy failed and come back as a better Unit.

Oh i forgot to add also we Bharatis are the reason that facebook and twitter handle of this site is also a superb area where we have spoiled all the ppl behind that to come up with such opinions and content.. of course our own Bharatis have infiltrated the system, manipulated few and used that for all propaganda.... Now since swiss and Panama things are out, need some more safe heavens to transfer the payments..

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## -xXx-

nair said:


> @MilSpec don't waste ur time explaining in detail.....


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## Zee-shaun

Mugwop said:


> If cheeni is chinese in urdu than how do you say sugar?


In English China has two meanings; a country but also your dinner set.
How do you know the difference?


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## WAJsal

PARIKRAMA said:


> I certainly believe all Bharatis (including me) should be banned.. That will help this site come up better in terms of all issues.. Especially since we do loiter and make a mess of the whole forum. Perhaps banning all the IPs from India may do the trick... Bharatis are using this forum primarily for mis-information and false propaganda and hence we use all inappropriate language and references. Basically its a ploy to lure young minds out, teach them all the wrong things and feel good with superiority complex/inferiority complex juggling. Our effort to showcase one single country to be a repeat offender is not working. We need to sit with Sir Doval to see where this strategy failed and come back as a better Unit.
> 
> Oh i forgot to add also we Bharatis are the reason that facebook and twitter handle of this site is also a superb area where we have spoiled all the ppl behind that to come up with such opinions and content.. of course our own Bharatis have infiltrated the system, manipulated few and used that for all propaganda.... Now since swiss and Panama things are out, need some more safe heavens to transfer the payments..


I get where this is coming from. But please clam down, emotions are very strong. And i would say the reservations too.

Secondly i reckon we have wasted a lot of time on 'Bharti' or 'Bhartiya'. It's Bharti in Urdu, as long as it is not used inappropriately in a sentence i reckon we are alright with it. 

Secondly, please note: continuously violating these rules can also lead to a permanent ban.

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## -xXx-

Most of the word or phrases which are now considered as a "slang" has non offensive meanings in literal sense.

Why would one use supposedly urdu word "Bharti" in an otherwise English written post? "Indian" go well with English unless you tend to use "bharti" as a slang.

Isn't use of urdu in forums outside member club already banned?


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## Soumitra

What about words like ugly, skinny Dark, Foreign Monkeys



hussain0216 said:


> I just stated a fact most indians are ugly skinny and dark
> 
> Why should the history of our land be coopted by these foreign monkeys from the east


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## Joe Shearer

Oscar said:


> Because the fool advising that has little knowledge that within India's own constitution whose official copy is here
> http://lawmin.nic.in/olwing/coi/coi-english/coi-4March2016.pdf
> 
> states the following in its FIRST CLAUSE
> PART I THE UNION AND ITS TERRITORY 1.
> (1) India, that is Bharat, shall be a Union of States.
> 1[(2) The States and the territories thereof shall be as specified in the First Schedule.]
> (3) The territory of India shall comprise— (a) the territories of the States; 2[(b) the Union territories specified in the First Schedule; and] (c) such other territories as may be acquired
> 
> 
> So essentially your constitution is offensive to you?



@Oscar, that was uncalled for. Everybody knows the context in which 'Bharti', rather than Bharatiya, is used; if you are going to fling our own Constitution at us, then use the correct grammatical term. It is not for nothing that distortions of the word 'Pakistani' by British yobs is concerned a racist slur; that is the same reason why the distortion of 'Bharatiya' is objected to by every single Indian member. 

Let me assure you that this fool has read the Constitution, understands its sections, and also understands how those who belong to a country that has not the slightest clue how constitutions work can use ours as a prop to defend their essentially indefensible rudeness and racism.



Oscar said:


> Corrected, but since Bharati is essentially the other name of saraswati.. it cannot be coined an insult.



Seriously? May I use a religious Islamic term for you or any other poster in sarcasm and get away with it? Your using it in your signature is different; my using it as a sneer is not the same thing. None of those using Bharti is using Saraswati's alternative name; they are consciously using it as a term of contempt.



Oscar said:


> We already know that which is why all the needless semantics and smart alec comments are pretty worthless to us. If it is a valid complaint which makes common sense based on history and common occurance, we handle it; if it is just someone trying to waste our time. At least I'll stick to continue more important stuff like consuming my blueberry smoothie.
> 
> Oscar out.



"Alas, poor Oscar, I knew him well."



coffee_cup said:


> Our Bharti friends need to chill. "Bharti", just like "Cheeni" is a nationality in Urdu.
> 
> Most of us have a lot of Bhartis friends in real life, nice people all around (incidently most of my colleagues were from North-West India). We go along pretty well.
> 
> I find personally the ones coming from South, South-West India (Mumbai, Bengaluru etc) are hyper-sensitive, may be because being farther from Pakistan?
> 
> Just a subjective opinion.
> 
> Why do I keep repeating myself? Duh... I don't know...



You know what?

Try a brave, bold, daring experiment: try doing without use of that offensive word. It doesn't depend on whether you think it offensive or not. It depends on whether we think so. We do. 

What happens if you use Indian instead? Some physiological deformation takes place?

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## Noore

Mugwop said:


> If cheeni is chinese in urdu than how do you say sugar?


Shakar would be the proper word for cheeni in Urdu.


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## terry5

Levina said:


> Write it in Urdu for me. I can read urdu.
> If I'm not wrong we are called Hindustani and not bharti.
> 
> Now read this>>> (if you know how to read urdu)
> بھارتیہ
> 
> 
> *Bharti is a goddess's name.
> I object to the inappropriate manner in which the word is used*.



as i am with the word wahhabi 
a name of God used derogatory


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## Joe Shearer

terry5 said:


> as i am with the word wahhabi
> a name of God used derogatory



I take it that your argument is they did it first?


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## SQ8

Joe Shearer said:


> @Oscar, that was uncalled for. Everybody knows the context in which 'Bharti', rather than Bharatiya, is used; if you are going to fling our own Constitution at us, then use the correct grammatical term. It is not for nothing that distortions of the word 'Pakistani' by British yobs is concerned a racist slur; that is the same reason why the distortion of 'Bharatiya' is objected to by every single Indian member.
> 
> Let me assure you that this fool has read the Constitution, understands its sections, and also understands how those who belong to a country that has not the slightest clue how constitutions work can use ours as a prop to defend their essentially indefensible rudeness and racism.
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously? May I use a religious Islamic term for you or any other poster in sarcasm and get away with it? Your using it in your signature is different; my using it as a sneer is not the same thing. None of those using Bharti is using Saraswati's alternative name; they are consciously using it as a term of contempt.
> 
> 
> 
> "Alas, poor Oscar, I knew him well."
> 
> 
> 
> You know what?
> 
> Try a brave, bold, daring experiment: try doing without use of that offensive word. It doesn't depend on whether you think it offensive or not. It depends on whether we think so. We do.
> 
> What happens if you use Indian instead? Some physiological deformation takes place?


I have already mentioned that corrections to Bharati can be suggested.The term Bharati came straight from a long standing pronunciation within our media since the days of Ghulam Mohammad and has little to do with sneer or otherwise (_ as if suddenly sneering has become offensive to the population of Indians here who spare no bloody chance to do so otherwise at us Pakistanis_). 

If the constitutional spelling for someone from Bharat is Bharatiya; then all that is required is to request that A Bharti Member be spelled as Bharatiya. It is a valid request and can be looked into, but it wont end up in banning Bharti just for the sake that someone just woke up and found it offensive because Pakistanis use it.

As for the usage of religious terms, we have usage of Salafis both as a praise, an insult and general conversation; have not heard any complaints of banning it. I shudder to think why some religious term and that too associated with a very positive diety is an insult unless someone goes really out of their way to do so. 


As for my "death", please remember it is this "dear oscar" who has butted his heads against his countrymen to ensure that Indians are treated fairly and with respect. So pardon me if from now onwards I stop giving a rats arse in that regard as clearly all it buys is people sitting on top of our heads , on what is a PAKISTANI forum, and making hue and cry on absolutely irrelevant issues to actual forum problems just because they feel slighted by a long standing cultural hand me down; 
ESPEICIALLY When there is LITERALLY NO, ZIP, NADA, ZERO , DOES NOT EXIST a counterpart in any Bharatiya owned and run forum that even gives one tenth of the leeway we do and instead engage in open racism, religious insults and outright genocidal suggestions against our country which would make the sanest projectile vomit.

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## Levina

Joe Shearer said:


> @Oscar, that was uncalled for. Everybody knows the context in which 'Bharti', rather than Bharatiya, is used; if you are going to fling our own Constitution at us, then use the correct grammatical term. It is not for nothing that distortions of the word 'Pakistani' by British yobs is concerned a racist slur; that is the same reason why the distortion of 'Bharatiya' is objected to by every single Indian member.
> 
> Let me assure you that this fool has read the Constitution, understands its sections, and also understands how those who belong to a country that has not the slightest clue how constitutions work can use ours as a prop to defend their essentially indefensible rudeness and racism.


Had this issue been raised by you I don't think our dear mod would have vehemently opposed it the way he did when it was raised by a "fool" called moi.
Lol

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## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> [
> You know what?
> 
> Try a brave, bold, daring experiment: try doing without use of that offensive word. It doesn't depend on whether you think it offensive or not. It depends on whether we think so. We do.
> 
> What happens if you use Indian instead? Some physiological deformation takes place?



I am gonna be a little bit blunt here, Joe. @Oscar has clarified it already.

Indians find many things "very offensive", which are part and parcel of Pakistani life.

For example:

Indians find it very offensive that we call Jamu&Kashmir "Indian Occupied Kashmir"
They find it very offensive that we show Kashmir (including IOK) as part of Pakistan
They (majority) find it very offensive that we slaughter cows and eat beef
And now more recently, some of them have started to find "Bharti" - a normal non-derogatory Urdu word - offenisve too.

To that I just say, sorry lads, we are not gonna change our diet, our PoV and our language, only because you find it "offensive". It is a matter of principle.

It is very simple, if I go to a forum called "Indian Defence Forum", created and managed by Indians, I'll not start demanding them to stop showing Kashmir as part of India, or stop doing many other things no matter how offensive that might be to me.

You (Indians) in this case are required to integrate in majority area and not vice versa. This unreasonable demand is analog to all those rigid full Burqa wearing Muslim women who want to live in Europe but find it very offensive that other women are walking around without it.

Now please lets just move on.

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## -xXx-

Oscar said:


> I have already mentioned that corrections to Bharati can be suggested.The term Bharati came straight from a long standing pronunciation within our media since the days of Ghulam Mohammad and has little to do with sneer or otherwise (_ as if suddenly sneering has become offensive to the population of Indians here who spare no bloody chance to do so otherwise at us Pakistanis_).
> 
> If the constitutional spelling for someone from Bharat is Bharatiya; then all that is required is to request that A Bharti Member be spelled as Bharatiya. It is a valid request and can be looked into, but it wont end up in banning Bharti just for the sake that someone just woke up and found it offensive because Pakistanis use it.
> 
> As for the usage of religious terms, we have usage of Salafis both as a praise, an insult and general conversation; have not heard any complaints of banning it. I shudder to think why some religious term and that too associated with a very positive diety is an insult unless someone goes really out of their way to do so.
> 
> 
> As for my "death", please remember it is this "dear oscar" who has butted his heads against his countrymen to ensure that Indians are treated fairly and with respect. So pardon me if from now onwards I stop giving a rats arse in that regard as clearly all it buys is people sitting on top of our heads , on what is a PAKISTANI forum, and making hue and cry on absolutely irrelevant issues to actual forum problems just because they feel slighted by a long standing cultural hand me down;



"Bharti" an alleged urdu word in an otherwise all English written post? Isn't the language of post need to be English?

And isn't we can understand the urge to call Indians bharti - being only urdu word in whole post?

The words are never offensive, the intent are. The same case with "P.aki".

I have seen announcement banning use of urdu/hindi or any regional language in sections outside members club but not sure why this urdu term which has its English counterpart is so vehemently protected.



> ESPEICIALLY When there is LITERALLY NO, ZIP, NADA, ZERO , DOES NOT EXIST a counterpart in any Bharatiya owned and run forum that even gives one tenth of the leeway we do and instead engage in open racism, religious insults and outright genocidal suggestions against our country which would make the sanest projectile vomit.



Sorry but no argument I saw here.

Its on YOU what you want forum to be. The one you accused are barren lands, its YOU guys chose not to be one. How can you borrow the same principles from them when you don't want to be like them?

Your own choices can never be someone else burden.

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## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> I am gonna be a little bit blunt here, Joe. @Oscar has clarified it already.
> 
> Indians find many things "very offensive", which are part and parcel of Pakistani life.
> 
> For example:
> 
> Indians find it very offensive that we call Jamu&Kashmir "Indian Occupied Kashmir"
> They find it very offensive that we show Kashmir (including IOK) as part of Pakistan
> They (majority) find it very offensive that we slaughter cows and eat beef
> And now more recently, some of them have started to find "Bharti" - a normal non-derogatory Urdu word - offenisve too.
> 
> To that I just say, sorry lads, we are not gonna change our diet, our PoV and our language, only because you find it "offensive". It is a matter of principle.
> 
> It is very simple, if I go to a forum called "Indian Defence Forum", created and managed by Indians, I'll not start demanding them to stop showing Kashmir as part of India, or stop doing many other things no matter how offensive that might be to me.
> 
> You (Indians) in this case are required to integrate in majority area and not vice versa. This unreasonable demand is analog to all those rigid full Burqa wearing Muslim women who want to live in Europe but find it very offensive that other women are walking around without it.
> 
> Now please lets just move on.



Nobody found it offensive that you call J&K Indian occupied Kashmir, except professional trolls, who come here to disrupt sessions. I do not think you will find a single such reference to such offence being taken by any of the reasonable Indians - there are many - who come to PDF. 

Nobody finds it offensive that you show Kashmir - parts of it or the whole - as part of Pakistan. That would be monumentally silly. These are illusions created by you yourselves around the wholly synthetic posturing of those who mean mischief. By giving in to their tantrums, you are achieving precisely what they want.

There are some who have found references to beef-eating offensive; there are those opposites among you as well, who would like nothing better but to see the bloody end of every pagan around. If you take them to be representative of Indians, including born-Hindus like me who eat beef, I can only smile. It would be a childish reaction.

The word 'Bharti' is, on the other hand, deeply offensive. All the other examples you quoted are paper-thin. None of them were done by Pakistanis to cause offence. You genuinely think India is occupying a territory that is yours; it is that belief that makes you show maps and pictures that we do not agree with. But it is certainly not intended to give offence, any more than having a steak is intended to piss off somebody who reads about it.

That is where the intention to insult comes in. You know very well what the intention is; you yourselves, as a nation, are hypersensitive to the shortened form that now is recognised as pejorative by both the user and the target. To pretend that you have slipped into it, as a natural consequence of speaking Urdu, is ridiculous; knowing that it is offensive, there is absolutely no need to use it unless you wish to use it in precisely its most objectionable sense.

Your threats and blandishments mean nothing or less than nothing. Somebody who had joined less than a few weeks ago instructed me that our numbers were desirable only to enable the administration to make money. Perhaps so, perhaps not. I take it that we have a right to be here. When we have a right to be here, like a Muslim in Britain, we also have a right to voice our candid opinion, whether or not you choose to hector us, about issues that move us. The word that you consciously and deliberately, every man jack of you, use to ridicule us is offensive. If you wish to ignore that and to remind us, with crass lack of grace, that you are the owners and we can find our own football and our own playing ground, go ahead. Each of us will react in our own individual fashion; none can say how. I certainly have no common purpose with the others except to object to a racist and ethnic slur. A foul one.



Oscar said:


> I have already mentioned that corrections to Bharati can be suggested.The term Bharati came straight from a long standing pronunciation within our media since the days of Ghulam Mohammad and has little to do with sneer or otherwise (_ as if suddenly sneering has become offensive to the population of Indians here who spare no bloody chance to do so otherwise at us Pakistanis_).
> 
> If the constitutional spelling for someone from Bharat is Bharatiya; then all that is required is to request that A Bharti Member be spelled as Bharatiya. It is a valid request and can be looked into, but it wont end up in banning Bharti just for the sake that someone just woke up and found it offensive because Pakistanis use it.
> 
> As for the usage of religious terms, we have usage of Salafis both as a praise, an insult and general conversation; have not heard any complaints of banning it. I shudder to think why some religious term and that too associated with a very positive diety is an insult unless someone goes really out of their way to do so.
> 
> 
> As for my "death", please remember it is this "dear oscar" who has butted his heads against his countrymen to ensure that Indians are treated fairly and with respect. So pardon me if from now onwards I stop giving a rats arse in that regard as clearly all it buys is people sitting on top of our heads , on what is a PAKISTANI forum, and making hue and cry on absolutely irrelevant issues to actual forum problems just because they feel slighted by a long standing cultural hand me down;
> ESPEICIALLY When there is LITERALLY NO, ZIP, NADA, ZERO , DOES NOT EXIST a counterpart in any Bharatiya owned and run forum that even gives one tenth of the leeway we do and instead engage in open racism, religious insults and outright genocidal suggestions against our country which would make the sanest projectile vomit.



The complaint about the word is not recent; I have raised it several times. There is no mechanism - there can be none - for these adjustments. Did anyone raise a petition to ban the use of the equivalent phrase? Was it not known and understood as a pejorative? Once a member raises a word and takes offence at it, it is for the management to take a view. As far as I can see, it has taken a view. Whatever that view was born of, it is a position which cannot be denied. If it was based on the foul behaviour of Indian defence sites that are notorious, that, for instance, I abstained from joining in spite of several invitations from their arch-druid, it was because the hatred towards Pakistan and Pakistanis was nauseating, and it was not possible for any decent person to pretend that it did not exist. To take those examples as reasons for ignoring these offences is merely to slip to somewhere closer to their level. 

You talked of sneers and their prevalence. Even this morning, I awarded a negative rating to an Indian who sneered. More than 50% of my negative ratings have been given to offensive people from my own country. Check if you wish. There are some Indians who come here to sneer. Do not, please, tar us with the same brush; that is even more offensive, far, far more offensive than being called Bharti.

Since you believe that a formal petition is necessary, let me ignore what The Doors said; let me pretend that it IS possible to petition the Lord with prayer. *L**et me petition the administration to insist on Bharatiya and not on the insulting version Bharti*.

You mentioned the contradiction between the use of the word as an insult, as some of us found it, and its existence as an alternative name for a Hindu deity. Unfortunately that is flimsy logic. Just because a word exists that has elements of the divine, it does not preclude the ill-minded from using a corruption of another, wholly different word, which makes it sound - not that they knew it or intended it - like the sanctified word, as an insult. The two are independent; those who wished to injure had no idea then, and they have had an idea only through this discussion.

You took hurt at my quoting the Prince. If you had been in a less petulant mood, you might have reflected that it not taunting you with your death. I am appalled at the interpretation given. I am appalled that you can think me capable of it. *It was my mourning of the passing of a phase in the forum, a phase when we felt well-protected, indeed, defended by the moderators, not against the extreme elements of the Pakistani, but strangely enough, against the extreme elements among the Indians. And that passing is precisely what makes your ending the most difficult to read and to remember, the most bitter of all the words that have been exchanged.* 

Were all of you blind and deaf to the clear indications that decent Indians DID NOT believe in open racism, religious insults and outright genocidal suggestions against your country that would make the sanest projectile - what is it that brings a projectile to the tip of every Pakistani's tongue when he is enraged? - vomit? did you not get it, do you not get it, even now, that those who indulge in that kind of nauseating anti-social behaviour are precisely those cowering quietly, hoping for the storm to blow over, so that they can continue to wreck every conversation that starts, and can damn every Indian that reaches his hand forward as a Quisling? If that is how strongly you and others feel about those swine - swine they are and swine is what I will call them, knowing that it is illicit - then is it not all the more reason why you should listen with some understanding and sympathy to those who do not belong to that camp? Instead, what did we get? A rain of abuse? Even half-baked teenagers have now got into the act, and have the presumption to tell us what we may or may not do. If that had been the atmosphere at the outset, dear Sir, trust me, none of us with any self-respect would have darkened your doors.



Levina said:


> Had this issue been raised by you I don't think our dear mod would have vehemently opposed it the way he did when it was raised by a "fool" called moi.
> Lol



A plain question to you - why is that so? 

Do you realise that this is a question worth pondering over? Do you realise that keeping to a straight and narrow path, treading the razor's edge, is not an easy thing? That most of us are self-indulgent and allow ourselves to drift with the prevailing current? Or perhaps you believe that this is a fruit of sycophancy? That a right-thinking, right-feeling Indian can never have the attention of the decent Pakistanis on this forum, that such a thing is plain impossible?

I have always found my fellow Indians to be the greatest obstructions to the forum, and that is why we are not heard; we are seen as a pestilence. And the horrors that we inflict on Pakistanis on our fora are brought up and thrown in our faces again and again. Not something to be proud of.

Remember when I tried to persuade them (Pakistani members, led by @RAMPAGE ) to petition the Government of India to strive for peace, and wrote a memorial faithfully shadowing their thoughts? Just look at what @coffee_cup has said in his Nelsonic manner above and compare it with what I had argued. And remember that the reward for that attempt at putting ourselves in their shoes to write as they would write got me called Jaichand. You should remember, you were part of those cheering the attack.


----------



## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> Nobody found it offensive that you call J&K Indian occupied Kashmir, except professional trolls, who come here to disrupt sessions. I do not think you will find a single such reference to such offence being taken by any of the reasonable Indians - there are many - who come to PDF.
> 
> Nobody finds it offensive that you show Kashmir - parts of it or the whole - as part of Pakistan. That would be monumentally silly. These are illusions created by you yourselves around the wholly synthetic posturing of those who mean mischief. By giving in to their tantrums, you are achieving precisely what they want.
> 
> There are some who have found references to beef-eating offensive; there are those opposites among you as well, who would like nothing better but to see the bloody end of every pagan around. If you take them to be representative of Indians, including born-Hindus like me who eat beef, I can only smile. It would be a childish reaction.
> 
> The word 'Bharti' is, on the other hand, deeply offensive. All the other examples you quoted are paper-thin. None of them were done by Pakistanis to cause offence. You genuinely think India is occupying a territory that is yours; it is that belief that makes you show maps and pictures that we do not agree with. But it is certainly not intended to give offence, any more than having a steak is intended to piss off somebody who reads about it.
> 
> That is where the intention to insult comes in. You know very well what the intention is; you yourselves, as a nation, are hypersensitive to the shortened form that now is recognised as pejorative by both the user and the target. To pretend that you have slipped into it, as a natural consequence of speaking Urdu, is ridiculous; knowing that it is offensive, there is absolutely no need to use it unless you wish to use it in precisely its most objectionable sense.
> 
> Your threats and blandishments mean nothing or less than nothing. Somebody who had joined less than a few weeks ago instructed me that our numbers were desirable only to enable the administration to make money. Perhaps so, perhaps not. I take it that we have a right to be here. When we have a right to be here, like a Muslim in Britain, we also have a right to voice our candid opinion, whether or not you choose to hector us, about issues that move us. The word that you consciously and deliberately, every man jack of you, use to ridicule us is offensive. If you wish to ignore that and to remind us, with crass lack of grace, that you are the owners and we can find our own football and our own playing ground, go ahead. Each of us will react in our own individual fashion; none can say how. I certainly have no common purpose with the others except to object to a racist and ethnic slur. A foul one.



Now, Joe, even though I appreciate your arguments on some issues, in this particular issue I think you are arguing just for the sake of argument. And it is deeply offensive to me that you are asking me to change my national language by stopping to use "Bharat" or "Bharti". Similarly it is extremely offensive for us that you (Indians) show Kashmir as part of India or lay claim to our heritage OR "play the victim of terrorism card". 

"Paper-thin" for you, deeply offensive for us. Now can you demand your fellow countrymen to stop doing that, because this is very very offensive to us Pakistanis?

I can go on...

You are trying to enforce Indian rules on PDF, and we can not accept that. Try to understand our point of view, we come here on a Pakistani forum to interact with Pakistanis and share our opinions. Majority of us are showing a great degree of restrain (some exceptions aside) while addressing India. Oh you have no idea, what words would I love to use to address Modi and all those fanatics sitting in your govt!. But can I do that? No! Because PDF has put strict restrains on Pakistanis.

Compare PDF with any Indian managed forum and see for yourself the difference.

There are no "threats and blandishments". Just few facts to make you see things from our perspective.

You and many sane Indians (like the ones I used to work with) are welcome to put your case. Just don't force us to change our way of life! 

Ps.: This is anyway not my forum, I am just a user. Had it been my forum, I would have given outright bans to all those trolls displaying wrong maps by showing Kashmir as part of India, laying claims to our heritage or doing Indian propaganda here (like that of "SirGKal" strikes).

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## RAMPAGE

@Joe Shearer

You should disregard Oscar's indulgence in this cheeky flamboyance. This is something that even the very best from the US are susceptible to. Can't blame them really. Having 90000-ton ACs stationed around the globe makes it your prerogative.  Let's not make too much of this. We all have our personalities. It wouldn't be any fun to read Oscar's posts if that weren't the case.


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## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> Now, Joe, even though I appreciate your arguments on some issues, in this particular issue I think you are arguing just for the sake of argument. And it is deeply offensive to me that you are asking me to change my national language by stopping to use "Bharat" or "Bharti". Similarly it is extremely offensive for us that you (Indians) show Kashmir as part of India or lay claim to our heritage OR "play the victim of terrorism card".
> 
> "Paper-thin" for you, deeply offensive for us. Now can you demand your fellow countrymen to stop doing that, because this is very very offensive to us Pakistanis?



On their fora, I can. Not on your forum.



> I can go on...



Do. 

Do I look like having either the capacity or the inclination to stop you?



> You are trying to enforce Indian rules on PDF, and we can not accept that.



ABSOLUTELY not. I am merely pointing out that a word you use is offensive to us. What you do thereafter is up to you. As you never tire of reminding us, even those of us who have contributed substantially to the reputation and the quality of your forum, it IS your forum. We are mere guests. So do what you wish. 

Surely you are not saying that because this is your forum we are to go around with ours tongues bound?



> Try to understand our point of view, we come here on a Pakistani forum to interact with Pakistanis and share our opinions. Majority of us are showing a great degree of restrain (some exceptions aside) while addressing India. Oh you have no idea, what words would I love to use to address Modi and all those fanatics sitting in your govt!. But can I do that? No! Because PDF has put strict restrains on Pakistanis.



And are similar and symmetric restraints not put on the unruly among the Indians? I have never felt any constraint; whatever I wished to say I have said. But the belligerent on both sides?



> Compare PDF with any Indian managed forum and see for yourself the difference.



I have, I was sickened, and that's why I am exclusively here and not there.



> There are no "threats and blandishments". Just few facts to make you see things from our perspective.
> 
> You and many sane Indians (like the ones I used to work with) are welcome to put your case. Just don't force us to change our way of life!
> 
> Ps.: This is anyway not my forum, I am just a user. Had it been my forum, I would have given outright bans to all those trolls displaying wrong maps by showing Kashmir as part of India, laying claims to our heritage or doing Indian propaganda here (like that of "SirGKal" strikes).



NOBODY has asked you or anyone else to change your way of life. Some of us have on the contrary admonished and chided Indian members. Go among the Indian trolls and ask them, whom do they hate most? Confirm it for yourself, it is only sometimes a Pakistani.



RAMPAGE said:


> @Joe Shearer
> 
> You should disregard Oscar's indulgence in this cheeky flamboyance. This is something that even the very best from the US are susceptible to. Can't blame them really. Having 90000-ton ACs stationed around the globe makes it your prerogative.  Let's not make too much of this. We all have our personalities. It wouldn't be any fun to read Oscar's posts if that weren't the case.



I continue to admire and respect him, second only to @niaz Sahib. They are in a class of their own.

You must remember that I come from a breed that cannot hold their tongues.


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## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> Since you believe that a formal petition is necessary, let me ignore what The Doors said; let me pretend that it IS possible to petition the Lord with prayer. *L**et me petition the administration to insist on Bharatiya and not on the insulting version Bharti*.



*And I put a rival petition to the administration not to restrict the use of "Bharti", because this is a perfectly non-derogatory word used in Urdu literature. *

Otherwise you set a dangerous precedent that every now and then someone will come up with another petition to ban some other Urdu word, because it is "insulting" to them for whatever reason.


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## Stag112

coffee_cup said:


> *And I put a rival petition to the administration not to restrict the use of "Bharti", because this is a perfectly non-derogatory word used in Urdu literature. *
> 
> Otherwise you set a dangerous precedent that every now and then someone will come up with another petition to ban some other Urdu word, because it is "insulting" to them for whatever reason.



I agree, it should be used in Urdu, not English.

Otherwise we must call your overlords cheeni- a perfectly good Urdu word too 

But you are a pakistani, so hypocrisy is just a way of life lol!


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## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> *And I put a rival petition to the administration not to restrict the use of "Bharti", because this is a perfectly non-derogatory word used in Urdu literature. *
> 
> Otherwise you set a dangerous precedent that every now and then someone will come up with another petition to ban some other Urdu word, because it is "insulting" to them for whatever reason.



In that case, use Urdu. Don't use English.

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## coffee_cup

Stag112 said:


> I agree, it should be used in Urdu, not English.





Joe Shearer said:


> In that case, use Urdu. Don't use English.



Pakistanis mostly use "Urdenglish", a kind of Pakistani English, where so many Urdu words are often used within English sentences.

Every 2nd-3rd Post by Pakistanis is a prime example of that. Nothing wrong with it.

Just like nothing wrong with using "Denglish" (German version of English).


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## Stag112

Admin should allow posting in Hinglish etc officially.



coffee_cup said:


> Pakistanis mostly use "Urdenglish", a kind of Pakistani English, where so many Urdu words are often used within English sentences.
> 
> Every 2nd-3rd Post by Pakistanis is a prime example of that. Nothing wrong with it.



Cheeni pakistan economic corridor. Sounds good.


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## 911

Distorting Bharatiya to Bharati is same as distorting Pak to ****. But unlike ****, Bharti is not an offensive word. Thosw who use Bharati instead of Bharatiya are ignorant about the actual word, that includes Pakistani media.


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## coffee_cup

Stag112 said:


> Pa
> 
> 
> Cheeni pakistan economic corridor. Sounds good.



Why should I have problems with that?

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## untitled

Stag112 said:


> Cheeni pakistan economic corridor. Sounds good.


Lol you seriously think that someone will find that offensive?

@Chinese-Dragon himself has posted the following slogan several times
"_Hindi Cheeni bhai bhai_"
ie when he was recalling an era when SinoIndo relations were improving

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## RAMPAGE

As a kid, when I would neglect some chore assigned to me, my old man would say, Get up! Don't be a _Bharti Sipahi. _A seemingly innocent remark, (as innocent as a _Sardar _joke made in the absence of a Sikh) remnant of a time when political correctness was perhaps not always the primary concern, which would indeed be in very bad taste, were it to be made in the presence of an Indian. You must realize here that such indulgences are the unsavoury fruit of the same thought process which suggested that one Pakistani Muslim soldier is equal to 10 Hindu Indian soldiers and the one that invented the evil _Hindu Bania._ While such indulgences may seem harmless in the grand scheme of things, In reality, they are the continuation of the installation of hatred and bigotry that has been handed down to us by previous generations. This forum is joined by impressionable youngsters which are supposed to steer our countries out of this primitive mess that is the South Asia of today. Will they be able to do so if they too are plagued with this curse of hatred and bigotry?

Always give your fellow members the benefit of the doubt. We all expect others to behave respectfully to us when we haven't given them a reason to do otherwise. Please show civility, etiquette, and respect when you converse with someone. If you think that they don't deserve your respect, by all means, ignore them. Treat people as you would treat them in real life. If someone tells you that they don't like to be called by a certain name then don't call them by that name. Isn't that what you would do in real life?* If some thinks that I'm being a hypocrite here (I probably am. I cannot always do what I preach) then I would ask their forgiveness.*

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## untitled

911 said:


> Thosw who use Bharati instead of Bharatiya are ignorant about the



Calling regional/lingual variation ignorance is an example of ignorance in itself. Words ending with -tiya are usually Sanskrit in origin. Like _Bhartiya_ and _Vikramditya_.



> actual word, that includes Pakistani media.



Why blame the media? I dare you find a single Pakistani printed Urdu book where residents of _Bharat_ are referred to as _Bharatiyas_. It is _Bharati_ everywhere unless someone is writing BJP in Urdu.

It was on PDF I found the Indians took offence to the word.

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## Soumitra

member.exe said:


> Calling regional/lingual variation ignorance is an example of ignorance in itself. Words ending with -tiya are usually Sanskrit in origin. Like _Bhartiya_ and _Vikramditya_.
> 
> 
> 
> Why blame the media? I dare you find a single Pakistani printed Urdu book where residents of _Bharat_ are referred to as _Bharatiyas_. It is _Bharati_ everywhere unless someone is writing BJP in Urdu.
> 
> It was on PDF I found the Indians took offence to the word.


In Indian Urdu it i always called Hindustani or Bharatiya. I have never heard of any Indian Muslim speaking the word Bharati


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## untitled

Soumitra said:


> I have never heard of any Indian Muslim speaking the word Bharati


We are talking of Pakistani Urdu are we not? Languages have variations. The Americans have their own way of spelling words in English and the British their own. Does not mean both are wrong or only one is correct.

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## -xXx-

RAMPAGE said:


> As a kid, when I would neglect some chore assigned to me, my old man would say, Get up! Don't be a _Bharti Sipahi. _A seemingly innocent remark, (as innocent as a _Sardar _joke made in the absence of a Sikh) remnant of a time when political correctness was perhaps not always the primary concern, which would indeed be in very bad taste, were it to be made in the presence of an Indian. You must realize here that such indulgences are the unsavoury fruit of the same thought process which suggested that one Pakistani Muslim soldier is equal to 10 Hindu Indian soldiers and the one that invented the evil _Hindu Bania._ While such indulgences may seem harmless in the grand scheme of things, In reality, they are the continuation of the installation of hatred and bigotry that has been handed down to us by previous generations. This forum is joined by impressionable youngsters which are supposed to steer our countries out of this primitive mess that is the South Asia of today. Will they be able to do so if they too are plagued with this curse of hatred and bigotry?
> 
> Always give your fellow members the benefit of the doubt. We all expect others to behave respectfully to us when we haven't given them a reason to do otherwise. Please show civility, etiquette, and respect when you converse with someone. If you think that they don't deserve your respect, by all means, ignore them. Treat people as you would treat them in real life. If someone tells you that they don't like to be called by a certain name then don't call them by that name. Isn't that what you would do in real life?* If some thinks that I'm being a hypocrite here (I probably am. I cannot always do what I preach) then I would ask their forgiveness.*



Post of the thread !! Thank You.

As we all know, *its not the word but intent which is offensive*. The simplest and purest of the word with sneer can be contemptuous.


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## Marshmallow

SHUT UP all and get real.. this is just a forum! now this is some inappropriate language

Pdfians be Like ...Oyein Oyein ush ni mujeh aeeysha kion bula tu mey ney ush ko ye bula tu ye bula tu wo bula 

ishtupids

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## WAJsal

I think we have given 'tiya' and a 'ti' in a word far too much importance. Just use Indians and everyone is happy. 
And here i thought members would make suggestions, fighting and fighting...

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## coffee_cup

WAJsal said:


> I think we have given 'tiya' and a 'ti' in a word far too much importance. Just use Indians and everyone is happy.
> And here i thought members would make suggestions, fighting and fighting...



Want to make an elephant out of a fly?

Invite some hyper-sensitive Indians to the discussion/suggestion. You'll find out, everything that you have been doing in your life was wrong! Trouble fully programmed!

I suggest an official warning to anyone displaying distorted maps where Kashmir is shown as part of India;
Or any Indian laying claims to our heritage (such as Ghandhara and IVC);
Or glorifying Indian sponsored terrorism in the region (such as Mukti Bahini, LTTE, BLA, TTP).

This is pure profanity!


PS: To be politically correct: I said "some hyper-sensitive", now lets see how does that one go...


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## coffee_cup

xTra said:


> Why should Azad Kashmir be shown along with Pakistan.



Because Kashmir is part of Pakistan.


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## coffee_cup

xTra said:


> But I thought it was Azad Kashmir



This is a suggestions thread, I can give you a complete history lesson about autonomous territories of Pakistan, open a new thread about that.


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## xTra

coffee_cup said:


> This is a suggestions thread, I can give you a complete history lesson about autonomous territories of Pakistan, open a new thread about that.



Why bring Kashmir in Suggestion thread...........History of Kashmir from you ......enough said..............Azad Kashmir.............what a joke.


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## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> Want to make an elephant out of a fly?
> 
> Invite some hyper-sensitive Indians to the discussion/suggestion. You'll find out, everything that you have been doing in your life was wrong! Trouble fully programmed!
> 
> I suggest an official warning to anyone displaying distorted maps where Kashmir is shown as part of India;
> Or any Indian laying claims to our heritage (such as Ghandhara and IVC);
> Or glorifying Indian sponsored terrorism in the region (such as Mukti Bahini, LTTE, BLA, TTP).
> 
> This is pure profanity!
> 
> 
> PS: To be politically correct: I said "some hyper-sensitive", now lets see how does that one go...



To be correct, O purely profaned one, it is Gandhara, not Ghandhara. If you even knew anything about what you falsely claim as your heritage.


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## Levina

Joe Shearer said:


> Do you realise that keeping to a straight and narrow path, treading the razor's edge, is not an easy thing?


Ofcourse! 



Joe Shearer said:


> Or perhaps you believe that this is a fruit of sycophancy?


Lol
I dont remember calling you a sycophant but I do believe that your threshold for accepting criticism from Indians is pretty low. 
BUT this can be discussed in detail on a more appropriate thread as i do not want to deviate from the topic. 



Joe Shearer said:


> Remember when I tried to persuade them (Pakistani members, led by @RAMPAGE ) to petition the Government of India to strive for peace, and wrote a memorial faithfully shadowing their thoughts?


Oh ! I do. But it wasnt merely limited to striving for peace. In your attempt to convince both sides, you offended Indians. 
Sorry to say, that I find it very hard to gulp down the word with which you described Wani. I am a piddly human being and find it hard to stretch my thoughts to the higher plane like you do. 


Joe Shearer said:


> You should remember, you were part of those cheering the attack.


Cheering the attack?
I tried explaining it to you where you failed on that thread, but failed miserably. This is NOT the place to discuss it. 

My previous post on this thread >>>


Levina said:


> Had this issue been raised by you I don't think our dear mod would have vehemently opposed it the way he did when it was raised by a "fool" called moi.
> Lol



was not about you but the *mod.

*


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## Joe Shearer

Levina said:


> Ofcourse!
> 
> 
> Lol
> I dont remember calling you a sycophant but I do believe that your threshold for accepting criticism from Indians is pretty low.
> BUT this can be discussed in detail on a more appropriate thread as i do not want to deviate from the topic.
> 
> 
> Oh ! I do. But it wasnt merely limited to striving for peace. In your attempt to convince both sides, you offended Indians.
> Sorry to say, that I find it very hard to gulp down the word with which you described Wani. I am a piddly human being and find it hard to stretch my thoughts to the higher plane like you do.
> 
> Cheering the attack?
> I tried explaining it to you where you failed on that thread, but failed miserably. This is NOT the place to discuss it.
> 
> My previous post on this thread >>>
> 
> 
> was not about you but the *mod.
> *



This is where I feel defeated. I explained carefully, patiently, making allowances for the thickening that affects a certain kind of mentality (not yours, the person who led the Loyal Opposition), that it was my impression of the nearest acceptable term that might be acceptable to Pakistanis. It was not my word to describe Wani, it was my effort to find a word that they would use to describe Wani. As far as I am concerned, a terrorist was shot down, his elimination was handled badly, with excessive publicity where just silence would have been better, and my thinking about that was very clear. My thinking about the wording of a petition by the Pakistani members interested was also very clear; two drafts were run by them, and changes incorporated. 

A classic case of shooting the messenger, in this case, the draftsman.

And then you complain that my threshold for accepting criticism from Indians is pretty low. 

Wow.


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## Levina

Joe Shearer said:


> This is where I feel defeated. I explained carefully, patiently, making allowances for the thickening that affects a certain kind of mentality (not yours, the person who led the Loyal Opposition), that it was my impression of the nearest acceptable term that might be acceptable to Pakistanis. It was not my word to describe Wani, it was my effort to find a word that they would use to describe Wani. As far as I am concerned, a terrorist was shot down, his elimination was handled badly, with excessive publicity where just silence would have been better, and my thinking about that was very clear. My thinking about the wording of a petition by the Pakistani members interested was also very clear; two drafts were run by them, and changes incorporated.
> 
> A classic case of shooting the messenger, in this case, the draftsman.
> 
> And then you complain that my threshold for accepting criticism from Indians is pretty low.
> 
> Wow.


I'm NOT discussing this here Joe. 

Just a humble reminder that me and you are here to object to the usuage of the word BHARATI on the forum, in an offensive manner.


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## Joe Shearer

Levina said:


> I'm NOT discussing this here Joe.
> 
> Just a humble reminder that me and you are here to object to the usuage of the word BHARATI on the forum, in an offensive manner.



Roger.

Over and out.


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## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> To be correct, O purely profaned one, it is Gandhara, not Ghandhara.



Ok sir, please do not execute me for making a presumed typo.

First of all, English is not my first language, I learnt it as a foreign language and am bound to make mistakes. Secondly, not being a pure English word, you will find several spelling variations of "Ghandhara" or "Gandhara" .

I know however how it is written in my native language Urdu.



Joe Shearer said:


> If you even knew anything about what you *falsely claim* as your heritage.



Now you are offending me, my Bharti friend.


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## Sher-e-India

coffee_cup said:


> Ok sir, please do not execute me for making a presumed typo.
> 
> First of all, English is not my first language, I learnt it as a foreign language and am bound to make mistakes. Secondly, not being a pure English word, you will find several spelling variations of "Ghandhara" or "Gandhara" .
> 
> I know however how it is written in my native language Urdu.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are offending me, my Bharti friend.


You can tell Joe Sir that "ge" sound in Urdu is not present instead we have "ghoin" hence the usage in Roman Urdu. Btw, I don't find "Bharti" offensive its standard khari boli in Haryana lol

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## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> Ok sir, please do not execute me for making a presumed typo.
> 
> First of all, English is not my first language, I learnt it as a foreign language and am bound to make mistakes. Secondly, not being a pure English word, *you will find several spelling variations of "Ghandhara" or "Gandhara" .*
> 
> I know however how it is written in my native language Urdu.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are offending me, my Bharti friend.



Let's get down and dirty: enough originating from your side, so learn to take it.

Gandhara is not an English word at all, it is a Sanskrit word. In Sanskrit, 'G' and 'Gh' are distinct sounds, and cannot be confused. Converting from the Sanskrit to the English can by no stretch of the imagination yield a Ghandhara. In brief, unless you use diacritical marks, you cannot land up with spelling variations of Gandhara.

As for the sting in the tail, it had its desired effect. Mogambo khush huwa.



Joe Shearer said:


> Let's get down and dirty: enough originating from your side, so learn to take it.
> 
> Gandhara is not an English word at all, it is a Sanskrit word. In Sanskrit, 'G' and 'Gh' are distinct sounds, and cannot be confused. Converting from the Sanskrit to the English can by no stretch of the imagination yield a Ghandhara. In brief, unless you use diacritical marks, you cannot land up with spelling variations of Gandhara.
> 
> As for the sting in the tail, it had its desired effect. Mogambo khush huwa.



Afterwords, in other words, a post-script: @Sher-e-India is precisely correct. Your troubles originate when you take a word coined in a different language to your current vernacular, and then try to translate/transliterate it into English.

Does it put into a nutshell, my dear @coffee_cup , what I wanted to say through my superficially offensive remark? It was superficially offensive because although I wrote it to be offensive and in my irritation at your stand on the word 'bharti', there is a great deal of meat to it. It depends on whether you concentrate on the meat of it or on the offence.

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## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> Let's get down and dirty: enough originating from your side, so learn to take it.
> 
> Gandhara is not an English word at all, it is a Sanskrit word. In Sanskrit, 'G' and 'Gh' are distinct sounds, and cannot be confused. Converting from the Sanskrit to the English can by no stretch of the imagination yield a Ghandhara. In brief, unless you use diacritical marks, you cannot land up with spelling variations of Gandhara.
> 
> As for the sting in the tail, it had its desired effect. Mogambo khush huwa.



And?

Urdu language is known for containing words from several other languages, just like English or any other modern language for that matter. My forefathers spoke Sanskrit, and some other primitive language before that. With generations we evolved, learnt and adopted other languages, big deal? Are you speaking the original language that first people from Bengal/Mumbai (or where ever you live) spoke?

I can write Gandhara or Ghandhara, Harrapa or Harappa, Mohanjo Daro or Mohanjjo Daro, Muhammed, Mohammad none is correct or incorrect per se, since adopted from another language. In some cases, even in original languages you will find slight variations going from one region to the other.

Making deliberate distortion of facts on the basis of this paper-thin argument? I had expected better from you, Joe.



Joe Shearer said:


> Does it put into a nutshell, my dear @coffee_cup , what I wanted to say through my superficially offensive remark? It was superficially offensive because although I wrote it to be offensive and in my irritation at your stand on the word 'bharti', there is a great deal of meat to it. It depends on whether you concentrate on the meat of it or on the offence.



Distortion of history is extremely offensive. The party you are trying to offend by this distortion can laugh it out for it being completely silly, if coming from some "average Joe", or can take real offense if the person making it is a proclaimed "academic Joe".

Tell Egyptians that their claim to Egyptian civilization is false and "Indians" are the rightful inheritors. The reaction could be a roaring laugther or an angry protest, depending who says it.

PS: If you continue this "blasphemy", this distortion of history. I'll just ignore it, considering it some non-serious outbursts of profanity, not to bother about.


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## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> And?
> 
> Urdu language is known for containing words from several other languages, just like English or any other modern language for that matter. My forefathers spoke Sanskrit, and some other primitive language before that. With generations we evolved, learnt and adopted other languages, big deal? Are you speaking the original language that first people from Bengal/Mumbai (or where ever you live) spoke?
> 
> I can write Gandhara or Ghandhara, Harrapa or Harappa, Mohanjo Daro or Mohanjjo Daro, Muhammed, Mohammad none is correct or incorrect per se, since adopted from another language. In some cases, even in original languages you will find slight variations going from one region to the other.
> 
> Making deliberate distortion of facts on the basis of this paper-thin argument? I had expected better from you, Joe.



That was evasive, not substantive. It wasn't the grammar that I pointed out to you, it was the alphabet, the letters. The word remains what it was; it might, as a living place, have acquired other names. In fact, it has. But when you are referring to the original, you cannot shelter behind the contention that contemporary orthography, in contemporary script, does not allow the original or demands a change. 



> Distortion of history is extremely offensive. The party you are trying to offend by this distortion can laugh it out for it being completely silly, if coming from some "average Joe", or can take real offense if the person making it is a proclaimed "academic Joe".
> 
> Tell Egyptians that their claim to Egyptian civilization is false and "Indians" are the rightful inheritors. The reaction could be a roaring laugther or an angry protest, depending who says it.



I wouldn't tell Egyptians that. I would say so only if I had a case to put. I do. When you are in the right frame of mind, and not traducing Indians calling them bharti, I will explain.

Your second sentence read very ironic, on this thread. Very ironic. How strange that you savagely attack a principle in one place, then, in the same thread, draw yourself up to your full height and defend it.

I read and spoke Gurkhali from the age of 7. I studied in Bengali till Class VIII. Subsequently I learnt some other languages. One little couplet I remember from one of those languages is one that you might find useful to imbibe and to follow:

O what a tangled web we weave
When first we set out to deceive.

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## Grevion

Joe Shearer said:


> That was evasive, not substantive. It wasn't the grammar that I pointed out to you, it was the alphabet, the letters. The word remains what it was; it might, as a living place, have acquired other names. In fact, it has. But when you are referring to the original, you cannot shelter behind the contention that contemporary orthography, in contemporary script, does not allow the original or demands a change.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't tell Egyptians that. I would say so only if I had a case to put. I do. When you are in the right frame of mind, and not traducing Indians calling them bharti, I will explain.
> 
> Your second sentence read very ironic, on this thread. Very ironic. How strange that you savagely attack a principle in one place, then, in the same thread, draw yourself up to your full height and defend it.
> 
> I read and spoke Gurkhali from the age of 7. I studied in Bengali till Class VIII. Subsequently I learnt some other languages. One little couplet I remember from one of those languages is one that you might find useful to imbibe and to follow:
> 
> O what a tangled web we weave
> When first we set out to deceive.


Hey joe! the VC of the NALSAR university of law was on the NDTV(Hindi) primetime with Rawish Kumar last night. They had a very meaningful discussion on the uniform and common civil laws in India. Did you missed that show??


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## Joe Shearer

litefire said:


> Hey joe! the VC of the NALSAR university of law was on the NDTV(Hindi) primetime with Rawish Kumar last night. They had a very meaningful discussion on the uniform and common civil laws in India. Did you missed that show??



I don't watch TV.

I used to be a fan of Faizan Mustafa, until I joined NALSAR. No longer.

What was the programme like? It must have been on the Uniform Civil Code. Faizan has been soft pedalling things this whole year, because he does not want to annoy the BJP; his re-appointment is coming up, and he already has one strike against him, and a nasty lobby working hard to put their own candidate in place (this other chap is a pure disaster, the worst of the worst).

Having said all that, Faizan Sahib remains in the front rank of the country's intellectuals. He is outstanding.

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## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> That was evasive, not substantive. It wasn't the grammar that I pointed out to you, it was the alphabet, the letters. The word remains what it was; it might, as a living place, have acquired other names. In fact, it has. But when you are referring to the original, you cannot shelter behind the contention that contemporary orthography, in contemporary script, does not allow the original or demands a change.
> 
> I wouldn't tell Egyptians that. I would say so only if I had a case to put. I do. When you are in the right frame of mind, and not traducing Indians calling them bharti, I will explain.
> 
> Your second sentence read very ironic, on this thread. Very ironic. How strange that you savagely attack a principle in one place, then, in the same thread, draw yourself up to your full height and defend it.
> 
> I read and spoke Gurkhali from the age of 7. I studied in Bengali till Class VIII. Subsequently I learnt some other languages. One little couplet I remember from one of those languages is one that you might find useful to imbibe and to follow:
> 
> O what a tangled web we weave
> When first we set out to deceive.



What is substantive for you, Joe? The same base for an argument as you adopted for Kashmir and Junaghardh? That is, "Heads I win, Tails, you lose"? 

And everything else is evasive?

Because if you are, we can spare us this all. 

And here at the end, since I read, speak and write German just as good as English, I'll quote Friedrich Nietzsche for you:

"*It is very noble hypocrisy not to talk of one's self.*"


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## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> What is substantive for you, Joe? The same base for an argument as you adopted for Kashmir and Junaghardh? That is, "Heads I win, Tails, you lose"?
> 
> And everything else is evasive?
> 
> Because if you are, we can spare us this all.
> 
> And here at the end, since I read, speak and write German just as good as English, I'll quote Friedrich Nietzsche for you:
> 
> "*It is very noble hypocrisy not to talk of one's self.*"



What is substantive is that you cannot reproduce the word correctly because of the script that you use, not the grammar, not the language, the script. Saying that you once spoke something else, and then spoke something different, and finally came to where you are doesn't address this point, so it is evasive; it evades the issue and directs our attention somewhere else.

It is sad that when you find no more arguments, you start classifying mine. Instead, it would be worthwhile, for the purposes of the quality of the discussion, although not necessarily for the dash that you might wish to cut among your own fan-boys (you will notice that I do not have that need and never had that questionable benefit), if you stopped talking about issues where you could not make headway. Let us talk about Gandhara, and why you cannot spell it the way it ought to be, or, if you prefer, let us talk about why we feel offended about 'bharti', and that is meretricious, but you can feel offended about P a k i, and that is genuine. 

Double standards, much, @coffee_cup ?


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## Grevion

Joe Shearer said:


> I don't watch TV.
> 
> I used to be a fan of Faizan Mustafa, until I joined NALSAR. No longer.


You don't watch TV?? What about those Pogo and Spongebob Squarepants stuff??


Joe Shearer said:


> What was the programme like? It must have been on the Uniform Civil Code. Faizan has been soft pedalling things this whole year, because he does not want to annoy the BJP; his re-appointment is coming up, and he already has one strike against him, and a nasty lobby working hard to put their own candidate in place (this other chap is a pure disaster, the worst of the worst).
> 
> Having said all that, Faizan Sahib remains in the front rank of the country's intellectuals. He is outstanding.


Yep it was on uniform civil code and the Muslim and Hindu personal laws. He explained brilliantly about the Muslim laws and how they differ in different states of India say Punjab, UP or Goa. I was quite astonished to know that some small sections of Muslims in India are still governed by the centuries old Hindu laws.

He did make a lot of sense on Muslim personal laws then those Ulema or personal law board guys.

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## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> What is substantive is that you cannot reproduce the word correctly because of the script that you use, not the grammar, not the language, the script. Saying that you once spoke something else, and then spoke something different, and finally came to where you are doesn't address this point, so it is evasive; it evades the issue and directs our attention somewhere else.



You are mixing apples with organges.

No matter how I spell it in "Roman Urdu" script _(Ghandhara_ or _Gandhara_"), in* "*Urdu Nastaʿlīq" both *phonetically* and in *written* script it remains the same term "گندھارا" adopted and agreed upon by our linguistic scholars.

Whereas in case of _Bharti_ and _Bhartiya_, the difference is huge. Here you are asking me to change my langue both in writen (Roman or Nasta'liq script) and spoken way.



Joe Shearer said:


> It is sad that when you find no more arguments, you start classifying mine. ...




Alright sir, it was me who started the classification of arguments - "evassive" and "substantive" and continuing to do so ...


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## Joe Shearer

litefire said:


> You don't watch TV?? What about those Pogo and Spingbob Squarepants stuff??
> 
> Yep it was on uniform civil code and the Muslim and Hindu personal laws. He explained brilliantly about the Muslim laws and how they differ in different states of India say Punjab, UP or Goa. I was quite astonished to know that some small sections of Muslims in India are still governed by the centuries old Hindu laws.
> 
> He did make a lot of sense on Muslim personal laws then those Ulema or personal law board guys.



He is beyond brilliant. Chap like that should have been a judge or a minister. Meos near Delhi and some converted Rajputs are still governed by Hindu law. Also some Kutchhi Memons. Did he mention these, or was it too short?



coffee_cup said:


> You are mixing apples with organges.
> 
> No matter how I spell it in "Roman Urdu" script _(Ghandhara_ or _Gandhara_"), in* "*Urdu Nastaʿlīq" both *phonetically* and in *written* script it remains the same term "گندھارا" adopted and agreed upon by our linguistic scholars.
> 
> Whereas in case of _Bharti_ and _Bhartiya_, the difference is huge. Here you are asking me to change my langue both in writen (Roman or Nasta'liq script) and spoken way.



I was - and am - making a serious point: even an insult, when I use one, is not a mindless piece of brutality. This was far from that; this was a serious comment. 

The test is whether from Roman Urdu to Nasta'liq and in reverse, the spelling stays the same. It doesn't. In the case of Nagari, it does.

Regarding Bharti and Bhartiya (correctly, translating from Nagari, BharAtiya), I am not asking you to change anything. I am asking you to refrain from a certain usage in a particular context. A passport officer scrutinising my passport and asking me if I'm Bharti would not be intending offence. Would you like me to cull passages from your compatriots' posts and show you the difference?



> Alright sir, it was me who started the classification of arguments - "evassive" and "substantive" and continuing to do so ...



That was a low blow. You know very well what I meant.


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## coffee_cup

Joe Shearer said:


> The test is whether from Roman Urdu to Nasta'liq and in reverse, the spelling stays the same. It doesn't. In the case of Nagari, it does.



You mean phonetically written (translated) from one language to other, right?

In this case "Bharti" stays same in Nasta'liq and Roman scripts. Just like in Nagari (BharAtiya). So your test applied with same criteria to both Nasta'liq and Nagari (for translation to Roman) will produce same results.

I am ready to research in Internet about Nagari and find several examples where the phonetically equivalent spelling of one word from Nagari to Roman will have several variations (just in case you want to bring "Gandhara" again). So lets leave it there.



Joe Shearer said:


> Regarding Bharti and Bhartiya (correctly, translating from Nagari, BharAtiya), I am not asking you to change anything. I am asking you to refrain from a certain usage in a particular context. A passport officer scrutinising my passport and asking me if I'm Bharti would not be intending offence. Would you like me to cull passages from your compatriots' posts and show you the difference?



The context matters in almost every case and not limited to "Bharti".

"Is he your father?" could be a normal innocent query or an insult if used in a particular context.

So here I agree with you that we should be careful about using words purely to insult others. But it applies to almost every term.

Just for record: My usage of "Bharti friends" or "Bharti PM" or "Bharti Team" (which I anyway rarely use) is never used in context of an insult.




Joe Shearer said:


> *That was a low blow.* You know very well what I meant.



No I dont. I can't read your mind, just like you can't read mine. So, for the bold part, lets stop guessing what were mine or your intentions.


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## Grevion

Joe Shearer said:


> He is beyond brilliant. Chap like that should have been a judge or a minister. Meos near Delhi and some converted Rajputs are still governed by Hindu law. Also some Kutchhi Memons. Did he mention these, or was it too short?


He did mentioned it. What's more important is that not everyone knows we already have uniform laws in the sale of goods act, Indian contract acts, transfer of property act, etc. It's only the personal matters that are kept out of the common laws and are optional to be governed under the personal laws.

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## coffee_cup

litefire said:


> He did mentioned it. What's more important is that not everyone knows is that we already have uniform laws in the sale of goods act, Indian contract acts, transfer of property act, etc. It's only the personal matters that are kept out of the common laws and are optional to be governed under the personal laws.



Just curious, how is all this related to this thread?


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## Grevion

coffee_cup said:


> Just curious, how is all this related to this thread?


It's not related. Sorry for the offtopic discussion.

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## Joe Shearer

coffee_cup said:


> Just curious, how is all this related to this thread?



You are right, it isn't. Apologies. Someone we knew in common (actually my VC till three months ago, a brilliant man, still on lien from AMU, where he had been the registrar). This stops here.

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## genmirajborgza786

@WAJsal @Oscar

there is a TTA who often uses the word *Ganga *
for _ex:_ *These **Gangas *& *Ganga Land *with an obvious Racist 
connotations

please take note

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## SQ8

To make our point with regards to the usage of the word. 
See timeframe 27:25 usage of the word "Bharti". Cant blame members when this has been the pronunciation heard since 1959.

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## WAJsal

Any reason for Hanuman jokes? getting a lot of complains. What's the point in insulting religious figures?

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## saiyan0321

WAJsal said:


> Any reason for Hanuman jokes? getting a lot of complains. What's the point in insulting religious figures?



You know. Parrikar the Indian defence minister said that Indian army were like hanuman who were reminded of their strength in the Hindu belief that hanuman had forgotten that he was a deity and when he was told to jump and he jumped the sea he realized who he was and what he could do.

This shocked @Joe Shearer

After that it became a joke amongst Pakistani posters as a tease to Indian army by calling it " hanuman army" as a taunt.


It is indeed amazing how taunts and intent define slurs. Your army is being called hanuman army which means that its being equated as a god army but it becomes offensive when its a taunt. The same way **** means pak saf. We use the word in our daily lives but if it's used to denote Pakistanis it becomes a slur not due to the meaning but due to the intent.

Anyhow that's the complaints I am guessing you are getting from Indians.

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## Windjammer

WAJsal said:


> Any reason for Hanuman jokes? getting a lot of complains. What's the point in insulting religious figures?



Indians tend to bring it on themselves.
*
Indian Troops Acted Like Hanumanarrikar*

https://article.wn.com/view/2016/10/01/Indian_Troops_Acted_Like_HanumanParrikar/

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## SarthakGanguly

I find it silly when Indians are complaining that Pakistanis are abusing them or Dharma (Hindus/Sikhs/Buddhists etc). 
Can't decide how to feel - pathetic or sorry.


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## WAJsal

Windjammer said:


> Indians tend to bring it on themselves.
> *
> Indian Troops Acted Like Hanumanarrikar*
> 
> https://article.wn.com/view/2016/10/01/Indian_Troops_Acted_Like_HanumanParrikar/


Shouldn't take a joker seriously, he is known to make such idiotic comments. It is best not to get religious at all. 


saiyan0321 said:


> After that it became a joke amongst Pakistani posters as a tease to Indian army by calling it " hanuman army" as a taunt.


I know who said it, shouldn't be made fun of at all. Don't have a problem in making a mention to show stupidity. But let's not mock Hindu members on PDF. Same can be said about Islam.

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## saiyan0321

WAJsal said:


> Shouldn't take a joker seriously, he is known to make such idiotic comments. It is best not to get religious at all.
> 
> I know who said it, shouldn't be made fun of at all. Don't have a problem in making a mention to show stupidity. But let's not mock Hindu members on PDF. Same can be said about Islam.



I agree. I have never stated it and don't condone it. Even in the worst of our situation our religion forbids us to make fun of other religions. We cannot taunt nor tease others for their faith and belief. We cannot make fun of it.

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## Reichsmarschall

Levina said:


> Exactly!!!
> *Bhartiya* is not offensive but *BHARATI* is. It's a distorted version of the original word.
> 
> 
> When in conversation with an innocent Pakistani, who is unaware of the happenings on PDF, confessed to me that he has never heard the word *BHARATI*>>>
> 
> 
> View attachment 342467
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 342468
> 
> 
> 
> Another Pakistani girl reinforced that the word is Hindustani and not BHARATI>>>
> View attachment 342476

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## Levina

Narendra Trump said:


> View attachment 347592



I don't have to prove it to you.

Those living in Middle East will attest to the fact that it's common to have friends from across the border here.


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## Sher-e-India

I don't find "Bharti" offensive, its standard khari boli in Haryana lol

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## Mugwop

Permanently ban "Crixus" from this forum


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## untitled

What do you guys have to say about Bharati Braille ?

There is even project on the GitHub called Bharati Braille.

Is it because the goddess Bharati is associated with reading and writing?


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## jericho

WAJsal said:


> (do not use this thread for any complains)
> 
> This is a serious problem on this forum, one thing many members get away with, inappropriate language is used and most of the time post are simply deleted. We have discussed this problem many times with each other, and it's time to crack down on any member using unacceptable forum language. There is no excuse for using inappropriate language. Such language only reflects one's mindset and uprising, sorry to say. If you can't tackle a member or if you can't reply to a discussion it's no excuse for using inappropriate language. Mods will not tolerate this and will not look into any excuses.
> If a member is breaking forum rules, simply report him or tag mods if you feel reporting is useless. While i assure every post reported is surely resolved.
> 
> Slangs and sick Generalization...
> This is also a massive problem with many posters, sick generalization and slang of no value need to stop. Such slang and etc, etc will not be tolerated anymore. Any member violating forum rules will simply be 'warned' under the section 'inappropriate language.
> Words like, 'Indiots', 'Porkis'...Using slang's and words like P A K I S.
> Bhartis *'inappropriately'* also falls into this category. Insulting a nation, racism or any sort also falls into this category.
> NOTE: The word Bhartiya is not to be confused with ' P A K I' Bhartiya is not an insult. Word is not to be used inappropriately.
> Words like Chutiya, chutiyapa, Randi Rona, and similar kinds..
> 
> Bottom line: strict action from now on, no more talks and consultation through conversations. Country flags wont matter, Pakistani or not. No excuse for inappropriate language.
> 
> Anything to add? @WebMaster ,@Horus ,@Manticore ,@Oscar ,@Irfan Baloch ,@waz ,@Jungibaaz ,@Aether ....



if the purpose of this is to avoid members being offended, don't you think that Indians claiming Pakistani have hindu ancestors or something along those lines should be banned as well?


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