# Pakistan's Missile Technology



## Janbaz

ISLAMABAD, March 24 (KUNA) -- Pakistan is the third country of the world that has acquired the latest missile technology, said a scientist here Saturday.

National Engineering and Scientific Commission (NESCOM) Chairman and renowned scientist Dr Samar Mobarakmand talking to a local news channel, Geo, said that Pakistan has become the third country of the world to prepare the latest missile technology after Thursdays successful test of Babar Cruise Missile.

He said Pakistan will conduct more missile tests in the future, adding that five years ago Islamabad has only six nuclear scientists but now their number has crossed 10,000.

"Pakistan is not at par with USA; however, it is far ahead of its neighbor, as we possess far superior technology across Asia," he said.

Pakistan Thursday successfully test fired radar avoiding cruise missile with 700 Kms of range.

"The test is part of Pakistans ongoing efforts at consolidating its strategic capability and strengthening national security," said the military statement. (end) amn.

Kuwait News.
http://www.kuna.net.kw/home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=964788


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## PakShaheen

Who's no. 2?
China, Russia or UK?


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## kidwaibhai

I think that 3rd in the world is bit of a strech. Maybe third of Fourth


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## EagleEyes

Pakistan Zindabad!! :flag:

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## Neo

PakShaheen said:


> Who's no. 2?
> China, Russia or UK?



China, India and Pakistan, although China isn't considered to be a third world country anymore.


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## Goodperson

Neo said:


> China, India and Pakistan, although China isn't considered to be a third world country anymore.



But india is behind Israel , UK ,France and Russia.


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## Keysersoze

Sounds like a daft article to me.......

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## Owais

its true that our missile technology is getting advance in muh faster pace with respect to our neighbours however we are still behind US,UK and Russia.


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## Contrarian

keysersoze said:


> Sounds like a daft article to me.......



It is...


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## centaurzhere.abdul

My Goodness. The Article has no idea about what it Talks


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## ahf_nuke1

Not true ..False article or news perhaps.


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## Moin91

Hmm Is a Good news for pakistan defence.:flag: 
ALLAH PAKISTAN KO OR Taraqqi Ata farmaye (AMEEN)

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## Ababeel

Webmaster wrote today that Pakistan is on number 3 in missile technology after testing CM Babur. Can anyone tell me how, when still it has no air to air missile , no long range SAM missile (15-30km) and no ABM & no RADAR technology developments and there are no news if any R & D going on to develop these. So how come it came on number 3.
Is there any one to reply and clear the doubts

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## Neo

Do take it with a pinch of salt guys.


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## Keysersoze

Neo said:


> Do take it with a pinch of salt guys.



Barrel is more like it!


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## Goodperson

kbagdadi said:


> Webmaster wrote today that Pakistan is on number 3 in missile technology after testing CM Babur. Can anyone tell me how, when still it has no air to air missile , no long range SAM missile (15-30km) and no ABM & no RADAR technology developments and there are no news if any R & D going on to develop these. So how come it came on number 3.
> Is there any one to reply and clear the doubts



no no so what ? don't probe deep, accept for the sake of it.


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## EagleEyes

keysersoze said:


> Sounds like a daft article to me.......



Article doesn't say any of that. It is the chairman of NESCOM, a company which has made Babur.


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## EagleEyes

kbagdadi said:


> Webmaster wrote today that Pakistan is on number 3 in missile technology after testing CM Babur. Can anyone tell me how, when still it has no air to air missile , no long range SAM missile (15-30km) and no ABM & no RADAR technology developments and there are no news if any R & D going on to develop these. So how come it came on number 3.
> Is there any one to reply and clear the doubts



Dude, i didn't write any of that. 

Pakistan has made certain advancement in the technology of Babur cruise missile which makes it third in the world. Something to do with accuracy, guidance of the missile.

There are always secretive projects going on in the defense industry, and no ones "chacha" know about it.


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## Goodperson

WebMaster said:


> There are always secretive projects going on in the defense industry, and no ones "chacha" know about it.



Do secretive projects only happen in Pakistan

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## EagleEyes

Again do some research Goodperson. 

All the capable countries have secretive projects going on including China, United States, Russians, and Pakistan.


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## Adux

WebMaster said:


> Again do some research Goodperson.
> 
> All the capable countries have secretive projects going on including China, United States, Russians, and Pakistan.



Ah, what about us poor ol Indians, wait why bother.lol


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## Interceptor

Janbaz said:


> ISLAMABAD, March 24 (KUNA) -- Pakistan is the third country of the world that has acquired the latest missile technology, said a scientist here Saturday.
> 
> National Engineering and Scientific Commission (NESCOM) Chairman and renowned scientist Dr Samar Mobarakmand talking to a local news channel, Geo, said that Pakistan has become the third country of the world to prepare the latest missile technology after Thursdays successful test of Babar Cruise Missile.
> 
> He said Pakistan will conduct more missile tests in the future, adding that five years ago Islamabad has only six nuclear scientists but now their number has crossed 10,000.
> 
> "Pakistan is not at par with USA; however, it is far ahead of its neighbor, as we possess far superior technology across Asia," he said.
> 
> Pakistan Thursday successfully test fired radar avoiding cruise missile with 700 Kms of range.
> 
> "The test is part of Pakistans ongoing efforts at consolidating its strategic capability and strengthening national security," said the military statement. (end) amn.
> 
> Kuwait News.



I cant believe the source entirely. However, I do believe pakistan has grown since its 1990 but underestimating your ennemy is "stupid" India is country that is very large compared to Pakistan it also has a very large army and defence budget, it is compared among the top 5 poweres in the world this should be noted.

Pakistan however is very hard working country and over the years it has proven its capability to posses the means to protect its land. And I believe the source you showed was trying to explain the commitment of the working class who is producing for its country valuable sceintist that will help the country produce indigenous technology.


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## Mercenary

i doubt we are number 3

usa, russia, china, france, germany, italy, england, japan, south korea and israel all have very advanced missile system.

maybe, we have developed to produce them where as many european countries buy their weaponry from USA but I really dont know


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## Interceptor

Though the Shaheen tech is an achievement I have to agree it is very advance for a asian country to have.


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## kvLin

It sounds like a local optimization technique, Pakistan needs to calm down.

technically,there's no defence system providing 100% security. In every test fire Pakistan launches a strategic rivalry to balance out India. but a "third in world" might still be far from the regional balance.


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## Interceptor

^^
Unfortunately there is no real government in Pakistan at the momment and therefore the millitary Dictatorship is inflenced in backing its millitary capability.


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## Matador

hehe ,pakistane's missle technoledge is advanced is true ,but is third in the 

world maybe not actally true .


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## Interceptor

I think shaheen system ranks well above maybe he is trying to justify the Shaheen.


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## con

Interceptor said:


> I think shaheen system ranks well above maybe he is trying to justify the Shaheen.



What is special about Shaheen system?


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## EagleEyes

I think he is reffering to the guidance and range of the system. Including all successful tests compare to Agni series.


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## Interceptor

It is regarded as one of the most lethal missile system it is very fast and can doge anti missle system it is also has long range. It also carries the capability to attack Multiple Independently targetable Re-entry Vehicle, or MIRV way.


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## Interceptor

None of the Indian missiles have ever achieved this feat though they have achieved longrange capabilities.


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## con

WebMaster said:


> I think he is reffering to the guidance and range of the system. Including all successful tests compare to Agni series.



I assume it is a BM. The it must be having a IN as the guidance. Which probably every BM in the world has.
Webby, successful test would mean a missile is very lethal.That stands dor every missile in the world. Dependents on what your testing.


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## Interceptor

con said:


> I assume it is a BM. The it must be having a IN as the guidance. Which probably every BM in the world has.
> Webby, successful test would mean a missile is very lethal.That stands dor every missile in the world. Dependents on what your testing.



Rephrase!!!


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## con

Interceptor said:


> It is regarded as one of the most lethal missile system it is very fast and can doge anti missle system it is also has long range. It also carries the capability to attack Multiple Independently targetable Re-entry Vehicle, or MIRV way.



Since it is BM with re-entry,it wil be fast,as other BM. 
And you saying a BM re-entering at Mach 20 can manveour to dodge a AB missile? 

What is the payload it can carry? If you saying it has MIRV would you mean each warhead is able to "independently" travel at the target?


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## Interceptor

con said:


> Since it is BM with re-entry,it wil be fast,as other BM.
> And you saying a BM re-entering at Mach 20 can manveour to dodge a AB missile?
> 
> What is the payload it can carry? If you saying it has MIRV would you mean each warhead is able to "independently" travel at the target?



There are two variants of the Shaheen one of them has the capability of Multiple Independently targetable Re-entry Vehicle, or MIRV and the other has the missle doging capability, though both employ a deadly effect on Air defence.


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## con

Interceptor said:


> Rephrase!!!



Well if you are asking me to re-phrase then I what is said is I assume it is a Ballistic missile with Inertial Guidance. And Inertial guidance is the universal guidance for Baliistic missile. 

BM are not needed to every accurate. Since it carries a nuke,it does not matter if it has exploded 500 mts or 200 mts from the target.


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## Interceptor

con said:


> Well if you are asking me to re-phrase then I what is said is I assume it is a Ballistic missile with Inertial Guidance. And Inertial guidance is the universal guidance for Baliistic missile.
> 
> BM are not needed to every accurate. Since it carries a nuke,it does not matter if it has exploded 500 mts or 200 mts from the target.



But the point is if it didnt carry one.


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## con

Interceptor said:


> But the point is if it didnt carry one.



Well if Shaheen is longest range missile in Pakistan's inventory,it doesnot make sense to fit a conventional warhead. It is an expensive option. 

Would you provide me with a source for MIRV on Shaheen? Any idea when MIRV was tested?


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## Interceptor

con said:


> Well if Shaheen is longest range missile in Pakistan's inventory,it doesnot make sense to fit a conventional warhead. It is an expensive option.
> 
> Would you provide me with a source for MIRV on Shaheen? Any idea when MIRV was tested?



What do you mean expensive.

"It has been recently reported by the Pakistani Press namely Jang that Pakistan has the ability to MIRV its missiles. This has been seen as possibly the greatest achievement to date. It has also been reported that Pakistan would likely MIRV its Shaheen-II missile."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

There are only a handfull of asian counteries that have MIRV or even Anti missle doging capability.


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## Interceptor

"25 May 2002
Pakistan announces that it will test a new series of short- and intermediate-range ballistic missiles at the Tilla Range; the missiles that will be tested are nuclear capable. During the test, each missile will carry a payload equivalent to the weight of a nuclear warhead. The missiles will be fired toward sea-based targets, and space-based satellites will be used to compile the results of the data generated during the tests. According to Pakistani sources, Pakistan has acquired the capability to produce "multi-independent re-entry vehicles (MIRV) that can deliver three to seven bombs over an area of 80,000 square kilometers. A Pakistani government spokesperson announces that several countries including India, Iran, and the United States have been given prior notification of the tests. [Note: The claim about MIRVs cannot be verified independently.]
&#8212;"Pakistan Reportedly Develops Capability for Multi-Warhead Missiles," BBC Monitoring International Reports, 25 May 2002; in Lexis-Nexis Academic Universe, 25 May 2002, <http://web.lexis-nexis.com>; Rahul Bedi, "Pakistan Tells India It Will Test Its Missiles Today," Irish Times (Dublin), 25 May 2002, City Edition, World News, p. 13; in Lexis-Nexis Academic Universe, 25 May 2002, <http://web.lexis-nexis.com>."

http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Pakistan/Missile/3068_3288.html


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## Regal

Calm down guys and yeah have some faith in the scientist community of ours will ya. To be honest with you I for one have not seen at least the Pakistani Ã¢â¬ÅscientistsÃ¢â¬Â community making empty boosts which is otherwise abundant in subcontinent. Did you guys ever think of it in a different way??? Well let me tell you this. The only reason for this statement would be the range of 700km of babur cruise missile. I am not sure if any other country makes a cruise missile with the range in excess of 700km except the United States and the Russians so in this sense the statement would be true I suppose and would make Pakistan the third country in the world to have achieved this.


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## Interceptor

aussie said:


> i think iran has achieved mirv so its not that much of an achievemnet



Thats your thoughts talking to you. MIRV reduces the inventory and decreaces the missle production cost Pakistan is a THIRD world country and cant afford expensive missle production yearly so it has designed the MIRV the special thing about them is after deployed in mid air there guidance system will over take and and then it can even protect the warhead from incomming anti-missles.


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## Srirangan

"Pakistan is the third country of the world that has acquired the latest missile technology, said a scientist here Saturday."

And what would this latest missile technology be that Pak is #3 of?


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## Interceptor

^^ 
There are so many where do you want to start.


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## Srirangan

Interceptor said:


> ^^
> There are so many where do you want to start.


Start anywhere you like..


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## con

Interceptor said:


> What do you mean expensive.
> 
> "It has been recently reported by the Pakistani Press namely Jang that Pakistan has the ability to MIRV its missiles. This has been seen as possibly the greatest achievement to date. It has also been reported that Pakistan would likely MIRV its Shaheen-II missile."
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
> 
> There are only a handfull of asian counteries that have MIRV or even Anti missle doging capability.



Mate,can you provide me with a more reliable source.You are quoting from wiki,which infact quotes from a Pakistani daily. I would prefer a better source.

Also I am yet to convince that S2 has MIRV. 
Why?
It apparently can carry 1 tonne. According to this FAS link



> Pakistan is believed to have a capability to deploy a nuclear warhead using plutonium and weighing around 500 kilograms


http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/pakistan/missile/hatf-3.htm

That means additional casing and wiring would increase the weight of the nuke within the missile head.hence i dont see the missile carrying a second warhead.

Then the dimension. S2 apparently has 1.5 diameter and the head is cone shaped.If you are deploying a MIRV it means individual warhead would be cone shaped some like the image in this link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIRV

Now notice the dimension of the missile head that is required to hold multiple cone shaped warheads.
If MIRV is implemented as gliding warhead then the aerodynamics feature of the warhead might mean extra space required.If it is implemented as rocket powered then weight issues.

check this Agni 3 image,which is rumoured to have MIRV. Observe the change in the missile head.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/Images/A3_family_contrast A2_K15_tube_r11A-1500x1400pix.jpg

Hence I dont see how S2 has MIRV.It's warhead capacity and dimensions are just not enough for MIRV


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## Interceptor

^^
Read Post 42, And I am not rocket scientist and nor are you. The Fas is showing a system that is used by the USA is a ICBM which can carry more payload, Shaheen isn't a ICBM.

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## Janbaz

Srirangan said:


> Start anywhere you like..



Babur, pinpoint accuracy!:flag:


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## TexasJohn

Interceptor said:


> There are only a handfull of asian counteries that have MIRV or even Anti missle doging capability.



Where did you get this part about anti missile dodging capability. To date, ONLY Russia's Bulova has that! Any links?


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## joey

Fanboy Article, not uncommon in our media as well.


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## con

Interceptor said:


> Read Post 42,



It says "Pakistan sources say... can drop 3- 7 bombs"

S2 carrying 3 to 7 bombs?? what bombs??

I would request for something better,not which starts with "Pakistani sources say ...". Please.




> And I am not rocket scientist and nor are you.


So? Do someone needs to be rocket scientist to analyze how multiple warhead would fit in a "cone shaped" missile head? 

Try placing multiple cones inside a bigger cone,you will understand what I am talking about.



> The Fas is showing a system that is used by the USA is a ICBM which can carry more payload, Shaheen isn't a ICBM.



A 10,000 KM missile with 200 kg warhead or 10,000 kg multiple warhead is still a ICBM.

A 2500 Km missile with with 200 kg single or 10,000 kg multiple warheads is still a IRBM.

What is the relation with carrying multiple warhead and missile being a ICBM?


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## sweetboy

con said:


> It says "Pakistan sources say... can drop 3- 7 bombs"
> 
> S2 carrying 3 to 7 bombs?? what bombs??
> 
> I would request for something better,not which starts with "Pakistani sources say ...". Please.
> 
> 
> 
> So? Do someone needs to be rocket scientist to analyze how multiple warhead would fit in a "cone shaped" missile head?
> 
> Try placing multiple cones inside a bigger cone,you will understand what I am talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> A 10,000 KM missile with 200 kg warhead or 10,000 kg multiple warhead is still a ICBM.
> 
> A 2500 Km missile with with 200 kg single or 10,000 kg multiple warheads is still a IRBM.
> 
> What is the relation with carrying multiple warhead and missile being a ICBM?



Greater the payload shorter the range . 
smaller the payload longer the range.


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## abbasniazi

sweetboy said:


> Greater the payload shorter the range .
> smaller the payload longer the range.



I don't understand what made u bring a 2 years old dead article to life?

Would you mind explaining the reason for it, did pakistan test another missile today? or did someone else from the Govt. came up with a similer claim today?

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## nightcrawler

sweetboy said:


> Greater the payload shorter the range .
> smaller the payload longer the range.



This isn't generally the case at all!! Nowadays with the advances in nanoparticle technology more & more of the solid fuel propellant with great combustion rates can be packed in a smaller volume; decreasing the overall volume of the missile. I will not use technical terms here but this advancement has dual +ive effects:

1) Lesser volume means greater stealth as now the missile has to cut through lesser radar waves
2) Lesser volume lesser metal for fabrication & lesser overall weight thereby increasing range


[/LIST]


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## applesauce

i have serious doubts about it being 3rd, theres usa, russia, china(in that order i believe), thats 3 right there and they are not questioned when it comes to missile tech, then there are those who can probably make some very nice ones if needed like japan.


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## amarnath

Where is france?


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## amarnath

Janbaz said:


> ISLAMABAD, March 24 (KUNA) -- Pakistan is the third country of the world that has acquired the latest missile technology, said a scientist here Saturday.
> 
> National Engineering and Scientific Commission (NESCOM) Chairman and renowned scientist Dr Samar Mobarakmand talking to a local news channel, Geo, said that Pakistan has become the third country of the world to prepare the latest missile technology after Thursdays successful test of Babar Cruise Missile.
> 
> He said Pakistan will conduct more missile tests in the future, adding that five years ago Islamabad has only six nuclear scientists but now their number has crossed 10,000.
> 
> "Pakistan is not at par with USA; however, it is far ahead of its neighbor, as we possess far superior technology across Asia," he said.
> 
> Pakistan Thursday successfully test fired radar avoiding cruise missile with 700 Kms of range.
> 
> "The test is part of Pakistans ongoing efforts at consolidating its strategic capability and strengthening national security," said the military statement. (end) amn.
> 
> Kuwait News.
> http://www.kuna.net.kw/home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=964788



Stop dreaming please,

Japan,USA,France,China,UK and India are way ahead of You.... See the wordls msiile chart and you will know
World Missile Chart - Countries Possessing Ballistic Missiles


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## mughaljee

This thread starts on , 03-24-2007, 09:58 PM , about Pakistan 3rd country of the world in latest missile technology.

What is the latest table position now ?


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## unicorn148

theres no meaning in the thread third in missile technology in what way
you dont have a ICBM(INDIA is developing AGNI 5)
you dont have BMD(INDIA has PAD & AAD)
you dont have surface to air missile(INDIA has AKASH)
you dont have a supersonic cruse missile(INDIA has )
you dont have a submarine launched missile (INDIA has SAGARIKA)
you dont have a anti tank missile(INDIA has NAG third generation)
you dont have a air to air missile(INDIA has ASTRA)
may be some missile are not inducted but are sucessfully tested
so in what way you are ahead of even india in missile technology
missile technology doesnt mean having just IRBM & MRBM


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## mughaljee

unicorn148 said:


> theres no meaning in the thread third in missile technology in what way
> you dont have a ICBM(INDIA is developing AGNI 5)
> you dont have BMD(INDIA has PAD & AAD)
> you dont have surface to air missile(INDIA has AKASH)
> you dont have a supersonic cruse missile(INDIA has )
> you dont have a submarine launched missile (INDIA has SAGARIKA)
> you dont have a anti tank missile(INDIA has NAG third generation)
> you dont have a air to air missile(INDIA has ASTRA)
> may be some missile are not inducted but are sucessfully tested
> so in what way you are ahead of even india in missile technology
> missile technology doesnt mean having just IRBM & MRBM


Will some one reply all of above ?


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## Quwa

Talent/expertise is not an issue for Pakistan, it has it locally and can certainly acquire it from abroad if necessary. The main issue Pakistan has is finances and lack of foresight - by politicians of course. I hope things change fundamentally in the political and economic department, but for now focus in Pakistan will likely be given to the following:

1. Further improvement of cruise missile technology: namely extended range, ability to utilize it from land, air, sea and sub-sea and nuclear warheads. I think the Ra'ad ALCM will see further changes in its airframe - i.e. stealthier like Storm Shadow/Black Shaheen. We should be seeing another type for use on submarines and potentially even future frigates via VLS. While satisfied with its inventory of AShM, Pakistan should consider long-term development of a longer-range AShM with Turkey - for post 2020 use. 

2. Tactical air-to-surface missile technology. It is imperative for Pakistan to develop its own series of AGM - i.e. our own Maverick. The recent deal with Brazil's Marcom for the MAR-1 ARM w/ToT (PakDef) is a clear step towards that direction. Minus its seeker, it is essentially a standard air-to-surface missile, and Pakistan would only need to change its seeker, guidance, etc. This should not be an issue as it would have developed this technology earlier via the Ra'ad, H2 & H4, etc. 

3. Another possible step in tactical development would be the development of our own JAGM-type missile. Essentially an air-to-surface missile that is light enough to be carried on attack helicopters, fighter aircraft and armed-UAV. Again, this shouldn't really be an issue as Pakistan has not only the know-how, but also doors of cooperation with South Africa, Brazil, Italy, Turkey and of course, China. 

4. Development of next-generation air-to-air missiles. This is a clear requirement as it is an integral aspect of ensuring JF-17 & FC-20's full lethality. IMO a likely avenue to pursue this would be with South Africa and Brazil, initially with the A-Darter WVRAAM, and then later the T-Darter BVRAAM. The A-Darter and T-Darter are AIM-9X and Meteor standard systems, respectfully. 

5. Surface-to-Air Missiles. Not much has happened in this department, but there is some movement. Namely the interest in further developing FT-2000/HQ-9 long-range SAM. However, Pakistan should also look into developing a solid medium-range VL-SAM with South Africa - perhaps based on Umkhonto-R - with an aim range of 30~40km. Not only would it bolster land-based AD, but also naval-based as this system could be integrated on frigates & corvettes via VLS. 

6. In strategic terms. The development of ICBMs and MIRV will continue in its theoretical and capacity scope - i.e. the _ability_ - but the physical development may not occur for some time. In fact, its development may have been synchronized with the Satellite Launch Vehicle programme. Nonetheless, it is clear that WMD-development is in due course; recent news of Pakistan switching over to plutonium-based nukes, arming cruise-missiles, etc.

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## unicorn148

PAKISTAN is depending on other countries for SAM's ,air to air missiles , air to surface missiles , anti tank missiles ,anti ship missiles and many more so in what way you can call Pakistan third in missile technology .It is still behind from INDIA


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## amarnath

unicorn148 said:


> PAKISTAN is depending on other countries for SAM's ,air to air missiles , air to surface missiles , anti tank missiles ,anti ship missiles and many more so in what way you can call Pakistan third in missile technology .It is still behind from INDIA



Comeonman, cool down, they do know that fact.... And it is not too far from the surya ICBM , which will be evolved from PSLV and Agni, and ofcourse the AGNI-5......

India is the fourth country with anti-ballistic capability after the United States, Russia and Israel. Amid rising regional tension, in 1995 the country purchased the S-300 air defense system from Russia to protect New Delhi and other cities. It intended to purchase the Arrow II missile defense system jointly developed by Israel and the United States after an armed conflict broke out between India and Pakistan in Kargil in the disputed territory of Kashmir in 1999. When the United States rejected its demand, India decided to develop its own missile defense system. The Department of Defense under India's Ministry of Defense created a committee in August 2004 to take charge of the research and development of the country's missile defense system, marking India's formal incorporation of the development of a missile defense system as part of its military strategy.

Building a Missile Shield -- Beijing Review


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## unicorn148

yes india has developed BMD capabilities and its radar used in it is developed by india and israil which is also used in arrow missile defence

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## Srinivas

A lot of defense projects will be done in high level secrecy. And no country will disclose its true capabilities.
On that note how can we give ratings?
If pakistan feels it is more advance than India in missile tech the its ok for us no offence


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## rastor

Pakistan has more nukes than India. And if I am not mistaken their missile program is more advanced (probably because they obtained tech from china/NK). Underestimate pakistan at your own peril.


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## UchihaCG

rastor said:


> Pakistan has more nukes than India. And if I am not mistaken their missile program is more advanced (probably because they obtained tech from china/NK). Underestimate pakistan at your own peril.



Pakistan having more nukes than India doesn't mean anything.
Look at the size of India. Look at Pakistan.

Who would NEED more nukes?
Not that i'm saying you know 

Also, who is underestimating Pakistan? they're the ones underestimating US. I think it's funny how they have arguments about the PAF beating the IAF, PAK army squishing Indians. Cool to know.


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## unicorn148

rastor said:


> Pakistan has more nukes than India. And if I am not mistaken their missile program is more advanced (probably because they obtained tech from china/NK). Underestimate pakistan at your own peril.



i dont know how the hell do you think pakisthan have more nukes than india . India is making nukes from 80's whereas pakistan is making nukes after 1998 and what if pakisthan got techs from china and nk the are still far behind in missile tech you say of china , china still dont have ABM tech


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## SMC

Lot of bullshit being spewed by indians - unicorn in particular. Pakistan is ahead of india in missile technology, and anyone who has any idea about what they are saying would know that. I am not gonna waste time replying because I got other stuff to do.

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## unicorn148

Ahsan_R said:


> Lot of bullshit being spewed by indians - unicorn in particular. Pakistan is ahead of india in missile technology, and anyone who has any idea about what they are saying would know that. I am not gonna waste time replying because I got other stuff to do.



if you can prove your claim you words the show some proof otherwise dont just throw words to satisfy your ego


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## AliFarooq

unicorn148 said:


> if you can prove your claim you words the show some proof otherwise dont just throw words to satisfy your ego



USA claimed that pakistan has more nukes than pakistan, there is an anotehr thread on this site, look for it.


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## unicorn148

AliFarooq said:


> USA claimed that pakistan has more nukes than pakistan, there is an anotehr thread on this site, look for it.



you may be having nukes so what that doesnt mean you have supeior missile tech


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## AliFarooq

unicorn148 said:


> i dont know how the hell do you think pakisthan have more nukes than india . India is making nukes from 80's whereas pakistan is making nukes after 1998 and what if pakisthan got techs from china and nk the are still far behind in missile tech you say of china , china still dont have ABM tech





unicorn148 said:


> you may be having nukes so what that doesnt mean you have supeior missile tech



you own post stated tht pakistan had less nukes.


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## unicorn148

i didnt say you have more nukes i said you may be having nukes i think your a bit poor in english and stay on the topic and if you have proof to claim your words
show it


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## Red Dwarf

Sorry Indians but I think Pakistan has more nukes than India. May be missiles too. They had the luxury of China/NK. Where we had none. We had only opposers than supporters..


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## ejaz007

As far as number of nuclear weapons is concerned India has more nuclear weapons than Pakistan. Pakistan has more missiles deployed than India.

As far as quality or technology is concerned it is very difficult to say who has better since access to the missiles is not available.

The technology can only be assessed once these are used and one hopes that such a situation never arises.

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## Bushy

ejaz007 said:


> As far as number of nuclear weapons is concerned India has more nuclear weapons than Pakistan. Pakistan has more missiles deployed than India.
> 
> As far as quality or technology is concerned it is very difficult to say who has better since access to the missiles is not available.
> 
> The technology can only be assessed once these are used and one hopes that such a situation never arises.



Most of the Defence related agencies put the number of nukes almost same for both the countries (India - 60-120, Pakistan 50-100), however the actual capability of missiles, aircrafts and other equipments can never be gauged. History is witness many surprises have sprung at the times of wars (Not only India-Pakistan wars). As do you, I too wish we are never forced to use them.


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## SMC

I was asked to prove something. I will not go too much into the details except a few things claimed. 

It was mentioned that Pakistan does not have ICBM. Pakistan doesn't need ICBM. Shaheen 2 does the job very efficiently and that missile is better than anything that india has operational. It covers all of India plus has the range to reach Israel as well if anything happens on that front. Range is not an issue for Pakistan because besides India, it faces threats from no other country. Things might heat up with Israel but right now its not a threat to Pakistan.

Shaheen III when it comes out will be THE most advanced missile in South Asia. The range will be around 4,500 KM but that's not the best part. It will most likely be MIRVed.

Many of the other missiles that are claimed to be not held by Pakistan are also false. Your missile shields are pretty much useless against Shaheen II as it is right now and with Shaheen III you might as well stop using them at all.

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## AHMED85

congrats Pakistan  


proud to be a Pakistani


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## unicorn148

Ahsan_R said:


> I was asked to prove something. I will not go too much into the details except a few things claimed.
> 
> 
> Shaheen III when it comes out will be THE most advanced missile in South Asia. The range will be around 4,500 KM but that's not the best part. It will most likely be MIRVed.
> 
> Many of the other missiles that are claimed to be not held by Pakistan are also false. Your missile shields are pretty much useless against Shaheen II as it is right now and with Shaheen III you might as well stop using them at all.



its not yet confermed yet Shaheen III is MIRVed so dont get over exited


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## MZUBAIR

Ahsan_R said:


> I was asked to prove something. I will not go too much into the details except a few things claimed.
> 
> It was mentioned that Pakistan does not have ICBM. Pakistan doesn't need ICBM. Shaheen 2 does the job very efficiently and that missile is better than anything that india has operational. It covers all of India plus has the range to reach Israel as well if anything happens on that front. Range is not an issue for Pakistan because besides India, it faces threats from no other country. Things might heat up with Israel but right now its not a threat to Pakistan.
> 
> Shaheen III when it comes out will be THE most advanced missile in South Asia. The range will be around 4,500 KM but that's not the best part. It will most likely be MIRVed.
> 
> Many of the other missiles that are claimed to be not held by Pakistan are also false. Your missile shields are pretty much useless against Shaheen II as it is right now and with Shaheen III you might as well stop using them at all.



One thing more, there is no announced missle test fired since 2007, so no one can pridict whereas Pakistan standing. We all know they are testing missels surface to surface, surface to air, air to air, air to surface, there are few missel tests fired from submarine to surface and air (submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBM)). I also heard Pakistan tested missels fired from boats in early 2009.

One of them was spotted by TIMES due to its similarity with harpoons, which infact wasnt Harpoon copy.

There were also news abt Taimoor which was either long-range ballistic missile (LRBM ranges 4,800-8,000 km) or intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM >8,000 km) in mid june 09.

But there was n official news.

Pakistan also tested latest cruise missels this year, could be newer versions of Raad and Babur.

Pakistan is not showing these on TV media, as it used to be in Mushraf days. So we can only predict the current strength and capability of those news which we read in paper.

I guess its still ahead to India

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## MZUBAIR

Known Pakistan made Missels and Bombs
Surface-to-Surface Missiles

Battlefield / Short Range Ballistic Missiles: 
Hatf I, Hatf IA, Hatf IB BRBM 
Abdali I (Hatf II) SRBM 
Ghaznavi (Hatf III) SRBM 
Medium / Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles: 
Ghauri I (Hatf V) MRBM 
Ghauri II IRBM 
Ghauri III IRBM (under development) 
Shaheen I (Hatf IV) MRBM 
Shaheen II (Hatf VI) IRBM 
Shaheen III IRBM (under development) 
Ground Launched Cruise Missiles: 
Babur (Hatf VII) 

The Baktar-Shikan ATGM, also known as Green Arrow.Anti-Tank Guided Missiles: 
Baktar-Shikan (Green Arrow) 
Surface-to-Air Missiles

Man-Portable Air Defence Systems: 
Anza Mk I 
Anza Mk II 
Anza Mk III 
Air-to-Surface Missiles

Air Launched Cruise Missiles: 
Ra'ad ALCM (Hatf VIII 
Stand-off weapons: 
H-2 precision-guided glide bomb 
H-4 precision-guided glide bomb (rocket boosted)


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## MZUBAIR

For Indians.....

In any case, if war brakes between India and Pakistan, I feel both will destroy each other.


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## SMC

unicorn148 said:


> its not yet confermed yet Shaheen III is MIRVed so dont get over exited



It's not confirmed but it won't be confirmed either until it is made, if even then. Right now it is a high probability that it will be MIRV. The only way you will find out if Shaheen III has MIRV will be if it is either leaked, or the government chooses to say it (doesn't always happens), or if there is a war.


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## pakistantiger

pakistani tech is better if ur missile is in developing state u said u hav better tech and if pakistan have a missile in developing state indian say it is rumor n why should we leack our secrets here n well pakistan hav chinese n north korean tech and india hav russian tech so we both are at same level becuase china use russian tech n pakistan use same tech and india use directly same tech from russia so no ups and down


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## ARSENAL6

Ahsan_R said:


> I was asked to prove something. I will not go too much into the details except a few things claimed.
> 
> It was mentioned that Pakistan does not have ICBM. Pakistan doesn't need ICBM. .



Although i would agree with you sometime back but as it stands, Pakistan has been threaten to be split into small segments. It would make proper sence for pakistan to go Icmb fully.


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## SMC

I don't see us getting missiles to reach US any time soon. Distance from Pakistan to US is probably a good 18,000 KM. Israel and india are already covered.


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## Novice09

This is one of the points on which I agree with Pakistanis. They have some better missiles than India. Although, I don't think that they are #3 in world when it comes to missile technology. Also, not ahead of India; feel free to discord.
*
Babur*


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## arihant

First of all Pakistan doesn't beforehand inform about Missile test as India does. Pakistan reports its Media only after it is tested. In India secret test are still not possible, hopefully we can do that and make other idiots fool by marking every test successful.


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## Novice09

arihant said:


> First of all Pakistan doesn't beforehand inform about Missile test as India does. Pakistan reports its Media only after it is tested. In India secret test are still not possible, hopefully we can do that and make other idiots fool by marking every test successful.



We desperately need secrecy in our defense projects.


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## MZUBAIR

Novice09 said:


> We desperately need secrecy in our defense projects.



Yes thats wt Pakistan do!!!


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## ARSENAL6

Ahsan_R said:


> I don't see us getting missiles to reach US any time soon. Distance from Pakistan to US is probably a good 18,000 KM. Israel and india are already covered.





I agree but :
1) Pakistan should never limit its defence
2) America has shown truly what it thimks about pakistan
3) as someone had said before if someone has the ability to projectile harmful missiles it only makes sence to have one your own as a warning.


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## sipraomer

I haven't read the whole thread but read some of the interesting posts. I stumbled up to some stranger words as Agni 5 and Inter continental Ballistic Missile.

First of all my dear Indians, concentrate on making Agni 3 a success. Or rather should I say make sure that Agni 1 and Agni 2 are reliable and do work for the second time you launch or test them. Secondly if Pakistan is good in secrecy then it is also a positive point which proves our superiority of intelligence as well as technology compared to you. Pakistan prevails, Islam prevails. Pakistan zinda Abad.


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## VelocuR

self delete


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## haawk

^^^^^didnt you read the article?it says ground launched missile.......besides the pic is of something else i believe.....just for show or something put up by nutcases.


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## Barrett

arihant said:


> First of all Pakistan doesn't beforehand inform about Missile test as India does. Pakistan reports its Media only after it is tested. In India secret test are still not possible, hopefully we can do that and make other idiots fool by marking every test successful.



Both the countries inform each other before a missile test and are kept secret.


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## ironman

StealthQL-707PK said:


> is this obvious Babur Missile launching from submarine or ship?
> I haven't heard that Babur had modified into the ocean testing, correct me?
> 
> Source



This is US Tomahawk, launched from nuclear submarine USS La Jolla. Howstuffworks "How Cruise Missiles Work"

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## Sinnerman108

WebMaster said:


> I think he is reffering to the guidance and range of the system. Including all successful tests compare to Agni series.



The technology being referred to concerns on how the missile *"finds"* it's way to the target.

That is as much of a hint possible.

and yes Pakistan is only the 3rd country to make that system.


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## illuminatus

Ababeel said:


> Webmaster wrote today that Pakistan is on number 3 in missile technology after testing CM Babur. Can anyone tell me how, when still it has no air to air missile , no long range SAM missile (15-30km) and no ABM & no RADAR technology developments and there are no news if any R & D going on to develop these. So how come it came on number 3.
> Is there any one to reply and clear the doubts



First of all, let's not confuse Pakistan's strategic missile assets with the conventional capabilities. Secondly, various Pakistani ballistic missiles have been inducted in sizeable numbers and indeed provide a much needed edge whereas India is still struggling to get its so-called "credible deterrence" to work. Additionally, Babur cruise missile proves to be another important milestone. Ra'ad ALCM is another classic example of the strategic stand-off capability on land and at sea. The pace at which Pakistan has managed to diversify its proven missile arsenal despite so many hurdles is impressive to say the least. Also, you should know that Pakistan heavily relies on its minimum deterrence capability. Most resources are diverted to ensure that this capability is up and running. Therefore, I fully concur with Dr. Samar Mubarakmand. Pakistan belongs to those handful of countries that have a proven missile arsenal which can be relied upon.


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## unicorn148

theres no meaning in the thread third in missile technology in what way
you dont have a ICBM(INDIA is developing AGNI 5)
you dont have BMD(INDIA has PAD & AAD)
you dont have surface to air missile(INDIA has AKASH)
you dont have a supersonic cruse missile(INDIA has )
you dont have a submarine launched missile (INDIA has SAGARIKA)
you dont have a anti tank missile(INDIA has NAG third generation)
you dont have a air to air missile(INDIA has ASTRA)
may be some missile are not inducted but are sucessfully tested
so in what way you are ahead of even india in missile technology
missile technology doesnt mean having just IRBM & MRBM


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## illuminatus

unicorn148 said:


> theres no meaning in the thread third in missile technology in what way
> you dont have a ICBM(INDIA is *developing*AGNI 5)
> you dont have BMD(INDIA has PAD & AAD)
> you dont have surface to air missile(INDIA has AKASH)
> you dont have a supersonic cruse missile(INDIA has )
> you dont have a submarine launched missile (INDIA has SAGARIKA)
> you dont have a anti tank missile(INDIA has NAG third generation)
> you dont have a air to air missile(INDIA has ASTRA)
> may be some missile are not inducted but are sucessfully tested
> so in what way you are ahead of even india in missile technology
> missile technology doesnt mean having just IRBM & MRBM



Let's keep all the *developments* out of this thread. Pakistan too has many developments ongoing including an ICBM project which I could speculate about. Most Indian projects that you have copied and pasted are still ongoing and haven't even surpassed the prototype stage yet. Additionally, many of these projects have failed not once, but on many occasions. This indicates the reliability and readiness of Indian deterrence. It's a fact that Pakistan has a *reliable* and *credible* deterrence at it's disposal not only consisting of IRBM, MRBM ballistic missiles, but also cruise missiles which you so conveniently forgot to mention. Pakistan has a credible minimum deterrence to keep aggressors like India at bay. There is a general consensus on this matter in neutral defence circles.

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## unicorn148

illuminatus said:


> Let's keep all the *developments* out of this thread. Pakistan too has many developments ongoing including an ICBM project which I could speculate about. Most Indian projects that you have copied and pasted are still ongoing and haven't even surpassed the prototype stage yet. Additionally, many of these projects have failed not once, but on many occasions. This indicates the reliability and readiness of Indian deterrence. It's a fact that Pakistan has a *reliable* and *credible* deterrence at it's disposal not only consisting of IRBM, MRBM ballistic missiles, but also cruise missiles which you so conveniently forgot to mention. Pakistan has a credible minimum deterrence to keep aggressors like India at bay. There is a general consensus on this matter in neutral defence circles.



India have developed cruse missiles far ahead of pakisthan it is the best in the world i dont know on what basis you say but the above missile are tested and have been successful in the entire process and ready to induct .If you have proof to back your words show it


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## illuminatus

^^ LOL Being an Indian you're boasting about obvious failures that the whole world has witnessed in the past few years. Even the jointly developed cruise missile with the help of the Russians seems to have fundamental flaws. Not to mention Agni II which is supposed to be part of your credible deterrence aimed at China and Pakistan. I don't understand where some of you Indians get the courage to boast about faulty firecrackers? There is no comparison between proven and reliable deterrence versus faulty and failed deterrence.


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## Red Dwarf

illuminatus said:


> Let's keep all the *developments* out of this thread. Pakistan too has many developments ongoing including an ICBM project which I could speculate about. Most Indian projects that you have copied and pasted are still ongoing and haven't even surpassed the prototype stage yet. Additionally, many of these projects have failed not once, but on many occasions. This indicates the reliability and readiness of Indian deterrence. It's a fact that Pakistan has a *reliable* and *credible* deterrence at it's disposal not only consisting of IRBM, MRBM ballistic missiles, but also cruise missiles which you so conveniently forgot to mention. Pakistan has a credible minimum deterrence to keep aggressors like India at bay. There is a general consensus on this matter in neutral defence circles.



You can do whatever you want when China gives you technology, fuel, hardware, software, factory and when needed a nuclear bomb too to fit in it. 

There is no godfather to help India. We have to create everything ourselves. So there will me mistakes. Failure are part of development. If your development doesn't met any failures so far, then it is sure that it will occur in situations where it is not all acceptable.


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## unicorn148

The AGNI 2 which was tested recently has used new systems . the older version of the AGNI2 is tested successfully many times and inducted into the army .Now they are trying to develop new techs in AGNI2 which has failed


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## unicorn148

Pakistan had taken help from China and North Korea to develop most of its missile tech .India has developed each and every missile itself without any help that's why we fail some times we don't have blueprints of those missiles before like you had from china


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## illuminatus

^^ Who cares what China or anyone else for that matter gives to Pakistan? At least, the Pakistanis have the brain to acknowledge that they should rely on credible deterrence. Deterrence which has been thoroughly improved by our scientists without having to reinvent the wheel so to speak. Deterrence that hasn't been a waste of resource. We are proud to have such allies that are willing to help Pakistan out in time of need.

That's an outrageous lie. India is the biggest beneficiary of outside assistance from nuclear weapons to a bullet. In fact, India despite having the help of the likes of Russia, Israel and the Western world in general is still a humongous failure. India has all the help in the world yet is unable to conduct tests without hiccups and failures. That's certainly something to ponder upon for many Indians. LOL You Indians actually believe in fairy tales.


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## unicorn148

India has developed each and every tech on its own without any help unlike pakisthan who took every missile from china

---------- Post added at 03:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:32 PM ----------

can you say any missiles other than IRBM and cruse missile that pakisthan has developed


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## illuminatus

^^ Whatever keeps you happy. I've made my point and I'll stick to it. I like many neutral defence experts believe that Pakistan has a vastly superior and credible deterrence at its disposal as compared to Indian firecrackers. Period. Beg to differ, feel free.

India thrives on technology received from Russia, Israel and now the US. Indigenous my foot.


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## Conqueror

unicorn148 said:


> Pakistan had taken help from China and North Korea to develop most of its missile tech .India has developed each and every missile itself without any help that's why we fail some times we don't have blueprints of those missiles before like you had from china



You are being patriotic with your comments here. Pakistan started with basic 120KM missile and is on the way towards ICBMs and it has taken us nearly 20 years to reach the stage where we stand today. Sure our Chinese and North Korean Friends helped whenever we needed but those weren't joint ventures or transfer of technology as many of you like to call. We happy that we have ample missile deterrence to respond to any misadventure and thats what matters the most.


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## unicorn148

you may feel happy on what you say but what i say is truth if you have any proof show it to prove your word every one in the world knows that pakisthans missiles are copy of chinas and indias are Indigenous


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## PWFI

lol, i belive you! 
BABUr cruise copy of ZEADON 41?
RA'AD copy of PEKIN?
...............the body frame is 60% similar , it does mean it's a copy of chinese missiles!

everybody know indian missiles are copy of old URSS missiles! give me any proof they are indegiously produce!

any way long life


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## Hulk

Pakistan is ahead in Missile technology from us, there is no point arguing. Whatever they did they manged it well. Our missiles are not that bad either, as some of our Pakistani friends say. Failure is part of development, we had failures no issue, What is surprising is that Pakistan had no failure's at all.


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## rizwan78

unicorn148 said:


> India has developed each and every tech on its own without any help unlike pakisthan who took every missile from china
> 
> ---------- Post added at 03:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:32 PM ----------
> 
> can you say any missiles other than IRBM and cruse missile that pakisthan has developed[/QUOTE
> 
> Testimony on Cooperation in Space and Missiles
> 
> Have a look on your so called Ingenious missile program.
> 
> In November 1963, NASA began the Indian space program by launching a U.S. rocket from Indian soil. Between 1963 and 1975, more than 350 U.S., French, Soviet and British rockets were launched from India's new Thumba Range, which the United States helped design. Thumba's first group of Indian engineers learned rocket launching and range operation from the United States.
> 
> Among these engineers was A. P. J. Abdul Kalam, the Agni missile's chief designer. After the Indian nuclear tests last month, he was also hailed as the "father" of the Indian atomic bomb. In 1963-64, he spent four months in training in the United States. He visited NASA's Langley Research Center in Virginia, where the U.S. Scout rocket was conceived, and the Wallops Island Flight Center in Virginia, where the Scout was being flown. The Scout was a four-stage, solid-fueled launcher used to orbit small payloads. It was also used to test the performance of reentry vehicles--a technology necessary to deliver nuclear warheads. According to NASA officials, the Indian engineers saw the blueprints of the Scout during their visit.
> 
> In 1965, the Indian government asked NASA for design information about the Scout. The request should have raised some eyebrows. It came from the head of the Indian Atomic Energy Commission. Nevertheless, NASA obligingly supplied the information. Kalam then proceeded to build India's first big rocket, the SLV-3, which was an exact copy of the Scout. The first stage of the SLV-3 is now the first stage of the Agni missile.
> 
> The second stage of the Agni is based on a surface-to-air missile known as the SA-2 that India bought from Russia. But in order to build the second stage, India also had to learn about liquid propulsion. For this, India turned to France. The French willingly transferred the technology needed to build a powerful liquid-fueled rocket motor called the "Viking," which powers the European Space Agency's Ariane satellite launcher. Thus, India learned how to build the first stage of the Agni from the United States, and how to build the second stage from France and Russia. The U.S. and French help was supposed to be for peaceful space exploration, but it wound up helping India's missile program.
> 
> The Agni also needed a guidance system. For this, India turned to the German Space Agency. In the 1970s and 1980s, Germany conducted an intensive tutorial for India in rocket guidance. The assistance--once again--was supposed to be for peaceful space exploration. But each step in the process for building a guidance system for India's space launcher moved India further down the road to building a guidance system for the Agni missile. In fact, India seems to have invented a new term to describe its progress. Again and again, India's Department of Space, in its annual reports, announced that it was able to "indigenize" another piece of essential equipment.
> 
> Germany also provided other help. The German Space Agency tested a model of the first stage of the SLV-3 (identical to the Scout) in its wind tunnel at Cologne-Portz. That first stage is now the first stage of the Agni missile. The German Space Agency also helped India build rocket test facilities, and trained Indians in the use of the special composite materials needed to make rocket nozzles and nosecones. I have included a graphic and a table in my testimony that summarizes the extensive foreign help that India received.
> 
> Thus, India's biggest nuclear missile is an international product. Under the guise of peaceful space cooperation, the United States, France and Germany helped create the most advanced nuclear missile in South Asia. The Agni's first stage, second stage and guidance system all come from Western technology, which proves beyond any doubt that you cannot help a country build space launchers without helping it build missiles.

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## MZUBAIR

unicorn148 said:


> India have developed cruse missiles far ahead of pakisthan it is the best in the world i dont know on what basis you say but the above missile are tested and have been successful in the entire process and ready to induct .If you have proof to back your words show it



Its hard for Indians to hear that Pakistan is way ahead in missel techno then India.
So guys let them make happy so they woldnt troll the thread by saying.
"India 1st country of the world in latest missile technology" 

Let them happy on words.

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## MZUBAIR

indianrabbit said:


> Pakistan is ahead in Missile technology from us, there is no point arguing. Whatever they did they manged it well. Our missiles are not that bad either, as some of our Pakistani friends say. Failure is part of development, we had failures no issue, *What is surprising is that Pakistan had no failure's at all.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Beacuse of the quality management and planning.
> The sucessful projects are Alkahlid, Alzarar, JF-17 and number of cruse and ballistic missels, UAV's, submarines etc.....


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## rizwan78

We have read a lot in the past in Indian news papers, militery forms, blogs where they are frequently bashing on every achievement of Pakistan, china got in the past. you can never expect to hear good from them, you can never understand there Ideology, I mean it is very childish to say that LCA is a big achievement for us , and a JF-17, Or J-10 copy of Levi or Old Mig, for just because it have 2 Wings, like every jet have *one right and one in Left* or the missile they have are copies of chines missiles just because there( Pakistan) tale was burning like theirs (China, N.Korea)? 
My message to them is to stop bashing and acting like kids , No one in the world wants to listen you, *A stranger dog can stop barking when ignored once why dont you* ?


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## mughaljee

rizwan78 said:


> you can never expect to hear good from them, you can never understand there Ideology[/B]


Rightly said,

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## rizwan78

dillip said:


> If Pakistan has better missiles, why did they lost to India in Kargil war.
> Although Pakistan initially captured 200 sq.km of Indian territory and that too on higher altitudes than Indian army bases, still then they lost the war. *4000 Pakistani army men killed in contrast to 527 Indian army men*.



If India has better missiles, why did they have not attacked Pakistan yet ? i bet any Indian Govt will not allow DARDO to test its missile with an arm warhead. because they dont want to lose hundreds lives of JANATA due to these fail test every week.


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## PWFI

About kargil, mr.DILIP you really need to analyse , with political and millitry point of vue! 


if you know the reality ,so you must stop doing prapoganda their because we know what was the reallity! 

About pakistani missiles vs indisans , it's same to compare lambourgini vs "dodian da " yamah ! (dodi=people who sale milk on motor bike) if you need some documentry about it , tell me!


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## Red Dwarf

PWFI said:


> About kargil, mr.DILIP you really need to analyse , with political and *millitry *point of* vue!*
> 
> 
> * if you know the reality ,so you must stop doing prapoganda their because we know what was the reallity! *
> 
> About pakistani missiles vs *indisans* , it's same to compare *lambourgini vs "dodian da " yamah !:*rofl: (dodi=people who sale milk on motor bike) if you need some *documentry *about it , tell me!



Informative post


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## abbasniazi

dillip said:


> If Pakistan has better missiles, why did they lost to India in Kargil war.
> Although Pakistan initially captured 200 sq.km of Indian territory and that too on higher altitudes than Indian army bases, still then they lost the war. 4000 Pakistani army men killed in contrast to 527 Indian army men.



Pakistanis were on one peak and Indian Army on the other and you were on the third peak with binoculars and calculator, counting bodies on both sides, Right?

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## pmano

illuminatus said:


> ^^ Who cares what China or anyone else for that matter gives to Pakistan? At least, the Pakistanis have the brain to acknowledge that they should rely on credible deterrence. Deterrence which has been thoroughly improved by our scientists without having to reinvent the wheel so to speak. Deterrence that hasn't been a waste of resource. We are proud to have such allies that are willing to help Pakistan out in time of need.
> 
> That's an outrageous lie. India is the biggest beneficiary of outside assistance from nuclear weapons to a bullet. In fact, India despite having the help of the likes of Russia, Israel and the Western world in general is still a humongous failure. India has all the help in the world yet is unable to conduct tests without hiccups and failures. That's certainly something to ponder upon for many Indians. LOL You Indians actually believe in fairy tales.


@ Illuminati guy
Dude talking about fairy tales...The biggest of them is "a pakistani"..which says that Pakistan is better in every military technology aspect in comparison to India....I agree with you 50% ..as the complete 100% part is that people in both country love fairy tales..because they belong to common south asian "Indic" race.thats one of the common traits for you.

@ this thread 

Pakistan has done great job in missile technology..Their rapid development proves it...They certainly are among top...!

Regards

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## pmano

MZUBAIR said:


> Its hard for Indians to hear that Pakistan is way ahead in missel techno then India.
> So guys let them make happy so they woldnt troll the thread by saying.
> "India 1st country of the world in latest missile technology"
> 
> Let them happy on words.



No we accept it. Pakistani missiles are better..and they need them to be better..far better...India don't need much of missile technology ..the Whole of pakistan is in 700 km range... Infact I would say Why should india waste more money..but we have some other problem... we do need some thing in the range of 4000..just Incase China makes a mistake..


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## Novice09

dillip said:


> If Pakistan has better missiles, why did they lost to India in Kargil war.
> Although Pakistan initially captured 200 sq.km of Indian territory and that too on higher altitudes than Indian army bases, still then they lost the war. 4000 Pakistani army men killed in contrast to 527 Indian army men.



Dillip, first of all, Kargil was an another coward operation by Pakistan Army to destabilize the Indian territory and it was not an open war between these two nations.

Secondly, even India haven't used there missiles in this war.

Third, though the terrorists (including PA personnel) were at high attitudes, they were not getting help from other end to survive the drubbing by Indian Army.

AT LAST....

You can say copied, help from China, larceny or anything else... but the bottom line is that they have some better missiles than India.

*The Shaheen-II : intermediate range ballistic missile (IRBM)*

The most advanced ballistic missile in service with the military of Pakistan.

The Shaheen-II warhead may change its trajectory several times during re-entry and during the terminal phase, effectively preventing ABM radar systems from calculating pre-calculated intercept points. The re-entry vehicle is also stated to utilise a GPS satellite guidance system to provide updates on its position, further improving its accuracy and reducing the CEP.

*Agni-II : medium range ballistic missile (MRBM)*

The Agni-II's navigation and aiming uses an advanced ground based beacon system using a TDOA (Time Delay Of Arrival) technique, similar to a GPS system, that constantly provides missile flight position and velocity updates and has been proven in test flights.

ranges from 2000 km to 2500 km







Here is the better Indian Missile

*Babur : land attack cruise missile*

Launched from ground-based transporter erector launchers, warships, submarines and aircraft, Babur can be armed with a conventional or nuclear warhead and has a reported range of 700 km (435 miles). The missile is designed to avoid radar detection and penetrate enemy air defences. Serial production of the Babur started in October 2005.

Babur has a maximum speed of approximately 550mph.

The missile is stated to have a high degree of manoeuvrability, allowing it to "hug" the terrain, and "near-stealth" capabilities.

*BrahMos : supersonic cruise missile* One more failed project by DRDO 

It is a joint venture between India's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Russia's NPO Mashinostroeyenia who have together formed the BrahMos Aerospace Private Limited.

BrahMos have the capability of attacking surface targets as low as 10 meters in altitude. It can gain a speed of Mach 2.8, and has a maximum range of 290 km. The ship-launched and land-based missiles can carry a 200 kg warhead, whereas the aircraft-launched variant (BrahMos A) can carry a 300 kg warhead.

*P.S. : India's only fully operational missiles are the Prithvi missile (150&#8211;350 km).*


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## mughaljee

Novice09 said:


> BrahMos have the capability of attacking surface targets as low as 10 meters in altitude.[/B]


for God's saak


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## T-Rex

Ababeel said:


> Webmaster wrote today that Pakistan is on number 3 in missile technology after testing CM Babur. Can anyone tell me how, when still it has no air to air missile , no long range SAM missile (15-30km) and no ABM & no RADAR technology developments and there are no news if any R & D going on to develop these. So how come it came on number 3.
> Is there any one to reply and clear the doubts




Overconfidence is an inherent trait of all Muslim leaders and planners and so it is in this case. We just love to bomblast, so take it as a joke.


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## bc040400065

malaymishra123 said:


> It is...



as always you would be negative about pakistan. always in a state of deniel. but never mind if pakistan's missile tech was not so advance then y india went for anti ballistic missile defence systems and that to with israel help. It shows something special about pakistan missile tech.

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## desiman




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## indiankiller

rizwan78 said:


> If India has better missiles, why did they have not attacked Pakistan yet ? i bet any Indian Govt will not allow DARDO to test its missile with an arm warhead. because they dont want to lose hundreds lives of JANATA due to these fail test every week.



The day Pakistan builds its own rocket and sends satellite in Space, then I will think that Pakistan has done something substantial in technology.Other-wise boasting on the borrowed chinese missile technology and terming it as your own is stupidness. 
India, having a missile but not have attacked Pakistan is something sounds very funny. Had it been the case, then India should have used nuclear attack on Pakistan right after 1970's nuclear test.


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## Super Falcon

i think we are best in asia for missile tech and zinadabad pakistan

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## Righteous_Fire

Super Falcon said:


> i think we are best in asia for missile tech and zinadabad pakistan



I cannot believe what made our Pakistani bros think to fill all these pages with utter nonsense 

Pakistan is nowhere near the top ones as this thread goes on to say, not even in Asia!

countries like China, Israel, Japan etc. are far ahead of us in this regard.

Pleasing ourselves with hyped untrue over confident propaganda wont help us achieve anything 

There is only one thing that we can be sure about, in SOME fields of this tech, we ARE ahead of India, but even then not in all 

take for example cryogenic engines, India is decades ahead of us in this field.

So dont be mislead by half truths and lies

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## DESERT FIGHTER

indiankiller said:


> The day Pakistan builds its own rocket and sends satellite in Space, then I will think that Pakistan has done something substantial in technology.*Other-wise boasting on the borrowed chinese missile technology and terming it as your own is stupidness. *



Cant stop laughin.I think u will congrajulat us pretty soon then.We are sending 3 sats in three years.And last ones from our own SLV.
And about our missile techno i wonder if chinese have Babur,raad or shaheen or such missiles.

Bu russians do have the original missile u copied brahmos from tht was made operational after *decades*


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## desiman

Super Falcon said:


> i think we are best in asia for missile tech and zinadabad pakistan


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## LCA Tejas

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Cant stop laughin.I think u will congrajulat us pretty soon then.We are sending 3 sats in three years.And last ones from our own SLV.
> And about our missile techno i wonder if chinese have Babur,raad or shaheen or such missiles.
> 
> Bu russians do have the original missile u copied brahmos from tht was made operational after *decades*



Pakistan going to send SLV, send it first and we will take that as a formidable step by pakistan.... and as far as BRAHMOS is concerned, it will be hard for you to digest even if some one mentions that 50.5 &#37; of contribution is ours.... And Anyways its the only supersonic cruise missile in the world, and its ours, you dont need to burn on it.. we also have air land and water versions, and next Underwater submarine launch version is also in development

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## niaz

Super Falcon said:


> i think we are best in asia for missile tech and zinadabad pakistan



Hon Super Falcon,

Hate to be a spoil sport, but let us not get carried away. You dont think that China is in the Asia? Also are you forgetting that our missiles were initially based on the technology borrowed from North Korea? 

I am a Pakistani too and equally proud of the technical prowess of our scientists, but must we completely take leave of rational thought in our wishful thinking?

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## Developereo

LCA Tejas said:


> BRAHMOS is concerned, it will be hard for you to digest even if some one mentions that 50.5 &#37; of contribution is ours.... And Anyways its the only supersonic cruise missile in the world, and its ours, you dont need to burn on it.. we also have air land and water versions, and next Underwater submarine launch version is also in development



Brahmos threat is exaggerated. In fact, precisely *because* of its supersonic speed, it generates such an enormous heat signature that makes it a magnet for heat-seaking missiles.

Note: this heat signature is due to air friction against its body, nothing to do with the exhaust system.

Also, the crucial propulsion system was provided by the Russians. The only Indian contribution was the inertial guidance/computer system.


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## LCA Tejas

Developereo said:


> Brahmos threat is exaggerated. In fact, precisely *because* of its supersonic speed, it generates such an enormous heat signature that makes it a magnet for heat-seaking missiles.
> 
> Note: this heat signature is due to air friction against its body, nothing to do with the exhaust system.
> 
> Also, the crucial propulsion system was provided by the Russians. The only Indian contribution was the inertial guidance/computer system.



And its not possible to Intercept it....and a hypersonic version is heading its way


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## Developereo

LCA Tejas said:


> And its not possible to Intercept it....



Any projectile can be intercepted. All the interceptor has to do is to be in the Brahmos flight path. And the interceptor missile doesn't need to give itself away since it is silent and zeroing in on the Brahmos' heat signature.

Why do you suppose the West has essentially dismissed the Brahmos as a threat?



LCA Tejas said:


> and a hypersonic version is heading its way



Great! An even bigger heat signature for the interecptors to zero in on.


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## LCA Tejas

Developereo said:


> Any projectile can be intercepted. All the interceptor has to do is to be in the Brahmos flight path. And the interceptor missile doesn't need to give itself away since it is silent and zeroing in on the Brahmos' heat signature.



the only problem is, that has not yet been developed... Its a fire and forget missile Btw...





Developereo said:


> Great! An even bigger heat signature for the interecptors to zero in on.



the people who work on these missiles are more intelligent than you and me...


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## Developereo

LCA Tejas said:


> the people who work on these missiles are more intelligent than you and me...



Undoubtedly. But the designers of interceptor missile are not stupid either.

And the laws of physics are the same for everybody.


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## LCA Tejas

Developereo said:


> Undoubtedly. But the designers of interceptor missile are not stupid either.
> 
> And the laws of physics are the same for everybody.



There is no need to belittile anyone, the only thig I said that, there is no interpretor missile designed as of now to intercept this BRAHMOS.... The only way to intercept is, calculate its speed,altitude,your range, your missile speed and fire your luck at that but that too is impossible by the time you calculate BRAHMOS will reach its target....

There is no missile which does not produce heat, but this is mainly because of its speed, and with this speed its impossible for any missile to counter it... come on hope you are not joking.


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## manglasiva

Developereo said:


> Any projectile can be intercepted. All the interceptor has to do is to be in the Brahmos flight path. And the interceptor missile doesn't need to give itself away since it is silent and zeroing in on the Brahmos' heat signature.
> Why do you suppose the West has essentially dismissed the Brahmos as a threat?
> Great! An even bigger heat signature for the interecptors to zero in on.



to intercept at such high speed..ur interceptor should also be more fast !! and to have an ABM with more range and speed..the cost becomes prohibitive for a poor country like Pakistan.and I heard a rumor that they 're doing some work on spinning to make it more hard and minimize damage due to impact. DRDO/IA is planning to have number of Brahmos systems in Thousands, in reality u should also have batteries of interceptors..

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## sab

Developereo said:


> Brahmos threat is exaggerated. In fact, precisely *because* of its supersonic speed, it generates such an enormous heat signature that makes it a magnet for heat-seaking missiles.
> 
> Note: this heat signature is due to air friction against its body, nothing to do with the exhaust system.
> 
> Also, *the crucial propulsion system was provided by the Russians. * The only Indian contribution was the inertial guidance/computer system.



May be you are right about Russians supplying propulsion system for Brahmos. But India successfully uses the same Ramjet propulsion system in Missile like Akash SAM which are now being inducted in large number.

_The Akash ,like the Russian 2K12 Kub (SA-6 Gainful), utilizes an integrated ramjet-rocket propulsion system, which provides thrust for the missile throughout its entire flight. "Because this missile has an integrated ram-rocket, manoeuvrability is highest. The engine is 'on' throughout the flight. The thrust is on till the missile intercepts the target. Most other surface-to-air missiles, including the U.S. Patriot and the Russian S-300 series, use solid-fuel rocket propulsion._


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## Isaq Khan

Developereo said:


> Any projectile can be intercepted. All the interceptor has to do is to be in the Brahmos flight path. And the interceptor missile doesn't need to give itself away since it is silent and zeroing in on the Brahmos' heat signature.
> 
> Why do you suppose the West has essentially dismissed the Brahmos as a threat?
> 
> 
> *Great! An even bigger heat signature for the interecptors to zero in on.*




No need to be kiddish there is not a kid competition going on.

*Destroying a hypersonic missile is impossible and that' 100% true.*

I give u a example, suppose u have to run with a Cheeta, can u run as fast as Cheeta absolutely no but *u can see Cheeta but can not defeat it.*

The supersonic Brahmos missile or hypersonic Brahmos even if u get to know its fired towards u then it will leave u no time to destroy it.

Because u have to go through many process seeing Brahmos through radars , target tracking, instructing missile to intercept it, time taken by missile to launch and then zoom towards Brahmos and then running with Brahmos maneuverability and destroy it.


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## killer343

Developereo said:


> Brahmos threat is exaggerated. In fact, precisely *because* of its supersonic speed, it generates such an enormous heat signature that makes it a magnet for heat-seaking missiles.
> 
> *Note: this heat signature is due to air friction against its body, nothing to do with the exhaust system.*
> 
> Also, the crucial propulsion system was provided by the Russians. The only Indian contribution was the inertial guidance/computer system.



*Brahmos weight 3000 kg speed mach 2.8 = 952.81200 m / s
Speed of average bullet 0.012 kg 400 ms *

FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF BULLET
Is impossible to catch a bullet than how can you intercept missile which is more than 2x fold of its speed.......


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## Isaq Khan

*I will give you another example suppose a current version of the Brahmos missile which is already deployed is launched*


*The Distance between Srinagar (Jammu and Kashmir,India) and Islamabad (Islamabad,Pakistan) is : 170.62 kilometers (km).


The speed of current version of Brahmos is : around 1 km per second

Brahmos will take 170 seconds or less than 3 minutes to strike at Islamabad, now tell me how u will counter it.*

*And u must also remember hypersonic Brahmos will be there by 2012 which will have about 3 times the speed of current version of Brahmos.*


The Distance between Amritsar (Punjab,India) and Lahore Airfield (Punjab,Pakistan) [Airport] is : 45.48 kilometers (km). 

*It will not take even a minute i.e. only 45 seconds to strike in Lahore.*


So stop assumptions and realize the truth even US and China can't destroy it. US has developed a ship based defense system (The RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM)) to destroy supersonic missiles but not hypersonic.

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## Developereo

The spate of Indian tantrums notwithstanding, the fact is that Brahmos is super/hyper *sonic*. Get it? sonic, as in the speed of sound.

Now the speed of electronic calculations and radar tracking is measured in milli/microseconds, not minutes, so any interceptor missile will have plenty of time to intercept the Brahmos.

Why on earth would an interceptor have to catch up to Brahmos? The Brahmos is coming *towards it*. All the interceptor has to do is to calculate the trajectory and make sure it gets in the way. Boom! End of Brahmos.

So, unless the Brahmos has some sort of optical detection mechanism and constant evasive maneouvering (impossible at that speed), it is easy to intercept. Especially since the interceptor missile is invisible to Brahmos; it is not emitting any radar because it is looking at the Brahmos massive heat signature.

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## Isaq Khan

Developereo said:


> The spate of Indian tantrums notwithstanding, the fact is that Brahmos is super/hyper *sonic*. Get it? sonic, as in the speed of sound.
> 
> Now the speed of electronic calculations and radar tracking is measured in milli/microseconds, not minutes, so any interceptor missile will have plenty of time to intercept the Brahmos.
> 
> Why on earth would an interceptor have to catch up to Brahmos? The Brahmos is coming *towards it*. All the interceptor has to do is to calculate the trajectory and make sure it gets in the way. Boom! End of Brahmos.



Yaar, ab to maan ja.

Why make ur self a laughing stroke.

I have taken part with American and European in military forum even they agree with me on this.

*U r claiming Pakistan have got 100&#37; full poof air defense from every type of most sophisticated missiles in the world.*

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## Kompromat

@ Developero sir , What are the chances of Jamming the Brahmos or its Mission computer ?


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## LCA Tejas

Developereo said:


> The spate of Indian tantrums notwithstanding, the fact is that Brahmos is super/hyper *sonic*. Get it? sonic, as in the speed of sound.
> 
> Now the speed of electronic calculations and radar tracking is measured in milli/microseconds, not minutes, so any interceptor missile will have plenty of time to intercept the Brahmos.
> 
> Why on earth would an interceptor have to catch up to Brahmos? The Brahmos is coming *towards it*. All the interceptor has to do is to calculate the trajectory and make sure it gets in the way. Boom! End of Brahmos.
> 
> So, unless the Brahmos has some sort of optical detection mechanism and constant evasive maneouvering (impossible at that speed), it is easy to intercept. Especially since the interceptor missile is invisible to Brahmos; it is not emitting any radar because it is looking at the Brahmos massive heat signature.



its is 2-3 times faster than a bullet, if it was the way you think, why even the greatest of minds havent been able to develop a machine to counter it??

First of all, by the time Radars trace it, it hits the target... fo an interceptor missile to launch, it takes certain calculations such as the altitude, speed and the velocity and the time it takes to reach the point where you intend your ABM to destroy Brahmos, The problem is it takes man hours to make such calculations... and BRAHMOS hits its target by then....


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## killer343

I think a trail should be conduct to from here to Developereo place......I think only then wo mana ga


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## Developereo

Isaq Khan said:


> I have taken part with American and European in military forum even they agree with me on this.



Uh huh. I am sure they do. 

_argumentum ad verecundiam_ 



Isaq Khan said:


> *U r claiming Pakistan have got 100% full poof air defense from every type of most sophisticated missiles in the world.*



No, I am claiming that the Brahmos threat is exaggerated and it can be intercepted by a subsonic missile.


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## Developereo

Black blood said:


> @ Developero sir , What are the chances of Jamming the Brahmos or its Mission computer ?



Don't know, boss. I am sure people are working on it, but I was simply focussed on demonstrating that it can be intercepted. People confuse _intercepting_ it with _overtaking_ it. The two have nothing to do with each other.



LCA Tejas said:


> if it was the way you think, why even the greatest of minds havent been able to develop a machine to counter it??



And you know this because....?



LCA Tejas said:


> First of all, by the time Radars trace it, it hits the target... fo an interceptor missile to launch, it takes certain calculations such as the altitude, speed and the velocity and the time it takes to reach the point where you intend your ABM to destroy Brahmos, The problem is it takes man hours to make such calculations... and BRAHMOS hits its target by then....



Maybe on Indian computers.
Modern radar systems and computers can count the blades on a jet engine in real time. Calculating the trajectory of an aircraft, even at hypersonic speeds, is trivial. Especially one like the Brahmos which, due to its high speed, cannot make sudden evasive maneouvers.

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## Isaq Khan

Black blood said:


> @ Developero sir , What are the chances of Jamming the Brahmos or its Mission computer ?




The currently deployed Brahmos:

- *is made to reduce radar and Ir signatures, hence making it hard for it tobe detected,* a Indian developed "radar absorbing pait(like the one in the us planes) is being tested on the brahmos

- *has multiple flight trajectories, and multiple way point options, hence the missile can approach the target from any directions,*

-* has he ability to "swarm" , that is communicating with fellow brahmos missiles, hence ensuring that not all hit one target, or if needed take out a target that survived an attack(the chances of one surviving a brahmos attack is very very low indeed)*

- *is especially ahrdned agasint jamming/spoofing/countermeasures. its an area into which much effort was put, cos unless a missile is ensured not to be fooled by electronic and phsical countermeasure..whats the use in developing a missile*

- *has counter Electronic warfare capability, but the technical details are kept a secret*

- can "maneuver" as is approaches the target, hence ensuring even more survivability

- *a super fast computer and programming by India* (all avionics and electronics are provided by India) ensure that this missile dsoent have the prob the older anti ship missiles had, that is insufficient time to acquire a target in supersonic speeds, or to differentiate fthe target from countermeasures.*multiple tests have shown that brahmos is not fooled that way, and can easily sort out electronics and physical"clutter" from the actual target.*

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## kallol

Developereo said:


> The spate of Indian tantrums notwithstanding, the fact is that Brahmos is super/hyper *sonic*. Get it? sonic, as in the speed of sound.
> 
> Now the speed of electronic calculations and radar tracking is measured in milli/microseconds, not minutes, so any interceptor missile will have plenty of time to intercept the Brahmos.
> 
> Why on earth would an interceptor have to catch up to Brahmos? The Brahmos is coming *towards it*. All the interceptor has to do is to calculate the trajectory and make sure it gets in the way. Boom! End of Brahmos.
> 
> So, unless the Brahmos has some sort of optical detection mechanism and constant evasive maneouvering (impossible at that speed), it is easy to intercept. Especially since the interceptor missile is invisible to Brahmos; it is not emitting any radar because it is looking at the Brahmos massive heat signature.



You are right in assuming that the interceptor is coming from the forward direction. However there are a few points to be noted :

1. Brahmos is a cruise missile, so it can alter the path on detection of any adversary. Which once done and effected will leave the interceptor no chance

2. The interceptor does not come head on but at an angle, so the chance of hit is negligible. And that too the intelligence embedded in onboard computer is designed for avoiding these kind of obstacles. 

Yes that is why it is deadly as it has triple advantage : fast, accurate and maneuvering. 

Similar technology of target acquiring is being put in other missiles, so the CEP is very low.


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## sab

Theoritically hypersonic cruise missile can be intercepted.

Practically, (with avialable technologhy) even a sub-sonic cruise missile is hard to intercept.


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## Developereo

Isaq Khan said:


> The currently deployed Brahmos:
> 
> - *is made to reduce radar and Ir signatures, hence making it hard for it tobe detected,* a Indian developed "radar absorbing pait(like the one in the us planes) is being tested on the brahmos
> 
> - *has multiple flight trajectories, and multiple way point options, hence the missile can approach the target from any directions,*
> 
> -* has he ability to "swarm" , that is communicating with fellow brahmos missiles, hence ensuring that not all hit one target, or if needed take out a target that survived an attack(the chances of one surviving a brahmos attack is very very low indeed)*
> 
> - *is especially ahrdned agasint jamming/spoofing/countermeasures. its an area into which much effort was put, cos unless a missile is ensured not to be fooled by electronic and phsical countermeasure..whats the use in developing a missile*
> 
> - *has counter Electronic warfare capability, but the technical details are kept a secret*
> 
> - can "maneuver" as is approaches the target, hence ensuring even more survivability
> 
> - *a super fast computer and programming by India* (all avionics and electronics are provided by India) ensure that this missile dsoent have the prob the older anti ship missiles had, that is insufficient time to acquire a target in supersonic speeds, or to differentiate fthe target from countermeasures.*multiple tests have shown that brahmos is not fooled that way, and can easily sort out electronics and physical"clutter" from the actual target.*



I am sure *all* of those things are true.
And *none* of those things will help when an interceptor (or a fleet thereof) shows up in its flight path at the last minute. The interceptor is invisible to the Brahmos; it is flying silently, homing in on the Brahmos *massive* friction heat signature.



kallol said:


> 1. Brahmos is a cruise missile, so it can alter the path on detection of any adversary. Which once done and effected will leave the interceptor no chance
> 
> 2. The interceptor does not come head on but at an angle, so the chance of hit is negligible. And that too the intelligence embedded in onboard computer is designed for avoiding these kind of obstacles.



It can't evade what it can't see. The interceptors are invisible to it.


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## Isaq Khan

self delete


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## policecontrolroom

i hope with Pakistan now in 3rd position for their missile capabilities UK, France, Germany, china, Israel, Spain , Italy and all will be queuing up for some technology transfer from the brilliant minds..


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## Isaq Khan

Developereo said:


> I am sure *all* of those things are true.
> And *none* of those things will help when an interceptor (or a fleet thereof) shows up in its flight path at the last minute. The interceptor is invisible to the Brahmos; it is flying silently, homing in on the Brahmos *massive* friction heat signature.
> 
> 
> 
> It can't evade what it can't see. The interceptors are invisible to it.



U can evade bad smell but u can't see smell, can u see smell???????????


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## Isaq Khan

Brhmos uses an &#8220;S&#8221; manoeuvre to be able to evade an interceptor.

Brahmos can manoeuvre evan at supersonic speed.

And intersepting missile can't destroy it because of Brahmos's pace and "S" maneuverability.


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## LCA Tejas

Developereo said:


> Don't know, boss. I am sure people are working on it, but I was simply focussed on demonstrating that it can be intercepted. People confuse _intercepting_ it with _overtaking_ it. The two have nothing to do with each other.



Intercepting a normal ballistic missile is possible, but this is a super sonic cruise missile.... tell me how on earth can you co-ordinate a counter attack in such small time frame??? and moreover its radar signatures are very low,built very stealth,It gives High super sonic speed all through the flight





Developereo said:


> And you know this because....?



I know it because There is no weapon system developed as of now to counter supersonic cruise missiles, todays ABM'S are limited only to engaging sub sonic missiles....





Developereo said:


> Maybe on Indian computers.
> Modern radar systems and computers can count the blades on a jet engine in real time. Calculating the trajectory of an aircraft, even at hypersonic speeds, is trivial. Especially one like the Brahmos which, due to its high speed, cannot make sudden evasive maneouvers.



I dint know that pakistani radars can figure out a supersonic missile with low radar signature the moment it reaches the territory , the world is not adavanced enough as that of pakistan, happy now?


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## Isaq Khan

By the way guys why are we debating all this in a Pakistani missile thread???????????


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## Developereo

Isaq Khan said:


> Brhmos uses an S manoeuvre to be able to evade an interceptor.
> 
> Brahmos can manoeuvre evan at supersonic speed.
> 
> And intersepting missile can't destroy it because of Brahmos's pace and "S" maneuverability.



Oh dear, the "S" manoeuver. Not the dreaded "S" manoeuver....



LCA Tejas said:


> Intercepting a normal ballistic missile is possible, but this is a super sonic cruise missile.... tell me how on earth can you co-ordinate a counter attack in such small time frame??? and moreover its radar signatures are very low,built very stealth,It gives High super sonic speed all through the flight



Haven't you been reading? It's the friction heat signature, not the radar or exhaust heat.



LCA Tejas said:


> I know it because There is no weapon system developed as of now to counter supersonic cruise missiles, todays ABM'S are limited only to engaging sub sonic missiles....



Like I said, the West doesn't take the Brahmos too seriously. Because it is possible to intercept it. And if something is possible, you can bet it has been done, or someone is working on it.



LCA Tejas said:


> I dint know that pakistani radars can figure out a supersonic missile with low radar signature the moment it reaches the territory , the world is not adavanced enough as that of pakistan, happy now?



I didn't say Pakistan has the capability; only that it is possible. I am sure the Chinese have the infrastructure and brains to develop an interceptor. And, if it becomes necessary, Pakistan can get it from China.

It would be nice if Pakistan had the technological infrastructure to develop it ourselves, but we do not. For now we rely on third parties.


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## Isaq Khan

LCA Tejas said:


> Intercepting a normal ballistic missile is possible, but this is a super sonic cruise missile.... tell me how on earth can you co-ordinate a counter attack in such small time frame??? and moreover its radar signatures are very low,built very stealth,It gives High super sonic speed all through the flight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know it because There is no weapon system developed as of now to counter supersonic cruise missiles, todays ABM'S are limited only to engaging sub sonic missiles....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dint know that pakistani radars can figure out a supersonic missile with low radar signature the moment it reaches the territory , the world is not adavanced enough as that of pakistan, happy now?





Buddy,

He have to understand

1. Super sonic
2. Maneuverability
3. Interceptor
4. Cruise missile
5. trajectory
6. altitude etc.

Also he is not ready to see how close is Lahore and Islamabad from Indian border. Under 150 kms i.e. less than 3 minutes from hitting target.

How on earth they can detect and destroy a SUPER SONIC CRUISE MISSILE.


----------



## Isaq Khan

Developereo said:


> Oh dear, the "S" manoeuver. Not the dreaded "S" manoeuver....
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't you been reading? It's the friction heat signature, not the radar or exhaust heat.
> 
> 
> 
> *Like I said, the West doesn't take the Brahmos too seriously. Because it is possible to intercept it. And if something is possible, you can bet it has been done, or someone is working on it.*
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say Pakistan has the capability; only that it is possible. I am sure the Chinese have the infrastructure and brains to develop an interceptor. And, if it becomes necessary, Pakistan can get it from China.
> 
> It would be nice if Pakistan had the technological infrastructure to develop it ourselves, but we do not. For now we rely on third parties.



1. How do u came to concludes that west don't take Brahmos seriously????

2. Moreover, we don't have any enmity with west.

3. And don't talk like someone must be working on it kind of. Everyone is working on something, we are not debating Brahmos not running wild houses of imagination.


----------



## policecontrolroom

> Buddy,
> 
> He have to understand
> 
> 1. Super sonic
> 2. Maneuverability
> 3. Interceptor
> 4. Cruise missile
> 5. trajectory
> 6. altitude etc.
> 
> Also he is not ready to see how close is Lahore and Islamabad from Indian border. Under 150 kms i.e. less than 3 minutes from hitting target.
> 
> How on earth they can detect and destroy a SUPER SONIC CRUISE MISSILE



maybe throwing some stones when it passes over through LOC???


3 minutes is such a short time i dont think anything can be done when its launched considering the *capability* of the missile.


its launch and BOOOOOOMMMMM


----------



## Hulk

By the way this section is about Pakistan's Missile system being 3rd in World. I do not believe you are third.
1) USA
2) Russia
3) China
...


----------



## sab

DEVELEPEREDO

I could not understand the heat signature part. You were talking about heat generated by friction. Right??? But the intercepter will not only see the heat signature at present position of the missile but same heat signature in the flight path the missile immediately left behind (which can be few km long for a supersonic missile. That means the intercepter will not see a point as a target but a trail which giving similar heat signature.
Hope the picture below can clarify it.


----------



## Developereo

Isaq Khan said:


> 1. How do u came to concludes that west don't take Brahmos seriously????



There were a number of articles in the Western press. I think STRATFOR had one or two also.



Isaq Khan said:


> 3. And don't talk like someone must be working on it kind of. Everyone is working on something, we are not debating Brahmos not running wild houses of imagination.



I agree I don't know of an existing system to intercept it, only that it is theoretically possible. If your potential enemy develops a weapon, don't you think countries (China) would be developing counter measures?



desi jatt said:


> Guys I think Developereo is not ready to accept the fact that there is no way to counter the Brahmos.For him only the heat signature left by brahmos is enough for the interceptor to detect and destroy it and to add to this the brahmos can't manouver due to its speedy nature(our scientist were foolish to use an onboard computer to help the missile manouver mid way and communicate with other misslies) that makes the job even easier for the interception.
> 
> Secondly
> 
> @Developereo can I ask why is Pakistan still investing on new missiles though they know that their missiles can be easily intercepted (as u say it) especially by India which is set to have one of the best missile defence system.And that too when you don't have a missile like Brahmos which is fast but still which according to you can be intercepted.



Well, if Indian ABM systems take "man hours" to calculate incoming missile trajectories, we have nothing to worry about 

But seriously, AFAIK, India does not have the capability to intercept cruise missiles. I am sure it is working on it. But in any case, the higher speed of the Brahmos is actually a _disadvantage_ in terms of heat signature and detectability.



indianrabbit said:


> By the way this section is about Pakistan's Missile system being 3rd in World. I do not believe you are third.
> 1) USA
> 2) Russia
> 3) China
> ...



I agree.



sab said:


> DEVELEPEREDO
> 
> I could not understand the heat signature part. You were talking about heat generated by friction. Right??? But the intercepter will not only see the heat signature at present position of the missile but same heat signature in the flight path the missile immediately left behind (which can be few km long for a supersonic missile. That means the intercepter will not see a point as a target but a trail which giving similar heat signature.



Correct. It will see a trail, but it can calculate the head of the trail and which way it is moving. Remember, IR is radiation and travels at the speed of light. And with fast computers on board, even a hypersonic missile is moving at snail's pace. And I doubt the Brahmos zigzags around during most of its flight just for the sake of it.


----------



## LCA Tejas

Developereo said:


> Oh dear, the "S" manoeuver. Not the dreaded "S" manoeuver....
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't you been reading? It's the friction heat signature, not the radar or exhaust heat.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said, the West doesn't take the Brahmos too seriously. Because it is possible to intercept it. And if something is possible, you can bet it has been done, or someone is working on it.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say Pakistan has the capability; only that it is possible. I am sure the Chinese have the infrastructure and brains to develop an interceptor. And, if it becomes necessary, Pakistan can get it from China.
> 
> It would be nice if Pakistan had the technological infrastructure to develop it ourselves, but we do not. For now we rely on third parties.



buddy, its easy to wake up a person whose asleep, but impossible to wake a up a person who is pretending to be asleep, no matter how much I tell you about it, you will not accept it, rather cling on your facts... the only advise from me to you is... google it and find yourself if it can be intercepted or not...


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## Developereo

desi jatt said:


> @Developereo My question to you has not been answered yet so I ask it again...... why is Pakistan still investing on new missiles though they know that their missiles can be easily intercepted (as u say it) especially by India which is set to have one of the best missile defence system.And that too when you don't have a missile like Brahmos which is fast but still which according to you can be intercepted.



Why do countries continue to make aircraft even through they can be shot down? Or tanks? Or ballistic missiles?

It's about having a range of options in an offensive/defensive role.


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## sab

There you goes wrong. The intercepter needs a human brain to understand the head of the trail. I t only knows to booooom the source of highest heat emmission. It is possible to take on a aircraft or a missile which travels in lower speed (simply because heat generation is less and hardly there will be a trail, generally intercepter follows the thin emission from engine which will be hiden by massive heat formation in case of Brahmos). But to intercept a supersonic cruise missile many upgradation needed though theoritacally it is vey well possible.

Coming to reality, none of india's rivals have such arrangement at least at present.


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## manglasiva

Developereo missile will hit the trail ..by the time Brahmos will be sending signals back of its successful mission


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## Hyde

Isaq Khan said:


> *I will give you another example suppose a current version of the Brahmos missile which is already deployed is launched*
> 
> 
> *The Distance between Srinagar (Jammu and Kashmir,India) and Islamabad (Islamabad,Pakistan) is : 170.62 kilometers (km).
> 
> 
> The speed of current version of Brahmos is : around 1 km per second
> 
> Brahmos will take 170 seconds or less than 3 minutes to strike at Islamabad, now tell me how u will counter it.*
> 
> *And u must also remember hypersonic Brahmos will be there by 2012 which will have about 3 times the speed of current version of Brahmos.*
> 
> 
> The Distance between Amritsar (Punjab,India) and Lahore Airfield (Punjab,Pakistan) [Airport] is : 45.48 kilometers (km).
> 
> *It will not take even a minute i.e. only 45 seconds to strike in Lahore.*
> 
> 
> So stop assumptions and realize the truth even US and China can't destroy it. US has developed a ship based defense system (The RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM)) to destroy supersonic missiles but not hypersonic.



well due to short distance between the both countries............ expect the similar answer from Pakistan too

If we fire Babur to Amritsar that is 45 Kilometers as you mentioned

then see

800km/hour is babur....... how long is it going to target Amritsar? 2-3 minutes?

You don't inform your enemy when you are going to fire missiles right.... and due to extremely short distance it is highly likely it is going to hit your targets too


----------



## LCA Tejas

Zaki said:


> well due to short distance between the both countries............ expect the similar answer from Pakistan too
> 
> If we fire Babur to Amritsar that is 45 Kilometers as you mentioned
> 
> then see
> 
> 800km/hour is babur....... how long is it going to target Amritsar? 2-3 minutes?
> 
> You don't inform your enemy when you are going to fire missiles right.... and due to extremely short distance it is highly likely it is going to hit your targets too



Why take so much risk, get it near the LOC and drop it across.... thats the only way to nuke... India has interceptor missiles... how about you? and Babur has low radar signature? And baburs speed is just 800km/hour , AAD or PAD is MACH 4.5 and MACH 5 each....


----------



## Developereo

sab said:


> There you goes wrong. The intercepter needs a human brain to understand the head of the trail.



Sorry, no. You take two readings and compute which way the trail is moving. It's not hard at all. I bet most university-level courses would include designing such an algorithm. The basic concept is downright trivial.



sab said:


> Coming to reality, none of india's rivals have such arrangement at least at present.



True. At present.



desi jatt said:


> Similarly countries use different measures to make their missiles less vulnerable to interceptors using modern technology and they continue doing so because they get results.Even in this case the Brahmos has been developed using the technology which makes it fast enough to not be countered by any interceptor.So I think now you should accept that Brahmos cannot be intercepted due to its speed.



AFAIK, the Brahmos does not incorporate any technology to reduce friction heat signature. Remember, we are not talking exhaust heat, but friction heat against the missile body.


----------



## sab

Developereo said:


> Sorry, no. * You take two readings *and compute which way the trail is moving. It's not hard at all. I bet most university-level courses would include designing such an algorithm. It is downright trivial.
> 
> 
> 
> True. At present.
> 
> 
> 
> AFAIK, the Brahmos does not incorporate any technology to reduce friction heat signature. Remember, we are not talking exhaust heat, but friction heat against the missile body.



Readings of what???
I agree such capability in Interceptors will be incorporated soon as technology is progressing, but any present system???


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## Hyde

LCA Tejas said:


> Why take so much risk, get it near the LOC and drop it across.... thats the only way to nuke... India has interceptor missiles... how about you? and Babur has low radar signature? And baburs speed is just 800km/hour , AAD or PAD is MACH 4.5 and MACH 5 each....



880km/hr 

yes you do have intercepters but how are they going to intercept if the missile is going to hit its target within 2 minutes times 

That is highly unlikely

Both countries can hit each other that is a fact


----------



## Developereo

sab said:


> Readings of what???
> I agree such capability in Interceptors will be incorporated soon as technology is progressing, but any present system???



Infrared sensors, electro-optical sensors.
They are standard miltary equipment.



LCA Tejas said:


> Why take so much risk, get it near the LOC and drop it across.... thats the only way to nuke... India has interceptor missiles... how about you? and Babur has low radar signature? And baburs speed is just 800km/hour , AAD or PAD is MACH 4.5 and MACH 5 each....



Missile defense systems are triggered by enemy missile launch; usually the heat signature. But then the interceptors have to track and intercept the missile. It doesn't matter how fast the interceptor is. If it can't find the missile, it can't intercept it.

I believe Babur is a terrain hugging missile, which is why speed is less important than "stealth" or radar evasion.

I don't think Brahmos is terrain hugging. I could be wrong, but at that speed it would be hard.


----------



## LCA Tejas

Zaki said:


> 880km/hr
> 
> yes you do have intercepters but how are they going to intercept if the missile is going to hit its target within 2 minutes times
> 
> That is highly unlikely
> 
> Both countries can hit each other that is a fact



But how do u know where our ABM'S are placed??? And BRAHMOS no matter where your ABM's are if at all in future if you get any ,will hit the target comfortably ...


----------



## Hyde

LCA Tejas said:


> But how do u know where our ABM'S are placed??? And BRAHMOS no matter where your ABM's are if at all in future if you get any ,will hit the target comfortably ...



well if you think your ABM's will intercept our missiles within 2 minutes of short distance............ that is still ok......... what if we fire say 100 missiles same time 

i guarantee most of them will hit the target


----------



## LCA Tejas

Zaki said:


> well if you think your ABM's will intercept our missiles within 2 minutes of short distance............ that is still ok......... what if we fire say 100 missiles same time
> 
> i guarantee most of them will hit the target



do you have 100 launch pads??? and even if you do... do you know some thing called second strike capability??? 

And there is still no guarentee as your missiles will reach the target.


----------



## Hyde

desi jatt said:


> So you mean to say that Pakistan will fire 100 baburs one after another and Indian authorities will count the numbers while sitting on their terrace.
> 
> Dude, one babur from your end will result in reply from India even before it lands In India.For you two minutes is less but AWACS is there to do the job.But in case India fires brahmos in reply then I would like to know where you will hide theremaining 99 missiles from the launching area.



thats exactly i was saying when Indian members were calculating the distance and the time to hit targets inside Pakistan

You can expect the similar answer from Pakistan too

both countries are well equipped to target each other


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## Hulk

The argument is becoming Childish. Stick to topic please, Pakistan is not 3rd but has good missile system. India is fast catching up. Both can hit each other, no interceptor has 100&#37; hit. Stop going in circles.

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## ameer219

> The argument is becoming Childish. Stick to topic please, Pakistan is not 3rd but has good missile system.




Honestly, the creator of the thread is out of his mind when he said Pakistan has the 3rd best Missile in the world. I love Pakistan, and its my homeland, but as far as patriotism goes, I still want to accept realities and facts.

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## Hulk

ameer219 said:


> Honestly, the creator of the thread is out of his mind when he said Pakistan has the 3rd best Missile in the world. I love Pakistan, and its my homeland, but as far as patriotism goes, I still want to accept realities and facts.



We need people like you on both side, I hate fanboys irrespective of their country. I also feel once should use military for defense only, warmongers are not my friends.

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## ARSENAL6

When is Pakistan going to build its very own cryogenic engines
to launch to space ?


----------



## Super Falcon

our misssile tech is superior than most of the world sir

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## Stealth

*WAR shor honi koi nahe aween American nay baywakoof banaya huwa way dona noo!*  ise dar ka faida utha kar woh khoob kamaye kar raha hey dono say lol


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## LCA Tejas

This post amazes me a lot....

*Pakistan calls itself 3rd in terms of Missile technology?? Ok, let me get my facts corrected..
*
1.Does pakistan have super sonic cruise missile tech? *-No-
*2.Does pakistan have new gen surface to air missile tech? *-NO-*
3.Does pakistan have missiles which can be fired from under water? *-NO-*
4.Does pakistan have interceptor missile tech?*-NO-*
5.Does pakistan have New gen Anti Tank Missile(Fire and forget)?*-NO-*
6.Does pakistan have Air to air missiles tech?*-NO-*
7.Does pakistan have hypersonic surface-to-surface tactical missile? *-NO-*
8.Does pakistan have hypersonic cruise missile tech?*-NO-*

*And you still consider yourself as 3rd in missile technology???*


----------



## Uzair Zahir

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD ....


----------



## sab

LCA Tejas said:


> This post amazes me a lot....
> 
> *Pakistan calls itself 3rd in terms of Missile technology?? Ok, let me get my facts corrected..
> *
> 1.Does pakistan have super sonic cruise missile tech? *-No-
> *2.Does pakistan have new gen surface to air missile tech? *-NO-*
> 3.Does pakistan have missiles which can be fired from under water? *-NO-*
> 4.Does pakistan have interceptor missile tech?*-NO-*
> 5.Does pakistan have New gen Anti Tank Missile(Fire and forget)?*-NO-*
> 6.Does pakistan have Air to air missiles tech?*-NO-*
> 7.Does pakistan have hypersonic surface-to-surface tactical missile? *-NO-*
> 8.Does pakistan have hypersonic cruise missile tech?*-NO-*
> 
> *And you still consider yourself as 3rd in missile technology???[/B]*


*

I think this line is little harsh. Because most of the senior Pakistani members rubbished the claim if you see. So no need to continue this unnecessary thread. But Pakistan is doing a good job within her limitation. That is enough.*

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## LCA Tejas

sab said:


> I think this line is little harsh. Because most of the senior Pakistani members rubbished the claim if you see. So no need to continue this unnecessary thread. But Pakistan is doing a good job within her limitation. That is enough.



alright bro...


----------



## MZUBAIR

LCA Tejas said:


> This post amazes me a lot....
> 
> *Pakistan calls itself 3rd in terms of Missile technology?? Ok, let me get my facts corrected..
> *
> 1.Does pakistan have super sonic cruise missile tech? *-No-
> *


*

Having or not having Supersoin missile never means that any country is less or more capable is missiles.


Accuracy, Technology & Advancement does matter 

Even America dont have Supersonic cruise missile, so by ur rule USA is less capable in missile technology then China, Russia (Capable to produce Supersoin missile)

*


> 2.Does pakistan have new gen surface to air missile tech? *-NO-*



*Yes,* Pakistan have in the form of locally produce Anza Mk-III.
Anza Mk-IV is in under production.



> 3.Does pakistan have missiles which can be fired from under water? *-NO-*



*Yes,*
Kind, locally build torpedoes....unannounced tested in 2008/9 and fired through Augosta 90B

Agosta class submarine (Pakistan section)



> 4.Does pakistan have interceptor missile tech?*-NO-*



Having interceptor missile never means that a country is superior.
Any missile can be used as interceptor.

Though we have speciall aerial squadran to inercept missiles.




> 5.Does pakistan have New gen Anti Tank Missile(Fire and forget)?*-NO-*



*Yes * we have Bahtar Shikan....
Secondly, Fire and forget technology is not that accurate and successful. 




> 6.Does pakistan have Air to air missiles tech?*-NO-*



Yes we do have Babur missile tested in 2009 (I am not refering Babur Cruise missile)





> 7.Does pakistan have hypersonic surface-to-surface tactical missile? *-NO-*



Even USA dont have....and its said that Pak is 3rd best in missiles.



> 8.Does pakistan have hypersonic cruise missile tech?*-NO-*



Even USA dont have....and its said that Pak is 3rd best in missiles.


> *And you still consider yourself as 3rd in missile technology???*



Yes we are ...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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## sab

Muzibair if the ranks satisfy you....well it is your...

But wait for senior Pakistani members and Military Professionals finsh their urgent works and join in....this particular post I think.... by them....


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## LCA Tejas

MZUBAIR said:


> Having or not having Supersoin missile never means that any country is less or more capable is missiles.
> 
> 
> *Accuracy, Technology & Advancement does matter *
> 
> Even America dont have Supersonic cruise missile, so by ur rule USA is less capable in missile technology then China, Russia _(Capable to produce Supersoin missile)_
> 
> 
> 
> *Yes,* Pakistan have in the form of locally produce Anza Mk-III.
> Anza Mk-IV is in under production.
> 
> 
> 
> *Yes,*
> Kind, locally build torpedoes....unannounced tested in 2008/9 and fired through Augosta 90B
> 
> Agosta class submarine (Pakistan section)
> 
> 
> 
> Having interceptor missile never means that a country is superior.
> Any missile can be used as interceptor.
> 
> Though we have speciall aerial squadran to inercept missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yes * we have Bahtar Shikan....
> Secondly, Fire and forget technology is not that accurate and successful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we do have Babur missile tested in 2009 (I am not refering Babur Cruise missile)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even USA dont have....and its said that Pak is 3rd best in missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> Even USA dont have....and its said that Pak is 3rd best in missiles.
> 
> 
> Yes we are ...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



pakistan dosent have most of it, and India has all of it... pakistan is no where in the top 10......


----------



## paritosh

MZUBAIR said:


> Having or not having Supersoin missile never means that any country is less or more capable is missiles.
> 
> 
> *Accuracy, Technology & Advancement does matter *
> 
> Even America dont have Supersonic cruise missile, so by ur rule USA is less capable in missile technology then China, Russia _(Capable to produce Supersoin missile)_


well i agree that it's accuracy and a low radar-evading trajectory that matters more to a cruise missile...but the point is that making a supersonic ground-hugging missile is many many times more difficult than making a normal sub-sonic cruise missile...as the increased speed needs faster on-board processors...high prf ground-mapping radars...better control sub-systems for faster maneuverability...
so in cruise missiles...we have done more R&D...and I am sure that it should affect your _ranking_



> *Yes,* Pakistan have in the form of locally produce Anza Mk-III.
> Anza Mk-IV is in under production.


that is a MANPAD system isn't it?
compare your MANPAD system to say Akash SAM....and you'd know that it's a joke!
the akash system is based on Ramjet technology...do you have ramjet technology?



> *Yes,*
> Kind, locally build torpedoes....unannounced tested in 2008/9 and fired through Augosta 90B
> 
> Agosta class submarine (Pakistan section)


well torpedos are for underwater warfare mainly...the guy you quoted talked about underwater launched missiles like the sagarika that we have....which you don't...
and plus I failed to read about the locally made torpedos in the link that you gave me...Exocet is not a Pakistani missile...



> Having interceptor missile never means that a country is superior.
> Any missile can be used as interceptor.



not a chance!
an interceptor needs to smaller...faster and helluva lot more agile than whatever it is made to intercept...
it is very very difficult to modify an existing platform into an interceptor...you don't have any interceptors or anti-BMs...or do you?



> Though we have speciall aerial squadran to inercept missiles.


I am sure that they won't be pelting the incoming missile with stones and pebbles...what is that they use?




> *Yes * we have Bahtar Shikan....
> Secondly, Fire and forget technology is not that accurate and successful.


the missile that you are referring to is again not a Pakistani missile...it's the HJ-8 which happens to be a PRC missile under licensed production...
do you know what licensed production is...sir?
we license produce most of our aircraft and tanks which have russian...british..origins..doesn't mean that they are our products.
Even the SU-30MKI which has considerable Indian inputs is not our product..though we have Indian names for all our licensed produced weapon systems.

and secondly it's a wire-guided system...which almost every country has...after firing the missile in the general direction of the target...you have to manually send directional inputs to maneuver the missile so that it hits the target...not very "fire-and-forget" is it?
and let us not pass judgements about how "fire-and-forget"..."fire-and-forget" actually is...




> Yes we do have Babur missile tested in 2009 (I am not refering Babur Cruise missile)


???
the missile you are talking about is the same Babur cruise missile albeit launched from an aerial platform...like most cruise missile yours can be made to launch from airplanes...
not what we want to know about...
does Pakistan have it's own air-to-air missiles?
do you have WVR and BVR missiles?





> Even USA dont have....and its said that Pak is 3rd best in missiles.


only on def.pk.



> Yes we are ...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



blissful isn't it?? your planet?

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## kallol

@Developereo

I understand you are taking a theoritical path to intercept. A few points to be noted

1. Cruise missiles are almost impossible to be hit because of their maneuvering (speed and trajectory) capability, which generally the interceptor does not have. There are hardly any example of cruise missile being intercepted even though they are subsonic.

2. The interceptor generally hit at an angle which means the margin of error is 0.004 second (in this case), which by itself is impossible to achieve. With that you have onboard sensors to detect IR, radar & optical signatures.

3. As you should know these cruise missiles operate at low height which is normally very difficult to detect from far (because of the noises and attenuations). Together with the supersonic speed, it becomes more difficult to detect and react in time as the time. We need to keep in mind that the reaction time for any missile is quite a few seconds. The distance any radar can see for low height, detect, send signal, interceptor react, correct the orientation and gain the speed will limit the effectivity of any interceptor system for cruise missile. 

The problem is similar to an objective question I had in IIT entrance long back- why is the speed of a vehicle limited at night ? (The answer is the perception time of human being and the range of the headlight). 
So any interceptor's capability is restricted by the perception time of the total system (detect target to set the missile in correct path and correct speed) and distance the radar can see.

Hope I could explain.

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## Sinnerman108

kallol said:


> @Developereo
> 
> I understand you are taking a theoritical path to intercept. A few points to be noted
> 
> 1. Cruise missiles are almost impossible to be hit because of their maneuvering (speed and trajectory) capability, which generally the interceptor does not have. There are hardly any example of cruise missile being intercepted even though they are subsonic.
> 
> 2. The interceptor generally hit at an angle which means the margin of error is 0.004 second (in this case), which by itself is impossible to achieve. With that you have onboard sensors to detect IR, radar & optical signatures.
> 
> 3. As you should know these cruise missiles operate at low height which is normally very difficult to detect from far (because of the noises and attenuations). Together with the supersonic speed, it becomes more difficult to detect and react in time as the time. We need to keep in mind that the reaction time for any missile is quite a few seconds. The distance any radar can see for low height, detect, send signal, interceptor react, correct the orientation and gain the speed will limit the effectivity of any interceptor system for cruise missile.
> 
> The problem is similar to an objective question I had in IIT entrance long back- why is the speed of a vehicle limited at night ? (The answer is the perception time of human being and the range of the headlight).
> So any interceptor's capability is restricted by the perception time of the total system (detect target to set the missile in correct path and correct speed) and distance the radar can see.
> 
> Hope I could explain.



Hmmm,
you will understand this.
and I hope to explain my best.

*You need to fire a missile from point A and hit point B, how do u find point B ?*

You can use INS, GPS, or image recognition.

When the starter of the thread said the third country in the world, I suppose what he has in mind, was the third country in the world to have used the image recognition technology on cruise missiles.

I think that is a valid claim.

Satellite imagery can be acquired easily, commercial imagery is available with 30cm resolution.

The same imagery is then mapped onto a GIS system, imagery is stitched and coordinated using DGPS technique.

Thus, what I can do now is plot path marker from point A to point B, and keep an eye out for the correct path markers to know if I am on the right path.

This will also explain why the missile is called "terrain hugging", because it has to be close enough to the terrain to SEE and then process the image data. 

Now comes the part of super sonic missile, sure one can make a super sonic cruise missile ( I like to see it as a customized Mig 21).

But problem arises to use the image recognition navigation technology on a super sonic missile.

Since the speed of the missile is high, a LOT of processing power is required on board the missile. 

Assume, sub sonic missile needs to self correct at 10Hz only.
The processing that goes behind every correction cycle is of the order of 10 Mips.

Now you can extrapolate to what a super sonic system needs to do.

This problem is compounded by the design of Brahmos as such. 
If you know, this problem is exactly same why bigger better radars can not be fitted to mig-21.

At present the processing power and remote sensing technology to support super sonic flight is not available.
There are some serious blocks regarding miniaturization and power consumption. 

Who knows, the Indians might have cracked a small powerful enough processor.

But to the best of my knowledge that is far from happening.

I hope I have been able to explain my point.


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## policecontrolroom

> our misssile tech is superior than most of the world sir





yes sirrrrrrrr. somalia , burkino faso , cook islands mosambique , moldova, dominican republic also claimed the same


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## kallol

@Salman108

It is getting into my area.

1. For terrain hugging hardly any image processing is required. It requires the distance only

2. For target acquisition, unlike trajectory following, it does not need to follow any defined path strictly. It is the artificial intelligence which is imperfect but achieves the goal.

3. Again image processing is not required for obstacle avoidance also (to that extent) as detection (or change ) is enough to react. Like we blink if something (unknown) comes near our eyes. 

What I mean classical methods of motion control may not be followed but a more animalistic method may be followed for making it supersonic

4. The real time satellites images (the best ones as of today) cannot capture supersonic terrain hugging missiles and, considering the range and speed, any data will not be useful.

I will refrain from going into further details.


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## Sinnerman108

kallol said:


> @Salman108
> 
> It is getting into my area.
> 
> 1. For terrain hugging hardly any image processing is required. It requires the distance only
> 
> 2. For target acquisition, unlike trajectory following, it does not need to follow any defined path strictly. It is the artificial intelligence which is imperfect but achieves the goal.
> 
> 3. Again image processing is not required for obstacle avoidance also (to that extent) as detection (or change ) is enough to react. Like we blink if something (unknown) comes near our eyes.
> 
> What I mean classical methods of motion control may not be followed but a more animalistic method may be followed for making it supersonic
> 
> 4. The real time satellites images (the best ones as of today) cannot capture supersonic terrain hugging missiles and, considering the range and speed, any data will not be useful.
> 
> I will refrain from going into further details.



huh !
I feel like i wasted my time,

your response shows that I failed to explain all of that, my bad.


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## kallol

salman108 said:


> huh !
> I feel like i wasted my time,
> 
> your response shows that I failed to explain all of that, my bad.



Sorry Salman,

I might have missed out some points (not reading carefully). But much of the answers and possible capability checks can be found out in my answer. Though not stated directly.


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## desiman

policecontrolroom said:


> yes sirrrrrrrr. somalia , burkino faso , cook islands mosambique , moldova, dominican republic also claimed the same



OMG I when read this comment i laughed so hard, people were looking at me at work lolzzz


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## sab

Mzubair should be declared as the man of the thread with the following post-

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCA Tejas 
This post amazes me a lot....

Pakistan calls itself 3rd in terms of Missile technology?? Ok, let me get my facts corrected..

1.Does pakistan have super sonic cruise missile tech? -No-




Having or not having Supersoin missile never means that any country is less or more capable is missiles.


Accuracy, Technology & Advancement does matter 

Even America dont have Supersonic cruise missile, so by ur rule USA is less capable in missile technology then China, Russia (Capable to produce Supersoin missile)


Quote:


Quote:
2.Does pakistan have new gen surface to air missile tech? -NO- 

*Yes, Pakistan have in the form of locally produce Anza Mk-III.
Anza Mk-IV is in under production.*


Quote:
3.Does pakistan have missiles which can be fired from under water? -NO-


Yes,
Kind,* locally build torpedoes*....unannounced tested in 2008/9 and fired through Augosta 90B

Agosta class submarine (Pakistan section)


Quote:


4.Does pakistan have interceptor missile tech?-NO-


Having interceptor missile never means that a country is superior.
*Any missile can be used as interceptor.*Though we have speciall aerial squadran to inercept missiles.



Quote:
5.Does pakistan have New gen Anti Tank Missile(Fire and forget)?-NO-


Yes we have Bahtar Shikan....
Secondly, Fire and forget technology is not that accurate and successful. 



Quote:
6.Does pakistan have Air to air missiles tech?-NO-


*Yes we do have Babur missile tested in 2009 (I am not refering Babur Cruise missile)*



Quote:
7.Does pakistan have hypersonic surface-to-surface tactical missile? -NO-


Even USA dont have....and its said that Pak is 3rd best in missiles.


Quote:
8.Does pakistan have hypersonic cruise missile tech?-NO-



Even USA dont have....and its said that Pak is 3rd best in missiles.

Quote:

And you still consider yourself as 3rd in missile technology??? 

Yes we are ...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Developereo

Guys,

Please note the date of the original article (2007). Pakistan may have been ahead of India at the time (I don't know) but certainly India has made advances in the meantime.



kallol said:


> I understand you are taking a theoritical path to intercept. A few points to be noted



I didn't say it was easy. I was basing my claim on the Western press which was less than impressed by the Brahmos manoeuverability and its high IR signature.

I agree it will be a challenge, especially the hypersonic version, but the military has the money to buy the best minds in the business.


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## sab

Sir, any information on Pakistan's initiative in air defence system.I think Gun based systems or even Anza-III which can be lethal to enemy chopper or aircrafts within reach but may not be sufficient against Modern fighters or enemy missiles......

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## ARSENAL6

desiman said:


> OMG I when read this comment i laughed so hard, people were looking at me at work lolzzz



Was it because you found out how racist and islamaphopic canada can be when blaming its own problems on Muslim ?


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## Xtremeownage

LCA Tejas said:


> pakistan dosent have most of it, and India has all of it... pakistan is no where in the top 10......



Pakistan does have it, and India's nuclear and missile technology is far behind that of Pakistan's!

Pakistan is definately in the top 10, and 3rd place seems very realistic.

India on the other hand is not in the top 10, and it's WMD's are lagging in comparison to Pakistan and the world.


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## LCA Tejas

Xtremeownage said:


> Pakistan does have it, and India's nuclear and missile technology is far behind that of Pakistan's!
> 
> Pakistan is definately in the top 10, and 3rd place seems very realistic.
> 
> India on the other hand is not in the top 10, and it's WMD's are lagging in comparison to Pakistan and the world.
> 
> YouTube - Pakistan nukes outstrip India's
> 
> YouTube - Pakistan's Nuclear Power vs Indian Nuclear Power



tell me what are the types of missiles pakistan has??? And I will tell you that, India has double the kind of missiles pakistan has and with more power,range and precession.... I have already said what are the missiles pakistan dosent have, and India has all those, go read my post 1-2 pages back.... and disprove if you can


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## Sinnerman108

LCA Tejas said:


> tell me what are the types of missiles pakistan has??? And I will tell you that, India has double the kind of missiles pakistan has and with more power,range and precession.... I have already said what are the missiles pakistan dosent have, and India has all those, go read my post 1-2 pages back.... and disprove if you can



Answer: Raad the cruise missile.


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## LCA Tejas

salman108 said:


> Answer: Raad the cruise missile.



*Question Repeated for you again*​

1.Does pakistan have super sonic cruise missile tech? *-No-*
2.Does pakistan have new gen surface to air missile tech? *-NO-* 
3.Does pakistan have missiles which can be fired from under water? *-NO-*
4.Does pakistan have interceptor missile tech?*-NO-*
5.Does pakistan have New gen Anti Tank Missile(Fire and forget)?*-NO-*
6.Does pakistan have Air to air missiles tech?*-NO-*
7.Does pakistan have hypersonic surface-to-surface tactical missile? *-NO-*
8.Does pakistan have hypersonic cruise missile tech?*-NO-*


*INDIA HAS THESE MISSILES, NAMELY *​*1.BRAHMOS
2.AKASH
3.SAGARIKA
4.AAD AND PAD
5.NAG ANTI TANK MISSILE
6.ASTRA BVRM
7.SHOURYA
8.BRAHMOS BLOCK 2 UNDER WAY​*


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## zagahaga

and how many of these work?? or operational? i wounder


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## mughaljee

^ all of them are operational.


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## WhiteKnight1

I'm curious, can Pakistan's nukes reach all of India? And can India nukes reach all of Pakistan?

How far can Pakistan nukes go and how far can India nukes go?


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## Bingo!

StealthQL-707PK said:


> *Please understand little about indian, they don't want to accept reality Pakistan making alot of surprise in the past years. Still Indian like LCA Tejas's question theory -wasting times. *
> 
> *You probably say next question-
> 
> Does Pakistan have own tanks? NO
> Does Pakistan have own AirForces? NO
> Does Pakistan have own Babur Missiles? NO
> Does Pakistan have ever test atomic bombs in 1998? NO
> Does Pakistan teach India a big lesson? NO*
> 
> *All India did based on his baseless theory was awesome, be happy!*
> 
> YouTube - india admitting that they are no where near to pakistan missile technology
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrHiQy93I9U



What LCA stated was true or prove other wise

what you are saying is wrong..


pakistan have tanks, have own airforces, have own babur missiles,tested atombomb,

teach India a lesson???? yaa maybe.. India might have been to pakistan classes to learn lessons


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## LCA Tejas

Bingo! said:


> What LCA stated was true or prove other wise
> 
> what you are saying is wrong..
> 
> 
> pakistan have tanks, have own airforces, have own babur missiles,tested atombomb,
> 
> teach India a lesson???? yaa maybe.. India might have been to pakistan classes to learn lessons



Leave it buddy, that guys is too frustrated..... He can never prove my question, so just leave him alone... hitting an enemy after hes Injured is Cowardness, let him gather Some supercool points and I will debate him, till then he is injured, I dont wanna keep asking the same question when he cannot prove it..

*All I asked was this*

1.Does pakistan have super sonic cruise missile tech? *-No-*
2.Does pakistan have new gen surface to air missile tech? *-NO-* 
3.Does pakistan have missiles which can be fired from under water? *-NO-*
4.Does pakistan have interceptor missile tech?*-NO-*
5.Does pakistan have New gen Anti Tank Missile(Fire and forget)?*-NO-*
6.Does pakistan have Air to air missiles tech?*-NO-*
7.Does pakistan have hypersonic surface-to-surface tactical missile? *-NO-*
8.Does pakistan have hypersonic cruise missile tech?*-NO-*


*INDIA HAS THESE MISSILES, NAMELY *​*1.BRAHMOS
2.AKASH
3.SAGARIKA
4.AAD AND PAD
5.NAG ANTI TANK MISSILE
6.ASTRA BVRM
7.SHOURYA
8.BRAHMOS BLOCK 2 UNDER WAY​*

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## dekho

> @whiteknight1
> I'm curious, can Pakistan's nukes reach all of India? And can India nukes reach all of Pakistan?
> 
> How far can Pakistan nukes go and how far can India nukes go?


Go ahead and blow the stuff out of each other, but please spare Taj Mahal I beg you.
I am planning a visit in a year or so....be kind and spare agra or delay its destruction by two years please.


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## monitor

WhiteKnight1 said:


> I'm curious, can Pakistan's nukes reach all of India? And can India nukes reach all of Pakistan?
> 
> How far can Pakistan nukes go and how far can India nukes go?



Pakistan's missile cover most of the India's important city . where india can nuke all of pakistan .


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## AHMED85

very nice 
can we not find economics missile for Pakistan to developing....

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## Chanakyaa

With this Hilarius effort i dont understand , why he missed the no. 1 spot instead of using no. 3.

Good Joke indeed.

Perhaps Sir. Shchinese would not shy and be reluctant to shower his blessings here ; which he often does where he shouldnt.


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## pakistanifalcon

Pakistan My Love


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## Maj. Gel. Tariq khan

1- Yet Indian too dont have supersonic cruse missile tecnology. Pakistan is making sub-sonic cruse missiles.
2 & 4- Yes, Anza missile system. Which used in kargil to bring down indians Migg aircraft. It is capible to take down any type Drones and Cruse missiles.
3- Yes, It is Babur nuclear cruse missile. Which can be fire from submariens.
5- Baktar shikan, capible to distory all current tank with amourd sheilds.
6- Currently, Air-to-Air missiles. H-4 MUPSOW & H-2 MUPSOW.
7- Currently not. But sub-sonic
8- Currently not.
All above weapons are purely made in Islamic republic of Pakistan.
BRAHMOS made by Russian assit. but tested failed. NAG and SHOURYA is under testing not active. BRAHMOS block 2 still under development phase.


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## aks

Maj. Gel. Tariq khan said:


> 1- Yet Indian too dont have supersonic cruse missile tecnology. Pakistan is making sub-sonic cruse missiles.
> 2 & 4- Yes, Anza missile system. Which used in kargil to bring down indians Migg aircraft. It is capible to take down any type Drones and Cruse missiles.
> 3- Yes, It is Babur nuclear cruse missile. Which can be fire from submariens.
> 5- Baktar shikan, capible to distory all current tank with amourd sheilds.
> 6- Currently, Air-to-Air missiles. H-4 MUPSOW & H-2 MUPSOW.
> 7- Currently not. But sub-sonic
> 8- Currently not.
> All above weapons are purely made in Islamic republic of Pakistan.
> BRAHMOS made by Russian assit. but tested failed. NAG and SHOURYA is under testing not active. BRAHMOS block 2 still under development phase.




yeah well said they cant make missiles themselves

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## mughaljee

aks said:


> yeah well said they cant make missiles themselves



Missile Banana koee hum say seekhay
or
Batain banana indian say


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## P4Pakistan

*INDIA HAS THESE MISSILES, NAMELY *​*1.BRAHMOS
2.AKASH
3.SAGARIKA
4.AAD AND PAD
5.NAG ANTI TANK MISSILE
6.ASTRA BVRM
7.SHOURYA
8.BRAHMOS BLOCK 2 UNDER WAY​*[/QUOTE]

 how many of these toys are operational !!!
plese we r not talking here about ur future programme(bramos 2) ...but current operational missiles!!!

Pakistan have lot of missiles under devellopement too (babour cruise,2,tipu sultan,ghauri 3,shaheen 3, taimur....)


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## Durrak

hmm


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## RollingStones

This is my first post and wanted to be objective. Lets look at what anyone needs to make anything: money, talent and time. While Pakistan may have had talent (though limited) and time (perhaps a lot), it just does not have the money to create a program funded through R&D from scratch and then make hundreds of products from it. My firm conviction is that Pakistan has a limited arsenal and has limited production capabilities. The tests are mainly from already proven batches of missiles that were transferred from other countries and/or from limited remakes of the original transferred technology. If I were the Indian defense planner, my assumption would be definitely that Pakistan has a limited stockpile of missiles and work on technologies such as EMP to neutralize most of the command and control functions. Satellite imagery can be used to determine factory sizes and by extension sizes of production lines. If missiles are assembled at different places, movements of war heads and components can be tracked via satellites to establish the scale of production. India has the satellite technology. If they havent used this to track Pakistan's missile production rate, then India deserves to lose missile wars against Pakistan. But right now, if I were in charge of Indian defense machine, I would immediately gauge Pakistan's missile production rate.


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## hardtarget

List of missiles of Pakistan
Surface-to-surface missiles
Battlefield range ballistic missiles (BRBM)
Abdali-I
Hatf-I/IA
Short range ballistic missiles (SRBM)
Ghaznavi
Medium range ballistic missiles (MRBM)
Ghauri I
Shaheen I
Ghauri II
Intermediate range ballistic missiles (IRBM)
Shaheen II
Ghauri-III *
Shaheen-III *
Cruise missiles
Babur (Hatf VII) - ground launched cruise missile (submarine launched version under development)
Anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM)
Baktar-Shikan
[edit] Air-to-surface missiles
H-4 (rocket-boosted glide bomb)
Ra'ad (Hatf VIII) - air launched cruise missile
[edit] Surface-to-air missiles
Anza Mk.1, Mk.2, Mk.3

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## Babur Han

hardtarget said:


> List of missiles of Pakistan
> Surface-to-surface missiles
> Battlefield range ballistic missiles (BRBM)
> Abdali-I
> Hatf-I/IA
> Short range ballistic missiles (SRBM)
> Ghaznavi
> Medium range ballistic missiles (MRBM)
> Ghauri I
> Shaheen I
> Ghauri II
> Intermediate range ballistic missiles (IRBM)
> Shaheen II
> Ghauri-III *
> Shaheen-III *
> Cruise missiles
> *Babur (Hatf VII) - ground launched cruise missile (submarine launched version under development)*Anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM)
> Baktar-Shikan
> [edit] Air-to-surface missiles
> H-4 (rocket-boosted glide bomb)
> *Ra'ad (Hatf VIII) - air launched cruise missile*
> [edit] Surface-to-air missiles
> Anza Mk.1, Mk.2, Mk.3



I think Babur and Raad are developed with chinese asistence and probably use chinese Components and Subsystems. At this point it would interest me if Pakistan has some Steps done the Field of Turbojet Engine Development.


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## khurasaan1

mughaljee said:


> Missile Banana koee hum say seekhay
> or
> Batain banana indian say



Bilkul Saheeh kaha apney..........


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## khurasaan1

RIZWAN_AIOU said:


> very nice
> can we not find economics missile for Pakistan to developing....



Afghan Pplz are pak_economics Missile bro..see US giving money to Pak for that.. for helping in the War...LOL...


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## Jungibaaz

Does anyone know when Pakistan will have it's first ICBM?


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## Nahraf

khurasaan1 said:


> Bilkul Saheeh kaha apney..........



Tu phir koey satellite bhi to khila main bhejo. 
Pakistan should be send its own satellites into orbit from Pakistan.

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## hardtarget

Nahraf said:


> Tu phir koey satellite bhi to khila main bhejo.
> Pakistan should be send its own satellites into orbit from Pakistan.



INSHALLAH it will be soon


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## theboss

just WTF is:

4.AAD AND PAD??

We should not be too proud of competiting India with weapons. Welfare of the nation should also be considered along with strong economy, better forigen releations, bilaterial ties and more importantly sepreation of millitary conflict with india with those of civilians ones. Bilateral and business will bring a lot of benefit to common man and may help promote peace and reduce mistrust.


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## theboss

hardtarget said:


> INSHALLAH it will be soon



Pakistan did have a SLV project which has been running on and off due to levraging economies of scale. Launching satellite from China is much cheap as Pakistan is not planning to launch any mega quantity of sattelite in near future and chinese assistance is available reliably and easily. So why waste the money?


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## Hafizzz

Owais said:


> its true that our missile technology is getting advance in muh faster pace with respect to our neighbours however we are still behind US,UK and Russia.



Glad to hear that we are more advance in missile technology that our neighbour.


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